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Tuesday Volume 700 7 September 2021 No. 42

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 7 September 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 131 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 132

wise words of the former shadow Chancellor, the hon. House of Commons Member for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds), who said in 2018 that Tuesday 7 September 2021 “we would obviously welcome tightening in the area of disguised remuneration schemes…We are concerned that the measures in … The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock the Bill do not go far enough There should be no excuse”— these are her words— PRAYERS “for people not to be aware of the situation”.––[Official Report, Finance (No. 2) Public Bill Committee, 9 January 2018; c. 30.] I am afraid that she was right about that. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] James Murray ( North) (Lab/Co-op): The Conservative Government’s approach to the loan charge Oral Answers to Questions means that ordinary people who are victims of mis-selling are suffering financial ruin and personal harm. Ministers will have heard some harrowing accounts of people TREASURY pushed to the very brink and worse, some even tragically taking their own lives.This cannot be what the Government envisaged and a new approach is urgently needed. Will The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked— the Treasury now review the loan charge scheme and Loan Charge: Bankruptcy the approach of HMRC to prevent further devastating consequences? 1. Ruth Cadbury ( and ) (Lab): What recent estimate he has made of the number of Jesse Norman: As I have said, both the Government people subject to the loan charge who have been declared and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs take these bankrupt. [903235] cases extremely seriously, which is why HMRC has put in place extra care and support for people who may be Mr Speaker: I call the Minister. affected by tax issues of this and other kinds. The fact remains that we have had a review. I might refer the The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): hon. Gentleman to the words of his colleague, the hon. Good morning to you, Mr Speaker. It is great to be in a Member for North (Wes Streeting), who said of Chamber that is 100% full strength after so many Sir Amyas Morse who did the review that it was months. If I may make a personal note without undue “a thorough piece of work…we thank him…He has done a great deference, Mr Speaker, I will say that I thoroughly service to Parliament and to the wider public debate.––[Official appreciated your remarks about standards within the Report, Finance Public Bill Committee, 4 June 2020; c. 33.] Chamber. He was right about that and the Labour party has been To date, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has not right not to have opposed this policy at any point initiated insolvency proceedings against any taxpayer during its passage through Parliament. for a loan charge debt. No estimate can be provided for the number of people who have fallen into debt or who Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): The problem have been declared bankrupt and are subject to the loan that Members have on both sides of this House is that charge because, where debts arise, HMRC is not always ordinary people were duped into something and it has the only creditor. Some individuals are declared bankrupt effectively become a retrospective piece of legislation. I as a result of a non-HMRC debt and some may choose thought the way that the shadow Minister, the hon. to enter insolvency themselves based on their overall Member for Ealing North (James Murray), approached financial position. this was very reasonable. HMRC is not taking the right approach. Perhaps the Government could look at that Ruth Cadbury: We know that there are many, many again. thousands of nurses, social workers and other public sector workers who have been caught up in the loan Jesse Norman: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. charge. They took work via agencies that basically told I have mentioned the extra care and support that HMRC them, “Sign here or you don’t get the work.” Checking has put in place. I have mentioned the extremely careful to see whether they would be liable for the loan charge approach that it has taken with people who may be was not an option. Last week, the Yorkshire Post reported facing the loan charge. As he will be aware, it has not that a number of former services personnel had been initiated insolvency proceedings against any taxpayer affected and that one is feeling suicidal as a direct result. for a loan charge debt and that in itself is emblematic of What does the Minister say to this veteran and the the care and attention that it is taking with this subject. thousands of other public servants whose lives have been turned upside down by this retrospective taxation? Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): It is not enough for the Minister to say that people had to take responsibility Jesse Norman: I thank the hon. Lady for her question. for their own tax affairs when the information that they Taxation is often a difficult matter for the relatively were given by HMRC was that there was nothing wrong small number of individuals who may be affected by with these schemes initially, when HMRC passed and particular pressures. Of course the Government recognise signed off tax years for people, and when the head of and understand that, but it is nevertheless the case—it is HMRC has admitted that, in recent months, he had indeed a foundational principle of the tax system—that repeatedly tried—this was the outcome of a freedom of people should be responsible for their own tax returns. information request—to obtain legal analysis to understand If I may, I would like to refer the hon. Lady to the very the strength of a claim with “very little success”. There 133 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 134 is not even a legal standing for this. How then can the Alan Brown: In 2016, the Tories promised that fuel Minister say that it is right to pursue people for things bills would be lower for everyone on leaving the EU. that they were led into, and, indeed, for payments that The reality is that fuel bills are increasing while they HMRC was regularising by allowing contractors to use make the heartless cut to universal credit. In order to as a means of paying their employees? tackle fuel poverty, will the Minister use the net zero review to cut VAT on energy efficiency products, keep Jesse Norman: The right hon. Gentleman raises a new nuclear off electricity bills, provide direct funding whole bunch of questions. Let me address them. There for heat decarbonisation and sort out the unfair grid were some contractors working through agencies for charges on Scottish renewables? HMRC. Where it was discovered that they had used disguised remuneration, those relationships were ended Steve Barclay: Well, I think we should look at what and strong measures have been put in place to prevent my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has done. I touched recurrence. That is an unfortunate feature of the extended a moment ago on how the covid measures have protected way in which these contract arrangements sometimes the poorest working households the most. Alongside work. I do not think that there is any evidence that that, the Budget measures on tax, welfare and spending HMRC has signed off or positively approved the use of decisions made since 2019 have, on average, benefited any disguised remuneration scheme. If the right hon. all households this year, with the poorest gaining the Gentleman has an example, he is welcome to send it to most as a percentage of net income. That is the approach me. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has taken and chief executive of HMRC has specifically written to the it is one that the Scottish Government should follow. loan charge and taxpayer fairness all-party parliamentary group to make it perfectly clear that it has taken those Patricia Gibson: According to Save the Children, remarks out of context and that what he was doing—as more than 3 million children living in low-income every chief executive of a public agency should do—was households across the are likely to be putting his own officials under some pressure to provide affected by the £20 universal credit cut, with half of the justification needed, and rightly so. claimants saying that they will face significant financial impacts as a result and one in seven worrying about Living Standards affording food. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation says that the cut will push 500,000 people below the poverty 2. Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): What recent line. Will the Minister explain how this squares with the assessment he has made of the effect of his policies on Government’s so-called levelling-up agenda? living standards. [903236] Steve Barclay: A key way to tackle poverty is to get 5. Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): people into work and then skill them up in their jobs. What recent assessment he has made of the effect of his That is what we have set out through the plan for jobs, policies on living standards. [903239] and that plan is working. Ultimately, if that is the priority of the Scottish Government, why are they not 10. Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): using the powers they have to prioritise it? What recent assessment he has made of the effect of his policies on living standards. [903244] Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is difficult to justify raising The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay): national insurance to fund social care for the predominantly Her Majesty’s Treasury analysis published alongside elderly, when the impact of that tax rise would fall Budget ’21 has shown that policy interventions in response mainly on young people and those who are earning to covid-19 have, on average, supported the poorest little in the workforce? Does he also recognise that those working households most as a proportion of pre-pandemic two groups are the very groups that have been most income. impacted by the economic consequences of the pandemic?

Owen Thompson: The Government’s plan to increase Steve Barclay: As my right hon. Friend knows, the national insurance will clearly unfairly impact the living Prime Minister will make a statement on this matter standards of young people and the low paid. That is in shortly, but what he and I would agree on is that the stark contrast to the Scottish Government’sfree education, best way is to grow the economy, drive productivity, get bus travel for under-25s and the Scottish child payment. people into work and skill them up through work. That Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm how many Ministers is what the plan for jobs is doing, alongside the £600 billion spoke against this move at Cabinet today and whether investment in infrastructure over the course of this this included the Scottish Secretary? Parliament as part of levelling up and our commitment to net zero. We need to grow the economy, skill up the Steve Barclay: I would have thought that, having workforce and get those who have been impacted by the sought additional powers, the hon. Gentleman would pandemic back into work as quickly as possible. be more interested in reminding the House how his own Government are using the powers that they have. The Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I wonder key issue is that in many areas they are choosing not to if the Chief Secretary has had the opportunity to read a use their tax powers—for example, to top up universal recent report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies that credit. He should focus on the alliance that his party has says: formed with the Greens, which is bad for business, bad “Material living standards held up surprisingly well through for the economy, bad for the oil and gas industry, and the pandemic…This is an astonishing outcome given the scale of counterproductive to growth. economic disruption”. 135 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 136

Steve Barclay: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. living standards. The key is to have a plan and to get The package of measures that my right hon. Friend the that plan working; it is, and that is helping people back Chancellor took improved on the economic scoring into work. that was forecast for the pandemic, including the figure for unemployment, which will now be 2 million lower at Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Can my its peak than was estimated. That package of measures right hon. Friend comment on the living standards of has helped to prevent many of the worst outcomes that those thousands of public sector employees to whom were forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility as the Government have given exit payments in excess of we went into the pandemic. £100,000 a year and continue so to do?

Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): Steve Barclay: My hon. Friend is right to highlight One group whose living standards have been impacted this issue, which he and I have discussed on many during the pandemic has been low-income individuals occasions. In July I chaired a roundtable on it across who have used buy now, pay later credit products to buy Government, and it is prioritised across Departments. online. I very much welcome the Government’s We have a manifesto commitment that the Chancellor announcement in the spring of regulation of this sector. and I are committed to delivering on. As my hon. Will the Minister update me on the progress being made Friend knows, we have a £200 million cost to this that in regulating the sector given that it is become of we need to tackle. But at the same time we also need to increasing importance, as Citizens Advice reported just be true to the manifesto, which was not about tackling last week? those on low incomes who had high pay-offs because of the way their pension benefits were structured and Steve Barclay: I understand that by the end of October those proprietary claims. Weneed to differentiate between there will be reassurance on that, and I am happy to that and the real ill that he is concerned about, which is take that up with my hon. Friend following this session. those on six-figure salaries who are receiving pay-offs. That is something we are prioritising.

Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) Mr Speaker: I am not quite sure if that related to the (Lab): When the Chancellor increased universal credit original question, so we are going to have to watch out eighteen months ago, he said that he wanted for that in future. “to look back…and remember how we thought first of others and acted with decency.” Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): Scottish Does the Minister consider that taking £20 a week from hospitality and generosity is world-renowned, but could millions of families across our country is really an act of the Minister explain to us why he thinks that Scottish decency? taxpayers should pay for England’s social care crisis?

Steve Barclay: I think that £400 billion of support in Steve Barclay: It is a slightly odd question, because response to the covid pandemic across our public services through the broad shoulders of the United Kingdom, it and individual businesses shows the scale of measures is Scottish jobs that have been protected through the that the Chancellor has put in place. On the specific furlough, it is Scottish businesses that have been supported issue of universal credit, we were always clear that the through the self-employment income support scheme uplift was going to be temporary. As it was, my right and it is the block grant that has provided additional hon. Friend the Chancellor extended it for a further funding to the Scottish Government. The oddity is that six months. But ultimately what divides the two sides of they are choosing not to use those uplifts in the Scottish the House is that we believe the best approach is to have grant to prioritise the things that they come down to a plan for jobs, to get people into work, and to upskill and say they care about. them in those jobs. The Opposition simply do not have a plan at all. Mr Speaker: Can I just suggest to the Minister that it might be easier if he speaks through the Chair? Bridget Phillipson: Let us think about what £20 a week really means. Twenty pounds a week means being Alison Thewliss: It would be good if the Minister able to afford to buy a coat for your children this winter. answered the question, as well. The Prime Minister’s It means not having to worry about turning on the hike in national insurance has been roundly panned, heating when the weather turns cold. Can the Minister not least by his own Back Benchers and the Chair of the offer any advice to families who work hard and play by Treasury Committee, the right hon. Member for Central the rules about how they should manage with £100 less Devon (Mel Stride). People in Scotland are already each and every month? feeling the pain of a decade of Tory austerity cuts and the harms caused by Brexit, with the devastation of the £20 a week cut to universal credit still to come, none of Steve Barclay: As the hon. Lady knows, alongside the which they voted for. Why should my constituents pay universal credit uplift other measures of support were for the Prime Minister to break his manifesto pledge given. Those are not only my words; I quote the Resolution with a new poll tax on the poorest who can least Foundation, which has said: afford it? “Since the crisis hit, the support schemes introduced by the Government have prevented an unprecedented collapse in GDP Steve Barclay: It may be helpful for me to remind the from turning into a living standards disaster.” House of the uplift in funding that the Scottish Government That is the package of measures put forward by the have received as a result of the ability of the UK Government. That is how we have protected people’s Government to act across the UK. Baseline funding of 137 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 138

£28 billion last year with an additional £8.6 billion of Bambos Charalambous: The recent Climate Change funding—that is £36.6 billion in total—has increased to Committee progress report showed that the Treasury £40.9 billion this year, so the Scottish Government are had not fully met a single one of its recommendations getting additional funding. As a result of covid, they in the past year. Does the Minister think this is good have received an additional £14.5 billion, but they are enough, and what steps should be taken to rectify that? choosing not to prioritise that extra money or to use the additional powers they have on tax or welfare to target Kemi Badenoch: I am afraid I do not think that is the issues they say they care about. what the report has said. What I will say is that we will be releasing many publications this autumn around net Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): At zero, not least the net zero review. This final report will the beginning of this pandemic, like most people I was be published in advance of COP26. The report will really worried that unemployment would rise by millions, inform sectoral decarbonisation strategies and the net and I am delighted that it has peaked 2 million below zero strategy, and work on those will continue to develop what most people forecast. Unemployment, at 4.7%, is at pace across Whitehall. now at historic lows. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to raise living standards is to get those Catherine West: The recent cuts to the international without jobs into jobs and, for those who already have aid budget have undermined the UK’s leadership in jobs, to give them the training and skills they need so advance of COP26, so what urgent steps will the Treasury that they can get higher-paid jobs? That is exactly what take to develop a carbon neutral programme of the Government are doing. international aid going forward? Steve Barclay: I very much agree with my hon. Friend. It is as a result of those measures that unemployment Kemi Badenoch: I will ask my counterparts in the has now fallen for six months in a row and that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to OBR is forecasting a peak of 5% to 6%, compared with answer the hon. Lady’s question directly—they are the previous forecast of 12%. As he rightly says, the responsible for aid. What I will tell her is that there is a peak will be 2 million fewer. It is not just about those lot of stuff we are doing within our remit on international who are being helped back into work, however; it is also climate finance action, not least on the taskforce on about the programme of apprenticeships, traineeships, nature-related financial disclosures. jobs support and the doubling of work coaches that will then help people in work to get into the better jobs that Virginia Crosbie: Time and again, I speak with companies they deserve. that want a freeport on Anglesey. I want a freeport on Anglesey, and local people want the jobs and local Net Zero Emissions and Green Investment investment that will come with a freeport, but the Welsh Government say and do nothing. Will the Minister please urge the Welsh Government to work with me to 3. Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): deliver this game changer in my constituency of Ynys What fiscal steps he is taking to help achieve the Môn? Government’s net zero emissions target. [903237] Kemi Badenoch: I thank my hon. Friend for her 6. Catherine West ( and ) (Lab): letters and her continued campaigning for her constituency. What fiscal steps he is taking to help achieve the We are working closely with the Welsh Government and Government’s net zero emissions target. [903240] remain committed to establishing at least one freeport in Wales as soon as possible. I encourage them to work 8. Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): What fiscal closely with constituency MPs on that. As in England, steps his Department is taking to encourage investment specific locations will be chosen in a fair, open and in green (a) industries, (b) growth and (c) jobs. [903242] transparent allocation process.

9. Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab): What Jeff Smith: The Minister must recognise that climate fiscal steps he is taking to help achieve the Government’s inaction is not just a disaster for the planet but has a net zero emissions target. [903243] huge financial cost and economic consequences. We cannot dodge the critical decisions that we need to 13. Julie Marson (Hertford and Stortford) (Con): decarbonise the economy any more. How exactly will What fiscal steps his Department is taking to encourage the Government hardwire our net zero targets into investment in green (a) industries, (b) growth and (c) every decision in the upcoming spending review? jobs. [903247] Kemi Badenoch: The Government have used the Green TheExchequerSecretarytotheTreasury(KemiBadenoch): Book to mandate that policies must be developed and The Prime Minister’s 10-point plan demonstrates our assessed against how well they deliver on our long-term commitment to net zero. It sets out £12 billion of new policy aims, including net zero. We did that at spending Government investment in green industries. This will review 2020, where guidance required Departments to create and support up to 250,000 highly skilled green include the greenhouse emissions of bids and their jobs in the UK. In addition to this £12 billion, our plan impact on meeting carbon budgets and net zero, and will attract up to three times as much private investment allocations to Departments were informed by that by providing regulatory certainty and robust green finance information. That is how we will continue to carry out frameworks. consideration of climate impacts in fiscal policy. 139 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 140

Julie Marson: I thank the Minister for her response. Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and ) With more than £10 trillion of assets under management (Lab/Co-op): The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) in the UK, there is scope for more green innovation and I may not have the same views on net zero, but we investment via the venture capital sector. I therefore share a concern about how the Government will fund it. welcome the measures she explained and the regulatory We will see, for example, a reduction in petrol vehicles, changes being driven by the Treasury, but will she meet so what will happen to the tax on them? We have also me to discuss a potential office for venture, similar to seen yet another failure recently with the green homes the new Office for Investment, which could provide a grant. What is the fiscal plan for making sure that net centre for expertise and growth in this area? zero achieves its targets while we maintain the Exchequer balances? Kemi Badenoch: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. The Government recognise the important role Kemi Badenoch: I thank the hon. Lady for that question. of financial markets in supporting the UK’s transition Werecognise that this is an issue under intense speculation. to a net zero economy. The British Business Bank is a We will publish a strategy that will set out many of the Government-owned economic development bank that answers to the questions she is posing. What we have makes finance markets for smaller businesses work more said is that we will put affordability and fairness at the effectively, and its remit includes venture capital. I note heart of our reforms to reach net zero. The fact is that her point about a meeting and believe that my hon. everyone in this House agreed with us when we set that Friend the Economic Secretary is happy to meet her on target. For example, we have put in place plans to bring this issue. in electric vehicles by 2030. These will require changes not just in how we spend, but in our tax and regulatory Abena Oppong-Asare ( and ) (Lab): system. The answers will come in due course. It is only 55 days until COP26 in Glasgow and households, consumers and businesses urgently need clarity and Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): As chair of the all-party certainty about how the costs and benefits of our parliamentary group on hydrogen, may I take this transition to net zero will be shared. Labour’s approach opportunity to welcome the Government’s world-leading to tackling the climate crisis would have fairness at its comprehensive hydrogen strategy,backed up by £105 million heart, because we know that while some are planning to of public funding to unlock £4 billion of private investment build personal heated swimming pools in their homes, by 2030? Does the Minister agree with me that this is millions of others are struggling with energy bills. The how we will build back better and create more jobs in net zero review is supposed to consider fairness. At the places such as Teesside? last Treasury questions, the Chancellor told my hon. Kemi Badenoch: I thank my hon. Friend for that Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) question. I do agree with him: building back better and that the final report would building back greener are at the heart of this Government’s “of course be published imminently”—[Official Report, 22 June strategy. I thank him for raising those points, which will 2021; Vol. 697, c. 750.] benefit Teesside and the north-east in general. That was 11 weeks ago. Where is it? Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): At the Kemi Badenoch: As I said, the report will be published weekend, a young activist called Fatima challenged the in advance of COP26, but we have published other Chancellor, asking why the Treasury is blocking action things that the hon. Member does not seem to have on the climate crisis. He replied that the Treasury has heard of or read. We have set out ambitious plans about committed £12 billion of new money to the 10-point the net zero target and published the energy White plan, but even that is not true, as he knows, and the Paper,the industrial decarbonisation strategy,the transport President of COP26 has said that actually only a paltry decarbonisation plan, which has not happened anywhere £4 billion is new money. When will the Treasury start else in the world—we are the first country to do a committing serious money to the green transition, in transport decarbonisation plan—and a hydrogen strategy. the region of the £85 billion that the TUC has said is We will publish the heat and building strategy in due necessary to put into green investment so that we go course. The Government have been busy setting out into COP26 as climate leaders, not climate laggards? plans on net zero, and we would appreciate it if Opposition parties took some time to read them. Kemi Badenoch: I will tell the hon. Lady what the Treasury is doing. We are issuing £15 billion of green Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): The Government’s bonds over the next year, and launching a world-first measures will have important consequences for taxpayers green savings bond ahead of COP26 to help finance the and energy bills. Will my hon. Friend therefore set out Government’s green projects. We set up the UK in detail the cost of net zero and the calculations behind Infrastructure Bank to invest in net zero, backed by that cost? £12 billion of capital, which will also help to unlock more than £40 billion of overall investment in infrastructure. Kemi Badenoch: We will put affordability and fairness We are committing £11.6 billion in international climate at the heart of our reforms to reach net zero. Our latest finance over the next five years to help developing estimates put the costs of net zero at under 2% of countries tackle climate change.The Budget also announced GDP—broadly similar to when we legislated for it three UK-wide competitions that are part of the £1 billion two years ago—with scope for costs of low-carbon net zero innovation portfolio. We have the towns deal, technologies to fall faster than expected. Most of those which is helping people create new green spaces, build represent increased investment in growth markets of the back greener, create sustainable transport routes and future. However, I take my hon. Friend’s point. All I repurpose empty shops. The fact is that the Treasury is would say is that he should wait until the net zero review doing everything it can to support the transition to is published. net zero. 141 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 142

Helping Young People into Work: Covid-19 Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): When I was a very young MP, a Conservative Prime Minister 4. James Daly (Bury North) (Con): What fiscal steps introduced a windfall profit tax on the banks. When will he is taking to help young people into work as part of this Administration and this Chancellor of the Exchequer the economic recovery from the covid-19 outbreak. have the imagination and leadership to introduce a [903238] windfall profit tax on those who have done very well over the last few years, and put it into green apprenticeships, 19. Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): What fiscal green training and green skills, and do it now? steps he is taking to help young people into work as part Rishi Sunak: Talking about young people and financial of the economic recovery from the covid-19 outbreak. services, I was recently in Glasgow talking about young [903253] people starting exactly what the hon. Gentleman described: new apprenticeships in the financial services industry, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): It is growing in Glasgow, supported by this Government absolutely right that we remain relentlessly focused on who have put more money behind apprenticeships than helping young people into work, and our plan for jobs any previous Government. does exactly that with a range of initiatives. I would just draw colleagues’ attention to the fantastic youth offer Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) that our jobcentres are rolling out, providing 13 weeks (Lab): I am hearing from colleges that fewer level 1 and of intensive tailored support for those young people level 2 students are going to college as they are going who enter universal credit and creating 140 dedicated straight into work and that is to be commended, but we youth hubs across the country. know that having a level 3 increases people’s earnings potential in the long term and therefore opportunities James Daly: In Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington, to obtain that level 3 must be available to those young the Government’s plan for jobs is working, saving jobs people as they get older. How can they achieve that, and getting people back into employment. As chair of however, when the Chancellor has cut the adult skills the all-party parliamentary group on youth employment, budget by half since 2010? may I ask my right hon. Friend to update the House specifically on how schemes such as kickstart are helping Rishi Sunak: I point the hon. Lady to the Prime young people with employment and training opportunities Minister’s speech on skills last year when he unveiled throughout the country? this Government’s lifetime skills guarantee, which delivers exactly what she is asking for. Those 10 million adults Rishi Sunak: I thank my hon. Friend for all the work without a level 3 qualification, who she is absolutely he does as chair of the APPG on youth employment, right to highlight, will, for the first time, be able to get and I thank him and his colleagues for their advice as one,fully funded by this Government. That is a Conservative we have developed these initiatives. He is right to highlight Government delivering for people, giving them the skills kickstart. This is a signature initiative of this Government, and opportunities they need. providing Government-funded, high-quality jobs for young people at risk of long-term unemployment. It Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): The combination has got off to a fantastic start, with 50,000 kickstarters of the furlough scheme, the kickstart scheme and the already having started and thousands more to come. youth offer the Chancellor has just discussed shows that his efforts are leading to the UK having one of the Karl McCartney: That initial response is helpful, and fastest economic recoveries in the world. Will he commit of course I commend the Chancellor and his Treasury to working globally to ensure that the confidence and colleagues for their financial support to some businesses opportunities this brings are available globally as they over the last 18 months, and I realise important increasingly are in the UK? announcements from the Treasury and the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, are imminent. However, in a city such as Lincoln with and I want to thank him for two things. First, when he such a vibrant hospitality sector, the cumulative impact was a Minister he created traineeships, and he will be of successive lockdowns has hit my constituents hard, pleased to know that this Government are tripling the especially young people, and my right hon. Friend number of them to give young people the best possible knows that they are disproportionately employed in start in life, finding new skills and opportunities. Most those businesses that are forced to close. Does the importantly, this year, because of his success in making Chancellor agree that we must do everything possible to sure this country had the fastest roll-out of a vaccine keep the economy open so that instead of paying young anywhere in the world, we are enjoying the fastest people not to work, we focus on creating well-paid jobs opening up and the fastest economic recovery, and I pay for them? tribute to him for that. Rishi Sunak: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): The Government highlight the importance of hospitality in employing announced the kickstart scheme to much fanfare. However, young people, which is why, together with our VAT cut at the moment they publish the kickstarter statistics for that sector and indeed £16 billion of business rates breakdown by gender and perhaps by race, but why do reductions, we have helped support all those jobs. He they not do so by disability? Will the Chancellor rectify should also know that employers do not pay employers that? national insurance on those young people under the age of 21, nor on most apprentices up to the age of 25, Rishi Sunak: I am always happy to look at what more demonstrating our support to those employers to keep we can do to improve the transparency of our statistics. young people in work. However, with regard to kickstart in aggregate, I would 143 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 144 just say that there have been 50,000 starts and, when Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): I am afraid compared with previous versions of similar schemes that I must tell the Chancellor that his infrastructure such as the future jobs fund under the last Labour revolution is not very noticeable in cities in the north of Government, kickstart is delivering more young people England, which grind to a halt at rush hour. They into more jobs at a much faster pace and, importantly, desperately need infrastructure investment, particularly many more of those jobs are in the private sector, not in public transport. Can he tell the House when he last just the public sector. met our city region Mayors in the north of England, and what his plans are for fiscal reform that will help New Infrastructure Investment them invest in public transport infrastructure? Rishi Sunak: My entire team meet the regional Mayors 7. Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): What fiscal steps he all the time, and of course we will do so in the run-up to is taking to invest in new infrastructure. [903241] the spending review and the Budget. I agree with the hon. Lady that intra-city transportation is important. 11. Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): Unlocking the economic potential of our cities is important What fiscal steps he is taking to incentivise businesses to to driving our economic recovery. That is why last year, invest in new infrastructure and equipment. [903245] in my first Budget, we announced £4.2 billion for intra-city transport settlements for our largest several cities outside The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): The so that they enjoy the same long-term funding Prime Minister is rightly ushering in an infrastructure as London and can invest in exactly the types of schemes revolution because infrastructure drives growth and that she describes. productivity and creates jobs. We are doing that with over £100 billion of investment this year and, thanks to (Ogmore) (Lab): That investment in the efforts of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, a infrastructure does not get to the south Wales railway world-leading UK Infrastructure Bank created and set service. DFT Ministers keep announcing increased services up in Leeds. along the main line in south Wales, which includes Pencoed in my Ogmore constituency, but no increased Rob Butler: Does my right hon. Friend agree that all investment in stations, level crossings or, indeed, the parts of the country can benefit from investment in track. When will the Chancellor get a grip and start infrastructure, and that an excellent way of achieving investing in much-needed railway infrastructure in south that in my constituency, in support of the substantial Wales? housing development there, would be to approve funding for the Aylesbury link of East West Rail, which would Rishi Sunak: I am not sure that I entirely recognise also help to achieve our target of net zero? the aggregate picture that the hon. Gentleman presents. Rail investment over the course of this Parliament is at Rishi Sunak: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to record levels, under CP5—control period 5—and then focus on making sure that our investment reaches every CP6, to give the technical terms. I am very happy to part of the country, including his constituency. I am take away the specific schemes. He will understand that pleased to tell him that £760 million has been allocated those are a matter for the Welsh Government, but I am by the Chief Secretary and the Transport Secretary to happy to facilitate with the Department for Transport deliver East West Rail, and I understand that the as required. Department for Transport is currently working with the Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I commend East West Rail Company to figure out the best possible my right hon. Friend for his commitment to infrastructure, way to serve Aylesbury. I hope that my hon. Friend will and I particularly welcome the UK Infrastructure Bank. engage with that process. Will he consider introducing an infrastructure bond so that long-term pension funds can invest in the future of Gareth Davies: The Infrastructure Forum recently this country too? published a report that showed clearly that the super deduction is already having an impact, accelerating Rishi Sunak: My hon. Friend is right. He has previously investment by businesses. Will my right hon. Friend join highlighted the importance of unlocking pension fund me in encouraging businesses across Grantham and capital to invest in long-term assets such as infrastructure Stamford to take up the relief, and does he agree that in the UK. He will know that the Prime Minister and I this is exactly the kind of investment that will boost jobs wrote to pension funds just recently discussing that, and and level up our country? my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary is actively working on creating a long-term asset fund, a new Rishi Sunak: From the Office for Budget Responsibility vehicle to unlock exactly the investment that my hon. to the , many people have described Friend the Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) the super deduction as doing exactly what my hon. wants in exactly the type of infrastructure that this Friend has said, and that is why we know it is working. I country needs. recently visited BT, for example, which, because of the super deduction, is now increasing the speed of its End of Universal Credit Uplift roll-out to millions more houses and creating thousands of new jobs in the process. My hon. Friend is absolutely 12. Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): What recent discussions right, and I encourage his businesses to take up the his Department has had with the (a) Department for super deduction, and, indeed, we see that; a Deloitte Work and Pensions and (b) Welsh Government on the survey recently showed that business intentions to invest impact of the end of the £20 uplift to universal credit on in this country are the highest they have been in years. recipients of that benefit. [903246] 145 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 146

16. Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab): What apprenticeships, kickstart. You name it, we are delivering recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of it to help those people in Liverpool to get the skills and State for Work and Pensions on the impact on the the jobs they need to help support their families. Exchequer of ending the £20 uplift to universal credit. [903250] Stephen Timms: Forty per cent. of the people who claim universal credit are already in work. Does the 18. Stephen Timms () (Lab): What discussions Chancellor understand that they will be very hard hit by he plans to have with the Secretary of State for Work this cut, which is the biggest overnight benefit cut in our and Pensions on the impact on the Exchequer of ending history? the £20 uplift to universal credit. [903252] Rishi Sunak: Of course there are people already in work who are on universal credit, but our plan for jobs 21. Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): What recent helps them too. We increased the national living wage discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for this year by an inflation-busting amount—£350 a year Work and Pensions on the impact on the Exchequer of to help those families. We talked earlier about the ending the £20 uplift to universal credit. [903255] lifetime skills guarantee, about apprenticeships, about skills boot camps. Those are all ways the Government The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): The are supporting people; each one of those initiatives, by Government have always been clear that the £20 increase the way, is worth thousands of pounds of support. to universal credit was a temporary measure, much like Those people will benefit from those increased skills furlough and our other interventions to support this and benefit from guaranteed new job interviews or country through the acute phases of this crisis, but we higher wages at the end of it. That is the right strategy are not done supporting those who need our help. This to help those people in work. Government will always be on their side, and that is why we have created our plan for jobs. On the Government Alex Davies-Jones: This week, the charity Action for side of the House, we know that the best way to help Children highlighted that a street cleaner with two children people is to give them the skills and the opportunities in private rented accommodation is already on average they need to find high-quality work, and that is what £729 worse off as a result of Conservative cuts since the plan for jobs is delivering. 2010, but that will soar to over £1,700 as a result of the Chancellor’s planned cut to universal credit. So I ask Ben Lake: Ending the uplift will mean £286 million the Chancellor: how exactly are families meant to manage? less for families in Wales,and risks plunging 275,000 families into poverty.Figures from the Bevan Foundation suggest Rishi Sunak: Again, what we know is that children that families in Ceredigion stand to lose £5.7 million in growing up in workless households are five times more support. What assessment has the Chancellor made of likely to be in poverty than those whose parents work. the economic impact of ending the £20 a week uplift for That is why we are supporting their parents to get into communities in Wales? work and why almost 800,000 fewer children are living in workless households than when this Government Rishi Sunak: The hon. Gentleman talks about those first came into office. That is the right way to support in poverty. The statistics most recently published show those families. Of course, there are other bits of our that 200,000 fewer people are living in absolute poverty welfare system that we have maintained the generosity in the United Kingdom than when this Government of, but when it comes to universal credit or employment, came into office. With regard to the economic impacts, I we on this side of the House we will support their think all colleagues in the House can see the strength in parents into work and, crucially, with their childcare our labour market: the need for businesses to find costs. Mr Speaker, we forget that 85% of childcare costs people and the fact that this Government are giving for people on universal credit are covered to support them the skills they need to get those jobs. That is the parents into work, which we know will make a difference right strategy to help people and that is the economic to those children. strategy this Government are pursuing. Topical Questions Ian Byrne: While the Chancellor was pondering the T1. [903285] Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): If he colour of the tiles for his new swimming pool and the will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. site of his new tennis court for his country mansion this summer, back in the real world 20% of my constituency The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): Over of Liverpool West Derby are facing a £20 a week cut to a year ago, the Government launched their plan for universal credit and sleepless nights about how they will jobs, a comprehensive and ambitious plan to help people survive. Can the Chancellor tell me what assessment the back into work to earn more and to gain the skills they Government have made of the impact of the cut, and need to succeed in the jobs of tomorrow. The latest data how many of the 12,530 people in Liverpool West shows that our GDP and our economy is recovering Derby they estimate will be forced into poverty? quickly, unemployment is falling, jobs are being created, and, indeed, household incomes have been protected. Rishi Sunak: I do not accept that people will be All of that tells me that this Government’s plan for jobs forced into poverty, because we know, and all the evidence is working. and history tells us, that the best way to take people out of poverty is to find them high quality work. We are Stephen Timms: Cutting universal credit by £20 a creating jobs at a rapid rate, with eight months of week will hit working families very hard. It will leave continuous growth in employment supported by this support for unemployed families at the lowest real Government: traineeships, sector-based work academies, terms level for over 30 years. It will undermine the 147 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 148 recovery and scupper the prospects for levelling up. Rishi Sunak: I will be brief, Mr Speaker. When the Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer understand why hon. Lady was appointed shadow Chancellor, she went every single former Work and Pensions Secretary since out of her way to say that any policies that the Labour 2010 has opposed his cut? party put forward on her watch would be “fully costed and we will explain how they are paid for”. We have Rishi Sunak: The right hon. Gentleman talks about heard about uplifts to welfare. We have heard about economic recovery. We are forecast to grow faster this more money for public sector pay. We have heard about year than any other country in the G7. The recovery is opposing every difficult and responsible decision that under way. Jobs are being created, people are getting this Government have made. We have not heard once into work, wages are rising. That is the right strategy for how the Labour party will pay for anything and we us to pursue. Our plan is working and we will stick to it. know what happened last time around when it did that.

T3. [903287] Theresa Villiers () (Con): T5. [903289] Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con): The Will the Chancellor provide an update on the follow-up levelling-up fund is about improving a region. In to the discussions we have had on maintained nursery Bosworth, we are putting forward the Twycross zoo for schools, and will he urgently bring forward a long-term its national centre of conservation and education. It funding settlement for these brilliant schools? will be a world-leading scientific, education and conservation centre, driving tourism and the local Rishi Sunak: My right hon. Friend is right to highlight economy. It is backed by the borough council, the this issue, which I know is of particular importance to county council, the local enterprise partnership and the her and her constituency. I assure her that I have spoken midlands engine. Would the Chancellor like to come to my team about it and, as part of the spending review, and visit it and, failing that, would he like to meet me we will further those discussions with the Department to discuss how we can make this a symbol of the for Education. I look forward to the Chief Secretary levelling up of the nation? and she and I talking about this issue again. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay): I Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): The Prime Minister’s do not know about the Chancellor, but I am sure my and the Chancellor’s plans to increase national insurance children would love to come and visit the zoo. I thank will hit workers and businesses hard at the worst possible my hon. Friend for putting forward a bid for the levelling-up time. The British Chambers of Commerce described it fund. As he will know, bids are currently subject to as a “drag anchor” on jobs growth. The Federation of competitive assessment against objective criteria, but Small Businesses stated: more generally, I think the whole House will welcome “If this hike happens, fewer jobs will be created”. the fact that zoos are once again fully open to the public The TUC said that it is wrong to hit young and low-paid this summer. They provide a wide range of valuable workers while “leaving the wealthy untouched”. We benefits. agree. Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer therefore explain why he is choosing a tax on jobs rather than on T2. [903286] Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba): other forms of income? Scottish communities, other than those in Shetland, failed to benefit from the North sea oil and gas bounty Rishi Sunak: I am very pleased to see the Labour landing on their shores. Now that the North sea’s party finally focus on the importance of jobs in this offshore wind is casting ashore on East Lothian, will House. We also agree that it is important to support the Treasury ensure that East Lothian will actually companies to hire people, which is why there is no benefit, as opposed to it all simply being transmission- national insurance payable on those employing people stationed down south? Or will it go the same way as under the age of 21, on most apprentices up to the age Scotland’s oil and gas: down to the Treasury? of 25 or on people who are going to be employed in new The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi freeports. And, because of the steps that Conservative Badenoch): We support the UK oil and gas sector, Governments have made to the employment allowance, especially as gas is a transition fuel to net zero. The 40% of all small businesses pay no employer’s national sector supports 147,000 jobs directly in its supply chains. insurance at all. I take the point that the hon. Gentleman raises; if he would like to write to me with more detail, I think I will Rachel Reeves: You cannot have it both ways. Cutting be able to give him more comprehensive answers. national insurance either benefits jobs or it does not. The Chancellor told voters at the election: Sir David Evennett ( and ) (Con): “Our plans are to cut taxes for the lowest paid through cutting I commend my right hon. Friend the Chancellor for all national insurance”. his determination to create new jobs and new investment That promise is now in flames. The Chancellor is not and to upskill the workforce; I believe it is paying cutting national insurance; he is putting it up. It cannot dividends, as we are seeing in the economy. Does he be right that nurses and builders are set to pay hundreds agree that further education colleges have a vital role in of pounds more each year in national insurance, yet upskilling our workforce, both young and not so young, those getting their incomes from a large portfolio of to get the best jobs for the future? shares, stocks and property will pay not a penny more. Labour cannot and will not support this Tory Government’s Rishi Sunak: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right manifesto-breaking, economically damaging and unfair about the important role of FE colleges, which is why I tax on jobs. So let me ask the Chancellor again: why will was pleased in the last Budget to invest billions over this this Government not fund health and social care in a Parliament to improve the infrastructure and the quality way that is fair for families and for businesses? of our FE estate. With the Prime Minister’s lifetime 149 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 150 skills guarantee, FE colleges will be instrumental in Steve Barclay: I am in no doubt about the importance delivering to all adults the extra qualification that they and the merits of my hon. Friend’s approach to freeports, need to get better-paid jobs. My right hon. Friend is not least after an early morning meeting that he and I absolutely right to focus on that. had—last week, I think—on that very topic. As part of the integrated rail plan, we are looking at how we link T4. [903288] Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): that to levelling up across the UK. He is quite right to The Government should lead by example with their highlight the growth and productivity opportunity that spending power and with the design of public contracts freeports offer. to buy more from Great Britain, as Labour would, but the UK strategic steel sector has been neglected by T7. [903292] Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab): At the last Budget, this Conservative Government. Highly skilled jobs the Chancellor gave a £25 billion tax break to the top have been lost because a huge proportion of our steel, 1% of businesses in the form of the super deduction, including for HS2, is purchased from other nations. but when the school catch-up tsar came to him asking Will the Chancellor explain why his Government do for £15 billion over a three-year period, he said that he not even have a non-binding target for the use of our could not fund own steel in our national public infrastructure projects? “everybody who comes knocking on my door.” Why is it that when an Amazon-style business comes Steve Barclay: The hon. Gentleman raises a very knocking, the door is wide open, but when students valid point. It is right that we maximise the opportunities come knocking, asking for money to get over the challenges from domestic suppliers; my right hon. Friend the Business of the past few years, the door is slammed in their face? Secretary is focusing on that through the industrial strategy.It is also linked to targeting the seven innovation Rishi Sunak: That is absolutely not right. When it sectors funded through the significant uplift in our comes to the super deduction, what the Labour party research and development budget. will never understand is that we want to support businesses to create jobs. That is what the super deduction does. I Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): just gave the hon. Gentleman the example of BT creating We are working hard in Shropshire on a £500 million thousands of new jobs because of the super deduction. investment in modernising A&E services in our local When it comes to education, this Govt have invested hospital. There is a funding shortage; I have written to £3 billion—£800 per pupil—in helping children to catch the Chancellor on the issue and would be very grateful up with lost education, on top of a record increase in for a response. There is nothing more important than schools funding, which means that per-pupil funding in modernising A&E services for the safety of our patients real terms at the end of this Parliament will be the and constituents. highest it has been in over a decade. Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con): Jobs are the Steve Barclay: I know that that is a very important most important way of helping communities to move constituency issue, and my hon. Friend has championed forward. Those who have been out of work for 12 months it frequently. He will know that, through the long-term or more can access the restart scheme, worth nearly plan, there is a £33.9 billion uplift in core funding, in £3 billion. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that part of addition to the other funding through covid and other his plan is helping everyone to have proper, decent work measures announced by my right hon. Friend the and decent training to enable them to get the right job? Chancellor. I am very happy to discuss the matter with my hon. Friend; I know that it is a key constituency Steve Barclay: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to issue, and he is right to focus on it. highlight not only the importance of restart to the long-term unemployed, but how it sits alongside T6. [903290] Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): Research by the kickstart scheme, the tripling of traineeships and the Disabled Children’s Partnership has revealed that the boot camps for skills. That is part of a plan for jobs nearly three quarters of disabled children have regressed that is working. in managing their conditions during the pandemic as vital services have been delayed. Ahead of the forthcoming T9. [903294] Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): spending review, will the Chancellor consider offering a Will the Chancellor clarify which Department is paying lifeline to families and funding dedicated recovery to the £200 million for the Prime Minister’s vanity yacht? help disabled children and their families to catch up on What does it say about this Conservative Government’s missed services? warped priorities when the Chancellor approves that while planning to cut universal credit for those who Rishi Sunak: I thank the hon. Lady for raising that need it the most? important point. I would be very happy to make sure that it is considered as part of the spending review. Rishi Sunak: This Government are proud of the record investment that we have made in our armed Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): The Chancellor forces—a record settlement for the next few years to referred earlier to the record amounts being invested in support our forces and the work that they do around the rail network. May I urge him to ensure that one of the world to ensure that we can play our responsible the projects that he supports is an east-west freight role. corridor linking the Humber ports to the west coast? We will end on this note, I think. We have had a good That would greatly maximise the benefits of freeport debate today, but one thing is clear: the difference status; it would also aid the levelling-up agenda. between us and the Labour party.Webelieve in supporting 151 Oral Answers 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Oral Answers 152 people into work, we believe in supporting their skills, and are now gearing up to break their solemn manifesto and, crucially, we believe in our plan for jobs, because it promises on the tax lock and the pensions triple lock, is working. why should any voter believe ever again that a Tory manifesto promise is worth the paper it is written on? Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Con): I thank the Chancellor for his willingness to make extremely difficult decisions to fix the crisis in waiting lists in the NHS and Rishi Sunak: What people know they get from this the problems in the social care system. The Health and Conservative Government is a Government who are on Social Care Committee heard this morning that we their side, a Government who are delivering their priorities, need 4,000 more doctors to tackle the backlog. Does he whether their priority is 50,000 more nurses, 20,000 agree that this is about reform as well as money,particularly more police officers, record investment in every part of in respect of the way we plan our workforce? our country, or having a Government who are creating jobs and prosperity wherever people live. It says in that Rishi Sunak: My right hon. Friend speaks on these document that this is a people’s Government, and that matters with extreme authority and experience, and I is what we are delivering. thank him for all his engagement on them with me and others. He is right to want to make sure that we have a long-term plan for people in the NHS. He will know David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): I that we are committed to delivering 50,000 more nurses know that this Government are listening to the levelling-up and 50 million more primary care appointments, but as agenda, especially in the north of England, and on that part of that plan we must ensure that we get the number note I should like to suggest that the best way of getting of GPs right as well, and I look forward to working people back into work is putting forward new initiatives. with my right hon. Friend on that. Will the Chancellor meet me shortly to talk about Eden Project North? Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Given that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have already decided to break their manifesto commitment on overseas aid Rishi Sunak: I should be very happy to. 153 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 154

Health and Social Care A&E; faster GP access to specialists, so people do not have to wait months to see someone in hospital to find 12.34 pm out whether something is wrong; and new digital technology so that doctors can monitor patients remotely in their The Prime Minister (): Mr Speaker, homes. with permission I will make a statement on the We will do all this in a way that is right, reasonable Government’s plans for health and social care. Our and fair. Some will ask why we do not increase income national health service is the pride of our whole United tax or capital gains tax instead, but income tax is not Kingdom, and all the more so after it has been there for paid by businesses, so the whole burden would fall on us during the worst pandemic in a century, treating individuals, roughly doubling the amount that a basic almost half a million patients, administering more than rate taxpayer could expect to pay, and the total revenue 88 million vaccines and saving countless lives. The from capital gains tax amounts to less than £9 billion inevitable consequence of this necessary and extraordinary this year. Instead, our new levy will share the cost action is that covid has placed massive pressures on our between individuals and businesses, and everyone will NHS. As we stayed at home to protect the NHS, thousands contribute according to their means, including those of people did not come forward for the treatment they above state pension age. So those who earn more will needed. Like those who suffered from covid, these are pay more, and because we are also increasing dividends all people we know: your aunt who needs a new hip, tax rates, we will be asking better-off business owners your neighbour who has problems with their heart and and investors to make a fair contribution too. In fact, needs a pacemaker, or your friend at work who thinks the highest-earning 14% will pay around half the revenues. that they should get that lump or cough checked out. So No one earning less than £9,568 will pay a penny, and we must now help the NHS to recover, to be able to the majority of small businesses will be protected, with provide this much needed care to our constituents and 40% of all businesses paying nothing at all. the people we love, and we must provide the funding to Although Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have do so now. their own systems, we will direct money raised through We not only have to pay for the operations and the levy to their health and social care services. In total, treatments that people decided not to have during the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will benefit from pandemic; we need to pay good wages for the 50,000 nurses an extra £2.2 billion a year and, as this is about 15% more who will enable that treatment and who can help us to than they will contribute through the levy, it will create tackle waiting lists that could otherwise expand to a Union dividend worth £300 million. 13 million over the next few years. We now need to go However, we cannot just put more money in; we need beyond the record funding we have already provided, reform and change. We need to build back better from and we need to go further than the 48 hospitals and covid. When the covid storm broke last year,30,000 hospital 50 million more GP appointments that are already in beds in England were occupied by people who could our plan. So today we are beginning the biggest catch-up have been better cared for elsewhere and who wanted to programme in NHS history, tackling the covid backlogs be better cared for elsewhere. That is 30,000 out of by increasing hospital capacity to 110% and enabling 100,000 hospital beds in our NHS, costing billions. 9 million more appointments, scans and operations. As Those beds cannot be used by people needing cancer a result, while waiting lists will get worse before they get care or hip operations, making it harder than ever to better, the NHS will aim to be treating around 30% more deal with the growing backlog in our NHS. elective patients by 2024-25 than it was before covid. Too often, people were in hospital beds because they We will also fix the long-term problems of health and or their relatives were worried about the cost of care in social care that have been so cruelly exposed by covid. a residential home, and that same fear kept many others [Interruption.] The Labour party certainly failed to at home without any care at all. This anxiety affects tackle them. But having spent £407 billion or more to millions of people up and down the country: the fear support lives and livelihoods throughout the pandemic— that a condition such as dementia, one of nature’s bolts from furlough to vaccines—it would be wrong for me to from the blue, could lead to the total liquidation of say that we can pay for this recovery without taking the their assets, their lifetime savings and their home—the difficult but responsible decisions about how we finance loss of everything, however great or small, they might it. It would be irresponsible to meet the costs of this otherwise pass on to their children—while sufferers permanent additional investment in health and social from other diseases, who have to be in hospital for the care from higher borrowing and higher debt. majority of their treatment, have their care paid for in So from next April we will create a new UK-wide full by the NHS. 1.25% health and social care levy on earned income, Governments have ducked this problem for decades. hypothecated in law to health and social care, with Parliament even voted to fix it, yet that 30,000 figure is dividends rates increasing by the same amount. This an indictment of the failure to do so. There can be no will raise almost £36 billion over the next three years, more dither and delay. We know we cannot rely solely with money from the levy going directly to health and on private insurance because demand would be too low social care across the whole of our United Kingdom. for insurers to offer an affordable price, and a universal This will not pay for pay awards for middle management; system of free care for all would be needlessly expensive it will go straight to the frontline at a time when we need when those who can afford to contribute to their care to get more out of our health and social care system should do so. than ever before. It will enable radical innovation to Instead, the state should target its help at protecting improve the speed and quality of care, including better people against the catastrophic fear of losing everything screening equipment to diagnose serious diseases such to pay for the cost of their care, and that is what this as cancer more quickly; designated surgical facilities so Government will do. We are setting a limit on what that non-urgent patients are no longer competing with people can be asked to pay, and we will be working with 155 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 156 the financial services industry to innovate and to help The pandemic has undoubtedly placed the NHS under people insure themselves against expenditure up to that huge strain, but that is only part of the story. A decade limit. of Conservative neglect weakened the NHS. Waiting Wherever you live, whatever your age, your income or lists had spiralled—up 2 million before the pandemic. your condition, from October 2023 no one starting care Targets were missed, on cancer,on accident and emergency, will pay more than £86,000 over their lifetime, and no and on mental health, before the pandemic. The same is one with assets of less than £20,000 will have to make true on social care, with £8 billion cut, despite growing any contribution from their savings or housing wealth—up demand, before the pandemic. Carers were on poverty from £14,000 today. Meanwhile, anyone with assets wages, without secure contracts, before the pandemic. between £20,000 and £100,000 will be eligible for some There were 100,000 vacancies before the pandemic. means-tested support. This new upper capital limit of And the Prime Minister has just referenced the £100,000 is more than four times the current limit, 30,000 hospital beds occupied by those who should go helping many more people with modest assets. into the community—this is before the pandemic—and As we fix this long-term, long-standing problem in he called that an “indictment of failure”. Who had been social care, we will also address the fears that many have in government for 10 years at that stage? Just remind about how their loved ones will be looked after by me. Prime Minister, an “indictment of failure” is an investing in the quality of care, in carers themselves, accurate description of the situation in our health service and by integrating health and care in England so that and social care before the pandemic, so the pretence older people and disabled people are cared for better, that he is “only here” because of the pandemic is not with dignity and in the right setting. My right hon. going to wash. He is putting a sticking plaster over Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social gaping wounds that his party inflicted. He made that Care will be bringing forward a White Paper on integration commitment on social care before the pandemic, and he later this year. said he would pay for it without raising taxes before the pandemic. You can’t fix the covid backlogs without giving the Yes, the NHS urgently needs more investment, but NHS the money it needs; you can’t fix the NHS without the backlog will not be cleared unless the Government fixing social care; you can’t fix social care without hit the 18-week target set out in the NHS constitution—the removing the fear of losing everything to pay for social Prime Minister did not mention that. It was set and it care; and you can’t fix health and social care without was met by the last Labour Government. Let me ask a long-term reform. The plan that this Government are direct question: if there is to be improvement, Prime setting out today—the plan I am setting out today—will Minister, can you commit today to hitting the target fix all of those problems together. Of course, no and clearing the backlog by the end of this Parliament—yes Conservative government ever want to raise taxes, and I or no? I know he likes to avoid these questions, but if he will be honest with the House: I accept that this breaks cannot answer that basic question, it is clear he has not a manifesto commitment, which is not something I do got a plan. lightly, but a global pandemic was in no one’s manifesto. I think that the people of this country understand that Let me turn to social care. Under these proposals, in their bones and can see the enormous steps this people will still face substantial costs. I heard what the Government and the Treasury have taken. Prime Minister said, so I have another direct question for him: can the Prime Minister guarantee that under After all the extraordinary actions that have been his plan no one will have to sell their home to fund their taken to protect lives and livelihoods over the last 18 own care—yes or no? [HON.MEMBERS: “He just told months, this is the right, reasonable and fair approach, you.”] Well, let us hear him make the commitment, at enabling our amazing NHS to come back strongly from the Dispatch Box, that under his plan no one will have the crisis; tackling the covid backlogs; funding our to sell their own home to fund their own care, and then nurses; making sure that people get the care and treatment we will come back to it. they need, in the right place, at the right time; and ending a chronic and unfair anxiety for millions of Social care is about so much more than this. The people and their families up and down this country. I blunt and uncomfortable truth is that under the Prime commend this statement to the House. Minister’s plans the quality of care received will not improve—there is no plan for that. People will still go without the care that they need—there is no plan for 12.46 pm that. Unpaid family carers will still be pushed to breaking ( and St Pancras) (Lab): I point—there is no plan for that. Working-age adults thank the Prime Minister for advance sight of his with disabilities will have no more control over their statement—I think I had almost as much notice as the lives—there is no plan for that. Pay and conditions will Cabinet. May I also thank everybody who works in not improve for care workers—there is no plan for that. the NHS and social care? During the darkest days of Let me spell it out: a poorly paid care worker will pay the pandemic they kept our health service from collapsing, more tax for the care that they are providing without a they looked after the elderly when others could not and penny more in their pay packet and without a secure they rolled out the vaccine, which has finally provided contract. the light at the end of the tunnel. Despite their efforts, The Prime Minister indicated dissent. we are facing the toughest winter in the history of our health service. Not only do we have the threat of another Keir Starmer: The Prime Minister shakes his head; covid surge, but waiting lists for diagnosis and treatment my sister is a poorly paid care worker, Prime Minister, have reached record levels, we risk cancer survival rates so I know this at first hand. going backwards for the first time ever, and social care This is a tax rise that breaks a promise that the Prime remains neglected and strained. It is a crisis, but how Minister made at the last election, a promise that all did we get here? Conservative Members made—every single one of them. 157 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 158

[Keir Starmer] dealing with the anxiety of millions of families across this country who face the prospect of catastrophic It is a tax rise on young people, supermarket workers social care costs. and nurses; a tax rise that means that a landlord renting This Government are dealing with those things—we out dozens of properties will not pay a penny more, but are dealing with all of them. We are getting on with it. the tenants working in full-time jobs will; and a tax rise We are taking the decisive action. We are doing it all that places another burden on businesses just as they together. This is the Government who get on and deal are trying to get back on their feet. Read my lips: the with the people’s priorities; this is the Government who Tories can never again claim to be the party of low tax. tackle social care; and, indeed, this is the party of The alternative is obvious: a timetable and plan to the NHS. clear waiting lists, just as we did under the last Labour Government, and a comprehensive reform plan for Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Con): Raising social care that deals with the inadequacies that I just taxes is an incredibly difficult thing for any Conservative pointed out and drives up the quality of provision—not Government to do, so I thank the Prime Minister for just tinkering with the funding model. We do need to biting the bullet on this intractable issue that I and ask those with the broadest shoulders to pay more, and many former Health Secretaries have wrestled with. that includes asking much more of wealthier people, Does the Prime Minister agree that the demographic including in respect of income from stocks, shares, challenge—which I know he is personally trying to dividends and property. [Interruption.] Chancellor, I address with a bit of population growth in Downing was listening. The Chancellor knows the numbers just Street—means that whether someone pays insurance in as well as I do—he will have done the sums and we have America, social insurance in Germany or taxes in the done them. Tinkering and fiddling with dividends will UK, everyone is going to pay more for their health and not do it. The Government are placing the primary care? Any Government have a responsibility to make burden on working people and businesses struggling to sure that resources are allocated where the electorate’s get by. priorities are, and in this country that is health and social care. As I have said to the Prime Minister, if the Government come forward with a plan to genuinely fix the crisis in The Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend not social care and they have a fair funding model, yes, we only for his support but for all the campaigning and will work together. Thousands of families who are hard work that he did when he was Secretary of State—the struggling with the current system and only want the first Secretary of State for both health and social care best for their loved ones deserve nothing less. because he sees that the two things go together, unlike the Labour party. What he said is entirely correct. The Prime Minister: Now we know why over decades the Labour Government totally refused to deal with Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP): I this problem, and now we know why both Blair and thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of his Brown failed to do it: the right hon. and learned Gentleman statement. Let me quote from it: has absolutely no plan. I was waiting, and I am amazed “Although Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their that he sat down. What is his answer to the backlogs in own systems, we will direct money raised through the levy to their the NHS? What is his answer to the problems in social health and social care services.” care? The Opposition have absolutely no plan. They Let me tell the Prime Minister that health is devolved to have no idea how they would raise the money. the Scottish Government. The Prime Minister can get Let me answer some of the right hon. and learned his mitts off our health system, because the people in Gentleman’s questions. We will of course be investing in Scotland trust the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish social care. I thank his sister for what she is doing in Government to run health and they certainly do not social care, but we have lifted people’s wages across the trust the Prime Minister—[Interruption.] country with record increases in the living wage; we are Mr Speaker: Order. Quite rightly, we heard the Prime investing in 700,000 training places for people in social Minister and the Leader of the Opposition; I expect care; and we are making sure that we invest £500 million— everybody to listen to the leader of the SNP. that is in the plan I announced today—in the social care workforce. Ian Blackford: Thank you, Mr Speaker. When we What this plan will also do is enable us to get our have an attack on devolution, we have the baying mob wonderful NHS back on its feet and enable it to deal of the Tories trying to shout down the voices from with the backlogs. The right hon. and learned Gentleman Scotland. totally failed to explain how a Labour Government Government briefings in advance of the statement on would do that. One year of capital gains tax would not social care told us that this was supposedly a key part of even begin to deal with this problem. He has not got a securing the Prime Minister’s legacy in office. Well, the solution and it is deeply irresponsible of him to come to Prime Minister is certainly creating a legacy, but it is this place without having any kind of alternative. definitely not the one in his vivid imagination. The real Let us be in no doubt: if we did what we have heard legacy of this Government is now well defined: a Tory from the Labour party over the past few weeks, we Government who blatantly break manifesto promises would still be in lockdown, because the right hon. and and blatantly break international law. learned Gentleman opposed coming out of stage 4; we It is telling that as we hopefully emerge from the would have absolutely nothing by way of dealing with covid crisis, the first act of this Prime Minister is to the NHS backlogs; and after decades of inertia from impose this regressive tax. The scandal of the tax hike is the Labour party we would have absolutely no way of that it will fall hardest on the young and the lowest 159 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 160 paid—the two groups that have suffered the worst economic option to fix both our health and social care system. consequences of the pandemic. Pre-covid and post covid, It is unfair between generations, unfair between the pattern is the same, and this Government have individuals and unfair between those who derive their learned nothing. Westminster keeps adding to the growing income from assets or from work. He is ignoring a raft burden that young people face while stripping them of of better alternatives: raising income tax; and making the benefits that previous generations enjoyed. dividend tax equivalent to income tax or capital gains The unfairness of this tax hike will be especially felt tax. Why? in Scotland. The Scottish Government are responsible for social care and already funds provision—including The Prime Minister: The simple reason that I gave SNP policies such as free personal and nursing care—from earlier is that none of those measures raise anything existing budgets and tax receipts. We have done it. As like the funding that we need. I have explained that the Prime Minister well knows, by raising this levy very clearly, and I think that colleagues understand it across the UK, the Tories are taxing Scottish workers and I think the country understands it. People are very twice and forcing them to pay the bill for social care in suspicious. They know that this country has been England as well as at home in Scotland. This is the through an enormous fiscal impact from the pandemic. Prime Minister’s poll tax on Scottish workers to pay for They know that the Government have put their arms English social care. Scottish people remember that it is round people and spent £407 billion. They would be this Prime Minister who said that very suspicious of a Government who pretend that “a pound spent in was of far more value to the country they can get the NHS back on its feet without some than a pound spent in Strathclyde.” kind of serious, responsible, fair, fiscal effort and that is Can the Prime Minister explain to the people of what we are doing. Strathclyde and across Scotland why he is now going after the pounds in their pockets to solve a social care Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): I pay tribute to my problem in Westminster, which has failed to fix right hon. Friend for gripping this issue. We are not in problems in Croydon and right across England? If their Government to be afraid of doing anything for fear of pound is really of less value, as the Prime Minister offending anyone. I will study the plans that the PM claims, why are we paying the price? Is he willing to has promised to set out and I thank him for them. On stand up and explain to the families in Scotland why we behalf of my constituents and their families trapped are being hit by another Tory poll tax? right now in the spiral of rising care costs and fast disappearing resources, may I urge him and the Health The Prime Minister: The NHS is a UK institution Secretary, as we develop the new system that he has and we are all proud of it, and we are proud of what promised, to consider those for whom this is an issue in NHS Scotland does as well. The right hon. Gentleman the present and not just many years into the future. is completely wrong in what he says about those who pay this tax. The burden falls most heavily on those The Prime Minister: I absolutely agree with what my who have the broadest shoulders, as it should, and it is hon. Friend has said. The tragedy of decades of failure the richest 14% who pay at least half the taxation. As I to tackle this matter is that people are now facing these have just explained to the House, there is a massive costs. What we are doing is investing—as we have done Union dividend of £300 million across the whole of the throughout the pandemic—about £6 billion, I think, in United Kingdom, and the whole of the UK will find dealing with the immediate costs of social care to try to that there is more money for health and social care, help people through this very difficult time. What this which is, I think, what the people of Scotland will package offers is a way of developing a long-term understand. solution, enabling, we hope, the private sector to come in and give people a long-term plan to fix the costs of Dame Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) their own social care, knowing that the Government (Con): There will be millions of people right across the will remove the risk of those catastrophic costs. That is country who are so relieved today that, at last, the the advantage of what we are doing today. matter of health and social care will be resolved, with fairness to everyone. Can the Prime Minister reassure Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): Putting aside the the many people who are concerned about prevention? unfairness of the national insurance tax rise that We need early intervention, providing support for the Prime Minister is proposing, is it not the case that families with the very youngest children in our society, the expenditure cap will be his poll tax? In his so that they too can have healthy and fulfilled lives constituency, the average price of a house is £500,000; throughout the United Kingdom. in parts of mine it is £130,000. That would leave people The Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend for in his constituency with an inheritance of more than everything that she does on this issue of early years. £410,000 per family, and in mine £44,000 per family. She and I have campaigned on this together. I have That is unjust and unfair. It is not about levelling up, is listened to her attentively over many years and I know it, Prime Minister? It is about doubling down on that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor is determined everything that is wrong, and yet again the poorest will to ensure that we get the proper funding for early years pay the most. because the investment that we make in those first three years repays society and families massively. The Prime Minister: This is a massively progressive measure that increases the floor on people’s liabilities Dame Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab): Let us set four times. It protects people up and down the country aside for a moment the Prime Minister’s unbridled from catastrophic costs, which anybody can face. record on reneging on his promises, because, today, he Everybody across the country will benefit not only in has chosen what I consider to be the least progressive the investment in social care and in care workers, but in 161 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 162

[The Prime Minister] The Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend, because he played a part in the gestation of these making sure that we deal now and deal properly with policies and knows them intimately. He is completely the NHS backlogs and their effect on our NHS, which right and has been massively encouraging to the is what this country wants to see. Government over the last few weeks. We will be bringing forward a White Paper on the Mr Speaker: Let me just say to Members that we will integration. Of course this is going to be difficult, but it be running this statement for around an hour, so, please, has to be done. We must have a system whereby people let us try to rush on and get through. can work across both the health sector and the care sector in an integrated way. We have to have single Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) budget holders and we have to ensure that, for instance, (Con): During the summer recess, I spent a week looking we have single electronic records in both health and after my father who has advanced Alzheimer’s as my social care. These are things that need to be fixed. We mother had a respite holiday. I pay tribute to all those need to make sure that people are cared for appropriately who look after their loved ones in similar circumstances and in the right setting, and that is why we are bringing and all those who work in the care service. I certainly forward the White Paper. welcome the Prime Minister’s statement today. May I seek assurances that, through the health and social care Florence Eshalomi () (Lab/Co-op): The Prime levy, money raised will go to fund local authorities that Minister will know that a number of young people are do so much brilliant work in this area as well as the NHS? carers for their elderly relatives and family members. I was a carer for my late mother, who suffered from The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend asks the question complex needs, including sickle cell anaemia and renal that everybody wants to be certain of. Absolutely, this is failure. Without those carers, our local government a legally hypothecated levy, but we will ensure that the would have to pick up more issues. What assessment funds that are fixed for social care go to social care so has the Prime Minister made of the high vacancy rates that we deal with the problem of the catastrophic costs. in the care sector, and will he be honest and say that this This will not be dispensed by the NHS, but by the social care plan announcement has no impact on addressing Treasury in the normal course of Government spending. those rates? The Prime Minister: No, this plan does address the Ed Davey (Kingston and ) (LD): I am a carer problems in the care sector. In addition to the £6 billion and I have been a carer for most of my life. Like that we have put into supporting local government with millions of others caring for their elderly, ill or disabled social care during the pandemic, we are putting another family members, I have desperately wanted a plan to fix £0.5 billion into supporting the care workforce. I have the country’s social care crisis after the Conservatives mentioned the 700,000 training places that we are investing failed to implement the Lib-Dem plan legislated for in in. We are also trying to ensure that people who become 2014, but this is not that plan. Where is the plan for the carers—they are wonderful people; I thank the hon. care staff to fill the 120,000 vacancies so that there are Member for what she has done—get the progression people to provide the care? Where is the plan for working- and career structure that they need, and understand age adult care—care for physically and learning-disabled how valued and respected they are. adults, which is the fastest growing care challenge? Where is the plan for the crisis facing millions of unpaid Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): The public will family carers whom the Prime Minister always forgets, welcome the certainty in my right hon. Friend’s and what is his message to the low-paid, the young and announcement today, particularly with regard to the the small business owners hit by covid who now face his cap and the floor, but does he agree that it is time that unfair tax? This Prime Minister has not a clue about we had a real and informed debate about the nature of fairness and he just does not care. old age, now that we are all living longer? The longer that we can live independently, the better it is for The Prime Minister: After a long career of listening everyone’s wellbeing, and we can all make lifestyle to Liberal Democrat opportunism, I do not think that I choices to encourage that. Does he agree that we need a have heard anything quite so absurd. The right hon. fair debate about new models of care and housing Gentleman calls for more funding and then attacks the models to encourage exactly that discussion? Government for providing the wherewithal to do exactly what he wants. We will be spending half a billion The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is completely pounds supporting carers, and there will be 700,000 more right. One of the things that we are bringing in today is training places. The plan supports adult care. It supports the housing and innovation fund, to ensure that we care everybody who needs care up and down the country; it for people in the right settings. She is completely right is not just care for the elderly. that there is no point in having residential care when a domiciliary option would be better, more effective and Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): The reform of perhaps less expensive. That is exactly the right approach. social care has been ducked for decades because successive The patterns of care and way we do things will change Governments have put it in the too difficult box. I and improve—very rapidly, I believe. congratulate the Prime Minister on delivering on our commitments and his commitment. May I ask him to Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Prime Minister, ensure that, as well as the money, we integrate properly most people recognise that if we want more services, we the NHS with social care so that people can get the have to pay more. But if we are going to pay, it should at dignity that they deserve? least be fair. Despite your claim that this is a progressive 163 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 164 tax, it is not. It is a flat-rate tax, the benefit of which will local authorities. Wesee distressed and anxious families— go mostly to better-off people. Those who are less well confused, bewildered and vulnerable people. The greatest off will therefore be subsidising those who are better reform that we can make to the system is to put those off. At a time when we are trying to create more jobs, who need the care at the very centre of our reforms. young people and employers are going to feel the impact. Could I ask you— The Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend deeply; in that intervention, he has summed up the Mr Speaker: Order. Can I just say that the right hon. heart of the issue that I was trying to explain in my Gentleman has been here a long time and knows that I statement. It is the anxiety of millions of families up am not responsible—I certainly do not want to be and down the country who face this uncertainty—about responsible for this—so could he not use “you”? I call the finance, but also the proper setting for their relatives— the Prime Minister to respond. that we are addressing today. Sammy Wilson: Will the Prime Minister— Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): The backbone of the social care system is an army of Mr Speaker: Sammy, sit down; come on, son. underpaid and hard-working home carers and carers. How does the Prime Minister begin to justify to them a The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is a tax rise that not only breaks a promise, but hits them formidable campaigner for his constituents, but I believe hard in their pockets? that these measures do serve them. This plan is progressive; the burden falls most heavily on those who can most The Prime Minister: Because we are investing massively afford to pay. It will, above all, help to deal with the in the sector. We are putting half a billion pounds into current waiting lists in Northern Ireland, which are supporting care workers and investing in 700,000 training excessive and need to come down. places. We are lifting the living wage by record amounts. Above all, we are valuing care workers and showing the Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) respect to them and their careers that I do not believe (Con): The NHS has been outstanding during the has been properly shown before, by any Government. pandemic. However, as the Prime Minister has said, there is now a large waiting list of people needing Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): I welcome that paying treatment. As a hospital doctor, I am delighted to hear for this proposal is going to fall predominantly on the about the increased investment in the national health well off and those with the broadest shoulders. My service that we are getting today, but as well as money right hon. Friend has pointed out that those who are we will need medical and nursing staff hours to reduce earning less than £9,500 a year will not have to pay for the waiting list. What are the Government doing to the proposal, but what other mitigating factors can he increase the numbers of those medical and nursing put in place to help those on lower incomes to pay for staff? it? Once the financial conditions allow, will he look at continuing to raise the living wage and at cutting taxes The Prime Minister: We are massively recruiting NHS for lower earners? staff. I think I am right in saying that, as I stand here today, there are 11,600 more nurses in the NHS than The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend is right there were this time last year, and we will go on to consistently to campaign in the way in which he does for deliver on our manifesto commitment to recruit 50,000 more low earners. We are increasing the threshold for which nurses. people can be liable for paying anything at all from £14,000 to £20,000, which is a benefit that has not really Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab): Having been a come out properly in the conversation. People need to care worker, I know that it is a hard and skilled job that understand that we are lifting the minimum assets for deserves decent pay and recognition, not a Tory tax which people can be liable from £14,000 to £20,000; that hike. Does the Prime Minister really believe that his tax helps people on low incomes. As my right hon. Friend hike, which will fall on the shoulders of care workers, is knows, we are also increasing the living wage. I am any way to reward the heroes who have got us over the pleased to see that one of the effects of the current last 18 months? rebound in the economy, which I know he will be studying, is that wages are now starting to rise again—in The Prime Minister: Yes, because the burdens fall exactly the way that some of us who campaigned for overwhelmingly on those who can best afford to pay, Brexit wanted to see. and the benefit for care workers is not only the increase in the living wage, but the colossal investment that we Clive Efford () (Lab): When I was first elected are making in care. That is something that will benefit to this place in 1997, one of the first people who came not just care workers, but their charges: their patients, to see me in my surgery was the wife of a man who had and the families who desperately need care up and been waiting two years for open heart surgery, and we down the country. are back there again with the waiting lists. There was no righteous indignation from the Tories when the list Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con): A decade reached 2 million before the pandemic hit. Will the on from Dilnot and with the demographic challenges Prime Minister commit today to hitting the 18-week becoming more intense, my right hon. Friend is to be target for waiting lists, and to clearing the backlog by commended as the first occupant of Downing Street to the end of this Parliament? grapple with this immense challenge. Some of the most distressing cases that we encounter as constituency MPs The Prime Minister: I think what the Labour party are families who are caught in that tension between needs to do is come up with any type of plan at all. those who are in hospital ready for discharge and the Every day in this country, plan beats no plan. We are 165 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 166

[The Prime Minister] Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab): People living with dementia and their families putting record investment into the NHS. We have a plan have been particularly affected by the social care crisis. to clear the backlogs—to reduce the backlogs as fast as They represent 40% of care home residents and they we possibly can with this levy. What would pay a dementia premium of 15%. On average, they Labour Members do? Answer comes there none: they spend £30,000 a year on their care. Dementia is an have no plan. outcome of different diseases, which are increasing; we are going to see more and more people living with Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con): For years, people dementia. Therefore, can I ask the Prime Minister whether have come to my surgery with horror stories about the he will also fulfil his commitment in the general election difficulties of accessing care and the frankly squalid manifesto for a dementia research moonshot? We know conditions that their loved ones have to be in in residential that we can, in the same way that we have developed a care. Can the Prime Minister reassure me that, as well vaccination programme, develop cures and treatments as protecting the things people have worked hard for all for dementia. their lives, we will also protect people from having to put their loved ones into conditions that not one person The Prime Minister: The hon. Member is right to in this House would ever want for their loved ones? focus on the issue in the way that she does. It is a very cruel lottery that one in seven face these catastrophic The Prime Minister: Yes, because in addition to the costs as a result of dementia, while those who have caps and the floors that we are introducing to protect other conditions are funded in full by the NHS. I can people from catastrophic costs, we are also introducing certainly confirm that the moonshot programme that a fair cost of care. was begun by my right hon. Friend the former Secretary Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) of State for Health—one of his many moonshots— (SNP): Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies continues. said that there were really no good arguments for using Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con): Can the Prime national insurance to raise these moneys, and having Minister confirm that this funding injection will go been briefed on the Government’s plans, care leaders directly into frontline NHS services, not middle are extremely disappointed, furious and depressed at management, and that patients will be able to see the the Government’s meagre plans on social care. But the tangible benefits from it? question is: why is it necessary at all? This will raise about £12 billion a year, but the Prime Minister’s Brexit The Prime Minister: Yes. Not only will it go to bonus of £350 million a week would aggregate to £18 billion frontline services and to beating waiting lists, but we a year. So where is this money, or did it never exist? will makesure that this money—this massive,unprecedented investment—is accompanied by the reform, change and The Prime Minister: I think the whole country productivity gain that the NHS needs to see. understands that we have been through a pandemic that obliged the Treasury to spend £407 billion on protecting Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab): My former people, jobs and livelihoods by furlough and other colleagues where I used to work as a care worker measures across Scotland. That was the right thing to sacrificed so much during the pandemic and now, under do. I think people also understand that it is the reasonable the Prime Minister’s plans, their pockets will be raided and responsible thing to do now to put the NHS back with a tax that will hit hardest those who are older, on its feet with the funding it needs, and to sort out young and less well-off. Does he agree that it is now social care at the same time. That is what we are doing. time for a national care service and a wealth tax to fund it? Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con): Is not the starting point in this discussion that greater The Prime Minister: The funding that we need on the demand for social care is bound to require greater scale that we need simply could not be raised in the way money to pay for it, and anyone who does not like these that the hon. Member describes or in the way that the proposals needs to explain what the alternative is, which Leader of the Opposition has vaguely indicated today; I is unlikely to be clear, simple and popular? Is it not the do not think I heard a clear description of what he case that, in order to create an insurance market to give actually intends to do. But of course we want to make people even greater reassurance about their future care sure that people in the caring profession get the support costs, we need to put a cap on and that is why the cap is and the investment that they need. That is why we are most welcome? Will the Prime Minister do all he can to putting money into their training and into supporting make sure that that insurance market is stimulated? carers, but also lifting their wages with the biggest ever Finally, will he confirm that that cap applies to those increase in the national living wage. We will continue to who have care needs regardless of their age? support that. The Prime Minister: Yes, I can certainly confirm that Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) (Con): I my right hon. and learned Friend is right on the last declare an interest as chair of the all-party parliamentary point—that the cap applies regardless of age. He is group on local government, in thanking my right hon. completely right in what he says about the logical Friend for making the tough choices that he has today, necessity for the cap if we are to have any hope of the rather than kicking the can down the road, as the private sector coming in with the financial instruments Labour party did for 13 years when it had the opportunity that will help people to protect themselves against the to do something. As welcome as this injection of cash cost up to the limit. That is the virtue of what we are is, can I ask for an assurance that it is going to be met setting out today. And what do we hear from the with the same rigorous reform that is necessary to make Labour party? Deafening silence. the system viable for years to come? 167 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 168

The Prime Minister: Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend makes a everything he does for local government. Of course we very important point. Members across the House will will make sure that we bring forward the White Paper, know that the lower limit in Scotland is £12,500 at the which will show how we intend to join up healthcare moment. Lifting that to £20,000, as we are now, is and local government in a way that they have not been something that people in Scotland may want to address. since the foundation of the NHS more than 70 years ago. I certainly think that the cap of £86,000 is something that people in Wales will want to see, too. There is a (Gower) (Lab): The Prime Minister strong benefit to the whole of the UK proceeding as is behaving like Father Christmas; he does not know one. what he has not delivered in government for the last 11 years. In this House last night, we had cross-party Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and consensus on covering the costs of medicinal cannabis. Lesmahagow) (SNP): As chair of the all-party So while Father Christmas is at the Dispatch Box, can parliamentary health group, I have been hearing concerns he deliver on a Government promise to immediately set from older adults across the United Kingdom who are up a fund to pay for prescriptions for medical cannabis in social care or in the community and have experienced for children with intractable epilepsy? loneliness, anxiety, isolation from loved ones, illness, bereavement and loss. The British Journal of Psychiatry The Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Lady. The has today documented a significant rise in depression in prescriptions that she asks for are actually already this group. Will the Prime Minister commit to ensuring provided for on the basis of clinical advice. that older adults in social care and the community have access to adequate mental health services and that those Damian Green (Ashford) (Con): There has been much services are fully funded? debate about how the money is being raised, but of more concern is how the money is going to be spent. The Prime Minister: The hon. Lady is completely My fear is that, once you start spending on perfectly right to drawattention to the suffering of people throughout proper things like the NHS backlog, there will never the pandemic, particularly in care homes, including the come a point where there is enough money in the new mental stress they have suffered as a result of not being fund to transfer to social care, which needs it now. You able to see or hold loved ones in the normal way. It has cannot spend the same pound twice. So can my right been one of the most appalling features of this pandemic, hon. Friend guarantee that the social care sector will and we are certainly investing record sums in mental itself see a significant uplift in its support in the immediate health to deal with that issue and many others. future?

The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend has done Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Does the great work on this subject and I am indebted to him for Prime Minister share my disbelief at the Leader of the some of the advice that he has given to me personally Opposition’s response to his statement, considering that about how to proceed in this. He is right in what he says. waiting times for treatment and discharge for my The issue is making sure that the funding goes where it constituents in Wales are much longer than they are in is needed and that it is specifically ring-fenced. The England? Can he confirm that Wales, Northern Ireland investments in social care will be protected by the and Scotland will be net gainers out of the social care Government and by the Treasury. levy? Will he further guarantee that the additional sums available will be spent on health and social care in the Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): There are better nations? ways of doing this than to take money from the less well off in work and the young to give to better off pensioners. The Prime Minister: I can certainly confirm that Can I commend to the Prime Minister and my own Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will be getting an Front Benchers the work of the Health and Social Care increment. There will be a Union dividend in the way and Housing, Communities and Local Government that I described, but clearly it is up to those parts of the Committees in their joint report of 2018, agreed country to ensure that that money is spent on the unanimously by all Members of all parties in this people’s priorities, and I believe that the people’s priorities House, which would deliver a system that is sustainable are health and social care. and equitable, address poor quality and low pay, and allow the proper integration of health and social care—none Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab): As well as the of which, from what I have heard today, his proposals 30,000 beds that the Prime Minister talked about, we would deliver? know there has been a 36% increase in people dying at home through the pandemic in circumstances that we The Prime Minister: Time and again, Labour Members know not much about. The mental, physical and financial have stood up and said that there is a better way to do torture and cost born by families is unknown and will this, without offering a single idea. A plan beats no plan. shock many of us when we hear from our constituents. He may be flying a kite today, but I do think he is Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): Can my right breaching a dam, and that is something that we all need hon. Friend confirm that the sums passed to Wales to grasp. Targeted help is not a long-term solution. My under his proposals will not only be ring-fenced for right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) health and social care, but that the Welsh Government highlights what that solution could be, but there is some will be required to apply the same £86,000 cap as will be certainty offered today. Can the Prime Minister clarify applied in England? It would be grossly unfair if care whether he is going to bring forward a White Paper? users in one part of the country were to be worse off Will he bring forward different forms of legislation? than those in another. How are we going to understand the impact? 169 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 170

The Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Lady very not contribute, so will he encourage the Health Secretary much. We are setting out the plan today on the caps and to lay out the details of the tapers as soon as possible, so floors and how to deal with social care. We are setting that everyone can see that this is a progressive levy? out the plan on nurses’ pay and dealing with the backlogs. What we will also be doing is setting out the finer detail The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend the Health of the integration between health and social care in the Secretary will certainly be laying that out. What everybody ways that I have described: everybody should have in the country understands is that there is no electronic records for both health and social care; there intergenerational issue here, because in the end all families should be movement between the two services; community are affected by this. Everybody has older relatives whom nurses and adult social carers should not be doing these we love, and the cost of whose care makes us anxious. radically different professions with different pay spines— Everybody understands that families across the country there should be an integration; people should be having are liable for this and we must take steps to fix it, and care in the appropriate setting; and there should be a that is what we are doing. single budget holder. Those are some of the things that we will be discussing in the White Paper. Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab): Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con): Additional Confidence in job creation is crucial right now in our investment is welcome, but that has to come with assurance. economy. What assessment has the Prime Minister made My constituents in Tipton, because of the Labour of the number of jobs where employers will look at the party, are getting turfed out of their care home, despite extra national insurance contributions and say, “No, I a £2 million underspend by Sandwell Council on adult do not think I will take on those extra staff”? social care.Can my right hon. Friend assure my constituents in Tipton that their campaign to save Walker Grange The Prime Minister: The hon. Lady should remember care home is not in vain? Will he ensure that assurance that 40% of companies will not be affected at all by this. comes with the investment to stop the Labour party I am sure she also knows that the labour market is so turfing out some of the most vulnerable people in my buoyant that not only are there huge numbers of vacancies, community? but wages are rising, and that is a good thing.

The Prime Minister: Yes, Mr Speaker, and I think my Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con): During hon. Friend speaks to the profound indifference of the the pandemic, the Government stepped in to save lives Labour party to this issue for decades. That is why we and jobs. In Rutland and Melton, 47% of jobs would are taking the decisive action that we are to address the have been lost without those efforts. Does the Prime problems in the whole social care system, to support Minister agree that it would be wrong to meet the cost care homes and to support those who must face the cost with higher borrowing and debt, which would be carried of social care. by our children? Will he commit to look at those councils that are worse funded, specifically Leicestershire Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does and Rutland, which need real help with social care the Prime Minister agree that any new money must go above and beyond a generic formula across the country? alongside reform of our NHS? Does he agree that, as we have a system where most people’s entry into the The Prime Minister: Yes, Mr Speaker. I thank my health system is through a GP, it surely cannot be right hon. Friend for what she says about Rutland and Melton, that in many of the most deprived communities in our and we will certainly make sure the councils get the country, people cannot get a GP for love nor money? funding they need. She has hit on the fundamental There must be something wrong in many parts of our point: borrowing more is no answer. We are borrowing country that in this day and age, people cannot get a GP a lot, and in the end borrowing is just future tax rises for and cannot even get a dentist. When can we do something younger people or even people unborn. That is not what to change that? this Government are going to do. The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is entirely right in what he says, in the sense that we are doing Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab): Health and social 50 million more GP appointments. That is part of our care do need massive investment, especially after Tory manifesto pledge. What we are also going to do as part austerity has so undermined our national health service of these reforms—I do not think anyone wants to see over the past 11 years. A 10% tax on the wealth of those money just funnelled into the NHS without reform—is with over £100 million would raise £69 billion. Surely a look at GP contracts to make sure that GPs see the wealth tax is how we should be funding these vital right patients at the right time. services. Is the truth not that despite the rhetoric and the promises, the Tories do not have the guts to take on Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): If there was an the super-rich who fund their party, and that is why they easy solution to the problem of social care, it would will not back a wealth tax? have happened years, if not decades ago. I believe that everybody in this House, but particularly those from The Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Gentleman for parties offering no alternatives, should welcome how his contribution. At least he has the guts, unlike the the Prime Minister is tackling health and social care leader of his party, to say that he would tax people in together with a hypothecated tax, which means that this this country to the tune of £12 billion or £13 billion a health and social care levy is ring-fenced for all our year to pay for this. This is a wealth tax on that scale. constituents’ benefit. On the issue of intergenerational We believe that this is the right way. What we have not fairness, my right hon. Friend said that the recently heard from those on the Labour Front Bench is any retired would contribute and the lowest earning would credible alternative. 171 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 172

Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) workers are on low pay and will face a £1,000 cut in (Con): Will my right hon. Friend confirm that as a their income as a consequence of the Prime Minister’s result of this announcement today, the Scottish national cut to universal credit, on top of the national insurance health service will receive billions of extra pounds in increase they face. What has the Prime Minister got to funding? Does he share my astonishment—and, I am say to our dedicated social care workforce who spend sure, the astonishment of the people of Scotland—at their time caring for our precious loved ones every the remarkable reaction of the SNP today? It seems that single day? because the SNP has not asked for it, it does not want Scotland’s NHS to get this extra funding. The Prime Minister: Let me say again what I have said repeatedly: the social care workforce of this country The Prime Minister: That was brilliantly and succinctly have done an amazing job and continue to do so. They put. Does the SNP want the money or not? Do the did an amazing job throughout the pandemic as well as people of Scotland want investment in their healthcare before it and beyond. I met more of them today. What and social care or not? There is more money coming for they are getting from this package of measures is not Scotland; let us hope that the SNP spends it wisely. only investment in their careers and progression but the long-term structure and respect that they need as a Munira Wilson () (LD): A little over profession and the prospect of integration between two years ago, the Prime Minister stood on the steps of what they do and what the NHS provides. That is a Downing Street and promised the nation an oven-ready massive prize. deal on social care, yet the announcement of a tax on jobs only promises a plan later this year. Crucially, the Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): I detail in the statement says that only people starting congratulate my right hon. Friend on grasping an issue care after October 2023 will be helped with these that his predecessors have been ducking for decades. catastrophic costs. What does the Prime Minister say to Does he agree that what has been announced restores the 1.5 million people missing out on care and to the some equity to a system that relies on pooling our risk millions of hard-working families facing crippling costs and that, in particular, people who have been excluded between now and September 2023 but paying for it with dementia, neurodegenerative disease, Parkinson’s from April next year? disease and the general frailty of old age, and their relatives, can look forward with some confidence to the The Prime Minister: What I say to the hon. Member system that has been there for others also applying to is that, frankly, she should take that up with the former them? leaders of the Labour party, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, and all the former Ministers responsible who The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend knows did absolutely nothing to fix the problem when they exactly what he is talking about, because he is a former were in office. It is this Government dealing with it now. GP who has seen these issues at the frontline. With this measure, we are not only investing in care and in the Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): The Prime NHS but bringing the magic of averages to the rescue of Minister was absolutely right to focus on the importance millions. of the social care workforce. Unfortunately, the Government’s own estimate is that due to our compulsory Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): Before vaccination measures, 40,000 people in that workforce the pandemic, the Conservative-led Local Government will leave the sector by November. Are there urgent Association said that there was a gap in social care measures in his plan that the Government will take to funding and local authority funding of about £5 billion. replace those missing care workers so that we can It has got worse since. Will the Prime Minister therefore deliver the high-quality care that I think everyone in the state clearly, of the £36 billion to be raised through this House wants to see? addition to national insurance contributions in the next three years, how much will go to local authorities to The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend makes an fund social care? When, in 2023, he brings in the cap important point about compulsory vaccination. I believe and floor system, that will mean less money coming in it is the right thing, and, in the ways that I have from people’s own funding, so what will the net addition described, we are making sure that we encourage more be for local authorities from the increase in national people to join the social care workforce, with the insurance payments and the reduction in payments £500 million of investment and the training places. We from the cap and floor system? must also understand that many of those social care workers are leaving to join the NHS, where vaccination The Prime Minister: The hon. Member makes an is not currently compulsory.Almost 10% of NHS frontline exceptionally important point. In addition to the £6 billion workers are not vaccinated. That is something on which that we put into supporting local government throughout we need to reflect, and that is why we are having a the pandemic, we are putting more in precisely to consultation on the way forward for the NHS. I do not support social care. That will ramp up over time as the think it is right that almost one in 10 frontline NHS system kicks in. The distribution will be set out in due workers should be unvaccinated against covid. course by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. Helen Hayes ( and ) (Lab): It is telling that, in the Prime Minister’s statement, there Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Nobody in was not a single word of tribute to our extraordinary this House, and I doubt anyone in the country, will be social care workforce or any mention of the pay increase surprised that the Prime Minister has the guts to take that they so desperately need. Many of those social care on reforming social care when none of his predecessors 173 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 174

[Mr Peter Bone] covid with dementia. Will the Prime Minister tell us when he will honour his manifesto pledge to double did. I was amazed that in the statement he pointed out research spending into this cruel disease that took my that roughly one in three hospital beds are occupied by mum—it was isolating before covid—or is this just people who could be better treated and cared for another one going the same way as the money for the elsewhere. It seems to me from my surgeries that the NHS promised on the side of the bus? problem is largely due to local government and the health service not working together. When can we see The Prime Minister: I am very sorry to hear about the some improvement in that? suffering of the hon. Member’s mother. Dementia is a very cruel affliction, and it is because of the cruelty of The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is completely that lottery about who gets it and who does not that we right, and I am sure he speaks for Members across the are putting in the measures that we are. But we are also House who have experienced this problem in their funding extra research into dementia, and my right hon. surgeries for years. There is a mismatch between health Friend the Health Secretary is determined to ensure and social care and there is not a proper system for that we continue with the moonshot that I was referring deciding where people should be treated for their own to earlier. benefit, and the result is that we get these huge pressures of delayed discharge that make it more Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con): May I ask difficult to deal with the elective surgery that people the Prime Minister why he decided to reject other forms need—particularly now. That is why we must do both of insurance as a model? The Germans brought in an things at once, and that is why we are doing what we insurance model back in the 1980s, facing the same are doing. problems that we had, and it relies on the private insurance sector. The noble Lord Lilley from the other Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) place has brought forward a Bill that would see the (Lab/Co-op): The right hon. Member for Ashford Government set up a state insurer. Those retired (Damian Green), the hon. Member for Cities of householders would then pay a premium, which would London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) and my hon. be fixed as a charge, and then that charge would only be Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) paid upon the death of that individual. Do not those have hit the nail on the head: there is no plan for social models do a little more to intergenerational fairness? care. What the Prime Minister has listed is money to go into the NHS. Will he tell us now when the money will The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for his go to local authorities so that it can go to those thoughtful question. We looked at all those models of domiciliary and residential social care providers who course, Mr Speaker, as you can imagine. I think that the actually need it? problem is that we need to go for an insurance system that works and has a genuine chance of being set up, The Prime Minister: It is all in the plan. The and the only way of encouraging the financial services overwhelming bulk of the funding begins with support industry to come in and offer products, whether they for frontline NHS electives, for nurses’ pay and for are insurance or annuities or whatever, is to take away vaccines; then, as the social care plan ramps up, the that risk of catastrophic cost. That is a very substantial ratio changes. It will be set out by my right hon. Friend risk for too many people and it means that the insurance the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. market has not been able to develop. We believe that this is the best way forward for the country. Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): May I quote from a recent report from a joint inquiry by the Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Health and Social Care Committee and the Housing, Strathspey) (SNP): My hon. Friend the Member for Communities and Local Government Committee on Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) referred the future funding of social care, on which I sat to comments by IFS director Paul Johnson earlier, but together with 12 Opposition Members? It says: Paul Johnson has also said he is “We therefore recommend that an earmarked contribution, “bemused as to why such a bad tax policy instrument has to be described as a ‘Social Care Premium’, should be introduced, to used”, which individuals and employers should contribute. This can and pointed out that the under-50s would pay two either be as an addition to National Insurance, or through a thirds of the costs of social care if they paid through separate mechanism”. NI. Prime Minister, that means young people and the Does that not show that there is cross-party support for lowest-paid bearing the brunt. Many of these are also such a proposal and that the Opposition’s objections working with universal credit—people in Scotland paying are simply political opportunism? that and elsewhere. Does he think it is fair to progress this while also cutting the £20 a week from hard-pressed The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for families on universal credit? making that elegant but telling point about the cross-party support that there should be. We are trying The Prime Minister: No, because obviously older to create the conditions by decisive Government action people continue to pay the levy and the richest 14% pay for exactly the kind of insurance systems that I know half the cost of this transformation, and that is entirely he wants to see. the right thing to do.

Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab): It Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): If there has been a long time coming, but this announcement is had not been a pandemic, how would we have funded too little, too late for the 34,000 people who have died of this reform of social care without having to raise taxes? 175 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 176

The Prime Minister: The pandemic and the cost of unpaid carers have now is the certainty that if they need the pandemic have impacted both our health and our to pay for the cost of care in some way or other, there social care systems. As I have tried to explain to the will be a limit and they will not have to continue with House today, they are intimately related. The best way their unpaid exertions, their care and love forever, because to put them on a sound footing—both of them on a the Government are coming in to help them. sound footing—for the future is to treat them together and to put in the levy in the way that we are. Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’sinvestment into the NHS,particularly Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): We all into the beds, which have obviously clogged up. We see know that the Prime Minister’s promises are a wee bit this in Stoke-on-Trent, where the Royal Stoke University dodgy. Today, he promised that his extra taxes will go to Hospital was built under the last Labour Government, the frontline, so by how much will he increase the pay with a disastrous PFI debt that steals £20 million a year for people in the social care profession or is it just going from the frontline. It also has 200 fewer beds than the to be another round of applause? previous hospital. So can my right hon. Friend ensure that previously forgotten areas such as Stoke-on-Trent The Prime Minister: People in the social care profession, will get their fair share of funding? overwhelmingly, are not paid by the Government as the hon. Member knows, but they are the beneficiaries of The Prime Minister: With the PFI contracts and the the living wage, which the Government have increased endless borrowing that Labour instituted, hospitals up by record amounts. What we are doing is investing in and down the country are paying the price for the their training, investing in their careers and making sure approach advocated by the last Labour Government—the that they get the respect and the progression that they completely financially reckless and incompetent approach. need. That is the opposite of what this Government are doing. We are taking the fiscally responsible, reasonable Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): The devil, as ever, and right approach to fixing this problem. will be in the detail. However, may I initially broadly welcome these proposals, particularly compared with Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): The Prime what we were expecting, which was a rise across national Minister said at the Dispatch Box, though it is not in insurance as it stands at the moment? This is a much the printed copy of his speech, that the NHS backlog broader-based levy: it includes those who have retired that we face will get worse before it gets better. How and those who are receiving dividends. It seems to me much worse? that that has a very welcome consequence; the broadest shoulders will pay the most. But can my right hon. The Prime Minister: It would be a great thing if the Friend also address one of the criticisms of what we Labour party would support what we are doing. With feared might have been brought forward today, which the package we have brought forward, we will be able to was the impact on the young in particular and this issue fix that backlog even faster. If the hon. Member or the of intergenerational fairness, and how he feels that this right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras approach is going to be useful in that respect? (Keir Starmer), the leader of the Labour party— [Interruption.] By the way, we did not hear from him The Prime Minister: I thank my right hon. Friend whether he is going to vote for these proposals or not: very much for his support, because it is extremely as usual, a great vacuum at the heart of the Labour important, and I think he is completely right. We are party. Does he actually support these proposals—yes or trying to make sure that those who can pay the most do no? That is what I would like to know. pay the most. We are trying to make sure that we address the issue of intergenerational fairness. But there Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): I think is a bigger point, which I have made repeatedly. This is the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Health not something that simply affects one generation, the Secretary deserve enormous credit for coming together elderly. There are huge numbers of younger people in and working out a plan for this incredibly difficult care who will benefit from what we are doing and every problem, and I think people outside this place will person in this country has relatives who face the problems recognise that. But does the Prime Minister agree with that we are trying now to allay or to defeat. me that one of the most difficult parts of this challenge is ensuring that we bring out the very best now in our Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): The Prime NHS—that we bear down on unnecessary costs and Minister today was supposed to be announcing a social increase quality output from the NHS? Does he agree care plan, but there was no vision, no detail and no real that that is the key to freeing up that extra resource to sense of understanding the complex web of issues that get to the frontline of social care? create the social care crisis. In particular, he made no mention of the millions of unpaid carers, whose The Prime Minister: Yes, we cannot simply continue commitment to their loved ones props up the failing to funnel huge sums into the NHS without getting the system. So will he now say very specifically what is in his productivity gains that I know that everybody wants to plan to identify and support unpaid carers, and particularly see around the country. Of course, we want to value our young carers, and what resources will he commit to frontline NHS workers. That is why we have put up the them? wages of nurses. It is why we are increasing salaries and recruiting many more. But we must see the gains in The Prime Minister: I thank unpaid carers for everything efficiency that go with the investment we are making. that they do, and the hon. Member is quite right to We are investing record sums, and we also need to see point out the huge contribution that they make. What improvements in the NHS service as well. 177 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 178

Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP): these plans unquestionably mean fewer jobs and economic Cabinet Ministers, Tory Back Benchers and Lords, and damage and that they are “devastating” for businesses businesses large and small are all opposed to this proposal. trying to There is universal criticism of how it will affect young “get back on their feet”. people and those who are less well-off who are working, Why is the Prime Minister intent on damaging the very and, to top it all, the Prime Minister cannot resist fragile recovery we have had for the past year? interfering in the devolved settlement, even though Scotland voted for a majority of independence supporting MSPs. How long—how long—does this Prime Minister think The Prime Minister: I disagree vehemently with what he can carry on like this before he follows in the footsteps the hon. Lady says because the economy is coming back of the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) much more strongly than many predicted, including the and loses his majority due to a botched plan? Office for Budget Responsibility, which is a good thing. If we had followed the advice from the Labour party we The Prime Minister: I leave it to the hon. Lady to would still be in lockdown, but we are seeing growth speculate on that time, but it is very bizarre that yet returning and jobs being created, and I do not believe again the Scottish nationalists—I think she is a Scottish anything in this plan will do anything to dent that nationalist—seem to be rejecting the Union dividend confidence. On the contrary, businesses want to know that this produces. I hope, and the people of Scotland that their workforce have the security of a good health deserve, that this money is spent on health and social and social care plan to back them up, and that is what care in Scotland; let us hope it is so spent. this Government are providing.

Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con): Many in this Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): As Conservatives, House have discussed the burden placed on councils, broken pledges and tax rises should concern us. Our and I echo the concern that this money must be ring-fenced finances are in a perilous state; surely a radical review of for the local authorities, who take the lion’s share of the the NHS is needed if this money is not going to disappear burden for adult social care. Can the Government give into another black hole. Does my right hon. Friend greater assurances as to how the funding streams will be agree that the Conservative way to raise revenue is to safeguarded and directed towards local authorities? lower taxes, not raise them?

The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is spot on, and The Prime Minister: I do agree with that general the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care will proposition, but in the current circumstances, after 18 set out later how we will ensure local councils get the months in which it has been necessary for the Government support that they need. to perform the most enormous fiscal exertions to put their arms around the country at a very difficult and Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op): The dangerous time, it is right that we take these steps to put Prime Minister failed to say a word about the broken the NHS back on a sustainable footing and to deal with private care market that fleeces the frail and suppresses the problems of social care which make long-term the wages of the workers. Why has he failed to lay out solutions for the NHS—the very reform that my hon. plans to end this broken market and introduce a public Friend and I want to see—so difficult to achieve. national care system? Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): Words The Prime Minister: I know that the Labour party I never thought I would say: the Prime Minister is right, wants to nationalise everything, which would be typically we cannot fix the NHS without fixing social care. But insane since the vast majority of care is provided by the we cannot fix social care without fixing local government, private sector. What we are doing is lifting people’s and of course in the lifetime of this Government £15 billion wages with the national living wage, investing in training has been taken out of council budgets, disproportionately and putting half a billion pounds into progression of hitting some of the least affluent parts of England and the caring workforce, and we will also make sure that impacting on social care outcomes. Councils need local councils get the funding they need to support a assurances now that funding will follow and clarity on fair cost of care. when they will get it and how much it will be; does he understand that? Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con): When people cannot get an appointment with their GP they often The Prime Minister: Actually in the last few years we turn to hospital A&E departments, or miss out on early have seen record increases in local council spending intervention which places greater pressure on our health power, and we have continued to support councils system further down the line. As part of his plan for the throughout the pandemic. My right hon. Friend the NHS to recover, will the Prime Minister make sure that Secretary of State for Health and Social Care will be everybody can get face-to-face appointments with their setting out how we propose to support local government GP without further delay? going forward with the fair cost of care, but in the meantime may I thank the hon. Gentleman for his The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is completely unprecedented support for these measures? right and speaks for colleagues across the House: we need to reform the system so that GPs see the right David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): I people at the right time and in the right numbers. can probably say that in the last 18 months during lockdown I have seen more of the NHS than most Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): Mike Cherry people—I have had a neck operation, my baby was of the Federation of Small Businesses has said that born, my back exploded, for want of a better word, and 179 Health and Social Care7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Health and Social Care 180

I was paralysed—and I would like to go on record and who pay off their mortgage and work hard all their lives thank the Royal Lancaster Infirmary for getting me to build up something for their families and descendants. walking again and looking after me and my family. So I think these measures are profoundly in the interests I say the following in a collegiate sense to everybody. of the people of this country. What the Prime Minister has done here is what Andy Burnham wanted to do 10 years ago but never brought Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP): Let us be it through when he was the last Labour Health Secretary clear: Scottish taxpayers are being asked to bail out and the shadow Secretary. What the Prime Minister is England’s failing social care system from a mess created doing is brave, but I have been saying for years when by the UK Government. I ask the Prime Minister, in all knocking on doors in my constituency, “Put an extra good sincerity: does he believe that his new poll tax will penny on taxation for the NHS,” and everyone has help or hinder the cause of Scottish independence? agreed with me. So, whatever these tax rises are going to be, so be it: we have to protect the NHS—it is our moral The Prime Minister: Good luck with that one. That is duty. all I can say to the hon. Gentleman. What the people of Scotland and the whole of the UK are getting is £2.2 billion The Prime Minister: It is wonderful to see my hon. more across the whole of the devolved Administrations Friend looking so well, and I echo his thanks to our and a £300 million Union dividend. If they do not want healthcare professionals for everything they do. I believe to spend it on health and social care, or if they do not it is the fixed view of the British people that after a very want to spend it at all—if he is handing the money difficult time it is fiscally right and responsible to protect back—then let us hear it from the Scottish nationalist frontline healthcare and support the NHS but also at party. Do they want it or do they not? the same time to fix the underlying problems, of which social care is just one. Mr Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend work with me to examine ways that I can see of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Prime getting the finance, technology and political sectors Minister for introducing this long overdue measure to together to do this in a way that can be less of a burden address the NHS and social care. Across the United on the taxpayer? Kingdom, and in my constituency of Strangford, small and medium-sized businesses are critically important in The Prime Minister: Yes. I thank my hon. Friend. I providing jobs and boosting the economy. Can the have been reading some of his brilliant contributions on Prime Minister assure this House that across the United WhatsApp groups about this issue, and I share his Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland SMEs idealism about the ways in which the private sector—the will not shoulder the burden, as they can little afford it? financial services industry—can take advantage of what we are doing to help ordinary people up and down the The Prime Minister: I am a fervent admirer of the country to protect themselves in exactly the way that he businesses of Northern Ireland and their ingenuity and describes. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary ability to innovate, which I have seen many times at first of State for Health and Social Care would very much hand. I know they are capable of a very dynamic welcome his help as we work towards the White Paper. recovery, and indeed believe that is going on right now. I have every confidence in my right hon. Friend the Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP): I thank the Prime Chancellor to keep bringing forward those business-friendly, Minister for at least providing clarity that any reference supply-side measures which will drive a very strong to a “Union dividend” simply refers to devolved nations economic recovery. getting back the taxes that they pay and having the balance filled up with UK borrowing. In his belated Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con): I welcome my attempts to tackle England’s social care crisis, with right hon. Friend’s commitment to improve and raise hedge fund owners to the left of him and millionaire NHS capacity. For decades bed occupancy rates in the property owners to the right, can the Prime Minister NHS have been kept too high in the name of efficiency explain what it was that persuaded him to embed the but at the expense of resilience. When it comes to advantages of inherited wealth and privilege, and instead reforming long-term care we need a clear set of principles shift the burden for paying for this policy on to the to be followed: we need to encourage and make it lowest earning and the youngest in society—those with worthwhile for people to save for a rainy day; we need to the least assets? support families to look after their loved ones; and we must allow enough money to pass down the generations The Prime Minister: I do not think there is anything to make it worthwhile to save in the first place. Can my much inherited on the left, the right or the middle of right hon. Friend reassure us that his proposed reforms this particular trio. Again, I find it extraordinary that will meet these tests? the Scottish nationalist party would rather not have the Union dividend that this programme produces. The The Prime Minister: Yes, and I thank my right hon. people of Scotland need to look at what is now being Friend for his support; he knows a great deal about this offered in terms of raising the thresholds for protection subject from many points of view. It is certainly right to and helping people across the UK, and I hope that we bring in the measures that will help to create a private can all move forward together. sector market for support in the way I have described, but also more fundamentally from our point of view—my Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I commend right hon. Friend’s and my point of view—these are my right hon. Friend for keeping a promise that he measures that support thrift, that support people who made on the first day of his premiership and for his save, and that support people who do the right thing: frankness about the difficulties of funding the challenges. 181 Health and Social Care 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 182

[Stephen Hammond] Business of the House There will be millions of hard-working families today looking at his proposals for the cap and floor and 2.13 pm welcoming them. Can he confirm that the cap will cover The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob all types of care—residential and domiciliary—and that, Rees-Mogg): Following the statement just made by my given that there is likely to be a need for more care right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on a sustainable workers, there will be up to £500 million as a training plan for the NHS and social care, I should like to make fund within the levy? a short business statement regarding business for tomorrow and the rest of the week. The business will now be: The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend, who knows a great deal about this issue and the pressures WEDNESDAY 8 SEPTEMBER—Consideration of a Ways that the sector faces. I can tell him that, yes, of course it and Means resolution on health and social care levy. covers both residential and domiciliary, and yes, there is THURSDAY 9 SEPTEMBER—Motion relating to the second a £500 million fund to help the caring profession, and report of Session 2021-22 from the Committee on we will provide 700,000 training places as a direct result Standards, followed by remaining stages of the Rating of what we are doing today. (Coronavirus) and Directors Disqualification (Dissolved Companies) Bill, followed by a general debate on the legacy of Jo Cox. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee. FRIDAY 10 SEPTEMBER—Private Members’ Bills. As usual, I will make a business statement on Thursday.

Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab): I thank the Leader of the House for advance sight of the statement. This morning, the Cabinet was bounced into the Prime Minister’s so-called social care plan, and now the Leader of the House is trying to bounce Parliament into accepting it in a vote tomorrow. This is no way to run a Government. It is no way to run a country. This Tory tax rise will not come in till next spring, so why the rush? Does he know that he will never get it past his Back Benchers and through Parliament otherwise? Is he making sure that his own MPs have as little time as possible to consult their constituents or hear from stakeholders and experts? He would not be the first Minister in his Government to forget that emails will be coming into his colleagues’ inboxes right now. The Leader of the House recently reminded the Prime Minister of the fate of one-term President George H. W. Bush and his words on taxes, which were not heeded. Will the Leader of the House be voting against his Government tomorrow, or was that another example of more empty rhetoric? The Government are in crisis-management mode, lurching from one disaster to the next. They are trying to cover up the fact that they do not actually have a plan; they only have a tax rise. The haste on this vote is to cover up a litany of broken promises and failures. There is nothing for carers, there is nothing to help people to stay living in their own homes, and there is nothing to help the council funding shortfall that successive Tory Governments have caused. The Prime Minister stood on the steps of Downing Street two years, one month and 14 days ago vowing to “fix the crisis in social care once and for all…with a clear plan” that was “prepared”, but here we aren’t—this is not a clear plan, and it does not seem very prepared. This was just an attempt to fix an NHS funding gap that this Government, and successive Tory Governments before them, caused. Now that we have been waiting for more than two years, why the sudden haste? Today we see why: they just want to rush it through without proper consultation. 183 Business of the House7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Business of the House 184

Mr Rees-Mogg: That was a fine example of sound going to have to explain to all their new voters that they and fury which signifieth nothing. It is entirely routine will have to swallow this regressive move and how it will for matters to be brought before the House in this way. impact on them. We will want to hear from Scotland, Whenever a Budget comes forward, the Budget resolutions too, as we will be invited to pay twice for the Government’s may be voted on that very evening. It has always been social care mess for services that we have already legislated the case that matters relating to taxation are dealt with on. All I can say to the Leader of the House is that these swiftly, because it is important to ensure that people are lips were made for talking. not able to take forestalling measures and so forth which become possible if taxation is not dealt with Mr Rees-Mogg: One had noticed that the hon. properly. Gentleman’s lips were made for talking. It is done a Tomorrow is in fact about dealing with the Standing great deal and usually to the great entertainment of the Orders of this House, which require a Ways and Means House. I am delighted, flattered, thrilled by so many resolution before legislation may be brought forward. people reading my comments in the Sunday Express.I The legislation will be brought forward in due course, do a weekly wisdom for them. As my wife points out to and I will announce it in a business statement. All of me, being wise once a week is probably as much as can this is completely routine and standard. I am afraid that be expected of me. None the less, I provide these the more the Labour party says that there is no plan, comments for the Sunday Express and I hope people when a plan has been published, detailed by the Prime will carry on reading that estimable newspaper and Minister and announced to the world, the more it getting my wisdom on a weekly basis. shows the vacuity of the opposition—an Opposition The time allowed tomorrow is sufficient and there who learn nothing and remember nothing. will, of course, be legislation brought forward, as I said. Tomorrow—I am sure the hon. Gentleman is right—many Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I congratulate Conservative MPs will want to wax lyrical on the advantages the Government on the Prime Minister’s giving another to the United Kingdom of this proposal, which will see statement to the House. That is two in two days, I think. a £300 million Union dividend and help bail out the He has been one of the most active Prime Ministers in failings of the Scottish national health system, so badly Parliament. run by the nationalist Government in . Extra On the business statement, can the Leader of the money will be going to Scotland and Scotland will House give us an assurance on the amount of time for receive more money than Scottish people pay in taxation— tomorrow’s debate? I welcome the early debate, but I or, to be more accurate, than Scottish residents pay in want to ensure that there is enough time for Members taxation—so it is of benefit to Scotland. I might remind to get in. Has he any view on the length of the debate? the hon. Gentleman about gift horses not being looked in the mouth.

Mr Rees-Mogg: The House may be surprised that, in Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): I have the absence of call lists, it is much harder to plant received a brace of emails asking me to be here on questions. However, my hon. Friend’s is extraordinarily Thursday to vote against covid passports. Is the Leader useful, because I am pleased to tell the House that the of the House sure there is something he has not told us? whole of tomorrow will be available for the Ways and Means resolution, subject, of course, to urgent questions Mr Rees-Mogg: I am not entirely sure who my right at the discretion of Mr Speaker, and statements that hon. Friend receives his emails from. It may be from may prove necessary. certain conspiracy theorists who think all sorts of things are going to be discussed in this House. I remind him of Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): I what I said about Thursday: there will be a motion thank the Leader of the House for his short statement. relating to the second report of the Session 2021-22 We are getting this “everything’s normal and as it from the Committee on Standards, followed by the should be” tone from the Leader of the House, even remaining stages of the Rating (Coronavirus) and Directors though he knows that nothing is normal about what he Disqualification (Dissolved Companies) Bill, and then is doing tomorrow. I am sure that he is thrilled that the a very important general debate on the legacy of Jo Cox. very thing he profoundly opposes will be debated and If my right hon. Friend wishes to be here earlier in the voted on tomorrow.I remember reading over the weekend: morning, he can, of course, hear my business statement, “Read my lips: no new taxes.” which will update him on any further business. He is right; people did remember those words, and they Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Will the will remember them again. Perhaps we will see those Ways and Means resolution be amendable? In particular, defiant lips move in accordance with a matter of principle would it be possible to amend the Ways and Means for him and see him vote against these measures when resolution to ensure that the cap on care costs comes they come before the House. into effect at the same time as the higher taxes, instead Following on from the question asked by the hon. of 18 months later? Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), I am wondering whether one day is enough for all this. We need to hear Mr Rees-Mogg: Ways and Means resolutions are from countless Tory Members apologising to their amendable. My hon. Friend will have to have a discussion constituents for breaking their manifesto pledge not to with the Table Office on what type of amendments it raise tax, VAT or national insurance. We particularly will accept, but, yes, the broad principle is that they are want to hear from all the red wall Tories, who are now amendable. 185 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Pensions Update 186

Pensions Update While the earnings growth is a welcome sign of the country’s overall economic recovery given the unique 2.22 pm and exceptional events of the past 18 months, this year’s measure is being skewed and distorted, reflecting a The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse technical and temporary period of reverting or rebounding Coffey): With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I earnings—the differing cohorts of people who were will make a statement on the annual uprating of state retained or made redundant. As a result, the earnings pensions and survivors’benefits in industrial death benefit. measure is a statistical anomaly and is not a real-life Each year, as the Secretary of State for Work and basis for considering this year’s uprating of state pensions. Pensions, I am required to undertake a review of certain As other commentators have said, for example the benefit and pension rates in relation to the general level Institute for Government: of earnings. Just as last year, this year I anticipate an “The figure for earnings growth is distorted...the increase is unusual change in earnings due to the effects of the artificially high because so many workers were furloughed last covid pandemic. The unprecedented but necessary covid year”. restrictions we introduced last year protected lives,especially The Social Market Foundation also endorses my proposal, the most vulnerable, many of whom are pensioners, and stating: protected the NHS, but those restrictions caused disruption “The triple lock should be replaced with a double lock...pensions to the economy, including preventing many people from would still rise, but less quickly, reducing the fiscal burden on the working, wages falling and, sadly, many people being working-age population”. made redundant. In addition to those receiving basic and new state As we sought to protect lives, so we sought to protect pensions, this adjustment will apply to those receiving livelihoods. To mitigate the worst impacts, we introduced standard minimum guarantee in pension credit, and a £407 billion package of support, including the furlough widows’and widowers’benefits in industrial death benefit. and self-employment schemes, to support incomes. The Bill will not extend to other benefits that are linked Nevertheless, last year we saw earnings fall by one to prices, which I will review under the existing legislation, percentage point. In response, we legislated to set aside as I did last year. the earnings link, allowing me to award an uprating of The Government are committed to ensuring that 2.5%, as that was higher than inflation. If we had not older people can enjoy their retirement with security, done that, state pension would have been frozen. dignity and respect, and that those who have worked Thanks to our vaccination programme, which started hard and put in for decades can be confident that the with the eldest and most vulnerable in our society, we state will be there to support them when they need it. have seen that as the economy and businesses have Since 2010, the full yearly basic state pension has increased reopened and millions have moved off furlough and by over £2,050 in cash terms. There are also 200,000 returned to work, the labour market has shown strong fewer pensioners in absolute poverty, both before and signs of recovery and earnings have risen at an after housing costs, than in 2009-10. unprecedented rate. We face a distorted reflection of I am proud of our record on support for pensioners earnings growth. The latest Office for National Statistics and of the action we took last year to ensure that figures from August show an increase in average weekly pensioners’ incomes continue to increase despite falling earnings of 8.8%, compared to the same time last year. earnings among working-age taxpayers. Our recovery is Confirmed figures will be published next month, but we based on the principles of fairness and sustainability as expect growth of 8% or more for May to July 2021. The we level up opportunities across the country, invest in relevant period earnings are taken into account as part jobs, skills and public services while repairing the public of my uprating review. finances. This is the fair and reasonable course of action, This year, as restrictions have lifted and we experienced given the temporary statistical anomalies in earnings we an irregular statistical spike in earnings over the uprating have seen this year as a result of unprecedented interventions review period, I am clear that another one year adjustment in the economy and the labour market. I commend this is needed. So tomorrow, I will introduce the social statement to the House. security (uprating of benefits) Bill. For 2022-23 only, it will ensure that basic and new state pensions increase by 2.28 pm 2.5% or in line with inflation, which is expected to be the higher figure this year. As happened last year, it will Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): again set aside the earnings element for 2022-23, before I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of her being restored for the remainder of this Parliament. statement and for our telephone conversation this morning That will ensure pensioners’ spending power is preserved after the Cabinet meeting informing me that it would occur. and protected from higher costs of living, but also I believe Governments should keep their manifesto ensure that as we are having to make difficult decisions promises. It may be out of fashion—it may even seem elsewhere across public spending, including freezing old-fashioned—but that is what I believe and that is public sector pay, pensioners are not unfairly benefiting what is right. Before I address this announcement, I from a statistical anomaly. At a time when we have want to make some observations about the triple lock made tough decisions to restore the public finances policy itself. The UK state pension is low by international which have impacted working people, such as freezing comparison. It compares better when pension credit and income tax personal thresholds at current levels, that the NHS are folded in, and a lot better when occupational would not be fair. Setting aside the earnings element is pensions are considered, but the core state pension itself temporary and only for one year. This means we can is still very important for millions of pensioners. The and will apply the triple lock as usual from next year for last Labour Government drastically reduced the link the remainder of this Parliament, in line with our between old age and living in poverty, but there can be manifesto commitment. no room for complacency. The triple lock and the issue 187 Pensions Update 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Pensions Update 188 of indexation of the state pension is fundamentally I hope that the House will endorse it in the forthcoming about what the value of the state pension will be in legislation—to set aside the earnings link, as we did last future for working people today when they retire. I reject year,recognising the challenges of covid and the implications the presentation of this issue as a source of intergenerational that that would have had last year directly on pensioners. tension or unfairness, because we all have an interest in There is the same fairness of approach here. ensuring that there is a decent state pension in future. I do not intend, as is usual, to publish legal advice. We should never present increased longevity as a That legal advice is quite straightforward. I would problem. The fact that people are living longer is a good summarise it as “The best way to introduce this temporary thing and it has come about because we have an NHS, set-aside is through legislation, just as we did last year.” because the school leaving age is no longer 14, and I intend to take this forward on that basis. because pioneering Ministers of the past, such as Barbara As for making comparisons with other countries, I Castle, were prepared to fight for a decent pension and am conscious that we have a substantial amount of retirement system. There is no doubt that the triple lock occupational pension here. We also have a whole fringe has made a significant contribution to restoring the of pensioner benefits alongside it that are not necessarily value of the state pension following the Thatcher available in many other countries. Just this year alone, Government’s decision to break the link with earnings which is about to come to an end, while the pension cost in 1980. is about £105 billion, we are spending about £129 billion Turning to the Secretary of State’s proposals, the directly on pensioners. We have genuinely shown a Government’s case, which is that the furlough data and measured approach to supporting pensioners during the pandemic have produced a statistical aberration, our time in office. We think this is a sensible thing that has to be considered by us alongside the other decision will be broadly welcomed by the public, recognising the made today, which also breaks the promises in the balancing act that we continue to face. Conservative manifesto. Of course, we know that the promise on international aid was also broken before Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): the recess. It is more a triple let-down than a triple lock. Government Members should be incredibly proud of This decision is not a one-off but a significant repudiation the state pension triple lock. It has transformed the of the basis on which the Government were elected and state pension landscape for retired people—no more it would be naive to say otherwise. derisory 75p pension increases, as we saw when Labour I say to the Secretary of State that we simply cannot was in government—and it has become a key part of take the Government on their word alone. Will they the defences that we have built around pensioners to show us their analysis that has led to this decision? Will protect them from poverty. Does my right hon. Friend they explain why they could not assess the underlying agree that the triple lock that we put in place was never levels of wage growth with the impact of furlough designed for a set of fiscal events of the kind that we discounted? Will they publish the legal advice cited as have been through over the last 18 months? The difficult the basis for this decision? Only then could any Opposition decision that she has come to is the right one. When I or any MP make a decision on what is being proposed. talk to pensioners in my constituency and elsewhere Finally, while the Prime Minister is well known for about the difficult challenges that we face, they understand making and breaking promises at will, and for frequently that. Wejust need to explain it clearly and with compassion. being economical with the facts, that does come at a cost. That cost is a lack of trust, so I hope the Secretary Dr Coffey: My right hon. Friend is right that the of State appreciates that pensioners and workers, as triple lock policy was never anticipated for these well as the Opposition, need fuller reassurance before extraordinary times. He will know that, as a former any decision can be made on prospective legislation. Secretary of State. The Lib Dem Pensions Minister, who served a five-year term, has also publicly said again Dr Coffey: I thank the hon. Gentleman for having today, as well as recently, that it was simply not designed read the statement and for recognising some of the for this sort of situation. I believe that the pensioners in challenges that we face. I accept that it is his role and our country are wise people. They will recognise that a that of the Opposition to suggest that the Government statistical anomaly is not the basis for the uplift this are not taking the right course of action. However, this year. Some people will of course be keen to encourage is where I disagree with him. He referred to the earnings more people to take up pension credit. We estimate that link that was dropped in, I think, the late ’70s or early only three in four of the people who could get the ’80s. It was not reinstated by the Labour party until the benefit are taking it up, in terms of the income guarantee, late noughties and was not commenced until the coalition and we will continue to encourage people to do so. Government were in place. That is why we have followed Nevertheless, this is a sensible approach and I thank my the triple lock policy for the last decade, recognising right hon. Friend for his support. that we wanted to restore the earnings link and to see an increase in pensions overall. We have made good progress David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP):I, too, thank the on that, as I set out, with the £2,050 cash-terms increase Secretary of State for advance sight of her statement. in just over a decade. Today’sbonanza of manifesto commitments being broken We have used the earnings link since the policy came is like nothing we have ever seen before. I do not think I into effect a decade ago, and we have done this on the have seen this many U-turns in one day since I sat my same basis. As for trying to mess about with different driving test back in 2007. Not only have the Tories bits of earnings, the Office for National Statistics produced hiked national insurance, but now they are waging war some data but we did not find it necessarily reliable, in on pensioners’ incomes by watering down the triple lock. terms of what could be considered as a substantiated Despite all of today’s spin and smoke and mirrors, let basis to make the change. I have made the recommendation us be clear what the Secretary of State’s announcement to the Government—that has been endorsed today and means for pensioners all across these islands. It is a clear 189 Pensions Update 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Pensions Update 190

[David Linden] because of how the machinery of benefit upratings works, we need to be in a position to trigger it in violation of the contract offered to voters by a Tory November. Given my hon. Friend’s position on the Prime Minister who says one thing yet does another Work and Pensions Committee, he may wish to ask that after he gets a whopping majority in Parliament. The question a little later once we have some more detailed state pension is by far the largest source of income for analysis in that regard, if that is okay. UK pensioners and the triple lock has maintained this throughout the pandemic, but we know that pensioner Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I poverty is on the rise and the UK’s state pension is call the Chair of the Select Committee. already the lowest in Europe. Today’s announcement demonstrates that there is no prospect of closing that Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): Is it still the Secretary gap with a Westminster Tory Government that Scotland of State’s view that it is important that the level of the did not vote for and has not voted for since the 1950s. basic state pension keeps track with earnings over time, Pensioners in independent countries comparable to as the coalition pension reforms assumed? If so, will it Scotland’ssize or smaller receive a much higher proportion not require some further adjustment after these two of the average working wage than UK pensioners. Today’s exceptional years? Given that pensioner poverty was statement provides yet more clear blue water between starting to increase before the pandemic, after a long an uncaring, austerity-obsessed Government in London period in which, as she said, that did not happen, what and the prospect of a fully empowered independent will her Department do to increase the currently very Scottish Parliament that will ensure dignity and fairness low take-up of pension credit? in retirement. Given that Scottish pensioners clearly Dr Coffey: In response to the first part of the right cannot trust the British Government, will the British hon. Gentleman’squestion, the legislation is there regarding Government now devolve powers relating to the state the earnings link and we are maintaining that. We will pension to Scotland’s Parliament, or is it easier for be doing further analysis to understand what proportion Scotland to just vote for independence and end pensioner of median earnings the pension will be, but I have no poverty from London once and for all? plans to change aspects of it. We think it is a sensible Dr Coffey: The hon. Gentleman may want to speak approach that we have taken to redress the balance, to his Cabinet Secretary because, at the moment, the which had moved away. Scottish Government are not using the powers that have Forgive me, but I have forgotten the second part of already been devolved. I am conscious that they intend the right hon. Gentleman’s question. [HON.MEMBERS: to but it is taking quite a lot longer. One of the reasons “Pension credit.”] Okay. The thing about pension credit given by them, reasonably, is the impact of covid. is that it is split in two: the income guarantee and the However, he may wish to take this up with his colleagues savings credit. As I said to the House, our estimate is in Holyrood. that 75% of people we think could be eligible take up I am conscious of the concerns about pensioner the income side of pension credit, but the savings side poverty. As I mentioned, we have seen a reduction, with has a much lower take-up. That is because sometimes about 200,000 fewer pensioners in absolute poverty when people do the calculation, it may be just 1p or 2p a before and after housing costs than over a decade ago. week and they may not think it worth while to do the We want to maintain that. It might be informative to whole application. However, even with the savings credit the House if I mention that material deprivation, one of side of pension credit come things like the free TV the other measures of poverty, is at an all-time low, with licence and access to other benefits, so we encourage 6% of pensioners considered materially deprived. The people to take it up. With the income side, we estimate overall trend of pensioners living in poverty has seen a that three in four eligible pensioners are taking it up. dramatic fall in recent decades. That started off with the Conservative Government and then continued with the John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Will the Secretary Labour Government. We have seen that halve since of State promise to publish, at the point when she 1990. However, I assure the hon. Gentleman that this makes her final determination of the proposed increase, measure is for one year only. That will be on the face of a three-year smoothed average or some other suitable the Bill, and I am confident that that will not be computation so that we can see that the spirit of the amended. promise has been kept, even if the letter could not be because of the strange gyrations of the earnings figure? Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): Will the Secretary I think that people would be reassured if they felt that of State confirm that this is a one-year change and that over the longer period we had met that requirement. she is not taking the various suggestions to scrap the triple lock completely, so it will be restored from next Dr Coffey: I cannot give that commitment to my year? Secondly, does she believe that when we have put right hon. Friend today, because I do not know exactly this rise through, the pension will realistically have what it involves, so I will take his request away and roughly kept pace with the rise in earnings over the consider it. I want to emphasise that overall we have three-year period from before the start of the pandemic, seen a variety of increases over the past decade owing to or does she think that the rise will end up being a bit less the triple lock policy. I am confident, as I have flagged than earnings on a real basis for the average worker already, that we have seen a substantial increase in around the country? pensioner income as a result of that policy thus far. Dr Coffey: It would probably not be wise for me to go Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD): First, may down that route, because we are still trying to estimate I congratulate the Government on quite an afternoon? the likely uplifts in the different metrics. We will not One afternoon, two statements,two broken promises—even actually use the figures until later in the year, but for this Government, that is quite an achievement. 191 Pensions Update 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Pensions Update 192

Despite all the problems that we have heard about, available for people to take up where there is a pension the triple lock was designed to protect pensioners, 2 million already. We have done a significant campaign in the of whom live in poverty in this country, from the days past year to improve take-up of pension credit and we when all they could expect was a 75p increase. Will the will continue to signpost people accordingly to take Secretary of State clarify two things? First, she said in advantage of the benefits that are available to some of her statement that the earnings link was set aside last our poorest pensioners. year because of earnings falling by one percentage point. My understanding of the triple lock was that it Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): There would always mean the higher of 2.5% inflation or is no glossing over this announcement. The suspension earnings, so would the percentage not have been of the triple lock will come as a blow to many pensioners 2.5% anyway? Secondly, would she be prepared to put it in Denton and Reddish—it is a broken promise from in writing, in legislation, that this is only for one year, so this Government. that pensioners do not feel that they have been asked to I know that the prime reason for this statement was take the word of a Government whose word is not the uprating announcement, but it was badged as a worth the paper it is written on? pensions update. May I express my dismay that the Secretary of State has not taken the opportunity to Dr Coffey: The one year will be set out in the Bill, respond to the ombudsman’sfinding of maladministration which I expect to be published tomorrow. As I have in respect of the 1950s-born women’s pensions issue? said, Steve Webb—the former Lib Dem pensions Minister, When will she comment on that? who probably knows more about pensions than any other member of the Liberal Democrat party—has Dr Coffey: The hon. Gentleman may not be aware of been very public about the fact that this is a pragmatic how the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman approach, in effect, and it is not what this was designed works in this inquiry specifically.The inquiry is happening for. I also point out that, when I made a similar statement in a staged process; we are not expected to give a last year, the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy response, because the process is not yet over. Unusually, Chamberlain), who usually speaks on DWP matters for the ombudsman has chosen to publish part of the the Liberal Democrats, asked about what would happen judgment thus far, and there are further stages to come. next year and whether we should anticipate that something The hon. Gentleman might want to read carefully the like this approach might be needed again. That was a statement that was made, because he should be aware fair question, but it was important that we took things that the period of maladministration is linked to the one year at a time because we did not know the future years between 2005 and 2007, when the Labour impact. Government were in power. As I have already articulated to the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), this will be for one Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): We have become used to year only. The setting aside of the earnings link is the Government’s breaking of manifesto pledges, for because earnings are built into the Pensions Act. If we instance on overseas aid and a border in the Irish sea, had not changed the law last year, we would not have but today we have had two in one day, which is pretty been allowed by law to have increased the state pension remarkable. First, we heard the Prime Minister announce at all; it would have been frozen in cash terms. Just as that he would break his pledge not to increase national last year we set aside the earnings link to allow the insurance—which was not just in the manifesto, but uprating and ensure that state pensions were not frozen, something he had specifically singled out and pledged this year we are setting it aside to correct for the fact not to do—and now we have heard about the breaking that we have a statistical anomaly. of the triple lock, which was put in place by the last Labour Government and which played a significant Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): It is part in reducing pensioner poverty. quite clear that this is one of a number of very difficult We have heard from the Secretary of State that the decisions that we are having to make, and I think most Department is doing some work to advertise pension reasonable people understand the reason: the pandemic credit and encourage uptake, but we did not really hear and its impact on our economy. We do not do this from her any specifics, or any urgency, about the need to lightly—we do it with a heavy heart—but it is the deal with the under-claiming of pension credit. So will responsible thing to do. I have actually had emails from she give us some more details about what she is intending constituents who are pensioners, saying that they should to do? not get an 8% increase this year, because they understand that these are very unique circumstances. Dr Coffey: As I have already pointed out, in terms of I am grateful that the Secretary of State has confirmed income guarantee, three in four of the people we have that this will be a one-year change. Will she also lay out estimated may be eligible are taking up the approach. what the Government have in place to support the Ultimately, it is for people to apply for this extra benefit. lowest-paid and poorest pensioners at this time? Relative to earnings, the state pension is now the highest that it has been in 33 years, so the policy that we Dr Coffey: Before I answer my hon. Friend’s question, have undertaken has been well and truly honoured. I I need to correct part of my last answer: the earnings believe that, because this constitutes a statistical anomaly, link is not in the Pensions Act, but in the Social Security it is not an appropriate way in which to be using our Administration Act 1992, so apologies for that. public finances. I am very conscious that pensioners will My hon. Friend is right. I am conscious that we want expect us to be taking a sensible approach to sustaining to help our pensioners at this difficult time. I have the public finances, and a statistical anomaly is not one already referred to some of the benefits that may be of the approaches that I believe they would accept. 193 Pensions Update 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 194

Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): May Transport (Disabled Passenger Charter) I press the Secretary of State on the point raised by the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order about the women born in the 1950s, who have paid No. 23) national insurance contributions for at least 40 years? Many are having to continue working through ill health 2.54 pm or else face financial hardship or claim benefits, and Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): I beg to now they face higher national insurance contributions. move, Regardless of which party is responsible for the That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish a passenger maladministration that occurred, the Parliamentary and charter for disabled land transport passengers setting out their Health Service Ombudsman has found that there was rights, the legal obligations of transport operators, complaints maladministration. Perhaps more important, at the time procedures, passenger assistance schemes and accessibility of the last general election, many Tory MPs made requirements; and for connected purposes. promises to the WASPI women which have yet to be This week, our Paralympic heroes return from Tokyo, fulfilled. What I would like to hear from the Secretary basking in glory and adorned with medals after a of State today is whether she can give them any hope for stunning fortnight of gruelling competition and thrilling the future—any hope that she will revisit the issue of battles, yet amid all the cheers that they arrive home to, compensation. many will also be greeted by the same barriers that disabled people face day in and day out. More than one Dr Coffey: I appreciate that this is a statement about in five of our constituents live with a disability—more the uprating, but let me just remind the hon. and than 14 million in total. Disabled people deserve every learned Lady of the situation relating to the change in opportunity to live their lives to the full, but they face state pension age. It was voted through by Parliament in particular challenges simply getting around, for the 1995, and there have been changes in the last decade. purpose of work, socialising or everyday necessities. The Supreme Court made a ruling. We have been through Our public transport system is poorly integrated and the cases, and the right of Parliament to set the pension can be a frustration for many of us, but far more so for age has been upheld, so we will not be reviewing anything disabled passengers who may take longer at interchanges, to do with the state pension age in response to the and may need help or support in embarking or WASPI campaign. disembarking or to recognise destinations. For disabled passengers, predictability is at a premium and up-to-date Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab): Given that the information is essential, as they may need to plan well Secretary of State and every other Tory MP stood on a in advance for even a relatively simple journey. manifesto commitment not to increase national insurance contributions and hit the lowest paid—whom people To provide a snapshot, here is the experience of gladly applauded every Thursday some months ago—and Charles, as related to Scope, the disability equality also affirmed the retention of the triple lock, how on charity. He said: earth can the people of Weaver Vale and people across “Like many disabled people, I rely on public transport. Britain trust a word that the Secretary of State or any Travelling can be a frustrating part of my day, especially Members on those Government Benches utter in this as someone who has a limited amount of vision remaining. place? I’m the proud owner of a guide dog called Carlo. He’s very excitable and eager to be outside for walks and Dr Coffey: I think that the people of this country are adventures. Carlo fundamentally gives me my freedom very wise. I think that they will have seen the £407 billion and ability to visit new places, but without public transport, package provided by this Government to support taxpayers. we’d both be stuck. I was brought up using public We are doing our best to protect lives and livelihoods, transport and try not to depend on anyone to drive me and I am absolutely convinced that our pensioners will places, so I’m quite confident and independent. My not want to statistical anomaly to be the basis of a biggest challenge with public transport is the amount of pension uplift when they recognise the challenges that time involved with planning. A trip can take me double, this country has faced and what it has been through. I or even triple the time to travel. Not to mention, having strongly believe that we are doing the right thing, and to leave almost an hour early in case of the usual delays I hope that it will gain the support of the House when or cancellation of services.” we present the legislation. Beyond the necessities of using public transport, for many disabled people, it is a point of pride to be able to BILL PRESENTED do so, a demonstration and unlocking of their ability to lead independent lives. We should be determined to make our transport as accessible as possible. However, MISUSE OF FIREWORKS BILL according to a 2019 survey of disabled people for Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Scope, 30% said that difficulties with public transport Sarah Owen, supported by Rachel Hopkins, presented had reduced their independence, and as many as four in a Bill to make provision about offences relating to the five said that they felt stressed or anxious when planning misuse of fireworks and penalties for such offences; and or carrying out such a journey. It is worth emphasising for connected purposes. that the survey was pre-covid, so did not even take into Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on account the additional fears that disabled people will Friday 21 January 2022, and to be printed (Bill 156). have faced in travelling on public transport over the past couple of years—not least those unable to wear masks, who have often been unreasonably challenged about this. 195 Transport (Disabled Passenger 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Transport (Disabled Passenger 196 Charter) Charter) There has been much legislation and regulation to said they had not complained about a problem because improve disabled people’s rights over the past quarter- they did not know if they had the right to do so. century, but many of those well-intended rules have Disabled people deserve better. added up to a patchwork of rights across different This is why my Bill would bring together the pre-existing modes of transport, both for accessing travel and for rules into a passenger charter for disabled people. This raising complaints when disabled people have been let would be a simple, accessible document covering all down. If complaints are not made, we cannot know modes of land transport and setting out exactly what whether existing regulations are being properly followed disabled passengers can expect, no matter where or how or enforced. The Office of Rail and Road’s annual rail they are travelling. Taking this step would bolster the consumer report 2019 stated that an average of a quarter confidence of disabled passengers in their rights, and of disabled passengers had not received all the signpost how to get recompense if they deserve it. assistance they had booked, which had left them Adding such transparency and accountability should frighteningly stranded, or humiliatingly relying on asking also improve the services required. for assistance from fellow passengers. However,we deserve A single document would also expose where there are to know the accurate numbers to improve this unacceptable currently irregularities, gaps in provision or other anomalies situation. that can be addressed. This may involve differences Let me give another example of testimony. Here is between providers or concepts that are not universally Ami’s story, again courtesy of Scope. She said: recognised, such as quiet areas for people with autism. Codifying a charter for disabled passengers would help “There have been countless times, when my mum has booked operators as well as travellers. I hope that the Government assistance and yet they don’t turn up until the last minute, causing and Members across the House will agree that this is a me a great deal of anxiety. On two occasions, other passengers simple, inexpensive step that we can take to improve the have had to lift me in my wheelchair on and off the train because quality of life of disabled people across the country. assistance never arrived. This is dangerous, not only for me, but for the passengers that are lifting me too. If it were not for their Before I finish, I want to thank Scope for its research kindness, then we wouldn’t have gotten home, or been able to and tireless campaigning for these measures, and my attend important appointments. Quieter stations understandably hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian have less staff, but they’re often more efficient when assistance is Greenwood), whose excellent work on preparing and needed. It’s the bigger and busier stations that need to look into championing this Bill was halted only by her well-deserved why some disabled people are not receiving a positive experience promotion. I am glad to see her here today. when assistance is required.” Question put and agreed to. Problems or distressing circumstances can arise across Ordered, all sorts of types of transport, including fear of being That Charlotte Nichols, Lilian Greenwood, Huw overcharged for a taxi journey, not knowing whether a Merriman, Alan Brown, Jim Shannon, Jamie Stone, parent with a pushchair will make space for a wheelchair Florence Eshalomi, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Paula Barker, on the bus, or pre-booked assistance not turning up to Kim Johnson, Ian Byrne and Navendu Mishra present help a disembarkation from a train. In each case it is the Bill. more difficult than it needs to be for a disabled traveller Charlotte Nichols accordingly presented the Bill. to look up their rights or indeed to lodge a complaint. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on According to Scope’s survey, one in six disabled people Friday 3 December, and to be printed (Bill 157). 197 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 198

Point of Order Elections Bill Second Reading 3.4 pm Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I raise must inform the House that the reasoned amendment in this point of order in response to my question yesterday the name of the Leader of the Opposition has been on the fact that I have received no substantial response selected. I also want to add that I will only call people to any cases relating to Afghanistan. The Prime Minister who have put in to speak and who are here at the said yesterday that beginning of the debate. They will be expected to be “by close of play today every single one of the emails from here for the wind-ups as well. colleagues around this House will be answered”.—[Official Report, 6 September 2021; Vol. 700, c. 26.] 3.5 pm By this morning, I had still received no response to any of my cases, and I have received a further 17 cases to The Minister for the Constitution and Devolution (Chloe which I have received no substantial response. Can you Smith): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a please advise me on how the Prime Minister can be Second time. encouraged to come back to the House and correct the I look forward to a thorough and thoughtful debate record, and on how I can ensure that I receive responses across the House. Indeed, our work in Parliament is a to these urgent cases without further delay? key pillar of our democracy, a democracy that is underpinned by free and fair elections. Like many public Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I services across the UK, our electoral services have not thank the hon. Lady for that point of order. I understand been untouched by the pandemic. Earlier this year, we her concern about this. I know that undertakings were faced unprecedented challenges in delivering the most made yesterday, and the House will want to see them complex combination of polls in memory during a fulfilled, so I very much hope that those on the Treasury pandemic. Many suggested we should postpone the Bench will have heard her point of order and will relay elections for a second time, but I was not willing to it back to the Prime Minister and his office, to ensure deprive people of the chance to have their say without that those undertakings are fulfilled. having done everything in our power to try. That was why the Government provided an additional £32 million of funding, sourced over 5,000 volunteers to support electoral teams and took creative steps to ensure that people could cast their vote. I am proud of the ingenuity and determination displayed by so many to ensure that our citizens were able to exercise their democratic rights. That is no less than I would expect, given the passion and capability of what is often a small number of election staff in our local authorities, to whom I pay tribute today. We cannot take them, or the system, for granted. We are the stewards of a fantastic democratic heritage. We committed in our manifesto to secure the integrity of elections, restore constitutional balance and defend our democracy against increasingly sophisticated threats. This Bill keeps our elections secure, fair, transparent and up to date. Part 1 of the Bill is about getting the basics of our elections right by updating the security and integrity of the ballot. That is why it introduces new measures that will stamp out the potential for voter fraud from our elections. There are some who suggest that this is not a problem, but I would like to disagree. Interlinked types of fraudulent criminality are a very real threat to the integrity of our elections. Clear evidence of this was seen at the 2014 election scandal in Hamlets, where the mayoral contest was declared void due to corrupt and illegal practices. The judgment in the case and the witnesses who spoke at the trial tell a story of harm and fraud that struck at an entire community and fatally undermined democracy. Recalling crowds harassing voters, one witness reported: “I got into conversation with an elderly lady who was frightened to go in and vote and said that she had decided not to vote as a result of the intimidation.” Another witness described her experience of having her vote stolen by a campaigner for a candidate she did not support. She recalled: 199 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 200

“They came to me and took my signature and then took the We already have an election check, but the check is so blank ballot paper from me. I normally go to the polling station. I outdated and unfit for purpose that many have forgotten told them I was used to doing it myself and didn’t understand it. People already identify themselves when they go to why it was different this year.” the polling station, but it is a Victorian test of saying Crucially, although it is much harder to identify and their name and address. The world has moved on, and prosecute, we know that personation was also one of we need to move with it. Showing photo identification the corrupt and illegal practices that took place in is a reasonable and proportionate way to confirm that a Tower Hamlets. The Electoral Commission has noted person is who they say they are. Many people would that question why it is not already the case. “the majority of people in communities affected by electoral fraud are victims rather than offenders.” Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): A pensioner This is unacceptable. Why should criminals get two can bring their bus pass as identification, but the Bill votes, or even more, and their victims lose their voices? disproportionately disadvantages young people who cannot bring their student card or university or college Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab): identification. Will those young people not be Would the Minister accept that, while some of these disproportionately affected, and should we not expand measures might be necessary, we have only a 30% turnout the range of identification that is recognised by the Bill, in some of our elections and this could make turnout as a minimum? even lower due to the added bureaucracy and the added information that people will need to provide in order to Chloe Smith: I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman cast their ballot? is getting into the detail of what is actually being proposed, which is excellent. He makes the important Chloe Smith: I am pleased the hon. Lady has made point that schedule 1 has a widespread and broad-based that point so early in the debate. I join her, as I want list of identification. In fact, 98% of the population everyone here to do, in welcoming turnout and in hold those forms of ID. wanting to raise registration and participation in our elections. Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): I will more precisely address the points that the hon. These proposals were trialled in 2019, and during that Lady understandably makes because, no, I do not think trial 2,000 people were turned away for not having the these measures will damage turnout. The point is that correct form of identification. Of those 2,000, 700 did the vulnerabilities in our system let people down. The not return to vote. Whether it is voter suppression is a 2016 report on electoral fraud by Sir Eric Pickles, now question of semantics, but it is hardly encouragement, Lord Pickles, leading international election observers is it? and the Electoral Commission all agree that those vulnerabilities are a security risk. As the noble Lord Pickles said, Chloe Smith: Under this Bill, as is clear in the impact “our well-respected democracy is at threat from unscrupulous assessment and the associated documents, there will be people intent on subverting the will of the electorate”. a widespread public communication campaign to ensure We must do our utmost to guard against that, and we awareness so that people know what to bring with them must have measures in place to discourage and prevent to the polling station, which is only right. That is it. exactly what we would expect, because we want people to be able to take part in our elections. Part 1 of the Bill therefore introduces what many would consider to be an obvious requirement—the requirement to prove that the vote a person is casting Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): The Minister that day is theirs and theirs alone. is making an excellent speech introducing the Bill. There is another side to this issue, as pointed out by the Electoral Commission’s research showing that two in Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab): Does the three people would feel much more confident in the Minister agree that voter ID is actually voter suppression, security of our voting system if there were voter ID. and that this Bill misses an opportunity for real engagement Surely that has to be taken into consideration by those in not giving 16 and 17-year-olds the opportunity to who have been intervening. vote? Does she agree that this is the perfect time to do that? Chloe Smith: My right hon. Friend makes my next Chloe Smith: The short answer is no, no and no, and I point for me, and she is right. It is important that we am happy to explain why. I am sure we will get on to this think about what will increase confidence in our elections, in the debate, but the point about voter identification is and I would love the message to go out loud and clear that it is not voter suppression or voter disenfranchisement, from the Chamber today, and from the reporting and which is a word we occasionally hear thrown around. In discourse on this Bill, that we all want participation and fact, I look forward to Labour Members explaining why we want to talk up our election system rather than their reasoned amendment suggests that people will be talking it down. removed from the franchise for general elections. Where I understand there are genuine concerns about this in the Bill is the clause that does that? They will not find change and our plans to implement it, which is why I it, of course, because it is not there. The Bill does not have met many organisations that represent voters from do that, and we should be careful with the words we different backgrounds to understand what challenges it choose to use, such as “voter suppression” and may present. I will continue to listen and to benefit from “disenfranchisement.” their wisdom. 201 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 202

Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): I was card, there will be an opportunity for everybody who is concerned to hear the Minister imply that concerns eligible to vote to continue to do so. That is fundamental about voter suppression are somehow party political. to the concerns that have been expressed. Does she accept that the cross-party Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a member, found that John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I am pleased that the the Minister is taking fraud seriously and has come “introduction of a voter ID requirement may have a discriminatory forward with sensible proposals. Is it not the case that, impact on certain groups with protected characteristics who are in a world of mass fraud, we are all getting used to less likely to hold…photo ID, including older people and people having to provide ID and digital identification? Is it not with disabilities”? the case that many employees, including Members of Inclusion Scotland backs up that concern. Given that Parliament, need a photo pass even to go to work? cross-party finding, what plans do the Government have to mitigate any discriminatory impacts on these Chloe Smith: I will make two points on that. The first groups? is that we show identification in everyday life, and reasonably and proportionately so. For example, we Chloe Smith: It might not have been the intention of show it when we pick up a parcel or apply for a range of the hon. and learned Lady to assist me in making this other services. Let me give a word of reassurance to my case, but she does because she allows me to make the right hon. Friend and to my right hon. Friend the critical point that this scheme is underpinned by a free Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), who local voter card. I have already mentioned that 98% of is sitting behind him: what we have with this scheme is people already hold the identification that will be asked not a form of ID database, beyond, of course, that for by the scheme. For those who do not, we are making which is already there in the electoral registers. I offer sure there is the free alternative of a local voter card. that reassurance in response to an alternative argument that may come out in today’s debate compared with Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): When what we often hear from the left. we cut through the noise, is it not true that the Organisation I am surprised that I need to use the words of a for Security and Co-operation in Europe said that we former Labour Government to say this, but I cannot do cannot have definite security in our elections if we do it plainer than this. When they introduced this policy in not have photo ID? Is it also not the case that we are Northern Ireland in 2003, they said: being asked to continue a practice that puts us outside “If we believed that thousands of voters would not be able to international standards? vote because of this measure, we would not be introducing it at this time.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 1 April 2003; Vol. Chloe Smith: That is exactly the case. Indeed, countries 646, c. 1248.] around the world already operate this system with ease, The Electoral Commission also states: and not only other countries. This policy is already “Since the introduction of photo ID in Northern Ireland there successfully and easily operated inside our own United have been no reported cases of personation. Voters’ confidence Kingdom, and we need to learn from the Northern that elections are well-run in Northern Ireland is consistently Ireland experience. higher than in Great Britain, and there are virtually no allegations of electoral fraud at polling stations”. Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP): The Minister alludes Let me make some progress and set out what else is in to Northern Ireland, which already has this in place. this wide-ranging Bill. I must stress that it is not just What analysis, if any, have the Government made of the in-person electoral fraud that this part of the Bill will situation in Northern Ireland? Can she tell me that the combat, and that is important because criminals use all scheme has not had a negative impact on voter turnout kinds of corrupt behaviour together, as we saw in Tower in Northern Ireland? What analysis has there been, and Hamlets and, sadly, elsewhere. Voting by post or by by whom? proxy are essential tools for supporting voters to exercise their rights, and they must remain available options for Chloe Smith: There is a considerable evidence base on voters who may not wish to, or cannot, vote at a polling what has happened in Northern Ireland, and the Minister station. So this Bill also introduces sensible safeguards of State, Northern Ireland Office, my hon. Friend the against the abuse of postal and proxy voting. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), would be only too happy to respond further to that point later in the Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con): Does the Minister debate. Both he and I are happy to say that there is not agree that often the victims of postal vote harvesting a clear direct link between turnout and this scheme, are those who come from many of the groups that the because turnout can be influenced by lots of different hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West factors. The hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan) (Joanna Cherry) mentioned, including those who do will accept that, especially when he thinks about how not have English as a first language, and that this is a much turnout he would like in a future referendum, for good protection for them and for our democratic process? example. We need to put in place a scheme that commands Chloe Smith: I fear that that may be right. I know confidence, that aids people’s confidence in elections that my hon. Friend and others have experience, for and that will not be discriminatory. In answer to the example at council level, where they may have seen this hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West happening at first hand. Today, I want to allow a Bill to (Joanna Cherry), the work we have done through our make progress that will give confidence that a person’s pilots, modelling and analysis, through the Northern vote is theirs alone, and that is vital. Did we not see that Ireland experience and through working with organisations before when we introduced individual electoral registration? shows us we can be sure that, with the free local voter Voices were saying that it, too, would never work, but 203 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 204 did we not see that it was about reducing the influence Blind people still find it difficult to have this access of the head of the household on who was allowed to through existing legislation. Does the Minister not consider register? That is an important point to remember. that that measure actually weakens the provision that The part of the Bill on postal and proxy voting blind people have? Will she meet the Royal National includes new limits on the number of postal votes that Institute of Blind People and listen to its views, because may be handed in by any one individual, and a limit of it has serious concerns about the clause? four on the total number of electors for whom a person Chloe Smith: I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman may act as a proxy. In order to tackle “vote harvesting”, makes that point, because I know a number of hon. the Bill is also making it an offence for political campaigners Members care about it, and rightly so. I can reassure to handle postal votes issued to others, unless they are him and everybody here today that I have been working family members or carers of the voter. with the RNIB for months and indeed years to make Of course, stealing someone’s vote is not always done the improvements we need to the system for allowing by personation or by taking someone’s ballot physically. blind and partially sighted voters to cast their vote. In As I mentioned, an equally sinister method that we have answer to his specific question, I do not think that the seen is people using intimidation, or pressuring people measures in this Bill weaken that support; I think they to cast their vote in a certain way or not to vote at all. strengthen it, by ensuring that a wider range of voters That is known in the law as “undue influence”. The with disabilities—or, should I say, a wider range of existing legislation on undue influence, which, again, disabilities—may be properly supported at the polling originated in the 19th century, is difficult to interpret station. That is important, as we would not wish some and enforce, so we are providing greater clarity, ensuring to be unsupported by a phrasing in legislation that is that there can be no doubt that it is an offence to now outdated and overly narrow—that is what our intimidate, deceive, or cause harm to electors in order to reform seeks to tackle. influence their vote. I have touched on the ways in which the Bill will Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) combat the silencing of democratic voices by those (Ind): On the Minister’s point about empowering citizens, seeking to influence or steal an individual’s vote, and I she will be aware of reforms in Wales and Scotland will now touch upon more ways in which the Bill will whereby any legal citizen, no matter their nationality, empower our citizens. can vote in our respective parliamentary elections and local elections. This Bill seems to be limiting the ability Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): The of European nationals to vote in local elections in Minister will be aware that loud claims of personation England and in Westminster elections. Why is Westminster were made by the Trump campaign in the United States, going on a totally different path from Wales and Scotland? which were completely without any basis or evidence, Chloe Smith: I am grateful that the hon. Gentleman and which led to an assault on the Capitol building in has raised that point, because there are two things to be Washington that suspended democracy itself. Does she said. The first, which I shall come to shortly in my think that as a Minister she should be promulgating an remarks, is about how we are updating the franchise to evidence-free claim that personation is a widespread reflect the position of EU citizens. The other important problem that needs solving, with the cost being to deny thing, which is worth making clear at this juncture, is millions of people their vote? that parts of the devolution settlements apply to electoral Chloe Smith: Does the hon. Gentleman, as an experienced policy and so it is important to be clear that in this Bill Member of this House, think he should be promulgating we are looking at measures that will apply UK-wide—a such nonsense? I do not think so. full analysis is available, of course, in the Bill documents. That means we will have consistency at parliamentary One of the truest pillars of our democracy is the trust elections, but a natural consequence of devolution is that we place in our citizens’ choices and the respect we that there may be differences at other levels. I think we give their decision. While we make voting in elections would both accept that and seek to work to make those more secure, we also want to ensure that voters who arrangements a success for voters who may experience may still require additional support to navigate that both sets of arrangements and for the hard-working system, such as those with disabilities, have that support. election staff who may administer both sets. This is why we are introducing key changes from our call for evidence on access to elections, extending the As I have completed my remarks on overseas electors, requirements on returning officers to support a wider I shall carry on moving through the Bill. At this point, I range of voters with disabilities and extending the definition wish to address the Liberal Democrats’ reasoned of who can act as a “companion” to anyone aged 18 or amendment. It may come as little surprise that, regrettably, over. they take two opposite positions in one amendment: on the one hand they would like British citizens to participate In the same spirit, looking a little further afield, more—indeed, that was their manifesto position—and part 2 of the Bill will ensure that the voices of British on the other hand they do not. The official policy of the citizens across the world can be heard, and their vote Liberal Democrats is to support votes for life, and the taken into account on matters that do affect them, by policy paper that they published in July 2019 said: removing the 15-year limit on voting rights of British citizens living abroad. “There is no reason why” expats Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): “should be treated any differently to those who continue to live in On people with disabilities, clause 8 talks about people the UK.” who are blind and about I agree. The Bill puts in place tougher measures against “such equipment as it is reasonable to provide for the purposes of foreign interference and foreign money, but overseas enabling, or making it easier for, relevant persons to vote”. British citizens are just that—British—and are therefore 205 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 206

[Chloe Smith] Let me move on to political finance, which right hon. and hon. Members have mentioned. We already have a able both to vote and to donate. There is a long-standing comprehensive regulatory framework for campaigning principle, originally recommended by the Committee that is rooted in the principles of fairness, transparency on Standards in Public Life in 1998, that permissible and the importance of a level playing field. We want to donors are those on the UK electoral register. ensure that our electoral law continues to uphold those principles, which is why part 4 of the Bill will update Mr Carmichael: The Minister references the Committee and strengthen our political finance laws to restrict all on Standards in Public Life; why has she not included in third-party spending to UK-based entities and eligible the Bill any of the Committee’s recommendations on overseas electors; to increase transparency around third- campaign finance? party campaigning at elections and the registration of new political parties; and to prohibit parties and Chloe Smith: I shall come to campaign finance shortly, campaigners from unfairly expanding their spending but is that all the right hon. Gentleman has to say on limits. The Bill will ensure that campaign spending can overseas voters? come only from sources that have a genuine and legitimate Let me turn to the voting rights of EU citizens, an interest in UK elections, by restricting all third-party important subject that has been asked about. Part 2 of spending to UK-based entities and registered overseas the Bill updates the voting and candidacy rights of EU electors, above a £700 minimum threshold. citizens who reside in the UK and moves to a more On the regulation of third-party campaigners, it is reciprocal model that fits our new arrangements. We right that those who campaign at elections and seek to stand by our commitments to those EU citizens who influence voters are subject to transparency requirements were resident here before our exit from the EU, so any and rules that maintain a level playing field. Those EU citizen who was a resident before the end of the principles already apply. The Bill seeks to balance the transition period on 31 December 2020 and has legal burden of regulation, relative to the level of campaign immigration status will retain their voting and candidacy spending, with the importance of a thriving and diverse rights. That goes beyond our obligations under the public debate. withdrawal agreement. For EU citizens who have moved to the UK following our EU exit, local voting and The Bill will not change the definition of what constitutes candidacy rights will be granted on the basis of bilateral controlled expenditure for a third-party campaigner. agreements with the individual EU member states that The Electoral Commission already provides guidance, will reciprocate arrangements for British citizens who developed with third-party groups, on what constitutes live there. such expenditure. To ensure that any other legitimate categories of third party that may emerge in future are We all want to make progress this afternoon, so let not significantly restricted in their ability to campaign, me move on as fast I can through the rest of the Bill. I a power will be given to the Secretary of State to amend have set out the ways in which the Bill will bolster the the list of legal entities eligible to register as campaigners security of our elections; let me move on to the enforcement under section 88(2) of the Political Parties, Elections of electoral law. A critical part of our electoral system is and Referendums Act 2000. Any change to that list and must continue to be effective, independent regulation, made via a statutory instrument will be subject to the and the Electoral Commission has a vital role to play. affirmative procedure and therefore subject to parliamentary Lord Pickles found that the scrutiny in both Houses. The Opposition amendment is “current system of oversight of the Electoral Commission—by simply wrong: the last time I checked, democratic the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission—does not parliamentary procedure on an SI is not “unilateral” provide an effective third-party check on its performance”, change by a Secretary of State. so we think it is right for Parliament to have an increased role. The Bill will introduce a strategy and policy statement Catherine West: The Minister talks about third-party that will provide guidance to which the commission will involvement in our elections. Is she satisfied that the have to have regard in the discharge of its functions. It proposed legislation complies with the recommendations will be subject to statutory consultation, parliamentary from the Russia report from last summer? approval and regular review. We will also improve the parliamentary structures Chloe Smith: Yes, I am. What we are doing in the Bill, that hold the regulator to account. The Speaker’sCommittee as I have already explained, is moving undue foreign on the Electoral Commission currently has a limited influence out of our politics. We are doing that with this remit; the Bill will therefore give it the additional power new category of campaign regulation that we are to examine the commission’s compliance with its duty introducing. I have just referred to it and it includes an to have regard to the strategy and policy statement. above £700 minimum threshold. It ensures that campaign That will allow Parliament to better scrutinise the work spending can come only from sources that have a genuine of the commission. Together, the reforms will facilitate and legitimate interest in UK elections. parliamentary scrutiny of the Electoral Commission’s work while respecting its independence. Catherine West indicated dissent. It is a shame that Her Majesty’s Opposition’s reasoned Chloe Smith: The hon. Lady shakes her head, but amendment misrepresents scrutiny by Parliament and that is what it does, and that is important. misunderstands—or again wilfully misrepresents the fact—that the commission remains governed, in law, by Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): its commissioners. Weare also clarifying that the Electoral We discussed this matter in Westminster Hall back in Commission should not bring prosecutions, and that 2019. As one of my colleagues reminded us, in 2019, the prosecutions should remain with the existing prosecution Conservative party received £400,000, with one donation authorities. coming from the household of a former Russian Minister 207 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 208 under Vladimir Putin eight months after the Salisbury Chloe Smith: Thank you very much, Madam Deputy poisonings. There was also money from a personal Speaker, I shall try to be as quick as I can in concluding friend of the President of Syria, Bashar al-Assad. Does my remarks. the Minister not agree that this does not go far enough The answer to the hon. and learned Lady is that, first, to stop this happening again? we will be responding in full to what the CSPL said. Chloe Smith: I have three points. First, this Bill does There are some very good points and ideas in there that the right thing, as I have just explained. Secondly, the we are already able to deliver through the Bill, such as Conservative party does the right thing with regard to diminishing the extent of foreign influence through our donations, as I am happy to explain and defend at political finance in our system. There is also much more any time. Thirdly, I am already having to pass through that has been drawn out over many years by other so many pages in my briefing to find the bit about the bodies. I am talking about the Select Committees here, SNP because there are quite a few points about how it Members of the Lords, the Association of Electoral handles its donations as well. I do think it is important Administrators and many, many others. There is a lot of that a person gets their house in order before they discussion and debate about how we should keep our accuse others. electoral system safe. I am proud to introduce a Bill that Let me move on to the important matter of notional does the most important and pressing of those, and expenditure. We are talking here about measures that which will have the overall effect of keeping our elections will deliver better transparency for voters and candidates. safe, modern, transparent, fair and inclusive. I am sure that many in this House will welcome the Part 6 of the Bill introduces a new digital imprints clarification of the law on notional expenditure that is regime, which will be one of the most comprehensive in included in the Bill, which will ensure that candidates the world. I think that Members on both sides of the and their agents can continue to conduct full campaigns House will welcome that, because we all agree that without the fear, as found by the Public Administration voters all, rightly, want to know who is talking. The Bill and Constitutional Affairs Committee, will require digital campaigning material to display a “of falling foul of the law through no fault of their own” digital imprint explicitly showing who is behind it—all and inadvertently causing candidates to exceed their year round and wherever they may be in the world. This spending limits. provision will deliver on recommendations made by I will go on now to the new electoral sanction of many to improve public trust and confidence in digital intimidation. A free choice for voters means that anyone campaigns at future elections and referendums. entitled to stand as a candidate must feel able to do so. Without a broad range of candidates for voters to David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): choose from, we diminish representation in this country. Would this measure translate to websites fronted by I am sad to see a rising number of incidents of people political activists masquerading as members of the public trying to exclude others from the debate through violent concerned about a different cause? or illegal behaviour. Voters do not expect violence in our elections. People should not be fearful of expressing their views or standing up in public service. That is why Chloe Smith: Political and election material will be the Bill introduces an additional sanction that will bar included. I look forward to discussing the finer details an individual found guilty of intimidating a candidate, as we work through the Bill. It is incredibly important campaigner or elected representative from running or that we have that transparency so that voters can make holding office for five years on top of their sentence. their choice as they think best. Joanna Cherry rose— Before I close, I need to deal with the Labour party’s amendment and its position—or, should I say, its many Chloe Smith: If the hon. and learned Lady would like positions? It is a mystery to me why the Labour party to come in at this point I will give way, but I think that seems to think that identification is good enough for its that may be one of the last interventions that I take own members, but not for the British electorate. One because I need to make some progress. person, one vote: it is a really simple formula. Why Joanna Cherry: I am just concerned that the hon. would anybody believe that criminals should get two? Lady has moved on from dealing with part 4, which This is not what we ought to believe. Why does the deals with regulation of expenditure, before answering Labour amendment say that the Bill restricts the general the question put by the right hon. Member for Orkney election franchise? I do not think that the hon. Member and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), which is: what will the for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith) will be able to Government do about the recommendations made by explain why, because it does no such thing. Why would the Committee on Standards in Public Life? The Committee the Labour party be doing this? Because it has its own published a very full report after a year of work on murky interests in making it up and misrepresenting the 7 July suggesting a number of recommendations—I Bill. Perhaps the other parties— think that it is 47 practical steps to modernise and streamline the way in which donations and spending are Catherine West: On a point of order, Madam Deputy reported regularly to then enforce. Will she tell us which Speaker. Until this point, the debate was going quite if any of those recommendations she will bring forward well, but that allegation is a disgrace. I ask you to as Government amendments. withdraw it, Minister. Everyone in this Chamber works Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Let very hard in elections and it is in everyone’s interests to me gently remind colleagues that the Minister has been have elections that are well run and well respected. That on her feet now for 33 minutes. I know that many kind of insult makes people denigrate our democracy, colleagues want to contribute, so I am anxious that we which we fight day in, day out to protect, and which make some progress. we cherish— 209 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 210

Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): those recommendations, and the Elections Bill continues Order. The point of order should be addressed to me, to make absolutely no progress on them or on the rather than to the Minister. I can assure the hon. Lady recommendations of many reports that have been published that if anything had been said that was disorderly, I since. In fact, over the past decade the Government would have advised the Minister that it was disorderly. have failed to take any action to modernise our electoral laws or to close the loopholes that allow foreign money Chloe Smith: Thank you for your guidance, Madam to flood into our democracy; this Bill actually makes Deputy Speaker. that threat far greater and does not reduce it at all. I I do hope that the other parties who supported think the reason is very clear and those of us on the today’s amendment have those high standards to which Opposition Benches have seen right through it: it is we all aspire. They will be able to judge clearly where because these laws will lead to benefits for the Conservative they see politicking at play. I also hope that the House party. In the Bill we have before us, the Government can judge that as clearly as was set out in the judgment have not reached out for cross-party consensus as is of the Tower Hamlets case, which stated that the convicted typical for a Bill of this type which massively changes perpetrators electoral law and deals with constitutional matters. It would be normal to see a Speaker’s Committee put “spent a great deal of time accusing their opponents…of ‘dividing the community’ but, if anyone was ‘dividing the community’, it together before such massive changes were brought was they.” forward. There has been no attempt by the Government The judge went on to say, to reach out for a cross-party consensus on a matter as important as our elections and our democracy. “The real losers in this case are the citizens”. As I have set out, the Government’s vision for UK This Bill is a huge missed opportunity to modernise democracy is a system that is secure, fair, modern, our electoral law to bring it into the 21st century and try inclusive and transparent. We have a strong history; a to encourage people to participate in our democracy. robust constitution; a model of democracy that is copied Indeed, our democracy is stronger when more people around the world; a thriving tradition of campaigning take part in it. In this Bill we see that the leaders would and passionate public participation; and the highest like to choose the voters. I believe that the voters should standards of security, fairness and transparency. choose the leaders of their country, yet the flagship part of this Bill is very much about the leaders of this The improvements in the Bill will raise confidence country choosing who are the voters. even further in our elections. They are reasonable, proportionate and carefully planned measures that command support and come from common sense. I Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): I commend the Bill to the House. am a known critic of this Bill, but I will say to the hon. Lady that when I served through over a decade of Several hon. Members rose— Labour Government, they did not once consult the Opposition when they changed electoral law—not once. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): As colleagues will see, a number of Members would like to Cat Smith: For years now, I have stood opposite the speak, so we will start with a time limit of six minutes. Minister responsible for the constitution and we have talked about many ways of improving our democracy. I 3.43 pm had hoped that this Bill would contain some of the many topics that we have discussed across the Dispatch Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): I beg to Box and in Committee, to expand the franchise to make move, it more inclusive. That might include spending the That this House declines to give a second reading to the £120 million that will be spent on the electoral ID Elections Bill, notwithstanding the need for legislation around system to encourage registration to make sure that the digital imprints and some accessibility improvements for disabled millions missing from our electoral roll are included, voters which do not go far enough, because it infringes on the right of expression of the electorate by allowing the Secretary of making it easier for homeless people to register to State to unilaterally modify and select which groups are allowed vote—but no, none of that is included in this Bill, which to campaign during an election period, creates unnecessary barriers would in fact serve to reverse decades of progress. I to entry for voting, makes the Electoral Commission subordinate draw attention to the recent changes made by the Welsh to the executive, would serve to restrict the franchise and thereby Labour Government to expand the franchise to 16 and reduce the overall number of people able to participate in any 17-year-olds. future UK General Election and does not make provision for the UK Parliament to match the devolved nations in Scotland and Some of the Conservative Members here today should Wales by extending the right to vote to 16 and 17 year olds and consider the implications of this Bill for their constituents other disenfranchised groups. whose votes they perhaps relied on to get into this It is a pleasure to speak in today’s debate. Let me House, and how difficult it is for so many people in this begin by quoting: the law governing elections is country to have access to ID, because it is expensive— “voluminous”, “fragmented” and “extremely complex”, £80-odd for a passport and £43 for a driving licence. with some provisions This is a paywall to the ballot box. “dating back to the 19th century”. I used that quote from the Law Commission’s 2016 Mark Fletcher: The Minister set out in her opening report back in 2016, when I first became Labour’s remarks that 98% of people have access to appropriate shadow spokesperson for elections, a role that I still ID already and that a free alternative will be available hold. Since 2016, it is like nothing has happened. The from councils, so I am a little baffled by the argument Government did not make any changes on the back of that the hon. Lady is making. 211 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 212

Cat Smith: Is the hon. Member saying that 2% of his Cat Smith: The hon. Member is absolutely right: this electorate should not have access to democracy? That Bill cannot be seen in isolation. Indeed, the Dissolution appears to be what he is saying. Yes, 98% of people and Calling of Parliament Bill is before the House might well have valid ID, but 2% of the entire UK currently and allows the Government to decide when an electorate is a very large number of people. In fact, to election is held. The Police, Crime, Sentencing and use the Government’s statistics, 3.5 million people do Courts Bill restricts the right to protest. We have to see not have access to valid photo ID. It seems that one arm the Elections Bill in the round and recognise that pieces of the Government does not quite know what the other of legislation are coming one after another. It shows arm of the Government is doing. The Cabinet Office is that this Government are scared of transparency and saying that it is fine and everyone has access to ID, but scared of accountability. the DCMS is saying that we cannot have ID requirements Frankly, in the time of a pandemic, it is disappointing for access to social media sites because not everybody that the Government are spending time to restrict has ID. It seems they say one thing from one Department democracy and not making sure that we have the support and another thing from another Department. we need for our young people to recover or that we are The reality is that requirements for ID discriminate dealing with the crisis in adult social care. There is so against some groups more than others. Concerns have much more that this Government should be getting on been raised from across the House and from charities with doing, but instead we have this 160-page Bill that and campaigning organisations that disabled people, restricts democracy and rigs elections in favour of the older people, younger people and people without the Conservative party, and it is an absolute disgrace. spare cash to buy that passport or driving licence are Turning to the voter ID part of the legislation, the going to be disenfranchised. pilots that took place in 2019 were in just 10 local authority areas in England. This is a UK-wide policy; that is not a reasonable look at the country. The type of Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): Does my voter ID that the Government wish to bring in was hon. Friend agree that there is no such thing as a free trialled in only one of those 10 areas: only in Woking service? If local councils are indeed going to be providing has it been trialled. The Government have the idea of voter ID, it will be at public expense. The £120 million rolling out a policy that could disenfranchise 3.5 million that is due to be spent on that could be better spent on people having only piloted it in Woking. They have the voter registration and boosting turnout rather than a confidence to think it will work across the whole United disproportionate attempt to control the voting of a Kingdom. I believe it is reckless and disenfranchising. minority of people. Several hon. Members rose— Cat Smith: My hon. Friend is exactly right. In fact, Cat Smith: The right hon. Member for Elmet and the Bill contains no details about how local authorities Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) has been trying to get in for are going to roll out this so-called voter ID, which, as some time; I will give way to him. she points out, is not free: it will cost the taxpayer money. This is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money Alec Shelbrooke: I am most grateful to the hon. Lady; trying to look for a problem to solve. she is always extremely generous. Does she completely disregard the recommendations of the OSCE that We know fine well that voter ID will be an additional identification at ballots is an important part of the barrier for voters. It will be an additional barrier even security of the ballot? That is an internationally for the voters that have the relevant ID, because they recommended part of the electoral process. Does she have to remember to take it with them. We are all completely dismiss that recommendation? Members of Parliament—we all go out and campaign—and we know fine well that sometimes on a wet and rainy Cat Smith: It is a pleasure to see the right hon. Thursday it is awfully difficult to get voters down to the Member in his place, and it is always a pleasure to polling station. We should be making sure that our debate these issues with him in very many forums. The elections take place on public holidays. We should be OSCE recommendations are designed to give broad exploring the idea of weekend voting. We should be brushstrokes around the global issues of democracy. It looking at ways of modernising our democracy for the is true that some countries require ID at polling stations, 21st century.This Elections Bill does nothing to modernise but they are countries with a national ID card. We do and everything to put barriers up to participation. The not have a national ID card in this country. It is not part 160 pages of this Bill were written during a global of our culture and I would certainly oppose it, were it pandemic. At a time when our doctors and nurses were proposed. In fact, I believe that the Prime Minister said in our hospitals wearing bin bags because of a lack of that if he were ever asked to produce an ID card, he personal protection equipment, this Government were would eat it. I think there is probably consensus that we drawing up legislation to put barriers up to democracy, are not seeking a national ID card, which is why it is so wasting taxpayers’ money on expensive policies designed surprising that this piece of legislation requires ID to to benefit the Conservative party. exercise the basic fundamental human right of voting in a democratic country. Jonathan Edwards: I am extremely grateful to the Several hon. Members rose— hon. Member for giving way. Does she agree that it is important not just to look at the Bill in isolation? When Cat Smith: This is my final point on this, and then I we add it to things such as the boundary review and the will give way.There is currently a case before the Supreme scrapping of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, Court, brought by Mr Neil Coughlan, who is challenging those of us who are cynically minded see a plan to skew the legality of the pilot trials. That case is not due to be the next election. heard until 15 February next year. If the judge makes 213 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 214

[Cat Smith] Cat Smith: I reassure the hon. Member that I have been a member of the Labour party since 2004—a any rulings from which we could learn something, it will relatively active member—and I have never been asked be too late for this piece of legislation. I suggest to the to show ID at any meetings. Even if I was asked, I Government that their attempts to rush this Bill through would say that political parties are membership before we hear from the Supreme Court is reckless. organisations—we know that members are often expelled There is nothing in the Bill about how local authorities from political parties, as it often hits the headlines—but are meant to be administering the ID. Frankly, Ministers the right to vote in elections in a democracy is a fundamental are living in an alternative reality, where they seem to human right. That is slightly different from being a believe that people are constantly trying to impersonate member of a political party. their neighbours to steal a single vote. I just think that is utterly bizarre. There have been four cases of voter Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): Is the hon. Member as impersonation fraud in the past 10 years. That is from concerned as I am that comparisons from other countries 243 million votes cast. To put that in context, someone show that voter ID requirements disproportionately is more likely to be struck by lightning three times. affect voters from ethnic minority backgrounds?

Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): I take it that the Cat Smith: The hon. Lady makes a good point and is hon. Member is referring to successful prosecutions, absolutely right. Studies from the United States show but one of the problems is that people are not prosecuted that voters from black and Hispanic backgrounds are when they ought to be. I made a speech on 19 December disproportionally affected by requirements to show ID. 2019—I am sure she has pored over every word of Indeed, there are many similarities between the repressive it—in which I pointed out that election officials in voter suppression laws in some US states and this Wycombe are not holding people to account even they legislation. I believe that in Texas a voter can show their are walking into a polling station repeatedly in comedy gun licence to vote but they cannot show a student ID, disguises, doing things like changing their glasses, changing and in the Bill student ID is not a valid piece of their hat, putting sunglasses on, wearing a different coat identification but a bus pass is valid. It seems that one or whatever. They are not being prosecuted, and that is type of ID is more valuable than another, and it seems the problem. that the type of person likely to hold that ID is very much considered when drawing up the acceptable list. Cat Smith: It appears to be all happening in Wycombe. I turn to changes to the regulation of the Electoral I believe that I was there for the hon. Gentleman’s Commission, which seem to be political interference in speech, and I know he takes a keen interest in this issue, the regulation of our elections. There is no doubt that so he will know well that where there are widespread the Government’ssetting the strategy and policy document examples of voter personation, which is a serious crime, for the Electoral Commission is a dangerous precedent. it should be tackled. That is why the law is different in When we look to similar democracies such as Canada, Northern Ireland, where there was a culture of organised New Zealand, and Australia, we see a complete separation crime and gangs stealing hundreds of votes through between Government and their electoral commissions. personation at polling stations; that was legislated against. Indeed, at this morning’s meeting of the Public There is no evidence of that in England, Scotland and Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, Wales, so legislation is not needed. Where there are Helen Mountfield, QC, a barrister at Matrix chambers, examples of voter personation, it is right and proper said that the Bill arguably breaches international law that it is tackled, but as there are not such examples, the and that the removal of the Electoral Commission’s Bill is just legislation that puts up another barrier to independence is “legally problematic” and breaches the legitimate voters’ ability to vote. UK’s constitutional standards. To be blunt, we would In the voter trial areas, which were in just a handful not allow, say, an arsonist to decide the fire brigade’s of local authorities, we know that 700 voters at local strategy and policy direction, and we certainly would elections who were turned away did not return to use not let shoplifters decide the police’s strategy and policy their vote. Given the tiny numbers of accusations of direction. It therefore seems a little bit odd that when it voter personation and the huge numbers of people who comes to regulating political parties, some parties—those were turned away because they did not have ID, we in government—seem to have an awful lot of power to know that the Bill will disproportionately disenfranchise decide the strategy and policy direction of that. legitimate voters. On the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): Thank Commission, this is a Committee that already has an you for your generosity and time. You said clearly that in-built Government majority, and the legislation seeks you think the proposal to introduce voter ID is an to strengthen and increase that majority. If we saw this attempt to rig elections. Is that why the Labour party happening in any other democracy around the world, I requires voter ID to vote in local party gatherings and do not think we would sit back and say that that looked has a long history of that? Have you attempted to rig okay. It does not look okay—it does not pass the sniff your own elections? test—and that bit needs to be changed. The Bill is riddled with attempts to dodge Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): scrutiny.That seems to be the theme that runs throughout Order. Really, the hon. Gentleman is experienced enough this legislation. In a free and open democracy, to know that he should not use the word “you”, which democratically elected Governments are scrutinised by refers to me. opposition parties and civil society. That is part of what makes democracy healthy, and the freedom for civil Anthony Browne: I apologise. society to do this and to hold those in power to account 215 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 216 is the sign of a strong democracy. This Bill is an attack Gordon Brown, and the more sanctimonious the Minister, on some parties more than others, and I would say that the worse the outcome sometimes. It is incumbent on us the attack on the trade unions—the 6 million people to make sure that we do not even accidentally disadvantage who are members of trade unions—is an attack on all the other side in elections. working people’s rights to campaign for fair pay at I want to focus on just one thing today, which is the work and health and safety in the workplace, and it is issue of voter ID. The very fact that the phrase has actually an attack on the people who have got our “ID” in it will tell everybody I am against it—they country through the pandemic. understand that—but it is not for the conventional reasons. This is not an ID system with a database Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op): I am behind it; it is just an ID card that people have to really grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way because present. Our country has over the centuries been different this piece of legislation is alienating civil society. In from other countries: we do not allow our policemen to particular,charities are really concerned about the measures come up to people and say, “Can I see your papers, in this Bill because it is going to have a chilling effect on please?” It is important to maintain that distinction their campaigning, but most of all push them into between the citizen and the state, particularly when we having bureaucratic reporting processes. Does she agree are talking about the fundamental rights of the individual, that these parts of the Bill need removing? such as the right to vote. Cat Smith: I agree entirely. Trade unions are already The Government quite rightly claim that voter fraud incredibly heavily regulated, and charities will feel stifled undermines our democracy—the battle on that has and gagged by the legislation before us. already occurred to some extent—but the primary voter Finally, I want to turn to what the Government are fraud has been in postal votes, not in personation. We calling the so-called votes for life section of the Bill. all know how it has occurred in communities up and Indeed, if we wish to expand the franchise, I would very down the country, and we should deal with it ruthlessly much support the Government if they wanted to extend and prosecute. I say to my hon. Friend the Member for the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. However, it appears Wycombe (Mr Baker), who used to serve with me as a that, at one fell swoop, we seem to be advancing more Minister in the Brexit Department, that the answer to rights to people who do not live in this country than to his question is that the prosecution should happen in people who do live in this country. his constituency. That is what should happen, but let us There is nothing in this Bill that actually helps overseas be clear: since 2014 only three prosecutions have occurred. electors get their ballots back in time. One of the There have been 30-odd allegations but only three complaints I have heard most from overseas electors is prosecutions, and that is out of many tens of millions of that they do not get their ballot papers in time and votes cast. So there have been 30-odd allegations, three cannot get them returned to the UK in time for their prosecutions and zero election outcomes influenced; votes to count. There is nothing in this Bill that explores that is what we must bear in mind. the many different options of using modern technology On the back of that, Ministers will want to introduce to speed up this process to make sure that overseas mandatory voter identification. It is an illiberal solution— electors currently registered under current legislation unsurprisingly coming from the Cabinet Office, as that can actually use their vote. Instead, the motivation is what it always thinks up—in search of a non-existent behind the change to remove the 15-year limit is about problem. [Interruption.] I have at least some support creating a loophole in donation law, and it will give rich on my side of the House. Conservative donors unlimited access to our democracy The Government’s own research found that those in allowing them to bankroll the Tory party. with disabilities, the unemployed, people without I look forward to the Committee stage of this Bill, qualifications, people who had never voted before and and I cannot wait to get into the detail of the clauses in ethnic minorities were all less likely to hold any form of Committee with the Minister, but I shall finish by ID; those are the sorts of groups we are talking about. saying that I do believe this Bill tarnishes our democracy. In two groups—the over-85s and the disabled—between It is an opportunity missed—an opportunity to modernise 5% and 10% had no photo ID. The Joint Committee on our electoral law, put it into one piece of legislation and Human Rights has warned that the introduction of make it fit for the 21sst century, and to use £120 million voter ID may have a discriminatory effect on those to encourage voter participation instead of putting up groups and other protected groups, and the trial referred barriers. The Labour party will therefore be voting to by the Liberal spokesman, the right hon. Member for against this legislation today. I hope that all Members in Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), when 700 people this House will consider the implications for their own did not vote as a result of photo ID being required, constituents, and I commend the reasoned amendment took place in a set of areas where the numbers of people in my name and the names of others. in these groups were very low; it was basically the southern English test area, not central Bradford or wherever. 4.3 pm This is very serious. We are talking about quite a Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): significant fraction of our population. There are 2 million Let me start with a comment relating to the question people in the groups I have described who will have to the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat be met by some ID system, and that must be balanced Smith) raised about the duty on Governments to be against three voter convictions. That is the problem we more than fair when they are dealing with electoral are facing. legislation. Governments should not, even by accident, put in place electoral legislation that advantages themselves Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con): Has my right over their opponents. However, I do have to say to her hon. Friend looked at schedule 1, which contains a very that the most egregious example of that was under broad list of valid means of identification? I would be 217 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 218

[Craig Mackinlay] 4.10 pm very surprised if anybody in the country today did not Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP): have one of them, and my right hon. Friend also knows Fundamentally, this Bill is an attack on democracy that that there is the provision of free ID from the local will disenfranchise millions, entrench more powers with council. the Executive, and remove the power of the Electoral Commission to scrutinise. Like many others, I urge Members not to look at the Bill in isolation but to view Mr Davis: The point I would make is that I am it in the wider context of the other legislation going quoting from Government research. I did not do this through the House at the moment with respect to the research; it is Government research. By the way, since Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, citizens’ right to my hon. Friend draws me to Government research, peacefully protest, and even the proposed privatisation Lord Pickles, a real old pal of mine, did a study on this. of Channel 4. That paints a very bleak picture for our I have read it and, to summarise, the conclusion was, “I democracy. can find no evidence of personation but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, and of course even if it isn’t When the Bill first appeared, in the Queen’s Speech happening now it might well happen in the future.” It is earlier this year, the headline-grabbing proposal was the precautionary principle gone mad in the centre of voter ID, whereby photographic evidence would be our constitution. required before an individual was allowed to cast their vote. However, as we have heard from many others this The Government answer, as we have heard several afternoon, voter fraud at polling stations barely reaches times, is free photographic ID. Nevertheless, the the height of minuscule, and the evidence that we have Government’s own research again found that about heard from those on the Government Benches has been 42% of people without the ID would not take it up. based on personal anecdote. We have to ask: what is the That is really very serious. These groups are going to problem they are seeking to solve? be disenfranchised because they do not take it up, and they will turn up at the polling station and find that Seeing a Government introduce such radical policy they are unable to vote. This is in pursuit of three changes without a shred of evidence to support those convictions. changes sets alarm bells ringing among those of us who believe that every Government should be trying to remove barriers that prevent participation in the democratic Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab): The right hon. process, rather than raising them. Gentleman is making an excellent speech thoroughly destroying the Government case for voter ID. Would he care to hazard a guess as to why the Government are Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and pursuing this policy? Strathspey) (SNP): My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about not taking the Bill in isolation and looking at the cumulative effect. Does he agree that it is Mr Davis: This is where I differ from the hon. Gentleman. definitive of a Government that have lost any confidence I think that the Government are trying to do their best. in their ability to outrun their outrageous false claims, I do not think that this is a deliberate action, but I think their untruths and their broken promises that they have that the pressure on the Government—[Interruption.] to bring this measure in to try to gerrymander the The hon. Gentleman laughs, but listen: I lived through system? a Labour Government deliberately gerrymandering the system, frankly, so I do not want to take any lectures on Brendan O’Hara: I could not agree more, and I will that. I think that the Government are trying to do their elaborate on that as I go through my speech. best. They have the wrong idea in pursuit of a problem that does not exist, but they are nevertheless trying to In all the debate and discussion that have followed do their best. But there is a greater— the Queen’s Speech in May, the Government have had ample opportunity to produce the evidence that these Geraint Davies: On a point of order, Madam Deputy proposals are a proportionate measure to deal with an Speaker. There is no evidence of gerrymandering. That identified problem, and they have not. The reason they is outrageous. have not is that there is absolutely no evidence for them to produce. As one leading, albeit unelected, Scottish politician recently said: Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): “They can’t cite any evidence of it because I don’t think there’s That is not a point of order. I really do not want the any evidence to cite. In terms of this particular part of the debate interrupted by points of order that are actually Queen’s Speech, I think it’s total bollocks, and I think it’s trying to points of debate. give a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, and that makes it politics as performance.” Mr David Davis: I will take another day to give It is not often that I agree with the former Scottish lectures on points of order. Conservative leader, Baroness Davidson, or whatever The simple truth is that there is a greater responsibility her title is at the moment, but on this occasion she was on the Government than on anyone else to do the right absolutely spot on. thing and to avoid errors working to their own advantage. In the absence of any evidence that voter ID is the That is what I am arguing here today. This voter ID answer to an identified problem, we can only conclude scheme is an illiberal idea in pursuit of a non-existent that, for the Conservative party, the problem is not folk problem, and that is what we need to address. We turning up at polling stations without photographic ID, need to get rid of it, and that is what I will seek to but that certain folk turn up at polling stations do on Report. at all. 219 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 220

Alec Shelbrooke: May I ask the hon. Gentleman the Brendan O’Hara: If the right hon. Gentleman wishes same question I asked the hon. Member for Lancaster to reduce this debate to that level, he is perfectly welcome and Fleetwood (Cat Smith)? Does he disregard the so to do, but this is about a fundamental right for recommendations of the OSCE? people to exercise their democratic right to vote. I urge him to take it a bit more seriously. Brendan O’Hara: I do not regard any findings of the Yet again, this highlights the differences between OSCE, but what I think is important in this place, what is happening here and what is happening in Scotland. looking at UK-wide elections, is that we have a measure If ever there was a reason why we need our independence, that works for United Kingdom general elections, and it is to get away from draconian legislation such as this. this is one that absolutely does not. The right hon. In May, when the Scottish National party won an Gentleman says we should be reinventing the wheel and unprecedented fourth term, we did it with a record starting from scratch. There is a debate to be had, but number of people turning out to vote in a Scottish the imposition of this kind of voter ID now is absolute Parliament election. That does not happen by accident; nonsense and there is no evidence whatever to justify it. that was by design. The SNP Government led the way This is, therefore, actually a ploy to stop people going to by extending the franchise to all 16 and 17 year olds the polling station in the first place. I believe it really is and, more recently, by allowing all eligible refugees in as crude as that. The Government plan appears to Scotland and those foreign nationals with settled status have been to conjure up a demon, convince people the right to vote. It is because we extended that franchise that that demon is posing a threat to them, and then that we now have a thriving, healthy and robust democracy allow themselves to introduce draconian and totally in Scotland. It is telling that, as Scotland, and indeed disproportionate measures to slay the demon they have Wales, extend that franchise, this place seeks to do the just invented. exact opposite. The fatal flaw in that argument is that there never was Over the summer, we learned that the Bill goes far a demon. No matter how the Government have tried to beyond plans for voter ID. If it is passed, the Government spin this, people know that there never was a demon will assume powers over the running and scrutiny of all and that there is nothing to see. Now, the United future elections. The Bill reveals plans to strip the Kingdom Government stand accused of a sleazy attempt Electoral Commission of its powers and the independence to gerrymander the register for their own electoral gain. it enjoys at the moment, and put it directly under the control of the Government, forcing it to conform to a Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con): In his judgment on the strategy and policy statement which will be written by election in Tower Hamlets, Richard Mawrey QC said the Government. This means that the Government—the there was an appreciable amount of personation by Executive—will be giving political direction to the false registration in Tower Hamlets. I wonder if the organisation whose job it is to independently scrutinise hon. Gentleman has read that judgment. and adjudicate on the fairness of elections. At a time when its powers should be extended, this Government Brendan O’Hara: I would say gently to the hon. are stripping the Electoral Commission of its powers Gentleman on the Tower Hamlets issue, which I believe and making scrutiny far more difficult. went back to 2014, that to change an entire voting Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): My system on what went on in one particular London hon. Friend is making a fantastic speech. On extending borough—the anecdotal evidence I have heard is that it the Electoral Commission’s powers, it has previously was more to do with postal voting than personation. said that it does not have enough powers to keep the This measure is to do with personation, which has been major parties in check and that overspending and breaches proven not to be a problem. of electoral law have become business as usual, because This is an utterly reprehensible proposal that would it cannot fine them enough. Is this not all about taking be more at home in Donald Trump’s Republican party further control rather than accepting open elections? than in the United Kingdom. What is more important and more chilling is the brazen way in which the Brendan O’Hara: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Government are doing it. They seem not to care. We We are heading down a dangerous road and I urge always know it will not be the well-heeled and the Government Members to think carefully before proceeding. affluent middle classes who will struggle to produce a One would have hoped that, at a time when democracies passport, or a driving licence. We know and they know across the world are under threat from the influence of it will be the young, the poor, the marginalised and the hostile actors, Governments could have taken this minority communities who do not have a passport or opportunity to introduce legislation to tackle those do not drive, who will struggle to manage to collect a shadowy groups—those unincorporated associations—with voter ID card. They will be affected by this registration. anonymous sources of cash that are seeking to influence The Government know that there are already between UK politics. However,given that openDemocracy recently 2 million and 3 million people who do not have that ID. revealed that since 2019, the Conservative party has They also know that there are about 9 million people accepted £2.5 million in donations from these shadowy not registered. I think they should be spending an awful groups, it was never going to be the anonymous, deep- lot more time getting people on to the register than pocketed bankrollers of the Conservative party who organising to take people off that register. would be targeted in the Bill. This Bill was always designed to hit the poor, the Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con): disadvantaged, the trade unions, the charity campaigners Would these be the same young people who have to and civic society activists, because it will be the Secretary show photo ID to get into a bar, a nightclub or a pub of State who will get to unilaterally decide who can every Saturday night? campaign, what they can campaign on, when they can 221 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 222

[Brendan O’Hara] communities? Why are we being asked to accept that a Government Minister can unilaterally decide who can campaign, how much money they can raise and what or cannot campaign for what they passionately believe they can spend those funds on. At a stroke, a Government in? Why are we being asked to turn a blind eye to Minister could ban a whole section of civic society, those incredibly rich and powerful bodies that seek to including trade unions and charities, from engaging in buy their way to influence and power in the UK elections and campaigning or donating. It is fundamentally Government? anti-democratic and people should be outraged by it. Our democracy, as I said, is under sustained attack. But, of course, if those people are unhappy and want to The arithmetic of this place means that the only people take to the streets to protest, this Government are who can prevent this anti-democratic slide are Conservative already planning to block off that avenue to them. Members. If they decide to fall meekly in line with what the Government say and nod this truly, thoroughly David Morris: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman anti-democratic legislation through, I fear that history for letting me intervene. Charities are supposed to be will judge them as those who facilitated one of the apolitical—how do you explain that? darkest days for democracy in the history of this country. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Order. I say again that hon. Members really should not use the word “you”; otherwise, it becomes a bit of a 4.25 pm conversation down there and we feel kind of left out. Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con): As ever, I will seek to calm the House, if I can, as I perambulate Brendan O’Hara: A charity has the right to around a few of the issues that the Bill presents. I advocate on behalf of its members and the people it suggest to the Minister, as an early judgment, that it is represents. A charity must have the leeway and the perhaps a curate’s egg of a Bill. I will explain why I have bandwidth to advocate. To block that off screams of the come to that assessment, but we must understand at the anti-democratic road that this Government are determined outset whythese matters are important. They are important to go down. to protect everybody—democracy itself in its entirety, What we have here is a Government who are allergic clearly, but also candidates, agents and volunteers for to criticism, who are terrified of scrutiny and who are all political parties who are actors in our great democratic determined to give themselves, through this and other process—and to give due regard to those who ultimately pieces of legislation, the powers to silence their critics. deserve consideration: the voters. They want to prevent public displays of dissent and Having listened to the debate so far, I think we need weaken their political opposition while, at the same to hit two issues on the head. I suggest gently that it is time, entrenching the advantage that they already have, slightly anachronistic to compare democracy in this all at the expense of democracy. country with the events that we sawafter the US presidential election. To those who would have us believe that there Geraint Davies: Aneurin Bevan famously said that in is something intrinsically wrong with our system, I the struggle between poverty and property, when poverty suggest that they could be accused of suffering from rises, property will attack democracy. Is this not what Gerald Ratner syndrome, whereby they completely we are seeing in terms of voter suppression, getting rid undermine what they wish to improve. of the right to peaceful protest, and attacking the It is a shame that the Bill was not subject to pre-legislative judiciary and our fundamental democratic rights? scrutiny, which might have ironed out issues that have caused a degree of contention. Indeed, it could be Brendan O’Hara: I agree with the hon. Gentleman: suggested that the Bill would have benefited from we are heading down a very, very dangerous road. The consideration beforehand by a Speaker’s Commission, public have to be made aware of that and Government which is a cross-party entity—none of us has the monopoly Members have to be aware of where this could lead. on virtue when it comes to elections or matters pertaining We would not take this in any other walk of life. If to them. this was a casino, we would demand that it be shut My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice down and the owners arrested for loading the dice, and Howden (Mr Davis) said several interesting things marking the cards and allowing the dealers to have aces about ID. I have a great deal of sympathy for what he hidden up their sleeves. If this was a football match, said: notwithstanding the substantial list in schedule 1 there is no way that we would accept the home team of acceptable forms of ID, there is work to be done. manager being the referee and the assistant manager May I briefly mention the Speaker’s Committee? I am sitting up in the VAR box. Why, then, are we being a member by virtue of chairing the Select Committee asked to accept this? Why are we being asked to let this on Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs, Government play fast and loose with something as and for no other reason. I agree that the Speaker’s fragile and as precious as our democracy—something Committee would benefit from having no majority from that so many have done so much to defend? Why are we a particular party. I see colleagues who are members of being asked to let this Government undermine those it frowning at me, but I simply say that I would be independent institutions that are specifically there to willing to sacrifice myself if we needed to remove a scrutinise our elections and preserve the public’s trust in Conservative member. I do not wish to take away from a free and fair electoral system? the importance of the Committee’s work, but if it were This is little more than a grubby attempt to gain necessary for me to discharge that heavy burden on to electoral advantage. Why are we being asked to potentially somebody else, I might well do so. I do not want to disenfranchise millions of poor people and disadvantaged cause even more offence to Members on the Treasury 223 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 224

Bench, as I do occasionally, but I do ask whether it is it during the Bill’s passage, and unfortunately it is not appropriate to have two Ministers of the Crown as there. Will the Government commit to providing full members of the Committee. I think that there is some information on voter ID before the Bill moves to its work to be done; perhaps we will come back to the next stages? matter on Report. Earlier this year, 17 leading civil society organisations On the vexed subject of the Electoral Commission, it called on the Government to think again about requiring is fair to say that opinion is mixed, but the commission photo ID at polling stations. They included Stonewall, is ultimately a regulator—perhaps the most sensitive the Electoral Reform Society, Operation Black Vote, regulator, because it regulates what we, and those at My Life My Say, and Silver Voices. It is not just the other levels of representation, do as candidates. o I Labour party that is saying this. I urge the Government simply say that we should tread carefully,perhaps recognise to listen to the growing consensus from across the some of the work that has been done recently, welcome political divide, and from impartial charities and the new chair of the organisation, and judge it in the representative groups, and to drop this terrible idea. years to come. Let me now turn briefly to clause 25, on joint I appreciate that many other Members wish to speak campaigning by registered parties and third parties. It is this afternoon, so with that, Madam Deputy Speaker, I of course right for us to have a robust system of will conclude my remarks. electoral finance monitoring and controls, but I have concerns about how the Bill could restrict legitimate 4.29 pm campaigning by trade unions and other organisations. I echo the comments of the shadow Minister, my hon. Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hazel Smith). Trade unions are democratic membership Grove (Mr Wragg), and to speak in the debate. organisations that are already highly regulated when it I want first to discuss clause 1, and the Government’s comes to the financing of campaigns, and the Labour ill thought out and extremely damaging proposal to Party is proud of its intrinsic link with the trade union require photo ID at polling stations. There is clear and movement. This Bill redefines campaign activity that is resounding evidence that voting in this country is currently classified as party spending as joint campaigning, already safe and secure. Putting these additional barriers potentially making unions liable for substantial expenditure in the way of people exercising their right to vote will by the party. That is both unfair and illogical. The only weaken our democracy and further erode our trust Committee on Standards in Public Life has recently in the political system, which is already quite weak. stated: Of course, this proposal will have a greater impact on “When considering calls for greater regulation on non-party some groups than on others. Several Members have campaigning it is important to be mindful of the role of non-party campaigning in the broader ecosystem of democracy and pre-election drawn attention to that, and I want to echo some of debate.” their comments in outlining which groups will be most affected. Young people are likely to be impacted, and Trade unions must be able to engage in the democratic constituents of mine such as 16-year old Elliot have process, campaign on behalf of their members and contacted me with concerns about the Bill suppressing support political parties without onerous regulations, youth engagement in politics. I have been doing quite a which will not increase transparency or make election lot of work in my constituency in trying to enable spending fairer. I urge the Government to reconsider young people to get politically engaged. Another barrier how these clauses will operate, and to bring forward will affect older people, who may struggle to access the revised proposals during the passage of the Bill. ID that they will now need. A number of Members, especially Conservative Members, have said that it is 4.35 pm not a particular barrier, but I know that many people Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con): Thank you who have voted throughout their lives, in many cases for for calling me to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is the Conservative party, will be disenfranchised. good to be higher up the batting order. I want to A 91-year-old constituent wrote to me recently. He highlight to the House that I serve on the Speaker’s told me that he had just given up his driving licence Committee on the Electoral Commission and that I was because he is now housebound. Asking him to apply for acquitted at Crown court of an electoral law a new form of ID, in my view, is unreasonable and offence under the Representation of the People Act 1983 ludicrous. Another constituent with multiple disabilities on 9 January 2019, as Members will be aware. There also contacted me. That constituent has never had a are three minor issues that I would like to talk about passport or a driving licence, and is extremely concerned, this afternoon, as well as one major one and one fearing that the process of application for a new form of potential omission from the Bill. I hope that some of ID will be difficult to complete. these points can be addressed as the Bill makes further I should like the Minister to clarify some points. progress. What assessment have the Government made of how There has been much huffing and puffing on voter the new law will affect people with disabilities? The Bill identification this afternoon, as there always is on this provides extremely limited information about the new topic. It is perceived by some as a means to restrict voter card: there is nothing about the application process, voting, but I do not believe a word of that. We have ID nothing about deadlines, nothing about what documents with us at most times of the day, when we want to will be required, and nothing about how long the card collect a parcel or indulge in age-related activities such will be valid for. The Bill simply says that this vital as going to the pub. I do not think there are many in this information will be set in out in future regulations, but House who campaign as actively as I do for civil liberties, as the Electoral Commission has said, we need to have and I see absolutely no conflict in this legislation. 225 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 226

Mr Goodwill: Has my hon. Friend encountered a within the net of inheritance tax for a very long time, situation in which a voter has lost their polling card and it is sometimes difficult to get rid of it completely. I and, when they are told that they can still go to the am very comfortable with where this is going. polling station, they are astounded that they do not The change in the Bill that is relevant to me, of need any form of ID? In fact, many people who lose course, follows the result of my 11-week trial at Southwark their polling cards are nervous about going to vote at Crown court behind glass, which concluded in acquittal all, so having ID might encourage people in that situation on 9 January 2019. I did not enter the House as the MP to go and vote. for South Thanet to have a lengthy trial based on very abstract and ambiguous legislation. The issue at stake Craig Mackinlay: I thank my right hon. Friend for was the construction of section 90ZA of the Representation that interesting observation. We have all heard this on of the People Act 1983, relating to the meaning of the doorstep. When people say, “Oh, I’ve lost my card”, “election expenses,” and section 90C of the same Act, we say to them, “Don’t worry, just go!” So yes, perversely relating to accounting for discounted or free goods and the ID card could actually increase turnout, which is services and the requirement, or not, for a candidate or the converse of what some people say. agent to give assent and proper authorisation for expenditure in order for it to be a valid election expense. The mischief that clause 1 is intended to address is that of personation. People claim that it is non-existent, Mr Steve Baker: That sounds like a very complex and I know that very few cases go to court, but I matter, and I am sure my hon. Friend deserves an extra disagree with those who say it is not taking place. I will minute to explain it to us properly. I am grateful that he not highlight to the House how easy it is and how it has is here to do so. undoubtedly happened in many constituencies. Clause 2, on postal voting, amends paragraph 3 of schedule 4 to the Representation of the People Act 2000, on absent Craig Mackinlay: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for voting in Great Britain. This will restrict the right to a that assistance. perpetual postal vote to three years, which is good The matter was tested at the Court of Appeal in front common sense. of no less than the Lord Chief Justice, who ruled in summary that authorisation by the candidate or agent Clause 3 brings in a new offence of handling postal is a key feature of an election expense. The Electoral votes. Again, a great idea, but in practical terms it is Commission—I make no comment as to its motivation— difficult to know how it could really be effective. Let us was dissatisfied with the outcome at the Court of Appeal hope that the threat of prosecution will be enough to and took the case to the Supreme Court, which ruled in bring people away from the appalling activity that, in an entirely contrary way,that spending could be construed parts of the country, we would have to call postal vote as an election expense without receiving formal farming. There have been some convictions for this, authorisation or proper deemed authorisation if it is of which is all to the good. However, I think there is a assistance to that candidate. wider debate to be had on whether postal votes serve the good of the democratic process. Two of the highest courts in the land—one said this and one said that. How on earth is a candidate or agent In some local authorities, postal votes arrive two meant to make any sense of such legislation? I am weeks before voting day. I have often wondered how extremely grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for many of those who vote early, who might be floating listening to my contributions in the House on this voters, find themselves thinking in the last few days matter and for listening to the private Member’s Bill when the election is getting exciting, “D’you know that I introduced some years ago to amend the 1983 Act what? I’ve changed my mind! I wish I’d waited till the appropriately so that proper authorisation has to be end.” That is a problem as we get an increasing number given. I now see those words in the Bill almost in their of postal voters. It is almost like that old saying, “For entirety. In clause 16, proposed new section 90C(1A) of you the war is over”, because they are no longer in the the 1983 Act requires clear direction, authorisation or election process. encouragement by the candidate or their agent for an The increase in postal votes was implemented by the election expense to be so. Thank God we have some Labour party amid fears that the number of people clarity. engaging in elections was going down. I remember, I would not want to see anybody in this House, friend because I am of a certain age, when people had to have or foe, go through what I went through. It was not fair, a good reason to get a postal vote, such as being on because we had ambiguous legislation. Finally we have holiday or working away, or being infirm or ill. A a power in this Bill that means we will protect each debate needs to be had as to whether that was a better other for the right reasons. Whether or not we like process. I value elections and the process of going to a someone’s politics, it will apply to everybody. booth, and I am not convinced that the widening of the postal vote mandate that we have seen over the years Geraint Davies: Is the hon. Gentleman saying it is has not just widened the risk of fraud, harvesting and reasonable for a political party to bus in hundreds of coercion, away from the reasonable security of the workers and put them in hotels, so long as the agent polling station—I have good, robust feelings about the does not know or authorise it? Is he saying that is a security of the polling station. legitimate— On overseas electors, as long as a person is within the net of UK tax they should have the right to vote. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Obviously, a person who goes abroad to work for a Order. I am afraid the time of the hon. Member for few years will lose the annual tax charge, but to get rid South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay) has come to an end, of their domicile takes a lot longer. A person can be but I will give him 30 seconds. 227 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 228

Craig Mackinlay: I thank the House for its forbearance must make it clear that the proposed strategy and policy during those troubled years, and I hope Members will statement outlined in clause 12 and the related development support at least that part of the Bill. and approval processes will not undermine the very important relationships that the commission has with 4.44 pm the devolved Parliaments.Indeed, the Electoral Commission Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): It is a pleasure to follow itself has called for that. the hon. Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay). I will draw my remarks to a conclusion, but I will just The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan say that an opportunity has been missed to consolidate O’Hara), in his excellent speech, made reference to the and modernise electoral law, which both the Law way in which the Scottish electoral system is becoming Commission and, more recently, the Committee on far more inclusive by expanding the franchise to 16 and Standards in Public Life have called for. I hope that 17-year-olds. Of course, similar efforts are under way in some of their recommendations can be incorporated Wales, where the most recent Senedd election saw the into the Bill in future stages. franchise extended to all those over the age of 16 with residency rights. As discussions in Wales turn to 4.48 pm consideration of the size of the Senedd and further Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): I suppose I reform of the electoral system, we can say that Welsh have been in this place long enough not to be surprised democracy is becoming more inclusive, at a time when by anything that happens in this Chamber, but I have to perhaps the situation at UK level is to the contrary. say that I am astonished by the level of synthetic Some of the proposals in this Bill are to be commended, outrage that has been generated by part 1 of this Bill. including the new sanction on intimidation of candidates My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and and of voters. However, as has been discussed a lot this Howden (Mr Davis), an old friend, gave the game away afternoon, the Bill does introduce a new barrier to when he said that it has the word “ID” in it. For him, democratic participation. As others have eloquently anything with “ID” in it is a blue rag to a bull. All I can argued this afternoon, the introduction of voter ID say, as someone who has been privileged to be an requirements is baffling, as it appears to be the international observer of elections on behalf of the Government’s attempt to address a non-existent problem. Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and I appreciate that we will not have agreement on this the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, is that issue this afternoon, but it is worth reiterating that in ID is common practice around the civilised world. It is 2019 there were 33 cases of polling station irregularities, not a panacea and it is not going to solve all ills, but it is in an election where more than 32 million ballots were a useful tool in the prevention of fraud. I think I am cast. The Electoral Commission’s electoral fraud data right in saying—my hon. Friend the Minister will correct details that there have been three convictions for in-person me if I am wrong—that ID has been used in Northern personation since 2014. I understand that we are not Ireland elections since 2003. If that is so and it is good going to be able to agree on this point, but surely the enough for Northern Ireland, it is surely good enough Government will consider their own evidence, and the for the whole of the rest of the United Kingdom. Cabinet Office’s own research found that 27% of those My main purpose, in taking the Floor for just a few without photo ID were less likely to vote if photo ID moments, is to say thank you to my hon. Friend the was required. When the Minister sums up, it would be Minister for delivering something for which many of us good to hear exactly what the Government’s plan is to have been campaigning for some time: the extension of try to encourage voting among people who have expressed the right to vote, in perpetuity,for expats. I am particularly to the Government that they are less likely to vote if grateful for part 2 of the Bill and clause 10, which ought photo ID is required. to be known as Harry’s clause. Harry Shindler is 100 years Another question that arises from the Bill is whether old. He is the oldest living member of the Labour party. the Government have considered the implications of Harry and I have worked together on this project, with some of the measures on devolved elections and others, for a number of years. It will be a joy to his heart constitutional arrangements. An example that comes to to be able, at the age of 102 or 103, to vote in a general mind is this year’s Welsh election, where the Senedd election. Harry could have taken Italian citizenship—he general election was held on the same day as the police fought at Anzio, came back to the United Kingdom and crime commissioner elections. If that were to occur and later retired to Italy—but, proudly British, he refused again, voters would be required to show photographic to become Italian to be able to vote. ID in order to vote in the PCC election but would not At the next general election, Harry will be able to be required to do so for the Senedd election. That vote. That is one of two issues that expats want to be exemplifies some of the complexity that the Law delivered. We are delivering on one; I hope that Harry Commission identified in its report and the and I will both also live to see the day when we deliver recommendations for electoral laws to be rationalised. on the second, which is the extension of expat pensions My question simply is: have the Government assessed in perpetuity. how this would impact turnout and participation in Several hon. Members rose— devolved elections? Have there been discussions with the Welsh Government and the Senedd on that point? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Other worrying aspects of the Bill are some of the Order. To make her maiden speech, I call Sarah Green. changes relating to the operation of the Electoral Commission and the strategic priorities of that body, 4.51 pm which have been mentioned this afternoon. As the Sarah Green (Chesham and Amersham) (LD): Thank Electoral Commission is funded by, and is formally you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a true privilege to accountable to, the Scottish Parliament and the Senedd, stand here today, among these green Benches, as the as well as to the UK Parliament, the UK Government Member for Chesham and Amersham. 229 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 230

[Sarah Green] It goes without saying, however, that, no matter how any one person voted, every constituent in Chesham It should be said that, like so many constituencies, and Amersham will be listened to, will be heard and Chesham and Amersham is more than just two towns. their interests represented in this place by me, and I We are a collection of proud and vibrant communities, greatly look forward to working with colleagues across going from the Chalfonts in the south through to the this House. Lees in the north, taking in the Missendens, the Kingshills and so many other villages along the way. Soaring Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I above it all are the magnificent red kites. congratulate the hon. Lady on her maiden speech. I call Maria Miller. In representing the constituency of Chesham and Amersham, I follow the late Dame Cheryl Gillan. I 4.55 pm know that many Members and former Members alike Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): Thank you, mourn her loss. Please let me take this moment to give Madam Deputy Speaker. May I echo your congratulations my condolences to the many colleagues, friends and to the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah family members who all sorely miss her. I can only say Green) on not only an excellent maiden speech, but a that I intend to carry on her tradition of speaking truth very gracious one as well? We on the Conservative to power and standing up for my constituents. Benches really appreciate the tribute that she paid to Dame Cheryl and I proudly share a Welsh heritage, our late colleague. I felt like I was getting to know her and it so happens that Chesham and Amersham is constituency all over again after a number of visits something of a destination for Welsh émigrés. One of there during the by-election. Every village appeared to our most famous late residents was Roald Dahl. If be a film set and actually was. I did not realise that it people look closely enough around Great Missenden, was the most photographed area of the country and it is they will find, hidden in plain sight, little details and extremely beautiful. The hon. Lady steps into big shoes clues to locations from his stories—stories that, like left by our friend, Dame Cheryl, and I wish her very many in this place, I grew up reading. well in the work that I know she will be doing to well represent the constituents of Chesham and Amersham The inspiration for Matilda’s library is still used by and, by the sounds of it, to continue the tradition of local people today. Danny’s dad’s petrol pump from being a very strong advocate not of HS2, but of her “Danny, the Champion of the World” can be found, constituents. too—along with those pheasants that Danny and his father so loved. Crown House, otherwise known as Our democracy, like others, is a very fragile thing. Sophie’s orphanage from “The BFG”, still stands. I am, Elections are pivotal in the democratic process and I however, still on the hunt for a giant peach and a big really applaud the Government, but particularly my chocolate factory. hon. Friend, the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution, for all that they are doing to put democracy At the heart of the inspiration for many of those first in their agenda. My right hon. Friend the Member wonderful stories is the Chilterns area of outstanding for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said quite natural beauty, and our woodlands in particular. There rightly that the Government have greater responsibility is therefore a grim and unwelcome parallel between the than anybody to ensure that the measures that are put story of “Fantastic Mr Fox” and the scene that greets in place are impartial—that they will not be favouring people there today. The damage that Boggis and Bunce one side or the other. I do not agree with the points that and Bean’s diggers wrought as they tore up the land he makes on voter ID; I think that the Bill is absolutely while hunting that Mr Fox echoes the current destruction right. Ministers will have to do a great job of work in now taking place thanks to the works around High explaining voter ID to the voters well in advance of any Speed 2. It is bad enough to watch it from street level, election and I know that they will put that as a priority. but once you get up and above the works and see the full I just want to focus on two measures in the Bill and scale of it, it is devastating. What you see makes your two measures that are not in the Bill. I would like to heart sink, where before the views could make your highlight my support for two measures, and the first is heart sing. around the intimidation of candidates. The Bill introduces Something else that makes your heart sink are the a new and very welcome electoral sanction to protect roads around Buckinghamshire. I call them roads, but those seeking to be elected from abuse either in person they are more like an assault course for unsuspecting or online. The vast majority of people who have stood drivers. The shocking state of our roads is something for election have experienced some sort of aggressive that my constituents are desperate to see fixed, but behaviour and this is having a deleterious impact on sadly this Government are more interested in fixing a certain groups. The Minister will know from our problem that does not exist. There is no evidence of conversations the concerns that I have about the impacts mass voter fraud in this country and yet, with this Bill, on women putting themselves forward for election. We the Government want to introduce voter ID at elections. know from research that two out of three women in the Why? This Bill will result in countless voters being UK said that their fear of abuse or harassment was a turned away at the polling booth for no good reason. reason for not pursuing a career in politics. That is not We should be encouraging more people to participate in good enough. In a democracy where we are strong elections, not introducing barriers to voting. Far from because of our representative nature we have to tackle strengthening our democracy, this Bill makes it harder these things head on, so thank you to the Ministers for for people to vote and undermines our independent championing this new sanction in the Bill. elections watchdog. Like all Members here, I did not Secondly, there is the accessibility of polls. We sort of enjoy the universal support of every voter, but everyone take it for granted that everybody can get to vote, but should be able to cast their vote unimpeded. when we look at the evidence in the legislation, we see 231 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 232 that the fact that it covers only tactile voting devices is Many councillors who deal with issues such as those way out of date, so, again, I applaud the Ministers for we deal with here are subject to quite stringent police their tenacity in making sure that the requirement on checks. Now, I am not advocating that course of action, returning officers is far broader than that; they should but we have to think about this carefully so that our be commended for that. positions are not open to abuse. I do not imagine that Let me turn to the two issues that I hope I might turn there are many people in this place who would think the Ministers’ eyes to as the Bill proceeds through its that a convicted sex offender would have a place on various stages. The first will come as no surprise to these green Benches. them: it is the length of elections. [Interruption.] There 5.3 pm is quite a lot of support for that on these Benches. The Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab): May I first say Bill is silent on the length of general election campaigns. how pleased I am to see the Minister, my constituency When I was elected, election campaigns were 25 days. neighbour in Norwich, back in her place? She may have When many colleagues were elected to the Government been back before today, but this is the first day that I Benches in 2019, that period was 36 days. The change have been back, so I welcome her to her place. has happened because we have rewritten the law, and I will start with a question. If your policies are done a carve-out for bank holidays and weekends. It is unpopular with most voters and your own party’s nonsense that the legislation is drafted in that way. We demographics are shrinking, what do you do? Do you have to acknowledge and discuss the real consequences change your policies so that your party’s platform is for our democracy of the length of election campaigns, more appealing to more voters, or do you make it but we have not done so enough. Those consequences harder for people to vote? After reading the Bill, I think include the engagement of voters, periods of uncertainty we now have this Government’s answer. for the economy and the period without an effective Such is the extent of the crisis of democracy, there is Government. The issue is also not covered in the truly no shortage of issues that the Elections Bill could Government’s engagement plan. have addressed. Our first-past-the-post electoral system Will Ministers please continue to look at this matter, already means that millions of people’s votes are wasted. and listen to me again on this gripping subject on When the House of Commons and the House of Lords Monday when we discuss the Dissolution and Calling are taken together as our legislature, half our legislators of Parliament Bill, when I hope to move new clause 1, are not elected. We do not even have a constitution that which has the support of not only Government Members, is publicly accessible or that has public consent. This but Opposition Members as well? Bill does nothing about any of these issues or the many more real problems in our elections and our democracy. Mr Goodwill: Does my right hon. Friend agree that Instead this Government are pouring oil on the bonfire having a short election would help in situations such as of democracy that is taking place not just in the UK but the recent recall of Parliament on the situation in across the world. Afghanistan, or the decisions that we have had to make When public confidence in the running of elections is at short notice during the pandemic? Having a shorter at its highest since 2012, we are left to ponder the election campaign would facilitate a Government being obvious question: whose interests is this Bill actually put in place to make those important decisions. serving? It certainly is not the interests of the estimated 2.1 million people who will be put at risk of being excluded from voting because they do not have recognisable Mrs Miller: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. photo ID. Nor does it serve the interests of working Of course, he is a co-sponsor—and, in fact, a people and civil society. Their right to freedom of co-conspirator—on this entire issue, as are many expression in elections through trade unions in campaigning Government Members. I look forward to hearing his will be hamstrung by punitive red tape and put at risk dulcet tones on this matter again on Monday. through the Government’s control of the Electoral The second issue that I want to cover is the sensitive Commission. I think it is pretty clear: the beneficiaries matter of the eligibility of candidates in parliamentary of this Bill are this Government and their vested interests. elections. There are measures in place that veto certain It is this Government who benefit from the disproportionate people from standing in general elections, so this is not exclusion of the very voters hit hardest by their policies. a new concept in our legislation. When we are elected It is the wealthy tax exiles, not members of the public, we are, as individuals, in unique and powerful positions who will benefit from rules that will enable overseas of trust; we have to accept that. Parties do vet candidates, electors to influence parties in elections through donations. but sometimes—we know—those procedures do not However, as even Conservative Members have noted, work as they are intended. the most cynical aspect of this Bill is of course the Currently people cannot stand to be elected as an MP phantom problem of voter fraud that has been summoned if they have been made bankrupt, but there are no by this Government to create a smokescreen for naked similar bars for other—possibly more serious—offences. self-interest. Anybody who is convicted of a sex offence is not barred Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con): The hon. from standing for election. This is about existing offences Gentleman says that voter fraud is not an issue, yet in that have been tried in court, not allegations.The Centenary my constituency during a by-election less than a month Action Group is suggesting an amendment to bring ago, over 30 pre-filled-in voting ballots were found that offence into scope, so that we can strike a better dumped in a bin in a church. My community of Rutland balance between upholding the democratic freedom and Melton is perhaps not normally considered a hotspot that people have to stand for election and safeguarding of voter fraud. If there is not voter fraud going on, why our constituents, who very often, as we all know, include are we currently having to investigate such ballots being children and vulnerable adults. found around our country? 233 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 234

Clive Lewis: That is a fair point. Let me retort with an hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) alternative statistic for you. There were 34 allegations of about the Government’s fleeting, rocky relationship not impersonation in the 2019 general election, out of 58 million just with the truth but with democracy? Choose soon, votes. I took out my calculator and that works out that because history will not judge your silence well. there was 0.0000058% fraud in the last election. The Government have produced a piece of legislation Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): There will be a straight out of the far-right playbook from the United five-minute limit from now on. It is nothing personal, States to look for a problem that does not exist. This Steve. tactic is drawn straight from the authoritarian playbook of racist American legislators. Their voter suppression 5.10 pm laws have been and are being used to reinstate Jim Crow-era mass disenfranchisement via the back door. Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): Mr Deputy Speaker, The Southern Poverty Law Centre, which has commented it is the second time you have done that to me; the first on such legislation, says: time was my maiden speech. “The real reason these laws are passed is to suppress the vote, I welcome this essential Bill. What I want is a fair and that is in fact what happens.” vote for everyone, and that is why I was very pleased to We have a crisis of democracy precisely because lead the first Adjournment debate of this Parliament on established institutions have failed to represent the public 19 December 2019. Further to the speech of the hon. as a whole—failed to challenge economic self-interest in Member for Norwich South (Clive Lewis), I am clear favour of the common good. The truth, as this Government that in Wycombe, the victims of electoral malpractice know, is that their ideology of destructive and unequal are ethnic minorities.Overwhelmingly,it is ethnic minorities growth, fuelled by oil and gas, is not shared by the whose votes are stolen, in some cases very deliberately. British public. Even the super-wealthysee the uninhabitable First, I want to welcome some provisions and then, if world this system is creating. They choose to flee to I have time, I will say where the Bill could go further. On private islands or hide out in vast compounds in the postal votes, proxy votes and voter ID, I welcome the depths of New Zealand and elsewhere. This Bill, along provisions in the Bill, but I particularly want to emphasise, with the protest ban and the attacks on because I suspect no one else will, the importance in the judiciary and human rights, is a buttress against the undue influence measure of provisions about spiritual public. Authoritarian control is being shored up because injury and spiritual pressure. I have thousands of British this Government know they cannot win public consent Muslim supporters in Wycombe, and I know from my freely and fairly for policies that will continue to impose friends and supporters that they were accused in the poverty on an ever-greater number of people so that most strident and offensive terms, which I will not wealth can be extracted for a few. [Interruption.] You repeat, of being apostate, because they declined to vote sit there looking incredulous, yet that is what your for the Muslim candidate. That is an absolutely outrageous politics and your policies do, day in day and day out. way to polarise our politics. If I did it as a Christian, Anthony Browne: I wonder whether the hon. Member there would rightly be national outrage, so I am pleased is aware that actually voter ID is very common in other to see that provision in the Bill. countries. Yousaid that it is a racist policy to bring back Jim Crow laws from the US. Are you aware that the Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): My hon. world’s most successful multi-racial democracy, Canada, Friend is making a powerful speech, and I draw his uses voter ID, as well as highly respected democracies attention to the words of the judge in the Tower Hamlets such as Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Italy and case, who made the same point. He said: France? They all use voter ID. “The real losers in this case are the citizens of Tower Hamlets and, in particular, the Bangladeshi community. Their natural and Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Before laudable sense of solidarity has been cynically perverted into a the hon. Member for Norwich South (Clive Lewis) sense of isolation and victimhood, and their devotion to their answers that, can I please remind everybody, on all religion has been manipulated—all for the aggrandisement of sides, not to refer to “you”, because that is me, and I Mr Rahman.” have no views on this matter, as you know? That is the reality of these sorts of fraud cases.

Clive Lewis: The hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire Mr Baker: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am clear will also know that many of the countries he mentioned that in speaking in support of the Bill I am standing already have ID cards fully in use by their populations. overwhelmingly for my ethnic minority voters in Wycombe. As you well know, we do not have them here. I know I am absolutely clear about that in my mind. I am clear you are talking about a regional ID scheme, but if you that they are the most strident supporters I have on this are talking about a national ID scheme, fine, make that matter in my constituency. comparison. I do not believe you are, so I do not believe it is a fair comparison. I will not repeat the matters that I raised on 19 December, because that took several times longer than the time I Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): “He”, not have remaining, so I will point out five areas where the “you”. Bill could go further. The first is that many people are incorrectly listed on the electoral roll, entitling them to Clive Lewis: I will conclude with my question to vote. Many of the issues are already illegal, but there is Members on the Government Benches: how comfortable a strong argument that if the electoral roll was much are they with Government Front Benchers who are more tightly governed, the opportunity for criminality, eroding the fabric of our fragile democracy? When will and particularly the misuse of postal votes, would be they speak up and express misgivings like the right reduced. 235 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 236

There needs to be a national check for uniqueness, being given the opportunity to cast their vote freely. but without a national database. I am grateful to the However they choose to vote, they should have their Electoral Commission for meeting me; I have shown it a choice. In so far as it is up to me, I am not having this technique that could be used with a kind of digital country go back to the pre-suffragette era in which fingerprint to guarantee uniqueness. We need to ensure women’s votes were abused. That requires us to be that people only vote once in the UK. I have seen a realistic and understand that some women cast their WhatsApp message where somebody said, “I have voted votes at home under duress. in Birmingham; I am now coming to Wycombe to vote I welcome the Bill and am grateful to the Minister, against Baker.” I do not mind people voting against me who will have my full support. Let us not listen to some if they are so convicted, as it were, but I do mind them of the nonsense we have heard today. voting twice. The second point is that people register to vote at an Sir Iain Duncan Smith ( and Woodford address where they do not reside. I could take Members Green) (Con): On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. to a small Edwardian three-bedroom house in Wycombe I apologise to colleagues for this brief intervention, but where 12 electors are registered to vote. We absolutely I have heard that the all-party parliamentary China know that they do not reside there. It is very important group has invited the ambassador of China on to the that people register to vote only where they reside. It is estate next week. As one of many in this place who has also important that people do not end up abusing the been sanctioned by the Chinese Government, I find that postal vote system by applying for a postal vote on reprehensible, because Mr Speaker himself condemned someone’s behalf and then casting it without their the sanctioning of Members of Parliament here in very knowledge. We also can give examples of where that strict terms. can be done, although I do not have time now. I have notified the chair of the all-party group, my Thirdly, there are instances where foreign nationals hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), here legally in the UK—very welcome they are, as well as the vice-chair, the right hon. Member for too—and with a national insurance number are not Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who I see in his entitled to vote. We have examples of some people of place. I wonder if you would give your view, Mr Deputy Turkish nationality and some EU nationals. In some Speaker, about whether such a visit should happen. The cases, people just do not know that they are not entitled representative of the Government who have sanctioned to vote in a national election. We need to ensure that us, trolled us, broken some of our email accounts and we tell them. I could give anecdotes of people who find taken our characters around the world is coming to they have inadvertently voted and wished they had not, Parliament next week, and I think that is unfathomable. because they had no intention of breaking the law, so Mr Carmichael: Further to that point of order, we need to educate them. Mr Deputy Speaker. As vice-chair of the all-party Fourthly, I realise and accept that at this stage the parliamentary China group—in fairness, one of 22 vice- Minister almost certainly cannot do anything about the chairs—may I say to the right hon. Member for Chingford national uniqueness of the electoral roll—I put that on and (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) through the record so that we can come back to it—but this is you that I very much share his concerns? It is obviously an area where I think he could go further. When necessary for us to engage in every way possible, but someone wishes to make an objection to someone’s when the engagement is of the nature he described, that name being on the roll at a particular address, the name goes beyond normal engagement, and that should be a of the objector must be disclosed. That is a reasonable matter of concern across this Chamber. principle of justice to ensure that the accused knows the name of their accuser. The point for me is about Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I am extremely when their name is disclosed. It seems that just as an grateful to Sir Iain Duncan Smith for his point of order accused person is revealed when they are charged—not and giving me forward notice of it, as well as to Alistair when they are arrested—so it could be the case that a Carmichael following on. I am also grateful that he person challenging the electoral roll is named publicly informed the chair of the all-party parliamentary China only at the moment when someone is charged so that group. The Speaker and Deputy Speakers are not that person knows who their accuser is for the purposes responsible for the operation of APPGs. In the first of the criminal justice system and the accuser does not instance, I suggest that he put his points to the officers end up exposed to intimidation for challenging of the APPG in question. Indeed, the vice-chair having registrations on the electoral roll. I make that case said what he did gives incredible strength to the arguments. because such challenges need to be made and there is a Further, if the right hon. Gentleman believes that the problem with people either not making them or APPG has breached the rules, he is advised to contact making them and subsequently feeling they were or the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. He could have been intimidated. might also wish to know that the Standards Committee Finally, the Minister needs to do much more to is undertaking an inquiry into APPGs. As he just stated, educate voters about what the law is. For example, I am it is a matter of public record that Mr Speaker is very sorry to say that we cannot assume that just because a concerned about the sanctioning of any Members of postal vote is completed by an elector in their own this House by the Chinese Government for carrying out home, it has been completed freely. I know of one lady their duties as Members of Parliament. from an ethnic minority community who asked to cancel her postal vote because it had been taken from 5.20 pm her and given to a candidate. I personally reported that Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): candidate to the police. That is just one example Can I first say to the Minister for the Constitution and concerning the treatment of women, which is not equal Devolution that I am glad to see them back at the everywhere. In particular, I fear that women are not Dispatch Box? I also commend them for their passion 237 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 238

[Martin Docherty-Hughes] Then we come to the regulation of expenditure, and I referred in my intervention on the Minister to for the legislation they are bringing forward on behalf unincorporated associations. Much has been made of the Government. I do not necessarily agree with the by Government Members about the independence of vast majority of it for very simple reasons, and I want to charities, for example. Not all charities that use the bring my words to three specific points on voter word “charity” are actually registered charities; they are identification, assistance for excluded groups and the usually unincorporated associations. They are the small regulation of expenditure. organisations in each of our constituencies that go about their business doing civic duties and civic activity. First, on voter identification, I am glad that the right But the unethical and unprincipled element of the hon. Member for—I can never remember his constituency. unincorporated associations which needs to be clarified [HON.MEMBERS: “Haltemprice and Howden.”] Exactly. in this Bill is about how they are utilised to undermine It is double-barrelled and it always gets me. I am glad democratic principles and fund political organisations that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden by the back door. (Mr Davis) is here on voter ID. I do not necessarily share the same opinion, for a very specific reason. One There needs to be clarity in the Bill. The Minister other hon. Member, the right hon. Member for Elmet needs to identify why we cannot use existing ID numbers and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke), has already mentioned that we already have, and how we can tackle the issue of the OSCE report on voter ID. There has been a failure the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community and also to recognise in the debate so far not only that the vast make sure that unincorporated associations are not a majority of nations that use them have used them for a back door to undermining the very principles of democracy long period of time, but that some of them—for example, across these islands. Estonia—not only use them to allow a citizen to go and vote, but to allow them full access to the vast majority 5.25 pm of records the state owns on them. Therefore, your ID Damien Moore (Southport) (Con): It is a pleasure to card—your digital ID card—will allow you to read your speak in this debate to express my support for the new medical records, your police record and a vast swathe of legislation to strengthen the integrity of UK elections public information held on you, the citizen. Their digital and protect our democracy, but I want to begin by ID is yours; it is not the state’s. thanking the many people inside and outside Parliament The idea that also needs to be discussed and highlighted who worked so hard, particularly over the last year, to quickly is the idea that we do not have ID numbers in preserve and protect our democratic process despite the the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. The ensuing chaos caused by the pandemic. We owe a debt vast majority of us over the age of 15 have a national of gratitude to the workers and volunteers who administer insurance number and the vast majority of us have an our elections, and we owe special thanks to Lord Pickles NHS number. Those of us representing Scottish because without his work and dedication to tackle constituencies also have our community health index— electoral fraud in our voting system, I doubt this Bill called the CHI. The issue about voter ID-specific cards would have come before us so soon. is therefore a worry to me. Why are we duplicating a I also thank my hon. Friend the Minister for the specific voter ID card when ID numbers already exist? Constitution and Devolution for getting this done despite Why go to the expense of creating and duplicating the competing priorities of Government and her own existing structures? I am afraid that I did not hear the personal battle. At a time when Government could be answer to that in the Minister’s opening speech, and forgiven for prioritising other incentives, the refreshing perhaps they will come back to it, if they wish, in their display of focus and determination we are seeing today conclusion. from the Government reflects a belief in the need to strengthen the integrity of our elections and protect our I think the onus in the legislation is on local government democracy. to provide the cards. Where does the ownership of the Many Members will recall that only in the last Parliament card reside: is it with the Government or with the local I put forward my own private Member’s Bill on this authority? The Minister mentioned the fact that it topic, and I am glad to say that many of the changes I would not be connected to any databases, and that gives proposed around postal voting then have found their me the idea that it is owned not by the local authority, way into this Bill. but by the Government. Therefore, there needs to be clarity about that ID in that it is not connected to any Many Members on the Opposition Benches have other single database other than someone’s voter number argued strongly that this Bill unnecessarily introduces on the voter roll. That needs clarification. measures that will make it more difficult to vote in future elections, that the UK has relatively low levels of On assisting those who are excluded, there has been proven electoral fraud, and that voters should feel confident no mention so far, for example, of the Gypsy, Traveller about their vote, or that this might disenfranchise voters. and Roma community. A proportion of the Gypsy, In truth, the opposite is the case. This Bill will strengthen Traveller and Roma community still lead a nomadic the security of our voting process by introducing a lifestyle, and they will find it extremely difficult—moving requirement for voters to show an approved form of from local authority to local authority or between the photographic identification before collecting their ballot nations of the United Kingdom—to access a specific paper to vote in a polling station. There are already local authority to give them a specific voter ID. Perhaps checks in place to confirm a voter’s identity when they the Minister can say a few words about that in summing register to vote and to vote by post. However, there are up because the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community no similar checks in place at polling stations in Great in recent months has found some of the legislation that Britain to prevent someone from claiming to be someone has gone through this place very difficult. else and voting in their name. 239 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 240

This Bill will bring the rest of the UK in line with it will impose excessive and unnecessary restrictions on Northern Ireland, where photographic identification campaigning groups and, worst of all, it will not only has been used successfully since 2003. For those concerned disallow the voting rights of millions who do not have that any eligible voter who does not have one of a broad ID but lead to an even lower level of voter engagement. rangeof acceptedidentificationdocumentswillbeprecluded This Bill is unnecessary, costly and a Conservative from taking part in the democratic process, the Bill and power grab. the Minister have made it clear that a proposed voter Although the proposal to introduce voter ID has card will be available from their local authority free of been widely covered already, I feel that I must emphasise charge. Furthermore, the Elections Bill places British that we should be working to encourage and support citizens’ participation at the heart of our democracy, the people of the UK to exercise their democratic right supporting voters to make their choices freely, securely to vote, not disenfranchising them. That is particularly and in an informed way without fear of interference. likely to be the case for the most disadvantaged groups, Stealing someone’s vote is stealing their voice, so I who are already the most marginalised in our society. welcome the Government’s attempts to stamp out any I would like to bring to the Minister’s attention a potential for voter fraud by including sensible safeguards joint statement on voter ID by a coalition of 19 Welsh for postal and proxy voting, which will see party organisations, which highlights how proposals in the campaigners banned from handling postal votes, put a Bill risk the disenfranchisement of already marginalised stop to postal vote harvesting, and make it an offence groups in Wales that they work with and represent, for a person to attempt to find out or reveal who an including homeless people, people with disabilities, older absent voter has chosen to vote for. people, ethnic minorities, young people, Gypsies and I also welcome the steps taken by this Government to Travellers, and the Roma community in Wales. I would introduce a new electoral sanction to protect campaigners be interested to hear the Minister’s response to that and those standing for or holding elected office from joint statement. inexcusable intimidatory or abusive behaviour both in person and online, something many Members on both In contrast, I am extremely proud that the Welsh sides of this House have experienced and feel strongly Government have taken exactly the approach that I feel about. As my hon. Friend the Minister has said: is needed by taking action to encourage young people to vote—16 and 17-year-olds voted for the first time in “Robust debate has always been a fundamental part of our Senedd elections in May this year—and making it easier democracy, and freedom of expression is part of its appeal—but a line is crossed when disagreement mutates into intimidation and for people to vote across the board. We are also looking abuse that shuts down free debate.” to trial polling stations in schools and colleges to tackle Finally, I welcome the steps taken in the Bill to better low youth turnout at elections, and we are considering support voters with disabilities to exercise their democratic putting polling stations in supermarkets and leisure right by removing restrictions on who can act as a centres. These steps will make it easier for people to vote companion to a disabled voter at the polling station and and make our democracy a more vibrant one where requiring local returning officers to provide support for everyone’s vote counts. a wider range of needs. In my constituency of Southport, If the Government press ahead with their proposals, this is not only appropriate but necessary to strengthen my constituents will notice a stark difference between the integrity of our voting system and ensure voters, Welsh elections and Westminster elections. They will irrespective of their age or disability, can participate. enjoy easy and accessible elections for local government Too often during elections, I am contacted by residents— and the Senedd, and they will face enormous barriers they have an above average age demographic—who are and inconveniences when it comes time to elect their dissuaded from taking part in the democratic process MP. I would be interested to hear what discussions not because of their apathy, but because of a lack of Ministers have had with the Welsh Government on the confidence in a system that makes it too difficult to vote proposals in the Bill. in person with a disability. There is much more to this Bill than voter ID. It The Bill builds on the good progress that the Government threatens the independence of the Electoral Commission have made defending democracy. The changes that it with Government and parliamentary interference. It will deliver will work alongside the measures in the gives the Government and the Tory party the ability to online safety Bill and the counter-state threats Bill, set the strategic plan for the body that oversees elections. which were announced in the most recent Queen’s Speech, That is significant, as the Electoral Commission has to protect our globally respected UK democracy from investigated many key Government allies in recent years, evolving threats and ensure the systems that underpin it including Vote Leave, and the Conservative party for its are fit for purpose in society today. It will introduce a 2017 election spending. It is clear to me that these number of important changes that the Electoral proposals will undermine the Electoral Commission Commission and others have previously argued will and stifle oversight and criticism. bring benefits for voters, including extending imprint I also have grave doubts about the proposals surrounding rules to digital campaign material, allowing more flexible third-party campaigners and the impact that they may support for disabled people, and improving transparency. have on important campaigning groups, charities and I will be supporting the Bill, and I encourage hon. and trade unions. The majority of campaign work during right hon. Members across the House to do the same. elections is done by individuals and groups that are not members of political parties, and results in increased 5.30 pm voter registration and turnout. As the Committee on (Cynon Valley) (Lab): This Bill is an Standards in Public Life commented, affront to our democracy. It will interfere with and “third-party campaigning is a good thing, because it encourages undermine the independence of the Electoral Commission, people to vote”. 241 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 242

[Beth Winter] local elections in the metropolitan authorities they cover. Unfortunately, this has led to unforeseen consequences What we should be doing is putting measures in place for the administration of these elections, particularly that encourage people to vote, as we are doing in Wales. the count. Earlier, I alluded to the fact that local election This Bill does the opposite, and I oppose it. counts in a metropolitan borough such as Wigan can be over in an hour or two in normal circumstances. The Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Without my recent combined local and mayoral elections in Greater even imposing a four-minute limit, which I am about to Manchester, including polling day, took three days to do, you did it in four minutes, so congratulations. Four administer as opposed to the normal one. On the Friday minutes—James Grundy. of the count, staff had verified the ballots cast in the local election by 10 am, but were forced to wait until 5.34 pm 4 pm before they could start counting them due to issues with the verification of the mayoral ballots—a James Grundy (Leigh) (Con): I welcome the Bill. The six-hour wait before counting could even begin. The provisions within it are long overdue.Given how thoroughly mayoral ballots had to be verified again on Saturday the ground has been gone over on some of the main morning before they could be counted. Most staff and planks of this legislation, I do not intend to go over it counting agents were exhausted after three very long again. I do, however, wish to raise a number of technical days across— points relating to the governance of local elections. Having stood in local elections as a candidate, or acted as an agent for more than 20 years in the seat I now Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. We represent, I have some experience of that. have to leave it there. I am terribly sorry. First, I welcomed the changes to the nomination process for this year’s set of local elections, whereby only two signatures were required on the nomination 5.38 pm paper, instead of the normal 10. This greatly reduced Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): I draw the the administrative burden for both political parties and attention of Members to the fact that I am a member of independent candidates in the local elections, leading to the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission. a considerable increase in participation, especially by independent candidates and those from minor parties, I consider it a privilege to take part in our political and making it easier for major parties to field candidates landscape, where democracy comes in different shapes across wards they might otherwise have struggled to do and sizes and where it is the voters’ place to march in so in. I hope the changes will be made permanent. I the streets and to choose who they put in this place. The understand that this system, or one very similar to it, presence of non-party campaigners—charities and has been in place in Scotland since 2007 without either campaign groups in the third sector—add a diversity of incident or much controversy.I hope that such a measure voices and expertise to our politics, bringing overlooked will be incorporated in the Bill. issues on to the political agenda and in so doing helping Hon. Members will also be aware that manymetropolitan us all to make better decisions. That considered, clause boroughs are undergoing local government boundary 23 seems almost incomprehensible to anyone who values reviews at the moment, meaning that in short order they having a participatory democracy or an engaged society. will have what are known as all-out elections. Most The clause essentially hands Ministers the power to metropolitan boroughs normally elect by thirds, with create conditions on whether certain bodies can take three-member wards. Broadly speaking, those wards part in the electoral process, or remove them all together. tend to be very large compared with some of the They could be used, for instance, to bar anyone who has more rural areas, with electorates ranging from roughly been in police custody from campaigning, which would 10,000 to 20,000 depending on the local authority. take out thousands of environmental campaigners. It In all-out elections in three-member wards, the number could even be used to create an outright ban for certain of candidates can of course triple, so five candidates organisations, such as trade unions. can become 15. That can lead to very long ballot Additionally, lowering the spending limit for groups papers, which can lead to confusion for electors, especially to register as non-party campaigners to £700 essentially the elderly, and can be very difficult to tally for counting hands the Government the power to disqualify any staff, given that candidates from the same party are group from campaigning, while the new limitations on scattered across the ballot paper. This can turn a count joint campaigning could clamp down on electoral pacts. that would normally be completed in a few hours into a I find that somewhat ironic given that the party of daylong event. Government here, only four months ago, were calling I propose that, when multiple candidates are up for for just such Unionist pacts in the Scottish elections. election in the same ward, candidates should still be This piece of legislation gives the Government of the listed individually on the ballot paper, but should be day power over what kind of campaigning they consider grouped on the ballot paper by political party for the acceptable during election periods and who can campaign. ease of the public in finding their candidates of choice It is a naked attempt to swing elections in the ruling and for the ease of counting staff in tallying votes at the party’s favour by letting them write the rules for their count. That change would reduce confusion for electors own re-election. The Government or Opposition parties and considerably foreshorten the length of local election do not have to agree with what campaigners are calling counts in this type of all-out elections. for, but we should at least accept the right to participate. Finally, there is the matter of the relatively recently Instead, by narrowing our public life and stifling what established metro Mayor elections. [Interruption.] I know, makes our politics pluralistic, this Government are I know. Currently, mayoral elections can overlap with reading the same playbook as Orbán and Hungary. 243 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 244

Even Parliament is being attacked. Clause 23(2) explicitly During the campaign, we saw postal vote harvesting ensures that this place will have no power to annul a on an immense scale. We saw a level of personation that statutory instrument that seeks to amend or remove the was mind-blowing to those of us who care about our list of who counts as a non-party campaigner. This democratic system. We saw intimidation and, as my compounds the Bill’s attack on accountability, with the hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) Electoral Commission’s independence being shattered mentioned in what I thought was an astoundingly good by the new requirement to conform to a strategy document speech, “undue spiritual influence”. That had been on written by the Government, and its powers to prosecute the statute book for a long time but no one considered it being removed. particularly relevant any more. There was a great injustice These might seem like technical changes, but they tie and those of us who were political campaigners could into this Government’s broader agenda of shrinking see it play out, because after a while we knew what we participation in extra-parliamentary political life until were looking for. No matter who we complained to—the democracy is something that happens only in this place. Electoral Commission or the —no If the Government get their way, which, by the sounds action was taken. of it, looks quite likely tonight considering their insistence I appreciate all the points that Opposition Members on keeping their unfair majoritarian voting system, we have made that there is not really an issue because there will soon be living in a society where the right to protest are very few cases, but we had a court case on these is severely restricted by the Police, Crime, Sentencing issues that was brought not by any of the authorities and Courts Bill, where the Electoral Commission is that oversee elections, but by four members of the toothless, and where even the process of going to vote is public who acted as electoral petitioners. They were the complicated unnecessarily by the requirement for voter ones forced to undertake that action, because our system ID restrictions. was failing. When people say that there is no issue in It is only a few years since similar measures saw the this country, that personation is not a problem or that US downgraded by the “Democracy Index” to a “flawed we should be looking at every other issue that has been democracy”. Is that the trajectory for this country? Is listed today, I say politely that we have ignored this issue that really the Government’s vision for a country that for a long time and our authorities would not act. they make such a song and dance about loving—a The judge in the Tower Hamlets case, whom my hon. disenfranchised and disengaged electorate with nothing Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron to protect them from the insulated ruling classes fiddling Bell) quoted earlier, said: the rules to stay in power? “The real losers in this case are the citizens of Tower Hamlets With so much of what we see from the Government, and, in particular, the Bangladeshi community…Even in the it is impossible not to draw contrasts. The Scottish multicultural society which is 21st century Britain, the law must be applied fairly and equally to everyone. Otherwise we are lost.” Government have increased the franchise to include 16 and 17-year-olds, asylum seekers and those serving custodial sentences with less than a year remaining. Alec Shelbrooke: Can my hon. Friend think of any Scotland just held its most inclusive election ever, while other example of Members saying in this House that this Government seemingly advocate leaving politics to victims should be ignored because there is not much of the Etonians. Whenever this Government take steps to a problem? frustrate democracy, they justify them by conjuring scenes of rampant voter fraud. This simply is not the Mark Fletcher: No, I cannot easily recall such an case and the Bill must be opposed. issue, and I hope that that is never our approach in this House. 5.42 pm I appreciate that Opposition Members have raised many points that they feel equally strongly about, but I Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con): There have been just think that they are in the wrong ballpark. If they moments today, listening to Opposition Members, when were being consistent, they would be campaigning to I have felt like I have been missing my tin foil hat. My repeal the voter ID laws in Northern Ireland, which are hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Tom Randall) incredibly successful and were brought in by a Labour and I turn up to all these events united in a purpose, Government. because we both lived through an experience in Tower I just think that there is a huge inconsistency in what Hamlets that is incredibly difficult to forget. When I am has been happening today. I am no fan of the Electoral told that there is no problem with our elections, I find it Commission, which I think could be abolished and very hard to square that with my experiences. replaced tomorrow with something considerably more One of the key things, as I mentioned in a recent successful, but the commission has called for voter Westminster Hall debate, relates to what happened in identification. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tower Hamlets. There was a tremendous injustice and a Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) has repeatedly court case that overturned an election. Some people made the point that international organisations have involved included one of my political mentors, Councillor called for voter ID to be brought in. The vast majority Peter Golds. However, we were not campaigning for of people in this country have an ID that they use day the Conservatives to win an election. This was not to day. For those who do not, who are absolutely a fair about the Conservatives—for some strange reason, the group of people to talk about, there is a readily available Conservatives are not a great electoral force in Tower system in the Bill with financial support to ensure that Hamlets. It was very much about an independent group they are not disfranchised. I honestly cannot work out that had won the election, and in fact, the Labour party why the Opposition are making such a song and dance was the runner-up. about a system that will be strengthened. 245 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 246

Geraint Davies: The Tower Hamlets investigation in Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Bill, which will 2012 found only three cases after 64 allegations, yet on be considered next week, means that only the the back of it the hon. Gentleman is making out that we Government—indeed, only the Prime Minister—will should deny millions of people the right to vote. It is know the date of an election, and only the Government ridiculous. will know when the different regulated periods will actually kick in and people can campaign accordingly. Mark Fletcher: I am pretty sure that I dealt with the That will make it very difficult for everyone else, irrespective point about numbers in the first part of what I said. In of whether they are a political party or a third party, to regard to the idea that millions will be disfranchised, I understand how they are supposed to fit into those think a number of 3.5 million was produced by the regulated periods. On top of that, the Police, Crime, Electoral Commission. That is now five years out of Sentencing and Courts Bill will give the Government date—forgive me if I am off by a year or two—and does increasing powers to shut down dissent and suppress not take into account the range of identification that opposition. As for the United Kingdom Internal Market can be used under the Bill, so in fact the number goes Act, it is the greatest power grab since devolution. The down substantially. Further to the point about the UK Government are now routinely legislating at will, Bangladeshi community, 99% of ethnic minority people and with complete disregard for the consent or otherwise in this country have some form of identification that of the devolved Parliaments. would allow them to vote under the Bill, so, again, I Let us compare and contrast that with what is happening cannot quite understand why such a song and dance is in Scotland. The Scottish election in May was held on being made. the widest and most diverse franchise ever enacted in Having trust in our electoral system is so vital to this these islands: 16 and 17-year-olds, European nationals country. All of us who are willing to stand up for those and refugees with settled status were all acknowledged who have had their votes taken away stand in support of and welcomed into democratic participation. What this the Bill. Bill will bring about is a UK Government elected on an increasingly narrow and difficult franchise, and devolved Governments elected on increasingly wide and more 5.48 pm inclusive franchises. That will have consequences for Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): The hon. the legitimacy and the mandates of those respective Member for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher) appeared to Governments. Today, this Government are breaking accuse some Members on the Opposition Benches of one of their key manifesto promises while trying to having tin foil hats, but I have to say that that was a deny the Scottish National party and the Green party in particularly shiny and reflective contribution. Scotland the right to implement their manifesto pledge on an independence referendum. The reality is that the Bill will create more problems than it seeks to solve. The short-term effect of voter There is a tradition in this House of Representation identification will be to suppress turnout, particularly of the People Acts that have sought to widen the among people for whom it is already low. As others franchise and make it easier and fairer for more people have said, the Government are effectively trying to stop in different parts of society to vote. What we are presented what they consider to be the wrong kind of voters with today is a Misrepresentation of the People Bill—a getting to the polls in the first place. What is someone Bill which, possibly for the first time since 1832, will supposed to do if they turn up on a wet Thursday night, seek to reduce the number of people eligible or able to as the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat vote, will suppress democratic participation, and will Smith) said, and at quarter to 10, just before the polls put up greater barriers to political engagement. European close, they discover that they do not have their ID on nationals—the Minister keeps asking about this—who them? They will effectively be disfranchised because could vote in local elections in England are now no they cannot go back and pick it up. The Electoral longer able to do so, as a direct result of the Bill. That is Reform Society estimates that at least 2.1 million people a reduction of the franchise, and it is part of a wider without photo ID will miss their chance to vote. Tory agenda to centralise and control, but what it will do is strengthen the mandate and the legitimacy of the Let us consider what this Bill could have done. It devolved institutions—and that includes the mandate could have introduced automatic voter registration. for a second independence referendum. It could have expanded the franchise to match what is happening in the devolved nations, and it could, as others have said, have created room for experiments to 5.52 pm make it easier to vote in different places and at different Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) (Con): Let me times from those that we are traditionally used to in this directly address the comments just made by the hon. country. I also echo the concerns of the RNIB. I think Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) by warmly that Ministers rightly want to ensure that there is support welcoming the Government’s proposals in the Bill, for everyone who has particular requirements when it particularly those aimed at finally enshrining in law the comes to votes, but that can be a both/and; it does not rights of certain EU citizens to vote in local elections in have to be an either/or. England and Northern Ireland, elections to the Northern As my SNP colleagues have already said, this has to Ireland Assembly and police and crime commissioner be seen in the wider context. The repeal of the Fixed-term elections in England and Wales. Parliaments Act 2011, the Police, Crime, Sentencing As Members will recall, I, along with some others, and Courts Bill, even the United Kingdom Internal have long championed the rights of UK citizens living Market Act 2020—all those are laws that enhance the in the EU and EU citizens living here in the UK. power of the Executive and reduce the ability of voters Safeguarding those rights has been an essential promise and legislatures to hold the Executive to account. The in our leaving the EU. In the UK, there are millions of 247 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 248

EU citizens who have made it their home, contributing franchise rights in municipal elections, as envisioned in to our economy, wellbeing and culture. Likewise, there this Bill. I would welcome the Government writing to are over a million British citizens contributing to the me to explain what measures they are taking to proactively economic wellbeing of the EU countries that they now encourage uptake of their offer to enter into such call home. bilateral agreements. Following the motion on citizens’ rights that I put before the House in February 2019, the House reaffirmed Chloe Smith indicated assent. its determination to protect the rights of citizens affected by the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. It was the only Alberto Costa: I think the Minister is nodding to occasion, as far as I can recall, when the House was suggest that she will write to me on that matter. absolutely unanimous on a major Brexit issue. I am very But the Government have gone further still. EU proud of having helped to protect the rights of millions nationals who do not fulfil the qualifying criteria set by of innocent people. the Bill—for instance, those who have come to the UK This Bill builds upon those commitments by ensuring post the implementation period completion date of 1 that EU citizens with settled status will continue to hold January 2021 and do not hold settled status, but who the franchise for local elections in England, elections to were elected into a public role as defined by the Bill in the Northern Ireland Assembly and elections of police schedule 7—have the protection afforded by the provision and crime commissioners in England and Wales. The of part 4 to continue in office for the period of their Bill will provide EU citizens with the necessary protections elected term. Again, this is a sensible, welcome measure and peace of mind by ensuring that their voices continue to protect the rights of those EU citizens. I will be to be heard at local and regional levels in England, supporting the Government’s Bill, and I very much Wales and Northern Ireland. look forward to seeing these important rights finally enshrined into law. Anthony Browne: I very much praise my hon. Friend for the work he did on protecting the rights of EU citizens. Several hon. Members rose— I think the whole House was grateful to him for that. I support the view on reciprocity. Does he think that the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. The UK Government should encourage other EU countries wind-ups will begin at 6.40 pm. This will be the last to enable British citizens who live there to vote? speech of four minutes, and we will then move to a time limit of three minutes. Alberto Costa: I thank my hon. Friend for that excellent intervention. That is exactly the ask that I have for 5.58 pm Government Ministers this evening. Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): For EU citizens who may have arrived and settled I want to take a few seconds to place on record my after the implementation period’s completion—that is, congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for from 1 January this year—I would like to welcome the Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green) on her excellent additional steps this Government have taken in the maiden speech. I am sure it is a matter of easy consensus form of bilateral arrangements with several EU member in the House that Lib Dem maiden speeches are all too states,to which my hon. Friend has just alluded. Agreements rare these days, and I thought my hon. Friend’s speech are already in place with Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg was exceptionally fine. As a former Chief Whip for my and Poland. They mean that citizens of those nations party, I was delighted to hear her declare her intention who may have arrived after the transition period will to prosecute her constituents’ case with an independence also be afforded the right to vote in our local elections, of mind to match that of the late Cheryl Gillan. and similarly, reciprocal arrangements will apply to British citizens resident in those countries. That goes “If I am ever asked, on the streets of London, or in any other venue, public or private, to produce my ID card as evidence that I beyond the obligations envisioned by the EU in the am who I say I am…then I will take that card out of my wallet withdrawal agreement, and the Government are to be and physically eat it in the presence of whatever emanation of the commended for their choice to enter into bilateral state has demanded that I produce it.” arrangements with those individual EU member state Those are not my words, but the words of the Prime countries, ensuring that wherever possible we enhance Minister. I think we should watch the Division lists this the rights of UK citizens living in those countries as evening with some interest. I have no doubt that he will well as the citizens of those countries living here. perform that feat of gastronomic improbability while lying in front of a bulldozer to stop the creation of a Patrick Grady: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? third runway at . The difficulty that the Government face in introducing Alberto Costa: Not at the moment. the Bill is that their proposals for voter identification I understand that the Government are open to further seek to produce a solution for which there is no obvious such agreements with other EU member states, and problem. That is not to say that voter personation does that is a most welcome prospect. It would mean that not happen. We have heard instances of it described their residents and British citizens could benefit from today, and indeed we knew for many years that it was a future voting arrangements. As chairman of the all-party substantial and real problem in Northern Ireland. That parliamentary group for Greece, I recently met the is why, having identified the problem, it was right for the secretary-general of the Greek Ministry of Foreign then Government to act to end it. But to justify the Affairs, Ambassador Demiris, in Athens, and informed measures in this Bill, the Government should first have him of the UK Government’s offer to enter into bilateral provided evidence to show there is a problem, and they agreements with EU states on the granting of mutual have singularly failed to do so. 249 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 250

[Mr Alistair Carmichael] Alberto Costa: Does my hon. Friend agree that Peter Golds, an excellent Tory councillor, has done so much The hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg) said to highlight that very issue? the Bill would have benefited from prelegislative scrutiny, and he is absolutely right. The cost-benefit analysis is to Anthony Browne: Absolutely. Peter Golds is one of be seen in the pilot that the Government carried out in the politicians I talked to at the time, and he has done 2019 when, of the 2,000 people who were turned away excellent work in trying to restore trust in democracy in from polling stations, 700 did not return, which should Tower Hamlets. Ridiculously, it was not until 2014 that give us serious pause before we go down this road. the courts annulled the election; we should never have If the Treasury Bench, having missed the opportunity been able to get into that situation. There are endless for prelegislative scrutiny, are able to get this Bill, in its stories in the media about voter fraud. Confidence in current form, through both Houses—I anticipate that the integrity of democracy is being eroded, and there is will be a bigger ask in the other place—they should a clear solution. The Electoral Commission said, after undertake a programme of post-legislative scrutiny to its research, that two thirds of voters say they would ensure that the promises they make tonight are honoured have more confidence in the security of the voting in the execution. system if there was a requirement to show voter ID. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh West (Alec Shelbrooke) has said, the OSCE, which normally (Christine Jardine) told me that she appears on the bothers itself about the emerging democracies in eastern electoral register as Christine Jardine, but her passport Europe, said after the 2010 UK elections that shows her married name. That is by no means unusual, as in Scotland one’s name is the name by which one “serious consideration should be given to introducing a more robust mechanism for identification of voters.” chooses to be known. That sort of thing could have been teased out by prelegislative scrutiny, but it is now I agree with that. too late. I also agree with Opposition Members that this must There are many other issues about which I am concerned not lead to the disenfranchisement of voters. However, but, unfortunately, time is against me. I will vote against as we have heard, 99% of voters already have a photo the Bill tonight. ID of some sort and those who do not can get free photo ID from their local council. Labour introduced voter ID in Northern Ireland in 2003 and there is no 6.2 pm evidence of disenfranchisement there. As I mentioned, many of the leading and most respected democracies in Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): The the world have already got voter ID—Norway, Sweden, first time I went to a polling booth, I brought some ID Canada, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Germany and with me. I assumed that surely I would need to prove Austria have it. We are in many ways an outlier in who I am, so I was stunned when I was told, “Actually, Europe. Voters are losing confidence in democracy in no, you don’t need to show any ID.” I remember little Britain and we have a duty to ensure that democracy is 18-year-old me thinking that democracy is our most both fair and seen to be fair. We must introduce voter valuable asset, yet anyone can vote in someone else’s ID, and I commend this Bill to the House. name without anybody checking. It is often said that justice not only needs to be done 6.6 pm but needs to be seen to be done, and the same could be Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab): I refer to my said of democracy. Democracy not only needs to be declaration in the Register of Members’Financial Interests. fair; it needs to be seen to be fair. We have to accept that I am pleased to be called to speak in the debate on this we have a problem in this country. At the last election, a Bill as it directly threatens the functioning of our democracy. constituent came to me after he went to vote but found On 13 July, I held a Westminster Hall debate on that somebody had already voted in his name. There the Government’s voter ID proposals, when I made the was nothing he could do. His vote was stolen. Would point that voting is safe and secure in Britain. The Opposition Members say to him, “Well, actually, the introduction of photographic voter ID will only work Government should not do anything to stop your vote to reverse decades of democratic progress in the UK. being stolen in future”? As we have heard, according to academic research It is often said, and many Opposition Members have 99% of election staff do not think that fraud has been saying it, that the rate of voter fraud in the UK is occurred in their polling stations and 88% of the public very low, but how would we know? By definition, it is a say that they think our polling stations are safe. So this hidden crime. Reported cases are low, but we do not Bill offers a solution without a problem. There was just know the actual rate. The truth is that, without safeguards, one conviction for personation out of more than 59 million bad practice drives out good practice, or it can do. Like votes cast in 2019. MPs’ expenses or phone hacking by journalists, if people The Electoral Reform Society has said that in the US do bad things and others see them get away with it and the UK the richer someone is, the more likely they unpunished, those people will think they can also do it. are to have photo ID, and that gets to the nub of the I worked for the Prime Minister when he was Mayor issue. It does not matter how the Conservative party of London. I was not as directly involved in Tower tries to dress it up, these plans will make it harder for Hamlets as some of my hon. Friends, but I knew many working class, older, black, Asian and ethnic minority of the politicians. The electoral fraud happening there people to vote, and for those who are unemployed or was an open secret for years, totally undermining local disabled to do so. According to the Cabinet Office’s democracy. I wondered why nothing was done about it, figures, this move is going to cost the taxpayer £120 million and I was very frustrated. over 10 years. 251 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 252

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has stirred it up. We cannot stop that, but when there are warned the Government that photographic voter ID other campaigns with conspiracy theories underneath, will disproportionately impact voters with protected we can demand that there be an imprint on social media characteristics, and if voters are disenfranchised, it content to say where it has come from. would violate article 1, protocol 1 of the European In general election campaigns, conspiracy theories convention on human rights, which was incorporated are pushed that seek directly to undermine the validity into domestic law by the Human Rights Act 1998. The of democratic arguments. We in this Chamber may have Windrush scandal showed how some communities struggle huge disagreements, but we all know that we cannot to provide official documentation, and we have seen the have a democracy unless we disagree with each other, severe consequences of that. Some 3.5 million citizens and there should be an honest debate about that among do not have access to any form of photo ID, and the us. If stuff is being published and we do not know Government’s solution of free voter ID also does not where it comes from, we have to question its validity. stand up to scrutiny, because their own research found Equally, if we say that it is from the Conservative party, that 42% of those without ID would not apply for a the public will view it as a message from the Conservative voter ID card. The Association of Electoral Administrators party and certain things will be built in in respect of has raised serious concerns about the huge administrative how people interpret and view that. burden that will be placed on already overstretched The steps in the Bill that cover the development of local authorities. So can the Minister confirm that the electronic media over the past couple of decades are an plan is to make councils such as my local Luton Borough important, modern way to address an issue that so far Council, which has had more than £150 million stripped has not been addressed. As an overall package of measures, from its budget in the past 11 years, deliver and enforce the Bill has my full support. photo ID cards, alongside the added burden of registering millions of new overseas electors, and on top of boundary 6.12 pm changes? The proposed plan is not credible and it is out Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): Much of touch with reality. of the opposition to the Bill has been focused on In my concluding remarks, I very much wish to echo concerns about voter ID, but there are broader concerns the comments made by my hon. Friends the Members that I wish to address. for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) and The Joint Committee on Human Rights has produced for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) about our opposition a detailed report of the human rights implications of to the Bill’s attack on free and fair campaigning by voter ID, and I commend it and our recommendations non-party activists such as trade unions and charities in to the House. I believe in evidence-based policy making, respect of campaigning for or working with political and from the evidence the Committee heard we concluded parties to a joint goal. This legislation erodes our democracy that the voter ID measures risk making voting less and takes votes and power away from working people, accessible to some people and will have a discriminatory and I will be opposing it. impact on some voters with protected characteristics 6.9 pm under the Equality Act 2010, including the disabled, certain ethnic minorities and Gypsy and Traveller Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): I can communities. do no better than repeat what my hon. Friend the Member We on the Committee want the Government to explain for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher) said about voter ID, which why they have concluded that a voter ID requirement is has been explored a lot today. I should add that I have necessary and proportionate, given the very low number heard many odd conspiracy theories from the Opposition of reported cases of fraud at polling stations; the even in this debate, not least from the hon. Member for lower number of convictions and cautions; the potential Cynon Valley (Beth Winter), who said that Vote Leave for the requirement to discriminate against voters with was a branch of the Government. I think David Cameron protected characteristics; and the lack of any clear and George Osborne might take issue with that. measures to combat potential discrimination faced by In the brief time I have, I want to focus on the parts those groups, including disabled people and older people. of the Bill that deal with online campaigning, digital I hope that I might hear from the Minister the answers media and digital imprints. Probably one of the most to those question, which were posed by a cross-party dangerous and pervasive abuses in our political system Committee of MPs and peers. has come through the growth of social media. I am Many Members ask why the Government are focusing lucky: I am a man—I do not get the horrific abuse that on voter ID, given the lack of evidence that it is a women get when they stand in politics. Men can have significant problem. I wonder whether perhaps it is in sympathy with that but not empathy, because I have the Bill to distract us not just from what else is in the never been told that I am going to be raped and murdered, Bill that should not be there but from what is missing. that my children are going to be killed or anything like Part 4 seeks further to regulate third-party campaigning that, but women experience that on social media on a in elections, but an opportunity to comprehensively daily basis. The provisions in the Bill to crack down on update our rules on transparency in political finance the intimidation of candidates and people who put has been missed. As other Members have said, the themselves forward for public services are extremely lack of transparency in respect of donations from welcome. unincorporated associations is a particular concern. There is an important point to be made about faith in democracy.Lots of people have mentioned the American Martin Docherty-Hughes: The Bill fails to understand election, and I also want to do so. What happened on the total degradation of democracy through unincorporated 6 January was an utter disgrace, and everybody who organisations. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree values democracy believes that, but it was mainly amplified that the Government need to grasp that thorn and deal to that public by social media and the outputs that with it? 253 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 254

Joanna Cherry: Indeed, I do, but I do not think that being tightened up. There has been a constant refrain the Government want to grasp that thorn. We already today that fraud is rare, but it is like a curate’s egg; if it is know that some Tory and Unionist associations in bad in parts it affects the whole, and it has been partially Scotland are doing rather well out of dark money from bad in Tower Hamlets, Slough, Birmingham and elsewhere. such sources. I welcome both the reform to handling proxy votes and It is part 3 that contains perhaps the most egregious postal votes and the introduction of voter ID. As Mawrey aspect of the Bill. The Government seek to take to identified in his judgment, there was at that election in themselves the power to prepare a strategy and policy Tower Hamlets an appreciable amount of impersonation statement for the Electoral Commission. I know that by false registration. the Bill also says that Parliament must approve that I would like to focus the limited time that I have on strategy, but, with the Tory majority on the Government the police, because there has been constant talk about Benches, it is unlikely to be more than a rubber-stamping the fact that there is no evidence of electoral fraud. exercise. Well, there will be no evidence if the police do not The Speaker’s Committee is the primary mechanism investigate it. Before the Public Administration and through which the Electoral Commission is accountable Constitutional Affairs Committee this morning, Peter to Parliament. It will have the job both of evaluating O’Doherty of Thames Valley police said that the situation the commission’s performance against the statement to was much improved. I did not embarrass him by saying be produced by the Government and of holding the that he was starting from a very low base. Mawrey, in commission accountable. However, as I understand it, his judgment on conduct at polling stations, said: for the first time ever, the Speaker’s Committee on the “In the light of the two other groups of statements, an unkind Electoral Commission is now composed of a majority person might remark that the policemen and polling staff had of MPs from the governing party. Accordingly, the appeared to take as their rôle models the legendary Three Wise independence of the commission and its accountability Monkeys.” to Parliament—not to the Government, but to Parliament There has been a whole catalogue of allegations, and I —is under real threat from part 3 of this Bill. This Bill is do not have time to go through them this afternoon. not the way to enhance the independence and role of Many of the allegations that have arisen from the our democracy watchdog. Part 3 needs radical amendment Rahman trial have not been investigated by the in line with the recommendations by the Committee on Metropolitan police.I think that there is scope—I appreciate Standards in Public Life, including powers to obtain that it is outside the scope of this Bill—for complex information and an increase in the maximum fine for electoral fraud to be taken out of the hands of the wrongdoing. police and possibly placed with a specialist unit. Before I sit down, I will renew the request that I made Alec Shelbrooke: I am listening very carefully to what to the Minister during my intervention. It is very good my hon. Friend is saying. Do his comments basically to see her back in her place, but I would like her to answer throw out this argument that only three people have this question: how many of the 47 recommendations ever been prosecuted? made by the Committee on Standards in Public Life are the Government prepared to accept and bring into this Tom Randall: I will give my right hon. Friend one Bill by way of Government amendment? I would be grateful example, of which there are many. In the Mawrey if she could answer that question in her summing-up. judgment of 2014, Kabir Ahmed was found to have used a false address to register a vote, but no further 6.16 pm action was taken. Having had no action taken against him, he was elected as the Aspire candidate in the Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con): It is a pleasure to Weavers ward by-election in Tower Hamlets last month. follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mark There are people who are getting away with it, and Fletcher) with whom I have campaigned for many days people will continue to get away with it if no action is and hours in Tower Hamlets. My first experience of taken. Tower Hamlets elections was the infamous 2014 election, which was later declared void. As a polling agent at I support the Bill but there needs to be a culture Primary School in the , I change, with the development of specialist officers, watched from afar as voters ran a gauntlet of activists perhaps from a different agency within the police, other brandishing leaflets. The activists were very aggressive than a county force. I welcome these measures, but they to voters, especially women, as they entered the polling are just a start. If we are going to increase the number station. When I went in to speak to the police officer of convictions for electoral fraud, we need to ensure about it, he shrugged his shoulders and said, “Tower that we have the systems in place properly to investigate Hamlets, innit.” these cases, and then we will have numbers to show how widespread the problem can be. What I saw at Three Mills Primary School was not the worst. The Mawrey judgment quotes a Labour polling agent who said that she was with her husband in 6.20 pm the car and people were banging on the windows with Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): As you leaflets. She said: may know, Mr Deputy Speaker, Aneurin Bevan famously “The situation was so bad that I thought there was going to be said that in the struggle between property and poverty, some sort of accident. I could not even open a door and we had to as poverty grows, property will attack democracy. That go down another road.” is what we see today. We need to answer the question: An election was stolen in Tower Hamlets, but despite cui bono? Who benefits? We know that 3 million people all the intimidation, it did not actually cross the threshold do not carry photo ID and that 40% will turn away of an electoral offence, so I am glad that that aspect is from voting if they forget their ID, which people often 255 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 256 do. Something like 30% of people do not vote in general will prohibiting political campaigners from handling elections anyway, and our focus should be to increase postal votes in public stop what we all know goes on the franchise, not decrease it. behind closed doors? Poverty is spiralling upwards. Universal credit is going In Keighley there are known situations with the head to be cut, and 7 million people in Britain are in hunger of the household guaranteeing multiple postal votes to and poverty. We know that the plan is to tax jobs with candidates, postal vote harvesting, false registration, national insurance, rather than a progressive tax. This undue pressure being put on individuals to pass across Bill is designed to ensure that those who are hit hardest—the their postal vote, and multiple individuals being registered poorest—will find it more difficult to vote. I very much to a single household when it is known that they are not support evidence-based policy, but this is not evidence- all residing there in their full capacity. In Keighley we based; it is looking for the evidence. To tighten up on have known about these issues for far too long. personation, we could just get the police to do more I hope that the Bill, as it progresses, will help to checks within the existing law. address some of these issues, but I would like the These provisions are part of a pattern of consolidating Government to go further to address some of the power and preventing democracy from turning the others. For example, why not have postal votes apply Government over to another political party. We have only for specific reasons such as for those who are sick seen it in the banning of the right to peaceful protest; or elderly or those who can demonstrate that they have with the up and coming review of judicial power; with to be away from home for specific reasons? More debate the boundary changes, the United Kingdom Internal is worthy on that. Likewise, the right to automatic Market Act 2020 and even the Fixed-term Parliaments renewal for a postal vote should be reviewed, and when Act 2011. All those things consolidate power and do a reapplication is made for a postal vote, proof of not support the fundamental values that all parties identity must be given. should support: justice in the rule of law, democracy Our elections are precious. What I want to see in and human rights. We see the restriction on what charities Keighley and beyond must be shown to work and must and communities can say, while we allow overseas donors be done to improve our electoral system, particularly more influence in our politics. We see the Electoral for postal voting. Commission politicised. We saw the rhetoric of the Trump supporters, who said, “Stop the steal”, alleged 6.26 pm personation and stormed the White House. We are Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba): I have two supporting that sort of thinking, which is without basis. caveats and two anecdotes. First, all legislation requires This Bill is a missed opportunity.As has been mentioned to be taken in the round and in the general context that by my hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Members have mentioned, and that is why I am concerned Winter) and others, in Wales we are moving forward about this Bill as a whole as opposed to just specific with democracy, including through 16-year-olds having aspects. Secondly, it is a privilege to be an elected the vote and proportional representation options in Member, and we have a duty to nourish and cherish local government. Our focus should be to enhance, democracy. In that respect, this Bill fails because it renew and embolden our democracy, our human rights challenges democracy. and the rule of law, but I fear that this Bill is part of a Of my two anecdotes, one describes what needs to be pattern to diminish them, and that over time we will all done to support the democratic aspects that we should regret this fundamental mistake. all welcome as elected Members, and the second is a warning about the apparent direction of travel. First, I commend to the Minister, and anybody else in the 6.23 pm House, “Civic Literacy” by Professor Henry Milner, Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con): Even before I was formerly of Laval and of Oulu in Finland, whose book elected to be MP for Keighley, it was clear that the explains what works about why people vote. He correlated framework in which elections took place left the door and contrasted why countries such as Belgium and wide open to electoral fraud. In fact, my constituency is Australia, where it is a criminal offence not to vote, have deemed to be at high risk of such fraud, with one in five a lower turnout than in Scandinavian countries where it reports of electoral fraud coming from the West Yorkshire is not. He explains the aspects that matter. Much of it is area. These includes cases of bribery, false statements not about legislation. It is perhaps very laissez-faire, but and exerting undue influence on voters. in a much wider context. It is about public sector broadcasting, which is why comments made about The key reason for the problem is the national postal Channel 4 are important. It is about a quality press. It is vote system. Changes to the system are required. The about civic education in schools. These aspects are Bill shows encouraging signs, shortening the time in important and that is the direction of travel we should which someone may register to vote by post, prohibiting be pursuing. political campaigners from handling postal votes and limiting the number of electors on whose behalf someone Alberto Costa: The hon. Member is explaining some may hand in a postal vote. All those measures will help, very noble values about the democratic process, all of but I fear that we could do more to protect the postal which I agree with, but can he explain why in his current vote system. That is why I politely ask the Government party, Alba, and in his previous role as a Scottish to explain how the changes to postal voting will help to Government Minister in the SNP Government, he denied stop electoral fraud in its entirety. What reassurances hundreds of thousands of Scottish women and men the can the Government give that merely shortening the right to have a vote in the Scottish independence amount of time that someone can have a postal vote referendum, which was about breaking up the very before simply renewing it will stop such a postal vote nation that they came from? Can he please explain why being misused in that shortened period? Equally, how there was a democratic deficit there? 257 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 258

Kenny MacAskill: That is a past debate, and the been won for us over many generations by brave and dedicated people of Scotland will decide the future in a referendum men and women and is a precious gift. That I have been robbed of in due course. it by some administrative incompetence is an insult to their legacy and a grave disservice to me.” Let me deal with the warning. It comes not from the OSCE, which has been mentioned, but from the Carnegie That is how he felt about being robbed by incompetence, Council for Ethics in International Affairs. I remember but we have heard today of many cases where people a friend of mine who worked for it sending me a CD of have been robbed of their votes by fraud. what had happened in the Soviet Union as it was about We have heard anecdotal evidence from individual to collapse and before the Commonwealth of Independent Members. My hon. Friend the Member for South States—the Russian Republic—was formed. The Heritage Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne) gave us a case, and Foundation moved in, giving lectures to people who my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) became oligarchs—governors of huge tracts of land described very troubling cases. Wehave heard Government probably larger than the United Kingdom. They were Members who directly experienced what happened in taught two things about democracy.The first was, “Don’t Tower Hamlets in 2014, including my hon. Friends the bother about turnout, because the lower the turnout, Members for Gedling (Tom Randall) and for Bolsover the higher the leverage for you.” That was teaching (Mark Fletcher). People had their votes stolen. We all people about democracy—those who had not had it want people to vote—I completely subscribe to what since the Russian revolution. That is the direction of my constituent said—but we want them to vote once, as travel. Secondly, it was about demonising minorities. my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe said—and When we look at Putin’s Russia, we see voter suppression the Bill will ensure that happens. It will make sure that and indeed demonisation of those from the Caucasus people cast their votes once and once only, and not or elsewhere. under the duress that we have seen far too often. That is the threat that we face. We have to take actions I do not have time to go over some of the other cases, as a legislature that encourage people to participate, not such as the Slough case or the Birmingham case, which take steps that discourage people from participating. was described as “a banana republic”. The judge in the That is about electoral politics, and it is what we should Slough case at the election court in March 2008 noted: be doing. “Recent legislation has addressed and largely solved the problem I cannot remember who it was, but someone made in Northern Ireland but there has been a flat refusal to introduce comparisons with the southern states of the United similar measures in mainland Britain.” States and what we are sadly seeing replicated not just Finally, over 13 years later, we are introducing those in the Jim Crow states but in other states. The direction measures that were called for under a Labour Government of travel is not perhaps yet south of the Mason-Dixon way back in 2008. I welcome what the Minister said in line, but the direction being pursued by this Government her speech. with this piece of legislation and with wider aspects is People need ID to collect a parcel, to use a concessionary most definitely the type of thing that we used to think bus pass and even to attend Labour party meetings, as was left in the history books. Those things come from others have said. People need ID to vote in Northern the Mason-Dixon line and were fundamentally about Ireland—legislation introduced by Labour. As for the disenfranchising people whom those in power did not issue of why people should be disenfranchised by not wish to vote, because they knew that the ability of the having ID, we have addressed that point in the Bill—there wider electorate to participate would threaten their will be free ID for everybody. We will make sure that power. It is for that reason that I oppose this Bill. people know how to access that ID. I do not have time to go into the other elements of the 6.30 pm Bill that I support. I hope to be able to engage with the Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): As many Minister as the Bill progresses through Committee and colleagues have said, confidence in our electoral system on Report. I wholeheartedly support this legislation. and the ballot is crucial. Members may not be aware, but we experienced a very troubling incident in 2017 in 6.33 pm Newcastle-under-Lyme. It was a case of incompetence, rather than fraud. In the general election of 2017—I Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con): My constituency was not a candidate then—approximately a thousand regrettably has seen proven electoral fraud. Local politicians people in Newcastle-under-Lyme were disenfranchised. have gone to prison for electoral offences. It continues Approximately 500 students who tried to register when to have wards with postal vote rates that are way in the snap election was called were not registered in time, excess of the national average, and local concerns about and approximately 500 people who sought postal votes personation were sufficiently serious that my council because they were going to be on holiday did not get had to install CCTV cameras at polling stations on the their postal votes. This was incompetence, not fraud, day I was elected. but an investigation was carried out. It did not go to an One of the worst arguments—we have heard it regularly election court. today—against voter ID at polling stations is the claim The Association of Electoral Administrators produced that there is no evidence of a problem. We have a system a report on the failings of the council at the time, and that largely operates on trust, making it almost impossible the strength of feeling among the voters who missed out to detect acts such as personation, yet critics of this on their votes was very strong. One constituent of mine, Bill take this failure to detect an undetectable crime as who applied for a postal vote and did not receive it, proof that it does not exist. Quoting statistics is pointless. wrote a letter to the chief executive of the council: Any of us can have a guess at its prevalence, but, having “For me a vote is not merely a mark on a paper; it symbolises spoken directly to people who were denied a ballot my inalienable right to choose who shall govern me and set the paper because they were marked as having already tenor of my life for the next five years. This right and privilege has voted when they had not, I take my own view. 259 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 260

Opposition Members may say that there is not a this is not the PR stunt that Opposition Members problem, but leaving our electoral system wide open to suggest; it is real. The risk of electoral fraud does exist abuse is a problem in itself. That is what their argument and needs to be tackled. We have heard the evidence misses completely. When most members of the public from Tower Hamlets and Birmingham that shows how realise how unchecked and uncheckable our system is, ethnic minorities in particular are targeted and how they are shocked. That applies doubly to new arrivals in their rights have been infringed more than any other our country who have often seen electoral malpractice section of our community’s. They deserve better, and for themselves in other parts of the world, where elections that is why the Government are standing up for them. are far from clean. It was notable that during the The Opposition say that there is no hard evidence of Government’s photo ID trials, confidence in our electoral fraud. That is reminiscent of the response of the Labour system increased most among ethnic minority voters. Government back in the day when they were faced with They are at the most risk of having their votes stolen the evidence of organised electoral fraud by sitting and are most grateful for safeguards to protect them. Labour councillors in Bordesley Green and Aston. The I turn quickly to postal votes. Irregularities are easier election judge said that to spot, but they can also occur at much greater scale. In “there is likely to be no evidence of fraud, if you do not look for 2008, three Peterborough Labour candidates were convicted it. Especially if a policy decision is made not to look for it.” of electoral fraud offences. They were diverting postal He described Labour’s position as ballots to addresses that they could access, collecting “a state not simply of complacency but of denial.” them and fabricating votes. The main protagonist received a 15-month sentence. That was postal vote harvesting We have heard the same denial today. with a capital H, but other forms have not been addressed. I am glad that the Government are not complacent Still now, every time we have an election, those same on electoral fraud and, unlike Labour, not in denial. activists are seen and photographed leading postal vote Photo ID is the right step to take to look for fraud. I teams and pictured telling at polling stations. They have fully support the Bill. even turned up to recent elections. At my count in 2019, the same people were there. 6.39 pm This is an issue in Peterborough and we cannot bury Fleur Anderson () (Lab): It is a pleasure to our heads in the sand. For that reason, this is a long-awaited close this debate on behalf of the Opposition, and I Bill that will clean up democracy and restore faith in the thank my hon. Friends the Members for Erith and electoral system in my city. Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare), for Norwich South (Clive Lewis), for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter), for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) and for Swansea West 6.36 pm (Geraint Davies) for their contributions. I congratulate Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con): Last week, my the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah daughter turned 18. It was a day of enormous pride for Green) on her excellent maiden speech, really bringing her and for us. I would like to say that she was proud her constituency to us—I feel that we lived part of her because she was adopting her civil responsibilities in beautiful constituency—and I am sure she will be standing full, but actually it was because she could buy alcohol. up for her constituents in the years ahead. She celebrated the fact by getting on her bicycle with a Labour will be voting against this legislation today. friend and bicycling off to the local village shop. She My colleagues on the Labour Benches behind me have was asked to present ID, and she was delighted to do it laid out in clear terms the dangerous consequences of as part of the rite of passage of attaining adulthood. this legislation. This legislation is unnecessary and expensive, The point of that story is that we require ID when the costing £120 million over the next 10 years—at least. It act being undertaken is either important, such as collecting will have a chilling effect on democracy and it is an parcels or learning to drive a car, or personally damaging, attack on free and fair campaigning. This legislation such as buying alcohol or cigarettes or—it is a cheap will see legitimate voters turned away from polling joke—attending Labour party conferences. stations and local councils tied up in mountains of red In my view, the right to vote is as important as tape and expense. It is a shameless attempt by the collecting a parcel, and the theft of a person’s right to Government to rewrite the rules and rig democracy in vote is every bit as damaging to society as the 17-year-old favour of the Conservative party. buying a pint. It is a key right of citizenship, and it If passed, this legislation will reverse decades of provides the basis of all our political power in this place democratic progress in the UK. The Government have and around the country. I think it extraordinary that up not been honest with us here today or with the British until now this right has not been protected in any way public about the true intention of this Elections Bill. It other than being asked to give a name. has been presented as a quick-fix solution to polish up ID protection is long overdue to maintain public our democracy and introduce integrity into our system, confidence in the system. We have heard evidence from but the truth is that our democracy does not have an hon. Members that two thirds of the population would issue with integrity; it is the Conservative Government have their confidence in the fairness of voting increased who have the issue with integrity. with photo ID, and research on the 2019 voter ID pilot This Bill will disenfranchise millions of voters, and found that, among ethnic minorities, a staggering 97% we all know that the Tories do better in elections the of respondents said that they had increased confidence lower the turnout. It is time to be honest about what in elections being free from fraud and abuse when this Bill will mean in practice. This Bill will make it photo ID was used. This is really important stuff. We harder for working-class people, older people and people heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Gedling with disabilities, as well as black, Asian and minority (Tom Randall) and for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher) that ethnic people and people with learning disabilities to 261 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 262

[Fleur Anderson] the Member for Cynon Valley raised the concerns of 19 Welsh organisations—surely Conservative Members cannot vote. If Government Members do not agree, will the just disregard those disadvantaged groups. She also Minister commit to an equalities impact assessment to raised the amazing work of the Welsh Government to work out whether this will be true? There are concerns make voting easier, while this Government will be making from so many groups representing those people saying voting more difficult. that it will disenfranchise those groups of people. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton South raised The voter ID proposals are simply not proportionate the disproportionate outcome of these measures. My to the risk of voter fraud. The Electoral Commission’s hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Alex own advice, following the pilot schemes in 2018 and Sobel) raised the important issue of the glaring omission 2019, is that of student ID cards from the list of IDs. My hon. “we are not able to draw definitive conclusions, from these pilots, Friends the Members for Hornsey and Wood Green about how an ID requirement would work in practice”— (Catherine West) and for Swansea West made passionate how will it work?— interventions about deeply concerning issues of voter “particularly at a national poll with higher levels of turnout or in suppression that is in keeping with the US Republican areas with different socio-demographic profiles not fully represented party. We cannot be deluded by Ministers into thinking in the pilot scheme.” the voter ID laws we are debating today are any different It very clearly concluded that the significant staffing from the dangerous laws passed by the Republican and financial impact was disproportionate to the security party. The parallels we have drawn and the similarities risk of voter fraud. In the pilot, more than 1,000 people are worth serious investigation. American civil rights were denied a vote because of a lack of ID—1,000 groups have been fighting for years to combat restrictive people. Even if one person lacked their ID to vote, that voter suppression laws, particularly those affecting ethnic should be a reason to rethink this Bill entirely. minority communities. Local by-elections took place across Great Britain It has been asked, who opposes these measures? between January and March 2020 and there were eight Leading civil rights groups such as the American Civil Scottish council by-elections in the autumn of 2020, Liberties Union and the Southern Poverty Law Center and there are just three cases of voter fraud under came together to warn the UK Government that UK investigation. This is using a sledgehammer to crack a Government voter ID policies will harm democracy. nut and risks disenfranchising the 3.5 million people Did this make the Minister think twice about that who do not have a photo ID for the sake of a tiny policy? When Age UK said that compulsory photo ID handful of fraud allegations. In 2019, there was a will make 4% of over-70s—that is equivalent to 360,000 record turnout of 59 million votes, as many Members people—less likely to vote, did the Minister reconsider have said, but just one conviction for personation. Someone that policy? When Lord Woolley of Woodford, director is more likely to be struck by lightning three times than of Operation Black Vote, said in evidence to the Joint to be convicted of voter personation, so why put in Committee on Human Rights that place this Bill? “tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, might be impeded by this imposition, clearly it is not proportionate and Alberto Costa: I have sat here patiently and listened could actually have a monstrous negative effect” to the hon. Lady’s comments. I must confess I am not did this make the Minister reconsider her policy? And sure what Bill she is referring to. She is making a litany when the Royal National Institute of Blind People of allegations which are beyond surreal, if there is such raised serious concerns about the impact of these measures a phrase. Can she please explain clearly why she thinks on blind people, did that make the Minister rethink the the people of Britain, who are astounded that there is policy? not some form of proper voter ID, should not be given that security and certainty when going to the electoral On the provisions on joint campaigning, these clauses vote? are an attack on freedom of speech and association and undermine the independence of trade unions, charities and advocacy organisations. I was working for a charity Fleur Anderson: We do not have a national ID card when the gagging law came into place and saw the and this image of people bursting out trying to get to chilling effect on democracy.These measures are completely the polling station at all costs is not the experience. It is unnecessary. They risk tying up organisations in red hard to encourage people to vote. It is hard to encourage tape and risk effectively gagging charities and pressure the most marginalised groups to go out and vote. They groups, who are a vital voice for marginalised people in are the groups that will lose out the most from this. our elections, but they will err on the side of caution for They find it hard to go out and get an ID. They will be fear of falling foul of this law. That will have a chilling the ones who will be turned away, who will not remember effect on our democracy with far-reaching impacts. to bring the ID, who will not be able to bring it. All the rules on how to get this free photo ID are not clear: how These measures are illogical. Political parties and will they go down to their town hall, what will they have non-party campaigners are different; they have vastly to prove? There is barrier after barrier for the most different expenditures at election time. It is unfair to disenfranchised people, as has been raised by many apply these regulations jointly to such different Members. organisations. The measures also breach key principles My hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead set out by the Committee on Standards in Public Life, raised the issue of the barrier for young people and as has been raised by Members. older people. My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich Trade unions represent millions of working people, South spoke of the disenfranchisement of those hit but the Government have shown in this Bill a commitment hardest by the Government’s policies. My hon. Friend to cut those people out of our democracy. On foreign 263 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 264 donations, the Bill is another example of the Conservatives This measure in Northern Ireland has helped to bending the rules to benefit themselves. That is a wholly prevent electoral fraud, and it has not affected participation. unnecessary change that weakens our electoral integrity. Labour Ministers said at the time of its introduction—I If the Conservatives were serious about improving want to quote this in full—that the measures democratic engagement, they would extend the franchise “will tackle electoral abuse effectively without disadvantaging to 16 and 17-year-olds, as well as concentrating efforts honest voters,” on registering the millions of adults in this country not ensuring currently on the electoral roll, starting with automatic “that no one is disenfranchised because of them.”—[Official registration. If they were serious, they would increase Report, House of Lords, 1 April 2003; Vol. 646, c. 1248.] transparency and avoid opaque practices such as the They added that use of private emails for Government business. They “the Government have no intention of taking away people’s would be building pathways to voting, not putting up democratic right to vote. If we believed that thousands of voters barriers. would not be able to vote because of this measure, we would not This Bill is not necessary and not proportionate. It is be introducing it at this time.”—[Official Report, 10 July 2001; a waste of taxpayers’ money that creates more problems Vol. 371, c. 739.] than it solves. It reverses decades of democratic progress I do not always agree with pronouncements from the and needs to be completely overhauled. Front Bench in the era of Blair and Brown, but in this case they were 100% right. There is no evidence that ID 6.50 pm has negatively impacted turnout. Levels of satisfaction The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Robin with the electoral process are usually slightly higher in Walker): I thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and all hon. Northern Ireland. and right hon. Members who have contributed this afternoon. It is a pleasure to once again take part in a Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I endorse what the full debate in this Chamber. May I take the opportunity Minister has said. We as a party will be walking through to welcome the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham the Lobby with the Government tonight to support the (Sarah Green)? I congratulate her on a very gracious Bill. Photo ID has been a success for Northern Ireland. maiden speech and the kind tribute that she paid to her Wecan vouch for that. It has stopped fraud and corruption. predecessor, who was a dear friend of so many on the I had a discussion with the Minister earlier. The RNIB Government Benches. has expressed some concerns about the legislation. Will I welcome the opportunity to close this debate as the he agree to meet the RNIB to discuss those concerns? Minister with responsibility for elections in Northern Ireland, a part of our United Kingdom where photographic Mr Walker: I am certainly happy to offer that meeting. ID has been used successfully to support the integrity of My hon. Friend the Minister for the Constitution and elections for a number of years and where, thanks to Devolution mentioned earlier that she has had a number legislation introduced by the last Labour Government of meetings with the RNIB already and has been working with cross-party support in both Westminster and Northern with it, but she will continue to meet it as the Bill Ireland, there is a higher degree of confidence in the progresses, because that is vital. I am grateful for the integrity of elections than in any other part of the UK. hon. Gentleman’s illustration of the support for this One of the hon. Members from the SNP, who is no measure in Northern Ireland. longer in his place, intervened to ask the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution about the evidence Brendan O’Hara rose— from Northern Ireland, and I want to talk a bit about that. Mr Walker: I want to address some of the evidence As we have heard, voters in Northern Ireland have that the hon. Gentleman’s party asked for. One survey first-hand experience of one of the measures at the conducted just a few years— heart of this Bill: the requirement to show photographic ID at polling stations. That requirement is an accepted Brendan O’Hara: It is on that point. and non-controversial part of elections in Northern Ireland that has been in place for decades and enjoys Mr Walker: I will address the point that the hon. cross-party support. Although turnout in Northern Gentleman’s party raised. One survey, conducted by the Ireland is, historically, usually lower than in Great Electoral Commission in 2009 under the last Labour Britain, in the first election after the introduction of Government, just a few years after the introduction photographic ID, turnout in Northern Ireland was of photographic ID in Northern Ireland, found that unusually higher than in England, Scotland or Wales. 100% of respondents in Northern Ireland experienced Alec Shelbrooke: We have heard a lot of spurious no difficulty with presenting photographic ID at polling arguments today about voter ID. Was that not exemplified stations. As part of its post-election questionnaire in just now by the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson), 2019, the Electoral Commission reported that 83% of who said that low turnouts favour the Conservative voters in Northern Ireland found it very easy to participate party? There was a 59% turnout in 2001. I would like to in elections, as opposed to 78% across Great Britain, erase the history of Tony Blair, but I believe that he had including, of course, Scotland. a 166 majority. Brendan O’Hara: Can I just clarify whether the Minister Mr Walker: My right hon. Friend makes a powerful is drawing a clear and direct parallel between the situation point. Certainly, in my experience, the higher the turnout in Northern Ireland in the 1990s and the situation in the in my constituency, the higher my majority has turned United Kingdom in 2021? Is there a clear and direct out to be. parallel that joins the two that explains this legislation? 265 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 266

Mr Walker: The hon. Gentleman should want us to often, as my hon. Friends the Members for Wycombe learn from what works in one part of the UK for the and for Bolsover pointed out, the major victims of whole of the United Kingdom. I am very pleased to see electoral fraud. the United Kingdom aligning further, with Northern I want to turn to some of the specific questions that Ireland leading the way as Great Britain takes forward a have been asked. The hon. Member for Putney (Fleur measure to protect the integrity of elections, which has Anderson) and her colleague the hon. Member for been tried and tested to great effect in Northern Ireland. Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) asked Some of the wider claims we have heard in today’s about an impact assessment. I would direct them to the debate are simply not borne out by the experience of 21-page equality impact assessment and the 120-page Northern Ireland. They echo some of the scaremongering impact assessment published alongside the Bill. when this Government successfully introduced individual The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh electoral registration. Many Opposition Members cried South West (Joanna Cherry) and the hon. Member for that that would result in mass disenfranchisement, but Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith) asked about the we saw the effect in the last UK general election, when a recommendations of the Committee on Standards in record number of people were registered to vote. The Public Life. I welcome the report published by the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution, one of Committee in July. As the Minister for the Constitution the hardest working Ministers with whom I have had and Devolution said, the recommendations will be given the pleasure to work and herself no stranger to Northern full and proper consideration, and the Government will Ireland,excellentlyarticulatedthereasonableandconsidered respond. In fact, I should point out that we are bringing approach we are taking across the Bill. forward measures in the Bill which are closely linked to We heard a number of very powerful speeches in recommendations made in that report, such as a new support of these measures from my hon. Friend the requirement on political parties to declare their assets Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay), my right and liabilities over £500 on registration, and a restriction hon. Friends the Members for Scarborough and Whitby of third-party campaigning to UK-based or otherwise (Mr Goodwill), for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) and eligible campaigners. for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), my hon. Friends the My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice Members for Wycombe (Mr Baker), for Southport (Damien and Howden (Mr Davis) made a powerful speech, as he Moore), for Leigh (James Grundy), for Bolsover (Mark always does. Like many on the Government Benches, I Fletcher), for South Leicestershire (Alberto Costa) and happen to disagree with him on this particular one, but for South Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne), my right let me point out that the Government research he hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec quoted also found out that 98% of people across the age Shelbrooke), and my hon. Friends the Members for groups have access to accepted forms of photographic Gedling (Tom Randall), for Keighley (Robbie Moore), ID already, 99% of people from ethnic minority groups for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell), for Peterborough have that level of access, and 99% of those aged between (Paul Bristow) and for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew). 18 and 29 already have an acceptable form of photographic I want to try to answer some of the points that have identification. been raised and some of the questions that have been put to me in Members’ contributions. Before I do, The hon. Members for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) and however, I think it is worth reflecting on the work for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) asked about important undertaken to get to this point and the long pedigree of issues of engagement with the devolved Administrations. some of the measures in the Bill. This is not just a Devolution means that we already have different product of the Government or the Cabinet Office; it has arrangements for devolved and reserved elections. We been inspired, informed and enhanced by the input of a do engage regularly and I can offer him the reassurance wide variety of organisations and individuals. We are he sought that the strategy document will not undermine grateful to a number of parliamentary Committees, the partnership between the Electoral Commission and many of whose thoughtful contributions are reflected the devolved Administrations. in the measures and some of whose Chairs we heard There are many other points that I would like to from in today’s debate. To highlight just a few individuals, address, but I will not have time. Let me conclude by the important contribution of Lord Pickles has been thanking hon. Members for all their valuable contributions. critical in understanding the very real risks and challenges The Bill will place British citizens’ participation at the our electoral system faces. Similarly, the reports by heart of our democracy and will keep it modern, secure, colleagues in this House, as well as by the House of transparent and fair, so that our democracy can continue Lords Select Committee on Democracy and Digital to thrive. I know that my hon. Friend the Minister for Technologies, have highlighted key considerations, from the Constitution and Devolution will do an excellent the need for more transparency in areas of digital job of steering it through Committee, and I look forward campaigning to political finance. to a lively debate in the next phase of its passage. I Along with the valued contribution of the electoral commend the Bill to the House. sector experts, I know the Minister for the Constitution Question put, That the amendment be made. and Devolution has been meeting a wide range of Ayes 230, Noes 329. organisations in the voluntary and community sector, The House divided: which have raised some important points and will play a Division No. 60] [6.59 pm vital role in ensuring that the detail that will be developed in secondary legislation will meet the needs of all those AYES who manage and use our electoral services. In particular, Abbott, rh Ms Diane Amesbury, Mike she is committed to continue engagement with people Abrahams, Debbie Anderson, Fleur with disabilities, other minority groups and some of the Ali, Rushanara Antoniazzi, Tonia key groups of vulnerable people who have been all too Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Ashworth, rh Jonathan 267 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 268

Beckett, rh Margaret Gardiner, Barry McMahon, Jim Slaughter, Andy Begum, Apsana Gibson, Patricia McMorrin, Anna Smith, Alyn Benn, rh Hilary Gill, Preet Kaur Mearns, Ian Smith, Cat Betts, Mr Clive Glindon, Mary Miliband, rh Edward Smith, Jeff Black, Mhairi Grady, Patrick Mishra, Navendu Smith, Nick Blackford, rh Ian Grant, Peter Monaghan, Carol Smyth, Karin Blackman, Kirsty Green, Kate Moran, Layla Sobel, Alex Blake, Olivia Green, Sarah Morgan, Stephen Spellar, rh John Blomfield, Paul Greenwood, Lilian Murray, Ian Starmer, rh Keir Bonnar, Steven Greenwood, Margaret Murray, James Stephens, Chris Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Griffith, Nia Newlands, Gavin Stevens, Jo Brennan, Kevin Gwynne, Andrew Nichols, Charlotte Stone, Jamie Brown, Alan Haigh, Louise Nicolson, John Streeting, Wes Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hamilton, Fabian Norris, Alex Stringer, Graham Buck, Ms Karen Hanvey, Neale O’Hara, Brendan Sultana, Zarah Burgon, Richard Hardy, Emma Olney, Sarah Tami, rh Mark Butler, Dawn Harris, Carolyn Onwurah, Chi Tarry, Sam Byrne, Ian Hayes, Helen Oppong-Asare, Abena Thewliss, Alison Byrne, rh Liam Healey, rh John Osborne, Kate Thomas, Gareth Cadbury, Ruth Hendrick, Sir Mark Oswald, Kirsten Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Cameron, Dr Lisa Hendry, Drew Owatemi, Taiwo Thompson, Owen Campbell, rh Sir Alan Hillier, Dame Meg Peacock, Stephanie Thomson, Richard Carden, Dan Hobhouse, Wera Pennycook, Matthew Thornberry, rh Emily Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Mr Toby Timms, rh Stephen Champion, Sarah Hollern, Kate Phillips, Jess Trickett, Jon Chapman, Douglas Hopkins, Rachel Phillipson, Bridget Vaz, rh Valerie Charalambous, Bambos Hosie, rh Stewart Qaisar-Javed, Anum Webbe, Claudia Cherry, Joanna Howarth, rh Sir George Qureshi, Yasmin West, Catherine Clark, Feryal (Proxy vote cast Huq, Dr Rupa Rayner, rh Angela Western, Matt by Chris Elmore) Hussain, Imran Reed, Steve Whitehead, Dr Alan Cooper, Daisy Jardine, Christine Rees, Christina Whitford, Dr Philippa Cooper, rh Yvette Jarvis, Dan Reeves, Rachel Whittome, Nadia Corbyn, rh Jeremy Johnson, Kim Reynolds, Jonathan Williams, Hywel Cowan, Ronnie Jones, Darren Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Wilson, Munira Coyle, Neil Jones, Gerald Rimmer, Ms Marie Winter, Beth Crawley, Angela Jones, rh Mr Kevan Rodda, Matt Wishart, Pete Creasy, Stella (Proxy vote Jones, Ruth Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Yasin, Mohammad cast by Chris Elmore) Jones, Sarah Saville Roberts, rh Liz Zeichner, Daniel Cruddas, Jon Kane, Mike Shah, Naz Cryer, John Kendall, Liz Sharma, Mr Virendra Tellers for the Ayes: Cummins, Judith Khan, Afzal Sheppard, Tommy Jessica and Cunningham, Alex Kinnock, Stephen Siddiq, Tulip Colleen Fletcher Davey, rh Ed Kyle, Peter David, Wayne Lake, Ben NOES Davies, Geraint Lammy, rh Mr David Davies-Jones, Alex Lavery, Ian Adams, Nigel Berry, rh Jake De Cordova, Marsha Law, Chris Afolami, Bim Bhatti, Saqib Debbonaire, Thangam Leadbeater, Kim Afriyie, Adam Blackman, Bob Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Aiken, Nickie Blunt, Crispin Docherty-Hughes, Martin Lewis, Clive Aldous, Peter Bone, Mr Peter Dodds, Anneliese Linden, David Allan, Lucy Bowie, Andrew Doogan, Dave Lloyd, Tony Amess, Sir David Bradley, Ben Dorans, Allan Long Bailey, Rebecca Anderson, Lee Bradley, rh Karen Doughty, Stephen Lucas, Caroline Andrew, rh Stuart Brady, Sir Graham Dromey, Jack Lynch, Holly Ansell, Caroline Brereton, Jack Duffield, Rosie MacAskill, Kenny Argar, Edward Bridgen, Andrew Eagle, Dame Angela Madders, Justin Atherton, Sarah Brine, Steve Eagle, Maria Mahmood, Mr Khalid Atkins, Victoria Bristow, Paul Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Shabana Bacon, Gareth Britcliffe, Sara Efford, Clive Malhotra, Seema Bacon, Mr Richard Browne, Anthony Elliott, Julie Maskell, Rachael Badenoch, Kemi Bruce, Fiona Elmore, Chris McCabe, Steve Bailey, Shaun Buchan, Felicity Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Baillie, Siobhan Buckland, rh Robert Evans, Chris McDonagh, Siobhain Baker, Duncan Burghart, Alex Farron, Tim McDonald, Andy Baker, Mr Steve Burns, rh Conor Farry, Stephen McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Baldwin, Harriett Butler, Rob Fellows, Marion McDonald, Stuart C. Barclay, rh Steve Cairns, rh Alun Flynn, Stephen McDonnell, rh John Baron, Mr John Campbell, Mr Gregory Fovargue, Yvonne McFadden, rh Mr Pat Baynes, Simon Carter, Andy Foxcroft, Vicky McGinn, Conor Bell, Aaron Cartlidge, James Foy, Mary Kelly McGovern, Alison Benton, Scott Cash, Sir William Furniss, Gill McLaughlin, Anne Beresford, Sir Paul Cates, Miriam 269 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 270

Chalk, Alex Graham, Richard Lord, Mr Jonathan Saxby, Selaine Chishti, Rehman Grant, Mrs Helen Loughton, Tim Scully, Paul Chope, Sir Christopher Gray, James Mackinlay, Craig Seely, Bob Churchill, Jo Grayling, rh Chris Mackrory, Cherilyn Selous, Andrew Clark, rh Greg Green, Chris Maclean, Rachel Shannon, Jim Clarke, Mr Simon Green, rh Damian Mak, Alan Shapps, rh Grant Clarke, Theo Griffith, Andrew Malthouse, Kit Shelbrooke, rh Alec Clarke-Smith, Brendan Griffiths, Kate Mangnall, Anthony Simmonds, David Clarkson, Chris Grundy, James Mann, Scott Skidmore, rh Chris Cleverly, rh James Gullis, Jonathan Marson, Julie Smith, Chloe Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Halfon, rh Robert Mayhew, Jerome Smith, Greg Colburn, Elliot Hall, Luke Maynard, Paul Smith, rh Julian Collins, Damian Hammond, Stephen McCartney, Jason Smith, Royston Costa, Alberto Hancock, rh Matt McCartney, Karl Solloway, Amanda Courts, Robert Hands, rh Greg McVey, rh Esther Spencer, Dr Ben Coutinho, Claire Harper, rh Mr Mark Menzies, Mark Spencer, rh Mark Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Harris, Rebecca Merriman, Huw Stafford, Alexander Crabb, rh Stephen Harrison, Trudy Millar, Robin Stephenson, Andrew Crosbie, Virginia Hart, Sally-Ann Miller, rh Mrs Maria Stevenson, Jane Crouch, Tracey Hart, rh Simon Milling, rh Amanda Stevenson, John Daly, James Hayes, rh Sir John Mills, Nigel Stewart, rh Bob Davies, David T. C. Heald, rh Sir Oliver Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stewart, Iain Davies, Gareth Heappey, James Mohindra, Mr Gagan Streeter, Sir Gary Davies, Dr James Heaton-Harris, Chris Moore, Damien Stride, rh Mel Davies, Mims Henderson, Gordon Moore, Robbie Stuart, Graham Davies, Philip Henry, Darren Mordaunt, rh Penny Sturdy, Julian Davis, rh Mr David Higginbotham, Antony Morris, David Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Davison, Dehenna Hoare, Simon Morris, James Syms, Sir Robert Dines, Miss Sarah Holden, Mr Richard Morrissey, Joy Thomas, Derek Docherty, Leo Hollinrake, Kevin Mortimer, Jill Throup, Maggie Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Hollobone, Mr Philip Morton, Wendy Timpson, Edward Donelan, Michelle Holmes, Paul Mullan, Dr Kieran Tolhurst, Kelly Dorries, Ms Nadine Howell, John Mumby-Croft, Holly Tomlinson, Justin Double, Steve Howell, Paul Mundell, rh David Tomlinson, Michael Doyle-Price, Jackie Huddleston, Nigel Murray, Mrs Sheryll Tracey, Craig Drax, Richard Hudson, Dr Neil Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Trott, Laura Drummond, Mrs Flick Hughes, Eddie Neill, Sir Robert Tugendhat, Tom Duddridge, James Hunt, Jane Nici, Lia Vara, Shailesh Duguid, David Hunt, rh Jeremy Nokes, rh Caroline Vickers, Martin Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hunt, Tom Norman, rh Jesse Vickers, Matt Eastwood, Mark Jack, rh Mr Alister O’Brien, Neil Villiers, rh Theresa Edwards, Ruth Javid, rh Sajid Offord, Dr Matthew Wakeford, Christian Ellis, rh Michael Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Opperman, Guy Walker, Mr Robin Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jenkin, Sir Bernard Parish, Neil Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jenkinson, Mark Paterson, rh Mr Owen Wallis, Dr Jamie Eustice, rh George Jenkyns, Andrea Pawsey, Mark Warburton, David Evans, Dr Luke Jenrick, rh Robert Penning, rh Sir Mike Warman, Matt Evennett, rh Sir David Johnson, Dr Caroline Penrose, John Watling, Giles Everitt, Ben Johnson, Gareth Philp, Chris Webb, Suzanne Fabricant, Michael Johnston, David Pincher, rh Christopher Whately, Helen Farris, Laura Jones, Andrew Poulter, Dr Dan Wheeler, Mrs Heather Fell, Simon Jones, rh Mr David Pow, Rebecca Whittaker, Craig Fletcher, Katherine Jones, Fay Prentis, Victoria Whittingdale, rh Mr John Fletcher, Mark Jones, Mr Marcus Pursglove, Tom Wiggin, Bill Fletcher, Nick Jupp, Simon Quince, Will Wild, James Ford, Vicky Kawczynski, Daniel Randall, Tom Williams, Craig Foster, Kevin Kearns, Alicia Redwood, rh John Williamson, rh Gavin Francois, rh Mr Mark Keegan, Gillian Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Wilson, rh Sammy Freeman, George Knight, Julian Richards, Nicola Wood, Mike Freer, Mike Kruger, Danny Richardson, Angela Wragg, Mr William Fuller, Richard Lamont, John Roberts, Rob Wright, rh Jeremy Robertson, Mr Laurence Fysh, Mr Marcus Largan, Robert Young, Jacob Robinson, Mary Gale, rh Sir Roger Latham, Mrs Pauline Zahawi, Nadhim Garnier, Mark Leadsom, rh Dame Andrea Rosindell, Andrew Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lewer, Andrew Rowley, Lee Tellers for the Noes: Gibb, rh Nick Lewis, rh Brandon Russell, Dean David Rutley and Gibson, Peter Lewis, rh Dr Julian Sambrook, Gary Maria Caulfield Gideon, Jo Loder, Chris Girvan, Paul Logan, Mark Question accordingly negatived. Glen, John Longhi, Marco Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 62(2)), Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lopez, Julia That the Bill be now read a Second time. Gove, rh Michael Lopresti, Jack 271 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 272

The House divided: Ayes 327, Noes 228. Griffith, Andrew Malthouse, Kit Griffiths, Kate Mangnall, Anthony Division No. 61] [7.14 pm Grundy, James Mann, Scott Gullis, Jonathan Marson, Julie AYES Halfon, rh Robert Mayhew, Jerome Hall, Luke Maynard, Paul Adams, Nigel Collins, Damian Hammond, Stephen McCartney, Jason Afolami, Bim Costa, Alberto Hancock, rh Matt McCartney, Karl Afriyie, Adam Courts, Robert Hands, rh Greg McVey, rh Esther Aiken, Nickie Coutinho, Claire Harper, rh Mr Mark Menzies, Mark Aldous, Peter Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Harris, Rebecca Millar, Robin Allan, Lucy Crabb, rh Stephen Harrison, Trudy Miller, rh Mrs Maria Amess, Sir David Crosbie, Virginia Hart, Sally-Ann Milling, rh Amanda Anderson, Lee Crouch, Tracey Hart, rh Simon Mills, Nigel Andrew, rh Stuart Daly, James Hayes, rh Sir John Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Ansell, Caroline Davies, David T. C. Heald, rh Sir Oliver Mohindra, Mr Gagan Argar, Edward Davies, Gareth Heappey, James Moore, Damien Atherton, Sarah Davies, Dr James Heaton-Harris, Chris Moore, Robbie Atkins, Victoria Davies, Mims Henderson, Gordon Mordaunt, rh Penny Bacon, Gareth Davies, Philip Henry, Darren Morris, David Bacon, Mr Richard Davis, rh Mr David Higginbotham, Antony Morris, James Badenoch, Kemi Davison, Dehenna Hoare, Simon Morrissey, Joy Bailey, Shaun Dines, Miss Sarah Holden, Mr Richard Mortimer, Jill Baillie, Siobhan Docherty, Leo Hollinrake, Kevin Morton, Wendy Baker, Duncan Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Hollobone, Mr Philip Mullan, Dr Kieran Baker, Mr Steve Donelan, Michelle Holmes, Paul Mumby-Croft, Holly Baldwin, Harriett Dorries, Ms Nadine Howell, John Mundell, rh David Barclay, rh Steve Double, Steve Howell, Paul Murray, Mrs Sheryll Baron, Mr John Doyle-Price, Jackie Huddleston, Nigel Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Baynes, Simon Drax, Richard Hudson, Dr Neil Neill, Sir Robert Bell, Aaron Drummond, Mrs Flick Hughes, Eddie Nici, Lia Benton, Scott Duddridge, James Hunt, Jane Nokes, rh Caroline Beresford, Sir Paul Duguid, David Hunt, rh Jeremy Norman, rh Jesse Berry, rh Jake Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hunt, Tom O’Brien, Neil Bhatti, Saqib Eastwood, Mark Jack, rh Mr Alister Offord, Dr Matthew Blackman, Bob Edwards, Ruth Javid, rh Sajid Opperman, Guy Blunt, Crispin Ellis, rh Michael Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Parish, Neil Bone, Mr Peter Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jenkin, Sir Bernard Paterson, rh Mr Owen Bowie, Andrew Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jenkinson, Mark Pawsey, Mark Bradley, Ben Eustice, rh George Jenkyns, Andrea Penning, rh Sir Mike Bradley, rh Karen Evans, Dr Luke Jenrick, rh Robert Penrose, John Brady, Sir Graham Evennett, rh Sir David Johnson, Dr Caroline Philp, Chris Brereton, Jack Everitt, Ben Johnson, Gareth Pincher, rh Christopher Bridgen, Andrew Fabricant, Michael Johnston, David Poulter, Dr Dan Brine, Steve Farris, Laura Jones, Andrew Pow, Rebecca Bristow, Paul Fell, Simon Jones, rh Mr David Prentis, Victoria Britcliffe, Sara Fletcher, Katherine Jones, Fay Pursglove, Tom Browne, Anthony Fletcher, Mark Jones, Mr Marcus Quince, Will Bruce, Fiona Fletcher, Nick Jupp, Simon Randall, Tom Buchan, Felicity Ford, Vicky Kawczynski, Daniel Redwood, rh John Buckland, rh Robert Foster, Kevin Kearns, Alicia Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Burghart, Alex Francois, rh Mr Mark Keegan, Gillian Richards, Nicola Burns, rh Conor Freeman, George Knight, Julian Richardson, Angela Butler, Rob Freer, Mike Kruger, Danny Roberts, Rob Cairns, rh Alun Fuller, Richard Lamont, John Robertson, Mr Laurence Campbell, Mr Gregory Fysh, Mr Marcus Largan, Robert Robinson, Mary Carter, Andy Gale, rh Sir Roger Latham, Mrs Pauline Rosindell, Andrew Cartlidge, James Garnier, Mark Leadsom, rh Dame Andrea Rowley, Lee Cash, Sir William Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lewer, Andrew Russell, Dean Cates, Miriam Gibb, rh Nick Lewis, rh Brandon Sambrook, Gary Chalk, Alex Gibson, Peter Lewis, rh Dr Julian Saxby, Selaine Chishti, Rehman Gideon, Jo Loder, Chris Scully, Paul Chope, Sir Christopher Girvan, Paul Logan, Mark Seely, Bob Churchill, Jo Glen, John Longhi, Marco Selous, Andrew Clark, rh Greg Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lopez, Julia Shannon, Jim Clarke, Mr Simon Gove, rh Michael Lopresti, Jack Shapps, rh Grant Clarke, Theo Graham, Richard Lord, Mr Jonathan Shelbrooke, rh Alec Clarke-Smith, Brendan Grant, Mrs Helen Loughton, Tim Simmonds, David Clarkson, Chris Gray, James Mackinlay, Craig Skidmore, rh Chris Cleverly, rh James Grayling, rh Chris Mackrory, Cherilyn Smith, Chloe Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Green, Chris Maclean, Rachel Smith, Greg Colburn, Elliot Green, rh Damian Mak, Alan Smith, rh Julian 273 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Elections Bill 274

Smith, Royston Vickers, Matt Grady, Patrick Mishra, Navendu Solloway, Amanda Villiers, rh Theresa Grant, Peter Monaghan, Carol Spencer, Dr Ben Wakeford, Christian Green, Kate Moran, Layla Spencer, rh Mark Walker, Mr Robin Green, Sarah Morgan, Stephen Stafford, Alexander Wallis, Dr Jamie Greenwood, Lilian Murray, Ian Stephenson, Andrew Warburton, David Greenwood, Margaret Murray, James Stevenson, Jane Warman, Matt Griffith, Nia Newlands, Gavin Stevenson, John Watling, Giles Gwynne, Andrew Nichols, Charlotte Stewart, rh Bob Webb, Suzanne Haigh, Louise Nicolson, John Stewart, Iain Whately, Helen Hamilton, Fabian Norris, Alex Streeter, Sir Gary Wheeler, Mrs Heather Hanvey, Neale O’Hara, Brendan Stride, rh Mel Whittaker, Craig Hardy, Emma Olney, Sarah Stuart, Graham Whittingdale, rh Mr John Harris, Carolyn Onwurah, Chi Sturdy, Julian Wiggin, Bill Hayes, Helen Oppong-Asare, Abena Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Wild, James Healey, rh John Osborne, Kate Syms, Sir Robert Williams, Craig Hendrick, Sir Mark Oswald, Kirsten Thomas, Derek Williamson, rh Gavin Hendry, Drew Owatemi, Taiwo Throup, Maggie Wilson, rh Sammy Hillier, Dame Meg Peacock, Stephanie Timpson, Edward Wood, Mike Hobhouse, Wera Pennycook, Matthew Tolhurst, Kelly Wragg, Mr William Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Mr Toby Tomlinson, Justin Hollern, Kate Wright, rh Jeremy Phillips, Jess Tomlinson, Michael Hopkins, Rachel Phillipson, Bridget Young, Jacob Tracey, Craig Hosie, rh Stewart Qaisar-Javed, Anum Zahawi, Nadhim Trott, Laura Howarth, rh Sir George Qureshi, Yasmin Tugendhat, Tom Tellers for the Ayes: Huq, Dr Rupa Rayner, rh Angela Vara, Shailesh David Rutley and Hussain, Imran Reed, Steve Vickers, Martin Maria Caulfield Jardine, Christine Rees, Christina Jarvis, Dan Reeves, Rachel NOES Johnson, Kim Reynolds, Jonathan Jones, Darren Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Abbott, rh Ms Diane Cowan, Ronnie Jones, Gerald Rimmer, Ms Marie Abrahams, Debbie Coyle, Neil Jones, rh Mr Kevan Rodda, Matt Ali, Rushanara Creasy, Stella (Proxy vote Jones, Ruth Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena cast by Chris Elmore) Jones, Sarah Saville Roberts, rh Liz Amesbury, Mike Cruddas, Jon Kane, Mike Shah, Naz Anderson, Fleur Cryer, John Kendall, Liz Sharma, Mr Virendra Antoniazzi, Tonia Cummins, Judith Khan, Afzal Sheppard, Tommy Beckett, rh Margaret Cunningham, Alex Kinnock, Stephen Siddiq, Tulip Davey, rh Ed Begum, Apsana Kyle, Peter Slaughter, Andy David, Wayne Benn, rh Hilary Lake, Ben Smith, Alyn Davies, Geraint Betts, Mr Clive Lammy, rh Mr David Smith, Cat Davies-Jones, Alex Black, Mhairi Lavery, Ian Smith, Jeff De Cordova, Marsha Law, Chris Smith, Nick Blackford, rh Ian Debbonaire, Thangam Blackman, Kirsty Leadbeater, Kim Smyth, Karin Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Sobel, Alex Blake, Olivia Docherty-Hughes, Martin Lewis, Clive Spellar, rh John Blomfield, Paul Dodds, Anneliese Linden, David Starmer, rh Keir Bonnar, Steven Doogan, Dave Lloyd, Tony Stephens, Chris Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Dorans, Allan Long Bailey, Rebecca Stevens, Jo Brennan, Kevin Doughty, Stephen Lucas, Caroline Stone, Jamie Brown, Alan Dromey, Jack Lynch, Holly Streeting, Wes Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Duffield, Rosie MacAskill, Kenny Stringer, Graham Buck, Ms Karen Eagle, Dame Angela Madders, Justin Sultana, Zarah Burgon, Richard Eagle, Maria Mahmood, Mr Khalid Tami, rh Mark Butler, Dawn Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Shabana Tarry, Sam Efford, Clive Byrne, Ian Malhotra, Seema Thewliss, Alison Elliott, Julie Byrne, rh Liam Maskell, Rachael Thomas, Gareth Elmore, Chris Cadbury, Ruth McCabe, Steve Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Thompson, Owen Cameron, Dr Lisa Evans, Chris McDonagh, Siobhain Thomson, Richard Campbell, rh Sir Alan Farron, Tim McDonald, Andy Thornberry, rh Emily Carden, Dan Farry, Stephen McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Timms, rh Stephen Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Fellows, Marion McDonald, Stuart C. Trickett, Jon Champion, Sarah Flynn, Stephen McDonnell, rh John Vaz, rh Valerie Chapman, Douglas Fovargue, Yvonne McFadden, rh Mr Pat Webbe, Claudia Charalambous, Bambos Foxcroft, Vicky McGinn, Conor West, Catherine Cherry, Joanna Foy, Mary Kelly McGovern, Alison Western, Matt Clark, Feryal (Proxy vote cast Furniss, Gill McLaughlin, Anne Whitehead, Dr Alan by Chris Elmore) Gardiner, Barry McMahon, Jim Whitford, Dr Philippa Cooper, Daisy Gibson, Patricia McMorrin, Anna Whittome, Nadia Cooper, rh Yvette Gill, Preet Kaur Mearns, Ian Williams, Hywel Corbyn, rh Jeremy Glindon, Mary Miliband, rh Edward Wilson, Munira 275 Elections Bill 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 276

Winter, Beth Tellers for the Noes: (a) any expenditure incurred by a Minister of the Crown under Wishart, Pete and or by virtue of the Act, and Yasin, Mohammad Colleen Fletcher (b) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable Zeichner, Daniel under any other Act out of money so provided, (2) the payment out of the Consolidated Fund of any increase Question accordingly agreed to. attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act Bill read a Second time. out of that Fund, and (3) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Scott Mann.) ELECTIONS BILL (PROGRAMME) Question agreed to. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)), Business without Debate That the following provisions shall apply to the Elections Bill: Committal BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (9 SEPTEMBER) (1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. Ordered, Proceedings in Public Bill Committee That, at the sitting on Thursday 9 September, proceedings on (2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not the business determined by the Backbench Business Committee previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Wednesday shall be entered upon immediately after the conclusion of the 3 November 2021. remaining stages of the Rating (Coronavirus) and Directors (3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the Disqualification (Dissolved Companies) Bill, and, notwithstanding first day on which it meets. the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (4) of Standing Order No. 14 (Arrangement of public business) insofar as they relate to Proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading the timing of half days, may be proceeded with until 5.00 pm or (4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously for three hours, whichever is the later, and shall then lapse if not concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the previously disposed of; and those proceedings may continue, moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on though opposed, after the moment of interruption.—(Scott Mann.) Consideration are commenced. (5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption DELEGATED LEGISLATION on that day. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing (6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not Order No. 118(6)), apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading. Other proceedings INSOLVENCY (7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Scott That the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 Mann.) (Coronavirus) (Extension of the Relevant Period) (No. 2) Regulations Question agreed to. 2021 (SI 2021, No. 718), a copy of which was laid before this House on 21 June, be approved.—(Scott Mann.) Question agreed to. ELECTIONS BILL (MONEY) Queen’s recommendation signified. EDUCATION Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Ordered, Order No. 52(1)(a)), That Jonathan Gullis be discharged from the Education Committee That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Elections and Nicola Richards be added.—(Mike Freer, on behalf of the Bill, it is expedient to authorise— Committee of Selection.) (1) the payment out of money provided by Parliament of— 277 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Local Policing 278

Local Policing Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate and support Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House what he just said about community policing. The difficulties do now adjourn.—(Scott Mann.) to which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) referred are replicated throughout the 7.28 pm whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) community policing, to which he has referred, with (Con): I am delighted to have secured this Adjournment local faces and compassion, understanding and an debate. The safety and security of our people and their unwavering desire to serve the local community, is what property is one of the primary roles, if not the primary is needed? Furthermore, does he also agree that the role, of any Government. In this country, we are lucky creation or enhancement of such a force needs the that we have in our police forces, a body of dedicated, necessary investment and funding? professional men and women, ready and willing to take upon themselves the heavy duty of policing our country, by consent of the public, and ensuring their safety. In Andrew Bowie: I absolutely agree with everything that the Conservative party, we have a Government who are my hon. Friend said. Given that we are speaking about committed to supporting the police service, and all police forces throughout the whole United Kingdom, those who serve in it, to carry out their increasingly we should pay special recognition to the Police Service complex and difficult job—it is in our DNA. It was of Northern Ireland, which does so much on a daily Sir Robert Peel, the father of the modern Conservative basis, in incredibly difficult circumstances that are not party, who, through his Metropolitan Police Act 1829, faced by any other police service in this country, to created the first civilian, professional, centrally organised maintain the peace and safety of the people in my hon. police force for , established on the Friend’sconstituency of Strangford and, indeed, throughout principal of policing by consent. This is about recognising the whole of Northern Ireland. I am glad that he brought that point to the House. “always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions Policing is, of course, devolved. That decision was and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public taken in 1999 and is one that I wholeheartedly support, respect.” for I believe that, just as with our continued support for That is why the Conservative party has committed itself locally elected police and crime commissioners, the to putting 20,000 more police on the streets of England power over such things should lie at the level that is the and Wales, backed by a £750 million recruitment campaign, closest possible to the public. But that does not mean and we are giving police enhanced powers to crack that policing exists in a vacuum or silo, and that is even down on violent crime. As a party, we are committed to more true in the digital age. Our forces co-operate on a maintaining the local, democratic accountability of police number of fronts, up and down the country. That being forces throughout England and Wales through elected the case, I envisaged this debate as an opportunity for police and crime commissioners. MPs from every part of the United Kingdom—we have heard from the west midlands and Northern Ireland—and of all parties to reflect on the challenges faced by local Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): I am policing in their constituencies, whether because of grateful to the hon. Member for initiating this debate. geography, financing or the impact of covid-19. The simple and sad reality in the west midlands is that in 2010 we had 1,821 community officers but by 2018 Let me give some examples. In my constituency, we had 716. Despite the efforts of our PCCs, David following the tragedy on the railway at Carmont last Jamieson and Simon Foster, all that the Government year,we sawthe British Transport police keeping passengers are promising in the next stage is 1,000 officers. That safe and working closely with Police Scotland to secure means we will be more than 1,000 police officers down the site and assist the investigation. In the largest joint on where we were in 2010. Does the hon. Member operation to take place in Scotland—and perhaps understand the real concern that there is on behalf of throughout Britain—Operation Venetic involved police beleaguered communities such as Stockland Green in forces throughout the UK and the National Crime my constituency, which is seeing serious rises in crime Agency. It resulted, in July last year, in 59 arrests; the and antisocial behaviour? In all honesty, the Government seizure of £7 million of laundered cash, along with have let the police service and the public down. guns, ammunition, explosives, stolen vehicles and industrial pill presses; and a major haul of drugs of every classification. Andrew Bowie: The hon. Gentleman raises an incredibly It ended in the takedown of a digital platform, EncroChat, important point. All of us who represent communities used by criminals around the world to get poison into across the whole breadth of the United Kingdom all our communities—technology that did not respect understand the importance of having a locally visible borders, political or geographical. police service so as to maintain public safety and, in In the north-east of Scotland, which is my part of the essence,make people feel safer.That is whythe Government world, we have seen many examples of what is known, are investing so much in the recruitment of more police perhaps too blithely, as cuckooing. It is the last step in officers. If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting, as I think what is often referred to as county lines drug trafficking, he is, that more could be done and more police officers where dealers from large cities expand their operations should be recruited in the west midlands, I absolutely into smaller towns. They endeavour to exploit young support him in that call and urge the Government to and vulnerable people to sell drugs, carry cash and listen to him. If more police officers are needed in the weapons, bringing violence, coercion and abuse. They west midlands, that is exactly what the west midlands may also take over a vulnerable person’s house. Again, should get. this is where policing blurs lines between public protection 279 Local Policing 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Local Policing 280 and being present and knowledgeable in the communities emails and letters about local policing matters since my where officers live and work, acting on intelligence that election to this place in 2017. Although I know that, by has been passed on by colleagues in the north of England the powers of his office, he cannot effect most of these or the Metropolitan police. decisions, I believe that I have a duty as a locally elected That brings me on to the subject proper of local representative to raise these concerns brought to me by policing, particularly the presence and visibility of local my constituents in this sovereign parliament of the officers. Even today, I have obtained figures that show a United Kingdom, to which I have been lucky enough to serious reduction in the number of beat bobbies since be elected. 2017—almost 80 officers in A division of Police Scotland In response to a local consultation on the proposed alone. Of course it can be shown that the number of closure of its police station, more than 100 residents of national officers has increased, but that is of little value Portlethen, a large and growing commuter town on the to someone who has been broken into in Kemnay or in edge of Aberdeen, expressed their concern that a permanent Laurencekirk in my constituency. Our hard-working presence in their community would be lost. Many people officers on the frontline in Aberdeenshire, which I am expressed their concern that, on the occasions that they lucky to represent, deserve to be fully resourced, and I had knocked on the door, there was no one in; and few am sorry to say that the closure of stations across my people had called in due to the common knowledge that constituency will only heighten the problems.Communities it was unstaffed most of the time. However, to me that is such as Portlethen, which I represent, deserve more a result of understaffing and a lack of investment, not police patrolling in their streets, just as they do in the an argument to close the station and create a hub at west midlands and in Northern Ireland. Indeed, if Stonehaven, 10 miles further down the coast. Portlethen Portlethen police station closes, officers will be based is a growing town, close to Aberdeen city, on the east 10 miles away in Stonehaven. coast main line. Sadly, despite the excellent work of individual officers I am not for one minute suggesting that I or the and cross-border working on so many issues, we have community are wedded to the existing building—having seen over the past few years an increase in the centralisation visited it, it is clear that it is not what the public expect of police services in Scotland. In 2013, we saw the loss of a modern police station—but to remove the permanent of local accountability following the merger of eight physical presence of the police from Portlethen altogether police forces in Scotland into Police Scotland, which is is a move based on budgetary decisions in Edinburgh governed by the Scottish Police Authority and accountable rather than on the needs of the local area. It will mean solely to Scottish Ministers. In 2017, we saw the closure that police officers will be worked even harder than they of the Aberdeen and Inverness Control Rooms, which are; that they will, by necessity, provide a more reactive followed Dumfries, Stirling and Glenrothes, with the service with less ability to provide proactive intelligence whole country now covered by Dundee, Motherwell gathering; and, ultimately, a reduction in the level of and Glasgow. community policing that we know is valued by all our It is now questioned whether Peel ever said that constituents across the UK. “the police are the public and the public are the police”, The North East division of Police Scotland is 60 officers but that very principle is at the heart of how the police under establishment. We know the pressure that police in the United Kingdom operate. Very often, it is about services across the country are under, not least in this the presence of the police in the community that can year of dealing with enforcing covid regulations, securing make people feel safer and more secure. At the very the G7 and preparing for COP26, on top of all their heart of that principle—at the very heart of how we usual duties. The closure of Portlethen police station, as police this country and of how our people are protected an example of a move away from having a permanent from harm—is the idea of local community policing, by police presence in our communities, is a worry to many which I mean a police presence in each local community. people. I urge those in charge to look at alternatives—not Police Scotland, especially the north-east division, is necessarily maintaining the present building, but using an excellent police force. Its officers carry out their imagination and investment to build a better and more duties diligently and with commitment to the people of visible police force in my part of the country. the communities they serve. I am proud to say that I Let me be clear that I do not blame Police Scotland. I often hear constituents praising police officers, but I do, however, point the finger of blame at others with fear that the work that they do, particularly in the Old responsibility. For example, one of the biggest barriers Grampian police area in the north-east of Scotland, is to keeping police offices open, even for a few hours a being undercut by decisions being made elsewhere. week in more rural areas, is actually non-domestic rates. Across Scotland, since 2015, 134 police stations have This issue is not specific to Scotland, but Police Scotland’s been closed, including five in Aberdeenshire, a large capital spending is ranked at 38 out of the 42 UK forces part of which I am privileged to represent. In Aberdeenshire, when considered per employee. I wonder whether we notwithstanding the incredible work of local police would be seeing these decisions in Scotland today if we officers, crime has increased by 5% in this period. had more local accountability in Scotland—elected police Figures show that police numbers have dropped by commissioners, or even local authority police boards almost 80 since 2017. How is the main priority of local with a connection to local communities. policing—keeping people safe through a community-based Every constituency in this House is represented by approach—to be achieved if we do not have the numbers passionate, committed Members of Parliament. Weknow or the proper resources? Our communities and our and hear the concerns of our constituents on a whole hardworking officers on the frontline deserve better. heap of issues every day. I could not not raise those I know that the Minister on the Front Bench has no concerns when presented with this opportunity today. I responsibility for these decisions being taken in Edinburgh, therefore thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for indulging but as a constituency MP, I have had hundreds of me in raising on the Floor of the House what is nominally 281 Local Policing 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Local Policing 282

[Andrew Bowie] murder in Shepherd’s Bush, and the then borough commander in and —a chap a devolved issue. I also thank the Minister, who I know called Kevin Hurley, who went on to be the police and will join me in thanking all those in the police service crime commissioner in Surrey—called a public meeting across the entire UK for keeping us safe; will commend that I attended. There was a row of people at the front the police forces for their incredible cross-border work of this very large public meeting, with 300 people there, across our one nation; and will reiterate our commitment and one of the issues that came up was the fact that to and our championing of local policing, be that in Shepherd’s Bush Green police station was not open Aberdeenshire or anywhere else on these islands. 24 hours a day; it was closed at night and people were concerned about it. Kevin said, “That’s great: I will reopen the police station if you want me to. Now tell 7.42 pm me, which police officers would you like me to bring in off patrol to man the desk?” Of course the audience The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): said, “No, no—we don’t want you to do that.” He then I heartily endorse my hon. Friend’s closing remarks. We said, rather smartly, “Well, why don’t we leave the lights offer our eternal thanks to those who keep us safe on a on so it looks like it’s open?” They thought that was a daily basis. I am privileged to see them in operation at jolly good idea because the police station was a proxy close hand, and have done so for more or less the past for presence. It was as important to them as I know the decade. My admiration for them grows every day. As he police station in Portlethen is to my hon. Friend’s said, they have our thanks both individually and collectively, constituents. as a United Kingdom body of men and women to be By the way, while that might not be a suitable building, admired and protected. it is a small, handsome stone building with a great I commend my hon. Friend for bringing his constituents’ history to it, as my hon. Friend said, as part of the concerns to the Floor of the House. One of the great former Grampian police, so I can see why there is characteristics of our democracy, which I have outlined disappointment locally that it may be closing. I know to my constituents again and again—not least during that he is engaging very closely with Police Scotland the Brexit debates that raged in this country—is that and has been quite innovative in his suggestions of a somebody can get hold of us by the lapels in the high replacement—not least, I understand, some presence in street in Andover or in Portlethen, and give us a good the local Asda, which might also be a useful proxy for a shake; then, on a Tuesday evening, we can show up in police station and somewhere that police officers could the House of Commons and grab the Minister responsible operate from. However, as I say, I am twice removed by the lapels, and give him or her a good shake; and the from that decision. I urge him and his constituents to Minister in turn can grab the Home Secretary or, indeed, keep up that engagement with Police Scotland, not least the Prime Minister, and give them a good poke about because, if the police station does go, that underlines something that matters to people in a relatively small the need for, exactly as he said, a strong presence on the community. I am hesitant to raise the spectre of Brexit streets of Portlethen, as he wants across the whole of in this debate, but as I said to my constituents at the his very beautiful constituency. time of the referendum, “What would the Interior I urge my hon. Friend to keep pushing on this, not Minister of a new United States of Europe care about least because in England and Wales there is a desire, as the police station in Portlethen or the number of police the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack officers in Andover?” It is marvellous that we are able to Dromey) mentioned, that we are trying to fulfil with the bring these issues to the Floor of this House and to recruitment of 20,000 extra police officers. Of course, debate them with the people who are responsible. that is 20,000 gross. The overall recruitment over three Sadly, though, as my hon. Friend pointed out, in this years will in the end, to backfill retirements, need to be case I am not my proxy, for policing runs only in about 45,000. That will push many police forces up to England and Wales. I am therefore obviously twice levels of policing that they have not seen for some time. removed in the situation. First, it is obviously a devolved On top of that, a lot of police and crime commissioners matter. Secondly, it is a matter that falls under operational are recruiting beyond their allocation from the police independence. It is effectively for the chief constable in uplift so that some parts of the country will have more each area to decide on strategy, workforce planning, police officers than ever before. The Kent constabulary, and the buildings and vehicles deployed in aid of the for example, can already boast that it has the highest protection of the communities they serve. Although number of police officers that it has ever had in its they will obviously listen closely to local communities, it history. is fundamentally their decision. Having said that, I do In response to the hon. Gentleman’s challenge, which understand the strong concern that my hon. Friend has is a fair one, I urge him to look to his police and crime raised about the notion of presence. One of the key commissioner to do the same as a number of other concerns that we all hear as constituency Members of commissioners and put their money behind their own Parliament is this concern about police presence: the part of the recruitment campaign. West Midlands is idea that there should be governed, guarded space in doing well. There is a large allocation of new police the public realm; that every street in England, Wales, officers coming, but there is always more that can be Scotland and Northern Ireland should be safe for public done. I urge him to support us in trying to get the use so that people can go about their business unmolested; maximum number of police officers we can for the and that the guardians of that should be the police. money that is allowed to us. This was illustrated to me very strongly back in 2011, I am very pleased that my hon. Friend underlined the when I was deputy Mayor for policing in London and integral nature of Police Scotland—the vital part that it Assembly Member for West Central. There was a horrible plays in the architecture of UK policing. It is absolutely 283 Local Policing 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Local Policing 284 the case that, while the governance and accountability of Police Scotland at the moment, but I am convinced framework for Police Scotland is devolved, its role in that there is always more we can do together, not least the safety of the whole United Kingdom is absolutely because the drugs problem in Scotland—the solving of critical. UK policing can only succeed or fail as a whole. which is as dear to my heart as solving it in Andover or This was neatly outlined to us—I was pleased that he anywhere else in England and Wales—is one we will mentioned it—with the advent of Operation Venetic. only crack together. Scotland has some advantages, in This extraordinary operation—a magnificent achievement that the ability of gangs to get drugs into Scotland is by the National Crime Agency, which of course works restricted. There are basically two roads in and two rail across the whole of the UK—cracked open the bespoke lines in, give or take, which gives us enormous opportunities criminal communications system known as Encrochat. for interception, but the greater sharing of technology, It revealed some awful horrors across the whole of the the putting together of our heads and the binding of United Kingdom that we were able to get ahead of. our efforts as one United Kingdom to confront this Chief among them was the targeting of Scotland by plague and crime will be successful. That is a key part of organised crime specifically for the trafficking of drugs. our “Beating crime plan”, which we published just My hon. Friend mentioned some of the remarkable before the recess, making sure that we work together as results that continue to come from the intelligence a whole country in fighting crime, at the same time as gathered as part of that operation. getting the basics right. The most impactful result for me was that, as part of One of the chapters in our “Beating crime plan” is Operation Venetic, Kent constabulary was able to bust about excellence in the basics, and it speaks to the desire open a factory in its county that was manufacturing of local policing. You, Mr Deputy Speaker, I and every street benzos—benzodiazepines—specifically for use in Member in this House want to ensure that our constituents Scotland, where they are a plague in places such as know they are safe, feel safe and see that they are safe Glasgow, causing so many drug deaths, which are a on a daily basis, because the brave men and women of terrible tragedy in Scotland. They were being manufactured Police Scotland, Hampshire police, West Midlands police, for export to Scotland. As part of that raid, the police the Police Service of Northern Ireland and all those recovered 27 million tablets, which for a country of police forces are able to be out there, visible, doing their 6.5 million people is quite a few tablets each and a hell job and protecting us all for the good of the whole. of a lot of money that would have been drained out of I do not think that my hon. Friend should in the Glasgow, all of it leading to degradation and misery slightest apologise for bringing this matter before the north of the border. The role that UK policing can play House. This is what we are here for. If we are not here to together, particularly to suppress drug supply and take talk about the problems, worries and concerns of our on organised crime, and the critical nature of Police individual constituents, what on earth is the point? Scotland in that, has never been more important. Question put and agreed to. I was very pleased just a few weeks ago to pay a very interesting visit to Police Scotland to see the work that it is doing, not least at Gartcosh, its crime campus. I am 7.53 pm very impressed by the work it does and by the leadership House adjourned.

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line with other parts of the country. Those major Westminster Hall interventions are all coming together this autumn, with a number of key decisions on which the Government Tuesday 7 September 2021 need to come down on the side of investment and development in our region. First, the East Midlands Development Corporation—the [SIR DAVID AMESS in the Chair] devco—represents a major opportunity to regenerate and to create jobs and homes on key sites. It gives us the East Midlands Economy opportunity to masterplan our area to ensure that we are bringing forward the very best employment 9.30 am opportunities; that we are leading the way on green Sir David Amess (in the Chair): Colleagues, I realise growth and environmental policy; and that we are offering that we have not done things in person for a very long investors a very attractive opportunity to simplify the time, so everyone is rusty and not everyone will be planning process to get things done at pace. It currently aware of the procedures. This is not a pointed dig at the sits over three sites, but in the future, with the right proposer of the debate, but please do ensure that you democratic oversight, it could be used to bring forward get here in good time. There are no longer any call lists; further sites across our region. if you want to speak in a debate, drop the Chair a note This development vehicle could be a major weapon in beforehand. However, I will still call those who have not our armoury, with the right Government backing. If we done so today. We are juggling with the time limits, but can utilise it effectively into the future rather than everyone will be called, so please do not be selfish and continuing to adopt a piecemeal approach, with all take other people’s time. sorts of different vehicles and delivery mechanisms popping up all over the place, we can take a long-term To return to my script, Members still have to wear strategic approach to our region’s growth. Therefore, masks when they are not speaking, I am afraid. That is key decision No. 1 is to back the development corporation still the rule. Members should send their speaking notes in the planning legislation this autumn, and give it the by email to Hansard at [email protected]. powers and guarantees it needs. 9.31 am Secondly,there is the east midlands freeport. Colleagues lobbied hard last year to secure the east midlands as one Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con): I beg to move, of the key sites for a freeport to take advantage of our That this House has considered the future of the East Midlands post-Brexit trading opportunities and to boost business economy. and jobs in our region with a unique proposition: the It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, only inland freeport in the UK, built around an airport Sir David, to be just on time and to bring this important rather than on the coast. This has the potential to act as debate to the House about the economy of the east a hub and as the heart of the wider freeport network, as midlands, which follows on from the Adjournment well as the logistical centre of the UK, with its key debate I held in July about devolution for our area. It geographical location and proximity to major road, rail has been a busy summer and lots of progress has been and air connections. made on the proposals and on wider developments and The outline business case will be submitted this week. major projects that I hope to put across to the Minister Once again, I and MPs across the region call on the this morning. Government to back us to help deliver this freeport, It is clear that the east midlands has huge untapped along with the council and business partners; to support potential and must be at the heart of the Government’s our vision to level up the east midlands; to create jobs levelling-up plans in the spending review and the levelling-up and opportunities for people in our region; and to White Paper this autumn. I hope to take the Minister maximise the potential of this package of projects I am through some of those developments this morning. As going through today. The whole will be bigger than the Members might imagine, as a Notts MP and the sum of the parts if these actions can be taken in unison. Nottinghamshire County Council leader, I will have more to say on Nottinghamshire, but I trust and hope Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): I congratulate that colleagues will chip in about the proposals and the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He is opportunities across their constituencies. making a powerful case about the need for investment, but that case is fundamentally undermined by the For context, the east midlands is home to over 5 million Government’s constant dithering on the eastern leg of people and over 175,000 businesses. We have a diverse HS2. I have never known a Government to spend so mix of counties and cities, with market towns, countryside, much money on a project so unenthusiastically. Over and distinct cultures and communities. It contains world- the summer, we have again seen the suggestion that the class business, innovation and manufacturing excellence, eastern leg will be cancelled. Does the fact that and the region’s economy of £99 billion has untapped the Government will not once and for all commit to the potential for growth. Despite that critical mass and eastern leg of HS2 not fundamentally undermine the potential, the east midlands has received some of the case he is making? lowest levels of Government investment and private investment over many years compared with other parts Ben Bradley: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his of the country. intervention; he has neatly predicted my next paragraph, Back in July, I met the Prime Minister and laid out which is about the integrated rail plan and Toton. All four huge opportunities for the east midlands that can sorts of rumours have gone around over the summer. create jobs, unlock housing and growth, and get the As the chair of the east midlands HS2 delivery board, I region up to a level of support and investment that is in have had a lot of conversations with Ministers and 3WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 4WH

[Ben Bradley] Transport ahead of that decision about what is possible and about ensuring that key local priorities are part of officials about this matter and have pushed for the that decision. I know the headlines will be about how certainty that he asks for. HS2 is a major opportunity much track is going down and whether HS2 goes from for the east midlands. I recognise that it is not universally place A to place B, so there is a risk that our local popular, so I am not going to go on about the benefits requirements will be lost. That cannot be allowed to of the eastern leg in full or the wider project, but this is happen. For us, whether it is a win for the area and a debate on the east midlands, so I will focus on the whether we can support the decision as local stakeholders local part. ultimately depends on the details. Does it deliver growth, The key, for us, is that Toton is a major centre for our and where? What is the impact on our regional connectivity? future growth. It is a site where we have invested almost Will it help to deliver projects like the Robin Hood line, a decade of work and planning, and tens of millions in access to Toton and the midlands rail hub? Those are infrastructure and preparation, including direct tram key questions that need to be answered in the IRP. I connections to Nottingham city, where there is huge trust that the Minister will pass on my request for that interest in investing in skills, research and innovation, as conversation with the DFT. well as in commercial and residential development. It is worth saying that these sites—Toton and the Success for Toton could unlock plans to the north, related freeport—could all benefit from partnership around Chesterfield and Bolsover,for a major engineering with the devco, combining the existing opportunities centre built around HS2, which has the potential to and incentives with a master-planning element and create 2,500 jobs in an area of north Nottinghamshire simplified processes for the development corporation to and north Derbyshire that should be at the heart of the deliver bigger, better and faster. It is important that it levelling-up agenda. Those are former coalfield, post- has the right oversight, and I will get on to that, but industrial towns—the epitome of the kind of red wall bringing key sites together under this delivery mechanism areas that need support and to which we made big could supercharge the whole package. As I said, the promises of support at the last election. whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. This is a package of interventions, with key decisions to be taken Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I have in the coming months. to confess that I am a little confused by the hon. Point No. 4 is about devolution. I held an Adjournment Gentleman’s reaction to the intervention by my hon. debate on this topic in the summer before we went into Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins). Is he recess, in which I laid out the potential benefit of suggesting that the connectivity that the HS2 eastern devolved powers for our region and the impact we could leg would provide—not just a station at Toton, but the make on our communities if we could make bespoke fast connections to Leeds, York, the north-east and local interventions. We could improve our skills offer, Scotland, as well as the connection to the west midlands— intervene where there are health inequalities, improve somehow does not matter and is not essential to the and join up our transport network, boost economic future success of our region? development, collaborate more effectively across different authorities, and plan for housing in a more strategic Ben Bradley: I thank the hon. Lady for that. She and joined-up way. There is a lot we could do with the knows that that is not what I am suggesting, and she right powers and budget devolved to a local level. The will no doubt have seen over the summer that few have Government have asked for proposals, and in been as vocal as I have been in their public advocacy for Nottinghamshire at least—clearly, I cannot speak for HS2 and the eastern leg. The key thing for the region is other areas—we are extremely interested in that that, whatever HS2 looks like, it involves that key conversation. Wehave spoken with Ministers and officials. investment at our Toton site, unlocking opportunities We have a clear idea of what we want to achieve and we for jobs and growth in the north of the county, and want to be out there, leading the way. tying together our local transport network and connectivity Following all those conversations with local and national across the east midlands to boost our economy. There is stakeholders in Notts, we agree with the Government huge potential: I believe that the eastern leg in full that the best way to deliver devolution in areas such as would create enough jobs, investment and economic ours is through the mechanism of county deals. We opportunity up the length of the route to pay for itself want to bring forward deals for Nottinghamshire and and to be of huge benefit to the country. I am just Nottingham, using our existing legal framework for focusing on the key priorities for us from the east collaboration—our economic prosperity committee—to midlands perspective. Whatever the IRP looks like, manage a joined-up approach to delivery, working with those are things that must be in it to benefit our region. our districts and boroughs. In return, we are offering a Whatever anyone’s view on HS2 as a whole, given package of local public service reform, bringing both that the PM has committed to delivering it in some tiers together under the EPC to deliver more efficient shape or form, the key for our region is Toton, and the and effective local services. We have agreed to that surrounding plans and projects form a big part of the across all the Nottinghamshire local authorities; we IRP decision. Whatever the Government decide and have done much of the work and planning in the whatever form it ultimately takes, the Department for background already; and my chief executive and I will Transport and other Departments must work with us, camp on the lawn outside the Ministry of Housing, the region, Midlands Connect and other local stakeholders Communities and Local Government until we get the to include the Toton plans and make the most of that thing done. The Minister just needs to say the word and investment. set us up a pitch in an appropriate place. I know that decisions on the IRP are to be taken Although I am not party to all the local discussions, I soon. As the chair of the HS2 strategy board, I would hope that colleagues across the region will be able to put welcome a conversation with the Secretary of State for forward similar deals for Derbyshire, Leicestershire and 5WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 6WH

Lincolnshire in due course, giving us all access to the Lilian Greenwood: The hon. Gentleman is making a huge potential of those devolved powers and offering powerful argument for more powers and more funding us the opportunity to work together across the region for the region. I know that there is an appetite for on delivery. That could also give us the ability to people to have more control over those sorts of investments, work together on the oversight of these projects—the but this happens in a context of national policy. In his development corporation, the freeport, HS2 and others— own constituency, more than 10,000 families will lose and allow us to steer the ship for future sites and £20 a week when the universal credit cut kicks in next projects. I recognise from the Prime Minister’s speech year. What impact does he think that will have on the that he clearly sees devolution as a mechanism for local economy in his constituency,and what is he planning delivering the levelling-up agenda. We want to be at the to do about it? heart of that; I certainly want Nottinghamshire to lead the way, and to be among the early adopters of this Ben Bradley: I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. project. It is hugely important that we support people in my constituency and around the east midlands to meet As you can see, Sir David, the four projects as a their basic needs from day to day. Off the back of the package are linked and interdependent, and if delivered covid recovery, we need to ensure that we put people in together could be much more than the sum of their the best possible place. Vitally, we are helping people to parts. As a region, the east midlands does come together get by and to get back into work. We are helping people already, so we have strong foundations on which to to interact with our economy, to get out there and to build. Under the leadership of Sir John Peace, chairman overcome their fears. We are working with businesses to of the midlands engine, public and private sector partners reopen and grow.At the county council, we are absolutely from across the region have been working on HS2, the invested in supporting vulnerable people, as we have development corporation and our freeport ambitions. done successfully throughout the pandemic, and I pay That has led to a strong sense of trust and confidence tribute to the many thousands of staff who have been among senior stakeholders, and we know that we have working incredibly hard to do that. Regardless of national the good will and the momentum to do more. Currently, decisions, we will work hard at the local level to support we are working with Sir John on plans to capitalise on everyone across Mansfield and Nottinghamshire over that good will by strengthening our regional partnership. the coming months and years. We call that partnership the alchemy board, and I am The key point is that we need Government support confident that it can provide us with an effective east on some key decisions this autumn in order to back the midlands partnership umbrella, so that local devolution east midlands, which has consistently been bottom of efforts have a place to share and develop significant the tables for public and private sector investment, and opportunities on a regional level. There is work to do to which should therefore be top of the levelling-up agenda. make changes to bring that together, but we have the We have a package that already exists and that could building blocks in place, and I think it is an attractive boost our economy and improve the life chances of the proposition. local people whom the hon. Member for Nottingham I hope it is clear that on a regional level, we have South (Lilian Greenwood) mentioned. I therefore call some key projects and a vision for the future that can on the Minister and the Government to back the plans create wealth across the east midlands. Those four to make these four key decisions in favour of the east things are already under way and are coming together midlands this autumn. this autumn for decisions. With Government support, they can create tens of thousands of jobs and thousands Sir David Amess (in the Chair): Colleagues, if you of homes, and change the life chances of people in the want to make a speech, keep bobbing up and down as east midlands. If the Government deliver the powers for we once did. If you came here only to make an intervention, the devco in their planning legislation; if they back our that is fine, but you must stay until the end of the debate freeport bid and support us through the full business at 11 o’clock. There is no Scottish National party case to reach delivery stage; if they ensure that whatever contribution today.The Minister and the shadow Minister the bigger picture on HS2, Toton forms a big part of the will take about 10 minutes each. We have worked out IRP, and that our local connectivity and economic that if everyone speaks for four or five minutes, you will growth also form a big part of that plan; and if they all have a say. agree to get us on track for early devolution packages, in line with their own policy goals to be announced in 9.46 am the White Paper this autumn, we will be well placed to Margaret Beckett (Derby South) (Lab): I apologise level up the east midlands and to deliver on the for having been slightly late into the room. The security Government’s own promises. All of this is already under door worked all too effectively: it kept me out. way, and all of it fits with the Government’s own plans I am mindful of your remarks, Sir David, and I want and priorities, so we should get on with it. I hope the to leave enough time for everybody else. I have slightly Minister will be able to give us some positive soundings mixed feelings about taking part in the debate, because on that today. I agree with much of what the hon. Member for Mansfield We can add to that list a ton of other projects, (Ben Bradley) said, to a degree. For example, he talked including growth corridors, midlands engine rail, the about the freeport, which I think most of us support midlands rail hub, Spherical Tokamak for Energy and hope will be successful. However, I must admit that Production fusion energy, Space Park Leicester and I am a little sceptical. We have had freeports before, Infinity Park Derby. My colleagues will no doubt add without their bringing about a massive transformation. many more projects to that list, but it is an exciting time As he rightly identified, it will all depend on whether in the east midlands, and this autumn is a particularly the Government are enthusiastic and willing to come exciting time, with key things coming together. forward with investment. When looking at any of the 7WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 8WH

[Margaret Beckett] So often, what the business community complains about more than almost anything else is insufficient skills—well, statistics about the east midlands, one thing that is it is a lack of certainty, usually followed by a lack of crystal clear is how frequently we are at the bottom of skills, that it complains about most. I am therefore the heap for Government investment, particularly in mindful of the difficulties and the way in which the east transport. midlands needs Government investment and support in I want to pick up on something that the hon. Member order to prosper. for Mansfield said about prosperity and the wellbeing I will pick out—I suspect that the hon. Member for of families. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham Mid Derbyshire (Mrs Latham) will wish to do the South (Lilian Greenwood) identified the number of same—the project that is potentially available. One of people who are in financial difficulty and who will be the many other ways in which the east midlands has lost affected worse if the Chancellor follows through and out is in—I am not quite sure what to call it—this withdraws the universal credit uplift. I notice how often contest for Government Departments or agencies that Conservative Members talk about the best way out of are being dispersed from London or set up afresh. As poverty. Whenever they talk about people who are in you will know, Sir David, there is in the pipeline a new poverty or who are having difficulties—not necessarily headquarters for the future of Great British rail, and all those in dire poverty—they say that the way out of of us in Derby, across the parties and universally across poverty is through work. That is true, but only if the the business community and other communities, absolutely work is sufficiently well paid to enable people to survive, believe that the best possible place for that investment— to put food on the table and to support their families. apologies to anybody who has a competing interest—would Something like 76,000 people in the east midlands are in be Derby. zero-hours contract jobs. In Derby, there remains a tremendous concentration of rail companies and other companies associated with Ben Bradley: I actually agree with that. The projects the rail supply chain and so on, which we believe is the that I have talked about today represent a huge opportunity, greatest such concentration anywhere in the world. We because the joy of master planning and things such as believe that to be true, and as nobody has ever contradicted the development corporation and the freeport is that we us or found another example of such concentration, we as public stakeholders can interact with business and are fairly confident in that assertion. the market. We can lay out the kinds of jobs and sectors I share the hopes and aspirations of the hon. Member that we would like to see, and ensure that those jobs are for Mansfield for the east midlands and its future, and I better paid than those that already exist. Rather than passionately hope that some of the promises that the having logistics sheds on the side of the M1, we can get Government are making will indeed be delivered. However, jobs in clean tech and green energy and ensure that I share the doubts expressed by my hon. Friend the there are better opportunities for people in our communities. Member for Chesterfield, which I suspect will be expressed Margaret Beckett: I am certainly in favour of all by other Labour Members, about how much faith we those things and very much hope to see them happen. can place in the prospect of the Government really delivering on their promises. I very much hope that the However, my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield Minister will say enthusiastic things about such expensive (Mr Perkins) put his finger on a very real difficulty. I and comprehensive projects that I will be satisfied, and have been involved with the business community in a I look forward to hearing his speech. variety of ways for many years, and one thing I know above anything else is that what the business community 9.53 am values above everything is stability and certainty. My hon. Friend referred to the uncertainty that continues Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) (Con): It is a to hang around the HS2 project. Whatever the degree of pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. enthusiasm for it, I think most of us here today support I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this it and feel that, if it is going to happen, we certainly do debate. It is great to be both back in the Chamber and not want the east midlands to be left out, or the eastern able to speak about the east midlands, which is a region leg not to be continued, or the Toton project to fall that we do not speak of enough in this place. I look through, because of all the potential opportunities that forward to the Minister getting a clear message from all would be created by those developments. I therefore of us here about how important a focus on the east accept the value of what the hon. Member for Mansfield midlands will be in the coming months and years. says could happen; it is just that, as I have already said, I Although those of us here today will probably not have a degree of scepticism about whether, under this agree on absolutely everything—I am sorry to say to the Government, it actually will happen. It is delivery that right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) matters, as he himself said in his closing remarks. that in a moment I may just pick up on one or two I am very conscious of the need to leave enough time points she made—in general, the combined and aggregate for the many colleagues who are here to contribute; view of the people in this room, and indeed in the east indeed, I am pleased to see how many are here to midlands, is that we of course want to see our area participate in this debate. I am extremely fortunate, in doing better, and we also want Government support for that some of the industrial jewels of the east midlands it in the right places and having the right, effective are not only in my city of Derby but in my constituency— outcomes. Overall, that will help us all across the east Rolls-Royce and Alstom, to name but two, with Toyota midlands, from the very north, where I am, to the very just outside the city.Weare blessed in having world-beating south, where some of my colleagues in this debate are. manufacturing success and world-beating opportunity. Wehave much to celebrate. It is important to understand Nevertheless, like the rest of the east midlands, we are the achievements that we have made, or are in the bedevilled by insufficient investment, training and skills. process of making, to recognise the importance of 9WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 10WH where we need to go forward. I was pleased to see the in Chesterfield 20 years ago, we did not used to be sure freeport, which I am sure colleagues will talk about in a of. If we do that, combined with the infrastructure moment. It will be transformational for the region, improvements that I am sure will be talked about for the especially for particular parts of it, but even those of us next hour and have already been articulated, we will who are a little further away from it are glad that it has have a great case to make for our region in the coming come. decades. There are also the things that my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) talked about—the 9.58 am longer-term and more strategic issues that we need to tackle in the east midlands. They are also positive. I Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): It is a look forward to working with him and other colleagues pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. on those in the years ahead. I congratulate the hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) on securing this debate. I am pleased to see Everyone in the next hour will make the case for that so many colleagues wish to take part. My hon. individual areas, I am sure, and I want to make the case Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris) for my area. We have already achieved good progress on was disappointed not to be available this morning, broadband, which is hugely important for rural areas in because he is serving on a Bill Committee. particular, in constituencies such as mine on the edge of the Peak, in places such as Barlow and Spinkhill. Over the past 18 months, my constituents—all our constituents—have faced the most incredible challenges We have successfully convinced the Government to as a result of the pandemic. Far too many people have spend a lot of money in Staveley and in Clay Cross lost their lives, or lost loved ones, and many people have through the town deals. We are one of only a handful of lost incomes, jobs and businesses. No one knew that we places to get two town deals in close proximity, and we would face a pandemic, but some of the weaknesses in are very grateful for that. It is now the responsibility of our economy, which covid has only made deeper, were the local councils, which we are working well with, to known. I am afraid that the Government have consistently ensure that the money is delivered effectively into projects failed to address those and, more than that, have wilfully that change our area for the long term. made them worse. They have failed to take the action Only a few months ago, we had the very good news that we all know is necessary to ensure that the east that we were going to get a new free school in our area midlands can grow strongly in the future. on the old Avenue regeneration site. That is another For many people in my constituency and our region, example of where, after a decade of aspirations but making ends meet, keeping a roof over their head and being unable to deliver them, we are now plugging the putting food on the table is a constant worry. That is not gaps in funding and finding ways to deliver the things news; for far too many constituents, economic insecurity we need for local communities. has become the norm. As my right hon. Friend the We have great opportunities, some of which I share Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) highlighted, with the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins). I 76,000 workers are on zero-hour contracts. If they get look forward to, and will continue to support, opportunities sick, they do not get paid. If they challenge their such as the long-awaited Staveley bypass, which is now employer, they face losing their job. They cannot plan moving to the next level, which is positive; the work on for the future, and they cannot imagine how they could the A61, which is being led by Derbyshire County ever own their own home. Council, to try to secure long-term improvements there; Even those with regular employment feel uncertain the possibility of reopening rail along the Barrow Hill about the future. That insecurity has taken its toll. Over line; regeneration for towns such as Dronfield, Killamarsh the last decade, wages in the east midlands have fallen and Eckington in my patch; and the actual physicality by more than £10 per week in real terms. Homelessness of what the integrated rail plan—when we see it—does has increased by 55% since 2010. In 2019-20, before the for my constituency. Everyone, whatever their view of pandemic hit, there were 101,534 food bank referrals in High Speed 2 or other aspects of train policy, wants to our region. see an outcome to the integrated rail plan and what it We can do better and be better—we all want that—but means for individual constituencies. it requires Government action: not words about addressing In the couple of seconds I have left, I want to say one regional imbalance, not promises about new investment, thing. Infrastructure is vital to our area, just as it is to but action. We need promises to be kept and we need every other area around the country.However,infrastructure investment to be delivered. is not everything. That does not mean that the primary I want to say more about the action needed, but first I message from this debate to the Government and will talk about what is not needed: next month’s proposed the Minister should not be that we want more cut to universal credit. More than 9,500 households in infrastructure—we want the ability to build a more my constituency face losing more than £1,000 a year as successful east midlands over the long term—but there a result of the Government’s plan to make the biggest are many other elements of Government policy where ever overnight cut to social security. Not only will it be the state can help that we also need to consider. devastating for the families who need that £20 per week; We need to ensure that we are levelling up across it will be very bad news for our local economy—the education. One of the things that I completely agree local shops and businesses where they spend that money. with the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Taking £20 a week away from almost 40,000 families in Greenwood) about is the need to level up on skills. We Nottingham is taking millions of pounds away from also need to level up on aspiration, opportunities and Nottingham businesses and struggling high streets. It ensuring that people in our areas know that they can comes in the middle of a jobs crisis and threatens our achieve things in a way that, when I came out of school economic recovery. 11WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 12WH

[Lilian Greenwood] Despite the east midlands once being one of the most prosperous areas in the UK thanks to its thriving That is not just an issue in Nottingham; across the manufacturing base, decades of underinvestment has east midlands region, 389,680 families will be hit by the curtailed productivity, stifled economic growth and held cut to universal credit. A quick bit of maths: that is back social mobility.That, coupled with the Leicestershire £400 million a year out of the east midlands economy. County Council area receiving the least central Government As has been highlighted, 40% of those low-income funding, stifles our development. But that would be to families in receipt of universal credit are working families. look to our past, and this debate is about the future. Cutting the incomes of those who are unemployed or Recently, the region has seen a resurgence of its on low pay is shocking. Cutting their spending power is economic potential, which accounted for 5.9% of UK economic madness. I hope MPs on all sides will stand GDP in 2019, thanks to growth in a number of new and up to the Government and do the right thing for their innovative sectors, such as life sciences and hydrogen constituents and the east midlands. There will be an technology.The latter is of particular national importance, opportunity to do that tomorrow, I believe. given the push towards green technology. Government do not just need to avoid doing the Alongside the groundbreaking research from our wrong things; they need to start doing the right things. fantastic universities such as Loughborough University, The east midlands has consistently lost out on Government companies such as Intelligent Energy, which is looking investment, which has had a huge impact on our success. to build a new state-of-the-art gigafactory in the region GDP growth in the east midlands over 20 years has as a centre of hydrogen fuel cell manufacturing in the been below the UK average. Productivity has remained UK, are leading the way in this area. Such a factory below the UK average over the same period; indeed, it would not only create hundreds of local jobs but would has been in relative decline. Doing something to turn help establish the UK and the east midlands as a world that around and make our region more productive is leader in hydrogen fuel cell technology. essential, yet the east midlands receives the lowest public The Energy Research Accelerator is also bringing expenditure on economic affairs, on services per head, together local research-intensive organisations and a and on transport in total and per head. research community of nearly 1,500 researchers to Transport spend in our region declined to just 58% of undertake innovative research, develop the next generation the UK average in 2019-20. If it was funded at the UK of energy leaders and demonstrate low-carbon technologies average, we would have £1 billion per year to invest in that will help shape the future of the UK’s energy improving transport networks. That really matters, because landscape, but if we are to harness the true potential of it is about investing in the future and making us a more those sectors, we must invest further in skills, infrastructure productive region. No single issue is more important in and research and development. The Government have transport investment than building the HS2 eastern leg already committed to their levelling-up agenda by directing in full, as the Government have repeatedly promised. significant investment towards the region and stimulating That will benefit millions of people in our communities— business growth, following an incredibly challenging even those who never set foot on a high-speed train. It year for businesses. will create thousands of apprenticeships for young people The freeport at East Midlands airport will not only and skilled jobs for talented employees, and will regenerate act as a customs hub, boosting international trade, but our area, particularly around Toton. It will act as the will create a highly skilled ecosystem, becoming a magnet catalyst for private sector investment to turn our great for inward investment and business expansion and acting ambitions for our regions into a reality. as a springboard for opportunity throughout the region, Of course, there are transport benefits, too. It is creating tens of thousands of new skilled jobs. The absolutely essential that we get more people and freight gravitational pull of the freeport will bring jobs and travelling on our railways if we are to hit our zero growth from across the world to the only freeport based carbon target. It is essential that we improve our connectivity at an airport. That is great news for the east midlands. east to west—east midlands to west midlands—and to We already have some excellent forward-looking the north: to Sheffield, Chesterfield Leeds and further businesses in the Loughborough constituency, such as north still. We must give people a real alternative to Morningside Pharmaceuticals, ERGO, Jayplas and JRE travelling by car. Precision Engineering. Each one is a global player, The Government have repeatedly promised investment groundbreaking and integral to the future of our region in the east midlands transport networks and have repeatedly and our country. That is not to mention the life science broken those promises. I feel like a broken record on cluster based at Charnwood Campus—the first life this issue,but I have been campaigning for the electrification science opportunity zone in the country, with superb of the midland main line for more than a decade. It was businesses already based there and capacity for more; paused, then delayed, then scrapped, in direct contravention companies are looking to come to the region, with labs of promises made to my and all hon. Members’constituents and offices ready to go. in 2015, 2017 and 2019. Now I fear that exactly the The £16.9 million town deal funding for Loughborough same thing will happen with HS2. Well, we cannot will also ensure that local residents have the skills stand for that to happen, and I hope the Minister will needed to support local businesses. It will fund projects take the message back to the Government that the east such as the Loughborough College digital skills hub, midlands deserves better than to be left at the bottom of and the already thriving careers and enterprise hub. the pile. He must listen, and the Government must With match funding, those town deal projects are worth change their view. more than £40 million. 10.6 am Loughborough College in itself is a driving force for Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con): It is a pleasure to training and skills, adapted and shaped by the jobs market serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. in which it thrives. Last week, we held a jobs market in 13WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 14WH the centre of Loughborough that offered literally hundreds midlands who are not in Nottingham, Derby or Leicester, of jobs. Thorn Baker, for example, had 75 jobs available. and 36 of them are Tories. This Government absolutely The place is really beginning to thrive. That is in addition take the east midlands for granted, and why should they to the huge £7.8 million investment in Loughborough not when right across the east midlands they see Tory from the getting building fund, which not only helped MPs elected while they fail to invest in our region? Of to play a role in creating a global sports hub in the town course they will think the voters of the east midlands but has gone towards highways infrastructure to improve will comfortably vote for them. accessibility to Loughborough and Shepshed at junction 23 My party has a big responsibility to face our electoral of the M1. failure over the last 11 years. I look across the hall to The east midlands is transforming and creating an lots of colleagues whose constituencies were Labour for identity for itself as a leader in innovation and cutting-edge many years. They are in those seats now, and the voters technology. It is time to capitalise on not only our of the east midlands and my party need to consider geography but our skills. Inward investors are looking if we are going to get investment in the east midlands, for a place where their business can succeed, for the it needs to be a more competitive area because this skilled workforce needed to drive their business forward, Government believe that they can take it for granted. and for a great place to live, in which case the future is The hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee bright for the whole of the east midlands, but it shines Rowley) referred to the Staveley bypass. That is something like an Olympic gold medal here in Loughborough. that he and I are very committed to. I did a recent 10.10 am survey and know that there is huge support in my constituency for that bypass; it is something that has Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): I congratulate been spoken about over many years. Derbyshire county the hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) for securing council needs to speed up the process of delivering the the debate because it is an incredibly important one. I bypass, as many of the projects that were announced at enjoyed the case he made for the need for investment the same time are now much further ahead. I would like and focusing that on Toton. However, there was an the Minister to know that there is a real cross-party elephant in the room during his speech and that is HS2. commitment to going ahead with the Staveley bypass, I do not believe that the plans he outlined are credible and I hope that we will soon have good news about it. without HS2. He seemed to be making the case that the infrastructure can happen with or without HS2, and I The east midlands region is crackling with innovation simply do not buy it. HS2 is fundamental to that and with a desire to get on and deliver, but, as the hon. investment in our region and to the interconnectivity Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) said, it is being that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham held back by a failure of investment in our region. We South (Lilian Greenwood) spoke about. really need to see that turned around now. I came into this place in 2010 and I have been through four elections in which the Conservative party 10.15 am has spoken about their commitment to HS2 and the Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): It is a pleasure to midland main line infrastructure and electrification. serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, and I Throughout those four elections, the consistency of the congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield Government’s message on investment in the east midlands (Ben Bradley) on securing this debate. has been matched only by the consistency of their I think those of us here in this room are all incredibly failure to deliver that spending. I have been an MP for lucky because we represent a vibrant, dynamic and 11 years and in every term of those four Tory Governments, creative region. As other Members have said, we are the we have had big promises, let-downs, dither and delay. heart of the UK’s logistics and manufacturing industries; When the Minister gets to his feet, he has an opportunity the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret to tell us finally that the promises made in 2010, 2015, Beckett) talked about the industrial jaws of the United 2017 and three months after the 2019 election that the Kingdom. I was fortunate to be able to visit JCB in the eastern leg of HS2 would be delivered is not—as the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for South Government are constantly briefing—about to be pulled Derbyshire (Mrs Wheeler), and see the amazing innovation from under our feet, but that there is actually that that has been taking place at its Foston plant, where it commitment. When people look back on this era of has invented the world’sfirst hydrogen-fuelled combustion politics, they will find it incredible that for 11 years a engine. Government had its biggest infrastructure project yet We are leaders in food and drink; we have some looked so unenthusiastic about it. I cannot think of any fantastic companies in my constituency of Rushcliffe— other Government policy in history that has been supported perhaps too fantastic, as I do not think they did wonders more by the Opposition than the Government themselves. for my figure over lockdown. We have fantastic stilton That is the reality with HS2. producers at Cropwell Bishop and Colston Bassett that, It is true that our region is taken for granted and contrary to counter claims made by my hon. Friend the ignored. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns), produce South referred to the difference in transport spending the best stilton in the world—whatever she may say. We between the east and west midlands. In the east midlands, also have wonderful wine producers such as the average transport spending per head is £287.32. Just wine estate and Eglantine vineyard; we have a thriving across in the west midlands, it is £489.70 per head. farming sector across the region; and we are leaders in Almost twice as much is spent on transport in the west so many different types of green technology. I have midlands as in the east midlands. Why is that? mentioned hydrogen at JCB, but we also have the GeoPura The reality is that I am a very unusual Member of headquarters in my constituency, whose hydrogen Parliament. I am a Labour MP in the east midlands generators are powering everything from festivals to who is not from a city. There are 37 MPs in the east film sets. We are leaders in biodiversity restoration; we 15WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 16WH

[Ruth Edwards] We have some great tangible opportunities right now in the east midlands to reverse that. The one I have been have BeadaMoss in East Leake, Rushcliffe, micro- most closely involved in is the east midlands freeport, propagating sphagnum moss to be used to restore peatlands which would cover three sites: one in Leicestershire, one and to create new growing mediums that will replace in Derbyshire and one in Nottinghamshire in my peat in several years. The statistics back up what I am constituency of Rushcliffe, based at the Ratcliffe-on-Soar saying. We have fantastic innovators across the region; power station site, which is being decommissioned in a 90% of manufacturers have innovated in the last two few years’ time. The east midlands freeport would create years; 96% plan to do so again in the next two years. more than 58,000 jobs and would see investment in We do have our problems, and they have been set out skills, research and development. It would see Ratcliffe- very clearly by Members on both sides of the room on-Soar transformed into a centre for new energy today. Our productivity is below the national average; technologies and a zero carbon academy, creating those we have a polarised workforce with a lot of people in high-skilled jobs and fantastic careers that we have been very highly skilled jobs—based around our universities discussing this morning. It will also enhance and build and our tech companies—but we also have many people on existing partnerships between academia and business in much lower paid jobs. The average income in the east across the region, which we need to capitalise on. It will midlands is £70 a week below the national level. We also be the best connected freeport in the country: it will suffer from low public sector investment; we have the connect East Midlands airport to global markets and, lowest levels of public expenditure and transport spending in doing so, will connect the companies at the heart of per head. our manufacturing and logistics industries to it too. It will also connect the east midlands via road and rail to We have also suffered, perhaps, from a lower profile the wider network of freeports across the country and, than other areas of the country. The west midlands, for in that way, offer us a national as well as a regional example, has one focal point provided by the city of opportunity. Birmingham and its Mayor. Its share of funding has reached parity with the average amongst English regions The second opportunity is HS2. I appreciate that it is in the last few years; we in the east midlands still have not the responsibility of the Minister’s Department, but only 75%. We hear a lot about levelling up and we see a I hope he takes away the message of frustration from lot of Government Ministers going to Teesside and the colleagues on both sides of the House at the length of west midlands; we see their Departments following time it is taking to get a decision about the eastern leg. them there. If levelling up is going to spread opportunity We have seen a vaccine created and rolled out across the over the whole country then it is going to have to United Kingdom in less time than it has taken to make involve more places than just Teesside and the west a decision about the form in which HS2 is going to midlands—however wonderful they may be. One of the come to the east midlands, if it comes at all. I hope the places that really needs that focus and support from rumours that it is going to be axed are not true. Government is the east midlands. HS2 has great potential. It would add £28 billion to the region’s economy every year. It would increase Mr Perkins: I totally agree with what the hon. Lady is east-west—a well as north-south—connectivity, which saying. Is not the point I just made the reality? Areas is vital. Today, we talked about how connectivity and such as the west midlands and the north-east are politically trains are important, but it is about more than trains. It competitive. Here, the Tory party is able to take for is about massive redevelopment at Toton. It is about granted that it is going to get Tory MPs elected and that improving local transport connectivity across the region. is why we have failed to get the investments of some of It would send a clear signal from Government that we those other regions. Is not electing more Labour MPs are investing in the east midlands, that the east midlands the answer? is not the poor cousin of the west midlands, that it will not be left behind and that we are committed to making Ruth Edwards: No, I do not agree with that. We are in sure that the east midlands shares in the levelling-up a debate today that has been called by a Conservative agenda. I hope the Minister can give us some assurance Member and is attended by lots more Conservative that that will be the case. I certainly hope that he will than Labour Members, so I do not agree with the hon. take the message back from the debate to his colleagues Gentleman. in the Department for Transport and I also hope that we can hear something about his support for the east midlands freeport, which is something that he knows Mr Perkins: We haven’t got many—that is the point. Members on both sides have been working hard to support. Wehave an excellent bid now—one that capitalises Ruth Edwards: Maybe that says something about how on our net zero potential, our connectivity and creating voters in the east midlands feel the hon. Gentleman’s highly skilled jobs and training across the region, which party has taken them for granted. As a result, they have is much needed. returned Conservative colleagues, who are here today fighting for more investment in the east midlands. 10.24 am If everybody in every community having a fair chance at life is what levelling up is about, if it is about people Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab): It is a being able to benefit from strong public services such as pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I a great education and having the opportunity for a great thank the hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) career, wherever they live in the country, we have to for securing the debate. focus on areas such as the east midlands that have, As my right hon. and hon. Friends have already historically, been underfunded and have not had the detailed, a decade of cuts has devastated our communities Government focus that they should. and people’s lives. People have been pushed into poverty, 17WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 18WH there is a homelessness epidemic, bus routes have closed share? Can the Minister tell us whether the east midlands and schools are falling apart. As my hon. Friend the will get at least the £8 billion that the west midlands Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) received with the Conservative Mayor? said earlier, in 2019, the east midlands had the lowest Finally, I would like to stress the importance of public spend on economic development and transport devolving and investing in a way that is truly transparent, and the third lowest on public services. democratic and empowering for our local communities, On top of more than 10 years of austerity, the because devolution should not mean handing power Government’s failure to protect lives and livelihoods and money from one man in Whitehall to one man in a during covid has caused further economic misery and region. Communities need a real say in how this money injustice to our region. Businesses have folded and is spent, so that they can be part of building the kind of people have lost their jobs. Retail and hospitality sectors economy that works for them and creating stable, well-paid dominated by low-paid workers —often women—have jobs in the here and now, investing in industries that will been particularly hit hard. Many are trying to get by on protect the environment, and ultimately giving their furlough pay that is less than the minimum wage, or children the future that we all deserve. even without any financial help at all. In Nottingham East alone, more than 14,000 families are set to lose 10.30 am £1,000 a year when the universal credit cut comes into Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con): It is a pleasure to place. Most shameful of all is that the majority of serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, and I thank people in poverty are in working families. my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) Coming out of the pandemic, we need well-paid, for securing the debate. I am pleased to be here today as secure jobs that help produce the kind of society that we a proud east midlands MP to discuss the future economy want to live in. It is not enough just to develop our of our region. With the Prime Minister’s levelling-up economy; we need to decarbonise it as well. There are agenda, we will ensure that long-forgotten communities no jobs on a dead planet and we must invest with the across the east midlands finally get the investment they future in mind, not just the present. deserve. Booming manufacturing once dominated Nottingham’s Recent research by the Government has shown that economy and our city was renowned as the centre of there is a growing gap between the east and west midlands, textiles, but from the 1980s manufacturing declined. which is likely to widen further over the next decade as a For my grandparents’ generation, half of Nottingham result of the delivery of phase 1 of HS2 and associated jobs were in manufacturing, compared to just 4% in investment. We simply cannot allow the east midlands 2021. There is a huge potential for a new generation of to be left behind. Does the Minister agree that a simple green manufacturing jobs in and around our city and way of tackling the spending imbalance for the east region; good-quality, well-paid jobs in sectors such as midlands economy is to deliver HS2 in full, including recycling and reuse. Rather than exporting our recycling Toton, as well as Chesterfield? Given his earlier comments, content abroad, where much of it ends up dumped in I know that the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) the ocean, when will the Government bring these jobs will agree. to Nottingham and Nottinghamshire? There have, however, been many recent funding commitments from the Government for my constituency Will the Government put the money where their of Broxtowe, including £21.1 million from the towns mouth is when it comes to tackling climate change and fund deal for the town of Stapleford, as well as an levelling up? Can the Minister provide a figure on opportunity to bid for £20 million for the town of Government investment in green economic development Kimberley as part of the levelling-up fund. Both in the east midlands over the last five years? Can he commitments will be hugely welcome in my constituency provide details of conversations he has had with and will have a large impact on the lives of many of my representatives of renewable and green industries about constituents. The knock-on effect of that investment economic investment in the east midlands? Will he will be to create new businesses,jobs and other opportunities agree to meet me and representatives from local green for my constituents for years to come. It will also ensure industries to discuss capital investment in our region that the local economy will not just survive after covid, and opportunities for support from the Government? but will thrive. With the scale of the climate and ecological emergency, Transport investment is a key driver of productivity that demands nothing less than post-war scale investments and economic growth. The fact that the east midlands and economic transformation—a green deal. All of us, has consistently delivered GDP growth close to the UK regardless of party politics, would be letting down those average from very low levels of transport investment is we represent to demand anything less today. testament to the commitment and ingenuity of the The Local Government Association website provides thousands of small to medium-sized enterprises that a list of devolution deals over the last decade. As the are the backbone of the region’s economy. Terminating hon. Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) mentioned, HS2 at East Midlands Parkway, or somewhere that is they include deals for Cornwall, Tees Valley, the west not Toton, will not achieve the transformational benefits midlands, London, south Yorkshire—the east midlands for the east midlands that the full eastern leg will is nowhere to be seen. For how long can our region be deliver. Toton is also ideally located to serve the wider overlooked when it comes to Government investments? Nottingham area, particularly the major employment We saw that the Chancellor’s constituency—among the opportunities to the west of the city centre. fifth most prosperous in the country—has benefited It is my belief that connectivity is key to truly levelling from levelling-up money. In constituencies such as up the east midlands. That does not just mean transport; Nottingham East, more than one third of children are it also means digital connectivity. The east midlands living in poverty. When are we going to get our fair region has some of the worst interconnectivity within 19WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 20WH

[Darren Henry] We have some excellent rail links already, but we would like to see more. We have the east coast main line the whole of the UK. I recently heard about an individual and potential for more, such as the Robin Hood line, taking business calls from his shed, as that was where he which has been mentioned. I have constituents in Retford got the best reception. We simply cannot expect growth who are very interested in being joined up to that. Of and prosperity within the region when individuals do course, the A1 runs through there as well, and we would not have the digital connectivity they deserve.In November, like to see some improvements to the exits. The east the midlands engine all-party parliamentary group, which midlands freeport brings some great opportunities for I co-chair, will be holding a meeting solely on broadband East Midlands airport, and we have the benefit of and connectivity within the region. I encourage all having Doncaster Sheffield airport just over the border. Members present to attend, if available. I also ask the The freeport is a really great benefit for local manufacturing Minister to outline plans to further address the disparity and logistics companies, and I am a big supporter of it. in digital infrastructure within the midlands. I want to see it succeed. The future of the east midlands economy looks bright, I fully support the efforts of my colleagues to make as long as the necessary investment and infrastructure the case for HS2 going through Toton. It would be a big that has been promised is delivered in full. It would be a boost for the region as well as Nottinghamshire. So misstep not to deliver HS2’s east midlands hub at many positive things are going on in our region, and Toton. I am also keen to see expansion into green colleagues have mentioned devolution. A strong east industries. The east midlands already has some fantastic midlands can help to supercharge our local economy local businesses, developing groundbreaking technology and give us all a lift. and ways of making society greener. In my capacity as If my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and co-chair of the midlands engine all-party parliamentary Melton (Alicia Kearns) were present today, I know that group, alongside my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe she would mention her campaign to have the Department (Ruth Edwards), I recently visited the businesses in her for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs open an office constituency that she mentioned earlier, GeoPura and in Melton Mowbray. Unfortunately, she could not be BeadaMoss. Both are fantastic green businesses that are here, but I fully support her in that and wish her luck. leading the way within the industry. I will finish my remarks, as I know we are short of I would like to see the east midlands become the focal time. Once again, I thank my hon. Friend the Member point for green energy and development in the UK. The for Mansfield for highlighting this issue. We have a Government have already gone some way towards doing great region in the east midlands. Let us make the most that, by setting a clear ambition to support 2 million of it, and let us supercharge our economy and go green jobs by 2030 through the green jobs taskforce. In forward together. order to ensure that the east midlands prospers post covid, the Government must break the long-term cycle 10.38 am of under-investment and provide a long-term commitment Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab): It is a to invest in the east midlands economy. pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir David, and I thank I want to finish my remarks by making it clear that, you for the opportunity to reply to the debate on behalf in order for the Government to fully deliver on their of the Opposition. I congratulate the hon. Member for promise to level up the east midlands, we must deliver Mansfield (Ben Bradley) on securing the debate. I agree the eastern leg of HS2, and it has to go through Toton. with him that the Government need to come down on the side of investment and innovation in the region. 10.35 am I also thank the other speakers, who made important contributions. My right hon. Friend the Member for Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con): It is a pleasure Derby South (Margaret Beckett) gave us an important to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I thank reality check on the Government’s actions and made my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) the vital point that, in order for the economy to flourish, for securing this incredibly important debate on our work needs to be properly paid. We need stability and beloved east midlands. skills, without which businesses and the economy cannot My constituency of Bassetlaw, which is in the very thrive. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham north of the region, has had many connections, such as South (Lilian Greenwood) made an important point with Yorkshire. There has been debate over the years about the cut to universal credit, which is taking money about whether we should have joined the Sheffield city out of local economies. She also exposed the lack of region and so on, and perhaps we have taken our eye off transport investment in the region over a long period of the ball at times. I want to see Bassetlaw being a key time. player in the east midlands, which it can be, and making My hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield full use of the economic benefits. (Mr Perkins) talked about the importance of HS2 and On that subject, I would like to talk about the STEP focused on the inequality of transport spending in the project in Bassetlaw, which we are very keen on. It region—not just on rail, but on things such as the would be a major boost to the area. In the last couple of Staveley bypass. Road transport is important as well. days we have seen the old West Burton A coal-fired My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East power plant fired up again. That shows the importance (Nadia Whittome) talked about the impact of Government of having flexible and varied supplies of energy, but we policy and cuts, the vital importance for the future of see a real opportunity to look at the next generation of green jobs, and transparent devolution deals. energy production and green energy—for example, with We have heard lots of good words about the future of fusion, as my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough the east midlands economy. The east midlands does not (Jane Hunt) mentioned. operate as a single entity, with a regional centre, like my 21WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 22WH own in Greater Manchester, which is why so many It is clear that East Midlands airport is key for jobs Members from different parties have spoken about how in the region and future economic ambitions but, like vital transport links are, which I will return to shortly. It other regional airports, it has suffered through the is instructive to compare the east midlands with other lack of an adequate sectoral support package from the regions. Compared with the rest of the country, east Government. The Labour party has advocated a sectoral midlands GVA growth figures are lower and there are deal for aviation that protects jobs and the wider supply lower levels of investment, especially Government chain, safeguards the environment, and ensures that investment. Productivity is lower, more people than companies benefitting from the aviation sector rebase average are in insecure work, a higher number on zero-hours their tax affairs in the UK. If regional airports such as contracts and median gross pay is lower.Of the 446,000 key East Midlands airport are not given adequate help workers across the east midlands, 40% are paid less than through the challenges of covid, the local economies £10 an hour. There is work to do to fulfil the great that depend on them will be undermined. potential of the region. We have heard a number of times that a key priority People in the east midlands are significantly more for the region should be improving connectivity. The likely to be employed in manufacturing than in the rest eastern leg of HS2 is vital for economic growth in the of the UK. That is a distinctive, important and good east midlands. The potential indefinite postponement feature of the region, although a number of those jobs would be a massive blow to the economies of the cities are in lower-value manufacturing, which is more susceptible and counties of the region. I look forward to assurances to economic shocks. With traditional manufacturing in from the Minister that the leg will go ahead as promised, decline, it is important to consider alternative options as requested by many Members this morning. If this is for the future. We have heard from several Members another broken promise from the Government, it will about good work already underway, seeking to boost be a betrayal of the communities in the east midlands. jobs and prosperity in the east midlands, and release the potential of the region that we have heard about so Mr Perkins: My hon. Friend is right about the uniformity often. of view that the east midlands has had a poor deal from this Government. We expect, during such debates, for The importance of East Midlands airport, along Labour MPs to be critical of the Government; that is with the rail freight terminal, is key. A number of the role of the Opposition. However, were we to put Members talked about that and the work of the East together a Facebook video of the criticism of the Midlands Development Corporation in aiming to link Government in the debate, it would include excellent the HS2 station at Toton with the airport. We also speeches from the hon. Members for Loughborough heard about the development at the Ratcliffe-on-Soar (Jane Hunt), for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) and for power station site, which is another important growth Broxtowe (Darren Henry) about the east midlands being opportunity for the region. There is good partnership left behind under a Conservative Government. Those, work going on, driven by groups such as the midlands too, would be compelling pieces of evidence. engine partnership and Midlands Connect. We also heard about the plans for the east midlands freeport. Jeff Smith: My hon. Friend makes an important Many might question the overall strategy of freeports point. I hope that the Minister is listening to his own creating growth across the country, but it is undoubtedly side, not just to Labour. We have been making this case a good opportunity with potential for the east midlands for a long time, but it has been made strongly, as my region. hon. Friend says, on both sides of the Chamber. We have not focused so much today on the hard work There is a strong view that the biggest single thing carried out by local authorities, which have been at the that the Government could do for the east midlands frontline fighting the covid pandemic, and will now play economy would be to improve transport and connectivity, a crucial role in their communities’ recovery. They need including the full electrification of the midland main to be funded properly, so that they can play their full line—a continuation through Leicester up to Sheffield. role as place-makers, driving growth for the region. Apart from the environmental benefits, that would reduce Having imposed £15 billion cuts on local authorities journey times north and south. There is the Robin over the past 10 years, unfortunately the Government Hood line and the restoration of direct trains from recently broke their promise to compensate local authorities Leicester to Coventry: the only significant cities anywhere fully for their costs in tackling covid-19, leaving some of in the UK that do not have a direct rail connection. A them with very big funding gaps and putting local Government commitment to those kinds of transport services at risk. investment would be real evidence of levelling up for the The piecemeal funding pots that we have heard about, east midlands, which has, as we have heard a number of such as the levelling-up fund, which pit regions and times, the lowest transport investment in the UK. nations against each other for vital funding, do not The final issue that I will mention, though certainly make up for a decade of cuts to local communities. We not the least of them, is the emergence of new green need support for people who live in the region, as we industries, which has, again, been mentioned by those heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham on both sides of the Chamber. Labour believes that it East. The universal credit change will hit almost should be a priority of the Government to bring forward 390,000 families in the east midlands, pushing many a green new deal and an ambitious package. We are into hardship. Cutting the budgets of those families proposing £30 billion of capital investment to support who need it most is not only wrong, but bad economics. the creation of up to 400,000 new low-carbon jobs. That £1,000 a year is money that could be spent on There is engineering and manufacturing expertise in the local high streets in the east midlands. Instead, it will east midlands that should be well placed to make the be taken out of the economy just as we are trying most of those new opportunities, and the east midlands to recover. should get its share of the jobs of the future. 23WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 24WH

[Jeff Smith] ambitious investment programme,including the £4.8 billion levelling-up fund that was announced at the last spending Labour wants to see the east midlands thrive, along review. That will be available to all parts of the country with our regions up and down the country. We need to and will help improve everyday life. It will include address regional imbalance. The UK economy was already regenerating town centres and high streets, improving highly regionally imbalanced—perhaps the most regionally connectivity—we heard about that this morning—and imbalanced major economy in Europe—well before investing in cultural and heritage aspects. Those are covid hit. The pandemic restrictions have made existing exactly the kind of projects that my hon. Friend the inequalities worse. The uneven impact of lockdown on Member for Mansfield said are so urgently needed in different sectors means that some areas have been much the region. more affected than others, and the Government’sill-defined levelling-up concept needs to address those inequalities. Lilian Greenwood: I was listening carefully to what It must mean good-quality, secure work and job creation the Minister said about levelling up. He has heard how that helps us meet our climate ambitions. It has to mean the east midlands receives lower than average Government a fair social security system for anyone who cannot investment in a whole range of areas, including transport. work, whether due to economic shocks or illness. Is it his Government’s intention to address that shortfall? Future economic success must mean the Government When he talks about the levelling-up fund being available giving local areas the investment that they need to to the whole country, does he not envisage priority recover from the covid pandemic and rebuild strongly, being given to an area such as the east midlands, which with opportunities on everybody’s doorstep. We cannot historically has missed out, to level us up? Is that his afford any more broken promises from this Government. intention? That is our challenge to the Minister. Luke Hall: We have been clear about the areas of the Sir David Amess (in the Chair): The Minister will now country that are in the highest categories of need. The respond to the debate, but please leave a couple of levelling-up fund is based on the fund’s priority themes minutes for Mr Bradley to close proceedings. of economic recovery, transport connectivity and regeneration. We have recognised that need in three 10.48 am districts in Nottinghamshire: Bassetlaw, Mansfield and The Minister for Regional Growth and Local Government Newark and Sherwood, as well as the city of Nottingham, (Luke Hall): Thank you, Sir David. It is a pleasure to which has been identified as a category 1 priority. In serve under your chairmanship, and indeed to be back Derbyshire, Derby and the districts of Chesterfield, in Westminster Hall. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Derbyshire Dales, Erewash and High Peak have been Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) on securing this identified as category 1, as has the city of Leicester. importantdebate,andthankallrighthon.andhon.Members Those bids are being assessed and an announcement for their contributions. The thing that has been shared will be made later this year. universally is a passion for securing the best possible Nadia Whittome: Will the Minister publish the metric future for the region, and securing investment and the by which those calculations are made? I do not understand maximum support possible for everybody’s constituents. why the Chancellor’s constituency, which is among the That goal is absolutely shared by the Government. top five most prosperous in the country,has been considered I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for a priority for levelling up, but not constituencies such as Mansfield on all the progress that he has made in his ours, where the Minister has heard that over a third of role as the leader of Nottinghamshire County Council. children live in poverty. We all recognise that such strong local leadership is essential for securing our economic recovery and for Luke Hall: I just outlined the numerous places in the levelling up. I join the shadow Minister, the hon. Member east midlands that are in category 1. Significant information for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), in thanking about the indexation is published on the Government’s all local authorities in the east midlands for the hard website. I urge the hon. Lady to look at that. work and leadership that they have provided in leading There is an important role here for the Members of the way through the recovery. Parliament. We recognise that formally in the levelling-up We are committed to unlocking economic prosperity fund and we encourage the hon. Lady to make a case across all regions of the country. We want to address through that. We recognise the significant number of long-standing geographical inequalities, deliver economic category 1 places in the east midlands. We have heard opportunity and improve lives right across the country. significant pleas for extra investment in the east midlands. As the Prime Minister announced in May, our landmark A number of Members have talked about making sure levelling up White Paper will be published later this we deliver that on the ground. We have made significant year, and will set up bold new substantive policies that investments in the region in recent years, including will improve opportunities, support businesses and boost committing £212 million for nine town deals: two in livelihoods across the country, including in the east north-east Derbyshire, one for Loughborough and one midlands. Indeed, an east midlands MP, my hon. Friend for Stapleford. We are investing £49 million in five high the Member for Harborough (Neil O’Brien), has been streets in the east midlands, over £370 million in the appointed the Prime Minister’s adviser on levelling up. local growth fund and £64.5 million in getting building Only last week, our officials were in the east midlands funding. That will help to drive local growth and economic to hear first-hand some of the opportunities available in recovery in the region. Some of those are already bearing the region, and some of the challenges faced. fruit at a local level. The £2.6 million local growth The levelling up White Paper will be a natural funding we awarded for the Vision University Centre continuation of our commitment to support local Mansfield is helping West Nottinghamshire College to places. We are already backing that up with our address the skills gaps in the area. The £3.7 million of 25WH East Midlands Economy7 SEPTEMBER 2021 East Midlands Economy 26WH local growth funding has supported the opening of the HS2 phases, will work together to deliver the reliable Museum of Making in Derby in May 2021, as part of train services that passengers in the midlands need and the redevelopment of the historic silk mill. There is deserve. £9.5 million of local growth funding supporting the I certainly heard the passion and the unanimous opening of a technology institute—a new build that voice from hon. Members about providing certainty on provides facilities for skills development, to meet the the project. Of course, we will take that back to colleagues needs of the automotive industry in Leicestershire. The at DFT and ensure that their voice is heard. I particularly east midlands has received over £3 billion in covid want to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe recovery grants, including small business and retail, (Darren Henry) and the hon. Member for Chesterfield hospitality and leisure grants, local restriction grants, (Mr Perkins) for making the point clearly that certainty support payments and restart grants. is required. Given the long-term significance of decisions Wethink partnership working will be key to levelling up. within the IRP, it is of course right that we carefully On the proposed East Midlands Development Corporation, consider those priorities and take on board evidence we are already engaged in some excellent joint working from a wide range of stakeholders before making the with local partners. My hon. Friend the Member for final decisions. Mansfield highlighted the key intervention in the four My hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Jane opportunities that he spoke about. We are currently Hunt) talked about the importance of delivering fairer considering the draft business case with propositions at council funding. She is aware that we had to postpone Ratcliffe-on-Soar, East Midlands airport and Toton. I the review of relative needs and resources due to the commend the councils involved, including Nottinghamshire pressures on councils getting involved in that conversation County Council, for maintaining that momentum by during covid. We think that was the right path, but we setting up a company as an interim vehicle in establishing made some changes this year, including extending the a locally led urban development corporation. That really rural services delivery grant and providing £240 million shows the intent and local leadership. As set out in the of equalisation. I look forward to working with her as Queen’s Speech, we intend to reform the development we continue to have a conversation about how to ensure corporation legislative framework through the Planning councils are funded fairly.Of course, there was a 4.5% rise Bill to ensure local areas have access to the appropriate in core spending power for the east midlands this year, delivery vehicles to support growth and regeneration. which she welcomed and supported at the time. This partnership approach will be crucial in developing On devolution, I thank my hon. Friend the Member plans for another significant opportunity in the east for Mansfield for his contribution, and I listened carefully midlands. I was of course pleased to see that the east to the arguments that he made. I am very grateful for midlands freeport was selected early this year as one of the comments from the hon. Member for Nottingham eight new prospective freeports, subject to business case East (Nadia Whittome) and for her support for securing approval. Of course, East Midlands airport—the largest a devolution deal. I recognise that it is a complicated dedicated cargo operation in the country—is based in picture across the region, but we certainly look forward the prospective freeport. It will be a key economic asset to having the discussion. in the east midlands. The right hon. Member for Derby There is so much more that could be said. I thank South (Margaret Beckett) said that will happen only if hon. Members for their contributions to the debate. I the Government share the enthusiasm to deliver those will certainly reflect on the points that have been made. projects—we absolutely do. I will take back to colleagues at the DFT and my Department the points about providing certainty, and I particularly want to put on the record my thanks to we look forward to continuing to work with colleagues my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) as we invest in this hugely important region and this for all her work in driving the project forward, and my important part of our agenda. hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Brendan Clarke- Smith) for his support. We recognise the scale of the 10.59 am opportunity that the project presents for the east midlands. Ben Bradley: I thank all colleagues who contributed The region’s connectivity to other freeports and the to this very important debate and, as well as raising combination of airport and rail port create a distinctive their local concerns, backed these key regional economic offer for the region. We are keen to see all partners projects that will create jobs and growth and support working together to deliver this for the east midlands our residents in all our constituencies across the area. I and build a strong outline business case, due for submission welcome the positive words from the Minister on those very shortly. We will continue to work with colleagues key projects, and the point he made about the significant across the east midlands to develop robust plans to investment through the towns fund and the levelling-up capitalise on the local growth agenda that can be delivered fund. I look forward to seeing a longer-term proposal here. for levelling up and what it means for our communities We heard a lot about HS2. We absolutely recognise in the White Paper this autumn. Perhaps we can have the good work done by local partners, including Sir John some long-term certainty about funding in the spending Peace, Midlands Engine and Midlands Connect to identify review. I am sure we will all continue to fight for these the potential impact of HS2 on Toton and the wider key projects for growth and the benefit of our constituents east midlands. The IRP will be published soon and will over the coming months and years. outline exactly how major rail projects, including future Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)). 27WH 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Impact of Floods in North Westminster 28WH

Impact of Floods in North Westminster The council recognised in the policy that: “Further enhanced surface water flood risk modelling was … … 11.1 am undertaken in 2015 The study considered the impact of climate change on surface water flood risk assuming a 20% and 40% increase Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): I beg to in peak rainfall intensity.” move, The council is currently undertaking its own review of That this House has considered the impact of floods in Westminster the July floods and we expect a report imminently. North. However, it is already clear that the increased risk of It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, flooding, due to climate change in particular, was Sir David, in this short debate. understood. I am grateful to the Minister for being here today and So what happened on 12 July, the day of these for this opportunity to raise an issue that has been particular floods? In the afternoon, intense rain impacted hugely important to my constituents this summer. I will on an estimated 500 properties, mostly, although not ask for her help in holding Thames Water to account entirely, in the area. The water rose incredibly for its very poor performance in the aftermath of the quickly and in addition to the rain and the overflow, floods in my constituency and in getting responses from sewagepipesbackedup,coveringmanyhomes—particularly it to a number of unanswered questions about how the basements—with raw sewage. Thousands of calls were floods occurred. In doing so, this debate will also have made to Thames Water, with little or no response from implications for water companies and flood preparation it in the immediate aftermath of the flooding. in other parts of the country. The London Fire Brigade was in attendance and Before I turn to the specific events that happened in many local residents spoke of there then being a specific Westminster North, I will briefly refer to the context intervention by the fire brigade, which led water to in which they happened, because they clearly took place drain away “like a plug being pulled out of a bath”. in the context of rising flood risks, arising in particular Over that night and the next day or two, hundreds of from climate change. We know that climate change is residents and businesses were left in crisis, due not only impacting harder and faster than even our worst fears a to the damage but to the obvious health risk associated few years ago, and that devastating floods have wreaked with the sewage overflows. havoc across the world, from New York to Germany After a varyingly slow start, which was particularly and elsewhere. We have to accept the reality that extreme slow by Thames Water, staff from the council, from weather events are the new normal. Also, while poorer housing providers and then from Thames Water got to communities are always at greater risk of damage from the scene to support people and begin the clear-up. such extreme events, floods or other kinds of extreme People helped their neighbours magnificently and many weather—such as the extremely dry weather that causes staff worked very hard in the aftermath to ease the forest fires—are no respecters of postcodes. distress. Even so, people fell through the net. One So when Thames Water points to an exceptionally constituent, who is HIV positive and currently receiving slow-moving weather system concentrating unusually cancer treatment, was put into a hotel and no payment high rainfall in a particular area, as was the case in my was made. My office was dealing with him on the night constituency in July, it may indeed be right. The question after the floods when he was crying in the lobby because is whether such a powerful monopoly provider as Thames of the lack of support. Water should have done more to anticipate and prepare for such events. Also, given the history, which I will Many people had to be urgently rehoused after their refer to in a moment, why did the preparations that had home was flooded with sewage. That was not organised been made fail and why was Thames Water’s immediate for a couple of days and, even now—as recently as last response to the flooding so inadequate? week—I heard from a woman who is still confined to a single room in her home as she is immune suppressed Westminster City Council also has duties in this area. and the rest of her home is badly affected by the damp After the introduction of the Flood and Water Management and mould, to which she cannot risk prolonged exposure. Act 2010, responsibility for local flood risk management, including surface water run-off, groundwater and Those affected and many others in the at-risk areas flooding from ordinary water courses, was passed to want to know why the water rose so fast and why the lead local authorities, of which Westminster City Council sewers backed up and then why the water disappeared is one. so fast once the London Fire Brigade attended. They deserve to know whether anything could have been Westminster City Council had already identified, via done sooner to avert disaster as the rain fell. A typical its floods policy, that: comment went, “As you might know, the water levels “Due to the heavily urbanised nature of Westminster, and the dropped very suddenly after the fire brigade attended predominantly Victorian drainage infrastructure, there is a on our street and seemingly opened a flood valve or widespread risk of surface water flooding…It is expected that sewer flooding may occur within Westminster and a consistent removed some kind of obstruction. The rain was still risk profile is therefore applicable. There is a risk of groundwater falling as heavily as it had been, but the water went, in flooding within Westminster, and this risk is likely to be exacerbated my case, from 70 cm deep to ground level within minutes. by increased below ground development (basement extensions Thames Water are blaming heavy rainfall but that does etc.).” not explain how the water just dissipated.” The issue of basement extensions has been a hugely Many, although not all those affected in Westminster— controversial one for me in recent years. the problem was particularly concentrated in the Maida The council’s floods policy continues: Vale area—have a wider question. After localised flooding “There is a residual risk of flooding due to the failure of either some 10 years ago, ward councillors, residents and I water mains or canals”. pressed Thames Water to increase drainage capacity in 29WH Impact of Floods in North Westminster7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Impact of Floods in North Westminster 30WH the W9 and NW6 areas. This was strongly resisted for adjusted significantly to reflect the changing weather some time. Thames Water took the line that these were expected over the coming years before more homes are 100-year events. We counter-argued that there had now affected by similar events? been two 100-year events in the course of just three Almost everyone who was in touch with me and ward years. It gave in, and in the middle of the last decade, councillors over the days and weeks after the July new tanks were installed under Tamplin Gardens in W9 floods has good grounds for feeling that Thames Water and additional capacity was increased, with major works failed them with its response that night and in the around Warwick Avenue and lasting aftermath. A significant minority of people whose homes two years. were flooded are still suffering and feel that their housing In 2012, Thames Water told us it would complete the providers, council and Thames Water have not acted as Maida Vale sewer flooding alleviation scheme over the swiftly and caringly as they might have done, despite next two years, saying that the alleviation project would many of the employees stretching every sinew to help. cover four wards in the Maida Vale area and be good What assessment has been made of the capacity in news for the 400 or so residents who have experienced local authorities and housing providers to resource sewer flooding over the past few years, some of whom their emergency responses? They have been cut back have been flooded with sewage up to nine times. drastically in the past decade and, as we saw with The heart of the matter is this question, which Thames Grenfell, an effective emergency response cannot be Water and, to some extent, Westminster, must answer. guaranteed without the staff available to deliver it. Why did a major alleviation scheme designed to cope Increasingly, they also have to be able to manage more with 100-year events fail so spectacularly within just than one crisis at a time, or in close succession. half a decade? Was the additional capacity insufficient Has the Minister undertaken an assessment of the and should that have been foreseen six or seven years capacity of local councils and others to support residents ago? Was the system properly operational? Were there who lose everything in disasters such as this? Local any blockages in the system? Were the drains clear and support payments are designed to patch the increasingly properly maintained? If the rain that fell on 12 July was large holes in social security, not to help what might be a 300-year event, as we have now been told, how long hundreds of people on lower incomes who are uninsured before it fails again? and left without furniture, clothing and toys. Also, local If Thames Water now suggests that we cannot build support payments offer assistance only to those on our way out of the severe weather-related flood risk, qualifying benefits—excluding people on working tax how and when will a package of alternative measures be credits, for example. put in place across agencies to achieve a reasonable level Locally, we have organised crowd funding and worked of protection? with the local voluntary sector to relieve hardship. I congratulate such volunteers and One Westminster for Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): I thank my their assistance; they have been significantly more supportive hon. Friend for securing this debate because several of the community than has Thames Water, which I hundred of my constituents were equally affected by the asked to contribute to the hardship funding quite separately floods she is describing. Thames Water candidly described from the issue of liability—a request that has been its response to me as “bloody awful”. It said it was ignored. Why is it that volunteers and community under new management with new shareholders, but it is organisations can raise more money for people who always under new management and new shareholders. have been devastated by floods than the powerful monopoly That is the problem. It was exactly the same 10 or 15 water provider can? years ago, when the same properties were flooded for the same reasons and the schemes have either been I turn back to the flood itself. The threat of recurrence cancelled or have not worked. Does she agree that, like now haunts us locally.How are the Government working the Thames tunnel and the Bazalgette sewers we rely on with local authorities in areas such as mine, where large now, whoever ends up paying for and delivering this, it numbers of basement properties are understood to be needs Government direction, because this is a serious at particular risk? Westminster’s 2019 flood policy states: matter that repeatedly affects our constituents? “Self-contained basements or basement flats wholly or partially below ground without freely available access at all times to a Ms Buck: My hon. Friend is right. We are constantly habitable space above ground level within the same dwelling are ‘highly vulnerable’”, told that Thames Water is under new management. That management always seems to enjoy a level of and that remuneration that would make my constituents blanch. “applicants are encouraged to incorporate flood resistance and It continues to charge costs to consumers and is seemingly resilience measures as part of the design…to prevent water ingress impervious to the kind of challenges and questions that and to reduce flood damage should flooding occur.” he and I are raising. Is encouragement enough, however? How will that be We were told by Thames Water at a public meeting at monitored? Where will the responsibility lie in privately the end of July that this event was simultaneously owned properties, whether freehold or leasehold? What unforeseeable and yet also likely to happen again. Legally, rights do private tenants have? Who would pay for such its position remains that it is not liable for the damage alterations to social housing? The time for warm words arising as a result of the flooding. It claims that London’s and vagueness is definitely now over; in terms of damage sewers were never designed to deal with rain on that and indeed safety, we need firmer action. Do the scale, and yet relies on the fact that its systems meet the Government have plans to scale up the expectations of targets as evidence that it was not negligent. If that local councils—backed by the necessary resources—to position holds and is reaffirmed by the inquiry set up by review, report on and deal with factors that expose Thames Water, this question arises: how can targets be residents to flood risk? 31WH Impact of Floods in North Westminster7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Impact of Floods in North Westminster 32WH

[Ms Buck] for all sources of flooding, and although it does not lead on surface water flooding, it does provide support Then there is Thames Water. Ultimately, as I said, and advice on risks and facilitates effective partnerships. residents feel that Thames Water let them down I have just been on a visit to Merseyside and West catastrophically. One typical comment was: Yorkshire, and have seen some very good examples of “Thames Water were extremely slow in dealing with this emergency those partnerships working to get over some of the and when they made an appointment either didn’t turn up or if problems that people are facing. The lead local flood they did were several hours late. They then arrived with a dust authorities—county and unitary councils—have the lead pan and brush and a bottle of bleach and were quite unhelpful operational role in managing all local flood risks, including commenting always how it was not the fault of Thames Water and what a wonderful company they are.” surface water, and are responsible for identifying the risks and managing them as part of the local risk My constituents believe they deserve compensation management strategy. Alongside this, the highways for the damage caused, although Thames Water has authorities have responsibility for the road network, already been quick to deny liability. Will the Minister which includes highway and road drainage maintenance, assist my constituents and me in pressing Thames Water and water and sewerage companies are responsible for to ensure that the already somewhat foot-dragging maintaining the public sewer network to ensure that the independent inquiry is now completed as a matter of area is well drained. urgency, so that we have absolute clarity on the sequence of events on 12 July? How can my constituents hold As the hon. Member for Westminster North said, we Thames Water to account more effectively given the saw devastating flooding this summer, not just in obvious imbalance in power and resources between Westminster but around the world. Here, we had those them—me—and a private company of such size enjoying incidents in July and August: the Met Office recorded a monopoly position as a provider? I and hundreds of over a month’s worth of rainfall in just a few hours, and local residents need the support of the Government if the localised nature of the downpours meant that certain capacity is to be increased, people protected and Thames areas were incredibly badly affected while neighbours Water held to account. I look forward to the Minister’s were not affected at all. It was quite extraordinary, as I response. think the hon. Lady will agree. The flooding witnessed in north Westminster was primarily due to surface water. This kind of event occurs with extreme rainfall, 11.14 am where the water simply cannot drain away as quickly as The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for it is arriving. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow): As ever, it is a delight to see you in the Chair, Sir David. Ms Buck: I want to stress one of the central points of the argument: Thames Water built a £17 million flood I thank the hon. Member for Westminster North alleviation scheme, completed just six years ago, to deal (Ms Buck) for securing this important debate. The issue with exactly this problem in exactly this area, yet it has clearly affected so many people’s lives, as we saw in failed catastrophically. We have been unable to get the news during the summer. I pay tribute to all those Thames Water to properly respond to us about why that who helped: the emergency services, and in particular happened—whether it was a planning issue or an the Environment Agency and the fire services, who operational one. That is one of the key things that I really led on this emergency. would like the Minister to help me get Thames Water to My heart goes out to all those people who suffered; I respond to. come from Somerset, so I know about flooding. I have also visited a great many people around the country, so Rebecca Pow: I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, we know how devastating flooding can be for people. I and I hear what she says. Measures were put in place do not underestimate what it is like, and nor do the when the Met Office gave its warnings, but of course it Government: we have doubled flood funding to £5.2 billion was all so quick: the fire brigade swung into action, but in the next spending period, which will put in place those things that the Environment Agency could whizz more than 2,000 new defences around the country. into place, such as trash screens, just could not cope The hon. Member for Westminster North has focused with that flooding or the sewage overflows and so forth. very much on surface water flooding, and in the new That is what the Thames tunnel project is going Budget we have escalated the importance placed on that to address, and I have a meeting with those involved issue. Approximately a third of that spending will be on later this afternoon. However, the hon. Lady is right surface water flooding schemes, so although it did not that questions need to be asked about that new development. help the hon. Lady this July—although there are some As she referred to, a big public meeting was held with schemes within her constituency—that issue is going to Westminster City Council after the flooding. receive much greater emphasis going forward, and rightly Andy Slaughter: Will the Minister give way? so. Surface water flooding is the most widespread form of flooding in England, with around 3.2 million properties Rebecca Pow: I will just finish this bit and then give at risk. As the hon. Lady pointed out, the effects of way. There were lots of people—the council, Thames climate change combined with population growth mean Water, the Environment Agency and so forth. They that we are expecting more of these related issues. have committed to doing this independent review, which However, everybody—not just the Government—has is crucial. As Minister, I need to wait until we hear the a responsibility for managing water effectively.In England, consequences of that review and the Westminster section the statutory responsibility for managing flood risk falls 19 investigation before making any further comments. I to the risk management authorities, including the will be looking at that with interest and I will be happy Environment Agency and the lead local flood authorities. to have a conversation with the hon. Lady when we have The Environment Agency has a strategic overview role got that, because we do need to get these things right. 33WH Impact of Floods in North Westminster7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Impact of Floods in North Westminster 34WH

Of course, Ofwat is the regulator and Government and it is working on that now. The Government are set the policy. We are working on our draft policy making these plans a statutory requirement through the statement to Ofwat for the next period and will be Environment Bill. Weirdly, that was not statutory before, highlighting surface water flooding more than ever and it will be important to looking at the issues the hon. before, along with things like water quality and the Member for Westminster North is dealing with. We are whole sewage issue. We are doing a lot on that in the considering right now the guidance and reporting necessary Environment Bill, as I am sure the hon. Lady knows. to ensure timely action in areas with greater surface water flooding problems. Andy Slaughter: I am grateful to the Minister for Alongside all that, the Government are investing allowing me to intrude. Thames Water has told me that more in actions to mitigate surface water flooding overall. the tideway tunnel, which is very welcome in preventing In April 2020, we made a change to the partnership pollution going into the Thames, would not have helped funding arrangements, which are already having an in this situation. It would only have helped properties effect. In July, we published our investment plan over very near to the river, because this was high tide and the next six years, which includes £860 million in investment therefore some water would have been let through. It this year to boost design and construction of more than would not have helped my hon. Friend the Member for 1,000 schemes. We are aware of the big issue and more Westminster North or most of my properties that way. than a third of those will tackle surface water flooding, What would have helped is the Counters Creek flood including in London, with two schemes in Westminster. alleviation scheme, the £300 million project which went They are the Kilburn Park Road surface water scheme, down the middle of and Hammersmith and which should be completed by March 2022 and will would have protected those two boroughs. That was better protect 44 properties, and the Upbrook Mews cancelled by Thames Water and has not taken place. surface water scheme, which should be completed by Will the Minister accept that we need an inquiry into March 2025. why that did not happen and what can now be done to prevent exactly the same properties flooding on a regular Alongside that, I have been given assurances that basis? Thames Water is also taking action through its surface water programme.That is investing £3 million in partnership Rebecca Pow: Of course, many different schemes are with five local authorities and will be investing a further underway, but the Thames tideway tunnel is the biggest £1.5 million through a wider call for projects. That scheme we have taken part in for decades. It will address project could come under the scope of the reference serious issues around mixing of the waters and sewage made by the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy overflows in times when we get these extreme weather Slaughter). It will help better manage surface water events. It will make a big difference. I will put your entering the sewer network and enable the implementation points to them this afternoon. of a sustainable drainage system, while also creating green spaces and amenity value, because a lot of that is All flooding projects are ranked and rated according also linked to the schemes. I have seen some of the schemes to properties protected, delivery and so forth. There is and they are extremely welcome in neighbourhoods; strict protocol for that. The Environment Agency is they make the whole neighbourhood look and feel involved in trying to find out what happened at this better while having the double-whammy achievement of incident. It took part in a resilience forum after this helping to sort out the flood risk, the drainage and so event and is very engaged in advising and helping. on. I want to take the opportunity to talk about surface water. It is pertinent, because we just published an We are also working with 25 local authorities across updated report on surface water management, setting England, investing £150 million in place-based resilience out progress in delivery of our surface water management innovation projects. Some of those will include mitigating action plan. David Jenkins did an independent report surface water and flood risk, and the outcomes will be on surface water and drainage responsibilities. Key shared with other local authorities and risk management highlights include Government funding to provide better authorities, so they can learn from those projects and—if surface water flood risk maps in 28 lead local authority we find something that particularly works and would areas by summer 2022. That site list will be crucial to apply, for example, to Westminster or Thames Water— the areas mentioned and those across the country, so adopt some of those measures. that people know what is happening. That is what the In addition to the Government’s investment, water hon. Gentleman is getting at, I think. We need a clear companies will be investing more than £1 billion between view of what the situation is on the ground, what is 2020 and 2025 to reduce the impact of flooding on working and what else needs to be done. These flood communities across England and Wales. They have risk maps will be really important. Improved mapping proposed an additional £2.7 billion of environmental will provide over 3 million people with more detailed investment through the Government’s green economic information about local surface water flood risk. recovery fund. Some of those projects have been accelerated, The Met Office and the EA are scoping out a new partly owing to the impacts of covid and the lockdown, approach to provide faster communication for surface because there were so many spin-offs from those sorts water flood forecasts when an incident is deemed likely, of projects. A lot of those include measures such as which would be helpful since people need to react very blue-green infrastructure, natural flood management fast. Water and sewerage companies are working with and partnership working at a catchment scale, which is other risk management authorities to produce drainage important. It is not just about what is happening outside and waste water plans, ensuring that drainage and our door, but where that water is coming from and what sewerage systems are resilient to withstand these future has affected it further up the catchment. That still pressures. Again, Thames Water will have to do that, applies to all the London areas as well. 35WH Impact of Floods in North Westminster 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 36WH

[Rebecca Pow] Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing The Environment Agency works with lead local flood [MR CLIVE BETTS in the Chair] authorities to manage surface water flood risk through strategic planning, supporting the development of projects, 2.30 pm access to Government flood and coastal erosion risk management funding and access to regional flood and Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Welcome, everyone, to coastal local levies. The regional flood and coastal this session at Westminster Hall. It is good to see you all committee levy plays an important role in the financial in person. To begin with, I need to remind everyone of support for the development of the lead local flood the guidance. It is not my guidance; it is Government authorities—all those titles are very wordy, are they not, guidance and guidance approved by the House of Sir David? That can help fill the funding gap outside the Commons Commission, encouraging all Members to direct legal lead local flood authority funds and the wear masks when they are not speaking. Please will grant in aid, as well as paying for Thames flood advisers Members and members of staff give each other space to provide additional service on scheme development. I when seated, and when entering and leaving the room? know the EA teams are working with the Greater Also, could Members’ speaking notes be sent to Hansard London Authority, Thames Water, by email, please? Similarly, could officials communicate and the local authorities on sustainable urban drainage electronically with Ministers? I understand that Ministers systems, flood risk, water quality and all those measures. can read emails and texts, so that should not be a particular problem, and it helps to make sure that we Our ambition is to make a nation more resilient to follow the guidance. Thank you all for your co-operation. future flood and coastal erosion and work to manage and mitigate the effect of surface water flooding will 2.31 pm continue at pace. I hope I have demonstrated that I mean business about this, as do the Government, Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): I beg to move, contributing towards implementing the flood and coastal That this House has considered continued nuclear fuel risk management policy statement. We are working manufacturing in the UK. with stakeholders on all of this. We will be undertaking It is a pleasure to move the motion under your a review of maintenance responsibilities to examine chairmanship, Mr Betts. I know that you are very whether existing local buyers are efficient in ensuring passionate about manufacturing and skills, so I cannot local assets are maintained and expertise is shared across think of a more appropriate person to be chairing authorities. I think the hon. Member for Westminster today’s debate. North will be interested in that. Springfields nuclear fuel manufacturing plant is located We are also reviewing with the Ministry of Housing, in my constituency of Fylde. It is not just a nuclear fuel Communities and Local Government the policy for manufacturing plant; it is the United Kingdom’s only development in areas of flood risk. Finally, the storm nuclear fuel manufacturing plant, so by any definition overflows taskforce will make recommendations on lots that makes it a key UK strategic asset. That is a theme of those issues as well as sustainable drainage and the that I want to touch on later in my speech. Beyond that sewage outlets.I hope I have demonstrated my commitment. strategic importance, over 800 people are employed I am always very happy to talk to the hon. Lady and I directly at Springfields, with employees hailing from the thank her for raising the subject today. full breadth of the north-west’s nuclear arc, and with the wider supply chain employing countless thousands Question put and agreed to. more. Indeed, Government estimates indicate that fuel 11.30 am fabrication facilities in the north-west support over Sitting suspended. 4,000 direct and indirect jobs, including roughly 400 people at Urenco in Capenhurst, who are likely to be impacted hard by any drop-off in demand at Springfields. Among these employees, roughly a third of those who work on site began their career as apprentices, jumping at the chance of what were jobs for life, as 2,000 people have done since apprenticeship schemes started at Springfields 71 years ago. Among those was the current managing director, Brian Nixon. I hope that demonstrates that these are secure, well-paid jobs, of the kind that must be at the heart of the Government’s levelling-up agenda, particularly in a sector that has at its heart the north-west’s economy with its industrial base. Beyond the local economy, our nuclear industry is also helping to forge the UK’s path towards achieving our net zero ambitions, having already produced the nuclear fuel that has powered the equivalent of 20 years’ energy consumption since 1946. Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I am sure the hon. Gentleman shares my concerns that the UK had to fire up West Burton A yesterday, and that we are now 3% dependent on coal this year, at a time when the Government are talking about phasing out 37WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 38WH the use of coal for electricity generation by 2024. If we support to help the gap before the new technology are to achieve our green credentials, particularly in the comes into play and we usher in a golden age of new year of COP26, we have to look at all the options, and nuclear. There is a world-class skills base at the site, nuclear is inevitably among those options. with plenty of opportunities on the horizon, particularly in the latter part of the decade. The Government need Mark Menzies: The right hon. Lady has made a very to take a long-term view of the industry. Given that no powerful point that I think everyone present would similar facility exists in the UK, those skills will be agree with. As we look to build towards that low-carbon impossible to replace. Many of the people who have future, with the backdrop of an ever more uncertain taken voluntary redundancy were there as apprentices, world, we must also strengthen our energy security. and the collective knowledge among those people really Sovereign manufacturing capability must be at the heart is quite something. To lose that is shocking. of that, particularly that of our sole civil nuclear fuel The vision for net zero looks to 2050, and to lose a manufacturing site, which of course is Springfields. One key component in a low-carbon industry in the mid-2020s, lesson that the pandemic taught us is that when countries— at the start of our net zero journey, due to a short-term including our closest allies—meet obstacles, they will approach is incredibly counterproductive. In the long seek to protect their own interests.It is simply inconceivable term, it is essential to have a holistic approach that that in the thriving nuclear industry of the future, we incorporates as much UK involvement in new deals as may be reliant on overseas markets for the core parts of possible. For example, Lancashire is already at the heart our reactor supply chain. of SMR—small modular reactor—manufacturing in From an environmental perspective, it is also believed the UK, and that technology of the future creates huge that existing uranium stocks could be enriched and export potential. used to make fuel. Existing stocks are sufficient to power Sizewell C throughout its lifetime, and Springfields Liz Saville Roberts: I thank the hon. Gentleman for Fuels Ltd has built an industry hub, working closely giving way; he is being very generous with his time. with bodies such as the National Nuclear Laboratory. Trawsfynydd in my constituency is widely recognised as one of the best sites, and the first of its kind, for SMR. I Let us look at the challenges. Although the future is am sure he will welcome the Welsh Government’s full of promise for Springfields and the wider UK appointment of Mike Tynan to Cwmni Egino, the nuclear sector, significant and urgent challenges remain— company that will bring this forward. His point about namely, a short-term drop-off in fuel orders that risks the risk of losing skills relating to fuels and generation causing redundancies and, more worryingly, the per se is critical. If the Government are serious about irreplaceable loss of skills. At the heart of this is the looking at nuclear among our options, we have to likelihood of early closure and uncertainty around maintain those skills. Dungeness B, Hinkley B and Hunterston. With 70% of site income related to advanced gas-cooled reactor fuel Mark Menzies: Indeed. If I may comment without manufacture, that uncertainty has seen a sudden drop-off embarrassing the right hon. Lady, she is a true champion in demand. Given the possibility that manufacturing on of the workforce in her constituency, and she never existing orders will end as early as 2023, this really is an misses an opportunity to make the case for investment urgent situation, and retrospective action cannot resolve in her area and champion that technology. the issue. However, this new technology can be achieved only if We are also waiting on decisions from the Government the Government set out their vision for the UK’s future about the next generation of reactors—the small modular SMR fleet, including a regulatory framework and site reactor fleet—with Sizewell C and other proposals still proposals. to be approved. Even with approval, construction will On SMR and AMR, I welcome the investment, take several years, which means a lengthy gap until particularly from the United States, but a way for Springfields-manufactured fuel is in use. That ambiguity investors to demonstrate their commitment is for them is causing delays in ownership-level decisions about the to promise to manufacture fuel in the United Kingdom. future, adding to the uncertainty, particularly among I strongly believe that a commitment to produce UK the workforce. fuel for UK reactors must include all future UK projects In the short term, to cope with the drop-off in and the possible transition of existing EDF contracts to demand, Springfields needs to find sources of income Springfields. To achieve that, it would be a huge step to support continued work and employment. To date, forward if the Minister held meaningful discussions the redundancies have been voluntary, but that will with EDF and US investors to work towards gaining likely not be the case going forward for employees, such assurances on future contracts and to move some management and the unions. I pay tribute to Unite and of the present contracts to the UK. Prospect for the incredible way in which they have There are many ideas about the next phase, but one is engaged on a cross-party basis to represent the interests that Framatome could manufacture at Springfields under of their workforce. I have corresponded with constituents licence, or that Westinghouse could manufacture working on site, who have made their feelings clear. Framatome fuel under licence, which would help to Some other opportunities in the wider nuclear sector bridge the gap without a major renegotiation of EDF are also proposed, such as decommissioning, but the contracts. Indeed, having discussed this possibility—only site’s unique selling point is its ability to produce nuclear yesterday, in fact—I know that EDF would be open to fuel, and that must be protected. having a requirement for UK-manufactured fuel written So what are the solutions? As the Minister knows, I in to contracts, as it works to solidify the long-term come to this debate not with challenges but with key future of its key UK operations. EDF actually wants asks. First, it is important to say that this is not a that clarity and certainty, which would go some way to company or a sector in decline. The need is just for securing Springfields. 39WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 40WH

[Mark Menzies] are key components of that. They provide tens of thousands of highly-skilled jobs, many in the north-west, As mentioned, there are huge opportunities on the particularly in Lancashire near my constituency of Preston, horizon, but without the go-ahead from the Government, where fuel production is concentrated. they remain something for the future. Therefore, it is Nuclear power is one of the largest and most reliable key that the Government affirm their backing for UK sources of low-carbon energy and electricity in the UK. nuclear and approve proposals for new reactors. With It has an essential role to play in the transition to net the spending review coming up and COP26 rapidly zero. The UK currently has only one new power station approaching, I cannot think of a better time for them to under construction. Without rapid progress, we will do that than now. However, we cannot just think about have what is referred to as a nuclear gap. The nuclear Sizewell C, which will provide opportunities for Springfields gap currently means that the UK’s only domestic nuclear to fulfil the required contracts; we also have to consider fuel manufacturer, Springfields in Lancashire, is facing the future, over the next 60 years, of what reliable a very uncertain future. It was a pleasure to meet the nuclear energy looks like. trade unions on College Green today and discuss the Support for other future opportunities, such as problems that the industry faces. It was nice to see them reprocessed uranium, is currently a growing area, and and great that they are fighting for the industry in the countries such as France rely on fuel imported from way that they are. Russia. We are a neighbour and strategic partner of France, with a strong nuclear safety record, so with The UK has something like 15 existing reactors, Government support and investment, this is something generating about a fifth of the electricity in the UK, that Springfields has the expertise to commence work with 13 others at various stages of construction or on in earnest. planning. The majority are due to reach the end of their operating lives and be shut down before 2030. In September To conclude, I cannot stress enough that, given the 2016, the Government gave the final go-ahead to Hinckley time-sensitive situation we find ourselves in, decisive Point C, which will be the first new nuclear power action is needed at the earliest opportunity to protect station for a generation. There is no doubt that we need this strategic national asset, and the Government must new build if we are to have that carbon-free future. do whatever it takes to safeguard that asset’s future. Mr Betts, coming from Sheffield, you will know that A new nuclear sector deal was passed in the Government’s Sheffield Forgemasters was regarded as a strategic national industrial strategy, and £200 million was promised by asset, and thank goodness action was taken to protect the Government to support the industry. However, since it. To stall further on nuclear would lead to irreplaceable then, major events have put that future in doubt. In skills being lost and facilities potentially closing. This is November 2018, there was a collapse of private sector an industry with a great future, but it needs the certainty support for a new plant at Moorside. In 2019, the that Government support on investment and future Hitachi project at Wylfa in north Wales was suspended, projects can give. which cast doubt on the future of nuclear plants per se. The employees who I have discussed today are genuinely I know that the Government have consulted on alternative world-class; many of them are unique in this country in finance models for the new reactors and are currently in terms of what they do. However, they are ready to take negotiations with EDF about a new nuclear plant, but it on the new challenges that exist. Government must is essential that they give these industries that firm work with industry to guarantee that UK nuclear fuel support—the hundreds of millions of pounds that was will be produced in the UK, and give the go-ahead to talked about originally—so that the jobs and technology the projects that will create those orders. If we do that in remain in this country. a timely way, both the workers and the plant would have A number of factors have contributed to the decline a future, a national strategic asset would be protected, in construction. Obviously, up-front costs are a big our journey towards low carbon would be a safe one, barrier, but once they are out of the way, it starts to this country would achieve energy security, we would be look far more viable. The meltdown of Fukushima, the able to export fuels, with the AMRs and SMRs, to closure of THORP—the thermal oxide reprocessing many other countries around the world, and we would plant—and nuclear waste disposal are all problems that truly be heralding a golden era. I call upon the Government are being overcome and, with further research and to seize this opportunity. development, can be overcome, I think, in a reasonable time. Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): I think we have five A push for faster action on nuclear is needed, which hon. Members who want to catch my eye, which gives includes bringing forward legislation for the new funding them about nine minutes each. I am not imposing a model. Springfields, as the hon. Member for Fylde said, time limit, just giving guidance on how long to speak is the UK’s only civil nuclear manufacturing site. It is a for. source of high-value employment in the north-west and is critical, along with aerospace, to the Lancashire economy 2.44 pm moving towards a carbon-neutral future. That carbon- neutral future is at risk. There is a possibility of anything Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): I congratulate up to 120 redundancies at the site, which currently the hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) on securing employs around 800 people and supports around 4,000 jobs this important debate at such a critical time, when we across the wider supply chain. Prospect and Unite, the need to secure a carbon-free UK as soon as possible. trade unions, have since said that axing more than 10 roles The UK’s civil nuclear sector is among the most would put that carbon-neutral future at serious risk. The advanced in the world. Fuel production, generation, Government urgently need to bring forward a mixed-energy new build, and research through to decommissioning policy, which should include carbon-free nuclear. 41WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 42WH

In addition, nuclear technology plays a part in many I know that the Government have a nuclear fuel other areas, particularly in industry and higher education. working group. I welcome that, but working groups Some universities across the UK are offering courses come in many forms and shapes. Every Department has related to the nuclear industry,including my local university, a multiplicity of them. Some of them operate without a the University of Central Lancashire. The National Minister even being aware. I know from my own time as College for Nuclear is a cornerstone of the Government’s a Minister that, if it was moderately important, I might policy. Courses are being offered by five education try to attend the initial meeting to set the agenda and providers, including two near my constituency of Preston, make it clear that it mattered to me. If it was really at Lancaster & Morecambe College and the Lakes important, I attended every single meeting. I urge the College in west Cumbria. Minister to send a signal to and sit on the shoulders of I also understand that an advanced nuclear skills and her no doubt fantastic officials to attend every single innovation campus, which has an eight-month pilot meeting. This is really important, not just for Springfields launch from June this year,is now based at the Springfields but for our future national security. site, with leaders from industry and academia, including We rightly hear a lot about net-zero, green recovery UCLan, the University of Manchester and the University and the levelling-up agenda—sometimes too much for of Sheffield. I was pleased to hear the right hon. Member my personal taste—but here in the Lancashire countryside for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) refer to is the living embodiment of those three agendas. I have Mike Tynan. I have known Mike for years, from when always argued as an MP for more high-quality,high-skilled he was based at Springfields. I understand he is now at jobs on the Fylde coast, near my relatively deprived the University of Sheffield, which I am sure is not coastal town of Blackpool and Cleveleys. Here they are, unknown to you, Mr Betts. UCLan also offers modules just a few miles away, in the Lancashire countryside. on decommissioning waste and environment management There can be found the National Nuclear Laboratory on the nuclear fuels cycle. and a clean fuels technology pod. The site trains many There is a lot of controversy around the industry at apprentices, as we have heard, including for firms in my the moment concerning the involvement of China and constituency, such as Victrex. China General Nuclear, which owns a significant stake We are in a state of concern because we do not know in Hinkley Point C, and our involvement with France. what the future holds. We risk losing it, like the British One thing is certain: we have to co-operate with China empire, in a fit of absence of mind. But it is a vital to develop a carbon-free world. China is a huge country national capability. It cannot be recreated from scratch. with a huge population and must be part of the solution, If we lose the golden thread, the continuity of the skills not just seen as a problem, as in the case of the very base, we will end up dependent either on the French poor debate and decision over Huawei. We can either Framatome or—in my view, unlike that of the hon. stay in the 20th century or move forward, with partners Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick), even worse—on such as China and France, who have got so much to the Chinese. offer the industries. In conclusion, investing in new Framatome already supply Sizewell B. They already nuclear is a no-brainer, so let us get on with it. have the contract for Hinkley Point C. In my view, there should be a guarantee of UK fuels for UK reactors 2.51 pm written into all future contracts. Framatome already get Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): through processed uranium from Russia. Springfields It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, could do that. The site cannot just be mothballed in the Mr Betts. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member hope that a future Government might wake up. If for Fylde (Mark Menzies) on securing a vital and timely Springfields really is seen by the Government as a piece debate. I pay tribute to the unions who welcomed me of critical national infrastructure, as I firmly believe and my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Chris that it should—and I would welcome a commitment to Green) to the Springfields plant a few weeks ago, so that effect from the Minister—that has to mean something that we could see for ourselves the role it plays in that in practical policy terms. Warm words today will not be community. I also pay tribute to the workers down the enough for my constituents, who want an action plan to years—60 or 70 years—at Springfields, many of them bridge the nuclear gap, secure their own jobs and secure my constituents. Along with Capenhurst and Calder the nuclear future of this country. Hall, the site has been one of the key drivers of our nuclear industry in the post-war era, underpinning so 2.56 pm much of our economic development. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the hon. The domes of Dounreay might be more worthy of Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) for raising this heritage protection but they relied on Springfields. The important issue. We are all interested in this issue—that current fleet of nuclear reactors also relies on Springfields is why we are here—but it is also an issue that we cannot in the here and now, but the footprint and the numbers ignore, because of the importance of the subject matter. employed at the site have declined over time. Employment I have raised this topic on a number of occasions, and is now in the hundreds, not the thousands, and cannot my position on it has been clear. I am pleased to see the afford to be lowered further. Minister in her place, and I look forward to her response, We need to look at Springfields’ future. We know that as I always do. I should put on record that I have the ultimate parent owners have uncertain intentions, at supported nuclear power all of my political life, in this best, about the future of the site, so policy needs to Chamber, in the Assembly and formerly in the council move at pace. We have heard that advanced gas-cooled as well. reactor closures are likely to be brought forward, creating My position has been solidified by the push, the a gap around 2024 before demand for nuclear fuel correct push, for greener energy where possible, within increases once more, as new reactors come on stream. the confines of the cost, which we cannot ignore either. 43WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 44WH

[Jim Shannon] economic value to the UK of £18 billion. Those jobs in small and medium businesses throughout the supply I was reading in the press recently that, if you ask chain, and the economic value that this project has to people whether they are in favour of green energy, the the UK, cannot be ignored. That skilled workforce and majority will answer, “Yes, we are.” When you tell them supply chain need a clear future; they need to know that supporting green energy may mean a 10% or what is happening as well. I want Northern Ireland to 15% increase in their energy prices, all of a sudden what be part of that supply chain, so perhaps when the it means for people becomes much more real. It is Minister sums up, she can give us some indication of important that we pursue green energy, but—it is a how Northern Ireland can play its part in that. I would debate for another day, to be fair—we cannot ignore the certainly like that to be part of the Government’s implications of some of our decisions. commitment; I do not doubt that it will be, but I just I recently read, in a briefing by EDF Energy, that want to hear it for Hansard and on the record, please. nuclear is the only proven, reliable low-carbon electricity Together, Hinkley Point C and Sizewell C will produce source and that it is vital to achieve our climate targets enough zero-carbon electricity to power 12 million homes— and create highly qualified jobs, mostly outside London, again, that is incredibly important and cannot be ignored. as part of the Government’s levelling-up agenda. I see EDF is building the UK’s first nuclear power station in some Members here who are very supportive—indeed, a generation at Hinkley Point, and I am given to understand we are all supportive—of the levelling-up agenda, but that the electricity generated by that plant will offset we want to see what it will mean for our constituents. I some 9 million tonnes of carbon emissions per year, or would very much like to see Northern Ireland being 600 million tonnes over its 60-year lifespan. Again, part of the levelling-up agenda on this issue, as part of those figures cannot be ignored, and we should be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern encouraged by them. Ireland—as I always say, Mr Betts, better together. I The Energy Technologies Institute has identified the know that the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun two key cost drivers of new nuclear power stations as (Alan Brown) would wholly endorse that; I am surprised construction and financing, and building this series is he has not said, “Hear, hear!” That is facetious, but he key to lowering both. Hopefully, we can address both of understands the circumstances. There are occasions those drivers by having the series and plan in place; I when we can do better together, and this is one of them. believe the Government are committed to that strategy We need to see similar investment and equality of and that plan. I have been told that the cost of financing spending across all of the regions of the United Kingdom, Sizewell C will be lower because of the reduction in risk in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well. I wish through building the second project in the series, and to see that happen. because the funding model—the regulated asset base The only thing I would add to the motion is the word model—enables investors to receive a steady return on “safe”—we need to make sure that nuclear fuel their investment during construction, meaning that they manufacturing in the UK is safe. Safe nuclear is the will be able to provide capital at a lower cost. I am a only proven, reliable low-carbon energy source that we great believer in ensuring that investors have a return; I have. I have always made it clear that we can and should would respectfully suggest that we want to see a return use nuclear energy,but only to the highest safety standards. for them, but not an exorbitant one. However, we have a That does cost money. There is a cost implication, as responsibility to the taxpayer to ensure that investors there always is. It means ongoing investment, which is can invest their money and get that return. why I was interested to learn that currently over 85% of I look to Government, and in particular to the Minister, the UK’s nuclear fuel is manufactured within the UK, to provide a response setting out their vision—and her predominantly by the existing advanced gas-cooled reactor vision—of low-carbon energy, and how this can be power stations. Fuel fabrication will decline, with seven achieved for all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain out of eight of the UK’s current nuclear fleet, responsible and Northern Ireland by using safe nuclear power, with for around 20% of the UK’s zero-carbon electricity, a viable financing option in legislation and in operation. currently scheduled to be offline by 2030. If we can do that, I believe we will all benefit. I am sure we have all heard the selling points regarding the potential opportunity that Sizewell C in Suffolk 3.3 pm presents to secure a future for UK nuclear fuel manufacturing, should that project be approved. It is Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con): It is a pleasure to right and proper that it is explored, and that we have all serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts, and to follow the information necessary to take it forward. The hon. the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) referred to has articulated so many of the arguments and points in China’s position. I cannot agree with him. I am not this debate so well. It was a great pleasure to visit the anti-China—it would be wrong to be so—but we need constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde to know about China’s intentions. We need to know (Mark Menzies) to see the amazing facility at Springfields, what they are about: if their investment could be used and to get such a strong sense of how key it is—not just to our advantage as well as to their advantage, that is to our nuclear future, but in the framework of our good, but not if it is solely to their advantage. It is our energy future—and the importance of nuclear as a land and our country, and we need to have the last say reliable form of energy. This, after all, is what the debate on what happens. If protections are in place, we will is about. want to see them before this project can be fully considered. I not only met the organisation there; the National Hinkley Point C in Somerset has already supported Nuclear Laboratory is sited there as well. I heard the around 71,000 jobs, so we cannot ignore the jobs that powerful representations and views of the trade unions, are created through these projects. It uses a supply Unite and Prospect. Their championing of the workers chain of more than 3,600 businesses, and has an estimated there, and the clear collaboration and close relationship 45WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 46WH between the management of the site, the workers and It is very positive that the Government have an the union movement, is such an important thing for the increasingly strong hydrogen agenda. Again, that relies future of any organisation. Working together is such a to a significant extent, it seems, on carbon capture and key part of the success and, hopefully, the ongoing storage and that is not yet at scale or cost effective. future success of the site, but we need to understand Again, this is more technology that will probably be what ought to be a fairly straightforward debate. quite expensive and has not yet arrived. Perhaps in the Fundamentally, we need clean, reliable and affordable longer term, we will need those technologies, but in the energy to meet not only our current needs but our shorter term, we need more reliance on nuclear. That is future needs as well. We do not know what the future where Springfields plays such a key part. It produces will bring, but I would certainly like to see far more the fuels now and will produce the fuels in the future, industry being located in Britain. China, India and but there is a short-term gap that needs to be bridged. many other countries around the world have been very With more of our nuclear fleet being decommissioned competitive. We have been losing a great deal of heavy in the very near future, we need to secure the future of industry, and we need an energy supply that industry the Springfields site. As My hon. Friend the Member and heavy industry can use in an affordable way to be for Fylde highlighted, we should perhaps renegotiate competitive with those countries, and with Germany as with the French nuclear industry to make sure that we well. Germany is going down in terms of nuclear, but by can manufacture in the UK, perhaps under licence or doing so it is going up in terms of coal and other fossil whatever kind of relationship. We can do that. We also fuels. That does not really fit in with what we normally hear have the promise of massive investments in the nuclear about our European neighbours, which is that they are far fleet, because they are very expensive projects. That is more environmentally friendly than us. By turning their some level of leverage we can use with the French, and I back on nuclear, they are embracing carbon emissions. am sure we will be able to get a deal that ensures that we With our ambitions for COP26 and our leadership in can keep those skills. That is such a key part: having this area, we ought to be looking at those sources of Springfields there for the short, medium and longer power that can reduce carbon emissions. It is the term means we keep the skills in the United Kingdom. Government’s agenda; it is the international agenda. Not only my hon. Friend but the team in Government Nuclear is a key part of that, but we have to think about and the COP 26 President have to have that ambition. the steps that we need to take to get there. There was a We need to speak out more consistently. It is bit of controversy recently about coking coal being disappointing—I do not know how true it is—that the produced in Cumbria rather than being imported for sense in Glasgow is that the nuclear industry is not the British steel industry. It is so important that we take being welcomed to participate in COP 26. It ought to be the effective and right judgments, and not only for the a key part of it. I hear the COP 26 President speak short term for British industry. Whether it is the Minister passionately on a regular basis about other forms of or the wider Government, we have to reassure industry energy, but I do not hear the same passion about the and the nuclear sector that we have a future here, and nuclear industry. For the nuclear sector, for long-term will not export our industry overseas and feel good investment, we need to hear far more about the British about exporting our carbon emissions to countries that Government’s commitment to the sector—not just perhaps have slightly lower expectations and standards Springfields but the sector more widely—because that is than we do. what creates confidence. If people, whether from my We need to support British manufacturing industry. constituency or more likely my neighbours’constituencies Wealso therefore need to support reliable energy,baseload of Fylde, Blackpool North and Cleveleys or even Preston, or firm energy, as I think the term is now, where we are to take up an apprenticeship, they must have confidence know, day or night, whatever the day of the year, we will in the future.There are other companies—British Aerospace have the energy that we need for industry and for and others—that can take that talent, but Ministers homes—for cooking and for heating. We ought to be need to give confidence to the next generation of engineers able to rely on that. As highlighted earlier this week in and scientists and other people coming through that , the UK produced a record of this is a career for them. 14,286 MW of energy on 21 May, which is extraordinary, We have to see the sector also within the framework but earlier this week or last week we dipped down, just of national security and strategic national interest. If from wind, to 474 MW. That is not reliable energy that we lose the skills and the businesses, it is very difficult if people wanting to keep a warm home in the middle of not impossible to bring them back. It is also a question winter can rely on. It is not what industry can rely on, of Hinkley C and the skills there. We need to have that especially the steel industry.The next generation furnaces certainty about building the rest of the nuclear fleet, will be reliant on electricity. How can the steel industry when that is going to happen and what type of nuclear run an arc furnace if it cannot rely on the energy fleet we are going to have. If those engineers and that supply? talent at Hinkley C do not have jobs to go to, they will It all goes together and the nuclear industry is key. use their talents in other projects around the country. This is technology that we have at the moment. We When we get around to building the next nuclear power know how nuclear energy works. We know that we can station, that talent will be gone. For reliability and produce stations that are reliable and cost-effective. We effectiveness in terms of delivery, we have to secure that often hear about wind and solar energy, but there are talent, just as we need to secure the talent in Lancashire. significant technological problems with those forms of It ought to be seen as a key part of the levelling-up energy when it comes to providing firm energy. Until we agenda, not just for championing Lancashire, the north have storage of that energy, so that when the peaks west and the border, and the north of England, but even happen we can store the energy to take us through more for Derby North. I do not know what kind of next- difficult times, those forms of energy will not be as generation nuclear fleet we are going to have, but Derby reliable as industry and homes need. is going to be a key part if we choose to have small 47WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 48WH

[Chris Green] Meanwhile, we have all been slightly sidetracked by the huge opportunities in renewable energy, not least offshore modular reactors, perhaps of the Rolls Royce design. I wind and the sector I have spent a lot of time on—marine am sure we have a strong voice in Government championing energy.I encourage all hon. Members who are supporters the cause. It would be lovely to hear it a bit louder. of nuclear to look at what is being achieved by Orbital Marine Power off Orkney in the north of Scotland. It is Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Finally, but not least, a remarkable generation of marine energy. In a sense, Richard Graham. Just to say that we need to start the all that complements what we can do with nuclear, wind-ups at 3.28 pm at the latest. because it opens another great opportunity, which is to 3.14 pm generate hydrogen at or very close to our nuclear power stations. I would welcome it if the Minister commented Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Thank you, on what progress we might make on that over the next Mr Betts. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. two or three years. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) on securing this debate and colleagues My constituency of Gloucester has been the nuclear from around the House on joining in what might be operational headquarters for British Energy and now called a celebration of nuclear, to which I know the EDF Energy for a long time, operating all the existing Minister will respond positively. nuclear power stations in Britain. Of course, we hope to take our nuclear skills in a new and different direction My hon. Friend made absolutely clear his views of with a bid to become the hub, at Oldbury and Berkeley, the future of civil nuclear fuel manufacturing in the UK for the development of nuclear fusion. We are very keen at Springfields in his constituency, and made the case to see the operation at Barnwood play a major role in as strongly as any of us could have expected him to the development of Sizewell C. As colleagues have do, with a crucial role for Sizewell C. In the remaining mentioned, the opportunities for skills, careers and minutes before the wind-ups, I want to touch on that well-paid jobs in a sector that is so vital to everything crucial aspect of this debate, but then widen it fairly we do is enormous. swiftly into the role of nuclear in the United Kingdom, as hon. Members have tended to do. Can the Minister give us any update on Sizewell C? When will the Government consider the next project The crucial thing is that the case for nuclear has to be thereafter and how fast we can take forward the restated again and again, because it has not always been development of hydrogen at our nuclear power stations? clear that this Parliament has supported it. Whereas I hope that my comments supplement and complement nuclear energy itself has continued to deliver consistently what colleagues from around Westminster Hall have throughout the past 60 years, political views have ebbed said in support of a sector that is so vital to our future. considerably over that time. Ultimately, although the 103,000 jobs and important Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): We now move on to the supply chains are clearly vital to the economy, that is Front-Bench speeches. We have slightly more than not the fundamental reason why we need nuclear, which the normal 10 minutes. We will allow two minutes for is, in summary, the only proven low-carbon power that the mover of the debate to wind up at the end, so you does not raise emissions, even in extreme weather. Over have about 12 minutes. You do not have to take that the past 60 years,it has consistently delivered more than 20% time, of course. I call Alan Brown of the SNP. of the UK’s electricity needs. We know that those needs will rise so it is crucial that we plan for the future. If the criticism of democracy is sometimes that we only think 3.20 pm in terms of five-year election cycles, it is vital that Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): Thank nuclear is the exception to that short-term thinking. you, Mr Betts. Thank you for your guidance. It is a I listened with interest to the thoughtful comments pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I have a made by the hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) funny feeling that it might not be a pleasure for other about the sector about which he knows so much— hon. Members to listen to my contribution, because, engineering, nuclear and skills—but the fact is that not for the first time, I might be presenting a minority unfortunately his own party’s failure to do anything for and contrary view in the room. That said, I congratulate the best part of a decade led to a loss of skills, the sale the hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) on initiating of British Energy and our dependence thereafter on the debate. It is only right that an MP fights to retain foreign investment and skills. Much has changed since and create jobs within his or her constituency. He has 2010, of course. Crucially, with the construction at been ably supported in that by the hon. Members for Hinkley Point, we have the opportunity for the first Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick), for Bolton West (Chris time in a very long time to build up domestic skills, Green), for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) which can then continue at Sizewell C. I hope very and by—from the adjacent constituency—the hon. Member much that the Minister will indicate that there will be for Strangford (Jim Shannon), as well as the hon. further opportunities in the future to build additional Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham). nuclear power stations, thus taking on the skills from It is clear that Springfields has been an important generation to generation, reducing the cost, increasing employer through the years, with highly skilled jobs our skills, possibly enabling us to become exporters of that are well paid. It is clearly very important to the skills again, and reducing our dependency on foreign north-west region of England, which I appreciate.However, skills. if we are looking forward, when we consider the need The mood music at the moment is encouraging. for the production of nuclear fuel within the UK, we None the less, I understand that the 18 GW proposal at need to look at the strategic picture. In that strategic Sizewell C has not yet reached financial agreement. picture, we have to ask whether nuclear energy is required Anything the Minister can say on that would be welcome. at all. 49WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 50WH

Even more important, we need to understand the itself will give the market an indication of where that is cost and risks of nuclear energy and the state of the going. We will be looking at the next year or two for the nuclear energy generation market. There are too many final investment decisions. false narratives from the nuclear industry, though it is Turning to the recent history of the nuclear sector in very successful at lobbying. Briefings from EDF argue the UK, it is obvious there has been a market failure as that it is the only proven reliable low-carbon technology— well as a failure of Government strategy. Clearly, that many hon. Members have said that today—but, by way has impacted Springfields in the demand for nuclear of an example, last year, Scotland generated 97% of the fuel. Hinkley point C is the most expensive nuclear equivalent of its electricity demand from renewable project in the world. When the right hon. Member for energy. Maidenhead (Mrs May) became Prime Minister, she Looking ahead to Sizewell, EDF argues that, with threatened a U-turn on this project, but then caved in Sizewell being a copy of Hinkley Point C, there will be and signed the deal anyway. The cost for Hinkley is now cost savings in that building. That might be the case estimated at £22.5 billion, which is an increase of 25% on design-wise, but there are different access and construction the estimated cost when the deal was signed. The logistics to consider at Sizewell and the fact that it is Government tell us that cost increases are tied up in the still mired in the planning and environmental impact risk and that EDF carries that burden. The reality is assessments, before it can proceed on to detailed design, that no company can afford losses of £4.5 billion or means that nothing is certain in terms of cost at Sizewell. 25% of the original cost estimates, so electricity bill It is also nonsense to say that these projects are payers must be paying for it somewhere along the line. cost-comparable with other technologies. The reality is The sign-off for Hinkley was supposed to send signals that Hinkley Point C has a strike rate of £92.50 per to the market to allow other sites to be developed to megawatt-hour,for a 35-year concession contract, compared generate competition and bring down prices. Since then, with offshore wind, which now comes in at £40 per we know that Toshiba has walked away from developing megawatt-hour for just a 15-year concession contract. Moorside and Hitachi pulled out of Wylfa and Oldbury. At the moment, nuclear is roughly four or five times The good news for us electricity bill payers is that more expensive than onshore and offshore wind. Even £50 billion to £60 billion of expenditure has not been if the Government agree a regulated asset base funding committed. From a UK Government perspective, that model for Sizewell, that will not account for such a cost should have been the realisation that their nuclear differential. aspirations were in tatters. Unfortunately for Springfields, that is three pipeline projects that they could have Chris Green: I do not want to debate whether the accessed now lost. Worse, Hinkley point C is now hon. Gentleman ought to approve of nuclear, but there predicted to come online in June 2026 instead of 2025, is a question about the reliance on wind or solar panels. but it is a possible 15 months away on top of that, so it Perhaps there is a surge or abundance of energy at one could be September 2027 before unit 1 of Hinkley point, but if at night we have high pressure and no comes online. We will have to bear in the mind that the wind, how do we power things at that point? At the European Pressurised Water Reactors system has still moment we would typically be reliant on gas or coal. not been shown to be successful. Flamanville in France What will the source of power be in those times? is expected to generate in 2024—12 years late. Finland’s project is due to come on to the grid next year, but that Alan Brown: I will come on to that. The hon. Gentleman is 13 years late. himself touched on carbon capture and storage. It has not been proven at scale yet, but it is nearly there. We Sir Mark Hendrick: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? are looking at hydrogen. The Government have their own hydrogen production targets, as have the Scottish Alan Brown: I have to watch my time, I apologise. I Government. Hydrogen can clearly be used from storage. can come back maybe. Taishan in China was held up as The regulatory regime should be changed for the capacity an exemplar when it went online, but it has now been market so that storage can be collocated with renewables taken offline because of safety concerns. If China General and used to access the capacity market. The Electricity Nuclear Power Corporation is involved at Hinkley and Act 1989 should be changed so that electricity released the consortium for Sizewell, the fact that Taishan has from storage is not double charged as a generator, got safety concerns should be ringing alarm bells for the which happens at the moment. There are other things in Government. We talk about energy security, but the terms of Government strategy and regulation that would reality is that we have a reliance on France’s state-owned help advance the situation. company EDF and on China’s state-owned company China General Nuclear Power Corporation. That kind Chris Green: It is not quite the same as nuclear of blows our energy security argument. I have not heard fusion, which is always 50 years away—or that is what is any answers alternative to that in here. always said. On the other technologies, be it battery Sir Mark Hendrick: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? storage or carbon capture and storage, is there any certainty about the dates when these will become viable Alan Brown: Very briefly. technologies? Sir Mark Hendrick: I thank the hon. Gentleman for Alan Brown: I have to admit that there is not absolute giving way. He consistently mentions France. President certainty, but it is predicted that the first key carbon Macron recently said that by generating more than 41% of capture and storage plant could be up and running the energy in France, “nuclear makes us autonomous”. before another nuclear power station will be constructed. Macron also said, We are getting very close to the final investment decisions “It preserves French purchasing power, with a kilowatt-hour on these carbon capture and storage plants. That in 40% cheaper than our European neighbours.” 51WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 52WH

Alan Brown: That is what Macron said worked for 3.32 pm France. In actual fact we are helping France by paying EDF, effectively helping to subsidise the French nuclear Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): We market, so that does not make sense to me. It is by the have had a good debate this afternoon, with some good by. We will also have interconnectors coming from the contributions from hon. Members, on the subject of EU, including France, that do not pay grid charges. In Springfields nuclear fuels. I congratulate the hon. Member the north of Scotland Scottish renewable energies pay for— the grid charges, so French nuclear energy comes here at no charge, whereas Scottish renewables have to pay Mark Menzies: Fylde charges to connect the grid. The actual system is not thought through properly and that is why we need a Dr Whitehead: I congratulate the hon. Member on much better strategic look at things. securing what is an important debate, not just for the future of the plant in his constituency, which we are Going back to the timeframe before Hinkley is talking about this afternoon, but for the wider question operational, it is certain that seven of the existing eight of our strategic future, when we look at the future of nuclear power stations will be offline, because we know nuclear at all. that the advanced gas reactor stations are all closing earlier than planned. We heard that Dungeness went I do not want to be a party pooper, but this debate is offline seven years early. Four more stations will go about Springfields nuclear fuels. There is a lot I could offline in the next three years. Nobody is going to bet on say about all sorts of things, such as the role of hydrogen Torness and Heysham making it to 2030. The existing in the economy and whether, when the wind does not market demand for nuclear fuel production in the UK blow very well, other forms of thermal power may be all but ends before Hinkley comes on stream. That is needed. However, we need to concentrate our minds not why it is so critical to think about and debate the future on the future of our entire nuclear programme, but on of Springfields. Springfields nuclear fuels.What is unique about Springfields nuclear fuels is that it has single-handedly held up the That is why, for me, the UK Government should entire UK nuclear programme for four or five decades have a nuclear diversification or transition policy to now. It has provided pretty much all the fuel for the help to save jobs or create new jobs as alternatives. We Magnox systems. It now provides the fuel for advanced have the North sea transition deal; why not something gas-cooled reactors, and it should hopefully be able to similar for nuclear? Communities all over the UK have provide the fuel for the new nuclear power stations financially benefited from the jobs created by nuclear, coming on stream. but they need replacement jobs. These communities The role of fuel is usually unsung, but it is crucial to need to be supported, not left behind. That is what I the whole process of nuclear power. There is a popular suggest the Government need to look at. perception, which I am sure is not shared among hon. We hear that Hinckley has created a lot of jobs, but a Members here, that using nuclear fuels means finding £22 billion project should create thousands of jobs. It is some uranium, enriching it a bit and sticking it in a pot not difficult with that level of expenditure. If we look at to make the energy. That is very far from the truth. It is the £20 billion that the Government may commit to a highly skilled operation, requiring intensely developed Sizewell, I would argue that this money could be better engineering skills, which are involved in making the spent in creating other jobs UK-wide. We are truly rods and the pellets, which must have the right specification world leading in wave and tidal energy development, and order for the particular form of nuclear reactor for and floating offshore is getting there. Why not invest in which they are being made. the future? As I said earlier, hydrogen development is There is also a whole load of ancillary activities, getting close to a commercial reality.These considerations some of which have been mentioned, such as the need to be part of that transition. reprocessing of uranium to go back into the rods. That is another very highly skilled enterprise, far from the The nuclear baseload argument is an outdated concept. perception of this being a pretty simple journeyman That was confirmed by the former chief executive of activity that anyone can do. No, not anyone can do it. the National Grid in 2015. Can the Minister confirm In the case of the UK, there is only one company that that taking these existing nuclear stations offline will can do it—Springfields nuclear fuels. We need to see not increase the risk of the lights going out? Moreover, Springfields nuclear fuels not just as part of the nuclear going forward, a report by Good Energy and the Energy landscape generally, but as a vital national strategically System Catapult has demonstrated that net zero can be important component of whatever our nuclear programme achieved without the need for new nuclear. I suggest was and whatever it will be. that the Minister needs to look at that. It should be a cause of enormous alarm for hon. Although we hear about renewables and fluctuations, Members if there are suggestions that somehow this large-scale nuclear is inflexible. Indeed, having more strategically important national asset will either be large-scale nuclear in tandem with renewables is a problem. downgraded or lost in the not too distant future. There That is why we have the constraint payments for renewables is a very real prospect of that because, as hon. Members as well. I refute the arguments about baseload and have said, despite its crucial and honourable history energy security. I am not sure that the future is therefore backing up the nuclear industry in the way that it has, it nuclear, in the way that we keep hearing, because that is finding it difficult to get contracts for the continuation argument has not held up to date. I ask the Government of its excellent production activities. I think there was to revisit their strategy, please support these communities some work recently for the Norwegian nuclear corporations, around the UK, and look at diversification and a fair but there is a real gap in what is coming up—what we transition. know will be an important requirement, particularly of 53WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 54WH

Hinkley C and certainly of Sizewell C when they eventually When looking at the nuclear sector deal that was come on stream. There is a substantial gap between that signed in 2018, I was interested by this statement from time and now. There is a real prospect, therefore, of that the Government on securing fuel capabilities: company—which is owned by Westinghouse, a private “We will work with the UK nuclear fuel industry to ensure US company with no great feeling for UK national continued, commercial operation of their facilities and secure the strategic interests—dying, not for lack of praise but for long-term future of these important UK strategic national assets lack of an immediate future between new nuclear and to deliver future energy security as well as ensuring the UK modular nuclear reactors coming on and where we nuclear fuel industry continues to deliver long-term UK economic stand now. benefit”. That is what they committed themselves to in the nuclear sector deal. However, as far as I know, nothing has yet Alan Brown: What kind of timescale does the hon. been done about that. Gentleman envisage for small modular reactors or even Therefore, my first question to Government is: does Sizewell C coming on stream? the Minister intend that that nuclear sector deal commitment will actually be carried out? Are the Dr Whitehead: The hon. Gentleman himself mentioned Government looking seriously at ways in which Springfields that Hinkley C is coming on stream in 2026—maybe nuclear fuels can be properly supported during this even later than that. I will come to the arrival of period of its existence and assured of remaining in Sizewell C in a moment, which is probably at the heart existence as we move to whatever the next stage of our of his questions, should we develop modular nuclear UK nuclear programme is? reactors that are even further off. My second issue is also important. Are the Government serious about moving on the programme for the already existing nuclear facilities and bringing in arrangements Sir Mark Hendrick: When does my hon. Friend think to give greater certainty on the development of Sizewell that carbon capture and storage will be done at any C? I refer to what hon. Members have also mentioned significant scale in this country? this afternoon: the regulated asset base arrangement or similar. If the Government do not like that arrangement, Dr Whitehead: I try to set myself a self-denying an alternative could give certainty to the development ordinance of not straying too far into wider issues such of Sizewell C in the next period. As I am sure the as firm power, but I would say that carbon capture and Minister knows, there is a row going on between storage is very well developed already, and is up and Departments about whether the regulated asset base running. I have actually been to see a carbon capture should be introduced for Sizewell C. That needs resolving. and storage plant operating at full scale in Canada. Something needs to come out shortly to get that programme under way.That is also relevant to the future of Springfields However, it is not a question of whether carbon nuclear fuels in the way I have described it this afternoon. capture and storage can actually do the work, and it is not that the technology has not been developed to make I have two direct questions for the Minister, both carbon capture and storage perform the entire chain of relating to the future of Springfields nuclear fuels, which activities—sequestration, storage, transport, and so on. we want to see secured. We want to make sure that the It can do all those well and at scale; that has already Government play a full role in securing that future, so been proven. It is a question of how quickly we can that we can say that that national asset is in good shape develop carbon capture and storage and put it into and in good hands. In passing, there is a question mark operations, so that it works from the day they start, with about the future ownership of Springfields nuclear fuels. carbon capture and storage on the back of them, rather As a national asset, perhaps it should be a Government than developing operations that are carbon capture and agency, so that we can secure its activities for the future storage-ready, but where carbon capture and storage is in a way that befits its importance to the country. not on the back of that process. That is really a question Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): If the Minister could of planning and investment, more than anything else, allow a minute at the end for the mover of the motion to but it needs to be done in the right place at the right comment, that would be helpful. time. That is the end of my diversion. The issue for Springfields nuclear fuel, therefore, is 3.47 pm that there is clearly a substantial valley of death before The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, what Springfields can reasonably expect for its work for Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway): It is the future. If we leave it at that, it is inevitable that, even a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, if it eventually survives that gap and comes through Mr Betts. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde well in the end, that may well be at the cost of all the (Mark Menzies) for securing today’s really important skills in that organisation and most of the workforce; debate and my parliamentary colleagues for expressing and, at a time when Springfields’ services absolutely will their support for the UK’s nuclear sector and future. be required in the national interest, its ability to spring I will start by reaffirming the strategic importance of back may well have expired in the meantime. maintaining our sovereign fuel manufacturing capability, As a country, we cannot let that happen. I therefore as set out in the 2018 nuclear sector deal. As many hon. congratulate the unions, Prospect and Unite, for Members have said, the UK is a world leader in the campaigning strongly for that view of Springfields as a nuclear fuel cycle, which is a testament to the highly company. It is beholden on the Government to take that skilled workforce currently employed at the Springfields view as seriously as the workforce do—and, I think, all and Capenhurst sites and in the wider UK supply chain. of us in this Chamber do—in their responses and Maintaining and developing that skilled workforce will reactions to this particular issue. be critical to delivering our net zero ambitions. I welcome 55WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 56WH

[Amanda Solloway] for use in small and advanced modular reactors. The programme has been delivered at the National Nuclear the Westinghouse launch of the clean energy technology Laboratory facility located on the Springfields site in park last year. Such commercial ventures support the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for collaboration and low-carbon research. Development Fylde. and business are central to the UK’s transition to net I will also touch on the Government’s levelling-up zero. I am aware of the short-term challenges facing the agenda. Weremain committed to addressing the economic Springfields site as the UK’s advanced gas-cooled reactor disparities across the whole of the United Kingdom. fleet retires. However, as we look forward to the 2030s, I The civil nuclear supply chain is playing an important agree with my hon. Friend that the site could and role, currently supporting over 59,000 jobs across the should have a bright future. That leads me to the United Kingdom in the areas where high-skilled, high-value Government’s commitment to nuclear power. jobs are needed most, including, for example, in the The 2020 energy White Paper sets out our vision for north of England and north Wales. As we develop the the transformation of our energy system, continuing to next generation of nuclear technologies, with the emphasis break the dependency on fossil fuels and moving homes on high-quality manufacturing, I agree with the hon. and businesses to clean energy solutions. We have not Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) that it would be yet made the full transition away from coal, let alone excellent if the skilled workforce in Northern Ireland decarbonised our energy system, but “The Ten Point could play a part in that process. Plan for a Green Industrial Revolution” highlighted the I was delighted to hear that nearly 2,000 apprenticeships key role of nuclear power in delivering the deep have been delivered on the Springfields site over the last decarbonisation of our electricity system alongside 70 years. These kinds of training opportunities benefit renewables and other technologies. not just the site and its workforce but the surrounding This is an exciting time for the nuclear industry. This communities. Westinghouse and Springfields Fuels Ltd Government are clear that nuclear has an important should be proud of their impressive achievement. role to play in decarbonising the electricity system, and We keenly anticipate the outputs of the trial of the in meeting carbon budget 6 and net zero targets. In the advanced nuclear skills and innovation campus at the energy White Paper and “The Ten Point Plan for a Springfields site, which the hon. Member for Preston Green Industrial Revolution”, this Government committed (Sir Mark Hendrick) drew attention to. We hope to see to advancing large, small and advanced nuclear projects the successful collaboration between industry, academia as part of our future low-carbon energy mix, heralding and the National Nuclear Laboratory to support skills what my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde called a development. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton golden age of new nuclear across the regions and nations West (Chris Green) rightly pointed out, the objective of the UK, thereby contributing to the levelling-up should be to create careers, not just jobs. agenda. As previously mentioned, the Government recognise That includes at least one large-scale nuclear project, the importance of maintaining and developing a strong and in December 2020 we announced that negotiations nuclear skills base in the United Kingdom. I am aware with EDF on Sizewell C had begun. Those negotiations of the plans for redundancies on the Springfields site are already well under way. Moreover, as the Secretary this year. My Department has been working with of State has said in the House, we will bring forward Westinghouse, the National Nuclear Laboratory and legislation in this Parliament that will further commit the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority to explore us to creating more nuclear power in this country. opportunities to support the workforce on the Springfields Alan Brown: What does the Minister think is a realistic site. We will also continue to encourage vendors and timescale for our Government agreeing a deal with developers to maximise their UK supply chain content, EDF on Sizewell C? including fuel, wherever that is possible, in order to support the economic growth of the UK nuclear sector’s Amanda Solloway: I thank the hon. Gentleman for supply chain. his question, and I will come on to that issue later. Finally, I will reflect once more on the strategic As my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard importance of our sovereign fuel manufacturing capability Graham) noted, nuclear could have a role in beyond and on the ability of the United Kingdom, as my hon. grid applications such as low-carbon hydrogen production. Friend the Member for Bolton West reminded us, to Last month, we published the UK’s first ever hydrogen provide cost-effective support to reduce our reliance on strategy, confirming our support for low-carbon hydrogen imports, which may have a bigger carbon footprint. production across the United Kingdom. In addition, we This Government would like to see the UK continuing have announced up to £385 million in the advanced to pioneer nuclear technologies in the lead-up to net nuclear fund to invest in the next generation of nuclear zero. Our success will be underpinned by the capacity of technologies, with an ambition to employ small modular our civil nuclear supply chain, including fuel manufacture. reactors and to develop an advanced modular reactor We are already considering, along with operators, fuel demonstrator as early as the 2030s. producers and the research and development community, I also recognise the importance of developing our how best to meet the needs of future nuclear power fuel-manufacturing capabilities to support these ambitions. stations, including the opportunities provided by small My Department, in co-operation with the National and advanced modular reactors. Nuclear Laboratory, has delivered a £46 million advanced We also continue to work closely with our nuclear fuel cycle programme, aiming to develop world-leading fuel industry and trade unions via the nuclear fuel skills and capabilities in advanced fuels and recycling. working group, as noted by my hon. Friend the Member Recently, we announced a short extension to the for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), programme, which will focus on advanced nuclear fuels to explore ways to secure the industry’s future. Those 57WH Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 58WH discussions are wide ranging, and I understand that Affordable Housing in the South-West EDF and Framatome are actively involved. Further Government support is under review as a part of the 3.59 pm spending review. Further communications on the subject Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Before we start the can be expected following the settlement. debate, I have to advise Members, in line with In the meantime, the nuclear fuel working group that recommendations from the Government guidance and we have set up will meet again this month and, as my that of the House of Commons Commission, that they hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and are encouraged to wear masks when they are not speaking Cleveleys said, it is important that we continue the and to give proper space to each other when seated or dialogue and make sure that opportunities and ideas leaving the Chamber; that Members’ notes should be are given proper consideration. My right hon. Friend passed to Hansard by email; and that officials should the Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth is communicate with Ministers electronically. That is the taking a very active interest in this important issue. advice that I have to give, so I have given it. The Government have made a clear commitment to Before I invite David Warburton to move the motion, nuclear as part of our future low-carbon energy mix. are any other Members intending to speak in the debate? The UK’s success in achieving our net zero ambitions No? Obviously,Members can intervene,if their intervention will be underpinned by the critical work carried out in is taken, but they can speak only with the mover’s the civil nuclear supply chain. We will continue to work permission. with the nuclear industry to maintain our sovereign capability and the benefits that it brings for the local 4 pm workforce and surrounding communities. David Warburton (Somerton and Frome) (Con): I beg to move, 3.56 pm That this House has considered the supply of affordable, good Mark Menzies: I begin by thanking you, Mr Betts, quality housing in the South West. for the way in which you have chaired today’s very It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, important debate. I also thank colleagues on both sides Mr Betts. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the of the House for the very constructive way in which Minister, and indeed to Members from the south-west, they have contributed to today’s debate, particularly the for being here for this important and timely debate. I hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick), my would also like to put on the record my thanks to the hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and House staff for making this debate possible on the very Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), the hon. Member for Strangford first day of our welcome return to Westminster Hall (Jim Shannon), my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton proceedings. West (Chris Green) and for Gloucester (Richard Graham), I have been contacted by many constituents, across a and of course both Opposition spokespeople for their kaleidoscope of different jobs and situations, who are very important contributions. struggling to get on to the housing ladder. I hope that I thank the Minister for her very thoughtful reply to this debate will show the extent to which good quality, today’sdebate. There are many audiences who are listening. affordable housing is needed in the south-west, and that There are investors who are looking potentially to invest we will be able to highlight some practical solutions for in the UK, and they will take some heart from what she addressing this issue. Of course, it is particularly important has said. There is the workforce and the trade unions, at the moment, when the pandemic has hit people’s which are concerned about their jobs, and they will have finances and house prices are rising quickly: house heard a clear commitment from the Minister and the prices in the south-west have risen by an average 8.4% in Government to work in a constructive way to secure a the past year. The pandemic has led to an explosion in future for Springfields and invest in the next generation home working, which itself has accelerated the flight of nuclear reactors, which obviously will be fuelled in from cities to rural areas as homeowners rethink their the UK. There are also those who are involved in the lifestyles. Some areas in my constituency have seen nuclear working group, and of course EDF are key house prices rise by more than 20%, so far too many partners in that. people, especially young people, have little chance of I encourage all parties to work, in the days and weeks owning their own home, and the supply of truly affordable ahead, in a constructive way, with one mission: what do homes is just not sufficient to meet that demand. we have to do to secure jobs and skills at Springfields, I believe that everybody deserves a place to call their and what do we have to do to get key decisions taken in own: a place for families to raise children, and for a timely way to secure that plant’s future and ensure people to build lives. As such, I very much welcome the that we have the bright nuclear future that all of us are efforts of this Government, and the success of Homes confident that we can have? England, in trying to make home ownership more accessible Next week is nuclear week in Parliament, and there to more people. At the last election, we pledged to level will be many events throughout the course of the week. up every part of the United Kingdom through investment We have got that off to a fabulous start today. We have in infrastructure, skills and jobs, and by reducing health certainly made the case for Springfields, but the work inequalities. There has been some great progress so far, will continue. but there is still much more to do, especially when it comes to housing in the rural south-west. I stood on a Question put and agreed to. manifesto that committed us to building at least 1 million Resolved, more homes over the course of this Parliament, and in That this House has considered continued nuclear fuel Somerton and Frome, house building will be critical to manufacturing in the UK. the long-term recovery from the pandemic and addressing the generational gap in home ownership. 59WH Affordable Housing in the South-West7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Affordable Housing in the South-West 60WH

Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): I There is general agreement that we need more homes, congratulate my hon. Friend on having secured this but there is less agreement, both in politics and in the important and timely debate. Over many years there has housing industry, about how best to achieve that step been an incredible increase in demand for housing in change. I believe that there are three key areas where the the south-west, including, I am sure, in his constituency. Government and industry can work together to meet Does he share my view that it is impossible to build housing need. The first is public sector land reform. enough houses to meet the demand, and that we have to Priority for public land sales should change from take other measures to intervene in the market to manage maximising cash to the provision of public housing. the demand for houses as well as the supply? Secondly, we must adequately invest in building new affordable and sustainable homes where they are needed, David Warburton: My hon. Friend makes a tremendously creating jobs across construction and the supply chain apposite point. It is a very good point indeed. The and building the confidence of consumers, investors answer is yes, we do: the demand is such that the and developers. The recent £8.6 billion funding allocation supply is always going to be vastly outstripped by it, so from the affordable homes programme is a good start, we need to look at other measures. I hope that when the but it does not cover the long-term funding gap and the planning Bill comes forward, it will help us towards that structural barriers that have to be addressed. route and show that there are other opportunities out Thirdly, there needs to be greater flexibility in the there. delivery of affordable homes. The most effective way to The region’s job market has been among the worst hit do that would be for the Government to allow developers by the pandemic, sitting alongside the rocketing house to decide what tenure their homes should be on completion prices that I have mentioned, with affordability only of a property so that we generate solutions that respond expectedtoworsen.Thatmeansovercrowding,homelessness to the latest local need and allow the building of the and a generation of young people unable to move out of right homes to continue in all economic conditions. their parents’ home or live near their workplace. Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate. Does he agree that in Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): I coastal constituencies such as mine, it is about not just congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this very important building homes but the people living in those homes? At and timely debate. Does he agree that part of the least one in five new properties becomes an Airbnb or a problem is that there seems to be a culture of Members second home, and we are increasingly looking at ghost of Parliament across the House instinctively opposing towns in the winter. We need to address that in the planning applications for new homes? It seems to be in planning Bill. the DNA of some of them. In fact, we should get excited, especially as Conservatives, and be enthusiastic David Warburton: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. about the opportunity, aspiration and hope that a new The growth of second homes that are rented out and do home provides. Obviously, we have a very great social not become family homes is a problem throughout the need. south-west. That is precisely the opposite of what we require, so I could not agree more. David Warburton: My hon. Friend makes a tremendously I hope that the reforms in the forthcoming planning good point. It is important that planning applications Bill will have a significant impact on that and much else, are seen in the round. As I will go on to describe, we and a positive one on housing delivery. There is anxiety need to maintain the beauty and special qualities of our in rural Somerset, where we suffer from predatory rural towns and villages, while at the same time providing applications by developers. Our current planning system the homes that people so badly need. has too much bureaucracy and too little engagement In 2019-20, the total housing stock in England increased with local communities, and too much advantage is by about 244,000 homes. The number of new homes given to large property developers to the detriment of each year has indeed been growing for several years, but local businesses and our town and village communities. still not quickly enough to meet the demand. Estimates The way to address the housing shortage is through put the number of new homes needed at up to 345,000 per developing brownfield sites and easing the process year. That means 42,000 new homes are needed each determining change of use designations, rather than year in the south-west alone, and yet we are building through giving an automatic zoned presumption in fewer than half the homes required to plug the gap. We favour and removing mechanisms for democratic oversight. must do more, not only to match supply to demand There also needs to be greater clarity in the three land but crucially to ensure that new homes are genuinely categories, with stronger safeguards against unwanted affordable and built where they are needed most—and, development. The permission in principle approach yes, that does mean protecting our rural villages from must be improved, with a final say from our local overdevelopment. planning authorities, to protect our communities. I look As Mrs Thatcher said, borrowing the words of the forward to the Bill being published and will look at it Scottish Unionist Noel Skelton, Britain should be a closely, because at the heart of planning are the homes “property-owning democracy”. Back in the 1960s, when we live in, the schools for our children and the protection the Government were building more than 300,000 new of our countryside. houses a year, that ambition was achievable, but the This debate is about the entire south-west region, but same is not true today. Annual supply needs to increase across most of Somerset there is a particular and urgent by a further 23% by the mid-2020s to meet the issue preventing almost all new housing delivery.Somerset Government’s own housing target, and by another 39% to is in the midst of a phosphate neutrality crisis, which is reach the National Housing Federation’srecommendations. preventing housing development and creating a significant 61WH Affordable Housing in the South-West7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Affordable Housing in the South-West 62WH backlog. This issue, which relates to the protection of homes in that time, including 382,000 affordable homes the Somerset moors and levels under the Ramsar for rent, of which 149,000 are homes for social rent. In convention, is costing the Somerset economy millions the south-west, an area that my colleagues know well, of pounds and derailing house building in our county. we have delivered over 83,000 new affordable homes, However, it is also of broader national importance, with including 25,800 affordable homes for ownership and nutrient issues affecting 34 local authorities in England, nearly 55,000 affordable homes for rent, so we are delaying the construction of 30,000 to 40,000 homes at committed to driving up affordable home ownership. the last count. We all know that the housing sector is a bellwether in The publication of a phosphorous budget calculator, our country for our economy and growth. That is why which has been approved by Natural England, is a we have done all we can to keep the industry, more than positive step, but the issue very much still rumbles on. any other sector, open and active during the pandemic. In the short term, it looks as though Somerset would It is also why we are investing £12 billion in affordable benefit from the development of a phosphorous trading housing—the largest investment since 2010—and that auction platform, like that being trialled for nitrates in includes £11.5 billion in our affordable homes programme, the Solent, to give small and medium-sized developers a which will deliver, economic conditions permitting, mechanism to provide mitigation. I know that efforts in 180,000 new homes across the country. Approximately this area are already under way, but providing mitigation half of those will be for affordable home ownership, typically involves nature-based projects that take land supporting aspirant homeowners, as my hon. Friend from agricultural production. This land-hungry approach the Member for Somerton and Frome made clear should would negatively impact the farming industry and be be a Government priority. It will also double the number slow to become operational. In Somerset, for example, of social rented homes, with around 32,000 supplied the construction of a colossal 630 hectares of wetland through this programme. would be needed to offset the 11,000 homes currently delayed across the four affected local authorities. It can We have already made significant progress with the take at least three years to construct an established programme. Just last week we announced the first wetland and assess its effectiveness before anyone would allocations for strategic partnerships under the programme, be able to move into their new homes, creating more committing around £8.5 billion to boost home ownership delay and worsening the local housing crisis. and build homes that the country needs, including more It appears that the more expedient solution is rapid social and affordable rental homes. In the south-west we capital investment in sewage treatment works to capture are placing more than £1 billion—one of the largest nutrients closer to the source before they enter our allocations—to deliver 17,500 new affordable homes watercourses and reducing the mitigation required for across the region. We are confident that that investment new developments.I would ask the Minister to work closely will support our determination, not just to build more with his colleagues in the Department for Environment, homes but build more homes of the right type in the Food and Rural Affairs, as I am sure he is doing, to find right places for local people. a solution to this problem as a matter of urgency. We know that in the end that it is not just about The south-west has suffered from a historical fiscal supply, it is about quality. Most of us want to live in concentration on London and the south-east, alongside strong communities, with a unique character, heritage soaring house prices, so if we are to rebalance our and culture, that is reflected in the buildings, streets, economy and properly level up, investment in genuinely neighbourhoods, parks and places in which we pass our affordable housing will be key. I am ready to work with daily lives. The national planning policy framework has groups such as Homes for the South West, a coalition of been amended to make it easier for residents and planners the south-west’s largest housing associations, to help to to embrace beautiful, practical design, while rejecting facilitate that and generate not just new homes but the the ugly, unsustainable and that of poor quality. jobs and investment that our region and communities An expectation has been set that all councils should need so urgently. develop a local design code—an illustrated design guide that sets the standard for a local area—with input from 4.13 pm local people. We have published a national model design The Minister for Housing (Christopher Pincher): It is code, a toolkit to empower councils and local people to a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, set these standards. In addition to the changes that Mr Betts; we normally meet in other circumstances— Government are making to improve design quality in equally pleasurable, I may say. I congratulate my hon. the current planning system, we believe design performs Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David a key component of the fundamental changes that we Warburton), who is a determined and doughty campaigner have set out in the “Planning for the Future” White for his constituents, on securing this debate and on Paper. I will say a little more about that in a moment. seeing so many colleagues here from the south-west, We are also committed to improving the energy including my hon. Friends the Members for Filton and performance of all properties, not just new build, not Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti), for St Austell and Newquay only because it will help us achieve our ambitions to (Steve Double) and for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), reduce emissions as well as reduce fuel poverty, but as well as an interloper from Oxfordshire, my hon. because warm homes mean healthier homes. The data Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell), who is published by the English housing survey on the condition never knowingly under-represented. It is very good to and the energy efficiency of homes show a marked see them all here in this important debate. increase in the energy performance certificate ratings of The Government are committed to increasing the houses across England over the past 10 years, reflecting supply of affordable housing. We have been doing that the continuous improvement of energy efficiency across since 2010. Wehave delivered some 542,000 new affordable our housing stock. 63WH Affordable Housing in the South-West7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Affordable Housing in the South-West 64WH

[Christopher Pincher] based on the needs of their local communities. We will deliver 1,500 First Homes via a nationwide pilot, the Since 2009, the percentage of homes with an energy first of which will be available towards the end of this performance certificate rating of C or higher in the year. Beyond that, we have introduced an expectation south-west has nearly doubled. That is a success of that a minimum of 25% of all affordable homes secured which we can be truly proud. From 2025, homes built to through developer contributions should be First Homes. the future homes standard will be expected to have at That will deliver at scale 10,000 new first homes every least 75% lower carbon emissions and be zero-carbon year for local people to benefit from. We have also ready, without the need for expensive retrofitting. That introduced a new type of exception site, so that sites is no easy task, but it is vital if we are to keep up the wholly focused on delivering First Homes will be able to momentum. It will mean better quality homes, and come forward for planning permission outside local homes that are of a higher energy efficiency standard, plans. That means that in local communities where the and it will mean homes that will not have to be changed ability to buy is challenging and communities are struggling further as our electricity grid changes and improves. there will be more opportunities to purchase homes. My hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome My hon. Friend and others also raised second homes. mentioned levelling up. As we all know, that is at the We all recognise the benefits that second homes can heart of the Government’s agenda. We are committed bring to local economies. During the staycation of to raising productivity and growth in all places, increasing 2021, large parts of the south-west benefited from a lot opportunity for everyone and improving public services. of people coming to spend their money in the area, but That is why,alongside the investment through the affordable I recognise that large numbers of second homes can homes programme, the Government are investing over have an adverse effect on some areas. That is why we £400 million to support levelling up in the south-west, have introduced a series of measures to help to mitigate through the getting building fund, the future high streets those effects. In 2013, the Government removed the fund, and the towns fund. From Glastonbury to Penzance, requirement for local authorities to offer a council tax we are investing in infrastructure to improve everyday discount on second homes. Some 96% of second home life. owners are currently charged at the full rate. That In the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member means that the owners of those properties will be paying for Somerton and Frome, we are investing £800,000 in 100% council tax, contributing fully to their local the Bruton enterprise centre—I suspect that he knows communities. In 2016, the Government introduced higher this as well as I—to provide modern high-quality office rates of stamp duty land tax for those purchasing and light industrial space to help the next generation of additional properties at three percentage points above small and medium-sized enterprises to grow and thrive, the current rate, which are part of the Government’s and to give his local community jobs and income commitment to support first-time buyers. commensurate with their desire to have good homes I am very happy—in fact, keen—to discuss with that they can afford to live in. Slightly further afield, his colleagues other measures that we may sensibly employ constituents will also benefit from the Yeovil western to ensure that there are adequate homes available to corridor, which is supporting the delivery of 1,160 much- local people in such a way that we are mindful of needed homes for local people, and about 1,670 new unintended, undesirable consequences, such as the increase jobs. We want people across places to feel that they can in house prices. I am very happy to discuss those ideas get on in their lives in their local areas, and we want with colleagues. people in places such as Somerton and Frome and the My hon. Friend also raised the issue of phosphates rest of the south west to have confidence that the and asked that we work closely with DEFRA to deal Government are delivering their economic and social with the challenge of nitrates and nitrate neutrality in priorities. developing the right number of homes in the right My hon. Friend raised home ownership, and quoted places for local people to enjoy. The Under-Secretary of Noel Skelton. This Government are as committed as State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my Margaret Thatcher’s to helping to make the dream of hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca home ownership a reality. We are operating a range of Pow) and I set up a taskforce between DEFRA and the different schemes to achieve that. More than 734 households Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government have been helped to purchase homes since spring 2010 to find short, medium and long-term solutions to the by the Government-backed Help to Buy and right to problem, such as providing nutrient neutrality calculators buy schemes. We are now introducing First Homes, and better local catchment maps, provided by Natural which will be sold to first-time buyers with a discount of England, as short-term measures to help local authorities at least 30% on full market value, making deposits and plan ahead; medium-term measures, such as better waste mortgage requirements cheaper and opening up the water treatment; and longer term measures, such as dream of home ownership to more people. The discount changes in agricultural practices, to ensure that we is set in perpetuity. It is passed on to future buyers, so reduce nitrate and phosphate issues to enable us to the local community can benefit in the long term. When build the sorts of homes that we need to build. He is I say local community, I mean local community, because quite right that the issue affects significant numbers of we know that local first-time buyers find it difficult to potential planning applications, which has a negative afford homes in the areas where they want to live consequence for local authorities in terms of council and work. tax and fees forgone. It is an issue beyond the bricks and Key workers can find themselves unable to live in the mortar that people want to live in. communities they serve, so crucially with new homes I strongly share my hon. Friend’s passion for the local authorities will be able to set local connections for supply of affordable, good quality housing for his key workers through the First Homes base criteria, constituents, the south-west and the rest of the country. 65WH Affordable Housing in the South-West 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 66WH

It is a key priority for our Government. As I have said, Global Britain: Human Rights and we have made some real progress and continue to invest Climate Change in the supply of new, good quality, affordable homes, but we must not be under any illusion that our work has stopped or can stop soon. We will continue to improve 4.29 pm standards. We will continue to reform to ensure that Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members good quality, healthier homes are delivered as fast as that the guidance from the Government and the House possible as we exit the pandemic. We have an ambitious of Commons Commission is that Members should wear housing agenda that underlines our determination to masks when not speaking and give each other space build the homes that the country needs, build back both when sitting and when leaving the room. Members better, build back stronger and ensure that people in the should give their notes to Hansard by email and officials south-west and in Somerton and Frome have the homes should communicate with Ministers electronically as they want and deserve, so that they can have a great well. That is the guidance I have to pass on. We now quality of life with their friends and families. move on to the matter in hand. Question put and agreed to. 4.30 pm Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): I beg to move, That this House has considered Global Britain, human rights and climate change. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I am delighted to have secured this debate—a timely debate, given the circumstances—which will consider the interacting and integral relationship between the Government’s declared ambition for developing a global Britain, universal human rights and the ramifications of climate change, which are obviously global in their nature. I hope that today’s debate will further our shared hopes and wishes for the forthcoming COP26 summit, and that it will be a meaningful success. I think we all wish the Government well in that enterprise. More than 20 years ago, the Government proposed the idea of what was then called an ethical dimension to foreign policy, famously announced by Robin Cook. I was a Member at the time and I remember Robin Cook on the steps of the Foreign Office declaring that there would be an ethical dimension to foreign policy, I suspect, to the dismay of some of his colleagues and possibly also to some of the professionally straight-faced officials standing behind him. I hope I am not being too sceptical in saying that. That policy made it explicit that in the modern world “foreign policy is not divorced from domestic policy but a central part of any political programme.” Robin Cook said very clearly: “Our foreign policy must have an ethical dimension and must support the demands of other peoples for the democratic rights on which we insist for ourselves.” That must be the yardstick, must it not? What we would want for ourselves is what we would want for other people. Those are fine words, and I do not need to entertain the Chamber with the outcome, or perhaps the lack of outcome. Tellingly, looking at the four priorities that Robin Cook outlined, I have picked out some words that give something of a flavour. He used words such as “security”, “disarmament”, “prosperity”, “exports” and “jobs”. He talked about improving the quality of life in the UK and the quality of our environment, and as I said a moment ago, said: “Our foreign policy must have an ethical dimension”. We can see the direction of travel in his remarks. Looking at the present, with a commitment to delivering unparalleled socioeconomic change by achieving net zero by 2050, it is clear that domestic policy is, at least 67WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 68WH Climate Change Climate Change [Hywel Williams] The climate crisis has been described as the biggest threat to our survival as a species, and is already threatening rhetorically, geared towards fighting climate change. human rights around the world. Rising global temperatures Yet, the Government and UK foreign policy in general are driving unprecedented harmful effects, from drought have unfortunately undermined the climate effort, tarnishing to floods, rising sea levels to heat waves, extreme weather the UK’s international credibility and, in some instances, events and the collapse in biodiversity and all ecosystems. exacerbating rather than lessening the decarbonisation In both its scale and its devastation, climate change is challenge. the ultimate threat to the freedom and rights of human I have to concede that many other countries are kind and to our environment—they all come together. doing no better. There was a report today from the Most directly, environmental instability threatens basic Clean Air Fund that noted that between 2019 and 2020, human rights—the right to life, the right to health and Governments in the world gave 20% more in overseas the right to development. The World Health Organisation aid funding to fossil fuel projects than to programmes believes that between 2030 and 2050 alone, climate to cut air pollution, which those very projects cause. change will cause approximately 250,000 additional However, it is the Government who have delivered deaths every year. That is the scale of the effect. Those unprecedented cuts to our international aid budget. It is deaths will occur from malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea also the Government who have continued support for and heat stress—a multitude of effects with one overriding hydrocarbon projects that undermine our collective climate cause: climate change. goals, and it is the Government who have largely missed Life will be harder for millions of the most vulnerable the unique opportunity of being both the COP26 co-host people in the world, especially children. By 2040, one in and president of the G7. That challenge, which has four children—around 600 million—living in areas of largely been missed, is one of delivering leadership and extremely high water stress, will be vulnerable. The securing climate action in a decade that will make or World Bank believes that an additional 100 million break our collective future. It is, indeed, an emergency. people could be impoverished by 2030 due just to From addressing climate change to the debacle in climate change. The potential for increased migration is Afghanistan, it is quite clear that we must revisit the obvious, and our response needs to develop. In the aims and the claims of global Britain, which is in the short term, we have our strategies, debates and disputes, title of this debate. We must ask fundamental questions but we must look properly at development in-country about what the UK Government’s foreign policy priorities and in neighbouring countries. are and how they intend to deliver them. Other freedoms, including the right to self-determination Against the backdrop of the climate crisis, rather and political freedom are also threatened. It is no than sending gunboats or aircraft carriers overseas, or surprise that in some of the countries which are most securing some fairly marginal trade deals at present, the threatened by climate change there are the most despotic Government should revisit the notion of an ethical regimes and the most conflict, death and disease. human rights-based foreign policy. By beginning with such a policy framework we can capture the human Rising sea levels, which take no account of sovereignty, rights challenges posed by climate change; we can establish so prized by the Government, now affect the very responsibility and frameworks for action. We can use existence of several island countries. That is the scale of existing international law and thus promote and enable the problem. Conflict is made more likely by climate collective buy-in by the global community. It is an change, as I said a moment ago. In Syria, sustained extremely practical way to start. drought brought about by changing weather patterns is widely seen to have been a substantial contributing Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) factor to the brutal civil war there; a conflict that has (Ind): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing claimed 500,000 lives and has already led to mass this important debate.I am glad he mentioned Afghanistan, displacements and migration. I concede and congratulate because I believe it was a turning point for our thinking the Government—the previous one, at least—on the on global Britain, whatever than means. The US is huge spending that the UK made in response; there was going towards a more isolationist position, which leaves 500 million almost immediately. That is certainly a very the UK somewhat stranded. The rational course of good thing but, again, it provides an idea of the scale of action is to improve our links with Europe, especially the problem. on security and defence. Does he share my concern that I am glad that these dangers are recognised, and I the incumbents of very important Ministries in Whitehall welcome previous ministerial comments calling on countries are probably the last people to rebuild those important to ensure that climate action complies with human bridges? rights obligations. I hope that in his closing remarks the Minister will expand on these comments and detail how Hywel Williams: We are in danger of going off on the UK Government are seeking to hold countries to somewhat of a tangent, but I agree with the hon. their climate change commitments in a manner that Gentleman. As far as our party was concerned, when respects and builds on human rights, especially given the votes came in on the invasion of Afghanistan and the UK’s current status in world affairs. the military action there, I was one of the 17 who voted against. I think I am the last person standing of that It is clear that we simply cannot say any more that we group. The point that we made at the time was that we did not and do not know the consequences of our should internationalise the response to the conflict by actions, which have become abundantly clear, if we drawing in actors who were not involved in military continue to degrade the environment and pollute our action in the first place. That is a fine aim for action on atmosphere. As the UN Secretary-General has noted, climate change—drawing people in is obviously the way we are to do it, rather than sending gunboats. “on a code red for humanity”. 69WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 70WH Climate Change Climate Change Wemust act accordingly,yet I fear that the Government delegation to the Council of Europe. I will try to touch are failing to meet the challenge. Prime Ministerial on the three elements of the debate: global Britain, slogans about world-beating global Britain have not human rights and climate change. generated significant success ahead of COP26 and the I stress that the global Britain aspect of the debate UK’s performance as president of the G7 has been starts and continues with Europe. We may have left the disappointing. One such failure was the inability to European Union, but we have not left Europe. The secure a definitive ban on the use of coal by the world’s Council of Europe is an organisation of some 47 member largest economies at the G7 summit in Cornwall, and countries. It is almost twice the size of the EU and it the promise of $100 billion climate-change assistance does a tremendous amount of work. A good example of for developing countries has been largely unfulfilled. its work is the Istanbul convention, which looks after More reports abound about the isolation of the Prime the rights of women and tries to prevent domestic Minister in his own political group. His recent policies, violence. Although we have not yet ratified the convention, ranging from international aid cuts to promoting domestic it is changing the law in this country to ensure that we coal production, have gravely undermined his diplomatic can ratify it; we have signed it. The Council of Europe is efforts ahead of the summit in November. The Foreign an important organisation, of which we are a part, and Secretary yielded to the Chancellor with his savage cuts I play a particularly prominent role in it, not only as the to the UK’s aid budgets, and actual world-leading leader of the delegation but as a vice-president and, programmes crashed because of fiscal circumstances—that effectively, as a deputy speaker. was the real effect. However, as leading commentators The question of human rights is allied to the Council have noted, the Chancellor managed to increase the UK’s of Europe. Both the Foreign Secretary and I are keen defence budget, including finding money for nuclear on human rights and the Council looks after the European weapons. Court of Human Rights. That is not an EU body. It is Worryingly, the UK has pledged £720 million of owned by the Council of Europe. The countries that UK exports finance to support an offshore liquid gas have had the most cases brought against them there are project in Mozambique, at the same time as hosting Russia, Turkey and Romania, in that order. The UK COP26 and chairing the G7. Taken together with the does very well in terms of cases brought before the domestic climate-change record and continuing Back-Bench Court, and something like 92% or 93% of them are opposition to net zero commitments, the Government dismissed before they even get to a hearing before a have largely failed to present a credible climate-change judge. Our continued membership of the Council of action strategy to outside partners, which could be Europe is an important aspect of the role that we play leveraged to inspire global action at COP26. in human rights. To close, as we head into the final straits before In climate change, the Council is also playing a good COP26 in November,the UK’sdiplomatic efforts compare role. At the Council of Europe, I have supported John poorly with, for example, the French, who co-ordinated Prescott’s paper on the role of climate change in estuaries the Paris agreement. Their co-ordinated Government-wide in a cross-party effort to take it forward and to deal approach led to the global success of the Paris agreement with the elements of climate change across the board. in 2015. The French-negotiated agreement could be the On 29 September, there will be a whole-day session basis and the solution for this Government’s performance, about climate change. Speakers include a Belgian, a and the reason for that is quite obvious. Greek, a Turk, a Portuguese chap and a German chap. The 2015 Paris agreement was the first universal, We have another person from Portugal, as well as globally agreed, legally binding climate-change agreement people from Switzerland and France and, of course, explicitly to include human rights, requiring parties to myself. “respect, promote and consider” their human rights That is an important measure for us to play a part in. obligations as they address climate change. That is why After all, another member of that organisation is Russia. today I urge the Government to revisit the concept of If we can keep the pressure on Russia to follow the an ethical foreign policy, particularly after the bloody climate change agenda that we have all set, we will have events in Afghanistan, and for the Government to achieved a tremendous amount in global terms. I am become an actual green force for good. confident that we can bring Russia to heel when it The public understand and value human rights, comes to fulfilling its obligations on climate change and international law provides definitions, obligations and that we will be able to take that forward and sit back in parameters, and existing international organisations can a few years’ time and look at it with great confidence. be a guarantor. The frameworks and the opportunities to do the right thing are there. This Government just 4.50 pm need to seize them. Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab): It is a pleasure to Several hon. Members rose— serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I thank the Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): We have 24 minutes and hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) for securing seven speakers, so there will be an initial time limit of this incredibly important debate. four minutes. I ask Members to be as brief as they can. As we speak, Madagascar teeters on the brink of If Members take interventions, I will have to allow a what the United Nations has described as the world’s minute extra, which will come off somebody else’s time. first famine caused solely by climate breakdown. Four That is just the reality of the situation. years of drought have left more than 1 million people reliant on food aid, while 30,000 people in the south of 4.45 pm the island are suffering from what the World Food John Howell (Henley) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve Programme categorises as the most severe level of food under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. The title of the insecurity. Whole families are forced to survive on a debate is of interest to me as the leader of the UK desperate diet of locusts and wild plants, and the worst 71WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 72WH Climate Change Climate Change [Mick Whitley] today’s debate. Although we might not always see eye to eye, I hope he will indulge me a few minutes to draw may be yet to come. In a country that is responsible for attention to the fantastic initiatives that the at least 0.1% of all global emissions, we see most clearly Government have implemented and committed to. I the devastating potential of the climate crisis to strip will start with the steps being taken specifically to tackle people of their most fundamental rights, from the right climate change. to a livelihood, sanitation, food and housing to the We all recognise that there is work to be done, but I right to even life itself. am immensely proud of the bold actions that the Welsh The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Labour Government have taken, which have often eclipsed most recent report predicts that the humanitarian both in time and ambition the policy announcements catastrophe unfolding in Madagascar will be repeated and seemingly endless consultations undertaken by the across the globe as we barrel towards 1.5° of warming UK Government. From plans to tackle single-use plastics, above pre-industrial levels. No country will be spared including straws, stirrers, cotton buds and cutlery, to the devastating consequences of environmental meltdown, their commitment to extending the national forest to but the fallout will be felt hardest by poor countries promote landscape and sustainable tourism and support such as Madagascar, which bears the least responsibility the green economy, it is clear that the Welsh Labour for the crisis with which we are grappling. Within the Government have a vested interest in protecting our next decade alone, our planet will be rocked by rising planet for future generations. The same can be said of levels of starvation and water scarcity, escalating violence the Welsh Government’s commitment to sustainable and civil unrest, the erosion of civil liberties and democratic housing options.In 2019, the Welsh Government introduced institutions, and mass displacement on an unprecedented mandatory regulations on new housing developments scale. That is why Amnesty International, along with to help reduce flood risk and improve water quality. We many other leading human rights advocates, is so have all seen the terrifying effects that flash flooding unequivocal in its belief that the climate crisis is also a can have on communities across the UK; my own human rights crisis. community was hit by devastating flooding last February Time is fast running out to ensure that future generations and is still recovering, a year and a half on. Colleagues do not have the precious rights that we take for granted across the political divide support sustainable options, snatched away from them. If the Government are serious particularly when it comes to flood prevention, yet about global Britain being a force for good in the world, sustainable urban drainage systems are yet to be introduced they must recognise the debt that our country owes to to planning regulations in England. This is despite the the communities who exist on the frontline of environmental science showing that these systems can have a huge collapse. After all, few countries have benefited more positive impact. from the exploitation of fossil fuels and countries in the It has been said before, and I am almost certain it will global south than the UK has. That is why in November be said again, but it really is the case of where Wales the UK must lead the way with its international partners leads, England follows. I am a proud Unionist. Our and work to deliver a comprehensive and appropriately United Kingdom is at its strongest when our cultural ambitious package of support to help developing countries differences are acknowledged and celebrated, not used in decarbonising their economies and building up their to incite division. I support steps taken to sustain the resilience to extreme weather events. United Kingdom’s position on the global stage, both in We also need to improve accountability in this field. terms of upholding human rights and tackling climate Too often, giant multilaterals in western nations are change. However, I must also highlight the worrying allowed to wreak devastation on vulnerable communities impact that the UK Government’s half-baked trade with total impunity. That has to end. I want to see the deals are having across the country.This week, Foreign Secretary working towards the establishment of reported that exports of food and drink to the EU have an independent international body to assess the effects suffered a disastrous decline in the first half of the year of climate change on human rights and to hold the state due to Brexit trade barriers, with sales of beef and and private actors to account. cheese hit the hardest. Far from global Britain, we are now at risk of resembling little Britain—at best. We also need an urgent reassessment of our own Frustratingly, the same can be said of the UK practices, such as the offshoring of plastic waste abroad. Government’s tackling of modern-day slavery. A decade Finally,all of that will mean nothing without a commitment of cuts to policing has led to a situation that is regularly of support for those living with the fallout of climate reported to be out of control. In 21st-century Britain, I chaos now. The Government’s decision to do away with am shocked and appalled that the number of victims of the Department for International Development and modern slavery has been rising year on year, with over slash overseas aid spending was a cowardly abdication 10,000 people referred to the authorities in 2019. of their responsibilities, which could have life or death consequences for communities in Madagascar and across As a Member of Parliament representing an area the world who so badly need that support. If we are with a devolved Government, I am extremely passionate really serious about being a world leader in climate about sustaining Wales’s position on the global stage, action and human rights, we must urgently restore the but that does not need to come in the form of separation original target of 0.7% of GDP in overseas aid spending. from the United Kingdom. Instead, if we are to truly tackle the impact of climate change, the infringements on human rights and the myriad other issues raised here 4.54 pm today, then surely a united approach involving the Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): It is a pleasure devolved nations is the most productive way forward. to serve under your chairship today, Mr Betts. I am The UK Government can and should do better, and I grateful for the opportunity to speak and I commend look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to these the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) for securing pressing concerns. 73WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 74WH Climate Change Climate Change Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): I will leave it at four In a post-Afghanistan world, the UK must never minutes for now, but it will drop down to three minutes again return to its hard imperial roots, but instead must after the next speaker. find its soft power as one of many collaborators, not as global Britain but as Britain humbly repaying the debt we owe this planet and all who inhabit it. 4.58 pm 5 pm Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op): It is a Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): It is a pleasure to serve pleasure to serve with you in the chair, Mr Betts, and I under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I congratulate the also thank the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing for highlighting the urgent need for Government leadership, this debate. not least at a time when we see the G7 intersecting with Climate change is inherently a human rights issue. COP26. In my city of York—the only human rights From the right to housing, food, water and sanitation, city in the UK—we weave human rights together with to the right to development and cultural and political climate rights; we believe that together they deliver a rights, climate change is already damaging the rights of just agenda. countless people across the world. Human rights must The events in Afghanistan this summer have ricocheted be the principle that underpins our approach to COP26. through the Government, demanding that the Government That means making progress on the issue of loss and seriously question their priorities. The UK Government damage. Nations have been ravaged by the covid pandemic have spent around £37 billion on a war that has resulted while facing climate impacts that are causing devastation. in a shattered country, now on the edge of a humanitarian Those vulnerable communities deserve new and additional crisis due to crop failure caused by climate failure—or finance to compensate for the irretrievable non-economic should I say human failure. The country is now so loss. It also means reversing the heartless cut to foreign fragile that we fear that to talk about human rights aid, including climate finance projects. It means solidarity seems understated, since the right of humans just to with those worst affected by climate change, including exist there is the only thing we can focus on. The UK the rights of indigenous people. Collectively, indigenous has spent the equivalent of just 10% of the war’s cost on people protect about 80% of the world’s biodiversity. development aid in Afghanistan. If the balance between They manage 25% of the Earth’s land surface and a development and defence had been reversed, if we had third of the carbon stored in tropical forests. We must chosen to use our soft power to support the region listen to their voices, needs and concerns, and ensure rather than destroy it, if we had spent our time building that their rights are respected in the decision-making bridges not conflict and instead of provocation chosen process. reconciliation, what a difference we could have made. Under article 6 of the Paris agreement, countries are If we had traded in ethics and ethical goods, not arms able to sell their over-achievement of the Paris goals to and aggression, what lasting good we could have done other countries that have fallen short. That allows countries alongside others. to maximise emissions reductions without concern for The term global Britain, in itself, imposes a colonial indigenous people’s lands. It has been six years since the superiority from a nation that has over the centuries Paris agreement. This year, the UK must go further used its influence to extract wealth, resources and even than the Indigenous People’s Pavilion. It is absolutely people for its own economic advantage. When we examine vital that the UK ensures that at COP26 human rights our shameful history, we soon realise our part in driving language is put back into article 6. global destitution, climate degradation and international The Government must also get their own house in instability. Our export portfolio hardly causes us to lift order on human rights. In the year that the UK hosts our heads from this shame; trade has been at the COP26, the Government are pushing through a Bill expense of rights and the climate—not in aid of it. It that the charity Liberty describes as one of the worst has been transactional, not relational and transformational. and Arms sold to nations such as Saudi Arabia—which “most serious threats to human rights and civil liberties in recent” protect neither human rights nor the climate—are one UK history. The Bill is a thinly veiled reaction to the such example that shows that trade, rights and climate climate protests that we have seen over the past few are interwoven. years. Grassroots activism has played a critical role in We should harness a different approach—one that getting the climate emergency on the political agenda. seeks to advance equality and reparation, and economic Let us not forget that it was thanks to the right to and climate diplomacy—and lead a new dialogue on protest that there was a moratorium on fracking in peacemaking and trade justice. We should collaborate England. with others, not exert power over them. Hardwiring The climate emergency has evoked strong feelings, simple principles will demand a different emphasis on especially among young people. It is their generation our trading priorities, but will leave a more stable and that will bear its brunt. It is their generation whose equal planet. A carbon border adjustment mechanism human rights are threatened most unless we significantly or a border tax would ensure that we minimised carbon reduce emissions. Curtailing their voice and their right use through trade, instead of offshoring climate destruction to be heard before and during COP26 is simply the activity, while keeping our country clean. It would wrong thing to do. ensure that we took responsibility for substandard practices in making all the products we purchase. Fundamentally, 5.3 pm it would shift us from a consumerist approach to a Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the collaborative one that advances values and enhances hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on bringing the people and planet we interact with. this issue to the Chamber. Human rights is an absolute 75WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 76WH Climate Change Climate Change [Jim Shannon] advantage of the UK’s roles, both as co-hosts of COP26 and as current president of the G7, to secure definitive passion of mine, and the most fundamental right is the climate action ahead of November. right to life. The right to life and quality of life are Equally worrying is our relative failure compared to impacted by the environment and increasingly by the efforts of the French Government in 2015 to secure environmental change.This is not a phenomenon impacting conclusive global engagement, or even to mobilise a the third world alone, although we all agree that the common cross-Government approach to the upcoming impact of climate change is devastating in the extreme. summit. “GB: Global Britain”, as a slogan, has frankly Nations are suffering droughts or floods, and just a few failed to mean anything tangible in Whitehall, let alone weeks ago Texas experienced dire shifts in their cold to our partners abroad. Alliteration is not the same snap that saw a loss of life and a cost of $21 billion. thing as action. The problem is caused by us all, and therefore the However, I would like my remarks today to focus on remedy must be from us all—those in this Chamber, the broader issue of migration and displacement that is those in this place and those outside this place. I believe attributable to climate change, as referred to by my hon. in a sovereign God. I believe that He knows the end Friend. That is, of course, an issue that is real and from the beginning, that our days are numbered and pressing, both here in the UK and abroad. The UN that He will call us in time with that eternal plan. Refugee Agency believes that already, due to increasing However, I also believe that He has appointed us to be intensity and frequency of extreme weather events, more good stewards of this Earth, and that when we fail in than 20 million people, on average, are being internally that duty, we reap the consequences. We have failed in displaced annually. Despite such suffering, appropriate that duty, and my granddaughters’ and grandsons’ descriptions, such as the term “climate refugee” are yet generation will reap the consequences, with extremes to receive a solid legal basis that would, following that will impact on their future quality of life. I accept accordingly, give them international protection and rights. this, but I also accept that we can still make a change. I therefore invite and would welcome a comment from We can use this change to improve the outcome, and the Minister today on the Government’s approach to that is what we must do. the rights of people displaced by climate change, and on It is clear to me that climate change and human rights how the Government will be raising this point at the are intrinsically linked, and it is right and proper that upcoming COP26 summit. our legislation reflects this view. I welcomed the Displacement due to climate change is also happening Government’scommitment to the Paris climate agreement here, in the UK. In my constituency lies Fairbourne, in 2015, and I believe that we must do better to fulfil our and the UK’s first community facing decommissioning. commitments to that agreement. That is one reason These are people who do not know where their homes why I was shocked and upset to learn that the Government will be, and what the value of their community is, per se. were reducing overseas development aid from 0.7% to Will they be kept together? How will the infrastructure 0.5% of national income. That, too, has an impact on be dealt with, and what remains of that community? how we battle climate change and fulfil our obligations. What are the rights of these people? All of the legislation Respectfully, I will use this opportunity to again request that we have in place overrides their rights. Until we that the Minister understand that the Government cannot know what their rights are here, it is difficult for us to come close to honouring our word without honouring talk about those abroad. They have been left in limbo, this commitment. I know that the Minister is an honourable by both the UK and the Welsh Government, and by our man—I am not saying that he is not—but we really wider modern economy and social safety net. Their must deliver that. plight demonstrates that if we, even as one of the I support the calls by my colleagues who have spoken— world’s wealthiest nations, cannot properly respect and and the hon. Lady who will follow me—for less talk and look after our own, we cannot expect developing nations, more action. We are calling for our obligations to be who will be more affected by climate change than the fulfilled and not reprioritised, and for us to do what we UK, to do so? can to leave this world better than we found it. What a To close, I hope that the Minister and the Government responsibility we have, as MPs in this House, to do just will take on board my hon. Friend’s call for an ethical, that and deliver. I understand that we need China, India human rights-based foreign policy that acknowledges and so many other nations to buy in, but their excuses the importance of international law,the role of international do not excuse us from doing what we need to do. I ask institutions, and the inviolability of human rights, both the Government to increase international aid, recognise here and abroad. the firm link between our environmental and humanitarian obligations, and do what we can, now, in this House, in Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): We now move on to the Westminster Hall today, through our Minister, to effect Front Benches: five minutes for the SNP, five minutes positive change. for the Opposition, and 10 minutes for the Minister.

5.6 pm 5.9 pm Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Diolch yn fawr, Llefarydd. It is an honour to follow the hon. Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP): It is a pleasure to Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). First, I thank serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) for securing for securing this debate, and for his welcome remarks this hugely important debate. on the need to move to an inclusive global human Let me begin by saying one thing about which there is rights-orientated foreign policy approach. He rightly no doubt—we are living through and experiencing the draws attention to this Government’s failure to take full beginning of a climate emergency. The effects of global 77WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 78WH Climate Change Climate Change climate change, which scientists have predicted for the climate change. For example, in May the COP26 President past three decades and more, are happening now. July visited Indonesia and called on others to move forward was the hottest month on record and across the world with plans to reach net zero. Yet just weeks later, the we witnessed extreme weather events: deadly wildfires same UK Government cancelled a highly effective spread across Europe and north America, and devastating green growth programme that was designed to prevent flooding caused chaos in Germany and China. Those deforestation in Indonesia. Similarly, in Malawi the are but a few examples. Promoting Sustainable Partnerships for Empowered Last month’s IPCC report was damning, with the Resilience, or PROSPER, project, which focuses on UN Secretary General António Guterres describing the training farmers in climate-smart and adaptive agricultural situation as practices, has been cancelled by this Tory Government, “code red for humanity”. halfway through its implementation. That not only If emissions continue at their current rate, global breaks trust with those communities but sends a message temperatures will rise more than 1.5 °C above pre-industrial to those countries yet to determine their contribution to levels by 2050. There is still time to stop that from the Paris agreement that the host of COP26 does not happening, but emissions must be cut dramatically by take its obligations on climate change seriously. Frankly, the end of this decade and not a moment later. As we it does not care. approach COP26 in November, the UK Government Global Britain, if it is to mean anything, should be must lead from the front, ensuring that new and ambitious about listening to and supporting these marginalised targets are agreed on to avert this unfolding climate communities in tackling this climate emergency, and disaster. not about cutting their funding and shutting them out. Sustainable development goal 13 calls for Tragically, with just over 50 days until COP26, those “urgent action to combat climate change”. communities will not have their voices heard, as vaccine Without that, the devastating consequences of climate inequity means they cannot attend, and once again change will undo hard-won development gains. Let decisions will be made for them, rather than with them, there be no doubt: the poor and the wealthy are not a further indication that so-called global Britain is, affected equally by climate change, and that is true of under the Tories, nothing but a poor and nasty little nations as well as individuals. The cruel reality is that Britain. despite the world’spoorest and most vulnerable contributing Finally, in the last Westminster Hall debate that I the least to climate change, they are most at risk from its attended in person, I called on the UK Government to negative effects and the least equipped to withstand and follow the Scottish Government’s lead in placing human adapt to it. rights at the centre of their climate justice fund response Oxfam has calculated that the richest 10% of the and to establish a climate justice fund. Since then, the world’s population were responsible for more than half Scottish Government have doubled their world-leading of the cumulative emissions between 1990 and 2015. fund to £24 million over four years, in stark contrast to The wealthiest 1% were responsible for the emission of the UK Government, I would like to hear from the Minister today whether he is willing to initiate such a more than twice as much CO2 as the poorer half of the world combined, which is something for all of us to fund now. consider and reflect upon. The climate crisis disproportionately affects individuals 5.14 pm and groups who are already marginalised as a result of structural inequalities. The World Bank has predicted (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ that climate change will push over 130 million people Co-op): It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, into poverty in the next 10 years. Additionally, the Mr Betts. I thank the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel World Health Organisation predicts that climate change Williams) for securing this important debate—diolch will cause a quarter of a million additional deaths a yn fawr iawn—which is, as has been said, appropriately year through malaria, malnutrition, diarrhoea and heat timed, following some of the worst years of environmental stress. catastrophes and the unequivocal evidence from the IPCC ahead of the crucial COP meeting. The hon. Climate change fundamentally impacts human rights— Gentleman will know how seriously the Welsh Government the right to life, to food, to water and sanitation, to take these issues and how they are incorporating them health and to housing, among many others. It exacerbates at the heart of their policies. inequalities between the poor and the wealthy, between ethnicities, between genders and between generations. Let us remind ourselves of the two key facts in the Climate change is a human rights crisis. IPCC report. The last decade was hotter than any We know that the G20 countries are responsible for period in the last 125,000 years, and scientists can now almost 80% of global annual emissions. Net zero emission link specific weather events to human-made climate targets by 2050 are, frankly, too little, too late. Wealthier change. countries must take the lead by decarbonising more I commend the speeches made by a range of hon. quickly. Before, during and after COP26, a human Members, in particular my hon. Friends the Members rights-focused approach is essential to tackle the climate for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley), for Pontypridd (Alex crisis and to secure a just transition. Davies-Jones) and for York Central (Rachael Maskell). Sadly,at a time when we need international co-operation There was also a typically passionate speech from the to tackle climate change, those who lead us in the UK hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). Government espouse an empty slogan of “global Britain” Human rights were rightly referenced in the 2015 that goes against just that. As warned, the decision to Paris agreement, because the fortunes of all aspects of slash the aid budget is fundamentally undermining the life, including that of humanity, are inevitably intertwined UK’sefforts to show any leadership in tackling international with the functioning of ecosystems on this small blue 79WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 80WH Climate Change Climate Change [Stephen Doughty] lead to crises often mean girls dropping out of school to help their families to engage in the daily search for dot, whether that is access to food and land or to water drinking water, as well as other aspects such as forced and sanitation, or the prospects of women and girls, marriage. right through to the implications of conflict driven by In the face of the climate emergency and the impacts climate change. In 2015, the UN Environment Programme that we have heard about in powerful speeches today, it executive director described climate change as one of is deeply disappointing that the FCDO has been cutting the greatest threats to human rights in a generation. If its support for key programmes as part of the official global Britain is to mean anything—we have seen the development assistance cuts. That has been criticised by concept starkly drawn into question in recent weeks—we the director of the International Institute for Environment have to ensure that climate sustainability is at the heart and Development, not just for the cuts themselves but of all of our international policies, from trade, through for the impact they will have on our diplomatic position business and development assistance, to our defence at the COP conference. Here are two examples: the and our diplomacy. That is why it was so disappointing Plastic Pollution Free Galapagos programme and the to see such little reference to it in the recent Foreign, Green Economic Growth programme in Papua, which Commonwealth and Development Office human rights had been described as highly effective, have been cut. report. That is absolutely absurd. Will the Minister set out how I have just a few examples from recent weeks—we much of the cuts to ODA has hit programmes with have heard many today. Just a few weeks ago, Haiti climate change as a key or majority component? Conversely, endured another devastating earthquake, and on top of how much funding is still going into fossil fuel projects, that, the impact of a hit from Tropical Storm Grace. directly or via other agencies? Thirteen thousand Rohingya refugees were forced to The Government have yet to come forward with how relocate after intense rainfall and landslides in Bangladesh. they will allocate or spend the £11.6 billion that has Weheard from my hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead been promised. Can the Minister give us some details? about the situation in Madagascar and potentially one How will that be scheduled over the next few years? of the first climate famines, with families forced to What discussions has the Minister been having with the survive on eating a handful of insects. In Ethiopia and Home Office and other colleagues about the implications South Sudan—we will discuss the situation in Tigray on migration changes and refugee flows as a result of tomorrow—hundreds of thousands face starvation, with climate change? the implications of climate change coming on top of The Labour party would put human rights at the conflict in the region. heart of our foreign policy, and climate change at the Climate change not only physically threatens lives, heart of all our policies. As has been said, those two but potentially unwinds decades of progress in other things are absolutely intertwined. We would seek the areas, such as education, infrastructure, access to clean action needed to tackle them. water, food, sanitation and healthcare. Five hundred million people rely on ecosystem services worldwide as Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Will the Minister please a source of income and to put food on their tables. The allow the Member who tabled the debate a minute to total number of people affected by natural disasters make some final remarks? That will be appreciated. I over the past decade has tripled to 2 billion and the call the Minister. WHO speaks of the impact on infectious diseases and an additional 250,000 deaths. 5.20 pm For some countries, particularly small island states, sea level rises could threaten their very existence. That The Minister for Asia (Nigel Adams): I will. It is a applies in our British family, in our overseas territories. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I The British Virgin Islands experienced a devastating hit start by thanking the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel from Hurricane Irma, which cost £2.3 billion in 2017, Williams) for securing this important and wide-ranging with public schools destroyed and others rendered unusable. debate, and I thank all hon. Members for their Yet, because of Brexit, they have lost ¤7 million in contributions. I will try to respond to all the points funding from the EU global climate change alliance raised, and I note that I need to give the hon. Gentleman plus and are yet to get answers from the Government on a couple of minutes at the end of the debate. how that will be replaced. I hope the Minister can Let me begin with Afghanistan, because a number of answer that question. What role will our overseas territories hon. Members rightly mentioned it as uppermost in our and our wider family play at the upcoming COP? What minds. Incredibly brave human rights activists and project representation will they have? partners were among the 15,000 people that the UK Many hon. Members referenced migration as a result evacuated from Kabul between 15 and 29 August. The of climate change. The Internal Displacement Monitoring Foreign Secretary has led work with other countries in Centre reported that more than three times as many the region to ensure safe passage to the UK for those displacements happened in the years 2008 to 2018 as a eligible. That is our immediate priority.Wehave committed result of environmental disasters than from conflict. to resettle 20,000 Afghan nationals most at risk from Let us not forget that that is a period that includes the human rights violations and dehumanising treatment, disasters in Syria and north Africa. If what we are under the Afghan citizens’ resettlement scheme, which seeing from climate change dwarfs that, we should all be includes 5,000 in year one. deeply concerned. We are continuing to work for human rights in Climate change is of course a threat to the amazing Afghanistan. The Foreign Secretary has set out a plan progress made in the last decades on the rights of and is building an international coalition to that end. women and girls, because environmental hazards that He has been clear that holding the Taliban to account 81WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 82WH Climate Change Climate Change on human rights, particularly their respect for the rights mentioned this afternoon, as part of the Paris agreement. of women and girls and members of minority groups, The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen which hon. Members are passionate about, must be one Doughty) referred to the £11.6 billion we have committed of the four touchstone priorities for any future international to double our climate finance over the next five years. engagement. Hon. Members are right to be concerned We are doing all we can to deliver a summit that will be about the rights of women and girls under the Taliban a turning point, and we are working closely with our regime. That is why we are working to ensure that we public health officials, the Scottish Government, Glasgow have maximum moderating influence over the Taliban, City Council, the United Nations Framework Convention and to ensure that the gains of the past two decades are on Climate Change and all our partners to ensure that not lost. we have an in-person event to enable all those who need As hon. Members will recall, when the Government to to participate on an equal footing. published its integrated review in March, we put the The hon. Member for Arfon was right to speak UK’s role as a force for good in the world front and passionately about both climate change and human centre of our security, defence, development and foreign rights, as did many other hon. Members. We are alert to policy. Our work on human rights and the environment the potential for climate change to undermine the enjoyment are two areas where that is particularly evident. As part of human rights. As the hon. Member for Dundee West of the integrated review process, the Prime Minister set (Chris Law) mentioned, without action on climate change, out that in 2021 and beyond the Government will make according to the World Bank and other organisations, tackling climate change and biodiversity loss their No. 1 143 million people could be displaced by 2050. We are international priority. In the birthplace of the Magna calling on countries to ensure that any action they take Carta, with one of the world’s oldest and strongest to respond to climate change and environmental democracies, we are deeply committed to the promotion degradation complies with their human rights obligations. and protection of human rights. It is in the DNA of this It is also imperative that the actions we take globally to Government and has been of successive Governments tackle climate change will support those countries where from both sides of the House. It is not just about doing humanitarian needs are greatest. That was amplified by the right thing; it is evident that climate change, as the contribution from the hon. Member for Birkenhead described eloquently by many hon. Members, and human (Mick Whitley), when he referenced the issues facing rights abuses and violations pose a significant threat to Madagascar. our national interests, our economy, our borders and Women and girls are an example of those who are our security. Tackling those is a huge priority. affected disproportionately by the consequences of climate- The recent working group contribution to the related displacement, which has been a theme of many sixth assessment report from the United Nations’ speeches this afternoon. For that reason, since 2018 we Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change removes have committed to both the global compact on refugees any doubt that human activities have warmed the planet and the global compact for safe, orderly and regular and caused widespread and rapid changes to the climate. migration. By realising global climate finance targets The report shows clearly that without immediate and and supporting credible strategies to help the vulnerable drastic action, the impacts will be severe. We know that adapt to climate change, we can prevent and mitigate its some of the changes to the planet are irreversible. It is impacts on lives, livelihoods and the human rights of clear that we must decarbonise the global economy those most affected. faster. We can only achieve that through more ambitious We are committed to using COP26 to amplify the national actions and international collaboration. concerns of countries vulnerable to climate change and Every conversation that I, as Minister for Asia, and to agree actions to address their concerns. Briefly, I my colleagues at the Foreign, Commonwealth and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Henley Development Office have with our counterparts involves (John Howell), who was right to highlight the role of deep discussion on ensuring that countries come forward the Council of Europe on human rights, on his sterling with ambitious nationally determined contributions. As work as a senior member of the Council. we approach COP26, we have a clear plan to deliver a comprehensive, ambitious and balanced set of negotiated We are committed to delivering a carbon-neutral outcomes that can halt rising temperatures and help COP26 summit and I thank the hon. Member for Arfon those most vulnerable to the impacts of climate change. for his good wishes to the Government on delivering it We have heard about many of those this afternoon. successfully. I am conscious that I need to give the hon. Member a few moments to sum up, and I apologise that We are focused on four priorities for the summit: I have brought it down to about 80 seconds. mitigation, adaptation, climate finance and collaboration. As I have said, we are asking all countries to come 5.28 pm forward ahead of the summit with ambitious commitments on reducing emissions, increasing climate finance and Hywel Williams: I thank all hon. Members who took scaling up adaptation. We need every country to commit part. The debate has been a rich source of comment, to net zero and we would like to see 2030 emissions analysis and points for action. In fact, the debate should reduction targets as part of their nationally determined be of interest to anyone who is concerned about climate contributions. We are working across governments, change. That should be everyone, not just anyone. businesses and civil society to make real progress in the I cannot summarise what has been said in just one largest emitting sectors of power, road transport and minute, but there is a breadth of interest, knowledge land use, and to bend the curve on biodiversity loss and and information, from the Council of Europe to deforestation. Madagascar to Fairbourne. That should give people We have lobbied donor countries to step up their pause for thought. I am glad to give credit where credit climate finance commitments in order to meet the is due, of course, but the burden of my speech was that goal of $100 billion a year that was agreed, as has been we should start from a specific point and that should be 83WH Global Britain: Human Rights and 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Global Britain: Human Rights and 84WH Climate Change Climate Change [Hywel Williams] famous for five words: “no man is an island”. No island is an island, for that matter, so let us have some action human rights, from which other actions will flow. We from this island. are in the Westminster Hall Chamber and outside, in the other Westminster Hall, there is a plaque that people look at every day as they pass. That is the spot 5.30 pm where Sir Thomas More stood trial and, of course, was Motion lapsed, and sitting adjourned without Question condemned. He is famous for lots of things, but he is put (Standing Order No. 10(14)). 15WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 16WS Written Statements Strategy and policy statement We will make provisions within the Elections Bill for the introduction of a strategy and policy statement. The Tuesday 7 September 2021 statement, if approved by the UK Parliament, will set out guidance and principles to which the commission will have a legal duty to have regard in exercising its reserved and devolved functions. However, that legal CABINET OFFICE duty does not replace or undermine its other statutory duties. It is commonplace for the Government to set a policy framework, as approved by Parliament, which independent regulators should consider. Role of Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission An illustrative example of a statement and policy statement for the Electoral Commission will be published during the passage of the Elections Bill to aid The Minister for the Constitution and Devolution (Chloe parliamentarians. We will also be engaging with the Smith): As set out in a previous statement to this House Parliamentary Parties Panel and other interested parties (HCWS100), the Government have proposed a series of on how a draft statement might be framed. measures in the Elections Bill that seek to maintain The role of the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral public confidence in the effective and independent regulation Commission of the electoral system by empowering the UK Parliament We will expand the functions of the Speaker’s Committee to hold the Electoral Commission more effectively to give it the power to examine the commission’scompliance accountable. As the independent regulatory body charged with the duty to have regard to the strategy and policy with upholding the integrity of free and fair elections, it statement. The Government intend: is right for the public to expect that the Electoral to enable the Speaker’s Committee to perform a scrutiny Commission should be more fully and duly accountable function similar to that of parliamentary Select Committees, to the UK Parliament for the way it discharges its in that it will be able to retrospectively examine the Electoral functions. Commission’s activities in light of the regulator’s duty to The Electoral Commission is the independent body have regard to the strategy and policy statement; which oversees elections and regulates political finance that as part of its existing yearly reporting requirements on in the UK. The commission is made up of electoral the discharge of its functions, the Speaker’s Committee will commissioners, including a chair, who are appointed be able to draw to the attention of the House any matter of interest relating to the Electoral Commission’s compliance by Her Majesty via an Address in Parliament. The with its duty with regards to the strategy and policy statement; electoral commissioners govern the work of the Electoral Commission. that the Speaker’s Committee will also be able to set out its own procedures to outline, if it wishes to do so, its workings The commission is already accountable, but to a under its expanded remit in any way it sees fit; limited extent, to Parliament via the Speaker’s Committee that the Speaker’s Committee will have the ability to request on the Electoral Commission. The Speaker’s Committee information (for instance via a public evidence session) from is a cross-party, statutory Committee chaired by the the Electoral Commission that the Speaker’s Committee Speaker of the House of Commons. The Speaker’s may require to discharge its scrutiny function; Committee is responsible for: that the Speaker’s Committee will not be expected to examine determining and overseeing the procedures for selecting individual complaints from members of the public and candidates to be put forward for appointment or reappointment others against the Electoral Commission. Members of the as electoral commissioners; public can already complain to the commission and the parliamentary and health service ombudsman. examining the Electoral Commission’s five-year plan and annual financial estimates (considering the report of the It is right that the commission remains fully operationally Comptroller and Auditor General and advice from the Treasury) independent and that it continues to be governed by its to decide whether they are consistent with the economical, electoral commissioners. Therefore, with this new power efficient and effective discharge by the commission of its the Speaker’s Committee will not be able to proactively functions. Following this, the Speaker’s Committee lays the documents before the House of Commons, with or without direct the commission’s decision making. Our measures any modifications as necessary; will not affect either the governance structure nor statutory provisions for the Electoral Commission’s board and reporting to the House of Commons at least once a year on the exercise of its functions. commissioners. It is important to note that the measures in the With these two measures the Government will empower Elections Bill do not amend the Speaker’s Committee’s the UK Parliament to hold the Electoral Commission current duties nor do they alter the other existing effectively accountable—crucial in maintaining public accountability arrangements of the Electoral Commission: confidence in our electoral system—while also respecting the commission will remain accountable to the Llywydd’s the commission’sinvestigative,enforcement and operational Committee and the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate independence. Body in relation to financial matters and its business I have placed an infographic with this statement in plan where it relates to devolved functions. Our proposals the Libraries of both Houses. will also maintain the statutory role of the Comptroller Attachments can be viewed online at: and Auditor General in his examination of the commission. The Government’s measures will build on these current https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written- arrangements to enhance the commission’s accountability statements/detail/2021-09-07/HCWS269. to Parliament. This is primarily being done in two ways. [HCWS269] 17WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 18WS

TREASURY In order to make timely progress with this policy, it is important that lenders have the certainty of the HM Treasury’s funding commitment to the pilot in Spending Review 2021 good time before the November and December periods, which for many social lenders is the busiest time of the year. As such, HM Treasury’s grant agreement with The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): Today Fair4All Finance has been signed to enable contract I can inform the House that I have launched spending negotiations with lenders to commence. review 2021 (SR21) to set departmental resource and I note that HM Treasury’s intention to develop such a capital DEL budgets from 2022-23 to 2024-25 and the pilot has been in the public domain for some time, and devolved Administrations’ block grants for the same that the pilot has received broad support from across period. SR21 will be presented to Parliament alongside both Houses of Parliament since the Government funding autumn budget 2021 and the economic and fiscal forecast was announced at Budget 2021. Given this support I from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) on hope the House is in agreement with my assessment 27 October 2021. that to delay signing the aforementioned agreement [HCWS268] until the House returned would have been inappropriate and to the detriment of the beneficiaries under this scheme. Pilot No-Interest Loans Schemes: Contingent Liability I will also lay a minute today on this matter. [HCWS267] The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen): It is normal practice when a Government Department proposes to undertake a contingent liability in excess of ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS £300,000 and for which there is no statutory authority, for the Minister concerned to present a departmental minute to Parliament, giving particulars of the liability Establishment of the Office for Environmental created and explaining the circumstances. Protection I wish to notify Parliament of a contingent liability that has been created by the Government from the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for introduction of the pilot No-Interest Loans Scheme. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow): As The pilot No-Interest Loans Scheme was announced at the Environment Bill starts Report stage in the House the Budget on 3 March 2021. The loans will support of Lords today, I am making this statement on the consumers in vulnerable circumstances who would benefit actions taken and commitments made to establish from affordable credit to meet unexpected costs and will the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP) as an provide an alternative to relying on high-cost credit. independent body, given the significant interest from Fair4All Finance, who were founded to support the Members of both Houses. financial wellbeing of people in vulnerable circumstances, have been appointed to run the pilot and will enter This Government were elected on a manifesto that contracts with lenders to deliver the loans, including committed to setting up a new independent environmental to provide a partial guarantee against default losses. body in the OEP, which will help ensure that our high To facilitate the lending to consumers in vulnerable environmental standards are upheld. circumstances, HM Treasury will reimburse Fair4All OEP independence Finance for eligible default losses they incur under eligible guarantees. The Environment Bill includes several provisions to enshrine the OEP’s independence in law. These include HM Treasury will reimburse Fair4All Finance for up a specific duty on the Secretary of State when exercising to 80% of eligible default losses incurred as part of the his or her functions to have regard to the need to protect pilot. HM Treasury will reimburse losses on loans made the OEP’s independence. from 22 September 2021, but the liability will not be incurred until Fair4All Finance enter guarantees with The Bill also states that the OEP must prepare its eligible lenders and defaults occur, which is not expected own strategy that sets out how it intends to exercise its until financial year 2022-23. functions. The OEP is required to lay this strategy before Parliament to allow for proper scrutiny and The maximum amount to be paid under the contingent transparency. The Bill also requires the OEP to act liability is £10 million, with expected payments totalling objectively and impartially.In addition to the protections £1.8 million. HM Treasury will reimburse Fair4All Finance that the Bill provides, the Government have made for eligible default losses on loans initiated after several commitments to ensure the OEP’s operational 22 September 2021 and will stop reimbursing costs by independence. 31 March 2026. If the liability is called, provision for any payment will be sought through the normal supply OEP appointments procedure. The Office for Environmental Protection will be included It is normal that any contingent liabilities should not in the schedule to the Public Appointments Order in be incurred until 14 sitting days after Parliament has Council and non-executive members will be independently been notified of the Government’s intention to incur a regulated by Her Majesty’s Commissioner for Public contingent liability. There is an exception in cases of Appointments. The Bill also requires that the OEP special urgency. This is one such occasion. Chair be consulted on all non-executive appointments. 19WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 20WS

The Equality and Human Rights Commission took a this issue, we have introduced an amendment for Lords similar approach as its board members are appointed Report to enable additional parliamentary scrutiny of by Ministers. The Commission has had an “A”rating as any draft guidance. Under the new amendment, the a national human rights institution from the United Secretary of State will be required to lay a draft of any Nations since 2009, based partly on its independence guidance before Parliament and respond to any resolutions and autonomy from Government. or recommendations made by either House and The appointments of the OEP chair designate and parliamentary Committees before producing the final non-executive members designate have already been guidance. This would supersede and strengthen the made, following a regulated public appointments process, provision in clause 25(4), which currently requires the which will also be followed for future appointments. Secretary of State to lay before Parliament and publish any guidance. The Government took the necessary steps to ensure that the role of chair was listed as a significant appointment This Government are committed to establishing the with the Commissioner for Public Appointments, providing OEP as an independent body to contribute to environmental an added level of scrutiny and independence in the protection and hold public authorities to account. It recruitment process. The Environment, Food and Rural will be a body built on international best practice and Affairs and Environmental Audit Committees conducted tailored to our domestic context, and we are committed a pre-appointment scrutiny hearing before the appointment to ensuring it can be legally established as soon as of Dame Glenys Stacey as OEP chair designate. I am possible following Royal Assent, to begin delivering happy to confirm our intention that future chair benefits for people and the environment. appointments should follow a similar process, ensuring [HCWS265] fairness, accountability and independence in the future. The appointments that have already been made JUSTICE demonstrate that the OEP will have the relevant expertise it needs to operate as an effective independent body. As Protecting the Public and Justice for Victims a further safeguard, Parliament can choose to call any member of the OEP board to provide evidence in The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice relation to their suitability for appointment once they (Robert Buckland): Today I would like to update the have taken up their post. The Bill also requires that the House on how the Government are protecting the public OEP chair be consulted on all non-executive appointments, and providing justice for victims following the Opposition and that the executive members be appointed by the day debate of 9 June 2021. OEP board alone, with the chief executive appointed by Impact of covid-19 the non-executive members—or the chair in the case of the first chief executive—after consultation with the The covid-19 pandemic has had a truly unprecedented Secretary of State. effect on our courts system. Bringing people safely into buildings for trials and hearings—especially jury trials—has OEP finance been challenging. That is why we have done so much to To give the OEP robust financial certainty over the keep delivering justice in these difficult times. coming years,the Government have committed to providing The Government are committed to getting justice it with an indicative five-year budget which will be firing on all cylinders by ramping up our work to enable ringfenced within each spending review period. This judges to safely hold as many hearings as possible over approach follows the model of the Office for Budget the coming year. In the Crown Court, disposals continue Responsibility and is consistent with international best to exceed receipts and we have seen the outstanding practice, strengthening institutional independence through caseload stabilise at around 60,000, and hopefully turn delegated budgetary autonomy. a corner, while our outstanding cases in the magistrates’ I have agreed with HM Treasury the budget for the court are now at the lowest level since the pandemic OEP’s first year of operation. This will be reviewed began. after the first 18 months of operation, which will ensure We will continue to maximise capacity across the an evidence-based approach to the future OEP budget. system, reopening 60 courtrooms by September 2021, The OEP must also include an annual assessment in its extending 32 Nightingale courtrooms until March 2022, annual report and statement of accounts whether it has giving judges the option to open courtrooms for longer— received sufficient sums to carry out its functions, which sitting a session in the morning and another in the must be laid before Parliament. afternoon—and the flexibility to conduct non-trial work, OEP guidance like pre-trial preparation hearings, remotely. We have The OEP has an unprecedented remit: its principal lifted the limit on sitting days in the Crown Court this objective will be to contribute to environmental protection year, enabling us to maximise the use of the courts and the improvement of the natural environment, and it estate, and every available judge. All this activity taken will be able to take enforcement action against all public together will help get more cases heard, more quickly, authorities, including local authorities, regulators and so that there is timely access to justice. central Government Departments. It is for this reason How we supported victims over the last year and through that the Government feels that a guidance power is the pandemic necessary—the OEP must be impartial and independent, While the impacts of covid-19 on the courts have but not unaccountable. been profound, supporting victims to seek justice remains This guidance power will not be used—indeed, it a top priority. We are acutely aware of the risk of cannot be used—to intervene or direct the OEP in victims dropping out of the justice process and are decision making about specific cases. Furthermore, monitoring the impact of covid-19. In recognition of recognising the strength of feeling from Parliament on the impact of covid-19 on victims, the Ministry of 21WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 22WS

Justice established the Victim and Witness Silver Command review sets out a robust programme of work to improve Group in March 2020 in order to identify and assess how the criminal justice system responds to rape— developing risks and issues that may have an impact on increasing the number of cases reaching court to 2016 victims of crime, including in their journey through the levels, reducing the number of victims withdrawing criminal justice system. This group continues to meet from the process and ultimately putting more rapists on a fortnightly basis and its comprehensive membership behind bars. consists of representatives from across Government, Last year we passed legislation to ensure that serious criminal justice agencies, external stakeholders, and the sexual and violent offenders sentenced to a standard third sector. determinate sentence (SDS) of over seven years serve at This year has seen record investment across government least two thirds of their sentence in custody. The Police, of over £300 million in specialist victim services and we Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill will extend this have made over £92 million available since the start of change to more offenders. Those sentenced to an SDS the pandemic to ensure victims had access to critical between four and seven years for certain serious sexual support services, including counselling and advice. or violent offences—where that offence attracts a maximum Independent sexual and domestic violence advisers are penalty of life—which includes rape, will serve two a key component in support through the criminal justice thirds of their sentence in custody instead of half. The system, which is why we have made a £27 million Government are committed to driving this agenda to investment over two years, resulting in the recruitment give victims confidence in the system. of nearly 700 new posts, an increase of 44% on existing Wider support for victims provision. We want to continue transforming the experience of Earlier this year we also published a new victims’ victims in the criminal justice system today. That is why code focused on 12 key rights for all victims of crime. the Government have committed to passing a victims’ The new code is the culmination of two years of extensive law—to put the rights in the victims’ code into statute. work, including hearing from victims and the groups This will help to guarantee victims they will be seen, that support them, to ensure that we have a clear and heard and helped at every point in the justice process. comprehensive framework for victims’ rights. This vital work has laid the necessary foundations for effective We will consult not only on the rights of victims, but legislation in this area, and it is our intention to proceed on the provision of community-based domestic abuse without delay. and sexual violence services, as well as a statutory underpinning for the roles of independent sexual and Alongside this, the Government have demonstrated domestic violence advisers to ensure that victims receive their continued commitment to tackling violence against a high standard of care. women and girls (VAWG) and domestic abuse. We have published new VAWG and domestic abuse strategies I look forward to setting out a timetable for bringing this year to help drive a step-change in the response to the victims’ law on to the statute books and working these crimes, and we have committed to undertaking a with victims, campaigners, and Members of Parliament review of sentencing in domestic homicide cases to from across the political divide to make a success of this understand sentencing practice and consider whether landmark piece of legislation. there is a need for change. These build on our landmark We know there is further to go, and we should not Domestic Abuse Act, which received Royal Assent in underestimate the scale of the challenge ahead of us. April, and is being brought into force as soon as possible. Victims, witnesses and defendants are still waiting too Measures brought into force since the debate on 9 June long and we need to take action to address this. include the offence of threatening to disclose private sexual photographs and films; extending the extraterritorial This year has been incredibly difficult in the courts, jurisdiction of England and Wales in relation to certain as it has in so many areas. But through a monumental violent and sexual offences; ensuring those who are collective effort the system is recovering. homeless as a result of domestic abuse and are eligible [HCWS266] for local authority accommodation have priority need status; and also to enable a pilot using polygraph tests to protect domestic abuse victims. The vast majority of the remaining measures in the Act will be in force by NORTHERN IRELAND spring 2022. How the Government have dealt with rape and serious Northern Ireland Protocol sexual violence cases through the pandemic While criminal justice agencies and the judiciary are The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon prioritising serious cases, including rape, to provide Lewis): My noble Friend, the Minister of State in the certainty to victims and defendants, reducing the Cabinet Office, the right hon. Lord Frost CMG, yesterday outstanding caseload will take several years. We are made the following written statement: working to ensure that these cases will continue to be The Government set out in their 21 July Command Paper, prioritised by all involved while dealing with the impact “Northern Ireland Protocol: the way forward”, proposals to of the pandemic. find a new balance in the operation of the protocol. The Government proposed to the EU on 23 July a “standstill” The Government have long recognised that far too arrangement to maintain the operation of the protocol on few victims of rape are seeing justice and that more the current basis, and to pause current legal actions, to must be done to support them to take their case through provide space for discussions on those proposals. The EU the criminal justice system. The recently published rape announced on 27 July that it was not, at that stage, moving 23WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 24WS

to the next stage of the legal proceedings it started in March. safety, I commissioned an evidence stocktake and set There have since been initial technical talks between the UK out recommendations to raise the bar on safety. This and the EU. These will continue in order to determine was one of my first acts as Secretary of State. whether a constructive process can be established for discussing and addressing the issues identified with the protocol. The subsequent evidence stocktake was published in Following on from this, to provide space for potential March 2020 and showed that ALR motorways are in further discussions, and to give certainty and stability to most ways as safe as, or safer than, conventional ones. I businesses while any such discussions proceed, the Government was determined to make sure they were the safest roads will continue to operate the protocol on the current basis. in Britain, and to this end I announced a package of This includes the grace periods and easements currently in 18 measures, costing £500 million, which includes the force. Operational and other guidance will be updated to faster rollout of a radar-based stopped vehicle detection reflect this approach. We will ensure that reasonable notice is (SVD) across the ALR network, including an additional provided in the event that these arrangements were to change, to enable businesses and citizens to prepare. £5 million on national and targeted communications campaigns to ensure drivers receive the right advice to [HCWS262] help them keep safe. Other actions included an update to the highway code to include new information about driving on TRANSPORT high-speed roads, which has been achieved this year, six months earlier than scheduled. We have also changed Draft Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations the law to enable automatic detection of vehicles driving (Amendment) Order 2021 in closed lanes, known as red “X”violations and National Highways is upgrading specialist cameras to help better identify violations so those drivers can be prosecuted. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport A year on, I commissioned a progress report from (Rachel Maclean): I have today published the draft National Highways to set out progress on those 18 actions, statutory instrument, the Renewable Transport Fuel and to develop proposals about how several of them Obligations (Amendment) Order 2021, and accompanying can be accelerated, going above and beyond what was explanatory memorandum. originally committed to. The progress report was also an opportunity to review updated data since the 2020 Renewable transport fuels already make a substantial stocktake. Crucially, the data contained in the National contribution towards meeting UK carbon budgets and Highways progress report published in April 2021 continues will continue to play an important role in meeting the to show that fatal casualties are less likely on all lane UK’s increasingly ambitious future carbon reduction running motorways than on conventional ones. targets. In 2019, the use of renewable fuel supplied under the RTFO saved approximately 5.5 million tonnes The National Highways progress report drew its evidence of carbon dioxide emissions,equivalent to taking 2.5 million from data and analysis of the 2019 STATS19 official cars off the road. statistics and produced by National Highways. I know that there has been considerable public and media interest This statutory instrument amends the Renewable in understanding motorway accident and fatality data, Transport Fuel Obligations Order 2007 (SI 2007/3072). and in March 2021 I commissioned the Office of Rail The statutory instrument will help further increase carbon and Road to independently review the data to provide savings by increasing renewable fuels targets and expanding further analytical assurance and ensure that the conclusions the RTFO to sectors with limited alternatives to decarbonise, arrived at are robust. such as maritime. The ORR’s report, “Quality Assurance of All Lane The statutory instrument is published in accordance Running Motorway data”, is published today. I welcome with the procedure required by schedule 8 of the European the ORR’s review and their conclusion that they found Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and agreed with Parliament. no errors in the underlying calculations, and all the This is because it includes amendments to the Renewable products and processes reviewed are in line with established Transport Fuel Obligations Order 2007, parts of which practice. This was a thorough undertaking; the ORR were previously amended by SIs made under section drew on its expertise as the monitor of England’s strategic 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972. The statutory road network. The ORR analysed detailed information, instrument is being published in draft at least 28 days interviewed relevant staff at both National Highways before being laid for affirmative debate. and the Department for Transport, and reviewed the The Department consulted on these proposals between evidence submitted to the Transport Select Committee March and April 2021 in the paper “Targeting net inquiry, which commenced in February 2021. To provide zero—Next steps for the Renewable Transport Fuels additional expertise and challenge, the ORR took Obligation”. The Government response to that consultation independent analytical advice from a specialist consultancy and associated cost-benefit analysis are available here. and involved the non-executive chair of its National Highways committee. This was done to ensure the [HCWS264] conclusions and recommendations arrived at are as robust and comprehensive as possible. The report supports Motorway Safety National Highway’s findings that smart motorways are the safest roads in the country in terms of fatalities. The ORR’s report contains several recommendations The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): for improvement that will strengthen our understanding I have on several occasions announced to this House of road safety. National Highways have agreed to all its the importance of road safety to me and my Department. recommendations and developed an action plan in response After hearing the public’s concerns about smart motorway which is already under way. 25WS Written Statements 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Written Statements 26WS

My commission for assurance into smart motorway provision is available everywhere across the country. safety data by the ORR is another step towards improving This will help to ensure that adopted children and their road safety and instilling public confidence in the safety families can access the services and support they need of our roads, which make a crucial contribution to to flourish wherever they live. economic and social development in this country. A new framework of national standards will mean [HCWS270] services delivered to the same high quality across the country. It means that best practice will drive services as EDUCATION part of a culture of continuous improvement. Adoption Provision The strategy will see us recruiting adopters from all communities and from all walks of life so that we The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): recruit all those who are able to provide loving homes to Every child should have the opportunity to fulfil their the children who are waiting to be adopted—a service potential. Children thrive in loving, stable families.However, where children are matched seamlessly across organisational some face challenges which most of us can only imagine. boundaries with families that can provide a loving They will often have experienced abuse and neglect. home without unnecessary delay. Where a child cannot live with their birth parents, the Our strategy sets out how we will radically improve best alternative home will often be with other family adoption support from the moment a match with a members or within loving foster families. For some family has been approved. This includes not only direct children, adoption is the best alternative. support in the home, but also by schools and local We cannot overestimate how important a new family health services, and support which continues throughout is to an adopted child. Their security comes from knowing their childhood whenever it is required. that they are safe and cared for, that they will get the Sector leaders will build on their collaborative approach love and support they need and will be supported to to ensure that all services are delivered to the same high make the most of life’s opportunities. That is why we standards across the country, developing the new national published our new adoption strategy “Achieving Excellence standards. Where it is most effective, we will look to Everywhere”. A copy of the strategy can be found at: deliver services on a national scale, for example on www.gov.uk. adopter recruitment or some elements of support. In 2015 the adoption system was highly fragmented, with around 180 agencies recruiting and matching adopters; To ensure that the needs of adoptive families become most of these were operating at a very small scale. This a high priority for all, sector leaders will develop strong caused delays in the recruitment of adopters and in the partnerships with local authority children’s services, matching of children with approved adopters. Since voluntary adoption agencies,education, health, the Children then, we have moved successfully to a regionalised and Family Court Advisory and Support Service, the approach with 31 regional adoption agencies covering judiciary and voluntary and community groups. 145 local authorities across the country.Regional adoption We are making significant investment in 2021-22 as agencies are delivering adoption services more effectively part of the strategy: at a greater scale with the regional leaders collaborating £1 million for regional adoption agency leaders to collectively to improve services and address challenges. improve recruitment and the adopter approval process; In 2015 we introduced the Adoption Support Fund £500,000 to increase early permanence arrangements,whereby to help children who have experienced abuse and neglect a child is placed with prospective adopters when first removed to get the therapeutic support they need. Since then, from their birth family; over 36,000 individual children have been supported £46 million to continue post adoption support for families and had their lives transformed. through the Adoption Support Fund; We have reduced the number of children waiting £500,000 to employ a national regional adoption agency from 5,000 in 2010 to 2,600 now, and children are strategic leader and a support team of two project workers moving in with adoptive families faster, with more to progress collaborative working on agreed priority areas; families now getting the adoption support they need. £100,000 funding to commission research on outcomes of This is good progress, but we need to do more. Two children who left care on an adoption or special guardianship thousand six hundred children waiting is still too many. order. One thousand children are still waiting over 18 months Our ambition is to deliver adoption swiftly and effectively to be matched; this is too long. This typically includes when adoption is the right path for the child. They and older children, children from ethnic minorities, sibling their families deserve the very best services we can offer groups and children with additional needs. This is to help them thrive and to achieve the best possible unacceptable. outcomes. Our strategy will help them to do so. Our strategy sets out a bold and ambitious vision which will see regional adoption agencies building on A copy of the strategy will be placed in the Libraries their collaborative approach to deliver a framework of of both Houses. national standards and working with other agencies [HCWS274] across health, education, and justice so that high-quality 9P Petitions 7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Petitions 10P

Royal Mail is a fully independent private business, Petition and the Government do not have a role in the day-to-day operational matters of the company,including the location Tuesday 7 September 2021 of specific post boxes. However, the Office of Communications (Ofcom), as the independent regulator for the postal sector, requires OBSERVATIONS Royal Mail to ensure there is a post box within half a mile of the premises of at least 98% of users of postal services. Royal Mail is also required to report annually BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL to Ofcom the number of customer complaints received STRATEGY about the provision and/or location of post boxes. Royal Mail has advised the Government that the post Post box in Stoke village box in Stoke Village was situated on private land and The petition of residents of Stoke and surrounding Royal Mail had received a request from the landowner communities in Plymouth, to remove it. Royal Mail is required to remove a post box if it has received such a request from the landowner. Declares that Stoke village is a vibrant shopping In such circumstances, Royal Mail reviews the provision centre and the heart of the local community but that the of postal services in the area to decide whether a post loss of its post box is detrimental to the local shops and box should be reinstated elsewhere. Royal Mail advises community; and further that the Royal Mail should that there are a number of post boxes in close proximity restore its post box in Stoke Village as soon as possible. to the one which was removed and that one of these has The petitioners therefore request that the House of been updated to a later collection post box. Commons urge the Government to support the campaign Consequently, after taking into account all of the for a new post box in Stoke Village and call on the relevant factors, we understand that Royal Mail has Royal Mail to install it without delay. taken the operational decision to not install a replacement And the petitioners remain, etc. —[Presented by post box. Luke Pollard, Official Report, 7 July 2021; Vol. 698, Ofcom is carrying out a review of the future regulatory c. 1020.] framework for post which it aims to complete in 2022. As part of this review, Ofcom will consider its approach [P002673] to regulating the universal postal service and has sought Observations from the Under-Secretary of State for views on the accessibility of the service, particularly for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): vulnerable people and those who may be more reliant It is important that people and businesses can access on postal services. A call for inputs was launched on postal services and can send and receive letters and 11 March 2021 and closed on 20 May 2021. Ofcom parcels regularly. That is why the Government are intends to publish a full consultation on the future committed to ensuring the provision of a sustainable, regulation of postal services later this year. More efficient, accessible, and affordable universal postal service information about the regulatory regime can be found in the United Kingdom. on Ofcom’s website www.ofcom.org.uk.

1MC Ministerial Corrections7 SEPTEMBER 2021 Ministerial Corrections 2MC Ministerial Correction [Official Report, 6 September 2021, Vol. 700, c. 20.] Letter of correction from the Minister for School Standards, the right hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Tuesday 7 September 2021 Littlehampton (Nick Gibb). An error has been identified in the response I gave to EDUCATION the hon. Member for West and (Ellie Reeves). Topical Questions The correct response should have been: The following is an extract from Education Questions on 6 September 2021.

Nick Gibb: We are committed to arts education. The Nick Gibb: We are committed to arts education. The proportion of those who are taking at least one GCSE proportion of those who are taking at least one GCSE in an arts subject has remained broadly stable over the in an arts subject has remained broadly stable over the past 10 years. We are also committed to very significant past 10 years. We are also committed to very significant funding for arts and music projects, with £620 million funding for arts and music projects, with £620 million over the past three years, including £79 million for the over the past five years, including £79 million for the 119 music education hubs and £148 million for the 119 music education hubs and £148 million for the music and dance scheme. We are very committed to music and dance scheme. We are very committed to the arts and to drama in our schools. the arts and to drama in our schools.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 7 September 2021

Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 131 TREASURY—continued End of Universal Credit Uplift ...... 144 Net Zero Emissions and Green Investment ...... 137 Helping Young People into Work: Covid-19 ...... 141 New Infrastructure Investment ...... 143 Living Standards...... 133 Topical Questions ...... 146 Loan Charge: Bankruptcy ...... 131 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Tuesday 7 September 2021

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 15WS NORTHERN IRELAND...... 22WS Role of Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Northern Ireland Protocol ...... 22WS Commission...... 15WS TRANSPORT ...... 23WS EDUCATION...... 25WS Draft Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations Adoption Provision...... 25WS (Amendment) Order 2021 ...... 23WS Motorway Safety ...... 23WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS. 18WS Establishment of the Office for Environmental Protection ...... 18WS TREASURY ...... 17WS Pilot No-Interest Loans Schemes: Contingent JUSTICE...... 20WS Liability ...... 17WS Protecting the Public and Justice for Victims...... 20WS Spending Review 2021...... 17WS PETITION

Tuesday 7 September 2021

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY ...... 9P Post box in Stoke village ...... 9P MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Tuesday 7 September 2021

Col. No. EDUCATION...... 1MC Topical Questions ...... 1MC No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 14 September 2021

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 700 Tuesday No. 42 7 September 2021

CONTENTS

Tuesday 7 September 2021

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 131] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Exchequer

Health and Social Care [Col. 153] Statement—(Prime Minister)

Business of the House [Col. 182] Statement—(Mr Rees-Mogg)

Pensions Update [Col. 185] Statement—(Dr Coffey)

Misuse of Fireworks [Col. 193] Bill presented, and read the First time

Transport (Disabled Passenger Charter) [Col. 194] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Charlotte Nichols)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Elections Bill [Col. 198] Motion for Second reading—(Chloe Smith) Amendment—(Cat Smith)—on a Division, negatived Motion, on a Division, agreed to Read a Second time Programme motion—(Scott Mann)—agreed to

Local Policing [Col. 277] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall East Midlands Economy [Col. 1WH] Impact of Floods in North Westminster [Col. 27WH] Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing [Col. 36WH] Affordable Housing in the South-West [Col. 58WH] Global Britain: Human Rights and Climate Change [Col. 66WH] General debates

Written Statements [Col. 15WS]

Petition [Col. 9P] Observations

Ministerial Correction [Col. 1MC]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]