Transcript – 29Th July 2021
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Day 28 Open Session Jermaine Baker Inquiry- Main Hearings 29 July 2021 1 Thursday, 29 July 2021 1 Q. In terms of command and control, you are an operational 2 (10.00 am) 2 and tactical firearms commander, and you have performed 3 (The Inquiry began in closed session) 3 the role of firearms tactical adviser at all levels of 4 (11.45 am) 4 competence for in excess of 12 years? 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon -- no, good morning. 5 A. That is correct, yes. 6 MS BLACKWELL: We are almost in the afternoon, session, sir. 6 Q. You have also been a firearms instructor for the past 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. 7 11 years, conducting firearms training between 8 MS BLACKWELL: May the witness be sworn, please? 8 operational deployments at various ranks prior to taking 9 THE CHAIRMAN: He may. 9 the role of CFI in November 2019? 10 MR PHILIP TAYLOR (sworn) 10 A. That's correct, yes. 11 Questions from MS BLACKWELL 11 Q. In addition to being the MPS CFI, you are also the CFI 12 MS BLACKWELL: Please sit down. 12 responsible for the national explosive method of entry 13 Thank you, is your full name Philip Taylor? 13 and national counter-terrorism specialist firearms 14 A. That's correct, yes. 14 officer network training being delivered across the UK? 15 Q. You are the chief firearms instructor for the 15 A. That's correct, yes. 16 Metropolitan Police Service? 16 Q. Thank you. 17 A. That's correct, yes. 17 In your capacity as the MPS CFI, you are responsible 18 Q. You have been a firearms officer for 13 years? 18 for the quality assurance and authorisation of all 19 A. That is correct, yes. 19 firearms and Taser training delivered by accredited 20 Q. In that time you have performed the role of 20 firearms and Taser instructors within the MPS? 21 an operational armed response vehicle officer? 21 A. Yes. 22 A. Yes. 22 Q. That involves confirming that courses are College of 23 Q. And counter-terrorism specialist firearms officer, from 23 Policing and National Firearms Training Curriculum 24 the rank of sergeant to chief inspector? 24 compliant, and that the training achieves the criteria 25 A. That's correct. 25 required to fulfil each particular armed role profile, Page 1 Page 2 1 and MPS firearms training is also externally moderated, 1 A. Would you just like me to read them out or short 2 quality assured and licensed through the College of 2 description of what they are as well? 3 Policing? 3 Q. A short description would be very helpful? 4 A. That's correct, sir. 4 A. AFO protective security is for example those officers 5 Q. You have provided a witness statement to the inquiry, 5 that might be protecting particular premises like law 6 dated 15 June of this year, and I am going to invite 6 houses or diplomatic premises. 7 you, please, to look at paragraph 6 of that witness 7 Aviation security is, as you might imagine, at 8 statement, and I am going to ask that we display pages 2 8 Heathrow Airport. 9 and 3, please, Mr Coates, of MPS4497. 9 Mounted armed escort is a unique skill in relation 10 Thank you. 10 to specialist kind of events where they might need 11 Before we turn to paragraph 6, at paragraph 5 you 11 support. 12 state: 12 Special escort group is again another group of armed 13 "The MPS firearms unit, SCO19, is responsible for 13 officers that provide escort on motorbikes for royals 14 delivering all initial courses and continuation training 14 and diplomatic members. 15 to approximately 2,850 authorised firearms officers 15 Then we have close protection officer, which is 16 across a number of role profiles and operational command 16 effectively many will know them as bodyguards that 17 units." 17 protect for example the Prime Minister and the Queen. 18 A. That's correct, sir, yes. 18 I also provide the governance and training for armed 19 Q. Then at paragraph 6 you say that as CFI you hold 19 surveillance officers, which obviously there has been 20 responsibility and governance for the delivery of 20 discussion of in the inquiry so far. 21 training in respect of the following role profiles. 21 Q. Yes. 22 Can you please take us through the role profiles 22 A. Armed response vehicle officers, again they are the 23 that you set out on the following pages? 23 uniformed officers that respond to the day-to-day calls. 24 A. Okay. 24 Standard MASTS officers, which is a covert response 25 Q. Thank you. 25 which I think we have discussed. Page 3 Page 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Epiq Europe Ltd www.epiqglobal.com Lower Ground, 20 Furnival Street (+44)207 4041400 [email protected] London, EC4A 1JS Day 28 Open Session Jermaine Baker Inquiry- Main Hearings 29 July 2021 1 Q. Yes. 1 And the command role profiles? 2 A. Specialist firearms officer, which is a precursor really 2 A. So, a long list here, and I will go through each one, 3 to counter-terrorist specialist firearms officer, which 3 but there is one specific one that I need to spend 4 is our kind of highest tier of trained officer. 4 a little bit of time perhaps describing, so we are 5 Q. Yes, and those different role profiles that you have 5 responsible for the operational firearms commanders, the 6 read out, just to confirm that baseline MPS role 6 initial tactical firearms commanders, cadre tactical 7 profiles, is that the basic training? 7 firearms commanders, some people refer to CTSFO 8 A. Yes, so there are two things going on, sir, if I may. 8 ground-assigned tactical commanders, firearms tactical 9 There is a national guidance in terms of the 9 advisers, post-incident managers. 10 absolute minimum that is required. 10 The only unique one in that list is I have 11 Then I think as has been alluded to in previous 11 responsibility for all courses, other than strategic 12 evidence, there is a strategic threat and risk 12 firearms courses which are delivered directly by the 13 assessment for each force and each force then looks at 13 College of Policing. 14 that strategic threat and then considers what additional 14 Q. Right, thank you. 15 skills we might like to give our officers. A good 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Why are the SFCs and TFCs in italics? 16 example might be that if there was a county devoid of 16 A. I think that was just to remind me, sir, to point that 17 water, we might not focus on maritime skills but of 17 out, I think. 18 course in London, where we have the Thames, we do focus 18 THE CHAIRMAN: I see, all right. Well you have done. 19 on that area. 19 MS BLACKWELL: Moving on to issuing and armoury role 20 Q. Understood, thank you. 20 profiles, please. 21 You then list three additional skills profiles, what 21 A. A number of skill sets here, this is police weapons 22 are those? 22 issuing officer, which is often police staff rather than 23 A. National rifle officer, tactical rifle officer and our 23 police officers, police weapons, maintainer and police 24 ability to train instructors to deliver that training. 24 armourer. 25 Q. Thank you. 25 Q. Thank you. Page 5 Page 6 1 Mr Coates, please could we move page 3 across and 1 the policies and reference materials for firearms 2 display it together with page 4 now. Thank you. 2 training that are currently in use. I would like you to 3 Taser role profiles? 3 take us through those please. I will indicate, sir, 4 A. Yes, that's right, so obviously Taser can now not only 4 where they appear in our hard copy bundle, if it is of 5 be deployed in a firearms context but also as 5 assistance. 6 a standalone option. Those officers for example on 6 First of all, APP on armed policing, we can see this 7 front-line policing have specially trained officers, 7 behind tabs 3 to 26 in our bundle. This document is 8 also Taser instructors, Taser lead instructors, Taser 8 actually produced and owned by the College of Policing, 9 technicians, Taser downloaders and issuing officers, 9 isn't it? 10 and, again, particular to perhaps significant public 10 A. That's correct, yes. 11 unrest, is AEP, in relation to what is sometimes 11 Q. As you set out in paragraph 8(a)(i) it is a live 12 referred to as the baton gun in perhaps a significant 12 document and is regularly updated electronically on the 13 public order incident. 13 College of Policing secure website used to store 14 Q. What is a Taser downloader? 14 training materials. 15 A. It is effectively the ability to teach our staff to 15 Is there any sort of indication provided to officers 16 connect the Taser to a computer, which effectively tells 16 that there has been an update of the APP? 17 us everything about its usage, how long it was used for, 17 A. Yes, so there are two parts to that, there is the public 18 for example, how long the laser was on for, pretty much 18 domain APP, and then there is also this version, which 19 everything about it.