INTERVIEW

BRINGING MATH TO THE PUBLIC FRONTLINE Interview with Nuno Crato, winner of the 2003 ‘Raising Public Awareness of Mathematics’ article competition of the EMS, conducted by José Francisco Rodrigues (, )

Nuno Crato is a mathematician and a well-known science writer in his native Portugal. He is frequently present in pub- lic discussions related to research, educa- tion, and science popularization. He regu- larly writes for the press and often N. Crato (left) and J.F. Rodrigues (right) appears in radio and television programs. read an article in, say, Science, or Annals er. If he or she is hooked with the first sen- He was recently elected President of the of Statistics, or even Scientific American, tences, there is a chance the article will be Portuguese Mathematical Society (SPM), faster than most interested readers without read. If not… and took charge this September. a scientific background. As I read journals Last year, he won the First Prize of the and magazines very often, just out of my So you try to bring people into science EMS competition Raising Public simple curiosity, I very often indeed come using ordinary subjects as a pretext. Do Awareness (RPA) on Mathematics. The across simple ideas on topics. Then I think you consider this work as science popu- last EMS Newsletter, issue 52, reproduced “I’d like to explain this to someone”. It’s a larization or science vulgarization? part of the three-article series on cryptog- natural thing for a teacher. Unfortunately, Maybe it’s both. But I can’t give general raphy he submitted to the competition. I can’t go to class and say “today, instead rules. Sometimes it works the way I English and Portuguese versions of these of power series, let me explain you how described. Sometimes it is different. Some articles are now available online at these guys from Scotland are assessing the people explain mathematics and science in http://pascal.iseg.utl.pt/~ncrato/EMS. Hun- number of stars in our galaxy using a a straight forward manner; other people garian and Italian versions will soon be novel simulation algorithm”… use pretexts, as I usually try to do; other available as well. people write only chronicles, that is, com- Chaired by Vagn Lundsgaard Hansen Then, you decide to write an article on mentaries on the public scene that are and formed by eight mathematicians from it… made from a special point of view (in our an equal number of countries, the RPA More or less... But I have to do some case, science or math). Everything is use- committee selected Crato’s articles among research on the topic, think about the way ful, when it is done seriously and serves to 26 proposals from 14 different countries. to explain it, restrain myself to a limited expand people awareness of science, I José Francisco Rodrigues, who has been space, and wait for the right moment… think. collaborating with the EMS since its foun- dation (at which he represented the Couldn’t you write immediately? Why do you think popularization of Portuguese Mathematical Society), con- Not usually. It seems to be better to wait mathematics is useful? Some people say ducted the conversation that follows. for a moment when the topic gains actual- it is useless, since the public cannot be ity and becomes interesting for the large educated with light articles that only Let me first congratulate you, Nuno, on public. For example, going back to the scratch the surface of things. the well-deserved prize. I have been articles on the competition, I have been I’m sorry: I completely disagree with this reading your articles in the Portuguese seduced by the marvels of modern cryp- idea. We can’t confuse formal education press and one thing that surprises me is tography for a while. I have read David with journalism, and science writing is the way you chose the topics. They are Kahn’s and Simon Singh’s books and a akin to journalism. Popularization of very diverse and very often are not number of expository papers and articles. mathematics brings our discipline to pub- related to your research. Is this true? But I waited. Suddenly, there was a public lic attention. That’s it! If some people are Thanks, José Francisco. My research is in debate in Portugal on the use of credit enticed by an article and read further, Stochastic Processes and applications, cards and electronic purchasing. Some that’s fantastic. But if most people only mainly now on long-memory time series, a banks even created a special debit card read it and get a general idea, that’s also kind of generalization of fractal Brownian that could be used as a credit card, but only fine. I have nothing against it. motion. This is necessarily a restricted for electronic transactions. They were try- Now, a completely different problem is area and only once I wrote about it to the ing to dispel the fears on the public. It was the rigor we put in the writing. We can’t general public. But I am usually interested the ideal moment to talk about cryptogra- say mistakes and we are always treading in many other subjects, as you are and as phy. If you read my first article, you will dangerous grounds. We have to write everybody who likes mathematics and sci- notice it starts precisely discussing these things in such a way people are not bored ence usually is. What I find is that I can fears. I wrote it this way to entice the read- and, at the same time, avoid making 22 EMS September 2004 INTERVIEW errors. How do we do it? I can’t give gen- this benefit? nalists have a basic scientific background eral rules. We just have to be careful and It’s always difficult to do ratings, but this and the professionalism necessary to do imaginative. benefit is certainly important. I would add science popularization well. Ideally, we Let me just give an example. If you are a couple of others, putting in first place the would have plenty of good science jour- talking about something that grows fast, appreciation of the essential ethic of math nalists. But we do not have so. And it is you can’t say: “it’s an exponential and science: the intellectual honesty, the also refreshing that different worlds and growth”, unless it really is. A politician, critical rationalism, the respect for the different people communicate and, occa- though, could say it, since “exponential reality, the international cooperation, the sionally and for a while, even trade places. growth” is now a common phrase. But if effort to avoid prejudices. you are a mathematician or a scientist— In general, I would say mathematics and people read you in a different way. If you science are an essential part of our culture don’t want to go into details and explain and they deserve to be on the forefront of the difference between polynomial and public life. This is important for the sup- exponential growth, you can just say: “it is port of our efforts. And, more importantly, a fast growth”. for the creation of a general culture that respects mathematics and science and tries Let me insist: do you think it is possible to educate the citizens accordingly. to popularize mathematics and science without vulgarizing it? You have recently been elected Many mathematicians and scientists are President of SPM—Sociedade afraid of vulgarization, I know, because Portuguesa de Matemática. Do you they identify it with oversimplification. I think our societies should give more don’t like to discuss words, but I have attention to scientific popularization? Illustration from the prize-winning articles nothing against simplification, that’s what I can’t speak in general. I believe scientif- we are always doing in life. I condemn ic societies should promote research, edu- What do you mean? errors and try to avoid mistakes, which is cation, and popularization. All these goals Think about research and teaching: people another question. are important, but not all societies can pro- who do research can bring to teaching an mote them equally. insider’s view and an insight on math problems that other people usually can’t. … as we all should? The same way, professional mathemati- I believe scientific organizations should cians can bring to math popularization a not forget their role in society, which rigor and a point of view no good journal- includes popularization of science. But ist can. So, I believe it’s useful for science this is a goal for organizations, not for journalism that some of us, once a while, individuals. I think it would be a terrible practice science popularization. The more mistake to try to involve everybody in people talk about math and sciences on the popularization. Some people may like to newspapers and the better they do it, the do it and may have some aptitude for it. better math and science are appreciated by Other people not. The basic thing is society. And the better society appreciates research. Teaching comes next. science, the better education is. Then, Popularization is at the end of the list. more resources and more people come to mathematics and sciences. And this is Illustration from the prize-winning articles Isn’t it possible to do all three? good for everybody. It’s very difficult, and one activity always But don’t you think that, simplifying harms the other. Very few people are like José Francisco Rodrigues [rodrigue matters, the popularization of science Ian Stewart, who apparently can write a @ptmat.fc.ul.pt] is professor of favors a wrong idea about scientists great book a year, a research paper a Mathematics at the Faculty of Science of work? month, and still be a dedicated teacher. For the , where he direct- It may and may not. It all depends on the most of us, to do science writing necessar- ed the Centro de Matemática e Aplicações way things are done. You can say “on a ily harms research and teaching. It’s true Fundamentais for several years until dark night, he suddenly had the idea…” or that these activities are also complemen- 2002. His research interests are in the you can say “after many discussions and tary. Sometimes, research helps us with field of nonlinear PDEs and their applica- many days thinking about the problem, he ideas for writing to the public, and teach- tions, in particular, in free boundary prob- came to the idea…” My impression, ing can give us ideas on ways to explain lems. He is currently collaborating with though, is that the public has already a ter- things. But I never noticed a good research the Centro de Matemática of the ribly wrong idea about the way science idea coming out a good effort on popular- University of Coimbra, also in Portugal. works. Everything you can do to clarify ization. He co-organized the 1999 Diderot things is positive. Mathematical Forum on “Mathematics So you think popularization should be and Music” and is a member of the EMS You didn’t talk yet about one often cited left to journalists? Raising Public Awareness of Mathematics benefit of mathematics popularization, Popularization should be done by people Committee. He is a main editor of which is the appreciation of mathemat- who know what they are talking about and “Interface and Free Boundaries”, an EMS ics by the public. How would you rate who know how to talk about it. Some jour- journal. EMS September 2004 23