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LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 1 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 13 November 1996 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D. (CANTAB), J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE EDWARD LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP 2 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA, M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM THE HONOURABLE CHAN WING-CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 3 THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHENG MING-FUN THE HONOURABLE CHENG YIU-TONG DR THE HONOURABLE ANTHONY CHEUNG BING-LEUNG THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HON-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE CHOY KAN-PUI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHU YU-LIN THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LAU HON-CHUEN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHEUNG-KWOK THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG THE HONOURABLE LEE KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE BRUCE LIU SING-LEE THE HONOURABLE LO SUK-CHING THE HONOURABLE MOK YING-FAN THE HONOURABLE NGAN KAM-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI 4 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 THE HONOURABLE TSANG KIN-SHING DR THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSE WING-LING THE HONOURABLE MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE LAWRENCE YUM SIN-LING PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, O.B.E., J.P. FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. ATTORNEY GENERAL MR CHAU TAK-HAY, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR BROADCASTING, CULTURE AND SPORT LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 5 MR NICHOLAS NG WING-FUI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE MR JOSEPH WONG WING-PING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER MR BOWEN LEUNG PO-WING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS MR KWONG KI-CHI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY MR STEPHEN IP SHU-KWAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES MR KWONG HON-SANG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR WORKS MR TAM WING-PONG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, SECRETARY GENERAL MR LAW KAM-SANG, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MISS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 6 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Merchant Shipping (Prevention and Control of Pollution) (Charges for Discharge of Polluting Waste) (Amendment) Regulation 1996 ............................ 465/96 Builders' Lifts and Tower Working Platforms (Safety) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1996 ......... 468/96 Employees' Compensation (Amendment) Regulation 1996 ............................................................ 469/96 Shipping and Port Control Regulations (Amendment of Fifth Schedule) Notice 1996 ........................... 470/96 Specification of Public Office ..................................... 471/96 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Affiliation Proceedings Ordinance) Order ............. (C) 111/96 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Occupiers Liability Ordinance) Order .................. (C) 112/96 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (British Nationality Act 1981 (Consequential Amendments) Ordinance) Order .......................... (C) 113/96 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (British Nationality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Ordinance) Order ............................. (C) 114/96 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 7 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Undesirable Medical Advertisements Ordinance) Order ......................................... (C) 115/96 Sessional Papers 1996-97 No. 32 ─ The Audited Statement of Assets and Liabilities and Statement of Receipts and Payments of the Urban Council for the year ended 31 March 1996 No. 33 ─ Urban Council Annual Report 1995-96 No. 34 ─ Revisions to the 1996-97 Estimates approved by the Urban Council during the second quarter of the 1996-97 financial year ANNOUNCEMENT PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): At the last sitting of this Council, I announced the result of the division on the amendment moved by Mr CHEUNG Hon-chung to Mr SIN Chung-kai's motion on "Strengthening the Supervision of Statutory Public Organizations". The result was: 31 votes for the "ayes" and 21 votes for the "noes". Mr CHEUNG's amendment was agreed to and I declared forthwith that Mr SIN's motion as amended by Mr CHEUNG had been agreed to by this Council. Two Members then raised questions on my declaration. After the sitting, another Member wrote to me and questioned my declaration. The questions raised by the three Members really concern one point, that is, by not putting the question on Mr SIN's motion as amended by Mr CHEUNG to the Council, I was depriving Members of the opportunity to vote either in favour of or against Mr SIN's motion as amended by Mr CHEUNG, or to abstain. 8 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 Members will recall that, before the debate started, I had announced the proper procedure for handling an amendment which involved leaving out all the effective words of a motion. I said that Mr CHEUNG's amendment to Mr SIN's motion involved leaving out all the effective words of Mr SIN's motion and it was virtually an alternative proposition to substitute for Mr SIN's motion. Therefore, if Members voted in favour of Mr CHEUNG's amendment later at the sitting, it would mean that the Council accepted Mr CHEUNG's amended version to substitute for the original motion. The Council having taken a decision on this motion, the question on the motion as amended would not therefore be put, as to do so would be tantamount to proposing a question in the same terms as the one which the Council had just considered and agreed to. This procedure is based on Standing Orders 23A and 31(3). Standing Order 23A stipulates that: "Where the Council has taken a decision on a specific question no further motion shall be moved in relation to that question during the current session except a substantive motion to rescind the decision, moved with the permission of the President." Standing Order 31(3) stipulates that: "It shall be out of order to attempt to reconsider a specific question on which the Council has taken a decision during the current session, except in debate on a substantive motion to rescind that decision moved with the permission of the President." As Standing Orders prohibit the reconsideration of a question on which a decision has been taken, and as this Council has already agreed that Mr SIN's motion be replaced by Mr CHEUNG's alternative proposition in the form of an amendment, no further vote could be taken on the motion as amended which was exactly the same as the alternative proposition by Mr CHEUNG. Therefore, the question of Members expressing again, at that stage, a preference either for or against the motion as amended did not arise; neither did the question of abstention. I hope this announcement clarifies the position for Members. MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): I wish to seek clarification on one point. As far as voting is concerned and in terms of definition, is a motion as amended the same as a motion to amend? The two may be different in terms LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 13 November 1996 9 of status and legal consideration. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): What is to be voted upon is a question. If the Council has taken a decision on a specific question, it shall not reconsider the question. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Athletes Fund 1. MR ANDREW CHENG asked (in Cantonese): The Government has recently announced the setting up of the Athletes Fund (the Fund) and pledged to match community donations to the Fund on a dollar-for-dollar basis (with the Government's commitment being capped at $8 million) until the size of the Fund reaches $16 million. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council: (a) of the latest progress of the Fund; (b) whether, in the event of public donations to the Fund falling short of the expected $8 million, the Government will consider injecting more money into the Fund so as to ensure that the size of the Fund reaches the target of $16 million; and (c) whether the Government will draw up any guidelines on the operation of the Fund such that individual athletes or sports organizations can apply to the Fund on an equal footing? SECRETARY FOR BROADCASTING, CULTURE AND SPORTS (in Cantonese): Mr President, public donations to the Hong Kong Athletes Fund at present amounts to $4.08 million.