Title: Thursday, August 29, 1985 hs

August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 177

[Chairman: Mr. Kowalski] [10 a.m.] If not, we'll go directly to questions from committee members. MR. CHAIRMAN: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another meeting of MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Chairman, thank you very the Standing Committee on the Alberta much for the welcome to the committee. It's a Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act. It's our pleasure to be back again. pleasure this morning to welcome the Hon. Fred There have been a number of important Bradley, Minister of the Environment. projects under the capital projects division in If I could refer all members to the Provincial the Department of the Environment. I was very Treasurer's annual report on the Alberta pleased with your opening comments, Heritage Savings Trust Fund, which was issued particularly with regard to the Paddle River in July this year, you'll see on page 43, under basin development, which has come to the capital projects division investments, that completion. The opening last Friday was the Minister of the Environment has ministerial certainly a major event for the people in that portfolio responsibility for four specific areas. area in terms of the benefits to the people. One is called irrigation headworks and main Some 25,000 acres of land will now be protected irrigation systems improvement, and we can see in terms of the flood control dam. I was really a cumulative figure of $201,086,000 to March impressed. In my judgment, there were close to 31, 1985. The second item is the land a thousand people at the opening and there was reclamation project, which expended a great deal of enthusiasm for the project. Of $23,522,000 to March 31, 1985. A third item is course, Mr. Chairman, you were there as the the Lesser Slave Lake outlet. There were no MLA from the downstream constituency. Peter expenditures made in the last fiscal year, but Trynchy, Al Hyland, Stan Nelson, John Gogo, I'm sure the minister would want to report to us and Shirley Cripps were also there, and the on the successful operation of that very former MLA for Barrhead, Dr. Hugh Horner, important outflow of water from the Lesser who was a proponent of the project. Slave Lake that reduces the hazards along the When you have these types of water lake, one of Alberta's best inland seas and management projects, they always seem to be probably the best kept secret. fairly controversial in their fruition. When Lesser Slave Lake, ladies and gentlemen, is they're finally completed and opened and you really an outstanding lake. It's too bad that see the number of people who have come out very few people in Alberta have ever bothered for the opening, who are complimentary to the to go and take a look at it. project and the necessity for it, you know you've made the right decision. I daresay that MRS. CRIPPS: Explain yourself. that project, as Dr. Horner said, will stand for future generations of Albertans in terms of the MR. CHAIRMAN: One of the most exciting benefits that will accrue to that area. It's a projects, the Paddle River basin development very important investment by the Heritage project, with expenditure levels accumulating Savings Trust Fund in the agricultural future of to $40,362,000. that part of the province. Mr. Minister, in welcoming you, you'll note I'd like to make a few comments on the that a number of members of the Heritage Lesser Slave Lake project, which was completed Savings Trust Fund select committee were at a couple of years back. It's now in operation, the damsite last Friday, where we all applauded providing stabilization to the Lesser Slave Lake with you the official opening of that very area. This project was originally contemplated important drainage assistance project. The to cost about $7 million or $8 million and was Paddle River has had a lot of negatives over the completed quite a bit under budget, because the years, but it was certainly very positive on last works which were constructed there were not as Friday with the throngs of people, the smiling elaborate as had been originally suggested. We faces, and the great thank-yous. are now in the phase of monitoring the work At that point, I would sincerely like to say that has been done there to make sure it is welcome to you, Mr. Minister. If you have an achieving the results which were hoped for that overview comment, would you kindly proceed? project, and from reports I've heard to date, it's 178 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985 been successful. Coulee, were completed in the previous year. Under the land reclamation investment, What we are doing in terms of the actual we've done a lot of important work in land main canal is upgrading it from a capacity of reclamation throughout the province in terms of some 650 cubic feet per second to some 1,500 reclaiming landfills, sewage lagoons, and cfs. Work has started on the Keho Lake off- activities related to coal mining, gravel pits, stream storage project. The east dikes and and other industrial activities. I think it's been outlet works are essentially complete, and this very well accepted by the municipalities and year we'll be letting a contract on the citizens throughout the province that we've peripheral roads. It's anticipated that the invested these types of funds to reclaim these project will be completed in the next year. It eyesores and potential environmental problems will raise the level of the lake some six feet and which have existed throughout the province. increase the storage capacity from some 45,000 Earlier this month I circulated to all members acre-feet to some 75,000 acre-feet. It's of the Assembly a report on the activities in anticipated that the LNID project will be their constituencies, outlining the work that has completed totally in the spring of 1989. been done since 1975 with regard to With regard to the St. Mary River Irrigation reclamation work. As I said, I think it's been a District main canal rehabilitation and very successful project, and I know the results enlargement, we have completed some 73 miles in my own constituency have been worth while of the main canal and associated structures out and appreciated. of a total length of some 176 miles and have I should say that as part of this program spent some $66 million on the project to the end approximately $24 million has been expended to of March. This project is scheduled to be date. About $15.5 million of that has been in completed in 1989-90. Also this year, we have direct reclamation; another $7.5 million to $8 advanced the start on the Forty Mile Coulee million has been spent on reclamation research reservoir project. Alan Hyland, the MLA, in the foothills, mountain, plains, and oil sands announced that in Bow Island on August 6, and areas, looking at how best we can reclaim this afternoon he and I will be going down there industrial activities, focussing on coal mining to officiate at the official sod-turning for the and oil sands types of reclamation, very Forty Mile Coulee project. It's 70,000 acre-feet important projects. of offstream storage on the St. Mary's system. Another project which I should report on It was anticipated to cost some $58 million in today is the major project in terms of the 1984 dollars. The tenders for the project in irrigation headworks and main irrigation terms of the main work will be opened in the systems improvement. We've spent some $201 not too distant future. We've advanced million to the end of March on this program and construction by putting out some of the initial anticipate continuing to spend some $60 million work on a request basis to a number of local a year in the next two fiscal years with regard contractors to get the pad laid so that the main to allocations of expenditures. There will be contractor can start work as quickly as further expenditures in the future to complete possible. The project will be completed a year it. earlier than we originally anticipated. With regard to the Lethbridge Northern Also, this year we opened the Crawling Irrigation District's headworks system, we've Valley reservoir project in the Eastern spent some $74 million to the end of March Irrigation District. I believe it was officially 1985 and have reconstructed some 22 of the 50 opened in the first week of June of this year. miles of the main canal in the Lethbridge That project provided a 90,000 acre-foot Northern. We're anticipating spending some $19 internal storage reservoir for the Eastern million in the next fiscal year. As part of this Irrigation District. It was completed in the last project, we've rehabilitated the diversion fiscal year and cost some $5.7 million. headworks on the Oldman River, which are Another project which was completed last located on the Peigan Indian Reserve. We've year was the Badger Lake reservoir in the Bow replaced the flume which crosses the Oldman River Irrigation District. That provided 42,000 River on the Peigan Indian Reserve. The Wolf acre-feet of storage in the Bow River Irrigation Creek flume crossing has been replaced, and District and cost some $13 million. I anticipate two siphons, at Rocky Coulee and Keenex that we'll be officially opening that project in August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 179 the not too distant future. time. We have looked at enhancing what we are currently doing. It was identified as a very MR. R. SPEAKER: Just after the election is important area by the Water Resources called, or before? Commission when it was first formed some three years ago. The commission has MR. BRADLEY We’ll be opening the project undertaken some very important studies with this fall, Ray. I'm not sure it has anything to do regard to drainage and where we should be with other events. doing it. The preliminary work will be Some of the other projects under this completed by them some time later this year. appropriation have been in the special areas. Within the general revenue portion of the The Deadfish diversion project was basically budget of my department, we also have some $5 completed in 1983-84. There was also a million which we are expending on an annual pipeline from the Red Deer River to the basis. Half of that has been based on a cost Sheerness project associated with this project. share with local authorities on a 75/25 basis. That has also been completed. Other work will The other portion of that funding has been 100 be required on other headworks which has been percent provincial funding of major drainage in the planning and engineering stage which we works. phased in over the balance of this appropriation Last year I initiated a major review of our to the 1995 period. That gives you an update as drainage program, which focussed on levels of to where we are today and what has basically expenditure and the question of cost-sharing been planned in the next few years. formulas. We currently have this under The final new project, which was debated in consideration. There’s been a great deal of the House this spring and an appropriation support from MLAs in the northern part of the brought forward for, is the Oldman dam. The province for an enhanced program, and I engineering work is currently in progress, and it appreciate the support I’ve received and the is anticipated it will be completed toward the requests from MLAs in this part of the end of this year or early next year. We province. So we have this matter under active anticipate that we’ll be able to begin review and consideration at this time. construction next year on the Oldman dam project. Reasonable progress has been made to MR. HYLAND: Is the minister expecting any date in terms of acquisition of land. I’ve been funding through the trust fund on an expanded advised this past week that we’ve had drainage project at some point in the future? agreements with some more landowners with Once this initial study from the water regard to purchase of land. We are now in a commission is in, will more detailed work go on, position of having acquired just under 50 or is that going to be the final report? percent of the land required for the project. With that, Mr. Chairman, I welcome MR. BRADLEY: When you look at the questions. requirements in the northern part of the province -- we initiated the northwestern MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. erosion control program and the soil Bradley. We’ll begin with questions from Mr. conservation assistance program earlier, after Hyland. the Member for Lesser Slave Lake brought forward resolutions in this Legislature and MR. HYLAND: Mr. Chairman, my questions are changed cost-sharing formulas. A lot of work related to drainage in the northern part of the has been done; there’s a lot of work that needs province. I wonder if the minister could outline to be done. In particular, when you look at the if anything is being done in drainage similar to scope of what has to be done, what I think the the questions we had yesterday relating to the Water Resources Commission is identifying for 86/14 formula, or do we have a program where us is that there’s going to be a need for a lot of we’re considering drainage under the trust fund? planning to make sure things are done in proper order and proper fashion: that the engineering MR. BRADLEY: That’s a very good question, is done, that we don’t create problems by the Mr. Chairman. Of course, drainage has been a action we take with regard to drainage. So an priority of the government for some period of important part of a drainage program is going 180 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985 to be to do the proper studies in engineering to imagination and think of what it would have ensure that when the work is put out for tender been like if Lethbridge Northern hadn't had for construction, it is going to resolve the anything done and they were still just pounding problems that are there. There's a lot of work stakes down there or something like that. I've that has to be done. got to commend the Department of the No specific funding source has been Environment for starting this several years identified at this time for an enhanced program, ago. There are a lot of people who, although but as I said, this matter is under review and they pay the water rates, have not used consideration at this time. irrigation over the past years. Many people who never had water rights are clamouring to have MR. HYLAND: Thank you. water rights. The Department of the Environment MR. R. MOORE: Mr. Minister, your department monitors the snowpack and the amount of water has an excellent program on reclamation of available. My question is: do you monitor the landfill sites, gravel pits, and so on. It's well amount of water that goes to each irrigation received throughout the province. I see many district? Have you got a handle on that? I examples of this program in the Lacombe really feel that this year some districts have constituency. There's one area I would like to used what their allotment ordinarily would be know about. What level of research is being and probably increased it. done on reclaimed sites to ensure that productivity of the soil is maximized? So often MR. BRADLEY: Yes, the department monitors when we have these sites, it destroys the the flows to each of the irrigation districts. productivity, and I'd like to know what research Each irrigation district is licensed to divert a we have in that field. maximum amount of water, and the flows which are directed from our main headworks MR. BRADLEY: There's a lot of research structures are monitored in conjunction with taking place. I think I identified that under the the terms of those licences. It has not been trust fund allocation there is a component brought to my attention that there's been an which is directly allocated for reclamation allocation greater than that which the licence research. They do test plots and look at requirements permit. productivity, bringing back soils, in the reclamation process, looking particularly at MR. THOMPSON: That's fine. coal mining and industrial areas and bringing I'd like to get back to the capacity and the this land back to productivity equivalent to fact that we are increasing capacity to what it was before or enhancing it. So research distribute water. Because of the situation in is focussing in that area. the last two years in southern Alberta, is there There's also research done in the general any anticipation that you will be accelerating revenue budget. The Alberta Research Council the construction of the Oldman River dam? We is involved. There's a reclamation research task have an example where we have accelerated group, which reviews the projects that should be construction of the Forty Mile reservoir off-site funded, so there is a significant emphasis in storage. I would like to know if there is any that area. consideration being given to accelerating construction. I'm glad to hear what's happened MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to already, but we need to save all the water we spend a little time on irrigation. Anyone who have down there. I would applaud the lived in southern Alberta in the last two years department if they would move quickly in this can't help but realize the importance of the area. irrigation system in that part of the province. It's been a godsend for the whole area, not only MR. BRADLEY: When the Oldman dam project the people on the land but the people in the was initiated and announced last year, funds surrounding communities. Basically, I think were allocated through special warrant in the we've been very fortunate to have started last fiscal year to commence the project so that upgrading the capacity of the irrigation canals the engineering and initial design work could down there in the last few years. I use my proceed in the last fiscal year. In the normal August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 181 process we would have waited until the fill in with other projects which other budgetary process in the spring, and it would municipalities identify in terms of the priority have been this year before the engineering list we've developed. For obvious reasons would have been initiated. We initiated that municipalities welcome the program in terms of process last, year and initiated some purchase of the reclamation of garbage dumps and sewage land through special warrant. lagoons and those types of activities within the The pace at which we can proceed depends municipalities. on the engineering. We've had requests from communities and from people in southern MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Alberta who are involved in the irrigation business who have requested us to review where MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, first of all, we're at with the start-up of the Oldman dam I'd like to echo the words of my colleague from and to look at whether or not we can accelerate Cardston relative to the rehabilitation program construction in terms of the schedule which has and the good effects it's had on the irrigation been looked at at this date. We are reviewing districts. Secondly, I'd say thank you from my that to see whether or not it would be possible constituents in terms of the Badger Lake to proceed any quicker, but it will depend on project. It has proceeded and is completed and the status of the engineering. At this point it's everybody is quite supportive of what has scheduled to be completed later this year or happened there and optimistic as to what can early next year. Once we have the engineering happen in expansion in the next few years. in in terms of the documents for tender, then The question that I'm sure the minister we'll be able to proceed with the projects. continues to raise and will balance and that we We're reviewing that at this time. have to be responsive to in this committee is consideration with regard to drainage in MR. THOMPSON: My third question, Mr. northern Alberta. In my tours of northern Chairman, is to do with land reclamation, which Alberta I find the people in that area feel that the Member for Lacombe was alluding to. I irrigation has certainly received quite a number notice we spent $3 million in the last fiscal of dollars of support from government and that year. My question is: do the local governments there isn't a complementary program or have a real interest in this? Do they make attention in northern Alberta. I think we as application? Have we got more applications legislators should be aware of that concern and than we can handle in general, or is it basically alleviate it in the best possible manner. the Department of the Environment monitoring My questions relate to the Three Rivers and assessing the situation and trying to initiate project, Mr. Chairman, and most of them have these programs? What I'm really asking is how been touched on and answered. I appreciate popular this land reclamation program is with that the minister has said we are possibly going local government. to accelerate the completion date of the Three Rivers site, but maybe I could ask some detailed MR. BRADLEY: It's an extremely popular questions relative to the engineering. Who is program with the municipalities. The project the engineering firm? Is a local firm doing the requests come from them. There is sometimes engineering, or is it a group of firms? I guess it some difficulty in terms of some of the larger didn't go out to tender; it was most likely a projects in particular. We've allocated money, request to complete a proposal. In terms of the for example, for the reclamation of some land acquisition, has the land been acquired for industrial activities; coal mining in the the site of the dam so that the necessary Crownest Pass. There have been long-standing testing and so on can go on? Thirdly, in terms negotiations with the coal companies in terms of land acquisition, I wonder if the minister of the work which we'd like to do. In terms of could review the formula that's being used at the other allocation of funds, basically the the present time, or is it a matter of open municipalities have come forward, and there is negotiation and discussion with each landowner? great interest in terms of the money which we have appropriated now and for the next years in MR. BRADLEY: Is that the sum of your first terms of work that can be done. If there are question? projects which aren't proceeding, we attempt to 182 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985

MR. R. SPEAKER: No, that's all three of them. which are the roadworks in and around the reservoir itself, were awarded to Stanley M R. BRADLEY: Okay. Associates. They're both Alberta firms. There was substantial involvement in the proposals MR. R. SPEAKER: I'll just need a from both firms by a number of other supplementary. consultants that operate in the province, so an emphasis was placed on spreading the work MR. BRADLEY: I think I elaborated, in terms around amongst as many engineering firms as of the question from the Member for Cypress, possible. on where we're at with drainage, the review Basically, with regard to the land acquisition, that's taking place, and the priority that's been we have purchased the land which is necessary placed with the studies the Water Resources in the area of the damsite itself, and lands have Commission has been doing the past number of been acquired upstream in the reservoir area. years. This is one of the first areas they As I said, I've been advised that agreements identified which required more work. I think have been put in place with landowners, that we I've gone through that. We have the whole have somewhat less than 50 percent of the land question of our drainage programs under review, required for the project at this time, with the the funding and the cost-sharing formula. agreements which have been signed in the last I should emphasize that we have done work in number of days. the north since the Hon. Larry Shaben brought Negotiations are proceeding on the basis of forward his resolution and the northwest erosion the same land acquisition principles that were control program commenced. I had the used in the Dickson dam land acquisition. A list privilege a week ago Monday of officially of principles has been circulated to opening the Namepi-Kennedy drainage project, landowners. We have proceeded with in the county of Thorhild. I was very impressed negotiations with landowners who have by the work done there. It was an eight-year approached us at this point and wish to project that was 100 percent funded by the undertake negotiations. There are lands that province, some $8.2 million. In that particular we will require, but we aren't able to identify area, some 625 square miles is affected by this the actual amount of land we require until the project and the improved drainage along some engineering is completed and the detailed 40 miles, I would estimate, of both Namepi surveying is done. But any landowner who Creek and Kennedy Creek. So there is work wanted to negotiate, not knowing where that being done. final take-line would be, was looking at perhaps The Paddle River project, of course, is selling us land in excess of what we would another one in terms of drainage, which is actually require. We have undertaken those important in flood control. As I said, we are negotiations at the individual's request. We reviewing it. We're placing a priority on it, and have stated to landowners that we were willing we'll be coming to some decisions at the to negotiate on the basis of only the amount of appropriate time on where we'll be proceeding land required for the project or on the basis of with enhancement or otherwise. We have that the nearest quarter line or, if the impact of the under active consideration. project was such that it had an undesirable I didn't say today that we were accelerating impact on the landowner's entire operation, that the completion of the Oldman dam project. I we would negotiate to purchase the entire said that we had under review whether or not operation. that would be possible in terms of where the That's basically the basis under which engineering was. negotiations are proceeding at this point. They With regard to the engineers for the Oldman are being conducted by the Department of dam project, we put out requests for a proposal Public Works, Supply and Services. last fall and advertised it publicly. I believe it was in October. We had a selection committee MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, I'll stop which reviewed the requests which came in. there. I unloaded all three on the first shot. Underwood McLellan was awarded the project for the dam itself. We split it into two MR. COOK: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask a few components. The reservoir-related works, questions about the Lesser Slave Lake project August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 183

and the silting program. Has the minister approach to this. As I've said, it will take a considered doing any studies on whether or not considerable amount of preplanning to initiate we should be developing marginal northern soils, further programs in this area. which are subject to erosion and which by their nature will probably require this kind of MR. COOK: Thank you. expenditure in the future? I realize that a study was filed by Dr. Bentley, recently of the MRS. CRIPPS: Mr. Chairman, I want to make a University of Alberta, on the very delicate comment first, because I really do believe that nature of northern soils, and he recommended water is our most important resource. I know that the government of Alberta not proceed you've indicated that some people are uptight with opening up further agricultural land in before some of the projects are started but northern Alberta unless studies were undertaken really appreciate the value of the project once to see what kinds of soil conservation it's developed. I am of the belief that some of techniques would be most suited to the area. the present generation who will have to be Has the department considered that in light of moved in the face of a project probably will its ultimate responsibility for constructing never forgive us, but I also firmly believe that projects like the Lesser Slave Lake project? future generations would never forgive us if we didn't continue with the projects. I endorse the MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Chairman, I have some judicial examination and development of water difficulty relating the question to the Lesser control projects, especially effective utilization Slave Lake project. of the water in our province. Frankly, I don't think we emphasize the importance of water MR. COOK: Why is that? As I understand it, enough, and I'd like to see the minister become Mr. Chairman, the Lesser Slave Lake project more vocal about the importance of it; i.e., was designed to dredge some silt that had built generally, as opposed to being specific about up, preventing drainage into the lake. Is that dams. I think we take it for granted. The last not the case? two years have illustrated that lack of water is extremely crucial to this province. MR. BRADLEY: It was to stabilize the level of A couple of questions on the Slave Lake Lesser Slave in terms of the outflow and work project have been asked. I want to know about which was being done there. the number of acres. It's absolutely flat, With regard to the second part of the beautiful land, as I remember, coming out in the question, the work which the Water Resources water protection area that the outlet is Commission is doing is looking specifically at supposedly preserving from flooding. How the question of where drainage is needed and effective has that project been to date? Is required. I've alluded to the fact that there much more extensive use of the land proceeding with drainage projects on a larger downstream from that project now? scale in northern Alberta requires a lot of planning to ensure that what is being done and MR. BRADLEY: I think I alluded to the fact the soils in which this is taking place are that we're monitoring the impact of the works. appropriate. I haven't been appraised, other than in a The whole question of opening up more land preliminary way, in terms of the specific which in the north is part of . . . As I understand it, you ask, but I could have that looked into and perhaps the question should be more properly report back to you. directed to the minister of Public Lands and Wildlife. He has a process, through the MRS. CRIPPS: Thank you. integrated management planning process, in his program where these questions on the impact of MR. ZIP: Mr. Chairman, first of all, in a very opening up new lands are looked at. Drainage is general way I want to congratulate the work part of it. Our department and other done by the hon. Minister of the Environment, departments are involved -- Transportation -- in not only with the heritage trust fund moneys identifying lands to be opened up and what the but overall. In my longtime residency in costs are and what the potential problems may Alberta I've seen a lot of improvements made. I be. So that is all considered in the overall have also greatly appreciated the increased 184 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985 appreciation of the value of our water which would take place. What we're really resources, the importance of water dealing with is pre-1963 types of developments. management, and the directions that are being You specifically mentioned Nose Creek. I taken, not only in the area of irrigation but also have to admit lack of knowledge of the specific in flood control and water management. impacts of Nose Creek and whether that is pre- Looking at land reclamation, we have 1963 or what the nature of the developments problem areas in this respect, largely due to are. Is it a gravel pit type of development? what has happened in the past, something that we're saddled with at the present time. How MR. ZIP: What happened was that Nose Creek much of that $24 million out of the heritage was ditched, what you would call gutted. The trust fund has been spent on land reclamation appearance has been left in a very, very around Calgary? unnatural state as a result of that ditching of Nose Creek, from a point somewhere around the MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Chairman, I circulated a northern city limits of Calgary going down report to all members which basically explained toward the river. the projects in their constituencies. In terms of Calgary and Edmonton members I lumped the MR. BRADLEY: I'd have to check on that projects within the city boundaries as an specific item, note that you've raised it and see aggregate total. whether or not it would fit within the terms of Within Calgary itself there has not been a our project guidelines. We have to consider who great number of projects. Within a city you the landowners are, whether they wish to would not expect to have the types of projects initiate a project, who was responsible for the initiated that you would have outside in the initial ditching you've referred to, and see rural areas where there have been greater whether it's eligible or whether the city wishes impacts in terms of development. There has to bring it forward as a project they'd like us to been one project in Calgary for some $195,000 consider. out of a total of $15.2 million for projects in land reclamation itself. MR. ZIP: Thank you.

MR. ZIP: A further question. I raised the MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, my question matter of Nose Creek valley when the hon. is with regard to the report the minister is using Minister of Recreation and Parks appeared in terms of constituency analysis. I don't see it before this committee. I wish to raise it again in my book. I was just wondering, did all the with respect to this valley's being a ‘ good members of the Legislature get it? candidate for land reclamation and beautification in order to enhance the MR. BRADLEY: Yes, I forwarded them. I'm appearance of this valley within Calgary, not sure when your office would have received particularly as you get closer to the Bow them. I forwarded them August 23. River. Some of the areas are very, very unsightly. I'd like to have the minister's MR. R. SPEAKER: Maybe my secretary placed response to that. them it into my book.

MR. BRADLEY: In terms of this program, MR. BRADLEY: I think they were forwarded to we're looking at municipally owned your office yesterday, Ray. I remember that I developments; say, a landfill or a municipally signed some of them and others I signed just owned gravel pit, those types of things. We're lately. There should be a report on your prepared to assist municipalities in terms of constituency. We've spent some $483,000 in those types of projects. Little Bow on some 15 projects. There is a cut-off date in this program. Basically, 1963 is the date which reclamation MR. R. SPEAKER: Thank you. legislation came into place, and there were some updates in requirements in the early '70s. MR. BRADLEY: Just for the information of the All industrial projects past those dates are Member for Spirit River-Fairview, we've spent responsible themselves for the reclamation some $295,000 on some 26 projects. There August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 185 should be a detailed report that was sent to you. identify those. I have requests from the minister at that time to identify projects in my MR. GURNETT: Just one more question. I constituency, and municipalities were asked to want to ask the minister about land identify projects. So that initial evaluation has reclamation, also. In view of its mandate and been done. I can't give you a figure today as to the pre-1963 projects you just explained, is how many have been done or how many there any picture at this point of how much outstanding requests there are. more work there is to do in that area? Have In terms of industrial reclamation, the major the projects finished up most of the sites that one that I'm aware of is in my own constituency exist in the province that date from that period, with the coal-mining developments. We've had or is there going to be considerably more work outstanding negotiations on a particularly large done? coal pile which have not yet come to any conclusion, because of the difficulties MR. BRADLEY: We are still receiving associated with the wishes of the current applications from municipalities, and pre-63 owners of the piles, et cetera. It's been a really deals with industrial types of difficult process. That's the major outstanding developments where you can't identify an owner one I'm aware of. There are some larger gravel or where a company is no longer in existence or pits that we've negotiated on with some of the has transferred hands. urban municipalities and which are ongoing too. In terms of municipalities themselves, for example, we've had a regional sanitary landfill MR. GURNETT: So when you talk about program. A number of municipalities are negotiations on these land reclamation projects, closing their smaller landfills or garbage dumps, is there an effort to identify some responsible and that activity is going on today. So a party and do a cost-shared basis as you municipality may be abandoning a landfill this approach the land reclamation? Or does this year, for example. Those types of projects program cover the entire cost regardless of would be acceptable under this program. whether you can identify who is responsible? It seems there is an ongoing need for reclamation programs as municipalities close MR. BRADLEY: Since there was no legislation garbage dumps or open new sewage lagoon which required any reclamation prior to 1963, projects. They have been making use of this those past industrial activities would qualify. funding under the heritage fund to reclaim sewage lagoons, et cetera. As you know, over MR. CHAIRMAN: Would there be additional the last five years we've had a massive program questions forthcoming from committee to assist municipalities in upgrading their water members? Mr. Bradley, may we thank you very and sewage works. We've reclaimed water much for the overview this morning and the reservoirs and things like that under this continued progress in the four major items program too. It seems that there is an ongoing under your portfolio management funded by the need for this type of assistance from the Heritage Savings Trust Fund. province. MR. BRADLEY: Thank you very much. MR. GURNETT: Just to follow up a bit then. Is there, though, any inventory of the industrial MR. CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, when sites that date from before 1963? Do you have we met the other day, we indicated that if any picture of how many of these sites there there were any interest, we might continue the are in the province? discussion on recommendations this morning. Is there any further input? MR. BRADLEY: I think most of those initiated by municipalities have come to our attention. I MR. COOK: Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I might don't have a specific figure on those, but most abuse my rights to propose recommendations of them deal with abandoned coal mine sites and propose one more, if that's in order. and that type of reclamation. We have a general list of those. As I recollect, when I was MR. CHAIRMAN: It's certainly in order. first elected in '75, we asked municipalities to 186 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985

MR. COOK: I'd like to ask the committee to "villages" also include summer villages? I don't recommend the construction of low-cost know what the status is of Chestermere Lake, research lab space to be made available to the for example, whether it's a summer village or private sector on a contract basis, modelled on what. There are people living there all the a successful North Carolina research park, the time. Triangle research park, in Durham. Mr. Chairman, if I could just give members a quick MR. HYLAND: It’s a village. idea of what that is, the state of North Carolina built research lab space which it lets out to MR. NELSON: It's not a summer village; it's a companies on an at-cost or below-cost basis. village. They've succeeded in attracting to the state companies like General Electric, Northern MR. ZIP: That's a matter of clarification. Telecom, and a variety of biotech companies. In doing that, they've assembled a critical mass MRS. CRIPPS: Mr. Chairman, I wasn't thinking of research activity and scientists who can then in terms of summer villages. Most of them are go and form their own little independent basically recreational areas, and that's the companies and access lab space. purpose of their establishment. I believe the The Alberta Research Council had two small benefits of the program would be well used in labs in the new research building that were towns and villages throughout the province. surplus to its needs. They let out a request for proposals to the private sector for use of those MR. CHAIRMAN: Any additional comments? labs. They were inundated with requests for lab I think it's really important that those space. It's very difficult to set up a high- members of the committee who have made quality research lab. The long and short of it is suggestions with respect to recommendations that there are a lot of little inventors and take the ideas of the recommendation and companies in Alberta who badly need access to formalize them into a statement that all these kinds of facilities. There are existing members can deal with. Perhaps when we models in other states that show that this is a reconvene on Wednesday, September 4 -- we'll successful kind of role to kick-start the be meeting with Mr. Johnston at 10 o'clock in research community, and we have the people the morning -- you might formally read into the here who would take advantage of it. So I'd like record the recommendation you want to make. to suggest that we fund low-cost research lab The other day and again this morning individual space on a contract basis to the private sector. members talked about ideas, but in order to bring it to a formative debate within the MR. CHAIRMAN: It's now been read into the context of the committee, I think the record for the first time. Any comments to Mr. statements should begin and end, so all Cook at this point in time? Would there be members will know exactly what they can additional recommendations forthcoming? debate with. I'll leave it with you to work out the wording of your individual MRS. CRIPPS: Given that the urban parks recommendations. If you would be prepared to program is drawing to a close and this is for come back, then I think it would be much easier most of them the final year of the program, I to deal with it rather than with just an idea. would like to recommend that the committee Would there be additional items for the endorse the use of moneys from the trust fund committee to consider this morning? for the creation of an urban parks program for towns and villages of Alberta. MR. R. MOORE: I move that we adjourn.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That's an additional MR. CHAIRMAN: We have a motion for recommendation. Would there be additional adjournment. We'll accept that. We'll recommendations forthcoming at this point in reconvene on Wednesday, September 4. We'll time? have Mr. Johnston in the morning. We have a scheduled meeting in the afternoon at 2 MR. ZIP: With regard to the recommendation o'clock. The subject is discussion of of the hon. Member for Drayton Valley, would recommendations. Next Thursday, September August 29, 1985 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act 187

5, we have the Hon. Larry Shaben, Minister of Housing, appearing before the committee. Thank you very much for the excellent work this week. It's been a long week. May you have a good weekend.

[The committee adjourned at 10:58 a.m] 188 Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act August 29, 1985