Tuesday Volume 524 8 March 2011 No. 128

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 8 March 2011

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Luciana Berger: Will the Secretary of State give us House of Commons more detail on how local authorities will be incentivised to innovate in public health, given that hospitals rather Tuesday 8 March 2011 than councils will benefit financially from better public health?

The House met at half-past Two o’clock Mr Lansley: In the first instance, local authorities have the direct incentive that they represent the people who elect them and so will want to use the public health PRAYERS resources available to them to deliver the best possible public health services to their local population. The intention of our proposals, which has been very strongly [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] supported, not least by the British Medical Association, the Faculty of Public Health, the Local Government Association and others, is to put public health resources alongside the range of responsibilities of local authorities Oral Answers to Questions which will have the greatest impact on the overall determinants of health: education, employment, housing, environment, transport and the like. HEALTH Nick Smith: Will the Secretary of State assure us that the forthcoming tobacco plan will be both comprehensive The Secretary of State was asked— and targeted to ensure that smoking rates are reduced? Will he promote what works, such as the use of smokers group help sessions, which the Public Accounts Committee Public Health Duties found to be very effective, and will he limit the recruitment of new smokers by banning tobacco displays in shops? 1. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): How much funding he plans to allocate to local authorities Mr Lansley: In the public health White Paper, which to perform new public health duties in each of the next was just mentioned, the Government committed to four years. [44476] publish a tobacco control plan, and we will present that to the House shortly. 6. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): How much funding he plans to allocate to local Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): A public authorities to perform new public health duties in each health function which is funded by the Department of of the next four years. [44481] Health is carried out by the charity Marie Stopes. The last accounts available for this registered charity are 9. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): How much from 2009 and, upon inquiry, it appears that no further funding he plans to allocate to local authorities to accounts will be available for scrutiny until October 2011. perform new public health duties in each of the next Does the Secretary of State think that that is transparent? four years. [44485] Is it good enough?

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her Through the Health and Social Care Bill, we will give question. As a registered charity, Marie Stopes is of local authorities the powers and resources they need to course under an obligation to follow the rules and improve the health and well-being of their local populations guidelines established by the Charity Commission on and to improve the health of the poorest fastest. To such matters. To that extent, these are not directly support planning by local authorities, I will later this matters for me. year announce shadow allocations for 2012-13 for the Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): local ring-fenced public health budget. On international women’s day, what assurances can the Secretary of State give about the protection of reproductive Steve Rotheram: Will the Secretary of State explain and sexual services within the new framework? whether reforms outlined in the public health White Paper “Healthy lives, Healthy people” allow for a new Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will know that through formula for public health spending that sufficiently the plans set out in the Health and Social Care Bill the compensates deprived areas that have higher health commissioning of those services will be the responsibility needs, such as Liverpool? respectively of the NHS commissioning board and local authorities. Through local authorities, and as part of Mr Lansley: Yes, it is certainly our intention that that our public health responsibilities, we will be looking to should happen. The consultation on the structure of the promote good sexual health and high-quality support health premium, which does not close until 31 March, is for people who need assistance with reproduction. specifically designed to secure responses so that we can design the health premium to support local authorities Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): My right hon. in delivering the greatest increment in health improvement Friend has referred to the ring-fencing of the money among those populations that currently have the poorest that is going to be given to local authorities. Will he health. We will also continue to get advice from the advise the House how long he expects that ring-fencing Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation so that to last? Is it until such time as local authorities can be that is technically supported by the best advice. trusted to spend the money on public health? 755 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 756

Mr Lansley: The purpose of the ring-fencing is not to warning from Macmillan Cancer Support and others force local authorities to spend money on public health that the Welfare Reform Bill proposal to end abruptly that they would not otherwise spend, but to be very the eligibility for employment support allowance after clear that that NHS money is in the hands of local 12 months is both unfair and arbitrary, particularly for authorities to deliver health gain. We want that transparency, those who have the fewest resources, as they try to and we want to link those resources directly to the recover from cancer? achievement of the public health outcomes that we set out in draft in our consultation on the public health Paul Burstow: That sounds more like a Second Reading outcomes framework. As there is that separate intention speech on the Welfare Reform Bill than a Health oral to deliver overall public health outcomes, linked to the question; but of course, we listen carefully to what local health improvement plans, we wanted to be clear Macmillan says. We work closely with it on many that those resources would be deployed for that purpose. aspects of our cancer strategy, but it is also important But local authorities will have very wide discretion to bear in mind that we need to ensure that people who about how they deliver those services locally to secure are suffering from cancer receive the benefits to which that health gain. they are entitled in a timely fashion, and we are working on that with colleagues from the Department for Work Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) and Pensions. (Lab): Does the Secretary of State accept that the public could be forgiven for worrying that things will Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Mr Speaker, get worse, rather than better, in relation to public health? you might remember in the last Parliament that a That is true of his health reforms across the piece, young constituent of mine—a five-year-old boy—had partly because, as we know, some local authorities are neuroblastoma and that his likelihood of surviving that already cutting public expenditure given the budget cuts rare cancer was very small, but thanks to the intervention that they have to make, but also because of the difficulty of Ann Keen in the last Parliament and working together, in effectively ring-fencing the new funds that will be I am pleased to say that it has just been announced that given to local authorities in due course. that little boy is clear of cancer. Will the Minister comment on whether, as I hope, it will not be so difficult Mr Lansley: In the first instance, I am not sure how in this Parliament to get treatment for such cases? the hon. Lady can argue that there is a difficulty with ring-fencing public health budgets, as they are not and Paul Burstow: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his will not be formally in the hands of local authorities question, and I share his satisfaction and pleasure at the until 2013-14. Clearly, there are no such practical issues successful treatment that his constituent’s son received. at the moment. Further, she should have reflected the Certainly, on cancer survival rates and cancer outcomes, simple fact that we are already working between the we need to make sure not just that we are delivering for NHS and local authorities to deliver much greater the most typical cancers, but that we have good processes co-ordination in health, public health and social care. that ensure early diagnosis of all cancers. For example, this financial year, because we made savings in the Department of Health’s budget, we were able to provide, through primary care trusts, £162 million extra NHS Reform for the purpose of delivering improvements in social care in local authorities. Local authorities are having to 3. Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab): What recent deal with substantial reductions in their formula grant representations he has received on his proposed and some reductions in their spending power, but the reforms of the NHS. [44478] NHS and social care are getting a substantial increase in support, both from the formula grant of my right 11. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): What hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and recent representations he has received on his proposed Local Government and specifically through the NHS. reforms of the NHS. [44487]

Cancer Mortality Rates The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns): The Government received more than 6,000 2. Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): responses to the White Paper consultations. As a result, What steps he plans to take to reduce cancer mortality we have significantly strengthened both our approach rates in deprived communities. [44477] to implementation and our proposals in the Health and Social Care Bill. We continue to engage widely across The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul the health sector on our modernisation plans. Burstow): “Improving Outcomes: A Strategy for Cancer” sets out our plans to reduce mortality rates by tackling Mr Hepburn: Is not it only a Tory Government who preventable incidence and improving survival rates for can bring a system into the NHS whereby doctors get those diagnosed with cancer. As we make it clear in the paid more for giving less treatment to their patients? strategy, we cannot deliver the reductions without a What does the Minister have to say to the chairman of focus on poorer socio-economic groups. the BMA’s GP committee, who described the plans for the quality premium as “appallingly unethical”? Chris Leslie: I wonder whether the Minister has seen the statistic that 70% of people with cancer can lose half Mr Burns: I have to admire the hon. Gentleman’s their income during the course of their disease. Obviously, sheer gall, because, of course, it was his own Government’s those who are least well-off will be hit the most. Would 2004 contract with GPs that enabled them to do less it not be best therefore for the Government to heed the work for far more money. 757 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 758

Tony Lloyd: The Minister will know that a concern I asked the Minister whether London’s A and E about the Government’s health policies is the increased departments would be on the safe list of designated role for the private sector. He will also be aware that at services that will not close, he said that the Christie hospital in Manchester 150 jobs have been “I suspect the answer is that no…it will not be a designated transferred from the NHS to the private contractor on service…there is a significant number of A and E services in that site. Will he give the people of the north-west an London. There would not be a need to designate them”.––[Official absolute guarantee that we will not have twin-track Report, Health and Social Care Public Bill Committee, 1 March cancer treatment at Christie’s and that there will not be 2011; c. 349.] a fast track for the private patient and a slow track for Will the Minister now give the House a clear and those on the national health? simple answer to a simple question: will every London A and E remain open under this Government—yes Mr Burns: I can categorically give that assurance to or no? the hon. Gentleman, because there is no two-track system. Where the private sector may provide care, it is Mr Burns: Mr Speaker, if you had had the opportunity to help to raise standards. I imagine he would agree to read the exchange in Committee, you would understand with that, because he fought the general election on this that the hon. Lady’s question is not factually correct. manifesto commitment: She asked me figuratively what would happen in an “Patients requiring elective care will have the right…to choose urban area as compared with a rural area, and as I from any provider who meets NHS standards of quality at” explained three times during further interventions from the NHS level. her, my answer was illustrative, not definitive, because that would have been premature. She is trying to Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): Will my scaremonger—causing fear with something that she right hon. Friend tell the House how many representations knows is inherently not true. the Government have received arguing the case in favour of the PCTs in the structure that we inherited at last MRSA and Clostridium Difficile year’s general election? If, as I suspect, the answer to that question is not very many, is that not because there 4. Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): What recent was a shared commitment between this Government steps his Department has taken to reduce the incidence and the previous Government to introduce genuine of MRSA and clostridium difficile in hospitals. [44479] clinical engagement to the commissioning process? The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Mr Burns: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for Burns): This Government have made it clear that the that question. I can go a little further and say that, to NHS must adopt a zero-tolerance approach to health the best of my knowledge, we received no representations care-associated infections. We reinforced this in the to keep the PCTs. He is right when he talks about what “NHS Operating Framework 2011-12”, requiring the the previous Government were seeking to do, and we NHS to prioritise delivery of the MRSA and the new C. want commissioning to go to the local level—to GP difficile objectives. In 2009-10 C. difficile infections commissioners, who have the best knowledge of the decreased by 29% and MRSA decreased by 35% on the needs of their patients. The fact that we have so many previous year. pathfinders shows that GPs are signing up voluntarily, with enthusiasm, to take part in the scheme. Andrew Rosindell: I thank the Minister for his reply, but will he tell me specifically what action the Government Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): A consultation are taking to deal with MRSA and C. diff, particularly is under way on the reconfiguration of children’s heart in the Queen’s hospital in Romford and throughout the surgery units. Last week, a number of colleagues from Barking, Havering and Redbridge NHS Trust? Will he both sides of the House met a number of parents who assure the House that any such case will be made public are campaigning to keep the unit at Leeds general by the hospital trust and not kept quiet? infirmary. Will my right hon. Friend confirm when he will announce his preferred option and what processes Mr Burns: I can assure my hon. Friend that the will be gone through to reach that decision? performance at his trust on health care-associated infections is unacceptable. We have set demanding objectives for Mr Burns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who was reducing both those infections. In 2011-12, his trust’s present at last Thursday’s Adjournment debate. He will MRSA objective requires a reduction of 58%, one of know that the proposals, the options put together and the highest reductions in the country. Its C. difficile the consultation, which we have just begun, have been objective requires it to deliver a 24% reduction. The organised at arm’s length from Ministers by the joint consequence of non-achievement is an option to withhold committee of PCTs. As I said on Thursday, I trust that part of the contract payments, and I can categorically he will forgive me if I say that it would be totally assure my hon. Friend that there is no question of inappropriate for me to comment, because that might keeping this information or developments secret. We be seen as trying to influence or prejudge the ultimate require weekly publication of figures. outcome. Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): As the Secretary of Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): Before the election, the State knows, the north Cumbrian health economy is in Secretary of State went up and down the country promising crisis. GP commissioning is providing £30 million less that his NHS reforms would save local A and E and for acute hospital services in north Cumbria this year maternity services, but on 1 March, during consideration than it did last year. This has resulted in the trust being in Committee of the Health and Social Care Bill, when unable to seek foundation trust status, and it is seeking 759 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 760 a merger which minutes leaked to me by consultants say Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) could lead to the closure of the West Cumberland (Lab): Some Government Members have supported the hospital. Will the Secretary of State meet me as a Government’s proposals for GP consortia because they matter of urgency so that we can collectively find how believe that hospitals in their constituencies will be we can get the hospital out of that hole? Will he also protected from closure, but yesterday’s leaked letter consider a delay to foundation trust status to give the from the Foundation Trust Network to the Department hospital trust more time to get back on its feet? of Health proves them wrong. It warns that financial stress is threatening the organisational survival of some Mr Burns: I am a bit confused, Mr Speaker, as the foundation trusts. Now that they know that their hospitals question is about MRSA and C. difficile, and I did not are in danger, will the Secretary of State tell us all which hear any specific question from the hon. Gentleman on faceless bureaucrats will be closing our hospitals and that subject. what extra powers, if any, local communities will have to stop them? Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Minister of State. My sense is that the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed) Mr Lansley: That will be the leak that took place is seeking a meeting. The Minister is perfectly at liberty when the head of the Foundation Trust Network gave it to say more if he wishes, or if he does not think it is to the BBC. worth it, he does not have to do so. The hon. Lady might not be very experienced in these matters, but she will know that at this time of year, in Mr Burns: Mr Speaker, you are a wise owl to be able anticipation of the new financial year, hospitals tell to interpret what Opposition Members are thinking but their local primary care trusts how much money they may not be saying. If the hon. Gentleman has concerns would like to have, but that is not the same as the along the lines that he mentioned, I or one of my amount of money available in the whole system. That is ministerial colleagues would be more than happy to part of the contract negotiations. She should also know meet him. that the necessity to deliver efficiency savings and redesign clinical services will mean that hospitals need to deliver 4% efficiency gains year on year, right across the NHS. Mr Speaker: Wise owl is the kindest description that the hon. Gentleman has ever offered of me. I shall take it that he means it. It’s the best I’ll get. Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): It will be 6.5%.

GP Commissioning Consortia Mr Lansley: It will not be 6.5%, because things need to change so that efficiencies can be achieved within hospitals. That much is absolutely clear, and we have 5. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): What recent been clear about that. It does not threaten the future of progress he has made on the introduction of GP hospitals, but incentivises to improve the design of commissioning consortia. [44480] clinical services and improve care for patients, providing more accessible care in the right place and at the right The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): time. Last week I announced the third wave of general practice- led pathfinder consortia. I am sure my hon. Friend will Cancer Services be delighted that the Nuneaton and Bedworth pathfinder was announced as part of that. There are now 177 groups 7. Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) of GP practices covering in total 35 million people (Con): What steps his Department is taking to improve across England, piloting the future general practice-led outcomes for cancer patients. [44482] commissioning arrangements. I expect further coverage in the coming months. Pathfinders are playing an increasing role in commissioning care for patients, so more and 10. Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): What more people will benefit from clinical leadership in steps he is taking to improve NHS cancer services. planning their care. [44486]

Mr Jones: In giving GP consortia such powers, will 13. Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): What steps he is my right hon. Friend confirm that if consortia prove to taking to improve NHS cancer services. [44490] be good housekeepers in terms of both commissioning and budgets, there will be some form of reward incentive 14. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): that they can invest back into local patient care? What steps he is taking to improve NHS cancer services. [44491] Mr Lansley: Yes, I can. Consortia will be able to reinvest any savings they make from their commissioning 17. Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): What steps he is budgets for patients into improving patient care and taking to improve NHS cancer services. [44495] health outcomes for patients for whom they are responsible. We have also proposed that consortia should receive a The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul quality premium based on the outcomes achieved for Burstow): We published our cancer strategy in January, patients, similar at a consortium level to the quality and which set out a range of actions to improve cancer outcomes framework for individual practices. That will outcomes and cancer services. We set out our plans to incentivise the consortium as a whole to deliver improving improve earlier diagnosis, access to screening, treatment outcomes for patients. and patient experience of care. 761 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 762

Stephen Phillips: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for and it is proving to be an invaluable tool in enabling that answer. He and my right hon. Friend the Secretary trusts and commissioners to identify areas where there of State will be aware of the concerns expressed by a is scope for improvement locally. The cancer strategy number of GPs across the country, including in my that we published in January commits us to repeating constituency of Sleaford and North Hykeham, about such a patient experience survey, and we are exploring the pace of reform in the NHS. What assurances can he the options at the moment. give the House that GP consortia will continue to have access to the expertise they need to commission effective Steve Baker: What is the Government’s policy in cancer services? relation to those charities that provide indispensable services to cancer patients and their families? I have in Paul Burstow: I am grateful to my hon. and learned mind, in particular, Macmillan and Marie Curie. Friend for that question, because part of that pace is, of course, due to the fact that a substantial part of the Paul Burstow: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to country is now covered by pathfinder GP consortia, describe the contribution of Macmillan, other cancer many of which are actively engaging with their colleagues charities and, indeed, charities in the health sector more in cancer networks and developing the expertise and generally as indispensable. I recently had the pleasure of experience that will be essential in taking forward their visiting Macmillan’s headquarters, where I did an online commissioning responsibilities. We have already made chat with a number of cancer sufferers and their families it clear that funding will be available in the coming year and saw the helplines and other support services that it for the commissioning networks for cancer and that provides. In our cancer strategy, we are very clear that after that it will be a matter for the NHS commissioning such charities have an invaluable role to play. board. Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): Plymouth Mr Stewart Jackson: Cancer specialists at Peterborough and neighbouring Cornwall, a former objective 1 area, City hospital tell me that they are prevented from suffer from enormous deprivation. Will the Minister prescribing drugs to needy patients, even after accreditation therefore do all he can to ensure that those communities by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, benefit from Plymouth Hospitals NHS Trust’s much as a result of the necessity for further approval by their hoped-for CyberKnife technology, and that its benefits local primary care trusts. Will the Minister undertake to for cancer patients are felt not just in London, but more tackle that bureaucratic delay, as it is having a significant widely in other regions? impact on clinical outcomes in my constituency?

Paul Burstow: There are several aspects to my hon. Paul Burstow: I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for Friend’s question. One is that we need to see much more her question, and she is absolutely right: that technology commissioning for outcomes in cancer services. We is invaluable. We want to ensure that it is available to the must also ensure that full advantage is taken of the patients, and the tariff structures need to ensure that it cancer drugs fund. I would be happy to look at any is properly supported. She is right also that issues of specific details of the case he has mentioned if he cares equality in the service are key, and that is why we have to write to me. maintained this Government’s commitment to supporting the NHS constitution and its commitment to promote Jessica Lee: Does my hon. Friend agree that an equality in the system. important part of improving cancer care in this country is supporting the excellent palliative and respite care Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): What assessments wards, such as Oakwell ward in Ilkeston community has the Minister made of the work of academics, such hospital in my constituency? It would be remiss of me, as Robert Putnam, who claim that one of the biggest as the daughter of a nurse, not also to ask him to pay influences on health outcomes and recovery is social tribute to the nursing staff who work in that important cohesion within a neighbourhood, friendship groups area. and families? If the Minister has made an assessment, is he putting forward any policies that will help to expand Paul Burstow: First, I will take the opportunity to pay that area? that tribute to the excellent and hard work of clinicians in providing invaluable support to people affected by Paul Burstow: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that cancer. My hon. Friend is also right to refer to the question. Indeed, the importance of family and social importance of respite care for families. As part of the networks is a key component of the vision for social end-of-life strategy that the Government are taking care, which we set out in November. Importantly, social forward, we are looking to improve palliative care services care can support those networks through support for and inquiring into the possibility of a per-patient funding family carers. mechanism to cover the costs of these services. Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): Rehman Chishti: Given the Minister’s commitment to Queen Elizabeth hospital in my constituency provides improving patient experience, and the significant learnings excellent cancer care for the people not just of Birmingham, from the national cancer patient survey, will he ensure but of the west midlands. Following a freedom of that from now on the survey will be conducted annually? information request by UNISON, it has become clear that the hospital faces a 17%—or £22.5 million—cut in Paul Burstow: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention its funding from primary care trusts. How can the to that survey, which has produced invaluable data. Minister say that cancer care will not be compromised if More than 65,000 patients took part in the 2010 survey, we have cuts on that scale? 763 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 764

Paul Burstow: First, there has been a 3% average The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul increase in the funding that is available to PCTs, and, as Burstow): Local councils are responsible for ensuring my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in that there is sufficient residential care provision to meet answer to an earlier question, we are currently in that the needs of their populations. I understand from the process of negotiation between hospital trusts and PCTs. Care Quality Commission that the number of care It remains to be seen where the final figures will settle, home places in the north-east has risen substantially but the money is in the system: the Government are and steadily in recent years. committed to putting £10.7 billion extra in the system— something that the Labour party actually opposed. Chi Onwurah: A recent report from Bupa predicts a shortfall of 100,000 in the provision of care home beds Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): As someone whose nationally because of the cuts and because of our mother died of cancer, no one needs to tell me how ageing population. That will obviously impact on hospital important cancer is within the NHS, but it is noticeable beds. How will the Minister prevent that from impacting that nine out of 13 questions asked by Conservative on health care in the north-east if he is not going to Members are about cancer; it seems to be the only part ring-fence the social care budget? of the NHS which the Government are happy to talk about. But cancer cannot be taken in isolation from the Paul Burstow: First, let me re-emphasise that we rest of the NHS, when there is a massive reorganisation know, on the basis of independent assessments that costing billions of pounds which only one in four GPs have been carried out, that across England there is a thinks will actually improve the service. How can that surplus of 50,000 care home places. As regards the possibly involve doing the best for cancer patients? provision of care home places and the funding of social care, we have committed to an extra £2 billion going Paul Burstow: Again, I suspect that the hon. Gentleman into the system by 2014, half through local government is trying to re-run the Second Reading of, in this case, and half directly via the NHS, to ensure that social care the Health and Social Care Bill, but in fact this Government services receive support; and just this year, an extra are committed to seeing improvements across the board. £162 million will go to local authorities to support them That is why in the NHS outcomes framework we do not in their social care activities. just talk about cancer, we identify other areas as well. If hon. Members table the questions, I am certainly happy Mixed-sex Accommodation to answer them. 12. Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con): What Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): The Secretary of State progress he is making in reducing mixed-sex is fond of making unfavourable comparisons between accommodation in the NHS. [44489] European and UK health outcomes, but recent research shows that we are doing much better than the picture he The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health portrays. Independent research has borne that out. Concerns (Anne Milton): Mixed-sex accommodation breaches have also been raised about the impact of his NHS patients’ privacy and decency. The number of breaches reorganisation on cancer networks. Sarah Woolnough is now coming down, but there are still far too many. of Cancer Research UK says: That is why, from April, hospitals will be fined £250 for “One of our concerns is to ensure that we do not lose the every breach of mixed-sex accommodation. That money expertise that we have been developing.”––[Official Report, Health and Social Care Public Bill Committee, 10 February 2011; c. 116, will be reinvested back into patient care. Q227.] Under this Government, however, patients are already Lorraine Fullbrook: I welcome the Government’s move waiting longer than six weeks for diagnostic tests, many to increase accountability to patients by publishing all of which are for cancer. In fact, the numbers have occurrences of a patient being placed in mixed-sex doubled, and that is according to the Department’s own accommodation. Does my hon. Friend agree that this figures. Can I ask the Minister why? move, with the prospect of hospitals being fined £250 per patient placed in mixed-sex accommodation, shows that Paul Burstow: On the hon. Gentleman’s last point, this Government are tackling a problem that the previous the first thing to say is that average waiting times have Government claimed was impossible to solve? gone down, but beyond that, he is right to identify the need to achieve earlier diagnosis. That is one of the Anne Milton: We are taking this extremely seriously. I reasons performance in this country on cancer survival should point out to my hon. Friend that there should be has not been as good in comparison with other European no exceptions to providing high-quality care, which countries. That is why, in the outcomes strategy that we includes high standards of respect for people’s privacy published in January, we made it clear that we would and dignity. We need robust information and the monthly put in an extra £450 million over the next four years to publication of the breach figures, which will tell the fund the additional diagnostic procedures directly available public what is going on and allow the NHS to make to GPs so that they can make those tests available to progress. The previous Government dragged their feet their patients. on this issue with a complex system that was neither transparent nor effective. Care Home Beds (North-east) Tuberculosis 8. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the 15. Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) number of care home beds available in the north-east (Lab): What steps he plans to take to reduce the over the comprehensive spending review period. [44484] incidence of tuberculosis. [44493] 765 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 766

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health Alex Cunningham: At present, GPs are able to spend (Anne Milton): We expect NHS organisations and their only about eight or nine minutes on average with each partners to ensure early detection, treatment completion patient. How can the Secretary of State expect GPs to and co-ordinated action to prevent and control TB. The be meaningfully engaged in commissioning when, unlike Department and the National Institute for Health and him, they are putting patients first? Clinical Excellence have published supporting guidance. We are also continuing to support the charity TB Alert Mr Burns: Unlike the hon. Gentleman, my right hon. to raise public and professional awareness of TB. Friend the Secretary of State actually understands the situation. It is not true that doctors see patients for only Michael Connarty: I think the House should be concerned eight minutes; GPs see their patients for the length of that in an excellent presentation back in September, it time that they feel they should see them. The concept was explained that only 61% of people in London that GPs will have their time taken away from looking complete treatment for tuberculosis, that the incidence after patients to do commissioning is not right, because of tuberculosis in the UK is behind only the levels in GPs will employ commissioners with expertise to work Spain and Portugal, and that there were over 400,000 with them and do the commissioning for them, so that cases in the European Union in 2009. The London they can get on with looking after their patients. report that came out said that we had to invest in the service to provide a TB board for London and probably Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): With regard to the spread that to other big cities where most of the people admin load of GPs, the Government correctly want to who have TB were not born in the UK. have better integration of health and social care. Why, therefore, are they creating GP consortia that are less Anne Milton: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. coterminous with local authority boundaries than the The World Health Organisation threshold for high instance existing primary care trusts? How will that help to is defined as 40 cases per 100,000. Of the 19 relevant deliver a better integrated health and social care system? primary care trusts in this country, 16 are in London. There is no doubt that this is a complex problem. In Mr Burns: I hope that I can reassure my hon. Friend the past two decades, the increase in instances has in so far as that is not automatically or necessarily the come from people who were not born in this country. case. The geographical area of a consortium will be We are doing a number of things. The Home Office determined by what is most appropriate in the local is reviewing the effectiveness of screening, and is area. running a pilot of pre-entry TB screening in areas of countries where there is a high instance. The problem is John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): When, oh when, will that it is not always detectable when people enter this the Minister listen to the country, get his sticky mitts off country. the health service and stop meddling with our hospitals and doctors? Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): Tuberculosis is a key health issue for those in the Mr Burns: We are not meddling; we are modernising London borough of Hounslow. What more does my the NHS to put quality at the heart of care, and to hon. Friend feel we can do to build public awareness enhance and improve outcomes, which is the most and to ensure early diagnosis? important thing for patients.

Anne Milton: My hon. Friend is right. NHS London Cancer Strategy will continue to fund the TB find-and-treat outreach programme for the homeless and other vulnerable groups, which includes the use of mobile X-ray units. The 18. Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con): What Department will continue to provide money to support assessment he has made of the effect on survival rates TB Alert, which builds capacity in the voluntary sector of his Department’s cancer strategy. [44496] and raises awareness. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul GP Commissioning Consortia Burstow): We published “Improving Outcomes: A Strategy for Cancer” on 12 January. It sets out a range of actions to improve cancer outcomes, including diagnosing cancer 16. Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): What earlier, helping people to live healthier lives to reduce estimate he has made of the average amount of time preventable cancers, screening more people, introducing per week GPs will allocate to the administration of new screening programmes, and ensuring that all patients commissioning consortia under his proposals for NHS have access to the best possible treatment, care and reform. [44494] support. Through those approaches, we aim to save at least an additional 5,000 lives every year by 2014-15. We The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon will publish annual reports to measure progress on Burns): We anticipate that GPs will focus on the aspects implementation of the strategy. of commissioning that will benefit most from their clinical expertise and understanding of patients’ needs. Greg Hands: Does my hon. Friend agree that the Only a minority of clinicians will play a hands-on, establishment of the cancer drugs fund will help the UK executive role in consortia. Moreover, they will be able to raise its cancer survival rate from among the to secure support services to assist with their administrative worst in Europe to potentially one of the very best? and commissioning duties. [Interruption.] 767 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 768

Paul Burstow: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to budget. Next year, primary care trusts across England draw attention to that, and it is interesting that a will receive an average increase of 3% in cash. I went to number of Opposition Members are saying that they do Wales at the weekend, to Cardiff. The people of Wales not see it as making any contribution whatever to the are seeing a Labour-led Assembly Government cutting quality and extension of life. Yes, the funds that the their NHS budget in real terms. That was what the Government provided very early on will be available to Opposition recommended we should do, and we are not ensure that people get access to drugs that have hitherto doing it. not been available to them. Secondly, the number of hip and knee replacement operations went up in 2010 compared with 2009—the Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): The Minister Patients Association figures were wrong about that. has indicated several times that diagnosing cancer earlier Thirdly, waiting times are stable, as we have set out, and is the solution to the difficulties that we face. What is he the latest figures show that the average waiting time for going to do to bring that about? diagnostic tests has gone down.

Paul Burstow: Just a few weeks ago we started a pilot John Healey: The Secretary of State is a man in of a national advertising campaign on bowel cancer, denial. What does he say to the chief executive of the with the key message being that people should never Patients Association, who has said: feel embarrassed about talking about their poos, so that “It is a disgrace that patients are being denied access to surgical they get the diagnosis that they need at the earliest procedures that they would have had if they had needed them a opportunity. We are ensuring that such messages get year ago”? across, even in the Chamber today. We are taking steps What the Government are doing on the NHS is making to raise awareness so that people get earlier diagnoses. things worse, not better. The Secretary of State is axing Labour’s patient guarantee on waiting times, he is breaking Topical Questions the promise of a real rise in NHS funding, he is wasting £2 billion on the Government’s top-down reorganisation T1. [44501] Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): If and he is forcing market competition into all parts of he will make a statement on his departmental the NHS. Does he not see that the NHS is rapidly responsibilities. becoming the Prime Minister’s biggest broken promise?

The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): Mr Lansley: I can tell the right hon. Gentleman and My responsibility is to lead the NHS in delivering the House exactly what we are doing. We are increasing improved health outcomes in England, to lead a public the budget for the NHS by £10.7 billion over the next health service that improves the health of the nation four years, contrary to what the Opposition told us they and reduces health inequalities and to lead the reform would do and what a Labour-led Assembly Government of adult social care, which supports and protects vulnerable in Wales are doing. They are cutting the NHS budget in people. real terms. Let me take one example. The number of hip operations Stephen Mosley: Prostate cancer is the most common in the first half of this financial year was 41,863, form of cancer in men, with a quarter of a million men whereas in the previous period it was 39,114, and waiting currently affected and one man dying every hour. This times are stable, so the right hon. Gentleman’s assertion month is prostate cancer awareness month. What action simply is not true. We are delivering an improving is my right hon. Friend taking to help raise awareness of quality of care. prostate cancer? Let me give the right hon. Gentleman another example. Mr Lansley: As the Minister of State, my hon. Friend As the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), has Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), said, not only are set out in previous answers, our cancer outcome strategy waiting times stable but infections are going down, with commits more than £450 million a year over the spending a reduction of 29% in C. diff rates and 35% in MRSA review period to achieving earlier diagnosis of cancer, rates in our hospitals. Safer, higher-quality care— including access for GPs in the community to diagnostic tests such as non-obstetric ultrasound. At the heart of Mr Speaker: Order. I am very grateful, but from now the strategy is the need to improve awareness and early on we do need briefer answers—[Interruption.] No, we diagnosis of all cancers, and we are working with the need briefer answers, because I want to accommodate prostate cancer advisory group to help men who do not Back-Bench Members. It is about them that I am concerned. have symptoms to make decisions about whether to have a prostate-specific antigen test. T2. [44502] Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I believe that the introduction of plain packaging for cigarettes would John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): The be gesture politics of the worst kind, that it would have Prime Minister promised to protect the NHS. What no basis in evidence and that it would simply be a does the Health Secretary say to the people who are not triumph for the nanny state—and an absurd one at that. getting the hip, knee and cataract operations that they Given that, does the Secretary of State believe that I am need, and to the patients who are now having to wait still a Conservative, and if so, is he? longer for tests and treatment? Mr Lansley: I am happy to believe that we are both Mr Lansley: I will say three things. First, we did Conservatives. The coalition Government made a protect the NHS, contrary to the recommendations of commitment in our public health White Paper to publishing the Opposition, who said that we should cut the NHS a tobacco control plan. We will do so shortly, and the 769 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 770 purpose will be very clear: to secure a further reduction T5. [44505] Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): A new primary in the number of people smoking, and as a consequence, care hospital opened in Redcar at the end of 2009. So a reduction in avoidable deaths and disease. far, the endoscopy unit and the two operating theatres are completely unused, and a state-of-the-art hydrotherapy T4. [44504] Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) pool has hardly been used. Will the Minister meet me to (Lab): What assessment has the Secretary of State made discuss that commissioning failure and to see how we of epilepsy helplines in helping to save NHS costs? I can bring those facilities into use for the local community? have constituents who are able to live happy and fulfilled lives by talking with epilepsy specialist nurses on the Mr Burns: I understand that the PCT will continue to phone rather than going into hospital, but unfortunately, work with health care providers to develop existing and it seems as if that service is under threat from the future services at Redcar primary care hospital, and to University hospital of North Staffordshire. What is promote the availability of services, but I would be Government policy, and will he look at the situation in more than delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman to north Staffordshire? discuss that issue.

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul T7. [44507] Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Burstow): The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say Every 23 minutes, someone in the UK is diagnosed that telephone services of the sort he describes play an with a blood cancer disorder—that is 23,600 people per invaluable role in giving people support. Again, we are year, including many children. Survival often depends at that point in the year when there are budget arguments on a donor match. Today until 6 pm, the Anthony between PCTs and hospitals, to which he refers. If he Nolan trust has a stand in Portcullis House, where supplies me with further details on this case, I will people can get more information, and where those happily write to him. under 40 can register. Will the Minister join me in promoting the donor register and in encouraging MPs and staff to visit the stand? T3. [44503] Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): The Secretary of State has visited Milton Keynes, Paul Burstow: I think that more than one of us so he will be well aware of the historical problems at the wanted to do just that, because the Anthony Nolan maternity unit there and, following the intervention of trust does a fantastic job. The hon. Gentleman is right his Department, of the positive outcomes that have to raise awareness of it, and all hon. Members should been achieved with one-to-one supervision for all mothers. take the opportunity to visit its stand today. I am convinced that the increased training of midwives has contributed to those outcomes, but may I press him to reassure the House that that level of training will T8. [44508] Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Witham town continue? council and my constituents are deeply concerned about the lack of local medical facilities serving our town. Will the Secretary of State reassure my constituents Mr Lansley: Yes, I am very grateful to my hon. Friend that under the new commissioning arrangements medical and I share his wish for continuing improvement in the provision in our town will be able to expand? maternity services at Milton Keynes hospital. I can tell him and the House that we are delivering on our Mr Lansley: I can give my hon. Friend the reassurance commitment to improve maternity services, which is at that in future her local general practices—together in a the heart of that wish. The number of midwifery training commissioning consortium—and their other health care places commissioned for next year—2011-12—will be professionals, meeting with the health and wellbeing no less than this year, sustaining a record number of board in the local authority, will be able to bring midwives in training. That will be on top of an increase democratic accountability in order to ensure that they between May and November 2010—after the coalition have in her town and surrounding area the necessary Government came in—of 296 additional midwives services, based on a strategic assessment of need in their employed in the NHS. area.

T6. [44506] John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): T9. [44509] Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): Following on from the question asked by my right hon. The NHS in north-west London is facing a £1 billion Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John shortfall in funding over the spending period. Is the Healey) on the £2 billion that the Secretary of State is Secretary of State surprised, therefore, that yesterday’s using for his for his top-down reorganisation, does the NHS Confederation survey of managers found that Minister feel that that kind of money, which was not just 13% of managers thought that supporting GP mentioned in the Conservative manifesto, would be commissioning was the highest priority, compared with better spent on health care and on building new 63%, who thought that the cash crisis was the highest hospitals? priority? Is it not the case that financial pressures are dictating the NHS reform agenda, rather than the other The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon way around? Burns): May I tell the hon. Gentleman that his figures are wrong? The cost of the modernisation of the NHS Mr Lansley: I remind the hon. Lady again that next is £1.4 billion by 2012-13. That will be recouped in year we are increasing NHS resources in real terms. savings that by the end of this Parliament will be There will be a 3% increase across England in resources £1.7 billion a year, every year till the end of the decade, for primary care trusts, and as she will know, PCT of which every single penny will be reinvested in front-line managers in London are being brought together into services and for patients. PCT groupings. I do not understand the survey. They 771 Oral Answers8 MARCH 2011 Oral Answers 772 have a responsibility both to improve clinical commissioning lot of trouble if the Secretary of State admitted, not by supporting their GP groups, which are coming together least to the Prime Minister, that it is not the public across London to do this, and to ensure strong financial relations that is the problem, but the policy? control. Mr Lansley: The right hon. Gentleman should not Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): How can believe what he reads in the newspapers. the Secretary of State ensure that HIV and sexual health services receive sufficient local political attention? David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): The cancer drugs fund is available only for pharmaceutical drugs, but can Mr Lansley: Local attention, through the public health it be used for wider support services, such as healers, responsibilities that currently lie with PCTs, but which aromatherapists, those using therapeutic touch and other in future will lie with local authorities, is a means by such practitioners? which we can improve health and the health of some of the groups most at risk of HIV. We have a number of Mr Lansley: We are finalising the design of the future pilot schemes that my hon. Friend might know about cancer drugs fund from April, and we will publish and that we are currently assessing, which have looked shortly. The interim cancer drugs fund is designed to at opportunistic HIV screening for the many people who support new effective medicines, based on clinical panels’ are currently undiagnosed with HIV.That is encouraging, assessments of the needs of individual patients. and we might well be able to follow up on it. Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): Today is T10. [44510] Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Given international women’s day, so let me pass on the good that the chief medical officer does not have a background wishes of the women of Darlington to the Secretary of in public health, and despite the existence of Public State. Health England, should the Secretary of State not ensure that there is a public health expert on the national Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): All of them. commissioning board, because that is where all the power lies? Mrs Chapman: Indeed. However, what does the Secretary Mr Lansley: I am surprised, because the hon. Lady is of State have to say to those women when they are on the Select Committee on Health and should know angry and concerned at the proposal from the County that responsibility for public health will lie both with Durham and Darlington foundation trust to move their Public Health England, inside the Department of Health, maternity services from Darlington to Durham, 20 miles and with local authorities. The NHS commissioning away? board will have a responsibility for prevention, but the population health responsibility will lie with Public Mr Lansley: I would be grateful if the hon. Lady Health England, and I have absolute confidence that conveyed my very best wishes to the women of Darlington Dame Sally Davies, the newly appointed chief medical on international women’s day and said to them that I officer, will be a leader in public health delivery, through know from my visits to the north-east that a general Public Health England. practice-led commissioning pathfinder consortium has come together in their area. It is with that consortium Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): I represent a constituency and their local authority that they should look at which with a young and highly mobile population. Younger services they think should be provided in their area, and women are very much over-represented among those they will have the power to make that happen. who do not respond to routine invitations to screenings. Will Ministers promote the increasing use of mobile Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What plans does my communications in inviting women to routine screening right hon. Friend have to increase the number of single services? rooms in the NHS? Increasing their number will help to tackle mixed-sex accommodation, and increase privacy Paul Burstow: That is certainly one way in which we and dignity in end-of-life care. can improve access, and it is one of many that we outlined in the improving cancer outcomes strategy that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health we published in January. (Anne Milton): I thank my hon. Friend for that question. As was said earlier, privacy and dignity are central to all Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Given that the the care that we provide in the health service. Mixed-sex Prime Minister has ordered his new communications accommodation was not tackled by the previous director to order a shake-up of the health team because Government; we are determined to tackle it now, and he is worried that they are losing the argument on the providing single rooms is part of that. Privacy and Government’s health upheaval, would it not save us all a dignity must be maintained at all times. 773 Oral Answers 8 MARCH 2011 774

NEW MEMBER Points of Order The following Member made and subscribed the Affirmation required by law: 3.33 pm Daniel Owen Woolgar Jarvis, for Barnsley Central. Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Today the Government have published their draft carbon plan, which we all welcome. There is a commitment in the plan to reviewing feed-in tariffs for microgeneration in 2012-13, as originally set out by the previous Government. However, in just the past few weeks the Government have announced that a fast-track review of those solar feed-in tariffs is to take place by this July. Thousands of jobs in this country are dependent on the certainty and clarity of knowing what will happen with the feed-in tariff review and when it will happen. Today’s document is co-signed not only by the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, but by the deputy leader of the coalition and the Prime Minister himself. Have you had a request, Mr Speaker, for any Government spokesman or the Prime Minister to come and clarify whether the review will take place now or in 2012-13, so that we can end the uncertainty that is jeopardising thousands upon thousands of jobs? Mr Speaker: The short answer to the question is that sadly I have not. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of his intention to raise this matter; however, it does not constitute a point of order on which I can rule. There will be—and I think he knows there will be—other opportunities to pursue the matter in other ways, and I have a suspicion that he will use them. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, I asked the Foreign Secretary to investigate the circumstances in which my constituent, Jennifer Currie, and her children had left Libya, and the fact that my caseworker had had to make many of the arrangements for them to do so. The Foreign Secretary stated that the Government did not accept my description of the lack of support received from the Foreign Office. The family has confirmed to me today that the Foreign Office initially declined to help Jennifer and her children, and then told the family to book and pay for their flights. Mr Speaker, what advice can you give to my constituent and me to enable us to ensure that the Foreign Secretary justifies his claim about what happened in Libya, given the different versions of events and the real danger that she and her children faced? Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of his intention to raise this matter. Naturally, I recall the exchange that took place in the Chamber between him and the Minister yesterday. What he has said today will have been heard, or will be heard, by those on the Treasury Bench and by the Ministers directly responsible for this matter, but it is not a matter upon which I can rule. There is an argument here, and the hon. Gentleman has put his view of the events, and his verdict on the sequence of events, very clearly on the record. He can approach the Table Office and pursue the matter through questioning, if he wishes, or he can write to the Minister further to pursue the matter on behalf of his constituents, if he chooses. Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to apologise for misleading the House yesterday, make a 775 Oral Answers 8 MARCH 2011 776

[Mr Ian Davidson] Charitable Healthcare Providers (Value Added Tax Relief) correction and clarify a position. During our debate on the Scotland Bill yesterday, I outlined the importance of Motion for leave to introduce a Bill (Standing Order having overnight counting, as many of us were exceedingly No. 23) excited as we watched the result of the Barnsley by-election come in on Friday morning and found that the Liberals 3.38 pm had not retained second place. We learned that they had Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I beg to move, not come third or fourth, and that they had in fact come That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for charitable sixth. My error was to say that the only reason the healthcare providers taking on new responsibilities from the Liberals had come sixth was that the Scottish nationalists National Health Service to be able to recover value added tax on had not stood, and that, had they done so, the Liberals the same non-business supplies as the NHS in respect of those responsibilities; and for connected purposes. would have come seventh. In fact, my error was in not correctly pointing out that, had the Welsh nationalists I am delighted to have secured strong cross-party or indeed the Democratic Unionist party stood, the support for this Bill. This demonstrates how important Liberals might very well have come ninth. I was going the issue is, and how serious the House is about the to make the same point about the Social Democratic crucial role that charities play, alongside the public and and Labour party, but that would be taking it too far. private sectors, in our society. Estimates suggest that the total spend by primary care trusts on outsourcing to Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, to third-party service providers is approximately £80 billion whom I always listen with interest and respect. However, per annum. A significant proportion of those services I have to say that that effort, though a nice try, was some will be delivered by the charity sector, and that proportion hundreds of miles away from being a point of order. I will increase in the coming years as the big society and think that we will leave it there. public service reform agendas increase. Health care charities such as hospices have a strong history of building relations with local communities and the Government in order to provide care for people who are nearing the end of their lives. This applies to independent hospices and larger hospice providers such as Marie Curie Cancer Care and Sue Ryder Care. At this point, I must commend the work of Lindsey Lodge, the independent hospice that serves local people in the Scunthorpe constituency, which I am proud to represent. It provides a wide range of services for people living with life-limiting conditions such as cancer, multiple sclerosis and motor neurone disease. More than 300 volunteers from the local community donate their time and skills to support the work of the hospice and many more make voluntary financial contributions. It will cost Lindsey Lodge hospice almost £2 million to provide its services this year. Two thirds will come directly from the local community through fundraising, legacies and donations. This funding picture is typical of the majority of hospices, with varying proportions of voluntary funds required. Charities such as the Lindsey Lodge hospice do not operate within a vacuum, but within their community context in partnership with local government, health and other agencies. Those partnerships are what create the climate for success. On average, adult charitable hospices receive 32% in statutory funding and they provide 80% of palliative in-patient beds in the UK. The passage of this Bill would show that the Government are serious about recognising the importance of such charitable services. In a recent written question, the hon. Member for Keighley (Kris Hopkins) drew attention to the fact that, unlike the NHS or his local council, Manorlands, the Sue Ryder hospice in his constituency, cannot reclaim the VAT it has paid on non-business supplies. He rightly called on the Prime Minister to create a level playing field for health care charities. Under current legislation, the NHS is able to recover value added tax on non-business supplies, yet the charity sector is not. In the rhetoric of the big society, the Government appear optimistic, encouraging the voluntary and community sector to take a larger role in society through the delivery of public services. This offers opportunity 777 Charitable Healthcare Providers 8 MARCH 2011 Charitable Healthcare Providers 778 (Value Added Tax Relief) (Value Added Tax Relief) for new types of service delivery, building on the best forward and level the future playing field. The proposals that already exists, but we must not expect charitable in the Bill will not cost the Government any more than agencies to do this for free or effectively to subsidise the the costs that are currently in the system. If the Government Government from charitable donations. Figures produced are serious about this aspect of big society thinking, by Sue Ryder Care suggest that for every £10 million they should welcome these proposals, supported as they spent by the NHS on outsourcing to the third sector, are by Members in all parts of the House. Transfers of the additional cost burden will be in the region of services to the charitable sector should not bring a tax £400,000. That burden will need to be absorbed by dividend to the Treasury, but should bring an innovation the charity. and investment dividend to patients and their local I am sure all hon. Members will join me in applauding communities. the contribution charities make to their communities. The Government should stop the problem from Under current rules, if services are transferred from the worsening by allowing charities to which services are NHS to charities, their VAT bills will increase. This transferred in future to recover the same VAT on non- provides a VAT dividend to the Treasury from charities business supplies as the NHS. The proposals in the Bill at the point of transfer, which is surely not fair. are fiscally neutral. On Shrove Tuesday of all days, they Currently, when services are transferred from the represent an opportunity for the Government to give NHS into the charitable sector, allowances for irrecoverable something up for the wider good and not just for Lent. VAT are not made in the contract. This finds the charity In his Daily Telegraph article on 20 February, the Prime in the perverse situation of having to cover VAT costs Minister said that the Government with charitable donations. Any efficiency savings finance “will still have a crucial role to play” the VAT gap first before benefiting patients and their in “ensuring fair funding”. local community. A recent example can be seen in the transfer of services from an NHS hospice to the charity, I am therefore sure that he will want to examine this Sue Ryder, in West Berkshire. Services are due to begin funding anomaly. transferring to the charity on 1 April. The way in which the Government should address the The transfer will result in streamlined palliative and anomaly is to amend section 41 of the Value Added Tax end-of-life care services for all those living in the area. Act 1994 to put charities and the NHS on a level The hospice will work alongside Sue Ryder’s existing playing field, or to consider a form of compensation hospice to provide integrated services. Figures produced scheme for those taking on NHS services. That would for Sue Ryder show that the transfer will add 4% to the create a level playing field in VAT between charities and cost of delivering the services as a result of the different the NHS. As things stand, the Treasury is set to make VAT recovery for the NHS and charities. money from charities that choose to take on public services. Sue Ryder has called that Sue Ryder projects efficiency savings of £0.3 million in the first year, yet these efficiencies will not all be “an unintended consequence of the ‘big society’ and public service reform agendas”. invested in improvements in service delivery. Half the savings will be swallowed up by the Treasury as a result At present, I am inclined to agree. It is effectively a tax of the new VAT burden placed on the charity, which did on the transfer of services from the NHS to the charitable not apply to the NHS as a provider. If efficiency savings sector. I urge the Government to address this inconsistency are not realised, charitable funds will need to be used to and thereby avoid the risk that charities and the public plug the gap. will start to view it more cynically. As the economy stagnates or contracts and consumer Question put and agreed to. confidence falls, there is a very real danger that charities Ordered, will be hit by decreasing donations and cuts in local That Nic Dakin, Stuart Andrew, Mr Kevin Barron, government and national Government grants. Now is Chris Evans, Julie Hilling, Kris Hopkins, Martin Horwood, not the time to punish those forward-thinking charities Greg Mulholland, Paul Murphy, Andrew Percy, Bob that are willing to expand their services into new, innovative Russell and Jim Shannon present the Bill. areas, formerly delivered by the NHS. It is, of course, unrealistic to ask the Treasury to Nick Dakin accordingly presented the Bill. write a blank cheque and allow all charities providing Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on NHS services to recover VAT, but it is realistic to look Friday 17 June and to be printed (Bill 159). 779 8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 780

European Union Bill led to the drafting of the constitutional treaty which later became the Lisbon treaty, they had opposed a [Relevant documents: Tenth Report from the European number of key proposals. Scrutiny Committee, The EU Bill and Parliamentary sovereignty, HC 633, and the Government response, First Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Is my hon. Friend Special Report, HC 723; Fifteenth Report from the European also conscious of the fact that the Conservative party Scrutiny Committee, The EU Bill: Restrictions on Treaties was, for the first time since 1972, united on that issue, and Decisions relating to the EU, HC 682, and the and that it voted consistently against every provision Government response, Second Special Report, HC 852.] that was worth voting against in the Lisbon treaty, yet Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Committee subsequently accepted it?

Mr Speaker: I had intended to call the hon. Member Mr Clappison: Yes—and not only that, because my for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) to move the hon. Friend is being characteristically modest, as some new clause, but it can be moved by another of its of the warnings about the consequences that would supporters. I call Mr James Clappison. flow from the treaty of Lisbon have proved right in the short time that has elapsed since its introduction. I am thinking in particular of the warnings that were given New Clause 1 about what I regard as the unfortunate influence of the European External Action Service and the EU’s new Foreign Minister, Baroness Ashton, which has not entirely PROVISION OF DOCUMENTATION UNDER PART 1 served the interests of this country. ‘(1) A statement laid before Parliament under section 5 of this Act shall be accompanied with all relevant documentation on the Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): The new treaty or decision concerned, including all amendments sponsored clause is excellent. I like the idea that Ministers would by Ministers and other member states during negotiation of the have to report that they tried to get an improvement but treaty or decision. they lost. Is it also proposed that some of the arguments (2) All decisions which as a result of any of sections 6 to 10 of should be made available, because it would be much this Act require approval by referendum or Act or resolution more interesting if we knew how badly they had lost? shall be accompanied with all relevant documentation on the decision concerned, including all amendments sponsored by Mr Clappison: My right hon. Friend makes an excellent Ministers and other member states during negotiation of the point. Too often decisions are made behind closed decision.’.—(Mr Clappison.) doors, certainly in the Council. They are made in a Brought up, and read the First time. remote and unaccountable way, and members of the public in this country simply do not have the information 3.48 pm that they should have to be able to evaluate the decisions taken in their name. Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): I beg to During our debates on the Lisbon treaty, it was move, That the clause be read a Second time. As another striking that time after time we had to remind members Member who willingly put his name to the new clause, I of the then Government of what they had said in the am delighted to do so. Convention about the measures that they were now Members who are familiar with the Second Reading putting before the House. I cannot remember whether debate and the proceedings in Committee will know they had opposed the establishment of the EU External that clause 5 is about a statement that must be laid Action Service and the EU Foreign Minister—I would before the House within two months of the conclusion not have blamed them if they had—but it emerged on a of any of the treaty changes covered by the Bill, as part number of occasions in the debates in the House that of the process whereby a referendum takes place. It Ministers had previously opposed what they were now covers treaty changes in both the ordinary revision proposing. That came to light only through the assiduous procedure—the one with which we are all familiar, work of the then Conservative Front-Bench Members, involving a convention followed by the full panoply of and I pay tribute to them, as well as to colleagues such treaty change and agreement between the nations—and as my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) the simplified revision procedure that was introduced and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham by article 48(6) of the treaty of Lisbon, which makes it (Mr Redwood). much easier for the parties to the European Union to The new clause would remedy this problem, as the bring about treaty change. Under that article, all they fullest possible information would be placed before the need to do is reach an agreement within the Council House, with the statement, so we would know exactly and then put it to the member states, and unanimity is what had taken place, and whether the Government required for that. It is generally regarded as a measure really agreed with what was being proposed or whether that speeds up treaty change. they had lost the arguments and been outvoted. In New clause 1 would require much more information short, we would know whether we were being called to be included in the statement, or to be provided with upon to do something with which our democratically it. When my friend the hon. Member for Birmingham, elected Government did not agree. Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) drafted the new clause, she may well have had in mind what took place during this Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD) rose— House’s proceedings on the treaty of Lisbon, and I certainly had that in mind when I signed it. The then Mr Clappison: I give way to the Liberal Democrat Government advocated all the measures in the treaty of Member who, of course, supported the Lisbon treaty Lisbon to the House—and to the country—but it was on many occasions during its passage through this revealed during the debate that at the Convention that House. 781 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 782

Martin Horwood: Absolutely—and a referendum on it. Friend says is absolutely right: a tradition of deceit lies The hon. Gentleman is speaking as if the new clause behind all this, and it goes right across the whole of related to the situation after the negotiations have been Europe. completed, but what it actually says is Mr Clappison: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, “during negotiation of the treaty or decision.” because he has done the House a service. It was entirely I attended a negotiating skills course some years ago, due to him that the contents of the Van Rompuy report, and I was always advised not to give away my negotiating as they affected this country, which they clearly did, position during the course of the negotiation. Would were revealed to this House. We look forward to having not the new clause destroy the British Government’s a fuller debate on those in due course. We want a fuller negotiating position? Is that its intention? debate on many other issues, but when a treaty change Mr Clappison: No, because the British Government comes before this House and is the subject of a statement are representing the British people and the British people under clause 5 we need to have all the information. We should know what is being negotiated on their behalf. need to have everything out in the open so that we can This is not a private company trying to make a profit; it have a full and well-informed debate. is democratically elected Ministers acting on behalf of Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): the people. May I slightly correct the hon. Gentleman? I By way of explanation, Mr Speaker, I think I have fallen do not know whether he was in the House at the time, victim to my usual habit of reading newspapers from but I certainly recall this, because I was sitting directly back to front. I apologise for not having been here at the behind the Liberal Democrats. That party supported an start of the debate, and I thank the hon. Member for in/out referendum on the European Union, but it did Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) for introducing the new not support a referendum on the Lisbon treaty itself. I clause. remember that debate taking place. He will correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that although the Liberal I need to explain the antecedents of the thinking Democrats got very agitated about having an in/out behind the new clause. When I was a Minister I attended referendum, they were not exactly full-hearted in supporting meetings of the Council of Ministers, and I knew that it a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. was perfectly impossible for any national Parliament to find out even whether their Minister was there to vote, Martin Horwood rose— let alone whether they had made any particular representations. I am sure that I am not the only Minister— Mr Clappison: I will give way again to the hon. people on both sides of the House must have done Gentleman, who has a very honourable record of this—who performed the most amazing U-turns on supporting further European integration. policy when doing a Council of Ministers stint. I am talking about little notes along the lines of, “The United Martin Horwood: I will correct the hon. Gentleman, Kingdom no longer supports amendment 58”—and as he is wrong. I voted for both an in/out referendum that was all that was ever said about the matter. There is and a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. nothing wrong with that; we do that in politics. But in this House, if the Government perform a U-turn, someone Mr Clappison: I stand corrected. I do not know at some stage has to stand at that Dispatch Box and say, whether the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues voted both for “We’ve changed our minds.” They have to give reasons and against an in/out referendum, or whether they for doing so, and on occasions those are perfectly voted both for and against having a referendum on the acceptable. This is the one thing that is completely Lisbon treaty. I do remember, because it would be hard missing in our dealings with the European Union. to forget this, that one of his colleagues was excluded from the Chamber because he got into such a terrible Post-Lisbon, we have made some advances in the temper about not being able to have an in/out referendum. information provided for the European Parliament. I am not sure how many of his colleagues supported the Although I welcome those provisions, I would challenge amendment that we dealt with several evenings ago even hon. Members to close their eyes and tell me, hand proposing an in/out referendum; the Hansard record on heart, that they can name all the MEPs who represent will doubtless show the number. their region. I bet that they could not do that; I could The fullest possible information should be available not name them all myself. [Interruption.] My right hon. to this House and to the British people so that we know Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) what is really going on. One of the fundamental problems says that he does not even know all the MPs for of the European Union is the feeling of disillusionment Birmingham. Fortunately, I could tell him all their that people have about its lack of accountability. We do names, even in alphabetical order. not know what is taking place and being done in our name. The EU is remote and decisions are taken behind 4pm closed doors. Some arrangements are entered into Greater accountability comes from information being beforehand in an entirely private way, with decisions available. If a national Parliament, for whatever reason, not even being taken at the meetings themselves, but chooses not to follow that up, it is perfectly entitled to often being taken behind closed doors. We need more make that decision. In the limited confines of the Bill, information about such matters. new clause 1 is an attempt to ensure that all the documentation made available to Ministers is also made Mr Cash: Even as we speak, a gigantic deal is being available to the House. done in Europe. It is called the “competitiveness package”. It took me an urgent question—thanks to you, Mr Redwood: The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I can Mr Speaker—to elicit the truth about what was going remember visiting EU Councils as a Minister and on in European economic governance. What my hon. discovering that the Council of Ministers often met as a 783 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 784

[Mr John Redwood] Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): We are having an important debate, and the first thing to do is find our legislature. It was about to enact extremely important national interest in the context of that debate. Otherwise, laws affecting all our countries, and all that the others we will head into treacherous waters. For me, the national and I said was entirely secret and did not have to be interest is to ensure that the Government are able to shared with the public. That is an absolute disgrace: we promote our interests in the best possible way in dealings need much more transparency. with our EU partners. Anything less would risk undermining our prospects of promoting the best solutions Ms Stuart: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely for Britain in the EU. right. I negotiated the opt-out for the junior doctors I understand some of the reasons why the new clause working time directive back in 1999, and in a sense we has been introduced. For example, I see why Members knew on the negotiating basis all the problems that of the European Parliament might be interested in hearing would happen in the NHS that the UK Government more about the position of the British Government—under saw coming. We also knew that the directive would not the co-determination procedure, they have an interest in actually hit us until about 2008-09. Now it is here, and knowing more—but we are not Members of the European everyone here is entitled to say, “We didn’t see it coming.” Parliament; we are Members of this Parliament, and we In fact, on one level we did see it coming. should be concerned about the accountability of the It is also important for the House to consider the fact Government to this Parliament. We have no real interest that, during the discussions on the Convention on the in giving information to a Parliament that happens to Future of Europe, I was in the very unusual position of have representation from all the nation states that we being a negotiating partner at Government level, and would be negotiating with. That is a bad reason for also representing the House. Therefore, provided that I promoting the new clause, and if it was to be further used a legal adviser from the House, I could be given the advanced in the House, I would repeat that argument. legal advice that was given to the previous Administration. There might well be another reason, and I have We should consider the nature and length of debates thought about this myself. The previous speaker, the in the European Union. I deliberately chose the working hon. Member for— time directive for junior doctors as an example, because it started in 1992 and started to have legislative impact Ms Gisela Stuart: Birmingham, Edgbaston. on this country 10 years later, and only now are we beginning to find out its full effect. Neil Carmichael: Excellent, a beautiful place. The We have now moved from Conservative to Labour to hon. Lady might well think that the transparency of the Conservative, and within our Government machinery— Commission is important—indeed, the transparency of [HON.MEMBERS: “Coalition.”] It is okay—the Liberal the Council of Ministers—and I have certainly thought Democrats came sixth in Barnsley, so there is a ray of about this long and hard. I understand why people hope. Given the veil that falls between one Administration would wish there to be more transparency in both those and the next, which hides the accumulated knowledge organisations. After all, they make decisions that are that could allow parliamentary scrutiny, there must be a important to us, but the new clause tackles the issue in mechanism that transcends individual Administrations, the wrong way because it would undermine the which would give the House access to the information Government’s capacity to negotiate. That is what we that has been given to Ministers. Although new clause 1 have to underline. is limited, it is nevertheless an important wedge representing When the Government enter negotiations with other that principle. nation states about the future of Europe, they must do so with the knowledge that they may or may not enter Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): I understand that into alliances with various Governments, and that those the hon. Lady is suggesting not necessarily publishing alliances may change during the negotiations. everything for everyone on this country’s negotiating position, but perhaps listening to Parliament. Am I Mr Redwood: I think my hon. Friend is misreading right in thinking that a similar system exists in Denmark? the new clause. It would mean that, when all the negotiation was done and we knew the final outcome, we would also Ms Stuart: Yes and no. I would caution against using know whether our Ministers had won or lost. What is the Danish principle, because it mandates Ministers wrong with that? How dare he be so undemocratic? bindingly. No one needs to talk to them when they are sitting round the negotiating table in Brussels, because Neil Carmichael: Because it is important to bear in they know what they will say. They do a head count and mind the next negotiation and not think only about the say, “The Danes say x.” The hon. Gentleman is right to one we have just had. That is obvious, because alliances refer to not publishing all the information, because too can fluctuate and relationships are important. I do not much information is also a weapon: people can be think my right hon. Friend would say the same thing drowned in information, and they cannot see the wood about any negotiation on a treaty outside Europe, and for the trees. certainly not, for example, about NATO. The advice given to Ministers should be made public to Parliament, so that Parliament can decide whether it Ms Stuart: The hon. Gentleman is fundamentally wishes to pursue something. More importantly, that misunderstanding the nature of the negotiations. One would allow information to move from one Administration thing that British Ministers are famous for is the fact to the next, and Parliament could develop the collective that, by the time they go into negotiations, they have memory of responsibility and decision making that is reached agreement across Whitehall. Quite often that essential in our dealings with the European Union. does not allow us to play a poker game. There is a 785 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 786 formed body of opinion that represents the British Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): I understand view, and, after the negotiations, we, as a House, have where my hon. Friend is coming from, and equally, I the right to know. understand the new clause. The reality is that after any Council meeting, 26 other countries run to their national Neil Carmichael: I would prefer to take the line that it press to say exactly what the British negotiating position is much more important to consider the outcome. Certainly, was and what we might have given away. Within about the House should be testing the Minister on that outcome 24 hours, anybody out there can see most of the negotiations and should be able to hold that Minister fully to account that have taken place. I am sure the hon. Member for for it, but explaining how we got there would be a Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) will understand dangerous route to take. this point. If we are going for transparency—if the detail of the negotiations is going to be out there anyway—surely it would be easier for the British Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): Will Government to come back, lay their cards on the table my hon. Friend give way? Does he— and say how they played their hand. Neil Carmichael: Yes, incidentally, I will give way. Neil Carmichael: The role of Ministers in interpreting each other’s decisions and talking to the press later is Mr Binley: I am most grateful. I thought you would, different from formally disclosing key positions. I do which I why I started to stand, and I— not spend a huge amount of time reading the newspapers, certainly not those produced by Mr Murdoch. I would Mr Speaker: Order. I have not given way at all. I just much prefer the House to test Ministers on the outcomes want to help the hon. Gentleman to get it right, and I and make sure that the integrity of the decisions was am sure that he will use the correct parliamentary protected and that the capacity of our Ministers to act language. independently in the interests of this nation state was upheld. That is why the clause is not helpful. Mr Binley: I am most grateful for your help and I understand the motives, as I said at the beginning of advice again, Mr Speaker. The House is also about the my remarks. I can see why people want to have more people we represent. If it is right and proper that they information about the European Parliament and more should have full knowledge of what their Government transparency in relation to the Commission. It is not a are doing, does the argument that my hon. Friend is clear structure at the best of times. I can see why more making not deny them that right too? transparency should be required of the Council of Ministers, but the clause is not the right mechanism. Neil Carmichael: I certainly think it is important for The critical issue, as we discussed last time, is to make people to know how decisions are made, but it is equally sure that this House can test Ministers thoroughly and important to ensure that we have the quality of decisions properly at each and every opportunity. that are best for Britain and that we do not box ourselves in for the future. Many of the decisions made in Departments are not necessarily things that the public Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con): need to know before those decisions are implemented I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; he has and discussed in the House. done so with charm and good grace and been very generous indeed. He has said a number of times how important it is for the House to hold Ministers to Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): My hon. account. How can the House hold Ministers to account Friend is being exceptionally generous in giving way. if Members do not understand precisely what has been The idea of keeping those decisions secret is the reverse discussed, which then comes before the House? He of what the Prime Minister wants. In his speech of undermines his own argument, does he not? 26 May 2009, the Prime Minister argued strongly for transparency so that people would know how the Government negotiated. Is my hon. Friend opposing Neil Carmichael: No, I do not. The real way of the Prime Minister? holding Ministers to account is to examine the quality of the decision that has been made and the impact that that decision will have on this country. It would be far Neil Carmichael: Certainly not. The Prime Minister better to look at the decision and its implications and is right to seek transparency wherever it is appropriate understand the reasons for it than to worry too much and possible. That is a good characteristic of the coalition about why it was made and by whom. That is the key. Government and I welcome it. I can see huge opportunities Too often in this country, we tend to examine the for more transparency, wherever appropriate. I think entrails rather than the direction of travel and the the Prime Minister also wants to be sure that his position implications of the decision that we are supposed to be representing this country or the position of his Ministers implementing. representing this country in the Council of Ministers enables them to negotiate, form the appropriate alliances with necessary nation states and deal with matters Ms Gisela Stuart: I have one concrete example for the properly, with the guarantee that trust and understanding hon. Gentleman: the way we deal with the art market are possible. Otherwise we will find that we as a nation and the extra tax on it. Britain currently has an opt-out, state are not respected by our partners. We must be but it is coming up for renewal, which could completely respected on our terms—that is, for promoting our undermine Christie’s and the art market in this country. national interest and making sure that what we want to At what level in this House does he think he will debate do is achievable. the ministerial decision on that? 787 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 788

4.15 pm Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I follow very much in the footsteps of the hon. Member for Neil Carmichael: You make a very good point. I am Stroud (Neil Carmichael) by highlighting two very worrying sure that the Minister, if he is involved in that negotiation, developments in our discussions in this House on Europe has taken heed of what you have said. that have taken place since the coalition was formed: the abolition of the twice-yearly debates on Europe and Mr Speaker: Order. I am always delighted to be told the decision of the Foreign Affairs Committee no longer that I have made a good point when I have done so, and to go to the country holding the EU presidency to even when I have not, but in this case I have not. The examine its plans. hon. Lady might have done. Mr Bone: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Neil Carmichael: Many apologies, Mr Speaker—it is a long time since I have had quite so many interventions. Mr MacShane: I am such a fan of the hon. Gentleman’s The key thing here is the quality of the decision. If a work on human trafficking that I feel I must give way, Minister came along and tried to defend a decision that but I will try not to take many interventions, for obvious this House was unhappy about, this House should say reasons. so. That is the right approach. Mr Bone: The Backbench Business Committee received Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): a powerful bid today for a debate about the European Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Union and fish discards, and we are taking it forward, so I think that there will be a debate in the House soon about Europe. Neil Carmichael: I will, but it is the last intervention I will take. Mr MacShane: I am grateful that the poor fish thrown into the sea will now have their flippers flipped in the Michael Connarty: May I suggest a much simpler House of Commons. piece of logic to explain why the new clause would I want our Government and our House regularly to probably not be helpful? If the hon. Gentleman has ever debate Europe, but the plain fact is that it is the decision attended a European Committee, whose members are of this Government—this coalition—not so to do. The supplied with a large volume of documentation that Foreign Affairs Committee, with its coalition majority, they are supposed to read before debating the issue and is also abolishing its regular trip to the European Union taking a position when voting, he will realise that most nation that holds the presidency. do not read it. The more information that is supplied on European matters, the more paper that is provided, Mr Redwood: Has the right hon. Gentleman noticed which will not be read. that we are debating Europe all day today, and that we have had quite a lot of days on this Bill? Neil Carmichael: That is a really good point to end on. The hon. Member for— Mr MacShane: Yes, and I well remember the right hon. Gentleman in the even longer debates—going Michael Connarty: Linlithgow and East Falkirk. through the night—on the treaty of Amsterdam saying that signing it would mean the abolition of Britain. Neil Carmichael: Right. [Laughter.] That is longer When there is a new Bill, we have debates, and we have than Stroud. had many debates and some good discussions on this one. That is an important point to end on, because I do Chris Heaton-Harris: Will the right hon. Gentleman not think that everyone does read everything they should, give way? and we have come across that in the past. The European Scrutiny Committee is under the excellent chairmanship Mr MacShane: Can I make just a wee bit of progress? of my hon. Friend the Member for— [HON MEMBERS: [Interruption.] Well, I will give way to one of my “Stone.”]—for Stone (Mr Cash), but one of the things I favourite ex-MEPs. How can I resist? noted before becoming a Member was that scrutiny of Chris Heaton-Harris: I am not sure whether I should European measures, if carried out at all, was not thorough. take that as a compliment. Has the right hon. Gentleman I have done some research and found that decisions had a chance to read the written ministerial statement have literally been nodded through, which is characteristic about this subject that was issued during our previous of these kinds of issues. It is far better for this House to five days of debate? It included what, in coalition terms, consider the outcomes seriously, because it is the outcomes would probably be deemed a full and comprehensive that matter. That has always been the case in decision offer to the House about how we might scrutinise making. Sometimes the process that we use needs to be justice and home affairs matters. We should examine scrutinised because the outcome is not so good, and that offer in much closer detail today, and perhaps we clearly we might want to test that. will later on. We should never undermine the capacity of a British Minister to represent our interests and make adjustments Mr MacShane: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, to his or her position while in negotiations with other because he brings to the House considerable knowledge nation states. I repeat that if we were having this discussion of how the European Parliament does its business. That about the United Nations or NATO, for example, I do is exactly the way in which the European Parliament not think we would be talking in these terms, because carries out its scrutiny. Perhaps we should learn from we understand the value of empowering Ministers to him; perhaps he and I should set up a small committee make decisions on our behalf and report back with to go to Strasbourg —for him to return there—to see outcomes that are to our liking. what we might learn. 789 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 790

In essence, the hon. Member for Stroud is quite right: Mr MacShane: We can enter into a political science this is the WikiLeaks amendment. It would abolish the or constitutional debate on the nature of decision making need for WikiLeaks, because the process of Government in the EU—which, I remind right hon. and hon. Members, decision-making would be published. I would love to spends only 1% of Europe’s gross national income—but see that for something infinitely more important to my the plain fact is that the Commissioners are appointed constituents—the thinking, advice and documents that and it is the Council of Ministers that takes decisions, have led to the promulgation of the NHS Bill or, in two as mandated by its member countries. It is no more a or three weeks’ time, that lead to the Budget. I expect, legislature than it is a legislative process when one goes however, that I would find very little support on the to negotiate a treaty on the law of the sea or on new Government side of the House and absolutely none environmental rules. from the Opposition Front Bencher waiting for his turn to speak for the idea that we do government better if we Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Will my right allow Mr Julian Assange to publish every document hon. Friend give way? and every communication that goes into a Minister’s box. I can confirm exactly the point that my hon. Friend Mr MacShane: Of course I give way to my hon. the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) Friend on the Front Bench. made about how negotiations can and do take place. I recall once trying to protect the steelworkers of Britain Mr David: It is worthy of note that when the European from a proposal, which the then Labour Government Parliament is engaged in the process of co-decision, it supported, to allow the import of steel—a derogation publishes on its website all its position papers in between of the then EU trade rules—from a dodgy supplier in negotiations. That is a model, in many ways, of how Egypt which I knew to be linked to the army and was, in democracy in practice should operate. my view, a wholly corrupt organisation. I could not quite work out why we were so keen to allow the deal to Mr MacShane: There is a curious alliance between go through, which would have damaged steelworkers’ two distinguished former Members of the European jobs and production in this country and, if the steel Parliament—my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for were re-exported, those in the rest of Europe, too. Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris)—in saying that perhaps I could not, however, convince any civil servants. At this House can learn from the European Parliament. one stage, I had 27 of them, including two knights of Other right hon. and hon. Members might care to look the realm, grouped around me, telling me, “Minister, at that. you have to give way.” I put down my little foot and The European Union will be taking very big decisions said, “No, I am elected. That is what I am paid to do.” on Friday, when there are two special meetings of the Then, they went out and got the Secretary of State for Council, the first of which— Business and Industry to phone me, and at that stage either I resigned on the spot or accepted a superior order. Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): The right hon. Gentleman, in some dispute with my hon. Friend the Mr Bone: Did the hon. Gentleman do the honourable Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), thing and resign? suggested that decisions taken by the Council of Ministers were not legislative acts. Can he think of anything that is more of a legislative act than when, by a majority Mr MacShane: No, I did not resign, simply because I vote, the decision that is taken is binding upon this work in a team. When the hon. Gentleman graces the House without our having any opportunity to intervene? Front Bench, as I hope and I am sure he soon will, he will have to learn that there is something called teamwork, Mr MacShane: Yes. In my constituency, which is a and that until he becomes Prime Minister he will take very strong manufacturing one, the acts of the World rather than give orders. Trade Organisation have far more impact, and we do I am not sure that it would have been any particular not consider the WTO to be a legislative body. help to have published all my animadversions immediately On Friday, there will be two highly important meetings afterwards, although I told my steelworker community of the European Council, the first of which will discuss friends privately what had happened. Frankly, one cannot Libya. I am a supporter of much of the robust line that do business in that way. I am not even sure whether, the Prime Minister has taken since he came back from constitutionally or legally, suggestions made before a his trip to the middle east. It will be interesting to see decision is taken can then go fully into the public whether the Government publish all the details of the domain if they belong to other people. I think we may propositions that they are putting up for that debate find, legally, that there are certain rules on what is the and decision, or whether they offer a referendum lock property of other states. We do not publish every to the people of Britain on any future military intervention communication with the United States, France, or any in Libya, as proposed in certain other areas under country, for good and sensible international legal reasons. the Bill. Once that meeting is over—I sincerely wish the Prime Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): The Minister and his team well; I hope that the whole House process in Europe is legislative. When this House legislates, does, because Libya will continue to occupy our minds the debates are published, regardless of the ultimate and worries for many months ahead—the British Prime decision, so that the British people know how the debate Minister will be asked to leave the room. That is because has been formed in the legislature. As the Commission, the next set of decisions that will be taken, on economic Council and Parliament of Europe are legislatures, the governance and the euro, will exclude Britain, even information should likewise be public. though they will impact on us, as the Council will 791 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 792

[Mr MacShane] “Non-euro members will be invited to participate in the coordination.” discuss how to react to the new Irish Government’s They also state that it will be guaranteed that position in wanting a serious rewriting of the agreement “the Heads of State or government of the interested non-euro that the previous Government had reached. It may area Member States are duly involved in the process.” discuss the European Parliament’s call for a ban on I therefore do not think he was quite right to suggest naked short selling, which the German Government that we would not be involved, because the conclusions have already introduced in Germany and which is very state specifically that we will be. However, the whole unpopular in the City. Britain will not even be there, system is completely crazy. because it is excluded from that part of the Council. The notion that we will learn about decisions made in Mr MacShane: We will see what happens on Friday. I Europe if Britain publishes its documents is nonsense, am concerned, as all hon. Members ought to be, that because unless all 26 other members states do the same, because we are not in the euro—for perfectly good we are left in ignorance on the ebb and flow of discussions. reasons—Britain is not as fully involved as the other deciders in many areas of decision making. We will Mr Cash rose— leave that to be revealed in Friday’s meeting and future discussions. Mr MacShane: If I may, I will continue, because I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will have a good chance I am very attracted to the point made by my hon. to speak shortly. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty). We can now, in the House of Commons, announce the new Connarty law: there is a 4.30 pm precise ratio whereby the more paper provided on any Having taken part in many European decisions and European decision, the less real discussion and debate negotiations, including on treaties, I say to the House there is thereon. I hope that he will agree that that new that they are precisely that—negotiations. Perhaps because Connarty law should be enshrined as an official part of British parliamentarians are equipped with a better way how we do business in Europe. with words than some of our more dramatically rigidified I remember that for the constitutional Convention, colleagues, we often find words that help the Council on which my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, come to a better decision—often helped, it must be Edgbaston valiantly represented the House of Commons, said, by our excellent officials. Frankly, the notion that the then Foreign Secretary and myself set up a special those notes, scribbles and whispers can somehow all be Select Committee and published everything. We had published is bordering on fantasy, as the hon. Member regular meetings for the sake of accountability, but not for Stroud rightly said. a single Opposition Front Bencher ever came to them and they were often inquorate. The hon. Member for Charlie Elphicke: The right hon. Gentleman is giving Stone (Mr Cash) was valiantly present at every meeting, an interesting depiction of matters in the Council of but his party leadership was absent. Again, that reflects Ministers. Will he tell the House whether Governments the Connarty law—the more opportunity and information such as the UK Government formally table amendments right hon. and hon. Members are given on Europe, the for discussion, or whether the process is more informal, less inclined they are to take it up and debate it. with things written down at the end? Michael Connarty: I think that what I said was that Mr MacShane: It is a mixture of both. First, one the more paperwork that is provided, the less it is read. listens to the positions of all 27 member states, then one Information can and should be given, and Ministers do says things like, “Look, that’s not going to fly for us. We not give it often enough from the Dispatch Box or in suggest you drop it. Here are our ideas.” Proposals go evidence. They try to hide information. It is paperwork backwards and forwards between the Council secretariat that frightens people, not information. and the Commission secretariat, and they come back here for discussion, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) rightly said. Whitehall Mr MacShane: I am very happy to have that minor has a very effective co-ordination operation. As a result, revision to the Connarty law—the more paper people the finest civil servants in the land meet very early every are given on the European Union, the less it is read, morning—sensibly that is usually done without any debated and discussed. gabby politicians present—and over a large English breakfast, on the eighth floor of some Hilton or Hyatt Michael Connarty indicated assent. in Brussels, they hammer out a position and work out where every other country will be to maximise what Mr MacShane: Good, we have now established that Britain wants. Very often, we are the demandeurs who once and for all. want to achieve a policy change in the European Union which requires skilled diplomatic negotiation. I say Stephen Phillips: The right hon. Gentleman’s argument respectfully that the notion that all that can be minuted seems to illustrate what is wrong with the new clause, and published is not realistic. which is that there is no definition of “relevant”. It is therefore entirely unclear whether vast volumes of Mr Cash: On a point of information, I just wanted to documentation would be produced were it to form part put it to the right hon. Gentleman that the European of the Bill. That is my real objection to the new clause. conclusions of 4 February, to which he referred in the Does he agree, and is that an aspect of the Connarty context of the eurozone and the other member states, conjecture, as I shall call it—or perhaps the Connarty- specifically state: MacShane law, as it now turns out to be? 793 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 794

Mr MacShane: Yes, “relevant” is a difficult adjective Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): To take up the to define. There is an even more difficult adjective in the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dover Bill, which states that only a matter that the Minister (Charlie Elphicke), I am a great advocate of transparency, judges to involve “significant” sharing of sovereignty which is crucial. The problem is that the Bill proposes should be brought back to the House for debate and a unilateral transparency. We are not in the business of possible referendum. I put it to Members that no British declaring that we are for unilateral disarmament before Government or Minister would sign a treaty that they negotiations. Will the Minister ensure that although we would then bring back to the House of Commons and need to make progress on transparency, we need to do offer for referendum. It would be a dereliction of duty. I so across Europe, and not just in respect of our negotiating have every confidence in the excellent occupant of the team, which might feel hampered in making the key post of Minister for Europe, and his duty is to negotiate decisions that matter so much to my constituents? the best for Britain. If a treaty is not good enough for Britain, he should not sign it. We should effectively veto Mr MacShane: The hon. Lady makes a fair point. it there and then rather than have the nonsense and Aneurin Bevan famously said apropos of unilateral rigmarole in the Bill, whereby a treaty would be brought nuclear disarmament that we should not send a Foreign back to the House, we would have endless debate about Secretary naked into the conference chamber. Now and what was and was not significant, and then it would be then at the more tedious European Council meetings, put to a referendum. someone coming in naked might have cheered everyone up, but she is right to insist that Britain cannot unilaterally Charlie Elphicke: Will the right hon. Gentleman give reveal itself in its wondrous glory, naked to the rest of way? the world, while 26 other members are smuttily enjoying the sight while keeping their own crown jewels well and Mr MacShane: Of course, but this is the last intervention truly hidden. that I will take. Laura Sandys: The hon. Gentleman is perhaps taking the analogy a bit too far. Charlie Elphicke: I thank the right hon. Gentleman, who has been extraordinarily generous in taking Mr MacShane: I was tempted to do so, but I shall interventions. resist. I raised with the hon. Member for Birmingham, My frustration, after 17 years in the House, is that we Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) the situation in Denmark, and still do not know how to discuss the EU. We are still she said, “Their negotiating position was known. We frightened of going to the national capitals of Europe. knew what they were doing.” Is not a potential concern Much of the information that the Bill calls for can be about the new clause the fact that our negotiating found if hon. Members are prepared to take the time to position could be known? Does it harm Denmark in meet opposite numbers of all parties—the European practice that its position is known? debaters and deciders in the Bundestag, the Assemblée Nationale or wherever. Hon. Members could also easily Mr MacShane: The Danish Parliament is very different. find things out from civil servants in Brussels. Most of The last time there was a majority Government in the information is available if they are prepared to take Denmark was 1909. Actually, perhaps that will not be the time to find it. such an unusual thing even for our own legislature in Our own negotiating functionaries, to whose the years to come—let us wait and see how this century extraordinary qualities I pay tribute, would be quite unfolds, especially if the people are so foolish as to happy to discuss with Committees of this House what adopt that ludicrous alternative vote nonsense. [HON. they do, but we have reduced European matters to MEMBERS: “Hear, hear!”] It is so easy to get that reaction. adversarial, in-or-out, horrors-of-Brussels debates and The hon. Gentleman puts his finger on a good question: all the drivel that one can read in the Daily Mail and do we, as a House, take the European Union seriously similar papers, instead of accepting that we are in the enough? Do we have the mechanisms and structures to EU and, as the Prime Minister has made very clear, that involve ourselves fully in EU debates and decision making? we are not leaving. The EU will come forward with new The Danish Parliament has an all-party Committee— proposals, some of which will be tricky and some of although we should remember that the Danish Government which we will advance, and it would be much better if are always a coalition—to which Ministers must report, we could have a mature dialogue with other national and it is a much smaller operation. I would like this parliamentarians. There are 9,700 national parliamentarians House to set up permanent Standing Committees to and 700 MEPs. We overreact to what the latter say, and survey different areas of EU policy and legislation. Our ignore the need to connect to the national Parliaments Select Committees could have permanent Sub-Committees and parliamentarians of Europe to debate decisions. to track EU decisions that would otherwise be off the That would mean a revolution in how we do business. rota. Those Sub-Committees could travel around Frankly, the Labour Government failed miserably in Europe, and not necessarily just to Strasbourg and improving the quality of oversight and debate on EU Brussels—I keep insisting that decisions on Europe are decision making. I could publish some of the papers I taken in Rome, Paris, Warsaw and elsewhere, and not wrote—if they are not locked away under some 30-year comprehensively and uniquely in the two European rule—to call for some of the measures that we are Parliament buildings. discussing. I wish the Minister and his team well in I should like us to debate Council meetings after they changing how we do EU business. The new clause is not have taken place rather than before—I made my maiden the way forward, and I hope the motion is withdrawn speech in a pre-Council debate and have taken part in after the debate, but it represents, and is a symptom of, many more. a deep malaise in our nation and of the distrust of 795 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 796

[Mr MacShane] Mr MacShane: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Europe that many people feel. I understand that fully, Mr Shepherd: I am reluctant to, but as the travails of but I insist that parliamentarians can put it right. Hurling the right hon. Gentleman are so explicit, I will. insults at the EU will never achieve that. Mr MacShane: The working time decision was taken in 1994. I experienced two constituency cases involving 4.45 pm horrible deaths because of overworked doctors who Mr Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): were obliged to do long hours at the weekend who, to The Bill is titled the “European Union Bill”, and is a put it crudely, made slight mistakes with a zero, so I legislative measure by this Parliament in respect of the welcomed that decision. However, those provisions were government of this country. It seems to me that what there from 1994. They could have been put into operation Denmark does is what Denmark does, and what others and introduced slowly, but we pretended that that was do, they do. There is nothing unreasonable in the new not going to happen. The decision was made, but nothing clause, other than perhaps in respect of the question was secret. reasonably raised about the definition of “relevant”. However, I think that everyone in the debate understands Mr Shepherd: I have just heard another inaccuracy the gist of this rather important new clause. from the right hon. Gentleman, just as previously he was corrected on a matter of fact regarding the invitation We forget who we are. It was a struggle to get accountable of those not in the eurozone to be present at meetings government—that is what this is about: accountable affecting what are profound matters. I shall therefore government. It is an odd quirk of the British constitution take with slight caution some of the arguments that he that we seek accountability at certain levels. Some of us has advanced. have been here a long time and will remember the I should declare an interest: I am a parliamentary triumph of Sir John Major over Maastricht. If I recall vice-chairman of the Campaign for Freedom of correctly, he came back saying that he had won “game, Information. What is noticeable is that Europe is notoriously set and match”. As was rightly pointed out by several remiss in this area. It is proclaimed that work is being Members, that is the normal formula of most leaders of done on freedom of information, yet in many ways the EU countries, who all protest that they have secured bureaucracy in Europe is one of the most secretive some golden objective, the consequences of which we organisations of them all. only find out some years later. I emphasise that the struggle for accountable government was not easily Mr Cash: The very paper that led to the urgent won. In fact, the House used to sit in secret, and it was a question that divulged what was going on with European criminal offence to reveal the force and arguments that economic governance was described as a “non-paper”. took place. We did not know, therefore, whether the In other words, it was a paper that no one was supposed man who protested he was our friend was indeed our to know anything about. friend, and we did not know whether the person pointed out as the enemy was indeed our enemy. To the benefit Mr Shepherd: This is the record on Europe that most of this country, that went. An essential ingredient of of us will recall; it is not the fantasy of some, who see our constitution, therefore, is the concept of accountability, Europe as an object of almost theological insistence. but we cannot have accountability if we do not know how the Government act and what they say. Mr MacShane rose— Today’s most relevant observation—I thought it was Mr Shepherd: No, I will not give way. The right hon. important, and I hope that the House thinks so too—was Gentleman spent nearly 30 minutes repeating the— made by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). He said that many of the Mr MacShane: I was taking interventions. decisions coming from the EU are legislative decisions. Imagine that the House sat in secret discussing legislative Mr Shepherd: Indeed, and I took an intervention decisions, and that none of us could be held to account—it from the right hon. Gentleman, if he remembers. However, is rather like the coalition agreement, is it not?—for the I have listened to the argument, and it is the same outcome of the decisions. No one is held accountable. argument that he makes most of the time. Although That would end democracy in this country as we understand repetition does inform one, it sometimes becomes like a it. It is a difficult enough task to hold Governments to woodpecker on the brain. [Interruption.] No,no,Iam account: time goes by, and the exigencies and pressures going to be fair. This is an important new clause. Our of other issues get rammed in. constitutional arrangements require Ministers to be We are facing a huge constitutional change that has accountable to this House, and the new clause would taken place over the past 30 years, and the decisions give us a better understanding of what is happening to now made within the EU structure are profound and our future and our constitutional arrangements. affect all our lives. One of the promoters of the new The European Union set up a body—indeed, the clause, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston sat on it—to (Ms Stuart), gave a very good example—the working bring the citizens of Europe closer to the institutions time directive for junior doctors. It had enormous and nature of the European Union. I have watched, as consequences, and the House would have been better have all Members of this House, the disengagement of placed to agitate and put pressure on Ministers who those citizens—certainly in this country, but also in proclaimed that they were fighting for Britain all the many others, right across Europe—which is becoming way and were winning game, set and match. However, very severe indeed. We have only to look at Ireland, the consequences of that decision are now being felt which has done everything that was required of it and is throughout our national health service. now in an horrendous state, so I do not need the right 797 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 798 hon. Gentleman, the former Minister for Europe, to say Mr Shepherd: As I understand it, the European Union that this is wonderful. It is not; we expect accountable purports to be a country now. That change of title Government. happened following Maastricht. We became citizens of the Union, also under Maastricht. Those issues were Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): We are quite rightly fiercely fought over. The question of whether Her Majesty focusing this debate on the workings of the European the Queen was a citizen of Europe arose on the Front Union, but some right hon. and hon. Members seem to Benches here. We asked those questions and they were be establishing a principle that must surely apply to all debated. The Bill was passed, but it was, as Labour international treaty organisations that the UK signs up Members will recall, a damned close-run thing—on one to, whether on environmental, legislative or defence amendment in particular. matters in international law. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that he wants exactly the same transparency in Mr Cash: The very amendment paper that my hon. all negotiations in every treaty organisation of which Friend is holding in his hand demonstrates the amendments the UK is a part? Surely that would be consistent. that have been tabled and that are available to everyone who cares to look at them. On the basis that the Council Mr Shepherd: I do not accept the argument, because of Ministers is a legislative body, does he not agree that, there are very few international agreements that apply if we have to receive its legislation and are then allowed in a directly legislative way in this country. Therefore, to table amendments to it, we should be entitled to see on a great range of matters we have to put things the amendments that have been tabled during the preceding through this House; therefore, they are governed by the process? processes of this House. Normally they are nodded through, that is true. None the less, there is accountability Mr Shepherd: That is the argument, and I am glad to this House, and there are the Ponsonby rules and all that it was so briskly conveyed. On that note, I urge the that—if they amount to as much as I would like them to House to support the new clause. amount to. I would therefore urge the House to support the view that we should know exactly what is happening. Michael Connarty: I hope not to delay the House for I do not want to hear “Game, set and match”; I want to too long. I am actually a signatory to this new clause, hear where we stand in these matters. I want our Front but I hope that the hon. Member for Hertsmere Bench to be quite candid about this matter, which lies at (Mr Clappison) will withdraw it. It was an attempt to the heart of this European Union Bill, as amended. I ask for a process in which information should be provided was sent a press release, or whatever it was, to advise me to make sense of any proposal under section 4, which is as to the merits of the Bill. Well, I will make my own mentioned in clause 5 on statements to the House. The judgment on that, as will other Members who do not truth is that there is a problem with the understanding follow the Whip as closely as I do. I hope that we will of, and interest in, the decisions made in the European have enough belief in ourselves—because this applies to Council, which are then enacted by this Parliament and us, to the British Government—to introduce a proper which affect the citizens, businesses and communities process in which Ministers will be candid and bring that we represent. forth exactly what happens in these meetings. The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd) The words is always keen for us to be more informed, but I am not “including all amendments sponsored by Ministers and other sure that the new clause would achieve that. Listening to member states during negotiation of the treaty or decision” the debate, I have become more and more convinced particularly excite me. Clearly that proposal would not that more and more documentation does not mean apply at the time of the meetings but to afterwards, more and more information. We need to look carefully when we would come to understand the character of at how the House treats the process involved. There are, those who are making the law. I think, six members and one former member of the European Scrutiny Committee here today, and we tend to take a lot of interest in these matters, but there is not Mr Clappison: Would it not be very strange indeed if the same breadth of understanding, information gathering Ministers were to try to keep secret the amendments or discussion of European matters in the generality of that they had tabled during such negotiations? Is not the House. this something that people should subsequently know? Much can be explained by changes in the structure of how Parliament deals with European issues. We used to Mr Shepherd: I believe so, because there is a matter of have European Standing Committees, with specific the most profound trust involved. When Ministers speak designations as A, B and C, specific remits and a fixed at the Dispatch Box, we trust that they are telling the membership of 13 each, and they debated every single truth. That is one of the rules and we must hold them to issue that came from the European Council about which it—[Interruption.] No, that is a convention of the the European Scrutiny Committee was not happy. What House. Ministers have fallen when they have lied at the happens now is that a randomised group of people Dispatch Box. chosen by the Committee of Selection turn up now and then and the Committees have no sense of a specific Mr David: I hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying, remit. They are still foolishly called A, B and C as if and I have some sympathy with the point that he is they still have specific remits, but when a Minister making, but does he not foresee a legal problem with brings forward provisions to change our position and the publication of the amendments proposed not only bring in new law on the basis of a directive, regulation by the British Government but by other member states or other proposal from the European Commission, very as well? few people understand what that Minister is doing. 799 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 800

5pm it is going to be heavily pressurised by migration from We need to reflect carefully on what will happen other parts of the world— particularly from Africa, when this Bill is enacted and it comes to something as and perhaps very quickly from north Africa. We are not serious as a referendum. Of course, I said originally that a member of Frontex because we are not a Schengen I did not believe this provision would ever be used; it is country. We sit on the board—Frontex has been quite effectively wallpaper, as was said by many learned people nice to us, even though we did not sign up to it—so we from whom we took evidence. If the circumstances for a asked whether any of our officers engaged in a Frontex referendum arise, there will be a lack of information, a operation could have the same protection from prosecution lack of understanding and only a very small number of as other Frontex officers. We are told “No, because you people will debate the issues intensively, which they will are not a member of the Schengen group.” The train is do either because they have a fixed political position or leaving the station very quickly to protect the rest of on account of their interest and knowledge. Europe, and the United Kingdom is running at the back waving a little flag saying “Can we join? But we do not The idea is to gain more information from Ministers, want to be full members.” which I believe will require a change in the structure of how this House treats European business. That is important. We ought to be fully informed of the consequences of The Home Secretary put forward that view when she decisions such as that. I am not talking about those who was the shadow Leader of the House and the Labour are, for reasons of prejudice, Eurosceptic and against Government Front-Bench team also spoke strongly about doing things on an EU basis, in the belief that they can it, but it never came to anything. I believe that it must somehow be done on a bilateral basis with 26 other now be looked at again. countries. If we had been fully informed, we would have concluded that membership of Frontex was important The new clause makes a plea for this House to be enough for us to take the step of joining the Schengen treated seriously and to be properly informed by Front- countries and being a real part of Europe. Bench Members. Members need to be interested and Although such information and debate would be engaged in the process whereby differences can be made extremely useful, that will not be made possible by the to our relationship with Europe. new clause, and I therefore hope that it will be withdrawn. However, we need to make those changes in the Chamber Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): I am if our constituents are to understand that we know attracted by the hon. Gentleman’s argument about the what we are talking about in Europe, and that we are need for a change in the way this House deals with acting on the basis of analysis and proper information European policy. Is not the logic of his argument, rather than prejudice. however, that we need to go back to an earlier stage, whereby we as legislators should be involved, pre- Charlie Elphicke: It is a privilege to follow the negotiations and pre-discussions, in thematic debates extraordinarily interesting and thoughtful speech of the and policy statements so that we can make some input hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael to the Commission and the institutions of Europe? Connarty). The debate on the new clause has been Does he accept that? largely underpinned by a dislike and distrust of the European Union and its works, and I share that distrust. Michael Connarty: I not only accept it; I fully endorse Many Members feel that an organisation that spends and applaud it. There is a work programme that comes vast swathes of our money and imposes massive increases forward from the European Commission, and it is in our budget contributions in return for no obvious debated in Westminster Hall, but very few people turn value, at a time of great downturn across the continent, up: that is the reality. We have tried to engage a number is not an organisation that is in touch with this country—or of Select Committees by referring to them matters of any other country. They do not trust an organisation interest to the European Scrutiny Committee, which that feels so remote from the electors of this country continues to be chaired ably by the hon. Member for and every other country in the European Union. Even Stone (Mr Cash). We are trying to engage Select in Germany, an increasing number of people are finding Committees in those issues so that the European Scrutiny the European Union and its works troubling. Committee and then the House could be advised of any European matters of substance that should be considered. Martin Horwood: The hon. Gentleman says that he We could therefore change aspects of the apparatus attaches no obvious value to the European Union. we use before reaching the point to which the new Does he exclude from that the EU’s important contribution clause refers, where a Minister is recommending a to world climate change and trade negotiations? Does referendum. When this clause is triggered, the Government he exclude the European arrest warrant, which enables will have decided that they want to do whatever it is the us to fight terrorism across international borders? Surely referendum has been called to consider. It will be a those things have some value. referendum on a Government proposal, perhaps for a Charlie Elphicke: They could all have been achieved new treaty or a new decision that will change our by nation states. Obviously we welcome the ability to do relationship with Europe. some things on a wider and more agreed basis, but we Let me finish by providing one example. We took a do not want the spider’s web of intrusion into our decision a long time ago—it was probably agreed across national lives and the lives of member states that we the Chamber because it was politically sensitive for us have seen in the European Union. That is why many not to opt into all of the Amsterdam treaty—whereby Members object to it and say, “We don’t trust anything we did not become members of the Schengen group of that happens there.”Every time there is a treaty negotiation countries. That group is effectively all the European the spider’s web creeps further out, more of our money Union countries apart from us. Frontex, the new border is sucked in, and more of our national vitality is taken police, is now trying to throw a ring around Europe and away from us and planted in Brussels. 801 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 802

I am merely recording the sentiments that, in my different, it may not have that effect. Does he have any view, underlie the new clause. It is felt that we have been grip on what the word “relevant” means here, and does shut out of the process, and that we do not have a say. this problem not underline why the new clause should For the last 20 or 30 years, the Governments of all the not be added to the Bill? member states in Europe have been saying that they have secured great deals in Europe, but the general Charlie Elphicke: I completely agree, and I was about public in countries throughout the European Union to turn to that argument. have a sense that they have, to some extent, been sold The new clause is important in prompting a debate down the river. that should be had—and might previously have been The new clause is underpinned by questions such as, had—about the relationship between this House and “What are the amendments that you are moving? What the Executive in respect of our negotiations in Europe. are the discussions that you are having? What really [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Birmingham, happened behind those closed doors?” I understand Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) nods from a sedentary position. that view, but although I share the deep concern that This is a very important point, which goes to the heart has been expressed about our involvement, and future of things, and it is why I asked about the situation in involvement, in the European Union, I am not sure that Denmark. I did so not in order to trip her up but the new clause represents the right way in which to deal because I was genuinely interested and knew that, as she with it. There is a balance to be achieved, given the is an expert on European matters, including the Council inevitable tension between transparency and the need of Ministers, she would have experience to share on that for negotiations. I am a massive fan of transparency, subject. because I want to know how the European Union The phrase “relevant documentation” in the new spends our money, and I want government that is clause is not, of course, defined; it could mean anything accountable to our people. Dare I say it, I want government or nothing. That is a technical deficiency, therefore. I of the people, by the people, for the people. On the also think that there is a technical deficiency in the other hand, we must take part in negotiations, and we phrase, “amendments sponsored”. I asked the former must ensure that our negotiating position does not blow Europe Minister, the right hon. Member for Rotherham up in our faces. (Mr MacShane), how amendments are dealt with in Many examples can be given. The Cabinet meets in Europe: is an amendment tabled and moved, or is there secret, and we do not learn what happened until some a nice bit of Euro chit-chat and then everyone comes to years later; the NATO councils and some of the United an agreement at the end? The hon. Member for Nations councils meet in secret as well. Traditionally, Birmingham, Edgbaston can correct me if I am wrong, relations between member states tend not to be published but my impression is that it is a bit of a mishmash of on a case-by-case basis. I have listened with interest to everything, and out of the sausage machine of discussion the argument being put that the Council of Ministers is comes a new piece of Euro-legislation, freshly approved not an executive organisation but a legislature. That is a with the mark of Europe stamped on it. technical, semantic argument about what is really a negotiation between Governments of member states—it Ms Gisela Stuart: I fear the hon. Gentleman is absolutely is an intergovernmental negotiation. right. The Austro-Hungarian empire would have called I have grave misgivings about giving away our negotiating the process “durchwurschteln” as it is a sort of sausage position and telling other nations, which we want to machine. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on having squeeze for a better deal, where our top and bottom such a good grasp of what goes on even though he has lines are in that negotiation process. I make that point never been inside any of those negotiating rooms in because I must tell the House, with regret, that I used to Europe. The key problem is that the practice and the be a law firm partner—I was a poacher before I turned theory are so far from what we think they are. That is gamekeeper—and in that time I would negotiate for my why I thought it was so important to try to open the clients against the lawyer on the other side of the table door on what goes on, and it also highlights why it is who was representing their client. I did not want to tell important to keep asking questions about how these them what I was going to concede; I did not want them things work. to have an idea of what I and my client might, and might not, give away in future negotiations. I did not Charlie Elphicke: I thank the hon. Lady, and I am want to reveal where the lines of debate were or when I humbled by her kind words and great generosity. An would say, “No further,” because if I had I would not important issue of transparency is involved here. We have got the best deal. Just as in those times I wanted to want negotiations to go on; we do not want to have get the best deal for my clients, in these times I want to everything picked over later, to risk our negotiating get the best deal for my clients, who are now the people position in future and to risk our relationship with of Dover, and the nation as a whole. other member states. They might not want some of their information put into the public domain. Stephen Phillips: Actually, my hon. Friend is a I want discussion to be full and frank. Why is that? I gamekeeper turned poacher. He is making a compelling do not know how anybody else feels, but I remember argument about not giving away our negotiating position that this country went through a phase of “sofa to other EU member states. The difficulty here, however, government”, when there were no minutes, no notes is to do with the use of the word “relevant” in the new and no discussion. Not everybody thinks that that was a clause. Does that mean that under this clause we would high point of our national life. Some people think that disclose information that would not already have been it was a particular low point because little deals got cut known to other nation states? In that case I can see the on sofas, in corridors and far away from anyone taking point of his argument. However, if it means something any minutes. That is the risk when we say, “Let us know 803 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 804

[Charlie Elphicke] because he reads all those boring papers, whereas all the rest of us put our heads in our hands and then flip what goes on behind closed doors.” Funnily enough, through them quickly to pick out the main points. My this sort of thing will not go on behind closed doors; it hon. Friend actually reads this stuff—I do not know will go on in closed corridors and on sofas. I worry how he does it, but he does—so he is able to have a about that, because it is a real concern. substantial and serious discussion about the issues. I put it to the Minister—I hope that he will respond in 5.15 pm due course—that we need a mechanism, perhaps a Committee system, whereby those hon. Members who However, I also want to have a sense of transparency: are interested, even obsessed, with the European Union I want to know what Ministers are getting up to in can represent the House’s interests and hold discussions Europe. I want this House to be properly involved in in private, as the Finnish grand committee does, before matters to do with the European Union, as does the a negotiation happens. hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston. That is why I keep raising the example of Denmark. I have not yet The Intelligence and Security Committee knows what mentioned Finland, but I will now go on about both goes on, and therefore builds in some democratic those countries. accountability, but it does not blab to everyone exactly what our spies are up to around the world and what our Ms Stuart: May I encourage the hon. Gentleman to security interests are. If it were possible to have a go on about Finland, because it has this much more mechanism similar to the grand committee system in right than the Danes do? Finland, so that Parliament could be involved, perhaps there would be a greater sense of trust and a greater Charlie Elphicke: That is exactly the argument that I sense not only that we have the essential transparency, seek to put. There is massive distrust of the European but that we do not send our Ministers in to bat in Union in this House, and massive suspicion that Brussels with—as I think a former Prime Minister put Ministers—of all parties—go to Brussels and sell us it—one arm tied behind their backs, so that they cannot down the river without our knowing what goes on. negotiate in this country’s fullest interests. Meanwhile, our electors give us a good kicking about why this, that and the other happened, and we cannot Mr Buckland: My hon. Friend makes a powerful case really explain why it happened and what our role in it in relation to Finland. Does he not agree that the was. So there is an accountability deficit. system in Sweden, which is quite similar to that in Denmark has an open process, whereby its Folketing’s Finland, would provide a useful way forward? Such a European affairs committee meets in public and agrees committee could meet, usually in closed session, and a mandate system, as the hon. Member for Birmingham, give a mandate to the Minister. The Minister would Edgbaston told us. It says, “This is your up line and this have discretion to depart from that mandate, but the is your down line. Go off to Europe and negotiate.” The position would be clearly defined before the Minister process is public so, as she beautifully put it, people do went to the Council. That has all the attractions of the not need to worry about Denmark because they know systems that my hon. Friend has been ably advocating. where it stands. People count it in or count it out, and negotiate with everyone else. I suspect that Denmark is Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend makes a powerful left out of negotiations because people say, “We don’t point. I do not think that it is for me, as a Back Bencher, need to cut a deal with those guys.” to find the detailed solution, but those who are senior in the House, such as Front Benchers, should consider the Ms Stuart: The difference is that although Finland other models of accountability used in Europe. They mandates, the mandate can still be negotiated with its should consider the fact that we want accountability Parliament, whereas the Danes are mandated and the and transparency, without prejudicing the United Ministers cannot change their minds. They are therefore Kingdom’s negotiating position in the discussions that at the meeting simply to say what their Parliament has are held in European Councils. So long as we have to told them. The Finnish system is better because it still put up with being a member of the European Union—or, allows for mandating movement. indeed, are enthused by that fact—we need to negotiate well and get the best possible deal for this country. Charlie Elphicke: Beautifully put, as ever, by the hon. Lady, who describes the problem exactly. The Danes’ Martin Horwood: I originally intended to speak in mandate becomes an open negotiating position and support of the comments made earlier in the debate by they lose their ability to be flexible and to push other my Gloucestershire neighbour, the hon. Member for member states in the give and take that sits at the heart Stroud (Neil Carmichael), but I found myself in a of true business or governmental negotiations. surprising degree of agreement with the hon. Member Finland, like Denmark, does involve its national for Dover (Charlie Elphicke), who gave a learned analysis legislature, but the difference is that in Finland this is of the implications of the new clause, as opposed to its done in private. The Finnish grand committee meets in intent. private, away from the cameras and the spotlight, so it As described by the hon. Member for Birmingham, can have that important discussion. Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) and others, the intention is to I do not know what other Members think, but I create more transparency and openness—that is obviously believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Stone a good thing, which we would all support—but somewhere (Mr Cash) has some good points to make. He makes in the drafting of the new clause it has become a little them with great passion and often at great length, and confused, or perhaps awkward, in the attempt to bring he is well informed. He passes the Linlithgow test, it within the scope of the Bill. 805 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 806

The effect of the new clause would be to reveal a Democrat Euro MPs and Members of this Parliament, great deal of documentation, but after the decision had would be sympathetic to them. There may even be been taken. The decision to which the statement under methods that we should explore similar to the Finnish clause 5 related would have already happened. Although model about which we have heard so much. Those much of the documentation would be relevant in the would also be greeted with a lot of sympathy, but the sense that it related to that decision, it might not prove new clause would not deliver any of those things, so I to be very pertinent to the decision. Much of it might be am afraid that hon. Members should throw it out. advice, even legal advice, that was ultimately rejected. So it would not have materially affected the decision Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con): My hon. Friend the under consideration. What really mattered would be the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd) reminded outcome, and the proposals that the British Government us that the purpose of the new clause is to deal with the were putting to Parliament and, perhaps even in a manifest lack of trust that the public have in the negotiation, referendum, to the people of this country. We could on behalf of the British public, of grave constitutional discuss that without the benefit of all the paperwork issues in the European Council and elsewhere. The new that had been discarded earlier in the process. clause would itself introduce a considerable constitutional The second problem with the new clause is that a lot change, and I hope that hon. Members will allow me to of what the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston say that I would find that not a necessarily unhappy said was about trying to add transparency to the process change, but a change none the less. That is the fact that, at European level—to the Commission’s decision-making heretofore, Ministers of the Crown negotiated and treated processes and the debate in the Council of Ministers. on behalf of the British people and of the Crown, and The hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Parliament, if it saw fit, studied the results of that treaty Rees-Mogg) compared that to the former secrecy of after the event. debates in this Chamber, but the new clause would not That is not necessarily a good way for Ministers to reveal the debate that took place at European level. It discuss the nation’s interests in the councils of the would reveal only the background paperwork, which world, but it is the situation as it stands. I would would be rather like getting a House of Commons suggest, therefore, that if we are to see a change to that briefing, but with no copy of Hansard to follow. protocol—as was, to a degree, anticipated by the previous The new clause would not bring great openness or Government in their discussions on the royal prerogative—it transparency to European processes. The only transparency may be appropriate to consider in the round the other that it would provide would be on the British negotiating international bodies and instruments to which we are position. Then we would start to have a problem, because party, and not just our relationship with the EU. although that would be revealed after the event, the Hon. Members have rightly said that the EU is of nature of the advice, especially the legal advice, could considerable concern to many of our constituents. It is, have profound implications for future negotiations. If but so are our World Trade Organisation negotiations. we revealed all that documentation, that would clearly The EU has not yet created a riot on the streets outside impact on the position of British Ministers in subsequent Parliament—not yet, at least—yet a few years ago we negotiations. It would almost certainly impact on the had the anti-globalisation riots, which arose directly out advice, especially legal advice, that officials felt able to of our negotiations in the WTO. give to Ministers, because they would know that it was not private advice, but would become public in due Mr Davidson: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that course. Clearly, that would put British Ministers at a our constituents generally take European matters much disadvantage relative to other Ministers in the European more seriously than almost any other international Council. It would undermine the British interest and matters? Proof of that is the fact that in the Barnsley thereby achieve, presumably, the reverse of what the by-election, the UK Independence party managed to new clause intends. It would, in a real sense, send British beat the Conservatives. What does that say about public Ministers naked into the Council of Ministers. In some confidence in the Conservatives’ position on Europe? cases, that is a very sobering thought indeed. 5.30 pm Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): Ben Gummer: The hon. Gentleman has made a powerful Has not the Liberal position traditionally been to want point, but the public often have interests beyond the British Ministers to go naked into the conference chamber European Union. So far they have created a riot on of the EU? Does the hon. Gentleman agree that his and trade issues. I happen not to agree with what the rioters his colleagues’ Europhile tendencies contributed towards were doing or with their motives, but the matter raises the Liberals’ stunning success in coming sixth in the extreme passion among our constituents. Members know Barnsley by-election? perfectly well that we are regularly written to by people who are concerned about globalisation and world trade Martin Horwood: I am not sure that we have a party rules. Our negotiations in the Security Council are policy on nakedness in general—although I shall certainly another case in point. We as a nation are currently consult my colleagues on that. discussing Libya, a matter of considerable concern to I shall not detain the House long, but it seems clear our constituents. Perhaps we could have an understanding that the new clause would result in the undermining of of the Government’s negotiating position on that, so the British interest in terms of ministerial participation that we might study and better understand what the in negotiations. There may be measures that should be Government plan to do. introduced to add more transparency and openness to Our constituents have considerable concerns about the EU at Commission level, and certainly at Council of security matters with the United States, Commonwealth Ministers level, and I am sure that I, and Liberal allies and other partners. I have been written to far 807 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 808

[Ben Gummer] referendum was never granted. The purpose of this Bill is to ensure that such mendacity cannot be repeated. I more often about our security co-operation arrangements therefore propose that the new clause be advanced at a with other nations than about the European Union. later stage and on a wider basis, but I support the Here, too, it might be appropriate for the House to have broader purposes of the Bill. some sort of structure, such as that proposed by my hon. Friends the Members for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) Laura Sandys: Does my hon. Friend agree that taking and for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), whereby we that proposal forward and evolving it over the next might see what the Government propose, in anticipation couple of years and months must be done on a multilateral of their negotiating. basis, not a unilateral UK basis? In the matter of declaring war, the House had a cursory and temporary assessment of the merits of Ben Gummer: My hon. Friend makes an important conducting war against Iraq. It is shameful that even point, because it is patently obvious how difficult it is the papers relating to that cannot be released to the Iraq for the United States, our ally, to negotiate at the inquiry so that we might see the decision-making moments moment, following the unilateral release of its documents that happened in that most extraordinary and important to the world’s media, which was not its choice. If this is decision that the House and the Government have to be done, clearly it must be on a multilateral basis, taken in the past decade. especially with our key allies in the Commonwealth and Although I support the broad thrust of the new the United States, as well as those in Europe. clause, it would be more appropriate to consider all the I support the main aims of the Bill. I am greatly international organs and bodies on which we sit, and to attracted to the thrust of the new clause, but I suspect do so on the basis of a much wider consideration of the that it would have more power and greater reach if it constitutional powers that our Ministers wield when were advanced at a different stage and on a wider basis. they are negotiating and treating on our behalf. Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): I think my Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): I want hon. Friend is making a strong case for a full and wide to make a few brief remarks about what is, on the face review of the royal prerogative. Is that what he is of it, a very laudable new clause. It is proposed by a arguing for? number of Members whose reputations for seeking more openness in the transactions of government precede Ben Gummer: My right hon. Friend has expressed them. However, I hesitate to support it for several that with much greater concision than I have managed, reasons, many of which have been ably outlined by and embarrassed me in the process. other Members during the debate. In an intervention, There is so much concision in the new clause that it is my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford difficult to understand precisely what the proposers are and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) really got to the getting at. It says that the papers relating to the negotiations heart of one problem with the terminology used in the should be released new clause, particularly the word “relevant”, which is used in subsections (1) and (2). “during negotiation of the treaty or decision.” One of the proposers, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), related the negotiation of the may well have a point. He focuses on the word “relevant”, European working time directive and the fact that it but does he agree that the same arguments could be took from 1992 to 1999 to make that decision. At which used against the word “significance”, which is used point during that long negotiation would the papers throughout the Bill? relating to it be released to the House? If released after the negotiation had been concluded in 1999, would they have helped to understand the Government’s position Mr Buckland: I disagree, because I think that the in 1992? term used in the Bill in relation to significance is very well couched. It has been explained very carefully and is Ms Gisela Stuart: The release of the papers would backed up by a careful and clear text. There is a list in indeed have helped. The subsequent interpretation of the Bill of the particular aspects that will trigger a the working time directive and the detail of how it referendum. I am afraid that I do not think that our should operate by the Court of Justice would have points about those two words are analogous. made it clear that none of the Governments involved in The word “relevant”, which I am focusing on, causes the original negotiations had intended certain interpretations lawyers and all those with an interest in the law much to be made. That would have strengthened the House’s difficulty in a wide range of issues. For example, an hand in saying, “No, that’s not what was intended, even application for relevant documentation made before a by our Ministers.” criminal trial can cause much debate and argument on precisely what the term means. Frankly, I can see the Ben Gummer: The hon. Lady has clarified that beautifully. same thing happening with the new clause and the issue It argues for wider consideration of such issues in the going before the courts. In other words, I can see a kind of structure anticipated by my hon. Friends and judicial review of a particular laying of documentation the process in Finland that she described. by a Minister as part of the process, which again would There is a broader transparency that the House enjoys, make juridicable those issues that are properly dealt which is to put to the electorate a manifesto at the time with by this House. I do not think that that is the of elections. In the past 10 years a party has put forward intention of the Members who tabled the new clause, a manifesto proposing a referendum on the European but it would be an unfortunate and unforeseen consequence constitution, lately called the Lisbon treaty, yet that of the use of that terminology, because what is relevant 809 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 810 to one person will not be relevant to another. I can see a Ben Gummer: His excellent speech. long and exhaustive list of documents being laid before the House and yet more requests being made for further Mr Buckland: His excellent speech; I am happy to be documentation, which will then have to be ruled on by a corrected. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover made court. Those would be regrettable consequences that an important and helpful analogy between the negotiations none of us wants to see. that he as a lawyer would conduct on behalf of his Another main problem with this rather wide-ranging clients and the work of Ministers representing this new clause is the fact that not all the documents would country in the Council of Ministers and in other European be in the possession or ownership of the UK Government. institutions. He quite rightly said that it would be—I It is clear from the phrasing of the new clause that many paraphrase somewhat—rather absurd for him to be of the documents will have been drafted by either EU forced to reveal to his opponents his entire menu of officials or other member states. Therefore, they are not options during a negotiation. under the ownership or control of the UK Government; I adopt that analogy but take it one stage further: it they are what we call third-party documents. would be even more absurd for my hon. Friend, as a The new clause would therefore have a great impact lawyer justifying his decision to his clients, then to be on the position of other member states and the institutions forced to disclose not only the documents that he generated of the European Union. As we have heard, from my as a result of his negotiation, but the documents generated hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) by his opponents. That would potentially prejudice not in particular, other member states have their own procedures only his position but that of another party to the and ways of dealing with pre-negotiation positions, and negotiations. Indeed, I am sure that he took part in many are dealt with in secret. Are we to say that this negotiations with more than one party. House has a right to interfere directly with the procedures of other member states? 5.45 pm My hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills One can therefore see how the entire house of cards (Mr Shepherd), in his eloquent speech, said that what is comes tumbling down as regards the freedom to indulge for the Danes is a matter for them, but I am afraid that in a human negotiation. Let us face it, we are all the new clause would drive a coach and horses through human—we all know the constraints that can be placed that, because what is for the Danes would no longer be on us if we know that everything that we say and do is, a matter for them; it would become a matter for us. In as in this place, taken down and recorded. If negotiations effect, we would decide to disclose documentation that are to mean anything, there has to be an element of they, under their procedures, did not want formally freedom within which our elected Governments who disclosed, and that would have a consequence for our represent us on the European stage can conduct themselves. relations with other member states in the context of For all those reasons, I oppose what is otherwise a very freedom of information. well-intentioned new clause. Such a decision would also have a consequence for The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): This existing regulations on access to EU documents. The has been a genuinely interesting debate which—somewhat current regulations, to which this country is a signatory, unusually for European debates, dare I say it—has provide rights of access to documents held by EU developed in a way that I did not altogether anticipate. institutions, and with the consent of those institutions We started by discussing a new clause dealing with the documents can then be disclosed to the public. The transparency and public and parliamentary access to new clause would override and potentially conflict with information concerning European negotiations, but as that rule, and that is a problem—a practical difficulty— the debate continued it developed along the broader which makes questionable the fundamental deliverability theme of the adequacy or inadequacy of our current of the aims of the proposed change. We cannot legislate arrangements for the scrutiny of decisions taken by in a vacuum, and we cannot ignore the rules of other successive Governments of the United Kingdom on member states or the rules and regulations to which we behalf of Parliament and people within the institutions are a signatory. of the European Union. I thank all right hon. and hon. Ironically, in an attempt to assert the power of this Members who have taken part in the debate. House to scrutinise negotiation and legislation, we risk The key choice that has to be borne in mind in interfering directly with the domestic arrangements of considering the proposition put forward in the new other member states, and I am absolutely sure that clause tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere many who have spoken in today’s debate, who always (Mr Clappison) and the hon. Member for Birmingham, speak so eloquently about the rights of nation states in Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) concerns the most effective balance the European Union, would not want that to happen. between, on one hand, appropriate access to information I yield to no one in my fervent belief in transparency that provides the flexibility to allow citizens and other and openness. I believe fundamentally that some of the interested parties to see documents that contributed to previous Government’s conduct was a negation of policy making and, on the other hand, the need to democracy, and, if the European Union is to be sustained preserve a space for candid, confidential discussion, as an institution that is worthy of the trust and support deliberation and negotiation to ensure the best possible of not just its members but its peoples, much more must outcome in the interests of our country. I have sympathy be done to increase that transparency. for many of the arguments—certainly the motivations—of Finally, I also believe fundamentally that we have to the hon. Members who tabled the new clause, but I do be realistic and strike a balance between the interests of not think that it would deliver the right balance. I will openness and the interests of efficient and effective make my arguments in more detail in due course, but I negotiation. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover, in hope that at the end of the debate they will not press the his speech— motion to a Division. 811 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 812

[Mr David Lidington] keep the distinction between Parliament and Executive clearly in mind. Parliament’s role is to hold Ministers to I want to start by addressing some of the broader account for their decisions, not to take on the role of the issues that have been raised. The hon. Member for Minister. There is a strong case for saying to Parliament— Birmingham, Edgbaston said that we needed to know perhaps I should be more cautious and say suggesting when and how Ministers voted. Of course, one of the to Parliament—that rather than drowning parliamentarians changes introduced by Lisbon is that we have new rules in paperwork, about which the hon. Member for Linlithgow for the workings of the Council, including not only a and East Falkirk made a good point, Parliament and its public record but a public broadcast of the final Scrutiny Committees could seek to call Ministers before deliberations at a Council session on legislative dossiers. them, including in advance of Council decisions rather At that point, it is apparent how each member state has than necessarily waiting for the final version. voted, if indeed there is a formal division, and the arguments or the statement of position that the Minister Ms Gisela Stuart: Will the Minister say how he thinks or other representative of a member state chooses to the House can overcome the problem of collective put forward are also be made public. I have sat through memory? In Whitehall, there is collective memory within a number of those public sessions over the past 10 the Administration, and if there is a change of Government, months. I do not think that they will ever command a it is handed from one Administration to the next. mass audience on a Saturday evening. I am not aware Parliament has overcome the problem through successive that they have ever been broadcast as part of the regular Select Committees. However, if the knowledge is not in prime-time news bulletins in this country or any other Parliament, once an Administration are gone it has member state. no access. The new clause and many of the contributions to the debate have tried to get at how Parliament, on behalf of Mr Lidington: When speaking on behalf of the the public, can hold Ministers to account more effectively, Government, I must be careful not to presume to represent not just for that final, often rather formal, process of a collective Government position that does not yet taking a decision on live TV, but for how the negotiating exist, nor to pre-empt the views of parliamentarians position of the United Kingdom is shaped in the numerous from all parts of the House on the most appropriate bilateral contacts and contacts with European institutions method of scrutiny. that are undertaken by Ministers and officials, sometimes over many months. A number of ideas have been suggested. Mr Cash: The Minister is moving away from the My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) proposals put forward by the hon. Member for said that we need to look at the matter in the context Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) into a much deeper not only of the EU, but of our participation in other question, and I know that he is taking this opportunity international institutions and considering the use of to do so. As Chairman of the European Scrutiny royal prerogative powers more generally. Committee, I ask him to consider also that because the decisions made by the Council of Ministers are of a It is interesting that no hon. Member has mentioned legislative character and are binding on Parliament the House of Lords, which has distinct and different through section 2 of the European Communities Act 1972, scrutiny arrangements. There is a question for it is incumbent on him to consider the idea—in fact, to parliamentarians at both ends of this building as to implement it—that Parliament may decide to vote against what methods of scrutiny experience teaches us work proposals that have been cultivated by the Government best and most effectively. If Government and Parliament and to reject provisions that have been decided in the are to agree on new scrutiny arrangements, the position Council of Ministers. Perhaps the Minister can throw of both Houses will have to be taken into account. that point into the pool of his considerations.

Mr Cash: I am sure that the Minister would not want Mr Lidington: That is clearly already possible under to misrepresent the differences between the two Scrutiny our system if a European measure comes forward that Committees. I know he is aware that the House of requires primary or secondary legislation to transpose Lords has more generalised debates, whereas under our it into the law of the United Kingdom. It is up to the Standing Orders, our debates relate to particular legislative Government of the day, of whichever party or parties it documents. To align the two might be a bit of a mistake. is composed, to retain the confidence of Parliament and to persuade a majority in Parliament to endorse their Mr Lidington: That would be a matter for debate. I preferred approach. have heard dissatisfaction with the current scrutiny The hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston arrangements and a wish to explore the alternatives challenged me on the question of collective memory. from several Members from all parts of the House this The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk said afternoon. At the moment, we have a model in the that he regretted the switch from European Standing House of Commons and a model in the House of Committees with fixed memberships to European Lords. This business is done in various ways in other Committees with shifting memberships. I spent my first member states. Such a debate would take all those Parliament, among other things, doing duty on European approaches into account. Standing Committee A. There is no doubt that I learned The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk a great deal by virtue of that continuity, not least (Michael Connarty) and my hon. Friends the Members through the example of the late and great Gwyneth for Dover (Charlie Elphicke), for South Swindon Dunwoody on how to hold Ministers to account. She (Mr Buckland) and for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) used to deliver a master class in reading the documents talked more generally about how we could improve our in advance and picking out the weaknesses in the scrutiny arrangements. It seems to me that we need to Government’s argument. 813 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 814

Michael Connarty: I could share many happy memories Mr David: Before the Minister finally moves on, I of that lady turning up in Standing Committees of point out that I have been thinking long and hard about which she was not a member and holding Ministers to what to buy the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) for account because of her interest in the subject. Cross-border Christmas, and now I am going to buy him a drum kit. health care, for example, although not her speciality, I welcome the tone and content of the Minister’s was a cause célèbre for her. comments about having more scrutiny in the House. I compliment the previous Government and the present May I suggest to him that we really need to reinstate the Government for continuing to send draft Council twice-yearly debate about Europe before the Council conclusions to the European Scrutiny Committee. That meetings? Before he responds that that is an issue for is what a lot of Members, such as the hon. Member for the Backbench Business Committee, I once again implore Dover (Charlie Elphicke), have been talking about—actually him to ensure that Government time is provided for seeing the proposals that are before the Council before those debates. they are discussed in the Council. The difficulty is that they are “limité” documents and are therefore semi- Mr Lidington: I know that the hon. Gentleman has at confidential. If there was a method that allowed a least been consistent in pushing that line, but I have to Committee or group of people in Parliament to have remind him that his party, when it was in office, and all that responsibility—as is done in Denmark and Finland— other parties, agreed unanimously to changes to our and to interrogate the Minister on those documents, it procedures and the organisation of parliamentary time would be a great step forward. that explicitly gave responsibility for those biannual debates on European matters to the Backbench Business Mr Lidington: That is certainly an interesting suggestion. Committee rather than the Government. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his compliment. We have heard this afternoon about the importance We intend to continue the practice of supplying “limité” of decisions in the EU to everybody in the country, and documents whenever appropriate. it would be a good expression of Parliament’s understanding There is sometimes an issue about where the boundary of that point if Back Benchers of all parties put pressure of responsibility should lie between the European on the Backbench Business Committee to make a debate Scrutiny Committee and the various departmental on Europe a priority, instead of debates on the other Select Committees. If I have one reflection to offer from matters that the Committee has chosen in response to my experience in the 10 months that I have held my Back Benchers’ demands. Back Benchers’ priorities should responsibilities, it is that parliamentary debate on this be debated in Back-Bench time, and I believe that most country’s engagement with the EU tends to take place of us present this evening would like the Committee to in a metaphorical annexe. It is as though Parliament feel that a debate on Europe was what Back Benchers had constructed a separate, padded building, where the wanted. I hope the hon. Gentleman will persuade his equivalent of the teenagers with their drum kits could colleagues of that. get up to what they wanted. There is a serious question to be asked about whether our arrangements do justice Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am to the fact that the European decision-making and sure that we want to deal with new clause 1, and I am legislative process should now be regarded as part of sure the Minister recognises that he is drifting away from the mainstream of politics in the UK, rather than as the subject. He has been tempted all over the place, but something that can be relegated to an annexe. I am sure he will want to deal with what is before us.

Mr Lidington: I simply remind all hon. Members who 6pm want to take forward these wider arguments that I said Mr Cash: I would very much welcome the idea of in my written ministerial statement on scrutiny on having, for example, European questions in the House. 20 January, which referred mostly to justice and home I have many proposals that would make the system affairs, that the Government would more efficient. I remind my right hon. Friend of the “review the arrangements for engagement on EU issues in consultation current Home Secretary’s pamphlet, which recommended with Parliament.”—[Official Report, 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, not only that European Committees should have their c. 52WS.] proceedings properly advertised, but that if, for example, I invite them to take advantage of that opportunity. 150 Members decided that they wanted to have the I turn to the detail of new clause 1, which causes me matter in question debated on the Floor of the House, concern because it would result in the United Kingdom there should be a free vote on a motion to overturn a having a substantially different policy with regard to decision taken in the Council of Ministers, whether or information on EU decision making from that on domestic not the Government had approved the provision there. policy making. It would also represent a substantial Some of us would be more interested in the results of a impediment to the UK’s ability to negotiate effectively vote than in a mere discussion. in an intergovernmental conference, in the European Council and in the Council of Ministers. As a number Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Can we of Members have said, it could have a negative impact bring the debate back, please, to new clause 1? on our relationship with other member states and the EU institutions, and more generally on the process of Mr Lidington: I will try to bring this part of my good policy making and legislation. speech to a conclusion, Mr Deputy Speaker, by saying The negative effect on our ability to negotiate at the that this has been an interesting discussion of the Council of Ministers concerns me most. First, action to broader themes involved. We have heard allusions to comply with the statutory duty that the new clause various Scandinavian models of European scrutiny. would impose on Ministers could reveal sensitive 815 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 816

[Mr Lidington] Importantly, the proposed new clause does not specify in any way to what “relevant documentation” refers. information about the UK’s long-term negotiating approach That came up earlier in the debate. It is not clear, for in a number of areas. I do not believe it is sufficient example, whether “relevant documentation”covers so-called protection to say that the negotiations would be complete non-papers submitted by member states, which are intended or substantially complete by the time the documents to be “without prejudice” contributions to discussions. were made available, because it is very rare that negotiating Does it include Council working group documents that positions taken in respect of one piece of legislation do give the position in summary of each and every not have a read-across to positions on other matters member state on a particular issue? There could easily that will probably still be live dossiers when that legislation be widely diverging views on what comprises “relevant has been agreed to. documentation”. Secondly, complying with the new clause would mean That lack of clarity could also cause confusion in that our tactics in negotiations would have to take into relation to UK documents. Reference was made during account the duty to make negotiating positions on the debate to whether legal advice given to the Government proposed amendments public at a later stage. For example, would be required to be made available under the terms there are occasions on which we try to persuade other of the proposed new clause. If so, that would clearly member states to propose, or take the lead on, particular undermine the principle of legal professional privilege, amendments so that we can concentrate our time and the significance of which the Information Commissioner energy on different amendments that perhaps have less has generally recognised in the context of the Freedom widespread support. If a Minister knew that he might of Information Act. Governments need to receive free be criticised if it became public that he had not sponsored and frank legal advice without fearing that it must a particular amendment, that would constrain our be drafted in a form that is suitable for later public negotiating tactics and weaken our negotiating strategies. consumption. I quite understand that the proponents of the new Hon. Members may argue that we should try to use clause might want to see how a decision is made at EU the current renegotiation of the access to documents level and the details of what part the UK has played in regulation to implement the provisions of proposed that process, but I do not want any Ministers of any new clause 1, but that measure would take us a long way Government who are fighting for Britain’s interest in beyond what would be acceptable in terms of releasing future discussions and negotiations to be doing so with documents that are used at EU level for deliberations one hand tied behind their back. It is absolutely essential and decision making. The positions of other member to our national interest that Ministers can negotiate states in respect of the documents that they make effectively on behalf of our country. available to their Parliaments and public vary dramatically. Domestic regulations in several states lay out specific As a number of Members have said, including my criteria on which documents can and cannot be released. hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and Such criteria often allow for a great deal of discretion North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips), the new clause for Ministers or their officials, or impose strict limitations would also have implications for information that we on the type and origin of documents to be released. have on record about the positions of other member states. There is even a risk that its requirements could In some member states, the approach is to accept the put us in conflict with existing European legislation. As general principle that as much documentation as possible a member state of the EU, we are party to the terms of should be released, with the only limitations being the the access to documents regulation, article 5 of which prevention of harm, with harm often being defined in requires that when any member state intends to disclose terms of personal, legal or economic impact. a document originating from one of the EU institutions, it must consult that institution before public disclosure. Mr Cash: My right hon. Friend is expertly demonstrating If, under the new clause, we had to release a text the complete, total lack of democracy in the EU. If ever submitted at a Council working group that included a case needed to be framed and put in everybody’s loo, proposed amendments from each member state, and the it is this one. agreement of the Council as a whole had not been sought or obtained, we could potentially be at risk of infraction proceedings and ultimately a fine. As the new Mr Lidington: I look forward to visiting my hon. clause is drafted, it is quite possible that our obligations Friend and seeing the framed Hansard extract of my as an EU member state could be at odds with the argument. I could return the compliment by wallpapering statutory duty that the new clause would create. one of my rooms with the Hansard report of one of his speeches. Mr Cash: Has it not occurred to the Minister that if a Hon. Members referred to a number of EU member serious question of accountability arises as a consequence states in the debate. Denmark was cited more than once of what he just said, as it does, there is a simple remedy as the prime example of an open country, but the if we are sovereign in this House: we simply override the documents that the Danish Government must provide EU and tell it to get lost? to the European Affairs Committee of the Folketing do not include the positions of other member states or amendments that they have proposed, and nor are the Mr Lidington: The remedy that my hon. Friend seeks Danish Government required to provide documents can be obtained by Committees and the House being that have been prepared for their internal use, such as energetic in holding Ministers to account for the positions inter-ministerial correspondence. Even in Denmark, the that they take and for the way in which they agree to right of access is subject to limitations when protection whatever compromise is eventually negotiated. of, for example, public financial interests is essential. 817 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 818

6.15 pm to the House, and I will now be going to the Library to I could run through a list of other countries and cite seek out a copy of the European Union access to similar limitations and the categories of exemption that documents regulations—I certainly would not want to they choose to apply, but I will deny my hon. Friends fall foul of them, given what we have been told this and hon. Members that particular treat this evening. As afternoon. a matter of general principle, the most effective way to My right hon. Friend has approached the debate in operate in the EU is to build alliances and mutual trust the spirit of the new clause. I am sure that the hon. with other member states that share our objectives, or Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), in that we can persuade to do so. That would be undermined drafting the new clause, did not think that it was the by the approach embodied in proposed new clause 1. finished article. It was a plea for greater transparency, Many member states would, with good reason, be and I hope that it has been taken as such. Despite concerned if the British Government were under a possible problems with, for example, the phrase “relevant unilateral obligation to disclose documents relating to documentation”, what that might include, and what their positions in Council deliberations. Imagine the implications might flow from it, I hope at least that on reaction here if the Spanish or Slovenian Government the question of amendments proposed by a Government were to say, “Because our laws say so, we’re going to during treaty negotiations and treaty changes—that is make public your initial position on this proposal and what new clause 1 deals with—whether through the any detailed amendments that you have brought forward ordinary procedure or the new simplified revision procedure, whether you like or not, and regardless of whether you members of the public and the House will be told what were subsequently persuaded to accept a different amendments are being, and have been, proposed by the approach.” We must respect the sovereign rights of Government, so that we, and members of the public, those member states. Revealing confidential information can judge, in due course, the strength of the Government’s on other Governments’ amendments and negotiating position on what they ultimately recommend. We should positions would not enable us to forge the coalitions be told whether a Government have been consistent in that we need to defend our national interest, but would the amendments that they proposed and in what they make that considerably more difficult. subsequently recommend. Although I am sure that this is not the intention of I will give one example. I was struggling earlier to the supporters of new clause 1, one consequence of think of one, although I know that there are a lot of releasing Council deliberations routinely into the public them. During negotiations on the Lisbon treaty, Ministers domain would be to put it at a disadvantage with the in the then Government came to the House and advocated European Parliament under the ordinary legislative or a certain clause or course of action, but it was discovered co-decision procedures. If we want to maintain and that during the negotiations on the Convention they maximise British influence in the EU, we need to promote had advocated exactly the opposite. One prime example an effective and cohesive Council. It is not in the was the creation of the European “foreign ministry” Council’s interest to reveal to the European Parliament itself—the European External Action Service. During all details of its negotiations, including the balance of the debate, I have helpfully been told by the House of argument and how compromises are struck. I know that Commons Library that the then some in the European Parliament claim that their Committee meetings are open to the public and therefore “government’s amendments in the Convention to articles 1-27, that Council working groups should be similarly open, III-197.1 describe the term ‘Foreign Minister’ as ‘unacceptable’ but it is understood that often, the real negotiations in arguing that ‘he/she should have no ministry’. The government the European Parliament take place outside Committees—I preferred the term ‘EU external representative’.” am glancing over my shoulder at my hon. Friend the Well we have our external representative—or rather, Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris)—in corridors, our High Representative— but perhaps that phrase coffee bars and restaurants. conceals the fact that she is in reality a Foreign Minister, I see no merit in anything that encourages the Council and the office was originally intend as such. We also to move in the same direction, which I fear proposed have a European “foreign ministry” in the form of the new clause 1 does, and nor do I see merit in enacting a EEAS, even though the then Government did not want measure that would encourage people within the British it. They then had to come before the House, having Government, and perhaps within the Governments of apparently lost on that amendment, and argue from the other member states, not to commit their thoughts and Dispatch Box in favour of the creation of an external ideas to paper, but to conduct negotiations verbally or action service. The Minister will well remember, as I do, by Post-it notes that could easily be disposed of that on that occasion, Conservative Members opposed subsequently. its creation. In the light of developments since, and The very things that my hon. Friend the Member for what the public have come to learn and think about the Hertsmere denounced—decisions taken in secret and EEAS and its conduct, I am not sure that our arguments informal meetings arranged to fix a compromise in against it have been entirely disproved. But there we are. advance of a formal discussion—would be made more That is one example. likely and not less by new clause 1. For those reasons, I The new clause was a plea for transparency. However, cannot support it. I know that there are important matters still to come before the House, and I do not want to delay them by Mr Clappison: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend pressing the new clause to a vote. I beg to ask leave to the Minister for the care and attention that he has taken withdraw the motion. in answering this debate and for the manner in which he has done so. I am sure that it has been of great assistance Clause, by leave, withdrawn. 819 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 820

New Clause 2 Lord Justice Laws went on to set out his definition of a constitutional statute as opposed to an ordinary statute. PARLIAMENT ACT 1911 IN RELATION TO SECTIONS 1 TO In the Bills we pass, however, there is no such difference. 7 It is a distinction thought up by the courts, particularly to exempt the European Communities Act 1972 from ‘(1) The Parliament Act 1911 is amended as follows. implied repeal. As a matter of the most urgent constitutional (2) In section 2(1), after “five years” there is inserted “or a Bill principle, if there are to be two types of Act, it ought to amending or repealing sections 1 to 7 of the European Union be this House and the House of Lords who decide and Act 2011”.’.—(Jacob Rees-Mogg.) determine that, not the judges. The judges are there to Brought up, and read the First time. determine what we have said and rule on it, not to say that a new type—a whole new category—of law has Jacob Rees-Mogg: I beg to move, That the clause be been created. It seems to me that one of the ways the read a Second time. House could get round that is to make it clear when we The purpose of new clause 2 is to exempt most of the think that a Bill requires particular and special protection. Bill from the functioning of the Parliament Act 1911. Fortunately—because, as some hon. Members may know, That would mean that were a Government to attempt to I am a great believer in tradition—we have a precedent repeal it, they would have to do so with the consent of for that in the Parliament Act, which allows the House the House of Lords, without being able to re-present it of Lords to be overruled on everything, with the exception a year later and get it into law regardless. The new of a removal of a democratic right. The parallel with clause would give the same protection to the rights of the Bill is exact: it is a protection dealing with a the British people to vote in a referendum on European constitutional situation developed by the Lord Justice matters as exists concerning the length of a Parliament. Laws doctrine. It is one of the ironies of our constitutional system Martin Horwood: With the hon. Gentleman’s that the unelected Chamber has since 1911 been the combination of eloquence, erudition and traditionalism, final guardian of the democratic rights of the British he is well on the way to becoming a national treasure people. Since 1911, it has been impossible to lengthen a already. However, surely he would admit that he is really Parliament without the willing consent of the House of making a much better case for a written British constitution Lords. It is the one part of the Parliament Act that the making such a distinction, rather than for giving extended House of Commons cannot simply override. The last powers to the unelected Chamber as the guardian of extension of a Parliament came, I think, in 1944, as a democracy. That seems quite quirky, even by his standards. final extension—until the war had been completed—of the wartime Parliament. That principle clearly applies Jacob Rees-Mogg: I thank my hon. Friend for his to referendum Bills, which relate to a right of the British intervention, but I am afraid that he entirely misses the people to exercise their democratic choice that should point. In framing the new clause I have been working not be taken away from them lightly, and should be as within the confines of our unwritten constitution, using protected as anything within the constitution can be. the elements and protections that are already there, and It is worth mentioning—I hope that the Minister will extending them to the Bill. I absolutely accept that it is be interested in this point—that one criticism has been an irony of our constitution, as it already exists, that the made of the Bill by people who otherwise are sympathetic protection against a Parliament lengthening its own life to it. It is that an incoming Government who wanted to is an unelected Chamber a few yards down the way. push through the euro, or whatever, could simply repeal However, that is the situation in our constitution, and it this legislation and go ahead with what they wanted to is one that has been enormously effective for 100 years. do anyway. Quite rightly, no Act of a Parliament can bind its successors, but the Bill contains no protection Charlie Elphicke: Does my hon. Friend not agree that at all against a Government who do not want to follow his argument would have more force and credibility if it. Given that the whole purpose of the Bill is to protect the sunlight of democracy shone over the other end of the rights of the British people from further this building? Europeanisation, it would be extremely sensible to exempt it from the Parliament Act in order to strengthen it. 6.30 pm That would remove the one criticism made by people who are otherwise well disposed to the Bill. It would Jacob Rees-Mogg: If my hon. Friend were to reread make it a stronger Bill, and one more settled in our the Parliament Act 1911, he would see that it was constitutional situation. I think that many of us would introduced as an interim measure until the other place like to see that. was reformed and until such time as the basis for selecting its Members had been changed. Again, therefore, An important constitutional development is noted in I would say that my new clause is completely sympathetic volume 1 of the House of Commons European Scrutiny with the unreformed House of Lords, and as the 1911 Act Committee’s 10th report. It is a constitutional development itself says, it would be part of a bigger reform of the that should concern the House, and on which the House balance of powers between the two Houses if the House should use its powers to set its seal, as it sees fit. It is of Lords were to be reformed. essentially the Lord Justice Laws doctrine that came out of the metric martyrs case. He said: I do not wish to take up much time with my new clause. It proposes an extremely simple, straightforward “In the present state of its maturity the common law has come amendment: it serves the single purpose of making the to recognise that there exist rights which should properly be classified as constitutional or fundamental… And from this a Bill a little bit stronger, it uses a device already extant in further insight follows. We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts our constitution, and it preserves and protects the rights of Parliament: as it were “ordinary” and “constitutional” statutes. of the British people to have a referendum against The two categories must be distinguished on a principled basis.” something potentially malign. 821 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 822

Michael Connarty: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, significant constitutional importance, what we will do is whose speeches I always read, if not always hear. He is not entrench it—that is against the spirit of our very erudite and thoughtful in what he proposes, but constitution—but give it a modest protection by saying today he seems to be saying that this Bill should be that it can be repealed only with the full consent of both raised to a higher level than all the others passed by this Houses. The great advantage of that, for those of us House, apart from the European Communities Act 1972, who remember what happened prior to 1911, is that it which was given that status, which he opposes, by the would require a Government to win a general election—to courts. He is trying to put this Bill on a par with that go back to the people—before they could get something Act, and although he does not like the process whereby through the House of Lords, if the House of Lords said the courts allocate that status, he says that it should also no. That happened in 1911, with the reforms to the be allocated to this Bill, by this place. House of Lords, and in 1832, with the Great Reform Bill. That provision has been an historic and traditional Jacob Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman has half got way of protecting our democratic rights—one that, what I have been saying and has half misconstrued it. I oddly, involves the undemocratic Chamber—and that is do not think it right that laws passed by Parliament why I think it would improve the standing of this Bill. It should be put on a different level based on what judges would protect the democratic rights of the British people think of them retrospectively. I do not think that that is and deal with the constitutional situation as it is—as a democratic way of deciding which law is important the judges have developed it—rather than the constitutional and which is unimportant. One may think that the system as the hon. Gentleman and I might wish it to be. judges will always get it right, but what if they decided that the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 was amazingly Charlie Elphicke: It is not only an incredible privilege important and this Bill was not, so that the 1991 Act and honour to listen to the superb eloquence of my could not be impliedly repealed, but one giving people a hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset vote in a referendum could be? What I am saying is that (Jacob Rees-Mogg), but an even greater privilege and it is better for us to take this power upon ourselves and honour to follow him. Nevertheless, on this occasion I say, “Okay, this is an important Act. We’re going to put do not follow him in the sense of agreeing with the new that in, and say that it is exempt from the Parliament clause that he is propounding. I put it to him in an Act 1911.” intervention that it was ironic that he was seeking to use the unelected Chamber as the guardian of the people’s The hon. Gentleman asked a good question, which democracy. His answer was, “Well, look at the preamble is: why start with this particular Bill? The reasons for to the 1911 Act.” I was reminded of the dictum of St starting with this Bill are, first, that the judgment putting Augustine of Hippo, who, as I am sure he knows only the 1972 Act on to a higher plane is relatively recent, too well, said, “Make me pure, Lord—but not yet.” and secondly, that I was elected to Parliament only last May and have therefore not had the opportunity before Mr Binley: Will my hon. Friend give way? to propose such a measure on a major constitutional Bill, other than the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. The reasons for starting with this Bill are because of that Charlie Elphicke: In one moment. judgment, and because I am now in a position to do I do not think that it is an excuse to say that because this. It would have been a good thing to do earlier, on the House of Lords is partly reformed, we can give it a other constitutional Bills, including on devolution to role as the guardian of our democracy pending the Scotland. completion of that reform. Given that we have been racing towards the reform set out in the preamble to the Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby) (Lab): I am always 1911 Act for 100 years, it may take another 100 years to impressed by the hon. Gentleman’s displays of legal complete it—and given the way things carry on in this knowledge, but surely his whole point is spurious. The place, I suspect that we will indeed be waiting for judges’ argument is irrelevant and wrong: there is no 100 years to come. distinction between some laws passed by Parliament and others. We cannot say that some are constitutional Jacob Rees-Mogg: I thank my hon. Friend for giving and others are not. That distinction does not exist: they way, but I just wonder whether he thinks the House of are all of equal standing. The point that he is trying to Lords has done a bad job since 1911 in the one area in make is also irrelevant, because he is appealing to a which it is exempt from the 1911 Act—that is, in defending constitution that does not exist. Essentially, the British the right of the British people to have an election at constitution is what Governments can get away with, least every five years? and they get away with it in this place. Charlie Elphicke: I do not decry the role of the House of Lords, the excellence of their lordships, the work that Jacob Rees-Mogg: I so wish that the hon. Gentleman, they do, their courage or the passion with which they who is a most distinguished Eurosceptic, were right, but advance their cases. Indeed, it is often said that the unfortunately the judges have taken that power to debates held in their lordships’ House are far more themselves. I return to what Lord Justice Laws said in informed, considered, interesting and informative than his judgment on the metric martyrs case: our debates in this House. Having been in this place and “Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional not that place, I cannot compare the two. Nevertheless, statutes may not.” it is a dangerous principle to say, “Let’s include a The judges have set up for themselves two different provision in the Parliament Act to say that the House of types of Act. It seems to me that we should claim that Lords should be not only the guardian of five-year power back for the democratically elected Chamber of Parliaments but the guardian of this Bill, to protect it Parliament, and say that when we think an Act is of from being altered.” 823 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 824

[Charlie Elphicke] the new clause is flawed. He suggested that the evidence that we had received—he kept referring to Lord Justice I would have much more faith in the proposal if Laws’ ruling—was correct, but we received evidence reform of the House of Lords had been completed— from many other people that it was incorrect. It was something that I hope will come to pass. One of the suggested that we could not establish two tiers of laws problems that I have with the House of Lords is not the just because a judge decided to make a remark in court, people in it or their mental ability—many of them are and that all laws, including the European Communities excellent people and their mental ability is far superior Act 1972, stand the same and can have implied amendment to mine—but my concern that they do not hold a and repeal. democratic mandate. It is an important principle that If Parliament decided to pass a law here that was where we have representatives in our legislature, they contrary to a ruling, directive or regulation of the should have a mandate from the people. I guess it is European Union, it would still stand as a law. The because I am a Lincolnian politician—I believe in dilemma would then be whether the European Court of government for the people, by the people, of the people— Justice would have the right to overrule that decision or that I believe that the sunshine of democracy should whether we would press on our courts our decision in permeate our entire legislature, and not just this House. the new Act, which would cause a judgment to be called I admit to some radicalism in my thinking on such for in the European Court. If no one called for such a matters, but I believe it is important that all our politicians judgment on an Act that we had passed contrary to a should be elected and have a democratic mandate. regulation or directive of the European Union, it would continue to apply. It would not be knocked down, and Mr Cash: Will my hon. Friend turn his mind to this no penalties would be imposed on the UK, unless radical thought? If the House of Lords were to become someone called for the European Court of Justice to an elected Chamber, it would not make the slightest bit make a judgment on that new Act. So it was nonsense of difference in respect of the argument that he is to suggest that in 1972 we had suddenly created an Act presenting, because the Parliament Act would remain that was incapable of implied repeal or amendment. on the statute book. The argument that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) Jacob Rees-Mogg: The evidence that we received has put forward would also apply to an elected House. focused on the “notwithstanding” approach—that is, The question, in a nutshell, is one of judicial supremacy, that one could not accidentally repeal, or move, an Act which is why I strongly support what my hon. Friend that was contrary to the 1972 Act; one would have to do the Member for North East Somerset has been saying. it explicitly. That is different from most other Acts of Parliament that can impliedly be repealed. This is where Charlie Elphicke: I take the view that this will be an we come back to Lord Justice Laws’ judgment, which important Act. It will introduce a referendum lock to has been de facto accepted. ensure that we do not get dragged further into the European Union without consulting the British people. 6.45 pm Inevitably, because Parliament is sovereign, it would be able to unravel the Act, to repeal it and to take away the Michael Connarty: Just to remind everyone who reads people’s right to have a say in a referendum. That is the these tomes, the 1972 Act embodied a decision by this right of Parliament, but I do not agree with the argument Parliament that laws, directives and regulations drawn for entrenching it to the same extent as the Parliament up by the European Union should take primacy over an Act, as is suggested in the new clause. The Parliament Act covering the same area passed by this Parliament. It Act is an entrenchment of our basic right not to have was our decision to use our sovereignty to give that our democracy stolen from us. I would not place this primacy as part of the deal of going into the European legislation on that same lofty plane. It is important that Union. Acts of Parliament should be able to be changed or My understanding of the evidence is that if we passed repealed by a sovereign Parliament. The political issue an Act that did not contain a “notwithstanding” clause is that any person or party that repeals an Act such as or set out to be a deliberate challenge, and that simply this will reap the whirlwind from the electorate. I am put in place a law that we wished to have, it would have happy that we are able to pass and repeal Acts, and that to be challenged and taken to the European Court of the electorate should have the final say at an election, at Justice before it created any conflict. So the question is: which point they can condemn any such behaviour. I do we accept that that was right and that the judges shall now give way to my hon. Friend the Member for have the right to do that? Northampton South (Mr Binley). I suggest that if the hon. Member for North East Somerset genuinely wishes to see that change, he should Mr Binley: I have no wish to ask you a question. not apply to the good offices of the 1911 Parliament Act. I agree with the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Can Elphicke) that it is wrong that we should appeal to an we conduct the debate through the Chair, please? undemocratic institution. I believe that we should look to a justice Act of some kind to determine that judges Charlie Elphicke: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I cannot make such a ruling or decide that there are two conclude my remarks. kinds of laws in this country. Some people think that the European Union takes up a lot of time, but I think Michael Connarty: First, may I compliment the hon. that the more important laws are those that will determine Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) what is going to happen to people’s pensions in this on the eloquence both of the construction of his new country or to their employment rights. I hope that the clause and of his delivery in arguing for it? I believe that hon. Member for North East Somerset will come back 825 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 826 to the House with a justice proposal, which I would be so long as we have a second Chamber, the House of happy to support, saying that the courts cannot make a Lords will be the House of Lords—irrespective of whether ruling that overrules the right of this democratic Chamber it is elected. to decide the law of this land. The question of constitutional statutes has been introduced as a notion, but it is not intrinsic to the Austin Mitchell: I am trying to follow the argument, argument. What is essential is to ensure that we do not but, being a European argument, it is very difficult to allow the Supreme Court to adjudicate over and above follow. Surely the situation is that if we pass a law that the decisions taken by our Parliament. That is the key negates the implementation of a European Union law issue. Some futile commentators—and, if I may say so, in this country, our courts would have to accept the some Members of this House—mislead themselves from European Union law rather than ours. We could not time to time by suggesting that sovereignty is not such pass such a law unless we specifically exempted it from an important issue. The reason for its importance is the European Communities Act 1972. very simple: we Members are elected to make decisions, and all the other issues, such as dealing with burdens on Michael Connarty: My hon. Friend’s point is correct, business and so forth, stem from that. That explains my but that is not what we are talking about. He describes a view of the European Union, which is that, where situation in which this or any Government decided to necessary, the sovereign Parliament should override challenge the original decision. A law could be passed through the “notwithstanding” formula to which my that would continue to run contrary to European Union hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset law; I believe that that is happening in many countries. rightly referred and which I have employed on a number We and the Norwegians are the most obsessed with of occasions when I have been supported by Conservative trying to get everything right in terms of fitting in with Front-Bench Members—for example, when we were in European directives. A challenge could be made, however, opposition and with respect to the Legislative and and we would then have to decide whether it was right Regulatory Reform Act 2006, and on other occasions. for us to negotiate a change in the relationship or to abandon our law and accept the ruling of the European What we need to insist on above all—it cropped up in Union. At the moment, that does not happen. the previous debate—is that this House on behalf of the electorate represents the democratic process whereby My main point is that we in this democratically we are voted in to make decisions. We must insist on elected Chamber can overturn these decisions at any that at the expense of judicial supremacy. Even though I time if we have the will to do so. We are not bound by am the first to say that it is for the courts to interpret them for ever. Like any other law, we will be able to legislation, it is not for them to make it. That is the challenge this legislation in this Chamber, which is why fundamental point. I thoroughly endorse both the I do not believe that we have to go through the rather sentiments and the wording of the new clause. tortuous, although eloquently described, process of applying an amendment to the Parliament Act 1911. Mr Lidington: I thank my hon. Friend the Member On the ability of the Lords to protect us from changes for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg),who I to our democracy, they have not protected us from this know takes a strong interest in these important shabby coalition, which is proposing a law that would constitutional issues—and he is right to do so. Our guarantee that the coalition would run for five years—a short debate has allowed him and other hon. Members proposal that I spoke against in the first debate in this to seek a means to entrench the Bill once it reaches the place after the election—unless the shabby minority statute book, and to protect it from future attempts at part of that shabby coalition, the Liberal Democrats, repeal. At the same time, the new clause has been decide to pull it down, because no other person in this drafted in such a way as to permit my hon. Friend the place could do that. If the Lords could protect us from opportunity to raise broader constitutional questions that, I might have more confidence in the 1911 Act. about the ultimate authority to take decisions and whether that should lie with Parliament or with the Mr Cash: I should like to endorse the general thrust judiciary. My hon. Friend cited in particular the leading of the new clause tabled by my hon. Friend the Member judgment of Lord Justice Laws, which has been quoted for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), although on many occasions during our proceedings on theBill. I must qualify that slightly by saying that I do not take I am afraid, however, that although I agree with the view that there is a difference between different much of the sentiment that underpins the new clause, I types of statute. However, that does not make a material cannot support the new clause for reasons that I shall difference to the thrust of his argument, which is that shortly provide. Let me first explain a little about the we must at all costs preserve the right of this House Government’s interpretation of the new clause and its ultimately to make the decisions. Indeed, in the 1870s—it effect. It would introduce a new category of Bill, which might have been earlier—the statesman John Bright put could not be passed under the procedure provided by forward the proposition that led to the Parliament section 2 of the Parliament Act 1911. Act 1911, some 30 years before it was implemented, As all hon. Members will be aware, section 2 of the precisely because he did not believe in privilege, in Parliament Act 1911 makes provision under which most aristocracy or in the House of Lords as it was then public Bills can be enacted ultimately without the approval constituted. of the House of Lords. There are, however, two exceptions The reality is that we can achieve the objectives by to the general rule. The first relates to money Bills, adopting the new clause without necessarily accepting which have their own procedure under section 1 of the that the House of Lords could not become an elected Parliament Act. The second exception is for what that body if that were the view of this House in due course. I Act terms do not accept the proposition put forward by my hon. “a Bill containing any provision to extend the maximum duration Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) because of Parliament beyond five years”. 827 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 828

[Mr Lidington] relationship by expanding the relative powers of the House of Lords. It has never been part of the Government’s Under the new clause, there would be a third exception: intentions for this Bill that it should be used to alter that namely, any Bill that sought to amend or repeal what relationship. would be provided for in sections 1 to 7 of the European Union Act 2011, which this Bill will become if Parliament Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my right hon. agrees to its passing. In practice, this would mean that Friend, not only for giving way but for taking the new the legislation could not be either repealed or amended clause so seriously, but I must say to him that the Bill in respect of those sections without the express consent does not really extend the powers of the House of of the House of Lords. Lords and is not a new category of Act. Both it and the I hope it goes without saying that I fully support the existing protection under the 1911 Act refer exclusively political intention of the new clause to help to ensure to the voting rights of the British people, which is why I that the Act remains on the statute book for a long time think that they are exactly the same. to come. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said on Second Reading, the Government believe that 7pm the Bill should become “part of the accepted constitutional framework of this country”.— Mr Lidington: I hear my hon. Friend’s argument, but [Official Report, 7 December 2010; Vol. 520, c. 197.] I could quite easily construct another argument. We It is right to point out, however, that the Parliament have enacted other pieces of legislation in recent decades Act 1911 has been amended only once, in 1949. Since which are of great constitutional significance, which then, Parliament has not considered it appropriate to touch on the franchise—for example, the decision by, I single out any other pieces of legislation—for example, believe, the Heath Government to lower the voting age the Acts of Parliament passed to provide for Scottish, from 21 to 18—and which could have been deemed to Welsh and Northern Irish devolution, the Constitutional fall into a comparable category and to deserve equivalent Reform and Governance Act 2010 or, indeed, the European protection. Communities Act 1972—for similar special status. Even This evening my hon. Friend is making a second enthusiastic supporters of the Bill would find it difficult attempt to persuade Parliament of the case for his to argue that this piece of legislation should be singled proposal. A short while ago, he tabled an amendment to out in this particular way, which is denied to other items the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill that was very similar to of legislation that might generally be accepted to have this new clause. Indeed, it may have been identically important constitutional significance. worded. At the time the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean Mr Cash: Even if my right hon. Friend were right in (Mr Harper), expressed a view to which the Government his general assertions about elements of the Bill, the and I subscribe. The rules governing the relationship implications of clause 18, as the European Scrutiny between this House and the other place, as laid down in Committee report made clear, puts it into a very special section 2 of the 1911 Act, have been in place for some category. Despite our attempts to amend that clause, time, and we do not intend to start changing that which were sadly and tragically defeated, the fact remains relationship. that clause 18 makes a very significant change to this I suggest to my hon. Friend the Member for North country’s constitutional arrangements. For that reason, East Somerset that the political problem and the the Bill should indeed be put into a different category. constitutional challenge that he has identified in the Mr Lidington: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for House of Lords judgment, namely the evolution within acknowledging the importance of clause 18. We had a the jurisprudence of the United Kingdom courts of the full day’s debate on that clause at the start of our idea of a distinct category of constitutional statutes Committee proceedings, but I rather think that you which have a special status and which, in particular, would warn me, Mr Hoyle, against recapitulating that cannot be impliedly repealed, should perhaps be addressed debate this evening. It is hard to imagine why a future in the context of a more general proposal for constitutional Parliament would choose to repeal this Act, thereby reform. As my hon. Friend knows, my right hon. Friend abolishing the referendum lock and the enhanced control the Deputy Prime Minister is considering the issue of and scrutiny that the Bill provides for Parliament and possible reforms of the House of Lords. The best the British people. It would incur a high political cost course may be for my hon. Friend to make representations for any Government who brought forward such a measure to the Deputy Prime Minister as he considers what is and, indeed, for individual Members of Parliament the right way in which to proceed. who were prepared to walk through the Lobbies in its During one of the debates on the Fixed-term Parliaments support. Bill, my hon. Friend said: It is an important part of this Government’s commitment “Our constitution should be safeguarded and preserved; it is to rebuilding trust with the British people to make clear not something that should be treated lightly or in an airy-fairy what the future arrangements should be. Although it is fashion”.—[Official Report, 18 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 708.] always possible that a future Government will decide to I strongly agree with the sentiment that he expressed. act differently, I find it hard to imagine that any such That is why it is so important for the House to scrutinise future Government would be able to defend taking thoroughly the issues raised by his proposal, and that is away from the British people the right to have their say why I have considered it so carefully. about further changes to the European treaties. I welcome the scrutiny that the proposal has undergone, I have further concerns about the impact of the new both this evening and during consideration of the Fixed- clause on the long-standing relationship between this term Parliaments Bill. However, for the reasons I have House and the House of Lords. It would alter the given, I do not accept that the new clause is an appropriate 829 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 830 way for us to achieve our shared intention. Following (a) the draft decision is approved by Act of Parliament, the debate on my hon. Friend’s similar amendment to and the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill, he withdrew the (b) the referendum condition is met. amendment. I sincerely hope that, having heard my (2) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2), arguments this evening, he will be prepared to withdraw with references to a decision being read for the purposes of his new clause. subsection (1) as references to a draft decision. (3) Subject to subsection (6), subsection (1) applies to a Jacob Rees-Mogg: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the decision under Article 312(2) of TFEU to adopt a regulation motion. laying down the first multiannual financial framework of the European Union for the period following 2013, where that Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn. multiannual financial framework would include— (a) an initial annual ceiling on total EU payment appropriations that was higher than the ceiling on total EU payment New Clause 3 appropriations for 2013 in the multiannual financial framework covering 2013, taking account of an DECISIONS SUBJECT TO SPECIAL REFERRAL PROCEDURE adjustment of the 2013 ceiling for inflation, IN TFEU (b) subsequent annual ceilings on total EU payment appropriations, some or all of which increased from ‘(1) A Minister of the Crown may not permit the United the previous year, or could increase from the previous Kingdom’s participation in the final adoption of a decision to year without revision of the multiannual financial which this subsection applies unless subsection (3) or (4) is framework through the procedure laid down in Article complied with in relation to the draft decision. 312(2) of TFEU, by more than an adjustment for (2) The decisions to which subsection (1) applies are— inflation, (a) a decision under the provision of Article 48 of TFEU (c) an initial annual ceiling on total EU commitment that permits the adoption of legislative acts in the appropriations that was not lower than the ceiling on field of social security; total EU commitment appropriations for 2013 in the (b) a decision under the provision of Article 82(2) of multiannual financial framework covering 2013, taking TFEU that permits the adoption of directives establishing account of an adjustment of the 2013 ceiling for minimum rules in criminal procedure, unless the decision inflation, or falls under section 9(4); (d) subsequent annual ceilings on total EU commitment (c) a decision under the provision of Article 83(1) of appropriations, some or all of which were at least as TFEU that permits the adoption of directives establishing high as the previous year’s ceiling adjusted for inflation, minimum rules concerning the definition of criminal or could be at least as high as the previous year’s offences and sanctions, unless the decision falls under ceiling adjusted for inflation without revision of the section 9(4); multiannual financial framework through the procedure laid down in Article 312(2) of TFEU. (d) a decision under the provision of Article 83(2) of TFEU that permits the adoption of directives (4) For the purposes of subsection (3), the only relevant establishing minimum rules concerning the definition adjustments for inflation are those used by the EU for the figures of criminal offences and sanctions. involved. (3) This subsection is complied with if— (5) Subject to subsection (6), subsection (1) also applies to a decision under Article 312(2) of TFEU to adopt a regulation (a) a draft decision is before the Council, revising the first multiannual financial framework of the European (b) in each House of Parliament a Minister of the Crown Union for the period following 2013, where that regulation would moves a motion that the House does not believe the cause the multiannual financial framework to include provision United Kingdom should request the referral of a identified in subsection (3) when the framework had not done so specified draft decision to the European Council before. under the provision of Article 48 of TFEU, Article (6) Inclusion of provision to enable EU payment or commitment 82(3) of TFEU or Article 83(3) of TFEU, as the case appropriations to be reallocated between the annual ceilings of may be, providing for such a request, and the same type of appropriation in a multiannual financial framework (c) each House agrees to the motion without amendment. does not of itself cause a regulation laying down or revising a (4) This subsection is complied with if— multiannual financial framework to fall under subsection (1).’. (a) a draft decision is before the European Council, New clause 5—Certain decisions under Article 311 of (b) in each House of Parliament a Minister of the Crown TFEU moves a motion that the House approves Her Majesty’s ‘(1) A Minister of the Crown may not confirm the approval by Government’s intention to support the referral of a the United Kingdom of a decision to which this subsection specified draft decision back to the Council, and applies unless— (c) each House agrees to the motion without (a) the decision is approved by Act of Parliament, and amendment.’.—(Chris Heaton-Harris.) (b) the referendum condition or the exemption condition Brought up, and read the First time. is met. (2) Subsection (1) applies to a decision under the third Chris Heaton-Harris: I beg to move, That the clause paragraph of Article 311 of TFEU to adopt a decision laying be read a Second time. down provisions relating to the system of own resources of the European Union, where the decision adopted contains provision for payment to the EU as own resources, without the need for a Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it further decision under the third paragraph of Article 311 of will be convenient to discuss the following: TFEU, of some or all of the revenues from a tax or other levy on New clause 4—Certain decisions under Article 312 of natural or non-State legal persons that is established or which TFEU requiring approval by Act and by referendum may be established by EU law (including by that decision). ‘(1) A Minister of the Crown may not vote in favour of or (3) The referendum condition is that set out in section 3(2). otherwise support a decision to which this subsection applies (4) Subject to subsection (5), the exemption condition is that unless— the Act providing for the approval of the decision states that— 831 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 832

(a) under the provisions relating to the system of own Chris Heaton-Harris: I should begin by apologising resources of the European Union in force at that to the House for being so keen to table a number of new time, revenues from the tax or other levy referred to clauses and amendments at this late stage. It is not as if in subsection (2), or from a tax or other levy that is there is anything better going on in my life. It is not that very similar and which is established or may be established by EU law, are already paid in whole or Arsenal are playing Barcelona tonight, and I could have part to the EU as own resources or may be paid in been watching that. Actually, as a referee I do not like whole or part to the EU as own resources without a Arsenal that much, but I could have been refereeing the further decision under the third paragraph of Article football game between the Press Lobby against the 311 of TFEU, and Crown Prosecution Service—and I have a family, and (b) the adopted decision to which the decision relates does there is a dinner that I could have gone too. not contain provision that is likely to require or allow a significant increase in the amount or proportion of However, I did want to point out to the Minister that revenue obtained in the United Kingdom in any one there are some fairly big gaps in the Bill, which came to year from the tax or other levy referred to in subsection my notice rather later than they should have. New (2) that is or may be paid to the EU as own resources, clause 3 concerns the emergency brake, especially in the compared to that required or allowed by the provisions context of criminal justice matters. New clause 4 concerns relating to the system of own resources of the European the post-2013 financial framework. New clause 5 concerns Union in force at that time. own resources decisions and EU taxes. I have also (5) Where a statement as per subsection 4(a) is made that tabled a range of complementary amendments. revenues from a very similar tax or other levy to the tax or other levy referred to in subsection (2) are or may already be paid in New clause 3 deserves some explanation. Certain whole or part to the EU as own resources, the statement for the European laws proposed under the treaty on the functioning purposes of subsection 4(b) may state that the adopted decision of the European Union are subject to the emergency to which the decision relates does not contain provision that is brake procedure. Such proposals are adopted by qualified likely to require or allow to be paid to the EU as own resources majority voting in the Council, and relate to social an amount or proportion of revenue obtained in the United Kingdom in any one year from the tax or other levy referred to in security and procedural and substantive criminal law. subsection (2) that is significantly greater than the amount or When an EU law on social security is proposed under proportion of revenue obtained in the United Kingdom in any article 48 of the TFEU, a member state can declare that one year from the very similar tax or other levy required or the proposal allowed to be paid to the EU as own resources by the provisions relating to the system of own resources of the European Union “would affect important aspects of its social security system, in force at that time.’. including its scope, cost or financial structure, or would affect the financial balance of that system”, Amendment 1, page 4, line 8, clause 4, at end insert ‘except where any such provision substantially affects all or any of and, having done so, can request that the proposal be the political, economic, fiscal, social or constitutional relationship referred to the European Council. The proposal is then between the United Kingdom and other Member States of the so referred, and the Council suspends its consideration European Union.’. of the measure. Amendment 6, page 4, line 43, clause 6, at end insert— When an EU law on procedural or substantive criminal law is proposed under article 82(2) or article 83 and a ‘(2A) A Minister of the Crown may not confirm the approval member state considers that the proposal by the United Kingdom of a decision under the provision of Article 218(8) of TFEU for the accession of the European Union “would affect fundamental aspects of its criminal justice system”, to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms in accordance with Article 6(2) of that member state may request that the proposal be TEU unless— referred to the European Council. The proposal is then (a) the decision is approved by Act of Parliament, and so referred, and the Council suspends its consideration of the measure. A member state’s ability to stop the (b) the referendum condition is met.’. adoption of a proposal subject to qualified majority Amendment 8, page 6, line 21, clause 7, after ‘Union’, voting in that way is known as the emergency brake. insert After the proposal has been referred to the European ‘, unless the decision falls under section (Certain decisions under Article 311 of TFEU)’. Council, the Council may refer the proposal back to the other Council, which then resumes consideration of the Amendment 7, page 6, line 39, at end add— measure, taking decisions by qualified majority voting. ‘(da) a decision under Article 312(2) of TFEU to adopt a However, there must be a consensus in the European regulation laying down or revising the multiannual Council for the proposal to be referred back. That financial framework of the European Union, unless means that any member state can block the proposal. the decision falls under section (Certain decisions Under United Kingdom law, the decision on whether to under Article 312 of TFEU requiring approval by Act and by referendum).’. invoke the emergency brake lies solely with the Government. Parliament cannot insist that this happen, and the Bill, Amendment 4, page 8, line 22, clause 9, at end insert— alas, will not change that. In contrast, the German ‘(4A) For decisions under a provision falling within either Parliament can oblige the German Government to press paragraph (b) or (c) of subsection (2) that are subject to qualified the emergency brake on any of those matters. New majority voting, otherwise supporting a decision includes, for the clause 3 would cover all EU proposals subject to the purposes of subsection (4), permitting the United Kingdom’s emergency brake except for the proposals that would participation in the final adoption of a decision.’. fall under clause 9(4) of the Bill. It would, however, Government amendment 3. require the final draft of the proposals to go before Amendment 5, page 9, line 3, clause 10, leave out both Houses of Parliament, either of which could require subsection (2). that the emergency brake be pressed. 833 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 834

Back in January, in response to a letter that I had sent to which we are giving powers might be doing with dealing with various aspects of the Bill, my hon. Friend them. I would like the Minister to reiterate the comments the Minister for Europe wrote to me that there was I have heard from his officials about the emergency nothing to prevent a member state from pressing the brake and new clause 4 possibly not being needed. emergency brake repeatedly on a proposal. That means that, should Parliament remain dissatisfied with the Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con): proposal after it has been referred to the Council by the Why has my hon. Friend chosen to put a veto in the European Council following a use of the emergency hands of the other place? I can understand why the brake, Parliament could insist that the brake be pressed matter might be subject to a vote of this House, but why again. also to a vote in the other place? Subsection (4) of new clause 3 is intended to Chris Heaton-Harris: Well, that sounded better to me accommodate the possible scenario in which the European when I was writing it down. It seemed perfectly logical Council seeks to come to a consensus on a final draft of for this to be a matter for both Houses, and the other the proposal, which would be referred back to the place does scrutinise European matters, as we have Council for formal adoption straight away. It seems to discussed. It has a depth of expertise on European make sense that the Government should be able to ask matters, although it might be completely wrong in its Parliament at that point whether the final proposal is conclusions. acceptable, rather than the Government’s simply agreeing to refer it back to the Council and not insisting that the Jacob Rees-Mogg: The House of Lords has an absolute emergency brake be triggered. veto on statutory instruments and many other things. It is only legislation introduced in the House of Commons I have been discussing new clause 4 with the Minister’s on which the Lords does not have a veto. It would officials, and have been told that its provisions are therefore have been illogical to have excluded it. probably covered in the Bill. A handful of proposals subject to the emergency brake would appear to be Chris Heaton-Harris: I could not have put it better covered by the Clause 9(4). I would appreciate the myself. Minister’s confirming that, at the end of a convoluted Moving swiftly on, new clause 4 addresses the post-2013 process—during which the British Government might financial framework. We are about to enter into very know that a proposal under QMV is to be adopted so important negotiations about how much money we give they do not vote for it or abstain, but vote against—we to the European institutions over the next financial in this Parliament could still have our foot firmly on the framework—that for 2014 to 2020. We have had many emergency brake. assurances from the Government that they will seek a very tough settlement, and I thought it would be wise to Steve Baker: I admire my hon. Friend’s tenacity, but I encapsulate in a new clause this Parliament’s view of a am only a simple engineer, so may I confirm that he has tough settlement. I thought it might be a good idea to said that this House is unable to assert its sovereignty in spell out the situation if we do not get a freeze on the relation to criminal justice? amount of money we are spending per year in that Chris Heaton-Harris: I was not asserting that, although financial framework at EU level—or indeed a cut, which we have given away lots of justice and home affairs I hope we might be angling for. I wanted to make it powers, and I do not think many Members or many of clear that if we failed miserably in our negotiations and the British people fully appreciate how much we have had to accept—perhaps for reasons of diplomacy, as I potentially given away. This is an important point. am unsure whether we would have to accept this as we Although the Bill has many problems, the referendum have a veto on these matters—a rise in the amount of lock would ensure that we do not go down such a route money that could be spent in that financial framework, in respect of the European public prosecutor and other that would also become part of the Bill. In fact, I would matters to do with the criminal justice system. The like that to be put to a referendum so that people can measure I am talking about came in under the Lisbon vote on whether we should give a lot more money to treaty. No country has pressed the emergency brake yet. institutions that we do not completely trust. That is the I would like to think that the Government would trust main purpose of new clause 4. I hope its being moved Parliament sufficiently for Parliament to have its foot will give the Minister another chance to state on the on that brake, rather than for the Government alone to record exactly what our position will be going into have their foot on it. negotiations on the financial framework post-2013. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I find the hon. 7.15 pm Gentleman’s arguments very persuasive. At least we, as New clause 5 addresses a concern that many people well as Germany, could stand up and be counted. If it is share. In September, the President of the European good enough for the Germans, it should be good enough Commission, President Barroso, started reigniting the for us. I would like such a provision very much indeed, flame on what is called in Europe own resources decisions, but is not the worry for our Government in particular but which is essentially a European tax. I strongly that our Parliament is especially likely to exercise that believe that any tax imposed at the European level power over Ministers going to the European Council? Is should be subject to a vote of the British people. That is not their concern that we might actually exercise our not only a massive transfer of sovereignty, but it changes right to put our foot on the brake? a fundamental relationship between us and the EU. Chris Heaton-Harris: Quite possibly, but that is the Steve Baker: Does my hon. Friend not agree, however, essence of democracy, and one of the reasons we were that the fact of the situation in which we find ourselves put here in the first place is to keep check if not on what is that the British people have no say about their EU our own Government are doing, at least on what institutions budget contribution? 835 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 836

Chris Heaton-Harris: Well, they do have a say through come to this country to work, they get all the benefits the Government they elect, and the Government do required under our social security legislation—tax credits, negotiate these things in the multi-annual packages. As child tax credits and so on—which they often send back I said in debate on a previous new clause, this is one way home. They also often end up with a council house, of making sure that if the Government decided it was because they then bring their family to this country and practical for us to have a rise in the amount of money live in overcrowded conditions, and they leave their being spent in the European institutions, the people house back there being paid for by the British taxpayer. would have a say on how much it would be. I accept that All those things might have been examined seriously if own resources is covered in some ways in the Bill, but I we had had a provision such as new clause 5 to deal thought I would phrase the new clause in such a way with how social security would transfer. that it would give the Minister a chance to tell the Clearly the own resources arrangement is a tax and House exactly what the British Government’s views are will be about creating a European tax as a substitute for on matters of taxation coming in at the European level. VAT. I have been at conferences and seminars called by My new clause would at least introduce the principle of the Commission in other countries to press that point referendums on own resources decisions bringing about heavily, and thank goodness Treasury officials were substantial changes in EU taxation, and require future there to argue hard against such an arrangement. We Governments to go through a more exacting process to might say that it was one of the three red lines, because agree to such changes, which would expend significant we said that tax was a red line that would not be political capital if they were proposing something clearly crossed. However, the own resources debate will clearly out of line with what the British people want. be pressed again and again by the Commission, which The new clauses address the crux of the debate, which will try to convince us that the proposed arrangement is is the scrutiny of European matters. We in this place do not a breach of one of those red lines. New clause 5 not do scrutiny half as well as we should. On Third would put up a nice barrier that we would have to cross Reading, I hope to speak about how we might improve purposefully and decisively if we wanted to move away scrutiny and what the Government should do. from that red line. I commend the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) for his tenacity, even at Michael Connarty: I want to speak briefly in support this late stage, in tabling well thought-out new clauses. I of new clauses 3, 4 and 5. They get to the meat of the do not think that they come from a Eurosceptic, anti- discussion we should have been having with the Government European view; they would just be common sense and before they introduced this silly Bill. It is silly because it make good legislation. is never likely to be used, as there are so many ways that a Government Minister of any political complexion Mr Cash: I wish to speak about my amendment 1, who wishes to continue with the European project can because it is important not only in principle, but in get measures through Parliament, such as by saying that practice as we move forward on the negotiations taking they are insignificant or that it is not necessary to have place on two main issues. The first is European economic an Act of Parliament. Therefore, I do not think that the governance as a whole and the other is the, as yet, Bill’s measures will be used a great deal. It is based on unformulated competitiveness package, which is coming the premise that the Government want to put in place up in the lift and being promoted vigorously in some the measures they introduce, and presumably a Government other parts of the European Union. of any complexion will know that they need a majority The issue turns on the Bill’s proposal for the in the House in order to introduce any measure that circumstances in which a treaty or an article 48(6) they might decide is significant enough to be dealt with decision attracts a referendum. Under clause 4(4)(b), by a referendum or an Act of Parliament. we would not have a referendum where In reality, therefore, the Bill is a bit of a public “the making of any provision that applies only to member States relations exercise. But the new clauses are not. They other than the United Kingdom” would address the things that are wrong at the moment came into play. It might sound obvious that we would with the process of dealing with the emergency brake. It not want to have a referendum if it did not affect us but, should be in place and it should be used properly in a unfortunately, that rather innocuous wording raises a way that gives a Government a chance to speak on substantial and profound problem. behalf of their Parliament and their people in the I remember Chancellor Kohl talking in the 1990s Council in a fundamental way. New clauses 3 and 4 are about the need to move forward with a two-tier Europe very attractive, because would give teeth and meat—a and he used the analogy of a convoy. The Minister for bit of beef—to a Bill that lacks that completely. The Bill Europe is doubtless aware of what is coming up in the is a list of things which might be on the mind of the lift, but he should also be very worried about it because body politic and perhaps the anti-European press, but it it is one of the greatest and most serious problems does not have any substance. The new clauses have that we face. Many people, including distinguished substance, as they lay out clearly how the brake should commentators from the Financial Times and other be used. newspapers, take an interest in these matters and get to There is absolutely no doubt that new clause 5 is the root of what is going on in Europe at the moment. necessary. It deals with a tax and we should have had a Rather than merely having a convoy of ships travelling similar clause, somewhere along the line, on the giving at different speeds with the slowest eventually being away of our social security rights. It is clear that people required to catch up—that was Chancellor Kohl’s who come to this country to work see social security as analogy—these proposals on European economic an extra payment that does not come out of the pocket governance are the equivalent of having an aircraft of their employer. When someone leaves their family carrier of the eurozone and a rowing boat of the other back in Poland, where they still have their house, to member states that are left behind. 837 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 838

I do not believe for one minute that we should be in Mr Cash: The answer is that the hon. Lady completely any way trapped or lured—to use the Prime Minister’s misunderstands the nature of the European Union. words—into engaging in the kind of European economic That is the problem in a nutshell. I am afraid that she governance proposals that apply to the eurozone or to does not understand—I have to put this to her very the competitiveness package on their own merits. Given bluntly—that the creation of a two-tier Europe on such the record of the European Union, neither has worked, disadvantageous terms would be very damaging to us. is likely to work or will work. But there is a danger in If, however, an association of nation states were to our acquiescing in allowing the other member states to decide to go in one direction, while we retained our go ahead by participating in the given procedure, be it independence and did not acquiesce in treaty or other the ordinary legislative procedure, the special procedure, procedural arrangements that bound us into that the special purposes vehicle or something that arises by association, I would be content, but that is not what is virtue of a treaty. The key test is whether it happening. “substantially affects all or any of the political, economic, fiscal, What is happening is that we are being actively required social or constitutional relationship between the United Kingdom to become and are acquiescing in becoming part of a and other Member States of the European Union.” new treaty arrangement that affects us all—all member That is how my amendment 1 puts it. states as a whole—but they get their solidarity and concentration of power with the new arrangements that If something falls into that category, as I firmly they enter into; we are left within the legal framework, believe these proposals do, it clearly affects our fundamental subject to the European Court of Justice and all that relationship with the European Union in such a way as goes with it, without being party in practice to the to require a referendum. We went through the arguments arrangements that they devise. That is why the social about the constitutional treaty and all that followed and employment legislation, the fiscal arrangements from it, and we went through the subsequent arguments and all the rest of it will have a disadvantageous effect about the Lisbon treaty and insisted on a referendum on us if they proceed with those arrangements. on it, because these things affected this fundamental relationship. I am talking about the Conservative party, My right hon. Friend the Minister may say that the rather than the coalition, which is quite a different proposed arrangements will be purely intergovernmental. thing. The basis on which we presented our argument We had a bit of a discussion about that in the debate on for a referendum was that the treaty was creating a an earlier proposal, but that is a far too simplistic way fundamental difference in the relationship between the to put it because, as I pointed out in an intervention on United Kingdom and the European Union. the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), the proposals of the European conclusions of 4 February I cannot think of anything more likely to demonstrate specifically state: that fundamental difference than the implementation of “Building on the new economic governance framework, Heads these procedures, irrespective of the legal niceties of of State or government will take further steps”— defining the transfer of powers or competences—I could I now refer to an answer that I received from the argue that there is, but that is not the issue I am raising. Financial Secretary, who put a lot of emphasis on I am saying that the key question is the substance of this— what is being done, not merely the choice of specific words employed—not in the Bill, but merely in the “to achieve a new quality of economic policy coordination in the euro area to improve competitiveness”. coalition agreement—about the transfer of powers or competences. I defy anybody to find the words in the So they are creating a new kind of co-ordinated Bill which say that wherever there is a transfer of power arrangement. It continues: or competence there will be a referendum. That is not “without undermining the single market.” what the Bill says; it chooses a list of circumstances, I believe that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister specifically but not generically, where a referendum will was very insistent on including those words, so that the be required. That is a fatal flaw in the Bill, but the real proposals would not put us at a disadvantage. My problem is the substance of what is being decided in a argument is that, whether or not those words are included, given treaty or article 48(6) arrangement. To my mind, they will do so. the creation of a two-tier Europe, with the United The proposals then go on to say—this is all part of Kingdom bound into it by acquiescence, puts us at risk the manner in which the system is being devised, which because it creates the aircraft carrier of Europe and we I regard as extremely dangerous and implausible— are left in the rowing boat. “Non-euro members will be invited to participate in the coordination.” It then says in respect of the President of the European 7.30 pm Commission: “He will ensure that the Heads of State or government of the Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): I admit that, for interested, non-euro area Member States are duly involved in the the first time, I find myself mystified by my hon. Friend’s process.” arguments. Surely, the point about the Lisbon treaty In other words, the appearance is given, contrary to was that it altered the relationship between the United what the right hon. Member for Rotherham said, that Kingdom and the European Union in a most we would not be party to those arrangements. In practice, disadvantageous way for the United Kingdom. In the that is a perfect example of the two-tier system in situation that he describes, where the Eurocrat nations operation. It requires some careful analysis, but it does are heading off at jet speed to unite themselves, I am us no favours whatsoever. quite content to be in the rowing boat, and I would prefer it if the rowing boat were being paddled very fast Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The hon. in the other direction. I cannot understand why we Gentleman is putting the searchlight on a very important would need a referendum in those circumstances. and difficult issue. It is vital that this matter is highlighted. 839 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 840

[Mr Nigel Dodds] Finally, I recall the words of Thomas Mann who proposed what I still believe to be one of the great To continue the aircraft carrier analogy, if we are in the questions of our time, as yet unresolved, but probably rowing boat, the trouble is that we are not able to row in resolved by these proposals of a two-tier Europe along a different direction; we are inevitably carried along in the lines of the Chancellor Kohl’s analogy of a convoy, the wake even though we may be in a different place. and ask, “What will it be—a European Germany or a That has happened in the past, and it is likely to happen German Europe?” in the future. Mr Lidington: We are confronted with a cornucopia Mr Cash: Indeed. As my hon. Friend the Member for of amendments and new clauses covering a number of Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) pointed out, the aircraft important but disparate subjects. I shall try, in the time carrier is owned by the Germans and the French. That available to me, to do justice to them, but I apologise to is all part of the problem. you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and to the House in advance should I not have time adequately to deal with each new Let us come to the crunch: the reality is that the clause and amendment. creation of a German or Franco-German dominated Europe lies at the heart of this. That has been one of the My hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris major concerns that has permeated the Government’s Heaton-Harris) tabled new clause 3, which is grouped thinking for a very long time, right back to when I was with amendment 4. As he said, the new clause deals advancing similar arguments about the Maastricht treaty. with the “emergency brake”procedures in the EU treaties. In fact, it was one of the reasons why I took such It is important to note that we cannot equate the exception to the treaty, not only because it created emergency brake procedure with a treaty change or European Government, but because, as I said in several with the exercise of a ratchet clause, because those books and pamphlets at the time, it was creating a relate, rather, to controls on the exercise or use of German Europe as well. We need not engage in shock, existing competences to adopt European secondary horror anxiety about that, but it is part of a new legislation such as directives or regulations in the areas dimension that will now have a significant and very concerned. His new clause would enhance parliamentary damaging effect on the United Kingdom. For that control over the use of some existing EU competences. reason, we should not acquiesce in these proposals; we Subsections (3) and (4) would add a requirement for a should do everything to defeat them. motion to be passed by both Houses before the UK could decide not to invoke the emergency brakes that can be applied to proposals for measures under all four Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I give due credence to the treaty provisions specified in the new clause, and also hon. Gentleman for all his knowledge on the issue, but before Britain could put an end to the emergency brake can he think of an historical precedent where the citizens procedure by agreeing in the European Council to refer of one country have had referendum rights over a treaty the issue back to the Council to continue with negotiations to which their country is not a party? under the ordinary legislative procedure. Mr Cash: That is a very interesting question. Conversely, As my hon. Friend said, it is our view that, even were there have been three referendums—one in Denmark, the European Council to refer a matter back to the one in France and another in Ireland—that would have Council to continue negotiations, member states would an impact on us and people voted against, but the still be free to pull the emergency brake again if they process of European integration carried on notwithstanding saw fit. As consensus is required on emergency brakes, those results. In fact, to use an analogy, we got the and if parliamentary approval were not granted, the rough end because, although the referendums went the result would be that the UK was effectively able to way that some of us wanted, they made no difference block EU decision making in those areas, although in and integration carried on anyway. respect of certain measures, as he will understand, other member states could have recourse to use of the We need to understand perhaps that these proposals enhanced co-operation procedures without the UK’s are, in fact, extremely dangerous. I suspect that my right participation where that was permitted under the treaties. hon. Friend the Minister will argue that, although we are being denied a referendum, the proposal will require Kelvin Hopkins: I followed the case made by the hon. approval by the United Kingdom Parliament in due Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) fairly carefully, course. The essence of my case is that it will have such a and I understood it to mean that the new clause would profound impact on the United Kingdom, by creating a give parliamentary backing of or control over Ministers two-tier Europe, that a referendum would be required when they go to the Council. Would that not strengthen because it involves a fundamental change in the relationship the position of Parliament relative to the EU and put a between the United Kingdom and the European Union. bit of stiffening in Ministers when they go to negotiate? I should like to say many other things about the proposal—perhaps I will have an opportunity to do so Mr Lidington: The hon. Gentleman has the right on Third Reading—but I have described its essence. intentions, but the new clause would not achieve quite This is a very dangerous move towards a German the purpose that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Europe, or a Franco-German Europe—it does not matter Daventry intend. It would have some unintended and which way we look at it—and it is a fundamental unwanted consequences as well. Let me explain why I strategic mistake. I see the Foreign Secretary, sitting on consider that to be the case. the Front Bench. He has bought this argument. I warned As I said at the outset, any proposals under the four him before the general election that we should not enter treaty articles covered by the new clause would not this landscape. I am glad that he nods his head, because constitute a transfer of power or competence from the I was explicit about that at the time. UK to the EU, because the EU’s ability to act in those 841 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 842 ways is already provided for by the treaties. Those mandatory parliamentary procedure for any of the decisions are not what the Government consider to be measures covered by the four articles that it mentions. ratchet clauses, so we do not believe that such measures The test incorporated in article 48 of the treaty is that should, as a matter of policy, be subject to the controls the emergency brake can be invoked where the measure provided for within the measure. “would affect important aspects of its”— Furthermore, proposals for EU secondary legislation meaning a member state’s— under articles 82(2) and 83 fall within the scope of our opt-in to title V under protocol 21 to the Lisbon treaty. “social security system”. We have already undertaken to review the procedures Under articles 82 and 83, the test is whether the measure for parliamentary scrutiny of the use of the opt-in to “would affect fundamental aspects of” ensure that Parliament has an increased say. I spelled a member state’s that out, in outline, in my written ministerial statement of 20 January. “criminal justice system”. For the future, we have made it clear in clause 9 that Those are high bars to leap, but it is important to the use of the ratchet clauses in some of those articles note that it is for the member state—and the member should ensure that any British participation in such state alone, not anyone else—to decide whether that test measures by virtue of our opt-in should be preceded by should be met. However, under the new clause, the approval of both Houses of Parliament, and that parliamentary approval would be needed before a British our agreement to the final measures proposed should be Government could consider whether the emergency preceded by parliamentary approval by Act of Parliament. brake should be used for any proposal for a measure We believe that that represents a significant step forward under any of the treaty provisions that it specifies, no in enhancing the controls of the House on those justice matter how small its potential effect on the UK. and home affairs ratchet clauses while maintaining the For example, co-ordination regulations are amended same proportionate and sustainable approach that we regularly under article 48 of the treaty on the functioning have sought to take with all other parts of the Bill. of the European Union to take account of changes in the various social security systems of member states. 7.45 pm Many of those amendments simply do not have any Furthermore, since three of the four treaty provisions practical effect in the UK—for example, a change in the that are the subject of the new clause are in the area of name of a Dutch benefit or an update of a reference to freedom, security and justice, any such decisions by a German national legislation. British Government to opt in to proposals for EU I do not think that that is what my hon. Friend the legislation would themselves be subject to the UK’s Member for Daventry intends, but the new clause would opt-in protocol. One way in which the Bill will increase result in both Houses of Parliament being obliged to public accountability is by providing that any proposed consider whether it was appropriate to use the emergency treaty change to give up our freedom not to take part in brake in respect of an amendment to such co-ordination justice and home affairs by removing our opt-in protocol regulations in respect of other member states’ national would require a referendum first. social security systems. I simply do not think that that is I am not arguing that the current arrangements for a sensible policy to adopt. scrutiny are perfect—I think I made that clear earlier in our proceedings—nor am I arguing that the new clause Amendment 4, which was also moved by my hon. is unnecessary for that reason. In my written statement Friend, concerns a situation where in the future the UK of 20 January, I outlined the proposals for further might wish to take part in a measure under article 82(2)(d) enhancements of parliamentary scrutiny arrangements or article 83(1) proposed following the use of the for all areas of freedom, security and justice opt-ins. I ratchet clauses in those treaty articles and decided by will not go into detail at this stage—I think that most qualified majority voting. The amendment would ensure Members of the House who are present are familiar that we could not participate in such a measure unless with the content of that written statement—but if the Parliament had given its approval to do so through Act new clause were adopted, in addition to the enhanced of Parliament. security measures on JHA that I proposed in January, Clause 9 already provides for the use of these two there would be a practical implication—that in some ratchet clauses to be subject to the two-stage parliamentary cases Parliament would be required to look at the same approval procedure. First, a motion must be carried in issue more than once: first, when considering whether both Houses unamended before Britain could opt in to to opt in to a measure under one of those legal bases, a proposal to use either ratchet. Clause 9 then requires then when considering whether to apply the emergency approval in the form of an Act of Parliament before we brake in each case. There would even be the possibility could agree formally to the decision in Council. I understand of a third examination of the same measure if the my hon. Friend’s concern, which is that once the ratchet emergency brake provisions were to be used by the UK, had been deployed and the UK had opted in to a or indeed any other member state, and there was then subsequent measure already subject to QMV, we would agreement at the European Council to refer the matter be bound by those measures even if the final proposal back to the Council of Ministers for the negotiations to were not considered desirable by the Government. continue based on the ordinary legislative procedure. I However, I am concerned that the amendment may simply do not think that that multiplicity of debates not deliver the result that my hon. Friend intends to and votes in Parliament would be a good use of limited achieve. Instead, the provisions in the Bill and in the parliamentary time. package of measures that I outlined in January represent The tests set for the emergency brake in the treaties a more effective solution. First, if the UK formed part are quite high. For that reason, we should hesitate of a blocking minority preventing adoption of the before agreeing to a new clause that would require a measure, we could be ejected from the measure and 843 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 844 other member states could proceed anyway without Negotiations on the next financial perspective will be British participation, under the terms of article 3(2) of complicated, long and difficult. We will need flexibility our opt-in protocol. This, as with all negotiations, increases to shape various elements of the EU budget below the the importance of effective UK participation in the lower ceiling for overall spending that we aim to achieve, negotiation and the development of a robust negotiating and to build alliances with other budget-disciplined position with like-minded member states. allies. The new clause would place severe constraints on Secondly, both the treaty articles mentioned in the our ability to build such alliances. That in turn would amendment make provision for an emergency brake risk isolating the UK in future negotiations and make it procedure. So if we objected to the proposed measure harder for us to achieve our overall objective. on the grounds that it would affect fundamental aspects of our criminal justice system, we would be able to Mr Cash: Will the Minister give way? request that the measure be referred to the European Council. That would cause the suspension of the ordinary Mr Lidington: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I legislative procedure. want to reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry. We recognise that the emergency brake must be invoked Another example of the lack of flexibility in new sparingly, and only if it meets the test laid down in the clause 4 relates to the variation in payments from year treaty that it “affects fundamental principles” of the to year. The December letter left some scope for real United Kingdom’s criminal justice system. The emergency variation in payments over the next financial perspective, brake would not therefore be appropriate if its use were provided that payments over the whole period were simply designed to ensure that the UK would not be frozen in real terms. The new clause would prevent any bound by a measure that was subject to QMV and had payments variations, but such variations are a natural been negotiated by others, and which the UK Government consequence of how the financial framework works. decided they wished to opt in to at a later date. For example, a commitment of 100 euros in 2005 might Thirdly—I do not want to labour the point again lead to a payment of 20 euros in 2006 and 80 euros in and again—I proposed on 20 January strengthened 2007. That is because commitments made in one year arrangements for parliamentary scrutiny of justice and do not translate into uniform payments over subsequent home affairs matters. These provide a means by which years. to ensure much more intensive parliamentary scrutiny We want to cut wasteful EU spending, not just to of the sort of measures that my hon. Friend has in reduce the overall size of the EU budget, but to free up mind, and to ensure that Ministers can be held to some resources to improve the value for money that we account and obliged to answer to parliamentary opinion and other member states get from European Union in a debate and, if Parliament so wishes, a vote on the spending, and to support activities such as boosting policy that they wish to adopt. economic growth and competitiveness. We would like to Lastly, as my hon. Friend knows, where the UK’s see work done on improving the way in which the EU participation in a subsequent measure would depend on budget supports economic growth and competitiveness a post-adoption opt-in to one of the JHA ratchet via the Europe 2020 strategy, subject to judicious selection clauses, or in other words in those cases where we had of the most appropriate policy instruments. We want not yet opted in to the corresponding ratchet clause, the the EU budget to enhance security, via an active role for provisions in clause 9 ensure that an Act of Parliament the EU as a global player. This could mean increases in would be required before the UK could participate in spending under those headings, but we would insist on the subsequent measure. This would ensure that no those being counterbalanced by reductions under other Government could participate in a measure drawing headings, all within our overall objective of restricting upon a ratchet clause without having first to seek any increase in the EU budget to inflation. parliamentary approval for the ratchet clause itself. Paradoxically, the new clause might force a referendum However, as the requirement for primary legislation on the next financial framework exactly because we had would not guarantee that the UK could not remain successfully achieved our reform agenda within the bound by any subsequent measures subject to QMV constraints of a very tight limit on the size of the after we had opted in, it does not seem sensible to budget overall. legislate on this basis. I therefore urge my hon. Friend to New clause 4 and the associated amendment 7 would withdraw the amendment. hamper our objectives of driving down the overall EU New clause 4 addresses the issue of the European budget and improving the value for money that it Union budget. The Government give high priority to provides. I therefore urge my hon. Friends to withdraw budgetary discipline and seek, with Germany, France, those amendments. Finland and the Netherlands in particular, to ensure New clause 5 is about taxes. The measures proposed that the European Union budget should grow by no in the new clause address matters that already fall more than inflation in the next financial perspective. within European Union competence. The Prime Minister, and the entire Government, consider that to be of the highest priority. I fear that the new Mr Cash: Will the Minister attempt, even in the last clause as drafted would make it more difficult to achieve 30 seconds, to say whether he accepts the principle that our budgetary objectives. It would hinder our work in a lies behind my amendment 1? So far he has not even number of ways. touched on it. First, new clause 4 is more restrictive than the position set out in the joint letter from my right hon. Friend the Mr Lidington: We debated that issue at some length Prime Minister and the leaders of the other countries in Committee. My position and that of the Government that I have mentioned. This is because new clause 4 remain that it is the sovereign right of member states to rules out growth above inflation in all areas of EU spending. decide to agree treaties which affect them. What we are 845 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 846 concerned about in the United Kingdom is defending The whole House has benefited from my hon. Friend’s the right of the British people to have a lock on anything knowledge and his long-held and principled approach that transfers powers away from this place to European to these matters. Union institutions, and not to interfere with what other Governments decide independently that they wish to do. On the Opposition Front Bench, the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds), a Chris Heaton-Harris: I beg to ask leave to withdraw shadow Foreign Office Minister, impressed the whole the motion. House with her first speech from the Dispatch Box, which is no easy thing to do. She showed herself to be Clause, by leave, withdrawn. one of the Leader of the Opposition’s new generation with a bright future. As I understand it, his “new 8pm generation” is a sufficiently elastic term to encompass Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order, 24 January). the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David), the shadow Minister for Europe, as well—[Interruption.] Indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Does the the squeezed middle—another elastic and not exactly hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) wish to move his defined term. Perhaps both terms are suited to him. amendment formally? Once again, he has shown the House his great eloquence. My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and Mr Cash: I will not move the amendment, but I do North Essex (Mr Jenkin) spoke with great verve and not agree with what the Minister has just said. passion. My hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question necessary (Mr Clappison), who is in his place, brought to the for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that debate his usual rigour and deeply held belief in time (Standing Order No. 83E). parliamentary accountability. My hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd) has spoken with all the zeal for democracy that we associate Clause 10 with him. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) has demonstrated great fluency and articulacy in the debates, including earlier this evening. PARLIAMENTARY CONTROL OF CERTAIN DECISIONS NOT I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Esher REQUIRING APPROVAL BY ACT and Walton (Mr Raab) for the legal focus he has brought Amendment made: 3, page 9, line 2, at end insert— to the debates. ‘(1A) A Minister of the Crown may not vote in favour of or otherwise support a decision to which this subsection applies I thank my hon. Friend the Member for North East unless Parliamentary approval has been given in accordance with Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) for the intelligence and this section. thoughtfulness he has brought to the debate. My hon. (1B) Subsection (1A) applies to a decision under Article 48(7) Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) gave of TEU which in relation to a provision of TFEU applies the us the benefit of his considered and always thoroughly ordinary legislative procedure in place of a special legislative reasoned opinions. My hon. Friend the Member for procedure not requiring the Council to act unanimously.’— Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) showed the House his (Mr Lidington.) enormous skill in debate. My hon. Friend the Member Third Reading for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) made the debates more enjoyable for everyone, not least with his unquenchable 8pm sense of mischief. My hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) made very carefully The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth thought-through contributions, and my hon. Friend the Affairs (Mr William Hague): I beg to move, That the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) gave the House the Bill be now read the Third time. benefit of his great clarity of mind. I begin by thanking the many hon. Members who My hon. Friends the Members for Witham (Priti have participated in the very extensive debates on the Patel) and for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), Bill, with five full days in Committee, comprising more my right hon. Friends the Members for Wokingham than 30 hours of this House’s time. So many Members (Mr Redwood) and for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell) and have spoken—more than 90 in total—that it would take my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for most of the two hours available for the Third reading to Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) have all spoken well pay tribute to them all. I am delighted that the Bill has in these debates. I thank my hon. Friends the Members stimulated such interest. for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), for Invidious as it is to single out any Member—I apologise Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) and for New Forest East to those I do not mention—I want to pay tribute to my (Dr Lewis). I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friends hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) and the the Members for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), for European Scrutiny Committee. Whether or not we were Wycombe (Steve Baker), for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), surprised that he did not move his amendment just now, for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) and for Crawley (Henry we were certainly not surprised that he did not agree Smith), whose rigorous scrutiny has helped us materially with what my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe to improve the Bill as it has gone through Committee. has just said. I thank my hon. Friend and his Committee for their two very comprehensive reports on the Bill. From another party, my hon. Friends the Members The Government do not take the same view as the for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), for Westmorland Committee on all the points they have raised, but and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) and for St Austell and the Committee has fulfilled its vital role commendably. Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) very ably represented their 847 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 848

[Mr William Hague] Mr Cash: It will not be the first time that my right hon. Friend has found I am not taken in by flattery. The party and powerfully made the case for the Bill from a real question is the one to which I referred a few slightly different perspective from that of some of my moments ago when he was in the Chamber, which colleagues. relates to the landscape of the European Union, increased On the Opposition side, I want to thank the hon. Europeanisation as it affects this country and the manner Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), without in which the predominance of other countries is clearly whose sharp wit no debate on Europe would be complete, moving further and further upstream. Does he really although evidently we are having to do without it this believe that the Bill will make any substantial difference evening, so perhaps the debate is incomplete. The hon. to that question, particularly if we go down the route of Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), who a two-tier Europe? is in her place, as always brought her great experience and independence of mind to bear. The hon. Member Mr Hague: The Bill does make a material difference. for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) reminded us that she is a It does not address the whole question my hon. Friend sincere tribune of democracy. Truly, no debate on these raises, because there are many different dimensions to matters would be complete without the hon. Member it, but it is an important measure. In any future negotiations for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), as I well remember about the EU, British Ministers will be in the European from the previous Parliament. The hon. Member for Council saying very clearly that, under a vast range of Rhondda (Chris Bryant) left us in no doubt about his provisions set out in the Bill, proposals that may be put view of the Bill. The right hon. Member for Rotherham to them in the European Council would require a (Mr MacShane)—it is a pity he is not here—fulfilled his referendum in the UK. That does change the negotiating proper role admirably, which is to denounce the Bill in position in Europe and the freedom of manoeuvre of such fierce terms as to convince everyone else of its British Governments, and it means that Governments great merits. He has done us an enormous service by have to be very alert to that point—not just British doing so regularly. Governments, but all the Governments of the European Lastly, I must thank my right hon. Friend the Minister Union. I can tell my hon. Friend that when I explain for Europe who has led the debates in Committee with that point to them, as I already do, it makes a considerable great authority and absolute command of the language impact on them. and detail of the treaties and of the Bill. I and the rest of My view is that the European Union has great the Government are very grateful for the superb work achievements to its name: the single market; the enlargement he has done. I should also put on the record my gratitude of its membership, which has done so much to strengthen for the outstanding work done by officials in the Foreign the spread of freedom and democracy in Europe; and Office in putting together this legislation. the effective use of European nations’ collective weight The Bill represents the most significant and radical in the world, which remains of high importance to our overhaul of how the most important decisions in the values and interests, as we have seen on sanctions and European Union can be made by the United Kingdom— on Iran and hope to see in response to events in north decisions on changes to the EU treaties—since the Africa. European Communities Act 1972. It is an overhaul that There are great challenges for the nations of Europe, is as profoundly needed as it is overdue. It marks a real in growth and global competitiveness, where action in shift in power from Ministers to Parliament and from the European Union on widening further markets in both Ministers and Parliament to voters themselves. services, energy and the digital economy could do much The last 13 years of Labour Government saw the old to help to lift our economic prospects, but all that will approach tested to destruction. Four major treaties be ever more overshadowed if the EU’s treaties change were signed. One was blocked by referendums in other yet again to enlarge its powers still further without countries. A referendum was promised in this country popular consent. That is the point that the Bill addresses. but denied and a treaty was taken through Parliament with no basis in any party’s manifesto. After those Mr Redwood: I am all in favour of that democratic 13 years, the EU’s reach and power has grown and consent, but there is about to be a very substantial grown, but its standing with the British people has strengthening of power over economic governance for fallen at the same time. euroland, and, although we will be opted out of the For any democrat, that must be a deeply unsatisfactory most severe penalty, many of us believe that the measure state of affairs. Whether one approves of everything in will have a very big impact over the years on this all these treaties, which is a respectable position but not country. Why cannot we have a vote on that crucial new mine, or believes, as I do, that the EU now has considerable treaty? powers that would far better be matters for national Parliaments and Governments, we cannot go on like Mr Hague: It is already very clear, from our discussions this. The EU’s future developments must be put under on that treaty, that it will not have the effect on the proper democratic control. That is an absolute necessity United Kingdom which my right hon. Friend fears. from any point of view on the EU if disenchantment There is no provision for it to do so; indeed, it is very with it is not to grow yet worse. clear that it should not do so. If any change were to be made to the arrangements of the European Union Mr Cash: Will my right hon. Friend be kind enough which imposed significant new sanctions or obligations to give way? on the United Kingdom, then of course a referendum Mr Hague: I was hoping that my kind reference to my would arise under the provisions of the Bill. That again hon. Friend would give him such a glow of contentment will have to be remembered when all such provisions that he would be able to sit through my speech, but I and changes are discussed within the European Union will of course give way. in the future. 849 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 850

It is one of our core beliefs in this coalition Government We can all recall manifesto promises that have been that power should not be hoarded by Ministers and broken, and we all know that new circumstances can officials in Whitehall, but be shared more widely with arise that are not covered by a manifesto. That was the Parliament and people. That is wholly at one with the very thin excuse that the Labour party came up with for development of modern society. People increasingly not holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Indeed, want and expect to make decisions for themselves, not when voters must exercise their judgment on the whole to have them taken for them by the Government. This of a manifesto, crucial questions of who should hold Government believe that that desire and expectation are power can be lost in the broader argument. Although in shaping our society for the better, so we are opening up most matters future Governments and Parliament can public services to more choice, giving professionals reverse the decisions of their predecessors, in the case of more responsibility and devolving power in the Localism the European Union that can be very difficult indeed. Bill. The British people want the right to decide whether the The Bill before us is driven by our belief in giving European Union should be given new powers over power to people. Indeed, the lack of referendums on areas of policy.They deserve that right, and our democracy transfers of areas of power from Britain to the EU has will be healthier and the European Union more legitimate become glaringly illogical, given the many issues on if they get it. That is the democratic case for this Bill. which the previous Government did institute referendums. Indeed, the case for the Bill is so strong that the We have had referendums on devolution and, locally, on House did not divide on Second Reading, and the whether towns and cities, from London to Hartlepool, Opposition, in their amendment to that Second Reading, should have directly elected mayors. The logic of all accepted the soundness of the principle of referendums those referendums is the same: they are decisions on on significant constitutional changes. It is good that whether to change who holds power and how that there is consensus on the extension of our democracy. power may be used. No decision can be more eminently Unfortunately, the Opposition Front-Bench team also qualified than one that could move an area of policy took the position of willing the end but not the means, from the responsibility of this House to the responsibility by proposing a rather nebulous committee to decide to the European Union. whether any treaty change was significant. According to that position, it would be debatable not only whether Ms Gisela Stuart: I want to take the Foreign Secretary the preservation of our national veto or the retention of back to when he said that he wished to share power. national vetoes over foreign policy were significant enough Does he also wish to share power in the European for a referendum, but whether joining the euro was Union with UK citizens who apply for high-level jobs in significant enough for a referendum. That of course it? The latest statistics show that British applicants became a rather risible argument. make up less than 5%, because they are not competent in a second language. The Germans and French take The fact that the Bill sets down in detail the criteria something like 20% of the jobs, so could we share that for when a referendum should be held was also objected power also with our workers and upwards? to, but we make no apology for its detail. It ensures that the referendum lock that the Bill gives the voters is real. Mr Hague: Yes, very much indeed. In fact, there was The complexity of the European treaties themselves quite a lot of criticism of the External Action Service makes any other approach ineffective. The alternative— from other countries, because so many British people some kind of broad test of whether there should be a have gone into its senior ranks recently, but the hon. referendum—would create legal uncertainty and leave Lady makes an important point, which my right hon. far too much to ministerial discretion. Our purpose in Friend the Minister for Europe and I have been addressing drafting the Bill was to reduce ministerial discretion to since the new Government took office—that far fewer the barest minimum. The answer to the distrust from British people have gone into the European institutions which the European Union now suffers in this country in recent years. is not to leave power in the hands of the Government, but to give it to the people. The previous Government ended the European fast stream programme for civil servants, and it has now A third objection was that the Bill will make it harder been started again. We hold events in the Foreign Office to negotiate in the EU, or that it sends the wrong for universities, to point out that there are careers in the signals. I argue, as I just have, that it will make it easier European institutions, so that in future a bigger intake to negotiate in the EU. It is usually best to be wary of of people working in those institutions will come from vague arguments invoking signals, and that is certainly the United Kingdom and understand the culture and true in this case. The signal that the Bill sends is that, in issues here. This Government are addressing that point, future, Britain’s conduct of EU business will be placed whereas the Government whom she supported rather on a surer democratic foundation, and that is a good dismally failed. I am therefore very grateful to her for one. The Bill makes it no harder to negotiate, but it does raising that issue. mean that on all kinds of treaty changes the Government This Bill rightly gives Parliament far more control must be able to convince Parliament of the merits of over decisions that had previously been a matter for their case, and, in the case of treaty changes that Ministers alone or that Parliament had only limited transfer power, convince the British people themselves. ability to scrutinise and deliberate on. By directing That brings me to the fourth objection that I have Ministers when a referendum must be held and by heard to the Bill—that the referendum lock will make setting such conditions in law, the Bill also transfers many kinds of desirable changes impossible because the power directly to the people. I am a passionate supporter British people will vote them down. That is surely the of the rights and role of Parliament, but there are issues weakest argument of all—that the British people cannot where it is right that power should be exercised directly and should not be trusted, and that arguments for by the people. increasing the EU’s powers are so unconvincing that the 851 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 852

[Mr Hague] rigours of this Bill for its ratification. That treaty change is due to be agreed later this month. Because the Bill is British people can never be persuaded of them. Although unlikely to be law by the end of May, we have amended I believe that we have come to the point where the it so that the clock starts ticking for the two-month problem is not that the EU has too little say over too period for the Government statement upon Royal Assent few areas of policy but quite the reverse, I say to those to the Bill rather than on the day when the treaty who have such concerns, “Have the courage of your change is signed. convictions.” If a future Government thought it right to abolish national vetoes over foreign policy, for example, Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): Will let them convince the voters of the merits of doing so. If the Foreign Secretary use the opportunity of the eurozone’s that cannot be done, that is democracy at work. needing our agreement to its permanent stability pact The Bill sets out the process for handling any future to require, in return, some repatriation of powers to this treaty changes. The coalition Government have made a country, particularly in limiting the application of the firm commitment that we will not agree to any transfer working time directive, which is part of the coalition of powers from Westminster to Brussels for the duration agreement? of this Parliament, but, as experience has shown, voters should not simply have to rely on politicians’ promises Mr Hague: The eurozone treaty change is in the on such matters. If Parliament approves the Bill, any interests of the United Kingdom; let us be clear about future treaty change that transfers powers from Britain that. Therefore, no one should think that it is in our to the EU will be agreed to only with the consent of the interests to block that treaty change as it is currently British people. proposed. Although we are not members of the euro—my Many other matters have been gone over in detail, position on the euro is very long-held and well known; I including important debates on the sovereignty clause, hope that we will never be members—its stability is very so I will not go through everything again. Some of my important for our own economic situation and economic hon. Friends were concerned that references to the future. It is therefore unlikely to be in our national common law in the explanatory notes implied that the interest, or to be effective, to try to block the treaty Government were forming a judgment on the origins of change to put forward the change that my hon. Friend parliamentary sovereignty. That is not the case. For the proposes, particularly as other nations could, if necessary, avoidance of doubt, I reiterate that the purpose of make such changes outside the European treaties to get clause 18 is to make clear and to put beyond speculation round such a block. However, he is right to raise concerns the basis on which directly effective and applicable EU about the working time directive—an issue to which we law takes effect in the domestic legal order of the will have to return. United Kingdom, and to negate the risk that EU law could be held to have an autonomous status independent This Bill deals with the most important EU decisions of the will of Parliament through its Acts. of all—those on treaty change. However, we believe that there is room for further improvement of parliamentary A number of Government amendments have been scrutiny and control over EU decisions, and that is made to the Bill in Committee and on Report to ensure particularly true of justice and home affairs opt-in that it comprehensively fulfils its overall original intent decisions. It had become clear to us, and to many others and that the law on parliamentary ratification of treaties in this House—my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere, is wholly consistent and coherent. Hon. Members’ detailed in particular, has raised this—that the established system consideration of the Bill exposed some areas where was inadequate. Therefore, two months ago, my hon. improvements could be made, and we are grateful to Friend the Minister for Europe, with the support of the them for that work. First, the amendments make it Home Secretary and the Justice Secretary, announced a absolutely clear that a referendum would be required in package of measures to strengthen parliamentary control all cases before the UK could join the European Public so that there will have to be a vote in both Houses Prosecutor’s Office or an extension of its powers, whether before the Government can decide by 2014 whether to the decision was taken before or after that office had opt in en masse to the existing EU criminal justice and been set up by other member states or before or after policing measures adopted under the former third pillar. the powers had been extended. There is now also a minimum requirement for a written Secondly, the amendments ensure that any proposed statement to Parliament on all opt-in decisions on new treaty change that sought to give up any national veto EU measures in justice and home affairs. In the case of in respect of the common foreign and security policy strong parliamentary interest in a proposed decision to provisions in the treaty on the European Union, whether opt in, under the Bill there will be a debate and vote in under the ordinary revision procedure, under the simplified both Houses on the Government’s recommended approach. revision procedure or through the use of an existing There are a number of practical issues to resolve, so ratchet clause, would require the consent of the British the Government are committed to consulting with the people in a referendum. Thirdly, they ensure, with the business managers, the European Scrutiny Committee passing of the relevant amendment a few moments ago, in the Commons, the Lords European Union Committee that Parliament will have to vote in favour of any move and the Justice and Home Affairs Committees on how from the special legislative procedure to the ordinary these arrangements will work in practice, including the legislative procedure in relation to eight articles of the criteria for when a debate should be held in Government treaty that are already subject to qualified majority time and how we deal with periods of recess. Discussions voting. on these issues are continuing, and we will report on The first Government amendment tabled on the second their conclusions in due course. We are also committed day in Committee amends clause 5 to ensure that the to enhancing parliamentary scrutiny of other EU issues proposed eurozone treaty change is subject to the full beyond the area of justice and home affairs, and the 853 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 854

Minister for Europe has already been in contact with The measures in part 2 to ensure that Britain is fully my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) and represented in the European Parliament are of course the Chairman of the Lords EU Committee to take this necessary, as are some of the changes to the way in work forward. which this House scrutinises European decisions, such This Bill is not a panacea for all the problems of the as those in clauses 9 and 10. There is growing consensus European Union, but it does deal with the biggest in almost all member states of the European Union that challenge that it poses to our democracy: that its national Parliaments need to play a bigger role in development should be linked to popular consent. The scrutinising its decisions. Bill does not just provide a referendum lock on any During the Foreign Secretary’s first period of trying future treaty change that transfers powers: it provides a to appease Conservative Eurosceptics, he tried to move framework for greater parliamentary control over many the euro debate off referendums and into the mainstream important decisions, including those which need to be of a general election campaign. As I am sure he will taken shortly to help deal with the eurozone crisis. It recollect, this Bill comes 3,572 days after he told us that lays down that the transfer of power or competence there were just 12 days left to save the pound. He does cannot be agreed by a British Government without first not yet seem to have learned his lesson. The Conservative obtaining the consent of the British people. It is a major party has called for a referendum on every treaty since it change that strengthens our democracy by giving new was last in office. Its last manifesto pledged to repatriate powers to Parliament and voters. As such, it can and the European competences contained in those treaties should be welcomed by everyone, whatever their view of back to the United Kingdom. Now Ministers appear the European Union, and I therefore hope that this content with the situation as it stands and offer this House will give it its Third Reading tonight. 18-clause Bill instead. The principle of having a codified set of rules on 8.26 pm when a referendum should take place on major issues, Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire as is attempted in schedule 1, is reasonable enough, South) (Lab): As is customary, I join the Foreign Secretary even if it seems somewhat extraneous. We will see how in paying generous tribute to previous speakers in today’s far such a power is applied in practice. For all the talk of debate and in the debates on the Bill in Committee of legislative and referendum locks, which we have heard the Whole House. Throughout these debates, there have again from the Foreign Secretary this evening, the Bill been sustained contributions from a whole range of cannot get away from the simple fact that each successive Members, and I will accept the challenge of trying to Parliament in the United Kingdom is sovereign. If a identify just a small number of them given the very new treaty is signed or a new distribution of powers is many who have spoken. The hon. Member for Stone decided on, Ministers will have to bring a Bill before (Mr Cash) and my hon. Friend the Member for Parliament, just as before. At that point, it would be Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) have demonstrated straightforward for them to amend part 1 of this Bill their depth of knowledge on these complex but important and remove any of the requirements. They could also issues. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham legislate for a referendum, or choose a new constitutional (Mr MacShane) and the hon. Member for Harwich and innovation that we cannot foresee. It will be for the North Essex (Mr Jenkin), who is not in his place this Parliament of the day to make that decision. Rather evening, have shown that rhetorical flourishes are not than a legislative lock, the Bill actually seems to be the the domain of any one party but can be brought to constitutional application of the latest theory much-loved opposing sides of this debate. by the Prime Minister: the nudge theory. I suppose that I also echo the Foreign Secretary in paying generous for Government Members, it is worth a little more than tribute to both Front-Bench teams, both of whom have the cast-iron guarantee that the Prime Minister offered been well briefed for these debates, as the immense red before the election. folder opposite may powerfully attest. Alas, for the time being it is the only thing on that side of the Chamber Mr Redwood: On reflection, does the right hon. that is red, with the possible exception of the Deputy Gentleman think that it would have been better if the Leader of the House’s socks, but I hope that that will British public had had a vote on Nice, Amsterdam or change in time. Lisbon, because they might have felt a bit happier about On the Third Reading of Bills, it is customary to the European Union if they had been properly consulted? thank the departmental officials who have toiled in support of their ministerial masters. Some in the Foreign Mr Alexander: I find myself in sympathy with the Office deal with great affairs of state, while some see Conservative position at the times of those treaties. The service in troubled lands. A chosen few are dispatched Conservatives were not convinced by the case for a to represent our country to our firm allies in the great referendum, and neither was I. It rather reflects the capitals of the world. The seven officials who have been changing disposition of those on the Conservative Front obliged to work full-time on this particular piece of Bench that, as I recollect, the Foreign Secretary was a legislation therefore deserve our heartfelt sympathy and fierce advocate of the avoidance of a referendum on the support. Maastricht treaty. At least on that, we are at one. Not everything in the Bill is bad, although nothing in The real guard is the precedent established by political it is particularly good. It has been described variously consensus that, for example, no party will join the euro as a piece of “legislative PR”, a “show Bill”, a “missed without a referendum. No party pledged to ratify the opportunity”, as having clauses that are “entirely bogus”, proposed European constitution without a referendum. and of involving “contemplating our navels”. Those There was no consensus on Lisbon. Labour and Liberal remarks, of course, all came from Conservative Members, Democrat Members did not believe that a referendum apparently in support of their Government’s proposals. was needed, but Conservative Members did, and the 855 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 856

[Mr Douglas Alexander] of more import than its true legislative effect. Dramatic, epoch-making events are taking place in the middle east Conservative leader did until he suddenly realised that as we gather here this evening. In Libya, Foreign and he might be in government in just over a year’s time and Commonwealth Office Ministers have not exactly covered did not fancy spending the first two years as Prime themselves in glory, and the root of the problem appears Minister obsessing over European renegotiations. to be their failure to co-ordinate either within Government or among our allies. May I respectfully suggest that the Charlie Elphicke: I hate to intrude on the right hon. Bill is distracting Ministers from what should be their Gentleman’s reworking of history, but to describe the overriding focus at this time? Lisbon treaty as nothing to do with the European In February, the Foreign Secretary said that the cost constitution is a travesty of the truth and of what of simply drawing up the Bill had already run to £200,000. actually happened. Does he accept that he should regret We are left wondering not only how much the final bill not following through with a referendum on that matter? will be but whether it is really the best use of the Mr Alexander: I do not wish to intrude on private Foreign Office’s resources when it is having to make grief, but I sense that that question would be better significant efficiencies. Of course, the bill for this Bill directed towards his new-found colleagues in the coalition, has not yet ended, because the Government have ignored who clearly do not share his view. If he was to achieve amendments tabled by the Opposition and are leaving consensus on his side of the House, he might have a judicial review, rather than Parliament, to determine in better chance of achieving it across the whole House. the final instance whether there should be referendums. We do not know how often judicial reviews will be The muddle in that part of the Bill is as nothing called or a decision will be reversed, but we do know compared with clause 18—the so-called supremacy clause. that what has been called the William Cash memorial That was meant to be the red meat, but the more erudite Bill could equally be called a fiscal stimulus for any Government Members simply are not biting. The hon. legal practice specialising in judicial reviews. Member for Stone called it a “mouse of a Bill” when referring to this point. Those Members know that this is The Conservatives’ monomania about Europe in Britain’s first foray into what can safely be described as opposition was an eccentricity, and the further they decorative legislation. It demeans this House to assert sank in the polls, the grander their rhetoric became. I that it is sovereign when the fact is not seriously questioned. confess, for that reason alone, to occasionally having What we have seen in the middle east and north Africa cheered them on. However, they are in government now in recent weeks should be a salutary reminder to us all and the time has come to put away the party preoccupations that Parliaments and states derive their sovereignty that kept them going in the dark days of general election from the people they serve. This Parliament will be no defeats. Now their job is to run the country and develop more or less sovereign because of the superfluous clause 18. a foreign policy worthy of the name. Now is not the The question that we are all left asking is, “What is time for legislation designed to appease their own Back the rush?” The Government say that they have no Benchers. intention of passing any powers to Europe for the next I have enjoyed both versions of the Foreign Secretary four years, so part 1 of the Bill will not be used, and that have been seen in the House in the past decade—the clause 18 has already been shown to be superfluous. baseball-capped, 14-pint-a-night young Conservative with However, the Bill has been brought before the House extraordinary rhetorical skills, and the rather more for Third Reading before the Localism Bill, the Health world-weary, scholarly voice of experience in a Cabinet and Social Care Bill, the Budget Responsibility and that all too often lacks it. There is a lot for Opposition National Audit Bill and the Welfare Reform Bill—before Members to admire in both those characters, but surely any of the legislation that is supposed to define the very to be a strong Foreign Secretary he needs to decide purpose of the coalition Government. whether the Bill really fits with the seriousness needed If the Bill is not just a legislative attempt to distract from a British Foreign Secretary at a time of global the Conservative right, I am afraid I can think of only economic and political turmoil. His 2001 persona would one possible explanation. The week before last, the surely have loved the Bill, but I and many others had Deputy Prime Minister was reportedly shocked to discover hoped that he would take that fact as a warning rather that he was briefly in charge of the Government. The than an endorsement. only real purpose for the Bill that I can adduce is that it The Foreign Secretary has my support in putting is designed to guard against an eventuality such as this: pressure on the Gaddafi regime in Libya in the coming the Prime Minister abroad on a trade mission, the days, and the Minister for Europe has my support when Foreign Secretary about to head to Washington for he speaks out against human rights abuses in Belarus, important discussions and the Chancellor in Klosters, as he did at the weekend. In seeking the right reforms in with the Deputy Prime Minister seeing an awful Liberal Brussels, they have not merely my support but my Democrat election result and deciding to make a dash sympathy. I just wish that they would get on with those for the history books by joining the euro before any of vital tasks instead of wasting so much of the people’s them manage to get back to the country.I tell Conservative time with a Bill that satisfies few and achieves so little. Members who are slightly concerned by that scenario that in reality they need not worry; the mere fact of the Deputy Prime Minister’s support is probably a bigger 8.39 pm barrier to Britain joining the euro than any referendum Mr Cash: I am fascinated by the line that the Opposition lock contemplated in the House. are taking. I am not impressed, if I may say so, by the We are content for the Bill to proceed to the House of line being taken by the coalition Government. It is Lords for further scrutiny, particularly of clauses 3 to 6. difficult to resist the idea that a referendum is necessary However, what it reveals about the Government is probably in certain circumstances, so I rather anticipate that 857 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 858 there will not a Division this evening, since the Bill is amending them or any provisions in them, or by clearly and associated with what is really no more than the unlikely expressly legislating inconsistently with them in respect of EU event of a referendum being called in respect of any of legislation or generally.” the provisions contained in it. The circumstances and That is a very important statement from the European the facts that we have had the opportunity to examine Scrutiny Committee, because for many years it was in the course of proceedings on the Bill, and indeed the asserted that, owing to the nature of the European trend, as I said in my earlier speech, of the UK being Communities Act and the treaties on which it is based, drawn in to the legal framework of a two-tier Europe with their amendments and their additions, it would not but actually being neutered at the same time, increase be possible for Parliament to legislate “notwithstanding the necessity of a proper referendum—an in-or-out the European Communities Act”. There was a movement referendum—so that the British people can decide whether towards the assumption—it was a dangerous habit of they want to be Europeanised or absorbed, like ectoplasm, thinking and attitude of mind—that somehow we were into the strange new world being created, over which we locked into a situation that would never allow the have increasingly little influence, let alone control. United Kingdom to reassert its sovereignty in respect of This is, fundamentally, about a democratic deficit. I European legislation. do not believe that the Bill will make any substantial For reasons that I have given, including the burdens difference to the landscape to which I referred in my on businesses, which are costing about 4% of gross previous remarks to the Foreign Secretary. A strategic domestic product, and the fact that since 1999 as much mistake is being made in respect of Europe. Europe is as £128 billion—it might be more now—has been lost failing. There is incredibly high unemployment in other to the British economy through over-regulation, we member states: Spain’s youth unemployment, for example, have to deal with these questions. That is the flipside of is 43%. Very serious damage is being done by burdens the idea of having a referendum on any further transfer on business—50% of all our economic regulation comes of competencies or powers. We have to deal with the from the EU—and there is a failure to provide oxygen existing European Union, not any future EU or any for the small business community in this country. The future extension of powers or competences. That is Bill does not, in my opinion, make any difference to something for the future; we have to deal with the EU as those matters. it is now, and it is doing great damage, in many respects, to the UK’s national interests. We have faced for some time now an economic crisis in Europe, but none of the measures—including the Mr Redwood: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who as 2020 strategy, which will be no more successful than the always is doing a great job on this issue. Will he agree Lisbon agenda, which had to be abandoned—will make that the legislation would be much more convincing if any substantial difference to the mistakes and distortions the very huge transfers of power now taking place—the associated with the European Union as it now is that power to regulate all our financial and banking services, continue to affect the United Kingdom. We need to the power in criminal justice and, soon, economic renegotiate the treaties, and the Bill will not change that governance powers—were to be the subject of a referendum fact. as a result of the Bill? At the beginning of our debates on the Bill, the European Scrutiny Committee proposed to have a proper Mr Cash: Indeed, it would. For example, the fact that investigation into it. I am sorry that the Foreign Secretary the City of London and its jurisdiction has legally been did not feel that he could attend, but I am glad that the transferred to the EU is an indictment of the trends in Minister for Europe came to see us, albeit somewhat the wrong direction. The landscape is changing in the late in the day. The Committee gave careful consideration wrong direction. With respect to the Foreign Secretary, to the Bill, but it is not evident that the Government the Prime Minister and other Ministers, I say that these paid very much attention to what has been described in matters need to be very carefully reviewed. All is not many quarters as one of the best Scrutiny Committee lost; the Bill is now going off to the House of Lords, reports produced in recent years. I am afraid that they and as I said earlier this evening, I hope that over the have substantially ducked the issue. next few months serious consideration will be given to I shall address a number of the points as they cropped the impact of the European proposals on the up. Much play was made of the idea that the Bill would competitiveness package, and the encroachments of reaffirm the sovereignty of the United Kingdom Parliament, European economic governance. I hope that these matters but when I tabled a motion to that effect the entire will be tackled. We need to ensure that we not only deal Conservative party, with some honourable exceptions, with future referendums, which we have been told will voted against it, which struck me as somewhat bizarre not happen until the next Parliament anyway—that is and extremely dangerous. some years away—but tackle the crisis and the danger that we should be addressing now. The European Scrutiny Committee report, which took evidence from many of this country’s pre-eminent I trust that the House will not mind me mentioning constitutional experts, came to certain very clear that today I published a new note—perhaps I might conclusions. First, we noted: even call it a pamphlet—entitled “Saving the British economy for the British people”. It sets out the history “Clause 18 did not address the competing primacies of EU of the stabilisation mechanism and how it has drawn us and national law”, into a dangerous situation regarding bail-outs. However, which is a matter of grave concern, and that on the I will not go down that route now, because I want to evidence we received, clause 18 was “not needed”. We return to what the European Scrutiny Committee said also concluded, on the evidence that we received, that about the Bill. We concluded that “If Parliament wills it may legislate to override the European “if the legislative supremacy of Parliament is under threat, it is Communities Act 1972 or the EU Treaties by repealing them, from judicial” 859 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 860

[Mr Cash] There is no presumption that merely because of the European Communities Act 1972 we have to accept as a supremacy.That is the problem. It is a British constitutional matter of compulsion whatever is served up to us by the problem, not only one of the assertions of the European European Union. If it is not in our national interest, we Court of Justice; it is an internal domestic constitutional must repudiate it. I see the Minister for Europe shaking question, as Professor Tomkins made clear in his superb his head. He knows that this is an important question, evidence. but he disagrees with me on it. I do not hold that We said: against him; I simply say that he is wrong. There are “we attach weight to the warnings expressed by Professor Tomkins those who will continue to argue that there is no way in if the Government maintains clause 18 in the EU Bill.” which we can override European legislation, but no way will those of us who take the view that we do change He spoke of the Bill overall as going our minds. We put the national interest first, and if “out of its way to invite litigation”. what is being done under European Union proposals is That is precisely the direction in which we do not want not in the national interest, we will have to override it. things to go. We need to be certain that the sovereignty There are many aspects of the Bill, including the of Parliament is a matter for Parliament and the people, whole problem of the creation of a two-tier Europe and not the judiciary or the Supreme Court, particularly in the extent to which a referendum is being denied to us the light of the trend shown in assertions by the likes of under clause 4, that will cause grave difficulties for us Lord Steyn, Lady Hale and Lord Hope of Craighead, over the next few months as we deal with the question all of which we looked at in detail in the evidence that of the eurozone and the countries that are not part of it. we received and the judgments reached when we concluded I regard this as a matter on which we will be judged as our review of that evidence. time goes on. On the exceptions, including clause 4, that Furthermore, we concluded: preclude a referendum on matters that will dramatically “Clause 18 is not a sovereignty clause in the manner claimed affect the United Kingdom—such as a two-tier Europe by the Government, and the whole premise on which it has been or an accession treaty—the Committee concluded: included in the Bill is, in our view, exaggerated.” “the exceptions…have been drafted to allow the Government to We were also concerned about the manner in which support certain EU policies, such as strengthening of the eurozone, the explanatory notes had been devised. We debated the including through harmonisation of economic, fiscal and social matter at length, concluding: measures if necessary…or enlargement, without triggering the referendum lock.” “The Explanatory Notes present as fact what the evidence we have received tells us is disputed, viewed from any perspective.” The reality is that we will need a referendum if the In other words, we were deeply dissatisfied with the way creation of a two-tier Europe affects the United Kingdom in which the explanatory notes dwelt on the idea of the in the way that we anticipate. If we are so affected, and common-law principle. Indeed, I moved an amendment we are put at a grave disadvantage, the responsibility to clause 18 in an attempt to remove it from the framework will lie with the Government for refusing to allow a of judicial interpretation, but that amendment too was referendum. We are not only moving towards a situation defeated by the Government. In fact, I would say—I say in which the creation of a new kind of Europe is in this with respect to the Foreign Secretary and my right prospect; we are on the brink of it. That landscape will hon. Friend the Minister for Europe—that despite the not be an attractive one unless we move down the route soft words that the Foreign Secretary offered at the of an association of nation states. The Foreign Secretary beginning of this debate, he knows well enough that we knows perfectly well that the arrangements in the Bill will not be put off or seduced by any flattery; we are do not deal with the present. They deal only with the interested in the arguments and the facts. future, but we are confronted as I speak with the present danger of a European system that does not serve our The European Scrutiny Committee analysed this Bill national interest. We must meet that challenge, and and found it wanting in many different ways. The other meet it now. thing to say about clause 18 is this: “The real point is whether a government can, in law, make it difficult for a future Parliament to amend or repeal the legislation 8.58 pm it has passed”— Mr Clappison: I congratulate my right hon. Friend in a word, the point that the shadow Foreign Secretary the Foreign Secretary on his speech this evening, and on made just now. We concluded firmly that his robust reaffirmation of parliamentary sovereignty “in our view it cannot. Our conclusion therefore is straightforward— and national democracy, which was very welcome to that an Act of Parliament applies until it is repealed.” those of us on this side of the House, at least. I also Sovereignty is not an arcane, theoretical or abstract thank him for the interest that he has taken in parliamentary question; it is, as I said in opening the inquiry, about the scrutiny of opt-in decisions in the important areas of vast array of activities and functions that have been freedom, security and justice, and the attempt by the conferred on the authority of the European Union by European Union to seize for itself the power to fashion the Lisbon treaty—a treaty that was passed by the our criminal law in this country. previous Government but has since been adopted by I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Minister for our Government, despite the fact that we opposed its Europe on the way in which he has taken the trouble to passage through the House tooth and nail when in respond to all these debates. He has done so patiently opposition—and how they affect the daily lives of the and thoroughly, and shown great expertise. He has had people and businesses of this country in such a wide a considerable amount of research behind him, and I variety of ways, making it essential that we reassert the think that the whole House is grateful to him for the right of Parliament to override those provisions if they exemplary way in which he has taken the Bill through are deemed not to be in our national interest. the Committee of the whole House. 861 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 862

I also congratulate the hon. Members for Wolverhampton for one or two important provisions. We know that the North East (Emma Reynolds) and for Caerphilly EU has a big programme in these areas and that many (Mr David) on their contributions to these debates, more of them are coming along. which have been very good humoured, and very effective I gently remind my right hon. and hon. Friends that in their own way. I congratulate, too, the shadow Foreign we promised in our manifesto that we would seek to Secretary, the right hon. Member for Paisley and repatriate powers to this country and certainly not give Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), on his speech this additional powers to the EU. The valuable opt-out that evening and for the foresight that he apparently possesses. we enjoy should be mentioned. It was a red line for the He seems to have an ability to see into the future. Little previous Labour Government, although created under did we know when we began our Second Reading pressure from Conservative Members, so we need to be debate on 7 December—or before that, when we promised very careful as a party that we go no further than Tony these measures in our manifesto—that the right hon. Blair and the previous Labour Government were prepared Gentleman would have foreseen the problems in the to go in providing the EU with an opportunity to make middle east before anyone else did. He also deserves the criminal law of this country. I believe that criminal to win some sort of prize for stringing together law belongs to a nation state: individual electors should unrelated issues in order to exploit them for maximum be able to have their democratic say about it, as should political advantage. That bodes well for his career in their Members of Parliament. opposition, if not for the credibility of his policies or I urge my right hon. Friends to be equally vigilant in particularly for the credibility of his party’s position on the important area of economic governance. We know Europe. that there is an agenda and we will look very carefully at Let me sound a note of caution to my hon. Friends. it in the future. We have seen reports in the press— On one or two occasions and again this evening, some apparently well-founded reports—that the European have suggested that the Bill and the referendum locks Union is, through the exercise of its trade policy, seeking will stop all transfer of power to Europe. That is not the to interfere with our immigration policy through the case, so we need to continue to be vigilant about the granting of visas as part of trade negotiations. That too transfers of power to Europe that can take place would constitute a transfer of power to the European notwithstanding this Bill. Union. The ability to determine who should be admitted The Bill requires a referendum for a transfer of to this country as an economic immigrant does not competence to Europe and in certain other specified belong to the European Union; it belongs to a nation instances, as well as for a movement from unanimity to state. We should make that determination, in accordance qualified majority voting. However, my right hon. and with our needs and with the promises we have made to hon. Friends will be aware that in a succession of the electorate on the important subject of immigration. treaties from Britain’s first membership of Europe I take heart from what has been said this evening by onwards—including particularly the important treaties my right hon. Friends the Ministers about that and of Maastricht and Lisbon—we have already transferred about the many other issues that will no doubt go to the a whole list of competences to the EU. That includes European Union. We know that the EU, particularly not just exclusive competences where only the EU can the Commission, is a beast that is hungry for power and act, but shared competences where if the EU chooses to is never satisfied, or at least has not been satisfied so far act it can extinguish national competence in the same in its history. Each time we have placed a safeguard in area and in supported competences. As I say, the list is the way to save ourselves from it, the EU has found a very long and it is backed by the jurisdiction of the way around that safeguard and dismantled it. European Court of Justice, which has shown its ingenuity Let us hope that things will be different in this in extending that jurisdiction, and by the appetite for instance, but I say to my right hon. Friends that they power of the European Commission. must be robust in the face of the EU’s demands. As well Each time the EU chooses to act, to exercise power in as the provisions in the Bill, we need Foreign Secretaries respect of one of those many areas of important and other Ministers who will go to Europe, be prepared competences that it already possesses and to make to say no and stand up for our national interests—and policy, it extinguishes our ability to make policy at a our supreme national interest is to preserve the ability national level in this Parliament. Each time it chooses to to decide our own futures and preserve the sovereignty make law, to bring in a regulation or to put in place a of our Parliament, which has been fought over, has directive for states to interpret, it is putting in place a taken so many years to establish, and is so grounded in law that takes precedence over our national law—and our history. the European Court of Justice will see to it that in any I urge my right hon. Friends to do that and I believe case of conflict, European law takes precedence over that they will, for I have great confidence in them. our national law. Certainly, if they do, they will find solid support among Notwithstanding the Bill’s provisions, there is considerable Government Members who will back them every inch scope for the European Union and its institutions to of the way when they go to Europe and say that this take more power from this House, from our country country is not prepared to abandon its opt-out and and from our electors. We can already see important choose to opt in, is not prepared to submit itself voluntarily examples coming along. I thus urge my right hon. and to economic governance by the European Union, and is hon. Friends to express the same degree of determination not prepared to abdicate from its proud democracy and to ensure national self-determination and parliamentary grant further powers to the European Union. sovereignty when we get to the occasions that we know lie I said that my right hon. Friends would have the before us in the not-too-distant—in fact, the immediate— support at least of Government Members, but they future, particularly in respect of freedom, security and should also bear in mind that the patience and credulity justice, where we have already agreed to certain opt-ins of the British public have been tested to breaking point 863 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 864

[Mr Clappison] extremely well. When countries had their own currencies, they had stable currencies relative to other currencies, by the European Union. People in this country are but they also had the ultimate possibility of devaluation aware of the promises that have been made about the or revaluation, as necessary. Each country chose its own transfer of power to Europe, and if they find that yet monetary and fiscal policies. That is not just about more power has been transferred to the European Union, democracy; it is about making the world economy work their patience will be tested beyond that breaking point. better. The grave disillusionment that they undeniably feel with Many other Committee members have spoken. I had the EU, which expresses itself in so many ways—for the pleasure of being a signatory to a number of example, in their disenchantment with its lack of amendments that were supported by Members on both accountability—will then extend to the politicians and sides of the House. On one or two occasions, I had the leaders who are perceived to have given away yet more opportunity to vote for these amendments. Interestingly, powers to it. I voted for amendments that were against a Conservative However, I am confident that that will not arise. Let and Liberal Democrat coalition Government, but I was me say in particular to my right hon. Friend the Foreign regarded as rebelling. My local newspaper said I was a Secretary—to whom the country owes a great debt of rebel because I had voted against a Conservative and gratitude for the principled stand that he has taken over Liberal Democrat Government, which is very strange. the euro and many other issues—that he will have the We have heard some witty and very worthy, clever full support of Government Members if he complements and excellent speeches from both sides of the House, the Bill’s provisions by going to Europe and seeing which I welcome, but I think that behind all these clever through the robust words that he has uttered this evening. speeches there is still a desire among the upper echelons He will deserve all our support if he does that, as I am of the political class to retain real power in the EU sure that he will. within that political class and prevent it from being put in the hands of the electorates. In many EU countries, 9.7 pm the Eurosceptics have been stripped of all positions. Indeed, in respect of my own party, the previous Kelvin Hopkins: The hon. Member for Hertsmere Government introduced under Tony Blair a list system (Mr Clappison) made a fine speech, and I agreed with of proportional representation. That enabled the party every word of it. Let me too congratulate the hon. to strip out all Eurosceptics from the European Member for Stone (Mr Cash), who chairs the European parliamentary party and to make sure that all European Scrutiny Committee, of which I am a member. Several Members were onside with the EU. It also lost us scores other members of the Committee have contributed to of seats, but that was a minor sacrifice compared with this and earlier debates, and I think that all its members, the importance to previous leaders of making sure that on both sides of the House, do an excellent job. all the Members of the European Parliament in our I support the Bill to an extent, but I will become a party were on the side of the EU. Unfortunately, it also true believer only when the first referendum takes place enabled certain extreme parties to get seats in the European under it. I look forward to voting in that referendum, Parliament. I put it to both Front-Bench teams that we whatever its subject. Indeed, I think that any referendum should return to a single-Member seat, first-past-the-post on the European Union would be welcomed not just by electoral system for the EU. I look forward to that day, me but by the British people. They have long wanted to and I hope that we will achieve it. express a view. Some Members talked about the possibility of other Throughout the European Union, the Euro- opt-outs. I would like to think that at some point a barometer—the measure of support for the EU—has member state—perhaps Britain—might choose to opt been sinking for years. Its level is particularly low in out of something of which they are currently a member. Germany at present. Only yesterday, The Times reported I suggest as a starting point giving notice that in five that there was a serious possibility that the agreement years—or whenever—we will opt out of the common on a scheme to bail out the weaker euro members in fisheries policy and restore our control over British view of their present difficulties would fail because the fisheries, and thereby restore the fishing stocks and stop German electorate are very hostile to the idea that the nonsense of discards. Germany should effectively bail out other countries There are so many things we could say about the EU, that may eventually include Portugal, Spain and who but the fundamental point is that the people of Britain knows where else, as well as Ireland and Greece. That and of all member states want a greater say in what would cause serious problems for Angela Merkel in happens to the EU. I do not think they like the euro, Germany. It is not all over yet. and I do not think they like the sense of being controlled I think we were very wise to stay out of the euro, and, by a bureaucratic regime in Brussels. They want to have like the Foreign Secretary, I do not believe we should democratic control through their member states. That ever join it. Indeed, I think there is now a serious way, we can have better relations between those member possibility that the euro will be progressively dismantled—I states, because then we will feel free to be friendly with will not say that it will collapse—and that we will return other states as we will have control of our own country to something like the Deutschmark zone and other and will not be controlled by anybody else. Coming single currencies. Countries could then adjust their together on a voluntary basis as a friendly, comradely currencies according to their own needs and be able to association of member states is the future for Europe choose their own fiscal and monetary policies. That is that I think would be overwhelmingly preferred by the how economies will work together. There will be shock millions of people of all the European nations. absorbers between economies, which is the way it should I am happy to support the Bill, but I would like it to be. The arrangements in the post-war settlement worked be stronger. 865 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 866

9.14 pm would like. The noise that is coming in opposition to the Bill only strengthens the Minister’s hands in getting this Chris Heaton-Harris: I, too, thank the Minister for through. Europe for being so precise in many of his answers to the questions that we have raised. I also thank my hon. 9.18 pm Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) for asking Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): I wish to raise just a few more awkward questions than I would ever dare, and points, but I first wish to welcome the Bill and the the Labour Front Benchers for adding to the debate, introduction of the referendum lock. I congratulate the although they did so only partially because they just sat Minister for Europe on the way in which he has addressed there really. However, I did welcome the contribution many of the concerns raised during the passage of the made by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North Bill, particularly as regards my amendments and new East (Emma Reynolds). It was probably the most coherent clauses. I thank him for his perseverance with me and of the lot, so I congratulate her. my arguments. He has given some strong commitments The shadow Foreign Secretary’s remarks about the on transparency in the EU, on improving cost-benefit Government taking their eye off the ball when it should analysis, and on having better impact assessments and have been concentrating on these important matters more EU legislation held to account in this Parliament. were slightly unfair, especially as they came from someone He has also rightly given us warm words on ending the who, when in a slightly more junior job on the Government era of Departments gold-plating directives and legislation Benches, was known in European circles for going from Europe, as well as on the long overdue one in, one missing, not all the time, but on one particular occasion. out rule for European regulations. He was being called to speak in the European Parliament The Bill will safeguard against some European power by President Borrell when he unfortunately stepped out grabs—which is of course more than important, long to take a very important phone call and left just an overdue and welcome—but, alas, not them all. As my empty chair next to a startled UK official. President right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said earlier, the Borrell did not know who the then Minister for Europe Bill is not a panacea for all the EU’s ills, but it is clearly was or what he looked like—he had been told he was a a step in the right direction. There are areas where the young precocious man who was raring to go—and so, EU already exercises competence, as laid down in the thinking that the UK official was the right hon. Member Lisbon treaty, and where it can secure more powers for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), he from Britain, without the need for any safeguard in called him to speak. In the end, a cross and flustered Parliament or by triggering the referendum lock in the Minister rushed into the Strasbourg plenary session to Bill. The Bill does not deal with those matters, but I catcalls, boos, whistles and derogatory laughter—and continue to urge the Government to do everything that was after he gave his speech. It is the way his possible to prevent British interests from being undermined Government handled these European issues that makes in that way. I would press the Government to work this European Union Bill all the more important. towards repatriating powers from Europe to this country, to protect our sovereignty and to renegotiate our financial Just about everyone who has spoken has taken on contributions and the colossal sums of money that we board and asked the Minister for more clarification hand over every year to the EU. about one surprisingly consensual part of this Bill. That Finally, as we know, the Bill deals with the EU, but as is the general dissatisfaction with the way we scrutinise we have seen with prisoner votes recently, this country’s EU legislation in this place. We talk about this quite a ability to make its own laws is being undermined by lot, but a written ministerial statement made a number another European body: the Council of Europe and its of vague proposals. I know it was an invitation for this Strasbourg-based institutions, with their increasing desire House to do more, but will the Minister say what he to exert control over our country and to undermine would expect this House to do to take him up on this Parliament and British democracy, and the regular issuing offer? Does it involve the Chairman of the European of diktats that the European Court of Human Rights Scrutiny Committee writing a letter to him, forming a considers but that escape parliamentary scrutiny.I therefore team with ministerial officials and taking this matter briefly urge the Minister and the Foreign Secretary to forward? Everybody in this place wants to do the job of consider introducing a similar package of measures and scrutinising European legislation better and we would reforms to improve the democratic accountability of like to know exactly what the slightly vague couple of those institutions and to ensure that British laws, as we sentences in the written ministerial statement actually have heard throughout the passage of the Bill, are made mean. in Britain by the British, and that we effectively put the The Bill now goes down the Corridor and the strange national interest first. noises we hear in the background are those of tombs opening and biographies being dusted down by the 9.21 pm great and the good of the former diplomatic service, Mr Bone: It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. who intend to remind everybody of how everything was Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel), who, as so much better when they were left to operate behind usual, made a powerful speech and, of course, mentioned closed doors with few checks or balances and how those the colossal amount of money that we give to the bloomin’ elected people, of all political persuasions, European Union for redistribution. In other words, it is down the other end of the Corridor are wrong because rather like foreign aid, except perhaps that it is not used they always try to react to public opinion. I would like for the best purpose. Under the last five years of the to think that one of the strongest arguments for this Bill Labour Government, £19.8 billion net was given to the is the fact that we are dragging all this out into the open European Union. Unfortunately, under the first five and binding the hands of Ministers when they go into years of the coalition Government, the figure will be negotiations in Europe, although not as much as I twice that amount, and she made a powerful point. 867 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 868

[Mr Bone] the record straight on his behalf, as he has been not only my colleague, but my very good friend, for many years, Earlier today, I visited Lancaster House for international including when I was fighting elections in south Wales women’s day and the launch of the fund for groups that and attracting record numbers of votes cast against me. want to help the victims of human trafficking. It was At one time, I had an unofficial competition on that brought to my attention by Maria Grazia Giammarinaro, with my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere who is a United Nations special representative and (Mr Clappison), who himself had been a valiant by-election co-ordinator for combating trafficking in human beings, candidate in another part of the country. I think I won that such things do not stop at the European Union; that contest. they go much further and cross borders. In that context, I was very attracted by the speech When we started to debate the Bill many weeks ago, made by the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin my hopes were raised that we would discuss much wider Hopkins), who reminded us that, at one time, there used issues than we got round to discussing. Tonight, of to be such a thing as socialist MEPs representing the course, we have heard a lot of powerful speeches. I must British Labour party. I remember standing against one praise our Front-Bench team. Obviously, whenever I in 1994 who beat me by an Olympian margin, but whom listen to the Foreign Secretary, I am always convinced I distinctly recall saying in a public meeting, when asked by his arguments, even when he is totally wrong. Again, about the four freedoms, with which we are all familiar I was convinced tonight. When the shadow Secretary of as underpinning the treaty of Rome, that he disagreed State spoke, he absolutely convinced me that the with every one of them. His approach was rather more Government were totally correct. of the school of Joseph Stalin than that of Jean Monnet. The shadow Secretary of State did not say—I should I am almost nostalgic for those days, and I am sure that have liked to intervene to ask him—whether, when the there are Labour Members who share that nostalgia. Bill becomes law and if Labour Members ever came to To come fully up to date, this has been a thought- power again, they would actually honour it. Of course, provoking debate not only on Third Reading but in we are now talking about fixed-term Parliaments, so it Committee and on Report. In particular, during is quite possible that Labour Members will be sitting on consideration on Report today, we had an interesting the Government Benches without a general election, and important debate about how the House will deal but the right hon. Gentleman did not answer and with issues relating to the EU. My hon. Friend the avoided saying whether they would support the referendum Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) asked one lock. of the most important questions of Ministers: how are Obviously, my hon. Friend the Member for Stone we, together, to develop a proper system by which we (Mr Cash) has for years led the battle for sense in the not only scrutinise European proposals and legislation European Union. Now that he is Chair of the European but behave more proactively? In other words, how do Scrutiny Committee, we seem to be getting a lot more we initiate thematic debates about the future of the EU, European business in the House. That is to be wholly whether that be on issues such as enlargement, external welcomed, at least by myself. He told us about his trade or the environment? We could take our pick. pamphlet, which, I understand, is for sale in all good It is time for a far more proactive approach to be bookshops, but he did not tell us one thing: how many taken. Far too often, we have simply reacted to the euros it costs. proposals emanating from the European Commission. As usual, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere Like all good democrats, a lot of us have a problem with (Mr Clappison) made the most powerful of speeches the concept of a civil service that initiates policy. That with which I agreed entirely. That brings me on to the has fundamentally over the years vexed many British Minister for Europe, who has been in his usual great parliamentarians, who are used to a system of a civil humour and on top of everything. He has been an service that enacts policy initiated by elected politicians— absolutely wonderful No. 2, but it is obvious that when although between 1997 and 2010 that line was sadly the reshuffle comes, perhaps on 6 May, he will be blurred. That is the fundamental dilemma that has promoted to a Cabinet role. The obvious answer for the faced many of us over the years when we have wrestled new Minister for Europe is my hon. Friend the Member with the issue of the EU. for Hertsmere. May I put in that bid? I was amused by the contribution made by the right The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South who spoke from the Opposition Benches, was wonderful. (Mr Alexander), the shadow Foreign Secretary. After He made his normal pro-European speech, which was 13 years in which the locusts ate on Europe, it takes a lot against the EU. It is a great shame that all the Members of chutzpah to stand up and lecture the Conservative on that side of the House do not share his views. party and this Government on their approach to the Recently, I was in Portugal on human trafficking EU. We had a 13-year vacuum—policy inertia, confusion business. I learned a lot about the EU there and was and chaos—which was another chapter in the history of able to discuss the European Union Bill with the person a political party whose stance on Europe has veered sat next to me at dinner, who was a communist. I found from the ridiculous to the even more ridiculous. I may that the Portuguese Communist party and I have a lot still be a fairly young person, but I remember facing a in common—we both want to come out of the EU. Labour party not so many years ago that advocated withdrawal from the European Union. 9.25 pm The proper debate on Europe has in the main, with a Mr Buckland: I am sure that my hon. Friend the few honourable exceptions in the Opposition, remained Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) meant that he fairly and squarely within the confines of the Conservative was on all-party parliamentary business on human party. I make no apology at all for the fact that at times trafficking in Portugal, and I am more than happy to set the debate has become heated—some would say 869 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 870 acrimonious—and difficult for the Conservative party, Several hon. Members rose— but in 2011 perhaps it is time for us to stand back, take stock and accept the fact that with that debate comes Mr Speaker: Order. The winding-up speeches will creative energy. I like to see the Bill as another example begin at 9.45 pm. I am keen to accommodate two of that energy. further speeches before then, if humanly possible. The Bill is by no means an end. It is a mere stage, but an important stage which reflects the fact that the era of 9.35 pm professional diplomats making decisions in closed rooms Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): It is a privilege has gone, as it should have done. Now is the time for a to follow my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon reconnection between politicians and the public. What (Mr Buckland). I, too, pay tribute to the Minister for better way to do that than via the mechanism of Europe; if the debates have confirmed only one thing in referendums? The Bill makes that important concession my mind, it is that he and I are poles apart. For me and and makes it in a careful and considered way. many of my constituents, it has been sad to watch a I have always been somebody who can be described once-proud sovereign nation hand over more and more as positive about our membership of the European powers to Europe. This federal beast grows bigger by Union. I make no apology for that. I made the same the day, and those it does not seduce it consumes. I have point on Second Reading. I have been convinced for a warning for our party at the ballot box: unless we take many years about the economic and political case for a tough stance on Europe, we will pay dearly at the next our active and leading membership of that institution. I general election. am, however, deeply sceptical about moves towards Labour promised us a referendum on the Lisbon further European integration when it comes to the treaty and reneged on that promise. We have inherited a criminal law, for example, jurisprudential issues or the thoroughly unsatisfactory situation which we hope the encroachment of the judiciary on matters that are properly Bill will somehow mitigate. I welcome the opportunity the province of this place and of politics. to call a referendum on any proposed EU treaty or My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) is treaty change that transfers more powers to the EU, but right when he reiterates in his eloquent way the point I have grave reservations about whether those measures about judicial encroachment. He is right to say that that will prove effective. is not a problem peculiar to the institutions of Europe. It is important to remind the House that five new It cuts right across the balance of power domestically. powers have already been transferred: a European action The decision of the previous Government to create a service has been created; the European arrest warrant Supreme Court, which was a regrettable and mistaken has been extended; EU regulations have been imposed decision, reinforces the creation of two cultures—a on the City; EU oversight on our national budget has culture of judicial interference and judicial we-know- been agreed to; and our contribution to the EU budget bestness, as opposed to a culture of political control has been increased, despite our objection. As I understand and power exercised by democratic representatives of it, the Bill would not have prevented any of those the people. transfers of power. Nobody in the House can safely say that we are out Even the significant clause 18 is under siege from of the woods on that issue. It is one of the defining various legal interpretations. Some highly respected issues of our times. It was wise of Ministers to accept Members of this House do not believe that it will the fact that there are aspects of the Bill that will be safeguard our sovereignty, and I agree with them. I pay subject to judicial review. The Bill is no exception to a particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for general rule that whatever Bill the House and the other Stone (Mr Cash) for all the work he does to stand up for place pass, we are increasingly at the mercy of applications the national interest. It is not a bit of fish or meat for for judicial review. That is not something that we will be the Eurosceptics, as the Opposition claim. The truth is able to resolve tonight, but from tonight we will be able that it is done in the national interest. to move forward to the new approach to the development Every day there is further evidence of Europe’s creeping of policy on Europe that all of us in the House want to influence on our laws, liberties and livelihoods. This see—an openness from Ministers at the Dispatch Box, a week alone, anti-discrimination legislation has been frankness in assessing the importance of decisions made interpreted in the most extraordinary way by the European by the Council of Ministers, and a real partnership Court of Justice, which has ruled that insurance companies between those of us who sit on the Back Benches as may no longer differentiate between men and women. legislators and those who sit on the Front Bench as our In calculating pension annuities, the Court has decreed representatives in the Councils of Europe. that payouts must be the same, despite evidence that I will end on this note: there is a salutary lesson from women live longer—I think I understand why. Similarly, history about the dangers of Executives being too far women will face higher driver insurance premiums, removed from the will of the legislature on matters of although statistics prove that they are involved in fewer foreign policy. Let us remember what happened to accidents than men. Both rulings are imposed on us by President Wilson when he came back from the Paris a foreign court and by judges who are unaccountable peace conference as the leader of the political world and unelected. Surely it is time for this country to stand about to take a brave new stride into the League of up for itself. Nations, only to find that his legislature was not with If any referendum should be held, it should be the him. At a stroke, American foreign policy was changed. one that we were promised. We all know what the There needs to be a careful interlink between the will of outcome would be. Then, and only then, would the lion the House and what our Ministers do in the Councils of that once was this country roar again. Once more, we Europe, which is why I support the Bill as an important would be in charge of our economy, our laws, our step forward in that process. rights, our borders and immigration, to name but a few 871 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 872

[Richard Drax] Mr Redwood: That’s great; I am very glad that I have the support, from a sedentary position, of Labour’s matters. I shall be voting with the Government tonight Back Benchers. if the Bill is pressed to a vote, because it is better than If this Parliament is never prepared to legislate against nothing. I remain deeply sceptical that it is nothing the views and wishes of the European Union, people more than a fig leaf, but frankly, a fig leaf is perhaps will rightly conclude that the European Union is now better than running around, vulnerable, in the buff. sovereign. I mentioned in earlier debates on this legislation that the Crown remained sovereign for a long time in 9.39 pm our country, and that Parliament whittled its powers Mr Redwood: I, like my right hon. and hon. Friends, away. There is no precise date on which people all agree welcome the two aims of this legislation. The first, to that the Crown ceased to be sovereign and that Parliament hold a referendum on any future transfer of power, is replaced it, but the situation illustrates that, if we make vital to try to secure some democratic legitimacy for too many concessions, make too many mistakes and what might happen next. The second, to assert that this grant too many powers on lease, one day we will not be House and Parliament in general is sovereign, even over able to get those powers back. The Crown discovered European law, is excellent, but I hope that Ministers will that it had given away too many powers and lost too take away from this debate the great sense of unease many battles, and perhaps power finally resolved to among many colleagues, who feel that the Bill does not Parliament on the day when they murdered—or killed—the deliver what Ministers say it intends to. King. That was a fairly definitive act, but it took place after a long series of battles and struggles when power As my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset had been ebbing away from the monarchy—and the (Richard Drax) just said, we face a large transfer of monarchy was invited back. powers in all sorts of areas at the moment—in criminal justice, in City and business regulation, in the External I want no such violence in resolving the issue with the Action Service and, soon, in economic governance. Any European Union, but I do want some political strength one of those areas would deserve a referendum, but the and some political substance. Surely, the European whole lot together would make a good package for Union now does so many things that rile the British testing out the Government’s new enthusiasm for democracy people that we should take matters into our own hands. and the debating skills of the Opposition, who say that As my right hon. Friends on the Front Bench will that is exactly what the British public want. What is always want to be diplomatic and to negotiate, I give stopping them, other than fear and the belief that, them this final thought in the few minutes that I am perhaps, the British public would not vote for such allowed. The Germans, for their own reasons, think that measures after all? they need a treaty change to accommodate the bail-out I am also worried about the assertion of the activities and the huge increase in economic governance parliamentary sovereignty clause. My hon. Friend the powers that they intend to take over the other member Member for Stone (Mr Cash) has probed and tested it, states of euroland. They need our signature on that, and there are legal dangers on the route that we are now even though we are not a member state of euroland. taking. Sovereignty is something that we have for a I do not believe for one moment that we will be period if we are prepared to use it, but it is also possible exempted from many of the requirements for information to let it slip away or to lose it, and we cannot make this and common policy formation and negotiated solutions, Parliament sovereign by a single clause in a piece of even if we are opted out for the time being from the legislation. It means nothing. This Parliament will be power of the fine. We will be dragged into the situation. sovereign again only if it wishes to be; this Parliament I wish the Government would not only say, “We have no will be sovereign again only if it has some political will; intention of being dragged into it and seek clearer this Parliament will be sovereign again only on the day language,” but to confirm that, say, “As proof of good it says to the European Union, “We disagree with you faith, we want economic powers back.”The latest language on this. Youwill not give us what we want by negotiation, from the Government suggests that we are going to so we are going to legislate for ourselves.” Ministers keep control over the main elements of our taxation should not pretend that this Bill has resolved the problem. system, not our taxation system as a whole—a red line Let us take the issue of fish. I have heard Ministers, that the previous Government always said that they had from all parties that have been in government, say to the attempted to preserve. We can see the drift in economic House that they, like me, thoroughly disagree with the powers and economic governance. discard policy, think that it is wrong and intend to The British Government must stand up for British negotiate a better answer. No better answer has been interests. They will have no better chance than the new negotiated. We gave the European Union 20 years’ treaty that is about to be negotiated—so please, warning. Why do we not simply legislate now to take Government, use it, don’t lose it. ourselves out of the common fisheries policy and show that this Parliament is sovereign and works in the 9.45 pm interests of the British people and a great British industry. Mr David: As we come to the end of this Third Mr Davidson: Will the right hon. Gentleman give Reading debate, it is worth reflecting on the impact that way? the Bill has had on Britain’s standing in Europe and the world. With unemployment rising and living standards Mr Redwood: I do not have time, otherwise I would falling, and with people the length and breadth of be very happy to. Britain concerned about the health service and the education of their children, this Government have placed Mr Davidson: You have the support of Labour’s Back before Parliament a Bill that is monumentally irrelevant Benchers! to the needs of this country. 873 European Union Bill8 MARCH 2011 European Union Bill 874

Although there are parts of the Bill that Labour the United States valued the special relationship between Members support, I believe that we have demonstrated the US and Britain. However, he thought that it was that large sections of it are ill conceived, ill thought out also vital for Britain to play a strong role within the EU. and contradictory. While the Government have singularly Because of the negativity caused by the Bill, Mr Susman failed, and did not even try, to address the issues that felt that it was necessary for the UK to rule out withdrawal are at the forefront of the minds of the British people, from the EU. I am pleased that the Prime Minister has they have succeeded in sending a clear message to our done that. The United States recognises, even if this partners in Europe—that this Government do not have Government do not, that Britain’s influence in the a coherent European policy. Where we should have world requires it to be an active participant in the EU. consistency and vision, we see inconsistency and ambiguity. After consideration in this House, the Bill will go to Instead of promoting our national interest in the European the other place. I sincerely believe that it will be scrutinised Union with vigour and determination, we see a Government in detail, and that its fundamental flaws will be not only ignoring the reality of the modern world—a Government criticised, but corrected. As it stands, the Bill will lead who look in on themselves and see bilateralism as a to a questioning of our parliamentary democracy, a simplistic alternative to the multilateral engagement weakening of Britain’s role in the world, and a diminution that is vital in a fast-changing world. of our influence in the EU. The British people deserve Such an approach is determined not by what is in better, and I hope—indeed, I am confident—that the Britain’s national interest but by political expediency other place will bring about the much-needed change. that places above all else the maintenance of an unholy coalition of pro-European Liberal Democrats and 9.51 pm Conservative Eurosceptics. However, as the seven days of debate on this Bill have demonstrated, the Eurosceptics Mr Lidington: I thank all Members who have taken have recognised that this Bill is a ham-fisted attempt to part not merely in today’s debate, but during the seven placate them—and if that has been the intention, it has days of debate that we have devoted to the European clearly failed. I disagree with many of the arguments of Union Bill. I also pay tribute to the team of officials in the Eurosceptics, but I recognise their honesty and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. They have worked tenacity. I pay particular tribute to the hon. Member for tirelessly for very long hours, frequently at weekends, to Stone (Mr Cash) for his work and that of his Committee, ensure that the Foreign Secretary and I have been the European Scrutiny Committee. Without their hard briefed, and that our responses to the debates have work and the excellent documents that they have produced, taken account of the various and detailed points raised the debates in this House would have been nowhere by individual Members from all parts of the House. near as good as they were. Our officials have demonstrated a commitment to impartial If the Government have failed to buy off the hon. public service in the best traditions of the British civil Member for Stone and his colleagues, they have failed, service. equally, to convince prominent Liberal Democrats that As the Foreign Secretary said, we owe a debt of their anti-European tone is more apparent than real. gratitude to all who have played their part in the Only this morning, I received a copy of a letter sent by a comprehensive examination of the Bill. Why the hon. federalist Liberal Democrat MEP who is a former Member for Caerphilly (Mr David) ever dreamed that leader of the Lib Dems in the European Parliament— my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) could Mr Andrew Duff. Mr Duff has written to the President be bought off, I cannot imagine. Having worked as a of the European Parliament, Jerzy Buzek, proposing a colleague of my hon. Friend for nearly 19 years, and new treaty provision. It is interesting to see what he has having had dealings with him even before I entered the written. I quote from his letter: House, I am in no doubt whatsoever about his principle, “Dear Jerzy…As you will be well aware, the British Parliament tenacity and utter rectitude in refusing to be bought off is about to enact a law which will install and entrench referendums by any Minister of any Government while he has served as part of the UK’s national ratification process for all important in this House. amendments of the European Union treaties…That being the case, I believe the time has come to lighten somewhat the European The debates on the Bill have enabled us to identify, in Union’s procedure for treaty revision…I propose that” large part through the assiduous work of my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), the European areas where there were gaps in the Bill’s realisation of “Parliament launches an initiative…so that all future treaty revisions policy intent, and have allowed us to bring forward will enter into force once they have been ratified by four fifths of amendments. The debates have also provided an occasion the States.” for the House to reflect more broadly on issues of This means that Mr Duff wants to abolish the need for parliamentary scrutiny. My hon. Friend asked me a unanimity among member states and is quite happy for very direct question. The Government are in the initial treaty changes to be imposed on the British people and stages of considering what sort of arrangements we the British Parliament. If anything shows how the Bill wish to pursue. Although I have met my hon. Friend the has exposed the fault lines in this hapless coalition, it is Member for Stone and the Chairman of the Scrutiny that absolutely ridiculous letter from the Liberal Democrat, Committee in the Lords, I have yet to meet the Chairs Andrew Duff. of the Select Committees on Justice and on Home To be serious, one of the most worrying consequences Affairs, who clearly have an interest in the justice and of the Bill is that it seriously questions Britain’s full home affairs measures that are coming forward under participation in the European Union. Nowhere has that Title V. been more keenly demonstrated than in the comments I believe that it is for Parliament to determine how it of the United States ambassador to the United Kingdom. collectively wishes to pursue the issue. It may be that Just a few weeks ago, Ambassador Susman stated that other Select Committees, such as the Liaison Committee 875 European Union Bill 8 MARCH 2011 876

[Mr David Lidington] legitimacy in this country. By passing it, we can start to rebuild public trust by returning greater power to the or the Backbench Business Committee, wish to take British people, from whom it derives. That is what the views or seek opportunities to debate the matter more Bill does, and that is why I commend it to the House. broadly. I make no presumption as to what the outcome Question put and agreed to. will be, and I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Stone told me sternly that Parliament would not be told Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. by the Government what scrutiny it should carry out, and that it would come forward with its own thoughts and opinions. I look forward to a vigorous and constructive Business without Debate debate about the shape of future scrutiny arrangements. The Bill represents an important advance, not least because all parties represented in the House support the WELSH GRAND COMMITTEE principle of it. None voted against it on Second Reading, Ordered, and even the Labour party now accepts, in the words of That— its amendment to the Second Reading motion, that (1) the matter of the Budget as it relates to Wales be referred to “the principle of referendums on significant constitutional and the Welsh Grand Committee for its consideration; monetary changes is appropriate”. (2) the Committee shall meet at Westminster on Wednesday That is a real breakthrough, a belated recognition by 30 March at 9.30 am and 2.30 pm to consider— the Opposition that for too long, major decisions on (a) a Ministerial statement by the Chief Secretary to the Europe’s future have been taken without the consent of Treasury, proceeded with under Standing Order No. 105 (Welsh the British people—the very mischief that the Bill addresses Grand Committee (ministerial statements)); and seeks to put right. (b) the matter referred to it under paragraph (1) above; As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said a (3) the Chair shall interrupt proceedings at the afternoon short while ago, the Bill does not address, and is not sitting not later than two hours after their commencement at that intended to address, every problem and challenge to do sitting.—(Stephen Crabb.) with the UK’s relationship with the European Union. We take as our starting point the distribution of competences laid down by the treaties, an approach that DELEGATED LEGISLATION does not go as far as a number of my hon. Friends would like. However, I say to my hon. Friend the Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) that we will Order No. 118(6)), indeed be vigilant in examining the proposals coming forward from the European Commission or other member ECCLESIASTICAL LAW states in respect of the competences that the EU already has. That the draft Grants to the Churches Conservation Trust The Bill embodies three fundamental principles: that Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 13 January, be the British people, and they alone, should have the final approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) say on whether new competences or powers should be Question agreed to. transferred from this place to the European Union; that Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Government should be more accountable to both Order No. 118(6)), Parliament and the British people for the decisions that we take in Europe on behalf of the UK; and that Parliament should have more say over treaty changes LOCAL GOVERNMENT and the use of ratchet clauses. That the draft Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England There are plenty of things that are wrong with the and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2011, which were laid EU and plenty of flaws in it, and we have heard a lot before this House on 2 February, be approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) about them during the debates on the Bill, but I believe Question agreed to. that there are also many things that we can and should Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing do together with our partners in the EU to secure the Order No. 118(6)), greater prosperity and security of this country and the continent of which we form part. That is why the Government believe it is in the interests of the UK to be ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION active and activist within Europe, and that we need to That the draft Marine Licensing (Licence Application Appeals) engage effectively and energetically with our European Regulations 2011, which were laid before this House on 7 February, partners to secure common objectives. be approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) If that is to succeed, however, we have to address the Question agreed to. disconnection that exists between the British people Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing and the way in which decisions are taken on their behalf Order No. 118(6)), in Europe. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Caerphilly suggested, I find sympathy from European counterparts to whom I talk privately, because they are ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION aware that public disaffection is felt in many other That the draft Marine Licensing (Notices Appeals) Regulations member states, not just here. The Bill, which is intended 2011, which were laid before this House on 7 February, be to remedy that disconnection between the public and approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) the EU, is an essential requirement of the EU’s democratic Question agreed to. 877 Business without Debate8 MARCH 2011 Business without Debate 878

PETITIONS residential schools and adults in residential care will deny thousands of disabled people the chance to live full and independent lives. Higham Hopper Bus Service The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government not to cut the Disability Living Allowance Mobility Component for people living in residential care—including 10.1 pm children attending residential schools. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Mrs Hale, And the Petitioners remain, etc. from Higham Ferrers, is a doughty lady, and she is [P000894] campaigning to keep the Higham Hopper bus service. The petition states: Refurbishment of Hillbourne School, Poole The Humble Petition of residents of Higham Ferrers, Northamptonshire and surrounding areas, 10.4 pm Sheweth that there is a considerable and ongoing need for the Higham Hopper bus service; that this is a vital mode of transport Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I should like to thank for the elderly and people with mobility problems; and that it is of Poole borough council, and Councillors Judy Butt, the greatest importance that this bus service continues to provide John Rampton and Les Burden, for taking up this transport for residents in Higham Ferrers and the surrounding petition. areas. The petition states: Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your Honourable House urges the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government The Petition of residents of the Borough of Poole, to request that Northamptonshire county council, in conjunction Declares that Hillbourne School in Creekmoor Ward is in with East Northamptonshire District Council and Higham Ferrers urgent need of refurbishment. parish council, explores ways in which the Higham Hopper bus The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons service can continue to operate. asks the Department for Education to make the school the And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. highest priority for resources as they become available. [P000893] And the Petitioners remain, etc. Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance [P000895] Regulation of Bus Services (Leeds) 10.2 pm Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): I 10.5 pm should like to present a petition on behalf of the Muscular Dystrophy campaign. It has been signed by Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I would nearly 1,200 people who are opposed to the proposed like to present a petition on behalf of the residents of changes to disability living allowance. Leeds and supporters of the Fairer Fares campaign convened by Leeds campaigner Stuart Long, and the The petition states: Leeds student bus campaign organised by Leeds university The Petition of supporters of Muscular Dystrophy Campaign union. and others, Declares that the Mobility Component of Disability Living The petition states: Allowance (DLA) helps to meet the higher costs of accessible The Petition of residents of Leeds and supporters of the Fairer public transport (where available), or makes an individual eligible Fares Campaign, for an adapted vehicle through the Motability scheme; that without Declares that the Petitioners believe that there is a need for DLA mobility component, thousands of adults of all ages with Leeds to have a regulated bus service that provides a regular severe disabilities who are supported by the state to live in service for the community, with an honest fare that is not just for residential care will be unable to retain voluntary employment or profit; and notes that such a bus service must provide an improved simply to visit family and friends; that many families with children customer service that helps the people of Leeds in their day to day attending residential schools will not be able to fund their own lives. adapted vehicle, and as residential schools only provide transport The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons for the start and end of term, with no extra provision for weekends urges the Government to take steps to regulate the bus service in or holidays, disabled children may end up stuck as prisoners in Leeds and to ensure that the service is honest and reliable. their own home during school holidays, unable to take part in leisure activities, or even attend essential hospital appointments; And the Petitioners remain, etc. and that the decision to cut this vital benefit for children in [P000896] 879 8 MARCH 2011 Humanitarian Disasters 880

Humanitarian Disasters response, which demonstrated the continuing need for reform, but Haiti’s long-term poverty and instability Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House have also been factors. do now adjourn.—(James Duddridge.) Nevertheless, what happened in Haiti is one reason why approximately 263 million people were devastated 10.6 pm by natural disasters in 2010—110 million more than in Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): the year of the tsunami. Experts predict that by 2015, Mr Speaker, I am grateful to you for selecting this some 375 million people will be affected as climate subject for debate, and to have not only the Minister change increases the risk of natural disasters, the vast who will respond to the debate but the Secretary of majority of them living on less than $1 a day. Many will State in the Chamber. also be affected by conflict, but although the needs of The number of people affected by natural disasters, people affected by conflict and the agencies involved in such as earthquakes, cyclones, famines and so on, is set responding can both be similar, in this debate I want to to increase hugely over the coming years. Crucially, the focus on purely natural disasters. international community’s ability to respond needs to I am an unashamed fan of the amazing British continue to improve too. I sought this debate because I development NGOs that respond to disasters. I have worry that the trend is in the wrong direction. Oxfam, had many times the honour and privilege of seeing or in its evidence to the Minister’s humanitarian response hearing about the courage, compassion and skill of review, noted that the international humanitarian system those working for CAFOD––the Catholic Fund for risks no longer being a cohesive global system, and that Overseas Development—Oxfam, Save the Children, Islamic its effectiveness is at risk just when it should be increasing. Relief, ActionAid, Christian Aid or one of the many, It called for renewed political leadership by the UK and many other NGOs in responding to disasters. However, other major donors to ensure adequate UN humanitarian it is the UN that has to lead the international response leadership. World Vision has also highlighted the need to major disasters, and it is on the UN’s capacity to for stronger humanitarian leadership. provide leadership that I want to focus. Britain is one of the many nations that contribute to The expansion of the Central Emergency Response UN appeals responding to disasters, but it is one of a Fund to allow the UN to release funds and enable its far smaller number of nations genuinely interested in agencies to react to disasters more quickly has been an driving reform across the UN development and undoubted success over the past five years, helping to humanitarian system and willing to put in the hard improve the UN’s leadership in major disasters and, yards in international forums to champion that reform. crucially, in the under-reported and forgotten humanitarian I recognise that the Government have not yet completed crises that no longer attract media attention, if they their humanitarian emergency response review.Nevertheless, ever did. My concern about the CERF now is about I hope that the Minister will feel able to provide a full how well it is funded. At the end of last year there were response, and I ask him directly what he and his Department reports that the CERF—the UN’s primary fund—was are doing to ensure that the UN can lead the immediate facing a $100 million shortfall. At the replenishment humanitarian response to natural disasters effectively. conference in December—I gently point out that no How often have Ministers initiated discussions with Minister attended it, which was unusual and disappointing EU colleagues, the US and other countries on the UN’s —only $358 million was raised. Indeed, I was struck ability to respond to disasters? I have no doubt that by the continuing poor contribution by key nations in there is plenty of contact when a disaster strikes, but the UN family, and in particular by how little the US it is between times that leadership from Department for and France contributed to support the UN’s ability to International Development Ministers—and, indeed, respond. Ministers from across the Government—continues to In 2010 Britain contributed some $60 million to the be required. Essentially, there are five issues of continuing Central Emergency Response Fund and $113 million concern involved in how the UN leads the collectively to the three UN humanitarian leadership international humanitarian system: funding, personnel, funds. That compares with the US, which gave only co-ordination, reporting and disaster risk reduction. In $10 million—just over £6 million—to the CERF, and the medium and longer term, there is also a second the French, who gave a combined total of just $7.4 million: group of issues associated with how the broader UN that is less than £5 million. In better times, when the development system responds to the challenge of contributions of other nations were higher and the development after the immediate humanitarian response CERF was expanding, that was not such a problem, but phase of a disaster is over. with aid levels under threat—albeit not in this country—now is surely the time for the richest nations to continue to Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Does the hon. meet their responsibilities to those funds. Interestingly, Gentleman share my frustration, and that of the general Valerie Amos, Britain’s most senior UN diplomat and public, over the Haiti disaster? Clearly the general public head of the UN’s disaster response agency, said in New wanted something done, the money was gathered and York as recently as 21 January: the UN responded, yet a year or 15 months later, the work that we expected to see in Haiti has not been done. “we…need to broaden the coalition of Member States who Does he share that frustration with me and others in the support multilateral humanitarian action, and we need to bring Chamber? more partners into our existing response mechanisms”. What discussions has the Minister or his departmental Mr Thomas: There are many reasons why the colleagues had, or are they planning, with their US and international community has not met the scale of the French counterparts on funding for the UN’s humanitarian task in Haiti. Certainly, there were issues with the UN’s funds? 881 Humanitarian Disasters8 MARCH 2011 Humanitarian Disasters 882

The next issue is about people. Leading the response UN humanitarian funds, we need to step up our efforts to a disaster requires remarkable leadership, and the to persuade other countries to share our interest in and UN’s humanitarian co-ordinators are the unsung heroes responsibility for the UN humanitarian system. of the international community. They are often required Linked to the hon. Gentleman’s point, may I ask the to be personally brave, and they need a capacity for Minister how he and his Department are encouraging punishing hours, day after day with little rest, and an debate about the issues that take centre stage in these ability to negotiate and co-ordinate with country discussions? Is an annual international forum being Governments, donors and aid agencies, and often the planned to bring Ministers together from across the military and myriad other bodies. The UN’s humanitarian globe to discuss how humanitarian issues are being—and, co-ordinators are, as it were, the Florence Nightingales indeed, have been—handled? Such gatherings exist for of the international community; they are also, however, officials, but is there one planned for Ministers? Ultimately, too few in number. I hope that the Minister will say it is ministerial energy that shifts, or does not shift, the what action the Department for International Development international system’s gears. is taking to help the UN find and support a wider pool of people from which to draw humanitarian Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): I spent the co-ordinators. recess in New Zealand working with the Parliament Also crucial are those who lead the work to provide there, and I was there when the earthquake struck in each part of the humanitarian effort—the effort to Christchurch. The New Zealand people were incredibly provide shelter, water supplies, medical assistance, and grateful for the immediate response not only from our so on—and specifically those UN agencies that have own country but from such countries as Singapore, accepted responsibility for each of those tasks and that Australia, Japan and, of course, America. I accept what have struggled on occasion to find the right person, the hon. Gentleman says about the UN effort, but does appropriately trained and able to be deployed at a he agree that there is already a co-ordinated response moment’s notice, to be that agency’s leadership on the that kicks in when many such humanitarian disasters ground when a disaster strikes. So I ask the Minister occur? what continuing discussions he is having with agencies with cluster leadership responsibilities about the availability Mr Thomas: I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s words of sufficient senior staff who can be deployed at a and his interest in the New Zealand situation, but I do moment’s notice. not share his analysis of the general situation in many The single biggest factor in getting agencies and developing countries. I emphasise the contrast between non-governmental organisations to work together, to New Zealand and elsewhere. The lessons from Haiti are co-ordinate effectively and to ensure that all the key quite instructive in that regard, because New Zealand humanitarian needs are addressed is the availability of had far more advanced contingency planning and systems funding. Common humanitarian funds in-country have in place, notwithstanding the challenges that still exist. helped to drive better co-ordination in a number of It is for that reason that we need the UN, and the situations. Sudan is an example. Will the Minister tell international humanitarian system that it leads, to continue me how those funds are continuing to be rolled out? to be effective and, given the increase in need that we What is his assessment of their effectiveness? are likely to see in the coming years, to continue to Disaster risk reduction and the development of local reform so that it can improve its work still further. in-country ability to respond to disasters is also essential. I return to the issue of the international forum. If the As Save the Children has noted, the contrast between Minister does not have a plan to establish such a forum the impact of the Christchurch earthquake and the for ministerial discussions, will he at least ensure that Haiti quake is instructive. It is not impossible to predict this is a topic for an EU Development Ministers meeting? where there might be a risk of big natural disasters The Disasters Emergency Committee, that excellent occurring, and UN agencies need to help to build the co-ordinating body of non-governmental organisations ability of countries and communities to put in place in the UK, has just published a lessons learned document measures such as tsunami early-warning systems and from the Haiti disaster. I gently suggest that such work better building regulations, to ensure that such events needs to be considered and replicated in an international lead to less damage and fewer lives being lost. Indeed, setting at a ministerial level meeting. the Disasters Emergency Committee has just noted the need to prepare for the—sadly inevitable—next big urban disasters. That point is linked to the question that Jim Shannon: The hon. Gentleman is generous in the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has just giving way. One concern of many people is that when asked me. Again, I ask the Minister what action he is money is donated to help countries, there is an taking to promote disaster risk reduction efforts by the administrative angle to it. How much of that money individual developing countries in which we continue to actually gets through to the people? Is it effectively have an aid programme and by the UN agencies that we sucked up in the administration so that the money does are continuing to fund. not go where people want it to go? Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): In my experience, Mr Thomas: A lot of the money pledged to the UN the United Kingdom has done extremely well in providing does get through to the sharp end, but that does not humanitarian aid; it is entirely supportive. Is the hon. mean that there is no scope for improving the savings Gentleman suggesting that we are not pulling our weight, that can be found across the UN system. and should be doing considerably more? The second broad issue I want quickly to raise is the Mr Thomas: I share the hon. Gentleman’s analysis of reform of the UN development system and how UN where we are—or certainly of where we have been. My agencies can be supported to step up their longer-term point is that, with the shortfall in funding for the crucial response to natural disasters. The Government need to 883 Humanitarian Disasters8 MARCH 2011 Humanitarian Disasters 884

[Mr Thomas] Development set in train an independent review of the UK Government’s response to rapid onset emergencies, champion a joined-up UN response and to celebrate the so we can learn how to do this better. One UN reform programme that is helping in some May I take the opportunity to touch on the current countries to ensure that the sheer plethora of UN hot spot? We are, of course, responding to the humanitarian agencies’ funds, programmes and commissions add up situation in Libya and my right hon. Friend the Secretary to more than the sum of their parts. Again, leadership of State was only last week at the Tunisian border, money and co-ordination are fundamental, so I ask the where he witnessed the complex situation first hand. He Minister what support he is giving through his Department vowed that the UK would do everything possible to give to help to widen the pool of experience of dedicated the stranded shelter and to get them home as quickly as UN resident co-ordinators able to lead that collective, possible. It will come as no surprise to the hon. Gentleman co-ordinated UN development response. What resources that DFID was one of the first donors on the ground, are the Government putting in to One UN funds that responding quickly by placing experts on the borders to force agencies to work together to deliver the prioritised assess the situation. We immediately sent 38,000 blankets response that countries need? and 1,400 tents from DFID’s stores to provide shelter In our more financially difficult times, and given for 10,000 people. what the hon. Member for Strangford asked, what It was quickly established that at that point the action is the Minister taking to encourage the UN to situation on the borders was a logistical emergency drive savings? For example, does every UN agency rather than a humanitarian crisis. We sent chartered continue to need its own procurement or human resources flights to take the returning migrant workers home, and function, as savings could be reinvested in the front line yesterday the last of those flights was returning more of the development and humanitarian effort? than 500 Bangladeshis. We have also returned more Lastly, the World Bank is a distinct and different part than 6,000 Egyptians. That, along with the logistics of the UN family, but it is part of that family, too. It experts that we have deployed to the airport, has significantly could do more, more quickly, to help countries to plan relieved the situation on the Tunisian border. their response to disasters and could certainly do more As the hon. Gentleman pointed out, however, the to help disaster risk reduction work and assist countries United Kingdom cannot address these grave issues to pre-plan their response to a disaster. The World alone. We must work as part of an international system. Bank remains, however, far too Washington-focused. I was pleased to note yesterday that Baroness Amos, the More of its staff with more devolved power need to be United Nations emergency relief co-ordinator, had launched based in the developing countries that they are seeking a flash appeal for Libya. It sets out the immediate needs to help. I would welcome hearing whether the Minister of the affected population, and provides the all-important shares that view. framework that donors and humanitarian agencies need The UN is a remarkable group of organisations with in order to co-ordinate their efforts. It will also help to remarkable people in key parts of the humanitarian and ensure that our international support always targets development systems doing a very important job and those who are most in need with the most appropriate doing it well, but to be ready for the challenges of rising support, doing no harm and respecting people’s dignity. numbers of people being affected by natural disasters, it As I said earlier, my right hon. Friend the Secretary needs to continue to reform. It will do so only with the of State has set up an independent humanitarian emergency help of constructive and critical friends such as the UK. response review, and my noble Friend Lord Ashdown The UK, in turn, will be that consistent and constructively will provide his assessment of it in the coming weeks. critical friend only if Ministers continue to take a The review will consider how the United Kingdom can profound and abiding interest in the two issues of UN improve its effectiveness and prepare for the challenges humanitarian system and UN development system reform. of the 21st century. The hon. Gentleman himself said I recognise that the Minister must reach his own judgment that he did not expect me to anticipate its outcome, but on the different elements of those reform agendas, but I I can put on record that its recommendations will hope he is interested enough to want to reach such a involve seven key lines of inquiry. They relate to the judgment. impact of UK humanitarian assistance; what an effective humanitarian response from the UK should look like; 10.23 pm how the UK should support partners to deliver an effective response—a crucial point raised by the hon. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Gentleman; how the UK can be an effective member of International Development (Mr Stephen O’Brien): I thank the international response community—another point the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) for that he raised; and how the UK should address the issue raising this very important and timely issue. He has of accountability in humanitarian response. The review ministerial experience in the Department on which he will also recommend an assessment of DFID’s has been able to build relevant knowledge. He is right to humanitarian policy, and urge the UK to ensure that say that, in 2010, 263 million people were devastated by the Department is “fit for purpose” in the context of natural disasters—110 million more, as he said, than 21st-century humanitarian challenges. I hope that the by the tsunami of 2004. Experts predict that the number House will have an opportunity to debate the review’s of floods, famines and other climate-related disasters findings when my right hon. Friend the Secretary of could increase to affect 375 million people every year by State is able to set out his recommendations for future 2015. UK policy and action. Meeting global humanitarian need is a top priority In view of the priority that we place on improving the for the UK coalition Government, which is why my effectiveness of the international system, the Secretary right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International of State also commissioned a multilateral aid review. 885 Humanitarian Disasters8 MARCH 2011 Humanitarian Disasters 886

A statement on the review was made in the House on leading by example, and I am very pleased that CERF is 1 March, so I need not go into the details, but it is worth already swiftly providing financial support to the people noting that it showed most—although not all— of Libya. humanitarian agencies to be good performers providing To answer the hon. Gentleman’s question, a considerable good value for money. The reviews have identified key number of meetings are taking place with our various priorities for reform. We want to work with the agencies US opposite numbers and the French. I noted what he to ensure that the international response becomes better said about an annual international forum. That seems and the hard-pressed UK taxpayer receives value for to me to be too infrequent. There is also the question money for every UK pound that is spent. whether there should be a similar forum for the EU. The reaction around the world since the announcement Rather than a set-piece meeting, there are frequent of the reviews from many Governments, donors and ongoing meetings. Indeed, I was in Paris on Thursday partners alike, and indeed from various international and took the opportunity to raise these points through agencies—non-governmental organisations, civil society a series of bilaterals. organisations, analysts and commentators—has been It is important to recognise that we need not just to one of great interest in the process in which the international reduce the risks associated with disasters when they development team has been involved, not least in regard happen, but to have much better co-ordination on to the multilateral aid review. I hope that—partly in identifying and preventing risks before they happen, response to the hon. Gentleman’s encouragement—the while also recognising the general unpredictability.Working review will be seen as both a template and a pathfinder, through the bilateral aid review, and therefore now the and that the process will be taken up not just by country programmes, that type of resilience and preparation individual countries but by the United Nations itself has been put in place, and it is, I think, fair to call into and its various agencies at all levels. We will try to evidence what we have already done in the preparations ensure that that happens. in respect of southern Sudan. Notwithstanding earlier observations by a couple of While, as ever, there will be calls for a total review of Members about recent disasters in Haiti and Pakistan, I the international system, we already have enough evidence thought it might be helpful if, rather than dwelling on and experience to know broadly what the problems are. those disasters, I mentioned some of the lessons that The lessons from Pakistan and Haiti led to the UN have been learned. It is important that the innovations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declaring improved that can be brought to bear be understood. The Office response to major crises as one of the top eight UN for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs has priorities for 2011. Through international forums and established itself as pivotal in leading and co-ordinating the EU, we are having a series of discussions intended the humanitarian response. It has strengthened the not only to back up what the UN may be discussing, but system of humanitarian co-ordinators in-country and to make sure that on those bilateral and regional bases the establishment of the UN cluster approach, as well there is a continuing set of discussions and a focus that as ensuring that humanitarian needs are met through will ensure that we not only learn lessons but construct joint assessments and that the finances are available to our ability to respond most effectively.The new mechanisms resource humanitarian action, all of which are crucial established five years ago are starting to result in improved components of our modern toolkit. responses, but they need to continue to improve, particularly in terms of leadership. Mr Thomas: At the same time as the Minister’s Department was releasing details of its funding for the Bob Stewart: Will the Minister give way? CERF conference, which I welcome, it briefed that CERF Mr O’Brien: I am running out of time I am afraid, faced a shortfall of $100 million for the current financial but I will give way at the end of my speech if there is a year. Will the Minister therefore write to the US and moment left. France asking them to contribute more funds to CERF? While talking of leadership, I want to highlight the Mr O’Brien: I was about to come on to CERF, but UK Government’s appreciation of, and support for, the may I first make sure that I confirm the point that vital role being played by Baroness Amos. She has through the appeals process not only are we becoming brought fresh thinking, determination and passion to better at preventing the duplication of effort and improving humanitarian response, which is improving the effectiveness value for money from a response, but we are much more of the international system. focused on the evidence-based and results-based Lastly, I wish to highlight the fact that the current management that will help to improve that further? The traditional international system alone cannot be the UK is pressing this point on almost a daily basis, and only response to humanitarian disasters, and it is crucial various contacts and discussions have taken place. to bring both emerging powers and the private sector on When in opposition, we fully supported the establishment board. The UK will continue to learn and to be at the of CERF when that was introduced by the hon. forefront of good humanitarian donorship. I believe Gentleman’s colleague, the then Secretary of State. It that I have half a minute left, so perhaps I can give was an innovation that improved UN country leadership way now. and co-ordination, and resulted in a more timely and Bob Stewart: One of the real problems I see is not just equitable humanitarian response according to needs. in UN leadership, but the co-ordination of the other Since it was set up, the UK has been one of its top non-governmental organisations in the field. Presumably, donors, and it recently did well in the multilateral aid the Minister is looking at that too. review. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has authorised a doubling of the UK’s support to CERF, Mr O’Brien: Unquestionably we are looking at all the announcing in December a £40 million pledge to this various actors and players—NGOs, civil society year’s appeal for funds to it. We are recognised as organisations and, above all, the agencies, which are 887 Humanitarian Disasters8 MARCH 2011 Humanitarian Disasters 888

[Mr O’Brien] Question put and agreed to. ultimately the big donors that have the muscle to bring this to bear—and international co-ordination is crucial. I know that the direction that will be given to us by 10.35 pm Lord Ashdown’s review will only serve to continue to keep the United Kingdom at the forefront. House adjourned. 149WH 8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 150WH

I was struck when one of the professionals whom I Westminster Hall met the week before last said to me, “Well, if they are in for eight weeks, at least we can sort out their teeth.” That might seem a slightly odd thing to say—surely the Tuesday 8 March 2011 purpose of incarceration is not to address issues of oral hygiene—but the point is much more fundamental. Many of the people who enter the youth justice system [MR GARY STREETER in the Chair] have had chaotic lifestyles; many have never seen a dentist or engaged with health services; and many have Young Offenders dropped out of the education system. Even a short Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting sentence can offer a brief opportunity to address some be now adjourned.—(Jeremy Wright.) of those underlying problems. 9.30 am It might be argued that many in the youth justice system have experienced a perfect storm. According to Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): the Prison Reform Trust, 76% of those in the criminal It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, justice system have an absent father, 51% come from Mr Streeter, and it is a great honour to speak about this deprived households, 39% have appeared on the child important issue. This debate is informed by my visit protection register, 28% have witnessed domestic violence, during recess week to Barton Moss secure children’s 14% have a parent with a physical, mental health or home and Hindley young offenders institution. I pay learning disability, 48% have been excluded from school, full tribute to their work and to the obvious dedication 31% engage in substance use, 20% engage in self-harm, and humanity of all the staff whom I met in both 17% have a formal mental health diagnosis and 11% institutions. The Prison Reform Trust has also been have attempted suicide. invaluable in helping me think through what I intend to say. I read out that litany not merely to emphasise the relative disadvantage faced by those in the youth justice It is fair to say that in few areas of public policy is system but to make a more fundamental and frightening the research more voluminous, more detailed or more point. The structure of our youth justice system seems comprehensive than in youth justice. There is always to make it more likely that the most troubled in our one more report to be read, one more document to be society will be given custodial sentences, because their studied in detail or one more set of figures. I welcome needs are thought to be far too complex to be dealt with the fact that the coalition Government and the Opposition in the community. have stressed their commitment to the principle of early intervention during the foundation years from nought to five, but I am concerned that a cohort of young Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con): I congratulate my people out there are already on the conveyor belt to hon. Friend on securing this important debate. Does he crime, as it has been termed. share my concern that some young people suffering from Asperger’s syndrome do not necessarily get the In preparing for this debate, I was pleased to reread treatment and diagnosis that they need, but are simply the pamphlet issued in 2002 by my right hon. Friend the put down as mischievous, badly behaved troublemakers? Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin) that first set out the idea of a conveyor belt to crime. I was working in the Conservative research department when it was Paul Maynard: My hon. Friend anticipates much of published, and it is a useful reminder that those were my later speech. We certainly lack a fundamental ability not the wilderness years we often felt them to be at the to assess the needs of young offenders when they enter time. The pamphlet indicated to me that the conveyor the youth justice system and determine how best to belt does not stop at age five but runs right through to address those needs. They therefore end up in the secure age 17. estate without having been assessed properly, because Although much good work is being done on early the tools are not present in the system, which is a great intervention and preventing children from stepping on worry that I shall discuss later. The conveyor belt appears to the conveyor belt to crime, we must recognise that to be constructed almost to minimise effective exit there is a significant policy challenge in what is almost a points before reaching the secure estate. That should be lost generation—those aged between four and 17 who of great concern, because disadvantaged children face may already be on that conveyor belt and who have particular problems in both the courts and custody. already missed the benefits of Sure Start, family nurse It goes without saying that reoffending by juvenile partnerships and other initiatives. It was stressed to me offenders is extremely high. Some 75% of those released at Barton Moss secure children’s home that the four to from custody and 68% of those given community sentences 10 age group is particularly important for policy makers or other disposals in the community reoffend within a to grapple with. We concentrate on the foundation year. Why is that? Undoubtedly, some of them commit years and the 15 to 18 age group, but a great deal does crimes and are bad people, but for a significant number, not always happen in between. I urge Government and the current ineffective screening process and lack of think tanks to address the four to 10 age group. appropriate tools for identifying behavioural and Whenever we discuss criminal justice, we must ask communication difficulties almost sets them up to fail. big questions. What is the criminal justice system for? I welcome, for example, the Minister’s proposed What is the relative balance between punishment and amendments to the Bail Act 1976, which would remove rehabilitation? Crucially, where is the victim in all this? the option of remand for young people who would be Although it is tempting to embark on a great philosophical unlikely to receive a custodial sentence, but I would also exploration of criminal justice, I will focus on a slightly welcome an assurance from him that the alternatives narrower field of play, starting from shorter sentences. will adequately protect vulnerable children. When I 151WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 152WH

[Paul Maynard] the process in which they are engaged and are incapable of engaging with the interventions provided for them, visited Barton Moss secure children’s home, I was struck we are setting them up to fail. by the fact that many children are remanded there on The story is the same when they get to custody. Nick bail for their own protection and welfare, even though Hardwick, the chief inspector of prisons, has said: they might not end up receiving a custodial sentence. “Prisons can offer a short window of opportunity for the There must be no presumption against a custodial majority of young people who end up in custody…That is an remand. opportunity that must not be wasted.” Equally, when offenders reach the youth court, they I am concerned that it is being wasted in some instances. find disadvantage once again. Little is done to screen For example, it is critical that children who might have young offenders for mental illness, learning disability or dropped out of the education system and have not speech, language and communication difficulties. It is acquired the basic skills of literacy and numeracy are no use imposing a disposal of any sort if the young re-equipped with them, if they are to fulfil a purposeful person cannot comprehend the punishment or interpret life once they are released. However, it is clear from what is occurring to them in what can be a very off-putting written answers provided to me by the Minister that the setting. I admit that I have never visited a youth court, number of young people achieving literacy qualifications but I can imagine the feelings of a nervous child entering dropped from 2,104 in 2006-07 to just 1,350 in 2009-10. that formal situation, uncertain of the process and of Similarly, the number completing numeracy courses what is occurring. dropped from 2,680 in 2006-07 to 1,813 in 2009-10. I I welcome the previous Government’s introduction of doubt that that is simply because of a decrease in the a witness intermediary scheme to help witnesses with numbers in those institutions. There is clearly something speech and language problems or communication difficulties more structural going on, and I would welcome some better present their case in court, but I must ask why more information on why it might be occurring. such assistance is not also afforded to defendants suffering Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): The hon. from similar problems. Does a child’s impairment increase Gentleman is making a good contribution. On his last the possibility of custody, because it makes it more point, does he recognise—I say this as a former Minister likely that they will fail to comply with a youth rehabilitation with responsibility for skills and training in prisons—that, order, or because there is a lack of an appropriate youth although many young people are making progress in justice programme that might enable compliance? If so, our prisons, we were not able to introduce schemes such it is a damning indictment of the system. Is it really the as Building Schools for the Future in prison to greatly aim of our society that eloquent children should be improve facilities? Does he also agree that it is important more able to plead for one last chance? for young people on short sentences that their integration When children get to custody, they have what is called back into, usually, further education in the community the ASSET form, which is the primary document for happens in a real way? interpreting children’s needs. Those forms are critical to the development of appropriate care and sentence plans, Paul Maynard: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for but they are structurally flawed, because they fail to that contribution, which raises a wider point about who identify speech, language and communication difficulties. owns the child when they progress through the criminal They impair identification of individual problems and justice system. One of my concerns is that when someone make it harder to address those difficulties during the transfers from their home local authority to the secure time in custody, however short or long it may be. The estate, their home council effectively washes its hands of inadequacy of ASSET means under-reporting of those them. When they have gone through pupil referral problems, and I believe that they are taken insufficiently units—or educational diversity, as we call it in Blackpool— seriously within public policy circles. and then find themselves in a young offenders institution, We should recognise that, thanks to Lord Bradley’s it is almost like starting again. They are then released report, improvements have been made to the way in and, yet again, they start again when they are returned which mental health is addressed, but the situation is by to their local authority. Again, there is a lack of cohesion. no means perfect. Indeed, it is only a success relative to I should also like to deal with the issue of the prison the absolute failure in terms of other needs. The escort records of young offenders at young offenders consequences of that failure in screening and appropriate institutions. I have been informed in a letter from the identification are severe. As I have said, we are setting Ministry of Justice that the initial assessment of a young offenders up to fail, which manifests itself in the prisoner’s language skills is made by the custody manager rapid increase in the numbers of young offenders who who completes the escort record, but there has been no are returned to remand for breach of conditions. For national review of the quality or accuracy of those example, someone might be given what is still called an reception language assessments. There is no obvious ASBO—an antisocial behaviour order—and told that evidence of the use of a tool that is approved by the they cannot enter a particular road. However, their professional bodies. grandmother might live on the other side of that road I do not believe that in custodial settings we have and, if they cross it to see her and somebody spots them enough speech and language therapists. Speech and and reports them for it, that is a breach. It might get language intervention at the Red Bank secure children’s them sent back to a young offenders institution, but it home reduces the need for physical restraints from two seems to me to be a technical breach. It might even be to three times a day to just two times a week, but only that the young person cannot comprehend that, in 15% of youth offending teams have access to speech order to get to their grandmother’s house, they would and language therapy. I am particularly concerned that be breaching an ASBO in the first place. If they do not the changes to prison health care and the re-assignment receive appropriate care and an appropriate sentence to the Department of Health risk worsening prison plan, and if they have a basic lack of understanding of health care. I am concerned that a primary care trust in 153WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 154WH which a young offenders institution is located now has institution is somewhere to live, and that ensuring that to take responsibility for all the young offenders in that they have secure accommodation is one of the best ways institution. It is causing problems in relation to securing of ensuring that they do no reoffend? funding for the health care within that institution. Will the Minister comment on that and explain why the Paul Maynard: That is perhaps an example of our change has occurred and how he hopes to protect those target culture. We measure the number of young offenders in young offenders institutions who are in need of on release who have accommodation available to them, specialist health provision that PCTs now appear reluctant but we do not measure the quality or sustainability of to fund? that accommodation. There could be an address to go We need to provide more exits in the community to, but that might be someone’s sofa. For the purposes from the so-called conveyor belt. As I have said, I of ticking the box, that sofa is regarded as a long-term welcome the fact that we are trying to avoid the use of solution, and I do not believe that it always is. remand. I support the concept of local authorities I would like to touch briefly on the issue of doli bearing more of the burden of responsibility for the incapax, which is the pretentious term for considering cost of youth justice in their community—a child from the age of criminal responsibility. This is something to Blackpool does not cease to be a child from Blackpool which I have given a great deal of thought, because when he is in Hindley young offenders institution—which most in the criminal justice system focus on the need to was an idea raised by the recent Green Paper. Payment raise the age of criminal responsibility to the age of 14. by results is another frequently cited intervention, but I I have thought closely about this. There is clearly a am not sure that it is fully understood yet. I would humanitarian instinct lying at the root of that proposal. welcome some reassurance that the schemes on offer are My concern is that what we are actually discussing is not merely a case of helping the low-hanging fruit first nomenclature, rather than outcomes. I realised at Barton in order to demonstrate that the process works, but are Moss that many of the children it looks after in that focusing on those who are hardest to help. setting—that secure setting behind a locked gate—are Lord Bradley’s review, which I mentioned earlier, actually not there because they have entered the youth recommended that all youth offending teams have a justice system. They are there because their councils suitable, qualified mental health worker with responsibility have put them there for welfare reasons. If the age of for making appropriate referrals. Child and adolescent criminal responsibility is 12, and we allow councils’ mental health services are a particularly malfunctioning welfare departments to look after those children, the part of our health care system. The likelihood of CAMHS end result might be no different. I have a severe concern taking on a 15 to 17-year-old who presents for the first that, by leaving that to a council’s social services welfare time with mental health problems is, I am afraid, pretty department, we will lose the many safeguards that are in close to zero. Their view is that they will have to wait to the criminal justice system to ensure that the law is be dealt with by the adult mental health care system. adhered to. As we all know, in tragic case after tragic Structurally, that cannot be what is intended by any case, social services are becoming more risk-averse in Government of any political persuasion. A child and how they treat young people. That well-meaning adolescent mental health service has the word “adolescent” recommendation might well have perverse consequences in it, which surely applies to the 15 to 17 age group. and I would argue strongly against it. I should also like to focus on the issue of transitional It is true that we should celebrate every small progress services for children entering adulthood, a period for that is made by a child. Merely attending two consecutive which, in my view, there is no real age limit, because appointments can be a triumph for some. We have to young people develop into adults at different ages. The stress, however, that the youth justice system is never the issue will be covered in the forthcoming special educational place to try to address all of society’s ills, as tempting as needs Green Paper, but I hope that, just as early intervention that might be. The youth justice system is perhaps a was the public policy fad—if I may call it that—of the place that can be used to catch up and to address that past decade, the transition phase will become the fad of which has been overlooked, but we have to start, as a the coming decade. It has been sorely neglected, which nation, to accept that more must be done in the community. has had a damaging impact on the quality of public I realise that the Minister is shifting the Youth Justice policy in this country. Board back in-house. I would welcome an assurance We also have to consider the impact of arrangements from him that youth justice will remain the responsibility for the release of young offenders. It is not acceptable to of a separate unit, within the Ministry of Justice, dedicated just hand them a travel warrant and £46.75 upon their solely to the under-18s. The Youth Justice Board has release. I have suggested to the Minister that we increase issued many useful reports that have underlined the that sum, because it is not enough. When I market-tested inadequacies of various stages of the youth justice that with the professionals I met, it was not supported process, and it would be a great shame to lose that as much as I thought it might be. The point was made independent voice. It is still important that, whoever we that, if we give them more money, cash in hand, we are and whatever our organisation, we still speak truth cannot control what they spend it on. Those professionals unto power. I hope that the civil servants responsible for would far rather focus on handing out vouchers to meet youth justice do not recoil from speaking truth unto the the specific needs that those young offenders will face in Minister, where that is required. their first 48 hours or so, rather than a cash payout. Equally, if all exit points from the conveyor belt to crime, which I keep referring to, are bottlenecked around Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): The the secure estate, that risks still being a dumping ground hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful contribution. for all the children whose problems cannot really be Does he agree that one of the most useful things that accommodated within society at the moment. In my can be given to young offenders when they leave an view, they should be accommodated within society. We 155WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 156WH

[Paul Maynard] on my visits before that. The nature of violent crime in particular, and what young people are being sentenced should be able to cope with those who have complexity for, is deeply worrying, and is reflected in newspaper of need. It is a damning indictment of this country that, headlines about knife crime and other crimes. in order to address those problems, we have to send The hon. Gentleman touched on some concerns that children to a secure estate, lock them away from society, are really important if we are to address this issue. What and say that society does not want to have to deal with happens when a young person leaves an institution such those problems. as Feltham? Reflecting on my experience as the Minister I have been appalled by some of the populism I have with responsibility for skills—and, therefore, offender heard in political debate about criminal justice in this learning in prison—for two years in the previous Labour House. It deeply disappoints me. The dignity of the Government, I am clear that we were able to improve individual is compromised by many of the conditions in education in prisons. If serving a sentence of more than the youth justice system. The victim, as well, fails to six months in our prisons, a prisoner will now take not receive satisfaction. Satisfaction is the crucial word, just level 1 and level 2 numeracy and literacy, but because punishment has two elements: retribution and training, hopefully, in a trade that can be taken beyond satisfaction. Retribution comes in the form of incarceration, prison. That is the case now. Lots of young men, in which is a deprivation of liberty and freedom. That is particular, are leaving prison and graduating with certificates where the victim receives recompense for the crimes to show the skills that they have acquired. done to them. Satisfaction, however, is just as important, I would like to stress two points. We have not been because satisfaction is where there is recompense for the able to renew and improve education facilities in our wider community whose laws have been offended. The prison stock in the way that must be expected in the 21st key part of satisfaction is that we reduce the likelihood century. There are jobs and opportunities out there, but of reoffending—that when a young person leaves the if prisons, in partnership with industry, cannot provide youth justice system, they are less likely to reoffend, and the latest technology and training for those young people, more likely to have a purposeful life in the community whether in respect of construction or cabling for the whose laws they offended in the first place. information technology industry, the skills that they If our youth justice system makes it more likely that come out with will be virtually worthless when they the most vulnerable receive the harshest punishments, compete with young people who have not been held at then we, as a nation, must examine our consciences. Her Majesty’s pleasure. That is something that we need Community solutions, at the appropriate moment, are to address. the way forward. Equally, I recognise that to be done A drive to ensure that industry works in partnership properly, those solutions must be intensive, with the with our prisons to renew facilities and to support the costs up front. They are expensive, and I recognise that, provision of facilities in young offenders institutions is but as the Audit Commission report in 2004 made clear, necessary. We did not see the kind of private finance if only one in 10 of those who went into the youth initiatives or public-private partnerships that might assist justice system are catered for properly, the savings for in improving the situation in prisons in the last period. I the public purse could be as much as £100 million. We hope that it is something that we can get to, so that are back to the old argument that early intervention young people receive the kind of training that I saw in saves money, and that requires ambition on the part of Sweden and Finland, which, frankly, have far better Ministers and the bravery to take decisions where the results with their young offenders than we do. costs are up front, but the benefits are long term. I urge the Minister to continue on his well-meaning path Just a few years ago, my Government were able to towards trying to improve the youth justice system. begin pilots in what we called test bed regions, and I hope that the Minister might be able to comment on their success or progress. They were meant in part to 9.56 am deal with the other problem that is manifest in the Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): I am grateful, system. I feel sorry for the Minister. I worked closely Mr Streeter, for the opportunity to contribute to the with justice and prisons Ministers in my period, and I debate this morning. I congratulate the hon. Member know that many of the issues that the hon. Member for for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) on Blackpool North and Cleveleys raised lie beyond the a very good and effective summary of the state of youth door of the justice system, and beyond the door of a justice at the moment. skills Minister dealing with education in prisons. If I would like to associate myself with a number of the a young person exits but does not quickly get suitable hon. Gentleman’s remarks, particularly in relation to housing, which is very much in the domain of the local the important role that now has to be played by local authority, that is a disaster, because he will probably authorities on this issue. I, too, visited a young offenders end up with the same crew that he was hanging out with institution just a few weeks ago: Feltham in west London. before he went inside in the first place. If he exits and It was my fourth visit to Feltham in the 10 years that I has to wait two or three weeks to access benefits, that is have been the Member of Parliament for Tottenham. a bigger disaster. Guess what he will do to find money I visit constituents there from time to time. That keeps and resources in the interim period, because, frankly, me in touch with them and in touch with some of the colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions most challenging youngsters in my community. Reflecting have not been able sufficiently to integrate their systems with prison officers and chaplains, some of whom I so that he can quickly get the support that he needs, get have got to know, it is clear that the cohort of young on to jobseeker’s allowance and move forward. offenders from Tottenham and other areas of north Integration with further education and the role of the London are now in Feltham for more serious crimes probation service are also fundamental. It is clear that than they were on my previous visit a few years ago, and the public imagination of what probation and probation 157WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 158WH services should mean is nothing akin to what is currently 10.6 am happening. A great deal needs to happen to ensure that a responsible adult is alongside the young person when Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I they exit the young offenders institution. That is clearly congratulate the hon. Member for Blackpool North the role of the probation service, which needs proper and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) on securing this debate. resources but also must be subject to proper expectations As I said in an intervention, he has made a thoughtful and accountable to the public. It must work alongside and meticulously researched contribution—indeed, possibly young offenders to ensure that they can continue to even a liberal with a small l contribution. His emphasis develop the skills they acquired in prison when they on early intervention and ensuring that there is proper exit, particularly if they had a short sentence. There assessment of learning and communication difficulties must be integration of the course that they were doing among young offenders was a strong point. in prison with courses at the local further education I also congratulate the right hon. Member for Tottenham college. In Britain, there are still too many young people (Mr Lammy), who made a strong contribution based falling through the cracks. They are not able to continue on his experience as a Minister. I did not disagree with their education or training and access the necessary job. anything that he said, including his last point about the impact of cuts on youth services. We must be cautious We need a step change in the attitudes of industry about that, because of the potential for significant and business to young people who, if they do not negative knock-on effects. succeed in work, will cost the state millions in recidivism. I apologise to you, Mr Streeter, and to others, because I am afraid that the attitude of employers to employing I must leave early to sit on a Statutory Instrument young people who have a criminal record is still less Committee that is looking at licensing hours in relation than positive or wholesome. It is our civic duty to to the royal wedding. Clearly, we hope that more people ensure that if someone makes a mistake, they are able to will not join the criminal justice system as a result of correct it. extended licensing hours and their drinking longer and harder than they might otherwise have done. I end with the story of a young man who came to see The backdrop to what we are discussing must surely me in my surgery on Friday last week. He saw me in be, to some extent, public perceptions of young people. 2003, having committed some crimes in 2001. He had Members may be familiar with a YouGov poll changed his life and wanted to join the Territorial commissioned by Barnardo’s that was conducted at the Army. I contacted the TA at that point, but it said, end of 2008. It found that nearly half the adults regarded “Sorry. We want to see more sustained progress in this children as increasingly dangerous to each other and to young man’s life before we will take him on.” It is now their elders, while 43% feel that 2011, and he has come back with his Criminal Records “something has to be done” Bureau record showing no criminal activity, and with references from some of his employers over the last to protect society from children and young people. It is period. He has turned his life around and still wants to a sad indictment against not young people but adults, join the TA, and it is my sincere hope that it will look society and, perhaps, the media that we have arrived at favourably on him. We need both public and private a point where the perception of young people is as sector employers to take that kind of attitude to young negative as that. people. The poll goes on to state: “The British public overestimates, by a factor of four, the I am deeply concerned that the kind of cuts that we amount of crime committed by young people.” are seeing in provision for young people could lead to a I wonder to what extent that perception affects sentencing serious explosion in crime among this important cohort. policy. If people think that young people are committing I say that fully cognisant of the importance of Tottenham four times as much crime as they actually commit, that and constituencies such as mine in respect of such may be reflected in the sentences that are handed out. issues in the past. Cuts to youth services and to provision such as after-school clubs for young people can have a That is the perception, but, interestingly, the number detrimental effect down the road. I represent a constituency of children in custody has fallen by one third since where many young people do not have access to gardens. 2002, from 3,175 to just more than 2,000. That goes They may live on the 15th floor of a tall tower block against the perceptions that that poll revealed, and may and share a bedroom with four, five or six brothers and explain to some extent the fall to which the hon. Member sisters. They need youth services. They need the state in for Blackpool North and Cleveleys referred in terms of loco parentis after school and at the weekends. Without young people accessing services. Fewer children are that, they are literally on the streets, in front of the going into the custody system. television or on the internet. That is the backdrop, and I shall now address the issue. A couple of months ago, I organised a sentencing Working women in my constituency do not get home round table. I invited many of the organisations involved at 3 o’clock to pick up their children. They are often in youth justice to come and suggest how to enhance the single mums who need activities after school and at the proposals in the Green Paper and to propose additional weekend to keep their kids occupied until they can pick measures. They stressed the importance of the emphasis them up after they finish work at half-past 5 or 6 o’clock. on diversion, discretion and judgment in what happens Cuts in this area can have a huge and detrimental effect, with children who go into the youth custody system. As so I hope that when we speak about youth justice, we an aside to the hon. Member for Blackpool North and recognise that it cuts across nearly every policy area, Cleveleys, I hope that he will stick to his humanitarian and that we must do better in Britain in the coming instincts and consider why an age of criminal responsibility period. of 14 might be the appropriate course of action. Indeed, 159WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 160WH

[Tom Brake] regrettable happens, but the overall contribution of such schemes is positive, which is what must be borne in at the Liberal Democrats’ spring conference on Saturday, mind. I shall open a debate on a motion that proposes precisely Other matters that were raised at the round table that. include transition, which is significant. When young The organisations had concerns about whether the people go from the youth estate into the adult estate, it Green Paper focused enough on custody of young is a huge leap, and that transition must be much smoother. people, and there was a lot of enthusiasm about what is That applies not just to 17-year-olds going into the happening to youth custody in Northern Ireland. Perhaps prison estate, but to 18 to 21-year-olds, because many of the Minister will respond to that, and confirm whether them are not able to go into the normal adult estate the Government are considering that as a way forward. without additional support. Northern Ireland has far fewer children in the prison An issue concerning young adults to which the Minister estate. may wish to respond is that the law is being disregarded The organisations also focused on the need to address and they are mixed up in adult prisons. The law is clear, learning difficulties and mental disorders, as the hon. but I understand that it is not being applied. Another Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys said. He significant point that was made at the round table is the rightly drew on the briefing of the Royal College of need for early intervention and early investment. Speech and Language Therapists—at least, I am drawing I have some additional proposals that I hope the on it—and referred to the asset system, which is the tool Minister will consider. The police should be allowed designed to assess young people. The concern, as the discretion in how they tackle youth offending, perhaps hon. Gentleman has said, is that it is not designed to adopting a problem-solving approach rather than identify learning difficulties or communication disabilities. unnecessarily arresting young people when they admit I have a specific question for the Minister. Can that responsibility. It should be recognised that the criminal system be looked at to ensure that it is adjusted so that courts are not necessarily the most effective environment it can do precisely that? As he has said, it is a significant in which to deal with children, particularly those under issue. Current evidence shows that 60% of young offenders 14 when, as the hon. Member for Blackpool North and have such severe communication disabilities that they Cleveleys has said, they often do not have the slightest cannot access prison education programmes. I agree idea what they are going through in the court system, with the right hon. Member for Tottenham that good, because it is too complex and completely opaque to strong educational programmes in prisons are key, but them. they could go further in allowing offenders to obtain We must decriminalise children when they should be qualifications. treated as victims, such as child prostitutes, and we When I visited the prison in the Minister’s constituency, should protect young people who are criminalised for the point was made that it is all very well an offender victimless crimes. I am thinking specifically of consensual achieving an NVQ level 1, but they need to go further if sexual acts between those under 16. On restorative they are to be competitive in the job market when they justice, I hope that the Minister will respond on the come out. Appropriate courses must be available. That Northern Ireland proposals. prison—Highdown—has a gym, where prisoners like to As hon. Members have stressed, it is important to go, and perhaps they should be able to achieve some give local authorities responsibility for custody costs, so qualifications in gym work that they could use when that there is a clear and strong incentive for them to they come out. invest in youth services, as the right hon. Member for The right hon. Member for Tottenham was right to Tottenham has said, if they can see a clear correlation, say that employers need to do more, and I am sure that which I am sure that there is, between investment in he will be familiar with National Grid’s scheme, which youth services and a reduction in the number of young is fantastically successful. It trains prisoners, and its offenders going into custody with all the charges and experience is that on release, because they take up a costs associated with that. guaranteed job at the end of the training, they are less This debate has been positive with well thought-through likely than the general population to offend. That is a contributions, and I hope that the Minister will respond real success story, and I wish other employers would in kind; I am sure that he will. emulate it.

Mr Lammy: The hon. Gentleman will recognise that 10.18 am National Grid’s scheme works because the young offenders Mr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): I welcome the have often had day release or been out on tagging. Some debate, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member of the public storm in the tabloids about young people for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) for leaving institutions must stop if such schemes are to securing it. The contributions so far have been valuable, work. and I pay tribute to the previous speakers. I hope that my contribution is as informative and as reasoned as Tom Brake: That is a significant point, but unfortunately, those I have heard. I start by saying that I believe in there is an element of risk. The right hon. Gentleman prison and young offender institutions. I believe that was a Minister, so he will know that there may be they should be about punishment, but also about occasions when something happens on day release, but rehabilitation, and that applies to children and adults. overall the impact is positive. The Government must be Many people in the adult penal system are subject to willing to accept that there will be some risk, and that drug and alcohol problems, as well as mental health and there may be some negative publicity if something education problems. 161WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 162WH

I want to focus on one area today. It has been Given that communication disability is now recognised touched on by my hon. Friends the Members for Blackpool as a significant contributory factor towards reoffending, North and Cleveleys and for Carshalton and Wallington what steps will the Government take to support that (Tom Brake). It is the ability of young people to engage group of vulnerable young people? The ASSET form is in education programmes while in young offender a verbally based assessment that has been shown to be institutions. Communication disability is prevalent in inaccessible for children and young people with learning the youth justice system. We have heard evidence that or communication disabilities. Given that over 60% of more than 60% of young offenders have severe young offenders have communication disabilities, what communication disabilities and cannot access prison steps will the Minister ask the Youth Justice Board to education programmes. Only 5% of those offenders are take to revise the ASSET form? The Youth Justice identified as having a communication disability before Board and the Government recently confirmed the entering a young offenders institution. A substantial need to support young offenders with communication proportion of children with communication disability disability. Is the Minister aware that speech and language experience social and behavioural problems in school, therapists are being removed from young offenders and those difficulties become entrenched over time as institutions such as Her Majesty’s young offender institution they cannot access the curriculum and become increasingly at Hindley? frustrated. Over a third of those children later develop Finally, I am sure the Minister has seen the recent mental health problems. Evidence also shows a strong report by the Public Accounts Committee which accepted correlation between poor education skills, particularly that 70% of young offenders have communication literacy skills, and criminal or offending behaviour. difficulties and that the current assessment does not Young offenders with communication disability have a give sufficient weight to those issues and problems. The higher rate of reoffending once in the criminal justice Committee recommended that an explicit assessment of pathway. communication difficulties be carried out where difficulties What do we find when we look at some of the money are identified, and that speech and language therapy be spent on prison education programmes? As has been considered as part of the sentence programme. That mentioned, offender treatment programmes are largely brings me to my original point: I believe in prison and language based. Some young people, however, cannot the penal system, but I also believe in the rehabilitation benefit from prison education programmes because their of offenders. I look forward to the Minister’s response. communication disability prevents them from accessing language-based interventions. Money invested in prison 10.23 am education schemes is therefore wasted and would be better spent providing specialist speech and language Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): It is a therapy services to enable that group of young offenders pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first to learn the communication skills needed to contribute time, Mr Streeter. I congratulate the hon. Member for positively in society. Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) on My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North securing this debate and on an outstanding analysis of and Cleveleys mentioned the ASSET form, which I the current issues. All hon. Members who have spoken believe should be revised. The current assessment tool is have taken that lead, and I am pleased to see a growing not designed to identify learning difficulties or consensus that youth criminality is a result of multiple communication disability.Moreover, it is verbally mediated vulnerabilities and failures in the individual and in and therefore inaccessible to most young offenders with society. I share the concern expressed by my right hon. a communication disability. In its current form, the tool Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) that if fails to identify children and young people with learning the cuts to youth justice funding that we currently difficulties or communication disability. Subsequently, anticipate go ahead on the scale that is promised, we the resources needed to support young offenders with risk not addressing those failures. I will return to that those difficulties are not provided. point. What do we find when we look at speech and language The previous Labour Government had a properly therapy services provided in youth justice institutions? funded, multi-agency approach to youth offending. It Access to rehabilitation and treatment programmes is included youth offending teams, which have been a real the key to reducing reoffending—something we all seek. success story, the Youth Justice Board, which uses an Due to the link between communication disability and evidence-based approach to disseminating best practice, subsequent behavioural problems, speech and language the introduction of alternative disposal orders and the therapy intervention with young people reduces the risk recognition that intervening early is far better than of them developing behavioural problems and subsequent trying to manage a child who has already become offending behaviour. Speech and language therapy embroiled in criminality. intervention allows the offenders to access education As a result, the youth justice system that exists today and a wider range of rehabilitation programmes, and is radically different from that of the past. During the subsequently they are empowered to change their offending previous Parliament, the Government’s approach to behaviour. prevention saw a significant drop in the number of At Her Majesty’s young offender institution at Hindley first-time young offenders, from 170,040 in 2005 to in Wigan, 97% of the offenders reported an increase in 61,387 in our last year in government. Recent statistics confidence when they were able to access education, show that the number of offences committed by young and they felt more comfortable asking for help following offenders dropped from 301,860 in 2005 to 198,449 last intervention by a speech and language therapist. Prison year—a drop of 35%. In the past two years alone, the staff reported a decrease of 87% in the number of under-18 prison population has dropped from 2,932 to young offenders who received behavioural warnings 2,045—a drop of 30%. Those remarkable figures are following speech and language therapy intervention. possible only because of the good work of the Youth 163WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 164WH

[Mr Andy Slaughter] There is a great deal of argument about what drives down crime, but I am firmly of the view that dealing Justice Board, of YOTs around the country and of with difficulties such as speech and language problems, those third sector and social enterprise front-line providers so that young people can fully engage with deterrence that have given so many options and provided valuable and offender management programmes, is a big component data to inform an evidence-driven approach to drive of driving down first-time offending and reoffending. down youth offending. We all want better outcomes for But here we come to the problem—future funding. We our young people. know that the Ministry of Justice faces one of the Some years ago, I worked as a criminal barrister and biggest cuts of any Department—23%—but I saw in represented young offenders. It was clear to me then, as Children & Young People Now magazine today that John now, that many young offenders are themselves profoundly Drew has said that the Youth Justice Board is preparing vulnerable, a point which was made well by the hon. to distribute 29% less in Government funding to YOTs Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys. That is compared with last year. He is quoted as saying: true not only in respect of their immaturity or youth, “There are a couple of YOTs saying it is going to be exceptionally but because many are disadvantaged socially and difficult to maintain a basic YOT…Inevitably it will mean fewer educationally and suffer a wide range of impairments resources on the ground to discharge a range of responses.” and emotional difficulties. Mental health issues are He concludes that three times as prevalent among children in the youth “it will be really difficult to have as much success as we have justice system than in the general population. enjoyed over the last two to three years”. Studies over the past few years show that between It is not just YOTs that are affected. Kamini Gadhok, 40% and 50% of children in the youth justice system chief executive of the Royal College of Speech and have emotional or mental health issues. A study of Language Therapists, has said: youth offenders found that 23% had an IQ under 70, “News of cuts being made to speech and language therapy and 36% an IQ under 80. As has been mentioned, the services in YOIs”— Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists found young offenders institutions— that 60% of children in the criminal justice system have “is a deeply disturbing and regressive policy. Communication is a communication disability, and of that group, half an essential skill that is vital for the rehabilitation of offenders. have poor or very poor communication skills. The delivery of speech and language therapy has been shown Some of those indicators are a result of deprivation, to reduce reoffending rates by as much as 50 per cent, which in while others are clinical issues that need to be dealt with turn reduces costs to the taxpayer.” through appropriate interventions. They are not just The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys drivers of offending or reoffending. The inability to may confirm from his visit to Hindley what I believe is deal with a complex and highly verbal youth justice the case there—that the only full-time speech and language system has driven many young people to act out, self-harm therapist post is being scrapped, which is a retrogressive or worse. There may be a declining number of the most step. The Minister needs to deal with that point when he serious incidents and cases of self-harm that lead to responds for the Government. We have some excellent death in custody, but each incident is a tragedy and, schemes throughout the country, but they are under where it is preventable, we have a duty to act. threat. What will the Government do to ensure that Hon. Members have mentioned some of the tools they are at least preserved, if not enhanced, over the used to identify vulnerabilities found in young people in next few years? the criminal justice system. ASSET, the Youth Justice The third sector, social enterprises, YOTs and the Board’s tool for classifying young people and identifying secure estate are all under pressure from sharply declining vulnerabilities, has been rightly identified as lacking a central and local revenues. If there is a massive contraction suitable mechanism for isolating speech and language of youth justice funding, it may lead to a decline in the deficits. I am pleased, therefore, that when giving evidence system’s efficacy, a rise in crime and the failure of to the Public Accounts Committee in January, the chief schemes that, if fully funded, would probably have executive of the YouthJustice Board, John Drew, confirmed succeeded. If a scheme can reduce first-time offending, that a complete review of ASSET is being undertaken reduce reoffending, reduce the prison population and to find a way to integrate speech and language components. reduce our expenditure, should we really be reducing In 2009, the previous Government commissioned a that scheme? That is the lesson from the report published review of the entire YOT assessment, planning and today by the community or custody inquiry, although it supervision framework, which has been at work since does not deal exclusively with youth justice. A very January 2010. high-powered panel concludes that some of the existing Reviewing ASSET is not the only way in which innovative schemes for intensive community punishments communication impairment should be taken into account. as alternatives to custody may be at risk, let alone the Two weeks ago, I was in Milton Keynes at the Oakhill expansion in such schemes that the Government wish to secure training centre. Among others, I met Diz Minnitt, see. the speech and language portfolio holder for the Association I am sure that hon. Members on both sides of the of Youth Offending Team Managers and operational Chamber agree that we do not want more children manager for the Milton Keynes youth offending team. slipping through the net and being condemned to spiral They are at the forefront of the use of speech and down within the criminal justice system. Those who language therapists, and they have an exceptional practice, have been involved with youth justice for some time will focusing on prevention. They have halved the number know that we have been here before. I shall quote a of first-time entrants to the system in the past five years, passage from Hansard from 18 years ago, almost to the and they have reduced the need for custodial disposals, day. The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe far outstripping the national and regional rates of reduction. (Mr Clarke), who as Home Secretary was responsible 165WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 166WH for youth justice then as he is again now as Lord My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice, was defending and Cleveleys paid tribute to the people whom he saw himself against an attack by the then hon. Member for working in the institutions that he visited, and I shall Sedgefield, the shadow Home Secretary. Following that, join him by paying tribute to all the people who operate the then hon. Member for Lewisham, East read to him in the youth justice area for the quality of the work that a letter written by a youth worker in Lewisham: they do. We know the value of that work. My hon. “‘I find it at least ironic and at worst callously indifferent to Friend, in concluding his remarks, drew attention to the hear members of the Government and Ministers bemoaning the report by the National Audit Office that said that the lack of social responsibility among young people and expressing cost to the economy of offending by young people in concerns about juvenile crime, when the consequence of their 1999 amounted to £10 billion. Intervening early in the policies on local government spending is that something as worth lives of children at risk and their families, before that while as the YoungLewisham project is forced to close.’”—[Official behaviour becomes entrenched, can present our best Report, 2 March 1993; Vol. 220, c. 148.] chance to break the cycle of crime. I fear that many more letters like that will be written Youth justice is, of course, a key part of the justice because of the cuts, not just in MOJ funding but in system. The object of the youth justice system is to turn local government funding and in other areas. Although off, or at least turn down, the pipeline into the adult the aims of the justice Green Paper are commendable in justice system and spare many potential victims of many respects, ruthless spending cuts will lead to a crime. Of course, the logic extends itself. My hon. diminution of capacity and systemic failures and undermine Friend referred to the work done in 2002 by our right the very sensible case that the hon. Member for Blackpool hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin), North and Cleveleys and other right hon. and hon. who is now the Minister of State, Cabinet Office, in Members have advocated today. I fear that if those cuts relation to the conveyor belt to crime. are combined with the cuts referred to by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham in Sure Start, youth Frankly, early intervention is just a blinding glimpse clubs and the education maintenance allowance, our of common sense. In the debate, there has been a focus most vulnerable young people face a bleak future. on concentrating on four to 10-year-olds rather than teenagers. In paying tribute to the people who work in the youth justice system, we need to acknowledge that 10.35 am turning round a socially excluded, angry and hostile The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice teenager is difficult and, of course, expensive. Those (Mr Crispin Blunt): Every hon. Member who has spoken who do such work are doing great work. How much since my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North better would it be, however, to do that work with not and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) introduced the debate only four to 10-year-olds, but children who are born in has spoken of the quality of his contribution, and I circumstances in which the predictors make it all too would put myself at the head of that list. In examining a clear that a horrifying percentage may end up socially number of concerns in the youth justice area, he has excluded and on their way into the youth justice system? taken a machine gun to all the targets and blasted them I fully acknowledge that communication issues sit at the away. Even though I have more time to reply to the heart of much of that, and I will return to that issue debate than I would normally expect, there simply is later in my remarks. not enough time to reply to all the issues that he has My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North raised. Many of them merit significant debate in themselves. and Cleveleys analysed many of the problems with the However, I will do my best. youth justice system, so let me give a short introduction I shall start by immediately addressing the point to the issues. Despite the increased investment in youth about funding made by the hon. Member for Hammersmith justice under the previous Government, there is still a (Mr Slaughter) on behalf of the Opposition. I am of lack of public trust in the system. Members of the course concerned about the possible impact of funding public remain concerned about becoming victims of cuts. Every Minister who is responsible for service provision crime. Fewer than half of them have confidence in the of one sort or another will be concerned about the ability of the justice system to deal effectively with impact of the expenditure cuts that they have to deliver. young people, in particular. Reoffending rates among I am not alone in that, but if there is one source from young offenders who are released from custody are which we will not take a lecture, it is from those who horrifyingly high, with 75% being reconvicted within presented us with the hideous problem of getting the one year. Tragically, things are not much better for overall fiscal balance of our country right so that we those sentenced to the higher-end community sentences, can get ourselves out of the appalling economic mess who have a 68% reoffending rate. Those figures are the that we are in. worst for any age group in the justice system. That said, I take seriously the cautions that are being Too little is done to ensure that young people who offered. In the situation that we are in, we have to think offend pay their victims and communities back for the about new ways of delivering services that focus much harm they have caused, whether directly or indirectly. more effectively on the output that the public services The current system does not incentivise agencies to deliver. We are coming out of an era in which those at invest in preventing offending and reoffending or in the centre have been privileged to dictate very carefully, early intervention. Indeed, the system is set up in such a through targets and performance measurements, how way that local agencies financially benefit when a young people in the public services deliver those services. Now, person is taken into custody. All the wrong incentives we need to turn to those people and draw on their are in place, and we must address that. expertise and professionalism in order to deliver the My hon. Friend spoke about secure accommodation. services more efficiently, and they will know that better Such accommodation will remain the most appropriate than anyone else. place to deal with a small proportion of young offenders. 167WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 168WH

[Mr Crispin Blunt] The proposals for the future framework look to improve identification through a discrete section for gathering As my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr Offord) information about needs in such areas that is not dependent said, there remains a need for custody. There will also on the link with offending behaviour. In particular, that still be occasions when remand to custody is appropriate includes a specific section on speech and language, for a young person. which are not covered in the current version of ASSET. It is also the intention to improve intervention planning However, it is a rather depressing state of affairs by bringing all activities associated with addressing when people in the justice system are taking decisions to individual young people’s behaviour into one plan and remand someone on bail when, as my hon. Friend the making referrals to other services more accurate and Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys said, the easier to generate. issue is the person’s social circumstances. It would surely be better if we moved to a system where the local My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North authority’s social services department dealt with such and Cleveleys referred to the assessment made by custody things. If someone needs to be taken into custody in a officers escorting young offenders. I should make it secure children’s home for their own protection, the clear that, under the current system, the young offender judgment should be reached through the social services team sends assessment information to the Youth Justice system, not the agencies of the justice system. Board placements department in advance. The department There are occasions when custodial remand is used then sends the assessment electronically to the youth inappropriately because of a lack of alternative offender institution before the young person arrives, so accommodation. Some 58% of young people remanded the assessment should be ready and waiting there. in custody are acquitted or receive a community sentence. My hon. Friend mentioned the importance of the Some of the funding spent on unnecessary remand relationship between youth offending teams and child could be better used to develop local solutions, which and adolescent mental health services. Youth offending would be more cost-effective in the long term and allow teams are multi-agency teams and must include a health young people to be diverted away from a potentially partner. Primary care trusts have a statutory duty to unnecessary period in custody. provide health input to youth offending teams. The We have published our intention to introduce a single future commissioning structure is now being developed, remand order for all under-18s. That would simplify the and my officials are working closely with the Department system and make local authorities—gradually and with of Health to ensure that there are appropriate arrangements support—responsible for the full cost of youth remand. to support an effective relationship between youth offending That will reverse the current perverse incentive, which teams and child and adolescent mental health services benefits local authorities when one of their young people and wider health services. is placed in custody. We also intend to amend the Bail Act 1976 to remove the option of remanding young My hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and people who would be unlikely to receive a custodial Wallington (Tom Brake) raised the extremely important sentence. issue of communication difficulties. Young people with speech, language and communication needs are over- Hon. Members, including my hon. Friend the Member represented in the youth justice system. We are working for Blackpool North and Cleveleys, commented on to facilitate the early detection of such needs in young assessment in the youth justice system. It is important people and to equip staff to communicate more effectively to note that it is not the intention for youth justice with those with speech and language needs. Providers of assessments to be capable of assessing every possible education in custody have been trained to use the hidden aspect of young people’s lives. Rather, it is intended that disabilities questionnaire, which identifies a range of they should provide a baseline and then trigger additional learning difficulties, allowing education providers to or specialist assessment where required. That means refer learners to the appropriate support and for further that we are working to ensure that changes are based on assessments, if necessary. the principle of screening for, and alignment with, other assessments, rather than of replacing them. It is also An anecdote that has been reported to me provides a right for professional discretion to sit at the centre of good illustration of why such provisions are required. A assessment arrangements, so there needs to be the flexibility youth offending team worker told of a young person in the system for that. who, when asked in court whether he felt any remorse for his offence, said, “No.” It was only in the taxi on the I would not say anything as strong as that ASSET is way back that he asked the youth offending team worker inappropriate, but it is outdated and in need of review, what remorse actually meant. Plainly, that is not acceptable, and I welcome the support for such a review from the and one can well identify what might have happened to hon. Member for Hammersmith. The clear feedback that young person’s sentence as a consequence. from practitioners is that although ASSET has a lot of good content, the form’s format and associated processes We have worked with the Communication Trust to do not make best use of it. On that basis, the Youth develop “Sentence Trouble”, a guide to help youth Justice Board is looking at the assessment process in the justice workers communicate more effectively with young youth justice system and developing a business case for people with communication needs. Some 30,000 copies changes to the ASSET framework. We accept that more of the booklet have been distributed across the sector to could be done to facilitate high-quality identification all youth offending teams, young offenders institutions, and analysis of difficulties in the areas of mental illness, secure children’s homes and secure training centres, as learning disability, speech, language and communication. well as pupil referral units, magistrates, police, special As my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon made clear, schools, Connexions services, primary care trusts and the assessment of communication difficulties is important. speech and language therapists. The booklet is supported 169WH Young Offenders8 MARCH 2011 Young Offenders 170WH by a training programme and a website that features a such a step change in service delivery. It is a way in forum for staff to share information, useful links and which we can free up professionals, and involve a wider resources. range of partners from the private and voluntary sectors On the education of young offenders, local authorities in taking innovative approaches to dealing with offenders. with Prison Service young offenders institutions in their We want agencies to be driven by results, not burdened area are now responsible for securing suitable education by targets. That is why we are committed in the coalition and training for young people in custody.Primary legislation agreement to introducing payment by results. We are on education applies to young people in custody, which considering a number of options for how we might do means that they have the same entitlement to education that in the youth sphere. Perhaps it is in resettlement as their peers in the community. I am pleased to announce more than in any other area that we can raise our game something that may help to answer some of the concerns by incentivising people to do what will work. of the hon. Member for Hammersmith, which is that My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North we shall continue to fund the education support service and Cleveleys raised the issue of discharge grants and in the next financial year in Prison Service young offenders discussed the giving of the resettlement grant of £46.75. institutions. The education support service has an important Of course, young offenders do not receive that grant, role in the education of young people, developing the which is for adults. It is an instructive point. My hon. links between Connexions and Jobcentre Plus and helping Friend said that there was concern about the raising of to give support for resettlement, in the form of referrals, the amount. In contrast to the adult system, all under-18s national insurance queries and benefit and debt advice. are subject to sentence planning, and they have an It also helps to support young people applying for allocated case manager in the community. The detention financial assistance for education, and offers information, and training order is an integrated custody and community advice and guidance on careers, helping them to develop sentence. The youth offending team has the lead their interests and skills, and, hopefully, identifying responsibility for sentence planning. That means that possible career opportunities. the young person’s accommodation and employment It is of course the local authority where the young needs should be identified early in the sentence, and person normally resides that now has a responsibility to coherent plans for the day of release should be put in promote the fulfilment of the learning potential of the place. Those could include immediate access to supported young person while they are in custody, and to share accommodation, and should mean that financial support information about the young person’s education and would be targeted and more flexible than it is with the any special needs they may have. By placing more one-size-fits-all grant for the over-18s. responsibility on local authorities, the legislation aims Properly, resettlement has become a prominent focus to ensure greater continuity of learning for young people for attempts to tackle youth crime, but it has long been between custody and community. recognised that there is inadequate strategic direction, My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and poor performance. The use of bed-and-breakfast and Cleveleys and the right hon. Member for Tottenham accommodation, and other forms of temporary (Mr Lammy) both raised concerns about the number of accommodation, as well as a lack of resources and young people in custody and the rate of provision of expertise nationwide, are frequently linked to reoffending. literacy and numeracy courses, which appears to be I hope that payment by results will bring about an declining. All young people who enter custody who are improvement. Meanwhile, however, the Youth Justice able to participate are referred to learning and skills Board last year set up a new resettlement programme provision funded by the Offenders Learning and Skills with the aim of addressing numerous resettlement issues Service. Of course, all too many young people have together. A key focus of the programme is the establishment other issues, such as substance misuse, that they need to of two regional resettlement consortia, around the Hindley deal with before they can participate meaningfully in young offenders institution in the north-west and the learning. Perhaps it is not quite so helpful to look at the Ashfield young offenders institution in the south-west. number of young people who are learning, while the The aim is to bring together senior members from the number of young people in custody continues to fall. secure estate, the youth offending teams, voluntary services Given the significant fall in the number of young people and local authorities—particularly children’s services in custody, the numbers do not necessarily read across. and housing—to take a strategic approach to developing A critical issue is resettlement and making the links flexible, co-ordinated resettlement services. Strengthening so that when people have been in custody they make the the links in the system through partnerships that work transition to the community effectively.Every year hundreds across agency and local authority boundaries not only of young people leave custody to create a new life in the tackles re-offending but has additional advantages in community and each faces the challenge of staying out addressing issues of child welfare, safeguarding and of trouble and integrating back into society. Many of community safety. The proposals in our Green Paper those vulnerable young people have no home, school or are intended fundamentally to change the incentive job waiting for them. Without the right support, many structure in relation to resettlement. We want local will reoffend, creating an unproductive and expensive authorities to take full responsibility for ensuring that situation for them and wider society.The aim of resettlement young people who leave custody do not return there, is to provide housing, education, training and mentoring and to incentivise more of the kind of work that I have for young people to reduce reoffending. That is of outlined. course an area in which, frankly, we have not done My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North particularly well. and Cleveleys raised the issue of the age of criminal To address our capability shortage in that respect we responsibility and I am pleased that he supported the need a radical new way of thinking. I hope that payment Government’s position, which is to leave it at the age of by results will be the vehicle by which we shall deliver 10. Our coalition colleague the hon. Member for Carshalton 171WH Young Offenders 8 MARCH 2011 172WH

[Mr Crispin Blunt] Armed Forces (Pensions and Benefits) and Wallington did not take quite that view, and having 10.59 am praised my hon. Friend for an admirably liberal speech disagreed with him about that. The Government believe Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): It is an that children aged 10 are able to distinguish between honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter, bad behaviour and serious wrongdoing. It is entirely given the importance of the topic before us. appropriate to hold them to account for their actions if I have to say at the outset that I am not an expert on they commit an offence, and it is important to ensure the subject, but there are plenty of people who are, both that communities know that a young person who offends here in Westminster Hall and watching proceedings on will be dealt with appropriately. We have no plans to television. I shall attempt to set out the case against the change the age of criminal responsibility. We accept, proposed changes to pensions and benefits on behalf of however, that prosecution is not always the most appropriate the bravest of the brave—this country’s armed forces response to youth offending. Much of youth crime is personnel. addressed using out-of-court disposals and robust I shall put my personal interest into context. I am not intervention to prevent reoffending. Indeed, we are now one of those courageous parliamentarians who have seriously considering widening the delivery of restorative served our country in the armed forces, but my brother justice and giving the police their own restorative justice was in the Army for 12 years or so, and I learned a lot interventions for the lower level of offences, which from him about what it was like to be in the services. I could be recorded for their own purposes. That is in also have friends in the regulars and the Territorials, addition to making sure that people both make restoration and they are never slow to tell of their exploits. However, and receive punishment—the two are not alternatives—in I have some first-hand experience. the rest of the criminal justice system. In early 1983, a few short months after the cessation I am conscious that I have received advice on many of hostilities with Argentina, I worked in the Falkland issues on which, sadly, I do not have time to respond to Islands as bricklayer repairing the Port Stanley infrastructure my hon. Friend. I very much welcome his speech and that was damaged during the conflict. While there, I the issues he has drawn to our attention in the debate. lived cheek by jowl with military personnel from all of The policy area in question is very important, and relies our forces. During my seven-month stint there, I gained on co-operation between a significant number of authorities, a certain understanding of the conditions that they had to drive down the number of people coming into the lived through day by day, and of the sacrifices that they youth justice system, and make sure that fewer people had made on our behalf. I am therefore delighted to leave that system to go into the adult one. We can learn have secured this timely debate. a significant amount from work that was done previously— from the way youth offending teams were set up and the The changes that the Government are set to push way they make such co-operation and co-ordination through will shortly take effect. However, there is systematic. That is the challenge that I enjoy. I am still time for Ministers to rethink, and for fairness delighted to have hon. Friends who take such an intelligent and common sense to prevail. As we speak, nearly interest in the issue. 10,000 soldiers are risking life and limb in Afghanistan; and tens of thousands more are engaged in service and heavy combat training elsewhere. They have no direct voice, and they are too busy protecting our country’s interests, so we must speak for them here. Let me make clear what today’s debate is about. Under their cuts agenda, the Government intend to link public sector pensions and benefits to the consumer price index rather than the retail price index. Because CPI is an historically lower measure, it means that pensions will increase by less year on year. Crucially, the change is intended to be permanent. It will apply across the board, with no exceptions. Essentially, it amounts to a cynical plan to reduce pensions indefinitely. That is bad news for all public sector employees and the source of ongoing challenge and debate, but it is particularly bad news for our armed forces. I shall explain why that is so, suggest why society has a moral obligation to make a separate case for armed forces pensions and explain how the impact of the planned changes might be at least mitigated, if not avoided entirely. I start by pointing out that this is not a marginal matter, because it has major ramifications for many. The armed forces pensions community totals 1 million serving and formerly serving personnel—a huge number of lives—and I remind the Chamber that the quality of those lives is at stake. When discussing money matters, it is sometimes easy to lose sight of the fact that although we are talking about pounds and pence, we are also talking about real lives. 173WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 174WH Benefits) Benefits) I think particularly of my constituent Craig Lunberg, That glib explanation was both pompous and dismissive. who in the course of serving his country admirably was It is very convenient for the Government to fall back on blinded by insurgents in Afghanistan. Craig is an inspiration their default position of, “We’re all in this together” to to others; he is not bitter about the injuries that he imply that they are being firm but fair in treating all received, and is philosophical about his life. However, public sector workers equally. I remind colleagues that Craig and his family need and deserve all the financial the coalition Government have been quick to criticise support that they can get. It is not charity; it is their one-size-fits-all measures, when it suits. Their rationale due. We owe it to Craig and all the others who serve and on military pensions is as fallacious as it is dangerous, who have served to look after them, remembering that because military service is unique. their sacrifices were for us. In the recent debate, to which the hon. Member for The number crunching has been done, and there is no Upper Bann (David Simpson) has referred, my right disputing the impact that the planned changes will have hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire on military personnel and their dependants, which will (Mr Murphy) listed some of the ways in which a career be immediate and profound. Widely published projections in the armed forces is different from any other. They are show that if the change goes ahead, recipients will feel worth repeating, because they demonstrate the utter the pinch from the get-go. In the coming financial year, absurdity of suggesting that soldiers, airmen and marines military pensions will go up by 3.1%, rather than 4.6%. should be regarded and treated the same as other public Severely injured discharged soldiers, who will not work servants: again, will lose £120 of pension next year. Compensation “Service personnel, as many of us know, can be required to for specified minor injuries will be £110 lower, and a work unlimited hours in excessively dangerous conditions with no widow with children will be £94 worse off. prospect of overtime or a bonus; they can be imprisoned for Such amounts may seem trifling to independently failing to show up; living conditions can, understandably, be very tough;”— wealthy Ministers—mere short change—but those reductions will be felt by those struggling to survive on I have experienced that myself— state handouts. Only when we extrapolate the reductions, “they are often separated from family and loved ones for many compounded over longer periods, do we see the full months at a time; they can be compelled to return even after they gravity of the changes. The long-term forecasts put paid have retired; they forgo several political freedoms and contractual rights that others rightly enjoy; and…they are at risk of being to any suggestion that we are talking buttons. Military killed or horribly maimed as a direct result and an unavoidable personnel are set to lose hundreds of thousands of consequence of their service. Often their pension is the only pounds in benefits and pensions over their lifetimes. A serious, tangible financial compensation available to them”.—[Official double amputee corporal, disabled at the age of 28, will Report, 10 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 61.] have lost £587,000 by the age of 70. A 40-year-old squadron leader will be £319,000 worse off by the age of Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South 85. A 34-year-old widow of a staff sergeant will miss up Pembrokeshire) (Con): It is ironic that in the very next to £750,000 during her lifetime. room, the Chief of the Defence Staff is briefing MPs on I ask the House to note the ages cited in those this very subject. Does the hon. Gentleman believe that examples. They are significant. For reasons that I shall his concerns will manifest themselves in a reduction in deal with later, military personnel become reliant on the ability of the armed forces to recruit in what could pensions and benefits far earlier than others. We cannot be some pretty testing times coming up? get away from the fact that they are set to be disproportionately and adversely hit. Steve Rotheram: I will answer that question personally rather than as a representative of my party. As I have David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): This is an said, I am not an expert on this issue. However, having important debate; indeed, we debated the armed forces spoken to some senior officers in my local Army garrison in the House last week. We understand that the country only last month, I believe that it will have a detrimental has economic problems, but we should remember that impact on recruitment and retention in the armed forces. we have a covenant on pensions or whatever and that It is also about the morale of our troops, and I will our troops are laying their lives on the line for their touch on that subject a little later. country. It is soul destroying, whenever we debate their finances, to hear that their morale is suffering. Does the Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): I hon. Gentleman agree that we need to strike a balance? congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this very We understand that the economy is important, but our important debate and I declare my interest as a service armed forces are laying their lives on the line and we pensioner. He underscores the importance of pensions need to balance the two. and is right to do so. Will he note that pensions were perhaps the first manifestation of the military covenant Steve Rotheram: The hon. Gentleman is right. I shall since the Romans granted a pension to people settled in pick up some specific matters a little later, but the main Britain after about 20 years’ service, so they have a very thrust is that there is undoubtedly a moral case to long history? answer. The maths is one thing, but a principle is at stake. Steve Rotheram: I will touch on the Government’s The main problem is that the Government obstinately position on the military covenant and what was said in refuse to distinguish between military and civilian the House a few weeks ago a little later in my contribution. employees—indeed, they make a virtue of it. In November, Military employees accept that many of their personal a Ministry of Defence spokesman said: life choices will be determined, and often restricted, by “It is not possible to treat the armed forces differently from duty to the military. Premature death and injury are other public servants”. occupational hazards and have lifelong and life-changing 175WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 176WH Benefits) Benefits) [Steve Rotheram] Some would argue that blue-blooded conservatism has traditionally been a friend of the military. Sure enough, consequences that impact on entire families. Typically, the Conservative election manifesto pledged to armed forces employees have shorter careers; they retire “ensure that our armed forces, their families and veterans are at an average age of 40, which is much earlier than their properly taken care of.” civilian counterparts. For obvious reasons, many military The commitment appears to have started and stopped widows and widowers are younger than the non-military with the rhetoric. The Prime Minister is never slow to average and thus more likely to be left to raise children spot a good PR opportunity and he is slick when it alone. Injured or disabled retirees are frequently unable comes to lavishing praise on our troops. For all his to work on Civvy street following their discharge. For new-found hawkish instincts, he and his slash-happy veterans, the quality of post-service support—medical, Government stooges seem hellbent on making military remedial and professional—remains patchy to say the service as unattractive and insecure as possible. It is least. Show me any other civilian public servant subject under-resourced, under-equipped and undervalued with to this particular package of terms and conditions, and little regard to meeting current and future military I will buy into the Government’s logic. needs. There is another way in which armed forces pensions The defence budget has been slashed and major and benefits differ from other public sector pensions. projects have been cancelled or abruptly abandoned, Yes, they are occupational pensions, but, as the Forces frequently at ridiculous cost to the taxpayer. Around Pension Society has pointed out, they are also essentially 17,000 armed forces posts are to go over the next few a form of compensation for the unavoidable early cessation years, 11,000 of which will go through redundancy. A of a career. It is important, therefore, to consider why range of other issues, including the unequal treatment people join the armed forces. Individual motivations of military widows, disadvantageous changes to income vary, but they include a yearning for travel and adventure, tax relief on pension contributions and the proposed a desire for a structured career, an eagerness to acquire cuts to educational allowances for armed forces families skills in a particular field and a desire simply to serve only compound matters by adding to the cumulative our country. None the less, let us not forget that a effect. Those changes all seem incredibly short-sighted disproportionate number of young military personnel—men and it is difficult to see how any of them will do in particular—come from disadvantaged backgrounds. anything other than damage recruitment and recruitment As we know, significant numbers are drawn from the levels, which I have been told are already at crisis point. care system. Let us not pretend that they are in it for the It is equally difficult not to suspect that the pensions money. High-ranking staff may eventually find themselves indexation switch is something more opportunistic and comfortably off, but the vast majority of military personnel ideologically driven than a mere fiscal measure. There merely eke out a bog-standard living. For that, they has been no suggestion on the part of the Government sacrifice a great deal, particularly in the way of family that they consider the current pension and benefit life. For that, they risk permanent injury or death in the arrangements to be overly generous, so that leaves the course of their duties. The theory is that as a nation, we deficit reduction agenda as the only possible explanation acknowledge and value that, and that we guarantee that for the cuts. Let us examine that explanation, because forces’ employees and their families will be looked after the problem with it is that it does not explain or justify in return. In that respect, joining the armed forces is an the decision to change the index link permanently. That act of faith. To change the terms and conditions of decision will have long-term impacts that will be felt service—to move the goal posts—is to undermine that long after the economy has recovered. faith. By way of an aside, it was mentioned earlier that my All the evidence suggests that serving troops already colleagues and I are currently urging the Government feel betrayed, disillusioned and frustrated. In a Sunday to enshrine the military covenant in law, but we must newspaper a few weeks ago, a British soldier serving in not let that campaign blur our vision or distract from Afghanistan said: the specific issues that we are discussing today. Let us consider the dry and self-explanatory observation of “The British Army has no voice at grass-roots level. We have the Forces Pension Society to the Armed Forces Bill no union. There will be no strikes. No riots. Certainly no fire Committee: extinguishers thrown off buildings. We are just an easy target”. “We note the commonly aired reference to the Covenant but There is the rub. In recent months, we have seen students we do not see a coherent and comprehensive set of actions which protest, public sector workers strike and various interest would make the Covenant come alive; it avoids any mention of groups demonstrate and engage in direct action. I suspect, pensions.” and I say this with no relish, that we will see more and When all is said and done, the most powerful argument more people take to the streets as the Government’s in favour of abandoning this callous indexation plan for excessive austerity measures kick in. Military personnel the armed forces’ pensions and benefits is basic—it is a cannot do that. In the absence of civilian workers’ moral one. It is about doing the right thing by those rights, they are particularly vulnerable and impotent in who have done the right thing by us. In return for the the face of damaging policy changes and cuts. Small immense courage, patriotism and self-sacrifice shown wonder that they feel so beleaguered. by UK armed service personnel and their dependants, we have an obligation to provide them with the highest In January, Vice-Admiral Sir Michael Moore said: levels of support and reward, both during and after “I have never seen a government erode the morale of the service. If that involves discriminating in their favour, so Armed Forces so quickly”. be it. What a terrible and shameful indictment. The Tory-led As I hope I have illustrated, to renege on the deal coalition’s attitude towards the military is shaping made when service personnel signed on the dotted line up to be, at best, ambivalent and, at worst, perverse. would be to betray an implicit trust. Those currently 177WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 178WH Benefits) Benefits) serving will feel let-down and bitter, and who can blame My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton them? And potential recruits will think twice before has already mentioned a quote from the Forces Pension giving so much for so little in return. Society, but it is one that merits repeating. The chairman I purposely paint a bleak picture, but as yet none of of the society, Sir Michael Moore, recently said: these changes is a fait accompli. There is still time for “I have never seen a Government erode the morale of the the Government to see sense. My own party has a armed forces so quickly.” number of ideas about how the deficit reduction dilemma That is quite a strong statement and the reasons for it might be resolved without so brutally hurting armed stem from the wide-ranging promises made by the forces’ employees. In our view, the ideal solution is to coalition partners to our service personnel, ahead of entirely decouple armed forces pension and benefit last year’s election and since coming into office. Their schemes from other such schemes in the public sector. record of delivery has spectacularly failed to live up to However, we recognise that that is not a practicable or their rhetoric. realistic option at the current time. The best way forward In opposition, the Conservatives declared that the would be to make the indexation switch a temporary military covenant was “shattered” and they promised to one that could be reversed in 2014-15, or at least once rebuild it. Both the Conservatives and the Liberal the Budget deficit has been pared down. Democrats made clear pledges to our armed forces, Others favour an alternative time limit measure, such as improving service housing, setting minimum something along the lines of maintaining the current standards for family welfare and maximising rest and RPI link for the armed forces personnel or their widowed recuperation leave. In government, they have so far spouses until they turn 55, when the link would come offered very little to address those issues. Indeed, it is into line with the rest of the public sector. Such measures, worse than that, because the measures that we are and variations on them, are all quite feasible but none seeing now will roll back the military covenant. of them is perfect, and they will not please all the Accommodation has been identified as an area in which people all the time. However, they represent carefully to make savings; tours of duty will be reviewed and considered compromises, which the grown-up coalition there has been no guarantee that they will not be Government profess to be big on, and they would go lengthened; and the Government have confirmed that some way to alleviating the short to medium-term pain. armed forces personnel will be cut by 11,000. In addressing the Minister, I urge the Government to The Prime Minister could not have made a clearer consider those measures carefully. I also remind the pledge than the one that he made to sailors on the Government that this is a cross-cutting issue, which aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal just last summer: requires joined-up thinking. Defence, Treasury and Work “Whether it’s the schools you send your children to, whether and Pensions Ministers must all think again. it’s the healthcare that you expect, whether it’s the fact there should be a decent military ward for anyone who gets injured...I I have a final salutary point to make. Thomas Southerne want all these things refreshed and renewed and written down in a was an Irish dramatist in the 17th century. In 1685, he new military covenant that’s written into the law of the land.” served in the army of James II, which fought against the However, nine months later, the Government have failed Monmouth rebellion. Southerne knew what it was to be to enshrine a military covenant in law, or at the very a soldier. In later life, he reportedly said: least propose doing so in the Armed Forces Bill, which “Dost thou know the fate of soldiers? They are but ambition’s is making its way through Parliament at the moment. tools, to cut a way to her unlawful ends. And when they are worn, Instead, they have already changed their policy, as hacked, hewn with constant service, thrown aside, to rust in peace outlined to all MPs in a recent letter from the Royal and rot in hospitals.” British Legion. I am sure that everyone will agree that the part about As far as the armed forces are concerned, the “unlawful ends” is open to debate, but some modern Government’s time in office up to this point has been military adventures spring to mind on hearing that marked by broken promises and empty rhetoric. However, quote. Southerne’s bitter closing observations make it is more serious than that. The actions of the Government uncomfortable reading. Do we want to entertain the are undermining the unwritten contract between the notion that, 300 years on and at the dawn of the 21st nation and our services in honour of the brave work century, we hold our armed forces in no better esteem? that they do. In the process, as Sir Michael Moore said, the Government 11.25 am “erode the morale of the armed forces”. Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): I There is no better example of that than the impact of congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, the Government’s planned pensions changes on the Walton (Steve Rotheram) on securing this important armed forces. As my hon. Friend the Member for debate. As he mentioned, we have had a number of Liverpool, Walton has outlined, the Government’s plans opportunities recently to debate these issues, including permanently to link public sector pension rises to CPI armed forces pensions and the military covenant. It is rather than to the usually higher measure of RPI will very important that we continue to debate them, because disproportionately affect members of the armed forces. we have not yet received a satisfactory response from I know that the Minister with responsibility for veterans the Government Front-Bench team. Today we have a does not accept that because he told me so in the different Minister before us. Thus far, I have discussed Committee that considered the Armed Forces Bill, and these issues with the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, I do not know whether the Minister for the Armed the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire Forces will take a different approach today. (Mr Robathan), who is the Minister with responsibility for veterans. I am hopeful that later on we might hear Dr Murrison: The hon. Lady puts forward an interesting something from the Minister who is here today that case. Will she therefore commit any incoming Labour pleases us. Government in 2015 to the measure that she appears to 179WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 180WH Benefits) Benefits) [Dr Murrison] poorer pensions, and why war widows will have their entitlements hit, year on year. Service personnel in be articulating, namely, that the change will be temporary Afghanistan were told, last November I think, by the and, if so, how will that feature in the budget she Secretary of State that they would not be made redundant, intends to set? The armed forces will not be alone; but they have now been told that they have been included others will say that they should be dealt with in a similar in the pool of people being considered. That is a very way. worrying U-turn by the Government. Our armed forces Gemma Doyle: I think that the hon. Gentleman is do very dangerous and difficult work in conflict zones aware that we proposed a much fairer, time-limited all over the globe, and it places great strain on loved approach, and that would be a better way forward. ones when their husbands and wives, mothers and fathers, and sons and daughters spend many months at If the Minister will not listen to me, perhaps he will a time away from home. Dependants, the majority of heed the concerns of the Forces Pension Society, which whom are women, often make huge sacrifices to support delivered a letter to No. 10 in December to explain to those on the front line, and we owe them just as big a the Prime Minister the disproportionate impact of the debt of gratitude as we do those in combat, particularly pension changes on the armed forces. Many members today, on international women’s day. The most important of the armed forces leave the military by the time they thing that we can do to go some way to repaying that are 40, or earlier perhaps, if they are injured, so their debt, is to ensure that service personnel and their families pensions start to pay out much earlier compared to are looked after during and after their time in the forces, those of other public sector workers, and the changes especially if their service is cut short because of injury will result in their losing hundreds of thousands of or death. pounds over their lifetimes. As my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton said, we are not talking Our military men and women deserve the best treatment about small amounts of money—these are very significant for the work they do. They are not demanding special amounts. For example, a corporal who lost both legs in treatment on pensions, they just want to be treated a bomb blast—a horrific and serious injury—would fairly. By making pension changes that will hit members miss out on about £500,000 in pension and benefit-related of the armed forces this hard, and for the rest of their payment, a figure that is very difficult to justify. War lives, the Government are clearly not treating them widows, who disproportionately rely on their pension fairly. Ministers must look again at the policy, and if schemes, will also lose out enormously. According to they believe that it is part of their deficit reduction plan figures from the Forces Pension Society, a 34-year-old they should consider a time-limited measure during the wife of a staff sergeant killed in Afghanistan would be period of deficit reduction and spending restraint. That almost £750,000 worse off. Again, that is very difficult would be a much fairer approach. There cannot be a to get one’s head around, and to justify. logical reason why the bravest British soldiers fighting There can be only two possible reasons for the changes. in Afghanistan should see their pensions reduced for The Government might think that armed forces pensions the rest of their lives, and why war widows, who have are too generous, but I have not heard them saying that, had the person most special to them taken away, should so I can assume only that it must be about deficit have the support on which they so depend taken away. reduction, which is indeed the argument that has been The hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South put forward. I am afraid, however, that that argument Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) asked whether the changes does not add up either because the impact of the will lead to a recruitment problem. Service families have change from RPI to CPI uprating will be felt long after recently told me that the changes are leading to their the Government’s intention to pay down the deficit is seriously considering leaving the armed forces. I am achieved. also told that people in the armed forces are talking Steve Rotheram: Earlier I mentioned a constituent of about their exit strategy—not our exit strategy from mine, Craig Lunberg, who fought for his country and Afghanistan, but their own personal exit strategy from was blinded and severely injured, but is getting on with the armed forces—because of the severity of the changes. life. Why should he have to pay for the bankers’ excesses? As my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton My hon. Friend might wish to speculate on that. has noted, a Ministry of Defence spokesperson, when Gemma Doyle: I agree with my hon. Friend that his challenged in November on the unique nature of military constituent should not have to pay for the bankers’ service, said: excesses. I am not sure whether the Minister believes “It is not possible to treat the armed forces differently from that, and perhaps he will address the point in his other pubic servants.” response. I am happy to remind that spokesperson of the unique Although the figures demonstrate that the impact of nature of military service. My hon. Friend has covered the changes will be felt long after the deficit has been some of these points, but they are so important that I paid down—and thus far paying down the deficit seems will make them again, and I hope that that spokesperson to be the only argument for change—the Government listens. Service personnel are required to work unlimited are determined to reduce the support given to forces hours in dangerous conditions, with no prospect of members and their dependants every year from now on, overtime, and can be imprisoned for failing to show up. even when the economy has returned to growth, as they Their living conditions can be very tough, and they are predict it will. The hon. Member for Upper Bann often separated from family and loved ones for many (David Simpson) made the point very well that it is months at a time. They can be compelled to return, even important to balance the needs of our economy with after retiring. They forgo several political freedoms and the unique debt that we owe our armed forces. contractual rights that other people rightly enjoy, and People will find it very hard to understand why men they are at risk of being killed or horribly maimed as a and women serving in Afghanistan now will receive direct result and an unavoidable consequence of their 181WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 182WH Benefits) Benefits) service. Their pension is a serious and tangible financial look forward to hearing the Minister’s response. It has compensation for those things, and the Government also been another opportunity to hold the Government must bear that in mind. to account for their general approach to our armed The Government must be held to greater account for forces. In their nine months in office they have failed to their approach to the armed forces, particularly on live up to their pre-election rhetoric, and their actions— pensions. They have reversed their promise to write the including the impact of the changes to pensions—have military covenant into legislation, at a time when recognising seriously damaged the sacred bond of trust between the the covenant and enshrining it in law is more important nation and the armed forces who bravely defend our than ever. Instead of writing the covenant into law, it is freedoms. proposed that the Secretary of State will report annually to Parliament on the effect that membership of the 11.43 am armed forces has on service people, with specific reference The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): I only to health care, education and housing. Of course, commend the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve those issues are vital to service personnel, their families Rotheram) on initiating this debate on the effect on the and veterans, but there are many other issues that affect armed forces of Government changes to pensions and their daily lives, particularly since the election of the benefits, and I acknowledge that the subject is profoundly current Government. important to many people. With the Armed Forces Bill Committee, I visited a Our armed forces are currently deployed to most garrison a couple of weeks ago and met several soldiers demanding areas of conflict and we have a duty, not and their families. The concerns they raised were about only as a Government but as a nation, to support and cuts to allowances, cuts to pensions and the difficulties look after them, to care for the injured and the bereaved. faced by service family members seeking employment. That is common ground for all hon. Members. As the We have seen no movement from the Government on House knows, the priority for the Government is to the issue of honouring their pledge to enshrine the bring the national finances under control by reducing military covenant in law. The Minister said on Radio 4 the deficit, and that inevitably means reducing public in February that they were defining the covenant in expenditure. That means that we have to take difficult law. He might wish to take the opportunity to correct and sometimes very unpalatable decisions in all areas of his remarks. Even his own team has not said that it will spending, including defence. Because of the priority we be defined in law—it continues to insist that it will be place on security, the defence budget is making a more enshrined in law. In fact, neither is true. However, if the modest contribution to deficit reduction relative to Government will not honour their pledge, at the very almost all other Departments. least, they must broaden the scope of the annual report However, in the comprehensive spending review and on the covenant. We have proposed, through a series of the strategic defence and security review, we have still amendments in Committee, that the terms of the covenant had to take difficult decisions that have repercussions report should be expanded to include issues such as for some members of the armed forces and their families. mental health care, employment and training and, crucially, I repeat that many of those decisions have been unpalatable. pensions and benefits. It would be bizarre if the Secretary Nobody in the coalition came into politics to make cuts of State was required to come to Parliament and produce to the armed forces or to eliminate capabilities in our a report that did not actually reflect his or her direct military power, but that is what we have had to do. responsibilities. The coalition has so far rejected that proposal but I Gemma Doyle: Will the Minister confirm that the urge it again—particularly in the light of the letter from decisions he refers to are financial and not strategic? Chris Simpkins, director general of the Royal British Legion, to the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, Nick Harvey: I am coming to that. We have to the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire—to acknowledge three things. First, the scale of the deficit ensure that Parliament has the opportunity to scrutinise is so enormous that £1 in every £4 of public expenditure closely the current and future Governments’ approach is being borrowed, and the interest alone on the debt to the much wider range of issues facing our service this year is greater than the entire defence budget, personnel. including the proportion being paid by the Treasury for The chair of the RAF Families Federation told the operations in Afghanistan. That is how immense the Armed Forces Bill Committee recently: overall deficit black hole actually is. That is compounded in the area of defence by the situation we inherited, “At the moment, there is a real feeling within the armed forces where the defence budget was lagging behind the defence that they are being battered from all sides.” forward programme over the 10-year planning period It is easy to understand that view when one considers by £38 billion. That is the gap between the programme the Government’s pension changes, their plans to make that we inherited and the existing budget, set at a flat thousands of service personnel redundant and the litany real basis, for the 10-year planning period. That is over of broken promises that simply do not match the rhetoric and on top of the general deficit picture that we inherited. that we heard before the election. We can add to that the There is the general picture and the specific defence Government’s decision to scrap major reforms to the picture. system of inquests into military deaths, which has been The third element—which I do not think was described as a betrayal by forces families. acknowledged adequately by the hon. Member for Today’s debate has been an opportunity to highlight Liverpool, Walton—is that before there ever was an the unfair impact that the Government’s pension changes economic downturn, before the banking crisis hit, before will have on our brave servicemen and women, and the deficit became part of the political currency, there again to call on Ministers to rethink their approach. I was already a problem with public service pensions, 183WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 184WH Benefits) Benefits) [Nick Harvey] The hon. Gentleman’s second point is a fair one. On average, people leave the military and begin drawing which the previous Government had acknowledged and pensions from the age of about 40. I am sceptical about was beginning to address, and which was going to some of the figures that he and the hon. Member for require pretty drastic action sooner or later, irrespective West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) quoted, and I of the nation’s finances plunging as they did. Before any need to examine them in depth to see how on earth they of that started, there was already a serious problem were arrived at, but the general point that the pension is with the affordability of public service pensions. We drawn from an earlier age is valid. However, in the vast have to acknowledge all three factors as the backcloth majority of cases, people who draw a military pension to the decisions that have subsequently been taken. from the age of about 40 do not then live on it exclusively for the rest of their days. My hon. Friend the Member Gemma Doyle: Will the Minister give an example of a for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) acknowledged time in the previous Parliament when either his or the that he receives a service pension, but that has not Conservative party called for less defence spending? prevented him from going on to do other things. Of course, some will not have further opportunities, but for the vast majority of people who leave the services at Nick Harvey: Certainly not. We would have liked about 40, the service pension augments what they can to have seen more defence spending. We would still like earn in other walks of life for a long period. It is not to see that now. The fact is that defence figures, for really comparable with an old age pension in the sense obvious security reasons, are not exposed to the same that I think the hon. Gentleman meant. degree of parliamentary scrutiny as those of other Departments, and with the long lead time of many Steve Rotheram: It is strange that the Minister mentions defence items, commitments stretch further into the the difference between the structural and cyclical deficits. future than they do in many other Departments. Although If the change is being made to address the structural we were aware from Bernard Gray’s report on procurement deficit, that existed a long time before the banking that there were some pretty serious financial difficulties crisis, as he rightly said, but I do not remember any inside the Ministry of Defence, it was not until we got in dissident voices from the Tory and Liberal Democrat and saw the full scale of it that we realised how drastic Benches at the time saying that we should reduce armed the defence budget’s problems were. forces pensions. Why the change? If it was known well before the banking crisis, why was it not in either party’s Steve Rotheram: I have listened carefully to the Minister, manifesto? and I understand the argument that we had in the main Chamber about deficit reduction. It is not possible to Nick Harvey: The hon. Gentleman makes the point throw the old line that we are deficit deniers—I am that we are having to take measures now to eliminate stating publicly that I understand the rationale—because the deficit that we would not have taken or needed to if that were the case, a proposal that was time-bound take if the deficit had not grown over a period of seven until the deficit was pared down would have got some or eight years in the first place. Nobody in Government support across the Chamber. However, that is not what is saying that the precise measures that we are taking is being proposed. As I mentioned, it is necessary to now are those that got the country into deficit, but the take cognisance of the fact that, because our forces fact is that between 2001 and the banking crisis, we ran personnel and their widows draw pensions at a much a budget deficit, some of it during a boom period in earlier age, the proposed changes are compounding the which traditional Keynesian economics should have problem. It is not comparing apples with apples; it is dictated that we run a budget surplus. not even comparing Cox’s with Cox’s. A completely The Government are now being forced to take drastic different set of comparators must be used, because measures to address the structural deficit, not on the armed forces pensions are drawn at such an early age. logic that these are the specific issues that built up the structural deficit but because we must deal in the art of the possible. None of us came into politics to cut armed Nick Harvey: The hon. Gentleman is making two forces numbers or delete military capability, but we are different points, and I shall address each in turn. The driven to do so now by the scale of the budget deficit. It question of the deficit must be boiled down into the is simply not fair to say that nobody said anything. structural deficit and the cyclical deficit. If all the Throughout the entire period, my right hon. Friend the measures that we are taking during this Parliament to Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable) said that both eliminate the structural deficit are reversed at some personal debt and debt in the state’s coffers were mounting point in the future, the country will simply return to to the point of unsustainability and would sooner or square one. This Government are attempting to address later go pop. I do not claim to have been a soothsayer the cyclical deficit through economic growth over a myself, but to say that nobody said it is simply inaccurate period, but we must eliminate the structural deficit. The and untrue. structural deficit is not a temporary phenomenon. It existed before the banking crisis. It is perfectly true that Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I apologise for not the banking crisis blew the lid off it and put the entire being here earlier, Mr Streeter. I was at the Health and global economy into turmoil, but the fact is that the Social Care Bill Committee. I noticed in the paper that UK was in a serious deficit situation before the banking the Army Families Federation, which represents soldiers crisis hit. That is why measures taken now to address and their families, the deficit cannot be viewed as temporary. If we start “said that it had received 2,000 complaints in the past five days reversing prior decisions when the cycle improves and about the impact of cuts from people who feel that pensions and the cyclical deficit is also eliminated, we will simply pay changes are a sign that the offer they laid down their lives for return to square one. has been reneged on”. 185WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 Armed Forces (Pensions and 186WH Benefits) Benefits) I understand the Government’s position clearly in relation We have to link pensions to the appropriate target to the Budget, but in the middle of it all are the families measure. CPI is the target measure used by the Bank of and those serving on the front whose benefits and England, the headline measure of inflation in the UK, pensions are being reduced. That is the clear issue for and the international standard measure. It uses a many of us in this Chamber. methodology that takes better account of consumer behaviour in response to price increases. The Government [SANDRA OSBORNE in the Chair] believe that it is the right index to use for uprating additional state pensions, public and private pensions Nick Harvey: It is a serious issue—I do not deny that and social security benefits, and that it is a more appropriate for one minute—but I think that what the hon. Gentleman measure. refers to was actually an online survey run by the Army It is in the nature of public sector pension schemes Families Federation that had 2,000 participants in its that individual schemes cannot be seen in isolation. first five days. Of course there is a lot of concern and Much as I would wish, as the Armed Forces Minister, to anxiety about the measures; I do not deny that for a see the armed forces pension schemes as utterly individual, minute. It is understandable. Some of the changes that the fact of the matter is that other workers in other we have had to make to the allowances package, which areas of public service could not and should not be is what I think the survey was specifically about, are expected to see that. We cannot change one scheme unpopular and will require lifestyle adjustments, but without it at the very least having implications for they are a necessary part of the Department’s contribution others, and we cannot treat armed forces pension schemes to the overall Government effort to reduce the deficit inconsistently. The armed forces are part of the society and bring the defence budget into some sort of balance. they serve. Service pensioners do not live in a different world where prices move in different ways and the The strategic defence and security review set out a economy operates in a different fashion. requirement to reduce expenditure on service and civil service allowances, amounting to £300 million a year. Allowances are designed to support service personnel in Steve Rotheram: Can the Minister inform me of what particular circumstances, not to supplement income. It the envisaged savings will be—specifically for armed is entirely right that the package of allowances is reviewed forces benefits and pensions—over the next few years as from time to time to ensure that it fits the needs and a result of the change from RPI to CPI? circumstances of today’s armed forces fairly and affordably. There is no getting away from the fact that the measures Nick Harvey: No, we cannot forecast that at this will have an impact on individuals; I acknowledge that. stage. The Treasury has taken the decision across the However, to minimise the effects, we have concentrated public service, and it remains to be seen exactly what on ensuring where we can that no group is that will realise over a period of time. It has based its disproportionately affected by changes. We have also policy on actuarial assessments that conclude that, over sought to mitigate the effects by phasing in some of the a longer period, there will be a significant saving to the changes over two years. public purse. Operational allowances have not been affected by any The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Lord Hutton of those changes. The House will be aware that we have is in the final stages of a structural review of public doubled the operational allowance, backdated to 6 May service pension provision and will publish his findings last year. We have also changed the policy governing this week. In his interim report, Lord Hutton noted that rest and recuperation for service personnel deployed on the most effective way to make short-term savings was operations. Personnel deploying for six months will to increase member contributions, but he did not remain eligible for 14 days’ R and R, and personnel who recommend that in the case of the armed forces. lose out on that, whether as a result of operations or of We recognise that there can be anomalies and do disruptions to the air bridge, will be guaranteed additional what we can to iron them out. It was unfair that, under post-operational leave in lieu as compensation. An the 1975 armed forces pension scheme, a service person appropriate set of allowances is a vital part of our who held acting rank and exercised the responsibilities support to personnel, and it will remain so. We believe of that rank but who died as a result of service before a that the changes announced in January by my right certain period had elapsed, did not have that higher hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare rank reflected in his pension. We have, therefore, changed and Veterans, struck the right balance between the need the rules. Every soldier, sailor or airman can be assured for savings and the need to get the package right. that, if they die for reasons related to service while The emergency Budget in June announced that from holding acting rank, their dependants will receive payments this April, the indexation of benefits, tax credits and the that reflect that rank. state second pension will be based on CPI rather than RPI. The change looks forward to the future. Future Steve Rotheram: I have reflected upon the Minister’s increases in the value of deferred pensions—all pensions answer, and it seems that the Government do not know in payment—will be based on CPI. Public service pensions what the total savings of this policy will be. Surely there will continue to be index-linked, which will continue to is a ballpark figure somewhere that can be used to say protect individual pensions against increases in the cost that the policy will address some of the structural of living. The change is not a reduction of accrued deficit that he identified earlier. rights, but we accept that in the long term, CPI tends to increase at a lower rate than RPI. That is not always Nick Harvey: The hon. Gentleman is right—there are true—a year ago, RPI was negative and CPI positive—but such figures, but they are held by the Treasury and have I think that everybody accepts that over the long term, been determined by the Treasury actuaries. They have CPI increases more slowly. not been worked out by each Department for itself. The 187WH Armed Forces (Pensions and 8 MARCH 2011 188WH Benefits) [Nick Harvey] University Admission 12.30 pm Treasury’s policy is to address the entire situation of Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): I am pleased public service pensions, which—I will say it again—were to have the opportunity to raise this subject this afternoon, a serious problem in terms of their affordability long particularly under your chairmanship, Ms Osborne. I before the financial crisis or the downturn occurred. am very pleased indeed that my right hon. Friend the The hon. Gentleman will remember that, during the Minister for Universities and Science has taken the previous Parliament, the previous Government ran trouble to come to reply to the debate. I am sure that themselves into hot water with some of the public those of us who are present very much appreciate that. service unions due to the reforms they began to make to I begin with a tribute to my right hon. Friend who public service pensions. has a long-standing, deep and passionate commitment Moving indexation from RPI to CPI is one of the to extending opportunity and to maintaining excellence ways that the current Government have identified of in our universities. We are fortunate to have him serving reducing the scale of the measures that Lord Hutton as a Minister in this Government. However, serious will have to recommend in terms of varying either questions must be asked about the Government’s guidance, contributions or benefits for public service pensions. I which bears the name of my right hon. Friend, although have no idea what Lord Hutton will recommend later I think it has come from the bowels of the Government. this week, but I am certain that, on top of that, some It has been issued to the director of fair access for him reforms will be proposed that will be unpopular and to pass on and to put pressure on universities. unpleasant. However, they will be less severe than they The Office for Fair Access has an interesting background. would have had to have been, because of the Treasury’s It is a quango that was set up by the last Labour switch from RPI to CPI. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s Government, and it has a Labour-appointed chairman. question, I am sure that there are such figures, but they I understand from what the director said on the “Today” are not held at an individual departmental level. He programme that it will be given additional funding and might want to address his question to the Chancellor. take on additional staff. No doubt that will raise a cheer Let me be clear about the challenges we face and why in one or two other quarters, certainly in the world of we are considering the issues under discussion. The fact quangos, as an example of a quango that can survive of the matter is that we inherited a record national debt and prosper even under present conditions. and a huge black hole in the defence budget. We cannot I participated in the Standing Committee that considered run away from those harsh realities. Tough decisions the previous Government’s Higher Education Bill six or have to be made, and we are facing up to that challenge. seven years ago. Memory may play tricks over such a We accept that some of the changes will be difficult and period, but I remember the rationale that was advanced that support for the armed forces remains very high by the then Labour Government for the creation of the throughout the country. We ask them to do things to Office for Fair Access. My memory may be playing keep us safe, and deny them the right to choose what tricks on me, but Conservative Members opposed its assignments we set them. We will do all we can to establishment and voted against the Bill. We opposed support them, properly equip them, compensate them OFFA in principle and did not believe that it should be when they are injured and honour them when they die. set up. It may be not just that my memory is playing We owe them nothing less. tricks and I may have been under a misapprehension— perhaps we opposed it because we thought that it did 12.6 pm not go far enough. I do not know, but it is certainly Sitting suspended. going much further now—this is the important point—than the last Labour Government wanted. It is going even slightly further than some Labour Back Benchers urged. The then Labour Minister, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson), was robust in opposing some of the suggestions from his own Back Benchers because he thought that they were going too far. That is another quarter in which some cheer will raised by the guidance that has been issued by the present Government. The guidance goes much further than the previous Government intended because it puts far more pressure, particularly financial pressure, on universities with the link between approval for charging higher fees, fee income and admissions, and it is clearly intended to go much further. OFFA’s original scheme was that agreement for universities to charge higher fees—the increase under the previous Government was from £1,100 to £3,000—was made dependent on universities undertaking activities to promote applications to university, but stopping short of specifying admission outcomes. The coalition Government now want to go a great deal further. The guidance is quite detailed and very prescriptive in what it requires of universities, and just the introduction—it gives the flavour of the whole guidance—says: 189WH University Admission8 MARCH 2011 University Admission 190WH

“Through this letter, we want to encourage you and the higher Mr Clappison: I have only half an hour, but if I have education sector to focus more sharply on the outcomes of time at the end I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman. outreach and other access activities rather than the inputs and processes. In particular, the Government believes that progress over the past few years in securing fair access to the most selective Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): May universities has been inadequate, and that much more determined I suggest to my hon. Friend that in addition to quotas action now needs to be taken.” smacking of social engineering and lacking clear justification through evidence, they could harm the long-term economic Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): Will the hon. interests of this country, which would adversely affect Gentleman give way? everyone? The answer is not quotas, but ensuring that standards in the state education system are brought up Mr Clappison: I will give way to the right hon. to the level that allows those within it to compete on Gentleman, but may I first say that I am happy to give merit, not by quotas. way to any hon. Member who wants to intervene? Mr Clappison: My hon. Friend makes an excellent Mr Smith: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on point, which I was coming to. It answers in part the securing this important debate. I am following his argument point raised by the right hon. Member for Tottenham. with interest. Does he agree that the arrangements, There is a question of raising standards in some quarters critical though he was of them, that the last Labour of the state system, and also of raising aspirations Government put in place have had an impact? For among pupils, critically by their teachers. The universities example, Oxford university’s first access agreement with have been playing their part, but there must be a limit at OFFA resulted in increased applications from students some point to how much we expect universities to do in in state schools to the extent that they rose from 6,000 to reaching into schools and raising aspirations. Teachers 7,624, an increase of 27%. That exhortation has had an have day-to-day contact with pupils, and there is a effect. responsibility on them in some quarters to raise aspirations.

Mr Clappison: I welcome a greater number of Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): The right hon. Member applications from all sectors to our most prestigious for Tottenham referred to grades. Is it not also the case universities, and the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention that there are severe question marks about the grades was timely. I pay tribute to the work of the universities, that pupils are being given in the appropriate examinations including Oxford and Cambridge universities. In debates before they get into university? If the grades are not up such as this, attention often focuses on those two universities, to scratch, that is effectively a back door to the social as it has in speeches by the Minister and others in the engineering to which my hon. Friend referred. Government. Oxford and Cambridge universities do a tremendous Mr Clappison: One of the crosses that the Government amount of outreach activities, certainly far more than may have to bear as a result of that guidance is a great 20 or 30 years ago. They devote a lot of effort to that. deal of scrutiny of grades, and comparisons between One unfairness of the approach now being taken is that the grades that people from certain schools received, the more outreach universities do, the more they are and which universities they successfully applied to. I told they are not doing enough. They seem never to be have a lot of confidence in university admissions tutors able to please their bureaucratic master in the form of and their approach to the job, particularly in the most the Office for Fair Access. The Minister looks puzzled, selective universities. but it was in his letter, which I quoted, that the Government said that progress over the past few years has been Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): I, too, congratulate inadequate. my hon. Friend on securing this debate on an important subject. In August last year, the Minister told the Daily Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): The power of Mail: what the hon. Gentleman is saying is important, but I “Admissions policies are for universities, not for Ministers” passionately disagree with nearly everything he has Does my hon. Friend agree? said. Does he acknowledge that the central difference between now and previously is the level of the fee Mr Clappison: That happily brings me to my next income? Will he reflect on the fact that although more point. I imagine that the Minister will say, in his fair young people from poorer backgrounds are at university, way, exactly what he said to the Daily Mail afew the number of those who make it to the most selective months ago. I am sure he will be anxious to reassure us universities remains largely flat, despite young people that the Government intend universities to be free to from state schools getting better grades. We must understand continue to make judgments and admissions based on the effectiveness of much of that outreach work. individual merit. However, in light of the guidance given to universities by the Office for Fair Access, I am Mr Clappison: The right hon. Gentleman raises many afraid I will not able to place as much confidence in the points, and I will try to deal with some of them as I go Minister’s reassurance as I would like, and it would be along. I would like to see as many applications as stretching my credulity to accept it at face value. In the possible to a wide range of institutions. The students long directive from the Office for Fair Access, the word who apply to universities must be selected on merit, and “merit” appears only once after 25 paragraphs of detailed the pressure that the Government are applying cuts instructions to universities, backed by the threat of across that principle. financial pressure: “so long as individuals are considered on their merits and institutions’ Mr Lammy: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? procedures are fair, transparent and evidence based.” 191WH University Admission8 MARCH 2011 University Admission 192WH

[Mr Clappison] from state schools, how does that equate to disadvantage? The headmaster of an independent school in my That is the only place I can find the word “merit”, and it constituency wrote to me about the Government guidelines: appears in much the same place as one would expect to “The principle of widening access to university is an excellent find the legal small print in an advertising brochure. one. But I know you will share my concern that disadvantage should not be equated with education in the state sector. Any lack Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): As my hon. of social mobility in the UK has causes that start even at the Friend may know, I voted against the trebling of tuition pre-school level: attempts to fix them at the point of university entrance are dangerous, misguided and unfair. Independent schools fees. I did that as someone who has been to one of the have large numbers of disadvantaged pupils receiving financial top universities on a maximum grant. When I applied to support: they do not deserve to be discriminated against.” that university, I was looking not for privileged treatment Ministers seem particularly interested in admission in the admission exam, but for fair treatment, and for to Oxford and Cambridge, and although there are many the ability to afford the course if I were fortunate other good universities, they choose to focus particularly enough to be successful. We were told that trebling fees on those. Is it the Government’s case that a lower would not put off people from poorer backgrounds proportion of independent school students who are from applying. We are now told that in order for people admitted to Oxford and Cambridge go on to obtain a from poorer backgrounds to apply, we must socially first-class degree than students from other backgrounds? engineer the people who get in. The narrative seems to That would appear to be the gist of the Government’s have changed and it now contradicts what was said justification. Will the Minister supply evidence of a before. Instead of people getting in on merit, they are difference in degree performance between state sector getting in on considerations of social position. and independent sector school students at Oxford and Cambridge? Even if the Government are able to provide Mr Clappison: My hon. Friend’s point will be widely such evidence—it will be interesting to see whether they shared and many people have come to the same conclusion. can—surely that would be a matter for Oxford and There is always a problem with such attempts to Cambridge to take into account, and to exercise their compensate. Even though bursaries are rightly awarded judgment independently without pressure from the to people from lower-income families, there will always Government. be a family on lower-middle income, or in straitened circumstances, who remain just above the level at which A number of hon. Members may wish to ask questions bursaries are awarded. They are called the “squeezed of the Minister. To conclude, let me say that we all middle.” When the previous Government introduced share—certainly in the Conservative party—the objectives fees at a much lower level, my right hon. and learned of promoting excellence and spreading opportunity. Friend the Secretary of State for Justice raised that However, in light of some of the interventions I have issue as a particular problem with the fee system, and it received, the Minister must explain how the Government’s is a matter to which we must devote some research. We plans for influencing university admissions will help all want students to be encouraged to go to the university raise standards in schools where standards need to be of their choice and not to be discouraged by their raised, and how they will help to raise aspiration. Should financial circumstances. the Government not focus on improving standards in schools, establishing a positive ethos and, above all, Mr Lammy rose— raising expectations? I believe that is happening in the Education Bill, but the guidelines hardly seem like a vote of confidence for that. Would that not be a better Mr Clappison: Will the right hon. Gentleman contain course to take, and rather more in line with our traditional himself because I have a number of questions to put to principles and ways of thinking, than the route taken in the Minister? I hope there will be other chances to the guidelines, which are bureaucratic, complex and debate this matter in future. impose considerable burdens on universities? Above all, I have some questions arising from letters that I have as I have said, the guidelines put significant financial received from my constituents and independent schools pressure on universities. That cuts across the principle in my constituency. Is it not the case that universities are of admission on merit and sits uneasily with the being put under tremendous financial pressure to come Government’s creditable objectives of abolishing top-down into line with the outcomes that central Government targets and promoting localism and decentralised decision wish to bring about through the Office for Fair Access, making. We must devote more time to this matter as irrespective of the principle of merit? As advocated by there is a lot of interest in the debate from all parties. I the Government, the principle of merit is a face saver, hope that the Minister will begin, in his very fair manner, but the reality is that the financial pressure on universities to give some indication of the Government’s thinking puts them in an invidious position. Universities are told on this issue, and tell us what evidence lies behind it. the outcomes they are expected to achieve, and financial pressure is put on them because they will not be able to charge the fees they wish if they do not achieve those 12.48 pm outcomes. That cuts right across the principle of merit which, much as Ministers may talk about it, cannot be The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David sustained in light of the detailed guidance provided. Willetts): I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) for securing the opportunity Will the Minister explain why the first access performance to debate this important issue. As he was so generous in indicator relates to what he said about me personally, let me reciprocate. I “the percentage of students admitted from state schools or colleges”? understand his personal commitment to what he rightly Given that a clear majority of pupils, including those described as the principle of merit—meritocracy. I would who apply to the most prestigious universities, come argue that equality of opportunity, rather than equality 193WH University Admission8 MARCH 2011 University Admission 194WH of outcome, is a key principle that the Conservative Mr Willetts: I shall now give way to my hon. Friend. party believes in and that is probably shared by all parties. Mr Baron: My right hon. Friend is being generous. Is The question is about how we apply the principle of that not the point? No one could disagree with equality merit and ensure meritocracy. The argument that we in of opportunity. We are trying to assess potential. However, government have gone though is as follows. First, we it is not for the Government to assess potential; it is for would all accept that, when going to university, merit the universities to assess potential. That is the key involves some assessment of potential, not just what point, and something that I think the Minister is missing. has already been achieved academically. Let us put ourselves in the position of an admissions tutor at one Mr Willetts: I agree that it is for universities to assess of the universities that my hon. Friend mentions. Let us potential. Let me take hon. Members through the next say that two 18-year-olds present themselves. One has stages of the argument. There is a disagreement of had an incredibly tough upbringing and been to a principle. I am surprised that people could imagine that rather mediocre school with low educational standards, our universities have ever simply gone on academic the other has had every advantage in life and benefited marks already achieved. My understanding of how they from high-quality schooling, but they have the same have always operated is that they have tried to assess A-level grades. We would probably all intuitively reach potential, and an understanding of merit does indeed a judgment about who had the higher underlying intellectual involve consideration of the aptitude for future academic merit. accomplishment. The question is how that should be done. Historically it has happened, but it has been done Dr Julian Lewis rose— on a discretionary basis. We all have a picture in our mind of the elderly Oxbridge don sucking at his pipe as Mr Baron rose— the interview candidates come through and assessing who might be best able to benefit from such an education, Mr Willetts: We might go further and say that the making an assessment that goes beyond simply the student who had lower grades but who came from the marks that they have already achieved. tougher background might have higher potential than However, it is very hard to operate a system on the the other student. That is our starting point. I see that basis of the personal discretion of the don or academic requests for interventions are already piling in. I will in a world in which, first, we are dealing with mass accept brief interventions. higher education; secondly, it is very important that those judgments be transparent and not be capricious, Dr Lewis: My right hon. Friend is, as always, extremely because otherwise they could be on the basis of personal kind. I say to him that as someone who was in that bias; and thirdly, those judgments should be legally position—someone who came from a poor household—I defensible. That is why it is very important that we have was prepared to be judged on the marks that I actually objective evidence. got, even though people in competition with me went Let me now turn to the legitimate challenge from my through, shall we say, more advantaged educational hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere: do we have any processes, because once we start monkeying around evidence? I shall cite two papers that try to get to the with the grades and saying that the person with the heart of the issue by assessing the relative chances of higher marks should not get the place, we are in very people getting a good degree when they go to university. dangerous and subjective territory indeed. There have been two recent studies, and experts will be able to assess their rigour. There has been a study of Mr Willetts: I hope to show my hon. Friend that it is Oxford and a separate study in Bristol. Both examined not subjective, but absolutely it has to be about merit. I the likelihood of getting a good degree, measured as a am not aware of any major higher education system in 2:1 or a first. We could apply what I would regard as a the world that says that the sole criterion for getting in defensible, meritocratic criterion: we will accept students is the exam marks that a person has already achieved. I on the basis that they will have an equal chance of would be interested to know whether my hon. Friend getting a 2:1 or a first. The studies found that students even believes that our own universities in the past have who came from schools where there had been particularly ever solely used exam marks already achieved, rather high academic standards got higher A-level grades relative than considering merit by including some assessment of to their chances of getting a 2:1 or a first than prospective potential. students from other backgrounds. I therefore hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Several hon. Members rose— New Forest East (Dr Lewis) will accept that, if we are to apply the principle of merit, one reasonable way of Mr Willetts: I see that a lot of Members want to doing so would be to accept students on the basis that intervene. There are nine minutes to go. I shall give way we are considering potential, based on an equal chance to the former Minister. of getting a 2:1 or a first. Otherwise we would not be applying the principle of merit. We would be selecting Mr Lammy: I just want to confirm what the Minister students because they had good A-levels, rather than on said. Entrance to university in this country has always the basis of their academic merit. been based on attainment and achievement, potential, and aptitude to perform. There is lots of academic Mr Clappison: My right hon. Friend was kind enough evidence that children from poorer backgrounds who to supply me with a copy of a speech that he had get to universities do better than those from independent already made in which he referred to that evidence. He schools. drew certain conclusions from it, which he has just 195WH University Admission8 MARCH 2011 University Admission 196WH

[Mr Clappison] Of course we hope that in the long run our school reforms will mean that that problem disappears, but as referred to now. The three authors of the report were a Conservative I have to deal with the world as it is, and called Ogg, Zimdars and Heath. Has my right hon. teaching standards in secondary schools diverge. I hope Friend read the whole report? that when teaching standards in all secondary schools are the same, these types of exercise will not be necessary, Mr Willetts: I confess—it may be a rather sad but while teaching standards in secondary schools diverge, confession—that I have read the whole paper. Of course, the assessment of potential cannot be based simply on there will be continuing dispute about its content, but I the points that someone has achieved in their A-levels have read it. The question is, having gone this far— or elsewhere. Universities have to be able to exercise that judgment. They ask, quite rightly, for a framework from us, and we make demands of them. We agree that the Mr Clappison rose— criteria should be fair, transparent and evidence based. There will not be quotas. There will not be a specific Mr Willetts: I will give way, but we have only four requirement on a university to select people on a specific minutes left and I want to respond to another challenge; basis. I am getting behind on the challenges. However, universities will have to show what they are doing to broaden access so that children from the most Mr Clappison: How does my right hon. Friend square disadvantaged backgrounds, who are clearly under- what he has said with the actual conclusion of the performing at the moment when it comes to getting to report, to which he did not choose to refer? The authors our most selective universities, have a fair opportunity of the report said that there was a slight difference to go there. Otherwise, we will not be delivering meritocracy. between state and independent schools and it ought to We will be rewarding the people with the best A-level be taken into account. However, it already was taken grades; we will not be choosing the best and brightest to into account by academics in the admissions process. go to our research-intensive universities. That is morally The report says that wrong; it is not the principle of meritocracy; and it is “according to earlier research using the OAS data set, the selectors economically wasteful. at Oxford in fact appear to already discount the GCSE grades of We can no longer rely on the old discretionary procedures, private school students…One might therefore be tempted to because they would be too capricious and they would suggest that the selectors at Oxford have done their job of getting be subject, rightly, to legal challenge. We have to have the best students to Oxford fairly well.” mechanisms, put forward by universities, that are fair, The authors go on to say that there is no evidence of transparent and evidence based. Universities tell us that under-performance by private school students. they understand that and welcome the fact that we are providing guidance and that they will not have to impose Mr Willetts: The crucial thing is that what universities quotas. They will ultimately be deciding, on a case-by-case have said they expect of us, quite reasonably, is a basis, on the merits of the individual person. However, framework for their decisions that is—I shall quote our that judgment must be based on assessment of potential, letter to OFFA—“fair, transparent and evidence-based”. and assessment of potential can no longer be done on Let me turn, in the few minutes left, to the crucial issue the basis of personal whim and discretion. They have to about universities. I value the autonomy of universities. have something that is defensible to all of us as fair, We are not telling universities whom to select. We transparent and evidence based. That is what our letter operate within a legal framework that goes back to the to OFFA is about. I believe that it passes the tests that Further and Higher Education Act 1992, which makes my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere has set out. it absolutely clear that it is not for Ministers and the It is consistent with the principle of merit; indeed, it is Government to determine the admission of students. necessary in order to deliver the principle of merit. It What we are trying to do is, quite simply, ask universities does not intervene in the individual admissions decisions to choose for themselves and set out for themselves the of universities and it is evidence based. criteria that they will use to ensure that we are not I look forward to continuing these exchanges with my wasting talent in this country because there are children hon. Friend, because I fully understand his passionate whose underlying abilities are being hidden by bad commitment to equality of opportunity. That is a principle education. in which all in our party believe. 197WH 8 MARCH 2011 Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) 198WH

Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) The evidence for those cuts has been set out in an exchange of correspondence between the leader of the council and Ministers. NCVS anticipates that £47.5 million 12.59 pm of council funding for the voluntary sector last year Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): May I could shrink to about £29.5 million this year, which is a say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, 38% drop. That reduction includes the loss of £7.5 million Ms Osborne? from the working neighbourhoods fund and £3.5 million from the future jobs fund, £7.6 million of cuts to The voluntary sector in Nottingham is doing a huge Supporting People funding, cuts to commissioned services amount for our city and its citizens. It provides services, and likely reductions in grant aid and in-kind support. support and advocacy to a wide range of groups, including some of the most vulnerable in society, as well as raising Although cuts to local authority funding are the awareness, campaigning and fundraising. It also offers biggest worry for local groups, they come alongside thousands of volunteering opportunities, which are big changes to the way in which groups can access important in strengthening our civil society and sense alternative funding. Those changes include, for example, of community, but which also provide vital experience the introduction of charges and direct payments for and skills to people seeking to move into paid work. social care and the upheaval in the health service, which Finally, of course, it provides employment to many is also a commissioner of services. Some groups will people who are committed to making Nottingham a also be hit by the Government’s 60% cut in funding for better place to live. asylum advice and the decision to end entirely funding for advice to people with refugee status. Refugee Action There are 678 registered charities in Nottingham. has been forced to leave Nottingham and to offer only Nottingham Community and Voluntary Service, the outreach from its Leicester office. Legal aid cuts will local support organisation for the voluntary and community also prevent Nottingham’s advice agencies from responding sector, has more than 1,000 local groups on its database, effectively to increasing local need. including charities, community groups and social enterprises. I am grateful to have the opportunity today to pay Last Tuesday, the Nottingham Post reported that 40 tribute to the fantastic work that the voluntary sector services in the city and the county are at risk of closure. carries out in Nottingham, but I also want to express the hope that action can be taken to protect the sector Anna Soubry: Will the hon. Lady give way? before it is too late. I must tell hon. Members that Nottingham’s voluntary sector faces a crisis brought on Lilian Greenwood: I am sorry, but I have said that my by the Government’s spending cuts and the particularly time is very limited. severe reduction in funding for our local authority. By this morning, that list had grown to include 35 services In its response to the city council’s budget consultation, that are due to close, 16 that are at serious risk of the NCVS has stated that closure and 12 that will be reduced. Those include “we believe that direct support to the sector from the council in services for children, such as play sessions and toy 2010/11 totalled approximately £47.5 million. This is testament to libraries, help and support for teenage parents, services both the strength of our local voluntary sector and the spirit of partnership working developed over many years by the Council”. for the mentally ill and their carers, a handy person scheme for the elderly and projects supporting women It is clear that Nottingham is already doing what the and children suffering domestic abuse. The support Government say they want local councils to do by using service for those who are homeless, or who could become specialist providers in the community and voluntary homeless without adequate support, is particularly hard sector to provide services to local people. hit. Over the past week, Delia Monk, the local government In the time available, I cannot possibly set out the full correspondent for our local paper, the Nottingham Post, range of support services that will be lost as a result of has revealed the impact that spending cuts are having this Tory-led Government’s choices, or describe individuals on the many different groups that make up the sector. and families and the ways they will be affected, so I The paper has done the community a great service by intend to focus on three issues: how the reductions in bringing the crisis to public attention and explaining Supporting People will impact on not only service users, how and why it should matter to us all. but the wider community, and how they will cost us all Local groups face this funding crisis because of more than they save; how opportunities for volunteers Government decisions to cut local authority funding and volunteering will be undermined rather than enhanced; too far and too fast. The Government claim that and how employment and the local economy will suffer. Nottingham’s spending power will be reduced by 8.4% The previous Government introduced Supporting People in 2011-12, but the actual figure is 16.5%. That masks funding to provide housing-related support, such as even deeper cuts to needs-based grants, which have now services to support homeless people and services to help been rolled up into the total settlement. Those cuts individuals with learning disabilities or mental health include the scrapping of the working neighbourhoods issues to live independently in their own homes and to fund and the future jobs fund and the 48% reduction in participate in the community. An independent evaluation Nottingham’s allocation for Supporting People. by Capgemini for the Government in 2009 estimated that national expenditure of £1.6 billion generated net Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): Will the hon. Lady savings of £3.4 billion by avoiding the need for more give way? costly acute services. I know from my own casework that the lack of proper support for vulnerable people—for Lilian Greenwood: No, I am sorry, but my time is very example, those with mental health issues or substance limited. misuse problems—can lead to difficulties with neighbours, 199WH Voluntary Sector (Nottingham)8 MARCH 2011 Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) 200WH

[Lilian Greenwood] The second area that I want to highlight is the impact on volunteering. Given that the Government have said require intervention by the local housing office, police that a key objective of the so-called big society is and health services, and ultimately threaten people’s “encouraging and enabling people to play a more active part in tenancies. society”, Framework is a homelessness charity based in my it seems incomprehensible that they are making cuts city, which provides housing, support, training, care that undermine the very organisations that provide and resettlement services. It often works with those those opportunities. groups that are most marginalised and stigmatised, including ex-offenders, people with a history of alcohol or substance misuse, and Gypsies and Travellers. In Anna Soubry: Will the hon. Lady give way? addition to being a direct provider of services, Framework heads a number of consortia of smaller specialist Lilian Greenwood: It is normal to ask in advance of organisations that fulfil contracts commissioned by the the commencement of a debate whether it would be city council. okay to intervene. I am afraid that the hon. Lady did Of the £22.3 million the city council spent on Supporting not do that, and I am short of time, so I will not. I am People services last year, approximately £7.5 million sorry. was spent through Framework contracts. In 2011-12, Nottingham volunteer centre supports groups to recruit that figure is due to fall to approximately £3.5 million, and retain volunteers, as well as helping potential volunteers resulting in the complete loss of 10 services and reductions to find suitable placements. In the past year, the centre in a further two. The 10 to be closed include specialist matched about 2,500 people with volunteering opportunities floating—that is, home-visiting—services for people with in the city. A recent survey also found that volunteers in problems related to the use of illegal substances and Nottingham gave more than 1 million hours of their alcohol. Such services have helped more than 500 service time free, to support local people. If the volunteers were users in the past year. Other services to be closed paid for their work, it would cost more than £14 million. include floating support for teenage parents, which In less than four weeks, all funding to support volunteering supported 128 young people in 2010-1, a 16-bed hostel in Nottingham will end. The volunteer centre is affected and five supported move-on flats for young people with by the scrapping of the working neighbourhoods fund complex needs. Without such support services, people and the national youth volunteering programme, with real needs face the prospect of getting into difficulty vinvolved—eight members of staff are losing their jobs. with their rent and housing, not looking after themselves The Government plan a new national citizen service for or their home properly, becoming isolated and possibly young people, but, as far as we are aware, none of those placing a much greater burden on local services. Such projects will take place in Nottingham, and the valuable people do not have a strong voice and do not always expertise and infrastructure that has been built up in the enjoy widespread public support. city will soon disappear completely. We should be concerned about these cuts, because we are compassionate and care about social justice, but In Nottingham, more than half the volunteer centre’s even on a more practical level, they are short-sighted in service users were aged 25 or under, and when I visited the extreme. It will cost us all more to deal with problems the project recently I was impressed by the commitment when they become urgent, when they could have been and skills of the staff. Last year, 16% of the people avoided through less expensive preventive measures. supported by the V project were classed as not in That is the principle behind the early intervention work education, employment or training. At a time of record pioneered by my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham youth unemployment, when one in five young people is North (Mr Allen), for which our city is rightly recognised. unable to find work, it seems both cruel and foolish to There will also be non-financial costs because of the cut off that vital link to skills, training and confidence distress caused to service users, their families, their for the most disadvantaged groups. That is best summed neighbours and people in their local community. Many up in the words of a young woman who at first doubted of us remember the sight of rough sleepers on our city her ability to make a worthwhile contribution through streets, and none of us wants to return to those days, yet volunteering. She said: the Government’s actions make that a real risk. “I doubted myself…who was I kidding to think I could do something so mature like help at a hospice. I called Charmaine at The Government claim that the national Supporting Vinvolved to tell her that I didn’t think could do it. She was People budget has not been significantly reduced, but it brilliant…she reassured me....I’m so glad I called her as I was has certainly been redistributed away from areas of ready to give up....3 months have passed and I’m still volunteering. high need. Nottingham is the 13th most deprived local My confidence has grown loads.... I really feel like I am making a authority in the country and is suffering the 21st largest difference.” reductions in formula grant funding, whereas Windsor With 40% of the centre’s users out of work at the and Maidenhead, which ranks 323rd in terms of time they come in to volunteer, not only will the loss of deprivation, has seen its spending cut by just over 1%. the service reduce the opportunities available for people In Nottingham, the council has sought to cushion the to retrain and improve their skills and employability, at impact on the voluntary sector by not passing on the a time when demand for the service is expected to rise, impact of the full cuts—almost £10 million in 2011-12—to but it will also deprive dozens of organisations of Supporting People. With the level of reductions already potential volunteers. Unfortunately, as local community being made to other parts of council services, the ability and voluntary sector groups are unsure of the future of to protect the sector is limited, and it is inevitable that their own services, they are also losing the capacity to front-line services will be affected now and in the years recruit and train volunteers. In most cases having fewer to come. paid staff will mean fewer volunteers, not more. 201WH Voluntary Sector (Nottingham)8 MARCH 2011 Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) 202WH

That brings me to the third point that I want to The debate in our local press has brought the work of highlight, which is that the cuts will lead to a significant the voluntary and community sector, which often goes reduction in employment. Nottingham city Unison, the unnoticed, to the public attention. I hope I have been local union branch that represents many voluntary sector able to highlight some of the work under threat. It has staff in the city, reports that more than 1,000 members also raised questions and concerns among the people have been placed at risk of redundancy. Others face whom we serve, and now I want to put those questions proposals to make significant cuts to their terms and before the Minister. How can it be fair for councils that conditions in a sector where pay is not generally high. serve the most disadvantaged communities to suffer the NCVS-commissioned research from 2010 indicated that deepest cuts? How can we expect people to take voluntary organisations benefit the local community by responsibility for themselves, while at the same time employing local people, so the job cuts and pay cuts will cutting away the support they need to do so? What affect the spending power of hundreds of families in good is talking about a big society while removing the Nottingham. Coupled with job losses in local government, infrastructure that it needs? Nottingham people want the police, the health service and the construction industry, answers, and I hope that the Minister has them ready. following the Government’s decision to cancel investment in new school buildings and better social housing, they Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Order. I just want to will further undermine the ability of our local economy point out that in half-hour debates the Chair’s practice to recover from the recession. is to call the Member who obtained the debate, and the I could say so much more. On the 100th anniversary Minister. The Chair will call other Members to speak of international women’s day it is particularly saddening only if the Member in charge and the Minister indicate to read of the loss of services for women, such as the in advance that they are content. Whether Members closure of Noelle House, the only gender-specific accept interventions or not is a matter for them. homelessness service in the city, and the loss of courses for teenage parents run by Platform 51, formerly the 1.17 pm YoungWomen’s Christian Association, which were funded by the local primary care trust. The Women’s Voluntary Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Thank Action Network is so concerned that it has appealed to you, Ms Osborne. [Interruption.] There is a sort of the Minister for Women and Equalities to intervene. chuntering noise somewhere in the Chamber. I do not Black and minority ethnic communities will also feel know whether it is the microphone. Perhaps it is picking the effect of the Tory-led Government’s decisions. Tuntum up some interference. housing association reports cuts of 80% in its Supporting People funding, which will remove all the assistance it Anna Soubry: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? currently provides for vulnerable young people, primarily from BME backgrounds, and particularly young women. Chris Leslie: I thought it might be the hon. Member I have no doubt that the Minister will say that the for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry). I will give way if I can just cuts were inevitable and that what I have described is speak for a couple of minutes. [Interruption.] If the the legacy of a Labour Government who left the national hon. Lady will allow me— coffers empty; but people in Nottingham are not gullible. They understand that the money spent on British schools, Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Order. The hon. hospitals and police officers did not cause the recession Gentleman is not accepting an intervention. that was felt in Ireland, France, Greece and the USA. They know that we had to borrow money to bail out the Chris Leslie: It is not very becoming of the hon. banks and that tax receipts plummeted, making the Lady. Some might say that she is plucky in the way she deficit inevitable. They also know that the decision to is disrupting the proceedings, but others might say she cut the deficit as deep and fast as the Government are has quite a lot of brass neck. [Interruption.] We are doing is a political choice. My concern is that that talking about a subject that is incredibly serious, and political choice will have devastating effects in the city I there should be all-party consensus on the matter, given represent, and that those bearing the brunt are the very that we are not talking about hanging baskets, coffee people who are least able to withstand it, including the mornings or other such elements of the voluntary sector; poor, the old, the young, the disabled, the mentally ill we are talking about homelessness and people who may and the homeless. well find they have nowhere to reside, if their current The Minister will doubtless say that that is the fault accommodation closes. of Nottingham city council, but not a single Communities Without getting into too much detail about the grant and Local Government Minister would meet representatives formula settlement, the simple point that I want to of the council or the city’s voluntary sector when they make in my couple of minutes is that homelessness came down to Westminster last Monday to voice their charities and hostels are the things that most people will concerns about the unfair settlement imposed on our feel particularly strongly about. They are, after all, the city. last resort for many of the people who are in greatest need. They provide specialist support and acute help for Anna Soubry: Will the hon. Lady give way? people with mental difficulties, drug and alcohol problems Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Order. and learning disabilities. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) mentioned Lilian Greenwood: Perhaps the Minister will also say the charity Framework and some of its hostels. In my that the council should cut backroom functions and constituency I am particularly concerned about the make efficiency savings. Well, it is already doing those closure of the Handel Street centre, which specialises in things, cutting corporate services by 20%. It has already dealing with drug and alcohol problems. The new Albion reduced the chief executive’s pay. hostel with 21 flats is potentially under threat. My hon. 203WH Voluntary Sector (Nottingham)8 MARCH 2011 Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) 204WH

[Chris Leslie] Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene, given the Friend mentioned the Noelle House closure. There is short time that he has left. Is he aware that Nottingham also Acorn Lodge in St Anne’s, which is run by the city council has compensated two previous chief executives Salvation Army, for homeless people over 55. that it could not get on with, has sent an executive to the The consequences are obvious in terms of rough south of France on jollies and has hired a cherry picker sleeping and potential disorder, but it is the ill health to remove conkers from a tree? Would it have been issues that worry me most, such as the knock-on effects better to spend that money on the voluntary sector on accident and emergency, bed-blocking and so forth. rather than wasting it like that? We are expected to believe in the big society, but I wonder whether it is realistic to expect private philanthropy Mr Hurd: My hon. Friend makes a powerful case, to fill the void in what has been the historic support for which brings me to my next point. However difficult these services. That is my concern. I urge the Minister to this environment may be, it boils down to local choices, reconsider the quick withdrawal of this grant support and local choice is often dictated by decisions taken in given that there is no alternative plan. the past. I give way to the hon. Member for Broxtowe. They are local choices, but it is clear to me that the picture is very different around the country, with some Anna Soubry: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman local authorities—perhaps they were better run in the for giving way. Over the years, Nottingham city council past, with a greater eye for efficiency and spending on has spent excessive money not only on political advisers what is really valuable—being in a position to minimise for the Labour group but on promotional publicity, reductions to the voluntary and community sector. foreign jaunts and the like. It is unfortunate that the Indeed, places such as Reading and Wiltshire have Labour-run city council did not use that money—taxpayers’ increased investment, or are engaging in a process with money—on the very services that he now is so keen to that sector that is more transparent, more up-front and protect. more engaged. There is a mixed picture across the country. Chris Leslie: I had a feeling that the hon. Lady would want to make a political point. As predicted, some I know from personal contact with representatives of would say that she has a brass neck intervening on that Nottinghamshire’s voluntary community sector that there point, given that it distracts from the primary issues are problems on the ground. I wrote to every Member that we face. There will always be examples of lower of Parliament offering to meet members of the local levels of expenditure on which local councillors will voluntary community sector, and I know that my hon. disagree, but given the sums involved—it is in multi-millions Friends the Members for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) and of pounds—it is not credible for the hon. Lady to say for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) took up my invitation. I that that is the driver for the withdrawal of some of met representatives of the sector there, and they directly those services. expressed their concerns to me, which were principally about how the county council had managed the process of engagement. Anna Soubry indicated dissent. In the little time that remains, I shall try to set out our Chris Leslie: The hon. Lady disagrees—she has her stall and say what the Government are trying to do to point of view—but we have to do more to help the help in this incredibly difficult situation. Clear messages homeless in Nottingham and in my constituency. have been sent to local authorities on the best way of behaving in this situation. The Prime Minister gave a clear steer, asking councils to cut their cost bases and 1.21 pm make their own efficiencies before starting to think of The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick making what might seem to be easy cuts to the voluntary Hurd): It is a great pleasure to serve under your sector. That is what my local authority has done, and chairmanship, Ms Osborne. many others are doing so, too. I congratulate the hon. Member for Nottingham That approach is clearly not happening across the South (Lilian Greenwood) on securing this debate. She piece, however, which is why I am delighted that my started by paying an extremely sincere tribute to her colleagues at the Department for Communities and local voluntary community sector and her local paper. I Local Government have gone further. They are urging began to lose respect for her speech, however, when she local authorities to be much more transparent about failed to recognise the difficulties faced not only by the their spending on the voluntary and community sector, Government but by those trying to govern local authority so that the people whom we represent can see what is areas. being done in their names and exactly what choices are The situation is horrendously difficult for everyone. being made—for instance, decisions on county hall The hon. Lady spoke of political choices, but I did not salaries compared with cuts for the local voluntary and go into politics to make spending cuts, and I doubt community sector. The public have a right to know whether the people on Nottingham city council did so what is being done in their name. either. The cuts were forced on us by the shambles that resulted from the previous Administration’s stewardship Anna Soubry: I am grateful to the Minister for giving of our public finances, but she showed no recognition way. It is most unfortunate that of all the local authorities of that. I leave to one side whatever happened in the in England, it is Nottingham that still refuses to publish past to the administration of the various Nottinghamshire expenditure of more than £500. One wonders what is councils. the problem—what has Nottingham got to hide? 205WH Voluntary Sector (Nottingham)8 MARCH 2011 Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) 206WH

Mr Hurd: That is certainly the question in my mind it will be an enormously positive opportunity for local and in the mind of the Secretary of State for Communities young people, and a fantastically good process of and Local Government. We, in Parliament, know the connecting them and giving them the power to make a power of transparency—we know that it gives real contribution to community. power to citizens. In this instance, the public have the Last but not least, we ask ourselves the question, right to know how their money is being spent and what “What can we do to make it easier for charities, social choices are being made. We are trying to help by sending enterprises and voluntary organisations to deliver public a strong steer to local authorities and allowing the services?” The sector currently delivers about 2% of public to make up their mind about local decisions. contract value, but we would like it to do much more. We have set aside £100 million of taxpayers’ money—a We are working towards publishing a White Paper on significant sum—as a transition fund to help voluntary public service reform, which will specifically address sector organisations. Many are finding themselves terribly what should be done to open up the public service exposed to cuts of grant or in contracts, and need some markets to more competition. Under it, charities and help to get out of the hole—as long as they have a plan social enterprises will have the opportunity to deliver to do so. We continue to invest on behalf of the taxpayer more public services, with some of the real value being in that sector. My Department has a budget of £470 in supporting those people mentioned so eloquently by million, and we structure what we do around three the hon. Member for Nottingham South. In my experience, questions. with some of the really difficult things—getting the First, we ask what we are doing to make it easier to long-term unemployed back into work or keeping people run voluntary community sector organisations. That out of jail or off drugs—really valuable work is being involves cutting red tape to make it easier for those who done by quite small community organisations or social have the incredibly difficult job of running small charities enterprises. We want to level the playing field to make it or civil society organisations. We continue to invest in much easier for such organisations to deliver public the infrastructure that exists to support the sector. We services. want to make it much more effective. Secondly, we ask what we can do to get more Lilian Greenwood: Will the Minister give way? resources—both time and money—into the sector. We published a Green Paper on giving, which will become a Mr Hurd: I shall not give way, as this is my last White Paper. We are well on track to deliver a big minute and the hon. Lady spoke for a long time. society bank, which will make it much easier for social None of this is easy, but we are actively trying to help entrepreneurs to access capital, and we are coming up the sector and local authorities through the difficult with new programmes such as the National Citizen process of managing this transition. We want to minimise Service, which I hope will be available in Nottinghamshire the damage in the short term, and maximise the before too long. We are about to commission next year’s opportunities for the voluntary and community sector pilots, with 30,000 places. I urge the hon. Member for so as to unlock the potential that is out there for Nottingham South to engage with it when it arrives, as improving more lives. 207WH 8 MARCH 2011 Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) 208WH

Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) formed. The partnership is led by David Green, who is personally so committed to sustainable living that he 1.29 pm has turned his own home into a show home for renewable technologies. Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): I am glad to be speaking today about eco-island. A group of The new partnership will act as a conduit and funding environmentalists saw the opportunity to make Isle vehicle for the roll-out of new green technologies. A of Wight the first truly sustainable region in Britain. As number of strategic projects and initiatives are already this issue clearly transcends departmental responsibilities, in the pipeline, including the installation of solar panels, I understand that the Minister may not have all the free of charge, on social housing. While the panels are information at his fingertips. In terms of being able to generating, the tenant will get a contribution to their demonstrate sustainability, the island is almost perfect. energy needs. The feed-in tariff payments will cover the It is a microcosm of the mainland, with a manageably financial investment and generate funds to invest in sized population and a well-defined border. It is the other green community projects on the island. perfect place in which to bring to reality a vision of A key area for long-term investment is helping people living in balance with the land. and businesses to reduce energy use. Energy conservation Isle of Wight has great natural beauty, but it is not projects, in tandem with renewable energy generation, Utopia; it is faced with many challenges. It is dependent will make the eco-island goal of carbon neutrality easier on the mainland for much of its food, power, water and to achieve quickly and economically. The focus will be fuel. To become truly self-sustaining, fundamental changes, on making existing housing less power-hungry both to both physical and social, must be made. To attain the improve living standards and to cut energy bills. eco-island vision, the energy equation must be addressed. Eco-island is not just about solving the energy equation. At present, the island is almost entirely dependent on As part of the vision, other challenges will be addressed. the coal and oil-fired power stations on the mainland. Electric cars and bikes will be introduced, thereby reducing Eco-island would introduce a whole new raft of technologies dependence on fossil fuels. Public transport will be to change that. Isle of Wight needs 575 GW-hours of promoted. The use of water will be cut, thus reducing electricity to become self-sufficient. Much of that could the island’s dependence on supplies from the mainland. be achieved with a mix of solar voltaic panels on the Local produce will be collected from farmers via a local roofs of social and private housing; solar thermal addressing food hub to supply shops, hotels and restaurants that some of the hot water and heating needs; wind, tidal are keen to “buy local”. The Eco-Island Partnership is and geothermal power; and energy recovered from waste also engaged in discussions about acting as a vehicle to recycling. The feed-in tariff designed for small installations manage a whole-island waste solution. It seeks to cut supports the roll-out of photovoltaic technologies on a landfill to zero, generate heat and power as by-products domestic scale. Solar farms on agricultural land may and stop waste being transported off the island. not be the best solution, but panels in business parks, and even awnings over car parks, could provide a significant Chale is one of the least populous parishes on the amount of energy. island, but it has 70 social houses and flats. Some of The feed-in tariff is currently under review. I am sure those ideas have already been piloted with the Chale that the Department of Energy and Climate Change community project, which received welcome support recognises that such schemes can successfully promote from DECC last year. Solar panels and effective insulation renewable energy across a broad range of properties. I were retro-fitted in 1960s houses. All windows were hope that that will be taken into account when decisions replaced, and air-source heat-pumps installed with new are made about the future of the feed-in tariff and other wet-radiator systems and tanks. That led to carbon schemes that are designed to promote renewable energy. savings of about 50% and reduced energy costs to tenants by up to 30%. Some 1,500 further installations A number of other positive initiatives are on the are now planned by the housing associations themselves horizon. The renewable heat incentive should be working with the Eco-Island Partnership. That project implemented as set out in consultation papers. It could proves that DECC funding, properly directed, can, as make a massive difference to the number of installations intended, produce a ripple effect increasing the renewable of ground and air-source heat pumps, combined heat energy infrastructure. and power plants fuelled by biomass, and solar thermal systems. Currently, eco-island plans need certainty about There are even bigger challenges. As more energy is the level of the RHI to encourage enough individual produced, the balance of the grid will slowly shift. The householders to take up the scheme. Will the Minister Eco-Island Partnership will install “smart meters” to give an indication whether the RHI is likely to be assist in managing peak supply and demand. The introduced at the planned levels? technology will gather and monitor data and shape Isle of Wight is blessed with more sunshine than demand, fitting it more closely with the availability of almost anywhere else in the United Kingdom. It has a renewable energy. Until they are used to the system, superb natural environment and could harvest a vast people will receive messages telling them when solar amount of energy direct from the sun. For workable panels are active or wind turbines are turning in their plans to be put in place, the Government must maintain area. Put simply, when renewable energy is being generated, their commitment to renewable energy generation. Eco- they will be reminded to put their washing on. Ultimately, island has already gained a good deal of interest and homes may be semi-automated, with smart meters activating support. appliances when renewable energy is available. With the support of the local council, the chambers The Eco-Island Partnership has started that work of commerce, tourism and local businesses, the Eco-Island and Isle of Wight is the perfect place in which to roll out Partnership, a community interest company, has been the technology. The benefits will be measurable and 209WH Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight)8 MARCH 2011 Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) 210WH quantifiable, but it is undoubtedly a difficult technical When viewed as a whole, eco-island looks like the big challenge. Can help be made available, in the form of society in action. When the big society bank comes into knowledge and technical expertise, to ensure that the existence, I hope that the Minister will make representations right technical solution is found for the island? The to ensure that such schemes can apply for support from benefit of that will be that once the right technology is it. The Eco-Island Partnership regards the eco-island in place and thoroughly trialled, the solution can be vision as being in tune with the big society ideas and promoted throughout the rest of the UK. localism. Part of the eco-island plan is to launch the greenback The Eco-Island Partnership is representative of a card, which will promote the benefits of renewable community that is trying to take some of its destiny energy and offer discounts to members of the community. back into its own hands, by seeking to address the big The card is designed to deliver significant savings to the issues and the realities that the community will face, as average island family throughout the year. The Eco-Island well as working towards a better quality of life for local Partnership will work towards improving the quality of business people, residents and visitors to the island. The life, increasing the island’s sustainability and reducing partnership is also trying to convey that message of the cost of living for eco-islanders, all at the same time. sustainability to the rest of the UK and to places There are also plans to create an eco-centre visitor further afield. The eco-island vision for the Isle of attraction on the island, which would be used to Wight is ambitious but it is grounded in reality. The demonstrate renewable energy technologies, showcase projects that the partnership is engaged in are large and the science of new builds and engage people in the challenging, but they address the problems that we face process of becoming more sustainable. Activities will be as a nation while remaining focused at the level of the related to growing, managing woodland, arable farming island itself. and livestock. All the materials used would be local and The people behind eco-island are resourceful, pragmatic the technology would be capable of being updated. and highly motivated. They care passionately about the Approaches have already been made to schools with a island. They view the various energy and environmental view to their using such a resource to support the challenges as opportunities to find solutions that will curriculum. The centre could also provide a valuable benefit the eco-island community and ultimately— focus to support the development of eco-tourism on the hopefully—the nation as a whole. The eco-island team island from the British isles and from further afield. would welcome the opportunity to have discussions Why not provide people with a showcase of how with Ministers and officials to explain the eco-island sustainability can work and of what a future sustainable strategy in more detail and to explore ways to develop society might look like? I would be grateful if Government the concept in line with Government aims. officials explored with David Green of the partnership whether any support might be available for this education 1.44 pm work. Representatives of the Eco-Island Partnership are The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for talking to major companies about possible employee Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): volunteering schemes, in the hope of attracting top Thank you, Ms Osborne. It is a great privilege to serve talent to help it with its work. BT and a number of under your chairmanship. other companies have agreed to help. A training scheme I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of could be developed with the Isle of Wight college, Wight (Mr Turner) on securing this debate and I also which would offer all the necessary building industry congratulate his constituents on what is really a remarkable qualifications and train up to 30 young people a year project. It is great to hear about this ambitious plan, for jobs in the renewable energy sector. Those young which has the potential to be an exemplar for sustainable people could work as apprentices as renewable technologies development in action. are installed. Just last week, my Department announced our plans Green businesses will be attracted to the island. Eco- for mainstreaming sustainable development across technology companies will enjoy a business incubator Government. The plans aim to ensure that sustainable environment and they will be at the centre of sustainable development is at the heart of everything that we do, technology development. In time, the partnership hopes from the way that we make our policies to how we to act as an “eco-dragons den” for new business ideas, operate our estates and procure our services. Our “greening offering start-up loans and pump-priming new initiatives Government” commitments were announced at the same and opportunities on the island. time and they set out challenging goals for Departments I would be grateful if the Minister indicated his to achieve, in terms of reducing waste and greenhouse support for these efforts to encourage eco-businesses. gas emissions and in terms of the steps that must be The partnership would like to receive help from DECC taken to address adaptation to climate change and or the Department for Environment, Food and Rural sustainable construction. The Government need to show Affairs to identify where assistance is available for green that we can get our house in order, to inspire others to business start-ups and employment training. Much of do the same. The eco-island strategy is a good example the funding for these plans will come from the private of a community recognising the need to do more to sector. The Eco-Island Partnership can provide a vehicle secure a sustainable future. for individuals and investment companies to invest in I realise that many of the issues that my hon. Friend ethical green community projects and it can act as a has raised are perhaps more relevant to my colleagues in “one-stop shop” for a variety of investment projects. the Department of Energy and Climate Change. However, The partnership is also working to establish a dedicated I am here today and I can assure him that DEFRA and eco-island equity fund, which would allow investors to DECC are two Departments that are joined at the hip, contribute directly to its work. and we are working closely together on our sustainable 211WH Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight)8 MARCH 2011 Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) 212WH

[Richard Benyon] My hon. Friend asked about the renewable heat incentive. The Government are committed to a massive policies and on our greening of Government. There is a expansion in renewable energy, of which supporting considerable overlap between the two Departments and renewable heat is an integral part. We remain committed I will try to address the points that he has raised. to the ambition to move from 1% to 12% of all heat My colleagues in DECC recently announced their generated being from a renewable source by 2020. The carbon plan, which is a cross-Government action plan renewable heat incentive represents an investment of on climate change backed by the Prime Minister and more than £860 million over the spending review period, the Deputy Prime Minister. It sets out strict deadlines and it will drive a more than tenfold increase in renewable and actions for Whitehall. The new carbon plan sets out heat over the coming decade, shifting the industry from what must happen and by what date if the Government the fringes to the mainstream. In the next day or two, are to live up to our green ambitions, by meeting our we hope to publish measures to support renewable heat, tough domestic carbon targets and encouraging greater within the budget agreed at the spending review. action internationally. The plan is focused on the jobs Finally, on my hon. Friend’s points, I was particularly and economic opportunities of the low-carbon economy, interested to hear him talk about Chale. The scheme and on policies that will help to insulate Britain from there is remarkable and, with the support of organisations future energy price shocks. It precisely addresses the such as the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, it appears to points that my hon. Friend has outlined about the be bringing an entire off-grid rural community out of impressive eco-island scheme. fuel poverty with an integrated approach to reducing carbon. That is really impressive. Additional funding is The carbon plan is published in draft today, with the provided by the social landlord, to ensure that the Government inviting the public and organisations to properties are upgraded to the decent homes standard, give their views on its contents. A final version will be and the Ellen MacArthur Foundation supports the published in the autumn. I hope that the people involved project management and behaviour change elements of in the eco-island project on the Isle of Wight will have a the scheme. The entire village will benefit from the chance to see the plan. We can learn from what they are social improvements, and a number of photovoltaic already doing. installations throughout the estate will feed a community- My hon. Friend talked about green jobs. We must managed funding initiative to ensure that the project recognise the importance of that issue. We know that it continues to support improvements in the village for has been a huge issue on the Isle of Wight and received years to come. I commend the people involved on their considerable publicity not long ago. It is great to see enlightened approach, from which we can all learn for that there is a determination among those who are in our constituencies elsewhere around the country. business or in local government on the island to try to The cross-Government adapting to climate change ensure that the island becomes a hub of green-growth programme, based in the Department for Environment, jobs, and they are being led by my hon. Friend. Food and Rural Affairs, supports local authorities in At least 1,000 green deal apprentices could receive preparing adaptation strategies, including through the Government funding towards their training, which might nine English climate change partnerships, the UK climate be an opportunity for the Isle of Wight. The apprentice impacts programme and work undertaken with the scheme is part of our plans to reduce carbon emissions Local Government Group. The adapting to climate and to insulate the UK’s homes and businesses against change programme is also undertaking the UK’s first rising energy prices. That is an important announcement climate change risk assessment, which is due to report that might be of interest to people on the Isle of Wight. in January 2012, and which will inform the development of the Government’s first statutory national programme Regarding green skills, my colleagues in DECC continue of action to prepare the country for climate change. to work with the sector skills councils and the National Local authorities will need to play a key role in delivering Apprenticeship Service to ensure that the provision of on that important agenda, and it seems that the Isle of skills matches demand. NAS and the Engineering Wight is way ahead of the curve. Construction Industry Training Board are working together The Localism Bill will radically reform the planning to increase the number of apprentices within the system to give local people new rights to shape the engineering-construction sector, to meet the future demand development of the communities in which they live, that will be created by major energy projects. There is including through neighbourhood plans. During this great potential for synergy between the eco-island strategy year, the Government will consult on a national planning and what we are doing in government. policy framework, which will set out in a single, concise The opportunities offered by a move to a low-carbon document our broad economic, environmental and social economy are huge. In 2008-09, the global market for priorities, and how those priorities relate to each other. low-carbon goods and services was worth £3.2 trillion We are seeking, therefore, to do at a national level much and it is forecast to grow by about 4% in the next five of what the Isle of Wight is doing locally. The reforms years. There are major opportunities for businesses to will ensure that the majority of planning decisions are use energy more efficiently. They could potentially save made at the local level, with the minimum of interference £3.3 billion per annum on energy bills through cost-effective from Whitehall, empowering local authorities to achieve measures. It has been interesting to hear how businesses sustainable growth alongside environmental improvements on the Isle of Wight are embracing some of the technologies and an improved quality of life for communities. The that promote energy efficiency. The market size of the vision that my hon. Friend has described is precisely UK low-carbon environmental goods and services sector that which we seek to encourage, and I hope that the rose to £112 billion in 2008-09, which represented an people involved will feel appreciated and valued for increase of 4.3% on revised figures for the previous what they have done thus far, and for what they will do year. The sector is the largest in the world. in the future. 213WH Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight)8 MARCH 2011 Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) 214WH

We are also taking sustainable travel seriously. In to expand local food networks and identify key brands. January, the Department for Transport announced the Despite the evidence not being conclusive, we all know introduction of a new local sustainable transport fund, that local food is better for the environment. When providing £560 million for sustainable travel schemes. production, processing and distribution systems are The January 2011 White Paper “Creating Growth, Cutting similar, choosing produce that has travelled a shorter Carbon: Making Sustainable Local Transport Happen” distance can result in lower transport emissions. That sets out the importance of sustainable transport systems must be one of the most obvious comments ever made such as those in the eco-island strategy. The benefits in the House, but the opportunity for communities such from improved public transport and from encouraging as the Isle of Wight to benefit from such a strategy are modal shift away from car use to walking and cycling enormous. are clear, and these types of schemes often offer the best Finally, I shall mention the natural environment White value for money.The Government understand the problems Paper, which is a major piece of work being carried out that councils have in maintaining their road network, by DEFRA, offering both large and small communities and in February the Department for Transport announced, a vision of how we want to manage our natural following the recent severe weather, that extra funding environment, and how we value it and will continue to of more than £100 million would be given to councils value it in future. I commend that important work, for the repair of potholes. which will be published in a few weeks’ time. The coalition also believes in work towards a zero-waste I have spoken about several issues, which are linked economy, and my hon. Friend touched on that. To by the fact that they all highlight the importance of ensure that we have the right policies to achieve that sustainable development. Sustainable development covers aim, the Government are conducting a thorough review everything we do, and is reflected in our recognition of all aspects of waste policy and delivery in England, that decisions should not be taken in isolation. I look and the preliminary findings will be published in May forward to hearing more about the progress on the 2011. eco-island strategy. I commend the people involved in We recognise the benefits that the marketing of regional it, and I commend my hon. Friend both for raising the and local food can bring to producers and consumers topic in the House and for his leadership in the area. alike. Shoppers increasingly want to know how the food they buy has been produced, and what its provenance is, Question put and agreed to. and the established tourism industry in the Isle of Wight is ideally suited—I cannot think of anywhere 1.57 pm better—to benefit from this Government’s determination Sitting adjourned.

57WS Written Ministerial Statements8 MARCH 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 58WS

The implementation of the recommendations of the high-level Written Ministerial group on the competitiveness of the European chemical industry. Statements The Government’s main aims will be: To emphasise the UK’s priorities for the Single Market Act; To agree Council conclusions on the services directive mutual Tuesday 8 March 2011 evaluation process and on the Commission’s raw materials initiative; To support further progress on the EU patent; To highlight the UK’s priorities for achieving EU growth BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS (from both industry and research perspectives) in response to the Commission’s annual growth survey; To agree Council conclusions on the seventh research framework programme interim evaluation and on the pilot innovation EU Competitiveness Council partnership on active and healthy ageing.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): My noble ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Baroness Wilcox, has today made the following statement: Cattle Movements The EU Competitiveness Council will take place in Brussels on 9 and 10 March 2011. Andy Lebrecht, the UK’s Deputy Permanent Representative to the EU will represent the UK on research issues The Minister of State, Department for Environment, on 9 March and I shall represent the UK on internal market and Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): I wish to industry issues on 10 March. inform the House that following a Government investigation The research substantive agenda items on 9 March will be a into whether any illegal trade in older cattle has occurred, Commission presentation and exchange of views on the Europe new movement restrictions will be placed on cattle born 2020 strategy annual growth survey; adoption of Council conclusions or reared in the UK before 1 August 1996. This is an on the interim evaluation of the seventh research framework programme including the risk-sharing finance facility; an update extra precaution against meat from these older cattle on the European innovation union flagship initiative; and adoption entering the food chain. of Council conclusions on a pilot innovation partnership on DEFRA has written to the 18,000 keepers with animals active and healthy ageing. There will also be a lunchtime discussion of this age to inform them that in future individual on the European Commission’s common strategic framework for licences must be obtained before the cattle can be moved. research and innovation funding Green Paper. Controls to prevent these animals from entering the The research any other business items are: a report from the Belgian delegation and the Commission on the conference “The food chain are already strong. It is illegal to slaughter knowledge-based bio-economy towards 2020” and a Commission pre-1996 animals for food, and specified risk material presentation on the Council decision concerning the framework (SRM) such as brain and spinal cord is removed from programme of the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) all cattle after slaughter. In addition, any cattle aged for nuclear research and training activities (2012 to 2013). over 48 months are tested for BSE after slaughter and The internal market and industry substantive agenda items on only those that test negative are allowed into the food 10 March will be a Commission update and exchange of views on chain. the results of the public consultation on the Single Market Act; The industry has worked hard over the years to adoption of Council conclusions on the Commission communication “Towards a better functioning single market for services—building ensure British beef regained the good reputation it on the results of the mutual evaluation process of the services deserves, both at home and abroad. This extra safeguard directive”; adoption of the proposed Council decision authorising will help maintain this reputation. enhanced co-operation in the area of the creation of unitary patent protection; a Commission presentation and exchange of views (industry perspective) on the Europe 2020 strategy annual Environment Council growth survey; and adoption of Council conclusions on the raw materials initiative. There will also be an Industry Ministers lunchtime discussion on the Commission’s mid-term review of the Small Business Act. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and The internal market and industry any other business items will Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): My right hon. comprise Commission presentations and updates on the following: Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change and I will represent the UK at the Environment The internal market information system (IMI); Council in Brussels in 14 March. The SOLVIT annual report; At this Council, the Hungarian presidency is expected The European Court of Justice opinion on a draft treaty for to seek political agreement on the proposal for a recast the creation of a single court for patent related disputes; of the directive on waste electrical and electronic equipment The fifth consumer scoreboard; (WEEE). The public consultation: towards coherent European approach The presidency will also seek the adoption of Council to collective redress; conclusions on the follow-up to the 16th conference of The public consultation on alternative dispute resolution; the parties to the UN framework convention on climate The Commission communication on reaping the benefits of change in Cancun and on the review of the community electronic invoicing for Europe; strategy concerning mercury. 59WS Written Ministerial Statements8 MARCH 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 60WS

There will be an exchange of views on the latest The review began its work on 1 October last year. analysis of the proposal for a regulation regarding the The terms of reference asked the review to make possibility for member states to restrict or prohibit the recommendations that enable the police service to manage cultivation of GMOs in their territory. A further exchange its resources to serve the public more cost-effectively, of views will be held on the common agricultural policy taking account of the fiscal challenges. In particular towards 2020 and on the Environment Council’s they invited the review to focus on proposals that: contribution to the EU semester. Use remuneration and conditions of service to maximise The following topics will be covered under “any other officer and staff deployment to front-line roles where their business”: powers and skills are required; Presentation by the Commission on the low-carbon economy Provide remuneration and conditions of service that are fair roadmap 2050; to and reasonable for both the public taxpayer and police officers and staff; Information from the Danish delegation on endocrine disrupters; Enable modern management practices in line with practices Information from the Commission on a communication on elsewhere in the public sector and the wider economy. “Regional policy contributing to sustainable growth in Europe 2020”; And to have regard to: Information from the Commission on the state of the ETS The tough economic conditions and unprecedented public registry; and sector deficit, and the consequent Government’s spending review; Information from the Austrian delegation on measures The resolution by the Government that the public sector concerning the use of plastic carrier bags. must share the burden of the deficit; The Government’s policy on pay and pensions; Analysis of the value of current remuneration and conditions HOME DEPARTMENT of service for police officers and staff, as compared to other workforces; A strong desire from the public to see more police officers Ending Violence Against Women and Girls and operational staff out on the front-line of local policing; A recognition that there are also less visible front-line roles that require policing powers and skills in order to protect the The Secretary of State for the Home Department public; (Mrs Theresa May): Ending violence against women The particular front-line role and nature of the office of and girls is a priority for this Government. On 25 November constable in British policing, including the lack of a right to 2010, I set out our guiding principles in this area over strike; the spending review period in a “Call to End Violence Parallel work by the police service to improve value for Against Women and Girls” and announced that we will money; be committing Home Office funding of £28 million to Wider Government objectives for police reform, including the introduction of police and crime commissioners, the fund specialist services in this area over the next four reduction of police bureaucracy and collaboration between years. police forces and with other public services; Today, to mark International Women’s Day, I am Other relevant developments including the Independent Public publishing a set of supporting actions to realise our Service Pensions Commission led by Lord Hutton, the Hutton ambition in this area. This includes a full response to review of Fair Pay in the Public Sector led by Will Hutton, Baroness Stern’s review into how rape cases are handled any emerging recommendations from them, and the in England and Wales. Government’s commitment to protect accrued pension rights; The impact of any recommendations on equality and diversity. Copies of both documents will be placed in the House Library. The review was asked to report in two stages, the first covering short-term improvements. Tom Winsor has now provided this first report and has been supported Police Remuneration and Conditions of Service in this work by former chief constable Sir Edward Crew and labour market economist Professor Richard Disney. I am very grateful for their work on this review and The Secretary of State for the Home Department for this report. I will now consider the report very (Mrs Theresa May): Tom Winsor has today published carefully. The report has been laid before Parliament the first report of his review of remuneration and today and copies are available from the Vote Office. It is conditions of service for police officers and staff in also available electronically to the service and the public England and Wales. on the review’s website at: http://review.police.uk/. 909W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 910W

Mrs Gillan: The Wales Office’s traditional St David’s Written Answers to Day reception has long been used to celebrate our national day and to bring together representatives of Questions Welsh society to build relationships that will potentially bring great benefits to Wales. Representatives of key employers and the big society were invited, along with Tuesday 8 March 2011 Members of Parliament and peers of all the main political parties. The estimated cost to the public purse from the event is £780, excluding VAT. The following hon. Members were invited: WALES Glyn Davies MP Departmental Billing Brooks Newmark MP Guto Bebb MP Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Alun Cairns MP Wales what proportion of invoices from suppliers her Stephen Crabb MP Department paid within 10 days of receipt in January David Davies MP [45098] and February 2011. Jonathan Evans MP Mr David Jones: In January and February 2011 100% of Simon Hart MP invoices paid by the Wales Office were paid within 10 Roger Williams MP days. Mark Williams MP Jenny Willott MP Departmental Expenditure Peter Hain MP Owen Smith MP Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Elfyn Llwyd MP Wales what expenditure her Department incurred on Mark Prisk MP engaging external audit services in each of the last three years; and to which service providers such Vince Cable MP payments were made in each year. [43764] Electoral Reform Services Ltd

Mr David Jones: In the last three years the Wales Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Office has only made one payment to external auditors. Wales what the monetary value was of contracts her In the financial year 2009-10 a payment of £16,500 was Department placed with Electoral Reform Services Ltd made for services provided by the National Audit Office. in each year since 2005. [44227] Departmental Food Mr David Jones: The Wales Office has not placed any contracts with Electoral Reform Services. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if she will estimate the proportion of the seafood procured for her Department that (a) wasonthe Marine Conservation Society’s list of fish to avoid and ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS (b) complied with sustainability standards indicated by inclusion in either the Marine Conservation Society’s Agriculture: Public Expenditure list of fish to eat or by the list of fish species certified by the Marine Stewardship Council in (i) 2010 and (ii) Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 to date. [44952] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the Mr David Jones: The Wales Office has no in-house Exchequer on levels of funding for agricultural catering facilities and does not source food. research and development during the comprehensive spending review period. [43695] Departmental Manpower Mr Paice: The Secretary of State for Environment, Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Food and Rural Affairs has held no recent discussions Wales how many staff in her Department were in the with the Chancellor of the Exchequer specifically on civil service redeployment pool on the latest date for levels of funding for agricultural research and development which figures are available; and how many of these had during the comprehensive spending review period. However, been in the redeployment pool for more than six DEFRA officials continue to work closely with HM months at that date. [44360] Treasury and other Government Departments on Government support for research and development in Mr David Jones: None. this and other sectors. Departmental Official Hospitality Agriculture: Subsidies

Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Wales which hon. Members of each political party State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what were invited to the Secretary of State’s St David’s Day plans she has for the future of the compulsory set aside reception at Gwydyr house on 1 March 2011. [45168] scheme; and if she will make a statement. [43555] 911W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 912W

Mr Paice: Compulsory set-aside (the obligation for oversight, leading by example, embedding sustainable farmers to take a percentage of agricultural land out of development into policy, and transparent and independent production) was abolished in 2008. The Campaign for scrutiny. It can be viewed online at: the Farmed Environment was launched in 2009 as an http://sd.defra.gov.uk/documents/mainstreaming-sustainable- alternative to regulation, allowing farmers to voluntarily development.pdf implement changes in farming practice that will recapture The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and the environmental benefits formerly provided by set-aside Rural Affairs will sit on the key domestic policy Cabinet land. It is due to run until July 2012. committees, including the Economic Affairs Committee, The Campaign is led by the farming industry and is to promote the Government’s commitment to sustainability its chance to demonstrate that it can deliver better across policy making. environmental outcomes for farmland birds, other farm We will measure and report our progress through a wildlife, soil and water at a local level without the need new set of indicators on sustainable development, building for additional regulation. I want the Campaign to be a on past experience of sustainable development and success and do not believe that Government should wellbeing measures and linking with developing national need to regulate and impose more red tape; if the and international initiatives, including plans announced farming community can achieve the same results through in November 2010 to measure the nation’s wellbeing. its own actions. But if the farming community cannot The Environmental Audit Committee will play a role step up and achieve these results voluntarily, the. in holding the Government to account with a renewed Government will have to consider a compulsory approach commitment to scrutinise the appraisal of the Government’s to deliver the same level of environmental benefits. policies and our new overall approach. Fishing Catches: EU Action A Ministerial Steering Group will oversee delivery of the new Commitments for greening Government’s Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Operations and Procurement. All Departments will need Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she to submit plans for delivering these commitments to the plans to take on fish discards and by-catch following Cabinet Office, which will co-ordinate performance the EU high level meeting of 1 March 2011 on management of pan-government delivery and publish fisheries; and if she will make a statement. [44718] regular updates on progress to ensure we can be held to account by the public. Richard Benyon [holding answer 7 March 2011]: I have made clear that tackling discards must be a priority Noise: Nuisance for common fisheries policy (CFP) reform, and I am delighted that at the high level meeting on discards the Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for EU Commission, and other members states, were able Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent to agree on this too. At the event, the UK, Germany, representations she has received on noise nuisance France and Denmark also took the step of signing a issues. [43791] declaration calling for serious reform of the CFP, making the reduction of discards a high priority, while securing Richard Benyon: A number of representations have improved management of fish stocks and the prosperity been received recently regarding noise nuisance. Specifically, of our fishing industry. in December and January DEFRA received 19 and 12 The UK is committed to tackling discards, and will letters respectively from members of the public and use the momentum created by the event and the declaration external organisations on noise nuisance with subject to continue to influence and shape reform—in doing so matters ranging from noise from gas guns to low frequency we will use the crucial evidence gathered from the UK’s ‘hum’. A small number of parliamentary questions on discard reduction work to make sure that the right this issue have also been received. solutions are taken forward. The UK is clear, however, that it will not just wait for Rural Payments Agency: Operating Costs the reform of common fisheries policy; discard reductions must be delivered now. We have already made excellent Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for progress with initiatives such as project 50%, which saw Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to which uses the discards in the south west sole fishery reduced by 52%. Rural Payments Agency has put the funding allocated In 2011, we are expanding our catch quota scheme to to it by her Department to assist with running costs in more vessels and species, as well as working to encourage 2010-11. [43462] consumption of underutilized species that are presently discarded. Mr Paice [holding answer 8 March 2011]: The Rural Payments Agency is a major delivery body for the Government Departments: Sustainable Development Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), providing a range of services in support of Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for DEFRA’s objectives of encouraging a thriving farming Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans and food sector and strong rural communities. The to publish the ministerial governance arrangements to Agency manages a wide range of common agricultural oversee the Government’s performance on sustainable policy (CAP) schemes including the single payment development. [43306] scheme, internal market schemes covering dairy products, crops, fruits and vegetables, external trade measures Mr Paice: On 28 February 2011, Government published covering export refunds, import and export licenses and their vision for mainstreaming sustainable development milk quotas. The agency also carries out a wide range of which consists of providing ministerial leadership and inspections on farms and at abattoirs, factories, ports, 913W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 914W airports and markets to ensure CAP scheme rules are considered for redundancy unless they have applied for met and that claims for payment are valid. The agency voluntary redundancy. The sift to remove the individuals is also responsible for monitoring cattle movements who fall into these categories will not be completed throughout the UK. until mid-August. No estimate has been made of the number of RAF Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for personnel who will volunteer for redundancy as part of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much of the RAF redundancy programme as this will depend on her Department’s EU dairy fund has been paid out (a) the personal choices made by the individuals concerned. by the Rural Payments Agency and (b) through each of the devolved Administrations to date. [43463] Armed Forces: Redundancy Mr Paice [holding answer 2 March 2011]: The Rural Payments Agency (RPA) paid out £26,563,99.65 to Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for 15,689 eligible dairy producers across the United Kingdom Defence what assessment he has made of the likely from the EU dairy fund. All eligible producers have effect on military operations in Afghanistan of the been paid. redundancies from the armed forces announced on 1 March 2011. [44424] In agreement with the devolved Administrations, RPA made all the payments. £2,571,941.28 was paid to producers Nick Harvey: The reduction in the size of the armed in Scotland, £2,980,000.97 to producers in Wales and forces was first announced following the Strategic Defence £3,686,613.89 to producers in Northern Ireland. and Security Review and the Prime Minister has made Towards a Green Economy it clear that there is no cut whatsoever in the support for our forces in Afghanistan. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Furthermore, when announcing the need for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent redundancies, the Secretary of State for Defence made discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the it clear that no one who is preparing to deploy, deployed Exchequer on the Government’s policy on the and in receipt of operational allowance or who has recommendations of the UN Environment Programme recently returned from an operational deployment will report, Towards a Green Economy. [43693] be made redundant unless they have volunteered, Mr Paice: DEFRA Ministers have had no discussions Afghanistan remains our top foreign policy priority to date with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the and the Ministry of Defence’s main effort and we will recommendations issued last week. continue to ensure that the campaign is properly resourced. Blue Force

DEFENCE Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what (a) financial and (b) other assistance Air Force: Military Bases was provided by his Department to (i) Blue Force Property and (ii) Blue Force Services in each of the last Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for five years. [41684] Defence when he next intends to visit the RAF base at (a) Lossiemouth, (b) Kinloss and (c) Leuchars. Mr Robathan: We have not provided any financial [44127] assistance to any Blue Force organisation. Office Dr Fox: I intend to visit the region shortly but no accommodation at Colchester and access to a military specific date or programme has yet been agreed. telephone network were provided in the past and charges levied at the appropriate rates. Air Force: Redundancy Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department is owed by (a) Defence (1) how many Royal Air Force personnel not Blue Force Property and (b) Blue Force Services. deployed on operations, recently returned from [41685] operations and preparing to deploy on operations are in the pool of personnel considered for the Mr Robathan: Nothing. All monies for rental of redundancies announced on 1 March 2011; [44423] office accommodation have been paid. (2) what estimate he has made of the number of Royal Air Force personnel who will volunteer for Chinook Helicopters redundancy as part of the programme of reductions announced on 1 March 2011. [44426] Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will place in the Library a copy of the Boeing full Nick Harvey: The information requested is not available hazard analysis of the flying controls and associated at this time. systems that was carried out with reference to Some 4,350 service personnel will be eligible for paragraph 9 of the Ministry of Defence Military redundancy in tranche one of the RAF redundancy Aircraft Accident Summary 2/89-Aircraft Accident to programme. Personnel within this group who are engaged Royal Air Force Chinook HC1 ZA721. [38549] in combat operations for which they are in receipt of operational allowance, within six months of deploying Nick Harvey: I will write to the hon. Member. Time is on those operations, or recovering from operations on required to retrieve information on the 1987 accident the day the redundancy notices are issued, will not be from archive. 915W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 916W

Substantive answer from Nick Harvey to James Gray: Ex-servicemen: Social Security Benefits I undertook to write to you in response to the answer I gave to your written parliamentary question on 9 February 2011 (Official Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Report, column 252W) regarding the Boeing full hazard analysis. what steps he is taking with the Secretary of State for We are still waiting for Boeing to provide the information you Work and Pensions to ensure the take-up of benefits by requested. You may however wish to be aware that some of the former service personnel. [38981] information may be covered by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) which may limit its release. This will not be Mr Robathan: All former service personnel who are fully clear until the information is received and assessed. in need can access the Veterans Welfare Service who have visibility of the Department of Work and Pensions’ Critical Capabilities Pool database and can advise on obtaining any further benefits. Welfare managers are able to assist in the application Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for process if potential claimants are unable to do so. Defence what the (a) purpose and (b) remit of the Military Aircraft Critical Capabilities Pool is. [43968] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: I have been asked to reply. Defence (1) which types of Royal Air Force aircraft are The purpose of the Critical Capabilities Pool is to authorised to carry special nuclear materials over UK fund some of the key programmes and capabilities territory; and which section in his Department is required to reduce proliferation-related risks to national responsible for granting such authority; [44632] security and to improve co-ordination of those resources (2) which types of Royal Air Force aircraft are across the Government’s counter-proliferation community. authorised to carry special nuclear materials over US The Critical Capabilities Pool includes several programmatic territory by the US administration; and from which elements and also contains resources for security-related department of the US administration he received such science and technology work in the radiological and authority. [44633] nuclear, and chemical and biological fields. Nick Harvey: The following aircraft can carry special Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for nuclear materials (SNM): CI7, VC10,Tristar and C130. Defence what the monetary value is of the Critical Individual aircraft do not require a specific authorisation Capabilities Pool introduced in the Strategic Defence to carry SNM, but, as with all requests for the use of air and Security Review; and which departments have transport, aircraft are allocated according to the size contributed to it. [43969] and nature of the load and in response to a bid from the sponsor. Alistair Burt: I have been asked to reply. The Transport Operation Order details the itinerary, Work to finalise the exact level of resources included role, fit of the aircraft, load, handling requirements and within the Critical Capabilities Pool is still ongoing. I specific arrangements for that task. As part of this will write to inform you of the final figure once it is process, diplomatic clearances are arranged in conjunction available. The following Departments are contributing with those nations detailed in the itinerary, or being funding: the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the overflown. The internal clearance process for each nation Department for Energy and Climate Change, HM Treasury, to approve the flight itinerary is a matter for them. the Ministry of Defence and the Home Department. RAF Valley European Fighter Aircraft Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many civilian staff are located at RAF Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Valley; and in what capacity. [44887] Defence pursuant to the answer of 31 January 2011, Official Report, column 515W, on defence: Nick Harvey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I procurement, when he plans to place in the Library a gave on 7 March 2011, Official Report, column 813W. copy of the project history maintained in respect of the Typhoon project. [45175] Sea Rescue

Peter Luff: It is my intention to place a copy of the Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Typhoon project history in the Library of the House Defence (1) how many (a) RAF and (b) Royal Navy before the Easter recess. pilots are assigned to search and rescue duties, excluding those assigned for training purposes; and Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if from which bases such pilots operate; [44885] he will publish the information his Department holds (2) which helicopters are deployed to carry out on the increase in costs (a) of the Eurofighter typhoon search and rescue tasks in the UK; and from which project and (b) for each such aircraft delivered since bases such helicopters operate. [44886] 1988; and if he will make a statement. [44780] Nick Harvey: The RAF provide search and rescue Peter Luff: Information about the increase in cost of (SAR) capability from six UK bases using the Sea King Typhoon is published within the Major Projects Report Mk3/3a helicopters: RAF Valley, Wattisham airfield, 2010, HC 489-11 dated 15 October 2010. Typhoon has Defence School of Transport (DST) Leconfield, RAF been contracted for in three tranches. Increase in cost is Lossiemouth, RAF Boulmer and Royal Marines Base not recorded on a per aircraft basis. (RMB) Chivenor. The Royal Navy provide SAR cover 917W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 918W from Gannet SAR Flight (Glasgow Prestwick International TRANSPORT airport) and Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose using the Sea King HU Mk5 helicopter. The Maritime and Aviation: Security Coastguard Agency provides SAR capability from bases at Stornoway, Sumburgh, Portland and Lee-on-Solent, Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for using AgustaWestland AW139and Sikorsky S92 helicopters. Transport whether he has plans to bring forward The number of RAF and Royal Navy pilots assigned proposals to enable airports to determine their own to SAR duties and the bases from which they operate security procedures for air crew. [42061] are shown in the following table. Mrs Villiers: I refer the hon. Member to my answer Service Base Number of pilots of 16 February 2011, Official Report, column 773W, RAF UK 171 given to the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Royal Navy UK 20 Lloyd). 1 RAF pilots are also stationed in Cyprus and on detachment to the Falkland Islands. Departmental Public Expenditure Submarines and Warships Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what savings he expects to accrue to his Defence (1) how many submarines are currently Department from its internal restructuring programme available for operations; [44689] over the lifetime of the programme. [42313] (2) what the (a) name and (b) type is of each (i) destroyer and (ii) frigate in service with the Royal Navy Mr Philip Hammond: The central Department and its and available for operations. [44739] agencies will deliver our spending review commitment to reduce our administration costs by 33% in real terms Nick Harvey [holding answer 4 March 2011]: The by 2014-15 which will represent a cumulative cost saving surface ships in service with the Royal Navy currently of around £270 million over the period to and including available for operations are as follows: 2014-15. Frigates Of this, approximately £180 million is expected will Type 22: be delivered from the central Department. HMS Campbeltown HMS Cornwall Driving Offences: Insurance HMS Cumberland Destroyers Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent meetings he has had with the Type 23: Motor Insurance Bureau on the number of uninsured HMS St Albans drivers. [43505] HMS Westminster HMS Richmond Mike Penning: The Secretary of State for Transport HMS Iron Duke has not had any meetings with the Motor Insurers’ HMS Montrose Bureau (MIB). Motor insurance is one of my HMS Monmouth responsibilities. I have met with the MIB and have HMS Sutherland visited their headquarters in Milton Keynes. HMS Somerset Driving Standards Agency HMS Portland Type 42: Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for HMS Gloucester Transport what proportion of the work carried out by HMS Liverpool the Driving Standards Agency was undertaken by the HMS York offices in (a) Newcastle, (b) Nottingham and (c) Type 45: Cardiff in the latest period for which figures are HMS Daring. available; and if he will make a statement. [43124] Two types of submarines make up the Royal Navy Submarine Service. There are six fleet submarines, of Mike Penning: The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) which four are operational. There are four ballistic cannot accurately proportion the total of work carried missile submarines, of which three are operational. out between its administrative offices in Newcastle, HMS Astute has joined the Royal Navy’s submarine Nottingham and Cardiff. Some of the functions at each fleet, but is not yet fully operational, so is not included site are different and not comparable. in these figures. The number of staff based in each office at 1 January While the units identified will be at various states of 2011 was: readiness, while engaging in various forms of activity Newcastle—170 to 180 such as sea trials, training, ammunitioning, storing etc., Nottingham—350 to 360 they remain in fleet time and are therefore considered Cardiff—86 (plus one member of staff on career break) operational. Figures for Newcastle and Nottingham are Those units not currently part of the operational approximations owing to the fact that some staff are schedule are undergoing deep maintenance. based between the two offices. 919W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 920W

Heathrow Airtrack Mr Philip Hammond: No companies are, at this stage, involved in the construction or operation of HS2. I have Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Secretary of State for had discussions with large numbers of companies from Transport what plans he has for the future of the all sectors, as well as business representative organisations, Heathrow Airtrack; and what timetable he has set for about HS2. its implementation. [43280] Roads: Safety Mrs Villiers [holding answer 7 March 2011]: The Heathrow Airtrack project is being promoted by Heathrow Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Airport Ltd—a subsidiary of BAA. Accordingly, plans Transport whether he has assessed the merits of setting for the future of the project and timescales for targets for the reduction of child road deaths and implementation are a matter for BAA. serious injuries in the forthcoming road safety strategic framework. [43288] London and Southeastern Railway: Passengers Mike Penning: The UK already has some of the Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for safest roads in the world, but the coalition is considering Transport what the rate of cancellation of passenger how to make them even safer for all road users. The new rail services operated by the Southeastern franchise strategic framework for road safety will set out the was in each of the last five reporting periods. [43456] Government’s vision for road safety, national measures, and how we will work with others to achieve this. We Mrs Villiers [holding answer 2 March 2011]: The have been discussing this with stakeholders and we information requested is given in the following table: intend to publish in the near future. Southeastern cancellations Southeastern Reporting period Percentage cancelled

August/September 2010 0.9 Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for September/October 2010 1.6 Transport how many new carriages, excluding carriages October/November 2010 0.6 for services on High Speed 1, have been brought into November/December 2010 2.3 service on the Integrated Kent Franchise in each year December/January 2011 2.6 since the franchise was awarded to Southeastern. Note: [38288] Period 10 2010-11 (12 December 2010 to 9 January 2011) is the latest data available. Rail industry periods are four weeks in length. Mrs Villiers: There have been no additional carriages Pedestrian Crossings introduced in any year under the current Integrated Kent Franchise, other than those introduced to deliver Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for the high speed services. However, since March 2009, Transport what information his Department holds on some Southeastern services have been operated using the relative safety records of (a) pelican, (b) puffin, First Capital Connect rolling stock, which enabled (c) toucan and (d) other forms of signal-controlled Southeastern to redeploy up to 48 vehicles to lengthen pedestrian crossings. [43668] other trains. Norman Baker: A recent study, conducted by the Prior to the start of the Integrated Kent Franchise in Transport Research Laboratory on a limited number of April 2006, more than £600 million was invested in new sites, indicated that personal injury accident frequencies rolling stock in Kent (57 four-car class 375 and 36 five-car at puffin crossings could be some 17% lower than at class 376 Electrostar trains). pelican crossings. We intend to publish the results of the Taxis: Road Traffic Offences study later this year. No other comparative studies have been carried out in recent years. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Railways: Construction Transport for what reason the owners of private hire vehicles are able to transfer liability for parking control Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for notices (PCNs) to the driver at the time of offence but Transport if he will estimate the annual cost to the are not able to do so in respect of PCNs issued for bus public purse of maintenance of the High Speed Two lane violation. [41565] route after completion. [43441] Norman Baker: Regulations made by the Government Mr Philip Hammond: Estimates of the costs of operating for parking enforcement in England (including London) and maintaining both the proposed Y high speed rail under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and for bus network, and the proposed initial London-West Midlands lanes enforcement in England outside London under HS2 line, are included in the “Economic Case for HS2” the Transport Act 2000, enable the keeper of a vehicle which is available on the consultation website: that was, at the material time, hired from a vehicle hire http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk company under a hiring agreement, to pass responsibility for the payment of any penalty charge notice (PCN) Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for incurred to the hirer. Transport which companies are involved in the (a) The legislation that was sponsored by London local construction and (b) operation of High Speed Two; authorities to enable enforcement of bus lanes in London— and with which companies he has had discussions on the London Local Authorities Act 1996—does not provide High Speed Two. [43589] an equivalent power to the vehicle keeper. The Mayor of 921W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 922W

London, along with the London local authorities, has authority major schemes in the (a) supported, (b) policy responsibility for this locally-sponsored legislation. development and (c) pre-qualification group are (i) I have drawn this exchange to the attention of the revised and (ii) assessed; [24053] Mayor. (4) what his most recent estimate is of (a) the Transport: Finance monetary value of (i) central Government, (ii) local authority, (iii) private finance initiative and (iv) developer contributions and (b) total scheme Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for construction cost in respect of each major scheme in Transport (1) what capital allocations he expects to the (A) supported, (B) development and (C) pre- make in respect of each local authority scheme in the qualification groups. [24054] supported group in each of the next four years; and what estimate he has made of the proportion of the Norman Baker [holding answer 12 November 2011]: cost of each such scheme expected to be met by central The agreed Department for Transport contribution to Government contributions; [24051] the supported pool schemes, following the announcement (2) what criteria he plans to use to determine which made on 4 February 2011, is shown in the following local authority major schemes from the development table along with the expected allocation of spend over group will be funded by central Government; [24052] each of the next four years, the total cost of each (3) what mechanisms will be in place for local scheme, and the proportion of this to be provided by residents to contribute to the process by which local Department for Transport.

DFT contribution (£ million) Proportion of Total cost (£ funding from Scheme 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 Total million) DFT (%)

Thornton to Switch Island Link (Sefton) — 7.0 7.5 — 14.5 18.6 78 Taunton Northern Inner Distributor Road — 8.0 6.1 1.0 15.2 21.7 70 Heysham to M6 Link Road — 27.4 45.9 37.1 110.9 123.3 90 Leeds Station Southern Access — 1.9 10.5 — 12.4 14.4 86 East of Exeter 8.8 1.6 — — 10.4 14.4 72 A57 M1 to Todwick Crossroads (Rotherham) — 8.3 3.5 — 11.8 14.7 80 Mansfield Public Transport Interchange 0.7 5.8 0.7 — 7.2 8.9 81 Ipswich Fit for the 21st Century — 9.3 8.9 0.1 18.3 21.5 85 Midland Metro — 26.5 48.9 0.0 75.4 129.2 58

The expected spend on the Heysham to M6 Link authority promoters also have a responsibility to consult Road scheme also includes £0.5 million after 2014-15. residents and stakeholders when developing individual The remaining scheme in the supported pool, Mersey scheme proposals at appropriate stages. The public also Gateway Bridge, is not included in this table as the have an opportunity to make representations whenever funding package for the scheme, including toll revenues planning permission, scheme orders or compulsory and private finance is being reviewed with the promoter. purchase orders are applied for. No other scheme in the supported or development pool The best estimates of the total construction cost and is currently proposed to be taken forward under the the central Government, local authority, and third party private finance initiative. contributions in respect of each major scheme in the The criteria to be used in the prioritisation process development pool, including those promoted from the for schemes in the development pool will be made on a pre-qualification pool, are as set out in the Expressions basis that is consistent with Government’s proposals to of Interest received from the local authority promoters reform the way decisions are made on which transport in December 2010 and January 2011. These are available projects to prioritise. We will refine the precise methodology on the DFT website at: to be used but is likely to include the following criteria, http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/ltp/major/ as stated in the document ‘Investment on Local Major transportschemesupdate/ Transport Schemes: Update’: The Department is challenging local authorities to submit revised bids for development pool schemes by Value for money; September 2011 that further reduce the call on central The proportion of overall funding coming from non-Department Government funds. for Transport sources; Deliverability; Strategic importance; ATTORNEY-GENERAL A consideration of modal and regional balance across the programme. Crown Prosecution Service We have published the Expressions of Interest already received from the local authority promoters and we Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Attorney-General welcome comments from any interested parties including in respect of which offences are cases being returned by local residents. We will also publish the Best and Final the Crown Prosecution Service to the police for Funding Bids once they are received on 9 September charging as part of revised charging arrangements and will similarly invite comments on those. The local being rolled-out for completion by June 2011. [44615] 923W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 924W

The Attorney-General: The Director’s Guidance on Mr Vaizey: The information requested was not recorded Charging is issued by the Director of Public Prosecutions centrally by Arts Council England (ACE) prior to January (DPP) under section 37A of the Police and Criminal 2010. Staff booked travel with many different suppliers Evidence Act 1984. It sets out the arrangements for the and have no way of reporting the class of individual joint working of police officers and prosecutors during journeys taken. However, ACE now has a designated the investigation and prosecution of criminal cases. The travel supplier, who centralises and records all their 4th edition (revised arrangements) of the guidance was travel. During the period January 2010 to February issued on 21 January 2011 and is being implemented on 2011, ACE spent £5,493.30 on first-class travel. a rolling basis which is expected to be completed by The ACE travel policy states that all staff, including June 2011. directors, will use standard class travel, or the most Under the revised arrangements the following offences cost-effective fare. In rare and reasonable circumstances, are being returned to the police to charge: an executive director may authorise first-class rail travel. Summary only offences, irrespective of plea; Criminal damage to property valued at less than £5,000 where Arts Council England: South Staffordshire a not guilty plea is anticipated; Handling stolen goods where a guilty plea is anticipated and Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for the case is suitable for disposal in a magistrates court; Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much money All Fraud Act 2006 where a guilty plea is anticipated and the Arts Council England spent in South Staffordshire case is suitable for disposal in a magistrates court; constituency per head of population in the latest Dangerous driving where a guilty plea is anticipated and the period for which figures are available. [44304] case is suitable for disposal in a magistrates court; Aggravated TWOC where the case is suitable for disposal in a Mr Vaizey: In the South Staffordshire constituency magistrates court; Arts Council England spend per head this financial Driving while disqualified and the case is suitable for disposal year is currently £0.11. in a magistrates court. Offences involving domestic violence and hate crime The funding figures used are from the latest period are excluded, as well as any motoring offences involving available, 1 April 2010 to 31 December 2010, and as a fatality, terrorism offences and any cases requiring the such the answer provided does not equate to a complete consent of the Attorney-General or the DPP. year of funding. Public Expenditure British Sky Broadcasting Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Attorney-General pursuant to the answer of 2 February 2011, Official Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Report, column 805W on public expenditure, by how Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent much the Crown Prosecution Service plans to reduce representations he has received on the proposed expenditure on (a) staff, (b) accommodation, (c) IT, takeover of BSkyB by News International. [44548] (d) prosecution and (e) general administrative costs in each year of the Comprehensive Spending Review Mr Jeremy Hunt: I refer the hon. Member to the period. [44825] statement I made to the House on 3 March 2011, Official Report, columns 518-19, setting out that I propose The Attorney-General: The following table shows by to accept undertakings from News Corporation on how much the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) intends their proposed merger with BSkyB. I have launched a to reduce its expenditure in each of the main expenditure consultation as to whether the undertakings in lieu areas in each year of the comprehensive spending review offered by News Corporation are sufficient to remedy, period. mitigate or prevent the public interest concerns in relation to media plurality raised by this merger. As part of that CPS cumulative savings over SR10 process I have published all relevant documentation on £ million my Department’s website: 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 www.culture.gov.uk Staff -15.5 -36.5 -57.5 -74.1 Accommodation -2.3 -3.6 -3.6 -4.0 Departmental Expenditure IT -2.0 -6.7 -11.0 -11.0 Prosecution -6.7 -6.5 -6.4 -21.4 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for General -1,4 -3.0 -4.5 -10.0 administrative costs Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what expenditure (a) his Department and (b) each public body The Department’s expenditure reduction plans are sponsored by his Department incurred on engaging kept under continuous review and the value of individual external audit services in each of the last three years; components may change over time. and to which service providers such payments were made in each year. [43759]

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media Arts Council England: Travel and Sport is audited by the National Audit Office (NAO). The NAO charge notional fees for the audit of Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for central Government Departments and Executive Agencies. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much Arts There is therefore no expenditure for the external audit Council England spent on first-class travel for its staff of the Department’s Resource Accounts and The Royal and directors in 2009-10. [44326] Parks Accounts. 925W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 926W

The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media £ and Sport has management and control responsibilities Body Auditor 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 for the National Lottery Distribution Fund (NLDF) and the Olympic Lottery Distribution Fund (OLDF). National Museum of National 92,000 92,000 87,000 Both funds are audited by the NAO and charged a hard Science and Industry Audit Office fee in cash as set out in the following table. National Portrait National 35,000 32,000 31,000 Gallery Audit Office Natural History National 49,000 51,000 46,000 £ Museum Audit Office Body Auditor 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 Olympic Delivery National 238,000 212,000 158,000 Authority Audit Office Department For National 26,500 28,900 24,000 Culture, Media and Audit Office Olympic Lottery National 13,000 13,000 12,000 Sport (NLDF) Distributor Audit Office Department For National 26,500 28,900 24,000 Public Lending Right National 18,000 17,500 17,000 Culture, Media and Audit Office Central Fund Account Audit Office Sport (OLDF) Royal Armouries National 36,000 36,000 41,000 Audit Office Sir John Soane’s National 14,000 14,000 8,250 Most of the Department’s arm’s length bodies are Museum Audit Office audited by the NAO and are charged a hard fee in cash. Sport England National 102,000 80,000 76,000 The two bodies audited by private firms are companies Audit Office as well as being charities, and have not been designated Sport England Lottery National 55,000 52,000 47,500 Distribution Fund Audit Office for audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General Tate National 49,000 42,000 40,000 under the Government Resources and Accounts Act 2000. Audit Office The following table sets out the bodies, their auditors UKAnti-Doping2 National 17,000 n/a n/a and the fees charged as disclosed in the bodies’ annual Audit Office reports and accounts. UK Film Council1 National 33,000 33,000 21,000 Audit Office UK Film Council National 24,000 24,000 20,000 £ Lottery Distribution Audit Office Body Auditor 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 Fund UK Sport1 National 45,000 45,000 33,000 1 Arts Council England National 68,000 75,000 60,000 Audit Office Audit Office UK Sport Lottery National 28,000 28,000 26,000 Arts Council England National 62,000 71,000 61,000 Distribution Account Audit Office Lottery Account Audit Office Victoria and Albert National 45,000 45,000 37,000 Big Lottery Fund National 106,000 105,000 110,000 Museum Audit Office Audit Office VisitBritain National 57,000 55,000 52,000 British Library National 53,000 52,000 50,000 Audit Office Audit Office Wallace Collection National 23,000 22,000 22,000 British Museum National 59,000 50,000 47,000 Audit Office Audit Office 1 Under the National Lottery etc Act 1993, Arts Council England, CE, Commission for National 28,000 27,000 26,090 NHMF, Sport England, UK Film Council and UK Sport are required to Architecture and the Audit Office produce separate Lottery Distribution accounts. These are audited separately Built Environment and shown as separate lines from the parent body’s accounts. English Heritage National 74,000 69,000 61,000 2 UK Anti-Doping has only been in independent operation since 2009-10. Audit Office Note: Football Licensing National 8,900 6,900 6,200 The Big Lottery Fund is a Lottery body but has its Lottery income Authority Audit Office consolidated with its other figures. Gambling Commission National 39,000 47,000 33,000 Audit Office Departmental Manpower Geffrye Museum National 9,000 7,500 6,400 Audit Office Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Horniman Museum BDO Stoy 13,100 13,825 12,450 Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many staff in Hayward LLP his Department were in the civil service redeployment Horserace Betting Levy National 45,000 38,000 35,000 pool on the latest date for which figures are available; Board Audit Office and how many of these had been in the redeployment Imperial War Museum National 41,000 36,000 34,000 pool for more than six months at that date. [44357] Audit Office Museums, Libraries and National 63,000 93,000 58,000 John Penrose: As of 1 March 2011, in the Department Archives Council Audit Office for Culture, Media and Sport there were two members Museum of Science and Beever and 9,500 9,500 11,410 Industry in Manchester Struthers of staff in the redeployment pool, of which one had National Gallery National 40,000 38,650 37,165 been in the redeployment pool for more than six months. Audit Office National Heritage National 10,000 9,000 8,000 Departmental Procurement Memorial Fund Audit Office (NHMF)1 Heritage Lottery Fund National 42,000 42,000 36,000 Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, (maintained by NHMF) Audit Office Olympics, Media and Sport what the cost to the public National Lottery National 25,000 24,000 22,000 purse was of the (a) procurement and (b) outsourcing Commission Audit Office function of (i) his Department and (ii) the (A) agency National Museums National 54,000 50,000 45,000 Liverpool Audit Office and (B) non-departmental public bodies for which he is National Maritime National 36,000 35,000 33,000 responsible in the last financial year for which figures Museum Audit Office are available. [43961] 927W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 928W

John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media Responsible Gambling Strategy Board and Sport has a combined procurement and outsourcing function. During the financial year 2009-10 the cost to Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for the public purse, which includes office space, utilities, Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what discussions IT and salaries, was £223,274. he has had with representatives of the gambling During the financial year 2009-10 the Royal Parks industry on the funding of (a) the Responsible agency procurement cost was £99,743. They do not Gambling Strategy Board, (b) the Responsible have a function which specifically deals with outsourcing. Gambling Fund and (c) the Responsibility in The Department does not collate this information for Gambling Trust. [44194] its arm’s length bodies. Accordingly, I have asked their chief executives to write to my hon. Friend the Member John Penrose: In the course of the usual engagement for Esher and Walton. with our sectors, my officials and I have met with various organisations and individuals, including Copies of the replies will be placed in the Libraries of representatives of the gambling industry to discuss a both Houses. wide range of issues. Electoral Reform Services Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funding the Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Gambling Commission has provided for the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board in the latest monetary value was of contracts his Department period for which figures are available. [44195] placed with Electoral Reform Services in each year since 2005. [44211] John Penrose: Under a service level agreement, the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board received £250,000 John Penrose: Nil. in 2010-11 from the Gambling Commission in order to Licensing Laws provide independent advice on the research, education and treatment elements of the Commission’s responsible gambling strategy. Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment his Sports: Special Educational Needs Department has made of the effects on pubs and clubs of the timetable for obtaining a licence for small live Mark Menzies: To ask the Secretary of State for music events. [44278] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funding his Department provides for sporting organisations for John Penrose: We are currently considering how to people with special needs. [44863] deliver our commitment to cut red tape and encourage the performance of more live music, while ensuring that Hugh Robertson [holding answer 7 March 2011]: UK there is appropriate protection for local communities. A Sport provides funding and support to elite athletes reduction in red tape associated with the licensing of from six different disability groups in the Paralympic regulated entertainment would clearly benefit pubs and movement, including the recently reinstated intellectual other venues that put on live music events now. This is disability group. why we are continuing to have discussions with The figures in the table include data on athlete and representatives from the music industry, the Local programme support for all UK Sport funded summer Government Association and others so that we can find and winter Paralympic sports: the best possible solution and bring forward proposals.

We have also provided warm support for the Bill £ proposed by Lord Clement-Jones in this area, albeit with some concerns over details of some of its proposals. 2010-11 grants paid1 Summer Paralympics 11,536,190 Ofcom Winter Paralympics 94,067

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Predicted 2011-13 APA and Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what the policy of Programme grants Ofcom is on steps to ensure that unlicensed white space Summer Paralympic 25,215,316 spectrum is available for innovative applications. Intellectual Disability 750,000 [44035] Winter Paralympic 281,750 1 Athlete Personal Award (APA) and Programme—includes current planned amount for March 2011. Mr Vaizey [holding answer 3 March 2011]: In its UK Sport also provides funding to the following Digital Dividend Review statement, published in December partners: 2007, Ofcom stated that it was minded to allow licence exempt access to whitespace spectrum, providing harmful £ interference was not caused to licensed users, such as Partner 2010-11 2011-13 Digital Terrestrial Television and Programme Making and Special Events services. Ofcom has recently concluded UK Sports Association for People 40,000 75,000 a consultation on its approach to implementing licence with Learning Disability exempt whitespace access. A summary of responses and British Paralympic Performance 450,000 900,000 Services next steps will be published during spring 2011. 929W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 930W

A key strand of Sport England’s work is to create In addition DCMS continue to analyse responses to more opportunities for those with disabilities to participate the recent Government public consultation on proposals in sport. to implement the revised framework, including the new As part of the Olympic legacy—Places, People, Play, Article 23a of the USD Directive, detailed above. plans are under way for allocating ring-fenced funding At the same time Ofcom are undertaking a review of of £8 million to support sport participation for disabled relay services which support disabled end users in their people over the next two years. Sport England is also use of electronic communications. The objective of this investing £1.54 million per year of Exchequer funding review is to assess whether current arrangements for the in the English Federation of Disability Sport (EFDS), provision of relay services are adequate in delivering to support their strategy to increase participation and equivalence to voice telephony for hearing- and speech- opportunities for disabled people. impaired end-users (including BSL users) and, if they In addition, Sport England is working closely with are not, to consider proportionate solutions. The formal EFDS and other national disability sports organisations public consultation element of this review will launch in to agree the most appropriate way to deliver a further the spring. investment of £2 million of national lottery funding to DCMS’s proposed changes to the Communications help support participation in sport by disabled people. Act 2003 will enable Ofcom, following the outcome of their review, to mandate the changes they deem appropriate and necessary to ensure that disabled end-users have Sports: Young People access to the equivalence and choice required by the revisions to Framework. Stephen Pound: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has made of recent trends in the level of HOME DEPARTMENT participation in sport by young people. [43629] Asylum Mr Jeremy Hunt [holding answer 3 March 2011]: The previous Government’s 2009/10 PE and Sport survey Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for showed that 55% of young people were doing three the Home Department what provision her Department hours of school sport, but also showed huge decline in makes for asylum seekers waiting to hear the outcome Years 12 and 13 to 23% and 21% respectively. of their cases; and what the cost of such support was to Harnessing the power of the Olympic and Paralympic the public purse in the latest period for which figures Games, the School Games will give every school and are available. [44323] every pupil the opportunity to participate in competitive school sport, inspiring a generation of young people to Damian Green: The UK Border Agency provides start a lifetime of sport. support in the form of accommodation and/or subsistence to everyone who claims asylum and who would otherwise be destitute, until they have exhausted their appeal Telecommunications: Sign Language rights. Support is also provided to failed asylum seekers who would otherwise be destitute and who face a legitimate Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for barrier to return. This includes a number who are Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps his judicially reviewing the decision not to grant asylum. Department plans to take to ensure that a choice of The total cost of asylum support in 2009-10 was £524 telecommunications services is available for users of million. British Sign Language. [44113] Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Vaizey: Revisions to the EU Electronic the Home Department if she will meet representatives Communications Framework, including the Universal of the refugee charity sector in Scotland to discuss the Services Directive, provide for member states to empower effects of reductions in funding for the UK Border national regulatory authorities (Ofcom in the UK) to Agency on the asylum system. [44666] specify, where appropriate, requirements to ensure that disabled end-users: Damian Green: The Secretary of State for the Home Department currently has no plans to meet with (a) have access to electronic communications services equivalent to that enjoyed by the majority of end-users; and representatives of the refugee charity sector in Scotland in this regard. (b) benefit from the choice of undertakings and services available to the majority of end-users. The UK Border Agency is committed to continuing to work with Voluntary Sector partners. However, asylum The revised framework makes clear that responsibility intake has reduced significantly since grant payments for decisions on equivalence reside with the National were first put in place. It is only right that funding is Regulatory Authority (NRA) reduced accordingly to reflect this. The grant reduction In order to fully implement these new provisions, the also reflects the fact that the UK Border Agency’s Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) is budget has been cut as part of the Government’s action proposing to make changes to section 51 of the to reduce the public deficit. Communications Act 2003 to clarify Ofcom’s power to impose a general condition in relation to equivalence. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State This will be in addition to the existing powers Ofcom for the Home Department what recent steps she has have under General Conditions of Entitlement (GC 15) taken to improve the quality of the initial decision- and the Universal Service Order 2003. making stage of asylum applications. [44816] 931W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 932W

Damian Green: The UK Border Agency continues to Information on those refused asylum and returned to invest in quality through a detailed audit process developed their home country is not available and could be obtained with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees only by the detailed examination of management (UNHCR) to support a continuous improvement in information at disproportionate cost. quality. In addition to auditing individual decisions it conducts audits of the quality in specific areas of interest Crime: Statistics such as potential victims of trafficking, maintaining the best interests of the child, and Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual decisions. The Border Agency provides a wide variety Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for the of training, policy, guidance and tools to support high Home Department what assessment she has made of quality decisions on asylum applications. The Asylum (a) the accuracy of statistical information on crime Improvement Project, which was established by the provided by her Department and (b) the merits of Government in summer 2010, is exploring new ways to proposals to change the method of (i) gathering and (ii) improve the asylum system which includes detailed publishing crime statistics. [44155] work to reduce the number of asylum decisions overturned at appeal. Lynne Featherstone: In line with the Code of Practice for official statistics, information about the accuracy and quality of crime statistics produced by the Home Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for Office are published alongside the statistics. In their the Home Department what proportion of asylum report on trust in crime statistics published in May seekers were (a) granted asylum and (b) refused 2010, the UK Statistics Authority assessed the technical asylum and returned to their home country in each of quality of Home Office crime statistics to compare well the last five years. [44433] with corresponding statistics for other countries. However, the Authority also indicated that much crime and antisocial Damian Green: Information on the outcome of asylum behaviour is being missed by both the British Crime applications is available in Main Table 2.7 of Control of Survey and police recorded crime and the statistics give Immigration: Annual Bulletin, United Kingdom 2009, an incomplete and partial picture. published in August 2010. This publication is available The Authority also noted the importance of the in the Library of the House and the Home Office’s statistics being seen as free from political interference to Research, Development and Statistics website at: improve public trust in them. This is why, as set out in the written ministerial statement given by the Secretary http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- stats.html of State for the Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), on Data for 2010 will be available in August 2011. A 20 January 2011, Official Report, columns 48-49WS, summary is as follows: she asked for independent advice from Jil Matheson, Analysis of applications for asylum, excluding dependants, made 2005 to 2009; the National Statistician, on changes to the scope of estimated outcomes, as at May 20101 crime statistics and on the future collection arrangements Principal applicants once responsibility for their publication moves from the 2005 2006 2007 2008 20094 Home Office to an independent body. Total principal applicants 25,710 23,610 23,430 25,930 24,485 Death: Registration Summary of estimated outcomes (including appeal outcomes at IAA/AIT)2 Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Recognised as a refugee and (21) (22) (25) (26) (26) Home Department what steps her Department takes to granted asylum as a percentage ensure that deaths occurring in England are registered of total applications in a timely and exhaustive manner. [44190] Not recognised as a refugee but (11) (10) (9) (9) (9) granted HP or DL as a percentage of total Damian Green: The Births and Deaths Registration applications Act 1953 provides that any death not reported to a Refused asylum, HP or DL, or (65) (64) (59) (56) (52) coroner is required to be registered within five days of withdrawn by appellant as a percentage of total its occurrence, or within 14 days if written notice of the applications death is given to the registrar. The Act also places a Cases with decision not (3) (5) (7) (8) (13) duty on those qualified to do so (e.g. a relative of the known3 as a percentage of deceased, or any person present at the death) to give total applications information to the registrar to enable the registration to 1 Figures (other than percentages) rounded to the nearest five (— = 0, *=1or 2) and may not sum to the totals shown because of independent rounding. take place, and makes it an offence to fail to do so if 2 Appeals do not include outcomes of cases reconsidered prior to appeal. required. Additionally, if a death has not been registered Excludes cases which were successful after appeal to the Immigration Appeal within the above time limits, registrars are authorised Tribunal/Immigration Appeal Review or higher courts. 3 No confirmation of a decision had been received when statistics were under the Act to require an informant to attend at the compiled on 10 May 2010. Includes appeals awaiting an outcome. register office for this purpose. 4 Provisional figures. A death reported to a coroner where he or she has The proportion of refused applicants does not include opened an inquest may be registered only on the conclusion outcomes of cases reconsidered prior to appeal, and of the inquest, or before the conclusion of the inquest if they also may include cases that were successful after the coroner has adjourned it on being informed that a appeal to the Immigration Appeal Tribunal/Immigration person has been charged with an offence concerning Appeal Review or higher courts. the death. 933W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 934W

Departmental Leaseback Arrangements Detention Centres

Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for the Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assets her Department has Home Department what the average monthly cost to sold and leased back over the last 12 months; what the the public purse of holding a person in immigration sale price was of each asset so sold; and what estimate detention in each facility was in 2010. [43392] she has made of the cost to the public purse of leasing back each such asset over the period of the lease. Damian Green: It is not possible to answer the question [45072] by giving details of average monthly cost in each detention facility since this information is commercially sensitive. Damian Green: There has been no sale and lease back Seven out of the 10 immigration removal centres are of property assets in the last 12 months. run by private contractors and the cost for running these centres are only agreed after an extensive tendering Departmental Manpower exercise. By giving the cost of running these centres we would jeopardise the process of ensuring that the taxpayer Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for the gets the optimum price. The average estimated direct Home Department how many staff in her Department monthly cost of holding a person in any of our immigration were in the Civil Service redeployment pool on the detention facility is £3,407. latest date for which figures are available; and how many of these had been in the redeployment pool for Detention Centres: Children more than six months at that date. [44346] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Damian Green: As at 28 February 2011, 244 members for the Home Department (1) what assessment she has of staff were in a redeployment pool/register operated made of steps taken by immigration detention facilities by the Home Office and its agencies. Of these, 143 to improve the family-friendly nature of their members of staff had been in a redeployment pool/register institutions; [43611] for more than six months as of that date. (2) what has been her Department’s expenditure on The number of staff in a redeployment pool/register steps to make immigration detention centres more as at 28 February represents around 0.83% of the total family-friendly in the latest period for which figures are headcount of the Home Office and its agencies. This available. [43612] response covers Home Office HQ, the UK Border Agency, Identity and Passport Service and Criminal Records Damian Green: The Government are committed to Bureau. ending the detention of children for immigration purposes. Departmental Procurement On 16 December 2010 we published our plans for doing this, including the immediate closure to children of the family unit at Yarl’s Wood Immigration Removal Centre. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what the cost to the public purse was of A fresh approach to managing family returns is being the (a) procurement and (b) outsourcing function of developed which places greater emphasis on engagement (i) her Department and (ii) the (A) agency and (B) with families and aims to encourage families to leave non-departmental public body for which she is without the need for enforcement action if they are responsible in the last financial year for which figures found to have no legal right to be in the UK. are available. [43951] Most elements of this new process went live across the UK on 1 March, including the setting up of a new Damian Green: The cost of procurement functions in independent Family Returns Panel to advise the UK the Home Department, its agencies and the non- Border Agency on how to ensure the return of those departmental public bodies (NDPBs) is provided in the families who do not take up the opportunities to leave following table. Outsourcing functions are not separately under their own steam. A range of options has been identified and the cost of such functions, if relevant, is developed to provide sufficient flexibility for a tailored included within the figures provided in the table. approach to each family. As a backstop, we are also developing a new option Cost of the procurement function of pre-departure accommodation for use when other Year ended 31 March 2010 (£000) options for ensuring return have failed. This will not Home Office 3,150 look or feel like an immigration removal centre; families Criminal Records Bureau 282 will be held in self-contained flats, providing them with Identity and Passport Service 3,542 independence and privacy, within a large setting, including UK Border Agency 4,900 extensive grounds. It will be run on a care model rather National Police Improvement 4,510 than a secure one and there will be provision for family Agency (inward and outward members to leave the premises after suitable risk assessments. facing procurement activities) The project to create the pre-departure accommodation Serious Organised Crime 1,928 has engaged the use of a number of specialist consultants Agency for areas such as surveying and planning. We have so Independent Police Complaints 159 far received invoices for around £65,000. Commission The pre-departure accommodation will take a little Independent Safeguarding 69 Authority longer than 1 March to establish so a small number of family rooms will remain available at Tinsley House Total 18,540 Immigration Removal Centre in the meantime. Their 935W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 936W use will be kept to an absolute minimum during this immigration purposes. A new asylum instruction was interim period. We do not expect them to be used published on 1 March 2011, providing additional advice beyond May for families with children, other than for on how to process an asylum application made by an those few cases of families who are refused entry to the adult with at least one child dependant under 18, and UK at the border and need to be held for a short time how to consider the best interests of the child within while enquiries are made and/or until a return flight can that process. Specialist training has also been provided be arranged for them. There may also be the occasional for any asylum case owners who will be required to host need to use Tinsley for criminal or other high-risk family return conferences or family departure meetings, families who could not be accommodated safely in the both key stages within the new family returns process pre-departure accommodation but this would be rare. which was rolled out nationally on 1 March 2011. A The family facility at Tinsley House has just been new family key worker pilot based in the north-west refurbished to create a far more family-friendly environment. region started recently with the aim of providing further This work has cost £1.3 million. practical support for families going through the asylum process. Both the family unit at Tinsley House and the new pre-departure accommodation will be subject to regular There are a considerable number of safeguards in assessments and reporting by UK Border Agency monitors, place to protect the welfare of unaccompanied asylum but also to the oversight and inspection of HM Chief seeking children and these are documented within the Inspector for Prisons, the Children’s Commissioner for ‘processing an asylum application from a child’ guidance. England and the Independent Monitoring Board. Recent changes include providing further guidance on considering the best interest of the child, the introduction Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State of a standardised welfare pro forma to ensure newly for the Home Department what support her encountered unaccompanied children’s physical welfare Department provides to young children detained in the is properly considered in advance of any interview, as immigration system. [43613] well as piloting a child specific asylum screening form. All unaccompanied children are referred to a local Damian Green: The UK Border Agency takes very authority as well as the Refugee Council’s Children seriously its responsibilities towards children. The agency Panel to ensure they obtain appropriate care and advice is required under section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship throughout the asylum process. and Immigration Act 2009 to carry out its functions Electoral Reform Services Ltd having regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in the UK. Statutory guidance has Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for been issued to the agency on how to fulfil this duty and the Home Department what the monetary value was of all staff are required to complete training on keeping contracts her Department placed with Electoral children safe. Reform Services Ltd in each year since 2005. [44220] As part of the Government’s commitment to children, we announced on 16 December 2010 plans to end the Damian Green: The following table provides spend detention of families with children for immigration relating to Electoral Reform Services for financial years purposes and new processes were rolled out on 1 March 2005 to date. to achieve this. The spend data are also shown for two business areas Special arrangements are also in place for unaccompanied that are no longer part of the Home Office: Communities children who arrive in the UK to claim asylum. The Group which moved to Department for Communities children are referred to the nearest local authority and Local Government (DCLG) in 2006 and National immediately on arrival to ensure that they receive the Offender Management Service (NOMS) which formed same standard of care and support as any other child in part of the new Ministry of Justice (MoJ) in 2007. need. Their asylum claims are then considered by specialist case owners with enhanced safeguards to take account Spend (£) of their vulnerability. Even if their asylum claims fail Communities the children are not returned to their countries of origin Financial year HO Group NOMS unless appropriate reception and care arrangements 2005-06 n/a 833.50 1,907.84 have been put in place. 2006-07 352.50 n/a 1,549.28 2007-08 n/a n/a n/a Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State 2008-09 n/a n/a n/a for the Home Department what recent steps she has 2009-10 1,923.22 n/a n/a taken to ensure the welfare of children during the 2010-11 1,233.75 n/a n/a asylum application process. [44817] Total 3,509.47 833.50 3,457,12

Damian Green: We are committed to safeguarding Entry Clearances: Overseas Students the welfare of asylum seeking children who arrive in the UK either unaccompanied or as part of a family group. Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for the The UK Border Agency (UKBA) has a statutory duty Home Department what estimate she has made of the to safeguard and promote the welfare of children who proportion of foreign national (a) postgraduate are in the United Kingdom under section 55 of the students, (b) undergraduate students and (c) students Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009. on sub-degree level courses who entered the UK on Where a child forms part of an asylum seeking family, student visas and were entitled to work in the UK for a further support has been provided to UKBA staff as period after completion of their studies who took up part of the recent work to end child detention for this entitlement in the last five years. [43666] 937W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 938W

Damian Green: There are many different work routes Main applicant student/tier four stats for 2010, by nationality (issued only), available to students on completion of their course. year issued 2010 Data on each of these and the previous courses of the Nationality Total students is not held centrally and could be collated only Dominican Republic 22 at disproportionate costs. East Timor (Timor-Leste) 3 Ecuador 145 Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Egypt 660 Home Department how many student visas were El Salvador 16 granted to citizens of each non-EU country in each of Equatorial Guinea 13 the 12 months to January 2011. [43770] Eritrea 7 Ethiopia 80 Damian Green: The following table provides the latest Fiji 11 available data, in line with officially published statistics, Gabon 4 for the number of student visas granted to applicants of Gambia 181 non-EU countries. The data covers the calendar year Ghana 832 for 2010. Grenada 20 Guatemala 21 Main applicant student/tier four stats for 2010, by nationality (issued only), year issued 2010 Guinea 45 Nationality Total Guinea-Bissau 1 Guyana 31 Afghanistan 354 Haiti 4 Albania 359 Honduras 14 Algeria 333 Hong Kong 5,317 Andorra 2 Hungary 0 Angola 233 India 42,545 Antigua and Barbuda 12 Indonesia 907 Argentina 142 Iran 2,483 Armenia 104 Iraq 356 Australia 1,035 Israel 208 Azerbaijan 432 Ivory Coast 33 Bahamas 53 Jamaica 104 Bahrain 643 Japan 3,760 Bangladesh 8,989 Jordan 765 Barbados 112 Kazakhstan 2,121 Belarus 135 Kenya 916 Belize 14 Korea (North) 2 Benin 22 Kosovo 62 Bhutan 19 Kuwait 1,130 Bolivia 44 Kyrgyzstan 81 Bosnia and Herzegovina 53 Laos 1 Botswana 230 Lebanon 370 Brazil 2,262 Lesotho 17 British Citizen 8 Liberia 22 British Dependent Territories Citizen 2 Libya 2,440 British National Overseas 1,816 Macau 165 British Overseas Citizen 1 Macedonia 77 Brunei 1,034 Madagascar 15 Burkina 10 Malawi 166 Burma (Myanmar) 257 Malaysia 6,284 Burundi 5 Maldives 69 Cambodia 41 Mali 22 Cameroon 665 Mauritania 9 Canada 3,503 Mauritius 733 Cape Verde 2 Mexico 1,068 Central African Republic 0 Moldova 64 Chad 2 Monaco 3 Chile 348 Mongolia 135 China 44,234 Montenegro 48 Colombia 3,556 Morocco 490 Comoros 4 Congo 15 Mozambique 31 Costa Rica 25 Namibia 30 Croatia 155 Nauru 0 Cuba 8 Nepal 2,333 Democratic Republic of Congo 23 New Zealand 212 Djibouti 4 Nicaragua 8 Dominica 14 Niger 6 939W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 940W

Main applicant student/tier four stats for 2010, by nationality (issued only), Main applicant student/tier four stats for 2010, by nationality (issued only), year issued 2010 year issued 2010 Nationality Total Nationality Total

Nigeria 10,948 Yugoslavia 5 Oman 645 Zambia 230 Pakistan 24,485 Zimbabwe 248 Palestinian Authority 2 Grand total 253,786 Panama 21 Papua New Guinea 12 Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Paraguay 4 Home Department how many overseas students from Peru 214 (a) EU member states and (b) outside the EU were Philippines 3,772 attending (i) universities and (ii) further education Qatar 895 colleges in the UK in the most recent year for which Russia 3,160 figures are available; and if she will make a statement. Rwanda 58 [44984] San Marino 2 Sao Tome And Principe 0 Mr Willetts: I have been asked to reply Saudi Arabia 8,090 The latest figures from the Higher Education Statistics Senegal 116 Agency (HESA) show in the 2009-10 academic year Serbia 232 there were 2,493,420 enrolments in UK higher education Seychelles 54 institutions. Of these enrolments, 125,045 were EU Sierra Leone 108 domiciled (excluding UK) and 280,760 were non-EU Singapore 1,846 domiciled. Domicile has been used as opposed to nationality Solomon Islands 1 as this is a more widely used and reliable method of Somalia 7 measuring overseas students. South Africa 495 In 2009-10, 2,322,200 learners were participating in South Korea 6,488 Government-funded further education at a general further Sri Lanka 7,583 education colleges (including tertiary colleges) in England. St Kitts and Nevis 12 Of these learners, 14,800 had a country of domicile in St Lucia 47 the EU (excluding the UK) and 5,400 had a country of St Vincent 40 domicile outside of the EU. Information on the nationality Stateless (Art One 1951 Convention) 14 of learners in further education is not available. Information Sudan 188 regarding students attending further education colleges Surinam 1 in the rest of the UK is not held by the Department. Swaziland 13 Government-funded learning as recorded on the Switzerland 0 individualised learner record (ILR) for further education Syria 395 is restricted to home learners. Therefore funded learners Taiwan 3,535 who are non EEA (European economic area) nationals Tajikistan 40 must have been resident in the UK for the three years Tanzania 476 preceding their course start date and the main purpose for residence was not to receive full-time education Thailand 5,085 during any part of that three year period. There are a Togo 16 limited number of exceptions to this, for example—refugees, Tonga 3 learners with indefinite leave to remain status, or learners Trinidad and Tobago 359 studying under reciprocal exchange agreements. Tunisia 57 The UK continues to welcome genuine students from Turkey 4,212 around the world to study at genuine education institutions Turkmenistan 212 here. Uganda 399 Ukraine 839 Homicide United Arab Emirates 913 United Nations 11 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the United States 14,477 Home Department what research her Department has Unspecified Nationality 39 (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on any links Uruguay 22 between income inequality and rate of (a) homicide Uzbekistan 138 and (b) other crime. [44310] Vanuatu 1 Venezuela 303 Nick Herbert: The Home Office has conducted no Vietnam 2,719 formal assessment of the impact of income inequality Western Samoa 1 (ie the gap between the richest and the poorest) on levels XXB (Refugee 1957 Convention) 8 of crime. The Home Office has, however, conducted an XXC (Northern Cyprus) 5 analysis of the results of the British Crime Survey to see XXH (Hong Kong SAL) 80 if there is a link between household income and risk of XXP (Palestinian Stateless) 214 being a victim of crime. This shows that there is no link between household income and violence, criminal damage, Yemen 159 domestic burglary or theft from the person. There is a 941W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 942W link between the highest earning households and vehicle Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the crime that may be due to the multiple ownership of Home Department what consideration she gave to the cars. This analysis was published in the Home Office EU Directive on human trafficking in formulating her annual crime statistics publication, Crime in England policy on human trafficking. [45123] and Wales 2009-10. Damian Green: The Government decided not to opt Human Trafficking into the European directive on human trafficking at the outset, but to review our position in line with the revised text. We are currently considering the revised Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for text and will announce a decision in due course. the Home Department how the inter-departmental ministerial group on trafficking monitored the progress of anti-trafficking measures in the UK between May Illegal Immigrants: Deportation 2010 and December 2010; and what reports on activity members of the group received. [42680] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department under what circumstances Damian Green [holding answer 28 February 2011]: force may be used to deport an illegal immigrant; if she The Inter Departmental Ministerial Group (IDMG) is will consider the use of alternatives to force in such made up of Ministers from a range of Departments, circumstances; and if she will make a statement. which have received advice on a range of trafficking [44774] matters. The chair of the IDMG received updates on human Damian Green: We expect all those with no basis of trafficking, and officials from a range of departments stay in the UK to leave voluntarily, and in certain monitored progress, based on information provided by circumstances we offer assistance with doing so. However, operational partners. where they refuse to leave we have a duty to uphold our immigration laws by enforcing their departure. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the The vast majority of people detained comply with Home Department when she plans to make an arrangements for their removal, and while they are announcement on her policy on human trafficking. taken to the airport to be placed on the aircraft, they [44234] make the return journey alone. However, a small minority of people even then refuse to leave and, regrettably, Damian Green: Combating human trafficking is a key escorts have to be used to enforce their departure. priority for the Government. We are committed to It is not our wish that individuals are restrained, but tackling organised crime groups which profit from this if they refuse to leave and in some cases even become human misery and to protecting victims. We are due to violent in an attempt to harm the officers, damage the publish our new strategy on human trafficking in the aircraft or generally disrupt their removal, we have to spring. ensure they are controlled for safety reasons and comply with the law. There are no other alternatives where Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State people refuse to go. for the Home Department what steps her Department Escort officers are trained in the use of control and is taking to identify victims of human trafficking. restraint techniques, which are only used as a matter of [44814] last resort when all other alternatives of persuading a person to comply with their removal have failed or they Damian Green: Since April 2009 we have had in place need to be controlled for safety reasons. a multi-agency framework for identifying and protecting victims of trafficking called the national referral mechanism The use of restraint is legitimate and lawful so long as (NRM). Decisions about who is a victim of trafficking its use is justified, proportionate and de-escalated at the are made by trained specialists in designated ‘Competent earliest opportunity when the individual has complied. Authorities’. Where restraint is used, officers have to complete a comprehensive report, which is submitted to a senior We have initiated a number of improvements to our manager and the UK Border Agency escort monitor for victim identification processes, including a new package review. of training for Competent Authorities and improved guidance for Competent Authorities and frontline UK Border Agency staff. Immigrants: Detainees

Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will announce the Home Department what her Department’s policy is on Government’s human trafficking policy by way of an returning immigration detainees to Côte d’Ivoire. oral statement in the House. [44851] [44822]

Damian Green [holding answer 7 March 2011]: Damian Green: The UK Border Agency considers Combating human trafficking is a key priority for the returns to Côte d’Ivoire on a case by case basis. It does Government. We are committed to tackling organised not remove individuals unless it is safe to do so. The crime groups which profit from this human misery and agency continues to monitor the situation in the Côte to protecting victims. We are due to publish our new d’Ivoire through its Country of Origin Information strategy on human trafficking in the spring, either by Service and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and oral or written statement. its returns policy is kept constantly under review. 943W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 944W

Immigration Controls: Travellers Missing Persons

Conor Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for the Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans the UK Border Agency Home Department how many records there are relating has to fully deploy smart zones to improve travellers’ to people aged under 18 on the Missing Persons experiences of immigration controls; and if she will database. [44165] make a statement. [44529] James Brokenshire: On 2 March 2011, the National Policing Improvement Agency’s (NPIA) Missing Persons Damian Green: The UK Border Agency is currently Bureau database Hermes held 509 records of missing developing a number of new initiatives, as part of a incidents involving individuals currently under the age wider operating process at our ports, which make most of 18. Police forces are required to notify the bureau of effective use of up-to-date technology. Smart zones are missing people who have not returned within 72 hours a part of this, using information gathered through the of the initial report to the police. Please note these e-Borders system to do more checks in advance of numbers relate to incidents and not individuals. arrival, and there are other elements including e-passport gates. Following trials of smart zones at Luton and The Hermes database is an operational database used Calais conducted last year, we will now work in consultation for policing purposes and it may contain records for with port operators and carriers to design port specific individuals who have been found by the force but that solutions which continue to secure the border and represent have not yet been updated on the database. The data are best value for money for the taxpayer. management information and have not been formally assessed for compliance with the Code of Practice for Official Statistics. Immigration: Northern Ireland Passport Office: Liverpool Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what discussions she has had with Mrs Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Northern Ireland Executive on the effect on Home Department pursuant to the answer of Northern Ireland of changes in immigration rules. 28 February 2011, Official Report, columns 94-95W, on [44559] the Passport Office: Liverpool, if she will publish (a) the results of the review undertaken by the Identity and Damian Green: The Secretary of State for the Home Passport Service into its estate and staff capacity and Department currently has no plans to meet with the (b) the consultation document being discussed with Northern Ireland Executive with regard to this matter. staff, trade unions and interested parties. [44335] The changes to the immigration rules have been well Damian Green [holding answer 4 March 2011]: I refer publicised in Northern Ireland with officials from the the hon. Member to the reply given on 3 March 2011, Executive being invited to attend meetings where the Official Report, column 541W. The papers used during changes were discussed. In addition full consultation the consultation process will include the review carried exercises were undertaken in which the Executive had out by the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) into its the opportunity to make their views known. existing and future operational requirements, the multi criteria analysis and the impact assessment which is due Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for the to be published shortly. Home Department how many people were subject to immigration bail conditions in Northern Ireland in Police each of the last three years for which figures are available. [44561] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assessment she has made of Damian Green: The UK Border Agency does not the likely effects on co-operation between police forces collate this information as a matter of course. The of the election of police commissioners from different information requested could be obtained only by the political parties. [44557] detailed examination of individual case records at disproportionate cost. Nick Herbert: Police authorities throughout England and Wales are made up of members of all political persuasions and independent members and collaborate Members: Correspondence extensively. There is no reason to suppose police and crime Mr Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for the commissioners will be any less pragmatic in working Home Department when she plans to respond to the with whichever partners bring the best improvement to letter of 19 January 2011 from the hon. Member for the police services they provide to the public and they Walsall North as part of the ongoing correspondence will be answerable at the ballot box if they fall short of on matters concerning a resident of his constituency that responsibility. and the UK Border Agency. [42799] In addition, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill imposes a strong duty on police and crime Damian Green [holding answer 28 February 2011]: commissioners to collaborate with each other and with The UK Border Agency wrote to the hon. Member on 7 chief constables where it is in the public’s best interest. March 2011. Collaboration is one of the ways we expect police and 945W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 946W crime commissioners and chief constables to look for Police community support officers that have been dismissed as at 30 September 1,2 opportunities to deliver policing services in a more 2010, by police force area effective and efficient manner. Dismissals England and Wales 66 1 This table contains full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the Police Community Support Officers: Redundancy nearest whole number. Because of rounding, there may be an apparent discrepancy between totals and the sums of the constituent items. 2 Dismissals include members of staff required to resign, staff who have been made redundant or staff whose contract has been terminated. Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many police community Police: Contracts support officers were made redundant in each police force area in England and Wales in 2010-11. [42041] Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans she has for the Nick Herbert: Separate figures for staff made redundant outsourcing of services currently undertaken by police are not collected centrally. The available data provided officers. [45124] in the table show the number of police community support officers dismissed as at 30 September 2010 by Nick Herbert: We are supporting the police service in police force area. Dismissals include members of staff exploring the value of forming partnerships with private required to resign, staff that have been made redundant sector organisations for the delivery of back and middle or staff whose contract has been terminated. Figures office functions. for the second half of 2010-11 are not yet available. Police: Pensions Police community support officers that have been dismissed as at 30 September 2010, by police force area1,2 Dismissals Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what estimate she has made of Avon and Somerset 1 the likely savings to the Police Pension Scheme of the Bedfordshire 0 proposed indexation according to the consumer prices Cambridgeshire 3 index (a) in 2010-11 and (b) in the next (i) 10, (ii) 20, Cheshire 1 (iii) 25 and (iv) 30 years. [40389] Cleveland 0 Cumbria 0 Nick Herbert: The Government have not made any Derbyshire 0 separate estimate of the change in central Government Devon and Cornwall 0 expenditure (a) in 2010-11 or (b) in the next (i) 10, (ii) Dorset 0 20, (iii) 25 and (iv) 30 years for the Police Pension Durham 0 Schemes as a result of the change to indexation of Dyfed-Powys 0 public service pensions and benefits in line with the Essex 25 consumer prices index. Gloucestershire 0 Greater Manchester 1 However, the overall estimated savings in annually Gwent 0 managed expenditure over the forecast period for public Hampshire 1 service pension expenditure were made available in answers Hertfordshire 0 to the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) Humberside 0 on 27 July 2010, Official Report, column 1193W and the Kent 0 Office of Budgetary Responsibility, responsible for Lancashire 1 forecasting expenditure on public service pensions, has Leicestershire 0 included the change to indexation in line with the Lincolnshire 2 consumer prices index in their methodology. London, City of 0 Shahid Shabaz Khan Merseyside 0 Metropolitan police 20 Norfolk 0 Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Northamptonshire 0 State for the Home Department what recent Northumbria 0 discussions she has had with the government of North Wales 0 Pakistan on the potential danger to Shahid Shabaz North Yorkshire 1 Khan should he return to that country; and if she will Nottinghamshire 0 make a statement. [44535] South Wales 0 South Yorkshire 0 Damian Green [holding answer 7 March 2011]: The Staffordshire 0 Secretary of State for the Home Department, my right Suffolk 0 hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), Surrey 1 has had no specific discussion with regards to this Sussex 0 matter. Thames Valley 2 The UK Government take their international Warwickshire 2 responsibilities seriously. We have a proud history of West Mercia 2 providing refuge to those in genuine need of our protection. West Midlands 2 Each application is treated on its own merits and decisions West Yorkshire 2 are made based on relevant information available at the Wiltshire 0 time. 947W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 948W

Special Constables Nick Herbert [holding answer 4 March 2011]: The Interception Modernisation Programme was a programme Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for set up under the last Government. As made clear in the the Home Department what her most recent estimate is Strategic Defence and Security Review, the Government of the number of special constables serving in each will continue to build on an existing programme of work to preserve the ability of the law enforcement, police force. [44370] security and intelligence agencies to obtain communications data and to intercept communications within the Nick Herbert: The available data are provided in the appropriate legal framework. We will legislate to ensure following table which shows the number of special this is compatible with the Government’s approach to constables in each police force as at 30 September 2010 civil liberties and use of communications capabilities. (headcount). As set out in the Home Office’s Structural Reform Plan, Special constable strength by force area as at 30 September 2010 details of this legislation will be announced in Parliament Headcount1 in due course. Avon and Somerset 461 Terrorism: Deaths Bedfordshire 225 Cambridgeshire 189 Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Cheshire 360 Home Department whether each death arising from Cleveland 242 the terrorist attacks in London on 7 July 2005 has been Cumbria 139 registered in the register of deaths for England. [44189] Derbyshire 297 Devon and Cornwall 632 Damian Green: All deaths arising from the terrorist Dorset 310 attacks in London on 7 July 2005 were registered between Durham 132 20 August 2007 and 28 January 2008. Dyfed-Powys 170 UK Human Trafficking Centre Essex 679 Gloucestershire 162 Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the Greater Manchester 451 Home Department (1) what mechanism she plans to Gwent 144 put in place to ensure that a focus on the safeguarding Hampshire 450 needs of trafficked children is maintained within the Hertfordshire 393 proposed National Crime Agency; [44161] Humberside 340 (2) whether she has plans to integrate the UK Kent 284 Human Trafficking Centre into the National Crime Lancashire 462 Agency; [44162] Leicestershire 219 Lincolnshire 163 (3) what the proposed (a) roles and (b) London, City of 79 responsibilities are of agencies within the proposed Merseyside 466 National Crime Agency in respect of safeguarding [44163] Metropolitan police 3,944 children and young people; Norfolk 273 (4) what plans she has for the future of the UK Northamptonshire 228 Human Trafficking Centre. [44341] Northumbria 187 Damian Green: The consultation document, ‘Policing North Wales 217 in the 21st Century’ announced our intention to create a North Yorkshire 187 powerful new body of operational crime fighters—the Nottinghamshire 281 National Crime Agency—to tackle serious and organised South Wales 214 crime more effectively and strengthen our borders. To South Yorkshire 218 be established in 2013, this powerful new body will Staffordshire 395 harness and build on the intelligence, analytical and Suffolk 333 enforcement capabilities of the existing Serious Organised Surrey 347 Crime Agency, of which the UK Human Trafficking Sussex 277 Centre is a part, and better connect these capabilities to Thames Valley 473 those within the police service, HM Revenue and Customs, Warwickshire 205 the UK Border Agency and a range of other criminal West Mercia 256 justice partners. It will contain a Border Policing Command West Midlands 612 that will enhance national security, improve immigration West Yorkshire 448 controls and crack down on trafficking of people, weapons Wiltshire 228 and drugs. Further details will be published shortly. Total 16,772 1 All figures are provisional, subject to change and have not been verified by Vetting forces. Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Telecommunications: Databases Home Department how many individuals have been barred by the Independent Safeguarding Authority in Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the the (a) statutory, (b) sporting, (c) faith and (d) Home Department what progress her Department has uniformed groups sector in relation to harm or risk of made on the Intercept Modernisation Programme; and harm to 16 and 17-year-olds in each year since the if she will make a statement. [44418] organisation was established. [44962] 949W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 950W

Lynne Featherstone: The Independent Safeguarding Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2011: Authority (ISA) does not collect data in the form requested. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics The ISA operates under powers established in the (ONS) have been asked to reply to your recent question asking Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006, which defines what is the most recent estimate of the cost to the public purse of a child as anyone who has not attained the age of 18. the 2011 Census. (44275) The ISA can bar individuals who demonstrate harm or The most recent estimated total cost of the 2011 Census in a risk of harm to children in general rather than those England and Wales is £482 million. This covers the period 2005-2016. defined by any specific age category. The cost and financial control of the 2011 Census was outlined in the White Paper ‘Helping to shape tomorrow’ which was Voluntary Work and Charitable Donations published in December 2008 and is available on the website http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-census/2011-census- Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the project/legislation/index.html Home Department whether her Department has a policy to encourage its employees to (a) volunteer and Civil Servants: Leave (b) donate via payroll giving. [43241] Damian Green: The Home Office does have a policy Damian Hinds: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet on volunteering. Our policy encourages staff to take up Office what practice the civil service has adopted on the to five days special leave to develop their skills and accrual of holiday days during maternity leave. [44523] experience, while giving something back to the community.In September 2010, the Home Office produced Mr Maude: The Sex Discrimination Act, Maternity a guidance on volunteering for the Olympics which has and Paternity Leave etc. Regulations require that holiday been adopted by a large number of other Government days should accrue during both ordinary and additional Departments. We also offer guidance on charitable maternity leave. Arrangements for taking accrued leave fundraising to encourage staff to take part in fundraising may vary from department to department under the events. delegated authority to make their own arrangements There is no official policy for donating through the for maternity leave. payroll but regular promotions take place to encourage staff to set up regular monthly donations. Promotions Electoral Reform Services are managed by inviting charities into offices and directly through intranet and in-house staff magazine campaigns. Permanent guidance on how to set up payments is on Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Minister for the our intranet. Cabinet Office what the monetary value was of contracts his Department placed with Electoral Reform Services in each year since 2005. [44213] PRIME MINISTER Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office has not placed any Armed Forces: Middle East contracts with Electoral Reform Services in financial years 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10. Mr Wallace: To ask the Prime Minister what recent assessment he has made of the threat to UK security Government Departments: Business Plans from the situation in the middle east; and if he will review the Government’s programme of reductions in the strength of the armed forces in the light of that Stella Creasy: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet assessment. [44122] Office (1) which Secretaries of State the Minister of State with responsibility for the coordination of policy Dr Fox: I have been asked to reply. has met to discuss (a) implementation of departmental The National Security Council has considered the business plans and (b) instances when actions stated in risks to UK interests, including to our nationals, from such plans as due for completion have not been the situation in the middle east. The Government will completed by the due date since November 2010; and keep the developing situation under review but the on what date each such meeting took place; [44751] events of the last few weeks have reinforced the assessments (2) which Permanent Secretaries the Cabinet made in the Strategic Defence and Security Review, Secretary has met to discuss (a) implementation of including the requirement to be able to respond flexibly departmental business plans and (b) instances when with the armed forces able to deal efficiently with a actions stated in such plans as due for completion have variety of different scenarios. not been completed by the due date since November 2010; and on what date each such meeting took place. [44752] CABINET OFFICE Census Mr Letwin: The Government are committed to publishing monthly updates on Departments’ progress against key Mr Knight: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet actions and milestones of business plans. The latest Office what his most recent estimate is of the cost to updates were published on 4 March 2011. I meet with the public purse of the 2011 Census. [44275] Secretaries of State and their Permanent Secretaries on a quarterly basis to discuss the implementation of their Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the business plans and I refer the hon. Member to my responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have evidence to the Public Accounts Select Committee on asked the authority to reply. 9 February 2011. 951W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 952W

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what individual Deputy Prime Minister payments his Department made to (a) the Community Development Foundation and (b) its associated bodies Mr Bone: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he in each of the last three years; and for what purpose in will bring forward proposals to abolish his post. each case. [43851] [44119] Andrew Stunell: The Department for Communities The Deputy Prime Minister: No. and Local Government provided £2,500 to the Muslim Council of Britain for a guest table at the council leadership dinner held on 22 February 2010. DCLG has COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT not provided any further funding to the Muslim Council of Britain for the organisation to undertake work or Affordable Housing projects. For an interim period, funding for the Mosques and Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Imams National Advisory Board (MINAB) was routed Communities and Local Government how much is to through the council as one of MINAB’s founding members be paid to each local authority in New Homes Bonus in as MINAB had not then acquired independent charitable the financial year 2011-12. [44511] status, and as a result did not have its own bank account. Funding for MINAB was made directly to Grant Shapps: The new homes bonus will match fund them as soon as they became an independent organisation. the additional council tax raised for new homes and The funding was to support them to improve standards empty properties brought back into use, for the following in mosques (£116,000 in 2008-09 and £58,000 in 2009-10). six years with an enhancement for affordable homes. Muslim Council of Britain has a large and wide New homes bonus provisional allocations for English ranging national membership of organisations that are local authorities have been deposited in the Library of affiliated to it. Of these, DCLG has funded the following the House. Local authorities have until 10 March to organisations through the Community Leadership Fund: make representations on the data that is used to calculate Muslim YouthHelpline—£30,650 (2008-09), £61,888 (2009-10), the payments. £64,767 (2010-11) to build their capacity to extend the reach of The summary of responses to the consultation, final their support services to vulnerable young people, scheme design and provisional allocations were published Karimia Institute—£67,180 (2008-09), £50,000 (2009-10), £50,000 on 17 February and can be viewed at: (2010-11) for youth leadership training. www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingsupply/ Islamic Society of Britain—£20,000 (2008-09) for developing newhomesbonus the Islamic Awareness Week website to promote positive understanding of Islam to other communities. Affordable Housing: Olympic Games 2012 Young Muslims UK—£20,000 (2008-09), £5,000 (2009-10) to promote talent among young Muslims Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Muslim Aid—£5,000 (2009-10) for part-sponsorship of Muslim Communities and Local Government whether Aid’s 25th Anniversary. domestic properties built on the Olympic Park will be eligible for the New Homes Bonus. [44328] Housing Occupancy

Grant Shapps: The New Homes Bonus is a powerful, Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for simple, transparent and permanent incentive for local Communities and Local Government (1) what authorities and communities to increase their aspirations assessment he has made of the capacity of registered for housing growth. All properties that add to a local social landlords to provide appropriately-sized authority’s effective housing stock will be eligible for accommodation for working age tenants in properties the bonus; this includes new homes and empty homes of a size not warranted by their household size who brought back into use. Details of how the level of wish to move; [43835] effective housing is calculated are set out in the Final (2) what his estimate is of the number of socially- Scheme Design, available at: rented properties of each number of bedrooms in each http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/ local authority area to be allocated by local authorities 1846530.pdf and registered social landlords to meet demand arising Community Development Foundation from social tenants of working age moving to properties warranted by their household size. [43837] Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what payments Andrew Stunell: I refer the hon. Member to the and grants the Community Development Foundation answer I gave her on 3 March 2011, Official Report, made in relation to the prevention of extremism since column 570W. its inception. [43850] Local Government Services: Third Sector Andrew Stunell: The Department for Communities and Local Government has not provided any payment Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for or grant to the Community Development Foundation Communities and Local Government what role he in relation to the prevention of extremism since its expects the big society to play in providing services inception. previously provided by local government. [44118] 953W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 954W

Andrew Stunell: The big society is neither a single Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the initiative nor a traditional government programme. Rather, Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive the big society is about putting individuals and groups of the Audit Commission to write to my hon. Friend in the driving seat in their communities, with government direct. playing an enabling role. So one of the three pillars of Letter from Andy McKeon, dated March 2011: the big society is our work on public sector reform Parliamentary Question: how much the Audit Commission spent through which public services will be opened to new on foreign travel in each of the last three years; and in respect of providers such as charities, social enterprises and private which countries the expenditure was incurred. companies to make them more innovative, diverse and YourParliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply in responsive to public need. the absence of the Chief Executive on leave. A key plank of this strategy will be delivered through The Audit Commission spent £2,168.28 on foreign travel in the Localism Bill, which will be introducing new rights 2008, £1,306.83 in 2009 and £224.30 in 2010. Only standard/economy to enable communities to challenge to take over running tickets were purchased. Details of the journeys are given below: local authority services, and help them save assets and facilities that are important to them. Country Detail

The community right to challenge will enable voluntary 2008 and community groups, local authority employees that Portugal Attendance and presentation on the Commission’s work on wish to deliver the service as a mutual, and parish payment by results in the NHS at the Patient Classification Systems councils to express an interest in running a local authority International Conference. service where they believe they could do it differently or Canada Attendance as part of a UK delegation organised by the Chartered Institute of Housing. The delegation included staff from CLG, better. The authority must consider the expression of Scottish Parliament, and the Welsh Assembly. interest and where it accepts it, run a procurement Austria Attendance at a Eurorai seminar on auditing benefits. exercise for the service. Malta Attendance at the European Healthcare Fraud and Corruption Also, while retaining accountability for standards, Network annual assembly. The Audit Commission attended as the government needs to give professionals more freedom UK voting representative. Belgium Attendance at a conference on the potential role of the external so we have ended the comprehensive area assessment, auditor in carbon reduction and corporate social responsibility. the national indicator set and central control of local area agreement targets. 2009 Local Government: Milk Iceland Attendance at a formal creditors’ meeting convened in relation to Landsbanki, one of the failed Icelandic banks. Denmark Presentation of a paper at the International Research Seminar on Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Public Service Management and gathering information about Communities and Local Government what estimate he international best practice. has made of the quantity of milk purchased by each Germany Attendance at a European TeamMate User Forum. TeamMate is local authority in England in the last 12 months for the audit software used by the Audit Commission. which figures are available; and how much each local Spain Attendance at a Eurorai seminar on environmental auditing. authority spent on (a) milk and (b) other dairy products in that period. [44730] 2010 Spain Invitation to speak at the Spanish Auditors Conference in Robert Neill [holding answer 7 March 2011]: Financial Barcelona on the Commission’s experience of using the private or quantitative information on milk and other dairy sector on public sector audits. products purchased by local authorities in England is Belgium Attendance at a conference on the potential role of the external not held centrally. auditor in carbon reduction and corporate social responsibility. Mortgages Rented Housing: Antisocial Behaviour George Eustice: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what assessment Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for he has made of the effects of (a) restrictions under Communities and Local Government what plans his section 157 of the Housing Act 1985 and (b) other Department has to bring forward proposals to remove statutory restrictions on sale or purchase related to more quickly antisocial tenants causing problems for residency on the willingness of lenders to grant other residents. [44802] mortgages for purchases. [44123]

Grant Shapps: We have not made any formal assessment Grant Shapps: As I announced on 11 January, we are of the impact of statutory residential restrictions on the proposing to introduce a new mandatory ground for availability of mortgage finance. The decision to lend possession for serious housing related antisocial behaviour on any property or to any individual is essentially a which will make it easier for landlords to take swift and commercial judgment for the lender. decisive action against the most antisocial tenants. Officials are currently working on details of this proposal which Public Expenditure will require legislation to come into force. My department is also exploring jointly with the Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Ministry of Justice whether any unnecessary obstacles Communities and Local Government how much the to the swift resolution of antisocial behaviour possession Audit Commission spent on foreign travel in each of cases where serious harm is being caused to individuals the last three years; and in respect of which countries and communities exist and, if so, how these can be the expenditure was incurred. [44025] overcome. 955W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 956W

More widely, the Government are currently consulting Table 1: Community cohesion by Index of Multiple Deprivation, England, on proposals to streamline and improve the existing 2009-10 Percentage of people who definitely toolkit available to the police, social landlords and agree or tend to agree that people others to tackle antisocial behaviour. The proposals are from different backgrounds get on well intended to better protect victims and communities Index of Multiple Deprivation1 together from the serious harm caused by criminal and antisocial 290 behaviour by making the tools faster, more flexible, and 388 more effective. 490 Sleeping Rough 588 686 Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for 783 Communities and Local Government what recent steps 879 he has taken to reduce the number of people who are 979 sleeping rough. [44803] 10 (Most deprived) 75 All 85 Grant Shapps: This Government are committed to 1 Based on deciles classified according to the Index of Multiple Deprivation, tackling rough sleeping. We have maintained the level 2007. of Homelessness Grant, with £400 million being made Table 2 shows levels of community cohesion for available to local authorities and the voluntary sector different levels of respondent income, showing the over the next four years to help them reduce rough percentage of people who agreed or disagreed that their sleeping and prevent homelessness. local area was a place where people from different A cross-departmental Ministerial Working Group on backgrounds got on well together. It shows that levels Homelessness has been set up to address the complex of community cohesion were high across all respondent causes of homelessness and improve support for homeless income bands. people. Table 2: Community cohesion by respondent income, England, 2009-10 We have introduced a new way of evaluating rough Percentage of people who definitely agree or tend to agree that people sleeping levels. All areas across England now provide from different backgrounds get on well counts or robust estimates giving a clear national picture Respondent income1 together so more targeted support can be provided to some of £75,000 or more 88 the most vulnerable people in society. £50,000-£74,999 85 Social Conditions £30,000-£49,999 87 £20,000-£29,999 85 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for £15,000-£19,999 87 Communities and Local Government what assessment £10,000-£ 14,999 83 his Department has made of potential links between £5,000-£9,999 84 income inequality and social and community cohesion. Under £5,000 82 [44090] All 85 1 Based on respondent income only, this does not reflect the income of the Andrew Stunell: All Citizenship Survey data are publicly household. available on the Department’s website at: Translation Services http://www.communities.gov.uk/communities/research/ citizenshipsurvey/ The Citizenship Survey gathers regular information Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for on perceptions of community cohesion, defined as the Communities and Local Government how much the extent to which people agree or disagree that their local Audit Commission has spent on translation and area is a place where people from different backgrounds interpretation costs in each of the last three years; and get on well together. Levels of overall community cohesion in respect of which languages. [43849] are high. In 2009-10, 85% of people in England either agreed that their local area was one where people from Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the different backgrounds got on well together. Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive of the Audit Commission to write to my hon. Friend For the purposes of considering the relationship between direct. income inequality and community cohesion in England, two measures are used here: an area-based measure of Letter from Andy McKeon, dated 8 March 2011: deprivation, and the income of the survey respondent. YourParliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply in Table 1 shows levels of community cohesion by area the absence of the Chief Executive, who is on leave. deciles, based on the Index of Multiple Deprivation. The Audit Commission spent £17,311.31 in 2010/11, £4,608.78 The table shows levels of cohesion for the 10% least in 2009/10 and £12,588.51 in 2008/9 on translation and interpretation services. These costs were incurred in order to meet the Commission’s deprived neighbourhoods through to the 10% most responsibilities under disability and race equality legislation. For deprived neighbourhoods. example, the Commission provides translation of documents in Table 1: Community cohesion by Index of Multiple Deprivation, England, alternative languages on request. 2009-10 A list of languages is given below. Percentage of people who definitely List of languages agree or tend to agree that people from different backgrounds get on well British sign language 1 Index of Multiple Deprivation together Braille 1 (Least deprived) 89 Lithuanian 957W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 958W

Punjabi Air Passenger Duty Gujarati Bengali Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Chancellor of the Urdu Exchequer if he will review his proposals for increases Hindi in air passenger duty. [44465] Cantonese Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Member to the Mandarin answer given on 22 November 2010, Official Report, Spanish column 83W, to the hon. Member for Central Suffolk Somali and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter). Albanian Child Benefit Farsi Kurdis Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Sora (1) whether the value of child benefit payments Polish awarded under the EU co-ordination of social security systems in respect of children living in other EU Voting Systems member states can exceed the full UK rate; [44264] (2) what mechanisms are in place to prevent fraud in Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for cases where child benefit and tax credits are paid to Communities and Local Government what guidance EEA nationals where a child is resident in another EU his Department has issued to (a) the Community member state. [44269] Development Foundation and (b) other non- departmental public bodies on participation in Justine Greening: UK child benefit payable under EC initiatives which favour a particular outcome from the Regulation 883/2004 in respect of children resident in referendum on the alternative vote; and if he will make another EU/EEA member state will not exceed the full a statement. [43848] UK rate. As with all other child benefit and child tax credit Andrew Stunell: My Department has not issued any claims, the claimant must provide documentary evidence guidance to either the Community Development of the child being claimed for, such as an original birth Foundation nor any other non-departmental public or adoption certificate. In addition, where a claim is body on the alternative vote. Cabinet Office officials made under EC Regulation 883/2004, HMRC will carry will be publishing guidance in due course. out further checks with the authorities of the other member state to confirm the composition of the family, whether the other parent is working there and whether that member state is paying family benefits. Payments TREASURY of UK family benefits are not made until the other member state has provided the necessary confirmation. Green Investment Bank Child Benefit: British Nationals Abroad Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will assess the effects on the credit rating for UK Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer debt of placing the liabilities of the proposed Green whether (a) child benefit is and (b) tax credits are Investment Bank on the national balance sheet. [43265] payable to any UK nationals living outside the EEA. [44268] Justine Greening [holding answer 2 March 2011]: All credit ratings, including sovereign ratings, are a matter Justine Greening: Child benefit and tax credits are for credit rating agencies. All three major credit rating intended to support families with children and those in agencies continue to assign the UK the highest possible low-paid work here. Nationality is not a condition of credit rating. entitlement. Instead, entitlement to child benefit and tax credits is generally reliant on claimants being in the Aggregates Levy: Northern Ireland UK, that is they must be present, ordinarily resident and have a right to reside. Naomi Long: To ask the Chancellor of the However, UK Crown servants (such as armed forces Exchequer what discussions he has had with the personnel and civil servants) posted overseas and their European Commission since 15 December 2010 on accompanying partners may be treated as being in the state aid approval for the aggregates levy credit scheme UK and may therefore be entitled to child benefit and in Northern Ireland. [44772] tax credits during the period of their posting.

Justine Greening: The Government remain fully Children: Day Care committed to reinstating the Aggregates Levy Credit Scheme in Northern Ireland. Officials are working closely Ms Buck: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the authorities in Northern Ireland and representatives what estimate he has made of the number of of the quarrying industry to provide the Commission households in receipt of the maximum entitlement for with evidence to enable them to approve the Aggregates assistance with childcare costs in (a) each region, (b) Levy Credit Scheme both retrospectively and for the Scotland, (c) Wales and (d) Northern Ireland at the future. latest date for which figures are available. [44388] 959W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 960W

Mr Gauke: The number of households known to be monthly payment performance statistics for the Treasury in receipt of the maximum entitlement for assistance Group can be found on the Treasury’s website. Figures with child care costs through the child care element of for February will be published in due course. tax credits at December 2010 is shown in the following Details of the link to the payment performance data table. is available at: Families benefiting from the maximum entitlement for assistance with child care http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ costs group_payment_performance.htm Region Number Departmental Leaseback Arrangements North East 435 North West 1,360 Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Yorkshire and Humberside 830 Exchequer what assets his Department has sold and East Midlands 1,005 leased back over the last 12 months; what the sale price West Midlands 1,000 was of each asset so sold; and what estimate he has East 1,455 made of the cost to the public purse of leasing back London 7,075 each such asset over the period of the lease. [45066] South East 1,955 South West 580 Justine Greening: The Treasury has not sold and Wales 590 leased back any assets in the past 12 months. Scotland 1,095 Northern Ireland (NI Dataset) 435 Departmental Manpower All 17,815 Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many staff in his Department were in Ms Buck: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the civil service redeployment pool on the latest date what estimate he has made of expenditure from the for which figures are available; and how many of these public purse on the provision of assistance with had been in the redeployment pool for more than six childcare costs in 2011-12. [44389] months at that date. [44344]

Mr Gauke: Child care assistance through the child Justine Greening: HM Treasury manages its own care element of working tax credit is estimated to cost deployment pool which facilitates the movement of the Exchequer £1.6 billion in 2011-12. staff across the Department. As of 3 March 2011, there Income tax and NICs forgone through employer- were a total of 31 employees within the HM Treasury supported child care is estimated to cost the Exchequer deployment pool, seven of which have been in the £600 million in 2011-12. deployment pool for over six months. In addition the Department for Education also funds Immigrants: Income 15 hours per week (for 38 weeks a year) of free early education for all three and four-year-olds. This is also Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer being extended gradually to the most disadvantaged how many foreign-born (a) millionaires and (b) two-year-olds. Local authorities in England spent over billionaires moved to the UK in each of the last £4 billion on provision for under fives last year, on the 10 years. [44378] early education entitlement and reception classes in schools. Mr Gauke: There is no obligation for individuals to declare their level of wealth to HM Revenue and Customs. Credit Default Swaps Therefore no data is available on the number of foreign-born individuals resident in the UK who can be described as Stephen Phillips: To ask the Chancellor of the a millionaire or a billionaire. Exchequer what discussions he has had with his international counterparts on the regulation of credit Industrial Diseases: Compensation default swaps and similar instruments. [44678] Mr Anderson: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials hold Exchequer how long on average it takes HM Revenue various meetings and discussions with representations and Customs’ National Insurance Contributions Office from a wide variety of organisations in the public and Special Section A to produce a schedule of private sectors as part of the process of policy development employment history in industrial disease claims in and delivery.As was the case with previous Administrations, response to (a) urgent and (b) non-urgent requests. it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of [44291] all such meetings and discussions. Mr Gauke: Requests for employment history schedules Departmental Billing relating to customers suffering from mesothelioma are categorised as ‘urgent’. HMRC’s National Insurance Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Contributions and Employer Office (NIC&EO) issues Exchequer what proportion of invoices from suppliers schedules for these cases within 10 working days of his Department paid within 10 days of receipt in receipt. January and February 2011. [45067] All other requests for employment histories received by NIC&EO ‘Special Section A’are routinely dealt with Justine Greening: The Department aims to pay at on a ‘first in first out’ basis. The current customer least 80% of invoices within five working days, the waiting time (oldest request waiting to be processed) is 961W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 962W

89 days. However, NIC&EO management are looking (3) how many special severance payments have been to improve the provision of employment histories and reported to his Department in total by NHS will soon trial a revised process that is expected to Foundation Trusts in accordance with his improve response times for non-urgent requests. Department’s guidance in Annex 4.13 of Managing Public Money in each of the last three years. [44901] Mr Anderson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many requests for schedules of Danny Alexander: This information could be provided employment history from HM Revenue and Customs’ only at disproportionate cost. The Treasury’s role is to National Insurance Contributions Office Special ensure that individual special severance payments are Section A are outstanding in industrial disease claims. fully justified in terms of value for money and legal risk. [44292] Total payments across the NHS are a matter for the Secretary of State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Mr Gauke: HMRC’s National Insurance Contributions Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley). and Employer Office (NIC&EO) has 18,400 requests on hand to be processed. Requests for employment histories have increased by 30% on this time last year, but NIC&EO Private Finance Initiative has redeployed resources to respond to the increased demand. Jesse Norman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the capital value was of private Members: Correspondence finance initiative agreements signed by the Government in each year from 1992 to 2010. [44124] Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he plans to reply to the letter from the Danny Alexander: Lists of signed and in procurement hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North of 25 private finance initiative (PFI) projects can be found on January 2011 on the future funding arrangements of HM Treasury’s website at: the Northern Rock Foundation. [44243] http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ppp_pfi_stats.htm Mr Hoban: I have replied to the hon. Member. For each PFI project, this list details the project name, the capital value, the constituency, the procuring Mortgages: Misrepresentation authority and whether it is on or off balance sheet, as used by the ONS in calculating public sector net debt. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will take steps to assist individuals who These data are currently being updated and revised have been mis-sold mortgage endowment policies to data will be published at Budget 2011. achieve legal redress for their losses. [44913] The following table details the capital value of projects which reached financial close within the years requested. Mr Hoban: The Financial Services Authority (FSA) requires firms to explain the risks associated with investment Sum of capital value for projects products, such as mortgage endowment policies, when Calendar year reaching financial close (£ million)1 these products are sold. 1992 485 If individuals do not feel the risks were explained 1993 0 properly to them, in the first instance they should 1994 0 complain to the company through which they bought 1995 68 the product. This should be done as soon as possible 1996 1,064 after the individual decides they have cause for complaint. 1997 1,909 If the individual is not satisfied with the firm’s response, 1998 2,413 they may consider referring the complaint to the Financial 1999 2,519 Ombudsman Service (FOS). The Government are unable 2000 3,562 to intervene in or advise on individual cases. 2001 2,248 2002 28,005 NHS: Redundancy Pay 2003 4,284 2004 3,894 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Chancellor of the 2005 3,500 Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 28 February 2006 7,034 2011, Official Report, column 38W, and to the answer 2007 5,517 of 10 February 2011, Official Report, columns 428- 2008 4,357 30W, on NHS: redundancy pay (1) how many special 2009 4,710 severance payments were reported to his Department 20103 3615 by each NHS Foundation Trust in accordance with his 1 This summary table was produced using information gathered by HM Treasury during a data collection exercise in January and February 2010. This information Department’s guidance in Annex 4.13 of Managing is provided by the Departments that own/sponsor the projects, and is not Public Money in each of the last three years; and what audited by HM Treasury. These figures are for projects which were classified as the monetary value was of such payments in each case; PFI projects at Budget 2010. These figures do not include eight projects for which incomplete information was provided. [44899] 2 This figure includes over £5.5 billion for a Transport for London project. (2) what the total monetary value was of special Although this was considered to be a PFI at financial close, subsequent changes mean that the Department for Transport no longer consider this to be a PFI. It severance payments made by NHS Foundation Trusts is included here for consistency because this recategorisation occurred following and reported to his Department in accordance with its Budget 2010. guidance in Annex 4.13 of Managing Public Money in 3 Data for 2010 is incomplete and is currently being updated. This will be published around Budget 2011. each of the last three years; [44900] 963W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 964W

Tax Allowances: Married People research centre are summarised in its report ‘Making Migration Work for Development’ (2010). Remittances Nicky Morgan: To ask the Chancellor of the can also contribute to poverty reduction. A joint study Exchequer what progress he has made on the by DFID and the United Nations, ‘Impact of Remittances introduction of transferable tax allowances for married on Poverty’ (2009) found that a 10% rise in remittances couples. [44290] reduced the poverty headcount ratio by 3.9% in developing countries where remittances account for more than Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I 5.0% of gross domestic product. gave the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) on 9 June 2010, Official Report, column 189W. Electoral Reform Services Taxation: Banks Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer International Development what the monetary value what sanctions will apply if major banks do not was of contracts his Department placed with Electoral comply with his Department’s new code of practice on Reform Services Ltd in each year since 2005. [44221] taxation. [42281] Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Mr Hoban: As at the 17 October 2010, only four out Development (DFID) has not contracted with the Electoral of the top 15 banks had adopted the code since its Reform International Services since 2007. Information introduction in 2009. All of the top 15 have now adopted for previous years cannot be provided without incurring the code. disproportionate cost. The Government expect banks to comply with the International Assistance spirit as well as the letter of the law and not to engage in avoidance. Having adopted the code, banks are responsible for adhering to it. Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development (1) what recent assessment HM Revenue and Customs will monitor the effectiveness he has made of progress towards the Millennium of the code as part of its large business strategy. Development Goal to eradicate extreme poverty and hunger; [44131] INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (2) what recent assessment he has made of progress towards the Millennium Development Goal to achieve Departmental Manpower universal primary education; [44132] Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) what recent assessment he has made of the UK’s International Development how many staff in his contribution to progress towards reaching the Department were in the civil service redeployment pool Millennium Development Goals; [44133] on the latest date for which figures are available; and (4) what recent assessment he has made of progress how many of these had been in the redeployment pool towards the Millennium Development Goal to develop for more than six months at that date. [44356] a global partnership for development; [44134] (5) what recent assessment he has made of progress Mr O’Brien: As at 4 March 2011, the Department for towards the Millennium Development Goal to ensure International Development (DFID) had 35 members of environmental sustainability; [44135] staff receiving redeployment support to mitigate the (6) what recent assessment he has made of progress risk of redundancy. All 35 continue to be fully engaged towards the Millennium Development Goal to combat in DFID work. Of these, eight have been receiving HIV and AIDS, malaria and other diseases; [44136] redeployment support for more than six months. (7) what recent assessment he has made of progress Developing Countries: Remittances towards the Millennium Development Goal to help improve maternal health; [44138] Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what assessment he has (8) what recent assessment he has made of progress made of the economic effects of remittances from the towards the Millennium Development Goal to reduce UK on developing countries receiving the largest child mortality; [44139] amounts of such remittances. [44959] (9) what recent assessment he has made of progress towards the Millennium Development Goal to Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to promote gender equality and empower women. [44140] the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) 12 January 2011, Official Report, column 319W. Due to Mr O’Brien: An assessment of progress towards each data quality issues we cannot identify flows of remittances of the Millennium Development Goals was published from the UK to developing countries and therefore in the Department for International Development’s cannot isolate their specific economic impact. (DFID’s) Annual Report in July 2010. A further assessment However, research by the DFID-funded Development of progress will be published in this year’s Annual Research Centre on Migration, Globalisation and Poverty Report in line with the International Development at the University of Sussex shows that remittances can (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006. boost growth in developing countries by financing investment, consumption and production growth. Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Remittances are a relatively stable source of foreign International Development what steps he is taking to exchange earnings and provide support to the balance help ensure that the Millennium Development Goals of payments. Findings from six years of research by the are achieved. [44137] 965W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 966W

Mr O’Brien: The Department for international of Yemenicitizens; and. improving the business environment Development (DFID) has conducted two thorough reviews to create more wealth and jobs. Through our programme of the UK’s bilateral and multilateral aid programmes of support, we aim to help address the most immediate to determine how we can accelerate progress towards causes of poverty, conflict and instability, and to create the Millennium Development Goals and achieve maximum a more favourable environment for a sustained improvement value for money for the UK taxpayer. The outcomes of in Yemen’s development and stability. However, we are these reviews were presented to the House by the Secretary keeping our programme plans under constant review in of State for International Development, my right hon. the light of current events within Yemen. Friend, on 1 March 2011, Official Report, columns 167-169. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for In December 2010 DFID launched two new Frameworks International Development how much (a) direct aid for Results to tackle malaria and prevent deaths during and (b) multilateral aid his Department plans to pregnancy and childbirth. They set out how British aid distribute to Yemen in 2011-12. [44256] money will deliver the coalition government’s commitment to help halve malaria deaths in at least 10 high burden Mr O’Brien: The Department for International countries in Africa and Asia and save the lives of at Development (DFID) will provide up to £65 million in least 50,000 women and 250,000 newborns. Full details bilateral aid to Yemen in financial year 2011-12. This is are available on the DFID website. dependent on the Government of Yemen’s commitment to reform. As with other bilateral country programmes, Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for part of this money will be used to fund programmes run International Development what recent discussions he by multilateral agencies in country. It is not possible yet has had with his UN counterparts on international aid to say what share of DFID’s core funding to multilateral and development. [44158] agencies will be allocated to Yemen in 2011-12.

Mr O’Brien: Department for International Development Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for (DFID) Ministers discuss international aid and International Development whether his Department development issues regularly with UN counterparts. plans to provide aid assistance to any additional The most recent discussion was with the UN Secretary- projects in Yemen following the unrest in that country. General, Ban Ki Moon, on 5 March 2011, and focused [44257] upon the situation in Libya. Mr O’Brien: We are monitoring the situation in Yemen Rwanda: Health Services closely and will keep our programme plans, in respect of both development and humanitarian support, under Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for regular review in light of current events within Yemen. International Development what recent assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness of the integration of maternal health services and SCOTLAND tuberculosis services in Rwanda; and what mechanism his Department has put in place to share best practice RAF Kinloss on integration of such services. [45174] Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Scotland what discussions he had with the Secretary of Development (DFID) has not carried out an assessment State for Work and Pensions on the handling of specifically on the effectiveness of the integration of redundancies at RAF Kinloss when the base ceases maternal health services and tuberculosis services in operational activity at the end of May 2011. [44126] Rwanda. The performance of the health sector as a whole is regularly assessed jointly by the Government Michael Moore: Details of the RAF redundancy of Rwanda and donors—most recently at the Joint process and the fields for Tranche 1 of those redundancies Health Sector Review of September 2010. The Government have been published; the first RAF personnel compulsory of Rwanda itself is very proactive in disseminating its redundancies will not take effect until March 2012 for best practice to other developing country governments applicants and September 2012 for non-applicants, and and has, for example, recently done so with respect to will be drawn from across the RAF, not just Kinloss. I results-based health financing and community health am in regular contact with Cabinet colleagues to contribute insurance. to the work currently ongoing to analyse implications for all Defence personnel in Scotland affected by the Yemen: Overseas Aid Strategic Defence and Security Review.

Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Billing International Development what plans his Department has in respect of distribution of aid to Yemen in Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011-12. [44255] Scotland what proportion of invoices from suppliers his Department paid within 10 days of receipt in Mr O’Brien: The Department for International January and February 2011. [45099] Development (DFID) plans to focus its support on improving access to basic services, such as health, education David Mundell: The Scotland Office paid 100% of its and water; building the capacity of police and justice January and February 2011 invoices within 10 days of services to better understand and respond to the needs receipt. 967W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 968W

Departmental Food Strategic Defence and Security Review

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for he will estimate the proportion of the seafood procured Scotland what discussions he had in February 2011 for his Department that (a) was on the Marine with the Secretary of State for Defence regarding the Conservation Society’s list of fish to avoid and (b) implementation of the Strategic Defence and Security complied with sustainability standards indicated by Review and the future of Royal Air Force bases in inclusion in either the Marine Conservation Society’s Scotland. [44125] list of fish to eat or by the list of fish species certified by the Marine Stewardship Council in (i) 2010 and (ii) Michael Moore: I met the Secretary of State for 2011 to date. [45038] Defence and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in February 2011 and discussed the Strategic Defence and David Mundell: The Scotland Office has no in-house Security Review and matters affecting Scotland. catering facilities and the provision of food is generally Visits: Edinburgh limited to catering associated with official hospitality and is supplied by external contractors. The Office does Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for not separately record the purchase of seafood. Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the Electoral Reform Services Ltd Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on the arrangements for his visit to Edinburgh on Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for 8 June 2011. [43496] Scotland what the monetary value was of contracts his David Mundell: I understand that the Secretary of Department placed with Electoral Reform Services Ltd State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. in each year since 2005. [44224] Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), visited Edinburgh on 1 June 2010. The Secretary of David Mundell: The Scotland Office has not placed State for Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member any contracts with the Electoral Reform Services in any for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Michael Moore) year since 2005. and I have had no recent discussions with him about Military Assistance that visit.

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent assessment he has made of his ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Department’s priorities in respect of (a) military assistance to civil powers in Scotland and (b) civil Biomass contingencies and emergency powers in Scotland; and if he will make a statement. [44104] Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of David Mundell: Military assistance to the civil powers 20 January 2011, Official Report, column 945W, on in the United Kingdom is regulated by common law renewable energy: wood, what indicators he plans to and by statute and requires the authorisation of Defence use to ascertain the sustainability of woody biomass. Ministers. Emergency powers are a reserved matter [42843] under the Scotland Act 1998. Many aspects of the Gregory Barker: Our earlier answer of 20 January management of civil contingencies are devolved to the 2011 set out in brief the sustainability criteria we are Scottish Parliament. The Scotland Office works with introducing for the use of solid biomass, including other Government Departments, with the Scottish woody biomass, to generate electricity under the renewables Government, and with other bodies as appropriate, to obligation (RO) from April this year. ensure that there is an appropriate response to any civil contingencies or emergencies in Scotland. For instance, These criteria are a minimum greenhouse gas during the period of inclement weather in December emissions saving of 60% compared to fossil fuel 2010, I worked with Defence Ministers to ensure that assessed across a lifecycle that considers the emissions military assistance was provided to civil powers. associated with cultivation, processing and transport of the biomass, together with general restrictions on the Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for use of materials from land important on carbon or Scotland when he last met the Minister for Justice in biodiversity grounds. Such land includes primary forest, the Scottish Executive to discuss (a) military peatland and wetland. assistance to civil powers in Scotland and (b) civil We are also continuing with the existing requirement contingencies and emergency powers in Scotland; and for operators to report on a range of matters relating to if he will make a statement. [44105] the biomass used to the best of their knowledge and belief. These matters include the mass or volume of the David Mundell: Scotland Office Ministers and officials biomass used, its type and form, the country of origin and other UK Government Ministers and officials are or purchase, and whether the biomass is an energy crop, in regular contact with the Scottish Ministers and their by-product of a process or meets an environmental officials to ensure that the planning for and response to accreditation scheme. The same set of sustainability any civil contingencies in Scotland and across the UK is criteria will be applied to the use of UK and imported co-ordinated properly within the framework of the solid biomass, and to both new and existing plants. The devolution settlement. Emergency powers are a reserved sustainability criteria will not apply to solid biomass matter under the Scotland Act 1998. that is waste or wholly derived from waste. 969W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 970W

As set out in our earlier answer, we intend, following Gregory Barker: Local carbon budgets have been a transition phase where solid biomass plants over raised on a number of occasions as the Energy Bill 50 kilowatts will be required to report on their performance passed through the House of Lords. As my noble against these criteria, that from April 2013 solid biomass Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Lord electricity plants of one megawatt and above will be Marland) noted in the Energy Bill debate in the House required to meet these criteria in order to receive support of Lords, 2 March 2011, Official Report, House of under the RO. Lords, columns 1067-1119, we have given full consideration to these issues and we have determined that the best way Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for forward is co-operation, not by imposing top down Energy and Climate Change (1) pursuant to the answer carbon budgets on local authorities. of 20 January 2011, Official Report, column 945W, on In support of this cooperative approach, the Secretary renewable energy: wood, how the information yielded of State for Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. from sustainability criteria reports will be used to Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) hopes assess sustainability; and what assessment he has made to shortly sign a memorandum of understanding with of the likely contribution of such implementation to the Local Government Group on how my department understanding biomass use; [42844] and local authorities will work together to reduce carbon (2) pursuant to the answer of 20 January 2011, emissions at a local level. This will be a voluntary Official Report, column 945W, on renewable energy: approach, building on the Nottingham Declaration, wood, what timetable he has set for the assessment of but with scrutiny by the people local authorities serve. the sustainability criteria for (a) wood and (b) other solid biomass; and if he will make a statement. [42845] Gregory Barker: We are introducing mandatory reporting Departmental Billing on performance against the sustainability criteria under the renewables obligation (RO) from April this year for Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for operators using wood and other solid biomass, above Energy and Climate Change what proportion of 50 kilowatts capacity. The first reports would be due to invoices from suppliers his Department paid within be supplied to Ofgem by 31 May 2012, to cover the 10 days of receipt in January and February 2011. biomass used by a plant operator between 1 April 2011 [45081] and 31 March 2012. These reports would include performance against the land criteria, an assessment of Gregory Barker: Whitehall Departments are no longer the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions saving relative to required to report on 10 days and instead are required fossil fuel and information on the biomass used including to report on invoices paid within five days of being mass or volume, country of origin, type arid form. received. DECC has set itself a challenging target of These reports will enable Government, on an annual paying 80% of invoices within five days irrespective of basis, to assess performance against the sustainability the size of the supplier. The results for January and criteria for the use of wood and other solid biomass in February of 2011 were 88.7% and 93.9% respectively. electricity generation under the RO. We intend to formally link meeting the criteria with eligibility to receive RO support for operators of 1 megawatt capacity and above Energy Generation Infrastructure from April 2013. These reports will also provide Government with Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy valuable information on the availability and source of and Climate Change what assessment he has made of biomass being used for large-scale electricity generation the relative costs of energy generation infrastructure in the UK, the scope for growth of sustainable bio-electricity and energy efficiency measures designed to reduce in the UK and the potential effects on our wood industries. demand; and if he will make a statement. [43120] In addition, we believe that the introduction of sustainability criteria that are linked to eligibility for financial support Charles Hendry: An economic appraisal of the costs will provide a powerful driver for better understanding and benefits of an intervention, such as a policy to across the bioenergy supply-chain of the key levers, improve energy efficiency, is a mandatory part of impact such as reducing the use of road transport, that can assessments, and allows consideration of the relative deliver improved emissions savings. merits of different policy options. This must be carried Therefore, in the Government response to the out in line with HM Treasury’s Green Book and the consultation on the RO Order 2011, we announced supplementary guidance on the valuation of energy use DECC, Ofgem and the Environment Agency will jointly and greenhouse gas emissions for appraisal and evaluation develop an easy to use lifecycle tool to assess the GHG where policies have a significant impact on greenhouse emissions associated with bioenergy generation from gas emissions. the cultivation of the feedstock to processing and transport. Initial illustrative costs and potential energy demand We intend the tool will be made available online later reductions of the Green Deal energy efficiency policy this year. are outlined in the Green Deal impact assessment Carbon Budgets accompanying the Energy Bill in December 2010 http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/legislation/energybill/ Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for 1002-energy-bill-2011-ia-green-deal.pdf Energy and Climate Change what consideration he This estimated the average annual finance costs of gave to the merits of including in the Energy Bill energy efficiency measures to be £1.4 billion to £2.1 billion. provisions for the introduction of local carbon budgets. The annual energy saved as a result of these policies in [44630] 2020 is estimated to be: 971W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 972W

GWh Low High

Electricity -1596.572058 -2416.833186 Gas -16756.07948 -25286.44071 Fuel oil -751.383933 -1134.51274

Levelised cost estimates from Mott Macdonald (2010) are set out in the following tables (it should be noted that give average generation cost per megawatt-hour for that for the purposes of presentation, the table only new build plants, in the main large-scale electricity gives either ‘FOAK’ (first-of-a-kind) prices or ‘NOAK’ generation technologies, in the UK at current engineering, (nth-of-a-kind) prices for each technology). procurement and construction (EPC) contract prices

Case 1: 10% discount rate, 2009 project start at today’s EPC prices, with mixed FOAK/NOAK £/MWh Coal Gas CCGT ASC Coal Coal IGCC with Offshore Offshore Nuclear Levelised Gas with CCS ASC with CCS IGCC CCS Onshore wind wind R3 PWR cost CCGT (FOAK) Coal (FOAK) (FOAK) (FOAK) wind (FOAK) (FOAK) (FOAK)

Capital 12.4 29.8 33.4 74.1 61.7 82.0 79.2 124.1 144.6 77.3 Costs Fixed 3.7 7.7 8.6 18.6 9.7 17.7 14.6 36.7 45.8 12.2 operating costs Variable 2.3 3.6 2.2 4.7 3.4 4.6 — — — 2.1 operating costs Fuel Costs 46.9 65.0 19.9 28.7 20.3 28.3 — — — 5.3 Carbon 15.1 2.1 40.3 6.5 39.6 5.5 — — — —- Costs Decomm ———————— —2.1 and waste fund

CO2 — 4.3 — 9.6 — 9.5 — — — — transport and storage Steam ———————— —— Revenue Total 80.3 112.5 104.5 142.1 134.6 147.6 93.9 160.9 190.5 99.0 levelised cost Source: Mott Macdonald (2010), UK Electricity Generation Costs Update, available at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Statistics/Projections/71-uk-electricity-generation-costs-update-.pdf

As new technologies are deployed it is likely that started in 2017 with the assumption that all technologies costs will fall due to learning. The second table, as have reached ‘nth-of-a-kind’ status. follows, sets out the estimated levelised costs for projects

Case 5: 10% discount rate, 2017 start at projected EPC prices, all NOAK £/MWh Gas ASC Coal Gas CCGT ASC Coal with Coal IGCC Onshore Offshore Offshore Nuclear Levelised cost CCGT with CCS Coal CCS IGCC with CCS wind wind wind R3 PWR

Capital Costs 11.2 20.7 28.7 47.8 33.7 46.5 71.7 89.4 97,0 49.6 Fixed 3.7 6.0 8.6 13.8 8.0 12.3 — 23.0 30.9 9.1 operating costs Variable 2.3 3.6 2.2 3.7 2.7 3.6 — — — 1.8 operating costs Fuel Costs 49.8 64.7 19.9 27.6 19.6 27.2 — — — 5.2 Carbon 29.64.173.811.472.010.0———— Costs Decomm and —————————2.1 waste fund

CO2 —3.5—7.6—7.5———— transport and storage Steam —————————— Revenue 973W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 974W

Case 5: 10% discount rate, 2017 start at projected EPC prices, all NOAK £/MWh Gas ASC Coal Gas CCGT ASC Coal with Coal IGCC Onshore Offshore Offshore Nuclear Levelised cost CCGT with CCS Coal CCS IGCC with CCS wind wind wind R3 PWR

Total 96.5 102.6 133.2 111.9 136.0 107.1 86.3 112.4 127.9 67.8 levelised cost Source: Mott Macdonald (2010, UK Electricity Generation Costs Update, available at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Statistics/Projections/71-uk-electricity-generation-costs-update-.pdf

It should be noted that the estimates of levelised costs set by the 2009 amending directive will reduce emissions for different types of electricity generation are highly from industry, covered by the scheme, by 21% (on 2005 sensitive to the assumptions used for capital costs, fuel levels) in 2020. and EU ETS allowance prices, operating costs, load factor, and other drivers. Meaning that there is significant Nuclear Installations: Accidents uncertainty around these estimates. Energy: Hastings Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what (a) coolant leaks and (b) Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for fires have been recorded at each UK nuclear Energy and Climate Change how many households in installation in each of the last five years. [45017] the Hastings Borough Council area did not have a mains supply of (a) electricity and (b) gas in the latest Charles Hendry: The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate of the Health and Safety Executive (HSE/NII) screens period for which figures are available. [45251] incident reports made by licensees to identify those Charles Hendry: Data on the number of households which have had the potential to challenge a nuclear by local authority without an electricity or gas mains safety system. A search of the raw input data for such supply are not available. screening from January 2005 to the end of December 2010 has been undertaken for details of leaks and fires An estimate of the number of households off the gas at nuclear installations. grid at Government Office region can be derived using data from the English House Survey (EHS), produced A ‘coolant leak’ has been interpreted as being a loss by DCLG. In 2008, based on the EHS, there were of coolant, including clean coolant, from an item of around 467,000 households in the south-east that did plant into the working environment of the licensed site. not have a mains gas connection. The number of households Coolant itself has been interpreted as being water, without a mains electricity connection is too small to be carbon dioxide or hydrogen on a power station, and reliably estimated from a sample survey such as the water elsewhere. EHS. A ‘fire’ has been interpreted as being a situation where ignition of material has taken place on the licensed Environment Protection site or instances of smouldering where such ignition could not reasonably be ruled out given the information Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for in the record. Energy and Climate Change whether his Department’s Coolant leaks definition of zero carbon applies to technologies which Date Installation Incident reduce greenhouse gas emissions by (a) 50 per cent., (b) 60 per cent., (c) 70 per cent., (d) 80 per cent., (e) 2005 90 per cent., and (f) 100 per cent. [44333] 1 January Heysham 2 Steam leak on Turbine Generator 7 5 February Hinkley Point B Carbon dioxide leak from tank Grant Shapps: I have been asked to reply. 19 February Hinkley Point B Carbon dioxide leak from tank The Government have recently received a report from 25 February Torness Carbon dioxide leak through in-service inspection penetration the independent Zero Carbon Hub on the levels of 15 March Torness Carbon dioxide leak from ring main reductions in carbon emissions which can be achieved 25 June Dungeness A Carbon dioxide leak from main CO plant by technologies to be installed on or as part of a house 2 4 July Sellafield Damp patch discovered adjacent to B30 as part of meeting the zero carbon standard. The pond wall Government are considering this report and we will set 25 July Oldbury Steam leak through thermocouple pocket out our conclusions in due course. of Boiler 4 on Reactor 1 4 August Hinkley Point B Carbon dioxide leak from vaporiser valve EU Emissions Trading Scheme 30 October Dungeness A Carbon dioxide leak through failed isolation valve to pressure gauge Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what recent assessment 2006 he has made of the effectiveness of the EU Emissions 30 January Sellafield Leak of dosed cooling water from B832 Trading Scheme; and if he will make a statement. cooling tower [44582] 18 February Sellafield Leak of pond water through expansion joint above the stainless steel seal in B310 AGR storage pond Gregory Barker: The European Union emissions trading 24 March Hunterston B Carbon dioxide leak in pipe trench system continues to provide an effective means of reducing 11 September Hinkley point B Carbon dioxide leak from supply pump emissions from heavy industry across the EU. The cap 975W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 976W

Coolant leaks Fire Date Installation Incident Date Site Incident

23 September Hartlepool Alternator hydrogen coolant leak 14 July Heysham 2 Fire in bearing of fuel handling plant 26 September Hartlepool Fracture of emergency cooling water main extract fan 2 October Dungeness B Auxiliary cooling water pipe work leak 16 September Torness Fire in purge air compressor no. 2 15 October Sizewell A Steam leak from Turbine Alternator 1 31 October Dungeness A Fire in bulk group 4 LF power supply 18 November Heysham 2 Steam leak from Reactor 7 2006 2007 23 January Sellafield Smoking bitumen seal around pipe on Combined Heat and Power Plant turbine 7 January Sizewell A Fracture of pond recirculating water system pipe work 24 March Dounreay Hydrogen ignition during waste cutting operation in Prototype Fast Reactor 18 January Sellafield Waste Vitrification Plant electrical inductor cooling water leak 21 April Springfields Uranium shredder fire in building 338 1 March Hinkley Point B Carbon dioxide leak outside plant room 23 October Heysham 2 Smouldering leak management tray beside hot turbine reheat pipe work 26 March Dungeness B Carbon dioxide leak in reactor basement 23 December Burghfield Smouldering cable in plant room 1 June Hunterston B Leak from condensate booster pump 2 June Heysham 2 Leak in low pressure feed heater pipe work 2007 18 July Dungeness B Leak of tritiated water identified 1 February Hinkley Point B Fire in bund of gas circulator lube system 19 September Hartlepool Leak of pressure vessel cooling water 2 June Hunterston B Bearing fire on turbo generator 7 identified on boiler closure unit 12 August Heysham 2 Bearing fire in cooling water pump 26 September Dungeness B Carbon dioxide leak from storage tank 28 September Hunterston B Steam leaks in high pressure gland pipe work 2008 27 October Oldbury Carbon dioxide leak from fuelling machine 7 January Dounreay Fire in office suite of D1208 13 March GE Healthcare Fire in inactive recycling plant 2008 15 June Rolls Royce Fire in glove box Manufacturing 19 February Oldbury Carbon dioxide leak from storage tank 2 December Hartlepool Aerosol can fire 20 February Torness Carbon dioxide leak from gas bypass 3 December Trawsfynydd convector heater fire in ponds office plant 26 June Heysham 2 Steam leak in gland steam drain line 26 July Heysham 1 Carbon dioxide leak from storage tank 2009 7 October Wylfa Carbon dioxide leak from storage tank 12 March Heysham 1 Lagging smoke/fire 23 December Torness Carbon dioxide leak from valve in the 15 March GE Healthcare Fire in services spine duct fuel machine standby CO2 coolant supply. 31 March Barrow Fire on the casing of Astute Boat 2 during welding/grinding operations 18 April Barrow Fire on the bridge fin of Astute Boat I 2009 29 April Oldbury Smoking air circuit breaker 24 April Hartlepool Hydrogen leak from Unit 2 alternator 18 May Wylfa Fire in Turbine alternator frame 22 July Sellafield Extract fan bearing fire 26 May Heysham 1 Turbine cooling water leak 23November Dungeness B Boiler annex hydraulic fluid caught fire 28 May Hinkley Point B Pressure vessel cooling water leak from Reactor 4 sump 25 June Heysham 2 Loss of Hydrogen from turbo alternator 2010 8 July Torness Leak from spent fuel pond cooling water 28 May Dounreay Small in cell fire of sodium residues system 2 July Sizewell B Fire in ductwork in heating and ventilation 9 December Sellafield Fuel pond chiller water leakage building 21 December Heysham 1 Back up cooling water leak soon after 4 July Aldermaston Solvent fire minor bums to one person start up 2 August Oldbury Lagging fire near turbo alternator 22 September Sizewell B Condensate pump fire 2010 30 September Wylfa Smouldering electrical contactor in Turbine Hall 22 January Sellafield Leakage of cooling water to active storage tanks 25 October Hinkley Point B Fire in circulator workshop 7 June Dungeness B Gland steam leak after start up 8 December Heysham 2 Bearing failure causing smoke in services building 26 October Heysham 1 Small water leak from buffer store drain line 8 November Heysham 1 Emergency cooling water pipe failure and Power Stations: Greenhouse Gas Emissions leak Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Fire Energy and Climate Change what consideration he Date Site Incident gave to the inclusion in the Energy Bill of provision for a power to make regulations to improve emissions 2005 performance standards for coal and gas-fired power 4 February Heysham 1 Smouldering lagging on turbine stations. [44628] 8 March Heysham 2 Fire on reactor basement sump pump 22 April Harwell Capacitor fire in building 459 Charles Hendry: The Government committed to an 22 June Torness Variable frequency output transformer Emissions Performance Standard in the Coalition fire programme for government and is taking this forward 30 June Barrow Portacabin fire as part of the wider package of reforms in the Electricity 977W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 978W

Market Reform project and consultation. The consultation Charles Hendry: Applications for funds to support has sought views on the proposed options for an EPS the establishment of offshore wind manufacturing and the Government will publish its response in a White infrastructure at port sites in assisted areas in England Paper later this year. must be made through the Grant for Business Investment scheme. Bids for support under this scheme are made Single Key Low Carbon Investment Fund on a confidential basis. Information on grant offers for sums greater than £75,000 is normally published following Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for the payment of the first instalment of the grant, including Energy and Climate Change what proportion of the the name and location of the recipient of the grant and Single Key Low Carbon Investment Fund will be spent the size of the grant offered. on activity that was previously funded by the Marine Renewables Deployment Fund. [44771] HEALTH Gregory Barker: The single key low carbon investment funding was made available in Budget 2009 for financial Cancer Services: Women years 2009-10 and 2010-11. It did not duplicate the Marine Renewables Deployment Fund, but it has supported 19. Jane Ellison: To ask the Secretary of State for marine technology development, i.e. £22.5 million over Health what steps he is taking to improve NHS cancer the two years on the Marine Renewable Proving Fund. services for women. [44497] Warm Front Scheme 21. Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to improve NHS cancer Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for services for women. [44499] Energy and Climate Change what recent assessment he 22. Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Secretary of State has made of the average time taken to pay grants under for Health what steps he is taking to improve NHS the Warm Front scheme. [44754] cancer services for women. [44500] Gregory Barker: The Warm Front scheme installs Paul Burstow: Our cancer strategy sets out plans to insulation and heating measures for eligible applicants improve cancer services for all, including women. We up to a grant maximum of £3,500 or £6,000 where oil are extending and modernising breast and cervical screening central heating is recommended. The grant is not paid and improving access to testing for ovarian cancer. directly to the applicant. The average time taken to NICE are developing quality standards on breast and install measures under the scheme is shown in the ovarian cancer, and we will collect data on secondary following table: breast cancer. 2010-111 Local Democratic Accountability Days

Average waiting times for insulation installations recorded 18 20. Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for in working days Health what progress he is making in introducing local Average waiting times for heating installations recorded 40 democratic accountability for NHS services. [44498] in working days 1Up to 31 January 2011 Paul Burstow: We have heard from a huge number of Wind Power: Manufacturing Industries councils and their partners who are pressing ahead with establishing shadow health and well-being boards. Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State Councillors, clinicians, and local communities have told for Energy and Climate Change when he expects to us that by working together through the boards they announce the first successful bidders for his can and will improve health and care outcomes for local Department’s programme to support the establishment communities. of offshore wind manufacturing at port sites. [44305] Accident and Emergency Departments: Bexley

Charles Hendry: The timing of any announcements Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health will depend upon when decisions are made to award what information his Department holds on the number funding. The funding, which is available from 1 April of blue light emergency cases arising in the London 2011 to 31 March 2015, requires an application to be borough of Bexley which were taken to (a) Queen made under the Grant for Business Investment scheme, Mary’s hospital, Sidcup, (b) Queen Elizabeth hospital, which applies to assisted areas in England. Applications Woolwich and (c) Darent Valley hospital, Dartford in for support under this scheme are made on a confidential the last three years for which figures are available. basis and the case is considered by the independent [44128] Industrial Development Advisory Board which will submit advice to DECC Ministers, who will make the decisions Mr Simon Burns: Ambulance trusts are asked to on funding. report on the total number of emergency patient journeys to Type one and Type two accident and Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State emergency (A&E) destinations, this information is reported for Energy and Climate Change how many for bids via the KA34 as part of the annual ambulance data for his Department’s programme to support the collection. establishment of offshore wind manufacturing at port Type one A and E services are described as a consultant- sites his Department has received from each region of led 24 hour service with full resuscitation facilities. Type England to date; and what the monetary value is of two A and E services are a consultant-led single specialty each. [44306] accident and emergency service (e.g. ophthalmology, 979W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 980W dental). However, the KA34 data collection will not Royal Surrey County Hospital provide a split in terms of which hospital patients were Royal London-Barts and the London NHS Trust taken to. William Harvey Hospital, Ashford The KA34 data collection can be viewed on the NHS King’s College Hospital Foundation Trust Information Centre website at: Leatherhead Central Surrey Health Community Hospital www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/audits-and- Since May 2010, the Minister of State (Paul Burstow) performance/ambulance has visited: St Charles Hospital, Central and North West London NHS Departmental Domestic Visits Foundation Trust The Royal Marsden Hospital Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Northampton General Hospital for Health which NHS hospitals (a) he and (b) each Broadmoor Hospital West London Mental Health NHS Trust other Minister in his Department has visited since May The Christie Hospital NHS Foundation Trust 2010. [44321] The Royal Liverpool University Hospitals NHS Trust Mr Simon Burns: The requested information is shown Royal Oldham Hospital as follows: University Hospital Bristol NHS Foundation Trust Since May 2010, the Secretary of State for Health Since May 2010, the Minister of State (Mr Burns) has (Mr Lansley) has visited: visited: Leeds General Infirmary Newark Hospital, Sherwood Forest Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust Enfield Hospital Ipswich Hospital NHS Trust Bridlington and District Hospital Great Ormond Street for Children NHS Trust Scarborough District General Hospital Russells Hall Hospital, Dudley Group of Hospitals NHS Basingstoke and North Hampshire Hospital Foundation Trust Burnley General Hospital Guy’s and St Thomas Hospital NHS Trust Alder Hey Children’s Hospital Birmingham and Solihull Mental Health NHS Foundation The Royal Marsden Foundation Trust Trust Milton Keynes Hospital Foundation Liverpool Women’s NHS Foundation Trust Stafford Hospital Kings College Hospital NHS Foundation Trust Whiston Hospital, St Helens and Knowsley Teaching Hospitals Ministers may have visited hospital premises to attend NHS Trust particular events but these were not specified hospital Fairfield Independent Hospital visits and therefore have not been included in this Liverpool Broadgreen University Hospital answer. Royal Sussex Country Hospital Whitehaven and West Cumberland Hospital Departmental Manpower Bristol Hospital University College London Hospital Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many staff in his Department were in the Glenfield Hospital, Leicester civil service redeployment pool on the latest date for Maidstone Hospital which figures are available; and how many of these had Queen Mary’s Hospital Sidcup been in the redeployment pool for more than six Chelsea and Westminster months at that date. [44351] Kings College Hospital Hillingdon Hospital Mr Simon Burns: The information about the numbers Queen Elizabeth Hospital of permanent departmental staff by grade who are Guys and St Thomas’s Hospital displaced and in the redeployment pool as of 2 March 2011 is presented in the following table. The table also Sheffield Children’s Hospital shows numbers who have been displaced and in the St Bartholomew’s Hospital redeployment pool for over six months. Colchester General Hospital These staff are also able to access posts from within Since May 2010, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of the wider civil service and have priority access to advertised State (Earl Howe) has visited: roles on the civil service website, which is dedicated Moorfields Eye Hospital NHS Foundation Trust solely for surplus staff who are permanent civil servants. Worcestershire Royal Hospital, Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust Total number of Total number of persons displaced persons in the Barnet hospital, Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust in the redeployment pool redeployment pool over Royal Brompton and Harefield NHS Foundation Trust Grade on 2 March 2011 six months Hammersmith Hospital, Imperial College Healthcare NHS SCS 1— 1— Trust Grade 6 1— 1— Since May 2010, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of Grade 7 1— 1— State for Health (Anne Milton) has visited: Senior Executive 1— 1— Officer University Hospital, Lewisham Higher Executive 1—0 Guys and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust Officer 981W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 982W

Mr Simon Burns: As part of its general aim to seek Total number of Total number of persons displaced persons in the efficiency savings to release funding to front line services in the redeployment pool redeployment pool over the Department is looking to achieve value for money Grade on 2 March 2011 six months in designing the delivery of its functions and operations. Executive Officer 1—0This includes reviewing options for outsourcing when Administrative 00evaluating best value. Officer Total 20 8 Departmental Regulation 1 Five or less Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Procurement Health how many regulations sponsored by his Department have been (a) introduced and (b) revoked Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State since 24 November 2010. [44363] for Health whether he plans to contract out any services from his Department; and if he will make a Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is in the statement. [44325] following tables.

Statutory instruments introduced before Parliament for the period 24 November 2010 to 2 March 2011 SI title Made Laid Coming into force SI number Comment

The Health Service Branded 18 November 2010 24 November 2010 1 January 2011 2010/2798 Medicines (Control of Prices and Supply of Information) Amendment Regulations 2010

The Flavourings in Food 23 November 2010 26 November 2010 20 January 2011 2010/2817 (England) Regulations 2010

The Medical Profession 24 November 2010 Laid in draft 26 July 1 January 2011 2010/2841 Statutory Instrument subject (Responsible Officers) 2010 Final Publication to the affirmative procedure Regulations 2010 1 December 2010 Commons Debate 3 November 2010 Commons Approval 8 November 2010 Lords Debate and Approval 23 November 2010

The Prescription Only 16 December 2010 20 December 2010 17 January 2011 2010/2998 Medicines (Human Use) Amendment Order

The Lewisham Hospital 7 December 2010 Not required to be laid 1 January 2011 2010/2918 National Health Service (Published 10 Trust (Change of Name) December 2010) Order

The Barnet, Enfield and 13 January 2011 Not required to be laid 1 February 2011 2011/57 Haringey Mental Health (Published 18 January National Health Service 2011) Trust (Establishment) Amendment Order 2011

The Official Feed and Food 25 January 2011 28 January 2011 1 April 2011 2011/136 Controls (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2011

The Food (Jelly Mini-Cups) 2 February 2011 8 February 2011 31 March 2011 2011/213 (Emergency Control) (England) (Revocation) Regulations 2011

The Plastic Materials and 5 February 2011 8 February 2011 1 March 2011 2011/231 Articles in Contact with Food (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2011

The North West London 5 February 2011 9 February 2011 1 April 2011 2011/238 Hospitals National Health Service Trust (Transfer of Trust Property) Order 2011 983W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 984W

Statutory instruments introduced before Parliament for the period 24 November 2010 to 2 March 2011 SI title Made Laid Coming into force SI number Comment

The Buckinghamshire 7 February 2011 11 February 2011 1 April 2011 2011/253 Primary Care Trust (Transfer of Trust Property) Order 2011

The Food Additives 7 February 2011 11 February 2011 31 March 2011 2011/258 (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2011

The National Health 8 February 2011 11 February 2011 1 April 2011 2011/269 Service (Quality Accounts) Amendment Regulations 2011

The Food Labelling 11 February 2011 17 February 2011 17 March 2011 2011/402 (Declaration of Allergens) (England) Regulations 2011

The Healthy Start Scheme 14 February 2011 17 February 2011 6 April 2011 2011/426 and Welfare Food (Amendment) Regulations 2011

The National Health 23 February 2011 28 February 2011 1 April 2011 2011/503 Service (Functions of Strategic Health Authorities and Primary Care Trusts and Administration Arrangements) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2011

The Personal Injuries (NHS 24 February 2011 2 March 2011 1 April 2011 2011/520 Charges) (Amounts) Amendment Regulations 2011

Statutory instruments revoked between 24 November 2010 and 2 March 2011 SI revoked By SI Made Laid Coming into force SI number

The Health Service The Health Service Branded 18 November 2010 24 November 2010 1 January 2011 2010/2798 Branded Medicines Medicines (Control of Prices and (Control of Prices and Supply of Information) Supply of Information) Amendment Regulations 2010 Amendment Regulations 2009 (2009/3030)

The Flavourings in Food The Flavourings in Food 23 November 2010 26 November 2010 20 January 2011 2010/2817 Regulations 1992 (SI 1992/ (England) Regulations 2010 1971) The Flavourings in Food (Amendment) Regulations 1994 (SI 1994/1486)

The Barnet, Enfield and The Barnet, Enfield and Haringey 13 January 2011 Not required to be laid 1 February 2011 2011/57 Haringey Mental Health Mental Health National Health (published 18 January National Health Service Service Trust (Establishment) 2011) Trust (Establishment) Amendment Order 2011 Order 2001 (Articles 6 and 7 only) (SI 2001/1330)

The Food (Jelly Mini- The Food (Jelly Mini-Cups) 2 February 2011 8 February 2011 31 March 2011 2011/213 Cups) (Emergency (Emergency Control) (England) Control) (England) (Revocation) Regulations 2011 Regulations 2009 (SI 2009/3230)

The Food Labelling The Food Labelling (Declaration 11 February 2011 17 February 2011 17 March 2011 2011/402 (Declaration of Allergens) of Allergens) (England) (England) Regulations Regulations 2011 2009 (SI 2009/2801) 985W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 986W

Disability Aids General Practitioners

Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State how many crutches were provided by the NHS in each for Health what the evidential basis was for his policy of the last two years in each primary care trust area; on limiting management expenditure for GP consortia; what the cost was of such provision in each such year and what plans he has for the future frequency of for each such trust; and how many crutches were reviews of the limit. [44320] returned after use in each such year in each such trust area. [44102] Mr Simon Burns: Our view is that management is both an overhead on front-line services and a critical Paul Burstow: This information is not held centrally. investment in ensuring that those services operate in an optimal manner, achieving better quality for patients Electoral Reform Services and better value for the taxpayer. Administration costs have increased dramatically in recent years and cost controls will be essential in reducing the total cost of Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for national health service administration from £5.1 billion Health what the monetary value was of contracts his in 2010-11 to £3.7 billion by 2014-15. Department placed with Electoral Reform Services in The expectation is that general practitioner consortia each year since 2005. [44219] will have an allowance for running costs that could be in the range of £25 to £35 per head of population by Mr Simon Burns: A search of the Department’s central 2014-15. We will not determine the exact amount until procurements database shows that the Department received further work has been undertaken with pathfinders. goods and services from Electoral Reform Services Ltd This work will explore the optimal balance between on only one occasion since 2005. An amount of ensuring sufficient investment in organisational sustainability £150 excluding VAT was receipted in the financial year with maximising resources for front-line services. Before 2008-09. this, during their development phase, the running costs will be locally agreed within the running cost envelope Food Standards Agency for each region. General Practitioners: Kent Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what roles and responsibilities were carried out by the Food Standards Agency prior to 20 July 2010; Mr Holloway: To ask the Secretary of State for and which are now carried out by (a) his Department, Health what recent progress he has made on the (b) the Department for Environment, Food and Rural introduction of GP commissioning in (a) Gravesham Affairs and (c) the Food Standards Agency. [44687] constituency and (b) West Kent. [44488]

Anne Milton: On 20 July 2010, the Department Mr Simon Burns: Two groups within the national announced plans to transfer some functions undertaken health service West Kent area have been awarded general by the Food Standards Agency (FSA) to either the practitioner consortia pathfinder status. The Dartford, Department of Health or to the Department for Gravesham and Swanley pathfinder was announced as Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA). part of the first wave in December 2010 and the Maidstone and Malling pathfinder as part of the second wave in Policy work for England on the following functions January 2011. These and all the pathfinders across the transferred on 1 October 2010 from the FSA to Department country are playing an increasing role in commissioning of Health: care for patients in their areas, and their learning will lead on nutritional labelling and related European Union inform our future arrangements for commissioning. negotiations; health claims, dietetic food and food supplements; Health: Disadvantaged out of home calorie labelling; reformulation to reduce salt, saturated fat and sugar levels in Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health food and reducing portion size (including in catering); what assessment his Department has made of potential (a) nutrition surveys and nutrition research; and links between income inequality and life expectancy, (b) infant mortality and (c) obesity. scientific advice and secretariat to Scientific Advisory Committee [44091] on Nutrition. Policy work for England on the following functions Anne Milton: The Department commissioned Professor transferred on 20 July 2010 from the FSA to DEFRA: Sir Michael Marmot of University College London to food labelling, where this does not relate to food safety or undertake a strategic review of health inequalities post nutrition; 2010. His review report—“Fair Society, Healthy Lives” food composition standards and labelling, where unrelated to which reported in February 2010—explored the links food safety; and between health and income inequalities and the health leading on EU negotiations for all non-safety aspects of food outcomes around life expectancy, infant mortality and labelling, except for nutrition. obesity. The FSA retains a clearly defined departmental function The review noted that the relationship between income on its core remit of food safety.It also retains responsibility inequality and health outcomes is well established and for nutrition and labelling policy in Scotland and Northern differences in health outcomes are the result of wider Ireland. social factors. Its assessment of the evidence showed 987W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 988W that life expectancy across all groups has improved, but Action to tackle health inequalities is also at the the gap between different social classes remains, rooted centre of our approach to public health. The public in disadvantage. Infant mortality rates are at an historic health White Paper, ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People’, low level, but differences remain between occupational, emphasises the important role that Public Health England social and ethnic groups. Obesity in adults has steadily (the proposed new public health service) would have in increased in all social groups but there is a clear social tackling health inequalities. The public health budget gradient between more deprived and less deprived groups. would be ring-fenced and allocated to reflect relative The Government accept the analysis in the review population health needs, with a new “health premium” and have adopted the Marmot review’s life course approach to promote action to reduce health inequalities. across the social determinants of health in the “Healthy The public health White Paper also responds to the Lives, Healthy People” (Cm 7985) White Paper, which report of the independent review, chaired by Professor has stressed the need to improve the health of the Sir Michael Marmot, to explore the impact of the wider poorest fastest. Future progress on these health outcomes social determinants of health and advise on future will be monitored through the Public Health Outcomes action to reduce health inequalities in England. The Framework, currently out for consultation. White Paper adopts the review’s life course framework, A copy of the Public Health Outcomes Framework ensuring a focus for tackling the wider social determinants consultation document has already been placed in the of health as part of a commitment to help people live Library. longer, healthier, lives and improve the health of the poorest fastest. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment his Department has made of potential Hospitals: Food links between income inequality and health inequalities. [44092] Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department takes to ensure Anne Milton: The Department commissioned Professor that NHS hospital food meets the nutritional standards Sir Michael Marmot of University College London to set by his Department for (a) all patients and (b) undertake a strategic review of health inequalities post elderly patients; and if he will make a statement. 2010. His review report—“Fair Society, Healthy Lives” [44428] which reported in February 2010—explored the links between health inequalities and the social determinants Mr Simon Burns: National health service organisations of health, including income inequality. are responsible for compiling their own menus and The review’s assessment of the evidence shows that: making decisions about the food served to patients. In the relationship between income inequality and health April 2010, nutritional care was made one of the key outcomes is well established; some groups are at a registration requirements for all organisations providing higher risk of having a low income, such as disabled health care. As such, all hospitals are expected to adhere adults and people with mental health problems; and, to the Care Quality Commission’s (CQC) ‘Essential that income inequality is not just about material deprivation standards of Quality and Safety’. This relates to all but about evidence of inequality in wider society. patients and there is no specific requirement regarding the elderly. The Government accept the analysis in the review and recognise that reducing health inequalities is a Alongside the regulations, the CQC has produced a matter of fairness and social justice. The Government range of ‘outcomes’, which indicate that an organisation have adopted the Marmot review’s life course approach is likely to be meeting the relevant regulation. In terms across the social determinants of health in the “Healthy of nutritional needs, the outcome guidance states that Lives, Healthy People” (Cm 7985) White Paper which people who use services should be supported to ensure has stressed the need to improve the health of the adequate nutrition and hydration. poorest fastest. CQC assesses how trusts comply with these legal requirements and it has the power to impose a range of sanctions where breaches are found. At our request, Health: Equality CQC is also carrying out unannounced inspections led by experienced and senior nurses. We have asked CQC Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for to publish a report on these inspections, which will Health what plans he has to reduce health inequalities. depict the level of care being provided to older patients [44590] and the actions that hospitals can take to improve this care. Anne Milton: The White Paper, ‘Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS’, set out proposals for the establishment Hospitals: Waiting Lists of an independent NHS Commissioning Board and a new NHS Outcomes Framework to help tackle health Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State inequalities, promote equality, and act as a catalyst for for Health what legal advice he received prior to driving up quality across all national health service removing the duty of the NHS to enforce the statutory services. maximum 18 week waiting time between GP referral The Health and Social Care Bill 2011 proposes and treatment. [44239] introducing new legal duties for the Secretary of State, the NHS Commissioning Board and general practice Mr Simon Burns: No duty has been removed. The commissioning consortia to have regard to addressing ‘Revision to the Operating Framework for the NHS in health inequalities. England 2010/11’, published on 21 June 2010, set out 989W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 990W that the Department will no longer performance-manage Influenza: Deaths the national health service against the 18 week maximum waiting times target. Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) how many deaths resulting from H1N1 influenza in However, as the ‘NHS Operating Framework for the winters of (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11 were (i) 2011-12’ sets out, patients continue to have rights to attributed to H1N1 alone and (ii) involved other access services within maximum waiting times under underlying symptoms; [44883] the NHS constitution and commissioners should ensure (2) how many deaths were attributed to (a) seasonal that performance does not deteriorate and where possible and (b) H1N1 influenza in each year since 2001. improves during 2011-12. [44884] Anne Milton: The number of deaths attributed to Human Papilloma Virus: Vaccination seasonal influenza in each year since 2001 is given in table 1. These data are available on the Health Protection Agency (HPA) website1. To calculate this data, the HPA Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health uses data on deaths collected by the Office for National what research his Department has (a) commissioned Statistics to estimate the number of excess deaths during and (b) conducted into the effectiveness of introducing the flu (winter) season as a proxy for influenza related a dual purpose quadrivalent human papilloma virus deaths, recognising that other factors (for example vaccine against genital warts and cervical cancer. hypothermia) may also play a contributory role. [44783] 1 This table is available on HPA website at: www.hpa.org.uk/Publications/InfectiousDiseases/Influenza/ 1010EpidemiologicalreportofpandemicH1N12009inUK Anne Milton: The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) considered the cost-effectiveness Table 1: Excess deaths in winter Total of a human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccination programme 95% number of against cervical cancer, which included assessment of confidence deaths/ % deaths in the impact of vaccination on genital warts. A summary Season Excess interval season excess of the evidence considered is set out in the JCVI statement 2000-01 747 478 - 1,015 383,805 0.2 on HPV vaccines that is published at: 2001-02 6,825 6,556 - 7,093 388,552 1.8 www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ 2002-03 6,392 6,124 - 6,661 386,946 1.7 @dh/@ab/documents/digitalasset/dh_094739.pdf 2003-04 4,873 4,336 - 5,410 377,242 1.3 A copy of the JCVI statement has already been 2004-05 1,860 1,592 - 2,129 372,259 0.5 1 placed in the Library.The cost-effectiveness study produced 2005-06 — 0 - 0 361,910 0.0 1 by the Health Protection Agency (HPA) used by the 2006-07 — 0 - 0 318,775 0.0 JCVI was published in the British Medical Journal in 2007-08 457 0 - 994 321,853 0.1 2008-09 10,147 9,878 - 327,334 3.1 July 2008: 10,588 www.bmj.com/content/337/bmj.a769.full Summer 1— 0 - 13 170,231 0.0 2009 In 2010, the Department commissioned an update to 2009-10 3,261 2,993 - 3,530 315,931 1.0 the cost-effectiveness study. This study is taking into 1 No excess detected account new data on the potential protection provided In the United Kingdom, cases of the H1N1 “swine by the HPV vaccines against cancer and non-cancer flu” have occurred from April 2009 to May 2010 (the diseases, including genital warts. The study, which has swine flu pandemic period) and the period May 2010 not yet been published by the HPA, will support the onwards including winter 2010-11. Deaths associated next procurement exercise for the HPV immunisation with this virus during these periods are summarised in programme in 2011. table 2.

Table 2: Deaths associated with the H1N1 “swine flu” virus Time period Deaths associated with swine flu virus Reference

Swine flu pandemic A total of 474 deaths with confirmed pandemic Epidemiological report of pandemic (H1N1) 2009 in the UK: (April 2009 to May (H1N1) 2009 (either laboratory confirmed or with www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1284475321350 2010) mention on the death certificate) were reported in the United Kingdom up to 15 April 2010 (359 in England, 69 in Scotland, 18 in Northern Ireland and 28 in Wales). May 2010 to 2011 (up Further epidemiological information on cases is HPA Weekly National Influenza Report Summary of UK surveillance of to 23 February 2011) available on 499 of the 523 fatal laboratory confirmed influenza and other seasonal respiratory illnesses www.hpa.org.uk/web/ influenza cases from across the UK reported to the HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1296681716703 HPA, including 400 cases from England. 461 (92%) of these 499 cases were associated with H1N1 (2009).

Two parallel systems for collecting information on fatal cases through the NHS. The HPA’s system involved individual fatal cases operated during the swine flu identification of deaths through reconciliation of data pandemic period, one by the chief medical officer’s from a range of surveillance sources (e.g. influenza (CMO’s) office and the other by the HPA. The reports laboratory reports, death certificates, reports from local from the two systems were reconciled. CMO’s HPA teams). confidential inquiry involved reporting of confirmed 991W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 992W

Since May 2010, the ascertainment of fatal influenza and nurses, in particular, receive nutritional training cases has been similar to the HPA approach used during and are actively involved in setting and monitoring the pandemic. standards of nutritional care. Training in nutrition is The HPA have further information on 446 of the delivered during both pre and post registration nursing fatal cases due to the H1N1 “swine flu” virus. This education. further information shows that 316 of the 446 cases It is also for local national health service organisations (71%) were in a CMO-defined clinical risk group. to devise their own nutrition policies and procedures to meet local needs. We have provided guidance nationally National Blood Service on food and drink through the Essence of Care benchmarking programme, together with information Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State and guidance to Health Professionals on Maternal and for Health what discussions (a) he, (b) other Ministers Child Health, Healthy Start, the5ADAYProgramme in his Department and (c) departmental officials have and the Obesity Care Pathway. had on the future of the National Blood Service since May 2010; and if he will make a statement. [44322] Obesity

Anne Milton: Ministers and officials discussed and Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health agreed the recommendations for the future of NHS what recent assessment he has made of the relative Blood and Transplant (NHSBT), of which the National ranking of the UK in international comparator tables Blood Service is part, as set out in the report of the on levels of obesity. [44599] arm’s length bodies review (July 2010). The report has already been placed in the Library. Anne Milton: In 2010 the Organisation for Economic It was agreed that NHSBT would stay within the Co-operation and Development (OECD) ranked the arm’s length body sector but that an in-depth review United Kingdom the fourth in the world for obesity would be commissioned into opportunities to make it prevalence after the United States of America, Mexico, more commercially effective. Representatives from relevant and New Zealand. Data on obesity prevalence can be Department policy teams, the Welsh Assembly Government found in OECD Health Data 2010, this information is and NHSBT are contributing to the review. The review, available at: which is at an early stage, will not consider changes to www.oecd.org/document/16/ any functions or services that could risk destabilising 0,3746,en_2649_34631_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html the current national donor system, particularly the interface Out of Area Treatment with donors. Any possible options that are identified will be considered very carefully before a final decision is made by Ministers. Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what protocols govern the funding of out-of-area NHS: Private Sector treatments for NHS patients. [44902]

Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: Under the current commissioning Health what recent estimate he has made of the cost to arrangements, “Who Pays? Establishing the Responsible the NHS of emergency treatment required by patients Commissioner” sets out the principles for determining being treated in private hospitals in the last 24 months; which primary care trust would be responsible for funding and how much of this has been recouped by the NHS the treatment of patients. A copy has been placed in the to date. [44380] Library. “Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS” set out Mr Simon Burns: The Department has neither an our proposals for transforming the quality of decision- estimate nor relevant information. It would be the making to local consortia of general practitioner (GP) responsibility of local national health service bodies to practices supported by an independent NHS seek to recoup any costs arising from patients’ prior Commissioning Board. A copy has already been placed treatment in another setting. in the Library. We propose that GP Consortia will be the responsible commissioner for any patients registered Nutrition: Health Services with their constituent practices.

Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for Patients Health what nutritional training primary care practitioners receive; and what role his Department Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State plays in providing information in respect of best for Health what plans he has for the future of statutory practice nutritional advice to primary care rights for patients; and if he will make a statement. practitioners. [44413] [44319]

Anne Milton: The content of curriculum and quality Mr Simon Burns: The Government are upholding the and standard of training for health care professions is NHS constitution, which sets out legal rights for patients, the responsibility of the appropriate professional regulatory public and staff. Under the Health Act 2009, all providers body. However, the Department has supported the and commissioners of national health service-funded development of post-graduate training and a post-graduate services are required to have regard to the constitution Diploma in Paediatric Nutrition for medical practitioners, in performing their functions; the current Health and including general practitioners, which is currently being Social Care Bill would extend this duty to the new NHS run by the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges. Dieticians Commissioning Board and commissioning consortia. 993W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 994W

Pregnant Women: Stress Anne Milton: We announced in the Public Health White Paper “Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Our strategy Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for public health in England”, published on 30 November what research his Department has (a) commissioned 2010, that we would be publishing a new Tobacco and (b) evaluated on the effect of maternal stress levels Control Plan. This will give details of how the Government during pregnancy on the mental health of (i) the foetus will set about reducing the morbidity and mortality that and (ii) the subsequent (A) infant and (B) adult. result from smoking, niche tobacco use and exposure to [44407] secondhand tobacco smoke. Mr Simon Burns: The Medical Research Council Alongside the Tobacco Control Plan, we will publish (MRC) is one of the main agencies through which the a summary of the research evidence into the impact of Government support medical and clinical research. The smokefree legislation in England, including the health MRC is a non-departmental public body which receives effects of secondhand smoke in confined spaces. its grant in aid from the Department for Business, The Tobacco Control Plan will be informed by all Innovation and Skills. relevant available research evidence, including the health The MRC supports a broad portfolio of research effects of secondhand tobacco smoke on young people, relating to maternal health and its impact on children tobacco smuggling and use of smokeless tobacco products. including a number of research projects, which aim to It will also take into account the recommendations of investigate the effects of maternal stress in pregnancy. the Inquiry on the effectiveness and cost-effectiveness Further information can be found on the MRC’s online of tobacco control by the All Party Parliamentary research portfolio at: Group on Smoking and Health. www.mrc.ac.uk/ResearchPortfolio/index.htm In addition, the MRC supports a number of population- based cohort studies that provide the infrastructure to BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS enable important questions about the impact of maternal health to be addressed. Careers Advice Social Services Mrs Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has to Health what recent estimate he has made of the provide independent and impartial careers guidance for (a) number of local authorities which have changed pupils aged 13 to 16 years as part of his proposals for their eligibility criteria for social care in 2010-11 and an all-age careers service. [36923] (b) are planning to do so in 2011-12. [44492] Paul Burstow: Councils are currently setting their Mr Gibb: I have been asked to reply. budgets for 2011-12. The Government have committed Through the Education Bill, schools will be placed an extra £530 million through the local government under a duty to secure access to independent, impartial formula grant and £648 million in direct cash support careers guidance for all pupils aged 13 to 16, and will be from the national health service for social care, as well free to decide how to do so based on the needs of their as £150 million for re-ablement. It is for councils to pupils. This recognises the important role of schools in make decisions about eligibility and access to social ensuring their pupils have access to appropriate support, care. working in partnership with expert careers advisers. Tobacco Citizens’ Advice Bureaux and Law Centres: Closures Bob Blackman: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what research his Department has (a) Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for commissioned and (b) evaluated on the health effects Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has on young people of second hand smoke in confined made of the number of (a) citizens advice bureaux and spaces; and whether his Department plans to take steps (b) law centres likely to close in (i) Bolton, (ii) Greater to protect children from exposure to second hand Manchester and (iii) England as a result of the smoke in cars; [44921] Comprehensive Spending Review. [44845] (2) what research his Department has (a) evaluated and (b) commissioned on the effects on tobacco Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation smuggling of point of sale display bans; and when he and Skills (BIS) has a wider interest in the network of plans to take a decision on the implementation of a local citizens advice bureaux (CAB), but funding is a tobacco display ban; [44922] matter for local authorities, not BIS. BIS has no locus (3) with reference to the Public Health White Paper, over the future of law centres, on which the Ministry of what consideration he has given to the Justice lead. recommendations of the Inquiry on the effectiveness The Government are aware that the local authority in and cost-effectiveness of tobacco control by the Bolton has no anticipated plans to cut funding to All-Party Parliamentary Group on Smoking and Bolton CAB. As far as the rest of Greater Manchester Health; and if he will make a statement; [44923] is concerned a large number of local authorities have (4) whether his Department has made an assessment yet to finalise their budgets but both Bury and Tameside of the health effects of the use of smokeless tobacco bureaux are not anticipating any cut in funding. Rochdale products in the south Asian community; whether he and Oldham local authorities are looking at moving to plans to make provision in respect of such effects in the a commissioning process and bureaux in those areas forthcoming tobacco control plan; and if he will make will have the opportunity to bid for funding on that a statement. [44927] basis. 995W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 996W

The Government do not as yet have a full picture of Mr Davey: The definition used by the Department for funding of bureaux across England as many local Business, Innovation and Skills is that ‘dirty’ fossil fuel authorities have yet to decide on budgets but BIS is power generation means unabated coal-fired power stations. working closely with Citizens Advice, the umbrella body, It would therefore consider any other form of fossil fuel to assess the full impact. power generation to be clean. Higher Education: Admissions Employment: EU Action Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has of 14 February 2011, Official Report, column 568W, on made of the likely effect of the Commission higher education: admissions, when he plans to provide Communication on An Agenda for new skills and jobs: further information about the National Scholarship A European contribution towards full employment, Scheme. [44978] COM(2010) 682 final; what estimate he has made of the cost to the UK of implementing each measure Mr Willetts: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I recommended in the Communication; and whether the gave on 14 February 2011, Official Report, column implementation of any measure recommended in the 568W. More detailed operational guidance to help Communication would involve a transfer of powers institutions develop their own arrangements will be from the UK to the EU. [44417] available shortly from the Higher Education Funding Council for England. Mr Davey: The EU New Skills and Jobs agenda does Higher Education: Anti-Semitism not contain any specific legislative measures, but presents a work programme in the areas of skills and employment. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Details of this are set out in the Explanatory Memorandum Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what recent reports submitted on 16 December. The Government have made he has received on incidents of Israeli students at clear that national competence and the principles of universities in (a) London and (b) England being subsidiarity and proportionality must be respected. Should targeted by Islamic extremists; and if he will make a specific proposals emerge on skills and employment, we statement; [41710] will work to ensure this is the case and that proposals are accompanied by a full impact assessment. (2) what recent (a) meetings he has had with and (b) representations he has received from (i) the Israeli Financial Services: Low Incomes ambassador to Great Britain and (ii) the Government of Israel on (A) the security of Israeli students Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for attending university in the United Kingdom, (B) Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions anti-Semitism against Israeli students on campus and he has had with representatives of the financial services (C) the targeting of Israeli students by Islamic industry on improving access to work opportunities for extremists; and if he will make a statement. [41711] people from low-income backgrounds; and if he will Mr Willetts: I have received no reports of incidents of make a statement. [43494] Israeli students attending universities in London, or Mr Hayes: The Minister for Universities and Science, more widely in England, being targeted by Islamic my right hon. Friend the Member for Havant (Mr Willetts), extremists. I have also had no formal representations meets regularly with representatives of the financial from, or held meetings with, the Israeli Government or services industry and related professional bodies in a Israeli ambassador to Great Britain about these issues. variety of forums, including the Graduate Employer’s However, the broader issue of the treatment of Jewish Forum and the Gateways to the Professions Collaborative students was one of a number of subjects I discussed Forum (which he chairs), encouraging them to take with Alon Roth-Snir, the deputy ambassador of Israel action to widen access to professional careers. to the UK, at a recent dinner engagement on UK-Israel Late last year, he met a representative of the New trade relations. I have also discussed this matter, the City Initiative, a group of companies in the independent experiences of Jewish students in the UK, at a meeting asset management sector, to discuss their proposal to held last October with John Mann MP, the Community provide work placements for undergraduates from Security Trust, the Union of Jewish Students, Universities disadvantaged backgrounds. We welcome this proposal UK and the Equality Challenge Unit. and my officials have been discussing with the New City There is no place for racism of any form, including Initiative ways of supporting it. anti-Semitism, in higher education. Universities have And as part of the Growth Review, my officials have access to a strong legislative framework and guidance to met a range of representatives from the professional help them deal effectively with instances of intolerance, and business services sector. The Government’s commitment racism and harassment in their institutions. Government to driving social mobility has formed part of those would expect them to vigorously tackle these issues discussions. when they arise and has supported institutions with key guidance on promoting good campus relations in the Fossil Fuels sector. Higher Education: Business Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for of 17 February 2011, Official Report, column 981W, on Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking fossil fuels, what definition of clean fossil fuel energy to encourage partnerships between universities and production his Department uses. [43329] businesses; and if he will make a statement. [44987] 997W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 998W

Mr Willetts: Government have a range of measures Mr Hayes: The Institute for Learning (IfL) provides to encourage partnerships between universities and this Department with information about the take-up of businesses including: encouraging universities through continuing professional development (CPD) by further Research Council’s Pathways to Impact; HEFCE’s education staff teaching staff. IfL published an annual Research Excellence Framework and Higher Education a review of CPD; the latest one covering 2009-10 is now Innovation Funding; and ongoing collaboration between available. the Research Councils and the Technology Strategy Board. The Research Councils will also work closely Intellectual Property: Reform with the TSB providing support for the science that will underpin the Technology Innovation Centres. Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions his Higher Education: Fees and Charges Department has had with organisations on the reform of intellectual property law in the last 12 months; and if Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for he will make a statement. [44874] Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has had with the Office for Budget Responsibility on the Mr Davey [holding answer 7 March 2011]: Ministers effects on economic forecasts of average university and officials within the Department have regular and tuition fee levels exceeding £7,500; and if he will make frequent discussions with a large number of organisations a statement. [44714] seeking changes, both major and minor, to intellectual property law. Mr Willetts [holding answer 7 March 2011]: For their November Economic and Fiscal Outlook, the Office of Internet: Regulation Budget Responsibility scrutinised and certified the estimates for loan outlay provided by the Department for Business, Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. This involved discussion at official Innovation and Skills if he will discuss with the Office level about the key assumptions behind loan outlay, of Fair Trading its policy on search neutrality on the including the level of average fees charged; the loan internet. [44903] take-up rate; and the growth in overall student numbers. Mr Davey: Competition authorities’ responsibilities Higher Education: Finance are about protecting competition and consumer interests with regard to the provision and use of internet search Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for facilities. As a result of a number of complaints, the Business, Innovation and Skills whether his European Commission announced on 30 November Department holds information on the provenance of 2010, that it had initiated three separate antitrust major donations to universities in England; and if he investigations into competing vertical search service will make a statement. [44120] providers covering the whole of the EU. These investigations are a matter solely for the European Commission. The Mr Willetts: The Department does not hold information Commission’s announcements can be found at the following on the provenance of major donations to universities in link: England. http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/ Universities are autonomous institutions. As a charity, index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_result a university will set its own standards for the acceptance of donations subject to guidance from the Charity Job Creation: North West Commission. Mark Menzies: To ask the Secretary of State for Higher Education: Overseas Students Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions he has had on job creation and apprenticeships in the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for North West; and if he will make a statement. [43569] Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of the likely change in the level of income from Mr Hayes [holding answer 2 March 2011]: I recently overseas students for each (a) university and (b) met colleges and employers in the North West. I discussed further education college as a result of changes to apprenticeships among other subjects when I visited the immigration rules in 2011-12; and if he will make a region earlier this year. statement. [44985] The primary objective of the Apprenticeships Programme is skills training rather than job creation, but many Damian Green: I have been asked to reply. employers do use apprenticeships as a recruitment tool. A consultation on the student immigration system closed on 31 January. The consultation sought the views Employers in the North West region offer more of all respondents on the effect of the proposals. The apprenticeship places than any other English region. impact assessment and results of the consultation will Over 47,000 people started an apprenticeship in the be published in due course. North West in 2009/10, an increase of over 10,000 places compared with 2008/09. Institute for Learning As a result of activity during apprenticeships week, which took place in February, the North West Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Apprenticeship Ambassador Network now has 33 members. Business, Innovation and Skills whether the Institute The network, which is managed by the National for Learning shares information with his Department Apprenticeship Service is an elite team of business on the take-up of continuing professional development leaders who act as advocates for apprenticeships in the by staff employed in further education. [44186] region. 999W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1000W

There were also a number of announcements about For the over-65s, redundancies are not a major feature activity in the North West during apprenticeships week. for either the public or private sectors. In the labour For example, Jaguar Land Rover announced a new force survey, the number of redundancies in any one World Class Manufacturing Programme to take on year is always below a weighted count of 10,000, the 1,500 apprentices in their Halewood plant on Merseyside. Office for National Statistics (ONS) conventional threshold for statistical publication. Neurology In general, employment of older workers has increased by more than the national average in recent years. The Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for ONS has recently provided a report on this at: Business, Innovation and Skills how much the http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=2648 Biological Sciences Research Council gave to neuroscience research in each of the last five years; and Part-time Education: Student Numbers how much it plans to give in each of the next five years. [44596] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has plans to Mr Willetts: The Biotechnology and Biological Sciences regulate the number of part-time students; and if he Research Council (BBSRC) is the leading funding agency will make a statement. [44577] for academic research in the non-clinical life sciences in the UK. BBSRC is a non-departmental public body Mr Willetts: The Government only seek to control which receives its grant in aid from the Department for student numbers in order to manage overall public Business, Innovation and Skills. spending. We are currently considering future systems The total annual spend for BBSRC research relevant to manage student support costs under the new to neuroscience for the past five years is detailed in the arrangements. A decision on the most appropriate type following table. of cost control, including in respect of part-time students, BBSRC funding for research relevant to neuroscience1 will be considered in consultation following the forthcoming Total annual spend (£ million) Higher Education White Paper.

2005/06 28.3 Regional Development Agencies 2006/07 31.8 2007/08 35.2 Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008/09 39.5 Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward 2009/10 40.4 proposals to abolish regional development agencies 1 Includes funding through the following mechanisms: Responsive sooner than currently planned. [43726] Mode, Initiatives, Fellowships to HEIs and BBSRC Institutes and Core Strategic Funding to BBSRC institutes. Mr Prisk: Final closure is subject to parliamentary BBSRC does not have fixed allocations for neuroscience consideration of the Public Bodies Bill, and associated funding. Future funding of neuroscience research by secondary legislation. Subject to these considerations BBSRC is dependent on the quality and strategic relevance we expect the regional development agencies to be of grant applications. Funding will be allocated over closed by March 2012 or as soon as is practical after the next four years in relation to relevance to BBSRC’s this. strategic priorities and BBSRC’s four-year spending review settlement. As currently only a small part of neuroscience is within BBSRC’s strategic priorities, it is Regional Growth Fund likely that there will be a reduction in BBSRC funding over the next spending review period for neuroscience Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for research that is outside our strategic priorities. An estimate, Business, Innovation and Skills what the budget is for not an allocation, which is all that is possible at this the Regional Growth Fund for Yorkshire for (a) stage until BBSRC has received applications for funding 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13. [44532] and dependent on their relevance and quality, is that this might amount to a reduction of £4 million/year, i.e. Mr Prisk: The Regional Growth Fund (RGF) is a total neuroscience funding might run at approximately £1.4 billion fund that will operate for three years from £36 million/year. 2011 to 2014. The RGF is a challenge fund and not ring-fenced or pre-allocated to any area although the Older Workers: Termination of Employment fund will operate in England only.

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Students: Finance Innovation and Skills if he will assess recent trends in termination of employment of (a) employees in the Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for public sector and (b) employees in the private sector Business, Innovation and Skills how many over the age of 65 prior to the removal of the default undergraduate students resident in (a) Suffolk, (b) the retirement age. [44240] East of England and (c) England have declared themselves bankrupt in each year since 1997. [44202] Mr Davey: Overall redundancies have varied over the past 15 years and are higher in recessions. The level of Mr Willetts: The number of undergraduate students total redundancies ranges from 91,000 in the final quarter who have declared themselves bankrupt is not held of 2008 to 39,000 in the last quarter of 2010. centrally. 1001W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1002W

The following table shows the number of students in Mr Davey: The European Commission investigation England who have student loans and who have notified into alleged dumping of imports of vinyl acetate from the Student Loans Company (SLC) of their bankruptcy the US is at an early stage having been initiated on while studying. However, the table does not include 4 December 2010. We are satisfied that there was a students who have not applied for student finance and prima facie case of alleged dumping requiring the European students who have student loans but who have not Commission to initiate the investigation. The Government notified the SLC that they are bankrupt. Student loans judges each anti-dumping case on its own merits based have been excluded from a borrower’s bankruptcy debts on an economic analysis of the results of the Commission’s since 2004. investigation and representations received from relevant Students who have notified SLC of bankruptcy while studying interests (e.g. producers, users and others). To date one Financial year Students1 meeting has been held with INEOS Oxide Ltd, a UK producer and the complainant in this case. As in all 1997-98 5 anti-dumping cases we will discuss this case with the 1998-99 10 Commission and other member states as appropriate. 1999-00 10 The Commission will in any event consult all member 2000-01 5 states through the Anti-Dumping Committee before 2001-02 15 any measures are taken. 2002-03 20 2003-04 70 2004-052 65 EDUCATION 2005-062 35 2006-072 25 Boarding Schools 2 2007-08 20 Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for 2 2008-09 10 Education what funding his Department provides to 1 English domiciled students with student loans who have notified SLC of their bankruptcy while studying. Figures may include postgraduate ITT students. As education providers in the state boarding school sector; the table covers bankruptcies notified to SLC, figures could change slightly in and if he will make a statement. [24536] future If further bankruptcies are notified, especially for the most recent years. Figures rounded to the nearest 5. Mr Gibb [holding answer 16 November 2010]: The 2 Since 2004 student loans are no longer written-off due to bankruptcy. From Government support state boarding schools in England that time the number of students notifying the SLC of their bankruptcy has declined. and want to see the sector continue to thrive. All state Source: boarding schools receive enhanced levels of capital Student Loans Company formula funding based on the number of boarding Figures for Suffolk and the East of England cannot pupils they have. be supplied as they are so small as to potentially identify There are currently three academies developing boarding individuals. provision which are all due to open in September 2011. Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for These are: Business, Innovation and Skills what consideration he Harefield Academy in Hillingdon, London—50 boarders gave to introducing bursaries rather than tuition fee Priory LSST Academy in Lincolnshire—60 (post 16) boarders remission for students from low-income backgrounds Wellington Academy in Wiltshire—100 boarders attending university under the National Scholarship There are 34 state boarding schools in England (31 Scheme. [44972] are maintained schools, one is an academy and two are Sixth Forms). Mr Willetts: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 14 February 2011, Official Report, column Children in Care 568W. Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Vinyl Acetate Education how many looked after children in each (a) local authority area and (b) type of placement were Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for absent for more that 24 hours from their agreed Business, Innovation and Skills (1) if he will discuss placement in each of the last three years for which with his EU counterparts provisional measures to figures are available. [39726] prevent the dumping of imports of vinyl acetate originating from the US; [44533] Tim Loughton [holding answer 14 February 2011]: (2) whether his Department plans to request to be Information on the number of looked after children in heard by the European Commission investigation each local authority area who were absent for more services as part of the investigation into imports of than 24 hours from their agreed placement in each of vinyl acetate originating from the US; [44534] the last three years is shown in the following table. (3) what plans he has to contribute to the European Information on the number of looked after children Commission’s investigation into the alleged dumping by type of placement who were absent for more than of vinyl acetate from the US; [44564] 24 hours from their agreed placement in each of the last (4) what recent representations he has received on three years can be provided only at a disproportionate the alleged dumping of vinyl acetate from the US into cost. the European market; and if he will make a statement; Children looked after during the year ending 31 March who were missing from [44565] their agreed placement1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Years ending: 31 March 2008 to 2010. Coverage: (5) whether he has made an assessment of the effects England on British industry of alleged dumping of vinyl acetate Number from the US in Europe; and if he will make a 2008 2009 2010 statement. [44568] England 1,100 1,000 920 1003W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1004W

Children looked after during the year ending 31 March who were missing from Children looked after during the year ending 31 March who were missing from their agreed placement1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Years ending: 31 March 2008 to 2010. Coverage: their agreed placement1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Years ending: 31 March 2008 to 2010. Coverage: England England Number Number 2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010

North East 20 20 10 Wakefield x 5 5 Darlington x x x Yo rk 0 1 0 x Durham 0 0 0 Gateshead 0 0 x East Midlands 20 30 20 Hartlepool 0 0 0 Derby x x x Middlesbrough 0 0 x Derbyshire x x x Newcastle upon 00xLeicester x 5 x Tyne Leicestershire x x x North Tyneside x 0 0 Lincolnshire x x x Northumberland x 0 0 Northamptonshire x 10 10 Redcar and 000 Cleveland Nottingham x 5 5 South Tyneside 0 x 0 Nottinghamshire x x 0 Stockton-on- 000Rutland 0 0 0 Tees Sunderland 15 15 10 West Midlands 130 120 100 Birmingham 10 10 20 North West 130 120 120 Coventry 10 10 5 Blackburn with x0xDudley 10 x x Darwen Herefordshire x 0 0 Blackpool 0 0 0 Sandwell 0 0 x Bolton303030Shropshire 0 x 0 Bury x x x Solihull 15 15 10 6 Cheshire 00n/aStaffordshire 15 15 x 6 Cheshire East n/a 0 x Stoke-on-Trent 30 20 20 Cheshire West n/a 0 x Telford and xxx 6 and Chester Wrekin Cumbria x 0 x Walsall 20 15 10 Halton x 0 x Warwickshire 10 10 10 Knowsley 0 0 0 Wolverhampton 10 5 x Lancashire x x 0 Worcestershire x x 15 Liverpool 15 15 15 Manchester 10 5 x East of England 70 80 60 Oldham 5 x x Bedfordshire6 0 n/a n/a Rochdale 0 0 0 Bedford n/a 0 0 Salford x 0 x Borough6 Sefton 5 10 15 Central n/a 0 x St Helens 0 0 0 Bedfordshire6 Stockport 15 10 20 Cambridgeshire x x 0 Tameside 10 10 0 Essex 35 40 15 Trafford 15 10 x Hertfordshire 10 25 35 Warrington 5 5 x Luton 10 5 x Wigan x 5 x Norfolk x x 0 Wirral x x x Peterborough x x x Southend-on- 5xx Sea Yorkshire and 70 80 70 Suffolk 0 x x the Humber Thurrock x x x Barnsley x x 0 Bradford 10 5 10 London 380 330 300 Calderdale 0 0 x Inner London 150 130 100 Don caster x 5 x Camden x x x East Riding of xx0 Yorkshire City of London x 0 0 Kingston upon 000Hackney x x 0 Hull, City of Hammersmith xx0 Kirklees 0 0 0 and Fulham Leeds 15 15 20 Haringey 20 30 30 North East 55xIslington x 5 x Lincolnshire Kensington and 25 20 15 North xx0Chelsea Lincolnshire Lambeth 25 25 20 North Yorkshire x x 0 Lewisham x x 5 Rotherham 25 20 10 Newham 20 15 5 Sheffield 5 x 10 Southwark 10 10 10 1005W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1006W

Children looked after during the year ending 31 March who were missing from Children looked after during the year ending 31 March who were missing from their agreed placement1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Years ending: 31 March 2008 to 2010. Coverage: their agreed placement1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Years ending: 31 March 2008 to 2010. Coverage: England England Number Number 2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010

Tower Hamlets 5 x x Poole x x x Wandsworth 5 x x Somerset x 0 0 Westminster 20 10 x South 000 Gloucestershire Swindon x 0 0 Outer London 240 200 200 Torbay 10 10 5 Barking and 25 20 15 Dagenham Wiltshire x x x Barnet 10 x x x = Figures not shown in order to protect confidentiality. n/a = Not available Bexley 5 x x 1 England totals have been rounded to the nearest 100 if they exceed 1,000, Brent 35 30 20 and to the nearest 10 otherwise. Regional totals have been rounded to the Bromley 0 15 15 nearest 10. Other numbers have been rounded to the nearest 5. 2 Figures exclude children looked after under an agreed series of short-term Croydon 10 x 25 placements. Ealing x 5 x 3 Historical data may differ from older publications. This is mainly due to the Enfield 15 10 15 implementation of amendments and corrections sent by some local authorities after the publication date of previous materials. Greenwich 10 10 20 4 Children who were missing on more than one occasion during the year have Harrow x 10 10 been counted once. 5 Havering 10 x 10 Includes looked after children who were missing from care for a period of more than 24 hours. Hillingdon 55 35 25 6 In 2009, Cheshire local authority split into Cheshire East and Cheshire West Hounslow 10 15 20 and Chester. Similarly, Bedfordshire LA split into Bedford borough and Kingston Upon xx0Central Bedfordshire. Thames Source: SSDA903 Merton 5 5 x Redbridge 10 10 x Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Richmond xx0 Upon Thames what the average cost was of looking after a child in Sutton 15 5 10 care in the last year for which figures are available. [41698] Waltham Forest 10 5 x Tim Loughton [holding answer 28 February 2011]: South East 180 160 140 Returns from local authorities indicate that their expenditure Bracknell Forest x x x on looked after children in 2009-10 was some £2,888 million. Brighton and xx10This supported around 80,000 children who were in Hove care for some or all of that year. This would equate to Buckinghamshire x x x an average expenditure of £36,000 per child. However East Sussex x 0 0 the cost will vary considerably between individual children. Hampshire 50 45 45 Isle of Wight x x x Children: Day Care Kent 25 10 x Medway Towns x x x Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Milton Keynes 10 x x State for Education what recent discussions he has had Oxfordshire x 5 x with representatives of playgroups and other providers Portsmouth x x x of early years care on their ability to provide 15 hours Reading 0 0 0 free care for the statutory amount they are paid; if he Slough 0 10 X will assess the merits of enabling them to charge top-up Southampton 35 25 15 fees from parents to cover additional costs; and if he Surrey404540will make a statement. [15342] West Berkshire 0 x 0 West Sussex x x 0 Sarah Teather [holding answer 14 September 2010]: Windsor and 0x5Good quality early education helps tackle disadvantage Maidenhead and improve children’s life chances. We announced in Wokingham x x 0 the spending review that funding has been protected so that all three and four-year-olds will continue to receive South West 80 90 90 15 hours per week of free nursery education, delivered Bath and North xxxmore flexibly, and that this will be extended to every East Somerset disadvantaged two-year-old from 2013. Bournemouth x x 0 Fairness is at the heart of the Government’s agenda. Bristol, City of x 10 10 Local authorities have a statutory duty—under section Cornwall 20 25 20 7 of the Childcare Act—to secure nursery places free of Devon 15 x 15 charge, effectively prohibiting top-up fees. This ensures Dorset x x 0 that there are no barriers to accessing the benefits of Gloucestershire x x x nursery education for all children, but particularly the Isles of Scilly 0 0 0 most disadvantaged. Parents are free to purchase additional North Somerset 5 10 15 hours and services outside of the hours for which Plymouth 15 10 15 providers receive funding from local authorities. 1007W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1008W

Many providers up and down the country are offering significantly changing children’s centres and to secure an excellent service to parents and their children within sufficient centre provision to meet local need so far as is existing funding levels. The Government are listening to reasonably practical. We have provided important new the views of early years providers and their representative investment in 4,200 additional health visitors who will bodies concerning funding issues. The Government are play a key role in supporting those families most in seeking to improve the efficiency with which funding is need. distributed to providers, through the Early Years Single Funding Formula (EYSFF) reforms, as well as reducing Children’s Centres: Teachers bureaucratic burdens on providers who deliver free nursery education. Many providers will also be benefiting from other support that local authorities provide for Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for early learning and care. Providers will want to take into Education if he will estimate the number of Sure Start account this whole package of support before deciding centres which will no longer employ both a qualified whether delivering free places fits with their business teacher and a staff member with early years model. professional status following the phasing out of this requirement. [31012] Children: Separated People Sarah Teather [holding answer 16 December 2010]: Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department for Education does not collect this Education what discussions he has held with the (a) data. Decisions on staffing in Sure Start Children’s Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and (b) Centres are a matter for local discretion. Chancellor of the Exchequer on the potential effects on We have removed the overly prescriptive requirement levels of child poverty of the rules concerning for all Sure Start Children’s Centres in the most eligibility to child and other benefits for separated disadvantaged areas to provide full day care. We have parents with joint custody arrangements. [34971] also removed the associated requirement that this provision be delivered by both a Qualified Teacher (QT) and an Sarah Teather: The Secretary of State for Education, Early YearsProfessional (EYP), so that children’s centres my right hon. Friend, has frequent discussions with may chose to employ just one of a QT or an EYP. Ministers about all aspects of his portfolio. In the past, children’s centres in the most disadvantaged areas were required to provide full day care, i.e. 10 hours Children: Solvents a day, five days a week, for 48 weeks a year. However, the National Audit Office Memorandum for the Children, Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Schools and Families Committee, December 2009, Education how many individuals aged under 18 years suggested that in some areas, when demand for full day old were treated for the effects of solvent abuse in each care is low, money intended for other Sure Start services— of the last five years. [38072] like family support and outreach to vulnerable families—is subsidising the provision of early education and care. Sarah Teather: The number of young people aged We expect children’s centres to continue to play a under 18 who accessed specialist support, primarily for critical role in early education and care, including providing solvent misuse, in each of the past five years is as and encouraging take-up of free nursery education for follows: two, three, and four-year-olds and additional hours 2005-06: 210 where there is demand. Furthermore, we know the 2006-07: 301 quality of early education is a key driver of good 2007-08: 305 outcomes, particularly for disadvantaged children. So, 2008-09: 284 where children’s centres offer early education, it is crucial 2009-10: 274. that this is of high quality. In each year this represented 1% of the total number The Government remain committed to investing in of young people under 18 accessing specialist services the quality of the early education and child care workforce, for substance misuse. and will develop proposals to support this later this Source: year. The recent local authority and school funding settlement provides for the ongoing support and Substance Misuse Amongst Young People 2009 - 10, National Treatment Agency. development of the workforce. Continued national investment in the early years workforce includes the Children’s Centres: Disadvantaged funding of places on the Early Years Professional Status programme and the New Leaders in Early Yearsprogramme Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for which began in November. Education what steps he is taking to ensure that vulnerable families living in areas not identified as College of Social Work disadvantaged have access to a children’s centre. [39461] Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for Sarah Teather: Sure Start children’s centres are at the Education how much funding his Department has heart of the Government’s vision for early intervention. allocated to the Social Care Institute for Excellence The Government have included enough funding within since the announcement of the College of Social Work; the early intervention grant to maintain the national and how much funding he has allocated to the Social network of children’s centres and local authorities have Care Institute for Excellence for each of the next five a statutory duty to consult before opening, closing or years. [41233] 1009W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1010W

Tim Loughton: The Social Care Institute for Excellence Single tenders below the OJEU threshold has been asked to facilitate the establishment of the Contractor Description of contract College of Social Work, providing administrative support Dame Clare Tickell Independent Chair of the Early Years and expertise in a developmental phase of two years. Foundation Stage Review The Department of Health has made £2.5 million available Wiggins LLP Teachers TV Legal Advice for this work. The Department of Education has committed Sean Feeney Project Director of the Capital Review to match this funding and officials are in discussions as Dr John Dunford Independent Review of the Office of to the appropriate time to make funds available to meet the Children’s Commissioner the emerging business development plan. Professor Alison Wolf Review of Vocation Education General Social Care Council Social Work Reform Programme— Rationalising Standards and Practice Commercialisation and Sexualisation of Children Learning Review Review Dr David Lane Consultancy Support to the Munro Review Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Capgemini Manage, Operate and Facilitate a Major Event for the Department’s Education if he will ensure that the Bailey review on Education Standards and the commercialisation and sexualisation of childhood Infrastructure and Funding considers the role of the family. [32762] Directorates, and external Partners Lewis Live Free Schools Conference Sarah Teather: Reg Bailey’s review is independent of PWC Review of finance and procurement Government. However, the terms of reference for the end to end processes (Pro bono) review make clear that Mr Bailey’s recommendations Owen Education Education Advisers for Free Schools and Academies should be informed by the views of parents. Mr Bailey Personal Development Point Ltd National Citizen Service—independent has also been asked to examine how the pressures on evaluator children to grow up too quickly also create barriers to Cap Gemini Transfer system on to supported parents exercising their responsibility in raising their systems register children. Single tenders over the EU threshold Contractor Description of contract Value (£) Curriculum: Religion Professor Dylan National Curriculum 175,000 Wiliam, Professor Review: Appointment of Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Pollard and an Expert Panel Education what assessment he has made of the place of Professor Mary James religious education in the national curriculum. [39044] PA Consulting Strategic Partnering service 1,896,000 to provide client side programme delivery Mr Gibb: Religious education RE is a statutory part capability for the ContactPoint and eCAF of the basic curriculum of maintained schools in England, Projects but not a part of the national curriculum. This means WS Atkins Strategic Partnering service 394,416 that there are no statutory national programmes of to provide client side study, attainment targets or assessment arrangements. programme delivery capability for ContactPoint However, the locally agreed syllabus, which is designed and eCAF Projects. In by standing advisory councils on religious education addition a service-based (SACRE) and adopted by the local authority, is statutory, requirement to co-ordinate implementation across the and that means that local authorities must provide such regions a syllabus and that maintained schools must follow it. UCAS A-level helpline 100,000 Schools with a religious character can either follow the MITIE Technical Facilities 839,455 locally agreed syllabus, or use a syllabus which has been Management agreed by their governing body. It is the responsibility NPS and Atkins Technical advice for 1 million of the head teacher, governors and local authorities Academies (LAs) to make the necessary provisions for RE in all Cap Gemini Schools Data Collect 250,000 maintained schools. System (code upgrade) Cap Gemini National Pupil Database 384,000 The Government do not intend to make any changes Cap Gemini Annual upgrade to 179,974 to the statutory basis for RE. Children Looked After (CLA) system Cap Gemini Information Work Place 708,870 Departmental Procurement (IWP). Development and preparation for potential G-Cloud Service Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Cap Gemini Children in Need (collect 148,000 Education what single tender contracts his Department development and testing) has awarded since his appointment; and what the Cap Gemini Annual Census Collection 230,000 monetary value is of each contract above the EU (collect Schools Work public procurement threshold. [36278] Force) Cap Gemini Information Work Place 350,000 (IWP—support) Tim Loughton: The Department does not maintain a Cap Gemini Further development E 696,000 central record of all single tenders and a complete channels external web answer could be provided only at disproportionate costs. content for education sector However, from the information we do hold centrally, I Cap Gemini Annual Census Collection 202,845 can provide the following list of single tenders: 1011W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1012W

Single tenders over the EU threshold organisations for use in constructing measures of Contractor Description of contract Value (£) achievement in the school and college performance RM Data Solutions National Pupil Database 8.3 million tables. Achievement and We believe there is a clear danger that modularisation Attainment Tables and re-sits are undermining confidence in the grades awarded in key examinations and are undermining in-depth Education study. We have asked the qualifications regulator Ofqual to look at the impact of recent changes to A-levels and whether further action is needed to ensure that re-sitting Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for does not become widespread and undermine confidence Education (1) with reference to page 22 of his in the exams. We have also asked the regulator to advise Department’s Business Plan 2011-2015, what his policy on how to bring an end to modular GCSEs and return is on the publication of information on readiness to to a system where students are examined on everything progress to next stage of schooling by (a) school, (b) they have learnt at the end of their course. local authority and (c) nationally for children aged five years; and if he will make a statement; [42968] Education: Music (2) whether he has made an assessment of the effects of publication of information on readiness to progress Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for to next stage of schooling by (a) school, (b) local Education what assessment he has made of the trends authority and (c) nationally for children aged five in the teaching of musical instruments in schools and years on levels of mental stress of (i) children, (ii) the effect of such trends on the playing of musical school staff and (iii) parents. [42969] instruments by children. [39012]

Tim Loughton: Although the draft transparency section Tim Loughton: In 2007 the Department for Children of the Department for Education draft business plan Schools and Families published a report, ‘Local Authority published in November suggested that achievements of Music Services Provision (2007) for Key Stage 1 and 2’ children at the end of the early years foundation stage which collected data relating to the implementation of (EYFS) might be published at school level in addition an initiative which aimed to widen opportunities for to data already published on children’s attainment at pupils to learn a musical instrument. The study revealed the end of the primary school phase, this is not our that 73% of responding local authorities in England intention. The final version of the business plan will had introduced whole class instrumental tuition. The contain definitions of our impact indicators and the percentage of Key Stage 1 and Key Stage 2 schools data we will publish to increase transparency. Information receiving regular instrumental or vocal tuition was 71%. about children’s achievement at age five has been published In its 2009 report “Making More of Music, An at local authority and national level since 2003 and our evaluation of Music in schools 2005/08”, Ofsted reported plan is to continue to publish the information in this that the best instrumental/vocal programmes were making way. a real difference to pupils’ musical education, but not all The Department has not undertaken research on the the programmes were of sufficient duration or quality impact of publication of this information on levels of to have a lasting impact. mental stress. The Secretary of State for Education asked Darren Henley to carry out a review of music education in Education: Assessments September 2010. The Henley Review, together with the Government’s response, was published on 7 February 2011. It announces funding for music services of Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for £82.5 million in 2011-12 and the publication of a national Education (1) what estimate he has made of the plan for music education. average number of separate (a) AS, (b) A2 and (c) A level examination or other evaluation sittings taken per Education: Reform student by the end of year 13 in maintained schools and sixth form colleges in academic year (i) 1996-97 Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for and (ii) 2009-10; [27595] Education what information schools will no longer be (2) what estimate he has made of the average number required to collect after the implementation of his of separate GCSE examinations or other evaluation proposed education reforms. [36823] sittings taken per student by the end of school year 11 in academic year (a) 1996-97 and (b) 2009-10; [27597] Mr Gibb: The Government are determined to reduce the data collection burden imposed on schools. To (3) what the average number of public examination ensure that bureaucracy is kept to a minimum and that entries per student was in maintained schools and sixth the value outweighs the burden, the central collection of form colleges in school year (a) 10, (b) 11, (c) 12 and information from schools is kept under constant review. (d) 13 in academic year (i) 1996-97 and (ii) 2009-10. Some collections have ceased in recent months and [27600] more are likely to do so as the result of a root and branch review of all the Department’s data collections Mr Gibb: The information requested is not held from schools. For example, we have already ended the centrally. The Department does not hold information Making Good Progress collection, the School and Local on individual examinations or modules sat by pupils Authority Target Setting (SaLTs) collection and the towards achieving qualifications. Only the grade awarded Contact Module in the School Census. These changes for the overall qualification is collected from awarding are just the start of an ongoing programme of work and 1013W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1014W our intention is to reduce burdens further. We will Extracurricular Activities: Impact Assessments ensure that any collections that remain reflect Government priorities and White Paper commitments. Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether an impact assessment was made of Educational Visits the decision of the Training Development Agency to discontinue its support to local authorities in respect of the extended services programme. [35507] Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what regulatory requirements apply to Mr Gibb: The Training and Development Agency’s teachers wishing to take their class on a visit out of remit from the Department was to support all schools school. [33264] to become extended service schools by September 2010. It was a time-limited programme with a clear end point. Mr Gibb: Teachers wishing to take their class out of No separate decision to end the support which would school on an educational visit are subject to the have required an impact assessment to be completed Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations was made. 1999. There are no further national regulations specific to such visits, though employers (local authorities for Free Schools community, voluntary-controlled and community special schools; governing bodies or trusts for other schools) Andy Burnham: To ask the Secretary of State for can have local rules and guidance, which their schools Education how many communications officials of his must adhere to. In accordance with the recommendations Department were working of free schools in the latest in the Government’s report, “Common Sense Common period for which figures are available. [37979] Safety” (October 2010), the Department for Education Mr Gibb [holding answer 3 February 2011]: The is working with the Health and Safety Executive to help Department’s communications directorate is not structured schools comply with their duty of care in a sensible and to dedicate full-time individuals or teams on any one proportionate way. This includes developing succinct policy. Their model for delivery is to work across a guidance on all aspects of health and safety in schools broad range of projects in parallel when required. A including for educational visits. We are also supporting number of communications officials have therefore been the Health and Safety Executive to develop a code of engaged in free schools’ policy at different stages. practice for off-site adventure activities (to take the place of validation by the Adventure Activities Licensing Emma Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Authority). Education how many of the 35 proposals for free schools are in the 35 most deprived areas. [39678] English Baccalaureate: Crafts Mr Gibb: As at 9 February 2011, there are 40 proposals approved to business case and plan stage. Of these, Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for 10 are in the 35 most deprived local authority areas. Education what recent discussions he has had with representatives of (a) Firing Up and (b) organisations GCE A-level seeking to introduce craft skills to schools in developing his proposals for the English Baccalaureate. Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for [39102] Education how many pupils achieved three or more A grades at A level in each local education authority in Mr Gibb: Neither I nor the Secretary of State for England in each year between 2003 and 2010. [28643] Education have had discussions with Firing Up or any organisations seeking to introduce craft skills to schools Mr Gibb: The information available has been placed in developing proposals for the English Baccalaureate. in the House Libraries. Mr Brady: To ask the Secretary of State for English Baccalaureate: Religion Education what assessment his Department has made of the relative academic merits of A Level Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for qualifications in different subjects for the purposes of Education if he will assess the effect on teaching of gaining admission to universities; and what research his religious education of not including it in the definition Department has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated of the English Baccalaureate for the purposes of school on this subject. [42672] performance tables. [38974] Mr Willetts [holding answer 3 March 2011]: Ihave Mr Gibb: While religious studies GCSE will not been asked to reply. count towards the English Baccalaureate the teaching Higher education institutions are independent and of religious education remains compulsory throughout autonomous organisations. Decisions about admission, a pupil’s schooling. However we will continue to monitor including the importance and requirement of different the teaching of religious education as we do at present A-Levels for different courses, are a matter for individual through the School Workforce Census, which will collect universities, and not for Government. information annually on the subjects being taught by all We have welcomed the publication of information by teachers in maintained secondary schools, through trends the Russell Group on the value of different A-Levels in GCSE entry, and through Ofsted’s triennial subject contained in its new guidance on post-16 study choices survey report of religious education which will look at ‘Informed Choices’ published, in collaboration with the the quality of teaching. Institute of Careers Guidance, on 4 February 2011. 1015W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1016W

GCE AS-level Office of the Schools Adjudicator: Complaints

Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what plans he has for the future Education (1) how many complaints the Office of the participation of sixth form students in AS level Schools Adjudicator received relating to the examinations; and if he will make a statement. [34987] Admissions Code for secondary schools for (a) Academies and (b) other secondary schools in each of Mr Gibb: The Government set out in the White Paper the last three years; and how many (i) schools and (ii) “The Importance of Teaching” their commitment to year 7 pupils there were in each category in each year; restore A levels to their place as rigorous, highly respected [37042] qualifications. (2) how many complaints were received by the Office The Government believe there is a danger that of the Schools Adjudicator relating to the application modularisation and multiple re-sits are undermining of the admissions code for secondary schools in respect confidence in grades awarded in key exams and of (a) Church of England schools, (b) Catholic undermining in-depth study.We have asked the independent schools, (c) other faith schools and (d) other qualifications regulator, Ofqual, to examine the impact secondary schools in each of the last three years; and of recent changes to A levels and consider how we can how many (i) schools and (ii) year 7 pupils there were in ensure that the number of re-sits is minimised. We will each such category of school in each year. [37046] also consider whether linear A levels should be available Mr Gibb: Objections in respect of Academies are to test the depth of students’ understanding. dealt with by the Young Persons Learning Agency, with advice from the Office of the Schools Adjudicator GCSE which the YPLA is required to follow unless otherwise directed by the Secretary of State for Education. As Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for signalled in the White Paper—The Importance of Education what proportion of GCSE students in each Teaching—we intend to change this so that the Office of local authority area attainedaCgradeorabovein(a) the Schools Adjudicator will review specific complaints mathematics, (b) English and (c) mathematics and about admission arrangements for all schools including English in each year from 1990 to 2009; and if he will Academies and Free Schools. make a statement. [24360] Between 1 April and 31 December 2010 the YPLA dealt with one complaint about the admission arrangements Mr Gibb: The requested information from 1994 to of Academies. Information is not available prior to this 2009 has been placed in the House Libraries. Information point. from 1990 to 1993 can be provided only at disproportionate The following table gives the number of objections cost. received broken down by type of school for each of the last three years. Members: Correspondence Complaints received by OSA re application of the admissions code Other Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State secondary for Education when he expects to reply to the letter CofE RC Other faith schools from the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North 2010 6 9 2 241 of 10 December 2010 on the English Baccalaureate. 2009 6 11 5 83 [38479] 2008 14 18 8 85 Mr Gibb [holding answer 4 February 2011]: Following The number of objections do not directly relate to the discussion, the hon. Member has clarified that the letter number of schools in an area as it is possible for referred to in her question was not sent to the Secretary prescribed person to object to the admission arrangements of State for Education on 10 December, but on 2 December. in an entire local authority area. There were 58 such A reply to this letter was issued on 8 February and the objections in 2010, 16 in 2009 and 26 in 2008. hon. Member has confirmed she has received this. I The following tables provide the number of schools apologise for the delay in the response. and pupils.

Number of state-funded secondary schools1,2 by religious character and the number of pupils in national curriculum year group 7 attending those schools, in January each year—England Secondary schools1,2 Year 7 pupils3 Other (no Other (no Church of Other religious Church of religious England Catholic Faith4 character) England Catholic Other Faith4 character)

2008 202 337 65 2,779 29,290 54,830 8,640 459,570 2009 205 334 71 2,751 30,620 55,280 10,320 466,590 2010 207 331 78 2,717 30,350 54,010 11,740 453,630 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 3 Excludes dually registered pupils. 4 Includes schools of mixed denomination or other Christian beliefs. Note: Pupil numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10. Source: School Census and Edubase 1017W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1018W

Number of academies and secondary schools and the number of pupils in The spending review confirmed that all three and four- national curriculum year group 7 attending those schools, in January each year— England year-olds will continue to receive 15 hours of free early Secondary schools Year 7 pupils1 education per week, delivered more flexibly. Funding Other Other for free early education places for three and four-year-olds secondary secondary is provided through the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG), Academies schools2,3 Academies schools2,3 which supports the majority of education provision for 2008 83 3,300 14,050 538,270 children aged three to 16. Local authorities, in consultation 2009 133 3,228 22,240 540,570 with their Schools Forum, decide how best to distribute 2010 203 3,130 33,550 516,180 funding across their locality, and local authorities set 1 Excludes dually registered pupils. their own local rates of funding to early years providers. 2 Includes middle schools as deemed. No national funding allocation figure is available. 3 Includes city technology colleges. Note: The spending review statement also included a Pupil numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10. commitment to extending the entitlement to free early Source: education to all disadvantaged two-year-olds from 2013. School Census The investment over the next four years will be: £64 million Pen Green Children and Families Research Centre in 2011-12; £233 million in 2012-13; £331 million in 2013-14; and, £380 million in 2014-15. For the first two Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for years of the spending review period, this funding will be Education what (a) representations he has received provided to local authorities through the Early Intervention and (b) discussions he has had on the funding of Pen Grant. Green Children and Families Research Centre. [39464] Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Sarah Teather: I have received a number of Education from which of his Department’s budgets representations from pen green centre for children and funding for the expansion of free early years provision their families and from those involved with the centre to 3 and 4 year olds will be drawn. [37959] about funding. The Government have ensured there is Sarah Teather: The Government extended free early enough money in the system to maintain the network of education to three and four-year-olds, from 12.5 hours Sure Start children’s centres, however, it is for local to 15 hours a week, from September 2010, and pledged authorities, in consultation with local communities to through the spending review to protect this free provision. determine the most effective way of delivering future The extension has been funded in the current financial services to meet local need. They have a duty to consult year through the Standards Fund. From April 2011, before opening, closing or significantly changing children’s funding will be provided through the Dedicated Schools centres and to secure sufficient centre provision to meet Grant (DSG), which supports the majority of education local need so far as is reasonably practical. provision for children aged three to 16. Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education Primary Education: Teachers Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Education pursuant to the answer of 13 December for Education whether he plans to use the expansion of 2010, Official Report, column 572W, on health Teach First to primary school level to increase the education, for what reasons the review of Personal, proportion of teachers who are male. [35237] Social, Health and Economic education is to be an internal review; and if he will make a statement. Mr Gibb [holding answer 25 January 2011]: The [37989] expansion of Teach First in Primary is not to increase the number of male teachers in primary schools. In Mr Gibb [holding answer 4 February 2011]: The selecting the best possible candidates, Teach First is review of Personal, Social, Health and Economic education concerned with the quality of applicants and their is described as “internal” to reflect that it will be led by suitability for the programme. the Department and not an external body or panel. Further decisions relating to the process and timescale Progress Project for the internal PSHE review have not yet been taken. The Department for Education is currently considering Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for options and further information will be available in due Education how much funding was allocated to the course. Progress project administered by the Children’s Workforce Development Council in each region in Pre-school Education: Finance 2010-11. [41011] Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Tim Loughton [holding answer 15 February 2011]: A Education what estimate he has made of the level of total of £2,122,750 has been allocated to the regions funding to be allocated to early years education for under the Progress project as follows: children from disadvantaged families in each of the next three years; and if he will make a statement. £ [37500] Project Accreditation Region administration Training delivery bursaries Sarah Teather: The Government’s recent funding East 32,750 200,000 4,000 announcements reflect our commitment to ensuring all East Midlands 32,750 200,000 2,000 children, particularly those from the most disadvantaged London 32,750 200,000 4,000 backgrounds, have access to high quality early education. 1019W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1020W

Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for £ Education whether his Department plans to run boot Project Accreditation Region administration Training delivery bursaries camp-style pilot schemes for excluded pupils in (a) England and (b) Merseyside. [44032] North East 32,750 200,000 1,000 North West 32,750 200,000 4,000 Mr Gibb [holding answer 3 March 2011]: The South East 32,750 200,000 2,000 Department has no plans to run boot camp style pilot South West 32,750 200,000 3,000 schemes for excluded pupils in either Merseyside or West Midlands 32,750 200,000 5,000 anywhere else. We will however, be making £1.5 million Yorkshire and 32,750 200,000 3,000 grant to the charity SkillForce to run three programmes Humberside aimed at using the skills and experience of ex-service Totals 294,750 1,800,000 28,000 personnel to help young people either excluded or at risk of exclusion. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for The three programmes to run from September 2011 Education if he will continue to fund the Progress will: project administered by the Children’s Workforce Expand the core SkillForce programme working with Development Council in 2011-12 and 2012-13. [41012] disadvantaged pupils struggling with their behaviour and/or academic achievement; Tim Loughton [holding answer 15 February 2011]: Run a Zero Exclusion pilot of intensive support to 100 pupils The Progress project is part of a three-year programme at risk of exclusion; of development for the young people’s work force which Train 100 ex-service personnel to work as mentors for young is coming to a natural end in March 2011. It has people in and out of schools across England. succeeded making a significant contribution to the SkillForce deliver inspiring programmes that increase environment and infrastructure for the work force to the number of young people entering further education, develop and work together effectively. It is now for the employment and training on leaving school. It helps sector and employers to build upon the outcomes of the young people earn vocational qualifications, and develop programme and to manage their development in order life skills through appropriate and structured classroom to best meet local needs. and outdoor activities. Pupil Exclusions Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether his Department plans to seek Education what plans his Department has to provide tenders from (a) businesses and (b) existing providers school appeal panels with the power to insist that a to run special units and alternative provision for excluded pupils. [44033] school reinstates a suspended pupil. [38090]

Mr Gibb: As set out in the Education Bill introduced Mr Gibb [holding answer 3 March 2011]: The current on 26 January 2011, we are proposing changes to the Education Bill includes provisions to encourage more exclusion system. The Bill will reform the unduly adversarial private and voluntary sector involvement in alternative process which can sometimes follow when a head teacher provision by creating the opportunity for them to establish must, as a last resort, exclude a pupil. It will establish free schools. independent review panels to replace the current The Department has already received a number of independent appeal panels. applications from organisations who wish to establish A review panel will be able to direct a school’s governing free schools specifically for those pupils who are excluded body to reconsider a permanent exclusion decision but from mainstream school or are at risk of exclusion and it will not be able to direct the governors to reinstate the we are working with these organisations to establish pupil. Review panels will have the power to impose a suitable criteria for this type of provision. Once these financial penalty in circumstances where a school whose criteria have been agreed we will invite more applications decision was quashed by the panel reconsidered the from both new and established organisations, subject to exclusion but still decided not to reinstate the pupil. parliamentary approval of the Education Bill.

Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for Pupils: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Education what progress his Department has made on its plans to improve discipline in schools by providing Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for alternative provisions in special units for excluded Education how many children under the age of pupils. [44031] 11 years received support in schools as a result of a diagnosis of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in Mr Gibb [holding answer 3 March 2011]: The current each of the last five years. [39193] Education Bill includes provisions to encourage more private and voluntary sector involvement in alternative Mr Gibb: Information on attention deficit hyperactivity provision by creating the opportunity for them to establish disorder is not available. free schools that deliver alternative provision more effectively A table showing the number of pupils with statements and economically. The Bill also includes provisions for of special educational needs or at School Action Plus pupil referral units (PRUs), to apply for academy status. whose primary need has been identified as behavioural, The Education Bill also includes provisions which emotional and social difficulties (BESD) is provided. empower teachers and heads to enforce discipline, and Pupils with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder as for heads’ decisions to exclude not to be overturned. their primary need are included in the BESD category. 1021W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1022W

Maintained primary1, state-funded secondary1, 2 and special3 schools: number Sebastian James has a great deal of experience in and percentage of pupils4 whose primary type of need is BESD5, under the age of 116, as at January each year, England driving out inefficiency and maximising value for money Maintained Stale-funded in the retail sector, making him a good choice to chair Primary1 Secondary1, 2 Special3 the capital review. He is currently the Group Operations Number Percentage Number Percentage Number Percentage Director of DSG International plc leading both the of of pupils of of pupils of of pupils Retail and Services teams, as well as being responsible BESD with BESD with BESD with pupils BESD7 pupils BESD7 pupils BESD7 for the supply chain. Previously, as Group Development Director, Sebastian managed the Currys store building 2006 54,910 18.5 940 22.1 2,790 9.1 and transformation programme. In both roles he has 2007 55,840 18.5 930 21.6 2,780 9.2 been responsible for significantly improving quality and 2008 57,930 18.6 900 21.1 2,880 9.5 customer experience while reducing costs by over 25%. 2009 56,760 18.5 930 21.0 2,820 9.4 As Strategy Director for Mothercare plc Sebastian had 2010 60,850 18.5 1,140 21.4 2,840 9.4 responsibility for developing and implementing the 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. turnaround strategy at Mothercare plc. He was also 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 3 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools. Excludes general involved, as operating partner, in the foundation of hospital schools. eGS, a leading e-Government procurement platform. 4 Excludes dually registered pupils. 5 Pupils at School Action Plus and those pupils with a statement of SEN Terms of reference for the review of capital provided information on their primary need and, if appropriate, their secondary need. Information on primary need only is given here. Purpose 6 Age as at 31 August of the previous year. 1. To review, in the context of the Government’s fiscal consolidation 7 Number of pupils with BESD as their primary need expressed as a percentage of all pupils at School Action Plus or with a statement of SEN in the same plans and emerging policy, the Department’s existing capital school type. expenditure and make recommendations on the future delivery Note: models for capital investment for 2011-12 onwards. Numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10. Source: 2. The overall aim of the review is to ensure that future capital School census. investment represents good value for money and strongly supports the Government’s ambitions to reduce the deficit, raise standards Reading and tackle disadvantage. Scope Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for 3. The review will consider how all DfE capital expenditure Education what resources his Department has provided within any spending constraint and PFI policy could be distributed to encourage reading of books by pre-school children. more effectively over the next spending review period (2011-12 to [33171] 2014-15). The review will be broken down into four main Sarah Teather: The Government recognise the importance strands: of reading and language development in the early years. Allocation of capital funds The Early Years Foundations Stage (EYFS) framework requires providers (unless exempt) who care for children To evaluate the extent to which value for money has been from birth to five to support and extend their reading, achieved in capital expenditure to date; writing and communication skills. By the end of the to consider how to generate sufficient places to allow new EYFS, children are expected to link sounds to letters, providers to enter the state school system in response to name and sound the letters of the alphabet and read parental demand; independently a range of familiar and common words to review current methods of allocating capital (for example, and simple sentences. by formula to local authorities); All three and four-year-olds are entitled to 15 hours to consider options for reflecting Government policies on per week of free early education. We also announced in carbon reduction; and the spending review that this will also be extended, to enable the establishment of new schools. subject to legislation, to every disadvantaged two-year-old. Distribution of capital investment This investment will ensure that all young children— particularly the most disadvantaged—reap the benefits To assess the scope and make recommendations for how to of early education in terms of their cognitive and social distribute capital more efficiently and less expensively, including simplification of procurement, and increased use of standard development, readiness for school and later educational and modular design; attainment. to develop a clear understanding of current approach, waste Early learning also takes place within the family. and issues associated; Since 2004 my Department has funded the Booktrust. to consider the relationship between schools, local government and central Government; School Capital Funding to increase choice locally determined by parental demand; to review the current procurement/delivery models, including: Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the selection criteria were for the the use of frameworks to deliver capital (currently used for position of Chair of the review of school capital academies and a third of BSF projects); and funding. [39668] the BSF Investments (BSFI) investment vehicle to review the roles of bodies involved, specifically DfE, Partnerships Mr Gibb: The chair of the capital review was selected for Schools (PfS), local authorities, the local education partnerships for the depth and range of his experience and expertise (LEPs) and National Framework; and relevant to the terms of reference for the review as to provide recommendations for central structure required to follows. manage the distribution of capital investment. 1023W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1024W

School Meals carries guidance issued by the Royal Society of Chemistry. Such advice can also be obtained from CLEAPSS (a Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for subscription-based source of expertise in science safety) Education what plans he has to ensure that every child at: receives a balanced and healthy school lunch. [35558] http://www.cleapss.org.uk/ Data about safety records may be available from the Sarah Teather: It is absolutely vital that schools continue local authorities within a region since local authorities, to serve healthy food and make sure their pupils are as employers, are ultimately responsible for health and eating well. That is why we have committed to retain the safety in their schools. school food standards and continue to fund the School Food Trust to provide support and advice to schools on Schools: Vetting the standards and on improving their school meals services. Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for In 2011-12, the School Lunch Grant is being rolled Education whether school caretakers will be subject to into the Dedicated Schools Grant to enable the continued vetting under the Government’s proposed new provision of healthy lunches, which will also support arrangements for child protection. [43271] the increase of school lunch take up. Decisions about taking a school lunch are ultimately Tim Loughton [holding answer 2 March 2011]: Yes, for families to make, taking the costs and benefits into under the Government’s proposed new arrangements account. for the vetting and barring scheme (VBS) school caretakers will still fall within the new definition of ‘regulated Schools: Discipline activity’, and will have to be vetted.

Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Schools: Vocational Guidance Education what powers are available to head teachers in respect of controlling the behaviour of pupils on Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for their way to and from school. [38089] Education if he will bring forward proposals to improve schools careers advice in North Swindon Mr Gibb: Under section 89 of the Education and constituency. [36140] Inspections Act 2006, schools can discipline their pupils for bad behaviour that occurs on their journey to and Mr Gibb: We intend to restore a focus on specialist from school and any bad behaviour that happens off expertise in careers guidance for young people and the school premises if it is reported to them. adults based on the core principles of independence Schools: Holocaust Memorial Day and professionalism. Schools will take responsibility for securing access to independent and impartial careers guidance. They will have freedom to fulfil this requirement Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for in ways that best suit the needs of their students. Education what steps the Government took to mark Holocaust Memorial Day 2011 in schools and colleges; Special Educational Needs and if he will make a statement. [38113] Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gibb: Holocaust Memorial Day reminds us of Education whether he has plans to collect and publish the lessons of the holocaust and the consequences of data on pupil achievement by type of disability. [37900] allowing prejudice to grow. The Department funds the Holocaust Educational Trust’s Lessons from Auschwitz Sarah Teather: The 2011 School Census enabled schools project, which provides for two students (aged 16-18) in England to provide information on the disability of from every school/sixth form college in England to visit children on a voluntary basis. This is in addition to the Auschwitz-Birkenau. Many of the students who participate mandatory provision of information by primary type of on the project will have marked Holocaust Memorial SEN. Future collection and publication arrangements Day in their schools and local communities across the for data on disability will be considered in the light of country. data and feedback collected in response to January Schools: Laboratories 2011 School Census returns which will become available in the spring. Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Similarly, a decision on whether to publish information Education what recent assessment he has made of on pupil achievement by type of disability will be made health and safety requirements in school laboratories in following analysis of the completeness of data received England; and what information his Department holds through the School Census. on the safety record of such laboratories in the North East. [36825] Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether he plans to provide funding for the Mr Gibb: The Department does not assess health and post of Augmentative and Alternative Communication safety requirements in individual school laboratories or Co-ordinator beyond March 2011. [38002] collect data on regional safety records. Advice about the law relating to risk management, and about the good Sarah Teather: We are taking decisions about funding practice that assists compliance, may be obtained from for activities to support children and young people with the Health and Safety Executive, whose website, at: special educational needs and disabilities, including those http://www.hse.gov.uk/index.htm relating to augmentative and alternative communication, 1025W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1026W in the context of our Green Paper on Special Educational Sarah Teather [holding answer 15 February 2011]: Needs and Disabilities to be published shortly. The Department for Education does not currently collect data on the administration costs of Sure Start Children’s Special Educational Needs: Hearing Impairment Centres nationally. We have consulted on changes to data which local Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities are required to report on their expenditure Education if he will estimate the number of deaf pupils on children’s services. From 2011-12, local authority who are not recorded as having a special educational expenditure on Sure Start Children’s Centres will be need. [37899] published, including how much funding is held back for local authority central administration costs, and how Sarah Teather: It is not possible for the Department much is spent on front line services. to reliably estimate the number of deaf pupils who are not recorded as having a special educational need. Teachers: Registration Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what plans his Department has to require Education what plans he has for the future of the local authorities to collect data on the (a) achievement registered teacher programme. [25801] and (b) attainment of deaf children. [39561] Mr Gibb: We have stated our intention in the Schools Sarah Teather: The Department does not require White Paper 2010 “The Importance of Teaching” to local authorities to provide specific information on deaf reform the way in which initial teacher training (ITT) is children. performed and funded to improve the quality of teachers The Special Educational Needs Information Act (2008) and teaching. The document sets out a number of steps requires the annual publication of information about which will be taken to achieve this including reforming children in England with special educational needs. The ITT so that more training is in the classroom. We are information published includes local authority data on therefore currently reviewing all the routes into teaching, outcomes for these children by SEN type, including including the Registered Teacher Programme. We will hearing impairment, at key stages 2 and 4 in English, publish for consultation a discussion document early in maths and science. 2011 on our detailed proposals for ITT from academic The Schools White Paper “The Importance of Teaching” year 2012/13. set out our intention to publish easy to understand data about how well pupils achieve so that schools and local Teachers: Rights of Accused authority areas are more accountable to parents. The Green Paper on special educational needs and disabilities Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for will explore how to increase transparency so that parents Education whether staff working in (a) sixth form know how their child is to be supported and how their colleges and (b) further education colleges will be child is progressing. given anonymity when accused of an offence by students aged 18 and under, on the same basis as is Sure Start Programme proposed for school teachers in paragraph 3.6 of the White Paper, The Importance of Teaching. [34986] Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether he plans to revise the core universal Mr Gibb: The commitment in the Schools White offer set by his Department for Sure Start children’s Paper, “The Importance of Teaching”, currently applies centres. [39466] only to teachers in schools. This is because teachers are particularly vulnerable to the damage that maliciously Sarah Teather: Sure Start children’s centres have a intended or false allegations can have on their careers critical role to play in their communities and remain at and personal lives. School teachers are responsible the heart of the Government’s vision for early intervention. for the discipline of pupils in their classrooms and as We aim to retain a national network of Sure Start such may on occasion need to use reasonable force to children’s centres with a core universal offer but with a prevent pupils committing a criminal offence, greater emphasis on delivering proven early intervention injuring themselves or others, damaging property or to programmes to support families in greatest need. We maintain good order and discipline. There is a are exploring ways to move beyond the current core perception that some children feel they can make offer to give children’s centres greater flexibility to respond allegations without any thought to the consequences to the needs of families in their area. We are exploring, for the teacher concerned, because they know it is with experts from the sector, how we can focus more unlikely they will be punished for making a false clearly on the core purpose of children’s centres and the allegation. Where allegations are found to have been outcomes we want to see, particularly for the most made maliciously the clearing of the teacher’s name disadvantaged groups. may be scant consolation for the trauma suffered through the social stigma attached to having been suspected of Sure Start Programme: Liverpool abusing or hurting a child. There may be arguments that the wider children’s workforce, including those Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for working in sixth form or further education colleges, can Education what the average administration costs of also be vulnerable to such allegations and I intend to Sure Start children’s centres were in Liverpool in the keep under consideration the possibility of widening latest period for which figures are available. [41081] the scope of the anonymity protection. 1027W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1028W

Teachers: Vocational Guidance Written Questions: Government Responses

Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether his Department undertook an Education when he plans to answer question 37370, on impact assessment in respect of the changes to the regulations removed by his Department, tabled on number of Training Development Agency staff who 26 January 2011 for answer on 31 January. [42698] provide specialist careers advice to people wishing to Tim Loughton: A response was issued to the hon. train as teachers. [35198] Member on 28 February, Official Report, columns 259- 260W. Mr Gibb: As part of the Government’s spending efficiencies in this financial year, all current programmes Youth Services: Finance offering information, advice and guidance to those interested in a teaching career were reviewed by the Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Training and Development Agency for Schools (TDA), Education what statutory duties local authorities are in discussion with the Department. required to meet in respect of the early intervention The regional careers advisers programme was one of grant. [38782] a range of activities that TDA offered. The careers Sarah Teather [holding answer 7 February 2011]: The advisers had been contracted by the TDA and were not Government have committed to investment and reform full-time TDA employees. Their role was to offer in early intervention at a time of financial constraint— independent specialist careers advice to career changers. intervening early makes sense socially, morally and With the availability of independent careers advice from financially. The Early intervention Grant is intended to other sources offered nationally, TDA concluded that fund universal programmes and activities available to this programme was no longer a priority. all children, young people and families, as well as specialist UN Convention on the Rights of the Child services where intensive support is needed. However, it is up to local authorities in consultation with their local Peter Bottomley: To ask the Secretary of State for communities to prioritise the type and distribution of Education what mechanisms exist for the co-ordination services subject to their statutory duties. of the implementation in the UK of the Government’s There are no statutory duties specifically attached to obligations under the UN convention on the rights of the funding in the Early Intervention Grant, due to the the child. [18583] un-ringfenced nature of the grant. The Early Intervention Grant may be used to fulfil statutory duties such as Sarah Teather: Since ratification in 1991, Governments Sure Start and Short Break services but local authorities have implemented the UN convention on the rights of can meet the requirements of their statutory duties the child through a mixture of legislation and policy through a combination of all their funding, subject to initiatives. This Government take their obligations to local priorities. As the Early Intervention Grant is the implementation of the convention very seriously. In un-ringfenced, it provides the freedom and flexibility line with devolved powers, each of the devolved local authorities need to make savings while protecting Administrations implements the UN Committee’s the services that are most important to their residents. concluding observations within the context of their own national requirements. As state party, the Westminster Government are WORK AND PENSIONS responsible for overall compliance with and co-ordination Council Tax Benefits of the convention across the UK. The Department for Education leads the implementation of the convention Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in England, and works with children’s organisations, and Pensions what estimate he has made of the likely the devolved Administrations, and other Government budget for council tax benefit in each year to 2014-15. Departments to co-ordinate UK-wide progress and report [45172] on the convention. Steve Webb: The nominal figures for estimated council Vocational Education: GCSE tax benefit expenditure are as follows:

Ms Gisela Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for Forecasted nominal CTB expenditure (£ Education by what date he expects BTEC or equivalent million) as of autumn 2010 qualifications to be included as part of the school 2010-11 4,958 attainment measure of five GCSE grades at A* to C 2011-12 4,876 including English and mathematics. [32585] 2012-13 4,939 2013-14 4,449 Mr Gibb: BTEC or equivalent qualifications are included 2014-15 4,537 in the school attainment measures of five GCSEs at A*-C including English and mathematics that were Departmental Carbon Emissions published in the Performance Tables on 12 January 2011. These equivalent qualifications have been included Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in school attainment measures since 2004 and in the five and Pensions how much his Department spent on GCSE grades at A*-C including English and maths carbon offsetting in each of the last three years; and to measure since it was introduced into performance tables which companies payments for carbon offsetting were in 2006. made in each such year. [40524] 1029W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1030W

Chris Grayling: I refer the hon. Member to the answer on 18 February. All working age recipients of disability given by the Minister of State, Department of Energy living allowance will be reassessed against the conditions and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for of entitlement to personal independence payment over Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) on 16 February a three-year period beginning in 2013. 2011, Official Report, column 853W. As the new assessment for personal independence Departmental Conditions of Employment payment and the process for reassessing the existing DLA case load are still being developed, I am unable, at Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work this stage, to provide a precise estimate for the number and Pensions what assessment he has made of his of people affected. Department’s adherence to each of the principles of good employment practice set out in the Cabinet Office Employment Schemes: Disability publication Principles of Good Employment Practice. [42623] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to Chris Grayling: Since the publication of the Principles support disabled people seeking work. [44182] of Good Employment Practice in December 2010, the Department for Work and Pensions has reviewed its Maria Miller: We are committed to ensuring that procurement policy and practice to confirm they comply disabled people have the same employment opportunities with the six principles. These complement the DWP and chances as everyone else to find and stay in work, Supplier Charter and guide the Department’s discussions regardless of their disability or benefit status. and relationships with its suppliers on contracting As part of this commitment, the Department for arrangements. Work and Pensions is responsible for a range of employment Departmental Responsibilities provision specifically aimed at disabled people. Work Choice, which was launched in October last year, provides Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for tailored support to help disabled people who face the most Work and Pensions if he will publish details of all new complex barriers to employment find and stay in work and units or teams established within his Department since ultimately help them progress into unsupported employment, May 2010, including the (a) name, (b) purpose, (c) where it is appropriate for the individual. Work Choice is voluntary staffing levels and (d) total annual operational costs in and available regardless of any benefits being claimed. each such case. [38407] Access to Work—provides practical advice and financial support to employed disabled people above and beyond what the employer could reasonably provide, to help them overcome obstacles resulting Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions from disability and thus stay in work. is currently going through a period of organisational review. As part of this, teams and units will naturally In addition, Remploy is an Executive Non Departmental merge and reform in order to ensure it provides efficient Public Body sponsored by the Department for Work and effective services. and Pensions. It delivers a range of employment and development opportunities for disabled people under An exception to this is the Universal Credit Directorate, the Work Choice programme. formed in November 2010 to replace six income replacement benefits with a simple, efficient universal credit, designed The Department for Work and Pensions also funds to make work pay. In 2011-12, a budget of £6.6 million residential training for unemployed disabled adults whose has been allocated for 99 existing staff, who are working needs cannot be met through any other Government to develop and implement universal credit in a way that funded programmes. offers our customers a fast, modern and seamless service. Later this year, the Work programme will be introduced This team will be responsible for the management of which will provide more personalised back-to-work support the programme including liaison with local authorities for unemployed people, including disabled people. and other Government Departments, designing and Contributory ESA customers will be able to volunteer developing business processes, communications and for the Work programme, and if they wish, remain on planning for the delivery of the new universal credit. As the programme after their benefit has come to an end, the programme progresses, there will be a need for more ensuring that they receive all the support they need to teams to administrate it, but the details on that have still help them return to work. to be decided. The Work programme will be complemented by a Disability Living Allowance new Jobcentre Plus offer which will allow more flexibility to Jobcentre Plus managers and advisers to judge which Bob Blackman: To ask the Secretary of State for interventions will help individual customers, including Work and Pensions how many people in (a) London, disabled customers, most cost effectively and meet local (b) Harrow East constituency and (c) the UK will be need. Jobcentre Plus will continue to work closely with affected by the changes in the mobility component of local health services, supported by disability employment disability living allowance. [41394] advisers and work psychologists. I also commissioned an independent review of the Maria Miller: As was announced at publication of support the Government provides to disabled people the Welfare Reform Bill on 17 February, the Government’s who want to work. This review is being conducted by intention is to bring in any change to the mobility Liz Sayce, chief executive of the disability organisation component as part of the wider reform of disability RADAR and will report in the summer 2011, with living allowance (DLA). Consultation on wider reform recommendations on how existing specialist employment of DLA with the key proposal of a new benefit to be support for disabled people can better serve the known as personal independence payment concluded Department’s wide ranging customer base. 1031W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1032W

Future Jobs Fund: Coventry Housing Benefit

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people were placed for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of in employment in Coventry through the Future Jobs the proportion of tenants (a) in the West Midlands Fund, in each of the last three years. [44180] and (b) nationally whose monthly rent payments are Chris Grayling: The Future Jobs Fund (FJF) at up to higher than their housing benefit payment. [44183] £6,500 per person is expensive; creates temporary, short term jobs; and the grants do not include any incentives Steve Webb: The two year review of the local housing to move people into permanent employment. allowance (LHA), which was published in February The most recent Young Person’s Guarantee statistics 2011, contained information on the proportion of LHA were published on 19 January 2011. Statistics are available cases experiencing excesses and shortfalls. It showed on the Future Jobs Fund which covers the period from that in the West Midlands 53% of LHA cases had October 2009 to the end of October 2010. contractual rents higher than their applicable LHA The information requested is in the table. rates. Across Great Britain, 49% of customers had contractual rents higher than their applicable LHA The number of people in the Coventry South, Coventry North East and Coventry rates. North West constituencies that have started FJF funded employment since October 2009 Levels of income higher than the claimant’s applicable Starts amount or deductions for non-dependants would make

October 2009 — the HB award lower than the LHA rate and increase the November 2009 — proportions with shortfalls beyond what is shown here. December 2009 — Source: January 2010 40 Analysis of February 2010 single housing benefit extract data. February 2010 60 The two year review is available at: March 2010 80 http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/lha-review-feb-2011.pdf April 2010 30 May 2010 20 June 2010 20 Housing Benefit: Coventry July 2010 40 August 2010 40 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State September 2010 40 for Work and Pensions what proportion of housing October 2010 40 benefit claimants in Coventry were (a) pensioners, (b) Total 410 in work and (c) out of work in each of the last three Notes: 1. Data Source—DWP LMS opportunities evaluation database November years. [44184] 2010. 2. Due to Data Protection protocols, values less than 10 are suppressed and marked with a dash to avoid unnecessary disclosure. Additionally, any figures Steve Webb: As requested, the following table presents above 10 are rounded to the nearest 10. Due to rounding, totals may not be the the proportion of housing benefit recipients by employment sum of the individual cells. Months are calendar months. status and those aged 65 and over—Coventry local Source: Department for Work and Pensions, Jobseekers and Work Programme Division authority. HB recipients in Coventry LA Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State All Proportion Proportion not Proportion in for Work and Pensions into what industries in recipients over 65 in employment employment Coventry those in Coventry who had previously been supported through the Future Jobs Fund have been November 24,790 23.0 88.8 11.2 2008 placed in during 2010-11. [44181] October 27,520 20.9 87.4 12.6 2009 Chris Grayling: We do not keep records of where November 28,870 20.0 83.9 16.1 people have been employed through the future jobs 2010 fund. This information is only held by the bodies who Notes: receive grants from the fund. Grants were awarded to 1. The data refers to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 2. Recipients are as at second Thursday of the month. the following bodies to deliver future jobs fund opportunities 3. SHBE is a monthly electronic scan of claimant level data direct from local in Coventry. authority computer systems. It replaces quarterly aggregate clerical returns. The 3SC data is available monthly from November 2008 and November 2010 is the most recent available, Barnardo’s 4. The data for November 2009 does not contain all of the variables required to Community Service Volunteers answer this question, October 2009 has been used in this instance. 5. The figures have been rounded to the nearest ten, proportions to one decimal Community Transport place. Coventry City Council 6. Age groups are based on the age on the count date (second Thursday in the month), of either: Football League Trust (a) the recipient if they are single, or Groundwork UK and National Housing Association (b) the elder of the recipient or partner if claiming as a couple 7. The data for “in employment” refers to people receiving housing benefit not National Skills Academy in receipt of a passported benefit and are recorded as being in employment if The Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts their local authority has recorded employment income from either the main claimant, or partner of claimant (if applicable), in calculating the housing The Salvation Army benefit award. People receiving passported benefits who are working part-time v-Russell Commission Implementation Body cannot be identified and therefore not included in this analysis. Source: Warwickshire County Council Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE). 1033W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1034W

Jobcentre Plus: Temporary Employment October October October October 2006 to 2007 to 2008 to 2009 to September September September September Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and 2007 2008 2009 2010 Pensions (1) how many Jobcentre Plus employees on Glasgow 2 0 0 0 successive fixed-term contracts of between three and Scotland 2 0 0 1 four years in duration in (a) Glasgow, (b) Scotland Jobcentre 34 1 4 18 and (c) the UK were released in each of the last four Plus— years; and how many employees on successive fixed- National term contracts of between three and four years he In response to the second part of Question 1, as at September expects to be released in each of the next four years; 10, we had around 9,500 people employed on Fixed Term [43300] Appointments (FTAs). Most people have contracts of up to two years and will be expected to leave during the course of 2011/12. (2) how many Jobcentre Plus employees engaged on We are considering extending the contracts of some of these fixed-term contracts had their contracts made people where required. permanent under the Fixed-term Employees The data being reported is drawn from internal Departmental (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) systems used to record and monitor staffing details. Regulations 2002 in (a) Glasgow, (b) Scotland and In response to Question 2, local clerical records held in Glasgow (c) the UK in each of the last four years; [43301] indicate that no people were made permanent under the Fixed Term Employees (Prevention of less favourable treatment) regulations. (3) how many Jobcentre Plus staff in (a) Glasgow, It is not possible to consolidate clerical records for all areas of (b) Scotland and (c) the UK in each of the last four Scotland or for Jobcentre Plus nationally without disproportionate years were employed on fixed-term contracts; and what cost. the average duration of such contracts was in each such In response to Question 3, the following table shows the year; [43302] number of staff employed on FTA contracts in each of the last four years. This is taken from our internal systems and the (4) how many Jobcentre Plus staff he expects to be numbers based on the latest information we hold on FTAs. The engaged on fixed-term contracts in (a) Glasgow, (b) numbers shown are the people who worked as FTAs during each Scotland and (c) the UK in each of the next four of the periods in question. Some people will have worked in more years; and what the average duration of such contracts than one period and will be counted in both. will be in each such year. [43303] Number of FTAs October October October October Chris Grayling: The administration of Jobcentre Plus 2006 to 2007 to 2008 to 2009 to September September September September is a matter for the chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, 2007 2008 2009 2010 Darra Singh. I have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information requested. Glasgow 4 42 295 290 Scotland 63 312 1,493 1,600 Letter from Darra Singh: Jobcentre 657 1,721 12,235 14,979 Plus— The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your questions National asking: The following table shows the average duration of FTA contracts 1. How many Jobcentre Plus employees on successive fixed over the last four years. This represents the average of the length term contracts of between three and four years in duration in a) of contract between the start and end dates of employment for Glasgow; b) Scotland; and c) the UK were released in each of the individuals leaving Jobcentre Plus within each of the years in last four years; and how many employees on successive fixed term question. The figures have been rounded to one decimal place: contracts of between three and four years he expects to be released in each of the next four years. Average duration (years) 2. How many Jobcentre Plus employees engaged on fixed-term October October October October contracts had their contracts made permanent under the Fixed-term 2006 to 2007 to 2008 to 2009 to Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations September September September September 2002 in (a) Glasgow, (b) Scotland and (c) the UK in each of the 2007 2008 2009 2010 last four years. Glasgow 3 0.9 0.5 1.3 3. How many Jobcentre Plus staff in (a) Glasgow (b) Scotland Scotland 1.3 0.8 0.3 1.4 and (c) the UK in each of the last four years were employed on Jobcentre 1.5 0.7 0.7 1.4 fixed-term contracts; and what the average duration of such Plus— contracts was in each such year. National 4. How many Jobcentre Plus staff he expects to be engaged on In response to Question 4, Jobcentre Plus recruited extra fixed-term contracts in (a) Glasgow, (b) Scotland and (c) the UK people on fixed term contracts to address the impact of the in each of the next four years; and what the average duration of economic downturn. It was anticipated that increased workloads such contracts will be in each such year. would be temporary and it was always planned to reduce numbers as the growth in unemployment slowed. Jobcentre Plus continues These are issues that fall within the responsibilities delegated to keep its workloads and staffing levels under close scrutiny. to me as Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. That includes the need to extend FTAs. At this point, Jobcentre Plus does not plan to recruit further FTAs and will release the In response to Question 1, the information in the following majority of existing FTAs during 2011/12. This will be kept under table concerning employees released is set out on a staff in post review. basis, i.e. employees are counted as a single unit irrespective of the hours they work. The table shows employees released in the last Older People: Employment four years with contracts of between three and four years duration. It covers the latest period for which data is available. When we Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work report against Glasgow, it is on the basis of the Jobcentre Plus and Pensions if he will estimate the number of workers operational district. aged 65 years (a) in Glasgow South West constituency 1035W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1036W and (b) nationally who are likely to remain in the Steve Webb: Prior to April 2010, state pension was workforce for an additional year in 2011 following the paid in advance and only for full benefit weeks (seven end of the default retirement age. [41476] days), from the first Monday on or after the date on which the person reached state pension age. In April Mr Davey: I have been asked to reply. 2010, for people moving from a working age benefit to a The impact assessment estimates that around 6,000 pension age benefit, state pension became payable for additional workers are likely to remain in the workforce less than a week to cover any gap caused by benefit pay across the UK in the first year. We do not have data days being different, to ensure continuity of payment. from which to produce robust statistics on the proportion In all other circumstances (for instance, for those in likely to remain in the workforce at the sub-regional work or not in receipt of benefit) state pension continues level. The full impact assessment was published on to be paid only for full benefit weeks, and is now paid in 13 January 2011 and is available at: arrears with the pay day determined by the person’s http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-matters/ national insurance number. docs/p/11-634-phasing-out-default-retirement-age-impact- There are no plans to change this approach. assessment.pdf Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the average reduction in income for (a) men and (b) Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of women currently aged (i) 50, (ii) 51, (iii) 52, (iv) 53, (v) State for Work and Pensions how many migrants from 54, (vi) 55, (vii) 56 and (viii) 57 who would receive (1) other EU member states claimed social security guarantee credit, (2) housing benefit and (3) council tax benefits in the UK in the latest period for which figures benefit on retirement as a result of the proposed are available; what estimate he has made of the likely change in the timetable for increasing the state pension change in this number in each of the next five years; age. [44980] and if he will make a statement. [44989] Steve Webb: The information is not available. Chris Grayling: People from other EU member states who have worked in the UK and paid national insurance The outcome will vary greatly among individuals contributions may claim contributory benefits such as depending on factors such as: other sources of income, contribution-based jobseeker’s allowance if they satisfy household income and savings eligibility for working the contributions and other conditions for the benefit. age benefits. EU migrants cannot normally claim income-related Universal Credit benefits1 unless they satisfy the habitual residence test. The specific information sought about the number Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work claiming benefits is not available. The UK’s benefit and Pensions how many and what proportion of payment systems do not record the nationality of people households who will have lower entitlements under receiving benefits and no forecasts have been made. universal credit fall into each £10,000 income band. 1 Income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance, income-related [45167] employment and support allowance, pension credit, housing benefit and council tax benefit. Chris Grayling: Transitional protection will ensure Social Security Benefits: Internet that there are no cash losers from universal credit, at the point of transition. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the proportion of Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work benefit enquiries and applications made by those and Pensions when he plans to publish an impact without home access to the internet in the latest period assessment on the operation of (a) universal credit and for which figures are available; and if he will make a (b) the localised system of council tax benefit. [45169] statement. [43128] Steve Webb: We are currently considering when will Chris Grayling: This information does not exist in the be most appropriate to conduct an impact assessment format that has been requested. on the operation of universal credit. Online customer feedback collected by the Department The Department for Communities and Local to evaluate the use of the job seekers allowance (JSA) Government are leading the work on the localisation of internet service asked customers where they made their council tax support in relation to England. They will online application. This indicates that 87% of these publish a draft impact assessment alongside a consultation customers accessed the internet at home when making in due course. This will be updated when legislation on their online JSA application. the new scheme is introduced. State Retirement Pensions Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the cost to Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of the public purse of providing transitional protection State for Work and Pensions if he will take steps to for benefit recipients in households in each £10,000 ensure that the basic state pension is claimable by each income band. [45170] recipient with effect from the birthday at which they reach the state pension age; and if he will make a Chris Grayling: This information is not available and statement. [44905] to provide it would incur a disproportionate cost. 1037W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1038W

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Mr Bellingham: Engagement by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the right hon. Afghanistan: Peace Negotiations Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), is only one way in which the Foreign and Commonwealth Office David Miliband: To ask the Secretary of State for (FCO) engages on climate change. As the Secretary of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the State said at the Council on Foreign Relations in New composition is of the Afghan High Peace Council. York in September 2010, [44512] “the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, under my leadership, is a vocal advocate for climate diplomacy. British Alistair Burt: The High Peace Council comprises Ambassadors carry the argument for a global low carbon transition seventy members drawn from all of Afghanistan’s major in their breast pocket or their handbag. Climate change is part of ethnic groups, and includes representatives of the their daily vocabulary, alongside the traditional themes of foreign policy.” government and opposition, women, civil society and former insurgents. It is chaired by former President I myself regularly raise these issues with foreign partners. Burhanuddin Rabbani. The Secretary of State has discussed climate change issues with his German counterpart and the Chinese Burma: Asylum Vice Premier, Li Keqiang (who visited the UK from 9-12 January 2011). He has not done so with his Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for counterparts from the other countries listed, not all of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has whom he has met. made representations to the government of Thailand Most recently, the Secretary of State has focused on on reports of forced deportation of Rohingya refugees. reinforcing European climate diplomacy, writing on [44926] 24 February 2011, with his German counterpart to the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Mr Jeremy Browne: We are deeply concerned over Policy suggesting that EU Foreign Ministers meet to allegations that at the beginning of 2011 Thailand agree how the EU can play a more effective role on forcibly deported Rohingya refugees. Our ambassador climate change. to Thailand reiterated our concern over their treatment with the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 9 February Departmental Food 2011. During this discussion he stressed the importance of ensuring that Thailand treats all refugees according Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to international standards and pressed for unhindered and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects his access for the office of the UN High Commissioner for Department to meet the Government’s commitment to Refugees. We deplore the targeted persecution of ethnic source food that meets British or equivalent standards groups in Burma and will continue to underline regularly of production. [43319] to international partners that the cause of refugee flows out of Burma is the regime’s appalling human rights Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office record. (FCO) in the UK currently meets the Government’s commitment, as detailed in the coalition agreement, to Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for “ensure that food procured by government departments, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has and eventually the whole public sector, meets British made representations to the government of Thailand standards of production wherever this can be achieved on provision to the Office of the United Nations High without increasing overall cost.” Commissioner for Refugees of unhindered access to We will formally report progress against this requirement Rohingya asylum seekers detained in Thailand. [44963] in June 2011. Mr Jeremy Browne: We are deeply concerned by the A response for the FCO’s global network could be recent influx to Thailand of Rohingya refugees who provided only at disproportionate cost. have fled Burma to escape human rights abuses. Our embassy in Thailand is in regular contact with the office Departmental Manpower of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and has made representations to the Thai Government Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for to press for full access by the UNHCR to the Rohingya. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many staff in Most recently on 9 February 2011, our ambassador to his Department were in the civil service redeployment Thailand raised the issue with the Deputy Permanent pool on the latest date for which figures are available; Secretary at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Our and how many of these had been in the redeployment embassy is also working with EU partners to continue pool for more than six months at that date. [44343] to press the Thai authorities on this matter. Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Climate Change Convention (FCO) does not have staff in a civil service redeployment pool. The FCO’s corporate pool is for staff who, because Emma Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for of the pattern of careers in the FCO, with a mixture of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last home and overseas postings, and fixed posting cycles, discussed the United Nations Framework Convention have unavoidable gaps between substantive jobs. In the on Climate Change with his (a) German, (b) US, (c) vast majority of cases we are able to deploy these Indian, (d) Chinese, (e) Malawian, (f) Gambian, (g) officers into temporary roles to meet short-term priority Bolivian and (h) Malaysian counterparts. [44112] needs and to deal with unexpected crises. For example, 1039W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1040W we have deployed more than 50 staff from the corporate (b) his Lebanese counterpart and (c) his Syrian pool to help provide additional cover for the Libya counterpart on Hezbollah’s military capabilities in crisis. southern Lebanon. [43196] The number in the corporate pool change on a daily basis. On 28 February 2011 there were 227 people in the Alistair Burt: Both the Secretary of State for Foreign corporate pool of which 78 had been in it for more than and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend, and six months. All but 12 members of the pool are currently the Prime Minister have raised the issue of Hizballah fully deployed. weapons recently; my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary with President Assad and Foreign Minister Departmental Official Residences Muallem during his visit to Damascus in January 2011 and the Prime Minister in discussions with Prime Minister Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Hariri in November 2010. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he Our embassies in Tel Aviv, Beirut and Damascus also has made of the cost to the public purse of residences raise the issue of Hizballah’s weapons with the Israeli, used by Ministers in his Department in the latest Lebanese and Syrian Governments on a regular basis. period for which figures are available. [43217] Hosni Mubarak Alistair Burt: Chevening House in Sevenoaks is owned and administered by a private trust. Some residual costs are met by the public purse. These total £3,694.62 per Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for annum. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has The flat that constitutes the Secretary of State for taken to freeze the assets of former President Mubarak Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs official residence held in the UK. [43915] at 1 Carlton Gardens is estimated to cost a total of £65,448 for the financial year 2010-11, a saving of Alistair Burt [holding answer 3 March 2011]: The £1,406 on the previous financial year. Egyptian authorities have provided us, and other countries, with a list of names in relation to freezing the assets of Since my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary’s several members of the former regime. However, it is occupation of 1 Carlton Gardens on 28 June 2010, our policy not to disclose the names of such people to council tax and utility costs have been met by him avoid assets being moved. If evidence of illegality or personally. misuse of state assets is shown to exist and provided to Electoral Reform Services us, we will take firm and prompt action. The EU is also considering the options available to respond to the Egyptian authorities. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the monetary value was of contracts his Department Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State placed with Electoral Reform Services in each year for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent since 2005. [44218] steps (a) the Government and (b) the Serious Organised Crime Agency have taken in respect of the Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office assets of Hosni Mubarak and his associates. [44404] (FCO) has no record of contracts placed with Electoral Reform Services (ERS) in each year since 2005. The Mr Hague [holding answer 4 March 2011]: The Egyptian FCO does have contracts with Electoral Reform authorities have provided us, and other countries, with International Services, established by ERS in 1992. a list of names in relation to freezing the assets of Information on the value of these contracts is not held several members of the former regime. However, it is centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate our policy not to disclose the names of such people to cost. avoid assets being moved. If evidence of illegality or misuse of state assets is shown to exist and provided to Hague Convention on Civil Aspects of International us, we will take firm and prompt action. The EU is also Child Abduction considering the options available to respond to the Egyptian authorities. Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Financial institutions are required under the money Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has laundering regulations to do enhanced due diligence to encourage other countries to sign the Hague with individuals who hold prominent public functions Convention on Child Abduction. [44757] and to report suspicious activity to the Serious Organised Crime Agency. These obligations have been stressed Mr Jeremy Browne: The Government actively lobby over the course of recent events by both Her Majesty’s countries where we have a significant number of abduction Treasury and the Financial Services Authority with the cases, or where we have encountered specific problems, banks and others. to sign the 1980 Hague convention on the civil aspects of international child abduction. Iraq: Christianity Hezbollah Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent has received on the treatment of Christians in Iraq in discussions he has had with (a) his Israeli counterpart, the last 12 months. [43184] 1041W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1042W

Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Europe, my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury has received and continues to receive regular representations (Mr Lidington), continue to be in regular contact with from parliamentarians and members of the public about EU counterparts on the situation in Libya. In particular, the situation for Christians in Iraq. The number of the Secretary of State had detailed discussions with the representations rose sharply after the tragic attacks against new French Foreign Minister in Paris on 3 March 2011. Christian groups in October and November 2010. We have succeeded in pushing the EU to adopt a We continue to urge the Iraqi Government to protect tough package of sanctions against Libya, including an and ensure the security of all Iraqis, including Christians. asset freeze, visa ban, arms embargo and embargo on Other EU countries, including Italy and France have equipment used for internal repression. also co-ordinated their responses with the UK. The next high-level meeting will be an emergency European Council meeting convened for 11 March Iraq: Minority Groups 2011 to discuss developments in Libya, as well as other countries in north Africa and the middle east. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for representations he has made to the government of Iraq Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whom the on the human rights of Iraqi Turkmen; and if he will Government recognises as the de jure government of make a statement. [43072] Libya. [44957] Alistair Burt: We continue to encourage the Iraqi Government to promote and protect the rights and Alistair Burt: We have called for the end of Colonel freedoms of all Iraqi citizens, including the Turkmen Gaddafi’s regime and to that end we are taking every community. In recent months we have urged the Iraqi step possible to isolate the Gaddafi regime, deprive it of Government to ensure the security of all its communities money, shrink its power and ensure that anyone responsible and deal appropriately with those responsible for any for abuses in Libya will be held to account. acts of violence and intimidation due to political, ethnic or religious affiliation. Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials meet Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whom the regularly with representatives from different Iraqi Government recognises as the de jure government of communities, including the Turkmen community. We Libya under the Vienna Convention. [44958] will continue to listen to their concerns and do what we can to help improve the human rights situation in Iraq. Alistair Burt: The Vienna convention on diplomatic relations does not contain any provisions on recognition Lebanon: Capital Punishment of governments.

Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Middle East: Armed Conflict and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has received on persons sentenced to death in Lebanon for Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Secretary of State for intelligence gathering for Israel; and if he will make a Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent statement. [43818] reports he has received on the blockade in Gaza. [44466] Alistair Burt: We are currently aware of seven individuals who have been sentenced to death for Israeli related spying activities, the most recent being on 17 February Alistair Burt: Although we no longer assess that there 2011. is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza we have long been clear that the status quo is a tragedy, unsustainable and We oppose the death penalty in all circumstances as a counterproductive. matter of principle because we believe it undermines human dignity; there is no conclusive evidence of its The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth deterrent value; and any miscarriage of justice leading Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond to its imposition is irreversible and irreparable. (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised the situation in Gaza with Prime Minister Netanyahu when he visited Israel in There is no reliable evidence to support the argument November 2010. The Minister of State for the Middle that the death penalty is a deterrent to serious crime; East and North Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for numerous academic studies have failed to establish that North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), discussed Gaza execution deters more than the prospect of a long at length with the Israeli Coordinator for Government sentence. Activity in the Territories (COGAT), General Dangot, Libya: Politics and Government when he visited the region on 16-19 January 2011. Officials at our embassy in Tel Aviv raise Gaza access with the Government of Israel on a regular basis. Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent There has been an increase in the quantity and variety discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on the of goods entering Gaza. But political situation in Libya. [44906] we continue to call on Israel to ensure the unconditional opening of crossing for the flow of humanitarian Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and aid, commercial goods and persons. We also look to Israel to Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member speed up the approvals process for dual-use items and for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) and the Minister for accelerate key imports for UN led reconstruction. 1043W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1044W

We welcome steps, such as Israel’s approval of the Muammar al-Gaddafi 20 projects in Gaza including the seven UN Relief and Works Agency schools they announced on 4 February 2011. We continue to press for further such steps. Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when the decision was taken to publicise reports that Colonel Middle East: EU External Relations Gaddafi had travelled to Venezuela. [43914]

David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Hague [holding answer 3 March 2011]: I responded Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the to a question from the media when leaving the answers of 10 February 2011, Official Report, columns European Union Foreign Affairs Council on 21 February 434-5W, on the Middle East: peace negotiations, when 2011. In this, I noted that I had no information that the European Commission next plans to review its Colonel Gaddafi had travelled to Venezuela, but had association agreements with (a) Lebanon, (b) Tunisia, seen some information that suggested he may have (c) Morocco and (d) Algeria. [43395] travelled there. Alistair Burt: The European External Action Service and European Commission publish annual European Palestinians: Elections Neighbourhood Policy reports covering all partner countries, including Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia and Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Algeria. While we do not have a fixed date for publication Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent steps in 2011, last year’s reports were published in May 2010. he has taken to support the holding of elections in the The latest assessments by country are at: Palestinian territories; and if he will make a statement. http://eeas.europa.eu/countries/index_en.htm [44563] Until annual European Neighbourhood Policy report is published we are unable to make an assessment on the Alistair Burt: I refer the hon. Member to the progress made. answer given by my noble Friend, the Minister of State, the right hon. Lord Howell of Guildford, of Middle East: Peace Negotiations 9 February 2011, Official Report, House of Lords, column WA70. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make Palestinians: Security Forces representations to the Palestinian Authority to encourage it to recognise the religious and historical David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for significance of the Western Wall to Jewish people; and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the if he will make a statement. [42063] answer of 17 February 2011, Official Report, column 1001W, on Palestinians: security forces, what Alistair Burt: We strongly support the right to freedom proportion of the Middle East and North Africa of religion or belief as set out in the Universal Declaration Conflict Pool was used to assist the US Security of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Co-ordinator for Israel and the Palestinian territories Civil and Political Rights as well as the full implementation in the training of Palestinian security forces in (a) of the 1981 UN Declaration on the Elimination of all 2008, (b) 2009 and (c) 2010. [44616] Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief. Alistair Burt: The proportion of Middle East and Jerusalem holds particular significance for many people North Africa Conflict Pool (MENA CP) funding worldwide especially the three Abrahamic faiths of provided to assist the US Security Co-ordinator through Judaism, Islam and Christianity. It is crucial that the the deployment of the British support team in Ramallah parties come to an agreement whereby Jerusalem can be for each of the years referred to is: a shared capital of both an Israeli and a Palestinian state. Financial year Percentage We make our views on these issues clear to both the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority. 2008-09 33 We continue to call for restraint and the avoidance of 2009-10 16 provocative actions from both sides in and around 2010-11 18 Jerusalem. The proportion of the funding out of the MENA CP allocation for Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign specifically was: and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with governments in the Middle East on the Financial year Percentage boycott by Hamas of Israeli goods in Gaza. [43097] 2008-09 57 Alistair Burt: Given wider changes across the region, 2009-10 68 our recent contacts with Governments in the Middle 2010-11 60 East have focused on the challenges and opportunities these changes present. We have not discussed the issue Final funding for 2010-11 is not confirmed and is cited. based on the provisional allocation. 1045W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1046W

Somalia: Piracy One of the interim recommendations for the Sri Lankan Government’s ‘Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Commission’ is to provide interpreters to assist with and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has overcoming language barriers. We welcome this made of the conclusions of the Chair of the Contact recommendation and the Sri Lankan Government’s Group on Piracy off the coast of Somalia; and what efforts to improve access to government services for all steps he plans to take in response to those conclusions. communities. [45126] Sri Lanka: Politics and Government Mr Bellingham: We support fully the conclusions of the Contact Group on Piracy off the Coast of Somalia Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for (CGPCS) at its November 2010 plenary meeting. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he The UK supports the strong leadership role of the plans to take to support the national reconciliation CGPCS in co-ordinating the international response to process in Sri Lanka. [45110] piracy, and is leading the response to current operational and regional maritime capability issues through its Alistair Burt: We believe that the best way to achieve chairmanship of CGPCS Working Group 1. lasting and equitable peace in Sri Lanka is through an inclusive political solution that addresses the underlying Special Tribunal for Lebanon causes of the conflict and takes into account the legitimate grievances and aspirations of all Sri Lanka’s communities. David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for During my visit to Sri Lanka last month I met with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps the senior government officials and raised this issue. We Government is taking to ensure that the Special hope the Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission Tribunal for Lebanon is able to continue its work in can play a role in the post-conflict reconciliation process. safety. [43198] Ultimately it is the responsibility of the Sri Lankan Government, and their people, to shape a sustainable Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and national reconciliation process. Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend, and I have both underlined our support for the Special Tribunal Tibet for Lebanon. We have called for the Tribunal to be allowed to carry out its work without hindrance or Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of impediment and for all sides to co-operate constructively State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his and not interfere with due process. Most recently my policy is on the constitutional status of Tibet. [42821] right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary stated that: “The UK looks for a government that is formed in accordance Mr Jeremy Browne: The Government recognise Tibet with Lebanon’s constitution; that commands the broadest possible as part of the People’s Republic of China. support of the people of Lebanon; that upholds its international obligations including the Special Tribunal and an end to impunity for assassinations”. Voluntary Work and Charitable Donations As the chair, and a member, of the Management Committee of the Special Tribunal, the UK continues Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for to provide active support on all financial and administrative Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his issues, including supporting tribunal efforts to ensure Department has a policy to encourage its employees to the safety of its staff. (a) volunteer and (b) donate via payroll giving. [43239] Sri Lanka: Languages Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has a strong tradition of voluntary work, ranging Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign from individuals getting involved with their local and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has communities to whole departments undertaking voluntary received on attempts by the government of Sri Lanka activities in the UK and throughout our overseas network. to ensure language rights of citizens in (a) Tamil- The amount of time given varies according to the speaking and (b) other areas of that country. [44236] nature of the activity, but all employees are offered up to five days special paid leave a year to volunteer. Alistair Burt: Following my recent visit to Sri Lanka, Examples of some of the voluntary activity undertaken I am aware of concerns regarding language barriers, by individual members of staff granted special paid including access by Tamil-speaking Sri Lankans to leave are: government services. The Sri Lankan Government have Youth Educator, Envision Project; recognised this issue and are seeking to ensure more state officials are able to speak Tamil. During 2010 the Participation in reintegration project for young ex-convicts; police force launched recruitment drives to attract 1,500 Facilitation of Royal Commonwealth Society Commonwealth Tamil civilians into the police force. The UK, with the Youth Summits; Sri Lankan Government’s consent, has provided Tamil Event promotion for Croydon Community Against Trafficking. language training to over 300 police personnel. Through Our special unpaid leave policy (SUPL) allows staff, the British Council we have also conducted training of among other things, to work outside the FCO, for trainers and provided Tamil language learning materials example with a non-governmental organisation for a for the security forces. period of up to five years. 1047W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1048W

The FCO has a policy in place where staff can JUSTICE contribute to their chosen charity via a Give as You Departmental Billing Earn/Payroll Giving scheme. Each year the FCO provides several reminders to staff how effective contributions via their payroll in either regular or Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for single donations can be, especially for higher rate Justice what proportion of invoices from suppliers his taxpayers. There are currently over 300 employees in Department paid within 10 days of receipt in January the FCO who have signed up to payroll giving, with and February 2011. [45071] around 21 charities represented, including the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Royal Mr Djanogly: The percentage of payments made Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, Cancer within 10 days to all suppliers for the month of January Research, Help for Heroes and the UN Children’s and February 2011 are shown in the following table. Fund. In financial year 2009-10 FCO staff donated over £100,000. Percentage January 2011 93 Yemen February 2011 95 Departmental Leaseback Arrangements Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what official visits Ministers from his Department have made to Yemen Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for since 1997; and for what purpose. [43982] Justice what assets his Department has sold and leased back over the last 12 months; what the sale price was of each asset so sold; and what estimate he has made of Alistair Burt: Since 1997 the following Foreign and the cost to the public purse of leasing back each such Commonwealth Office (FCO) Ministers have visited asset over the period of the lease. [45070] Yemen to further bilateral relations and discuss mutual areas of concern: Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice has not sold and Dr Kim Howells, FCO Minister of State: January 2006 leased back any assets in the last 12 months. Dr Kim Howells, FCO Minister of State: May 2008 Electoral Reform Services Ltd Ivan Lewis, FCO Minister of State: February 2010. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Justice what the monetary value was of contracts his (Yorks) (Mr Hague) visited in February 2011. Department placed with Electoral Reform Services Ltd I visited Yemen in June 2010. in each year since 2005. [44222] Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) was Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign created in May 2007 by combining the former Department and Commonwealth Affairs what the outcome was of for Constitutional Affairs and part of the Home Office. his recent visit to Yemen; what matters were discussed All data given are from that date onwards as it would during his meeting with President Ali Abdullah Saleh; incur disproportionate costs to give data from the DCA and if he will make a statement. [44260] and Home Office. The MoJ has no contracts with the Electoral Reform Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Service Ltd. Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), met President Saleh The Electoral Reform Services Ltd has carried out in Yemen on 9 February and delivered clear messages to some consultancy work for the MoJ. The invoice dates the Government there. and costs are as follows:

Firstly, we want the Government of Yemen to £ make progress on national dialogue with the opposition parties, including agreement on implementing 23 December 2010 1,349.08 much needed political and economic reform and action 21 December 2009 2,517.54 to address the legitimate grievances of the Yemeni 8 December 2008 751.62 people. European Court of Human Rights Secondly, we have asked for a prioritised and budgeted Development Plan for Poverty Reduction from the Yemeni Government so that we, and other Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice donors, can establish an appropriate financing mechanism what plans he has to seek reform of the jurisdiction of for Yemen and be confident that funds are properly the European Court of Human Rights. [44151] used. Mr Djanogly: The United Kingdom was one of the Finally, the Secretary of State called for intensified 11 original signatories to the European Convention on Yemeni efforts to disrupt the al-Qaeda threat on their Human Rights on 4 November 1950. The United Kingdom territory and further action to resolve internal grievances is bound by the European Convention and has recognised and conflicts. the jurisdiction and agreed to abide by the judgments of We will discuss progress on these issues at the next the European Court of Human Rights since 14 January Friends of Yemen meeting in March. 1966. 1049W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1050W

The Government are committed to supporting and Magistrates Courts: Skipton building on the process of court reform already under way in Strasbourg. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice As part of the reform process, the Government would what recent discussions he has had with representatives wish to see a strengthening of the principle of subsidiarity. of HM Court Service on the consultation on the future That is, that the Convention should principally be of administrative provision at Skipton magistrates implemented at a national level. The Government will court. [44691] work with other member states of the Council of Europe and the Court, including through our Chairmanship of Mr Djanogly: The deployment of court staff and the Council of Europe (November 2011-May 2012), to resources at a local level is principally a matter for find ways to give further practical effect to this principle HMCS management rather than Ministers. I am aware in the Convention system. however that HMCS is currently consulting on proposals regarding administrative provision at the Skipton Human Rights: EU Action courthouse and believe that these proposals, if they proceed, would increase its utilisation and efficiency. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what discussions he has had with his EU counterparts Pleural Plaques Extra-statutory Scheme on the timetable for the proposed accession of the European Union to the European Convention on Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Human Rights. [44467] Justice how many applications his Department has received under the pleural plaques extra-statutory Mr Djanogly: No such discussions have taken place scheme to date. [44312] to date with EU ministerial counterparts. Discussions are continuing in official working groups to agree the Mr Djanogly: The extra-statutory scheme opened for details for accession. The Government will need to be applications on 2 August 2010 and, as of 25 February, a sure that any accession agreement neither enlarges the total of 6,991 applications have been registered. competences of the Union nor negatively affects the position of the United Kingdom and other member Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for states in relation to the ECHR. The Government will Justice what the average length of time taken is for an continue to participate fully in discussions about accession application to be processed under the pleural plaques with these principles in mind. extra-statutory scheme. [44313]

Legal Aid Scheme: Payments Mr Djanogly: The average time taken to process an application based on completed cases is currently Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 42 working days. This includes the time that applicants for Justice what payments were made to the 20 (a) are given to provide supporting information as well as firms and (b) barristers who received the highest total the time that they are given to consider the offer before level of payments from the (i) criminal defence service advising their acceptance. Separate figures for these scheme and (ii) the community legal service scheme in stages are not available. the latest period for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement. [44882] Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice whether there has been any liaison between Mr Djanogly: It is not possible to provide the information those responsible for administering the pleural plaques in the time available, I will write to the hon. Member extra-statutory scheme and HM Revenue and Customs and place a copy in the House of Commons Library. National Insurance Contributions Office Special Section A on the provision of employment history Legal Aid: Fees and Charges schedules for submission by applicants to the scheme. [44391] Bob Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what steps he plans to take to ensure that legal aid Mr Djanogly: For applications under the pleural plaques recipients pay their legal fees once they are financially scheme to be considered, it is important that applicants able to do so. [44254] provide verifiable independent evidence of their employment history. In cases where applicants do not have any other Mr Djanogly: The statutory charge has been an essential proof of their employment history provision of an HM feature since the legal aid scheme was originally established Revenue and Customs employment schedule is necessary. in 1949. Where a legally aided client is wholly or partly The onus is on the applicant or their representative to successful in recovering or preserving goods or property, obtain and provide this. My officials have spoken to the charge converts legal aid from a grant into a loan. HM Revenue and Customs and they are aware of the position. The Ministry of Justice recently conducted a consultation on proposals for the reform of legal aid in England and Wales, which closed on 14 February 2011. We are now Prisoners carefully considering the responses that we have received, and will publish our response in due course. The Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice consultation proposals can be viewed online at: what assessment he has made of the position of the http://www.justice.gov.uk/consultations/legal-aid-reform- UK in international comparator tables on levels of 151110.htm imprisonment. [44605] 1051W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1052W

Mr Blunt: A table showing the prison population of Additionally, the data can be seen in the following England and Wales compared with EU and other selected table. These figures have been drawn from administrative countries was published on 22 July 2010 in Offender IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Management Caseload Statistics (shown in tables 7.15). system, are subject to possible errors with data entry This can be found in the House Library and at the and processing. following link: http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ prisonandprobation.htm

Table 7.15 Prison population1 international comparisons with other EU countries and selected other countries 2003-09 Rate20 per Percentage 100,000 change population Country 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2008-09 in 2009

England and Wales2 72,992 75,057 76,896 79,085 80,692 83,406 84,116 1 153 Northern Ireland3 1,160 1,274 1,301 1,433 1,468 1,507 1,468 -3 82 Scotland3 6,524 6,805 6,792 7,111 7,291 7,741 7,928 2 153 Austria 7,816 9,000 8,767 8,780 8,887 7,899 8,423 7 101 Belgium4 9,308 9,245 9,375 9,635 10,008 9,858 10,159 3 94 Bulgaria5 9,422 10,066 10,871 11,436 11,058 10,271 9,408 -8 124 Cyprus6 355 546 536 599 673 671 700 4 88 Czech Republic7 17,277 18,343 18,937 18,578 18,901 20,502 21,734 6 207 Denmark 3,577 3,762 4,132 3,759 3,406 3,451 3,881 12 70 Estonia5 4,352 4,576 4,565 4,411 4,327 3,467 3,656 5 273 Finland7 3,463 3,535 3,883 3,477 3,370 3,457 3,231 -7 60 France8 57,440 56,271 56,595 55,754 60,677 62,843 61,787 -2 96 Germany9 81,176 81,166 80,410 78,581 75,719 75,056 73,592 -2 90 Greece10 8,555 8,760 9,589 10,113 11,120 11,798 11,080 -6 98 Hungary7 16,507 16,543 15,720 14,821 14,353 14,736 15,373 4 153 Ireland11 2,986 3,083 3,022 3,080 3,305 3,523 4,009 14 89 Italy7 56,845 56,068 59,523 39,005 48,693 58,127 64,791 11 107 Latvia5 8,366 8,179 7,646 6,965 6,548 6,548 6,873 5 304 Lithuania5 11,070 8,063 8,125 8,137 8,079 7,866 8,000 2 239 Luxembourg 498 548 693 756 745 674 679 1 136 Malta12 278 277 298 346 387 412 480 17 116 Netherlands 18,242 20,075 21,826 20,463 18,103 16,416 15,676 -5 95 Poland2 80,692 79,344 82,656 87,669 90,199 84,549 85,598 1 225 Portugal7 13,835 13,152 12,889 12,636 11,587 10,830 11,099 2 104 Romania7 42,815 39,031 36,700 34,038 29,390 26,212 26,716 2 124 Slovakia7 8,873 9,422 8,897 8,249 7,986 8,166 9,316 14 172 Slovenia 1,099 1,126 1,132 1,301 1,336 1,317 1,360 3 66 Spain 55,244 59,224 61,269 64,120 66,400 71,778 76,509 7 164 Sweden13 6,755 7,332 7,054 7,175 6,770 6,853 7,286 6 78 European Union 27 607,522 609,873 620,099 601,513 611,478 619,934 634,866 2 127

Croatia5 2,732 2,803 3,022 3,485 3,833 4,290 4,734 10 107 Iceland 112 115 119 119 115 140 175 25 55 Norway 2,914 2,975 3,097 3,164 3,280 3,278 3,285 0 68 Russian Federation5 877,393 847,004 763,115 823,451 871,693 883,170 887,723 1 626 Switzerland14 5,214 5,977 6,137 5,888 5,715 5,780 6,084 5 79 Turkey15 64,051 71,148 54,296 67,795 85,865 99,416 113,493 14 157 Ukraine16 198,386 193,489 179,519 165,716 154,055 145,946 146,394 0 320 Australia17 23,555 24,171 25,353 25,790 27,224 27,615 29,317 6 134 Brazil18 308,304 336,358 361,402 401,236 422,590 451,429 473,626 5 243 Canada19 35,868 34,155 34,365 35,436 37,326 38,348 39,132 2 117 Japan7 73,734 76,413 79,052 81,255 83,518 80,523 78,952 -2 62 Korea (Rep. of)3 58,945 57,184 52,403 46,721 46,313 46,684 49,467 6 102 Mexico7 182,530 193,889 205,821 210,140 212,841 219,754 224,749 2 204 New Zealand3 6,059 6,556 7,100 7,595 7,959 7,763 8,287 7 192 South Africa9 189,748 187,640 187,394 150,302 161,639 165,840 165,230 0 335 1053W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1054W

Table 7.15 Prison population1 international comparisons with other EU countries and selected other countries 2003-09 Rate20 per Percentage 100,000 change population Country 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2008-09 in 2009

U.S.A.17 2,082,728 2,129,802 2,183,152 2,245,189 2,296,133 2,308,561 2,297,400 0 748 1 At 1 September: number of prisoners, including pre-trial detainees/remand prisoners. 2 At 31 August. 3 Annual averages. Countries calculate these on the basis of daily, weekly or monthly figures. 4 At 1 March. 5 At 1 January. 6 At 1 September (2003-08), August (2009). 7 At 31 December. 8 Metropolitan and overseas departments and territories. 9 At 31 March. 10 At 1 September (2003, 05-06, 08-09), December (2004), November (2007). 11 At 1 September (2003-08), 9 October (2009). 12 At 1 September (2003-06), annual average (2007-08), 22 June (2009). 13 At 1 October. 14 At first Wednesday in September. 15 At 1 September (2003-08), 31 August (2009). 16 At 1 September (2003-07, 09), 31 December (2008). 17 At 30 June. 18 At December. 19 Annual averages by financial year (e.g. 2009=1April2008 - 31 March 2009). 20 Based on estimates of national population. Note: Data Sources and Quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems. Care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, but the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system, and so although shown to the last individual, the figures may not be accurate to that level. See Technical appendix of report for fuller information. Sources: Ministries responsible for prisons, national prison administrations, national statistical offices, Council of Europe Annual Penal Statistics (SPACE), World Prison Population List (Roy Walmsley) and World Prison Brief (International Centre for Prison Studies)

Prisoners: Clothing 2. When prisoners have successfully completed initial courses, most will be eligible for an income-assessed OU fee waiver which is funded through the HEFCE3 Access to Learning Fund operating Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice within the OU. how much his Department spent on (a) clothing, (b) 3. Some prisoners receive funding for course fees from charitable footwear and (c) hygienic, cosmetic and related sundry funds provided by Prisoners Education Trust, the Longford Trust products for prisoners in each of the last five years. and other charities. [44288] 4. A few prisoners self-fund. The Government’s review of offender learning, which Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management Service will report shortly, will cover higher education arrangements (NOMS) central accounting system holds expenditure for prisoners. on the provision of clothing and considerable other 1 consumable items for use by prisoners in summary form Source: Prisoners’ Education Trust, February 2011. only. In order to provide details of expenditure on the 2 Based on data held; there may be additional students who provision of clothing, footwear, and hygienic, cosmetic self-fund or access student loans. and related sundry projects for use by prisoners would 3 Higher Education Funding Council for England. require manually examining a large volume of records at individual establishments. This could be done only at disproportionate cost. Prisoners: Mass Media

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Prisoners: Education (1) pursuant to the answer of 21 October 2010, Official Report, columns 979-80W, on prisoners: interviews, Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many prisoners have (a) requested and (b) been how many prisoners are undertaking courses of an granted approval for face-to-face interviews since July undergraduate degree level or higher; and by what 2010; in which prison each such prisoner was located; mechanism the fees for these courses are paid. [44286] and for what offence each such prisoner was serving a sentence; [44248] Mr Blunt: In the 2010-11 financial year to date 1,609 (2) what arrangements are in place to control written prisoners in England and Wales have registered to start communications between prisoners and the media; an Open University (OU)1 course module. In addition, [44249] 2 about 5 are currently studying at undergraduate level (3) what estimate he has made of the cost to the at other higher education institutions, none of whom public purse of the involvement of media liaison are funded from statutory funds. officers in communications between prisoners and the Fees for the courses are paid through three separate media in the latest period for which figures are systems. available; and how many media liaison officers are 1. Course fees for initial OU study for prisoners are paid by the employed for (a) the purpose of communications Prisoners Education Trust using funds from the Department for between prisoners and the media and (b) other Business, Innovation and Skills, operating to a capped budget. purposes; [44295] 1055W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1056W

(4) who was consulted on Prison Service Instruction role is assigned and it is not possible to estimate the cost (PSI) 37/2010 on prisoners’ access to the media prior to incurred. There will normally be one media liaison its publication; whether any of those consultees officer for each prison. represent victims of crime; what assessment he has The unauthorised disclosure of information to any made of the effects of the introduction of PSI 37/2010; third party by staff, if proved, would constitute a breach and what assessment he has made of the effects of of the NOMS staff code of conduct. policy on the number of contacts between prisoners Records indicate that in the last 12 months one and the media; [44296] member of staff was dismissed from the service for the (5) whether all prisons have implemented Prison unauthorised disclosure of prisoner related information Service Instruction 37/2010 on prisoners’ access to the to the press. media; [44297] Prisoners who breach the rules relating to contact (6) what action has been taken against (a) prison with the media will be dealt with under the internal staff, (b) journalists and (c) prisoners who have been disciplinary procedures, and are likely to face additional involved in unsanctioned communications between monitoring of their correspondence in future. There are prisoners and the media in the last 12 months; [44298] no records kept centrally about the number of prisoners (7) what provisions are in place for victims of crime who have been found to have made unauthorised contact to be consulted when prisoners convicted of offences with the press or journalists. that have affected them make requests to have contact Governors can restrict future access to prisoners or with the media; and if he will review Prison Service prisons by journalists who have engaged in authorised Instruction 37/2010 on prisoners’ access to the media contact with prisoners. to provide more rights and information for the victims of crimes perpetrated by prisoners seeking access to A range of internal and external stakeholders were media outlets. [44299] consulted on the instruction on Prisoners’ Access to the Media (PSI 37/2010), in line with NOMS instructions on the approval and implementation of instructions. Mr Blunt: Since 2 July 2010, four prisoners have No consultees specifically represented victims of crime. requested face to face interviews with journalists. The There has been no review of the effects of introducing details of these are set out in the following table: the updated policy. The instruction makes clear that Prison Offence Outcome face to face or telephone contact with journalists will only take place in exceptional circumstances and we do Birmingham Child sex offences Refused not expect a large increase in the number of contacts Bronzefield Murder Refused between prisoners and the media. Frankland Murder Still under consideration Prison Service Instruction 37/2010 Prisoners’ Access Askham Grange Perverting course of Still under to the Media was issued to all prisons on 2 July 2010 public justice consideration and they were required to implement it from 12 July. Governors were instructed to inform prisoners as well Prisoners do not need permission from the governor as all staff, particularly Media Liaison Officers, of the to send or receive letters from the media, but correspondence updated policy. which is intended for publication or for use by radio or The restrictions set out on the content and use of television or for posting on the internet (or which if letters are designed to prevent distress to victims. Governors sent, would be likely to be published or broadcast) must may only permit a prisoner to have contact by telephone not contain material which: with a journalist if they are satisfied it will not cause is for publication in return for payment (unless the prisoner is distress to the victim or their family. Approval for a visit unconvicted); by a journalist will normally only be granted following is about the prisoner’s own crime or past offences or those of consideration of the impact on the victim. Any decision others, except where it consists of serious representations to grant an interview must be communicated to victim about conviction or sentence or forms part of serious comment liaison officers (where there are victims of sexual or about crime, the processes of justice or the penal system; violent offences and where the offender received a sentence refers to individual prisoners or members of prison staff in of 12 months or more and in those cases where the such a way that they might be identified; offender was diagnosed with a particular mental disorder) is likely to appear in a publication associated with a person or who must tell the victim or their family. There are no organisation if there is reason to believe that the person or plans to review the policy on prisoner access to the organisation concerned is planning or engaged in activities media at present. which present a genuine and serious threat to security or good order of the establishment or other prisons; contravenes any of the other restrictions on content applying Prisoners: Publications to letters in general which are set out in Prison Service Order 4411 (which is available in the Libraries of both Houses). Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Outside the high security estate, outgoing mail is only how much was spent on the provision of (a) libraries, routinely read in exceptional circumstances, but may be (b) books, (c) newspapers, (d) magazines and (e) read where it is thought likely that a prisoner may periodicals for use by prisoners in each year for which attempt to send out letters that breach the rules on figures are available. [44342] correspondence. A percentage of outgoing mail is read at random. Mr Blunt: The following table provides expenditure The function of media liaison officer will be only a on library services for use by prisoners over the last five small part of the daily duties of the person to whom the financial years. 1057W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1058W

(2) what steps the Prison Service has taken to ensure £ million the safety of those in prison from physical attack from 2006-07 5.4 other prisoners. [44277] 2007-08 5.5 2008-09 6.7 Mr Blunt: NOMS is fully committed to a zero tolerance 2009-10 7.3 approach to violence in prisons. 2010-11 7.6 There have been 15 prisoner on prisoner homicides The figures for 2010-11 are based on forecasts as at since 2000, which is fewer than two per year. In that January 2011. time the prison population increased from 64,600 in 2000 to 85,500 in 2010 (September). The National Offender Management Service’s (NOMS) central accounting system holds expenditure details on Prison homicides by year the provision of library services for use by prisoners in Number summary format. The expenditure figures provided include 2000 3 contracted out library services, staffing costs, library 2001 0 capitation (stock) fees, subscriptions and affiliation fees. 2002 0 The NOMS accounting system does not separate 2003 1 expenditure into books, newspapers, magazines and 2004 2 periodicals. This information could be obtained only by 2005 3 examining local records manually at each establishment 2006 0 at disproportionate costs. 2007 2 Prisoners: Sports 2008 3 2009 0 Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2010 1 how much his Department spent on leisure and sports There has been one alleged homicide in 2011. facilities for prisoners in each of the last five years. Every homicide is regrettable. NOMS is committed [44289] to learning the lessons from each death. In 2002 and Mr Blunt: The following table shows expenditure on following the murder of Zahid Mubarek at HMYOI the provision of prisoners’ recreational activities in each Feltham, the Cell Sharing Risk Assessment (CSRA) of the last five years. process was introduced. All prisoners are assessed for the risk they pose to other prisoners prior to being £ million allocated a cell. The CSRA has been reviewed. The improved process will be implemented in April 2011. 2006-07 3.7 Alongside the CSRA, all prisons have a violence reduction 2007-08 4.3 strategy in place. 2008-09 5.0 2009-10 5.7 2010-11 4.1 Probation Officers

The figures for 2010-11 are based on forecast as at Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice January 2011. whether the probation service has recorded any The National Offender Management Service’s central incidents of threats to probation staff when those staff accounting system holds expenditure details on the have not been on duty in the last 12 months. [44309] provision of prisoners’ recreational activities in summary form, which includes the cost of religious education. It Mr Blunt: The information requested is not collected does not separate this into leisure and sports facilities. centrally. Obtaining it would involve making enquiries This information could be obtained by examining local of each of the 35 Probation Trusts, which would incur records manually at each establishment only at disproportionate cost. disproportionate cost. Prisoners: Voluntary Work Young Offenders: Brighton

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for how many prisoners were engaged in voluntary work in Justice if he will set out, with statistical evidence each of the last five years. [44287] relating as closely as possible to Brighton, Pavilion constituency the effects of his Department’s policies on Mr Blunt: Statistical information on the voluntary (a) the resettlement of young offenders and (b) youth work undertaken by prisoners is not collated centrally reoffending rates since May 2010. [44634] and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost by obtaining information held on offender files, or on local Mr Blunt: The geographical area covered by Brighton data systems, validating it, and then collating it in a and Hove Youth Offending Service (YOS) is different common format. from that covered by Brighton, Pavilion parliamentary Prisons: Homicide constituency and all data collected by the YJB is by youth offending team (YOT) area. Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Data applicable to the period since May 2010 are not (1) how many murders have been committed in prisons yet available as all such data are published annually and in each of the last 10 years; [44276] retrospectively. 1059W Written Answers8 MARCH 2011 Written Answers 1060W

The following question was received and intended The Unified Contract (Civil) was introduced in April 2007. for publication on 1 March 2011: As at 31 March 2008, there were 2,734 organisations delivering services under the Unified Contract (Civil) Legal Aid: Contracts 2007. There are currently 1,776 organisations delivering services under an extension of the Unified Contract Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice until 30 November 2011 in family and family with how many civil contracts to provide legal services were housing categories only. In addition, from 15 November awarded by his Department in 2007; and how many 2010, 1,100 organisations were awarded new Standard such contracts were still active in the latest period for Civil Contracts in all civil non-family work. which figures are available. [42914] As there are effectively two types of contract operating for civil and family categories of law, there may be some Mr Djanogly: The Legal Services Commission (LSC) duplication in numbers of current contracts as some is responsible for the administration of civil contract organisations will be delivering services under both awards. types of contract. 5MC Ministerial Corrections8 MARCH 2011 Ministerial Corrections 6MC

The statistics relate to persons for whom these offences Ministerial Correction were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or Tuesday 8 March 2011 more offences the principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum JUSTICE penalty is the most severe. Data for 2009 will be published on 21 October 2010. Television: Licensing The publication date for 2010 figures has not been finalised but will be announced on the UK National Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Statistics release calendar. Justice how many people in Leeds North West The correct answer should have been: constituency have been prosecuted for not having a television licence in the last 12 months. [16068] Mr Blunt: The number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts for the offence of television licence [Official Report, 11 October 2010, Vol. 516, c. 153W.] evasion under the Communications Act 2003, in the Letter of correction from Mr Crispin Blunt: West Yorkshire police force area for 2008 (latest available), An error has been identified in the written answer was 6,572, Figures are not available at constituency given to the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg level so police force area level data have been provided Mulholland) on 11 October 2010. The answer overstated in lieu. by 80 the number of persons proceeded against for The statistics relate to persons for whom these offences television licence evasion in the West Yorkshire police were the principal offences for which they were dealt force area for 2008. with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or The full answer given was as follows: more offences the principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same Mr Blunt: The number of persons proceeded against disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence at magistrates courts for the offence of television licence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum evasion under the Communications Act 2003, in the penalty is the most severe. West Yorkshire police force area for 2008 (latest available), Data for 2009 will be published on 21 October 2010. was 6,652. Figures are not available at constituency The publication date for 2010 figures has not been level so police force area level data have been provided finalised but will be announced on the UK National in lieu. Statistics release calendar.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 8 March 2011

Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH...... 753 HEALTH—continued Cancer Mortality Rates...... 755 Mixed-sex Accommodation ...... 764 Cancer Services...... 760 MRSA and Clostridium Difficile ...... 758 Cancer Strategy...... 766 NHS Reform...... 756 Care Home Beds (North-east)...... 763 Public Health Duties ...... 753 GP Commissioning Consortia ...... 759 Topical Questions ...... 767 GP Commissioning Consortia ...... 765 Tuberculosis...... 764 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 8 March 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 57WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— EU Competitiveness Council ...... 57WS continued Environment Council...... 58WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL HOME DEPARTMENT...... 59WS AFFAIRS...... 58WS Ending Violence Against Women and Girls ...... 59WS Cattle Movements...... 58WS Police Remuneration and Conditions of Service .... 59WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 8 March 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 922W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Crown Prosecution Service...... 922W continued Public Expenditure...... 923W Community Development Foundation...... 951W Housing Occupancy...... 952W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 994W Local Government: Milk ...... 953W Careers Advice...... 994W Local Government Services: Third Sector...... 952W Citizens’ Advice Bureaux and Law Centres: Mortgages...... 953W Closures ...... 994W Public Expenditure...... 953W Employment: EU Action ...... 995W Rented Housing: Antisocial Behaviour ...... 954W Financial Services: Low Incomes ...... 995W Sleeping Rough ...... 955W Fossil Fuels ...... 995W Social Conditions...... 955W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 996W Translation Services ...... 956W Higher Education: Anti-Semitism...... 996W Voting Systems...... 957W Higher Education: Business ...... 996W Higher Education: Fees and Charges ...... 997W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 923W Higher Education: Finance ...... 997W Arts Council England: South Staffordshire...... 924W Higher Education: Overseas Students ...... 997W Arts Council England: Travel...... 923W Institute for Learning...... 997W British Sky Broadcasting...... 924W Intellectual Property: Reform...... 998W Departmental Expenditure ...... 924W Internet: Regulation...... 998W Departmental Manpower...... 926W Job Creation: North West ...... 998W Departmental Procurement...... 926W Neurology ...... 999W Electoral Reform Services ...... 927W Older Workers: Termination of Employment...... 999W Licensing Laws...... 927W Part-time Education: Student Numbers ...... 1000W Ofcom...... 927W Regional Development Agencies...... 1000W Responsible Gambling Strategy Board...... 928W Regional Growth Fund ...... 1000W Sports: Special Educational Needs...... 928W Students: Finance ...... 1000W Sports: Young People...... 929W Vinyl Acetate...... 1001W Telecommunications: Sign Language ...... 929W

CABINET OFFICE...... 949W DEFENCE...... 913W Census ...... 949W Air Force: Military Bases ...... 913W Civil Servants: Leave...... 950W Air Force: Redundancy...... 913W Electoral Reform Services ...... 950W Armed Forces: Redundancy...... 914W Government Departments: Business Plans...... 950W Blue Force...... 914W Chinook Helicopters...... 914W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 951W Critical Capabilities Pool ...... 915W Affordable Housing...... 951W European Fighter Aircraft ...... 915W Affordable Housing: Olympic Games 2012 ...... 951W Ex-servicemen: Social Security Benefits ...... 916W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE—continued ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued Military Aircraft ...... 916W Environment Protection...... 973W RAF Valley...... 916W EU Emissions Trading Scheme ...... 973W Sea Rescue ...... 916W Nuclear Installations: Accidents ...... 974W Submarines and Warships...... 917W Power Stations: Greenhouse Gas Emissions...... 976W Single Key Low Carbon Investment Fund ...... 977W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 951W Warm Front Scheme ...... 977W Deputy Prime Minister ...... 951W Wind Power: Manufacturing Industries ...... 977W

EDUCATION...... 1002W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Boarding Schools...... 1002W AFFAIRS...... 910W Children: Day Care ...... 1006W Agriculture: Public Expenditure...... 910W Children in Care...... 1002W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 910W Children: Separated People ...... 1007W Fishing Catches: EU Action...... 911W Children: Solvents...... 1007W Government Departments: Sustainable Children’s Centres: Disadvantaged ...... 1007W Development...... 911W Children’s Centres: Teachers...... 1008W Noise: Nuisance ...... 912W College of Social Work ...... 1008W Rural Payments Agency: Operating Costs...... 912W Commercialisation and Sexualisation of Children Towards a Green Economy ...... 913W Review ...... 1009W Curriculum: Religion ...... 1009W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 1037W Departmental Procurement...... 1009W Afghanistan: Peace Negotiations ...... 1037W Education ...... 1011W Burma: Asylum...... 1037W Education: Assessments ...... 1011W Climate Change Convention ...... 1037W Education: Music...... 1012W Departmental Food...... 1038W Education: Reform...... 1012W Departmental Manpower...... 1038W Educational Visits ...... 1013W Departmental Official Residences ...... 1039W English Baccalaureate: Crafts ...... 1013W Electoral Reform Services ...... 1039W English Baccalaureate: Religion ...... 1013W Hague Convention on Civil Aspects of Extracurricular Activities: Impact Assessments ..... 1014W International Child Abduction ...... 1039W Free Schools...... 1014W Hezbollah ...... 1039W GCE A-level...... 1014W Hosni Mubarak ...... 1040W GCE AS-level ...... 1015W Iraq: Christianity ...... 1040W GCSE ...... 1015W Iraq: Minority Groups ...... 1041W Members: Correspondence ...... 1015W Lebanon: Capital Punishment...... 1041W Office of the Schools Adjudicator: Complaints...... 1016W Libya: Politics and Government...... 1041W Pen Green Children and Families Research Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 1042W Centre ...... 1017W Middle East: EU External Relations ...... 1043W Personal, Social, Health and Economic Middle East: Peace Negotiations...... 1043W Education ...... 1017W Muammar al-Gaddafi...... 1044W Pre-school Education: Finance ...... 1017W Palestinians: Elections...... 1044W Primary Education: Teachers ...... 1018W Palestinians: Security Forces ...... 1044W Progress Project...... 1018W Somalia: Piracy ...... 1045W Pupil Exclusions...... 1019W Special Tribunal for Lebanon...... 1045W Pupils: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder... 1020W Sri Lanka: Languages ...... 1045W Reading...... 1021W Sri Lanka: Politics and Government ...... 1046W School Capital Funding ...... 1021W Tibet ...... 1046W School Meals ...... 1023W Voluntary Work and Charitable Donations...... 1046W Schools: Discipline...... 1023W Yemen ...... 1047W Schools: Holocaust Memorial Day ...... 1023W Schools: Laboratories ...... 1023W HEALTH...... 978W Schools: Vetting ...... 1024W Accident and Emergency Departments: Bexley...... 978W Schools: Vocational Guidance...... 1024W Cancer Services: Women ...... 978W Special Educational Needs...... 1024W Departmental Domestic Visits ...... 979W Special Educational Needs: Hearing Impairment .. 1025W Departmental Manpower...... 980W Sure Start Programme...... 1025W Departmental Procurement...... 981W Sure Start Programme: Liverpool ...... 1025W Departmental Regulation...... 982W Teachers: Registration...... 1026W Disability Aids ...... 985W Teachers: Rights of Accused...... 1026W Electoral Reform Services ...... 985W Teachers: Vocational Guidance ...... 1027W Food Standards Agency...... 985W UN Convention on the Rights of the Child ...... 1027W General Practitioners ...... 986W Vocational Education: GCSE...... 1027W General Practitioners: Kent ...... 986W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 1028W Health: Disadvantaged...... 986W Youth Services: Finance...... 1028W Health: Equality...... 987W Hospitals: Food ...... 988W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 968W Hospitals: Waiting Lists...... 988W Biomass ...... 968W Human Papilloma Virus: Vaccination ...... 989W Carbon Budgets ...... 969W Influenza: Deaths...... 990W Departmental Billing ...... 970W Local Democratic Accountability ...... 978W Energy Generation Infrastructure ...... 970W National Blood Service ...... 991W Energy: Hastings...... 973W NHS: Private Sector...... 991W Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH—continued PRIME MINISTER ...... 949W Nutrition: Health Services ...... 991W Armed Forces: Middle East ...... 949W Obesity...... 992W Out of Area Treatment ...... 992W SCOTLAND...... 966W Patients ...... 992W Departmental Billing ...... 966W Pregnant Women: Stress...... 993W Departmental Food...... 967W Social Services...... 993W Electoral Reform Services Ltd ...... 967W Tobacco ...... 993W Military Assistance ...... 967W RAF Kinloss...... 966W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 930W Strategic Defence and Security Review ...... 968W Asylum ...... 930W Visits: Edinburgh ...... 968W Crime: Statistics ...... 932W Death: Registration...... 932W TRANSPORT ...... 918W Departmental Leaseback Arrangements ...... 933W Aviation: Security...... 918W Departmental Manpower...... 933W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 918W Departmental Procurement...... 933W Driving Offences: Insurance...... 918W Detention Centres...... 934W Driving Standards Agency ...... 918W Detention Centres: Children ...... 934W Heathrow Airtrack...... 919W Electoral Reform Services Ltd ...... 936W London and Southeastern Railway: Passengers ..... 919W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 936W Pedestrian Crossings ...... 919W Homicide ...... 940W Railways: Construction...... 919W Human Trafficking ...... 941W Roads: Safety ...... 920W Illegal Immigrants: Deportation ...... 942W Southeastern ...... 920W Immigrants: Detainees ...... 942W Taxis: Road Traffic Offences ...... 920W Immigration Controls: Travellers ...... 943W Transport: Finance...... 921W Immigration: Northern Ireland...... 943W Members: Correspondence ...... 943W TREASURY ...... 957W Missing Persons ...... 944W Aggregates Levy: Northern Ireland...... 957W Passport Office: Liverpool ...... 944W Air Passenger Duty ...... 958W Police ...... 944W Child Benefit...... 958W Police Community Support Officers: Redundancy. 945W Child Benefit: British Nationals Abroad ...... 958W Police: Contracts...... 946W Children: Day Care ...... 958W Police: Pensions...... 946W Credit Default Swaps ...... 959W Shahid Shabaz Khan...... 946W Departmental Billing ...... 959W Special Constables ...... 947W Departmental Leaseback Arrangements ...... 960W Telecommunications: Databases ...... 947W Departmental Manpower...... 960W Terrorism: Deaths ...... 948W Green Investment Bank ...... 957W UK Human Trafficking Centre ...... 948W Immigrants: Income...... 960W Vetting ...... 948W Industrial Diseases: Compensation ...... 960W Voluntary Work and Charitable Donations...... 949W Members: Correspondence ...... 961W Mortgages: Misrepresentation ...... 961W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 963W NHS: Redundancy Pay ...... 961W Departmental Manpower...... 963W Private Finance Initiative ...... 962W Developing Countries: Remittances ...... 963W Tax Allowances: Married People...... 963W Electoral Reform Services ...... 964W Taxation: Banks ...... 963W International Assistance...... 964W Rwanda: Health Services...... 965W WALES...... 909W Yemen: Overseas Aid ...... 965W Departmental Billing ...... 909W Departmental Expenditure ...... 909W JUSTICE...... 1048W Departmental Food...... 909W Departmental Billing ...... 1048W Departmental Manpower...... 909W Departmental Leaseback Arrangements ...... 1048W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 909W Electoral Reform Services Ltd ...... 1048W Electoral Reform Services Ltd ...... 910W European Court of Human Rights ...... 1048W Human Rights: EU Action ...... 1049W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 1028W Legal Aid: Contracts...... 1059W Council Tax Benefits...... 1028W Legal Aid: Fees and Charges...... 1049W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 1028W Legal Aid Scheme: Payments ...... 1049W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 1029W Magistrates Courts: Skipton ...... 1050W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 1029W Pleural Plaques Extra-statutory Scheme ...... 1050W Disability Living Allowance...... 1029W Prisoners ...... 1050W Employment Schemes: Disability...... 1030W Prisoners: Clothing ...... 1053W Future Jobs Fund: Coventry ...... 1031W Prisoners: Education...... 1053W Housing Benefit ...... 1032W Prisoners: Mass Media...... 1054W Housing Benefit: Coventry...... 1032W Prisoners: Publications...... 1056W Jobcentre Plus: Temporary Employment...... 1033W Prisoners: Sports...... 1057W Older People: Employment ...... 1034W Prisoners: Voluntary Work...... 1057W Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals ...... 1035W Prisons: Homicide...... 1057W Social Security Benefits: Internet ...... 1035W Probation Officers...... 1058W State Retirement Pensions...... 1035W Young Offenders: Brighton ...... 1058W Universal Credit...... 1036W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Tuesday 8 March 2011

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not later than Tuesday 15 March 2011

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 8 March 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 753] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Health

Charitable Healthcare Providers (Value Added Tax Relief) [Col. 776] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Nic Dakin)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

European Union Bill [Col. 779] As amended, considered; read the Third time and passed

Petitions [Col. 877]

Humanitarian Disasters [Col. 879] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Young Offenders [Col. 149WH] Armed Forces (Pensions and Benefits) [Col. 172WH] University Admission [Col. 188WH] Voluntary Sector (Nottingham) [Col. 197WH] Eco-island Strategy (Isle of Wight) [Col. 207WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 57WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 909W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 5MC]