Transferring Environmental Evaluation Func Tions to the Environmental Quality Council H.R. 11952

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ON H.R. 11952 TO REO RGANIZ E T H E EXECUTIV E BR AN CH OF T H E GO VE RN ME NT BY TRA N SFER R IN G FU NCTI ONS OF VA RIOU S AGE NC IE S REL ATI NG TO EV ALU ATI ON OF T H E E FFEC T OF CER TAIN AC T IV IT IE S UPON T H E EN VIR ONM EN T TO TH E EN VIR ON MEN TA L QU AL ITY COU NC IL , AND FO R OTH ER PU RPO SES

JU LY », 11M5D

P ri nte d fo r th e use of th e Com m itt ee on Gov ernm en t O pe ra tion s

U.S. GOVERNMENT PR INTING OFF ICE 31-981 O WASHING TON : 1969

____ COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS* WILLIAM L. DAWSON, Illinois, Chairman » CHET HOLIFIEL D, California FLO REN CE P. DWYER, New Jersey JACK BROOKS, Texas OGDEN R. REID, New York ‘ L. H. FOU NTAIN, North Carolina FRA NK HORTON, New York JOHN A. BLATNIK, Minnesota JOHN N. ERLENBORN, Illinois ROB ERT E. JONES, Alabama JOHN W. WYDLER, New York EDWARD A. OARMATZ, Maryland CLA RENCE J. BROWN, Ohio JOHN E. MOSS, California GUY VANDER JAGT, Michigan DANTE B. FASCELL, Florida JOHN T. MYERS, Indiana HENRY S. RE USS, Wisconsin WILLIAM O. COWGER, Kentucky JOHN S. MONAOAN, Connecticut GIL BERT GUDE, Maryland TORBERT H. MACDONALD, Massachusetts PAUL N. McCLOSKEY, Jr., California WILLIAM S. MOORHEAD, Pennsylvania PAUL FIN DLEY, Illinois CORNELIUS E. GALLAGHER, New Jersey JOHN H. BUCHANAN, Jr..Alabama WILLIAM J. RANDALL, Missouri LOWELL P. WEICKER, Jr., Connecticut BENJAMIN S. ROSENTHAL, New York JIM WRIGHT, Texas FER NAN D J. ST GERMAIN, Rhode Island JOHN C. CULVER, Iowa FLOYD V. HICKS, Washington Christine R ay D avis, Staff Director James A. Lanigan, General Couneel Miles Q. Romney, Associate General Counsel J. P. Carlson, Minority Counsel William H. Copenhaver, Minority Professional Staff

C o n serv a tio n an d N atu ral R e so u r c e s S u bcom m it tee HE NRY S. REUSS, Wisconsin, Chairman JIM WRIGHT, Texas GUY VANDER JAGT, Michigan FLOYD V. HICKS, Washington GIL BERT GUDE, Maryland JOHN E. MOSS, California PAUL N. McCLOSKEY, Jr., California Phineas I ndritz, Chief Counsel Laurence D avis, Assistant Counsel Edna G ass, Professional Staff Member Josephine Scheiber, Research Analyst Gerald S. Schatz, Professional Staff Member Catherine L. Hartke, Clerk (III CONTENTS

Pag e Text of H.R. 11952______3 Text of Executive Order 11472______12 Text of S. 1075______------26 Statement of Dr. Lee A. DuBridge, Director, Office of Science and Tech nology, accompanied by Dr. John L. Buckley, Technical Assistant; and Frank Pagnotta, Executive Officer______...______14 Additional material submitted for the record: Letter from Phillip S. Hughes, Deputy Director, Bureau of the Budget, to Hon. Henry S. Reuss, dated July 7, 1969, re statement on H.R. 11952------43 (in)

TR AN SFER RING ENVIRONMENTA L EVA LUA TION FUNC TIO NS TO THE ENV IRONMENT AL QUA LITY COUNCIL

WEDNESD AY, JU LY 9, 19 69

H ouse of Representatives, Conservation and Natural Resources Subcommittee of the Committee on Government Operations, Washin gto n, D.G. Th e subcom mittee met at 10 :10 a.m., in room 2247, Ra yb urn House Office Building , H on. H en ry S. Reuss (chairm an of the subcommittee) presiding. Mem bers presen t : Re prese nta tives Hen ry S. Reuss, Jo hn E. Moss, Guv V ander Jagt, Gilbert Glide, an d Pa ul N. M cCloskey, Jr. Sta ff presen t: Ph ineas In dr itz, ch ief counsel; Laurence Davis, as sistan t counsel; and J. P. Carlson, minority counsel, Com mittee on Gov ernment Op era tions. Mr. Reuss. I )r. Du Bridge, a numb er of o ther members will be here in a minute but I think in the intere st of yo ur time we sho uld get sta rte d. Ac cordingly, the Sub com mittee on Conse rvation and Natur al Resources will be in order. Our purpo se is t wofold: To welcome you, Dr. Du Bridge, and t o get to know you because our committee jur isdic tio n and yo ur directo rsh ip of the Office of Science and Tec hnology have a good deal in common and we adm ire very much y our record o f achievem ent before coming here and what you have done since you have come here—a nd we are just delig hted to have th e op po rtu nity o f working with you. Secondly, we are here to receive the views of the executive b ran ch on our bill, H .R. 11952, which bea rs t he cosp onsorship of all the members of this subc omm ittee , as well as th at o f Con gressm an Jo hn A. Bl atnik, chair ma n of the Execu tive and Legis lative Reorg aniza tion Sub com mittee. In essence, what H.R. 11952 does is, first, to give statutor y recog nition to the En vironm ental Qu ality Council set up by the Execu tive order of May 29, 1969, and to tran sf er to it a num ber of specified en vironme nta l fun ctions of various executive branch agencies while re taining those functio ns in th e agencies themselves. Secondly, the bill sets up a decla rat ion of nation al env ironm ental policy fpiite sim ilar to the decla ration o f national economic policy con tained in the Em plo ym ent Act of 1946. In addition it sets forth an en vironmental bill of ri gh ts governi ng each Am erican plus a set of duties of a gen eral env ironm ental natur e th at all Federal agencies are su p posed to b ear in mind. (!) 2

Th ird ly, i n section 3, we would request from yo ur Council an annual con servation and environ mental repo rt and the n provide th at th at re po rt be stu died by the respective Government Op era tions Com mittees of the House an d Senate. H.R. 11952 is a somewhat na rro wer bil l, as you know , th an those subm itte d b y a good many Members of Con gress—M r. Dingell, myself, Senator Muskie, Senator Jackson—which broader bills in general set up a sep ara te ind epende nt council of env ironm ent al or con servation or ecological adv isers and in some cases give to th at advisory council the power to block certain administ rativ e action by oth er agencies. I think there is much to be said for an ind ependent council of c on ser vation adv isers and actually there is no thing inconsistent, in my jud gm ent, between such a separate ind epe ndent council and the in tra- Cab inet agency of which you are the Execu tive Di rec tor un de r the En vironm ental Q uality Council Executive o rder. We adopt the rather more modest appro ach in this bill of taking what there is, wha t the Presiden t has set up by Execu tive order, and what is in being, and trying to reg ula riz e t he relation ship betw een th at and the Congress. (The texts of H.R. 11952 and of E xecutive Order 11472 follo w:) 3

91st CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 11952

IN TH E HOUSE OF RE PR ES EN TA TIVE S

J une 9,1969 Mr. Reuss (for himself, Mr. Blatnik, Mr. Gude, Mr. H icks, Mr. McCloskey, Mr. Moss, Mr. Vander J agt, and Mr. Wright) introduced the following bill; whicli was referred to the Committee on Government Operations

A BILL To reorganize the executive branch of the Government by trans ferring functions of various agencies relating to evaluation of the effect of certain activities upon the environment to the Evironmental Quality Council, and for other purposes.

1 Be it enacted by the Sen ate and House of Representa-

2 tives of the United Sta tes o f Am erica in Congress assembled,

3 TRANSFER OF FUNCTIONS

4 Sectio n 1. (a) There are hereby transferred to the

5 Environmental Quality Council (hereafter referred to as

6 Cou ncil), established by Executive Order 11472 of May 29,

7 1969 (34 F.R . 86 93 ), the executive branch functions per-

8 taining to evaluating effects upon the environment which may

9 result from the activities authorized in the following statutes:

I 4

1 (1) Activities of the Secretary of the Inte rior and of

2 all components of the Departm ent of the Inte rior under:

3 (A) the Dish and Wildlife Coordination Act (Act

4 of March 10, 1934, as amended, 16 U.S.C. 661-666 c) ;

5 (B) section 12 of the Watershed Protection and

6 Flood Prevention Act, as amended (16 U.S.C. 1008) ; 7 (C) section 16A of the Soil Conservation and Do

8 mestic Allotment Act, as amended (16 U.S.C. 59 0p -l) ;

9 and 10 (D) subsection (e) of section 702 of the Housing

11 Act of 1961, as amended (42 U.S.C. 1500a (e) ).

12 (2) Activities of the Secretary of Defense, the Secre

13 tary of the Army, the Chief of Engineers, the Board of E n 14 gineers for Rivers and Harbors; the Board on Coastal En 15 gineering Research, and of all components of the Depart

16 ment of Defense, or of the Department of the Army, or of

17 either of them, under: 18 (A) Sections 9, 10, 11, 13, and 14 of the River and

19 Harbor Act of 1899 (33 U.S.C. 401, 403, 404, 407, 40 8) .

20 (B) Section 2 of the Act of August 5, 1886 (33

21 U.S.C. 40 7a ). 22 (C) Section 4 of the Act of March 3, 1905 (33 U.S.C.

23 41 9) . 24 (D) Section 3 of the Act of June 13, 1902, as

25 amended (33 U.S.C. 54 1) . 5

3 1 (E) Section 2 of the Act of November 7, 1963 (33

2 U.S.C. 42 6- 2) . 3 (3) Activities of the Secretary of Transportation and

4 of all components of the Department of Transportation

5 under: 6 (A) Section 138 of title 23, United States Code, as

7 amended by section 18 of the Act of August 23, 1968 (Public

8 Law 90-495). 9 (B) Section 4(f) of the Department of Transportation

10 Act (80 Stat. 931, Public Law 89 -6 70 ), as amended by

11 section 18 of the Act of August 23, 1968 (Public Law

12 90 -4 95 ). 13 (4) Activities of the Federal Power Commission un-

14 der sections 4(e ) and 10 (a) of the Federal Power Act

15 (16 U.S.C. 797 (e) and 803 (a) ). 16 (5) Activities of the Secretary of Housing and Urban

17 Development and of all components of the Department of

18 Housing and Urban Development under subsection (a) of

19 section 703 of the Housing Act of 1961, as amended (42

20 U.S.C. 1500b (a) ).

21 (6) Activities of the Air Quality Advisory Board of

22 the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare under

23 section 110 of the Clean Air Act, as amended (42 U.S.C.

24 1857e).

31-9 81 0 - 6 9 - 2 6

1 (b) The Environmental Science Services Administra- 2 tion created by Reorganization Plan Numbered 2 of 1965

3 (30 E.R. 8819) is transferred from the Department of

4 Commerce to the Environmental Quality Council, and all

b functions of supervision or otherwise of the Secretary of b Commerce or other component of the Department of Com- 7 merce over such Administration are likewise transferred

3 to the Environmental Quality Council. b (c) The transfer of functions effected by subsection lb (a) above shall not diminish the duty and authority of the

11 respective Secretaries and agencies listed above to evaluate 12 environmental effects which may result from any of their

13 respective activities under the statutes listed in subsection

11 (a) above.

15 DECLARATION OF NATIO NAL ENV IRONMENTAL POLICY

10 S ec. 2. (a) The Congress, recognizing that man de ll" pends on his biological and physical surroundings for food, 13 shelter, and other needs, and for cultural enrichment as lb well; and recognizing further the profound influences of 2 0 population growth, high-density urbanization, industrial 31 expansion, resource exploitation, and new and expanding

2 2 technological advances on our physical and biological sur- 2 ^ roundings, and on the quality of life available to the Ameri-

“1 can people, hereby declares that it is the continuing policy 2 j and responsibility of the Federal Government to use all 7

1 practicable means, consistent with other essential considera

2 tions of national policy, to improve and coordinate Federal

3 plans, functions, programs, and resources to the end that

4 the Nation may—

5 (1) fulfill the responsibilities of each generation as

6 trustee of the environment for succeeding generations;

7 (2) assure for all Americans safe, healthful, pro

8 ductive, and esthetically and culturally pleasing sur

9 roundings ;

10 (3) attain the widest range of beneficial uses of

11 the environment without degradation, risk to health or

12 safety, or other unintended, unanticipated, and unde

13 sirable consequences;

14 (4) preserve important historic, cultural, and nat

15 ural aspects of our national heritage, and maintain,

16 wherever possible, diversity and variety;

17 (5) achieve a balance between population and re

18 source use which will permit high standards of living

19 and a wide sharing of life’s amenities; and

20 (6) enhance the quality of renewable resources and

21 approach the maximum attainable recycling of deplet

2*2 able resources.

23 (b) The Congress recognized that each person has a

24 fundamental and inalienable right to a healthful environment 8

1 and that each person has a responsibility to contribute to the 2 preservation and enhancement of the environment. 3 (c) The Congress authorizes and directs that the poli 4 cies, regulations, and public laws of the United States be in

5 terpreted and administered in accordance with the policies 6 set forth in this Act, and that all agencies of the Federal

7 Government—

8 (1) utilize to the fullest extent possible a syste 9 matic, interdisciplinary approach which will insure the 10 integrated use of the natural and social sciences and the

11 environmental design arts in planning and decisionmak

12 ing which may have an impact on man’s environment; 13 (2) identify and develop methods and procedures

14 which will insure that presently unqualified environ

15 mental amenities and values may he given appropriate 16 consideration in decisionmaking along with economic 17 and technical considerations;

18 (3) include in every recommendation or report on

19 proposals for legislation or other significant Federal ac

20 tions affecting the quality of the human environment, a

21 finding by the responsible official that:

22 (i) the environmental impact of the proposed 23 action has been studied and considered;

24 (ii) any adverse environmental effects which

25 cannot be avoided by following reasonable alterna- 9

1 tives are justified by stated considerations of na 2 tional policy;

3 (iii) local short-term use of man’s environment 4 are consistent with maintaining and enhancing long 5 term productivity; and

6 (iv) any irreversible and irretrievable commit

7 ments of resources are warranted;

8 (4) study, develop, and describe appropriate alter 9 natives and recommend courses of action in any proposal 10 which involves unresolved conflicts concerning alterna

11 tive uses of land, water, or air; 12 (5) recognize the worldwide and long-range char 13 acter of environmental problems and lend appropriate 14 support to initiatives, resolutions, and programs de 15 signed to maximize international cooperation in antici 16 pating and preventing a decline in the quality of man

17 kind’s world environment;

18 (6) review present statutory authority, adminis 19 trative regulations and current policies and procedures

20 for conformity to the purposes and provisions of this

21 Act and propose to the President and to the Congress 22 within one year after the date of enactment such meas 23 ures as may be necessary to make their authority con 24 sistent with this Act.

25 (d) The policies and goals set forth in this Act are 10

1 amendatory and supplementary to, but shall not be con 2 sidered to repeal the existing mandates and authorizations

3 of Federal agencies.

4 ANNUAL CONSERVATION AND ENV IRONMENTAL REPORT

5 Sec. 3. The Council shall prepare and transmit to the 6 President, to the Congress, and to the Nation, not later

7 than Jan uar y 20 of each year (commencing with the year 8 beginning more than six months after the date of enactment 9 of this Act) a report (hereinafter called the conservation 10 and environmental report) setting forth (i) the condition 11 of the environment and of natural resources, including soil,

12 air, water, fish and wildlife, recreational and natural areas, 13 forests and vegetation; (ii) current and foreseeable trends 14 in environmental quality and in management and utilization

15 of natural resources; (iii) the adequacy of available natural 16 resources for fulfilling human and economic requirements of 17 the Nation in the light of expected population pressures;

18 (iv) a review of the programs and activities (including regu

19 latory activities) of the Federal Government, the State and 20 local governments, and nongovernmental entities or indi

21 viduals, with particular reference to their effect on the envi

22 ronment and on the conservation, development, and utiliza

23 tion of natural resources; (v) a program for remedying the

24 deficiencies of existing programs and activities, together

25 with recommendations for legislation. The conservation and 11

9 1 environmental report and all supplementary reports thereto 2 which are transmitted to Congress shall be referred to the

3 Committees on Government Operations of the Senate and

4 House of Representatives, respectively.

5 AUTHORIZATION FOR APPROPRIATIONS

6 S ec. 4. There are hereby authorized to be appropriated 7 such sums as may be necessary to enable the Council to

8 exercise its powers, functions, and duties under this Act. 12

Exe cu tive Ord er 11472 , May 29, 196 9 (34 F.R. 8693)

EST ABLIS HIN G T H E EN VI RO NM EN TA L QU AL ITY CO UN CIL AN D TH E C IT IZ EN S’ ADV ISOR Y COM MITTE E ON EN VIR ON MEN TA L QU AL ITY By vir tu e of th e auth ori ty ve sted in me as P re si dent of th e United Sta te s, it is or de re d as fo llow s: P a rt I. EN VIR ON MEN TA L QU AL ITY CO UN CIL

ESTABLISHMEN T OF THE COUNCIL Sec. 101. (a ) Ther e is he re by es ta blish ed th e Env iron m en ta l Qua lit y Co uncil (h ere in aft er re fe rr ed t o as “t he Cou nc il” ) . (b ) Th e Pre si dent of th e United Sta te s sh al l pr es id e ov er m ee tin gs of th e Council. The Vice Pre si dent sh al l pr es id e in th e ab senc e of th e Pre side nt . (c) The Council sh all be c om posed of the follo wing m em bers : Th e Vice Pre si dent of th e U nited St at es , See re ta rj' of A gr ic ul tu re , Sec re ta ry o f Com merc e, Sec re ta ry of H ea lth, Edu ca tion , an d W elfa re , Sec re ta ry o f H ou sing and U rb an D evelo pm ent, Sec re ta ry o f t h e Inte ri or, a nd Sec re ta ry of T ra nsp ort ati on, and such oth er hea ds of dep ar tm en ts an d ag en cies an d oth er s as th e P re si dent may from tim e to tim e dire ct. (d ) Ea ch mem be r of th e Co uncil may de sign ate an alt ern ate , wh o sh al l se rv e as a mem be r of th e C ou nc il whe ne ve r t he re gula r mem be r is un ab le t o a tt end an y mee tin g o f th e C ouncil. (e ) W he n m att ers which affect th e in te re st s of Federa l ag en cies th e heads of which are no t mem be rs of th e Co un cil a re to be co ns ider ed by the Co un cil , th e P re si dent or hi s re pre se nta tive may in vi te such ag en cy heads or th eir alt ern ate s to p art ic ip ate in th e deliber at io ns o f the C oun cil. (f ) Th e D irec to r of th e B ure au of th e Bud ge t, th e C ha irm an of th e Co uncil of Econom ic Adv ise rs, and th e Exe cu tive Sec re ta ry of th e Co uncil fo r Urban Af fa ir s or th e ir re pre se nta tives may part ic ip ate in th e del ib er at io ns of th e En vi ro nm en ta l Q ua lit y Co un cil as ob servers. (g ) Th e Scien ce Adv iser to th e Pre si den t sh al l be th e ex ec utive se cr et ar y of th e Co un cil an d sh al l assis t th e Pre si dent in di re ct in g th e aff air s of th e Counc il.

FUNC TIONS OF THE COUNCIL

Sec. 102. (a ) The Co uncil sh al l ad vi se an d ass is t th e Pre si den t with re sp ec t to en viron m en ta l qual ity m att ers an d sh al l i>erform such oth er re la te d duties ns th e Pre si den t may from tim e to tim e pres cribe. In ad di tion th er eto, th e Co un cil is di re ct ed t o : (1) Recomm end m ea su re s to in su re th at Fed er al policies an d pr og ra m s, includ ing thos e fo r de ve lopm en t an d co ns er va tio n of natu ra l reso urce s, ta ke ad eq ua te ac co un t of en vi ro nm en ta l eff ects. (2) Re vie w th e ad eq ua cy of e xis ting sy stem s fo r m on itor in g an d pre di ct in g en vi ro nm en ta l ch an ge s so as to ac hiev e effecti ve co ve rage an d efficient use of fac ilitie s an d oth er reso urce s. (3) Fost er co op er at io n betw een th e Fed er al Gov ernm en t, S ta te an d local go ve rnmen ts, and pri vate org an iz at io ns in en vi ro nm en ta l prog rams. (4) See k ad va nc em en t of sc ientific kn ow led ge of ch an ge s in th e en vi ro n men t an d en co ur ag e th e de ve lopm en t of tec hn olog y to pr ev en t or minim ize ad ve rs e effects th a t en dan ger m an 's hea lth an d well-b eing. (5) Stim ula te pu blic an d pri vate part ic ip at io n in pro gr am s an d ac tivitie s to pr ot ec t ag ain st po llut io n of th e N at io n’s air , w at er , an d la nd an d its liv ing reso urces. (6) Enc ou ra ge tim el y pu blic di sc lo su re by all lev els of g ov ernm en t an d by pri vate part ie s of pla ns th a t wou ld af fe ct th e qual ity of en vironm en t. (7) Assure as se ss m en t of new an d c ha ng in g tech no logies for th eir p ote ntial effects on th e en vi ro nm en t. ( 8 ) Facil it ate co or di na tion am on g dep ar tm en ts and ag en cies of th e F ed era l Gov ernm en t in pro te ct in g and impr ov ing t he en viro nm en t. 13

(b ) The Co uncil sh al l review pla ns an d ac tions of Federa l ag en cies af fe ct in g ou td oo r re cr ea tion an d n atu ra l be au ty . The Co uncil ma y co nd uc t st udie s an d mak e re co m men da tio ns to th e P re si dent on m att ers of polic y in th e fields of out do or re cr ea tion and n a tu ra l be au ty . In carr yin g out th e fo re go ing pr ov isions of th is su bsectio n, th e Co un cil sh al l, as fa r a s may be pra ct ic al , ad vi se I e der al agen cies w ith re sp ec t to t he effect o f th eir r es pe ct iv e pl an s and p ro gr am s on re cr ea tion and n atu ra l be au ty , and may su gg es t to su ch ag en cies w ay s to ac co mplish th e pu rp os es of th is or de r. F o r th e pu rp os es of th is or de r, pla ns an d pr ogra m s may includ e, but are no t lim ited to, thos e fo r or af fe ct in g: (1 ) de ve lopm en t, re sto ra tio n, an d pr es er va tion of th e bea ut y of th e co un trys id e, urb an an d su bu rb an ar eas, w ate r reso urce s, w ild rive rs, scenic ro ad s, p ark w ays and h ig hw ay s; (2 ) th e pr ot ec tion an d appro pri ate m an ag em en t of sce nic or pr im itiv e ar eas, n atu ra l won de rs, hi st or ic sites, and re cr ea tion a re a s; (3 ) th e m an ag em en t of 1*eder al la nd and w ate r re so ur ce s, in cl ud ing fish an d wild lif e, to e nha nc e natu ra l be au ty and re cr ea tion al opport unitie s co ns iste nt w ith oth er ess en tial use s; (4 ) co op er a tion w ith th e Sta te s an d th eir local su bd iv isio ns and pri v ate or gan iz at io ns an d in di vi dua ls in are as of m utu al in te re st ; (5 ) in te rs ta te ar ra ngem ents , in cl ud in g Fed er al par tici pat io n w her e auth orize d an d nec es sa ry ; and (6) le ad ers hip in a na tion w id e re cr ea tion a nd b ea ut ific at io n effort. (c ) The Co uncil sh all a ssis t th e Pre si dent in pre pari ng pe riod ic re port s to th e Con gress on th e subje ct s o f t his order.

COORDINATION

Sec. 103. Th e Sec re ta ry of th e In te ri or may mak e av ai la ble to th e Co uncil fo r co or di na tion of ou td oo r re cr ea tion th e auth ori ti es and re so ur ce s av ai la ble to him un de r th e act of May 28. 1963 (77 Sta t. 49) ; to th e exte nt per m itte d by law, he ma y mak e such auth ori ti es and re so ur ce s av ai la ble to th e Co uncil also fo r pro moting su ch co or di na tion of oth er m att ers as sign ed to th e Co uncil by th is or de r.

ASSISTANC E TOR THE COUNCIL

Sec. 104. In co mplianc e w ith pr ov isions of ap pl ic ab le law , an d as ne ce ss ar y to se rv e th e puri>oses of th is ord er, (1) th e Office of Sc ien ce and Te ch no logy sh al l pr ov ide or arr ange fo r ne ce sa ry adm in is tr ati ve an d st af f services, su pp or t, and fa ci lities fo r th e Co un cil , an d (2) ea ch dep art m ent an d agen cy wh ich has mem be rs hi p on th e Co un cil under se ct ion 10 1( c) he re of s ha ll fu rn is h th e Co uncil such in fo rm at io n an d oth er a ss is ta nce a s ma y be a vai la bl e. P a rt TI. C IT IZ EN S’ ADV ISOR Y COM MIT TE E ON EN VIR ON MEN TA L QU AL ITY

ESTABL ISHMENT OF THE COMMITTEE

Sec. 201. The re is her eb y es ta blish ed th e Citizen s’ Adv iso ry Com mitt ee on Envi ro nm en ta l Qua lit y (h ere in aft er re fe rr ed to as th e “Com m itte e” ). Th e Co m m itte e sh al l be comp osed of a C hai rm an an d not more th an 14 oth er mem be rs ap poi nte d by th e Pre si de nt. A ppo in tm en ts 'to mem be rshi p on th e Co mmitt ee s hal l be fo r stag ge re d term s, ex ce pt th at th e chai rm an of th e Com m itt ee sh al l se rv e unt il hi s succ es sor is a pp oin te d.

FUNCTIONS OF TH E COM MITTEE

Sec. 202. The C om m itt ee sh al l ad vise th e Pre si den t an d th e Co uncil on m atters as sign ed t o th e Co uncil b y th e p ro vi sion s o f t his or de r.

EXPENSES

Sec. 203. Mem bers of th e Com m ittee sh al l receive no co mpe ns atio n fro m th e United Sta te s by reas on of t h e ir se rv ices under th is ord er bu t sh al l be entitled to receive tr avel and ex pe ns es , incl ud ing i»er d iem in lie u of su bs istenc e, as a u th o r ize d by law (5 U.S.C. 5701-57 08) fo r i>ersons in th e Gov ernm en t service emp loye d in te rm itte ntly. co nt inuity

Sec. 204. Per so ns wh o on th e dat e of th is ord er are mem be rs of th e C itiz en s’ Adv iso ry Com mittee on R ec re at io n a nd N atu ra l B ea ut y es ta blish ed by Exe cu tive O rd er Num be red 11278 of May 4, 1966, as a men de d, sh al l, until th e e xpir ations of 31 -9 81 0 — 69------3 14 th e ir resp ec tiv e te rm s an d w ith out fu rth e r act io n by th e Pre si de nt, be mem be rs of th e Com mitt ee es ta bl is he d by th e pr ov isio ns of th is p a rt in lieu of an eq ua l nu m ber o f th e mem be rs pr ov ided fo r in se ction 201 of th is o rd er . P a rt II I. GEN ER AL PR OVIS IO NS

CON STRUCT ION

Sec. 301. Not hing in th is o rd er sh al l be cons trued as su bje ct in g any d ep ar tm en t, es ta bl is hm en t, o r oth er in st ru m enta lity of th e ex ec utive br an ch of th e Federa l Gov ernm en t or th e he ad ther eo f, or an y fu nc tion ve sted by law in or as si gne d p u rs uant to law to an y such agency or hea d, to th e auth ori ty of an y oth er such ag en cy o r he ad or as ab ro ga ting , mod ify ing, or re st ri cting any such fu nc tion in any man ne r. PRIOR BODIES AN D ORDERS

Sec. 302. T he P re sid ent’s Co uncil on Rec re at io n and N atu ra l B ea uty and th e C itiz en s’ Adv iso ry Com m itt ee on R ec re at io n and N atu ra l B ea ut y are he reby te rm in ate d an d th e follo wing are revo ke d : (1 ) Exe cu tiv e O rd er N um be red 11278 of M ay 4,19 66 ; (2 ) Exe cu tive O rd er Num be red 11359A of Ju ne 29, 1967 ; an d (3 ) Exe cu tiv e O rd er N um be red 11402 of M arch 29, 1968. Richard N ixon. T he W hite H ouse, May 29, 1969. Mr. R euss. Yoh have prepared a written statement. Under the rule that, statement will now be received into evidence. Would you now proceed by reading, summarizing, or whatever you care to do to make your oral presentation. As I understand it, Dr. DuBridge, you appear here this morning for yourself and for the Office of Science and Technology, and also for the Bureau of the Budget with whom you have discussed the bi ll: is that correct ?

STATEMENT OF DR. LEE A. DuBRIDGE, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY; ACCOMPANIED BY DR. JOHN L. BUCKLEY, TECHNICAL ASSISTANT; AND FRANK PAGNOTTA, EXECUTIVE OFFICER

Dr. D uBridge. Yes, that is correct. This is mv own statement but the Bureau has raised no objections to it. Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee, I appreciate the op portunity to express my views on H.R. 11952. H.R. 11952 would transfer to the Environmental Quality Council, established by Executive Order 11472, the executive branch functions pertaining to evaluating efforts upon the environment which may result from the activities of the Federal Government under a large number of statutes applying to much of the Federal Government, and transfers to the Council the Environmental Science Services Adminis tration. The bill also sets forth a declaration of national environmental policy and requires an annual conservation and environmental report. I want to assure you that the President shares your concern over the need for improved environmental management. This was one of the major problem areas that he identified for early study by his staff to determine appropriate action. His concern is clearly reflected in his action to establish a Cabinet-level Environmental Quality Council and a Citizens’ Advisory Committee on Environmental Quality, and 15 to provide for additional staff at the Executive Office level to address environmental problems. I will come back to a discussion of the pur pose and significance of these actions by the President. In my judgment there is a large area of agreement as to the desired results. There is some lack of agreement as to the specific actions that should be taken at this time, particularly with respect to possible changes in Federal organization and perhaps some as to the appro priate location for operating responsibilities involving environmental activities. The problems that face the Government, the problems of organiza tion of the Government for the purpose are the difficult ones. Specifically the large area of agreement includes: an appreciation of the complexity of the whole problem of im proved environmental management; recognition of the important role that will have to be played by State and local governments in solving environmental problems; the need to take into account environmental considerations in Federal programs and actions; recognition that there are fundamental conflicts between the goals of protecting and enhancing our environment and economic and other goals and objectives; the need for additional understanding of the fundamental processes in our natural environment so that we can understand the effects of proposed actions and better determine corrective actions; the need at the highest levels of Government for appraising Federal programs and activities and for improving coordination among agencies to improve efficiency and effectiveness. The relatively large number of agencies that are involved in dealing with environmental and resource problems and our impatience for re sults from both research and action programs suggests to many of us that additional changes in organization may be required. While fundamental changes in Federal organization may be de sirable at some point, it is far from obvious at this point in time what those changes should be. Instead, the desirable course of action is first to learn more about the problems, evaluate organizational arrange ments, and determine what further steps are needed to prevent further deterioration of the environment prior to making firm decisions on major organizational changes. This basic principle of management was recognized in the studies and discussions that led to the President’s decision. I want to empha size that the actions taken by the President to address the problems of environmental quality were designed to preserve flexibility for fur ther changes if they prove necessary and desirable. Major changes in Federal organization to deal with environmental problems should be considered in the context of Federal organization as a whole. In this connection, the President has established the Advisory Council on Executive Organization. As I indicated earlier, there are three principal aspects of the Presi dent's action. First, Executive Order 11472, signed on May 29, 1969, established the Cabinet-level Environmental Quality Council. The Council is chaired by the President and its members are the Vice President and the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Health, 16

Ed ucation , and Welf are, Ho using a nd Urban Dev elopment, In terior , and Tr an sp or tatio n. I serve as executive secretary. The Ch air man of the Council of Economic Advise rs, the Pr esiden t's U rban A ffairs A d viser, and the Direc tor of the Burea u of the Bu dget are observers. Th us, the mem bers of the En vironm ental Qu ality Council include those Cab inet officers with the most dir ect res ponsibility for envir on mental qu ali ty an d observers who are able to pro vide insigh t and ad vice with respect to economic, budg eta ry, and org aniza tio nal consid era tions, and on closely related urban prob lems. Th e Execu tive order establishin g the Council also pro vid ed fo r ad ditio nal membersh ips, sho uld the y lx* necessary, and the presence at Council meetings of the heads o f other departm ents and agencies when m atters con cerning thei r affairs are un der con sidera tion by the Council. The first meeting o f the Council was held Fr id ay , .Tune 20. A sam pling of the problems discussed at th at meetin g dem onstrates the in volvement of a pp ro pr iate dep artm en ts and agencies in s tudies le ading to the solut ion of thes e problems. For exam ple, a committee on the ha nd lin g, t rans po rta tio n, a nd d is posal of toxic mate ria ls consists of the Secre taries of Trans po rtation (c hai rm an ); Hea lth , Ed ucation , and W elfa re ; In te rior; and A gr icul tur e, and in ad ditio n, will include rep res entative s fro m the D ep ar t men ts of State and Defense and the Atomic En ergy Commission. A sta nd ing com mittee on outdo or rec rea tion was also agreed upon. Th is la tter committee will be sub-Ca binet in level and will include repr e sen tatives of the De partm ents of In te rior and Ag ric ulture, Corps of En gin eers, and several oth er agencies. There were many oth er items th at came up on the agenda at this firs t meeting. Th e point is th at the members of t he Council an d those addition al ind ivi du als ser vin g with the Council will be people who have the re sponsibility fo r action and whose conclusions might there fore be ex pected to lead to prom pt and effective resolution of problems. Execu tive O rd er 11472 also establishe d the C itiz ens’ Adv isory Com mittee on En vironm ental Qu ality. Th is Com mittee will be un de r the chair ma nship of L auran ce R ock efeller and will provide an im po rta nt source of inform ation and advice from the non gov ernmental com mu nity an d p rov ide liaison with the man y vo lunta ry org aniza tio ns aro und the country th at have a n interest and stake in the improved ma nage ment of the environment. Th is Comm ittee was enlar ged from the old com mittee and new members are now b ein g soug ht fo r this Com mittee. Th e th ird aspect of the a dm inist ratio n's pla n c alls f or the expan sion of the staff of the Office of Science and Tec hno logy to include ad di tional ex perts who would be immediately a vailable to the Council and to the President. Ass uming congres sional approv al of the Pr es id en t’s fiscal year 1970 bud get request for the Office of Science and Tech nology, our cu rre nt plans are to have six professional and an equal numb er of su pp or tin g staff assigned full time to the env ironmental qu ali ty activities. Th is staff w ould be headed by an A ssi stant Di rector of th e Office of Science and Techno logy fo r En vironm ental Qua lity— a man of d istinction we hope to find in this field. In a dd ition , eig ht oth er members of the OST p rofessional staff who cu rre ntly have fun ctions th at are closely rel ate d to cu rre nt en vir on mental ma tters will assist in the work of the Council. Th is staff can 17

provide the objec tivity th at is needed in he lpi ng the Cou ncil and the Pr esiden t identify the a ctions t hat are needed to attack environme nta l prob lems. Th e Office of Science an d Tec hno logy has ha d a long record o f pr o viding independent advice and assistance to the Pr esiden t and h as had lon g experience in wo rking with the mem bers of th e scientific, indu s tria l, and academic communities, and in attrac ting o utsta nd ing scie n tists, engine ers, an d social scientists to w ork on th e staff. Fu rth ermore, because of its location in an exis tin g str uc ture at the E xecutive Office level, the OS T draw s with relative ease on the expertness prese nt in Fe de ral agencies. Since a large number of problems which arise in the environ menta l area have to do with science and techno logy and their impact on and poten tial benefit or barm to our society, the Pr esiden t decided to use this existing office as the mechanism fo r su pp ortin g h is intere st in the envir onme nta l qu ali ty field. An y necessary extension of my office to handle this work can be done within the exis ting s tru cture witho ut the necessity f or new leg islation. Th ere is an addit ion al advanta ge in using the Office of Science and Techno logy in th is way. In ad dit ion to the Pr es id en t’s Science A d visory Com mittee, the Pr es id en t’s Science Ad vis er is also chair ma n of the Federal Council fo r Science and Technology. Th is Council in cludes the top scientist or engineer in each de pa rtm en t and ind epend ent agen cy of the Go vernm ent. I have alr eady requested th is Council to in crease its ac tiv ity in th e field o f environme nta l affairs and to reac ti vate its en vironmenta l qu ality comm ittee. Th e Federal Council also lias com mittees on wa ter resources, urban problems, atm ospheric sciences, and oth er areas relate d t o the env iro n ment. Ad dit ion al com mittees can be cre ated as needed. Th us, throug h the Fed eral Council and its committees a large n umber o f top experts now in the Gover nment can be brou gh t tog eth er to con sider in te r agen cy prob lems and to coord ina te th ei r efforts in this field. In sum mary, the Pr es id en t’s action reflected his best judgment as to orga niz ational arrang em en ts he needs to dischar ge his G overn me nt wide responsibilities fo r env ironm ent al quality. H e deemed t his action to be ap prop ria te at this point in time . There are three key aspects of the Pr esiden t’s action tha t sho uld be undersco red. First, the action is designed to assist the Pr esiden t in exercising lea dership in the development of policies and program s to improve the qu ali ty of the environme nt. It will be tte r equip the a dm inist ratio n to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of existing pro gra ms , ide n tif y new program needs, and promote the imp roved coord ina tion of agen cy activities. The Presiden t's action carefully avo ids any attempt to tak e on op erating fun ctions f or the Council or the OS T staff. O pe ratin g functions must rem ain with the depa rtm en ts and agencies where the re are re sources for c arry ing th em out. The assumption of such fun ctions by the Council or the Office of Science and Technology would quickly con sume the staff resources th at are av ailable an d p reclude ca rrying out the policy, oversigh t, and coord ina tion fun ctions of the Executive Office of the Presi dent. 18

Second, we have not iden tified any ma jor new activitie s tha t sho uld he assign ed by the Congress to t he Fe deral agencies at this time. As the need for additional prog rams and activitie s becomes clear, ap prop riate action will be taken. Th ere are man y Fe de ral agencies charged by law and by executive action with the responsibilitie s in many areas of the environment. T he problem is to get tho se actions more effective and better coord ina ted among the various agencies before a new org aniza tional stu rcture is undertaken. Thi rd , the action is designed to preserve flexibility for the Pr esiden t in th e organiz ation and manag ement of the sta ff resources th at are ava ilab le to him in the Execu tive Office. As you are well aware, an executive must have reasonable flexibility to decide upon the or ga nization and u tilization of the staff resources th at are a vailable to him if he is to achieve effectiveness. Th is principl e is certainly tru e with respect to the organizatio n and staffing of the Executive Office of the Preside nt. Th ere are sev eral po ints that I would like to make w ith respect to the specific pro visions of H.R. 11952. Section 1( a) wou ld tran sfer to the En vironm en tal Qua lity Council from departm ents a nd agencies nam ed in the bill “th e executive branch functio ns pe rta ining to evalu ating effects upon the envir on ment.” Sec tion 1( c), on the other hand, states th at th is “ * * * tr an sf er of function shall not dim inish the du ty and au thor ity of the respective Secre taries and agencies listed to eva luate the environmental effects which may result from t he ir respective a cti vi ties * * *.” I t hi nk t he re is a possibility of misu nd ersta nd ing o r con flict in the wo rdi ng here th at activitie s are to be tak en from the Sec retarie s bu t also leave th e Sec retaries with the responsibility. Section 1(b) would tr an sf er the En vir onme nta l Science Serv ices Adm inist ratio n from the De partm ent of Comm erce to the Env iron mental Qu ality Council. I believe it would be inap prop ria te to tra ns fe r to th e Council or to the E xecutive Office of th e Preside nt any such op erating functio ns. It is a very large and very effective lab ora tory. In any event, the organizatio nal changes provided for in section 1 would ap pe ar p rem atu re in view of the recent establishment by the P resid en t of t he arrangeme nts t hat he feels are necessary to deal with envir on mental qu ality problems, and also because of his establ ishment, as previo usly men tioned, of the Ad visory Council on Execu tive O rg a nization with a ch arter to review org aniza tional requirements of the executive branch. I would like to add th at the Cou ncil, chaired by the President, is a Cabinet-level council to meet and discuss policy prob lems, to have pre- . sented to them the lon g ran ge a nd s hort ran ge impacts on the envir on ment th at ar e taking place and to develop policies and proposals for action which can be tak en by the Go ve rnmen t: but action can't be tak en by a council. It must be taken by the responsible Secre tary, de pa rtm en t head , or agency head havin g the responsibilities in this field with the overvie w and coordin ation of the Council and with di rectives of the Presiden t to increase or alter or coord ina te activities in such ways as he, as chair ma n of the Council, sha ll direct. But the op erating problem s requ iri ng larg e staffs and large b udgets can't very well be handle d by a Cabinet com mittee. Section 2 of H.R. 11952 would declare a national environmental policy. As you know, existing statutes, regulations, and administrative practice already provide a large body of policy on protection of the environment. I believe, however, that a further general statutory pol icy declaration in this area could be helpful to th e President and the Environmental Quality Council. We would prefer to reserve judgment on such a statement until the Council has had an opportunity to con sider it, and it was asked to do so at its first meeting. Finally, section 3 of the bill would provide for an annual conserva tion and environmental report to be prepared by the Council and trans mitted to the President, the Congress, and the Nation. We recognize that a periodic report on the environment would be desirable. However, the provision of section 3 o f the bill does not appear necessary since Executive Order 11472 already contemplates tha t the President will transmit to the Congress periodic reports on the quality of the environment. Mr. Chairman, since that concludes my statement, I would be pleased to answer any questions. Mr. Reuss. Thank you very much, Dr. DuBridge, for your excellent statement. I think you are off to a flying start on the Environmental Quality Council,and we wish you well. I would like to direct some questions to your specific comments on behalf of the executive branch on our bill, and I know Mr. Vander Jag t, Mr. Gude, and Mr. McCloskey will have some questions, too. Let’s take up the three main sections of the bill and your comments on them. The first sect ion transfers to you—the Environmental Quality Council—certain environmental functions of a number of existing Federal agencies, while preserving the exercise of those functions in those agencies. Section 1 also transfers to you the Environmental Science Services Administration, which, as you say, is the old Weather Bureau and Coast and Geodetic Survey. I get your message on that. You say, in effect, that you would not favor the tran sfer of an agency which lias thousands of employees to your rather high level and numerically small Council. You persuade me. I think you are right, and therefore, at least as far as I am concerned—and other cosponsors will sjieak for themselves, though I think they will agree with me—I am prewired to accept your suggestion there and excise from the bill the provision to tran sfer the Environmental Science Sendees Administration from where it now is to you. We will bear in mind that anytime you and Mr. Rockefeller's advisory council think something ought to lie done with it, you are per fectly able to come to us and suggest it and we would then review that request at that time. So that would take care of th at one point. ESSA is in the Department of Commerce, and the Secretary of Commerce is a member of the Council. As new ideas and needs for re search investigations and so on come to the Council's attention, it is possible for the Council and President to direct the Secretary of Com merce to initiate within ESSA such actions as are deemed appropriate. The actual operation—hiring people, buying equipment, providing budgetary support—must be in the hands of the Secretary of Com merce, but he will operate within policies established by the Council and the President. 20

Now I ’ll turn to th e o th er question you raised about section 1, which is the fact th at in the bill we have both tran sfer red environme nta l supervisory fun ctions to the En vir onme nta l Qu ality Council and left them where the y are in th e Co rps of En gin eer s, Fe de ral Po we r Com mission, De pa rtm ent of Tra ns po rtation, et cetera. You seem t o be bothe red a bi t by the metaphysical notion of ta ki ng som eth ing from where it is and pu tti ng it someplace else, yet ha vin g it rem ain where it is. We di dn ’t mean, in ou r lan guage, to prese nt any such prob lem. Maybe I can make cle ar w hat we had in mind by reference to a recent celebrated case, which came before th is subcomm ittee. Nam ely, the pro posal for a landfill at H un ting Creek dow n here on the Potomac a few miles, where at one tim e at least the D epartm ent of th e In te rior and the Corps o f En gine ers in exercises of the ir e nvironm ent al ju ris dic tion sa id: “Yes, let this lan d developer fill th is section of the Potom ac.” At t hat time there was no En vironm en tal Qu ality Council in ex ist ence. Th is subcom mittee and its predecesso r stepped in and to the grea t cre dit of the De partm ent of the In terior , Se cre tar y Hic kel reve rsed the earlier decision and said : “No, they shall not pass. Th is fill shall not go throu gh .” "What we have in mi nd in this bill is the follo wing : If a fu ture H unting Creek case sho uld arise where t he Corps of En gin eers and the De partm ent of the In te rior sho uld, God forbi d, ten tativ ely sa y: “Yes, let the fill proceed,” we w ould want the En vironm ental Qu ality Cou ncil—yo ur Council—notified of th is and we would want the C oun cil to have the rig ht to exp ress its views to the De partm ent of the In te rior and the Corps of En gin eer s, if it wanted to, on the envir on mental aspects of th at p ar ticu la r pe rmit. We do n’t want, or env isage, the En vironm ental Qu ality Council, with its lim ited staff resources, sitti ng in jud gm ent on every thi ng a nd du plicating the w ork of th e various regu lar a gencies ; but very fran kly we would like to have you as a suprem e court is, informe d of every th ing, so tha t where you w ant to act, you may. Now, based on of f-the-record discussions I ha d w ith you in the recent months, I am un de r the impressio n th at fa r from not wa nting th at power and jurisdic tio n, von would want to be in a position where yo ur Council was cu rre ntly inf orm ed and where if, in the judgment of th e Council, tha t was the rig ht t hi ng to do, you could write a letter, make a phone call, or do wh ate ver you wished, to the con stituent agency, giving the overall views. Indeed. I thou gh t from your testim ony on th e purpose of the Council th at th is o versight functio n was included because you say, on page 10 of your testim ony, th at Pr esiden t Nixon set you up to carry out the policy oversight and coordin ation fun ctions of the Execu tive Office of the Pr esident. I will now ask my question, which is: As so defined—and it may l>e necessa ry for us to smooth out the lan guage o f this bill a bit—but as so defined, you on the En vironm ent Qu ality Council would not mind being kept cu rre ntly inf orme d of what the agencies are doing in the env ironm ent al field a nd h av ing th e power, if—an d only if —you choose to exercise it, to make a suggestion o r remonstrance to them. Is th at not so? 21

Dr. DuBridge. I got a quite different feeling about the purpose of the bill in reading it than from what you just said. The bill says, “There are hereby transferred to the Environmental Quality Council * * * the executive branch functions” that are then listed. It seemed that meant all these agencies in the Inte rior and Corps of Engineers, and so on, would somehow be removed from their existing departments and put under the direct cognizance and direction of the Council. As I said in the case of ESSA, it is not possible for a Cabinet-level committee to have operating budgetary personnel, operating responsi bilities, for actions which must be taken by a particular department. Now it is clearly the intent of the Executive order signed by the President that all of these activities th at are now going on within these various departments that do relate to the environment shall be given the overview of the Council and, thereby, the President. This means the following things will happen: As there come to the attention of the staff in m y office problems of the sort which you had mentioned, our first function would be to immediately consult with the agency concerned, point out to them the environmental problems involved and ask them if they can’t get together and work this thing out. This has already happened in a couple of cases that have come to our attention. Mr. R f.uss. Could I inte rrup t at this point to say: You say, cases that have come to your attention. We would want to set up some reg ular procedure wherebv everything in the environmental field did come to your attention in the sense that it was sent to you in writing. If your people don't have time to make a thoroughgoing study of every piece of paper that comes to you, that wouldn’t be the first time in Washington history: but at least we want to be sure that the Corps of Engineers, for example, doesn't validate a fill which has a disastrous ecological effect and not let you know, and then come around years later and say, “Oh, had we but known you were interested, we would have let you know." We want to impose the duty on them. That is the sole purpose of section 1. It seems to me, in the light of what you say, that there isn’t much difference between what's on your mind and what was on the minds of the sponsors of this bill on what ought to be accomplished. At least so far. Dr. D uBridge. The way you put it, I think you are right. The Council must be informed by the departments or agencies or by the staff of the Council, who would be scurrying around the agencies to find out what is going on. We have gotten an enormous number of letters already from various interested people, parties, organizations, individuals, around the country. They say : “Look, do you know what is happening in mv district that is bad for the environment ?” This comes to my attention. We can often investigate the problem, bring it informafly to the attention of the agency concerned; or if it is a problem of major policy, it could go to the Council for decision on what should happen. We found a number of cases where, say, the Department of Transportation and the Department of the Interior were in conflict in regard to certain plans that would affect the en- 31-981 0 —69------1 22 vironment. We were able to bring them together and get a change initiated. This can be done on an informal basis under the authority of the President, conferred to the staff. If the bill said that the activities listed therein, and the agencies carrying out these activities, shall keep the Council fully and currently informed about activities, actions, and so on, which they are taking, which have environmental implications— if I understand that this is the sense of what you mean, I think this would be a very good provision. Mr. R e uss. That is r ig ht : and I think, based on our colloquy just now, we can rework the legislative draftsmanship so it does not con vey to anyone the impression which it perhaps understandably con veyed to you—tha t we were trying to take all of these operating func tions out of a score of agencies and put them into your little office, which would, of course, have bogged you down. Dr. D uBridge. It puts it in the President’s Office. It makes him the operating head of all these activities, as I interpreted it. Mr. Reuss. I think that can easily be done. Mr. Moss. Would the gentleman yield ? Mr. Reuss. Yes. Mr. Moss. Isn't that done on page 4, beginning at line 9? “(c) The transfer of functions affected by subsection (a) above shall not di minish the duty and authority of the respective secretaries and agen cies listed above to evaluate environmental effects which may result from any of their respective activities under the statutes listed in sub section (a) above.” Mr. R et tss. We thought tha t we were so doing, Mr. Moss, but Dr. DuBridge points out, I think, that while the language you just read makes clear that the Corps of Engineers and all the other agencies keep this duty, this environmental duty, nevertheless it also seemed to Dr. DuBridge that his agency, rather the Environmental Quality Council, was being visited with coequal jurisdiction—and we certainly didn't intend that in every case of a fill permit, or a dam permit, or a harbor line or a federally aided highway, the Environmental Quality Council had to make an original and independent judgment. To do that would be duplicative, and it would also mean the Executive Of fice of the President couldn't do anything else, because it would be full time on this. Dr. DuBridge. We would have a tremendous amount of people going out on the field, determining the situation. These are tremendous operating functions. It would seem to us—and I am afraid others might misinterpret the bill also—in section 1(a ), you transfer to the Council all these activi ties and functions and make the Council directly responsible; whereas, as you pointed out, Mr. Moss, in section 1(c). you hand these functions back to the Secretaries, although the way in which this is worded leaves the Secretaries responsibility to evaluate environmental effects—but it doesn’t say they also have the responsibility for the actions required under the statutes previously listed. So it was mv interpretation that you expected to tran sfer these functions out, but still leave the Secretaries and agency heads the gen eral kind of responsibility for seeing if any other actions they take might impinge on the environment. 23

Therefore, I think this is a matter of clarification. I think you stated vour intention very clearly. Mr. R euss. The purpose of section 1(a) is: First, that the Environ mental Quality Council be currently and immediately informed of all environmental actions by the listed agencies. Second, that the Environmental Quality Council be empowered, where it wishes, to make a remonstrance or recommendation to who ever is doing the act or function which will affect the environment. Specifically, for example, if this bill. H.R. 11952, were enacted and if another Hunting Creek case came along, this subcommittee would invite you to come up and we would say, look, we think this fill is very wrong. The permit should not have been granted. Were you given notice about it? What did you do? Do you agree with it? And so on. These, I think, would be perfectly proper questions for us to ask and we want to put you in a position, legally, where your powers are consistent with your responsibilities. I gather from what you say that, if we make tha t clear, section 1 would be satisfactory to you—assuming also that we deleted the provision with regard to the Environmental Science Services Administration ? Dr. D uBridge. Yes; we would be glad to work over with you the wording on this. You keep referring to my powers. I am only acting for the President. Tt is the President’s Council. This Council works with and advises the President. It is inherent within the powers o f the President to direct agencies to alter their activities in such a way as are in the national interests. The purpose of the Council, of course, is to bring to the President’s attention precisely these matters of policy and actions which are in fluencing the environment so he may use these powers to direct the agency heads or to direct the staff to take such actions as seem to be necessary. But you are very correct in saying that the problem of information exchange is a very critical one. It is easy for these actions to be taken quietly without anybody knowing about them until maybe it is too late. This must work both ways. The agencies must be instructed to in form the staff of the Council on the actions they are contemplating involving environment. The staff of the Council will have a very large job in keeping informed, on its own initiative, of the things going on in the various agencies; and keeping informed, via contact with the pub lic, of the actions of the Federal Government, which are detrimental or possibly dangerous to the environmental situation. Mr. R f.uss. May I now turn to section 2, in which we do several things. We first set up a general environmental policy for all agencies of the Federal Government. Second, in section 2(b) we give statutory recognition to the indi vidual bill of rights, if you want to call it that, in achieving a clean environment. Third, we direct that all agencies of the Federal Government keep these environmental considerations in mind, in whatever they do. Of that you say in your statement that while various existing scattered statutes have bits of environmental control in them, there needs to be a general pulling together of this and then you say, and I quote: “We 24 would prefe r to reserve judgment on such a statement until the En vironment Quality Council has had an opportunity to consider it, and it was asked to do so at its first meeting.” Well, that is fine and understandable. We did our best effort to put together an intelligible and intelligent statement here, plagiarizing shamelessly from other statements where we felt they had done a good job. We are anxious, frankly, to report out a bill and to do so with the knowledge that we are working as a team with you. My question, therefore, is: Can’t the Environmental Quality Coun cil consider this language in section 2 at its July meeting ? I would hope this could have been distributed to everyone before hand. And either say it is good and you approve it, or make sug gestions for improving it which we would certainly be very partial to. I am rather anxious we be in a position to move. Dr. DuBridge. All right. You see, there are several bills on environmental problems now be fore the House and Senate, and we have quite a lot of them we have been going over with our staff and advising members of the Council and the President about. Therefore, we have had a rather heavy burden in looking at the various policy statements in the various billy. Most recently, we have gone over in considerable detail with Sena tor Jackson the bill that he has just reported out this week. Mr. Reuss. Section 2 of our bill is lifted from Senator Jackson’s bill. Dr. D uBridge. Yes, and if you would care to look a t the current form o f the Jackson bill as amended and reported out the other day, we have gone over that policy statement rather carefully with the Bureau of the Budget, and with the representative members of the Council, and we believe that constitutes a fairly good policy statement. I think it doesn’t differ much from this, but there are a few points you might wish to look at. Now that we know your desires on this, we will do a detailed com parison of your policy statement with th at one, to see if yours is better, or if there are some changes that can make them consistent. We agree with the desirability of having a good strong policy statement. Mr. R euss. Would you submit for the record, as soon as possible— perhaps you can do it rig ht now—the exact language of the declaration of national environmental policy, as stated in Senator Jackson’s bill, which has, in fact, been approved by the Environmental Quality Coun cil and the Bureau of the Budget? Dr. D uBridge. It hasn’t been formally approved by the Council, but it has been approved after consultation with Council members and Bureau of the Budget. I think it constitutes a pretty good approximation. The Council, of course, as it formally discusses this, may find ad ditional amendments it might like to make. Mr. Reuss. When will it do that ? Dr. D uBridge. I fear, because of the President’s tri p and other things, the next Council meeting won’t be until about the 20th of August. Mr. R euss. Well, because of that and because of the desire of mem bers to produce something as soon as possible, I would suggest the following: 25 You will be able to give us, this morning perhaps, the Jackson En vironment Quality Council bill and Bureau of the Budget informally approved statement. It may well be tha t tha t language is so close to what we have here as to be satisfactory—in which case my disposition, subject again to the feelings of my cosponsors, would be to substitute it for what we have in ours, because it would save you from the further editorial job of looking a t the rather minor differences between what we have in that language. So I think if you will be good enough to file that, we can fix up section 2 quite readily. (The text of the Jackson bill, S. 1075, as reported by the Senate Interior and Insu lar Affairs Committee, follows. The bill was passed by the Senate on July 10 as reported. A communication from the Bureau of the Budget regarding H.R. 11952 follows the Jackson bill.) 26

Calendar No. 28 7

91st CO NG RE SS 1st Session S. 1075 [Report No. 91-296]

IN TH E SENA TE OF TH E UN ITED STATES

F ebruary 18,1969 Mr. J ackson (fo r himself, Mr. A llott, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Bellmon, Mr. Bible, Mr. Burdick, Mr. Ciiurch, Mr. F an nin, Mr. Gravel, Mr. H ansen, Mr. H atfield, Mr. J okdan of Idaho, Mr. McGovern, Mr. Metcalf, Mr. Moss, Mr. Nelson, and Mr. Stevens) introduced the following bil l; which was read twice and ref erred to the Committee on Interio r and Insu lar Affairs

J uly 9,1969 Rep orte d by Mr. J ackson, with amendments

[Strike out all after the enacting clause and insert the part printed in italic]

A BILL To authorize the Secretary of the Inte rior to conduct investi gations, studies, surveys, and research relating to the Nation’s ecological systems, natural resources, and environmental quality, and to establish a Council on Environmental Quality.

1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Bepresenta-

2 tives of the United S tates of Am erica in Congress assembled,

3 That it is the purpose of this Aet to promote and foster

4 means and measur-es which will prevent or effectively re- 5 doee any adverse effeets on the quality of the environment 6 in the management and development of the Nation’s natural

7 resources,- to produce an understanding of the Nation^s 8 natural resources and the environmental forces affecting

IT 27

1 them and responsible for their development and future well-

2 being, and to create and maintain conditions under which

3 man and nature can exist in productive harmony and fulfill

4 the social^ economic^ and other requirements of present and

5 future generations of Americans,- through a comprehensive

6 and continuing program of study, review, and research?

7 TITL E 4

8 Sne? tttt? The Secretary of the Interior (hereinafter

9 referred to as the “Secretary”) , in order to carry out the

1 purposes of this titles is authorized—

11 - (a) to conduct in vestigations, studies,- surveys, re-

12 seanh; and analyses relating to ecological systems and

13 environmental quality;

14 -(h)- to document and define changes m the natural

15 environment^ including the plant and animal systems,

16 and to accumulate necessary data and other information

17 for a continuing analysis of these changes or trends and

18 an interpretation of their underlying causes;

19 -(e)- to develop and maintain an inventory of exist

2 ing and future natural resource development projects,

21 engineering works, and other major projects and pro

22 grams contemplated or planned by publie or private

23 agencies or organizations which make significant modi

24 fications m the natural environment ;

25 -(d)- to establish a system of collecting and receiv • 28

1 mg information and date on eeologieal rosea roll and

2 evaluations which are in progress or are planned fey 3 other public or pnv&to agencies or organizations; or 4 individua ls; 5 - (c) to evaluate and disseminate information of an

6 ecological nature to pufelie and private agencies or or 7 ganizations, or individuals in the form of report s, pufeh-

n n n n t l n r» r\n o zi o yy ci » 8 L i t 11V 'l lO j IV V lU o v d j i t l H l I l l i t L / i j

9 j 1 1 I t v 1 ll l l l v v" IV V U l l t l L/1U t v / kT’l v l l L p j v v / L l i l VlU kij 11 11 1I I IL T IF ti l 1

10 tiesy institutions, and individuals, advice and informa ■ 11 tion useful in restoring, maintaining; and enhancing the 12 quality of the environment.- 13 -(g)- to initiate and utilize eeologieal information in

14 the planning and development of resource oriented

15 pr-ojeets;

16 -(b)- to encourage other pufelie or private agencies

17 planning development projects to consult with the Sec

18 reta ry on the impact of the pro postal projects on the

19 nat ural environm ent;

20 -(+)- to eondnet research and studies within natural

21 areas under Federal ownership which are under the

22 jurisdiction of the Secretary and which are under the

23 jurisdiction of other -Federal agencies; and

24 -(j)- to assist the Council on -Environmental Quality

25 established under title F t of this Aetr 29

1 Sfi©? 4-09? 4ft carrying out the provisions of this tithg

2 the Secretary is authorized to make grants; including train

3 ing grants; and enter into contracts or cooperative agree

4 ments with public or privat e agencies or organizations; or 5 individuals, and to accept and use donations of funds, prop

6 erty , personal services, or facilities to carry out the purposes

7 /\f»vrr Llllk?f l i A TTTTuT

8 Seg? 4-93? The Secretary shah eonsuit with and provide

9 teehnical assistance to other Federal agencies,- and he is au

10 thorized to obtain from such department s and agencies such

11 information, data, reports, advice, and assistance as he deems

12 necessary or appropriate and which ean reasonably he fur

13 nished b y such departments and agencies in carrying out the

14 purposes of th is Act? A ny Federal agency furnishing advice

15 or assistance hereunder may expend its own funds for such

16 purposes, with or without reimbursement by the Secretary?

17 See? 4-O4-? The Secretary is authorized to participate in

18 environmental research in surrounding oceans and in other

19 countries in cooperation with appropriate departments or

20 agencies of such countries or with coordinating international

21 organizations if he determines tha t such activities wih eon-

22 fI v i 1I \i 1lUll 4- z~> i I t I'' 23 See? 49b? Nothing in this Act is intended to give, or

24 shah be construed as giving, the Seeretary any authority

25 over any of the authorized programs of any other depart 30

1 ment ef agency of the Government, or os repealing, 2 modifying, restrieting, or amending existing authorities or

3 responsibilities that any department or agency may have

w i f n v o q T i P P f t l m 11 o I t-i r n 1 r o i v i i v n > d u o i f I n o Ss p p v t ' f i i r v q n o 11 4 rW 1 t i l A V O I 7 ' Li L 1 \ 7 t l J V- 1 1 < 1 I t i l t l I V I I » A 1. '* 11 111 L I I 1 • J- l i t " t _ ) v V l ' I c l 1 A o l 1 cl 11 5 consult with the heads of such departments and agencies for

1 n n T U n » T \M .fin z \ I i j /» i J i I y i n z r t > 1 > z 1 < i i i i n i n Q t i n z r .1 m r n n r > n n n n o n y t T 6 tr r tt J tr tl p tth C tr i r tr t‘l i t r 1 V t t t r i t t 1 1 1 1 I l l t n l l r l It; t t t t j r t r i l l l l v l ^ h n 1 j

7 f i l l Til IPG f lO ll f i f p fff iv l" • L l l l L F I I l i t L1V7TT V7T “ T tT T T T T

8 See? -tide There are hereby authorised to he appro 9 priated such sums as may he necessary to carry out the 10 purposes of this thfer

11 TI TL E Jd 12 Stse? hffL There is created in the Exe cutive Office of 13 the President a Couneii on Environmental Quality -(here

11 inafter referred to as the ‘‘Council”); The Council shah he lb composed of three members who shall he appointed hy

1 () f l i zt I ■ i zl zi i i f f z ' o z i i »i t z i *i f 1 V 1 l j i l l z n n 'i i r z i 11 1 t . i h zl i i t i 1 li f Ii zi 111 v JL l v u l t l v l l l ' t t t oL 'l V v" 11 v I l l o IT ll. Il o l* I L"j LI V tl 11 LI »V 1 L 11 M IC

17 advice and consent of the Senate. Each member shah? os a f 1 OSlllfe of ? CXJ)C11 CHOC j OF attainments; he profes- 19 sionahy qualified to analyse and interpret environmental

30 trends of ah hinds and de scriptions and shah he conscious 31 of and responsive to the scientific? economic, social? es

33 and

*—"f za1i ■» i zi i 1 -f y n n n m i z«li V UK J K IT I I V I I I oTTVIl 31

1 S kFt -{a)- The primary function of the Council 2 shah be to study and analyze environmental trends and the

3 faetors that effect these trends^ relating each area of study 4 and analysis to the conservat ion, social, economic, and 5 healt h goals of this Nation. In carrying out this funetioiq

I a z \ 1 a i ISw kut tT" v v i i i m iI Tr< TK nr n tr rtI I

7 -{4)- report at least once each year to the Presi

8 dent on the state an d condition of the environm ent;

9 -(h)- provide advice and assistance to the President 10 on the formulation of national policies to foster and pm- 11

12 -(h)- obtain information using existing sources, to the 13 greatest extent practicable, concerning the quality of the

14 environment and make such information available to

4 IA Z\ T il l I A 1 1 /A 15 v t l v IH l LJIivT.

16 -(b)- The Council shah periodically review and appraise

1” new and existing programs and activities carried out directly

18 by Federa l agencies or through financial assistance and make 19

20 -(e)- It shah be the duty and function of the Conned

-I and the Secretary of the Inte rior to assist and advise the 2 2 President in the preparation of the biennial environment

n l i t x T K /\ T t z \ n t y zaz . n i »» z \z l i i n / 1 / \ y n za< i zaaa **)/ 1 * ? 23 { (. .J it V I v l H * I t 1 C t l l i l l v l l l l 1 1 l l V l O v ' I I v 7 I I «« v z O •

24 Se €t hhdr The Pre sident shah transmit to the Congress 32

1 annually beginning J un e 30y 1970, an environmental quality 2 report which shah set forth -(a)- the status and condition of 3 the major natural , manmade, or altered environmental 4 classes of the Nation-, including,- hut not limited toy the airy 5 the aquatic including marine, estuarine,- and fresh w ater; and 6 the terrestrial environment,- including, hut not limited toy the

7 forest dryland,- wetland, range, urban suburban and rural 8 environment; and -(h)- current and foreseeable trends in 9 quality management, and utilization of such environments

10 and the effects of those trends on the soeiah economic,- and

pniprO l I l C l rpfiiiirowpiifg 1 l_ II III 1 v"l II I II lib 1 •

12 Sfita 20-U The Council may employ such officers and 13 employees as may he necessary to carry out its functions

1 4- i i i /> 4 / yi« 4l i m A <«4 T -re o /I zl i t n \ n 1 1 i z i ( S >11 1 T lt O Y U 1 f 1 V t t r t l t V i I t lit ? 2VL“t . TTT U l l t l l H l Mt y t t w V l H l l l l i l H i l l y v i i i p i u j r r r m rr rv

15 the compensation of such expert s and consultants as m ay he 16 necessary for the carrying out of its functions under this -Aety 17 in accordance with section 3109 of title by United States

18 Code -(hut witliout regard to the last sentence thereof): 19 Sfita 20m There are hereby authorized to he appropri

20 ated such sums as are necessary to carry out the purposes of

21 this titha

22 SHORT TITLE

23 S ec . 1. That this Ac t ma y he cited as the “National

24 Environme nta l Policy Ac t of 19 69 “. 33

1 PURPOSE

2 S ec . 2. The purposes of this Ac t are: To declare a

3 national policy which will encourage productive and enjoyable

4 harmony between man and his environm ent; to promote efforts

5 which will prevent or eliminate damage to the environment

6 and biosphere and stimulate the health and welfare of man;

7 to enrich the understanding of the ecological systems and

8 natural resources importa nt to the Na tion; and to establish

9 a Bo ard of En vironmenta l Qu ality Advisers.

10 T IT L E 1

11 DECLA RAT ION OF NATIO NAL ENVIROMENTAL POLICY

12 S ec . 101. (a ) The Congress, recognizing that man de

13 pends on his biological and physica l surroundin gs for food,

14 shelter, and other needs, and f or cultural enrichment as well;

15 and recognizing fur the r the profo und influences of popula

16 tion growth, high-density urbanization, industrial expansion,

17 resource exploitation, and new and expanding technological

18 advances on our physical and biological sur rou ndings and

19 on the qua lity of life available to the A merican people; hereby

20 declares that it is the continuing policy and responsibility of

21 the Fed era l Government to use all practicable means, con

22 sistent with other essential considerations of nationa l policy,

23 to improve and coordinate Federal plans, functio ns, pro

24 grams, and resources to the end that the Na tion ma y— 34

1 (1 ) fulfill the responsibilities of each generation as

2 trustee of the environm ent fo r succeeding generations;

3 (2 ) assure for all American s safe, healthful, pro

4 ductive, and esthetically and culturally pleasing sur

5 roundings;

6 (3 ) attain the widest range of beneficial uses of the

7 environment with out degradation, risk to health or safety,

8 or other undesirable and unintended consequences;

9 (4 ) preserve imp ortant historic, cultural, and nat

1 ura l aspects of our natio nal heritage, and maintain,

11 wherever possible, an environment which supports dive r

12 sity and variety of ind ividual choice;

13 (5 ) achieve a balance between popu lation and re

14 source use which will perm it high standards of livin g a nd

35 a ivide sharing of life ’s amenities; and

16 (6 ) enhance the qua lity of renewable resources and

17 approach the m aximum attainable recycling of depletable

18 resources.

19 (b) The Congress recognizes that each person has a f un

2 damental and inalienable right to a healthful environment

21 and that each person has a responsibility to contribute to the

22 preservation and enhancement of the environment.

23 S ec . 102. The Congress authorizes and directs that the 35

1 policies, regulations, and public laws of the United States, to

2 the fullest extent possible, be interpreted and administered in

3 accordance with the policies set forth in this Act, and that

4 all agencies of the Federal G ov er nm en t-

5 fa ) utilize to the fullest extent possible a systematic,

6 interdisciplinar y approach which will insure the inte

7 grated use of the natur al and social sciences and the

8 environmental design arts in pla nning and in decision

9 making which ma y have an impact on m ans environ

1 ment;

11 (b) ide ntify and develop methods and procedures

12 which will insure that presently unquantified environ

13 mental amenities and values ma y be given appropriate

14 consideration in decisionmaking along with economic and

15 technical considerations;

16 (c) include in every recommendation or report on

17 proposals fo r legislation and other major Fed era l actions

18 significa ntly affecting the quality of the human environ

19 ment, a find ing by the responsible official that—

2 (i ) the environmental impact of the proposed

21 action has been stud ied and considered;

22 (i i) an y adverse environmental effects which

23 cannot be avoided by following reasonable alterna

24 tives are justified by other stated considerations of

25 nationa l policy; 36

1 (Hi) local short-term uses of ma n’s environ

2 ment are consistent with maintaining and enhancing

3 long-term pro ductivity; and that

4 (i v) any irreversible and irretrievable com

5 mitments of resources are warranted.

6 (d ) study, develop, and describe appropriate alterna

7 tives to recommended courses of action in any proposal

8 which involves unresolved conflicts concerning alterna

9 tive uses of land, water, or a ir;

10 (e) recognize the worldwide and long-range character

11 of environmental problems and lend appropriate support

12 to initiatives, resolutions, and programs designed to max

13 imize international cooperation in anticipating and pre

14 venting a decline in the qua lity of ma nkind ’s world en

15 vironme nt; and

16 (f) review present statuto ry authority, adm inistra

17 tive regulations, and current policies and procedures for

18 conform ity to the purposes and provisions of this Ac t

19 and propose to the President and to the Congress such

20 measures as may be necessary to make their authority 21 consistent with this Act.

22 S ec . 10 3. The policies and goals set forth in this Ac t are

23 supplementary to, but shall not be considered to repeal the

24 existing mandates and authorizations of Federal agencies. 37

1 T IT L E I I

2 S ec. 201. To carry out the purposes of this Act, all 3 agencies of the Federal Government in conjunction with their

4 existing programs and authorities, are hereby authorized— 5 (a) to conduct investigations, studies, surveys, re 6 search, and analyses relating to ecological systems and

7 environmental quality; 8 (b) to document and define changes in the natural 9 environment, including the plant and animal systems, 1 and to accumulate necessary data and other information 11 for a continuing analysis of these changes or trends and 12 an interpretation of their xcnderlying causes; 13 (c) to evaluate and disseminate information of an

14 ecological nature to public and private agencies or or

15 ganizations, or individuals in the form of reports, publi

16 cations, atlases, and maps;

17 (d ) to make available to States, counties, municipali

18 ties, institutions, and individuals, advice and informa

19 tion useful in restoring, maintaining, and enhancing the

2 quality of the environment;

21 (e) to initiate and utilize ecological information in

22 the planning and development of resource-oriented

23 projects;

24 (f ) to conduct research and studies within natural 38

1 areas under Feder al ownership which are under the

2 jurisdiction of the Fed eral agencies; and

3 (g) to assist the Board of Environmenta l Quality

4 Adv isers established under title I I I of this Ac t and any

5 council or committee established by the President to deal

6 ivith environmental problems.

7 S ec . 202. (a ) In car rying out the provisions of this title,

8 the President is auth orized to designate an agency or agencies

9 to—

1 a ) make grants, including trainin g grants, and

11 enter into contracts or cooperative agreements with public

12 or private agencies or organizations, or individuals, and

13 to accept and use donations of funds, property, personal

14 services, or facilities to carry out the purposes of this

15 Ac t;

16 (2 ) develop and maintain an inventory of exist

17 ing and future natura l resource development projects,

18 engineering works, and other major projects and pro

19 grams contemplated or planned by public or private

2 agencies or organizations which make significant modi

21 fications in the nat ura l environment;

22 (3 ) establish a system of collecting and receiv

23 ing informa tion and data on ecological research and 39

1 evaluatio ns which are in progress or are planned by other

2 public or privat e agencies or organizations, or indi-

3 viduals; and

4 (4 ) assist and advise Sta te and local government,

5 and private enterprise in bringin g their activities into

6 conformity with the purposes of this Ac t and other Acts

1 designed to enhance the quality of the environment.

8 (b) There are hereby authorized to be appropriated

9 $500,00 0 annually for fiscal years 197 1 and 197 2, and

10 $1,00 0,0 00 fo r each fiscal yea r thereafter.

11 S ec . 203 . In recognition of the additional duties which

12 the President ma y assign to the Office of Science and Tech-

13 nology to suppor t an y council or committee established by

14 the President to deal with environmental problems and in

15 furtherance of the policies established by this Act, there is

10 hereby established in the Office of Science and Technology

I? an additional office with the title “Depu ty Directo r of the

18 Office of Science and Technology.” The De puty Director

10 shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice

-0 and consent of the Senate, shall perform such duties as the

- I Directo r of the Office of Science and Technology shall from

2 2 time to time direct, and shall be compensated at the rate pro-

2 2 vide d fo r level I V of the Executive Schedule Pay Pates

2 4 (5 U.S.C . 53 15 ). 40

1 T IT L E 111

2 S ec . 301. (a ) There is created in the Executive Office of

3 the President a Bo ar d of Environme nta l Quality Advisers

4 (hereinafter referred to as the “Board”). The Bo ard shall

5 be composed of three members who shall be appointed by

6 the President to serve at his pleasure, by and with the

7 advice and consent of the Senate. Each member shall, as a

8 result of training, experience, or attainments, be profes

9 sionally qualified to analyze and interpret environmental

1 trends of all kinds and descriptions and shall be conscious

11 of and responsive to the scientific, economic, social, esthetic,

12 and cultural needs and interest of this Nation . The President

13 shall designate the Cha irman and Vice Chairm an of the

14 Board from such members.

15 (b) Members of the Bo ard shall serve full time and the

16 Chairm an of the Bo ard shall be compensated at the rate

17 provided for Level I I of the Execu tive Schedule Pay Bates

18 (5 U.S.C . 53 13) . The other members of the Bo ard shall be

19 compensated at the rate provided for Level IV of the E xecu

2 tive Schedule Pay Bates (5 U.S.C . 53 15 ).

21 S ec. 302. ( a) The pr im ar y fun ction of the Board

22 shall be to stu dy and analyze environmental trends and the

23 factors that effect these trends, relating each area of study

24 and analysis to the conservation, social, economic, and 41

1 health goals of this Nation. In carry ing out this function,

2 the Bo ard shall—

3 (1 ) report at least once each year to the Pre si

4 dent on the state and condition of the environment;

5 (2 ) provide advice, assistance, and staff support to

6 the Preside nt on the formulation of national policies to

7 foster and promote the improvement of environm ental

8 quality; and

9 (3 ) obtain info rma tion using existing sources, to the

10 greatest extent practicable, concerning the quality of the

11 environ men t and make such inform ation available to

12 the public.

13 (b) The Bo ard shall periodically review and appraise

14 Fed era l programs, projects, activities, and policies which

15 affect the quality of the environment and make recommenda

1G tions thereon to the President. 17 (c) It shall be the du ty and function of the Board,

18 to assist and advise the Preside nt in the preparation of the

19 ann ual environmental qua lity report required under section

20 303. 21 (d ) The Bo ard and the Office of Science and 'Tech

22 nology shall carry out their duties und er the provisions of

23 this Ac t at the direction of the President and shall perform

24 whatever additional duties he ma y from time to time, direct.

25 Sec. 303. The President shall transmit to the Congress, 42

1 beginning Ju ne 30, 1970, an annual environmental quality

2 report which shall set for th: (a ) the status and condition

3 of the major natura l, manm ade, or altered environmental

4 classes of the N ation ; and (b) current and foreseeable trends

5 in quality, management, and utilization of such environments

6 and the effects of those trends on the social, economic, and

7 other requirements o f the Nation.

S ec . 304 . The Bo ard ma y employ such officers and.

9 employees as may be necessary to carry out its functions

10 under this Act. In addition, the Bo ard may employ and fix

11 the compensation of such experts and consultants as ma y be

12 necessary for the ca rry ing out of its functions under this Act,

13 in accordance with section 3109 of title 5, United States

11 Code (but without rega rd to the last sentence thereof).

1;) S ec . 305 . There are hereby authorized to be appropri-

10 ated $1,00 0,0 00 annually to carry out the purposes of

17 this title.

Amend the title so as to read : “A bill to establish a na tional policy for the environment; to authorize studies, sur veys, and research relating to ecological systems, natural re sources, and the quality of the human environment; and to establish a Board of Environmental Quality Advisers.” 43

Executive Office of th e P resident , Bureau of the B udget, Washington, D.C., July 7, 1969. Hon. H enry S. R euss , Chairman, Conservation and Natural Resources Subcommittee, Committee on Government Operations, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C. Dear Mr. Chairman : This is in reply to your request of July 1, 1969, for the Bureau of the Budget to testify on July 9, 1969, on H.R. 11952, a hill “To reorga nize the executive branch of the Government by transferring functio ns of various I agencies relating to evaluation of the effect of c ertain ac tivitie s upon the environ ment to the Environmental Quality Council, and for other purposes.’’ It is my understanding th at, as a r esu lt of the discussions between a member of the subcommittee staff and a representative of this Bureau, it has been agreed that it will not be necessary for the Bureau of th e Budget to testify as requested. This agreement is based on the fac t that Dr. Lee A. DuBridge, Director of the Office of Science and Technology, will appear l>efore the subcommittee and testify on the bill to presen t the views of the Executive Office of the President, on behalf of the adm inistration. We have, of course, worked with Dr. DuBridge and his staff in the development of these views. Sincerely, P hil li p S. H ughes , Deputy Director. Mr. Reuss. This leaves us then with section 3, which is the section in which we, in the bill, said in effect “Let the Environmental Quality Council transmit to the President and to the Congress once a year, by January 20, a report on the state of the environment—what is being done about it and what needs to be done.” In your statement you again say that this would be most desirable, but you questioned whether it would be necessary since the Executive order setting up the Environmental Quality Council, as you say “al ready contemplates tha t the President will transmit to the Congress periodic reports on the quality of the environment.” I take it there you are referring to section 102(c) of the Executive order, which says, and I quote: “The Council shall assist the President in preparing periodic reports to the Congress on the subjects of this order.” Well, that is good as far as it goes. It really isn't quite what we had in mind, though. We didn ’t want just periodic reports. We wanted an annual report, because we have found in the case, for example, of the economic report of the President, tha t the intellectual drill re quired in reporting on the economic state of the Union, once a year, is a good one both for the executive branch and the Congress. Without some sort of statutory mandate, the President would be under no obligation to either make an annual report or indeed make any reports at all. He could always say, well, I have some periodic reports coming out. but not yet. And the threats to our environment are such that I know members of this subcommittee feel it would be most useful to have an annual report. Therefore, do I persuade you that this provision is a mild one, not intended to make life miserable for you, but it certainly would be useful ? Hr. DuBridge. Certainly the report would be at least annual—maybe more frequently—but certainly there would be regular reports to the Congress. If you would like to specify “annually,” I have no objection. The whole intention is th at there would be at least annual reports, with jmssibly intermediate reports on special issues as these arise where the Congress or the public should be informed. 44 It is my view that out of the Council will come a number of reports every year, but I think you are correct in saying one kind of sum marizing. definitive annual report is very desirable. T would certainly agree with that. We intended to do that. Mr. Reuss. Does the date we tentatively selected, Janu ary 20 of each year, bother you? That date happens to be the date used for the sub mission of the annual economic report. Whatever date it is, I know you will have to scramble as the deadline approaches, because that is the way things work. Dr. D uBridge. I have no opinion on what date is most desirable for such a report. Mr. R euss. T his doesn't bother you any more than any other date? Dr. D uBridge. No. I think only the question of the Christmas holi day season coming just before that may make staff work more difficult than if it were, say March 1, or something like that. But I have no strong feeling about it. Mr. Reuss. This has been a most rewarding colloquy, and establishes in my mind that there is a very close correspondence between your views and the views of this subcommittee. I am very hopeful that----- Dr. D uBridge. We are delighted to have this kind of congressional interest in the environmental quality problem, an interest which, as I said, the President expressed almost the first dav I talked with him after arriving here, and which we have been working on ever since. Mr. R e uss. Nor do I see anything inconsistent with what is sought to be accomplished bv this bill, and whatever Congress may do bv way of establishing a broader council of environmental advisers, I have a hunch, from previous conversations with you, that I think the admin istration would prefer to see how the Environmental Quality Council does for a few years before proceeding. Congress mav think otherwise. I certainly see a great need for your inter-Cabinet office, whatever may be done. Mr. Vander Jag t ? Mr. Vander J agt. Thank you very much. T would like to thank Dr. DuBridge for his very interesting and helpful testimony and thank him for the spirit of cooperativeness. T think it has been very, very helpful to the subcommittee. One question that occurred to me is on the Environmental Quality Council—the membership on it under the Executive order. With the tremendous impact that the Corps of Engineers has on the environ ment, why was it not made a regular member of the Council ? Dr. D uBridge. There are two points I would like to make. In the first place the President expressed a desire to keep the core of the Council a small body so it could have intimate and careful discussions and would not be too large a forum. He likes to deal with small groups and it seemed to be better to have the primary people responsible. Fu r thermore, he wanted to keep it at the cabinet level so that each member of the Council is a secretary of a department. It seemed inappropriate, however, to put the Secretary of Defense on the Council, in spite of the great activities of the Corps of Engi neers, because the Secretary of Defense has quite a lot of other things to do; but the Corps of Engineers has already been involved in some of the committees to be set up and they will certainly l>e asked to be 45 represented at Council meetings when things affecting them arise. It would not he a Cabinet level committee any longer if the head of the Corps of Engineers were a full member of the Council. But the rep resentatives of the corps can be called in at any meetings. You are absolutely right, of course, that, the work of the Corps of Engineers is tremendously important in either enhancing or sometimes degrading environmental problems. So many of the things that the Council will consider will certainly involve the activities of the Corps of Engineers. They are clearly under cognizance of the President and the Council can work to bring the Corps of Engineers into collabora tive arrangement with the other agencies. Mr. V ander J agt. I gathered in your colloquy with the chairman of the subcommittee that the Council does fully intend to make reports to the Congress. I also gathered from the colloquy tha t there certainly would be nothing inconsistent and it might even be helpful to have the nudge of a statutory requirement of at least an annual report. Dr. DuBridge. Yes; we have no objection to that. Mr. V ander J agt. I think all of us on the subcommittee and many in Congress have been very impressed with the establishment of the Environmental Quality Council. Would it not further strengthen this Council to have statutory backing for it ? Dr. DuBridge. Of the sort provided for in this bill. This is a problem of Government and there are prerogatives tha t I don’t think I am an expert on. I certainly see no objection to it, and the experts in the legislative branch of the Bureau of the Budget see no objection to it. So, as long as it reinforces and gives congressional attention to the President’s decision in the Executive order, it certainly can do no harm—and as you say it might do a lot of good to bring Congress more into the picture so we can have your interest and the interest of the various committees involved. So, to me this is a perfectly desirable thing and I hope in a number of the pieces of legislation they will recognize and support the Council activities. We will certainly need the support of the Appropriations Committees as we seek budgets for supporting the work of the Council. Mr. Vander J agt. So, as to this legislation, as we have gone through it step by step, I th ink we agree: as long as it reinforces and gives con gressional attention to the purpose and objectives of the Council, it actually would aid and be helpful in the work of that Council. Dr. D uBridge. Yes. As long as its operating responsibilities are not assigned to the Council but left in the agencies with the Council giving oversight and policy guidance. Mr. V ander J agt. That. I think, we have agreed we can clear up. We thank you very much, Dr. DuBridge. Dr. DuBridge. Thank you. Mr. Vander J agt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Reuss. Mr. Moss. Mr. Moss. I will waive at this time. Mr. Reuss. Mr. Glide. Mr. Gude. Thank you very much, Dr. DuBridge. I certainly concur with the chairman and Mr. Vander Jagt in their remarks. Do you have any sense of the extent to which the activities of the Council would create a burden on the various Cabinet members in the Council 46 who are going to be pa rti cipa tin g? Th is would involve an othe r slice out of th ei r tim e. Do von think t his legislation w ould help in that area ? Are t here a ny steps which could be taken t o make it possible fo r them to devote more attention to th e affairs of thi s Council ? Ac tuall y, th is is sort of a “think tan k” operat ion , isn’t it? Dr . DuBrtdge. Well, it has t hat element in it. Tt will be the task o f the staff to do the thinking about what is ha pp en ing in the envir on ment, what are the possibilities of avoid ing its degra datio n and im prov ing ou r actions to enhance the qu ali ty of the envir onme nt : but the n where actions, policy sta tem ents, and so on. are req uir ed, it is o f course bro ught to the Council fo r discussion, consider ation o f the p ros and cons, and what Gover nment actions are feasible and how the y sho uld be taken. So it is both a con tem pla tive bod y in the sense of con sidering the broad pro ble ms o f the en vironm en t; and it is also an action bodv in tryi ng to dev elop, un de r t he Pr esiden t’s direction, the actions to be taken by the agencies. Now, these actions will often involve th e agencies in ma kin g b udget requests or altern ation s in th ei r budget fo r the com ing years or to cha nge th ei r staffing req uirem ents, and so on, in or de r to adap t the operations under th ei r cognizance to the policies and directive s th at come out of th e Council mee ting s. So i t will tak e a top level staff w ith wide experience in the envir onme nta l field to c onsider and reflect on the various environ mental problem s. I am sure you realize wh at an eno rmously complex subiec t this is— the env ironm ent is ev erything outside ou r skins. Eve ry th in g we deal with in the world is the e nvironm ent. It is the o the r people a nd o the r things in th e world. We live off o ur env ironment. Hum an beings are evolved to live off the env ironm ent this pla net happ en s to possess. To s ay we should do no thing to degrade the env iro nm ent w ould be to sav we ca n’t contin ue to live. We must bre ath e air, use wa ter, cut down trees to pro vide wood fo r what we ne ed : we m ust mine copper and iron an d gold and all the other min erals and the oil and gas that are needed fo r civilized living . Living off the environme nt is a huma n chara cte ristic, and to say th at human beings shall not impin ge on th ei r envir onme nt is essen tia lly to say they shall not live. Th ere fore, the question is not how to avoid changin g the envir on ment. The question is how to avoid chan ging it as much as possible in a' bad w ay and how to c ompensate for the bad changes by good chan ges to enhance the quality o f the environment. An d so it comes to all the pro blems of re creatio n and na tural bea uty an d beauty of the landsc ape , beauty of ou r cities on the one side as well as ou r di rty , gr itt y, pro ble ms of the pollution of th e air and sewage dumpin g int o str eams and pollution of ou r lakes and oceans an d the clutterin g of ou r land with junk and solid was tes and all of these thi ngs. Can we find wavs to use ou r e nvironm ent , but to use it in such a way as to main tain to the maxim um possible extent its pu rity and its attrac tiv eness and its h ealth fulness. Th ere fore. I am only sa ving th at a wide varie ty of intere sts and talents and experience will be required within the staff of th e Council to con sider all these va rious elem ents—to consider the competing needs fo r us ing the environment fo r the use of land . 47

We mu st have powe r sta tio ns to ge nerate the pow er th at we need. Rut often the location of pow er sta tio ns tu rn out to be objectionable to people either because of possible ai r pollution or possible he ating of t he w ate r or possible defacement of the landscape. Yet we m ust have th e power stations. W ha t are the balances between the environm ental problems and the need fo r our economic surv iva l and o ur economic progress. So, all of these conside ration s must be b alance d so th e “th in k- ta nk ” idea that, you mentio n is very pe rti ne nt—because a great deal of thou gh t and ex am ina tio n and research will be needed t o m ake s ure ju st wh at policies the Gover nment can follow to acco mmodate all these thi ngs. Mr. Gude. T his pu ts a treme ndous burde n on the staff. W ha t steps hav e you tak en, both as to qu ali ty an d size of staff, to achieve the sort o f professional backup that the Co uncil should have? Dr. D uBridge. Let me first mentio n th at we mu st ta p widely the nongovernme ntal people of the cou ntry. We can’t br in g everybody in the Government bu t there are m any peo ple throug ho ut the countr y with expertis e in the various aspects of th e env ironment. Th e Pr esiden t’s Science Ad vis ory Com mittee itself consists of a core of experts in science, engin eering, and social sciences fro m the academ ic ins titution s, indu str ial com panies, and so on. They, how ever, set up a very lar ge nu mber of panels w ith a very l arge numb er o f advisers, c onsultan ts, mem bers of these panels. We have a very ac tive panel on en vironme nta l p roblem s which is now in the process of comp leting a 2-day meeting. They have been very active in br inging problems t o the attention of t he C ouncil. Th e citi zens com mittee has been instr ucted by the Pr esiden t first to ad d to its membership people in are as not alr eady rep res ented on the Cou ncil— on the com mittee—and also to seek con tact with a very wide numb er of expert, agencies th at exist aro un d the coun try all the way from the Au dubon Society and the Sie rra Clu b on the one side to the civil engin eering , sanitary engin eerin g groups and so on on the other side, so th at the vo lunta ry advisory services of a lar ge number of people thr ou gh ou t the cou ntr y will be fed into the office. Now to handle these problem s, the office will need addit ion al staff. I can’t predict at the present tim e e xac tly how ma ny we will need a y ear fro m now. I do know th at we now intend to find an additio n to the eig ht or nine mem bers of our staff who now work pa rt tim e at the least on env ironm ental prob lems. One of our busiest staff mem bers is Dr. Jo hn Buc kley, here with me this morn ing , who is an ecologist and who has been spendin g full time in recent weeks wo rking on the p ro b lems of th e issues to come befo re th e Council. There are a number of oth er mem bers of staff in the energy field, biology field, who are also wo rking actively righ t now; but we will need at least a ha lf dozen other full-tim e pro fessionals in the fields of con servation, in the fields of civil ian eng ine ering, in the fields of eco l ogy, biology, pub lic h ealth, who will w ork together. We think righ t now if we can get six people du ring the com ing few weeks th at this, in ad dit ion to t he eigh t or nine we now have, will constitu te a good core of staff sup po rt fo r the Council. E xperience will hav e to guid e us as to the future. Mr. Gude. Than k you v ery much . 48

Mr. Reuss. Mr. McCloskey ? Mr. McCloskey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. DuBridge, to sum this up, I would like, if I could, to relate what I understand to be the three approaches that we are trying to resolve here and state what we have agreed on and what we have disagreed on. I had the privilege of hearing your testimony on H.R. 6750, which has a little different approach, before a subcommittee of the Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Dr. DuBridge. Much of what I said was the same as what T said today. Mr. McCloskey Yes. The House and Senate committees that heard this and the White House seem to agree on the following principles: First, that there should be new emphasis at the White House level on environmental quality, upgrading some function in the White House to approximately the same level as the urban advisers and the economic advisers to the President. Dr. D uBridge. Correct. Mr. McCloskey. The recognition that environment quality now has at least as high a priority as those two aspects of the President’s decisionmaking. Dr. DuBridge. Correct. Mr. McCloskey. Second, we agree there should be an independent evaluation of 'all Federal activity, something outside the existing Council on Environmental Quality set up hv Executive Order 11472. I want to identify this precisely because H.R. 11952, as originally con ceived, would transfer evaluation functions to that Council. H.R. 6750 would create a new Council. Senator Jackson’s bill as originally conceived would create a new Council with its members to lie appointed with the advice and consent of the Senate. Then, the President’s budget proposal would add five new specialists to your own Office of Science and Technology plus a sixth individual who would lie assistant director for environmental quality. Those six staff personnel, backed up by secretarial help, in essence, would give this independent evaluation to environmental problems. Dr. DuBridge. Yes. Mr. McCloskey. If that third approach is to lie the method, you will need congressional budgetary approval of these six new staff members, will you not? Dr. DuBridge. We can accomodate them in our present budget re quest if it is fully allowed. Unfortunately, the House Appropriations Committee reduced our budget request somewhat. We hope the Senate may restore it so we can be sure to get these additional people. But if we get the full budget request—we had foreseen in part the work of the Environmental Quality Council in preparing the budget and pre paring our staffing plans for this current fiscal year, so within the President’s budget for fiscal year 1970 there are the funds to do the things I have referred to in my statement. Mr. McCloskey. This is my point. In your testimony on page 8 you say and I quote: Any necessary extension of my office to handle this work can lie done within the existing structure w ithout the necessity for new legislation. Dr. D uBridge. Except appropriation legislation, I should have said. Mr. McCloskey. So, in essence, if the House is to back away from 49

H.R. 6750 and H.R. 11952 which would do this by statute, the House will also have to approve six new members of your office to carry on the function you feel should lie accomplished. Dr. D uBridge. Yes. Mr. McCloskey. So we are in agreement as to the end result but we have different channels of getting it. Dr. D uBridge. I am not quite clear what the different channels are. As f ar as this bill is concerned, it does not in any way impinge upon the plans of the President to strengthen OST as the Secretariat for his Council, and we are working along those lines of strengthening the Staff of OST to strengthen the Secretariat of the President’s Coun cil. This bill in no way impinges on that and indeed gives support to tha t idea. Therefore, if that is what you are saying, I am in full agreement and the only thing we surely need to have is appropriations support, as we seek next year to increase the staff. We believe that for the cu r rent fiscal year the staff provided for in our existing budget request, and as described in my statement, will be adequate to get the Council through the next fiscal year; but we will certainly be reviewing in the summer the fiscal year 1971 budget proposals as to what the needs will be for fiscal year 1971. They wdl surely be larger. Mr. McCloskey. Do you anticipate creating these six new positions on the OST staff before congressional budgetary approval for fiscal year 1970 ? Dr. D uBridge. The answer is a little complicated because we already have some vacancies we are now trying to fill that were authorized in fiscal year 1969. The continuation resolution allows us to continue with our fiscal 1969 level of staffing and expenditures. When the fiscal year 1970 budget is approved, this will give us additional positions, so we are both filling vacancies under the previous fiscal year 1969 level, as well as looking for candidates which we will hope to appoint as soon as the fiscal year 1970 budget authorization is complete. Mr. McCloskey. I understand, from your testimony before the Mer chant Marine and Fisheries Subcommittee, that of the 24 professional positions now authorized in the Office of Science and Technology there are no full-time environmental scientists or ecologists. Dr. DuBridge. At the present time. Mr. M cCloskey. H ow soon do you expect to have any full-time environmental scientists or ecologists as members of the OST staff? Dr. D uBridge. May I ask my administrative assistant, Mr. Pag notta, to clear this up ? Mr. P agnotta. The answer to that question is ; Dr. Buckley is a full time staff member of O ST in environment and is one of 24 people on the OST staff. Mr. McCloskey. So, you have one now working full-time on environ mental quality? Mr. P agnotta. Full-time, yes. Dr. DuBridge. We are seeking additional candidates. How many po sitions can we fill tomorrow ? Mr. P agnotta. We can fill six more positions tomorrow if necessary. Dr. DuBridge. Under existing budgetary authorities. Mr. M cCloskey. Dr. DuBridge, may I ask if the Jackson bill, as it now stands, represents the agency’s position on the legislation tha t can answer this problem? 50

Dr. D uB ridge. You mean the bill reporte d ou t th is week? Mr. M cCloskey. Yes. Dr. D uBridge. The an swe r is ves and no. As vou know, we h ad hoped th at th e Jac kso n bill or the Dingell hill would not create a new agency in the Execu tive Office of the President, hut th at whatever kin ds of people, with wha tever kin ds of charges and duties are req uired to str en gthe n the env ironmental work, would he inc orpo rat ed with an exist ing str uc ture of the E xecutive Office of the Pr eside nt. Th e attem pt of the Presiden t has always been to keep his E xec utive Office as simple a stru ctu re as possible an d not to h ave a lot of d ifferent agencies with overl appin g or even com pet ing responsibilitie s withi n his own office. W e preferred therefore th at the J ackson bill and other bills would sim ply autho rize the str en gthe ning of the existing str uc tu re in the Execu tive Office of the President, ra th er than creatin g a new agency therein whose rel ation ships with OS T wou ld be vague, in pa rt com peting, and in pa rt sim ply unclear. Se na tor Ja ckson’s committee , however, has no t been w illing to follow the age ncy ’s hopes in this direction and the prese nt form of his bill does include—he now calls it not a council but a bo ard of envir on mental adv isors to avoid confu sin g between the two councils. I f this bill passes, the n the Pr esiden t would tak e it under consider ation and see how he could make it fit within the Executive Office of the President. We would have preferred not to have this com plication in the Execu tive Office of the Pr esiden t, but to str ength en t he ex ist ing s tru c tu re ra th er than ad ding a new elem ent to it, the charg es to which elem ent are in some ways du plica tin g, in some wavs overl appin g, the charg es alread y given t o th e Office of Science and Technology . Mr. M cCloskey. I can certainly un derstand vonr reserv ation be cause if t ha t boa rd were to be within the Office of Science and Tech nolo gy as vou proposed it, it would then in effect rep ort direc tly to you and also in your capacity as sec retary to th e Ex ecutive order cre ate d Council. Dr. D uBridge. Yes. Mr. M cCloskey. Than k vou, very much. Dr. D uBridge. S o it makes fo r a little aw kw ard situatio n, to p ut it mildly, to have an oth er agen cy also repo rti ng to the Presiden t with somewh at s im ila r duties to those th at the P resid en t alr eady assigned to OS T. An d even in t he Jackson b ill, a numb er of en vironmenta l duties are assigned to OS T, which are not in my mind not v ery clearly sepa r ated from the duties assigned to the Bo ard of En vironm en tal A dvisors which the bill proposes. Mr. M cCloskey. I w ould like to echo Mr. Va nd er J a g t’s mentio n of ou r co ncern because I th in k it comes throu gh loud and c lear, bo th from th is com mittee and fro m Me rch ant Ma rine and Fis heries, th at the present Presiden t's envisio ned empha sis on environme nta l quality, both throug h the Office o f Science and Tec hnology and his new Coun cil, is somewhat skeptically received because of the absence of the Co rps of En gin eers or the Se cre tar y of the Ar my or the Atomic En ergy Commission from th at Council. In ou r concerns with the en vir onme nt. we have found both the Atomic En ergy Comm ission and the Corps of Eng ineers to be maior contr ibuto rs t o pollution. F urt her more, the Office o f Science and Tec hnology , in th e past, as you have 51 sta ted, has not ha d ecologists w orkin g full-tim e bu t has been oriented toward the princ iples of atom ic energ y and science and techno logy— tow ard defense problems ra th er th an env ironment. I t’s th at concern pe rhap s th at leads us to the one disagree me nt th at I see here , and th at is : C an we be sure witho ut statutor y action th at the W hit e Hou se will con tinue th is emp has is on enviro nm ental quality th at the P resid en t espoused and you so ab ly testified to? Dr. D uBridge. I t hin k statutory acti on will be very helpf ul because when a p artic ular agency o r dep artm en t is not an ac tual member of th e Council it does not m ean th e C ouncil will n ot d ire ct th at d epartm ent to ca rry on or al te r its activ ities in such a way as to tak e int o accou nt env ironm ent al ma tters. I t’s still the P re side nt ’s Counc il and it ’s still the Pr es id en t’s auth or ity to dicta te or to direct the De partm ent of Defense, Corps o f E ngi neers, A tom ic En ergy Commissio n, a nd the ot he r agencies, as to how to acco mmodate th ei r activ ities an d jxdicies to the policies th at are evolved in this ra th er sma ll and intim ate Council which advises the Pr esiden t and then leaves him to issue such d irectives to a ny agency o f Government t hat may be involved. So, it’s a difference between ha vin g everybody involve d sittin g arou nd the table an d ha ving a small com mittee to consider the policy problems a nd then o f the Pr es iden t’s issuing directive s t o the vario us agencies. Mr. M cC loskey. O ne final question. One thi ng ab ou t this on which I would like to com mend you an d the Pr esiden t in yo ur tes tim on y: Is n’t t his the first tim e th at the Office o f Science and Techno logy has been involved in the form ali zatio n of a repo rt to the Congress as opposed to jus t th e Pr esiden t ? Dr. D uBridge. I do n't think so. I think the reo rganiza tio n plan which gave sta tu tory backing to th e Office of Science and Techno logy— made it a statutor y body— provide d that the Office of Science and Tech nolo gy sho uld rep ort not on ly t o the Pr esiden t b ut to th e Congress. Mr. M cCloskey. In matters of envir onme nta l quality? Dr. D uBridge. On I th in k maybe the activ ities of O ST , the broad spect rum of which are pro bab ly not widely kno wn t o the public o r to the Congress. Science and Technology has been con sidered in a very broad con tex t by my predecessors and by the staff of OS T. It has for a numb er of years lieen involve d in various areas in the civ ilian life th at do im pinge on th e environment. Th e Pr esiden t’s Science Ad vis ory Committee has, be fore I came into office, had an enviro nm ental panel of real e xp erts stud ying de eply the env ironm ental problem s. It had before I cam e int o office an urba n affairs panel to stu dy the problem s which a re largely environme nta l problems r elating to some of ou r u rban pro blem s. It had a com mittee on a cademic science which has been loo king at the academ ic in stitu tio ns an d how they are do ing all th ei r scientific work, inc lud ing work in envir onme nta l an d biological, ecological and othe r areas. So, t he in terests o f OST —O ST is almost a misnom er now because it goes bey ond the no rm all y narro w defined areas of ju st sci ence an d techno logy b ut is imp ing ing , is looking a t the areas where sci ence and technology impin ge on ou r social, ou r economic, and ot he r pro blems of our society. 52

Mr. McCloskey. Before. this Executive Order 11472, hud OST pre pared any reports to the Congress ? Dr. DuBridge. On environmental----- Mr. McCloskey. On anything? Dr. B uckley. Perhaps I can answer in part on this. There have been a number of reports which have been available to the Congress, but in the sense of a required report to the Congress I think the an swer is “No.’’ On the other hand, we often testified before various bodies of the Congress in response and we have provided materials to them. Dr. DuBridge. We have issued public reports. Mr. McCloskey. I merely wanted to convey the sense of commen dation that the President's choice of the first topic on which the OST would, by statutory authority, make a report to the Congress peri odically is environmental quality. And I am delighted by it. Thank you. Mr. Reuss. Mr. Moss? Mr. Moss. First, Doctor, I want to extend my apology for missing your personal delivery of your statement. I found myself faced with the problem common to many Members of the Congress: Conflicting committee meetings. Dr. DuBridge. I know what you mean. Mr. Moss. I am very much interested in pursuing the questioning and expressing the concern which has lieen voiced by the gentleman from Michigan and my colleague from California, Mr. McCloskey, on the Corps of Engineers which has in a free-wheeling fashion been gran ting permits for the filling of wetlands, I think, without due re gard to the impact upon the environment—showing only an interest in navigation and not in the broader and, in many instances, the more significant, values of our societv. It seems to me, the fact the Secretary of Defense is an overburdened man—and no one would question tha t—would hardlv constitute jus tification in view of the fact that he has three subordinate secretaries for each of the departments of the military department, and under the Executive order itself there is specific authority granted for the designation of an alternate. My question goes to that very p oint: To what extent does the Cabi net member designated directly participate in the meetings, and to what extent is an alternate involved rath er than the Cabinet officer? Dr. D uBridge. Well, experience with the Environmental Quality Council extends only to its first meeting, which was held in June, and all the Cabinet officers were there except one who was on the west, coast, who was represented bv his deputy. It has been mv experience in the Urban Affairs Council, which is a somewhat parallel organiza tion, tha t when the President is in the chair, the Cabinet members are there if they are in town. The only occasion on which Cabinet members have not appeared at the Urban Affairs Council is where they either had an appearance on the Hill—which takes precedence even over a Cabinet room meeting—or whether they have been out of town on an unavoidable trip. Therefore, it is the Cabinet people who have been involved in the three agencies outside the Cabinet itself, the three councils that I have had experience with and have been sitting with: The National Se curity Council, Urban Affairs Council, and the Environmental Qual- 53 ity Council, in all three of which the President has always been in the chair and the Cabinet members have always been there except when absolutely unavoidably detained. Mr. Moss. Are you cofining those comments to your experiences of the past 6 months? Dr. DuBridge. Yes. Mr. Moss. Because----- Dr. DuBridge. That’s all the experience I had. Mr. Moss. In my observation, frequently Cabinet committees tend to be, after say the first meeting or two, meetings of designees or sub stitutes for the Cabinet officers. Admittedly, the Cabinet officers are very busy. Dr. D uBridge. My experience goes back only 6 months; but it has been my experience under this administration t hat when the President is in the chair, the Cabinet officers are there, too. Mr. Moss. If the Council determines upon a policy which should be immediately communicated to the Corps of Engineers, would it be through the Secretary of Defense directly to the Chief of the Corps or through the Secretary of the Army ? Dr. DuBridge. It would be from the President through the Secretary of Defense, transmitted through the Secretary of the Army to the Corps of Engineers. Directives made through the top man in the agency. Mr. Moss. There is no input in the discussion from DOD, Depart ment of Army, or Chief of Engineers? Dr. D uBridge. When we come to problems which are on the agenda involving DOD, we will certainly ask DOD representatives to be present. Mr. Moss. You made the further statement tha t the President could direct any department or agency. Does that extend to the independent regulatory commissions such as the Federal Power Commission or the Interstate Commerce Commission? I recall an instance where Franklin Roosevelt directed, I believe, Chairman Eastman of the Federal Power Commission—or of the ICC—to take a specific action or to perform a specific act and the Commission Chairman quoted the independence of the agency as the reason for failing to comply with the directive or the order of the President. Isn ’t there in this area of the independent regulatory agencies at least a shading of gray as to the authority of the President to direct their participation or their actions? Dr. D uBridge. Yes. I think one would have to look at each agency separately and see what the Congress provided as to its independence as to whether it does have independence from the President or whether it does not. In some agencies, like the normal independent agencies, the Atomic Energy Commission, and so on, are clearly reporting directly to the President. I would have to look at the statutes of some of the regulatory agencies. Mr. Moss. There are two types of independent agencies. AEC, which is not within a department, is therefore independent of a de partment? Dr. DuBridge. Yes. 54 Mr. Moss. But the independent regulatory agencies performing the duties of the Congress under the commerce clause of the Constitution are made independent of the Executive and of the Congress for the purpose of carrying out their regulatory functions? Dr. DuBridge. Yes, sir. Mr. Moss. That brings me to the next question, which is the statu tory approach, rather than just reliance upon an Executive order. The statutory approach could bring these agencies very clearly into the active participation, and under the jurisdiction of the policy pro posals, of the Office of the Science Adviser, whatever the hoard, the environmental board, whatever the structure might be. This could be accomplished by statute where it couldn’t be accomplished, if I ’m correct, by Executive order. Dr. DvBridge. Yes, I think you’re right. I’m not clear about the statutory responsibilities and independence of the regulatory agencies, and I ’m sure you are. Mr. Moss. I have served for 15 years on the Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee, where we deal with these agencies. Dr. DuBridge. If you think there is a statutory need for legisla tion, so th at th eir activities in the environmental field can come under the directive of the President as Chairman of the Environmental Quality Council, this would bring in a statutory provision tha t I didn’t touch on in my remarks and indeed hadn’t considered before you brought up the question. Mr. Moss. I will, in order to make this point more precise, direct a letter to you at a very early date. On the occasion of that letter I will deal specifically with an item you mentioned—power stations—be cause there would probably be two approaches to power reliability upon which you will be called to comment. It’s my understanding that you have advised with Federal Power Commission Chairman White and Commissioner O’Connor—at least you are familiar with their bill on power reliability, or are you fa miliar with the legislation I have introduced on power reliability? Dr. DuBridge. Is this the bill that involves also the environmental problems of power stations ? Mr. Moss. Yes. Dr. DuBridge. Yes. Mr. Moss. The difference being that the bill offered by the tw’O Commissioners on their own behalf downgrades the environmental function and makes it advisory only, while the bill which I have intro duced permits a veto recognizing, for example, I think, the concern tha t Congressman McCloskey expressed about the AEC, which in connection with power goes to thermal pollution. I regard this as a very serious problem, as we have an increasing need for ever more, and certainly ever larger, power stations, talking in the range of two or three or four, maybe 10 thousand megawatt stations. Dr. DuBridge. As you probably know there is a group in my office which has been charged by the President with studying our whole problem of energy policy in this country. This includes the relation between fossil fuel and nuclear energy, the problems of siting power- 55 plants, of environmental effects of powerplants and of transmission lines and pipe lines, as well as trade and economic policies having to do with energy. Tha t group is headed by Mr. David Freeman and has been in close touch with these bills, and we are trying to promote the provisions of some of these bills that give more adequate and clear authority to con sider environmental problems in all siting of power stations and power facilities. Our office and the President are in favor of giving adequate author ity so the siting of power lines and facilities will be done only after due consideration of environmental problems. Mr. Moss. I want to thank you not only for your formal statement but for the response, the spirit of cooperation which has been clearly evidenced throughout the morning and I will, as I indicated, address at a very early date a letter to you on the more specific question. Dr. DuBridge. Thank you. Mr. Reuss. The problem raised by Congressman Moss and others on Government-by-committee recalls that jingle you may have heard: In none of the parks In none of our cities Are monuments erected To committees. [Laughter.] Dr. D uBridge. Yes. Mr. R euss. I think you have to make a value judgement: If you get your committee or Council high enough, and in this case one can’t complain, headed by the President, and with most of the Cabinet in it—if you get it at that level, you do get an imprimatur of some im portance. If you do that, you probably sacrifice attendance and don’t actually get the President and the Cabinet there every month as you would like. As f ar as I ’m concerned, this is worth a good try. At least you have the high level. Whoever the Cabinet member sends, he has to be some one who speaks with their authority. Dr. D uBridge. Correct. Mr. R euss. I have great hopes that, whatever else may be done by way of a truly independent council, the Environmental Quality Coun cil can be a very important part of the Government. Dr. D uBridge. May I make a comment on the substructure which will be required to support the Environmental Quality Council? Each Cabinet member represented has been asked to name a top level staff member in his department who will work with me and my staff on the staff work required so that we will have a kind of sub-Cabinet level staff director's group. And with those designees, we will conduct our day-by-day conversations and discussions having to do with the policy items, the factual items and so on, which will be brought to the atten tion of the Council and which will then be responsible for working out the details of implementing the Council’s policies and directives and so on. 56 So, there will be a very broad infrastructure, so to speak, of staff collaboration and support to the work of the Council. But when the Cabinet member himself designates a staff member to be his represen tative, it is up to him to carry out and coordinate within his department and other departments the staff work required. Mr. Reuss. T o conclude, unless you gentlemen have anything fu r ther you would like to add, we are very grateful to you for your con tribution. I think we have made real progress. We shall very shortly address an informal letter to you containing a few language changes, and then I think we shall have attained something like a meeting-of- the-minds and we shall see where we go from there. Thank you, Dr. DuBridge. The subcommittee will now stand adjourned. (Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the subcommittee adjourned.) o