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1 the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project Information Series ROBERT DON LEVINE Interviewed by: Pat Nieburg Initial interview date: December 10, 1988 Copyright 1998 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Early assignment VOA, Geneva, Paris Vietnam% Deputy Mission Spokesman 1965 Nature of ,ork -irth of ./SPAO Five O0clock Follies Ade1uate info to satisfy press 2ack of personal contact ,ith combat operations Mission loses credibility ,ith /S, Foreign Press Visiting VIPs in Saigon Satisfactions and frustrations of job Varying attitudes Relationship bet,een /SIA and military 2ack of interest in actual country 2ack of kno,ledge on field,ork Direct communication e1uipment Short duty tours Rapid personnel turnovers 2iving conditions Family relationships Saigon scandals Retrospective on Vietnam Dept. of State tour 1966 East Asia and Pacific -ureau Phnom Penh, Cambodia 1971 INTERVIEW 1 Early Assignment9 VOA, Geneva, Paris Q: This is Pat Nieburg. It is December 10th and I'm at the house of Robert Don Levine. Bob was the Deputy Spokesman for Jess Powell in Saigon during one of the critical periods of the -ietnam .ar. .hat we shall discuss today are Bob's e/periences during that period. 2EVINE9 Okay, I joined /SIA in September of 1955 as a GS11 ne,s,riter for the Voice of America. I spent five years ,riting and editing ne,s for the Voice of America, in English of course, four and a half of those five years on ,hat they call the overnight shift. In 1960 I joined the Foreign Service and ,ent first to Geneva as an FSR-4. I spent about three years in Geneva first as the number t,o man of a t,o-man /SIS operation in ,hat ,as then called the /.S. Mission to the European Office of the /nited Nations. That's as far as I got. Not too long after I got there I became the number one man in the operation. My boss ,as transferred, having been there for t,o tours of duty. My next tour of duty after Geneva ,as in Paris as Information Officer. I ,as there for only nine months 1964-1965. And I got caught in the build up in Vietnam and ,as sent to Saigon directly from Geneva as ,hat ,ound up being actually the Deputy Mission Spokesman. 1965 Assignment to Vietnam as Deputy Mission Spokesman Nature of Work Q: Bob, let me interrupt for just one minute. 2EVINE9 Go ahead. Q: .ould you define a little bit what this job entailed1 2EVINE9 With the build up of American forces in Vietnam in 1965, I arrived there in May of 1965, there ,as increasing interest on the part of the American media in ,hat ,as going on in Vietnam and in follo,ing ,hat ,as happening to our troops, ,hat they ,ere doing. And that re1uired more ,ork on behalf of the /nited States Mission dealing ,ith these reporters. -irth of ./SPAO Also at about the same time that I arrived there, it may have been a little later, the normal /.S. Information Service operation in Saigon ,as transformed into ,hat ,as called the .oint /.S. Public Affairs Office or ./SPAO in Saigon ,hich included both the military and the civilians. 2 -y the time I left, the daily ne,s briefings ,hich ,ere given at the /.S. mission hosted several hundred ne,spaper, television, ,ire service and freelance reporters. So the job ,as primarily one of helping my boss, Harold Aaplan, ,ho ,as the mission spokesman, to get ready for this briefing at five O0clock, called the five O0clock follies, and find out ,hat ,as going on, ,hat activities the mission ,as involved in and ,hat kind of 1uestions he might have to respond to at the daily briefing. The during the day, of course, ,e had to handle other 1ueries that came along from ne,smen and also make some arrangements for them to visit different parts of South Vietnam ,here our troops ,ere operating or ,here American civilians including /SIA civilians ,ere functioning also. Of course, State Department people ,ere in the some of the larger cities in Vietnam. The five O0clock briefing ,as a joint military and civilian briefing. I might say that the military handled their part of the briefing and the civilians handled the civilian part of the briefing but basically ,e controlled ,hat happened there. The So-Called Five O0C2OCA Follies9 Difficulty Mission Spokesman Had in Getting Ade1uate Info to Satisfy Press Q: Robert, let me interrupt with one 2uestion. .ould you describe for me a little bit how does one get ready for that kind of five 34clock follies that you had to face everyday1 In other words, where did you get the information1 .here did you get the basic data that you had that you needed to prepare to answer the 2uestions of the media1 2EVINE9 Well, first of all ,e had cables to read, outgoing cables from Saigon, incoming cables from Washington. We also talked to mission officers, State Department people, ./SPAO, ./SPAO officers, military officers, to get them to explain certain things that ,ere coming up in the ne,s. We, of course, had the ,ireless file that ,e looked at, had some idea from that. I don't recall ho, 1uickly ,e got ne,spapers there. I don't think it ,as all that fast. -ut ,e did get reports on ,hat the American press and also ho, the foreign press ,as playing the situation in Vietnam. And from these reports, press, media reports, ,e kne, ,hat issues ,ere hot. We also kne, based on our conversations ,ith correspondents ,ho asked us 1uestions and ,anted to kno, ,hat ,as going on, ,hat our attitudes ,as to,ards, I don't kno,, ,hether it ,as a cease-fire or ,hat have you. Q: Robert, did you or Harold Kaplan, for e/ample, sit in on mission staff meetings which were either just embassy missions or joint missions with the military. .ere you in at the policymaking discussions to get a readout of what was going on1 2EVINE9 I never ,as. Harold Aaplan ,as to a greater extent than me but not all that much. Primarily it ,as -arry Borthian ,ho ,as then the Director of ./SPAO ,ho sat in on those meetings. This made things a little bit difficult for us admittedly. Although ,e did find out things through other people at a lo,er level ,ho ,ere informed, either people in the military or in the civilian part of the operation. I'm talking about the ,hole entire mission, not just ./SPAO. 3 Q: Did Barry share the information that he had with you1 In other words, did Barry 7orthian actually brief you and8or Kaplan and tell you1 2EVINE9 To a certain extent, not as much as ,e ,ould have liked. I think that he retained for himself a considerable amount of this information to make himself a better source and a single source for ne,smen. That ,as one of the problems. I al,ays thought that Aaplan did a marvelous job given the fact that he ,asn't as privy to all the information that the mission had as Borthian ,as. I might also say that part of our ,ork as I started to say earlier ,as arranging for trips, correspondents that ,anted to go into the field. They ,ere usually flo,n around on MACV, Military Assistance Command Vietnam Aircraft, and ,ere able to get into the field 1uite a bit. Some of them ,ere ,ounded. I don't kno,. Maybe some of them ,ere even killed. I don't recall ,hether-- you may recall that, ,hether any correspondents ,ere killed there. I don't think anybody ,as in my time. -ut I kno, some of them ,ere involved in some pretty hot operations. Q: 9ou may recall Dickie Shapiro, Larry Burrows were casualties in -ietnam. 2EVINE9 That's right. I remember reading about -urro,s. I don't think that--that didn't happen ,hen I ,as there. -ut he ,as al,ays--he ,as a photographer for 2ife. Q: That's correct. 2EVINE9 And I can remember seeing some of his photos in print, particularly one very dicey operation ,hich he miraculously got out of alive ,ith helicopters being shot do,n one after the other. 2evine's Work Did Not Involve Much Personal Contact ,ith Combat Operations Q: .hat was the emphasis1 As you remember during those years we had some very famous engagements in '65, '66 when you were there. There were such things as the battle of Ia Drang which was a ma0or battle in the highlands. There was the 2uestion of securing the Delta. And then there was the 2uestion of pacification. Did you get into all these substantive areas1 2EVINE9 I did not. I made a fe, trips. I read about the Ia Drang Valley battle and some of the other battles. -ut I did not get close to anything substantive insofar as that ,as concerned. I did make one rather interesting trip to the Mekong Delta ,ith some .apanese correspondents early on. This ,as in about, I ,ould say, .uly of 1965. And ,ith t,o of our famous Vietnam hands, Ev -umgardner and Frank Scotton ,ho ,ere then involved in a motivational training exercise ,hich they did ,ith the popular forces and regional forces trying to help the Vietnamese explain to them, the South Vietnamese government, 4 ,hat they had at stake in the fight that ,as going on. A short part of that trip ,as by plane. And I don't really remember the names of the to,ns ,e ,ent to.
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