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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 25 June LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 13753 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 25 June 2015 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. 13754 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 13755 THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. 13756 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 13757 PUBLIC OFFICER ATTENDING: MR LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS CLERK IN ATTENDANCE: MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 13758 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 MEMBERS' MOTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good morning. We now continue with the debate on the motion of "Implementation and continuance of 'one country, two systems'". IMPLEMENTATION AND CONTINUANCE OF "ONE COUNTRY, TWO SYSTEMS" Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 24 June 2015 MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, why do I request to be the first one to speak this morning? Before the meeting was suspended last night, Mr Alan LEONG flew into a rage in respond to the remarks made by Mr CHAN Han-pan, saying that Mr CHAN Han-pan's criticisms against the Civic Party had gone so far that "if you want to condemn somebody, you can always trump up a charge". He also said that Mr CHAN had little knowledge of the Basic Law and was not up to standard to discuss with him. Such an attitude made me think that he is imperious and arrogant, which is indeed dumbfounding. I left my seat to seek Mr Paul TSE's advice. I asked him if it was common for lawyers to adopt such an attitude in court. Mr TSE said that people with this kind of attitude would definitely lose the lawsuit. Frankly speaking, since Mr Alan LEONG becomes the spokesperson of the "lunch box meetings" of the pan-democrats, there have been great changes in his attitude and remarks. Some members of the public have pointed to me that they now realized that Senior Counsels' speeches were often cynical, mean and offensive, and it was not uncommon for them to lose temper. Perhaps this is simply a reflection of the attitude of the pan-democrats. Mr Alan LEONG once stated that the Basic Law was not too bad. Prior to its establishment, the Civic Party was named the Article 45 Concern Group, which manifested the great importance it attached to the Basic Law. When he gave his speech yesterday, he said that the version of Article 45 of the Basic Law enacted in 1989 was slightly different from the version published in 1990. I am not surprised as the content of the Article had been amended upon consultation with various parties. For instance, it is stipulated in Article 45 that the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 13759 candidates should be nominated by a nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures but the latest proposal requires candidates to obtain nominations of more than half of all the members of the nominating committee. I consider this a democratic approach as the candidates are required to obtain the endorsement of more than half of all the members. I would regard it as the manifestation of democracy. What is more, the election is to be conducted by secret ballot. Mr LEUNG said that Hong Kong people can be the boss with the power to elect the Chief Executive. That is right. But Mr LEUNG has omitted the point that the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC) has the ultimate power to appoint the Chief Executive, and that any amendment to the method for selecting the Chief Executive shall only be valid with the approval of the NPCSC. Hence, if we pay no regard to the framework laid down in the 31 August Decision of the NPCSC, even if the amendments were endorsed by a two-thirds majority of Members of the Legislative Council, they would hardly be approved eventually. A political party comprising a number of barrister members ought to have a better understanding of Article 45 or even the entire Basic Law, yet oddly, its members support the idea of civil nomination which has never been stipulated in Article 45 of the Basic Law. Even the Bar Association opines that civil nomination is contrary to the provisions of the Basic Law, how can they blame the Central Authorities for betraying trust and justice? I concur with the analysis made by the former member of the Civic Party Ronny TONG who, in giving his speech last time, said that there was a lack of mutual trust between the Central Authorities and the pan-democrats. The two sides have great discrepancy in their interpretation of "one country, two systems". While the Central Authorities consider that they have the right to intervene, the pan-democrats want to assume full autonomy. In light of their vastly different concepts, how should we rationalize their differences in the interpretation of "one country, two systems"? Regrettably, Mr TONG will soon leave the Legislative Council and resign from the legislature in order to pursue his dreams. I can understand him. Last night, I also learnt that Mr Ronny TONG has only tendered his resignation to the President and the issue has yet to be gazetted, so he can still change his mind before late September. I very much hope that he can change his mind and help Members of the pan-democratic camp gain a better understanding of "one country, two systems" with a rational and pragmatic attitude. 13760 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 June 2015 As "one country" is the premise, how can we have "two systems" without "one country"? How can we be safeguarded if the People's Republic of China and its Constitution are non-existent? All sorts of powers are derived from the Basic Law. Mr Gary FAN said "one dominating country" and "two subordinate systems" and there was intervention from the Central Authorities. He even said that additional requirements have been added to the Basic Law. All such remarks just do not make any sense. If everyone keeps on having this mindset, the "one country, two systems" mechanism will be vulnerable to attacks.
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