NATIONAL ENERGY BOARD OFFICE NATIONAL DE L’ÉNERGIE
PUBLIC REVIEW OF ARCTIC SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL OFFSHORE DRILLING REQUIREMENTS
EXAMEN PUBLIC DES EXIGENCES RELATIVES À LA SÉCURITÉ ET À L’ENVIRONNEMENT POUR LES ACTIVITÉS DE FORAGE EXTRACÔTIER DANS L’ARCTIQUE
VOLUME 1
Roundtable held at Table ronde tenue au
Midnight Sun Complex Inuvik, Northwest Territories
September 12, 2011 le 12 septembre 2011
International Reporting Inc. Ottawa, Ontario (613) 748-6043
© Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada 2011 © Sa Majesté du Chef du Canada 2011 as represented by the National Energy Board représentée par l‟Office national de l‟énergie
This publication is the recorded verbatim transcript Cette publication est un compte rendu textuel des and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et official languages, depending on the languages transcrite dans l‟une ou l‟autre des deux langues spoken by the participant at the public hearing. officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l‟audience publique.
Printed in Canada Imprimé au Canada
Transcript Hearing Order GH-1-2011 ROUNDTABLE / TABLE RONDE
Public Review of Arctic Safety and Environmental Offshore Drilling Requirements
Examen public des exigences relatives à la sécurité et à l‟environnement pour les activités de forage extracôtier dans l‟Arctique
ROUNDTABLE LOCATION/LIEU DE LA TABLE RONDE
Roundtable held in Inuvik (Northwest Territories), Monday, September 12, 2011 Table ronde tenue à Inuvik (Territoires du Nord-Ouest), lundi, le 12 septembre 2011
BOARD PANEL/COMITÉ D'AUDIENCE DE L'OFFICE
G. Caron Chairman/Président
D. Hamilton Member/Membre
L. Mercier Member/Membre
G. Habib Member/Membre
K. Bateman Member/Membre
TABLE OF CONTENTS/TABLE DES MATIÈRES (i)
Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe
Opening remarks by Mr. Swiderski 1
Opening prayer by Mary Teya 4
Welcoming remarks by Chairman Gaétan Caron 14
Introduction of Board Members 37
Remarks on logistics 87
Introduction of participants 196
Presentation by Ms. Romanchuk 233
Roundtable discussion 281
Introduction of participants 595
Presentation by Ms. Cournoyea 670
Presentation by Mr. Pokiak 697
Presentation by Dr. Amagoalik 774
Presentation by Mr. Smith 808
Introduction of participants 860
Presentation by Mr. Ayles 943
Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos 983
Presentation by Ms. Peart 1054
Presentation by Mr. Birchall 1170
Presentation by Mr. Snowshoe 1212
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Opening prayer Ms. Teya --- Upon commencing at 9:37 a.m./La session débute à 9h37
1. MR. SWIDERSKI: I‟ll do some administration, some housekeeping in a moment but I just want to get us started for the morning, and very importantly for a gathering such as this, is to show respect and start with a prayer.
2. This morning we have the good grace of having Mary Teya who will lead us in the opening prayer.
3. Mary...?
4. MS. TEYA: Thank you.
5. Good morning, everyone. Let us pray.
6. Heavenly Father, we just thank you for the rest of the past night, for the gift of another new day. We pray that today you will be among us, that you will look upon each and every one of us and we pray that you will protect our families back home; our children, our people. And we pray that through the Holy Spirit you will keep our communities safe and healthy.
7. We pray today too that you will be among us as we begin the meetings here, the discussions, to be able to listen to one another and honestly and most importantly to voice our opinions, the things that are important to us and we pray that you will be with us, continue to be with us during this week and we pray for all those who are in need.
8. Lord, we just pray that you will continue to be among our people and we pray that you will keep our country, our lands, our water, everything that is important to us in good condition.
9. We pray all this in the name of our Lord Jesus.
10. Amen.
11. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you, Mary.
12. My name is Andy Swiderski and part of how we‟re going to start this morning is to hear from Gaétan Caron, the Chair of the National Energy Board and then after that I will outline the mechanics of what we‟re here to do and how our
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Welcoming remarks Chairman conversation will unfold today and over the course of the week.
13. But first let‟s hear from Gaétan.
14. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Andy.
15. Oblaa'kut, Van Gwizzi. Good morning and welcome to the Arctic Review Roundtable.
16. My name is Gaétan Caron. I am Chair and Chief Executive Officer of the National Energy Board, or the NEB. I would like to thank Mary Teya for leading the opening prayer.
17. I thank all of you who have made a long journey from home, away from family and your other business, to contribute to this important discussion on Arctic offshore drilling.
18. I would like to recognize that our Roundtable has representatives from the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, the Yukon, many other locations in Canada, as well as Greenland, Norway, and the United States.
19. The Roundtable is a chance to be together, to share our views on Arctic offshore drilling, to examine and comment on all aspects of the Arctic Review and to ask questions of each other.
20. During the Roundtable we will share knowledge. We will seek to understand each other and we will talk about the information people will want to see in future applications to drill an offshore well in the Arctic.
21. The Roundtable is not an NEB hearing; no decisions about future offshore wells will be made here or in the Board‟s public report on the Arctic Review which we still plan to release before the end of 2011.
22. We have five members of the Board present here at the Roundtable this week. We have colleagues back in Calgary and they too will be involved in writing our public report. The full Board is engaged in this very important review.
23. The review was initiated in May 2010, within days of the Deepwater Horizon blow-out in the Gulf of Mexico. Eleven (11) people died in the explosion and fire of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform and the oil flowed out of control
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Welcoming remarks Chairman for nearly three months after the platform sank, causing one of the biggest oil spills in recent memory.
24. Many things that should not have happened happened there. Many safety measures that should have worked did not work. Many important lessons must be learned from the Deepwater Horizon and other drilling accidents. And more importantly, we must implement and never forget those hard lessons.
25. Last fall and this past winter and spring, NEB Members and staff had the honour to visit and listen to people of the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and the Yukon. We met with high school students and youth, Elders, hunters and trappers, land claim organizations, governments, community leaders and community members. I was in the room for many of those conversations.
26. We invited our hosts to tell us what they had on their mind about drilling for oil and gas in Arctic waters, they responded generously and they shared their hopes and their fears. We heard about the importance of the ocean, the land, animals, and how they are all connected. We heard about opportunities and risks.
27. Listening to them changed us. We came out of these meetings with a more personal sense of accountability for safety and environmental protection in Arctic offshore drilling.
28. In each community we reminded ourselves that we were meeting the people who would be most directly affected by successful drilling, and most affected by a drilling accident.
29. Meanwhile, we had asked all interested Arctic Review participants to share their best available information on how to drill safely and protect the Arctic environment.
30. To help focus participants on the key matters, we issued a large number of questions in two Calls for Information. We asked questions about the aspects of Arctic offshore drilling that we believe to be essential to any future consideration of an offshore drilling project. These are questions that Canadians deserve to have answered.
31. Arctic Review participants responded with more than 50 submissions, totalling thousands of pages. We have examined all of these documents, and want to
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of Board Members
express our thanks for the information that has been made available to all persons interested in the Arctic Review.
32. The review and this week‟s Roundtable will no doubt establish that many hard questions remain to be answered in sufficient detail. We may also confirm that much preparation remains before the capacity to drill safely and protect the environment exists in the Canadian Arctic.
33. In this sense, the Arctic Review, with your help, will allow the NEB to give Canadians a heads-up about the work that remains to be done and the preparation that must occur.
34. A key product of the Arctic Review will be a list of the information or filing requirements that the NEB will require before it can make a decision on future Arctic offshore drilling projects. We want to hear what you have to say about that. This is the main concrete thing we need to nail down before the end of 2011 as part of our final public report.
35. On behalf of all the Board Members, I would like everyone gathered here to focus our knowledge, wisdom and energy to help answer the main question: What do Northerners and other Canadians want to see in future applications for Arctic offshore drilling?
36. I will now invite my Board Member colleagues to introduce themselves. Kenneth first, please.
37. MEMBER BATEMAN: Good morning. My name is Kenneth Bateman.
38. Thank you for taking the time to travel to meet together here in Inuvik and thank you for inviting us into your community. We appreciated and enjoyed the generosity, spirit and hospitality with the meal we shared together and the cultural presentations that occurred on Saturday.
39. It‟s important to have this discussion in the North where you are deeply connected to the land and the sea. I have come to listen carefully to understand your views, to listen to your questions and to have a better appreciation of the great Northern Region that you call home and is also your way of life.
40. The discussion over the next few days is also important because in meeting and working together we will all move forward in ways that will respect and
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of Board Members
preserve the unique cultures that have existed in the North for hundreds of years in ways that will protect the beautiful environment that you live in, and to take into consideration the thoughts and expectations that you have about building the future for your communities, for your families and for the most precious natural resource of all, and that is your children and grandchildren.
41. I look forward to the next five days. Thank you.
42. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Kenneth.
43. Georgette, please?
44. MEMBER HABIB: Good morning. My name is Georgette Habib.
45. I‟m extremely honoured to be here amongst you today. I had the good fortune to meet some of you in the meetings that Gaétan had referred to. For all the others, I have carefully read the meeting summaries and was no less moved than being there in person.
46. I want to thank you all for being here. I also want to thank those who are monitoring from a distance.
47. I thank you for your submissions. They are very extensive and I found them to be helpful in terms of building knowledge. The information that you have provided is of very high quality, challenging and thought-provoking, very much reflective of the importance of why we are here.
48. I look forward for the next few days with you here, listening to all of the parties in preparation for the very important task which is establishing the filing requirements that need to be met by potential applicants to drill in the Arctic offshore.
49. As we do that, I am hoping that we will be guided by knowledge, learnings from the past, love of the land and the ocean, and above all, by the profound responsibility for safety of people and the environment.
50. Thank you very much.
51. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Georgette.
52. Lyne, please?
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of Board Members
53. MEMBER MERCIER: Bonjour à tous. Hi. Good morning to all of you.
54. My name is Lyne Mercier. Unlike some of my colleagues, I was not able to attend community meetings. I am pleased to finally be able to hear firsthand what participants have to say.
55. We have an impressive record before us. Its breadth is impressive. I was especially moved by the written summaries of the meetings held in different communities. I could almost picture the faces of the people speaking the words I was reading.
56. While certain technical reports required my undivided attention and were at times challenging to read, some of the inquiry reports were, on the other hand, virtual page-turners. I am thankful to individual communities, industry, scholars, governments and other participants who provided us with a wealth of information through comments, calls for information and the filing of so many insightful reports.
57. I am confident that this roundtable will help complement the record and provide us with the necessary information to determine filing requirements for drilling safety in the Arctic while protecting people and the environment. Your presence here today speaks of the importance of this issue for Northerners and other Canadians.
58. In closing, let me emphasize how honoured I feel to be able to be part of such an important process. I will be listening carefully.
59. Thank you.
60. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Lyne.
61. And, David, please?
62. MEMBER HAMILTON: Oblaa,kut, Van Guizzi. Good morning and thank you, Gaétan, for the opportunity.
63. My name is David Hamilton and I am pleased to be back in Inuvik and the Delta, a place very familiar to me, and to be sitting here with such an amazing group of people from each of our three Northern Territories, as well as knowledgeable
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of Board Members
people from across Canada. Therefore, we are truly representing our country from coast to coast to coast, and also from the United States, Greenland and Norway.
64. All here for the same reason, to share and exchange knowledge and wisdom in relation to this extremely important matter of the potential for offshore drilling in the Canadian Arctic, and specifically to provide all of us at this Roundtable, and those who are listening to us through the broadcasting of this gathering, with an opportunity to have a conversation about what Northerners and other Canadians want to see in future applications for drilling -- Arctic offshore drilling.
65. I know we have a lot of work in front of us, but already we have come so far. What struck me, and if you apologize -- and I apologize for the pardon for the -- the pun, drilling down through the information that has been filed in the Arctic Review was the depth of what we had gathered and what more we will need.
66. The wealth of information that has been created in the public record is impressive, and I am confident that this will be our legacy and should be and will be available to all those who want to access it.
67. I was fortunate to have visited Inuvialuit and Gwich‟in and communities in this region of the Northwest Territories where offshore drilling has occurred in the past, and travelled to Nunavut and the Yukon to hear the voices of people who live in those amazing parts of the Arctic.
68. I am sure what is obvious to many of us in this room is how everything is connected and what may affect one part of the ecosystem affects individuals and communities over distance and time.
69. In listening closely to all the voices during our initial meetings in the Arctic Review, and reading carefully the detailed submissions to the NEB by so many people and organizations. I‟d like to share two observations for the opening of this roundtable that I was struck with.
70. I found the past is always present; and, secondly, as individuals and communities and organizations, we learn and expand knowledge when there is a reason to understand.
71. The Arctic Review process and this roundtable gathering gives us an important reason to learn from each other and move forward to fully understand what
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of Board Members
Northerners and other Canadians want to see in future applications for Arctic offshore drilling.
72. Qujannamiik, Quana, Mashi.
73. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, David.
74. A few more introductions before we get going. We have many staff members who are here to help you this week. Please do not hesitate to ask them about any assistance you may require.
75. Can I have them wave their hand, just if you know who they are and you can choose the nearest one to help you with anything?
76. And that includes, for those of you who might be standing or would prefer a better seat, there‟s lots of seats on this side of the room and there‟s also lots of front-row seating. It‟s the same price; you don‟t need to pay a surcharge for it, for front row. And they‟re available to anybody who would like to be there.
77. We also have our transcribers, Johanne and Aline. Just in front of the clock there, there‟s the transcriber‟s table.
78. Part of the lasting legacy of the Arctic Review will be the written transcript of everything that will be said here this week. We thank them in advance for their important work. And a good way to help them in their work is to introduce yourself every time before you speak, and speak slowly and clearly so that your thoughts are properly recorded for posterity.
79. We finally have an experienced team of facilitators to help ensure that the Roundtable is a meaningful opportunity to discuss these issues of vital importance to northern residents and Canadians.
80. First, I will identify -- Jim Micak has over 35 years of experience as a facilitator. Jim is standing there. He has done more than 100 multi-participant information gathering and problem solving processes. In 1994, himself and Andy, whom I‟m about to introduce, became partners, and since then, he has been involved in dozens of facilitation processes across Northern Canada. Thank you, Jim.
81. Andy Swiderski has spent most of his working life living in the North. He
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Remarks on logistics
has worked with just about all of the organizations gathered here today and brings over 30 years of facilitation and consultation, interdisciplinary research, and project management experience.
82. And Vicki McCulloch is here as well; Vicki is standing now -- has professional experience in Canada‟s north spending almost 15 years working with communities, Inuit and Aboriginal organizations, regulators, governments, industry, and NGOs on a variety of projects.
83. As part of the relevance to the Roundtable, she has been involved with the Arctic Council‟s Emergency Prevention Preparedness and Response Working Group and the development and implementation of the Beaufort Sea Integrated Ocean Management Plan.
84. So we‟re delighted to have this team of facilitators available to us all week.
85. And now that I have done this introduction, I may now focus more on listening and ask the facilitation team to take it from here.
86. Thank you.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
87. MR. SWIDERSKI: Good morning. Once again, I have the task of talking a little bit about how we‟re going to conduct our conversation, how we‟re going to actually do this, given the overwhelmingly very positive level of interest here.
88. We have -- we have a good problem in the sense that so many more people have expressed interest and are here, as well as those who are listening to participate. So what I‟m going to do is take a few moments and walk us through how we‟re going to try and conduct our conversation over the week itself, as soon as I get this going.
89. My talk is going to approach a couple of areas. I going to talk about the purpose of the Roundtable itself, I think, importantly. I‟m going to talk about the process, not in any great detail because you‟ve heard that from the Board members themselves and certainly with the materials that virtually all of you are already familiar with.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Remarks on logistics
90. I‟m going to talk about the agenda, how we‟re going to conduct the agenda, a little bit about who‟s here and who‟s participating. And ultimately I‟m going to spend a few minutes talking about how we will work together.
91. With a large group like this, it is important that we be reasonably flexible to make sure that all voices are heard and that everybody has a chance to express their views.
92. There is a lot to be done, but we have five days, and with the level of interest in energy, we will get through it.
93. With regards to the first matter of hand -- which really is the Arctic Review process itself -- the reason we‟re here really is essentially to share information and have a conversation.
94. We‟ll talk about your resource binder. It has a detailed agenda, but I‟ve learned over the years certainly working from you and learning with you, is talk in as plain language as you can. We are here basically to share information.
95. As Gaétan mentioned, it really is about what you feel, all of you. All the range of interests I feel is important to consider, to think about, as it relates to potential drilling and resource development.
96. And ultimately what Gaétan and the other Board members were referring to is we need to come away with a sense of what have we shared, what are those elements that need to be considered in future applications?
97. The Arctic Review Process began, as Gaétan mentioned, as a result of not just a single event, but rather of growing interest across the circumpolar world about offshore resources.
98. In order to help guide that discussion, the process identified four basic, but very much critical, themes to this.
99. We began with asking the question about drilling safely in order to protect workers and the environment. The second theme talked about responding effectively.
100. As any of you know in your respective lines of work things don‟t always go as you had hoped or as you had planned. So the idea of being able to respond,
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Remarks on logistics
whether it‟s within your families, your companies, or if you‟re out on the land, equipment breaks; things go wrong; weather changes. How do you respond?
101. The third theme talked about what can we learn from others? And that learning is not necessarily just through bad incidents, from accidents and malfunctions, but the growing base of understanding of things that work well, of progress and technology.
102. And the forth theme really was, what is it that needs to be put forward in an application so that regulators, in this case the NEB, but as well as others, many who are in this room, need to be aware of in reviewing potential proposals?
103. So how do we get to this point? There is a copy of this diagram that I‟m going to walk through, and it‟s going to appear in bits at a time on the screen because there‟s a lot of information, and I don‟t want to get into all the text, but I want to walk you through for two reasons. One is to tell you how we got to this point and to talk about what is left to do.
104. As Gaétan mentioned, the Arctic Review Process began with specific objectives. The four themes were identified as well as specific aspects and questions that needed to be addressed. Those four themes and those objectives, I‟m not going to go through. We‟ve got this. But I want you to be comfortable in the sense that this week, this Roundtable is intended to explore those four themes and those 11 objectives.
105. How are we going to have a conversation over the week? We‟ll touch upon all aspects of that.
106. There‟s a couple of things happened in order to make this process unfold. There was a call for -- a call for information. There was two of them that asked a series of questions and asked everybody who had expertise, knowledge, to share the best available information. That was done.
107. There was a series of community meetings. There was a second call for information which looked at building a bit more knowledge responding to the four themes.
108. And the NEB also commissioned a number of special reports on technical aids. And you will have the opportunity to hear from some of the researchers and presenters over the week.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Remarks on logistics
109. These deal with specific technical matters, they deal with the environmental matters and, importantly, they deal with many of the things that the NEB has heard so far as being important; important to you.
110. In preparation for this Roundtable a second tour of communities was conducted and they were called information meetings. What they were essentially intended to do was to prepare, seek more guidance as far as how to develop this Roundtable; what is the best way for people to be heard.
111. We are here today at the Inuvik Roundtable with that fundamental question that you‟ve heard several times and you will hear several more times over this week is, what do Northerners and other Canadians want to see in future filing applications for offshore drilling? That is our touchstone. That‟s our Inuktitut that we‟ll keep coming back to over the course of the week.
112. And, finally, what is left to do? The NEB will be producing a public report before the end of this year and which will address all aspects of what was heard and come to its views as what should be in those filing requirements.
113. So that‟s a long, long kind of route as far as how we got here, but it‟s important that all of us understand why we‟re here and how we got here.
114. I want to take a moment and talk about how the Roundtable will work for as best as I can contribute with my team how to help you have a constructive week. We have the reference materials. We have presentations. But ultimately what needs to happen is that there needs to be open and respectful conversation.
115. We also heard -- and I try to integrate particularly through my team‟s experience -- one central lesson that I learned 30 years ago in working with communities; leave enough time for discussion. Yes, facts are important, graphics are important, reports are important, but leave enough time for discussion. And I‟ll come back to that to share with you how I think we have tried to respond to that over the coming week.
116. As well, because of the complex nature of this type of resource and activity, it‟s important that all forms of knowledge be recognized and respected, including the language that people use to express that, and it‟s more than just a surface recognition. Yes, there‟s lots of science and engineering work, but there is also a wealth of traditional knowledge, Inuit traditional knowledge and variations of.
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Those are as fundamental to people as what the technical experts may contribute, which is very important as well.
117. You have in your binders -- and I‟ll go through that in a moment -- about a 10-page agenda because of the complex nature. There‟s lots of people here. There‟s lots to discuss. But I want to share with you essentially a bird‟s eye view of how we are hoping, with your support, how the week will unfold.
118. We have five days to have this conversation. We began already our opening remarks, essentially what we‟re doing right now. We will move through the first part of the agenda, which is talking about understanding participants‟ interests.
119. And that‟s important because we have a wide range of interests, not only in terms of organizations but geographies, right from the Eastern Artic through to the Yukon. It is important that this is across the Artic, it‟s not just in one territory or one region, and we have to respect that.
120. You will see, following my overview, the first presentations, which we‟ll talk about, what it is that the NEB has heard so far. Pamela will walk us through that, share what has been learned so far. It‟s not necessarily finished.
121. The green doc that you see on there, that we‟re going to see in the next moment, is all the places that we have set time aside for a discussion for your voices to be heard.
122. Today we‟ll hear from other organizations, mining industry organizations, their views, things that they want to share. Today is more of a talking circle, certainly for the mining. We‟ll also have the benefit and generous support in discussions that I‟ve had with industry representatives some of their views, some of the things that they want to share. And again, we will have a Roundtable discussion, time to talk.
123. The second part of our conversation really will look at how to do things right. In your detailed agenda, which is in Tab A -- but again I‟ll talk to it -- we‟re going to hear presentations from across the Artic about one important aspect, which is the unique environment. So people will talk about that. We‟re going to have a Roundtable discussion.
124. We‟ll then move into our second theme, which is about the regulatory environment. How do things work? Who looks after things? We then will have another discussion.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Remarks on logistics
125. The third thing touches upon, again, what we have learned and continue to learn from others across North America, across the world that can help us better understand and perhaps make choices that are acceptable.
126. The fourth theme starts to move into a number of the more technical areas, but I can assure you from what I‟ve seen, it is highly interesting, and despite some of the complexity of it, this is important, it‟s about drilling safely. You‟ll hear from folks who are knowledgeable, who spend their working life in this area, and you‟ll have an opportunity for Roundtable discussion to ask questions.
127. Our fifth theme will talk about the reality of, how do you respond when things go wrong? Whether it‟s by a technical aspect, whether it‟s a force of nature, whether it‟s human error, or some combination of those, how do you respond? What needs to be done?
128. And there are several areas in your agenda that will talk about this, everything from spill response to tracking and containment aspects, worker safety, the role of organizations, including the role of communities, the role of industry. And again, we‟ve set a good block of time aside for a Roundtable discussion, time to talk.
129. We will then move into the latter part of the week, which essentially will allow us to start to bring things together to a close. We will provide again an opportunity, based on everything you‟ve heard in part one and part two, another -- another land of discussion. And then we will wrap up our conversation on Friday.
130. Your detailed agenda has specific time slots, and those are important. We‟ll be talking about those every day. We‟re going to make adjustments so that we can continue to have respect for people‟s time, schedules, but still stay focussed on our -- on our schedule, which is to move our way through all these things.
131. At the beginning of every day, we will present with, to you how we‟re going to conduct that day because most of you are getting a little grey around there, and it‟s hard to remember what‟s going -- what you‟re going to do four or five days from now. I struggle.
132. As far as the participant binder, if I could ask you to open up the table of contents. I won‟t spend a lot of time on this because we‟ll be referring to specific areas in the binder as we move our way through the week. But in essence, the -- the first -- first tab, you see there‟s a highlighted summary, tabs 1 to 9, and there‟s a more
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detailed breakdown on the pink page as far as what‟s in each tab.
133. It‟s not important for you to go through it now, but it‟s just that there is a sense of wanting to share information -- all the information that‟s available. As additional materials, presentations unfold over the week, there is a clear commitment that everything will be shared on the website on there. Anything that you may be missing, grab one of the support staff facilitators. We‟ll do our best to resolve it.
134. But I do want to draw your attention simply to tab 1, which is where your agenda is, and we‟ll be -- we‟ll be talking about that in a moment.
135. The important question as far as who‟s here, who‟s participating. You were given a one-page summary in terms of the organizations that are here rather than the individuals, per se. We have a large group. 136. 137. There will be a list of those who agree to release their name and contact co-ordinates at the end of the roundtable, but you also get a chance -- every one of you will be introduced over the course of today, a chance to stand up and tell us your name and where you‟re from.
138. Very briefly, as far as the cross-section of who‟s here and why it‟s important, because it does give a broad perspective. It‟s not just certain groups or certain areas. We‟ve got a large contingent. We‟ve got close to 190 people at this point registered.
139. We have representatives from all three territories across Canada, Greenland, Norway, and the United States. We have community representatives from the NWT and Nunavut. We have Elders, youth, hunters and trappers. We have crew management and resource management bodies. You see that in your list.
140. And, again, I‟m not being disrespectful. It‟s just -- I know you‟re anxious to get down to the details.
141. We have representatives of various levels of government. I see the listing on the page. We also have a number of non-government organizations; the Canadian Labour Congress, a number of important groups whose focus and interest is in environmental matters. Contributing to the discussion we have industry. Again, all of you will be introduced. We have the interpreters, of course, and you have the Board members.
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142. I always like to take a moment and essentially give each of us a job description, so what are we here to do? What‟s our specific role? Your job is the toughest in the sense that you‟re here to share information. You‟re here to listen, you‟re here to ask questions, raise the level of understanding as we go through the week.
143. The presenters themselves are here to essentially provide a foundation for us to move into our roundtable discussions. It‟s not meant to be a detailed technical lecture on everything, but essentially to give us a starting point.
144. The NEB Board members are here to listen, ask questions, and to consider all the information that‟s been filed, as well as what is shared during the roundtable. The NEB staff have been absolutely terrific. Everything you see around you is as a result of their efforts and those in Inuvik supporting the community efforts.
145. Our job as facilitators is the easiest. It‟s to simply keep the conversation going, to address your needs as best as we can however discussion unfold, given the large number of participants and the -- and the complexity of some of the subject matters.
146. As I already mentioned, there‟s going to be enough time for everybody to ask questions and make comments. That‟s our job to make sure that your voice is heard, whether you want to speak openly. We also have opportunities, if you prefer to write a note, post it, we will include it in the discussion.
147. There is one area that I would ask your support in. Because we have a lot to do, we‟ve had to break it up into areas of the agenda. To the extent that we can, focus your comments and questions on the subject at hand. We have enough time over the week. We will do our best to make sure that you are heard.
148. It‟s important that we focus our energy and our time to have a constructive and respectful dialogue and try to avoid jumping back and forth. We will get more done. We will all learn more with that approach.
149. And it was left to our judgment as facilitators as to how to do this. We have -- we have concluded that the best way for us to start our discussions, roundtables, is to always begin with the Northerners. Questions, comments, opportunity will be provided for the Northerners first, and then we will move through everybody else.
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150. It is not a sign of disrespect. It‟s just that we want to make sure that the lines of communication are open and that you‟re comfortable. If there are things that are not allowing you to express your voice, come and see me. We will -- we will do whatever we need to fix that.
151. As Gaétan mentioned, we‟re not here to reach consensus on these issues. This is a sharing of ideas. We may have strong views on different aspects of this. We are not seeking agreement or consensus on here. This is a gathering of knowledge. No decisions are being made here.
152. The rest -- because virtually all of you, I‟ve worked with at some point, you understand the need to respect and acknowledge the fact that there may be differing opinions. That‟s the nature of a conversation.
153. I spoke about your opportunities to provide verbal comments, but also to post comments. We have also accommodated because of the need to hear from as many as possible, the webcast. There is an opportunity for those who aren‟t here in person to share their views, post comments, ask questions through the NEB call centre.
154. Those will be shared with you over the course of the week, what the rest of the country is saying on these aspects, but the priority is on you, the people who are physically here.
155. I mentioned the resource binders. We will refer to specific tabs as we go through. There are posters and maps that give you a sense of what‟s been covered, the areas that are of interest, the communities that had been visited.
156. A couple of housekeeping aspects before I wrap up, and I am wrapping up. It‟s important that you use the microphones in order to be heard, to make your voice count. State your name, your organization or community that you‟re from, and talk about your comment or question. Be clear.
157. If you know who you want the question or comment directed to, let me know. Everything should come to the facilitators so that we can make sure everybody has a chance to speak and be heard.
158. There are different headsets of course. All of you are familiar with it. We have the benefit of multiple languages. In the back of the interpretation booths you see the numbers, so whatever language you are comfortable using and speaking, turn
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the channel to that and use the headphones.
159. I would ask you, for your own benefit, to leave the headphone equipment here at the end of the day so the batteries can be recharged or it‟s going to be tough to hear.
160. In terms of some housekeeping matters, of course we have washroom and catering facilities at the back of that. We have also, as is a request for safety and security, including Fire Marshall considerations, if there is a need to evacuate we have exit doors here and at the back of the room as well.
161. If we need to evacuate this, we will reconvene at the front of the building until it‟s clear and then continue on our conversation. Hopefully there‟s no disruption in power or other safety matters.
162. And overall, while the agenda will accommodate schedules and changes, the basic -- I‟m getting ahead of myself.
163. The basic approach will be to start each day on or about 9:30. We will have a morning break. We have about 90 minutes or so for a lunch break to accommodate the number of people at the restaurants. We will have an afternoon break, and we will do our best to try and wrap up about five o‟clock, if not before, every day.
164. Before I hand it over to my colleague Vicki, who will lead us through the next part of the agenda, essentially what I talked about, at the beginning of every day you will see something like this that says here is how we‟re hoping the day will unfold.
165. I want to end with one observation that always comes up in these kinds of gatherings, is that despite the technology, through the internet, long distance telephone, publications, the web, Google, the most remarkable thing is that we, as a group, as a society, continue to be a collection of storytellers.
166. This is how we communicate more effectively. People read, we share documents, but ultimately, when things need to be done, people come together physically.
167. This is a gathering that has taken a lot of time and effort, and certainly on your part to be here and travel, but because of the importance of this we need to be
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able to act as storytellers over the course of the week.
168. Thank you for your attention.
169. Vicki...?
170. MS. McCULLOCH: Thanks, Andy.
171. So I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to run through what we‟re going to be doing today in terms of part number -- Part number I. The details are contained in your agendas, which are in Tab number 1, as Andy mentioned, and Day 1 is essentially covered in pages 2 to 4.
172. I‟m having the same trouble as you, Andy. I‟ve got two mics up here and -- there we go.
173. All right. So in a couple of minutes we will be running through some of the introduction remarks for this part of the agenda. Essentially Part number I we‟re taking a look at, first of all, what was heard during these earlier meetings in the communities, and Pamela is going to be providing a presentation that will speak to that.
174. The second part of this agenda topic area is to hear about the comments and questions and concerns of other parties, including various folks from parts of -- across the North, but also industry participants as well, and that will occur over agenda items 2.3 and 2.4.
175. Then most importantly, these sections are also going to include opportunities for both questions of clarification for the individual speakers, but also a roundtable as well, and I will get to that in a moment.
176. Maybe not. I love this high tech stuff.
177. Okay. So as I mentioned, agenda item 2.2, Pamela is going to be providing a presentation that will outline what was heard in Phase 1. That will be occurring this morning right before this break and after I finish over-viewing the agenda for the day. There will be a roundtable discussion associated with that as well.
178. We will have lunch from noon until about 1:30.
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179. The second part of Part 2, in agenda item 2.3 involves some presentations from other non-industry folks.
180. And I just wanted to note for you, there have been a couple of revisions in the agenda, and we will go through them again this afternoon, but -- so in section 2.3 we‟ve got a number of presentations outlined there. I just wanted folks to note, so Nellie Cournoyea is going to be providing some remarks on behalf of the IRC, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, Frank Pokiak will be providing some insights from the Inuvialuit Game Council.
181. Sam Ornik from Pond Inlet Hunters and Trappers has had some travel delays, so his presentation, which is shown as number three in that section is going to be moved to Tuesday morning -- or Tuesday afternoon, sorry. So he will be doing his presentation then.
182. John Amagoalik with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association will be speaking as well, and Duane Smith with the Inuit Circumpolar Council.
183. Section 2.4 of this agenda item will be a number of presentations from industry folks, and you will see them outlined in your -- or sorry, non-industry folks as well, so that will continue on with -- the presentation that Michel Chenier is going to be providing is going to be shifted to Section 3.3. So we‟re still on agenda item 2.3 actually folks, sorry.
184. We‟ve also got Burton Ayles from the Fisheries Joint Management Committee providing some remarks. Will Amos of Ecojustice on behalf of the World Wildlife Federation of Canada. Andrea Peart with the Canadian Labour Congress will also be providing some insights for us to share, and then the Section 2.3 will conclude with Charles Birchall with the Canadian Arctic Resources Committee.
185. Section 2.4 is then the industry presentations. We are hoping to get those in by the end of this afternoon. We‟ve got four presentations that are going to be made. Mike Peters will be providing some remarks on behalf of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. We have Michael Peacock with Imperial Oil Ventures Limited; Rod Maier from Chevron and Gary Sykes with ConocoPhillips. So that‟s the overview of today‟s agenda.
186. And just to note that Part I does continue tomorrow; so this isn‟t the end of Part I. There will be another Roundtable discussion tomorrow morning related to Part
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I but we also have a couple of presentations tomorrow morning as well that had to be shifted into the morning. So although it‟s not today‟s agenda, it is Part I.
187. So I‟m just going to quickly touch on that, and that is that first thing tomorrow we‟ll be having a presentation by Josie Eegeesiak with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association. She has to travel back to Baffin so her presentation that was originally in Agenda Item 3.2 is going to be happening tomorrow morning.
188. And then at 10:30 we‟ve got some students coming from Samuel Hearne Secondary School here in Inuvik that will be chatting to us as well. So that will wrap up that -- this agenda topic Number 1.
189. The end of the morning will be spent primarily -- or much of the morning primarily will be spent on the Roundtable discussions related to this agenda item.
190. So with that, any questions on the overall agenda for Day One before I introduce Pamela and we get into the first, I guess, meat and potatoes of the session?
--- (No response/Aucune réponse)
191. MS. McCULLOCH: All right.
192. So our first presentation is going to be provided by Pamela Romanchuk of the National Energy Board. Many of you, I‟m sure, have met her over the past weeks, if not years, that she‟s been working with the Board.
193. She‟s been an environmental specialist with the National Energy Board for over six years. Her focus has been on work in the North, including the Mackenzie Gas Project and of course the Arctic Review, and since December of last year she‟s been travelling across the North to talk with folks in communities and organizations and she‟s given over 25 presentations about the key messages that the National Energy Board has heard during those conversations.
194. And so this morning she‟s going to share some of those messages from the communities with you, and so I would ask you to welcome her up. And please note also that there are some notes from her talk that are included in binder Tab number 2 as well.
195. So with that, I‟d like to turn it over to Pam, please.
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--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
196. MS. McCULLOCH: I‟m just thinking, folks, maybe we‟ll -- we‟re dealing with our technical complications. What we‟re proposing to do, rather than -- as Andy mentioned -- introducing, you know, 200 people at a time, we thought we‟d move about doing about four or five tables at a time over the course of the day. By the end of the day, everybody will be introduced.
197. But if you could please introduce yourselves, we‟ll go with maybe four or five tables at a time and just your name, your organization, your community; that would be great and over the course of the day we‟ll get to know each other if we don‟t already.
198. So what I would ask is perhaps we start with this side of the room and with the table at the front and then we‟ll just go to the back and then back to the front and then to the back, if that‟s okay.
199. There‟s lots of spare seats up here too if folks at the back are looking for a spot to sit. So I‟ll put Johnny on the spot -- that‟s a bad pun but, Johnny, if you could start, please.
200. MR. LENY: I‟m Johnny Leny. I‟m with the Government of Northwest Territories from Inuvik, the Industrial Advisor.
201. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
202. Back to the Town of Inuvik, please.
203. MR. HOOD: Grant Hood; Senior Administrative Officer with the Town of Inuvik.
204. MS. CHALLIS: I‟m Jackie Challis. I‟m here with the Town of Inuvik.
205. MR. RODGERS: Welcome everyone. My name is Denny Rodgers. I‟m the Mayor for this amazing community of Inuvik and I‟d like to welcome everyone.
206. MS. McCULLOCH: Thanks very much. Then I would like to start with the front of the second row and then go back to the back if we could, please.
207. MR. GRUBEN: Good morning, everybody. I‟m Merven Gruben, Mayor
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of Tuktoyaktuk.
208. MR. STUART JR.: Good morning. John Stuart Jr.; Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation.
209. MR. RUBEN: Good morning. Raymond Ruben; Mayor of the Hamlet of Paulatuk.
210. MS. PEART: Good morning. Andrea Peart; Canadian Labour Congress.
211. MR. DICKENS: Good morning. I‟m David Dickens with the Chevron Arctic Centre in Calgary.
212. MR. MAIER: Good morning. Rod Maier; Chevron.
213. MR. SCOTT: Morning. Bill Scott; Chevron Arctic Centre in Calgary.
214. MR. CAREY: Good morning. Kevin Carey; Global Manager of Deepwater and Complex Wells at Chevron.
215. MS. WYATT: Good morning. I‟m Jennifer Wyatt from Chevron in Calgary.
216. MR. DUNCANSON: Sander Duncanson here with Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt on behalf of Chevron.
217. MR. DENSTEDT: Shawn Denstedt, with Osler Advisor to Chevron.
218. MS. McCULLOCH: I think we will continue on.
219. MR. HALL: Good morning. This is James Hall with Imperial Oil from Calgary.
220. MR. PEACOCK: Good morning. This is Mike Peacock from Imperial Oil Calgary and I‟m a resident of Calgary and a very proud Canadian and I‟m very pleased to be here today with everyone for this week‟s discussion.
221. MR. HAWKINS: Good morning. I am Jim Hawkins with Imperial Oil, responsible for Arctic Operations.
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222. MS. KANAYOK: Good morning. My name is Margaret Kanayok, with the Inuvialuit Game Council. Thank you very much.
223. MS. EGOTAK: Good morning. Lena Egotak, the Senior Administrative Officer for the Hamlet of Ulukhaktok.
224. MR. ALIKAMIK: Good morning, everybody. My name is John Alikamik. (Sound difficulties)
225. MS. JOSS: Tracy Joss from Ulukhaktok Youth Council.
226. MS. McCULLOCH: All right, why don‟t we take just a pause then in the introductions and we‟ll have an earlier break than we perhaps anticipated but we can iron out our technical difficulties.
227. So what I would ask folks is if we could break for 15 minutes. It‟s about quarter to 10 -- or quarter to 11. If we could come back at 11p.m. or 11 a.m. that would be great.
228. So thanks for your patience. Hopefully we‟ll be back by 11 p.m.
--- Upon recessing at 10:44 a.m./La session est suspendue à 10h44 --- Upon resuming at 11:01 a.m./La session est reprise à 11h01
229. MS. McCULLOCH: ...will provide some information to you in terms of what the NEB heard while it was out in the communities over the last -- sorry. Pamela, I apologize.
230. Pamela Romanchuk will provide us with her comments with respect to the key messages heard in the communities.
231. So with that I‟ll turn it over to Pamela. Thank you.
232. MS. ROMANCHUK: Thank you, Vicki, and good morning, everyone.
--- PRESENTATION BY/PRÉSENTATION PAR MS. ROMANCHUK:
233. MS. ROMANCHUK: As Susan and I had often said on this trip, things will always work out and thanks for your patience this morning.
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234. I‟m excited we have such a big turnout at our event and it‟s great to see a lot of friends and familiar faces. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to travel to Inuvik and be here for this necessary discussion.
235. The Arctic Review is very important for the National Energy Board as well as Canadians. One of the goals of the review was to meet with Aboriginal groups and Northern communities, to listen and better understand the views of people who could be most directly impacted by offshore drilling activities.
236. The National Energy Board met with people in the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and the Yukon, and had an opportunity to engage people in 11 communities. Over an eight-month period, we met with Elders, hunters and trappers, community corporation representatives, youth from high schools, local governments, Northern organizations, territorial governments and community residents.
237. We have held meetings and information sessions to listen to people in the communities and comments that were expressed are posted as meeting summaries on our web site.
238. I‟d like to thank every community on behalf of my colleagues for taking the time to attend our meetings, making us feel welcome and having the strength to share your views in such an open manner. We understand how important the potential of offshore drilling activity is to you.
239. We heard from different groups that they were glad the National Energy Board took the time to speak with them about offshore drilling. People thanked us for coming to their communities.
240. In Tuktoyaktuk we heard “We are glad that you are here and listening to us. This is good for the Inuvialuit.” In Pond Inlet we heard, “We are happy you are here tonight, you are welcome in our community again anytime. We would like to thank you once more for sharing your time with us.”
241. Part I of the Roundtable is about understanding participants‟ interests. My focus this morning is to share an overview of the messages we heard from Northern communities. Every community and area we visited was unique. We heard many different messages, opinions and concerns, and people asked many difficult questions.
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242. It is interesting that whether we met in the Western or Eastern Arctic, some common topics and issues emerged. I would like to highlight some of those topics that were common, but by no means is this list comprehensive of everything that was discussed during our meetings.
243. If there was an overall key message from our meetings, it might be something like “we all know that energy is important and people understand the need for energy development, but we cannot let this development occur at any cost, it must be done the right way.”
244. Northern residents are interested in benefits and jobs that would flow to the communities from drilling activities, but these activities must be done properly. People recognize that we must learn from past mistakes.
245. We heard that the resources of the ocean environment are connected, so impacts would affect communities far away from the actual drilling area, and any effects from an accident would be felt for a long time.
246. A high school student asked, “Are the risks of drilling worth the benefits?” The unique Arctic environment, including marine animals, is a very important subject that was raised at every meeting across the North. We heard concerns about how strong currents and unpredictable ice conditions could impact drilling activities.
247. The Arctic environment is fragile and people are concerned that it could take significant time to recover if there ever was an accident.
248. People in the communities are isolated and depend on the ocean. All species, such as beluga, char, polar bears, seals and walrus, are connected and important to people in the North.
249. Some communities asked if there is anything in the regulations that deal specifically with the Arctic environment. We know that the Arctic ecosystem is delicate, and people commented that even a slight change could affect the food supply that people depend on.
250. An Elder from the community of Aklavik expressed, “If you take care of the land, it will take care of you.”
251. Presenters in Part II of the Roundtable will speak more about the importance of the unique Arctic environment to all Northern communities. Same
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Season Relief Well capability is a significant issue that was raised.
252. Communities expressed concerns that a blow-out could totally change the way of life for people in the North. We heard comments that oil spill response capability has to be there from the beginning and we cannot wait until something happens.
253. We also heard from communities that the cost of doing business in the Arctic might be to have two drill ships.
254. Many comments were raised about the use of dispersants, including the potential use, if there was a spill, questions about impacts and the need for more research. People asked if dispersants are suitable for use in the Arctic. We also heard that using some dispersants may be less harmful than leaving the oil there.
255. Spill response capability and infrastructure was raised. There is an overall concern in the North with the lack of infrastructure and capacity to deal with an accident. Resources for spill response are limited and people want to know where equipment and resources would come from.
256. A resident of Tuktoyaktuk asked what kind of agreements for spill response there would be with the United States. We heard many comments, including, we are concerned about how a spill could affect our environment; we don‟t want to see a disaster. And co-ordination is important, as communities rely on each other.
257. The question of how ice, currents, darkness and extreme cold and isolated areas add to the challenges of spill cleanup are concerns that Northerners want answers to.
258. Compensation for Northern residents in the event of a spill is a big concern that was raised. We heard everything is connected through the ocean. An offshore spill could decrease the alternatives for country foods, and people are not dependent on just one marine species.
259. People asked, how would the animals and wildlife be impacted if there was a spill, and how can you put a dollar figure on what we have and what we could lose?
260. In terms of clean-up methods, we heard that testing of equipment should
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be done on ice and water using equipment that has been exposed to the elements that are unique to the Arctic environment.
261. How would oil be recovered and cleaned up if an accident occurred? People expressed that prevention of an accident is key, as well as preparedness, including strategically locating spill response and cleanup equipment locally.
262. Impacts of the currents and tides and how they affect where a spill would travel are concerns that must be understood.
263. People asked who would be responsible for cleanup costs. They said companies need to be able to pay for all the costs, and it is not right that Canadians would have to pay.
264. We heard that no amount of money can replace wildlife or their culture, and that one accident could compromise the way of life for the people who live in the North.
265. A community resident from Iqaluit expressed, “The ocean is our farmland.” The subject of wildlife and environmental monitors was discussed, including if they would be hired as part of the drilling projects, as well as the challenges of raising issues with companies on past projects.
266. Concerns were also brought up about speaking out about safety and environmental concerns on projects in case a monitor said the wrong thing and lost their job.
267. In terms of training, people asked about how workers would be properly trained to work in the Arctic environment and deal with all the safety issues. They asked about hiring local residents as workers, including how they could be in a position as first responders if there ever was an accident.
268. We heard the importance for inspections and monitoring by the National Energy Board in assuring that companies are doing what they said they would. People asked how often inspections would be conducted and the importance of ongoing inspections and monitoring by both the National Energy Board and companies to insure safety and protection of the environment during project operations.
269. One last matter that we heard about was the clarity of roles for
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government agencies around drilling activities in the offshore, including working with local governments and boards, how environmental processes are included in project review and how co-ordination occurs in terms of response to an accident.
270. During our travel in the North, many questions were raised by residents of the northern communities. Many of these questions were similar to the calls for information that the National Energy Board posted in late 2010.
271. This week, we have the opportunity to listen to some of the questions that were raised by communities and hear answers to some of these questions from a range of experts, including National Energy Board technical staff, guest speakers in industry.
272. We had the chance to listen to residents of the Northern communities over the past eight months, and now we are here at the Roundtable.
273. The next two days are dedicated to understanding interests.
274. This is a much larger setting, and it might be a little intimidating for some people. We want everyone here to feel comfortable. And it would be very good if people can share their messages with everyone at the roundtable over the next few days.
275. On behalf of my colleagues, I would like to thank all the communities for sharing your messages during my northern meetings.
276. We have the unique opportunity this week to hear views from a variety of participants and follow up with open dialogue. I invite everyone to listen to all points of view that will be shared during the roundtable discussions. I look forward to listening.
277. Thank you.
278. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Pamela.
279. Just before we move into the first Roundtable discussion this morning, did folks have any specific questions related to Pamela‟s presentation? We certainly want to talk about what was heard in communities and what your comments may be. But anything specific before -- before we start the roundtable in terms of the NEB‟s meetings in the communities?
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280. All right. Then I would say thank you very much, Pamela.
281. So I guess we‟ll move into the first Roundtable discussion.
282. I know that a lot of you folks have been involved in these -- the meetings in the communities and in other activities the NEB has undertaken as part of the Artic Review. So I would like to open up the floor for getting the conversation amongst the folks here at the table -- there‟s a range of interests.
283. Essentially do the folks have anything to add to what Pam notes was heard in the NEB‟s journeys across Canada‟s north through the past few months? Please feel free to open up that conversation.
284. I would ask folks, just a gentle reminder, that if you could please indicate your name and your organization or -- and community when you make your remark, that would be great.
285. If you have a general comment, please proceed. If you have a specific question you would like to ask somebody, if you could just let us know who would like to respond, that would be helpful.
286. I would just like to open up the floor to folks, to please let us know what you would like to share with others here at the roundtable in terms of what was heard in the -- in the communities and what you would like the NEB to hear about what folks in the communities would like to see in the filing requirements related to Artic oil and gas.
287. Anybody want to take an initial comment?
288. Nellie...?
289. MS. COURNOYEA: Nellie Cournoyea in IRC.
290. And just on that commentary, it is a very good commentary, very concise, and certainly what I expected that the communities would say.
291. One thing, though, that I find consistently with these types of gatherings is the inability for -- for the stated fact that there is constituted land claims and the process and the regulatory issues that are embedded in those claims and the -- and the
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-- also the particular attention to wildlife and the environment. And I find that often times that this is not recognized. You know, we‟re talking in general terms, and I would say that in general terms people have said that.
292. But I would like to – like to see as we go along that -- whether it -- you know, in the Artic, from Alaska to here to Nunavut to Nunatsiavut to Nunavik, they are -- all the claims are settled, and in those claims are properly constituted agreements on how the involvement of the Inuit would be. And this is -- you know, this is what I find that is missing and not referred to enough, as though they did not exist.
293. So just a note there.
294. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Nellie.
295. Any other remarks from folks in terms of views from individual communities or from your regions that you would like to share at this point?
296. We do, of course, have other sessions coming up on specific topics, but, really, this first session is open to any comments, any questions you might have. Please feel free to start it off.
297. I see some pensive-looking -- sorry. I am sorry. Jim is pointing back there, so I apologize, everyone.
298. MR. GRUBEN: Good morning. Merven Gruben, Mayor of Tuktoyaktuk.
299. I noticed on your -- on your Board and in general over -- over the whole NEB hearings, there is a real lack of experience on -- this is all new, like, in the Beaufort drilling. Like, there is really no experience on your guys‟ Board here.
300. Is there -- you guys have the resources?
301. MS. McCULLOCH: I think I would refer that question to Gaétan Caron.
302. MR. GRUBEN: As you know, there has not been any drilling in the Beaufort for -- major drilling for many years. And, you know, all the full-time drillers, all the people that worked in the Beaufort, they‟re all -- they‟re all gone now. So I just wonder how we‟re going to start this.
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303. And in saying this here, like, on behalf of my hamlet council and a few of my community, we‟re -- you know, we‟re really -- we want things to happen, but we definitely want it to happen safely.
304. As you know, the Americans were given the okay to start drilling in the Beaufort. And if there‟s an oil spill over there, of course, the oil spill does not stop at the Canada/Alaska border. And for years, I‟ve been telling the government, like, we got to be ready. In our community, we‟re right at the worst of what‟s going to happen here.
305. And even if -- even if we have an oil spill from the barges coming -- coming through, we‟re not prepared for that even. But for years, I‟ve been telling the government and the people that we have to have this ready. And we‟re already behind the eight ball. I mean, we‟re left behind already.
306. The Americans are going to start drilling right away, and if there‟s a blow- out, we‟re not prepared. So we got to make sure right now. I mean, we‟ve got to get this going right away.
307. But, like I said, if an oil spill happens, it‟s not going to stop at the borders. It‟s going to come -- it‟s going to come and bother -- or affect all of us, our lives. Our lives will be changed forever.
308. So we just got to be really, really prepared for this.
309. Thank you.
310. MS. McCULLOCH: All right. So I guess I heard two-fold. You‟re concerned also not just about activities within the Canadian jurisdictions, but also internationally over at the Alaska side as well as ensuring that the resources are in place for emergency responses. It‟s been a while since offshore activities have been active, that all those resources are in place for various circumstances, including emergency response.
311. Did you want to --
312. THE CHAIRMAN: I could actually gather my comments until after the people have spoken ---
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313. MS. McCULLOCH: Sure, that would be great.
314. THE CHAIRMAN: --- if it‟s the Chairman speaking. I will get back to Merven on the points he raises.
315. MS. McCULLOCH: Right. And there was a gentleman at the back at the room as well. I‟m sorry, I can‟t see your -- your name.
316. MR. RUBEN: Hi. Lawrence Ruben, Inuvialuit Game Council.
317. Sorry, it doesn‟t -- it seems like I‟m hiding here, but I‟m trying to reach the mic.
318. I have a couple of comments. My first comment is on your introduction of Gaétan and the Board. In the introduction, they say that Northerners and other Canadians -- other Canadian -- other Canadians being either provincially or Canadians as a whole and what their opinions are on this process.
319. My question would be, well, how does the opinion of other Canadians, and what have we learned from the disaster in the gulf, and what can we do to ensure the other Canadians that we‟re -- that we are doing the process in a proper way?
320. MS. McCULLOCH: Gaétan, did you want to respond at this point or wait a moment?
321. THE CHAIRMAN: It‟s up to the facilitator to decide. Would you prefer me to do it now? I can.
322. MS. McCULLOCH: I would ask Mr. Ruben if he would like his response now or if we can wait a moment and maybe the folks will provide some overarching responses at the end of this Roundtable session this morning.
323. Does that work for you?
324. MR. RUBEN: I would be happy if you could answer it when you‟re properly prepared.
325. MS. McCULLOCH: I‟m sorry; could you just -- I couldn‟t quite hear you. Could you just repeat that again? Sorry.
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326. MR. RUBEN: Do you have volume control here?
327. THE CHAIRMAN: He said when we will be prepared, we can talk, and I‟m prepared anytime. I just didn‟t want to take over from people who want to say something from the communities. I am taking notes of everything so far.
328. MS. McCULLOCH: All right. So we‟ll respond later this morning to some of those questions, I guess.
329. Any other remarks from folks in the communities? Eddie?
330. MR. DILLON: Thank you, facilitator.
331. Mr. Chairman, the Board Members and the staff of the National Energy Board, thank you for allowing us to come and attend this workshop here in Inuvik. I‟d like to thank you for the reception you held Saturday night with the entertainment and the meal. And it was so reassuring to hear of the opening of the office here in Inuvik and the staffing of the position with a true Northerner.
332. Now, let us hope that the next announcement -- and I think Merven spoke to it briefly -- will be an Inuvialuit number on the NEB Board as we look forward to the next oil and gas opportunities on the offshore. And I‟m not doubting the capabilities of your existing Board Members to date. I believe we have qualified Inuvialuit who would be a tremendous asset to your Board.
333. Mr. Chairman, the National Energy Board have been to many of our communities, as Pamela has reported, to initially meet and greet and share discussions with us. We have shared some of our questions and concerns with you and your staff.
334. As you are aware, we have all had offshore drilling here in the Arctic before but not to the depths of the water that the new leases are in now. We have witnessed the most recent accidents of the Horizon blow-out and the oil spill, the tsunami off the coast of Japan. I guess the realization from just these two accidents, the worst-case scenario bar will have to be raised quite high.
335. The National Energy Board‟s job is to regulate the operation and all associated support for drilling operations for the safety of the workers. I just wonder are there any other regulatory bodies, such as Department of Fisheries and Oceans, Ministry of Transport for Inuvik Navigational Aids needed for any marine activity, Environment Canada, the Coast Guard for Search and Rescue, are they going to be
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involved or do we wait for an accident for them to show up?
336. Part of the regulatory process Nellie spoke to, the IFA, is a set of the legislated Act. Will that be followed, such as Section 11 and 14 of this Act?
337. In regards to safety measures, what are the plans for a drilling rig for blow-out preventers? History tells us that each blow-out with the Horizon disaster there is only an eight to 10 percent recovery oil in the warm climate conditions of the Gulf of Mexico.
338. We are aware that the drilling operations will be in ice conditions. What are the extra safety measures needed for the safety of the workers and possible blow- out in ice conditions?
339. In the past offshore drilling operations with drill ships and other drilling platforms, the drill waste was dumped into the ocean, ocean dumping act was allowed. Will this be allowed again?
340. It is undeniable to lure that when companies drill, they are trying to retrieve the hydrocarbons they plan to sell, whether it be the barrel or through a tanker system for resale, yet the scientists and engineers that study blow-outs, continuously discuss disperses. Does that mean there is no intention to do a spill clean-up if there is one?
341. There are many questions that need to be addressed and I‟m sure that over the next few days we‟ll hear a lot of them come from individual and people with the expertise, but for a comfort level, to allow drilling to the new depths being discussed, I am sure the people in our communities will be seeking answers and we look forward to the next few days to have the discussions.
342. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
343. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Eddie.
344. And also just to note, folks, if others in the room would like to either provide supplementaries to some of the comments or energy responses, that‟s great. There will be certainly additional opportunities throughout the agenda to talk about some of the very specific topics that he mentioned as well, but we can do that here and now also. So just keep that in mind, folks.
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345. So I notice that Josie also had indicated she would like to make some remarks.
346. MS. EEGEESIAK: Hello. My name is Okalik Eegeesiak. A lot of people call me Josie but most people know me as my name is Okalik. I am from the Qikiqtani Inuit Association. I am the President. Thank you for welcoming me here in the Inuvialuit community.
347. I understand that the National Energy Board Chair stated that you visited those communities in regards to drilling. I understand that we‟re going to go ahead with the same issues related to issues on each agenda and we‟re going to be collecting the information as a report. When are you going to visit the next community and which region are you going to go back to?
348. And, also, you have already been to some of the communities here. When are you going to report to them if you had come up with some of the questions that you didn‟t let them know?
349. Thank you.
350. THE CHAIRMAN: Well, perhaps, Vicki, I could begin to answer the questions so far, and I‟ll try to be brief, not to take time away from the people who want to also say things.
351. So I‟d like to start briefly to acknowledge and agree with what Nellie said about acknowledgement with the institutions that the land claims have created and the necessity for all of us to never forget that they exist.
352. And I would like to say at the NEB that we are independent. I would also like to say because a distributor interdependent, and given the amount of knowledge, the amount of goodwill, and the amount of desire to work together that exists in your institution to work so hard to get to the (sound difficulties) process in order to repeat something we always say, that we are committed to work in partnership with all of the land claim organizations that have responsibilities for the land and the water (sound difficulties). It is useful to remind ourselves of that.
353. In fact, interestingly also, Nellie, during the round of some communities that people were asking us about their land claims. We have the privilege of someone like Doug Esagok here from the agency to begin to answer questions from the people and be part of the ongoing learning about the people‟s rights and what
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they‟re entitled to as a result of the land claims process.
354. So I just wanted to wish the public (sound difficulties) solutions that the land claims created because that‟s the way to go.
355. We know quite a bit about the technicalities of offshore drilling. We know a whole lot more than we ever knew about the communities, how they think, how they view the world, and we want to benefit from that knowledge, and that‟s very important.
356. I‟d like to comment briefly on Merven‟s questions about the experience we have and resources we have.
357. Merven, we feel we have, to date, the right amount of resources. Much of what we do is pipeline regulation and, as you‟ve said, there‟s not much has been going on into drilling but we do have people at the Board whose task is to remain current and provide the support for the drilling that‟s taking place in the Territories, including onshore drilling.
358. There‟s quite a bit in common between onshore and offshore and the fact that we don‟t have any application doesn‟t mean that we‟re stopping the learning process, and this roundtable is proof of that.
359. We also have a lot of relationships with the members. It‟s called the IRF, the International Regulators Forum. Essentially, all the regulators around the planet who have responsibilities for offshore drilling: Norway, Greenland, United States and Canada and the U.K. They meet and talk all the time about the latest knowledge that comes from drilling and incidents.
360. We also have an MOU with the Greenland regulator, so we have an MOU, a Memorandum of Understanding, that allows us to learn from each other. We have observers on the platform; so we‟re on the site. While we don‟t regulate right now, we‟re -- we have the privilege of observing how Greenland companies and the regulators take care of the business.
361. We have an ongoing relationship with Canada‟s two offshore boards from Newfoundland, Labrador and Nova Scotia, offshore drilling boards. And what we do in offshore drilling, we are guided by the same basic methodology of reliance on management systems and equality and all the principles of auditing for safety, culture and the like that we apply, and so we are -- we are top of the philosophy of regulation
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for pipelines and you can expect us to copy and paste that in future applications for offshore drilling.
362. So it may not be a complete answer, but our experience is that when you need additional resources as time goes by and the Federal Parliament acts as part of the budget process to find resources we still may need to be responding to Canadian concerns about safety and protecting the environment and all the aspects that are relevant to sustainability.
363. Lawrence asked the question about other Canadians. Yes, other Canadians are very much part and parcel of that. One of the reasons is the fact that we need to learn from other Canadians, like the Offshore Boards as a good example. And we keep saying that everything is connected, so a drilling accident in the Beaufort Sea can have an impact elsewhere.
364. And people are entitled to have their views on what is safe and environmentally sound drilling and whether or not it should be approved well by well. So we assume as a start, Lawrence, that every Canadian has a right to be interested in that, and we want to hear them and we also want to benefit from their knowledge from coast to coast to coast. And again, today is a manifestation of that.
365. Eddie had good questions about -- well, a good comment about membership on the Board so, hopefully, someone from the Government of Canada will take care of that or listen to that when the time comes for appointments.
366. You ask about other bodies such as DFO, Ministry of Transport, Environment Canada, the Coast Guard. The Board is clearly the lead agency for offshore drilling, especially when it comes to emergency response. So it is our obligation to make sure that before applications are considered and approved and drilling begins, if it were approved by the Board, that this co-ordination happens. And we‟ve seen outstanding collaboration from the beginning when we do, you know, exercises.
367. Sometimes it‟s table talk; sometimes it‟s underground emergency spill response. We practice the skills and we learn to co-ordinate so that, if and when it happened, we don‟t have to look for how it‟s going to work, how it‟s going to work has been established and we are committed to make -- to make emergency response in particular something which is highly co-ordinated with the NEB being required in law and in practice and our good conscience to be the lead agency for that.
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368. No, and we will not be waiting for an accident, Eddie. And, yes, the IFA has some very specific provisions, and that‟s part of Nellie‟s comment earlier. We are totally committed to make this whole set of requirements work together in harmony for the good of the people.
369. And drilling fluid dumped, you‟re saying, Eddie, that you‟ve heard or seen a situation like that in the past. We will not allow that, and spills will be cleaned up and the full force of our regulatory regime will be applied to situations of non- compliance.
370. And, Okalik, you asked us a good question about how do we go back to communities. It will -- it will be based on what their interest is. I‟ll say the answer comes from them first. In your case, as you know, we will have in addition to this work on offshore drilling, we have work upcoming because we have an application for seismic work off Baffin Island and we‟ve been there already. We will go back, Okalik, as necessary to listen to the people.
371. How we release the final report, we don‟t know yet. We‟ll first determine the content and then we‟ll determine how we -- we communicate. But the one thing we have done for the last 20 to 30 years will continue. We want to be out there to listen so that we understand, and this is a process that never ends.
372. So that‟s my general answer, and I‟m sure we‟ll have a more specific answer when the time comes to release the report. And thank you for your encouragement.
373. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Gaétan.
374. So, folks, if you can think about, you know, if there‟s anything that from your community perspective you would like to add to the mix, that would be great and what is the important thing that you need the NEB to hear in terms of the filing requirements with respect to offshore oil and gas.
375. But, Andrew, you had indicated you would like to share some thoughts with the roundtable.
376. MR. IQATUKJUAK: Thank you. My name is Andrew. I‟m from Clyde River -- Clyde River, Nunavut. I have been invited to come here, so I thank you very much for that. I will speak Inuktituk because that is my language and I will speak mostly Inuktituk. I just want you to know that beforehand.
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377. The work that -- that we are doing here is very -- will be very useful for the future and the -- but my question is: If there will be offshore drilling, are the National Energy Board the ones that -- that are the decision-makers?
378. It seems like the Arctic is a place where they just might do whatever they want and I want to make sure that that doesn‟t happen. Who are the people that are the decision-makers? Is it the government?
379. Or who do the proposals go to, to do some offshore drilling? This is what I wanted to understand and thank you.
380. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Andrew, for your question, and thank you for the trouble of visiting all the way from your community to here.
381. The answer is very clear as far as the federal process is concerned. There is a law that says the National Energy Board must decide on offshore drilling in offshore waters. Two exceptions only with respect of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador where there are joint offshore boards with the provinces.
382. For Nunavut, the Northwest Territories and the Yukon, if it‟s offshore, the National Energy Board is the decision-maker.
383. But that‟s not the complete answer. I must also add what Nellie asked us to remember, that you also have -- yourself in Nunavut, in particular, and the NWT -- land claims that create institutions that the NEB, while independent, is also interdependent with these institutions because we can put all the -- the minds and the hearts together to make decisions in the public interest together.
384. So that‟s my answer, Andrew, so if offshore drilling were to occur -- say, offshore Baffin Island, I‟ll use that as an example, Andrew -- that would happen if a company submitted an application to the National Energy Board, if they were able to meet our information requirements, if we found that the drilling can be done safely and protecting the environment, and if -- and all of that informed by the technical information provided by the company, but also affected and informed by the views of the communities who would be most directly affected by either good drilling, or affected if drilling resulted in accidents.
385. It is our job to look at all of that and if we are satisfied that the well should proceed we may authorize it and we may authorize any condition that we find is
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necessary to promote safety and protection of the environment and protection of the community.
386. We also have the legal authority to say no, we deny the application because it doesn‟t meet our requirements.
387. And we‟re independent, Andrew; we do not report to a government body or to a Minister. If someone doesn‟t like our decision the recourse is the Federal Court of Canada and they can try and have the decision overturned if we made an error in law or in a rule of law and some other flaws in that.
388. So as they say, the buck stops here but interdependently with the land claim institutions and with the knowledge and wisdom of the communities before we make a decision, and I hope it is responsive.
389. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Gaétan.
390. I just want to let folks know there is a large number of people leaving. My eyes maybe are not as good as they once were; so if I‟m not catching, and if Andy and Jim don‟t see, just raise your hand and don‟t hesitate, we‟ll get to you. So keep that in mind.
391. So Duane, please?
392. MR. SMITH: Yeah, thank you. I think Gaétan and David know that I wear a lot of hats from local to international but I guess the most important thing to state is that I‟m Inuvialuit and I do reside up here and I do use the marine resources. It‟s a part of my culture and my heritage.
393. But first I want to thank you, I guess, for the opportunity to take part in this. I think this is a very proactive approach that you‟re taking in regards to trying to address this issue prior to having anything negative occur.
394. I do note that in a lot of your initial comments by your staff and yourselves that you‟re stating “Northerners” and let‟s be really clear here that if there‟s anything to be taking place in the Arctic I guess it‟s going to affect the Inuit and Inuvialuit first and foremost. I‟ll try to elaborate on that later in my presentation so that people can understand just how much our relationship is to the coast.
395. I am hoping that you‟ve also documented our culture. I mean you‟ve
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heard -- you‟ve heard from a number of communities and people in regards to their livelihoods, et cetera, their relationships but it needs to be recognized and recorded that it is a part of our -- significant part of our culture here that may be affected.
396. I do note in Pam‟s comments that there‟s something about the lack of infrastructure but she didn‟t really mention it and I hope that this will be a part of the discussion as well throughout the week, that you recognize the lack of adequate infrastructure to respond in a timely manner. When I say timely I don‟t mean in a week or two weeks or however long but immediately.
397. Wherever the infrastructure to react is, if it‟s in Sarnia, Scotland, or Norway that‟s just not quick enough for us and it needs to be strategically located throughout the Arctic if there‟s going to be that type of activity taking place.
398. And that includes, I guess, adequate equipment to do the job properly because the first responders are going to be the people in the communities if and when some of the oil -- if there is such an oil spill in the Arctic, to start cleaning up their shoreline, where to contain, et cetera.
399. I would also state, I guess, that this is the one opportunity and that‟s why I‟m grateful that you‟re taking this proactive approach to review your Arctic regulations. It‟s the one opportunity that we have to -- for Canada, at the very least, to set the highest standards that we can to demonstrate to the world that we‟re not just walking we‟re talking in regards to this part of the Arctic being Canada‟s but we‟re also demonstrating by setting the highest standards that we can in regards to regulations, how we want to see this activity take place.
400. The people in the Arctic are not against development, we want to see it done right, we want to benefit from it but we also want to ensure that our culture and our livelihoods, you know, are enhanced as well.
401. So, you know, when I say set the bar in the highest, you know, let‟s not just be a part of the crowd that‟s in this rush -- supposed rush to develop the resources in the Arctic. I don‟t understand what the rush is. If we know it‟s there then let‟s just take our time to do it right, as you have come and met with the communities and have stated that.
402. So I‟m hoping that, you know, we recognize the resources are here, we know what‟s already found and in reserve and that‟s going to be developed at some point in the future so we might as well look at that as well and say we need to make
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sure that we have the highest standards that we can possibly apply. You know, set the example to the rest of the world.
403. And I look to Norway a lot because of their experience and their technical expertise and how they‟ve gone about their business but they‟ve recently had a spill as well, nothing is perfect but, you know, their reaction time, things like that, we can learn from those.
404. I thank you, and I look forward to the discussions throughout the week.
405. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Duane.
406. Any other messages, folks, from the communities that -- yes?
407. Is it Vincent? Yes.
408. MR. TEDDY: Good morning. Akanna, hello.
409. Welcome to our region, Gaétan, our homeland. Thank you to the Inuvialuit people of Inuvik, quyanainni, thank you, and also thank you to the Town of Inuvik and the people of Inuvik for hosting this important conference.
410. I look forward to the next few days, as my colleague Duane has said, to listen and to participate in this important Roundtable concerning offshore drilling in the Arctic Ocean.
411. My name is Vince Teddy. I‟m the Chairperson of the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation. I am an Inuvialuk and I am from Tuktoyaktuk.
412. Inuvialuit have lived in our homeland known as the ISR for many generations. I‟ll give you two short and separate passages here. The first passage says:
“Archaeological excavation was undertaken at the Tiktalik site, located near Pearce Point on the southern coast of Amundsen Gulf. The site is named for a Sachs Harbour elder, Susie Tiktalik, now deceased. Artifacts recovered from Tiktalik suggest an early occupation date, perhaps in or near the 12th century A.D.” (As read)
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413. The next passage reads:
“The Cache Point site, located on the East Channel of the Mackenzie River is the earliest lnuvialuit beluga whale-hunting site known from the region. An unexpected surprise was the presence of several earlier Palaeo-Eskimo stone tools, which closely match similar Alaskan tools, perhaps as much as 4,000 years old.” (As read)
414. These two passages are from an archaeological report in written in 1998 and was put on the record found on the website of the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre located in Yellowknife. These are testaments Inuvialuit have existed and continue to exist in our homeland.
415. Today, Inuvialuit continue our traditional way of life and an organized society in spite of many impacts to our land, our resources, and people.
416. Inuvialuit respects and abides by the laws of Canada. An important expression of this respect and relationship with Canada is found in an agreement.
417. This agreement between Inuvialuit and Canada helps us to manage our homeland, resources, environment, aspects of economic development and business, amongst other matters. This agreement is known as the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, agreed by the Government of Canada and the Inuvialuit.
418. This agreement was given Royal Assent by Canada and, as Nellie said, given a place of protection and recognition in the Constitution of Canada under Section 35. The Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation is a vital part of this agreement.
419. The Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation‟s primary mandate and objective is to promote, preserve, and enable the traditions, culture, and society of the Inuvialuit in our community and traditional lands in and around Tuktoyaktuk.
420. The National Energy Board is holding roundtable discussions concerning offshore drilling in northern Canada‟s Arctic Ocean. This ocean is within our traditional region. The Arctic Ocean is vital and integral for Inuvialuit.
421. The ocean feeds us, the ocean is our road, it‟s our path. The ocean has a life of its own. The ocean expresses itself differently in different times of the season.
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The Inuvialuit way of life, traditions, and culture is dependent on the Arctic Ocean.
422. The Inuvialuit would like to continue our way of life, traditions, and culture. Canada would like to gain access to the petroleum resources located in the same Arctic Ocean to continue a certain lifestyle.
423. Can both interests and way of life be met without harming the other‟s interest? Inuvialuit would like to be frank with this and have an open discussion to see if it is possible not to harm the Arctic Ocean by offshore drilling.
424. This roundtable sponsored by the National Energy Board is an important milestone to begin these frank and open discussions to see if it is possible.
425. I will now briefly outline the issues concerning offshore drilling in the Arctic Ocean as expressed by the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation.
426. The same thing that happened in the Gulf of Mexico and the response by the Proponents may happen without proper and sufficient laws, without proper regulations, without proper policing, and without proper resources. If these not are put it -- not are put in place by Canada, that may become a reality that happened in the Gulf of Mexico.
427. There is no trust in the present blow-out prevention technology and the lack of proper BOP equipment created and operated by the petroleum industry as witnessed in the Gulf of Mexico. The lack of a relief well and the lack of contingency planning for a relief well as witnessed in the Gulf of Mexico is also a concern.
428. The lack of adequate oil spill clean-up infrastructure and equipment in Canada‟s Arctic region to deal with an oil spill, especially in the winter season and especially when there is ice present on site, is also a concern.
429. The concern of inadequate compensation or lack of proper compensation to Inuvialuit is a concern if this is not addressed when there is a major oil spill in the Arctic Ocean.
430. If the petroleum industry can guarantee all of the above issues and concerns can be properly addressed to the satisfaction of the Inuvialuit and whenever or if there is any approval for drilling exploration or production of petroleum in the Arctic Ocean, it‟s very important that proper and adequate infrastructure in the region
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-- and especially in the offshore locations -- are available to supply and sustain the oil and gas activity for offshore drilling.
431. In terms of employment and training, this is another important condition if there is approval for Arctic offshore drilling.
432. And, importantly, as Nellie said earlier, the provisions of the IFA will have to be respected and followed in terms of access, environment, wildlife, and business activities. These issues and concerns are from our community and need to be, as I said earlier, discussed frankly and openly by all interested parties, especially the regulators, the petroleum industry, and we as Inuvialuit. Let‟s be open about it. Let‟s deal with these issues and concerns.
433. So we‟re here. Let‟s see if the interest of the Inuvialuit of Tuk can be properly accounted for by this roundtable. Quyanainni, thank you, on behalf of the Inuvialuit from Tuk.
434. MS. MCCULLOCH: Thank you , Vince, and I guess one more. We‟ll work at the back of the room, then. Sorry, I can‟t see your name.
435. MR. NOKSANA: John -- I‟m John Noksana from Tuktoyaktuk. I‟m here on behalf of the Game Council. Good afternoon all.
436. Gaétan stated earlier that there would be no dumping of drilling fluids in the Beaufort Sea.
437. In saying that, would the waste and the drill mud -- the waste as in everyday waste, garbage, whatever it may be -- would that be hauled out of the settlement region after and during the project?
438. Our landfills still have a lot of waste from the last oil boom that‟s still sitting in our landfill, and we‟re -- we‟re actually looking for a new home for our landfill, so if – so if you could answer that, that would be great. Thank you.
439. THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, John. What I can say is that, when a company applies for a well, they need to persuade us that their waste disposal methodology and their practices is acceptable, and I don‟t have for you this morning a -- a permanent answer to your question.
440. It‟s a relevant question. It‟s a question that will come with an application
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before us, and then we‟re going to hear from the people as to what‟s possible and what‟s not in their mind, and then the disposal of the drilling fluids is a question that the Board will need to decide once we have a specific application for a specific location and specific movement of the thing.
441. So I cannot give you a -- a final answer today. I can commit to you that this is something we will look at when we have an application, and I take your question as an input to the information requirements. When we do get an application, please address the question of disposal of drilling fluids.
442. So I leave you perhaps on your appetite on the answer, but this is what we‟re here for today.
443. Maybe our staff have something more substantive to add to that. I don‟t know. Would someone like to make a comment on that?
444. My staff tells me -- our staff tells me I gave you a right answer, so we‟ll stop at that.
445. MS. MCCULLOCH: Yes, Mr. Lawrence Ruben.
446. MR. RUBEN: Hi again. I also wear a pile of hats that I – that I use at time. I‟m from the community of Paulatuk on the -- on the east coast, not very far from here, but I‟m also a member of the hunters and trappers. And I would be remiss if I didn‟t mention this as they asked me to bring forward some questions to you, the National Energy Board.
447. First off is, there was a couple of comments on infrastructure. Their question was: In such small communities, who would provide for help in terms of funding for small boats -- or actually not small boats, but boats large enough that can actually handle booms?
448. Their question is not -- because in small communities, if you didn‟t notice that, there are no large ocean-going craft that -- that can handle booms in case of oil spills or to assist in rescue -- search and rescue and other such thing, and their question was: Who -- who would we go towards or who would we look at in terms of helping us small communities fund for such large items?
449. THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Lawrence. I‟ll give you an answer that is a bit like the one I gave to John, but it is giving me a chance here to -- to say
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something that I really look forward to hearing from people in this room about.
450. The kinds of questions you‟re asking, Lawrence, are kind of very directly related to the questions we‟ve asked ourselves in our two calls for information.
451. I don‟t know if you‟ve had a chance to look at the calls for information and the questions we‟ve been asking all along but here is the point I wanted to make very clear: When we look at these kinds of questions, as the National Energy Board, the first thing we look at is: What is the company proposing?
452. We look at the companies first. What is your plan to have safety for the workers and safety for the communities? What is your plan for environmental protection?
453. And as Duane said, even countries like Norway have a -- like Canada -- a very modern regulatory regime, but no safety regulator can promise to anybody that an accident will never happen. If someone tells you that, you must not believe them. Nobody can promise an accident will never happen.
454. So the job of a regulator, and as part of your question like booms and infrastructure, is to be ready not only for safe drilling, but be ready every day, starting at the time of approval of an application if we approved it with the belief that if something goes wrong, when something goes wrong, there will be an effective response.
455. So we will be looking for companies to inform us when they apply for a permit to drill, how are they going to go about the infrastructure that they need to drill safely, and the infrastructure they will need when things go wrong to respond effectively so that any impact on the environment and communities is acceptable from a public interest standpoint.
456. So today we cannot tell you how these things will work because the NEB is not the one promoting the drilling. We are the watchdog verifying the drilling can be done well, and these kinds of questions must be answered by companies who apply in response to our filing requirements.
457. And I will be very interested to hear from people in the room, including industry, the many questions we have asked in the CFIs, in the calls for the information.
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458. If anybody in the room feels that these questions are not relevant when we get an application, I think it would be a good week to talk about that because we asked those questions believing that they were germane, that they were relevant to our future determination.
459. So they are kind of a draft information requirement, not in disguise, but put in the form of calls for information for the roundtable. But I think they‟re a good approximation of some of the key elements in the information requirements, so I would -- I will encourage everybody to tell us if you found that 1 or 2 or 15 questions in those calls for information were not relevant, or some of you might feel they‟re not going far enough, those are two things that I‟d really, really like to hear about -- that the Members of this board would really like to hear about this week.
460. So, Lawrence, it was a long-winded way to get to your question. This is stuff we‟re going to need to see in applications, and we will need to accept that these things are acceptable to us in terms of safety, environmental, and community outcomes.
461. And that‟s the best I can do and I will check with staff. Staff tells me that I didn‟t do a bad job again on that kind of thing.
462. MS. McCULLOCH: Just in keeping in mind the time and people‟s tummies and the comment that we heard --we heard this morning also as well that, you know, we need the time for the conversation to unfold, we‟re not going to stop this discussion at the roundtable now. If folks have more questions or comments that they want to raise now, we‟re going to continue those after lunch.
463. I know Billy, Archie, you would like to speak, and certainly if you want to do that now we welcome you to do so, but just so other folks in the audience know, if you did want to add to this particular part of the roundtable, we will continue that conversation after lunch as well. And we‟ve also got some presentations lined up, but don‟t feel pressured that you have to get it in before we break for lunch as we will do that.<
464. But, Billy, please?
465. MR. ARCHIE: Thank you. Billy Archie, Aklavik Hunters and Trappers Committee.
466. Maybe just to back up a bit, back in the boom of the „70s and „80s, we did
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have infrastructure in place. I was an oil spill technician with part of the Beaufort Sea Oil Spill Co-op. There‟s still a few of us around that have that experience, so, you know, this whole thing of re-inventing the wheel. But a couple things.
467. I mean, you look at -- I keep looking back to incidents that happened during those times. I was on the Mollak Pack (ph) with Beaudrill when we had the multi-year ice pushing the structure up, and during that time, Beaudrill was bragging about the test results of that. It‟s the biggest well and it‟s probably better than Hibernia, so that‟s near shore.
468. And the other one, I‟m sure Imperial Oil with their artificial islands getting washed and their rig falling over.
469. So historically things were happening back then, but when you look at baseline scientific information and science today and their ability to help -- I kept asking a couple times on when the beluga whales and bowheads are migrating back our way in the spring through the leads, that‟s the riskiest part, and I don‟t think I got an answer back from anyone on that.
470. But when -- when you look at impacts on communities, and we‟re still dealing with impacts of residential schools, boom and bust with the oil and gas and the empty fur trapping, that one time our people were pretty well independent, healthy and wealthy, and when I heard that the World Wildlife Federation is coming into the region I said: “Oh, no, an environmental group dictating to what can happen to the economy and the region.”
471. And I spoke to a few people that -- we have to educate them because you look at the -- those of us that work with the land claims for the last little while, it‟s in place and there‟s some positive things going on.
472. I mean, recent numbers of porcupine caribou, where they thought they were declining, but they‟re healthy. And we just had a meeting not too long ago about grizzly bear populations on the North Slope, they‟re healthy, so we‟re giving an increase in quotas.
473. But when you look at these things and the challenges, I mean, at the end of the day, paying $1.79 a litre of gas to go out hunting and you look at the big picture of things -- and keep in mind, I mean, we do have a lot of experience here and I really don‟t like the idea of reinventing the wheel. We do have experienced people in the area, both with what happened in the „70s and „80s and -- and the challenges of today.
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474. So I just want to make a few comments -- comments on that because a few people are still hurting from the impacts of Greenpeace and, you know, way of life that -- you know, when we were growing up in that, it‟s like, right on, we‟ve got a stable economy and everything else, but now it‟s just nothing happening.
475. So anyhow, just a few comments there.
476. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Billy.
477. What I would like to say is we‟ve got some really good feedback in terms of recommendations, very specific for the Board in terms of the types of things they need to include in their report and in their filing requirements.
478. As I mentioned, we‟re not going to close off this roundtable portion of the discussion. We will come back after lunch and check in with folks. If there are still things you would like to add before we move into the presentations by Nellie and Frank and Duane and John, that‟s great. But what I would ask is if -- just to keep -- we‟ve got a busy day, as you know. If you could come back as close to 1:30 as possible, we will get things underway right around 1:30, and look forward to seeing you then.
479. So thanks very much, everybody, and we will continue the conversation after lunch.
--- Upon recessing at 12:11 p.m./La session est suspendue à 12h11 --- Upon resuming at 1:35 p.m./La session est reprise à 13h35
480. MS. McCULLOCH: … from their communities or regions, supplementary to some of those meetings that the NEB held across the North over the last few months and so certainly the conversation got quite involved and folks were very enthusiastic.
481. So I did say of course that when we came back from lunch we‟d certainly provide an opportunity for people, if you feel you‟d like to add some more to that initial conversation or provide some comments or questions. Either, you know, questions that you would like to see answered sort of now by somebody at the Roundtable, whether it‟s a question that you want to raise for -- to be considered over the next few days at the Roundtable or if your question is really more of a higher level question.
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482. It could be a detailed question as well but a question that you think the NEB needs to take into account when it‟s formulating its report and more specifically its finding requirements. Please feel free to raise those both now and throughout the whole meeting.
483. So with that, welcome back from lunch everyone. My name is Vicki McCulloch, if I didn‟t -- if you didn‟t meet me earlier this morning.
484. So basically we‟re just continuing on the first Roundtable discussion from this morning., so we‟re in Agenda Item Number 2.2. We heard back from the NEB about what they‟ve heard in the communities. We had a number of folks sharing their thoughts and ideas as well.
485. So I would like to just provide that opportunity, if you haven‟t yet had your chance to make your remarks or if you have something you would like to add to what you‟ve already said, please feel free to do so.
486. So anybody feel that they would like to add some final concluding thoughts to that first Roundtable session?
487. Yes, at the back? Charles Pokiak, please.
488. MR. POKIAK: Hi, my name is Charles Pokiak and I come from Otoño via Tuktoyaktuk, in other words Tuktoyaktuk and I‟m representing the Tuk Hunters and Trappers. I‟ve been on the board for a few years now and before I got onboard I did -- I had traditional knowledge with Elders in our community and they also did some here in Inuvik and Aklavik.
489. And one thing that really touched me was the Elder‟s point of view of what they‟re going to do with the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline. There was a lot of questions, they give a lot of answers and one thing about it they want that jobs for their grandchildren, they want good jobs and also to be safe out there. Like, we use -- they said we use the land 24/7 and four cycles in a year for their food, and they want to see that continue.
490. Like, most of our Elders now are gone, ever since the interviews, so we‟re their voice and one thing they wanted to see is they want to be driving the bus now, they don‟t want to be the back of the bus.
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491. We have good leaders here, they said, that‟s up in boards, like -- you got a hamlet, TCC, hunters and trappers and we‟re their voice for them and that‟s all we wanted to point out, is we use this land all year round and just to manage it in a safe way as possible, like their ancestors did over hundreds, hundreds of years.
492. Thank you.
493. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Charles.
494. Any other remarks from folks?
495. One thing I just wanted to also remind folks, if you‟re a little shy or something you want to just share maybe more privately, we do have a comment wall over there so please feel free to write your comments, general or specific. It‟s over at the back of the room there by Mr. Chambers and Mr. Micak, but please feel free to use that as well.
496. Any other last remarks that folks -- yes, John Stuart?
497. MR. STUART: This question is, well, more for Gaétan. If the NEB does say yes to the drilling program, will there be a relief well within a close range or even right there on the spot?
498. We all know what happened in the Gulf, they didn‟t have a relief well and their conditions are way, way better than ours. We‟re cold water; we have ice. And if it is a yes I‟d like that recommendation in there because the land and the water is our livelihood and if you take all that away from us that‟s not a good thing. So I‟d like that to be a top recommendation, a relief well right away.
499. Thank you.
500. MS. McCULLOCH: Certainly there‟s a major agenda item addressing those sorts of things but, Gaétan, did you want to ---
501. THE CHAIRMAN: I certainly want to acknowledge John‟s recommendation and we‟ll accept it as a recommendation.
502. We have as a policy the Same Season Relief Well capacity as a policy and for those who look for the exact language of a policy, John, if you look at our Calls for Information, Question 1.6.1 in the context section, before we ask the question we
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define what is the current Board policy.
503. The current policy is what you say you‟d like to have as a recommendation. Others have different points of view. We‟re going to hear these views this week and you can talk more about it and others will say something else, you can come back and Andy is wanting to talk about a wrap-up, so this week is about talking about that, John. So you started the discussion, it‟s a good thing.
504. Thank you.
505. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
506. The gentleman at the back and I know we‟ve got another person over to the left but ---
507. MR. NASOGALUAK: Hi there, thanks for ---
508. MS. McCULLOCH: If folks could say their names, that‟d be good.
509. MR. NASOGALUAK: --- accepting our comments.
510. Darrel Nasogaluak, Hamlet of Tuk and HTC member.
511. I‟d just like to expand on what the Chair of Tuk Community Corp., Vince, had to say. We‟ve been here for over a thousand years. We‟ve seen boom and bust. The very first one -- oil boom we had was about 120 years ago and when it went bust pretty much all the big whales were gone and it changed -- it changed what we did in the past.
512. There was a lot of us that, like the Inupiat, harvested beluga -- or correction, bowhead and after the first oil boom and bust there weren‟t enough bowhead and also the people were decimated by diseases and a number of Inuvialuit went from -- an estimated number from about 25 to 4,000 of us down to just a few hundred. So that was our first boom and bust.
513. And again, probably before my time, exploration started in the fifties/sixties and went until the eighties and then it kind of busted again. I‟d just like to stress how important the decisions made here and how well you hear us is.
514. When you look at Inuvialuit timeline, we were here for a thousand years
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when exploration happens here and even the development of the oilfields and the oil is extracted and long after, we‟re still going to be here, we‟ll still going to need our natural resources.
515. Just understand that the exploration and development, it‟s going to be a short period of time when you look at it in our eyes. We‟re going to be here a long time after all the oil is extracted.
516. Thank you.
517. MS. McCULLOCH: Yes, the lady at the back row, please.
518. MS. KLANGENBERG: My name is Elsie Klangenberg.
519. I would like to say something even if it‟s small, short.
520. INTERPRETER: I can‟t hear her.
521. MS. KLANGENBERG: Our country, our Beaufort Sea, our community have a lot of ice then what would it do if there should be an oil spill and how are our animals and our mammals, our only food in the sea ice, in the sea waters, such as seal, have their holes in the sea ice.
522. How is that going to be affected if there should be an oil spill? And you should think of that as well because that‟s our livelihood.
523. And the animals, during -- through the winter when it‟s iced over in the Beaufort Sea they are under the ice that are feeding and in the springtime how the big icebergs have travelled from the North because of the strong currents, even though there is no strong winds, still the strong current brings out the big old icebergs from the far North that travels through Iceland and Victoria Island.
524. And we also have heard from our Elders, our previous -- our ancestors how the water current is getting stronger every year and we can see because we live with it. And when the ice -- the water, when it gets very strong winds -- if we get a very strong wind such as east wind to a hundred and some kilometres then, you know, how are we going to -- our animals are going to be affected.
525. And also if they drill in a certain area and move and there should be an oil spill then all these animals -- sea mammals are going to be affected.
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526. I‟d just like to bring that up. Thank you.
527. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you very much.
528. Andrew, I think you had indicated you would like to speak to us again.
529. MR. IQALUKJUAK: Thank you. My name is Andrew.
530. In regards to offshore drilling I don‟t want -- I‟m not here to say we shouldn‟t have offshore drilling but these animals and the land will not speak for itself, we are the voices.
531. This is our responsibility right now. Our livelihood depends on the resources of the land. So I cannot stress enough how much we have to keep things in a safe -- and climate change is also the factor of these animals, that they are -- we have heard that they are in danger; even though it is the slow process, they are affected by climate change.
532. I hope that we work together to make sure that the animals and the people are safe. We don‟t have anything to -- any infrastructure that will -- we will use to respond to any accidents we may have.
533. And that‟s all I wanted to say. Thank you.
534. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Andrew.
535. Any folks that would like to add some comments in terms of the perspective from either yourself individually or your community or region?
536. Yes, sorry just -- Robert Powell, please?
537. MR. POWELL: Thank you very much. I‟m Robert Powell; I‟m with WWF Canada.
538. I just wanted to say that, you know, we‟ve heard a great number of concerns but there is in fact one concern I think I can dispel quite handily right now and be done with, I hope.
539. The concern was expressed that WWF was anti-fur trade and that we were
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here to tell people what to do. Neither of those things is true and specifically, our emeritus ex-president, Monte Hummel, appeared in a video at the request of the people in Nunavut, highlighting the importance of seal harvest to their economy.
540. We have been involved constantly in this sort of thing and he actually received some 5,000 emails over a three-week period from people who are perhaps animal rights activists, as opposed to conservationists, complaining about our position.
541. But we are not and never have been anti-fur trade. So I‟d like to put that to bed if we possibly can. So now you know what we‟re not about and I hope later we‟ll be able to tell you what we are about.
542. Thank you.
543. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Robert.
544. Any other thoughts from folks in terms of your personal view or your community or region‟s perspectives, ideas you want to share with the National Energy Board? We do of course have the rest of the week so this is not your last chance by any means, just your first.
545. So I see a gentleman here. Joshua?
546. MR. OLIKTAOK: Thank you. I‟m Joshua Oliktaok from Ulukhaktok Community Corporation.
547. My question is on compensation. Our land and ecosystem, it‟s very fragile, as we know up here, it takes a long time to recover if there‟s ever an accident or a spill. Well, industry -- is industry prepared to compensate for the period of time it takes for the wildlife and the land to recover and who will be compensated?
548. Thank you.
549. MS. McCULLOCH: Our question from me to you, Joshua, is that a question you‟d like to address to anyone in particular or just a question that needs to be considered as we move forward this week, and by the Board in doing their filing requirements?
550. MR. OLIKTAOK: I‟m sure there‟s going to be more added to
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compensation so anybody can answer it, I guess.
551. MS. McCULLOCH: Okay.
552. MR. OLIKTAOK: Thanks.
553. MS. McCULLOCH: Anybody in the room want to take an initial response at that?
554. THE CHAIRMAN: One thing I will say, Joshua, is that we are the regulator for offshore drilling and we have some very specific responsibilities under the Act to require proof of financial responsibility in an amount and a form that we deem necessary in the public interest.
555. So it‟s one law case but I cannot give you an amount but the Board has the legal powers and the obligation to be satisfied itself as an independent body that financial responsibility is there to take care of future claims in respect of an accident.
556. And we have questions that we‟ve asked in the Calls for Information, we can talk more about that. And when an application is filed for a specific well, at a specific location this is something the Board must address; it must satisfy itself that there‟s enough money in the form of financial responsibility for the well to be authorized.
557. So it‟s just general answer, Joshua, but the specifics will come either later this week, if you have a more specific question, or much more than that in the case of an application before the National Energy Board.
558. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
559. Any other folks want to make some remarks?
560. Yes, the gentleman at the very back row there.
561. MR. RUBEN: Hi, this is Lawrence again. It seems like I‟m talking a bit too much but I feel I have to say this.
562. In terms of uniqueness and within our area, within the ISR, I‟m dealing with the government in terms of uniqueness in creating a marine-protected area within the politic area and there I‟ve asked the community to identify why and how
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our marine-protected area or our area of interest is unique to us.
563. So we had to identify all types of marine mammals, animals within that area as to why it is unique to us and we made a mention of our Arctic char and why it‟s unique to us. The government tells us -- told us it wasn‟t unique to us or to that area because char are all over the world. But we tried to explain to them char are unique to us -- I mean, to us within the ISR.
564. So hearing that from the government, I‟d like to hear from the National Energy Board and anyone else that can comment on it why or how you think our area and wildlife and mammals are unique to us.
565. MS. McCULLOCH: You brought a very broad question, a very large question. Is that something that‟s able to be responded to in a simple way or ---
566. THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
567. MS. McCULLOCH: Okay. Please do so, Gaétan.
568. THE CHAIRMAN: Lawrence, of course I cannot answer that to your satisfaction because it is a very important question that requires the minds of many people.
569. At the same time, I can say that when we look at applications in the future there has to be some form of answers to the basic questions of whether this project is consistent with a vision of sustainability for the region and, I think, as part and parcel of that.
570. And often without all the information that one wished to have the Board needs to address its mind to it. If it has enough information to decide, it decides, either approving or denying, and if it doesn‟t have enough information it asks for more information, and that‟s something that will happen case by case.
571. That‟s what I can say at this time, Vicki. I know it‟s not satisfying or satisfactory but that‟s the state of the situation for us.
572. MS. McCULLOCH: It‟s a short question but it requires a lot of answers, but we do also have a whole section that relates to the Arctic environment coming up in Section 3, so I think we can spend a lot of time, I think, elaborating on that.
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573. Anything else that folks would like to add as we wrap up this initial Roundtable? There certainly will be lots more opportunity for conversations.
574. Sorry, Duane, yes, sorry. I‟ve got the light shining in my eye.
575. MR. SMITH: Sorry for taking up the mic again, but I would think Frank, Nellie, or Okalik might be in a better position to answer this. There‟s two ways to approach the compensation issue, I guess, and Okalik again can correct me.
576. I‟m not as familiar with her land claim as I am with the Inuvialuit one, but you can either take the proactive approach where the land claim organization would sit down with industry and demonstrate to the federal government as a part of the requirement for the NEB to consider as well to -- they can establish a process to address compensation issues, or they can take the reactive approach under their respective land claims to deal with the matter if and when a spill were to occur and how that would be addressed, or again, they can take the arbitration process as well under their land claims.
577. MS. McCULLOCH: Did anybody wish to add to Duane‟s comment?
578. Yes, gentleman with the -- over in this area of the room.
579. MR. MORRISON: Thank you. I‟m Keith Morrison. I‟m Senior Advisor Minerals Oil and Gas for Nunavut Tunngavik.
580. Just to add onto that, under the Nunavut land claim there are two provisions for wildlife compensation. There is an arbitration process for wildlife compensation.
581. However, there‟s also -- the land claim also does recognize that compensation agreements can be part of Inuit impact and benefits agreements and negotiate ahead of time. So both -- at least in Nunavut that part is covered in the claim where both can be in place.
582. Saying that, just because something‟s negotiated ahead of time, if there is a problem that comes up it doesn‟t prevent people from then going to arbitration as required. That‟s one of the things the land claim does, at least on our side of the border, does take -- does look at industry, and there are specific provisions in the land claim regarding oil and gas specifically that have to be taken into account before things can go forward.
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583. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you very much.
584. Any other concluding remarks?
585. Yes, Norm.
586. MR. SNOW: Thank you. Norm Snow, Joint Secretariat here in Inuvik.
587. Just to build on what Duane was saying and the other gentleman here, we‟ve always -- as far as the Inuvialuit final agreement is concerned, we‟ve always assumed that that, of course, would be honoured by the regulator, the NEB in this case.
588. And there is a well-defined process within the IFA for screening and review, and if it goes to review then of course there‟s a requirement to determine the limits of liability based on worst-case scenario, taking other factors into account and so on. And so we assume that that would be routinely followed in the case of the ISR, that‟s for sure.
589. Thank you.
590. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you. Those additional clarifications by folks I think were very helpful.
591. Any other remarks that folks would like to make with respect to this first Roundtable discussion?
--- (No response/Aucune reponse)
592. MS. McCULLOCH: Then I would respectfully request that perhaps we wrap up this particular session to move into Agenda Item Number 2.3.
593. But before we do that, there‟s two things I just wanted to mention to you; one is that my understanding is that there is a blind auction being held. I don‟t know -- I have never heard of a blind auction. I‟ve heard of silent auctions before. Susan at the back can let you know on the break, if you are interested. There‟s some art, I understand, perhaps some masks that are being auctioned.
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594. So touch base with Susan at the back. Actually I can see them from here. So anyway at the break there is that option so please follow up on that.
595. And then I guess with that, I wanted to also do the second round of introductions that we started this morning. So what I‟m going to suggest is that we basically do -- we‟ll start at this table where Duane is and we‟ll go to the back and you guys will know which ones of you haven‟t been introduced or not.
596. The tables kind of blur together. They‟re not in discrete rows. But we‟ll basically do -- go back and then come back and back and we‟ll finish this half of the row and we‟ll do the others later on today.
597. So, Duane, if you could perhaps start us off. Just your name and organization will be great.
598. MR. SMITH: Which organization would ---
599. MS. McCULLOCH: You pick. You pick.
600. MR. SMITH: Well, you have me presenting under the Inuit Circumpolar Council but I‟m also the Vice-President for ITK. I‟m also the Vice-Chair for Nellie and I‟m the Chair for the local Community Corp as well. So amongst -- I‟m missing a few but ---
601. MS. McCULLOCH: We need you on the table I think.
602. MR. SMITH: Thank you.
603. MS. EDE: Good afternoon. Ella Ede with Statoil, which is the Norwegian Oil Company, but I am based in Anchorage, Alaska, and I‟m a Stakeholder Engagement Manager for Statoil in Alaska.
604. MR. ALM: Good afternoon. My name is Dagfinn Alm. I‟m also with Statoil. I‟m working out of Hockstein (phonetic), Norway, which is slightly more further north than this place, in fact. I am Project Manager for Exploration Drilling in the Barents Sea and I‟ve been so for the last 12 years.
605. Thank you.
606. MR. SPICER: Good afternoon. My name is Wylie Spicer. I‟m the
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counsel to ConocoPhillips. I‟ve heard lots of discussion about from sea to sea to sea. I come from one of the other seas. I live in Halifax.
607. MR. SYKES: Good afternoon. My name is Gary Sykes. I‟m with ConocoPhillips in Calgary.
608. MR. SIMON: And hello. I‟m Gerry Simon. I‟m also with ConocoPhillips in Calgary.
609. MR. DENNESS: Ian Denness; ConocoPhillips, Calgary.
610. MR. SHAFER: Randall Shafer; ConocoPhillips.
611. MS. GRAF: And Linda Graf with ConocoPhillips.
612. MS. M. KUDLAK: Good afternoon. Mary Kudlak, Ulukhaktok.
613. MS. KANAYOK: Hi. Lillian Kanayok; resource person for the Ulukhaktok Inuit Hunters and Travellers Committee.
614. MS. K. KUDLAK: I am Kendra Kudlak from Ulukhatok Council.
615. MR. ULLAH: Hi. I‟m Zaka Ullah and I‟m in Government of Northwest Territories.
616. MS. ARCHIBALD: Hi. My name is Deborah Archibald. I‟m with the Government of the Northwest Territories in Yellowknife.
617. MS. TAPSELL: My name is Mary Tapsell. I‟m with Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories in Yellowknife.
618. MS. MUNROE: My name is Sunny Munroe. I‟m with EBA Engineering.
619. MR. FABIJAN: Michael Fabijan with Kavik-AXYS Environmental Consulting Firm based in Inuvik.
620. MS. DAGG: Hello. Jennifer Dagg from the Pembina Institute in Yellowknife.
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621. MS. SEMMLER: Good afternoon. I‟m Marty Semmler. I‟m with the Gwinch‟in Tribal Council out of Inuvik here.
622. MS. INGLANJASUK: I‟m Christine Inglanjasuk. I‟m with the Environmental Impact Screening Committee.
623. MS. BRANIGAN: I‟m Marsha Branigan with the Environment and Natural Resources in Inuvik.
624. MS. LENNIE: Bev Lennie, Inuvik Community Corporation.
625. MS. SHUTTLEWORTH: I‟m Nan Shuttleworth with the Salamander Foundation in Toronto.
626. MR. BURKHART: I‟m Dave Burkhart with the World Wildlife Fund, WWF Canada.
627. MR. POWELL: Rob Powell with WWF.
628. MR. AMOS: Hi, I‟m Will Amos; I‟m counsel to WWF, I work with Ecojustice Canada, we‟re Canada‟s largest public interest environmental law organization.
629. MR. SLAVIC: I‟m Dan Slavic with the new WWF office in Inuvik.
630. MS. GORDON-RUBEN: I‟m Debbie Gordon-Ruben; SAO with the Hamlet of Paulatuk.
631. MS. SMITH: And Wendy Smith from Imperial Oil in Inuvik.
632. MR. ALLAN: I‟m Rod Allan with Transocean in Houston.
633. MR. ROLHEISER: I‟m Pius Rolheiser with Imperial Oil in Calgary.
634. MR. SNOWSHOE: My name is Charlie Snowshoe and I sit on the Gwich‟in Land of planning and Gwich‟in Land and Water Board.
635. MR. FUNT: Christopher Funt; I‟m outside counsel to the Government of the Northwest Territories.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
636. MR. GORDON: Wayne Gordon; Chair of the Inuvialuit Development Corporation.
637. MR. ROY: Gerry Roy; Inuvialuit Regional Corporation.
638. MS. McCULLOCH: Anybody over in that corner that we‟ve missed? We‟re kind of mixing it up just to keep everybody on their toes.
639. Got one or two so we‟ll just -- go ahead, please, ma‟am.
640. MS. BLAKE: Grace Blake with the Mackenzie Gas Project.
641. MS. McCULLOCH: I think we‟ll start back up at the front here, so maybe with Colin. Oh sorry, I guess we‟re missing somebody at the back there.
642. MR. BIRCHALL: Hello, I‟m Chuck Birchall from the Canadian Arctic Resources Committee.
643. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
644. MR. NELSON: I‟m Colin Nelson with Transocean in Houston.
645. MR. WHELLHOUSE: I‟m James Whellhouse with the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation.
646. MS. COURNOYEA: Nellie Cournoyea, Chair and CEO Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and just a side issue, I‟m on many other boards but just because there‟s so many Arctic members here I‟m also the Vice-Chair of the New Nutrition North Program, so if anyone has any complaints about the high cost of food please let me know.
--- (Laughter/ Rires)
647. MR. PETERS: Hi, I‟m Mike Peters. I‟m the manager of Federal Regulatory and Northern Affairs with the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers or CAPP, out of Calgary.
648. MR. HOOS: Rick Hoos, principal consultant, EVA Engineering and also our Kiggiak-EBA Joint Venture here in the Inuvialuit Settlement Region.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
649. MR. WOODS: Brian Woods, and I publish Canadian Energy Report.
650. MS. ROGERS: My name is Doris Rogers; I‟m originally from Inuvik but I live in Aklavik. I‟m a youth representative for the Aklavik Hunters and Trappers Committee.
651. MR. AREY: Joe; Aklavik Hunters and Trappers.
652. MR. MALEGANAC: Wilson Maleganac, Hunters and Trappers.
653. MS. McCULLOCH: All right, you guys in the next row, please.
654. MR. GORDON: Danny Gordon from Aklavik, I‟m with WMAC, North Slope.
655. MR. POKIAK: Ernest Pokiak, with WF and I‟m from Tuktoyaktuk.
656. MR. STAPLES: My name is Lindsay Staples; I‟m here as Chairman of the Wildlife Management Advisory Council, North Slope.
657. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you. And the folks in that back row there, please.
658. MR. SHIRLEY: Gordon Shirley; Inuvialuit Dene Council among other things.
659. MR. NOKSANA: John Noksana; Tuktoyaktuk Game Council.
660. MR. FELIX: Stanley Felix; Tuktoyaktuk.
661. MR. STORR: Hi, I‟m Billy Storr. It‟s always good to be in Inuvik in our subdivision. I‟m the Mayor of Aklavik and also a member of the Porcupine Caribou Management Board and I‟m also the Vice-Chair for -- what I‟m here representing is the Inuvialuit Game Council, I‟m the Vice-Chair on that.
662. Thank you.
663. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you very much.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Cournoyea
664. So have we got everybody over on this side, we didn‟t miss anybody so far? So thank you very much, we‟ll continue on just before the break with this quarter and then we‟ll finish off with the last part of the room.
665. So with that I would like to turn our attention to the next Agenda Item which is 2.3. So we‟re going to hear some information from non-industry participants. In this first section we‟ve got four presentations.
666. The first will be Nellie Cournoyea from the IRC, then Frank Pokiak with the Inuvialuit Game Council; they‟ll be speaking. As I mentioned, Sam Omik, his presentation is moved to tomorrow afternoon. And then John Amagoalik with Qikiqtani Inuit Association will be speaking followed by Duane Smith, and then we move into some other presentations after the break.
667. But I guess with that I would like to turn things over to Nellie and I‟m not going to give her a long introduction. I think probably everybody in the room knows her, and as she mentions, she‟s been involved in so many things for quite a length of time but she is the Chair of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and the Chief Executive Officer.
668. She‟s got lots of accreditation to her name. She‟s an Officer of the Order of Canada. She was previously the Premier of the Northwest Territories. She was a Cabinet Minister; just many, many things she done for -- on behalf of the folks of not just the ISR but the NWT and across the North.
669. So with that I would just like to turn it over to Nellie to make some remarks to the Roundtable, please.
670. MS. COURNOYEA: Thank you very much.
671. Just to satisfy Billy Storr, yeah, we‟re the annex of Aklavik but I can still skin muskrats.
672. You know, it‟s very important to acknowledge the number of people who are presently attending this meeting; the wide scope of scientific, technical, traditional knowledge, and certainly the main players in this very complex and difficult issue that we‟re dealing with.
673. On behalf of the Inuvialuit I don‟t have a long presentation to make because I think a few things can be said that will take into -- encompass a lot of the
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Cournoyea
other things that will be expanded on by other representatives.
674. The Inuvialuit need a level of comfort that we do not currently have in the three main areas of environmental risk associated with hydrocarbon activities in the Beaufort Sea and these are the prevention of a blow-out, the timely stoppage of a blow-out if it occurs and the containment and cleanup of hydrocarbons from a blow- out.
675. Given the recent Gulf of Mexico disaster, industry failed on all three accounts. At this time we simply cannot take the chance that any one or more of these failures will be repeated to the detriment of the health of the Beaufort Sea ecosystems.
676. In addition to this is the admittedly inability of government and industry to both stop and clean up such a spill after it occurs, even with readily accessible equipment and resources, which are limited to the point of non-existence in the Beaufort Sea area.
677. Of the main three main -- of the three main cleanup options, skimmers, dispersants, and in-situ burning; skimmers will not work in ice infested waters and there has been no detailed assessment of the probability of success with either dispersants or in-situ burning.
678. One of the key areas identified in the Beaufort Regional Assessment BREA process relates to the possibility of an uncontrolled hydrocarbon spill in the unstable ice field waters of the Beaufort Sea, the impact of such a spill on the marine environment and the ability of government and industry to remediate it in an environmentally satisfactory manner.
679. At the present time we do not have any detailed lifecycle understanding of the living organisms within the Beaufort Sea, let alone know how an uncontrolled hydrocarbon spill would impact these organisms.
680. This has resulted in several inconclusive processes over the past several years to determine knowledge gaps, concerns and actions needed to facilitate the orderly and environmentally sustainable development of the region‟s hydrocarbon resources.
681. The outcome of this inconclusive process was the finalization of the Beaufort Sea Strategic Regional Plan of Action, followed by a proposal to conduct a
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Cournoyea
Beaufort Regional Environmental Assessment, BREA, which addresses specific initiatives that should be undertaken by governments and other parties.
682. Since the initial award of Exploration License 446 to Imperial Oil in 2007, the Inuvialuit have had serious concerns over the possibility and possible threats to the Beaufort Sea ecosystems by the conduct of exploration and future predictive activities in the Beaufort Sea offshore, particular in those areas beyond shore-fast ice.
683. This concern has been shared with Federal and Territorial government departments and agencies and other interested parties.
684. I would like to further add that, in this day and age, we have scientists, technologists, traditional knowledge that‟s available to provide solutions and we have also -- have to look at this project and what is proposed in a way that it takes the consideration of the wealth of knowledge to have these problems solved.
685. So we would like to see a solution -- a solution process to getting answers to these questions and putting measures in place where we can have the resources to finally get the research done and to provide answers to how we are going to deal with the three issues.
686. Thank you very much, and I know that the Inuvialuit are positive-thinking people and we would like to see the government and agencies who are wanting to do offshore drilling come up with the financial resources to solve these problems, not continually talk about them. Thank you.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
687. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Nellie.
688. What I would ask your indulgence is we do have some time at the end of these four presentations for a group discussion; so unless there‟s some specific questions of clarification that you would like to ask Nellie about the things that she has said, I would respectfully request that we hold the discussion to the end of the four presentations and talk about those as a group, if that‟s all right.
689. Okay, I don‟t see anybody revolting. So I would like now to ask Frank Pokiak to come forward to do his presentation. We will get that loaded up for you, Frank, right away.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
690. I‟m sure again, most, if not all of you, know Frank. He‟s the Chair of the Inuvialuit Game Council, was born is Sachs Harbour, is currently living in Tuk, where he‟s spent most of his life. He has made wildlife management a priority throughout his life. He‟s been a member of the Game Council for many years. He‟s been the Chair for the last eight.
691. And he‟s also been a member of several of the other co-management boards established under the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, including the Screening Committee and the Wildlife Management Advisory Committee - Northwest Territories.
692. He‟s been a representative of Inuvialuit at many regions -- many forums, many conferences, nationally and internationally, over the years related to wildlife management issues. He‟s known as a traditional knowledge holder, held in high regard, and he‟s a harvester of many different species here in the region.
693. So we will get things going very shortly.
694. MEMBER HAMILTON: Frank is not very good at technical stuff. He‟s good at everything else, but getting the computer going.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
695. MS. McCULLOCH: I think we‟re only about three seconds away, from what I can see. Patience is a virtue.
696. So with that we will turn it over to Frank.
697. MR. POKIAK: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. My name is Frank Pokiak. As stated, I am the Chair of the Inuvialuit Game Council or IGC as people know it. I would like to first thank the NEB for allowing me the opportunity to present here today.
698. You know, I‟d just like to speak a little bit on oil and gas because nowadays, you know, we‟re sort of -- we‟re all dependent on oil and gas to heat our houses and run our trucks, and right know, you know, we get up to nice warm houses, you know. Everybody gets up to a nice warm house nowadays because we‟re heated with fuel and -- but when I got -- when I first got married 39 years ago we were still burning wood, and I don‟t know if you guys ever experienced it, but in the North
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
when you get up in the middle of the winter it‟s very cold in the house so you‟re shivering. And every morning my wife would get up to light the wood stove and I‟d watch her, I‟d be -- I‟d still be in bed and she would be shivering, trying to light the stove.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
699. MR. POKIAK: Anyway, I finally got fed up with watching her light the stove, get up in the morning and light the stove. So one morning when I got up I was watching the show for a while. So I didn‟t want to watch her anymore, so I faced the wall so I wouldn‟t have to watch her light the stove.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
700. MR. POKIAK: Anyway, with that, I‟d like to continue here. The IGC represents a collective Inuvialuit interest as it pertains to wildlife matters. The Inuvialuit Game Council feel that it‟s important to highlight a number of concerns, comments and questions that the community and the Inuvialuit Game Council have regarding offshore drilling in the Beaufort.
701. I think some of these things I‟m probably going to repeat of Inuvialuit concerns that people have already made known to NEB. Some of the same concerns will probably come out in this presentation.
702. What happens in one part of the Beaufort Sea can impact the rest of the Inuvialuit Settlement Region and the Inuvialuit traditional practices that we rely on for our food and economy. I guess when we first started talking about offshore activity, just areas where the activity was happening, you know, they were doing consultations, but we told the company, we said you have to consult -- consult with all six communities in the Inuvialuit Settlement Region; so that has been done.
703. Inuvialuit traditional knowledge and science suggest that a number of species that the Inuvialuit rely on heavily utilize the leads on the sea ice.
704. Oh, what did -- what is happening to this?
705. MS. McCULLOCH: Yeah, it‟s moving on here, but it‟s not moving up there.
706. MR. POKIAK: Yeah it‟s moving on here and it‟s not showing.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
707. MS. McCULLOCH: So Frank is thinking it‟s all --
708. MR. POKIAK: Where was I? I hope this think don‟t blow up on us.
709. MS. JUNG: Oh, no, no, it‟s not going to blow. It‟s not going to blow.
710. MS. McCULLOCH: It will either blow up or we will throw it out the window.
711. MR. POKIAK: Yeah.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
712. MR. POKIAK: Now, she‟s got me all confused, so -- how many are confused here?
713. The Inuvialuit knowledge and science suggest that a number of species that the Inuvialuit rely heavily on, like I said, utilize the leads in ice. For instance, whale, sea birds, seals and polar bears, especially rely on these ice leads for their migrations and other aspects of their life cycle.
714. I hope I‟m on the right page. The Inuvialuit traditional knowledge and science suggest that a number of species that the Inuvialuit rely on heavily utilize the leads on ice, like I said. Whales for sure, sea birds, seals, like I said, for their life cycle.
715. It‟s not showing up on here. I don‟t know what‟s happening here.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
716. MR. POKIAK: I think they're doing this on purpose so I can get confused.
717. MS. McCULLOCH: Our apologies, Frank. It‟s -- it‟s very confusing for us as well as you.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
718. MR. POKIAK: It is also critical that in the event of an oil spill that the
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
oil does not reach the shore. This is a sensitive ecological -- ecologically important habitat for wildlife, especially migratory waterfowl. These birds are an important food source that the Inuvialuit rely on every year.
719. Key sensitive coastline areas have been identified for priority cleanup should an oil spill occur; however, the whole ocean and coastline is important to the Inuvialuit.
720. I guess this coast here -- someone asked me one time which coastline we want protected, you know, which ones are the most important and I said, All the coastlines are important to us, so we can't -- we can't really pick which areas are important to us.
721. It is also critical that in the event of an oil spill that the oil does not reach the shore. This is a sensitive and ecological important habitat for wildlife, especially migratory waterfowl. These birds are an important food source that the Inuvialuit rely on every year.
722. Key sensitive coastline areas have been identified priority -- I thought I just --
723. MS. McCULLOCH: Yes.
724. MR. POKIAK: -- did this, so it‟s -- anyway, I'm not even going to use that there.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
725. MR. POKIAK: Anyway, I think I'll just continue without the -- without the screen if you don‟t mind.
726. The IGC initiated the BSRPA, Beaufort Sea Strategic Regional Plan of Action, initiative back in June of 2004 by identifying with the Federal Minister of Environment that preparations for offshore development was a critical issue.
727. The IGC continued to push for a regional land assessment for the Beaufort Sea and was happy when an announcement came for the launch of the Beaufort Regional Environmental Assessment or BREA in 2010.
728. Can I just be excused for a minute? My nose, I don't know what‟s going
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
on with my nose, but it‟s been running for two or three months. You know what, if you don‟t mind, I'll just excuse myself.
729. You know, long ago when you were growing up and your nose was running, you'd just wipe it off and wipe it to your clothes when you were a kid. Either that, or you'd just lick it off, so.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
730. MS. McCULLOCH: I still do that at home.
731. MR. POKIAK: Anyway, we'll continue.
732. Typically, patterns show that the Beaufort Sea gyre rotates in a clockwise direction. It is assumed that in a spill, oil will flow towards the North Slope of the Yukon and Alaska as a result of this motion.
733. There is concerns from the community that climate change may affect the direction of the gyre and cause it to reverse its direction. This would cause spilled oil to move eastwards.
734. It should not be assumed that spilled oil would only move westwards and all oil spills cleanup plans should be prepared to -- for implementation throughout the whole region.
735. Also, it has been suggested that the Mackenzie Gas plume may provide a natural barrier to any spilled oil. The communities believe that -- that the plume is -- in fact, gets smaller and closer to the shore later in the fall, diminishing its effectiveness as a natural barrier.
736. A significant area of concern for the Inuvialuit is the lack of current capability for a timely response to an oil spill in the Beaufort Sea. The current response time capability is too long. This is largely due to the lack of local capacity and equipment.
737. The communities would be one of the first responders if an oil spill were to occur. In the Inuvialuit Settlement Region there has been very little capacity building on spill response training in the communities with locals in recent years. It is critical that local residents be trained properly for rapid response to an oil spill from any source.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
738. You know, I've been to a number of international meetings on trying to prevent spills and I think Canada got a big responsibility, you know, for things like that to be in place because once again, you know, when we go to international meetings, Canada -- it looks like Canada is all prepared for a major spill, which they're actually not; so just to point that out.
739. The Inuvialuit want to know what training will occur with the local residents to prepare them to mobilize and assist with an oil spill response.
740. Who would provide such training and when is another question.
741. There is also a lack of offshore spill capable equipment in the communities. Such equipment needs to be strategically placed in readily accessible locations like Tuktoyaktuk. Equipment that is already in the ISR needs to be assessed. The equipment should be capable of responding to a spill of any size when it is occurring in the Beaufort Sea.
742. Oil spill response equipment should be located on support vessels, on fully-equipped spill barges like those in Valdez, Alaska, but, of course, trained competent response personnel are still required -- competent response are still required.
743. There needs to be a clear understanding of the responsibility of industry and the federal government in responding to a spill. On a number of occasions, there has been confusion regarding which federal department or agency is responsible for responding to any type of oil spill in marine and freshwater environments.
744. I think this came out of -- there was a spill in the Mackenzie River one time and we were getting the run-around on who was responsible or who was the body that you had to contact. You were just going from one department, they were just passing you on to another department. So we don‟t want that to happen. I don't know how much gallons of oil can spill while you're trying to do that, so we want answers as soon as possible if there is a spill on who is responsible.
745. There has been a number of discussions regarding methods of response to all spills in the offshore.
746. For the communities, there is an ongoing concern regarding the use of dispersants as a primary method of response at this time. The concern stems from the
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
fact that the dispersants and the oil are dispersed into the ecosystem where it may have negative impact on the species the Inuvialuit rely on for food. This came out quite strongly in Tuk when they had a meeting down in Tuk about dispersants.
747. No information regarding toxicity -- oh, I know some big words like some people here, so --
--- (Laughter/Rires)
748. MR. POKIAK: Of dispersants on all chemically-dispersed oil that are planned for use and with potential impact on the Beaufort Sea ecosystem -- oh, another big word -- is needed before the permission is granted for their use.
749. The IGC also has some concerns and questions with the in-situ burning. What would be the impact of air quality in the vicinity of the burn from the plume -- from an in-situ burning? How far would that plume reach? Are there any potential impacts on the water quality as a result of in-situ burning?
750. Sorry I'm taking so long.
751. Many are disappointed that the industry‟s proposed responses to an oil spill seems to be a case of more of the same.
752. There does not seem to be much new advancement in technology and methods of oil spill response since the „60s and „70s. A concentrated effort must be made to bring all spill response techniques into the 21st Century.
753. There needs to be significant improvements to the proportion of spilled oil that is recoverable. Cost of spill response should not be a main consideration for deciding what -- which method to use.
754. The Inuvialuit Game Council continues to support the same season relief as the -- like John mentioned. I guess that‟s one of the reasons why the -- was started at the time when they -- they didn‟t have a relief well when they drilled for oil in the offshore.
755. The -- this policy provides a level of comfort that has reduced some concerns regarding the potential negative impact of oil and gas development. We are interested in hearing from the other participants and the NEB on this topic -- I think there was some mention of that already -- specifically, the concept of equivalency as
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
it is related to the SSRW requirement for deep-water drilling offshore, Same Season Relief Well offshore.
756. And thus, we have stated that any wells will be a multi-season well. A relief well in the same season in case of a blow-out is, therefore, impractical and so equivalencies must be considered.
757. The Inuvialuit Game Council would like an idea of what the criteria will be for assessing equivalency.
758. With new technologies like the Alternative Well Kill System in Chevron‟s AODR submission be considered possible for relief well capability, Same Season Relief Well equivalency.
759. Another possible option is -- is having a second drill ship in the Beaufort Sea drilling -- while drilling -- while drilling is happening.
760. Aside from cost, there are other challenges preventing this from being a feasible option.
761. A second drill ship could be drilling another -- other prospects when it isn‟t being used as a relief well capacity.
762. There is a current example of the Kulluk drillship acting as a relief well backup for the discovery in Shell‟s drilling program planned for 2012 in Alaskan Beaufort Sea.
763. The Game Council is also interested in hearing more about the effectiveness of wellhead injection of dispersants in the situation of this sub-sea blow- out. Unfortunately, this issue was not considered during the recent Dispersant Use Workshop that was held here in Inuvik in July of this year.
764. Could injection of dispersant at the wellhead lessen the potential impacts of a late season sub-sea blow-out? Could the wellhead injection continue throughout the winter when the Beaufort Sea is covered in ice and other methods are not possible?
765. I‟d just like to thank the NEB once again for -- for giving me this opportunity to bring out the concerns that the Game Council had and if there‟s any other concerns from the Council out there, things that I have -- I have missed, can you
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Pokiak
just let them know anything that I missed?
766. And I‟d just like to pass on sort of a message from my brother Charles. You know, he was born in 1962, and he‟s still trying to find where his father is. So any -- any of you that was here in 1962, can you put up your hand? Maybe we‟ll take some DNA samples.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
767. MR. POKIAK: So with that, thank you very much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
768. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Frank. And apologies on behalf of the team for the audiovisual disruption. I know how unnerving that can be, and you recovered totally gracefully.
769. Our third presentation this morning or set of comments -- or, sorry, this afternoon. It‟s a big blur to me -- are by Dr. John Amagoalik. He‟s received an honorary doctorate lately.
770. John is, again, similar to our other speakers, well-known to many of you in the room. He currently is working with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association, but he wears many hats, just like lots of folks here with us today.
771. He‟s the previous president of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami or ITK. He‟s the previous chair of the Nunavut Implementation Committee that was the organization that basically set the foundation for the Government of Nunavut following the settlement of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement.
772. He‟s a well-respected man. He‟s been working for the people and for the land for many years. And so I would like to welcome him.
773. And, John, please, share your thoughts with us on the Inuit experience in the High Arctic with oil and gas.
774. DR. AMAGOALIK: Thank you. I don‟t do Power Points, so don‟t worry.
775. THE INTERPRETER: First of all, I would like to say I haven‟t been
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Dr. Amagoalik
here for a while, for about 28 years now. I was here in 1970s or „80s, a few times when we had to meet regarding the Nunavut land claims.
776. DR. AMAGOALIK: First, I want to say I‟m glad to be back after so many years. I haven‟t been here for more than 20 years. When we were -- first started working on land claims negotiations, I was very much involved in all the regions because we were all still negotiating our land claims.
777. I‟m going to -- I‟m going to be very brief presentation about the experience of oil and gas exploration in the High Arctic.
778. As you know, most of this exploration in the Canadian Arctic mostly occurred in the Beaufort Sea and in the High Arctic Islands. Some oil and a lot of natural gas were found. This did not lead to development extraction of the resources because it was not economically feasible at the time.
779. In the 1970s, the oil companies abandoned their exploration activities in the High Arctic because of the uncertainty of who owned the land and its resources. The Inuvialuit/ Nunavut were just beginning too negotiations with the Government of Canada to settle their land claims, and they had insisted that no resource development occur until a settlement had been reached.
780. Of course, we all know oil companies don‟t like uncertainty, and because of that, they pulled out until after the land claims agreements have been signed, and that certainty has been removed.
781. We now know who owns the land and who should benefit from its extraction.
782. The exploration was intense with dozens of multi-national companies involved. During this frenzy of exploration, Resolute was one of the busiest airports in the country.
783. I remember one particular summer -- if any of you have been to Resolute before in the summer, you know there‟s a small bay -- a very small bay, and I remember 16 ships in that little bay during the height of this intense exploration.
784. The Inuit had not yet established their organizations and were basically ignored by the government and the oil companies. No permission was sought, and no consultations took place. The oil companies were allowed to do pretty much what
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Dr. Amagoalik
they wanted to do by the Government of Canada.
785. Because the Inuit organizations were not in place, very little information was passed on to Inuit, and monitoring of the exploration was almost non-existent.
786. It was only years later that Inuit began to see the damage the oil companies had done in the High Arctic. There was a huge blow-out at one of the drilling sites, which lasted about three months. It was fortunate that it spewed only natural gas on water. If it had been oil, it would -- there would have been an environmental disaster.
787. There were fires. There was a horrific plane crash, fuel barges sinking. The only reason we found out that a barge with one million litres of diesel fuel had been caught in ice and sank and is still there, and we were never told. Cat trains would go through the ice and sink into the bottom of the ocean, tons of abandoned equipment, garbage and drilling mud left behind.
788. In 1993, the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement was signed by the Inuit of Nunavut and the Government of Canada. Subsequently, the Government of Canada and the oil companies have started looking North again to drill and develop the discoveries of the sixties and seventies.
789. Our Land Claims Agreement created institutions of public government. It contained provisions for the duty to consult, the necessity of negotiating Inuit impact and benefit agreements. If these are not in place, development cannot take place.
790. We created the Nunavut Review Board, the Nunavut Water Board, the Nunavut Plumbing Commission, where all companies would have to go if they had a proposal for development.
791. We have also been very busy since 1993 because we knew mineral and oil and gas development was coming; we had to be prepared. And what we wanted to do was to create special areas in Nunavut to protect special places and wildlife habitat.
792. We have created national parks, three of them so far, bird sanctuaries, and conservation areas. Negotiations continue for historic sites, another national park on north Bathurst to protect the Peary Caribou, and a national marine conservation area in Lancaster Sound.
793. With these environmental and wildlife protection measures in place, the
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Dr. Amagoalik
Inuit will be prepared to discuss oil and gas development in Nunavut.
794. Just briefly looking at the future in Nunavut, for Nunavut to have a viable economic future, its natural resources need to be developed to provide the necessary resources for our many needs in Nunavut, and Olayuk will expand on that on her presentation tomorrow.
795. But the development of Nunavut‟s natural resources cannot occur as it unfolded in the 1960s. It must be -- it must be done with proper measures in place, and very broadly, there should be an agreement between Inuit and Canada on how exploration and development of oil and gas will be done. I know that‟s a tall order, but we have to start somewhere.
796. Secondly, the protection of the environment and wildlife must be priority. They must not be ignored like they were back in the early days.
797. And the Inuit and the Government of Nunavut must benefit from all renewable and non-renewable resources development. We keep hearing over the years that millions and hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent by resource companies in the North and some people in Canada think that these monies are going to Inuit and their communities, they are not; they‟re all going to government departments and oil companies.
798. One last word of advice, we‟ve been negotiating with mining companies in our region, and I think all of you may have heard about the Mary River Iron Ore Project. We‟ve been having problems with the government -- with the company because they came to us with 5,000 pages of their plans, and this was the first time we had ever seen anything about a proposal.
799. They just sort of dropped out of the sky and said, here‟s our proposal, do you like it, sign on the last page. It doesn‟t work that way. Companies, if they want to do things up here, they must come to see us first before they produce these 5,000 pages of their plans because in the end, those plans of mice and men often go astray.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
800. MR. AMAGOALIK: So I hope that governments and resource companies will come to our communities in a different way. Don‟t ignore us because we‟re the first people that you have to talk to.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
801. Thank you.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
802. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, John.
803. So while we get the next presentation set up, I‟d just like to do a brief introduction for Duane Smith.
804. And as he mentioned, he wears a number of different hats. Today he‟s here representing the Inuit Circumpolar Council. He‟s the Vice-Chair of this organization, which is the pan-Inuit body that celebrates and promotes Inuit unity from Russia to Greenland. He‟s also the President of ICC Canada which represents Canadian Inuit on matters of both circumpolar and international importance.
805. Some of his other hats that we know of is that he‟s the former chair of the Game Council, where he was a central figure in negotiating the Inuvialuit/Inupiak International Beluga Management Agreement, as well as a revised agreement on Inuvialuit/Inupiat polar bear management.
806. So currently in his work as the ICC Canada President, he recently chaired the Inuit Leader‟s Summit on Arctic Resource Development earlier this year, and he is also an active Inuit leader in many Arctic council files related to oil, oil and gas development, sustainable development, languages, as well as Arctic transportation.
807. So with that, I‟d like to turn it over to Duane Smith, please.
808. MR. SMITH: Okay. Atitu. I know I am the last speaker for now, and I -- I will try to take less than my 45 minutes I have been allocated.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
809. MR. SMITH: I know everybody wants a coffee, but I‟d like to thank the NEB for coming up and allowing me the opportunity to speak to you today.
810. Secondly, it is an honour to be speaking right after what is commonly known in Nunavut, the Godfather, John Amagoalik, is how he is referred back home because of his long-standing persistent lobbying of Inuit rights, as he stated, not only in Nunavut, but he went to see Eben Hobson as well back in the day.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
811. Just to give you a quick overview, ICC, who we are, the Inuit Circumpolar Council was created, in part, because of John and Nellie many years ago going over to Alaska to discuss resource activities that were taking place in their respective backyards, and a person named Eben Hobson called on the Inuit leaders of the day to come over and visit. At that time, it was Sam Raddi, which Nellie had the pleasure and honour of working with for many years as well.
812. But that -- ICC is made up, as you can see, of offices within Chukotka, Alaska, Canada, and Greenland. And as it says, we lobby for the rights of the Inuit people within our respective regions and together to bring it more to a domestic nature.
813. If this thing will change -- okay, they‟re -- okay.
814. From a Canadian perspective, as you can see, there‟s -- the four regions have been cited. This area, as you can see on the map here, says Inuvialuit or the ISR. Some people refer to it as Nunarput or Nunatsiaq and then you‟ve got the Nunavut region, the Nunavik or the Northern Quebec region, the Makivik Corporation, as well as Labrador or what is commonly referred to us by now as Nunatsiavut.
815. And I just wanted to point out during my interventions earlier, as you can see on this map, all the black dots are Inuit communities across Canada, and you can see all but two are right on the coastlines. And the -- the same -- the same percentage applies right across the Inuit Circumpolar World where almost all of the communities are based on the coastline.
816. So you can -- I‟m pointing that out because it‟s reflecting how -- how much our relationship is tied to the marine resources and the coastline as a part of our culture, not only within Canada or this region as you‟ve heard already, but throughout the circumpolar Arctic.
817. I‟ve already stated some of these comments but our culture and our identity are a part of the sustainability of the marine ecosystem. The Inuit do not see ourselves apart from it, we see ourselves as -- as a part of the ecosystem. Anything that‟s going to affect the ecosystem is going to affect who we are as a people as well.
818. We have tried to be stewards, as you‟ve heard from Frank and others, in regards to managing the resources within out respective regions. We‟re -- we‟re not
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
perfect either in our trial and errors, but, I mean, if we make a mistake it‟s going to affect our livelihood and we‟ll learn from that mistake as well and move forward.
819. The history, I‟ve touched on that a bit, as well as John, but in the late sixties early seventies there was the Alaska find, of course. Most of you know this, but that was basically the opening of the exploration activity primarily within the Alaska and the Canadian Beaufort Sea.
820. With that, Inuvik organized themselves, responded and eventually created Boroughs -- North Slope Boroughs within Alaska. A land claim organization such as within Canada, or corporations, as well as governments, such as the Greenland Home Rule Government or self-government now in -- in pursuit of self-determination.
821. Exploration levels have varied throughout the Arctic, but expand further into Inuit, so it‟s crucial to our cultural sustainability. Some of the examples that are taking place recently, again, most of you are aware of this, but the Cairn Exploration, other companies have purchased rights off of Greenland as well.
822. Of course, Okalik‟s region; primarily she represents the Qikiqtarjuaq, which is the Baffin, have some concerns in regards to the activity because similar to the offshore, as stated here, if there‟s an oil spill on the Alaska side of the Beaufort or on this side, it‟s going to affect both of us and the same thing is going to apply within the Davis Strait region, which is just as difficult or even more so difficult to conduct exploration activities or remediation measures.
823. Other areas you might not be too familiar with, but the Chukatka region of Russia, the indigenous population within this area does not have anything remotely as close to us, what we‟re conducting here today in regards to consultation, dialogue, et cetera. There‟s seismic activity or -- that‟s taking place in Chukatka and there‟s plans to do drilling, not only by -- well, by multinational companies and I‟ll leave it at that. But it‟s a very different scenario there, but the impacts not only on the culture and the -- but on the environment are similar.
824. And of course, Alaska; I mean -- and I don‟t think I need to touch too much on that. Everybody‟s heard enough or knows enough about it, the ongoing debate for near-shore or offshore and the outer continental shelf, issues and activities that are always on the table, it seems regardless of which company seems to be active at this time or not. But next -- next week it‟ll -- Shell will move on and it will be another company trying to take a swing at the bat there.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
825. The result of the Greenland Exploration activities stimulated a debate by the Inuit leaders. Every four years the Inuit leaders get together to have a discussion on anything and everything that‟s affecting the well-being of who we are as a people, our regions as well as our resources. Out of that assembly, which took place in Greenland, the Premier proposed that we have an Inuit leaders summit to discuss resource development issues, which ICC again is the -- the tool that‟s used to provide such a facility which we did.
826. That was held in Canada where we brought the Inuit leaders, various premiers who happened to be Inuit as well, presidents and CEOs. A lot of the land claim organizations or Boroughs took place and attended that, as well as outside expertise because we were discussing oil and gas exploration offshore as well as mining issues. But I‟ll try to focus on the oil and gas perspective on that.
827. We had a healthy debate. We looked at how in the various regions within Canada, various regions such as the ISR and the Nunavik area, how -- how they conduct their environmental reviews and assessments within their respective regions because Greenland had opened its doors for the exploration, but at that time they did not have any process to conduct environmental assessments or reviews.
828. So they wanted to learn from ourselves as well as from the Alaskans primarily on how we conducted that business, and I have to say that they‟re -- they‟re learning quite quickly and adapting and getting the tools in order that they need to address those issues. And they still have a long ways to go, but, I mean, it‟s a process that they have undertaken in regards to trying to develop their resources so they could become more self-sustainable.
829. As well, we had the pleasure and the honour of Gaétan coming to explain the NEB process to everybody and how -- how they‟re -- they‟re regulator within Canada, or most of Canada, and how they operate within the region so that we can take that away during our discussions and debates. And from that we came up with the -- I know it doesn‟t show up very well here and it‟s a very large document.
830. It is available on our ICC website for you, but it‟s already been quoted and cited at all levels internationally. Especially at the UN level as well because this document has a few -- quite a few interesting quotes that were put together by the leadership and referenced. But this is the step forward; it‟s not the final step; it‟s a living document because we have to be adaptable and be open to the things that are taking place within our respective regions.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
831. But the -- this declaration, I have a few sections that I‟d like to point out within it dealing with how we see development issues within the Inuit Arctic taking place.
832. Some of the key principles are the Inuit welcome the opportunity to work in full partnership with resource developers, governments and sustainable development of those resources. You‟ve heard that from some of the Inuit leadership today. And I‟ve -- I‟ve shortened some of these sections within the declaration itself.
833. All resource development must contribute actively and significantly to improve -- improving Inuit living standards. John has stated that as well very clearly from the Nunavut perspective. And again, this next statement, those who face the greatest impacts must have the greatest opportunities, you know.
834. You know, we‟ve had a lot of workshops with the oil and gas companies, especially in this deep water offshore exploration consideration at this time. And the Inuvialuit have a lot of experience dealing with near-shore, very shallow water, and it‟s a -- it‟s a big difference for us to consider near-shore versus deep water because we know it‟s a -- it‟s a totally different story and the impacts are much -- much bigger with much less return as a possibility. Hence the reluctance and the need to deal with this cautiously.
835. But again, that‟s one of the reasons we‟re having this nice discussion today and throughout the week and, hopefully, again as we learn things progress and improvements will continue on how things are dealt with, not only within this Arctic but the circumpolar Arctic, and I‟ll touch on that a little bit more after as well.
836. Resource development must also enhance, not detract from Inuit food security. Maybe Nellie could take that back to the Nutrition North.
837. But food security, basically, is what we‟re talking about, ensuring that the ecosystem can provide for us as well as it can in regards to the marine and land resources in a sustainable manner. Because if we don‟t have the food security and it‟s been affected here in a negative manner then it‟s going to affect us again.
838. Economic development and social cultural development must go hand in hand. That‟s very crucial in our environmental and screening processes, under every land claim within Canada that -- every Inuit land claim within Canada at the very least.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
839. You can‟t separate or differentiate each of them because you have to look at the economic development issues that you‟re considering and how that may affect you, either positively or negatively. Because at the end of the day it‟s all considering the wellbeing of the people and how they‟re going to move forward in life.
840. I‟ve always stated and I‟m not so sure about it today but if you recall growing up you used to see these commercials done by Canada, and Canada used to pride itself on its cultural diversity. You never see that today but then we‟re still considered one of the most diverse countries culturally, but you don‟t see those anymore so I‟m not sure if Canada prides itself on that but they should.
841. This is more or less touching on a little bit -- I just wanted to bring this to your attention if you‟re not familiar with it but the Arctic Council which the ICC is a part of, we sit at the table with the eight circumpolar states discussing pretty well anything and everything that‟s taking place within the Arctic, from telemedicine to the oil and gas issues that are taking place right now.
842. Under one of its six working groups, the emergency preparedness and prevention of resources, the working group has been tasked with looking at the oil spill preparedness of the circumpolar Arctic. They‟re the lead working group that‟s responsible for that from the circumpolar perspective.
843. So anything that was within Canada will be a part of that report as well on how they look at things, primarily because the Arctic Council sees this as one of its key priorities on dealing with the issues and they do recognize a strong lack and need of infrastructure within the Arctic.
844. Some of the recommendations in my conclusion are, I guess to put it briefly -- and if I‟m not clear enough in my summary here and you want clarification, please ask me later.
845. But some of them are is to work closely with the Inuit as required under their constitutionally protected land claims, and I think that‟s pretty clear already.
846. Strengthen present regulations to reflect Canada‟s sovereignty within its domestic region and waters. I look at the river systems that drain into the oceans within Canada as well and I see that -- those areas need to be strengthened and we had brief discussions yesterday with Transport Canada and the processes that are applied within Canada‟s domestic waters really need to be strengthened as well to reflect how we look after our own backyards.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Smith
847. And you‟ve heard from others already, including the need for same season relief capability. I myself just cannot see how this cannot be conducted, especially with ice infested waters unless -- if you haven‟t seen the latest news today on one of the researchers out of a German research facility saying as of today the ice has receded to the smallest its ever been and is still shrinking. So maybe we‟re -- it might be a moot discussion in 10 years, who knows with the way the ice is disappearing on us.
848. But regionally explored areas with the capacity to provide immediate -- immediate requirements. That‟s what I was stating earlier, we can‟t wait two or three days for the equipment to be flown up from a Sarnia or a Scotland or, you know, all the way from Norway where they have the equipment.
849. As well as further immediate research on dispersants and other containment and clean up processes with full Inuit involvement. There‟s at least five other mechanisms to try and address clean up and containment of spills but it seems that not only industry but the government, as Frank was stating again, is focused on dispersants as being the solution, especially in the Arctic.
850. And we‟ve had a few workshops within this region regarding that matter and it just doesn‟t seem that dispersants are known enough in regards to the negative impacts they may have on the ecosystem in the long-term, the medium and the long- term.
851. With that, I just want to point out that we are local -- the Inuit community is local, it‟s also global. As I‟ve shown you on the map from Greenland to Russia, we‟re one Arctic, one ocean and we‟re all connected.
852. So what you apply here is going to affect the circumpolar Arctic in some way or another because if you have a negative impact on the marine species within our domestic waters, it is going to affect people within other regions that sustainably depend on those resources as well.
853. And the Beluga, the Bowhead, they‟re all one example. The seals, the migratory birds that over-winter in Northern Japan from here, et cetera, will all have an effect on people elsewhere.
854. So that‟s why I state -- I guess my strongest recommendation is that we
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
have the one opportunity to make this right, to apply the highest and most stringent standards for any resource exploration so that we can conduct that activity and demonstrate to the world that we can do it, this is as close as we can get to making it as perfect as possible, but let‟s ensure that we can do everything to eliminate any negative potential occurrences that may occur.
855. With that, Quayanaq; merci; thank you very much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
856. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, Duane. And thanks to our four speakers.
857. What I‟m going to propose, there‟s on the agenda of course some time for some questions of clarification and some broader discussion as well related to these last four presentations.
858. I think the translators and the transcribers and I‟m sure you folks as well need a bit of a break so what I‟m going to propose is we come back and do that at 3:30 and take a 15-minute break and refresh yourselves and come back for some more discussion.
859. I think the blind auction is still on but I think it‟s over today so -- I don‟t know the details of it unfortunately but take advantage of that if you could, please.
--- Upon recessing at 3:14 p.m./La session est suspendue à 15h14 --- Upon resuming at 3:31 p.m./La session est reprise a 15h31
860. MS. McCULLOCH: All right folks, so before we get into the next round of discussions what I‟d like to do is continue on with the introductions.
861. So as we did earlier in the day we‟re just going to start with this table at the front, we‟re going to go to the back, and everybody just state their name, their organization, their community, then we‟ll go up the next row.
862. Then we will sort of stop probably about here and we will finish off at the end of the day with the rest of the folks, unless we get in a real groove and then we‟ll just finish it.
863. But then we will turn back to the completion of the preliminary discussion
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
of the four presentations that we just had before the break.
864. So I‟ll turn it over to this first table. So, Jimmy, please.
865. MR. KALINEK: I am Doug Esagok. No, I am not Doug Esagok, I was joking.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
866. MR. KALINEK: Jimmy Kalinek, Inuvik HGC.
867. MS. EEGEESIAK: Good afternoon, my name is Okalik Eegeesiak. I will speak on behalf of -- as the president of the QIA and the members.
868. MR. AMAGOALIK: John Amagoalik; Olokhaktamlut Hunting Association, I provide policy advice to the leadership of QIA.
869. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
870. MR. OLIKTOAK: Joshua Oliktoak; Ulukhaktok Community Corporation.
871. MS. McCULLOCH: Thanks.
872. MR. AREY: Joe Arey from Pike River. I‟m a board member of -- I‟m representing our community. Thank you for having me here.
873. MR. DIAMOND: Perry Diamond; Yukon Government Oil and Gas Resources in Whitehorse.
874. MR. EMAGHOK: Lennie Emaghok from Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation.
875. MR. ADAM: Sandy Adam from Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation.
876. MR. TEDDY: Hello, good day. Vince Teddy; Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation.
877. MR. LOVE: Brian Love, I‟m with Energy Mines and Resources, Yukon Government.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
878. MR. HALUKSIT: (No translation) Joseph Haluksit.
879. MS. KLANGENBERG: I‟m Elsie Klangenberg from Elders Ulukhaktok.
880. MR. BINDER: Richard Binder with the Community Support Unit, Inuvialuit, Joint Secretariat.
881. MR. POKIAK: Charles Pokiak with the Tuk Hunters and Trappers and parts unknown.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
882. MS. McCULLOCH: More on that later.
883. Okay, before we head up this semi-row we will head to this fellow. I‟m not going to guess what his name is.
884. MR. ESAGOK: Hi, good afternoon. My name is Doug Esagok. I'm the Inuvik member to the Inuvialuit Game Council.
885. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you. So we will proceed that way, please.
886. MS. PERTSCHY: Good afternoon, I‟m Elizabeth Pertschy from Tuktoyaktuk.
887. MR. SIMPSON: Bob Simpson; Inuvialuit Regional Corporation.
888. MR. CHENIER: Good afternoon, my name is Michel Chenier; I‟m from the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, previously known as INAC and before that DIAND as well. More specifically I am from the Northern Oil and Gas Branch, and it's my pleasure to be here this week.
889. MS. TIBBETTS: Hello. Michelle Tibbetts; Aboriginal Affairs as well.
890. MR. REED: Don Reed, also with Northern Oil and Gas Branch from the community of Ottawa.
891. MR. DILLON: Eddie Dillon from Tuk.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
892. MS. OVAYUAK: Holly Ovayuak; Tuk Community Corp.
893. MS. DILLON: Lucy Dillon; Tuktoyaktuk.
894. MS. McCULLOCH: Thanks. And we will sort of do a little jig over to Adam, I think.
895. MR. DROZDOWSKI: Hi, I am Adam Drozdowski; Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
896. MS. McCULLOCH: And then I think behind Adam.
897. MR. STORR: Don Storr from Hamlet of Aklavik.
898. MS. GREENLAND: Kathy Greenland; Hamlet of Aklavik.
899. MS. McCULLOCH: All right. And maybe with David, please?
900. MR. NASOGALUAK: David Nasogaluak; Elder from Tuktoyaktuk.
901. MR. AMOS: Vernon Amos; Sachs Harbour. I represent Fish and Wildlife Co-Management in the ISR.
902. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
903. MR. MORRISON: Keith Morrison, I‟m from Cambridge Bay, and I‟m the Senior Advisor, Minerals, Oil and Gas from Nunavut, Tunavik.
904. MR. STARK: Hi, Aurian Stark; Senior Advisor, Negotiations for Devolution, Government of Nunavut, and I‟m from Iqaluit.
905. MR. PRUSH: Eric Prush; Government of Nunavut, Economic Development, Transportation Minerals and Petroleum Resources in Iqaluit.
906. MR. TRIGATTI: Larry Trigatti; Canadian Coastguard, Central and Arctic Region, also a member of the Environmental Prevention, Preparedness and Response Working Group of the Arctic Council.
907. MR. QULLAQ: James Qullaq from Tuktoyaktuk, representing the
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
Hamlet Council, but first and foremost I‟m a subsistence harvester of the species in this area. Thank you.
908. And it‟s a pleasure to be here. I‟m really glad the discussions are going the way they are, and I‟m sure throughout the rest of the week there will be a lot of other good participants that are going to be saying things to -- to encourage the -- the industry and -- and whoever else is out there that, you know, we want to make sure and stress the importance of our livelihood from the using of the oceans and -- and why it‟s so important to our people.
909. Thank you very much.
910. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you, James.
911. MR. BENNETT: Hello. Do you hear me? Fred Bennett, the Acting Chair for the Paulatuk Community Corporation.
912. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you.
913. MS. GRUBEN: Good afternoon. My name is Ethel-Jean Gruben; I‟m with the Inuvik Community Corporation and excited to be here this week. And we‟ll always have a life-long interest in our land and waters and the decisions that are going to be made for our people and for the future generation of our children.
914. And from what I gather from the discussions that took place since this morning it‟s all positive so far, so it‟s all good.
915. Thank you.
916. MR. NASOGALUAK: Darrel Nasogaluak; Tuk Hamlet Council and HTC.
917. MS. CARPENTER: Margaret Carpenter from Sachs Harbour, Elders Committee.
918. MR. FELIX: Herbert Felix from Environmental Impact Review Board for the Inuvialuit Settlement Region.
919. MR. SECORD: David Secord; Tides Canada Foundation in Vancouver.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Introduction of participants
920. MS. HARDY: Kim Hardy; Tides Canada Foundation in Vancouver.
921. MR. DALY: John Daly; the Campion Foundation, Seattle.
922. MS. McCULLOCH: Any other folks this side of the room? I know there‟s a couple that have drifted in just in the last few minutes.
923. Yes?
924. MR. BATES: Conrad Bates with Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development Canada here in Inuvik.
925. MS. McCULLOCH: Thank you. And?
926. MR. ARCHIE: Billy Archie; Aklavik Hunters and Trappers Committee.
927. MS. McCULLOCH: Thanks, Billy.
928. MR. PASCAL: Eugene Pascal; Hamlet of Aklavik.
929. MS. McCULLOCH: All right. Anybody I‟ve missed over in this area.
930. Sorry.
931. MR. NASOGALUAK: Darren Nasogaluak; Sachs Harbour Hunters and Trappers Committee.
932. MS. McCULLOCH: All right.
933. MR. BARYLUK: I almost got away with it. My name is Steven Baryluk, I‟m one of the staff with the Inuvialuit Game Council, and my compatriot, Jennifer Lam in the back, was also trying to get away with not introducing. She‟s the other staff with the Game Council.
934. MS. McCULLOCH: Okay, I‟m going back to this side. Anybody on this side that I have missed? Great.
935. So anybody on this side that crept in under the wire? Yes?
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Ayles
936. MS. POKIAK: I‟m Divalynn Pokiak from Tuktoyaktuk, I'm a student and just experienced in all this stuff.
937. MS. McCULLOCH: Excellent. Well, thanks very much.
938. So now that we all know each other by first names there‟ll be a test tomorrow morning.
939. But I‟m going to now turn things over to Andy to continue on with the discussion related to Agenda Item 2.3.
940. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you.
941. What I‟d like to do is introduce somebody that virtually everybody in this room knows, and that‟s Burton Ayles, a fisheries scientist, a long time Northerner and continued involvement and key role in the Fisheries Joint Management Committee and also the work of Kayla Hanson-Craik who is a resource specialist with the FJMC and Burton will be talking about, on both their behalves, about the importance of fish and marine mammals in Inuvialuit.
942. Burton?
943. MR. AYLES: Mr. Caron, Board Members, community members, industry and others, thank you very much for the opportunity.
944. Can you hear me with this? Am I talking close enough to this thing?
945. Thanks for the opportunity to talk to this Arctic Review Roundtable. We‟ve submitted written questions and comments and we anticipate making additional interventions all along, so I‟m just going to speak to some of the highlights of what we‟re going to focus on.
946. Kayla‟s name was mentioned. Kayla is our Community Resource Specialist. She‟s an Inuvialuit beneficiary. She grew up hunting and fishing in the Delta, grew up fishing in Husky Lakes, but she first participated in the Beluga harvest a few years ago as a student mentoring -- student with the FJMC. And she wasn‟t here this morning because she just got back from two weeks in the Babbage River working on Dolly Varden, on our research project with DFO.
947. I should mention that the FJMC is a co-management organization with
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Ayles
two members appointed by the Inuvialuit, by the Game Council and two members appointed by Canada and we have an independent Chair that we elect.
948. Now, the National Energy Board Members and staff have talked to us on various occasions, so I‟m not going to elaborate on the FJMC responsibilities, except to point out that as a result of the IFA a number of authorities for the federal government, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans were transferred to the co-management board, that‟s the FJMC and they include decision-making and advising and recommending, and as you know, those all have certain different kinds of meanings, depending on the legalities of it.
949. But one of the things that we do is we advise the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans on habitat management and environmental protection for the Beaufort Sea, as well as the land areas, the ISR as it relates to fish and marine mammals and that‟s why we‟re here.
950. Our responsibilities are organized cooperatively with DFO and with the Game Council and with the Hunters and Trappers Committee and you can find details of our programs and operations on our website.
951. Well, Frank and Nellie and John and Duane have already pointed out, which I would have done if this was a different forum, is how important the resources -- the renewable resources the Beaufort Sea are to the Inuvialuit.
952. I would just emphasise that pre-contact, the Inuvialuit people were considered to be the wealthiest people in the Arctic. They were much wealthier than the people to the east; they‟re much wealthier than the people to the west and they are wealthier than the people to the south and that‟s because of the unique combination of the environment here, with the Mackenzie River and the Beaufort Sea coming together; this is where all the wealth was -- it‟s in the ocean, so that‟s why it‟s so important and people know that here but I wanted to be able to say that.
953. The first fundamental principle in the FJMC Vision Statement is that -- and I‟m going to quote it.
“The committee will incorporate the precautionary principle in its approach to the management of the renewable fresh water and marine resources of the ISR.”
954. Now, we interpret this to mean that we should err on the side of
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Ayles
conservation when we consider industrial developments, particularly when the chance of irreversible changes, they mean future generations will not have access to the fish and marine mammal stocks that the present generation does.
955. And this is what we were following on October 21st when we advised the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans that it supported the May 18th, 2010 statement that Nellie Cournoyea made to the CEO of NEB and to INAC and that was that the health of the Beaufort Sea ecosystem is critical to the lives and culture of the Inuvialuit.
956. Until government and industry have demonstrated their ability to prevent an uncontrolled blow-out during offshore drilling operations and stop an uncontrolled blow-out during offshore -- all offshore drilling operations and contain and clean up all hydrocarbons from an uncontrolled blow-out in a timely fashion we cannot support any hydrocarbon drilling activities in those areas of the Beaufort Sea beyond land fast ice areas.
957. We advised the Minister to make her concerns, our concerns her own and we advised her to fully participate in this review to ensure that the conservation and protection of the fragile Arctic fisheries resource remains paramount. Now I know there‟s a new Minister now but we expect those responsibilities. That‟s our advice to the Minister.
958. We‟ve talked about the Same Season Relief Well policy and FJMC supports the current NEB Same Season Relief Well policy and our position is that it should remain in place, but that‟s not really enough, other methods that provide more rapid stoppage of an uncontrolled oil release should be implemented as soon as possible and that‟s because the resources in the Beaufort Sea are really susceptible to events that are short term and geographically specific.
959. The resources, the whales, and char, cod, are very patchy, so large concentrations of populations, maybe the whole population are concentrated in a very small area for a very short period of time. If there was a very small oil release in the Mackenzie Delta at the time that the whales were there it could destroy the entire population of Beluga Whales.
960. The Beluga Whales don‟t occupy the entire Beaufort Sea, they move through it but they‟re in very small areas at very particular times. The same with Arctic chars, they move along the coast. A simple spill along the Yukon Coast could destroy all of the Dolly Varden char populations that Canada has. There are only half a dozen rivers along that coast. A spill under the ice where cod are spawning, even
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Ayles
for a very short time, could virtually wipe out the Arctic cod for a very large area.
961. So some kind of -- some mechanisms that shut off the oil as soon as possible would be really something that we‟d need to focus on.
962. We looked at -- I‟d like to turn to some of the other work that‟s been done that you commissioned and other people have submitted. There‟s a really -- the report by Drozdowski -- he‟s going to be talking later -- and then the report by Brasco on modelling spill trajectories and the state of knowledge of geo-hazards.
963. These are two documents that well describe the uncertainties that people talk about or have raised here, the uncertainties of what happens if there‟s an oil spill in the ice. And this is so important for the marine mammals in particular because they‟re at the ice edge and that‟s where the biggest problems are going to occur.
964. We looked at the report by Ross Environmental and we have problems with their conclusions, we disagree with the way they‟ve interpreted the data. They suggest that it‟s -- that if conditions are acceptable 40 percent of the time that that‟s okay, conditions for one of the three clean-up dispersants and burning. If you can do that 40 to 60 percent of the time that‟s okay. Well obviously we don‟t think that that‟s acceptable.
965. We would like to know a little bit more about process, about -- we have an MPA, Marine Protected Area and we have an ecologically and biologically significant areas. We want to make sure that those kinds of things are -- those protection for those areas are recognized as clearly as possible in the process, either in your -- in the -- right at the beginning when the government is considering what area should be open or not at the end after most of the decisions have been made.
966. There‟s a regional coordinating committee and a large ocean management area that‟s been established by DFO with the IRC and we think that this is the organization that we should try to do most of our coordination through for things like review of policies and guidelines that NEB and INAC might develop.
967. Is my time up?
968. Oh, yeah, the interpreters cannot talk as fast as I can.
969. MR. SWIDERSKI: Take your time. You‟ve got another minute.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Ayles
970. MR. AYLES: We‟d also like -- IRC and Game Council and DFO are currently in the process of developing a new a framework for fisheries -- Beaufort Sea fisheries management and what would happen if we find that there‟s new knowledge that would impact on what industry would do. How would that be incorporated into -- into the decision making?
971. Again, we want it to be as soon as possible in the process, rather than at the end of the process.
972. We also have some comments about making the information that industry collects available to everybody, not just the -- the interpretation of the results.
973. Canada relies an awful lot on industry-collected data for decision making, but that data is often considered proprietary. That means that we can‟t all get hold of it, and we wonder if there‟s some way that the NEB Guidelines can make sure that that available -- that information is available to everybody, not just industry. And I know that there‟s problems with that.
974. Well, we also have a problem with the $40 million limit on -- on what‟s called Regardless of Negligence. What happens if the negligence is just because we don‟t know who‟s -- if it‟s a new event, what -- is it up to industry to demonstrate -- or do we have to demonstrate that industry was negligent because they didn‟t know about a particular environment -- environmental problem?
975. We‟re going to be elaborating about these concerns during the -- during the next few days, so I want -- I‟m not going to go further.
976. Thank you very much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
977. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you, Burton.
978. Any questions of clarification on Burton‟s presentation?
--- (No response/Aucune réponse)
979. MR. SWIDERSKI: For those of you who want to turn your memories back, it was September 15th, 1999, in this very room -- many of you were here --
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
which launched the decade of initiary issues dealing with building up the science and traditional knowledge of fish and marine mammals. And I recall listening to Burton speak back then, and these issues still are obviously in people‟s minds.
980. If there are no other questions at this point, I'm going to ask our next -- next presenter to speak to the issue. And I've asked Michel Chenier, who was originally going to be speaking next, he generously agreed to move to another day so that we could keep focused on this one theme.
981. I'm going to ask Will Amos to come up and speak. For those of you who don't know Will, he's the Director of the Ecojustice Environmental Law Clinic at the University of Ottawa. He's taught there for a number of years, and importantly, he's here with regards to -- as legal counsel for WWF Canada.
982. So if we could have your perspective as well, please. Will.
983. MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, Panel Members, ladies and gentlemen, I am not Will Amos.
--- (Laughter/Rires)
984. MR. POWELL: But I'm going to pretend I am for a moment here because I'd just like to introduce our presentation.
985. My name is Rob Powell; I'm the regional director for WWF Canada. And I'd just like to lead off with some comments and then I will hand it over to Will to do the main part of the presentation.
986. The people who live here in Inuvik and the Arctic communities have told us, and we accept that it is true, that they are the people who have lived here for generations and will build their futures here. They are the people who will be most profoundly affected by the things that we are here to discuss.
987. We thank the National Energy Board for convening this important discussion at this time and in this place, and we look forward to sharing and learning mutually over the next few days.
988. After a lull of several decades, the oil industry is now ready again to pursue offshore oil development. People who live in this region are looking for economic development and fossil fuel exploitation shows promise in that regard.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
989. But as we've heard from a number of speakers, our confidence in the safety of offshore drilling has been shaken in recent years by a sequence of events, some of which are so large that everyone knows about them, such as the Montara blow-out off of the northwest coast of Australia and the Macondo blow-out in the Gulf of Mexico.
990. But there are plenty of other incidents that you can add to that; the Gulfax incident in the North Sea, a well control situation, a recent pipe blow-out in -- of Shell's in the North Sea, and there's a whole string of these.
991. So well control failures and spills actually span the globe, from the Persian Gulf to California, and from Brazil to Norway and most of these things have occurred in environments far less challenging than the offshore Arctic environment.
992. No one imagines that something as complex as offshore petroleum development could ever be entirely risk-free. The question then becomes, what level of environmental risk should be tolerated to gain the benefits of offshore oil developments in the Arctic?
993. The Inuit Circumpolar Council, as Duane described earlier, developed a very thoughtful international perspective on this question, and we support the Circumpolar Inuit Declaration on resource development principles in Inuit Nunangat.
994. We urge the NEB to embrace the declaration as a set of guiding principles for their deliberations.
995. WWF is not opposed to trapping and hunting, and we're not opposed to offshore drilling either, so just to get that out of the way.
996. But we share with many who have already spoken, the view that offshore development in the Arctic should only be allowed where and when the risks to the environment and the public are deemed to be tolerable and the consequences of unintended accidents are manageable.
997. We believe there are areas in the Arctic waters offshore that are so essential to the preservation of biodiversity and ecosystem resilience and so vital for cultural and traditional reasons that they merit exceptional protection.
998. WWF is working with members -- other members of the Beaufort Sea
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
Partnership to try to further our understanding of the Beaufort Sea. Together we believe we can distinguish vulnerable and critical parts of the marine ecosystem from areas that can tolerate industrial disturbance.
999. We all want ensure -- and I hope I speak for everyone in the room right now -- we all want to ensure that nothing like the Macondo Deepwater Horizon blow- out ever happens in the fragile waters of Northern Canada.
1000. WWF thinks it is possible to avoid such a fate, but it requires a deliberate choice to accept the risk of offshore drilling, only if and when it can be demonstrated that the chance of a blow-out is low enough to be considered tolerable, that a blow- out can be quickly contained, and that there are effective means to clean up a spill.
1001. WWF Canada, with our partners Ecojustice, set out to review the best information that we could find about the risks of offshore drilling in the Arctic. What we learned we presented to the National Energy Board in two long submissions which are long and technical and good for putting you to sleep.
1002. But anyway, I‟m going to ask Will now to summarize some of our recommendations and conclusions.
1003. Thank you.
1004. MR. AMOS: Putting people to sleep is a speciality of mine. I am a lawyer after all. So you can save your snide comments for later but definitely very, very honoured to be here.
1005. This is -- it‟s very special as a native of Ottawa to have an opportunity to meet so many people from the North. I hope that over the next five days that I get a chance to make some personal connections because this is just -- this really does feel like a once in a lifetime opportunity and it feels like a once in a lifetime event. I‟m really glad that the NEB has convened this.
1006. To hit the highlights of WWF Canada‟s submissions -- I‟ll slow down. My apologies. My goal right now is just to hit the highlights of WWF Canada‟s submissions. And as my colleague Rob noted, they‟re quite substantial, with a view to evaluating under what conditions offshore development ought to go forward, if at all, in the Arctic.
1007. First off, we recommend that an appropriate risk framework be established
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
for every aspect of decision making, and this goes for environmental assessment, all the way through drilling authorizations. And by risk framework what we‟re talking about here is a way that is acceptable not only to the NEB but to stakeholders in general to distinguish between risks that are simply not tolerable, risks that are tolerable, and risks that are merely acceptable.
1008. So there has to be a whole -- a method of evaluation based on data that is publicly available for us to be able to move forward and make decisions in good conscience for generations to come.
1009. This framework has to speak not only to ordinary impacts of drilling, minor incidents that can still affect the environment, as well as worst-case scenarios, and we‟re all aware of what a worst-case scenario can look like.
1010. But the key here is that the framework has to acknowledge that there are some risks that are simply unacceptable and once that is sorted out and we can then identify risks that are unacceptable and risks that are tolerable. Those are distinctions that are very important to be made and I believe that many individuals in this room would support that way of approaching the problems.
1011. So the second issue that we‟re going to focus on -- and I won‟t dwell on it much right now because it starts getting into regulatory jargon and fancy words that I‟d rather avoid today. There is a whole debate around what‟s the best approach, a prescriptive approach or a goal-based approach to Arctic offshore regulation.
1012. And WWF Canada believes strongly that there has to be a mix of both and that there are specific items that really do require that the regulator of offshore oil in Canada indicates very clearly to industry, and industry wants clarity as well, but where they indicate clearly that a certain type of measure must be done or a certain type of technology simply must be implemented.
1013. Thirdly, this is -- and this is a bit -- this is both philosophical but also a very practical suggestion. The polluter pay principle, which is accepted at international law and under domestic law, it must be implemented here, and really that is what we‟re engaging. This entire exercise, this entire discussion is about how can we agree on the implementation of precaution in an offshore context.
1014. At the same time the polluter pays principle is critical and I think that most of us would agree that the polluter must pay if there is pollution as a result of offshore drilling.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
1015. Specifically, we‟re going to recommend -- and we can discuss this further when the issue arises. We‟re going to specifically call for the abolishment of the regulatory cap on absolute financial liability, which right now stands at $40 million, and there‟s a whole discussion around what an operator‟s liability would be under a negligence regime where you have to prove their wrongdoing. Mr. Ayles has referred to this just previously. And liability which is automatic, regardless if anybody made a mistake the money is there, and we believe that the limit on the absolute liability must be abolished. This is an important point for WWF.
1016. On the key topic of Same Season Relief Wells, World Wildlife Canada is very firm in its belief that improve well control methods, including what we‟ll hear soon are better blow-out protectors, including methods like better blow-out preventers, well containment systems, these are not equivalent to Same Season Relief Wells. They are different -- they‟re a component of a response but they‟re not the same thing, and we have to ensure that we‟re comparing apples to apples when we discuss the issue of Same Season Relief Well equivalency.
1017. Ultimately, if we want to prevent the unacceptable consequence of a blow- out that continues throughout the winter underneath the ice, this has to be maintained, and if the Same Season Relief Well requirement cannot be achieved then we don‟t believe drilling should go ahead under that circumstance.
1018. The next issue would be spill response measures, and we have a separate submission, filed about a week ago, in response to the expert report by SL Ross on response gap. This issue has been raised previously as well.
1019. Based on the evidence submitted to the NEB pursuant to that report, we‟ve concluded that only a small fraction of oil that would be released into an Arctic environment under blow-out circumstances could be treated or recovered with available countermeasures and under prevailing environmental conditions.
1020. The key isn‟t just what is available in each community in terms of boats, in terms of booms, in terms of equipment in general, the key is how regularly or how -- on what percentage of days would a response be even possible to be carried out due to conditions. And the statistics on this are critical to understand because in our evaluation over 50 percent of the time a response simply would not be possible due to weather.
1021. The sixth main point and I‟m almost -- I‟ll line up -- and I‟ve got two
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
more after this. I‟ll be quick. Marine spatial planning, planning for marine protected areas is absolutely critical to this discussion, despite that fact that it is not, strictly speaking, within the purview of the National Energy Board.
1022. Any future application for offshore drilling, it ought to occur in the context of an already concluded process that has identified areas that are particularly sensitive, areas where development ought not to occur and areas where development ought to be restricted.
1023. So this is -- it would be, in our estimation, very difficult to determine whether or not drilling should be authorized if a process for identifying areas that ought to be protected hasn‟t been concluded. I would -- if I were in the NEB‟s position I would find it very difficult to know whether or not drilling should go ahead or not if areas nearby the drilling -- nearby by the proposed drilling site were not identified.
1024. So these conditions haven‟t -- this process has not been concluded here and it must be concluded, and WWF is contributing significantly to the process.
1025. Oil spill modelling is a crucial topic as well, and we recommend the commission -- that the NEB commission the development of extended oil spill trajectory modelling and that this be done at an international level, because it‟s not just about what Canada approves, it‟s about what gets approved elsewhere.
1026. And we believe that in applications for exploratory drilling operators must submit worst-case blow-out scenarios, which includes a modelling of the trajectory of potential oil spills under a range of conditions to establish the potential vertical, as well as geographic spread of an oil spill and the data upon which such worst-case discharges are evaluated has to be made public.
1027. In conclusion, we believe the NEB has a crucial role as a regulator to ensure that environmental damage from an oil spill doesn‟t occur in the Arctic offshore. The Board can ensure this outcome in collaboration with Inuvialuit and Inuit governments if they establish tolerable limits for risk and if they withhold approval where the consequences are simply too grave.
1028. We don‟t pretend that finding ways to reduce the consequences to tolerable levels is easily done. In fact, this may require a go slow approach to development and WWF Canada is comfortable with a go slow approach. And as Rob indicated before, WWF Canada does not stand for no offshore, it‟s not calling for a
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
moratorium. However, the conditions under which any development must go forward demand that a precautionary approach is taken.
1029. So thank you very much, and I took forward to meeting many of you this week.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
1030. MR. SWIDERSKI: Just before you folks head off, are there any questions, points of clarification on the presentation?
1031. Nellie, please.
1032. MS. COURNOYEA: Thank you.
1033. Just a question to the World Wildlife Fund Institution. In everything that we‟re saying, all of us collectively, it‟s a terrible financial request to put all these actions in place. You know, it‟s -- even what I say, you know, if you said what IRC, that these are the conditions it‟d be almost like saying no offshore drilling.
1034. But the point is, everyone has their abilities to do things and the World Wildlife Fund you say that you‟re contributing to the process but the process is not a big contribution, you know, it‟s -- but given such a broad and big and well-respected institution, is there possibilities of you working in collaboration to raise the funds for an extra ship so that there will be a second response?
1035. I mean it‟s -- we really struggling ourselves, what is the answer to these things? What are the solutions?
1036. We can all sit around here and say this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, but if it‟s bad then how do you fix it and we know that with the oil and gas industry is that it‟s always, you know, how much would it cost, what the possibilities of getting there on time, the effectiveness.
1037. But given that everybody seems to be saying there should be a relief well, would you lead the charge of raising money for a relief well?
1038. MR. AMOS: Thank you. Thank you, Nellie.
1039. Let me respond very directly to that. Anyone who imagines that we can
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Powell and Mr. Amos
raise that kind of money has to have -- has to think twice. Also, I think if we could raise that kind of money we‟d probably want to spend it on something else, frankly.
1040. But the serious question that you were asking is important because -- and we‟ve struggled with this too because we‟re not -- we‟re not using the pretence of the risks that we see as a way of saying no, that‟s not what we‟re doing here.
1041. And in fact, if, you know, if you look at our submissions to the NEB we tried to be very fair-minded about our assessment of the risk, and unfortunately what that fair-minded assessment shows us is that the risks under current circumstances, particularly for deepwater offshore in the Arctic are -- well, large to the extent that we understand them, and the capacity to respond is small so we regard this as simply a precautionary or a concerning situation.
1042. I think that the -- you know, your comment, Nellie, that this would -- you know, addressing this would be potentially horrendously expensive for the industry, clearly that‟s the case. In fact, I think if you look at the potential cost of addressing all of these concerns it would -- it‟s a daunting prospect.
1043. I guess my only question then would be is this really an economic project to do this if it has to be done right, and if we‟re not going to do it right are we trading off the costs to the industry against potential costs to the environment and society.
1044. MS. COURNOYEA: In previous days of old, in the sixties/seventies the government did make major contributions to the oil and gas industry. As a matter of fact, you know in certain stages the cost to industry was almost negative and I certainly think that if the interest is to do the thing right and there‟s a solution, then we should find ways of trying to make that solution happen and that‟s all I‟m trying to say.
1045. I realize that I guess maybe I have bigger expectations of the capability of World Wildlife Fund to raise money across the world, Canada, and England or wherever. But in any event, it‟s a solution thing, you know, how do you get that solution and it‟s not the first time that industry has been supportive.
1046. Thank you.
1047. MR. AMOS: Thank you.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1048. And if I just might reply to that. We also think that there is room for innovation and improvement and in fact in our recommended tolerable risk framework, one of the points that we made in there is that we agree with the notion of as low as reasonably practicable which is something that is often supported by industry, but only within the range of risks that we would deem to be tolerable.
1049. So there is a bar to get to and once you have got there, then we‟d like to see continuous innovation and I‟m not sure how that -- honestly, how that gets financed, whether it‟s government or industry that finances it. But I do recognize that the hurdles are large and perhaps we‟ll hear from industry about what they -- how they imagine those hurdles can be overcome.
1050. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Nellie.
1051. We‟ve spent the last couple of hours clearly focusing on the environment side of things. The next speaker that I want to help build us today‟s foundational base for the rest of the week responds to the other important part of the Arctic Review which you heard about this morning which was safety; worker safety, safety of people.
1052. And I‟m going to ask the representative Canadian Labour Congress, Andrea Peart, to come and speak. Andrea is the National Representative of Health, Safety, and Environment with the Canadian Labour Congress.
1053. So with that we‟ll have a short perspective on that, Andrea, please. And I know you‟re so enthusiastic but the interpreters are getting tired.
1054. MS. PEART: Can I put -- just shove this a bit. Sorry, I didn‟t want to break anybody‟s laptop here. Is that okay? We can share.
--- (Short pause/Courte pause)
1055. MS. PEART: Hi. So I‟m Andrea Peart with the Canadian Labour Congress. I‟m like the previous speakers before me; I‟m a trade unionist so I tend to speak really loudly and really quickly. So I‟m making an effort to speak slowly, but if I get going too fast just go like this.
1056. So we‟re a little bit different here and we‟re here to talk about health and safety. So when it comes to offshore oil and gas in the Arctic -- not to say that the union members I represent, the 3.2 million of them, aren‟t concerned about the ocean
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
or the environment or climate change, but that‟s not why we‟re here today.
1057. We‟re here to talk about health and safety. And I think a lot of the discussion, especially this morning, and the questions was about what happens if there‟s a spill, and, you know, recourse.
1058. But for us we don‟t have room for recourse. No matter, you know, what happened after the oil began to leak in the Gulf of Mexico, 11 people lost their lives, and all of the money and all of the dispersants in the world can‟t bring them back.
1059. You know, and -- and we hear that number, you know, 11, you know, it is just this, oh, 11, you know. And in all the newspaper articles I read, not one time did they say the peoples‟ names, not one time, and they‟re real people, you know.
1060. Roy Kemp, Blair Manuel, Dewey Revette, Shane Roshto, Jason Anderson, Aaron Burkeen, Donald Clark, Steven Curtis, Karl Kleppinger, Adam Weise, and Gordon Jones, they died, and many of them were young men with young children at home.
1061. So before I start talking about the health and safety process, I wanted to mention one report that the NEB had commissioned by the Pembina Institute, which compared offshore drilling regulations in Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Greenland, and Norway. Really interesting paper, wonderful.
1062. The problem with the report is it just compares the laws, it doesn‟t compare how well those laws are being followed and so we would call that enforcement. So in Canada, as a general rule, we have a lack of enforcement when it comes to health and safety.
1063. And, you know, we can have the best laws in the world but if no one is policing them it doesn‟t really matter.
1064. So an example just of the lack of enforcement, in general, in Canada is that we have some of the best occupational health and safety laws in the world. I travel all the time internationally to speak about how amazing our laws are.
1065. But despite that, we have one of the highest fatality and injury rates in the world, and we certainly have the highest of developed countries with a thousand Canadians losing their life every year because of their work, all of which were preventable.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1066. And the only thing worse than the fact that a thousand Canadians die every year because of their work is that when we look at OECD countries, other countries we‟d compare ourselves to, all of those countries, the numbers are going down, but in Canada every year, it goes up.
1067. Why? Well, it goes up because the occupational health and safety laws are only as good as their enforcement.
1068. So how health and safety works in Canada, only 10 percent of workers are under federal jurisdiction; 90 percent of them are under a provincial or a territorial jurisdiction. So the 10 percent, one in 10 workers that‟s under federal jurisdiction, they have federal inspectors from the federal labour program. And in that federal sector, the laws are being particularly poorly enforced.
1069. So just to talk about the NEB. So the NEB has their own inspectors that would look at field operations, like pipelines, or if they were offshore oil and gas, that would be done by NEB inspectors.
1070. But other parts of the NEB, like the office where Gaétan works, are under federal jurisdiction, and they would have inspectors from the labour program, they‟re called labour affairs officers, and so labour affairs officers would investigate everything under federal jurisdiction, like the NEB offices, but the NEB would have their own inspectors to inspect the field sites.
1071. Okay, so just to cut right to the chase of it, what we see -- and I‟m not here to criticize the NEB, I‟m here to say how things could be better. There‟s room for improvement.
1072. And we think that at the NEB, there is a transparency problem, which is -- what we like to say in the trade union movement -- that means they have too many secrets.
1073. So this is what we do not know: we do not know how many inspections are required for very high-risk -- high-risk inspections. No. We do not know how well they are meeting those requirements, right. Are the high-risk sites getting the visits they are supposed to? Are they proactive, right, are they going to investigate, or are they reactive with their call?
1074. And so I‟m not trying to say that they‟re doing a terrible job, not at all, but
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
trust is earned and if we do not know, how can we have trust that they are doing enough inspections? How can we have trust that the system is working?
1075. And I think it is really easy to criticize the oil companies on this issue, right. It‟s not -- it is the employer‟s job to ensure health and safety, but it is the regulator‟s job to make sure that those laws are being followed. And when we don‟t have policing of the laws, we start to have a problem.
1076. So just so I‟m really, really clear, I strongly recommend that the NEB make this data public. It could be included in the annual report to Parliament. If you‟re looking for examples for other federal government departments to follow that work with the private sector, look to Transport Canada, not that Transport Canada also doesn‟t have room for improvement, but it is a great place to start.
1077. So what do we know? We know that inspections are a big problem in the federal sector. Now, again, maybe it is better at the NEB, right, but as long as they keep it secret, it could be just as bad; it could be worse.
1078. So the patterns we‟re seeing across the country, over the past five years, the majority of the provinces and territories have really focussed on reducing occupational fatalities and injuries, and it has, for the most part, been very successful. The disabling injury rate has gone down 25 percent in five years. That‟s great.
1079. However, in the 10 percent of federally regulated workplaces, it is the opposite, with disabling injury increasing by five percent in five years.
1080. Three reasons for that -- and, again, this isn‟t directly applied to the NEB inspectors that look at field sites, this is for all federally regulated workplaces, which would include the NEB offices.
1081. So problem number one is there isn‟t enough visits to high-risk workplaces. So they separate worksites into very high-risk, high-risk, medium, and low. Very high-risk sites are supposed to get two visits a year, high-risk sites, one visit.
1082. Put your hand up if you think -- so very high-risk worksites, there‟s 156 in the country. Put your hand up if you think 100 percent of those got their two visits. Not a single hand.
1083. So I‟ll tell you what percentage of them got their two visits -- and just so I
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
am clear, it actually does not say two visits, it says at least two visits.
1084. So 2004/05, 18 percent got their two visits. So if you were a school that would be like an F minus, right.
1085. By 2005, that dropped to 9 percent, and then 16 percent by „06/‟07 of the worksites are getting the bare minimum amount required under law, and that is the very high-risk worksites.
1086. At the high-risk worksites, and there‟s 12,000 of them, they‟ve been a little more consistent, but it‟s 10 percent of the worksites are getting their minimum one visit a year. So that is a big problem.
1087. The second problem that they have is that there‟s not enough inspectors. There‟s only 128 labour affairs officers in the country, and the number of workers that fall under federal jurisdiction, that 10 percent, that is a big number, and it is too much for 128 inspectors, so -- let alone the fact that they are spread out across the country.
1088. So when we don‟t have enough inspectors, what it means is they aren‟t doing enough proactive visits; they‟re doing reactive visits, which makes it very difficult for them to find patterns, emerging health and safety issues, and I think it is important for everyone who has kids -- I think it‟s important that people know that somebody is watching them because I think you behave a little bit better, you know, and I think that those proactive visits are really important.
1089. So the second problem we have, and this is very relevant, is the labour affairs officers are not getting enough pay. And the problem -- and I -- and I‟ve said this a number of times. In many parts of the country, we have very experienced inspectors who have been working for a long time and who are doing an excellent job.
1090. In other parts of the country, particularly in Alberta where salaries are high because of oil and gas development, we have a very difficult time getting inspectors. In fact, the most experienced labour affairs officer in Alberta right now has two years experience because they get people who are -- necessarily don‟t have the best education, don‟t have the most experience, and those are the people they get. And with the experience they have being an inspector, they leave as quickly as they can.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1091. Now, when we compare their salaries to other government departments, 91 percent of safety professionals make more than labour affairs officers who are -- it‟s a stressful job, you have to tell people they are not doing the right thing, write orders, but then 91 percent of people are paid more.
1092. Now, that‟s not the best statistic because it includes the private sector, and they usually pay more, but even if you just look at the public sector, 88 percent of the people working in safety are making more than the inspectors, so they‟re at the bottom 12 percent.
1093. Then when we look at natural resources as well, it -- it is worse. That 36 of the natural resources professionals make twice as much as the highest paid labour affairs officer inspector.
1094. So the picture I‟m trying to paint here is that you can have the best laws in the world but without transparency, without looking at these kinds of things, it‟s hard to notice emerging issues like maybe a labour affairs officer needs to get paid more in Alberta, right? Or -- so the transparency issue is huge.
1095. So just to really kind of get to the chase of it, I think that there‟s a lot of issues in inspections right now, and I think that the NEB needs to be conscious of them. I am deeply concerned by a couple of things that I won‟t get into that I think seem a little sloppy at the NEB when it comes to reporting, and I think that there‟s room for improvement in their reporting, and -- and particularly on the inspections.
1096. I can‟t be asked to have confidence in a system that doesn‟t share the number of people who are standing up for that regulatory system and how well it‟s working.
1097. Now, I know that the injury and fatality rates have been decreasing, but I don‟t think that that means necessarily that there‟s enough inspections and enforcement of the law. There‟s a very good chance that that‟s happening as a result of pro-active measures by oil companies as opposed to pro-active measures by the regulator.
1098. So anyhow, that‟s really our perspective on this matter and -- and thanks very much for the time. I‟m very happy to be here today and be asked to speak.
1099. I know that some of that information was new for people in the room, so if anyone has any questions of clarification obviously you can ask them now, but I want
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
people to feel free to come up to me at any point during the week as well.
1100. So thank you very much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
1101. MR. SWIDERSKI: One question for you. Go ahead.
1102. MR. RUBEN: Hi, it‟s Lawrence again.
1103. I‟m trying to get to -- in my perspective I‟m trying to get something from your speech there. I don‟t think there was any point to it. What I got from it was transparency by pay.
1104. Was that what you were trying to get at, transparency by pay in terms of monitors and inspectors? It seemed like you were saying that inspectors, be it Natural Resources or the other department you stated, were better informed or better trained to inspect.
1105. Could you just give me a sense of what you were trying to get at?
1106. MS. PEART: Yup, no problem. So what I was trying to get at is that you can‟t just look at the laws that regulate oil and gas, you have to look at how well those laws are policed.
1107. And when we look at other law, like the enforcement of laws, health and safety in the federal sector, it‟s terrible. And it‟s terrible for a number of reasons. One of them is they‟re not doing enough inspections of the highest risk sites. The second problem is there aren‟t enough inspectors, and the third problem is the inspectors aren‟t paid enough, so they have inexperienced inspectors.
1108. But the issue I have is that if the NEB is doing a much better job than the HRSDC Labour Program, they should share those numbers. If they‟re doing a worse job they should share those numbers because it‟s only by having those numbers that we can find the path to improving health and safety and improving what happens on a day-to-day basis.
1109. We can‟t assume that everybody follows the law to the letter, we need someone policing those laws. And in the case of the NEB, we don‟t know how well it‟s being policed.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1110. Does that help?
1111. MR. RUBEN: Yes, but you being a member of the Canadian Labour Congress, don‟t you have a part in also policing those regulations?
1112. MS. PEART: We don‟t actually. It‟s very clear in the law that it is the employer‟s responsibility to protect health and safety.
1113. At all work sites under the law there‟s a joint health and safety committee and workers are part of that, for sure, and they‟re part of looking for if there are problems, solutions. But at the same time there‟s a role for the regulator, in this case the NEB, to also inspect and make sure and visit sites as an outside person.
1114. MR. RUBEN: So basically a complaints department.
1115. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you.
1116. Nellie?
1117. MS. COURNOYEA: It‟s a similar question. I‟m trying to get some sense out of this presentation. I am -- I can understand overall, you know, regulations and who implements and all this, but you‟re talking about Gaétan‟s office, you‟re talking about renewable resource or resource people, and I don‟t know where your criticism is laid exactly.
1118. Then you mentioned statistics, that we‟re worse than probably Saudi Arabia if we put our statistics down, it‟s hard for me to comprehend that. But who are you really talking about?
1119. Are you saying the National Energy Board‟s regulatory inspection process is the pits or what is it? It‟s everybody else?
1120. MS. PEART: Yeah. So what I‟m saying is the federal inspection process is the pits and the NEB inspection statistics are secret and we need to know those secrets. We need to have a clearer picture of how the NEB is working on this file, and without that it‟s hard to have confidence in the NEB inspectors because in the federal sector the inspectors are the pits, the other inspectors.
1121. I shouldn‟t say they‟re the pits; the inspectors are great, they just have
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
problems because there aren‟t enough of them, amongst others.
1122. MS. COURNOYEA: Just a further clarity. So we‟ve got the National Energy Board whose got secrets, okay. And then we‟ve got other people who are the pits. But who are all these other regulators that you‟re sort of -- because we‟re not -- you know, a lot of us here, we don‟t know all those regulators.
1123. You know, we work with the oil and gas industry when we‟re here, and sometime our people complain about how tough they are, and, you know, and how they always want to put restrictions on the workers that are going there and requirements, but -- I know that -- we know those, and you mentioned that. But who are these other people who may have a -- create a problem that other than National Energy Board?
1124. MS. PEART: I‟m not sure I‟m 100 percent clear on your question. Yeah, can you -- a bit more?
1125. MS. COURNOYEA: I‟ll pose it again.
1126. MS. PEART: Yeah.
1127. MS. COURNOYEA: You aimed at the National Energy Board, which is basically to me a very respectful agency, and they have secrets, okay.
1128. Then you mention other inspection agencies that don‟t do their jobs. You know, there‟s the secrets and the people who are not doing a good job. So who are these other agencies?
1129. MS. PEART: Okay. Sorry, yeah. So the -- 10 percent of workers that are under federal jurisdiction, they are -- it is federal inspectors who make sure the laws are being followed, the same way police make sure laws are being followed.
1130. And just to be very clear, I think the federal inspectors are doing a very good job, I just think there‟s -- there are not enough of them and they‟re not doing enough inspections, and they‟re not even meeting their own guidelines most of the time.
1131. So our concern is that a very similar thing might be happening at the NEB or even more so, I should be frank, I‟m not particularly concerned that the same thing is happening at the NEB, my concern is that I cannot have confidence that health and
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
safety is as safe as it could be when I don‟t have those statistics from the NEB.
1132. So I think what I‟m comparing is federal inspectors that inspect that 10 percent of workplaces, including the NEB office, and that the field inspectors for the NEB should hold themselves to a similar standard and increase transparency so that we know if there are enough inspectors, if there -- you know.
1133. And I think that these are really concrete issues that we need answers to ensure that the law is being enforced as well as it could be. Because very simple problems like not having enough inspectors in a practical standpoint can lead to health and safety problems or a blow-out because the law isn‟t being enforced.
1134. And so our feeling is that for us to have 100 percent confidence in the laws that we have, which are excellent, we need to make sure there‟s enough people enforcing those laws. And unless we have more -- and I‟m the first to say the NEB has been amazing in the past probably seven years at increasing transparency, but there‟s a need to increase that more so, particularly on this enforcement file.
1135. MR. SWIDERSKI: We have one more question, please, from the Chair.
1136. THE CHAIRMAN: And when did you first raise your concerns about there were information with us?
1137. MS. PEART: About?
1138. THE CHAIRMAN: What you just spoke about today.
1139. MS. PEART: Right. So ---
1140. THE CHAIRMAN: When did you first formally raise these concerns with the National Energy Board?
1141. MS. PEART: It‟s an excellent question.
1142. THE CHAIRMAN: Because none of us recall. We discovered that with you when we spoke with you starting Saturday night.
1143. MS. PEART: Maybe a month ago ---
1144. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1145. MS. PEART: --- two months ago.
1146. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
1147. MS. PEART: It‟s some time ago. It was the summer, so probably about a month or two ago.
1148. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
1149. MS. PEART: But again -- and I -- and I'm concerned that my presentation didn't come across very clearly.
1150. I just think that on this issue, because offshore oil and gas is high-risk, it‟s important that we have all the information we need just to make sure the law is being enforced because in other parts of the country, in other industries, we‟re seeing that it isn‟t being enforced.
1151. THE CHAIRMAN: So having heard recently from your concerns, Andrea, I want to assure you that the National Energy Board wants to continue to demonstrate how transparent everything we do is.
1152. Our exceptions to that are matters of the Privacy Act ---
1153. MS. PEART: M‟hm.
1154. THE CHAIRMAN: --- where we will not give you information about matters that are protected in law or matters which in law, such as under the CPRA, the legislation under which we operate needs to be protected for reasons of law as well.
1155. I'm glad that our staff brought to your attention, yesterday or today, our annual report on safety and environment where we talk about our performance in protecting workers and protecting Canadians, and our record will speak for itself on that.
1156. As to getting information to Canadians, we totally agree with your objectives. In fact, we have a team of people working right now, both for the pipelines and this kind of area. We want Canadians to find the information that they need naturally as opposed to have to look for it.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Ms. Peart
1157. Our issue is not about wanting or not.
1158. MS. PEART: M‟hm.
1159. THE CHAIRMAN: Our issue is where do we start with electronic filing? We have more information than any one of you can stomach in less than 15 years, and it‟s a question of how do we not flood the marketplace for information with something which is poorly structured and, in fact, not informative.
1160. So I‟d like to associate with you in terms of the goal, and I want to reassure the people here that as far as offshore drilling is concerned, we have exactly the right number of inspectors right now to inspect compliance with the law in respect of offshore drilling.
1161. There is none going on right now, so we have zero inspectors inspecting offshore drilling at this time, and we‟re going to be proactive and we'll have the right amount by the time it is conceivable that there might be offshore drilling activities.
1162. Thank you.
1163. MR. SWIDERSKI: Thank you.
1164. MS. PEART: Thanks.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
1165. MR. SWIDERSKI: You've been absolutely terrific.
1166. I have one more obligation that I promise we would fit in the last speaker so that we could finish off building the base as it relates to the perspective for Day One.
1167. I'm going to ask a short presentation and assured speaking points largely from the Canadian Arctic Resource Committee.
1168. Charles, if you could please come up?
1169. Charles Birchall is -- I believe you're still the Chair of CARC…?
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Birchall
1170. MR. BIRCHALL: It‟s terrific being the last speaker of the day. Just the only difference -- the only thing separating you from the fresh air, a nice drink, is me, so I'll be quick.
1171. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for inviting CARC to participate in this event. I'm the Chair of CARC. I'm a volunteer of CARC.
1172. This Roundtable, we regard as significant and important, and the NEB is deserving of a lot of credit for convening this Roundtable. It, I think, will serve as a template for future reviews, not only of offshore drilling, but other reviews dealing with the Arctic.
1173. For those of you who don‟t know about CARC, we've been around for almost 40 years and we were formed as a response to the first Mackenzie Valley Pipeline proposal. And in 1972, CARC hosted a workshop called, “Mackenzie Delta Gas: Now or Later”.
1174. In preparing for this particular Roundtable, we -- I read the Oceans North brief, and I believe it was submitted over the weekend. It‟s worth a read. But they use a phrase called “being Arctic ready for offshore drilling,” and in that context, the first requirement of being Arctic ready is the necessity of meaningful Aboriginal consultation, and we've heard a lot about it today.
1175. It is well understood that there's a constitutional duty to such consultation. There's case law and there are settled land claims agreements.
1176. But at the end of the day, in order to be “Arctic ready,” there will need to be consensus and partnerships with the Inuit and Inuvialuit in their homeland. The benefits and the risks to the Inuit and Inuvialuit must be clearly spelled out and acceptable to them.
1177. Second, CARC strongly endorses the need for strategic environmental assessments. Nellie‟s comments regarding knowledge gaps serves to highlight the fact that strategic environmental assessment forms a critical part of this process and should be mandatory. Rob Powell‟s comments from WWF also serve to highlight that need.
1178. In order to have and apply a risk framework, SEA is critical; however, to put it bluntly and recognize it is the end of the day, SEA and cumulative effects
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Birchall
assessments have not been our strength, nor our long suit, and that has to change if we‟re going to pursue offshore drilling in the Arctic.
1179. Given the stakes in the Arctic offshore development, SEAs, as they're called, will serve to drive better planning, reduce risks, and prevent unintended consequences.
1180. Obviously, the identification of best practices in terms of blow-out prevention and response is a key component of this week‟s conversations. However, in conducting these conversations and as regulations and standards are developed, we must recognize and incorporate a mandatory application of the precautionary principle. I'm hoping that this principle will feature in many of our conversations this week.
1181. There should also be a healthy discussion this week of the financial resources necessary to prevent blow-outs, as well as fully meeting compensation obligations in a blow-out scenario, bearing in mind, as we've heard today, that a dollar figure can't be attached to the loss of a way of life.
1182. Finally, one of the earlier presentations this afternoon served to underscore the need for fully-funded decommissioning and remediation standards. The NEB needs to develop Arctic-specific guidelines and standards for the proper decommissioning and disposal of non-producing oil and gas platforms and supporting infrastructure, plus the remediation of Arctic sites when production is finished.
1183. I'm looking forward to our conversations this week, to listening and to learning.
1184. Thank you.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
1185. MR. SWIDERSKI: Any comments or questions of clarification from Charles‟ presentation.
1186. And, by the way, you get the truck for the shortest one.
1187. MR. BIRCHALL: I get a prize?
1188. MR. SWIDERSKI: Yes, it‟s the pickup truck.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Birchall
1189. Questions, comments?
--- (No response/Aucune réponse)
1190. MR. SWIDERSKI: You're off the hook.
1191. MR. BIRCHALL: Thank you, sir.
1192. MR. SWIDERSKI: Oh, sorry, we've got one.
1193. Please.
1194. MR. MORRISON: Just -- just a minor one. Keith Morrison with NTI.
1195. I wouldn‟t have mentioned it, but you did bring up CEAA. There is -- at least in the Nunavut Territory, CEAA is definitely not the lead agency the vast majority of the time, it is the Nunavut Impact Review Board that is part of the legislation which is currently going through and which is the standard.
1196. So I just wanted to make that clear is that the NIRB standard is actually higher than CEAA‟s, so I just wanted to get people aware of that. So CEAA may not necessarily be involved in a project in Nunavut.
1197. MR. BIRCHALL: It‟s my fault for using an acronym which I shouldn't have. I meant Strategic Environmental Assessment. I wasn't meaning the agency, so my apologies.
1198. MR. SWIDERSKI: Yes, please.
1199. Hang on, Charles.
1200. MR. ARCHIE: Hi. Just one quick one.
1201. Towards the end of your presentation there when you talked about infrastructure and taking ---
1202. MR. SWIDERSKI: Please identify yourself.
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Snowshoe
1203. MR. ARCHIE: Oh, Billy Archie; Aklavik Hunters and Trappers Committee.
1204. Towards the end of your presentation when you talked about infrastructure and taking it out of here when it‟s not being used, that‟s an issue that we've been dealing with in Aklavik for the last -- from the last boom.
1205. There's still some cement barges at Herschel Basin that neither government or industry wants to take care of, so I think that‟s something that the NEB should look at as past infrastructure that‟s in place.
1206. And we've got to -- we‟ve got the national park on the mainland and territorial park on the island, and then you've got a bunch of structures there that‟s been sitting for a long time. So when you talk about taking things out, that‟s an issue that we've been talking about for the longest time in Aklavik, so maybe that‟s something that NEB should address for us.
1207. Thanks.
1208. MR. SWIDERSKI: Anything else, folks?
--- (No response/Aucune réponse)
1209. MR. SWIDERSKI: Now, you're off the hook.
1210. MR. BIRCHALL: Thank you.
1211. Mr. Snowshoe, take your time.
1212. MR. SNOWSHOE: Thank you.
1213. What I‟m going to say this afternoon is that it‟s a very good afternoon if all of this concern I had about the Beaufort offshore drilling.
1214. I‟m really kind of disappointed. Looking around the table I‟m the only one that is Gwich‟in. I‟m disappointed with my leaders of not being here to hear all the concerns that have been brought up to the meeting, especially from the Inuvialuit, the young people that I‟ve been involved with a few years. Sitting in a meeting with them and they have come out of their concern that if anything is going to be happening out in the Beaufort Sea make sure that there‟s nothing to be happening like
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Snowshoe
what happened in Mexico, and other places.
1215. We too have a concern of developing that it happened -- as you all know we have what we call a Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, and in that Act it states that we have to protect the quantity and the quality of the water.
1216. As you heard, that this is happening down in Alberta, the oil sand. As you heard during the spring we had two blow-outs on the pipeline; one at Peace River and one at Wrigley.
1217. As you know, that not too much has been done in that area. Oil and gas companies are ignorant in the Wrigley spill right now. That‟s the way they play their game. I just want to bring this to your attention because through the meeting here even though this is concerning the Beaufort Sea drilling we‟re already having a problem right now.
1218. Another thing we‟ve had on our mind is the Peel River watershed. There‟s a big commotion up there, big talk about that. We want to protect the Peel River watershed; we‟re working on that.
1219. If nothing is happening on the Peel River watershed and then something happened out in the Beaufort Sea, that don‟t look good for us.
1220. We didn‟t know this was coming -- I didn‟t know this was coming up. It‟s something funny that I‟m trying to pay attention to everything that‟s going on and this one I never knew nothing about it, maybe I was sleeping.
1221. But the thing is that when I was coming down there‟s a couple of people that asked me, is anybody coming down from my community of Fort McPherson; I didn‟t know. I was down here -- I found out last week by somebody telling me that there‟s going to be a meeting here.
1222. So I informed my Chief that this was going to be happening that it‟s on a week and then I got back Friday night and this Elder asked me, is anybody coming down. Their concern about the fish that come from Beaufort Sea.
1223. Yesterday I was coming across the ferry at the Mackenzie River, coming across the ferry, I met another Elder person, gave me the statement, we have to make sure that the fish is protected. I just want to bring this to your attention. Like I say, the presentations, comments that was made from the young people up in Inuvialuit, I
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable Presentation by Mr. Snowshoe
can‟t leave the leader out, Nellie, that are really watching to make sure that if they‟re going to be putting -- doing the drilling out in the ocean that it‟s going to be done right, and I think that‟s what we‟re here for.
1224. But I just want to bring to your attention, and I hope they hear me right now, that I‟m very disappointed that my leaders are not here to hear the meeting that‟s going on. Roundtable you call it but pretty well I could circle right around, I guess that‟s why you call it a Roundtable.
1225. You going by our style, in the traditional way everything we have is round, not square.
1226. Thank you very much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
1227. MR. SWIDERSKI: We‟re glad you‟re here. Thank you for that.
1228. I have the honour of bringing us home and wrapping up a most interesting, engaging day. From our team‟s expectations, you far exceeded them in terms of the level of discussion, the questions, and importantly maybe even more so, the differing views have all been presented with what we talked about this morning which was recognition and respect for other views, and I think you‟ve done that marvellously today.
1229. We‟re in good shape as far as the schedule. We‟re a little bit behind but the speakers talked earlier about making tradeoffs; the value of what was covered this afternoon is well worth just the little adjustments that we‟ll make in the morning on the schedule.
1230. I want to thank everybody who talked today, who shared their ideas. It‟s been a tremendous day. Get some rest. We‟ll see you sharply tomorrow morning at 9:30. We‟ll pick up and we‟ll cover what we‟re going to do today.
1231. Great day today, everybody. Thank you so much.
--- (Applause/Applaudissements)
--- Upon adjourning at 5:00 p.m./La session est ajournée à 17h00
Transcript Arctic Offshore Drilling Roundtable