The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project Information Series
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The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project Information Series BARRY ZORTHIAN Interviewed by: Cliff Groce Initial interview date: October 20, 1988 Copyright 1998 A ST TABLE OF CONTENTS Events leading to entrance into OA Congressional funding cuts split some OA functions off to CBS & NBC 1947 Congress changes mind: funds (and Zorthian, go bac. to OA OA organi/ational (or disorgani/ational, patterns in early days of fully resumed operations 0ong battle to get various language des.s under central ne1s control OA moves to 2ashington. 1954 Accompanying confusion and separation of related functions 5ove up from Chief of Ne1sroom though policy to become Program 5anager 1955 6ps and do1ns of policy guidance: Cold 2ar 1a7es and 1anes The 5cCarthy Era Congressional Budgetary cuts force OA broadcast reductions OA gro1th in program diversification. Origin of OA correspondents abroad Need for and origins of OA charter Henry 0oomis arrival as OA Director Brought strong direction to voice for first time Produced 1ith some strains 1ith Zorthian 1 8etrospective: 8ecollections of events, personalities and programs origins during 15-year career at OA Hungarian revolution programming Strains in dealing 1ith division chiefs Changing 5unich 8adio Center to 5unich Program Center OA personalities to remember No regrets on OA career Zorthian earns la1 degree 1hile 1or.ing at oice Origins of Some of OA Special Programs Press Conference 6SA The Brea.fast Sho1 Special English 5usic 6SA The Forum Sho1 American Theater of the Air Process of getting language services under control 2or.ing out scheduling for 1orld 1ide English Enters Foreign Service as Deputy PAO/India 1961 Transfer to Saigon 1964 Troubled mission in Saigon: Housecleaning of 5ission Element Head Designated =C/ar of 5edia 8elations“ 1964 Stateside complaints 8e 6SIA Officer dealing 1ith 6.S. Press Zorthian seconded to Department of State Beginnings of the =Five O?cloc. Follies“ Begins 1ee.ly bac.grounders separate from =Five O?cloc. Follies“ First officially sanctioned 6.S. combat involvement 1965 First American ground troops Confusion of =Propaganda“ output responsibility leads to creation of J6SPAO J6SPAO concept overta.en by events: 8apid gro1th of military involvement splits authority among J6SPAO, AID, and 5AC 6SIA becomes disillusioned 1ith J6SPAO role Problems encountered in operating under J6SPAO concept 2 6SIA has never addressed problem of ho1 it 1ould handle another counter-insurgency program if it ever arose TET: The ietnam 2atershed. J6SPAO declines 196A Zorthian receives offer from =Time“. 0eaves 6SIA Zorthian?s status as 5arine Corps 8eserve Colonel helped him in relations 1ith military in ietnam Basis of Bro1ing 6SIA disillusionment 1ith J6SPAO concept Personal memories and evaluations of J6SPAO/ ietnam INTERVIEW Q: How did you come to join the (oice of America, Barry* Events 0eading to Entrance into OA ZO8THIAN: 0et me just give you a general summary of my time in the Agency so that 1hen 1e move along you can fit things in as needed. In 2orld 2ar T1o I 1as in the 6.S. 5arine Corps, and at the end of the 1ar I 1as stationed do1n in Cuantico after service in the Pacific. I left Cuantico, 1as demobili/ed, out of uniform, in the spring-summer of D46, and 1ent bac. to my hometo1n of Ne1 Haven, Connecticut, 1here I soon joined the Ne1 Haven 8egister and 1as 1or.ing as a journalist at that time. The .ey point in reference to 6SIA being that I had graduated from Eale, and in the course of my year in Ne1 Haven, at a Eale coc.tail party, I ran into 0o1ell Clucas, 1ho had been managing editor of the Eale Daily Ne1s 1hen I 1as on it. 0o1ell told me he 1as a very senior editor, official, at the oice of America. IDm not sure IDd ever heard of the oice of America beforeF if I had, it had been in the most general terms. He 1as then chief of 1hat no1 you 1ould call Tal.s and Commentary. I told him I 1as an7ious to get do1n to Ne1 Eor., 1hich I 1as, and he suggested I come do1n and 1or. for the oice of America. After the appropriate amount of correspondence, I joined the oice of America in the 1inter of 1947 as a BS-9 script 1riter in the commentary section. I used to do a sho1 called Commentators Digest, 1hich used e7cerpts from radio commentaries at the time, and 6N 8evie1, 1hich 1as a 1ee.ly revie1 of 6N activities. And then I did some actual commentaries. That 1as then all in the Argonaut Building in Ne1 Eor., on 2est 57th Street. The ne1sroom 1as in the same building then. People li.e Hal Berman, John Gno7, Art Gauffman, 5ort Blat/er, 8enee Hill, Hal Courlander, Bill Stric.er and various 3 others 1ere all in the ne1sroom at that time -- holdovers from the 1artime period. I 1as the young sHuirt 1ho came into the commentary section, 1or.ed for a fello1 named Doug Blaufarb, 1ho eventually joined CIA and served at length and 1ith distinction in Southeast Asia, in 0aos and so on. I ran into him later. And our overall boss 1as 0o1ell Clucas. 0o1ell later came to fame as PAO in 5unich. He 1as the target of the Cohn- Schine investigation. He 1as the one 1ho tal.ed about Ijun.eteering gumshoes.I That phrase came from 0o1ell Clucas. Eventually he 1as forced out, and joined St. 8egis Paper Company in San Francisco as vice president for public affairs. IDve run into him periodically over the years. 1947: Congressional Funding Cuts Split Some OA Functions Off to CBS and NBC But I 1as in that Tal.s and Commentary section at that time. In the fall of 1947, Congress, for a 1hole series of reasons, essentially annoyance at the oice of America, pressures from the outside -- I2hy is the government continuing in the Dpropaganda businessDJI -- shifted funding for many of the oiceDs broadcasts from the oice proper to CBS and NBC. As a junior employee I 1as terminated, I 1as in a 8IF notice, but 1as pic.ed up by CBS for its e7panding ne1s operation for oice of America programming. I 1or.ed at CBS, in that blue studio building on 2est 53rd Street, for about a year, 1ith a group of people, some of 1hom later joined the oice, along 1ith me. 2e 1ere there for about a year, then 1ent bac.. Dan Harvey 1as chief of ne1s, a fello1 named 0arry Haas 1as his supervisor. Jerry Thiese 1or.ed 1ith me there. Dan became 6N bureau chief of the OA ne1sroom subseHuently. 2e 1or.ed there for a year, just doing straight ne1s programs. A lot of our broadcasts 1ent to 0atin America, 1hich had been CBSD particular turf, but some of it also 1ent over to Europe. It 1asnDt a 5ic.ey 5ouse operation, thatDs not fair, but it 1as a very lo1-budget basic operation. Q: It was not labeled (OA* ZO8THIAN: It 1as not labeled OA. It 1as CBSD short-1ave ne1s service. Q: ,as (OA just out of the business at that time* ZO8THIAN: 2ell, OA had some operations, and essentially they 1ere doing the commentaries. They 1ere providing to these net1or.s, CBS and NBC, official commentary. CBS, incidentally, in the building right across, 1as just starting television. I remember Jerry Theise, and I thought it 1ould be great if 1e got into T . Congress Changes 5ind: Funds (and Zorthian, Bo Bac. to OA After that year at CBS, and similarly at NBC, there 1as a reversal of thin.ing in 2ashington. The net1or.s 1anted to give up OAF it had been a pain in the nec. to them because they had come under criticism. They pretty much 1anted to get out of it. So 4 the funding 1ent bac. to the oice proper, and they reacHuired the personnel, including people li.e me. So 1e rejoined the oice, or at least I did, as did various others. OA Organi/ational (or Disorgani/ational, Patterns in Early Days of Fully 8esumed Operations I then, personally, joined the English section of the oice of America, 1hich 1as absolutely embryonic. There 1as no ne1s operation. 2e started then, and I technically 1as the first member of an English section ne1s operation, Huite separate from the central ne1s operation. By then the Central Ne1s Operation had moved from the Argonaut Building .itty-corner on 57th Street to the Beneral 5otors Building. 2e had an English service ne1s operation in the Argonaut Building. Directors then 1ere Bene Gern and a fello1 named Sidney Sul.in. Bene Gern finally stayed in Ne1 Eor. and became an announcerF Sidney Sul.in became editor of Changing Times. Their supervisor 1as Al Puhan. Over at the ne1sroom, Hal Berman became chief. 2e 1ent through a series of policy advisers. The Policy office 1as over there. The .ey adviser in those days, in the early fifties, 1as Ed Gret/mann, a State Department officer assigned there. Q: ,hy was there a separate newsroom set up for the English operation* ZO8THIAN: The central ne1sroom 1as not in the habit of putting together ne1s sho1s. They put out a ne1s file. 0anguage services put together their o1n ne1s sho1s, and English 1as just restarting so it needed a ne1s sho1. The first members of that English ne1s service to join me 1ere Jerry Theise and later Bob Boldman, then 5ar. 0e1is joined us, Jerry Ba.st joined. T1eeny 8yan joined. As 1e 1ent along Alis DeSola joined. And 1e had announcers li.e Paul Par.s and Fit/ -- 1hatever his name 1as.