Nordic American Voices Nordic Heritage Museum
Interview of Gus Raaum June 11, 2010 Mercer Island, Washington Interviewers: Mina Larsen, Gordon Strand
Mina: [0:04] Larsen: This is an interview for the Nordic American Oral History Project. Today's June 11, 2010, and we will be interviewing Gus Raaum. We are at the home of Gus on Mercer Island, Washington. I'm Mina Larsen and I'm interviewing with Gordon Strand. Gus can you tell me your full name?
Gus Raaum: [0:28] My full name is Gustav Ferdinand Raaum.
Mina: [0:33] And where were you born?
Gus: [0:34] I was born in Brevik, in the southern part of Norway on January 20, 1926.
Mina: [0:43] And what can you tell me about your family and your childhood?
Gus: [0:47] Well, my father and mother were, of course, my key components. I had a grandfather, but my grandparents all were dead before I was born. So I never had the opportunity - except in one case, my dad's mother was still alive and she died from cancer. So I never had much contact with her.
Gordon: [1:19] Strand: Did you have brothers and sisters, or...?
Gus: [1:21] I have a brother, Severin Fredrik Raaum, Dick they call him. He's alive and he lives in Sequim. And we talk every week on the phone. So we have a close relationship, as two brothers, as the only two siblings.
Mina: [1:49] Can you tell me a little bit of how you celebrated Christmas in Norway?
Gus: [1:54] Well Christmas was a big deal. You know we had a fresh tree, and we had regular burning candles on it. I remember we had a big box of sand right next to it, which
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would be thrown on in case a fire happened. And we decorated the tree - this was the night before Christmas Eve. We were not allowed downstairs because they were decorating the tree. [2:27] So Christmas Eve came, and that was a big deal. And we were downstairs and the presents were underneath the tree. And we walked around the Christmas tree and sang Christmas songs.
Mina: [2:47] What kind of food did you have?
Gus: [2:50] What kind of food... boy that's hard to recall now. Just basically, Norwegians ate a lot of sandwiches - open faced sandwiches. Soups. And except for, of course, during the war - we ate a lot of potatoes.
Mina: [3:08] Did you have any special Christmas dinner?
Gus: [3:11] You know I don't recall that, but I'm sure we did. But I don't remember that.
Gordon: [3:17] What was your home like? Where you were raised?
Gus: [3:20] We had a nice home, which was in a place called Nystrand, which was at the base of Eidangerfjord. Which is about probably 15-20 miles from Brevik. And we had a very nice home there, a two story home. And my brother and I had had one bedroom upstairs. We always, for as long as I can remember, shared a bedroom either with bunks or with beds.
Gordon: [3:53] What sort of activities did you guys engage in there?
Gus: [3:58] As far playing, when I was a little boy, we played out in the wood; hide and seek, Tarzan type of things. I remember once I swang on the rope, which was attached to a tree limb. And, I had too long a rope and when I came to the bottom part of the swing, I hit a rock. And I ripped my knee wide open. It actually cut through several layers of clothing. [4:35] And I opened up my knickers, and it was through my knickers, as a matter of fact, because we had knickers on at that time. I went to the doctor and he just looked in there and poured some iodine in there and pulled [the skin] up and sewed it up. And it's a
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terrible job from a doctor’s standpoint but it never affected my ability to run or ski or anything like that.
Gordon: [5:02] Did you start skiing then at a very young age?
Gus: [5:04] I started skiing when I was about six years old. And I even started jumping about that time. But I remember when I first started to jump at that age, when I came to the take-off actually I closed my eyes. Because I was kind of scared. And I don't even think I stood up. I think I fell and when I landed. [5:27] But that was a very modest very beginning of my ski jumping career. I think I was about six years old when I started.
Gordon: [5:36] Did you learn from your dad or was there some...?
Gus: [5:38] No, my dad was not what I would call an athlete. He just liked to hike in the mountains. But, he was not a skier so to speak or a sports fan.
Mina: [5:51] When did you move the Lillehammer?
Gus: [5:54] We moved to Lillehammer in 1938. We lived, like I said earlier, down in Nystrand which is close to Brevik. And my dad got a job as a general manager for a small department store in Lillehammer so we moved to Lillehammer.
Mina: [6:12] What do you remember about celebrating the 17th of May?
Gus: [6:15] Well, of course in Lillehammer we had small parades. And as I grew older, we traveled down to Oslo and was part of the major parade which is up Karl Johans Street towards the Royal Palace. And we had of course our Norwegian flags and waving. That's about the best I can remember now.
Gordon: [6:40] And what was school like in Lillehammer? What years...?
Gus: [6:42] We had a high school right there. To get to school, you either walk or you bike. There was no cars. And my family did not have a car. In fact, there was very few cars in Lillehammer at that time. So, you walked to school. And you'd bring your lunch. [7:05] There was no lunch room. You just eat your lunch in your own classroom. And you had a
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choice, first I went to the grade school and then I went to high school. And at high school, we had ski teams for the high school. I'm trying to think of the high school part. You know, that came close to when the war started too in 1940.
[7:43] And the Germans occupied our high school. And they kicked everybody out so we met in private homes for school purposes.
Mina: [7:53] And what do you remember about the day when the war started?
Gus: [7:57] The which?
Mina: [7:57] The day when the war started, when the German's came.
Gus: [8:00] Yeah, April 9th, 1940, we lived in Lillehammer and suddenly the German marched in to Oslo, in huge numbers, and of course they went to Trondheim and Bergen at the same time. They hit all the big cities at the same time, which was close to the coast where they could easily come. It was totally unprovoked, and of course we were shocked. And what we did is, just stay out of sight. I remember the German soldiers walking around the streets and sidewalks of Lillehammer, and we totally ignored them. [8:41] And I remember, we wore a little paperclip in our lapel as an opposition group among all our family and friends... Just a kind of indication that we were a different team, so to speak. So it was a deal where you stayed away... And if we saw any one of our friends talk to a German soldier, like a girl, she would be ostracized. From then on, we ignored her like she didn't exist. I remember that.
Gordon: [9:15] Tell us the story of your attempt to volunteer to resist the German advance.
Gus: [9:22] Well, like I said, I was 14 and my brother was 15-and-a-half. And he and I, we were going to get on our bicycles and go down and volunteer for the Norwegian army. Which, really, there was no such thing as a Norwegian army. In fact, our army had no uniforms, they used just an armband to show that that was the uniform. And that was what they wore then. [9:51] And when my dad got a wind of the fact that, here, these two little kids going to go downtown, maybe be outfitted with a rifle and a pocket full of shells and
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meet the Germans... And I know some of our other friends cut down trees to block the road so they couldn't come driving up to Lillehammer. But the big German tanks just rolled right over the trees, and that was absolutely no stoppage.
[10:17] So that was a miserable day for all of us.
Gordon: [10:21] What did your dad do, exactly?
Gus: [10:23] My dad was a manager of a small department store at the time.
Gordon: [10:26] No, I mean in terms of... You said he came to get you away from the town... Or stop you from going in to resist [by joining the Norwegian Volunteer army].
Gus: [10:33] Well, he got a wind of it, so he come running downtown... It was at the central square in Lillehammer, next to the bank building down there. And he said, "You get your tail back home."
Gordon: [10:44] Were there a lot of people there? Could you describe that scene?
Gus: [10:47] You know, I don't remember that scene, other than my dad came to get us. But it was such a big uproar at the time, and I don't remember the basic details on that.
Mina: [11:02] So what other experience did you have during the war?
Gus: [11:07] Well, one thing what happened to us was, we were supposed to [report to work], having graduated from high school, to report for work for the good of the Germans, which would be working on farms or something like that. So our high school group met up in the woods, and we all decided not to show. And the next thing we knew, in my case, one of the, either Gestapo or Germans, guys came to my home and wondered where I was. I was supposed to down reporting. And my mother, who is a very strong Christian... She'd never lied in her life, but she did then. When they asked her if I was home, and she said, "No, he's not home." And I could hear that, because I was home. He said, "Well, he better report at 5:00 [11:30], down at the police station."
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[12:03] And as soon as they left, I got my backpack, which was always ready with a change of underwear and some minor overnight stuff. So I put that on, I got on my bike and headed out of town. I went to a farm south of Lillehammer, where I was in hiding. And fortunately, I was never found, and I stayed there for quite a few months.
[12:33] I ended up... the farmer's daughter was my girlfriend. [laughs] So, I gained on that. But that was that part of it.
Mina: [12:47] So, they came looking for yourself? They came looking for you, right?
Gus: [12:51] Yes, suddenly, one day, when I was working... in fact, I learned how to milk cows and all kinds of stuff at the farm. I worked with haying and threshing, stuff like that. I saw two German soldiers come walking from the main road, down towards the farm house. [13:07] So, I thought somebody had tattled on me. So, I ran up stairs and hid underneath the bed, way in the back of one of the bedrooms. It turned out that the soldiers just were thirsty, and they wanted some milk.
Gordon: [13:22] Did you ever know anybody that was cooperating with the Germans in your area. Was that a problem?
Gus: [13:29] Yes, I think, there were a couple of people who did, but, very, very few ever did that, because, they got ostracized. And I remember, we said, "After the war, we're going to kill those [people], " because they had made life miserable, because, they could identify us, even if we had a false passport, or used a false name, when one of their roadblocks would show up. [13:55] So, we figured we'd kill them. But we were told then by our forces in London, "Don't kill anybody, because some of these people are counter-espionage people, and they are there for the purpose of getting information to us about the Germans, or the Gestapo."
Gordon: [14:15] So, you were in touch with the London...?
Gus: [14:18] We got them through a radio of a neighbor of mine. They confiscated all the radios, incidentally. My neighbor, up the street, he hid his radio in the basement, behind the concrete wall. [14:35] And he had set it up so that his coat hangers; if he hooked on to that,
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they could get information through the radio. And they wrote down [the information], and then they mimeographed the news.
[14:48] And the news was distributed by young kids who had little back packs, and they walked from house to house to visit friends, and delivered the newspaper, or so called, mimeographed information.
Gordon: [15:02] So, this one guy had the radio...?
Gus: [15:04] Yes. So, that was the source. But then the Germans were zeroing in. They knew there was something going on in the radio frequencies, and they finally spotted this house. [15:16] And there were two sons there, who were in the house. They were quite a bit older than I was. They were in pajamas, and there was snow on the ground, at the time. So, the Germans tried to come in the front door. They ran out the back door, in the snow, barefoot.
[15:34] So, they didn't get caught. They ended up getting over to Sweden and finally, over to England, where they stayed until the end of the war.
Gordon: [15:43] Hmm. That's neat. What about, I heard somewhere that during the war, you refused to participate in the German ski jumping?
Gus: [15:57] Yes, the Germans, of course, and the Quislings, tried to organize competitions. They tried to get us to compete, and we actually boycotted the whole thing. At that time, you couldn't leave town without permission. [16:12] Well, we sneaked out to get our training. And we walked for two hours with our heavy jumping skis and the backpack with our little lunch, and stuff, and a thermos of chocolate.
[16:23] And walked through the woods and up into a secret jumping hill, where we trained. We even had competitions there, secretly. But one time we were reported on. Some people had reported that.
[16:42] And at that time, we had a big competition and the two Ruud brothers, Sigmund and Birger Ruud, got arrested. And they put them in the concentration camp at Grini near
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Oslo. But anyway, we were not arrested. I mean, we were part of the competition. But we used to train and jump up there, and we were in pretty good shape.
Gordon: [17:02] And these were all guys from your school?
Gus: [17:05] No, we had a ski club.
Gordon: [17:07] Ski club.
Gus: [17:07] Lillehammer Ski Club.
Gordon: [17:08] Oh, OK.
Gus: [17:09] And we had a lot of good jumpers. In fact, we trained like mad during the war, so when the war was over... We competed in 1946. And that's when we went into Holmenkollen, [then the icon of ski jumping].
Mina: [17:25] So the Ruud brothers, they were from Kongsberg, right?
Gus: [17:29] Yeah, those were the two top names in ski jumping then.
Mina: [17:33] So did they stay at Grini till the war was over?
Gus: [17:35] Yeah, they were at Grini till the end of the war.
Gordon: [17:41] Did you know Jan Kaier there, or was...?
Gus: [17:44] I did not know him in Norway.
Gordon: [17:46] OK.
Gus: [17:47] I met him over here. In fact, I was the best man at his wedding. [laughter]
Gus: [17:52] I did not know him in Norway.
Gordon: [17:57] So how many guys participated in the ski club that were avoiding the Germans.
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Gus: [18:01] Probably... In my ski club, probably a dozen.
Gordon: [18:04] Mm-hm. That's a pretty brave thing to do, I would think.
Gus: [18:09] Well, you know, we did what we thought was possible... Even though we knew it was illegal and that we could get caught. But you know, you never thought about your own risk at the time. I remember, when the Germans flew over Lillehammer and they had strafe machine guns... [machine gun noise] ...And right up the road, and we just ran and hid in the side of the road. And we never thought about the probability of getting shot.
Gordon: [18:40] While you're young, yeah. [laughter]
Gus: [18:42] Yeah, we were indestructible.
Gordon: [18:49] How did you hear about the end of the war? That would be [May 1945].
Mina: [18:52] Yeah, do you remember that day?
Gus: [18:55] Well, yeah. The Germans surrendered and there was a big picture in the paper. As a matter of fact, this Norwegian, I don't know what his title was... But he just had knickers and he had a little machine gun, and he had the army ribbon, which was... And here is a German... two German generals, or something, standing there handing over and giving up the war to one single guy standing there in knickers. [19:31] And here is the German army, with generals and all the medals, and all the helmets and all the stuff. It's a very famous picture from the war, really, or at the end of the war.
Gordon: [19:43] Was that somebody in Oslo, you mean?
Gus: [19:44] Yeah, that was in Oslo.
Gordon: [19:45] Oh, OK.
Gus: [19:47] Yeah, Oslo was always the headquarters. Lillehammer was just up north there. We were, kind of anyway, isolated from most of the problems. Like the big cities [Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim], they had a tough time to get anything to eat. And Dad had some farmers as customers in his store, and so we had a chance [to obtain various foods]. [20:09]
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And my brother and I went on our bicycles up to a farm and picked up, maybe, a piece of meat and maybe some eggs, and stuff from the farm. We would bicycle back towards home.
[20:22] And I remember in one situation, we came around the corner and here's a German road block where they inspect everybody, [to check] if they had anything in their backpacks or in the bicycle packs. And so, when we saw that we made a big u-turn and went way up on the side of the hill, and took a back road to get back home.
[20:47] My mother wondered what had happened to us, because we weren't home when we were supposed to be home. But it took a lot of extra time for us to work our way home, just to get away from the German roadblock. But we finally got home, and so we got some food to eat.
[21:04] We had a little advantage there in the small town to get stuff, needed chickens and stuff like that. And we grew a lot of stuff in our yard, like vegetables. We had apples and raspberries and strawberries and stuff that we grew in the yard. We basically got along well, but we ate a lot of potatoes.
[21:30] And I remember we hid a bunch of sardine cans in the wood pile outside, just in case the Germans came in to raid our refrigerator. To make sure we weren't going hungry. We had a lot of sardine cans hidden in the wood pile outside, which nobody could see. And that was very healthy, sardines were considered a very healthy diet. But potatoes was the main menu. And we had potatoes for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner. And instead of having a nice bread or meat on your sandwich, you had sliced potatoes.
Gordon: [22:13] So they took over your school? Was that where they headquartered in Lillehammer, then?
Gus: [22:17] Yes. And they also set up a camp up where now the Olympic facilities are. Because the Germans... [22:26] We had, one of the headquarters of the German Army was in Lillehammer. But for office space and stuff, they kicked us out of the high school and they used that for an office headquarters. And then they set up a lot of tents and stuff up on, where the Olympic facilities are now.
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Gordon: [22:46] Were you aware of resistance in Lillehammer, or of anybody actively involved in sabotage or anything?
Gus: [22:51] Yeah. In fact, our high school gym teacher was one of the top guys in the Underground, so to speak, in the resistant forces. But of course, we didn't get to talk to him then. Nobody knew where he was, or who he was working with, [23:08] In those days, you wouldn't tell anybody on anybody else. That is, if somebody got caught, he couldn't tell who the people ahead of him or behind him were. So it was strictly by X-Y-Z, or non-name deal.
[23:29] I was several times almost on my way to Sweden to get out, but I ended up not having to do that. But a lot of people, that was one advantage of Sweden at the time, was that they provided some kind of hiatus for Norwegians who were in trouble. And then from there, they would be able to get over to London to join the Norwegian forces over there.
[23:52] Because the Royal Family had gotten out ahead of the German Army up north, and I think it was a British ship, came in to pick them up. And they got on the ship and been.[transported to London] So the Royal Family, which we looked to for leadership and spirit and stuff like that, they were over in London.
Gordon: [24:16] So what kind of celebration was there in Lillehammer that day, when you knew it was all over?
Gus: [24:24] It's just, you know you're under such pressure for so many years, that you just kind of exploded. In fact, we went to Oslo to join the festivities in there. Because Lillehammer itself was up there north, and at that time it was a small town. Now I guess it's 20 some thousand, but at that time, I think it was about 5,000 people or something in Lillehammer. [24:52] But we took off on bicycle, and went to Oslo and took part in the festivities down there, marching up Karl Johann Street and waved flags and it was a lot of excitement.
Mina: [25:05] Were you there at 17th of May, then?
Gus: [25:09] You know, I don't remember that, but I bet we were.
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Gordon: [25:15] Was that when the king came back, or returned?
Mina: [25:18] That was later that he came in.
Gordon: [25:19] Oh, OK.
Gus: [25:20] Yeah, they came in down at Oslo, the dock in Oslo, by ship. And of course, that was a big deal when they came ashore and joined their people.
Gordon: [25:33] Yeah. So how about the ski competition that took place in Holmenkollen? That was a big thing then.
Gus: [25:44] Well, yeah. You see, there was not a Holmenkollen competition for four or five years, because of the German occupation. And so, in 1946 was the first Holmenkollen ski jump after the war. Each region in Norway had a quota of people, of jumpers, that could come to Holmenkollen, because they restricted access. [26:13] I mean, it was... You had to be specially selected to come there. And we were lucky, our ski club got a quota of four. And that was three juniors and a senior, that is three 20 and under and one guy over 20. So the four of us were selected to jump at Holmenkollen. And that was a big deal, just to be in it. I mean, that was like the icon of ski jumping at that time, was Holmenkollen.
[26:44] I had a good day. It was a little windy, but it was a good day for me because I ended up winning the junior class, which is under 20. And Asbjorn Ruud, one of the Ruud brothers, he won the over 20 class. And that was a huge celebration. I got this beautiful trophy.
[27:11] But that was... When you had one of those... There are not many of those around. Beautiful silver trophy. I barely beat out one guy. But we had, I'm trying to remember, probably 50 juniors like me in the competition.
Gordon: [27:32] From all over Norway?
Gus: [27:33] From all over Norway. And the A-class, or the over 20 class... I think there was over 300 people in the jumping competition, and they had over 100,000 spectators. I think that they said there was 106,000 spectators. And it was like a national holiday, the
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Holmenkollen competition then. Well, of course, we had no television. It was all by radio, and every radio in Norway was listening to the Holmenkollen ski jump[ing competition]. [28:06] And my parents, who seldom, really, followed my ski jumping at all during the war when we secretly were jumping, or right after we jumped... But my dad suddenly realized that he should try to get a hold of the starting order. And there was starting orders [available in various stores throughout Norway.] A starting order was a little booklet, and it has room for distances, jump by each jumper and the points he got.
[28:41] Oh, let's see. This is the Holmenkollen trophy. That's the icon of winning a tournament in Norway, is to have one of these.
Mina: [28:55] Yeah, Holmenkollen is the big honored event.
Gus: [28:59] That was the biggest competition in the world at that time, for ski jumping. Because Norwegians, generally, were known for being the best jumpers in the world, going back to even the '30s or '20s.
Gordon: [29:13] Still are, aren't they?
Gus: [29:14] Well, they're coming back, they had a little lag there. But the Austrians and the Germans... And they have a good Polish jumper now, but they still have some good Norwegians. But Norway lost their supreme [domination] of the ski-jumping world.
Gordon: [29:34] So that was a big party, then. That was kind of the coming out at the end of the war?
Gus: [29:38] Oh, yeah. Like I said, everybody in Norway probably listened to the radio that day, to listen to the Holmenkollen reporting by people telling about the scores, etc. And the judges’ scores from each jump, and the distances. [29:55] And then, they didn't have computers, so they couldn't calculate who won the tournament right after the tournament. So you had to wait until the awards ceremony, which was done in Klingenberg Movie Theater. Klingenberg was a big movie theater downtown, with a big stage. And that's where the awards were taking place.
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[30:19] And so, after we had jumped I walked all the way home, down to Oslo, with my skis. Because all the trams [were jammed with spectators on their way back to town.] They had those electric trams running up and down, there. You couldn't get on it, so we ended up just walking back.
[laughter]
Mina: [30:34] That's a long walk.
Gus: [30:35] It's a long walk, but we walked back carrying our skis. And I finally got back to where I lived, which is close to Frogner Park, and left my skis there and changed my clothes. And then we took the tram downtown to this awards ceremony, and we sat there and waited. And suddenly, here is the junior class, and I was a winner. And I got up there and picked up [the beautiful silver trophy.] That was a big deal.
Gordon: [31:00] Yeah.
Gus: [31:00] And I put that trophy in my pocket, and we walked through town afterward yodeling, and I think... I don't even think I had a beer. I think I had some beer that night to celebrate. You couldn't find hardly any liquor in those days. [31:18] Anyway. So we had a wonderful celebration walking around Oslo. And the next day, of course, headlines in the newspaper. Of course, nobody ever heard of me before, but suddenly I had headlines with Asbjorn Ruud in all the major newspapers in Norway.
Gordon: [31:36] I mean, that's a big deal for Lillehammer, wasn't it, with two out of the four winning something?
Gus: [31:41] Yeah. No, that was a... One guy fell. My three buddies, juniors... One guy fell and the other guy, I think, got 11th place. And he was beaten by a Swede, and we really harassed him. I said, "You mean you got beaten by a Swede in jumping?" [laughter]
[31:57] But anyway, that was part of the fun then.
Mina: [32:02] So when did you decide to come to the United States?
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Gus: [32:07] Well, I was lucky enough to... as a result of the Holmenkollen victory, to be part of a Norwegian jumping team which was invited by the United States Ski Association to tour America after the war. And it was really an experience because the Americans had had no contact with their Norwegian friends and families for five years. [32:32] In fact, every place I went, they asked me if I knew so-and-so from this town, and stuff like that. We signed an enormous amount of autographs. Of course, we had our Norwegian flag on the sweater, and we felt big and we met many Norwegian Americans. We had lunch with governors in different states that we competed.
[32:56] So that was in 1947. And we traveled on Stavangerfjord, on board, and we turned out on board exercising. When we hit New York, here's the press, came up by special boat to meet us and get pictures and put it in the American press. Here comes the Norwegian team.
[33:18] So we started competing up in Vermont, [then Michigan] and we went to Salt Lake City, Sun Valley. And we ended up in... Seattle was the last location where Olav Ulland, who then had the sporting goods store... Osborn & Ulland on Second and Seneca [in Seattle], I think it was. He arranged for us to come all the way to Seattle. And it was a wonderful experience.
[33:45] And the funny part is, when I worked in Norway for Sigmund Ruud and his sporting goods store, I made up a shipment of ski waxes to be sent to Osborn & Ulland [in Seattle]. And here I was, later, meeting Olav. And he was almost like a father to me. We were wonderful friends as long as he lived. So that's how I ended up in Seattle.
[34:13] And then one of my team members, Harald Hauge, got sick. He had some touch of TB or something. They put him in the hospital [in Seattle], and so I volunteered to stay behind to keep him company and the rest of the team flew back to Norway.
[34:30] And then I got invited to a lot of Norwegian homes, including the Lepsos, Finn Lepso. They lived in Broadmoor. And by other families here, to dinners and lunches... So I had a wonderful time here. Then, suddenly, I ended up staying here because they said, "Why don't you go to University of Washington and get an education?"
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[34:57] I said, "I'd love to, but I can hardly speak any English and I don't have any money."
[laughter]
Gus: [35:05] So to make a long story short, I ended up at the University of Washington. And I took accounting because I couldn't read English very well, so I figured numbers would work pretty well for me. So I ended up in business administration and majored in accounting. [35:21] And I ended up skiing on the ski team for the University of Washington, and became an All-American in ski jumping and won the NCAA championships. So I got a lot of luck out of that.
[35:36] And then, I met my wife too, which was a big deal, at the university. She was a student there, as well as I was. We ended up meeting on a double date. She wasn't my date, but I ended up, later, making her my date.
[laughter]
Gus: [35:53] After a couple of weeks, I called up to get a date. And of course, the gals at the sorority house were laughing, "Gustav is on the phone!" And they were kidding me. [laughter]
Gus: [36:08] But anyway, now we have been married 60 years.
Gordon: [36:12] Wow. Yeah, congratulations.
Gus: [36:14] In a couple of months, we've been married for 60 years.
Gordon: [36:18] What did your parents think when you decided to stay and go to school here? How did they feel about that?
Gus: [36:23] Well, you know, I didn't see them for seven years after that, because I stayed here. They couldn't afford to fly over here [from Norway]. And so they ended up, later, coming over here after seven years. [36:40] But I told them, I was looking at the future and the opportunity. I always dreamed of coming to the United States and maybe get to school
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here. And I ended up on a platter, here it was. And I took advantage of it, I studied hard and I got good grades.
[36:59] And like I said, I had a chance to ski for the university and help the team, and got a great education. And then, from that, I got a good job in a CPA firm. In fact, my first job, I was a chief accountant for Johnny Appleseed Orchards in Omak.
[laughter]
Gus: [37:18] ...Which is over, north of Wenatchee. And I spent a year there, but... At that time, I passed my CPA exam. And to get a certificate, you had to practice in a CPA firm for a couple of years. So we moved back to Seattle, and I joined Haskins & Sells, which later became Deloitte Touche [37:35] 44] . And the fun part of that is one of my granddaughters now is a CPA, and she works for the same CPA firm I work for. So that was a great event.
Mina: [38:02] And from there on?
Gus: [38:05] Well, from there on I ended up in the Rotary Club here. I eventually became president of the Mercer Island Rotary Club.
Gordon: [38:27] You had an involvement with a couple of big ski resorts. When did that happen?
Gus: [38:32] OK. Well, I first got a job as president of the Jackson Hole Ski Corporation, which is now Jackson Hole's Mountain Resort I think it is, through a mutual friend. And, of course, I didn't know a ski lift from a ski patrolman at that time. But I had financial background and they needed somebody to clean up their records. [39:02] And I replaced a friend of mine who also was a ski jumper who was general manager, and he didn't know how to manage people. I ended laying off half of the manpower he had hired because they had too many people on the payroll to do the job that needed to be done. So I worked for Jackson Hole for three years, and then I was contacted by a friend because Big Sky Montana Resort was then being planned from scratch. So I was hired as a chief executive officer of Big Sky ...
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Gordon: [39:42] What year was that done, Gus?
Gus: [39:43] That was 1970.
Gordon: [39:45] OK.
Gus: [39:50] And we lived in Bozeman, Montana. And my job was to start a new company from scratch. And, of course, as it ended up, all my employees I eventually had, I never met before. And that was quite a challenge, but Big Sky had the number one, Chet Huntley, who was then a very famous radio broadcaster, was the chairman of the board of Big Sky. And before they would hire me permanently I had to meet Chet Huntley to make sure we'd get along as people. And he was the most gentle, wonderful guy. He died too young of lung cancer, but he smoked himself to death, he chain smoked. [40:41] So, anyway, after meeting Chet Huntley and his wife, I came up from Jackson Hole secretly because I didn't want Jackson Hole to know that I was even looking at some other job, 'cuz I was doing pretty well down there. But this was an offer I couldn't refuse, so I ended up taking the job.
[41:06] And we had to start from scratch by just hiring people to design the area, where to cut the trees, where to lay the lift lines. We had the mountain village and the meadow village and we had to develop road systems, sewer, water, telephone service. I remember when we first opened, the first telephone call from Big Sky, Chet and I sat in a little telephone trailer, which was brought in there by the telephone company, and we we're trying to call the Queen of England.
[laughter]
Gus: [41:44] And they wouldn't accept the call, so he ended up calling one of his NBC associates in London for the first telephone call out of Big Sky. But to start from scratch, with nothing, there was nothing there. I mean, there was an old, old ranch which has been preserved, one of the building have been preserved there. [42:10] But it was the little dude ranch there and so we had to get roads designed and built, 10 miles of road to get to the mountain village. We had to get lift systems set up and ski-patrols started and ski-school
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started. So everything was started from scratch. So that was a wonderful experience for me, I'm surprised I didn't get a heart attack from it.
Gordon: [laughs] [42:32]
Gus: [42:33] Because at the time we also had a few of these, I guess you call ... people who didn't want us around. [The claimed] we were damaging the area, we were cutting roads and we were cutting trees and they wished we'd go back home and get lost! But we as a group did a nice job. You know, we wanted to develop something that was nice and acceptable otherwise it wouldn't be successful. [43:04] So we finally opened the resort, I think it was 1972. And I remember Chet Huntley got on the gondola, up to the top of the mountain to take a view. And he couldn't believe what we had done! But he unfortunately had lung cancer.
I remember we went horseback riding one day way up in the mountains and had a nice outing with a picnic with the horses and stuff. And he said, "Boy, I have a stiff back." after he got home. I said, "Well, Chet, we were on a horse all day long.” And you know he didn’t ride much [43:25]. But he couldn't get rid of it and he finally went back East to stretch his spine, maybe it was pinching a nerve. And they opened him up and he was full of cancer.
[43:58] And three months later he died and what was supposed to be the grand opening of Big Sky, I'd invited all the legislators from Helena and all kinds of VIP's to come and be part of the grand opening and it turned out to be the funeral of Chet Huntley.
Gordon: [44:14] Is that right?
Gus: [44:16] But he left a good legacy. And of course my job as Chief Executive Officer of the operational part of it, but I had to, in addition to do my own job, I had to be the publicity front person for Big Sky. And so, originally Chet and I, we divided up what must be two dozen meetings with Chamber of Commerce in every town in Montana to tell them what we planned to do and kind of promote Big Sky. But suddenly the guy died.
Gordon: [44:49] What was his interest in skiing, was he a skier himself?
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Gus: [44:52] No, no! In fact, we got him out on cross-country skis once, he and his wife. And Claire and I were up there and we got him outfitted on skis but he never took to it! [laughs] And neither did his wife Tippy. And Tippy is still alive. We have contact at least at Christmas time with her. [45:12] But that was a monumental task. But Big Sky today is running full tilt. And of course now they have all kinds of resorts in addition to Big Sky, all over the place. So it's kind of almost to me ruining the place.
Gordon: [45:27] Yeah.
Mina: [45:28] It's getting too big.
Gus: [45:29] Getting too big and too many people on the same mountain.
Woman: [45:34] He was from Montana.
Mina: [45:36] So how long were you there, then?
Gus: [45:38] I was there seven years, close to eight years.
Mina: [45:42] OK. And from there?
Gus: [45:44] From there we've talked about it and Claire said, "Let's not go to another mountain resort somewhere." I had a possibility of working for Walt Disney, they were planning a Mineral King Ski development in California. And I was contacted to take that on and then Claire says, "I don't think so. We don't want to get to another mountain resort and start over with new friends." So we came back to Seattle. [46:15] And I ended up staying overnight at a close friend of mine who is a business partner, Harold Hill, who lives on Mercer Island. I stayed at his house and I met with several people who wanted me to work for Crystal Mountains was one. And a couple of insurance companies.
[46:43] But Harold said, "Let me show you what I'm doing." So he drove me all over Mercer Island in the Puget Sound area and showed me all the different things he was doing. And he said, "You know, I don't have anybody to talk to, I don't have anybody to advise. I can't take a vacation because I got to keep running the place." He said, "Why don't you join me? Let's try it for a year and if it works, fine. And if it doesn't work, we'll shake hands."
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[47:09] Well, we shook hands and now, 30 years later, we're partners. We had been for years, developing industrial property in, mostly in Kent and Auburn. And so, of course we're both retired now but we have tremendous people in the office. And I'm no longer, I'm retired from the company and my wife and I enjoy a life of leisure.
Gordon: [laughs] [47:39]
Mina: [47:40] But then you were involved in ski-jumping and the Olympics.
Gus: [47:44] Well, yes. Because of my jumping background I was [a volunteer] in the International Ski Federation, I end up spending 30 years in that. And 16 years of that I was Chairman of the International Ski-Jumping Committee. Which took me to Europe at least twice a year to run meetings. [48:08] And my committee consisted of maybe 12 people from 12 different countries and not all of them could speak English. In fact, the Japanese had the toughest time. They had all these interpreters so that when I spoke or others spoke, they could translate to them kind of quietly.
[48:28] But to make it easier to work one language, we decided in our Jumper Committee and the International Ski Federation, to use German as a basic language. Which I got pretty acquainted with during the German occupation. But to kind of get more used to German again, I got a Berlitz course, a tape recorder in German.
[48:52] So whenever I drove to Big Sky, for my work, we lived in Bozeman and I drove to Big Sky ever day, I turned on my recorder and kept talking in German to myself all the way up. It took an hour to drive up there.
[49:11] So when I went to Europe I wasn't a total dodo running a meeting in German. But I had an excellent secretary at the Jumping Committee who did a lot of talking during the meetings.
Gordon: [49:24] And what was the role of the Federation? What was your responsibility?
Gus: [49:27] The International Ski Federation controls all international skiing competitions, design of jumping hills, official's duties and stuff like that.
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Mina: [49:41] Yeah, were you a judge too?
Gus: [49:43] I was an International FIS Jumping judge. And I've judged, or been an official, at most Winter Olympics Games and World Championships.
Gordon: [49:52] Did you compete in the Olympics yourself?
Gus: [49:54] No, that was beyond me because during my prime years it was the German Occupation.
Gordon: [49:59] Oh.
Gus: [50:00] And afterwards, being over here in America as a Norwegian citizen, I had to fly back to Norway to try out for the team. And I couldn't afford a trip to Ballard, much less to Norway! [laughs]
Mina: [laughs] [50:15]
Gus: [50:16] So I had to pass up the opportunity to ski in the Olympics.
Mina: [50:18] Stop! I just need to turn this around.
Gordon: [50:21] I'll put pause on here.
Part 2 of 2
Mina: [0:01] OK.
Gustav Raaum: [0:03] Well during the war I got away, but my brother got caught and arrested. And they put him in forced labor on a farm. He also, at the time, worked for a hotel, helped at Sjusjoen, which is outside of Lillehammer, up in the mountains. [0:26] And he told me one time about a story when he was supposed to come back to Lillehammer and deliver some papers, illegal papers. And he drove down and there was a big German General supposed to go to town in the same car. And so they got him totally drunk, this German soldier.
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[0:50] And they put him in the backseat. And of course he came down towards Lillehammer and there was a roadblock and they wondered...Oh no, they went in a ditch.
[laughter]
[0:59] And so the people came to get them out of the ditch and here's this drunk in the back. My brother tried to cover up the deal, the papers he had on him, which was if they had searched him, he would be in deep do-do. But anyway, they did get out of the problem. They ended up in town.
[1:26] And they dumped, actually they dumped the guy out of the car, eventually. And my brother got his papers to where they needed to be without being arrested.
Gordon: [1:41] What was he arrested for? Was it because of the...?
Gus: [1:44] Well he didn't show up when he was supposed to show up, number one. But he did take a job at the hotel in Sjusjoen, and that was a tourist place. I'm trying to connect that with further problems he had. But I don't remember any problems beyond that.
Mina: [2:05] Well he must be part of the underground then, if he was delivering secret papers.
Gus: [2:09] Well there was a very loosely organized deal because there was no power or responsibilities. Because they didn't want anybody to track anybody backwards or forwards. But I don't remember the details, circumstances of why he had to do this, but he did. [2:29] But when the war was over I remember he walked in to the same German general and slammed the paper on the desk and the headline was that the Germans had given up the war, and to chew the guy out just to kind of get it off his chest. That's about all.
Gordon: [2:49] Yeah. And he ended up in the United States too, huh?
Gus: [2:53] He followed me...Let's see, he came in '54 and I came in '47. And I got him a job at Jantzen Knitting Mills in Portland, on Sandy Avenue, as a janitor. But my brother had graduated as a textile engineer in a Swedish college so he was totally able to run the mill himself. But anyway, I got him a job, through a ski friend on the U.W. ski team[3:19] 22] , in
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the Jantzen Knitting Mills and he ended up actually running that plant, down the road, after realizing that he could run that plant with his eyes closed. But he now lives at Sequim. In fact he is blind because he has macular degeneration. So he can't drive, he can't watch television, he can't read the paper.
[3:51] But fortunately he has a nice lady friend who is his right and left hand and she drives him where he needs to be. And he has got a white cane. And you talk to him on the phone, we talk frequently on the phone, and he hasn't got a problem. Everything is wonderful.
Gordon: [4:11] Attitude is good, huh?
Gus: [4:12] Yeah. Take it the way it is. So anyway, we both are here now. And my parents finally arrived- was it 1954? Because they wanted to [be where my brother and I were living.] They should never have come, was the way I felt. Because they had all their friends and all their group that where we lived in Norway. [4:36] But they wanted to be where their two boys were, the only two kids they had, so they came. And my dad died in an accident and my mother lived until she was 86.
Mina: [4:48] So they actually lived here?
Gus: [4:50] Yep. They lived [with us for a short while, then they moved to Portland, Oregon where my dad got a job.]
Mina: [4:55] How did you get involved with the Nordic Heritage Museum?
Gus: [4:59] I was very active in a lot of things. I knew [Svein] Gilje, who was the first president. And I was a good friend of Svein. So I'd like to support it. I was one of the original founders of the Nordic Heritage Museum. We took the old school there, we looked at it and the roof leaked, many windows were broken, the furnace didn't work, the floor[looked terrible]. It looked like Hiroshima when we saw that old school. But they cut a deal with the Seattle school system.
Gordon: [5:47] Who were the guys that were taking the lead on this? You?
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Gus: [5:51] Svein Gilje was the key guy. I wish I could remember who the other people were. I think eventually Jan Kiaer got involved.
Gordon: [6:03] Bert Lundh, was he involved?
Gus: [6:05] Bert Lundh was involved. He sure was. I'm trying to think... [indecipherable 06:13] . And the doctor, [Stig] Anderson, who was from Denmark.
Gordon: [6:22] Stig Anderson?
Gus: [6:22] Stig Anderson was involved. Anyway, we ground away and got the place cleaned up. You see what it is today. It's not ideal for a museum because of the lack of all the temperature controls and all that stuff.
Gordon: [6:38] What were you guys thinking of as the vision for the museum? What did you hope it was going to become?
Gus: [6:43] We felt that we should represent the five countries. And eventually we got a room for each country. Then, overall, the museum, which was more like a traveling exhibit... [6:57] But they had permanent exhibits for the five countries to represent the culture and the food. We had different activities over there. Marianne Forssblad, of course, was the dynamo. She got that hummer rolling and, boy, she really took a hold of that thing. [She was the Executive Director and did a wonderful job.]
Mina: [7:18] How did you end up hiring her?
Gus: [7:21] She was sitting in our home [in Redmond.] I invited her to come to my home, to interview her. I had a big question whether she was qualified or not. That later becomes a big laugh. [laughs] . But I interviewed her for the job. I said, "Should we take a risk on her?" Finally we did. [7:44] I think she worked for nothing for a while as a volunteer. Of course they didn't have any money. I was treasurer, the first treasurer of the Nordic Heritage Museum. And that was no problem because we had no money. Somehow the thing got going and then Marianne really got the thing going full blast. After we got the place
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cleaned up. Then we had some Royal visits. She arranged for most of that. Tom Stang was helpful, maybe even his dad, who is Christian Stang. But that was way back.
Mina: [8:26] His mother, probably.
Gus: [8:27] Sorry?
Mina: [8:28] His mother, probably.
Gus: [8:30] Oh, yeah. That's right.
Mina: [8:34] Actually, I think that Jan Kiaer designed the Norway room.
Gus: [8:39] Yeah and he designed the main entrance as well. Because he's an architect.
Gordon: [8:47] Did you know him from the ski team?
Gus: [8:50] Yeah, he was on the University of Washington ski team with me. He and another friend Gunnar Sunde. Sunde went back to Norway. He's still alive. I have contact with him on email.
Gordon: [9:08] You created a board, I guess. Do you remember how many people were on the board of the museum?
Gus: [9:16] We had at least one representative from each country. I can't remember beyond that. I think the guy from Finland is still there. Westergard or something like that.
Gordon: [9:31] Westerberg.
Gus: [9:33] Westerberg, yeah.
Gordon: [9:34] Yeah. He was part of...
Gus: [9:35] Yeah. I think he's still part of it.
Mina: [9:36] Oh.
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Gus: [9:37] And by the time they got somebody, the Consuls, different Consuls in the country were kind of I guess honorary members of this group and it just kind of grew out of no place and now they're looking at a huge new deal, I guess and they brought millions and millions, what, fifty, sixty million dollar project or something. [I believe the City of Seattle contributed one million dollars.]
Gordon: [10:02] Yeah, I think that, yeah.
Gus: [10:04] I guess unless you have a Bill Gates or a Paul Allen, you should make a Norwegian out of them or something. That would really help, wouldn't it?
Gordon: [10:13] Yeah. There are some Norwegians capable of a lot of things.
Gus: [10:16] Yeah, there are some, Kaare Ness and people like that.
Gordon: [10:19] Yeah.
Gus: [10:20] They are wonderful supporters.
Gordon: [10:21] Yeah. So how many years were you on the board do you think?
Gus: [10:25] I couldn't tell you. But too long I thought at the time, but I figured it was time for somebody else to do it.
Gordon: [10:40] So what other organizations are you, Nordic, organizations, are you involved with?
Gus: [10:44] Well, I'm a member of a Norwegian Commercial Club, have been for many years. I've been in Norwegian-American Chamber of Commerce for a long time. But eventually, you know, the drive to Ballard get tougher and tougher. So I'm kind of on the fringe of things now.
Gordon: [11:05] How often do you go back to Norway?
Gus: [11:07] The last trip I took to Norway, I went with my [son Chris], and that was this year. And I have no plans to go back to Norway. Most of the people I used to know are dead.
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And the one friend I do have left there, we email each other. So I don't plan to go back to Norway again. And Claire says she's been to Norway enough times. [laughter] When I, all of us talk Norwegian and she can understand quite a bit of Norwegian but for a steady diet, it isn't her deal.
Claire Raaum: [11:43] Tell him about your citizenship, getting your citizenship.
Gus: [11:47] Oh, yeah, well you know I was a Norwegian citizen and tried to become an American citizen, it was, when I think about the eleven million Mexicans who are here illegally, I was in fact at one time an illegal immigrant because I was here on a student visa and when you finish your studies you're supposed to go back home. [12:10] Well I didn't. But I went down and talked to Tom Stang and he said, "Well, don't worry about it." It was either Tom or Christian [Stang], I can't remember which one it was. He said, "We'll do something." And, so I was on a kind of a trial sort of thing, for quite awhile, for years. And finally I got a chance to get citizenship and Claire and I went up to Vancouver [where I re-entered to] become a new citizen and in fact at the time the Norwegian quota was already full so I came as a non-quota immigrant to the United States.
Gordon: [12:53] But you had to re-enter through..
Gus: [12:54] Yeah, I had to leave and come back in.
Mina: [12:57] So did you get a green card then?
Gus: [12:59] No, I don't remember having a green card. I finally had gotten myself citizenship and that was like in 1957 or something like that. And I'd been here for quite a long time then. But now I have a wonderful American passport, Claire and I have passports good for years, so if we go anywhere we can prove who we are.
Mina: [13:26] So that's how you want to spend rest of your life?
Gus: [13:30] Well, it's not over yet, number one.
Mina: [13:31] It's not over yet?
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Gus: [13:32] Number one, I'm not dead yet. But I would say [I’m living for] the future, the future is enjoying my family. We have six grandchildren and three children, wonderful children. And our oldest lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming where he's a computer hardware designer and he plays a saxophone in a band. [13:55] And son number two, Chris, lives in Redmond, Washington. He has a [video] production company. He worked for KOMO Television for about twenty years before he started his own company. And our daughter Lou Ann lives in Bozeman, Montana, with her husband John and they have no children.
[14:14] Now we have grandchildren, six of them. Two of them are CPAs, which makes me feel good because that's where I worked. And one even, like I said, works for the same company I did [in Seattle] and the other one works for Price Waterhouse CPA firm in Seattle. So, a true treat is enjoying our family and our grandchildren.
[14:33] We have a summer place on the waterfront down at Allyn, which is close to Belfair. We have a 20-foot sailboat. "Uff da" is the name of our sailboat.
[laughter]
Gus: [14:48] So when I get a little crew help beyond my wife, we go sailing. The kids love to sail. Claire likes to fish. She rows a little rowboat down there. I've got an eight-foot rowboat. And she hauls a little spinner behind and she rows. Most of the time, she gets bullheads. Not really enough for dinner. [laughter]
Gus: [15:10] We go to one of the grocery stores when we want fish for dinner.
Claire: [15:12] She usually catches sea run cutthroat [15:13] sometimes.
Gordon: [15:14] Maybe we need to give Claire equal time here. [laughter]
Claire: [15:18] I can tell you the real story.
Gordon: [15:22] How do you maintain your Norwegian heritage? Is it still important to you?
Gus: [15:27] Oh yeah!
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Gordon: [15:28] Telling your grandchildren about... You have some amazing life.
Gus: [15:32] Very much so. We are very Norwegian here. In fact, overwhelmingly so, because my wife is Scottish and she's says -- telling the grandchildren -- "Remember, you're partly Scottish too, huh?" But, I have been honored. I'm in the U.S. National Ski Hall of Fame and I'm in [the University of Washington] Husky Sports Hall of Fame. So, I got my place on a platter somewhere and feel fortunate. My life has been great. I wouldn't change a thing. [16:04] When I look back, I'm born under a lucky star. I have a wonderful business partner, Harold Hill, and we've been, like I said, both retired now but the company's still running. I've sold out my interest to his family, so I live off of my monthly whatever-it-is, stipend, you know. I have been so lucky in life. I have a wonderful life. I have wonderful children, great grandchildren. Nobody creating any problems for us, or headaches.
Gordon: [16:41] But would you say that your dream of America came true?
Gus: [16:45] Boy, is that true. I should be standing in the front door of the heritage museum, Dream of America, and I'm the exact example of that. Absolutely. I'm a life member of Nordmannsforbundet and, like I said, I am a member of the Norwegian Commercial Club. I've been a member for a long time. I'm a past president of the Mercer Island Rotary Club, and I still belong there. I enjoy that, the fellowship and all the good things to do with that.
Claire: [17:20] And you march in the Seventeenth of May parade.
Gus: [17:22] And I have a Norwegian bunad and, in fact, I have a picture here with me in the hat.
Gordon: [17:38] Oh yeah, I remember. [overspeak]
[laughter] [17:41]
Gus: [17:45] But, I'm very [proud Norwegian, now also U.S. citizen.] In fact, I'm almost overwhelmingly strong in my Norwegian background. I'm proud of where I came from. I
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had a wonderful life and I'm proud of the Norwegian heritage. My kids know it and the grandchildren know it.
Gordon: [18:07] What comes from being Norwegian? What are the character traits that...
Gus: [18:13] Norway, when I was home, was kind of a rock pile. There was very little usable land for growing anything. Mostly rocks and mountains. In fact, when I left Norway in 1947, Norway was basically bankrupt. I felt the opportunity in America was great and so I looked for that. Then, Norway found oil. Oil, lately, has been a real deal. But with oil, Norway now is one of the richest countries in the world, per citizen. I think they're taking good care of it, however. They're investing the money all over the world for future use when the oil dries up.
Gordon: [19:08] Excellent....
Transcription by CastingWords
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