Fucking Winter Outside 15 Dmitry Vilenski Artur Żmijewski
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Dimitry Vilensky (b. 1964) is an art- Artur Żmijewski (b. 1966) is an art- ist, writer and founding member of the group ist, primarily working with photography and Chto delat?/What is to be done? and serves as film. He studied in the sculpture class of Pro- 15 dmitry Vilenski the editor of its magazine. Chto delat?/What is fessor Grzegorz Kowalski at the Warsaw Art to be done? is a platform that was initiated in Academy from 1990 to 1995, as well as the Ger- Artur ŻmijeWski 2003 by a collective of artists, critics, philoso- rit Rietveld Academie in Amsterdam in 1999. phers, and writers with the goal of merging In 2005, he represented Poland at the 51st Art political theory, art, and activism. Vilensky Biennale in Venice showing a video “Repeti- regularly contributes to the group’s online tion” – a reenactment of the famous experi- magazine and he is member of the editorial ment of Phillip G. Zimbardo . He is member of board of the Art Journal. His most recent work, the Polish political movement “Krytyka Poli- created with Tsaplya [Olga Egorova], was a tyczna” and the art director of the magazine of video entitled “Russian woods” (2012) that was the same name. He curated the 7th Berlin Bi- Fucking Winter published on the group’s website [www.ch- ennale for Contemporary Art in 2012, which todelat.org]. Exhibitions of his work and that developed his position on social activism, for- of Chto delat?/What is to be done? include: “The mulated earlier in his manifesto The Applied So- Outside Lesson on Dis-Consent”, Staatliche Kunsthalle cial Arts (2007). He lives and works in Warsaw. Baden-Baden (2011), “Chto Delat? Perestroika: Twenty Years After: 2011-1991”, Kölnische Kun- stverein (2011), “Study, study and Act again”, Moderna Gelerija (Mala Galerija), Ljubliana (2011), “What is to be done between tragedy and farce?”, Smart Project Space, Amsterdam (2011). He has also participated in number of group shows, including: “Truth is concrete: A 24/7 marathon camp”, Sterische Herbst, Graz (2012), “Moving forward, counting backwards. Eastern Europe Palestra”, MUAC, Mexico City (2012), “Living as Form”, Creative Time, New York (2011), “Ostalgia”, New Museum of Con- temporary Art, New York (2011). Vilensky lives and works in St. Petersburg. Did you hear that we have established Chto delat ? to reach a communist revolution by 2005? Unfortunately, in 2005 we didn’t reach it. But we are not departing, either to the moon or the Van Abbe Museum. Would you call me opportunist instead of revolutionist? That kind of cate- gorization doesn’t help to get out of the situation. AŻ: Do you know any Russian brands? DV: Vodka. Vodka is Russian. This radio and that lamp are from Soviet times. AŻ: Yes, and petrol… DV: … the whole of Europe is depending on Russian gas. Anyway I am sure that Europe will work it out soon. Then Russia will really wake up! I would predict some kind of Arab Spring situation in Russia. Can you imagine Putin in 12 years? He will be about 74. In the next 20 years Russia will be steadily running out of resources… AŻ: What do you mean by saying that “Russia will wake up”? What art can do in this situation? Do you have any ideas as 16 Dmitry Vilensky and Artur Żmijewski 17 Fucking Winter OutsiDe to what can be done? What is to be done? Chto delat? suing certain politics. In Russia there is a tendency to separate aes- DV: I think right now we have to impose some modest tasks thetics from politics and economics. From the very beginning, the on ourselves, rather than diving into radical leftism… Chto delat? group claimed that aesthetics was not an innocent activ- AŻ: Modest or soft? ity isolated from politics and economy, and through our works we DV: Not soft, but modest. For example, we should insist on have insisted that the task of art is emancipatory politics. We start a certain radicalism in thinking. I am very partial to Antonio Gram- communication with the presumption that we are all equal with the sci’s idea of a war of position – you are a kind of small unit which public. So it’s about emancipation and equality. Recently, I had a very wants to survive and gain new participants. interesting talk with Gerald Raunig2 concerning the “winter years”. AŻ: Do you want to create a small community, in which you Gerald told me, “Oh Dmitry, you know, you are so defensive right now. will survive? I remember you were different, what happened to you?” and I said, DV: We have already done that. We have created an envi- “Gerald, it’s fucking winter outside. If you ran outside naked, full of ronment in which, for example, I don’t feel alone when I am back in joy with the red flag, you’d be frozen in five minutes. And then your Russia, rather than Europe. brain and your body will be rather useless for the task of the future AŻ: This strategy seems to no longer be offensive. Your film transformation. So, if you want to do it, please take into considera- Museum Songspiel 1 was a self-critique of the art world, which is now tion what season it is, and don’t pretend that the Californian sun is dominated by leftist views but not leftist practice. People have ideas shining outside when it’s actually a Russian winter. but do not practice them. That’s what the movie is about: let’s be on AŻ: Coming back to your film: I think it’s good criticism and the side of the “others”, but not in the very moment when they need it can function well within the art system, but at the same time, I don’t real support. And that’s what makes all these ideas artificial. By the see anything risky about it. The criticism of the film remains within way, what I’ve read on your website was about politicising the cul- the art world. As usual, it’s welcome for art institutions to declare tural field. This is a very ambitious goal in a situation where people how self-conscious they are simply by showing the film, always with- hate politics. out any actions or movement. DV: Yes, absolutely. DV: I have to disagree with you. We always try to test the AŻ: Could you tell me about the ways in which you are try- art world with the situation outside. Our film is not an institutional ing to politicise the cultural field? And why are you currently in this critique. We construct an intervention from outside in our film, defensive position? You speak about danger and the risk of artistic showing how the art world operates under certain conditions that activity in Russia, given that some things are forbidden and you might are not determined by the autonomy of art world. We show the find yourself in prison. moment when autonomy is broken. We ask: “how would you behave DV: When I speak about danger, I mean the danger of pur- if your privileged position were questioned?”, and then we say “ok, how far would you go with your radical politics and to what extent 1 “Museum Songspiel: The Netherlands 20XX” (NL 2011, c. 25 min) is a staged musical which takes place in Van Abbemuseum, Eindhoven. It 2 Gerald Raunig is a philosopher and art theorist. He works at the Zürich tells the story of a group of immigrants fleeing deportation by State University of the Arts and eipcp (European Institute for Progressive authorities. They seek refugee in the museum of art, understanding it to Cultural Poliecies in Vienna). He is co-editor of the multilingual web be an institution that defends the rights of minorities and supports journal “Transversal” and the Austrian journal for radical democratic those who are politically oppressed. “Museum Songspiel” was realized cultural politics “Kultrrisse”. His recent books include: Critics of Creativity by members of the Chto delat? group: Tsaplya (Olga Egorova), Nina (co-edited with Gene Ray and Ulf Wuggeninig) (2011), A Thousand Machines: Gasteva Glukya (Natalya Pershina-Yakimanskaya), Mikhail Ivanov and A Concise Philosophy of Machine as Social Movement (2010), and Art and Contem- Dimitry Vilensky. porary Critical Practice: Reinventing Institutional Critique (co-edited with Gene Ray) (2009). 18 Dmitry Vilensky and Artur Żmijewski 19 Fucking Winter OutsiDe are you ready to take responsibility for it?”. We expose a probable the intelligentsia. We feel a little bit like Soviet dissidents, but with situation when any decision is risky and test how the system will the privilege of enjoying international cultural life. react. But tell me, what kind of work do you consider risky? Maybe AŻ: Do you feel like a dissident or would you accept that then I could better explain why doing Museum Songspiel was particu- label? larly risky for us as artists. At present, we have a very strong and con- DV: Yes, we have dissident roots from the 80s. There’s also fusing discussion about what is risky in Russia. A real criterion of risk another problem, the problem of generations. Young people are pur- is the police coming to your door. If they’re not coming, then you’re suing different politics, and I’m not sure how they can relate to the apparently full of shit. But I don’t think that’s the only way to assess kind of dissident politics which appeals to us. We come from the old a risk. What do you think is risky? Thomas Hirschhorn, Santiago circles – Soviet circles of artists and the intelligentsia from the begin- Sierra, or your own work? ning of the 80s.