[This interview is a project of the Ozark Heritage Institute and the Oral History Office of the University of Central in Conway, Arkansas. The interviewer is Sondra Gordy. The interviewee is Betty Summerville. The date of the interview is January 16, 1996.] G:I've already explained that I'm interviewing you on January 16, [1996] in your home in Little Rock at 1900 Marshall and I wondered if you would mind telling us where you were born and where your home was. S:Okay I was born in Conway, Arkansas where you're teaching now. [laughter] G:And your maiden name was Gatewood. S:Right my maiden name was Gatewood. Betty Jane Gatewood and I attended school there through twelfth grade and that was my home all during the time I was born and growing up. Is that enough? G:That's fine. You can tell me some more if you want. S:Alright. After that I left, oh I believe it was in 1965***[19]46, excuse me and came to Little Rock to attend Philander Smith College, which I did. I spent three years at Philander Smith College and received my Bachelor of Science Degree, I believe it was. It's been a long time. G:[laughter] I know. S:After that now during the time I was in school here, my second year, my sophomore year my husband and I***I had met my

1 Summerville

husband during the first year, fell in love. G:Immediately, of course. S:And the second year we married and four months later we conceived a child, a baby, and after conception of the baby I attended for the rest of that year. Then I dropped out for a year to have my baby. Came back to school and stayed another year or two, conceived again the second child and after I dropped out after that year was up and I stayed home with my mother and my husband was still in school here. So I came back later on. He graduated from college in 1949 and I finally graduated in the summer of 1951. So after that/ G:With two children. S:With two children, that's true, very, very, busy too. So Mike worked in Wynne, Arkansas. The first job was there and I stayed home with my parents there in Conway until he could come and visit with me because I didn't work and it was very difficult for him to take care of us there and Seth too so my mother and father were always happy to have us home. And well after that Mike worked in Wynne for a couple of years, I believe and***it's been a long time it's hard to remember the very little intricacies but I'm trying to stay on the surface anyway. But/ G:When did you start at Horace Mann, do you remember? S:I'm getting to that yes. But that's what you want isn't it?

2 Summerville

G:Right. S:Anyway well we went on to Fort Smith and he worked there and S:he stayed there for about three or four years--three years I think. Then came back and at that point somewhere during that time I came to Little Rock looking for a job. I worked at Menifee, Arkansas for about two years and after that time I was looking for something bigger. So we came to Little Rock again and that was in 1955 I think and I went over and talked with Dr. [LeRoy] Christophe, who was the principal of Dunbar and later at Horace Mann. And I started work at Dunbar Junior High School, which was the high school also at that time. And Horace Mann was being built. After they needed a school nurse, the school nurse whom they had was about to leave. And I was right on time. So when I started there I just fell in love with it. I started as school nurse and I had to teach health to ninth graders for about two years I believe. Then we moved into Horace Mann. At that time I was part-time school nurse at Dunbar, mornings; part- time Horace Mann, afternoons. So that's why I was telling you that some of the information I wouldn't be able to give you. I don't know that much. G:Right, right. But that still you were there and you have some memories of it. So even though you weren't a classroom teacher during the Lost Year you were being a nurse or you

3 Summerville

were assigned to be a nurse at two different schools, right? S:That's true. Plus I, during that particular year, I think one entire semester I was doing them both and then I left Dunbar S:and went full-time at Horace Mann during the second part of the Lost Year. And I had to work on the records there in the health room and also when the football, I believe football students, we were just, you know, doing what we could to make it seem as if it were a regular school year when it really wasn't. And I went to elementary schools, talked to children, the little elementary children about health, how to brush their teeth and things like that. And did hearing tests for them at the school and also I think I did eye exams and things like that. So I was very busy during that time even though we did close. G:Okay let me see if I am understanding you correctly. When you came to Little Rock you worked at Dunbar totally teaching health and being a nurse. When Horace Mann opened, which to my recollection and from my reading, opened for the first year in [19]55-[19]56. If that's a Bearcat Annual or student yearbook***see the problem is the Bearcat is for Dunbar and it's also for Horace Mann. So that's where my problem is. S:So you're probably right then because you're talking/ G:See if it says Dunbar or if that says Horace Mann. S:Horace Mann.

4 Summerville

G:Okay so then [19]57***the problem is when they say [19]56 I don't know if that's [19]56-57 or if that's/ S:It's [19]56-57. Yes, I remember that. G:Okay. So when they only put one number on the front I'm not G:really sure. They often times put just the spring. S:I see what you're saying. [19]55-56. So this [19]56*** G:Would be [19]55-56. S:You're probably right then. Because I really don't remember. But I do know they had a Horace Mann***I mean could be that's when they opened. G:Well I knew they were trying to build Hall High School and Horace Mann about the same time and that they were trying to occupy those about the same time. S:Okay so this is Horace Mann and ***[reading to herself out of yearbook] G:Okay so you must have gotten in there that year. S:Yes. We got in there during that time it seems but I don't remember. So you might***if Maud said then it's right. G:Alright. We can trust Maud Woods. S:Yes. G:Well she's great. Well I know since you weren't an actual classroom teacher your answers are going to be different than some of the teachers but that's fine because you give me a feel for what was going on in the building and what the

5 Summerville

atmosphere was like. So I wonder if***now we're talking about the year after Little Rock Central had the "". That year finished. The next year the Arkansas Legislature in August voted a lot of power to Governor [Orval] Faubus and in September Governor Faubus closed all four Little Rock High G:Schools: Horace Mann, Little Rock Central, Little Rock Hall, and Little Rock Technical. And so what I want to ask about that year, [19]58-59, is for you to describe your activities on a typical school day during the Lost Year. Now is that the year you think you were at Dunbar one semester and at Mann the second? Or do you recall? S:Part of that year, yes. Part of that year I was at Mann, a half year, and the other part I was at Dunbar. I think it was***I might have been there that entire year. It's so hard to remember which year because I was there before and after. But at some time during that year I know full time***maybe that was in that entire year. Oh it was because I was being***it was because I was there full time. Because I had to be paid at that time for one school, you know, for my participation in one school. When I was hired I was hired to go to Horace Mann after it opened. I was really a teacher for Horace Mann, school nurse for Horace Mann. But since we were Dunbar, Horace Mann hadn't moved over to Horace Mann at

6 Summerville

that time because the building wasn't completed. So then I continued working with Dunbar until they could get a nurse and then I went on over to Horace Mann and that must have been during the Lost School Year. So in that year***I hope I'm right***I spent***did Maud remember? G:Well I'll just call her and ask her what she remembers because, you know, every time I interview a person I get at G:least two or three more questions to ask somebody. S:Okay, that's great. But during that school year I remember now I would go in the mornings and I would work on records. The doctors, dentists and all would come over and they would go over my records with me to make sure that we had for the year prior to that, before the Lost Year, everything correct. And I would file them. After I would do that during the morning then the interviews***we would have faculty meetings also during that time. So much of my time was taken because there was meetings for different things and we were all to be there so that we would all be familiar with what was going on during that year and I had many opportunities to go with the regular nurse from the health center to different schools and observe her and assist her in working with the children at the schools that were not closed during that time. G:Right because the elementary and junior high schools were all open.

7 Summerville

S:That's true. That's the time that I was committed also to going over to the different elementary schools in the area and talk with the children, little brief talks. They would come to the auditorium and they would ask me questions about hygiene and things. It was so much fun and I remember very well one time we went to Gibbs. My kids were at Gibbs. So Gregory was among the kids who came to the auditorium that day and of course he was sitting there and listening to the S:questions. Many of these things he knew. We had been over them many times. He had to get up and brush his teeth in the morning before eating, before going to school. And when we were out of toothpaste he would use baking soda and I always told him I said "now this is really good. This is baking soda from the kitchen I use this for baking for some of my cooking blah, blah, blah. And when we're out of toothpaste we must brush our teeth anyway so we'll use baking soda." And at that time I asked the question I said "suppose you're out of regular toothpaste, Colgate or whatever you use." I said "what would you use?" The kids sat there and thought. Gregory raised his hand. So I said "okay Gregory not yet." I knew he knew. We were going to give the others an opportunity to answer. So they did and then Gregory said "mommy, mother let me tell you baking soda." [laughter] G:Yes it's always interesting to have your own children in your

8 Summerville

class or near your class or in your school. S:So that is really what I would do and the kids got an opportunity and hopefully, hopefully they learned some of the things that they could do when they were out of things that they normally used and there were many, many things. I had a list that I was to follow that we would talk about and I guess we'd do that for maybe thirty minutes and give all the kids an opportunity to ask questions about some things. And some of the questions they would ask was so cute. G:Pretty amazing. [laughter] S:Yes and it was amazing that they really thought of things like that and one little kid said something about "I have to help my mom before she goes to work when she's getting us ready for school to dress my little sister." The little girl and she said "so what I do, I have to bathe her first then I put her panties" and go on all the way "but I can't comb her hair yet." [laughter] G:Big responsibility. S:Yes, so it was really nice. G:Sounds like you were/ S:And that's what I would do during the run of the average day. There were faculty meetings being held and there were resource people coming over talking to the faculty and I wasn't there many times. And there were times I had to spend

9 Summerville

the entire day out on the field because I would have and I would eat in the schools or run home for lunch and didn't go back to Horace Mann on that day. G:I know Mr. or at least what everyone tells me; Mr. [Jerome] Muldrew, Mrs. Woods, Mrs. [Arceal] Terry, everyone. Dr. Christophe was respected and quite an authoritarian figure. Is that your perception or your remembrance of him? S:Absolutely. He was very much boss. Very and he was so aware of everything that was going on. He wanted to be and he was and I guess that's why he was such an excellent principal and S:had such an excellent***Horace Mann was the best school, in my thinking, in the state. It was a great school. G:Mrs. Johnson, the one I talked with last week said "we almost consider ourselves a little college." S:That's true. G:We just had a great love of one another almost as family and the Lost Year to her seemed to because she was a new teacher that it was a welcoming family to all the faculty members. S:Absolutely. G:Those were her memories. S:And the new teachers when they'd come in they would adjust so well, so easily because it was so easy to adjust there, I thought. And we were always so busy doing our thing. We were so interested in the students and making the students

10 Summerville

the best students and Horace Mann and we were and the students thought so much of Horace Mann. I honestly, we would fight for Horace Mann. [laughter] G:And before Horace Mann, Dunbar. They had that same feeling for Dunbar, didn't they? S:Absolutely, yes. Dunbar and at Dunbar it was a little different, however, yes Dunbar was the school and it was a good school because Dr. Christophe was there before he went to Horace Mann. Mr. [Edwin L.] Hawkins and***I've forgotten the principal's name who came in after Mr. Hawkins but he was at Dunbar after Dr. Christophe was purged and had to leave. Mr. S:Hawkins I believe***was it Mr. Hawkins? G:I believe so was the next principal. S:Yes, I think so. Either he stayed at Dunbar and the other principal came over or he went to Horace Mann. Anyway they were good principals also and they too carried on the spirit of Horace Mann and did everything possible that they could. I understand to keep Horace Mann and Dunbar the schools of Little Rock and that's the way we looked at it. We were the best. We had good teachers. We had good teaching going on. We had kids who wanted to learn and kids who did learn, absolutely. They would take the initiative and do things. We had kids and they were right, almost like college. We had

11 Summerville

kids who when they went to college I know it was kind of, you know, they had to really perk it up in some way because they were taught to carry on like college students and I can imagine they knew so much about the curriculum when they got there and they made good grades and many of them are doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs. [laughter] G:Mrs. Woods gave me a list of several of those I could interview too. Okay the second question and you've sort of talked about this but we'll ask another question. Did you participate in any teaching or school related activities, now this is after school. Do you remember after school hours being involved? And I'll tell you why I put that question in there. When the public schools were closed there were some G:white private schools that opened. Some called them segregationist schools. T.J. Raney most people considered a segregation school. Some of the churches opened school. They all seemed to be for white students and the only opportunities for black students seem to be go out in the county, leave Little Rock and go across the state and live with relatives, leave the state. And to what I can learn so far there were absolutely no schools opened for black students. So I wondered if any teachers did any tutoring after school hours or you know did anything to help students during that period when the doors to Horace Mann were closed.

12 Summerville

And with your being a nurse you probably wouldn't have done that but do you recall anybody doing that? S:Yes. I believe didn't Maud tell you she taught***didn't she teach math? G:She told me that she thought she helped some students. S:She helped students. Many of the teachers***Mrs. Terry I remember she was the typing or what do you call it commercial? G:Business, yes business classes or that's what I call them business classes, typewriting. S:I think they did. They didn't mention it? G:Well they said/ S:They didn't get paid for it now. They would just do that to help the kids. G:Mrs. Woods said that she***well I'll explain what***of course G:I have to go on what kind of documents I can find. Okay there's a dissertation that was written in the sixties and it was written by a man named [J.H.] Walthall and he was employed by the Little Rock School District and had been an administrator at some junior high. And when he wrote his dissertation he found, and I'm thinking he used Little Rock School records, that all but seven percent of the white students found schools. They either left the state or went out of the whatever. But fifty percent of the black students had no

13 Summerville

schooling. But Mrs. Woods thought***she did not think that was right. She did not think that was accurate at all because she said the next year when school opened she didn't find that many students behind. That they had been somewhere to school and so probably the records just weren't well done. S:Evidently because I don't remember the kids just being out on the street either. G:Wandering around. S:Absolutely and I would have observed that because I was right here. I lived right across the street over there in that big white house at 1604. That was our first home. We have owned that place for about thirty-eight years. So we were here and owned a home. G:Okay. Well nobody seems to know***they must have gotten schooling somewhere and I do have some newspaper articles that talk about the number who go out in Pulaski County Schools. G:But I just don't think they would have enough space for all of them and so that's what I'm trying to figure out, you know, if they got some private tutoring. Now some of them went on to college, a few of them did. S:That's true. I'm sure they went to the Y.M.C.A. and the Y.W.C.A. and some of the other and I'm sure they did and I can't remember offhand exactly maybe to the community center

14 Summerville

and got tutoring there. But they were very much involved in education. G:I just don't think there's a record of it and that's why I'm asking you a question about it. You know, if I can get enough of you to say maybe I can find some evidence about it. S:Yes, I think they were because those kids, she's right when they came back they were ready. G:And prepared. S:Yes and prepared. G:Okay did you substitute in any other schools and if yes please discuss. Well with your being a nurse I think that may have been their sending you to the elementary schools that you talked about. That would be your form of substituting. S:That's true and if you, you know, want to call that substitution. It was certainly you know carrying on during the time of the Lost School Year. G:Dr. Christophe invited a lot of people in and one of the things that Mrs. Johnson said as a new teacher, she said she G:was sent to substitute quite a bit. But that on days that she was there and they had the planned programs that they were enrichment activities to always keep the teachers ready and absorbing new information and she said they did a lot of modeling where they actually practiced what they would do in their classrooms.

15 Summerville

S:That's true. G:And so I wondered if you remember ever watching any of that? S:Yes, I do. Now that you've mentioned it. I had lost that too. G:Sure it's been thirty-six years. S:Surely I did. I attended almost many, many of the classes, you know, that the teachers were carrying us through or heading each department and I did. I learned a lot during that time too and was very, very well occupied. G:Do you remember taking any home ec classes? Mrs. Johnson and Mrs. Woods both said that they took something. They did some sewing with the Home Ec teacher. S:My major was Home Economics during undergraduate work and from that I went back to school and got a Master's in Biology, in science. The area of science, Biology. But no I didn't because I knew how to sew pretty good. [laughter] G:Well but your recollection is that Dr. Christophe didn't have out of school help but that you actually went around and the teachers who were there taught their subject matter to fellow G:teachers. S:Absolutely. I remember that. G:Okay. What recollections do you have regarding***well let me ask you this, this is the letter d. Did you participate in the brief run of television classes provided by the Little Rock School District? Now I know the answer to that is no

16 Summerville

because number one they were very brief and number two I know that they were all white teachers and most of them came from Central, from what I can find in the newspaper articles and there was even a magazine article I think in U.S. News about it. And they only lasted a few weeks. S:I did not. The answer is no for me. G:But I wondered if you remember seeing them at all. S:I don't. G:Or hearing about them. S:I had heard a little bit about them but I didn't see them. G:There's a photograph, it may be U.S. News magazine, and I have so many documents that I can't carry them all around with me. But there's a photograph and it shows a white family looking at the television screen and then shows a black family looking at the television screen and it's saying, you know, it's reaching all audiences. But they didn't last but a few weeks so they couldn't have had too much influence. What recollections do you have regarding interaction with students and/or parents who asked for guidance in new schooling choices G:after the four high schools were closed? Do you recall hearing from any mothers and fathers who might ask you, what shall I do with my son, what shall I do with my daughter since the public school is closed for high school?

17 Summerville

S:No, not, no I didn't. I had a few of the students who were aids working with me in the health department, health room who would often come over and they would ask me about nursing and how***many of them were interested in nursing that's why they worked with me. And during their vacant periods rather than go to study hall they would come in and work in the health room. So they would come in and ask for counseling on that. The parents would go to the teachers such as English and math. G:Specific teachers, you think or maybe even Dr. Christophe maybe. S:Yes that's true and their counselors too. G:Denied your position in the regular classroom as an educator, role model, and mentor describe any frustrations you felt. Do you remember being frustrated that schools were closed or do you remember***What are your remembrances about your feelings? S:I was very much frustrated in the beginning and all during the school year because I could see the kids, the students, moving out so much and I thought it was such a waste, the entire thing reason and all was such a waste. We lost good educators. Dr. Christophe was one of the best. [Virgil] Blossom was one of the best. I thought he was great. He was S:really great and I thought it was just a waste to Little Rock. I thought it was just something Little Rock didn't need.

18 Summerville

G:Right. Well it took me forever to find this. But I have found that there is only one other state in the whole that had similar circumstances during the same year and that was in Virginia. But in Virginia the Governor was granted the power to close a school if a black student applied and so what happened was in Virginia, the same year that Little Rock schools were closed by our Governor, Virginia under Governor Almond closed only those schools where a black student applied. Which meant that only white schools were closed. So Virginia had schools in Norfolk, Virginia in St. Charles County. I have these all written somewhere. Anyway they had many more students denied schooling than Little Rock did. Little Rock had 3,700 and there were many more in Virginia. But number one they were all white students and the other thing was they got their's opened at semester whereas in Little Rock they stayed a whole academic year. S:And those kids in Virginia their parents were probably very much able to put them in some type of learning situation during the time that school was closed. Did that/ G:Yes. A lot of private tutoring things opened up. I haven't been able to find that much about Norfolk but I have some newspaper and some magazine articles about it. Were there any special accommodations made by the school district in the G:schooling of particular students such as football players, band

19 Summerville

members, etc.? Now the reason I ask this question is when the school board closed the schools, at the direction of the Governor, the next day a lot of people were sending letters to the editor and complaining to [End Side A, Tape 1] [Begin Side B, Tape 1] the press that the football programs were going to be canceled and for this reason Governor Faubus came back out and made a statement that the school board had made a mistake by shutting down football and that he wanted to see football go forward and so the school board sent him a telegram and said what is it that you want us to have and we'll have it. And then according to Virgil Blossom's book that he wrote he said and his quote is "we had nothing for the children that year but football." And so I know they had it at Central and I know they had it at Hall and Mr. Muldrew thinks he remembers it at Horace Mann. Do you recall? S:I really don't. But it seems to me that they did because yes I believe they did. G:Even though they didn't have classes. S:Even though we didn't go to school, they couldn't learn, but they could go out there and participate in/ G:Do you remember who the coach was? S:[Fred D.] Swinton. G:Swinton, okay and is he deceased? S:Yes, yes.

20 Summerville

G:He's deceased so I can't talk to him. S:No, but [Oliver] Elders, he could tell you. Leon Adams could tell you because I believe his band would have played. I believe they did have it and I thought that was terrible. But the kids needed something to do in the evening. But to make that more important than academics. Wasn't that terrible? G:No it's very typical. [laughter] S:It is. That's true, unfortunately. G:Okay now this is about your interaction with other teachers. Did teachers participate in special activities with one another during the school days and after school hours and we've already talked a little about how a lot of these questions will repeat. We've talked a little bit about how you would have activities with other teachers. Do you remember having activities with other teachers after school hours? S:No because I had to come home. I had two little kids home from school and I had to be home. So I didn't. G:Your social group at that time was child rearing. S:That's true, absolutely. G:If you substituted in other schools describe those experiences and now we already talked about how you did that. This is the question. How did teachers in those schools respond to

21 Summerville

your presence? Do you remember if say if you went to Gibbs Elementary, do you remember if the teachers in that school G:welcomed you? S:Very receptive. Very receptive. They welcomed me. They were happy to have me there and they would ask for me to come when I couldn't go. G:So you were a great resource for them. S:Yes, I think so. G:That's good. Alright, were you aware, this is c, were you aware of the attitudes of fellow teachers in your school regarding issues of race, desegregation, and school closure? Did you know if most of the faculty had the same feeling toward say integration of Central the year before or were you aware of other people's feelings? S:I think we all felt about the same. G:And tell me what that was. S:Well we felt that the school should have been opened, you know, and the kids should have been there participating in our activities as well as the other school activities in the schools. And we all felt that and we would mention that. We would talk about what a waste and how terrible it was. We needed another Governor. G:Yes, I certainly understand that remark. [laughter] Was there a general consensus among the faculty that it was a good

22 Summerville

thing that the "Little Rock Nine" had gone to Central the year before or were there people who had reservations about that? S:Yes, well there were many people who had reservations. Of S:course but for the most part I think we were happy that they had an opportunity. We were sorry about the way they were treated and you know what they had to go through in order to attend school there. We were happy for them. We were sorry for them too. But so far as integrating that school, the pride other than Horace Mann, we were the pride. But yet they you know Central was a very old school. It has been here for years and blacks never had the opportunity to attend there and I think it should have been integrated. I think we were late, it took too long and I think the others thought that too. G:And you do recall teachers sharing your views? I mean that would be something that you might talk if you got to eat lunch together. S:Yes, I did. We just hated what the kids had to undergo in order to attend there and the fact that one or two, you know, dropped out because of the pressures. But I can imagine many of those kids were under doctors care during that time, psychologically as well as every other way, physically, you know, and you name it because of the pressures. It was hard.

23 Summerville

We know that and for the parents too. G:You know I've read book and your heart just goes out to those parents to let your teenage child go, you know, where you're so unwelcome by some people. Did you by any chance see the Oprah show yesterday? S:No, I missed it yesterday. G:But I want to get a tape of it. But they had seven of the "Little Rock Nine" on. S:Beautiful. Really, no I missed that. G:Right. Yeah they had Terrence Roberts, and Ernest Green, and a lot of them. S:What time is that? G:I think three o'clock yesterday. I hope they'll rerun it. They had little pieces of it on the seven o'clock news last night***I mean on channel seven news last night. S:Okay, I missed that too. G:Well if I get a tape I'll share it with you. S:Okay, very good. I appreciate it. G:Okay. Letter d, describe the morale among teachers within your own school during the Lost Year. Do you think that the morale stayed up or do you think that people were*** S:I think it stayed up. Yes, I think so. G:And why do you think that was? S:Because we were just looking forward to having everything

24 Summerville

right***I think we stayed busy and we looked forward. We tried to think of the better things, you know, the best and do what we could to prepare for those kids who when school started again. I think so. We had, you know, naturally we had those moments where we felt that***Well I think the morale pretty much was up. G:I get the sense just from the people I've talked to that Dr. G:Christophe had a lot to do with that. That he believed that you should stay busy and get ready and be hopeful. S:He was a true educator, yes, in every sense of the word. G:Letter e, was there evidence for you personally or for any of your teaching colleagues that the health of teachers was affected by the stress and uncertainty of your employment? Now let me tell you why I put that question in there. I have found two diaries. One is Mrs. [Elizabeth] Huckaby's which I have now read all of. But there was one more diary and it was by an assistant librarian at Central and she was an older woman at the time that she was an assistant librarian and she was a segregationist. There is no question about that. But she did write down during the Lost Year she tried to remember what she was doing the year before and then during the Lost Year she went ahead and wrote about her day. And in that she wrote almost every day, "I'm so worried about my job. I'm so worried that they won't pay us. I don't know what to do. I

25 Summerville

don't know whether to look for a job somewhere else." And she seemed to be really, really, concerned about future employment and she was a single woman that apparently had very little family, maybe a sister. And almost everyday in her diary she would write about how worried she was about future. "What should I do next year? What if we don't get paid next year?" And so I just wondered if there was a sense of that*** S:I'm sure, yes. Of course I was going to say that that would S:be about the only thing that I would know, the possibility of not having a job the next year. Not getting a check. During the summer that the way the checks were prorated, the money was prorated for the summer, I think that the year that the school did open I think we were all upset during the first year that we would not have a job because we all needed jobs. So, certainly that would be a worry. G:Okay. But you don't remember any specific incidence of somebody's health being damaged or anybody saying*** S:I don't. G:Okay. That I couldn't sleep last night for worrying about. S:I don't. G:Okay. When the Private School Corporation was first formed and solicited teachers from the public schools, what was your personal attitude? Now of course all of the private schools

26 Summerville

that opened, to my knowledge, were white schools and even though some of them were within churches. Do you remember reading about those or knowing about the private schools or having an opinion about them? S:I remember hearing about them and I well I the only thing that I was concerned about is that, you know, we didn't have them. We wished we could have had them and I thought we should have had them so that our kids would have been meaningfully occupied. G:Was St. Bartholomew down here? Was that an elementary school? S:That was an elementary school at that time I think. G:I think Mrs. Woods told me that her son went there but I don't remember what age he was. I got the idea he was a young child at that time. S:Okay let's see, that was---then he was. That was a nursery. They had a nursery there too or a kindergarten school. So her son might have been***If he was in school then he would have been in the elementary school I suppose because they had a nursery on the side or in the back somewhere in a little building. G:But your recollection of St. Bartholomew as a Catholic school, they didn't open up for black high school students, to your recollection. S:I don't know.

27 Summerville

G:Now all the teachers were served with restraining orders and for a while, at least the white teachers and I'm thinking it's the black teachers too, you were forbidden to actually go on the school grounds for just a little while. It was several weeks there. Do you remember anything about that? S:I don't. G:Okay. Do you remember having a Federal Marshal come to your door at night and serve you with a restraining order that said/ S:No! G:Okay. Well some teachers were served with restraining orders. S:Is that true? No! G:You don't recall that? S:No. G:Well good! S:I didn't. They didn't come. They didn't find me. G:They didn't come to you door?! S:No. G:Do you know personally anyone who worked in the private schools? Do you know any white teachers that work in private schools? I have not found one single name. S:No, no. G:It's amazing that there could be that many and I can't find a single person who did.

28 Summerville

S:I don't. G:Okay. Alright so you don't know that. Alright so now we're to attitudes. What recollection do you have regarding community reaction to your position as a teacher without students? Do you remember anyone saying anything to you? S:Yes they would! [laughter] They would. Many times they would say "well I can't see what you all are doing over there. There are no students." And things like that. G:Would you think that would be members of the black community that would say that? S:Well, members of both. Because I would go shopping, you know, sometimes and people would be talking and they just thought it S:was "you all are getting paid for playing or doing nothing and just having a good time" or some of those kind of remarks. G:Miss Hobby who works down at the Little Rock School District office told me that, I think she was a junior high teacher and I said something about "gosh they must have been so worried" and she said "oh, worried. We were all jealous because we thought they didn't work and we thought we were working hard." If you received either threats and intimidation or instances of praise during the Lost Year please describe specific events. Do you remember getting phone calls or letters or any kind of maybe response from

29 Summerville

maybe a student in the past who wrote you or praised you or someone who had a hang up phone call or do you remember anything like that? S:No. After this was over? G:This whole time period, anytime. S:Oh yes, I had gotten lot's of praises. Nothing else. G:But during that particular year do you remember? Like did anybody***The reason/ S:No, no, no. I didn't get that. I didn't get those obscene phone calls./ G:School was supposed to start in September and schools were closed. All that year you all went to work everyday. Alright the school board changed several times and it was in May that there was the purge. And on May fifth the three members of the school board, they purged forty-four either teachers or G:personnel of some kind. And then there was kind of a ground swell, or this is my perception, in the community to come to the rescue of those teachers and to demand that school be opened and to get rid of those school board members and so between May 5th and May 25th there were people getting petitions. But there were also rallies and there was a rally---for the white teachers. "An enormous public rally was held on May 19th at Robinson Auditorium with

30 Summerville

approximately 350 teachers attending." Of course that was white teachers. "The teachers were seated on the stage facing the two thousand people in attendance to hear the remarks of the many speakers supporting teachers and the recall effort. The same evening the five black purged teachers and principals were honored at Dunbar Community Center in a rally attended by seventy-five teachers and five hundred others." Now that is from the Arkansas Gazette. S:I didn't attend. I don't*** G:You don't remember anything about that. Okay it said "After two hours of oratory those in attendance were encouraged to vote in the recall election. On stage was an enlarged replica ballot with instructions to mark the ballot like this." And this was in a news article on May 20th of 1959. Don't remember anything about it? S:I didn't attend that. G:Okay, that's fine. I'm just curious who was there. G:[laughter] Alright so there was some attempt at support by the community. But you don't remember. S:I don't remember that. G:Okay. If you were one of the forty-four purged teachers explain why you believe you were singled out for firing. Well you were not one of the forty-four purged and in the black community there were only administrators and Mr. [Booker T.]

31 Summerville

Shelton who were purged. S:That's true. G:And the belief was that Mr. Shelton had been purged because he had refused to sign***there were two different pieces of legislation that the legislature had come up with that same time that they gave the Governor the right to close the schools. One was Act 10 where you had to list your memberships and one was Act 115 which specifically prohibited a member of the N.A.A.C.P. from working for the state. And that's the one that Mr. Shelton refused to recognize and eventually filed suit against and won. S:That's true. G:But do you remember they purged Dr. Christophe and they purged some other administrators? Do you remember your recollections about that? S:I remember Dr. Christophe and Mr. Shelton's ordeal and Blossom. And those are the ones that I can remember at this point. G:Okay. If you were a purged teacher what was your reaction? Okay because you weren't a purged teacher. S:I was not. G:Okay. Letter e, were you personally familiar with the work of or the names of the members of the following organizations: have you ever heard of the Women's Emergency Committee? S:Yes, but I don't know anything about it.

32 Summerville

G:Okay, it was primarily white women in the community who wanted to open the schools and one of the ladies who was really active was Mrs. Terry who lived in the big Terry mansion downtown. There was a woman named Vivion Brewer who was real active. Supposedly during the Lost Year they tried to have contact with teachers. But I don't know if they actually had contact with black teachers. Do you recall any contact that they made with you? S:I don't, no. G:Did you know of anybody who was in the Mothers League of Central High? S:No. G:The Mothers League of Central High was a white segregationist group. Okay what about the Capital Citizens Council? S:No. G:Okay if I read you some names would you respond? S:If I know them. G:Okay I'll read you some. Capital Citizens Council was a G:white segregationist group and*** S:You are so well organized. G:Well I'm not as well organized as I need to be because I'm not flipping to the right place. "One of the first groups formed in Little Rock opposing all integration was the Capital Citizens Council made up of many from the working class

33 Summerville

neighborhoods. The most active single group within its ranks were ministers and followers of the Missionary Baptist Faith. Robert E. Brown publicity director for a radio/television station was president of a local group in 1957. Followed by Wesley Pruden, pastor of Broadmoor Baptist Church in 1958 and then Dr. Malcolm G. Taylor, who was an osteopath." And I believe he worked for the public health like with the coroner or with the public health. Dr. Malcolm G. Taylor and they were all members of the White Citizens Council. Well they were called the Capital Citizens Council but they linked themselves up with White Citizens Councils around the south. S:I can't. G:Well being a health nurse I thought maybe you might have heard of Malcolm G. Taylor. S:Taylor that name strikes me. Yes I have. But it's I can't remember too much about it. I remember that name, yes. G:I remember from what I've read that Dr. Gordon Oates, who later was a public health official of some kind and his wife's name was Willie Oates. S:Yes. G:They were friends. That Dr. Taylor and Dr. Oates had some***They served in some capacity of public health and Mrs. Oates was a school board member for the Raney school and Dr. Taylor was actually president of the Citizens Council.

34 Summerville

S:That's why I remember the names. G:That's why they sound familiar. S:The Raney school. Yes, okay. G:Alright let me just read some of these. The State Rights' Council broke off from the Capital Citizens Council and that was a white group so you probably don't remember them. S:No I don't. G:Do you remember STOP? S:I don't. Tell me about STOP. G:Okay STOP was Stop This Outrageous Purge and it was white men and their goal was to open the schools and to get rid of the school board members who had voted the purge. And I'll read you a couple of names. S:Yes, I remember STOP. G:Okay and it stood for Stop This Outrageous Purge and what they did was they worked really hard with the members of the Women's Emergency Committee. So the Women's Emergency Committee had been working all year and then STOP comes along and, as men***Of course men do this. This is my personal prejudice. As men always do, they come along and use the G:groundwork that these women have done and get credit for it. S:Yes, that makes sense doesn't it. G:Let me ask you about the N.A.A.C.P.. I added it on your list here. Did you know Daisy Bates?

35 Summerville

S:Yes. G:Did you know Mr. Bates? S:Yes I did. G:Did you subscribe to the Arkansas State Press? S:Yes I did. Yes I did and still***well up to last year. G:I know that they had it and then they were put out of business for a while and then I know it was resurrected. S:Yes and they are still publishing that paper, I believe. Just every now and then we pick up one from someplace. But we don't subscribe to it. G:Tell me your recollections of Mrs. Bates and Mr. Bates. S:They were civic minded people. Very much involved with our community, with the students and our schools. They were great people. They were well educated people, I feel. And Mr. Bates they owned this little publishing company. G:Arkansas State Press. S:Yes and they would do a lot of travelling. She would anyway and he worked very hard on the paper. They were very much involved. She was more than he, I think. And the Crisis, 1957 and that's about it. She worked so hard with that and she kept up with those kids. Even now I can imagine. G:They came to her home every morning to go to Central according to her book. S:That's true. [End Side B, Tape 1] [Begin Side A, Tape 2]

36 Summerville

Everything she said in that book that's correct. G:Do you remember that Wiley A. Branton of Pine Bluff was the lawyer for the N.A.A.C.P. who filed most of the briefs for that particular time period? S:I do. G:I know she's quite elderly but I would love to talk with her. I wonder if she would talk with me. S:Have you tried? I bet she would. She is a great lady. G:I thought I would try to talk to as many teachers as I could and then ask. S:Why don't you call her. G:Maybe I thought if I used all of your names she might talk with me. S:Why don't you call her? Yes, she's a great lady. I believe she's Delta. I believe she's a member of my sorority. G:What sorority is that? S:Delta Sigma Beta. G:They have a chapter of that at U.C.A. S:That's what I understand. G:You'll have to come up. S:Absolutely. I am active financially. As a matter of fact I'm a Golden. But I don't participate in the activities like I S:used to. I go to some. We're about to have a luncheon. The Founder's Day Luncheon soon. Are you having that at U.C.A.?

37 Summerville

G:I don't know. I just know that I've seen the letters. I get all the letters mixed up but I'm sure that I know those letters because I think I've written letters of recommendation for some students sometimes. I think I have. S:Great! Well I know Mrs. Bates well and she is quite a lady. G:Do you think she's ninety? S:She's close. If she's not, she's close. But she's still being wheeled around and just as tickled as she can be at this point. You would love her. G:I know I would. At any time during the Crisis Year or the Lost Year were you interviewed by the Arkansas State Police or the F.B.I.? S:No. G:Well some teachers were. What was your reaction to Act 10? And Act 10 was you were required to sign affidavits listing organizations in which teachers held memberships or to which they made regular contributions. Do you remember? S:I vaguely remember it. But I didn't list anybody. G:Okay. I'll tell you what, Mr. Shelton of course refused to sign it or this is what I've read. Mrs. Woods told me that what they did was they didn't actually pay dues to the N.A.A.C.P. but there were a lot of donations. S:Yes, yes. G:[laughter] And that that's the way that worked.

38 Summerville

S:That's true. She's right. G:And that way you didn't have to really lie. S:Right. That's true. G:Now Act 115 forbade members of the N.A.A.C.P. from teaching or working for the state. Do you remember anything about that? S:I do. I remember a little about it but I didn't have to sign anything. G:Were you a member of the, well, no. You would have been a member of the Arkansas Teachers' Association. But as a nurse would you have that? S:I was a member, yes. That's right. G:Do you remember Mr. [Edwin] Hawkins and Dr. E.H. Hunter, I think? S:Yes. Dr. Hunter was the principal at Jones High in North Little Rock. Mr. Hawkins, he's the name that I couldn't remember. He was principal at Dunbar for a while after Dr. Christophe left and Mr. Harper was assistant. Mr. Hawkins was the one who left and went to Horace Mann after the purge. After Dr. Christophe had to leave. Mr. Hawkins, of course, he was my boss for a while. G:You have to remember him. [laughter] Alright the Arkansas Legislative Council***Now these are the Arkansas Legislative Council was twenty members of either the house or the senate of the State Legislature and they would work even when the

39 Summerville

G:legislature wasn't in session and they of course had voted the legislation to Faubus to allow him to close the schools. so they were pretty unfriendly toward education. When the A.E.A. always meets in November in Little Rock and I understand that the A.T.A. always met in Hot Springs. And when the A.E.A. met in Little Rock in November of the Lost Year, when the schools were closed, they made this public statement. It was a pretty, to me it didn't seem like a very violent statement at all. It said that they as members of the educational community they were concerned that schools were closed and that public education was being denied to people and when this happened the members of the Arkansas Legislative Council jumped all over them. And they made statements to the press and they made threats against them and so I wondered if you remembered anything at all about the Arkansas Legislative Council or any of the time in the press that they made threats against***What they had done was they had just voted a three cent, a one penny increase on the sales tax and that money was dedicated to education and when they did that a couple of members of the Arkansas Legislative Council came out with this public statement that said "you educators just don't appreciate what we've done. We went to bat for you and got you this money and you shouldn't make statements like that." And so they said that they were going

40 Summerville

to have a polling of all the teachers to see if the members agreed with the statement G:that the big organization had made. And they made those statements in early November and then I followed it through the press and by December they were saying things like "well we've talked to teachers and we know they don't agree with the whole officers of the group and so we're not going to do a poll." S:I don't remember. G:Okay. It's alright if you don't remember. My perception is that if there were threats they seemed to be more against white teachers then they were against black teachers. S:They must have been because I don't remember too much about that. G:Alright, we're almost finished. What awareness did you have regarding Little Rock's place in relationship to the rest of the American South and the entire nation on the following topic: on race. Did you think before the Crisis, before Faubus made a Crisis, did you think that Little Rock was a moderate community or a very conservative community or a very liberal community? S:A little bit of all three. G:You could see a little bit of it everywhere. S:Yes, I can now.

41 Summerville

G:The reason I'm asking that is because Mr. Blossom had made a lot of presentations to different organizations, had talked about how they were going to follow the law, how they had a G:plan and they would implement it. It was all written out on paper. They would begin with integration in a very gradual way and then when Faubus called out the National Guard many people were surprised and when I asked this question of Mr. Muldrew he said "no Little Rock was moderate. We had already gotten equal pay for black teachers." That that had been an issue that had come up prior to that and for that reason he thought that in the way of education people were more moderate here. That they weren't really racist. He didn't perceive them as racist prior. S:I can understand what he's saying, yes. I think moderate a little. I don't think they were racist. I don't think that but moderate and liberal. I don't think Little Rock was all moderate, all liberal, but a little bit of each. G:When we had the "Little Rock Nine" at Central, that whole year in the newspapers of course you could see people who would come out against the integration and be against race mixing and be against all kinds of things. Do you think that that tone got harsher during the Lost Year when schools were closed? Do you think there was more harsh talk about race the second year than the first year?

42 Summerville

S:The second year it was harsh. I'm just wondering on a scale would it be more or less. But it was I guess less, a little less. I think people had grown to realize that okay it's here, it's done and we can't be as aggressive about it not S:having been done since it is done and I think it was a little, there was a difference I believe. G:In the two years. S:Yes, in the two years. G:Were you a teacher in Little Rock during the Crisis Year? And that would be and you were. And you were at Mann and did you remain a teacher in Little Rock the year after the Lost Year? S:Yes. G:And you continued at Mann. S:Yes. G:Now when Dr. Christophe was purged that summer they hired back all the teachers who had been purged. But he didn't stay. Can you tell me about that? S:What did he do? G:Yes. I know he left and now Mrs. Woods said that he went to Maryland but Mrs. Terry said it was Delaware. S:It was Wilmington, Delaware, yes. G:Okay. S:That's where we eventually ended up. He went to Wilmington, Delaware. His wife and he. His son at that time, I believe,

43 Summerville

was in Chicago. Well I know he was working someplace. But anyway they went and he took over Howard High School in Wilmington, Delaware became principal and he stayed there until he retired and he died about two years ago. G:Alright. Mrs. Woods marked on my cards and several of them G:went with Dr. Christophe. They left and they left the state. And I can go back through the cards and find out who they were but I'm wondering/ S:I know of about three or four of them went with Dr. Christophe. G:And they just picked up their families? S:They just picked up and left. I don't think***Now two men that I remember who went with Dr. Christophe. Two men in music, the musicians at our school. The choir and the music department. Mr. Ransom and Mr. King, John King, I believe. They didn't have families. They were single and let's see, who else went? G:Okay I'm looking real quick through my cards to see if I can tell you. Okay Matt Graham who was the Art teacher. S:Oh yeah, Matt was the art teacher. Matt went and he worked in art. He just retired a few years ago. He was there when we were there too. They were all there. G:Were they all able to get a job in the same school with Dr. Christophe? S:Yes. Who else do you have on there?

44 Summerville

G:Okay I'm going down that list. Just a second. John King, which you mentioned, who was a foreign language teacher. S:And Ransom. G:Okay, I haven't gotten there. Now Helen Sales went to California though. S:Yeah, Helen didn't go to***She went to California. That's*** G:Do you remember if she left right away? S:No, Helen, I believe she was here for a while after I left. G:Afterwards. Alright let me keep going. John Smith who was the science teacher. S:John Smith, where did he go to Chicago? G:It says John M. Smith, science man, Maryland, followed Dr. Christophe. S:Okay he went to Maryland. That's true. G:So was it a new school that Dr. Christophe went to? S:No. This was a very old school and for a while he had trouble there because they didn't like the fact that he was coming in a stranger coming in from some other state. I don't know whether they knew, everybody knew about the purging probably did. But they didn't like the fact that he was coming in or those others. Bringing those others, all of them to their state, their school, taking over. He was principal but they had to accept it. G:So they made him an administrator up there.

45 Summerville

S:Yes. G:Oh, I see. S:He was the boss. He was the not boss but the principal of Howard High School. He went for that reason and Mrs. Christophe, I believe she taught in Maryland for a while in the public school system and went to attend classes, attended S:school and became an English teacher in Dover, Delaware of college kids. So they did well. G:Now how long was it before you and your husband left Little Rock? S:We left in 1968. They needed counselors, men counselors and my husband was one of the best in Arkansas. That's true. I'm not bragging and he was given that title. And "Doc" had tried so hard***We called him "Doc"***to get us to come to Delaware and we just refused to go. We had a home here and kids and we were both gainfully employed, we considered ourselves, and Mike said no. I said no. We said no for many years. Two or three years, maybe more. So "Doc" came here one summer. The summer of [19]68 and he asked and he asked and he asked. So Mike said "Betty do you want to try it?" I went and talked with my parents about it in Conway and my mother***I never shall forget and my father said this "go". They said "Mike if you don't go, you'll never know." G:You'll regret not trying.

46 Summerville

S:That's true and you will always regret not having known what would have happened and she said "besides if something should go wrong here Mike might say well you see Betty if you had said yes, if you had agreed then maybe we would have done much better in Delaware. We would have had the opportunity to find out." And I'll never forget that. So I came back and I told Mike I said "okay we'll go." G:My mom and dad said I could go. [laughter] S:So we told him. Mike finally told him "well okay Betty said we'll go "Doc", we'll come." And he was so happy. He had arranged everything. We had an apartment when we got there and mostly all furnished and our whole family just picked up and left. But we left***I had to make sure one more time we were still planning what we were going to do and carry. Then I had to make sure we got people in our home because we didn't want anything bad to happen to it. And we were lucky because there were new teachers coming in to teach at Dunbar. Miss Searcy, I'll never forget the name and let's see what were the others. Three of them. G:And they lived in your home. S:They lived in our home and we were so happy and they took real good care of it. We just had***adjusting was hard for me. I hated it. I hated everything. G:I bet the weather.

47 Summerville

S:Ooh the weather. I hated everything about it. G:Now did you work as a nurse there? S:No. When I went there I went there as a science teacher. I had gone back to school and gotten my Master's in science and I taught biology and for a while I taught***They had some kind of program going whereas they took these kids who were not special education kids as such but they were, what do you call them low learners? Slow learners and I had to***They had a S:department that the government***somebody had , you know, given money to put those kids in another area and teach them science, math, and english. G:I see. That was a challenge. S:Yes it was. So Dr. Christophe made me chairman of that department. G:Oh you lucky woman. [laughter] S:And I don't know. I had the hardest time working on that. Anyway I stayed there, did that for about two years and I had my fill of it. However they gave us a good rating. We seem to have done a good job. Pretty good for those kids. But after that I taught science for the whole year. G:Okay so I want to make sure I have this straight. You taught at Little Rock. You stayed at Mann for a few years. Now where was the first place you left to go after Mann?

48 Summerville

S:To Grambling, Louisiana. G:And when was that? S:That was in 1961. G:And how long were you all at Grambling. S:We were at Grambling***my husband was there for four years. I went the last two years. I was there for two years. He was there for four years. G:So that was the early sixties? S:That was [19]62-63, I believe. I taught one year. I attended school in Grambling. G:Is that where you got your master's? S:No, I got my master's before having gone there but I couldn't teach there unless I took the history. G:Oh, Louisiana history. S:Yes, Louisiana history. So I went on back to school and since I had to go that year I just took other courses. Some in food, some in home economics and you know, I took history and something else, health maybe. One or two others. I had my Master's in Science at that time. G:And had you gotten that***Where had you earned your master's? S:I earned my master's at Women's College in North Carolina, Greensboro. And I was on the science program. Do you remember the science programs? They pay you to go and take these courses and seminars and the like. I went to Alcorn in

49 Summerville

Mississippi. In Missouri***what was the name of the***in Oxford, Missouri. What was the name of that college? G:In Oxford, Mississippi? S:No, Missouri. G:Okay, I don't know Oxford, Missouri. S:I went there and Pennsylvania. I'm sorry wasn't it Pennsylvania? G:I don't know. S:Yeah, Pennsylvania. Because I commuted from Delaware to there and Jackson, Mississippi, Jackson College. So I went to those three universities. Alcorn was a college at that time and S:attended for four years I believe, three or four years and received my master's. But I was Home Economics major with a Science minor here and at Philander Smith College anyway. So it didn't take much. Anyway, after that was done before we went to Grambling. And then we went to Grambling. When we went to Grambling we***After I had spent a year going to school my husband was Dean of Men there. Then the next year I got a job in Haynesville, Louisiana, which was a few miles from Grambling. I had to commute to there. G:You've just been everywhere. S:I loved it. But the experiences were good for me. I really am happy about all of our experiences.

50 Summerville

G:Make us a whole person don't they? S:It does. It really does. Then we after that had come back here. We went in [19]68 we went to Delaware and stayed there until my parents died. I retired in [19]84. My mother died in [19]83. I had to make a lot of trips. I guess we almost made the airport, the air travel, rich. Because I had to spend so much time. But I couldn't leave my job completely see because we were going to retire in a year or two and they told me in the beginning okay I could. I could come and spend so much time with my parents but I'd have to be back for any of the exams that were due and prepare them because I was the teacher at that time. And I had to do that. I would come and spend three months with my mother and my father. My mother S:was sick and go back and spend two weeks, come back and return, you know, and spend maybe two or three more months, two more months and go back and that whole year we spent that way. Mother died very hard when she finally died in [19]83. My father***this was during the last of [19]82 all of [19]83 up until June of [19]83. My father died the next year. So after I had gone back and gotten my father situated pretty good, my husband had enough time in to come and spend a whole semester, almost a whole year here, because he could leave. He was the assistant principal at that time and he came. He

51 Summerville

just took leave because he had all that time up and he came and took care of my dad. But my dad died. I would also come, you know, every two or three months and relieve my husband and help my dad. So we were here for most of those two years, two or three years. And in [19]84, June of [19]84, my father was in the hospital on his last leg we called it and my***we were packing. We were just rushing because we had a home there. Two homes we had bought while we were there and luckily we had a son there who was counselor in the system then. And during that time getting ready to come here, trying to make it we knew that papa wouldn't live very long but hoping that he would live until I had come. He kept asking my sister said he kept asking her "is Betty Jane going to make it? When will Betty Jane get here?" And we were just trying so hard and she called just before we left, we were all loaded, and said papa S:had passed away. G:I'm sorry you missed it. S:Oh I am so sorry. She said he just kept asking, you know, and I kept thinking maybe it was something he wanted to say to me that he hadn't had a chance to say. But we had talked and talked and talked at length. G:You never say enough though. S:That's true. But we retired and we came on home and had his

52 Summerville

funeral and all and we have been here since. G:And you evicted the teachers that were in your house. And said we need it back. S:By that time I think Searcy was, I believe they had changed. She was about to go back home. She was from Atlanta, no. Tennessee. Chattanooga, I believe. She was going back home because she had a job there in public school system and she wanted to go home because her grandmother was ill or something was wrong and she had kids there, one or two kids. They needed her and she no longer would have to make those trips home on weekends. Some weekends but she could go home and stay. It just turned out good for all of us. G:Just a good balance, right. During the Lost Year the school board membership and the position of superintendent changed three times. Describe your personal feelings regarding each of these three episodes. Okay and let me show you what I did was I made a little chart here to help us. Now I know I have G:this. I just had my hand on it. Here it is. Okay these are the school board members who were in [19]56-57. That's William Cooper, Louise McClean, Lucy Dixon, Dr. Dale Alford, Harold Engstrom, and R.A. Lile. Now they were, of course, the ones who were working on the plan to integrate Central. The next year during the Crisis Year we had Dale Alford, who was the president of the school board and then still Dr.

53 Summerville

Cooper, Harold Engstrom again, R.A. Lile again, and then we had Henry Rath, who eventually resigned, and a man named Wayne Upton. Now this was the board that was in power, in position all during the Crisis Year through the summer and into the Lost Year. And when the Lost Year began and the Federal Government was telling the school board that they had to go ahead and integrate and the State Government had closed all the schools, then everybody on this board resigned except this man. And this man instead of resigning decided to run against Brooks Hays in an election as a write-in candidate and of course he won. That was a close election. Do you have any remembrance of any of these people or any personal stories about them, about Dale Alford? S:There is no personal stories but I remember him very well. I remember vaguely some of the others. Not all of them but some of the others. G:Some of their names? S:Certainly, let's see, yes, I remember Engstrom and Lamb. Ted S:Lamb. I remember them. G:Now these are the ones you are probably going to remember more. Alright now these guys are all gone because Dale Alford has run for office and won and these men have all resigned and then we have in December of 1958 we have an election and it's really close and these three men are considered the moderates

54 Summerville

and they are elected. And these three men I don't have photographs of are [Ed] McKinley, [Ben] Rowland, and [Bob] Laster. Laster had been, he was of course a segregationist, but he had been a Little Rock traffic judge. And Ben Rowland had been a member of the Capital Citizens Council and he was also an attorney. S:Those aren't a segregationist. G:These three were for sure and these three were considered more moderates. Now when those men resigned they bought up Virgil Blossom's contract and so the next thing that they do is they put J.O. Powell in as superintendent and he had been Hall High principal, I believe. Do you know him at all? S:I knew of him. I didn't know him. I remember I had seen him on t.v. a lot. But I didn't know him know him though. G:Then in May at a school board meeting these three men were what voting on teacher contracts and everything they voted for these men voted against. And everything these men voted for these men voted against and so they met all day long and they even broadcast it on the radio and these three men said "we're G:walking out, we're leaving the meeting and there is no longer a quorum. There is not enough people here to vote." And when they left these three men said "yes we're still a quorum because there were six people here when we started today."

55 Summerville

And these are the three men who purged the teachers and their names were McKinley, Rowland, and Laster. S:Yes, yes, I remember. G:Now these three men who purged the teachers that was on May 5th and between May 5th and May 20th there were people going around with petitions. "We want to get rid of these three men." And then there were people who were segregationists who wanted to get rid of these three men and so on May 25th the election was very close but these three men were voted out of office. The more moderates stayed on the board. [Everett] Tucker, [Russell] Matson, and Lamb stayed on the board and then the county board replaced the segregationists with somebody named J.H. Cotrell, B. Frank Mackey, and W.C. McDonald. And so it was these three men plus the three moderates who were in power when the schools opened. Now the schools opened early. They opened in August instead of September and one of the reasons was to get the jump on and also the excuse was to make up lost time. S:That's what I knew about, to make up lost time. G:Tell me how you felt when schools opened. S:Oh I was so happy! I was happy. I had mixed emotions but I S:was very happy because I needed to go to work because we wouldn't have gotten that check that next year I understand and we wouldn't have had jobs. Maybe some might have.

56 Summerville

G:Probably not. S:That's right. But a lot of us wouldn't have. I wouldn't have had because they probably wouldn't have needed me as a school nurse. But anyway when I found that we were going to work I was ready, able, and happy. And all of us, we were on the phone calling each other, the teachers at Mann, many of us. And we were all very happy and very much ready to go back. G:You had been prepared to be ready. S:Yes we were. G:Trying to give consideration to the total impact of the historical events of the Lost Year respond to each of the following. This is the last question. Describe any change in your own attitude you feel occurred. You remained in public schools for a while and well for the rest of your life in some form of education or another. So as far as your professional life it didn't discourage you from teaching. S:No! Absolutely not. I was just hoping I wouldn't run into that anywhere else that I went to work and we wouldn't have all these problems and I'd be off for a whole year and had to be afraid for my job. That's the only thing that kind of crossed my mind. That it wouldn't happen anywhere else. G:And on your personal life, do you think it affected the way G:that you dealt with students in the classroom later or with your own family? Do you think that it changed your life in any

57 Summerville

way? S:I think it taught me. I think I learned so much from that in that every moment was precious. Teaching was more important than I had ever thought. I knew it was important but not as important. And I thought about my kids. You know you think about your kids, you think about everybody else's kids whom you taught. I just had more respect for education and for teaching those kids and I just couldn't spend enough time helping. It really helped me to be a better teacher. G:See I'll probably cry. I do this a lot. I was just thinking how emotional that would be when you went back to work. It would really be an exciting time. S:And you can't do enough and every day at the end of the day you're checking your lesson plan, you know, your plan the teachers would check them out to see if you had done everything possible that you could do on that particular day. Every day of that year I made sure that everything that I did was very, very important for children. G:Because they had missed out the year before. Are there any other things that you recall that you'd like to tell me about that I haven't asked you? I'm probably not very good at writing questions. S:You're very good. You are very good. You are very well S:organized. You have so much information here. You really made

58 Summerville

me think and come back to many of the things I thought I had forgotten. G:Well it's been thirty-six years. S:I never realized that they existed, many of them, until you brought them back and it's a hurting thing. It's still a hurting thing. But you are so well organized. You have done it so well Mrs. Gordy and I just appreciate having been chosen. G:Oh I'm thrilled that you'll talk with me. I'm just delighted. S:Thank You. [End of interview]

59 Summerville

INDEX FOR INTERVIEW OF BETTY SUMMERVILLE A.E.A. [Arkansas Education Association] 38 A.T.A. [Arkansas Teachers' Association] 38 Act 10 30, 36 Act 115 30, 37 Adams, Leon 20 Alcorn, Mississippi 47 Alford, Dr. Dale 51, 52 Almond, Governor 18 American History 39 American South 39 Arkansas Gazette 29 Arkansas Legislature 5 Arkansas State Press 1-3, 5, 29, 34, 36-38, 44, 34

Bates, Daisy 22, 34, 36 Bates, L.C. 34 Bearcat Annual 4 Biology 15, 45 black student 18 black students 12, 13 black teachers 26, 31, 39, 40 Blossom, Virgil 17, 19, 30, 39, 52 Branton, Wiley P. 35 Brewer, Vivion 31 Broadmoor Baptist Church 32 Brown, Robert E. 32

California 42, 43, Capital Citizens Council 31-33, 52 Central High School 5, 6, 16, 19, 21, 22, 24, 31, 35, 40, 51 Chattanooga, Tennessee 50 Chicago, Illinois 41, 43 Christophe, Dr. LeRoy 3, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17, 24, 30, 37, 41-43, 46 Christophe, Mrs. 43 community reaction 27 contract 52 contracts 52 Conway, Arkansas 1, 2, 44 Cooper, William 51 Cotrell, J.H. 53 Crisis Year 36, 41, 51

60 Summerville

Delaware 41, 44, 47, 48, 41 Delta Sigma Beta 35 desegregation 21 Dixon, Lucy 51 Doc 44, 45 Dover, Delaware 44 Dunbar Junior High 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 37, 45

Elders, Oliver 20 Engstrom, Harold 51

F.B.I. [Federal Bureau of Investigation] 36 faculty meetings 7, 9 Faubus, Governor Orval 5, 19, 38-40, 53 Federal Government 51 Federal Marshal 26 football games 4, 19 Fort Smith, AR 2 Founder's Day Luncheon 36

Gatewood, Betty 1 Gazette 29 Gibbs Elementary School 7, 20 Government 46, 51 Graham, Matt 42 Grambling, Louisiana 46, 48 Green, Ernest 23 Greensboro, North Carolina 47 guidance counselor 16

Hall High School 5, 6, 17, 19, 52 Harper, Mr. 37 Hawkins, Edwin 10, 11, 37 Haynesville, Louisiana 48 Hays, Brooks 51 Hobby, Selma 28 Horace Mann High School 2-6, 9-12, 19, 22, 37, 2 Hot Springs, Arkansas 38 Howard High School 41, 43 Huckaby, Elizabeth 24 Hunter, Dr. E.H. 37 integrate 51 integrated 22 integrating 22 integration 21, 32, 40 intimidation 28

61 Summerville

Jackson College 47 Jackson, Mississippi 47 Johnson, Willie Lee 10, 14, 15 Jones High School 37

King, John 42

Lamb, Ted 51-53 Laster, Bob 52, 53 legislation 30, 38 liberal 39, 40 Lile, R.A. "Brick" 51 Little Rock 1, 3-6, 11-13, 16, 18, 21, 23, 28, 32, 37-41, 44, 46, 52, 1 Little Rock Central 5 Little Rock Hall 6 Little Rock Nine 5, 21, 23, 40, 5, 40 Little Rock School District 13, 16, 28 Little Rock Technical 6 Little Rock, Arkansas 1 Lost Year 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 23, 24, 28, 31, 36, 38, 40, 41, 50, 51, 54 Louisiana 46-48, 47

Mackey, B. Frank 53 Maryland 41, 43 Matson, Russell 53 McClean, Louise 51 McDonald, W.C. 53 McKinley, Ed 52, 53 Menifee, Arkansas 3 Missionary Baptist Faith 32 Mississippi 47 Missouri 47 moderate 39, 40 moderates 52, 53 morale 23 Mothers League 31 Muldrew, Jerome 9, 19, 40

N.A.A.C.P. [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] 30, 34-37 National Guard 40 Norfolk, Virginia 18 North Carolina 47 North Little Rock 37

62 Summerville

Oates, Dr. Gordon 32, 33 Oates, Willie 32 Oprah 22 Oxford, Missouri 47

Pennsylvania 47 petitions 29, 53 Philander Smith College 1, 48 Pine Bluff, Arkansas 35 Powell, J.O. 52 private school 25 private schools 12, 25, 27 Pruden, Wesley 32 Pulaski County Schools 13 purge 28, 33, 37 race 21, 39, 40 rallies 29 rally 29 Ransom, Mr. 42 Rath, Henry 51 recall election 29 resigned 51, 52 restraining order 26 restraining orders 26 Roberts, Terrence 23 Robinson Auditorium 29 Rowland, Ben 52, 53

Sales, Helen 38, 42, 43 school board 19, 28, 29, 33, 50-52 school closure 21 Searcy, Miss 45, 50 segregation 12 segregationists 53 Shelton, Booker T. 30, 36 Smith, John 43 St. Bartholomew 25, 26, 25 St. Charles County, Virginia 18 State Government 51 State Legislature 37 State Rights' Council 33 STOP [Stop This Outrageous Purge] 33 substituted 20 substituting 14 Summerville, Betty Gatewood 1, 57 born 1 career 3, 46

63 Summerville

children 2, 7, 8 education 1, 15, 45, 47, 48 home 13 husband 1, 2, 44, 48, 49 maiden name 1 parents 44, 48, 49 television show 22 Summerville, Gregory 7 support 30 Swinton, Fred D. 19

T.J. Raney High School 12 Taylor, Dr. Malcolm G. 32, 33 television classes 16 Tennessee 50 Terry, Arceal 9, 12, 41 Terry, Mrs. David D. 31 threats 28, 38, 39 Tucker, Everett 53

U.C.A. [University of Central Arkansas] 35, 36, 35 United States 18 Upton, Wayne 51 U.S. News 16

Virginia 18

Walthall, J.H. 13 White Citizens' Council 32 white students 12, 13, 18 Wilmington, Delaware 41 Winfrey, Oprah 22 Women's Emergency Committee 31, 33 Woods, Maud 5, 6, 9, 11-13, 15, 26, 36, 41 Wynne, Arkansas 2

Y.M.C.A. [Young Men's Christian Association] 14 Y.W.C.A. [Young Women's Christian Association] 14

64