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Public Session PUBLIC SESSION MINUTES OF ORAL EVIDENCE taken before HIGH SPEED RAIL COMMITTEE On the HIGH SPEED RAIL (LONDON – WEST MIDLANDS) BILL Tuesday 23 June 2015 (Afternoon) In Committee Room 5 PRESENT: Mr Robert Syms (Chair) Mr Henry Bellingham Sir Peter Bottomley Ian Mearns _____________ IN ATTENDANCE Mr James Strachan QC, Counsel, Department for Transport Witnesses: Mr John Donovan Mr Robert Jones-Owen Mrs Beryl Upton Ms Kirsty Gibbs Ms KJ Alonso and Mr KJ West Ms Gayle Metcalfe and Pauline Woodham Mr Ian Phillips Ms Susan Crane and Mr David Crane Mr Henry Gardner, Governor, Vyners School _____________ IN PUBLIC SESSION INDEX Subject Page John Donovan, Beryl Upton, Robert Jones-Owen and others (continued) Closing submissions by Mr Donovan 3 Submissions by Mrs Upton 4 Submissions by Mr Jones-Owen 12 Response from Mr Strachan 18 Kirsty Gibbs and others Submissions by Ms Gibbs 28 Response from Mr Strachan 33 Ms KJ Alonso and Mr KJ West Submissions by Ms Alonso 36 Submissions by Mr West 37 Response from Mr Strachan 39 Gayle Metcalfe and Pauline Woodham and others Submissions by Ms Metcalfe 41 Response from Mr Strachan 50 Ian Phillips, Susan Crane and others Submissions by Mr Phillips 61 Submissions by Mr Crane 69 Submissions by Ms Crane 76 Response from Mr Strachan 79 The Governing Body of Vyners School Submissions by Mr Gardner 84 Response from Mr Strachan 99 2 1. CHAIR: Order, order. We’re back this afternoon with HS2 Select Committee, dealing with petitions 728, 717, 730, 729, 724 and 1264. Mr Donovan. John Donovan, Beryl Upton, Robert Jones-Owen and others (continued) 2. MR DONOVAN: Thank you. Can I have slide A1109(8) up, please? Just before we broke for lunch I was talking about the difficulty already being experienced by people trying to sell property in the Hoylake Crescent area, and I pointed out that there are only eight houses in that rural support zone. During the lunch break, one of the people, who lives at number 154 said that he’d approached HS2 to buy his house. He also spoke to a local estate agent. HS2 said it was worth £25,000 less than the estate agent. He put it on the market with the estate agent. He said four people came to visit and apparently each one of them pulled out after finding out more about HS2. So I think that bears out what I was saying earlier about it’s already becoming difficult to sell houses, and houses are already blighted. 3. If we could go – I think I’ve almost come to the end of what I wanted to say. I just wanted to go back on that point and make sure it was clear to everybody that it’s an increasing problem for people who want to move from Hoylake Crescent. On the Promoter’s response, one of the things they said to me was that my property in Hoylake Crescent, with the work, is unlikely to cause any adverse noise during construction and is unlikely to cause a significant adverse noise effect during operation. I think they’re kind of slightly weasel words, really. ‘Unlikely’ can mean that it’s possible, so it could cause adverse and significant effects. It’s hardly reassuring, and I think brushed away any concerns that people have. 4. Going back slightly, a couple of years, when Philip Hammond was Secretary of State for Transport, he said: ‘Where a project which is in the national interest imposes significant financial loss on individuals, I believe it is right and proper that they should be compensated fairly for that loss.’ And I think it’s only right that should happen in practice. 5. Just a very quick word on the community forums. These were held to inform and answer questions from local people. But they were often unable to do either of those two things. And at the end of the very last community forum meeting we were told, at 3 the end of it, that this was going to be the last one. There was no discussion and no advanced warning. After all the meetings that we’ve had, during the last four years or so with HS2, I’m not aware of any concessions that they’ve made to local residents. And I think that’s where I’d like to finish. 6. CHAIR: Who’s on next? 7. MR DONOVAN: Sorry, are you? 8. CHAIR: No, it’ll be three of you together. Three make presentations. Beryl Upton and others 9. MRS UPTON: I’m Beryl Upton. Like John, I’m to present on behalf of all our neighbours on Hoylake Crescent, Pynchester Close and Copthall Road East. I’m also representing Mr and Mrs Ilott. My petition is personal to me, but it mainly applies if the conveyor built and construction works are built near the back of my garden. I’ve learned a lot about petitioning since I’ve completed my last May, and if I were writing it now it would be very different, and I would have included a lot about the need to protect our countryside, our wildlife, our trees and our valuable greenbelt and environment. I haven’t mentioned it all in my petition, but I do fully support everybody making this request. 10. Life is going to change drastically if construction of HS2 goes ahead, and the impact upon the whole of area would be huge. The environmental statement is flawed. The plans for HS2 have been hastily drawn up on a desktop using aerial maps, without any local knowledge and often with no attempt to visit the areas. Requests by me for a visit from HS2 finally resulted in HS2 representatives visiting my house in March 2014, and I thank them for coming. I, along with several of the petitioners who are here today, took them on a tour of parts of Ickenham, which are particularly close to the planned route, including Brackenbury House, Hoylake Crescent and the green way. I think what they saw was not what they expected to see. But much of Ickenham, although within the M25, is still rural, green, peaceful and unspoilt. 11. My husband and I moved to Ickenham in 1970. It was a lovely place to live and bring up our children. Our house was to be our forever family home. Can I have my 4 slide A1108, slide one, please? On the left it shows the area where I live, the area we are presenting. And this bit here is the bit that we’re all – yeah. Thank you. Slide two, please. You’ve seen that map often, but that shows how close Chiltern line is to my house. Slide three, please. That shows the noise levels. And slide four shows the River Pinn as it passes under the Chiltern line bridge, and a view of the riverside walk. Slide five, please. The path behind my garden – that’s that one, the top left. The one to right of that is the cricket club, beginning of match. Bottom left is the golf tee, which will be lost due to the construction and the line. And the one on the right is the path running beside the River Pinn where the conveyor belt will be. 12. I’m one of the so-called lucky home owners whose property is within 120m of the HS2 line, and I therefore quality for compensation under voluntary purchase scheme. But I do not want to sell. I still consider our house to be our forever home. It’s full of lovely memories, but it’s still also a happy place to live in the present. Slide six, please. That shows my home and my garden, which I love. Everything in garden, except the old apple tree, was planted by us and our family. At night it so dark that I can see the stars. It’s also magical to sit with the family watching the bats fly over the garden late into the evening. I’m very aware that the impacts of light pollution by HS2 on the bats, especially during construction, would be particularly detrimental. 13. MR BELLINGHAM: Can I ask you how much background light is there at night now? 14. MRS UPTON: I’m going to show you. 15. MR BELLINGHAM: Thank you. I’m waiting with bated breath. 16. MRS UPTON: Yes, it is dark. 17. MR BELLINGHAM: I must say, it’s a stunning garden. 18. MRS UPTON: Thank you. Where have I got to? I know the Committee will be very pleased to hear that there are newts in my pond, because I know you often miss the newts. The tunnel portal will not be far away from my garden, and the track behind my house will climb high enough to cross the bridges over the River Pinn and Breakspear Road South. 5 19. P6749, please. This shows the cross-section of land between Hoylake Crescent and the River Pinn. This is the HS2. Can I have slide seven of mine, please? Which is A1108. If you draw a line level with the top of my roof going horizontally across to HS2, which is – I have actually done – that’s that line there – you’ll see that the track of HS2 is actually slightly higher than the top of my roof. Sorry, it’s bit of a long stretch. That one there. 20. SIR PETER BOTTOMLEY: How often do you stand on your roof and have a look? 21. MRS UPTON: Okay. Quite often, obviously.
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