Richardson Dilworth Oral History Interview – 8/13/1964 Administrative Information Creator: Richardson Dilworth Interviewer: Henry W. Sawyer, III Date of Interview: August 13, 1964 Place of Interview: Length: 27 pages Biographical Note Dilworth, Mayor of Philadelphia from 1955-1962 and co-chairman of Pennsylvania Citizens for Kennedy in 1960, discusses his personal impressions of JFK, the 1960 primary and presidential campaigns in Pennsylvania, and JFK’s work on urban affairs, among other issues. Access Open. Usage Restrictions According to the deed of gift signed April 10, 1972, copyright of these materials has been assigned to the United States Government. Copyright The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. 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Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation Richardson Dilworth, recorded interview by Henry W. Sawyer, III, August 13, 1964, (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program. RICHARDSON DILWORTH Table of Contents Page Topic 1 First meeting with John F. Kennedy 3 Kennedy and Urban Renewal 4 Speech in Philadelphia 5 Speech to American Municipal Association Convention in Denver 6 Relationship with the Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) in Philadelphia 8 ADA Support of Adlai Stevenson 10 Pennsylvania delegation voting for Kennedy 15 Excellence of Kennedy campaign organization and staff 16 1960 Democratic National Convention 17 Relationship of Senator Joseph Clark and Robert F. Kennedy 18 Debate against Lyndon B. Johnson 19 Kennedy-Nixon Debates 20 Trip to Philadelphia during the 1960 presidential campaign 23 Margin of victory in Philadelphia 24 Dilworth’s meetings with President Kennedy regarding Urban Affairs 25 Potential of Kennedy’s second term Oral History Interview With RICHARDSON DILWORTH August 13, 1964 By Henry W. Sawyer, III For the John F. Kennedy Library SAWYER: This is an interview of Richardson Dilworth being conducted as part of the oral history project for the John F. Kennedy Library. Mr. Dilworth, will you introduce yourself, please? DILWORTH: Well, I am 65 years of age. I was in politics at one time for a period of about 17 years, commencing in 1947, and what I would like to think of as reform Democratic politics which eventually resulted in ousting the entrenched Republican machine here in the city. I was first elected as a City Treasurer after an unsuccessful campaign for Mayor in 1947, and was elected City Treasurer in 1949, District Attorney 1951, Mayor of the City in 1955, and re-elected in 1959. Before going into active politics that been sort of a hobby, I also had been a practicing lawyer in Philadelphia since 1927. I am a native of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, but I have lived in Philadelphia ever since I graduated from Yale Law School. The first contact--- SAWYER: Excuse me, may I interrupt? DILWORTH: I beg your pardon. SAWYER: The interview is being conducted by Henry W. Sawyer, III. I am a Philadelphia lawyer and I was elected as a Councilman-at-Large of the City of Philadelphia in 1955 and served for four years in the City Council at the time Mr. Dilworth was Mayor. You go ahead, Mr. Dilworth, and perhaps you can tell us when you first met John F. Kennedy. [-1-] DILWORTH: Thank you, Henry. It is a great pleasure to be introduced—to be interviewed by Henry Sawyer because certainly he was one of the younger men who did a tremendous amount in the reform movement. He gave up a lot by becoming a Councilman in the city and did a yeoman’s job there for four years, and ever since has continued to be not only in reform politics, but in very many things that have helped preserve the dignity and independence of the individual citizen. The first time I ever met Jack Kennedy – and I like to think of him as that – was in 1956. Shortly after I was elected Mayor I went down to Washington on behalf of certain legislation for the development of urban areas and he was one of the Senators that I was asked to contact. I was tremendously struck by him. I heard a great deal about him as I went to school up in New England—went to boarding school outside of Boston and to Yale University. I had many friends up in the Boston area and I had heard a great deal about him and was anxious to meet him. I was tremendously struck by his charm, also by his intellectualism, and finally, by his toughness. It seemed to me that it was an amazing combination that he had. I think he was a genuine intellectual and at the same time he loved politics and I mean real rough and tumble politics. He was extremely skillful at it and he had an enormous amount of toughness—toughness of fiber— which it always seemed to me is essential if you are going to have a successful political career. Also, I always thought that he had amazingly good political judgment. He had, of course, been raised in a very political family. I then – when I would go back to Washington, which was several times a month the entire time that I was Mayor, I would always make it a point to stop in and see him. I never got to know him intimately, but I got to know him reasonably well. We [-2-] were on a first name basis and it was always an enormous pleasure to see him because his conversation was tremendously stimulating, whether he was talking about intellectual things or whether he was talking about political things and he also had, of course, a delightful – almost pixie-ish—if that is not too bad a word—sense of humor; one of the best quiet sense of humors I have ever seen, a great master of sort of understatement type of sense of humor. The next really important contact, however – SAYWER: Early in ’56, I was going to ask you whether—what his position in terms of urban renewal was? Was he one of the Senators who was more interested or less interested in that problem because I know that is the one which you generally were in Washington for—that was your general concern—for various programs for urban renewal and mass transit and the like. DILWORTH: That is right, Henry. Well, he was – coming from an urban area and being a very urban person—a very civilized, sophisticated person—was tremendously interested in the urban problem. He realized that this is an urban civilization, will be increasingly so all through this century and that very drastic steps had to be taken if we were to meet the challenge of this urban civilization. I think what always particularly impressed him—not only was he in favor of urban legislation but he was really fussy about the kind of legislation. It had to be good legislation. It had to make sense. He just was not for any kind of urban legislation that the mayors might be in favor of. He really put it right through the strainer and one of the things that always made it a pleasure to talk to him, I thought, was that he wanted to make sure that the approach that was taken was the soundest possible approach. I always [-3-] felt very strongly that at any time you ever talked to him, while he was a very political animal, that at least I never knew him to get behind legislation that he didn’t think was really sound. Speaking of his sense of humor, one of the things that I remember was that he came up in 1956 to speak at the annual $100 dinner in Philadelphia and by that time those dinners had gotten up to around 4,000 people and was held in the Convention Hall and I think many of the people sort of resented the battering they had taken into showing up and the result was that by the time the speakers came on—and there would always be all kinds of minor speakers and hours of introductions—the crowd would be quite gru—quite resentful and – SAWYER: And wondered if they got their $100 worth? DILWORTH: Yes. And wandering about and talking, and many of them leaving the hall, and when they finally got around to the then Senator Kennedy I suppose there had been 100 introductions, there had been at least 10 minor Democrats speak and his words, when he got up, were that he said that to paraphrase Winston Churchill, “that never had spoken to so few who listened,” but he had an important--- SAWYER: Marvelous, because that was—that is strictly a ward-leaders and ward leaders’ friends and committeemen and every one else who can be bludgeoned into getting there for $100 – just to put it into context- and I do remember that in that sort of thing it was particularly a problem at the back of the hall.