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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 4 February 2016 the Council Continued to Meet at Nine O'clock

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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 4 February 2016 the Council Continued to Meet at Nine O'clock LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 4867 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 4 February 2016 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. 4868 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 4869 THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU, J.P. 4870 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 4871 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE GREGORY SO KAM-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MR GODFREY LEUNG KING-KWOK, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 4872 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 BILLS Committee Stage CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Members. Council continues to consider the Copyright (Amendment) Bill 2014. We continue with the first debate, the theme of which concerns the amendments proposed to add sections relating to provisions for restriction on contract override in respect of copyright exceptions. COPYRIGHT (AMENDMENT) BILL 2014 (Mr Gary FAN stood up) MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): A quorum is not present in the Chamber now. Please do a headcount. CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms Emily LAU, please speak. MS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Chairman, I rise to speak in support of the amendments proposed by Mr CHAN Kam-lam on behalf of Mr Dennis KWOK, which seek to impose restriction on contract override, so that no contract can preclude netizens from enjoying the exceptions, including the several exceptions proposed by the Government in the Copyright (Amendment) Bill 2014 (the Bill). Chairman, on 28 January, we had a debate on an adjournment motion because we hoped that the authorities could have more time to handle this issue. In his speech back then, the Chairman of the Bills Committee, Mr CHAN Kam-lam, proposed that a four-party meeting could be convened while lobbying LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 4873 support from the copyright owners, the pro-establishment camp and the Government for the fair use doctrine. This is what he said on 28 January. Subsequently, there were certainly discussions among Members and the netizens also discussed this with great enthusiasm, because we all thought that if Mr CHAN Kam-lam could convene a four-party meeting, this debate could end earlier and the situation that happened just now, which must have put you, Chairman, and colleagues on tenterhooks, would probably arise less frequently. Chairman, on 31 January, the Keyboard Frontline ― Chairman, you may have heard of it, which is a very active netizens' organization established in 2011 with the objective of defending Internet freedom. Back then when this organization was set up, we were scrutinizing the Copyright (Amendment) Bill 2011 which was already referred to as "Internet Article 23" then. This organization has very seriously read and studied what Mr CHAN kam-lam said on that day. Chairman, they issued a press release on 31 January, stating that they had all along put up only three demands in respect of the Bill. They hope that the Bill will clearly provide that the offence of "accessing to computer with criminal or dishonest intent" under the Crimes Ordinance does not apply to cases of copyright infringement. They also demand the inclusion in a new exception the contract override provision under discussion now, so that contractual terms restricting the copyright exceptions will be unenforceable, thereby providing genuine exemption from civil liabilities. They also hope that open-ended exceptions can be introduced, namely fair use and the user-generated content (UGC) exceptions, so that creation would not be limited to several approaches and hence, the interest of copyright owners can be balanced while the freedoms of creation and expression can be protected. Chairman, it has all along been the concern of many Members and the authorities that the Keyboard Frontline insisted on the acceptance of the three demands altogether, but as they clearly said in their statement on 31 January, the three demands are not indispensable wholesale. Therefore, they are happy to hear Mr CHAN Kam-lam say that he is willing to do something about fair use. Chairman, they said that they very much wished to see a four-party meeting convened by Mr CHAN as soon as possible and that they would take part in this meeting with the aim of creating the conditions for breaking the impasse. They hope that Mr CHAN Kam-lam can provide a list of joint signatures by the pro-establishment Members in support of the amendment on fair use and that there will not be any new amendment or condition attached to the amendment on fair use. Besides … 4874 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 February 2016 CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms LAU, fair use is grouped under the next debate. MS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Chairman, what I am saying is that if we can reach an agreement on fair use, we probably do not have to argue with each other in this discussion today. So, Chairman, please be a little more patient and let me finish saying just a few more words. Please take a look at your colleagues here. How they are listening with that look of interest. Besides, the Keyboard Frontline said that the Government and the copyright owners should openly agree to accept this amendment on fair use. Chairman, you may find this very annoying, just as many people do. But if I do not express these views, we will only be discussing continuously these matters relating to contract override and in the end, the amendment, though proposed by Mr CHAN Kam-lam, may probably be negatived and then we will have to go on with the discussion. We very much welcome the expression of views by all sides freely. The netizens also very much wish to express their views. But in the meantime, all sides (including the Keyboard Frontline) wish that a solution can be identified.
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