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Home , Abel (DC Comics), Alan Moore, Alec Holland, Alfredo Alcala, Bernie Wrightson, Brimstone (DC Comics)

#6 presents

Muck-Monsters and Their Makers!

Interviews with: Stephen R. Bissette & C REATURE FEATURES! TM & © DC . Used with permission.

Cover art & color by Cho Table of Contents Introduction: Love, Envy, and Bayou Beasts...... 8 Born of the Bayou: What Is—and What Isn’t—a Swampman...... 10 Sturgeon’s Monster: It All Began With “It”...... 12

SWAMPMEN The : From Monster to Villain to Hero at Hillman Comics...... 18 Between That Heap and Those Things: ’50s Swamp Monsters.....24 Silver & Boggy Bronze: ’70s Muckman Chronology...... 26 Marvin, the Dead-Thing: Mr. Kanfer’s Short Life-After-Death*...... 37 The : Hillman’s Heap Done Marvel-style...... 38 Return of the Heap: Skywald’s Grotesque Revisioning...... 40 Man-Thing: The Savage Beginnings of the Marvel Monster...... 44 Swamp Thing: The Tragic Creature’s Roots...... 52 Bog : A Tar-Monster Rises at Atlas/Seaboard...... 60 Lurker in the Swamp: Gold ’s Swamp Dweller...... 62 “It” by *...... 64

THE MUCK-MONSTER MAKERS Swamp Thing: Len Wein...... 74 Bernie Wrightson...... 90 The Man-Thing: Steve Gerber...... 112 Val Mayerik...... 124 Mike Ploog...... 126 Jim Mooney...... 130 The Swamp God: Alan Moore...... 132 Steve Bissette...... 150 Rick Veitch...... 162 John Totleben...... 174 Swampmen Contributors...... 183 Creator’s Creators: Ronn Sutton...... 190 Coming Attractions: Bernie Wrightson headlines CBC #7...... 190 A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words...... 191 One Last Thing: The Thing of It Is…...... 192

*Alas, we had hoped to feature the “It” immediately following the essay on Mr. Sturgeon’s tale, but printing expenses prohibit the inclusion of a b-&-w signature amidst the color section, thus poor ol’ Marv had to shoehorned where he doesn’t fit chronologically. Instead “It” appears at of the color pages, where Marvin is supposed to be, on pg. 64. Oh, well…!

THIS SPREAD: Previous page image is pulp illustration master Edd Cartier’s macabre drawing of Theodore Sturgeon’s “It,” with Kimbo the hunting dog meeting his grim demise. From Unknown [Aug. 1940], courtesy of Will Murray. Cover details on the bottom tier of page previous, from left, “It!” by , #1 [ Dec. ’72]; The Glob by , The Incredible #121 [Nov. ’69]; ’s Bog Beast, Tales of Evil #2 [Apr. ’75]. This page cover details from top: Marvin, the Dead-Thing, by Enrich Torres, #49 [July ’73]; Neal ’ Spectre of the Stalking Swamp, The #14 [July–Aug. ’71]; and by , gracing # 75 [June ’60]. “It” ©1994 Theodore Sturgeon Literary Trust. Illustration © the respective copyright holder. Inset right: The illustrations of the Just what makes a Swampman? because it resembles the Gillman) the late Joan Hanke-Woods, winner of Early on, we pretty much decided from Legion of Monsters the 1986 for “Best Fan to focus more on the so-called #1 [Marvel, Sept. ’75]. We say they’re Artist,” graced the cover and interi- descendants of Theodore more related to reptilian bi-peds or of a limited edition reprinting of Sturgeon’s “It” and less on the — think the Gorn from or Theodore Sturgeon’s classic short monster-inspired API’s The Alligator People movie [’59] story “It.” The stapled pamphlet, dead men who snap back to life. — lest we allow originally selling for $2, was The general criteria — though not adversary Garko, the Man-Frog, into published in 1978 by Misfit Press rigid, mind you — are that they are the mud-drenched mix! for the Eastern Michigan University those reanimated corpses taking Some might also think there’s a SF Society. Small, low-resolution on the physical characteristics of slew of behemoths and shamblers repros of Hanke-Woods superb drawings can be found at http:// swampland. That is, creatures of from the pages of the www.collectorshowcase.fr/divers_ once living and breathing human and Atlas giant monster titles of the edit_amer_page_5.htm. flesh but, through whatever horrid 1950s warranting inclusion. Alas, most process, they are transformed of those gargantuans — whether from man into monster, now com- Monstrom, the Dweller in the Black Below: At the request of the posed of mud, debris, and muck ’n’ Swamp; the Thing from the Swamp; artist, Matt Kaufenberg photo- mire, and often great strength. Creature from the Black Bog; or manipulated Francis Tsai’s superb Some folks take exception to Thing from the Hidden Swamp — are Man-Thing illustration and created our rather arbitrary selections and actually alien invaders bent on world an entirely new edition of Man- decry, for instance, the omission domination. And because contributor Thing #11, complete with some of of the David A. Roach includes the Marvel/ cleverly made-up cover blurbs. and Justice Society Atlas critters in his survey, we’ll be of America tormentor, giving the nod to some of these fetid Solomon Grundy. Yes, the horror is “born on fellers, especially the now world-famous , the walking Monday” in ’s Slaughter Swamp, tree creature (and Parliament of Trees member…?) and grown from the skeleton that “lay in a bog for breakout (with pal Rocket Raccoon) from the 50 years and an incredible biological miracle 2014 summer movie Guardians of the Galaxy. took place! On his bones a pseudo-life was But enough about who is not a Swampmen and let’s built. Bits of rotten wood and leaves built introduce those we have selected for inclusion: themselves into the monster of Solomon Grundy.” Or so explains , a.k.a. • Swamp Thing: Say what you will about the seminal The- Green Lantern, at the end of “Fighters Nev- odore Sturgeon character “It,” but when most of us think er Quit,” the Solomon Grundy debut story of monsters rising from the morass of the sinister bayou, in All-American Comics #61 [Oct. ’44], by it’s the resilient DC character Swamp Thing who first writer and drawn by Paul comes to mind. Maybe it’s the fact that the sympathetic Reinman. But we reckon, despite the creature became an instant fan favorite upon his debut in “It”-like and vivid description of 1971 due to the mastery of emerging comics artist Bernie a living corpse rising “out of the oozing Wrightson; or maybe it was the burgeoning and reso- slime,” Grundy (who was given his nant romance between Swampy and Abigail Arcane as moniker from the 19th century nursery developed by scripter Len Wein; or perhaps the two major rhyme*) is more inspired by Mary motion pictures that have been made — Swamp Thing

Shelley and , given his [1982] and The Return of Swamp Thing — plus a televi- Man-Thing © Marvel Characters, Inc. Illustration Francis Tsai. resemblance to the Universal Studio sion series [’90–’93] and a cartoon show [’91]. They all monster from the long-running Fran- bring Swampy to mind. (The NBC series , set kenstein motion picture franchise. to debut around the time this book is released, has teased There are also advocates who that the Plant Formerly Known as might be say we should include swamp appearing in that drama series. NBC tweeted a monsters such as The Creature of picture of Constantine holding a business card plus the the Black Lagoon and (perhaps message “Experiencing a problem? Call John #Constantine, Master of the Dark Arts at 404-248-7182.” * “Solomon Grundy, born on a Mon- When you call, a recording says, “Hello, you’ve reached day/Christened on Tuesday/Married . And that’s John Constantine. If you’re on Wednesday/Took ill on Thursday/ looking for Alec Holland, try the bloody swamp.” [http:// Grew worse on Friday/Died on Sat- tinyurl.com/q3ka2cy].) Whether, courtesy of an bio-restor- urday/Buried on Sunday/That was ative formula, a reanimated corpse made into a muscular the end of Solomon Grundy.” giant composed of swamp debris or as redefined as a 10 10 Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers This page: The Atlas Age of by DAVID A. Roach Taboo, Monstrom, The Glob TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Monsters, that glorious era preceding the advent of the Marvel The Welsh comic book historian and author — as well as super-heroes, gave us plenty of 2000 AD artist — ferrets out the lineage of muck-monsters muddy mucksters, though usually post-E.C. Comics up until the emergence of the Alan Moore visitors of extraterrestrial origin, brand. Roach, who co-edited The Warren Companion with and more often than not in exploits yours truly and recently scribed The Art of : The by writer-editor-AD and Warren Years for Dynamite, makes some startling discover- artists Jack Kirby (pencils) and ies in this detailed and entertaining overview of the advent of (inks), though scribe the shambling and ever-so deadly creatures emerging from and delineator Steve the backwoods in American comics. Ditko were often involved. Right inset are the Kirby/Ayers covers Swamp creatures of various sorts have been a staple of of #11 [Sept. comics ever since The Heap oozed onto the scene in ’60] and #72 Fighters #3, in 1942, but the genre really came into its own [Sept. ’61], and below the splash in the late ’60s and early ’70s. The roots of this explosion by K&A in Strange Tales #75 [June were planted in a series of “pre-hero” monster stories in ’60]. Bottom right is a panel from Marvel’s Atlas titles, such as Strange Tales and Journey into “Stranger in Town,” by Bill Parente Mystery, usually produced by the team of writer Stan Lee and ’62, Marvel dredged up seven swamp-based thrillers, (words) and (picture). and artist Jack Kirby. The first of these,“I Hear It Howl in the including such deathless epics as “I Found Monstrom, the which graced Creepy #26 [Apr. ’69]. Swamp!” from #6 [Nov. ’59], pretty much Dweller in the Black Swamp!” [Tales to Astonish #11, Sept. established the pattern ’60]; “The Glob” [Journey into Mystery #72, Sept. ’61]; and for these early swamp “The Thing from the Hidden Swamp” [TTA #30, Apr. ’62]. yarns. A grizzled bayou However only one monstrosity came back for more: the star dweller hunts his way of “Taboo! The Thing from Murky Swamp,” an alien summit through the muck and of sludge drawn with gloopy gusto by Kirby and Dick Ayers in stumbles upon a colos- Strange Tales #75 [June ’60] and the ST #77 [Oct. ’60] encore. sal creature emerging Taboo, of course, was bent on world domination and was from the water, and he quickly dispatched upon both appearances. Once Marvel’s flees the scene, rounds super-heroes supplanted the monsters, these evil extrater- up a posse, and con- restrials seemed to stop invading America’s swamps and fronts the beast. The went into temporary retirement. But, by 1969, horror seemed twist in this first story to be the next big thing and as the various comics publishers (drawn by a young dipped their feet in the stagnant pools, the swamp creature — not the again, and this is where our story really begins. usual selection for a For most fans, the sub-genre was fully revived with the giant monster saga — advent of Swamp Thing, Man-Thing or even (for a few intrep- and possibly written id souls) Skywald’s Heap revival. Not so… by Larry Lieber) is

Mar. 1969: DC Editor ’s Witching Hour pre- “Stranger in Town” © New Comic Company. that the beast is an mieres with several short stories narrated by three (Alex alien baby crying its Toth-designed) witches, but running throughout their eyes out after being narrative thread is the oncoming approach of a shambling misplaced by its ever creature who has just emerged from the fetid swamp. Ulti- more gargantuan mately the beast is revealed as merely the witches’ faithful parents, who swing servant but, in Egor’s wake, a legion of swamp creatures by in their U.F.O. to would subsequently arise from the putrid muck. rescue the child and take off. Apr. ’69: Creepy #26’s “Stranger In Town,” by writer Bill Between 1959 Parente and artist Tom Sutton, has not only the first Bronze

26 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers by RICHARD J. ARndT appearance. He, the ugliest swamp creature of them all, first appeared in Psycho #2 [Mar. ’71], with a by Chuck Richard J. Arndt, a frequent byline in these pages and now McNaughton and art by (pencils) and Mike a CBC contributing editor, is the author of TwoMorrows’ Esposito (inks). Like most such creatures, he was originally Star*Reach Companion and, recently for McFarland, the a human being — in this case, an irresponsible crop-dusting tome Horror Comics in Black and White: A History and pilot named Jim Roberts who crashes his bi-plane into a re- Catalog, 1964-2004. A habitual bibliographer, Arndt has likely stricted Army training center storing nerve gas. The mishap, indexed more horror comics (including the complete Sky- resulting , and merging of the plane’s pesticides with the wald checklist) than any other living soul, and he has also lethal biological agent results in one of the more nause- interviewed innumerable comic book creators. Some of his ating looking creatures in comicdom. There’s no delicate scholarship can be found at www.enjolrasworld.com. way to put it: The Heap is essentially a man-sized creature composed of snot, with a snake-like tongue Gene Simmons By 1971, there were two Heaps (well, three if we count would envy, a gaping mouth with fanged, broken teeth, who “Heap!” from MAD comics… but we’ll just stick with the eats rats whole, both living and dead, for nourishment. two). The original Heap was from and It turns out that prior to the accident, Roberts’ gold-dig- looked pretty much what you might expect from a swamp ging girlfriend and her surreptitious lover team-up to sabo- monster: mossy, mucky, and pretty much vegetative. The tage the cropduster and kill the pilot so they can claim his life Heap of Skywald Publications, on the other hand, was… insurance. No goody-goody himself, the newly-transformed well… a phlegm monster — bubbling, oozing, festering Heap crashes their celebratory party, kills the five attendees, with pustulant sores, and quite literally half-melted in and thus concludes his first adventure. Artist Ross Andru assumes the mantle of co-writer for the second episode [“The Heap Meets The Horror Master,” Psycho #3, May ’71] where the Heap battles an unhinged scientist who’s reanimated some of the most notorious villains in history to be his slaves—including Adolf Hitler, Giles De Rais, Lucretia Borgia, Attila the Hun, Rasputin, Caligula, Tamerlane, Ilse Koch — the “She-Wolf of the S.S.” (according to a hit drive-in grindhouse movie of the time), and even British The Heap TM & © the respective copyright holders. royalty, Richard III. You know the villain’s gotta be a real megalomaniacal Horror Master when these are the folks he decides to bring back to life and control! In the third Heap Psycho outing [“Night of Evil,” #4, Sept. ’71], Andru is sole writer and he has the mon- ster locate an old friend, 40 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers by JON B. COOKE with , who worked closely with his boss in the Marvel bullpen at the time, remembered, “Stan Lee called Tempting as it is to speculate that the liberalization of the me in… to begin this new book called …. Stan Comics Code launched the ’70s craze (though those changes wanted to do a series called ‘Man-Thing.’ He just had a certainly made for a permissive environment), the legion of sentence or so, just the idea of some guy doing some exper- comic-book beasts from the bayou began their imental drug and getting sort of fused with the swamp, so even before the 1971 modifications and, indeed, entirely out- he becomes this creature. It sounded a lot like the Heap, but side the Authority’s purview. It was in the Code-free pages of Stan never mentioned that character (although he’s said in black-&-white magazines published by competitors — one many other places since then that he was very familiar with a brand-new outfit — where commenced the odd category the Heap). I knew of the Heap, of course, but didn’t mention within horror comic books, it. I didn’t like the name ‘Man-Thing,’ because we already had the muck-monster genre. a character the Thing, and I thought it was confusing….” Right off, Stan Lee must “So with that couple of sentences,” Thomas continued, have realized the upstart “I went off and plotted the story. I don’t remember writing rival would be trouble for it down, but apparently I did, because someone sent me his House of Ideas. After a copy of my original two-page plot…. I gave it to Gerry all, it was being run by his Conway, who wrote a script from it, and it was given to Gray longtime right-hand man, Morrow to draw. It was my intention to basically bring the Marvel production manag- Heap into comics. By that time, of course, we were actually er , who had picking up the ball fairly late, because I’d already done the just quit to form that new Glob in The Incredible Hulk, and the Glob was clearly the , Skywald Pub- Heap, with a couple of minor changes.” lishing. Brodsky and partner concurs, “Man-Thing was really Roy’s Israel Waldman’s plan was idea, something that he wanted to do because of his interest to respectively take on in the old Heap character… I got the assignment from both Marvel and the top Roy. I was Roy’s pinch-hitter, so whenever he would start purveyor of black-&-white something that he didn’t really feel like he wanted to carry comic magazines, Warren forward, he would turn it over to me. I did Tomb of ; Publishing. Lee need not I did the ‘Man-Thing.’ I think my first several assignments have worried about the color were to write the dialogue on , X-Men, ‘The line, as it folded after no ’ in . Just stuff that he would more than a few issues each start and that he wasn’t really that enthusiastic about.” of Tender Love Stories, Wild The “Marvel Method” predominated at the House of

Western Action, Jungle Ad- Ideas at the time, where a written or verbal plot was given Savage Tales TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Properties, ventures, and Butch Cassidy; to a pencil artist, who would pace the story to his liking, but the Skywald horror line, sometimes adding elements, sometimes not, who would then comprised of Nightmare, return it to editorial for dialogue and captions to be added. Scream, and their flagship ti- Thereafter the story would be lettered and inked. tle, Psycho, would last a few “I didn’t really like doing what I thought of as horror years longer. Of concern, material,” confessed Thomas, “even though this was sort Above: ’s cover perhaps, was Skywald’s inclusion of regular features in their of super-hero horror. It started as early as when I plotted painting for the poorly distributed horror books, even resurrecting the Golden Age Heap. the first issue of Tomb of Dracula, from a very brief verbal black-&-white adventure magazine Despite Marvel publisher Martin Goodman’s reluctance concept by Stan — or sometimes on my own, like the first published by Marvel, Savage Tales to get into the b-&-w comics magazine field again (after issue of [Marvel Spotlight] ‘ by Night.’ I would plot #1 [May ’71], which included the ill-fated Spectacular Spider-Man and Pussycat), Stan the the story, in greater or lesser detail, sometimes even giving very of Man- Man wanted in on Jim Warren’s action and planned an a written plot to the artist, sometimes not. And then I’d give it Thing, in the origin tale as plotted adventure title — “rated for Mature readers” — that, like to somebody else, usually Gerry at that stage, to write. Once by Roy Thomas, scripted by Gerry the Skywald line-up of Hell-Rider, The Crime Machine, and I had done the general concept, I went back to my other Conway, and drawn by Gray Mor- horror books, would continuing characters. Thus books. I had no desire to write the first story of ‘Man-Thing’ row. The second issue (sans Ted a new title was scheduled, #1 featuring the first installments or ‘Werewolf by Night,’ or [Tomb of] Dracula, or whatever.” Sallis) wouldn’t appear for another of a series, Ka-Zar, the Femizons, Black Thomas did have specific ideas with the characterization 29 or so months, in Oct. ’73. Brother, and a shambling, Heap-knock-off called Man-Thing. as first presented. “We wanted him to be quite different from

44 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers Swamp Thing, House of Secrets TM & © DC Comics.

-clad #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers #6 presents Comic Book Creator E ook By 1971 was earning his keep (and then some) at the House of . A few yearsBy 1971 Joe Orlando was earning his keep (and Though once featuring suspenseful if rather innocu- If the Heap at Skywald and Marvel’s Man-Thing echoed, with their ferocious brutality and scantily Man-Thing If the Heap at Skywald and Marvel’s damsels, those cheap, knocked-out horror comics of the early 1950s, the resident muck-monster at DCdamsels, those cheap, knocked-out horror comics tales of the macabre. By the era offered in four-color Comics resonated with the very best that bygone of Horror and Vault From the Crypt, of Fear, early ’70s, the home of fondly-recalled titles Tales by JON B. C might have been 15 years gone from American newsstands and yet, in the pages of Swamp Thing, themight have been 15 years gone from American resurrected courtesy of the excellent -exquisite quality of Entertaining Comics seemed writing of a smart up-and-coming fan-turned-pro notinspired pen of a young, brilliant artist and clever likely no coincidence that And, truth be told, it’s unaccustomed to Feldstein & Gaines twist endings. alumnus, were shepherded by a notable E.C. Comics scribe Len Wein and delineator Bernie Wrightson the had been story editor at (who, only a few years prior, talented artist and clever plot-man Joe Orlando premier mystery ), whose second act in life as DC’s black-&-white horror mag outfit these three emerged the most famous swamp monster of all. Through comics editor was in full flower. had, born of desperation and pressure editorial director and future publisher earlier, implemented the renowned age of artist-as-editorfrom the executive suites upstairs to boost circulation, and innovative material from, among others, multi-talent- at DC Comics, which ushered in extraordinary Infantino wisely snatched artist-editor Dick , and . ed creators Jack Kirby, street-smart Orlando, then freelancing for MAD magazineGiordano from and also the and other commercial accounts (including, now and again, DC), to both head up their own titles for a revitalized mystery comics line inspired by the E.C. of old. ous tales of the strange and unusual, by the time of the House and sister title TV show, showcas- with HOM of Secrets had gone “super-hero,” ing “ For Hero” (sockamagee!) and the exploits of and Prince Ra-Man sharing HOS (the latter title actually suffering cancellation in late ’66). But, by the close, the comics industry was facing imminent decade’s doom. Readers, particularly girls, were leaving the field in droves and those who remained often became attracted Infantino is . more to the inter-connected hired to bring on the era of the “daring and the different” new corporate owners in an effort to return the by DC’s company to those glorious — and profitable — days of Batmania. Then-publisher Irwin Donenfeld orders a revival of the mystery anthology books and, after hours at DC, buddies Infantino and Orlando, both Italians sons City who had met a few from the boroughs of years earlier and hit it off, conspire to come up with new concepts. “While I was an artist,” Infantino told this writ- “he would come up to DC working on a few things and er, we would just sit and talk. I just listened… and Joe was full of ideas.” (Infantino later boasts to interviewers that Creating That Dreadful Thing Len Wein, writer-creator of Swamp Thing, on working with Wrightson and Alan Moore Conducted by JON B. COOKE was really hard-boiled. We didn’t want to keep them, so we wound up selling them off for like a nickel each. You can still [One of the wave of Young Turk fans-turned-pros see the palm print on my forehead every time I slap myself in Inset right: In a photo by Alan arriving at DC Comics in the late 1960s and early the head, going, “What the did I do?” [laughter] Light, Len Wein attends the 1982 ’70s, award-winning writer/editor Len Wein But, at the time, we just thought they were gross San Diego Comic Con. Below: A has risen to make a significant in and disgusting. few of the titles fledgling writer the field, if but for his co-creations of CBC: When did you start drawing? Len Wein worked on before his the characters Swamp Thing for DC Len: I always had to scribble as a kid. Swamp Thing stint. From top is and at Marvel. The writer When I was in eighth grade, in one #18 [Nov.–Dec. ’68; of innumerable scripts for comic of my art classes, I had a teacher Twilight Zone #35 [Dec. ’70]; and named Mr. Smedley. He was a very Hot Wheels #5 [Nov.–Dec. ’70]. books in a variety of genres, the New York-born creator has nice man. I drew a picture of a also been an renowned editor, shark, of all things, and he came working on Alan Moore’s initial up, looked at the shark, and said, Swamp Thing exploits, as well “You know, you actually have real as editing Watchman. Len artistic talent. That’s a hard thing has worked as a writer in the to do and you did it very well. You animation field, as well as video could be an artist.” I went, “Gee, gaming. The following interview if I could be an artist, I could be a took place on January 23, 2004, !” And that was in a home filled to the it. From that point on, I was an art rafters with rare and beautiful major. Throughout junior high and mementos of a well-spent career high school, I took every art class, in comics. During the interview, Len’s and I went to college as an art major. dog Sheba would wander in and out of My goal was to get into comics as a the living room. Five years later, both home comic book artist. and beloved pet would be lost in a tragic fire. CBC: Did you read the Atlas monster books? Len: Later on, I did, when I stumbled upon

The following was transcribed by Brian K. Morris.] Len Wein portrait © Alan Light. Teen Titans TM & © DC Comics. ’s Twilight Zone TM & © CBS Corporation. Hot Wheels Mattel, Inc. “Doom, The Thing That Ate My Lunch,” and all the rest of those. I went back and got some, but not at the time they Comic Book Creator: What were the that were being published. you remember, Len? CBC: Were your favorites from DC? Len: I remember vaguely buying one of the very last issues Len: That’s all there was when I was starting to read! I of , in 1952, sometime around then. I must have never got into Archie. I was never an Archie fan, but I read been four or five. The first I actively remember purchasing all the DC books, especially the Julie Schwartz-edited books. on my own, I guess, was . I don’t remember CBC: How did you meet ? the issue number, but the story was “The Man Who Ended Len: I met Marv through a friend of mine. There was a Batman’s Career,” and it introduced Professor Milo, who I group of us geeks in Levittown who were comic fans, and later reintroduced to the book when I was writing it. I felt I one of them, was a guy named Ron Fradkin. There was a owed him that much, at least. [chuckles] group of fans called TISOS, so named by the CBC: Where did you grow up? late [DC editorial assistant] Mark Hanerfeld (who was the Len: I was born in , but moved to Levittown, on model for , the host of House of Secrets), which was , when I was seven-and-a-half. I had a generally an acronym for The Illegitimate Sons of Superman. Ron and fine childhood, though I was a very sickly kid. The first time I I were fans and we decided we wanted to meet other fans remember getting a bulk of comics was during a stay in the to create a bigger group. So we wrote Julie Schwartz, God hospital when I was seven. I had all sorts of colitis and so bless him. His letter columns listed names and addresses, there was not one year of school that I didn’t spend at least and we found a Marvin Wolfman in the letters page of Mys- a month or so in bed and, occasionally, in the hospital. I did tery In Space #75, and his address was listed as Flushing. not go through one full year of grade through high school So we looked up the phone number and called Marv. By the without missing a month here and there. most bizarre coincidence, his older sister, married with her CBC: Was it painful? own kid at that point, lived in Levittown and he was coming Len: Oh, yes. It was very painful, the equivalent of having out that weekend to visit. So we went over to his sister’s ulcers. Seven years old and have ulcers. I was a very high- place, met Marv, and he and I began a life-long friendship, strung young boy. So my dad bought me that first batch of one that has lasted for 45 years, to this day. comics and I just became a from that moment. CBC: What were you drawing? Were you copying from CBC: Did you encounter, as a kid, the E.C. Comics? comic books? Len: Yes. I remember when I was nine or ten, and my best Len: Yes, though I also learned to draw from classes I took, friend at the time lived down the block. His older brother had but I worked with Marv on . We would so a lot of a bunch of E.C. Comics and he gave them to us. We looked at stuff together. them and found them so disgusting at the time. The E.C. stuff CBC: What was the name of your fanzine?

74 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers Bernie and the Bayou Beast Wrightson on the monster that made the man and the man who made the monster

Conducted by JON B. COOKE something? — but I always thought of it as the drug store.) One wall of this place was a comic-book rack and (don’t [Along with future Studio-mates Barry Windsor-Smith and ask me if I’ve since imagined the amount because I was Michael Wm. Kaluta, Bernard Albert Wrightson became one just a kid!) it seemed like hundreds of comic books on this of the finest artists of his generation to work in the main- rack, from the floor, all the way to the ceiling. You know, just stream comic book realm, and it was in the pages of Swamp one comic book after another… Archie, , Donald Thing where the prodigy improved his already considerable Duck, Superman… all the comic-book titles of the day were talents into an entirely new sphere. up there, and, of course, there were also the E.C. Comics. You know, Tales From the Crypt, The Vault of Horror, and everything, and that was the stuff I wanted. And they had a storefront window and, instead of putting merchandise to display, they built little window seats around this window kid-sized window seats — just these little boxy things. And you could come in and rent a comic book for two cents. I mean you could buy it whole for 10¢, but you had the option to rent the comic for only two cents! They had a little dish on the counter to put your two cents in, right? So you could sit there in the store, read the comic, then put it back on the rack, or pass it to your friend, right? And this is what we did. You know, both of my parents worked so when I got out of school, which was a couple of blocks away, I knew they wouldn’t be home for an hour so I’d go to this place with a bunch of friends and we’d read comics. That’s where I read most of my first E.C. Comics. CBC: How old were you? Bernie: I would have been five or six years old. CBC: Obviously, it was distasteful to your mother, the horror comics. Did it feel like you were doing something wrong by reading it, that it was forbidden? Bernie: Oh, absolutely! Part of it was Catholic guilt. I was raised Catholic, so I know about guilt! CBC: Did you go to church every week? Bernie: Oh, yes. Above: Bernie Wrightson, artist By the time Bernie left the title, the Baltimore-raised CBC: Did you go to confession? wunderkind, relaxes in the ’70s. creator was in universal demand, and he would produce Bernie: Yes, though I never confessed about reading com- Below: A pencil sketch from that awesome work for the Warren black-&-white horror line, ics, because reading them was not a sin. same decade of Bernie’s most and then to create his magnum opus, illustrations for Bernie CBC: No yet, anyway. [laughter] beloved creation, Swamp Thing. Wrightson’s Frankenstein. Hollywood discovered Bernie Bernie: Right. It was something that I knew my mother Photo © the respective copyright holder. Illustration © Bernie Wrightson. Swamp Thing DC Comics. shortly thereafter and he would find work as designer on didn’t like. You know, it was like any time I was reading those , Heavy Metal, and The , among others. things at the store, or at a friend’s house, my mother was He would also become an illustrator for Stephen always there in spirit, hanging over my shoulder. It’s as if King’s , and Cycle of the Were- I could feel her while I was indulging in a guilty wolf, and others. This interview is excerpted from a pleasure. two day interview conducted on Jan. 21–22, 2004 CBC: Did you look at other horror comic publishers as well? in his studio in San Fernando Valley, California. Bernie: [Laughs] Oh, I did, yeah. Early on, very quickly, I This interview was transcribed by Brian K. Mor- was able to tell the difference. For one thing, you couldn’t ris. The remaining segment of the discussion miss an E.C. comic because the format was so strong. Every will appear in our next issue, which cover-fea- title of theirs had the same cover layout with the big, drippy tures the artist, where you’ll find out why Bernie title letters and the pictures of the hosts, the three little gained an “e” at the end of his name! — Y.E.] circles. So yeah, even if I didn’t read the title, I knew it was an E.C. and knew that these were better than the others, Comic Book Creator: When did you read although I did read a lot of the others. your first horror comic? CBC: Did you read the Atlas stuff? Bernie Wrightson: I don’t know. But there Bernie: Oh, absolutely, but I knew the E.C. stuff was the was a store on the corner in the old neighborhood, best. You know, I couldn’t have told you at the time that they before we moved to the suburbs, and they had a were better drawn because I was just a kid, so how’re you soda fountain in there and a candy counter. It was a going to know? But looking back on it, that’s what I respond- shop where you went to get soda and cigarettes. (I ed to. I responded to that level of artwork in most comics. don’t know what you’d call it — a sundries shop, or They were much more realistic. You know, I looked at an E.C.

90 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers Déjà Vu: The Lost Swamp Thing In the mid-1980s, Len Wein and Bernie Wrightson reunited to produce a until when Alec Holland plunges to his in the bayou — the artist suf- brand new Swamp Thing saga, this one in the wake of the revolutionary sto- fered an existential about his most famous creation and realized, much ries by writer Alan Moore and his artist collaborators. As Bernie tells it, after to his creative partners detriment, you can’t go home again, and abandoned completing rough pencils on the first 48-page episode of Déjà Vu — a story the project. Courtesy of Bernie, here (and on the pages following) are select where Swamp Thing travels in time, first to the prehistoric age and forward pages from that lost story.

have a lot of fun with this and let’s do the stuff we really want to do, but let’s straddling two buildings and his cape is blowing out, and it’s at least 20 feet also do something that’s going to be popular and make some money.” Here’s long. I remember Neal teasing me about that and saying, “Yeah, I loved the something that, to my knowledge, has never really been done before: The idea of the shrinking cape.” It’s like he’s standing up here, it’s 20 feet long, monster as a super-hero, or the super-hero as monster. and he jumps to the ground and it somehow shrinks in mid-flight to a five-foot CBC: No, “Frankenstein” by Dick Briefer was comedic, right? Certainly the cape. He won’t trip over it. romantic angle was unprecedented. It was an adult, mature approach to CBC: Oh, you’re being too literal here, Bernie. Artistic license! You gotta let monsters with a touch of Wuthering Heights. it go. [laughs] Did you have a ball doing this? Art © Bernie Wrightson. Swamp Thing TM & DC Comics. Bernie: The Hulk was a monster, but not quite a hero. You couldn’t quite Bernie: I had a great time, yeah. It was really the first time I did Batman, figure out who the Hulk was, right? Ours was a conscious effort to do a other than a couple of covers. You know, actually doing a Batman story. monster hero. He is a good guy. CBC: Though I had to have seen your work earlier, the first time your work CBC: In spite of his circumstances. Why does he want to be good? made an impact on me was a Detective Comics cover in which Batman was Bernie: It’s in his nature. He’s a leopard who can’t change his spots. He on top of a stagecoach. For some reason, I thought you were an old guy, a was a good guy when he was human and so he’s going to be a good guy longtime veteran, probably a 65-year old artist who’d been at it since the when he’s a monster. He’s not like Jekyll and Hyde. Golden Age. There just seemed a level of accomplishment and an “old- CBC: [Indicates ST #7] For a kid to see this, this kicked ass. I mean this truly school” feel about your art. was a ’s : Bernie Wrightson does Batman. You gave the cape a Bernie: I heard that a lot from people, so you’re not alone in that, Jon. My character of its own. stuff is old-fashioned and it was that way on purpose. I was trying to make Bernie: This was a lot of fun. Yeah, I remember getting teased by Neal. it look like Graham Ingels or Frazetta, and in my opinion, I fell way short. It [indicates page 12] Batman’s standing on a building, the big middle panel, was like neither one of those guys, but something else. But yeah, I’d run into

10 6 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers Painting © Stephen R. Bissette & John Totleben. Swamp Thing TM & © DC Comics. I do it on a notepad. but one of the better British TV comedies, Father Yes, any pondering at all. There was really wasn’t Sometimes they take a lot of thinking about. but it varies. Sometimes they take over, What is your writing process? Do you write on a that hurt? In longhand? Doesn’t How long does it really take? For this one you said 15 Do the stories take a life of their own and you’re just Do they take over? I started working at Marvel and then they sacked [writerI started working at Marvel When I stopped working on , it was a big When I was starting out and not handling so many books, , is about a group of Catholic priests in Ireland, and #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers #6 presents When did you start writing comics? Jon B. Cooke: When did you start writing was the start of my writingAlan Moore: Doctor Who I was still drawing at that time. The writing though career, and supplement my drawing career, started out as a way to [on his comic strips, Maxwell thethen the drawing career to] became too time-consuming Cat, and Roscoe Moscow career. supplement my writing on the main strip. This was mentor] and Alan’s of the back-up strips for Doctorafter I’d done two or three strip andWho. I think I was next in line to take over the lead writing career. I’d gotten a very precarious hold on a comic they’d sacked,But, on the other hand, this was Steve Moore work on Doctor anymore. The assignment so I said I couldn’t Steve Moore.was important to me money-wise, but this was want to do He was my best mate. So I said that I didn’t anymore work for Doctor Who, but I was still okay working at Marvel. was starting at the same time. This decision, but also revenge on Marvel. attempt to perhaps get was ’s .) At the Warrior (He actually used as an artist on and he asked beginning, there was Dez starting up Warrior Moore, Davehis original crowd — , Steve workingLloyd, , all the people that he’d been of Marvel — to work on the new with on The Mighty World me and Dezmagazine. I think Steve Moore recommended about what ithad seen the article where I was interviewed asked me if there was They was like to be a fledgling writer. I said, just offany project I would like to do in the future, and revivedthe top of my head, that it would be great if someone how to do thatMarvelman. I had a really brilliant idea as to he got in touchcharacter in the 1980s. Dez had seen that so Marvelman forand said that he was going to get the rights to “Sure.”his new comic and would I like to write it? I said, Jon: computer? Alan: Jon: Alan: Ted an old lady who looks after them, a bit where there’s there’s Mrs. Doyle, and makes them tea every five or six minutes. Somebody gets her a new tea-making machine, and says, love this, Mrs. Doyle! It will take the misery out of “You’ll making tea.” She looks at him with contempt and says, my ] That’s [laughter “Perhaps some of us like the misery.” attitude. it would normally take me three days. On Swamp Thing, I did handwritten and then typed. eight pages a day, Jon: hours, but did you include pondering and mentally conceptu- alizing in that time frame? Alan: Jon: the conduit? Alan: Jon: Alan: ] — Y.E. Comic Book Creator Alan Moore, one of the finest writers — if not the finestAlan Moore, one of the Conducted by JON B. COOKE & GEORGE KHOURY Conducted by JON B. COOKE [ from the realm of the comic book,writer — to ever emerge the mainstream medium,single-handedly revolutionized sensitivities and a bold, captivatingintroducing real-world be attempted by lesser talents. Hisstyle that continues to been tumultuous and sporadic, pep- tenure in the field has with both the top U.S. publishers,pered with disaffections Georgeyet still a great supporter of much smaller imprints. in his Northamp- Ed visited the British scribe Khoury and Ye on a brightton, U.K., row house (where he does his writing) Saturday afternoon and evening in May 2002. The Saga of the Swamp God Swamp the of Saga The The tender, unsettling horrors of Alan Moore’s epic tale of Swamp Thing and Abby epic tale of Alan Moore’s unsettling horrors The tender, [Sept. ’84], so impressed DC [Sept. ’84], so impressed DC Next page: Portrait of “The and advisor José Villarrubia. editorial that it led to painted Original Writer,” Alan Moore, Original Writer,” This exquisite painting Below: This exquisite painting by Stephen R. Bissette and John by Stephen R. Bissette and Totleben, which appeared as the Totleben, cover of #93 covers on the Swamp Thing title. photographed by dear CBC friend 13 2 All art and characters TM & © DC Comics. #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers #6 presents Comic Book Creator 13 6 Steve Bissette’s Bayou Days A remarkably candid interview with “bad boy” SRB on turbulent and joyful days on ST

Conducted by JON B. COOKE Steve: You know, I think I only ever saw one or two coverless ones when I was little. I remember lucking into a A NOTE ON THE [Stephen Russell Bissette, raised on a steady diet of mystery box of junk comics that were a nickel each, and I snapped comics, horror movies, and macabre fiction, was the artist them up. I didn’t care what they were. There were a couple PRESENTATION who most visually redefined Swamp Thing during the legend- of Charlton Hot Rod comics in there, but also were a couple coverless horror comics and one of them was an E.C. be- Faced with limited space and ary Alan Moore-scripted run — with substantial help from cause I recognized ’s work from Creepy. likely the most informative friends (and former fellow alumni of the Joe Kubert School), CBC: These were the first horror comics you’d seen? interview in this entire book Rick Veitch and John Totleben. Here, in an interview con- Steve: No, my first horror comics were the pre-Marvel — a blow-by-blow, behind ducted in early Nov. 2003 in his Vermont home, Steve reveals , the ones with those Ditko stories and the scenes account of the how he and his art cohorts were also intimately involved in Kirby’s “ Fang Foom,” and all that stuff. There were also early issues of the Alan the plotting aspects of the early run of that legendary series. two that John Stanley wrote, which I loved and Moore-scripted Swamp Transcribed by Brian K. Morris, this talk is an edited version still do. They scared the sh t out of me! Ghost Stories #1 and Thing run — we made the of a much longer, career-spanning discussion we hope to * Tales From the Tomb, a 25¢ annual that was really thick. I difficult decision to keep the present in the near future. — Y.E.] wore them out. John Stanley had his finger on the pulse of excising of text to a minimum Comic Book Creator: Obviously, you clued into mon- what was scary to kids, and also on this very childish side and hence sacrificing a sters early on, right? of us that’s necessary in a certain kind of horror storytelling proper graphic presentation Stephen R. Bissette: Oh, big time. Bear in mind that, where dream illogic made sense, where there’s an internal for this section. My regrets from my earliest years, another key part of my life growing rationale at work that makes no rational sense whatsoever. to Steve but, upon reading, up in Vermont was spending time in the woods, spending But if it’s established and followed through, it works. And those fascinated with the time around the ponds, catching salamanders and frogs. those two comics, I still consider key horror comics, and not “Sophisticated Suspense” I recognized, from a very young age, that animal reality is just because of the impression it made on me, but I’ve met comics that redefined the quite different from human reality. We’re never going to other artists through the years, like the Hernandez Brothers, field’s horror genre, will likely grasp it, but I have empathy there. They’re living, we’re alive; who remembered those two comics. be grateful for this decision. to me, it all just part of the world, and it’s very primal. With CBC: How old were you when you first encountered [Steve’s self-published comic] Tyrant, I really wanted to get Warren? the reader to empathize with these creatures without an- Steve: Well, I bought Creepy #1 off the newsstand, and thropomorphizing. It’s part of what drove my work on Swamp I vividly remember buying Eerie #2. That one I loved even Thing, part of what drives everything I draw. What is it that’s more than Creepy because of the cover, and the stories were alive that pulls at us? stronger, and it drove me f*cking nuts when I couldn’t find To me, the trees, rocks, all of nature is alive and it’s not Eerie #1, [laughs] which later, we got to the bottom of. But some American thing. It’s just something I felt from at the time, there was no way around it. You know, the key the time I was very little. I never saw the world as a dead pre-comic in my life was Famous Monsters of Filmland. place and I try to communicate that in my drawing. I think CBC: It’s interesting that we’ve talked comics for a while that’s part of why when Joe Kubert showed me how to use now and you haven’t mentioned super-heroes at all. a brush, it clicked because it was the first tool I’d ever had Steve: Super-heroes didn’t matter to me at all. My brother in my hand in my life that the line was alive. That was just a collected super-hero comics when I was little, and friends Below: Steve Bissette (penciler) wicked catalyst for me because I had drawn with ballpoint would always have them, and they were at the barbershop. and John Totleben () carica- pens all through high school, which drove my art teacher But I was bored sh*tless by Bouncing Boy and all that horse- ture themselves in this panel from nuts! sh*t. Super-heroes just didn’t interest me, and they never Swamp Thing #31 [Dec. ’84]. That’s CBC: Did you have any exposure to E.C. Comics when you have. It really rattled me at first when Alan started bringing SRB on the left and JTT on right. were young? the DC super-heroes into Swamp Thing, because they had TM & © DC Comics.

15 0 Comic Book Creator #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers Swamp Thing TM & © DC Comics. Photo © .

Not really. I like using horror in context of other Not really. We were doing the back-up stories in Sgt. Rock. Prior were doing We He’s as you know. Bissette is a very friendly guy, Yes! Bissette is the most talented human a better. Oh, he’s Were horror comics a special genre for you? horror comics a special genre for Were What was the first project you and Steve worked onWhat was the first project you and Steve worked Did you really hit it off with Steve from the beginning? Did you look at Steve like an equal? Almost immediately, we went beyond this close friend- Almost immediately, The demands of operating in a commercial environment, Steve and I shared a house together when we were #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers #6 presents me in that sense. I really wanted to read it as a 19-year-old, wanted to read it as a 19-year-old, me in that sense. I really of know, other DC titles. You say that about the where I can’t I was only keeping track of Jackall the DC line at the time, was, and what Fourth World, Kirby’s But both The (just for the art style). doing in things were an indication that Shadow and Swamp Thing by the time we enrolled in the Now, were opening up at DC. over in comics,” and we was, “It’s Kubert School, the word all the teachers, including Joe. were getting this from CBC: Rick: horror as the things, but I’m not like Steve, who embraces genre. He studies it and wants to know all of its aspects,genre. He studies it and wants to know all of bad horroreven going as far as to watch all of the horribly I avoid that stuff, but I like to use horror know, movies. You a horror element in usually within a regular comic. There’s thing I do. just about any super-hero CBC: that was seen by the public? Rick: drawing liketo that, I probably did 20 short stories. I was just a maniac all the time. [laughs] CBC: Rick: courtliness, anda complete gentleman, filled with charisma, was like, “Hey, everybody loves him. When I first met him, it [laughter] ItI’ve finally found my long-lost friend, Bissette!” was as if I’d known him my entire life somehow. Bissette was the ship and took it beyond that into creativity. wherefirst person with whom I had a creative relationship like two It’s just impossible to describe. you… Jon, it’s everything. We musicians in sync and we would just click on wherever weused to carry around paper in our pockets and, making gagswere, we’d pull ’em out and we’d be drawing, and sketches, and just thinking up stupid things. There was this constant flow of creativity that was unstoppable and it very cool, though that level was giddy and really cool; very, became more difficult to maintain as we took on commercial work. and our two different personalities, put pressure on our But collaboration, something with which we struggle today. some of the most fun I’ve ever had — outside of bed — was to be in a room with Bissette jamming on comics. But, y’see, the trick is to get him into the room and set his ass in a chair and a pencil into his hand. [laughs] But once we get it as if the whole room starts to like making music, it’s going, it’s a , terrific lift up, and we’re turning out pages, and it’s feeling, one I’ve never shared with anyone else in my life. with whom I collaborated with Tom, Not with my brother, quite a bit, or the few other creative partnerships I’ve had in my life (such as Alan Moore and )… not with that same intensity. attending , and today he lives right down still very close. so we’re the road from me, here in Vermont, CBC: Rick: being I have ever met. And this is no faint praise because Comic Book Creator Roarin’ Rick’s Rare Bit Fiends, Roarin’ Rick’s This interview was conducted on Nov. 8, This interview was conducted on Nov. studio, and was Vermont 2003, in Rick’s I have read “It,” though I can’t say it made I have read “It,” though I can’t ] transcribed by Brian K. Morris. — Y.E. the art gig on a resurrected comic series. pulled into DC’s orbit when a buddy scored pulled into DC’s and a string of Alan Moore collaborations, was I missed it in House of Secrets, but I started Do you remember the first short story in House digging what Marvel was doing, looking at DC as old-fashioned, with these older guys, just do- Comic Book Creator: Did you ever read terms of DC Comics because most of us grew upterms of DC Comics because most of us grew ing the same thing over and over and over again. Theodore Sturgeon’s “It”? Theodore Sturgeon’s were being allowed to come through to do things slightly different. So Swamp Thing comic affected Rick:

But Swamp Thing was a signal that the young guys from issue #1, though I didn’t buying Swamp Thing from issue #1, though I didn’t really collect comics. I just bought and read them toreally collect comics. I just bought and read of Secrets #92? Rick: CBC: study them. But Swamp Thing was a totally important

came out. book, something worth talking about. As much as Alan,book, something worth talking about. As much a huge impression on me. But Bernie and Len’s Swamp a huge impression on me. But Bernie and Len’s Steve and John’s version blew comics wide open, Bernie version blew comics Steve and John’s and Len’s Swamp Thing had a similar effect, especially in and Len’s definitely. I was probably 19 when that series first Thing definitely. By the time he graduated the Joe Kubert School of CartoonBy the time he graduated Conducted by JON B. COOKE [ thought the late ’70s, Richard Veitch and Graphic Art in the the mainstream and thus forgedfuture of comics lay outside venues, such as Heavy Metal. Rickahead finding alternative collab- outré work as a teenager, had already produced on Two-Fisted Veitch, writer Tom orating with his brother, that appeared in 1973. ButZombies, a horror underground the creator, through association with Kubert School alumni, later known for Brat Pack and

Rick Veitch recalls the times, often good, sometimes rough, while on Swamp Thing good, sometimes rough, recalls the times, often Rick Veitch Roarin’ Rick’s Swamp Sojourn Swamp Rick’s Roarin’ 16 2 Story © Rick Veitch. Art © . Swamp Thing TM & © DC Comics. - #6 presents Swampmen: Muck-Monsters and Their Makers #6 presents That’s a good way to put it. That’s know if I was crowd- I liked it in the beginning. Later on — and I don’t I turn monthly-comic guy. I’m pretty reliable. I’m a pretty good Usually, In terms of the deadlines, I think so. He must have been. He could Steve’s work has such an edge — maybe it’s anarchistic — wild work has such an edge — maybe it’s Steve’s inks over your pencils? What did you think of ’s How were you with deadlines ? Was Totleben a life-saver quite often for Bissette? Totleben Was national media and Rick Veitch’s interview about the story’s troubles would troubles the story’s interview about and Rick Veitch’s national media Street of The Wall on the front page and even , on MTV, appear in Time out to be an the coverage turns The real reason for Journal in June of 1989. - by rival corporate pow parent company to embarrass DC’s apparent effort value at the time. stock Time/Warner’s to perhaps dampen ers, an attempt ing this pain-staking pointillism approach he has. John has got this whole theory of the beauty of ugliness I think he got from Rodan, and I thought it worked perfectly with Steve. CBC: Raw and primitive and a little bit amateurish, but not in any untalented way. maybe? Rick: CBC: Rick: ing him in terms of time or he just had too much work — he would begin simplifying everything and his trademarked textures would, all of a sudden, Still, it could have been me not be there and backgrounds would disappear. just running late on the jobs. CBC: Rick: stuff out, but there are times when I get thrown a curve ball, when another textures on Swamp Thing, which was great. CBC: Rick: crank a page out in a phenomenally short period of time, especially consider Comic Book Creator ‘Morning Lost The ’: the of Yes. When I would help Steve, I might draw a Swamp Thing figure, Yes. Yes, absolutely. I thought I understood his style pretty well. Well, if his style pretty well. Well, I thought I understood absolutely. Yes, Well, it was, but I had done a number of fill-ins before that. I did it was, but I had done a number of fill-ins before that. Well, Did Totleben change your art frequently? Did Totleben So were you trying to stay true to Steve’s kinetic style and approach? So were you trying to stay true to Steve’s So was #51 the beginning of your run? rough textures of where the roots might be, and then he would create the all the stuff on Swamp Thing. You would just have to put in the shadows and all the stuff on Swamp Thing. You brow more than what I penciled. But with John, you wouldn’t have to draw brow more than what I penciled. But with John, you wouldn’t as sharp as what Bissette would do, who would accentuate the beak and would do the same thing although it’s not quite the same. The beak isn’t quite not quite the same. The beak isn’t would do the same thing although it’s because mine was a bit more lumpier. When I penciled Swamp Thing, John because mine was a bit more lumpier. Swamp Thing, giving the character that more jagged, sharp-edged look, but Steve would go over it with a 3H or 2H pencil and he would make it his Rick: CBC: play with that. pane of glass shattered on the ground, and he makes it work. Sometimes, I’ll rically simple but he takes this whole insane approach to the panels, like a you look at it, Steve shatters the page more than I do. I stay more geomet- CBC: Rick: “Brimstone Ballet,” “Growth Patterns,” Constantine’s first issue…. “Brimstone Ballet,” “Growth Patterns,” Constantine’s Rick: CBC: in to draw the book. “Pog” was done overnight! Nazareth. The industry reporting on the controversy was picked up by the the controversy was industry reporting on Nazareth. The comic book, along with The Demon and the Golden Gladiator, was Jesus of was Jesus and the Golden Gladiator, along with The Demon comic book, was suddenly squelched when higher-ups at DC learned a guest star in the at DC learned squelched when higher-ups was suddenly #88, “Morning of the Magician,” Swamp Thing #88, “Morning intended story for Veitch’s , writer Rick inking and lettering stage it all the way to the Though it made 16 6