AND THE SACRED TEXT 4.29- THE DREAM: Chance

Vanessa: HI, everyone, this is Vanessa. Julia: And this is Julia Argy, Vanessa: And we are coming to you from London, England, where we are leaving for our first ever Not Sorry Productions pilgrimage tomorrow morning, where we will be reading and walking with Virginia Wolfe’s “To the Lighthouse” and treating it as a sacred text. Julia: We are also launching our second pilgrimage to Concord, Massachusetts for October 11014, where we will be treating writing as a sacred practice. And we’re going to be reading Vanessa: “Little Women” by Louisa May Alcott. And we really hope that some of you join us. We’re going to be asking ourselves the question, “What role do we want writing to play in our lives?: and talking about the book “Little Women” and seeing what answers it can give us. Julia: You can find out more about that pilgramage Vanessa: at readingandwalkingwith.com or at harrypottersacredtext.com and click on the big orange button Julia: And we hope that you enjoy this episode of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. Vanessa: Say ‘bye. Julia: Goodbye. Vanessa: No, say it like, “Byyyyye!” Julia: Oh, byyyye! Vanessa: Chapter 29, The Dream. “It comes down to this, “said Hermione, rubbing her forehead. “either Mr. Crouch attacked Victor, or somebody else attacked both of them while Victor wasn’t looking.” “It must have been crouch,” said Ron at once. (Quote continues; fades into intro music.) Vanessa: I’m Vanessa Zoltan. Casper: And I’m Casper Ter Kile. Vanessa: And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. Vanessa: This week, we have the honor of being joined by . She’s the host of Pottercast. She’s the inventor of Leaky Con, which Ariana and I are so excited to be going to this summer. She’s the author of “Harry: A History”. And probably most importantly, she was the correct answer to a Jeopardy question. Casper: Laughs. Vanessa: Melissa, you would say that’s the thing you’re taking to your grave, right? Melissa: I’m still holding out for the answer for the jeopardy question. I’ve been mentioned on Jeopardy, which is almost as good. Casper: Basically the same. Melissa: Basically the same. But yeah. Let me tell you literally nothing I have done in my life has made me seem famous to my family until I was mentioned on Jeopardy. Then, that’s it. There is no higher goal as far as they are concerned. Now I’m the coolest I will ever be. Vanessa: Stop trying. (Vanessa and Casper laugh) Vanessa: Melissa, thank you very much for joining us today. And we’re so excited to talk to you and your thoughts about Harry Potter, but first we’d love it if you could tell us a story on the theme of chance. Melissa: Sure. Mostly when I think of chance, I’m thinking of taking a chance. Of not so much chance occurring to me, but me or my staff or the group of people that I’ve locked into, locked into working with on the conventions and on everything that we do taking chances. So one of the biggest chances that I took that paid off in a big way was when the fifth Harry Potter book had just come out. It was 2003, and Liza M’Zimba who was the CBC announcer, he did most of the reporting of the CBC around Harry Potter. He was to the CBC around Harry Potter-- He was to the legit BBC-world what the Leaky Cauldron was to the fan world. And we were intouch a lot because I would confirm a story, or he would a story, or we would confer on whether we thought the latest crazy rumor was true or not. And they were doing a big book release at Royal Albert Hall to celebrate Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix coming out. And he said to me, “You should come”. And I was in my first job out of college. It was a terrible job. It was a hell job. It was the job that taught me how to not be boss. And he said to me, “You should come. You’ll meet J.K. Rowling.” And I started, you know, literally just laughing at him, “That’s … sure.” You know, nobody went out on assignment to cover Harry Potter story at that time. I paid for it out of my very, very meager salary. And then I was able to ask Scholastic, “Can I come and be press?” and they said, “Yeah, yeah sure. Just let us know when you’re there.” However, when I got there, they instead of putting me in the press penwhich is like a teeming hoard, they brought me over to the place where they had to put all the contest winners. So there I am standing with ten to twenty American kids with their giant blue Order of the Phoenix books. They were all waiting to meet J.K. Rowling and I’m thinking to myself. “OK, OK well maybe if I’m going to meet J.K. Rowling, I should just start getting ready for that.” Thinking that she would just sign my book and that would be that. But when she came up and it was very clear that she was going down the line meeting people. She came up to me and I said to myself, “Well, if I’m going to meet J.K. Rowling and embarrass myself in front of J.K. Rowling, let’s do this all the way.” And I put my hand over my book. And I looked up at her and I said, “Ms. Rowling, my name is Melissa, and I work on a site called The Leaky Caul—” and she said, “Wait, The Leaky Cauldron? I love The Leaky Cauldron!” And she lurched herself over the barrier to give me this huge hug as I was standing there very, very smugly waiting with a camera. It was a very cute moment. But the thing that that taught me about chance in that moment. Not that it was a cool moment, and I got to meet J.K. Rowling, and she knew what the site was, that’s all great. But that kind of validation for all the chances we were taking: doing the fan journalism we were doing, taking steps to be a community for fans which didn’t so much exist then the way it does now. All those things we knew were being supported now by the author. So when I took that chance to go to England, completely not believing it would end that way, it ended up fueling a lot of what Leaky, and Leaky Con, and Leaky Cauldron have done over the years. Casper: I love what you’re saying, because I see what you did in this exact moment of meeting Jo Rowling, to be what you’ve allowed and encouraged fans of the Harry Potter universe to do in being in conversation with one another. There’s an unabashed joy and enthusiasm and a willing to look a little silly now and then. And I think that’s what I love about fandom. There’s no cynicism, there’s no holding back about the fullness with which we want to engage in these conversations. There’s a willingness to dive in all the way. And I think that ws what your story has shown us, and that’s what your work has given us. So I want to thank you for that. Melissa: That makes me feel so incredible. In the middle of all this: In the middle of I’m just out of college and I just love this thing so much and I can’t stop. And now that it’s been nearly 20 years … it’s been 17 years or so since I started on this fandom. I’ve been reflecting on this a bit and what this has all been. And I actually just gave a TED talk on the value of not playing it cool, aAnd the importance of letting those little parts of yourself flare up where you can’t stop yourself from being a little silly, of being a little geeky. It’s not always appropriate, but if you never let those moments happen, if you never see what they’re saying about you, I think you can lose a lot of important and exciting things that you can find. Like I found myself in Harry Potter. I found what I wanted to do with my life. It’s really … Vanessa: What I love about the is that it is like this encouraging place of so much nodding. There’s just an earnestness and supportiveness. I mean like I think that we are very much the beneficiaries of in that like we have the most generous listeners in the world. I mean we’ll say something, like, not great, and they’ll be like, “I’m sure you had great intentions but—” And like teaching us with such a warm heart. There’s just such a generosity of spirit. Melissa: Isn’t it great? I’ve learned so unbelievably much through, I mean, everything over these years but especially Leaky Con. Leaky Con started in 2009 and has grown exponentially. And this audience is now self-feeding, right? I mean, whatever I was doing at that time was feeding off of the energy that the Harry Potter fandom brought, which was an unabashed need to be good, be good in the world, be nice to other people, and plead for tolerance and civility and equality. And all of those things are borne out of the real world. The HP Alliance is a great example, you know? Casper: Totally. Vanessa: So Melissa, tell us a little bit about Leaky Con. Ariana and I will be there in August, but this is going to be our first time there. Tell us and all of our listeners what is the thing that’s most awesome about Leaky Con. Melissa: Well, first of all, for those who don’t know, Leaky Con is a Harry Potter Convention. This year’s will be the biggest ever Harry Potter Convention. We can’t believe it sold out in a day. We don’t even know how that happened, but it’s going to be incredible. We started it in 2009 because we felt like the fandom really had something to say about how a Harry Potter festival should be run. And so some of the things that happened at Leaky Con, some of the big tentpole things: Obviously we bring some of the people who have worked on the films and some of the people who worked on the books out to talk about it and to offer their experience. WE also do the typical convention, you know, getting autographs and photographs and things like that. We also have , which we’ve had some pretty raucous concerts. AT one of them Ivana Lynch strapped on a bass guitar and played “Smells Like Harry Potter” with Harry and the Potters, and it was complete insanity – I can’t even – it was one of the best moments in Leaky Con history. We have skits and sketches; we have live podcasts; we have a marketplace where you can buy a ton of things; there’s quidditch; you can submit your own programming and do your own panel on why we sort too soon or whatever it is that’s on your mind. It is a festival about everything good that is in Harry Potter, and the Harry Potter community more specifically. It is sold out, so I feel really bad because it’s so awesome and you can’t be there. But if you want to to attend another one, we are going to be making announcements pretty soon about the next couple of ones are coming. And next year’s is going to be our tenth year doing it. Casper: Wow! Vanessa: Well, Melissa, thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast. And you were one of the early supporters of this project, and we’re just so grateful to you. And we really want to encourage everyone to go out and buy Melissa’s book, and it’s called “Harry: A History.” And oh, who wrote the foreword to that? Melissa: Ms. J.k. Rowling. Vanessa: Oh, J.K. Rowling. I’ve heard of her. She’s an up and coming young writer! Casper: (Crosstalk) I’ve heard of her! (laughing) Vanessa: That I think we should all support by buying Melissa’s book. Casper: Thanks again so much, Melissa, glad to have you. Melissa: Thank you guys. And what you’re doing is really, really cool. Casper: Vanessa, before we dig into that theme of Chance, let’s remind ourselves of what happened in this chapter with our 30-second recap. Vanessa: OK, I’m just going to count myself in. On my mark, get my set, Go! [clock begins] Vanessa: So … they are trying to make sense of what happened with Crouch, and they decide they want to talk to Moody, but they’re like, “We shouldn’t talk to Moody too early in the morning because he’ll probably just like kill us,” and they go up to the Owlery in the meantime to write a letter to Sirius, and they run into Fred and George and they overhear Fred and George talking about blackmailing someone and they’re like, “That’s probably not a good idea.” And they go and talk to Moody, and Moody is like, “I have the Marauder’s Map and I have no idea what happened; your guess is as good as mine.” Um, they , um keep talking about it, and they go up to Dumbledore’s office, and it’s like, “I hear Harry through the door!” [long buzzing sound] Vanessa: I just missed one or two small things. Casper: I love that the chapter’s actually called “The Dream”. [laughs] Vanessa: What are you talking about? Casper: Let me fill in the gaps; that’s how we do this. Vanessa: I just forgot The Thing that is the reason why Harry goes to Dumbledore’s office. Casper: You know what it is? It’s because you counted yourself in. Vanessa: [laughs] Women shouldn’t try to be independent. Lesson learned. ON Your mark, get set, go! [clock begins] Casper: [laughs] So Harry has a dream … Vanessa: [laughs] What? Casper: [laughs] … in the midst of Divonnation. It’s very warm, and there’s a little buzzing sound because there’s some sort of bug by the window, and he opens the window a little bit. And suddenly, his scar starts really hurting and he sees Voldemort, and Voldemort is like flying, and arrives, and is kind of like an owl, and, um, is screaming at Wormtail, and is like, “Oh, you’ve failed, but you don’t have to die because Harry Potter’s going to die and that’s all fine.” My favorite moment, I have to say, is when Moody says, “You can be an auror; you can be an auror,” except Ron.[laughs] [long buzzing sound] Vanessa: [laughs] It seems as though the British and American versions of these books are very different, because there’s no dream in my version of the chapter. Casper: [laughs] It’s just missing. Vanessa: [laughs] It’s just missing. He just goes up to Dumbledore’s office for no reason. So Casper, Melissa got us onto a great start with this theme of Chance. And one of the distinctions that I appreciated that she made was that there is chance as in luck and then there’s chance as in taking a risk, right? So luck and risk seem to be two different kinds of chance. And I think that a place where we see that is with Fred and George. So Fred and George took a big chance by betting that Bulgaria would get the Snitch but Ireland would win. Casper: And putting all their money on it. Vanessa: They put all of their money on it. And so that is chance in terms of a risk. And then they thought that that risk was going to have the payoff of being their Chance, of being their big opportunity to have enough money to invest in themselves. And what’s interesting to me is that the desperate acts that they feel compelled to take in order to, like, cash in on that chance. I think that at a certain point, I would sort of leave well enough alone and walk away, and say, “That is some cost. Shame on him for taking that bet and not being able to pay us back.” But they—I don’t know what it is—if there’s something so addicting about sort of the gambling aspect of it, of, like, taking the risk and expecting it to be this big opportunity—but they just can’t let it go. And they’re about to blackmail a high-ranking ministry official. Casper: And I feel like, you can even see in the dialogue between the two Weaseley twins, Fred and George going back and forth saying, “But that would be blackmail!” “Well how else are we going to do it?” So it’s like an internal monologue that’s externalized between the two of them, of how we sit with that kind of risk tolerance. But I do feel like the two chances that you point to are really interesting to put side by side. Because one of them is about, “OK, I’m investing this small bit and there might be a really big reward. But the loss is, OK, I lose the money; that’s the worst thing that can happen.” In this case, with blackmail, the reward might be very, very, big because I’m going to get paid the money I’m actually owed. But the loss is way, way more serious because they could go to jail.” And Hermione says this, this is not just breaking school rules; this could be way more serious. So I feel like, if you imagine like a tree of chance, the branches are pretty much the same, but the roots of what could happen badly are growing massively. And it-- it feels like that is a different kind of chance. Vanessa: Right. It is about, sort of, risk mitigation, right? I’ve done all sorts of weird things. Like, I’ve jumped out of an airplane, and I’ve … Casper: I didn’t know that! Vanessa: Oh yeah. I’ve gone skydiving; I’ve gone bungee-jumping. I’ve done all of that and they are things that don’t feel risky to me. I’m like, thousands of people do this all the time. “I’m at greater risk in the car driving there than I am actually jumping out of the airplane.” Casper: My hands are really clammy just thinking about it. Vanessa: Well, you’ve had a big fall in your life. So it’s interesting the things that feel chancy to us--like jumping out of an airplane--I’m wondering what that feeling is, right? Is it just novelty that makes jumping out of an airplane feel chancier—riskier—than driving to the drop-off point? Casper: Yeah. I’m thinking about how the twins are going from one risky behavior, like disrupting a classroom or doing something that breaks the rules in Hogworts, to doing this action which is way more serious in terms of, essentially, blackmailing a government official. And Hermione points that out, like, this is not the same thing. But I think that they’ve fallen into this trap of, like, “Oh, it’s testing the boundaries again,” or “We’re doing something on the sly, but it always works out.” And we kind of make that false equivalent of walking while texting, or driving while texting. “It’s not that much of a difference, right? It’s just three seconds, and I’m totally in control.” When the consequences of what they’re doing are incomparable. Vanessa: Yeah. And there’s something about taking chances where you build up your tolerance for it. Casper: Mmm-hmm. Vanessa: The first time I jumped into cold water, I was like, “What the heck am I doing?” And then you teach yourself, you’re like, “OH, you’ll get to it,” and worst-case scenario, your toes are cold for like an hour. And Fred and George have sort of taught themselves that, that, So what happens? Filch yells at you, and it’s fine. And Hermione’s like, “Nope, abort! This is not, like, true.” Right? It would be like, if I was like, “No, no no no no, I’ve gotten used to cold water. I’m going to—you know—swim across the Channel, and I don’t need a wet suit; I’m used to it.” It’s like--that is something, like, totally different. Casper: Totally. I think that scale of the impact is really important. And it’s easy to still make mistakes. Like, the trio’s really good at referring to Sirius as “snuffles” in conversation. There’s no awkwardness around that; they just say “Snuffles” straight out. But then when Sirius writes a letter, he signs it “Sirius”. And you’re like, “Dude, Come on! The scales are way more dangerous!” But if you’re practiced at just signing a letter “Sirius”—and this letter was probably written in haste—he’s forgotten that he needs a code name because he’s on his own in his cave chilling with Buckbeak. It’s so easy to slip back into those old behaviors that are no longer appropriate for the situation you are in. The other place to talk about chance, I think, is actually two weeks in a row, the word we are looking for as the theme actually appears in the text. And this time it’s Sirius in his letter writing to Harry saying, “Your name didn’t get into the Goblet of Fire by accident. If someone is trying to attack you, they’re on their last chance.” So I was thinking about how we think about what chance is. Because Sirius is framing this as, “It’s their last chance. Whoever’s trying to attack you has had all year, whoever they are. When in actual fact, according to Barty Crouch’s plans, it’s the first chance that he’s having, because it’s all about transporting Harry to Voldemort, it’s not about killing him on the Hogwort’s grounds. And it made me think about, you know, so often if we failed at something we think, “OH, it’s never going to work out, you know ... Vanessa: That was my big chance. Casper: … That was my big chance and I blew it. Or “They didn’t choose me”. Or “I’ve failed in some way”. When in actual fact, we have no idea what the long-term story is going to be. And I have so many moments where I look back in my life and think, “Thank goodness that happened.” You know? Like, I had my fall which gave me fear of heights. And I ended up at home for three months, and it meant that I got to spend way more time with my younger sister, who I had hardly lived with—she was 12 when I left home. And so there’s just entire different perspectives on--on experiences that we’ve had when we give it time. So just thinking about, we shouldn’t pass up chances as being “the last chance” too quickly. Vanessa: So I just hate the word Chance. Casper: [laughs] Vanessa: And it’s like maybe the opposite of what Melissa was saying, but, like, I think everything was chance and I think this is very much how I was raised. Casper: Hmmm. Vanessa: My grandfather got up one morning in Auschwitz, and everyone in his bunker was lined up, and they asked for a volunteer to go to the mail room, and my grandfather volunteered. And he says that he did it like, “This could killed me,” but it all felt so arbitrary to him. And he got back that night, and his whole bunker had been sent to the gas chambers. And this is why I exist, right? Because he like volunteered for the mail room. And I just think it’s all chance. Who you’re born to is chance, and at what stage in their life and how healthy they are, and their financial situation, and everything seems so arbitrary to me. Which is why I think storytelling is so important, because I think that what’s up to us is the stories that we tell ourselves about those different chances. But I just think everything is a chance. It seems the height of hubris to me to pretend to have any idea as to why things happen. Casper: I think you’re so right, Vanessa, about there’s so many things in our lives where you don’t—you just don’t have control or you don’t have authority or—or—the chance to create your circumstance. Absolutely. And I do think this is where the distinction that Melissa made is helpful, that there are moments where we can choose, we don’t know what’s going to happen. And your grandfather said, “I’m going to volunteer for the mail room.” Who knows what that might have meant? So maybe there’s—there’s a decision capacity without any sort of guarantee about what that means. But there are decisions that we get to make. Vanessa: Yeah, I just – I guess I feel like someone who has been humbled by so many positive chances, that I don’t really feel comfortable taking credit for much. [pause for Audible advertisement] Vanessa: So Casper, one of the things I see random things from when we’re young coming to fruition is that Voldemort went after Harry and not Neville, right? So Harry, because of this, has this connection to Voldemort through his scar. And that is completely by chance that he was born on this certain day, and that Voldemort, as I said, decided to go after him and not Neville for whatever reason. And Harry, because of that one chance thing, is having a specific dream on a specific day. I think that these are the conclusions in literature that we can make sense of, but that we cannot make sense of in our own lives. Casper: Hmmm. Vanessa: I think, I really admire Harry that he doesn’t resist the fact that it was this freak thing—this chance thing—that happened to him when he was young. He doesn’t push away from it. He seems to mostly accept it, that like, “This is the dream I had; I have to go talk to Dumbledore.” Casper: Yeah. I love that comparison between literature and our lives. And that, by its essence, literature is a storytelling mechanism. And our lives, it is much less easy to find those through-lines. And when we don’t find them or when we’re stuck, it’s a very debilitating experience. And so I feel like Harry is actually incredibly resilient into not falling into the Chosen One narrative. I like what you’re saying. He’s saying, “I’m just a guy. Granted, I’m great at Quidditch. But like I’m not going to buy into that story that the world is offering me. And even at this moment, Trelawney’s like, “Let me help you, let me make meaning of this experience in front of the whole classroom.” And he’s like, “No, I don’t want to engage with that. The key thing is that I think I know something about Voldemort’s state of being right now, and it has implications not only for me but for other people. My immediate task is to go and find Dumbledore.” He even sacrifices his own well-being, because he says he’s going to go to the Hospital Wing, and he doesn’t. Vanessa: Well, I also think that it is a great model for leadership, right? Casper: Hmmm. Vanessa: Because you want your leader to take responsibility for the authority that they have that other people don’t. You don’t want a leader who so profoundly is like, “I’m one of you,” that they don’t take charge and that they don’t take responsibility of the things that they are responsible for. You want a leader who says, “That the buck stops with me. And if we fail, it’s on me.” Casper: Right. Vanessa: But you also don’t want a leader with a full sense of authority who’s like, “I did all of this on my own; none of you even matter.” And Harry seems to be in that sweet spot. He seems to be saying, “It is completely random what is happening to me. I don’t have any special talents because of this connection with Voldemort. And, Oh, my God, now I have information because of this thing that makes me famous that I have to act on because the buck stops with me on that.” And he’s really modeling this middle way for us that I find really inspiring and grounding. Casper. Yeah. Do you know what it reminds me of? This is perhaps a really sad turn, but when tragedy strikes in our lives, one of the reactions that happens is “Why me?” And we’re looking for a story to tell ourselves to make sense of the diagnosis of the accident. But al on the flip side, “Why did I win the lottery?” or “Why was I selected in this audition?” or whatever it is. And it’s so easy to fall into a narrative about ourselves that is about our supremacy or that is about our inner brokenness. And I think that what I’m actually taking away from this conversation is that, “To stay in the place where we can say, “It’s just chance” is maybe the most healthy thing we can do with the best things and the worst things that happen to us. Vanessa: To say “It’s just chance, but what am I going to do with the new information?” Casper: Ooh, I love that. And that’s what Harry does here. Vanessa: Yeah, it’s just chance that I’m the one that had that dream. But I had that dream, so what am I going to do about it? [pause for music] Casper: It’s time for our spiritual practice, and we’re going to Lectio again. And so, four steps of reading. Vanessa, I’m going to choose a passage at random from “The Dream”. Here we go. Vanessa: Use the British version with the plot point about the dream. It sounds really juicy. Casper: “The gargoyle remained immovable.” Vanessa: Oooh-oooh-oooh! Casper: How about that? “The gargoyle remained immovable.” So, we’ll start with our first layer of reading, which is just to understand what’s happening in the narrative. Vanessa, where are we in the story? Vanessa: So, Harry has just had his dream in Trelawney’s classroom. And he says, “I’m going to see Madam Pomphrey.” And instead, he goes to Dumbledore’s office and has to say a password to get in there. And he tries the password from, like, years ago when he was there last. And the gargoyle is like, “Nope, that’s not the password, Harry.” Casper: I love that so much that the rest of the castle has paintings that offer the password, right? And there’s more, kind of, interaction, right? The Gryffindor common room, kind of, door—entry way—she has like conversations with you and she’ll tease you if you don’t know it. And this gargoyle in itself will never respond verbally. And there’s an extra layer of protection, somehow, I feel. Vanessa: Mmm-hmmm. Casper: I’m already moving onto Step 2. Vanessa: Well, why don’t you tell us what Step 2 is? Casper: [laughs] So Step 2 is to think allegorically about this sentence. So what are the images, what are the words, what are the stories? What things from our culture does this sentence remind us of? “The Gargoyle remained immovable.” I mean, the first thing that strikes me is just the word “gargoyle”. Vanessa: Mmm-hmm. Casper: It makes me think of the grand Gothic cathedrals. It paints a picture of what Hogworts is as a physical space. Gargoyles are, you know, often frightening images that are there to warn off evil spirits. And so, again, it adds that defensive layer to Dumbledore’s office. Vanessa: It’s also, I mean, it’s decorative. So it means that effort was made into creating a space with a certain culture or a certain look or a certain feeling. But I’m also really interested in the word “immovable”. And I was just reminded of my favorite musical, “The Unsinkable Molly Brown”. Casper: I don’t know that musical. Vanessa: You don’t know Unsinkable Molly Brown? Casper: No. Vanessa: Well, she’s a real historic person in the . And she was married to, like a gold mogul In Colorado. And, as a baby, she was put on the Colorado river to drown. And she didn’t drown. And so she was known as the “unsinkable Molly Brown”. For her entire life, she became this this fashion of nouveau riche Denver life. And then she was on the Titanic. Casper: [gasps] Vanessa: And she was one of the survivors of the titanic. Casper: [whispers] No! Vanessa: And she already had the reputation of being the “Unsinkable” Molly Brown. There’s a musical with Debbie Reynolds as Molly and it’s fantastic. But it’s only someone who has tried to be drowned that you would think of calling “unsinkable” right? I mean, this gargoyle’s immovable because it’s meant to be moved to let people in. So you only notice that something is “un” or “im” you know, whatever prefix is necessary, when the purpose is something else. Casper: I love that. That’s exactly where Harry finds himself, right? He’s trying to get this blooming gargoyle to open and he finds it immovable. Vanessa: But of course, it is movable, right? He moves it in just a few sentences. Casper: [laughs] Oooh, juicy. OK, let us go to stage 3, which is really starting to think about what does this sentence evoke from our own experience? OK, I’ll read it again: “The gargoyle remained immovable.” You know what I’m really stuck by? I’m really thinking about the future at the moment: Where I might want to settle down, and live, and all of those kind of questions. And this time, the word “remained” really struck me. I’m just thinking about what it really means to remain in a place. I’m just thinking about the teachers at Hogworts who remain, even when the headmasters change. That there are so many things in our external contexts that can change. And to remain is this—is actually a very generous thing. I don’t know. There’s something about commitment, and about solidity, and about investing in a place and believing, even that when it is imperfect, that it can become more than what it is. There’s something about remaining that’s really touching. And there are moments in my own life that I’ve stayed with a friendship that was going through a really rough period or that I’ve stayed with a project that wasn’t going well but then was able to turn around. Like there’s an extra sweetness that occurs to an eventual blossoming if you remain through a tough time. I mean, goodness! Getting through this winter in Boston, it feels like we’ve remained. [laughs] How about you, Vanessa? “The gargoyle remained immovable.” Vanessa: What it reminded me of in my life was one of my first swimming lessons, which was one of my first memories. I was like 3 or 4 years old. My swimming teacher’s name was Becky. And Miss Becky was known to be a really mean but great swimming instructor. And it was the first time that we were like kicking away from the wall and just going to sort of like be in the middle of the pool. And she said that if we waved our hand that would be communicating to her that we were in distress and she would grab us. And I freaked out halfway through the pool and so I like waved my hand. And she said to me, “You weren’t actually in danger; you were just scared that you were.” Casper: Hmmm. Vanessa: “You were testing me.” And I remember, I was so mad. She accused me of testing her to see if she would come when I called her. And I actually don’t’ think she was wrong. I think I was like, “Are you immovable? Are you someone who keeps your promises? Because if you are someone who keeps your promises, then I’ll learn how to swim in your pool. And if you’re not someone who keeps your promises, then I won’t feel safe to try things here.” And I think that we have to prove to each other we’re immovable. I think that Harry feels comfortable sharing secrets inside Dumbledore’s office because he knows that a gargoyle is standing between him and the outside world. I think that being steadfast is something that should be honored and needs to be proven. Casper: Mmm-hmm, yeah. And it makes it all the more meaningful in Book 6 when some of that goes away for Harry. Vanessa: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s exactly right. He feels so abandoned by Dumbledore later, and Dumbledore has been like this gargoyle. He’s been in a positive way this immovable presence. So when he moves himself, everything changes... Casper: … Everything changes. Vanessa: Yeah. Casper: So the final step is to think about what the text may be asking of us. Are we inspired to think of a new action, or a new commitment, or a different way of looking at the world because of the work that we’ve done with these four words? “The gargoyle remained immovable.” What I’m struck by is this sense of something from history staying with us over time. We touched on this a number of times. The gargoyle as a—in some way--a historic artifact, staying with us, remaining with us, and being an unmovable presence, a consistent something in our lives. And, I think we talk so much about innovation and disruption in this current climate around careers and work that we may be doing, and social change. But there are things that are worth holding onto. And so I’m thinking about, “what of tradition do I want to keep hold of?” You know, we do that a little bit with this podcast, keeping hold of some religious practices, like Lectio Divina itself. And I want to search a little harder:” what other traditions or practices have served people well, and what can I take with me? Vanessa: Casper, I feel called to, like spend a week by myself. Casper: [laughs] Immovable, remaining beyond the grasp of people. Vanessa: Yeah, I really do. I feel so tired right now, emotionally exhausted right now, that I feel immovable. And I think that, you know, in Dante’s Inferno, that all of the levels of Hell have in common is that when you go to Hell, you are immovable. It is the greatest punishment that you can offer to someone that you can no longer move through the world. And I feel immovable right now, like I am at capacity and I have to go away to, like, unstick myself. Casper: Hmmm. This week’s voicemail is from Ji Kweon. [beep] Ji Kweon: HI, Casper, Vanessa, and Ariana. My name is Ji, and I’m from Australia. And I’ve been listening to “Harry Potter and the Sacred Text” for a long time. I’ve been reading Harry Potter for an even longer time. My mother bought me the first book when I was 5, and I’m now 22. Reading through “The Goblet of Fire” with the podcast has made me remember that this book really marks the death of childhood for Harry. Or at least it’s the start of his inevitable transition from childhood to adulthood. I’m in a weird transitional phase of life too. I’m waiting to get on a plane to Berlin to start a new life. And it’s all very scary and exciting. I am very lucky and privileged to go of course, but I think we don’t talk enough about the grief of losing our childhood. My hometown is very Privette Drive-esque, but I’ll still miss it when I’m away and I know I’ll be homesick. The last of our family dogs died a couple of weeks ago, and we first took her home when I was 7. So for the first time in living memory, I have to figure out how to live my life without my puppy. Harry goes through a lot of these transitions, at least in the first few books. He loses Hogworts as a home, He loses a lot of father figures and mentors, he loses his own childhood pet. And although at the end of the series Harry is a better person and the world is a better place, I really feel like the books really take the time to process the grief and loss that is inevitably a part of growing up. I feel less pressure to constantly and ostentatiously demonstrate my excitement and gratitude and to spend some time processing the loss and grief of change. So I’d just like to bless everyone who is going through their own [next several words unclear/German]] narrative. I do hope that they do have the courage to process the grief and loss as well as the excitement and joy of growing up. Aufwiederhoren. ​ ​ Casper: Ji, I love that you’re throwing some German, here. “Aufwiederhoren”? “Bilding ​ ​ ​ schomann?” This is fabulous! And I absolutely love that you’re giving yourself that time and ​ space. And I think it’s so easy to get wrapped up in the busyness of every day. And just this morning I sat for twenty minutes just on my meditation cushion And the last couple of days I’ve been like doing two minutes and five minutes, and just making time to sit for twenty, I’ve noticed the difference all day. Thank you so much. Vanessa: And also, I’m so sorry about your dog. Casper, we now have the chance to each offer a blessing to a character. I’m going to offer a blessing to Trelawney who likes to keep her classroom warm. AS someone who is often cold and often just heats people out of places, I would like to say that I think that furniture is designed for men, offices are often air conditioned for men, and I am tired of things being too big and too cold for me, and good for you! A blessing to cold, short, women everywhere, and the patriarchy one degree at a time. Casper, who would you like to bless? Casper: My blessing is for Harry. We’ve seen him endure these more and more intense experiences when he’s sleeping or when he’s suddenly struck with one of these visions or dreams more and more frequently as the books develop. And at first it was like an overwhelming, debilitating experience that he had no idea how to respond to, how to tell people. And I think we’re seeing Harry learning to engage in his experience more and more skillfully. And, you know, that might happen to us in a recurring injury or it might happen to us with a sudden overwhelming feeling of sadness. And so for anyone who’s kind of managing those moments of just sudden, unexpected pain or trauma or sadness and is able to slowly but surely find some way to respond to them, I just find that extraordinary. Like, I would just be crying on the floor. I don’t know how he does it. So, a blessing for Harry. [begin outro music] Casper: You’ve been listening to “Harry Potter and the Sacred Text”. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook or leave us a review on iTunes. Or, send us a 2-minute voicemail to [email protected]. Next week, we’ll be reading Chapter 30, “The Pensieve” through the theme of Comfort. This episode was produced by Ariana Neddleman, by me Casper Ter Kuile, and the fabulous Vanessa Zoltan. Our music is by Ivan Pyzow and Nick Bohl and we are part of the Panoply network, where you can find ours and other great shows on panoply.fm. Vanessa: This week we would like to offer a special thanks to Melissa Anelli. We would like to thank Ji Kweon for her wonderful voicemail, Rebecca and Charlie Ledley, Julia Argy, and Stephanie Paulsell. Thank you so much, and we’ll talk to you next week. Casper: Bye, everyone.