MASTER THESIS

The 8 Benefits of Joining an Online Collective A study into the fascinating world of SoundCloud Collectives

Name: Russell-Phillip Bodine Student Number: 11369396 Date: 26th January 2018 Supervisor: Rozentale, Ieva Program: MSc Business Administration Track: Entrepreneurship and Management in the Creative Industries

STATEMENT OF ORIGINALITY

This document is written by Russell-Phillip Bodine who declares to take full responsibility for the contents of this document.

I declare that the text and the work presented in this document is original and that no sources other than those mentioned in the text and its references have been used in creating it.

The Faculty of Economics and Business is responsible solely for the supervision of completion of the work, not for the contents.

2 Acknowledgements

I would first like to thank my supervisor, Ieva Rozentale reminding me that I should not “Reinvent the Wheel,” even though I always try.

I want to thank my Mother who birthed and raised me without her I wouldn’t be the individual I am today.

Shout out to my team; without them I…. I don’t even know where I would be.

Finally, I want to thank my Amsterdam family who have supported me throughout this phase of my journey.

“It's in every day dream every sigh, I want it Even if it makes me cry, I want it I've got to have it or I'll die, I want it Does your family even care? I want it Ohh, did they tell you I'd be there? I want it I've gotta get this for my team, I want it Just tell yourself this was my dream Victoryyyyyy, I can smell it in the air In my mind it's surrounds me everywhere, But what a wondrous occasion, this could be In fact I know it will, cause this is my victoryyyyyyyyy” - N*E*R*D (No-one Ever Really Dies)

3 Table of Contents

Abstract ...... 6 Introduction ...... 7 Literature Review ...... 10 In the last section, it was briefly introduced the significant market size that SoundCloud currently maintains. This chapter will highlight all the literature needed to understand the functions of the independent artists to collaborate with other independent artists...... 10 “The Struggle is Real in the Music Industry” – An Artist ...... 10 Why Do-It-Yourself? ...... 11 Taking DIY to the Next Level – by Doing-It-Together! ...... 13 Sense of Belonging (Friends, Family, & Team) ...... 14 A Win-Win – Goal achievement ...... 15 RESEARCH METHOD ...... 18 Aim of the Study ...... 18 Research Approach ...... 18 Participants ...... 19 Data Collection Tools ...... 20 Procedure and Data Analysis ...... 20 Quality of Research ...... 22 Results ...... 23 Creating a sense of Belonging ...... 23 TRUE Collective ...... 23 KF Collective ...... 25 NY Collective ...... 27 Lonely Collective ...... 29 Concluding results on Sense of Belonging ...... 29 Collective Goals ...... 30 TRUE’s Collective Goals ...... 31 KF’s Collective Goals ...... 32 NY Collective Goals ...... 33 Lonely Collective Goals ...... 34 Conclusion of Collective Goals ...... 35 Personal Goals ...... 35 TRUE’s Personal Goals ...... 36 KF’s Personal Goals ...... 37 NY’s Personal Goals ...... 38 Lonely’s Personal Goals ...... 40 Conclusion of Personal Goals ...... 40 Discussion: The Eight Benefits of Joining an Online Collective ...... 42 1 Identity Building ...... 42 2 Addressing the Cost of Uncertainty ...... 44 3 Closer to Artists and Fans ...... 46 4 No need for geography ...... 47 5 Offers a Safe Space (Sense of Belonging) ...... 48 6 Creates a family, friends, and a team ...... 50 7 Growing an Audience ...... 51 8 Potential for personal goal achievement ...... 53 The failed case: ...... 54

4 Discussion on theoretical implications ...... 56 Managerial Implications ...... 58 Is the online collective right for all artists? ...... 59 Critique of findings with suggestions for future inquiry ...... 60 Works Cited ...... 61 Appendix ...... 65

5

Abstract The motivation for this research is due to the researchers own interest in forming an online collective. For, in recent years the music industry has witnessed severe changes due to the Internet, whether it be the halving of music sales, disintermediation within the supply chain, or the oversaturated marketplace. These changes are the consequence of Web 2.0 where fans listen to music for free, and artists have easy access to production and distribution - turning an abundant population of musicians into DIY artists. Much of the previous literature covers the perimeters of artistic collaboration, however, not in a digital scope. Therefore, this research intends to ask the question of “What are the benefits of joining an online collective?” With the question in mind, the research focuses on eight interviews ranging from four collectives. From these interviews, transcripts were made, which were the initial The transcripts were then analyzed using both an inductive thematic analysis and a deductive analysis from a set of sub-questions that became apparent after a re-evaluation of the literature was combined with the initial thematic analysis. The sub-questions were; how does the online collective create a sense of belonging; how are the collective’s goals being achieved; and how are the individual’s goals being achieved? After the results were analyzed, eight benefits were discovered using the literature and the results of the deductive analysis. These eight benefits were identity building; addressing the cost of uncertainty; closer to artists and fans; no need for geography; offers a safe space; creates family, friends and a team; growing an audience; potential for personal goal achievement. These results highlight the benefits of joining an online collective and can be used both for managers and researchers to understand further the intricate dynamics of the importance an online collective is for the web-based online DIY artists.

6 Introduction “Music labels, as we know them, will disappear and their role will change to conform to the new structure of the industry” (Parikh, 1999, p. 3). Over the last 17 years, global music sales have nearly halved and declined by 11.6 billion US dollars (IFPI , 2016). The decline in music sales are due to the disruption of the music industries supply chain, especially amongst distributors (Bernardo, 2015). The disruption in distribution was the result of the ‘mp3 crisis’, where the peer-to-peer file sharing of copyrighted material led to a decline in music sales of 15% in a 2-year span at the beginning of the century (Hracs, 2012). At the same time, the cost of recording, reproducing, and distributing music was in decline, giving rise to the “bedroom- producer.” (Hesmondhalgh, 1998) These bedroom-producers are self-dependent musicians, who “are making extensive use of home studios and tools and platforms available online” (Bernardo, 2015, p. 1). These tools and platforms give them access to “financing, collaborators, management, marketing, distribution, and direct communication with fans” (Bernardo, 2015, p. 1). With the tools at hand, the bedroom-producer can use a Do-It-Yourself approach through pro-activism and self- direction to produce and distribute music. (Atkinson, 2006) A popular go-to platform for music distribution is SoundCloud due to its free service, ease of use, and over 175 million users (Staff, 2016 ). SoundCloud is the fourth largest online music streaming service in the US, with a market share of 11%1. An estimated 154 million Americans spend an average of 14 hours a week listening to digitally streamed audio (Edison Research; Triton Digital, 2017). Of the top 10 music audio streaming services, SoundCloud is the only one to be considered a social networking site – meaning the content is user-generated (Sherman & Steve, 2010). The unique attribute for SoundCloud is their interactive features of following users and the liking, commenting, reposting, and messaging of audio. There is, however, a drawback which arises when such a platform exists: anyone can become an artist (Hesmondhalgh, 1998). Throughout the entire creative industry, artists compete because of a high degree of demand uncertainty and an oversaturated marketplace (Peltoniemi, 2015). Therefore, the creation of a platform such as SoundCloud welcomes more artist into the already oversaturated marketplace. With over 175 million users all capable of uploading audio files, how is it possible that a single bedroom-producer can get a decent audience reach? One possible solution to this problem is to adopt a “Do-It-Together” approach.

1 Pandora 34%, Spotify 18%, iHeartRadio 13%, Apple Music 8%

7 Do-It-Togetherness (DIT) is a proposed reconstruction of the Do-It-Yourself model, and it is a proactive desire to work together through resource sharing to achieve a common goal (Mcgee, 2011). According to McGee’s (2011) work, artistic collaborations can inspire and enhance ones’ artistic capabilities through shared learning. Meanwhile, Alexio (2015), discusses the creation of the DIT movement in the 1980’s Portuguese metal scene which was started by artists gravitating toward epicenters that were geographically constrained. With the age of Web 2.0 artists should now be able to transcend borders and gain access to other artists and share information at almost zero the cost (Graham, Burnes, Lewis, & Langer, 2004). This study will focus on researching independent artists on SoundCloud and their means of working together. These independent artists come together to form a collective, a branded SoundCloud page, where the individual artist can contribute their music for an altruistic motive of growing together. In result, the focus of this research is on answering the question of: “What are the benefits of joining an online collective?” This research question was answered with the participation of eight interviewees from four various online music collectives from SoundCloud. The research was conducted in an exploratory manner built off from previous research focusing on DIY artists, music genre evolution, and social capital. This literature was able to construct the interviews in a semi- structured fashion and after the interviews were transcribed a thematic analysis was done using an inductive method. After the initial themes were identified, a review of the literature was done to formulate the three sub-questions which are; how does the online collective create a sense of belonging; how are the collective’s goals being achieved; and how are the individual’s goals being achieved? These sub-questions were used for a deductive re-evaluation of the transcripts. From both the literature and the interviews, a series of 8 benefits of joining a collective was created: 1) Identity building: At the core of each collective lies an identity, in which each collective member can fallback on when their identity is at risk of diffusion. 2) Addressing the cost of uncertainty: Due to the high costs in the music industry, DIY artists are able to share their unique abilities and fan bases to mitgate and share the risk of partaking in the music industry. 3) Closer to artists and fans: The collective offers a platform for fans to discover new artists. Meanwhile artists are able to connect both with other artists and fans with the collective acting as an initial intermediary.

8 4) No need for geography: Much of the previous DIY artistic communities address that geography plays a crucial role in both collaboration and genre evolution. However, a collective creates an epicenter in the digital landscape and creates opportunities for a artists to extent into new marketplaces. 5) Offers a safe space: Collectives provide a place where stability can be apparent and collaboration provides a place which prevents mental breakdown or identity diffusion. 6) Creates family, friends, and a team: An apparent theme in the collective is that there is a shared consciousness of kind. This aids in members being able to trust one another which results in the betterment of the individual’s artistic creations – through acceptance of criticism. 7) Growing an audience: There is a mutual win-win when artists are able to bring new fans to the collective and the collective is able to bring new fans to the artists. 8) Potential for personal goal achievement: At the individual level, a collective dependent on their own goals, can aid an artist in being able to achieve their personal goal of getting their music heard, improving their music, or increasing chances of live performances. The practical relevance of this study is to provide insights into various approaches to organizing and managing a DIY artistic community. This research intends to build on the theories around communities and organized networks in the digital landscape. To answer the question of “What are the benefits of joining an online collective?” This study is structured as follows: The literature review which will cover the conditions of the independent artist in the creative industries and the music industries. Then followed by why do musicians adopt a do-it-yourself approach, then it will lead to why musicians would do-it- together, followed by what a sense of belonging means and its impact on goal achievement. The second segmentation of this research will focus on the methodology and the reasoning for using multiple case study approach with four different collectives, with eight members adopting various roles within the collective. To conclude, the data analysis and discussion is presented and includes the implications and limitations of the study.

9 Literature Review In the last section, it was briefly introduced the significant market size that SoundCloud currently maintains. This chapter will highlight all the literature needed to understand the functions of the independent artists to collaborate with other independent artists. “The Struggle is Real in the Music Industry” – An Artist It is important to recognize that the creative industries differ from other industries and that this segment will cover the problems that artist face within the creative industries, more specifically the music industry. Peltoniemi (2015) states that “Cultural industries are those that produce experience goods with considerable creative elements and aim these at the consumer market via mass distribution.” She claims that creative elements are to serve the goal of “identity building,” which is the process an individual or a group goes through to create a sense of belonging (Paujik, 2014). The reasoning for the identity building process is that these cultural goods are intended to evoke feelings and create strong emotional ties to the consumers (Peltoniemi, 2015). Peltoniemi’s (2015) notions derive from Caves’ (2003) description of the cultural industry, which focuses on the constant uncertainty - this is known as the “nobody knows” paradigm. Just as Peltoniemi (2015) highlights from Caves’ (2003) “nobody knows” paradigm, the cultural goods, or experience goods, are produced prior to consumption. Which results in an artist’s “ability to predict the audience’s perception of quality is minimal” (Caves, 2003, p. 74). Peltoniemi (2015) built off of Caves (2003) idea that consumer’s perception of cultural goods is heavily influenced by their experience with the good. To achieve a successful experience, the good must meet the consumer’s desired expectation (Wu, 2013). If the experience does not meet the expectations of the consumer, then they cannot relate to the cultural good. Then the consumer will most likely deem the good little of value, in result lowering the consumer’s demand for the future products from the specific producer (Wu, 2013) (Caves, 2003). Caves (2003) goes on to declare that producers have knowledge of the success of their former creations. However, the pre-release of cultural goods have a high degree of demand uncertainty due to the ever-changing demand of the consumer (Wu, 2013). To add to this high degree of uncertainty, the creative industry has an oversupply of artists; therefore there is not enough demand for all the artists (Peltoniemi, 2015). Peltoniemi’s (2015) modified version of the ‘nobody knows’ paradigm emphasizes the importance of mass distribution which can be achieved through economies of scale. The . The

10 reasoning for a business to adopt such economies of scale is to ease the demand uncertainty that was previously mentioned. For example in Dahl’s (2009) research, it highlights that the demand uncertainty must be eased because “only 10% of major label releases are profitable, yet they are so profitable that they are used to finance the remaining 90% that generate losses” (Dahl, 2009, p. 17). To be able to achieve this degree of economies of scale large capital is required (Porter, 1979). Therefore the costs associated with the high degree of uncertainty, and the needs for economies of scale, have incentivized artists to sign unfavorable contracts with record labels – which also may lead to an artist sacrificing their artistic integrity (Dahl, 2009) (Mol & Wijnberg, 2007) (Bradshaw & Holbrook, 2007). As mentioned in the introduction, music sales have nearly halved since 17 years ago – due to the world-wide-web. Because of this decline, record labels are showing signs of hesitation in signing new artists. Therefore, an artist must demonstrate themselves popular on the internet before a record label is willing to invest in them (Dahl, 2009). Meanwhile, the consequence of artists demonstrating themselves worthy to labels has led them to adopt a Do- It-Yourself, DIY, attitude (Hracs, 2012) (Dahl, 2009) (Bernardo, 2015). In the next segment of this literature review, it will be discussed about the current conditions in the music industries and why it has propagated a DIY culture. Why Do-It-Yourself? Traditionally, the Do-It-Yourself attitude originates from the idea that a person who has spare time and is aiming for a desired outcome - that is otherwise not achievable – that they take a proactive approach to achieving this desired outcome (Atkinson, 2006). Oliver and Green (2009) define a DIY artist as one “that inhabits a local music scene and has a strong ethic that relates [to the] ideals of being creative and having fun whilst being self-sufficient at the same time.” However, Oliver and Green’s (2009) focus was on DIY artists in their local music scenes – and they only cover that the internet “has swung the balance of power away from the Majors quite dramatically.” (Oliver & Green, 2009, p. 7) To understand the reasoning behind this shift in power, it is essential to briefly summaries the music industry that has bred this ‘Do-It-Yourself’ culture. The traditional supply chain of the music industry, from top to bottom consists of; composing, lyrics, performing, publishing, recording, reproduction, distribution, and retailing (Mol, Wijnberg, & Carroll, 2005). As the cost of recording equipment declined in the late 90s, the term ‘bedroom-studio’ was coined; which is a home studio where the ‘bedroom-producer’ can create their recordings. (Hesmondhalgh, 1998) Shortly after this time, Parikh (1999) made

11 the bold and accurate prediction that the Internet would become the direct and most efficient medium for the promotion, merchandising and distribution of music. Since the ‘bedroom- studio’ and Parikh’s (1999) work, artists have been, independently, vertically integrating throughout the supply chain (Bernardo, 2015). Dahl’s (2009) qualitative research led him to the conclusion that an artist who can make a recording and distribute music successfully using their laptop in an apartment, can potentially make do financially. Since today’s music distribution “is no longer controlled by marketing campaigns, but from the musical and cultural needs and interests of [online] users” (Breen, 2004, p. 80). This shift is accredited to the internet’s evolution into Web 2.0, where user- generated content is the predominant feature, allowing for artists and listeners to interact closer through direct downloads of content and feedback loops (Sherman & Steve, 2010). Imagine the previously mentioned and traditional supply chain as a long series of bridges connecting an artist to its listeners through various intermediaries. Meanwhile, the Web 2.0 has built a new, shorter, bridge – between artists and listeners - and on this new bridge, independent musicians have easier access to “financing, collaborators, management, marketing, distribution, and direct communication with fans” (Bernardo, 2015, p. 1). With a shorter bridge, there are fewer intermediaries required to connect artists with listeners. Meaning the previously mentioned need for economies of scale has reduced – simultaneously reducing the cost to enter the marketplace (Breen, 2004). In result, this further empowers artists to become a self-efficient artist - or in applicable terminology a DIY artist (McLean, Oilver, & Wainwright, 2010) (Oliver & Green, 2009). Graham et al. (2004) claim, due to the connectivity introduced by information communications technology, anyone can connect across the globe at “almost zero the cost, without constraints on the richness of information” (p. 1089). The Internet allows for artists to connect and exchange sources of inspiration and user-generated content (Graham, Burnes, Lewis, & Langer, 2004) (Hracs, 2012) (Sherman & Steve, 2010). In McLean et al.’s (2010) research focusing on communications between DIY artists and their fans, it discovered that because of “social networking sites, blogs, websites and so on, [it allowed for the DIY artist to] have the headspace to think clearly and precisely, [and] to consider their “brand image” and what they wish to communicate without interference, censorship and corporate remodeling” (p. 1368). However, McLean et al. (2010) did state after deeper analysis “that a true power shift has not taken place” (p. 1368) in favor of the DIY artists - comparatively to the record labels. McLean et al.’s (2010) concluding remarks is that “Independent musicians may indeed learn to harness the power of information communications technologies” (p. 1375). Moreover,

12 these information communication technologies have allowed for DIY artists to come out “of the oppression of [the] late-twentieth century into a new time for collaboration and optimism” (McLean, Oilver, & Wainwright, 2010, p. 1375). This “new time for collaboration” amongst DIY artists can be found on SoundCloud,2 at the individual level they are DIY artists. However, when they collaborate and create a shared identity, they dub themselves a collective. With the mentioned literature regarding the technologies available through the world wide web, these online collectives are the consequence of the easy access to these information communication technologies. Taking DIY to the Next Level – by Doing-It-Together! In McGee’s (2011) research about remixing jazz culture, she highlights how artists in the 80’s began operating in “loosely organized collectives.” (pp. 73) She proposes that a collective of DIY artists, that are partaking in a movement, and describes it as “a desire to work together by sharing spaces, resources, networks and artistic and professional acumen” (pp. 66). Alexio (2015) emphasizes that DIY artists throughout contemporary history collaborate to share resources, but most importantly that when they do so, they gravitate toward cultural “epicenters.” Alexio (2015) presents these “epicenters” as geographically constrained environments - such as Utrecht, NL, which was studied in McGee’s (2011) work. However, this research will look into the possibility of whether these ‘epicenters’ can be found on the world wide web. For previous literature states that ‘bedroom-producers’ can gain access to resources with the aid of Web 2.0 (Hesmondhalgh, 1998). The Web 2.0, as mentioned earlier, is the primary tool for collaborative efforts giving access to other artists and consumers (Breen, 2004). This research focuses on collectives, which according to the literature can be defined as a group of individual members contributing resources (time, finance, content, ideas, and inspiration) in an effort to help one another achieve homogeneous, yet vague, goals (Mcgee, 2011) (Lena, 2012) (Aleixo, 2015) (Silver, Lee, & Childress, 2016) (Agneessens & Wittek, 2012). These individual members, according to Lena (2012), often share their concerns over the current state of music; therefore they desire a homogeneous end state. However, she highlights artists who participate in a new movement often have vague goals because members lack consensus with one another (Lena, 2012).

2 A social media site focusing on audio content.

13 In the context of music, these collaborative efforts attempt to bring awareness to the idea that their art is different from that of mass-produced cultural goods. The literature gives examples of the upbringing of various music genres such as the UK’s punk scene or Detroit’s techno underground (Lena, 2012) (Fernandez & Iazzetta, 2015) (Barbosa & Bittencourt, 2015) (Kühn, 2015). Therefore, a consequence of collaborative efforts is that there is a shared identity that arises as a genre. (Fernandez & Iazzetta, 2015) (Barbosa & Bittencourt, 2015). More importantly, the shared identity is created when the artists strive to find a common platform in reaching a general audience (Lena, 2012) (Mcgee, 2011). The common platform studied is the collective itself, which acts as a branded distributer of the independent DIY artist on SoundCloud. Therefore, this research intends to ask the question of “What are the benefits of joining an online collective?” In order to answer this question, sub-questions have been developed and will be addressed below. Sense of Belonging (Friends, Family, & Team) It is important to discuss the literature behind communities and their creation of shared identity. Since these collectives act as a community with “those in which actors share identity in a community or have some basis for a shared bond” (Biggart & Delbridge, 2004, p. 41). earlier, It is believed that a shared bond is the first requirement for establishing a community. This bond is referred to as we-ness, or consciousness of kind, which “is the intrinsic connection that members feel toward one another, and the collective sense of difference from others not in the community” (Muniz & O'Guinn, 2001, p. 413). This we-ness is established through social interaction, which is crucial in order to build a shared identity. Through social interaction, there is an intent to talk, exchange, and cooperate and coordinate to achieve a “shared vision” (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004, p. 11). In Moran and John-Steiner’s (2004) secondary research, they believe that collaboration affects a creator’s identity and offers protection against physiological breakdowns. These collaboration can also provide a support system in the times of “uncertainty, ambiguity, and challenge of the creative path” (p. 16). Their research concludes that the two primary factors of creative collaborative work are sharing and trust. The idea of sharing is regarding the distributed responsibilities upon an individual’s specialization. Meanwhile, trust remains the foundation of the collaboration, which allows for a long-term relationship – which often ensues in friendships (Moran & John- Steiner, 2004). Casey’s (1999) work identifies the development of the sense of belonging to an organization’s culture. In her research on corporations, she isolates employee’s usage of the

14 terminology associated with team and family. Much similar to the constructed definition of the aforementioned ‘collective,’ she states that the word “team evokes references to cooperation and sharing of skill and labor toward attainment of shared goals” (Casey, 1999, p. 156). In Casey’s field observation of these family-like organization cultures, employees believed that their self-development relied on their self-fulfillment and identity within the organization. Which in turn, results in a “sense of involvement, commitment, and empowerment.” Casey’s (1999) research ultimately concludes that identifying collaborators as a team or family can create a sense of belonging – creating a happier and productive employee. Diefenbach and Sillince (2011), built off of Casey’s (1999) discoveries and pieced together various literature to identify a network organization as one that is the most promising for a hierarchy-free type of organization. This is due to the collective responsibility of individual members’ status and their perception of a community which welcomes open collaboration (Diefenbach & Sillince, 2011). In conclusion, the first sub-question has been formulated “how does the online collective create a sense of belonging?" This sub-question arises from the idea that a community is founded on a shared bond, and cemented in the sense of we-ness (Biggart & Delbridge, 2004) (Muniz & O'Guinn, 2001). This we-ness in an artistic DIY community can create a support system against the uncertainty of the industry and enhance the collaboration process. These artistic communities offer stability for “collaboration [and] can provide a safety net against mental breakdown or identity diffusion.” (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004, p. 16). In these communities, they will refer to one another as fellow friends, family members, or teammates (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004) (Casey, 1999). These identifiers increases an individual’s confidence in an open collaboration which is encouraged through criticism and inspiration (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004) (Diefenbach & Sillince, 2011). However, all the literature mentioned in this section fails to observe how these communities can function within the digital scope. For naturally the internet connects individuals, yet in an impersonal fashion. Therefore, it posses a barrier to creating this sense of we-ness. A Win-Win – Goal achievement These artistic DIY communities function primarily on social capital. Social capital is a complex form of capital that is intangible and not created by a single individual; it emphasizes one’s reliance on one or more additional individuals. Within these grouping of individuals, they share their human capital – knowledge, and skills obtained – and their tangible capital in a coordinated effort (Coleman, 1988) (Coleman, Social Capital, 1990). In brief the term capital

15 refers to value; meanwhile, social capital means the value of these social relationships. Therefore, to no surprise, social capital can be found within social networks, and as for the literature surrounding the collaborative efforts of DIY communities it highlights social networks as a central force behind a ‘win-win’ for all the acting individuals (Coleman, Social Capital, 1990) (Mcgee, 2011) (Aleixo, 2015) (Agneessens & Wittek, 2012). Due to the natural collaborative motives to achieve shared goals of interest, artistic communities encourage altruistic collaboration (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004) (Mcgee, 2011) (Lena, 2012). According to the literature surrounding social capital and social networks, this multi-person coordination require trust, reciprocity, and collaboration (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004) (Pretty, 2003) (Agneessens & Wittek, 2012). In these coordinated efforts, trust is a fundamental component and can be found in the literature regarding communities and the non-contractual workplace (Pretty, 2003) (Onyx & Bullen, 2000). Members of communities partake in non-contractual agreements in the forms of exchange with the intention of sharing resources, such as their human capital and physical capital, to reduce costs (Pretty, 2003). These exchanges require inter-dependable individuals, and they must be trusted for their dependability (Pretty, 2003). Pretty (2003) observes trust in a farming community and states that “instead of having to invest in monitoring others, individuals are able to trust them to act as expected. This saves money and time” (p. 9). Another dimension of trust introduced by Moran and John-Steiner (2004), is that trust is essential to collaboration for it welcomes open negotiation, criticism, true sharing, and long-term-ness despite the uncertainty of the creative industries. With trust in others being the consequence of this social structure, individuals’ are motivated by the exchange in reciprocity (Pretty, 2003). Reciprocity is an additional feature of social capital, and it is known not to be part of the agreement in a non-contractual transaction “but [rather] a combination of short-term altruism [for] long-term self-interest (Taylor, 1982)” (Onyx & Bullen, 2000, p. 24). Reciprocity is to be found in a community because individuals will dedicate their own resource, such as their human capital and physical capital, for the ‘greater cause.’ In return, they will expect “that this kindness will be returned at some undefined time in the future in case of need” (Onyx & Bullen, 2000, p. 24). Onyx & Bullen (2000) acknowledge that this self-interested motive can be in the greater interest of the community due to the natural cooperativeness of the coordinated efforts in social capital. Cooperation arises when trust and reciprocity become the ‘rule of the game’ for the community (Pretty, 2003). Cooperation is essential “to liberate resources” (Pretty, 2003, p. 9) and encourage further collaborations. However, when there is no formal structure to the

16 organization and a low degree of trust and reciprocity, the overall motive in cooperation will decline (Onyx & Bullen, 2000). Therefore, it is essential to establish trust through reciprocity to cooperate in order to a have effective coordinated efforts (Agneessens & Wittek, 2012). In conclusion, this section briefly covers the importance of social capital and its importance to goal achievement in a coordinated effort. In a coordinated effort, cooperation is essential and provides an unspoken framework to be followed (Pretty, 2003). Cooperation is built on trust and reciprocity. Trust being that it consists of respect for another person’s different perspective, as well as, confidence in their ability to contribute to the shared goal (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004). Meanwhile, reciprocity can be identified as short-term altruism that is cemented in long-term self-interest. Therefore, two sub-questions were created from the literature focusing on social capital and social-networks with its focus on balance between short-term altruism and long-term self-interest. These questions are; “how are the collective’s goals being achieved?” and “how are the individual’s goals being achieved?”

17 RESEARCH METHOD Aim of the Study The aim of this research was to explore how the benefits of joining an online collective benefits all of its members. The literature review identified trends that could be found in collectives of individuals that are found offline. The Literature of the offline collective world was compared to the results from the online collective world. The sub research objective that originates from the main aim is to explore whether online collectives were partaking in the identity building process. From this identity building process of DIY artist communities, it was known that there lies collective altruism that coincides with the individual’s self-interest. Therefore, the other sub research objective was to explore the collective goals of the networked organization and the personal goals of the individuals who make up the collective. With the aims of the study acknowledged, this paper will proceed to cover the research approach used to address the aim of this study. Research Approach The research technique used in this thesis was a multiple case study approach with the reason being that new and perceptive information was to be discovered (Yin R. K., 2008). The case study method “explores a real-life, contemporary bounded system (a case) or multiple bounded systems (cases) over time, through detailed, in-depth data collection” (Creswell, 2013, p. 97). For this research, the researcher conducted an investigation into an ongoing phenomenon that has not necessarily been observed in the digital scope. The multiple case study research method can comprise of either qualitative or quantitative data or both (Baxter & Jack, 2010). This research focused on only qualitative data; the data was collected through Skype3 interviews. The reasoning for this form of qualitative data was because there was a significant aspect to be observed regarding the subject’s motives and emotions toward joining the collective. In addition, Skype allowed for the researcher to reach parts of the world otherwise unreachable. The intention of using interviews was to make observations through in-depth questioning. The reasoning for such in-depth question was to obtain constructive results that otherwise could not be adequately acquired (Yin R. K., 2008). Crabtree & Miller (1999) and Yin’s (2008) (1994) work highlights the importance of constructivism in the qualitative research process. Crabtree & Miller (1999) explain that the origins of this form of research deviates from hermeneutics and phenomenology. And that

3 Skype is an online platform which allows for face-to-face audio and visual sharing in real time.

18 constructivism emphasizes the dependence on the researcher’s perspective. For it was important that the researchers perspective was used for he “recognizes the importance of the subjective human creation of meaning, but doesn’t reject outright some notion of objectivity” (Crabtree & Miller, 1999, p. 10). In regard to this research, the researcher was able to apply their own perspective, from both experience as an artist and academic. From this pre- constructed perspective, it was used as a unique tool to aid in constructing the underlying meaning of the subjects of the study – this is known as constructivism. Furthermore, this subjective constructivism requires the researcher and the subjects to collaborate tightly. Due to tight collaboration, and the researcher’s prior understanding, this research resulted in the subjects reveling their detailed perspective of the collective (Crabtree & Miller, 1999). In order to achieve the subject’s own perspective, it was important for the individual to feel comfortable. Therefore, warm-up questions were used. The intended outcome was to receive the artist’s personal experience with the collective. For the personal experience was the perspective needed to answer “What are the benefits of joining an online collective?” Ultimately, the intended outcome of this research was to answer this exact question. How this was made possible will be discussed through the next sections related to the participants and the procedure and data analysis. Participants The current literature allowed for various possible outcomes to result from the interviews. Therefore, the interviews consisted of multiple online music collectives and various members with different roles within these collectives. It was important to observe multiple collectives to understand each collective’s goals, ambitions and strategy. Meanwhile, it was important to interview individual members to see if their feelings, ambitions, and goals align with the overall consensus of their fellow members of the collective. In order to conduct the research, there was purposive selection with criteria to ensure that the selected interviewees was going to be able to provide the appropriate information (Teddlie & Yu, 2007). The research used a customized list of criteria for the members of the SoundCloud collectives, where at least two of these criteria was met: a) A long-time member from the beginning or near the beginning b) A member who recently joined c) A member who contributes non-sonic creations. (Eg. A digital artist, Photographer, Event Planner, Manager, A&R) d) A member who contributes either production or vocals.

19 e) A member who is part of two or more collectives. The eight interviewees were from four different collectives all meeting two or more of the criteria previously mentioned. Meanwhile, the Collective’s degree of activity: was broken into four categories to determine how active the collective is on their SoundCloud: Dormant: a collective that has not been active in over three months. Low: a collective that posts a track once or twice a month with little to no repost activity. Medium: A collective that posts two to six tracks a month, and reposts 1 or more tracks a week. High: a collective that posts tracks weekly, and reposts multiple tracks a week – if not daily Table 1: Specifications of the Sample

Data Collection Tools The interviews were conducted through skype calls, “a viable research medium for overcoming issues around access and distance” (Hanna, 2012). The interviews were recorded using a recording software tool called Audacity. To insure the highest quality of recorded audio an extension called SoundFlower was installed to directly route the audio from Skype’s output into audacity. Then from the audio recordings mp3 files were made for the transcribing process. While playing the mp3 files, the researcher would transcribe the audio into a word document. Once all the interviews were in their individual word document, they were then opened into Atlas.ti where they would be used for the coding process. Procedure and Data Analysis The research procedure began with a wide range of literature regarding communities, social capital, genre evolution and DIY. After literature was reviewed, open-questions were created to help steer the intended direction of research. In order to, ask these questions 61 individual artists were contacted via 215 e-mails, 18 Twitter messages, and 15 SoundCloud messages - totaling 248 messages all in regards to an initial interview. (Appendix 1) From the 61 individuals, a total of eight interviews were conducted, ranging from twenty minutes to one and a half hours.

20 Before each interview, a brief introduction was presented to the interviewee about the researcher. Once the interviews began, “warm up” questions were asked regarding the interviewee’s age, work, education, in order to obtain demographic data and most importantly get the interviewee into an interview state of mind (Harvard ). Once the interview state of mind was underway essential questions were asked to obtain an outline about what the collective embodied. This then lead to a series of more in-depth questions regarding their experience with the collective. After receiving their experience with the collective, follow up questions about their specific comments were asked. In order to maintain a semi-structured interview a guide of key questions was constructed, prior to the interview. (Appendix 2) Each interview was seen as an individual case. These interviews acted as an individual account of the experience that the user had with their appropriate collective. After the interview was recorded, the transcript for it was shortly thereafter created into a Microsoft Word document. Once the transcripts were completed, the word document would be analyzed individually with an inductive coding process in order to identify themes – through observations of repetitiveness (Bernard & Ryan, 2010). The analysis used both an inductive and a deductive approach. Due to the researches exploratory nature, an inductive approach to each individual case was applied first in order to extract key themes. For one of the most crucial techniques in code analysis is the emergence of repetitive themes (Bernard & Ryan, 2010). After repetitive themes were identified, the similarities and differences among each case was used for the cross case analysis – these similarities and differences techniques are proposed by Bernard & Ryan (2010) and are intended to keep the research focus on the data rather than on theoretical trips. Therefore, after each case was analyzed in an inductive manner there was a total code quantity of 170 codes with 401 quotations. After the realization that 170 codes, with the majority consisting of only a frequency score between one-to-three, a re-evaluation was conducted. Eventually grouping and eliminating codes in order to achieve 59 codes relating to a selection of a few themes. (Appendix 3) After the themes were finalized, a quick overview of the present literature was done. The codes were evaluated to formulate sub questions, using the literature, with specific codes in preparation for a deductive re-evaluation of the transcripts. Unlike the initial inductive approach which focused on each individual as a case, the finalized deductive approach focused on each collective as a case. Once the deductive coding process was completed. (Appendix 4) The codes were linked to formulate a relationship. Then a cross-case analysis pursued. Using the codes that were identified from these sub-questions matrixes were created to help both the

21 researcher and the reader identify these similarities. The cross-case analysis became apparent that it was the ideal final methodology to identify the similar factors between the different cases. Once the data was interpreted and summarized, the 8 benefits to joining an online collective were discovered. Quality of Research Baxter and Jack’s work (2010) highlights the factors of trustworthiness, which is achievable through credibility, transferability, dependability, and conformability. To achieve creditability, this research upholds that the research question was clear and that the research method chosen was of best fit (Russell, Gregory, Ploeg, DiCenso, & Guyatt, 2005). The research findings are plausible for the data collected has depth and a “thick description” (Tracy, 2010, p. 840). To accomplish both transferability and creditability, the research method adopted was the common practice of multiple-case study - since the research consisted of multiple and varying perspectives (Tracy, 2010). To achieve transferability, the multiple case study has the intent on providing a detailed description of implementation at a practical level – which is done in the discussion and conclusion (Tracy, 2010). In order to ensure that this research is dependable, it took into account design change that would occur through the research process (Graneheim & Lundman, 2004). Of which there was changes in the analysis from an inductive analysis to a deductive analysis, this was discussed in the previous section. There was also a request for anonymity from a few members – therefor fake names were given to the collectives and their members using rap name generator. Meanwhile, dependability was achieved through multiple re-evaluations of the transcripts, and when they were set into the qualitative analysis software. The software ensured that the researcher took note and kept track of the evolution of the research and the discoveries made. Lastly, confirmability was achieved through the objective language in the questions stated to the interviewees. The questions were objectively asked with neutrality which allowed the interviewee to steer the direction of the conversation. Meanwhile, aid of fellow researchers’ criticism was kindly taken into account. For under the thesis’ circumstances, confirmation of trustworthiness needs to be, and was, assured through peer and supervisor’s supervision to remove any bias’ present. (Tracy, 2010)

22 Results Since this is a story about how DIY artists that are spread across the globe can form an online collective, this results section will cover the three sub-questions formulated to answer the question of “what are the benefits of joining an online collective?” From the discovery of the benefits of a collective two significant benefits deviated, the first being is that individuals gain a sense of belonging or a sense of “greater purpose” – as stated by M Smirk. Secondly, the greater purpose, or goal, which the artists wish for is to have their music heard – this can be seen as both the collective and individual’s goal. These sub-questions will be answered below. Creating a sense of Belonging Is the collective creating a sense of belonging? These collectives act as communities. There are three crucial identifiers of the community – they act as a family, a group of friends, or a team. Find below a table which indicates the quantity throughout the interviews that the various participants identified themselves or fellow members as part of one of the signaling terminology regarding a community. Table 2: Members and the quantity they identified the collective as either Team, Family, Friends, or Community

The case as addressing the collective as part of a community using the terminology indicated in the matrix above will be done on a collective case base: TRUE Collective In the case of the TRUE collective, they create their sense of belonging to a public sphere. “We've been on discord for almost a year now, with like 500 members… so now anyone that's an artist can come in and join and no longer feel alone.” – M Smirk The TRUE Collective encourages a community bond between fans and artists through a massive group chat on discord, with various forum subject matters related to; news regarding

23 the collective; tips, critics, and inspiration for music production; or general matters such as venting about personal issues, drug use, conspiracies, and more. When asked about how F Killer felt about the collective’s public chat room he stated “A whole group of people here at TRUE - there's a lot of people who have just become part of our big community, and it's almost a family you always see the same people every day and you'll always talk to the same people.” F Killer is identifying his fellow community members as a family. In the effort of verification of the strong usage of the word family, F Killer was asked to confirm his sense of family, and he stated: “I mean, to me at least it's definitely my family.” Therefore, isolating his perception of the collective acting as a family as his own perception, instead of the entire collective identifying as a family. Leaving up to debate whether everyone within the collective perceives this family view. M Smirk, the collective’s founder, strengthens the previous statement and made no reference to the collective as a family, but he rather addresses the collective as a “wonderful community.” When F Killer was asked about the community in regards to how the community has impacted his life, he stated: “I'm like, so inspired and how they have [impacted my life]. Yeah, that's kind of changed my life in my whole Outlook on everything in some ways. So I think it's nice to be able to give that to other people and to be able to have that sort of community.” This community from F Killer’s perspective is a family – which indicates the impact a community such as TRUE collective has. Meanwhile, the collective’s founder perceives it more as a team that started out as friends. “I was finding these artists that I thought was really good, they had a couple of hundred followers so, so I befriended others I just admired.” M Smirk went about first befriending fellow producers before starting the collective. Therefore, M Smirk’s perception of creating a community was based on friends rather than family. His differentiating perception of the community could be due to him occupying a professional and administrative role within the organization, for half the time he does refer to other members whom he collaborates with as being part of a team. Meanwhile, the reasoning for F Killer’s family perception of the community can be due to M Smirk’s own experience and reasoning for finding the collective. For M Smirk wanted to create a community due to his own experience, “I'm coming from my own background and having times of isolation or loneliness and wanting hope, and wanting to continue to live. I knew that there was other people out there like that, so I wanted to give a place where people could meet other people and collaborate with each other communicate and there'd always be kind of like a greater purpose.”

24 Furthermore, F Killer talks further of how he has made “some lasting friendships through collaborations and meeting with different artists.” He expresses that because of his relationship with various members in the collective he has advanced his relationships to the offline world. He states that “Last year, I went up to New York, and I met with a bunch of people and we just like sat in a hotel room making beats. And it was crazy.” I It could be possible that online relationships strengthen the likelihood of offline collaborations. In conclusion, the TRUE collective creates a sense of belonging through the shared experience of having times of loneliness. The collective addresses this loneliness by offering a place for artists to communicate freely about various topics. The collective in F Killer’s case acts as a family, while for M Smirk the collective acts more like a team and group of friends. In the end either person’s perception of the collective signals that they do feel as if they are part of a community. KF Collective Much similar to the dynamics of TRUE collective, KF “is a family. We are like really in tune with each other. Our togetherness is really strong. We’re strong and it’s just a fun place with all of us coming from different places. Teamwork and family is our main thing. We genuinely enjoy each others music” (W Prophet). W Prophet heavily emphasizes the collective’s main priority is teamwork and family. This large sense of intimate community results in a philosophy which W Prophet has adopted in regard to the family; “If something good happens to one of us, it happens to all of us.” The transcendence of this philosophy was observed in the interview with the other member of the collective, E-ratic states “I don't know what I'd be doing right now without KF, because I feel like I'm a part of something.” This goes on to demonstrate the level of depth in regard to how the community has shaped the ‘greater purpose’ of the collective. The analogy of family is apparent in the concept of brotherhood, for W Prophet states the reason why he comments on other artist’s tracks with positive messages is because he believes everyone in the collectives needs “to show all my brothers love.” When asked about how competitive, internally, the collective can be E-ratic states “We are all just friends and joke around with each other. We’re never really serious and we all make good music and push it and support it.” This shows that the individual artists’ egos are in tune with one another, with the intention of having fun. To alleviate physiological draining fun is a key attribute within artistic collaboration. Being never serious and having fun is justified in W Prophet’s belief that “our togetherness is really strong” within the collective.

25 When asked about E-ratic’s opinion on the collective in the introductory round of questions, E-ratic states; “You know KF is the dopest thing I've ever been a part of it's crazy how we're all over the world and like we still get things done like group tracks. And we have the Hangout chats, where we talk like every day. We share like tips experiences and we just joke, it's pretty smooth running and it's the dopest thing ever.” The idea that members within the collective speak everyday further strengthens this community-family paradigm – which was observed in the TRUE collective. The literature may point that collective’s function out of sheer business intentions, however if these collectives were existing out of sheer business, then they may not be communicating as if they were all in the same household. Furthermore, when E-ratic was asked about members who do not contribute to much of the collective he stated “we have people who don't even like show up for months and then they come and share some music then they leave again and it's still all good, so it's pretty relaxed.” Yet, when asked about his opinions on these individuals he states; “people are different. I'm the type of guy, that thinks that's selfish. But like other artists are just different. People are different you know they don't really care whatever.” He tolerates these members as part of the community, yet shows a distastes towards members who do not partake in the reciprocal exchange. When W Prophet was asked about what is important in maintain the community aspect of the collective he states that: “I find it really important to be different and that is why I like KF so much cause we all have a different style… And that is what makes us unique and better because different ideas come together and create something that is incredible.” This idea of being different is what creates such a unique experience for all the members, it allows for an all around community to be established through the welcoming of “different.” Lastly, which was also noticed in the TRUE collective, these two online communities encourage offline behavior. When E-ratic was asked if he has ever meet a member from the collective in person he states “Well I just experienced that something last weekend, so I went out to a different state and did a show all because I knew a guy of KF like that's crazy.” Therefore, creating a relationship online expands one’s social capital that can strengthen the value gained from the relationship in the offline world. In conclusion, KF appears to have a community sense of belonging much similar to that of TRUE collective, with members indicating that they are part of something bigger. Members of KF perceive to be part of a family, team, or a network of friends. And to no surprise, KF members have meet with their ‘team’ or ‘family’ in the offline environment.

26 NY Collective In the case of the NY collective, there was a different approach to creating a sense of belonging. In the initial findings of the collective, the founding member Pupil reached out to then producer, now graphic designer, Gentleman with an inspiring message. Here is Gentleman’s account of the story, “Pupil messaged me, he some how found me. And then he sent me this really inspiring message, which really emphasized the community vibe.” Pupil, similar to the founder of TRUE collective, befriended artists and attempted to have them join the community. Gentleman a person who feels distant from the community, keeps himself at a distance for reasons that he didn’t discuss; “even thou I may not be like a big member of that community, I can see online that there is this big community spirit.” But due to his veteran status he is treated as a senior member of the community. When asked about his communication and relationship with Pupil, Gentleman states he communicates with him “Just like friends to friends like ‘how is it going?’” Gentleman continues on his account with Pupil when Gentleman encountered artistic blocks; “Well, I pretty much stopped producing music now because sort of gave up on it, and like about four or five months he was messaging me “oh, what’s going on, you’re still like having trouble making music?” Now he is always checking in.” The reason for this could lie in Pupil’s emphasized importance on the idea that “Once the artists are invited to the NY team, they are part of the team for life!” Pupil emphasizes in his interview five times that the collective functions as a team. He approaches this team mentality, most likely due to the nature of the collective’s ambitions of wanting to function more like an organization rather than a family-like community. Pupil did after all assign various position titles, and their collective was the only collective interviewed with a set of A&R managers; who’s assignments were to “help approve tracks and connect with artists [and] help handle event planning operations as well.” (Pupil) An interview with the A&R manager led to the insight that the collective requires a pre- screening to see if the collective’s culture meets the needs of the artists and vice versa. Knight states: “We mention the culture and outlook of the collective before we even bring the artist on board. If they are not interested in that culture it probably isn’t the right fit for either of us.” These culture dynamics are prerequisites that insures members who do join the team are intrinsically motivated to push themselves. For in the interview with, the founder, Pupil states that: “We do not have any criteria in order to preserve a spot within the collective.” The

27 reasoning for not having any criteria in maintaining a position in the collective is due to NY’s recruitment prerequisites which are stated below; “Regular releases: this indicates not only is an artist producing regularly and mastering their craft but they are searching and submitting to labels and pages that will release their music for them. Consistent quality: tracks should be consistent in quality across all recent releases, this indicates that their other tracks will be just as good moving forward. This indicates a bright future for the producer as well. Strives to pursue music career: while we support producers of all commitment levels, we can only afford to offer our resources to producers who are looking to pursue a career in music. We put a lot of time and effort in supporting our artists and we need to ensure that our artists are serious about their careers as we could be offering the same support to another artist instead.” The NY collective acts more as a professional music provider, with a community orientation as the second underlying concept, comparatively to the KF and TRUE collectives. There is an emphasis on limited resources and how the community wishes to only support those who are aligned with the organization’s culture. When the NY founder was asked about hosting events he stated: “We're honestly just excited to be out at venues spinning with our friends.” Thus indicating that enjoyment of offline behavior came arise from their online befriending. This here aligns with the consistent theme of online relationships developing into offline relationships. A follow up question was asked in regard to revenue streams from NY events outside of NYC, “I do not ask for any contribution to the NY fund for any events I didn't plan/host. I keep it this way to encourage NY artists in other major cities to team up and host events.” Here, once again, an emphasis on team is constructed, with the avoidance on profits which will be introduced in the later sections. To summarize the NY collective, it creates a sense of belonging through a pre communicated culture. Within this culture it is more about an artists striving to be both a better artist and to strive for a career in music. This collective tends to identify themselves more as a team rather than a family. As Knight states: “NY means the world to me. It means a network of individuals who are dedicated to seeing each other succeed instead of trying to be the next big thing.” The NY has a strong community, with the community focus being on a more professional level comparatively to the other collectives researched. The reasoning for this assumption lies in the administrative roles given to various members and the fact that the collective functions primarily as music provider to its listeners.

28 Lonely Collective The Lonely collective was researched in hopes of understand of how a collective can fail. In this collective there was a lack of sense of belonging. The collective originated as a collective founded by various friends that were artists, with the hopes of cross promoting one another. However, the friendships in the collective showed to be weak. Madman questioned his friendships with fellow collective members at times: “They do not respond and you’re just like ‘What? What? I thought we were friends? And now you’re blowing up and now we don’t talk anymore?’” Madman may now avoid friendships due to his perception that online music friends was a novelty at the beginning of his music career. “Back in the day I’d send people messages like “woah! I really like your music” I like what you did with this and this and here and here. I like to praise them on a certain specific part that I really liked. And then I’d ask them of ‘how did you make that synth?’ That would get me connected with those people. I am a bit out of those early days.” He believes that building online relationships is something that he does not desire, it may be possible that he sees little value in establishing these relationships, relative to his career. Or more likely that he prefers the actual face-to-face relationships over his online relationships. To conclude, Lonely showed no signs of having built a sense of identity. Friendships were questioned and there was a lack of reference to how the collective acts as a community for the artists. This could be one of the reasons the Lonely collective has not been active since over a year. Or another reasoning is that all the individual artists in the collective have such a larg following comparatively to the artists in the other collectives. Meaning that they see no career benefits in having a shared identity. Concluding results on Sense of Belonging The TRUE collective was founded on the principles of helping artists having a place to escape from their loneliness – which explains why they have a public forum where artists and fans can talk about their personal lives. The TRUE collective was identified from its artist as a ‘family,’ meanwhile the founder (a managerial role) identified the collective to act more as a ‘team.’ However, both members believed the collective to have given them a ‘greater purpose’ and the physiological encouragement to live on either metaphorically, as an artist, or literally.4

4 Such subject matters were to personal to dive too deep in and might have deviated from the objectivity of the research.

29 Meanwhile the KF collective shows a bit of an overlap with that of the TRUE collective. The only differing aspect observed is that KF emphasizes on connecting and inspiring one another. The members identified as being part of a ‘family’ and had used strong emotional ties such as love and brother to identify their affection towards one another. In sum, KF is a collective that ‘promotes change’ through ‘diverse’ musical genres, and its members showed an appreciation for the collective’s diversity. While NY, comparatively to the rest, appears to be a far more professional community, with it’s members feeling a more professional sense of belonging through reference of the word ‘team’ and ‘community’. The reasoning for this, is that the collective appears to aspire to function more as a music provider, and has their own record label separate from the collective,. The founder admits to this “NY wasn't originally supposed to be a release platform, rather a place to repost the music by affiliated NY Collective artists.” Therefore, the artist’s sense of belonging is created through their aspiration of becoming a full time musician. Members are friends with one another, but these initiatives are lead by the musicians themselves who all have each other on Facebook – a paraphrased version of Pupil’s account. Lastly, the Lonely collective demonstrated no sense of belonging. Thus, indicating a sense of belonging may be needed for a collective to withstand the test of time. This can be defended by at least one member of each other collective (TRUE, KF, or NY), who either claimed that they are part of something, have a purpose, or that they wouldn’t know where to be without the collective. All three of the up-and-running collectives emphasized that they are part of a team, family, or a friend group. Collective Goals Using Atlas.ti’s “Code Concurrence” tool it was identified that much of the collective goals overlapped with that of the personal goals of individuals. However, the predominate overlap was a focus on reaching audiences, creating a belonging/shared identity (which was previously spoken about) and creating a community. (please refer to the table below) In this next section it will cover each collective’s goals on a collective case bases.

Table 3: The themes in which there is an overlap with collective goals

30 TRUE’s Collective Goals As M Smirk stated in the previous section, regarding creating a sense of belonging, the TRUE collective was founded on M Smirk’s own principles which are related to his experience of “having times of isolation or loneliness and wanting hope, and wanting to continue to live.” Therefore, much of the collective’s priority is on offering a community for artist. Therefore, he created a platform where artists can “meet” and “collaborate” for a “greater purpose.” M Smirk didn’t one day wake up with the concept of a collective in mind, but it rather came from his experience as a DJ. He stated “I was discovering like a bunch of artists that only had a couple hundred followers, they weren't getting more than a couple hundred plays and the music was really good so I was like well shit, I want to help these people! I want to find a way so I can get them heard more.” The idea of getting all the artists he was discovering “heard” became the coinciding goal of the collective. F Killer offers insights into why a collective of DIY artists is ideal for this, “it takes like, a network or Team, it takes a whole bunch of effort” in order for their music to be heard. In M Smirk’s case the idea of getting people ‘heard’ and giving them a ‘community’ coincide. For the community aspect creates a sense of belonging, meanwhile “there's this ability to convert and to inspire [other artists/and fans] and show them there's this music here and this music has meaning and value and purpose and is way undiscovered and these should get heard, so they should get inspired, so It’s really right now just matter like tell the world like hey we're here, we're doing something like look at us, come find us, listen. So that's like where I'm at now, trying to spread my hands and let people know we exist.” The process of reaching an audience however is difficult for it is often dependent on resources. Yet “artist now [do not] need as many resources but you know the record labels are still taking a ton of your money” (M Smirk). When M Smirk was asked about the resources he does have, he mentions that “I have resources to all the music I want, I have resources to all the artists I want, it's amazing if I have a channel and I need music I can pop up my chat… I got music for the rest of the year.” Even though he claims to have many of the resource needed for operating the collective one resource is still limited, due to the hyper competiveness of the music industry. Meanwhile, M Smirk admits “as far as resources that I don't have, I don't have much money like there's not much money to make from this.” In order to obtain revenue, the TRUE collective has started to sell merchandise such as T-shirts and stickers for artists and fans to purchase in order to support the collective. M Smirk also requests from his collective that they contribute in providing feedback to artists who are not apart of the collective. “Since we get so many hundreds of submissions if the user wants to

31 pay a dollar then… that means that we'll listen to the track and we will respond… with feedback like saying hey that mix is too muddy or that synth is really generic. But I really like it because I feel like for a couple dollars as an artist that's not a big price to pay, to get feedback from like a collective.” (M Smirk) F Killer has given insight into TRUE’s potential plans regarding revenue streams he states that they have been discussing about offering music production education. F Killer states; “We'll also have a skype lesson sort of thing where we'll, have various producers do like hour long lessons for certain amount of money. And so most of the money will probably come from that.” In result, this is concluding the revenue concerns in regard to the TRUE collective’s goal. In conclusion, the TRUE collective goals lie in three dimensions. The first being creating a community of artist who are able to collaborate and communicate with one another. The second being that their music can be heard, this is accomplished through gaining more followers for the TRUE collective’s soundcloud page. The third, being a consequence of the second, concerns over the revenue streams, in order to get heard more the collective must have revenue streams to push their channel further – through offline events. KF’s Collective Goals Unfortunately, the founder of KF was unable to partake in this research, but he did recommend interviewees for this research. When W Prophet was asked about the collective’s objectives he stated; “As far as objectives. It’s like that we are a team. KF is a family. We are like really in tune with each other. Our togetherness is really strong. That goes with everything, like us pushing each other. Like when I am reposting from certain people.” This family theme is one of the three identified collective goals in this collective’s case. W Prophet mentions that he needs to show his family ‘love.’ In order to show ‘love’ it is in the form of reposts. These reposts are when one artist shares another artist’s track. W Prophet states the reasoning for showing love is; “You know before I joined the collective I didn’t repost as much. But now I am supporting my fellow friends that do music and I really want to push their music as best as I can and they do the exact same for me... And we both just try to support each other.” The concept of supporting one another is possibly the consequence of the first goal of being a team. To further this finding E-ratic’s opinion on the collective identifies: “Everyone is on the same page and literally just wants to get bigger get more fans and like just help each other like straight up that's all we want.” He continues on later in the interview to state: “we're not big, like we have a lot of members, who are popular but as a

32 collective we're not, we don’t have clout5 as a collective, but individually we do.” E-ratic reveals that by individual members having their own separate audience reach, there is not much of an organizational motive to be no more than a network of friends/family/team. KF acts not as a content provider rather more as a network where artists can meet. Within this network they claim to be a “Global Collective” with a mission statement on their SoundCloud page that states “Promote Change.” The promotion in change lies in the collective’s ideals of “different sounds.” (W Prophet) All in reference to their genre classification and that these different sounds are intended to go against the status quo. For both W Prophet and E-ratic believe that the current state in music is not ideal: W Prophet: “There is a lot of same music. You have like lo-fi and other trendy genres on SoundCloud. It’s a certain genre that everyone goes after. I find it really important to be different and that is why I like KF so much cause we all have a different style. It is not a collective of the same genre of music and I feel like being different really pushes you further because people see that you’re making music not like the person next to you. They can hear that you have a certain feeling or vibe that stands out. And that creates different opportunities.” E-ratic: “Man I don't like where the mainstream is heading, I never have, because that doesn't represent my sound.” In conclusion, three collective goals were identified from KF. The first being that family and their togetherness is priority. A consequence of being part of a family or community is that reaching audiences can be achieved through ‘showing love’ in the form of reposts. While the third is the welcoming of different sounds and going against the status quo of the music industry. NY Collective Goals The NY collective was founded on the principles of bringing “Like-minded producers together to help cross-promote each other and utilize our individual networks to create a larger reach.” (Pupil) The prioritized goal in the NY collective is to reach an audience, and in order to achieve this goal a tactic was adopted by the NY collective, “Artists who release on NY with a free download get a fangate associated with their soundcloud URL. This fangate requires fans to become followers in order to download the files. This directly correlates to follower growth, which is our biggest offering to NY Collective artists.” (Pupil)

5 Audience reach

33 The NY collective wishes to serve the artists, rather than the artist serve the collective – the opposite is often found in a record label.6 NY incentives members to join their collective by offering a large audience reach with professional management. Knight an A&R manager, who is in charge of artist booking states “We support everyone equally and try to make everyone around us thrive.” Knight builds off of this and introduces the second goal of the collective which is a philosophy adopted by the managerial roles of “we don’t take the stance of “we will hurt/use anyone to succeed” which you see in the industry a lot, many people are happy to help.” Knight discusses on how the managerial roles act on reciprocity as “We are dedicated to giving back any help we receive in any way that we can as well.” When interviewing a recruited member, Gentleman, of the NY collective, he tells his story of his inspiring message which he received from the founder, the message “emphasizes this whole like we are all in this together, you chose success so I help you, you help me.” Further expanding on the collective’s importance of reciprocity. Meanwhile, this concept of “we will not use you” adopted by the managers appears to encourage artists to join the collective. It also is a philosophy that translates to the artist in the form of “it’s not about material gain [which is] a thing Pupil has been trying to nail into everyone.” (Gentleman) At this point the NY collective has 3 goals in mind, first help the artists reach an audience, second not to use the artist, and thirdly it’s not about material gain. The reasoning for these three goals is in order to achieve one universal goal of the collective achieving “a betterment of the scene, not the individual.” (Knight) What the collective means by the betterment of the music scene is “to have a go-to place to hear refreshingly innovative tracks that pushed the boundaries of house music.” (Pupil) In conclusion, the NY collective wishes to better the music scene for the listeners by providing refreshingly innovative music. They believe this can be accomplished from the top of the supply chain, starting with the artists by offering a ‘together’ attitude to reach a larger audience. Meanwhile, managers adopt an attitude to not use the artist for material gain. Therefore, encouraging and inspiring artists to join their collective, as the collective is aware growth can be achieved through cross promotion and by adopting a non-individual mentality. Lonely Collective Goals The interview with one of the Lonely demonstrated the reasoning behind how a collective can fail if no collective goals are created. Originally the collective was founded on the intentions that they “were talking to some guy who wanted to start up a collective and he

6 As proclaimed by Knight

34 asked all of us. ‘Hey do you guys want to get on my collective going together?’ So things got a bit weird in the chat we were like fuck this manager guy and took our faith into our own hands.” (Madman) The intention of taking faith into their own hands by asking one another “How about we just Do-it-ourselves?” seemed reasonable to Madman. Madman admits at the reasoning to why the collective was never functioning and that was because the collective was created in spur of the moment. “So we decided let us start-up a collective and share some songs on our Soundcloud. That is were it ended really. We didn’t post anything after a few songs.” The perception of why this occurred is apparent in the confession of “we really weren’t having a scope.” (Madman) This indicates that because no ‘scope’ was created there was nothing to work towards, and as it is known a common bond or shared goal is essential in a community. However, the fault could also lie in the lack of one of the artists adopting a managerial role. “So I do not really know who the owner”(Madman) In the case of Lonely and their collective goals, it is apparent that goals are crucial in making a community withstand the test of time. Therefore this case emphasizes that a collective may fail if there is no prior goals outlined. For as in the three previous cases, it is noticed that goal’s are what creates the structure for the collective and ultimately creates the emphasized sense of belonging. Conclusion of Collective Goals It was discovered that three of the four collectives had an overlap in collective goals. With the first major overlap being that artists’ music needs to be heard and audience growth is priority. Meanwhile the second key overlap is building a community, but each case showed a preference for different goals of community building. TRUE’s community building priority was rooted in the founder’s own experience of being an artists faced with loneliness. Meanwhile, KF acted as a collective focused on building a network of individuals with different genres with the intention of promoting change. In the case of NY, they prioritized building a community for cross promotion and a network of collaborators. As for Lonely, there was no constructed goal in mind, therefore the only collective goals were not identified other than taking matters into their own hand – and the mere act of creating an online collective resulted in nothing. Personal Goals As seen in the table introduced at the beginning of the previous section it was noticed that there was a major overlap between collective goals and personal goals. This section will cover the personal goals and its importance with collective goals. In regards to benefits of

35 joining an online collective personal goal achievement emerges as a theme that many of the artists felt was being accomplished. TRUE’s Personal Goals The reason for the start of the TRUE collective lies in the personal goal of the founder. M Smirk states: “I want these artists get heard. I'm not doing this for a greedy way to like keep these artists mine, I'm doing so they get heard.” M Smirk takes an altruistic approach to the formation of the collective, where much of his personal goals are the goals of the collectives. M Smirk does have two personal goals in mind, with little regard to the collective. The first being as an artist, he is not confident in his music production skills therefore, he set a goal; “if I make a thousand shitty songs, then I'll have more confidence and more knowledge to be able to make the music I know I want to make.” Yet he is faced with conflict as he holds the majority of responsibilities of the collective as an active founder; “I'd spend so much time on TRUE and all these other things that it's hard to have time for [making music] and then when I get time, I get frustrated and fed up and can't do shit. So I don't know it's still a big goal of mine and it's always in the back of my mind” Due to M Smirk’s conflict of restricted time he does have one goal that pertains to his well-being. For he was originally working with an information technologies company, when he was unexpectedly laid-off, which resulted him being able to focus on the collective entirely. He states, “I'm spending eighty-hour work weeks making nothing so, resources I would love to have easier resources to distribution outside of Sound Cloud… there's a bunch of resources I don't have it's like I have all this music and I can kind of get heard but if I had more resources I could really get these artists heard.” He only wishes to support himself with a modest lifestyle. And again he stresses in his own philosophy that it is not about greed, but about having both his and the collective’s music heard. Meanwhile F Killer, a producer from the TRUE collective was asked about his longtime personal goals he states: “before I started producing, before I even got interested in producing. I always wanted to be in a band and do music and I was in a few bands, like I was actually in a pretty serious band for a few years.” Which could possibly signal how the collective is an ideal compromise for such a personal goal. When asked about his personal goals and reasoning for joining the collective F Killer states; “I hope one day to maybe own my own studio, but I guess I can tell that it won’t really work yet. Until then, I want to work my career as an independent artists and keep producing music and hopefully touring do all that.” The TRUE collective allows F Killer to focus on his music career for half the work required, due to the

36 collective’s aid. And when asked if F Killer is accomplishing his goal he continues on with stating that “I’m actually going to be going over to Oregon meet up with M Smirk and all the guys from TRUE Collective. And we're going to be doing a show then too.” This correlates with the offline behavior that is influenced by online relationship building. Most importantly for F Killer, his relation with TRUE collective has now allowed him to travel and perform with and for the TRUE collective brand. Which is all in an effort to pursue his own personal goals of ‘touring.’ When F Killer was asked about his audience reach and how the collective has helped him he comments with; “More with the release is you know I have a lot of help from TRUE collective... It definitely takes a team though for anyone who releases a song. For example, if you’re not not Jay Robb or whoever, you can't just post a song on your SoundCloud like it takes, it takes like, a network or Team, it takes a whole bunch of effort.” His comments focus on the idea that unless you are famous it is difficult to get your music heard and that the collective has aided him in being able to accomplish his other personal goal of having his music heard. To conclude, the collective was founded due to M Smirk’s own personal goal of getting other artists’ music heard and offering them a safe place within the community. From this point, the other member’s personal goal is to be able to get his own music heard as well as being able to have live performances and tour. Of which, F Killer, states that because of the collective he will be performing a show in Portland, Oregon - 4,000 kilometers away from his own hometown of Washington D.C. This indicates that the collective is allowing for F Killer to pursue his own personal goal. KF’s Personal Goals In regard to the KF collective and the individual members of the collective. E-ratic states that “I don't like where the mainstream is heading, I never have, because that doesn't represent my sound, but I still think it's very possible for a guy with my sound to make it, at a respectable level.” Due to E-ratic’s avant-garde attitude toward the current rap music scene, he only seeks a ‘respectable level’ which lies in the size of his fan base. When asked a follow-up question about his fan base he states: “Yeah I'm happy with what I got like I want more but I'm not going to complain because I remember where I was at a year or two ago never thinking I'd get to the point I am now so. I'm always happy.” The reason for this contentment is because E- ratic believes “guys like me will never be as big as we want to be but I think rap music is definitely open if you have skill I think you can definitely get some fans.” It was later asked if

37 E-ratic partakes in any marketing or branding strategy he states; “I don't have any skills at all in that department… I also want to like market, I just don’t, I haven’t and I don’t know how.” Therefore, E-ratic desires to be marketed, however his skills are not there to be able to achieve this, thus he is a hopeful reliant of the collective’s ability to help him grow. Meanwhile, W Prophet’s personal goals is regarding to how he behaves as an artist, he states “I try to do different sounds for the most.” W Prophet was asked a follow up question regarding earning money if that was in his future, he stated: “I have definitely plans of putting them on sale. I’ve had people tell me “ah yeah I’ll buy it!” So I keep that into consideration but for right now it is more about building with people and establishing relationship.” This idea of building relationships also pertains to E-ratic’s own beliefs, but it is not necessarily a goal he stated; “I like to build a relationship with people, I want to be able to get on a level where we can communicate when we want, even on a daily basis sharing things. I don’t like to collab and move on.” Returning to W Prophet’s case, his priority is building relationships rather than earning money, for the time being. He does have a goal in mind; “I am looking into get myself booked for shows. That is my main thing to do now. So now it is just about getting certain gigs, once I get to a certain point.” However, he believes he is not at that certain point, for the time being he will focus on building relationships in hopes of eventually getting shows booked. In conclusion, W Prophet and E-ratic appear to have two different objectives in regard to their music goals. E-ratic desires to reach a ‘respectable level’ while maintaining his non- mainstream approach to the rap scene. Meanwhile, W Prophet, focuses on relationship building in order to learn through the process of sharing with his collaborators, as well as, he would like to eventually get to the point where he is paid for his gigs and will be able to sell his music for a source of revenue streams. Previously mentioned, E-ratic, who did not state a goal of touring, was able to perform in a city far from home due to his social relationships with a fellow collective member. Meanwhile, W Prophet has yet to have made a performance for the collective – thus highlighting the opportunity of achieving this goal is not distant. NY’s Personal Goals Similar to the case with the other collective’s, NY’s founder began the collective on foundation of his frustration of the music industry and his inability to get his own music heard. Pupil the founder of the NY collective states; “It started out of my own frustration as a DJ/Producer. At the time I had less than 400 followers and despite all my efforts, I couldn't get any plays on my tracks. I would spend 50% of my time marketing my music and 50% of my time producing and I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere...” Pupil states shortly thereafter that

38 he “was getting sick of all the major labels that were releasing the same carbon copies of the same track.” Pupil was wondering about how to get his music heard, while at the same time he began to “really like a bunch of up-and-coming producers and felt there was nothing to connect these artists and put out good music to the world.” In turn, he took the proactive initiative of starting a collective. Pupil, as founder of the collective, has a heavy overlap of personal and collective goals – this could be due to his role as founder. Since it’s become apparent that the founders are able to dictate collective goals. For the most part, he feels that his collective is at a point where his initial goals of reaching an audience has been satisfied. “I've amassed over 2,000 [followers] since then, just 2 years ago. I've been able to make key industry connections at major record labels and music blogs as a representative of the brand.” Not only has Pupil accomplished his goal of reaching a larger audience, he’s also made crucial connections “built on behalf of the NY” collective – that he and his members often utilize. Due to circumstance the interview with Knight did not lead to a discussion about his personal goals. However, he did state his opinion on the collective and what he wishes to achieve from the collective. “I do feel as though this is a long term project. I really hope that I see it until the end, and sincerely hope that we can push NY into a very professional setting.” Here Knight indicates his own wants for the collective, which highlights that he wishes for it to become a professional platform. Overall, the NY collective appears to be the most professional collective of the four collectives interviewed, with also having their own record label to release music for revenue. It also is apparent, the members of this collective who occupy managerial roles both see a professional future for the collective. Meanwhile, Gentleman, both a producer and graphic designer, prefers to keep his hands away from money; “I guess, I don’t want to rely on the thing I am having fun with as a source of income, it’s just the way I like to live, if you get me.” When asked about what he does to earn money, it was discovered he works as a stock trader for two hours a day and spends the rest of his time on his own artistic projects. He states: “I don’t need to make sums of money, but enough to live comfortably, and that takes about a few hours in the morning and that’s it, you get the rest of the day to focus on the fun stuff.” He believes that if he makes a career out of music that it’d take the fun out of the hobby. “Because yeah, it’s just weird … I guess, I don’t want to rely on the thing I am having fun with as a source of income, it’s just the way I like to live, if you get me.” It appears to be an ideology that he wishes to maintain because; “I don’t want to be the guy selling music because music should be free. But it isn’t a goal.” Therefore, after the interview with Gentleman it was concluded that his personal goals are to

39 simply have fun with music and not “be the guy selling music.” This idea of having fun is similar to the artists in the KF collective, which is also an important feature to prevent physiological fatigue within an artistic community. In conclusion, the three members had different personal goals relative to the collective. However, they all seem apparent to be achievable. For Pupil, his stated goals, of reaching a larger audience, are well underway of being achieved. For Knight, he both believes and wants that the collective to be existent for the long-run. And Gentleman’s goal of just having fun and not making money off of music seems apparent in the collective – due to the collective’s “it’s not about material gain” philosophy. Lonely’s Personal Goals Madman the only respondent for the Lonely collective speaks about his own personal goals. He showed a major preference towards producing music: “I really like being locked in a room for 8 hours and just making music. Not like that is possible anymore, unfortunately.” He says it is not possible due to his circumstances of having to work a 9-5. “Its something I’d like to further develop. I’d like a job where after you’re done working you can still mentally process stuff. Instead of this 9-5 stuff I’m doing now. I’m home at about half past 6 everyday and wake up 10 past 7 and its very draining to have such a job. I’d like to have something less tiring.” He also says it’s frustrating being an innovative artist in a culturally conservative town, such as his own. He, like many artists have a distaste towards the mainstream music; “I just don’t want to be identified with that radio stuff.” In conclusion, Madman’s goal is to be able to make a living off making music, and/or have a career that will not drain him to the degree that his current job does. Conclusion of Personal Goals A wide range of personal goals became apparent, with the core of most of these goals being that they wished to get their music heard more or grow an audience. The importance of growing an audience is that it can lead to the accomplishment of multiple personal goals. The first common goal, is to be able to tour and do live performances. Another goal that was stated was to generate revenue stream, which can only be achieved from having a larger audience. Lastly a distastes for the mainstream music scene has lead to the desire to change the music scene, which again can only be achieved through an audience. Therefore, growing an audience is the core objective in order to achieve the shared goals of touring, revenue streams, and changing the music scene.

40 Meanwhile, it was noticed that everyone who was in a managerial role in their collective adopted the collective’s goals as their personal goal. Or possibly it could be the inverse, for being in a position of manager or founder they are the puppeteers of the collective and are able to dictate the direction of the collective in what they believe is best. However, there were few anomalies in regard to the previous stated goals. Gentleman for example, emphasized that he did not want to make a form of revenue from music, because that will eliminate the fun. As for Madman, from Lonely, wants to be able to simply sit in a room for eight hours a day to make music – even so much he’d be okay with making audio for the commercial sector.

41 Discussion: The Eight Benefits of Joining an Online Collective This next section will be a discussion that was constructed both from the literature and the results section. There were a total of eight benefits identified for joining an online collective. The initial four points, (1) identity building, (2) addressing the cost of uncertainty, (3) closer to artists and fans, and (4) no need for geography, were discovered through the first round of the thematic coding process. (Appendix 3) These points were then finalized with the consideration of the literature, and became sporadically apparent within the sub-questions shown in the results section. Meanwhile the preceding four points, (5) offers a safe space, (6) creates family, friends, or team, (7) growing an audience, and (8) potential for personal goal achievement, were discovered from the sub-questions from the results section. These questions were formulated from the literature prior to the deductive re-analysis. As it was discussed in the literature, the creative industries are faced with two difficult challenges. The high degree of uncertainty in the marketplace known as the “nobody knows” paradigm. Moreover, Peltoniemi’s (2015) “identity building” process a good must go through is intended to evoke feelings and create strong emotional ties to the consumers. Both these go hand-and-hand. For there lies an uncertainty when it is difficult to predict what emotions will be evoked from a good prior to its release. Meanwhile, there is a large quantity of artists that must compete with one another. The initial four points in this segment of the discussion highlight how collectives address issues of the current state of the music industry. First addressing Identity building, then the costs of uncertainty, and lastly regarding the online realm, in how these collectives get closer to artists and fans, and the removal of geographical borders. 1 Identity Building Within, the concept of identity building overall the collective appears to be an ideal environment for an artist to achieve identity building. Throughout many of the interviews, artists had difficulties addressing their specific genre. However, it was far easier for them to identify themselves with the collective. Identifying with a collective, rather than a specific genre, highlights that the collective may function as their core identity. Which in case, it is essential for an artist to maintain an identity for developing artists they run the risk of identity diffusion (Moran & John-Steiner, 2004) Therefore, joining a collective can help an artists create and maintain identity since the collective already offers a platform for the artists to identify themselves with. In sum, collectives create a core identity for the artists to fall back on when the risk of identity diffusion is high.

42 The TRUE collective adopted a unique strategy in which their music is released in themed fashion. Every single album released by the collective features various artists with a common theme, for example, an album titled; “issue eight | RECOVERY” it will feature tracks titled such as “forget,” “these days pass to fast,” or “Beginnings.” This strategy is one that has not been observed before in the music industry. Peltonimi (2015) highlights identity building as a necessary instrument for promoting a creative good. In the claims made by the collective is that these thematic albums are a way for music to be “more tangible in an intangible way.” For theming an album can function as two tools for identity building. First, it encourages artists to have an objective emotion to portray. Secondly, the theme of the album allows for consumers and artists to create a strong emotional tie (Peltoniemi, 2015). This format of themed albums with tracks matching the theme can allow for consumers to have an expectation prior to consumption of the track, for they are aware of the emotions that are intended to be conveyed prior to their consumption. Moreover as Wu (2013) argues that if the consumers’ expectations are not met they will, in turn, deem the good as little to no value. To further build on the concept of building an identity it is essential for the consumer to build emotional ties to the good. TRUE collective was able to bridge the gap between consumers and producers by offering an open chat room on discord, which in turn aids the collective’s ability to gage and create the consumers’ perception of upcoming album releases. For again, as Wu (2013) emphasizes, that if consumers can not relate they deem it little value. Therefore, getting the consumers closer to the production process and understanding of the themes allows for possible opportunities for consumers to relate – similar to how the mainstream artist will release a documentary about the album making process. Furthermore, M Smirk bares witness to the results and states when he started putting “music together in a themed sort of way over time, [they] just started growing.” Meanwhile, the KF collective maintained a simple identity of “promote change.” The “promote change” concept is intended to communicate to the consumers that they are genre fluid. Both interviewees claimed the collective’s strong suit lies in the diversity of sounds offered in the collective. However, their channel is not focused as a music provider, but rather as an online platform to connect different sounds from across the globe. Therefore, the emphasis is to encourage the collective’s artists to collaborate using their individual and unique sounds – this could not be otherwise possible in an offline setting. In the NY collective, it was observed similar to the TRUE collective, that they would release collective albums featuring tracks from multiple artists from the collective – yet it was not as elaborate as TRUE’s thematic releases. NY’s identity was found in an intra-organization

43 fashion for they set prerequisites for incoming members – which will be discussed in the next section. These prerequisites act as an identity that the artist should be willing to all share. In sum, a collective provides artists with a core identity on which they can build their individual identity from. Each collective observed had a different form of identity, yet the underlying intentions of these identities are to maintain the community. For the shared identity is the shared bond, which is an important de facto within a community (Biggart & Delbridge, 2004) (Muniz & O'Guinn, 2001). Meanwhile, this shared identity and community is an essential mechanism to signaling to the consumers what the creative good represents prior to consumption. Meaning, if there is a homogeneous signaling device, the collective’s name, it helps aid the consumer, who is a listener of one artist, venture further, through the collective, and listen to another individual artist’s music (Peltoniemi, 2015). Identity building is possible in the offline realm as the literature highlights. However, the importance of the internet is present in reference to identity building of these online collectives. For unlike offline collectives, who often find their shared bond through shared objectives in the physical world, these members found their shared bond/identity though an intangible online platform. The artist themselves, met first online, usually through the process of being able to relate or identify with the other’s music. Then the artists would feel as if they were able to contribute to a collective ideology/end state. However, there are no significant differences in how a shared identity and bond develops between the offline and online world. Meaning, that the only significant difference is that the internet was a facilitator in establishing these communities. 2 Addressing the Cost of Uncertainty The other concern in the creative industries is that there is a high degree of uncertainty, which in turn creates high costs. These costs are caused by the overproduction of goods which result from two dimensions, an oversupply of artists to market and uncertainty of the experience of the good. The latter can be partially addressed through creating a core identity which signals to the consumer. Meanwhile, regarding high costs, these collectives run on few expenses due to the collectives’ DIY approach. As mentioned in the literature review, economies of scale often require large capital; however, this can be avoided through social capital (Coleman, 1990). As discussed networked organizations are a form of social capital, in which consumers share their human and physical capital in order to lower costs. In the NY collective, the DIY artist makes contributions to the collective’s overall well-being by adopting philosophies that are not centered around financial gains or an artist’s desire to be the “hit.”

44 The NY collective has a three rule requirement for artists to enter the collective; 1) continuously be making releases, 2) maintaining consistent quality, and 3) striving for a career in the music industry. In this fashion, individual artists are encouraged to work on their own creative goods in the ‘bedroom studio,’ and release their work on the NY’s SoundCloud page. This was the case for all the collectives researched that they are in charge of their own means of production, but the release of the product is through the collective’s SoundCloud page. To no surprise, it was discovered the overall reasoning for releasing on a collective’s page is to reap the benefits of cross-promotion – in essence using all the other artist’s followers to reach an audience. This was what W Prophet identified as “showing my brothers love” in the form of reposts. Releasing on a collective’s page is a primary example of using relationships in order to obtain the most from the presented circumstances (Coleman, 1990). Furthermore, the idea adopted, of not focusing on a single artist, by NY, differs from what most record labels embrace, where every individual artist act as their own brand. It was noted in Dahl’s (2009) research that 10% of artist produce 90% of the revenue. Since revenue is not the primary objective, NY, and the other collectives adopted a strategy where their artists fulfill managerial roles in order to lower the costs associated with managing the collective. Artists dedicate a fraction of their resources to collective projects in knowing that other members will contribute a fraction of their resources, for the result is no one has to exhaust their individual resources. This form of sharing resources is the act of reciprocity, which allows for the costs that an individual endures to be significantly reduced (Pretty, 2003) Consequently, when a collective has in-house artists that act as administrators, graphic designers, and managers responsible for bookings, it becomes an effective strategy against costs within the creative industry. In case the collective wishes to become professional, this strategy can reduce the high costs of economies of scale. Meanwhile, a unique strategy that addresses the costs of uncertainty, which the TRUE collective adopted is a content archive. The TRUE collective allows for artists, who are not part of the collective, to be able to submit tracks for releases. Unlike Peltoniemi (2015) who sees the oversupply of artists as an issue creating costs, TRUE collective claims this as their biggest resource: “I have resources to all the music I want, I have resources to all the artists I want, it's amazing if I have a channel and I need music I can pop up my chat… I got music for the rest of the year.” In this manner, if there is ever an album or track that needs to be released, to stimulate consistency in releases, M Smirk is able to contact an artist or reach into the archives.

45 At the organizational level, an online collective can be a beneficial route to pursue, for an artist may not need to compete with the individual brands of a record label or be faced with building their own brand. In today’s age of information technologies, much of the digital distribution can be achieved at such minimal costs. However, this creates an oversaturated marketplace of free or inexpensive music. In order to increase the chance of distributing music to a broader audience, a collective may act as a shared network of individual artists sharing their fan bases with one another, therefore lowering the costs of individually needing to grow an audience. The collective also acts as a platform where when an individual artist is unable to produce a track for a prolonged period, the collective can maintain the consumers’ need for regular releases through distributing other artists’ tracks. 3 Closer to Artists and Fans NY, TRUE, and KF, all consist of DIY artists pursuing an unconventional direction in the music industry. This benefit address how a collective can bring an individual artist closer to both other artists and fans. As Oliver and Green (2009) highlight DIY artists “[have] a strong ethic that relates ideals of being creative and having fun [while] being self-sufficient at the same time.” These collectives do adopt strong ethics, such as NY’s “we will not use you,” or Pupil’s “to have a go-to place to hear refreshingly innovative tracks that push boundaries.” These two paradigms go hand-and-hand, for instance if the NY collective does not aim to control the artistic direction then they are able to allow the artists to be genuinely themselves. Therefore, providing listeners a with a platform to hear these genuine and innovative tracks, which can further build the relationship between the artist and fans. Meanwhile, the KF collective’s “promote change,” is a strong criticism on the contemporary music industry. This “promote change” ethic communicates to the listeners that they will not be hearing the cliché music produced else where, but rather a fusion of styles which is KF’s proclaimed strong suit. Meanwhile, in the artists-to-artists relationship fun is an essential role to maintain physiological health. W Prophet and Gentleman, members of KF and NY respectively, state that they are having fun when they are in the collaboration process. Fun seems to be crucial part of the creative process for all the artists involved in the collaboration (Oliver & Green, 2009). As for all the collectives studied, other than Lonelys, nearly all members stressed that they are self-sufficient in regards to their own means of production, but not the marketing and distribution – which is an important aspect in Oliver & Green’s (2009) research. This here

46 highlights the importance of building relationships with other artists which is needed to be able to market themselves. As Sherman and Steve (2010) identify that the Web 2.0 has allowed for artists to connect closer with their fans through direct downloads and feedback loops. All the collectives offer direct downloads for free, yet there lies a tactic in these free downloads. If a user wishes to download an artist’s track one of the requirements for the free good is that the user must actively follow the artist on social media, this is known as a download gate. These download gates, bring fans and the artists closer together while simultaneously achieving the goal of growing an audience. To add to this, SoundCloud also allows for fans to comment on tracks at specific time markings allowing for artists to receive detailed feedback. Meanwhile, the TRUE collective took the feedback loop to the next level by offering a public chat room which allows for fellow artists and fans to initiated discussions in regard to on artists’ pre-released or proposed track concepts. Further addressing the uncertainty before releasing the track to the public. In total, the collective concept has allowed artists and fans to interact closer with one another. The collective builds a tight relationship with the artists by allowing the artist to be themselves, this results in genuine music. Meanwhile, individual artists build relationships with fans through feedback loops as well as download gates – which encourages fans to interact with artistst on the Web2.0. According to Peltoniemi (2015) and Sherman and Steve (2010) an artist’s ability to succeed can increase when the consumer is able to connect with the artists’ music. Therefore, allowing feedback loops through chat rooms or commenting on a track the consumer can feel closer to the artists’ music. This entire benefit of connecting artists to other artists and fans could not otherwise be possible in the physical realm, as for it requires communication to transcend geographical borders. 4 No need for geography As Oliver and Green (2009) highlight DIY artists “inhabits a local music scene.” According to the results section local music scenes can now be decentralized, geographically speaking, through the world wide web. As well as much of the research regarding DIY artistic communities, emphasized that they are geographically constrained (Aleixo, 2015) (Mcgee, 2011) (Lena, 2012). However, this research further strengthens that the world wide web and genre evolution is no longer constrained to geographical epicenters. For the collectives researched in this paper are spread across the global and that their shared platform in the digital scope can be considered their epicenter. W Prophet emphasizes that being from different

47 geographical background enhances the collective’s ability to be different which is seen as an advantage. W Prophet identifies this as “really important” and that the “different styles” is what “makes us unique and better.” Furthermore, Gentleman claim that the geographically diversity contributes to his experience with the collective, for it either inspires him or enhances the collective’s recognition within the music scene. Meanwhile, F Killer discusses that because of the collective’s geographical diversity he can experiment with different sounds that others are able to offer. Another major phenomenon that resulted from this research is that online collectives allow an artist to reach marketplaces otherwise not achievable. Members of various collectives were able to have live performances thousands of kilometers away from their geographical region. E-ratic’s experience with the collective bares witness to how the collective aided him in reaching a new marketplace. Due to E-ratic’s relationship with a fellow member of the collective he was able to perform in the northeastern fragment of the United States, while he resides in the Midwest. Another, example is F Killer, who resides along the east cost of the united states and is planning on performing a concert on the west coast. In sum, geographical diversity appears to enhance the collective in three manners, first artistically it can inspire the collective members. Secondly, it can create a diverse set of artists within the collective differentiating themselves from other labels or collectives that are geographically constrained. Thirdly, and most importantly, there is an opportunity for artists to reach new marketplaces otherwise not possible through relationships that they have made with other collective members. In the literature regarding DIY artists, Alexio (2015), states that artists that share resources gravitate towards an “epicenter” of resources – in geographical terms. However, this research discovers that their can be “epicenters” found on the world wide web – where artists merge and collaborate. This research identifies that this gravitation occurs when the said ‘bedroom-producers’ transcend across borders and build online relationships in order to collaborate with one another (Hesmondhalgh, 1998). Creating a sense of Belonging This next segment of the discussion is built off of the deductive question of “How does the online collective create a sense of belonging?” 5 Offers a Safe Space (Sense of Belonging) When the sub-question, regarding how does the collective create a sense of belonging, was created the intend consequence was to discover from the data what it pertains to the artist.

48 Sense of belonging is found through a shared bond and a yarning for importance. As Moran and John-Steiner (2004) research emphasizes how artistic collaborations offer a ‘safe-space’ through trust. Digital collectives act as a safe space, for they too, are a prolonged form of collaborations relying on trust. This results in collective’s offering a sense of belonging in various ways. In TRUE collective’s case they address the loneliness that artists will often face in the physical world. They have created a support system through their various chat forums which will cover themes such as depression or experiences with drugs. And as F Killer stated, many of the artists and fans will return home from school or work and open up a chat forum and vent about their days. TRUE collective provides a further more in depth observation of Moran and John-Steiner’s (2004) research, which simply says that artistic collaboration “can provide a safety net against mental breakdown.” The discovery made from the TRUE collective is that it has given a place for individuals to escape their loneliness. And academically it provides insight into the presence of the “safety net” concept in the digital scope. It may be even possible that this “safety net” is more effective than in the offline world. For the chatrooms are accessible 24 hours of the day, and that the impersonal relationships allow for them to feel less vulnerable. To conclude this idea of the chat room, F Killer an artists and frequent chat room member speaks of his experience in this chat room: “I'm like, so inspired… that it has kind of changed my life in my whole outlook on everything in some ways.” Moran and John-Steiner’s (2004) safe space concept can continue with the KF collective. For E-ratic mentions that the collective offers a platform for other artists to offer tips, tricks, and critics. Felling comfortable is essential within an artistic community for it welcomes criticism. The collective in entirety have a belief in the concept of “promote change.” This change comes to existence due to the collective’s openness to various sounds. As the collective encourages innovative sounds, the artist must be open to criticism. And W Prophet stresses this; “I learned how to give my input and really kind of not been afraid to share your ideas with people and really give them your two cents.” The importance of a safe space, according to Moran and John-Steiner (2004), is for artists to be able to have safety net against mental breakdowns and prevent identity diffusion. Online collectives can address both these issues, they are able to allow an artist to comfortably experiment their new productions prior to release, or vent about personal issues, and receive words of encouragement from fellow members. They are also able to prevent the identity diffusion that artists often face, by offering a core identity that the artist can build from, while continuous communication contributes to shared identity.

49 6 Creates a family, friends, and a team The reasoning for a safe space to be present is that there is a sense of being part of a family, group of friends, and/or a team. Out of the eight individuals interviewed; seven referred to fellow members in the collective as a friend; five referred to them as a teammate; and three identified them as family. This research adds to the intricacies of organizational members referring to their colleagues as family, friends, and team that have been introduced by Casey’s (1999) research. In her research there is a correlation between these identifiers and an individual’s “sense of involvement, commitment, and empowerment.” In the case of the TRUE collective, F Killer states “a lot of people who have just become part of our… family you always see the same people every day and you'll always talk to the same people.” This idea of family is what creates this strong sense of community within the collective. It appears that construction of a such a bonded community leads to trust which is an essential feature to achieve collaboration. In turn, the collective prospers when their members see themselves as being part of a community. And through trust, it encourages individual members to work towards a communal goal, and gives every member a sense of importance due to their responsibilities to commit to the family or team. Trust within this family is important for it allows for artists to feel comfortable to receive criticism and to continue on with their works and strive to be better. While Reciprocity is essential in the advice relationships, when an individual receives criticism it often requires that the other individual must provide criticism in return. However, this criticism creates vulnerability, but as Pretty states trust and reciprocity go hand and hand. Further connection can be made to Moran and John-Steiner’s (2004) safe space concept which too requires trust. Within a family/team like community artists are open to receive criticism. Which in turn, results in the collaborative effort of pushing one another to strive for betterment. W Prophet, admits this: “I feel like it has helped me out as far as creativity through how it pushes me.” While the NY’s strong importance on team, lies in their philosophy of “I help you, you help me.” An unexpected result is that these built online relationships results in individuals interacting in an offline behavior. F Killer mentions how he went to the extreme of driving 400 kilometers to meet up with other producers from the collective at a hotel to collaborate in person on music. It could be that online, put before offline, relationships can enhance the offline experience in regard to collaboration. For Gentleman didn’t build a relationship with a specific producer, but decided to meet the producer and when they began producing together he realized that it was

50 “annoying.” In the end, a tightknit community based on family/friends/team can lead to an improved experience in the offline collaboration phase of music. Meanwhile, when trust and reciprocity are initiated in an artistic relationship they tend to have a healthier perception of the other individuals. That is why some of the artists interviewed referred to their fellow music collaborators as family or friends. And much similar to how an actual family or group of friends behave, a “I help you, you help me” (Gentleman) philosophy can help achieve a goal. With the collective goal often lying at the core of every individual’s goal, all artists expressed that they want to get their music heard, therefore explaining all the collective’s goals are to grow their audience. Goals The next points in this section will address goals within the collective which were discovered from the two sub-questions of: how are the collective’s goals being achieved; how are the individual’s goals being achieved? The latter question discovered that the ultimate goal of each collective is to grow an audience, meanwhile the former discovered that by growing an audience the personal goals of many of the DIY artists are achievable. It became apparent that in order for a collective to maintain continuity through the test of time it is essential for the goals to remain supported with the personal goals. Secondly, personal goals are achieved due to the collectives’ goals and their nature. For example, in the case of Lonely, there was a lack of an overall collective goal which lead to the collective remaining in a state of inactivity. In the section below it will be addressed how growing an audience is beneficial yet involves consistent activity. 7 Growing an Audience The major theme amongst the various collective’s goals was to get their music heard, or in other terms grow an audience of fans. In the deductive sub question, in regard to how do collectives achieve their goal, F Killer speaks of the fact it takes an entire “network or team” and a “whole bunch of effort” to get their music heard. The network and team paradigm comes before the effort, but once put together, with the goal of getting music “music heard” it creates an organic growth in the form of reciprocity. What is meant by natural growth? W Prophet states that if it wasn’t for the collective he would not be sharing music this often. By being part of a team and setting out a universal goal of getting each others’ music heard it creates a sense of responsibility that every individual in the collective must show “each other love” (W Prophet) in order to achieve this universal goal.

51 The literature (Onyx & Bullen, 2000, p. 24) highlights this social mechanism as reciprocity which focuses on short-term altruism and long-term self-interest. In the case of the collectives, the short-term altruism is when the individual artist shares a fellow collective member’s music to their own fan base. This is what Pupil referred to as “cross-promotion,” this cross promotion can be a major benefit to both the collective (short-term altruism) and the individual (long-term self-interest). It could be also said that this reciprocal theme found, is what Pretty (2003) refers to as the “rules of the game.” In the case of the collective sharing one another’s music has become an un-contractual rule of the game. E-ratic further defends this argumentation of the rule of the game by stating that “everyone is on the same page and wants to get big.” He further identifies members who do not participate in the rules of the game as an individual who is simply selfish. Meaning that if an artist does not contribute to the social norm of reciprocal exchange, of sharing each others music, they run the risk of possibly being social ostracized within the collective. This dislike an individual artist may receive, could result in the consequence of their own music not being shared – again emphasizing the importance of reciprocity. Therefore, it is essential for an artist to partake in the short-term altruism of sharing other’s music in order for their own music to be shared. Other rules of the game identified in the collective setting is that the collective’s do not focus on material gain – other than what is necessary. This philosophy is highlighted in the NY collective, and is used in order to make sure that artists are given an equal opportunity to get their music heard. Pupil states that “we support everyone equally and try to make everyone around us thrive.” This further is supporting of what Pupil deemed as “cross-promotion.” This rule of the game further strengthens the collective’s goal of not using or hurting anyone to achieve success. It can not be stressed more in the observation that the principle of growing an audience lies in the foundation of short-term altruism. For W Prophet states that if “something good happens to one of us, it happens to all of us.” This idea is found in the internet allowing for cross promotion, for if a single artist gains a sudden large online following, it may result in their fans potentially discovering a fellow collective member’s music. Here is where social capital is at it’s works. For an artist to receive the benefits of getting their music shared they must cooperate in the sharing of music, but most importantly they must be trusted when partaking in the reciprocal rituals of the collective. If an artist is trusted, this will ultimately lead to the short-term and long-term goal of growing an audience.

52 8 Potential for personal goal achievement Continuing on the concept of short-term altruism and long-term self-interest, this segment will focus on long-term self interest. The long-term self interest is built around the ideas of growing an audience. Collective members indicated various personal goals, however, at the core, all the artists indicated that they would like to grow an audience. Furthermore, most of the various goals, were all dependent on a growth in audience. For example, being able to have a purpose, touring, and making a financial living off making music all require an audience. In the occasion of finding purpose, as addressed by Moran and John-Steiner (2004), artists receive a sense of purpose when their music is heard. This research discovered that the sense of purpose an artist receives is not only when their music is being heard but when both fans and fellow artists react positively to the music. This is due to an artists revealing there deep and interpersonal creation through the transparent creation of a creative good. In the case of F Killer, he addresses that the appreciation for his own artistic creation has saved his life. Meanwhile, receiving appreciation is essential for an artist’s own happiness, yet is not the only motive – there is another dynamic. The other dynamic discovered in this research regarding purpose, is the purpose of changing the music landscape. In E-ratic’s case he displayed a distaste for the current state of rap music, therefore, he wants to contribute his own belief of what rap music should be about. NY’s founder, believed that all the music in his genre were “carbon-copies”, therefore, he wishes to change how mainstream house music is perceived. And in order for a shift in a music genre to occur their must be a following of listeners to support this shift. Therefore, in order to make a shift in the music scene there must be an attraction by the audience – and has previously mentioned a collective is able to attract an audience more effectively through cross-promotion. Other than having a purpose, there was the desire of being able to perform live, and travel the country and world doing so. This can only be achieved when an audience is reached, or at minimally when a fellow collective member has an audience. In the case of E-ratic, he was able to perform a thousand kilometers away from his hometown because he was friends with a collective member who invited him to perform with him. The same can be applied to F Killer, for he is able to perform shows with his collective 4,000 kilometer away from his hometown of Washington D.C. The collective format seems to be an express way to being able to tour the country through the social relationships created from partaking in the collective. Lastly, a repeated theme was to make a living off making music. From all the artists interviewed they were not able to sell their music because they do not have a large enough audience reach. This results in them resorting to other means of income, such as F Killer who,

53 because of the collective, will be able to give online music lessons to aspiring artists. Or as all artists stated, they were working another job in order to make a financial living. The collective’s researched here do not have the audience reach to be earning enough money for a living, but the potential for collective growth is apparent. The failed case: One unique aspect of this research is that one of the participants was enthusiastic about providing insight into why their collective is inactive. This case will be analyzed using the themes from the eight benefits of joining a collective, for the benefits are not merely benefits, but they rather act as a framework for operating a collective as well. The background story goes as so; the collective was initiated when there was an external individual who introduced various artists to one another, creating a network artists. While partaking in the group chat, this external individual did not appear trustworthy in Madman’s perspective. Due to the distrust towards this external individual within this network, seven of the artist took it upon themselves to take the initiative of forming a collective - without the external individual. What then ensued was a SoundCloud page was created for this newly formed collective. Each artist submitted a track to collective’s SoundCloud page, and after the initial track posting, nothing else followed. When asked why the collective failed, Madman stated that there was a significant “lack of scope” – or goal orientation. From this lack of goal orientation, it became apparent that there was no shared bond to keep the collective together. If there is no shared bond, it can translate into no shared identity – meaning each individual did not feel part of something bigger. Meanwhile, with no shared bond, there was a lack of short-term altruism, which resulted in the long-term altruism never ensuing. Because nobody was acting in the short- term altruism of maintaining the collective, no trust in the collective members was established. Since there was no trust, there was no interest in partaking in collaborations or the reciprocal exchange – known as cross-promotion. The core issue, in this case, is that there never was a shared identity or shared bond. The shared bond is the consequence of never having established a collective goal. Because there was no collective goal for the short-term altruism to function, no long-term self-interest succeeded. However, another reasoning behind this collective failing could be in the assumption that each artist had such a significant following that they saw no benefit in partaking in the collective’s cross-promotion strategy.

54 In conclusion, it can be observed that an essential aspect of maintaining a collective is either creating an identity and culture or more importantly creating collective goals. For the collective goals are often what creates the identity of an online collective. It could be possible that outlined goals are of more importance in the online collective world rather than the offline. For in the offline world, which is geographically constrained, collective members risk the possibility of encountering one another, and to avoid losing their social-status they may consider continuation of their initial ventures.

55 Discussion on theoretical implications The 8 benefits of joining the collective have now been addressed, thus fulfilling the research question of “what are the benefits of joining a collective?” However, how do these 8 benefits relate to previous research? That will be discussed in this section. According to Peltoniemi (2015), creative goods produced are an indicator of identity, often times in an oversaturated marketplace that the internet has presented it is difficult to create a single identity. However, the collective format allows for artists to group together to share a core identity. This core identity helps the consumer perceive the intentions of the projected artwork and creates a more accurate expectation of the future artwork. It importantly also prevents an artists from identity diffusion – which is addressed by Moran and John-Steiner (2004). The second point of addressing the cost uncertainty, which is due to the organization of individuals who posses’ unique skills sharing them amongst one another. This sharing of knowledge and skill, allows for the collective to minimize their transaction costs and avoid the need of economies of scale (Porter, 1979). Which is a tactic often used by major record labels, due to Cave’s “nobody knows” paradigm. Therefore, the need for 10% of artists bring 90% of your revenue may not be necessary using the online collective format (Dahl, 2009). Ultimately online collectives provide a new format for DIY artists to ultimately stay afloat financially, as well as cross-promote. Thirdly, due to the online collective’s nature of connecting artists with other artists and fans in the new Web 2.0 format. It has introduced a potential new form of feedback loops through commenting and chat rooms between artists and consumers (Sherman & Steve, 2010). Collective’s address uncertainty through this benefit as well, for as stated in the literature review, music is consumed based on the “interests of [online] user” (Breen, 2004, p. 80). Therefore, the tighter connection between artists and fans allows for for artists to receive immediate criticism both from the peers and their fans. A discovery has been made about a unique strategy which has not been addressed in previous research, which is the concept of download gates which can be built on Sherman & Steve’s (2010) idea. Where when a listener wishes to download a song for free they must follow the social media accounts of the artists first. Therefore, forcing a relationship between artists and fans. In regard to DIY artists and offline collective formation, the fourth point observed that genre’s and collective DIY artists are not geographically constrained. This necessarily was never stated by Alexio’s (2015) observations, it merely was never addressed. However, this research discovered that a collective provides a digital cultural epicenter for artists. As well as

56 the social relationships establish allows for artists to reach new marketplaces. Furthermore, Oliver and Green (2009) were originally under the impression that DIY artists inhabit a local music scene, it is apparent that DIY artists nowadays do not need to inhabit or represent a local music scene. An important discovery from this research that was built off of Moran and John-Steiner (2004) concept of safe space within artistic collaboration. Is that the Web 2.0 has allowed for artists to find a safe space within the digital scope. Here, artists were able to deal with the psychological barriers when producing art work through shared support systems. Artist trusted their fellow collective members therefore allowing themselves to receive criticism on their art as well as words of encouragement in the time of need. Three interviewees responded how the collective has changed their lives – a bold statement. The reasoning for the safe space creation is due to the collective’s ability to act as a family. Organizations that act as a family is part of Casey’s (1999) research, it identified that it increased sense of involvement and commitment. Many of the artists interviewed believed that they were committed to the collective – with some members using strong language such as love to identify the importance of the relationships. Ultimately as the literature review suggested collaboration increases in a family-like community (Diefenbach & Sillince, 2011). However, this research was able to discover that these strong family-like communities can be found in the digital realm. Lastly, it is important to highlight the importance of goals in the collective, as spoken earlier about short-term altruism and long-term self-interest (Onyx & Bullen, 2000). The collective attempts to communicate their overall goal of growing an audience to individual members. For the goal of growing an audience is fundamental for artists to achieve their own self-interest goal. Breen (2004) discusses that the internet has reduced the cost to enter the marketplace through the disintermediation of distributors, yet it is a double edged sword where it creates an oversaturated marketplace. However, the collectives researched here, show that when worked together they are able to expand market share through cross promotion and the sharing of fan-bases. Therefore, increasing the chances of music being heard once entered in the marketplace. It is shown in this research that these members are committed and that online collaborations do not care that they are based through the digital realm. It was also identified that members of the collective are more likely to have a better experience in offline collaborations when they have established a relationship online first. Therefore, it may be wise for future artists to seek relationships online first to find artists of similar music taste and

57 experience prior to meeting in person. For Web 2.0 allows for artists to share their expectations prior to collaboration. Resulting in an overall improved experience of the collaboration. Managerial Implications Artist-Managers who are part of a collective are able to use the 8 benefits to better understand their organization – in a “check box” manner. By becoming self-aware of their benefits they can help attract new and larger artists who wish to partake in the benefits of cross- promotion. Managers and artists can take a piece of information from each individual collective researched here, whether it be: TRUE collective’s greater purpose philosophy, themed releases, and public chat room. KF’s strong relationships and promotion of change. NY’s professional and well organized collective. Or the mistakes of lack of collective goals learned from Lonelys. TRUE collective offered a unique fashion of identity building through their unique album releases, which can make something intangible feel tangible. The objective of these releases was for artists to have goal to strive for and give them a sense of greater purpose. The greater purpose lies in the themed releases representing a powerful emotion a listener will face in their quest for existentialism. The collective, also provided a greater purpose through having their artists and fans connect on a far more personal level in public chat room. KF, presented a collective that stressed an importance on friends, family, and team. For much of the administration is inactive, the collective is held together by the artists themselves. For a common theme between the interviewees was that they wanted to promote change. The promotion of change was due to their general distaste in most of the music that was to be found in the mainstream. Therefore, they’ve presented themselves as an alternative listening platform where listeners can here artists who want to break the status quo of music. Managers who wish to take their collective to a level where they can compete with record labels can learn from NY’s professional attitude towards the collective. Firstly, the collective would communicate it’s three point principles to potential recruited artists, creating an intra-organizational identity. While, simultaneously, they understood the importance of having artists not feel as if they are being used. Lastly, they stressed that the collective would not favorite a single artists giving equal opportunity for growth. Which most likely, leads to all members working together to cross promote one another. Managers of a collective could also learn from the importance of goal setting for the concept of short-term altruism and long-term self-interest from the other collectives. For in the case of Lonely it can be used as an example for new collectives needing to create and communicate an overall collective goal. Which is essential to achieve short-term altruism and

58 long-term self interest. Therefore, new collectives can take precautions to make members feel more inclusive through better means of communication. Is the online collective right for all artists? An artist comes in a wide array of different intentions. Meanwhile, some wish to strive for careers, while others use their creativity as a hobby. In the case of online collectives, it was apparent that this format is ideal for just starting out artists who are attempting to at least get their music heard. Whether they wish to make a career out of making music is dependent on their on pro-activism. For in today’s music scene artists are required to take some form of the workload of management, at least for the initial phases of their career. If an artist is genuinely seeking to get their music heard, yet lack the skills in marketing and creating an identity, then a collective may be an ideal solution for the beginning phase of their career. However, if the artist is not keen on working with others and partaking in the reciprocal roles of sharing their fellow collective members’ music, it may be an unnecessary burden joining an online collective. It may be possible that they even hurt their status amongst their peers for a distrust may accumulate against them.

59 Critique of findings with suggestions for future inquiry This research did present flaws, one being that most likely the respondents of the initial set of e-mails may have a natural tendency to be willing to partake in the interview. Therefore, creating a natural bias towards online relationships. Meaning that the interviewees may be more naturally optimistic about their collective and online presence. Meanwhile, the second flaw of the research lies amongst most qualitative research and that is the data sample may have been too small, the reasoning for this is many members of the collectives extensively ignored the emails - for it was confirmed using MailTracker that e-mails had an open rate of 93%. The study also failed to take into account networks and their ability to influence the collective. For some of the artists interviewed were part of multiple collectives. However, little was researched in regard to how they attempt to reap the benefits from multiple collectives. The study also had too broad of a scope, failing to isolate and go into details of the online collectives’ functions themselves. In regards to further research there are quantitative models that could be implemented to see if cross-promotion is an ideal tool for effective audience growth. This can be examined through SoundCloud’s API which could give insight to whether an artist who shares more music from fellow collective members will lead to an increase in followers comparatively to those who do not. (Appendix 5) It can also be further researched in artist branding and the impact that a collective may have on an artist’s individual brand – using the brand architecture proposed by David A. Aaker and Erich Joachimsthaler. Another interesting find, but not addressed are to various models of music distribution in the new digital age. The first one being TRUE’s model and the second one being NY’s model. (Appendix 6)

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64 Appendix Appendix 1

The introduction message sent to artists

Dear XXX,

My name is Phillip, and I am currently studying at the University of Amsterdam, I am doing a Masters of Science in Entrepreneurship and Management of the Creative Industries. I am currently conducting research my thesis, and I am looking into the phenomenon behind 'how online music collectives form and self-manage.’

After a quick analysis of your soundcloud, I realized that you and your affiliation with the collective/label XXX has unique aspects that I would like to further research. Therefore, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to interview you and a few of the other members of the collective. The interview would take approximately an hour, or less, and would contribute to the academic world management of the music industry. In return, I will give you the end result of my research, which potentially can aid you and the collectives’ future advancement. I also am open to let you ‘pick at my brain’ after the interview and I can give you my theoretical insights.

Since I am based out of the Netherlands, we would have to conduct the interviews via Skype. Therefore, I kindly ask if you would be available for a skype call later this week or weekend? For quick convenience please use the link here, in order to schedule an appropriate time for an interview. (Please double check to make sure it is in the right time zone)

Please find my CV attached below for some transparency. If you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me via WhatsApp, Cell, or E-Mail.

Thank you, and I am looking forward to your response,

Phillip

M: +31 6 80 04 16 82 E: [email protected]

65

Appendix 2

Questions used to maintain the semi-structured format of the interviews

Questions:

You personally, what is your story? Age, origin, are you an artist? Education, work? Tell me about yourself and your musical experience? How did you get into making music? When and why did you start___? How did the formation of ____ come about? I noticed “_____ aims to create a community for like-minded producers to collaborate and inspire.” This community is spread across 4 continents. How do these collaborations work? How has you as an artist, and the manager of the collective, impacted your artistic career? What role does you as a manager play in the collaboration of two or more artists? What is the criteria for taking on a new artist into the collective? What are the criteria to stay within the collective? I noticed that you give your music away for free. Why is that? How did your A&R’s and managers come to the position that they are? Are there ever contractual agreements for collective members? Have you ever held collective events? What are the various roles in the collective? Where are your listeners coming from? How many people are in your collective?

66 Appendix 3 The codes from the inductive analysis.

67 Appendix 4 The pre-created codes used for the deductive analysis

68

Appendix 5 Potential hypothesis/framework for a qualitative research.

69 Appendix 6 TRUE’s model

NY’s model

70 Appendix 7 Transcripts M Smirk TRUE Collective (July 27th 2017)

Phillip: Since you're busy we can just sort of just try to jump right into everything.

M Smirk: Perfect, I am ready.

Phillip: So yeah let's start out with you as an artist yourself, yeah sort of like what's your personal story, like your age, your residents, education work experience all that.

M Smirk: Yeah, so me as an artist personally I guess that is kind of how I started. I started, I downloaded fruity loops like fucking 12 years ago and I haven't done shit with it, it’s really sad like how long I've been trying to produce music, but so from like 15 to 20, I'm 26 now, from 15 to 20 from 15 to 21. I just messed around like a couple times, like a month for a few years just making nothing out of fruity loops just trying to see what's up then and I started DJing at 21, and that was really nice because it allowed me to like, do more at the time like whereas when I was trying to producing, I wasn't even making beats, so it was cool because like it allowed me to get a craft and hone in and try to like improve so after DJing for like two years, I was discovering like a bunch of artists that only had a couple hundred followers, they weren't getting more than a couple hundred plays and the music was really good so I was like well shit, I want to help these people! I want to find a way so I can get them heard more. So that's kind of how Future collective was founded. I had a purpose to make it so artists would be able to get heard, but also I'm coming from my own background and having times of isolation or loneliness and wanting hope, and wanting to continue to live. I knew that there was other people out there like that, so I wanted to give a place where people could meet other people and collaborate with each other communicate and there'd always be kind of like a greater purpose for them. So as we started out as I started rising these artists up and putting music together in a themed sort of way over time, we just started growing and wanting something more. So after about our fourth issue we created a forum. That forum was a place where people could talk and get together because on Sound Cloud like the sound cloud messaging system is kind of shitty, can only talk to one person at the time so this allowed us to really meet more people. We outgrew that after a couple months we moved to a app called slack, we outgrew slack after six months and we've been on discord for almost a year now, with like 500 members and two different channels. As of a week ago we just launched our newest one it's a public discord, whereas before it was private. So now anyone that's an artist can come in and join and no longer feel alone. They'll have resources to help their music whether it's tips and tricks to make their music sound better or networking tips on how to get their music heard, and then also in the past like after like three years ago after learning how to DJ better it wasn't about for me, so I started to try to produce more. I still suck so I'm telling myself if I make a thousand shitty songs, then I'll have more confidence and more knowledge to be able to make the music I know I want to make, but that in its myself is such a struggle because I'd spend so much time on future and all these other things that it's hard to have time for it and then when I get time I get frustrated and fed up and can't do shit. So I don't know it's still a big goal of mine and it's always in the back of my mind, but it's just really hard which gives me even more props to all these artists who are out there excelling and making this music in which, is ground breaking and very inspiring.

Phillip: Wow, yeah right that's exactly what I like to hear. You have a very humanitarian approach to it all yeah, and a lot of yeah the internet sort of has changed that ground in the

71 sense now you can connect all these people, so when did future collective actually start. When did you say I'm making it official?

M Smirk: Yeah over two years ago, March of 2015.

Phillip: Right, you grew it nicely.

M Smirk: Thank you man, I mean it's never, it's wonderful that I have a community but I'm kind of unsatisfied in this current state, because a lot of this growth has been like on Sound cloud and Sound Cloud isn’t the most sustainable platforms, so there's like picking my brain with how else we can grow outside of that.

Phillip: Suggestion maybe Myspace. But yeah just uh I think that's that has the appropriate funding to sort of keep afloat and it's also a platform that has profiles too, but yeah that's it's still it's difficult to move your fan base from one to the next probably.

M Smirk: Do you use Myspace?

Phillip: No, I actually have not used it in a long time.

M Smirk: I haven't heard them mentioned seriously in a long time.

Phillip: Yeah, but that was that that was sort of like the original SoundCloud, you could actually say.

M Smirk: Yeah, for sure I don't think we have Sound Cloud if it wasn't for Myspace. I don't think no music today would not be the same if it wasn't for Myspace. Myspace was that first site that showed how you can gain all these fans online. How you can show your music online, how you can discover new music, it's all about discovering new music not like hearing the same fucking shit that's always playing the radio that you already know like.

Phillip: Yeah that's cool yeah your thoughts sort of like what are your thoughts on sound cloud though, and how it sort of changed the landscape of the music industry?

M Smirk: As much as Myspace changed its Sound Cloud is responsible for way more. I mean Sound Cloud gives the bedroom artists an opportunity to get heard or is like Myspace you typically needed to have more experience, you need to already have some popularity. Myspace I think was a bit more with popularity whereas Sound Cloud it's the music you press play you hear it, if it's good it can go viral, to an extent like that's also a reason why like I found a future because I was finding this music which wasn't getting heard even though these artists were really good, but still sound cloud gives that platform because especially two years ago when there was so many more people on. I was like a feeding frenzy every like three months we'd have some giant new leap of evolution, whether it was Mr. Carmack or Sam G doing these things that someone else was doing, but then they took it to the next level just this wonderful evolution. Sound cloud has been crucial for the music we had today for the music that isn't on the radio and well for music that is on the radio now too, I mean electronic music didn't play on TV or the radio five years ago, now it's mainstream to here future bass and dub step.

72 Phillip: So true, well said, yeah then have you seen any the first off the future collective is very active in my opinion from what I've been seeing, from all the collective base, and your followers sort of reflect that, but are you gaining any revenue streams from it?

M Smirk: So, yes good, because I've got a goal in mind. I've been working from home for the past like two or three years, so that's been allowing me to be able to work and make money but also like work on future collective all the time, because my job is like typically would give me time to do all that, but I got laid off like three months ago and I've got three months of unemployment, so I've got three months to make enough money for me to live. I've cut down my living expenses to very little so where I can make 600 a month that's enough for me to live and not get a job, three months ago we made 100, 2 months ago we made 200, this last month we made 300, so I'm on path to do that but it's still very hard. We make about a third of our money from a site called colio.io it's one of our partners his name is James Brice and he made a site it's an honest download site, sites like tone den and artists union or pump your sound they make you repos or make you follow other people, colio.io it's simple you press it. you follow just the artist or maybe one other account if it's related, you get a repost anything, you then follow accounts and then the artist gets anywhere from like five to ten cents download, as a collective as well we'll get five to ten cents download. So that gives us like a hundred a month, it also allows the user to submit submissions to us. So instead of having like five different places for people to submit it's one clean easy to use place where everyone can submit it and because we get so many hundreds of submissions if the user wants to pay a dollar then that I think it's two dollars now and that means that we'll listen to the track and we will respond typically it's like responding with feedback like saying hey that mix is too muddy or that synth is really generic, but I really like it because I feel like for a couple dollars as an artist that's not a big price to pay, to get feedback from like a collective you are up to. And then also stickers I've been starting to sell stickers to try to bring in money.

Phillip: I saw that.

M Smirk: Got t-shirts under way but it's taking forever and then I'd like to start doing some more promotional campaigns, so like when an artist releases a track we can help promote it and get paid because certain labels like night-owl collective they charge like 20 or repost. I don't quite want to do something like that, but I do want to do something where I can get paid to help the artists get heard by putting in my time. That’s a long answer but there you go.

Phillip: Sounds great this coolie I haven't even heard of it you're the first one to mention it, so I'm glad now I'm going to definitely dive in and sort of see what this whole platform is about .

M Smirk: Yeah if you're an artist you can go and submit to a bunch of real collective and labels that'll look actually (…), I'm like if you put it in like submit hub like that's cool but you rarely get a response because these, I don't they're all like kind of some of them (…), they're too big.

Phillip: The more you talk about the collective definitely, yeah your collective initially didn't meet my search criteria, because in your bio you do not list your roster, but then sort of like I was just like it. I knew through your website I could access your roster, so I was just like that was just sort of like fuck it was just, for the research purpose I have to set certain criteria and

73 that was one of my criteria but I sort of I'm going to pretend like you guys put it into your bio.

M Smirk: What's funny is we actually just took it like out of our bio we had a link that said like roster here, good this morning I took it out so that's funny. Phillip: Yeah it was, but it was but it was the link of where it says roster here and that's the one, but it still didn't have the full page roster of some collectives will put all 45 artists onto their bio.

M Smirk: Yeah which I think is kind of silly when its 10 (…) stand, but like you don't have 45 artists in your roster these like most of those collectives are like they've released with 45 artists, but they don't consistently release for 45 artists.

Phillip: Yeah and then regarding your work well what were you working before you got laid off?

M Smirk: I was doing an IT so like tech support for various companies. I never went to school right well I went to high school but right out of high school, I got a job at another tech place AT&T from there I went to an insurance company then over to Google then over to Uber and I spent three years at Uber and here I am.

Phillip: Alright that's cool that sounds like a good CV.

M Smirk: Yeah for sure except now like I just I don't want to get another job again. I want to do what I love and which is hard but I know it's possible but take a lot of work.

Phillip: I think actually yeah you have the right attitude. I've looked I've sort of observed and sort of studied certain artists. I'm really big into sort of like psychology, sociology and sort of how that's really true you can dictate your own future, if you put your mind to it and your enthusiasm it's like I'm pretty sure future collective or at least you yourself are going to get there .

M Smirk: Thank you I appreciate it.

Phillip but yeah regarding yet the collective so you do have revenue streams have you put on any events for the collective?

M Smirk: Yeah we just got done doing two shows in Portland and Seattle like two weeks ago. We had artists like Dave (…) we brought in a couple of headliners that haven't released on our network like Great Dane and X and G, and then you brought some other members of our roster, our roster is kind of like people that are released with us so in to go back and another artist zero temp and then another artists we brought up from nothing names Zen aware and Zen aware he's been with us for a really long time. He's one of the people that'll be like one of our success stories and then we did a couple other smaller shows that aren't really worth mentioning but shows are definitely our future except, just takes so much fucking time and so much money that I kind of want to just like divvy it off to someone else where we give them our roster we give them our lineup. They pay us to set them out we don't have to put in our own money or as many hours or one time.

74 Phillip: Yeah okay but then at the same time you sort of risk creating a middleman that you become dependent on.

M Smirk: Well, if it’s never the same man, it's always like us shipping it out to like hey Seattle here's what we have given us an offer, hey California here's what we have given us an offer like just kind of going to like promoter by promoter. Like yeah we won't get as much money potentially but we're not going to lose as much either.

Phillip: Yeah, on the time spent on it.

M Smirk: Like this, the shows process is like several thousand dollars and we ended up losing a couple thousand dollars.

Phillip: So that's all there. Yeah the industry's hard, yeah and then what about we're like most your listeners coming from would you say?

M Smirk: I can actually I can show you real quick like our stats [18:26] majority though is United States that is where almost all of our listeners, well it's where the majority is. Okay, I’ll share my screen so you can see this. Do you make music yourself?

Phillip: Yeah I'm just at the beginner phase, I'm mastering my craft but I'm definitely a DJ.

M Smirk: Oh cool. I’d love to invite you to our Discord, I don’t know if you've seen it yet but that's where like a lot of the magic happens.

Phillip: Discord? Yeah you know I jumped into that just today. I was looking into that and everything and I was sort of just intrigued by it all, is it okay if I take a screenshot?

M Smirk: Yes.

Phillip: Cool yeah. I'm looking at it just seeing good, yeah it's funny seeing Korea and Japan in your top 10, because those are growing markets somehow like I don't know try just suggestion try somehow coming through there's some other collectives have you ever thought of doing like a joint collective mix tape?

M Smirk: Specifically no, but that would be a good ideally get some collective from Korea or Japan especially because like you said yeah they're definitely growing markets. I think it's also more like they're kind of untapped for us because they use different streaming services, and a lot of the people that I know don't really fuck with that but that would be very beneficial if we could find a way to like get in there. Phillip: Yeah that's cool thanks for sharing that with me. The page.

M Smirk: You can see definitely tons from the US.

Phillip: Yeah those a significant that's already like nine hundred thousand of your place, yeah and then the next were like. I think twenty thousand, thirty thousand. So alright no that's good though most your artists from the US then?

75 M Smirk: Most of them are from the US but I say I’d say 70% of our artists are from the US and then 30% are from Europe and Australia mostly. A lot in the UK, couple in like the more like Portugal areas and quite a few in Australia as well.

Phillip: Do you have any contractual agreements?

M Smirk: Yeah, a few, it depends on like what, so like we have some for artists, we have some for like our revenue streams, we have some for our distributor, which I'm still trying to work out, but a lot of everything is based on time and trust, because as we're still growing like for my staff for my team. Because everything's changing so much and someone that might work for us for a year, well a year from now their vision might change entirely. So it's still a big part of the growth, so like a couple staff members have been with us for over a year, but some haven't so it's still kind of too soon and then for our artists, I firmly believe first and foremost, I'm doing this so artists can get heard and get exposed, so some artists that have gotten bigger don't sign with us because the fact that wouldn't be good for them yet because we're not big enough, like something something is a good example if you've heard of him, like he wouldn't quite have as big of a following if we would have signed him down with us. So I firmly believe that we should let the artists grow and that does mean releasing on bigger and different channels. So it's kind of like a sacrifice in a way but it's also just kind of the Good Samaritan because I want these artists get heard. I'm not doing this for a greedy way to like keep these artists mine, I'm doing this so they get heard, so that means they have to leave us to go to somewhere bigger well that's amazing and hopefully they release with us again sometime.

Phillip: Okay well said, do you, have you had (…) that's sort of like is something something now that he's bigger and everything, does he still come to you guys and work with you guys.

M Smirk: Something something in particular no, he's someone that I like hasn't, but we have others like Bull vibes you might have heard of, Bull vibes still releases with us or Dave (…) as well, even though he's gotten bigger they can still release with us and as we've grown we've actually gotten other larger artists that have come to us and they're like hey, we like what you're doing so like, let us release something with you and that's always nice.

Phillip: Alright that's cool. So other artists that are sort of already known come to you?

M Smirk: Yeah, because they, I think just because they like our vision, they hopefully like our music too.

Phillip: That's cool, that’s really cool yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to uncover with because I think this is it, what you guys are doing as part of this new approach to the music industry. And I can really see that with you guys, the profile it seem to be more geared towards just the music and that's the key part of it.

M Smirk: Yeah, a hundred percent like that's why we theme our music because I'm sure you've seen a bunch of compilations out there and it's pretty much just like a bunch of tracks it's cool but I want more meaning, I want more value, I want something that's more tangible in an intangible way, that's why I like theming them it gives the artists like direct inspiration for what to make a song on and it gives the listener something that has flow and has some type of greater meaning.

76 Phillip: OK, that's cool and then regarding your artists, how did you first pick out your artists were they like buddies of yours that you already knew like personally or just digitally?

M Smirk: So it goes back to when I was deejaying I was finding these artists that I thought was really good, they had a couple of hundred followers so, so maybe friended others I just admired so, I got a first compilation was full of just people who have gone on Sound Cloud it should've gotten heard more. Second one same one there we got a couple submissions, in my the third one we were just getting submissions by other people and then the fourth one just yeah just all submissions. Every issue I do like to pick out like artists that are currently like rising like (…) she is a good example like six months ago we had two hundred followers now he's got like thirty five hundred it is getting hit up by larger people's so yeah, I try to like look for someone that I feel like has potential that they're going to be known so that way like years from now people will look back like oh shit they released on future first, so some of it's a gamble and a lot of those gambles pay off.

Phillip: OK, it’s cool. That’s cool, now you guys maybe in this new forefront being sort of like the (…) that in twenty years people be like the hardcore fans will be referring to future collective you know.

M Smirk: I hope so that's the goal.

Phillip: That's good. Yeah then, what I like the various roles of the people in the collective, like you said you have other people on your team.

M Smirk: Yeah. We have four administrators, I have fifteen moderators for community, I have three visual artists, sort of the visual artists help with the art, I have one of our admins is in charge of branding and then we also have our artists. Our artists are in two different categories, one is our main roster and the second is our network artist so, we run ten different sound cloud pages, so anyone that's released on those sounds cloud pages are part of that network roster, all in all our team is probably like one hundred people but my staff is about fifteen. You know my admin, my main people that admins run various project because we do our mixes, we do our cyber series. Our cyber series is where every two weeks we create a theme and give a sample pack and let artists make a track and mix it together based on the theme, based on the winners, so you just got like all these projects where you need people to manage a little, but you know.

Phillip: Yeah dude, it sounds intense. But the intensity it's a well, very well thought out of all the collectives, seems to be the most thought out that I've come across.

M Smirk: Thank you.

Phillip: Yeah so let me see what else. Then, taking on new artists I know that they submit tracks to you, sort of what are the criteria.

M Smirk: So, to get on future collective you have to make a track based on our themes, the only music we take on is if it’s music that's been made for themes. We rarely release singles, but because we accept submissions, if this submission is kind of like a future based track, that catches our eyes and it isn't generic, we have a channel called future vibes, if the track is kind of more bounce experimental but still lightly before we have a channel called preconceived

77 notions, it was kind of R and B, it’s got some soul, we will put on (…) society so, don't (…), we still theme on different channels but there's more diversity and it's more widespread so, if an artist makes a good track they can still get on our network and will still be posted and get it heard.

Phillip: Wow, how many channels you guys got.

M Smirk: You can go to our website and check out network but we have at least like ten.

Phillip: So the networks were yeah and I saw a yeah mucking out back at it crown collective, so you guys are also the founders of crown collective.

M Smirk: So crown, authentic, night owl and play louder we did not create but they are partners, where as channels like tied and secret society, future vibes, and notions, sensitive cosmic superior, the ones that we own and run.

Phillip: OK, cool yeah because when I was looking at that I was sort of a little bit confused because I thought they were all sort of partners with.

M Smirk: That's kind of the way I'd like to portray it, I don't like to be flat out saying hey this is future collective, I want people who kind of maybe guess and maybe one day find out and be like oh, so I like some mystery.

Phillip: That's really cool, that's a really cool, OK, now I understand it. You know it's real cool. So yeah then, how often do you turn away artists would you say?

M Smirk: I’d say like ninety five percent of the submissions we don't approve on, for future collecting we get about fifty submissions a week, in all of our channels we get about one hundred fifty, we leave out ten only about ten are approved but because we started this new public discord about a week ago, let’s say there's one hundred tracks, of those six are probably garbage and not very good, five to ten may be good enough to release but it’s only two or three of our tracks which are made by artists that are pretty in time, they care, they have energy, they have intentions I see that they have potential, that's where now I have the ability to be like hey, not only should you keep up the great work and know that you can have your dreams but here's a platform for you to come on and meet all these other people's. It’s the ideal way to go and get better your music and that makes me feel good because I don't like just being able to say, I don't like to just say rejected, I typically like to give feedback really hey, here’s what you could be doing better, here's some hope and inspiration to keep going forward because being an artist and gets rejected like that can really kill your self- esteem and I'm in the business to make it so artists keep on producing and keep on getting better and keep on having inspiration to raise the next level because we need that innovation right now, we need that next evolution that’s happening to come, and when I can’t get that by pushing people away.

Phillip: So yeah, speaking of this next evolution, what do you sort of see that being?

M Smirk: I see it as a giant conversion, you have all these millions of people listening to, in my opinion, shitty media, this E.D.M., this generic it's all the same that doesn't have as much emotion because it was just copied by someone else, whereas five years they were listening to generic rock music or generic rap or indie so it would be good but the point is that there's

78 all these listeners and now they're kind of like zombies listening to this music which I don't see a motion in, so there's this ability to convert them and inspire them and show them holy fuck, there's this music here and this music has meaning and value and purpose and is way undiscovered and these should get heard, so they should get inspired, so It’s really right now just matter like tell the world like hey we're here, we're doing something like look at us, come find us, listen. So that's like where I'm at now, trying to spread my hands and let people know we exist.

Phillip: Do you feel that most people in the industry aren’t looking to help each other out?

M Smirk: I would agree that's the way we're heading it's with greed and popularity which I've seen like Spotify, everyone focusing on Spotify, everyone is on Spotify and it's so one sided, there's no interaction between the bands of people it's mostly mainstream, it's mostly the same artists, you can't discover these new artists as easy and a lot is getting lots of people over to Spotify and not sound cloud because on Sound cloud it's where the little guy, the foundation actually has a chance to get raised up, or the reasons why I do love sound cloud as much as I'm currently despising having so many resources on it, there's nothing else like it out there still.

Phillip: it's just iTunes and Spotify who are doing the reproduction, distribution and retail front of the music industry it seems. And the record labels now are really only out there for 360 contracts, and giving sort of the upfront money for big projects.

M Smirk: I just wish it were different because it just seems so hard to be able to win with that type of setting, I mean in one sense it's nice because the artist now doesn't need as many resources but you know the record labels are still taking a ton of your money.

Phillip: Yeah, but at the same time then you seem like somebody who wants to burn that house down.

M Smirk: Yeah. Yeah just creating a whole new house that is so much bigger that their house can't stand anymore that's like, that only gets big and better.

Phillip: But now artists have to do is they have to first prove themselves before being able to go sign something else.

M Smirk: Yeah, very very true you know it's not like I mean you still get those people that come on and are going to make a record even though they don't even know who they are but a lot of those people know that if you sign with record companies which is just such a silly way to do that. You need to establish yourself first before you do something to immediately establish yourself like people that like just launched their careers from a record label you can just tell they music sucks like almost all the time.

Phillip: What do you sort of expect from the fans coming on board?

M Smirk: You know we don't get too many fans coming on board, well most of our fans are producers and I think a big part of it is because our base is mostly on Sound Cloud, a lot of, there's more producers on Sound Cloud that I know that listeners these days so, but because we do advertise it's open for listeners and fans, we get them sometimes they just like to chat and the same thing that like I wanted before I had a future just like a place to meet people and

79 not feel alone and it's all about meeting likeminded individuals, so whether you're an artist or a listener, if you like to say the music well you've got a ton to talk about, you can talk about all these artists, you can talk about what you do when you listen to music, there's a bit of a psychedelic culture as well because of the music that I was inspired by, so my taste has been put into this music where I do like psychedelic deals where say you take some L.S.D. or M.D.M.A. and the music talks to you more emotionally and allows you to hear something that you might not have heard and you normally talk skids, where's that intoxication can really inspire you because it's something new and different and that itself is a big conversation topic, just kind of every week there will have someone who takes some type of substance and has a good time and there's just there's a lot of common boundaries that we can talk about whether it's psychedelics, or being alone or having a bad time with your family, and it’s kind of we are all there for each other.

Phillip: That’s cool, that's really cool. Precise, to sort of steer into other direction along the lines of resources, what resources do you feel like you do have access to and what resources do you feel that you should have more access to or need?

M Smirk: I have resources to all the music I want, I have resources to all the artists I want, it's amazing if I have a channel and I need music I can pop up my chat or I can pop up my coolio, pop up my email, I got documents about so much music like I got music for the rest of the year and it’s like we've got five more months left or something. So as far as resources that I don't have, I don't have much money like there's not much money to make from this and I'm spending eighty hour work weeks making nothing so, resources I would love to have easier resources to distribution outside of Sound Cloud, I’d like to have resources to market myself more outside of social media, as much as everything is digital I feel like there's not enough physical connection or physical advertising but there are still people out in the physical world so yeah, there's a bunch of resources I don't have it's like I have all this music and I can kind of get heard but if I had more resources I could really get these artists heard. But I do kind of feel like something is stopping me from reaching those bigger resources like whether it's radio, or Pandora is a good example about how hard it is you know Pandora, it's like the record label, the people in the top are really kind of stopping people from getting up there.

Phillip: So, you would say that if anything applies more along the lines of the consumers?

M Smirk: Yeah, you know that I'm not able to have as many consumers as I’d like at all.

Phillip: Since Sound Cloud it's actually just produces this thing to other producers.

M Smirk: Yeah, it's very very sadly true.

Phillip: But there's also a comfort in the sense that finally there's a place where people can connect, the artist can connect.

M Smirk: Yeah very true.

Phillip: Yeah then, quickly going back to other people who play roles in your collective, they also all are artist, correct?

M Smirk: Except for our web developer, yes.

80 Phillip: OK and visual artists are they also producers, music producers?

M Smirk: Yes except for one.

Phillip: OK cool, cool so everybody sort of contributing themselves, do you have paid artists otherwise really?

M Smirk: No. I've paid visual artists but not audio artists and I have not paid audio artists anything yet. I wouldn’t because I'm not really making any money to pay for it, any money that I may receive is money that goes right back into it getting a music heard or getting an upgrade or server promotion it's really, that's kind of the collective feel, like you're kind of donating your music, on one side hopefully you get heard but also because it's going to help us collectively rise up and get heard.

Phillip: Yeah, it sounds a little sad but ultimately I think it's really a cool this is and this is a renaissance that's occurring.

M Smirk: I do think so, well said.

Phillip: You as an orchestrator, do you sort of sit down with other people and sort of point them into the right direction of what you want or is there more of a cohesive thing?

M Smirk: I would say more the orchestrator but like say if I were orchestrating and I’m out of line, people can be like hey, actually we think this or you know M Smirk that’s a good idea but I think it should be this way so there is definitely some like pull and push and common agreements but yes, if it's mostly all me except within reason and I can get checked myself as well. But hey I got a bunch of messages that I need to get back to…

Phillip: Yeah, all right then we'll be in touch thank you again, and yeah, have a good day and everything.

M Smirk: I talk with you soon bye.

Phillip: Bye.

Phillip and F Killer (July 29th)

Phillip: Hey. Well first and foremost thanks for doing this. Yeah. Do you have any questions before I jump in and everything?

F Killer: No go ahead.

Phillip: So going straight to you first. So F Killer Aka Himmel, what is your own background age education profession location?

F Killer: Yeah. So I'm 25 from DC in the united states. And I've been making these beats about four years or so. So right now in the summer. So I'm just working full time but during the school year, I am working while going to school.and I'm doing a music technology.

81 Phillip: Do you think of that sort of going to help you out in any future career are you trying to be an artist in your future career?

F Killer: Yeah, definitely hopefully it will help. I hope one day to maybe own my own studio, but I guess I can tell that I really want to work yet. Until then, I want to work my career as an independent artists and keep producing music and hopefully touring do all that.

Phillip: Have you already started having any gigs?

F Killer: No, not yet. I don't DJ that much but I've been practicing out with a little controller the Numark Mix track pro two. I’ve been practicing on it a little bit but hopefully I'll be doing some shows soon. I know some cool people in the DC area who I can play with and who are really willing to play shows and come out and bring people. So hopefully soon and in January I’m actually going to be going over to Oregon meet up with M Smirk and all the guys from TRUE Collective. And we're going to be doing a show then too.

Phillip: It seems as that TRUE Collective have their things moving along push further. So then how did you get into TRUE?

F Killer: Yes. So they just commented on my stuff one day. And they followed me and I think I had heard of them before but that basically open the connection from there. Then they asked me to release a track. So my first track was together with issue 6 and it was over a year ago now but I've known the guys for about a year and a half now and you know, the last few months, I've become part of the roster and I’ve gotten to know everyone a lot better now and I think we're going places for sure honestly. There’s some crazy artist on their for sure.

Phillip: It has a very interesting structure. Do you work anyway in the administrative or marketing parts of future collective?

F Killer: Kind of. Like, I work on, like I go on the discussion page a lot and like to moderate there and we have weekly meetings about what our plans are for releases and all. Stuff like that, really. Phillip: How many releases have you had already with TRUE collective?

F Killer: Only two so far but I have one coming up before you which is August 14.

Phillip: But I also saw that you're part of four other collectives… Which one of the collectives was your first one?

F Killer: Um yea… So my first one was crown collective. It was probably two years ago that I sent them a track. And I guess it wasn't that good and they never responded and then half a year later they hit me up asking for a track. That was the first time I ever released with another page. So it was like a big deal for me. And then a year later I released another track with them which was I think was two or three months ago.

Phillip: I'm thinking about it now, are you trying to release tracks probably once a month?

F Killer: I guess it depends like. On my page, I'm going to start start releasing stuff every like two weeks or so. I kind of took awhile to release my last track but I've been sitting on a whole bunch of tricks lately. And I'm also going to be trying to release more with other pages

82 more often cause. I think my last one is maybe. The collaboration with Chromonicci, which was a TRUE uture single?

Phillip: So you're in the future collective. Do you think that has? Changed you artistically or influence to artistically.

F Killer: Kind of. I mean. I don’t know. It's hard to say there's been there's been so many like influences, I feel like every artist that I listen to whether they're in TRUE or not have kind of influenced me in some way. Or have gotten me to think about new things that I can do to experiment with my music. Trying to like improve my production skills and stuff.

Phillip: Then a along do premise of artistic abilities do you have any musical experience?

F Killer: Yeah, I've been playing guitar for 13 or 14 years at drums for about 8 years. And a little bit of vocals. And I'm trying to get better at keys. I completely suck at keys, but. I’m not really able to play really advanced melodies. And I played a little bit of saxophone in middle school, but I don't play anymore.

Phillip: Do you think that has also sort of encouraged you to go on this musical route?

F Killer: Yeah, before I started producing, before I even got interested in producing. I always wanted to be in a band and do music and I was in a few bands, like I was actually in a pretty serious band for a few years. Which was a few years ago, but I started just like joining a bunch of bands when I was in middle school… And basically a lot of my music, or my life became my music, for since that point on. I guess middle school is when I started taking it taking a lot more seriously, since I guess 2012 or so. I don't know electronic music kind of had a big movement in the USA. So it started getting me interested in a producing. And there was this class that I took my freshman year of high school. Where basically we were taught how to record music and work on like a garage band, but it, it was still interesting to me and we learned a lot of the basics of that. So That got me interested in music production and. I mean I've always wanted to music but I feel like since that point on I knew that i want to be a producer.

Phillip: So yet set out. Then regarding music and sort of performing do you sell any beats or do you have any stream of revenue coming from music?

F Killer: At this point not really. I think every track that I have a free right now all my band camp you can pay what you want but I like rarely get those but soon and actually I'm going to be doing. Like skype lessons and videos for TRUE collective, so stuff like that are then gonna be in the coming months?

Phillip: School and then you think you're going to be charging a watcher somehow monetizing anything on that way?

F Killer: Yeah. We probably will for for the youtube tutorials there is mostly for a lot of the beginner artists of our page. And then we'll also have a skype lesson sort of thing where we'll, have various producers do like hour long lessons for certain amount of money. And so most of the money will probably come from that.

Phillip: Yeah, and then regarding your album artwork. Do you have specific artist that do it?

83

F Killer: Depends for releases that are not on my page always because the collective will have certain person that knows art. My page you are all like a lot of times I’ll just get something else off Google but then sometimes I like ask a friend. Or for one of my old arts like a Meru he made the art work, he took the photo and crafted it and all that, and then he allowed me to use that. And then a Chromonicci also he did my background art. So, I guess it varies for my last song, I just got something off Google I just wanted a nice color scheme. Yeah, but the one before that I use M Smirk Recommended to me.

Phillip: Did you pay for that or was it just also free?

F Killer: Yeah, it was free.

Phillip: I didn’t check to see if you have a tracks of other artists you?

F Killer: Yeah, I have few of have a lot better in progress. Like, so many others that are in progress right now, but the most recent one was the one with Chromonicci which was the future collective single.

Phillip: Ask how does that process go?

F Killer: It's a pretty crazy experience. Sometimes it can be really quick like if we're free and we have the ideas already. I recently did a collaboration with Elo and we literally finished in a day or two like, I sent him something he sent it back to me the first day and it was like Done. And it just sounded really good like, I loved how our sounds like mashed together. But. I think it's a good experience because. You can experiment with different artists in their sounds and you can also get your sound across a different platform of listeners or audience of listeners. And so they can be introduced to you and your sound in your brand at all that. So I think, it's beneficial for everyone really and you can make also… I have made some lasting friendships through collaborations and meeting with different artists. Like, especially in real life collaborations last year, I went up to New York, and I met with a bunch of people and we just like sat in a hotel room making beats. And it was crazy.

Phillip: Wait. How was that arranged simply we're all going to be in New York, and we're just going to sit down and make beats?

F Killer: Yeah. I don't know if you know, JonX, but he's based out of new Jersey. So we actually we met in Jersey City, and I brought up my friend who is also from Virginia and then another friend of John's came up as well. And it was convenient because there was also a midi show the next day. So we met up with everyone for midi and.

Phillip: This sounds really cool. Actually sorry. Then, of course, you've met people from the collective, in person?

F Killer: Ummm from TRUE actually haven't met anyone yet because I would say most of those people are from the West Coast. Meanwhile midi who is based in North Carolina, which is not too far from me. And there's a lot of artists in New York as well. It's like four hours away.

84 Phillip: Yeah, then what do you think of the current state of sort of the music industry and SoundCloud with you being able to connect with all these People?

F Killer: I think it's the best thing about SoundCloud! But people have been talking about it dying lately but I honestly don't know if that'll ever happen. It's true that reach has gone down, I think that there are less dedicated listeners but I think that there's still that community there and there always will be. I don't think other sites, like spotify they don't really help an artists grow and expand like SoundCloud does, you don't meet people the same way, you don't hear art organically in the same way that you do through SoundCloud. So I don't think anything would be able to replace it for a while, they'd have to be on to something and the same way SoundCloud was.

Phillip: Do you think there's other mediums or channels that TRUE collective should push through or you just yourself on a push through?

F Killer: Yeah. Definitely Spotify is big for listeners and also can give you a lot of revenue especially if you like play lists placements and all that youtube is really useful. I really honestly don't know much about youtube promotion, but there's a big audience on there, and then besides out really just other small sites like fanverse, which is coming up but there's no way to know how well that'll do. It also getting on platforms like Apple music in. I tunes in here.

Phillip: Yeah, so we're talking about how going in a different direction at about the chat rooms and I want to dive into your opinion on TRUE Collective’s chat rooms?

F Killer: It's awesome. I feel like that has been a way that I've met a lot of people especially the past few months. I just love it discord. I just love talking all the people and meeting so many different artists. Yeah. I used to, I don't even. I don't even think I knew what discord was until maybe this year. But ever since I've been on the chat an-like especially since I've become part of the roster of become like a lot more involved in. And like our whole group of people here at TRUE - there's a lot of people who have just become part of our big community, and it's almost a family you always see the same people every day and you'll always talk to the same people and actually through our new our public chat as we actually have had a private one for a while and now our public one is open to everyone and we're hoping to get a lot of new artists in there. People who are still learning and people who will be able to network with other people and like improve their music and promote themselves appropriately and all that.

Phillip: What’s your opinion on TRUE and using the site Coli.io?

F Killer: Yeah, that's a really cool thing. It's really nice recently or not like that recently but he added download gate. So you can use that. And you can submit to different channels, you like some it for a release or a repost or anything like that.

Phillip: You mentioned just now repost. And I did look at your profile you do seem to be reposting songs on the daily. What is your motive behind?

F Killer: Basically a combination of helping homies and networks you always got to support your friends and then I'll be browsing SoundCloud if I'd like a track a lot I’ll repost it. It's usually just like a subconscious thing like this song is so good and then it's like reposted.

85

Phillip: It’s almost as so that there are SoundCloud artist who only post there music and yours seems more oganic And I said, it's just, you would feel like your sound card pages more also for yourself then.

F Killer: I guess so part of it is that. Obviously, I'm representing myself, but it's also my personal page, you know all the music that I like in repost. I also listen all that music. Like, I just have my headphones in at work and I'll be listening for hours. So for me, it's like I am a fan in a listener and also an artist at the same time.

Phillip: Cool. That's a sort of what the whole TRUE collective seems about a lot of people are not only just producers but also fans?

F Killer: A lot of my listeners in other people's listeners will make music themselves. And those are often like the most dedicated people it seems. The producer ones are the ones with high interactivity. But there is definitely a few just listeners but a lot of the people that will message me asked me for tips and stuff like that, they'll be producers themselves either. They'll be learning or on the come up or whatever. But yeah, mostly producers who get really. Seems like everyone just kind of constantly inspiring each other. I don't, I'm not going to sound like cocky or anything, but like the people who have come to me inspired. It feels good because I was at that point, and I still am that where here other artists. And I'm like, so inspired and how they have. Yeah, that's kind of change my life in my whole Outlook on everything in some ways. So I think it's nice to be able to give that other people and to be able to have that sort of community. Cause it's people that you don't even know and you'll just hear their songs one day and It'll just make a lasting impression on you like there will be songs that I’ll always remember. And then I think have definitely changed how I've made my own music. And I just like a lot of that to the artist that I grew up with something too and all those people that I've respected and still really look up to.

Phillip: You mentioned earlier on the lines that a TRUE collective sort of seems like a family. Why would you sort of say that it's sort of a family?

F Killer: I mean, to me at least it's definitely my family, a lot of my friends are musicians online. And I think a lot of people are in the same boat where you know, they'll have their daily life, but then they'll come home after work or school or whatever and just like make music and talk to friends and talk to other people who are inspired to become artists and it's definitely a family for me.

Phillip: I've heard stories of people who are in the same boat with another artist and one of the artist sort of blows up at a smaller at a small scale level like say they get 25 kay followers. And then all the sudden they're not really talking with. The other person. Because they sort of progress a little bit further into the music industry guy think that's there?

F Killer: Yeah. Definitely exists. It's not as common as it would seem but I've heard stories, but it all. I mean I think part of it is that naturally once you get to a certain point. It just doesn't really matter give your 25 okay. And you have a really good friend, and they. A lot less forward. It's not always necessarily appropriate to have a collaboration. For example, but I think for the most part a lot of. A lot of artists are still cool with each other after one of them like blows up. It's usually more of a rare case from what I've heard but I've heard stories definitely that happening.

86

Phillip: Yeah. Then do you spend some time on marketing yourself or branding yourself.

F Killer: Yeah, I tried to. More with the release is you know I have a lot of help from TRUE collective. My other family, stems collective whom I am really close with and play it louder collective, pill society and all of them. So they help me, I guess I push my music and I also spend time reaching out to other collectives other labels - stuff that other artists and I try to get my music out there. It definitely takes a team though for anyone who releases a song. For example, if you’re not not Jay Robb or whoever, you can't just post a song on your SoundCloud like it takes, it takes like, a network or Team, it takes a whole bunch of effort.

Phillip: Do think that this is why collectives may have formed, because it does take a team effort?

F Killer: Only part of it. I think they've also form out of groups of friends who also produced music or groups of people who have pretty similar music and trying to get that specific sound out there. I've noticed like a lot of collectives will have a really distinct sort of sound. You know one thing that hopefully is comforting a certain art or artist who are starting out who might get their songs rejected a lot, and it definitely happened to me a lot but you also have to remember that you need to make sure that your music is a Good fit for whoever you're sending it to.

Phillip: Okay. And then it this is he brought that up. Do you sort of choose between which collective you want to send to based upon the sound?

F Killer: Yeah, kind of like there will be collectives that I will really like their music. But then I am like I don't know if my sound fits once I send them something but there are also just like a lot of collectives out there that you know. I think there are a lot of collectives who also have really a diverse set of sounds as well. If I'm sending something to someone with Future Funk or something and I'm making like a trap sound, then it's not going to fit at all.

Phillip: How long have you had your SoundCloud for it?

F Killer: Late 2012 maybe. I was more of a listener back then at that's about when I started like producing or like this when I got the FL demo, but I didn’t even get the full version until a few months later. I guess since then… so that's why I have 5000 likes but I've been on SoundCloud awhile.

Phillip: Yeah. Yeah, I notice that you did have a lot of likes and comments on that you have contributed. More than actually a lot of other artists, but that could be also because of you having the SoundCloud now for five years. What genres would you consider yourself in, or genres?

F Killer: I guess the typically scene that is called the future bass scene it could also be called experimental beats or experimental trap beats or future beats. I guess I originally started with future bass in 2013 before it became more EDM like. I guess eventually overtime a certain listening more to future beats stuff Mister Carmack and Sam G and like electric mantis and people like that Mura Massa and then so eventually I started getting into the future beat scene without even kind of realized realizing it. And even since two or three years ago, when I started listening to like Soulection and all of those similar artists. I think the scene has

87 definitely changed since then. Like you would still consider it future beats, but It's definitely changed definitely. Phillip: Do you see sort of a change in the music a straight now going on?

F Killer: Yeah, I guess right now I'm really into a trap bangers and stuff like Dilla, yugi boys as well. Anything with fat 808s and kicks and all that. West wonderfully I've been he's been one of my favorite artists for the past two years or so and he's really progressed. I think he wanted first or listen to him. He was about the same amount of followers as me and now he's almost like 20k. Same with Yugi boys. . Phillip: Yes. I don't know if I have maybe how long have you been DJing you said, you are still trying to get there?

F Killer: Yes, maybe like a year. There is like a point where I kind of took up took off time from it or, I guess focus less so much time on it too, just like improve my production because I wasn't always satisfied. I mean you never satisfied as an artist but I wanted to like improve my sound. So I guess without thinking about it started focusing less on DJ.

Phillip: You mentioned that you were in a band. What sound were you guys going after?

F Killer: Post-hardcore. Or When I was younger I was more into I guess like metal core type stuff. But In high school is more like a dance Gavin Dance fall stuff like that, which is more my inspirations back in high school and then in middle school is more into heavier stuff. Like, as I lay dying in. All their means and all those bands. It's weird. I've met a lot of producers who were into that music before.

Phillip: Do you think being part of the band helps you with collaborating with others?

F Killer: Because definitely once you kind of get a accustom to like working with other people, I think I really learned that when I started band class when I was like in fourth grade or something you get used to the idea of being. Part of a full symphony or whatever, and, you know, having a role in working with other people, but yeah. Definitely being in a band helps with that.

Phillip: I won't keep you held up in everything. I appreciate you taking the time and good luck with production good luck player fuzzy Jane just keep keep up the ground, that's really this patience and persistence. And it all falls into place. If you just keep your mind to it and you grind us. It's with anything you want to master something you just have to do it. Thank you. I'm here and hopefully will be in touch in the future hope. Maybe I can book you as a deejay or as a feature on something, I don't know what I'm doing after my research but.

F Killer: Thank you and hopefully we will be in touch in the future. But Bye dude!

W Prophet FK (July 5th)

Phillip: Thank you for taking your time. Let’s dive right in since I’m recording. What are the collectives you are part of?

88 W Prophet: So yea, the two that were mentioned in your e-mail. Subatomic and FK are the two that I am most involved with and been a part of for the longest. I’ve been part of them for over a year.

Phillip: How long have you been with them?

W Prophet: Subatomic has been about 2 years, FK has been about 1 year exactly since March. And the way I got into those was contacted by which were the two people who started Subatomic, Clutch Kid and Nick – Flamethrowin. They both contacted me and I didn’t know about them. But we sort of built a relationship through that and since then we’ve been cool over the last two years keeping in contact and all but that was for subatomic collective, with about 20 people. And about Joining FK that is from my good friend Gazpacho he is from France, he is a producer also. I didn’t know of FK at the time but he was actually in it. And he contacted the overseer, the orchestrator, of the collective his name is Buuda – the manager of FK. So that is how I got into FK. I’ve been in it now for a year and it has grown a lot since then.

Phillip: I’ve been in contact with Nikc and Buuda. But along the lines quickly about yourself. Some background information would be cool such as age? What do you do schooling/work wise?

W Prophet: I’m 21, just turned 21 this year. I’ve actually thought about going to school for engineering, sound engineering. But I’ve been mostly just work, to help with my musical equipment now. I work and spend most my time brain storming to see where I can take this music thing. So I’ve beend doing that for awhile and have been producing for 6 years now and I haven’t gotten any good till about 2014ish and then on. But before I started in 2011, I had played trumpet for about 4-5 years so I had musical background before even producing. I know how to read music, that is how I know how to count bars, measures, and timing. From there on I took that experience into producing and it just worked perfectly cause I just knew how I kind of wanted to construct certain things but I still had to learn a lot with producing with software’s and different tools and how to use them with a computer. So since the production began I’ve been putting out music, certain tapes. I try to do different sounds for the most part as you may have heard my Brazilian inspired tape. I try to get experimental a lot and I try to listen to a lot of music. I collect vinyl so that’s just a little background of how I got into music. But if I definitely got into school I’d definitely go into audio engineering but its all about timing.

Phillip: Some people do and do not have the prior music experience. How has your music experience helped you, especially in the collective work?

W Prophet: Having that musical background, performing even when I was in a band. I’ve travelled already. When I was in Baltimore, in the Peabody institute, I was in a big band and it was a new experience when I was with them there were people from around the world. It was always a team effort working with them. When you’re in a band you have to be on the same wavelength as far as everyone has to play there part. And you really work together to bring the music together to one. Having that experience when I was younger has helped me when working with people now. It definitely gave me a little experience as far as being constructive people. Being critical with certain things. It’s like I do not have a problem mentioning to someone ‘hey you should do this.’ I feel like that is all part of being a

89 producer, it is not like just making beats but working with people and orchestrate those things. I learned how to give my input and really kind of not been afraid to share your ideas with people and really give them your two cents in the kitchen.

Phillip: Have you collaborated much with fellow artist? And if you do how does it work?

W Prophet: I just actually started collaborating more in the past year or so. Before I had not. It was always before, just me finding myself and me learning about my sound. And work on myself. My first collaboration was with a girl from Amsterdam she’s actually a rapper. Her name is Jannelle [Find the real name] and she was the one I collaborated. She actually found me and I was wary cause I never collaborated like this before. And I made different connections through her and her folks and she knew people on her side that were international known. Yea when it comes to collaborating I like to build a relationship with people, I want to be able to get on a level where we can communicate when we want, even on a daily basis sharing things. I don’t like to collab and move on. It comes together, I don’t ever try to rush it. It will happen when it happens because I want my things to be meaningful. So even with people I know, it will happen when the moment is right – when it is suppose to happen.

Phillip: So was Jannelle, part of any collective?

W Prophet: No she was just doing her own thing. She just kind of found me through youtube at the time. I was on soundcloud, but I was still transitioning from youtube to soundcloud. I was posting myself on youtube it was the place where she had found me. She was by herself and it was just me and her.

Phillip: Let’s move along to the lines of the collectives. Are there any requirements that they asked of you when joining?

W Prophet: Well, as long as you produce good music. If Buuda or Nick hear your stuff and they really like it that is really the only way in. Communication is important. Like if they said “Hey can you send in a track in for me?” You should be able to have good communication. We think there really isn’t a requirement, it is just a basic etiquette. Nothing really matters there is no high requirements other than communication and producing music and just keep being yourself.

Phillip: How often do you communicate often with other members of the collective?

W Prophet: Oh yea, definitely we talk a lot and share music. That is actually one thing I really like a lot about the collectives. Is we support each other a lot in a way. When somebody posts a new track than we get on it and repost it, comment and push it. We got each others backs.

Phillip: I saw your soundcloud timeline, it is quiet filled with a bunch of other users tracks that you repost. Are they friends, collective members?

W Prophet: Oh yea they are both. You know before I joined the collective I didn’t repost as much. But now I am supporting my fellow friends that do music and I really want to push there music as best as I can and they do the exact same for me. Most of the things I repost

90 they are either in the collective and if not they are people I’ve been close with for a long time, like we’ve been in some connection for long time. And we both just try to support each other.

Phillip: I also noticed that you have 79 tracks. Do you sell them or lease beats?

W Prophet: Actually my next move is to put my beat tapes that I’ve released on to bandcamp just in case someone wants to download it and support it. I have 79 Tracks but I don’t have the premium account for soundcloud. So I have to delete some of my track to upload more. I’ve definitely had uploaded over 100 songs the past year. But leasing beats I didn’t really never considered it cause I really like to have that special connection with someone and like build a relationship that way. I would sell my projects, my bodies of work as far as that brazil tape. And the new tape that I have coming up and I’m getting the artwork for it and everything situated. I have definitely plans of putting them on sale. I’ve had people tell me “ah yeah I’ll buy it!” So I keep that into consideration but for right now it is more about building with people and establishing relationship.

Phillip: I know Japan has a big hip-hop scene growing, is there a relation with you and Onsen records out of Japan?

W Prophet: I’ve actually that the Asian market and Japan they have a really hip-hop community that is booming. They are more receptive of hip-hop over there than over here in the way that they support it. So I’ve definitely looked into going into the hip-hop scene there and took that into consideration.

Phillip: You’re also part of late night collective and Soul-Echelon?

W Prophet: I started Soul-Echelon, it is my own personal collective that I am working on. It’s at a stand still for when I have a better plan and push it full force and really go forth with it. I’m also part of complex channel, out of berlin. But that is all my main ones I would say. I am also affiliated with some other ones but I am not in them I just contribute to their tapes and everything.

Phillip: What do you think of the current state of the music scene on Soundcoud? And does that prevent you from having real revenue streams?

W Prophet: No. But I am looking into get myself booked for shows. That is my main thing to do now. So now it is just about getting certain gigs, once I get to a certain point. There is a lot of same music. You have like lo-fi and other trendy genres on SoundCloud. It’s a certain genre that everyone goes after. I find it really important to be different and that is why I like FK so much cause we all have a different style. It is not a collective of the same genre of music and I feel like being different really pushes you further because people see that you’re making music not like the person next to you. They can hear that you have a certain feeling or vibe that stands out. And that creates different opportunities but stay consistent. I always tell younger beatmakers to be consistent, even though when you start out it is kind of hard to really find your sound. You don’t really even think about really trying to make a living from music. I always that it will come.

Phillip: You seem patient…

91 W Prophet: Oh yea! Patients is important I think for any career. When you go through those hardships you will feel good looking back on it. I tell this to the younger producers out there too. It’s all about patients and believe yourself and what you’re doing. The mental part is the good thing.

Phillip: You did mention earlier on in the interview about getting your artwork? How did you get this guy?

W Prophet: So for the Brazil tape, I made myself. I have another tape on the late night channel and another one that were made by Gazpacho the guy who brought me into FK. He is also a graphic artist, that is what he goes to school for and he really helped me out with that. We’ve known each other for a good 2-3 years before the attention we have. He always tells me when every I need artwork to hit him up and we discuss it and it happens and comes out really good. The Brazil tape is made by my uncle that is what he actually does for a profession. He does like artwork for different companies and he helps me out. Those two are the people I go to when I need art. My uncle isn’t part of the collective though he’s older and does his own thing. Gezpacho is in the collective.

Phillip: It’s cool to know how the internet has brought so many people together, have you met Gazpacho?

W Prophet: Nope. It is really cool though thinking about how the internet goes. Like Gazepaho is in France. And CDP is in Chicago. We’re all in different places and being able to connect and share and talk and collaborate and share ideas. It’s totally different from years ago when it was down geographical boundaries and you could only connect with those people around you. Not to say that wasn’t bad. But now it’s so broad you can connect with someone over in Africa. I can send work over to the UK easily and just kind of build friendship through that way. It’s not like you can never meet with them, since you have contact with them. It’s amazing?

Phillip: Have you ever met anyone in the collective?

W Prophet: No actually I was born in the DMV. I moved to Albuquerque. But there are some people in Maryland that I know that are in the collective. So when I go out there I will definitely try to meet up with them, easily. There is that. But everyone says where they are from and it’s good know that because when I am in a certain area I can be like “Hey, I’m in your area” and we can link up. Some people though have met each other K The Infinite met with the Entourage – when they both were in Spain at the same time. So there is always that.

Phillip: You as an artist how has the collective progressed your artistic work?

W Prophet: I feel like it has helped me out as far as creativity through how it pushes me. You know how they say surround yourself with either people as talented as you or more talented than you? That is really the principle that affects me. Because it pushes you to the crate. It inspires me. We inspire one another. When I did the Brazil tape. People were like ‘yo I made this track since I was inspired by that track.’ It is like a back and forth thing of sharing inspiration and creativity. Before joining the collective, I had no clue about them. I had know about some collectives. But once I joined FK I was glad I joined them.

92 Phillip: Do you think any of the collectives are competitive with one another? Or do you feel like you need to compete with others?

W Prophet: I don’t know. I guess it never came into play. It really never was competitive. Cause I know other collectives will get together to get a tape out or a project. I’ve even been on other collectives tapes as a producer feature. It has not been competitive. Well at least for now. We really all just do our own thing.

Phillip: You don’t play any managerial roles really, right?

W Prophet: No I really don’t play any managerial roles, Buuda is really in charge of that. If someone asks me for my opinion or my help I am more than willing to help to my best of my abilities. If I need to step to anything I will do it. If I need to be that role or that person I can do it. But that is never the case really. It is a more chill environment as far as it goes with the internet. We are all just friends and joke around with each other. We’re never really serious and we all make good music and push it and support it. When ever something good happens to one person we try to spread the word and inspire ourselves. We just try to support each other. If something good happens to one of us, it happens to all of us.

Phillip: Along the lines of Genre, what do you consider yourself to be?

W Prophet: That is a interesting question cause I’ve thought about that myself. But you know I make hip-hop that’s my main thing. I experiment, like my recent mixtape, I had heavy Brazilian influence but it still was hip-hop. I’ve experimented with electronic, trip-hop, lo-fi, I feel with my style it goes with what I feel. It’s really dependent on my mood I don’t really think about making a certain genre. Cause with it really doesn’t change so much. I’m inspired by a lot of things. I’ll go in a run of trying to make all types of things, beats, instrumental. If I make a movie soundtrack it’ll maybe sound like boom-bap. Something may sound close to Trap but it isn’t really trap. I can’t really pinpoint it. But I can’t really put myself in a certain genre. I really just produce whatever I feel.

Phillip: You mentioned that earlier with the collective of how it is a bunch of random sounds mixed together. It’s what makes the collective cool I think, with their ambiguous sound. So do you think generally collectives have their own unique sound?

W Prophet: Well there are certain collectives that have a specific sound, like focusing only on lo-fi. But then you have a collective that is more of an electronic/kaytranda sound with live synths. Then you have collectives like FK with all different sounds. Meanwhile subatomic is more focused on boom-bap with different sounds complementing it – but it changes still. And that is why I joined those two, because it is a mixture of random different sounds. It’s different people with different ideas, everyone not thinking the same and playing different type of music. And that is what makes us unique and better because different ideas come together and create something that is incredible.

Phillip: Would there happen to be a community board where you all communicate with one another?

W Prophet: Yea we have this group chat on google with FK. And we all chat with each other on there. We use twitter too with Subatomic. And Facebook is where I speak with onseen

93 records. The platforms change amongst collectives. We just go to a platform where we all can talk to one another and discuss collaborations.

Phillip: Do you know what each collective is about? Like FK could you help me define what their objectives are?

W Prophet: As far as objectives. It’s like that we are a team. FK is a family. We are like really in tune with each other. Our togetherness is really strong. That goes with everything, like us pushing each other. Like when I am reposting from certain people. Teamwork and family is our main thing. I think working together is what keeps the collective together too. Being able to have that communicating with each other as we do it helps a lot. Communication is key. It is very important. We have a lot of people in the collective so talking with each other is super important. It keeps us on the same page.

Phillip: I noticed out of the 37 members of your collective (FK), 36 members of you mention the collective names in your personal bio. That is significantly are then the other collectives I collected data from. And the average for collectives right now is 55%.

W Prophet: Wow. I think that shows how connected we are with each other. We want to show all my brothers love. That is why when I put out my Brazil tape, I could’ve put that out on any other collective. Or I could’ve put that out on my own page. But I wanted to bring the attention to FK that is why I put it out on their page. It definitely got the attention it did. I was glad cause that is how I wanted to help out. To get people to know who FK is and check out other members and bring attention to that. We’re strong and it’s just a fun place with all of us coming from different places. We genuinely enjoy each others music. We’re each others biggest fans and we stand over our music it’s a really dope experience.

Phillip: That is really nice to hear about FK. Then going to subatomic people tend to be less mentioning of the collectives name in their bio.

W Prophet: Yeah. Subatomic has been slow. Mostly Nick, has been really busy. So um we put out some tapes together. And we’ve been in talks in doing another one. But it is just getting him to get back into his orchestrator role. Like in the chat we’re always talking though. Like somebody like K the Infinate, is somebody who is always in both collectives, Subatomic and FK. I’m always down to collaborate with SubAtomic. I’ve never turned my eye from collaborating with somebody from there. And I’ve always show as much love as I can since that was the first collective I’ve joined so I’ve never go out leaving. That is my home as far as my first collective. But as far as recently, we still share music. But a lot of people have been busy with their personal life so they get distant but we still share music. So as for Subatomic there is a good amount of members but some of them have not been as invested you could say. But we still show love when ever we can. We still check in when we can. It has not been as forefront as before.

Phillip: What’s up with Sophie Mieres, she sort of blew up?

W Prophet: Yea she got pretty big. What is funny I worked with her. I remember the first time I actually worked with her on a project about a year or so ago. She hit me up about something but it was before I got better with my mixing. It was you know. We worked on something I don’t know if I still have the stuff. I don’t know how many tracks we worked on.

94 But she did take them down since then. We got into a lot of projects but I got to see her grow a lot.

Phillip: How about from the collective there hasn’t really been many people who’ve blown up?

W Prophet: As far as the members go, there are certain people like Gazpacho and Play. Play is from Virginia I work with him a lot, I actually brought him to the collective, he is from DMV too. He actually has his group breeze park and they’re pretty known. It’s all pretty connected, he may be solo and in the collective with FK, but then he has his group Breeze Park who are known in their own right. Though, Gazpacho recently got a couple of his tracks featured on Soulection a few times. That was dope! I like how we’re all growing with each other, we’re not all super big but we’re all happy where we are all at right now. And then when we do get to that certain place we’ll look back on the beginning since we were all there.

Phillip: And what about your feelings regarding being one of the memebers in the collective with a larger following count?

W Prophet: It’s funny seeing my following count now. I had no clue at the beginning. There are plenty of others who have more followers than me but to see where I am at now it’s pretty cool. When I started I wasn’t even at a 100 followers and I thought it was super hard. At one point I just wanted to get to 200, then 400. Now where I am at now, I don’t pay attention to it anymore I just like seeing people enjoy my music. And seeing people comment and all the love that they send me.

E-ratic FK (August 1st 2017) E-ratic: Yeah E-ratic is cool. Phillip: E-ratic you said it's cool? E-ratic: Yeah. Phillip: E-ratic do you have any questions for me before we jump in. E-ratic: Go ahead man let's go. Phillip: Alright, you have to sort of start off about you, sort of what's your age, where do you live, work education. E-ratic: Okay, I'm 23, I live in Lansing Michigan and I work part-time at a home health care agency as an office clerk and then I work full-time as like a sales representative for a phone company and education wise, I got my bachelor's at this place called Grand Valley State University, management. Phillip: Cool yeah, do you think having a degree in management helps you sort of manager yourself as an artist. E-ratic: I wouldn't say so because management is like I think something you learn in the field not so much from books. Phillip: I definitely agree with that. Going to now like your musical experience how long have you been sort of in the game? E-ratic: I've been writing for like a decade or more, but taking it seriously just for a couple years. Phillip: Okay, do you also produce. E-ratic: I have equipment too, but I have a guy into that part yet. Phillip: Okay do you have any musical experience? Instrument wise. E-ratic: I took piano lessons when I was a kid but I quit those and then I played the clarinet in middle school, but that's about it.

95 Phillip: Now you got your voice like you're actually the first vocal person that I'm actually even interviewing, everybody's been producers or graphic designer, so I was really interested in hearing sort of your perspectives on everything. How long have you been on sound cloud? E-ratic: Man not even that long my man, like maybe two years. Phillip: Okay and then how long have you been in FK? E-ratic: Man maybe a year maybe less man. Phillip: Okay so you're relatively new to that? E-ratic: Yeah. Phillip: And how did you get into FK? E-ratic: You know Hobbes? I think you have an interview with Hobbes coming up right? Phillip: No, I haven't got an interview with him but I would like to. E-ratic: So I think at the I think you're going to that guy hit me up for a collaboration and I believe the founder heard the collaboration and then he reached out to me, and then he asked if I wanted to join I was like hell yeah. Phillip: Easy as that. E-ratic: Pretty much. Phillip: Okay yeah then sort of like what's your opinion on FK and what it stands for and everything? E-ratic: You know FK is the dopest thing I've ever been a part of it's crazy how we're all over the world and like we still get soft get things done like Groot tracks and we have the Hangout chats, where we talk like every day. We share like tips experiences and we just joke it’s like, it's pretty smooth running and it's the dopest thing ever. Phillip: Okay it has the sort of helped you expand your sort of horizons? E-ratic: Definitely like, I can't I can't say how, I don't know what I'd be doing right now without FK, because I feel like I'm a part of something. Phillip: Okay and what this is sort of this something looked like if he could like describe it or imagine it down in the future? E-ratic: Well I just experienced that something last weekend, so I went out to a different state and did a show all because I knew a guy of FK like that's crazy. Phillip: Alright, then it was through FK that you got the show booked, do you have any other shows that you've sort of been able to perform because of FK? E-ratic: No, but that I'm hoping that last one was the first of many you know. Phillip: Yeah exactly you got to start somewhere and you're just a new in it anyways. E-ratic: Pretty new, yeah. Phillip: Do you think they sort of helped your sound cloud grow? E-ratic: Yeah I would say so I think I was on an upward trajectory anyway, but I think it helped a lot still. Phillip: Okay yeah you get a lot of track plays for having, I think it was like 550 followers and you got some tracks out there that have a couple of k plays. E-ratic: I'm thankful for that I think they're so short that people like they got it again. Phillip: Yeah then yeah how that was like a, how many collaborations have you already had with artists in FK? E-ratic: Let's see. I've had at least five. I wouldn't say I've had up to ten. Phillip: Okay. Do you have anything sort of cooking up, or is that both cooking up and out in the public as releases? E-ratic: I would say both cook ups and release would be somewhere around five or six. Phillip: okay that's cool and how does usually that work when they asked you to be on the track.

96 E-ratic: Sometimes like everybody in the group chat like yo man, I got this beat, who's down and then people like volunteer and then sometimes it's more of a one-on-one talking with the guy you want to collab with, so it is kind of whatever yeah. Phillip: Okay what type of group chat is this on? E-ratic: This is on the hangouts app you can have like as many people in it as you want and everybody is added to KF, it’s immediately added into the group chat. Phillip: Okay and then sort of introduce guys like hey this is a new artist. E-ratic: Yeah and then everyone says what up and then we start dropping music links and then we start giving compliments and then whatnot. Phillip: Yeah, then I also noticed that you're part of another label, that is a little bit smaller than FK? E-ratic: Then that label is why I have so much respect for FK because that one's new and it's real, it's not really moving anywhere because there's no direction the guy was like, hey let's just get a couple people together and start this thing and then we haven't done anything since a couple months, so it really makes me think like wow KF is like a smooth running machine like that's how you do a group you know what I mean. Phillip: What are the big differences you would say between the newly started up label that you're part of and FK? E-ratic: I'm actually invested in FK. I just joined this other label just I was like why not you know just put more eggs in more baskets. I don't really see this other label going anywhere to be honest, so yeah. Phillip: I understand that you're just sort of like get your eggs in as many baskets, but why don't you see masked mob going as far as FK? E-ratic: It's just a feeling because there's been, it was formed loosely, it was too quick there was no planning, no strategy and there's no there's no push to do things as a group, it's just I know it's going to I know it's going to fold it's been stagnant at the same number of followers for like months now and we haven't even spoken, so it's like it's just there. Phillip: What does sort of like FK expect from you? E-ratic: Participation. and even if I don't give them participation they don't expect too much because like we have people who don't even like show up for months and then they come and share some music then they leave again and it's still all good, so it's pretty relaxed. Phillip: Why do you think these people will like just disappear and then come back and then disappear again? E-ratic: Man there's people you know people are different. I'm the type of guy, that thinks that's selfish. But like other artists are just different people are different you know they don't really care whatever. Phillip: Yeah then where was the show that you went to that was out of Michigan? E-ratic: That was in a Pittsburgh it was it was so dope. It was me and Hobbs hopefully you'll get the chance to talk to him. Phillip: Was anybody else from FK there? E-ratic: No, but there is a hopeful my friend came with me and he makes music I'm trying to get him into FK, but he's not in it yet. Phillip: Okay have you already talked to FK about bringing him in? E-ratic: I talked to Hobbes and Hobbes is pretty high ranking in terms of having the power to do that and I texted the founder but he's in New York right now, so I don't, he didn't respond might be like busy or whatever. Phillip: Yeah, Buddha? E-ratic: Yeah I'm actually going to see him in a couple of days. Phillip: Yeah he's doing a lot of moves right now. I've been trying to get an interview with him but he's busy.

97 E-ratic: Yeah. Phillip: It seems like it is very friendly everybody says what's up to each other and you guys support each other, do you think that's a driving factor behind FK sort of growth? E-ratic: Definitely like everyone is on the same page and literally just wants to get bigger get more fans and like just help each other like straight up that's all we, that's all we want. Oh my God. I'd be nowhere without FK man. I think it's the greatest for connecting with other artists specifically, because you can comment on tracks and then they comment on your tracks and you start effing with each other and it's great. Phillip: Yeah then going down sort of like what do you think of the current state of music and where it’s heading? E-ratic: Rap music? Phillip: Yeah rap, go for it. E-ratic: Man I don't like where the mainstream is heading, I never have, because that doesn't represent my sound, but I still think it's very possible for a guy with my sound to make it, at a respectable level. I don't think guys like me will ever be as big as we want to be but I think rap music is definitely open if you have skill I think you can definitely get some fans suck it's pretty good, it's fair, fair game. Phillip: Do you think you have a good fan base going right now for you? E-ratic: Yeah I'm happy with what I got like I want more but I'm not going to complain because I remember where I was at a year or two ago never thinking I'd get to the point I am now so. I'm always happy. Phillip: Do you have a pro account? E-ratic: I do yeah, I pay that seven every month for the spotlight. Phillip: Okay yeah then with that do you know where most your listeners are coming from? E-ratic: You know what I haven't even checked that out which is crazy. Phillip: Yeah definitely like a take a dive into some of your analytics and maybe see what its like is. E-ratic: Yeah I'm definitely going to do that. Phillip: Yeah let me check through this. So yeah then going sort of on your own music, who are sort of like your forms of inspiration currently embassy. E-ratic: So currently I like Jcole. I like a bunch of artists that you probably never heard of honestly, like I really am big into sound cloud rappers, I could list a bunch of them but they're not at the point where like they're known. I like (…), he's pretty big I like Kyle. Phillip: Yeah you have a Kyle sound. E-ratic: Oh really. Phillip: There's parts in your flow where I was like, that influence came from Kyle. E-ratic: Oh yeah. I love that guy like oh man, so and then I love folks anybody from New York that's like old school Big L, NAS like anybody in an Eminem or biggest influence by far as Eminem like old-school Eminem, I definitely tried to copy his his inflection and his tone higher-pitched tone when he tries to rap and it's like his rhyme schemes. I don't know how well I did but like that's what I go for. Phillip: That's cool yeah just like I'm interested in knowing sort of the influences of that but you said a lot of rappers you listen to right now are Sound Cloud rappers. E-ratic: Oh hell yeah like definitely. Phillip: Yes, how big are they like it can you give me an example of one. E-ratic: Yeah like one is called his name is Dave B and he's from Seattle he's probably got like 20k, and then another guy is called Kalin raps he's probably got something and something in the case too like they're big, yeah you can’t compare to me and they're probably well known in some states but they're not on a national like recognition level you know what I mean.

98 Phillip: Yeah and that sort of seems to be what sound cloud is, it's like an underground. E-ratic: Yeah. Phillip: Going back to yours and everything. How much time do you spend like on branding and marketing yourself yeah? E-ratic: Low-key like zero man like, I have a weird perception I mean a weird view on marketing and branding like it's not me I'm really low-key by nature, so I just put the music out there and I like to tweet some links or show my friends, but I'm I don't have any skills at all in that department. Phillip: It’s not all about the skills it's just doing it or not in this it sounds like you're being very bohemian, that you're doing art for art's sake. E-ratic: Yeah but I also want to like market, I just don’t, I haven’t and I don’t know how. Phillip: Could you see FK as being sort of a marketing tool? E-ratic: Not really because like we're not we're not big like we have a lot of members, who are popular but as a collective we're not, we don’t have clout as a collective, but individually we do. Phillip: But then sort of through being part of the collective and the association sure if not the collective as the main followers, but through association you guys can sort of help each other out right. E-ratic: We can but, I don't that's not really how it works so far because like we're tight but we're not like super tight and it's you know I mean I don't know if someone has enough pull to help another reach another level you know what I mean. Like no one is at the point where they can like really assist someone else. Phillip: Yeah then what sort of is your criteria for reposting? E-ratic I think it's super dope, that's getting a repost I pretty much like whatever is KF just because like I feel like that's my duty, but I only repost what I think is actually super dope, and to be honest the Hobbs, me and Hobbs we have a tighter connection, I'll repost pretty much whatever he does even if I don't think it's worthy of a repost, I'll still do it just because I like Hobbs. Phillip: So that's cool and interesting to sort of get the hearing on what people's opinions are sort of their activity on it. Yeah then, let me think, have you ever been part of a band? E-ratic: I've been, I've been close man my first performance was with the band from my city. They're actually getting pretty big they're playing like festivals over all over the place. So I did a performance with that band and then we talked about me being the vocal leader like the rapper, but it is probably not going to happen. Phillip: Okay with the band your first performance? E-ratic: Man probably a year ago it's on YouTube. Phillip: Okay I'll check it out just out of my own curiosity I'll check it out .I saw you have a music video how many people did it take to shoot that? E-ratic: Three yeah. Phillip: It's like a low-budget that you did you spend any money for the music video. E-ratic: $0 because the guy who shot it was in film school and he needed something for his portfolio, so he did it for free. Phillip: Okay then how did you know the guy. E-ratic: Oh we went to high school together. I didn't talk to him for I didn't even we weren't even friends at high school, we were like we knew mutual people and then he found out I made music and they you know offered his services. Phillip: Yeah seems like a lot of artists that just sort of help each other out, when they can. E-ratic: Yeah for sure. Phillip: It's like an almost like a mutual relationship. . E-ratic: That's what I see it as for sure.

99 Phillip: Okay then, you only have one music video out right? E-ratic: Yeah we're working on the second one he actually flaked on me last night, so for editing our second music video but yeah. Phillip: Okay yeah then I'm going to your social media behavior and everything and when you're on Twitter, are you interacting mostly with people from the collective as well. E-ratic: That's probably who I interact with least. Yeah Phillip: Then is your sound cloud more oriented for you as an artist or you as a listener? E-ratic: Definitely both. Phillip: Okay. E-ratic: Yeah like I'm on sound cloud listening a lot, but I'll obviously still for me like I needed to I just needed to live. That's all I have really. Phillip: Okay it's like a baby pretty much .I respect yeah. What genre would you consider yourself part of I know it's a very broad question but I've been asking everybody. E-ratic :I would love to say I'm just I'm old school I know I feel like I'm not the more I look at my stuff, but I want to be considered as old school with a little bit of originalness or whatever. Phillip: [26:07] I hear the old school but there's definitely the post 2010 stuff that your delivery some of it, so I thought a cool word was neoclassical. E-ratic: I've heard that I don't know how to define that what is that? Phillip: well neo just means new and classic, so like classic hip-hop but the new version. E-ratic: I like that. Phillip: Yeah I think it would be a cool dubbing. E-ratic: I definitely like that I am going to roll with that from now on. Phillip: When you post your tracks I see that you put the other producers name in it, are they also part of FK? E-ratic: Sometimes they’re not but I like to throw props just whenever I can. Phillip: Okay are any of the songs published on your sound cloud from people from FK. E-ratic: I don't think so man, usually when I'm collabing with FK it's for the producer’s project so it goes on their page. for real yeah. Phillip: Okay that's yeah that's interesting I wish I interviewed another vocalist because then I would be able to have some form of measuring (…) E-ratic: Sorry for interrupt, but if you have time, you should interview calamity man he's like he's dope, he's a smart guy yeah. Phillip: That would be cool, because I've been trying to actually get a vocalist yeah then, so yeah then everything or is it has that ever been a track word they posted it only to FK and not the producer themselves. E-ratic: Yeah so we're supposed to be doing FK tracks every month and those tracks get posted to the FK page, it's only yeah. Phillip: Okay and a track has to be made every month by every member in the group? E-ratic: No like one member will make the beat and then we'll get together a bunch of vocalists to rap on that beat and that's considered like the root track and then we post that on the page. Phillip: Okay. E-ratic: And then we have a monthly forecast that's like a play on words with the name and then that's basically a bunch of instrumentals from the group, they make it into like a 20- minute track and then they post that on the FK page too. Phillip: Okay yeah I see that the forecast it's cool. Do you think there are sort of a between you and the other vocalists in the group do you think there's some competitiveness that goes off?

100 E-ratic: I mean that's what I feel like I would never make it known that I’m competing with them but yeah, I mean, yeah definitely. Phillip: Alright well man I don’t have any more questions. I appreciate the interview.

Transcript from 1st July 2017 with Pupil of NY

Phillip: Directed towards you, tell me a little bit about yourself. Your age? How long have you been in Brooklyn? What is your work/student experience? How did you get into producing yourself? Any prior musical experience?

PUPIL: I'm 24 years old, and have been living in Brooklyn for 2.5 years now. I grew up in Long Island, went to high school out in Manhattan, and went to college in Connecticut (UConn). After I graduated I moved back to NYC with my family but eventually moved out to Brooklyn (Williamsburg/Bushwick area) once I started working. I studied Agricultural and Resource Economics in school with a focus on Environmental Economics. I work in advertising now, doing media strategy and planning for my client Burberry (luxury fashion). I got into producing after learning how to DJ freshman year of college. I started gigging and hosting parties and began my career DJ and production career in my dorm room. I started teaching myself production via Youtube videos and eventually co-founded the Electronic Music Production club at UConn with my roommate at the time. I grew up playing percussion/drum kit, saxophone, cello, and even sang for a bit but honestly I don't remember any of that except the rhythm from percussions (which happened to be the instrument I played the longest). I guess it kind of plays into the type of music I'm into today!

I'd say a lot of the inspiration behind NY came from the DIY culture of Brooklyn, more especially Bushwick. It is an artist centric area within Brooklyn, which loads of people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and work hard. The collaboration out here is insane, and there is a culture of mutual support instead of competition. It truly is the greatest city on earth to be an artist

Phillip: When and why did you start NY? How did the formation of NY come about?

PUPIL: I started NY Collective in August 2015. It started out of my own frustration as a DJ/Producer. At the time I had less than 400 followers and despite all my efforts, I couldn't get any plays on my tracks. I would spend 50% of my time marketing my music and 50% of my time producing and I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere... So the idea of NY Collective was to bring like-minded producers together to help cross-promote each other and utilize our individual networks to create a larger reach. Oh and this was at the time where I was getting sick of all the major labels that were releasing the same carbon copies of the same track.

Phillip: How did the formation of NY come about?

PUPIL: I really liked a bunch of up-and-coming producers and felt there was nothing to connect these artists and put out good music to the world. NY was to be a centralized place where artists can be heard by more, and for listeners to have a go-to place to hear refreshingly innovative tracks that pushed the boundaries of house music. NY wasn't originally supposed to be a release platform, rather a place to repost the music by affiliated NY Collective artists. However, as time went on artists like myself got more and more frustrated with unresponsive labels and ignored demo submissions, so we began using the platform to do free download releases via fangates such as Hypeddit to increase our followers.

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Phillip: When did you start recruiting members outside of the NYC area?

PUPIL: NY has always been an online based collective. We were kind of backwards in the sense that most communities form in a local area but NY started with just me seeking other artists to collaborte with. When we first started, I began by reaching out to producers I stumbled across on soundcloud that I liked with <500 followers, requesting demos. As NY's follower count grew I began to ask artists with the same amount of followers (5k on NY = 5k artists). Even the NYC based guys (who live as close as 4 blocks away) started off as a Soundcloud private message. Crazy how things work out...

Phillip: I noticed “NY aims to create a community for like-minded producers to collaborate and inspire.” This community is spread across 4 continents. How do you stay connected?

PUPIL: Yes, while we are based in Brooklyn majority of our team resides in various cities around the world. NY has an "Artist Page" which acts as a lounge for all our 55+ NY artists to collaborate, critique, and connect. Most artists are already friends on Facebook and tend to private message each other when they wish to collaborate. Often times we also see artists post in the private group to offer a track up for collaboration. So then they move onto Project files which are then exported as 'stems' and then shared between the other producer(s) for them to add their own style to a track. NY as a collective/label does not facilitate the collaborations, most of these happen between the artists and these tracks are often released on other labels besides just NY.

Phillip: How has you as an artist, and the manager of the collective, impacted your artistic career?

PUPIL: Running NY has really changed everything. Like I mentioned before, I started off with 400 followers, I've amassed over 2,000 since then, just 2 years ago. I've been able to make key industry connections at major record labels and music blogs as a representative of the brand. The relationships built on behalf of NY not only benefit me but all the artists as well, as we often times call on our contacts for premieres and blog posts about our latest releases. As a result, some artists have seen growth of 1,000+ followers in just 3 months since joining and releasing with NY.

Phillip: What role does you as a manager play in the collaboration of two or more artists?

PUPIL: While I often make initial introductions between newer members of the NY crew to the others, all of our artists definitely utilize our network on their own and reach out to each other by themselves. We truly are a big family!

Phillip: You said how you had key connections with blogs and major labels. From my experience working with a major blog site often we would charge artists to do a premier, but offer discounts or free premiers for partners or artists with big names. What type of relationships have you made with these networks within the label?

PUPIL: As you can imagine, we cannot afford to pay big blogs or labels to promote our releases. Any premiere's or blog mentions we've had (Insomniac Events, EDM Sauce, Dance Music Northwest, etc.) all happened organically or through reaching out to contacts either

102 through friends or cold-calling. Luckily, because of our mission we've been able to secure a bunch of support for free. I think anyone who works in the industry has a shared a love for the music and can appreciate the value of artists coming together with the intention of progressing their careers. With that being said, NY artists handle their own paid promotions to push their releases. No one has offered us sponsorship opportunities although this is something we'd definitely be interested in. We haven't been asked for anything in return yet, although I'd be glad to accommodate with whatever tools/resources we may have.

Phillip: What is the criteria for taking on a new artist into the collective?

PUPIL: For an artist to be considered for NY they must submit a track for release consideration. If a track is approved by myself and the A&R team, I then speak with the artist to determine if they have the following characteristics:

Regular releases: this indicates not only is an artist producing regularly (and mastering their craft) but they are searching and submitting to labels/pages that will release their music for them Consistent quality: tracks should be consistent in quality across all recent releases, this indicates that their other tracks will be just as good moving forward. This indicates a bright future for the producer as well. Strives to pursue music career: while we support producers of all commitment levels, we can only afford to offer our resources to producers who are looking to pursue a career in music. We put a lot of time and effort in supporting our artists and we need to ensure that our artists are serious about their careers as we could be offering the same support to another artist instead.

Phillip: What are the requirements then, for them to stay within the collective?

PUPIL: Once the artists are invited to the NY team, they are part of the team for life! We do not have any criteria in order to preserve a spot within the collective, that is why we have the criteria.

Phillip: I noticed that you give your music away for free. Why is that?

PUPIL: There are a few reasons behind this. First of all, releasing music for free and being known as a free download channel attracts a lot of people. Once we've established a reputation for releasing quality music, everyone comes back knowing that everything they hear can be downloaded for free. Artists who release on NY with a free download get a fangate associated with their soundcloud URL. This fangate requires fans to become followers in order to download the files. This directly correlates to follower growth, which is our biggest offering to NY Collective artists. Second, no one buys music anymore. Well, that's not true… but way less people do now than ever. Even big releases on major labels won't pay much after all of the expenses and percentages you pay. Free downloads are a way for artists to take back control and get 100% of the benefits… In this case, more followers and an even bigger reach for future releases. Finally, and above all we're doing it for the fans. Who doesn't love free music? Giving our music out for free is a great way of connecting with our fans. While NY Collective will always be a free download platform, we did just launch NY Records which offers record deals/contracts to artists seeking revenue off their music (streaming and sales).

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Phillip: I’m assuming since your collective consists of artists - all taking different roles, your costs are relatively low? Are there any major costs? What about flows of revenue?

PUPIL: The beauty of having a self sufficient collective is that we barely have any costs. This is the only way we can operate for free and both host releases for artists and give away that music for free. While there are costs associated to running NY such as all the monthly subscriptions on Soundcloud, Hypeddit, etc, I pay this out of pocket as the owner of the collective. Besides that the only cost related to a release is track mastering which is handled by the artist. NY's revenue flow comes almost exclusively from events, but this is done on a local level. I plan/organize the NY Brooklyn events and profits from these events are split between the artists that performed and a small chunk goes to the NY marketing/event planning fund. Any NY events hosted in other cities (aka not planned by me) are up to the organizer on how they split the profits. I do not ask for any contribution to the NY fund for any events I didn't plan/host. I keep it this way to encourage NY artists in other major cities to team up and host events. This way the NY brand name can continue to grow recognition in all major cities around the world!

Phillip: How many events have you had? Do you gain sponsorships or are all the members chipping in their own resources?

PUPIL: We've probably have had 7+ events so far. Our first party was last August but we've only really began planning events seriously this spring/summer. For these, I act as a independent event planner so I handle any upfront costs and deduct that from the gross revenue before splitting the profits between partners, performers, and adding a small percentage the NY marketing/event planning fund. While members offer to chip in regularly, I prefer not to accept it as things tend to get messed up when money is involved. With that being said, the NYC based artists regularly donate their earnings from DJing NY events to the NY marketing fund as this typically directly benefits them as well. We're honestly just excited to be out at venues spinning with our friends (another thing that is incredibly difficult as a solo DJ/producer is to secure gigs). I'm super grateful that the artists show this level of dedication and reinvest their time/effort back into the group's growth. This group mentality is the fuel behind our continued growth.

Phillip: How did your A&R’s and managers come to the position that they are?

PUPIL: On our team, A&R managers all started as music producers who have released on our platform. The select handful of A&R managers were artists that I regularly speak to and trust their taste and judgement in music. These artists also have shown immense dedication to the NY team, taking on managerial roles from the beginning. Not only does the A&R team help approve tracks and connect with artists, but they help handle event planning operations as well. Many of the A&R team live in the NYC area and we regularly hang out and attend shows together! We also have a few other 'board members' that help with other aspects of operations. Gentleman for example, a producer that goes by Alien, is our sole graphic designer. Everything aspect of NY's operation is 100% self sufficient and done by our team our producers (including A&R managers, audio engineers, and graphic designer).

Phillip: Were your A&R managers also part of the initial team from the beginning? (School friends? Neighbors? Etc.)

104 PUPIL: No, and the A&R manager roles were only added to the team a few months ago. For the first 2 years I ran everything by myself but with the launch of the record label and local event planning, I've needed to delegate some of the day-to-day responsibilities to focus my efforts on NY's future. Our A&R managers are from all around the world (US, UK, Germany), but the majority of the managers are NYC based. This is simply because I get to hang out with these guys regularly and we've become close friends so I've gotten to know their tastes and trust them completely. However, everyone on NY started off with a private message on Soundcloud or a Facebook friend request. Soundcloud and Facebook are the 2 biggest networking and marketing tools when it comes to music! Never underestimate the power of a professional written message.

Knight NY (July 24th 2017)

Phillip: I know we have a short time, but thank you for the quick interview.

Knight: No worries let’s jump right into it!

Phillip: First off, please tell me a little bit about yourself? (Age, educational background, work background, are you an NYC native, how you got into music)

Knight: I am a 27 year old with a partial college education. I currently work a 9am-5pm desk job with Warby Parker in Manhattan but, am originally from Virginia. I have been involved in music my entire life. I have played multiple instruments, been in many bands, and started my electronic music career in 2009. Since then, I have dj’ed bars, clubs, venues, and house parties. I have been well versed in the art of dj’ing for a while now and have adapted my style from all of my previous experience.

Phillip: When and how did you get into the NY collective?

Knight: I joined NY collective in 2016 after sending Pupil (NY boss) a demo on soundcloud. From there it was history. Now I am part of the Board and am an A&R manager.

Phillip: What does NY mean to you?

Knight: NY means the world to me. It means a network of individuals who are dedicated to seeing each other succeed instead of trying to be the next big thing. We support everyone equally and try to make everyone around us thrive. When we have parties, we dedicate our time to meeting everyone and ensuring that our guests are having just as good of a time as we are. It means doing music for the betterment of the scene, not the individual.

Phillip: As an A&R manager, what does that entail for a collective like NY? How do you help develop these artist? I also see the collective has multiple A&Rs. Are you assigned specific artists?

Knight: The structure of the collective has changed somewhat since the beginning. Now that we have the record label, A&R for the collective is mainly targeted at bringing on young artists with no direct outlet to distribute their music. As we watch them grow and develop, we can push them to the label if their skill improvement is appropriate.

105 Phillip: Are there any contractual agreements?

Knight: The collective has no contractual agreements at this time.

Phillip: Have there been any significant challenges with managing artists?

Knight: At this time we haven’t had any issues at all. We mention the culture and outlook of the collective before we even bring the artist on board. If they are not interested in that culture it probably isn’t the right fit for either of us.

Phillip: I see your last self produced track was 8 months ago, and I also see you make mixes. Are you more a DJ or producer for the NY team? Do you play in front of crowds too?

Knight: I am heavily integrated into the NY crew. June was a big month for me as I had 3 new releases come out. I am a producer first, however, I do play many shows (almost 4-5 per month) as well.

Phillip: As both an artist and manager what would you say is the ratio between these two duties?

Knight: I’d say the artist duties far outweigh the manager duties at the moment. Things should be changing though as the label gets bigger and Pupil starts to handle that media stream more.

Phillip: How much time a week do you spend working with the NY team?

Knight: I’d say I spend about 15-20 hours a week on NY related projects.

Phillip: After speaking with Pupil and Gentleman - I think you guys are pretty awesome and seem to still have the drive to keep things going. Do you feel as if this is going to be a longer term project and if so are you in it till the end?

Knight: I do feel as though this is a long term project. I really hope that I see it until the end, and sincerely hope that we can push NY into a very professional setting. I love how dedicated we all are to the collective and can’t wait to see what the future holds.

Phillip: Both Pupil and Gentleman, seemed to be very loyal and intrinsically involved with the NY team, do you feel that yourself? What about other members too?

Knight: As I mentioned before, I believe that every artist we bring on board feels that same sense of loyalty to the brand. This loyalty is infectious and something we try to express to everyone involved. I do everything I can to promote us, and feel deeply attached to the brand as a whole.

Phillip: Do you feel as if there are any competitive pressures (from other collectives) when it comes to getting exposure to both you as an artist and the collective in its entirety?

Knight: I think the most important part to this business is not concerning yourself with anyone else. As long as we are focused on our goals, it should all fall into place!

106 Phillip: Do you feel you have access to the resources you need? Please explain which ones you feel are crucial to you? And which ones are missing?

Knight: Sometimes it feels as though we lack resources we need. As we have started to plan events, obviously money is the largest playing factor. That being said, the resources we have within the music industry on becoming a successful collective have been essential to us thriving. Because we don’t take the stance of “we will hurt/use anyone to succeed” which you see in the industry a lot, many people are happy to help. We are dedicated to giving back any help we receive in any way that we can as well. But hey sorry that I have to cut you off so quickly. It seemed you had some good questions but I need to catch my next meeting… thanks for your interest in NY.

Phillip: Thank you for your time. We’ll be in touch.

Knight: Alright will do, thank you!

Gentleman from NY (9th of July)

Phillip: Now, do you want to just talk straight into some of the questions.

Gentleman: Yes, sure.

PHILLIP: All right, cool. First go along the lines of yourself, how old are you? Do you work/study?

GENTLEMAN: Oh well, I am twenty one. I was at University than I dropped out.

PHILLIP: What were you studying?

GENTLEMAN: Digital media.

PHILLIP: Do you care to share why you dropped out?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I just, I don’t really like people telling me what to do, I like to do things on my way, I guess. I was there a year and a half, about halfway to second year I was getting good grades and stuff but it just wasn’t for me.

PHILLIP: Where did you came from?

GENTLEMAN: Portsmouth right at the bottom of the country.

PHILLIP: Cool. And you just said that school really wasn't for you and was that may be related to try to pursuing a career in the arts?

GENTLEMAN: I guess so, I didn’t really know what exactly what I wanted to do, but it just felt like we’ve created a subjects I didn’t want someone telling me out be creative. Feels wrong.

PHILLIP: Yeah I heard first off that you're doing art for NY?

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GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I didn’t actually mean to start doing it. I made, you know that NY logo, that square? I made that like as a cover plate for myself. Pupil then wrote me and said how he liked it and that I should send him that, and then, one thing lead to another. yeah, now I pretty much do art work.

PHILLIP: That’s cool, do you do it for all the artists, like that contact you or you go through Pupil?

GENTLEMAN: It’s always been going through Pupil about for me. The most recent one though the artist went directly to me, it’s probably easier that way, because Pupil is an unnecessarily middle man, it probably would probably piss him off a bit if they had to always go through him and back and forth between us artists.

PHILLIP: And when did you get into producing?

GENTLEMAN: Oh well, that was say about four-five years ago, something like that, Back in college, like the U.K. College so basically school.

PHILLIP: I can tell from like your sound quality that you've been at it for a while so.

GENTLEMAN: Oh thanks, I don’t really think that, I mean, I have no idea what I am doing, when it comes to it. I literally go to youtube and watch tutorials and stuff. Yeah, I never actually have like an official lot less in how to do things properly or anything so, if I show you some of my projects files then you probably will be like disgusted with malpractice.

PHILLIP: Do you have any musical experience?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I play drums since I can remember, I am always like, in high school I was probably like a proper metal head, I guess I was not really in the electronic music stuff. And when I went on college I just completely flipped in my new way.

PHILLIP: There's like a lot of people in the industry who do especially in electronic like dubstep, there's a lot of people who were in sort of like heavy metal or heavy rock and they.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. That’s where I was going to first, like dubstep, and then going back to other electronic scene now.

PHILLIP: Oh dude, cool. Yeah so, do you think that helps you as an artists having this experience? Or did you gain inspiration?

GENTLEMAN: Probably, I think it definitely helps how to play drums, because I mean, a lot of electronic music is pretty much just like sort about the beat and stuff, I guess that helps a lot. I am able to like, just like being in the drum with my keyboards, it’s pretty nifty. And then I guess, when I first listened to it, it’s kind of stuff and I’d listen to Skrillex and stuff like that, that gross step that kind of, uh music, but now a lot of people tell I suppose, but I break into in the middle of that, at last woke me into it, and then after that, I start listening to more minimalistic house, deep house, and then, now I listen to more like U.K. bass line more the DJ key stuff.

108 PHILLIP: Oh cool, cool man. Yeah, he’s got a bad reputation within the community but he did so much for it.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, exactly, you can’t knock that like, he still is an incredible producer.

PHILLIP: Yeah, yeah, it’s a, he's making pop hits, for like everyone so, he does both sides of the spectrum.

GENTLEMAN: He gets the definite respect for me.

PHILLIP: Cool, cool. Yeah and then, how did you get into NY?

GENTLEMAN: I was just putting music on my Soundcloud, my tracks I was making non stop, I like, I think I had like 70 followers or something like that, and then Pupil messaged me, he some how found me. And then he sent me this really inspiring, really emphasized the community vibe and emphasized how he wanted to create these goals and aspirations and stuff. I was like, oh yeah, I want to get a hold of that, so yeah, that is pretty much it - Pupil just contacted me.

PHILLIP: NY seems to really emphasis this community orientation?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely it’s like, it really emphasizes this whole like we are all in this together, you chose success so I help you, you help me. Sort of this, thing. It’s really good. We’re all from different worlds..

PHILLIP: Do you communicate much with these other artist across the countries, do you work with them?

GENTLEMAN: I am not very good at working with another people when it comes to music, I’ve tried two times, not online, actually it would be like local people doing a workout, I always, because it’s something that I’d go like on to the NY group chat and I’ll try to help out as much as I can. Then again, I am like, I don’t want to give any advice, because I don’t have any idea of what I am doing, so I tend to stay quiet in the sidelines.

PHILLIP: Really?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I can see online that there is this big community spirit, stuff and even thou I may not be like a the big member of that community.

PHILLIP: Do you think that NY, and that sort of helped you grow, because you said you had only seventy followers?

GENTLEMAN: Definitely. I had like seventy followers, It wasn’t really having many followers, it was just like family and lot of friends, maybe my mom was following me. them all follow me and one another , I was like, yeah, that’s how I was going to stay basically stay like that cause I saw it just as a side project. And then after Pupil like contacted me, it was 6 months, then I was at about 1000 followers. The growth was insane!

PHILLIP: When did he contact you?

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GENTLEMAN: He contacted me around august 2015, must be really around that time, I think, because it’s always one of the first guys in it was him, and like three other guys and then me, yeah.

PHILLIP: He contacted you on August, so you saw sort of the development. Did you sort of like put on others artist … into the collective?

GENTLEMAN: No, I am not really, that was definitely Pupil’s side of things he’s a lot better at it, I guess he’s a little personal when recruiting people with stuff, even thou he was always showing me the new artist and I would be like that is sick, that is sick. I guess, I never actually actively look for people.

PHILLIP: OK, so, it seems like you were in a quite solid foundation for the collective, but you are much more passive?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. …

PHILLIP: Dude, there is a bunch of collectives that work that way and you know there’s a, you said you don’t necessarily do well working with another people so it’s just easier to do it yourself.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. I feel like my role is to just stand to attention for when Pupil wants me to do something, and then I’ll do what he wants me to do, or when he would ask me to do something, then I do what he wants to do but, I wouldn’t actively take control of anything. It’s Easier.

PHILLIP: Regarding Art, do you lease or sell any of your beats or work?

GENTLEMAN: Like, do I sell any of it? Selling it?

PHILLIP: Yeah.

GENTLEMAN: No, I avoid, I just release them on my Soundcloud for free or like give them to some Soundcloud collective I like and stuff, that’s what I do with that. It’d be pretty cool, if I could be making money off of it but I don’t think I’ll make much.

PHILLIP: Sort of speaking on the industry level, do you sort of see the current state of the music industry and see that a lot of artists are doing free downloads?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, definitely like, it’s rare to see someone, unless you’re like a really big artist, it’s rare to see someone actually like releasing tempo of tracks. I definitely don’t, I don’t know, it doesn’t feel like that’s the way to go anymore, people want to get like heard and you want to grow a fanbase, because there is so much free music, like I’ll go through Soundcloud, and litereally download the free downloads, it’s just like screw paying seventy P for that, there is so much to choose from it you might as well go get the free stuff.

PHILLIP: True, so true. Regarding revenue streams through music, do you have any revenue streams?

110 GENTLEMAN: No, no real earning happens from this.

PHILLIP: Have you had any gigs?

GENTLEMAN: Ah, like three, again, I don’t see myself as a very good D.J., so I tend to stay away from that, only when people ask, for someone who comes to me on my Soundcloud, said ‘Do you want to do this gig?’ I said to them I don’t advertise as D.J., so don’t expect anything like great, they all have been really good, I didn’t really get paid for it, I was just doing it for like the fun of it.

PHILLIP: That’s sort of what I’ve been hearing, so then, regarding to sort of make money, do you work on the side?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I do, I am a stock trader. Yeah, really boring. That’s how I make my money, well, I keep the money part separate and the music side of it stays the fun the side of things, so keeping the money free from my fun, I think is the way to go for me anyway.

PHILLIP: OK, then, how much time do you dedicate to work and dedicate to the music?

GENTLEMAN: I wake up every morning at eight, fifty eight, I tend to play spam trade about between nine and half nine, that takes maybe half an hour, and I am over to made my money for the day. I am going to then spend the rest of the day to like focus on the creative stuff, stuff actually that interest me.

PHILLIP: Now, that is interesting, because that sounds sort of like the life?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, as soon as I say it, someone is going oh, tell me more, tell me more.

PHILLIP: Yeah, that seems like actually a really good job to have, so you can focus on your arts?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely large, well, I where I am at right now, it’s probably like the dream set up for me anyways, so, making my money and I only make the amount of money that I need. I don’t need to make sums of money, but enough to live comfortably, and that takes about a few hours in the morning and that’s it, you get the rest of the day to focus on the fun stuff.

PHILLIP: It sounds like a lot of free time?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. But I keep myself busy, I don’t really sit on the sofa watching T.V. or like playing video games. I always try to be producing or creating something?

PHILLIP: So do you do music more for yourself or are you trying to get a career going in the music industry?

GENTLEMAN: Ah, it’s definitely for myself…. Yeah, I don’t even know if I want a career, but then I don’t know if it will take the fun out of it…. But may be I’ll want a career… Yea so about three years ago I was really into it web development, web design, and then people started to pay me for that kind of stuff, and I sort of just completely lost interest in it. Because

111 yeah, it’s just weird … I guess, I don’t want to rely on the thing I am having fun with as a source of income, it’s just the way I like to live, if you get me.

PHILLIP: But hypothetically speaking if you were to start making off music you’ve made for yourself, would that be conflict of interest or conflict of interest lie in you having to meet the demands of your fans?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, not really. I guess I suppose I don’t mind earning money, because it’s like if I could still have fun with it and earn money. I don’t want to be the guy selling music cause music should be free. But it isn’t a goal.

PHILLIP: Being part of the collective, it seems like they're not really earning money for it, they're just to out there make music for people?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. Definitely thats always been a thing Pupil has been trying to nail into everyone it’s not about material gain.

PHILLIP: That’s sort of what this collectors have, it's a new frontier to be part an online collective right now.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

PHILLIP: And that's sort of why I'm looking into this because five years down the road these collectives can have significant ….

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah I mean with NY’s growth it’s been insane - in my opinion. And to say so, five years down the road I don’t know how big they will be.

PHILLIP: Yeah just, do you see yourself being with the collective for life?

GENTLEMAN: I guess so, I mean, if he wants me to keep making artwork for him, cause this is fun. I mean, he may find someone better and may say that he doesn’t need me anymore than that is cool too. Yeah for as long as they need me then, I can do it.

PHILLIP: I’m just quick looking at the spreadsheets for NY. One thing I notice is a lot of NY members mention in their SoundCloud description that they are part of the NY.

GENTLEMAN: Oh yeah.

PHILLIP: Yes, do you have the reasoning for putting up there?

GENTLEMAN: I can’t even remember, do I have it there?

PHILLIP: Yeah, you have it in your description.

GENTLEMAN: I can’t remember if that was my choice so, I don’t remember being asked to do that. Sorry, wish I could do more help with that, I don’t think it’s like a requirement.

PHILLIP: And then also, are you part of any other collectives?

112 GENTLEMAN: Not really there is, was it a articulate sound, that’s like the U.K. collective. I guess I do, I released a few tracks through them like, and articulate sound is put me in their Facebook group, when I released a few tracks on their Soundcloud. But I wouldn’t consider myself like part of that, I don’t feel like I’ve contributed to the group at all like the way I have with NY.

PHILLIP: OK, that’s good, it's interesting. And then, have you released any tracks on both of the collectives?

GENTLEMAN: Oh, no, no, no. are you allowed to do that?

PHILLIP: Well, it depends is there a contractual agreement?

GENTLEMAN: Not really. So, they just, oh yeah, have you released this yet? I am like no, they say, oh we’ll take that off you and release it for you. So I’m like OK, cool. I send them the file and they release it, but no, I never actually put one on two collectives.

PHILLIP: Have you ever signed a contract music or anything?

GENTLEMAN: No, I haven’t. Before NY I never contacted me, one other record label contact me, and they were like‘yeah we like this track and this track, sign here, there and here.’ And that they would release it, and that was really uninspired so I am just, like nah.

PHILLIP: It’s cool. Yeah and it seems sort of like a lot of these collectives don't have really any contractual agreements, but it's more just verbal commitment.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, definitely, I thing it just should stay that way, like, the whole future show success, doesn’t like need contracts or like legal biding documents or anything like that. It’s just, when you release the track on there, it’s going to help the group, the collective and then when someone else sees it, I don’t know how to put it into words but it’s just a butterfly effect sort of thing.

PHILLIP: Going back to art work, how many pieces have you done, you’ve done everything for the NY regarding graphics, right?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I am pretty sure that pretty much ever release on NY like every promotional, visual work has been done by me.

PHILLIP: What is the artistic process that you go through when working for or creating a graphic for artist?

GENTLEMAN: Usually when it comes to doing a visual artwork Pupil will send me the private tracks. Pre-release, they send to me the private tracks, saying how we will release it on this date, and it is usually like two months down the line, and he’s always like no rush you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to but then I obviously want to. And then I listen to their music and usually as I’m listening to it open up Photoshop, or Illustrator or whatever, I just like to mess around, with shapes and all what.

PHILLIP: And you usually have just that one draft and that’s used?

113 GENTLEMAN: Yeah, I’ll make like, usually two to three different, I try to make them as different as possible. And Pupil will often give me a lot of keywords like, for ‘My captain’ he gave me keywords like airplane, sky, and the colors that came to mind. And then like yeah, go, and then I’ll get back to him in like a few days of time of my interpretation of that. It usually takes.

PHILLIP: OK, has there been a time where he has been like “Gentleman, can we try this again?”

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, he’s always really nice about it, sometimes I might send something and he will be like, “umm we will see what they say or just like we’ll wait a bit.” But then I am just like, OK, I will make a few more things, and then I just through him some new artwork, and he will be, OK, that one is cool.

PHILLIP: That’s cool, so, it seems like you have a pretty tight and cool relationship with Pupil.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely. He offer to like pay me a few times, and I always try to turn it down. Though he has just paypal’d me money. I don’t want to like have payments. because I like the idea of him being able to say nah that sucks, because if he is paying for it then it makes me feel bad if you get what I mean?

PHILLIP: Yes, because that's sort of like, all of the sudden the justification arises for him becoming your boss?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don’t want him to be paying me because it feels like I should actual be having the responsibility to get him the sick artwork. As the better way of putting it. I don’t like being being obliged to do anything, and usually, whenever he asks me he says ‘oh, there is no rush,’ ‘you don’t need to do this,’ that makes me want to do it more, I don’t know why

PHILLIP: That’s funny. Like, do you ever socialize with them over to some other things not related to NY?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, we chat quite frequently, yeah it's like random shit and some like dumb political thing is going in the U.K., and he will be like oh, I say like oh what is it like in the U.K. right now with Teresa May being Teresa May.

PHILLIP: So you have a relationship outside of NY?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, definitely, yeah he always talks to me about making music and stuff, and not in like in relation to the collective. Just like friends to friends like ‘how is it going?’ Well, I pretty much stopped producing music now because sort of gave up on it, and like about four or five months he was messaging me “oh, what’s going on, you’re still like having trouble making music?” And now he is always checking in.

PHILLIP: Gentleman, you just said you haven’t made much music Gentleman, is there a reasoning to that or you just stick to graphic right now?

114 GENTLEMAN: Yeah, it’s just it’s frustrate me to make it a lot of the time. Most of the tracks I made I released with them I just got pissed off an annoyed because I can’t get it the way I want. Like, everything I released on my Soundcloud, I really don’t like yet, I tend so to just sit them all sort of some failures in my eyes, because I just give up on them cause this track and walk away because I was tired of just going through that frustration all the time, so I just, screw this.

PHILLIP: OK. Yeah, that’s a thing that artists can also suffer from is, almost like that perfectionist mentality, where you want it exactly right sort of, because you can’t get that thing right, it’s just you throw it out there. But sometimes when you feel about that, that actually is right, to the people.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, to be fair like, the people who get it is always really good, now that sounds sick man, and yeah, that’s like a good feeling, I guess. It’s the actual process of making a track it’s just like, mentally draining, because I just get really frustrated, pissed off.

PHILLIP: OK, now that’s a lot of people actually sort of suffer from that in the sense that you're your toughest critic.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

PHILLIP: There's some perfectionist out there like Tyler the Creator, he tries to be a perfectionist and he even released one of his albums, ‘Wolf,’ and he released it only because he couldn’t let go of it till it was already out there.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. That’s usually what I do when I am like, producing, to me it feels like quitting. Nothing is ever finished and I just keep going back to the project and take things out and usually I end up just obsessing while I create, so it doesn’t even sound like what was supposed to sound like. So I just have to call it quits leave this now, just step away and release it, and yeah, that seems to be my workflow.

PHILLIP: Oh yeah, you do, I see you re-post a lot of music unto your Soundcloud.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, that tends to be because of Hypeddit, you know it?

PHILLIP: Hypeddit? The download gate.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah. …, yeah, yeah, usually all those re-post are from me trying to download something re-post it.

PHILLIP: OK. Yeah, I was going to ask, do you download just for yourself? Or DJing?

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, because, I got my turntables there, I don’t actually like go out in public and D.J. stuff but I usually have my friends over and most weekends we get them out and just like mess around on the turn tables and yeah, it’s cool. I like the act of going through Soundcloud or any platform of music share sites and then impressive everyone when I found something pretty cool.

PHILLIP: Do you have any friends that produces with you? like you said you tried producing with somebody in your town.

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GENTLEMAN: Yeah, that was just down there a year ago, it’s like local D.J. producer, he is, he got more followers than me, he has way more gigs than me and stuff. Yeah, he is pretty like big, I guess, locally, and so he messages me and was like “we should collaborate.” And I was oh, well, this guy wants to collaborate with me, for me this just sounded pretty cool. So he said “yea come to my studio.” And when I go there he sort of like took a backseat and he is just like “right, go!” And so I started to put loads of stuff down and he was like oh, “what you are doing there?” “What are you doing there?” and I was like, “this is pretty basic…” and the more I listened to his stuff and the more I did I start to identify that he was just taking a lot of samples and a lots of sample packs and just rearranging them into a lot of templates and stuff. And that sort of like annoyed me a bit because he was like way bigger than me. And he seemed like he didn’t know anything, I guess that was disheartening in a sense that people can get really big from just like dragging and dropping, and I didn’t even really want to work with him after that.

PHILLIP: Oh, wow. So you sort of like, went into the studio you were definitely feeling like you had more skills?

GENTLEMAN: I suppose so, it’s not always like telling my nose up like you’re an amateur, but um I can’t work with someone.

PHILLIP: Yeah, I don’t think, you don’t seem to be somebody who's actually sort of a cocky being like, oh, these guys are amateur, but like you are much more reserved and you're just going to do what you did and then leave.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that’s probably another thing that piss me off with a lot of other DJ’s I’ve met they have quite big egos and it feels like that’s how you get forward, like in the D.J. game - to be a ruthless promoter of yourself and I don’t like that.

PHILLIP: Unfortunately, yeah. I've been around some. So yeah, they have this airs into them. What genre would you sort of identify yourself with?

GENTLEMAN: I guess the U.K. bassline scene. Yeah, yeah that’s literally the events that I go to. But mostly the music I release isn’t complete U.K. baseline it’s also base house, I guess.

PHILLIP: You seem very independent so, when I ask about influence it seems like you are your own influence through sort of what you listen to?

GENTLEMAN: I suppose so, yeah. I like to think so, but I really like Chris Lorenzo thou, I think … I guess, I mean that’s what I would define as an influence, is when I listen to … then I actually start reading into … but then I try to found out … is I try to copy that and I definitely … to get where he is now, he spends pretty much every single day in studio just like just going on the things and practicing, I guess … this practice.

PHILLIP: Yeah, that’s a, that's sort of how, at least I feel, I do, I also produce and I do watch a bunch of interviews.

PHILLIP: Yeah, Gentleman, have you actually met any of the members of the collective?

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GENTLEMAN: No, I never actually heard their voices.

PHILLIP: That’s cool, that really was a cool thing about the internet.

GENTLEMAN: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

PHILLIP: OK, then Gentleman, are there questions?

GENTLEMAN: I can’t think about one.

PHILLIP: Well then thank you very much for your time. We’ll be in touch.

GENTLEMAN: Cheers!

Madman from Lonely (June 30th 2017)

Phillip: To start off you’re part of the Lonelys collective correct?

Madman: I do have to Lonelys is not really active any more.

Phillip: Then why are you guys ‘not really’ active?

Madman: I can tell you quickly about the history of Lonely. Started in 2015. Or 2016. Me, Verzatchi, and Sophie Meiers, were talking to some guy who wanted to start up a label and he asked all of us. Hey do you guys want to get on my label going together? So things got a bit weird in the chat. So then we were messaging each other individually, should we? Should we not? How about we just Do-it-ourselves? We were like fuck this manager guy and take our faith into our own hands. And then we created this chat for us artists… To be honest I am not a big fan of these online chats because if you don’t look at it for 5 minutes then you don’t know what is being talked about. One time I released a song up on there which really wasn’t like we really weren’t having a scope. So we decided let us start-up a collective and share some songs on our Soundcloud. That is were it ended really. We didn’t post anything after a few songs.

Phillip: I saw on twitter you said more coming soon, back in May.

Madman: Well I really don’t know who is running the Lonely page. I really only know Verzatchi and Sophie Meiers. Those are really the only guys I talked to back then. So I do not really know who the owner is cause they messaged me and said ‘hey do you have any new music?’ and I said ‘yea’ but then never heard anything from them again. So maybe there is some new music coming.

Phillip: It’s interesting that you really don’t know who the owner is…

Madman: Well I know that it is somebody within Lonely.. Like VND… that is far as I know.

Phillip: First and foremost how old are you?

117 Madman: 21.

Phillip: Are you a student on the side?

Madman: I am also doing a graduates projects for Phillips right now. So I know what you’re in man.

Phillip: Ah thank you. And what are you studying?

Madman: Media entertainment management. I don’t think it’s so dope. Cause I’m mostly working with video and not audio. And I like working with audio more than video. Video is like okay, I know how to edit stuff a bit of how to photoshop but its not like “OH YEAAA great graphic design” and editing videos, you know? I wanted to study music after this and I got rejected. It’s fucked up.

Phillip: You know a lot of people will go study one thing and work in an entirely different field. So I’m wondering if you’d be interested in pursuing a career in music?

Madman: So the study I wanted to attend was more focusing on you know work in FL and Ableton. But they also show what else you can do with it. Such as compose for a cartoon or commericals, like that kind of stuff. So I wanted to do something with audio but not specifically music production. It’d be cool if that could happen but don’t get me wrong, I’m being realistic here. What if it doesn’t happen, I’d like to have another education on some audio engineering for movies or something. Like being known for stuff offstage instead of onstage.

Phillip: So there is this concept called scuffling where an artist works one career for financial necessity and the rest of the time is spent on their own creative work. Do you see yourself possibly doing that?

Madman: Yea definitely, it is not something I want to stop doing. Its something I’d like to further develop. I’d like a job where after you’re done working you can still mentally process stuff. Instead of this 9-5 stuff I’m doing now. I’m home at about half past 6 everyday and wake up 10 past 7 and its very draining to have such a job. I’d like to have something less tiring.

Phillip: Do you think what you’re studying could aid your own plans for being an artist?

Madman: No it’s more for working at like a TV station more commercial media. Yea I really don’t want to do this.

Phillip: Awh man, don’t knock yourself maybe you’ll go through it and connected with the right people, it’s a networking process to it too.

Madman: Definitely man, but the whole studying for music was also having 4 more years of studying time and being a student it’s something I really like. It wasn’t really for the music I was doing that yea. It is more for the experience of living Utrecht and doing all this stuff you’re doing in school.

Phillip: Where are you based out of then?

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Madman: Rosmalen, It’s like near Den Bos. It’s fucked up city. It’s like everyone is like God… how do you say it… They all have this northern accent and they’re gazelich. And in Utrecht people are more. Like in Rosmalen, everyone knows each other so it makes it really difficult like if someone does something weird here people are like ‘oh my god you’re fucking weird’ and they’re all saying ‘lets listen to commercial music guys.’ I don’t know man.

Phillip: Big city music is more your thing?

Madman: It’s like big city music they’re focusing more on something. You’re part of something bigger than a small town you know? Better to go to a big city like Amsterdam or Utrecht.

Phillip: Do you happen to DJ?

Madman: Yea

Phillip: Did you start DJing before producing?

Madman: No. I really like being looked in a room for 8 hours and just make music. Not like that is possible anymore, unfortunately. But that’s not more my thing playing songs.

Phillip: I do see you lease your beats.

Madman: Yea I am making some money through it.

Phillip: What’s your opinion on mass production of beats and further selling them.

Madman: I think mass production is definitely important at the way beginning. As far as only creating beats for other guys it’d be really cool if that is also a way to get the Kuiters sound out there.

Phillip: I heard your music and it sounds like rappers want to be leasing your beats, so who’s mostly purchasing your beats?

Madman: Oh yea they’re mostly rappers, to my knowledge at least.

Phillip: Where do most of these rappers come from? Do you have any contact with them?

Madman: haha so, like some of these guys are from f***ing Korea. Like this one guy Mad Clown has like 5k followers on Soundcloud and then he sent me a youtube link and it had like 12 million views. Yea man. It really was just that. It’s Korean music and I really don’t understand it I guess.

Phillip: What genre would you say you are part of?

Madman: I use to say I am a future bass producer. But I do now have to say that the genre future bass is blowing up in a commercially way, like Coldplay and Chainsmokers claim to be future bass now. It’s just that these sounds have already been made 3 years ago. People

119 then would ask me what sounds do you make and I’d say ‘Future bass’ but then these people wouldn’t really know what I mean and they think I am this genre [One with Cold play and Chainsmokers.] So now I say future beats oriented. And if somebody asked me who has no clue about it they’d say it’s like Hip-Hop meets video game music/EDM. I just don’t want to be identified with that radio stuff, because it is just like god even my dad likes this stuff.

Phillip: I saw your SoundCloud has been active for 2 years ago, if not longer? Is that around when you started making music?

Madman: I started making making music August 2013. I was done with High School and I was on vacation and new this guy named Sevant. He played like 8-bit stuff and I really digged the sound of it and saw what program he was using. I then was like okay let’s go and then 4-years late I got here and I made a lot of friends through music and that is fucking awesome.

Phillip: Where did you make these friends?

Madman: SoundCloud. It is like when you just start out it is very important to look around you and see what other people are doing. I was working with Instupendo and OCTBR and these guys started about at the same time I started and we just hit each other up. Complementing each others music back when they had like 300 followers, now they have like 20k and 60k each. I don’t know how relevant this is but once they start getting up there in follower count and you hit them up, they do not respond and you’re just like ‘What? What? I thought we were friends? And now you’re blowing up and now we don’t talk anymore?’

Phillip: You mentioned there soundcloud follower count and followers is a good way to quantify your followers. So do you ever reach out to them and ask to share your music? Madman: No not them. But I do know for a fact that other producers with much higher followers do message each other saying something like “hey can you please repost my track?” But you can also like pay through the Artist Union. Which is a download gate. You know what a download gate is?

Phillip: Yes its where in order for users to download the track they repost and like the track on soundcloud.

Madman: Yes but you can also pay 50 dollars and then you get your track reposted to their 218k followers but the thing is if you do a download gate you’ll get worthless followers. Since the users have to follow you to download the track, they’re just following you to download your track which popped up on their timeline. So end of the day these followers aren’t really fans. Like with Download gate, which I use, I have 10k followers but I only get about 4k plays on a track. But anyways, everybody followed me, but only followed me to download the songs, which I was in. That is really not because I make the best song on their or whatever, you know?

Phillip: So do you think you have a lot of ghost followers?

Madman: Um, could you define ghost followers.

Phillip: In the sense that you have 10k followers but you usually only get 4k plays only.

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Madman: That’s exactly what I mean with ghost follower, they follow you and they really don’t check out your stuff. And also I didn’t drop a new track in any of the last 2 months.

Phillip: But do you have any tracks in the oven still?

Madman: No, no. It’s f***ed man. I’ve recently switched from FLStudios to Ableton. Its tough man and the work flow is different. I see the ups and the downs of switching.

Phillip: Did you switch for collaboration purposes?

Madman: No, no not at all. In music you should not switch for any other people. In the sense that you should not switch for collaborating with other people.

Phillip: Speaking of collaborations do you collaborate with other artists?

Madman: Yeah, I’ve collaborated with, so the guys who through soundcloud, they’re good guys I know and sometimes we sit there and collaborate. Offline! So its not digital. In the beginning it’s all cool thinking, oh let’s collaborate with people. After a while it’s very, yea. I don’t know enough people, artists, online that I really hang out with. I am a bit over that phase you know? It’s like you’re jaded when you write me, I’m just like f*** off people. I’m not really looking for new friends on soundcloud anymore, you know?

Phillip: So you’re saying you sort of know who you “f*** with” in a way?

Madman: Yeah, if I find an artist though who I really dig, sure I’ll talk to them. Back in the day I’d send people messages like “woah! I really like your music” I like what you did with this and this and here and here. I like to praise them on a certain specific part that I really liked. And then I’d ask them of ‘how did you make that synth?’ That would get me connected with those people. I am a bit out of those early days?

Phillip: Do you think that is important for your own artistic development?

Madman: Definitely, it helped me keep on learning and that is how you do it when you’re connect with other guys from soundcloud.

Phillip: Along lines of management I saw that you have a manager that is based out of the UK? Are you in contact with him often?

Madman: Yea… Not that often. Sometimes I get an e-mail from him because someone e- mailed him instead of me. It is not like we’re talking on a day to day baises. He messaged me back in the day saying ‘hey I want to manage you.’ I ended up finding out that he worked for Universal so I thought that was pretty dope.

Phillip: Going back to the collectives, I see also that you are part of other collectives as well?

Madman: Which ones? As far as I know I’ve released some songs on some pages. Not really that involved in any other collective.

Phillip: The Night Owl collective?

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Madman: Oh yea man!! Yea yea yea. I understand where you’re coming from it’s a dope collective. In the beginning I was like oh I’d love to be on there. And then out of the blue last year in February a message from Johnny Piercing the owner of the collective. And he was like “Oh I love your beats man, you’re my number one favorite artists” and I was like “What?” then I dropped two songs on there. Oh and a sample pack.

Phillip: Do you speak much with Johnny?

Madman: With Johnny I do. I released a sample pack and we were talking about sales. It’s not anything personal but it is more like hey how are sales doing? Just like stuff like that. He’s a cool guy, its more like business.

Phillip: Do you think of being part of Night Owl collective has influenced your soundcloud page?

Madman: I guess so. If you listened to their stuff, I might take their sound with me in my subconscious when I go make music. But not in terms, that by me being part of their collective gives me this feeling of I have a different role for you or something?

Phillip: Do you speak to any of the artist with in the collective?

Madman: Not that I know of.

Phillip: You’d say you’re more involved with Lonely or Night Owl?

Madman: I’d say I’m more involved with Night Owl. Cause with Lonely I had only one track up and I couldn’t deal with the group chatting being f**king crazy I couldn’t really follow it. Meanwhile Night Owl was more cool. Because Jonny is super enthusiastic and overall a great guy.

Phillip: How is communication within the Night Owl Collective?

Madman: We have a secret Facebook group for the collective and its members. It has 66 members so I guess that is how many people are in the collective there. That is where everybody communicates with one another and posts tracks. I got to get going now.

Phillip: Yes it’s been a long interview. I’ll be in touch. Thank you again.

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