1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8049
A.).fEND:llE:.'ii'TS TO TAX 11.EDUC'IIO~ BILL D!D~'T WAXT TO JtETURN " He left Pittsburgh on .tbe last train Su»day night, 'lfter :\Jr. 1\IcKELLAR submitted an additional amendment in rema.rkin.g that he did not wish to return," said Craig. tended to be proposed by him to the tax-reductfon bill (H. R. His absence from Benwood over the week end was borne out by G715), which wa ordere BE~ WOOD, w. VA., ~~ DISASTEB. I father and f.our brothers and five .sisters. He was ~ member o.f the Kittanning lodge of J?:lks, K. of C., and the Pittsbngh lodge of Eagles, l\fr. WHEELER :Mr. President, I ask leave to ha-ve printed and 34 years of age. · in the REcoRD an article whic-h appeared in the Wheeling, RECESS W. Va., Intelligencer of May 1 relative to the Ben-~ood mine disaster and lack of mine inspection on the mormng of the :Mr. SMOOT. I ask unanimous con ent that the Senate 'take diRaster. a recess nntil 11 o'clock to-morrow. There being no objection, the article was ordered to be Mr. HARRISON. :\fr. President, reserving the right to ob printed in the REconn, as follows : jed, may I ask the Senator if he will not allow the Senate to meet to-morrow at 12 o'clock, for this reason: The Com fFrom the Wheeling Intelligern:er, Wheeling, W. Va., Thursday, May 1, mittee on .Agricnlture and Forestry has fixed 11 o'clock to . 1924] morrow morning to take up a number of bills that have been Two MoR1l BODIES TAKEN FROM :Ml~""E-FUNERAL SERVICES TO-DAY FOR pending before the committee for some time in an effort to l\Il~""E "VICTIMS-RG:UORS BENWOOD ~rnE WAS NOT lNSPECTED--FillE dispose of them in executive session. Of course we.can not be Boss SAID TO BE AGEXT OF SECRET SERVICE DEPARTMENT-MATTHEW there and here at the same time. We have moved so rapidly Y. HEBRON, POSING AS Fffil!l Boss, WORKI~G HERE UNDER NAME OF to-day I thought perhaps the Senator would agree to meet .J. J. llOYLE--BROTHER-IN-LAW, HERE FOR BODY, TELLS STARTLING at 12 o'clock . STORY OF VICTIM'S EMPLOYMFTh""T--CHECK UP INDICATES PROPER l\1r. SMOOT.. We will have no vote on the gift tax before INSPECTION WAS NOT MA.DE AT MINE MO~DAY 12 o'clock to-morrow. Mr. HARRISON. Very well. Information secured yesterday by Intelligencer reporters tends to Mr. SMOOT. .All I care about is to get to the indiTidual confirm rumors and statements by competent mine authorities that amendments which have been presented and of which there the Benwood mine e.xplosion, which cost the lives of more than 100 men are nearly 50. :\Ionday morning, was caused by incapable or the entire Jack of mine l\Ir. I should like hear what the inspection on the morning of the disaster. NORRIS. to request is. Mr. Sl\lOOT. I have requested that the Senate take a re It is known positively that the supposed J. J. Boyle, fire boss, aird one cess until to-morrow at 11 o'clock. of the T"ictims, who i offici•lly credited with having inspected the mine Mr. NORRIS. I was to supplement what the Senator from on fast Monday lltt)rning and marked it safe for working, was actually Mississippi has said. I have not been able to be here for :Matthew V. Herron, wbo was employed by the company as fire oo at some time during the consideration of the pending bill when tile Benwood mine without having had ruzy previoos experience which there was under consideration some item in which I was in \Yould qualify bl.om to pass Qn sueh a IDRtter of safet.r. terested and wanted to be present to discuss . . llis brother-in-blw, Matthew L. Craig, 236 Sycamore Street, Pitts- Mr. SMOOT. 1\1r. President, I will change my request. and 1.mrgh, Pa. ., who clnimed the body a.t th~ Cooey· Bena morgrre last night, i;,. authority as t.o the identity of Herron alias Boyle. move that the Senate take a recess until 12 o'clock to-morrow. The motion was agreed to; and {at 9 o'clock and 25 min ID!rLOYED BY G'OVER.~l\I'ENT utes p. m.) the Senate took a recess -until to-morrow, Thurs Craig told Intelligence reporters last night Herron was in the em day, 'May 8, m'24, at 12 o'dock meridian. ploy of the Department of Justice of the United States Government, and that he had been in the employ of the. Government for the past eight yea.rs in the capacity of a special inT"estigator. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES By a careful check up of t.he actions of Herron on the morning of the fatal explosion he did not make any inspection of the mine; that 1VEDmsnAY, May 7, 1924 he did not leave his rooming house, 723 Main Street, Benwood, operated The House met at 12 o'clock noon, and was called to order by 1fr. and Mrs. Joseph Galb, until between 6.30 and 7 o'clock, and by the Speaker. aid :not have time to make any inspection of the mter:ior of the mine The Chaplain, Rev, James Shera Mont.gomery, D. D. offered previous to the time he rode into the mine on the nip with tlle fore 1 man, Georg-e Holliday, sr. the following prayer : 0 Thou who lovest Thy earthly children with infinite love THEORY CO~FIRMED that extends to all people and realms of every tongue, abide This theory confirms the statement made to the Intelligencer With 11s. We ,come to Thee with varied experiences and yet yesterday 'by Jerome Wat. on, chief of the Division of Mines of the with a common desire, which is, that Thou would'st discern State of Ohio, and in Benwood at the present time as the ofilcial for us. We would ha.ve an artB:r in our brea ts, and at that r<'presentatite -0f the Ohio gC>Veruor. hallowed spot we would confess our sins, renew our vows, Wat on said at that time that no n.ccident of the kind ooold llilve and would ask the Father's blessing. 0 Gad of the nations, happened had a i:n-oper inspection of the mtne been made prior :to to Thee our country we commend. In great wisdom and in the men entering the mine. bountiful mercy, be Thou the source of all her strength, happi· Hetto.n left big home, Nmth and Chess, llonongahela, Pa., Sun ness, and prosperity, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. day, AI)til 20, and came to Benwood, acooratng t6 Craig :m.d con firmed by his lalldlady, wh-0 stated he engaged a room there Mon The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and .day, April 21. He was employed as it.re boss, as shown by the approved. offici:.tl list furnished by the compruiy, eni:ering the mine lfonday FELICITATIONS TO FOUfER SPEAKER CANNON morn:ing. Mr. GARRETT of TennesS'ee. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous FURNl'Sinm CREDE:!m:ALS consent for the consideration of the resolution which I send to the Clerk's desk. Credentials turcls~d the company Herron ·· were obviously ;by ask:S unani such as to warrant his employment by the company. His brother The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Tennessee mous consent for the consideration of the TeS'olntion which the in-lav, howel'er, claims that he bad no nualification.s. for his job Clerk will report. and that he was here on a secret mission for the Federal Secret Service. The Clerk read a.s follCYWs : "Friday night i\Iatthew received a telephone call from -Pitts Resoli·ea, That the !elicitations of the House of Representatives are burgh to meet certain -Operative o! the Secret Service Depart 1Iel'eby cordially extended to the former Speaker. Hon. Joseph G. ment on business which was naturally unknown to me," said Cannon, on the eighty-eighth anniversary of his birth, and th.at he is l\lr. Craig. asS'Ured of its best "'.ishes for his continued health a.nd happiness ; and "He spent Saturday and Sunday in Pittsburgh, bnt failed to Resolved further, That the Clerk of the Rouse be directed to trans meet his party. Late Sunday afternoon Herron came out to our mit this resolution to Mr. Cannon by telegraph, and to send to him house and gave me all the information I run now giving to you. by mail n.n engrossed copy. The resporu.1bility of his .mi sion in Be-nwood mu ·t have wejghed [.Awlause.] hea\ily on his mind, as he tried se•eral times to tell me of it, but The SPEAKER. Is there ohjecti :\Ir. HOLillA.Y. l\Ir. Speaker and gentlemen, Joseph G. indicate very clearly the unusual interest tltat is taken in this Cauuon's record as a Member of this House is inseparably great subject, not only by the people who live in the country interwown with 50 rears of constructi're progress of our Na- but also those who li\e in the cities. tion. . What is the difficulty with agriculture? Hours could be When com·ersing with him only a few days ago, he asked consumed in answering this question and bitter controversy to be rememlJered to his friends in Col\gress and expressed possibly aroused as to the whys and wherefores of it. I shall an abiding confidence in the future progress of our country. not weary the committee with a long, drawn-out discussion. l\lr. Cannon's refusal to again be a candidate is the only The farmer's trouble centers around the lack of an adequate thing that prevents his membership in Congress to-day. price for his products. Measured by its comparative com I am glad ~o join with my colleagues in the House in ex modity value his dollar is a 60-cent dollar. In other words, the pres.-::ing to Uncle Joe our good wishes; I know our good wishes exchange value of his commodities is upon that basis. He can are joined with those of his host of friends throughout the not survive under such conditions, and the best thought of the eighteentll congressional district of Illinois, who appreciate country should concentrate on this problem and devise wa3·s the servkes he £endered not only to the district that he so long and means by which this grfat disparity may be removed. represented but to the entire Nation. [Applause.] What shall be done? How shall the price of farm products The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the resolu be put on a parity with general commodity prices? What tion. sound program can be de\ised to accomplish this result? Mr. The resolution was unanimously agreed to. Chai~man, in my opinion the answer will not be found in T\YO ADDITION AL JUDGES, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ifEW YORK demagogic appeals or in partisan criticism. It will be found in a clear apprehension and a frank acknowledgment of the situa ~lr. SI\TELL. Mr. Speaker, I present a privileged revort tion on the part of all of -0m people, both city and country, from the €ommittee on Rules. and an equally sincere and earnest effort to meet it fairly and The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York presents justly. It will be found in a careful study of the experience of a privileged report from the Committee on Rules, which the others who have met and mastered like difficulties as they have Clerk will report. developed in recurring cycles through the years. The Clerk read as follows : Emphasis must be placed on reducing farm-production cost Report from the Committee on Rules on the resolution (II. Res. by imprnrnd methods and management. Wonderful progress 298 ) for the consideration of the bill H. R. 3318, entitled "A blll has been registered by the American farmers in this regard in to provide for the appointment of two additional judges of the dis recent years. He is the best farmer the world knows, whether trict court of the United States for the southern district of New York." judged by his indil"idual production or by production per unit of land. Every help and encouragement should be given him AGREEMENTS FOR Al'JUTRATION OF DISPUTES to continue this pr-0gress. Not only must his best thought be ~lr. SNELL. l\1r. Speaker, I present another report from given to economical production but a method must be found to the Committee on Rules. regulate or handle the surplus of agricultural products. It is The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York presents surely an unsound national policy to force farmers to restrict another report from the Committee on Rules, which the Clerk production of foodstuffs in order to secure an adequate price ; will report. but if another way can not be found to meet the situation, that The Clerk read as follows: -course will be the only one open to them. Report from the Committee on Rules on the resolution (H. Res. I assert, economically speaking, that in all the history of the Wfl ) for the consideration of the bill H. R. 646, entitled "A bill world there has never been an overproduction of wheat. There to rnake valid and enforceable written provisions or agreements for may have been a breaking down of our transportation systems arllitratlon of disputes arising out of contracts, maritime tra.nsac by which these products are carried to hungry humanity ; but, tio111', or commerce among the States or Territories, or with foreign as a matter of fact, practically every author of political econ nntions." omy in the last 100 years has argued very strongly that with :\Cr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I would like to adequate transportation facilities there can hardly be such a ask the attention of the gentleman from New York [Mr. thing as overproduction. The remedy lies, my friends, in im SxELL] for a moment. I believe that this makes about eight proving and building up systems of transportation and distribu resolutions from the Committee on Rules now on the calendar? tion by which the so-called surplus of crops and production can ::\Ir. SNELL. The gentleman is absolutely correct. be carried to the hungry millions in other lands. l\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I would like to ask the gentle CLASS LEGISLATIOY man what the plan is to go on to consider them. Whenever an effort is made to do something for the farmer l\fr. S1\1ELL. We expect to take them up to-morrow and hope it is called class legislation, and candor compels me to admit to finish them. that it is class legislation, but it is legislation in an effort to :\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. What is the gentleman's pro put the farmer in the same class with the other people of the gram? country. • l\lr. SNELL. As soon as possible we are going to follow out I can not overemphasize the evil effect of class legislation the ·program and take them up in their order. so far as the farmer is concerned. I assert tlrnt class legislation i.\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. As they appear on the cal is more largely responsible for the present economic plight of endar? ·the American farmers than all other causes combined. It is l\lr. SNELL. Yes; so far as possible. I will say to the the fundamental cause of all the causes, and the baneful influ gentleman from Tennessee that we have already had a set ence of this cause will continue until the prime cause is re back on one bill. I understand that the gentleman from New moved. And, gentlemen, there can be no permanent rehabilita Jersey [l\lr. LEHLBACH] will not be here. That was on the tion of agriculture until there is an abandonment of class legis program, and we shall have to change it. lation and a denial of special privilege, and until we strike from REJ..IEF FOR F..iRMERS the statute books of the Nation every legislative act whereby one class is taxed for the enrichment of another class or one l\Ir. EV ANS of l\lont.:wa. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous section given special privilege at the expense of other sections. consent to extend my r~m·arks in the RECORD on the subject of Owing to the protective tariff which the Government main farm relief. tains the farmer has to pay a great deal more for what he The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Montana asks unani buys than he would ha\.e to pay if he could purcllase· in an open .inous consent to extend his remarks on the subject of farm market, and at the same time he is compelled to sell his entire relief. Is there objection? crop on the basis of what they will give him for it at Liverpool. There was no objection. and in direct competition with the entire world. l\1r. EVANS of Montana. l\lr. Speaker, there is no theme The Congress has by its legislation protected the home market more widely discussed in the United States to-day than that of of the manufacturer by the passage of a high protective tariff agriculture. Our papers, both farm journals, weekly news measure. Tllis measure furnishes no protection to the farmer papers, and e\en the great metropolitan dailies, have carried in but penalizes him. I therefore believe it to be the sacred their editorials, as well as their news columns, splendid dis duty of Congress to pass some bill or legislation that will afford cussions-construcu ,~ e discussion for the most part-of the many relief to the farmer. He is not asking any favors; he is only problems that surround this great funuamental business. There asking a square deal. In my judgment it is not the low prices is scarcely a platform to-c.lay from which men speak where they the farmer receives for his products, it is more largely the do uot include in the subjects they present to the public dis high price be must pay for the things he buys. However, for cussions of this great business. The ·rnry fact that our great the time being at least it is manifestly impossible to bring the Chautauquas and our great lecture courses find places on their prices of the things the farmer must buy down to the level of programs for constructirn discussions on tllis great business his prices, then the only practical remedy seems to be to raise 1924 - CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8051 the prices of agricultural products to the level of manufacured islation is concerned regarding this big question, proposals are prouucts, and this we should attempt to do. in order; the time for objections has long since elapsed. It is simply a physical impossibility for the farmers to con The appeals to Congressmen do not come from the farmers tinue to buy their supplies in a highly protected market and only, but many bankers, merchants, teachers, and men in other at the same time sell their products for whatever they are lines of business, and club members are likewise manifesting offered in a foreign market. The millions of farmers who their interest in this legislation in every farming section of ha-re already lost their entire holdings prove this to be true this country. beJ·ond question, and the many failures of banks and business Time waits for no man-the farmer has been waiting for all men as well as farmers, and the hardship and suffering en time. Do not let anyone be heard to say that the farmers of tailed thereby is most unjust, pitiable, and cruel in the ex this country, representing as they do the largest single enter treme. price in the United States, have an equal show with men en The farmers of this country have spoken loud enough and gaged in any other business. long enough so that the veriest recluse ought to understand You men from the Atlantic seaboard, from the great manu the~- are not looking for the opportunity to borrow money, facturing districts of this country, I beg of you to hesitate be but are trying to convince the "powers that be" that they fore condemning this legislation. Permit me to quote from must have an improved market for their products or go out an article by the Washington correspondent of the Boston of business; that they are entitled to something beyond the Transcript: cost of production. The farmer, like everyone else in busi If New England industries were In the stricken condition that the ness, in all fairness, is entitled to a fair profit on the things farms of the Northwest are, there would not be enough halls in Boston he has to sell ; he should also receive a fair return on his to hold the crowds of respectable citizens that would assemble in mass inve ted capital and for his labor. Many farmers to-day meeting to protest to Washington and demand even higher tariff rates are not receiving the cost production, leaving out of the than those which now make New England industries comparatively safe question any return on investment or labor. and prosperous behind the protecting walls of the present tariff. This' It is maintained and with some merit that the farmer's the Northwest knows. price is a matter of supply and demand. To be sure all the unhappy and unfortunate conditions can not be impro1ed by Of course, the Northwest knows this; so does the Middle West, legislation. Climate, season, soils, location, and management so does every farming section in America, and I venture the are outside the law. On the other hand, it is foolish to suggestion that if heed is not given the situation by you men assert that legislation has not affected our economic situa from this great, prosperous manufacturing section of the coun tio11. The echoes have scarcely ceased in this Chamber from try that is now thriving on the results of the special privilege the discussion of such a piece of legislation. No laboring granted you through the laws of this country that the day is mau needs anyone to tell him the effects of millions of immi not distant when you will learn something of interest from the grants on his wage scale and his standard of living. No great agricultural sections of the country which you seem now railroad man needs to be told of the economic effect of the to forget Adamson or the Esch-Cummins laws. Because the farmer is CALENDAR WEDNESDAY not able to pass on the added costs which increased trans The SPEAKER. To-day is Calendar Wednesday. The Clerk portation rates impose on him and what higher wage scale will call the roll of committees. demand of him, much of the new legislation has affected him The Clerk called the Committee on Foreign Affairs. unfa rnrably. CHINESE INDEMNITY The tariff is not effective in raising price levels on his export surplus. He produces a surplus of a number of the basic Mr. PORTER. Mr. Speaker, I move to take up the resolu commodities which must find a market under world conditions. tion (H.J. Res. 248) to provide for the remission of further He buys by the American market and sells by the world payments of the annual installments of the Chinese indemnity. market If he is to survive he must be put on an American The SPEAKER. The gentleman from' Pennsylvania, chair basii;; in his selling as well as his buying. To put him on such man of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, calls up a resolution, a IJa sis is not doing him a favor. It is simply putting him on a of which the Clerk will report the title. par with the rest. It is plain justice. The McNary-Haugen The Clerk read as follows: bill, now so widely discussed, is directed straight at this price A resolution (H. J. Res. 248) to provide for the remission of further inequality which the farmer suffers under because of his pro payments of the annual installments of the Chinese indemnity. duction of a surplus whicb. must be exported. The widespread The SPEAKER. This resolution is on the Union Calendar, demand for this legislation is based on our American gospel and the House automatically resolves itself into Committee of of the "square deal." the W110le House on the state of the Union to consider it. The farmer in supporting it is simply asking that he be put The gentleman from Connecticut [Mr. TILSON] will please take on equal terms with the rest of the country who have been the chair. made the beneficiaries of Federal legislation. Accordingly the House resolved itself into Committee of the Mr. Speaker, a favorable report on this bill has been ordered Whole House on the state of the Union for the consideration b~r the House Committee on Agriculture. Exhaustive hearings of the resolution (H.J. Res. 248) to provide for the remission were held, extending over several weeks. After the hearings closed the committee took the bill up, considered it paragraph of further payments of the annual installments of the Chinese by paragraph, and for more than a month, meeting every day, indemnity, with l\:lr. TILSON in the chair. gave it most thorough consideration. Many amendments were The CHAIRMAN. The House is in Committee of the Whole offered; some rejected, but many were adopted. The bill has House on the state of the Union for the consideration of House indeed been completely revised by the committee, so that the Joint Resolution 248, which the Clerk will report. measure ordered reported may well be called the revised The Clerk read the resolution, as follows: McNary-Haugen bill. I urge every Member of this body to Joint resolution (H. J. Res. 248) to provide for the remission of study carefully the provisions of this new bill before passing further payments of the annual installments of the Chinese in judgment upon it. demnity It is not my intention. at this time to make an argument in Whereas by authority of a joint resolution of Congress approved favor of the bill, but rather to call tho attention of the Members May 25, 1908, the President of the United States was authorized to of the House as briefly as possible to it. Later on, when the remit unto China the sum of $11,961,121.76 of the Boxer indemnity bill is brought up for consideration, I shall seek the opportunity fund accredited to the United States, which sum the President on to present my views and arguments and to tell the House why December 28, 1908, duly remitted and which, at the request of China, I think the bill should be passed just as speedily as possible. was specified to be used for educational purposes; and Millions of farmers are petitioning us to pass the l\:lcNary Whereas it is deemed proper as a further act of friendship to remit Haugen bill; they believe that it will help. If this bill is not the balance of said indemnity fund amounting to $6,137,552.90 in what you think it should be in all respects, allow it to come on order farther to develop the educational and other cultural activities and let amendments be proposed. If necessary change it until of China: Now, therefore, be it a majority in this House can pronounce it good. :;.,et us act Resolt:ca, etc., That the President ls hereby authorized, in his dis promptly. Do not postpone the matter until next month or cretion, to remit to China as an act of friendship any or all further next year. The necessity has long existed-the emergency con payments of the annual installments of the Chinese indemnity due under fronts us-n is a "condition and not a theory." the bond received from China pursuant to the protocol of September 7, Tllose who object to the provisions of the bill ought, in my 1901, as modified by Executive order on the 28th day of December, opinion, to turn proposers. The objector sometimes stops 1908, pursuant to the authority of the joint resolution of Congress things-he never moves anything forward. So far as some leg- approved May 25, 1908, for indemnity against losses and expenses LXV--G08 8052 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ~IAY 7 Incurred by reason of tM scrcalled Bol:eT di turbances in China. during The foreign relations of the United States for 1901 show the year 1'900, uch remission to bcglli a.s from Oetober 1, 1917, and to conclusively by the CQrrespondence between the Hon. John Har, ~ at uch times and in sucll manner as the President 'Shall deem just. Seeretary of State, and the American minister, Ur. Conger-, Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. .Mr. Chairman-- which appears on pages 37 and 38 of the hearing:;;, that the influ The CHA.IR~IAN. For what purpose does the gentleman ence of om· Go-vernment was at all times exercised on the side rise? · of justke and moda·ation toward China in the settlement of 1 Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I rise to inquire about tOO the so-me one in oppo ition to the measure. The Chair will recognize On May 10, 1901, Mr. Hay cabled Mr. Conger: the gentleman from Pennsy1:rnnia [Ur. PORTER] to control the The aggregate sum mentioned appears exorbitant, and repeats that time on behalf of the committee and the gentleman from New this Govnnml'nt i.s willing to 1·educe by one-half its alrea.dy reasonable Hampshil"e [Mr. RoGEB ·] in oppositi.on. The g-en.tleman from claim if the other powers will make simil..ar reductions. There are grave Pennsylvania is recognized for one hour. ohjections to joint guaranty, but the President would agr~e to it, subject l\lr. PORTER Mr. Chairman, tb.e resolution before the to the action of Congress, rather than submit China to the nece~sity House (H. J. Res. 248) provides for tile remission of further of paying so enormous a .coo:unission. payments of the annual installments of the Cllinese indemnity under tbe bond of December 15., 1906. sueh remission " to be On June 15, 1907, the Hon. Elihu Root, Secretary of State, in at such times and in such manner _as the President shall deem a letter to the Chinese minister said in part: ju.st.,, It was from the first the intention of this Government at the proper In the last Congress a similar resolution, which had the time, when all claims should have been presented and all expenses active and unqualified support of President Harding and the should have been 11.Scertained as fully as possible, to revise the estimates Secretary of State, passed the Senate by a unanimous \Ote. and account against which these payments were to be made, and as It was reported unanimously by your committee but failed to proof of .sincere friendship for China to voluntarily release that country receive consideration by the House before a..djournment On from its legal liability for all payments in excess of the sum which April 29, 1924, your committee again reported tbe re'"'olution should prove to be necessary for actual indemnity of the United States with the recommendation that it pass without amendment and its citi~ns. Again it has the approval of the Secretary of State, wllo says: In reply thereto the Chinese minister said in part: I am happy to inform you thn.t I approye of the proposal in Its present f In the long run it is bound to produce results of the most hopeful parts. On the first of each month the Chinese Government sort for the regeneration of China; but meanwhile there can not be hands two checks to the American consul at Shanghai, China ; any question of the extraordinary result it has produced upon our one check he turns over to the Treasury of the United States, relations with China, or perhaps I should put it upon China's relations and the other check he indorses over for the maintenance of toward us. That has been so much the case that other nations have this college. regarded our action with a certain degree of what might almost be Mr. CHINDBLOl\I. Will the gentleman yield? ... ,. · •· termed jealousy, a feeling that we hacl rather stolen a march on Mr. PORTER. Yes. them-that our action had been so much more farsighted and so much Mr. CHINDBLO~I. My colleague [l\Ir. HULL] inquired about wiser than theirs.· There has been this feeling almost of resentment ·the private claims against China. Those private claims have in the past toward the action that we took in 1908. But that feeling all been paid, have they not? . has given way to a desire to emulate the .example that we set, and l.\.Ir. PORTER. They ha·rn all been paid and were paid years hence the efforts of other powers that -I have sketched out to you to ago. try and place themselves in the same position. It would, of course, l\fr. COLLINS. Will the gentleman yield? be a rather anomalous situation if, having initiated the more advanced l\Ir. PORTER. Yes. and enlightened policy with regard to the disposition of these some Mr. COLLINS. Is it the gentleman's opinion that all com what harsh indemnities, we were now to stop while all the others pensatory damages have been paid by China? went on following our example and trying to take advantage of the Mr. PORTER. I gave to that question a great deal of initiative that we had taken. · thought, as the gentleman well knows. For that reason it seems to me that to-day even more than when the Mr. COLLINS. I am asking for the gentleman's opinion. first bill was introduced it is a matter of obvious expediency for us to Mr. PORTER. I have been unable to reach a satisfactory go ahead with this proposal. conclusion because of this fact: FoUI'-fifths of the claim against DUI'ing the last year Great Britain, France, Italy, and Bel Cliina represents the charges made by the Army and the gimn have announced their intention to either cancel or remit Navy. There is no reduction made for the normal expense the balance of the indemnity or contemplate an early remis of those two organizations. There is really no precedent to sion of a sort similar to that the United States initiated in guide us, so I hesitate to express an opinion as to whether the 1908, and this contemplated action on the part of the other balance is punitive or compensatory damages. After having obligees of China, which, according to Mr. l\facMurray, with taken the initiative in this matter and led the other nations whose opinion I am in entire accord- of the world to do likewise, we should not allow ourselves to be put in a false position. [Applause.] creates a situation in which, if not exactly forced to action, we find The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Pennsylvania ourselves confronted with a psychological situation in which it would reserve the balance of his time? be more difficult for us to hold back now-in which the failure to go l\Ir. PORTER. Yes; I reserve the balance of my time. on with the present remission would be more likely to create a mis- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from New Hampshire . understanding than if the same thing had happened when the bill was [Mr. ROGERS] is recognized for one hour. [Applause.] first introduced. We, as you of course all realize, took the initiative l\!r. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Mr. Chairman and mem in thi-s matter in the first place. We had attempted throughout the bers of the committee, I intend to speak in opposition to the negotiations for the settlement of the Boxer difficulties to protect the resolution which is being considered this morning, and my only just interests of China and to try to bring about a settlement which hesitation in so cJoing 1s the fear that my motives may possibly should involve a little foresighted generosity as well as strict justice. be misunderstood. Therefore at the outset I wish to take the We were, as you know, not altogether successful in that. opportunity to state that I am in entire sympathy with the May I emphasize by repeating-China has pa.id compensa attempt of the great Chinese Gornrnment to secure for itself a tion in full to American citizens for damages to personal prop permanent place in the civilized world. I realize the fact that erty as the result of the Boxer uprising. The claims of the for more than 2,000 years China has suffered more than its United States for the cost of her military and naval opera share of hardships. trials, and tribulations, and I feel that I tions, amounting to $9,655,492.69, contains an item of $3,450,133 would be the very last man in this House to take any action for pensions and allows no credit for the usual and ordinary or to support any legislation which would in the slightest degree expenses for the maintenance and operation of the units which jeopardize the mutual and lasting friendship which has always operated in China. China has reimbursed the United States existed between this country and China. - for this outlay in the operation of our naval and military When I went into the committee at the beginning of the hear forces, except $66,158 of the principal debt and $6,071,391.09 ings on this resolution it was my desire to support this resolu interest. tion if it ''"as possible to find any justification for so doing. In these circumstances your committee deems it highly de But as the hearings progressed, Mr. Chairman, it appeared to sirable as a further act of friendship to remit the balance of me to be even more certain that there is not the slighte1't moral the indemnity in order further to develop the educational and or legal justification for the United States of America to other cultural activities of China. cancel this honorable and just debt owed to it by a foreign l\lr. MORTON D. HULL. Will the gentleman yield? nation, e·ren if it i · only $6,000,000. America's friend "hip for l\Ir. PORTER. Yes, sir. China is the only possible justification suggested as a ground • l\Ir. MORTON D. HULL. How much has been paid to for canceling the Chinese d~bt to America, because that is wl1at American citizens for their losses? it is; and while this resolution suggests it is a means of remit Mr. PORTER. It is less than $4,000,000. _ t1ng a certain amount of money, I ask you not to be misled l\Ir. MORTON D. HULL. And the bulk of the amount re by the term of the resolution, because it could better have mitted by this resolution, if it is adopted, represents interest been called a resolution to give $6,000,000 to China, or a resolu on the original bond? tion to cancel an honorable financial obligation of a foreign l\Ir. PORTER. If all of China's payments are credited to nation amounting to $6,000,000. As the resolution read", how principal, it represents interest on the original bond, except ever, the only alleged justification for the remission of this $66,158 balance of the principal. balance due the United States is suggested in the preamble and l\1r. WILLIAMSON. Will the gentleman yield? termed an "act of friendship." l\Ir. PORTER. Yes, sir. I ask you whether the .American Congress is ready to Ur. WILLIAMSON. Is this entire amount to be useu by establish the precedent that solely and vurely as an act of China for the purpose of educating Chinese in this country? friendship it will cancel the honest, honorable obligations l\Ir. PORTER. Tbe resolution states that the amount will of every foreign power to the United States? Are we ready be used for educational and other cultural activities of China. to cancel the debts of Armenia, Austria, Belgium, Czecho 1\11·. MORTON D. HULL. But not in this country. slovakia, Esthonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Liberia, Mr. PORTER. Not necessarily. It is left entirely in the Lithuania, Nicaragua, Poland, Rumania, or Yugoslavia? All discretion of the President We are doing a gracious thing, of these nations are indebted to us, and owe us just and hon and we should do it in a gracious way. orable debts. Are we ready as an act of friendship to cancel l\fr. WILLIAMSON. \Vill the gentleman yield further? the debt of Great Britain, amounting to $4,600,000,000? Or 1\Ir. PORTER. Yes, sir. France's debt of $3,990,658,000; or ItaJ~-·s $2,01:),079,000? l\Ir. WILLIAMSON. 'Vho has the handling of this amount? These nations owe us a total debt of nearly $12,000,000,000. Will it be handled by Chinese officials or American officials? Must we purchase the continuation of their friendship by l\Ir. PORTER. I can as ure the gentleman that the com the cancellation of their debts at the expense of the taxpayers mittee is perfectly confident that our Government will follow of America? If we are not ready to do that act of friend the plan which has been followed since the passage of the ship for these various countries, then I c;;a~· thE:'re i~ no justi Rooio:evelt resolution in 1908. The fund is divided into two fication for our canceling tlle honorable and honei::t debt ot 8054 OONGRESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE MAY 7 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~i $6,000,000 which China owes us simpcy as a further token common cause with them is abundantly confirmed by the Imperial of our respect and admiration for the Government and citi decrees transmitted in my dispatch No. 395, of August 17, and is zens of that great country. therefore responsible for the whole movement and its results. l\fr. DYER and l\Ir. O'CONNELL of New York rose. That' is my authority for the statement that the Chinese The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman yield ; and if so, to Government was back of this movement It is an official report whom? to this Government ma.de by the American minister, who was l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I yield first to my friend on the ground and who knew the facts. from New York. Mr. BLAJ\1TON and l\!r. F .!.IRCHILD rose. ]')fr. O'CONNELL of New York. Has the gentleman any 1\1r. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I yield first to my fellow evidence that we are going to get any money at all from the member of the committee. nations he has just enumerated? We have gotten some from Mr. FA.In.CHILD. I noticed in what you read that reference China. was made t.o the throne of China. Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I am sure we will not l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes. get any if we establish the precedent called for by this bill 1\Ir. FAIHCHILD. The throne of China no longer exists, and cancel all the other debts owed to this country. does it? l\Ir. DYER. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. It ensted then, and it 1\1.r. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I yield. was the recognized government of the country. 1\fr. DYER. The gentleman likens these other European l\Ir. FAIRCHILD. Under the example of the great American cases to China, but this is not for any money we loaned Republic there is now a republic we are dealing with over China an d f · , thin Mr. Roosevelt out -of a ·Sense of justice and fairness and Tttefe we "\Vere ·tn 1901 anxious le~t we aske . or. SOID;e g friendship in 'i9os, .16 ~ears ago, remitted every cent that by tb'at China could not pay, Then the State ':Department said: anN" mean~ of calculation .could be determined to be in excess Yon a.re therefore instrtiotad onee IDOI'e to urge ·upon your l!oTu!a~ of the amount to which the United States Treasury was en~ the desi.rabllity ()l agreeing upon a lump smn not to ~eed £40,-000,000 titled. 48 to be distllilmted -equitably iamong the powers, and •if fill a.gteement That settlement has been recognized as fair and just by imposSible to res States and its citizens. Such a revision has now been made by the result of an agreement between this country and China se different executive departments concerned, and I am authorized by the cured a portion of the indemnity then remitted for educational President to say that in pursuance of that revision at the next session purposes, and yearly approximately 2,500 Chinese students are of Congress he will ask for authority to reform the agreement with sent to Am~rica for education by the Chinese Government, by China under which the indemnity is fixed by remitting and canceling the provincial governments, by private individuals commercial the obligation of China for the payment of all that part of the stipu organizations, and by certain wealtlly Chines·e citi~ens. lated indemnity which is in excess of the sum of $11,655,492.69 and China is doing very well in the educational line and she interest at the stipulated rate. will continue .to do so without the cancellation of tliis debt· Accept, Mr. Minister,_ etc., because the remission of the debt in 1908, ·coupled with othe; ELIHU ROOT. sources of rHenue as mentioned above, will enable her to con~ Thus it is at once se.en that Congress was asked to remit tinue sending over here 2,500 students every year. She is every cent to which we were not honorably entitledt and Con doing very well, indeed. Some people would like to help out gress thereupon provided by a joint resolution approved May the people of Liberia, Rumania, Esthonia, and other countries 25, 1908, for the remission of $11,961,121.76. I repeat, that for 16 who o~e this country money and who do not receive great years no suggestion has been made that the balance, now approx educational advantages. Shall we cancel their debts? Here imately $6,000,000, is not justly and honestly and legally and we are establishing a precedent just as an act of friendship. morally due. I want now to read the words of the representative Now, in addition to these librarians, in addition to these well of our State Department before the Committee on Foreign meaning but misguided educational propagandists, there have Affairs, for I want you to have before you the present attitude appeared before our committee men who wanted this debt of that department. Mr. Macl\Iurray states that as a result of canceled in order that when it is remitted they may secure the action of the Congress in 1908 the Chinese are made our some of it for use in China for the purpose of advancing everlasting friends. Mr. Chairman, we can not add to that American commercial interests-- true friendship which exists by adopting this resolution. And Mr. BLANTON". That is the main reason. Mr. MacMurray says, further, that because of our act of re l\Ir: ROGERS of New Hampshire. Then there are propa mission in 1908 the Chinese look to us alone among the nations gandists who want the money to establish reclamation projects with whom they have to deal. and conservation projects. One man who appeared before our Now, what does the representative of the State Department committee wanted this money used for flood control. Another coµtinue to say? He says that the original indemnity was witness who appeared before our committee suggested that he purely a legal obligation, but that it was a moral obligation for would not object if this money was used in China to double us to remit everything we ought not to have, and that we ful track the railroads. filled this moral obligation by the 1908 remission. Mr. PORTER. Will the gentleman yield? Now he says we are dealing with the question of a further l\1r. ROGERS of New Hampshire. All of these objects are remission, where there is no moral obligation involved. Listen undoubtedly worthy, but how long since bas the American to .this: Government been interfering with the governments of the other Because we are legally and morally entitled to the amount of the nations of the world and attempting to tell them what they bond as adjusted in 1908. shall do with their own intema.l enterprises? Mr. I>ORTER. Will the gentleman yield? - Mr. PORTER. Will the gentleman continue the sentence? l\1r. l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Let us stay out of other ROGERS of New Hampshire. The gentleman has an people's business and mind our own. [Applause.] I will vield opportunity to reply, and I would be glad to have him read it to my chairman. · in his own time. My own time is limited. Mr. PORTER. I desire to call the attention of the gentle- Mr. PORTER. I think the gentleman should read the whole man to the terms of the resolution : sentence. Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I want to impress upon That the President is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to rP.mit the committee the statement of the representative of the State to Chlna- Department that we are legally and morally entitled to every And so forth. Further on- cent of this $6,000,000. It has always been my opinion that when a nation is legally and morally entitled to a debt, then we Such remissi'on to begin from October 1, 1917, and to be at such as representatives of our constituents, who are the taxpayers times aud in such manner as the President shall deem just. of America, have no legal or moral right to cancel it. Now. does the gentleman think that the President will allow Mr. BLANTON. Will the gentleman yield for a question? this money to be used for purposes of exploitation? l\lr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I will. .l\fr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Those words show that Mr. BLAl~TO.N. Why does not the gentleman tell us the there was doubt as to bow this money would be used, and real reason for presenting this joint resolution? therefore the chairman added the words " to develop the edu Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I am coming to that in cational and other cultural activities of China." Note, how a moment. The chairman of the committee asked me to read ever, that these words appear simply in the preamble, \Yhere the balance of the sentence in Mr. MacMurray's testimony, they have no effect, and that the resolution itself contains no from which I read a moment ago. It is of the same purport limitation clauses whatever. Why, gentlemen, China has a and winds up by saying that if we cancel this debt it will culture older than that of the United States of America, but be a manifestation of "magnanimity and finer feeling." Would the gentleman knows that this resolution would not pass unless it not be as much a manifestation of magnanimity and fine he referred in the preamble to the advancem·ent of education feeling to cancel Great Britain's debt, to cancel those of France, and culture. Belgium, Rumania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Liberia, Latvia, If we annul this debt, let us not attach a string to it and say, and all other nations who are financially obligated to America? " If you do not use it the way we suggest, we will take it Of course, it would. back." If China owes this money, then let us permit that Mr. BLANTON. That is not the real reason. nation, as we propose to permit other governments who owe Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. That is not the real money to us, to pay its honest and just obligations. [Applause.] reason. I am coming to that. What is the real reason? I Now, then, just for a moment, let me come to another sug have established that this debt is a moral and legal debt of gestion. honor owed by China to this country and we are asked with Mr. KV ALE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield before out any justification to cancel such a debt of a friendly power, he leaves that point? which is willing to pay and which has not even asked that it l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes; I yield. be extended. I believe it is one of the essential attributes in Mr. KV ALE. Purely a.s a matter of information, while I can the development of character, whether it be among men or see the gentleman's position and fully realize that there may be nations1 that they shall recognize and discharge their just, some other reason which is not stated openly, I would llke to moral, and legal financial obligations. [Applause.]. Now, what know what position, if any, is taken toward this proposal by are the reasons, the real reasons, advanced to cancel this debt, the missionaries from the United States who are at present in which for 16 years has been recognized as an honorable debt? China? The resolution states it as "an act of friendship." You gentle Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Why, of course, Mr. Chair men know that we who represent the ta:xpayers of this coun man, if it can be done legally, the missionaries who are doing try have no moral or legal right to cancel an honorable debt, work in China as in any other country would like to have more universally recognized as such and recognized as such by the money to work with, and there have been some missionaries other government which owes it, without express authoriza ! think two or three-who appeared before our committee. ex tion of those who sent us here. But some well-meaning edu pressing the hope that this sum woul Government, but looking at it as a pos.sible means of securing 'This is not a case of punitive damages. Our State Depart further appropriations to assist them in doing a noble work ment recognizes it, and ~mbers of the committee throughout 11n that country. the hearings insisted that they were not punitive damages. The Mr. KVALE. But the gentleman will concede that the mis- gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. TEMPLE] said repeatedly sionaries in China take the moral and ethical view of the that he would not admit that they were punitive damages and ,matter? originally an unjust debt. · Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes; and I will also con- Mr. FAIRCHILD. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? cede that the American missionaries who are working in Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I yield for one more brief Africa or in Russia or in other countries who owe us money question. would be glad if Congress would remit the debts owing from Mr. FAIRCHILD. I did attend bearings in this Congress those countries in order that that money might be used for and I attended all the hearings on a similar bill in the last missionaries. • Congress. Is it not a fact that all of the damages to Amerl- Mr. KV ALE. I do not think that anybody in this country can citizens have been paid in full, and that those damages who is properly informed would be desirous of remitting the amounted to less than $4,000,000, but in addition to the debts which those o.ther countries owe to us. $4,000,000 we have been paid up to the total of $12,000,000? Is l\Ir. ROGEJRS of New Hampshire. It is a question of what not that a fact? we ought to do as representatives of the American people; Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshlre. Certainly; it is a fact. whether we ought to establish the precedent of annulling the Mr. FAIRCHILD. All -right. Then, based on that fact, we m-0ral and legal obligations of foreign countries. The Japanese have a right to a difference of opinion; but I again insist that example, which the chairman cited, was not at all in point. this Government, in combination with other governments, ex Without authority beforehand the representatirns of this Gov- acted from China what this Go\ernment never should have ernment exacted indemnities from Japan which ought never to exacted and never should have established a precedent for, have been demanded, and finally the State Department frankly namely, punitive damages. and we have been paid over admitted that we had no right to take such an indemnity from $8,000,000 for our Navy and marines over there. Japan, and in due time we remitted those debts. It was the Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. The gentleman knows that only course we could honorably take, and we were glad to deal we exacted punitive damages, but that seven years later, under honorably and fairly with Japan, as indeed we are with every Secretary Root and President Roosevelt, we canceled all of other nation in tbe world. the debt which represented punitive damages. We did the Mr. KVALE. And if this were to be a precedent for can- square thing by canceling onr punitive damages 16 years ago. celiog the debts of other nations I would not favor it. l\Ir. FAIRCHILD. Will the gentleman yield? ~Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. There is no doubt but lUr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. No; I refuse to yield that this is a legal and moral obligation of a foreign power, further, because I have only a few minutes left. I want to say and if we remit it we do establish the most dangerous precedent these are not punitive damages., and that is recognized and for remitting every dollar of our foreign debt. acknowledged by the State Department. What we did in China l\lr. OOLEJ of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman was, according to international law, an act of intervention. It Jield? was not an act of war, but it was an act of intervention for the Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes. purpose of protecting American citizens and property, as statoo Mr. COLE of Iowa. ls it not true that the missionaries by Secretary of State Hay in his note to China in 1900. In that who were heard before the committee did say that in their note he says, regarding the purpose of the President: be opinion the remission of these debts would an evidence The purpose of the President is, as it has been heretofore, to act con of good will toward China? _ . currenUy with the other powers, first, in opening uP communication lUr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Of course, they said it with Peking and rescuing the .American officials, missionaries, and other would be an evidence of friendly feeling, anu would give Americans wh<> are in danger; secondly, in affording all possible protec rise to a friendly feeling toward the United States on the tion everywhere in China to American life and property; thirdly, in part of China. But I asked them whether there was a guarding and protecting all legitimate American interests; and, fourthly, friendly feeling in China toward the United States at the in aiding to prevent a spread of the disorders to the other Provinces of present time, and they said that the feeling of the Chinese the Empire and a recurrence of such disasters. toward the Government and people of the United States is not equaled by any oth€r nation in the world. He further said that the United States proposed to protect all One of the witnesses asserted that there is no difference rights guaranteed to friendly powers by treaty ~nd international between this debt and the debts of other countries, and as law. And it is a well-recognized principle of international law serted that if we annul this debt other nations will desire to that when one nation has to intervene to protect its citizens in come into a conference with us, the purpose of which is the a foreign nation and is compelled to exercise police powers, so cancellation of debts, and thereby we will open up a wide to speak, then it is entitled to every cent of the necessary ex avenue of discussion. Uy colleague on the committee, l\1r. penses which enter into such an expeqition of intervention, and CoLE of Iowa, well stated the situation when he said the that is all we asked of China. She has been glad to pay it and following argument would be used: "All right; we will for· has been paying it, and fo1· 16 years nobody has ever suggested give the Chinese debts; let us have another and larger con that she refrain from keeping on paying it, after the amount due ference and see if we can not forgive the debts of the was finally adjusted in 1908. world." We are establishing a dangerous precedent, gentle One other point and then I am through. The chairman of the men. eommittee suggests that othee nations are going to remit. For l\1r. FAIRCHILD. l\Ir. Chairman, will the gentleman heaven's sake, let tliero remit. We remitted our punitive dam yield? ages 16 years ago, and the other nations are just 16 years be l\1r. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes. hind us. [Applause.] l\Ir. FAIRCHILD. Does my colleague contend that the After they see fit to 1·emit their punitive damages, then let remission of a penalty as a consequence of mob violence is a tL9 get together~ if at all, and talk about remitting the rest of precedent for the remission of a debt on borrowed money? the debt. No wonder they now talk about remitting. They There is not a Member of this House who is more oppose9 have h~ld on to what did not belong to them for 16 yea.rs, while to the remission of the indebtedness of European nations who we gave it back 1G years ago. came over and borrowed from us than I. But there is no Mr. LAZARO. Will the gentleman yield? precedent that is going to be established by remitting some Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes. thing that never ought to have been charged and which con Mr. LAZARO. The gentleman is thoroughly familiar with the stitutes punitive damages. hearings. Was there developed at any time during the hearings Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Yes; and that is the the fact that there was any pressure ~rought to bear from reason why the Government annulled this debt, in so far as .Americans engaged in business in China to pass this resolution punitive damages were concerned. If the gentleman had at on the ground that it would create better friendly relations? tended the meetings of his committee, he wou1d understand .that Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Oh, no; absolutely nothing the e damages are not punitive, but as the State Department of that sort was developed. I think the universal consensus of well said, they constitute moral and legal debt due to the United opinion is, and I think the undi puted evidence is, as stated by States. Tbe gentleman's hypothesis is ·wrong. If they were Mr. l\IacMurray, of the State Department, that when we canceled punitive damages, they would have been annulled in 1908. I the. ·e punitive damages in 1008 w-e did a magnanimous thing for will .suggest to my friend that if he will look thrcmgh all the Ohina. That showed our sense of justice, fairness, and honesty, evidence carefully he can not help coming to the conclusion no and China will never forget it, and she is friendly to us to-day. attempt is made to base a moml ob.ligation on punitive She recognizes this is an honorable debt ; she bas never sug ds.uiages. gested that it be canceled or remitted, and she stands ready 8058 OONGRESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE· and willing and desirous of paying it. You are not doing any Mr. LINTHICUM. Yes; and I am coming to that point. body an act of friendship or justice-whether it is an individual l\lr. PORTER. Did we make any charge against Germany, or nation-if they owe a moral and legal obligation unless you for our naval and military operations? · permit them to pay it. And, l\Ir. Chairman, just as we propose Mr. LINTHICUM. Certainly not; and if we had, we would to permit Armenia, Belgium, Great Britain, Yugoslavia, Czecho not have g(}tten it. slovakia, Italy, France, Esthonia, Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Mr. PORTER. Should we not treat China as fairly as we and all the rest of our debtor nations to pay their honest and treated Germany? just obligations, which they recognize are due this Government, Mr. LIYTHICUM. I should certainly think that would be so let us permit China to do what she is honorably bound to do the desire of this House. and what she is willing to do, pay us what she owes us. [Ap What I was µ.rriving at was that all there is left of the plause.] principal of this indebtedness is $66,158. So that all the Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time. balance of the fund which we propose to remit represents Mr. KINDRED. Will the gentleman yield for just a minute? interest on this assessment. Now, where is this money coming l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. I will yield for a brief from? It is not in the United States Treasury. We never did question. h.ave it in the United States Treasury. It comes from this Mr. KINDRED. The gentleman, by his able argument, shows direction. We collect certain customs. At the present time that he is very familiar with all the details of this measure. our portion of these customs we collect is $110,000 a month I wish to ask him if the hearings disclosed the fact that the from the custom ports of China. This is drawn in two checks, missionaries and other representatives of the Protestant and one of $65,000 and one of $45,000, and the Government indorses other churches in China are in favor of this measure? the ..'65,000 clieck over to China for educational purposes in Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Those who were there China according to the order of the President, and the $45,000 wanted it, but I do not know what those who were not there comes into the United States Treasury. What we propose to want or how they feel about it Only two or three appeared, do by this bill is to indorse the check for the entire fund over and they were for it I do not know the attitude of the others. to China for the same purposes. The great question involved here, however, is one of principle, Mr. O'CO~T1\~LL of New York. Will the gentleman yield? not of charity. Mr. LINTHICUM. Certainly. The CHA.IRMAN. The gentleman reserves nine minutes. Mr. O'CONNELL of New York. Is it not a fact that China Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 minutes to the gen has not defaulted on a single payment since this began? tleman from l\Iaryland [l\Ir. LINTHICUM]. l\lr. LINTHICUl\l That is absolutely correct, except that The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Maryland is recog the Governments suspended payments during the war, but eyen nized for 10 minutes. then China kept up the educational payments. l\lr. LINTHICUM. Mr. Chairman, I do not propose to get The honesty of China is proverbial. excited over this Chinese indemnity proposition because there Although we were allotted $12,479,000 plus, according to is nothing to be excited about. On page 19 of the hearings the statement on page 4, which, mind you, included all the it will be seen that the United States Government believed expenses of the War Department, all the expenses of the that the allied powers were charging China or assessing China _sailors and marines, all the repairs to battle. hips, both in China too much money. and when they returned, all of the medicine which we used or Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Will the gentleman yield which was used in the expedition, all the pay and mileage of right there? the officers, all the expenses of the Ordnance Department, all . Mr. LINTHICUM. Let me get started before I am asked to the expenses of the Sirna! Corps, and after doing all that we yield. included $2,000,000 for pensions.; and after we did all tliat, Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Is it not a fact that the as this statement will show, our total charge against China allied powers barn never remitted one cent? was $7,846,000, and yet we were to receive $12,479,000 as shown Mr. LINTHICUM. That is not wholly correct, but I will by following statement: get to that in a few minutes. The United States Government, realizing that the allied powers were assessing China too nrnch Estimated cost of China relief e:rpedition (as submitted March ts, 1901) War Department: Deposited at Hongkong to credit of money, sent the following note to the representatives of this General Chaffee for contingencies______$10, 000 .00 Govei:nment: Quartermaster General's Department: Transportation, equipment, etc., of troops, animals, and supplies _____ 1 5, 426, 80 . 22 The President Is anxious lest the aggregate of the claims of the Subsistence Department: Expenfle France and the other countries of Europe owe us? Would it The French Government has taken the most definite action of any not establish a precedent? I maintain that those debts stand nation thus far. They, almost two years ago, entered into an agree· absolutely upon a different basis. Here is a debt which China ment with the Chinese Government by which the entire balance of owes us from a previous empire government. The present the French share of the indemnity is to be devoted to certain specified Government of China is a democratic government, certainly objects. The primary object is the rehabilitation of the Industrial not responsible in any way for the actions charged by Mr. Bank of China, a French institution which went bankrupt and caused ROGERS of New Hampshire, whether they be correctly stated very heavy financial losses and great damage to French prestige a or not. few years ago. Such sums as are necessary of the French indemnity 1\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Will the gentleman are to be devoted to the rehabilitation of that bank and the payment yield? ot creditors who lost through its failure. It is, of course, entirely a Mr. LrnTIDCUM. I will. matter of speculation whether there will be anything left over, but Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. In view of your sugges the arrangement with the Chinese Government and the bill as passed tion, that it is a debt of a previous government, does the gen by the French Chambers provide that any contingent balance that there tleman advocate remitting all of Germany's obligations at the may be shall be used for what the French call "reuvres." That term present time? is rather difficult to explain in English. I suppose " cultural institu Mr. LINTHICUM. Oh, I do not advocate releasing Ger tions " is the nearest one can come to giving an idea of what is im many from anything whatever, but the point I am trying to plied by it. In other words, it is primarily for the purpose of the make is that the charges which were made against the Gov rehabilitation of that bank, whose failure was vei;y considerable, and ernment of China would apply to the empire and not to the secondarily for cultural purposes. present democracy, and that the present Government, largely The Governments of Italy and Belgium have made no definite in inspired by our system of government, should not be punished dication of the purposes to which they would devote their indemnity for the mistakes of a monarchy. But getting back to the point if they remitted it. They have not, in fact, taken any positive action as to the uifference between this debt and the debts of Euro toward remitting; but it is rather generally understood-certainly as pean countries-- a matter of gos ip in the diplomatic body in Peking-that the Italian 1\Ir. CONNALLY of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? and Belgian Governments are contemplating an early remission and l\lr. LINTHICUM. In just a minute. In the case of the are probably waiting to see what is done by the powers who are more debts that France and other counh·ies of Europe owe us, that greatly interested, such as the United States, Great Britain, and Japan. was money we took out of our Treasury and loaned them in That creates a situation in which, if not exactly forced to action, good faith to carry on the war. This is a debt which we our we find ourselves confronted with a psychological situation in which selves assessed against China, and which we admit was it would be more difficult for us to hold back now-in which the failure $4,000,000 more than it ought to have been, and we are now to go on with the present remission would be more likely to create a simr)ly remitting something that we ought never to have misunderstanding than if the same thing bad happened when the biU charged them, and not only are we doing that, but we are was first introduced. We, as ~· ou of course all realize, took the initin. practically directing how this money is t<> be expended. We tive in this matter in the first place. We had attempted throughout are leaving it in the hands of the President to say when it the negotiations for the settlement of the Boxer difficulties to protect shall be paid, bow it shall be paid, and we are providing by the just interests of China to try to bring about a settlement which the preamble of th.is joint resolution to what purposes we de should involve a little foresighted generosity as well as strict justice. sire it applied. We were, as you know, not altogether successful in that. The CHAIRMAN (l\Ir. CHINDBLOM). The time of the gentle man has expired. Gentlemen, it seems to me that with the great friendship l\lr. PORTER. I yield the gentleman five additional minutes. e.xisting between the United States and China, with the great Mr. LINTHICUM. I want to call yaur attention to the re educational features involved in this joint resolution, it is as port on page 3 as to what other governments are doing in this little as this Congress can do to at least remit an indebtedness matter. which we ought never to have collected and which we as~erted The previous British Government announced in Parliament in the beginning was $4,491,000 in excess of what we thought its intention to cancel or to remit the balance of the indemnity proper. due to Great Britain by China. Mr. DYER. Will the gentleman yield? As to Japan, l\1r. M~cMurray said: Mr. LINTHICUM. I will. .Japan has likewise taken action, we understand. Though our in Mr. DYER. The gentleman knows, as all Americans know, formation about that is not so full as I should wish it were, in order that we are spending in China now-that is. the American that I might give you positive details, we have received from our people through the Christian m~~sionaries-::iomething in the embassy in Tokyo n report that it is unofHcially stated that the neighborhood of $10,000.000 a year, and have been doing that Japanese cabinet has decided that the whole of the Japanese sharP. for years. This remission is going for the same purpose for of the Boxer indemnity now. outstanding shall be remitted to China which we have expended millions of dollars-to help in the edu for cultural purposes of mutual benefit to China and Japan. cation of the Chinese. Mr. LINTIDCUM. I do not think that it goes in the same The French Government has remitted it to apply to certain exact direction. This goes _for specific educational and cul purposes-the payment of the debts of the Industrial Bank of tural purposes. China, a defunct bank, and to pay its depositors. Mr. DYER. It is for the same general purpose. The Governments of Italy and Belgium are talking about Mr. LINTIDCUY. Certainly for the same general cultural remitting it The whole situation, however, is more accurately plans, and is approved by the organizations and people who shown by the following, from the testimony of Mr. John V. A. are doing the missionary work you are good enough to mention. l\IacMurray, chief of our division of· far eastern affairs: Mr. BYRNS of Tenne::isee. Will the gentleman yield? When the Secretary wrote, there was a rather vague prospect that Mr. LINTHICUM. I yield to the gentleman from Tennessee. some of the other governments might consider the question of a re l\fr. BYRNS of Tennessee. I want to ask the gentleman a mission of a sort similar to that which we had initiated in 1908. question for information. The gentleman speaks of remitting Since that time the British Government-the previous Briti,sh G9vern a debt we ought never to have assessed. Is it not a fact that ment, not the one now in omce-has announced in Parliament its we have already remitted all the balance of the debt, amount· intention to cancel or to remit the balance of the indemnity due to ing to something like $12,000,000? Great Britain. The question was for some time in doubt whether the Mr. LINTIDCUM. We remitted a very large portion of it, British under their constitution could do that without an act of after the payment of all indebtedne5s which we had charged Parliament. Apparently the decision has been that an act of Parlia against Chlna for individuals and other purposes. The part ment is required. We understand that an act for that purpose is now I say we ought not to have charged was the 40 per cent in pending in the British Parliament, 11.nd that to the best of our in excess of what we had really expended in this expedition. formation-of course, it can only be a matter of opinion-that bill is Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. Has not that already been re entirely likely to pass. mitted? Japan has likewise taken action, we understand. Though our in l\Ir. LINTHIOU~L A large portion has been remitted, but · formation about that is not so full as I should wish it were, in order the bulk of this fund is made up of interest that I might give you positive details, we have received from our Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Will the gentleman yield? embassy in Tokyo a report that it is unofficially stated that the Mr. LINTHICUM. I will. Japanese cabinet has decided that the whole of the Japanese share of Mr. W ATh'WRIGHT. What assurance have we that if this the Boxer indemnity now outstanding shall be remitted to China for balance is remitted it will be applied to the purposes of educa cultural purposes of mutual ben!fit to China and Japan. tion and civilization? CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE l\Ir. LINTHICUM. The preamble to the joint resolution science to be established in tbe country, and the other is for the ititro provides that it shall go for educational and cultural purposes. duetion of tbe American public library into China. The experience of many years that we have had with China The reason I happened to be in Peking was becaus~ I was getting demonstrates that they will use it for that purpose. The pro signers to a petition which the Chinese had drawn up in relation to vision in the bill giving the President power over the fund establ1shing public libraries in China with a portion of the Boxer in gives him the power to designate that it shall go for that demnity i! remitted by the United States. I had the privilege of purpose. meeting some of the great leaders in China in connection with this Mr. WAINWRIGHT. Is it contemplated that that condition plan: Dr. Wellington Koo (Minister of Foreign Affairs) ; Dr. C. T. will be imposed upon the remission? Wong, then negotiating between Russia and China; W. W. Yen, former l\lr. LINTHICUl\I. The preamble is put in here for that minister to Germany and former prime minister; and others. I also purpose. To call attention to the will and desire of Congress. met the President, Li-Yuan-Hung, and had a most satisfactory inter· 1\Ir. WAINWRIGHT. But the preamble is different from the view with him. He spoke bighly of America. As I came out from that enactment feature. interview I said to his secretary, "Did President Li-Yuan-Bung care .Mr. LINTHICUM. I realize that, but China has requested for that picture of George Washington I sent him?" "Yes; he appre· it to be used for that purpose, and I have no doubt it will re ciated it very much. He put it up in f!ont of his desk and if you quest it in this instance, otherwise the President will not could go into his office where all the state papers are' written you remit it, I presume, unless it be for some dire calamity. would find there the picture of George Washington in a prominent I feel that wben we help China in her educational and place." You can see from these few examples the attitude of some of cultural lines we help ourselves and the world generally. the highest men of China toward the United States. I found this sam~ China has always been our friend, we do much. business feeling everrwhere I went. • together, our relations have been particularly agreeable, and Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Mr. Chairman I yield 1 the splendid use she is making of this money is mighty grati five minutes to the gentleman from Texas [Mr. BL~TON]. fying. In concluding my remarks I will add a short excerpt Mr. BLANTON. Mr. Chairman, it is an awful easy matter from the testimony of D1·. Edward H. Hume, president of Yale to give away somebody else's money. China owes this debt. College in China, who has been there since 1905. Doctor Hume There is no question about that. says: In 1908 we remitted or forgave $11,961,000 to China. We The progress that has been made in this province in an educational then gave China that much. She owes this balance of the way is due in considerable measure to the friendly interest that the debt now of $6,000,000. Here is the situation: There are United States showed to them in this great act of 1908. People are commercial interests in the United States who are seeking coming in constantly to make inquiries of our educators, even about to increase their business with China. They know that every business matters, and to get advice in regard to educational matter,s. littl~ gift that we can make over there increases the good This is unquestionably due in large measure to the friendliness whtch feeling toward them as owners of commercial enterprises was exhibited in that first act o! 1908. Look at the educational lead in America. It increases their business. It enables them to ership that is being developed in the various colleges, and consider enlarge their business. You can lay aside all the educational the fact that such leadership has grown under the influence of nren excuses and the missionary excuses and other business, there who have returned to China from this country. For instance, take is the main reason for this bill. Commercially they want us Southeastern University, and you will find that its president is an to give this money back to China for private benefits. American-trained man; take Nankai University, whose president is Mr. COLE of Iowa. Will the gentleman yield? also an American-trained man ; take the National Government Uni Ur. BLANTON. I can not yield in five minutes. On the :versity at Peking, and while the president ls not an American-train~d 24th day of March, 1924, the Rules Committee came in here man, because the school was established in the olq regime, a large part with a special rule, s~ying it was urgent, giving $10,000,000 of the strur is composed of American-trained men. to Germany. They passed it with two hours debate. It was In a very large measure this condition has resulted froru the re urgent on the 24th day of l\farch. I called that political mission of a pa.rt of this indemnity in 1908. The Chinese national when it came in here. It was political, for if it had not been educational system to-day is being modeled on the American system, political the Senate of the United States would have long since largely because of the .confidence that has been established through passed it but it has not yet been even reported to the Senate. our educational relationships. Prof. Paul Monroe, of Columbia, has It is held up and pigeonholed in the Senate committee where had great influence in shaping the Chinese educational system. They it belonged and where it ought to die, and that is where this have studied our system of education, and the fact that they have bill ought to die. adopted it so largely is due to this act of friendliness on the part of I am liberal with my own money-too liberal, and that is our Government in 1908. These results have followed that generous the reason I have not got any. But I am careful about other act on the part of this Government. people's money when put in my charge, when I am a guardian, Tsing Hua College, about which Ml'. PORTER has spoken, is a direct and you are the guardians of the people's Treasury. You are result of this action in 1908. I was talking with the present president the trustee of the public funds that come in taxes out of of that college and with .a former president not long ago, and they the people's pockets. What are you going to do, give it away? called my attention to what has been mentioned here this m'orning, In 1908 we ga·rn back to China $11,961,000. Do you know and that is that wbile indemnity payments to the American and Euro in addition to the private claims against China for deaths pean Governments were allowed to be postponed during the period of ensuing committed by the Government of China we spent the war, payments to the college, on behalf of its educational pro in military operations $7,000,000. We spent in naval opera gram, were not suspended. The program of that college, and the send-• tions two and one half million dollars. China has never paid ing of students to the United States, was never discontinued during 1 cent of inteTest, and interest is just as much a part of the the war. The understanding l'egarding the use of indemnity funds btts debt as the principal. If I can not pay my friend from been carried out, without any turning aside, sinee it was reached in :1908. Illinois a debt I owe him and he gives me a chance to pay it in installments, the interest la j.ust as much a pa.rt of that I also append part of the testimony of Miss l\lary Elizabeth honorable debt as the principle. We ought not to remit one Wood, of Boon University Library at Wuchang, China, whlch cent, it is a debt of honor that Ohina owes us. gives an insight into the educational work: What are you going to do about the banditry that they I happened to have the privilege of being at the national educational maintain in the mountains of China preying on the public conference for a whole week. There were about 10 foreigners there, all the time. That Government is re11ponsible for it. I want .and amongst them tour Americans. Every morning the questions of to say to the committee that every year for 20 years this education were debated. The two men wllo presided were represenm Government has had to maintain in China a regiment of tive men. one a graduate of Columbia and president of the Nankai Uni soldiers for the protection of our people. China has not paid versity. I visited this university and one would have thought it was a dollar of that expense. We have paid every dollar of the an American university transpl:lnted into China; it is located in expense to maintain these soldiers in China for the protection Tientsln, and is up to date, progressive, and everything that reminds of our people who go there, for the protection of our ministers, one of an American institution. Shortly after, I visited Southeastern for the protection of international law, and for the protection . University, founded by Doctor Kno, also a graduate of. Columbia, and of commerce during the past 20 years. We have never re· there one can see American educational ideals set forth in every ceived a cent for it, and now you want to give away $6,000,· department. • • • • • * • 000 more. [Applause.] Probably the suggestion of this National Assodatlon fox the Advance The CHAffiMAN: The time of the gentleman from Texas ment of Education, as to the best uses o! the Boxer indemnity money has expired. for educational purposes, will haYe great weight. The organization bas l\lr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield fire minutes to the already unanimously indorsed two pl(l.Ds. One is for a school of applied gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr.• BROWNE]. 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8061 Mr. BROWNE of Wisconsin. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Wis of the committee, I am in favor of this bill because I believe it consin has expired. will help one of the greatest educational movements the world Mr. DYER. llr. Chairman, will the gentleman from Penn has ever seen. The nations engaged with the United States in sylvania yield the gentleman half a minute so that I may ask putting down the Boxer rebellion attempted to fix a much him a question? larger indemnity than the United States thought was right. 1\fr. PORTER. I yield half a minute to the gentleman. John Hay, our Secr·etary of State, through our minister, Mr.. Mr. DYER. Did it not develgp in the committee that as Conger, suggested $150,000,000 or $200,000,000 the lump sum a result of our just and humane action in the remission of for all the nations engaged in the undertaking. The indemnity the amount heretofore it redounded to the good of American was fixed, however, at $330,000,000. The share of the United commerce to the extent of many hundreds of millions of States of this amount was fixed by the allies at $24,440,778.81. dollars? Quite a portion of this amount was punitive damage and did Mr. BROWNE of Wisconsin. Unquestionably; and we have not represent actual costs or expenses incurred by our Gov filled our universities with bright young men from China, who ernment. One of the greatest accomplishments of the Roose have benefited not only themselves but our own students with velt administration in its foreign policy was the remittance at whom they have come in contact. that time of part of this indemnity fund. President Roosevelt 1\1r. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield one minute to the at the time made the suggestion that the amount remitted be gentleman from Delaware [Mr. BOYCE]. used for educational purposes. The result was that China Mr. BOYCE. Mr. Chairman, I am in full accord and sym took this in the spirit in which it was offered, and has reli pathy with this resolution and shall vote its passage when it giously ever since that time used the indemnity fund remis comes before the House. I yield back the remainder of my • sion for educational purposes. What has been the result? It time. not only aided in the establishment of several universities in Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield five minutes to the China but to-day in the United States we have 2,200 Chinese gentleman from Virginia [Mr. MooRE]. students in American universities, and 700 of them are being l\lr. MOORE of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, as a member of the supported from this indemnity fund. When these students first Committee on Foreign Affairs I favor this resolution. The reso came here under the Chinese Boxer indemnity fund it caused lution really provides for a conditional remission of the balance others to come, and that has swelled the attendance to 2,200 that is due from China under its obligation to the Government students that we have enrolled in our various universities of the United States. 'l'he condition is that the President may to-day. How is it affecting the education movement over in ~xercise his .discretion and fL"'"\: the terms on which the liability China? To-day there are 7,000,000 students over in China who is to be remitted and to perform that duty in such manner as are going to school and receiving what they call a western to insure the use of the funds representing the balance that re education; 5,000,000 of these students are going to public mains due for educational or cultural purposes. That, fairly schools. This great educational movement bad its inception in stateu, is the scope of tile resolution. It is not uu actual outri()"ht0 the turning over of part of the indemnity fund, which was extinguishment, but a remission sub modo. used for educational purposes. The testimony before our com Gentlemen say that we ought not to do this because it will mittee was that the educational facilities are not nearly violate precedents. Let us bring that argument to a very simple sufficient to accommodate the people who ru·e eager to get an test. The Boxer rebellion occurred something like a quarter of education. The youths of China are hungry for leaming and a century ago. The United States could very properly have hungry for our western culture and education. One of the rea refrained from exacting at;ly indemnity from China whatever, and sons why China became a Republic undoubtedly was because of would have been within its constitutional and moral right in so the new ideas that the students who came to our great univer doing. With respect to the precedents, they are all, I believe, to sities took back to China, and the influences of their own uni the ~ffect that our Government bas refrained from any exactions versities which are being supported in part by this indemnity on account of military expenditures connected with quelling a fund. We want this movement to go on, and instead of a disturbance in some foreign country involving American in monarchy over in the Orient, we want a great Chinese Repub terests or in connection with any war in which the United States lic. We want a Republic patterned after the United States. has engaged with some foreign country. We have not dreamed They now have a splendid constitution, quite similar to ours. of calling upon Germany to pay our military expenses incurred If you go into the banks or business places in the great com during the course of that war. I do not think that we called mercial centers of China, you will see in many of them the for any payment on account of the Vera Cruz incident in Mexico. pictures of Washington and Lincoln. They believe in America I do not know that we call for any payment on account of our and admire our great statesmen. In this resolution we are present activities in Honduras. It has been the attitude, the simply remitting the interest back on the principal which has almost unbroken custom of the United States, as I understand been paid. Our action and the tremendous good that it has not to insist upon the payments of that character, and so I may accomplished in education and in good will has so affected the say confidently that at the close of the Boxer rebellion there other nations that France and England and several other was not a man or woman in the United States who would have nations, poor as they are, are doing just what we are going criticized our Government if it had foregone any payment on to do and have done, remitting the balance due them back to account of it. But a demand was made and .it was determined China for the great work of education. that China should pay the United States something like $24,000,- Mr. KVALE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? 000. In 1908 there was a remission, by act of Congress, and it Mr. BROWNE of Wisconsin. Yes. then or soon appeared that China had paid all the claims of the Mr. KV ALE. Is there any reason to believe that any part private citizens of this Government on account of injuries that of this $6,000,000 will ever be diverted to any other purpose? they had sustained. My proposition is that if there was no Mr. BROW.NE of Wisconsin. I do not believe a cent of it requirement that the United States ask for indemnity, there is will be diverted to any other purpose. We put it in the pre now no good reason against the remission. amble that the indemnity formerly remitted was used by 1\1r. CONNALLY of Texas. Let me make the suggestion that China for educational purposes. We did not think it was back of the original settlement there was a pool of all of the necessary to put it into the resolution, because the word of nations, and perhaps that had its effect on what we should have the Chinese nation has always been good. If you go into done. We might not have exacted as much as we did except for many of the banks in Japan and other places in the Orient, that. you will very often find the men who are acting as cashiers Mr. MOORE of Virginia. There is little doubt about that. and counting the money are Chinamen. The world has confi Almost certainly except for the fact that other nations were dence in their honesty. China will keep her word without strenuously urging payment, there would not have been any any command of legislation. Just simply the suggestion of demand by our Government, and in that event there would have President Roosevelt that it would be a fitting thing to use been no occasion for the action now proposed. the indemnity fund returned was sufficient for China, who has The CHAIRM~~. The time of the gentleman from Virginia religiously expended every cent of this money that she has has expired. received for educational purposes. To-day, as I say, educa Mr. MOORE of Virginia. Just two or three minutes. tion is growing faster than ever before. Newspapers, with Mr. PORTER. I can not without taking time from others. their great educational influence, are springing up through Mr. "UPSHAW. Give him two of my minutes. out China; libraries are being started in all the larger cities; Mr. PORTER. I yield the gentleman two additional minutes. and China, with her 400,000,000 people, is soon going to be Mr. MOORE of Virginia. I am very much obliged to my • a great power in the world, and, I believe, outside of the friend from Georgia. It is certain that when this money is paid by the GoYernment at Peking it will l>e used for what is most splendid purpose of education9 the good will of China and the Chinese people would amply pay us in remitting this amount. important in China to-day. China has suffered greatly in many 8062 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE n!.Kt. 7 ways. She has suffered 'from fire, sword, 8.nd :ta.min~ . as few is not h1ca!pable -0f the sentiments 'of gratiturle, that China peoples have suffered. She is struggling on now toward bettar has not :forgotten that ·ttle gt-eat Unitetl .States befriended her 'things; she is reaching 'O'llt f-0r the lig"ht whi.ch Plato says is in her •hour af n~ed and in her bonr of crisis," and so Gbtnn · the thing to which tbe eye of the scml is turned by the proeesses mti'-Olded hel' flag side by side with the starry banner of 'the ' 1of education, and we ought to help her if that is possible. Republic. [Applause.] Then there is Rnother consideration that is more fundamental Sixt~stt thousand d('.)llars ii; nu of th~ priJ.ncipa:l debt wb'ich with me than any other comiideration with respect to nearly is 1remitted wder this billl. Is it to be given to China to be all matters. What 1 mea:n is that I am anxlons tlrat the Unltell trsed for military J)u11>oses? No. It i's to be given over to Sta.t.es should take snch a course, n.ot (mlf With refe1~nee China 'for rtM purpose of sending 'bright Ohinese yotrtbs tn the Enropean nations btrt with reference to the orien· whEJre? Not to Japan to imbibe militaristic ambitions, not to tal nations, so as to insure peace throughout the futme, as E11ro~ to in'lbme Old Wot'ld diplomacy and secr.ecy be-bind far a.s that may be done, by cementing ties of 'friendship, and closed doors in too formation of ba!la-nMs of power · b'llt this that is a consideration which lII'ges tne to sup})ott this reMlu- money is to be devoted b:V Ohilln to sending her' brightest bion. I think we will be taking a step in tbat important direc- youths to the colleges Rlld universities of tlie UnitM States to tion. [Applause.] I have said no precedent is tiola:ted. But imbibe the great pl'lnci'.ples of representative go,~-ernment that till is nt>t a similar proposal to tha.t measure which had the are taught in this land, to catch a vision respecting the Ameri support of my friend fr'Om N-ew Hampshire [Ur. Roo:ElBS]. Tt can conception of mt:emationai law and pea:ce and good Will is not stmil'ar to the relea-se of loans Which we mRde t() 'Other among the no.!f:i-0ns. It will be the best investment that this nations dUl'ing the progress af tbe World War. The resolution Government can make fot tnte'rnational good will at triftlng • stands by itself, it should 'be dealt witth mde1Jendently, and 1 cost ~ wt those Chinese students corn:e to American univer hope it is going to be dealt with by the passage of the resolu- sities and then go back to China and convey a mes$ao-e to the ti<>n. (Appla:ure.] 400,000,000 Ohinamen that the best hoJ>e o'.f their Republic is l\Ir. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Mr. Chmrtnan, how ttmch to !follow too forms of the Unit-ed States and to learn :.rnd em- time have I reinain'ing"? brace the principles of om in'Stitutions and ways of life. It is The -CHAIRMAN. 'l:he gentlem::m from New Ha:tti.pshire has worth $66;000, according to my opinion. [Applause.] tour 'minutes rmn.aining. Mr. ROGERS of New Hampshire. Mr. Chairman I yield Mr. PORTER. Mr. Cbairman, how much time llil.1ve I rem.am- four min11tes to the gentleman from Oklahoma [Ur. Mc- mg! 1 KEo~J. The OHAIR:MAN. The gentleman fi•om Pennsylvania has 1'3 The CBAIRl\UN {Mr. 'Ttr.so'N). The gentleman from Ok1a- minntes remaining. born.a is Tecogn-ized for fonr minutes. Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairmah, I yield follr minutes to the Mr. l\IcKEOWN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen ()f the com: geiitleman from Te::ta'S [Mr. Cre-qmu.r.Y]. mittee. I a'm sorry that I find myself unable to agtee with Mr. CONNALLY of '1:exas. Mr. Chfiirma.n and gentlemen of tl1e icommittee on this :meat:!Ul'e, because all my sympathies and the committee, I favor the passage of this resolution. In reply my tria.ining has run in that direction. to the srrggestions made by gentlemen that its passage will es- 'But, Mr. Chairman, I believe that President Roosevelt was tnblish -a precedent for th'e remiSSion of debts due by other one of the m-0st fair men that -ever sat in the Whi'te Rouse. rountries, I tak~ decided i$'sl1e. In the fu·st place, in the begin- Be was a just man. We may criticize him and differ With ning we had a petfe~t constitntionat tight not to demand any him on many questiobs; bnt my judgmetlt is that P'reffident sum from China if W'e had seen fit to do so. The' great bulk of Ro tfonal confe"'sion; but tll fact that we are dealing with a new fying before the committee urged, or to reclaim swamp lands, Government, the Ilep.ublic of China, that has repudiated the a another witness advocated. crimes of the Boxer rebellion, and that is to-day a Republic, l\Ir. l\IcKEOWN. Will tlie gentleman yield for a question? strug~ling to establi h it:; solidarity and power as the result l\fr. COLLINS. Yes. ·of the influence of American ideals-of American students and l\Ir. l\IcKEOWN. If the Chinese Government does not owe mi ::;ionaries illustrating the spirit of our Government in that us anything, why should we put any strings on it at all? hoary nation, side by ·ide ''ith thousands of Chinese students, Mr. COLLINS. I do not concede that the Chinese Govern carrying American ideal:; back to China-is a ringing call to ment does not owe us; I think there is due us a substantial us in this hour and the added kindness we now propose to amount and that it should be paid, for if it is remitted, other bestow. [Applause.] nations will take it as a precedent for tile cancellation of l\Ir. l\fcKEOWN. Will the gentleman yield? their ~lebts. Of course, the situations are entfrely dissimilar, Mr. UPSHAW. The gentleman will pardon. me until I but still I do not want to begin debt cancellation and am op finish this sentence. posing the first offer to do it. The amendment merely under What we propo e to do now is to complete our unfinished act takes to make the bill com1)ly with the ex:pres ed wishes of of kindness on the part of the Government of the United the proponents of the measure. States. [Applause.] Mr. BLANTON. l\lr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the l\fr. McKEOWN. I will ask the gentleman· if he thinks the amendment of the gentleman from Georgia. pa sage of this art will provide more safety to our mi sion In my fir t term of service here, Mr. Chairman, I represented aries in China than the fact that the Chinese Government 400 miles of the border between the Republic of l\Ie.xico and this kuow.. • we will demand indemnities? country. I know something about the problems of the people l\lr. UPSHA\V. I am glad tile gentleman has asked me living down on that border. Just within this week, in Mexico that question. The fact that the missionaries in China and City,. the capital of the Republic of l\fex:ico, if you please all outstanding citizens of America living there are a unit in l\Iex:ican citizens burned the flag of the United States and th~ asking for the passage of this bill is the surest argument that flag of Italy and other flags. they know the situation better than the people at this dis l\1r. LA.GUARDIA.. I am not interested in that. tance who are opposing it could possibly know. l\lr. BLANTON. Well, you are representing the flag of the Mr. GRE"JjJ~ of Iowa. Will the gentleman yield? United States, are ~rou not? l\Ir. UPSHAW. I yield. l\lr. LAGUARDIA. Very much so. Mr. GREEN of Iowa. The gentleman said l\10 ought to l\lr. BLANTON. And they burned the flags of four countrie.. 1 ham a national conscienre, and I agree with him. I think and declared everlasting death to the citizens of tho e couu when we say this is an act of kindness and friendship we are trie . taking perhaps too much credit to our:relves. I regard it Mr. l\1cKEOWN. Will the gentleman yield for a question? simply a an act of justice which our con. cience ought to l\1r. BLANTON. And they were not even arrested. recognize. l\!r. :\lcKEOWN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. UPSHAW. I had not reached that point. I agree l\fr. BLANTON. In just a moment. They were not even thoroughly with the gentleman from Iowa. arrested, if you please. l\Ir. BLA.!.~TON. What is the gentleman going to do about This incident in Mexico City, and also that of Americans the organized bandits that within the last year took charge being seized last year by Chinese bandits, is just a little baga of certain American citizens? Do you not think tllis will ham telle by the side of what happened in the Iloxer rebellion in a very salutary effect on them? 1900, yet after giving back tQ China $11,961,000 1n 1908 we ru.·e l\fr. UPSHAW. No: I think this will cause the Chinese Gov proposing now to give back $6,000,000 more, right in the face ernment to use a much sh'onger hand agn.irIBt these bandits of the fact that within the last year Chinese bandits in the and do their uest to wipe them out. [Applause.] mountains of China seized American citizens and subjected Mr. l\IcKEOWN. If tlJe gentleman will ~ield, why not them to eYery kind of hardship imaginable ; and we are saying give them more money, if it will do that? to these outlaws of other nations, "Go to it; do our citizens just Mr. UPSHAW. Gentlemen, I am ro 1woml of tue flag of as you please, murder and rob them in the name of the my counh·y, I am so tilrilled with the pieture of these students country where you live and it is all right, and we will give your coming here by hundreds every ~'ear through the investment country the.indemnity back after your country agrees to pay it." of this indemnity money, canring back American ideals to l\Ir. l\IcKEOWN. Will the gentleman yield? land so long steeped in super~tition-1 am so proud of a Mr. BLANTON. No; because I have only five minutes, and I all that flag stands for-that I want to see the light from the beauty of its stars and the glory of its stripes penetrating do not want to ask for more time. tile darkness of China. In this we are making an investment I am thinking about these poor people of America whom I in a reciprocal friendship between the olde~t. most populous have seen in n'umerous States of the Union, women and little nation of the world and the newest and most powerful nation. children, little girls following the plow on foot in the heat of Thank God for the blessings that will flow for centuries from the sun, trying to make a living on a farm, and they could not sueh uplifting friend -·hiv. [Applause.] do it. They ru·e taxed to death. We have nothing for tllem, but The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Georgia we are giving away to other countries all the time-$10,000,000 hru expired. to Germany, and now $6,000,000 to China. I am thinking of Mr. PORTER. l\Ir. Chairman, I move tllut the committee do these American women and little girls who plow in the hot sun now rise. all day in numerous States in the Union and are taxed to pay Mr. COLLINS. l\Ir. Chairman, I haye an amendment to for all this charity abroad. Charity begins at home. The gen offer, which is at the de ·k. · tleman from Georgia is blessed with a big heart; he is so liberal Mr. BLANTON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the rhat he gives all Ws time away. That is his greatest failing. pro forma amendment of the gentlemnn from Georgia. He is too liberal with the Public Treasury and the public money. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from l\lissis ·ippi has Mr. l\IcKEOWN. Will the gentleman yield now? offered an amendment, which the Clerk will report. Mr. BLANTON. Yes. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. 1\foKEOWN. What does the gentleman think will hap pen to us if we h·y to buy peace with all the other countries? Amendment offered by 1Ir. COLLINS : Amend by striking out the Mr. BLANTON. Oh, this is nothing but commercial peace. period in line 14, on page 2, and adding the following : " Provided You can talk about education and missionaries and all that that the amount remitted is usecl solely to develop the educational and stuff, but this is nothing but a commercial proposition that the other cultural :ictivltie" of China." busine s men want. Mr. COLLINS. Mr. Chairman, notwithstanding my opposi l\Ir. UPSHAW. Will the gentleman yield? tio11 to this bill, the purpose of the amenclment that I have l\Ir. BLANTON. Yes. offered is to carry out what every man that has poken in Mr. UPSH.A. W. I accept the soft impeachment of the gentle behalf of thil:l I.Jill urges as the proper use of tile money to be man from Texas, and I hope it is no crime in being interested remitted. The identical words used in my amendnient are in that which goes for the good men of America and the in the preamble, but the preamble amounts to nothing what strengthening of the ties between this country and the older ever, for it "·ill be stricken out, and if this amount to be nations. - remitted, of $6,137,000. is to be used for educational and cul l\Ir. BLANTON. If, like you voted $10,000,000 to Germany, tural activities in 8hilla, the House should know it, and it we are to give $10,000,000 to all of the 51 countries that have should be so Rtated somewhere in the bill. It should not be mini ters in Washington, just to buy peace, it would be well ex11enued to douhle-tru<:k u prinlte railroad line, as one testi- spent if peace could be secured.. If we want to buy peace on 1924 8065 I the tax money of the people by giving tnem '$10,000,000 to Swoope Tydings Watson Wilson, 1nd. Taber Underhill Wefald Wilson, MiBS. every one of rthe 51 countries-- Temple Upshaw Weller -Winslow Mr. UPSHAW. The gentleman knows that theru is mo Tbompi::ron 'VRile Wertz Wootlrutf analogy between this case and the other "50 countrJes he Tilson Vincent/ Mich. White,Xans. Wyunt Timberlake Voigt Williams, Jll. .Yates speaks of. Tinkham Wainwright 'Williams, Mich. YoUllg fr. fil.'.ANTON. Oh, some are _poorer than 10hina. ·Ti:eadway Watres Williamson Mr. UPSHAW. That is not the test. N.AYS--:-1:Jii l\Ir. BLA.i~TUN. Some of them need it more than 10hina, but Abernethy IF.ree McClin'tic .Robey the .big .hea1't of the gentleman .from Georgia is 'for the nationals Allen J•'ulbright .McDuffie .Salmon Allgood 'Fulmer AicKeown Sanders, "Tex. of other countries. I am th:nking about the women and little Almon Garrett, Tenn. McReynolds Sandlin girls who ..Plow in the hot sun in Georgia. I am thinking of Aswell Gasque !llcSwain .Sherwood those that plow in Pennsylvania. I am thinking about the Bankhead Hammer !IcSweeney Smithwick one -that plow in Texas and 'Minnesota. Barkley .Hastings Major. :m . .Steagall Beedy Hill, Ala. 1Major, Mo. ·Stevenson Mr. UPSHAW. Mr. Chairman, is there any pru'liamentary Black, ~ex. Hill, Md. M:utin ·£umners, 'Tex. ffitnation by which the gentleman from Georgia may re.PlY to Eland .Hooker Milligan Swank Blanton "Hudspeth Minahan Tague tile gentleman from Texas"? Bowling Humphreys Jdoore, Ga. Taylor, Colo. The CHA.IRMA:N. Debate 'has been exhausted on this amend Box Jeffers Morehead Taylor, 'W.'Va. ment. The question is on agreeing to the amendment of the Brand, Ga. Johnson, Tex. Morrow Thatcher Briggs Johnson, W. Va. Oldfield Tnoma.s, Ky. gentleman from Mississippi. Buchanan Junes Oliver, Ala. Thomas, Okla. 'The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. Busby 0-ost Oliver,.N. -Y • ,..rm man l\Ir. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I mo-ve that the committee do Byrns, Tenn. .Kincheloe .Parks, .Al:k. Underwood with Cannon King "Pou Vinson, Ga. now TiRe an a report the resolution to the House the recom Carter Knutson Quin Vinson, K:y. mendation that it be agreed to. Collier .Kunz [Ragon :Watkins The motion was .agreed to. Collins Lanhrun Rankin Weaver .hn.v..ing Crisp Lalikford Reece Williams, Tex. AccordingJy the committee rose; and the Speaker re Deal LaFsen, Ga. ·Re&i, Ark. Win~o sumed the chair, Mr. TrLsoN, Ohair.man of the Committee of Denison Lazaro ..Roach 'Wolrr the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that that Dickinson, .Mo. Lee, Ga. Rabsion, Ky. Woodrum Driver Lindsay "Rogers, N. H. Wright 8066 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE llAY 7 The result of the vote was announced as above recorded. During the period up to 1890 a number of surveys were made The doors were reopened. of the entire Illinois River project, showing a through line of On motion of Ur. Po&TEB, a motion to reconsider the vote by wateP connection from the Mississippi to Lake Michigan via the which the joint resolution was passed was laid on the table. Illinois River, and these projects have at different times been WA'l'EBW A Y FROM LAKE MICfilGAN TO THE GULF OF MEXICO before the Congress of the United States. I quote from the Mr. WILLIAM E. HULL. l\lr. Speaker, I ask unanimous rivers and harbors act approved Augu t 5, 1886, to examine and consent to extend my remarks in the RECORD by inserting report upon the Illinois and Michigan Canal and the proposed therein an address I made before the Committee on Rivers and Hennepin Canal, which says in its report that the- Harbors upon a waterway· from Lake Michigan to the Gulf of waterway from Chicago to Grafton, on the Mississippi River, is n. most Mexico. • important one, and when completed there is little doubt that it will Tlle SPEAKER. Is there objection? richly pay for Itself in the reduction and regulation of freights. There was no objection. In addition to thnt it will be of great value for commercial, Mr. WILLit\...M E. HULL. Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of military, and naval purposes. the House, on April 18 I made a statement to your honorable In 1889 the State of Illinois considered that it was acting committee that in deference to what seemed to me to be good not only within its rights but also pursuant to the wishes of policy in reference to the passing of a general rivers and the United States as expressed by congre sional acts and by harbors bill I would withdraw my bill, H. R. 5475, from the engineers' reports in :firoviding for the construction of the ani general bill. tary and shipping canal, as i apparent from the joint resolu These hearings were set in advance and have been pursued tion of the Legislature of Illinois adopted May 29, 1889 an on the presumption that my bill might be included in the act entitled: ' · general bill reported by the committee for the improvement of rivers and harbors. Owing to the fact that I ha·rn about An act to create sanitary districts and to remove obstruction in the determined in my own mind that a new bill should be writ Des Plaines and Illinois Rivers. ten on this subject I ham pursued the policy of fighting for And on Jul;r 1, 1889, it became a law, and the War Depart a principle and not for tlle passage of the bill. ment was advised thereof on July 10, 1889. Involved in this principle is a matter of equity for this It was evidently contemplated by the legislature of that great Government of ours. The policy of our Nation has al time which garn the sanitary district the priYilege of turn ways been to treat each section of the Union on an equal basis. ing the sewage into the Illinois River that they would also Therefore, after the testimony that has been put forth in make the minimum capacity 10,000 cubic feet per second. The this case, it seems evident that this was the intention of those reason that I have quoted these different dates is to establish empowered to establish a treaty between the United States in your minds, if possible, the fact that this waterway, known Government and the Canadian . Government. At that time us the Illinois waterway, that is now being constructed by this commission was empowered to take into consideration the State of Illinois was actually stai:ted as far back as 1822. first, Canada; then Niagara Falls; and then the great West, Then we lead on up to the time when the route was chosen which naturally fell to Chicago, because it happened to be and we find that was in 1892, and the actual construction of the point where diversion existed at the time the treaty was the canal was started in 1893, and again in 1895 the Secre promulgated. tary of War ordered a report made as to the effect the diver From the evidence that has been introduced at this hearing, sion would have on the lake levels, considering a contem I tllink it has been clearly demonstrated that the Canadian plated diversion of 10,000 cubic feet per second. On Janu Government has been the greatest beneficiary of all, and next ary 17, 1900, the main channel was completed and placed in to that the State of New York in its Niagara power plants; operation. It was 160 feet wide in the regular section and and the only thing left, as I see it, for the whole great western 24 feet deep with a flowage capacity of 10,000 cubic feet per counh·y, which includes such States as Ohio, Indiana, Michi second. So you can see that there is a long history to this gan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and the Far West, would be what was deep waterway that we have before us to-day, and the reason left in the consideration of the diversion problem, and that I have given these dates is for the purpose, if I can, of would be the 10,000 cubic feet per second, allotted to Chicago. convincing you that this project was one that was establishetl HOW THE LAKES '1'0 THE GULF WATERWAY ORIGINATED years and year ago. That it has always had the right to divert 10,000 cubic feet per second, and you will find further At this juncture I want to remind you that this deep water along in the treaty between the United States and Canada way from Lake Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico is not a new the -very fact that this great western country was permitted thought, but one that goes back for a century, and I call your to divert this water, as has been plainly shown to you. It attention to the fact that in 1822 Congress passed the first was the intent of the International Waterways Commission canal act. In that year the British Government gave definite to charge this 10,000 cubic feet per second diverted at Chicago expression of its attitude, denying American citizens the right against the United States Government, because they allowed to navigate the St. Lawrence River; so the Congress of the the di version of 20,000 cubic feet per second from the Niagara United States passed an act authorizing the State of Illinois River above the Falls for power purposes and at the same to open this canal in order to connect the Lakes with the sea time allowed 36,000 cubic feet per second to the Canadian coast. Government, and the paragraph closes and states that "the Then again, in 1827, when the British Government refused prohibition of this article shall not apply to the diversion of to discuss the question of the right of American citizens to water for sanitary or domestic purposes,,, Consequently, it is navigate the St. Lawrence, the United States Government that is, Congress-again passed an act authorizing the State plain to me, and I believe that it was the intent at that time, to allow this 10,000 cubic feet per second because it was usecl of Illinois to open this same canal and provided therein that for sanitary and domestic purposes, and then, again, article there should be a grant to the State of Illinois for the pur 8 de:finies the order of precedence to be observed among the pose of aiding the State in opening a canal to unite the waters of the Illinois River with those of Lake Michigan. various uses enumerated for boundary waters, which are de From 1829 to 1836 the State of Illinois passed legislation termined as follows: authorizing the construction of the canal as requested by the (1) Uses for domestic and sanitnry purposes: United States. This canal was completed in 1848 by the State (2) Uses for navigation, including the service of canals for the pur of Illinois, but on account of the lack of funds it was only 6 poses of navigation: and feet deep and 40 feet wide and was fed partially by the gravity (3) Use for power and for irrigation purposes; flow from the Calumet River through the Calumet feeder But in my judgment of all the clauses in too treaty that which connected with it at the village of Sag, Ill., and by would make it apparent and prove the fact that that was the water pumped from Chicago River up into the canal at Ash main thought in the_treaty is the following: land A venue, where its locks were located. It became a great aid to commerce in the Mississippi Valley. The foregoing provisions shall not apply to or disturb any existing The enlargement of this canal by an act of legislation in 1861 uses o! boundary waters on either side o! the boundary. was authorized by joint resolution directing the commissioners It seems very simple to me, gentlemen, that that one clause of the Illinois and Michigan Canal to cause a thorough survey. should say that the 10,000 cubic second-feet was being diverted Another report was made in 1866 by General Wilson, and in at the time, and also that the Government took into considera this report it was clearly demonstrated that the Illinois River tion the fact that the Niagara project was only to have 20,000 was by nature the line by which the waters of Lake l\lichigan cubic second-feet against Canada's 36,000 cubic second-feet, and should be connected with those of the Mississippi, and a mo that they surely intended to count this 10,000 cubic seconrl-feet ment's consideration will show that at no remote period the as. belonging to the United States Government. waters of the lake must have been carried off by these streams It may seem strange to you that after withdrawing my blll as well as by the St. Lawrence. (H. R. 5475) I should continue on these l~arings to prove the 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8067 fact that Chicago and the great western country were entitled and fundamental principles laid down by our Government that to this diversion, or to disprove the fact that we in the West all parts of our country should be treated as nearly alike as were infringing upon tbe East, but to me it appears important possible and I maintain that this 10,000 cubic second-feet be that I should do so, as it is not the bill I am fighting for but a longs to the great Central West and that it will throughout all principle. And I beliern that Wisconsin and Michigan who are the time to come be the mainstay of a deep waterway from the taking such an active part in this fight, and are actually Lakes to the Gulf. I believe that when this waterway is once pulling the chestnuts out of the fire for the Canadian Govern established the commerce attracted to its borders will be so ;cent and the ~iagam power plants, will some day wake up large that eventually it will be necessary to make the canal and will realize that they have given away the greatest asset 18 or 20 feet deep, and such a project would be impos ible with that this western country will ever have, and that is the 10,000 out this diversion that has been given to us by the treaty. If cubic second-feet diversion they a.re entitled to, not only by the we at this time allow Canada and the Niagara power interests agreement of the international waterways commission but to take this water away from the l\Iississippi Valley, I predict as implied in the treaty. it will never be possible to get it back again, no 1114tter bow vital C~ICAGO'S SEWAGE PROBLEM it may prove to be to the maintenance of an adequate waterway We have a great many things confronting us in this legis from Lake Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico. lation, and while my main object is a deep waterway leading from Lake Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico, and that must be FAILURE OF EA.STERN INTERESTS TO PROVE THEIR CASE the paramount issue, because that means- so much, not only to You have heard the evidence upon both sides, and it is unnec the people living along the river but to all the people who live essary for me to elaborate upon the proposition that the farmers west and east of us, because it will provide transportation tllat from the West and the manufacturers of the West, especially in will reduce the freight rates and give the farmer and the the Central West, which includes all of the States, are in need manufacturing interests of the Middle West an equal chance of this great waterway, and also that unless they are actually with the more favored sections of the East. given this relief you may see in the near future a great destruc- But we ha-rn in the river to-day, and I want to make that em- tion of enterprise in this section of the country. Therefore I phatic, the sewage of Chicago, put there by the law of the State do not intend to take up your time by referring to the proofs Illinois, and· in my judgment a withdrawal of any portion of the made on this particular subject, and all that I will do in conclu water that they are putting through now, under the present sion is to try and point out how futile the objectfons to this conditions would be ruinous to the health and lives not only to great project have been. the citizens of Chicago but to the citizens along the river, and We will take every witness-those who represented the lake while it is true that a portion of my constituents disagree to carriers, those who represented the power interests, and those some extent with me in this re pect, I have made a study of it, who represented States who think they are to be injured. Take and I am convinced in my own mind that it would be actually all of their evidence together, and what do you find? The lake ruinous. carriers and all of them combined have not yet demonstrated to There are only three ways that Chicago can dispose of this I this committee that the lake levels have been lowered to such sewage; one is through the Illinois River, as they are disposing an extent as to injure transportation. Why? Because it has of it now; the other is to pump it back into Lake Michigan been proven, and stated time and time again by those who where they obtain their drinking water; and the other w·ould be know, that the tonnage is away beyond their expectations and through sewage disposal plants. The latter is the only one that is larger this year than in any previous year, and at no time must be eventually used; and it is the duty of the sanitary dis- have they either demonstrated or proven that they have been trict and the citizens of Chicago to begin and begin in earnest inconvenienced in the least, but on the other hand we have to build these plants as rapidly as they possibly can, not only these men coming before this committee, and they generally for their own salvation but for the salvation of all the people wind up with the statement that seven times as much power can in the valley. If they will not do this voluntarily, then it is be generated at Niagara power plants as can be developed in the either the duty of the United States Government or the duty of canal at Chicago. It has been made clear to this committee, I the State of Illinois to force them to do so by legal action. I am sure, that that is what is uppermost in the minds of those believe that in passing a law, making this deep waterway, re- who are objecting to the western country having this diversi(n. gardless of everything else, tlJat should be the principal para- Power, and power only, seems .to be the main object of all the graph ill the bill, to force Chicago into building of these plants. testimony, and we find the Canadian Government has the same But, in my judgment, and I think I have a fair idea of the situ- purpose in mind and have already taken the lion's share of this ation, it will take Chicago at her best, financially and physically, water in taking the 36,000 cubic foot-seconds. · 20 years at least to complete these plants to take care of the The makers of the treaty gave the State of New York, through 3,000,000 people. the ~iagara Power Co., 20,000 cubic second-feet, and now, why All of the eYidence, even that introduced by those who are op- should these interests desire to take away from the western posed to the sanitary district board, has shown beyond a doubt country that which rightfully belongs to them, and which they that should the sanitary district establish sewage disposal had in control before the treaty was ever signed? All I have to plants large enough to dispose of all of the human sewage and say to you, gentiemen, is this: Don't overlook the great proposi trade waste at the plants, it would then take from 8,000 to 10,000 tion, and that is that this Government must continue to function cubic feet of water to dilute the residue of the sewage to the in every section of it, and when you destroy one section for extent lhat the fish life would again flourish in the river and the the benefit of the other, then you destroy the prosperity of the resorts that once furnished so much pleasure and recreation to land. The great Central West has been the feeder and the pro the people of the whole State could be reestablished. gressive part of this country, and now that it has this hope of a This evidence was put into the record by men thoroughly deep waterway connecting Lake Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico, conver ant with the facts and W. L. Sackett, chief of the divi- which will, without dispute, create a medium of transportation sion of waterways for the State of Illinois, stated in his testi- that will take the products of this great agricultural and manu mony that General Black, who was Chief of the United States facturing section of our country through the Panama Canal and Board of Engineers at the time the permits were granted for to all parts of the globe, do not take away the advantage it so the construction of the Illinois waterway, said, that in his richly deserves. opinion, at least 7,000 cubic second-feet would always be re quired and he was under the impression that he would eventu ADVANTAGES OF 'fHE WATERWAY IN AN EUERGENCY ally recommend a 10,000 cubic second-feet. So it would seem I want to say further that should this great waterway be a that the diY-ersion of 10,000 cubic second-feet will always be thing of realization, then you will find in time of war what neces ary to preserve the li\es and health of the people in the great advantage it will be to the United States GovetJ].ment. valley. Now, gentlemen, I have lived along the Illinois River all my 'rRE NECESSITY OF DIVERSIO~ FOR A WATERWAY life. I have spent the last 35 years in Peoria. We have a vast The 10,000 cubic second-feet is allotted, in my judgment, to the expanse of water in front of our beautiful city, 1 mile in great western country. It was the one thing that was taken width, a slow-fl.owing river that we call Peoria Lake, and to-day into consideration in the treaty, and while it does not say so in this energetic city is concerned with two problems; one, of the so many words, it implies it in a number of places, and I am pollution of the ri"\ter, and the other, a need for navigation; and satisfied that even the Canadian Government at that time recog I want to say to you, so that it may be carried back to the people nized the fact that we would be obliged to have that amount of who live along the river, that the object in view in this legisla water in order to carry out this system of sewage disposal that tion is, first, to gi\e through transportation from Lake Michigan was in operation :it that time. to the Gulf of Mexico; second, to clean the Illinois River of its But, on the other band, eliminate the Sanitary District and pollution; and third, to protect the farmer and his la·nds and re the city of Chicago from the proposition, come buck to the trut" imburse him for the damages he has suffered i.L thi~ connection. LXV-509 l. 8068 CONGRESSIONAL rECORD-HOUSE l\IAY 7 The great State of Illinoiq patriotic in times of war, patriotic WATEBS OF RIO GRA ... ~DE BEI,OW FORT QGTT1IAN, TEX. in times of peace, offers to the Government of the United States . 1.~r. PORTER. Mr. Speaker, I call up the bill S. 2998, pro more than her share toward this gr·eat waterway. The farmers ndmg for a study regarding tile equitaule use of the waters and the citizens of this Commonwealth by their vote gav-e of the Rio Grande below Fort Quitm•rn, Tex., in cooperation $.::?0,000,000 to build the connecting link between Lake l\1ichigan with the United States of Mexico. and the Illino.is Rh~er so that the people of the great 1\fissis The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pennsylvania calls up sippi \alley might be favored by transportation that would the bill S. 2998, of which the Clerk will report the title. give them relief and connect them with the ports of the world. The Clerk reported the title of the bill. Will it be the policy of this committee and the Congress ot the The SPEAKER. Thi: bill is on the Union Calendar. United States to ignore this generous gift of a State so willing 1\Ir. GARNER of Texas. .1r. Speaker, thl ~ is a unanimous to help herself and her sister St.ates. report trom the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and I do ~ot We wbo live in Illinois are proud of the name- believe that it will take more than fiYe minutes to pass it. I • By thy rivers gently flowing, ask unanimous consent that the bill be conside1·ed in the House Ilfinois, Illinois, as in Committee of the Wl10le. O'er thy prairies verdant growing, The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas asks mutni Illinois, lllinoi on Irrigation and Reclamation in order that it might be and the invitation was again renewed, and for the fourth tim~. brought up to-day on this calendar? in the act of April 15, 1918, the invitation was renewed, but Mr. GARNER of Texas. I will answer, if the gentleman still the World War and the confusion that followed it inter from Pennsylrania will permit . The original bill was intro fered with the meeting. The later meetings of the Inter duced some time ago by me in the House. It was referred to parliamentary Union have been held on the other side of the the Committee on Foreign Affair. , and then a bill of iden Atlantic, American delegates in attendance as usual. Kow, tically the ame language pas. ed the Senate- it is proposed to renew the invitation which has been so many l\lr. CRAMTOX A imilar House bill bas been before the time extended to this organization and to request the Presi Foreign Affairs Committee. dent of the United States to in1ite the Interparliamentary Mr. GARN~JR of Texa::::. Ye. Union to hold its meeting in the city of Washington in the Mr. CRAMTON. Ha,-e there been hearings before the Com year 1925. The former act made an appropriation of $40,000 mittee on Foreign Affair ? to cover the expenses of the meeting. This act increas~s that l\Ir. GARNER of Texas. "Very extended hearings by the appropriation to 50,000- • committee. Mr. SNYDER. Will the gentleman yield? The SPEAKER. The que. tion is on the third reading of Mr. TEMPLE. I shall be \ery glad to do so in just a the bill. moment. The increase being necessary, of course, because The bill wa ordered to be read a third time, was read the of the general increase in prices since 1915. I yield to the third time, and pa . ed. gentleman fTom New York. The SPEAKER. Without objection, a similar House bill l\Ir. Sl\TYDER. Se\eral times I have heard tbe question will lie on the table. asked, what adnntage do we get by this Interparliamentary There was no objection. Union gathering or conference? Will the gentleman give some On motion of ::\lr. GAit:\'ER of Texas. a motion to reconsider idea of what class of work they do, what effect they have upon the vote by which the bill was passed. was laid on the table. the interests of this counh·y in any way. I am asking purely for information. MEETING OF INTERPARLL\.~E~TA.RY_ UNION' IN WASHINGTON CITY, l\Ir. TEMPLE. The Interparliamentary Union is an inter- 1020 • national organization which has been in existence for about 30 Mr. TE:\IPLE. l\Ir. Speaker, I call up House Jornt Resolu- years. It is an association made up of members of the parlia- tion 20-!, on the Union Calendar. . ments and congresses of the various nations of the world. Its Tl~e SPEA~R. Tl~e gentleman_ fr?m Pe~sylva~ia calls up I meJ?ber h~ve n~ diplomatic ~owers, of course, bn.t questions a jomt resolut10n, which the Clerk will repoi t by title. of mternat10nal mtere t are diseus ed at the meetings of the The Clerk read as follows: Interparliamentary Union, particularly those questions that ITouae joint resolution (IJ. J. Res. 204) reque!'!ting the President to may he dealt with in a legislative way rather than by the invite the Interparliamentary Union to meet in Washington City in ordinary methods of diplomacy. The direct results are not 1025 and authorizing an appropriation to defray the expenses of the ahyays obyious, hut there have been some very heneficial meeting. results. I think I shall ask the gentleman from Ohio [l\lr. . tl d . . t b t't . t BtTRTO~] to discuss that more fully when I shall have finished, Tlie SPEAKER. ~ : D . oes the gen eman ~::;ire ? s.,u s 1 u e if be is willing to do so. the Senate ie olution m place ?f the House iesolution ·. I have attended only one of these meetings, the one held . ~Ir: TE::\IPLE .. ! as~ u~anu~ous con ent to s~bstitu!e an two years ago this summer in the city of Vienna. There were Hlen~1cal Se~ate :e..,olu~~on m place of t~e ~ou~e resolution.. about 30 nations of the world represented at that meeting, l\lr. BLA~TON. TWs has to ~e con. ide1ed .m the .commit- including all the so-called great powers and many of the new tee of the "hole House on the state of the Union, as it makes powers that resulted from the treaties followinO' the World a charge on the Trea ury. War "' The SPEAKER. Certainly. The gentleman from Pennsyl- · T • • • vania asks unanimous consent that the Senate resolution may be I l\Ir. ~I..A~TON. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? ·a d. Ii f tl H . l t• l' tl b' t' ? l\Ir. 'IE~HLE. I do. c<>nsi ere m eu o 1e .ouse 1~so u ion. ~ 1ere o.Jec.10n. l\Ir. BLA...'\TO.N. When the gentleman says there were 30 [After. a pause.] The Chair beais none. ~Ins resolution :s on nations represented he merely means by th.:'tt that nations !he l mon Calen?ar and the House automatically resoh·es it. elf were officially represente Mr. BLRTO. T. In 1904. l\Ir. BLA:'TTOX With what purpose in view? Just enter· l\Ir. TE~!PLE. Twenty years ago. tainment, or have we some definite, fixed purpose? :Mr. BLAJTTON". Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield for Mr. TEMPLE. There is no scheme behind it another questiQn l\lr. BLANTOX What do we expect to come out of this l\Ir. TEl\IPLE. Yes. meeting and all subsequent meetings? What are we hopeftll l\1r. BLANTON. In the sense that our secretn:ries call them for? selves "The Little Congress," just so this could be called "A. l\Ir. TR:\f PLE. Better acquaintance, better understanding, Little League of • '"ations," could it oot? fuller srmpathy, and the progress of good will and of peace 1\Ir. TE:\.IPLE. No. It has nothing to do with the League among nations. of Nations. It is a great deal older than the existing League Mr. BLANTON. .Mny I ask th~ distinguished gentleman of Nations; and when the League of Nations was organized, it this question, because he is well posted on this subject: Will in no way took the place of an organization composed of mem there ever be any concerted system of peace by the nations of bers of the parliaments and eongresses of the various powers. the world without some kind of an agreement among tbose It d<>es not undertake to do anything at all in an ex:ee11tirn nations? Will there be, and if it takes an agreement, whenever way, which the League of Nations does undertake. It does that agreement i entered into-I do not care what else you not even undertak-e to arbitrat-e {lifferences among the powers, call it-is it not after all a league of nations? imt to discuss matter~ of general interest that may come up Mr. TE~1PLE. I am not quarreling with any nu.mes. I am in the parliaments and to cr~ate an under tanding of questions thoroughly in favor of everything that will bring the nations of world-wide interest that will be helpful in acting on rnrious together in a better understanding without tying our hands affairs. , with regard to policies OYer which we might have no control ~fr. BLANTOX. Will the gentleman yield for one other The League of Nations has nothing to do with this question question? and this question has nothing to do with the League of Nations. l\1r. TEMPLE. I yield. Mr. LAGUARDL.\. Will the gentleman yield? l\1r. BLANTON. AR I understand the distinguished gentle l\1r. TE:\1PLE. Yes. man from Pennsylvania, he is in favor of the ~1emhers of the ~:It-. LAGUARDIA. Taking up the suggestion made by the House of Repre entattres .and the Senate, as individual Ameri gentleman from Texas [l\Ir. BLANTON], if these interparlia cans, going oyer to the Interparliamentary Union, wllicll is a mentary unions meet from time to time, and the Interparlia union or league of like members of other parliamentary hodies, mentary Union finally develops into a permanent official union, and take steps looking to\vard peace, but he objects to the where electiYe officials of the various countries meet at stated United States officially doing that very thing. Is that a fact? intervals. would not that be a blessing to the civilization of the 1\Ir. TE~IPLE. I do not know why the gentleman under worlll, el'en if it de'°elops into something official? takes to speak for me. {Laughter.] 1\Ir. 'I'E~lPLE. I do not attempt to look further into the l\Ir. BLANTON. I was judging the gentleman by re son of future than the eye of man is able to penetrate. I think I the action of his party. If I am wrong about the gentleman's have seen good result, already from the Interparliamentary individual stand, I want to know it. I just judge him by the Union ; I expect to ee more good results but exactly what act of his party. form they may take I clo not know. However, the cultivation MrA TEMPLE. There is n-0 reason for bringing the dticus of acquaintance and of good 1'ill certainly gives a background 'Sion of the League of Nations into the discnssion of thi:: re~ for peace and makes quarrels. which generally arise from mis lution. I am perfectly willing to say, quite voluntarilr, in understandings, more unlikely. dependent of the question of the gentleman, that I am in favor :\Ir. Chairman, I re errn the remainder of my time. [Ap of a great deal fuller association and cl ocer acquaintance than plause.] is iuvol'"ed in this Interparliamentary Union, but I am not will ing to go into the League of Nations as at pr<*!ent -Ol'ganized. :\Ir. WIXGO rose. The CHA.IRMA~~. For what purpo e does the gentleman [Applause.] Mr. CONNALLY of Texas. Mr. Chairman, will the gentle- from Arkansas rise'? · Mr. WI~GO. I ask for recognition. man yield? The CHAIRl\1A..""\. Does any member of the committee claim Mr. TEl\IPLE. Yes. l\1r. CO.NNALLY of Texas. I understand the gentleman from time in opposition to the resolution? Ur. BLANTOX. Mr. Chairman, of conr e, if the gentleman Pennsylvania is in favor of the World Court! l\lr. TEl\IPLE. I am. I have been, long before that court from Arkansas is against the resolution, he is entitled to time, but, illlless he is against it, I am against this resolution and existed and long before the League of Nations existed. When the delegates were sent by the United States to The Hague I want some time to speak against it. Unless the gentleman conference in 1907 and were instructed by President Roosevelt from Arkansas is against it, I claim the right to be recognized. and by Mr. Root, who was at that time Secretary of State, to The CHAIRl\IAl,, Both of the gentlemen know the rules of bend every effort toward the organization of a court of mter the Hou e. national justice. I was and had been in favor of a court of l\Ir. BLA...,TON. I am against the resolution. justice as a step in advance of courts of arbitration. Mr. WINGO. I was under the impre sion that I had been I happened to be in the White House as a member of the recognized. Am I in error? .American Society of International Law when a conyersation l\Ir. BL..•\.XTON. I was on the floor . took place between some of the important men in the exeeutive The CHA.IRMA,.... The Chair asked the gentleman for what branch of the Go•ernment and the American delegates to the purpose he rose. second Hague conferenee. I wns then pleased to know that ~Ir. WINGO. And I said for recognition. the {;nited States Government had taken a stand which would l\1r. BLAl\'"TON. I am against the resolution and I was on have led, if it bad been followed up, to the organization of a my feet. If the gentleman is against the resolution, I yield the oourt of justice. It would have been far better at the end of floor to him immediately, of course; but if he is not ngainst the the World War to {lo this, rather than to attempt by an execu resolution I claim tbe right to be recognized against it under the ti>e and legislative league to take charge of the affairs of the rules of the House. worhl. I am in fav.or of a court of law, a court of international Mr. CO~A.LLY of Texas. l\Ir. Chairman, as I understand, justice. members of the committee are entitled to recognition fiTSt, but Mr. McSWAIN. 1\1r. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? they have to qualify that they are agfilnst the resolution. Mr. TEl\lPLE. 1 es. The CHAIBllA..K The Chair would i·eeognize some member Ur. McSWAll: '. Boiled down to .a residuum, in the language of the committee against the resolution first. of common senJe it is thIB : That for 20 years we hnve been Mr. CO~~.ALLY of Tex:a~. I ca.n not afford to say I am accepting the hospitality of the other nati{)ns of the w-0rld, and against the resolution in order to get an hour's time, and I will the question now L whetller we shall return the favor and ask not do it. them to eome to our house7 [Applause.] l\1r. O'CON1'TELL of N'ew York. Neither can r. 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE 807i The CHAIBMAN. If the gentleman from Arkansas is against Mr. GREEN of Iowa. Does not the gentleman think this the resolution, he may proceed.. discussion is somewhat in the nature of a post-mortem opera Mr. WINGO. I am not going to make a speech against the tion? Why talk about something that is dead'? resolution. I will say th.at frankly to the Chairman. Mr. BLANTON. No, it is not dead, but only sleeping. You Tl.le CH...\.IRllA.N. We can not afford to take liberties with gentlemen now are not willing to accept the League of Nations. the rule, and it provides that one hour shall be used by those You are not willing to amend one that is proposed by a Demo opposed to the resolution and one hour by those in favor of it. crat, and put it in the order and the shape you want it and The Chair has no power in the matter to recognize anyone when accept it and have an effective organization that will bring there is some one actively claiming to be opposed to the reso about peace; but you are continually trying to slip into the lution. League of Nations by the back door. You are now trying here :.\Ir. WINGO. I am not pleading ignorance of the rule, in this bill to carry on an ineffectual organization of individuals neither am I urging my opposition to the resolution in order when it will bring about nothing but proposals for an organiza to get time. I am trying to get time, but I am not unaware of tion of nations, and you know it. the rule. Wby, my friend here [l\Ir. BURTON] is just as much for a The CHAIR.llA...... ~. If no l\Iember claims to be opposed to the league of nations now as I am. He will not admit it, but he resolution as a member of the committee, and if the gentleman is for it, and some of these days when he can whip it around from Arkansas does not claim to be opposed to the resolution, and call it a Republican document he will vote for it. the Chair will recognize the gentleman from Texas [Mr. Mr. BOYLAN. Will the gentleman yield for a question? BLANTON]. l\Ir. BLANTON. Yes. Mr. BLA.XTOX Mr. Chairman, I yield 45 minutes to the Mr. BOYLAN. Does not the gentleman think he is making gentleman from Arkansas. a very far-fetching statement when he is speaking to the key The CHA.IRMA....~. The gentleman from Arkansas is recog noter of the Republican Convention, and if the gentleman nize<] for 45 minutes. is going to have him say he is for the League of Nations, the Mr. BLA..."l\l'TOX If he wants it now or later. gentleman is liable to embarrass him. ~Ir. WINGO. I appreciate the gentleman's g(:'nerosity, and I l\Ir. BLA...~TON. If the gentleman from Ohio [~Ir. BURTO~] will use it. is against the principle of a concerted agreement between Mr. BLA:NTOX llr. Chairman, I am against this resolution nations to effect peace, I yield to him now to deny he is in for a. number of reasons. One is because of the ideas and favor of such an organization. Whenever he is in favor of actions of the dominant party of this Government no further an organization of nations to effect peace, he is in favor of a good can ever come from this Interparliamentary Union. That league of nations, and I want the Republicans of the United is tbe first reason. The seooncl is that we would be just wasting States to know that the Republican keynoter of their con $50,000 with tbat situation before us. vention is an outstan • l\Ir. WEFAJ,D. Will the gentleman yield? it in words-I do not want her to have in her heart nnd mind l\Ir. BLANTON. I will. the thought that I with other men respon ible for the affairs of Mr. WEFALD. Can the gentleman tell us whether the the Government-back in times when we were trying to see Interparliamentary Union came over here before the World how we could bring about international arcord, that I nnd War? others for political considerations got into • low political Mr. BLANTOX. They came here last in 1904. I think they quarrel and robbed this boy nnd other boy· of the only insur met at The Hague in 1913, just before the war. ance against the nece ~ity for making this l'acrifice. I do not 1Ur. WEFALD. What did they do? propose to have the blood of a single boy on my oul by stand· Mr. BLANTON". I think they got far enough to make a rec ing in the way of Rtate. men discussing internationnl problems ommendation that there should be just such a league as they and trying to bring about concord and a better feeling arnon~ finally went into, and which most countries except our own the nations of the world. [Applause.] became a party to. I will ask the gentleman from Ohio if they Wasted money.? It may be wasted, but, Mr. Chairman, I cnn did not get that far before the war? not think that it i~ wasted money for responsible parliamentary l\lr. BURTOK They did not meet during the war. leaders of the different civilized nations of tlte earth to come to Mr. BLANTON. In 1911? this, the leading nation of the earth, all(l sit for a time in Mr. BURTON". I think in 1913 was the last meeting. friendly relations and discu. s problems that are common to nll Mr. BLANTON. And in 1913 they recommended such an of the nations of the earth. Let them get our viewpoint an1l agreement as we had in that first League of Nations. come touch to touch and elbow to elbow. Let them unllerstarnl Mr. BURTON". Not a league of nations. the inspiration antl the ideals of America. I belie·rn it will be Mr. BLANTOK Oh, I wish we could forget that term-they worth the paltry $50,000 to have these other tatesrnen come recommended that there should be a concert of action between from these countries that are almost despairing to this great !-!OYernments for peace, and it bad been recommended by previ- Republic and catch some of the inspiration and the high ideal:· 1s Interparliamentary Unions. of the American people so that they may go back nud tell their l\!r. BURTON". They did not get that far. people that wbateYer may be said of us we are not merelr a _jfr. BLANTO:N. Then they ha·rn not been worth a conti- money-grubbing lot, that at heart we love justire and peace, and 11L'ntal. l\Ir. Chairman, as I said, I propose to vote against this that the American statesmen of every party can be trusteu to ! .casure. I want to save the $50,000. deal justly in handling international affair. . It will be worth Mr. WEFALD. Does the gentleman think that the inter the $50,000 to have that conviction driwn home to the princival parliamentary league can do more than did the Women's Inter parliamentary leaders of these other nation ... national Peace Com·ention that held a meeting in this city a l\Ir. GREEN of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlemftn few days ago? yield? l\Ir. BLANTOl\. If they did not do any more than that, then l.\lr. WINGO. Yes. God deliver us from it. l\Ir. GREEN of Iowa. Ho\v else are we ever to reach nn l\fr. TINCHER. Will the gentleman yield? agreement? How el~e are we to get to a common ground if we l\Jr. BLANTON. Ye!'. do not have these leaders meet and exchange idea · and go over l\Ir. TINCHER. As I understand, the gentleman is thoroughly the matter? :familiar with wbat the gentleman from Ohio [l\Ir. BURTON] Mr. WINGO. That is one way. I do not want tu get into a is going to say in his ke~·note speech, but he is hazy as to wbat controversial matter. While I make no pretension to extraor every other nation, and we shall say to them that no one shall nothing but quibbling. One side said that we were surrendering be 'Permitted to rock the boat and precipitate war and break our sovereignty, and the other side said that is not intendecl. down the whole economic machinery, destroy trade and com Oh, gentlemen, if they had the courage and the capacity of a merce, and end the sons of men down to the field of battle. half dozen country lawyers they could have proceeded very They will have to exhaust all peaceful remedies and they will differently and had reservations agreed upon that would have have to let their neighbors consider their contrm·e.rsy and then reassured some who thought that independence might be sur let public opinion b1ing pressure to bear upon the statesmen rendered or sov-ereignty impaired; they could have gotten of the two contending nations, and through the power of that together, call it an association of the nations, a concert of the. great moral force of public opinion as expended by the peoples powers, a world court, or whate-ver you want to call it, I do of the earth peace will be secured. My friends, that is the not care about the name, but I want, Mr. Ch.airman, and what only way you will have a stable, permanent peace in the world. the mothers of America demand and what Christian civiliza- . !Applause.] tion is going to hav-e, is a mobilization, n•Dt of political Gentlemen talk about what is going to be in the platform powers, but a mobilization of the moral forces of every nation of either party. Do you suppose anybody is very much dis on earth to say to the immoral selfish forces that justice and turbed about tbat except the platform makers themselves? I courtesy and reason and right displace the arbitrament of the venture the assertion that I could stand up a majority of men sword. on both sides of the aisle and catechise them about the Re That is the thing that is going to come sooner or later, and publica.n and Democratic platforms for the last . eight or ten let the peanut politician who thinks he can stem the tide of -campaigns and that the record would show that they were fit the welling thought and aim of the statesmen of the earth wait objects for the intelligence tests which are applied to the gra.m for his end. It will come. It makes no difference, in the end, mer- chool students of this city. We had an example of it what is put in the platform of either the political parties this here.· dy friend from Texas [1\ir. BLANTON] talked about my time. You have noticed in the hisoory of this Nation that when friend from Ohi-0 [l\fr. BURTON] the keynoter. At least the apparently we seemed to be divided, confused, struggling, ap nepubliran Party is beginning to how a glimmer of intelli parently with some great problem, and overnight somehow gence, and that was indicated when they selected the gentle we composed our differences and agreed upon some great settle man from Ohio to act as keynoter. [Applause.] If anybody ment of that problem· which was demonstrated in later years knows the Republican doctrine, he knows it, and he has the to be wi ·e and sound. That is the history of American states courage and the candor of that doctrine. We saw in the last manship. Some day the sun will .rise br"ght for world peace; campaign the biggest men the Republicans had, Mr. Hughes some day the peanut politicians of America will be swept and others, telling the American people that if they wanted to aside; some day there will be a plan evolved by the Republi get into a league of nations they should vote th-e Republican cans and the Demoerats on which all in America can .agL·ee ticket. Eyery time some one wants to Wk about any 'con that will ha1-e for it.s pmJ.)ose :perhaps an association of this troverted matter we are told that there was a verdict of Kation, not for political leadership so much as moral leader 7,000,000 votes against it. Why, there were a composite lot of ship, that will constitute a force for Christian civilization that things that moved the electorate of America 11.t the last cam will make less frequent the sacrifices of our boys in war. That paign. You would have to say that those seven million did is what I have in my mind. [Applause.] And I am not going not ha"\e a bit -0f faith in the sincerity l______...:... ______.. 8074 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE :MAY 7 to the question immediately under consideration, the resolution struct them. They went over just merely as three individuals before us authorizing an invitation from the President to the by reason of belonging to this body. They had no instruction other countries for a meeting of the Interparliamentary Union by the House of Representatives. They were not elect~d by here next year and for an appropriation of $50,000 for that !__he House of Representatives. They had no official standing. purpose. '£hey were just three individual American citizens. I desire to review briefly the history of this Interparlia Mr. BURTON. None whatever. But those representatives mentary Union. It was established in the year 1889. Those were from Congress, and included also in the list were l\Iessrs. who bad to do with this organization were all interested in RAKER and CHI1\1>BLOM, of this House. Senator WALSH, of Mon the cause of peace and in the settlement of international con tana, was at Stockholm, and Senators ROBINSON, of Arkansas, troversies by arbitration and legal methods. They met at divers McKINLEY, of Illinois, SWANSON, of Virginia, ASHURST, of places, members of legislative bodies from· some of the leading Arizona, llARRELD, of Oklahoma, and STERLING, of South Dakota, countries of Europe. They framed propositions for arbitration were at Copenbagen, with perhaps one or two others whose treaties which might be accepted as a model for the nations to names have gone from me. Doctor TEMPLE was at Vienna, but adopt. The model treaty, submitting all classes of disputes to not at Copenhagen. We were able to state to the assembled arbitration as negotiated between Denmark and Holland, was members from Europe and Asia, in fact, the viewpoint of the due in no small degree to the activities of this union. United States on the great questions of the day. We were The most prominent among the founders was 1\lr. William insistent in saying to them that the United States was not Randal Cremer, who had a rather romantic history. He was a without interest in their welfare and the peace of the world ; carpenter by trade, and became interested in the settlement of that we were ready to join in any rational movement, consistent industrial disputes. He was elected to P.arliament and came with our own Constitution and our own vital inrerests, in to this country with an unprecedented petition, signed by over promoting their interests and the establishment of peace among 200 very prominent Englishmen, in favor of an arbitration the nations. We brought home the fc>reign viewpoin~, and that treaty between the United States and Great Britain. That contact was not without benefit to this body and to the repre treaty was presented by President Cleveland and favorably sentatirn bodies from other countries represented in that gath reported in the Senate by a committee, of which the late ering. In each of their assemblages there have been sugges John Sherman, of Ohio, was chairman, but it failed of securing tions made which representatives have taken home with them the necessary two-thirds. Meetings of the union, however, con and presented to their own parliaments. I must expressly deny tinued. Included in their deliberations was the codification of that these meetings have been without benefit. It is true that international law and a variety of kindred subjects, all the the one great event was the calling of the second conference, while taking into account settlements by arbitration. and that stands out preeminently as the most notable achieve It accomplished substantial results in the first decade of its ment of the union. That in itself was worth while, and others existence. The members met here in the year 1904. Perhaps less' important, but most helpful in promoting good will, have their greatest accomplishment was at that meeting, when dele been accomplished by the union. gates from the United States and from a number of foreign Now, there is an appropriation asked of $50,000. I do not countries in a body called on President Roosevelt and urged think that amount unduly large. In the first place, can this him to ask the other nations to meet again in a second Hague great, wealthy country of ours-when Denmark, Sweden, and conference. President Roosevelt gave heed to that request, con poor Austria have given money generously for the entertain sulted diplomats of the different countries with a view to a ment of visitors, for the furnishing of stenographers and trans second conference, which, as a result, was held in the year lators, and for the. printing of the proceedings-afford to be 1907. It was an important step, a milestone in the history of niggardly in the amount we appropriate? If any amount less better and more friendly relations between nations. than $50,000 is required, the full $50,000 will not be expended. From that time on the union met at divers places, at London, The CHAIRl\.l..i\.N. The time of the gentleman from Ohio hns at Brussels, at Berlin, at Geneva, and at The Hague, and an expired. invitation was framed and adopted by Congress in 1914 asking Does the gentleman from Arkansas [l\Ir. Wrnoo] wish to use. for a meeting in this country in 1915. That, however, failed any time? by reason of the coming on of the Great War. The meetings Mr. MOORE of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I will yield time were suspended until 1921, when the members gathered at for the gentleman from Arkansas. I yield five minutes to the Stockholm. The following year, in 1922, they met at Vienna gentleman from Texas [Mr. CONNALLY]. and in 192i3 at Copenhagen. ' Mr. BLANTON. If I have any time remaining, I yield it The great benefit of these meetings is primarily the coming to the gentleman from Texas. together of representatives of the different parliamentary The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. BLAN bodies for consultation. This was very well expressed by Sena TON] has two minutes remaining. How much time does the tor ~IcK:rnLEY, the president of the American group, in a state gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. TEMPLE] yield to the gen ment recently made. I think I have that here. I read: tleman from Texas? Mr. TE::\IPLE. I yield 10 minutes. The advantages of such an organization readily sug~est themselves. The CHAIRl\IAN. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. CoN · Freed from the domination of any government, it represents a universal NALLY] is recognized for 17 minutes. and democratic aspiration. Nothing in it savors of particular interest Mr. CONNALLY of Texas. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of or privilege. Composed of officials, holding its conferences in houses the committee, I agree in large part with what has been said of parliament, it is itself only semiofficial. Perhaps its main service by the gentleman from Ohio [l\Ir. BURTON]. I have never at is its opportunity for parliamentarians from all parts of the world to tended any of the meetings of the Interparliamentary Union meet, to confer, to educate one another. • • • For parliamentarians and have had no personal coutact with their deliberations, but from so many different countries just to meet, officially or unofficially, it seems to me that in view of the large international possibil· at conterence, at table, at social gatherings, is in itself not without ities of such an organization, not only from the aspect of peace benefit. but from the standpoint of democracy all over the world, we A multitude of questions have been discussed at their ought to take part in th~se deliberations, and that we should meetings, including economic and financial subjects, reduction invite the Interparliamentary Union to meet in the United of armaments, problems of social policy, the rights of minori States in 1925. ties, the burden of high rates for passports and vises, and Before any great reform is brought about somebody has first improvements in international law, which from the beginning got to think about it, and then after somebody happens to think Irns been one of its objects. about it, somebody is going to have to talk about it and discuss It ha· been said that these members have no official status it. Through the clash and contact of minds and in the crucible and that is true; but many of them consult their governmen~ of argument, if I may use that exi_)ression, we gene1·ally dis before coming here, and reflect in no small degree the opinion cover the truth. As I understand the situation, the Interpar of the chancelleries of the governments from which they come. liamentary Union not only discusses questions of peace but it Mr. BLANTON. Right there would the gentleman mind discusses, among the unofficial representatives or delegates yielding just for one question? from the various parliaments of the world that are members 1\Ir. BURTON. No. of that organization, many governmental questions. For in Mr. BLAl'l"TON. Take, for instance, this body. The last stance, there is a great problem that is of world-wide impor· three men we sent, if I remember correctly, were the distin tance. Each nation in discussing that problem with the rep guished gentleman from Ohio, and Doctor TEMPLE, and Gov resentatives of other nations becomes acquainted with their ernor l\loNTAGtJE. Were they not the three? methods of dealing with that situation. So I tuke it that, al / Mr. BURTON. Yes; but not all who attended. though these gentlemen who are delegates to the Interparlia I Mr. BLANTON. This House did not elect them. This mentary Union do not represent their governments in the sense Hous~ did not )nstruct them. This Government did not in· that they have any authority to bind their governments and 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8075 ha>e no power to act for their governments, yet through this it, was simply the development of such idenls. It was not alone lnsh·umentality there is always present the possibility of set a development of the conception that callecl the conferences at ting in motion those forces ancl those lines of thought which The Hague so ruuch as it was the development of the idea of will redound to good government throughout the whole world. world peace that runs back to the time of Sully, the minister of While I am not an internationalist, while I believe in na Henry IV of France. It runs back tllrongll the days of Jeremy tionality and believe in retaining the individuality of my own Bentham and of the German philosopher, Kant, and of the country, I believe that our own people are served nnd that this great Frenchman, Rousseau. All of them advocated an inter Go>ernment is served whenever, anywhere on ·this revolving national arrangement to preserve peace. So, after all, it is not gloue, any :wrnrnment can be led to the adoption of an improved new. We are simply in the process of developing the idea, anc.l I go\ernmental system and form of government, and whenever believe that the Interparliamentary Union will contribute to tllere can be established in the minds of that nation tbe proper that desirable end. concepts of peace and orderly government. I even ham hopes of our friends, the Republicans, embracing If twe jndividmils have a misunderstanding nnd either of ·some doctrine of that kind. I am told that when the wild ele them is disposed to settle it peaceably, the best wuy in the phant in the jungle is captured be is not able to perform the world to settle is peaceably is to get them togetller and let them splendid tricks you see him perform in the circus. 'J..'bcy say talk the que:::tion over. Then frequently they will arrive at a that tlle wild elephant can not stand on upturnetl tul>s and do just and fair conclusion. Why do we have debate in Com all of tl1e marvelous tricks of the ring. They catch this wild mittee of the Whole? Why do we have debate in this House? elephant in tlle forest and before the trainers put harness on Wl1y did tlle Constitution, and why did the rules of the House him they try out a surcingle on him, and when Ile kicks and proYide for 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8077 representatives through coming in contact with representafrrns Mr. KING. Where were they during the war and prior to from free countries will likely go back with an inspiration for the war? There was no endence on their part. liberty. l\fr. BLANTON. They did not meet during the war. Mr. WEFALD. Will it do much good to ha"\"e representa Mr. KING. But they canied the expense all the same. tive come here from Italy and Spain, considering the way that Mr. UPSHAW. I understand this Interparliamentary they praetice democracy over there to-day? Union is to create international fellowship and thus lessen the l\fr. C0.1. INALLY of Texas. The effect of international ex probabilities of war, and because of that fact I rejoice to ample and influence will be helpful in that respect. The his sn1lport this measure. [Applause.] tory of the United States is un example of that. It hai:; been The CHAIIl~IAlY The time of the gentleman has expired. 140 years ,_ ince through re--rolution~ we drove the armies of l\1r. BLANTON. This is a peace-time entertainment proposi a king from our shores and emerged from a colonial form of tion, is it not? goYernment and became the great Uepublic of the West. It Mr. LAGUARDIA. How could they meet in war? It would wa.· not ma ur year. after our ~ truggle for liberty had made ham been unlawful for a Member of Congress to.do so. u. a nation before the French people, labQ.ring under cen The Clerk read as follows : turies of monarchy, laboring under centuries of oppre. sion, Joint resolution (S. J. Res. 104) ttquesting the President to invite the ro ~ e in tl1eir wrath and struck from their cramped limb tlle Interparliamentary union to meet in Washington City in 1925, and chains of slavery. It wa not long, during the period from authorizing an appropriation to defray the expenses of the meeting. 1810 to 1 ~O, catching inspiration from our own example and that of the F1·ench, before the Spanish colonies of Central Wherea._ the Congress, in an act approved June 30, 1914, requested and South America ·et on foot revolutions that brought them the Pre, itlent to extend an invitation to the Interparliamentary Union independence. A little later the spirit of remit swept through to hold its annual meeting for the year 1915 in the city of Washington, the monarchie.· of Europe. That same tide of revolution and in th~ ame act appropriated the sum of $40,000 to defray the ex penses of the said meeting; and against tl1e old ~rstem has been progressing all through these rears, and it i on the march now. I think I can hear the Whereas when the World War led to repeated postponements of the foot ·teps of the people of the earth marching on the way aid meetin~ the Congress repeatedly extended the appropriation: First, from kingdom;~ and monarchies to self-gowrnment, and I the act of July 1, 1916, extended it and made it available for the calen believe tllat the ideals of democratic and repre entati'V'e gov dar years llH6 and 1917: second, the act of March 3, 1917, extended ernment tllrough tlle earth will be subserved by the meeting the appropriation and made it available for the calendar year 1918 ; of tile Interparlinmentary Union and hr the dissemin11tion third. the act of April t;;, 1918, extended the appropriation and made it through it of parliamentary principles all over the world. available for the calendar year 1919 ; and [APJllause.] Whereas this appropriation, repeatedly extended, has lapsed, and no The CHAIR;.\L\K. The time of the ..,entleman has again part of it hanng been expended, and the meeting thus arranged for in expired. Washington City has not been held: Therefore be it l\Ir. l\IOOilE of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield fise minutes Re -olve The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the pre TIIE SPY HYSTERIA amble. The preamble was agreed to. . Says l\fr. Zechariah Chafee, professor of law, Harvard Uni· The SPEAKER. The question is on the third reading of the versity, in his book, Freedom of Speech: resolution. No one reading the simple language of the espionage act of 1917 The resolution was ordered to be read a third time, and was would have anticipated that it would be rapidly turned into a law under :read the third time. which opinions hostile to the war had practically no protection. The SPEAKER. The question is on the passage of the resolu- This feeling was largely due to the hysterical fear of spies and other tion. German propaganda. All of us looking back to 1917 and 1918 are now 1\Ir. BLAl~TO~. Mr. Speaker, I ask for a division. sure that the emotions of ourselves and everyone else were far from The SPEAKER. A division is demanded. noxmal. I remember hearj.ng one woman on a railroad train say to The House divided; and there wer~ayes 58, noes 4. another: So the resolution was passed. "Yes; my brother was going to France with the Y. M. C. A., On motion of l\Ir. TEMPLE, a motion to reconsider the vote but the sailing of his boat has been put off and put off. I don't whereby the resolution was passed was laid on the table. like to say it isGerman propaganda, but it certainly looks like it.·• Mr. TEMPLE. l\Ir. Speaker, I mow to lay on the table the Mr. John Lord O'Brian, Assistant to the Attorney General in tlrn Honse bill of similar import. prosecution of the most important espionage act cases, gives a vh""id The motion was agreed to. account of the :l'alse stories of enemy actiyities within the United LEAVE TO ADDRESS THE HOLTSE States put forth through the medium of press dispatches, pamphlets of :Mr. UPSHAW. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that patriotic sodeties, and occasionally siweches on the floor of Congress. on Friday morning, after the disposal of business .on the "DEMEINTIA AMERICANA /1 Speaker's desk, I may have the pleasure of addressing the "A phantom ship sailed into our harbors with gold from the House for 25 minutes. Bolsheviki with which to corrupt the country; another phantom The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Georgia asks unani ship was found carrying ammunition from one of our harbors to mous consent to address the House on Friday for 25 minutes. Germany ; submarine captains landed on our coa ts, went to 'the Is there objection? theater and spread influenza germs; a new species of pigeon, l\Ir. BEGG. Reserving the right to object, :Mr. Speaker, thought to be German, was shot in Michigan ; mysterious air has the gentleman from Georgia consulted the gentleman from planes floated over Kansas at night," etc. Ohio. the floor leader [Mr. LONGWORTH]? "Then there were the alleged spies themselves. Spoermann, ~Ir. UPSHAW. I have not. alleged intimate of Bernstorft', landed on our coasts by the U-SJ, Mr. BEGG. I shall have to object administrator of large funds, caught spying in our camps, turned Mr. BLAKTON. Do we have to have the consent of the out to be a plumber from Baltimore. gentleman from Ohio? " Several other alleged spies caught on the beaches signaling Mr. BEGG. 'l'his involves the consumption of time. to submarines were subsequently released because they were M.r. UPSHAW. I did not have opportunity to speak to the honest men, one of whom had been changing an incandescent gentleman from Ohio. Does the gentleman object? light bulb in his hotel room; another of whom was trying to Mr. BEGG. I do. attract the attention of a passer-by on the beach," etc. The SPEAKER. Objection is made. "There was no community in the country so small that it did REPEAL THE ODIOUS ESPIONAGE ACT not produce a complaint because of failure to intern or execute l\Ir. BERGER Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to at least one alleged German spy. These instances are cited only extend my remarks on th~ subject discussed in yesterday's to show how impossible it was to check that kind of war hysteria. RECORD. and war &citement." The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the PASSION FOR BECOMIYG SPIES gentleman from Wisconsin? Yet not one case under thls part of the statute shows the slightest There was no objection. evidence that the utterances were actuated by German money or Mr. BERGER. Mr. Speaker and gentlemen, I have intro German plans. Mr. O'Brian s.ays it is doubtful if even the I. w. w. duced a bill to repeal the law which punishes "acts of interfer had any German support. Besides this fear of German spies, another ence with the foreign relations, the neutrality, and the foreign influence which made fair trials under the espionage act very difficult commerce of the United States," misnamed the espionage act, was the passion of Americans for becoming spies. Not only did the under the provisions of which no spy has ever been caught or American Protective League act as auxiliary to the Department of punished, but many thousand citizens have been maltreated Justice, but, as the same authority says: and mi1lions kept in abject fear. " Throughout the country a number of large organizations and Opposition of the Socialist Parties of all countries against societies were created for the purpose of suppressing sedition. imperialistic and commercial wars is as old as international The membership of these associations ran into the )lundreds of socialism. thousands. One of them carried full-page advertisements in lead· NO OTHER COUNTRY HAD SUOH PERSECUTION ing papers from the Atlantic to the Pacific, offering in substance It is worth noting that the proclamations of all the European to make every man a spy chaser on the payment of a dollar mem socialists in 1914 against the war were very much like the bership fee. No other cause contributed so much to the oppression proclamation and war program of the American socialist., of innocent men as the systematic a.nd indiscriminate agitn.tiou adopted in St. Louis in 1917. Even the phraseology was almost against what was claimed to be an all-pervasive system of German the same. espionage." The Socialist Party in every country was too weak to stop NOT .A SIXGLE GE~UINE SPY CASE the war. In no other country, however, were socialists perse· Under the espionage act, according to the report of the Attor· euted as in the United States. ney General, not a single man was convicted of being a German DEPRIVED OF ALL MAIL, EVEN LET'l'ERS spy, of trying to find out military secrets, or having had com What happened to me is this: A citizen of Milwaukee, Wis., munication with the enemy. American citizens, however, have I was indicted in Chicago, in the State of Illinois, under that been sentenced to terms as long as 20 years in the penitentiary so-called " espionage act" for having written and spoken for remarks made in private conversation about this war. It was a crime to say or write that the war was caused by against om· participation in the war. I was compelled to fur commercial rivalry. · nish bail there amounting to $100,000. I was under bail for $45,000 more on other indictments in Wisconsin for the same To doubt that it was an " idealistic war " meant that tbe articles. doubting Thomas was immediately arrested as a pro-German, or at least a socialist-which prove The real reason that the war we have just finished took p.lace ';rRl'.l A.LI»N AND SEDITIOX J,.tWS was ti.it Germany was afraid that her conunerciaJ. rivals we.re ln l-798 tlle impending war with France, the spread of revolutionary going to get the better of her, a,.nd the reason why some nations doctrines by .foreigners in our midst, and the spectacle of the clisas went iinto the war against Germany was that they thought that trous ope.ration of those doctrines abroad-facts that have a. familiar Germany would get the commercia.l advantage of rt:hem. sound to-day-Jed to the enaotmimt of the alien and sedition Jaws. CIVIL WAR WAS DECIDED NEAR WASHINGTON, D. C, The alien law allowed the President to compel the departure pf alie.ns w.ho.m he judged dangerotlS to tbe peace and safety of the United Abraham Lincoln waged a war for four years, in.finitely States, or ·suspecteu, on reasonable grounds, of treasonable or secret an more dangerous to our country and to the Union, without znachinations against our Government. "espionage" law. It was a war which divided our popula The s-edition laws punished false, scandalous, and malicious writings It tion in almost every city, e1,en up Nortb. was a war against the Gonrnment, e.i.ther House of Congress, or the President, if which in the m::i.in was fought out and decided within 100 published with intent to defame a.ny of them, or to excite against them miles of Washington. But Lineoin refused to :Qa.ve a gag law the hatred of the people, or to stir up sedition or to excite resistance enacted. of law, or to aid frny hostile design of any foreign nation against the But to quote Professor Chafee's book again, he says: United .States. The maximum penalty was a fine of $2,000 and two SOME OF THE 2,000 CASES years' imprisonment. It i unnecessary to f.eview tbe 2,000 eapionage aet prosecutions Truth was a defense, and the jury had power to determine criminality. in detail, but a !ew general results may be presented b.ere. WRECKED THJ'J FEDERALIST PARTY The courts have treated opinions ~ stateJ:P:en.ts of fact and then De~pite the inclusion of the two legal rules for which reformers had conck>mned them because they differed .from the President's ~pee~ contended, and the requireiuent of an actual intention to cause overt or the resolution of Congress declaring war. Almost all the con injury, the sedition act was bitterly resented by the people at that time vi,ctiops bave been for ~xpressions ot opinion about the merits and a.s invading the liberty of the press. conduct of the war. Its constitutionality was assailed on th~t ground by _Thomas Jeffer Tt became criminal to advocate heav.i,er taxation inst~d of bond son, who pardoned all prisoners when he became 'President. issues, to sta. te tbAt ~o.nsctiption was unconstitutional though the Congress eventu!illy -repaid .all the fines, and popular indignation Supreme Court had not yet held it valid-to say that the -sinking of at the act and the prosecutions entirely wrecked the Federalist Pavty, mercbau.t vessels was l~al-to urge that a ):ef~endw:n should have WHERE ESPIONAGil LAW DIFFERED );)receded OID" declaration of war-to say tllat war was contra.ry to tbe teachings Qt ·Christ. Now, the e&Pionage act of 191:7 was in the main a true copy Men nave been puni ·bed for crttici~J.n.g .the R~d Cross and the Young of the law of 1W8, With this difference, however: The maxi Men's C~ristian Association, while Wld.er the Mipne6o1:a espionage act mnm penalty was raised from a fine of $2,000 and 2 years' it has been held a crime to dis.courage wWJJ.en from knitting )Jy the imprisonment to a fine of ~10,000 and 20 years' nartl labor in remark, "No soldier ever sees these socks." the _penitentiary. It was ·in no way necessar,y tllat these ,ei::p.r.essions of opinion 6llould Mo:r:eo\er, the truth of a statement w·as not admitted as a. be addi:ei:;sed to soldiers or men on tbe point of J:>eing eulisted -or Clefense. WAS USED AGAlNST SOCIALIST PARTY drafted. :Most jndg~s held it enough !f 1the word..s ,might Ct>nceivably reach such men. And it was used 1:0 try 1to destroy -the Socialist Party as a matter of course. AL)'.; GENUINll DISOUSSION JlllCAMll Pl:lULOUS .Although ~Y codefendants and I were told at the beginning They have ma.de it impossible for an opponent of the waT to write of our trial in Chicago by the United States district attorney an article or even a letter in a newspaper of general circulation, that the "Socialist Party was not on trial," a few minute. because it will be read in some training camp where it might cause µJ;ter we had been fo.und guilty by the .hand-picked jury, the immborcfinatit>n or int&fere with military suer state supported by terrorism. nnd the Go:vernment ls for profiteers," because what is said to As to socialism, well, with people who believe that whatevm" mothers, sisters, and sweethearts may lessroi -fheir entbusiasm f.or the is will exist forever~ and that we have reached the acme of war, and our anroiea in tbe .fi~d a.nd our navies .uPQn the seas can ch-ilization and the end of all things in economic progress, operate and succeed only so fac 813 .tlu!y a-re supported and maintained wtth such people it is uiireless to argue. by the folks at hon;.e. That we have not reached "the end of our economic develop The doctriue of indirect causation never bad .better illu,stl!ation tban ment i clear. 'Every new ;invention and every new political Jn this charge. question proves that t-0 us. We do not even know how best A.NO'l:'HllR CHARAC!I!ER IS'l'lC CASI> to u e the ~laborate machinery we have inTented. Many men have been imprisoned for arguments or profanity used Nor need I explain to any sensible man that the world-wide in the ileat of private altCTca'tfon, on a railroad tl•ain, in a 'hotel socialist movement is not to be traced' to the irresponsible lobby, or at the battle ground of disputation-a boarding-house table. work of individual agitators or eccentl'ic persons. Determined In one case two strangers came to a farmhouse and asked the owner opponents of the ·present privately ,owned system of industry if he could let them have gasoline, saying that they had been stranded as socialists are, we never charge that the concentration of out in the country. .He Jlot only gave them the gasoline but invited capital is the cause of all evil. We lo6k the facts squarely them to dinner. An argument arose during the meal, and the farmer in the face. used scurrilous and presumably unpatriotic language in the presence We know that the trusts are the legitimate outcome of com of his guests, two hired men, two nieces, and some cWJ.dren. The petition. The trust is "the survival of the 'fittest·" under guests reported his language and he was ·con:victed of a willful attempt private ownership. The trust appears after competition has to cause disloyalty, insubordmation, mutiny, and refusal of duty in the virtually destr-0yed competition. Socialists, therefore, do not military and naval forces of the United States. try "to smash the trusts." Even unexpressed thoughts have been prosecuted through an in On the contrary, socialists appreciate so fully the ad genious method of inquisition. vantages of industrial _production on a large scale that we wish DID NOT A.GREii WITH PRESID»N'T its most perfect development. But we socialists wish to give A few concrete cases of con'Victions that have been upheld will show its benefits to everybody. For that reason we want to na how the espion&ge act operates to punish expressions of opinion. For tionalize the trusts. instance: . The control of production by the people as a whole means J. P. Doe, son of the great chief justiC1l of New Hampshire, while the highest possible perfection of industry on a large scale living in Colorado because of bad health, mailed an " endless-chain " and the extension of the advantage to all the people. letter, to be r;ent "to friends of immediate peace," which stated that, SOCIALISM PURELY MATTER OJI' EVOLUTION nlthough the President and Secretary ot State had said Germany had Thus socialism must be purely a matter of evolution. The ~roken her promise to end submarine warfare, Germany had made no day never will come when anybody can assemble the people in such promise, but had reserved in the Sussea; note complete liberty of t.he market square and tell them that from next l\1onday morn decision as to the future. Doe was .sentenced to 18 months in prison. ing at 8 o'clock they will have socialism. The Bolshevik.i Only once in our history prior to 1917 bas an attempt been made to tried to put over communism iu a sudden fashion and failed .JLPPlY those doctrines. miserably• 8080 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ~fAY 7 ALL l\IY PBEDICTIO~S RAVI!> COUil TRUil Now I believe I can not serve my country better or do it a As to my position against the late war-well, I need retract greater service than by putting in a bill to repeal this vicious nothing from the articles I ha rn written or fl'om the speeches ~~ . I have ·delivered, because all my predictions have come true. In this respect I know I am at one with Thomas Jefferson And a great deal more bas already developed than I have pre and Alexander Hamilton, both of whom were leaders of oppos dicted. ing parties ; both of whom, however, defended cases that were This was the worst imperialistic war ever known in the his brought for prosecution under the sedition act and conducted tory of the world. Krery honest man who has any brains ad the defense in the name of the liberty of the press. mits it now. This war made about 30,000 new millionaires in America alone. A. DISGRACE TO TWENTIETH CENTURY WHAT WAR COST AMERICA It is simply a disgrace for the twentieth century that such a law could be revived in our century, and even more so that The Milwaukee Leader often dwelt upon the unparalleled it was fathered by a party that had its origin in the general pro cost of the war. A statistical summary of America's war ex test of the Ame1ican people against that infamous law--the pense places the total at $40,000,000,000, and it is stated that Democratic Party. "we could have for the cost of this war carried on the Revo PROPAGANDA lutionary War for 1,000 years." And we had 323,000 casualties. Or, to put the matter differently, this sum would have been Mr. DICKI~SON of Iowa. .Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous enough to pay the cost of running the American Government consent to extend my remarks in the RECORD by inserting a from 1791 up to the outbreak of the European war. letter which I ask the Clerk to read. It is on the l\IcNary RllSULT TO RE-ST OF WORLD Haugen bill and the propaganda being sent out by the boards of trade. And what has been accomplished by these sacrifices? An The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa asks unani impossible "peace" was dictated at Versailles. Europe has mous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD by in been paralyzed economically and politically. serting a letter. Is there objection? The world's economic fabric, which has its heart in central Mr. CONNALLY of Texas. I do not think such things Europe, largely has been destroyed, and billions of property should be put in the RECORD. with it. Mr. DICKINSON of Iowa. It is a warning to show what Millions in all countries can not find employment. Nations is being sent out in the way of propaganda. This letter is are staggering under colossal debts and are unable to pay even against the :\lcNary-Haugen bill, and it tells how they want the interest. · people to send in postal cards to l\Iembers of Congress. At tbe same time most nations are swaying between anarchy .Mr. LA.GUARDIA. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to ob and tyrannical despotism. Please witness conditions in Italy. ject, this propaganda that the gentleman refers to is nothing There the Fascisti, a revolutionary mob, under the guise of new, is it? patriotism are imposing a new form of terrorism and slavery I am getting hundreds of letters on the Barkley bill, wWch upon the common people. are inspired, and if we commence putting in notices to Mem WOULD HA VE HELPED WORLD BY STAYING OUT bers on propaganda, shall we not be encumbering the RECORD to a great extent? As for America, we assuredly had no valid reason for l\Ir. DICKINSON of Iowa. This is an exceptional letter plunging into the war, and could have saved a good deal of the and is beyond the ordinary scope. We are acquainted with civilization of the white race by staying out. The rulers of cert.ain forms of propaganda, but this is beyond the ordinary England to-day are of the same opinion. But the Republican scope. · and the Democratic Parties allowed America to be sold into the The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The World War, and as a result of this act America shares in the Chair hears none. The Clerk will read the letter. consequences of a collapse of the world's economic sys.tern. The Clerk read as follows : · America has gained nothing except billions of debts and hundreds of thousands of cripples. And we have lost most of MARSHALLTOWN, IOWA, April 29, 1924. our political democracy. We now have our own Fascisti in DEAR SIR: The McNary-Haugen bill looks more certain than ever. the Ku-Klux Klan, one of the many manifestations of the mob The various agricultural organizations have succeeded in impre,:;sing spirit fostered by the war, which is trying to establish a reign Congress that the farmers of the country are unanimously in favor o! of terror not only against the negroes but particularly against the proposed legislation. Politicians figure that it is up to them to the Catholics, Jews. radicals, and all those who are not "native support this bill if they are to stand a show at the fall elections. born " Protestants. The only way we can defeat such legislation is to prove to Congress that farmers are not in favor of such socialistic legislation. The time TYIUNNICAL SENT»NCE FINALLY KNOCKED OUT to act is now, and I am inclosing a card for you to fill in witil the Because, as a student of the world's history, I could see names and addresses of 10 farmers in your territory that are oppo ed clearly, and because I warned my fellow men, my countrymen, to this bill. When these cards are filled out, please return them to the of the events that were bound to happen if we pursued a cer public relations committee, Chicago Board of Trade. This com tain course, if we plunged into this World War, I was indicted, mittee in turn will forward to the list of farmers a personal letter, found guilty, and sentenced to serve 20 years in the peni setting forth arguments against the bill, and give them leads as to the tentiary. wording of a letter to their Congres~man and Senator. This sentence and the verdict have since-on January 31, Time is a vital element, since this bill wlll come up within 10 days 1921-been knocked out by the Supreme Court of the United pos ibly sooner. States, and all the other indictments have been quashed. With best personal regards, I am But the infamous espionage act is still on the statute books. Yours. very truly, DmAN S. FISK. l\Jy personal experience with that law, however, is ended. :\Ir. CONNALLY of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? - OL'STED ME FROM SEAT TO WHICH I WAS LEGALLY llLECTl!lD l\Ir. DICKINSON of Iowa. Ye~. Nevertlleless the fact remains that I was to be punished for l\fr. CONNALLY of Te.xas. Does the gentleman vouch for telling the truth as I saw it-and many other citizens were the writer of this letter? imprisoned. l\1r. DICKINSON of Iowa. Yes. l\loreoYer, the old parties in the House of Representatives l\lr. CONNALLY of Texas. That it is genuine? almost succeeded in depriving the Socialist Party, a party l\Ir. DICKINSON of Iowa. Yes; it is genuine; this is the ca.sting more than a million votes, of its sole Representative original letter. in Congress. Twice I was refused admission on account of l\Ir. ABERNETHY. Who is Dean S. Fisk? my opposition to this war. I was finally seated on December 5, l\lr. DICKINSON of Iowa. He is the representative at 1923, without a dissenting rnte-due to the determined and Marshalltown, Iowa, of the commission firm of Henry Rang & wonderful stand of the voters of the fifth district of Wisconsin Co., of Chicago, Ill. for representati\-e government. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Will the gentleman yield? As a matter of fact, a large number of socialists in Congress l\lr. DICKINSON of Iowa. Yes. would be a blessing to this country; tliey and their measures Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Does the gentleman know stand between present society and planless chaos. whether he has communicated with the President of the United States touching the matter? MY DUTY AT PRESEXT l\Ir. DICKINSON of Iowa. I have not that information at To sum up: I have always been proud of the socialist record hand. of observance of law. Tl1e socialists ha"\"e tried to change or l\1r. BLANTON. Does not the gentleman recognize that is repeal such laws as in their opinion were harmful real propaganda? / r' I 192-! CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 8081 1----~-~-~-~~---~--~----_;;______ l\Ir: Dif'KL'"SON of Iowa. Why, of course, it is propaganda.1 The SPE~R. Is there objection? ~Jr. BLANTOX In favor of the bill? 1\Ir. LONGWORTH. l\lr. Speaker, I make the point of order ::\Ir. DICKINSO~ of Iowa. How is that? that such a Tequest-- l\1r. BLANTON. Does not the gentleman think that the 1\Ir. SNYDER. I object. purpose of writing that letter was to bring about a reaction RELIEF OF MADA:YE CRIG~IER, OF FRA~CE .in favor of the bill? _ :Mr. DICKL~SON of Iowa. No. It ls written for the pur Mr. PORTIDR Mr. Speaker, I call up Senate bill 239!!, an po e of lml'ing telegrams sent in. to Members of Congress. I act authorizing an appropriation to indemnify damages caused already have five from one little village in my district sent by by the search for the body of Admiral John Paul Jones. persons who know nothing about the bill, but sent upon request. The Clerk read the title of the bill. CONTROL OF HABIT-FORMING NARCOTIO DRUGS 1\Ir. PORTER. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the bill be considered in the House as in Committee of the l\lr. PORTER. llr. Speaker, I move to take House Joint Whole. Resolution No. 195 ffl>m the Speaker's table and agree to the The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pennsylvania asks Senate amendments. It i a resolution authorizing an appr~ priation for the participation of the United States in two inter unanimous consent that the bill be considered in the House national conferences for the control of the t.raffic in habit-form as in Committee of the Whole. Is there objection? [After ing narcQtic drugK a peu e.] The Chair hears none-, and the Clerk will report Tlle SPEAKBR. The gentleman from Pennsylvania calls the bill. up HolIBe Joint Ilesolution 195, with Senate amendments, Tbe Clerk read the bill, as foIIows : • J which the Clerk will report by title. Be it trnactew, etc., That an appropriation is authorized to be made The Clerk i·ead as follows: for $13,511.13 to be paid to the Government of the Republic of France House joint resolution (H. J. Res'. 195) authorizing an appropria as a matter of grace and without referen~e to the question of liability tion for the participation of the United States in two international tberefor as full indemnity for loss and damage to property suffered conference, for' the control o! the traffic in habit-forming narcotic by Madame Crignier, a citizen of France, by reason of the search drugs. for the body of Admiral John Paul Jones, undertaken in 1899 by Gen. Horace Porter, at that time American ambassador to France, The Senate amendments were read and agreed to. and completed by the finding of the body in 1905, as set forth in MESSAGE FRO:ll THE Pr.ESTDE-~T OF THE UNITED STATES-INTERN.A:· the mes age~ of the President of the United States to the Senate TIOX.\L EXPOSITIOX AT SEYU,LE, SPAIN { • DOC. NO. 106) and the House of Repre entatives dated June 4, 1918, July 21, 1919, The SPEAKER laid before the Hou e the following message July 11, 1921, and January 3, 1924. from the Pre~ident of the 'Gnitecl States, which was read and, Mr. PORTER. Mr. Speaker, I yield five minutes to the with the accompanying papers, referred to the Committee on gentleman from Ohio [Mr. BEGG]. Inrlustrial Arts and Expositions: 1\Ir. BEGG. !\Ir. Speaker and Members of the House, I do (fo t7le CongreRs of tlle Unitea States: not believe it will require fire minutes to make the statement I transm1t herewith a report by the Secretary of State con on this little bill. cerning an inYita tion extended by the Government of Spain to There haYe been four Presidents and five Secretaries of State the Government of the l:nited States to participate in an who have recommended the payment of this claim. Now, what international expo 'iti{)n of the arts, sciences, hist.ory, indus is the claim? When Gen. Horace Porter was ambassador to tries. commerce, and resources of Spain, Portugal, and the France years ago, out of his own private fortune he under· Republic of America, which is to open at Seville, Spain, on took the discovery of the remains of John Paul Jones; and in April 17, 1927, and contio.ue throughout that year. order to make the investigation it was found necessary for I join with the Secretary of State in recommending legis him to make a contract with a private party to go in and lation ·by Congre~:;; authorizing the acceptance of the invita make the excavations. This contract was made and the excava tion and an appropriation of $700,000 to enable the United tion dfd damage to property and caused suits in the French Sti1tes suitably to participate in the exposition. courts to be entered and tried, and damages awarded against It will be observed from file memorandum accompanying the Madame Crignier. She ha no other recourse than to go report of the Secretary of State that the Departments of the through. this kind of procedure, bec:mse of the diplomatic Interior, Agriculture, and Commerce are favorable to the aspects of the matter. I believe that is the only statement acceptance of the invitation and deem that participation in I care to make. llie exposition would be advantageous to the interests of the l\!r. Sll"'DLIN. Will the gentleman yield? United Stutes. Mr. BEGG. I will glaclly yield. An appropriation is not sought at this time, but merely leg~ Mr. S..L~LIN. Does thi money go to the Republic of islation that will enahle the acceptance of the. filvitation and France or to an individual? the inclusion of the item of appropriation in the estimates to Mr. BEGG. The money goes to this lady, Madame Crignier. be ~mbmittecl by the Director of the Bureau of the Budget for 1\fr. GARRETT of Tenne.. see. Will the gentleman yield? the fiscal year enrling June 30, 1926. Mr. BEGG. Gladly. CALVIN CooLimyn. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. If I caught the rell.ding of THE WHITE IIou"E, May i, 1924-. the bill correctly, it says that the money i to be paid to the REI.IEP OF DIS_.\.BLED EX-SERVICE MEN Government of France. )fr. RA..i'KIN. i\Ir. Speaker. I ask unanimous consent that . "i.\Ir. BEGG. That is in order that it migllt be paid over to immediately after the approYnl of the Journal to-morrow it l\lada.me Crignier. may be in oruer to take up for immediate considerati-0n under Mr. G.AilRFJTT of Tennessee. I assumed that was the case. the general rule of the House H. R 8869, a bill for the relief 1'Ir. BEGG. Absolutely; the lady herself· has never been of clisahletl ex-~erYice men, in order thnt we may have an indemnified for what she wa.s forced, through the French courts, opportunity to offer some amendments. to pay to the tenants on her own property for damage done to The SPEAKER. I the gentleman authorized by the com hei: building and the resulting damage on account of the ten mirtee to make thnt motion? ants being compelled to move out of the building. :\fr. LOXGWORTII. ~fr. Speaker, I make the point of order .!\Ir. ROGERS of 1\Iassachu.~etts. Will the gentleman yield? tba.t the gentleman is not authorized to do that~ Mr. BEGG. Yes. :\Ir. RA..~KIN. I am preferrin- l\Ir. BLANTON. I would feel a great deal better if tbe Re PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIONS, AND MEMORIALS public of France would come up and say, "We have not got Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolutions, and memorials tire money, but we will liquidate if you will give us 60 years were introduced and severally referred as follows : in which to pay it." By .l\lr. LAGUARDIA: A bill (H. R. 9108) limiting the use Mr. BEGG. I think the gentleman and I would not quarrel of contributions made for the purpose of influencing elections much about that. at which presidential electors, Senators, and Representatives l\lr. WEFAI,D. Would you not take a due bill on her own in Congre are elected; to the Committee on Election of Presi Government for it? dent, Vice President, and Representatives in Congrei::;s. l\1r. BEGG. That can not enter into this proposition at all. By l\Ir. BERGER: A bill (H. R. 9109) t:o repeal the espionage l\1r. WEFALD. It ought to. act; to the Committee on the Judiciary. The SPEAh.""ER. The question is on the third reading of the By l\1r. BRITTEN: A bill (H. R. 9110) to fix the number of bill. officers in the several staff corps in the several grades of rear The bill was ordered to be read a third time, was read the admiral, captain, and commander; to the Committee on Naval thil'd time, and passed. A.ffairs. ~ motion of l\lr. BEGG, a motion to reconsider the vote by By Mr. GREEN of Iowa: A bill (H. R. 9111) directing the which the bill was passed was laid on the table. remission of customs duties on certain property of the United LE.AVE OF ABSENCE States imported by the War Department; to the Com.mittee on By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted as Ways a.nd Means. follows: • By :Mr. McFADDEN: A resolution (H. Res. 300) providing To l\1r. O'SCLLIVA.N, for two days, on account of important for tile consideration of the bill (H. R. 8887) to amend an act business. entitled "An act to provide for the consolidation of national To l\Ir. HILL of Washington, for three days, on account of banking associations," approved November 7, 1918; to amend illness. section 5136 as amended, section 5137, section 5138 a amended, section 5142, section 5150, section 5155, section 5190, section ADJOURNMENT 5200 as amended, section 5202 as amended, section 5208 as l\Ir. PORTER. l\1r. Speaker, l move that the House do now amended, section 5211 as amended, of the Revised Statutes of adjourn. the United States; and to amend section 9, section 13, section The motion was agreed to; accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 11 22, and section 24 of the Federal reserrn act, and for other minutes p. m.) the House adjourned until to-morrow, Thursday, purposes; to the Committee on Rules. May 8, 1924, at 12 o'clock noon. By Mr. SCHALL: A resolution (H. Res. 301) providing for the appointment of a 'pecial committee of Members of the House REPORTS OF COIBHTTEES O~ PUBLIC BILLS AND to investignte the income-tax returns of the Backus-Brooks RESOLUTIONS" Co., of Minnesota; to the Committee on Rules. By Mr. FITZGERALD: A resolution (H. Res. 302) for the Under clause 2 of Rule XII, consideration of H. R. 487, a bill creating the District of Co Mr. McSWAIN: Committee on Military Affairs. H. J. Res. lumbia insurance fund for the benefit of employees injured and 254. A joint resolution authorizing and permitting the State the dependents of employees killed in employments, providing of Arkansas to construct. maintain, and use permanent build for the administration of such fund by the United States ings, rifle range , and utilities at Camp Pike, Ark., as are neces Employees Compensation Commis ion, and authorizing an appro sary for the use and benefit of the National Guard of the State priation therefor; to the Committee on Rules. of Arkansas; with amendments (Ilept. No. 669). Referred tQ By Ur. GALLIVAN: :Memorial of the legislature of the State the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. of Massachusetts petitioning Congress in favor of the passage Mr. GERAN: Committee on Military Affairs. S. 2431. An of legislation to prernnt .the manufacture of hoes in factories act to authorize the Secretary of War to convey to the Commis owned by the Federal Government; to the Committee on the sioners of Lewes certain land in the county of Sussex, State of Judiciary, Delaware ; without amendment ( Rept. No. 672). Referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. l\lr. SNELL: Committee on Rules. H. Res. 298. A resolution PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS providing for consideration of H. R. 3318, authorizing two Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, private bills and resolutions additional judges for southern district of New York; without were introduced and severally referred as follows: amendment (Rept. No. 670). Referred to the House Calendar. By Mr. BUTLER: A bill (H. R. 9112) for the relief of Com Mr. S.NELL: Committee on Rules. H. Res. 299. A resolu mander Charles James Anderson, United States Naval Reserve tion providing for consideration of H. R. 646, arbitration of Force; to the Committee on Naval Affairs. maritime di putes; without amendment (Rept. No. 671). Re By l\Ir. CELLER: A bill ( H. R. 9113) granting a pension t:o ferred to the House Calendar. John F. Kilbride; to the Committee on Pen ions. 1\Ir. HULL of Iowa: Committee on Military Affairs. H. R. By Mr. CULLEN: A bill (H. R. 9114) granting a pension to 6065. A bill authorizing the Secretary of War to validate Catherine A. Roe; to the Committee on Pensions. certain payments made by Army officers; with an amendment By Mr. DENISON: A bill (H. R. 9115) granting a pension to ( Rept. No. 673) . Referred to the Committee of the Whole Anna Margaret Derousse; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Honse on the state of the Union. By Mr. EV ANS of Iowa: A bill ( H. R. 9116) for the relief Mr. STALKER: Committee on the District of Columbia. of Ed F. Gauthier and Lenore N. Adams; to the 'ommittee on H. R. 6297. A. bill to pro\ide for a rearrangement ·ot the Claims. public alley facilities in square 616 in the District of Columbia, By Mr. KIESS: A bill (H. R. 9117) for the relief of the and for other purpose ; without amendment (Rept. No. 674). heirs of the late Louis F. l\leissner; to the Committee on Claims. Referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of By l\lr. LOZIER: A bi11 (H. R. 9118) granting a pension to the Union. John Woldridge; to the Committee. on Invalid Pensions. Mr. BURDICK: Committee on Naval Affairs. H. R. 6723. By l\lr. MOORE of Illinois: A bill (H. R. 9119) to ame_n? A bill to provide for reimbursement of certain civilian em the military record of Robert Zink; to the Committee on Khll ployees at the naval torpedo station, Newport, R. I., for the tary Affairs. value of personal effects lost, damaged, or destroyed by fire; By l\Ir. MOREHEAD: A bill (H. R. 9120) granting an in without amendment (Rept. No. 675). Referred to the Com crease of pension to Agnes Jones; to the Committee on Invalid mittee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. Pensions. I.fr. MOORES of Indiana: Joint Select Committee on Dispo By l\fr. THOMAS of Oklahoma: A bill (H. n_. 9121) granti~g sition of Useless Executive Papers. Useless papers in the De a pension to Annie G. Guthrie; to the Committee on Invahd partment of Labor (Rept. No. 676). Ordered to be printed. Pensions. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS AND PETITIONS, ETC. RESOLUTIONS Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid TTnder clause 2 of Rule XIII, on the Clerk's de k and referred as follows: ;Ur. TAYLOR of West Virginia: Committee on Naval Affairs. 2693. By Mr. GALLIVAN: Petition of Thomas Kelly, 6 Mar I{ R. 1706. A bill granting six months' pay to Elizabeth W. lowe Street, Dorchester, Mass., recommending early passage of Bostrom; without amendment (Rept. No. 677). Referred to the H. R. 7358 and S. 2646, known as the Howell-Barkley bill; to. Committee of the Whole House. the Committee on Interstate nnd Foreign Commerce. / 1924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 8083 2694. Bv !!Ir. Lil\TDSAY: Petition of Openers and Packers' The message further announced that the House had passed Association United States Cm,"'toms Service, appraisers' stores, a joint resolution (H. J. Res. 248) to provide for the remission port of N~w York, 641 Washington Street, ~ew York City, of further payments of the annual installments of the Chinese justly pleading for a living wage, they havu~g presented a indemnity, in which it requested the concurrence of the Senate. scale of $1,680 as a minimum to $2,040 as a maximum per y~ar. REQUESTS FOR UNA.NIMOuS CONSENT The men employed in · the customs service are now working l\lr. HOWELL. l\Ir. President, out of order, I ask unani under a scale lower than that which is paid to the men em mous con. ent to introduce a bill. ployed in the industrial and mercantile establLhments. It The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the seems only fair and proper that the Government should recog reception ·of the biJl? nize the claims of men who are rendering good and faithful Mr. ASHURST. On that I wish to be heard. sei·,ice · to the Committee on the Civil Service. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Ne 2695. ' By 1\lr. RAKER: Petition of McKinley Camp, No. 23, braska asks unanimous consent, out of order, to introduce a United Spanish War Veterans, and McKinley Auxiliary, United bill. Is there objection? Spanish War -Veterans, Long Beach, Calif., u1·ging. passage of Mr. ASHURST. I reserve the right to object. I wish to Bursum bill o\er presirlential veto; to the Comilllttee on In discuss a matter. valid Pensions. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair is of the opinion 2696. ALi;;o, petition of Emei"gency Radio Tax Committees, that when unanimous consent is asked the matter is not 165 Broadway, New York City, protesting against 10 per cent debatable. tax on radios ; to the Committee on Ways and Means. l\Ir. ROBINSON. What is the request? 2697. Bv l\1r. WILSON of Indiana: Petition signed by 40 The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Nebraska citizens o~f Newburgh, Ind., recommending that the McNary [Mr. HowELLJ asks unanimous consent to introduce a bill at Haugen bill be pa sed by the Sixty-eighth Congress; to the this time out of order. Committee on Agriculture. 1\Ir. ASHURST. I respectfully appeal to the Chair for in formation. Does the Chair hold that when a request is made for unanimous consent the matter is not debatable? · SENATE The PRESIDENT pro tempore. That is the opinion of the Chair. TnunsD.n, lJay 8, 1924 Mr. ASHURST. That is to say, any request for unanimous (L "'!ti8latfre da11 of Jlonday, May 5, 19-24) consent is not debatable? The PRESIDENT pro tempore. That is the judgment of The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian, on the expiration of the Chair. the recess. i\Ir. ASHURST. I do not complain. The Chair has been Mr. SMOOT. l\fr. Pre ident, I suggest the absence of a fair and firm. I simply desire to know that hereafter in all quorum. cases when any request for unanimous consent is made, it is The PHESIDEN.'1' pro ternpore. The Secretary \.Vi11 call not debatable. That is a good rule, and if it were adhered to the roll. it would promote the efficiency of the Senate. The Chair has Tl.le principal clerk called the roll, and the following Senators rendered a great service to-day in so holding, and if he will answered to their names: continue to hold that wheneYer a request is made for unani ~dams Ferris Ladd Sheppard mous consent it is not debatable, it will be a good rule for the .Ashurst F ess Lodge Shielcls Senate. Ball Fletcher McKellar 8hipstead The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It may be remarked that it Bayard Frazier McKinley Shortridge Ro rah George McLean Simmons is the common prac.tice. Hrandegee Gerry Mc.Nary Smith l\lr. ROBINSON. l\fr. President, it is fair to state that under Broussard Glass Mayfield Smoot the practice of the Senate a request for unanimous cottsent is Bruce Gooding Moses Spencer l~urimm Ilale Neely Stanfield sometimes discussed by unanimous consent, and that practice, Cameron Harreld Norbeck 8tephens of course, will continue. Any Senator has it within his power, Cap1ier Harris Norris St<'rling howe·rnr, by objecting, to end the debate or discussion. The Caraway Harrison Odille Swanson Colt Heflin Overman Trammell ruling of the Chair is, of course, correct C'opeland Howell Pepper Wadsworth Mr. LODGE. The debate iteelf must be by unanimous Cummins Johnson, Calif. PJiipps 'Walsh, Mass. Curtis John on, Minn. Pittman Walsh, Mont. consent. • Dale Jones, N. Mex. Ralston \Yarren Mr. .ASHURST. Of course the ruling of the Chair is cor:rect. I>ial Joues, Wa h. Hansdell Wat on I agree with the Senator from Arkansas. Dill Kendrick Reed, :Mo. Weller l·Jdge Keyes Reed, Pa. Willis The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Arkansas Ernst King Robinson has correctly stated the understanding of the Chair. The ques tion is often discussed by unanimous consent ~1r. CURTIS. I wish to announce that the junior Senator l\Ir. ASHURST. But not this morning. It can W>t be dis from Wisconsin [Mr. LEl'.-nOOT] is absent on account of illness. cussed this morning? I will Jet this announcement stand for the day. l\Ir. ROBINSON. It can, unless some Senator objects. I wa requested to aunounce that the Senator from Iowa [Mr. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair by unanimous con BROOKHART] and the Senator from l\Iontanu [Mr. WHEEJE.J] are sent has allowed colloquies to intervene upon an application for detained at a hearing before a special inw tigating committee of unanimous consent the Senate. l\Ir. ASHURST. But the Chair will not permit such collo The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Eighty-three Senators have quies this morning? Is that the ruling? answered to the roll call. There is a quorum present. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair recognizes th~ MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE Senator from· Arizona to discuss the question of the unanimous consent request. A message from the House of RepresentatiYes, by 1\Ir. Mr. ASHURST. The Chair can not recognize me to discuss Chaffee, one of its clerks, announced that the House agreed to a particular question. I can discuss any question. the amendments of the Senate to the joint resolution (H. J. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair does not recognize Res. 195) authorizing an appropriation for the participation the Senator for any purpose except to discuss the propriety of of the United States in two international conferences for the the unanimous-consent request. control of the traffic in habit-forming narcotic drugs. Mr. ASHURST. I would not indulge in such tactics. I The message also announced that the House had passed bills could not say frankly that I wish to discuss that question. I and a joint resolution of the following titles: simply want to be beard upon another question. and it WOi. Ild S. 2392. An act authorizing an appropriation to indemnify be unfair to the Chair to pretend that I wish to discuss the damages ca used by the search for the body of .Admiral John request of the Senator from :Nebraska. I want to discuss an Paul Jones; other subject, as we may do under our rules, but I do not wish S. 2998. An act providing for a study regarding the equitable to cavil with the Chair. The Chair bas been fair and, I think, use of the waters of the Rio Grande below Fort Quitman, Tex., has been correct. in cooperation with the United States of Mexico ; and The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. Is there objection to the re S. J. Res. 104. Joint resolution requesting the President to quest of the 8enator from Nebraska? The Chair hears none, invite the Interparliamentary Union to meet in Was-hington and the bill will be receh·ed and properly referred. City in 1925, and authorizing an appropriation to defray the [The bill introduced by Mr. HOWELL appears under its ap eA.-penses of the meeting. propriate heading.] I\ LXV-510