Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 1965

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions [21 SEPTEMBER] Questions 519

TUESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER, 1965 stone on to the footpath. When the four men reached a lighted area near the foot­ path, the manager spoke to them briefly Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, and the men continued on their way with­ Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at out further incident. The identity of the 11 a.m. men has not been established. No com­ QUESTIONS plaint was received at Southport Police Station from any citizen alleging that he SPECIAL DIET FOR SICK RESIDENTS OF had been caused terror or distress through EVENTIDE HOMES.-Mr. Thackeray, pursuant the above described incident, and a check to notice, asked The Minister for Health,- at the Local Ambulance centre failed to Do inmates of Eventide Homes who have locate any record of any person having been examined by the Government Medical received treatment on the night in question Officer and where instructions have been for an injury consistent with one received issued by him that these inmates should be in the type of disturbance alleged to have on a special diet on account of their illness, taken place. When the pieces of timber and receive the food recommended by the the stone were thrown to the footpath by Government Medical Officer? If not, why the three men other persons were in the not? vicinity, but no person was observed to be endangered or distressed in any way. The Answer:­ manager of the premises did not regard the "Yes." incident as being of sufficient importance to warrant the Police being notified." POLICE SUPERVISION AT SURFERS PARA­ (3) "See Answer to (2) ." DISE.-Mr. Thackeray, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- ( 4) "An incident such as that referred ( 1) What surveillance, if any, is used to in my Answer to Question 2 may occur by the Police with regard to teenagers in spontaneously at any place, and an isolated licensed premises at the Gold Coast? instance of that kind is not regarded as a sound basis for determining the adequacy (2) Was the vicinity of the Skyline Beer of Police supervision. At present there are Garden, Chevron Hotel, Surfers Paradise, 54 members of the Police Force stationed on September 14, 1965, at approximately in the City of Gold Coast and they have 10.30 p.m., a scene of a wild melee amongst the use of six motor cars as well as five teenagers who had apparently been drinking motor cycles. Having regard to Police at that hotel? requirements throughout the State, the (3) Were pieces of timber and bricks existing Police staff and facilities at the wielded and thrown indiscriminately to Gold Coast are considered adequate for the terror and distress of citizens who essential requirements in the area. A found themselves suddenly in the midst recruiting drive for more Police is at of the disturbance? present being carried out, and when the allocation of additional personnel is under ( 4) Is he satisfied, in the light of the consideration, due regard will be had for above, that there is adequate supervision the requirements of the Gold Coast." by the Police for the protection of the residents and tourists in this important centre on the Gold Coast? HoUSING COMMISSION LAND, THE STRAND, ToWNSVILLE.-Mr. Aikens, pursuant Answers:- to notice, asked The Minister for Works,- ( 1) "Patrols are made as considered Does the Housing Commission own an necessary and desirable having due regard area of land on The Strand, Townsville, to all Police requirements in the area and and, if so, what is the area of the land the availability of staff. Appropriate action and is it proposed to utilise this land for is taken when any offence by a teenager on the erection of Housing Commission flats, licensed premises is detected." houses or any other form of accommoda­ (2) "Inquiries have failed to reveal tion to meet the pressing needs of the information to support the suggestion that Townsville people? a wild melee had occurred amongst teen­ agers at the time and place mentioned. The Answer:- inquiries revealed that about the time "The Commission has five acres bounded mentioned four men, about thirty years of by The Strand and Mitchell, Burke and age, described as somewhat boisterous, Stuart Streets. While this land is admir­ talking loudly, and obviously having liquor ably situated for fiats the Commission also taken, approached the hotel in question and has another area in Bundock Street near entered a darkened area of the premises William Street on which the Townsville near a construction project involving the City Council has recently requested the use of timber and rocks. As the men were construction of flats. However, as 96 flats leaving the darkened area, the manager of have already been provided and as priority the premises saw them kick some pieces of is given to the larger family groups in timber and bricks. Two of the men each allotting State Rental accommodation I am threw on to the footpath a piece of wood inclined, at present, to favour the construc­ about two feet long, whilst a third threw a tion of houses at Townsville." 520 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

HOUSING COMMISSION HOUSES, GIRU.­ (2) During the same period was there a Mr. Coburn, pursuant to notice, asked The handling and inspection fee imposed on Minister for Works,- carcass lambs introduced to the Townsville Why have four houses approved by the Abattoir area from interstate and, if so, Queensland Housing Commission for erect­ what was the fee and how many lamb tion at Giru not been constructed? carcasses were submitted for inspection during the same period'? Answer:- "Although tenders were called on three Answers:- occasions an acceptable price was not (1) "4,045." received. The jobs remain on tender and (2) "No handling charge was imposed any contractor prepared to submit a reason­ by the Townsville District Abattoir Board. able price may do so." 8,300 lamb carcasses from interstate sources were submitted for inspection prior SITES FOR AMBULANCE STATIONS.­ to consumption within the Townsville District Abattoir area. An inspection fee (a) Mr. Hughes, pursuant to notice, asked under "The Slaughtering Acts, 1951 to The Minister for Lands,- 1958," then operating, of 1d. per head was Has any approach been made to his charged by my Department in respect to Department by anyone connected with the these carcasses." Queensland Ambulance Transport Brigade Parent Centre seeking co-operation with respect to the finding of sites on which TAKEOVER OFFER, AUSTRALIAN STOCK ambulance stations may be erected? BREEDERS' COMPANY LTD.-Mr. Murray, pur­ suant to notice, asked The Minister for Answer:- Justice,- "Other than the enqumes made by the (1 ) Is he a ware (a) of a takeover offer Honourable Member for Kurilpa during by Yuill Properties Pty. Ltd., a southern the month of August, there is no record of company associated with other companies any approach having been made to my with a high overseas financial content for Department regarding the availability of £597,000 cash for all the ordinary and sites for ambulance stations. As intimated preference stock in The Australian Stock to the Honourable Member at the time of Breeders' Company Ltd. and (b) that The his enquiry, my Department will be happy Australian Stock Breeders' Company Ltd. to render whatever assistance and advice it controls approximately 6,000 square miles can give the Queensland Ambulance Trans­ in six good properties in North Queensland port Brigade Parent Centre if and when running about 75,000 head of cattle? any approach is made." (2) In view of the very grave concern being expressed by the minority share­ holders of The Australian Stock Breeders' (b) Mr. Hughes, pursuant to notice, asked Company Ltd. over what appears to be a The Minister for Health,- ridiculously low offer by the Yuill interests, Has any approach been made to him or who are the majority shareholders, will he his Department by the chairman of or cause some investigation to be made of anyone connected with the Queensland the circumstances of the offer to ensure Ambulance Transport Brigade Parent that the minority shareholders are receiving Centre with regard to (a) sites suitable for adequate protection? the erection of ambulance stations and (b) requests for special Government funds or Answers:- loan money specifically for the purpose of (1) "(a) I am informed that documents building a new headquarters station? relating to a proposed takeover by Yuill Properties Pty. Ltd. of the whole of the Answer:- ordinary and preference stock of The "No record can be found of an approach Australian Stock Breeders' Company being made to my Department by the Limited, have been lodged at the Office of Chairman of the Parent Centre of the the Registrar of Companies. (b) I do not Queensland Ambulance Transport Brigade, query the details supplied by the Honour­ or any other person connected with that able Member as to both Yuill Properties Centre, either with regard to sites for Pty. Ltd. and The Australian Stock ambulance stations or for special Govern­ Breeders' Company Ltd." ment funds or loan money for the purpose (2) "Particular sections of "The Com­ of building a new headquarters station." panies Acts, 1961 to 1964," deal with take­ over schemes or offers and provide that certain statutory information relating to the LAMBS SLAUGHTERED AT TOWNSVILLE scheme or offer must be placed before the ABATTOIRS.-Mr. Sullivan, pursuant to notice, shareholders of the corporation to shares in asked The Minister for Primary Industries,­ which the scheme or offer relates and that ( 1) What was the number of lambs the offer will remain open for acceptance slaughtered at the Townsville Abattoirs by the shareholders of the corporation to during the 1964-1965 financial year? shares in which the offer relates for at least Questions [21 SEPTEMBER] Questions 521

one month from the date it is made. No announcement of a nine per centum shareholder is forced to dispose of his increase in dental charges? shares, this action being a matter for his own decision, unless the takeover offer has ( 4) Is he able to indicate whether been approved within four months after the increased costs in connection with dental making of the offer by the holders of not treatment merit the announced increase in less than nine-tenths in nominal value of charges? the shares in question. The takeover com­ pany, upon that approval, may acquire the Answer:- remaining shares on the same terms as they acquired the shares of the approving share­ ( 1 to 4) "The Means Test applicable to holders unless on the application of a persons seeking dental treatment at dental dissenting shareholder the Court thinks fit hospitals and country dental clinics con­ to order otherwise. Speaking generally, any ducted by hospitals boards, is based on the member of a company who complains that male basic wage, with allowances for a the affairs of the company are being con­ wife and dependent children. Such test is ducted in a manner oppressive to one or applied in all centres where there are more of the members (including himself) dentists in private practice, but in those may apply to the Court for relief. It thus areas where there are no dentists in private appears that the acceptance of a takeover practice, dental clinics provide dental ser­ offer is a matter for each individual share­ vices to all persons seeking treatment, holder to whom the offer is made and irrespective of income. The basis of eligi­ dissenting shareholders have certain statu­ bility is not inflexible, and special con­ tory courses of action open to them." sideration can be extended where circum­ stances warrant it. The present means test has been in operation since 1950. I have INVESTIGATION INTO AREA AND POWERS no specific knowledge as to whether OF BRISBANE CITY CoUNCIL.-Mr. Murray, increased costs in connection with· dental pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for treatment by private dentists would justify Local Government,- the announced increase in charges. So far As the Premier has refused to appoint a as the maintenance costs of dental hos­ Royal Commission to investigate Brisbane pitals and dental clinics are concerned, City Council's alleged attitudes to industrial there has been a steady increase in such and commercial development, will he take costs over the years." urgent steps to set up an adequate specialist committee representative of a wide cross-section of community interests, SURVEY OF GILBERT RIVER SANDS FOR to carefully consider all the avail­ WATER CoNTENT.-Mr. Davies, for Mr. able information and report on (a) Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The whether it is in the best interests of Minister for Local Government,- Queensland that, in view of trends of In view of the increase of the cotton population growth, Brisbane City Council should retain its present local authority area acreage on the Gilbert River, which has and its present powers under The City of necessitated the use of a mechanical cotton­ Brisbane Acts and (b) what alternatives picker, and the need for definite informa­ might be considered by this Parliament tion concerning the water storage in the should retention of the Greater Brisbane river sands, if this important crop is to concept be deemed inadvisable? expand, will he consider a survey of these river sands to ascertain their water content? Answer:- "I cannot agree with the Honourable Answer:- Gentleman's contention that because the population of Brisbane has increased, its "Due to many other commitments for powers should be reviewed. The Honour­ investigation of underground water sup­ able Member should be aware that the plies, the Irrigation Commission cannot City of Brisbane Town Planning Act allocate staff or funds to investigate sup­ contains provision for the protection of the plies of water available in the sands of the Private Right as far as possible." Gilbert River this year. In any case experience indicates that such supplies would only support minor irrigation devel­ MEANS TEST FOR TREATMENT AT opment. It is suggested that landholders DENTAL CLINICS.-Mr. Sherrington, pursuant interested in using this source of supply to notice, asked The Minister for Health,- seek individual advice from the Irrigation ( 1) What means test is applied to and Water Supply Commission. However, patients requiring dental treatment from during 1965-1966 the Geological Survey of State dental clinics? Queensland will commence geological map­ ping and collection of data on existing (2) How long has this formula been underground supplies. This information will operative? be used in determining whether more (3) With a view to making available detailed drilling and other investigations by greater free dental treatment has any t~e Irrigation and Water Supply Commis­ consideration been given to raising exemp­ siOn of these areas, including the river tion under this means test following the sands, will be undertaken." 522 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

SUBSIDIES UNDER KEITH HOLLANDS Answer:- SHIPPING COY. CONTRACT.-Mr. Davies, for "During the fiscal years 1960-1961, Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked 1961-1962, 1962-1963, 1963-1964, and The Treasurer.- 1964-1965, the subsidies paid to the Bris­ As subsidy is now being paid by the bane City Council for library services were Government to Keith Hollands,- as follows:-1960-1961, £17,700 7s. lld.; ( 1) What subsidy per ton is paid on 1961-1962, £19,478 lls. 9d.; 1962-1963, goods to (a) Croydon, (b) Normanton, £31,051 10s. 3d.; 1963-1964, £34,129- (c) Burketown and (d) Mornington Island? 18s. 10d.; 1964-1965, £34,096 8s. 6d. Total, £136,456 17s. 3d. For the informa­ (2) What is the total amount of subsidy tion of the Honourable Member, the total paid to Keith Hollands from the letting amount paid to this Council by way of of the contract to June 30, 1965? subsidies over a comparable period when ( 3) Is it possible that present subsidies Labor was in power, namely the five years may be increased? from 1952-1953 to 1956-1957, was ( 4) When will the present contract with £47,453 18s. 4d." Keith Hollands terminate? (5) Will public tenders be called at the DEVELOPMENT OF FITZROY ISLAND AS termination of the present contract? TOURIST RESORT.-Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,- Answers:- ( 1) Has the Committee compnsmg (1) "(a) In respect of goods consigned representatives from the Lands, Forestry, from Brisbane through Keith Hollands Harbours and Marine Departments and Shipping Co. Pty. Limited for ultimate the Tourist Bureau completed the survey delivery by the Company to towns and of Queensland islands to determine how centres situated-(i) within the Local many new locations may be developed as Authority Areas of the Shires of Carpen­ tourist resorts? taria and Croydon, a subsidy of £4 per ton; and (ii) within the Local Authority Area (2) Is the report available? of the Shire of Burke and to Mornington (3) Does it take into consideration a Island, a subsidy of £7 per ton; and (b) in proposition for developing Fitzroy Island, respect of goods consigned from Cairns for off Cairns, for the "roughing-it" type of delivery by the Company to towns and tourist and local campers, as a boaters' centres situated within the Local Authority and fishermen's base? Area of the Shire of Burke and to Mornington Island, a subsidy of £5 per ton. ( 4) If not, will he recommend this The following additional subsidies are pay­ alternative without adversely affecting the able on the undermentioned goods trans­ existing tourist facilities to allow camping ported by the Company from Brisbane and requirements to be established at Fitzroy Cairns to the Local Authority Areas of the Shires of Carpentaria and Burke and to Island of a standard to provide hygiene Mornington Island:-For 1 ton lots and and retain island camping facilities in view over of cement, flour in bags, potatoes and of the recently announced restriction of onions in bags, salt, sugar, barbed and campers on Green Island? fencing wire, and fencing standards, all on 20 cwt. basis, and of wire netting and flour Answers:- in drums on 40 c. ft. basis, ex Brisbane, ( 1) "The Committee of Departmental £1 10s. 6d. per ton; ex Cairns area, officers from the Lands, Forestry, Harbours £1 15s. per ton." and Marine Departments and the Tourist (2) "£456 3s. 9d. Since July 1, 1965, Bureau, has not yet completed its survey the sum of £1,419 19s. 10d. has been paid. of the Tourist Resort potential of the 750 A claim for a further £442 5s. 3d. is now islands off the Queensland coast. The being checked." survey has reached the stage of compiling basic information on all of the islands and ( 3 ) "I have no knowledge of any pro­ obtaining the views of local bodies on the posal to increase the present subsidies." potential of islands in their localities. The (4) "November 15, 1967." valuable information being obtained from these bodies is now being examined and (5) "This matter will be considered at inspection of the more promising islands the appropriate time." will take place during the next three months." GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES, BRISBANE CITY (2) "The Committee is expected to CouNCIL LIBRARIES.-Mr. Bromley, pursuant submit its report to the Government early to notice, asked The Minister for in 1966." iEducation,- ( 3) "Fitzroy Island figures prominently How much money has been granted to in the islands which the Committee will be Brisbane City Council for library services investigating in detail and it will consider during the years 1960-1961, 1961-1962, all types of resorts in assessing the island's 1962-1963, 1963-1964 and 1964-1965? tourist potential." Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 523

( 4) "See Answer to 3. I might add that Commonwealth. The sheep population of after the Committee's report has been approximately 24,000,000 represents approxi­ considered by the Government any applica­ mately 15 pe.r cent. of the total Australian tion for the provision of a resort of the sheep population. Income derived from indus­ nature mentioned by the Honourable tries associated with beef oattle, sheep, and Member will be considered on its merits by dairy cattle meant a gross value to Queensland my Department." in the year 1963-64 of £175,500,000. It follows that for a State which has such PAPERS a large livestock population it is necessary to The following papers were laid on the have an adequate system o.f registration of table:- brands and earmarks. Queensland has been Orders in Council under- most fortunate in that the system of registra­ tion of brands introduced as far back as 1872 The State Development and Public was well planned. Proof of this is evident Works Organisation Acts, 1938 to in the fact that some other Australian States, 1964. as well as overseas countries, have to some The Water Acts, 1926 to 1964. degree modelled rheir systems on Queensland's system. Legislation at present in force does FORM OF QUESTION not differ greatly in substance from the original Brands Act of 1872. Mr. AIIKENS (Townsville South) having given notice of a question- The original Act was framed to suppress cattle stealing and to protect the property Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member's of stock-owners. As a result of the increased question is entirely out of order. It is purely value of stock, particularly cattle, it is a facetious question. I want the hon. member essential that the legislation be such that it for Townsville South and all other hon. mem­ is difficuH for stock stealing to be practised. bers to understand that the printing of such Brands and earmarks have taken on added a question would be a waste of money, as importance with the implementation of well as a waste of the Minister's time if he disease control measures by officers of the were to answer it. Although the hon. mem­ Department of Primary Industries and the ber is noted for his humour, occasionally he consequent need for positive identification of overburdens the Chamber. individual owners. Mr. Aikens: I just want to inform you-­ It has been realised as a result of changes in livestock management that certain modi­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member fications are required to keep the legislation will please not comment. abreast of general practice. The Bill gives legislative effect to changes suggested by RURAL TRAINING SCHOOLS BILL dairying and pastoral interests, and the oppor­ tunity has been taken to include changes INITIATION suggested by the Government to remedy Hon. G. F. R.. NICKUN (Premier­ deficiencies in the existing legislation and Landsborough): I move- remove certain anomalies. "That the House will, a't its present It should be kept in mind that the branding sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of or earmarking of stock in Queensland is not the Whole to consider introducing a Bill compulsory, but if an owner desires to use to provide for the control and management a brand and earmark they must first be of rural training schools." registered. As a means of identifying indi­ vidual horses and cattle, it is permissible for Motion agreed to. the first brander to imprint numerals under­ neath his registered brand for reference to BRANDS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL any stud or herd book or to denote the age of animals so marked. Merit has been found INITIATION IN COMMITTEE in the submission of producers that it would (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, be advantageous to allow the first brander of Greenslopes, in the chair) cattle the choice of imprinting numerais above or below his registered brand. In the Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister case of cattle branded on the ribs, if the for Primary Industries) (11.32 a.m.): I move- numerals are imprinted above the registered "That a Bill be introduced to amend the brand it should assist a person to read the Brands Acts, 1915 to 1945, in certain par­ numbers whilst on horseback. ticulars." The Bill therefore makes provision for The pastoral and dairying industries are of the use of numerals above the registered major importance to the State of Queensland, brand where cattle are branded on the ribs. and to the nation. The beef cattle population As existing legislation authorises the of Queensland is approximately 6,000,000, or imprinting of only one line of numerals below approximately 45 per cent. of the total beef a registered brand and two rows of numerals cattle population of Australia. Dairy cattle are required for the identification of stud number approximately 1,000,000, equivalent animals, the Bill makes provision for this to 23 per cent. of the dairy cattle in the practice. 524 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

The Brands Acts were amended in 1932 imprinted, shall be consistent with the design to permit the use of a special distinctive of the brand as shown on the certificate of brand on horses or cattle registered in a stud registration. book of any s•tud horse society or stud cattle The existing Acts empower the Minister, society approved by the Minister. Because upon the recommendation of the Registrar, of the introduction of new breeds of horses to cancel the registration of any brand or and cattle and the need for positive identifica­ earmark that is similar to, or easily con­ tion of animals used in up-grading pro­ vertible into, another brand or earmark grammes, breed societies have requested an already in use in the same locality. Upoa alteration of the present legislation to extend cancellation, the Registrar is then required to this privilege to the use of such brands on forthwith allot and register a substitute brand other than pure-bred animals. The enact­ or earmark without the payment of a further ment of new legislation will enable the fee. Minister to approve the registration of special brands for the use of members of an associa­ Mr. Dufficy: Upon whose application will tion forme·d with a view to establishing, it be cancelled? fostering, or improving the breeding of stock. Mr. ROW: I am coming to that. At At present some difficulty presents itself present, where there are two similar brands, in the allotment and registration of brands the responsibility rests on the Registrar to to State Government departments and public allot the brand. If the hon. member listens instrumentalities because the brands so to what I am 3!bout to say, I think it will allotted do not generally conform to the type clear the question up for him. of brands allotted to other applicants. It is At present the Registrar is obliged to issue proposed to facilitate the allotment and regis­ a brand or earmark dissimilar to neighbouring tration of special brands to such bodies, and brands or earmarks without having the any earmarks and symbol brands which information to enable him to do so. Some~ require registration in conjunction with these times, because of the refusal on the part of special brands. the owner to supply the required informa­ tion, it has been necessary for a brands The Bill provides that such public inspector to make a special visit to thf: instrumentalities shall be approved by the locality. The proposed Bill provides that the Minister. With the passing of this legislation owner of a brand or earmark cancelled it will be necessary for any department or because of similarity shall be required, within public instrumentality at pre·sent holding such 90 days, to make fresh application for regis­ a brand and earmark to re-apply for regis­ tration of a substitute brand or earmark. tration of such brand and earmark. An amendment is also included to allow The Acts at present do not positively set the registration of more than one cattle ear­ out the method to be adopted in determining mark in any one district with the one the size of characters in a brand, and this registered brand. At the present time, only method has now been defined. Because of a stud breeder may have up to three registered deficiencies in the past, it has been impossible earmarks with the one brand in any one to sustain prosecutions for the use of over­ district, and it is thought that present manage-­ size brands. The possession or use of ment practices justify the extension of this branding instruments that do not comply privilege to stock-owners in general. How­ with the provisions of the Acts have now been ever, before registration of more than one made an offence for which a penalty may be earmark, the Registrar will have- to be imposed and the instruments seized. This satisfied that special circumstances necessitate should assist in reducing the area of hide 1he registration of the additional earmark. damaged by brands. It is not proposed to Because of the restricted use of spaying alter the present size of brands, which must of cows and the need for some- positive be not less than H- inches or more than 2t identification, other than that obtained inches, but rather to define the size of the through fire branding, of animals that have brand measured vertically. been treated as a disease-control measure, it In view of the high incidence of error in is considered desirable to restrict the use of imprinting brands that include a horizontally­ the circular spay cut to the "near" ear only. The "off" ear can then be set aside for placed letter, the Bill provides that where a identification of animals treated for brucel­ brand includes a horizontally-placed letter the branding instrument used for imprinting losis, tuberculosis, or pleuro-pneumonia, for such brand shall have the horizontal letter example. In effect, the "off" ear is set aside permanently joined to another letter, numeral, for other identification marks; the "near" ear is to be used only for the spay mark. sigri or character that is part of the brand. Recognition is also given in the Bill to This should be of assistance to the stock­ the use of tattoos and ear-tags. owner who relies upon an employee to carry out branding activities and should reduce the Present legislation does not allow of the number of brands incorrectly imprinted. transfer of a cattle earmark other than with the brand with which it is registered, nor does In order to prevent the use of distorted it allow of the re-registration of a cattle ear­ characters that could lend themse·lves to mal­ mark unless it has been out of use for at least practice, the Bill requires that brands, when five years. Experience has shown that in Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 525 many cases the former owner of a property For similar reasons, provision has been is prepared, upon sale of the property, to made in the Bill for the printing of a sheep allow the new owner the use. of the cattle brands and earmarks directory in every earmark that has been used on the property, second year instead of annually as required even though he wishes to retain the brand at present. All reference to the printing of for use in another locality. The point, of such directory in the Gazette has been course, is that a brand can be used all over deleted. This should obviate delays in Queensland but an earmark is allotted for printing and also enable competitive quotes only a certain district. for printing to be obtained. In order to permit of this practice, pro­ It has been found necessary to amend the vision is made for the cancellation of an section dealing with the annual return of earmark and its immediate re-allotment and brands and earmarks to provide that every registration upon the written authority of owner of a registered brand and earmark the previous owner. shall transmit a return to the Registrar of Where a brand is cancelled under the all brands and earmarks registered in his provisions of the Act as a disused brand, name as at the first day of January of each it is now clearly stated that any cattle ear­ year. The relevant section at present is mark and symbol brand registered for use in worded in such a way that it places this conjunction with such brand shall be simul­ obligation only on the registered owner of taneously cancelled. a brand and earmark who is required to sub­ The rules of branding as contained in the mit a return of stock. In effect, a man existing legislation have been reviewed and not owning any stock but wanting to retain stated in a clearer and more concise form. his brand now has to fill in a form showing No significant change has been made but the brand. the order of cross•branding of horses and It has been necessary to strengthen the cattle already branded on the cheek with a powers of an inspector as regards entry, symbol brand has been clearly defined. inspection, investigation and report. Previously, there was some conflict in the wording of the Acts and the rules of It is felt that section 18, as it stands at branding printed on the reverse side of present, is too severe in that it provides, on certificates of registration. the authority of the Minister, for the immed­ iate cancellation of a brand and/ or earmark It has been necessary to define "travelling for which a return has not been submitted. sheep" to give meaning to the provisions of Administrative practice has been for a notice the Act and also to bring the Brands Acts of intention to cancel to be transmitted to into line with the Stock Acts in so far as the registered owner of a brand/ or earmark they both relate to the branding of travelling who has failed to submit the required return. sheep. The section of the Acts relating Should the registered owner fail to show to to the registration of distinctive brands for the Registrar just cause why registration use on the c

Because of difficulties in complet,ing for­ engaged in production. Of course, it is very malities within the prescribed time, provision [nteresting to be able to go to some file and is made in the Bill for the extension of the' find out, say, how many tons of a certain period within which a prosecution may be mineral is mined in some remote part of the instituted. This perrod has been extended State. to that laid down under the Justices Acts, It is interesting to be able to ascertain or to within six months after the offence in from statistical records population trends and question comes to the knowledge of the all the other tremendously detailed informa­ complainant, whichever period is the later to tion about what goes on, and it is essential expire. that this should be so. However, it seems The Bill also provides increases in penal­ that, for some reason or other, departments ties. Previously the maximum penalty under may be asking for too much information. the Brands Acts was a fine of £50. This To my mind this tends to build up an figure was set in 1872. Because of the administrative staff out of all proportion to increased value of stock a penalty of up to the outside field staff, which plays such an £200 for a major breach is now provided. important part. It is true that a good deal Where a person is convicted of an offence of statistical information must be available for which no penalty is specifically prescr[bed, so that a determination can be made on provision has been made for a penalty of whether a problem is sufficiently important £100. to warrant investigation. If there should be The Bill clearly sets out the course of an outbreak of tuberculosis, or some other action to be taken for the recovery of moneys ·disease, and only hearsay information was payable to the Crown in the event of the available it would be difficult to find out sale, by order of the court, of stock bearing how important it was, and whether it justified a brand which has been altered or blotched. some Government-control measure. It seems that notification of such circumstances is The manner in which action shall be taken necessary so that the authorities may look to recover fees payable under this Act has at the problem to determine whether it been prescribed in the Bill. justifies some help, attention, control, or The Bill will give the Under Secretary, other measure deemed suitable to meet it. Department of Primary Industries, power to I appeal to the Minister not to unduly determine the manner in which branding harass people on the land with a whole lot instruments, pliers or any other thing other of information that they are required to keep than stock seized by an inspector and forfeited up to date with in various amendments from to the Crown shall be disposed of. time to time. It is very difficult for the Opportunity has been taken to re-word ordinary person, even the motorist, to keep sections 20, 25 and 27 to give clearer up to date with various amendments as meaning. The amendments and alterations enacted. If we were to be perfectly frank effected have been made to allow the we would agree that very few of us would provisions of the Bill to be fully implemented pass a test concerning our knowledge of the by regulations. traffic regulations. I do not think that the I commend the Bill to the Committee. people I know are in a different category from others in the community and, judging Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ from the number who have not renewed their Leader of the Opposition) (11.54 a.m.): I driving licences and have had to submit suppose it is to be expected that an industry themselves to another test in which they which, as the Minister has indicated, returns have failed, there is every indication that a gross sum of £175,000,000 a year will have we are getting so many regulations about problems that necessitate an examination by so many subjects that it is beyond the the Legislature from time to time. The capacity of the ordinary person with a job measure before us is no exception in that of work to do to understand them all. regard. The Minister has indicated that it The ordinary man on the land does not contains quite a number of important amend­ receive notification of all amendments, such ments designed either to assist those engaged as those described by the Minister this in the industry or to give greater powers to morning. He may read the country Press the officers appointed by the Government to or some suitable journal circulating in his administer the Act. It appears symptomatic area and make mental notes-and sometimes of the times that this Bill, like so many written notes-of some of the important others, clothes the administration with more obligations devolving upon him so that he powers and greater ease and access to enforce may conform with the law. However, I do those powers than was the case previously. not think we should unduly burden the man Following a short discussion with the hon. on the land with amendments that are not member for Warrego, whose views on this absolutely essential. I can only express the matter coincide with mine, I again have hope that the amendments in the Bill are cause to draw attention, as I have done on of great importance to the industry generally. many occasions in debates on the Estimates An interesting thought passed through my of the Department of Primary Industries and mind when I listened to the Minister's at other appropriate times, to the tremendous remarks. He said that branding is not com­ 'amount of statistical information that is pulsory in this State. I do not know what required by Governments today from people percenl!age of the total livesl!ock in the State Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 527 is unbranded but it seems extraordinary with tion, and will enable people to move more the tremendous number of livestock in the rapidly and effectively in the event of cer­ State that someone has not made up his tain developments, for example, disease. mind, one way or the other, on whether branding should be compursory or not. It The number of brands and earmarks is obvious that it is in the interests of a quoted was remarkable. The decision to stock-owner to have some meaNs of identifica­ reduce the size of the brand seems desirable tion, although I am told that there are those because of the considerable commercial who can identify unbranded stock. I value of the hide. It is proposed to impose remember once talking to Mr. Faulkner, who a limit of three earmarks. One would need took a number of stud rams to South Africa. good eyesight to be able to identify some To me, all the sheep in a mob look alike; of the brands and earmarks, although I I could not identify one sheep from another. suppose those experienced in this sort of This mob of rams numbere·d over 200 and thing would know how to go about it. I was told that he could identify each one. They were marked on the underside and the There is a departure in regard to new mark was not discernible until the beast was breeds which are not pure. The develop­ turned over. However, he identified each ment of a new breed is an important con­ individual ram in the consignment. That was tribution. The tendency for the registration a remarkable feat. I suppose that any of a particular skill or quality in an animal, number of people could identHy their stock, or in some project, seems to be developing, which would give credence to the statement and pressure is exerted from time to time that people can identify stock as their own that such an animal should be accorded although they may not carry an owner's the status of pure-bred stock. The justifica­ brand. tion advanced from time to time for horse racing is the development of a better breed Today, with the high value of stock and of horse. I sometimes wonder how the mobility of modern vehicles, there is authentic that claim is because it could also greater temptation to engage in a mild form be claimed that the chief purposes of breed­ of thieving. The purpose of branding is to ing racehorses are prize money and provide some identification to prevent the gambling. I do not think that the breeding theft of stock. We have heard recently, of racehorses results in improving the particularly in New South Wales, that quality of hacks used on station properties. vehicles have arrived, animals have been I do not think there has been any great slaughtered, and the carcasses have been development in that direction. taken away quickly for sale. The number involved would not assume serious propor­ Mr. Aikens: Some poorly-bred race­ tions, although one reads of that sort of horses have been our biggest stake winners. thing happening. Mr. DUGGAN: That is true. It is not We have also taken cognisance of the possible to determine on a hereditary basis tendency of some people to brand stock whether a horse will be a good stake which is not their own. If there are large winner. I should like to hear more at numbers of unbranded stock on a property, the second-reading stage on the justification it would seem to indicate that either there are not enough personnel to brand the stock, for extending rhe use of these brands to new or the area is too large to permit effective breeds. Quite apart from racehorses, I supervision and control of the stock. The would say, that there have been some hon. member for Barcoo and the hon. mem­ significant developments in stock breeding in ber for Warrego will have more detailed the cattle industry. information on that point. Mr. Row: Stock affected will be mostly All in all, I suppose that these measures cattle. are regarded as desirable. The fact that this Act has operated for almost 100 years, Mr. DUGGAN: There is a need to develop and has been used as a model for similar a breed of ca:ttle that matures quickly; Acts, indicates that those who framed it had is resistant to ticks; is wble to stand up to common sense in this regard. I do not sup­ droughts; travels well; and is possessed of pose there were greater difficulties of inter­ all the other attributes necessary in stock pretation and identification in the early days grazed under widely varying conditions. than at present. Following these amend­ On my recent trip through South-east Asia ments, the time will come when more amend­ I found that in Thailand a contribution was ments will be necessary for further being made by the Australian Government clarification. to improving breeds of dairy cattle in that country. There are climatic problems to In view of the representations that have be met, and the grasses lack the nutrient been submitted to the Government, there value necessary to return a high yield of have been compelling reasons to justify the milk. Crossbreeds are being developed, by changes that are now sought. They are means of artificial insemination, from probably not tremendously important in the local cows and some of the best strains sense that there will be no dramatic changes available in Denmark, Amevica, and other in the industry, but I suppose they make for places. H is hoped that the crosses so pro­ better control measures and easier identifica- duced will give increased milk yields. 528 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Much the same type of work is being I cannot see how I can give very much credit done in Australia, particularly in Queens­ to the great majority of graziers, because land, the aim being to produce a greater it is true that in this huge State of Queens­ turnoff of stock than is now possible with land, which is, of course, the main cattle­ some of the recognised breeds that do well producing State in Australia, there are fewer in areas where pastures are more lush than cattle than there are in Great Britain, and they are in Queensland. in area Great Britain probably would fit All in all, I suppose the provisions of into Cape York Peninsula. I doubt whether the Bill can be regarded as desirable. An the cattle population of Queensland has examina-tion of it will allow us to say increased appreciably in the last 50 years. whether some of the measures seem to While we are dealing with the question impinge a little too heavily on those of brands, I again suggest to the Minister engaged in rural industry. No doubt the who is introducing this measure that he Minister will say that they are necessary, have a talk with his colleagues in the and if evidence is produced to support that Ministry relative to the opportunities that view the Opposition will not offer any the Criminal Code provides for people who objection to the Bill. I will therefore reserve wiil take advantage of this Bill, and various further comment till later, and now leave it other Acts, to engage in sheep stealing, cattle to others on this side of the Chamber who duffing, or even stealing an ass. Only very wish to speak on this very important matter, rarely now do we hear of people being which is of tremendous value to the State charged with cattle stealing. Under a pro­ as a whole and no doubt of interest to all vision in the Criminal Code, they are hon. members, particularly those represent­ charged merely with illegally using the cattle ing pastoral areas. they steal, or illegally using the ass or the Mr. AIKENS (TownsV'ille South) (12.8 sheep they steal; just as the louts who steal p.m.): One of the main reasons for the valuable motor-cars are charged not with introduction of the Bill is, I assume, to stealing them, but only with illegally using grapple with the problem presented by what them. As I said, I think the Minister for is known as cattle duffing because it is on Primary Industries might well have a talk the evidence of brands that such cases are to his colleague the Minister for Justice, and won or lost. In my young days I knew to others who might know something about very well, aHhough I did not work with this matter, and see whether the glaring them, some of the finest cattle duffers this anomalies in the Criminal Code to which I State has ever produced, and I know the have referred particularly can be cleaned up. value that they p1aced on indistinct brands, We shall never be able to take full advan­ brands that were not readily discernible, tage of the provisions of the proposed Bill and brands that could be easily altered. I therefore realise the Minister's desire to until we make a definite effort to increase clean up as far as possrble all matters cattle and sheep numbers in Queensland, connected with brands. and that is not being done at present. A handful of graziers, particularly those in the Whilst I am on this subject I should like North, are doing all they can, by the con­ to draw the attention of the Committee to servation of fodder-- what is probably one of the most serious anomalies in the criminal law related to this The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind the subject. It may not be generally known hon. member that I have given him a lot of that under the criminal law of Queensland latitude, and I ask him to deal with the a person who steals any beast at all is Brands Act. liable to imprisonment for seven years, whilst anybody who steals a motor-car Mr. AlKEN§: I could not agree with you valued at less than £1,000 can be sentenced more, Mr. Hooper, because, when all is to imprisonment for only three years. The said and done, if we are to allow members £1,000 does not refer to the original purchase of this Assembly to wander all over the price of the vehicle; this provision may place in discussing a Bill, the session will for instance, include a very valuable motor­ never end. If you feel that I am digressing car that had depreciated in value to £999. from the main purpose of the Bill, I shall So the law still retains within it some of be very happy to get back to the actual pro­ the traditions of the days when squatters visions outlined by the Minister. controlled and made the laws of the State. Mr. Smit.h: It seems to me that the I am not going to quote the sections of increase in stock numbers would of necessity the Criminal Code dealing with the matter­ be connected with brands. ! could do that for the information and edifi­ cation of the hon. member for Windsor and Mr. AIKENS: I was going to deal with the hon. member for South Brisbane, but I the need to increase stock numbers so that prefer that they should look up their own those who want to keep within the law may legal references-but it is absolutely ridicu­ be able to keep within the provisions of lous that our law should provide for seven the Bill. However, the Chairman of Com­ years' imprisonment for stealing a beast, mittees has suggested that I might be out of whether an ox, an ass, a sheep, or a Iamb, order in doing that, and I shall be quite and only three years' imprisonment for steal­ happy, as I always am, to bow unreservedly ing a motor-car with a value of less than to his opinion, without arguing about it at £1,000. all. If every member in this Chamber were Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 529 as concerned as I am about the dignity and The purpose of the Bill, as the Minister decorum of this Assembly, then it would has said, is to have an adequate system of be a much happier place. registered brands and earmarks with a view to preventing cattle stealing and protecting Mr. Smith: Are you going to be sent out the property of stock owners. today? The original Bill was brought down for Mr. AIKENS: I have something to say that purpose which, of course, is a very about the Treasurer, about the Minister for desirable purpose to fulfil. All of us who Lands, and about the hon. member for have had any association with stock know Townsville North, before I am suspended on the amount of stock-stealing that does go on. a future occasion, and I shall gently chide and It is quite extraordinary. rebuke them, knowing full well-- The Minister comes from a district where the acts of a number of men-probably The CHAIRMAN: Order! in the present and certainly in the past, make Ned Kelly look like an amateur. The Mr. AIKENS: I was led astray, Mr. blatant stealing of stock that has gone on Hooper. in that district alone-! speak with some authority on this because I suffered mildly Perhaps the Minister will remember a recent case in the Criminal Court in Towns­ from the same racket-is quite extraordinary. ville over the ringing-in of a horse at the Mr. Aikens: And they would be babes in Mingela annual race meeting. The whole of arms compared with some of the boys in the the evidence in that case-in fact, I think it West. was the basis on which those who were charged were found not guilty-revolved Mr. MURRAY: The hon. member for round the branding of the horse in question. Townsville South is familiar with some One side had men who thought they knew western practices. I know, having been in something about horses going into the witness Western New South Wales, that extraordinary box and saying that the brand on the horse things do happen there. The hon. member meant a certain thing. Then the other side for Roma, with his long experience, would -the Crown or the defence, whichever it may know very well some of the amazing acts have been-had other witnesses going into that people stealing stock have got away the witness box and saying that the brand on with. It has been, as the hon. member for the horse meant something entirely different, Townsville South mentioned, very difficult and it was the confusion presented to the indeed to press home a conviction for stock jury by this conflicting evidence given by men stealing. I am sure the hon. member for who claimed they knew all about brands and Windsor and the hon. member for South what they meant and indicated that I believe Brisbane will be able to tell us good reasons was responsible for the not guilty verdict in for that, as the hon. member for Townsville that case. South has. If the Minister feels that the provisions It is very difficult b:=cause of one important of this Bill will do anything to clear up the factor-the extraordinary inclination among confusion that exists in the minds of experi­ Australians to have sympathy for the Ned enced cattle men and sheep men in regard Kellys. Whether it is simply a streak of to brands or what have you, then I will be 1believing that somebody who steals stock is quite happy-if after having read the Bill I just smart, or a fear that anyone who see those provisions are in it-to support it. informs or takes some action to have the guilty apprehended will also suffer at the Mr. MURRAY (C!ayfield) (12.16 p.m.): hands of these people, I am not quite sure. This is, of course, an important Bill and I It is probably a combination of both. But congratulate the Minister on bringing it down. everyone knows full well the difficulty of The tidying up of our Brands Act is long driving home convic,tions. It is a very overdue. As the Minister outlined, Queens­ ~erious state of affairs. In the first place land's beef cattle and sheep populations­ 1t calls for a very clear system of branding. the hon. member for Townsville South, of The clearest system of branding that can be course, was quite correct in this-have not devised is a basic necessity. increased. In fact, when the original Brands Act was passed in 1872 the stock numbers Mr. Ewan: Don't you think that the jury system is responsible for a good deal for both sheep and cattle would have been of the difficulty? about as high as they are now. They have see-sawed up and down since then. But Mr. MURRAY: The hon. member has that is another story and the reasons for it raised a very good point. That may well are quite outside the scope of this Bill. be so. I think the jury system should be Mr. Aikens: When you people tried to looked at. It is making it extremely increase the number of cattle on the wet difficult to drive home convictions for stea,l­ coastal belt, you and I were abused for ing stock. supporting it. Mr. Aikens: How can the juries give good verdicts when experts on brands differ? Mr. MURRAY: That, again, is another story, although it is quite true. Mr. MURRAY: That is often the case. 530 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

With his colleague, the Minister in charge sufficient only for discussion at the intro­ of police, the Minister for Primary Industries ductory stage and we look forward to could well take some positive steps to build examining its clauses in detail. the police stock squad into something really worth while. Amongst the members of the I did not quite catch the Minister's com­ Police Force we have some very smart ments when he dealt with the number of stockmen, men who would like to see the brands held by some companies and institu­ stock squad built up to a far more effective tions. If one examines the brands register force than it is. The Minister would know one can see hundreds of brands owned by what happened in the Herbert River district the Bank of New South Wales and other after stock had been stolen there. I remem­ banks, proba:bly as a result of their taking ber the police squad coming up from over properties many years ago. One can Brisbane to Ingham. They borrowed horses, fully understand how difficult it is for a saddles and the like from me. I set them newcomer to the industry to register a useful up with all sorts of gear. Everybody knew brand nowadays. Coming from another they were there and exactly what they were State, I experienced this in Queensland. I doing. One could not possibly camouflage went to the depa,rtment to register a brand them although whether it was desirable to and an earmark. An earmark is quite easy try to do so or not, I do not know. In to register, applying as it does to a district, any case they lost speed in getting onto the but it is extremely difficult to get a useful job because they had no equipment when brand as brands are effective for the whole they arrived. There was no-one in the of the State. Hundreds of brands that were district-from Townsville north, anyway­ registered in the early days are tied up and qualified to get on a horse and carry out never used. this work straight away. One cannot drive Mr. O'Donnell: Have you a solution to around much of that district satisfactorily this? in a vehicle. Mr. MURRAY: It is essential that brands l\'k. Aikens: They could fly around. that have not been used for some time should be recalled and cancelled. I am not Mr. MURRAY: That could be very useful, sure what the Minister intends doing. too. Mr. O'DonneU: Sometimes they are On that occasion the stock squad proved retained through family pride. quite ineffective although it was not through Mr. MURRAY: That is true, but I think any fault of its members. The Minister for we must be realistic about it. We seek Primary Industries, with his colleague the clarity in the Bill. At present there are Minister in charge of police, could render a extraordinary brands with letters and great service by ensuring that the stock squad numerals lying on their side, that are is built up into an effective unit. extremely difficult to read. When I was in the United States of Mr. Aikens: The sides of some beasts look America a few years ago I was very like pakapu tickets. interested to learn that the National Cattle­ Mr. MURRAY: That is true-illegally men's Association, a sort of equivalent of so, of course. our United Graziers' Association, has its own officers doing this sort of work in con­ I think the Minister should consider recal­ ling many hundreds of good brands held junction with the police. They are a body by firms, companies and banks, that are not of smar:t, well-trained, highly-qualified and presently in use and have not been used for well-paid stockmen who are provided with many years. station wagons, good horses and a11 the necessary equipment. They attend every sale. Another matter referred to by the Minister They look at stock in transit wherever was the indiscriminate use of numerals in practicable; they are experts, trained in branding. For herd control-mainly for brands. They drive home many prosecutions stud purposes-numerals are placed all over and when the National Cattlemen's Journal a beast-in any place suitable to the owner. is published, on the inside of the front This is quite illegal. If a check were made page is listed the number of prosecutions and of the commercial studs today, or if a check the names of those prosecuted by these were made at the Brisbane Exhibition, it officers who are employed by the National would show that cattle from reputable studs Cattlemen's Association. The publication of were branded illegally because owners want the details in this way is most effective. their own forms of identification. We put These officers keep down stock-stealing in a particular sire identification on the twist an effective way. We all know that cattle­ of our stud animals. It is very clear as the stealing in this State is extremely serious. beast walks away. One could do all sorts Most of us who have been active in stock of things which are illegal, but which are work know full well that, to our discredit, extremely convenient in managing a herd. we are turning a blind eye to the practice. It may be that cattle are worked in a I think the Bill will be useful and I look certain way in a race, or that pens face a forward to studying it. Jlhe Minister's certain way, and it may be therefore more outline of the principles of a Bill is convenient, although branding on one side, Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 53t to put the herd identification number on the complaint. When such complaints are made, other side. That is purely for working con­ however, people comment to the effect that venience. I should hate to see too much because someone complained, he must be in rigidity or control, which would be irksome the wrong. In this instance, that was not to many people who have good intentions true. I mentioned the matter myself to the in the control of their herds. Police Department, and I think the Minister should check to see if it has been raised I look forward to studying the Bill, and and take action to see that the stock squad I congratulate the Minister on its introduc­ is careful in this matter in future. tion. But I again stress that the industry itself, through the United Graziers' Associa­ It is noticed that the penalties prescribed tion or its allied bodies, could do a tremen­ have been increased, and no doubt that will dous amount more to prevent stock stealing be viewed as important by those in the grazing than to leave it to departmental officers, industry. After all, the legislation now stock inspectors, and the police squad. It before the Committee and previous similar is desirable that they be urged to do so. I legislation, is to protect people, and the am sure that there is some way in which raising of penalties, particularly when this can be done in a practical manner. It criminal action is involved, is most important. would be most effective against this highly After all, in 1872, I think the Minister said, ~mdesirable practice of stock stealing, which the maximum was £50, so that £200 today IS far more rampant than is admitted. does not seem to be an undue increase. Perhaps there may be protests from some Mr. O'DONNEJLL (Barcoo) (12.32 p.m.): sections of the industry at the printing of the I shall eliminate from my contribution many brands directory every four years instead of of the subjects that have been canvassed every two years. I quite apprtlciate, as the already, with which I agree substantially, Minister said, that preparing it is very costly. and come further down my list to the items I wish to raise on this important question. Those are general items that I noted during the Minister's introduction. Speakers before We all agree that owners must be pro­ me have also raised important points. One tected, and that anything done to further concerned the police stock squad. I am very disease control is of great benefit to all happy that Queensland has such a squad. One sections of the community. The provision section of it is stationed at Blackall, and I am of special brands for use in stud breedina aware of its activities in other parts of the exists now and I welcome the extension of State. I am all for it, because it is there to this provision to associations for stock breed­ protect people who are wronged. They are ing improvement. I am pleased that special people who have legitimately gone about their brands and earmarks are to be allotted to business and who, through the actions of Government departments and public instru­ some people with criminal tendencies, have mentalities. Those are functionino- bodies suffered. Unfortunately in the grazing indus­ ~hJch do not recei:'e a great deal"' of pub­ try today there are certain casual customers licity. The Registrar's work will be who stick their necks out and continue to facilitated, and the powers of inspectors will stick them out year after year, and are the be strengthened. first to complain when things go wrong. I am a little concerned about the powers My Leader and other speakers have refer­ of inspectors. If my memory serves me red to the fact that although branding is not c~rrectly, the Minister said that an inspector compulsory anyone who wants to use brands will have power to enter and leave a pro­ must register them. All the trouble stems perty with any assistants, animals. vehicles from the fact that the use of brands is not etc. Quite rightly so; but entry with animal~ compulsory. I should like to argue the rights could raise complications, especially when and wrongs of compulsion in this matter, and an inspector moves from a tick area to a I should like to argue the common sense of clean area. This matter was brought to my having brands and using them. After all, the notice by a disgruntled grazier who in his man who does not use brands leaves his original communication to me,' made' only a beasts as clean-skins. Certainly, a beast with general complaint about the attitude of the a blotched brand may be regarded as a clean­ police. I could not understand why he com­ skin-! am not forgetting that; I have read plained, because I am familiar with the the Act-but I want to draw a distinction powers of the police under the Brands Act. between a clean-skin that has no mark on it I said, "You have no reason to complain." and a clean-skin that has a blotched brand. He said, "They brought horses from the tick I have a considerable portion of the an':a onto my land." That is an important brigalow lands in my electorate, and I pomt. inform hon. members that from the properties If I understand the requirements correctly of Arcadia, Warrinilla, Buran, and part of horses have to be sprayed before being moved Wiseby, 31 new properties have been estab­ from a tick area to a clean area. I raise this lished by subdivision. If I may take the matter because I think it should be noted and figures supplied by the Minister for Lands members of the police stock squad should be when introducing the legislation for the told to abide by the regulations when they implementation of the brigalow scheme, he have to move horses from a tick area to a said that the potential carrying capacity of clean area. I feel that the grazier to whom I each block would be from 800 to 1,000 head have referred was justified in making his of cattle. It is easily seen, therefore, that 532 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

these 31 properties could carry anything from There is no direction for the property­ 25,000 to about 30,000 head-at least, they owner and, when he starts to move them out could with development. Of course, over and, perhaps, say, "As a compensation I the years they have not been developed. will put them through the saleyard on my own behalf", the stock-owner's interest The owner of Arcadia, Mr. Price, and revives. He says, "You cannot do that to the owner of Warrinilla, Mr. Logan, and the my stock". In addition, the police squad other persons concerned, allowed their cattle begins to take an interest. In some instances, to roam over extensive areas, and unfortu­ the person who has disposed of such stock nately, as a consequence, hundreds of clean­ has approached the holder of the retention skins have become involved in the subdivision. block, the original holder of the whole area, People who know the Land Act know that a and asked him to do something about it, but man who has a stretch of country unfenced he has been put off until another time. We has no power to control stock that roam have had one instance in which a person over his property until he has a period of actually put his own brand on stock to dis­ three years of occupancy, when he can ask pose of them, and the stock squad stepped for the stock to be impounded and do some­ in, even though that man went to the police thing about them. Of course, he is often station and the local officer gave him a faced with the position that the local council permit to travel the stock. He was eventu­ does not want to take action. ally charged with illegally branding stock On the other hand, when a settler has a that he knew were not his. condition imposed on him that he must fence his property within a certain specified time, That is another story, fortunately with he has to go ahead and fence, and he usually a happy ending, but where do we go includes in his property a number of clean­ from thePe? The consequences are clear skins. The ownership of these beasts becomes now. The stock squad, which could do so very interesting once the fence goes round much for the people of this State, sometimes the property. They are really a nuisance exceeds its powers because instructions were to the property-owner who has to clear the issued and police visited every block in land, burn the felled timber, and then grass the area telling these people to leave the the land. As a matter of fact. he does not cleanskins alone. I think that was an exten­ want stock on it for a while, and we must not sion of power that is completely undesirable forget that his property is fenced. These and I wnnt to put the blame right where it clean-skins are real clean-skins. They have should be-on the men who neglected to never been tamed, if I may use that term, or use a brand; the men who neglected to handled, and they are a source of danger co-operate with the new settlers and to give to the property-owner. At times they destroy them a break in developing their country. I the fences; they destroy the grass on his will name them-Mr. Logan and Mr. Price. property. In fact, they destroy the hard Mr. Logan puts a great deal of value on work that he has put into his property. the brigalow lands. After he made his agree­ Consequently, there is a very strong feeling ment with the Department of Lands and about these animals. However, the original received his retention area, he and his wife owner-he still calls himself the owner, bid to the skies at auction to get two blocks. strange to say-becomes irate if he cannot Mr. Price also thought they were good value get his stock. Does he do anything about it? because he, too, obtained a block. But Do we hear of any approach by him to where is the co-operation between these men these people? No, not until it suits him, and and the new settlers who come in hard then he wants to make arrangements to suit pressed for cash and are placed in the himself. He does not care what time might invidious position of being expected to run suit the property-owner; it is the time that clean-skins with no agistment fees until it suits him. Sometimes he makes an offer of suits these people to identify those stock some form of compensation, perhaps in lieu as their own? of an agistment fee, to the person concerned It is most important that we realise that if he musters them. some actions are even worse than that. One Mr. Hewitt: They would have died of old gentleman is very happy with the arrange­ age if the country had not been cut up. ment for the fenced properties, because a couple of the settlers have been fortunate enough to acquire some stock. When this Mr. O'DONNELL: That is right; I agree person saw that some of his clean-skins were with that remark entirely. What action is in a group with some domesticated or to be taken? They have to be got off the handled cattle, he simply cut the fence, property. What is the property-owner to came through, mustered them and took them do? There is nothing in law that tells him off. what he can do. He has to take the law into his own hands and dispose of those We have that type of person in Queens­ stock. Should he shoot them? Should he laud-the man who regards himself as a beef muster them, turn them out onto the road, baron and who seems to think that having and let somebody else pick them up? Will held the land over the years he still has the council have anything to do with them? the right to use it after it has been balloted Also, whom does he sue if the clean-skins to struggling settlers. Surely there must do extensive damage? be some way that we can inform Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 533 people in the settled areas of the State who essential that they should be given publicity. do not use their registered brands that The Press has an important duty to bring if their cattle get outside of their reten­ before the people of this State many matters tion area or off their own property, there of great concern. But it does not. When is a grave risk that they will lose them we are considering a measure dealing with because they have no proof of ownership. the basis of our existence, namely, primary production, even greate-r publicity should be I do not think any person should be sub­ given to it to bring home to the people who jectd to the indignity of a visit by the live in the cities the essential nature of the stock squad and be told that in the opinion work that is being done and the difficulties of the stock squad-not the court-he has associate·d with it. committed a criminal offence. I object to any friend of mine, or any of my electors, It is interesting to note that this is the being put through the courts as guinea pigs second occasion since 1915 upon which a for the benefit of the Police Department. non-Labour Government has amended the Brands Act. As the hon. member for Mr. Aikens: Have you any particular case Clayfield said, Queensland is a big State and in mind? for that reason the allocation of brands is Mr. O'DONNELL: I have. very complicated. I have one suggestion to make in an endeavour to provide a solution Mr. Aikens: Tell us about it. to his problem; namely, that there could be a division of the State. I think it is Mr. O'DONNELL: I have said enough impossible to issue brands on a State basis. about it. Hon. members know about it. 'We have northern, central and southern The hon. member for Clayfield referred divisions which could be used in the allocation to illegal usage. A person in my electorate of brands, but I do not know whether that w:1s convicted, and it cost him £4,000 to is practicable. The hon. member for get out of it. It probably cost him the best Clayfield raised an important point but he part of £800 in legal expenses when he was did not give us the solution. I do not think convicted, but it cost him £4,000 to appeal. anyone can. When people go on the land as battlers they (Time expired.) cannot afford the luxury of legal actions. I am concerned about those people. Without Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (12.57 p.m.): doubt there are those who will let down the From the Minister's introductory comments best legisiation the State can enact-respon­ it appears that this is an important measure. sible and wealthy people who will not use However, I was somewhat disappointed in their brands unless it suits them. In my that, although several amendments are to be estimation they are greedy people. When made to the legislation, the Minister gave they see price trends due to the drought, us little clarification on the objectives of the they say, "Stock a!'e very valuable today." Bill. We can only assume that it is chiefly Like the child, they want their marbles for the purpose of preventing the stealing back. of stock. Mr. Aikens: Are you suggesting that some The hon. member who has just resumed graziers deliberately run clean-skins? his seat raised a very important point. In many cases people do not deserve much Mr. O'DONNELL: Of course they run sympathy because they do not care for their clean-skins. stock as they should. I do not agree that it is common for cattle to be unbranded, but Mr. Aikens: Why? people who leave their stock unbranded M>. O'DONNELL: Because they are too deserve to lose them. It is very difficult to casual and irresponsible. prove the ownership of cattle which have been branded by other than their owners Mr. Thackel'ay: How many clean-skins but, as the hon. member said, one way of would there be in Arcadia Valley? doing it in some of this new country which people are opening up is to assume that Mr. O'DONNELL: I don't know; I know those people had no cattle of their own. that on one property there were 200. Mr. O'Donneli: That is quite correct. I regard the Brands Act as a very impor­ tant piece of legislation, and so does the Mr. MULLER: In that case the question Australian Labour Party. We will look could be asked in court, "Where did you very carefully at the extensive list of pro­ get them?" Generally speaking, if cattle posed amendments to the Act submitted by are allowed to go unbranded and a person the Minister. Anything that is for the other than the owner brands them with his benefit of the rural people of Queensland, registered brand, it is very hard to prove tha: anything that will help to protect their they are not his property. interests, will receive the full support of this side of the Chamber. People who allow their stock to stray should be dealt with. At the moment, At times important le·gislation such as the straying stock are supposed to be impounded, Brands Act and .the Stock Act are considered but in many cases impounding is very diffi­ by Parliament, but do not receive sufficient cult today, as it is virtually impossible to publicity in the major newspapers. It is drive stock along the road because of the 534 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill traffic. This, of course, does not apply in stock onto the road. The objective of many newly opened country, where the position is people who do that, I suppose, is to let the quite different. local authority deal with them. As the hon. member for Barcoo said, local authorities do [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] not want to be concerned with this problem. It is almost impossible to impound stock. If Mr. MULLER: It is with some reluctance they are turned onto the road they are in the that I speak on the initiation of this Bill way of traffic and the problem is not solved. at all. But being a cattle man, and represent­ Although I am not clear on every detail in ing a number of stock-owners, it is my duty the Act, I believe that a person can impound to try to extract from the Minister what are stock on his own property up to a certain the objects of the Bill. I realise that when time and impose a minimum charge for their the Bill is printed I shall be able to gather recovery. that information myself. However, I feel that there is an obligation on the Minister Mr. Row: That is under the Local Govern­ to tell the Committee why the Bill has ment Act. been introduced and what are the amend­ Mr. MULLER: That is so. It is no use ments. It is difficult to ascertain how these referring to stock thieving only, and it is no amendments will bring about the improve­ good saying that this is a matter for the ment which I believe is intended. I can Local Government Department. Amending only assume that the purpose of the Bill the Brands Act does not fill the bill. is to prevent the thieving of stock. If that is so, the Minister should tell us that. Mr. Gaven: You can't drive them across the road. I take a lead from what the hon. member for Barcoo said. I can only assume that he Mr. MULLER: If a person pounds has a little inside information that no-one stock in his yard he can forget about else appears to have. I think there is some­ any charge that he can impose for thing in the points he made. He dealt impounding them, as it is quite slight. largely with clean-skins. There is some If a stock-owner does not remove them, obligation on a stock-owner to ensure that the onus falls on him to impound them. As his stock are branded with his registered the hon. member for South Coast said by way brand within a reasonable time, that is, at of interjection a moment ago, you cannot what is considered a fair age for stock to drive them across the road, so how are you be branded. If the owner fails to brand going to drive them 30, 40 or 50 miles along them by the time they are nine months old, the road to impound them at the nearest the onus should be on him to prove owner­ pound? That has become impossible. Times ship. If the purpose of having clean-skins and conditions have changed, and something is, as the hon. member for Barcoo claimed, has to be done about the present situation. to thieve grass and leave no evidence that could be used against the owner of the beast, I have a suggestion that I think might meet which does not bear his registered brand, the problem; at least it is worth consideration. something should be done about it. I can The Police Force is under the control of one appreciate that where people are opening and Minister, and brands are under the admini­ grassing land at considerable cost, it is stration of another. The Local Government impossible to fence it all securely to keep Department is under yet another Minister. stock out. The stock-owner must accept This matter has to be approached in the light the responsibility to retain his stock on his of practical common sense. If the police have own property. Under the Act, the respon­ to deal with it, I think they have to be given sibility lies on the stock-owner to see that not only greater power but all power. I his stock are kept in check, not that another suggest that when stock, branded or un­ person must have a fence around his pro­ branded, become a nuisance, they be petty. Unless there is a fence around the impounded in a yard of the property-owner property, the damages that can be sued into whose property they have strayed, or in for would be slight. any other yard that the police may direct. The police would then have power to impose In the last few years we have seen and a penalty on the stock and charge the owner heard a great deal about stock thieving in with the responsibility of taking possession of certain districts. I have discussed this matter them. I believe that such a provision would with members of the Police Force and they remove many of the difficulties. have told me that i:t is most difficult to ob1Jain a conviction under the existing cir­ Let us not delude ourselves into thinking cumstances. Some stock-owners-! am not that stock thieves can be blamed all the saying ever}"body; it is only a small per­ time. One would be justified in saying of centage-will not look after their stock, some people who lose stock, "It jolly well whether they are branded or unbranded; serves them right because they don't look they allow them to stray all over the place after them." Trying to get round to dealing and do not bother to muster them until they with those who deliberately place stock on the are ready to market. property of others by amending the Brands Act is merely playing with the problem. Some Something has to be done in such cases. of those who do this sort of thing know very The hon. member for Barcoo made a point well that the persons who have to put up with when he said that they can be turned onto the their stock will not go to the trouble of taking road. That is true, but no-one wishes to turn them to the nearest pound. Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 535

I should like the Minister to elaborate a think it would be unwise, therefore, to little on the difference in the size of brands. tamper with earmarks. An earmark is not I understood him to say that sizes vary from a complete means of identification-- H to 2-! inches. Mr. Gaven: You can pick an earmark up more quickly in the bush than you can pick Mr. Row: That is under the existing Act. up a brand. It has not been changed. Mr. MULLER: Yes, but it is not a com­ Mr. MULLER: What does the Minister plete means of identification. In certain propose to do? circumstances an earmark may be defaced by accident or something of that kind, and if Mr. Row: Define it. an earmark is applied to the ear of a very young animal, in some cases-1 do not say Mr. MULLER: What size? in all cases-as it grows older the earmark may not be as distinct as it was when it Mr. Row: It will be determined on the was applied. In cases such as that, one vertical height of the brand. It is the same cannot rely entirely on the earmark. I as under the present Act, except that it was stress that, in my opinion, it would be very not defined how it would be measured. It is unwise to give the owner of one property to be the vertical height. more than one registered earmark. The Minister mentioned the marking Mr. MULLER: If there is to be any of spayed cows and said that, under the definition, there should be uniformity. The proposed Bill, the circular mark would important point is that the size of a brand is have to be applied to one ear, governed largely by the age of the beast to and to one ear only-the left ear. I which it is applied. A calf may be branded thoroughly agree with that. At present the when it is three months old with a brand of circular mark may be placed in either ear, a particular size, but the brand will be about and if a beast accidentally came into contact three times as big when it is three years old. with barbed wire or a stick, or with another On the other hand, if a fully-grown beast is beast in the yard, the ear may be slit and branded, the size of the brand will not vary show a V mark. There could be tinkering a great deal. I do not know whether the with an earmark in those circumstances. If proposed amendment will make very much it must be in only one ear, the risk of difference in those circumstances. difficulty in proving ownership would be less, Earmarks are very important, and I although I do not say that difficulty could understood the Minister to say that one not arise. owner will be allowed to register three I believe tlrat today the stock -owner is different earmarks, or a number of different paying a very high levy for registration earmarks. Personally, I do not like that purposes and deserves a Little brt nf service idea. In my opinion, an owner of stock in return for it. The Government has an should register one earmark, and only one. obligation to see that service is rendered to If we look at the problem from the point of him. It seems most unwise to have a view of the stealing of stock, I could give multiplicity of control-three departments hon. members a fairly sound reason for are involved-and if control of stock is to sticking to one earmark. An earmark is be exercised and stock-stealing prevented, usually registered in the name of the owner one authority should be in control. Let us of the property-"Mr. Dufficy of Broadmere," leave control of brands with the Depart­ for example-and it may be referred to ment of Primary Industr;ies, if that is what as the Broadmere earmark, the Waverley the Committee should decide, but in order earmark, or the Barambah earmark, as the to control the stealing of stock I should case may be. A beast from that property prefer to see brands controlled by the Police could be sold and resold and resold; it Department, with police given the power could be rebranded and rebranded; but it to deal with cases that today are difficult. would have only one earmark. If owner­ Under the old system, of course, it did ship were disputed, it would be possible to not matter so much if stock were on the trace the beast back to the registered owner road. They might be walked anything from of the earmark. For this reason, I think 5 miles to, perhaps, 500 miles, but if stock there is a danger in one person's having are being taken to the pound, even today a multiplicity of earmarks. It might be only a mileage rate is allowed, and if they convenient in many instances to have more are put on wheels and taken to a pound than one, but if stock stealing is to be one would have to pay about five times prevented, I think one owner should use as much for transport costs as could be only one earmark. recovered in damages from the real owner of the stock. The whole position is hope­ The Act now prevents anyone from tam­ lessly out of date. Whilst I realise that pering with earmarks or doing any ear­ the Minister's intention is good, I think the marking on a beast that is already earmarked. matter should be dealt with thoroughly while I agree with that; I think it is very sound. we are at it. If we are to stop stock thieving Nobody should be allowed to either deface we need impounding regulations in which the an earmark or place another earmark on a whole procedure is set down in such a way beast, because some owners now have the right that it is workable for the stock-owner, the to mark both ears with registered earmarks. I police, the Minister and his officers. 536 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (2.31 p.m.): We saw pure.obred cattle in the Mary Valley being have listened to some very interesting con­ earmarked. The person I was working for tributions to this debate. So far as I am did not seem to believe in branding but he concerned, the most intere·sting part of the earmarked his cattle. There is a great deal measure is its apparent intention to try to do more to it in the case of pure"bred cattle. something to overcome certain problems Pedigrees are kept and each beast is given a associated wirh stock throughout the State. name. Somebody said it would be hard to The hon. member for Fassifern touched identify a beast if it did not have a brand on some very interesting points. I do not on it, but if you are on a dairy farm where intend to go over them, but somewhere there are 200 or 300 head of cattle and during my speech I might touch on one or poss·ibly 20 or 30 horses you can readily two of them. One of the most important identify almost every one of them. You points in connectrion with the branding of watch beasts grow up through their various stock is to make sure that men who are stage·s and as you see them in the paddocks, and have been on the land for many years perhaps coming in for milking, and so on, take the utmost care to brand their stock you give them names and get to know them in the correct manner. It appears that certain all. But that would not happen on the big difficulties, both today and in the past, stations. have been caused by the type of branding I agree with the hon. member for Fassifern done by certain stock-owners. that it does not matter whether a beast is As a result of experience I have had with branded or earmarked. The most common stock, it appears to me that horizontal or type of branding is by the use of a fire vertical branding is clearer and easier to brand-the branding iron is heated in an pick up, particularly from horse1back. I open fire. However, if somebody wants to should therefore imagine that outsized play around with that type of brand he can diagonal branding has been introduced do so, just as he can wirh an earmark. The because in some parts of the State cattle only experience I have had of tattoo brands are inspected by means other than horse­ has been in connection with pigs--ink back. It would be by either helicopter or stencilling or something of that nature. I light plane, which methods are used exten­ do not know whether it is used other than sively throughout the State where the in the pig industry. holdings are large. A great deal has been said about the I do not intend to discuss the position various things that can happen when cattle of big properties on which cattle are raised are away from their home property. It is the mainly for beef purposes. The experience responsibility of every man on the land who I intend to put before the Committee was has cattle, particularly dairy cattle, to feed acquired in the dairying industry. It is his stock. As the hon. member for Barcoo true that while it is not compulsory to said, when there is insufficient feed for stock brand stock, it was previously regarded as agistment has to be sought and, in some important that the brand should be registered. cases, it may be hundreds of miles from the I agree with the hon. member for Fassifern home property. Many things can happen that the age at which the branding takes when stock are being shifted backward and place is important. The hon. member sug­ forward and, just as at other times, calves gested eight or nine months as a suitable are born. Because the cattle are not on the time for branding, his reasons being quite home property the owner cannot carry out easy to understand if one has had experience normal branding procedures and it is then on the land. If stock are branded when that people can help themselves. This applies they are too small, by the time they develop also to cattle on stock routes and roadways. they will be carrying huge brands. In the Anywhere off the highways stock can be seen dairying industry they are usually branded grazing on the roads, particularly dairy herds. at about the yearling stage. Nobody seems to be very worried about branding horses As has been pointed out, if stock are until such time as it is necessary to muster branded there is little trouble with thieving. them, either to sort out good sta1lions or If they are not branded the responsibility perhaps to utilise the services of a veterinary rests with the owner to make sure that they surgeon. are not left unattended; somebody has to be with them continuously while they are grazing It is important that brands be applied in on the road. While herds are passing through the right places. My knowledge goes back a district it is not uncommon-either inten­ some years, but men with experience on the tionally or unintentionally-for stock belong­ land would a,gree that the most suitable place ing to other people to become part of the to brand a horse is on the shoulder-! forget herd. It is then that arguments start if the whether it is the near side or the off side­ stock are not properly branded or earmarked. where the mark is easily distinguishable. Cattle are usually branded as far back as The only other matter I should like the possible on the rump, where the· mark is Minister to clear up concerns the district easily distinguishable from horseback. brands referred to by the hon. member for Barcoo. There could be the various divisions Earmarking is nothing new, particularly in that he referred to, and the south-western and the dairying industry with pure"bred cattle central areas, and so on. Probably a number such as the Guernsey, Jersey, Ayrshire, and of names could be applied to the various Illawarra breeds. Even in pre-war days I districts. Brands Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 537

Mr. Row: Not for brands. Brands are for it simpler for a person on a horse to identify the whole State. The districts apply only to those cattle without having to yard them. earmarks for sheep and cattle and sheep People who have various strains of stock brands. Brands for horses and cattle apply need to have a quick method of identification throughout the State. by numbers, and the best place to put such identification is on the ribs, where it is easy Mr. NJEWTON: That clarifies the position to see and easy to apply. It could be argued a little. that that is the most valuable part of the Provided the measure does not impose hide. If it is already branded there, what further costs on the man on the land and more harm is done by putting a number there that its provisions are as outlined by the also? Probably only about 2 or 3 per cent. Minister, I am sure it will receive the support of dairymen would want to identify their of the Opposition. cattle by branding them on the ribs, and they should be· allowed to do so because there Mr. WHARTON (Burnett) (2.43 p.m.): I is no simpler means of identifi•cation. I rise to support the Bill because it is essential mention that point because I feel that it is to have a modern trend in legislation. We are a request that could be met in the light of. bringing this Act more into line with the "This won't hurt anybody and it might do practices commonly used in grazing and some good for a few." dairying areas. It seems to be a fairly simple measure; the provisions are in keeping with Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchin:brook-Minister what is necessary and there is nothing for Primary Industries) (2.50 p.m.), in reply: extreme in them. In the first place, I should like to thank hon. members for their contributions to The directory of brands is not referred to the debate. With the exception of a few very often. It is a costly publication. It is minor matters I do not think anything con­ in the interests of the farmers and the Gov­ troversial has been raised, and I think that ernment that it should be produced, but most hon. members are in general agreement without undue cost. with the principles of the Bill as outLined Cancellation of brands that are out of date, during my introductory speech. At the or not in use, is essential. There must be second-reading stage I intend to deal in many such brands. If we are to have a brand more detail with the points raised by hon. directory it should be up to date and in the members. modern concept. The producer is to be given The Leader of the Opposition was inclined time in which to seek the re-registration or to worry that the Bill would give added continuation of registration of his brand. authority to my department. I think that Under the Act, if a brand becomes out of is desirable. At times under the Act stock date it is cancelled. Once a person is notified inspectors have had difficulty in gaining by the Registrar that his brand is likely to be admission to properties for the purpose of de-registered, he has a chance to apply for inspecting and controlling stock, and I think its continuance. Liaison between the Registrar the Bill will do much to overcome this and the producer allows the producer to problem. The whole purpose of the legis­ present a case for the retention or otherwise lation is to provide greater control over of his brand. the illegal use of cattle. I assure the Leader The Minister spoke of some people having of the Opposition that it is not the intention several earmarks, and I was interested in of my department to harass people. In what the hon. member for Fassifern said these days of modern, fast transport, it is on this matter. At first I thought it was very necessary to have greater legal pro­ not a good idea to have several earmarks, tection in the inspection of stock. but my earmark is very similar to that of The Leader of the Opposition also my neighbour. Because a brand is not mentioned that he would like to be given always distinct, the only way to positively in my second-reading speech more particulars identify cattle is by the earmark, so an of new breeds of cattle developed for special owner wants to be sure about it. If a grazier purposes. Briefly, the new breeds are or dairyman has a brand in a particular mostly crosses between British breeds and district and has stock in various districts, his Brahman cattle, such as Droughtmasters. earmark could be similar to earmarks in Whilst opinions may differ among those who another district. In such a case he can apply are strong supporters of British breeds and to the Registrar for a more suitable earmark those who favour the exotic breeds, it is or one which would easily distinguish his nevertheless generally recognised that these stock from those of his neighbour. crosses have a very important role to play in the future of the industry. Their numbers The Minister mentioned the numbering of are increasing rapidly on the coastal strips dairy cattle so that they could be identified of Queensland, particularly north from easily. This amendment provides that if Marlborough. cattle are branded on the ribs, a number may also be put onto the beast above or below The Leader of the Opposition mentioned the brand. This is something that has been that the fact that the Act has been in force advocated in my neck of the woods. If it is since 1872 and has not required much to obtain simpler identification, why not amendment indicates its strength. As a make it simple? Several branders have a matter of fact, one or two amendments have registered position. This proposal is to make been kept in mind for some time, and the 538 Brands Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill opportunity has now been taken by my belong to the estate of a deceased person, and department and the Parliamentary Draftsman so on. The Registrar assures me that he has in to re-phrase a few sections in accordance hand measures to correct this situation. He with modern legal phraseology. has this year called for a return of all brands and will require further return'S to be sub­ The hon. member for Townsville South mitted in 1966 and 1967. After that, any had quite a lot to say about distortion of brand found not to be in use may be brands, catNe duffing, and, generally speaking, cancelled and re-issued. the application of the criminal law. Most offences under the Brands Acts are dealt Mr. Dnggan: What period usually elapses with by the Police Department. He ·before a brand is re-issued? also mentioned his concern because cattle numbers have not noticeably increased for Mr. ROW: About five years, usually, many years. There has been, however, before a brand or an earmark is re-issued. a steady but slow increase in the numbers As a rule, it is not re-issued in the same of cattle slaughtered over the years and district. It is issued in a district distant from the tonnage of meat produced. My advisers that in which it was issued originally because tell me that they expect quite rapid increases cattle seven to 10 years of age could be .as a result of pasture improvement, herd carrying the old brand . improvement, and the general application The hon. member for Barcoo made a of good husbandry. It is interesting to number of good points. I must agree that note that for the 11 months up to May of this I was concerned when I heard of horses year 1,323,600 adult cattle were slaughtered, used by the stock squad being taken from producing a total of 275,863 tons of meat. Of tick areas to clean areas. I assure him that course, drought conditions are largely respon­ these horses must conform to the tick re·gula­ sible for those figures. Last year, however, tions, and I will take steps to see that this cattle slaughtered in Queensland for export and is insisted upon. home consumption totalled about 1,000,000. I cannot be certain of that figure, but, if my The hon. member mentioned the brands memory serves me right, it is approximately directory and the fact that there had been correct. The point that I make is that a delay in reprinting it. Its reprinting has whilst cattle numbers remain somewhat been delayed because the printer is so busy static at 6,000,000, the turn-off of beef is and because of the cost. It is some years increasing. That is evidence that cattle are since the brands directory was re-issued. As being slaughtered at an earlier age. At I said earlier, the monthly Gazette does the Brisbane Exhibition we saw some very contain details of brands and earmarks that good examples of cattle slaughtered at about are registered or trans-ferred. two years of age and about 500 lb. dressed The question of compulsory branding as weight. As I said, they are growing more opposed to voluntary branding is not an quickly, and t.l-te exotic breeds of cattle are easy one to answer. I believe that making playing an important part in this. branding compulsory would involve many The hon. member for Clayfield made a people who own, say, one horse, one pony, number of very interesting points. He or one cow. Not only would they have to referred particularly to cattle duffing. To brand their pets or the animals they use meet this problem, new provisions are being around the home; they would also have to introduced to give increased powers of apply for a brand, thus creating difficulties inspection-this also answers a statement by for the Registrar in issuing brands. the Leader of the Opposition-with power to Mr. O'Donnell: I think I said that I did enter and leave a property as often as not know how you could resolve it. necessary with assistants and equipment, added powers to muster and yard stock and Mr. ROW: That is so. to stop and inspect travelling stock, and In the wide spaces of Queensland, where power to compel the owner, on the authority properties cover many square miles, it is of the Minister, to muster and hold stock. easy to miss cattle, either intentionally or These are all very effective methods of unintentionally. With compulsory branding, controlling the illegal use of cattle. the result would be that if those cattle were The stock inspectors of the Department of not branded within a certain time the owner Primary Industries are doing a very good would be committing an offence. job, and we receive a great deal of assistance As a point of interest to hon. members, I from police officers in various areas where should like to indicate the procedure in other we have no stock inspectors stationed. The·se States as a basis of comparison. New South police officers issue waybills and permits, and Wales, South Australia and Tasmania adopt I take this opportunity of thanking them, the same principle as Queensland. It is not on behalf vf my department, for the very compulsory for a stock-owner to use a brand good job they are doing. but if he desires to use one he must register it before commencing to use it. In Victoria The hon. member for Clayfield also it is "open slather"; that State has no system ·expressed some concern arbout the large of registration of brands. number of brands that are not available for re-issue. Many of them have not been in Mr. Muller: But they take the risk if use for a considerable period because they they do not brand. Brands Acts (21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 539

Mr. ROW: That is right; they take the earmarks. That has been rather a conten­ risk. tious matter and one about which I myself In Western Australia, from information was somewhat concerned. As hon. members available at this stage, the use of horse and will appreciate, the point has arisen in some cattle brands, as well as sheep brands, is cases because the only people who are using compulsory. Animals must be branded three earmarks are owners of stud properties. before a certain age, which is stipulated for It is felt that, with the increased usage of certain areas. The legislation provides for cattle other than stud cattle-special breeds branding, and for re-branding within one of cattle-some consideration should be month of purchase. The Northern Territory given to the definition of these particular Act requires that no person shall have in breeds. A man with three properties in a his possession any cattle or horses of or district may require a different earmark for each property. In winter, when a brand is over the age of eight months- easily obscured by hair, the identification of (a) which are outside the boundaries an animal is usually by the earmark. of the run of the owner of the cattle or The Registrar will have to be fully con­ horses; or vinced that there is some warrant for a (b) outside the boundaries of the run person to be issued with three earmarks. It on which the cattle or horses ordinarily was with some reluctance that I agreed to depasture, this provision, but after discussing the matter fully with him I felt that there was just and which are without brands. So, it is com­ reasonable cause for it. The Minister, pulsory to brand in Western Australia and on the recommendation of the Registrar, will the Northern Territory. still have the right to refuse to issue a brand or earmark to any person who he does not Mr. McKeclmie: That would be very diffi­ think is a fit and proper person. That provi­ cult here at the present time. sion is in the existing Act. I think that Mr. ROW: Of course. Mr. Clarke, the present Registrar of Brands, knows the game pretty well. He can be relied I appreciate the difficulties of the gentle­ upon to give full consideration to any person men whose names were mentioned in or group of persons that makes application connection with Arcadia. Unfortunately, as for more than one earmark within a district, the hon. member for Fassifern mentioned, having regard to the fact that only one brand the impounding of cattle is a difficult matter has been issued. I suggest that hon. members and presents many problems. Under section rely on the discretion and wise guidance of 16 of the Stock Act there is provision for the Registrar. the mustering of brumby horses on a The hon. member for Belmont spoke of the property but there is no provision in either age at which a beast should be branded. the Stock Act or the Brands Act for the That is rather difficult. One cannot alter the mustering of unbranded cattle. It is a very size of a brand, but if a beast is branded difficult point to overcome. Of course, the when it is very young the brand will expand Local Authorities Act provides for impound­ as the animal grows. In some of the pastoral ing but I appreciate the difficulties of areas, if an owner does not brand as soon as impounding cattle. I can assure hon. mem­ a calf is dropped somebody else brands it for bers that I have experienced some of them him. So one cannot very well define the age at which a beast should be branded. myself. The existing Act contains provisions about The hon. member for Fassifern accused the position of brands. For horses, six posi­ me of not giving very much clarification of tions are prescribed, referred to respectively the real points of the Bill. I thought his as the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and assimilation of my remarks on the main pur­ sixth positions. When anyone cross-brands, if port of the Bill was very clear~ However, I there is no room in the position of the will be happy to discuss with him at a later existing brand he must go to the next posi­ date any points that he thinks should be tion. There are four branding positions for clarified because he has always been a real cattle. You must brand on the one side contributor to debates such as this. He men­ only. The idea of that is to preserve the tioned straying stock and the prosecutions quality of the hide. It can be on either side we have had under the Criminal Code. For of the beast, but once you start to brand on his information, there is no alteration in the one side you have to continue on the same existing size of brands. They still cannot side in the four positions defined-neck, be any more than 2-!- inches or any less than rump or thigh, ribs and shoulder. H- inches for three-piece brands or less than Mr. Muller: What would you do when you 1t inches or more than 3 inches for symbol use a symbol brand? brands. The measurement is taken on the vertical depth of the brand. If we have a Mr. ROW: A specified position for use of brand 1 W W-horizontal, the W-horizontal a symbol brand on previously branded animals can be more than 2t inches. It is the normal may be allotted by the Registrar of Brands. vertical measurement that this amendment The hon. member for Burnett made some takes care of. interesting points. He mentioned the cancella­ A point about which the hon. member tion of brands and the issue of not more than was concerned was the registration of three three earmarks-matters that I have already 540 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

dealt with. His main point was the numbering wide powers to inspectors to supervise move­ of dairy cattle on the ribs. This was done at ments of stock and test them for disease, the request of the dairying industry. Under and to quarantine and treat infected or the present Act it would have to be under the suspected animals. It can be claimed fairly existing brand. The Bill provides that where that the Stock Acts are the main bulwark cattle are branded on the ribs, they can be against the introduction into Queensland of numbered either beneath the brand or above disease from other States and territories, it. and the spread of disease within the State. I thank hon. members for their contribu­ From time to time is becomes necessary tions. to amend the Acts to bring them into line Motion (Mr. Row) agreed to. with the latest scientific information available on disease control and good husbandry Resolution reported. practice. Further, where administration of the Acts has been found to be unnecessarily FIRST READING irksome to stock-owners, or out of touch Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Row, with changing industry practices, every read a first time. effort is made to correct such deficiencies. For these several reasons, the Acts are STOCK ACTS AMENDMENT BILL now due for some revision. The chief amendments in the Bill relate to- INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Insertion in the Act of a list of notifiable (Mr. Hodges, Gympie, in the chair) diseases; Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook-Minister The authority of the Minister to enter for Primary Industries) (3.13 p.m.): I move- into agreements with private veterinary surgeons for the carrying out of tuberculin "That a Bill be introduced to amend the testing of dairy cattle and other veterinary Stock Acts, 1915 to 1960, in certain services; par.ticulars." The bases upon which assessments may As at the end of March, 1964, the livestock be levied on milk and cream for the populations of Queensland were approxi­ financing of the tuberculosis eradication mately- project; Sheep 24,000,000 The purposes for which moneys may be Beef cattle 6,000,000 disbursed from the compensation fund; Dairy cattle 1,000,000 Pigs 390,000 The seizure and destruction of infected or suspected meat introduced from other The gross value of production of the live­ States; stock industries (including the poultry industry) for the year 1963-64 was approxi­ The remedying of certain defects in the mately £180,000,000. It is clear from these law relating to permits and wa)llbills for figures that the protection of our livestock travelling stock; and from disease, and its natural consequence of The licensing o.f pet shops. lowered production, is a task of the greatest Section 3 of the Acts contains a list of importance. diseases in stock. Some of them are already Australia is very fortunate indeed in bemg present in Australia, while others have not free from a number of diseases that exist yet found their way into this country. in other parts of the world. Some of these, Section 23 makes it obligatory for an for example, foot and mouth disease and owner of stock to report within two days rabies, exist very close to us-in South-east of his discovering it the appearance of any Asia-and it is mainly due to our strict of the prescrrbed diseases in his stock. In quarantine measures that we have been able many cases such action is unnecessary as to keep them from entering this country. the list of diseases includes some that make Our livestock would be very vulnerable to their appearance in certain areas of the State exotic diseases and the country's veterinary at more or less regular intervals. These authorities are constantly on the watch for include cattle tick and mastitis which, unfor­ any strange disease. tunately, have to be accepted for the present Quite apart from exotic diseases, however, as part of the general pattern of livestock Queensland has a constant problem with raising in Queensland. endemic diseases, such as cattle tick and In addition to the present list of diseases pleuro-pneumonia. The former is estimated it is intended to insert a special list of to cost this State at least £10,000,000 per notifiable diseases, which will include a year. Fortunately, the national project for number of exotic diseases such as foot and the eradication of pleuro-pneumonia is mouth disease, rabies, and rinderpest. succeeding beyond expectations and the Section 23 is to be amended to make it disease is steadily being brought under obligatory for registered veterinary surgeons control. In many areas it has been virtually eliminated. and stock-owners to report the occurrence of any notifiable disease within 48 hours of The control of stock diseases in Queens­ its being diagnosed. It is felt that the land is exercised through the provisions of amendments will give greater overall control the Stock Acts which, of necessity, give of disease, and, at the same time, relieve Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 541

stock-owners of the irksome responsibility paid into the fund, and the purposes for of having to report the appearance of which payments from the fund may be made. common diseases. In the proposed amendment these are set Section 4 of the Acts authorises the forth more clearly, and they also take Minister to enter into agreements with cognisance of the matters I have already registered veterinary surgeons, and to appoint mentioned with respect to section 4 of the them as approved veterinary surgeons, mainly Acts relating to agreements between the for the purpose of testing dairy cattle under Minister and private veterinary surgeons. the tuberculosis eradication project, which It is also proposed to authorise payments is financed by the levying of assessments on from the compensation fund for the improve­ milk and cream supplied in prescribed areas, ment through artificial insemination of dairy and to prescribed factories. Moneys so cattle of producers paying assessments into received are paid into the Stock Diseases the fund. It is felt that artificial insemina­ Compensation Fund established under seclion tion holds out such great advantages to the 6A of the Acts. dairy industry that the expenditure of portion The principal purpose of the compensation of producer-contrrbuted funds to assist its fund is the payment of testing costs and of development is justifiable. In fact, Cabinet compensation for dairy cattle that are has already approved certain payments from destroyed because they are affected with the compensation fund for this purpose, and tuberculosis. a clause of the Bill validates such action. However, in recent years, in response to Section 7 A of the Acts relates to the levying requests from groups of producers, my pre­ of assessments on milk and cream for the decessors and I have agreed to the levying financing of the tuberculosis eradication of special assessments, over and above the project and other purposes. The section as assessments levied for tuberculin testing, it exists sets out the nature of supplies that for the purpose of financing veterinary may be assessed, the basis on which assess­ mileage projects in certain areas. ments may be levied, the persons who are to pay assessments, and the procedures for pay­ Under these projects, moneys received ment of same. from the special assessments are paid into the compensation fund and used to defray Until recently, butter factories have the cost to the producers concerned of mile­ calculated payments to cream suppliers on age run by private veterinary surgeons in the basis of the actual amount of butter providing services other than tuberculin manufactured therefrom. Assessments on testing. Such services, of course, are cream were levied on the same basis. How­ restricted to farm animals and do not apply ever, some factories now pay suppliers on to the treatment orf pets. Appropriate agree­ the butter-fat content of cream, and in at ments have been entered into with a numbe-r least one instance a factory receiving milk of veterinary surgeons, and in all cases a has adopted that basis also. The section is a maximum mileage has been fixed com­ being amended to bring it into line with mensurate with the amount of special assess­ industry practice, and opportunity is being ments received from the producer group taken to re-state in clearer terms the various concerned. The projects have operated very bases on whioh assessments may be levied. well, and I envisage that with the passage of When this section was first placed in the time more and more groups of producers Acts assessments were levied in respect of will seek the introduction of such projects milk supplied for consumption in the city to their areas. of Brisbane only. Wholesale vendors and I also consider that the projects will ice-cream manufacturers were required to probably be extended to embrace special pay assessments on milk received by them services such as strain 19 inoculation for to the Brisbane Milk Board. Owners of protection against brucellosis and treatment factories and other persons were required for infertility diseases. The latter cause to pay assessments on their supplies direct serious losses in production of dairy cattle to the then Department of Agriculture and and are an impediment to the complete Stock. In all cases the assessments were to success of artificial insemination in many be deducted from moneys due to suppliers herds. However, the Acts as they stand at for their produce. present are not framed to meet such con­ Over the years, with the extension of the tingencies in the future. tuberculosis project to include country areas, Acting on the advice of the Solicitor­ assessments were levied on cream supplied General, they are •being amended to clarify to certain prescribed butter factories and on the authority of the Minister to enter into milk supplied for consumption or use in agreements with private veterinary surgeons various towns. and define their duties and responsibilities under such agreements. In all such agree­ The milk supply to the city of Brisbane ments the prime consideration will be the has increased tremendously, and supplies welfare of the producers whose contributions are now drawn directly from 13 different finance the projects concerned. country factories. Of these, four still pay assessments on their supplies to the Milk As I have already mentioned, section 6A Board for transmission to the Department of as it exists relates to the establishment of Primary Industries, while the remaining nine the compensation fund, the moneys to be pay their assessments direct to the depart- 542 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill ment. At the request of the board, sup­ this was intended to mean that when the ported by the Auditor-General, the section actual owner of travelling stock was not the is being amended to relieve the board of drover, he was required to provide his drover responsibility for collecting any assess­ with the necessary papers before allowing ments and to make them all payable in him to commence his journey. With the future to the department. In effect, all 13 passage of time the original meaning became factories will now pay direct to the depart­ obscured, and of late years the drover has ment. In the process, the section will be generally been held responsible for providing shortened considerably and simplified. himself with permit and waybill. The In order to prevent the spread of disease, section is being amended to restore its section 9A of the Acts provides for the original meaning. To further clarify the seizure of stock introduced into Queensland situation, a new definition of "actual owner" in contravention of its requirements. If the is being inserted in the Acts and section 19 proper health certificates in relation to such is being re-drafted in a more concise and stock are not forthcoming within a specified clearer form. time, the stock may be destroyed. Fortu­ For a number of years stock-owners in nately, it has never been necessary to destroy certain areas have been allowed to travel any stock under these provisions, but I am "bobby" calves to market without permits. sure that all hon. members agree that the provisions should be in the Acts for the This concession has applied only in areas protection of our flocks and herds. where there was no risk of the spread of disease and did not apply to movements On the other hand, during the outbreak of calves from tick-infested country to of swine fever in New South Wales in recent clean areas. On the other hand, farmers years, there were occasions when pig meats have never been required to obtain travel were introduced into Queensland from that State without the necessary health certifi­ permits for pigs or poultry. All the cates. On these occasions the provisions of animals mentioned, however, are classed as the Stock Acts with regard to the seizure "stock" under the Acts, and, as I have men­ and destruction of carcass meats were found tioned already, permits are necessary under to be deficient, and my department was both sections 18 and 19 to travel any class severely handicapped in dealing with the of stock. To regularise the practice referred situation. Section 12 of the Acts is being to, a new section 19A is being inserted in amended to rectify this weakness, and the the Acts to authorise the Governor in seizure of suspect carcasses will be placed Council to declare that the provisions of on the same footing as the seizure of suspect sections 18 and 19 shall not apply to certain stock. classes of stock either in the State as a whole or in prescribed areas. The existing sections 18 and 19 of the Acts relate to procedures to be adopted in Section 25A of the Acts deals with the applying for permits to travel stock and the testing of dairy cattle under the tuberculosis responsibilities of owners and drovers with eradication project. As I mentioned earlier, respect to permits and waybills. Under this project is financed by assessments on milk section 18, for a number of years stock­ and cream. Sometimes an individual producer owners have been able to obtain special refuses to pay such assessments on his pro­ permits to travel their stock to and from duce. In such a case it is essential that the neighbouring holdings for the purposes of testing of his dairy cattle be continued for the feeding or watering them. general success of the project. The section is being amended to enable the Department of Mr. Muller: Dipping? Primary Industries to charge a special testing Mr. ROW: That will be brought in fee for such a herd when the owner con­ now; it was not covered before. cerned is more than six months in arrears with the payment of assessments. Recently, stock-owners have requested that the use of these special permits be extended Section 26A of the Acts provides for the to cover dipping and spraying for cattle-tick control of movements of persons and animals control. The permits were usually made in areas declared by the Governor in Council usable for periods of three or six months and to be infected areas. Such control is specially were introduced to save stock-owners the necessary to prevent the spread of disease inconvenience of applying for a permit to such as foot and mouth disease and rabies. cover each separate movement. However, The section as it stands relates to movements some doubt has been raised as to the of animals and persons "into, through or authority of inspectors to issue such special from infected areas." To widen the applica­ permits under the provisions of section 18 tion of the section it is being amended to as it exists. The section is being amended include control of movements "within" to authorise inspectors to issue such permits infected areas. If there is an outbreak of foot for feeding, watering, dipping, or spraying and mouth disease in a certain area, the of stock and for any other purpose incidental movement of stock within that area can be to the practice of good animal husbandry. controlled. Provision is also being made for prescribing the restraint and supervision to Under section 19, every drover of stock which animals may be made subject in an is required to be provided with a permit and infected area. For example, it would be waybill for stock in his charge. Originally necessary in the proper control of an outbreak Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 543 of rabies for all dogs in the area to be What distressed me more than anything muzzled as well as having restrictions placed else about this measure was hearing that upon their movements. the department is obligated to enter into arrangements with private veterinarians to The Acts at present provide for the control carry out certain inspections. I feel that and supervision of boarding kennels for cats th_ere mus~ be something wrong somewhere ~nd dogs. Such premises are licensed and With the mducements and training offered mspectors are authorised to inspect them to to veterinary surgeons in this State. I do se~ that they conform to certain requirements not know what the deficiency is at the with respect to accommwever, will _still be required to For all jobs in the community, whether comply With the law With respect to hygiene it is work on the wharf, coal-mining, teaching and _the general welfare of animals held or nursing, the rate of pay is determined therem. by the ability to provide service. If there is a shortage of professional people, tradesmen or Oppor~unity is also being taken to make ordinary workers, obviously people in those some mmor amendments to the Acts to groups can bargain more extensively for their correct anomalies that have appeared with services. The inducements need to be suffici­ the p~ssage of time, to insert some new ently attractive to encourage people to defimtwns, and to re-state certain parts in ~ecome veterinary surgeons. Our economy clearer form. IS so dependent on the services of veterinary surgeons that I think the department should Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ extend a special effort to make up the L~ader of the Opposition) (3.34 p.m.): This deficiency in numbers. I do not like the Bill follows the general pattern of the Brands idea of having constantly to go outside to Acts Amendment Bill which the Minister get people on a part-time basis. The more ~rought down earlier today. The Minister we do that the less inducement there will be listed amendments to deal with the control for people to embrace a career in the Public of s~o~k d!seases, methods of financing the admmistrative . arrangements, and the pattern Service. While we continue to give this of the regulatiOns that are so necessary. It work to people outside it becomes increas­ ingly difficult to attract people either by way s~!ms remarkable that, despite all our scien­ tmc knowledge, all the new druas and all the of fellowships or-- research faciliti~s available, it i~ ~ecessary to Mr. Chinchen: Do you want to socialise ke~p on amendmg regulations to provide for stncter control measures in regard to live­ them all? stock. Mr. DUGGAN: That is typical of the . The Minister has been very keen to empha­ thinking of the hon. member. It is similar Sise the value of the livestock industry to to what is happening at the present time Que~nsland because he seems to have quoted in Great Britain. Because of the muck being preCI~ely t~e ~ame production figures as he t~rown by people of the same political mentioned m mtroducing the previous Bill. kidney as the hon. member, there is talk of devaluing the £1, which the Tories hope Mr. Row: I have added the figures for will happen. The hon. member does the poultry and pigs. same sort of thing here. He immediately comes in with this talk of socialism. We Mr. DUGGAN: I thought there was hear talk about prices coming down as a something added. result of healthy competition in private 544 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

enterprise, but instead prices have gone up I am pleased to see the Government more in Queensland than anywhere else in accepting its heavy responsibility to take the Commonwealth. every possible stringent measure to prevent The hon. member is talking now about any of these dire diseases occurring in the need to socialise veterinary surgeons. Queensland. From time to time many That is not the philosophy of the Australian visitors complain about Australia's very strict Labour Party at all. What I am saying is quarantine regulations. However, I think that every effort should be made to fill experience has proved that we have been wise these positions in the Public Service rather in enforcing very strict prohibitions. I think than make greater use of outside people. most of our livestock diseases have been All I get from the hon. member is that we imported, perhaps through careless quaran­ are going to socialise them. What I am tine regulations. Probably it was not saying is that a greater effort should be made expected that they would find conditions so by offering more fellowships to attract suitable for their thriving in this country, people to the Public Service. but we have had many problems which have lVir. Chinchen: The American consultants been very costly. I will not enumerate them proved to be cheaper than those employed all but, to name a few, I cite the rabbit, by the State. the fox, and hyacinth. I could name a hundred and one such pests that have been Mr. DUGGAN: The same sort of thing is introduced. The main one seems to have being said now. 'Ehe hon. member for been pleuro-pneumonia, and the cattle tick is Y eronga, an earth-moving contractor, said another. I had hoped to look quickly at the that more work should be given to private report to determine the extent to which we earth-moving contractors for main roads have been able to control the spread of the construction. I do not wish to be personal, tick, but I was unable to do so. About five but we do not see many e·ngineers driving or six years ago there was a great fear round in Mark X Jaguars whereas some that the buffalo fly would come further down. earth-moving contractors do so. They also He seemed to be advancing ve·ry steadily and seem to want to increase their opportunity strongly. to do so. Mr. Row: The weather controls him. I believe that the Government should pay a fair price, but when there is a shortage of Mr. DUGGAN: That seems to be so. experts the Government is caught by the With all the new drugs and so on, it was throat. I realise that after the war the to be hoped that we could show some measure Labour Government had to farm out much of improvement in control. The Minister work to outside architects. However, it is may be able to enlighten me. We have a long time since the war ended. On the virtually lost some areas which became tick Minister's admission there is apparently a areas, such as Helidon and Ravensbourne. very great shorta:ge of veterinarians and, as They were controlled some time ago. It is this State is so dependent upon livestock, I regrettable that these things are happening. think this aspect of the matter should be The proposals appear to be desirable. given special attention by the Government. Funds will be created to provide additional No-one will quarrel with the Minister's services, mostly relating to the notification desire to see that no opportunity is left for of diseases and the increasing use of artificial the introduction of diseases that are likely insemination. I think that a good artificial to cause serious losses or the decimation of insemination service has been provided. our flocks and herds. However, he probably Obviously the semen is of high quality and drew the long bow about foot and mouth must result in improving the quality of our disease and rabies. He probably mentioned livestock. them to shock us into an acceptance of Briefly stated, the proposals deal with these increased controls. I do not think the notification of diseases, agreements with we have had any instances of foot and private veterinary surgeons, levies on milk mouth disease or rabies. and cream for financing these services, and M1·. Hiley: Thank goodness! If they do increased control measures over the importa­ occur it will be the end of Australia. tion of suspected inferior carcasses such as the pigmeat that came into Queensland from Mr. DUGGAN: I am not criticising the New South Wales. Those things seem to Minister. We have a very happy relation­ be desintble and necessary. Do the pro­ ship with him. He is happy to see every­ hibitions mentioned by the Minister conflict body. We do not wish to quarrel with section 92 of the Commonwealth Con­ unnecessarily with him. I just mention that stitution? he seemed to emphasise foot and mouth Mr. Row: I think the health aspects would disease and ra:bies. prevail. Mr. Ailiens: As a boy, I suffered from Mr. Muller: Do you approve of the tax foot and mouth dise·ase-no boots, and on milk and cream? nothing to eat. Mr. DUGGAN: I think that dairymen Mr. DUGGAN: That probably accounts have had a pretty rough time. The Minister for the hon. member's extensive knowledge has not indicated what the levies are likely of what he describes as dog-and-goanna to be, so I shall reserve comment on that rules. matter. Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 545

Somebody on the radio last night said in the industry but competent to speak on how efficient the dairy industry is. Because it, who are of the opinion that the dairying of our conditions, we do not seem to have industry-in Queensland, at any rate-is the same production as other parts of the responsible for most of its own problems Commonwealth, and costs are much higher and troubles. This Government-and per­ here. Some members of the Government haps the Commonwealth Government, too­ who do not seem to be greatly concerned has continually bolstered up dairying at the about the decline of the dairy industry claim expense of the taxpayer in order to maintain that things have to find their own level. an industry that is not as efficient and pro­ But, as the hon. member for Fassifern ficient as it should, and could, be. knows, no fewer than 1,000 people have left the dairy industry in the last four or Mr. Muller: That is just a lot of rot. five years. Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member for Mr. Muller: They were not able to bear Fassifern knows the dairying industry from the additional taxes. the point of view of a dairyman and, natur­ ally, it is possible to assume that he may Mr. DUGGA..l\T: I quite agree. I have be unconsciously biased on the side of said on many occasions that of all primary dairymen. I have read numerous articles producers, dairymen are least a:ble to meet by many men who know what they are talk­ increased costs, taxes, excises, and freights, ing about, and they say that if dairymen in which are part and parcel of modern living, Queensland would clean up their own stable and they cannot pass them on. The Opposi­ and get rid of the inefficient ones in it, and tion would like to study the Bill to see if they would buy better cattle, look after exactly what is proposed by the Minister !heir pastures and water supplies, and do in regard to the levy. things that should be done and are being The technical alterations that are to be done in other countries, the dairying industry made are timely and necessary. As with in Queensland would not be in its present human diseases, we must at all times have plight. the most up-to-date technical and scientific Mr. Muller: Why don't you have a go? methods available to combat diseases in our livestock. Any steps taken to produce that Mr. AIKENS: If I did, I would probably result must have the general approbation make as big a mess of it as did the hon. of this Chamber. member for Fassifern. However, I am not trying to be personal, and that was quite a As the hon. member for Fassifern pointed facetious remark because I understand that out, levies should be made the subject of the hon. member does as well as he can. a detailed examination to discover whether they are to be borne by the general com­ Let us look at one of the smallest coun­ munity at large. Many services are supplied tries in Europe; it is about as big as your by the State, and this could come within that electorate, Mr. Hedges. I refer to Denmark. category. It cannot be claimed that only It has, I suppose, 10 times as many dairy the people whose children go to school are cattle as there are in Queensland, and each taxed to provide education. Education is a cow in Denmark produces 10 times as much charge on the whole community. There are milk with about 10 times as much butterfat many other amenities provided by the as do dairy cows in Queensland. If a small Government the costs of which me borne country such as Denmark can put us to by the general taxpayer. It is probably shame, surely we should be big enough to not too much to say that some of these take a broadminded look at the dairying charges could be charges on the community industry from the sidelines and say, "Why generally rather than on the industry only. can't the dairying industry in Queensland do I feel, however, that, where there is ability as good a job as the dairying industry in to pay, proper charges should be made for Denmark?"-or Holland, the United States, the services rendered. If the charges are or any other country. fair, I think that those in the industry, I advise the hon. member for Fassifern to like everybody else, would probably have go into the Library and obtain from the to face up to their liability. I shall reserve Librarian books that tell the plain, unvar­ fu~ther comments till the second-reading nished story of what Denmark and other stage. countries have done and are doing, and then Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (3.50 compare those efforts with what is being p.m.): I should like to direct a few remarks done by dairymen in Queensland. to the provisions of the Bill that deal with Mr. Muller: I get my knowledge from the dairying industry and to say that over practice, not from books. a number of years many tales of woe have been told in this Chamber about the predica­ Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member for ment of dairymen. I have tried to make Fassifern says he gets his knowledge from myself as conversant as possible with their practice and I am sure it is a fairly exten­ plight. I have read everything that I have sive knowledge. But, when all is said and been able to find on the subject and have done, he cannot live in a little ivory tower, listened to all who I think have some which is what I am afraid all the dairymen authority to speak on the subject. There in Queensland are doing, and say, "Never seem to be many men, not actually engaged mind what dairymen in other countries are 18 546 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill doing. We are not concerned with that. I think we should pay a very heartfelt \Ve are not concerned with the manner in tribute to the people whose job it is to see which they have improved their herds, pas­ that diseases such as these do not come tures and techniques. To hell with them. into the country. However, I wish to draw We are concerned only with battling along in attention to the fact that while they may Queensland as best we can, and, when we get order the destruction of a bird, a dog, a into a pickle, we run to the Legislature and cat, or something else that someone may ask to be pulled out of our financial mess." try to bring into the country, because they The hon. member for Fassifern, by his inter­ fear that it might bring in rabies, rinderpest, jections, has proved to the hilt, I believe, foot and mouth disease, or some the tmth of what I have been trying to say. other disease, they are not being as careful as they should be with the Mr. MuUer: The only thing that I am people who come into this country. I do objecting to is a further tax on the industry. not know how the spores of foot and mouth disease or rinderpest or rabies are carried, Mr. AIKJENS: The hon. member does not but I believe that they may be carried in object to a further tax on the taxpayer in the soil. Not very long ago I met a order to keep the industry alive. journalist who had been to South-east Asia. He had been in Vietnam and other places lVlr. Muller: Those in the industry pay in the East, and he got a lift from there both. to Darwin in a military aircraft. He said to me, "Because I got the lift in a hurry, Mr. AIKJENS: They may pay both, but I got on the plane just as I was, after although, as an ordinary, average citizen of tramping through the muddy fields, and I Queensland, I am quite prepared to make landed in Darwin with inches of soil on a reasonaoble contribution to the maintenance the soles of my boots." He E~aid, "For all of the dairying industry or any other indus­ I know, the mud that I brought into this try that is necessary for the economy of country on the soles of my boots could the State, it seems to me that the dairymen have been lousy with the spores of the go running to the taxpayers every time they animal diseases that we are so eager to want any assistance. I do not know how prevent from entering Australia. I walked much Australran taxpayers are paying off the plane. No-one checked me. They already by means of the butter bounty; I had a cursory look at my luggage, but they think about £14,000,000 a year is being poured into the dairying industry through did not have a look at my clothes. For the butter bounty. There is no butter bounty all they knew, my clothes could have been in Denmark; there is no butter bounty in impregnated with the wogs of the diseases." Holland; there is no butter bounty in the Therefore, although I join with the Minis­ United States. There is no butter bounty ter in paying a well-deserved compliment in any country that has tackled the problem to the people whose job it is to keep these of improving the efficiency of the dairying diseases out, I want to say that, as a result industry. It is high time we took similar of what I have heard, I do not think enough action here. I know that I will be blasted attention is being paid to the people who by dairymen who will say that I do not know come into this country and who may anything about the dairying industry. On innocently be carrying these diseases with the practical side, I concede that I do not them. A number of New Australians have know much about it; but I know which end complained to me that if they come to of a cow to go to milk her, which is Australia in a migrant ship and bring with probably more than hon. members repre­ them some salame sausage or other food senting metropoliran electorates know. They from their own country, it is immediately would probably put the 1bucket under the seized by the authorities and taken from cow's udder and pump the tail up and them beoause the authorities are afraid that down. I know a little bit more than they it may contain spores or wogs of an animal do, although it may not be much more. disease that they are anxious to keep out Mr. Hanson interjected. of Australia. It is taken from them because we have been afraid that it might contain Mr. AIKJENS: I do know this: when the germs, or the spores, or the wogs of they cannot make their dairying project some particuJ.ar animal disease that we are efficient and earn a reasonable financial very anxious to keep out of this country. return, they turn to beef-raising and cattle­ Yet the authorities do not pay very much fattening. attention to the clothes or the boots of the migrants themselves. I know it is possible Let me turn now to the part of the Bill to prevent a migrant from carrying infected that deals with the introduction of disease mud on his boots for the five or six weeks from overseas. If we are decent Queens­ of the trip by ship, but the authorities do landers and Australians, we must all fear not pay very much attention to the olothes the coming into this country of foot and or boots of migrants who get off planes at mouth disease, rinderpest, and other diseases Darwin. Many of the migrants from that have decimated herds in countries countries where these diseases are prevalent overseas. They would surely decimate our come into Australia through the Darwin herds in this country because our cattle have airport, yet no particular attention is being not built up any immunity to them. paid to their clothes or boots. Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 547

With regard to cattle in this country, and Mr. AIKENS: That is so, and he maintains particularly in Queensland, I shall not that unless we grapple with the dog problem recapitulate what I said on the previous Bill, it is useless talking about improved pastures, namely, that unfortunately, although one fencing, water, and so forth. Then he goes could put Great Britain into Cape York on to say, as those of us who know any­ Peninsula, there are not as many cattle in thing about the cattle industry realise, that Queensland as there are in Great Britain. dogs are robbing the State of countless A lot of argument is put forward from time thousands_ of beasts a year. We know that to time as to what we should do about to be true, and we know also that baiting various diseases and pmblems that arise in and trapping are useless as an adequate our pastoral industry. I remember reading control. Dogs, like human beings, become an article by Mr. J. Bate of the Common­ more cunning the longer they live. They wealth Food and Agriculture Committee, breed cunning into their young. who said that we could carry five times Mr. Muller: They are not as cunning as as many cattle per acre if every grazier some of the people in Parliament. embraced the first simple findings of the C.S.LR.O. researches at Landsdown Research Mr. AIKENS: If all dogs were as naive, Station, near Woodstock. simple and credulous as I am they would not be very hard to eliminate. Mr. Muller: He is another theorist. Perhaps an even bigger problem than the Mr. All\.ENS: He may be a theorist. dog is the cattle tick. Let us face it; we His theory is all right so far as pasture have had cattle ticks in this country for improvement and that sort of thing is con­ many years and all that we have done is cerned, but he forgets that when we are to evolve a dip concentrate which we either spray onto cattle or pour into a dip through talking about raising cattle ~and increasing the numbers of our herds and combating which we drive cattle. We must realise diseases that affect cattle, many of these that all the dipping and all the spraying theorists from the university and armchair does no more than hold the tick at bay. graziers forget the lessons they could learn Cattle have to be dipped or sprayed regularly. or should have learned from the knowledge The spraying or dipping merely kills the of practical graziers. ticks on the beast. More ticks come up from the soil and breed on the beast. I can remember reading an article in Consequently, with continual infestation, "The Townsville Daily Bulletin" not very cattle are weakened and the quality of the long ago by a man who perhaps has had meat is destroyed, and half the time it is more experience in the grazing industry than not worth the money that is spent on any other man in North Queensland. I treating the cattle. Looking at it from an refer to a man named Richard Anning who, economical point of view it might have been incidentally, lives at Pugh Street, Aikenvale. better in the first place to let the cattle die. He said that in 1890 Reedy Springs in North Practical cattle men have been trying to Queensland carried 50 beasts to the square tell the theoretical men and the arm-chair mile. Today, with all our scientific improve­ graziers for years that calves are not born ments and technical advice, Reedy Springs is with tick immunity. Adult cattle may acquire carrying only 12 cattle to the square mile, a certain amount of immunity from red­ and that has been accepted as a rental basis water and various other diseases carried by by the Land Appeal Court. He then went the tick, but calves are not born with any on to say something that any of us who immunity. By some mysterious process they has any experience knows, namely, that in acquire that immunity while still suckling certain areas of North Queensland, par­ their mothers, but from the moment they are ticularly on the large holdings, only 60 per weaned the big stock losses occur. From cent. of breeding cows produce a calf a the moment a calf is weaned until it is about year. The other 40 per cent. do not produce two years of age it has no immunity, but a calf. Only 74 per cent. of the calves if it lives that long it might then build up thus produced reach maturity. He then an immunity to redwater and the other tick­ said that the small men who occupy pro­ carried diseases. Big stock losses occur from the day calves are weaned until they perties that are well fenced and are well are about two years of age. protected from dogs get a drop of 100 per cent. calves per year. Men in the industry As any cattle man knows, the mortality who know what they are talking a:bout main­ amongst calves from redwater between the age of weaning and the age of two years is tain that the destruction caused by dogs shockingly high, yet nothing has been done, prevents any greater calving than 60 per cent. as far as I know, and as far as the practical from breeding cows on 1big properties. cattle man knows, to grapple with the He suggested that we first have to grapple problem of complete eradication of the tick with the dog problem. It is no good or the immunisation of cattle against the talking about having legumes and improved tick's effects by some form of inoculation. fodders, and that sort of thing, if we have Anyone who knows anything about disease no stock to eat them. and the transmission of disease knows that if a wog is in the blood it must be killed Mr. O'Donnell: You are only providing in the blood. For many years the medical extra feed for the dogs. profession knew that the wog that caused 548 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill septicaemia was in the blood and they could Mr. Muller: You should not charge the kill it outside the human body. It was not whole of the cost to the dairyman. Charge it until the first fluke application of Prontosil to the country, not the dairyman. that they realised they could kill the wog inside the human body. Before that, of Mr. MURRAY: As the hon. member for course, they believed that if they put any­ Fassifern says, the prevention of the entry of thing into the human blood system to kill a wog it would also kill the human being. disease is a national problem. The injection of Prontosil into the human The Leader of the Opposition said it was blood system to kill septicaemia was, like curious that we were introducing more most medical discoveries, a fluke discovery. controls. He also thought it strange that the Today we have all sorts of antibiotics Act had to be amended constantly. The that kill wogs inside the human body. We Minister referred to this when, in effect, he will have to do that with the cattle tick. We said that from time to time it becomes neces­ will have to concentrate on the discovery sary to amend the Act to bring it into line of some sort of antibiotic that can be injected with the latest scientific information on into the bloodstream of the beast so that it disease control and good husbandry practices. will kill the tick the moment it sucks blood In Australia, without doubt, we are extremely from the beast. All this spraying and dipping fortunate. We have enough problems but, is merely staving off the day when we have heavens above, I ask hon. members to think effective control over the cattle tick problem. of the problems in other countries, some of Until we face up to the fact that the real problem, particularly on big properties, in which are close to us, where there are foot increasing the number and quality of our and mouth disease, rinderpest, rabies and herds is posed firstly by the dog and secondly other diseases. We are extremely fortunate to by the cattle tick, and realise that only by have kept them out, but just how much effectively controlling them can we do some­ longer we can do so is open to conjecture. thing worth while, we cannot get onto pasture The hon. member for Townsville South improvement and all the other things that referred to the problem associated with people are necessary to feed the beasts. Only when coming to this country, perhaps with con­ we make sure that the beasts live long taminated clothing. A few years ago I went enough to eat the food will we be doing to Malaya to take part in a military exercise. something for the cattle industry and wipe When it was concluded I looked at some from our State's escutcheon the implied cattle that were of great interest to me and insult I offered to it in my earlier remarks came back to this country without any inspec­ when I said that this great cattle-producing tion whatever. I cleaned my boots at Towns­ State-the premier cattle-producing State of ville, with some conscience, I might say, prior the Commonwealth-with an area of 668,000 to going on another parade. I believe it is square miles has not as many cattle as little possible-veterinarians could confirm this-to Great Britain, which could be virtually put carry a particular disease in manure on boots. into Cape Y ark Peninsula. It was quite extraordinary that at Darwin ·when we want to know something about there was virtually no control or inspection. the cattle industry let us not display too much If foot and mouth disease entered the north of a tendency to run to those in the universi­ of Australia, where we have a large cattle ties, the arm-chair graziers and the scientists population in uncontrolled herds, it would who only know of the cattle industry what be absolutely tragic. Where would we stop they have learnt from books. Let us consult it? How would we stop it? It is relatively the men who have been in the cattle-raising simple, in terms of disease control, to walk industry all their lives. Let them tell us their into an area, with authority, which you must problems, just as Mr. Anning told "The have, and deal with an outbreak of foot Townsville Daily Bulletin" of the problems and mouth disease. We see this cropping up in the cattle industry. Let us grapple with all over the world; for instance, in the United the things that need grappling with. Let us States of America and in the United deal firstly with the dog and the tick and Kingdom. The economic loss is disastrous. having done that, we can then turr{ It means moving into an area and destroying to the pasture improvement and the cattle over a wide area around the affected other things which are absolutely vital and part. The thought of disease such as foot essential for the much-needed cattle industry and mouth disease coming into the north of this State. of Australia, with such little distance separ­ ating us from it, is really frightening. Per­ Mr. MURRAY (Clayfield) (4.12 p.m.): haps we had a better chance when the Dutch Following the hon. member for Townsville controlled what is now West Irian. I doubt South no doubt gives one an opportunity to whether there would be any great sense of touch on a number of aspects of the Bill responsibility amongst the West Irians at which might otherwise not have been raised. the moment. This is a very real problem I think they have been well raised. At the to our developing cattle industry in Papua outset, let me say that almost anything we and New Guinea. can do, however harsh it may appear, to prevent diseases entering this country that are Mr. Aikens: A saboteur could introduce not already here, is justified. it deliberately. Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 549

Mr. MURRAY: That could be done at connected with that. It is perfectly weH practically any time. We have this most known that by fencing and carrying out serious problem, and it behoves all of us certain set procedures, such as dipping, to support any legislation which will prevent spraying, and perhaps clipping, ticks can be its happening. eradicated. Mr. Muller: The whole of the people We are told that ticks are now costing us should meet the cost; that is the only part £10,000,000 a year, which is a heavy burden I disagree with. on the State. I believe that the cost must be much higher, because so many factors Mr. MURRAY: I agree with the hon. that cannot be assessed, come into the member for Fassifern. He feels that the problem. Surely eradication is a task that dairying industry is subsidising or paying the we should face up to in a positive way. In cost of all this prevention. For the life of me the United States the Texans eradicated I cannot believe that it is. I do not think ticks. It was Texas fever, as it was then this is the case. The hon. member for called, that finally prevented the Texan herds Fassifern may feel that the dairying industry from making their pilgrimage into the makes too great a contribution by some northern States for disposal as store cattle. form of levy. This fs largely a Common­ The Texans faced up to the problem. wealth problem; the States are vitally con­ Admittedly a shooting war developed, but cerned and play their part. In Queensland they eradicated ticks or reduced the problem we must be diligent and constantly on the to such an extent that it ceased to be an watch. important factor. This has been done across the southern States of the United States The hon. member for Townsville South through Louisiana and Florida. There are dealt with ticks. The Minister may be able occasionally small outbreaks, but the tick is to tell us what has happened to the work no longer a problem because those people that Dr. Riek and Mr. Mahoney were doing faced up to it in a positive and drastic for the C.S.I.R.O. Their work appeared to manner. be reaching a significant stage. I under­ stand that Dr. Riek has joined private enter­ I know that it would be extremely difficult, prise-! suppose he was offered a higher inconvenient, and costly in this country to salary that was more attractive to him­ take an area that may perhaps be suitable and that Mr. Mahoney has gone overseas geographically by the presence o!l' ranges, on a scholarship. Their work has been rivers, or some other features, and eradicate stopped temporarily. This is a great shame ticks in it, and then move to another area because they were perhaps getting towards and do the same thing. I understand that some answer in a type of tick control by in the United States all cattle were moved inoculation, as was mentioned by the hon. from certain areas, and men went out and member for Townsville South. We have cleaned out the last of the cattle by the most been waiting for many years for this type of drastic means, finally the rifle. control. I wonder whether we should be Ticks can be eradicated, and it is up to us waiting for it or not. Personally I think a to decide how valuable such action, drastic great deal could be done. We know perfectly as it may be, would be. I know that in well that in a tick area we can fence our the uncontrolled herds farther north the property and dip our cattle, and by various problem of tick eradication seems almost other means and good husbandry eradicate insurmountable. The cost to both the nation the tick completely from our property. In and the State is extremely high. Some my own case, this could have been done advocate changing the type of cattle. It is at Ingham. As the Minister knows, prob­ well known that Brahman and Zebu types ably there is no heavier tick infestation any­ in the pure form are resistant to tick infesta­ where in the State than there is in the tion without dipping, even in the Herbert Herbert River district. River district, and in many areas there are Mr. Aikens: Do you think there is heavier others who advocate the use of higher tick infestation there than on the head­ percentage Brahman crosses with British waters of the Burdekin? breeds. New breeds being developed from Brahman crossing can be of assistance in tick Mr. MURRAY: I do not believe that any control. In spite of these measures, we have place has heavier tick infestation than the to face up to the tremendous losse

publicity is given to rural matters through country. That was an unusual attitude for the Press, after hearing what the Ministe-r them to adopt. Reference was made today said today it would indicate that the dairying to people's clothing and Mr. Bell, president industry, far from receiving everything, also of the United Graziers' Association, has gives. It has contributed substantially to the voiced criticism of what he called the casual tuberculosis eradication scheme. Today attitude adopted at the airports towards throughout the dairying industry there is a people coming to Australia. A new pro­ fe-eling of frustration. In the Address-in­ cedure has been adopted in the last three Reply debate the hon. member for South months for people who come into this Coast put up a very strong case in support country. They are asked if they have been of those engaged in the dairying industry. on a farm, at an abattoir, a meat packing Many of us have had close association with factory, or in direct contact with farmers. If people in that industry, and we are very they have, their shoes are treated, as the sympathetic indeed. I point out that this hon. member for Clayfield treated his when industry pays for the services it receives and his conscience worried him, as he said. always endeavours to contribute to anything Mr. Munay: V•/e have an added problem that is worth while. now with the hurried movement of troop We need to have the position of levies personnel backward and forward. made clear. If I understood correctly, there were compulsory levies such as the tubercu­ M.-. O'DONNELL: I agree that we have losis eradication levy but others were to be the added mobility of the armed services on a voluntary basis. The mileage assessment as we11. I think the Minister referred to for services outside the tuberculosis eradica­ this problem at one stage. He referred to tion project was to be on a voluntary basis. animals and persons. The1-e was an interjection relating to veterin­ Mr. Row: Yes, persons having entry at ary surgeons being in the employ of the Darwin. Government; in other words, the adoption of a socialistic attitude towards them. It occur­ Mr. O'DONNELL: The Minister bracketed red to me at that time that I should like to the two; persons could be involved. know exactly on what basis this mileage assessment would be worked out, how much Mr. Row: Yes. would be actually paid, and whether there Mr. O'DONNELL: We cannot over­ was an annual limit to what each veterinary emphasise the importance of quarantine surgeon could obtain from the fund. I have stations and the efficiency of their work, heard of these mileage bases before. In neither can we over-emphasise the importance certain instances for medical services in the of veterinary restrictions. We must continue country a doctor receives 7s. 6d. a mile one to be vigilant. We must be greatly concerned way outside the 3-mile limit. It would be when we are dealing with our national funds. more valuable to run the miles than to receive If we could only feel the same way about fees for his services. many other matters and be prepared, we When such points are introduced the would be in a wonderful position. We Minister should take the opportunity to make could be prepared for many of the problems them very clear. I know it is a big problem long before they arise. I know very well to the Department of Primary Industries. that people in the dairying industry wish they There could be more voluntary assessments, could turn back the clock. They are not particularly for strain 19 inoculation against so happy about the freeholding that they brucellosis, treatment for infertility diseases, have today. They may have been helped and artificial insemination. I know these by additional areas and so on under a points were mentioned by the Minister, but better type of land administration. when money is involved he should present It is a pity to see how this industry is the Committee with a much clearer picture. fettered because of changing circumstances The hon. member for Fassifern is a man and the changed approach to its products. experienced on the land, and as he spoke I When I was a small boy my parents insisted could feel his resentment against the treat­ on having butter in the house--and we ment meted out to the dairying industry. He were poor people-because the manufacture was on the defensive, as are most dairy of margarine was based on imported oils. farmers today. While they are in that state of The wheel has turned and there has been a mind they will not make a great deal of change to the use of oils from locally grown progress. It is pleasing to have it stressed products; time has moved but we have not that the dairymen are paying their way in moved with it. When one compares the these important contributions to dairy herd consumption of milk in Australia with the improvement. consumption of beer one finds that people are happy to pay the extra excise on beer The hon. members for Townsville South and yet they complain when it comes to an and Clayfield referred to foot and mouth increase of td. a pint in the price of milk. disease and to the fact that we were fortunate In our hearts, we find it hard to understand in its not having been brought into human nature. Australia. There is tremendous fear of this disease. In July last year the graziers in We have discussed dairy cattle and the the south-east of the State even spoke about reasonably successful eradication of tuber­ establishing a national fund for compensa­ culosis. Recel}tly I found a very interesting tion in case the disease should come to this reference to tuberculosis in beef cattle. 552 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

At the time the comment was made the the Minister is having trouble with people estimated loss was £250,000 per annum. It who will not pay under the tuberculosis was stated that it was time a general testing eradication project for dairymen. programme was implemented. Here is a case where we need another special voluntary Mr. Row: Not very many-only a few. assessment. I should like to know whether it has been initiated and how far it has Mr. O'DONNELL: But provision has gone. Of the carcasses that are condemned been made for an additional assessment if at the meatworks because of disease, 57 their money has to be collected. I think the per cent. are condemned on account of tuber­ safeguards relative to the introduction of culosis. While we feel pleased about the stock to Queensland are important and, as it reduction of the incidence of tuberculosis in has been extended to carcasses, the reference our dairy herds, we should wonder why we to swine fever was quite opposite. I know have not progressed into the beef herds in that section 92 of the Commonwealth that regard. There could be an upsurge in Constitution might be raised. the disease and, as a consequence, heavier losses. Mr. Row: As I said before, I think the health aspects would prevail. The subject matter of ticks has been adequately covered by previous speakers. Mr. O'DONNELL: That is good to know. I should like to know how Glenlogan is As a consequence, the State is protected. progressing. It was set up on account of I feel that previous speakers have can­ the inadequacy of Y eerongpilly and vassed fairly fully all the main points. To Amberley. It would be interesting to have avoid repetition, I shall not deal with them. a statement from the Minister on how far The Bill seems to have received general Glenlogan has gone in tick control. approval. From my personal point of view, the big question is what the Minister has Mr. Row: I have no control over it. put before· the Committee on the levies. Whilst I appreciate that they are completely Mr. O'DONNELL: I had hoped the justified, resentment was expressed by the Minister would know something about it. hon. member for Fassifern, who suggested Unlike the hon. member for Townsville that dairymen were paying for a lot of South, I believe that we can deal with other people as well as for themselves. these matters only with scientific help. He discounts that and talks of the graziers as Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (4.53 p.m.): people with practical experience and so on. I should like to say at the outset that this I believe that the scientist is the man who very important Bill appears to be a step can do something about ticks. If the solu­ forward in the control exercised by the tion is to attack the tick through the Department of Primary Industries. This is bloodstream, I do not believe that any a matter of which all hon. members should practical farmer could evolve a scheme to take considerable notice. The Minister has carry it out. It is most important that introduced a considerable number of amend­ our scientists tackle this problem, which ments which necessitate lengthy examina­ is such a costly factor in our economy. tion, and in speaking at the introductory stage I do not desire to dwell at length on I listened attentively to the Minister. many of them because, with the interrup­ Like the Leader of the Opposition, I do tions that an ordinary member has in the not think there is anything in the Bill Chamber and the calls that he receives to that would not be helpful in the protection go outside, it is very difficult at times to of stock against disease. This is important get a clear appreciation of very important because the Stock Act is a revenue-producing legislation such as this from the Minister's Act. In protecting against disease we auto­ introductory speech. matically decrease the mortality rate and so improve the economy. I should like to voice my disapproval of the statements made by the hon. member for The question of levies is most important. Townsville South when he was being highly There should be a clearer indication of critical of the dairying industry. Many of their purpose and how they will affect his points may be good for a Saturday night certain individuals, and what is meant by speech under the Tree of Knowledge, if it "voluntary" assessment. Where groups of still exists in the Townsville area, and would people are concerned, as they are in certain probably appeal to the mob at large. At facets of legislation, a majority makes the the same time, there is apparently no signi­ decisions, and quite rightly so. How ficant number of dairymen in his electorate voluntary will these voluntary assessments or he would not have spoken in such vein. be? How will there be protection for In my electorate, however, I have a con­ those people who wish to obtain this siderable number of dairy farmers. I was voluntary treatment and voluntarily pay for friendly with them over the years before I it if they have round them others who are entered Parliament and I discussed their not in the scheme and are consequently problems with them. I say quite frankly that helping to maintain certain diseases? Often I am very sympathetic towards people in the voluntary schemes can break down because dairying industry. They have suffered a people will not join them. I know that great deal of privation at times, and it is a Stock Acts (21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 553 wonder to me that they have the heart to must have a formal pratique from the Com­ carry on in periods of adversity such as the monwealth Medical Officer to say that mem­ one that they are experiencing at present. bers of the crew are not suffering from What industry in Australia has done more particular forms of illness. However, it is to develop the country than the dairying impossible to keep a very close watch on industry? What industry has opened up clothing and many other articles that are greater areas of land? Taking into account all brought in by their crews. the implications of the industry-the manu­ I sincerely hope and trust that foot and facture of butter, the transport services that mouth disease does not come to this State. are required, and all the ancillary services­ I reiterate that we should exercise extreme what industry has given more employment in vigilance to see that it does not come here Australia than the dairying industry? It and should use all possible ways and means would be very difficult for any hon. member to prevent it from destroying this wonderful to name one. If the hon. member for Towns­ industry. ville South has a grouch about the Over recent years there have ibeen consider­ £15,000,000 of Commonwealth money being able exports from this country to Eastern paid to the dairying industry, does he not countries and others where foot and mouth think that the great benefits that the industry disease is prevalent. This is due to increasing has conferred on this young country override trade in certain commodities far removed the payment of that subsidy? His remarks from any industry depending on livestock. were made quite foolishly, and I voice my Nevertheless, articles on the ships and their disapproval of them. crews could introduce this disease into our The Leader of the Opposition referred to country, which would be disastrous. I the Minister's fears about certain diseases should like the Treasurer, who administers entering this country-diseases that we know the Harbours Act, to bring down legislation of but so far have been successful in keeping to provide for the installation of more up-to­ out. He spoke of foot and mouth disease and date incinerators and disposal units at the rabies and said that the Minister may have various ports under the control of port been drawing the long bow. I appreciate his authorities. By doing so he would be doing thoughts on the subject, and I appreciate, too, a great service to the grazing industry and the fact that he referred to the wonderful would set many minds at rest. work carried out by quarantine officers. We have been fortunate in avoiding an outbreak A few years ago there were imported into of foot and mouth disease, and considerable this State, and landed at Gladstone, numerous. vigilance must have been exercised by these cattle from the Northern Territory. I think officers. As the Treasurer said by interjection, they were shipped ex Darwin. I do not it would be disastrous if foot and mouth know what type of vigilance was exercised disease came into Australia. in the Northern Territory. Fortunately, there have not been any further shipments. I quite agree with the hon. member for They were apparently wild cattle bought at Clayfield that the greatest vigilance is neces­ a very low price. They were all shapes and sary. I have had experience as chairman of sizes and it would be difficult to distinguish a port authority for many years. The Trea­ any particular breed. Some of them were surer administers the Harbours Act, and I should like to ask him what port in Queens­ old enough to vote and they caused land has adequate means of disposing of pandemonium in the town. Some of the refuse from overseas ships that come from performance warranted the attention of the areas where there is foot and mouth disease. police, who fortunately kept them away from the general public. Mr. f'riurray: That is an important point. This stock was to be moved to Barala:ba:. Mr. HANSON: I have raised this question to a point some hundreds of miles inland: before in the Chamber when speaking on a They passed by valuable cattle properties, Bill relating to livestock. very near to Calliope station, which is a very valuable stud. The sale of bulls from In 1949, the first year of my chairmanship Calliope station is well known and weH of the Gladstone Harbour Board, an incinera­ advertised throughout the State. If these tor for disposing of refuse was installed at cattle had come with some sort of disease Gladstone. On inspections of the ships, we that might have been imparted to Mr. saw Lascars' rags and all types of food and Wilson's cattle it would have been disastrous clothing spread everywhere. On one occasion for that station and for the district at large. after the incinerator was installed, I noticed As I said, fortunately there has been no one of the board's employees with his hands further movement of cattle to Queensland right down lifting the muck into empty petrol from that area. drums. I said to the man with whom I was making the inspection, "Get that man a With regard to veterinary seTvices as out­ shovel. I won't see any man do that." He lined by the Minister, I noticed that he said, "He does not want a shovel." I said, mentioned special assessments for the financing "Why?" He said, "He is looking for plates of mileage fees for veterinary se-rvices, and knives and spoons." He was obviously excluding tuberculosis. I have always been doing this under some agreement that he had laudatory of the officers of the department made with the crew of the ship. Things such .for the attention that has been paid to as that can slip past an apparently vigilant tuberculosis-free herds. It is very desirable, quarantine officer. Ships entering our ports and extreme- vigilance has been exercised. 554 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

As to tubercular-testing contracts, I think of money and a great deal of thought and in the report for last year it was shown that planning, but we have to start some time. there were 48 approved veterinary surgeons, As some hon. members have said, it is 45 under four-year contracts and three under useless to bring out a new dip mixture one-year contracts under the assisted mileage every year, with salesmen telling different scheme. Under this legislation the assisted graziers, "This is good. It will really do mileage scheme has been extended to other the job." We all know that Rucide and services requiring the attention of a veterinary other dip mixtures have been sold to graziers. surgeon. This is a step in the right direction. The salesmen say, "Rucide is no good. We As there has been heavy incidence· of vibriosis are on to something better." It goes on in the northern part of my electorate and and on. Whilst it is a very difficult task, other parts of the State, and a certain amount a start has to be made and I trust that, of brucellosis in other areas, it is very in years to come, the Minister may intro­ encouraging to know that the department is duce a further Stock Act Amendment Bill willing to extend these services. that will give greater emphasis to this I pay tribute to the people who run the problem. I will postpone any further artificial insemination station at Wacol. It remarks until the second-reading stage. is well fitted up and well conducted. The Mr. GAVEN (South Coast) (5.11 p.m.): people themselves are most courteous. I I had no intention of entering this debate was very grateful for the day I spent there because I was in consultation with the some 12 months ago. Minister for Education when the Minister My Leader deplored the fact that there introduced this measure relating to certain was a shortage of veterinary surgeons in matters which are of importance to the the State. I share his regrets. People who people in my area. Having been with the are prepared to graduate from the university Minister for Education when the measure as veterinary surgeons can do a wonderful was introduced, I did not know exactly what job for their State in trying to overcome it was about. However, the Minister was many of the problems associated with animal kind enough to give me a brief outline of industries. On a previous occasion I drew what he said and I am very happy to say a attention to the growing practice among few words about the measure. I am happy, veterinary surgeons in association with the too, that the Minister is taking some interest big drug companies. If a farmer or a stock­ in the dairymen-the butter producers and owner in a case of emergency requires milk producers of the State. I should say some particular treatment for his stock he that no portfolio in the Cabinet is more has to obtain a veterinary surgeon's pre­ important that that of Primary Industries. scription to hand to his local chemist. My My reason for saying that is immediately Leader has already deplored the shortage of obvious when it is realised that the State veterinary surgeons in different areas. In will progress, or be retarded by what my area, and others, the one veterinary happens on the land. surgeon may be many miles away from where the emergency occurs. I know of As I said the other day, of the £1,500 a man who lost a bull worth £1,000 to million of exports which leave Australia to £1,500 which might have been saved had bring lifeblood to this country, almost the drug company supplied the necessary £1,100 million is derived from primary drug that was asked for by the local industries. No industry has played a more chemist, but the drug company insisted on important part in the development of this a veterinary surgeon's prescription before State and done more for the family unit it would supply it. than the great dairying industry. Every town, every village, and every hamlet, from It must be remembered that such services one end of the State to the other, owes its are not as readily available as they would early progress, its basis, and its foundation, be in more populated areas. Veterinary to the great dairying industry. God bless surgeons, like everyone else, including me, I cannot understand why it has not politicians and those engaged in professions been treated as a more important industry and commerce, have a responsibility to the over the years than it has been! The late community. In their association with the Hon. 0. 0. Madsen and the late Hon. H. H. drug houses they should adopt a common­ Collins did their utmost to uphold and assist sense attitude and so ensure that the require­ this industry in every way. All that those ments of country people are met. in the industry ask for is their cost of I do not want to speak at length at production plus a reasonable margin of this stage. I intend to do a certain amount profit. No matter which industry one refers of research in connection with the Bill and to-the wool industry, the beef industry, will speak again at the second-reading the sugar industry, and so on-in not one stage. of them is there a continuous seven-days-a­ I heartily endorse the remarks of the week operative. hon. member for Clayfield about the cattle Mx·. Davies: They are protected. tick. It has cost the grazing industry many millions of pounds. Even though the difficul­ i\\h·. GAVEN: They are not protected. ties seem insurmountable, a considerable Over the years they have been made the impact could be made on the problem of wood-and-water joeys by people in the big tick eradication. It will take a huge amount cities. Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 555

I have raised my voice in defence of these cow; therefore the dairyman does not want to people. Their plight is appalling. The lose her. If cows can be saved for £4 4s., it dairying industry is worked as a family unit, is a great help to many people on the land and but for the child labour and the house­ who are in dire trouble. They have been in wife labour helping the husband, on the dire trouble for the last 12 or 18 months, and present price obtained they simply could not will be in dire trouble for the next two years. carry on. It will take a long time for the dairying I glanced quickly through what the industry to recover from the terrific trials and Minister said and I again commend him for vicissitudes it has faced during this drought. taking notice of this wonderful industry. I That is why I raised my voice so strongly hope he will do his utmost to influence those recently to ask for the continuance of the around him to realise its importance, how subsidy given to dairy farmers in July when essential it is to keep the family unit going, the Milk Board recommended 8d. and they and how important it is to all the country were given 4d. It should be kept on so that districts to keep the dairying industry going. they will be afforded an opportunity to I repeat that all the dairy farmers seek is recover from the hard bumps they have had their cost of production plus a reasonable during this period. margin of profit. They have no independent tribunal to turn to; they have no Industrial The Minister said that there would be a Court to go to; they have no-one to go to charge for inspectors who go out and inspect to determine what they will be paid from a herd for tuberculosis. We have been going one month to the next. They know not through that for almost 30 years. I have seen what they are to get for their products. trainloads of condemned cattle leaving my district by road, because we have no railway. I see the Minister's offsider on the bench It is strange, but the best cow in the dairy­ smiling. He knows exactly what he is going man's herd-the best looking cow, the best to g.::t every week in his wage packet. producer, the one with the bright eye and the Through you, Mr. Hooper, I tell him that silky coat, the one you would bet is as sound the dairyman does not know what he will as a brass bell-is the first cow that is get and does not know what is in front of knocked in a test. The poor miserable crea­ him from one month to the next. He has ture with her fur up the wrong way and with to fight flood, fire, drought, disease, and a hump on her back, the one you think will many other things associated with this great go for sure, survives. As a consequence the industry that only a few years ago were dairy herds in my electorate were almost completely unknown. wiped out in the middle 1930's, and many dairymen lost their livelihood. If today they Mention has been made today of the were given the subsidy or replacement of incidence of brucellosis and many other somewhere in the vicinity of £6-- diseases now experienced in this industry. Cattle become weak during a bad winter Mr. Uoyd: That was five or 10 years ago. when there is no food and little water. They might look all right, but give them a bump Mr. GAVEN: No, it was in the 1930's with your shoulder and you knock them over. when we got £6, and that is the subsidy that Consequently when such a dairy cow is paid today. approaches the moment of calving, she lies down to present her calf and she is so weak Mr. Sumvan: You are wrong; it is £20. that she develops what is called calving paralysis. That has been most pronounced !Vir. GAVEN: If it is £20 today, according during the last winter in the district where I to the hon. member for Condamine, it is a live. It is claimed that it is caused by lack of great pity that the people in my electorate lost calcium. That could be true. their herds for £6 a head. If it is £20 today, what compensation will go to the people who The veterinary surgeons we have in this lost all of their herds in the 1930's and State have been a great help and assistance to 1940's? the man on the land. A monument should be erected in this country to the C.S.I.R.O. for Mr. Row: It is still £6. having produced men like Jack Maunders, Bob Chester, and the other fellows we have in Mr. GAV:EN: Then the hon. member our area. Jack Maunders is one of the most for Condamine is talking in riddles when outstanding veterinarians I have met. Bob he tries to tell me that it is £20 today. Chester is a protege of his. They have done a Mr. Sunivan: I got a reimbursement of wonderful job of work in my district and I £20. cannot speak too highly of their efforts on behalf of the dairyman. No matter whether M1·. GAVEN: The hon. member must have it is raining or fine, hot or cold, if they have a pretty good friend somewhere, because been able to get out to do a job they have we never got it and, to my knowledge, it gone out and done it. is £6 today. I am not helped at all iby We have heard today about the costs of the incorrect advice that the hon. member travelling out to places to do a job. The cost is g1vmg me. He should not be a member of coming out five miles, looking at a cow, of any committee set up to help the man and giving her a full dose of calcium to put on the land when he does not know the her back on her feet is £4 4s. It is an amount compensation payable for a dairy cow. The well paid because it is hard to get a good Minister has told me that it is still £6. 556 Stock Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

Reference has been made to redwater move their dairy cattle from the first pro­ and various other prevalent diseases. In perty to the one a mile away. The cattle my area it is strange that a beast can be graze in the pasture there, and are then taken from the Numinbah Valley three­ taken back. It is necessary to have a quarters of a mile up to Springbrook and it permit from the inspector to travel stock will live, but if one is brought from Spring­ on the road, and the permit must be carried brook to the Numinbah Valley, because of at all times. the different viruses in the ticks at Spring­ At one time the roads were really only brook and Numinbah you can bet your last tracks and horses could walk up .the middle shilling that in nine days it will have its of them. However, with the de·velopment of toes in the air and will be dead. Beasts main roads, road bodgies travelling at 80 living at Springbrook cannot live at or 100 miles an hour look at the man Numinbah. That indicates that there are travelling along the side of the road with a different viruses in ticks. few head of stock, just poking along so the The hon. member for Port Curtis spoke stock will not get overheated, as if he has about using Rucide in dips. Ticks in some no right to be there. One of Nicholson's areas have developed a strong resistance to big low-loa·ders, say, with a 40-ton load on Rucide, and in other areas they have become it, would knock the stock down and run over resistant to arsenical dipping. Different them and the driver would think he was viruses are found in ticks in different areas, entitled to do it. I have always been led to and today, irrespective of t:he type of dip believe that the man travelling his stock along used, at times only a 50 per cent. kill is a road, provided he is careful with them and obtained. In the dairying, fattening, and carries his permit, has just as much right to beef-cattle industries, no matter where one use the road as a tourist's car or 40-ton low goes ticks are causing tremendous production loader from Victoria or New South Wale-s losses. It is therefore incumbent on the racing through with a load of potatoes, or powers that be, not only those who control something of that sort. I think I am right the Department of Primary Industries but in saying that. also their officers, to do everything possible Under the Act it is possible to get a permit to eradicate ticks. Some departmental for six months or 12 months. officers have done a very good job in the interests of primary producers. More and Mr. Row: This is making it easier for you. more research must be done to combat tick fever. This disease and redwater are as Mr. GAVEN: That will be very good old as time. They were prevalent before I indeed. I am grateful to the Minister for was born and, like the common cold, are being helpful. We will know more about still with us. Despite all the advances of these provisions when we see the Bill, and medical science, people still get the common I shall probably have a lot more to say cold and doctors cannot cure it. Some time, at the second reading. somehow, somewhere, a cure must be found There is no stock inspector in the area for it, as a cure must also be found for in which I live. The people in it have to the ills of the dairying industry. go to Southport or Coolangatta to see a stock inspector. However, the policeman at I now wish to deal with stock travelling Nerang can issue permits and is very obliging. on roads. This Bill will permit farmers to If he has to go away for any reason, he drive cattle along roads, and also allow will write the permit out and leave- it in his the carrying of "bobby" calves for sale. The letter-box to be collected if one makes typical farmer is a busy man, and, as soon arrangements with him the day before. as he has cleaned his milking machine in the shed, the first thing he does is bundle A stock inspector comes out to the sales, up to half a dozen calves onto his truck as he should. He must be very vigilant to or utility, put a crate round them, and prevent the spread of disease, and diseases rush them to a sale. He drops them off in can be taken from stockyards to many places. a pen, and races back to his farm and We have heard a good deal about foot and jumps on a plough and tries to improve his mouth disease in Asian countries and other pasture to assist in the economic running overseas countries. It is a terrible disease of his business. and it would be a shocking thing if it were introduced to Queensland. I think it may be Mr. Row: This is an exemption. brought in on the wheels of aircraft if care is not taken. I do not know whether aircraft Mr. GAVEN: Then I am wholeheartedly are disinfected or what happens to them, for it, and I commend the Minister and but I do not see why diseases such as foot congratulate him on introducing it. I do and mouth disease could not be introduced not know whether there has been an in this way. The dairying industry is very exemption in !:he past. Nobody ever received important; we cannot be too careful in permission before. I am sorry to say that fostering and protecting it. I have broken the law because I have taken many loads of calves to The proposed amendment of section 4 will market without permits. People in my area authorise the Minister to appoint registered may farm another property a mile away. veterinary surgeons as approved veterinary On that property they undertake pasture surgeons. I do not know quite what that improvement, and at the appropriate time means; it probably will be clear when I see Stock Acts [21 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 557 the Bill. A veterinary service is important veterinarians, and to encourage them to go in country areas, and a good veterinary to the West we are putting this scheme surgeon is the best asset country people can into operation. have. If we added up the number of cattle The Leader of the Opposition and other Bob Chester of Southport has saved in my hon. members were concerned about levies district, their value would run into many on milk and cream. The levies for the thousands of pounds. He is on call day control of and testing for tuberculosis have and night; he will come at any time. always applied. These levies are com­ Mr. Row: He is an approved veterinary pulsory and vary slightly from one surgeon, and he was an officer of the Depart­ district to another. In general, the ment of Primary Industries, not the levy on milk ranges from one-twentieth C.S.I.R.O. to one-tenth of a penny per gallon and on cream from one-tenth to one-fifth of a Mr. GAVEN: I said that we should build penny per lb. butter manufactured. This a monument to the C.S.I.R.O., and I said Bill does not seek to alter those rates. At that Jack Maunders had done a wonderful the same time, I think I should inform job. hon. members that these levies have applied for quite a long time and have worked Mr. Row: You said he was an officer of quite satisfactorily. Of course, they have the C.S.I.R.O. He was an officer of the done much towards the containment of Department of Primary Industries. tuberculosis in dairy cattle in particular. Mr. GAVEN: I have not led anyone up The veterinary mileage scheme is now in the garden path, and I apologise if I gave operation in four centres. The dairy farmers the Minister the wrong impression. meet two-thirds of the cost and the Treasury meets one-third. In effect, both as regards The CHAIRMAN: Order! tuberculosis levies and other levies imposed, the Treasury pays a subsidy of 10s. in Mr. GAVEN: I do not want to say any the £1. Additional levies for the provision more at this stage. I thank the Minister for of special services are applied only when the assistance he has given me in the matter, a substantial majority of dairy farmers in and I reserve further comment till I see an area are in favour. the Bill. Mr. Lloyd: What is the compensation paid Hon. J. A. ROW (Hinchinbrook­ for tubercular cattle? Minister for Primary Industries) (5.30 p.m.), in reply: Most of the discussion has centred Mr. ROW: £6 a cow. on quarantine measures, levies and diseases Mr. Lloyd: That is not very much, is it? which, of course, are all important parts of the proposed amendments of the Stock Mr. ROW: Probably not. As I say, Act. additional levies for provision of special services are applied only when a substantial Members of the Opposition expressed majority of dairy farmers in the area ~re some concern because we have had to enter in favour. The local factory co-operative into arrangements with private veterinarians and the Queensland Dairymen's Organisation rather than use veterinarians from the are consulted, and the request al.ways comes Department of Primary Industries. I must to the department from the darry farmers. confess that we are short of veterinarians There is nothing at all sinister about the in Queensland. This move expresses some levies. appreciation of the value of private veterinarians and gives them added respon­ We give scholarships through our o_wn sibility. We enter into agreements with department. This year, .from m~mory I .thn~k them for tuberculosis testing and other there are six in vetennary science, SIX m measures that come under departmental agricultural science and two in pure science. control. We are also endeavouring to promul­ There has been no case of foot and gate a scheme in far-flung area'S such as mouth disease in Queensland-or rabies, Longreach where we can enter into agree­ for that matter-but provision is made ments with private veterinarians to work in the Bill in case it ever comes to under a retainer from the Department of this country. We have to be ever vigilant. Primary Industries to encourage private As was mentioned by the hon. member for veterinarians to go out into these western Clayfield, concern is felt about the possi­ areas. We are short of veterinarians and bility of the spread of disease from South­ we think that some encouragement in this east Asia. For that reason we have way will allow private veterinarians to go placed a veterinary officer on Thursday out under a retainer from our department. Island to watch for any disease that might be brought in from the islands. I have in We are trying to develop the scheme and mind particularly the screw-worf!J fly. If any I believe it will be quite an asset to the of those exotic diseases came m we would western areas. Our own officers out there have a terrible job controlling them. do ail sorts of jobs completely beyond their responsibilities, such as attending to pets, The control of diseases in stock that might racehorses and what not. We feel that this come in from Asia through Darwin has been should be the responsibility of private mentioned. I share the concern that was 558 River Improvement Trust [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

expressed about persons bringing in disease As hon. members are aware, the River germs on shoes or clothing. The hon. Improvement Trust Acts provide for the member for Townsville South was one who constitution, financing and operation of river mentioned this. Of course, it is a quarantine improvement trusts for the purpose of carry­ matter and, as such, is one for the Common­ ing out works to prevent and repair damage wealth Health Department. I understand to river banks and adjacent lands by flood that that department has taken steps to guard and cyclones. A trust is constituted by Order against the risk. All persons entering in Council, following an application by one Australia are required to advise on a form or more local authorities. Trust members are provided for that purpose whether they representatives appointed by the local autho­ have contacted cattle while overseas and, in rity concerned, with a chairman appointed by the event of the country concerned being a the Governor in Council. foot and mouth disease risk, appropriate Works carried out by trusts are financed by steps are taken to disinfect their shoes and, lo;ms and subsidies. The cost of administra­ if necessary, their clothing. It is a most tion of trusts, and payment of interest and difficult one, I know, but we have to deal redemption, are met by precepts payable by with it through the Commonwealth Govern­ the local authorities within the trust benefited ment, and I think it is doing its very best area. to guard against the risk. Mr. Lloyd: The subsidy is still 25 per cent? I think I have answered the questions of the hon. member for Barcoo about levies. Mr. RICHTER: I am not quite sure of As regards research work, of course, we do that. not come into the C.S.I.R.O. Doctor Riek and Operations of trusts under the existing Acts Mr. Mahoney are members of the C.S.I.R.O. have shown that there are some deficiencies Our research in connection with the tick is in these Acts. This amending Bill proposes to done at Yeerongpilly. I believe that my correct these deficiencies. The case has occur­ department is doing a splendid job in try­ red where a local authority wishes to with­ ing to find ways and means of eliminating draw from a river improvement trust whose the tick. The State is divided into defined area comprises the whole of the areas of that areas-the tick area, the buffer area and local authority and two others. All affected the tick-free area. Stock inspectors through­ parties are agreeable to the withdrawal and out the State are ever vigilant in controlling agreement has aiso been reached on the loan the movement of stock from a clean area to liability to be accepted by a new trust to take a diseased area, and vice versa. I believe over the work carried out already in the area that from time to time we will be able to of the withdrawing local authority. push back the barrier as we control the !Ur. Uoyd: Which authority is that? tick in certain parts of the State. I am afraid that until we find some method of Mr. RICHTER: This has happened on the eradicating the tick we will always have it Condamine River. There are three local with us in some parts of the North. We authorities in the one trust and one wishes to are working consistently to find a new method withdraw. that will completely eradicate the tick. I However, the Acts, whilst providing for the agree that dipping is only a preventive, not exclusion of an area from a benefited area, a cure, but so far it it the only way we make no provisions for the apportionment of have to control the tick. assets and liabilities. The Bill therefore pro­ I will reserve the rest of my comments poses that when an area excluded from a till the second-reading stage, when I will trust's benefited area contains works con­ deal with matters raised by hon. members structed by the trust, the Governor in Council in greater detail. shall constitute a new trust for the excluded area and apportion the assets and liabilities of Motion (Mr. Row) agreed to. the original trust between it and the new trust. Resolution reported. The proposed provisiOn is somewhat FIRST READING similar to that already existing in the Local Government Acts with respect to the altera­ Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Row, tion of boundaries between local authority read a first time. areas. The amending Bill proposes a change in the RIVER IMPROVEMENT TRUST ACTS provisions relating to right of access by a AMENDMENT BILL trust or by the Commissioner of Irrigation and Water Supply. The Acts at present give INITIATION IN COMMITTEE the Commissioner or a trust the right of entry (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, on private land to make surveys, take levels, Greenslopes, in the chair) and carry out works, after giving the owner not less than seven days' notice in writing. Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister However, actual experience has shown the for Local Government and Conservation) necessity for immediate access in cases of (4.43 p.m.): I move- emergencies. The Bill therefore preserves the "That a Bill be introduced to amend the principle of the existing Acts, but in addition River Improvement Trust Acts, 1940 to gives the right of immediate access in a case 1959, in certain particulars." of emergency. River Improvement Trust [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 559

It is aiso proposed to amend those provi­ considera:ble detail the authorities, responsi­ sions of the present Acts dealing with the bilities, and procedures involved, and more power of a trust to require or prohibit certain effectively safeguard the interests of the actions. lender, the borrower, and the Treasurer as The Acts empower a trust, by a notice in guarantor. writing, to prohibit an owner from doing Secondly, the definition of "Minister" is certain things, such as cutting down trees or corrected. The Act states that it is adminis­ ploughing river banks, that have caused or tered by the "Minister for Public Lands and may cause damage as a result of flood or Irrigation." This title is being changed to cyclone. In practice this section has been that of "Minister for Local Government and found to be inadequate for effective control. Conservation." It does not give the trust power to require a landholder to remove any undesirable work Finally, that part of the Act dealing with that he may have done. The trust has no resumption of land refers in a number of effective remedy in those cases when it is places to the "Minister for Public Lands and claimed that the work was done by a con­ Irrigation." The correct title for that tractor or employee. It does not bind Minister is now "Minister for Lands," and successors in title or subsequent lessees or the Bill proposes correction accordingly. occupiers. I commend the Bill to the Committee. It is therefore proposed to overcome these disadvantages by providing that- Mr. Coburn: In the original Act there is a 1. A trust may by notice not only definition of "bank". Does that definition prohibit the doing of an act but the permit­ still stand? ting of such an act; Mr. RICHTER: It still stands. 2. A trust may by notice require the removal of an undesirable work or the Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (5.52 p.m.): With repair of damage; the exception of the first proposal put forward, the four major amendments outlined 3. If a person fails to remove the work by the Minister appear to be not very or repair the damage the trust may do so complicated. I interjected at that stage at the person's expense; and querying the power of a local authority to 4. A notice is effective against subse- withdraw from a river improvement trust. quent owners or occupiers. It is conceivable to me that where there is The Bill provides that where wrongful damage a combination of two or possibly three local has been done to works carried out by the authority areas, as there is in the case of trust, the cost of repair of these works may the Burdekin River Trust-- be recovered from any person convicted of Mr. Coburn: There is only one in the having damaged them. Burdekin River Trust. The Ayr Shire The Bill also proposes a minor change in Council is the only one involved. the provisions relating to rating by local authorities to raise precepts payable to trusts. Mr. LLOYD: Some years ago I believe At present the Acts provide that where the there were three. whole of a local authority area is within a Mr. Richter: T.here is one on the Downs. trust area a special rate is not necessary, the precept being paid from the general fund. Mr. LLOYD: It is unimportant, anyway. But when part only of a local authority area There is one case on the Downs where three is included, a special rate must be struck with local authorities have combined to create a respect to that part to meet the precept. river improvement trust. There is now the case of one local authority wanting to with­ It is possible, and it has actually occurred, draw from the operations of the trust. To that a complete division of a local authority area may be the part included in a river my way of thinking, that will mean that rate­ improvement trust area. To avoid the con­ payers who may be benefiting from the works siderable work involved in striking a separate of a river improvement trust will no longer rate for a division which already has a be in the position that levies can be struck general rate of its own, the Bill provides that against them. when either the whole of a local authority Mr. Richter: They will still form their own area or the whole of any division is included trust. One local authority will form a in a trust area a separate rate is not necessary. separate trust. There will be two trusts. In addition to the foregoing amendments Mr. LLOYD: I did not understand that; I the Bill contains three amendments of ~ took it that one local authority was with­ fairly formal nature. drawing from the trust. Firstly, the short provision in the existing Mr. Richter: Instead of one trust, there Acts authorising trusts to borrow money and will be two. empowering the guarantee of such loans under the Local Bodies Guarantee Acts is Mr. LLOYD: In that case, it is quite a repealed and replaced with new sections reasonable proposal. The assets of a river similar to those currently being incorporated improvement trust should be apportioned in legislation when local body borrowing is between new trusts as they are· established. involved. These new sections set out in That is quite a sound scheme. 560 River Improvement Trust [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

On the last occasion when amendments When the proposal was first put forward, to this Act were introduced there were it was not envisaged that any delay would approximately nine river improvement trusts be caused by giving seven days' notice, but in Queensland, and possibly that number has the provision now proposed gives the right increased since then. The work of these of immediate access in case of emergency. trusts is quite important to the State when When the last amending Bill was brought one considers the very grave shortage of down, we agreed to the Government major flood mitigation works being under­ appointee's being not a public servant but taken at either a State or a Commonwealth a man well known in the locality who would level, or with Commonwealth assistance, in be able to fill the position of chairman of the headwaters of rivers where expensive the trust. Previously, the chairman was a projects are required to overcome the damage :public 'servan:t or the Commissioner of caused by floods in the lower reaches and Irrigation and Water Supply. in some large towns. The proposed Bill is also designed to clear The erosion and siltation taking place up an anomaly in regard to prohibiting the continually in Queensland and other Aus­ owner of land from doing certain things, tralian States result in a considerable loss such as cutting down trees or ploughing river of soil on farms and cost the nation a banks. Apparently the necessary legal great deal in loss of production. Over the machinery was not available under the Act, past 20 or 30 years there has been a con­ and I think it is necessary that power should siderable decrease in permanent waters, be given to the trust. other than tidal waters. In fact, we have very little permanent water available in [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] the State other than that which has been Mr. LLOYD: The proposal to give the conserved by damming the upper reaches of trust power to prevent an owner or lessee the river systems. The damage that has been done over a number of years has made from ploughing or cutting trees on a river necessary the scheme that is being proposed, bank appears to be necessary. This power and until fairly recently work of this type apparently was missing from the original was undertaken by the Department of legislation which however stated that Irrigation and Water Supply at a State level. the trust had power to prevent an owner The State had to bear the cost of much from taking action on his own property if of the damage caused by the blockage of such action laid the basis for erosion. Of river systems and of the clearing and dredg­ course, the manner in which the Govern­ ing to allow flood waters to get away without ment has been fiddling with this very impor­ causing damage. This is the palliative tant piece of legislation indicates that the provided by the Government, and I believe powers given to the trust have been com­ it is quite a good one. People are given pletely inadequate to enable it to carry out the opportunity to organise themselves into the work envisaged by the original legislation. trusts and the Government is subsidising That it is important work mnst be appre­ some of their expenses. ciated by everybody and, if the trust were Let us look at a little bit of the history given power similar to those given under of the subsidy that is being made availruble. the original Tennessee Valley Scheme in In the early stages of the Burdekin River America, it would have a complete right in Trust it was 33t per cent., and where law to control even the farming activities of Government property was endangered it went landholders within declared areas. If, for as high as 50 per cent. Later the subsidy instance, it was necessary that an owner was reduced to 25 per cent., and I think it should undertake certain different types of remains at that level. farming, the trust had the power to indicate Where damage is continually being done to him that it thought that should be done. to a permanent water supply in Queensland, Apparently in this case those powers have there is no legislative compulsion on local not been given. Under this proposal the authorities to create trusts. It seems to me trust will be given power to force an owner that the time will come when trusts will to dismantle buildings or to rectify work have to be created by legislative action on that has been carried out. the part of the Government instead of by However, I am not so much concerned the voluntary action of local authorities. with that but with a matter that will pos­ Where people living in towns are continually sibly be mentioned by the hon. member for having properties damaged by flood and Burdekin. When the legislation was first farmers are losing production through con­ introduced it was understood that an indi­ tinuous siltation and erosion in the river vidual river trust would be able to work in system, the Government will need the power liaison with other authorities such as electric to create a river trust within the area and authorities and other semi-governmental compel the local authorities to come into it bodies which might require access for power and administer it in conjunction with the poles and so on through trust areas and that Department of Irrigation and Water Supply. they would work harmoniously together. If that is not necessary now, it will become But that is insufficient where there are in necessary in the years to come. Queensland instances where farmers have Another provision outlined by the Minister drawn just sufficient land to meet their needs, relates to the right of access by the Com­ and some authority might provide them with missioner of Irrigation and Water Supply. the power to farm the bank of a river even River Improvement Trust [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 561 though it might create a danger of erosion. administration processes to finance the That is a matter that should be given consid­ scheme, but I doubt that it has adequate eration when extending the powers of the engineers to enable it to carry out the neces­ trust. sary work without using engineers of the At the moment, it is rather a clumsy Department of Irrigation and Water Supply. method for the local authorities to have the The Minister would know more about that right even though it is only within their own than I do. areas, to declare certain areas benefited areas and to strike a rating on one portion There seems to be nothing objectionable of landholders within the area when, in the about the proposals contained in the Bill. final analysis, work under this Act will The very fact that these amendments to the benefit all the people living in the vicinity Act are submitted is, I believe, an indication of the river. It might, for instance, benefit that the legislation at present is weak. A much considerably people living in a town at the more powerful charter needs to be given to mouth of the river if certain works are the river improvement trusts. carried out in the upper reaches. It is only a small impost which may be levied on Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) (7.24 p.m.): At farmers within the river area and it is the outset I congratulate the Minister on the very little to ask that they make some con­ introduction of this very important piece of tribution towards the construction of work legislation. We on the Burdekin, who are which, in the final analysis, will give them menaced during periods of torrential rainfall by the mighty Burdekin River, know what a recurring dividend from their properties. protection these amendments will give us. We The fact that in Queensland very few of have felt for some time now that section 11 our river systems have permanent running of the principal Burdekin River Trust Act water has been occasioned by the wanton setting up the Burdekin River Trust was more destruction of trees along river banks and or less impotent. By the amendments included careless farming methods because there was in the Bill now before us the Minister has so much land available, with the consequent strengthened the position. I am sure that the onslaught of erosion. It has all been caused trust will now be able to deal with offenders by wanton destruction and lack of supervision who create situations that could result in by governmental or other authority such as a serious erosion and scouring, which can river improvement trust. become very destructive. The Government must face up to the The Burdekin River Trust Bill was intro­ erosion problems associated with every river duced in September, 1940, following a very system. If necessary, it must implement serious break in the Burdekin River at legislation that will enable it, through the what is known as Todd's and Davey's farms. Department of Irrigation and Water Supply This flood was caused by only one tributary to arbitrarily create within each area a rive; of the Burdekin-the Bowen. No warning improvement trust which can impose upon was given that there was even likely to be landholders in the benefited area levies to a flood. Farmers who had been working enable the required work to prevent local on their farms the previous day woke up e_r~sion, which greatly reduces the produc­ the next morning to find that there was tlVIty o_f_ the land. Following a major flood, no farm where one had been the day before. land which was once highly productive may Mr. Fred Manuel, whose farm was at least no longer have any productive value. a mile distant from the river, had a wonderful crop of cane growing the night These matters are important to Queens­ before and the next day, where the cane land's future. They are sufficiently important had been there was a depression at least to warrant a very careful scrutiny of the 20 ft. deep. The soil which had formed existing legislation to see whether it is strong his farm was at least a mile away on the enough to enable the trusts to carry out other bank of Plantation Creek. adequately the tasks for which they were created, and whether they have the necessary This legislation was first introduced by ability and knowledge to enable erosion the Hon. F. W. Bulcock, who was then prevention work to go ahead. Minister for Agriculture and Stock. I read with great interest the discussion which took Of course, we must realise that any State place on that Bill as it has a relationship Government is limited in the finance available to what we are discussing this evening. In to it. Major work in the upper reaches of 1940 he found exactly the same conditions the rivers must receive first consideration in as are to be found today following a break flood mitigation work and for the prevention in the Burdekin River. He said- of erosion in the lower reaches. While we have to work in this manner in order to "During the recess, at the request of prevent local erosion as far as possible, we the Government, I had an opportunity have to ensure that the machinery of the of visiting the Burdekin area before any legislation is strong enough. The local autho­ restoration work had been undertaken. rity method seems to be rather a clumsy way I was amazed at the volume of damage of doing it, although it may be economical. and destruction that had been done. The The local authority has the administrative earlier reports that came through indicated machinery to levy rates and it can use its own damage amounting to many millions of 562 River Improvement Trust [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

pounds. Fortunately, detailed investiga­ The 1940 flood started with the scour of tion disclosed that the damage was not Todd's and Davey's, and the destruction that nearly so extensive as had been thought was caused amounted to some hundreds of at first." thousands of pounds and created a situation He then continued- where Mr. Bulcock found that he was walking on sand over the top of where there "From a geological point of view it is had been 4 ft. of cane the day before. It a very interesting stream. It is obviously had all been buried by the great volume of an erratic river. It has changed its course sand brought down by the river when it from time to time over the centuries." overflowed its banks. Mr. Ted Maher, who was at that time The members of the Burdekin River Trust Leader of the Opposition, interjected- considered that a similar situation could "At one time it discharged into the occur because of a weakening of the soils Gulf of Carpentaria." close to the Burdekin River banks. Accord­ He added that Dr. Bradfield had informed ing to them, they studied section 11 of the him that that was so. Whether or not it principal Act and the chairman of the trust, entered the Gulf of Carpentaria could be a solicitor of very high standing and a man the subject of a great deal of argument and who has been in the Burdekin area since will create a good deal of interest among the 1940 flood, and has seen all the major those people who know just what changes floods since that time, was of the opinion can be effected by the Burdekin River. that the Burdekin River Trust, under the existing legislation, was impotent to deal with We are very concerned today about this those who had offended against common matter, and the likelihood of what the sense. He wanted the Act amended to give Burdekin River can do is making many the trust power to deal with those who were residents of Ayr and Home Hill fearful of creating these dangerous situations. This the destruction of life and property which Bill, as I see it, has given that power to the may occur from the next major flood in trust, and it will be able to deal with people the Burdekin River. This fear is being who have created those situations that could caused by the practices indulged in by be a danger to life and property. certain riparian farmers who were granted Before I came to Brisbane I visited all increased assignments following the recent those places where assignments had been great expansion in the sugar industry. When granted close to the river, and where farmers the members of the Burdekin River Improve­ had denuded the soil of its protective vege­ ment Trust realised that this expansion was tation and had planted cane. There are to take place they foresaw that assignments two such fa.rmers on Plantation Creek, could be made in areas that could con­ which is one of the mouths of the Burdekin stitute a danger from the Burdekin River. River. A site has been created there for the They communicated their fears to the establishment of two 30-cusec pumps to Department of Irrigation and Water Supply, pump water into Plantation Creek, which is and asked that an approach be made to the one of the recharged streams, to replenish Central Sugar Cane Prices Board that no the underground water supply. Two of those assignments be granted in close proximity farmers have been granted cane assign­ to the Burdekin River. As we know, in ments. There is a false bank and a real each of those mill areas where new assign­ bank, and these farmers have commenced ments were to be granted, local investigation growing cane between those two banks, committees were appointed. creating a very dangerous situation. If a We have three mill areas in the Burdekin, scour started there, the water would flow namely, Inkerman, Pioneer, and Kalamia. I as a new stream into Plantation Creek, am given to understand by the members of which, with its present capacity, would not the Burdekin River Trust that they got a be able to carry it. There would be tre­ great measure of co-operation from both mendous flooding in that area. A man com­ Inkerman and Kalamia mill suppliers, so petent to judge, a man with long knowledge that on the farms supplying those mills no of the district, said with certainty that dangers were created. But the same Burke Street and Rossiter's Hill were the co-operation was not forthcoming from the original banks of Plantation Creek. Lying Pioneer area, and evidently recommendations between Burke Street and Plantation Creek for assignments of land in positions which is the whole of the residential area and would create a danger were made, and business centre of Ayr. If there was a assignments were subsequently granted by breakthrough in these places and Plantation the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board. Creek filled as it is claimed to have filled many years ago, the whole of the town The farmers, owning land which was free­ would be submerged and the loss of life, hold and having assignments to grow cane to say nothing of the loss of property, would close to the river bank, wanted to capitalise be tremendous. on their land, so they cleared the protective vegetaiion, ploughed the soil, and planted Mr. Davies: Has any progress been made cane, thus creating a situation which was with that big dam on the Burdekin? ideal for a scour. Once the Burdekin River Mr. COBURN: The dam is another matter; rises higher than its banks and starts to I am dealing now with erosion, which is a scour, just what will happen is anybody's guess. very serious problem. Unless something River Improvement Trust [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 563 can be done to correct this situation and In 1958 there was another very serious strengthen the banks where they will be break on the south bank of the Burdekin weakened by these practices, loss of life and River at what was known as Tapiolas's farm. property could be experienced. Again, it was considered that this was caused What is wanted is power to deal with those by cultivating too close to the bank of the who are creating this situation. It was felt river. Once the river rose a~bove the bank that the power did not exist under the Act, and began to lap over into the soft soil, and conseque·ntly I should say that the whole scouring started. If the Burdekin River had purpose of the Bill is to give to trusts the remained at its highest level for another power that at present is lacking. I am very 24 hours, instead of falling as quickly as pleased to know that now we will be given it did, the destruction would have been the protection that should be ours. The terrible to contemplate. work of strengthening the banks of the Mr. Davies: A big dam would be better. Burdekin River has cost, I would say, in the vicinity of £500,000. Contributions to Mr. COBURN: The hon. member can its cost are made by the ratepayers of make his speech later. I will make my Divisions 1, 2, and 3 in the Shire of Ayr. speech in my own way. No. 4 Division, which is regarded more or Mr. Davies: It is linked up with this less as a pastoral area and is much farther Bill. up the river and not so much subject to flooding as are the lower regions, was Mr. COBURN: It is not linked up with the excluded from the scheme because it was not Bill. considered to be in the benefited area. All ratepayers of Divisions 1, 2 and 3 in the Ayr Mr. Davies interjected. Shire contribute a specified rate in the £1 The CHAIRMAN: Order! on the valuations of their properties towards the funds of the Burdekin River Trust, and Mr. COBURN: I will deal with the these are subsidised by the Government. Burdekin Dam in my own good time. I Cabinet decided, by Decision No. 914 of will make my own choice; I do not want 15 September, 1958, that- the hon. member for Maryborough to help "The general practice of payment of me. subsidy to River Trusts be continued, Mr. Davies interjected. subject to the condition that Trusts must enforce the maintenance of non-cultivated The CHAIRMAN: Order! strips of 2 chains width along river banks." Mr. COBURN: At present the hon. mem­ It was pointed out to Cabinet that conditions ber is only a hindrance. He is not helping differ in different streams, so that a blanket to mitigate the dangers of the situation. condition was not appropriate in all cases. The break began, as I said, because of From that Cabinet decision the impression the cultivation of land too close to the got abroad that nobody could cultivate bank. On that occasion, tons and tons of within 2 chains of the hanks of the Burdekin soil and debris were deposited on Mr. Fred River, but no power, so I am given to under­ Byrnes's farm. His whole crop of cane was stand by those who should know, was given buried. Fortunately for him, he was able to the trust to prevent people cultivating to get a temporary assignment and within that distance of the banks. rehabilitate himself while getting his original Consequently, if such cultivation was done it farm into a condition in which it could be was too late for the trust to act. used again. There has been such a tre­ The position now is different. Orders can mendous expansion in the sugar industry be served both before and after offences are in the Lower Burdekin that very little land committed, so that it now seems to me that is still available for the production of cane, the trust will not only be able to enforce, and if there is a repetition of the conditions if it wishes, non-cultivation of the soil within experienced by cane-growers in 1940 and 2 chains of the river banks but may prevent 1958, a number of people will be out of it at any distance from the banks that it the sugar industry forever. They will have considers necessary for protection from no opportunity to reha!bilitate their land, erosion in case the Burdekin River rises because no land is norw available on which higher than its banks. they could be granted a temporary substitute The trust has been very active. It has assignment. found that the most effective means of I am very pleased indeed to know that strengthening the banks is what is called this Bill has been introduced, and I rip-rap work. The biggest possible stones know that the members of the Burdekin are obtained from the quarries and tipped River Improvement Trust will exercise their over the banks of the stream at places where powers so as to give the people the pro­ they are considered to be weak. The whole tection to which they are entitled. The of the bank in the weakened area is covered members of the trust have all shown a with a facing of heavy stones, which pro­ great interest in the work they have under­ tects it when the river in flood flows past. taken. They realise the dangerous situations That is the principal means used by the that have been created, and they know trust for the protection of areas in which what must be done to correct them and it thinks a weakness exists. give safety to the people of the area. Now 564 River Improvement Trust [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

that the Minister intends to fortify them just what this stream can do. And it is with the provisions of the proposed Bill, I with very great pleasure indeed that I see am sure they will provide the safety for the Minister protecting us from, I should which we look to them. I congratulate the say, the foolish actions of those who would Minister and those who were responsible in endanger the lives and properties of others any way for assisting to draw up this very by disturbing the soil close to the Burdekin fine measure. We believe it meets the river banks. situation in most respects. Mr. WHARTON (Burnett) (7.49 p.m.): The smaller matters dealt with in the Bill are really inconsequential as far as I I join in this debate very briefly because am concerned. Whether the rate becomes I believe that the Bill is a very wise one part of the general rate and the amount is and provides machinery for preventing paid as a precept to the Burdekin River erosion along rivers. Improvement Trust, or whether it is a specific It concerns my electorate quite consider­ rate of so much in the £1 paid on the ably and my only hope is that it goes far value of the land, does not matter very enough. much. After all, whatever money is needed My main concern is that although over has to be obtained and whether it becomes the years there has been quite a deal of part of the general rate or a specific work done along the Burnett-a wall of Burdekin River improvement rate, the rate­ stone was built many years ago at a cost payers will be contrrbuting exactly the same of about £17,000-about another three­ amount and the council will be making the quarters of a mile of stoning is required. same amount available to the trust. I There are five main farmers vitally con­ should say that is not a matter of any great cerned. When they ploughed last year they moment. had a dropback into the river and if we There is an idea that some of the people ever get another flood in the Burnett there in the area who are not contributing to are likely to be some very big erosion the trust could be brought under it as problems. conditions have changed since 1940 and some of them now are getting a measure At Kolan there is a similar problem. of protection which they did not get pre­ A 20 ft. wall of soil is being eroded each viously. I think the trust might make over­ time the Kolan River flows to any extent, tures to the council to increase the number and we are concerned about it. What was who contribute towards the scheme now. done cost about £17,000 but costs are much higher today than they were in the past. I think the Deputy Leader of the Opposi­ tion had the idea that only farmers were The legislation provides for the formation contributing towards the work that is being of trusts but let us take the matter a little done to protect the banks of the Burdekin further. Besides planning on the farms the River. That is far from the truth. Every­ local authority becomes involved in a body in the area-all residents who are considerable amount of capital expenditure. ratepayers except those in No. 4 division­ H gets a 33t per cent. subsidy, of contribute a like rate with the farmers course, but it has to borrow the remaining by paying so much in the £1 on the value 66t per cent. I think the Minister will of their properties. They are quite pleased agree that local authorities have no money to do that because they feel that the to throw around or to enter into schemes Burdekin menaces not only farm properties apart from their normal work schedules. We but any property in the town unless they should be able to bring the Commonwealth get the protection that must always be Government in in some way. At present given from a mighty stream like the the State Government pays 33;} per Burdekin. cent. H we could get the Commonwealth to put in another 33t per cent., leaving When one sees a stream five-eighths of only one-third of the cost to those vitally a mile wide flowing to a depth of 33 to concerned, we might be able to get some­ 35 ft., and does not know how much higher where. it might go or how soon it will go over the banks and cause the scouring of another Rating is a big problem in rural areas. river bed that might go right through the Already the ratepayer is making a big town, one is quite willing to contribute contribution towards the cost of roads and towards work which strengthens the banks other amenities. He does not want any more and gives protection against the disastrous increases in rates. I appreciate that a great floods which can occur in that area. deal has been done in providing the necessary machinery, but when you have I should say that the Burdekin is probably machinery you must have money, too. The the most dangerous river in Queensland ratepayers are already finding it difficult because of its mightiness and because enough. Soil erosion is a national problem of the tremendous watershed that it and if we could bring the Commonwealth drains-an area as big as England, over Government in with its share I am sure we 50,000 square miles, from which water can could do what is required. drain into the Burdekin River. Consequently, those of us who have been in the area Mr. SU!LUVAN (Condamine) (7.53 p.m.): for almost half a century and have seen I listened with very keen interest to the hon. every major flood from 1918 to 1958 know member for Burdekin. I compliment him on River Improvement Trust [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 565 his contribution. I think we are all aware As recently as five or six years ago, with of the dangers of floods in the Burdekin storm rains on the western slopes of the River. It was very pleasing to hear the Bunya Mountains, I saw thousands of acres hon. member outline the benefits that will of wheat that were ready for harvest under accrue to that river basin from this legislation, water. The Condamine River Trust has and to hear him compliment the Minister tackled the problem. About five miles south and the Commissioner of Irrigation and of J andowae, Jingi and Condamine Creeks Water Supply for bringing it before the spread out across the whole of the country. Committee. It was a pity that the hon. This is the country to which I referred when member for Maryborough kept interrupting I spoke about crops ready for harvest being such an interesting story. Of course, we get under water. The Condamine River Trust, used to that sort of thing from him. with the Wambo Shire Council, has re-formed Jandowae Creek for about 20 In my own area the Condamine River miles, right through to the Condamine River, Trust is doing an excellent job in the and has completely drained the country. conservation of agricultural soils. This legislation will allow the shire· councils to There was quite a lot of opposition to set up a trust. the scheme from various farmers at the time, but they all agree now that the money Mr. Richter: The trust is to be given was wisely spent. This scheme, in turn, more power. raises the necessity for the creek beds, par­ ticularly in the fiat country, to be kept clean. Mr. SULLIVAN: If the councils wish to That is a responsibility which the river trust set up a trust this legislation gives them could accept. It is essential from time to more power to do so. time to clean the creek beds of logs and debris so that there is a quick get-away for Mr. Richter: They already have that the water, thus preventing flooding. power. Having brought those matters to the atten­ Mr. SULLIVAN: It has been said on tion of the Committee, I commend the many occasions since the development of Minister for bringing down this legislation. agriculture on the Downs that in major Hon. H. IUCHTER (Somerset-Minister floods about 5,000 acres are lost to cultiva­ for Local Government and Conservation) tion. This cannot be tolerated. If it is (8 p.m.), in reply: In reply to the Deputy allowed to continue we can well imagine the Leader of the Opposition on subsidies, if the great national loss that will follow. The work is tied up with flood mitigation the Condamine River Trust is playing a very subsidy is 33-!;- per cent.; if not, it could be important part in attacking this problem. slightly less. West of Dalby, on the Jimbour Plains the country is as flat as the floor of the Chamber. The hon. member for Burnett suggested One could scarcely imagine that erosion Commonwealth assistance. That could be was possible but, because of the dry farming reviewed at a later stage. But is it fair to expect the majority of the community, which methods used on the Jimbour Plains for the does not benefit, to pay more than 33-!;- per conservation of moisture, in the wet season cent? It is stretching it a bit too far. the water has to get away somewhere. Prior to the development of agriculture in I thank the hon. member for Burdekin for the area, when it was all grassland, there his contribution. was no problem, but now, owing to the Mr. Davies: It was a bit weak. methods of dry farming when the land is being prepared for grain, it is opened up to Mr. lUCHTER: It was not weak. He catch the rainfall. When the ground becomes speaks from practical experience and knows saturated the excess water has to get away. what he is talking about. He has vast experi­ Most people would be amazed to see the ence in his own area where the trust has done erosion that has taken place in parts of this a remarkably good job, and I congratulate it. perfectly flat plain. The Condamine River As the hon. member for Condamine men­ Trust is shouldering its responsibilities in tioned, the big problem with the Condamine this matter, for which we should be very River is to get the flood water away as grateful. quickly as possible. A good deal of work has been done to keep LI-te creeks free. In con­ There are many creeks which are tribu­ trast, there is so much erosion of the banks taries of the Condamine River on the water­ of the Burdekin that it would be advisable to shed of the western slopes of the Dividing plant more trees. However, that is in the Range and the Bunya Mountains. The floods hands of the trust. experienced in this area may not be of Mr. Coimm: The trouble is to keep the the magnitude of those in the Burdekin Burdekin within its banks. River as outlined by the hon. member for Burdekin, but-- Mr. R!rCHTER: That is so, and I think that the trust is doing a fine job. I congratulate Mr. Smith: What about the hon. member all trusts for the fine work they have done. for Maryborough? The hon. member for Burdekin said that Mr. §ULLIVAN: Sometimes he does not the benefits should be extended to certain know where he is. people who are not contributing to the local 566 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill authority. The Deputy Leader of the Opposi­ the Commonwealth had standards of tion queried the advisability of local authori­ measurement that were related to the United ties being involved at all. As the ratepayers Kingdom units held by the British Board of eventually pay they should have some say, Trade. through the local authority, on whether they want a trust. It had been necessary periodically for standards held in Queensland to be returned The matter of rating is one for the local to Great Britain for re-verification. The last authority. We should enable the local author­ occasion on which this was done was in ity to make a collection without issuing 1935. It had been intended to adopt this separate notices if it has a complete division procedure following the conclusion of the within its boundaries. That is what the legisla­ tion does. second World War, but intimation was received from the Commonwealth Govern­ I think I have covered most of the com­ ment of its intention to procure and maintain ments. I am very pleased that there is general Commonwealth standards of measurement. agreement with the Bill. The Commonwealth, by section 51 of the Mr. Colmm: The Burdekin River Trust was Commonwealth Constitution, has the power very commendatory of the work done by to make legislation in respect of weights and Mr. Carmichael. measures and to set up standards within the J\'l:r. Rl!CHTIER: I appreciate that. custody of the Commonwealth as the sole legal units of measurement for the Common­ The Bill provides for the division of an wealth. The introduction of the Common­ existing trust into two trusts if a local wealth Act in 1948 set up the National authority prefers to work on its own; Standards Commission as the custodian of immediate access in cases of emergency; fundamental standards on behalf of the recovery where damage has been caused to Commonwealth. trust or other works which involves the trust in considerable repair costs; and simplified The Commonwealth Government in 1963 rating by local authorities to raise precepts presented to each State a set of Common­ payable to trusts. It also sets out in more wealth working standards of mass which detail the procedure to be followed by trusts had been verified against the Commonwealth in borrowing money, and, finally, it brings up standards which were, in turn, verified to date ministerial titles under the Act. against international standards. I thank hon. members for their general acceptance of the Bill. From the Commonwealth working stan­ dards, all other States' subsidiary standards Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. of mass and volume are derived. It was Resolution reported. necessary for the amendments in 1963 to give recognition within the State Acts to FIRST READING the Commonwealth standards and certain other practices which were included in the Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Richter, read a first time. Commonwealth Act and regulations, princi­ pally the recognition of the Commonwealth as the approving authority for patterns of WEIGHTS AND MEASURES ACTS weighing and measuring instruments to be AMENDMENT BILL used for trade. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE It was necessary to have an interim (Mr. Hedges, Gympie, in the chair) period during which the States could carry out the re-verification of all existing State Hon. J. D. HERBERT (Sherwood-Minis­ subsidiary standards against the Common­ ter for Labour and Industry) (8.6 p.m.): wealth working standards prior to the I move- promulgation of the Commonwealth Act and "That a Bill be introduced to amend the regulations. The date for promulgation of Weights and Measures Acts, 1951 to the Commonwealth Act and regulations was 1963, in certain particulars." originally set as 1 January 1965. However, When the Weights and Measures Acts, 1951 as a number of the States were unable to to 1958, were amended in certain particulars complete the verifications prior to this date, in 1963, information was given to hon. the date for promulgation of the regulations members of the background of the Weights was extended to 1 January, 1966. and Measures Acts and the Commonwealth Queensland was well to the fore in com­ Weights and Measures (National Standards) parison with all other states in that the State Acts of 1960. I should like to repeat some standards and subsidiary standards were of the information given at that time so re-verified during 1964. During this interim that hon. members will be fully aware peTiod, the State also tuok the opportunity of the background and necessity for the of obtaining a standard yard and metre amendments contained in the Bill. measure and other necessary standards of Prior to the introduction of the first length, which were forwarded to and verified Commonwealth Weights and Measures by the National Standards Commission as an (National Standards) Acts of 1948, later appropriate State working standard under the amended in 1960 and 1964, all the States of Commonwealth Act. Weights and Measures [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 567

It now becomes necessary to make the densities as determined by the National final amendments to the Queensland Weights Standards Commission for water and other and Measures Act to bring it into full liquids, and also the standard weights of conformity with the Commonwealth Weights certain grains and by-products of wheat when and Measures (National Standards) Act of sold in bushel quantities. ~96~. When hon. members peruse the Bill, The Act at the present time contains two It w1ll be clear to them that the majority of schedules, the first of which is the schedule the ~mendments now proposed are purely of Imperial weights and measures previously machinery amendments in order to repeal all accepted as the State standards, and also a references in the Queensland Act to Imperial second schedule referring to the standards units and Imperial standards of measure­ of mass and length verified by the Commis­ ment, and to relate Queensland State working sion against the Commonwealth units of standards and subsidiary standards to the measurement. The first schedule is now Commonwealth standards which, as from January, 1966, become the sole legal units redundant as they are Imperial units, whilst of measurement of physical quantities those contained in the second schedule are throughout the Commonwealth. covered by regulations under the Common­ wealth Act, and it is therefore unnecessary to The principal amendment to achieve this include that schedule within a State Act. is the repeal of the whole of Part II of the present Act, which has reference to the It has also been found necessary to original Imperial standards maintained by amend the Weights and Measures Act to the State. In lieu of this part, a new Part provide means by which the principal or U with a heading "Units and Standards of employer of a person who commits an Measurement" has been inserted. It refers offence against the Act may be charged with to the new standards verified by comparison the actual commission of that offence. This with or by derivation from the Common­ has been found necessary to give protection wealth units. This new part also defines to the purchasing public against the practices the number of subsidiary standards that may of selling short weight by packaging or by be maintained. other means. As the Commonwealth, by an amendment Several legal decisions have been given on in 1964 to the Weights and Measures this matter. The position first arose in a (National Standards) Act, has made the prosecution under the Health Act in 1959. National Standards Commission, known as The Health Act was subsequently amended. the "Commission", rather than the Common­ In addition to the amendment of the Health wealth Scientific and Industrial Research Act, the Factories and Shops Acts were Organisation, known as the "Organisation", similarly amended in 1960. responsible for the approval of patterns of Under the Weights and Measures Act, weights, measures, weighing instruments and several recommendations have been made measuring instruments that may be used for for prosecution dealing with short weight. trade, it is necessary to omit the word However, on each occasion the Solicitor­ "Organisation" in sections 17 A (2) and 17B General has advised that until such time as and insert the word "Commission". the Weights and Measures Act is amended As a matter of interest as far as Queens­ along the lines of the 1959 amendment to land is concerned, the standards that will be secti?n 139 of the Health Act, it is not within the custody of the Chief Inspector will possible to prosecute an employer for a be the State working standards, one set of breach of the Act committed by an employee first grade subsidiary standards, plus two with?ut the; knowledge of, and contrary to further grades of subsidiary standards t~e ms~ructJons of? t?e employer. The posi­ consisting of district standards and inspec­ twn exists where It IS not possible to prose­ tors' working standards. Each of these sub­ cute-for instance for short-weight meat sidiary standards has been verified against the purchased at one of several shops owned by State working standards and will therefore be one person if the meat is not actually a Commonwealth legal unit of measurement purchased from the owner. from the date of promulgation of the The position also exists where a number Commonwealth regulations on 1 January of stores arc owned by one person and 1966. , goods are pre-packed and distributed from As the Chief Inspector of Weights and one store for sale in the various stores. It Measures has been appointed by the National is not possible to prosecute unless the owner Standards Commission as a verifying is present. This will have great significance authority for Queensland for standards of with the proposed introduction of a uniform length, area, volume, weight, and density, code for the marking and standardisation of the new Part II gives the necessary authority pre-packed goods. for the Minister to have any standards of Recently I was asked a question in this measurement or physical quantity used in the Chamber about the progress that had been administration of any other Acts verified as :n~de iJ:! uniform packaging. For the complying with the requirements of the lil>ormatwn of hon. members, I would like Commonwealth Act. to outline the history of these proposals. In addition to the factors already men­ The lack of uniformity in the packagina tioned, the new Part II provides that the legislation in_ various States, and to som~ Weights and Measures Act recognises the extent the failure of some States to enforce 568 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

their existing legislation, has caused con­ major objectives of weights and measures siderable confusion and has somewhat facili­ administration throughout the Common­ tated improper practices in the marking of wealth. pre-packed goods and the manner in which Uniform regulations will also provide pro­ the packages have been offered for sale to tection over and above that which already the public. exists for housewives and consumers in the As far back as 1952 at the first Informal purchase of foods and other commodities. Conference of Weights and Measures We are all aware of the number of doubtful Authorities, which was held in Sydney, the and misleading practices which have existed, need for uniformity was discussed, but little and which will be stamped out under the new progress was made because of the reluctance regulations. As examples of the undesirable of some States to adopt the principle of practices which have been brought to notice standardisation for articles of food. by inspectors of my department, soap The matter remained as an agenda item powders, which are at present not required to for informal conferences prior to the first be packed in standard sizes, are packed in odd Formal Conference of Weights and Measures weights. One particular brand of soap powder was being sold for 2s. 1td. On closer exami­ Authorities held in Sydney in November, nation, there were two packets of different 19 61. At this formal conference a sub­ quantities, one of 13 ounces and one of 11 committee consisting of one representative ounces, otherwise they were identical in ali from each of Queensland, New South Wales respects. This meant that the person buying and Victoria was appointed to draft a model the 11-ounce packet was paying 3d. in excess code for pre-packed goods. of the price based on the larger size packet. Before this sub-committee had the oppor­ Both packets were marked "Standard size". tunity to carry out much investigation, a conference of Ministers, held in Canberra Mr. Hanlon: What brand was that? in May, 1962, considered that the sub­ Mr. HERBERT: I could have produced committee should be in possession of certain them in the Chamber, but I have no intention facts before it prepared any recommenda­ of producing one brand for the very good tions, and approved of a proposal by the reason that if I showed one brand here people Chief Secretary of Victoria that Victoria possibly would switch to another brand the should appoint a board of inquiry in relation makers of which are probably committing the to the standardisation and marking of same offence. packaged goods in terms of weight or Under the proposed new regulations soap measure. This was to be a fact-finding powders will be required to be packed in a inquiry, and Mr. W. J. Cuthill, Stipendiary standard size. That will end this practice for Magistrate, was appointed as the board on all time. The same position existed with 12 June, 1962. another brand of soap powder packed in the Mr. Cuthill took evidence from manu­ same size packet, but one contained I lb. facturer, packer and consumer bodies, and 11 ozs. and the other 1 lb. 8 ozs.; each was visited each State. The production of his marked "4d. off". report was considerably delayed and was A certain brand of bar laundry soap, which not completed until 26 February, 1964, at present does not have to be standardised, when he produced a report consisting of was selling as a 24-ounce bar. This was 2,322 pages. dropped to 21 oz. without any decrease in This report was then considered by the price. We are all familiar with packaging, sub-committee on packaging, under the where the containers are marked "Giant chairmanship of the secretary of the size", "Jumbo size", "King size", etc. These National Standards Commission. A number descriptions have no relationship to the of meetings were held and recommendations quantity of the commodity within the packet, were prepared and submitted to the second and are a very good example of misleading ministerial conference in December, 1964. practice. A number of these do not have to be packed in standard sizes, but they are These recommendations were referred back required to be marked with the statement of to the packaging committee for further con­ quantity. This statement is, however, in a sideration in certain particulars, and the large number of cases in very small print on recommendations were also made available to an inconspicuous portion of the packet. trade associations for comment. On receipt of these comments, the sub-committee on pack­ The present regulations will require that aging gave further consideration to the where any package is marked with such terms recommendations, and a re-draft was placed as "Giant size" "Kina size" "Jumbo size" before a conference of Ministers in Canberra etc., the statemdnt of quantity is to appear i~ in June, 1965. close proximity to such adjectives, and the characters indicating the quantity are to be Almost unanimous agreement was reached not less than one-third of the height of the by the Ministers on the proposals and the characters comprising the adjectives. proposed uniform code for the marking and standardisation of packaged goods is now to Tooth-paste is one very common item be examined by a State conference of Parlia­ which at present is not required to be marked mentary Draftsmen in order to produce with any statement of quantity. Terms such proposed uniform regulations. The accepted as "Large size", "King size", etc., are there­ uniform regulations will achieve one of the fore meaningless. Weights and Measures [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 569

A typical example of misleading advertising pass the journal on from hand to hand appeared in the Brisbane "Telegraph" of because obviously subscrrbers are wanted 8 September, in which a well-known brand of as testing is carried out according to the ·chocolate was advertised at 1s. 9d. a "full­ volume of funds it has available to make size block". Being under 4 ozs. in weight, purchases direct from retailers. The there is no necessity at the present time to magazine does not carry any advertising mark the quantity, therefore the term "full­ matter. The reason for that is obvious. size block" is completely meaningless, if not This body wants to be perfectly free to go actually misleading, because many of the in the ordinary way, as a normal consumer public still imagine that these blocks of does, and see the range of goods and then chocolate are t lb. in weight. to buy them and test them fairly to give As a counter to this practice, confectionery subscribers to the magazine the benefit of packeted in sizes of 3 ozs. or more must be their findings. marked with the statement of quantity. I have found this magazine to be very valuable. I should like to see such a body Misleading packaging has also extended to given some measure of financial assistance the packing of liquids, particularly aerated by the Government. I realise that probably waters and detergents, in bottles of divers we do not want to supersede a body of shapes, which makes it particularly difficult this kind by making it a purely Government­ for the housewife or the purchaser to deter­ owned instrumentality. mine the quantities or the relative values of those offered for sale. Detergents will I repeat that the A.L.P. believes because be marketed in standard sizes, and aerated of the difficulties that the ordinary consumer waters will be marked with the statement has in determining whether she is getting of quantity. fair value for her money, that there should be the greatest possible measure of Govern­ It should be obvious to hon. members ment protection. The A.L.P. is prepared to that considerable progress has been made give that protection, firstly by setting up a towards the ultimate objective of standardisa­ body which will determine, as this measure tion of pre-packed goods. The adminis­ seeks to do in some respects, certain tration of the regulations will, therefore, standards. make it more important than ever that the One matter which has been agreed upon proposed amendment to section 44 of the by the Ministers is that we should break Act, giving power to hold the principal or away from our involvement with the British employer responsrble for 1breaches of the system in accepting standards which have regulations, is most desirable. been laid down for measurement by the Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ United Kingdom. These measurements in Leader of the Opposition) (8.26 p.m.): the United Kingdom were related to the Of all the Bills introduced in this Chamber British Board of Trade. It is now indicated it may very well be said this is indeed that we shall conform to legislation passed by one of the most important because it has the Commonwealth Government on standards an impact on everybody in the community. laid down by the Commonwealth Weights The need for such a measure has been and Measures (National Standards) Act of amply demonstrated by commercial practices 1964 which set up the National Standards in recent years. I should like to preface Commission for determining standards in my general remarks by saying that I approve Australia. I am glad to see this break; of the steps being taken. I only hope they are in no way linked with those of that they may be the prelude to further the United Kingdom. We should be able action to protect the consumers. to stand on our own feet in this matter, and this is a step in that direction. Mr. Hughes: In what way can you go As the Minister pointed out, this legislation further than in this Bill? takes cognisance of the great public demand Mr. DUGGAN: The Labour Party wants for action to protect consumers' interests. to go further in this direction because I Today we find a very great movement away indicated in a policy speech on behalf of from packaging articles that contain certain the Labour Party that we were prepared qualities to a situation where the packaging to subsidise a consumers' council in Queens­ side of the industry is becoming more land to act as a custodian and protector of important. Because of this tremendous the rights of the public. I feel that that competition, which is a feature of our modern promise, which I made on behalf of the commercial methods, it is necessary for A.L.P., still has great value. marketing authorities to engage the services of the most highly skille·d commercial artists Mr. Hughes: We have one in Queensland and publicity experts who, after they have now. had a product entrusted to them, try to Mr. DUGGAN: No, we have not a con­ provide ways and means of selling that sumers' council at all. The A.L.P. wants article in competition with similar articles. to establish such a body. We have an All sorts of weird and wonderful arrange­ Australian Consumers' Association, to which ments have emerged. The Minister dealt I am a subscriber. Periodically it publishes with some of them. a magazine called "Choice" in which it "Choice", which was one of the organisa­ evaluates certain articles used extensively tions numbered among 160 witnesses to by the public. It asks subscribers not to give evidence before the inquiry appointed 570 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill by the Ta·smanian Government to furnish in creating hypnotic efforts. Just putting a report, a copy of which is in the the name and maker of the product on the possession of the hon. member for Salis­ box is old-fashioned and, he says, has bury, points out that it came to its notice absolutely no effect on the mid-century that there were at least 40 exotic size names, woman. She can't read anything, really, for instance, "Giant size quart". That is until she has picked the box up in her misleading. It is either a quart or not a hands. To get the woman to reach and quart. "Choice" also mentions- get the package in her hands designers, he "Starter Size, Big 2-0unce, One Third explained, are now using 'symbols that Bigger Than King Size, Super King Size, have a dreamlike quality'. To cite Long Gallon, Queen Size, Giant Imperial examples of dreamlike quality, he Quart, Colossal, Gigantic, Economy, mentioned the mouth-watering frosted Family, Giant Economy, Not Regular cakes that decorate the packages of cake 10 oz., But Big 12 oz.... and many others." mixes, sizzling steaks, mushrooms frying in butter. The idea is to sell the sizzle We have a more recent example of these rather than the meat." gimmicks employed by such people in the "Big big beer". Unquestionably that par­ I think that is very true. A disproportionate ticular gimmick has produced worth-while amount of talent and money is today going results to the people who market that beer. into the packaging industry, which I think is It is sold with the impetus of a very extensive responsible for reducing the capacity of the advertising campaign which invites people ordin

"Containers to be not more than 5 per of the attractive way in which they are cent. greater in volume than the contents; presented, we should at least know that "No price to be shown on the packet there is honest advertising. except the retail selling price·; While I am on this subject, I might say "No wording purporting to describe the that I think we could well investigate some size (such as 'King Size') to be used unless of the claims made by publicity men about the actual net weight or volume be shown the quality of certain products. Very often immediately beside such wording in type at one sees a particular brand of pills advertised least as large as the wording itself; on television. The person shown in the "All regulations to be uniform through- advertisement is dressed in a doctor's gown, out Australia." but probably he is no more a doctor than any hon. member in this Chamber. We hear it I think that is a very reasonable approach to stated that dentists recommend the use of a this matter and, because of the public agita­ a particular brand of tooth-paste, but there tion that has been going on for some time, is no substantiation of the claim that they I am quite convinced that the Government recommend it more highly than any other has become aware of the need to introduce brand. How often do we see advertisements legislation to afford a measure of protection stating that some personality or other uses to the public. One of the things that I dislike and recommends certain things? The world very heartily is the tendency, as the Minister is probably going a bit mad on advertising has pointed out, of manufacturers, in an effort claims. to absorb increasing costs without passing them on, to convey by the size of packages One of the reasons why I do not like that their contents weigh the same as they did listening to B-class radio stations is that one prior to the adjustment. Biscuits that were hears such a spate of advertising on them. packed in 8-oz. packets are packed in 7t-oz. I realise that they obtain revenue by this packets, then in 7-oz. packets, and then in means and that this is the only way in which 6i-oz. packets; the size of tins of jam is they can give an alternative to the pro­ reduced progressively; and the Minister gave grammes provided by the Australian Broad­ us as another example the size of chocolate casting Commission. However, I listen to slabs. All these things have been done for the B-class radio only when I consider that the purpose of trying to convey psychologically to quality of the programme is sufficiently high purchasers that they are still getting the same to merit my attention. I prefer to listen to a volume or weight of goods as they were programme free of advertising rather than before the adjustments were effected. We one that may be better but which may be shou_ld no longer permit these practices to interrupted by advertising. Television contmue. stations operating under commercial licences The fact that there has been a conference have only this means of raising revenue of Ministers makes the problem a little less available to them. They do not receive difficult. Naturally, because of the operations revenue from the Australian Broadcasting of section 92 of the Commonwealth Constitu­ Control Board. tion, problems arise relative to the interstate Mr. Hughes: Do you think there should be marketing of goods; but if comparable legis­ lation is introduced in other Australian a censorship on the "big, big beer" type of States, manufacturers of goods in southern advertising? States and in Queensland will be required to conform to the specifications laid down Mr. DUGGAN: I think the advertising in the proposed Bill. must be honest. That is one of my argu­ ments against bureaucracy generally. I put The Opposition welcomes these proposals. this argument forward relative to the Govern­ Several hon. members on this side of the ment's on-the-spot fines. All kinds of intru­ Chamber, and perhaps some hon. members sions have been made by various political opposite, will wish to make contributions parties from time to time, and the public is dealing with the effects of this combination actually being drugged by the great mass of of psychiatrists, psychologists, commercial advertising propaganda that descends upon artists and gifted publicity men trying to it. People are literally drugged by this act, as mentioned by Mr. Packard in his commissioning for the acceptance of book, as hidden persuaders and influence standards. For instance, today it is becoming people to buy more than they require. I increasingly more difficult to obtain goods am not making a nebulous statement. When not packed in expensive containers. Take, I do the shopping, occasionally I find myself for examole, the ordinary insect repellent in the victim of an attractively-advertised pro­ one's own home. True it is one can get an duct. It is probably one of the curses as ordinary bottle of some kind of spray to well as one of the advantages of modern use against flies or mosquitoes, but in the supermarkets that so many things are main the emphasis is on the most expensively attractively portrayed on the shelves that packed aerosol container, and so on, because one is persuaded to buy more than enough to it is convenient. The greater portion of the meet the usual family requirements for the cost factor in these goods is represented by week-end or for the week. If we are gullible the container rather than the contents. I enough to fall for this hidden persuasion, I think the public should be increasingly free suppose it is our own fault; but if we are to to choose, and that opportunity is being become the victims of buying things because denied to them. 572 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

No doubt many hon. members on both parts of the world where it has resulted in sides of the Chamber will deal with the very positive action. I have here, for question of unusual design and the incor­ instance, a short summary of action taken poration of all sorts of appeals in adver­ for the establishment of consumer councils tising. For instance, it makes me positively based in California. It has done quite a lot sick and I become incensed when I read of good by directing attention to all sorts an advertisement to the effect that Lew of things. It mentions specifically watered Hoad uses a particular brand of hair cream. ham. Apparently in that country action I would not care two hoots what hair was taken to inject a considerable quantity cream Lew Hoad used. If it was a particular of water into ham. The manufacturers of type of tennis racquet, I might be influenced that product have been compelled to show by his judgment. These people are paid on the label that it is imitation ham and huge sums of money to lend their names to that it is not a completely unadulterated advertisements. One gets to the fantastic ham. position with the Beatles, who became mil­ lionaires overnight, of people wanting to In very many directions there has been buy Beatle shirts and all sorts of Beatle a deterioration in quality. I feel that the commodities. Personally, it makes me posi­ time is ripe-if not over-ripe-for some tively sick when I see these advertising action to be taken. All sorts of claims are claims. If I wanted to buy a motor-car I made today by the use of high-sounding might be influenced by what Stirling Moss medical terms. The ordinary person listening had to say about its engineering abilities or to them or reading them would have no its braking efficiency, or something of that knowledge of what was claimed. I was kind, but I certainly would not be influenced going to mention tooth-pastes and cos­ by some glamorous model from Hollywood metics but I do not want to trespass too who happened to be ensconced in a par­ much on the preserve of an hon. member ticular car into buying that make of on this side who paid me the courtesy of motor-car. showing me a consumer magazine that he intends to refer to. In the same way, we would get very little co-operation from the newspapers on (Time expired.) this matter because they are financially dependent on advertising. We are not likely Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (8.51 p.m.): The to see the newspapers engaging in a cam­ introduction of a measure such as this is paign of this kind; they are not very much most timely. The need for it has been concerned about the veracity of claims made brought a!bout because of the effect that from time to time by advertisers. All they spurious packaging and advertising has had are concerned about is getting a reproduc­ all too often on the innocent and unsus­ tion of the advertisement in their news­ pecting community. papers, and so on. There has to be some Opposition Members interjected. other means available. That is why my party and I are so insistent that, on the Mr. HUGHES: The private enterprise question of standards, specifications and system is the system under which we live, measurements, we should have, in addition one which is recognised by the Leader of to a vigilant Government some sort of a the Opposition. I do not know whether consumer council to test the efficacy of the he speaks for all of his party, but if he does claims of advertisers. Many of them are not I remind hon. members opposite that completely spurious and somebody has to I recently read an article condemning the protect the public from themselves in these dishonesty in the Soviet Union associated with matters. the sale of certain goods to their unsuspect­ ing comrades. For those reasons we are very interested in seeing that some effort is made to rectify As I was saying, the measure is most a position which increasingly is getting out timely when high-pressure salesmen and of hand. I want to say on behalf of the advertisers with their gimmicks are all the Opposition that, although we have not had time out to get in any possible manner more an opportunity of looking at the Bill, it than their fair share of the market. The seems to make some positive contribution Bill is timely because there has been such to a problem that has very great public a madcap race to obtain a greater share interest. I feel that no measure is more of the market by certain manufacturers of likely to affect household purchases than certain products over the past few years. this proposal, and I hope that it will pave the way for perhaps complementary legisla­ Governments such as we have in the tion at a later date that will tighten still Commonwealth and in most of the States prefer to let private enterprise pursue its further the control over misleading and own way, but in this modern-day society, doubtful claims by advertisers. By all means 'because of the high-pressure activities of let us have competition but let it rest on certain manufacturers and adve-rtisers, it the quality of the product and not on some becomes necessary to introduce measures misleading claims for it. such as this for the good of the community. I feel that this measure is a culmination The National Standards Commission has of the concern expressed by Governments gone into this matter in a very heroic throughout the Commonwealth and in other manner. It has not hurried but has taken Weights and Measures [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 573 years. I do not think any hon. members I believe that the issue of "Choice" for would cavil at that lengthy consideration. July, 1964, gives an apt illustration where Mr. Cuthill's report of 2,322 pages-- it cites an example of deceptive packaging and illustrates a type of cosmetic cream. Mr. Bennett: Don't you think it is a bit In one photograph there appears a medium­ silly going to that length in a report? sized jar. Then there is a cut-away section Mr. HUGHES: If the hon. member for of it. It shows that in fact there is very South Brisbane were making a report when little cream in the jar compared with the giving an opinion on a brief, charging so size of the glass container. It says that much a page, he might do the same, readers can see just how much space is however altruistically. I am sure that this devoted to holding the cream. It says- subject matter warrants a full and lengthy "We agree that the contents are well report. I am surprised that the hon. 'veiled' in this case. The consumer is member does not rise and give due credit paying for a generous amount of space to such a report because it typifies the and a not so generous amount of cream." ramifications of their consideration and the This seems to be typical of many of the facets of concern. This legislation is com­ commodities displayed on shelves for the plementary to the Federal law and the law public to purchase. The Minister referred of all other States on the subject, and is the to bar soap, soap powder and chocolates. first step in uniform law. He dealt with them sensi:bly and succinctly I do not wish to speak at great length so I will not pursue that aspect of the at this stage of the Bill as all its aspects matter. can be canvassed in greater detail when it There are many cosmetics for sale. From is presented to us. In passing, I believe my study of this matter in shops, and from it is pertinent to say that this is a com­ talking with people, I know that the women­ munity problem. This is a case when all folk in the community are greatly concerned. hon. members on both sides-in the They are being fleeced by the form of Liberal Party, the Country Party and the packaging and presentation of beauty aids. Labour Party-could join forces to provide Cosmetics present the most frequent types protection which the public need. For too of deceptive packaging, and women are long the public have been the scapegoats being fleeced in regard to both the price and in the competitive warfare carried out by the packaging of their cosmetics. manufacturers in presenting their products in big, bigger, and even biggest packages Mr. Brmnley: The Minister said, "Let on the store shelves. In these days, to the buyer beware." find anything in a small package is enough Mr. HUGHES: "Caveat emptor." That is to raise one's eyebrows; everything is com­ one of the general laws of our society. While ing in jumbo-and-giant-si:z;ed containers. the buyer might beware, the buyer does Literally speaking, there is nothing in small­ not expect to be blatantly fleeced by decep­ sized packages. tive packaging. That is what the Bill I believe that, for a long time, the com­ will overcome. The Minister said that munity has been concerned about deceptive the figures and/ or the letters of the weight packaging. This measure is timely. The of the contents of the package must be one­ public is-- third of the height of the characters that com­ Mr. Davies: That is why you are being prise the: adjectival term or name of the pro­ forced into it. duct. The weight will ,be shown properly in sufficiently large letters, regardless of colour, Mr. HUGHES: Because we have, on as the Leader of the Opposition pointed out. our own initiative, taken timely action Therefore the: buyer, apart from his natural on a number of occasions the public caution will be protected to the extent of recognises the ability of the Govern­ being able to see clearly what is the weight ment to govern wisely and, in so doing, the of the contents of the package. public keeps returning the Government with Mr. Bennett: Don't you think that these an even greater majority. I prophesy that regulations should apply to Liberal Party at the next election there will be even electoral propaganda too? further gains by this Government at the expense of the LaJbour Party. Mr. HUGHES: We are dealing quite Journals such as "Choice", which was sensibly and sanely with a community prob­ referred to by the Leader of the Opposition, lem, and it ill behoves the hon. member to have printed articles on the latest attempts make such inane comments relating to this by certain manufacturers to deceive buyers. matter. The public will give due considera­ "Choice" is a very good magazine. I give tion to this most vital matter which has been it credit for making an impartial report. presented by the Minister. On occasions I have been guided by its While women have brains, they probably wisdom in my purchases. It is a pity that it rely more on beauty and personality to win is not more widely read. their way in a world made fiercely competitive Mr. Ramsden interjected. by men. I well remember someone suggesting to a professor at the university that there: Mr. HUGHES: It certainly is approved should be a Chair of Argument for women. by the Literature Board of Review. He replied, "We cannot obliterate a natural 574 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

tendency, but why should we attempt to was the only one that bore a label indicating cultivate it?" Women do not have, gener­ the weight of cream. In that case, it was ally speaking, the opportunities or avenues also found to be correct. of escape that men enjoy, and because of this, too many women who are chained to The association says- the home and are battened down by the "An interesting point which emerged was boredom of a repetition of household duties that, generally speaking, buying the larger find some solace or aid or escape through sizes of cosmetic jars is more economical, their interest in cosmetics. While four but in the case of Cyclax Special "0" walls may not a prison make, I believe Tissue Cream the reverse is true. So if they would dull a girl's charms to the extent this happens to be your :favourite that she has to resort to many beauty aids nourishing cream, you will be better off which the mere male knows too little about. buying it in small 12s. 6d. jars than in Beauty aid manufacturers should present the larger jars up to £1 19s. 6d." their products in a non-deceptive and honest­ to-goodness manner, which is not the case Here again is an instance of deceptive at present. packaging. The September, 1965, issue of "Choice" Opposition Members interjected. states- "One of the most frequent types of Mr. HUGHES: I think it would do hon. deceptive packaging sent to us are cos­ members opposite good to use some of these metic cream containers, which have either articles; it might take the sour look off exteremely thick or hollow walls, and/ or deceptive bottoms. The purchaser usually their faces. has bought these jars thinking that she Mr. Davies: Why don't you quote food­ was getting quite a large amount of cream for the money paid and has found later stuffs? that a substantial proportion of the package was occupied by air." Mr. HUGHES: I will quote foodstuffs in a minute. One of the most important things To give an indication of this, there is one in any woman's life is cosmetics. If the beauty aid, namely, Formulayer, that costs hon. membe'r for Maryborough does not £1 7s. 6d. and only 33 per cent. of the know that, he has a lot to learn. This package is occupied by the cream. In the case of Coty Homogenised Night Cream, association has proved that sometimes the the purchaser was getting in cream only 36 purchaser receives better value for his money per cent. of the volume of the package. In by buying small sizes than the larger or the case of Cyclax "Special 0" Tissue Cream, giant sizes. 37 per cent. of the package was occupied by The article concludes- the cream, and only 38 per cent. was occupied in a package containing Dorothy "ACA believes that stating the net weight Gray Special Mixture for dry or normal on packages should be made compulsory skin. by legislation." Mr. Bromley: What do you think of girls' That is exactly what is being done by the skin these days? Bill. What I have mentioned might be Mr. HUGHES: I think it is a joy to behold, termed the psychology of selling in the and I hope I never grow too old to enjoy it. presentation of goods. I recall a brand of sweets purchased on one occasion by my The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. young son. He received an extra large Hodges): Order! I should like the hon. packet that contained only a small inner member to return to the contents of the Bill, package of swee·ts and he thought he had and I remind hon. members that this is no been "taken". He thought there must surely time to be facetious. have been in such a large outer cardboard container, two inner cellophane packages of Mr. HUGHES: ,I believe that the Bill will, swe·ets and that one must have been taken complementary to Federal and other State out. It was explained to him that that was legislation, make it obligatory for manufac­ not so. Since then, of course, he has not turers of various beauty aids to package them purchased that brand of sweets. In that in a way that is not deceptive to purchasers. instance, as the Leader of the Opposition They will, by the provisions of the Bill, have said, the result was the opposite of that hoped to label their products in a manner that will for by the manufacturers. indicate to purchasers the amount contained in each package. There are products on the Impulse and impact selling has brought market which fill only 33 per cent. of their many problems in its wake, and people in packages. Yardley's cream was the only one Queensland have been accused of following bearing a label with an indication of the slavishly what people in other States and weight of cream present. In this case it was other countries are doing. But this is one 3:} fluid ozs. net., which was found to be occasion on which we are ahead of the correct. About 32 items were investigated United States of America. Who knows? by the Australian Consumers' Association, Perhaps that country will take this legislation and the cream that I have now mentioned and endeavour to copy it. Weights and Measures [21 SEPTEMBER] Acts Amendment Bill 575

In "Business Week" of 8 May, 1965, there great deal of pre-packed meat is now being is an article headed "Packagers rap Hart sold. The Minister said that a prosecution Bill". It says- cannot be launched successfully now if one "Not one to be discouraged, Senator does not buy from the owner, so we must Philip A. Hart (D-Mich.) has been trying endeavour to remedy all possible defects. I unsuccessfully since early 1963 to get his am confident that the Bill will achieve this. Truth in Packaging Bill passed. Strenu­ The Bill that Senator Hart is attempting ously objected to by packagers, the to have passed by the United States Senate measure, in theory, would make it easier seeks to introduce regulations to enable a for shoppers to tell from a label what ban to be imposed on "cents-off" promotions they are buying and for how much." and such stock-in-trade catchwords as "super" It goes on to say that the Bill was character­ half-quart and "giant" gallon. The Leader ised by one witness, Lee S. Bickmore, presi­ of the Opposition rightly drew attention to dent of National Biscuit Co., as "stupid". the untruthful representation in regard to a Hon. members opposite have mentioned "super-size" quart or, as it is referred to Kelloggs, and Lyle C. Roll, president of here, a "giant" gallon. It is either a gallon Kellogg Co., called the measure "both or it is not. The Bill in the United States unnecessary and unwise . . . a direct curb also seeks to impose restrictions on where, upon the marketing and promotional rights and in what size and colour of type, net of the manufacturer". Some packagers of contents of a package may be shown. products may tend to level a similar charge (Time expired.) against this Government or other Australian Governments, but I contend that any honest, Mr. §HJERRINGTON (Salisbury) (9.15 sincere person who is prepared to market p.m.): I suppose this would be one of the his product truthfully and sell it to the occasions on which every member in the public on the basis of quality and quantity Chamber is in complete agreement on the and competitively priced has no justifiable necessity and desirability of the legislation cause for alarm. that is being introduced. I feel that on this occasion the only cause for disagreement There appears to be little hope that the may be that members of the Opposition, Bill that Senator Hart hopes to pilot through after having studied the Bill, will possibly the United States Senate will be passed, think that the machinery contained in it although the administration is supporting it does not have sufficient punch, or teeth, to and Commerce Secretary Connor says the enforce the curbing of this very undesirable President strongly favours the measure. tendency and practice that has grown up in The president of Scott Paper Co., H. F. the community over a number of years. Dunning, minced no words in his opposi­ tion to the Bill, and A. N. Halverstadt, a I suppose, as Parliamentarians, we must preserve protocol and refer to these things Procter and Gamble vice-president, said he in parliamentary language. It is possibly fears new regulatory powers. Counsel because of this that we have referred to Robert E. Giles of the Commerce Depart­ these features of our economy as deceptive ment sees the Bill as a boon to consumers. packaging and so on, when the blunt truth Mr. Davies: What is the name of the Bill? is that it is no more than blatant fraud of the public. The public is being robbed Mr. HUGlliE§: The Truth in Packaging to the teeth. So I for one welcome this Bill. It is designed to protect consumers. occasion when legislation is being intro­ It aims at broadening the present powers duced to curb this blatant robbing of the of the Federal Trade Commission and Food public by the use of the deceptive package. and Drug Administration to police deceptive I do not think it would be inappropriate and fraudulent packaging and labelling, and to mention that this type of thing has unfor­ also aims to increase their existing power to tunately followed in the wake of the growth prosecute violations on a case-by-case basis of chain stores. In the days of the by blanket regulations over packaging and small stores the customer had great faith in labelling. the opinion of the storekeeper. If she chose I believe that the Minister for Labour to purchase some new product she relied on and Industry will have to explain to hon. the judgment and advice of the small store­ members how it is intended to police the keeper who, to all intents and purposes, was provisions of the proposed Bill. It is all an honest person who would give an honest very well to have a new Bill, but let us put opinion on his sales of the product, on its some teeth into it and ensure that it con­ quality, and so on. With the growth of tains sufficient power to enable disciplinary chain stores we have had to use these hidden action to be taken against those who tend persuaders and have instituted the system of to be over-enthusiastic, deceptive or question­ the silent salesman so that no longer is the able in the presentation of their company's customer able to turn to the advice of the shop products. attendant on particular lines. On the other hand, she is influenced by these hidden Mr. Davies: Do you mean only persuaders or what are commonly termed cosmetics? "silent salesmen". Mr. HUGHES: No; this covers all pro­ Mr. Hughes: This does not apply only to ducts, including meat. As we all know, a chain stores. 576 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

Mr. SHERRINGTON: The hon. member empty. The housewife carries this amount for Kurilpa made a very poor speech on a of space in her shopping basket. It is very important subject. I am certainly not transported all over Australia from ware­ going to have my train of thought interrupted house to retail stores in trucks, vans, by him. trains, and planes, all of which must be As I was saying, no longer can the paid for-and paid for by the consumer." customer obtain this advice. She is influenced Not only is the consumer being robbed by by what, in effect, are thieving claims, thiev­ deceptive packaging but the cost of the ing packages and definitely false and mis­ articles is being inflated. Because of the leading advertising. deception, freight charges to wherever the I have with me tonight only one of the six products are marketed are increased. volumes of the report of Mr. Cuthill, S.M., This seems to be the day of "Specials". and it is very interesting to peruse, first of I listened very attentively to the Minister all, some of the terms for the various sizes, but unfortunately there was a considerable many of which have been mentioned by the amount of noise in the Chamber at the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. time and I may have missed the point I am member for Kurilpa. It points out that about to refer to. there are giant size, extra long, tall 24-inch, On the matter of what we intend to do not regular 10 oz. but big 12 oz., hi-boy, about deceptive packaging in so far as the super king-size, long gallon, big gallon, printed matter is concerned, it is an every­ Queen-size, giant imperial quart, and so on. day occurrence to read about saving 3d. on There are even king-size TV cookies. I do not know whether they refer to some of the one article and 1s. on another, but this is long-haired artistes that appear on those only a lot of "hooey". The customer cannot shows. I often wonder where it is all determine what the price of an article means going to end. After listening to some of

that most of the industries in Australia which i. Packages that are sold at an equal indulge in this type of deceptive packaging, or higher price per ounce than the and which introduced this undesirable feature regular size. (Unquote)" to our community, had their beginnings in Those are the various forms of deception parent companies in America. If we go that are practised by the various merchandis­ back far enough in the history of the ing firms which operate not only in our State Australian companies that have introduced and country but also in other countries. the chain-store systems and deceptive packaging with the evils of misleading In the report in the Scale Journal, there advertising, we can usually find that their is this comment- roots are in monopolistic industries in the "The final right to ascertain the price United States of America. Is it any wonder per unit measure is most difficult, and that America is attempting to introduce honoured more in the breach today than legislation to protect the public iby cmbing in the observance. In fact, with the the machinations of these companies? evolution of the 'Economy Size' and 'King Size' packages, the so-called labelling could Mr. Hughes interjected. be classed as fraudulent at least." Those are very strong words. They are not Mr. SHERRINGTON: As the hon. my words. They are words that I am member for Kurilpa said, for many years quoting from the transcript of evidence Senator Hart has tried to have his Bill given by the Australian Consumers' Associa­ adopted. But it has met with such severe tion Ltd. at this investigation. They are resistance from these companies that he has words that were not said lightly because I made no real progress. feel that that association has done more over Again I refer to the Australian Con­ the years than any other body to bring sumers' Association Ltd.'s submission before before the notice of the buying public the Mr. Cuthill, where it says- many undesirable practices that are being "Your attention is respectfully drawn to adopted. a report in 'The Scale Journal' of April, Mr. Knox: And very helpful to the manu­ 1962, by Mr. L. H. Zahn, President of facturers, too. the Packaging Institute. This journal is the official journal of the U.S.A. Scale Mr. SHERRINGTON: That is true. I Trade, and gives some very interesting am not denying that. It probably has been facts relating to a Government sub­ helpful to manufacturers in that these highly committee called The Senate Anti-Trust undesirable practices have been brought to and Monopoly Sub-Committee on Packag­ their notice. This association has never been ing and Labelling Practices.' afraid to speak its mind. One way it has been helpful to the manufacturer, quite "Deceptive packaging was classed as plainly, is that if it felt the manufacturer's follows. Any packaging practices which product or method of packaging did not consisted of-(Quote) measure up to what should be expected, it a. Deliberate slack-fill packaging. did not hesitate not only to say it, but also to put it in print. b. Inconspicuous placement of required label information, such as net As I was saying earlier, this association weight. has possibly done more to assist the buying public than any other body, and, by its c. Excess package cushioning, effort, has gradually awakened the elected packages that are larger than reason­ members of Parliament to the necessity for ably necessary to protect their contents. legislation throughout the Commonwealth d. Use by competing manufacturers that will correct the many undesirable of same sized packages containing practices that have been adopted. various product weights. l\1any packaged items have been dealt with tonight, and when we speak of packaging e. The practice of odd fractional our thoughts turn naturally to such things ounce weights which differ from one as breakfast cereals. Approximately four company's package to another and years ago I became interested in this matter make it virtually impossible for shoppers of deceptive packaging. On two or three to calculate accurate costs of weight occasions I have dealt with it in this Chamber, rates. and on one occasion I brought here a case f. Introduction of new packages which full of samples. One of the very common are the same size and the same price forms of deception is found in Vaseline Hair as before, but which contain less pro­ Tonic. I do not use the name of this duct and which do not provide easily article for any special reason as I do not visible statement of content reduction. think that any producer of these commo­ dities is any less guilty. I think they all g. Misleading label information as to indulge in it. In addition to being marketed the number of servings in a food container. in an extra large carton the bottle is made of thick glass, and I think I proved con­ h. Confusing and sometimes con­ clusively to the Chamber on that occasion tradictory use of such adjectives as that the amount of hair oil in the bottle giant, jumbo, economy size. was sufficient to fill only a small test tube. 19 578 Weights and Measures [ASSEMBLY] Acts Amendment Bill

I have a very vivid recollection of the to overcome many of the undesirable prac­ purchase of some muscatel table raisins by tices that are being carried on in connection a member of my family on one occasion at with articles in the retail trade and then to Christmas-time at Maroochydore. When I police the provisions of the legislation measured the container I found that it had strictly. an outside capacity of 42 cubic inches yet the I believe that the standardisation of capacity of the inside of the carton was only measurements under Australian control is 24 cubic inches, or just about half the total very desirable. Although it means breaking capacity. away from English standards, I think that, All in all, I think that this legislation is as a self-supporting nation with a population timely; indeed, this sort of thing has gone of about 10,000,000 people which is taking on for so many years that I think it comes its place in world affairs, we should have a little late. As I said earlier in my our own standa;rds and that they should be remarks, possibly the only cause for dis­ applicable over the whole country. agreement with the Bill will be if its clauses While we are dealing with standards, are not worded in a way that makes abso­ perhaps we could consider standardising the lutely sure that some inroads will be made units shown on articles sold to the general into these very undesirable practices that public. At times one is told that a ton of have been going on. this item or a ton of that item will cost so Before I resume my seat, I feel that I much. When one gets down to the tons, must refer to the deception that goes on in one finds that they are American tons, not the marketing of soft drinks. The Leader of British tons. Some of the lighter things the Opposition spoke of the advertisements are measured in ounces, and they are really seen on television in which a number of avoirdupois, not troy weight. One frequently glasses of "Coke" are poured from one assumes the wrong thing. When the bottle. Quite blatantly the glasses are shown proposed provisions come into effect, I hope to be half-filled with ice. This is the type that the weight of the various articles sold of deception that is foisted on the public. will be given in the most appropriate size About three glasses of "Coke" can be and weight unit for the size of the packet. obtained from a bottle, yet the viewer is For instance, if an article is in a large told that five or four glasses can be obtained, packet, I do not think the weight should be depending on the size of the glasses. given in a very small measure. It should •be given in a way that will be easily under­ The same deception is seen at soft-drink stood by the majority of the public. counters. A customer asks for an orange drink or a raspberry drink. Three-quarters The Minister referred to the packaging of of the glass is filled with ice and then water meat and said that under the Act it is very and a little cordial are added, and the full difficult to launch prosecutions because the soft-drink price is paid for three-quarters of owners ar·e completely covered. I believe a _glass of ordinary iced water. that any person who defrauds the public should be taken to task. With most of the Mr. Murray: It is obviously safer to stick packet meats that are sold, the price per lb. to beer. is usually given and also the actual weight of the packet and the total price. I have Mr. SHERRINGTON: That depends on no quarrel with that. However, it appears the company one keeps. I do not drink that more and more packaged meat is being lolly-water myself. Let us face the facts; sold, and I suggest to the Minister that, when this is deception of the public. he considers the weight of packaged meats, The provisions of the Bill will have to be he should also consider showing the date on policed very strictly if any real progress is which the meat was packed. Quite often, to be made. It would be comparatively easy meat particularly could be left in the for a Government or its inspectors to refrigerator unit, or whatever it is kept in determine whether the packages of various over a period of time, and the public could products sold to the public conformed to be buying meat that has not only lost its the required standard as laid down in the quality but is affected by drying-out and Act. However, as I mentioned earlier, the other things. I suggest to the Minister that question of false and misleading advertising he review the regulations concerning that of drinks for sale to the public also arises. point. The Minister also referred to the fact that I am reliably informed, too, that one in advertising the statement of quantity is to ·brand of a type of ke.Jblock on a stick that appear in close proximity to the adjectives is sold to the public at 5d. costs so little to used to describe the package. I can see a manufacture that it is impossible to cost it certain weakness in that. There is nothing accurately. to stop an advertiser from using "Giant (Time expired.) size" or any other words of a certain height but of a lot greater width than the statement Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (9.41 p.m.): I indicating the quantity of the product. Quite support the remarks of the Leader of the an effect could be obtained by using a wide Opposition and the hon. member for letter as well as a high letter and then, when Salisbury on the proposed Bill. I realise, as it comes to the weight, putting it in at only they do, that it is very difficult to legislate the required height, but in very fine lettering Weights and Measures (21 SEPTEMBER) Acts Amendment Bill 579

so that it gets away from the purchaser's soap powder or something else was mar­ eye. It might be necessary to have some keted at a particular price. You can go relationship between the height and the into one store where an article is advertised width so far as the size of the packet and at "4d. off" and selling at a certain price, the weight of the actual commodity are but when you go into another store it will concerned. When we refer to weight, I take be selling as a "special", still marked "4d. it we refer to the weight of the actual off" but at an entirely different price. Other commodity and not to the package. States, particularly South Australia, have Quite often I have found on packages­ aone further than we have. They have tried particularly recently-that the words "net" to stamp out the practice of advertising or "gross" have been perhaps accidentally "below cost" and all that type of thing by omitted. The words are not there, anyway, allowing anyone to buy in unlimited numbers. and quite often this is another means of I think that is something that we should deluding the public. look at here. When the stores advertise ·'specials" they are not offering them purely I think the Minister also said that a and simply for the customer's benefit but person who owns a shop will be .held respon­ for their own. These practices apply not sible for packaged meat and the hke. I suggest only to packaged goods but to many other that we consider making these same people items sold in the ordinary retail stores. responsible for selling any article at all that When shoes, suits and other clothing are does not conform to the Act and the regula­ advertised at sales how often does the tions. I have in mind that this Act and these intending purchaser find that he cannot find regulations are uniform throughout the anything his size, but if he goes back a Commonwealth. I believe they are applied few days later the same articles are still to any package and article manufactur~d there but to buy similar clothing of his own within the Commonwealth, not necessanly size he has to pay a higher price? within our own State, but what about pack­ ages that are imported from overseas? Will I do not want to delay the debate but I this legislation apply to those, too? wanted to put these thoughts before the Minister. What we commonly call dishonest Mr. Hughes interjected. advertising is not only causing housewives Mr. HOUSTON: That is quite right. and others to buy articles they may not want; There is nothing to say definitely that that one of the worst features of it is that it is is deceptive as it is at present, whereas, if increasing prices to the stage where the the importer or the indent agent handling original cost of the article has no relation the article, or the shop-owner, was made to the price at which it is finally sold. Not responsible, we would have not only on only is the packaging larger, but all the the manufacturer but on the person selling the transport costs and handling charges are article, the onus to see that the right thing higher. All these additional costs are passed was done. on and as the cost factor goes up so the actual amount of profit by the various people In the case of literature, if a book is who handle it goes up. If something origin­ banned we hold responsible not only the ally cost ls., after adding 25 per cent. to it, publisher but also the person who has the and by the time four or five people have book for sale. I suggest that in order to handled it, the final price has gone up to make this Bill watertight, as it should be, about ls. lOd. For an article that cost the people who manufacture these articles, those who distribute them and those who sell ls. 6d. to produce, the purchaser might them to the public, should be equally respon­ finish up paying about 2s. 5d. I have no sible and liable to prosecution. After all, it great fight about one organisation trying to is the public we are trying to protect, not outsell another, but it is completely wrong the person who makes a profit out of the that in their fighting tradesmen and house­ article. When we consider packages that wives should be adversely affected. are wrongly labelled, or labelled in a way to Hon. J. D. HERBERT (Sherwood­ deceive it is not only the manufacturer who Minister for Labour and Industry) (9.55 makes 'a profit out of the deception. The p.m.), in reply: Some of the discussion on distributor makes a further profit as a result this motion has gone a little beyond my of carrying on the deception, and the owner introductory remarks. Nevertheless, it has of the store that sells them, be it a chain store or a small store, also makes a profit been a particularly interesting debate. through the same deception. The Leader of the Opposition and several other hon. members referred to "Choice". I agree with the hon. member for Salis­ I recommend to every hon. member in the bury that this type of thing seems to be Chamber who does not get this magazine to becoming every-day practice with the chain place his name on the mailing list. I have stores more than with what we call the subscribed to it for years in a private corne; stores. Very rarely do we go into capacity. The department also gets it and the corner store and find large displays of the officers carefully examine all the articles "Special" items on sale at great discounts. contained in it. Quite a deal of the infor­ Whenever I see "So much off" it makes me mation is particularly valuable. As a matter wonder what the original price of the article of fact, I think it was "Choice" which was. Thinking back, I cannot remember brought to the notice of the Department of when I first saw that a particular brand of Health the fact that some tooth-pastes were 580 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions marketed in lead containers and that traces of the lead were to be found in the tooth­ paste. I should like to refer to some points which were raised by the Leader of the Opposition. First, he spoke about the design of packages. This is a marketing function only. The Department of Weights and Measures does not control marketing func­ tions. We can control the wording as it applies to the weights contained therein. In its simplest form the Bill conforms to the requirements of the National Standards Act divorcing the standards of weights and measures in this country from the Imperial standards. The provisions relating to liability of the owner have reference to uniform packag­ ing regulations presently being framed for adoption by all States, but this Bill itself does not deal with packaging. There was quite a deal of discussion tonight about packaging, which is not dealt with in this legislation. I was very careful to mention in detail what is proposed in some respects and the progress made in the preparation of the uniform packaging regulations, and it has been very interesting to hear the remarks of hon. members. I should imagine that these regulations will be particularly acceptable. It was obvious at the Ministers' conference on this matter that there was a great deal of agreement amongst members of varying political affiliations. The last conference was a particularly favourable one. When the regulations come down I think they will receive the unanimous support of all hon. members in this Chamber. I think I can postpone my remarks on the other submissions until the second-reading stage of the Bill. Motion (Mr. Herbert) agreed to. Resolution reported.

FIRST READING Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Herbert, read a first time. The House adjourned at 10 p.m.