Third Series, Vol. XLI, No. 37 Monday, April 12, 1965 Chaitra 22, 1887 (Saka) LOK SABHA DEBATES

(HURD SERIES)

Volume X LI, 196511887 ( Saka )

[A p r il2 to 19 , i 96s lC h a itra 12 to 29 ,18 8 7 {Saka)]

Eleventh Session, 1965/1886-87 (Saka)

(Vol. X L I contains Nos. 3 1 to 40)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS No. 37—Monday, April 12, 19651 Chat tra 22, 1887 (Saka) 5 Columns Obituary Reference . 8857— 64

Oral Answers to Questions— •Starred Questions Nos. 831 to 838. . . 8864— 95 Short Notice Question No. 9 . . . 8896— 8902 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 839 to 854 .... 8902— 14 Unstarred Questions Nos. 2163 to 2210, 2212 and 2213 • 8914—46 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance— Firing and intrusion into Indian territoiy by East Pakistan Rifles in Cachar district of Assam. . . . 8946—58 Leave o f Absence from Sittings of the House . 8958— 64, 8965*66 Papers laid on the T a b l e ...... 8965 Committee on Private Members’ Bills and Resolutions— Sixty-third R e p o r t ...... 8966

Ihiblic Accounts Committee— Thirty-fourth Report . . 8966-67 Demands for Grants . . . • 8967—9094 Ministry of Rehabilitation . . . 8967—9041 Shri D. C. Sharma . . . 8967—73 Shri Dinen Bhattacharya. . . 8973— 79 Shri P. R. Chakraverti . . . 8979— 83 Shri Rameshwaranand . . . 8983— 87 Shri Mohan Swarup . . . 8987—93 Shri Kishen Pattnayak . . . 8993—96 Shri N. C. Chatterjee . . . 8996—9001 Shri Balmiki . . . . . 9001—07 Shri Tyagi . . . . 9007— 9033 Ministry of Labour and Employment . 9042—94 Shri Mohammad Elias . . 9043 —53 ’ Shri Buta Singh . . . 9053—66 Shri A. P. Sharma .... 9073— 81 Shrimati Renuka Barkataki . . 9081— 87 Shri M. Malaichami . . . 9087— 90 Shri K . N. Pandey . . . 9090— 94 Statement re : situation on Kutch-Sind Border . . . 9094— 14 Shri Nanda ...... 9095— 9104

♦The sign 4- marked above the name of a Member indicates that the Question was actually asked on the floor of the House by that Member. LOK SABHA DEBATES

88 57 885g

LO K SABHA ing any fear any suspicion, that the wid was so near. Monday, April 12, 1965 /Chaitra 22, 1887 (Saka) When I went to pay my last res­ pects to him yesterday, as he was kept there lying in State, it did not The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the appear as if he had already died— Clock. so serene, so complete in himself as [M r. Speaker in the Chair] he was. OBITUARY REFERENCE I have had the honour of knowing (Dr. P. S. Deshmukh) him for the past 40 years. Both my­ self and my wife used to meet him The Prime Minister and Minister at Oxford when he was my junior of Atomic Energy (Shri Lai Bahadur and was doing his research for Shastri): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are Ph. D. After that, after he came over very much grieved over the sad here, during those years when it was demise of Dr. Punjabrao S. Desh­ not so fashionable or popular to func­ mukh. tion in the name of the great Sivaji, he had the foresight and courage to He was one of the oldest Members establish a number of educational of this House, and he served as institutions.^ naming them after the Minister of Agriculture for ten years. great Sivaji, and work for the edu­ He was a great supporter of kisans, cational uplift of the class of people and had worked a good deal amongst who are mostly kisans, who are them. He took keen and active inte­ known as Marathas in his area, and rest in taking various measures as who at that time were very back­ the Minister in charge of Agriculture ward in education. for the amelioration of their con­ dition and for their uplift, progress After that he took up the cause of and advance. the kisans as such over the whole of India, and I had the privilege of He was a prominent figure in pub­ having him as one of my colleagues lic life, and he had many social acti­ and We worked for several years to­ vities to his credit. Especially he took gether. When he joined the Govern­ interest in education and built up a ment, I was not quite sure whether number of institutions, schools and he would be able to carry on that colleges which are running very well work, but he had that strain of con­ indeed. structive ability in him, and so, though he was a Minister, he was We deeply mourn his loss, and I able to develop a kisan organisation would like you kindly to convey to which slowly has been growing to be Mrs. Deshmukh and the members of an independent non-official organisa­ the bereaved family our heartfelt tion. He provided it with large condolences. funds through constructive efforts Shri Ranga (Chittoor): It was a that he had himself made, including shock to me and I am sure to most the organisation of the unique— and of us, to all of us, to learn that Dr. I think the first of its kind in India— Punjabrao S. Deshmukh passed away World Agricultural Fair. He made so suddenly, without any of us hav- it a success. 219 (Ai) LSD—1. 8859 Obituary Reference APRIL 12, 1965 Obituary Reference 8860’

He developed also the backward His death means a void in this classes organisation lor the whole of House which, I fear, will be difficult this country, took advantage of the to fill. I knew him since 1952 when provision made in the Constitution I came here as a member of the first for their protection, roused those Parliament. He always impressed us people, helped them everywhere to as a person who was capable and form their own organisations and considerate at the same time «uid used his influence with the Govern­ who had, as a matter of fact, a grip ment in order to get grants for a over whatever problem he was deal­ large number of hostels which he ing with and who had a human way had started under his leadership and of approach to different problems. through his initiative all over the He had a very distinguished academic country. Therefore, the ignorant career but that did not prevent mrasses and the backward classes in him from throwing in his lot with this country mourn his death. In the common man in this country and addition to that, he made himself he tried to serve them by means, agreeable to the State Governments particularly, of two instruments: as well as the Union Government to education and social reform. Very such an extent that he was able to few people have devoted themselves persuade the governmental autho­ like Dr. Punjabrao Deshmukh did to rities as well as the kisans to the cause of the uplift of the so- develop agricultural production in a called backward classes of our people. unique manner. Many other Minis­ The Sivaji Education Society, o f ters did not succeed, but he did which he was the life and soul, would where so many had failed. remain a very lasting memorial to his work. So, Sir, I was not quite happy when he was left out of the Ministry We are all very s°rry that he is last time. Although I belong to the no longer with us and I am sure you Opposition, I would like to see'such would be conveying to his family the good and competent and construc­ condolence of all sections of the tive-minded people becoming Minis­ House and the sense of irreparable ters in the Government, here as well loss at his passing away. as in the States, so that they would be able to emulate the example of Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (Ken- Dr. Deshmukh and serve the people drapara): On my behalf and on behalf in various directions. I hope you of my group I associate myself with will convey to his wife, who is her­ the feeling expressed at the sad self in her own right a public worker, demise of Dr. Punjabrao Deshmukh. and his family our condolences. On Friday when he was here attend­ ing the House he was so active and Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta agile that one could hardly believe Central): Mr. Speaker, I wish to oven now that he is already dead. associate myself and my group with the expression of condolence which His association with Parliament has fallen from the lips of the Prime was long, and his parliamentary Minister and Prof. Ranga at the sad methods of work were unparallelled. death of Dr. P. S. Deshmukh. It He was a great champion of kisans, must have been a shock to most of whether he was in the Ministry or us to learn very suddenly that Dr. outside. Even after leaving the office, Punjabrao Deshmukh was no more. he was organising the kisans and he This kind of thing reminds us how was, so to say, the main exponent of in the midst of life we are in death, the rights of the kisans, especially the and it also makes us sensible perhaps right of kisans over the land. I think of the triviality of so many other no other kisan movement has done things that we do from time to time. so much as he had done for the kisans. gS6 l Obituary Reference CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Obituary Reference 8862

He was a veteran nationalist and we ^mTtsr, ift ^ % have lost a great nationalist by the WFTRT ^ l^wr ^Ft ^ T «TW death of such a person. m r | 1 I associate myself again with the feelings expressed here and request t VRcfhr of^hr % enrr you to convey the feelings of the ? m t^ ftr ^ irf^r srsr^fw^rPwr House to the bereaved family. SR^TT f^Pcft TOTT f f^r qfr^R ^ r Jif y ^ r 3To XT? Zvww ^rr fasR ^ z ft % f?F ^T% ?rw ?RT fcmfrl apt ^fft ^r ?rf«rwt | i

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T+1 foreign education and came out to % htlH ^FcRT ^ I ^5 ^TT% India, and they had 'before them bright prospects if they had followed wm * fr w r t i %m their own profession, pursued it or ^TT fT«^ ti^N, f^iTR had joined any of the high posts 8863 Obituary Reference APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers that could have been offered to them, Sabha during the years 1946 to 1962.* but it must be said to their credit He was Minister of Agriculture during that they chose the difficult path of the years 1952 to 1957 and again from serving their countrymen rather than 1958 to 1962. He was Minister of Co­ serving themselves By occupying operation during the years 1957 t• some lucrative posts elsewhere. It 1958. was a great example they had set Several aspects of his activities have before the young Mahrathas and the already been referred to by the Lead­ young members of the backward ers of the various Groups and . the classes. Leader of the House himself. It was a sudden shock that we had to suffer, Secondly, the cause of education because we do recollect that only oh had been espoused by many persons Friday last we saw him sitting there, before him also, but Dr. Punjabrao quiet and calm, and trying to partici­ Deshmukh took it up on a scale pate in the proceedings. which was really a source of admira­ tion for us all. In fact, it was due to Dr. Deshmukh had many qualities his work—it may be said with great of head and heart. Indeed the loss confidence—-that the doors of higher would be great. Particularly the con­ education were opened in the rural tribution he made to the amelioration areas so that the poor boys could see of the lot of agriculturists and actual that they had also the opportunity of farmers would be remembered for * prosecuting higher studies and occu­ very long time. It was a surprise to pying places of equality along with me indeed when I learnt how many the members of other communities. educational institutions he had bee® That was the kind of great construc­ managing, and were in his charge. tive work which he had done. There would be thousands of stu­ dents, and other members of his fa­ mily, who would be mourning the loss He died in harness and in the midst of this friend. Indeed, we have lost of so many activities which he had a great patriot, a nationalist, good started. I have said in another place parliamentarian and a successful min­ that they remain, unfinished. He had ister that he had been. given them a push, and I expect that his great example will be a source We deeply mourn the loss of this of inspiration to others who are left friend and I am sure the House will behind to carry on those activities in join me in conveying our condolen­ the future. ces, as have been expressed by seve­ ral Members, to the bereaved family. I wish to associate myself with the The House may stand in silence lor sentiments expressed by other hon. a short while to express its sorrow. Members and I request you to con­ vey the profound feelings of sorrow The Members then stood in silence of Members of all sections of the for a short while. • House to Mrs. Punjabrao Deshmukh. Mr. Speaker: I fully associate my­ self with the sentiments expressed ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS by the Leader of the House and other Members on the passing away of Dr. srrof vis nVii* Punjabrao S. Deshmukh. + Dr. Deshmukh was a sitting Mem­ f «ft *0 *no : ber of this House from the Amaravati constituency of Maharashtra. He was ^ fas : also a Member of the Constituent As­ g31 j TTo sembly of India, Provisional Parlia­ ment and the First and Second Lok ^ * 0 : 8865 ° r

Ifa ir e r *ft y n ffr * $ ?fk t srfr forfo if ^TT if ST^St *n ff * ff (w ) ^ | fa stuff eft ^pft ^ t Hti^d ^t * t* r , *r w j | ; •RTT *ft, * f t (^) ft, rft wr ^nrw f^^TT '5TT 'FRkTT qT ? t ; The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): We had to start the (*r) sm <9i<7ft *?>t Ciadet College on an expanded basis, f *nr# f^r if *rr% ^ t and as the OTS was being closed down, with whatever accommodation I; was available there, the Army Head­ quarters recommended that we start ( ) w t ^r%^r *iV n the college there. % 'R % *TT% % ‘AC sft tfo HTo 5Bfvmt^T 5TT^T f f I ; sffa Ih w ^ i ^ i ^ f T

(^) srfe ft, T increased to. At the same time, the Officers Training School, at Poona ft I f^TTT ftw fwf^T^t which had sufficient accommodation % WW 37cf ^ f t t 1 was being closed and so the Army Cadet College was shifted to Poona ! i « f t IRIMT pT f a f .* and accommodated in the buildings held by the O.T.S., obviating the need t feHT pTT | >3ft for building fresh accommodation at ^i^fr | f | 'dH't.i w w fW Nowgong. Pti'MT ? (c) The Ministry of Home Affairs have been wanting to establish a «ft w TO training centre at Nowgong and it is ^ fa ?ft proposed to place the vacant build­ '»ft fqfirs^ ^TTf f ing of the school at their disposal. «FRT % f^TTT «FT (d) Yes, Sir. ^<15T | ?ftT W % 5F*Vfe[ (e) They were informed of the reasons for the decision as given ^ i 1 above. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: In the absence of any other such good insti­ no HTo : W ! far tution, may I know whether the Government is thinking of starting 20 srfa 2 1 grrfar ^rr if any sainik school there because that } vtWst % *r^.rwi, would cover the entire region? 8867 Oral Answers APRIL'12, 1965 Oral Answers 8868

Shri Y. B. Chavan: Really speak­ Shri A. M. Thomas: The total finan­ ing, in Madhya Pradesh there is cial involvement has yet to be worked already one sainik school. It has not out. In fact, the cost of one imported yet reached the maximum number diesel engine would be about Rs. 28 ttiat a sainik school requires. There- fcikhs. So the financial involvement fctre, there is no question of starting would be considerable. another sainik school there. Shri P. R. Chakraverti: May I know when this project is likely to Marine Diesel Engine Plant be brought into operation? + Shri A. M. Thomas: A preliminary Shri P. R. Chakraverti: project report has been drawn up. Shri Subodh Hansda: It has been considered by the Pro­ j Shri S. C. Samanta: duction Committee of Secretaries. Shri D. J. Naik: That Committee appointed another | Shri Pottekkatt: ad hoc committee. That has also ^ Shri A. V. Raghavan: gone into this question. The general Will the Minister of Defence be view that has been held is that t!he pleased to state: project should be proceeded with. But it has yet to be decided whether it (a) whether there is any proposal should be within the Department of to set up a Marine Diesel Engine Defence Production or in the Depart­ Plant in collaboration with a West ment of Heavy Engineering. Accord­ German machine-building concern; ing to the scheme that has been work­ ed out by the Garden Reach Work­ (b) if so, its location; shop which is under the department (c) whether the terms and condi­ of Defence Production, it would be tions of collaboration have been possible for that factory as well as finalised; and other factories within the Depart­ ment of Defence Production to manu­ (d) if so, the salient~ieatures there­ facture about 45 per cent of the parts. of? £ All these questions have to be consi­ dered. The Minister of Defence Produc­ tion in the Ministry of Defence (Shri A. ML Thomas): (a) and (b). Y«s, Sir; Shri A. V. Raghavan: In deciding no decision has so far been taken re­ the location for this factory, may I garding the location. know whether the Government will consider the question of locating it (c) and (d). The terms and condi­ in Kerala where the Defence Minis­ tions providing technical collabora­ try has not so far set up a single tion were finalised by an Agreement ordnance factory? signed on 24th Oct. 1962 between M|s. MAN, West Germany and Ministry of Shri A. M. Thomas: Two sites Defence. Its 9alient features are:— which are now being considered are Vizag and Cochin. As hon. Mem­ (i) Manufacture of a variety of bers are awa*e, there is already a engines such as KZ, RV, WK, shipyard in Vizag and in Cochin it W , GV, GZ, etc. has yet to come into existence. (ii) Exclusive rights to manufac­ Shri Vasudevan Nair: May I know ture two-stroke engines and what is the process that the Govern­ non-exclusive rights to manu­ ment will adopt in order to finally facture four-stroke engines. decide the location of this factory? Shri P. R. Chakraverti: May I know Shri A. M. Thomas: The user what will be the total financial in­ aspect has to be taken prominently volvement in this matter? into consideration. That is why I .8869 ° ral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Oral Answers 8870

said that in Vizag there is already a Will the Minister of External Affairs shipyard. In. fact, to run a marine be pleased to state: .diesel unit of the type we want on (a) whether the British and Ameri­ economic lines there should be at can Survey teams are working in the least eight diesel engines to be manu­ Indian ocean looking for. an island factured. We are in need of about for setting up high grade listening 6 in Vizag. Wlhen the Cochin Ship­ devices and also for other purposes, yard comes up, of course, the demand and would increase. Therefore, the user aspect would be the main considera­ (b) whether the Government of tion. India have been informed by the Governments of U.K. and U.S.A- in this regard? ^ T T J fa V* sflW t *TT TO The Minister of State in the Min­ istry of External Affairs (Shrimatl gppft fwft fiPFT Lakshmi Menon): (a) The U.K. and ^TT^TT I the U.S. Governments have been Shri A. M. Thomas: In fact, the jointly considering the establishment of a Radio-Communications Relay contribution of Messrs. MAN would be mainly technical collaboration and Centre in the Indian Ocean area and a survey was being conducted. Gov­ assistance. ernment have no information about Shri Warior: May I know whether the progress of this scheme. :any commission has been set up by (b) No, Sir. the Government to fix up the loca­ tion from a technical point of view? ksh W T T rT f^ : t^TFRT^T^fT Shri A. M. Thomas: As I already said, this was considered by the Pro­ *ft *rr *rr fa duction Committee of Secretaries and also by the ad hoc committee set up ^ t I Toy that committee. The location has Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: No, Sir. not yet been decided upon. Shri Sham Lai Saraf: May I know ift WTT^T ^ whether thought has been given to the question of setting up a diversi­ fied dieselisation plant when such fojT m fHT % foreign collaboration is available; if -so why only this question of marine d4>*nftnrer % ^ diesel engine plant is being conside­ red? Shri A. M. Thomas: The idea is to Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: This is have a plant not only for manufac­ a joint survey by U.K. and U.S.A. turing marine diesel engines but in­ and we are not in the picture at all. dustrial diesel engines also. But the We have not been consulted and we present scheme is to manufacture have not been given any information. marine diesel engines mainly of the Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Is it a KZ type which are required for ships. fact that the Government of Indonesia Other ancillary engines have tc be has protested to UK and USA Gov­ manufactured such as GV ana also ernments against the launching of RV engines. such a schem e on the ground that it British and American Survey Teams is not the Indian Ocean but the Indo­ nesian Ocean, according to them, and + if so, what is the G overnm ent’s re­ r Shri Yashpal Singh: action thereto? *835. ^ §hrj Bhagwat Jha Azad: 871 Oral Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers

Shrimati La kshmi Menon: We do Telephone tapping not know anything about the protest + by the Indonesian Government. f Shri Hukam Chand Shri Indrajit Gupta: Even though | Kachhavaiya: we may not have been consulted in *834. ^ Dr. L. M. Singhvi: this matter, why is it that our Gov­ I Shri Bade: ernment has not bothered to make any enquiries, at least to satisfy our­ Will the Minister of " Communica­ selves, whether this scheme has got tions be pleased to state: anything to do with any sort of mili­ tary strategic significance? (a) whether it is a fact that tele­ phone tapping is a common detective Shrimati Lakshmi Menem: As I and investigative process employed have stated in my original answer, by or on behalf of Government in our the purpose is to establish a radio­ country; and communications relay centre for which a survey is being conducted. Nothing has been finalized yet. (b) if so, the procedure authorizing such tapping? Shri Indrajit Gupta: My question was whether they tried to get any The Deputy Minister in the Depart­ information; not whether the other ment of Communications (Shit Governments have told us anything Bhagavati): (a) and (b). No, Sir. about it. Telephone tapping is not a common Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: The only detective and investigative process employed by or on behalf of the Gov­ information that we have is that the ernment in our country. P. & T. De­ survey is being conducted. We have partment on their own do not tap no more information. telephones. However, under Section 5 of the Indian Telegraph Act, 1885 «ft fa * : t STFRT ^TfrTT Central Government or State Gov­ ^ fa if 3ft if f snfan f i 8873 Oral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Oral Answers

tit tot i ^ ?n?r TO^fe m 5TRfhT Wf^TX ^T ^Tf3fa%? ft | ?££ =Ft ^rfy^TR ^snft # ^ ^ r T TOT «TT efr ^ft f e n f*n | f% *nrc ^ tt ^ ^ VR 5r t r f w r g?ft, ?fk 4SMi fa fa*ft <3*K ^?t ^T ^ tf Thftf^TvT YTRlft ?Tff | I qnft- +

Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: You Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Inter* bring it forward, we will change it. ruption.

Shri S. M. Banerjee: From the Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: Inter­ ; statement of the hon. Minister it ap­ ruption; intervention also. It may be pears that he is simply a post box due to defect in the machine. If any and is not concerned with tapping. I specific...... would like to know whether during the 1960 strike and even during the Shri Bade: Sir, I want to raise a recent arrests of Left Communist point of order. There is contradiction leaders, there were instructions issued in the reply of the hon. Minister. by the Home Ministry to the P & T Once he said that he received the Minister that telephones of certain list from the Home Minister of cer­ Members of Parliament should be tap- tain persons whose telephones should

Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: I do not Mr. Speaker: I have said it so many know what happened in I960; but, it times before that there is no point may be quite true. Whenever the of order involved if there is some Home Minister of the Central Gov­ discrepancy in the reply. Only the ernm ent or the State Minister sends other day I was informed that the instructions that certain persons’ tele­ Speaker of the House of Commons phones should be tapped, we have no asked one Member that this was the other go; we must allow that. second time that he had raised a point of order which was not a point of Shri S. M. Banerjee: I would like order and that he should be on his your protection, Sir. Who are those guard. persons, who are the Members of Parliament whose telephones are tap­ Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: Is it ped? I would like to know that. that the Central Government or the State Government sends a list for Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: The list tapping telephones of particular per­ should be lirid on the Table. sons through the iMinister or is it that they send it directly to the Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: So far Department of Telephones concerned— as my knowledge is concerned, I do I do not know how it is done—and not think we had received any ins­ the Minister said that in an emer­ tructions like that. gency he receives the list and, in that Shri Bade: On a point of order, case, would he kindly put it on the Table of the House? Sir. Mr. Speaker: Shrimati Renu Chak­ Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: So far ravartty. as the Central Government or the Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: In State Governments are concerned, I view of the tact that we all know said that they need not send it to the that our telephones are tapped, would Minister. They can send it to the the hon. Minister at le a s t assure us head of the Department. But the list that the gentleman who listens m, is absolutely secret. We cannot place will not disturb us at least during the it on the Table of the House even if conversation? we receive it. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: I still maintain—I cannot contradxct what Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Secret documents have recently been placed the hon. lady Member s a y s — that the on the Table of the House. intervention sometimes is due t o .... ■$877 Oral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Oral Answers 8878

Shri D. C. Sharma: Is it not a fact The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ that the telephones of Members irres­ try of Information and Broadcasting pective of their party affiliations are (Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman): (a) tapped if they happen to be interested No, Sir. in mass movements concerning the (b) and (c). The various media workers, farmers, teachers and others? units of the Ministry of Infor­ An hon. Member: Also professors. mation and Broadcasting have taken suitable action to inform the public Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: This of the correct position in this regard. lapping is not restricted to any party or group. (d) The fact that Hindi was to be adopted as the official language of : ST*ft the Union from 26th January, 1965 was adequately covered in All India sfr % ^frrqT fa Radio’s broadcasts from time to time. % STtfflT fa*ft t The Home Minister’s special talk on the Republic Day explaining the sig­ cfr ir nificance of this step was broadcast I 1 t ^FPTT ^T^TT jf fa % and relayed by all Stations of All sft^ f ^ ?rrr India Radio. Language versions of the talk were also put out by Stations cr«r % tt?t f a ^ in different regions, particularly those ^fT m r ? ?ffr w in non-Hindi areas. fafft % fao; *T«rr rfr # Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know if t ? ' the All India Radio, due to its inherit­ ed tradition, has been relaying talks sft PTr?T HK1*W : *fT W by others also, besides the Home ^ ^ ^ ?fh: tftrfr *fr eft Minister, and, if so, who were those persons whose talks were broadcast f ^ «TfT^TrTT I on the subject connected with the Official Languages Act? Explanation of Language Policy on AJ.R. Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: The earliest broadcast was by the Home Minister and thereafter, a few days **35 / Shri D* C* sharma: later, there was the broadcast by the Shrimati Ramdulari Sinha: Prime Minister.

Will the Minister of Information Shri D. C. Sharma: I wanted to and Broadcasting be pleased to state: know whether talks by others also were relayed. (a) whether the Ministry of Home Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: No Affairs have asked the All India other talk. Radio to explain Government’s po­ licy on the use of English as an asso­ Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know if ciate official language to the people; the Government has any plan to make known their policy with regard to (b) whether it is a fact that the the language through the mass media publicity media of the Union and such as films, broadcasts and other State Governments have failed to ex­ things in the near future, because it plain to the people the provisions cf happens to be a very ticklish subject, the Official Language Act; and, if so, can the Government give us the outlines of that plan? (c) if so, the reasons therefor; and Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: I have (d) the steps taken by the All a very long list with me. Excepting India Radio in the matter and the the films, we have put across, through results ahieved thereby? 8879 Oral Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers 888o>

every other media, the language i f T f r | f

or getting people from the states to v t e + w fa?n ^rrr^rr jpfffa w$\ to tt tell the people how far this policy is being implemented, and what steps 10 cTTTfasr 3>T ^T3^T %fa«T the Central Government are taking STM ^f^TT }fW l %■ q f ^TR T^T to help regional languages come into their own? «rrfa 10 c T R t ^ r ^ %■ q r ^ r 3jrd T^ft, ^ ^j^rr Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: There have been quite a few broadcasts in fit w ^ ?itwt the non-Hindi areas of translations of t fa ^ sn*rr ?fr% ife n the Prime Minister’s speech. There tfw sw ift ? have been a few occasions when they have again been relayed. This is so ^Ncft tfan *tW : W far as broadcasts are concerned. MW *TMH MY %far ? fit 2^1 Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: I am ■3^T% ^THFt I not interested in the Prime Minister’s speech; I was referring to talks by people in the states to the people. U.S. Assistance for Fighter Aircraft

sft qrotT : # ^ 5TPT5TT + f Shri P. C. Borooah: - ^Tfcrr if fa *836. ^ Shri Vidya Charan Shukla: L Shri Onkar Lai Berwa: oifcffqi | fa PTFfhr Sf Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to refer to the reply givem t fa*TT eft to Starred Question No. 383 on the ^trTT | m ^rft ? 7th December, 1964 and state: (a) whether the examination of the sffrreft f f a n report of the United States Air Force fatft experts regarding the U.S. assistance in supply and/or manufacture of high performance fighter aircraft for the t ? Indian Air Force has since been com­ pleted; and snrt (b) if so, the broad details thereof and the action being taken in the matter?

^trft 1 1 5ft mwx % fafasr WRjfr % The Minister of Defence Production in the Ministry of Defence (Shri A. M. <=m4*m *ft f |^ r *t | %fa^r Thomas): (a) and (b). As explain­ ®F»FT^»*T »T^)r ^ I ed in reply to Starred Question No. 383 answered in the House on 7th «ft TOT TP*T*T : ^fr *TT f ^ f t December, 1964, the U.S. Team of ex­ WTt $3 | ^TT TT <)*iH perts did not deal with the supply d high performance fighter aircraft or ^rr

production of HF-24 aircraft and for Shri A. M. Thomas: I do not think facilities for training in the United it would be proper on my part to- States. disclose what are the negotiations Shri P. C. Borooah: May I know that are taking place. Also, we are whether the US Government have not strictly in the know of supplies decided to keep the matter of that US Government is making to supply of F-5s to India pending till Pakistan. We have, as I have already President Ayub’s visit to USA, and indicated, projected our demands to have also indicated that this could the US Government. We have to only be done if a similar gift is made await their reaction. to Pakistan, whether Pakistan is already in possession of a full squad­ ron of F-104s which are more power­ ful than F-5s given as a gift by USA., 1962 # ^ srmrq prr eft if so, the reaction of the Government thereto? faSTWf ^ 'kMWl «TT fa SfTW tft SffRT ^TffTT eft $ Shri A. M. Thomas: As has been *TFRT ^TTfprT fa STF3T W’t ft f stated by me in the main answer, this team did not come to India in %fa7f sr* ^ WT connection with the supply of super­ PTi ^ f w eft wrrrr $ sonic fighters. With regard to the ^t 5ftr % qr other factors, our demands and requirements have been projected to ^t ?ftr ^ fa?r ^ cpft the US Government. We are yet to receive their reaction. The Minister of Defence (Shri Shri P. C. Borooah: May I know Y. B. Chavan): I think it requires whether the projected improved ver­ some little more explaining in this sion of HF-24 Mach I is comparable matter. We had projected our require­ in speed and efficiency with F-5; if ment of F-104Gs. During my visit to so, why concerted efforts cannot be the United States last year, I had made to produce the former to eli­ discussions on this matter with the minate the need of importing F-5s? representatives of the United States Government but they had neither Shri A. M. Thomas: This HF-24 rejected it nor accepted it; that was, Mach I is mainly intended for ground the stage at which the talks were. For attack role. For interception we all practical purposes we had taken should have Mach II aeroplanes. It for granted that we are not likely to is for that purpose we are going to get them. That was the only thing. manufacture MIG 21. Also, we have, We had certainly our own require­ as I have already indicated, projected ments of that type of aircraft which our demands to the US Government was good for the interception role. for supply of jet fighters. For that matter we carried on our negotiations with the USSR Govern­ Shri Joachim AJva: The point is ment for three squadrons of modified whether before or after the report, 21 Migs. As I explained the other day the US Government categorically to the House, we are likely to get ail refused to supply us F-104s, which the three squadrons by the end of they have supplied to Pakistan. Even this year. Then there was the request after the so-called refusal, they have for the type of aircraft which will supplied one more squadron. May I fulfil the role of the ground support- know whether they have offered in attack. For that matter we had pro­ the alternative any other fighters jected our requirements for F-5As for which have less power, manoeuvera- which we have not yet got the reply bility and ascent? of the United State® Government. 8885 Oral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Oral Answers 8868“

Shri Indrajit Gupta: In view of the Shri Y. B. Chavan: It is rather a fact that our main headache with difficult question to answer. We can HF24 is the question of getting a certainly assess that. I have, already suitable engine which we have not mentioned that in the case of the Air been able to get so far, what is the Force, we are yet to make certain exact calculation on the basis of which preparations. All our requirements of the Government is pursuing with the the modernisation and expansion of United States Government the ques­ our Air Force are still being pro­ tion of getting engine for HF 24 when jected. I cannot give answer in cate­ they were not so long prepared to gorical terms about the combined allow us develop an aircraft which capabilities of Pakistan and China. We will be superior or even equal in are making all the preparations. quality to that supplied to Pakistan? Shrimati Sharda Mukerjee: May I Shri Y. B. Chavan: Let us not know if one is to understand that the confuse the question of getting power. Government is dropping the idea of It is not for Mach II. what we really getting the necessary engine for HF 24 argued about HF 24 with the United from Egypt? States was to get the plant and machinery for increasing production Shri Y. B. Chavan: No, Sir; not at of Mach. I type. Really-speaking, it all. This was not indicated. Our is that thing which was projected. negotiations for getting power for About getting the engine for HF 24 HF 24 mach II are still going on. Mach II, I do not think that we have Occupation by Pakistan oi Jolaiya got anything to do with the United (Tripura) States. *837. Shri S. ML Banerjee: Will the Shri Indrajit Gupta: I asked some­ Minister of External Affairs be pleas­ thing totally different. I did not ask ed to state: about Mach n at all. (a) whether it is a fact that Pakis­ Shii T. B. Chavan: We want Mach tan has taken possession of a place I engine. We have built the frame. called Jolaiya (Tripura) Hill Chitta­ gong border; Shri Indrajit Gupta: Why are we (b) if so, whether thig was forcibly consulting the United States if we occupied by Pakistan; and hav* already got the frame? (c) the steps taken to vacate the Shri Y. B. Chavam: I explained it. aggression? It is a question of increasing produc­ tion of that variety. For that really The Minister of State in the Minis­ speaking, we wanted plant and try of External Affairs (Shrimati machinery. Lakshmi Menon): (a) No, Sir. Jolaiya is a tribal village within Indian terri­ Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: If my tory. There is no dispute about Jol­ memory serves me right, the Defence aiya, and no report has been received Minister answering a question about a of any Pakistani intrusion into this fortnight ago in the House said that specific area. in the context of China we are con­ (b) and (c) Do not arise. cerned not with the atomic threat but the conventional arms and weapons Shri S. M. Banerjee: Is it a fact threat. May I ask whether the Min­ that there is concentration of Pakis­ ister is in a position to tell the House tani forces on the borders of Tripura firmly an^ categorically that so far as where actually this Jolaiya is situat­ striking power in the air is concerned, ed and what steps have been taken India’s air power is well-matched by the Government to safeguard the against that of China and Pakistan interests of those who reside in that combined? area? 8887 Oral Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers 8888

Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: As I A pertinent question was put to the pointed out in the original answer it­ hon. Minister about that particular self, Jolaiya village is in Indian erri- area, not Jolaiya but the other area tory there is no instrusion there. Ad­ which has been mentioned by her in joining that area, there is an area of her reply. The question was whether 5 gq. miles which is regarded s dis­ that is in the possession of Pakistan. puted territory in the upper reaches She replied that this is a disputed oif the Feni river. There hag been area, there was intrusion, and so on. concentration of Pakistani forces in Are we not entitled to have a specific that area. reply whether the Pakistani forces have really occupied that particular Shri S. M. Banerjee: It may be area or not. That is exactly my correct that Jolaya has not been oc­ point. cupied by Pakistan, but from her Mr. Speaker: She has definitely statement it appears that there is an­ answered that question, Mr. Banerjee. other area which is adjoining this Where is the point of order? area—five square miles in area— where there is concentration of Pakis­ : $f *imhi tani forces. I want to know specifi­ cally from the hon. Minister whether ^l£dT f WRTfhr w t 3ft SfiTTOT that particular area is occupied by | f c . . . Pakistan. STO *ftf^TT: oq-^pqT Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: No, Sir. ^rr m ^ i There have been intrusions into that 'particular area. It is not Jolaiya village at all. ^TT wt ^ ^ ^ Mr. Speaker: It is not in the pos­ session of Pakistan? 5TTT STS’ ^HRTT # Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: No, Sir. ? *ft sptf SFFft ^ f t ^ Jolaiya village is not in the posses­ sion of Pakistan. ( Interruption). ^TRiT ^ I Mr. Speaker: The hon. Minister said that this particular area is not in ^ ^ | \ possession of Pakistan, but that there has been intrusion in another area adjoining it, about five square miles TTo TFT in area. The question was, whether, in that particular area of five square miles, there was only intrusion, that is, the persons came and went back, ®FT or, whether it is still in the possession |— | I -of Pakistan. STo TFRT : ^W ^t Shrimati Lakshmi Mtenon: It is still in thg| possession of Pakistan; it is a $ eft ^ 5t W ^TT ^T disputed area. We have made many attempts to come to an arrangement td'H ^ ^TT ’T^t, f^RHPt "by which this dispute could be settled, but so far we have not been success- ’T'STT ^ f ? :£ul. WW45T ^ fa Shri S. M. Banerjee: Sir, on a point there should be no disputed area now, of order. The point of order is this. henceforward? *889 Oral Answers CHAITEA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Oral Answers 8890 *To TT*T Afjrm : the Speaker has to fill up some gap on certain occasions, though strictly it is not the business of the Speaker that he should come in the way and then clarify the question or try to %^tf?rf^r^dl | frk ^r^TR-j ^ get an answer that the Minister does not give. ^w « h) | i t ^ *t^ tt g ? 12.00 hrs. ^T° TW iTfft^T Wtf^TT : TO- fo&t Ordinarily, it should be for the House :*Fcft ^ qf 3TcT *Tf ^ fa+MsI gir sfftTT to exert its own pressure. But at % t | ? ^nftft emg flung in such a manner against emphasise that that area itself is not 'each other? There ought to be some in the possession of Pakistan nor decorum kept. were any intrusions made into that. But she gave it out herself volun­ Shri Ranga: Perhaps from those tarily that another adjoining area of two points of order that have been five square miles had been intruded raised Jby my hon. friends, Shri into and subsequently she gave it out Banerjee and Dr. Lohia, and from the that that was in the possession of statements made by them, I under­ Pakistan. stand that they take objection to the Shri Ranga: That is why are manner in which the Minister has obliged to raise points of order, to tried to answer the questions. which you take objection. These According to them, the Minister tried points of order do serve a useful pur­ to evade a proper answer. I found, pose at question time also. from the helpful intervention you snade that she gave the answer even­ Shri Hem Barua: Another area is tually. Why should she have taken under Pakistani occupation and she so much trouble and given cause for also said that it is a disputed area. anxiety? There must be some way in which you are entitled to expect Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: I did them to be precise and accurate and not say that Jolaiya is a disputed truthful in the answers that they area. give. Mr. Speaker: Again the same confu sion is being suffered from. She did Mr. Speaker: Sometimes the Oppo­ not say that that area is a disputed sition is very bountiful in equipping area, which is referred to in the ques­ me with powers that are not mine and tion, viz., Jolaiya. But she said that sometimes they want to curtail them. the other area is being disputed by O f course, the occasion :might Pakistan as her own. vary; that is my right. But now, it is for the hon. Members to put a Shri Hem Barua: This is a disputed question and for the Minister to area. This shows that she wants to answer that. Technically and strict­ justify the occupation of that area by ly, the Speaker has no right to inter- Pakistan, which we do not want to t e e in the answer that is given by be justified. the Minister or the Government, and Mr. Speaker: That was the point nowhere in any democracy it is done raised by Dr. Lohia as well. It should so. But this procedure has develop­ be for the Government to say what ed a little here, for sometime, and is really in the interests of the coun­ perhaps it is due to the smallness of try; it is not for me. Government numbers on the opposition side that has that responsibility----- 219(Ai)LSD—2. 8891 Oral Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers 8892 Shri Hem Baraa: You have the Ptti % authority to pull them up, Sir. fair rf^r, W W li % fe r | I Mr. Speaker: It is not my business; it is for them to see what the real facts are and what they should give. It is not for me. =Ft t sftr fa*r ^ | ? Shri Hem Barua: It is for you, Sir. ^ °mi*i *ft % ^ ^ Tfr *n fa % Mr. Speaker: No, please. 3*ft f^TCRT farr «TT ?rk Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: The ^TT TOT | I «TT fa ^ H'ft late Prime Minister had meetings with | ^TT I ^ *T% fW^T faTT | I ^T^t his counterpart in Pakistan in order to finalise and come to an agreement ^ fa n *TT I regarding disputed areas along the border in the eastern zone, which wmit : ^TT ^ aiww\ 5HFT means Assam, Tripura and West t 1 fatft *HI?t % 'jHN SHR *R<=f>K Bengal. Now we are told that there are other areas which are left as Hn*\ TT^r ^TFft ^ rft 'Hi I disputed and are in possession of % §TRT ^TST ^TR- ^t Tf^t glTT Pakistan. Let the House be made ^rfar %% qr 1^ 1 ^ sr^rr ^ aware as to what exactly are the por­ tions which Pakistan has got in its ^ nft ^ ? w ^ ^rfsr- possession but which we claim as our wrc ^rt | ?tt 5^ | ? own. Otherwise, it comes only by w f a qr '5T3R7r qrfa^rTR" % fam way of questions and answers. t ?fk ^ t fa ^rft fn U tii W>% T$]' t ^ SRiT^ft 3TT ^TrFfT^rr | ^ft ^ ^ 1 ? n ft o «JW ^ t Jlldl ^ ^ ■‘Hd | eft ^TT ?T^T Sfft % ^ | fa ^ ^rsftift *r^"k | 1 ^ ^TT ’WT % 'dST ^Tpft % ^ t^ tt i fa n 3^R fW ^ ^rr ? 13^ % ?T®?f wr*T VRT9T : ^T3^T % qTO- <4^d % f e n ^TTtT ^ *K+I< %f?nr vift ^Rrnr m & n r | w t % ^ferTq> ^ixwrf UTr *rf I sfo; % ?ftr w i? % vt VT27! ^ft ^ET qT ^STScTT ^ I 5FH1 sf^TT W f? R f | JTfi

IFT? ft^ 1 I % far fa*ft 3TR*ft 'Fsft ^B^WT »T ^t ^ k IT eft C T T T ^ t

*JI ^TTTT tjj fe ft ^Tt m f fa fjRT fa^ft 4 h < ^?t ^ ftstft r a t ^ ^rr *nrq fa *r ^ r- ^TT ^3% -4^^ ^t fa ^T^RT far t fit 11 ’FIT f ^ ^ «T5T ^ fa 8893 0ral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Oral Answers 8894

Non-lmdian Employees of A I R . «RTFft f f | ^ ^ ^ r^T i ere ^ f Shri Indrajit Gupta: ftfOT f ^-W'vR *^TT ft>T 838‘ \ Shri Daji: ^geife mrrift ^ Will the Minister of Information f^RT ^m^rr i ana Broadcasting be pleased to state: (a) whether non-Indians employed Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Sir, as staff artistes by the All India my question has not been answered. Radio are paid any overseas allow­ ance; Mr. Speaker: Is that inlormation available? (b) whether it is a fact that they are not paid the dearness, city com­ Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: This pensatory and house allowances paid question has been answered many to other staff artistes; and times in this House about the riverine (c) if so, the reasons for such dis­ border of the Feni river. criminatory treatment against non- Indian employees? Mr. Speaker: Shrimati Renu Chakra- The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ vartty has asked for a detailed answer try of Information and Broadcasting which might require more of labour (Shri C. B. Pattabhi Raman): (a) and work. Therefore, I will request Yes, Sir. Non-Indians recruited the hon. Minister to put that statement abroad are paid an overseas allowance on the Table of the House sometime of Rs. 250 p.m., but non-Indians re­ later. cruited in India are not entitled to this allowance.

% 5RTFTT ^ HlPtmiM 5TTT (b) Yes, Sir. ^»TT *TT TfTT ^ I Mlf^>T ^HTTW India—are higher than their Indian counterparts. In addition, an overseas ^nr Tfr | 1 ^ ^ r r g f% allowance of Rs. 250 p.m. is paid to ^T% STTT ^TT l«1 all non-Indians recruited abroad. As such, there is no question of discri­ minatory treatment against non- Indian employees.

The Minister of External Affairs Shri Indrajit Gapta: I would like (Shri Swaran Singh): Sir, we are to know whether those non-Indiana aware of the problem that is there, and who are recruited in India are not I do not think it will be quite correct considered to be employees of the All for me to give the details of the India Radio on the same footing as arrangements made. Indian citizens; if so, why are they being deprived of all these dearness allowance, city compensatory allow­ ance and house rent allowance which have been sanctioned for the others?

TOW qjffcq : *nwt f far Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: The farfMfcpft atom t I Iff* reason^ very dear. Prior to 1st ______^ November 1961, most of the program- *u *fist f I me posts in the external services were 8895 07,(11 Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Oral Answers 8896 borne on regular government scales. Bulk of them were designated as Short Notice Questions supervisors, translators etc. From that date these posts were converted into sttt staff artistes. Regarding foreign ffrllt-f nationals, they are of two kinds: one recruited abroad and the second those f titm ft: recruited in India who in addition. to their pay scales get an allowance tit ^ ^ ; of Rs. 250 per month. There is no tit firarr : discrimination in regard to the ameni­ ties that are admissible to the staff tit sr

After preliminary examination of «ft wprit : ^t ^r?*r the Charter Defence Minister who is ^t nf 5ft fa *RVR the Chairman of the Board of Cont­ *rk % *fhr $ =^r Tfr ?ft, rol, Canteen Services, held discussions with the employees on 2nd July rft TOT fatft ^t & ^TPR- 1964. An Ad-Hoc Committee with a SR+k Tft I Joint Secretary in the Ministry as Chairman was appointed to examine the demands in consultation with the Shri Y. B. Chavan: It is net possi­ employees. The report of the Ad Hoc ble to accept anything of that type; but Committee was considered by the certainly I did discuss this matter with Board of Control on 17th December the leaders of the Union only very re­ 1964. The Board of Control could cently and I can mention, with his concede neither of these two major permission, that the hon. Member, Shri demands. The Ad Hoc Committee Banerjee, was present. I tried to per­ had also not recommended the acce­ suade them to accept the decisions and ptance of these two major demands. However, the contribution to the Can­ recommendations made by the ad hoc teen Stores Department (India) Em­ committee and the sympathetic atti­ ployees’ Benevolent Fund was in­ tude shown by the Canteen Board it­ creased to Rs. 4,50,000 as against Rs. self. My impression was that the hon. 40,000 in the previous year. Draft Member, Shri S. M. Banerjee, was wil­ rules for liberalising the operation of ling to advise them accordingly; un­ the fund have been finalised and are fortunately, the leaders of the Union being placed before the Board of did not accept that advice. Control. gw vsprm • % 5TWI The stand of the Board of Control ff fa TOT ^3RTR *fl^t has been explained on a number of ^ ^ ^FTT ^oq- jTTfrK WT * ft | I occasions to the employees, who have, ^T^NTf^ft ? % 70 % however, continued to agitate for the acceptance of their demands. The %*ft»T SFPT ft*T ^ s f W f I Board of Control sincerely hopes that TOT % W 'TT sptf fazrr f \ employees would take into account the concessions already given and call Shri Y. B. Chavan: We cannot the strike off. accept the question of bonus as bonus in this particular organisation because • TOT ^ ^ its legal status is somewhat different; 1961 but, really speaking, we allowed a

sto r forr *tt fa ^ sft | large sum for the Benevolent Fund, the distribution of which could be more liberalised. I have made that ^ft +MI ^3^% « himk % offer. The amount of the Benevolent Fund that is given, really speaking, SmTR

Shri S. M. Banerjee:...... but he did not agree to convert them into •ftRTT *ft | ^ srara full-fledged Government employees ?T^T fOT I and that was one of the reasons why they did not listen either to his ad­ vice or to my advice. I would like to i ^ | 1 know what is his reaction to it, whe­ ther those employees will be treated *ft faSR as Government employees for all purposes not only suo motu but actu­ | fa *T*T 1 952-5 3 ally also. ^ f^rrnfw ^ fa Shri Y. B. Chavan: Yes; I think, ^rt farr ^ r , %fa^r 1 3 ^ f t *t that assurance that I gave to the ?r*fr cT^ ^T ^ 2*T cPT ^ i t t o t hon. Member and the leaders of the Shri Y. B. Chavan: We had cer­ Union does stand even now. tain correspondence with the Public Shri Warior: In view of the fact Accounts Committee and the Accoun­ that the Government has increased tant General on this matter. It is the funds now, what will be the added rather a very complicated matter and advantage to these canteen workers we have to take a certain decision; and how will they be distributed in maybe, it will have to be converted the shape of allowances etc? into some sort of a Government de­ Shri Y. B. Chavan: The Benevolent partment. If it is converted into a Fund and its distribution depends up­ Government department, the purposes on certain rules. Their feeling is that for which this organisation exists will the rules are somewhat restrictive and be completely defeated. So, we are it cannot be made use of for the pur­ trying to find out other via media; but, poses for which they want it. But we if we cannot succeed in any of these have agreed at the present moment matters, we will have to take some that these rules can be liberalised and final decision about this matter. it can be made use of for the purposes for which they want to make use of JUIMR : ^TT stdHI it. ^ ? f t | f a ^rr Shri Daji: Will the Minister tell us fcrm ^#nr i. qr fa ^ ^rf ft ^ rtt how Government proposes to get out ? of this anomalous position? On the one hand, you are not ready to treat Shri Y. B. Chavan: I do not know these employees as Government em­ about it; it depends upon the em­ ployees; on the other, you are not pre­ ployees and the employees’ union to pared to treat them as commercial take a decision about the strike. Natu­ employees and give them the benefit rally, in spite of the strike, we will of bonus. Either you treat them as have to carry on the work. Government employees; then, the Shri S. M. Banerjee: As the hon. question of bonus will not arise: or, treat them as commercial employees Minister has stated, he met the repre­ or as employees of a corporation, sentatives of this particular union along with me and discussed the en­ something like that; then, all the benefits accruing to the employees of tire question. I would like to know commercial undertakings will apply to whether he is aware that the assur­ them. But, the Government wants the ance given by him was that for all purposes, for service conditions, wages best of both the worlds. How does the Government propose to meet their and other conditions, they will be treated as Ordnance employees suo demands? m otu;...... Shri Y. V. Chavan: It is logical Shri Y. B. Chavan: Conversion. the hon. Member has put the case $9 0 1 Oral Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Written Answers 8902

quite rightly. But, unfortunately, the surplus which is available for the this organisation*? legal status does troops may not be lof*. Tha is why not fit into these things. we are trying to find a way out. Ultimately, if it comes to that, one Shri Daji: Change the legal status would have to take a logical view then. either to convert it into a Department or a commercial corporation. That Shri T. B. Chavan: That is why will take a long time. Once we accept for all practical purposes we wanted to treat them as civilian employees. the position that it should be either That offer stands. converted into a department or a corporation, it will take a long time Shri Indrajit Gupta: I want to and that is no solution for the pre­ know whether at any time the nego­ sent strike. tiating machinery existed in this Department to provide a channel bet­ Shri Daji: Strike will be over. ween employees and the management Shri Priya Gupta: It is a statutory for settling their grievances and, if requirement on the part of the so, what has happened to that machi­ employer to open a canteen and, if nery, why did it break down and, if so, how is it that the pay scales and there was no machinery, why such a service conditions of these employees machinery had not been provided? under the Government of India can Shri Y. B. Chavan: In this parti­ be other than what have been recom­ cular matter, I did appoint an ad hoc mended by the Central Pay Commis­ committee with the Joint Secretary sion since this organisation is a Gov­ as the Chairman of that committee ernment organisation and not a pri­ which went into the question and dis­ vate organisation? It is a statutory cussed the matter with the employees organisation. and their union for a long time and Shri Y. B. Chavan: This is not they submitted a report to me. I had strictly a Government Department. personal discussions with the leaders Therefore, they are not Government of the union, not once but twice and employees. even thrice. Shri Alvares: Between 1956 and 1962, the profits of the Canteen Stores WRITTEN ANSWERS TO Department rose from Rs. 15 lakhs to QUESTIONS Rs. 56 lakhs. This proves that there is a certain amount of viability. Will the Minister now take matters to Demarcation of Indo-Pak Border settle this problem by referring the f Shri P. C. Borooah: issue to arbitration? # J Shri D. C. Sharma: *839. shri Rameshwar Tantia: Shri Y. B. Chavan: The word I Shri Raghunath Singh: “profit’ is rather a misnomer in this particular case. Certainly, certain Will the Minister of External Affairs surpluses are there. They are there be pleased to state: because of certain concessions that they get ^rom the Railway Ministry (a) the progress made so far in the and because of certain concessions demarcation of the Indo-Pakistan that they get from the Income-Tax borders in the East i.e. along Assam, Act application. They are, really Tripura and West Bengal separately; speaking, not profits in that particular and sense. These funds and these sur­ pluses are conventionally used for the (b) the extent of the border along welfare of the troops and it was the Tripura, Assam and West Bengal, intention to keep this position so that which still remains to be demarcated? 8903 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers

The Minister of State in the Minis, making concentrations in s e v e n ! try of External Affairs (Shrimati points on Assam-Nagaland bolder Lakshmi Menon): (a) Demarcation, between Miriani and Dimapur, mena­ by the placement of boundary pillars, cing the peace in the border areas; has been completed on the following:— (b) if so, the broad details thereof^ (i) 1079 miles out of 1349 miles and of West Bengal-East Pakistan (c) Government’s reaction thereto boundary; ?4 The Minister of State in the Minis­ (ii) 184 miles out of 550 miles of try of External Affairs (Shrimati of the Tripura-East Pakistan Lakshmi Menon): (a) and (b). Yes* boundary; and Report of concentration of armed (iii) 423 miles out of 620 miles of Underground Nagas along the Assam-* the Assam-East Pakistan Nagaland border have been received. boundary. It is not unlikely that this is the con­ sequence of certain arrests made (b) Demarcation has not yet been lately by our Security Forces of Naga completed on the following:— trespassers into the adjoining area* of Assam State. (i) Portions of West Bengal-East Pakistan boundary at: (c) Security Forces along the border have been alerted. A joint enquiry Berubari, and Hili, and along into the incidents of trespasses and the rivers Mahananda the circumstances of the arrests is Borung and Karafcoa, and being conducted by officials of the the rivers Hankar Khal and Assam Government and the Nagaland Baikari Khal. Government as agreed to by the Chie*' Ministers of both the States. (ii) Tripura-East Pakistan border at: India’s Stand on Tibet the Tripura-Sylhet Sub-Sector, *841. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamatttr the Tripura-Chittagong J Will the Minister of External Affairs Chittagong Hill Tracts Sub­ 6e pleased to state: Sector and the Tripura- Noakhali-Sub-Sector for (a) whether his attention has been about 22 miles. drawn to the statement contained in the Home Minister’s White Paper on (iii) Assam-East Pakistan boun­ the activities of Pro-Peking Commu­ dary: nists laid on the Table on the 18th February, 1965 to the effect that the 190 miles of Mizo District- said Communists have adopted a per­ Chittagong Hill Tracts Sub­ verse anti-national attitude on the Sector, 1 mile near Umapati issue of so-called “liberation of Tibet** village, and 6 miles near by China; Lathitilla-Dumabari vil­ lages.

the Communist Party of India receiv­ Conversion of Tribal People of NEFA. ed with satisfaction reports of the by Missionaries Chinese Government’s suppression of the revolts in Tibet in 1959. This *843. Shri Rameshwar Tantia: Will, attitude of the left C.P.I. members the Minister of External Affairs be was out of harmony with the feelings pleased to state: of the people of India as a whole who (a) whether it is a fact that Chris­ felt deep sympathy for Tibetan people tian Missionaries have converted a in their suffering and deprivation of human rights. lage number of tribal people of NEFA Area into Christians; ib ) and (c). India has accepted the status of Tibet as an autonomous (b) whether there is a political: region of tihe People’s Republic of move in converting them as Chris­ tians; and China, and has taken the stand that China should respect this autonomy. (c) if so, the action taken by Gov­ There has been no change in tihis ernment^ in the matter?- stand. The Minister of State in the Minis­ Supply of Publications to M.Ps. try of External Affairs (Shrimati- Lakshmi Menon): (a) No, Sir; though *842 $ YashPal Singh: there were a few cases of conversion; * \ Shri Kapur Singh: in the past. Will the Minister of Information and (b) No, Sir. Broadcasting be pleased to state: (c) Does not arise. (a) whether her attention has been drawn to the fact that many books, brochures and pamphlets brought out by the various Ministries are distri­ buted to all M.Ps.; *844. (b) whether it is also a fact that many of these publications are of no use to Members of Parliament; and (c) whether Government propose f^TT : to discontinue the supply of such books to Members in the interest of (^ ) ^TT *K+K WFT cT^T economy? vt sftr f^rrm t o t ^ ^

The Minister of Information and ^ 3FT ePTT Broadcasting (Shrimati Indira Gandhi): (a) The Ministry is aware ^ ^ W f t TTRTcrr ^ ^T f^PTTO that many books, brochures and f^TT t ; sfk pamphlets are distributed by various Ministries to all Members of Parlia­ (w) vfk ft, eft w ment. *K+K ^t WT afd'f^MT I ? (b) This is not within the Ministry’s knowledge. fiRst f a f ) : (^ ) 14 ^rr^f ^t ^rffrr (c) So far as this Ministry is con­ cerned, only suchr publications are ^ ^ sft being supplied to the Members of 10 M %?ft Parliament through the Lok Sabha j Rajya Sabha Secretariat as are con­ sidered to be of informative value. -Written Answers APRIL. 12, 1965 Written Answers 8908

Vir” National Awards has been con­ 11 ^ *Pt *n^rr ^ stituted and is functioning; (b) if so, its constitution; 9r m ^ fm i ^nrft 1^ 7- ^ 1? ?T7^-Wt TT3T- (c) whether applications in this regard have been received and scru­ ^ W 1 tinised by the Committee; and

(^ ) stott i»Hii^t ^ fPr- (d) when a final decision is likely to be taken? zrrft % ftrarai I *ft* *3 ^ ^ p g ?f ?n^ ^ ft f%^T The Minister of Labour and Employ­ ment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) Not 1 1 yet. ^ F l t 1 (b) Does not arise. Bonus Commission’s Recommendations (c) The applications are being / Shri p* R* CWo-averti: received. As the response was not ®45* \ Shri P. C. Borooah: satisfactory, the last date for receipt of applications has been extended upto Will the Minister of Labour and 30th April, 1965. Employment be pleased to state: (d) As soon as possible after the (a) whether no accord was reached Awards Committee has been set up between the employers and employees and it has adjudged the applications. at the recent meeting of the Standing Labour Committee over the Bonus Newspaper Industry -Commission’s recommendations; (b) if so, the main points of differ­ *847. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Minister of Information and Broad­ ence; casting be pleased to state: (c) the other subjects discussed at the said meeting and suggestions (a) the number of organisations representing the Newspaper Industry made; and in the country; (d) Government’s reaction thereto? (b) the various facilities that are The Minister of Labour and Em­ being granted to them; ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) There was no agreement between the (c) whether any rules have been framed for their recognition and parties. whether a copy thereof will be laid (b) The main point of difference on the Table of the House; was over the protection of the higher bonus benefits, wherever existing. (d) whether Government ascertain­ ed the representative character of (c) and (d). A copy of the maiK these organisations before granting conclusions is laid on the Table

ever, where necessary, All-India accessories, with a working capital of organisations are consulted on matters about Rs. 15 lakhs, when full produc­ relating to the press. tion is established.

Manufacture of Air Compressors Indian Rockets

r Shri Yashpal Singh: f Shri P. C. Borooah: I Shri S. M. Banerjee: j Shri Rameshwar Tantia: *848 J Shri Hem •849.^ Shrimati Savitri Nigam: * ) Shri Sobodh Hansda: j Shri Indrajit Gupta: | Shri S. C. Samanta: L Shri Himatsingka: Dr. Mahadeva Prasad: Will the Prime Minister be pleased Will the Minister of Defence be to state: pleased to refer to the reply given to Unstarred Question No. 1031 on the (a) the progress made in manufac­ 7th December, 1964 and state: turing Indian Rockets for use at Thumba launching station; and (a) whether the collaboration pro­ posal with the Japanese firm named (b) when the first Indian rocket is Messrs. Hokuetsu Kogyo Company, likely to be produced? Tokyo, for the manufacture of air compressors at the Garden Reach The Prime Minister and Minister Workshop, Calcutta has been finalised; of Atomic Energy (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) As stated in the answer (b) if so, the terms and conditions to Starred Question No. 6 on Septem­ thereof; ber 7, 1964, an agreement for the sup­ (c) when the production will start; ply of know-how and for the grant and of a manufacturing licence for making Centaure Sounding Rockets in India (d) the estimated outlay involved? has been concluded with Sud Avia­ tion of France. Documents contain­ The Minister of Defence Production ing the know-how have been received in the Ministry of Defence (Shri and are being studied by the techni­ A. M. Thomas): (a) Yes, Sir. A cal staff of the Atomic Energy Estab­ Licence Agreement for the manufac­ lishment, Trombay, who will fabricate ture of Portable Rotary Air Com­ the rockets in the Central Workshop. pressors at the Garden Reach Work­ Five technical officers of the Atomic shops Ltd., Calcutta was signed on Energy Establishment, Trombay, who 26th February, 1965. were deputed for training at the fac­ tory of Sud Aviation, have just (b) Full and exclusive licence and authority to manufacture the Com­ returned to India and are installing the machinery for the manufacture of pressors as also all parts and com­ ponents thereof in India and a non­ the rockets. exclusive licence to sell them in cer­ (b) The first Indian rocket is tain neighbouring countries. expected to be produced in early 1966-

(c) The manufacture of certain Second Afro-Asian Conference parts and components for the Com­ pressor will commence in September *850. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Will 1965; the first batch of Compressors the Minister of External Affairs be made in Garden Reach Workshops is pleased to refer to the reply given expected to be placed on the market to Starred Question No. 309 on the in January, 1966. 8th March, 1965 and state:

(d) Capital outlay required is about (a) whether Government have pro- Rs. 6 lakhs for machine tools and posed or intend to propose that 8911 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written A n g ers 8 91 besides USSR and Malaysia, Israel too Cease-fire Violation by Pakistanis be admitted to the Second Afro-Asian Conference scheduled to commence at *852 $ Shri Rameshwar Tantia: Algiers from the 29th June, 1965; * ^ Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey:

(b) if so, the reaction to Govern­ Will the Minister of Defence be* ment’s proposal; and pleased to state: (c) if not, the reasons therefor? (a) whether it is a fact that Pakis­ The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ tani forces violated the cease-fire- try of External Affairs (Shri Dinesh line on the 24th and 25th March, 1965­ Singh': (a) No, Sir. in the Naushera and Chhamb sectors; (b) if so, the number of personnel (b) Does not arise. of the Indian forces who were killed, (c) Israel’s participation was not (c) whether any Pakistani soldiers: raised by any country. Israel did not were also killed or arrested; participate in the first Afro-Asian Conference at Bandung. Israel’s par­ (d) whether it is also a fact that ticipation would really mean non­ six complaints of cease-fire violations: participation by a large number of were lodged with the U.N. Observers countries including all Arab countries, against Pakistanis; and and the Afro-Asian Conference would, therefore, cease to have a represen­ (e) if so whether any judgment has; tative character. been given by the U.N. Observers in this regard? Indian Trade Unions (Amendment) Act, 1947 The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): (a) Yes, Sir. Six times ,— Shri Kishen Pattnayak: in Naushera and four times in Chhamb Shri S. S. More: sectors. Shri Khadilkar: *851. Shri Yogendra Jha: (b) None, but two Indian soldiers- Shri Sheo Narain: were injured. | Shri Tridib K umar Chaud- (c) None. Five Pakistani soldiers huri: were injured. Will the Minister of Labour and (d) Nine cease-fire violation com­ Employment be pleased to state: plaints were lodged with the UN (a) whether his Ministry is aware Military Observers against Pakistan. of the existence on the Statute Book of the Indian Trade Unions (Amend­ (e) The awards of the Chief Mili­ ment) Act (XLV of 1947) relating to tary Observer on these complaints are compulsory recognition of trade not known, as under the revised pro­ unions; cedure he informs only the side against which he gives a cease-fire (b) if so, whether a notification has violation award. been issued under section ( 2) of this Act; and D.A. To Defence Services Personnel (cj if not, whether Government f Shri P. C. Borooah: intend issuing such a notification ir J Shri Bibhuti Mishra: the near future? ' *] Shri Ramachandra Ulaka, The Minister of Labour and Em- Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) Will the Minister of Defence bt Yes. pleased to state: (b) No. (a) whether Government have (c) No. taken a decision to enhance the dear­ S913 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written Answers 8914

ness allowance being paid to the Def­ police party and extradition of Sucha ence Services personnel; Singh? (b) if so, the exent thereof and the The Minister of State In the Minis-' date from which the increase is to be try of External Affairs (Shrim p given effect to; and Lakshmi Menon): (a) An Indian (c) whether arrears of D.A. pay­ police party had gone into Nepal ter­ able have been cleared off? ritory with arms in search of Sucha Singh without prior intimation to The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Nepal Government and was detained Chavan): (a) Yes, Sir. by the Nepalese authorities. (b) A statement is laid on the Table (b) The matter was taken up with of the Lok Sabha showing the old His Majesty’s Government immedia­ and revised rates of dearness allow­ tely after it became known that the ance. [Placed in Library, See No. Police Party had entered Nepal terri­ Lt-4178/65]. The revised rates are tory. His Majesty’s Government ins­ effective from 1st October 1964, and tructed their local authorities to the increase is thus admissible from release and look after the Party, that date. which the latter did. The Police Party (c) Yes, Sir. returned to India some days ago.

Detention of Indian Police Party Sucha Singh’s transfer to our cus­ by Nepal tody has been requested and His Majesty’s Government of Nepal are Shri Yashpal Singh: processing his extradition. Shri Yudhvir Singh: Shri Krishnapal Singh: Ex-Servicemen on Live Registers Shri Hem Barna: Shri Kapnr Singh: / Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: Shri R. S. Tiwary: ^ Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: Shri Bade: Will the Minister of Labour Shri Hukam Chand Employment be pleased to state: Kachhavaiya: Shri Onkar Lai Berwa: (a) the number of ex-Servicemen Shri Buta Singh: . borne on the Live Registers of various Shri Raghunath Singh: Employment Exchanges in each State *854. 4 Shri D. C. Sharma: seeking employment assistance as on Shri Ram Sewfek: the 31st December, 1964; and Shri P. L. Barupal (b) the number of such ex-Service­ Shri Ganri Shanker ft men who found employment during Kakkar: 1964? Shri Chuni Lai: Shrimati Ramdulari Sinha: The Minister of Labour and Shri Inder J. Malhotra: Employment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: (a) and (b). A statement is laid on Will the Minister of External Affairs the Table of the House. [Placed in be pleased to state: Library, See No. LT-4179/65]. (a) whether it is a fact that the Reorganization of External Affairs Indian Police party, chasing Sucha Ministry Singh, the alleged assassin of Shri 2164. Shri Ram Harkh Yadav: Will Kairon was detained by the Nepal the Minister of External Affairs be Police; and pleased to state: (b) if so, the steps taken by Gov­ (a) whether his Ministry has re­ ernment to secure the release of the organised some of its divisions with 8915 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8916

a view to ensure even and rational cient and expeditious disposal of! distribution of work; and work. * (b) if so, the details o£ the re­ organized divisions?

The Minister of External Affairs 2165. srcn?: w (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) The following Divisions have been re-organised:— (**») cfftrfr srafsr i f (i) Western eTWT f^| < TT (ii) Southern (iii) Africa and West Asia I; (iv) Pakistan I and II (v) China (^r) w dfa (vi) Economic. ^T fenTT f^ T R ^ srfa In each division there is a Joint Secretary or a Director, Deputy | ; *rk Secretary, Under Secretaries, Senior Research Officers and Attaches (*l) fefTT TR3T *T ^ «IT% depending upon the volume and nature of work handled. fi silT qr ^ cr^ Each division has a Registry under ^ET^t o^T^FPTT ^TT ? the supervision of a Registrar f Archivist, whose duties are to main­ ^NTrf^mrw w hft (*ft w n ft): tain the records of the Registry and ( * ) 24. supply the dealing Officers of the Division with the relevant files and (w ) OT reference books, etc. The Registrar/ Archivist is assisted by an Assistant Archivist and adequate number of Clerks to attend to all the routine '3TFt 13 *11 ^ 'd’l work such as diarising, typing, issue, indexing and recording of files. The STO 20,000 §>TT I special feature of this system is that all cases are initiated at the level of (*r) . 170 Under Secretaries/Attaches with the . 2 56 help of their Assistants provided to them, and they are expected to dis­ "m TOTFPTt qf^RT qT;ff pose of cases by direct dictation to their P.As. /Steno-typists. All impor­ tant cases requiring policy decisions * 1^ MtdM ^|VT+l0 ft are initiated at Deputy Secretary/ Vftzn *TTWt ^t 5TTTT I Director/Joint Secretary level. Under Secretaries and Attaches submit their Transmitter in Pondicherry work direct either to the Joint Secre­ tary/Director or Deputy Secretary 2166. Shri Dharmalingam: Will the concerned, as the case may be/within Minister of Information and Broad­ the framework of level jumping. casting be pleased to state: The system has been in force since (a) whether there is any proposal March, 1962 and from experience it to instal a medium wave transmitter is seen that this has resulted in effi­ at Pondicherry; and 8917 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written Answers 8918T* (b ) if so, when the same will be cd in Library, See No. LT-4180/65]. commissioned? This ig based on the despatch advic* The Minister of Information and received from the supplying firms. Broadcasting (Shrimati Indira (c) The maintenance and operation Gandhi): (a) Yes, Sir. of community listening sets is the res­ (b) By the middle of next year. ponsibility of State Governments and Union Territories and a number of Quarters for AXR. Employees in them have setup Maintenance Orga­ Madras nisations on the basis of the Model Maintenance Scheme, furnished to 2167. Shri Dharmalingam: Will the them by A.I.R. Necessary details in Minister of Information and Broad­ regard to the maintenance organisa­ casting be pleased to state: tion of each State and Union Terri­ (a) whether adequate staff quarters tory are now being collected in order to locate the shortcomings if any, and have been constructed for the em­ ployees of the A.I.R. station at to decide further remedial measures. Madras; and (b) if not, the steps taken to pro­ vwreiqFift f^rt wm v *rrr vide accommodation for them? The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Shrimati Indira f ^ *To fg tit : Gandhi): (a) 46 quarters of various 2 1 6 9 . *fo : categories have been constructed at the High Power Transmitter site at Avadi for the staff attached to the in­ stallation which is located about 22 kilometres away from Madras city. No SFTT W : quarters have been constructed for All India Radio staff in Madras pro­ ( ^ ) «RT ^ | ^l+IVNIufl per. f ^ t W ^TPPT zfftRT (b) With our limited funds, the + K f e n TFTT m, construction of staff quarters is con­ s r f a r r ^ K f^?T srr | ; sidered only in places where the pro­ blem of housing accommodation is (sr) ^TT ^ TT more acute than in Madras. #3ftt ^ far %fak Community Listening Sets 2168. Shrimati Ramdulari Sinha: Will the Minister of Information and (*r) % stpshtpt f ^ t Broadcasting be pleased to state: (a) the State-wise figures including the Union territories, of community f W % fe ft 5TWM ’TT listening sets supplied in 1964; (b) the basis on which such figures were worked out; and (c) the arrangements for the main­ (*r) qfe ft, eft ^npt tenance of such sets? ° The Minister of Information anil sRTrrv *nft Broadcasting (Shrimati Indira Gandhi): (a) and (b). A statement is ifw tt : (^ ) laid on the table of the House. [PEac- jfRRT I ^8919 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8920

(*?) ^ r r 1 (c) the steps taken by Government for utilising these idle sets? (n ) % ^trrm r The Minister of Information and snft^r ^ w t ^ht % ?n^ff Boradcasting (Shrimati Indira ^Ft Pwifafi % fer W IM OTT Gandhi): (a) Punjab: 9,312.

f t f w U ^ i ? W9^+dl^K Delhi: 278. ftRTf^FTt % ^ 5 JT^TT^f (b) Punjab: 1,238.

Telephone Connections in Punjab (c) To facilitate the efficient work­ ing of community listening sets, the f Shri Yashpai Singh: Punjab Government has setup ad­ 2170. ^ Shri s M Banerjee: ditional maintenance sub-centres and has also started supplying dry battery Will the Minister of Communica­ packs and spare parts at “no profit no tions be pleased to state: loss” basis. Since the Delhi Ad- (a) the names of the Police Stations ministraion has now supplied battery packs, 90 per cent of these idle sets so far provided with telephone con­ nections in the Punjab State; have started functioning.

(b) the number of Police Stations Engine for HF-24 Jet still without telephone connections in f Shri S. M. Banerjee: Punjab; and J Shri Yashpai Singh: 2172.^ shri Onkar Lai Berwa: (c) when such connections will be ^ Shri P. C. Borooah: provided? Will the Minister of Defence be The Deputy Minister in the .De­ pleased to refer to the reply given to partment of Communications (Shri Unstarred Question No. 1044 on the Bhagavati): (a) A statement is laid 7th December, 1964 regarding Engine on the table of the House [Placed in for HF-24 Jet and state: library, see No. LT-4181/65]. (a) whether the proposals made by (b) 56. M/s Bristol Siddley Engineers Ltd., London have since been examined by (c) During the course of the next Government; and three years. (b) il so, the decision taken in the Radio Sets for Rural Areas matter?

/ Shri Yashpai Singh: The Minister of Defence Production Shri S. M. Banerjee: in the Ministry of Defence (Shri Will the Minister of Information A. M. Thomas): (a) and (b). A final decision on the proposal regarding the and Broadcasting be pleased to state: Orpheus 703 engine has not yet been (a) the number of radio sets sup­ taken. plied in rural areas of Punjab and Delhi separately till the 31st Janu­ Negotiating Machinery in Defence ary, 1965; Establishments

(b) the number of radio sets lying 2173 / Shri s - M Banerjee: idle in the rural areas of Punjab and \ Shri Yashpai Singh: Delhi as on the 31st January, 1965; and Will the Minister of Defence be 8921 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written Answers 8922 pleased to state: L.D.Cs. in Ordnance Corps (a' whether necessary instructions have been issued to restart the nego­ tiating machinery in the Defence Esta­ 2175. Shri Heda: Will the Minister blishments; of Defence be pleased to state: (b) if not, the reason for the delay* and ' (a) the total number of Lower Divi­ sion Clerks in the Army Ordnance (c) the steps taken by Government Corps as on the 31st December, 1964; to implement the same? The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. (b) the number of Lower Division Chavan): (a) Not yet, Sir. Clerk; in the Army Ordnance Corps who were drawing maximum of the (b) and (c). The matter is under scale as on the 31st December, 1964; the consideration of Government and efforts are being made to expedite a decision. (c) the number of L.D.Cs who are lik ely to reach the maximum of the v rrm ff * t o grade during the next three years: and : (d) the average length of service 2174. y sft 5 ** : put in by the staff referred to in (b) and (c) above? L sffarc aK*r : The Minister of Defence (Shri Y B. TOT 5rfTOTT ^ ^ Chavan): (a) 3909. * f^T f¥ : (b) 2595. (^ ) WT I f% (c) 318. % «TfrT ^ XT3Tc£T STRTg- (d) The information is being collect­ ^■^T-rf ? T^TT t ed and will be laid on the table o t VPT f ; the House.

( ^ ) ^TT | % L.D.Cs. in Ordnance Corps 2176. Shri Heda: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state: t ; (a) whether it is a fact that a ('T') f t , flft TOT STC+K majority of the Lower Division Clerks in the Ordnance Corps retire as Lower Division Clerks even after rendering | ? 30 years of service; and

SlfaTSTT («ft (b) if so, the manner in w h ich Government propose to remedy the : .(* ) ^nsrrcfr f % *p t*tr: srrctfto t t ^ t situation? 50 Tm The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. ^ f^pr % 24 Chavan): (a) and (b). Information on ^n^TT 5Tlcd f, ^ftr 102 ^Nr zjfw?r thi- subject is not available and is being collected. However, as a large VTTffar Terr ^ |f number of Lower Division Clerks have % 70 *TT^TT 5TT^T f I reached the maximum for quite some time, it has been decided to upgrade (V ) 1 400 posts of Lower Division Clerks to (it)

f Shri Hukam Chand Name of the When How Source of j Kachhavaiya: Canteen estab­ much investment lished money 2177. 'i Shri Onkar Lai Berwa: invested Shri Bade: Rs. Will the Minister of Defence be I. North 1948 9,000 Rs. 7,500 as pleased to state: Block Grant and Snacks Rs. 1,500 (a) whether it is a fact that a Canteen as Loan sanctioned mechanic of the Indian Air Force was by the killed by a propeller at Santa Cruz Govern­ Air Port on the 12th January, 1965; ment of and India. 2 / Full Meal 1950 ") There were no sepa- (b) if so, the details of the accident? ~ Canteen 1 rate investments North Blcck 1 for these canteens j as they are bran­ The Depnty Minister in the Minis­ 3. P. Block 1961 s' ches of the first try of Defence (Dr. D. S. Raju): (a) Canteen I canteen. A mechanic, who was an employee 4. D. G. E& 1962 of Air India, was hit by the propeller T Canteen of an I.A.F. aircraft at Santa Cruz j Airport on the 12th January, 1965 (b) The canteens are run on a ‘no­ and died of the injuries. profit no-loss” basis but a small (b) A Court of Inquiry has been safety margin of profit is taken into constituted to investigate the acci­ consideration when fixing prices of dent. Full details will be known foodstuffs sold. when the report of the Court of In­ (c) The figures of annual profit and quiry is received. loss of the canteens from 1960-61 are given below: Labour Ministry Canteen 1960-61 (April to March) Rs. 2,2066 • 98 Loss f Shri Hukam Chand 1961-62 Do. . Rs. 7,071*57 Loss 2178. ^ Kachhavaiya: 1962-63 Do. . Rs. 4,944 98 Profit Shri Bade: 1963-64 Do. Rs. 13,654 37 Profit Will the Minister of Labour and 1964-65 The final accounts have still not Employment be pleased to state: been compiled. Indo-Pakistan Inquiry Meeting (a) when the canteen run by his Ministry was established and how much money was invested and from f Shri D. C. Sharma: which source; j Shri Rameshwar Tantia: (b) whether the canteen is being 3179. ^ Shri Kapur Singh: run on no-profit no-loss basis; and | Shri P. K. Deo: ^ Shri Narasimha Reddy: (c) if not, the amount of profits earned by the canteen annually since Will the Minister of External Affairs it was established? be pleased to state: (a) whether a Wing Commander The Minister of Labour an «1 Em­ representing Pakistan suddenly left ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) a joint Indo-Pakistan inquiry meeting There are four Departmental canteens held recently in Pakistan to inquire Under the Ministry of Labour & Em- into the Indian allegation of shooting flloyment. Information in respect of and kidnapping of an Indian Police­ 8925 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written Answers 8926

man by Pakistanis on the 12th Octo­ interest to indicate the period needed ber, 1964 as the statements of the wit­ to complete this programme. nesses examined completely went against Pakistan; (b) whether the Tripura Govern­ ment have protested to the East Pakistan Government against the 1 sffoK : manner in which the said officer left the meeting; and (c) if so, the nature of reply re­ ^TT TfciFirc ■Htf) ^ ceived; if any? 5RTT% f>*TT °FXTT I The Minister of External Affairs (**) WT ^ | fc 19 (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) The Paki­ stani Wing Commander abruptly broke uFRXt, 1965 m m 150 *nT- off the joint inquiry during the course of the examination of the first witness produced by him, when he found that cross-examination of the witness f e n ; would bring out the truth and expose the falsity of the case presented by ( ^ ) |t, eft w ^ w the East Pakistan authorities. f ; *rk (b) Yes, Sir. (*r) w $ *k + k % (c) The East Pakistan Government denied the facts and made baseless allegations against the Indian repre­ srfa: t Nhtr sentative at the joint inquiry. # 3fN«n) : ( ^ ) (*r) : fprrfr Automatic Weapons 2180. Shri M. R. Krishna: Will the Tvfti srrer f f | f% 18 spm t, Minister of Defence be pleased to 1965 ^f^TEFTt % state: I % ^ 5 (a) whether Government have de­ szrf^nft ferr cided to discard stenguns for the use of defence forces and to replace them fewR ^ feT 1 with automatic and semi-automatic | 1 weapons; and Postal Circle for Jammu & Kashmir (b) the time required to completely equip the forces with automatic and semi-automatic weapons? Subodh Hansda: Z ^ Shri S. C. Samanta: The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): (a) The Carbine Machine Sten is an automatic weapon. This Will the Minister of Communica­ is, however, being replaced by the tions be pleased to state: indigenously produced SAP Carbine (a) whether the proposal to create which is superior to the Carbine a separate postal circle for Jammu & Machine Sten. Kashmir has been accepted; (b) Troops have already been is­ (b) whether the new Jammu & sued with Semi-Automatic Rifles; and Kashmir circle will be economically a phased re-equipment programme is viable according to new proposition; being undertaken. It is not in public and 8927 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8928

(c) if not, the maimer in which the (c) A statement showing the cause- deficit will be made up? wise classifications of accidents is laid on the Table of the House. [Placed The Deputy Minister in the Depart­ in Libraryf see No. LT-4182/65]. ment of Communications (Shri Bhaga- vati): (a) The matter is still under (d) Under Section 23(2) of the consideration. Mines Act, an enquiry is required to be made into all accidents causing (b) The justification for a P & T. loss of life. Major serious accidents Circle is established mainly on admi­ not involving loss of life are also en­ nistrative grounds. The question of quired into. Responsibility is fixed economic viability is judged for the in all causes where enquiry is made. Department os a whole. (c) Does not arise. Rehabilitation of Wounded Soldiers

Accidents in Coal Mines 2184 / Shri IfcHnacbandra Ulaka: * ^ Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: Shri Prabhat Kar: Will the Minister of Defence be Shri Indrajit Gupta: pleased to state the total number of 2183. Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: soldiers wounded recently who have i Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: been admitted in various occupational Shri Mohammad Elias: therapy centres for training and re­ Will the Minister of Labour and habilitation and for whom grants have Employment be pleased to state: been given by the Central Govern­ ment? (a) the number of serious accidents that took place in various coal mines Hie Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. in India during 1962, 1963 and 1964 Chavan): 30 disabled soldiers are resulting in the loss of limbs and undergoing vocational and technical deaths; training in Queen Mary's Technical School, Kirkee and various Industrial (b) the names of those collieries; Training Institutes with a view to (c) the causes of the accidents; and improving their chances for securing gainful employment under a scheme (d) whether the responsibility for sanctioned by Government. All these the accidents has been fixed? soldiers are getting stipends out of the grants received from the National The Minister of Labour and Em­ Defence Fund. ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) The number of fatal and serious acci­ 2 disabled soldiers are undergoing dents in Collieries during 1962, 1963 training at the Occupational Therapy and 1964 were as follows: Sheltered Workshop, 4, Rouse Avenue Lane, New Delhi, under their own Year No. of No. of arrangements. fatal ac~ serious ac­ cidents cidents Special Postal Stamps 1962 . 229 3.125 1963 • 223 2,443 • 1,889 f Shri Yashpal Singh: 1964 ™ 163 (Provi- (Provi­ J Shri Kapur Singh: sional) sional) 2185. Shri Ram Harkh Yadav: j^Shri Narendra Singh Mahida: (b) The accidents relate to a, majo­ rity of coal mines in the country Will the Minister of Communica­ which number over 850. tions be pleased to state: ^$929 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Written Answers 8930

(a) whether Government propose ( 3 ) sffa (^rr tot) to is=ue a spscral postal stamp of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel to comme­ 1963-64%?Rnhr 3,08,171. 23 morate the memory; and 1964-65 % SF^FT^T 3,20,536.97 (b) if not, the reasons therefor? The Deputy Minister in the Depart­ ( 4) TOR WT TOT ment of Communications (Shri Bhaga- Vati): (a) Yes, Sir. 1963-64 %SPrFfa 6 ,0 6,6 0 8 .3 8 1964-65 % SRpfcr 6,31,455. 64 (b) Does not arise. (€T) ?ftr (*r). 1961-62 % «F5rhr snro frft, vthtt «Rpfcr toct

The Minister of External Affairs Ex-Servicemen for the benefit of ex­ (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) to (c). The servicemen, and their dependents. information is being collected and The fund is being constituted with will be placed on the Table of the an initial contribution of Rs. 5 crores House as soon as it is available. from the National Defence Fund and an initial contribution of Rs. 1 crore Passports for UJL from the Central Government. 80 per cent out of the contribution from f Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: the National Defence Fund will be ^ Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: distributed to the States on the basis of the number of recruits to the Will the Minister of External Armed Forces from each State as on Affairs be pleased to state: 1st of January. 80 per cent of the (a) the number of passports issued contribution from the Central Govern­ for U.K. during the last four months; ment will also be distributed to the States on the same basis but subject (b) the number of applications re­ to the condition that no State shall ceived and the number entertained be entitled to its share unless it has during the same period; and also made an equal contribution to the Fund. The remaining 20 per cent (c) the number of applications re­ out of the contribution from the jected during the same period? National Defence Fund and from the The Minister of External Affairs Central Government will be kept as (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) 5,534 pass­ a Central reserve. The fund is ex­ ports were issued for travel to U.K. pected to start functioning soon. For during the period from November 1, the time being, it is proposed that 1964 to February 28, 1965. the Central Government will make contributions to the Fund for three (b) 8,393. successive years beginning from 1965­ 66 during which the initial contribu­ (c) 309. tion will be made. Further details Welfare Fund for Servicemen are still under consideration of Gov­ ernment. |" Shri Sutrodh Hansda: ^ fa * STPPTtffrft ^ tftSTR J S*115 s c - Samanta: 2189. ^ Shr. M L Dwivedi: |^Dr. Mahadeva Prasad: 2190. 3To smre : Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state: ft> I (a) whether Government propose (fr) TO ^ t ft» STRmTT- to set up we.fare fund for servicemen; srnnY ^ sftr ^ ftrerr (b) if so, when; % fa* wNrcr sraifar ft^ *tt% f ; (c) the manner in which the funds will be raised; and (w ) irfc tstNkt (d) in what way tlie funds are pro­ posed to be utilised? (17) t o ^ The Minister t>f Defence (Shri Y. f w | ? B. Chavan): (a) to (d). The Govern­ ment have decided to set up a new ^ bPTT STTTT1! (sfttfcfr' fund, called the Special Fund for Re­ construction and Rehabilitation of iferx : ( * ) I B9 33 Written A n g ers CHATTRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written A n ^er* 8934

Shifting of PJkf.G’s Office ) 31 1964 3 *

28,228 I f Shri Parashar: 2193. "^shrimati Johraben Chavda: Will the Minister of Communica­ (*T) ^ft, f>T I ^dF T t it tions be pleased to state: *rt ^ stpt^ ^ (a) the progress made so far in the fa*ft | fa ^ f f *fT% % shifting of the office of the Post 3RET $ "RT Vf5?H W | ^ FP^ft Master-General, Central Circle to f e r srenr % v iflw ^Tf^t i Bhopal; and f w r fa r prefer ^rpfhr (b) w h en it is lik ely to start work Vfg^TfTTf ^ 4 ia-*tcT q&t *TRft I ? there? The Deputy Minister in the De­ partment of Communications (Shri Haj Pilgrims Bhagavati): (a) The difficulty which 19 holding up the shifting of the office 2191. Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: of the P.M.G. from Nagpur to Bhopal Will the Minister of External Affairs is the want of suitable accommoda­ be pleased to state: tion to house the office, as also the (a) the total number of Haj Pil­ staff of the P.M.G’s office. The matter grims who have been given passports has already been taken up personally for the pilgrimage during 1965 so with the Chief Minister of Madhya far; and Pradesh who has promised all possi­ ble assistance in securing the requir­ (b) the facilities provided to them? ed accommodation at Bhopal. Efforts are also being made to secure the The Minister of External Affairs necessary accommodation on rent from (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) and (b). A private parties. statement is laid on the Table of the ance. [Placed, in Libraryt see No, (b) The office of the P.M.G. Central LT-4183/65]. Circle will start functioning from Bhopal as soon as suitable accommo­ National Defence Fund dation is secured. 2192. Shri Parashar: Will the Prime Teleprinter Service Minister be pleased to state: 2194. Shri M. S. Murti: Will the Minister of Communications be pleas­ (a) the number of officials and non­ officials against whom action has been ed to state: taken for defalcation of the National (a) whether teleprinter service has Defence Fund; been introduced in all the combined (b) the nature of the action taken; offices of the Posts and Telegraphs Department in Andhra Circle; (c) the quantum of money involved (b) if so, the names of the places therein; and where this service has been introduc­ (d) the number of cases which are ed; and still pending for enquiry? (c) if not, when it is likely to be The Prime Minister and Minister of introduced? Atomic Energy (Shri Lai Bahadur The D*nuty Minister In the Depart­ Shastri): (a) to (d). The information ment of Communications (Shn Bhaga­ is being collected and will be laid on vati): fa) So far introduced in one the Table of the House. combined office. 8935 Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8936

(b ) Tirupati. tions Machinery are trying to persuade the defaulting employers to implement (c) Teleprinter service in other the Wage Board’s recommendations. combined ofuces wil' be introduced when the number of telegrams hand­ Marmagoa Strike led by them reaches the prescribe 5 standard and adequate number of 2197. Shri Indrajit Gupta: Will the Teleprinter machines are available. Minister of Labour and Employment be pleased to state: Commonwealth Prime Ministers’ Conference (a) whether it is a fact that after the recent strike in Marmagoa Har­ bour, a large number of Dock workers r /S h r i Kolia Venkaiah: have been dismissed from regular ser­ Z 95, \ Shri M. N. Swamy: vice by the stevedore companies; Will the Minister of External (b) if so, Government’s reaction Affairs be pleased to state: thereto; and (a) whether a conference of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers will (c) when it is proposed to establish "be held in June; and a Dock Labour Board for Goa? (b) if so, whether any points for in­ The Minister of Labour and Em­ clusion in the agenda have been sug­ ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) gested by our Government? After the commencement of the strike, the workmen were individually ap­ The Minister of External Affairs proached by their employers and (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) Yes, Sir. advised to resume work as the strike (b) The agenda of the Conference was unprovoked and illegal and con­ is yet to be decided. Further, the stituted a breach of settlement signed subjects to be discussed are not given between the workers and the emplo­ any publicity as they are of a con­ yers. As the workers failed to turn fidential nature. up for duty in spite of this request, their names were struck off the mus­ Interim Relief to Iron-ore Workers in ter-roll by the employers. Goa The strike affected gangmen, barge­ 2196. Shri Indrajit Gupta: Will the men, and winchmen. After the strike Minister of Labour and Employment was called off, the gangmen were al­ be pleased to state: lowed to work as casual workers and the question of making them perma­ (a) whether it is a fact that several nent is under negotiation. leading iron-ore mine-owners of Goa have not yet implemented the recom­ In the case of Mechanical Ore mendation of the Central Wage Board Handling Plant of Messrs Chowgule regarding Interim Relief; and Co. all the workmen other than 8 (b) whether the mine workers have have resumed work and in the case of threatened to go on a general strike bargemen of this Company, excepting as a protest; and 15, all others have resumed work. The Marmagoa Port. Dock and Trans­ (c) the steps Government propose port Workers’ Union proposed to un­ to t^ke to bring the recalcitrant em­ dertake direct negotiations with the ployers in line? Company in regard to the workmen who had not been allowed to resume The Minister of Labour and Em­ work. ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) and (b). Yes. As regards winchmen, in order to (c) The Government of Goa and the carry on the work Unin+emipt?d officers of the Central Industrial Rela­ during the strike, the Marmagoa -*937 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Written Answers 893 S

Stevedores Association formed a pool own mother tongue. For such re­ of winchmen. As such, after the cruits, a knowledge of Hindi will be strike, the Stevedores were not able easier to acquire than a knowledge of to take back their respective workers English for the purposes of passing on their muster-rolls. The workers the prescribed examinations. For this concerned were, however, requested to reason, no change in the existing sys­ join the pool. About 650 winchmen tem is proposed. registered themselves in the pool; they are working as casual workers New Sainik Schools and the question of payment of com­ pensation for their past services is f Shri A. V. Raghavan: under the consideration of the appro­ J Shri Pottekkatt: priate authority. 2199. | Shri Yudhvir Singh: L Shri Onkar Lai Berwa: (b) Government is looking into the legitimate grievances of the workmen. Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state: (c) The Dock Labour Board Scheme is proposed to be inaugurated on (a) whether there is any proposal 21-4-1965. to establish new Sainik Schools during 1965-66; and Examination for Promotion In Army (b) if so, where and when they will of AO J" Shri A. V. Raghavan: be started? \ Shri Pottekkatt: The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ Will the Minister of Defence be try of Defence (Dr. D. S. Raju): (a) pleased to state: and (b). A Sainik School is likely to be set up at Ghorakhal near Naini- (a) whether the basic examinations tal in the Uttar Pradesh State in the for purposes of promotion of other course of 1965-66. Ranks in the Army, Examinations for 3rd, 2nd and 1st Class Cerfificates of Indian Frontier Administrative Education are held in Hindi only; . Service

(b) if so, whether Government are 2200. Dr. Chandrabhan Singh: Will aware of the difficulties of non-Hindi Ihe Minister of External Affairs be speaking jawans in passing these exa­ pleased to state: minations; and (a) the system of recruitment and training of the Indian Frontier Admi­ (c) whether there is any proposal to nistrative Service officers; carry out the pledge of late Shri Nehru and allow other ranks to take (b) whether there is any scheme their examinations in English? to recruit them by open competition like I.AS. and I.F.S.; and The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. ■Chavan): (a) Yes, Sir. These exami­ (c) the total number of officers in nations have been held in Hindi since I.F.A.S. at the end of 1962-63 and 1947. 1964?

(b) No difficulty has been reported The Minister of External Affairs in passing these examinations by the (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) Recruitment non-Hindi speaking jawans. to the service has so far beien made On the recommendations of a Special (c) The educational attainments of Selection Board constituted for the most recruits at the time of enrolment purpose. Recruitment was mostly fire low, and most of them do not from amonest serving officers. They know any other language besides their were imparted the usual training at Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8940 the National Academy of Administra­ 'HRdk ^TRTE ^RTER % m w r tion followed by district training in spV^TRrl’ «ft I ^TFT ^T Revenue, Judicial and Administrative fields. 1956 H 3TCFT 5FTT «TT I 14 (b) It has been decided to make all 1959 ^ ^ T future recruitment to the service jttt^ «ft, ftrcfa farq fa 3% WT through the U.P.S.C. ^r & srrdfa w r *n; £mr (c) 72, 74 and 76 respectively. T^*rr qw r «tt i

Display of Military Costumes

Jsft qo HT<> «ny*H • 2203. Shri M. Malaichami: Will tftg 2201‘ WHEft : Minister of Defence be pleased to apn *NlT ^ ^ state: *11 (a) whether there is any proposal to display the military costumes of all the warrior classes in the country from the very early historic days sm 3rr& W ^ fore during the Republic Day Celebrations f^ fr ^1 «<.+k ^ rqT,l< in the Capital; and I ? (b) if so, whether any compilation of tlhe warrior classes in the country P w w * («ft has been made?

v r a f i ) •• The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. ^ n r e t fSrfr * f & t ^ * * * Chavan): (a) In the Republic Day fs Parade to be held in the Union Capital in 1966, it is proposed to include a dis­ ^ *TJTt trrefri play of period military costumes of fezn ^TTQTTT I India as was done in 1965. For this purpose a few periods, including those of ancient India, will be chosen. Hura ^ fa*51 ^ The emphasis will be on different periods, not on different warrior clas­ j Tspn*i ftf? ; ses. In any case the selection cannot 2202'^ m «ft*nr : be exhaustive.

Ttr *N" ^ ^ (b) Ministry of Defence will make 13 * * * an effort to compile a list of various I, s m t w * * * period uniforms with the help of the ^n^nf^mrot^pr isi6 % w w Historical Section.

I ? Land for Jawans r Shri Yudhvir Sinffh: ifrn ^ Shri Bade: 1965 % ftW» * *"* Will the Minister of Defence be t m m t * m \ pleased to state the number of States which have drawn up the schemes to 8941 Written Answers CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Written Answers 8942.

give land for Jawans or their families (3) increase in emoluments. who fought on the border during the (d) In April, 1964, the Delhi Admi­ Chinese aggression and the details of nistration set up an Enquiry Commit­ the schemes State-wise? tee, consisting of Shri E. Krishnamur­ The Minister of Defende (Shri Y. B. thi, previously Presiding Officer of the Chavan): A statement showing States Delhi Industrial Tribunal, to go into who have offered/reserved land for the demands of the tailors. The Com­ Defence Services personnel and their mittee gave an ex-parte decision as families, including Jawans who fought the employers did not co-operate with at the border during the Chinese ag­ the Committee. The employers Asso­ gression, is laid on the Table of the ciation also filed writ petitions before House. \Placed in Library, see No. the Punjab High Court, against the LT-4183/65]. We have written to the appointment of the Enquiry Commit­ State Governments/Union Territories tee which is still pending. In spite of to supply details of any plans which all efforts, it has not been possible to have been or will be formulated by bring about an amicable settlement them in regard to the resettlement of The Delhi Administration is examin­ ex-Servicemen and their dependents ing further steps to be taken in the on lands which have been reserved/ matter. offered by them. Replies from them are awaited. U.S. War College Team In India f Shri M. N. Swamy: Demonstration by Tailors 2206. J Shri Kolia Venkaiah: f Shri Yudhvir Singh: t Shri R. S. Pand?y: 2205. ^ Shri Yashpai Singh: Will the Minister of Defence be [_ Shri Kapur Singh: pleased to state: Will the Minister of Labour and Employment be pleased to state: (a) whether a party of 36 officers from the National War College of the (a) whether it is a fact that tailors U.S.A. has arrived in India; of Delhi demonstrated before Parlia­ (b) whether this party arrived at ment House on the 24th March, 1965; our invitation and initiative; (b) if so, whether they had present­ (c) the specific purpose of their ed any charter of demands to the visit; Prime Minister; (d) the subjects discussed with this (c) if so, their main demands; and team; and (d) the action taken by Govern­ (e) whether any joint discussions ment to meet their demands? were held both with the U.S.A. and Canadian military officers? The Minister of Labour and Em­ ployment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ Yes. try of Defence (Dr. D. S. Raju^: fa) (b) No. and (c). A party of 36. consisting of Directing Staff and student-officers of (c) The demands of tailors are re­ ported to be— the National War Coll°pe of the U.S.A. visited India from 25th March (1 ) implementation of the recom­ to 29th March 1965. mendations of Krishnamurthi En­ quiry Committee; Such parties from Defence Colleges (2) grant of benefits of leave, visit various countries every year to holidays etc., under labour laws; enable student-officers to broad 3n and their outlook. While India is includ­ Written Answers APRIL 12, 1965 Written Answers 8944 ed in the itinerary of the National explosion in a fireworks factory at War College of the U.S.A., the National Kavasseri in Kerala State on the 26th Defence College of Canada, the Im­ March, 1965; and perial Defence College of the U.K. and (b) if so, the cause of the explo­ the National Defence College of Thai­ sion? land, teams from our National De­ fence College have also been visiting The Minister of Labour and Employ­ neighbouring countries. ment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) Yes. Six persons were killed in the explo­ sion. (b) No, Sir. (b) It has been reported that the (d) No official discussions were manufacture of fireworks in a farm­ held, but their questions were infor­ house in Kavasseri was being carried mally answered. on in contravention of the Explosives Rules, 1940. The contractor had no (e) No, Sir. licence to manufacture fireworks at this place. The building was not suit­ Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia ed for the purpose. Samples collected from the scene at the time of investi­ r Shri M. N. Swamy: gation indicated that Chlorate was 2207. Shri P. C. Borcoah: being used in the manufacture of some ^ Shri Kolia Venkaiah: of these items. It is likely that the Will the Minister of External disaster took place while the sensi­ tive prohibited mixture of potassium Affairs be pleased to state: chlorate and sulphur with aluminium (a) whether the Malaysian Deputy powder was being handled in the Prime Minister visited India recently; farm house. and Workers’ Wages at Alleppey Port (b) if so, the purpose of his visit and the result of the discussions held f Shri Vasndevan Nair: with him? 2209. ^ ghri warior: The Minister of External Affairs Will the Minister of Labour and (Shri Swaran Singh): (a) Yes, Sir. Employment be pleased to state: (b) The Deputy Prime Minister was (a) whether it is a fact that the really on his way to some Afro-Asian contractors for unloading of food- countries. He, however, stopped in grains at Alleppey Port. Kerala State Delhi for two days and had talks with have refused to pay the increased the Prime Minister and others. The rates of wages to the workers as re­ talks were very friendly. The Deputy commended by the Labour Tribunal; Prime Minister expressed his views and about Indonesia’s confrontation with Malaysia. It is well known that we (b) the steps Government are have very cordial relations with taking to see that the recommenda­ Malaysia. tions of the Tribunal are implemented without delay? Explosion in Kerala The Minister of Labour and Employ­ ment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): (a) and 220*. Shri Raffhnnath Singh: Will (b) Alleppey Port is a minor port, the Minister of l^abonr and Employ­ and the Government of Kerala is the ment be pleased to State: appropriate Government under the whether it is a fact that five Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, for this persons were killed as a result of an port. As information is not available, 8945 Written Answers CHATERA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Border violation* 3946. by East Pakistan Rifles (C.A.) the same is being obtained from the power tripping. Special measures State Government. have also been taken to detect and locate the faults early for quick recti­ Aid for Earthquake Victims in Chile fications. 2210. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Airmen’s Barracks at Tambaram, Minister of External Affairs be pleas­ Madras ed to state the aid, if any, to be given for the relief of the recent earthquake 2213. Shri Hart Vishnu Kamath: victims in Chile, in which over 600 Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state: persons were feared dead? The Minister of External Affairs (a) whether it is a fact that Gov­ (Shri Swaran Singh): Medical sup­ ernment decided sometime ago to plies are being sent by the Govern­ build airmen’s barracks at Tambaram ment of India. (Madras) on an emergency basi 3; (b) whether the work of construc­ Delhi-Caloutta Telex and Teleprinter tion was entrusted to a contractor; Services (c) whether the contractor was ask­ 2212. Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the ed to complete the work in six Minister of Communications be pleas­ months; ed to state: (d) whether the work is woefully (a) whether it is a fact that the lagging behind schedule and the rea­ Delhi-Calcutta telex and teleprinter sons therefor; and services broke down a number of times since the beginning of this year; (e) the action taken in the matter7 (b) if so, the number of times upto The Deputy Minister in the Minis­ 20th March, 1965 and the total time try of Defence (Dr. D. S. Raju): for which the services remained dis­ (a) The work was ordered by the Air rupted; and Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, Indian Air Force, in exer­ (c) the reasons for such frequent cise of the powers delegated to him. break-downs and the steps taken to (b) and (c). Yes. avoid break-downs in future? (d) and (e). The completion of the The Deputy Minister in the Depart­ work is far behind the prescribed ment of Communications (Shri Bha- schedule. The delay is due tc strikes gravati): (a) and (b). During the by the contractor’s labour and slow period 1st January 1965 to 20th March progress by the contractor himself. 1965, there were sixteen instances Suitable action is being taken against when Delhi-Calcutta telex and tele­ the contractor, under the terms snd printer services were interrupted for conditions of the contract. durations over five minutes each time. The total time for which these services were disrupted was 10 hours 21 minutes. 12.22 hrs. (c) The interruptions were due to CALLING ATTENTION TO MATTER a number of causes like power trip­ OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE ping on the cable, equipment failure Firing and intrusion into Indian ter­ and damage to cable by working ritory by East Pakistan Rifles uf parties of other administrations, like Cachar district of Assam P.W.D. and Electricity authorities. aft §*>* t o (^TCT) : Special technical modifications are being made to the equipment to avoid Border violations APRIL 12, 1965 by East Pakistan 8948 Rifles (C.A.)

[*$[ fTTT ^ T ^ T ir] side the Indian portion of village. I P w i sftr ^ ^rnr need hardly add that all this activity pMidi ^ ^fVr ^T^'TT + i < f^ r ^ 2 the Sector Commander and later by ^nftvRTi^T TTTTJ^T £TTT the State Government. Our Sector Tfmwfr cT^T HRcfk Commander had asked his Pakistani counter-part to remove East Pakistani sr£ppfp*r 1 * Rifles Units from Govindpur village, their presence hampering talks on the The Minister of State in the Minis­ civil dispute. Though a cease-fire try of Home Affairs (Shri HatM): was arranged from 4 O’Clock on the Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the House is 9th April, firing actually stopped only aware, Pakistan has recently started at 3.00 a.m. on the 10th. The East trouble in the Cachar District of Pakistan Rifles Units have withdrawn Assam in and around Govindpur vil­ from Govindpur on the night of 10th lage. This village is approximately 6 and 11th April. Indian nationals miles west of Karimganj. The inter­ have now returned to their homes in national boundary runs through this Govindpur village (Indian portion). village. The boundary is well mark­ The Sector Commander was to meet ed and a number of houses are clear­ his counterpart today morning and a ly on our side. report of the meeting is awaited.

On the 28th March 1965 under the jp^RT tF? W&FTV : # ^ STRUTT protection of the East Pakistan Rifles they tried to plough a plot of land on i far ftpr our side of the boundary. A protest MlftM TlW f % f e n t % 2T# lodged by our border post Commander ^ ff**T had no effect. Instead within the next few days Units of the East ^sraTsrforr? Pakistan Rifles began massing in sig­ ^ din nificant numbers in the area. 3TT ^ 1% '3T3' '5T3’ ^ On receipt of these reports a Patrol TRT ^ eft of our Border Security Force, con­ % f^iT | ? ft, Mr. Speaker: Have these activities possible into the chests of the Pakis­ increased since the visit of the Chinese tani soldiers disturbing our frontier leaders to Pakistan? by fire-arms, no matter what our Shri Hathi: Whether it has increas­ generous Prime Minister thinks or says? ed after the particular event or not is a different matter, but we have been Shri Hathi: The tactics appears to seeing various acts which Pakistan be like that, and we shall have to be has indulged in recently. ready and use all necessary force, if necessary, to reply to their aggres­ Shri P. K. Deo: My further ques­ sion. tion has not been replied, namely whether Pakistan’s suggestion of fur­ Shri Hem Barua: He has not replied ther talks is to gain more time to to my question which was specific. consolidate their position.

Mr. Speaker: That much should be The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri enough. Nanda): It appears very obvious that there has been an increase in the offensive tempo, and it may also be Shri N. C. Chatter jee (Burdwan): that they may be taking time for the May I know if Govindpur village is purpose of strengthening their posi­ only 18 kms. from the town of Karim- tions here and there. We are quite ganj and that was occupied by Pakis­ alive to the situation, and we will do tani forces? Have they been driven our best in this matter. out? What steps have been taken to­ wards that end? Shri Daji (Indore): What is the maximum extent of the depth of Shri Hathi: They have withdravn. Pakistani intrusion into Indian terri­ tory? In view of the recent deve­ lopment in which they are coming Shri P. K. Deo (Kalahandi): This more and more into our territory, morning’s report which has appeared does not the sum total of their actions in the Indian Express is very distress­ amount a grave provocation to us, ing. The PTI news from Gauhati to says that Pakistan is busy massing to something more than more border depredation? her troops; trenches have been dug, bunkers constructed and jungles clear­ Shri Nanda: What the hon. Member ed to facilitate quick movement for says has to be taken notice of by the Pakistani troops; lastly, the border Government and everybody in the villages have been cleared of non- country, the sinistemess that there is Muslim population and bhatiyas, de­ now. It is not a question of words. portees from India, have been settled It is a question of our preparation, there. In view of this development, and that is there. Of course, they may I know whether these sinister have penetrated in the Kutch area and aggressive designs and activities about 1,500 yards, it may be different have gathered momentum since the at different places. visit of Marshal Chen-yi and Mr. Chou En-lai to Pakistan? Number Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know two___ whether the attention of the non. 8951 Border violations APRIL 12, 1965 by East Pakistan 8952 Rifles (CJL.) [Shri S. M. Banerjee] Minister has been drawn to the news Shri Warior (Trichur): May I know item appearing in the Times of India whether the Government has con­ today, namely: sidered the possibility of training and arming the civilian population “Pak Troops Massing on Assam throughout the border and streng­ Border.” thening the hands of the military and the police there? “Pakistan is massing troops and the local militia (Ansars) all Shri Nanda: These steps are being along the 150-mile Goalpara- taken. Dhubri sector of the Assam-East Pakistan border, whPe uneasy Shri Vasndevan Nair (Ambala- peace prevails in the Karimganj puzha): The hon. Minister is unfortu­ sector of the Indo-Pakistan bor­ nately refusing to reply to direct der.” questions. May I know whether the Government is in possession of evi­ I want to know whether it is a fact dence, of facts, that American arms that in Kutch also, when the police are increasingly being used by the pickets were there, they tried to in­ Pakistani troops against us, and if so, trude into our area and occupy a whether Government has taken up checkpost. I would like to know this matter with the US Government? whether after the Kutch eperience, the Government of India will send the The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. army to all those places, where con­ Chavan): May I intervene? The ques­ stant firing is going on even after tion that is being answered is about ceasefire by Pakistan, to protect them. the Cooch Behar sector. We have no evidence about the use of Ameri­ can equipment on that particular sec­ Shri Nanda: The disposition of our tor, but certainly we have got evi­ armies will be having in view the dence about the use of American importance of every place and the equipment on the Kashmir cease-lire necessity of giving full protection and line and also on the Kutch border. full defence. I cannot give the de­ tails. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty (Bar- Mr. Speaker: That suggestion would rackpore): What about the West Ben­ also be considered by them. gal-East Pakistan border? Mortars have been used.

t (*fmr) : srrccT Shri Y. B. Chavan: We have no evi­ dence about that.

t ^ fo r Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: The West Bengal Grovernment has already sfhc srrsrret informed you and given you details Mqj *H'I ^ eft "Wl of the markings on the mortars. *hIC sfr HlPt>ttfM Shri Vasndevan Nair: I wanted to fWT *RT ^ ^ pH PitdCl know whether Government has taken up the matter with the US Govern­ ment. ^ ?

Shri Nanda: We have suggested Shri N. C. Chatterjee: Has the atten­ meetings at both levels, official and tion of the American Government ministerial. been drawn to it? # 8953 Border violations CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) by East Pakistan 8954 Rifles (C.AJ 4 Shri Y. B. Chavan: Yes, I think we have done it. iil^ ^ To f I ^ Hl=|d g f «ft zreiMTH fa f ( ? M ) : W ^f w ^ff ^ fa ft ft to t, fenr ^t Shri Bade: My name is there. tft ^T^TT I *ftx xm # * ft WRRTT Mr. Speaker: Have I denied that? & 1 Shri Ranga (Chittoor): It may come later. «ft fa*kM 1 ^ ^ f a t ^^<|d fa^nr 'jttsrtt %n< Shri Nanda: Same question. As is '3,?fat s fa T’sn ^nrwr rft ^ f ?r> evidenced by the statement made, ac­ tion has been taken -----(Interrup­ ^pff fam w r ? tions) and the very fact that we have 219(Ai) LSD—4. 8955 Border violations APRIL 12, 1965 by East Pakistan 8956 Rifles (C.A.) [Shri Nanda] got back to that place shows that we have not been negligent in our duties. sft srRifr (f^rn:) : siwer w ^ i q r aft ^t I, ^r% Shri N. R. Laskar: They are living under bullets. This is also a fact. ^ tT^r tft «nrf ^mrfY |1 ^ ^mrNrr Wcmfe fpnr f*ra- Shri P. C. Borooah (Sibsagar): Is it not a fact that Pakistan is taking ad­ ^ *r sra r ^ w t | vantage of the non-demarcation of the ^ | fcn x STHTf+1 ®TT ?ftt border between Pakistan and India to :3H% «r>l <«i Slftr Sf W tt make these intrusions, while, on the other hand, preventing the demarca­ % srfr ^jtt^ ^?r ^ft vJiHdi * ^wr sfftft tion of the boundary on one pretext or ^ I ^«KI % XT^pr ^ I fflTT the other? May I know whether the 1 % ^TT^TTT ^nRTT, TTqfo International Court of Justice has ■cTIhoI, ^f^TV’TT, been approached for the demarcation of the boundary between India and % ^«T SRrT ^T, ^«*r+ Pakistan? qr mf^nn «fV1 The Minister of External Affairs ^rr h t+ t i w f t vft (Shri Swaran Singh): Steps are being ? taken to demarcate the boundary where it still remains undemarcated, Shri Nanda: It has already been but in this particular area, that is answered by the Defence Minister Govindpur, this is demarcated area with reference to another question and the trouble takes place although about American arms. The feelings there was demarcation. that were expressed by the non. Mem­ ber—they are all right. a f : q r f^ r R ^ gfarmt qr <5«hi ^ mRhhY m w m qr ^<^11 w foTT f ?Tfr | far JlHl <1 VMIW : iTT^fhT % ^ | cjt 1*1 ^ qf^RT "33ITT, ?r ^ ?n w r ^ tt rTT^T^ q,% WT^rPlY ?t | w fh r ^RTT I ^ TTR^fttT f eft wwr w r *fr Ttrf ^fhm ff % ^TT | I ^ t srk qfWft TT ’Tf^RT d *sf\ iTT*Tft: ^TfcT Wp f^ R T T > % 5?? ^ ffasnrr % «ricT ^ 1 f^RT s % t ^TRTT ^TT T?T TT^ ^rrft f ? rTTTF ^TRrT TT ^ftf^PTt 5ftr sffc I ^TfTT 'aT^I 5 ^ ^ ^ ^rfwn: fvd^lVKd ^TCT, £T*Tt, ^f^RT aFTT fclT 3TT%*TT eft ^ #qTT ^TT ? srtr s w f t fafsreft 3?t *ft ^ + 1 f w itt inaro : m^ftir ^ t o t w *t ^^^1 ?TRTt^T ?rtr ^PTt ^TT, ^ft ^TTST 3v^B> % «TT^ ^TT f+i| | ^ | ^ Id »T^t ^*TT I ^TTrft f I 8957 Border violations CHAITRA 22. 1887 ( SAKA) Leave of Absence 8958 by East Pakistan Rifles (C.A.) 1*T% tTcTT tT^TT, ^ gfa*T STt# =F^3> % % «TT^ ^ r *\i I *Tfte*r ^ 3 ^ ^rr Shri Solanki (Kaira): Just now the ^rnrr ^tt sffr hon. Home Minister mentioned that t o w ^ % ^rf^r ^cTRT | there are some grounds to continue the talks between the Homo Ministers *Tf[ «ti^T ^ < ^rnr of Pakistan and India. Is this conti­ *fsft ^ ^ftrrr % «nt 3r s* nuation of the old talks where we had 5T®?t ^T 3^%TTFT f%3T I # ^WTT ^TpciT left over or is there some fresh move introduced in the talks? f> for W STT^nr ^ ^q- ^rTrfT 1% f^*-|- Shri Hathi: So far as this is concern­ ^tTRY ^r V^T % fa?ft tff Fq^'H WH’ ^FTfe- ed, this is between the officers. 3T SHf^TFfrfes ^ f^T Mr. Speaker: I have to inform the *T ^RT ^ I hon. Members that the Home Minister would make a statement about the *5ft *T*3T : ^f$l rT^i ct>'cW % 3T2T ^T Kutch border at about 5.30 p.m. *£, ^ stoj ^if^< wt fojT t>fw «*&*!*&* 12.45 hrs. 1 5 fk ^ ^^tct % srrt *f ?fr *r*ft srera LEAVE OF ABSENCE FROM fem rrfVirr f i SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE sft fl>5H : 3 ^TPq ^T f^ W Mr. Speaker: The Committee on Absence of Members from the Sit­ ^ ^ T fa K% fsr?f *T tings of the House in their Twelfth m £r | i Report have recommended that leave of absence be granted to the follow­ W*m : q'sft *Tft^T * 3T2TR ing members for the periods indi­ cated against each: T f^TT | I *uh*Tr ^RFT 3T¥ I’S ^TW I (r) ShriN. Aruna- 16th November to Shri Hem Barua: May I seek chalam 24th December, 1964 (Tenth Ses­ clarification, Sir? sion) Mr. Speaker: He had already had (2) Shri Kashi Ram 17th February to 15th Gupta . . April, 1965 (Ele­ once chance. venth Session) (3) Dr. Saradish 17th February to 16th sfr ^ (f^ft-^TM^RT) : Roy April, 1965 (Ele­ venth Session) 5TST % % STT*f if (4) Shri Y. N. 17th February to 24th Singh March, 1965 (Ele­ *FfT 5 srshr *rt $e> *m ff venth Session) ^TRT I t 'jIHiI ^I^dl ^ fe> (5) Shri R. Uma - 17th February to 16th ^fpr m rTO % *rf*r nath April, 1965 (Ele­ venth Session) 5fTT I , eft w r W 5 (6) Shri Biren 17th February u 3rd 'jf Idl 'jft f%Tt^T-T^ ^R'^TT ^RTT I Dutta March. 1965 (Ele­ venth Session) «T> $T«ff : ^TrT eft | (7) Shri Rajendra- 17th February to 15 th nath Barua March. 1965 (Ele­ f I 1 3- ^TR- ^ venth Session) q^r ?ft JTf 3) Shri Laxmi 17th February to 16th Dass April, 1965 (Ele­ ftRfvl flfqd ?FTrft «ft, ^tRuH venth Session) 8959 Leave of APRIL 12, 1965 Absence 8960

[Mr. Speaker] (9) ShriM. Muha- 15th March to 7th Limaye’; then some question num­ mmad Ismail May, 1965 (Ele­ bers are given. I would like to know: venth Session). Shri Madhu Limaye has been sus­ (10) Shri Ananda 17 th February to 16th pended from the service of the House. Nambiar April, 1965 (Ele­ Therefore, perhaps following your venth Session). directions that because he is suspend­ (11) Shri Brij Raj 17th February to 16th ed and he is no longer in the service Singh—Kotah March, 1965 (Ele­ of the House, his name has been venth Session) deleted. Per contra, the names of (12) Shri Paresh 1 8th Feburarv to 17th Shri Gopalan, Dr. Saradish Roy are Nath Kaval April, 1965 (Ele­ there. Their names appear in the venth Session) question list and therefore, ipso facto, (13) Shri A. K.Go- 17th February to 16th they must be deemed to be in the palan April, 1965 (Ele­ service of the House and therefore, venth Session) as the custodian of the rights and pri­ (14) Shri Krishna 22nd March to 20th vileges of the Members of this House, Chandra Pant April, 1965 (Ele­ it is your paramount duty to see'to venth Session) it that they are enabled to serve the (15) ShriBholaram 8th to 30th March, House. In any case all the amenities Paradhi 1965 (Eleventh and facilities available to the other Session). Members must be made available to (16) ShriMadala 17th February to 16th them as they are still in the service Narayana Swamy April, 1965 (Ele­ of the House. venth Session) Shri Khadilkar (Khed): So far as Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hosh- the first question, regarding the angabad): Sir, by your leave, I would name of Shri Madliu Limaye to be like to raise—this is a routine pro­ deleted...... ceeding—two points with regard to the report. The first is not so impor­ Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: The tant; the second is more important. first is about the long illness of Mem­ In the case of long illness, there bers and progress reports. are two members, Shri Kayal and another—I would like that the re­ Shri Khadilkar: Most of them have marks column should state whether come back and so there is no neces­ the Member is progressing satisfac­ sity of making any note. Otherwise, if torily, because we should be assured it is continuing illness of a serious on that account. nature, we shall take note and make recommendations. The second matter, which is far more important, concerns the rights and privileges of the Members of the Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta House. I find that my hon. friend Central): Sir, there are those Mem­ Mr. Gopalan and Dr. Saradish Roy bers who applied for leave of absence had applied for leave because they and got it. There is a considerable are in detention as far back as 17th number of people who are detained February and leave has been granted without trial and they are compul­ to them; I am glad about this, but sorily absent. The fact that some of I am sorry about their continued them have sent in questions to this detention. Questions in their names House and that they appear on the are regularly appearing in the ques­ order Paper and have been duly tion lists that come to us from time answered is a very generous testi­ to time. Now, the corrigendum issued mony to the way in which parlia­ on the 9th April with regard to the mentary system is being sought to question list of the 12th April says: work. My point is this. Now that Melete the name of Shri Madhu we are going elect standing com­ Leave of CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) Absence 8962 mittees of Parliament this matter has others, we continue the practice that perhaps been already conveyed to their names might remain there, and you—some Members of Parliament their names appear probably in the are compulsorily deprived of partici­ unstarred qnestions. pating in the elections to the stand­ ing committees of the House. It also Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Starred involves a matter of principle. I Questions also. understand that in the West Bengal legislative assembly, the Speaker has Mr. Speaker: They might be appear­ directed that in the case of elections ing in the Starred Questions also. I to standing committees, ballot papers have not seen it so well. But there is would be sent to the members of the no harm. When the Members have assembly who are detained, by post, even taken the oath and their names and, by post, those ballot papers appear on the lists, they cannot put would ccme back to the House. I the questions unless they are present beg of you to take a decision very here. early in this matter so that those detenu Members who are compul­ So far as the questions of the Esti­ sorily absent and not voluntarily are mates Committee and others are con­ not precluded from serving the House cerned, 1 do not know what the rules in regard to participation in the in the West Bengal Assembly are. elections to standing committees. Therefore, I cannot compare them with our own rules here. But here the Shri Bade (Khargone): One point, presence of the Member is required Sir. There is also some precedent, in and he has to vote himself. If any the House of Commons that whenever Member cannot come here, I cannot the Speaker wants that they should get that vote by ballot through post serve the Parliament, those Mem­ from him. Our rules require that bers are called in the House. Here the Members must be present and also, Shri Gopalan’s name is on record must be voting. Rather, the voting and when it appears that his services ought ordinarily to take place inside are required by you, he may be cal­ the House, but for the sake of con­ led. venience, we have devised this me­ thod, namely, that it might take place Mr. Speaker: Some things might in the Committee Room. appear to the hon. Members that do not appear to me. That is the diffi­ Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (Kend- culty. Then there is a distinction that rapara): It is in exceptional circum­ I have to draw between Shri Madhu stances that they have been put in Limaye and other Members who have jail and so some exception must be been detained. Shri Madhu Limaye made in regard to the rules also. is absent because this House has passed that order, and the other Mr. Speaker: How can I do that? Members are in the jail not because Yes, Shri Kamath: this House desired it or passed the order in pusuance of any action taken by this House. It was some other Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I rise excutive agency which has done it. on a point of clarification. The point Therefore, this distinction must be that has been raised is still troubling clear in the minds of the hon. Mem­ me; it is a little more fundamental, bers when I have to call a Member and I therefore, seek the light of your here. Shri Madhu Limaye’s name wisdom to resolve that doubt in my was struck out on that day because mind. on that day there was no need to call such a Member who was not here Mr. Speaker: Too many adjectives and who was not serving. About are being used. 8963 Leave of APRIL 12, 1965 Absence 8964

Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: “The that he should not be barred from light of your wisdom” is no adjective. exercising his right to vote and to It is just a statement of fact. participate in the elections.

Mr. Speaker: On the one side, he Mr. Speaker: This suggestion was can give me credit for my wisdom, made to me this morning, and I have and in the subsequent sentence, he already referred to it. may be questioning my wisdom also. (Interruption). Therefore, that does not look nice. He may now proceed TT*T ( chW9l3T^): to say whatever he wants to say. ^ JTFHT fa # 3TT ^ *tt TqT f> ^TTTT 5TTT ^ I %fa^T Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I just wanted you to dispel the temporary srtft ?rnr% | fa f w r darkness from my mind. I only wan­ ft* M l *fMI W % ted to ask you this. In the case of Shri Madhu Limaye, because he has f*TT I sftr jffan^FT ^PTT^ been suspended from the service of ■T TIpfT tf>T7T % ^iTT ^ I the House, because of that fact, he is no longer in the service of the House. Therefore, his name has been f a ^ '*i + TFT t ^T^TcT Their names have not been deleted. Therefore, per contra, when the Mem­ 1 bers’ names appear in the question list, ipso facto, they must be deemed to STOW be in the service of the House. And, I I STT^T % therefore, when they continue in service, is it not your duty,—if I may ^33T^TTt I ^ ^ be permitted to say so—as the sup­ faT % S^TFTT | I that i3 reme custodian of the rights and in case where the House has passed privileges of the House, to see that an order. In other cases we are not they are enabled to render that ser­ precluding them coming over ana vice in the House when you yourself participating here. They can come deem, it appears, that they are in the any time they like. But there is an­ service of the House? other authority that is preventing them. I am not preventing them or Shri N. C. Chatterjee (Burdwan): debarring them through any orders There is a distinction between volun­ of this House or of my own. Whe­ tary absence and compulsory absence. ther we should call them or ask them Our rules do not make any provision to come over here is quite a different in the case of compulsory absence thing—I do not thinfcf I can interfere from the House. When one is enti­ in the orders of the executive so far tled to continue as a Member and as this is concerned. his name is placed on the question list, then there is no bar on his func­ tioning as a member. At least, either Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will you kind­ the ballot paper should be made ly consider this matter in a little available to him, should be ordered to more detail, Sir—the postal ballot? be sent by post* to him, or he should be called for exercising the voting right and tnen ne may go back if necessary. Mr. Speaker: Postal ballot—I will But certain steps should be taken so look into the matter, if it is possible. 8965 CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) P. A. Comm. Report Sq66 12.54 hrs. ^ft ^ q rP T *ft PAPER LAID ON THE TABLE ssr m m w w pt ssrr m vj \

G overnment Resolution re recom ­ wxw : um wr g*rr rfr m mendations of Central Wage Board *ri 1 FOR NON-JOURNALIST EMPLOYEES ^t?t f t |

The Minister of Labour and Emp­ fiRs: if. . . loyment (Shri D. Sanjivayya): I beg to lay on the Table a copy of ^TTqrTT^fr^'r ^ Government Resolution No. WB. 17 m (13)/64 dated the 9th April, 1965, arr $1 T f * cfrfarar So, I take it that the House agrees regarding recommendations of the with the report of the Committee on Central Wage Board for non-journa­ Absence of Members from the Sit­ list employees of newspaper estab­ tings of the House, regarding the lishments for grant of interim relief. grant of leave of absence to Mem­ [Placed in Libraryt see No. LT-4176/ bers. 65].

Shri Daji (Indore): Sir, before you Several lion. Member-?: VVs. \-os. proceed further, I should like to have an information from the hon. Minis­ Mr. Speaker: The Members would ter about this item of business. My be informed accordingly. information is that one of the mem­ bers of the Wage Board is under detention. Has his place been filled up or is any arrangement made so 12.56 hrs. that he is released and brought back and he can function as member of the Wage Board? COMMITTEE OF PRIVATE MEM­ BERS’ BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS Shri D. Sanjivayya: We are asking the union which he represents to Sixty- third Report send an alternative representative. Shri Krishnamoorthy Rao (Shim- oga): I beg to present the Sixty-third Report of the Committee on Private Members’ Bills and Resolutions. 12.55 hrs. LEAVE OF ABSENCE FROM SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE— contd. 12.564 hrs.

aft TTWHiT* (^TT^r) : t PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

Thirty-Fourth Report $ 1 to fwr % w tot it t ___ Shri Morarka (Jhunjhunu): I beg : aft *ftar f t ^ to present the Thirty-fourth Report ^ n ft % ^Tft I of the Public Accounts Committee (1964-65) on grants, loans, contracts «rr *rtr tft aft and facilities given by the Central sr# ^ft *ft |1 3 f irnmr Government Departments/Ministries to Bharat Sevak Samaj—paras 65, f t to t 1 anr ^ f t eft 86, 86(A), 86(B), 86(C), 86(D), 88(d) 3TC ^T?ft aft ^ t , . and 117 of Audit Report (Civil), 1964. 3967 D- G-—Min- APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation 8968

Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): The their helping hand. Bihar people have Public Accounts Committee has gone tried to put them on their feet again. into the question of the Bharat Sevak The burden of rehabilitating them has Samaj and has submitted a report. fallen on Madhya Pradesh and they The accounts of the Bharat Sevak have accepted it willingly. Mahara­ Samaj, according to many sources, shtra, Tripura, Orissa, Uttar Pradesh are very shady. It may not be so. and NEFA—all these States and Union But I want to know whether their Territories have shown fraternal in­ acounts will also be audited properly terest in the refugees from East by the Comptroller and Auditor- Pakistan. General and the accounts be placed before the House, on the Table of the 13 hrs. House. Now that the convention has been accepted, that the Public Acco­ We always talk of national integ­ unts Committee goes into these aff­ ration in this country and sometimes airs, I want to know whether the we talk of the fissiparous tendencies. Minister will consider that the audit­ But I think the resettlement of these ed accounts and the Report made by refugees whether in camps or in other the Comptroller and Auditor-General places in all these States of India should be placed on the Table of the gives me a picture of national integ­ House. ration and I hope as time passes, this picture will become brighter and bri­ Mr. Speaker: He might consider. ghter and every State will take some I have no answer to make so far refugees from East Pakistan, even as this is concerned. though the number may be a token one. I would like that Punjab, which 12.59 hrs. is already a refugee State, should also take some refugees from East Pakis­ tan, so that our State also does not lag behind in this respect. ♦DEMANDS FOR GRANTS—contd. The ministry ha^ given us a table Ministry of Rehabilitation —contd. of the influx of refugees into West Bengal Assam and Tripura from Mr. Speaker: The House will now 1-1-64 to 31-1-65. I find the daily take up discussion and voting on the average is 2252. I also take it Demands for Grants under tihe control that the total number of re­ of the Ministry of Rehabilitation. Out fugee that have come into of four hours, 2 hours and 30 minutes our country is about 9 lakhs have already been taken up. 1 hour in these months. Of course, the and 30 minutes remain. total number from the beginning up to this time comes to about 45 lakhs or Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): more. I want to ask one question not Sir, I congratulate the Minister on of the Rehabilitation minister, but of having made the task of rehabilitation the Government of India: Pakistan is of refugees from East Pakistan an making our borders unsafe. There is all-India affair. I am glad that all hardly an inch of common ground the States of India, according to their where they are not trying to capacity and according to the resourc­ infiltrate, attack and subvert es available to them are taking in and trying to put us on the their hands the rehabilitation of re­ defensive. I wish we are on the fugees from East Pakistan. The offensive. At the same time, they are people of Assam have welcomed them trying to squeeze out all the minori­ with open arms. Even Andhra Pra­ ties from East Pakistan. I do not desh people have extended to them s care if I was (driven away from West

•Moved with the recommendation of the President. 8969 D. G.—Min. CHAITEA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) of Rehabilitation 8970

Pakistan: I do not care if the hon. Speaker of this House was driven out of We't Pakistan. But I want to ask one question: How long are we going to put up with this sorry state of Shri D. C. Sharma: Sit down! affairs and to show the other cheek to the brother across namely, Pakis­ Mr. Speaker: That is not the way tan, who is trying to bludgeon us on to deal with anoher hon. member. the right cheek? How long are we going to follow this weak-knee policy? * f t j w t o w q m ( ^ r m ) : 2252 persons—as many persons as go compose my village—come eveiy day and our government is behaving like a seva samiti. It should behave like Mr. Speaker: bell is being a seva samiti and we should give them rung—Now there is quorum. every kind of help. But how long are we going to put up with this influx? 50 lakhs of people have come from *TTfo>^ fo> East Pakistan, which means as many persons have come from East Pakistan % *rr*ff snrcfr i # as inhabit 9 districts of Punjab of the ^TT ^!$dl for % PTFT size ol Gurdaspur district; that is half of Punjab which consists of 18 districts, has been taken away by szrforr w t % ^rr^r i f these refugees from East Pakistan. ^ ^TT ^T^TT *TT %foFT d % 31 7IHT ^ d I do not deny that we should give ?ft 1 ^iTclT ff fo> these refugees blankets, medicines, wFFfte education, land, industrial training, etc., and do everything for them. *1 They are our brothers, blood of our blood, flesh of our flesh, bone of our warn ^ 3TcT sfar | for bone. But w hy should our govern­ fora- ^ sjt ^ ment 'follow this anaemic, bloodless and sorry policy that we should al­ ways submit to the East Pakistan people? They do not let us live in sft .* dp< d eft *T^t peace on the border and they do not 4 let the minorities live in peace in | I WWt t STKX O T £, East Pakistan. There should be %------— found some other way of dealing with Pakistan and we should not be like this saying always, do not seal the ww : fo^ft ^ft ^rr border. I do not want the border to be sealed; let them come and let T T ?TT3T *Jt[t rft us have more camps. But all these are palliatives, measures taken to re­ 3T K T ?Tfft °h ^ f I I lieve these refugees. But the chief solution is that you must stop the in­ ^ to ^ rft

[snarer *Tft I should ask the hon. Minister as the West Pakistan refugees are of Rehabilitation to put across the case concerned. Their claims for pen­ of these refugees not only in India nons, provident fund, leave salary but also abroad. Whenever we go and security deposits have not been abroad we are told that the minorj attended to as briskly as they should ties are being harassed in India. have been. At the same time, the Whenever we go abroad we are tola contractors and other persons have that the minorities do not -have a not had their dues. Insurance poli­ comfortable :tay, a happy time in cies are still rotting in the archives India, whereas the boot is on the of West Pakistan. Court deposits are other leg. I think this is also somt- still lying unattended in West Pakis­ thing that should be done, and I be­ tan. 5 lieve the Government of India will do so. I would, therefore, say that while Now I come to the question of West the hon. Minister should attend more Pakistan refugees. The hon. Minis­ to the rehabilitation of refugees from ter who preceded Shri Tyagi was a East Pakistan, he should not forget refugee from West Pakistan. When the refugees from West Pakistan be­ trie question of rehabilitation of refu­ cause some of them are going to die gees from East Pakistan came, he or have already died due to not ob­ went and stayed in Calcutta. But taining pension and other things. our new Minister is very fond of Delhi. He stays all the time in Delhi. I would request him to stay for some time in Dandakaranya be­ 3PT 5TFT fr, ffTcW *T *Tot % I cause Dandakaranya is proving to be a fiasco. I would also request him Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member to stay for some time in Calcutta. I may resume hii seat. The Bell is would therefore submit to him very being rung. There is quorum now. respectfully—he i> my elder brother Shri D. C. Sharma may continue his —that he should stay only for a few speech. Hon. Members who have days in Delhi and he should not make come should remain in the House and Delhi his home. not run away. 8973 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation 8974

Shri D. C. Sharma: Sir, so far as from the Foreign Minister down to Dandakaranya is concerned, we must the Estimates Committee, have been do something to make it a going con­ aying that the situation in Pakistan cern in the matter of agriculture, in is not yet normal. When that is the the matter of industries, in the mat­ position in Pakistan, how can oar ter of land reclamation and in the Government take this stand? First matter of other things. What I find is, they declared that from 1st Novem­ while the input of administrative staff ber any person coming to India with­ has been great their output of work out travel documents will not be has been very very low and small. 1 given rehabilitation facilities. Yet, would like the output of staff to com­ thousands of people are still coming pare favourably with the output of in and there is no end to the flow work in these fields. At the same of people from Pakistan because the time, we should have an integrated plight of the minority community master plan for this and somebody there is miserable. The situation should take charge of it permanently. prevailing in Pakistan being what it I would request the hon. Minister to is, it is impossible for the minorities attend to this also. to live there in peace, and that is why they are coming to India in large Shri Dinen Bhattacharya (S e ra m - numbers. So, if the Government at pore): Mr. Speaker, Sir, 1 stand this stage choose to close the doors here to disapprove or sDeak against on their face, it is not only unreason­ the Demands of the Ministry of Re­ able but it is inhuman too. habilitation. I oppose the~e De­ mands. For the last three years wc had n0 Ministry separately in respect of rehabilitation. This year, of The other day when a Congress Member, Shri A. C. Guha. was speak­ course, it is a good thing that a sepa­ ing on this subject, he referred to the rate Ministry hai been formed and Shri Tyagi along with Dr. M. M. Das pitiable condition of these people and has been given the charge of it. They the difficulties which they are facing in East Pakistan. The husband is are trying, no doubt, to have a grasp of the problem, but from the actual living in India and the wife is on performance, I most reluctantly say, the other side of the border. She is not allowed to come heie and live this Ministry is still following a par­ with her husband. For that she has to tial policy at least towards the refu­ ge„ the migration certificate and it is gee's from East Pakistan. nons too easy to get it. From the Everybody who participated in the way in which the Ministry is proceed­ debate has said that there was no ing, one is tempted to believe that this necessity for the Government lu seal Ministry does not know the geography the border in the manner in which of East Pakistan. If a person resid­ they have done. From 1st April ing at Khulna ha: to get a migration nobody is allowed to come into India certificate, he has to go all the way without the necessary travel docu­ to Dacca, which is not an easy thing. ments. When the Parliament is in So, I voice my emphatic protest session why was such a vital policy against this order. It is not only my so declared without any consent cf view. The entire people of West the Parliament? In the West Bengal Bengal want this order to be with­ Assembly, both the Opposition and drawn and the West Bengal Legisla­ the Congress Mlembers have passed a tive Assembly has already passed a resolution requesting or demanding resolution that this order must be that 'this order must immediately be rescinded immediately so that any re­ rescinded. There must not be any fugee who wants to come over to sort of barrier for the people who India from East Pakistan could do so want to come here from Pakistan. and get in full the rehabilitation bene- Government spokesmen, beginning fiis which are offered to the refugees. 8975 D- G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation

[Shri Dinen Bhattacharya] Now I will explain why I say that done. But I can cite so many the Ministry are still partial in their examples, from the report of the dealings with the East Pakistan re­ Estimates Committee, to show the fugees. Take the case of the residu­ other side of the picture. For exam­ ary problem. First of all, I do not ple, the DDA does not know how agree with the Government that it is many tube-wells are necessary for a residuary problem. It is a live prob­ supplying drinking water to the vil­ lem still; only a very small part of lages. How many wells are function­ the problem has been solved. ing and how many are not function­ ing, even that information is not Shri Joachim Alva (Kanara): It available with the DDA. When this is a concurrent problem. is the way in which the DDA is func­ tioning, what could we expect from Shri Dinen Bhattacharya ; Yes, and the Government? we are duty-bound to solve it beca­ use at the time of partition we had The Estimates Committee says that given a solemn pledge to the people thousands of rupees are unnecessarily of Pakistan, the people belonging to spent on travelling allowance while the minority community, that in case very little is spent on real rehabilita­ of trouble they will be given not tion of refugees. The Committee fur­ only shelter here but they will be ther says that in the matter of employ­ fully rehabilitated. Now Government ment the DDA is not employing refu­ is being back on that promise is gees who were taken to Dandakaranya clearly proved and established by for land reclamation and other work; the recent order of Government. especially for class 3 and class 4 posts, people are not recruited from amongst The other day, my hon. friend, Dr. the refugees. M. M. Das, tried to explain the stand of Government on Dandakaranya, re­ Mr. Speaker: He should conclude garding which Shrimati Renu Chak- now. He has taken ten minutes. ravartty had raised certain points. The way in which he tried to explain Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: There are the position did not convince me or so many problems facing the refugees my other friends. I have got many that it is impossible to deal with them instances to show how insincere the within ten minutes. They cannot be Government is. To this day it has not solved by my writing to the Ministers, defined the powers of the different because they are indifferent to our authorities of Dandakaranya. What letters. So, I want to say something is the function of the Ministry, so far on the floor of the House. as Dandakaranya Development Au­ thority is concerned? What are the I must now come to the existing function:; of the Chairman and the problems. As Shrimati Renu Cbakra- Chief Administrator? Nothing has vartty has stated, you must raise the been defined with the result there ceiling because with the price of land is too much bickering between the that you have already fixed, namely, various authorities and it has come Rs. 1,250, you cannot get land in any out even in the newspapers. If only town or even in a village. So, unless Government had really taken serious the ceiling is raised, that problem can note of the matter and defined and never be solved. determined the powers of the differ­ ent authorities, all this could have Then I come to the regularisation been avoided. The situation obtain­ of squatters’ colonies. It has been ing there is really funny. The mentioned here that so many squat­ hon. Deputy Minister took pains ters’ colonies have 'been regularised. to describe the things they have But I say that not a single colony has 8977 D• G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) o/ Rehabilitation 8978 been re gularised. Government have situated should be given financial given some chits which have no legal assistance for the maintenance of these value. It is only a licence to stay in developing colonies. a plot of land. But it has no legal validity; you can drive them out. So, We reside in the municipality area why do you not give them title to the and we know that in these colonies in land? I do not know why Govern­ and around the Calcutta suburban ment should hesitate so much to give towns there are squatters. Now, the them title on the land. What is the West Bengal Government wants . . . harm? You have already given them the land. Now, why do you not give Mr. Deputy-Speaker: You should them the full right by giving the title close now. to the occupier of the land? Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: I will Then, there are certain colonies finish within two minutes. which are not regularized because some vested interests are connected Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No, you must with those colonies. There are some finish now. big land sharks, like Bhangore & Com­ Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: Yes, I pany -because of whom some squatters’ will finish within two minutes. colonies are not regularised. Every time I ask a question on this subject Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is a the West Bengal Government say that large number of Members waiting to they are taking steps to regularise speak. I must give them at least ten them, but up till today it has not been minutes each. So, you should finish done. now. 13.28 hrs. Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: This is very important. If I do not make this [Mr. Deputy -Speaker in the Chair] point now, when and where will I The four minimum requirements have the opportunity? for the development of the squatters’ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then others colonies are: drainage system, drink­ will not have any chance to speak. ing water, schools and roads. Even Please finish. though lakhs of rupees have been spent on these development works I Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: Yes. am sorry to say that no actual deve­ lopment has taken place. In my own I was saying that for these refugees area, in Mahesh Udbastu Sibir in spuatters at least some grant or loans Serampur one road was built at great should be given so that they may have cost but with one single shower the their sanitary privy; otherwise, they road was washed away. If the Minis­ will have the service privy which will ter so desires, he may look into it. mean an additional burden on the What is the good of squandering municipality. So, for the health of money in this way? The money the residents of the colony and for the should really be spent on development good or benefit of the locality, Govern­ work. ment should come forward with some To sum up, Government must first grants or loans for constructing pri­ raise the ceiling from Rs. 1,250. They vies. must give the actual price. The refugees must be given the title to The last point I will make out is their lands. Thirdly, development regarding some money which is still works must be taken up sincerely and due to contractors in Pakistan. I do properly and the municipalities in not know what the Government wants which the squatters' colonies are to do, but that thing must be looked 8979 G.—Min. APRIL 12, 196o of Rehabilitation 8980

[Shri Dinen Bhattacharya] into. Some people who have opted to disturb the local ways of life of for India worked there as contractors the people, namely, the Adivasis, the and their money is still due; it has not Tribals and the so-called backward been paid by the Pakistan Govern­ classes there. There must be no dis­ ment. That thing must be looked into. turbance. That must be very care­ fully taken note of. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri Chakra- verti. I will call the hon. Minister at As I said last year also, there should 2* 30. Hon. Members should take not be an integrated plan. Koraput in more than 10 minutes each. Orissa, Baster in Madhya Pradesh and Chanda in Maharashtra is the integra­ Shri P. R. Chakraverti (Dhanbad): ted area which could be developed, I am thankful to the Estimates Com­ but unfortunately it could not be done mittee for highlighting certain points because of the half-hearted policy on Dandakaranya. As I observed last that was adopted. The refugees also year on another occasion, I would only were playing in the hands of people reiterate the main points which had who made them a pawn in their game been emphasized by me. I am finding of politics and, unfortunately till to­ myself in a happy position now of be­ day only a few thousand people have ing in agreement with certain points been rehabilitated. similarly emphasized by them. I wrote last year in the Economic Re­ Last year, my demand was that view: there must be a separate Rehabalita- tion Ministry with a Cabinet rank “The lackadaisical manner, in Minister at the head. Fortunately, it which the vital question of reha­ has been done and the Ministry is bilitation was taken ud , yielded competent today to take up this pro­ nothing positive and meaningful. blem of integrated development so that the people know that they are The essentiai factors were seem­ having scope for employment as also ingly lost sight of—namely, the for development. availability of land and the speed with which it could be reclaimed Now I will take you round history and made ready for settlement. a bit. As the greatest living historian of the world today, Arnold Toynbee Then there was the question of says: setting up industries—cottage, medium in special—thereby in­ creasing employment potentiali­ “History never happens. It is ties. Agriculture could hardly brought about by the free deci­ contain the rising population. sions of men as they decide, whe­ Poultry, dairy and orchards had ther to be courageous or cowardly to form essential accompaniments in the face of tomorrow.” of rural economy . . Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath (Hosh- angabad): On a point of order, Sir. Recently, I had been to Madhya My hon. friend, Shri Chakraverti, is Pradesh and I did find that the same making a useful contribution to the question is there before us today, debate and it is too sad for words that namely, whether the people should be there is no quorum in the House. pnade to live in improvised shelters, Has the Government) decided that camps, or should they be rooted to the quorum should be reduced to 25 certain areas with employment oppor­ or 5? If so, let them do so quickly. tunities, agricultural and other pro­ fessions. Naturally, it must be basic­ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The bell is ally based on agro-industry. That being rung. . . . Now there is also should be done in a way as not quarum; he may continue his speech. 8981 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) of Rehabilitation 8982

Shri P. R. Chakraverti: Sir, as you as we are. They suffered and have played a prominent part 'n the fought as our comrades in the history of our independence, you know struggle for freedom.” the poignant feelings and the agonised tormentations we, the ordinary com­ After that he brings in a very impor­ mon men who worked only as mere tant contention that we cannot loday volunteers in the organisation, are believe in the so-called professions of working under. I am reminded -f the virtue and fellow feelings for the bold statement made by the Congress minorities, in the Pakistan regim-j as President in November 1947—a re­ it obtains today. markable man with robust optimism and unfailing courage; unfortunately, Naturally, the question that poses he is not with us now though he is a itself before us, first of all. “Why Member of Parliament here. The these persons have left tneir hearths Congress President had said: — and homes” ? The slogan and oogey raised by Pakistan that t;ie lur^ of “How was it that the Confess money and other rehabilitation facili­ failed to anticipate this colossa1 ties given by the Rehabilitation Minis­ tragedy—though it was warned of try attract these persons. Some peo­ it by no less a person than ple here are apt to believe in that. Gandhiji?” So, I raised this question with the Prime Minister and the President of He said: the Indian Nations! Congress and here is the definite declaration by the “In its anxiety to get rid of the Congress President in 1958. He British Raj, it allowed itself to be says: — taken in by Mr. Jinnah’s profession of solicitude for these minorities “I also agree with you that it is when it ought to have been obvi­ not because of the rehabilitation ous to all that in view of his fana­ benefits that they come away to tic faith in the two-nation theory, India leaving their all behind. this profession of solicitude wds a The extent of the problem has to mere mockery.” be ascertained in all seriousness.”

The Congress President continued his That is the problem that faces us to­ remarks and openly said: — day. When the people find that they cannot live there as full-fledged citi­ “Looking back over the ghostly tragedy of the last two months, I zens since they have all civic rights have no doubt that we would have denied to them—they are practically been wise if, before agreeing to treated as vassals, as second-class partition, we had made \Ir. Jirsaah citizens and are victims of communal face the logical consequences of frenzy and genocide—and with the this theory of two-nation. We did life blood squeezed out of them, they not believe in this pernicious the­ are forced to come to India to seek ory and yet, by accepting the shelter on the definite assurance of the June 3 plan, we were more or less Congress President and the Prime driven to adopt it as the basis of Minister of India. Now what justifi­ partition.” cation is there for somebody to come forward and say. “You cannot come As a result, what happened? He because you have no migration certi­ said: — ficate” .

“We cannot absolve ourselves So, I am prompted raise this ques­ from our responsibility towards tion again. How can you bar the entry the minorities in Pakistan. The:/ of the people who have the legitimate were part of our nation as much right to come over here and the 8983 D. G .-M in. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation 8984

[Shri P. R. Chakraverti] definite assurance of the late Prime Minister, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru, the ^ f twq erstwhile Presidents of the Indian National Congress, Acharya Kripalani w r srk wmfiT % *rt sr^t and Dr. Rajendra Prasad? I have got TTpft ^TRft I I ^ff ^ T R ^ t f so many letters addressed to them in ^ t f 'STTrfT | ? j t t t mr my repeated correspondence that I had occasion to carry on with them. I T f %e!T I eft s t ?ft ^ n r t 3TT? eft again reiterate that it would be most *TFTeTT ?Tff | | ensft tft ^ W t outrageous and atrocious if the people 'F*n*T ^tfeTT W ?ft ^ ^t^TT who rightly belong to India are with­ held from coming over here. This will 1 1 Tu rriff st ^r% be augmenting their humiliation that they have been made to suffer there. One should realise why they are t , p t f t ^t ^ tf srf q-r% ^pr coming after 17 years of stay there aifir f against all odds. It is a ghastly tra­ ^ T f ^ 3tT 3 7 ^ eft 5TPR *W5Jfl*l gedy that forces them out the life­ blood is squeezed out of them and yet ft ^THT, ^rTTSTRt ^TRT *T51W ft 3TPT I they are made to stand on the front­ %^FT *Tf eft t ^TT ^Tff T f T O iers for non-fulfilment of some tech­ f f^R^f ?ft% W>T f t nical rules. We cannot bar their entry. t '’ft 1TPT^‘ ^TFT *TFT 3FT f^^ TP T *r That is my appeal to the Ministry srr 11 s n r t TTf^H %■ w r which should again consider its policy in the context of latest tragic develop­ T.| I ^ftr T^m % ^ft^ 5ETT HT ments and see that all these restric­ f i ^ rt ^ n f t t N- tions are withdrawn. 'Tester fSTTT I, % *fr t 33TT 11 ^kV ^ tt % 3 T f t ^ r | ^nfr ^rpff ^ ^ T f T

f T + H I ^TTfT|^ft%W ?TftTt facffTfr I q I f^T% ’Mie) eft '3*1+T ^ f ^ r : ^ft ^et, ^1% hn ^3 ^ f t % % fapEW qfVai e*rf%: It feFft ^TTTt cTKT^ ^ft m T | % ^ T f f^T eRf ^ WT% ^jTT TfT f, qr s'ttwst m r ^ft^TT fT*TT I fm eTTf ^ to r w : ^rFft ^ ft m vm i TFft f^T^T t ^TeTT | ^ ft eTTf sqfteHiei ^rr qfTxra-11 ?r ff^W M % ^nfr en^ ^ 11 f e j ; 11 w ^ r qWk % #st |f qfkvmr ^rrr ^frr ^ «fp- «R^t *rt *rfr | qr ^ srferKr7: ^rnT^ ^Rt^i i ^frf Thfr ^rft ?r% i

^ far ercf % *rr ^l^nt f *wfft TT^pftf^v <-c| |^4 1 ^ft oqPki j e t f i h ^ t ^ I ^Tf ^fT *t>IH ePTTX s t r t ^ t^ tt | ^ f ^sff *Tft f I ff?|f 'jIIm ^ft, W ^14 3THT -^l$dl I ^«i»l f^T ^ R T ^ lffi| I ^ ff, WZ ^>ft ^OTt J® TOTTf f t W& STMT «Ft T5TT % t%rtr ?rft ^ ^ t ?rrif ^sft f ^n»r ^ ^ 1^ ^ft TSTT % f^nr ^t eft ?TRT ^tptt ^n | iftx *mi ■Mi^di f 1 'dH'tit ^ft ^rnr < 1 ^ ^r 5Rt^ ^fft ft f ff^ft % Tm i ^fidi ^ rit sftr ^tt^t P h W 1 ^ t f ^ n r ^ t*t «Tft ft ^+di ^ i f^fr ^ cf^ r % I, f i t ^»t$ dsM eft'tie’ll ftffaTT I w ^ t %m i t^r ^rssnr 5ft t r t w m 1P?% w r T«Pf^ 3T# f i tsrrrf ^t ^ % ?TT fefT «TT I ^ ^+1 f I ^TFT : «TfT ^ N > T fRT ^ T eft ^ f ^ f^ - ^PTT ^ P f t ^ft ?Tn% ^ T T ^ l 'jft ^RTT fterr ^ 3 f ^TFTt ^T 0 ^ ^T T ^TfT ^TT T | f I WIX f 1? ^TT^ vft^ft % f ^ d iIK ^ T ^ ft I ^T9fft ?TFr ^t, ^ t ^>T ST^ST *Tft ^^»et ?ft ^Enft ^ ft ^ rt, MkPh^iM 'Srnsft 1 ^nr^r <®^?ftf^T f t 4»f H f ft^TT I f^^m T^TT- Nif+^dM % wr^t ^ ^nrwr ?rr wk wft w f t q ? % f .^ft ^ f, ^ t *\y1\t ^3^1% ^ttr% ^*1^1 n+j< ^r feT^ WFt | ‘3‘^FT i^\*\ ^ t ^nrwr ?rr ^ ft ^ f t f t ^rrrnft f t ^TT I ^TW T ^n^feft ^ 1% eft ^ f ^tl «ild ^ t ? T T ^ °FTrTT 45 ^ rtf ^tT^ft | iftx mx > ^JX ^ ^TT f% OTT ^Tft % feft ^t wxte vft ^ft ^rm eft w<^x ^ ft^ r $ m m ^ntnrr eft ^ fj % tN ' «^

[« ft HT*}WTT ^ fern fft vTn^rr 1 ^rf^rr -m 1 < f^f'SRT SRTfX ^ ^ ^fhff VT ^TPTT ^T^TT * F x t ? ^ t ^ f t ^ ?ftx f^rr^r ^ x^ f, ^ \ %^T^rwt ^rtfj- er-g’*T( ^ P x ftW ^ V ^Tft’ ^ I f f ^ ?r t o r ^ ^pft ^ f^^RTTf *f)Ri ^ f^p 3^5 ^ftrr * tt^! ^t p t m t + f I ^ T ^ fW % ^ T R W % ^ ^TTT?r f a r x ^ ^ f t ^ff 1 t?ftf^X X| |l ^ f^TTX ^ tqr frs%f^ff X | ^ I ^ % f^TTT 5 0 0 ^ 0 ^Ft o ^ X ^ T ^rnr ^ T f^TT WT ^TT f ^ f f % ^ : t | , % f^ T 2 0 0 ^ 2 5 0 Pl«*vM f^TT ^FTT ^TT dl+'O ^t I ^ X ^ T 3T X * f f % t I ^reft^faxtSr > ^ t x vpfi ^r M'H'i f w *rr <^1 ^ , 'dri+i f 1 w t cfxf w sr^ fwsrrxfr 11 f f^ r t ^ r p - ?ftx ^ Yfhrrxf % ^ T ? it ^ r ^ I T f ^TX^>TX i f k ^ T FT t ^ft ^ f t . .. ^r^?n^Rrrf^cft ^ f *f ?TTTT |TT ^ (« ft ^ T F ft) : W f %" ^$cTT % im 3^ 1% ^T ^ I ?ftx w h H wt f¥ ^ ^rar ^ t «ft «ft^T ^RpT : % ?hh f^ r cft^ft- fro % fltST sftx *T3X x ^ r f ^ f t f ^ ^ r x X f ^FX viH % <**sl 1 X % ^T "FR^ ®Rt ^tf^T^T % «V

sftift ??****<* (< M h fh r):^ w rer f%^TFT ^Ft'ift ^ . . . ^ ? n w 5fTWTxt g w it «^o HTo *afhsrct ( ^ if m ) : ^ *nrr ^ 1 *r^r W k ^Mmi ^ 5ft ? ftx f^TT ^Idl ^ ft ^rarx^t ^ 1 qx^^jfTw r ^ >3XT ^fft ^Ti^ft +£ ^ % ^ tT^rl I ^ ^T ^XTT ^ I ^x ^b s ^t r f ^ r r ^ 1

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%, 'jft IV * m i m n- ^■°tol' efTf ^ sJ'i + ;( % r^wli *l»t ^5TT vjl+flq t i ^ffr eT^r %rt ^thdi 0 1

ff^r jft ft ?Tff f< | I ^m ^ttt fTft «ft^% f,TOVr «i§n ?ft^T)'Ji(+'i^ ’TT ^<1^*1 f t spffr ^ f r t | 1 # ^ 1+d ^ f ^"hK ^ I :3»T ^T sggr t o wW i%f^aiTferr jn#?ft*r Vtf ?pf ’Tff | I .qf»0 ?T ^T% fTIT^ f>^el ff tV % *ft*T ^RHT % ?TR *f*TT?T ^ r % ^ f t f , %fV^r ^Tsft#- % ETPT Wft % T| | I #% ^ Vt^rftr f>TT ^TT^T ^T t#- ^>^§erf^eRt%% ^3T | I vPT^RT fR T eft TfT, ^ d•HIVlI ^ft f 3TITOT ifV^tSTFT Vt%eft*3T?T ^ r 1 1 if^t ^rft^r mrrsr ?r ^ T % W ^ left ^ I ^ 0 ^ft^ TO%t f t , ^ T^ T ^'tTo2?' S^TRT^T Vt ^ft fteft | ,sfk t ?ft*r tot % snfe ^ft fFTfW | TO Vt STE^t eRf % ^TT^T ft%| I tM ^T^TT^TTi^r^ I (*<+• TT^rt^rfiqi^t ^ ?ftT s.*t % The Deputy Minister in the Ministry TO^t ^ r % ?FTflR ^ T Vr rHT ^TTT of Rehabilitation (Dr. M. M. Das): We =5rrf^r i on this side will welcome a debate on the report of the Estimates Commt- tee on Danda Karanya. We are not 'J'T Wt*ff % ^JNItf % angry. *t ^ft^Zft T ft|, TO ^U ^ ^ff^ I ' Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Yes, we- * R T f% ^ eft ^ fV l^T % tt^t shall have a debate some time later. ^3^ t d O ^ «f>+)r «i*ii^ *ri*t ilTO Vt^fay i ^t wim eft^rf *ft *ftf^ : STPT % ^fKf. f t % fe r t o % m*t *tft *Tf tft % ^ fr «rr 1 vmw|fV5ftw>r ^rr% ^t |, ?T ^ft *Tf ^TeT ^ ft Tff fV W ^ f[ *rr ■Tft, to sft H >^t Wt*T ’MMl ^TTf% f ° 44WI | m ^Tff , f ^ rTW *ft 3f qrfV^TFT ?n% f^rr ^ttt % ^ft t o ^t &TFfZ I ^T^F^ST Tf%

^ q * ]

^Ft f^raT «TT ^ sff ^fir 11 ^rsnR-^cfr ^ ?ntr I TOT, ^Rft ^Flff % ?^TR ^rV ^ fi^Rt ^IT ^Ft ft*RT ^ R I ^ ^fr ^ 1 ^ W ^ft ^TNm ^T ^TT^f I in ^ ^ ft?n ^ i it *rt ^tr ^T m m I ^HFT 5Ftf *T*i?k ^ fan | ^ *ft ift to | i I I ^ T ^TT ^TrRT^T | f% ^ ■*H*W ^ T R ^ ^ : ^ ^ I ^ ?f fOTT ^rVr ^ t ^r q^TR t o n i ^tr^t cRq> “Those who have migrated from ^R^R ^T ^TR ^TT ^Tt^T | Pakistan to Jammu and Kashmir are not eligible lor rehabilitation assistance” . ^ % arto ^n^: ^r ^rk w t ?rk ^fr ?t r t ^ 3tR fWT | I W t fa^R t ’qif^M i gf^sn ^t, ^t, ?t r r t s rk ^ vnft i cHfft ^ ^ y=f% ^ i *r*ft ^ s r t qre, ^TR*ft W^U •3^ +^) TTOT ^R, *£5R ^ ^ 'd’^ I ^ t 3ft ST?T ^ I sffr; ftR % %R WfMiJd ^ ^ 5ff Tft ^ #^q ^ ^ i ^ r ^ q t ^ ?fR ?t f+'tfi m+ k ^>t +iq ^ t sft ^TT ^ ^ ^ft iT^st ^ 1 tT^r ^rq ^ ^ T^t | i q ^ <=ptf T 5r^y ton ^rt fV % ^T WhTt ^dl^TT ^5TT T^T i| ^ r% ^ fr <£\$Xw$ ir^^r^tor^t ^3^% ^ 3TT f ^T% i Tjft ^ to ft ^qir 3>t oq^pqr =Ft od^«^ ^PTTfrrfl' fsfc ~R ?Rmi q f I M & fe % f?R ^TT% f | 5ZR^n xT5R slR '>TT *^l ^ I Tf ’•n Ij ^ R T ^T Rtft ^ i ^ t qr fcRsffar tit t 1 ^ ?fnc ^rsR^fr ^ qr ?n?nT p n «1ql ^ ^TRT ^T TqT q ?|Pm °Ftf ^ ta r ^ ftr^Rt | i ^qf ?nfe '^R T PTR ilN I’H % f e r ’Tjft f^TT «TT f ^ - W f l «Tt ^ | i

t ^t ^ i *ffor q ^ q^sf, ^ et 3ft st^r ^ ^T% fkrR°T o^T- ^ ^ f ^qtr w i ^fR ^^«n cRt% ^ ?T^t % I ^ f«pj I ?flT ?m ^T ton eft wW '5Rq?t d+ ^r ^ i *093 D. G— Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation g994

qrr q r ^t r | ^ w t ^fe^rnfV % <^qr f ^ r ?ft I STPT 33T qrt W t | | ^RTT I ^CRT ^ qwr Wm | rm i *t ^ 5ZPT sft fRTT | % IcRT q^TT ft% qr ^ ^rr '3TT WT ?r^V fteTT | I w r w ^rr ^ gft ^ f^ f t - ^ ° m f*q*fPT fffaT | v tr ?ft*r f w t ?rh: fJTTO" fqrqT 5TT TfT t| f i ^hnrf % fm q+qdH | ’ t ^?qT^T % ^ r if fiprT %f^r qr strt ^ |, ^ | ^tt ?rft 1 ?rh: fqr?: tN tt ?rrft | I f^> t$- f off «RRfT TTff *WS?^ % 3^rr ^ « f TOTT ^TT ^TT TfT | I ftrfe t i f 1© ^Tfr qr s t o t | ^ ^ ri I^Ttr % ^|i| % fllHUl *TRt ^T ^ f t ^ T «J7T % TT^7 ^rrer % ^r ^ f ^ r r ^ rr ^rr ^ ?rd% ^ $?r qrpr *r * k ^ r t |, TOT qrr ^fTT 1961 ^T ^TT t f ^FTT 1 1 - + ^4n tq> ^ IT^RHRt ^ tit fa?R qi« jft w ? ftr *7^ 5PTW Tf^t ftW fcnj ^ f t ^ R ^ ?TR 5TTFq^ | fqr ^?T% J * t I ^ ^ frrtt ^r ^5 ^ w t I Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order He should not use such words. tit : ^qT^ST TT^m, # ^fRT s f t f e R q^Trmv : w % ^ i^ ii fqr «rqf ?rk ^ ^fr wRrfhr ^ *T5T 5T|cT qpSi qr$pTT ?Tft t | f^TTr ?n% | '3^qrr f^np ^ r fr r tf t ^t ^ q^ ^ ^ qfw^RT^rt ^ + d l q^fffqr # rn^rqif q^frcr +0$ w r qrr ?whi+ sqmR M ^ f r % | 1 | i 1957 % m ? f k ^ « ftfe p r qTRnmv : ^ ^ ^ q f ^ f m i qrt q>ra?fNeT qrr% % fq» q^f mm zft^n ^r ^ qrf | i ^hTT W I ^ iTf Wr^T ^ % 5 ? rq % q ^ r% ^k ^rf ^^rqFpT ?n^ qr% vrrofhft % f^rq «hni ^ t ^ q^ftfq7 qw q^t ^ i ^Pm rft ^rqq ?nf^r ^ qr% ^rrr- q n r ^ qrr q ^ % % ^ ?pfk *?tt rfhft "FT q>TR" ^ft ^T^Ft f^TT ^THTT q ^ f | , ^jm j q^f | ssffr ^r,titt 1 r ^ c> ^T I #5ft * t 1 ^OTf|-q7tq%f^iTt |afar q^sfhj qirtf ^qt f^ f ^nft, ^qTtJRT ^ ^ M W ?rh: ^nfhr f ^ n r f i qrr +1 ^ »r^t ^ 1 ?r\T ^T I fq: q%, ^ f f vinfhT qrr q?t q^T- «ft ft^nr ^ «rrc yrtst ^TcT qr^ %?tt ^ r r ^ fqr ^ r f ^ f^R^" ^ft^T I ^ F T qrt ^ft fCTtS rfW ?t r |, Tq^r % crfer ?rr^ i>. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation £556

[sft PliSH ^fNnmr erfa^^ # m fe x % %d ^ f ^tt ^ ^ fen ^ft *rt I fell f I w ifm ^R % ITf 4 ^ 3 tTT 3T^r % % xSM^I ^TeT ftn t fV 'Sft +l*i 'd^+t tilm ^PcMW ^Tft +

i>K r ^ W M % «TTfT g fV ^ W ? ^TfK % ^TT% =0% ^TRcfhff %5TTt% V tf *W mXefhff Vt ^PT^TT Vt ge^^V^ReT ^ sftfir ^ wmnft 1 % SP^X =ll^fl V W ^PTFTT ?Ft % f^rcr f ^T Hl+WI 5rFT% % # I ?PR ^Tf WTvPT d^l < ^TFpr W IT ^T^fT ff I % fr ^TTTjn eft f^nr^r ft w Vt ^PF^Terr e R f % m*m ^ TfT t fa* *T ^Tpft 1 ^ fft «TfT % *U

ftpr % ^TR^T 3 f ?TT ^Tft CTT%, *ft< “We think also of our m 5TRTT | eft TReTT f t ^ T brothers and sisters who are f t ^rraT I eft t ^ Tifhfzr % being cut off from us by political 1 M<*\ boundaries and who unhappily ^411 fV ?TT% WT^RT Vt 3TOT 1 cannot share at present in the srrr^ft vRwrfoft % freedom that has come. 'Riey are us a n d they would remain of xis, fwi ft sq^TT ^Tft ft^ft ^rff#, whatever may happen, and we will ^r mwfwf % f^- ^rt &F5V?u be sharers in their good and ill- <

Sardar Patel was more emphatic. Commission. I am reading page 309 3Ie said: of the Report.

"Our hearts naturally go out to ‘The Government of Pakistan, those who were of us and with the press, the radio and prominent us so long, but who are now being members of Cabinet, religious and separated. Few can realise the lay leaders, seized upon the Hazrat bitterness and sorrow which parti­ Bal incident to indulge in propa­ tion has brought to those who ganda of incitement not only cherished unity and lived to against India but Hindus in gene­ fashion the details. But let not ral, notwithstanding the fact that our brethren across the border feel there were about 9 million non- that they are going to be neglected Muslims in East Pakistan, over* and forgotten. Their welfare will whelming majority of these being claim our vigilance and we will Hindus. False and highly exage­ follow with abiding interest their rated statements about the hap­ future” . penings m Kashmir were publish­ ed in banner headlines and base­ The Congress Working Committee less allegations made against the also passed a resolution: Government of India Mr. Nehru was called “The Real Thief and “The Congress is bound to afford the Real Arsonist” . full protection to all those non- Muslims from Pakistan who have Then, you know what happened In crossed the border and come over Dacca, in Narayanganj and In to India or who may do so to save Khulna. Organised genocide started. I their lives and their honour” . have not much time to quote some mor passages from this Report. You Last year, when the terrible holo­ know now that the report is there. caust started, I had the privilege of Yet, the hon. Minister says, let us leading a citizen’s delegation in have a discussion. But he cannot deny Calcutta to the hon. Home Miniser, the facts. What are the facts? The Shri Nanda, the Finance Minister, facts are: from 1st January uptill Shri Krishnamachari and the then the end of the year 5'78 lakhs of 'Rehabilitation Minister, Shri Khanna. people have come to West Bengal— After hearing us, they gave their the total for India was 8*56 lakhs. solemn word of honour that no im­ Out of this total number 4.42 lakhs— pediment would be created so far as 51.6 per cent—are new migrants who the minority community from East have come over without any travel Pakistan was concerned, and they documents. -would relax restrictions. Are we to understand that there Sir, possibly you have heard that has been peace now and that too the International Commission of peace with honour and the minorities Jurists, Indian Branch, has submitted are now being protected? Nothing of a Report on the recurrent exodus of the kind has happened, Sir. On the minorities from East Pakistan and other hand, this International Com­ Disturbance in India. I had the mission of Jurists, a responsible body privilege to approach the present which maintains certain standards, are Prime Minister, Mr. Shastri, and he saying— was good enough to order that all "Social and economic boycott facilities should be afforded and the of non-muslims in many areas •Commission has submitted a Report. I :a»ade it impossible for them to thought that every Member of this live in Pakistan. Parliament would be supplied * copy of this Report because the Govern­ The leaders of Pakistan and its ment has got 500 copies from the press and radio kept denying any- 89 99 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 196& of Rehabilitation

[Shri N. C. Chatterjee] thing whatever had happened in ber of days and pay money some­ East Pakistan.” times, graft, because corrupt elements Also there are other incidents, which are operating there. So it is very I have no time to read to you. But very difficult for them. Let there be only one paragraph I will read. screening. We don’t want any Pakis- tanni saboteurs to come in. It is “The total number of refugees necessary for the Government to be Who have arrived in 1964 in India careful in this respect. They can do is about 8,70,000 but of these the screening, but let not this cruel 48,000 are Christians an^ 21,000 order of sealing the entire border be are Buddhists. This brings the continued to be implemented making number of refugees from East It impossible for any Hindu refugees Pakistan area from 1946 t 0 1964 to to come over. about 5$ million. The population of non-Muslims in East Pakistan We have heard a lot about the- at the time of partition was about Dandakaranya Development Autho­ 13 million. Only about 8$ million rity. The Deputy Minister was very are left” eloquent over his great achievements. These 8| million are today in dire The achievement is a complete fiasco.. jeopardy. I will read out a portion of Let us look at the facts. I am the statement which appeared in the reading from a very thoughtful article* Congress papers in Calcutta. What i* published in The Statesman which that? only supports the Government. “The West Bengal Police are Dr. M. Mi Das: I think the paper pushing back the unfortunate which writes something against us is refugees who are now coming also a Congress paper. over”.

It is very easy for the hon. Minister Shri N. C. Chatterjee: It says, to stand up and say that they can get “Dandakaranya has proved to be a white elephant” . Yes, it is a white migration certificates. But they don't know what is happening. I have my­ elephant and nobody can deny it How self gone to Mr. Shastri a number of much has it cost? After six years o f development it has cost India, our times and lodged complaints about the harassment and the persecution exchequer, our poor tax-payers’ and the treatment that these refugees, money, Rs. 30 crores. I do not know these intending refugees, get at the about what the hon. Minister is very hands of our own officers. It is a crtiel proud and is very eloquent. Only shame. I am sorry to say as a Bengal1., 10,000 families have been rehabilitated as a Hindu and as an Indian that there; 10,000 families at a cost of our own officers have been ill-treating Rs. 30 crores, which means for each these people. Of course, after repeated family Rs. 30,000 have been invested. complaints both to the Home Minister Dr. M. M. Das: It is not certainly and to Mr. Shastri things have im­ Rs. 30 crores. I don’t know the hon; proved. But it is really impossible Member's source of information. because the geographical situation is such that the peopie find it very Shri N. C. Chatterjee: You please difficult to come down to Dacca. tell me what is the figure. Pakistan ordered the closure of Raj- sahi office and we succumbed to that fasSFT m w order and closed down that office. f*RT 30 The entire North Bengal was cut off, srnrnx i thus, making it very difficult for the people there to come down. But even Sftri N. C. Chatterjee: Let not my there they have to wait for a num­ friend get irritated. The worst thing: 9001 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation 9002:

is what has happened to Mr. Saibal Gupta, who ig an officer with great ^TT -qlfal | ?TT% *T reputation, ability and experience. He had been giving the figures because SRT | I ^ STT9IT | he was in charge of it. What is the use of saying that there were con­ *ft W TT T f . siderable bickerings? I am sorry to say w r t ^ f t m w r 1 that these bickerings among the high- ups d0 not interest us. The whole thing has been a failure. The expected *Tf I far Wf 1947 yield from the agricultural land has ^ prr i nrf^Rt been much below than what was % ferR r sftr foirrsM % ^ r f w ? r expected and the industries have not been developed. The result has been % *ft. % w r t that on the whole the Dandakaranya % W

I submit, Sir, that there should be WFT ?T '»TFT I IT ^IfT re-thinking. I am not blaming the ^TpTT | 1% Rehabilitation Minister. I thought that the upgrading of the Ministry with cabinet portfolio was a right step and ^ I I expected a lot of the hon. Minister. But I am disappointed. I am also dis­ appointed that Mr. Shastri who had q f ^ f t Trf+^IM % f^T thoroughly approved that there should f w ffRff q ^»ft Wfrti be re-thinking and this Rehabilitation business should be under a Cabinet Minister who should go ahead with ^rr ^ ^wtr wfr the rehabilitation plan having regard ^fr qff qr ^trt eft w r, to the new danger which has come to ^ ^t ^rr ^rrrr ^#t ^Rf)wr ^ the already persecuted minority has also failed in this critical hour. f W W I HHeTT | f ? p fa m f f e , fkity f^nx-ETRj ?fk sft W m tit (wsrf ) : 3TTT5*T$T ^ft^T-^R ?ftT 5fTf^ah ^fr, ^irrfwt ^ *9003 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation 9004

[55ft ^TT f^TT *Fn, fV ^n*FTT ^t ?fK ^ ^fenft ^rt ^rr^ *jfa$ft*r whnt % fer ^RdT ^t Tfi I ? ^ft *rft ^tch ^f^rrr ^t fernr t^t I 1 ^T *T*«RI ^ 1 'd'H fen^T ^ ^y> ^ (-H !+% fir ^ ?ft*rf ^t ^t ^ft ^r^t fen, %fer fa rfa ^ T | ?Tfc W fe T t STRcTT «<§d ^T YTHT 5?T^r g fa sn*r *ft t *rra1 m\'H ^t ^rhr ^t ^rfy^nx ^ n ^r^t f e n w ^ 1 ^ fan ^ ^ ^ tff MrndT $\< IT iT^ipft ^?t O Tt 4\J\ m i i ^t ^ €t ^rnr i vx warm q?t ^ ^ft Tpf ^rtr t t o r Tfhrnr ^ r i ^T 4 ldl TfT ^ fa f^RT #cft ^t ^nft«T f ^ ?r^ n f qr

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allowance for that. Any '/ay, there dnring this relief work alone has been have been reasons, but the main diffi­ to the tune of about Rs. 9 crores. Doles culty before the Government of India etc. and other facilities had to be hag been that since 1946 mere have provided. been waves after waves of these refugees, displaced peisons, uprooted The capacity in Mana camp itself families, crossing the Border and at the very beginning was only for 500 coming, both from the east and tne families. We expected that these west. Up to the end of 1963, about 41 families would come to Mana camp lakhs and °dd had already c'-ue, from and that we shall be dispersing them East Pakistan and now this year 9 after some time to outside places and lakhs and odd have come. They are to other camps for permanent rehabili­ still coming. tation. But actually waves of people came; the trend was once so big that Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: You 3,100 started coming per day. There are only rehabilitating three lakhs. was space there for only 500 families. So it became very difficult. Imme­ Shri Tyagi: They are still coming. diately new hutments were put up. J must give credit to the border States 10.000 hutments were built within a of West Bengal, Tripura and Assam. few days and about 115 tube-wells They have done wondsrfully well. It were dug. ■was such a big crisis there, with hosts The House might remember it* of people coming, thousands at a Lime. anxiety during those days when for The average once went up to 3,000 want of accommodation and due to per day, these families, and parti­ the heat quite a Irage number of cularly the credit goes to the Assam families were deserting those camps. Government. It was a difficult task for It was a matter of worry and concern them, because in the Mizo Hills, when for the whole nation. People put their there was a wave of these displaced best talents there, and one Public -persons coming from that side, it Works Section was created, and they became difficult for them to take them made those achievements in such a out of those hills on account of the short time. lack of roads, etc. They put in their ~best talents, and the people of the As hon. Members know, the influx Army Border Police and others also by now has reached the figure of co-operated, and within about 9.59.000 persons. But I have just col­ twenty-five days they put up a sort lected some other figures, and the *of a track by which they could bring House might perhaps be surprised to thos-s refugees to the mam planes know that out of 1,97,000 people who where they had put up camps. came with passports and visas, quite Temporary camps, transit camps were a lot have also returned. Because, put up and Rs. 15 lakhs were spent. people who come with passport, most But they did the job very well. They of them to not come with the inten­ had to come hundreds of miles wading tion of settling here is also a trend through marshy lands and water, they that even without any riots or dis­ had to walk and come. And arrange­ turbances, people with passports do ments were also made for providing usually come and go back. So my trucks, for hospitals. Wherever there information is that out of these were camps, arrangements of all 1 .97.000 passport-holders, only about types, for the natural, primary faci­ 888 surrendered their passports and lities which a human being needs, decided to stay in India. Quite a like shelter, food, hospital arrange­ number have thus gone back, no ments, had to be made. doubt. At present there are 96 camps. Nine There are at present in the camps of them are run by the Central Gov­ 24 hospitals running and Rs. 80,49,000 ernment and the others by the State has been spent on hospitals. There “Governments. The total amount spent are 47 schools in the camps and about 90i i D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation

[Shri Tyagi] Rs. 14.3 lakhs has been spent on given any comforts, that they were schools. Some further information is starving or half-starving and all that. given here. All these educational In that connection it is difficult for facilities are given to them, and to me to go on praising my own minis­ their children. What I and the Min­ try’s arrangements because the best istry felt was that these elderly peo­ praise is one which is given by others. ple have spent their lives, they have Some others must praise you. Self­ only to live for the living, but that praise is no compliment to me. In the future of the children should not this connection the House might like be marred at any cost, because if they to know that a team of the World are to get properly rehabilitated they Council of Churches had come from must receive proper education in their outside. There wag one Mr. A childhood. Therefore, wherever there Mouravieff-Apostol and Mr. J. A. E. ig a camp, such educational arrange­ Bazalgette. They wrote back after ments have essentially to be made. going round Dandakaranya and other places. What they say is noteworthy. Shri Priya Gupta (Katihar): In I quote: their own mother tongues? “Due to misconceptions abroad, Shri Tyagi: Everywhere, practically we were surprised and deeply im­ in all the camps. pressed to find that the conditions of refugees in Camps are of the Shri Priya Gupta: What is ‘practi­ highest order. With four years* cally*? experience in Europe’s post-war refugee camps, we found that, Shri Tyagi: There may be some ex­ standard for standard, the Indian ception when we find we are not able camp buildings, hygiene, cleanli­ to put up one. I don't want to be ness and living conditions of refu­ accused of giving wrong information gees were at least as good as those to this House. in Europe’s richer and easier con­ ditions and, in most cases, bet­ Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: It is ter___they were certainly better only in the primary stage. In the off than the conditions the re­ secondary stage, nowhere it is in the fugees were used to in their mother tongue. (Interruption.) former habitats, which we had Shri Tyagi: What do you want. ourselves previously visited.*. Hindi? (Interruptions). I may assure the House that even in Madhya Pra­ Shri Indrajit Gupta (Calcutta desh and even other places, these South-west)': Is thial a comparison schools, primary schools and other with the conditions in which Nazi schools* are run in Bengalee, the Germany kept their prisoner^ there?' language which they know. It is in their own mother tongue. It is not Shri Tyagi: This is what is put in TTindi or English or any other langu­ the original, which I have read. age like Malayalam. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is an inde­ sft srmit (f^rrc) : pendent opinion. spt i Shri Tyagi: I don’t know if the Shri Tyagi: My hon. friend Shri news of the refugees being comfort­ Y. N. Singh who was the very first able should be painful to my hon. speaker safcd in his speech that the friend. I thought that the in forma­ facilities given and the conditions^ in tion that they were comfortable will' the camps were very bad, hygienic give you some pleasure; but I ant and otherwise, that they were not afraid . . . 9013 G.—Min.CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation 901 4

An. hon. Member: Have you read of units of tractors, etc., are already the reports of the Estimates Com­ available for reclamation and about mittee? 18,540 acres have been reclaimed al­ Shri Tyagi: My predecessor Shri ready. There are 62 schemes sanc­ Khanna had already made all tioned for the purpose of rehabilita­ arrangements before I took over. tion of the displaced persons and the They had done it wonderfully well. cost of these schemes is Rs. 806 lakbs. Even though the strain was too much, There are 83 other schemes. These they did the job in time, and did it schemes will cover 24,193 families. so wonderfully well. Sanctioned schemes under implemen­ tation are quite a lot. I would not Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Have take the time of the House in just you read the Estimates Committee’s explaining all these schemes, but report? - these schemes are already sanction­ A il hon. Member: What about West ed. Bengal? Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: The Shri Bade (Khargone): We want to Tripura Administration has not rep­ know what you will do for the future lied at all. You sayf it is ‘wonderful’. and whether they will be allowed to come here. When Parliament is in Shri Tyagi: About rehabilitation, session we are not going to allow the Sir, there are in all 67,700 families in Minister to seal the border without the camps who have sought rehabili­ the Parliament’s consent. tation and relief. Relief is given to them. About he rehabilitation we Mr. Deputy-Speaker: You cannot made a survey. Out of 67,700 fami­ • make another speech, Mr. Bade. You lies, 50,000 are agriculturists. Offers don’t allow him to proceed. What is of resettlement have been received this? from various State Governments and there, we hope that 80,100 families Shri Tyagi: I just wanted to put can be accommodated on the lands this before the House. I thought that offered. There are lands offered in the House would be happy to know States including Andamans, Andhra what we are going to do rather than Pradesh, Assam, Madhya Pra­ reply to the criticism which we can desh, Maharashtra, NEFA, Uttar do any time. Pradesh, Bihar, Manipur, Tri­ pura and Dandakaranya. All told, it Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Re­ comes to about 2,62,000 acres. I am garding old migrants, there are more 1 grateful to these State Governments. than 7,800 old migrants plus the new Ag my hon. friend Shri Sharma has migrants that have been there. You said, it is a proof positive of the fact have given land to about 6,000. How that this problem is not only the pro­ much longer will you take to even blem of the border States, but is an cover that amount? A number of all-India problem, problem concern­ them are waiting for years, not the ing the whole of India. The whole new ones. of India is facing it, and shouldering Shri Tyagi: Let me mention this. the responsibility. Out of this area There are so many schemes sanction­ of 2,62,000 acres the cultivable area ed. There are 65 schemes which will should be about 1,50,000 acres, be­ cover about 12,992 families. It means cause there are quite

[Shri Tyagi] available. Very soon the jatties will Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Sir, be built up. 4,000 acres are avail­ on a point of order. We have been able in Betapur. The reclamation given these reports and it is written work has already started. 200 in these reports specifically that of ' Sahkaris and families have already those who had gone to the relief reached Andamans. Another 200 camps 203 were found to be DPs* families will follow within a couple who had received rehabilitation bene­ of days. They are doing that work. fits earlier. That is out of about one I hope very soon Andamans will also million people who had come from be a live island and some industries Bast Pakistan. How can the Minis­ will also be set up there. ter mislead the House now in such a gross way. About Dandakaranya, enough had been said yesterday and I am not Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What is thet going into this discussion once again. point of order? If there is any mis­ There have been certain objections take it can be rectified? to or screening. Why screening was Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: It is started? Screening was primarily already here, in the report. How can done with a view to finding out what he states something different and was their profession when they were mislead the House like this? in Pakistan so that similar conditions of employment could be provided Shri Tyagi: When the hon. lady here. Suppose there are some fisher­ Member speaks, I am accustomed to men. We will take the fishermen yielding to her. Let me make it clear and make suitable arrangements for that screening has not yet been com­ them. We will find out how many pleted. Hardly a part of the camp fishermen were there, so that fishing has been screened and the result of arrangements might be made for that is that about 1,200 people were them. Weavers might be provided found; I have a list of people who with weaving instruments and weav­ had been prosecuted or ejected after ing facilities. It is for that purpose due enquiries-----(Interruptions) In that screening was started. During the matter of these imposters, I shall the course of screening these were show no sympathy and we will deal so many other matters involved. We with them according to law. also wanted to know through screen- Shri EL N. Makerjee (Calcutta Cen­ mg which, people belonged to which village so that in the process of tral): Sir, there is a point of order. rehabilitating they may be put toge­ I would like you to determine for ther with their acquaintances and the sake of the House if it is open their relations. to the Minister to supply a set of facts as part of his report and at the Shri Priya Gupta: Screeing is for same time make a statement which selection of trade? contradicts that set of facts without giving and explanation Shri Tyagi: To know who is who, of the real position? If he were to where one comes from. In the course come forward and say that the facts of screening we found that there given there have to be added to or * were a number of imposters who had substracted from or changed in a already enjoyed rehabilitation bene­ substantial manner, I can understand fits for years together. him. But ig it open to the Minister— Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: What I am asking you from the point of is the number? view of procedure of the House— to supply the Members one set of Shri Tyagi: Thousands (Interrupt facts and then state here another set Hons) It is always a pleasure to yield of facts which is contradictory? That to the hon. Member. ( Interruptions.) is the point of order. 90 17 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation 9018

M.r Deputy-Speaker: If there is any mistake it can be cleared. He can write to me and I will send it to t rr w m i qrfar- the Minister so that he may make a statement and get it cleared. But there is no point of order here. Shri Tyagi: Uupto-date we have been able to screen only 9,700 famil­ Shri Tyagi: If any hon. Member ies. The House would be surprised to quote some figures here, I am not know that sixty per cent of the D.Ps. responsible for those figures. had left half their families in Pakistan. Conditions there are not good, I am Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: See sure. But at the same time let us report of the Estimates Committee. not go on painting the worst picture. As sixty per cent of these people had Shri Tyagi: It is unfortunate. I left half their families behind, I can never obstructed her. I have already well understand sometime they are stated that all the camps had not yet going back to see their own people in been screened. On the first day, Pakistan. Therefore, desertions take hardly one man was found. For ten place; that is also one of the reasons. days no man might 'have been found. We tried to find out how many of Suddenly one man might be found on them were agriculturists. 75 per cent one day. These figures are liable to of these families claim that they were be changed. It cannot be a perma­ agriculturists. 26 per cent were land­ nent figure. The day on which the less, 25 per cent were non-agricul­ report was printed that could have turists. There was insistent demand been the figure and therefore, that from the House that I must make figure was given. But this process is survey of how much property these still going on. I am receiving every DPs had left behind. That was also day these figures. People are desert­ one of the reasons for screening. A. ing for fear of screening. That is survey was done. I wanted to know still going on. This figure which I how much property or land they pos­ am quoting now is not complete or sessed. There has not been a conf- final figure. Figures are still coming plete survey; I can only call it a and therefore I could not give the sample survey. 30-35 per cent of exact figure; that is why I say they these DPs are such as have either no are in thosaunds ___(Interruptions). land or only less than one bigha of I cannot allow any imposters in my land. 40 per cent are those who own­ camps and only those persons who are ed more than one bigha. qualified to receive relief and rehabi­ Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: Have you litation benefits will receive them. taken any steps to do anything re­ garding the property left behind? Shri Priya Gupta: Please prescribe their qualifications of eligibility to Shri Tyagi: We are ascertaining cross the border. from them. They have left some members of their families because Shri Tyagi: There are persons who their property is there; there are had sold all the lands, five acres, given some elderly men or members of to them and come back as refugees. family there looking affer the house There are others who had sold their or the property or trying to dispose cows. Again, after coming into the it of. I do hot resent it. He may camp their behaviour is not very perhaps be coming after selling IK good. Therefore, screeing will be or otherwise disposing It of. I do not adhered to at all costs and I submit want to dilate on other matters. Some to the House that they must also help friends talked about desertions. There me in the matter, rather than ob­ were desertions of 19104 families. structing. There was a rule that all those who 219 (Ai) LSD—6 . 9O I9 G- Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9020

[Shri Tyagi] desert the camps will not be taken ^ Shri Tyagi: As soon as the Screen­ in again. But I felt that if they felt ing Team reached the Camp, it was that they were misguided by others found that quite a number of families \fter deserting the camps and if they instead of offering themselves for wanted to be taken back to the camps, screening had abandoned the camps they should not be penalised for and they made their own arrange­ doing something momentarily. After ments (Interruptions). all they are helpless people. About 7600 persons had come back and they were allowed to come back into the Shrimati Renu Chakravartty made camps. f '^ !i a point. She said that there were permanent liability migrants (ladies). 15 hrs. She perhaps was under the impression that nothing was done about them. Desertions were due to unwillingness to work. Mostly what we found was Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: It that when work of the manual nature was not my point. ( ) was given to them, they generally re­ Interruptions fused. There were others—those im­ posters__ who come in the way. Those Shri Tyagi: I have heard the hon. who were prepared to do the manual Member. The P. L. families had to be removed from West Bengal as their work were told by the imposters homes were over crowded and there *Don’t go. We shall not allow you to was no possibility of absorbing new go. Until the Action Committee ap­ P.L. families in West Bengal. They proves, nobody can take any work.* They obstructed because their ambi­ were taken to Mana group of transit tion was to get land and not the man­ centres where they being looked ual work. Even those persons who after adequately. They are receiving were working hard in East Pakistan, cash doles. Vocational training in I don’t know why they should not be weaving, tailoring etc. have been ar­ prepared to work willingly here also ranged for them. Government intend ( ). to shift these families to existing Interruptions homes in sizeable groups. As the num­ ber of vacancies in the existing sft fa*! sft &W % homes are not sufficient, Government | ^ 37FT fa n 3TT# I intend to set up new homes in Tripura, Dandakaranya and Uttar *rrf|f* t ft> srrit ^ ^ rr Pradesh. (Interruptions). f 1 *ft farcr £ ^ ^TTT TOcTT I 1 fa # As regards the conditions in the |tT. ^nr extisting P. L| homes in West Bengal or else where, these institutions are ' r> .tflKwv-*’ *.* ' 9021 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) 0/ Rehabilitation 9022

Member sitting in front also touched and non-T. B. beds are to the tune of this point ahd she was very sore about Els. 1*97 crores and the amounts have it1 and I ftnow she had. been writing to been paid . to West Bengal Govern­ me aiid hfod been anxious about the ment under loans and grants during residuary problem for sometime. My 1964-65. hoh.’ friend Shrimati Renuka Ray was al^o very much insistent and every Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May time she brought this problem before I ask one question? the Ministry. I know, Sir, that the problem was not solved completely. I Mr. Deputy-Speaker: After he know it was not. It was pointed out finishes. as if nothing had been done in this connection. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: All right, Sir. The total expenditure on relief and rehabilitation of displaced persons from East Pakistan since partition Shri Tyagi; Central Government had been Rs. 212 crores. Problem in have not gone back on any com­ States other than West Bengal was mitments. Our hon. friend, Shrimati practically solved by 1960-61. Bulk of Renuka Ray- was very anxious and the problem in West Bengal was solv­ insistent oh this. I can assure her that ed by March, 1962. Chit of 32 lakhs we have not going back on any com­ D. Ps. in West Bengal, 23 lakhs were mitments made to West Bengal Gov­ ernment. giving rehabilitation assistance.

Now, Sir, the expenditure in West With regard to this residuary pro­ Bengal on relief and rehabilitation blem, we are prepared to sanction the since partition upto the end of 1964-66 remaining schemes. All these schemes has been Rs. 127 crores. Residuary have been accepted in principle under problems in West Bengal were asses­ residuary problem. We are anxious sed in 1960-61 and the assessment was that the schemes sholud be implemen made that Rs. 22 crores more wfere ted properly and the object of rehabi­ needed to complete the rehabilitation litation achieved soon. o f old refugees. Out of Rs. 22 crores, schemes worth Rs. 9*90 crores metning thereby about Rs. 10 crores were al­ For education and medical schemes, ready approved under residuary pro­ grants are given to the State Govern­ blem. Schemes for acquisition for 513 ment. For other schemes, money is Government sponsored and squatters’ sanctioned as loans to the State Gov­ colonies at a cost of Rs. 4*49 crores ernment. Here comes the question were sanctioned. 1290 beds were which is under discussion between •sanctioned for hospitals etc. costing the State Government of the West Rs. 1*18 crores. 548 Primary Schools Bengal and the Central Government. were sanctioned at a cost of Rs. 44 There is a history behind it. On 14th lakhs, and grants were also given to December, 1948, on loans given by 440 schools and 2 colleges at a. cost of States to D. Ps. who had gone to Rs. 1*11 crores. Sanction for alterna­ West Bengal by that time, it was tive accommodation to squatters decided that the losses which will (1248 families) at a cost of Rs25 lakhs be incurred will be shared at the rate was also given. Provision for addi­ of 50:50 between the State Govern­ tional agricultural land for 3,712 fami­ ment and the Central Government. lies costing Rs. 34 lakhs has also been Here losses mean losses on realisation. made. Other schemes are being pro­ If an instalment of say Rs. 1 lakh cessed and the amount paid to the was due, only Rs. 50,000 was received Government of West Bengal since and the other half could not be re­ 1-4-61 has been Rs. 12 crores. Even alised, then that Rs. 50,000 loss would during 1964-65, sanctions issued for be shared by the two Governments ^Primary Schools, Secondary Schools on 50:50 basis. 9 ° 23 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9024

[Shri Tyagi] Then, Sir, Shrimati Renuka Ray Shri Tyagi: The question as to again insisted on this when I was then which party should receive the loan in charge of the Ministry of Finance was left to the discretion of the State in the Revenue and Expenditure Government. Questions such as to Division, she came to me— have a which party and for what purpose soft corner for her always—and she the loans should be given were left said that for the future, all cent per­ to the discretion of the State Gov­ cent loans will have to be borne by ernments. What to realise and how the Central Government. I agreed to realise w

sft : snft mpMdM *f 3 ft Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Unless the If^ld ^ I -Htfl ^ T Minister yields, the hon. Members cannot go on talking. qr w r Rr^fd | i w s f k Hlfofdld «RT% ^rr TPT w * K + K Shri Tyagi: In spite of that, in­ qr | i structions have already been issued by, the Home Ministry that these rules should not be enforced rigo­ s ft f i w : 4 ft *T ft^T 3f t rously. (Interruption) If hon. Mem­

and that the Government will take Shri Bade: He must reply to our due note of the developments from question. We are not here to hear time to time. his sermons. Passport and migration certificates were introduced for the first time Mr. Deputy-Speaker: You should in 1952. ( Interruption) patiently hear him. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Hon. Mem­ Shri Priya Gupia: Mr. Tyagi has bers cannot go on interrupting like no brother or sister there. That is this. why he is saying like this. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Shri Priya Gupta: He is conti­ You cannot go on like this. nuously reading, Sir. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: We Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He should feel very much disturbed because he not be disturbed like this. If there not only says there will be screening, are any question to be asked, they can to which"we have no objection, but be asked at the end ' he says that they can come here only if the Government of India or West Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: He does Bengal Government do not have to not understand our feelings. He has pay anything by way of rehabilita­ sealed the border and he is giving tion benefits. People have been false statements. ( Interruptions). robbed of everything and they are coming in a stage which really calls Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. for the greatest amount of sympathy. Hon. members must be patient and He was shedding crocodile tears a hear the minister. If they have any little while ago. Now he says, they questions, they can ask at the end. can come here only if they say that Why are they disturbing the speech they will not ask for any money for of the minister? their rehabilitation. (Interruptions). Shri Priya Gupta: He is disregard­ ing the sentiments of so many mem­ fa* iTCI : «T.f bers. ( Interruptions).

ffcft rft ^ ^ % i Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Everybody should sit down. We cannot go on like this. Some order and decorum sft ernrft: wr t o t should be maintained t 1 ^ *ft f , t tft Shri Bade: He must respect our snn: w fi ^tqrar jra emotions. All the hon. members are % faqfld w | i saying that they should not seal the mfatT wrr qf Pakistan border, because the situation has not eased in Pakistan and the ^TT I minorities should be allowed to come here. When the Parliament is in Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is session, it is shameful on the part of no point of order. government to seal the border. (In­ terruptions). Shri Tyagi: In the very beginning, I had expressed my regret if there Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He is reply­ was any lapse on my part in thiq r e ­ ing to the arguments advanced by gard. I was trying to put before the you. You should hear him. (In- House all the facts to see if really it ■ terruptions). was a mistake. It is not a question 9031 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1905 of Rehabilitation

[Shri IVagi] of their losing temper over this the cause of the rejection, because it matter. (Interruptions). must have varied from application to application. (Interruptions). It is not Shri Bade: Our brothers are there difficult to get the migration certifi­ in Pakistan and Pakistan is on inimi­ cate. It is a routine thing and it has cal terms with us. The Congress become so simple, when an applica­ created PaJfistan. Why don’t you tion is submitted, the migration certi­ allow them to come here? ficate is issued on that very day. At Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Don’t present, there are about 2000 applica­ expect any sympathy from him. (In. tions in their hands which are being teruptions). decided. It was alleged that the applicants have to go to Dacca twice Shri Tyagi: After the first influx and stay in Dacca for a long time. It in 1952, Government imposed this was also alleged that the applications restriction of passports and migration were being summarily rejected. That certificates, which went on and nobody it not so. (Intrruptions). was permitted to come without migra­ tion certificates and to have any relief or rehabilitation benefits. But again There are many other points, but I difficulty was felt, because conditions think the House is not very happy T/ith in Pakistan were bad and be­ me because of these restrictions. came difficult. So, in 1956 orders were given that a system of priority must be introduced, because Shri Dinen Bhattacharya: Say that to obtain a migration certificate was from today you are withdrawing your really a difficult job. (Interruption). order sealing the border. In 1958 again it was revived and the decision was taken that even those Shri Tyagi: I can say that there is who came with migration certificates no lack of sympathy on this side for would not be entitled to any relief or the PDPs and we will see to it that rehabilitation benefits. ( Interrup­ no genuine DP suffers. Every cast' tion). What is the harm in narrating will be decided sympathetically, but the previous history, which is a fact? surely strict scrutiny will have to be I carmot help it. In 1958, the decision made. ( Interruptions). I would sug­ was taken that even those who came gest to my friend to go to his leader with migration certificates would not and ask him in what way he should be entitled to any relief or rehabilita- behave in Parliament. I have been ticn benefits. This was going on. authorised by the Chair to speak. I Suddenly there was another burst-up can assure the House that the senti­ in Pakistan. The situation became ments expressed in the House will al­ so bad that we had to change the deci­ ways be respected. I can personally sion and permit even those who came say that I do not consider that I am without migration certificates to take the master of the House. I am the the benefits of relief and rehabilitation servant of the House. If my friends offered here. are angry, I know what their feelings are. They are not shouting for their About the migration certificates, the selfish ends. Even their shouts are Deputy High Commissioner’s office in motivated by patriotic feelings and I Dacca was contacted. From 1st Jan­ do not take them ill. I can assure uary, 1964, as I said, the number of hon. members that their sentiments applications for migration certificates will be respected, but will the House which were rejected was only 3591. also bear with me and not force me to My hon. friend, Shri Guha, had asked take to a policy by which the border Jiow many applications were rejected. may be disturbed? There days are (Interruptions). I cannot narrate now bad. Let us have time orA we shall D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Rehabilitation 9034

see to it that genuine DPs do not Dr. M. M. Das: About that we will suffer. have a discussion with the Govern­ ment of West Bengal and we will Shrimati Beau Chakravartty: Sir, take some decision. If it is a pledge the amounts of money that have been it must be implemented. sanctioned—they have been read out to him—have all been—at least a very Shrimati Renuka Ray (Malda): Shri large part of it—held up in imple­ Tyagi is new to this Ministry. I mentation specially because it is im­ would like to ask him one question. possible to acquire land at the ceiling As there is no such thing as evacuee rates at which the Central Govern­ property against which loans could ment is insisting. Therefore, even be adjusted, have you considered the after sanctioning money all these can­ plea made long ago by the Govern­ not be implemented. I want to know, ment of West Bengal that loans up to in answer to a specific question, a certain amount should be turned whether the appeal of the West into grants? Is that going to be done Bengal Government to raise the ceil­ or not? ing of land for acquisition proceedings is going to be acceded to or will they Dr. M. M. Das: Against the money continue to just sanction schemes that was paid to the refugees from which cannot be implemented in East Pakistan, large amounts of re­ practice? mission have been made. About Rs. 50 crores have been remitted and Secondly, whether in respect of all out of that Rs. 38 crores have gone those who have come before 31st to West Bengal. March 1958, which is the dead line, after which no rehabilitation bene­ Shrimati Renuka Ray: My point is fits were being given till 1st January whether you have recognised the 190>4, and who have not received any principle that they should be treated rehabilitation benefit!, the Govern­ as grants and not loans up to a cer­ ment will not shirk or ignore Iheir tain point. responsibility? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Dr. M. M. Das: W i cannot say that This is not a Question Hour. the West Bengal Government’s appeal Dr. M. M. Das: Perhaps tha hon. will be acceded to by the Central lady Member wanted to know the Government. But the matter is under position about compensation. My discussion, and certainly we have to senior colleague has already said take some decision on this point. that about 60 per cent of the refugees who have come have got their rela­ Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: What tions in East Pakistan looking after about my second question, that reha­ their property there. bilitation benefits to those who have come before 31st March 1958—those Shrimati Renuka Ray: That is not who have not received rehabilitation true of earlier refugees as the hon. benefits up to that point of time but Minister should know. whose responsibility the Government is pledged to undertake—-will not be Ignored. Shri P. R. Chakraverti: In the con­ text of the assurance given by Shri Swaran Singh, Minister of External Dr. M. M. Das: We will bear in Affairs in reply to my question, that, mind the sentiment of the hon. lady with the changed situation, the Gov­ Member. ernment is likely to revise the deci­ sion—the latest decision banning the Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: This entry of refugees—may I know whe­ was a pledge. ther, pending the revision, the D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Rehabilitation 9036

[Shri P. R. Chakraverti] Minister has taken it up with the like that and ban it. I want to know Ministry of External Affairs the ques­ whether the Government is not fall­ tion of opening Khulna, Barisal and ing back from what Shri Nanda said, Dinajpur offices for the issue of visas? by banning the entry of the migrants into India? Shri Tyagi: That is a question which Mr. Deputy -^Speaker: He has ans­ has already been replied. Practically wered it in detail. I shall now put on the same lines the Legislative As­ the cut motions to the vote of the sembly of West Bengal passed a re­ House. Shri Yashpai Singh is not solution. The chief Minister also had here. I shall put cut motions 1 to 6. given a reply in that respect, in Ihe course of the discussion. That is a Cut motions Nos. 1 to 6 were put matter which will surely be consi­ and negatived. dered. I assure the hon. Member that with regard to those restrictions Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Sir, every care shall be taken to see that cut motions 15, 16 and 17 may be put migration certificates are easily issued separately. and they are safe while going or coming or asking for applications. As Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question and when there are disturbances we is*. shall accommodate them. It is not as if we shall leave them in the lurch "That the demand under the head like this. Expenditure on Displaced Persons be reduced by Rs. 100.” Shri Priya Gupta: Sir, during our last meeting with the Home Minister, [Constant effort of Government in Shri G. L. Nanda, after the genocide reducing their liabilities with regard in East Pakistan when in the delega­ to influx of refugees and their re­ tion Shri N. C. Chatterjee, myself habilitation (15)] and Shri A. B. Vajpayee attended, we The Lok Sabha divided: demanded and it was assured by him that anybody who is willing to come Shri Shashi Ranjan: My vote has down from East Pakistan to India not been recorded. It is for ‘Noes’ will be allowed. When Shri Nanda told about the food position, I said that we will share our hunger with them. Now after the holocaust and sft HTo (*T§*TT) : subsequent border attacks, intrusions *hr stptt 1 1 and other circumstances, there is no question of any easing of tensions. It f I fC=FT^ fcPTT STTq- | is very nice to say from here some­ thing which, as if has been seen Mr. Deputy-Speaker: They will be through a telescope, just to view it recorded.

Division No. 10] AYES [15- 36 hrs.

Alvarcs, Shri Chakravartty, Shrimati Renu Onksr Singh, Shri Pattnayak, Shri Kishan Bade, Shri Elias, Shri Mohammad ' Bhattacharya, Shri Dinen Gupta, Shri Inderjit. Reddy, Shri Narslmha Singh, Shri Y.D. Bheel, Shri P.H. Gupta, Shri Priya Warior, Shri Buta Singh, Shri Krishnapal Singh, Shri NOES Baaappa, Shri Achuthnn, Shri Balmiki, Shri Bhinja Deo, Shri L.N. Anjaaappa, Shri Barkataki, Shrimati Renuka 9037 G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAXA) of Rehabilitation 903,8>

Bhattacharyya, Shri C.K. Malaichami, Shri Sharma, Shri A.P. Chakraverti, Shri P.R- Manaen, Shri Shashi Ran j an, Shri Chandrabhan Singh, Shri Mehrotra, Shri Braj Bihari Sheo Narain, Shri Chaturvedi, Shri S.N. Menon, Shri P.G. Shyam Kumari Devi, Shrimati Chaudhuri, Shrimati Kama!a Murti, Shri M.S. Siddananjappa, Shri Chuni Lai, Shri Muthiah, Shri Sidheshwar Prasad, Shri Das, Dr. M.M. Pande, Shri K.N. Sinha, Shrimati Ramdulari Das, Shri N.T. Patel, Shri Rajeshwar Subbaraman, Shri Gandhi, Shri V.B. Rai, Shrimati Sahodra Bai Subramanyam, Shri T. Iqbal Singh, Shri Raj Bahadur, Shri Sumat Prasad, Shri Kanungo, Shri Raju, Shri D.B. Swamy, Shri M.P. Keishing, Shri Riahang Ram, Shri T. Tiwary, Shri K.N. Kripa Shankar, Shri Rane, Shri Tiwary, Shri R.S. Kriahnamachari, Shri T.T. Rao, Shri Rameahwar Tyagi, Shri Kureel, Shri B.N. Ray, Shrimati Renuka Varma, Shri Ravindra Lakshmikanthamma, Shrimati Sadhu Ram, Shri Vidyalankar Shri A.N. Lalit Sen, Shri Saha, Dr. S.K. Vijaya Ananda, Maharajkumar' Mahadeo Prasad, Shri Sahu, Shri Rameshtfar Vyas, Shri Radhelal Mahishi, Dr. Sarojini Saraf, Shri Sham Lai Yadava, Shri B.P. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The result of [Failure to grant citizenship to re­ the division, as shown by the machine, fugees even after fulfilling the terms is: Ayes 15; Noes 63- laid down in Citizenship Law. (16)]. The Lok Sabha divided: The motion was negatived. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: My vote has not been recorded. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: My cut motion Nos. 16 and 17 may be Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It will not put together. affect the result of the division. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Still, I would like to have it recorded. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: They cannot be put together. I will take them Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya: Even one by one. The question is: the lights have been ashamed. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: By “That the demand under the head your attitude. Expenditure on Displaced Persons Shri C. K. Bhattacheryya: They be reduced by Rs. 100.” have not failed us. Division No. 11 ] AYES [i V 38 hrs.

Alvares, Shri Elias, Shri Mohammad Pattnayak, Shri Kishan Bade, Shri Gupta, Shri Indrajit Reddy, Shri Narasimha Bhattacharya, Shri Dinen Gupta, Shri Priya Singh, Shri Y.D. Bheel, Shri P.H. Krishnapal Singh, Shri Warier, Shri Buta Singh, Shri Ornkar Singh, Shri

NOBS

Achuthan, Shri Chuni Lai, Shri Kureel, Shri B.N. Anjanappa, Shri Das, Dr. M.M. Lakshmikanthamma, Shrimati Barkataki, Shrimati Renuka Das, Shri N.T. Lalit Sen, Shri Basappa, Shri Gajraj Singh Rao, Shri Mahadeo Prasad, Shri Bhaaja Deo, Shri L.N. Gandhi. Shri V.B. Mahishi, Dr. Sarojini Bhattacharyya, Shri C.K. Iqbal Singh, Shri Malaichami, Shri Chakraverti, Shri P.R. Jha, Shri Yogendra Manaen, Shri Chandrabhan Singh, Shri Kanungo, Shri Mehrotra, Shri Braj Bihari Chaturvedi, Shri S.N. Keishing, Shri Rishang Menon, Shri P.G. Chaudhry, Shri Chandramani Lai Kripa Shankar, Shri Mohan ty, Shri Gokulananda Chaudhuri, Shrimati Kamla Kriihnamgchari, Shri T.T. Murti, Shri M.S. ^19039 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 196o of Rehabilitation 9040

Muthiah, Shri Saha, Dr. S.K. Subramanyam, Shri T. Pande, Shri K.N. Sahu, Shri Ramcshwar Sumat Prasad, Shri Patel, Shri Rajeshwar Saraf, Shri Sham Lai Swamy, Shri M.P. Rai, Shrimati Sahodra Bai Sharma, Shri A.P. Tiwary, Shri K.N. Haj Bahadur, Shri Shashi Ran j an, Shri Tiwary, Shri R.S. 'Raju, Shri D.B. Sheo Narain, Shri Tyagi, Shri Ram, Shri T. Shyam Kumari Devi, Shrimati Varma, Shri Ravindra Rane, Shri Siddananjappa, Shri Vidyalankar, Shri A.N. Rao, Shri Ramcshwar Sidheshwar Prasad, Shri Vijaya Ananda, Maharajkumar Ray, Shrimati Renuka Sinha, Shrimati Ramdulari Vyas, Shri Radhelal Sadhu Ram, Shri Subbaraman, Shri Yadava, Shri B.P.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The result of “That the demand under the the division, as shown by the machine head Expenditure on Displaced is: Ayes 14, Noes 66. Persons be reduced b y Rs. 100.” . [Failure to carry out promises to The motion was negatived. rehabilitate all refugees coming to India up to 31st March, 1958. (17)] Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question is: The Lok Sabha divided: Division No. 12] AYES [15 40 hrs.

Alvares, Shri Charavartty, Shrimati Renu Omkar Singh, Shri Bade, Shri Elias, Shri Mohammad Pattnayak, Shri Kishen Bhattacharya, Shri Dinen Gupta, Shri Indrarjit Reddy, Shri Narasimha Bheel, Shri P.H. Gupta, Shri Priya Singh, Shri Y.D. Buta Singh, Shri Krishnapal Singh, Shri Warior, Shri

* i NOES

Kripa Shankar, Shri Saha, Dr. S. K. Achuthan, Shri Sahu, Shri Rameswar Anjanappa, Shri Krishnamachari, Shri T. T. Saraf, Shri Sham Lai Balmiki, Shri Lakshmikanthamma, Shrimati Sharma, Shri A. P. Barkatki, Shrimati Renuka. Lalit Sen, Shri Shashi Ranjan, Shri Basappa, Shri Mahadeo Prasad, Shri Sheo Narain, Shri dhanja Deo, Shri L.N. Mahishi, Dr. Sarojini Shyam Kumari Deri, Shrimati Bhattacharyya, Shri C.K. Malaichami, Shri Siddananjappa, Shri Bist, Shri J.B.S. Manaen, Shri Sidheshwar Prasad, Shri Chakraverti, Shri P. R. Mehxotra, Shri Braj Bihari Sinha, Shrimati Ramdulari Chandrabhan Singh, Shri Menon, Shri P. G. Sahara man, Shri Chaturvedi, Shri S. N. Mohanty, Shri Gokulananda Subramanyam, Shri T. C haudhury, Shri Chandramani Lai Murti, Shri M. S. Sumat Prasad, Shri Chaudhuri, Shrimati Kama la Muthiah, Shri Swamy, Shri M. P. ; Chuni Lai, Shri Pande, Shri K. N. Tiwary, Shri K. N. Das, Dr. M. M. Patel, Shri Rajeswar Tiwary, ShriR. S. Das, ShriN.T. Rai, Shrimati Sahodra Bai Tyagi, Shri ^ Gajraj Singh Rao, Shri Raj Bahadur, Shri Varma, Shri Ravindra Gandhi, Shri V. B. Ram, Shri T. Vijaya Ananda, Maharajkumar Iqbal Singh, Shri Rane, Shri Vimla Devi, Shrimati Jha, Shri Yogcndra Rao, Shri Ramcshwar Virbhadra Singh, Shri Kanungo, Shri Ray, Shrimati Renuka Vyas, Shri Radhelal Keishing, Shri Rishang ’ Sadhu Ram, Shri Yadava Shri B.P. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The result of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I will now put the division is: all the other cut motions to the vote of the House. Ayes 15; Cut motions Nos. 13, 14, 18 to 27 and Noes. 65. 30 to 32 were put and negatived. Mr. Deputy - Speaker: The question The motion was negatived. is: QOAI D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 iSAKA) D.G.—Min. of S°4Z of Rehabilitation {£■, Labour and Employment “That the respective sums not 15.44 hrs. exceeding the amounts shown in the fourth column of the order Ministry of Labour and Employment paper, be granted to the President, Mr. Deputy-Speaker The House to complete the sums necessary to will now take up discussion and vot­ defray the charges that will come ing on Demands Nos. 75 to 78 and 13T in course of payment during the relating to the Ministry of Labour and year ending the 31st day of March, Employment for which 6 hours have 1966, in respect of the heads of demands entered in the second been allotted. column thereof against Demands Hon. Members desirous of moving Nos. 84, 85 and 139 relating to the their cut motions may send slips to the Ministry of Rehabilitation.” Table within 15 minutes, indicating The motion was adopted. which of the cut motions they would like to move. [The motions of Demands for Grants which were adopted by the Lok Sabha Demand No. 75—Ministry of Labour are reproduced below—Ed.] and Employment Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov­ Demand No . 84— Ministry of Rehabi­ litation ed: “That a sum not exceeding. “That a sum not exceeding Rs. 32,20,000/- be granted to the Rs. 24,97,000 be granted to the President to complete the sum President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges necessary to defray the charges which will come in course of pay­ which will come in course of pay­ ment during the year ending the ment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1966, in respect 31st day of March, 1966, in respect of *Ministry of Rehabilitation’.” of ‘Ministry of Labour and Em­ ployment’.”

Demand No. 85— Expenditure on Dis­ Demand No. 76—Chief Inspector o r placed Persons Mines “That a sum not exceeding Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov­ Rs. 9,30,86,000/- ibe granted to the ed: President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges “That a sum not exceeding which will come in course of pay­ Rs. 34,09,000 be granted to the ment during the year ending the President to complete the sum 31st day of March, 1966, in respect necessary to defray the charges of ‘Expenditure on Displaced er- which will come in course of pay­ sons*.” ment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1966, in respect of 'Chief Inspector of Mines’.” Demand No. 139— Capital Outlay of the Ministry of Rehabilitation Demand No. 77—Labour and Employ ­ ment “That a sum not exceeding Rs. 9,19,20,000/- be granted to the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov­ President to complete the sum ed: necessary to defray the charges “That a sum not exceeding which will come in course of pay­ ment during the year ending the Rs. 11,24,35,000 be granted to the 31st day of March, 1966, in respect President to complete the sum of ‘Capital Outlay of the Ministry necessary to defray the charges of Rehabilitation’.” which will come in course of pay- 9° 43 *-*■ G. Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9044 [Mr. Deputy-Speaker] ment during the year ending the our experience we find that the Gov­ 31st day of March, 1966, in respect ernment has done nothing for the of 'Labour and Employment*.” workers, either for improving their conditions of work or for improving Demand No. 78 —Other Revenue Ex ­ their living standards. I will give a penditure of the Ministry of Labour few instances which will show clearly and Employment • that during the last seventeen years, in spite of all the big promises to the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov­ workers, the Government has not done ed: anything for them; rather, it has acted as the agent of the employers and the “That a sum not exceeding enemy of the working class. Rs. 8,27,000 be granted to the President to complete the sum Shri A. P. Sharma (Buxar): Ques­ necessary to d efray the charges tion. which will come in course o f pay­ ment during the year ending the Shri Mohammad Elias: I will give 31st day of March, 1966, in respect instances which will prove that our of ‘O ther Revenue Expenditure of Government is acting in favour of the the Ministry of Labour and Em­ employers. ployment'.” As you know, after independence, Demand No. 137—Capital Outlay of one of the major reasons for labour the Ministry of L abour and Employ ­ discontent in our country was the ment question of bonus. Because of that every year there were hundreds of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion mov- strikes, lock-outs and stoppage of *d: work. So, Government appointed the Bonus Commission and assured the “That a sum not exceeding workers that when the Bonus Com­ Rs. 4,85,000 be granted to the mission comes to an agreement, it will President to complete the sum be implemented. The Bonus Com­ necessary to defray the charges mission worked for more than three which will come in course of pay­ years to come to an agreed decision ment during the year ending the and ultimately it came to an agreed 31st day of March, 1966, in respect decision. It is a matter of great of ‘Capital outlay of the Ministry regret that due to the objection of one of Labour and Employment’ .” member to this agreed formula, the Government is going back on its pro­ Shri Mohammad Elias. mise. Government want to satisfy the Shri Buta Singh rose— employers by accepting the proposal of the employers. So, it is going to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He should modify the Bonus Commission formula. have stood up earlier. I am sorry, I have already called Shri Mohammad Millions of workers, who were look­ Elias. ing forward for the report of the Bonus Commission, who hoped and Shri Mohammad Elias (Howrah): dreamt that bonus will be available to Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, this is the them without any hardship, difficulty last year of the Third Five Year Plan or strike, they are disappointed and on the eve of the Fourth Plan the because Government is taking a deci­ Planning Commission has recently sion to modify the Bonus Commission recommended that the condition of formula in favour of the employers, labour must be improved because the So, at the very beginning of my speech, •labour has got to play a big role in I want to warn the Government that fulfilling the Fourth Plan. But from if it goes back from the recommenda­ 9045 D- G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 18 87 (SAKA) of Labour 9046 and Employment tions of the Bonus Commission which come down and appointed a commit­ is a majority decision of the members tee during the Third Five Year Plan of the Bonus Commission, if the Gov­ to go into the details on the basis otf ernment defies that recommendations calorie value. Recently, in the of the majority members of the Bonus month of August 1964, on the 23rd, Commission, the workers throughout the National Nutrition Advisory the country will never tolerate it and Committee has concluded that the they will resist it with all their average calorie requirement for a strength by resorting to strikes, young Indian industrial male worker demonstrations and so on. is 2,800 per day. This is 200 calories more than what the Pay Commission So, it is better for the Government has conceded. not to modify the Bonus Commission’s formula and to accept the majority What has happened to the recom­ decision which, although it is not mendation of the Nutrition Advisory going to fulfil hundred per cent the Committee? Why has the Govern­ interests dt the workers, will to some ment suppressed the valuable findings extent satisfy the workers on the of the Nutrition Advisory Committee? question of bonus. Shri A. P. Sharma These must be placed before the is laughing when I am talking about House and must be accepted, If we the Bonus Commission. calculate on the basis of the Nutri­ tion Advisory Committee’s recommen­ Shri A. P. Sharma: I am not dations—that means, 2,800 calorie laughing. I said, the Government value; even our INTUC friends have has already taken a decision about calculated on the basis of those re­ the Bonus Commission’s report. commendations ......

Shri Mohammad Ellas: But in what 15.53 hrs. direction? [Shrimati Renu Chakravartty in the Coming to the question of wages Chair.} in the beginning of the Five Year Plan Government assured that need- Shri A. P. Sharma: We have cal­ based wages will be given to workers. culated the same. But what has happened? After 15 years ci our planning, have the wor­ Shri Mohammad Elias: Yes; you kers got need-based wages up till have also calculated the same. The now? If we calculate, we see that INTUC has recommended that the wages are still below the 1950 level wages of an industrial worker must and the wages of 1950 were far below be Rs. 208 per month at the 1961 price the pre-war level. Actually, wages level. So, this should be the actual are gcmg down and Government has need-based wage of the industrial not been able to do anything in rela­ worker. But our Labour Minister has tion to wages. The wage boards are recommended to the State Govern­ not the policy-making bodies, the ments to raise minimum wages only wage boards have to give a decision to Re. 1 per day. He has not said on wage on the basis of the tiecd- that wages must be based on need. based minimum wage? The 22nd Standing Labour Committee When the Second Pay Commission has also recommended that DA., was set up they were asked to give should be linked with the index; but r, formula for the need-based wage. the Government are going back from .At that time the Government did not their decision. Even in I960 the tri­ allow the Pay Commission to cal­ partite committee had accepted that culate it on the basis of calorie value whatever recommendation is given by recommended by Dr. A. K. Roy and the Nutrition Advisory Committee, the accepted in tripartite; but, ultimate­ Government and the tripartite body ly, on our shouting, they had to will accept it. So, what is the Gov- 9° 47 G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9048

[Shri Mohammad Elias] emment doing in the direcion of ac­ higher and higher, but the Labour cepting the unanimous decision? Are Department will calculate thre cost o* they going to implement it? They living indices in a different manner. are not. In West Bengal a few months ago there was a cut in dearness allowance Now I come to the cost off living by 60 paise per week and in the jute index. The 22nd Standing Labour industry nearly three lakh workers Committee recommended that dear­ suffered; at the same time, nearly two ness allowance must be linked with lakh engineering workers got art in­ price indices in all cases to protect crement of Rs. lo in their dearness real wages. But has Government allowance. How are these calculated? taken a single step to implement this Howrah and Calcutta are just on op­ directive? When strikes are banned posite sides of the Ganges. If pri­ under the DIR without a moment’s ces go up in Calcutta, in Howrah also notice, when trade unionists are ar­ prices will go up. But here we find rested and detained under the DIR, that in Calcutta the new series of these mighty Rules are quite incap­ the index came down from 132 in able of forcing the employers to link October last year to 127 in December dearness allowance with the cost of 1964; while in Howrah the index re­ living indices. mained constant at 134. Howrah’s cost of living index remained the Then how are these cost of living same, but Calcutta’s cost of living in­ indices calculated? They are also cal­ dex, they calculated, had gone down. culated in a wrong way. When the How can this happen? It means, it trade unions brought this to the no­ is wrong. Not only it is wrong, we tice of Government, in the beginning must say that it is a fraud. Just to the Government did not agree and deprive the workers of their dearness said that there cannot be any wrong allowance the Government purposely calculation of the cost of living indi­ calculate in this way. It is just to ces; but when there was a threat of deprive the workers and help the em­ strike in Gujarat and Maharashtra ployers to accumulate crores and and there was agitation throughout crores of rupees. If some other per­ the country, the Government was son would have cheated some person, forced to appoint an extent committee. Government would have punished What decision has the expert commit­ that man as a cheat under section 420 tee given in Gujarat and Maharash­ of the Indian Penal Code. We can­ tra? They have found that there are not say that the Government should serious errors in the calculation of be punished under section 420 o f the cost of living indices and they the Indian Penal Code; but this is the have given some recommendation due way the whole machinery of the Gov­ to which the workers of Maharashtra ernment is acting as agents of emp­ and Gujarat have got a little improve­ loyers. ment in their dearness allowance. By not calculating the cost of living in­ 16 hrs. dices properly the Government has helped the employers to save crores Coming to wage boards, the major of rupees. So, I would urge upon industry in our country which has the Government not to calculate the suffered is the engineering industry. cost of living indices wrongly. They did not get any increment in their wages or emoluments. In the They say that the cost of living in­ engineering industry nearly lh million dices have not increased; but I shall workers are employed and the engi­ give one or two examples to show neering industry is one of the vital that they have. In the market ac­ industries. No country can make any tually every day the workers are ex­ progress without the development of periencing that prices are going the engineering industry; but these 90 49 *>• G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) o/ Labour 905O and Employment were deprived of the wage can succeed in that. Then, the adjudi­ board. Af.er a lot of agitation the cation will go on for years together wage board has been constituted. But and if the workers get some relief what about other industries; for ins­ from there, then the employers win tance, the road transport workers, the go to the High Court and then from workers of the Railways, the workers the High Court to the Supreme Court. o f other industries? Why are they not When that is done, by the time the getting the wage board? Why is the cases are disposed of, sometimes the Government so much afraid of cons- worker dies and nobody is able to get titutmg the wage board for them? the benefit of the judgment of the Let an impartial committee judge Supreme Court or any other tribunal. whether wages are actually right or The hon. Minister must see that the not. During the Railway Budget dis­ Industrial Disputes Act should be so cussion, the Railway Minister said amended that it should be easier for that there should be no wage board the workers to get the benefit of for the railwaymen. But at the same adjudication and conciliation. time, many State Labour Ministers, including the Labour Minister of Ma­ Then, there is the discrimination harashtra, supported the idea of hav­ between the INTUC and non-INTUC ing a wage board. Why is it that the unions. There are innumerable Government is not constituting the examples where the INTUC unions wage board for the railway workers? and non-INTUC unions are discrimi­ At the same time, I suggest that the nated by the Government. I shall give wage board for the road transport only one example. In the Vizag port, workers where nearly a million wor- there was a reference to adjudication workers are employed should be cons- and one union was declared as the titufted. We know thait the State Gov­ majority union. But after a few ernments are objecting to the consti­ months, when the question of repre­ tution of a wage board for road trans­ sentation came to the Trustee Board, port workers. They are the worst at that time the verification officer sufferers. Some workers in West declared that this was not the Bengal get only Rs. 60; some wor­ majority union. Within a few months kers in Bihar get only Rs. 40 and in hpw can a majority union become a Rajasthan they get Rs. 30. There is minority union and how can a mino­ total anarchy in the road transpor rity union become a majority unicn? system and even in the public sector, where the transport workers are emp­ loyed, their wages vary from fctaie Shri A. P. Sharma: It can be done to State. So, there should be a uni­ overnight as it was in Kerala. form wage structure for the road transport workers also. I strongly Shri Mohammad Elias: It is not plead for the constitution of a wage that. At that time, there was no such board for the railwaymen. problem. Now, I shall deal with the problem Then, there is the question of of adjudication and the functioning o public sector. Whatever decision is the conciliation bodies. Serious things taken, it is not implemented in the are happening. The conciliation ma­ public sector. Even in the public chinery has also completely failed m sector, for the workers to have an dealing with the workers’ problem. If adjudication becomes very difficulty I 1 go on giving examples, I shall be know of many such examples. Re­ exhausting all the time at my disposal- cently, in the Garden Seach Work­ Therefore, 1 shall not go into detai£ Shop, the staff r a i s e d some dwpute But it takes pne or two years for the about lour years ago before the Con workers to have adjudication of any ciliation Officer in West Bengal a.»d dispute. After a great agitation, they 219 (A i) LSD—7. 90 51 D‘ G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9052

[Shri Mohammad Elias] the Labour .Department in West Shri Mohammad Elias: Two points Bengal was convinced that the case more and I shall finish. should go to the adjudication body for Then, there is the question of conciliation. But the Labour Depart­ contract labour system. There have ment of West Bengal sent the matter been so many non-official resolutions to the Central Government and the in this House on the abolition of con­ Labour Ministry sent the matter to the Defence Department to see whether tract labour system. There was one during the last session or the session that should go to the tribunal or not. How will the Defence Department before and at that time the Minister said that this would be abolished. judge this thing? Their complaint is against the Defence Department. Now, There was a draft Bill which was discussed in the Standing Labour the Defence Department has to judge Committee and we find that instead whether that dispute should go to the of abolishing the contract labour tribunal or not. Even when the Labour system, they are going to regulate the Minister assured that the minimum 4 contract labour system. It is a shame per cent bonus will be given to all the on the part of the Government to public sector workers, this is not “regulate” this and not abolish it. This implemented. When this question was super exploitation of the labour must raised in the N.C.D.C., they behaved go. We want only two things. Instead in such a way as if they did not know of abolishing the contract system, you anything about this. They have com­ amend the Industrial Disputes Act by pletely turned down the proposal to saying that the principal employers implement the minimum 4 per cent will be responsible on the question of bonus to the N.C.D.C. workers. The wages and other amenities of the workers are now preparing to go on contract labour. This Act should be strike in order to have this decision amended and then only the contract implemented. labour will be satisfied.

Similarly, in many such public Mr. Chairman: He should c o ic'ude sector departments, they do not imple­ now. ment the directives of the Labour Shri Mohammad Elias: Just a word Department. They should be properly about the I.C.F.T.U. It is very well implemented and. this should he kn’own by the hon. Minister. Recently^ looked into. There is the question of there has been a lot of talking iri 1he interim relief which is not being papers as well. The Americans are implemented by the employers. going to corrupt all the sincere and honest trade unionists in our country Now, recently, in the Borbil area, by opening colleges and spending thousands of women workers had to lakhs of rupees. They have spent demonstrate before the management. nearly 1 crore dollars in the name o^ They offered satyagrah before the educating the trade unionists. They truck-load of iron ore. Of course, the are giving Rs. 5000 salary to a trade Minister did try to implement the unionist. In the A.R.O. of I.C.F.T.U. decision in the Borbil area. But the the General Secretary gets more than employers turned down the proposal Rs. 5000 apart from housing and other of the Labour Minister and now the facilities. In this way, the sincere poor women workers are forcing the and honest trade unions are being employer to implement the decision of corrupted by the Americans. They the wage board on the question of should not be allowed to function in interim relief. this country. Are We going to allow the Soviet Union or any other socialist Mr. Chairman: The hon. Momber country to open such colleges here? should conclude now. If any Member is invited to a 9053 *>. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Labour 9054 and Employment socialist country, immediately, they ^ I E2TFT 773% gtT f*T start saying that they are going to have their brain-washing and all that. w&mt fvrti ?fk ^ | ^ft ii. Here, the Americans are even cor­ f^r % ?n^r <^^»ii M^di 11% fir ft rupting the A.I.C.C. Recently, in the A.I.C.C. bulletin, an editorial is writ­ ■Hfl'i4! ^ t ^ I q ^ l 'jft’, f^FRiT ^TPRTXt ten supporting the American views on f^r ^t ^nrfw % ^wt the question of Vietnam. Similarly, in f ^kTT ^tpt this way, our trade unions are being corrupted. Our trade unions are «J§d 3TT rR f If f I trying to do a little good for the working class. They are also going to be corrrpted by the Americans. So, prrr ^ ^ p ^nrrf^ these sort of American activities must ^t^ft ^ 1% «4grf 'HI0 d K K t ^ T be stopped in our country. 37ft % f 'jft # F f^ ft ?t fTOf (*fftT) : f «nr rrq-T f , ^ f e f f , s«rdtii«l d1< % *rrr s ttt ^ f5 R ^ t nT^T 3|cT | I 3 fa fts It srerfr I *t»l ^ + 1 <1 ^T ^«rl's|l*i f w f t r t *fk §fhf^rt sjfrrot ^r^t ^^rrf % ^rnr1 % *T3T^Ct ^t ^ft STR% SfT

^Trft ff, ^sRff f sttuk T§wr ^?t ^ eft % ^ +1^ ^ft ^ ft^TT t ^sft ^ t ^ t ^ f[PT % ^PT f^Ft "351 Trf f I ^rr% w4\ ^ft rfr^T TOT f e f t tld <6 TOT % w ^ < +K ^ w r»r- 4 9ft?TFT^t^^dl ^ fe fT | I IT ^ flHM ^nr f^T T ^t^TT^T^^r WT ^RHiW | I ^F^t faTqrfcpTTfmt f % ^ « f t ^ ?nr^ftR mV t ^ 1% s^+T Tpr5rrft?fM »t^ t sft 5p ^ 3ft ^t f^^ff ^ ^ T^tir.^r^ ftjfHreT. t f a w *r sffti sn ferr ^ w t % ^ R - ?ftT 5nf%f? rHFTh: TT)W ^ eft ^FfTt% *TT TTiu¥ ^ft^T ^ cfT^TT M ^ t tJHT %TT WMTK sft | % m*f I w f t f ^ t %m*f ^1T | I % ^ff | I % TT5r^a ^fft f ^ ^ f r % ^ ^ f t m «r i w * r | i w f t cT^fh: Jf f ^rft ^ tt ^ «rr f% ^ ^PRTsr^K 3f ^ frorct ^nr % f p t vz? ^ % f-T^r ’tN - ^ft'sr f i ;3tt% % f ?ftr W ^ to t 1 1 f^F^ft % § sffa: ^T% 3?R ^ 3fcT ^11^ ^ ^T^HRT f% ^^Ri" ^t ^T ?tt wtr ^ tt ff i «rr f% +M£0 eft ^ ^t r^^ft % ^ % f^fTT h+m t o *rnr, Trsr^rt ^ftw^r f^wtftsV M ^ ft %*m ?Ft W& % T.fct 3^% M ^ t w ^rr l*ifdt^t % ^r^Ft «iWl °Fr m r^ r ^xrsrnT f^ rr i srm fror tot I, %f^r f?R «Ft qfrt ’JTTWT% t ^TT KTFT E> G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1S65 of Labour and Employment 9056

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r^fdM Itott *p \ •f+'flfH' f^rr ^ifrff. 1 1 ? r^ r ^ F t 4^+' f^^Fcrnr % ?nr»T ^Ft, l^ ^ r n T ^Ft ^Trft I VnPd ^fft WTT T^T ^PTT I ^TI^T fPT ^rfsr%9nr % t o f^T | ift f^ 1963 % q^T I ^T TK ^ eft TT3T%WT D. G.—Min.CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) of Labour 9058 and Employment ^r r «rr, f w f ^ tt *rr, t a w r r m «ft Ifo Sfo snrf : «FT ft TT*T ^ T T «TT 3 Tff ?TT3f^T f¥^RTf ^f5F3r ®Ft 'jft ^TrT ^TW Rt 3f I T ft t 'tiqw ^TTSRTcT TSTR ^T W w * ^FT ^ft ^RT^T i l l d t WTcTT I I 5TT3T f t ^ | I 3 ^ET% ^ I %fer foUHM w ^ rR ft^ft^rr qft|f^f^7^r ?ft *R" <+>HH f^RTT ■Jfldl ^ eft ^t «f§d §f^l«l ^ T T f T ^ I d4tnij^^l ^T HTTt fr^T &TFT # WT t ^^9 1(^1 j I i k ^TRT f t T fT ^ w rt 1 frrfwT wfcnr ^rt tr t f®F m l ^ t ^T ^TTvf ^ ^ W^xT ^ T *K«f>K f+tf TtfafdWH % ^ f ^K T W&5\ f^l^K ^X ^ | | XWt. % ?ft% JT^T STFTT I sprf ^ f t f T^T% f^T ^ i f^ TT5T|Tf ^ t VWft fs&Fft ^Mnlfci'ti ’nfcn f 3rsftfV sjq^r % f^ ^€^1^ ft y-N * f ff c R f sftUTRT ^ T T ^ 7 ^ % *T3T^Tt ^ ^ f cT^T ?TfT f>TT ^FTcft ^ I ^ ^T% ^iff^ r«F ^Ft I1W ^ f %*rro f 1 * g fa ^ r t t ^r w 1 M m m * h $ 0 ’ ^rr w n m & i f t , r^^n ^fwcf ^ x ^T TFFTT ft <«if«M ^f ^RT ^TT ^Tff^- I %f%?T % ^T ^ r ^ T O ^ T R f M l ^i^rtK ft*TT f t *TFt % y^TT ^ t f

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[jpe 0061 D. G.—Min. CHAITBA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Labour 9062 and Employment

sftr 3 f tft rnr ^ ffp ^ n r % q^t ^rft | I tit ^T5TT ^T ^nTOr % str ^t w r f r 2 ^ t Rf^l*T | ^T% ^ ^T tit f TT^r ^ T T %%^r f^r ^TTf mf ^ | rpc ^ fiiPT t *ir«tfR % srcr f*r snrfa f w w ft^rr | , % t o ^r^ft v rr^rr ^ 1% ^TT «&«i ^TPT1 ¥ tf InPt^^r *& zz rfw r *r *RTf gtT wti ^ rr^ rw f fqOT ^R f^ ^T? I fT l^r TOT% f^" tift ^ r t % srcrfar * r forr i ^nr ^ ^R" ^nr fvn^n *f»H mt ^ f T ’Sf^Txft % «Hd ^TPT^t ^TF3RT ^ ^T3f*T TT <31^ % 'st^P^ld % 3T*T% T*SRT ^T^fT fj far % ^|qr ^ ^r+r w\ < W T ^T^T 5TRT f f , ^ t «rrt: *t i f ^ r r f f c *rfar 'drleht ^ ^ r f ^ d fIV> ^5f^T Bill'S ^TT ^R q^TT f^F ^T^R ^ d’^sql^ 100 X ? TT *fR^ | eft ^TfT ^T\{ f^ R T tit ^ift ft, ^t 3Rt «TTcf *ft f*n t ^rnr% n\i ^tt=f ^rr ^^T^rrtr3 0 ^o ^r f t f t ^n^rr1 | 3f I fc fipf^TR *t I ^1 sr^sr t ff O T ^TT— MKfdR^JJH f^T ^Pt wft w tf ^R *T ^TRT I ^t ^ ft izsft I ?Tf t^F ^fft ^ p r ^ vr^ft ^ rr ^ftr ^ ft ^T ^ ^jfTf WX |T ^ r r % t o t r "*T3fT ^rnr eft ^ th t ^ 1^1 f^F ^*1 ^fi^ft ^ r ff^Tpr t tr^r *m ^ tfjt tzt % ^sr tn?r ^t 'i^m fe r r f t t o t t % 1^7 w %m to ft ^rwr ? rtr ^3»t ^rNt % ^ft^r ^ R srp ft I f^ra% t o r tift *t>K«i^i< %“ ??T •fR WT ^R I ^r t ^sft ♦r | ^rr t 1 t 9063 D- G-—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9064

[« fr \ z r f ^ ] 5s% trerirg, '3TT% I ^T TZtf&t % Tnf^: TT STTft? t ^ ^ f t I f t 5 ft €3TFT ^ I ^FTT «Ft ^ ^ *Ft ^TPT % STEFS' ^TT ^TT ^ r r ^rf^r f t ^ ^ yi<€fMli' % f^TT ferr ^TTTT, *K'«F! < w ft ^npct r gf^nt fer to 1 ■hK^Mf If tft TTvrTf^f ^ft JU JU f^TT ^rr ^Tf^r, ?fh: ^ t ^fr Vft ^^TTt ^Tf ^3T iRTtTT ^ gf^9 Ttr‘ ^ft ^Tf^r cfrft t fffcl*rc if W % ft HPT f, tnPTvflT^r 5|^r f^PETT $T fl'f* I ^ ?% ^ T | I ^ET fr r tt If ^T«hK ^ ^ *TRT^ft cft^Rt ^ffq" zft^RT % 3IT^ ^t $*iR *i>ai^ 0 % dIld- ^ft % qm 14 M ott tsnr vkh! A ^T ^ I ^TWT^TR ^t ^ftt Tf ^5rm | 5:^ ^RT f ^ ^ifvivr T^ft I ft 3^t f t f ^ W H If f t ^ - 17 % i ^ r r . sf ; tttt m w t | ft *k+k Ifftcllld ^TT^ ?TR^ 7% •Ft ^Ft Q*f) tigPi^a ^ ft ^rf^r ^ t^Kt fR 9ft I | t^Tft f t fafftt *T f^TF H^iqK a?Ic'cr> ^T t^p +]<^i ^ M«hi 1 % ^ jj^ t ^ft ^fftxY 5T^t fwcft I ^TT + i w w l ®Ft stpt % ^|cr *fr gfarn* fl<+K ^T qFtf | m ft^TT f t 1 , w : vrwTff Ir ^r, fta ?tt W v ft ^ ft | f t ^ #^rwd fto tTo qr^r *rt ^fpt + vJ} ^ *jfast % far* «ft ?n% ?Ft tr^FT ^V W it ’hMHi ?T^t ff^rr ^ 1 q fe ^ trg^T ^ f 1 # H'ttd «t>

i f t i 1 ^Hi«i j-0 ^t ^rwr^'^rO % WTx[ % «ft fa^lR'^1 % ?At ^g^TZT^f fe rp ft 3|T ^ I ^TFT »fftft ?T^t f^FTrft I ^ ^ I 1 g f t ?Ftf^ °Ft ^ r tffrt ^tt 1 im ^ im M t $ z «tt ^t 2Ftf ty x z t ft ^i^r i& gfrc ^ft ^t ff^ r ft ^ ^ I g^viH ^t% ^rrf w m f t ^ j? r m ^r n r m vrfWt ^ fff. 9065 O. G.—Min. CHA1TRA 22, 1887 (SAfCA) of Labour 9066 and Employment

% f^nT f^rerr i # ^ t^ tt qr ^ 52TFT f^r 1 if fa ^rf^nr ^ spt w f t i^r rRrfhc ^r «rr fa f ^ ^rr^TR- fa ^ vrf^r Ir fsifef ^if^fHfd f71 faTOT t ^r fsRr^T^’ % «IK 'SIMI ^ I v t w k fa t imvzf ?n^NKl f I ^ ^RiTRT ^IVIiqi<{) JT^t JT^t^T ^ f ^ H % PTT^ft 3FT %?t | fa r^gwH % JT^rf ^ l< 4 l *RT eft *TP? ^ h n r frV ^RT |ir ^ mWHIt TT ^TPT ferr *RT I % ^TR % ^ ^Ft ^ T ?Tk # % f^Tcft % *iw ^ iR^r inrq? Ur$tt ir^o ^ f ^RTT WT* Z I # 0 *fto ^Ft f ’f^RT f f *ft, 3TT t

«r> vrf^riff 3r jtt ^F?ff 3r q ^ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Hon Members ^rrrt disu 4 ^Rr^ft t4Vj»h ^ may now move the cut motions to «TT% %TTT ^ f^TT | gq <>fcft Demands for Grants relating to the Ministry of Labour and Employment, *nft *fr f , ^T fr I , % fa ^ *t w k % subject to their being otherwise TOrrf ^r ?^r *rfeiff % fo r Sr | 1 admissible. «nfr ^V *rc^rr qr eftrf % Shri Kishen Pattnayak (Sambalpur): *it% tfk *r ^ ft T^ft f 1 I beg to move:

16.37 hrs. (i) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and [Mr. Deputy -Speaker in the Chair] Employment’ be reduced by Rs. 100.”. %fa^T # l^r ^TeT ^ ?ftT *K + K ^T & m [Failure to refer the dispute bet­ f^TPTT ^T^TT ff fa W ( ^ R % ft ween the Lino-operators of the Gov­ % ^ T *Kcft fa% ^ ^ T ft ernment of India Presses and the management to adjudication^)]. ^ TR^TTt ^T% m : |%3T f^qrr *ptt | 1 # 3Tf ^gt ^rr fa ^ (ii) “That the demand under %M <^1 TT TOR^TT ^r cf^T 37 the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Employment* be reduced by artfaT t i ^ jrw f l Rs. 100.”. ^fhpr qT% % [Irregularities involved in imple­ f»T^n% ^ fV m ^ i ^iqr^i menting the award for providing ^ f s fk ?r # fatft sfTtxr ^ sh

(viii) “That the demand under [Need to strictly enforce labour laws the head ^Ministry of Labour and and bring defaulting managements to Employment’ be reduced by book (46)]. Bs. 100”. (xv) “That the demand under the [Need to form industrial relations head ‘Ministry of Labour and Committees in all industries including Employment’ be reduced by Newspapers establishments (40)]. Rs. 100.” . 9069 D* G;—Min. CHAITRA 22, 58 7 ( SAKA) of Labour 907O and Employment [Need to enforce safety measures delays in deciding industrial disput- stringently (47)]. ■tes (54)]. (xvi) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and (xxiii) “That the demand under Employment’ be reduced by the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Rs. 100.” . Employment’ be reduced by Rs. 100.” . INeed to enforce laws pertaining to conditions of work in factories, [Need to constitute works committees mines and plantations (48)]. wherever they do not exist at pre­ sent (56)] (xvii) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and (xxiv) “That the demand under Employment’ be reduced by the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Rs. 100.” . Employment’ be reduced by [Need to enforce laws regarding Rs. 100” . housing of industrial workers (49)]. [Need to take steps against closed (xviii) “That the demand under shop methods adopted and prac­ the head ‘Ministry of Labour and tised in certain categories of Employment’ be reduced by stevedore labour (56) ] Rs. 100.”. (xxv) “That the demand under [Need t0 investigate the existing the head ^Ministry of Labour and method of calculating cost of living Employment’ be reduced by index for workers and revise Rs. 100.” . it according to more up-to-date scientific methods (50) ]. [Need to plug loopholes in legislation (xix) “That the demand under taken advantage of by employers the head ‘Ministry of Labour and to defeat workers from provident Employment’ be reduced by fund, gratuity, maternity and Rs. 100.” . other benefits (57) ] [Need to enforce the minimum (xxvi) “That the demand under wages wherever already fixed(51)]. the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Employment’ be reduced by (xx) “That the demand under Rs. 100.” . the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Employment’ be reduced by [Need to give more powers to Labour Rs. 100.” . Officers to summon representa­ tives of labour and managements [Need to give representation to for conciliation proceedings (58)] organisations of labour in the propos­ ed National Safety Council. (52)]. Shri IndrajH Gupta (Calcutta South West): I beg to move: (xxi) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and (i) “That the demand under Employment’ be reduced by the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Rs. 100.” . Employment’ be reduced by [Need to end contract labour sys­ Rs. 100.” . tem (53)]. rimmediate need to reconstitute the Calcutta Dock Labour Boards (xxii) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and (65)] Employment’ be reduced by (ii) “That the demand under Rs. 100.” . the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Employment’ be reduced by [Need to strengthen adjudication .-and arbitration machineries to avoid Rs, 100.”. 9071 D. G.—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 9072

[Irregularities and mal-administration in the Calcutta Dock Labour Employment’ be reduced by Board ( 66)] Rs. 100.” . [Failure to revise upwards wage rates (iii) “That the demand under fixed under the Minimum Wages the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Act for workers in the Central Employment' be reduced by sphere (73)] Rs. 100” . (x) “That the demand under [Need to institute an immediate the head ‘Ministry of Labour and inquiry into financial irregulari­ Employment’ be reduced by ties of Calcutta Dock Labour Rs. 100.”. Board, as revealed in the Audit Report (67)] | Non-implementation of interim relief recommendation of Wage Board by (iv) “That the demand under the Mine owners of Orissa (74)] the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Employment’ be reduced by (xi) “That the demand under Rs. 100.” . the head *Ministry of Labour and Employment’ be reduced by [Failure to grant permanent status to Rs. 100.” . *B’ and ‘C’ categories of shore labour under Calcutta Port Com­ [Need to grant interim relief to 20,000 missioners (68)] iron and manganese miners of Barbil, Orissa who are on strike (v) “That the demand under (75)] the head *Ministry of Labour and Employment* be reduced by (xii) “That the demand under Rs. 100.” . the head ‘Ministry of Labour and [Nfeed to give bonus to Dock workers Employment’ be reduced by (69)] Rs. 100” . (vi) “That the demand under [Non-implementation of Wage Board’s the head ‘Ministry of Labour and recommendation for interim relief Employment’ be reduced by •by iron ore mineowners of Goa Rs. 100” . (76)] (xiii) “That the demand under [Acute shortage of housing for Dock the head ‘Ministry of Labour and labour in Calcutta (70)] Employment’ be reduced by (vii) “That the demand under Rs. 100.” . the head ‘Ministry of Labour and [Continued non-implementation ol Employment’be reduced by Wage Board’s recommendation Rs. 100” . for minimum fall-back wages by [Need to reconstitute and regularise Jute mill owners (77)] functioning of the Dock Labour (xiv) “That the demand under Advisory Committee (71)] the head ‘Ministry of Labour and (viii) “That the demand under Employment’ be reduced by the head ‘Ministry of Labour and Rs. 100” . Employment’ be reduced % [Demotion from permanent to casual is . 100” . status of 800 winchmen and 1500 [Need to constitute a Wage Board for gang workers of Marmagoa port Kailwaymeri (72)] (78)] (ix) “That the demand under (xv) “That the demand under the head ‘Ministry of Labour and the head ‘Ministry of Labour and *9073 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) of Labour 9074 and Employment Employment’ be reduced by rity wing in the ministry. But it is Rs. 100.” . unfortunate that instead of creating a separate wing in this ministry, a [Need to expedite setting up of Dock separate department of social security Labour Board for Goa (79)] has been created, and though mostly connected with the Labour Ministry (xvi) “That the demand under it has been transferred to some other the head ‘Ministry of Labour and ministry. Employment’ be reduced by Rs. 100.” . So far as this Ministry is concern­ ed I have nothing much to complain. }[Nee

[Shri A. P. Sharma] Railways and Defence establishments way Ministry and the railway labour in the report of the Ministry. This union, namely, the National Federa­ House knows that about 12 lakh tion of Indian Railwaymen. We ins­ workers are employed in the Rail­ isted that this question should be ways and near about 4 lakh workers referred to arbitration. The Railway in tihe Defence establishments. For Ministry have taken the plea that such big establishments of the Gov­ they being a Government depart­ ernment like the Railways and De­ ment, they have the sole right to fence, we find only a line in the re­ refuse or to refer the matter to port of the Ministry. As a humble arbitration. So far as we, represent­ worker in the labour field and a ing the labour, are concerned, we supporter of this Government, I have taken up the attitude that if at would like to warn the Government all anybody has the right to decide that if this situation continues, as whether a matter should be referred it is at present, in the Railways and to arbitration or not, it is the Labour in the Defence establishments, serious Ministry and not the Railway Minis­ labour trouble will follow in this try. In this respect, the Labour country. Why I am saying this is, Ministry is behaving like a silent because the attitude of this Ministry spectator, I do not know why. Is it is one of indifference and of a casual because the Labour Ministry is afraid nature so far as labour problems are of the employing Ministry, where concerned. it is Railways or Defence? Is it a fact that these Ministries are more powerful than the Labour Ministry? As I said, I will confine my obser­ If that is the position, I would like vations to the grievance settlement to assure the hon. Labour Minister machinery on the Indian Railways. on the floor of this House that the There is a permanent negotiating entire working class will be behind machinery in the Railway, function­ the Labour Ministries if they take ing on three-tiers, namely, at the any action against the employing divisional, general 'manager and the Ministry, particularly, the Defence Railway Board level. This machinery and Railway Ministries. I think I is set up as a result of an agreement can assure him on this point on be­ between the labour and the Railway half of both Shri Priya Gupta and Administration. According to the Shri Alvares also. provision of this machinery, when a problem or an issue is not settled by In my opinion, if arbitration is re­ mutual negotiations it is required to fused to the workers, even for an be referred to a tribunal set up for organisation like the one for which this purpose. Recently we had a I am speaking, there is no alterna­ very strange experience in the Rail­ tive for the workers than to take re­ way Ministry about the functioning course to strikes. Because, in our of this machinery. There are about Constitution we have mentioned it 4 lakh workers, employed by the very clearly that we do not want to Indian Railways, known as causal invite a strike and we do not want labour, and this House will be sur­ to go on strike, so long arbitration is prised to know that during these days available. But what is the way out if of rising of prices these" workers are an employer does not refer the de­ paid at the rates of Rs. 1-4-0, 1-8-0, mand of the workers to arbitration 1-12-0 and, in some places, Rs. 2. At for a peaceful settlement? There­ the same time, for the permanent fore, I would like to suggest at this employees doing the same work the stage to the Labour Ministry and to rate is Rs. 3-8-0. On the question of the hon. Labour Minister that the ■ the fixation of the wages of the time has come when the Labour casual labour, we had difference of Ministry should set up a Committee opinion; that is, between the Rail­ or appoint a special officer on behalf 9077 D- G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) of Labour 9078 and Employment

of the Labour Ministry to enquire because of the workers’ demand or into the working of the labour laws whether it is because the unreason­ and the violation of the labour laws able employers have refused to settle in these employing Ministries. Unless the demand by negotiation and also these Ministries are tackled in the refused to refer them to arbitration? same way as private employers for If that is the reason, it is the em­ the violation of the laws, they ar« ployers who should be blamed for mot going to listen to the Labour man-days lost and not the workers Ministry. That is my experience for of this country.” the last twenty years. I have spoken about he violation of What happens in the case of a pri­ the labour law:?. Now I would like to vate employer if he violates the deal with workers’ participation in labour laws in his industry? He is management. I may tell the House either fined or sentenced for some that the scheme for workers’ partici­ period or both. I wonder whether pation in management was promised there is any understanding between to the working class of this country as two sister Ministries because if a far back as 15 years ago. This House Government officer is in charge of will perhaps be surprised to know implementing the labour laws, it is that a team was also sent by the Gov­ generally found that he easily ernment of India, known as the escapes in spite of the violation of Vishnu Sahay Cmomittee, to study the the labour laws because they are not workers’ participation in management pursued by the Labour Ministry. scheme to various countries. I do not know about other departments, but In the Report of the Ministry there I know about the Railways. An offi­ is reference to man-days lost. The cer on special duty was also appointed Ministry itself has accepted that in and certain schemes were worked out the year 1964 the man-days lost is I want to know as to what has hap­ more than in the years 1962 and 1963. pened about the workers* participation In the year 1964 the man-days lost in management scheme. was 73 lakhs as against 33 lakhs in 1963 and 61 lakhs in 1962. The rise Here in the Report there is a men­ in man-days lost is attributed to the tion of certain public rector under­ economic cause, leading to demand takings where the workers’ participa­ for higher wages and dearness al­ tion in management scheme is work­ lowance by the workers. In this ing successfully. Their number, ac­ connection, I would again like to ask cording to the Report, is 36. What are the hon. Labour Minister, if the em­ those establishments, how many wor­ ploying Ministry or the employer, kers are employed in those establish­ particularly Government department, ments and what is the size of those because they are Government establishments? They have left out departments and, therefore, they are the biggest establishments in the very powerful—they are more power­ public sector, like the Railways, Posts ful—they are more powerful than and Telegraphs, Defence, but they are private employer—if they refuse to talking of small factories employing settle a demand of the workers by 200 or 500 people and saving that in mutual agreement, if any demand is 36 factories or establishment in the not settled by mutual negotiation public sector the workers’ participa­ between labour and management, and tion in management scheme is work­ if the management refuse to refer ing successfully. such disputes to arbitration, what is the course left for labour? So far as we ane concerned, we have forgotten the workers partici­ Here again, I would request the La­ pation in management scheme because bour Minister to look into the causes we feel that under this regime wor­ of man-days lost and see whether it i? kers’ participation in management 9079 D- G. Min. APRIL 12, 19>65 of Labour and Employment 9080 {Shri A. P. Sharma] scheme will not be introduced so far trade unionists, the Government is as these bigger industries are concern­ also affected by this slogan. What ed; but still, according to thi 3 Re­ is the idea of one union in one indus­ port, if the Ministry is very keen and try or what is the idea of trade anxious, I want to assure the Minis­ union unity in this country? So try on behalf of the labour that what­ fas as the trade unions conti­ ever steps the Ministry takes in this nue to draw their allegiance from the direction, we are always prepared to various political parties—I am talking co-operate in making the scheme suc­ particularly of a trade union which has cessful. no root in this country so far as the I want to say something about the ideology is concerned and which al­ slogan of one union in one industry. ready receives guidance from foreign My hon. friend, Shri Elias—he is not countries—with such unions, under no here—talked about some discrimina­ circumstances, there can be a trade tory treatment between the INTUC union unity. I want to say that the and the AITUC. My charge is the slogan of one union in one industry other way. I want to accuse this is not a correct slogan. The slogan Government of giving representation should be that only a quality-based to the AJTUC on so many Government union which has got he national cha­ committees in this country which they racter and which is always prepared are not entitled to because, according to sacrifice the interests of the wor­ to the statement of my hon. friend, kers for the larger interest of the Shri Elias, himself, it is the most re­ country should only be recognised and presentative union, the largest and no other union. the biggest organisation in the coun­ try, which is entitled to representation and n0t anybody and everybody. Even according to ILO rules, only the na­ I want to say a word more in this tional trade union, representing the connection as to how the industrial largest number of workers, is entitled peace should be maintained in the to be represented on these com­ country. So far as the industrial mittees. peace is concerned, the prerequisite for maintaining industrial peace is a May I take this opportunity to contented worker. The workers can­ request the Labour Minister and the not be contented unless and until Government of India’s Labour Minis­ certain conditions are fulfilled. What try not to consider the representation are those conditions? The conditions of bodies like the AITUC, particularly are that the worker must be assured a in the present context of the country living wage, the good working condi­ when one section of the AITUC’s Com­ tions, the proper housing facilities and munist Party is behaving against the the most important thing is the interests of the country and so many wholesome industrial relations. After of them have been imprisoned on all, after getting the housing facilities charges of preparation for sabotage and all, if the people treat them in any activities in the country. In this way they like, if the old slogan of connection, the most impartial way hire-and-fire continues on the that the Government could follow is part of the employers, what is the to give representation to the national good of having good working condi­ organisation which had the largest tions and all those things? Therefore membership. And that can he done wholesome industrial relations, the through the verification of the mem­ effective machinery for quick settle­ bership. ment of disputes and the recognition I would like to say something about of quality-based unions are the the slogan of one union in one indus­ only things that can bring content to try. It appears that, apart from the the labour in this country. 9081 D. G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 18 87 ( SAKA) of Labour 9082 and Employment With these words, I want to thank income through employment and, at you and I also want to assure the the same time contribute to an in­ Ministry that so far as we are con­ crease in production through work and cerned, we are always prepared to increased productivity. subordinate our sectional interests whenever the question of tire larger Sir, it is true that our plans have interest of the country comes before provided increased opportunities of us. But so far as the labour legis­ employment, but it is difficult to lation in the public sector is concern­ claim that our plans have succeeded ed, we are totally dissatisfied and I even in accounting for the additional want the Labour Minister and this influx into the labour market Government to do something in the which is an inevitable consequence of near future so that any untoward in­ the natural growth of our population. cident may not take place in this country. At a time when we are formulating the Fourth Five Year Plan, it is, Shrimati Renuka Barkataki (Bar- therefore necessary to review the peta): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I serious and undeniable inadequacy of rise to support the demands for grants our employment position and formu­ of the Ministry of Labour and Emp­ late a policy aimed at liquidating un­ loyment. At the very outset, I must employment and under-employment, congratulate the hon. Minister on the and grappling with the problem of able w ay in which he has been deal­ seasonal unemployment, in the short­ ing with this veflry difficult task. I est possible time. say this is a very difficult task beca­ use of the success of the Ministry Such a policy to be realistic hqc depends to a considerable extent on to take into consideration the 'size the success of the plans for industri­ of our population, the gate of growth alisation and the pattern of owner­ of our population, the geographical ship, efficiency and achievements in distribution, the rural-urban industry and agriculture, all of which ratio of our population, the need or most of which, are factors over for modernising our technique which the Ministry has no direct con­ of production and increasing producti­ trol. vity in agriculture as well as in indus­ try. Sir, one of the major tasks of the Ministry is to formulate and carry out Fitful employment of unskilled a policy that will ensure full and labour in temporary work which does gainful employment to the many not need skills or considerable invest­ millions in our country. ment in finance or machinery may have its immediate utility. But a 17 hrs. long-term policy has to take into con­ sideration the inevitable consequences This has been one of the major ob­ of our efforts at modernising our jectives of our five year plans. Yet, techniques of production. More it must be confessed that our efforts employment opportunities have to be have hardly succeeded in reducing the created in industry. But industry can­ massive dimension of unemployment not be economically efficient or com­ and under-employment in this country. petitive, if it does not accept the logic Statistics that the Ministry have pre­ of industrialisation and use the most sented have only reinforced the im­ modern machinery including those that pression that the backlog of unemp­ take us nearer to the age of automa­ loyment is a burden that our society tion. Once we embark on this process will have to carry for a long time. We and decide to speed towards the realise that there can be no improve­ modem age, there is no escape from ment in the standard of living of our moving away from labour intensive masses unless they earn an adequate methods of production. Increased 219(Ai) LSD— 8. 9083 G-—Min. APRIL 12, 1965 0/ Labour and Employment 9084

[Shrimati Renuka Barkataki] industrialisation, no doubt, will lead education and education to make to increased employment, in sDite of creative use of the leisure that reduced labour-saving machinery. But if hours of work will provide. labour is to 'benefit from industrialisa­ tion, the element of wage must Sir, I have already referred to the increase while the element of labour need to increase productivity in the decreases. If labour is to obtain and agricultural and industrial fields. I retain employment in a rapidly indus­ welcome the attention that is being trialising society, two things are neces­ given to this question. I have no sary: the kind of skills necessary in doubt in my mind that it is only highly mechanised methods of produc­ through education, better management tion, and the training necessary to and the introduction of the incentives ensure adaptability and mobility to provided by norms, as well as partici­ facilitate migration to and absorption pation in management that we can in new industries. increase the low productivity of our workers. 1 must, however, say that These essential conditions of employ­ the pace of our progress in this direc­ ment in a rapidly industrialising tion has been slow. I do hope that society cannot be ensured without a the principle of workers’ participation gigantic, well-planned and coordinated in management, which has now been programme of workers’ education. accepted, will be applied more effec­ Our industrial and employment policy tively and on a much wider scale. must be aimed at creating opportuni­ Before I pass on to other questions, ties for increased employment, creat­ I must say a few words about the ing the skill necessary for availine of problem of educated unemployment. these opportunities, and synchronising The Report itself says that the number the availability of opportunities and of educated applicants seeking employ­ the ability to avail of them. It can­ ment has increased. Of the eight not be said that we have succeeded in lakhs who have registered in the formulating or implementing such a employment exchanges, only 185,000 policy. I hope that the policies and could be placed in employment. The programmes that we adopt in the plight of those who are below the Fourth Plan will remove these defi­ matriculation level, even when they ciencies of the past. have received some vocational train­ ing, is worse. The mid-term apprai­ I am not suggesting that the Minis­ sal of the Plan has itself pointed out try is unaware of the importance of that the situation “is particularly dis­ workers education. The reoort of the quieting in respect of educated clas­ Ministry deals with the training insti­ ses” . The disquiet is bound to be even tutes, schemes and programmes that greater when one sees from the.apprai­ have been functioning. But it will sal itself that, “side by side with the readily be admitted that the number situation, manpower shortages are be­ of institutes has been inadequate. ing experienced for professional and The kind of training imparted has technical personnel such as engineers, been inadequate and the curriculam draftsmen, doctors etc., and certain of the course, capable of enormous categories of craftsmen including fit­ improvement from the point of view ters, turners, tool-makers, electricians of the integrated prospectives and the and the like.” On the one hand, specific skills required in the current employment cannot be found for phase of industrial expansion. those who have been trained; on the A programme of workers’ education other hand, trained personnel cannot has to provide training in. professional be found for employment. This, no skills, retraining for keeping pace with doubt, exposes a very serious defi­ improvements in techniques of pro­ ciency in our planning for manpower duction, supplementary scholastic utilisation. 9085 £>■ G.—Min. CHAITRA 22, 1887 ( SAKA) 0/ Labour 9086 and Employment I would now like to say a few Dato Sambandan, Indian plantation words about the problems of our workers formed co-operatives which organised industrial labour. The bought, and own and operate today, Report has pointed out that there has an impressive number of rubber plan­ been considerable increase in the loss tations in Malaysia. I wonder why of man hours resulting from strikes. our Ministry cannot encourage the use This is a matter which should cause of contributions from the provident us grave concern. The report has fund and extend financial assistance rightly pointed out that the causes of for such ventures in India. most of the strikes that took place during the year were economic, that Sir, in conclusion I must refer to the strikes resulted from sudden and one or two special problems of my spiralling increase in the cost of living State. Sir, my State is industrially and the reduction of the Teal wages of very backward, the number of indus­ the workers. The decision to fix trial establishments is very few. minimum wages, to link the dearness There are a few public sector under­ allowance with the consumer price takings including the refinery. Yet, it index, to pay part of the wages in kind must be pointed out that even in thes^ and to open fair price shops and undertakings the number of Assamese increase amenities and services like who can find employment is pitifully housing, medical care etc., must, there­ small. We are told that we do not fore, be welcomed as a step in the have people with requisite training right direction to rehabilitate the real and skills; yet nothing is done to pro­ wage. But, many months have passed vide this training in Assam for the since the decision was taken, and the Assamese. Leaving aside the question progress in introducing the supporting of skilled and trained personnel, even legislation and expanding amenities in appointing persons in III and IV has been rather slow. grade classes, there are thousands of instances where private industrial Sir, I welcome the appointment of establishments and non-Assamese the commission to enquire into the heads of departments of public under­ working and living conditions of takings give preference to the people plantation workers. It is no exaggera­ from outside Assam. We seem to be tion to say that the conditions of the victims of a vicious circle. The employment, housing, medical facili­ committee of the Assam Assembly ties, provision against accidents occu­ which toured the public sector under­ pational hazards and sickness ate far takings and private industrial estab­ from satisfactory in the plantations. lishments in Assam has submitted a I would like our Ministry to pay spe­ report which should open many eyes. cial attention to the requirements of plantation labour. I would also like Even if you look at the number of the Ministry to explore the possibility persons registered in the employment, of" extending the principle of co­ exchanges and the number of place­ operative ownership to plantations. ments effected, you will find that in When plantations are changing hands Assam only one out of every twelve and Indian big business men are buy­ registered has been found employment ing them from the foreign owners, as against the all India average of one ’whv....should not our Government. out of every seven. which believes in socialism,-encourase I would like to refer to the problems aid the plantation workers to and of emigrant and agricultural labour. form co-operatives and huy these But for lack of time, I shall conclude plantations from foreign owners? Sir, by saying that, even the survey con­ this is not an untried idea. I have ducted by the Government has shown only to point out to the extremely that the average annual income of successful experiment that h a s taken agricultural labour has gone down. I place in Malaysia, where, under the hope, Sir, that the Government will dynamic leadership of the Minister 9o 87 Cr-— APRIL 12. 1965 of Labour and Employment 90 fc

[Shrimati Renuka Barkataki] give attention to the problems of this since labour has got confidence in the vast sector of unorganised labour in Government, and they are alive to the country. the various ameliorative measures undertaken by the Ministry regarding With these words, I support the medical, housing, educational and demands of the Ministry. other facilities. Wage Boards are constituted in organised industries and Shri M. M&laichami (Periyakulam): they have also helped the workers to Sir, I thank you for giving me an get adequate wages in conformity opportunity to speak in support of the with the cost of living index. demands of the Ministry of Labour and Employment. Government labour I take this opportunity to suggest policy and its impact on the working to the Ministry that there is impera­ class could be reviewed only in the tive necessity to set up a Wage Board context of the general economic and for cardamom plantation workers. social conditions in the country. The More than two lakh workers are Ministry deserves to be congratulated engaged in cardamom plantation. Similar to coffee plantation, cardamom for the various ameliorative measures taken to improve the social and is also planted in the higher elevations economic conditions of labour. Labour of the western ghats. Estates with more than 50 acres employ workers is a great force for democracy and permanently and continuously it is a productive force. Without throughout the year. An enquiry into enabling labour to play its full the industry will clearly reveal that constructive role, it may not be pos­ sible to improve the standard of liv­ there is sweated labour and that the ing of the people and ensure social wages paid are very low. Further, the and economic justice enshrined in our workers are paid low, and the food- Constitution. grains supplied to them are charged at exorbitant rates. The constitution of An important aspect of the work of a Wage Board will go a long way to the Labour Ministry relates to wel­ ameliorate the workers. So, I request fare, safety and working conditions the Ministry to take suitable of labour, both organised and un­ measures for constituting a Wage organised. These have an important Board in respect of the plantation bearing on the improvement in workers of cardamom. They suffer not production and productivity. During only from low wages but also due to the Chinese aggression, labour proved want of proper medical, housing and its faith in the democratic structure educational facilities. Steps should be of this country and the oneness with taken to provide for the grant of which it met the challenge was a subsidy to an extent of 25 per cent of remarkable achievement—so far as the cost, on the lines of the subsidised the confidence of the labour in the industrial housing scheme recommend­ present-day Government of our ed by the working group on planta­ country. A scheme for the grant of tion labour housing. national awards applicable to factories, An indicator of the standard of mines, plantations and docks was living of the working classes in the instituted for rewarding useful sugges­ level of wages. In this respect, the tions from workers to improve pro­ condition of the landless agricultural ductivity. Even though annual trends labour reveals a sad plight. They are show increase in industrial produc­ poor, ignorant and unorganised. The tivity, it does not meet the entire wages of the unorganised sector demands in the country for the goods. continued to be fixed under the To improve the productivity such Minimum Wages Act of 1948. The measures would really be helpful and State Governments have been we can be confident that labour will requested to fix at least Re. 1 a day fail in the discharge of its duties in respect of any schedule^ employ­ QOfto r>. G .-M in. CHAITRA 22, 1S87 (SAKA) of Labour 909O and Employment ment. In these days of high cost and increase agricultural production, but scarcity, the low wages of the un­ also enable the landless tillars of the organised labour are being constantly soil to become owners o f the soil and eroded. In addition to the half-starving help them to have a definite hold for condition of agricultural labour, who some living occupation. live mainly in the rural areas, the hardship and the imbalance of standards are being aggravated by the With these words, I support the method of Government spending on demands. ameliorative measures like water, sanitation, education, etc., in urban Shri K. N. Pande (Hata): Sir, first areas. A man in the town costs the of all, I would like to make a few government Rs. 100, while a man in observations on the speech made by Mr the village costs only Rs. 10. From this Elias. He said that the labour Ministry we can understand the standard of is following an anti-labour policy. I living of the unorganised landless do not at all agreeable with this labour who are not only ill-paid or remark. Due to the efforts of this min­ low-paid but also suffer under various istry more than 25 lakhs of workers handicaps because they are unorga­ have been benefited by way of nised. This imbalance affects not only enhanced wages due to the formation the social structure but also the of wage boards in different industries. economic structure. Had the ministry been against the interests of the workers, they would Our economy is based on agri­ have never appointed such wage culture, and more than 50 per cent of the national income is accounted for boards. They are now appointing by agriculture. More than 80 per cent frequently more and more Wage of the people live in villages and 70 Boards for different industries so that per cent depend on agriculture. If the the workers are benefited and are in agricultural labour which is un­ a position to meet the rising costs of organised, impoverished and half­ the day. starved, is not looked after by the Government, we cannot confidently I also want to make a few remarks say that we are socialistic and we about the speech made by Shrimati abide by the democratic system of Barkataki. It is tnie that the economic Government. So, it is high time that condition of the country cannot be our Labour Ministry under the able improved without industrialisation. leadership of Shri Sanjivayya took the But we have to realise that this necessary ameliorate measures for country has a huge population and enabling the unorganised labour to there is the serious problem of un­ get wages according to the cost of employment. So, at this stage to talk living index. about automation in this country is fatal for the workers’ interests. For Speedy steps should be taken to her information, I may say that in improve the living and working condi­ America, because of automation in tions of unorganised agricultural the automobile industry, 50 lakhs of labour. Fair-price and consumer co­ workers were unemployed, even operative stores should be started in though there is shortage of manpower rural areas. Free house-sites to land­ there. We cannot afford any such less agricultural labour should be automation in this country.- This is all allotted. The distribution of govern­ theoretical talk on which we should ment wastelands to landless labour for not give more stress here. I am in cultivation should be speeded up. With favour of improving the efficiency of thse measures, the Government; the industries; that should be done, should, wherever possible, also but not at the cost of the workers encourage the tenants to get owner­ employed. Although I have full confi­ ship of land. It will help not only to dence and belief in the working of ° ? i G. Min. APRIL 12, 1965 of Labour and Employment 909^

[Shri K. N. Pandey] 17.23 his. quate supply of foodgrains and other required materials to these fair price [Mr. Speaker in the Chair}. shops and co-operative stores. the ministry and I have no doubt that They are proposing to bring an the ministry is making sincere efforts amendment to the Factories Act. Al­ to mitigate the hardships caused to though I am pleading the cause of the the workers by rising prices, still the workers, being a realistic man I can­ situation is, such that unless some not forget the difficult situation which proper action is taken in time, it may is at the moment facing us. Unless take a serious turn. In 1963, the you make proper arrangement to see number of man-days lost was only 33 that there is adequate supply of the lakhs, but In 1964 it rose to 76 lakhs. required materials, even if you bring Why? It was due to the prices being an amendment to the Factories Act it so high. When the prices go high, it will only be a theoretical satisfaction is the workers who lose because with so far as the workers are concerned. the money they get as wages they are We may say from the housetops that unable to meet their expenses at a we have amended the Factories Act in stage when the prices go very high order to force the employers to open and remain so to an indefinite extent. more fair price shops and co-operative This condition has arisen here. The stores. How will that serve the pur­ Ministry has, therefore, to consider pose? First of all, we are ignoring one over this serious problem and decide fact that industrial workers are engag­ what to da so that these things do not ed in giving more production. They take some other shape in the coming are not at all concerned from where future. these foodgrains come. If you want more production in the industrial field I know the Ministry tried its best you have to see that the workers are and held many conferences in order given the materials that they require. to impress upon the employers the If you do not see to that, there is al­ need to open more fair price shops ready a shortage of foodgrains in the and co-operative stores in the factories country and there will be shortage in where there are more than 300 industrial production also. That will workers. About 2000 co-operative be fatal for the nation. stores have been opened. But taking into consideration the seriousness of The Labour Minister once invited the problem, these 2000 co-operative the Food Minister. Simply inviting to stores are not at all sufficient. They a conference will not do. Unless y°u are not serving the purpose for which do something concrete in this country, they were established. Even if more things cannot be solved. You cannot fair price shops and co-operative blame the workers. Shri Sharma said that the employers should be con­ stores are opened, there is the ques­ tion of supply of foodgrains to these demned for that because the size of the man-days lost is large. I think co-operative stores and fair price nobody is to be condemned for that. shops. The supplies cannot be made by Unless you make the proper arrange­ the factories themselves. The supplies ments there is no assurance from any will have to be made only by the side that the size of man-days lost will Government. If the Government fails be reduced. It will only be increased to make adequate supply of food­ in future if the workers have to make grains to these co-operative stores their own arrangements for foodgrains and also fair price shops, there is no and other things. I think it will be a meaning in the employers opening very suicidal thing and nobody can be these shops. Even if they open one sure that things will be normal; lakh co-operative stores and fair price shops things will not improve. There­ Shri A. P. Sharma: I said that the fore, what the Ministry has to do is to employers refuse to refer the disputes ensure that there is proper and ade­ to arbitration. 9093 Min. o/ CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Situation on Kutch— 9094 Labour & Employment Sind Border (Stt.) Shri K. N. Pande: Action should be cane farms. So, in other States why taken against whoever is responsible should the people get a free licence to for that, because it is a serious prob­ exploit these poor workers? If you lem. want the agricultural production to increase, you have to give help to We have to look at the condition of these agricultural workers and the the agricultural workers. Even if we only way in which the Central Labour invest Rs. 100 crores or 200 crores in . Ministry can give help is by exercising the agricultural sector it will not give its influence or power to see that the us the desired results because ours is Minimum Wages Act is implemented not a country where we can produce on a uniform basis throughout the more by mechanisation or by having whole country. more of tube-wells and tractors. Pro­ duction can be increased only by those Mr. Speaker: He should conclude who work in the fields. Unless they now. are provided with proper facilities, unless they are given increased wages Shri K. N. Pande: I will take a and other amenities how can we ex­ little more time. pect them to produce more? The im­ portance of this problem was realised Mr. Speaker: Then he will resume by the Congress Working Committee his seat just now. We will have to and so in the Durgapur session they take up some other item now. He can decided that some positive steps should continue his speech later. Now, the be taken to improve the condition of Home Minister. the agricultural workers. But what has been done? Only the other day, the question of minimum wages was 17-34 hrs. raised in this House and the hon. Labour Minister was pleased to state STATEMENT RE: SITUATION ON that we at the Centre are concerned KUTCH-SIND BORDER only with the passing of the legislation and its implementation rests with the State Governments and so it is for the T T ft o /^ # TT^fT State Governments to see that the ^T^TT f? I ^eft It agricultural workers are given proper wages. mcfl % SW T As is known to every Member, in some of the States an agricultural fSi- ^TT fffaT ^ far % worker gets 62 paise per day. Sup­ fa r 3r pose he has got three or four children, | 1 w ft ^5® % $r 3 how can he make both ends meet with this meagre wage, especially at a lime 7 3TW sftr 9 s iw , vx cffar fo ff If when the prices are going up at a fast SPTPT gtr Wf^PT rate? So, in my opinion, instead of shifting the responsibility to the States ^rTO^TTT If ^ the time has come when the Central ^ *ft ^ ^ ^TT Labour Ministry has to take upon it­ | f t q r 3 miT ^ r self the responsibility of seeing that the Minimum Wages Act is properly SFT *PIT *TT> fa>T f^TT 15 implemented in all the States. The ^®3tt f t w , sftr fo r ?fr Central Labour Ministry should see to t fa ^t ; qf^nr it that every agricultural ^worker gets not less than Rs. 2 per day. In Pun­ jab they are already getting more than Rs. 2 per day: so also* in West Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra ’n the .sugar­ t * O95 Situation on APRIL 12, 1965 Kutch— Sind 9096 Border (Stt.) *ft ^ SF^TT ^T^IT operational control of the border and Army units moved into Vigokot the g % *T^t ?TT^ ^TR same evening. This is commendable *T ®ft?Rt ^ t , sffo ®TTrft promptitude considering the distances t I ft)T 5TFT ^T and the nature of the terrain. Army patrols re-occupied Sardar post on «m rd %■ ^ Snft w r 11 w t wt’ r fra ^rrtT ?r§f ments and equipment were recovered from the neighbourhood of the post. SP^- ^ T R Zp$ 5*T ?t ST5F1 % T #

According to information received I would like to pay a tribute to the subsequent to that statement, an attack gallantry of the police force at the on our border post at Sardar com­ Sardar post which for over 12 hours menced at 03; 40 a.m . on April 9, with heroically defended themselves against heavy mortar and MMG fire, followed such heavy odds and repulsed the by artillery fire from 25 pounder guns attacks by two battalions of Pakistani under cover of which two battalions of army. The House will, I am sure, wish the Pakistan regular army belonging me to send our condolences to the to 51 Infantry Brigade advanced to­ families of those who were killed in wards the post. Our CRP (Central this action. Government would make Reserve Police) Unit stationed *♦ suitable provision for giving relief and Sardar put up a fierce resistance as a financial assistance to the bereaved result of which the Pakistan battalions and the injured. had to withdraw leaving 34 dead on the field including two officers and Apart from the precautions that have four prisoners in our hands. We lost already been taken for the security of four policemen dead, 5 were wounded the border, we lodged on April 10, a and 19 men including the Deputy strong protest with the Pakistan Gov­ Commandant of the CRP are missing ernment against the use of regular at present. army units for attacking our border police post and the unprovoked Apprehending a further attack later aggression on our territory leading to in the evening and as the Sardar post loss of life and property to our natio­ was subjected to intermittent artillery nals. Adequate compensation for the fire which became heavy in the after­ loss caused, as well as immediate with­ noon, the police withdrew to our Vigo- drawal of all forces from our territory kot post, 4 miles south-east of Sardar. leading to loss of life and property The Vigokot post was also shelled by to our nationls. Adequate compensa­ Pakistan artillery in the afternoon. tion for the loss caused, as well as im­ Hie Chief of the Army Staff was mediate withdrawal of all forces from instructed on April 9, to take over our territory, have been demanded. 9097 Situation on CHAITRA 22, 18 87 ( SA&A) Kutch—Sind 9098 Border (Stt.) Simultaneously, Members of the Secu­ Shri Hem Barua (Gauhati): Su, rity Council and Governments of Pakistan have built two posts in this friendly nations have been addressed area-some months back and it is only with a view to acquainting them with recently that it seems our Grovernment the grave happening which have dan­ have come to know about the existence gerous possibilities if Pakistan per­ of these Pakistani posts and at the sists in its present aggressive posture same time our Government was de­ in the Kutch-Sind border area. pending too much on the floods to drive away these armed Pakistani in­ T^ere was no incident on 10th and truders. In that connection, may I 11th April, 1965. This morning there know, since our police force is meant has been an exchange of fire between for the problem of law and order in­ the Pakistan forces and our men in the side the country and not for interna­ neighbourhood of Sardar post and in­ tional disputes and international ag­ termittent shelling has taken place. gression and all that, why is it that Our forces are alert and the situation the strategic border which is vulner­ is well under control. able also, was left to the policemen— some of them have died and we The Government’s policy in this express our condolences to the breaved matter is clear. We are taking every families—and why is it that the Gov­ step to protect the integrity of our ernment straightway did not give this frontier. On the 10th April our High border to the defence forces to defend Commissioner in Karachi was told by it? the Pakistan Government that there should be a meeting between the two Sir, my argument is this___ Governments first at the official and thereafter at the Ministers’ level. The Mr. Speaker: I have heard him. House will recall that this was the proposal made in our notes of the 18th Shri Nanda: In the first place, to February and 11th March to the Pak­ say that some months back those istan Government. We wish that Pak­ places were occupied is not istan had accepted our proposal be­ correct at all. I gave the fore mounting an attack by the Pak­ information that it was only a recent istan Army on our border force. occurrence and even then it was not However, we are prepared for these occupation in that sense. They were talks and we are communicating this standing posts, that is, people were to the Pakistan Government. coming and going. These are the facts. Shri Himmatsinhji (Kutch): The Shri Hem Barua: It comes to the hon. Minister often refer to the terra­ same thing. in. I would like to know that since 1956, when the incident in Chhadbet Shri Nanda: There is a distinction took place, why have they not been between that. Let us understand it able to have good border roads so that because it has a meaning and a bear­ they could be used for patrolling pur­ ing, As soon as they were there im­ poses all the year round? mediately all further action on our Shri Nanda: Some construction and part was taken. Previously also, we improvement of roads was done but had taken certain precautions with re­ this part has not been fully covered. gard to Vigokot I may inform the hon. Members that, when I visited the area, I looked into Shri Hem Barua: He has not re­ the whole matter. Some investiga­ plied the other aspect of the question. tions for the construction of roads have Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (Ken- been made and the rest are going to drapara): He has not replied that. be completed before it becomes im­ possible due to the monsoon to move Mr. Speaker: Is it in pursuance of In that area. < , some international agreement that w« 9099 Situation on APRIL 12, 1965 Kutch—Sind Border (Stt.) [Mr. Speaker] have to employ this border police at these borders? His question was: Why «ft : TTmtq" ^ ^TeT TOT did we not post military straightway in | I ^ T O fa%dO «PT ^ tf the first instance? ^rT^^f«TTl^5fr 9eTRtg-^Tfe^T Shri Nanda: No, Sir; this is not T||[ *ft OT 3W WZ ffrRTTT *flN ftrl-41 done like that We have the border W «IT sflr 3^fat SPTW *f *TT^ 3f ^Ftf reserve police. This is intended for ^nHr srk ?r ft yi^ftft these purposes. It is not only here. Then there is the backing of the army fpnrt er^F 37^: 3r fesnrrt v i 1 and it is a proper division of labour. Therefore, I think, this is the right (#TRT) : W # thing. Wherever the police can be ^TR ^eTT ^ fa Wg # qfrf^T% ?fK useful, we do employ police. W fi^RT t o qi^ | ?fh: ^rwix f sftOTTSt (% n r ) : STSZTSTiTfteq-, ^T^Cfe^Td ^^WeT^27?TcTtT|‘ft %TT 37JTrr^ «pt | | ^ ef^ W df*4H ^nr- * f%«rf^T # TO qjap-1 ?

TeT I s fk fa**T % f^RRRT ^ % Shri Swaran Sin^h: There is no­ % tH T T T^TT I OT % 5TR *ft thing to answer. v i w f t f f w f r y i r sft-fl *rr Shri f Nanda: Am I expected to SFFTt W eft ^ feqT% % f^XT % answer it?—In the firct place, 1 m;.y 9enr^-^ftfar appeal to the House and sa y th it action is in progress there at the Sftrcr ^tt qr 7^% ^ moment. w «rr 1 ^ r s r c + ii ^ Shri Ranga (Chittoor): Therefore, q t e qrfaRnfaiff vr prr you need not give any answer? qrfa^TR ^ e f^ ^ qr ^TT «TT eft ^fcftT % q r T|pt WTT TO Shri Nanda: All the information that I have and I can give I am giving spt «rr ? Anything else that we are called upon to give, certainly we will do that. nww i^hm : ^ft t o But the question of war etc. does not arise. We are taking all the action required; whatever is required to be ^PTSFTT ^Tf ft't'dJ ^ I done i'i being done. What is the use of asking us to call it a war, this or VPTft : *T^t spT that? There is a border dispute also. ?nff trwt i Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta Central): I am prepared to appre­ : JJ# i^r ^TFf ciate that it is necessary for us to ^ TftlTT ^TT *TT TT^faT exercise great forbearance in our re­ lations with Pakistan, for various his­ torical reasons. At the same time, it 9101 Situation on CHAITRA 22, 18 87 (SAKA) Kutch—Sind 9102 Border (Stt.) does appear as if, by manufacturing ** (srafk) : % all kinds of incidents in different parts of our border, there is a deliberate fa> 3 ^t % TRT H ^l attempt on the part of Pakistan to ^narr g w «ik '■•n fafacf escalate a situation into something ft w r far which may be a little too difficult for us. That being the situation—and that is what I guess from the state­ W Tf>t£ t ment by the Home Minister—I would like Government to come before Par­ liament, to present the facts in its possession, to give us some idea, as sft : +1^ fav5TT *T|?t f[ I ^ft far as it is possible for him to do so, *ri fpnr ^ snfr sft | *ftr ^ of the kind of preparations which we have got all over the place and, at the same time, to tell the world what *t is our version of this matter. My WFU ^ SRT fanTT sfk ft experience is that Pakistan succeeds in putting us in the dock, so to say, ^rert a w t by giving a wrong version of the3e ^>T*rf+^l I fa*ft- events, while we express our forbear­ Ml tl f I ance, sometime; playing into the game M\{ which Pakistan plays against us. Shri Bade: I want to know about the Kanjarkot fort which has fallen. Therefore, it is necessary for Gov­ ernment and Parliament to snare con­ ’Tffa^fFT % ^ m fidences to as much an extent as is *V possible so that Parliament can give Government the sanction to go ahead, Shri Nanda: There is no fort, and nothing has fallen. Kanjarkot is not I am glad that the Home Minister a fort at all. What he means to say, has told us that the Security Council as he has said it, is about Vigokot and has been informed and that friendly Sardar posts. They are both in our countries have also been told about hands. Th^re is no fort anywhere this kind of depredation of our bor­ there. ders. I notice also that the word ‘aggression’ is used in a part of his statement in regard to this latest ac­ Shri Khadilkar (Khed): In the tion of Pakistan’s. past, we have more or less been deal­ ing with aggression on the border so This sort of thing might go too far far as India and Pakistan are con­ and we might be caught napping. For cerned and the tactics of hit and run that purpose, I would like Govern­ go on. Duplicity with impudence is ment to have a discussion here in this practised. But never were they ready, House so that knowing the delicacy nor did they take initiative, for talks. and difficulty of the situation and For the first time they have indicated being confident also about our res­ on this occasion their inclination for ponsibility in this matter, Parliament talks. Would it not be better now, can express itself and strengthen the because formerly a meeting between hands of Government in pursuance of the two Home Ministers was to take the right policy and the righteous place and it was postponed, for us to defence of the integrity of our bor­ decide once and for all that we will der. not initiate talks unless over-all dis­ cussion regarding the border intrusions Mr. Speaker: It is only a sugges­ and the occnsional aggressions that are tion. being practised by Pakistan are stop- 9103 Situation on APRIL 12, 1965 Kutch— Sind 9164 Border (Stt.) [Shri Khadilkar] ped and all points of dispute are dis­ Shri Raghunath Singh (Varanasi): cussed? May I know what types of American arms were used by Pakistanis on this Shri Nanda: This is again a sug­ front? gestion. Shri Nanda: We have mentioned Mr. Speaker: That might be consi­ the types. That there were those dered. 25-pounders has been mentioned; that there was artillery has also been men­ Shri D. C. Sharma (Gurdaspur): The tioned. There was some American plan for aggression was drawn up in equipment. the second week of March according tc the statement of the hon. Home Mr. Speaker: Shri Joachim Alva. Minister, and the actual aggression took place on 9th April, 1965. May I Shri Hem Barua: May I know know if our intelligence services are whether our Government has protest­ so poor, so resourceless and so in­ ed to the American Government, be­ adequate as not to forewarn us about cause on a previous occasion the late what Pakistan is going to do, what Prime Minister gave us an assurance Pakistan is aiming at and what Pakis­ Mr. Speaker: Order, order. tan intends to do? What I mean to say is this. Shri Hem Barua: May 1 submit that the late Prime Minister gave us Mr. Speaker: That is all. The ques­ an assurance here that if Pakistan tion has come now. used American weapons, we would protest, and the American Ambassador Shri D. c. Sharma: The intelligence in Delhi had also given him an assu­ service requires to be strengthened so rance? that we can forestall them. Mr. Speaker: Not in this manner. I have called another Member. Shri Nanda: I share the concern of the hon. Member and also ol Shri Shri Joachim Alva (Kanara): Mukerjee about the situation. This We have notably six border points to information we were able to obtain guard against Pakistan, on the Rajas­ because of these developments, of our than side, Gujarait side, Assam side, bringing these people, and they gave Bengal side and Punjab side, the that information. It may not be pos­ prince of it all being in Kashmir. sible for us to know immediately secret What I want to ask the hon. Defence orders inside there, but we should Minister is—I had also given notice— certainly have to maintain our intelli­ this: are we sufficiently armed on gence to the utmost level, particularly these points? Can we afford after 17 in view of these developments. long years to tolerate any more this hatred which has come from Pakistan Shri A. N. Vidyalankar (Hoshiar- with the connivance and direct en­ pur): In a section of the press there couragement of China? Are we also was some reference to the construc­ arming the population of these areas? tion of a road by Pakistanis on that We cannot leave this population help­ border. Is the Minister sure, or can less in a state of panic. Are we he assure the House, that the constrc- sending___ tion of that road was not in our ter­ Mr. Speaker: Order, order. That ritory? should be enough. ■Skri Nanda: There was no cons­ Shri Joachim Alva: Are we send­ truction of a road. There was a track ing families of retired service men between two poets. to settle there? 9105 Situation on CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Kutch—Sind 9106 Border (Stt.) Mr. Speaker: No, not so many questions. ^ m srprc sfifr, w i t sraFT wtft *ft SHE WK % Shri Joachim Alva: I will finish. fa — 3R- $ SFT^r w z ^ r ^rr ipfffa ?RT Vift % fa% ^ ^TR Mr. Speaker: No, I will not allow. Three or four questions have been fa*TT I — sft fawr qT qfj- ZTT f , put. I will not allow any more. *tt ^ tt ^ ?rrr t s wtfw*, ^fffa sfrc t o % ^rnr Shri Joachim Alva: I will finish in one minute. | fa Sr ?r FTTXcf t, 3^TT fa r ?T This is a rehearsal of a bigger show, a double-pronged attack that is to + ^"RT ^TfTf ^TTvft come from Pakistan and China. ^c*T ^ I WTK W R W Zt *ft *TfT Lastly, have we taken the initiative ^ %

Shri Nanda: We are taking into m j 5if«RT w ft («ft account the possibilities. But I can­ 5TTF5ft) : not give him what steps are being taken. ^ TOT ^HTT TOFT fTRT | f t ^ + 1 q t e ^ i ^ Shri Ranga: Sir, what did he say t fa ^ ^ *pr STRT about the last question, whether he SPffit ^Tcff ^Tt |U has protested to America or not? v r w f t I s to If Shri Nanda: Yes, Sir. m * fkft | *1^ «ll^f 'STicft eft Shri S. N. Chaturvedi (Ferozabad): ^ fa STT^ft fam May I know whether Pakistan is play­ ing this game because we have all I id % ftrr cPHX •T^" along bean on the defensive and she t I has the initiative to strike wherever she likes? Shall we not now reverse this policy by making effective reta­ Ti’o TW : ?rwrer liation at 'points where their posts are weak and pay Pakistan back in her own coin? : «ft ^ f f | Mr. Speaker: That also is a sug­ gestion. Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): From the statement of the hon. Home Minis­ T(o (^< 91- ter it is clear that American arms havs : snarer $ w f t ^Tcr ^ been used by Pakistan and those who Situation on APRIL 12, 1965 Kutch-^Sind 9I07 Border (Stt.) [Shri S. M. Banerjee] had been arrested also gave it out Shri Bade: No, Sir. during the interrogation. I think he Mr. Speaker: Then he should wait. .has also given out this fact. May I know whether it has been brought to sftwoSoSmf (to r) mifowH the notice of the American Govern­ ment that the arms given to Pakistanis are being used against India and that it is against all the assurances given ftHlfffff ^fTT I I STOt to the late lamented Prime Minister? I would like to know whether ^ eft ^ STT STRTt I Mr. Chester Bowles met our Prime eft t ^ STRTT ^T^TT g fo ^ 3 f Minister recently, yesterday or the spr y»i«rer % fin? spnrt cr-w % day before, and whether it has been made clear to him also to convey to w f t % WT5TT his Government that the Indian Gov­ ePTT oZT^TT ^snrnft ? ernment and the Indian people feel very sore about it? Shri Nanda: I have answered it ear­ Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri: It is lier. quite clear that what Pakistan has done—we consider it wrong on their Shri Ranga: We could not follow it. part to have used the United States arms. As stated this morning by the Mr. Speaker: He said that he has Defence Minister, it is to be taken with already answered it earlier. This is them: it will be taken up immediately not a new thing; otherwise, i would (Interruptions.) have brought it to his notice. Shri Hem Barua: Sir, on a point Shri Bade: Just now the Prime of order. This morning the hon. De­ Minister said that Kanjarkot is not in fence Minister stated . . . our possession, and that we shall take all steps to take possession of it. But, Mr. Speaker: Order, order. when I put the question, the Home Minister said that Kanjarkot is in our ■Shri Hem Barua: It is very impor­ possession. tant, Sir. Mr. Speaker: It 'may be important. Some Hon. Members: No, no Have I called him? He should not Shri Bade: I want to know the cor­ begin to talk unless I have called him. rect position. (Interruption). 18 hrs. Mr. Speaker; Order, order. Ms Shri Hem Barua: There is a dis­ only contradicated that there was no crepancy. quila. ‘Kot’ is usually meant for quila, but it was said that there is r.o quila. Mr. Speaker: But why should he stand up when I have not called him? Shri Ranga: He told us so a wf.*ek I shall call him afterwards. But he ago. cannot start just shooting off words like that. I shall give him an oppor­ Shri Bade: I want to know whe­ tunity. ther Kanjarkot is in our possession or Shri Bade: It is very important. not and whether we are fighting and fighting is going on near that post or Mr. Speaker: It will lose its im­ not. I want to know whether that portance after one question has been fact is real or true or not. (Inter­ put? ruption) . 0100 Situation on CHAITRA 22, 1887 (SAKA) Kutch^Sind 9110 y * Border (Stt.) Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He particular area. Why should he try wants to know about the actuol posi­ to throw dust into our eyes? tion of Kanjarkot. Shri Y. B. Chavan: Evidence was Shri Nanda: I made a statement. I known to us only yesterday. This said that at two points the Pakistani morning also I mentioned about this. Rangers are there. They had their I also mentioned about the evidence standing posts. That position has not in respect of the Kashmir dease-fire been altered. ^But their further line. This also, I mentioned. When aggression on Sardar Post and Yigokot I said “I think we have” , it had refe­ Post has been repulsed, and we have rence to that. got Sardar Post and Vigokot Post. sft *** WWW : smt (^rrcr) : % fa

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«rCTr^r : ? rrr # 5 ^ r r ^ j t *TT *£5 SFFeTT g ? ^?ft ^t ^rr Tfr ?itt <^1 eft 6 ^+1^1 ^1^1 % «iK ’HIM TO *ffa T^ t ? ^ eTT | f^ % T O fR TTt fe p ft «TFft?T| I W T ^ftsrH^T^rTTl^TO W ^ I ^T ^t 'STFRHTt frTvPft ? SH^TST Hpn?i| : STFT MTvf TO ^TT ^ r t | ? «ft feT^T ^ H3 : ^t^T, ^T ^T stpt to" ^ 5 ^t^tt t was put, but he could not follow tne m $Pwi % w ft *rr>rf ^t answer. § fa ^ ^ rft 3?tt ^ mt ^t t | f sftr Mr. Speaker: He put the question fpr fq£ ^tt t^ f ^c+fMi’T % ^tft 5t i how much Weis the area that had t>een taken. The Minister answered that he could not tell the exact area. «fi g**T TO : 5ft 5T^T ^T ^ tTT Pi^c||^ | ijST ^§t f t ^ Shri Ranga: He could not follow ^c(H ^ ^wil j£ 'd^+T ^TTT H^l ^ldlr that. ifffVfrnH * l^TTTt frfiT'ft tf*ffcr ff*ft ? Mr. Speaker: He followed that an right.

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