OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 31

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 31 January 2018

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OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 31 January 2018
The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. 6062

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG

DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN
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THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN 6064

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO

MEMBERS ABSENT:

PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., M.H., J.P. FINANCIAL SECRETARY

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THE HONOURABLE MS TERESA CHENG YEUK-WAH, G.B.S., S.C., J.P. SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

MR TSE CHIN-WAN, B.B.S., J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, AND SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY

THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY

THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE PATRICK NIP TAK-KUEN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS 6066

CLERK IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE TO ATTEND THIS MEETING UNDER RULE 8 OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS.

THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE'S QUESTION TIME

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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members please remain standing while the Chief Executive enters the Chamber.

(A number of Members repeatedly shouted slogans: "Oppose unreasonable 'DQ'; Shame on political persecution")

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please keep quiet. (A number of Members continued to shout slogans when the Chief Executive entered the Chamber and walked towards the rostrum)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive's Question Time. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members who wish to ask questions please press the "Request to speak" button. This is the first Chief Executive's Question Time. Each Member will be given three minutes to put questions to and receive replies from the Chief Executive, and the question time of each Member should not exceed 1.5 minutes. When three minutes are up, the bell will ring as a reminder. In order to allow more Members to put questions, the Question Time should be conducted in a "short question, short answer" format.

MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): President, Chief Executive, welcome to the Legislative Council to answer our questions. In fact, many elderly people have said that the rate of increase of the Old Age Allowance (commonly known as "fruit grant") is meagre this year. Many elderly people are glad to see that the Treasury has been "overflowing with cash" recently and they hope that there can be a greater increase in the "fruit grant" in future. But some elderly people aged 65 said that they cannot receive the "fruit grant" because they are required to take a means test. They said that it hurts their feelings when they have to be subject to such thorough and detailed inquiry even on their retirement at the age of 65. May I ask the Chief Executive if it is possible to lower the age eligible for the non-means-tested "fruit grant" from 70 at present to 65 given that the Government is in such a robust financial position.

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thank Mr CHAN Han-pan for his question. Like Members, I am very much concerned about the well-being of the elderly in Hong Kong and this is why we have, over the past few years, substantially increased the provision of care for the elderly. For instance, in respect of social security, we have introduced the Old Age Living Allowance ("OALA") and we will implement the enhancement of OALA at a later time this year; and in respect of services, there is also enhancement in health care services and even nursing care services. However, as I said in the beginning of the part on the people's livelihood in the Policy Address, while we appreciate that there are many aspirations in society, this is not merely a matter of supply and demand but also an issue of resource allocation because after all, public resources are not without limits. Of course, just as Mr CHAN Han-pan said just now, what is before our eyes now is that the Treasury seems to be "overflowing with cash" but to the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR"), we have to look at whether public finance can ensure the sustainability of various schemes. Therefore, in respect of cash allowances for the elderly, we have adopted a multi-tiered approach in providing assistance to the elderly, and we will also relax the asset test on elderly recipients of the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance. We hope that through OALA and the enhancement of OALA, the elderly will live more at ease upon retirement. As regards the "overflowing" Treasury, Members have to be more patient while waiting for the release of the Budget by the Financial Secretary next month and see what relief measures will be announced.

MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, elderly people aged 65 will have some savings anyway but this has prevented them from receiving any welfare benefit. While they may apply for OALA, they nevertheless have to take the means test. Therefore, I hope that the Chief Executive can consider lowering the age eligible for the non-means-tested "fruit grant" from 70 at present to 65 in order to help the elderly.

MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Executive stated in public yesterday that the disqualification of a person from candidacy in the Legislative Council by-election has nothing to do with politics. I wonder if the Chief Executive has read the reasons stated by the Returning Officer. The political affiliation of the candidate is mentioned in seven of the 11 paragraphs and in particular, it is mentioned in paragraph 9 that as the candidate's political

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affiliation (Demosistō) has clearly shown that the candidate does not uphold the

Basic Law sincerely and in good faith and so, it is said in paragraph 11 that she is disqualified from running in the election.

I would like to ask the Chief Executive if she has read this document. If she has not, why did she blindly make a defence for this case? If she has, did she purposely mislead the public in making an unreasonable defence?

Besides, in the fourth and eighth paragraphs it is said clearly that this

candidate is disqualified because Demosistō advocates "democratic

self-determination" and as the candidate advocates and supports this belief, it is, therefore, confirmed that she does not uphold the Basic Law and does not bear allegiance to the SAR Government.

I have this question for the Chief Executive. Will a person be disqualified on the ground of his political affiliation in future? For example, as the Hong Kong Alliance in Support of Patriotic Democratic Movements in China ("the Alliance"), to which I am affiliated, opposes one-party dictatorship and advocates the building of a democratic China, will people participating in the Alliance be disqualified from running in elections because the Chief Executive has moved the goalposts?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, your question time is up. Please let the Chief Executive give a reply.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): The decision on whether a person is qualified for candidacy in an election does not rest with me, since Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung was asking what I would do in this circumstance. The decision does not rest with me. It is legally a decision made by the Returning Officer.

I have looked at the case as referred to by Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung just now.
Insofar as the details are concerned, the Returning Officer stated at the time that having considered all issues and legal advice, she did not accept that the candidate has made a declaration that meets the requirement under section 40(1)(b)(i) of the Legislative Council Ordinance, which is not about political affiliation but requires a candidate to uphold the Basic Law and pledge allegiance to SAR. Therefore, insofar as this case is concerned, in the response 6070

that I made whether at the airport on my return to Hong Kong from Switzerland or yesterday, I said that it is not merely a question of political affiliation, and Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung can refer to the transcript of my remarks again. I said that we do not decide on an individual's qualification for candidacy solely from his or her personal political affiliation, and Mr LEUNG, for instance, also has a certain political affiliation. But if an individual's political affiliation does not meet the requirement mentioned by me just now and makes it impossible for the Returning Officer to be satisfied that the person upholds the Basic Law and pledges allegiance to SAR sincerely and in good faith, then the person will be disqualified from candidacy in accordance with the law.

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, e-sports has developed rapidly in Hong Kong in recent years. It is not as simple as playing video games as in the view of people in general. It actually embodies a diversity of elements, such as requirements on the e-sports players in terms of their physical conditions, skills, team organization, etc. E-sports has been formally incorporated into the sports industry in the Mainland and Taiwan. May I ask the Chief Executive how e-sports will be positioned this year and whether e-sports will be incorporated as a kind of sports.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Thank you, Ms YUNG. E-sports is new to me and so, I specially visited the place where the E-sports Festival was held last year to learn and find out more about e-sports. I originally thought that it is no more than playing video games but then I realized that it is actually not easy at all, and I would say that it is very sophisticated. On the question of whether e-sports can be developed into an industry or incorporated as a kind of sports direct, my colleagues and I would be glad to look into it.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms YUNG Hoi-yan indicated that she did not wish to ask a supplementary question. Mr Alvin YEUNG, you can ask your question.

MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, regarding this incident of a candidate being disqualified from running in the by-election on 11 March, the Government has been saying that it is an independent decision made by the Returning Officer.

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Can I ask the Chief Executive if she can tell all the people of Hong Kong that she, being the Chief Executive, had not in the least taken part in the decision of the Returning Officer on the disqualification of this candidate?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): First of all, under the law, the Returning Officers have the power to decide whether a person is qualified for candidacy. Despite that this is clearly stated in law, it is still necessary to clearly examine the facts and therefore, the Returning Officers also have to consider the facts clearly. A Returning Officer who has doubts after considering the legal provisions and clearly examining the facts will seek legal advice. In this connection, the Department of Justice plays the role of providing legal advice for reference by the Returning Officer.

Regarding this specific case concerning that person being disqualified from candidacy under discussion now, I was not in Hong Kong when the decision was made. I was not in Hong Kong for the whole week as I was attending the World Economic Forum in Switzerland. So, I can tell Members that since there are clear provisions in law and the facts have provided a clear basis, it seems that involvement of other people (especially myself) was unnecessary.

Having said that, I can tell Members that I, being the Chief Executive, will not reject requests for my opinion on any issue. For example, when I was a Director of Bureau or the Chief Secretary for Administration, sometimes I would have to seek advice from the Secretary for Justice, and if I have views on the legal advice sought, I would express them. But disregarding what the legal advice was, the decision on a person's qualification for candidacy ultimately rests with the Returning Officers.

MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, actually I need only a simple answer from the Chief Executive to all the people of Hong Kong. With regard to the disqualification of any person from candidacy in this election, did the Chief Executive personally take part in any discussion or the making of decisions? President, my question is just this simple.

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I thought I had given an answer to Mr YEUNG. So far, only one person was confirmed to be disqualified from running in the election. In the process of determination of the qualification of this person for candidacy and announcement of the decision, I was not in Hong Kong and did not play any part in it.

MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, did the Chief Executive mean that in the disqualification of any person from candidacy, the Chief Executive had stayed aloof throughout the process? Does the Chief Executive agree to this remark?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I do not know what it means by "staying aloof". As I am the Chief Executive of SAR, there seems to be nothing from which I can stay aloof. However, I will definitely act in accordance with the law, and with regard to issues on which the Chief Executive has no decision-making power, I will not intervene in those decisions.

MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, when you assumed office you categorically vowed to abolish the offsetting mechanism of the Mandatory Provident Fund ("MPF") System for the wage earners, in order to enhance retirement protection for the public but you have yet put forward a definite proposal so far. May I ask the Chief Executive when the Government will put forward a proposal, so that the people can connect with you with hope and happiness and share the fruits of economic development?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Mr HO or Members representing the labour sector can rest assured. My position on the abolition of the MPF offsetting mechanism has all along been firm. In other words, it is necessary to abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism in order for the retirees to be protected by comparatively sound and proper arrangements for retirement. We did put forward a definite proposal before but regrettably it was not accepted by Members. Therefore, we are still working hard on it, hoping to put forward a proposal acceptable to Members. I can promise Mr HO that the Secretary for Labour and Welfare and I will work very hard for it in the hope that we can

6073 explain to the community as soon as possible the details of a proposal with enhanced government involvement or with the Government "stepping in", so to speak, for abolishing the MPF offsetting arrangement.

MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): President, Chief Executive, a government official already replied last year that a proposal would be put forward at the end of 2017, but it is already 2018 now and the Lunar New Year is just around the corner. When will the new proposal be made available? Does the Government have a timetable, so that all the wage earners in Hong Kong can have hope and know when the offsetting mechanism will be truly abolished?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Mr HO, considering what happened to the previous proposal, we hope to put forward a proposal after it has gained the broad consent and support by employers and employees. Otherwise, even if we put forward a proposal again, it could be overturned and everything would have to start all over again. So, please give us a little more time. We are working hard on it.

MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): Can the Chief Executive give us a timetable, so that the public can have some idea about the time of its abolition, rather than saying all the time that this would be done as soon as possible? I think the public do not consider such an answer satisfactory.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I think doing it as soon as possible, which includes carrying out work expeditiously under the supervision of the Chief Executive, is already the best timetable. As far as I understand it, the abolition of the MPF offsetting mechanism involves some legislative amendments which are very complicated. We will strive to bring it to fruition as soon as possible and we hope to complete this task within my term, which means that we have some four years. In other words, this is more than just putting forward a proposal and seeking Members' consent for it, because we also have to complete the entire legislative amendment exercise. 6074

MR SHIU KA-CHUN (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, as busy people tend to have short memories, you probably do not recall what happened around this time last year. On this day of last year, the Education Bureau reinstated TSA (Territory-wide System Assessment) in the name of BCA (Basic Competency Assessment), triggering a boycott of TSA-related homework and even the test itself by parents' groups and education organizations.

Chief Executive, in your manifesto you clearly said that you would suspend the Primary Three TSA before the comprehensive review is completed. The Education Bureau also stated that the results would be made available in December last year. Today is 31 January and yet, no results have been presented. May I ask you if you will state clearly to us today whether the Primary Three TSA will be suspended across the board? Please give us a straightforward answer. If you have the guts to do it, you should have the guts to admit it.