LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9231
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 8 May 2019
The Council met at Eleven o'clock
MEMBERS PRESENT:
THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.
PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.
9232 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI
THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.
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DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG
DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN
THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN
DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.
IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN
THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN
THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK
THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING
THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING
THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI
THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.
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THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN
DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG
THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI
THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO
THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI
THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN
MEMBERS ABSENT:
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN
THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN
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PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:
THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION
THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., M.H., J.P. FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE MS TERESA CHENG YEUK-WAH, G.B.S., S.C., J.P. SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE
THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY
MR JOSEPH CHAN HO-LIM, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY, AND SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY
DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE
THE HONOURABLE JOSHUA LAW CHI-KONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING
PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
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THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT
THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION
THE HONOURABLE PATRICK NIP TAK-KUEN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS
DR DAVID CHUNG WAI-KEUNG, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY
DR BERNARD CHAN PAK-LI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
DR CHUI TAK-YI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH
MR JACK CHAN JICK-CHI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:
MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL
MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber)
PAPERS TO BE LAID ON THE TABLE OF THE COUNCIL
The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:
Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments Legal Notice No.
District Councils Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 7) Order 2019 ...... 64 of 2019
Maximum Amount of Election Expenses (District Council Election) (Amendment) Regulation 2019 ...... 65 of 2019
Protected Places (Amendment) Order 2019 ...... 66 of 2019
Protected Places (Safety) (Authorized Guards) (Amendment) Order 2019 ...... 67 of 2019
Military Installations Closed Areas (Amendment) Order 2019 ...... 68 of 2019
Shipping and Port Control (Amendment) Regulation 2019 ...... 69 of 2019
Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (General) (Amendment) Regulation 2019 ...... 70 of 2019
Other Papers
Gifted Education Fund Financial statements for the year ended 31 August 2018 (including Report of the Director of Audit)
9238 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Financial Reporting Council Annual Report 2018 (including Financial Statements and Report of the Director of Audit)
Supplemental Report of the Public Accounts Committee on Report No.71 of the Director of Audit on the Results of Value for Money Audits (May 2019––P.A.C. Report No. 71A)
Report No. 16/18-19 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments
ADDRESS
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Address. Mr Abraham SHEK will address the Council on the "Public Accounts Committee Report No. 71A".
Supplemental Report of the Public Accounts Committee on Report No. 71 of the Director of Audit on the Results of Value for Money Audits (May 2019―P.A.C. Report No. 71A)
MR ABRAHAM SHEK: President, on behalf of the Public Accounts Committee ("the Committee"), I have the honour to table our Report No. 71A.
This is the Committee's second report on the Director of Audit's Report No. 71. It contains our conclusions and recommendations on the Chapter "Centre for Food Safety: Import control of foods". The first report which focused on another related chapter on the management of food safety was tabled in the Council in February this year.
In 2017, over 90% of foods and live food animals for human consumption in Hong Kong were imported. According to the Government's published trade statistics, the total value of imported foods in 2017 was more than $200 billion. In the past five years, expenditure on the Centre for Food Safety ("CFS") had increased by 32% from $448 million to $592 million, more than 50% of which was spent on the import control of foods.
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Import control is of paramount importance to ensuring effective food safety control in Hong Kong. CFS has set up food control offices across the territory to carry out established procedures for controlling the import of foods via air, road and sea. Guidelines and Operational Manual have been prepared to assist CFS staff in carrying out their duties.
The Committee expresses grave dismay and finds it unacceptable that CFS staff have not followed the established procedures in the import control of foods as evidenced by a number of incidents revealed in the Audit Report. The Committee also considers that the CFS management and supervisory staff have failed to ensure their frontline staff's compliance with the guidelines and Operational Manual. In one serious case which is still under investigation by CFS, the Audit Commission revealed that in five inspections on food samples imported by air, the food samples were preselected for radiation tests by importers. This is contrary to the guidelines that the samples should be randomly selected by CFS staff.
The Committee also expresses grave dismay and finds it unacceptable that CFS has not proactively reviewed its practices, systems and the Operational Manual to identify the deficiencies. Various problems and shortcomings could not be addressed in a timely manner and effectively. One example as revealed by the Audit Commission was the evasion of inspection by vehicles at the Man Kam To Food Control Office. The Audit Commission discovered that nine vehicles had at least once evaded CFS inspection at the Control Office and two vehicles had never been driven into the Control Office for CFS inspection of the consignments. Of these vehicles, it was further discovered that seven vehicles which had actually entered the Control Office were not shown in the CFS inspection records because their vehicle registration numbers had been wrongly entered into the CFS inspection records. The Committee urges CFS to set up a mechanism to review the workflows at various food control offices in order to identify whether they could achieve their intended purposes and are practical.
The Committee notes that CFS created a time-limited post of Senior Principal Executive Officer in 2017 for a period of seven years to head a dedicated team to take forward the recasting and re-engineering of workflow and an overhaul of information technology systems to substantially strengthen its data management and analysis for food safety control. In this regard, the Committee urges CFS to make good use of this new dedicated team to conduct a comprehensive review to rationalize and simplify the workflows associated with 9240 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 the import control of foods. The work of the dedicated team should be expedited and any recommendations made by the team should be implemented as soon as possible.
Lastly, I wish to record my appreciation of the contributions made by members of the Committee. Our gratitude also goes to the witnesses who attended the hearings held by the Committee. I would like to express our gratitude to the Director of Audit and his colleagues for their unfailing support. Lastly, I would like to thank the Secretariat for their hard work.
Thank you, President.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Employment benefits for non-skilled workers engaged under the Government's outsourced service contracts
1. MR POON SIU-PING (in Chinese): President, on 10 October last year, the Government announced a number of measures to enhance the employment benefits for non-skilled workers engaged under the Government's outsourced service contracts ("outsourced workers") tendered on or after 1 April this year ("enhancement measures"). As for those service contracts which (i) were under the tendering stage during the transitional period from 10 October last year to 31 March this year and (ii) had been awarded under the old terms, the Government would make transitional arrangements in the hope that more outsourced workers could be benefited. On the other hand, the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") has, in recent years, awarded outsourced service contracts through tenders with a validity period of six years, during which the contracts with the relevant contractors may be renewed once every two or three years ("renewable contract arrangement"). Some workers engaged by such contractors have relayed that they have not benefited from the enhancement measures. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the government departments which currently adopt, when outsourcing services, tender conditions that include the renewable contract arrangement;
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(2) whether those outsourced service contracts awarded under the renewable contract arrangement are covered by the enhancement measures; if so, whether HA and the relevant government departments will discuss with the contractors concerned the expeditious implementation of such measures; if not, of the reasons for that, and whether there are initiatives to enable the workers concerned to benefit from the enhancement measures; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(3) of the respective current numbers of outsourced service contracts, awarded under the renewable contract arrangement (a) within the transitional period and (b) after 1 April this year, which were not covered by the enhancement measures, and set out in a table the following details of each contract:
(i) type of service(s) (e.g. cleansing, security or property management),
(ii) name of the procuring government department (e.g. the Housing Department),
(iii) name of contractor,
(iv) service district,
(v) number of outsourced workers, and
(vi) the commencement and expiry dates of the contract and the tender?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, having consulted the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") and relevant procuring departments, the consolidated reply is as follows:
According to the information provided by the relevant procuring departments, currently all of the service contracts that rely heavily on the deployment of non-skilled workers ("non-skilled worker contracts") awarded by tender have not incorporated the special provisions adopted by HA for contract 9242 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 renewal arrangement. Departments should, upon contract expiry, award new contracts through tendering with new measures incorporated to protect the employment benefits of non-skilled workers.
HA, with the Housing Department as its executive arm, is a statutory body responsible for developing and implementing public housing programmes. HA is not subject to government procurement regulations. That said, it will make reference to government practices and adopt applicable principles and practices in its own system and regulations.
To protect non-skilled workers, HA, in awarding non-skilled worker contracts, requires service contractors to adopt the Standard Employment Contract ("SEC") promulgated by the Labour Department. To tie in with the Government's new measures to protect the benefits of non-skilled workers, HA will adopt the newly revised SEC in all relevant contracts and make reference to the transitional arrangements announced by the Government, where appropriate.
According to HA, most of its existing non-skilled worker contracts have a duration of two to three years, with special provisions incorporated whereby service contractors fulfilling the requirements of contract renewal may, subject to mutual agreement upon contract expiry, have their contracts extended for one to two times in the original terms (unless otherwise specified), while the period of extension will depend on the contract terms. To protect non-skilled workers, HA will also require service contractors to sign the new SEC with their non-skilled workers when relevant contracts are extended under the special provisions.
Prevention and control of ants
2. DR HELENA WONG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that a scholar in biology and ecology found ants belonging to the species of Brachymyrmex patagonicus in Hung Hom in November last year. The scholar pointed out that such species of ants was non-native to Hong Kong and would build nests in buildings. It would be difficult to eradicate the species if its population was to proliferate. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
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(1) whether it found any Brachymyrmex patagonicus ants in Hong Kong last year; if so, set out the relevant details by district;
(2) whether it will regularly monitor if ants of such species are found in various districts and publish the relevant data; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) of the measures in place to assist the public in dealing with the situation in which ants of such species are found at home and the community;
(4) of the measures in place to enable the public to grasp more information on whether the various species of ants are harmful to human being; and
(5) whether it will draw reference from overseas countries' quarantine work carried out on inbound aircraft and vessels, with a view to preventing the invasion of non-native pests; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President,
(1) and (2)
Brachymyrmex patagonicus is a general nuisance pest originated from South America. Like other ant species, Brachymyrmex patagonicus is not a vector for transmission of human diseases and poses no threat to public health, building structures or ecological environment. The Government therefore does not regularly monitor its whereabouts. The Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") received a report of Brachymyrmex patagonicus at an estate in Hung Hom in mid-December last year. Apart from that, the Government did not receive any other report of such species of ant in other places of Hong Kong.
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(3) and (4)
Handling of Brachymyrmex patagonicus is no different from that of ants in general. As sweet food attracts ants, keeping homes clean and storing sweet food in tightly sealed containers can avoid inviting ants. If ants are found at home, control measures targeted on household ants may be used, and appropriate registered pesticides may be applied when necessary. Professional pest control companies may be hired to provide ant control services.
The Food and Environmental Hygiene Department has provided on its website information on ants and ant control measures(1) as well as information on selecting a pest control company(2) for easy reference.
(5) Currently, plant quarantine measures implemented in Hong Kong aim at controlling plant pests. According to the Plant (Importation and Pest Control) Ordinance (Cap. 207), no person shall import any plant pest or any plant infected by or infested with a plant pest unless authorized by the Director of Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation. AFCD is responsible for the enforcement of the Ordinance with the assistance of the Customs and Excise Department. Plant Health Inspectors of AFCD stationed at entry points inspect consignments of imported plants, plant products and growing medium to ensure that they are accompanied by valid import documents and free from plant pests. If pests are found in a consignment, AFCD will reject its import and order to carry out quarantine treatment or destroy the consignment. The Government will continue to keep abreast of studies on prevention of non-native pest invasion, draw reference from other places and take appropriate measures as and when required.
(1)
(2)
Noise nuisance caused by music performances in parks
3. MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that from time to time, quite a number of people stage music performances without permission in the parks under the Leisure and Cultural Services LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9245
Department ("LCSD"), and some performers generate loud noise by using amplifiers during their performances. For many years, Tuen Mun Park has been a black spot of music performances causing noise nuisance. Notwithstanding that LCSD has set up, at corners in the Park that are far away from residential areas, two self-entertainment zones for registered music activities without the use of amplifiers, very few music performers have applied for the use of the zones. They continue to use amplifiers to stage performances elsewhere in the Park, thereby causing noise nuisance to visitors and nearby residents. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the respective numbers of persons staging music performances in the parks under LCSD who were (i) issued warning letters by LCSD under the Noise Control Guidelines and (ii) prosecuted by the Noise Control Authority under the Noise Control Ordinance (Cap. 400), in the past three years for generating excessive noise; the number of convictions and, among them, the number of cases of repeated offences;
(2) whether the persons who stage performances, (i) with or (ii) without permission respectively, in the parks under LCSD and receive rewards or remunerations contravene the Pleasure Grounds Regulation (Cap. 132BC) or other legislation; and
(3) of the respective numbers of applications received and approved by LCSD in the past three years for staging performances in the self-entertainment zones in Tuen Mun Park; given that the authorities have recently proposed that Cap. 132BC be amended for more effective control of the noise nuisance problem in the parks under LCSD, whether LCSD has assessed if such measure can eradicate the noise problem caused by music performers staging performances in Tuen Mun Park?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, my reply to Mr KWONG Chun-yu's question is as follows:
(1) The noises referred to in the "Noise Control Guidelines" fall under the regulation of the Noise Control Ordinance (Cap. 400), the provisions of which are enforced by the Director of Environmental 9246 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Protection and the Commissioner of Police. The Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") takes enforcement actions in its public pleasure grounds ("PPGs") to step up regulation of noise nuisance primarily under section 25 of the Pleasure Grounds Regulation (Cap. 132BC).
Section 25 of the Pleasure Grounds Regulation stipulates that "Save where the Director has, in writing, permitted the operation or playing of, or the making of any sounds by means of, any such instrument or the singing of any song, no person shall, in any pleasure ground, to the annoyance of any other user thereof operate or play, or make any sounds on, any musical or other instrument, including any gramophone or radio apparatus or sing any song."
Under normal circumstances, members of the public who play music instruments or sing songs in parks for self-entertainment will not be interfered by park keepers as long as these activities do not cause nuisance to other venue users. However, when excessive noise is generated from the activities and a complaint of annoyance is lodged to LCSD, management staff of the venue will advise the person concerned to lower the volume. If the advice is ignored, the management staff will, having regard to the actual circumstances, consider instigating prosecution against the person(s) in breach of the regulation under section 25 of the Pleasure Grounds Regulation when there is a venue user who had been annoyed willing to act as prosecution witness and there is sufficient evidence. There were two successful prosecutions involving Tuen Mun Park in the past three years.
(2) At present, the Pleasure Grounds Regulation and other legislation do not prohibit members of the public from tipping others in the form of "lai see" in parks. Hence, performers who accept "lai see" from members of the public in parks are not in breach of the legislation. However, it is up to the court to adjudicate each prosecution case with regard to the circumstances of the case and evidences found.
LCSD will issue a letter of approval to the successful group applicant for using a LCSD venue for non-designated activities (e.g. performance activities). The letter will set out the conditions LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9247
for hiring the leisure venue for non-designated use. For example, the hirer shall not allow any distribution or sale of refreshments or commodities, or charge admission fees or solicit donations from participants in the activity, or accept any form of pecuniary reward except prior permission has been given by LCSD. LCSD may demand the hirer to surrender the venue if the hirer breaches any of the department's conditions of use.
(3) Two self-entertainment zones and one Amphitheatre in Tuen Mun Park are available for application by groups for singing activities, etc. The numbers of applications received and approved regarding the above mentioned self-entertainment zones and Amphitheatre in the past three years (May 2016 to April 2019) are set out in the table below:
Number of Number of approved applications applications
Year Total Total
- - Self zone Self zone Amphitheatre Amphitheatre entertainment entertainment Entertainment
May 2016 to April 2017 423 745 1 168 370 304 674 May 2017 to April 2018 382 699 1 081 372 297 669 May 2018 to April 2019 390 812 1 202 370 279 649 Total: 1 195 2 256 3 451 1 112 880 1 992
LCSD has been monitoring closely the noise nuisance problem and implemented a number of noise control measures such as designating suitable areas for activities by singing groups, conducting joint operation with the Police, strengthening manpower to monitor singing activities and drawing up house rules to regulate the use of speakers in designated parks, so as to mitigate and regulate the noise nuisance in parks. At present, if enforcement action is taken by LCSD under section 25 of the Pleasure Ground Regulation, it has to be established that a "venue user" had been annoyed, and the venue 9248 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
user has to be willing to serve as a prosecution witness. To address public demand for proper and effective regulation of noise nuisance in parks, we propose a simple legislative amendment to section 25 of Cap. 132BC by replacing "user thereof" with "person". The amendment will help promote responsible and respectful behaviours in PPGs and deter the irresponsible use of loudspeakers and similar equipment which cause annoyance to other park users, nearby residents or park keepers. Under the proposed amendment, LCSD park keepers and any other persons (in particular the nearby residents) who are annoyed by the noise may act as prosecution witnesses in LCSD's enforcement action. For more effective regulation of noise nuisance in PPGs, we aim to table the amendment regulation at meeting of the Legislative Council for negative vetting within this year.
Prices for private health care services
4. MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, in 2016, the Government rolled out, in collaboration with the Hong Kong Private Hospitals Association, a pilot programme for enhancing price transparency of private hospitals through a number of measures ("the pilot programme"). In November last year, this Council enacted the Private Healthcare Facilities Ordinance (Cap. 633), which contains provisions for regulating price transparency of private healthcare facilities ("PHFs"), but the relevant subsidiary legislation has yet to be made. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it will, prior to the implementation of Cap. 633, enhance the pilot programme, such as requiring the various private hospitals to adopt a uniform format for publicizing on their websites information on prices for healthcare services, so as to facilitate comparisons to be made by members of the public; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) as it is stipulated in section 61 of Cap. 633 that the licensee of a PHF must make available to the public, in the way prescribed by regulations, information about the prices of chargeable items and services provided in the facility as prescribed by regulations, of the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9249
timetable for and progress of enacting the relevant regulations; whether it will expedite the implementation of the relevant provisions; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) as some members of the public are worried that the Voluntary Health Insurance Scheme ("VHIS") which has been implemented since last month will push up the prices for private healthcare services, whether the Government will (i) step up the regulation of the prices for private healthcare services, and (ii) require PHFs to provide healthcare services at packaged prices for members of the public who have joined VHIS to choose; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) whether it will consider enacting legislation to empower the Director of Health to vet and approve the prices for different classes of wards in private hospitals, so as to ensure that such prices are set at reasonable levels; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, my reply to the questions raised by Mr Tommy CHEUNG is as follows:
(1) and (2)
In October 2016, the Government together with the Hong Kong Private Hospitals Association rolled out a Pilot Programme for Enhancing Price Transparency for Private Hospitals ("the Pilot Programme"). All private hospitals in Hong Kong have participated in the Pilot Programme and implemented three price transparency measures on a voluntary basis, namely publicizing the fee schedules of major chargeable items, publicizing the historical bill sizes statistics of 30 common treatments/procedures, and providing budget estimates for patients receiving 30 common and non-emergency treatments/procedures.
A number of improvements have been made to the Pilot Programme since introduction with a view to providing the public with more user-friendly price information. According to the current proposal under the Pilot Programme, private hospitals have to publish the price information of specified items with respect to all room classes 9250 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
and day/outpatient services. Private hospitals should also publish historical bill sizes statistics of 30 common treatments/procedures in a standardized format, which covers annual number of discharges, average length of stay, as well as the actual billing data for the 50th percentile and 90th percentile of each specified treatment/procedure. In addition, private hospitals have to provide budget estimate on a pilot basis according to the specified format recommended by the Department of Health. All private hospitals have uploaded relevant information to their dedicated web pages as requested under the Pilot Programme. The Department of Health has set up a dedicated website on the Pilot Programme
The Private Healthcare Facilities Ordinance (Cap. 633) ("The Ordinance") was gazetted on 30 November 2018. The Ordinance stipulates the price transparency measures which the licensees of private health care facilities (including private hospitals) have to comply with, and empowers the Secretary for Food and Health to make regulations to provide for relevant matters. We are now working on the details of the proposed regulations in consultation with stakeholders, taking into account the experience gained from the Pilot Programme. Our target is to submit the relevant regulations to the Legislative Council for scrutiny in late 2019/early 2020.
(3) and (4)
The Government is committed to enhancing price transparency of private health care facilities, so that the public could be better informed of price information before making decisions in meeting their medical needs, and make necessary financial arrangements in advance. Nonetheless, as private medical service by its very nature is no different from other business transactions between consenting parties where prices are determined by market force, the Government will not regulate the price level or price structure of services provided by private health care facilities. Allowing the market to determine prices on its own also encourages competition in terms of service quality and efficiency among health care services providers.
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In addition to enhancing the price transparency of private health care facilities, the Government will continue to encourage private hospitals to provide more services at packaged charges. The provision of services at packaged charges will enhance price certainty and facilitate patients to make financial arrangements in advance. The Gleneagles Hong Kong Hospital, as well as the Chinese University of Hong Kong Medical Centre which will soon commence service, provide a certain percentage of services at packaged charges according to the relevant Service Deeds. We also encourage existing private hospitals undergoing expansion/redevelopment projects and new private hospitals to be developed mainly on private land to consider accepting special requirements, such as provision of services at packaged charges, as a means to enhancing the quality of private health care services which cater for public needs.
The Voluntary Health Insurance Scheme ("VHIS") aims to regulate indemnity hospital insurance plans offered to individuals and enhance the quality and transparency of such plans. Certified Plans must meet the minimum benefit standard prescribed by VHIS. For example, the basic protection of Certified Plans should adopt standardized policy terms and conditions, as well as basic benefit coverage and benefit amounts. VHIS does not mandate private health care facilities to provide consumers of Certified Plans with health care services at packaged charges. Nonetheless, in order to facilitate consumers to prepare for their budget, upon receipt of the estimated charges provided for non-emergency surgical procedures, the insurers should provide consumers with claimable amount estimates of the procedures concerned for consumers' reference.
Land Sharing Pilot Scheme
5. MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Chinese): President, the Chief Executive has proposed in the 2018 Policy Address the Land Sharing Pilot Scheme ("LSPS"), which seeks to unlock privately owned agricultural lots in the New Territories for both public and private housing development in the short-to-medium term. The Government is currently formulating the details of LSPS. According to the Government's initial thinking, "land sharing" 9252 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 applications will be put before the Land and Development Advisory Committee ("LDAC") for advice and then submitted to the Chief Executive in Council ("CE-in-Council") for final vetting and approval. In addition, applicants must comply with all applicable statutory procedures and land administration regimes, including submitting rezoning or planning applications to the Town Planning Board ("TPB"). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether CE-in-Council will, apart from conducting final vetting and approval for "land sharing" applications, conduct preliminary vetting and approval for such applications; if so, at which stage; if such preliminary vetting and approval is to be conducted prior to TPB's vetting and approval of the relevant matters, how the Government ensures that such a scenario will not subject TPB to the pressure of giving its green light; and
(2) given that LDAC will provide advice to the Government on "land sharing" applications, but there are public opinions querying that some LDAC members have a close relationship with real estate developers or own agricultural lots,
(i) whether the Government will make public the records on declaration of interests by LDAC members; and
(ii) of the measures, other than the existing declaration of interests system, put in place by the Government which may prevent LDAC members from having a conflict of interests in handling the relevant applications?
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Chief Executive outlined the Land Sharing Pilot Scheme ("LSPS") in the 2018 Policy Address which seeks to unlock the development potential of privately owned agricultural lots in the New Territories for both public and private housing development through public-private partnership. We will adopt a set of criteria and procedures based on fairness and high transparency in handling applications under LSPS and selecting suitable projects. The Government is in the process of drawing up more specific criteria and other implementation details of LSPS, including the basic requirements which must be fulfilled by the applications, work flow in vetting applications including alignment with existing statutory LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9253 procedures and land administration regime, as well as the relevant advisory set-up for LSPS and its operational arrangements (including the mechanism for declaration of interest and disclosure arrangement). We will later brief the relevant panel of the Legislative Council and professional sectors on the proposed arrangements and listen to their views, and submit the proposed arrangements to the Chief Executive in Council for approval, with a view to inviting applications in the second half of 2019.
My reply to various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) The Government has stated clearly on previous occasions that all applications under LSPS have to comply with the applicable statutory procedures and requirements under the land administration regime, including submitting applications to the Town Planning Board ("TPB") in relation to changes in land uses or increasing development intensity in accordance with the Town Planning Ordinance (Cap. 131), and paying to the Government land premium at full market value in respect of the private housing and ancillary commercial facilities. Under this guiding principle, TPB will continue to perform effectively its functions in handling the planning aspect of the applications concerned.
(2) As an advisory body to the Government, the Land and Development Advisory Committee ("LDAC") is tasked to advise the Government on land and development matters. At present, the non-official members of LDAC comprise representatives from trade and professional organizations, as well as persons from other fields such as social services, legal services, academia, etc. The LDAC members must make declarations in accordance with the established declaration of interest system. The declarations so made are not open for public inspection at present. The mechanism of the Committee is largely in line with that applicable to other government advisory bodies. As mentioned above, when formulating the details of LSPS, we will consider the relevant advisory mechanism as well as the appropriate declaration of interest and disclosure arrangements.
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Issuance of local certificates of competency by the Marine Department
6. MR STEVEN HO (in Chinese): President, the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (Certification and Licensing) Regulation (Cap. 548 sub.leg. D) stipulates that a Class I, II or III vessel that is fitted with any propulsion engines shall not be underway, unless there is on board a person in charge of the vessel who is the holder of a local certificate of competency ("CoC") as a coxswain appropriate for the vessel or any equivalent certificates specified in the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (Local Certificates of Competency) Rules ("the Rules"). On the other hand, the Rules provide that CoCs shall cease to have effect upon the holder attaining the age of 65. According to Marine Department Notice No. 12 of 2018 ("the Notice"), CoC holders who wish to have their CoCs' validity period extended beyond the date of attaining the age of 65 are required to submit an application to the Seafarers' Certification Section of the Marine Department ("MD") within six months prior to attaining the age of 65. Quite a number of fishermen who have attained the age of 65 have sought my assistance, saying that they did not apply for the extension of the validity period of CoCs in a timely manner as no expiry date was stated on their CoCs which were issued in or before the 1980s, coupled with reasons such as they have neither received the relevant notifications from the Government nor noticed the Rules and the Notice published by the Government. Regarding the issuance of CoCs by MD, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the respective numbers of CoC holders in each of the past five years, who reached 65 in the year and, within the six months prior to their attaining the age of 65, (i) did not apply for the extension of the validity period of CoCs, and (ii) had applied for the extension of the validity period of CoCs but the applications were rejected;
(2) whether the Government, in each of the past five years, reminded CoC holders who were about to attain the age of 65 to apply for the extension of the validity period of CoCs; if so, of the channels through which such reminders were made and the percentage of CoC holders reminded;
(3) given that holders of vehicle driving licences may apply for renewal of their driving licences within three years from the expiry dates without undergoing a driving test, why a similar arrangement has not been made for CoCs; whether such an arrangement will be made for CoCs;
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(4) given that holders of expired CoCs used to be qualified to navigate or operate a local vessel, whether the Government will stipulate that for them to be issued CoCs again, they are required to pass a navigation examination only; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) as it is stipulated in the Notice that the validity period of CoCs may be granted an extension of three years for holders attaining the age of 65 who appear to be physically fit and pass the eyesight test, and that such an extension may be granted only on a yearly basis for holders who have attained the age of 71, among the applications for the extension of the validity period of CoCs submitted in each of the past five years by CoC holders who were aged (i) 65, (ii) 68, (iii) 71, (iv) 72 to 75 and (v) 76 or above, of the respective numbers and percentages of applications approved;
(6) given that while Hong Kong residents holding the People's Republic of China Fishing Vessel Personnel Certificates may be issued Hong Kong coxswain and engine operator certificates by MD, these two certificates will cease to have effect simultaneously upon the day on which the holders attain the age of 60, whether the Government will consider discussing with the Mainland authorities revising the existing arrangements on reciprocal recognition of certificates so that persons attaining the age of 60 and having passed fitness and eyesight tests are allowed to apply for the extension of the validity period of such certificates issued by MD; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(7) of the respective passing rates, in each of the past five years, of the examinations for the various grades of coxswain and engine operator certificates; and
(8) as the various types of vessel operators have indicated that there has been a severe shortage of manpower in the industry, whether the Government will examine if the application thresholds for various grades of certificates (including the requirements on the length of service and examination) may be lowered, so as to attract new blood to join the industry; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
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SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (Certification and Licensing) Regulation (Cap. 548D) requires any person navigating or operating a Class I, II or III vessel that is fitted with propulsion engines to hold a local certificate of competency ("CoC") as a coxswain or an engine operator appropriate for the vessel. In addition, the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (Local Certificates of Competency) Rules ("the Rules") made under the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) Ordinance (Cap. 548) specify that CoCs shall expire upon their holders attaining the age of 65 years. Holders of CoCs who wish to have their CoC validity periods extended should, in accordance with the Rules, submit applications to the Seafarers' Certification Section of the Marine Department ("MD") within six months prior to reaching the age of 65 years. For a CoC holder who has reached 65 years of age, the validity period of his CoC could be extended for three years if he is physically fit and passes the eyesight test. As for a CoC holder who is 71 years old or above, his CoC would be extended yearly subject to assessments of physical fitness and eyesight.
In response to Mr Steven HO's question, in consultation with MD and the Transport Department, our reply is as follows:
(1) and (5)
According to MD's records, over the past five years, the number of CoCs that have expired as the holders have not applied for extension of their validity periods is set out at Annex A. The age distribution of applicants for extending the validity periods of their CoCs, as well as the respective figures and percentages of applications approved are at Annex B.
(2) To ensure that the CoC holders are fully aware of the arrangements and deadline of extending the validity periods of their CoCs, starting from March 2017, MD would issue letters on a monthly basis to all holders whose CoCs are due to expire in three months' time to remind them of applying for extension of their CoCs' validity periods in a timely manner. These reminders are sent to the holders' correspondence addresses as recorded by MD. As at March 2019, MD has issued a total of 2 887 such reminders.
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(3) Under section 15(6) of the Road Traffic (Driving Licences) Regulations (Cap. 374B), a full driving licence may be renewed during the period from four months before the date of its expiry to not exceeding three years after the date of its expiry. Given the various differences between driving a vehicle and a vessel in respect of the driving/navigating conditions, modes of operation and competency requirements for drivers/coxswains, driving licences and CoCs have their own respective regulatory regimes. The renewal arrangements and considerations of driving licences and CoCs are therefore not directly comparable.
That said, as a special measure to facilitate holders who need to extend the validity periods of their CoCs, MD made a one-off arrangement in January 2018 for holders aged 65 years or above to renew their expired CoCs. Under the said arrangement, holders whose CoCs had expired for not more than three years (counting from the issue date of the Marine Department Notice No. 12 of 2018 concerned on 26 January 2018) might be granted with a CoC of the same grade as the one expired without having the holders to take an examination, subject to the holders' physical fitness, passage of the eyesight test and completion of a one-day refresher course within six months from the issuance of the aforesaid Marine Department Notice. To effectively notify the persons who might benefit from the arrangement, MD promulgated this one-off arrangement to over 300 fishermen associations and organizations and enlisted their help to relay the information to their members.
(4) At present, the examinations for CoCs of coxswains and engine operators are mainly in written format (oral examinations could be arranged under special circumstances, such as when a candidate of Coxswain Grade 3 or Engine Operator Grade 3 CoC declares that he is unable to take the written examination due to illiteracy). The contents of the examinations cover several areas, namely basic knowledge of local waters and pilotage, the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea ("COLREGs"), as well as seamanship and basic engine knowledge. This is to ensure that the CoC holder possesses sufficient knowledge and skill sets to ensure marine safety. MD's view is that the proposal to substitute the written (or oral) examinations with a navigation examination is not preferable. This is mainly because such examination format of 9258 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
practical assessment at sea has its inherit limitations, as it could not fully cover different scenarios such as low visibility, night navigation, the application of COLREGs under different navigational circumstances, the knowledge and skills of the candidate in operating different classes of vessels, etc.
(6) To address the operating needs of mobile fishing vessels plying between the Mainland and Hong Kong, MD issues CoCs with certain restrictions to holders of the Mainland Fishing Vessel Personnel Certificates ("Mainland Certificates") to suit their daily mode of operation. It should be noted that as they come with specific restrictions, such as the types and maximum lengths of fishing vessels the holder is permitted to operate, this type of CoCs is different from the CoCs obtained via local examinations which entitle the holder to operate Class I, II and III vessels. Nevertheless, under the overarching principle of ensuring anyone operating a local vessel would possess suitable knowledge on marine safety, MD is open-minded to possible ways that could assist holders of the Mainland Certificates in meeting the necessary requirements for obtaining a local CoC.
(7) In the past five years, the passing rates of the examinations for the CoCs of various grades of coxswains and engine operators are at Annex C.
(8) To ensure that the holders of CoCs of various grades possess the suitable experience and skills, the applicants of CoCs of various grades are required to meet specific requirements, such as the relevant work experience, on-job training, etc. Currently, to facilitate the manpower development in the local vessel trade and to attract more young persons in joining the sector, MD is undertaking an accreditation exercise for the qualifications of the relevant CoCs in order to facilitate and support the lifelong learning and development of CoC holders, as well as to enable wider recognition of the CoC holders' abilities. Since such qualification accreditations involve reviewing the existing examination regime, MD is currently studying whether there is a need to amend the relevant examinations so as to better match the requirements of the accreditation exercise and the actual mode of operation of the trade.
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Annex A
Number of expired CoCs (i.e. holders have not extended the validity periods upon reaching 65 years of age)
Year Number of expired CoCs Grades of CoCs 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Coxswain Grade 1 57 52 56 54 48 Coxswain Grade 2 232 199 219 187 151 Coxswain Grade 3 451 467 439 473 403 Engine Operator Grade 1 128 148 141 169 114 Engine Operator Grade 2 2 3 5 5 6 Engine Operator Grade 3 279 248 253 221 225
Annex B
Number of applications for extending the validity periods of CoCs (as at 27 April 2019)
Age of the 65 to 70 years old 71 years old or above
applicants
Cases Cases Cases
Grades of approved approved processed processed Cases to be to be Cases to be Cases Cases rejected Cases rejected Cases CoCs received Cases received Cases Coxswain 20 12 8 0 6 4 2 0 Grade 1 (60%) (40%) (0%) (67%) (33%) (0%) Coxswain 128 97 29 2 47 43 3 1 Grade 2 (76%) (23%) (2%) (91%) (6%) (2%) Coxswain 141 108 33 0 115 92 23 0 Grade 3 (77%) (23%) (0%) (80%) (20%) (0%) Engine 65 45 19 1 18 16 2 0 Operator (69%) (29%) (2%) (89%) (11%) (0%) Grade 1 Engine 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 Operator (100%) (0%) (0%) (-) (-) (-) Grade 2 9260 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Age of the 65 to 70 years old 71 years old or above
applicants
Cases Cases Cases
Grades of approved approved processed processed Cases to be to be Cases to be Cases Cases rejected Cases rejected Cases CoCs received Cases received Cases Engine 85 57 27 1 18 16 2 0 Operator (67%) (32%) (1%) (89%) (11%) (0%) Grade 3
Notes:
1. The sums of percentages in brackets may not add up to 100% due to rounding.
2. Figures collected since 4 April 2016.
3. The number of cases is categorized with reference to the age groupings adopted in MD's records.
Annex C
Passing rates of the examinations for CoCs of the various grades of coxswains and engine operators
Year Grades of CoCs Examination 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Coxswain Grade 1 None* Not applicable^ Coxswain Grade 2 Written 26.2% 51.5% 31.3% 31.2% 38.2% Oral 3.6% 11.0% 13.9% 13.4% 12.9% Coxswain Grade 3 Written 32.3% 36.3% 33.8% 29.3% 29.3% Engine Operator None* Not applicable Grade 1 Engine Operator Written 41.3% 33.8% 52.1% 34.4% 29.6% Grade 2 Engine Operator Written 33.7% 33.3% 26.4% 28.0% 30.3% Grade 3
Notes:
* Since candidates for Coxswain Grade 1 and Engine Operator Grade 1 should have already attained a certain level of navigational skills and marine safety knowledge, there are no examinations for these two grades of CoCs. Any person who meets the specified LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9261
requirements, working experience and qualifications, as well as passes the examination for Coxswain Grade 2 or Engine Operator Grade 2, could be granted a CoC for Coxswain Grade 1 and for Engine Operator Grade 1 respectively.
^ Candidates who obtained a Coxswain Grade 2 Certificate by recognition of a Local Certificate of Competency as Master (60 Tons and under) or Fishing Vessel Master (without restriction or condition) issued under the provisions of the Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Cap. 313) before January 2007 will need to pass the Coxswain Grade 2 Part A examination, i.e. a written examination and a practical chart work examination, before they are eligible for the Coxswain Grade 1 CoC. The passing rates of the said examination were 34% (2016), 31.3% (2017) and 26.7% (2018). MD is unable to provide the passing rates of said examination before 2016 as the relevant data was incomplete.
Loading of trains of the West Rail Line
7. MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, in 2015, the loading of trains on the busiest section of the West Rail Line ("WRL") (i.e. the section between Kam Sheung Road Station and Tsuen Wan West Station) was 104% (calculated on the basis of a passenger density of four persons (standing) per square metre within train compartments). During the period from 2016 to 2018, the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") gradually increased the number of train cars of WRL from seven to eight, resulting in an increase in the carrying capacity of each train by about 14%. While the loading of trains on the aforesaid section dropped slightly to 99% in 2016, it rebounded to 101% in 2017 and 2018. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council if it knows:
(1) whether MTRCL has drawn up targets and plans for reducing the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL; if MTRCL has, the details of that;
(2) whether MTRCL made prior estimations on the changes that the increase in the number of train cars would bring to the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL in 2017 and 2018; if MTRCL did, the relevant data, and whether the actual loading met the estimated loading;
(3) whether MTRCL has studied the reasons for the rebound in the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL in 2017;
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(4) whether MTRCL has estimated the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL in the coming decade; if MTRCL has, the details of that;
(5) the current actual and designed maximum train frequencies of WRL during (i) peak and (ii) non-peak hours respectively; whether MTRCL will immediately increase the train frequency of WRL;
(6) regarding the Tuen Mun South Extension and the Hung Shui Kiu Station proposed to be constructed, whether MTRCL has estimated the impacts of their commissioning on the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL; if MTRCL has, the details of that; and
(7) the latest progress of the Shatin to Central Link project; whether MTRCL has estimated the impact of the railway line's commissioning on the loading of trains on the busiest section of WRL; if MTRCL has, the details of that?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my reply to the various parts of Mr LEUNG Che-cheung's question is as follows:
(1) to (3)
Hong Kong's community development and population growth have brought about rising traffic volumes. According to the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL"), the daily patronage of the MTR network on weekdays increased from around 5.56 million passenger trips in 2015 to around 5.88 million passenger trips in 2018, representing a growth of nearly 6% within three years. In particular, the rapid development of the community of North-west New Territories has brought about a continuous rise in both its population and transport demand. Regarding the West Rail Line ("WRL"), the patronage per direction in the busiest hour during the morning peak for its critical link increased from 36 400 in 2015 to 40 400 in 2018, representing a gain of more than 10%.
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When calculating the loadings of the railway lines, MTRCL takes into account the current carrying capacities of trains on the respective lines, assuming a passenger density of either six or four persons (standing) per square metre ("ppsm"). The passenger density of six ppsm was the industry standard design adopted at the time of the construction of the railway lines. Nevertheless, it has been observed in recent years that, in actual operation, trains running on the busiest corridors during the busiest hours achieved a passenger density of only around four ppsm. Thus, MTRCL uses these two passenger densities to calculate the corresponding loadings. A loading based on six ppsm will be lower than one based on four ppsm given the same patronage and carrying capacity.
To dovetail with the "East West Corridor" project (i.e. Tuen Ma Line) of the Shatin to Central Link ("SCL"), the number of cars of the WRL trains has been progressively increased from seven to eight since 2016. With the conversion completed in end-May 2018, the maximum carrying capacity (based on six ppsm) has increased from 49 200 (in 2015) to 56 200, representing a gain of 14%.
MTRCL has been closely monitoring the passenger demand as a reference for service planning. However, the loading of the line is dependent on both the carrying capacity of the trains and the patronage. When the growth in patronage surpasses that in carrying capacity, the loading increases. Thus, since the carrying capacity of the WRL trains increased by 8% in 2018 compared with that in 2016 but the patronage rose by 10% during the same period, there was a slight increase in loading. The carrying capacity, patronage and loading per hour during the morning peak for the critical link of WRL from 2015 to 2018 are set out in the Annex.
(4) and (5)
In order to enhance the carrying capacity and operating efficiency of the overall railway network, MTRCL has been taking various measures to ease passenger flows during peak hours, including increasing train frequency where practicable, and enhancing 9264 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
platform management at stations to facilitate on-time departures. Currently, the train frequencies of WRL in the morning and evening peaks are around 3 minutes and 3.5 minutes respectively for trips between Tuen Mun and Hung Hom. During the busiest period of the morning peak hours, MTRCL additionally provides a regular special train trip departing from Tin Shui Wai Station for Hung Hom. The above measures were observed to effectively alleviate crowdedness at the busiest sections during the said period. MTRCL will continue to closely monitor the loading of the railway line, and will review and consider proposals from time to time to cope with demand generated by future patronage.
In addition to the basic growth in passenger flow, the patronage for WRL in the years to come will depend on a number of factors, including the developments along the railway lines and the completion of new railway projects. Based on the data for the previous years from 2013 to 2017, the average daily passenger flow of WRL generally grows in the range of 0.6% to 2.3% every year. In taking forward individual development project, the relevant bureaux and departments will examine the impact of the proposed development on the existing transport network and formulate the corresponding strategies in order to determine the feasibility of the project. Upon completion and the initial stage of commissioning of new railway projects, it will take time for the passenger traffic to stabilize. Therefore, it is normal for the Government to continuously monitor the passenger traffic after commissioning and re-assess future patronage forecast.
(6) In planning the Tuen Mun South Extension, the Transport and Housing Bureau had, having regard to the indicative implementation window recommended in the Railway Development Strategy 2014, invited MTRCL to submit a proposal for the implementation of the Tuen Mun South Extension. MTRCL submitted a proposal for this railway project to the Government in end December 2016. The Transport and Housing Bureau, the Highways Department and relevant bureaux/departments have evaluated the proposal and requested MTRCL to provide additional information and supplement LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9265
details. In carrying out the evaluation, our main focus is to ensure that the proposal is practically feasible and can bring maximum benefits to the community. Due to the tight housing supply and the potential housing supply that may be brought about by railway development, the Government is also reviewing the proposal submitted by MTRCL in this light. Based on MTRCL's forecast, WRL would be capable to cope with the additional passenger flow brought about by the Tuen Mun South Extension upon its commissioning. At the detailed planning and design stage, MTRCL will further review the patronage of the Tuen Mun South Extension and its impact on WRL in the light of the latest planning data.
For planning of Hung Shui Kiu Station, its implementation is targeted to tie in with the planned population intake of Hung Shui Kiu New Development Area. Subject to the pace of development of the area concerned, the Government will invite MTRCL to submit a proposal for the project in a timely manner. When preparing the proposal, MTRCL will assess the patronage of Hung Shui Kiu Station and its impact on WRL in the light of the latest planning data.
In accordance with the established procedures, we will consult the public, including the Legislative Council and the District council, on the details of the project before finalizing any new railway scheme.
(7) The "Tai Wai to Hung Hom Section" under SCL is originally scheduled for commissioning in mid-2019. In view of the concern on the works quality of the Hung Hom Station and other stations, the target commissioning date is subject to further review. Meanwhile, the planned commissioning date for the "Hung Hom to Admiralty Section" under SCL remains to be 2021.
Upon commissioning of the "Tai Wai to Hung Hom Section" under SCL, it will connect the existing Ma on Shan Line to the existing WRL to constitute the "Tuen Ma Line". Passengers will be able to 9266 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
travel directly from Wu Kai Sha Station to East Kowloon, Hung Hom, New Territories West and Tuen Mun, providing more direct and convenient railway services.
After the commissioning of the Tuen Ma Line, MTRCL can provide services at a maximum frequency of 24 train trips per hour per direction by procuring more trains and enhancing signalling system, thus increasing the carrying capacity of WRL by approximately 37% as compared with that in 2015. Based on MTRCL's estimation, the above arrangement can cope with the post-commissioning passenger demand. Upon commissioning of the Tuen Ma Line, the Government will require MTRCL to continue monitoring passenger traffic and, if needed, consider the feasibility of further increasing train frequency to enhance the services of WRL.
Annex
The carrying capacity, patronage and loading per hour during the morning peak for the critical link of the West Rail Line from 2015 to 2018
West Rail Line
2015 2016 2017 2018 1 Carrying Capacity 49 200 52 200 56 200 56 200 (at six persons (standing) per square meter ("ppsm")) 2 Patronage 36 400 36 800 40 300 40 400 3 Loading (1) 74% 70% 72% 72% (at 6 ppsm) (for the critical link (Kam Sheung Road to Tsuen Wan West)) 4 Loading (2) 104% 99% 101% 101% (at 4 ppsm) (for the critical link (Kam Sheung Road to Tsuen Wan West))
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Outsourcing of estate management services of public rental housing estates
8. MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Chinese): President, currently, the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") has outsourced the estate management of about 60% of public rental housing ("PRH") estates to property management companies ("PMCs"). Some residents of PRH estates have relayed that some new PRH estates, which are managed by PMCs, do not have a sufficient number of security guards on duty after a lapse of more than one year since the intake of residents, and that the security guards employed by such PMCs have not properly followed up complaints about strangers entering the estates to promote products from door to door, making them very worried about their personal safety. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) regarding PMCs' failure to meet the manpower requirements and service standards for estate management stipulated in the service contracts, of the measures HA will take to render PMCs meeting the contractual requirements as soon as possible; and
(2) whether HA will review the existing mechanism for monitoring the performance of PMCs; if so, of the timetable; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my consolidated reply to Mr Michael TIEN's question is as follows:
It is stipulated in the contracts for property management services ("PSCs") outsourced by Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") that property services agents ("PSAs") should properly discharge their property management duties. In order to assess their overall performance, HA carries out regular inspections and has established a scoring system under which estate staff, Estate Management Advisory Committees and randomly selected households from individual housing estates will assess the performance of their respective PSAs on a quarterly basis. The scores attained by PSAs will affect their contract extension and tender opportunities. HA will request those PSAs with unsatisfactory performance to make improvements. If there is no improvement, PSAs with unsatisfactory performance will be subject to regulatory actions as decided by the Housing 9268 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Department's Contractors Review Committee, which may include restriction or suspension from tendering, removal from HA's Lists of Contractors, etc.
HA will take corresponding follow-up actions against PSAs who fail to provide the necessary manpower required under the contracts, such as reducing the monthly service charges to those PSAs who fail to provide a sufficient number of security guards as required under the contracts, and reflecting the deficiency in their monthly performance assessment scores. HA will, where necessary, meet with the management of such PSAs, urging them to resolve the issues of manpower shortage and failure to meet the service requirements as soon as possible.
HA keeps in view the arrangements and monitoring mechanism related to outsourced property management services from time to time. The Government has recently completed a review on its outsourcing system, and has introduced new measures to strengthen the protection of non-skilled workers employed by Government service contractors in the aspects of reasonable remuneration and labour rights. HA has adopted the Government's enhanced measures. Regarding the tender evaluation mechanism for PSCs, HA has aligned with the Government's new measures and adjusted the technical weighting to 50%. HA will also follow the Government's measures by adjusting the weighting of the wages of non-skilled workers in service contracts to 25% of the total technical marks so as to encourage PSAs to offer more reasonable remuneration to their workers, and strengthen the regulatory requirements(1) on occupational safety and health. We believe that these measures will help enhance the manpower arrangements and service quality of PSAs. HA will continue to keep under review its outsourcing arrangements, with a view to ensuring reasonable service quality.
(1) Under the current mechanism, a tenderer with a conviction record of any specified offences (i.e. those under the Employment Ordinance (Cap. 57); the Employees' Compensation Ordinance (Cap. 282); section 17I(1), section 38A(4) and section 41 of the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115); section 89 of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance (Cap. 221); and sections 7, 7A and 43E of the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap. 485)) will be debarred from tendering for HA's service contracts for a maximum of five years (counting from the date of conviction), and the service contractor will also be removed from the respective HA List. In line with the Government's new measures, HA will expand the list of such offences to cover those under the Occupational Safety and Health Ordinance (Cap. 509) and the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance (Cap. 59); and section 7AA, section 43B(3A) and section 43BA(5) of the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap. 485). LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9269
Small House Policy
9. MR KENNETH LAU (in Chinese): President, since the implementation of the Small House Policy in December 1972, the Government has been granting small house grants to male indigenous villagers in three forms (namely the Free Building Licence, Private Treaty Grant for granting government land and Land Exchange). On the 8th of last month, the High Court handed down a judgment on a judicial review of the Small House Policy, ruling that among those three forms, only the construction of a small house under the Free Building Licence is a lawful traditional right and interest of the indigenous inhabitants of the New Territories within the meaning of Article 40 of the Basic Law, and is lawful and constitutional. In addition, the High Court ordered that the judgment was to take effect upon the expiry of six months after it was made. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the respective numbers of applications for small house grants in the three aforesaid forms which were (i) received, (ii) approved, (iii) rejected and (iv) being processed in each year from 2009 to 2019 (as at the 30th of last month) by each of the District Lands Offices located in the New Territories, and set out the relevant figures in tables of the same format as the table below; and
District Lands Office: ______Number of applications Free Building Private Treaty Year Land Exchange Licence Grant (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 2010 … 2019 (as at 30th of last month)
(2) given that in relation to granting small house grants in the forms of Private Treaty Grant and Land Exchange, while the Development Bureau stated in a press release issued on the 8th of last month that the Lands Department ("LandsD") would suspend the receipt of new 9270 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
applications and the processing of those applications already received, the Director of Lands advised in his reply to a written question I raised on the Estimates of Expenditure 2019-2020 that pending a decision on whether to appeal, applications in relation to all forms of grants made in the past would continue to be processed as usual, whether the Government can clarify the current situation regarding the processing of the applications relating to these two forms; whether LandsD will continue to process such applications until the day on which the aforesaid judgment takes effect or the Court of Appeal hands down its judgment on the relevant appeal (if any) (whichever is the earlier); if LandsD will, of the details; if not, the justifications for that?
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Small House Policy ("the Policy") was introduced in 1972. Under the Policy, a male indigenous villager aged 18 years old or above who is descended through the male line from a resident in 1898 of a recognized village in the New Territories may apply to the authority once during his lifetime for permission to build for himself a small house on a suitable site within his own village.
My reply to various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) A breakdown on the number of applications received, approved, rejected, and being processed by the New Territories District Lands Offices of the Lands Department ("LandsD") from 2009 to 2019 (up to 31 March) for building small houses by way of Free Building Licence ("FBL"), Private Treaty Grant ("PTG") and Land Exchange respectively is set out at Annex.
(2) The Court of First Instance of the High Court handed down a judgment on 8 April 2019 on a judicial review case of the Policy. The Court ruled that the FBL arrangement under the Policy, being a lawful traditional right and interest of the indigenous inhabitants of the New Territories within the meaning of Article 40 of the Basic Law, is lawful and constitutional, while the PTG and Land Exchange arrangements under the Policy are not. Separately, according to the orders granted by the Court on 30 April regarding relief and other matters, the Court confirmed that, as far as applications for Land LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9271
Exchange is concerned, the unconstitutionality ruling handed down on 8 April applied only to Land Exchange involving Government land.
Therefore, the Government will continue to process applications for approval to build small houses through FBL and through Land Exchange not involving Government land.
With the consent of the parties, the Court approved on 29 April the extension of the deadline for appeal to 28 May. At present, the Development Bureau is studying in detail with the legal team whether to lodge an appeal. Pending a decision on whether to appeal, LandsD suspends the receipt of applications for grant of Government land for building small houses through PTG and grant of Government land for building small houses through Land Exchange, as well as the processing of such applications already received. The Court has stated that the ruling on 8 April will take effect from 8 October, and the validity of the grants made before the judgment takes effect would not be affected by the unconstitutional ruling. As to whether and how to handle applications for PTG and those for Land Exchange involving Government land before 8 October, we need to carefully consider various factors with LandsD and the legal team, including legal issues and actual operations. After all, the Court has ruled that PTG and Land Exchange involving Government land for building small houses are unconstitutional, and the Court has not handed down specific orders to the Government directing how to handle these types of applications that are pending approval. The Government considers it prudent to continue suspending the processing of these types of applications at this stage pending a decision on whether to appeal.
The question mentioned that, when replying to written questions raised by Members in examining the Estimates of Expenditure for 2019-2020, the Director of Lands indicated in Chinese that "在尚未 決定是否上訴之前，過往以各種形式提出的申請(包括重建申 請)，則會如常繼續處理". Relevant formulations were found in the Chinese translation of the replies with serial numbers DEVB(PL)172 and DEVB(PL)184. There was discrepancy 9272 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
between the Chinese translation and the relevant part(1) in the English replies, and the Chinese translation was not accurate. The relevant Chinese translation has been rectified and uploaded to the website of the Legislative Council. That part of the reply mainly aimed to state that, regarding all forms of grants approved in the past for building small houses, the Government would continue to process applications made in accordance with the terms of such grants (for example, applications for Certificates of Exemption, Certificate of Compliance, removal of restriction on alienation and rebuilding). The relevant part was not meant to explain how the Government handles PTG and Land Exchange applications that were not yet approved.
(1) The relevant part in the English reply with serial number DEVB(PL)172 is "Pending a decision on whether to appeal, applications in relation to all forms of grants made in the past (including rebuilding applications) will continue to be processed as usual"; the relevant part in the English reply with serial number DEVB(PL)184 is "While processing of outstanding applications for PTG and Land Exchange will be suspended pending a decision on whether to appeal, the FBL applications as well as applications in relation to all forms of grants made in the past will continue to be processed as usual".
Annex
Number of Applications for Building Small Houses
District Lands Office, Islands
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 25 8 2 138 69 13 4 301 0 2 0 20 2010 44 14 3 165 41 7 9 326 0 1 0 19 2011 54 7 3 210 53 10 1 368 3 3 0 19 2012 36 14 22 210 68 32 12 393 0 0 0 19 2013 44 16 5 186 86 19 18 343 6 5 2 15 2014 46 34 9 158 35 15 16 335 0 4 1 10 2015 39 23 20 144 88 14 18 332 0 0 1 9 2016 24 40 7 117 50 8 5 360 1 2 0 7 2017 23 26 12 93 23 10 22 343 2 2 1 2 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9273
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2018 30 21 7 92 34 8 20 336 0 0 1 0 2019 8 9 4 85 6 5 2 334 0 0 0 0 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, North
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 181 113 41 656 105 21 83 471 1 1 0 4 2010 233 104 46 672 86 8 74 468 4 5 0 3 2011 334 116 88 643 90 16 61 473 3 3 0 3 2012 441 77 43 866 89 29 19 506 2 2 0 3 2013 408 113 44 1 080 86 6 22 537 2 2 0 4 2014 485 125 51 1 413 105 10 33 592 0 1 0 3 2015 429 84 43 1 763 102 13 28 647 1 1 0 3 2016 293 135 63 2 119 68 11 71 705 0 0 1 3 2017 230 91 76 2 253 63 3 97 683 0 3 0 3 2018 212 137 124 2 268 69 1 114 674 1 0 0 11 2019 35 42 37 2 037 18 0 38 638 0 0 1 6 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Sai Kung
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 111 82 41 427 54 0 34 338 1 10 2 7 2010 83 60 81 364 73 37 13 374 11 5 0 9 2011 93 59 80 313 126 5 17 419 0 4 5 1 2012 192 52 68 296 102 24 26 410 57 6 9 18 2013 133 72 64 268 73 35 26 394 7 9 1 17 2014 74 76 45 219 45 9 64 380 0 1 2 17 2015 77 59 41 207 63 3 48 378 0 1 6 17 2016 37 42 20 274 62 4 28 431 0 2 0 15 2017 47 43 6 301 23 4 10 459 3 5 3 7 9274 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2018 30 39 13 271 55 5 5 602 0 4 1 9 2019 8 12 2 274 17 0 2 641 0 0 0 14 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Sha Tin
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 27 71 6 182 62 0 71 96 0 1 3 20 2010 74 26 20 187 42 0 33 128 0 0 3 17 2011 24 2 7 177 46 0 33 196 0 0 1 14 2012 57 3 34 199 56 2 122 134 1 6 0 8 2013 52 3 58 244 29 65 68 116 1 2 1 22 2014 7 22 21 198 24 31 41 62 4 0 0 14 2015 6 13 20 193 71 3 89 10 4 3 0 16 2016 17 5 28 192 38 25 56 15 0 2 0 14 2017 17 17 43 120 22 4 15 49 1 1 4 8 2018 11 25 41 71 39 5 37 36 1 3 0 10 2019 6 5 0 70 10 0 4 38 0 2 0 9 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Tai Po
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 230 153 81 1 146 74 45 46 690 9 18 0 0 2010 214 237 193 1 147 107 16 130 656 0 20 0 24 2011 176 168 183 928 89 30 166 614 0 3 0 4 2012 203 205 142 1 075 68 37 185 363 0 7 3 23 2013 206 170 71 788 91 6 75 357 0 8 3 14 2014 194 182 95 710 121 30 100 367 20 19 12 0 2015 164 146 52 585 98 37 115 332 8 11 5 1 2016 73 90 160 463 68 34 91 149 20 19 9 0 2017 67 129 70 372 56 31 34 137 28 10 3 9 2018 73 128 210 153 90 57 93 31 3 10 0 0 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9275
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2019 658 35 15 970 427 5 17 527 19 2 1 15 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Tsuen Wan and Kwai Tsing
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 13 4 1 31 53 9 10 99 0 0 0 1 2010 8 13 7 19 8 53 9 48 0 0 0 1 2011 28 0 19 30 23 3 22 47 0 0 0 1 2012 14 0 8 34 5 1 4 58 0 0 0 1 2013 32 4 20 42 14 0 9 63 0 0 0 1 2014 1 4 22 17 14 2 28 52 10 0 2 9 2015 11 0 6 22 5 34 3 21 7 0 2 14 2016 0 0 11 11 18 1 10 28 2 0 1 15 2017 2 2 5 6 7 4 7 29 0 0 0 15 2018 41 0 20 61 3 0 2 7 0 1 0 12 2019 1 0 1 61 2 0 0 52 0 0 0 12 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Tuen Mun
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 97 61 20 207 13 0 1 19 0 0 0 0 2010 74 55 8 215 7 1 4 30 0 0 0 0 2011 86 36 12 261 23 1 3 31 0 0 0 0 2012 67 55 16 270 33 1 11 45 0 0 0 0 2013 89 41 12 271 31 4 9 44 0 0 0 0 2014 159 44 82 318 20 1 15 61 0 0 0 0 2015 198 66 43 308 20 5 10 67 0 0 0 0 2016 39 53 34 365 32 1 28 67 0 0 0 0 2017 40 47 43 292 28 6 18 78 0 0 0 0 2018 65 44 15 345 20 5 10 75 0 0 0 0 9276 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2019 17 6 2 355 0 1 0 74 0 1 0 0 (up to 31 March)
District Lands Office, Yuen Long
FBLNote PTGNote Land ExchangeNote Years (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2009 582 651 238 1 950 60 25 95 452 2 2 1 49 2010 767 763 300 1 539 80 48 65 429 3 1 1 50 2011 941 547 275 1 768 179 24 65 334 3 4 1 41 2012 1 064 529 348 1 884 132 33 117 321 3 6 1 39 2013 1 048 417 390 1 949 110 12 63 386 18 2 19 35 2014 1 065 493 493 3 195 93 11 61 407 0 0 0 32 2015 1 020 457 592 3 306 136 16 121 393 0 0 0 32 2016 395 363 384 3 370 60 20 73 393 0 1 0 32 2017 359 365 527 2 864 87 12 65 393 1 3 0 32 2018 511 330 321 2 720 62 5 45 412 0 2 1 27 2019 147 127 105 2 640 21 2 32 378 0 0 0 27 (up to 31 March)
Notes:
(1) (i) number of applications received, (ii) number of applications approved, (iii) number of applications rejected, (iv) number of applications being processed by the relevant Lands Office as at 31 December of that year (the cut-off date for the 2019 figure is 31 March).
(2) As the processing of applications received during a year may not be completed within the same year, the application cases and number of applications approved, rejected and being processed during the year may not correspond with the application cases and number of applications received during the year.
Implementation of the five-day work week by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department
10. MR HO KAI-MING (in Chinese): President, as at 30 September last year, around 75% of civil servants were working on a five-day work week ("FDWW") pattern. Some trade union representatives have relayed that a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9277 relatively large number of staff members of the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") are not arranged to work on a FDWW pattern. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the (i) staffing establishment and (ii) strength of civil servants under LCSD in each of the past three years and, among such civil servants, the number and percentage of those who worked on a FDWW pattern (together with a breakdown by grade and rank); and
(2) whether LCSD will arrange all of its staff members to work on a FDWW pattern as soon as possible; if so, of the details; if not, whether the authorities will review the four basic principles with which the various policy bureaux/government departments have to comply in implementing FDWW?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, my reply to Mr HO Kai-ming's question is as follows:
(1) According to the statistics provided by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD"), the establishment, strength and number of civil servants working on a five-day week ("FDW") basis as at 30 September 2016 and 30 September 2018 with breakdown by grade are set out in the table below:
(Number of (Number of civil servants as at civil servants as at 30 September 2016) 30 September 2018)
Grades Strength Strength Number of Number of Number Establishment Establishment officers on FDW officers on FDW officers
Directorate 12 6 6 12 11 11 grades (0.1%) (0.1%) Departmental 3 567 3 512 2 355 3 723 3 596 2 366 grades(1) (26.9%) (26%) 9278 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
(Number of (Number of civil servants as at civil servants as at 30 September 2016) 30 September 2018)
Grades Strength Strength Number of Number of Number Establishment Establishment officers on FDW officers on FDW officers
General and 4 647 4 403 2 314 4 805 4 580 2 402 common (26.4%) (26.3%) grades(2) Model Scale 1 1 214 846 491 1 213 930 507 grades(3) (5.6%) (5.6%) Total: 9 440 8 767 5 166 9 753 9 117 5 286 (58.9%) (58%) Figures in brackets denote the percentage of the total number of serving civil servants in LCSD
Notes:
(1) Departmental grades include Amenities Assistant, Cultural Services Assistant, Curator, Leisure Services Manager, Librarian, Manager (Cultural Services), Music Officer and Technical Officer (Cultural Services).
(2) General and common grades include Accounting Officer, Administrative Officer, Analyst/Programmer, Architect, Artisan, Building Services Engineer, Building Services Inspector, Calligraphist, Clerical Assistant, Clerical Officer, Clerk of Works, Computer Operator, Confidential Assistant, Executive Officer, Information Officer, Laboratory Technician, Maintenance Surveyor, Management Services Officer, Motor Driver, Office Assistant, Official Languages Officer, Personal Secretary, Photographer, Quantity Surveyor, Senior Artisan, Special Driver, Statistical Officer, Statistician, Structural Engineer, Supplies Assistant, Supplies Officer, Supplies Supervisor, Survey Officer, Technical Officer, Training Officer, Transport Services Officer, Treasury Accountant, Typist, Veterinary Laboratory Technician, Veterinary Officer and Works Supervisor.
(3) Model Scale 1 grades include Supplies Attendant, Workman I and Workman II.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9279
(2) LCSD will continue exploring possible options for wider implementation of FDW subject to the four basic principles (i.e. no additional staffing resources; no reduction in conditioned hours of service of individual staff; no reduction in emergency services; and continued provision of essential counter services on Saturdays/Sundays). In the past two years (i.e. starting from 1 October 2016), some parks and sports grounds of LCSD had, after completion of trials, successfully migrated to work on FDW. For those venues where FDW cannot be implemented due to operational reasons, LCSD will arrange the staff to work five days a week as far as practicable during overhaul of the venues or seasonal suspension of service.
Windows provided for units of transitional housing
11. MR JEREMY TAM (in Chinese): President, section 30 of the Building (Planning) Regulations (Cap. 123 sub. leg. F) provides that every room used for habitation shall be provided with natural lighting and ventilation by means of one or more windows which shall be so constructed that the percentage of the aggregate superficial area of glass in the window or windows facing directly into the external air is not less than 10% of the area of the floor of the room ("window area/floor area ratio"). On the other hand, the Government indicated, in reply to a question raised by a Member of this Council on 20 March this year, that it would support and facilitate the implementation of various short-term initiatives put forward and carried out by community groups to increase the supply of transitional housing, including considering waiving some requirements for the provision in the living areas of windows that conform to the specification requirements. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council of the total number of transitional housing units in Hong Kong which were occupied or were ready for occupation as at 28 February this year, and set out in the table below the respective numbers and percentages of such units whose window area/floor area ratio belonged to the ratio ranges set out in the table?
Window area/floor area ratio Number and percentage of units (Rounded to the nearest 0.01%) 0% 0.01% to 2.5% 2.51% to 5% 9280 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Window area/floor area ratio Number and percentage of units (Rounded to the nearest 0.01%) 5.01% to 7.5% 7.51% to 10% 10.01% or above
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, the Task Force on Transitional Housing has, over a period of time in the past, facilitated the implementation of a number of transitional housing projects initiated by the community. As at February 2019, a total of nine major non-profit making community organizations/social enterprises provided about 610 transitional housing units, of which about 220 were launched under the "Community Housing Movement" of Hong Kong Council of Social Service ("HKCSS"). Details of these projects are set out below:
Number of Service Operators Project Units Light Be Light Home 70 Light Housing 40 Society for Community Prior Community Social Housing 14 Organization Community Joy's To Gather 39* Rooms for Rent 4* Lok Sin Tong Social Housing 20* Lok Sin Tong Scheme 55 St. James' Settlement James' House 14* Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Good Homes 60* Welfare Council The Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Best Neighbour Walk Together 16* Association Social Service The Salvation Army Home Plus 53* Hong Kong Housing Society Transitional Rental Housing 217 Scheme―Yue Kwong Chuen Yan Oi Tong Green Garden 11* Total number of Units 613
Note:
* Units launched under the "Community Housing Movement" operated by HKCSS.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9281
According to the Circular Letter to the industry issued on 25 October 2018, Buildings Department ("BD") taking into consideration of the planning and design limitations in the old-style domestic buildings, will grant some "Modifications" or "Exemptions" concerning the provision of transitional housing units inside old-style domestic buildings. The provision of compensatory measures will be required at the same time, so as to ensure the "Modifications" or "Exemptions" granted will not affect the safety and hygiene standards including the natural lighting requirement for the habitable areas, as stipulated in the Buildings Ordinance. Generally speaking, the related "Modifications" or "Exemptions" applications only involve parts of the transitional housing units. The aforesaid Circular Letter has stipulated the compensatory measures needed which include the annual inspection and submission of the inspection report by an Authorized Person to ascertain the relevant compensatory measures and the conditions imposed in the "Modifications" or "Exemptions" Permits were complied.
Both the Transport and Housing Bureau and BD had not prepared the statistics of the total glazing area of external facing windows in relation to the floor area of the transitional housing units.
Highly drug-resistant pathogens
12. DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that the number of sickness cases caused by the infection of Candida auris, a species of fungi, is increasing in different places around the world. Given that such fungus is highly drug-resistant, and almost half of the patients concerned will die within 90 days, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of the United States have added this pathogen to the list of "urgent threats". In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the number of sickness cases confirmed to have been caused by the infection of Candida auris in each of the past five years; the treatments received by and the recovery situation of the patients concerned;
(2) given the extremely high fatality rate of sickness cases caused by the infection of Candida auris, whether the Government will require that (i) all such infection cases be notified under the Prevention and 9282 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Control of Disease Ordinance (Cap. 599), and (ii) the patients concerned be isolated for receiving treatment; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) whether the Government (i) conducted epidemiological studies on Candida auris, (ii) formulated measures to prevent the spread of such fungus in medical wards and the community, and (iii) introduced special drugs for treating the patients concerned, in the past five years; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) whether it will review the guidelines on the prescription of antibiotics for patients with a view to reducing the abusive use of antibiotics and avoiding the emergence of highly drug-resistant pathogens; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, the Government attaches great importance to the work on antimicrobial resistance ("AMR"). The High Level Steering Committee on Antimicrobial Resistance ("HLSC"), chaired by the Secretary for Food and Health, formulated a holistic strategy and action plan under a "One Health" framework. It has taken into account the recommendations put forward by the experts of HLSC's Expert Committee on Antimicrobial Resistance and considerations from the perspectives of human health, animal health and environmental well-being. In consultation with the Department of Health ("DH") and the Hospital Authority ("HA"), the reply to various parts of the question raised by Dr CHIANG Lai-wan is as follows:
(1) There were no confirmed cases of Candida auris recorded by HA in the past five years. In general, Echinocandin antifungal drugs, such as Anidulafungin or Micafungin, are the most effective medication for Candida auris. Doctors in public hospitals adjust the relevant treatment plans according to the antifungal susceptibility results. The actual time needed for treatment varies depending on patients' conditions and their clinical response to medication. For example, in the case of Candidemia, doctors determine the treatment duration having regard to the recovery progress of the patient concerned and whether the Candida auris in the bloodstream can be cleared. Such treatment usually takes about two to four weeks.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9283
(2) The Government will consider a number of factors in determining whether a particular disease should be listed as a statutory notifiable infectious disease under the Prevention and Control of Disease Ordinance (Cap. 599). These factors include the epidemiological trend and severity of the disease, the potential risk of outbreak of the disease, the availability of reliable diagnostic methods, the availability of effective personal or public health intervention and other better surveillance methods, the surveillance and reporting requirements of the World Health Organization, international practices, the possibility of the disease being used as a biological weapon, etc. DH keeps in view the evolution of infectious diseases and reviews the list of statutory notifiable infectious diseases from time to time, in order to strengthen disease surveillance and implement effective preventive and control measures on public health to prevent the spread of infectious diseases in Hong Kong.
According to DH's records, there have been no reports of Candida auris outbreaks in Hong Kong so far. At present, Candida auris is not a notifiable infectious disease in most countries, including Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore and the United Kingdom, etc. DH will continue to closely monitor the epidemiological situation and the latest development of Candida auris, and will review the relevant surveillance measures in a timely manner.
(3) As mentioned above, since there have been no reports of Candida auris outbreaks in Hong Kong so far, DH has not conducted any epidemiological studies on the disease. The current relevant epidemiological data reflect overseas situations only. DH will continue to closely monitor the epidemiological situation and the latest development of the disease.
DH has been providing guidelines and advice on personal and environmental hygiene and isolation precautions to promote infection prevention and control in the community and health care settings, and also regularly organizing training for relevant stakeholders to update their knowledge of infectious diseases and infection control. In principle, the infection control measures for Candida auris are the same as those for most multidrug resistant 9284 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
organisms. The main measures include taking standard and contact precautions, maintaining hand and environmental hygiene, and promoting the proper use of personal protective equipment. At the same time, HA has also formulated guidelines on Candida auris and the necessary infection control measures.
Generally speaking, Candida auris is more drug-resistant than other candida. The drug category for treating the disease, however, is basically no different from the antifungal drugs generally used for treating serious fungal infections. All these drugs have been registered and are available in the local market. At present, the following special drugs for treating Candida auris are available in HA Drug Formulary: Echinocandin antifungal drugs (Anidulafungin, Caspofungin and Micafungin) and Lipid formulation amphotericin B antifungal drugs.
(4) To tackle the increasingly serious AMR problem, HLSC launched the Hong Kong Strategy and Action Plan on Antimicrobial Resistance (2017-2022) in 2017, which sets out the following six key areas of work:
(i) Strengthen knowledge through surveillance and research;
(ii) Optimize use of antimicrobials in humans and animals;
(iii) Reduce incidence of infection through effective sanitation, hygiene and preventive measures;
(iv) Improve awareness and understanding of AMR through effective communication, education and training;
(v) Promote research on AMR; and
(vi) Strengthen partnerships and foster engagement of relevant stakeholders.
The departments and organizations concerned have been taking actions according to the timetable set out in the Action Plan. To minimize abuse of antimicrobials through the promotion of their LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9285
judicious use, the Advisory Group on Antibiotic Stewardship in Primary Care of DH rolled out in 2017 the Antibiotic Stewardship Programme in Primary Care, providing doctors with evidence-based antibiotic prescription guidance for common infections in the community. The departments and organizations concerned will update the guidance notes in a timely manner based on local epidemiology and international best practices in order to optimize the use of antibiotics. For instance, the Interhospital Multi-disciplinary Programme on Antimicrobial ChemoTherapy, which provides guidelines on the use of antibiotics, was updated to the fifth edition in November 2017.
On public education, DH has disseminated through different media a collection of health information, including the Guidance Notes on Antibiotic Use provided on social networks and the medication tips for patients regarding common communicable diseases, so as to enhance the public's understanding of AMR and help lower patients' expectation on prescription of antimicrobials.
Persons on remand pending trial
13. MR DENNIS KWOK: President, it is learnt that as the Lai Chi Kok Reception Centre and the Tai Lam Centre for Women are often full, from time to time male and female persons on remand pending trial need to be transferred to other correctional institutions (e.g. the Stanley Prison). In this regard, will the Government inform this Council, in each of the past five years:
(1) of the average and maximum length of time for which persons pending trial were held on remand; and
(2) of the number of persons on remand pending trial who were transferred from the aforesaid centres to another correctional institution because the former were full?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: President, the Government's consolidated response to the two parts of Mr KWOK's question, based on information gathered from relevant departments, is as follows:
9286 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
(1) The Correctional Services Department ("CSD") is responsible for, inter alia, the operation of correctional institutions for the custody of offenders sentenced to imprisonment by the Court and persons ordered by the Court to be held on remand pending trial. It does not maintain statistics on the average and maximum length of time for which persons pending trial were held on remand in the past five years.
Under section 9D(1) of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance (Cap. 221), a defendant is entitled to be admitted to bail pending trial. A defendant may be refused bail if, as provided under section 9G(1) of Cap. 221, it appears to the court that there are substantial grounds for believing that the defendant would:
(a) fail to surrender to custody as the Court may appoint; or
(b) commit an offence while on bail; or
(c) interfere with a witness or pervert or obstruct the course of justice.
In deciding whether or not to refuse bail, the Court may have regard to the following factors, as set out in section 9G(2) of Cap. 221:
(a) the nature and seriousness of the alleged offence and, in the event of conviction, the manner in which the accused person is likely to be dealt with;
(b) the behaviour, demeanour and conduct of the accused person;
(c) the background, associations, employment, occupation, home environment, community ties and financial position of the accused person;
(d) the health, physical and mental condition and age of the accused person;
(e) the history of any previous admissions to bail of the accused person;
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(f) the character, antecedents and previous convictions, if any, of the accused person;
(g) the nature and weight of the evidence of the commission of the alleged offence by the accused person;
(h) any other thing that appears to the court to be relevant.
(2) CSD is committed to providing a secure, safe, humane, decent and healthy custodial environment for persons in custody ("PICs") in all correctional institutions.
Generally, CSD detains adult males and females on remand at Lai Chi Kok Reception Centre ("LCKRC") and Tai Lam Centre for Women ("TLCW") respectively. In order to alleviate the occasional overcrowding situation in these institutions, since August 2016, some male remand PICs were transferred from LCKRC to Stanley Prison, while since January 2017, some female remand PICs were transferred from TLCW to Lo Wu Correctional Institution ("LWCI"). The numbers of male and female remand PICs transferred to Stanley Prison and LWCI respectively as at the end of the past three years (i.e. 2016 to 2018) are tabulated below:
Year Number of male remand Number of female (As at PICs in Stanley Prison remand PICs in LWCI 31 December) transferred from LCKRC transferred from TLCW 2016 201 - 2017 227 52 2018 335 79
CSD will continue its efforts to deploy resources flexibly having regard to the changing penal population, and plan and implement various measures to improve and upgrade ageing facilities (including redeveloping relevant correctional facilities to increase the capacity as necessary).
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Remuneration of Hospital Authority staff
14. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Chinese): President, some members of the public have relayed to me that although the Hospital Authority ("HA") recorded operating deficits for two consecutive years, its senior executives were still given pay rises. Also, there has been a case of "fattening the top and slimming the bottom". In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the number of senior executives in HA, with a breakdown by the group (in bands of $500,000 apart) to which their annual salary belonged, and the average annual pay increment of such executives, in each of the past three years;
(2) whether it knows the criteria and factors based on which HA determines the pay level and the magnitude of pay adjustment for its senior executives; whether those criteria and factors include the financial position, staff wastage rate and service quality of HA; if they are not included, whether HA will take into account such factors in future; if they are included, of the overall wastage rate of HA's full-time staff and the wastage rate of full-time staff in each healthcare grade, and whether there were cases in which HA ran an operating deficit with its staff wastage rate standing high and patients' waiting time for services being long and yet its senior executives were given a pay rise, in each of the past three years; and
(3) whether it will allocate additional resources to HA so that the cash allowance for staff appointed in or after April 1998 can be linked to their basic salary to align with the entitlements of those staff appointed prior to such time, with a view to reducing the wastage of healthcare workers?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Dr Priscilla LEUNG is as follows:
(1) The manpower situation and remuneration of the key management personnel of the Hospital Authority ("HA") in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 are set out in the table below:
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2016-2017 2017-2018 Increase Rank Number of Number of Remuneration Remuneration (%) personnel personnel Chief 1 $6.00 million 1 $6.02 million 0.3% Executive Directors, 14 $64.84 million 14 $66.98 million 3.3% Heads and Cluster Chief Executives
Notes:
(i) Remuneration includes basic salaries, other short-term employee benefits and post-employment benefits.
(ii) The actual expenditure for 2018-2019 will only be available after completion of the Annual Financial Statements.
(2) In general, HA will take factors such as internal relativities, pay level in the market and affordability of the organization into account in determining the remuneration of its senior executives. Their remuneration is also subject to annual adjustments in accordance with prevailing human resources policy on salary increment.
(3) The differences in the terms of appointment and remuneration packages of staff members joining HA at different times are due to organizational development and other background factors. The Government and HA strive to attract, develop and retain health care manpower to ensure the quality of public health care services. In the 2019-2020 Budget, the Government announced the provision of additional recurrent funding of $721 million for HA to implement enhancement measures to boost staff morale and retain talent. With the dedicated resources, HA is working out the details of the enhancement measures, with a view to striving for their early implementation in 2019-2020 to benefit frontline staff. The measures include:
(1) continuation of the Special Retired and Rehire Scheme for doctors, nurses and allied health staff;
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(2) enhancement of the Fixed Rate Honorarium for doctors;
(3) enhancement of promotion prospects for nurses (increasing the number of Advanced Practice Nurse posts to enhance senior coverage and nursing supervision in wards at night);
(4) implementation of Specialty Nurse Increment for registered nurses with the required qualifications;
(5) enhancement of promotion prospects for allied health professionals and pharmacists;
(6) measures to attract and retain supporting staff (pay enhancement for supporting staff and recruitment of additional Executive Assistants in wards); and
(7) measures for alleviating service demand during winter surges (further uplift of the rate of the Special Honorarium Scheme allowance so as to encourage staff participation).
HA will also continue to formulate and implement other human resources measures, including hiring full-time and part-time health care professionals and agency nurses, rehiring suitable retired health care staff and increasing the number of training places for Resident Trainees. The Government will continue to provide HA with appropriate resources to attract and retain staff.
Redevelopment of public rental housing estates
15. MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Chinese): President, in considering whether or not to redevelop individual aged public rental housing ("PRH") estates, the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") will, based on the directions set out in the Long Term Housing Strategy and with reference to the four basic principles under the "Refined Policy on Redevelopment of Aged PRH Estates" (i.e. structural conditions of buildings, cost-effectiveness of repair works, availability of suitable rehousing resources in the vicinity of the estates to be redeveloped, and build-back potential upon redevelopment), prudently consider the matter in accordance with the actual circumstances. Although HA LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9291 completed in 2013 a review of the redevelopment potential of 22 non-divested aged estates, it has so far announced the redevelopment directions of only three estates. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the proposals and timetables for redevelopment of the 22 estates, and the timing for announcing the relevant details; the respective weightings of the aforesaid four principles when HA considers whether or not to redevelop an individual estate;
(2) of the total amount of expenditure incurred by HA for carrying out repair and maintenance as well as improvement works for its estates in each of the past five years, and the amount of which incurred for the 22 estates;
(3) of the number of PRH tenants affected by the redevelopment projects in each of the past five years, with a breakdown by their accommodation situation after moving out (including being accommodated in another PRH flat allocated to them, in a unit acquired under the various subsidized home ownership schemes, and in self-arranged accommodation);
(4) as some PRH tenants currently affected by the redevelopment projects have relayed that while they may acquire a subsidized sale flat in the capacity of clearees, HA conducted only one round of sale activity per year under the Green Form Subsidised Home Ownership Scheme ("GSH") and the Home Ownership Scheme respectively in recent years, rendering them unable to acquire a housing unit in time, whether HA will review the relevant arrangements;
(5) given that the pre-sale periods for two GSH projects planned to be launched for sale by HA by the end of this year will be as long as three to four years, whether "seamless removal" arrangements will be made for PRH tenants who are affected by redevelopment projects and have acquired a GSH flat concerned, i.e. they will be requested to move out and surrender their PRH flat only when their GSH flat is ready for intake; and
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(6) whether HA will expeditiously set up a committee which is tasked to study and coordinate the redevelopment of estates, including following up the progress of redevelopment projects, as well as reviewing the redevelopment potential of aged estates other than the 22 estates; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my consolidated reply to Mr KWOK Wai-keung's question is as follows:
The Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") has all along been conducting various technical studies with a view to exploring how to make better use of new and existing housing resources. The list of 22 aged public rental housing ("PRH") estates mentioned in the question originated from a technical review conducted in 2013. While the review has certain reference value, in considering whether to redevelop individual aged PRH estates, HA will, in a prudent manner, take into account the actual circumstances according to the four basic principles (namely, structural conditions of buildings, cost-effectiveness of repair works, availability of suitable rehousing resources in the vicinity of the estates to be redeveloped and build-back potential upon redevelopment) under HA's "Refined Policy on Redevelopment of Aged Public Rental Housing Estates" formulated in 2011.
The Long Term Housing Strategy published by the Government in December 2014 has analysed the issue of redevelopment of aged PRH estates. It has pointed out that while redevelopment may increase PRH supply over the long term, it will, in the short term, reduce PRH stock available for allocation. This will inevitably add further pressure on HA's target in maintaining the average waiting time ("AWT") at about three years. The net gain in flat supply from redevelopment will take a long time to realize, very often towards the latter if not the last phase of the redevelopment. Therefore, redevelopment of aged PRH estates can only play a subsidiary role in increasing PRH supply. With the persistently strong demand for PRH, a massive redevelopment programme will freeze a large number of PRH units that may otherwise be allocated to households in need, causing an instant adverse effect on AWT. Hence, it is not a desirable option.
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HA will continue to implement various programmes and measures to maintain and improve the building conditions of the aged PRH estates so as to provide residents with a safe and comfortable living environment. HA launched the Comprehensive Structural Investigation Programme ("CSIP") in 2005 to ascertain the structural safety of PRH estates with building age at about 40 or above, and assess the repair works needed for sustaining such estates for at least 15 years and their cost-effectiveness. The 22 non-divested aged PRH estates were among the 42 PRH estates under the first cycle of CSIP completed in 2018. The investigation results reveal that these estates are structurally safe and the required repair works are cost-effective. HA will, once every 15 years, investigate again the structural conditions of PRH estates that have undergone structural investigation and been decided to be retained so as to ensure that the buildings are structurally safe and financially sustainable.
There are many factors affecting the maintenance expenditure of PRH estates, including building age, design, structural condition, location, maintenance status, etc., hence it is not appropriate to make direct comparison on the expenditure solely among individual PRH estates or based on the building age. The total expenditure for maintenance and improvement works in the past five years (i.e. 2013-2014 to 2017-2018) for all HA's PRH properties was about $15.3 billion, of which $1.75 billion was for the 22 PRH estates mentioned in the question.
As regards the rehousing of the households affected by redevelopment/estate clearance, in the past five years (i.e. 2013-2014 to 2017-2018), HA rehoused a total of 912 households affected by completed clearance projects, of which 904 households accepted allocation at PRH units, two households opted for cash allowance in lieu of rehousing, three households moved out from their units voluntarily, three households were not eligible for rehousing since they breached the tenancy agreements and had their tenancies terminated and PRH units recovered. As regards the ongoing redevelopment/estate clearance projects (including Blocks 9, 10, 11 and 13 of Pak Tin Estate and Mei Tung House and Mei Po House of Mei Tung Estate), there are 2 914 households needed to be rehoused.
In general, HA announces the redevelopment project officially three years prior to the commencement of the clearance operation. Rehousing of households affected by the clearance of estate will commence 30 months before the final evacuation. Before the target clearance date, affected households will 9294 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 have opportunities to participate in the sale exercises of subsidized sale flats ("SSFs") (including Home Ownership Scheme and Green Form Subsidised Home Ownership Scheme) with green form and priority in flat selection. All eligible households will be allocated PRH units if they have not accepted other rehousing arrangements, including the purchase of SSF before the final relocation deadline. We believe that the above arrangements have allowed the households sufficient time to arrange for relocation.
In addition, if the occupation date of a pre-sold SSF is later than the final relocation deadline of the project, the affected households will be required to move out of their PRH units and arrange accommodation on their own. HA will grant Domestic Removal Allowance to these households. We trust that the above arrangement is appropriate.
Food safety and descriptions of sashimi and sushi
16. MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Chinese): President, last month, the Consumer Council published the test results of 50 sashimi samples taken at the retail level, which included that: 98% of the samples contained a heavy metal compound of methylmercury (of a level exceeding the limit by nearly two-folds at the most), some samples carried parasites and worm eggs, and some samples were actually rainbow trout and low-priced tuna although the species shown on their descriptions were salmon and high-priced bluefin tuna respectively. Regarding the food safety and descriptions of sashimi and sushi, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it received, in the past three years, reports on members of the public having been found to have (i) parasites or worm eggs and (ii) a high level of methylmercury in their bodies after consuming sashimi or sushi; if so, of the respective numbers of such cases;
(2) of the quantity of fish imported in each of the past three years for making sashimi or sushi (with a breakdown by species); the respective numbers of samples of such fish taken in each of the past three years at the (i) wholesale and (ii) retail levels by the Centre for Food Safety under the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD") for testing microorganisms and heavy metals, and the respective numbers and percentages of such samples found to contain (a) parasites or worm eggs and (b) methylmercury;
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(3) of the number of surprise inspections conducted in each of the past three years by law enforcement officers of FEHD on food premises selling sashimi or sushi; the number of prosecutions instituted against the operators of those food premises which were found, during such inspections, to have breached the Food Business Regulation (Cap. 132 sub. leg. X) (with a breakdown by type of offences), and the number of those food premises the food business licences of which were cancelled as a result;
(4) whether the Customs and Excise Department, for the purpose of enforcing the Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362) in each of the past three years,
(i) deployed law enforcement officers to take sashimi and sushi samples from food premises for tests to ascertain if the species to which they belonged tallied with those shown on the descriptions; if so, of the number of the relevant prosecutions, and
(ii) provided training for its law enforcement officers on the identification of fish species; if so, of the number of officers who received such training; and
(5) whether it has put in place new measures to enhance the food safety of sashimi and sushi, in order to protect public health; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance (Cap. 132) stipulates that all food for sale for human consumption in Hong Kong must be fit for human consumption.
The maximum permitted concentration levels of metallic contaminants in food are stipulated in the Food Adulteration (Metallic Contamination) Regulations (Cap. 132V). Fish contains various nutrients (e.g. omega-3 fatty acid and high quality proteins) essential for the human body, but certain types of fish, including the larger species such as shark, swordfish, alfonsino and some tuna species, may contain higher levels of methylmercury. The Centre for Food Safety ("CFS") of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD") 9296 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 always advises that pregnant women, women planning pregnancy and young children should avoid eating these types of fish. CFS also encourages the public to maintain a balanced and diversified diet.
Good aquaculture practices and/or freezing treatment can reduce the risk of parasites in aquatic products. The Code of Practice for Fish and Fishery Products issued by the Codex Alimentarius Commission states that freezing fish at -20ºC or below for seven days or at -35ºC for about 20 hours can kill parasites. Even though the dead parasites will remain in the meat of the fish, the risk of parasitic infection can still be effectively minimized. FEHD has been educating and reminding the trade to obtain from importers an official health certificate issued by the place of origin, so as to ensure that the food concerned has been properly handled (e.g. by good aquaculture practices and/or freezing treatment).
The Food Business Regulation (Cap. 132X) stipulates that anyone involved in the sale of restricted foods (including sashimi, sushi, and oysters and meat to be eaten raw, etc.) or the provision of sashimi for consumption in a restaurant is required to obtain permission from the Director of Food and Environmental Hygiene. According to the licensing conditions, ingredients for preparing sashimi dishes in food premises should be properly stored and handled. FEHD conducts inspections to licensed food premises based on their risk levels to examine the hygiene conditions of the premises and check their compliance with the licensing conditions and the relevant statutory requirements.
CFS has been reminding the public through various channels of the risks of consuming raw fish and the various points to note, including patronizing reliable food premises and shops which are licensed or issued with a permit for selling the food concerned.
To safeguard food safety, CFS takes samples at the import, wholesale and retail levels under a risk-based approach for testing.
Our reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) The Department of Health does not keep the relevant statistics.
(2) CFS does not keep statistics on the quantities and types of sashimi products imported into Hong Kong each year.
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From January 2016 to March 2019, CFS collected about 1 000 samples of different types of sashimi for chemical (including metallic contaminants) and microbiological testing. Only three samples were detected with the total mercury levels exceeding the legal standard, and the rest all passed the tests. The overall satisfactory rate was 99.7%. CFS has made public the test results of the unsatisfactory samples and taken follow-up actions, which included instructing the relevant vendors to stop selling the sashimi products concerned, and tracing the sources and distribution of the incriminated sashimi.
(3) The numbers of inspections to food premises conducted by FEHD and prosecutions against food premises for selling restricted foods without permission, and the numbers of food premises with licence suspended or cancelled over the past three years are as follows:
2019 2016 2017 2018 (up to 31 March) Number of inspections 247 422 248 452 230 254 54 896 to food premises Number of prosecutions against sale of restricted 21 18 22 7 foods without permission Number of food premises with licence 109 103 93 19 suspended Number of food premises with licence 11 2 6 0 cancelled
FEHD does not have breakdown of the above statistics concerning food premises selling sushi and sashimi.
(4) According to the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, under the Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362) ("TDO"), any person who applies a false or misleading description to goods 9298 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
supplied in the course of any trade or business commits an offence. The Customs and Excise Department ("C&ED") has proactively handled complaints or referrals from relevant government departments in accordance with TDO, including test purchases, sending samples to laboratories for testing and seeking advice from experts in identification of fish species. C&ED will take appropriate enforcement actions for violation of TDO.
Between 2016 and 2018, C&ED received a total of 46 complaints involving fish products with false claims on product species (including six complaints involving sashimi and sushi). After consolidating these complaints, 14 detailed investigation cases were established by C&ED. During the same period, there were seven successful prosecution cases with imposition of fine ranging from $3,000 to $18,000. Besides, six cases were concluded with acceptance of undertaking from the traders.
(5) FEHD will continue to carry out inspections to licensed food premises in accordance with their risk levels. CFS will continue to remind the public through various channels about the risks of consuming raw fish and the relevant points to note. It will also continue to adopt a risk-based approach in taking food samples at the import, wholesale and retail levels for testing.
Participation of small and medium enterprises and start-ups in government procurements
17. MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Chinese): President, the Government introduced in April this year a new procurement policy which raised the weighting of the technical aspect in the overall score during tender assessment, in order to help small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") and start-ups participate in tender exercises and create business opportunities. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) in respect of the routine and non-routine procurements conducted by the various government departments in the past 12 months respectively:
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(a) of (i) the number of procurements conducted and (ii) the average value of the contracts awarded, broken down by the technical/price weightings adopted for the procurements (set out in tables of the same format as Table 1); and
Table 1 Technical/ Number of Average value of price weighting procurements conducted contracts awarded 100/0 90/10 80/20 70/30 60/40
(b) of the number of procurements conducted, broken down by (i) the mode of tendering and (ii) the group to which the contract values belonged (set out in tables of the same format as Table 2):
Table 2 Contract Mode of tendering value Single or Open Selective Prequalified (thousand restricted tendering tendering tendering dollars) tendering Below
2,000 2,000 to below 5,000 5,000 to below 10,000 10,000 or
above
(2) of the number of policy bureaux/government departments using the full services of the e-Procurement System as at the end of March 2019; the total value of procurements completed through the 9300 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
e-Procurement System in the past three years, and the percentage of such value in the total value of public procurements completed in the same period;
(3) of the specific measures taken to streamline the procedure for tendering and contract formulation etc. in order to facilitate the participation in government procurements by SMEs which lack manpower and resources; whether it will conduct studies on further improving the e-Procurement System and applying financial technologies (including Faster Payment System) to help government departments enhance their efficiency in making payments to enterprises, with a view to improving the cash flow situation of the SMEs and start-ups concerned;
(4) whether it has studied the introduction of the practices of overseas places which aim to foster the participation of suppliers of varying sizes in government procurements (e.g. the United Kingdom Government's adoption of "Digital Marketplace" and simplification of the standard contracts for public-sector procurement) in order to facilitate the direct participation of SMEs in government procurement;
(5) whether it will step up the relevant publicity efforts (e.g. by organizing more experience sharing sessions and seminars) to encourage enterprises in various industries to participate in government procurements, and more proactively provide SMEs and start-ups with information on government procurements (e.g. by including such enterprises in the lists of approved suppliers/contractors);
(6) whether, upon implementation of the new procurement policy, it has set any indicators and regularly analyzed relevant statistics (including the characteristics of tenderers/contractors/suppliers/ service providers) in order to study and follow up the impacts of government procurement policy on economic, social and innovation activities; and
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(7) whether it will encourage non-governmental organizations (including public organizations, quasi-government organizations and non-profit-making organizations), when conducting procurements, to make reference to the Government's adoption of a procurement policy which is not solely based on the "lowest bid wins" principle?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, having consulted the Government Logistics Department ("GLD"), Efficiency Office ("EffO"), Office of the Government Chief Information Officer ("OGCIO"), Electrical and Mechanical Services Department ("EMSD"), and the Trade and Industry Department ("TID"), my reply to the question is as follows:
(1) Prior to 1 April 2019, departments usually adopted the then-prevailing normally allowed range of technical weighting of 30% to 40% in the marking schemes for the procurement of stores, services (excluding consultancy services and works services) and revenue contracts. Departments might adopt an alternative technical weighting if they considered it necessary and with the prior approval of the relevant tender board. Since 1 April 2019, under the pro-innovation government procurement policy, the normally allowed technical weighting has been increased to 50% to 70%. Similarly, departments may adopt a higher technical weighting if necessary and with prior approval from the relevant tender board. Following the implementation of the new policy, we envisage that more government departments will adopt higher technical weightings than in the past and emphasize more on the quality of the tenders in awarding contracts.
Government procurements involve various departments, and are approved by different tender boards according to the value of the contracts. Regarding part (1) of the question, information of the contracts for procurement of stores, services (excluding consultancy services and works services) and revenue contracts approved by the relevant tender boards is listed out in accordance with the requirements in Table 1 and Table 2 at Annex 1.
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(2) Regarding the adoption of electronic means for conducting procurement, GLD has maintained two systems: (1) the e-Tender Box ("ETB") system and (2) the Procurement and Contract Management System ("PCMS").
The ETB system enables government departments to handle issues related to the procurement of stores through tendering. Through the Internet, registered suppliers can access to the system to download tender documents free of charge, submit tender proposals, enquire on tendering matters, and access to tender notices and notices of contract award.
PCMS stores and manages contracts handled by GLD. Contractors of GLD can gain access to acceptance letters and electronic purchase orders via the relevant system. At present, there is no centralized system in the Government for the management of contracts by departments.
The relevant statistics of the ETB system and PCMS are at Annex 2.
Apart from the above mentioned electronic procurement systems of GLD, a total of 33 departments have fully adopted the e-Procurement Programme of OGCIO to procure stores and services (excluding consultancy services and works services) of value not exceeding $1.4 million. The other departments have also used the e-Procurement Programme to procure information technology products and relevant services of value not exceeding $1.4 million. Information regarding the procurements completed via the e-Procurement Programme in the past three years is at Annex 3.
(3) to (7)
The Government has kept the procurement arrangements under review, with a view to streamlining and expediting the procurement process. Relevant specific work includes delegating the authority to award contracts to procuring departments; dispensing with the need to conduct financial vetting for low-value and/or low risk procurements to expedite the procurement process; and simplifying the legal vetting requirement for tender documents, etc. The aim is to streamline the approval procedures and expedite the procurement process.
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In respect of facilitation for small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") to participate in procurement, procuring departments are required to split large contracts into smaller ones as far as possible to facilitate the participation of SMEs and lower the risk of over-concentration of government contracts; simplify tender documents as far as possible and avoid setting over-prescriptive requirements in the tender documents, so as to relieve the burden of the tenderers and avoid unnecessarily disqualifying tenderers from participation in government procurement. At the same time, departments should adopt a phased payment approach where possible when formulating the payment arrangement and ensure timely payment in a reasonable time frame, in order to relieve the stress on the contractors' cashflow.
On conducting procurement through electronic means, GLD would keep in view closely the needs of the tenderers of procuring departments, review and explore from time to time further improvements to the relevant procurement systems. OGCIO is also proactively encouraging departments to utilize the e-Procurement Programme more extensively. The Treasury and the relevant government departments would continue to keep in view the development of payment means in the market, introduce new application of financial technology at appropriate junctures, and promote the application of payment by electronic means, so as to enhance the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of government payments.
Furthermore, as SMEs and start-ups may have limited experience and track record (especially in undertaking government contracts), starting from 1 April 2019, departments should in general not set tenderers' experience as an essential requirement for participating in procurement unless absolutely necessary and with prior approval. This new requirement minimizes the entry barriers of participation in government procurement and helps encourage SMEs and start-ups to participate in bidding. Additionally, to avoid placing SMEs and start-ups in an unduly disadvantageous position, tenderers' experience (not being an essential requirement) should generally account for no more than 15% of the total technical marks in the marking schemes.
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Relevant departments also collaborate outside the procurement system to introduce measures to facilitate the participation of SMEs and start-ups in government procurement, and enhance the promotion of government procurement opportunities. GLD has updated and published the Government's upcoming procurement plans on its website regularly to facilitate planning by prospective tenderers for participation in the bidding. GLD would also join procuring departments' pre-tender briefings upon request to introduce the procurement procedures under the new policy. EffO would organize trade shows to invite the innovation and technology ("I&T") sector to showcase available innovative solutions, and enhance the awareness and knowledge of procuring departments of the latest technology that can be sourced from the market. The first trade show was held on 24 April 2019, in which GLD had also participated to introduce the new procurement arrangements.
On the other hand, EMSD and OGCIO provide electronic platforms outside the procurement system to help connect and match government departments and innovative proposals of the industry. The "E&M InnoPortal" of EMSD publishes the technological needs of departments, and invites the I&T organizations (such as universities and start-ups) to provide electrical- and mechanical-related I&T solutions in accordance with the needs for matching through the Portal for testing and verification. The "Smart Government Innovation Lab", soon to be launched by OGCIO, will gather government departments' needs, and invite innovative ideas and product proposals from the industry for addressing different city management challenges encountered by departments. The Lab will also arrange proof of concept and technology testing for the suitable solutions. Although the "E&M InnoPortal" and "Smart Government Innovation Lab" do not involve procurement arrangements, they can provide a collaborative platform to connect with the industry, so as to help departments understand the I&T developments and better prepare for their procurements.
Apart from the above mentioned new measures, other government departments will continue to implement different measures to support the development of SMEs. For example, TID administers a number of funding schemes to assist Hong Kong enterprises, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9305
including SMEs, in obtaining financing and enhancing their overall competitiveness while the Department's Support and Consultation Centre for SMEs provides business information and consultation services to SMEs free of charge. If needed, the Centre would refer enquiries for information on government procurement from SMEs to GLD for follow-up.
GLD would collect from departments information of their procurements regularly for future review of the implementation of the new policy. Government procurement does not mean buying the cheapest. The Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau has shared the new arrangements and measures of government procurement through the relevant Policy Bureaux with various non-governmental organizations ("NGOs"), and encouraged NGOs to adopt and make reference to them.
Annex 1
Regarding the procurement of stores, services (excluding consultancy services and works services) and revenue contracts, during the period from 1 January 2018 to 31 December 2018, information of the contracts for which tender assessment was based on marking schemes with technical weightings at or above 60% adopted by the procuring departments, and approved by the Central Tender Board(1) ("CTB") and the GLD Tender Board(2) are listed in Table 1.
The two tender boards do not have the breakdown of routine or non-routine procurements. Procurements of value not exceeding $5 million are approved by the Departmental Tender Committees(3) of individual procuring departments. GLD does not have the information of the technical weighting adopted in these procurements.
(1) Responsible for approving procurements of value exceeding $30 million each.
(2) Responsible for approving procurements of value exceeding $5 million but not exceeding $30 million each. Since 1 April 2019, the approving authority of the GLD Tender Board has been adjusted to cover procurements of value exceeding $10 million but not exceeding $30 million each.
(3) Responsible for approving procurements of value not exceeding $5 million each. Since 1 April 2019, the approving authority of the Departmental Tender Committees has been adjusted to cover procurements of value not exceeding $10 million each. 9306 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Table 1: Technical and price weightings of the procurements
Value of contracts awarded Technical/price weighting Number of procurements ($ million) 100/0 0 - 90/10 0 - 80/20 5 42.7 to 102.9 70/30 0 - 60/40 5 6.7 to 95.8
During the period from 1 January 2018 to 31 December 2018, the number of procurement of stores, services (excluding consultancy services and works services) and revenue contracts through different tendering modes and approved by the CTB, GLD Tender Board and Departmental Tender Committees is listed in Table 2.
Table 2: Tenders conducted through different modes
Single or Contract value Open Selective Prequalified restricted ($ million) tendering tendering tendering tendering Below 5(Note) 349 0 8 0 5 to 10 138 1 6 0 Above 10 251 0 12 0
Note:
GLD does not have the further breakdown of these procurements.
Annex 2
Table 3: Information on utilization of the e-Tender Box system
Year Government departments using the service Total number of tender 2016 7 211 2017 10 183 2018 10 188
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Table 4: GLD contracts handled and awarded via the Procurement and Contract Management System(Note)
Year Value of GLD Value of government Percentage of value of GLD of contracts contracts contracts in the value of award ($ million) ($ million) government procurement 2016 2,631.9 15,983.1 16.5% 2017 4,206.9 15,697.6 26.8% 2018 4,160.3 20,422.7 20.4%
Note:
The Procurement and Contract Management System handles and awards all GLD contracts procured via tendering procedures.
Annex 3
Table 5: Procurements conducted via e-Procurement Programme of OGCIO
Percentage of value of Value of procurements procurements conducted via conducted via Value of e-Procurement Programme in the Year e-Procurement procurement value of government Programme of OGCIO ($ million) procurements of value not ($ million) exceeding $1.4 million each 2016 832.4 7,914.1 10.5% 2017 959.2 8,199.6 11.7% 2018 1,465.3 8,832.3 16.6%
Monitoring the quality of major public works projects
18. MR PAUL TSE (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that since the commissioning of the Hong Kong Velodrome ("HKV") which was built at a cost of $1.1 billion, a total of 234 water seepage incidents have occurred in HKV. Recently when the amber rainstorm signal was in force, there was even a serious accumulation of water in HKV, which was caused by the automatic opening of the roof windows due to malfunctioning of the fire alarm system. Bemoaning the damage caused to the cycling track in HKV, a local athlete, who is a winner in the Track Cycling World Championship, posted a message on the Internet that 9308 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 she personally mopped dry the water spots on the cycling track. Responses of members of the public on the Internet and the media have both expressed dissatisfaction with the water seepage incidents. In addition, enhancement works were needed to be carried out at The Grand Theatre of the Xiqu Centre, which was built at a cost of $2.7 billion but had a utilization rate of merely 31%, just three months after its opening. Besides, the Central-Wan Chai Bypass ("the Bypass") is installed with three sets of air purification system claiming to be the world's largest system which can filter 80% of respirable suspended particulates and nitrogen dioxide from vehicle exhaust. Nevertheless, just several days after the commissioning of the Bypass, the operation of seven out of the 15 fans installed in the air purification system of the East Ventilation Building were suspended due to damage. Some commentators on current affairs have pointed out that various types of quality problems have emerged in major public works projects in recent years on which the Government had spent substantial amounts of public money, and members of the public are in fact "paying money to buy sufferings". In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has assessed (i) the negative impacts on the Government's image caused, and (ii) if there has been a blow to the confidence of members of the public in the Government's governance ability and proper use of public money, by the successive emergence of quality problems in the aforesaid public works projects; if it has assessed, of the outcome; if it has not assessed, the reasons for that;
(2) as the Chief Secretary for Administration has recently said that the total infrastructure investments in transport, hospitals, housing developments, etc. in the coming decade are estimated to exceed $1,000 billion, of the Government's new policies and measures to strengthen its monitoring and control of works projects and to enhance its efforts in holding the government officials in charge of works projects accountable for the projects, so as to avoid recurrence of quality problems in works projects; and
(3) whether it has reviewed if the Project Strategy and Governance Office is sufficiently empowered and staffed to monitor the costs and quality of the aforesaid works projects which will cost more than $1,000 billion?
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SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Government has been implementing Capital Works Programme in a moderate and orderly manner to enhance people's quality of living, to sustain Hong Kong's long term competitiveness and to promote Hong Kong's economic development. In the next few years, the annual capital works investment is expected to rise to over $100 billion, including projects such as the Central Kowloon Route and the Hospital Development Plan, and the annual total construction output will increase to over $300 billion. In addition to this substantial workload, we are facing the challenges of extremely high construction cost and fast ageing construction work force. To tackle these challenges, we have been working hard on promoting relevant strategies to uplift the construction industry's delivery capacity, improving the overall productivity as well as ensuring the works quality for smooth implementation of public works projects.
Our responses to the three parts of the question raised by Mr TSE are as follows:
(1) We have in place a well-established and very effective works quality supervision system for public works projects. According to the World Economic Forum, Hong Kong is ranked number two in infrastructure. We also understand the public's concern about the performance and quality of public works. As announced in the 2019-2020 Budget, in order to boost the overall productivity, quality, safety and environmental performance of the industry, we will lead the construction industry in implementing "Construction 2.0" by advocating innovation, professionalization and revitalization to ensure the quality of public works by enhancing the performance of the industry. We are now deepening the various measures in the "Construction 2.0" for implementation as early as possible to meet the public's aspirations for the performance of public works projects. As regards the various cases mentioned by Mr TSE, we understand that the relevant departments have already made appropriate follow-up actions.
(2) At the moment, we are upgrading the Project Cost Management Office and rename it as the Project Strategy and Governance Office ("PSGO") for implementing strategic initiatives and enhancing capabilities in cost surveillance and project governance. We will 9310 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
adopt a holistic approach to strengthen cost management and uplift the performance of public works projects by implementing major initiatives along the following directions:
(i) strengthening the existing gateway process for cost management;
(ii) enhancing project delivery capabilities;
(iii) leading strategic developments to enhance cost-effectiveness; and
(iv) enhancing collaboration with international counterparts and local industry stakeholders.
On the other hand, to enhance project delivery capabilities, the Government will establish a Centre of Excellence for Major Project Leaders ("CoE") to instil in relevant public officers a more innovative mindset and equip them with enhanced leadership skills for delivering public works projects. We have earmarked $40 million for the first three years of CoE's operations for around 150 to 200 directorate officers in relevant bureaux and departments. CoE will start the programme in mid-2019.
The Financial Secretary has mentioned in the 2019-2020 Budget Speech that in order to ensure the performance of public works supervision, we will promote digitization of the supervision system. Pilot projects will be launched to motivate site supervisors and contractors to use innovative technology to collect real-time data on site environment and works progress for record, monitoring and analysis purposes. We have set up a task force to plan and coordinate inter-departmental work in this regard.
(3) PSGO will be a multi-disciplinary office dedicated to enhancing the performance of public works projects. It is headed by a Principal Government Engineer, who will be assisted by a Government Engineer, a Chief Engineer and 10 non-directorate professional staff of various professional grades, such as Architect, Engineer, and Quantity Surveyor. We are now seeking the Legislative Council's LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9311
approval for the respective directorate grade posts. After the establishment of PSGO, we will review the resources of PSGO from time to time to ensure sufficient staff and resources are in place to cope with the workload.
Financial support for patients of end-stage renal failure
19. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Chinese): President, patients of end-stage renal failure need to receive dialysis treatment in order to stabilize their medical conditions and maintain their lives. Some patients who receive peritoneal dialysis treatment at home have said that the monthly medical and relevant expenses (including those on buying sterilization products and medicines as well as on delivering dialysis solutions) have imposed a heavy financial burden on them. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has compiled statistics on the respective numbers of persons who (i) received peritoneal dialysis treatment at home and (ii) received haemodialysis treatment at public hospitals, private hospitals and dialysis centres established by charitable organizations, in each of the past five years; if so, of the numbers;
(2) whether it has compiled statistics on the average monthly related expenses on dialysis treatment of the two types of persons mentioned in (1); if so, of the details; and
(3) whether it will provide financial support through the Community Care Fund for patients receiving dialysis treatment; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Mr Holden CHOW is as follows:
(1) The Hospital Authority ("HA") provides renal replacement therapy services, including haemodialysis ("HD") treatment, peritoneal dialysis ("PD") treatment and kidney transplant, for patients with 9312 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
end-stage renal failure. The respective numbers of patients receiving HD treatment at public hospitals or PD treatment at home in the past five years are tabulated as follows:
2014- 2015- 2016- 2017- 2018- Year 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019* Number of patients receiving 1 302 1 358 1 428 1 486 1 570 HD treatment# Number of patients receiving 3 979 4 031 4 311 4 397 4 543 PD treatment at home
Notes:
* Provisional figures
# The figures include clinically suitable patients, as assessed by Nephrologists of HA to join the Haemodialysis Public-Private Partnership Programme ("HD PPP"). HD services are procured from 12 qualified community HD centres, while HA renal units would continue to provide regular clinic follow-up, drug prescriptions and investigations. The numbers of patients participating in HD PPP in the past five years are set out below:
2014- 2015- 2016- 2017- 2018- Year 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019* Number of patients who 203 208 236 253 278 received HD treatment under HD PPP
Note:
* Provisional figures
Apart from participants of HD PPP, the Food and Health Bureau and the Department of Health do not have figures on the number of patients receiving HD treatment in private hospitals and charitable organizations.
(2) and (3)
At present, HA provides renal replacement therapy services for public hospital patients under standard fees and charges, including the provision of general drugs such as dialysis solutions. In LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9313 general, patients receiving renal replacement therapy services are only required to additionally pay for treatment-related consumable items, including sterile supplies. The expenditure involved is about $1,000 to $3,000 per month. Medical social workers will, as far as possible, help needy and eligible patients to apply for financial assistance provided by the Social Welfare Department or other charitable funds to purchase the necessary consumable items. There are also charitable organizations subsidizing patients in using the medical devices for renal replacement therapy at home.
Patients under HD PPP are required to pay the community HD centres a co-payment which is equivalent to that charged by HA for its day procedure and treatment at Renal Clinic. Currently the fee for each session is $96. If the patient is a recipient of Comprehensive Social Security Assistance, a holder of a valid full or partial medical fee waiver certificate issued by an authorized government or HA social worker (except the "Certificate of Old Age Living Allowance Recipients (for Medical Waivers)"), or a Level 0 Voucher Holder of the Pilot Scheme on Residential Care Service Voucher for the Elderly, the corresponding waiver would apply.
HA provides assistance through the Community Care Fund ("CCF") Medical Assistance Programmes for patients with financial difficulties, in particular those who fall outside the social safety net or those who are within the safety net but have special needs that are not covered. CCF Medical Assistance Programmes currently include the First Phase Programme (specific self-financed cancer drugs), Subsidy for Eligible Patients to Purchase Ultra-expensive Drugs (Including Those for Treating Uncommon Disorders), and Subsidy for Eligible Patients of Hospital Authority to Purchase Specified Implantable Medical Devices for Interventional Procedures.
As the medical equipment and consumables for renal replacement therapy do not involve implantable medical devices for interventional procedures, they are not covered by the above CCF medical assistance programmes.
9314 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
HA will continue to review the coverage of CCF Medical Assistance Programmes under the established mechanism, and will regularly recommend suitable drugs and medical devices to the relevant committees for consideration of inclusion in the relevant programmes, in order for CCF to plug the gaps in the existing system.
Legislation against clandestine photo-taking
20. DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, last month, the Court of Final Appeal handed down a judgment on an appeal case, ruling that as the acts of the respondents clandestinely taking photographs of interview questions with their own mobile phones and divulging them to other people had not involved access to another person's computer, the respondents had not committed the offence under section 161(1)(c) of the Crimes Ordinance (Cap. 200) (i.e. the offence of obtaining access to a computer with a view to dishonest gain for himself or another person). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) as the Government indicated, subsequent to the handling down of the aforesaid judgment, that the Police were discussing with the Department of Justice ways to deal with nine other cases of a similar nature, of the details of those cases and the approach for dealing with them;
(2) as there are comments that following the handing down of the aforesaid judgment, it will be difficult for the Police to invoke any legislation to institute prosecutions against those persons who take photographs clandestinely with their own mobile phones in a private place, of the Government's measures to curb such acts before any legislation is enacted to plug the loophole;
(3) as the Review of Sexual Offences Subcommittee of the Law Reform Commission proposed the creation of a new offence of voyeurism and conducted public consultation on the proposal in May last year, whether the Government will immediately commence the relevant legislative procedure; if so, of the details and the timetable; if not, the reasons for that;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9315
(4) whether it will immediately conduct a study on enacting legislation against acts of clandestine photo-taking of confidential documents or information; if so, of the details and the timetable; if not, the reasons for that; and
(5) given that at present, the non-compliance of a data user with the Data Protection Principles stipulated in the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance (Cap. 486) does not directly constitute a criminal offence, and the data user commits a criminal offence only if he or she contravenes an enforcement notice served on him or her by the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data in connection with such non-compliance, and that the offence only carries a maximum fine of $50,000 and an imprisonment of two years, whether the Government will amend Cap. 486 to enhance the deterrent effects against acts of privacy intrusion such as clandestine photo-taking; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, section 161 of the Crimes Ordinance ("CO") (Cap. 200) on "access to computer with criminal or dishonest intent" stipulates that any person who obtains access to a computer:
(a) with intent to commit an offence;
(b) with a dishonest intent to deceive;
(c) with a view to dishonest gain for himself or another; or
(d) with a dishonest intent to cause loss to another,
whether on the same occasion as he obtains such access or on any future occasion, commits an offence.
The above provision aims at combating acts of "access to computer with criminal or dishonest intent", such as technology crimes like illegal access to a computer system. The maximum penalty is five-year imprisonment on conviction upon indictment.
9316 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
On 4 April 2019, the Court of Final Appeal ("CFA") held in Secretary for Justice v CHENG Ka Yee & 3 Others [2019] HKCFA 9 that the text, context, and purpose of section 161(1)(c) of CO pointed towards construing the provision so that it does not extend to the use of the offender's own computer. In other words, on its proper construction, section 161(1)(c) of CO does not apply to the use by a person of the person's own computer, not involving access to another's computer.
The Government respects CFA's ruling. The judgment helps clarify the relevant statutory provisions and legal viewpoints. Having consulted the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, the Department of Justice ("DoJ") and the Secretariat of the Law Reform Commission ("LRC"), our reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
As at 30 April this year, the Police had eight cases related to the offence of "access to computer with criminal or dishonest intent" under section 161 of CO pending handling. As regards the other case, the charge has already been amended to the offence under the Hospital Authority Bylaws concerning the taking photograph of a patient in a hospital without consent, and legal proceedings are still ongoing. The Police will continue to maintain close liaison with DoJ to ensure that the relevant cases are handled appropriately, such as examining whether to proceed with prosecution with the charge of "access to computer with criminal or dishonest intent" in light of the circumstances of individual cases, or considering the feasibility of laying alternative charge(s).
Given that the facts of every case are different, there is no hard-and-fast rule on how to handle the relevant cases. In considering each case, DoJ will make relevant prosecutorial decisions based on the actual facts, evidence, applicable law and the Prosecution Code. Most legislation targeting the real world (such as theft, deception, etc.) also applies to crimes committed through the Internet or by means of technology. Focusing on obtaining access to a computer with criminal or dishonest intent, section 161 of CO remains effective against unlawful acts such as illegal computer intrusion and obtaining access to another's computer for committing other offence(s).
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9317
We understand the public's concern about acts such as clandestine upskirt-photography. Depending on the actual circumstances and evidence of the case, the acts may constitute the offence of "loitering" under section 160 of CO (Cap. 200) with a maximum penalty of imprisonment for two years; "disorder in public places" under section 17B of the Public Order Ordinance (Cap. 245) with a maximum penalty of a fine at level 2 and imprisonment for 12 months; or "outraging public decency" under the common law with a maximum penalty of imprisonment for seven years.
If the photo-taking activities involve "personal data" as defined in the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance ("PDPO") (Cap. 486), and the collection or handling of such personal data contravenes the data protection principles as set out in Schedule 1 to PDPO, the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data ("PCPD") may issue an enforcement notice to relevant persons. A person who contravenes an enforcement notice will, on first conviction, be liable to a maximum penalty of a fine at level 5 and imprisonment for two years plus a daily fine.
(3) and (4)
With regard to the impacts brought about by CFA's judgment handed down on 4 April 2019 in respect of section 161 of CO, the Security Bureau is looking into the judgment with relevant departments and proactively examining the legislative amendment on the crime concerned, with a view to introducing the relevant legislative proposal as soon as possible.
In that regard, in respect of the offence of voyeurism, LRC released a report on "Voyeurism and Non-consensual Upskirt-photography" on 30 April recommending the introduction of a new and specific offence of voyeurism to deal with acts of non-consensual observation or visual recording of another person for a sexual purpose; and a new and specific offence in respect of non-consensual upskirt-photography. The Security Bureau welcomes LRC's recommendations and will carefully study and follow up the report. We suggest discussing with the Panel in July, to be followed by a consultation, with a view to introducing a bill for the Legislative Council's scrutiny as soon as possible.
9318 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
On the other hand, in light of the rapid development associated with information technology, computer and the Internet, coupled with the potential for them to be exploited for carrying out criminal activities, an LRC subcommittee commenced its study on the topic of cybercrime in January this year. The Security Bureau will continue to closely monitor the progress of the study.
(5) Given the rapid development in information technology and online communications, technological advancement has brought new challenges to the protection of personal data privacy. The Government is highly concerned about how to improve the regulation on personal data and maintains an open mind on amending and improving PDPO. Currently, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau, jointly with the Office of PCPD, has commenced reviewing the relevant regulations and penalties of PDPO, including studying issues such as the establishment of a mandatory data breach notification mechanism, retention period of personal data and regulation of data processors. Having regard to the findings of the Office of PCPD's investigation on recent personal data breaches and its recommendations, the Government will decide how PDPO should be improved to enable the Office of PCPD to effectively strengthen the regulation on protection of personal data.
Use, disposal and recycling of styrofoam
21. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that since styrofoam takes as long as 10 000 years to decompose and has a huge impact on the environment, quite a number of countries have started to control the use of disposable styrofoam utensils. Regarding the use, disposal and recycling of styrofoam in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the major sources of the styrofoam disposed of at landfills;
(2) of the locations of the existing styrofoam collection points;
(3) of (i) the quantities of styrofoam disposed of and recovered, as well as (ii) the quantities of styrofoam collected from the sea and beaches, in the past five years;
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9319
(4) of the new measures to reduce local usage of styrofoam;
(5) given that the Environmental Protection Department is commencing a study on the feasibility, scope and mechanism of controlling or banning disposable plastic tableware, whether the study will cover styrofoam tableware; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(6) whether it will examine the formulation of an implementation timetable for banning styrofoam tableware; and
(7) whether it will allocate funding from the Recycling Fund to support styrofoam recycling; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, styrofoam (a trade name of "expanded polystyrene" or "polyfoam") is lightweight but the volume is large. A large amount of styrofoam recovered and processed will only produce small amount of plastic raw materials. The logistics and recycling costs are high. Coupled with the fact that most of the waste styrofoam is contaminated or contains impurities, the recycling efficiency of styrofoam is thus comparatively low. That said, styrofoam stays afloat for a long time once entering the marine environment and may affect marine ecology. Hence, we have been encouraging reduction of styrofoam at source. My responses to the various parts of the question raised by Mr CHAN Hak-kan are as follows:
(1) According to the reports on "Monitoring of Solid Waste in Hong Kong" compiled by the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD"), about 30 400 tonnes of waste styrofoam were disposed of at landfills in 2017, among which some 47% were styrofoam tableware, with the rest being styrofoam packaging materials like protective containers for electrical appliances and fresh meat, mesh wrap for fruit, etc. Analysed by waste category, about half of the waste styrofoam was domestic waste and the remaining half was commercial and industrial ("C&I") waste.
(2) For the reasons stated in the introduction, there is currently no large-scale commercial operation on styrofoam recycling in Hong Kong. Since 2015-2016, we have supported a styrofoam recycling project under the Environment and Conservation Fund ("ECF") with 9320 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
a view to trying out recycling of styrofoam. Commenced in June 2016, the project covers not only collection of styrofoam from C&I sectors and educational institutions, but also collaboration with various community groups and certain ECF-funded Community Recycling Centres to set up collection points across the territory for the public to recycle styrofoam.
(3) EPD does not compile statistics on the amount of styrofoam found in daily marine refuse collection. The quantities of styrofoam disposed of at landfills between 2014 and 2017 are tabulated below:
Year Quantity of styrofoam disposed of at landfills (tonnes) 2014 32 100 2015 41 000 2016 33 700 2017 30 400
The relevant statistics for 2018 are still under compilation.
EPD does not have any statistics on the volume of styrofoam recovered locally. Nonetheless, for the styrofoam recycling project funded by ECF as mentioned above, the total quantity of styrofoam recovered by the end of December 2018 was approximately 100 tonnes.
(4) With various publicity and education efforts, EPD has been striving to encourage the public and different sectors to reduce the use of single-use plastic items, especially styrofoam products, and promote the use of more environment-friendly substitutes. In the summer of 2018, we organized the "Plastic Free Beach, Tableware First" campaign at public beaches across the territory. More than 50 restaurants and kiosks participated and used bamboo sticks, paper straws and paper bags in place of disposable plastic (including styrofoam) tableware to promote the "plastic-free" culture to the public. The Environmental Campaign Committee has also launched the Reusable Tableware Lending Programme for Large-scale Events which offers one-stop delivery, collection and cleaning services of tableware to event organizers for free.
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The Government has also been encouraging the catering sector to provide reusable tableware and food containers. Under the Sustainable Development Fund, the Government supports the catering sector to formulate guidelines on green procurement for the trade, including their use of reusable or plant-fibre tableware instead of disposable plastic ones. Through the annual Hong Kong Awards for Environmental Excellence, EPD also commends organizations that have excelled in environmental management, including restaurants committed to waste reduction at source (such as taking measures to encourage customers not to ask for disposable tableware and food containers).
Starting from January 2019, the Government has taken the lead in banning plastic straws and styrofoam food containers in premises and canteens mainly serving government staff. Relevant departments, when inviting tenders for new contracts and renewing existing contracts, will also require restaurant operators in suitable government venues to avoid using disposable plastic tableware. Besides, ECF also sponsors local non-profit making organizations to explore environmental friendly and durable alternatives for foam boxes commonly used in the fishery market.
We are actively preparing for the implementation of the municipal solid waste charging scheme, under which financial incentives are provided to further encourage the public and C&I sectors to reduce waste at source, such as using less plastic products and materials including styrofoam.
(5) and (6)
We are conducting a study on the feasibility, scope and mechanism of controlling or banning the use of disposable plastic (including styrofoam) tableware to confirm whether there is a need for such control and, if needed, the scope and means of control and applicable substitutes, etc. EPD will also draw reference from approaches and specific situations worldwide on the control of disposable plastic tableware and their means of implementation, and consult the relevant trades and stakeholders. Based on the findings of our 9322 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
study and analysis, we will draw up a proposal that is suitable for implementation in Hong Kong in the long run. The study is scheduled for completion in 2020.
(7) The Government launched the $1 billion Recycling Fund in October 2015 to assist in upgrading the operational capabilities and efficiency of the recycling industry, thereby promoting waste recovery and recycling as well as reducing waste disposal at landfills. Under the Fund, the Enterprise Support Programme ("ESP") provides funding support on a matching basis, and supports individual enterprises to enhance and expand their local waste recycling business. The Fund has earmarked $50 million for Standard Projects under ESP to assist recyclers to procure different recycling equipment such as hot-melting machines and cold compactors for processing styrofoam, as well as air filtering equipment, etc. The Fund has earmarked another $50 million to encourage recyclers to use compactor trucks for the transportation of recyclables (including styrofoam), with a view to enhancing operational efficiency and reducing transportation cost.
Furthermore, EPD plans to roll out a two-year Pilot Scheme on Collection and Recycling Services of Waste Plastics ("the Pilot Scheme") in three different districts (i.e. Eastern District, Kwun Tong and Sha Tin) to provide free collection services for waste plastics (all types including styrofoam) from non-C&I sources in these districts, such as public and private housing estates, schools and public organizations. The waste plastics so collected will be further treated and recycled for producing recycled raw materials or products. The practical experience gained from the Pilot Scheme will benefit future expansion of the services across the whole territory. The tender of the waste plastics collection service contract for the Eastern District was closed on 26 April 2019. EPD is conducting tender assessment with a view to rolling out the service this year. Later on, we will also invite tenders for waste plastics collection services in Kwun Tong and then Sha Tin.
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Combating money laundering and terrorist financing activities
22. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, Hong Kong is a member of the Financial Action Task Force ("FATF"). On FATF's request, the Government examined the threats and vulnerabilities in respect of money laundering and terrorist financing that the relevant sectors in Hong Kong and the city as a whole were facing, as well as published a Hong Kong Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Risk Assessment Report in April last year. The Government has indicated that it has taken follow-up actions in the light of the assessment outcome ("follow-up actions"). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the number of reports received in each of the past five years by the authorities from financial institutions about suspicious transactions involving money laundering and terrorist financing, and the total amount of the funds involved; among such cases, of the to-date numbers of (i) cases in respect of which the authorities have taken law enforcement actions, and (ii) persons arrested, prosecuted and convicted respectively;
(2) of (i) the progress and achievements, as well as (ii) the manpower and resources deployed, since the authorities' taking the follow-up actions; and
(3) whether the authorities, when implementing measures to combat money laundering and terrorist financing activities, have maintained communication with the stakeholders of affected financial institutions and designated non-financial businesses and professions, so as to understanding the business environment they are facing and their practical needs, as well as to adjust the relevant measures on a regular basis; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President,
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(1) Under sections 25A of the Drug Trafficking (Recovery of Proceeds) Ordinance and the Organized and Serious Crimes Ordinance, as well as section 12 of the United Nations (Anti-Terrorism Measures) Ordinance, when a person knows or suspects that any property is proceeds of drug trafficking or an indictable offence, or terrorist property; or was used in connection with drug trafficking, an indictable offence or terrorist act; or is intended to be used in drug trafficking, an indictable offence or terrorist act, he or she should report his or her knowledge or suspicion to the Joint Financial Intelligence Unit ("JFIU") administrated jointly by the Hong Kong Police Force and the Customs and Excise Department as soon as practicable.
The number of suspicious transaction reports ("STRs") received by JFIU in the past five years is as follows:
Year 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 STRs 37 188 42 555 76 590 92 115 73 889
The number of persons prosecuted and convicted for money laundering in the past five years is as follows:
Year 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Persons prosecuted 212 149 121 133 143 Persons convicted 143 121 100 83 79
(2) Over the years, Hong Kong has established a robust anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist Financing ("AML/CTF") regime. The Government makes regular efforts to enhance the regime, having regard to developments in international standards and changes in security landscape. Taking last year as an example, Hong Kong's AML/CTF regime was further strengthened with the commencement of several pieces of legislation. These include the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorist Financing (Financial Institutions) (Amendment) Ordinance 2018, which extends the statutory customer due diligence and record-keeping requirements to designated non-financial businesses and professions and introduces a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9325
licensing regime in respect of trust or company service providers; the Companies (Amendment) Ordinance 2018, which requires locally incorporated companies to maintain beneficial ownership information for inspection by law enforcement agencies where needed; the Cross-boundary Movement of Physical Currency and Bearer Negotiable Instruments Ordinance, which establishes a declaration and disclosure system to detect the movement of large quantities of physical currency and bearer negotiable instruments into or out of Hong Kong; the United Nations (Anti-Terrorism Measures) (Amendment) Ordinance 2018, which implements the relevant United Nations Security Council ("UNSC") resolutions on prohibiting travelling, organizing, facilitating or financing travel for the purpose of terrorist training and prohibiting any person from dealing with properties of a terrorist or terrorist associate; and the United Nations Sanctions (Amendment) Ordinance 2018, which enables regulations made under the Ordinance to impose sanctions directly against persons designated by UNSC, as well as the relevant regulation to implement the latest UNSC resolutions against the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
The manpower and other resources involved in the above work are absorbed by the relevant bureaux/departments from within their existing resources. The Government does not maintain a separate breakdown.
(3) In implementing AML/CTF measures, the Government maintains close communication with relevant industries and stakeholders to hear their views and ensure that the measures are practicable and implementable. The amendment of the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorist Financing Ordinance last year is a case in point. In addition to prior consultation on the legislative proposals, the Government and the regulatory bodies concerned organized a good number of seminars and workshops for the sectors after enactment of the amendment Ordinance. Sector-specific guidelines were also issued to assist the affected sectors to comply with the legal requirements.
9326 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
GOVERNMENT BILLS
First Reading and Second Reading of Government Bills
First Reading of Government Bill
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bill: First Reading.
FRANCHISED TAXI SERVICES BILL
CLERK (in Cantonese): Franchised Taxi Services Bill.
Bill read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.
Second Reading of Government Bills
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bills: Second Reading.
FRANCHISED TAXI SERVICES BILL
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Franchised Taxi Services Bill ("the Bill").
The main purpose of the Bill is to introduce franchised taxi services through establishing a new regulatory system to confer on the Chief Executive in Council the powers to grant and administer such franchises.
In recent years, there have been frequent public criticisms of taxi services, along with a growing demand for personalized and point-to-point public transport services of higher quality with online hailing features. To this end, in the Public Transport Strategy Study completed in June 2017, the Government comprehensively reviewed the demand for personalized and point-to-point transport services, and proposed a two-pronged approach to enhance services. On the one hand, the Government would continue its efforts to improve the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9327 service quality of existing ordinary taxis and their operating environment. On the other, the Government proposes the introduction of franchised taxis to address the demand in society for personalized and point-to-point public transport services of higher quality with online hailing features.
The Government proposes the introduction of 600 franchised taxis under a trial scheme. Three franchises will be granted through open tender, each allowing the operation of 200 franchised taxis to provide franchised taxi services. The franchises, lasting for five years, cannot be transferred or renewed. In this connection, the Bill empowers the Chief Executive in Council to grant the franchises for franchised taxi services to registered companies and to impose franchise terms. The Bill also prescribes that the validity period of a franchise must not exceed five years, and specifies that the total number of franchised taxis used for providing franchised taxi services at any one time must not exceed 600.
In determining the number of franchised taxis, we have carefully considered the uncertainties of the service demand under the trial scheme, concerns of the taxi trade and the impact of franchised taxis on the business development of ordinary taxis. We have also taken into account the fact that a fleet must be of a certain scale in order to serve passengers and maintain operational efficiency. At the same time, it is necessary to maintain healthy competition in the franchised taxi market. Hence, the number of franchises, which is three, is appropriate.
A special feature of franchised taxis is operation through the franchise model. In the franchise terms, the Government can clearly prescribe the service levels and set the service standards in respect of the vehicle types, cabin facilities, online hailing arrangements, safety requirements, training for drivers, customer service, handling of complaints, etc. Such terms include the requirement that at least 50% of the vehicle fleet shall be wheelchair accessible, the minimum vehicle price requirement, limit on vehicle age, provision of mobile hailing applications by the operators, and availability of global positioning system devices, USB charging facilities and free Wi-Fi in the franchised taxis. Moreover, at least one means of electronic payment should be provided.
Under the franchise system, the operators can focus on managing the service quality of their fleets and drivers, while the Government can monitor the operators' performance through the franchise terms. In this regard, the Bill confers on the Commissioner for Transport the power to impose financial 9328 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 penalties on an operator if it fails to comply with the Ordinance, any directions or requirements under the Ordinance, or provides a franchised taxi service otherwise than in conformity with its franchise. A heavier financial penalty would be imposed for repeated non-compliance of the same nature during the franchise period. In serious cases, the Chief Executive in Council may suspend or revoke its franchise with the power conferred by the Bill. This arrangement can help the Government monitor the operators' services, thereby ensuring the quality of franchised taxi services in the long term.
As regards the fares, we propose that franchised taxis adopt a fare structure similar to the existing one of ordinary taxis, comprising flagfall fares, incremental fares after flagfall and other charges. The overall fare level should be about 50% higher than that of ordinary taxis. In determining the appropriate fare level of franchised taxi services, apart from public acceptability, we have taken into account the need to provide adequate and reasonable incentives for operators to maintain high quality services in a sustainable manner despite higher operating costs. Moreover, it is equally important to set a clear fare differential between ordinary taxis and franchised taxis so as to achieve more distinctive market positioning between the two. The Schedule to the Bill contains the fare structure of franchised taxi services. After the passage of the Bill, the Chief Executive in Council will amend the Schedule by order to specify the actual fares.
In November 2015, June 2016 and April 2017, the Government consulted the Legislative Council Panel on Transport on the proposal of introducing franchised taxis. Meanwhile, the Government has all along maintained communication with taxi associations, unions and other stakeholders through various channels to canvass their views. There is also general support in the community for the Government's introduction of franchised taxis.
We have noted the concern of some members of the taxi trade about the impact of franchised taxis on the business of ordinary taxis. They hold that even if franchised taxis are to be introduced, the Government should only do so on a pilot basis by allowing some ordinary taxis to convert their licences into an operating right for franchised taxi services, instead of inviting tenders for new franchises. However, having regard to the principle of open competition, we consider this request tantamount to suggesting a closed market, which is not desirable. As a matter of fact, existing taxi operators may also bid for the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9329 franchises for franchised taxi services. Applications from tenderers with experience in operating ordinary taxis and other public transport services in Hong Kong will be awarded a higher score.
Moreover, we have noted the concern of the trade that the introduction of 600 franchised taxis may aggravate the existing shortage of taxi drivers. In this respect, the 600 franchised taxis to be introduced will only account for about 3% of the present total number of taxis in Hong Kong, which is some 18 000. There are currently about 210 000 taxi driving licence holders in the territory, and it is estimated that about 50 000 of them are in-service taxi drivers. We believe the introduction of franchised taxis will not have any great impact on the existing manpower situation in the taxi trade. In assessing the applications for franchises for franchised taxi services, we will give a higher score to applicants who intend to maintain an employer-employee relationship with their drivers to encourage operators to enhance protection for the labour rights and interests of drivers, thereby bringing drivers a more stable job and income, so as to help attract new entrants to the trade.
Here I must emphasize that the purpose of introducing franchised taxis is not to phase out ordinary taxis. Rather, it is to complement the services of ordinary taxis. The two will have their respective roles and positionings in the public transport system in the future. Ordinary taxis will remain the mainstay of personalized and point-to-point public transport services with the greatest supply and a fare level which is more affordable to the community at large. Franchised taxis, limited in number, will provide members of the public with an additional choice other than ordinary taxis, so as to meet the demand in society for personalized and point-to-point public transport services of higher quality, charging higher fares and having online hailing features.
Apart from what was mentioned just now, the Bill confers on the Chief Executive in Council the power to make regulations in relation to franchised taxi services, including the duties of operators, the conduct of drivers and passengers and the relevant offences and penalties. The Bill also empowers the Secretary for Transport and Housing power to amend such regulations. The relevant regulations will be formulated only after the enactment of the principal Ordinance. Besides, the Bill will make relevant and consequential amendments to other enactments.
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The detailed proposals of the Bill are set out in the Legislative Council Brief issued on 17 April this year. We sincerely hope that the Bill can be supported by the Legislative Council and passed expeditiously so that members of the public can choose to use franchised taxi services earlier.
President, I so submit.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Franchised Taxi Services Bill be read the Second time.
In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the Second Reading debate is adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee.
Resumption of Second Reading Debate on Government Bill
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council now resumes the Second Reading debate on the Appropriation Bill 2019. As Members had already spoken at the last meeting, I will now call upon the Secretaries concerned to speak and then the Financial Secretary to reply.
APPROPRIATION BILL 2019
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 27 February 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary for Food and Health, please speak.
(Mr CHAN Chi-chuen stood up)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, what is your point of order?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9331
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary for Food and Health, please.
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, for starters, I would like to thank Honourable Members for their valuable opinions on important issues concerning people's livelihood such as health care and medical services as well as municipal services.
With respect to public health care services, the Government has, from 2018-2019 onwards, increased the recurrent funding for the Hospital Authority ("HA") progressively on a triennium basis, having regard to population growth rates and demographic changes. In 2019-2020, the Government will provide a recurrent financial provision of $68.8 billion to HA, representing an increase of 8.3% compared with the revised estimate of 2018-2019, with a view to implementing various measures to strengthen manpower and improve services. Here I would like to highlight some of the measures about which people are more concerned.
First of all, on manpower measures, HA will allocate the additional recurrent funding of $700 million to implementing various measures to boost staff morale and retain talents. Among such measures, HA has endorsed the enhancement of the Fixed-rate Honorarium for doctors and a pay rise at 8% for new recruits and serving staff in respect of Patient Care Assistants, Operation Assistants and Executive Assistants with effect from 1 April. HA will also continue to implement the Special Retired and Rehire Scheme for doctors, nurses and allied health staff.
HA will strive to implement other measures to attract and retain talents as expeditiously as possible.
9332 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
In respect of drugs, HA will use the additional funding of $400 million to include more new drugs in the Drug Formulary, and extend the therapeutic applications of the special drugs listed in the Drug Formulary, with a view to providing these drugs for use by patients at standard fees and charges.
To enhance the application of technology, the Government has set aside a non-recurrent funding of $5 billion for HA to acquire advanced equipment and implement computerization projects.
The Government has also earmarked $10 billion for the setting up of a public healthcare stabilization fund so as to prepare for any additional funding which may be required by HA in case of unexpected circumstances in the future.
In view of the tight manpower situation of the health care profession in the future, the Government will continue to increase the number of health care training places. At the same time, with a view to expanding the capacity for professional health care training of University Grants Committee ("UGC")-funded universities, the Government has earmarked about $20 billion for short-, medium- and long-term works projects to upgrade and increase the teaching facilities of the relevant universities.
As an ongoing initiative to monitor the manpower situation of health care professionals, the Government will conduct manpower planning and projections for health care professionals once every three years in step with the triennial planning cycle of UGC. The new round of manpower projection exercise has already commenced, and the results are expected to be published in 2020.
Regarding vaccination, we will extend the School Outreach Vaccination Programme to cover more primary schools, kindergartens and child care centres. At the same time, we will provide school girls in Primary Five and Primary Six with cervical cancer vaccination service in schools commencing from the next academic year.
As regards the development of primary health care, with the aim of promoting the development of primary health care, Hong Kong's first district health centre ("DHC"), located in Kwai Tsing District, is expected to commence operation in the third quarter of this year. We are actively looking for suitable sites to set up such DHCs in other districts in the coming few years.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9333
On Elderly Health Care Vouchers ("EHVs"), an additional $1,000 worth of EHVs will be provided, on a one-off basis, to each eligible elderly person, whereas the accumulation limit of EHVs will also be increased to $8,000, as set out in this year's Budget. Such measures, together with other measures introduced after a review, including the introduction of a cap on the amount of EHVs that can be spent on optometry services at a level of $2,000 every two years, will be implemented as soon as possible after the passage of the Appropriation Bill 2019.
The Government is actively planning for the development of the first Chinese medicine hospital in Hong Kong. We expect to conduct a tender exercise in the second half of the year to identify a non-profit-making organization to operate the hospital, which is targeted to commence operation in phases in late 2024. The Government will increase the recurrent subvention for the Chinese Medicine Centres for Training and Research in the 18 districts in order to provide subsidized outpatient Chinese medicine services. The dedicated Chinese Medicine Development Fund of $500 million, aimed at subsidizing projects to promote the development of Chinese medicine, will soon be launched as well.
On improving environmental hygiene, we will continue to allocate more resources to improving environmental hygiene, including the allocation of an additional funding of $70 million to strengthen cleansing services and the setting up of additional dedicated enforcement teams. The Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD") will actively pursue the application of technologies and has been introducing technologies and equipment for trial use, so as to strengthen its work on pest control and environmental hygiene.
Regarding the refurbishment of public toilets, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the many Members who have supported the proposal of the Government to refurbish about 240 public toilets managed by FEHD in the coming five years, incurring a total expenditure of approximately $600 million. FEHD will explore with the Architectural Services Department the possibility of expediting the progress of the refurbishment works and will take into account factors such as the maintenance condition, utilization rates and public views in determining the priorities of the toilets to be refurbished. In addition, we will improve the repairs and ongoing management of public toilets.
9334 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Lastly, we have just kick-started a three-month public consultation exercise on the proposals to enhance animal welfare. We have also increased in this year the subvention for relevant organizations to promote animal welfare and adoption. We will also continue to step up our publicity, education and enforcement efforts in the future.
I would like to thank all Members once again for their valuable opinions. Thank you, President.
SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank the many Members who have spoken on questions concerning labour and welfare and expressed their views. Regarding the questions and views of certain Members, we have responded to them in our replies to the 1 300-odd written questions asked by Members of the Legislative Council, at the special meetings of the Finance Committee and the latest meetings of the Panel on Welfare Services and Panel on Manpower. Hence, I will only supplement with some salient points.
First, I thank the several Members who have expressed support for the Government's proposal of allocating $200 million to the purchase of premises for welfare facilities. We plan to submit more information to Members at the meeting of the Panel on Welfare Services in June, and present the funding application to the Finance Committee later.
Many Members have expressed concern about the long waiting time for elderly care services presently. To address the existing shortage of services and the rapid increase in demand for services in the future, we must adopt a multi-pronged approach and supporting strategies in the long, medium and short terms. As for the long-term strategy, we will start with planning. At the end of 2018, the relevant planning ratio for the demand for elderly care services was included in the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines. As for the medium-term strategy, we are striving for the inclusion of required welfare facilities in subsidized housing and private development projects, as well as the construction of relevant welfare facilities, including units for the provision of elderly community care and residential care services, through the launch of Phase Two of the Special Scheme on Privately Owned Sites for Welfare Uses for non-governmental organizations. In the short term, in respect of community care services, we will provide an additional 2 000 service quota under the Enhanced Home and Community Care Services and an additional 1 000 vouchers LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9335 for community care services, encourage the provision of day care services by self-financing residential care homes for the elderly which are providing services under the purchase of places arrangement and make arrangements to purchase places to increase day care services. As for residential care services, in the short term, we will endeavour to complete the construction of units providing subsidized services and purchase an additional 1 000 places in each of the next five years.
As for rehabilitation services, the strategy adopted will be broadly similar to that for elderly care services. As the formulation of the Hong Kong Rehabilitation Programme Plan is ongoing, we will update the Panel on Welfare Services of the progress and listen to the views of Members in due course.
As for welfare services, Members are more concerned about the shortage of child care services. Under the Appropriation Bill 2019, relevant resource has been allocated for child care services, including the provision of an additional service quota for Aided Standalone Child Care Centres and improvement to the manning ratio. Similarly, as for the strategy in the medium-to-long term, it is also similar to the development of elderly care services. In the short term, we will submit the $200 million funding application to the Finance Committee, as I mentioned just now, for the purchase of premises for child care centres, striving to increase the service quota in two to three years.
In the scope of labour matters, Members have expressed concern over a wide range of labour issues. I believe, as in the past and in the future, we will continue to exchange views with Honourable Members within and outside the legislature. In speeches made on the Bill this time around, Members are more concerned about the labour shortage and employment support for the elderly and the middle-aged. As for the demand and supply of labour, we will have detailed discussions at the meeting of the Panel on Manpower to be held in May. As for the employment assistance provided to the elderly and the middle-aged, the Labour and Welfare Bureau, the Labour Department, the Employees Retraining Board and the Social Welfare Department will seek to enhance their services and step up the assistance offered. Such services are needed not merely by the elderly and the middle-aged but are also important to many trades facing difficulties in staff recruitment.
With these remarks, President, I implore Honourable Members to support the Bill.
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SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I thank Members for expressing their views during the debate on the Appropriation Bill. I will now give a brief response in respect of transport and housing.
On the transport front, the Government will continue to implement "Smart Mobility" initiatives. Through the application of technology, we will achieve more effective traffic management, relieve traffic congestion and maximize the efficiency of limited road space. These initiatives include:
First, the Electronic Road Pricing Pilot Scheme will be implemented in the Central Core District. The Transport Department ("TD") will consult relevant stakeholders on the pilot scheme in the coming months;
Second, in-vehicle units ("IVUs") will be first issued free-of-charge to registered vehicle owners from the third quarter of 2020 to enable toll payment by free-flow tolling system ("FFTS") at Tseung Kwan O―Lam Tin Tunnel in late 2021. FFTS will be rolled out in phases at other government-tolled tunnels and roads. IVUs will also facilitate the collection of real-time traffic data for traffic management and big data analytics, and support the payment of parking fees by remote means;
Third, with the wide application of IVUs, we will have greater flexibility to adopt "congestion charging" and explore the possibility of determining toll levels on an "efficiency first" basis with a view to enabling efficient people carriers and vehicles that support economic activities to enjoy lower tolls, and introducing differential toll levels at different periods. In this connection, TD will launch a study on "congestion charging" in the middle of this year.
On the other hand, many Members have also mentioned the provision of parking spaces in their speeches. The Government will continue to implement a series of short- and medium-term measures, such as "single site, multiple use" and automated parking systems, to increase the provision of parking spaces. Priority will be accorded to the parking demand of commercial vehicles.
Insofar as railway development is concerned, the Transport and Housing Bureau has invited the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") to submit proposals on Tuen Mun South Extension, Northern Link and Kwu Tung Station, East Kowloon Line, Tung Chung West Extension and Tung Chung East Station, and North Island Line according to the implementation timetable initially LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9337 recommended in the Railway Development Strategy 2014. The Government has evaluated the proposals and requested further information and supplementary details from MTRCL. In evaluating the proposals, we will focus on ensuring that the proposals are practicable and would be most beneficial to community. Railway development may also bring potential housing supply. The Government is reviewing the proposals submitted by MTRCL in this direction.
Having regard to the experience gained in implementing railway projects recently, we will draw reference from the report and recommendations made by the Commission of Inquiry into the Construction Works at and near the Hung Hom Station Extension under the Shatin to Central Link Project when carrying out future railway projects, examine the monitoring approach in new railway projects, explore corresponding measures to enhance project management and works supervision, and strengthen communication between the Government and MTRCL.
In regard to housing, the Government will continue to increase housing supply based on the supply-led and flexible principles under the Long Term Housing Strategy. As announced in December last year, the total housing supply target for the ten-year period from 2019-2020 is 450 000 units, and the public/private split of new housing supply is revised from 60:40 to 70:30, showing the Government's determination in addressing society's strong demand for public housing. Accordingly, the public and private housing supply targets for the aforesaid ten-year period are 315 000 units and 135 000 units respectively.
The most fundamental way to achieve these targets is making every effort to increase land supply. In terms of housing units, 70% of the land newly developed by the Government will be used for public housing. The Government will continue to increase the supply of land for housing in the short, medium and long terms through multi-pronged measures, such as reviewing land use and rezoning, as well as increasing development density.
In order to further increase public housing supply, the Government announced in June last year the re-allocation of nine sites at Kai Tak and Anderson Road Quarry, originally intended for sale in the coming few years, for the use of public housing. These sites are expected to provide 11 000 public housing units. The Government will continue to examine the situation from time to time and, where appropriate, re-allocate sites originally intended for private housing for public housing use.
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As regards subsidized sale flats, we have revised the affordability test under the pricing mechanism for the Home Ownership Scheme ("HOS") by using the affordability of non-owner occupier households as the pricing basis in order to make it more affordable to lower- to middle-income households. In addition, to meet the home ownership needs of households of various income levels, the Starter Homes ("SH") pilot project and the Green Form Subsidised Home Ownership Scheme ("GSH") will also be priced based on the revised HOS pricing mechanism.
The Hong Kong Housing Authority will soon launch about 4 900 HOS flats and introduce two GSH projects in Chai Wan and Tsing Yi respectively at the end of the year, providing a total of about 3 700 flats. In December last year, the Urban Renewal Authority put up 450 flats for pre-sale at a 38% discount on the market rate at Ma Tau Wai Road under an SH pilot project. The Government will draw reference from the experience of the SH pilot project at Ma Tau Wai Road in considering the future development of SH.
Many Members are concerned about the progress of transitional housing projects. In this regard, the task force under the Transport and Housing Bureau will coordinate the efforts of relevant Policy Bureaux and departments to provide appropriate support as required by individual projects proposed by community organizations, such as tendering advice on administrative or statutory procedures and assistance in applying for resources. The Financial Secretary has set aside $2 billion for a subsidy scheme to further support transitional housing projects. We will give serious consideration to the operational experience gained in the projects and the views of the community before drawing up detailed arrangements for seeking funding approval from the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council expeditiously.
With these remarks, President, I implore Members to support the Appropriation Bill 2019. Thank you.
SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to Members of the Legislative Council for making so many valuable suggestions on various land issues.
The Government earlier announced its full acceptance of the recommendations tendered by the Task Force on Land Supply ("Task Force") at the end of last year. We are determined to implement a more robust and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9339 visionary land supply strategy to sustain and significantly increase land supply. In our view, we should take forward all the eight land supply options worthy of priority study and implementation as recommended by the Task Force, and should expedite our efforts by all means.
Quite a number of Members are concerned about the 1 000-hectare reclamation project for the construction of Kau Yi Chau artificial islands. Indeed, the artificial islands are capable of providing sizeable land for comprehensive planning, including the provision of 150 000 to 260 000 residential units, 70% of which (i.e. a maximum of 182 000 units) being public housing. The development of the third Core Business District on the artificial islands can also provide a commercial floor area of about 4 million sq m and around 200 000 diversified employment opportunities which are relatively high-end and high value-added, and the new major road and railways built under the projects will also serve to enhance the overall carrying capacity of the traffic and transport system in Hong Kong, effectively relieving the traffic load particularly in the Northwest New Territories. In short, the Kau Yi Chau artificial islands and the associated road/railway projects can bring enormous social and economic benefits to Hong Kong.
I am grateful to quite a number of Members for expressing unequivocal support for the early delivery of the project, and appreciate the concern of some Members over the fiscal situation. As stressed by the Financial Secretary in the Budget, the Government is capable of meeting the funding needs of the project. We have crudely estimated that the construction cost is $624 billion, in September 2018 prices. The construction cost will be paid over 10 to 15 years, i.e. an average of about $40 billion to $50 billion per year, and it is estimated that in the next few years, government expenditure on public works will have exceeded $100 billion per year. These figures clearly reflect that Hong Kong is capable of delivering this project which will bring us enormous social and economic benefits. In the future, the Government will certainly conduct financial assessments properly and continue to upgrade the standard of public works monitoring in a bid to identify the best and most effective approach to project cost management.
In addition to land formation by reclamation, we have also been pressing ahead with other development projects. Again, here I would like to extend my gratitude to the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council for endorsing the application for funding totalling more than $30 billion in relation to the main 9340 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 works and related projects of the first phase of the Kwu Tung North/Fanling North New Development Areas ("NDAs") last Friday. By the middle of this year, we will also launch a new study on brownfield sites outside NDAs to identify those with potential for high-density development. Moreover, we will also kick-start a study on the first phase of the New Territories North NDA development covering San Tin/Lok Ma Chau in the third quarter of this year, and we plan to seek funding approval from the Legislative Council for the main works of the first phase of the Hung Shui Kiu NDA by the end of this year. We earnestly hope Members can support these projects which are most significant to Hong Kong.
Apart from the aforesaid NDAs and projects relating to brownfield sites, we are now in the process of drawing up specific criteria and implementation details of the Land Sharing Pilot Scheme, with a view to unleashing the development potential of private agricultural lots in the New Territories for the construction of both public and private housing in a faster and better way. The Development Bureau is now working hard on them, and we aim to submit detailed proposals to the Chief Executive for due consideration by the middle of this year.
Apart from the aforesaid measures, the Government will also continue to make good use of lands in areas with infrastructure facilities by, among others, rezoning, appropriately increasing development intensity, proactively supporting the use of government sites by non-government organizations through the $1 billion funding scheme as well as enhancing and expediting the implementation of the "single site, multiple use" model in developments on "Government, Institution or Community" sites.
President, the intensive, strenuous and fruitful efforts previously made by the Task Force have laid a most solid foundation for increasing our land supply in the future. We are certainly aware of the considerable land supply challenges still ahead. In certain aspects, such as the development of NDAs, we are finally able to break new ground together with the community, formally proceeding to the land resumption and construction stages. Looking ahead, we hope to continue to seek Members' support and join hands with all sectors of the community to take forward various short-, medium- and long-term initiatives, thereby leading Hong Kong out of the stalemate of land shortage eventually. Thank you, President.
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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Members for presenting many precious views on innovation and technology ("I&T") in their speeches during the debate. I wish to make a focused response in respect of a few areas.
First of all, to develop a robust I&T ecosystem, efforts should be made in the various aspects of enhancing I&T infrastructure, promoting research and development ("R&D"), pooling talent, supporting enterprises and promoting re-industrialization. A number of Members are concerned about the local I&T infrastructure. In fact, many I&T infrastructure projects, including the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park at the Lok Ma Chau Loop, have been progressing in full swing. Also, Stage 1 of the Science Park Expansion Programme, as well as the Data Technology Hub and the Advanced Manufacturing Centre in Tseung Kwan O Industrial Estate, will be completed one after another between this year and 2022. A sum of $5.5 billion has been earmarked in the Budget for the development of Cyberport 5 to enable it to explore new room of development in the new domain of digital technologies, as well as provide a new platform for young people to pursue I&T opportunities.
Some Members have mentioned strengthening the nurturing of talent, which I absolutely agree with. Pooling talent is an integral part of the promotion of I&T development, for which the Government has taken proactive steps in the three aspects of attracting, nurturing and retaining talent. In the past year, the Government successively introduced the Technology Talent Admission Scheme, the Reindustrialisation and Technology Training Programme and the Postdoctoral Hub Programme. Moreover, on the day of the presentation of the Budget this year, the Government effected immediate enhancements to the Researcher Programme and the Postdoctoral Hub Programme, with a view to expanding the I&T talent pool in Hong Kong. We have also provided additional resources for the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation ("HKSTPC") and Cyberport to improve their incubation programmes so as to step up the support for start-ups. InnoHK, the new innovative technology cluster currently under development, will converge top-notch researchers from all parts of the world to conduct collaborative researches with local outstanding counterparts. Such kind of exchanges and collaboration are conducive to upgrading the standards of local scientific research talent.
To nurture more local young information technology ("IT") talent, the Government will enhance and expand the existing Enriched IT Activities Programme, allocate $500 million to the promotion of the IT Innovation Lab in 9342 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Secondary Schools in the next three school years to assist all publicly-funded secondary schools in Hong Kong in upgrading their facilities and organizing more IT-related extra-curricular activities so as to incentivize local secondary students to pursue development in I&T. We will submit a funding proposal to the Finance Committee this month, with a view to launching this programme within this year.
Some Members have stated that no significant growth has been seen in the percentage share of I&T industries in the Gross Domestic Product ("GDP"). I would like to point out that the current-term Government is determined to promote I&T development and has injected over $100 billion into it thus far. With the support of various I&T policies and initiatives, significant improvements have recently been seen in the local I&T ecosystem. To achieve the goal set by the Chief Executive to double the gross expenditure on local R&D as a percentage of GDP to 1.5% by 2022, we have adopted a multi-pronged approach to, on the one hand, increase public R&D input and, at the same time, implement the provision of enhanced tax deduction for eligible R&D expenditure of enterprises so as to incentivize more enterprises to conduct R&D in Hong Kong. Moreover, the Central Authorities and Guangdong Province have announced that Mainland capital for scientific research can flow across the boundary to Hong Kong. I am confident that such measures are conducive to increasing the gross expenditure on local R&D and the development of the I&T industry as a whole.
As regards promotion of re-industrialization, this month, we will seek the support of the Panel on Commerce and Industry for two funding proposals with a combined sum of $4 billion for the implementation of the Re-industrialisation Funding Scheme and for backing up HKSTPC in building manufacturing facilities required by the dedicated manufacturing sector in industrial estates. The proposals will later be submitted to the Finance Committee for vetting and approval. I would like to thank a number of Members for welcoming the new initiative in their speeches.
Some Members have expressed concern about the progress of smart city development. Last month, the Innovation and Technology Bureau ("ITB") reported to the Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting on the lastest developments of smart city. Among them, substantial progress has been made in terms of opening up data and rendering support to the new government procurement policy. The Smart Government Innovation Lab soon to be set up by the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer ("OGCIO") will assist LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9343 different government departments in expediting the application of IT to improve the quality of public services and foster public-private partnerships. We will endeavour to make efforts in coordination to promote the development of smart city so that people can enjoy the convenience of life brought by I&T advancement.
Furthermore, some Members have mentioned making good use of technology to solve social problems. The Innovation and Technology Bureau has introduced, one after another, the technology voucher, TechConnect (block vote) and the Innovation and Technology Fund for Better Living to promote application of technology by local enterprises, government departments, non-governmental organizations, etc. The E&M InnoPortal of the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department and the OGCIO's Smart Government Innovation Lab will also proactively offer assistance to various government departments in their application of different technologies. This year, we will, for the first time, organize the City Innovation and Technology Grand Challenge to further promote the I&T atmosphere and culture in Hong Kong. We will continue our efforts in this respect so that I&T will mushroom all over the territory to the benefit of society and people.
President, society has been attaching increasingly greater importance to I&T in recent years. The current-term Government, through a series of I&T policies and initiatives, strives to create a thriving and sustainable I&T ecosystem in Hong Kong so as to provide broader space for the local I&T development. The achievements are obvious to all. The new I&T initiatives put forward in the Budget this year will further perfect the local I&T ecosystem. I am confident about the promising prospect of I&T in Hong Kong.
With these remarks, President, I hope Members will pass the 2019 Appropriation Bill.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon the Financial Secretary to reply.
FINANCIAL SECRETARY (in Cantonese): Good morning, President, and Members. I am very grateful to Members for their giving valuable views on the 2019-2020 Budget ("the Budget") at the Legislative Council meeting in mid-April. Five Bureau Directors have given just now concise responses in respect of some key policy areas of concern to Members.
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President, following the presentation of the Budget at the end of February, I have attended various forums, interviews and exchange sessions and met with different political parties and organizations, explaining to the public the propositions of the Budget and its various measures on the one hand, and gauging the views in the community on the other. I wish to thank those members of the public, Members, political parties and organizations who have expressed their views, which are invaluable to the Government's administration and the compilation of budgets in future.
Next, I will give an overview of the latest economic situation globally and locally and an update on some of the measures in the Budget.
The global economic outlook remains challenging. In April, the International Monetary Fund ("IMF") again lowered its growth forecast for the global economy this year by 0.2 percentage points to 3.3%, which was weaker than the growth rate of 3.6% last year. IMF also anticipated that global economic growth will remain sluggish throughout the first half of this year with a rebound expected in the second half. Meanwhile, in the face of an external environment fraught with uncertainties, particularly in respect of trade and the financial markets, we must remain vigilant.
Regarding the Mainland, the Central Government has set an economic growth target of 6% to 6.5% for this year, about the same as IMF's latest estimate of 6.3%. As announced in April, the Gross Domestic Product ("GDP") in the first quarter grew by 6.4% in real terms over a year earlier, meeting the growth target of the Central Government and beating market expectations. This indicates that, despite a challenging external environment, economic growth in the Mainland remains solid as a result of a series of fiscal, monetary and other policy measures. Meanwhile, as the Mainland economy continues to develop in the direction of innovation, domestic demand expansion and high added-value, economic growth has become sounder and more solidly paced. In addition, the State strives to expand and deepen our country's opening up to the outside world, encourage Mainland enterprises to spread their wings in the international arena and spare no effort to promote the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area development and the Belt and Road Initiative. All this is conducive to the development of the Mainland, Hong Kong and other economies in the region.
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In the United States, economic growth in the first quarter of this year beat expectations with an annualized gain of 3.2% quarter on quarter. However, it was driven largely by a temporary surge in inventory. The growth in private consumption and fixed investment both slowed while imports of goods plummeted by 4.4%. Still, their unemployment rate continues to hover at low levels, reflecting persistent strength in the labour market. Meanwhile, core inflation rate stays just below the 2% target set by the Federal Reserve. Economic growth in the United States is expected to slow this year, dragged down by the impacts of trade friction, coupled with the diminishing effect of fiscal stimulus to the economy. IMF last month also adjusted its outlook for growth in the United States this year to 2.3%, lower than last year's pace of 2.9%. In respect of monetary policy, the Federal Reserve reaffirmed its patient stance, holding interest rates steady while signalling an end to the unwinding of its balance sheet at the end of September this year. Markets also expect the Federal Reserve to hold off on rate hikes this year. Yet, the future direction of the interest rates in the United States, which would depend on economic data and other factors, remains uncertain.
In Europe, the Eurozone economy expanded only modestly in the first quarter, with key economies in the region all under downside pressure. Industrial production in Germany began to falter early this year. The Yellow Vest Protests, staged for weekends on end, have taken its toll on the economic performance of France. Italy, meanwhile, is beset by problems in its public finance and sees little growth momentum. The European Central Bank ("ECB") in March revised downwards its outlook for economic growth in the Eurozone this year to 1.1% and decided that its interest rates will remain at their present ultra-low levels at least through the end of this year. ECB also announced a new series of longer-term refinancing operations to provide additional liquidity to banks. As for the United Kingdom, the Brexit turmoil persists. While the European Union has agreed to extend the Brexit deadline until the end of October this year, an orderly exit of the United Kingdom from the European Union is far from certain, as the challenge of reaching a deal acceptable to the various parties remains daunting. Also worthy of our attention are the results of the European Parliament election, to be held in May, and their political and economic implications to Europe.
Asian economies have also been impacted somewhat by the unfavourable external environment. Manufacturing and trade activities in the region have been weak in general so far this year, with export-oriented economies, such as 9346 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Singapore, Korea and Taiwan, registering slower growth in the first quarter. In respect of the developing economies in Asia, while exports have softened substantially since the latter part of last year, economic performance of such countries as Vietnam and Indonesia has remained largely stable. Malaysia and Thailand both registered decent growth in retail sales in the first two months, pointing to continued resilience in domestic demands. Hence, developing economies in Asia are expected to remain as key engines driving global economic growth.
The progress of the trade negotiations between China and the United States continues to be the focus of global attention. As the global economy and financial markets began to feel the impacts of the trade friction between the two countries since the third quarter last year, various aspects of the Hong Kong economy have also been affected. Despite the United States' insistence since the beginning of this year that progress has been made in the trade negotiations, Donald TRUMP, President of the United States, did a dramatic volte-face recently, threatening to impose additional tariffs on Mainland imports of goods again in a matter of days. As I pointed out in the presentation of the Budget in February, given the deep-rooted nature of the differences between the two countries, coupled with the vacillation in attitude displayed by the United State over the past year, the relations between China and the United State will inevitably fluctuate, sending shockwaves across the global economy and financial markets from time to time, with Hong Kong succumbing to the effects as well. It cannot be ruled out that the recent rhetoric of TRUMP is no more than a negotiation tactic. Faced with such an opponent, we must make provision for different scenarios, maintaining reasonable expectations on the one hand, while making precautionary preparations and properly managing the risks on the other.
Real GDP growth in Hong Kong eased further to 0.5% in the first quarter of this year on a year-on-year basis, weighed down by the weaker performance of the global economy and the various external headwinds. The modest year-on-year growth in the first quarter was also partly a result of the high base of comparison in the same quarter of last year, when the economy grew strongly by 4.6%. Total exports of goods continued to be squeezed in the first quarter, falling by 4.2% and similar to the situations in many other Asian economies. Growth in exports of services, at just 1.4%, also continued to decelerate. In respect of domestic demands, private consumption and investment were both subdued amid cautious sentiment prevalent in the Hong Kong economy. Private LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9347 consumption expenditure increased marginally by just 0.1% over a year earlier. That was also partly a result of the high base of comparison in the same quarter of last year, when private consumption expenditure grew strongly by 8.9%.
The labour market remained tight. The unemployment rate hovered at 2.8% in the first quarter, the lowest in more than two decades. Wages and earnings continued to record real gains.
Inflation remained largely stable this year. The underlying inflation rate eased to 2.7% in the first quarter, a slight decrease from the 2.9% recorded in the second half of last year.
All in all, it was challenging for the Hong Kong economy in the first quarter, which was largely consistent with our projection made in the course of formulation of the Budget. Having taken into consideration the possibilities of a weakening global economy in the first half of this year and political and economic conditions that would remain complicated and fluid, we put forward in the Budget various measures for reviving the economy. While local financial markets were in an upswing from January to April this year and the property market has rebounded in recent months, external uncertainties remain. Hence, the Government will remain vigilant, keeping a close watch on the relevant developments and making timely responses.
President, the rapid shift in the global economy last year has aroused concerns about Hong Kong's economic outlook among the public and the business community. Hence, the Budget was prepared in the direction of "supporting enterprises, safeguarding jobs, stabilizing the economy, strengthening livelihoods", with the adoption of forward-looking and strategic financial management principles aimed at nurturing industries, supporting enterprises, enhancing public services, relieving people's burden and investing for the future through the allocation of resources.
Since taking office, the current-term Government has launched a series of measures to improve people's livelihood. In terms of recurrent government expenditure, the estimate for 2019-2020 increased 9% or $36.3 billion year on year, over the revised estimate for the previous financial year. The estimated recurrent expenditure on education, social welfare and health care accounts for about 60% of the sum, exceeding $250 billion in total and an increase of about 7% over the previous financial year. Recurrent expenditure in these three areas 9348 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 recorded a cumulative increase of 45% over the past five years, bearing testimony to the importance attached by the Government to improving people's livelihood. We will continue to allocate resources to meeting people's needs and help those social groups in need.
President, I noted the views expressed by some Members on the accuracy of the Government's projection of its financial position. In presenting the Budget in February, I forecast a surplus of $58.7 billion for 2018-2019. Since the Government announced at the end of March that there was a surplus of $99.8 billion for the first 11 months―as at end of February 2019―of the previous financial year, it might give people the impression that the annual consolidated surplus would exceed the original estimate by a wide margin. In fact, in announcing that figure, the Government also made clear the expenditure in the last month of that financial year is expected to exceed revenue, resulting in a deficit for the month and reducing the cumulative surplus. I believe Members must have noted, the provisional consolidated surplus for the year as announced by the Government at the end of April was $68 billion, which was $9.3 billion higher than the revised estimate. While the difference was mainly due to government expenditure that was $6.1 billion lower than forecast for the revised estimate, the provisional figure saw a big reduction, to the tune of $31.8 billion, from the $99.8 billion-surplus in the first 11 months. As a matter of fact, there was only a difference of $5 billion between total Government expenditure for 2018-2019 and the original estimate. Against an estimated revenue of just under $600 billion, that represents a difference of 0.8% only. As regards government expenditure, total expenditure net of the Caring and Sharing Scheme was smaller than the original estimate by $27 billion only, a mere difference of 4.7% as compared with the original estimated expenditure of $569.6 billion. It can be said that the projection made in the 2018-2019 Budget on the Government financial position was close to the mark.
President, economic development has always been a top priority of the Budget. In this year's Budget, resources will continue to be allocated to building an ecosystem that is conducive to the development of innovation and technology, nurture innovation and technology industries and drive the upgrade and transformation of the overall economic structure. As well as promoting emerging industries, the Government will continue its big push for the development of such traditional priority industries as finance, trading and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9349 logistics, tourism, business and professional services while strengthening the ties between Hong Kong and other economies, with a view to upgrading the competitiveness of Hong Kong.
Livelihood issues, especially those concerning health care services, are one aspect to which the Government pays particular attention. For that reason, additional and targeted resources have been provided in the Budget for the Hospital Authority ("HA") to help boost the morale of frontline medical staff, expedite the upgrade of medical equipment and subsidize the drugs listed on the Drug Formulary in a bid to enhance the quality and efficiency of health care. A sum of $10 billion has also been earmarked for setting up a public healthcare stabilization fund. The Secretary for Food and Health has responded to Members' concern on areas relating to health care services just now. The Government will stay committed to providing support for the operation and development of the public health care system.
In the Budget, I also put forth various one-off relief measures, including tax relief, providing an extra allowance equal to one month of the standard rate Comprehensive Social Security Assistance payments or other allowances, providing to each student in need a grant of $2,500, paying the examination fees for school candidates sitting for the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination and providing additional vouchers under the Elderly Health Care Voucher Scheme, thereby providing relief for people in need through the utilization of resources.
Various measures are also introduced in the Budget to support enterprises in tiding over the changes in the economic and trade environment. These measures include waiving the business registration fees, regularizing the Technology Voucher Programme and doubling the funding ceiling, extending the scope of the Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales and increasing the funding ceiling, and extending the application period of the special concessionary measures under the SME Financing Guarantee Scheme to help enterprises (particularly small and medium ones) face difficulties. We will keep a close watch on the external and local economic situation and introduce appropriate measures when necessary to support enterprises and stabilize the economy.
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Moreover, resources have also been allocated in the Budget for a series of measures aimed at building a livable city and fostering a caring society, which span land supply, smart city development, arts, culture and sports, environmental protection and building the city. Enhancement will also be made of various welfare facilities and services for the public benefit.
President, the Government will make every effort to facilitate the scrutiny of the Appropriation Bill 2019 by the Legislative Council. I implore Members to pass the Appropriation Bill 2019 expeditiously for the early implementation of the various measures set out in the Budget so that the public can be benefited early.
I so submit. Thank you, President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is …
(Mr CHAN Chi-chuen stood up)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, what is your point of order?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I request a headcount.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the Appropriation Bill 2019 be read the Second time. Will those in favour please raise their hands?
(Members raised their hands)
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.
(Members raised their hands)
Mr CHAN Chi-chuen rose to claim a division.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.
Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Prof Joseph LEE, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Paul TSE, Mr Michael TIEN, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr POON Siu-ping, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Jimmy NG, Dr Junius HO, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Dr Pierre CHAN, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU, Mr Vincent CHENG, Mr Tony TSE and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the motion.
Mr James TO, Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Ms Claudia MO, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr LAM Cheuk-ting, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr KWONG Chun-yu, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin voted against the motion.
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THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.
THE PRESIDENT announced that there were 59 Members present, 44 were in favour of the motion and 14 against it. Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, he therefore declared that the motion was passed.
CLERK (in Cantonese): Appropriation Bill 2019.
Council became committee of the whole Council.
Consideration by Committee of the Whole Council
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Council now becomes committee of the whole Council to consider the Appropriation Bill 2019.
In accordance with Rule 68 of the Rules of Procedure, committee will first consider the Schedule, and then the clauses.
Members have been informed that the allocation of time for consideration of the Bill this year is broadly the same as that of last year. Committee will deal with the relevant proceedings on the Bill in three sessions, the details of which are set out in Appendix 1 to the Script.
In the first session, there will be a joint debate on heads with no amendment. We will proceed to vote on whether the sums for the relevant heads stand part of the Schedule immediately following the conclusion of the debate. Committee will then move on to the second session to conduct a joint debate on all the amendments and the relevant heads. We will then vote on the amendments seriatim and deal with questions of the sums standing part of the Bill.
Committee will then move on to the third session to debate the question that clauses 1 and 2 stand part of the Bill. In this session, Members may indicate whether they support the Bill as a whole. After the conclusion of the debate, the relevant questions will be put to vote seriatim until Third Reading is completed.
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All proceedings on the Bill will be completed at the meeting on 16 May. I would like to appeal to Members to make the best use of the meeting time of this Council for the deliberations on the Appropriation Bill.
APPROPRIATION BILL 2019
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): We now proceed to the first session.
I now propose the question to you and that is: That the sums for the following heads stand part of the Schedule.
CLERK (in Cantonese): Heads 23 to 28, 30, 31, 37, 39, 45, 46, 48, 59, 62, 78, 80, 94, 100, 106, 114, 116, 120, 121, 136, 155, 160, 166, 169, 173, 174, 184 and 188.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): In this session, committee will first proceed to a joint debate on the sums for the 33 heads with no amendment read out by the Clerk just now standing part of the Schedule, and then vote on the sums for those heads standing part of the Schedule.
Members have already been informed that this session will take approximately seven hours.
The debate now commences. Does any Member wish to speak?
MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, in this session, we will debate the 33 heads with no amendment.
The expenditure proposed in the Appropriation Bill 2019 totals $515.7 billion, accounting for over 20% of the Gross Domestic Product. This amount of expenditure is astounding. In my following speech I will focus on heads 147, 148 and 152, which are funding items relating to the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau and the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau. These three heads are among the 33 heads with no amendment.
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In fact, as stated by the Financial Secretary just now, the general economic outlook for 2019-2020 is not optimistic, while geopolitics, competitions in trade, and even the tensions between the two nations or those in different regions or places, including Iran, North Korea, South China Sea and even Israeil, will have a bearing on the growth of Hong Kong as an externally-oriented economic and trade city. There are only three ways for Hong Kong to steer around these economic volatilities and even geopolitical tensions, and they include our comparatively abundant reserve, our comparatively effective monitoring regime (especially the monitoring of the financial and monetary system), and our comparatively responsive policies. But the question is: Can we ensure sufficient reactions in our policies, so that the direction and strength of the policies can aptly respond to these rapidly changing political situation? I do not know.
Besides, think about this: It has been an advantage of Hong Kong that under the Basic Law, we can sign bilateral trade or investment protection agreements with other countries and territories. The Commerce and Economic Development Bureau has taken forward a lot of initiatives in the past few years and so, I have no objection to the estimate in relation to the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau under head 152. Let us look at the investment protection agreements first. There are 18 agreements in force, three agreements signed pending commencement, and five other agreements over which negotiation has been concluded. Moreover, in respect of Free Trade Agreements ("FTAs"), there are six FTAs in force, two FTAs signed pending commencement and one under negotiation. The Commerce and Economic Development Bureau has also set up Trade and Economic Offices in various places overseas in recent years, enabling the brand of Hong Kong to earn the recognition of the international community. But the question is that with so many agreements signed, to Hong Kong or to countries or territories with which Hong Kong has signed FTAs, what actual benefits have been brought by these agreements?
Recently, I have had discussions with many different professionals and we all consider that the problem of talents has been very serious for the last couple of years in Hong Kong. There is a lack of suitable talents working in the professional sectors. In my sector, for instance, it is very difficult for accountants' firms to recruit graduates and even if they can, the new recruits will often quit after working for a couple of months. We have signed so many FTAs or investment protection agreements but to countries with which we have signed such agreements, what special arrangements have been made by these LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9355 agreements? Apart from the zero-tariff arrangement adopted by Hong Kong for most of the goods, what benefits can these countries enjoy after signing FTAs with us? In fact, I think the Government should do more to facilitate the flow of talents and particularly in respect of countries with which we have signed FTAs, it is all the more necessary to carry out more work.
As we all know, if we wish to make an application for employing a person from overseas to work in Hong Kong, the Hong Kong Immigration Department will first ask whether we can recruit the same talents in Hong Kong. An employer often has to prove that he cannot recruit such talents in Hong Kong or he has attempted to but in vain before he is allowed to recruit people from outside Hong Kong. But with respect to those countries with which Hong Kong has signed FTAs, I hope the Government can relax the threshold, so that if graduates from these countries have suitable job offers in Hong Kong, the Government can perhaps issue work visas to them, say, for a period of three years, and as they may also wish to sit for licensing examinations for engineers, accountants, lawyers or surveyors, I hope the Government can also relax the thresholds accordingly. In fact, without inflow of talents, the signing of these agreements is useless. Of course, the Government always talks about flows in the Greater Bay Area now but I can assure the Government that flows at the international level are equally important.
Besides, with regard to the provisions for the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau under heads 147 and 148, I have no strong views because the department that is making the most money for Hong Kong or the Treasury under the charge of the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau is the Inland Revenue Department ("IRD"), and the budget estimate for IRD is separately set out under head 76. In the financial and monetary system of Hong Kong, the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau and IRD are very important, and IRD also performs an irreplaceable function. Therefore, I have no question about the relevant provisions in the Appropriation Bill 2019.
Under the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau there is also a department in charge of the procurement and tendering policies. Over the past year or two, I have repeatedly made criticisms in the Public Accounts Committee and questioned whether our policies on procurement and tendering should be premised only on the principle that the lowest bid wins. The approach of the lowest bid wins seems to be not suitable for the more complex large-scale development or high-tech projects. I also heard the Financial Secretary say in the Budget for this financial year that innovation and technology are important 9356 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 indicators and that in certain policies on tendering or procurement, the weighting of technology or innovation will be increased even to the extent of overriding the cost consideration.
Recently I have had discussions with a number of multinational corporations on an issue relating to the supply chain which may not have been taken into consideration by the Financial Secretary in the context of the procurement and tendering policies. Consideration of the supply chain means that in a procurement exercise, we must consider whether the supplier has taken into account such factors as the environment, sustainable development and governance, and I have a very strong feeling that the Government has not given any weight to these considerations. Hong Kong has been criticized more and more by other countries in the international community and we will be asked whether our suppliers have hired child labourers, illegal workers or workers who are subjected to exploitation. Therefore, apart from flexibly adjusting the weightings of technology and innovation in the procurement policy, I hope that in the next budget, the Government can consider incorporating the suppliers' ESG policy into the guidelines for the procurement policy. This will bring Hong Kong on par with international standards.
Moreover, recently some relatively large projects have been put to tender, including the development of the Kai Tak Sports Park. I have seen that the Government has attached great importance to the management of the project, including quality and cost management. But of course, it is only at the stage of signing a contract and we have yet to see its actual implementation. The painful lesson of the Shatin to Central Link is still vivid in our minds and the problems have not yet been resolved. With regard to this large-scale project at Kai Tak, how is it going to be developed? How about its cost management? These are issues that many members of the public are closely watching.
Apart from the more macroscopic policies I mentioned just now, I think the tax policy of Hong Kong must be kept abreast of the times, and it is necessary to introduce more effective tax measures. I have learnt that the Tax Policy Unit will be transferred and placed under the Financial Secretary direct this year, rather than in the ambit of the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury as in the past. I think there is a need to provide additional resources to the Tax Policy Unit but I do not know by which head the resources of this Unit are presently covered. I think it is more appropriate for the funding for the Tax Policy Unit to be dealt with independently under a separate head next year.
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While I heard that the Financial Secretary would take a host of measures to address the trade disputes, economic tensions or financial instability, I still think that the Financial Secretary has completely made no mention of a factor that is currently rocking the economic and monetary system of Hong Kong, that is, the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019.
Chairman, please allow me to say a few words on this respect. A fortnight ago I met with some officials of Singapore, who expressed keen concern about when that Bill will be passed in Hong Kong. They all gave a knowing smile, for they think that with the passage of that Bill in Hong Kong, many companies would then relocate their regional headquarters in Hong Kong to Singapore. This is the reality, not something made up by me.
Yesterday, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission published a report pointing out that the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 would pose significant risks, and I stress significant risks, to the investments of the United States in Hong Kong. I think even if all the external factors of instability mentioned by the Financial Secretary earlier are added together, they still cannot be compared to the uncertainties brought about by this Bill.
Apart from the United States, I have also met with officials of the European Union ("EU"). EU has made an assessment internally but EU's style of work is, of course, different from that of the United States in that EU, after making an internal assessment, will not openly talk about the results of the assessment or make public the report. But as far as I understand it, EU's assessment is actually even sterner than that of the United States, just that EU will not openly say so, or it will only make superficial remarks, that they have some concern but it is still fine. Actually EU has its internal assessment mechanism. So, if the international developments next year are not that promising, coupled with this Bill which terrifies the investors, I can assert that our economic growth is likely to register a negative value.
Many friends have asked me how I am going to vote on the Budget. In fact, this year's Budget is slightly better than the one of last year. Why? Because it has not done one thing and that is, giving away $4,000 which is something I would describe as unbearably tragic.
Chairman, I so submit.
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MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, before I come to my speech proper, I would like to address a point of order, yet I am not requesting a headcount.
Just now, I have listened to the speech of Mr Kenneth LEUNG attentively. I wonder if the Chairman can identify which of the 33 heads with no amendment in this debate session were mentioned in his speech. Indeed, what he has mentioned, namely Invest Hong Kong, the Inland Revenue Department and the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, are heads with amendment covered by the 2nd session. I am puzzled by this. Certainly, the Chairman may have been tolerant of this. Yet, if the Chairman is tolerant towards him, I hope the Chairman will apply the same standard to Members speaking later on.
Chairman, I will now speak for the first time. Among the 33 heads, I will focus on "Head 36―Radio Television Hong Kong". I started my career as a media worker. I used to be an employee of two commercial radio stations respectively, yet I have never worked with Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"), neither the radio station nor the television station. Every year, during this session, I will deliberately bring up RTHK to send a reminder to the Government. Why have I not proposed any amendment about this? As Members all know, amendments to the Budget proposed by Members at the Committee stage are restricted to reduction of expenditure. In my view, the estimate of RTHK should be increased rather than reduced. Yet, we all understand that according to the Rules of Procedure, Members are not allowed to propose any amendment which would increase the expenditure under any head in the Budget of the Government at the Committee stage.
In the past few years, I think the SAR Government has been trying to gradually deplete the resources of RTHK since it has not been compliant. Since the era of TUNG Chee-hwa, programmes of RTHK have been criticized as "weird and eccentric", its work is regarded as eyesores and it has failed to follow the order of the Government. Despite appointing Roy TANG to take over as the Director of Broadcasting, the authorities could not clamp down on RTHK.
Let us return to the figures in the Budget. The provision for RTHK this year can be divided into four parts: radio, public affairs and general television programme, school education television programme and new media. The two major programmes are naturally the Radio Division and the TV Division, and we will look at the programme on the Radio Division first. The estimate for the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9359
Radio Division is $394,600,000, which is 2.4% lower than the revised estimate for the year 2018-2019. As for the TV Division, the estimate for this year is $553,800,000, which is 2% lower than the revised estimate for the previous year (2018-2019). This is ridiculous.
According to the paper on the relevant head provided by the Government, the 2%, $9.5 million, reduction in estimate is mainly due to less operating expenses, which is partly offset by the increase in personal emoluments arising from filling of vacancies and an increase of eight posts. What does this mean? It means that the actual reduction is even greater. Since the newly created posts and filling of vacancies incur salary payment and the reduction amounts to $9.5 million after the offset, it means that the overall reduction in operating expenses is much greater.
Do Members know what RTHK is doing? When RTHK was first established, it was a radio station, and now it is a radio station as well as a television station. RTHK is now running two television channels: Channel 31 and Channel 32. From 1 April onwards, Channel 31 will provide 24-hour broadcasting. As for the radio station, there are seven channels. RTHK is also running the school television programme and new media. Yet, the authorities have cut the provision for RTHK, which is requiring them to make bricks without straws. The Chief Executive, the government official in the highest position, often mocks RTHK of having no audience at all. When the programme host posed questions to her, she did not answer them and made the criticism that no one tuned into RTHK. What kind of bare-faced attitude is this! Yet, it is no surprise, for she has once scorned the programmes of RTHK, criticizing them as similar to a slide show.
Truly, certain programmes of the TV Division of RTHK are unimaginable. Some programmes are like the broadcast of images from closed-circuit television. This is called the "Slow TV", where scenes of the city, chase among cats and dogs and chickens pecking rice, and so on, are broadcast. Certainly, some people may consider these images therapeutic. Yet, why would this happen? Because funding is inadequate. The authorities are expecting good performance without providing the required resources, just like expecting a horse to run fast without letting it graze.
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It is said in the relevant paper that much will be achieved and many things will be done. On the one hand, RTHK has to produce special programmes on commemorating the 70th Anniversary of the Founding of the People's Republic of China, and on the other, it has to produce weighty programmes to commemorate 90 Years of Broadcasting in Hong Kong. Yet, the provision provided is not "weighty". Despite the increase in workload from that of a radio station to that of a radio station plus a television station and the new media, there is no increase in provision. In contrast, Carrie LAM requires the creation of an additional post dedicated to the management of her Facebook account. Hence, I must air some fair comments for RTHK.
In fact, the quality of the television programmes of RTHK is obvious to all. According to the TV Programme Appreciation Survey, 10 out of the top 20 programmes on the list are productions of RTHK. Though many comments in the Director of Audit's Report are targeted at RTHK, I will not blame the Audit Commission, as it applies the value for money criterion in assessing the performance of RTHK. RTHK's performance is assessed in such aspects as investment, expenditure, production and productivity, production as if it is a factory. The Audit Commission also assesses RTHK's production. Yet, the Audit Commission looks at the figures and viewership, whereas the appreciation index of these progrommes may not be regarded as a significant indicator in the assessment.
I hope that the assessment is based on quality. Hence, it should be left to the public to comment whether or not the programmes worth the money spent. Surely, I admire the production crew working in RTHK, for they can spend a year on the production of a single programme or spend considerable time on research before they start producing a programme. Nowadays, such a practice is a luxury to certain people, particularly those working in commercial radio stations or television stations. They may think that the staff members of RTHK are having an easy time and little stress at work.
However, the effectiveness of RTHK should not be considered merely in the light of the production time, man-hours and the expenditure incurred. I will cite some examples to illustrate my point. Last year, RTHK sent staff to New York to examine a large volume of papers concerning Patrick HO. This financial year …
(Ms Claudia MO stood up)
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, what is your point?
MS CLAUDIA MO (in Cantonese): I have a query. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen has spoken for more than seven minutes, why is he still shown as a Member waiting to speak on the screen? Has the Secretary General fallen asleep?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please continue.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Yes. Thank you, Chairman. In addition to the programme on Patrick HO which requires in-depth interviews, investigation and studies, RTHK has also sent staff to follow LAM Wing-kee when he left Hong Kong and conduct an exclusive interview on his latest condition during this financial year. When the programme was broadcast, a large number of people of Hong Kong voiced strong echoes. In the case of a commercial television station, it may not have or may not be willing to expend such manpower and resources. It may not send a reporter to follow LAM Wing-kee to Taiwan. It may not send staff to the United States to follow the case of Patrick HO, to examine a large volume of documents, to make painstaking efforts to invest the case, to contact the highest echelon of the United Nations and to find out the association with the Belt and Road Initiative. If RTHK does not produce these programmes, I am afraid none of the several commercial television stations in Hong Kong will. Certainly, all television stations, radio stations and media organizations are subject to pressure in business operation. At present, we are concerned about the media being turned red and dictated by "Red Capital", and RTHK is the last fortress. In respect of the provision for the financial year, the management can refrain from criticizing the programmes of RTHK, yet it reduces its provision and resources to make it increasingly difficult for RTHK to produce quality programmes on probing reports which I have just mentioned. Hence, I hope the Government will increase the provision for RTHK to allow it to recruit more veteran journalists.
The viewership of Channel 32 of RTHK is large, particularly programmes on live broadcast of meetings of the Legislative Council. The Channel will also broadcast recorded meetings of Legislative Council in the evening. Members may tune into it. Members who are enthusiastic in making speeches will be greeted by people on the streets with the remark "I often see you", for these 9362 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 people often watch programmes on Channel 32. I have to sing praises of Channel 32. The day before yesterday, when the meeting of the Bills Committee on Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 was held in Conference Room 1 to conduct the election of Chairman, the meeting was not broadcast by the Legislative Council, yet it was broadcast on Channel 32. The effort of RTHK should be acknowledged, should it not? Yesterday, when I scolded the Secretary General, TVB immediately stopped its filming, yet the camera man of RTHK kept chasing us to the lift to do the filming. Staff members of RTHK are truly responsible.
It is the hallmark of RTHK that it will not bend to advertisers. It does not fear offending large consortia or some so-called Red Capital, nor is it afraid of offending the Government. Despite the dislike of the Government of the programmes of RTHK, RTHK continues to produce these programmes. Hence, I think the people of Hong Kong should cherish RTHK. The situation today may be somehow different from that in the past, yet RTHK is still exerting its level best to deliver impartial, neutral and responsible reports to the people of Hong Kong. These will enhance the soft power of Hong Kong. I dare not say RTHK will attain achievements comparable to that of BBC, as there is no way to make bricks without straw. Yet, Carrie LAM should not reduce the provision for RTHK on the one hand and mock RTHK's production on the other.
I would also like to talk about expenses on education television. I think the responsibility for producing programmes of education television should not be borne by RTHK but the Education Bureau. Actually, I do not mind deleting programme (3) school education television programme from RTHK, whereas the Education Bureau may outsource the production of these programmes to the community and distribute them to schools for viewing. By doing so, the obligation to comply with the value for money criterion will not be imposed on RTHK under which RTHK will be held accountable for the viewership of its programmes. In fact, certain production work may be released and taken up by the market, and I think it is worthy of consideration.
Even if political consideration is excluded, the Government still dislikes using the services of RTHK. I know the reason for that. As certain government officials have told me, it is because the production cost of RTHK is more expensive. For the production of a same project, the charge levied by RTHK will be much higher than that levied by private production companies in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9363 the market. This is the fact. RTHK is less competitive from this perspective. As I mentioned earlier, RTHK's performance is assessed from the value for money perspective.
Regarding the new Broadcasting House for RTHK, in the programme under the head of RTHK, the Government repeats the following remark every year: "continue to plan for the construction of the new Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O in relation to television services". Indeed, this remark is presented every year. At first, I thought that the construction of the new Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O had been nipped in the bud, and I do not know whether the selected site will still be in Tseung Kwan O in future. I will not talk about the difficult situation faced by RTHK on rainy days, where buckets have to be placed in studios to collect water dripping from the ceiling.
The Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, counting on the negation of the provision application for the construction of the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O by the Public Works Subcommittee back then, that is, the Legislative Council of the previous term, has done nothing to promote this project in the next couple of years. Given the large number of Members from the pro-government camp in the legislature, the authorities may reach a consensus with them even the proposal had been negatived by the Public Works Subcommittee, and such a proposal will be passed if it is submitted again. Have the authorities done so? Now, the authorities simply say that: "since the Legislative Council does not support the proposal, we can do nothing about it". Have the authorities ever tried to lobby Members? What happened after that? Later, the authorities change its strategy to adopt the joint-user office building approach, where the building at Tseung Kwan O will not be dedicated to RTHK. In other words, RTHK has to share the new building with other government departments. Yet, the authorities say that no government department is willing to share the building with RTHK, so the construction of the new building has been delayed for years. The above remark is still presented in the Budget this year.
If the authorities are determined to construct the building, I do not think the various departments would have the autonomy to act according to their will, stating that they do not want to share the building with RTHK, hence making the construction of the Broadcasting House impossible. The authorities can simply tell the departments concerned that "they can decide whether or not to accept the arrangement, yet if they do not accept it, the department will not be offered other 9364 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 relocation arrangement in the foreseeable future". The authorities may even resubmit the proposal for the new Broadcasting House for RTHK which was submitted to the Legislative Council in the previous term. Now, Members often give their support to works projects, for they consider these projects will increase employment opportunities. Members have now seen the actual needs of RTHK, as it has become a television station. How is the TV Division of RTHK running its operation now? According to our experience, it is running a television station in a radio station mode. Several chairs are placed in a studio for the host and guests to do some chatting. These talk shows are broadcast every evening, so it is actually running in the mode of a radio station. This approach is "convenient, neat and good" and since post-production work is not required, it saves costs. I am not saying that these programmes are not good. Indeed, they are quite good, with discussions covering philosophy, movies and culture, and so on. Yet, no one can make bricks without straw, and that is exactly the situation right now. Against this background, no matter how hard they try, this is all they can do.
Hence, in my view, under head 160, the provision allocated to RTHK by the Government is too little. It is really ridiculous that the estimate is 2.4% lower than that of the previous financial year. Details speak volumes about the big picture. Hence, for the reasons mentioned, I consider that the Budget fails to cater for the needs of various departments.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): In my speech in this session, first, I wish to …
(Mr Gary FAN stood up)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN, what is your point of order?
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I request a headcount.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
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(While the summoning bell was ringing, THE CHAIRMAN'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): A quorum is now present in the Chamber. Meeting will now continue. Mr WU Chi-wai, please speak.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): In this session, first, I wish to express some views on "Head 62―Housing Department", on which no Member has proposed any amendment. However, I cannot see any public officer present to listen to our views on this part.
In fact, the subject matter of the Housing Department ("HD") is very large in scope and if Members see the head "Housing Department", they may think that it is about the very large organization called HD under the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") but if they look more closely, they will find that it is actually only about something minor therein, for example, the Independent Checking Unit ("ICU") under HD and secretarial support for the Appeal Panel (Housing) ("the Panel"). In my opinion, the fact that an item can be turned into the programme of a department gives one the impression of a very bloated organization. If Members look at the details of HD's work under this heading, it mainly involves providing assistance in two areas. The first is to check independently whether or not the plans provided by HD comply with the requirements of the Buildings Department ("BD") when matters related to the Buildings Ordinance in public rental housing estates are involved. In other words, in the past, HD could decide on its own if its buildings are compliant through vesting orders―that is, the power exercised by HD itself―but now, it is necessary to carry out the relevant work through ICU.
The apparent reason is to make this task independent of HD, so that there can be seemingly objective standards when carrying out checking but in fact, you can also regard this as a superfluous arrangement because the laws on which such work is founded are also the provisions found in the Buildings Ordinance (Cap. 123). In view of this, should we not seriously consider placing the ICU 9366 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 that HD seeks to set up back into BD, so that a department can rightly be responsible for the overall management of all buildings throughout Hong Kong, be they public or private ones, and various parties can follow a set of standardized and uniform criteria? What I mean is to make the same department implement the same set of laws, rather than allowing two departments to implement the same set of laws, the only difference being whether they are applied to subsidized sale flats or private housing estates.
Second, why do I think that the work of ICU can be handed back to BD? An example can be seen in the task of squatter control, which was initially the responsibility of HD back in those years. Subsequently, as the workload became smaller and due to the fact that the nature of the task is to a great extent more related to land management, it was handed over to the Lands Department, so that corresponding work arrangements could be made and the department in charge of land management could deal with squatter control together, rather than making two different departments manage similar problems. For this reason, I believe that since the great majority of the duties performed by ICU, such as mandatory window inspection, mandatory building inspection, etc., and the laws invoked by it are the same as those of BD, it would actually be more desirable to group them together under the portfolio of one department. I also hope that the Government will look at this matter from this perspective to see if such superfluity exists among or within departments and needs to be dealt with properly.
In addition, the head involving HD also covers the services provided by the Appeal Secretariat. The Appeal Secretariat is established by HA according to the Housing Ordinance ("HO"), so in theory, the Panel is a product of HO and all along, the Secretariat under HA has provided assistance in dealing with the relevant appeal cases and of course, it is also HD that provides assistance in undertaking the relevant tasks. However, here, the relevant tasks under the charge of HD are taken from HA and I find such a work arrangement rather strange. Why is it necessary to put an unnecessary programme into the Budget? Instead, the programme that we need to see most of all is one related to HA but perhaps we can have a discussion about it only when we reach the items under the Transport and Housing Bureau but it is not included in the Budget either, nor is there any mechanism that allows a detailed discussion on HA's budget or policies in this process. These are my comments on HD.
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In addition, what I wish to deal with is "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". Of course, I can see it is pointed out clearly in the relevant programme that the expenditure on the Caring and Sharing Scheme does not fall under this programme because the Caring and Sharing Scheme for issuing $4,000 is dealt with independently. However, the fact is that the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency is responsible for undertaking the relevant administrative work and in the event that the relevant administrative work is separated from it, there is apparently no appropriate government department against which we can examine the absurdity of the relevant arrangement.
In fact, the granting of $4,000 under the Caring and Sharing Scheme was a proposal in the last Budget but the Government launched the registration exercise for it only at the beginning of this year. As far as we know, the relevant registration exercise just ended on 30 April. Since the end of the registration exercise, so far, the amount of money issued is only very small and perhaps only 70 000 to 80 000 cases have been handled. It is expected that the processing of all cases will be completed only at the end of this year. Given such a large government department and the large amount of resources for dealing with the Caring and Sharing Scheme, such a snail's pace in processing applications and such long delays in issuing the funds have cast serious doubts about the administrative efficiency of the whole Government.
Of course, I have also said on another occasion that the whole Caring and Sharing Scheme introduced by the Government is intended for members of the public who could not, as a matter of fairness, be benefited by the last Budget, so that they can share the fruits of economic achievements. Since commitments in the form of set-up and manpower resources have been made, why not make use of the existing structure and mechanism to issue additional funds under the Caring and Sharing Scheme in this year's Budget, so that the "N have-nots" or several million wage earners who can only get very small amounts of tax reduction or even do not have to pay any tax at all will not be left out in sharing the fruits of economic achievements? Even if they cannot enjoy the fruits of economic achievements in other ways, we can still find ways to share the fiscal surplus amounting to tens of billions of dollars with them. Moreover, it is expected that the latest figure of fiscal surplus will be $20 billion to $30 billion higher than that published in the Budget. In view of this, after listening to all the views from Members, should the Financial Secretary not seriously consider using this existing software and hardware of the Working Family and Student Financial 9368 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Assistance Agency to release resources again under the Caring and Sharing Scheme to benefit the public? Doing so can also raise the marginal effect of the administrative cost in setting up the software and hardware for launching the Caring and Sharing Scheme. For this reason, I want very much to raise this part in this Session.
I also noticed the criticism levelled by Mr Kenneth LEUNG at the Budget when he spoke just now. One of the main points is what direction economic development should take. The Financial Secretary pointed out in his speech that the downside risk of Hong Kong economy is most critical and he also talked about what Hong Kong should do in the trade war between China and the United States. Do we only have to leverage the Greater Bay Area to maintain the status quo, or is it necessary to develop economic channels more extensively, so as to improve the conditions for Hong Kong's economic development? I will elaborate on this core subject matter in the discussion on the Greater Bay Area when I talk about the portfolio of the Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs.
However, I wish to highlight one point in this Session, that is, Hong Kong is a small but crowded place that lacks natural resources, so the only thing it can rely on is its treasure trove of talents and the advantages of its institutions. These advantages have been spelt out in the Outline Development Plan for the Greater Bay Area. The basis on which Hong Kong can make further contribution to the country is our institutional advantages. These advantages do not consist only of a civil service that is honest in performing its official duties, something that we have all along sung praises of, but more importantly, our society respects the law and not only can this rule of law protect our personal freedom, it also enables the whole legal system to provide a transparent setting free of concern about protection of investments. However, the arrangements under the Amendment Bill concerning the surrender of fugitive offenders have precisely changed this structure and setting.
Irrespective of the explanations given by the Government, foreign business associations, investors and the business community in Hong Kong have all expressed concerns about the arrangements for the surrender of fugitive offenders in various ways. I remember that when Secretary John LEE responded to queries from journalists, he also said that without the arrangements for the surrender of fugitive offenders, if any place requested him to hand over someone, so long as no comprehensive arrangements for the surrender of fugitive offenders LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9369 are in place, he could come forth to say that he does not approve of it and that no transfer would be made. However, if arrangements for the surrender of fugitive offenders are in place, even though he can say "no" to the whole world―because in the dealings throughout the world, there is a rule called "no transfer of nationals"―in Hong Kong, under "one country", if the Central Authorities want someone, there is no basis or means to turn down the request, so that was the response of Secretary John LEE yesterday …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, I remind you that the Committee is now having a debate on the 33 heads without amendments in the Appropriation Bill 2019. Please come back to the question of the debate …
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): I understand. However, Deputy Chairman, the point being raised by me is very important …
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please point out how your comments are related to the 33 heads.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Because it is related to the core interests of Hong Kong society.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please come back to the question of the debate.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): I understand it but on matters related to Hong Kong's core interests, I wish to make use of all occasions available to express this view.
Just now, before the Deputy Chairman took the Chair, Mr Andrew LEUNG had also permitted Mr Kenneth LEUNG to spend 15 minutes talking about matters not related to this Session, so I hope you can continue to allow such flexibility. In fact, we are using our own speaking time to deal with this issue.
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What I wish to point out is that in Hong Kong, if our core interests under "one country, two systems" are compromised, what will be jeopardized is not just our personal freedoms, rather, the fundamentals of Hong Kong's economic development will also be at stake, and it will even become questionable whether or not we can continue to fulfil the responsibilities and mission of making contribution to the country, since without our institutional advantages, any talk about anything is useless.
However, on this core subject matter, be it the SAR Government, the Chief Executive or Honourable colleagues of the pro-establishment camp, they are not facing the impact of this change to the economic environment squarely. In that event, the exercise involving the Budget and the potential benefits of the Budget to Hong Kong society will be seriously affected. Therefore, I hope very much that the SAR Government can consider seriously what fundamental benefits to Hong Kong society can be derived from passing the Amendment Bill on the surrender of fugitive offenders. If no benefit can be derived, why not withdraw the Bill? Moreover, the authorities in Taiwan have made it clear that even if it is passed, the relevant application will not be processed (The buzzer sounded) … so how can the Government attain its goal?
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, please stop talking.
I remind Members that committee is having a debate on the 33 heads without amendment in the Appropriation Bill 2019. Members should not discuss the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 in detail here but should focus on the question under debate.
MS CLAUDIA MO: I think you are being ridiculous. Of course, the extradition Bill, not yet a law, has a lot to do with our economic prospects. Do you not read the news this morning about how the United States-China Economic and Security Review Commission issued that report saying that this controversy in Hong Kong could be upgraded to United States' national security and they might just pull out of Hong Kong commercially, to start with. Do you have any brains? Seriously, how dare you negate what Andrew LEUNG has allowed previously, earlier this morning? Preposterous, you are. It is such a pity too that you are sitting there, only you, not the President proper, and the Secretary LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9371
General is not there, only his deputy. Because I was going to say it is against, please note the word "against", my personal doctrines that I should be heaping praises on a certain government department but I am picking on, positively, Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"). This is to follow up what Raymond CHAN has said about RTHK. Because RTHK must be an exception, and I am working against my personal political doctrines vis-à-vis this Government that I am heaping praises on RTHK.
To start with, as my Honourable friend, Raymond CHAN, was reminding everyone, there was a live broadcast on the first floor of this Legislative Complex yesterday on our Secretary General, Kenneth CHEN's response to the press over this extradition Bill business and I was watching RTHK live because this is one of the newest functions of RTHK. And when my Honourable friend, Raymond CHAN, i.e. "Slow Beat", rushed up at the end of his very ridiculous speech, of course, rushed up to Kenneth CHEN, and asked him all the reasonable and intelligent questions, he failed to reply. But then, the footage was going on and on until the two disappeared from the screen. What about all the other commercial entities? Most of them, if not all of them, have stopped the footage the moment this Kenneth CHEN stopped talking and turned his back on his audience. This is about RTHK.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms MO, please point out the relevance of your remarks to the 33 heads with no amendment in the Bill.
MS CLAUDIA MO: Yes, in case you cannot read, this is about RTHK. It is head 160. Can you not read? What are you doing up there, staring at pieces of paper? Head 160. Check it.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms MO, please focus on discussing the 33 heads with no amendment. Please continue with your speech.
MS CLAUDIA MO: I am heaping praises on RTHK because I think this government department must get more resources, if possible. The Government has been giving it a fund of around $1 billion per year. It is simply not enough in this new media age. I am sure you did not know what I was talking about for the last four minutes plus. I am saying, I am telling you, how wonderful RTHK 9372 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 is, OK? How responsible and answerable and brilliant this particular government entity is. Why RTHK? Because according to the Chinese Communist Party, ideology control is so important. We must teach our people how to think and how to act. George ORWELL's 1984, Ms LEE, have you ever heard of it? Have you ever read it? Ideology control. Now when it comes to commercial entities, they are doing business and they need to look after their advertising revenue but RTHK is a public, supposedly at least, broadcaster. And so, as a public property, allegedly at least I would say, a public broadcaster should be free of commercial and political interferences. Commercial interferences? No, RTHK does not have commercials … it does not accept advertisements. So, that should be fine because it runs on public money, on Hong Kong taxpayers' money. You understand that, of course, right? I hope this message is sinking into your brain.
When it comes to political interference, there are so many examples, there are so many incidents I can tell you how RTHK has come under political threat, mainly, mostly, basically, from this Government that government officials who are in awe of themselves, could just march into RTHK and tell them to do certain things. And you know what? Every time RTHK does anything that is disliked by this Administration, this regime, or not just this Carrie LAM regime, including C Y LEUNG's and C H TUNG's eras as well, it is always the same. Every time RTHK tells the truth and they would say, "Oh, you are goading the Government. You are provoking the Government. You really must not bite the hand that feeds you." What is the hand? The hand is the Hong Kong public, the Hong Kong taxpayers, not this Government. The Government is not a person, the Government is just a thing, a means. When I challenged government officials, why they are not giving just a bit more funds to RTHK, they would say, "We are not giving less really. We are keeping it up really." RTHK needs money to cope with this new age, as I was talking about this new media, like the live coverage of the Legislative Council, Kenneth CHEN, and his speech in front of the barrage of microphones yesterday. It is just such a well done job.
And following our bookseller Mr LAM Wing-kee to Taiwan. Now, that is really an excellent move. I did not know beforehand, but you tell me which commercial entity could have done it. Some people, some members of the local press would say, "We have tried very hard to follow the bookseller Mr LAM Wing-kee, knowing that he might be leaving Hong Kong soon, during that period of time. But Mr LAM sort of evaded us, so we could not get hold of him."
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Let me tell you what actually happened. An RTHK crew followed Mr LAM all over the place. He just could not get rid of them, the crew, and he was actually touched by the sincerity, the compassion the RTHK crew showed him. Mr LAM told me personally, saying that, "Perhaps, yes, I would want my story be recorded, my last days in Hong Kong be recorded by a trustworthy label called RTHK." Do you understand? Do you know what I am trying to get at?
Look at that blank face. I suppose you do not, but never mind. Not too long ago, we have this Reporters Without Border group, an international group based in Paris, saying that our press freedom index has been going down and down and down. It is against my journalistic belief that we cannot do any better. We should be able to do better. It is just that the commercial brands are commercial. They are doing business, but RTHK is funded by public money and it should be responsible to the people, for the people. It has been doing a fairly good job, and it is being dried up, probably, if not actually this attempt is to have it discarded―nobody watches RTHK, nobody listens to RTHK, according to Carrie LAM.
How about that? So, we wish RTHK the best and we wish this government department―it is such a dilemma, it is such an oxymoron that on the one hand, RTHK is a government department, but on the other, it is supposed to be a public broadcaster. The two are completely, almost, the opposite. This is just not right. It is almost like a Catch-22 situation but this is Hong Kong, anything goes in Hong Kong these days. So, we wish RTHK the best of course, but we also warn the Hong Kong Government that if you think you can help your Beijing boss by trying to play down RTHK or trying to somehow dump it down this RTHK scenario, this RTHK operation, you can forget about it.
Ladies and gentlemen, I honestly think if we stand firm and tough and resilient―Hongkongers, we must fight for RTHK which could be the very last bastion of Hong Kong's free press.
Thank you.
MR DENNIS KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I implore you not to interrupt Members' speeches arbitrarily. Obviously, head 160 which Ms Claudia MO talked about just now is directly related to the question under our present debate. Therefore, before you interrupt a Member's speech, would you please listen carefully and think carefully.
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Deputy Chairman, today I will mainly discuss three heads in my speech, the numbers of which are respectively 80, 94 and 160. Head 80 is the Judiciary. The reason why I wish to talk about the Judiciary is, to begin with, we have seen continuous increases in the resources for the Judiciary. We are pleased to see this. We have also seen that the Special Administrative Region Government is by no means tight-fisted in allocating resources to the Judiciary. Every year, we in the legal sector would ask the Judiciary whether its resources are sufficient because in recent years, we have noticed a serious shortage of manpower in the Judiciary. Why is there a manpower shortage? There are certainly many reasons. For example, Judges cannot be appointed casually, and it is not easy to recruit them either. We understand the personnel situation in the legal sector. In particular, senior counsels or solicitors in private practice with the relevant experience, capable of assuming the positions in the Judiciary and willing to join and serve the Judiciary have indeed become a rarity.
The Judiciary has also made efforts in studying this issue. For example, over the past two years, we have seen that the salaries for judicial officers have been increasing, and the increase is substantial. Certainly, salary is one of the key factors in staff recruitment. However, we appeal once again that actually, in the recruitment of Judges, apart from the need to continue to raise the salary level, other benefits and remuneration packages, as well as whether the Judges can receive appropriate support―I am not talking about simple secretarial support, rather, in many cases, the Judges actually need support in terms of legal research, background search, filing work, etc. To a certain extent, there is the need for someone having received legal training to assist the Judges in doing the preparatory work, especially nowadays when civil cases, judicial reviews and criminal cases have all become increasingly complicated, involving an increasing number of documents. For this reason, Judges also need support.
Hence, here I am making this appeal. The Judiciary should expand the scheme which engages young people to join the Judiciary as Judicial Assistants, i.e. the Judicial Assistants Scheme. Apart from allowing young people having received professional legal training to join the Judiciary and help Judges handle the support work mentioned by me just now, this Scheme can in fact offer valuable experience to both the Judges in the Judiciary and young barristers. We hope that when manpower assisting the Judges has increased, the latter can handle cases more promptly and efficiently. Meanwhile, if young barristers can LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9375 personally join the Judiciary and learn from the most outstanding Judges how to handle cases and examine issues in law, it will benefit the entire legal sector. For this reason, here I appeal to the Judiciary to consider expanding this Scheme.
Besides, we in the legal sector often mention that the time taken for the delivery of judgments has grown increasingly long. Certainly, we see that the schedule for court hearings may meet the target on the surface, but in actual operation, it does not work. If we ask those solicitors or barristers who have taken up court cases about the relevant situation, every one of them would tell us that the time taken for a case to be heard has become increasingly long. Hence, in terms of the time taken from court hearings to the delivery of judgments, it is regrettable that many Judges were in fact below par and not up to the mark. Many judgments took more than three months or even longer to hand down. This has a great impact on the rule of law in Hong Kong. It is also the reason why many people do not wish to initiate lawsuits in Hong Kong. Although we see continuous increases in the resources for the Judiciary, it is still below par in this aspect. We hope the Judiciary can carry on with its hard work and maintain its standard.
The second head I wish to talk about is head 94, i.e. the Legal Aid Department ("LAD"). We are pleased to see the substantial increase in the recurrent expenditure of LAD this year. This is in fact necessary because LAD has a large number of problems which have accumulated for years. When I enquired about the relevant situation with the Director of Legal Aid, he told me it is because of the manpower problem. To increase the manpower of LAD, its recurrent expenditure must be increased. We see that the current-term Government is willing to undertake to increase the recurrent expenditure of LAD so that it can work more efficiently and have more resources to recruit manpower. This is a good thing.
However, I also wish to remind the Government that in the Policy Address this year, the Chief Executive mentioned her wish to extensively expand the coverage of legal aid to resolve the grave problem of many Hongkongers, especially the middle class, being unable to get legal aid. If the middle class cannot receive legal aid, it will give rise to two extremes. The grass roots can obtain legal aid in lawsuits, while the rich can also go to court, but the middle class―they may have a pretty good income, but their assets cannot be regarded as abundant―facing a lawsuit which may cost millions of dollars, will actually 9376 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 exhaust all of their assets. This time we see that the Government has allocated additional resources to LAD, but it fell short of mentioning how to increase or expand the legal aid services per se. Neither did the Budget mention how the coverage of legal aid will be expanded to benefit more people. For this reason, I still wish to urge the Government to make a greater effort in the reform of the services of LAD. We have already conducted a number of discussions in the Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services. We have also met with Chief Secretary for Administration Matthew CHEUNG to discuss the reform of legal aid services. But we have yet to hear any progress in the work led by Chief Secretary Matthew CHEUNG. We expect the Government to make a positive response to the views raised by us on the expansion of the coverage and services of legal aid.
Lastly, I wish to talk about head 160, i.e. Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"). Just now several Members also touched on this issue. As we all know, RTHK has been hamstrung by a serious shortage of resources over the years. If Members or officials present in the Chamber have been to RTHK for interviews, they would know that its building is unbearably old. The Television Division of RTHK is even dilapidated. The public broadcaster of Hong Kong, a world city, cannot possibly be so dilapidated. If the Secretary has visited the headquarters of BBC (i.e. British Broadcasting Corporation) in London or CBC (i.e. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) in Canada, he would find it unimaginable that the headquarters of RTHK can be so dilapidated.
Every time I went into the on-air studio to attend its programme, except for the morning programme "Talkabout" which is better, I almost felt I had returned to the 1970s. The microphones, buttons, fixture and everything in the on-air studio made me feel like I had gone back to the 1970s. Why would it be so? Because RTHK never has sufficient resources. It even lacks resources for renovation. One of the problems is that this public broadcaster has only one on-air studio on Hong Kong Island, situated in the Queensway Government Offices. If Members have been there, they must have seen that it is merely located at a corner with only two rooms. Many live programmes cannot be conducted there. It is rather regrettable.
We do not understand why the Government has been reluctant to allocate more resources to RTHK over the years. Now it is even going to reduce its resources. As such, how can RTHK maintain the services it should provide or LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9377 better the programmes which Hongkongers have watched for years? A more ridiculous point is that recently, to my surprise, I heard Mrs Regina IP, an Executive Council Member, say that RTHK had better stop reporting news and suggest that it closes its news department. I do not know whether Mrs Regina IP actually made a slip of the tongue or what was wrong with her. How can a Legislative Council Member, a seasoned politician having engaged in politics for years, possibly openly suggest that RTHK should stop reporting news? If RTHK does not report news, what should it report? Should "Regina IP's official broadcaster" be set up to exclusively broadcast news about Mrs IP? Is that what she wants? I very much hope that Mrs IP can respond as to why she holds that RTHK should not do news reporting. In countries with public broadcasters such as the United Kingdom and Canada, would the local legislators openly tell their public broadcasters not to report news and to switch to other work? Nowadays, there is such a person as Mrs Regina IP openly making such remarks in Hong Kong. How unbelievable!
Anyway, back to our question. We hope that after listening to our views, the Secretary will ponder on how RTHK can do better in electronic broadcasting and various aspects, so that it can move forward from the 1970s towards the 21st century. I hope that next time when we enter the on-air studio to attend its programme, we will not feel like having gone back to the 1970s. Instead, we will be back to the modern age and walk forward towards the 21st century.
If any Members hold that the news reported by RTHK is biased or its angle is questionable, in my opinion, they can raise this point, but members of the public will ultimately decide by themselves into which station they really wish to tune. They have such freedom. If Members consider RTHK biased and its news of poor quality, they have the right not to listen. No one will force them to tune into RTHK. Yet they absolutely cannot say that since they do not like the news reported by RTHK, its resources should be cut, holding that it should not do news reporting. This is a wrong attitude which is absolutely unacceptable. In respect of these three heads, I so submit.
DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, although we are debating today the appropriations in the Budget, in fact, the core of or the most philosophical part in the public finance management is how to utilize the funding allocated to government departments to achieve results in public governance. 9378 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
As regards the wisdom entailed, I believe the more senior Members present should have a certain measure of experience to understand how a relatively stable effect was achieved by means of allocation of public finance during the years of colonial government.
If Members examine carefully the 33 heads with no amendment now, they would find that the government departments/agencies involved actually share two attributes. First, most of these departments provide services to the public direct, examples of which must include the Auxiliary Medical Service ("AMS"), the Audit Commission―that is, the Government has been conducting small- or large-scale statistical projects … excuse me, it should be the Census and Statistics Department―the Customs and Excise Department, the Department of Health ("DH"), the Government Laboratory, and the Legal Aid Department ("LAD"), etc. The first attribute is in fact most distinct. These 33 government departments/agencies the heads of which are subject to no amendment have a very close relationship with people's lives and are vitally linked with them.
Second, Honourable Members may not pay much attention to another attribute which is more important. These government departments place particular emphasis on public participation or public engagement, such as AMS, the Civil Aid Service, and a rather high level of public participation is also seen in DH. Of course, we must not forget "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong", which was mentioned by different Members just now, and the Government Flying Service, etc. In fact, apart from providing public services, the functions of these departments also place particular emphasis on public participation or public engagement. There is relatively little controversy about these 33 government departments, to which no Member has proposed any amendment, and I think it is related to the second attribute. Of course, some of these departments are also controversial. Personally, I am particularly concerned about "Head 121―Independent Police Complaints Council" ("IPCC"). Why has no Member proposed any amendment in respect of IPCC? Perhaps such amendments have been ruled out … it means that there are other reasons, okay. Moreover, the Correctional Services Department may be controversial as well.
Yet, Deputy Chairman, if we look at the issue from the perspective mentioned at the beginning of my speech just now, you will understand that the main reason for these 33 government departments the heads of which are subject to no amendment to be relatively less controversial or not heavily criticized is not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9379 simply because they provide government services in a relatively fair, efficient or honest and dutiful manner. Instead, members of the public believe that these departments are closely related to their lives or are indispensable.
Let me take RTHK, which has been mentioned by the most Members, as an example. In fact, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen mentioned at the beginning of his speech that, regarding RTHK, Members can only propose amendments to reduce its funding, whilst we are not empowered to propose any allocation of additional resources. I think the crux lies in here. I consider that if the Government possesses the wisdom of governance in the long term, it should allocate more resources to the several government departments mentioned by me earlier, for example, the Audit Commission, LAD, RTHK, as well as other government departments which can be regarded as bridges between the government and the public and providers of public services. In fact, the Government should increase by large margins the resources of these departments. However, just take RTHK as an example, the Hong Kong Government has actually been acting its resources, contrary to the wisdom of public governance since the handover of sovereignty.
Deputy Chairman, if you understand the whole case in some measure, you must be aware that RTHK should not be regarded as the official mouthpiece. In fact, when we discuss sovereignty 10 years after the handover of sovereignty, we would think that the nature of RTHK is similar to that of the China Central Television, and in this way RTHK would be regarded as the official mouthpiece. However, in the colonial history of the past, RTHK was actually assisting the Hong Kong Government in administering its governance, and I believe the current move of the Government to reduce resources or "dry up" RTHK is self-defeating, which would render the SAR Government at its wit's end in governance. No matter the Government makes how great a public relations effort, creates how many "avengers", produces how many figures and characters, such work will only result in some noises which are lopsided or just transient, but in fact it cannot foster a deeper or stronger relationship between the public and the Government.
I would spend some time on talking about the history of RTHK, in the hope that the officials would realize that they should not take it so simple as to think that just pinching someone's neck would be favourable to their governance; this will only bring harm instead. In fact, the significant change in the role of RTHK can be traced back to the turmoil in Hong Kong society in the mid-1960s, 9380 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 especially after 1966 and 1967. Specifically, after the 1967 Riots, the then colonial government of Hong Kong emphasized in particular their proposition that there was a lack of channels for the colonial government to communicate with the general public. Hong Kong people at that time were certainly characterized by their belief that "one should never step through a government office door in his lifetime". They were reluctant to communicate with the government, nor were they willing to reflect their opinions to government departments. It is because they believed that the colonial government cared only about gains in Hong Kong and the government was corrupted, so society back then was extremely passive and withdrawn.
Having said that, there were some changes in the said situation in the mid-1960s as some historical events had broken out in society, that is, the turmoil that I mentioned just now. Therefore, a very important change emerged in the 1960s, when RTHK became part of the government establishment. In the 1930s, the predecessor of RTHK was originally known as the Hong Kong Radio Society, but a change happened when the then RTHK was incorporated into the government establishment in the 1960s. Donald BROOKS from the British Broadcasting Corporation came to Hong Kong to take up the post of Director of Broadcasting, and he introduced significant changes to the public broadcasting arena in Hong Kong. He opened up channels for receiving opinions widely, which not only led to the division of labour between RTHK and the Information Services Department ("ISD"), but also brought in new elements for public broadcasting in Hong Kong. This also explains why in Hong Kong nowadays we would consider that the Legislative Council or the press commentaries are discussions in a public society―or a civil society, to put it in a relatively academic light. The reason why we can turn into a civil society can actually be attributed to the changes silently brought to Hong Kong during that period of time, starting from RTHK.
I believe the Secretary or the Deputy Chairman was still in school in those years. RTHK produced plenty of foundation-laying programmes in the 1970s. For instance, a programme called Speaking Your Heart through the Phone ("電話 訴心聲") was on air every Friday evening in 1969. Deputy Chairman, this programme is different from those in which the audience can chat with Pamela PECK. During this programme which was launched in 1969, government officials would go to RTHK to answer phone calls from Hong Kong people, together with the programme hosts, listening to their hardships when they got LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9381 home after working from nine to five. It was such a major breakthrough in those years, for it turned out that officials of the colonial government would listen to public opinions.
Then, RTHK was striving ahead in 1970. It not only became independent of ISD, but also came to the most important milestone of public broadcasting. A morning programme called Strolling under Peak Victoria ("太平山下漫步") was broadcast at 8:00 am from Monday to Friday, starting to allow members of the public to phone in and voice their needs direct. This approach is similar to that adopted for this year's Budget, in which Financial Secretary Paul CHAN pretended to take a big step forward by doing a live broadcast on Facebook and invited WONG Cho-lam to listen to public opinions with him. Sorry, RTHK already did that in the 1970s, and the programme was even broadcast every day. Yet, Deputy Chairman, we saw a reversal in the situation after 1997, whereas the Hong Kong Government held that RTHK was a bit disobedient and queer so that they have to "dry up" RTHK. In fact, from the 1970s to the 1980s, RTHK not only performed the task of listening to public opinions for the government, but also enhanced the acceptance of the colonial government in the colonial world, whilst the governance in Hong Kong was relatively stable at that time. This is in fact some sort of governance strategies, a kind of political trickery. By allocating resources to a particular organization to answer phone calls from members of the public, the public would then perceive that the Government has done something. How good it is! Yet, the Hong Kong Government does not understand this. Now the live broadcast by the Hong Kong Government on Facebook has even ended up in a total mess, not to mention its approach of making the cash handout of $4,000, which has aroused widespread indignation and discontent now.
I may have digressed too far, let me talk about something closer. Why do I hope that Honourable Members would broaden their views in giving this first speech of mine? We are not simply discussing the appropriations, we are not simply discussing whether a government department has the resources to answer to the aspirations of the public efficiently. In fact, the appropriations per se are part and parcel to the governance philosophy of the Government, but perhaps it is because the team of the current-term Government comes from administrative officials that they can only see input and output, and when it comes to output, no significant social benefits can be seen. This is actually the greatest limitation of 9382 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 the Government presently. Now I would not even talk about such factors as whether they are elected by the people, but they simply do not understand all these.
RTHK started to organize the City Forum in the 1970s and the 1980s. SO King-hang is very miserable now in that he has to beg like a dog―I am sorry―he has to implore Members and speakers to attend the Forum by all means … I cannot tell the name of that person, he has discussed with me on the Greater Bay Area at the Central Ferry Piers, but I have forgotten his name. Anyway, he is a member of something like the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. Why is this so? In fact, the City Forum is not a forum for Members or some celebrities to present their views. The City Forum itself allows officials to sit down and respond directly to members of the public. In the 1980s, the colonial government gradually resorted to enlightened autocracy in governing Hong Kong, but the SAR Government has completely abandoned all these tactics nowadays. They simply take an autocratic approach towards Hongkongers. What is an autocratic approach? They can employ financial means to sap a public body and use administrative means to bring about some political effects. For instance―let me pick an example from these 33 heads―it is obvious that the role of the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC") itself is to respond directly to the aspirations of the public. Yet, regarding the monitoring over the judicial authorities, Hong Kong people actually have no way of lodging complaints apart from counting on other ordinances which have legal effect formally, such as the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance. For instance, with regard to the problems of off-duty police officers, problems of the Police, etc., it is the responsibility of IPCC to relieve the grievances of the public through administrative means. However, such entities have just become a part of the governance structure of the Government in that they would maintain stability for it. When the grievances of the public continue to accumulate, for example, when they see the case of an off-duty police officer stealing a T-shirt worth $128, people will make fun of it. There is hearsay that now the police officer is even charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice and obstructing police officer in execution of duty.
There are indeed all kinds of items in these 33 heads. Everyone would understand why some departments do not attract criticisms. For instance, the Fire Services Department ("FSD") would not be criticized, why? Because FSD is so dedicated to discharging their duties, to an extent that a firefighter sacrificed LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9383 his life when rescuing a police officer of the airport police team who went hiking in inclement weather. In the past, it was impossible for these problems to arise in the disciplined forces, but such problems would arise in the disciplined forces nowadays. It is precisely the result of power, and such power is directly related to the appropriations. Therefore, I hope Members will understand why we―whether it is me, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Mr Dennis KWOK or Ms Claudia MO―have spoken so much on supporting RTHK. It is not just about fairness, it is about whether the Hong Kong Government knows how to govern Hong Kong. If they do not, I really have to quote a famous remark made by Mr WONG Yuk-man, former Member of the Legislative Council: "Do read more books", a remark he often made in the past. I so submit.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, please speak.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, a quorum is not present in the Chamber.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki has requested a headcount.
Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): A quorum is now present in the Chamber. The meeting now continues. Dr KWOK Ka-ki, please speak.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, in this session we will debate heads with no amendment. But before I go on with my speech, I have to give the President, Mr Andrew LEUNG, a dressing down because the approach 9384 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 he adopted for this meeting has further restricted the speaking time of Members. For instance, Members are given only seven hours to speak in this session, and this is unreasonable.
Now I wish to speak on "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong". Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK") is one of the few news organizations upholding the most basic press ethics and not being influenced by red tycoons, which are rarely seen in Hong Kong nowadays. Why am I saying this? According to the press freedom index just published by Reporters Without Borders this year, Hong Kong's ranking further dropped three places to 73, which comes under the "problematic" category.
Since the reunification, the press freedom in Hong Kong has been on a decline. In our examination of the Budget, we do not have the power to increase the provisions for individual departments. As Members can see and as a number of Members said clearly when they spoke in this session earlier, the Government is sapping RTHK. This is absolutely shameful.
Look at what is happening now. Let us look at some members of the mass media, television broadcasters and radio stations, including the Television Broadcasts Limited ("TVB") which was said to have the largest viewership in the past. It has now become "CCTVB", meaning the Hong Kong version of the China Central Television ("CCTV"), as described by a lot of members of the public. What we consider most outrageous is that "CCTVB" has time and again blotted out programmes that RTHK can show during the prime time, including LegCo Review and Pentaprism, and it has replaced and cancelled television programmes that were originally popular among many people. It is most infuriating that the Government remains dumbstruck and in the renewal of these free television licences, the Government continued to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to what happened, taking no action to defend RTHK, the one and only public broadcasting organization not influenced by any commercial organization. It remains a news organization commanding public trust.
According to the second stage of the Television Programme Appreciation Survey Index Survey 2018, 8 of the top 20 programmes were produced by RTHK. With an overall appreciation index of 69.19%, RTHK ranked the highest among the four free television broadcasters and won the award of the Highest Average Appreciation Index for the year. However, this is not because RTHK has a lot of funding. RTHK has been "dried up" in two ways. One is by way of funding. The revised estimate of RTHK in 2018 was $1.4 billion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9385 whereas the estimate for the following year, that is, 2019-2020, is only $1.2 billion. Its funding will not increase. Rather, it will be cut further by 1.9%. Is this not ridiculous? What is this Government doing? Of course, we understand that the Government and "Carrie LAM 777" or other principal officials always dislike RTHK's approach in news reporting because speaking the truth is not their expectation. As some employees or commentators of RTHK, including NG Chi-sum who was sacked by RTHK, have said, the biggest crime of RTHK is its perseverance in upholding the freedom of the press and its perseverance in criticizing society and the Government from the position of public interest. This is, of course, the most heinous of crimes.
In fact, had RTHK followed the practices of CCTV on the Mainland, surely it would have made lucrative gains as the news anchors of CCTV will become new wives of senior officials and CCTV is also a breeding ground of corruption and bribery, and if the personnel of CCTV can trim the sail to the wind, many of them will get promoted and make a fortune in the Mainland. While Mainland China ranks almost the lowest at 173 in the press freedom index, that would not be a problem so long as you are smart enough to know how to behave, willing to give up editorial independence and willing to give up voicing out for the people, just as what "Carrie LAM 777" and many principal officials or the pro-establishment and pro-Government camp have said. That would not be a problem, for it would be fine so long as you know how to behave, and you will have promising prospects so long as you know how to behave. This way, probably RTHK would not have been sapped. But in reality, so long as RTHK does what it has to do, it will be sapped day after day.
Can Members imagine that in RTHK there are 28 contract staff members who have been employed on contract terms for a decade? Is it not that according to the Government, staff can be employed on contract terms only up to three years? The one with the longest period of employment has worked for 18.8 years, which means that he is still employed on contract terms after working for almost two decades. I think the Government is indeed disappointing and shameful. In RTHK there are 2 600 to 3 000 self-employed persons or Category II Service Providers, and their actual number is more than 1 926 as stated in the Director of Audit's report. This is indeed most undesirable, and the Government is deceiving these employees, for they do not have adequate employment protection, nor do they enjoy any welfare, and yet they still have to work there. There is only one objective and that is, to sap RTHK continuously.
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It is most absurd that as Members all know, this year is the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, and when Carrie LAM was running in the election, she already played cunning tricks on RTHK, alleging that its programmes were below par and that its operation was outdated. It is known that this Chief Executive already started to play tricks before she assumed office. So, she has been taking actions to sap RTHK precisely to achieve the objective of her vicious tricks adopted during her election campaign by continuously employing wicked means to serve her purpose. But what is she going to do this year? She wants to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China and expects RTHK to produce more programmes and even extend the broadcasting hours. Its funding is reduced but more work has to be done, and worse still, productions have to be made to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China for the Communist Party of China. I can foresee that due to insufficient funds, the quality of the programmes will have to be compromised and then the pro-establishment camp, such as the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong ("DAB") and the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("FTU") will come forth to accuse RTHK of doing a bad job when this is such an important event of the country and at such a prestigious, majestic moment. This may probably stir up a lot of controversies then. However, how much funding has RTHK been provided? Sorry, its funding has not increased but decreased.
Some people said that the programmes of RTHK are bad and that there are reruns of programmes. But let us look at what has actually happened. When the Government recovered the spectrum of ex-Asia Television Limited ("ATV"), the Government made RTHK take over ATV's spectrum and produce a considerable amount of programmes despite reluctance on the part of RTHK and without a substantial increase in its resources. This is actually tantamount to sending RTHK to hell. The programmes hence produced were less than good in quality and RTHK was made to take the blame.
Members of the public or Members of this Council who have visited RTHK will know that the equipment of RTHK is dilapidated and its information technology facilities always lag behind the trends. During the onslaught of Mangkhut in Hong Kong, there were cases of water leakage and actually, water leakage invariably occurs there whenever Hong Kong is hit by a typhoon. Some people have asked: Is it not that the Government will build a new Broadcasting House for RTHK? This former Bureau Director from DAB is awesome as he said that this had nothing to do with them. He said that it was because of opposition from the Legislative Council that this development project was not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9387 taken forward. We all know that the Government seeks to act in collusion with his allies outside the Government and in order to sap RTHK, it certainly needs the assistance of the pro-establishment camp, such as DAB and FTU, so as to eliminate RTHK. Then it was said that studies would be conducted on sharing the new building with another government department, such as developing a joint-user building with the Government Laboratory but eventually the plan fell through. The Government is awesome. It keeps on procrastinating and looks on while RTHK is stewing in its own juice. Simple enough, the Government can do so by not providing sufficient funds for RTHK, and besides, it reprimands RTHK on the one hand and lashes out at it on the other. Then the Government continues to hire employees on contract terms to the extent that even those who have worked for 10 years or 18 years cannot become formal employees in the hope that when things go on like this, these employees will become disheartened and quit.
But let me tell you this: Luckily the reporters, programme hosts, and all front-stage and backstage personnel of RTHK are exerting their utmost for Hong Kong's only public broadcasting radio and television station. No matter how harsh the Government has treated them or how many cunning tricks the Government has employed, they have performed their duties faithfully, refusing to take one step back. We are lucky to have this team of people who have persistently exerted themselves in performing their bounden duty of defending RTHK despite so many hardships.
A long time ago it was already suggested that RTHK should become an independent organization similar to the British Broadcasting Corporation and that provisions should be made by the Government from a dedicated fund. This is certainly impossible because it would not be possible to sap RTHK then. It is often the case that when the Government does a bad thing, it definitely does not admit it. Its handling of RTHK this time around is just the same.
The second point that I wish to make concerns "Head 37―Department of Health". It is really difficult for me to put up with the Government's practices anymore. The Government said that the services are bad due to a shortage of manpower. But have we not seen clearly that the Department of Health ("DH") has pandered to outworn beliefs and practices, not bothering to make improvement over the years? For example, with regard to the lack of dermatologists, actually a lot of people aspire to take up these positions but it is difficult for them to do so because even though many people are waitlisted for training, DH has not forged cooperation with the Hospital Authority or 9388 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 universities in providing training programmes. As a result, doctors have to overcome hurdles after hurdles, and it is only after they have completed the initial training by themselves that they are eligible for making an application. No matter how many patients are waiting, DH has still turned a blind eye to them on the pretext that nobody is willing to take up these jobs. I think if members of the public continue to be misled into believing in the Government, thinking that the shortage of service is caused by a shortage of manpower or graduates not willing to take up these jobs, let me tell the public that they must not be misled by the Government. The same happens in the department responsible for conducting intellectual assessments of children. The situation is just the same as they simply rest on their laurels, and promotion opportunities are lacking, training opportunities are far from satisfactory, and no arrangement is made for the trained doctors to receive specialist training early but then the Government puts up the excuse that nobody are interested in these jobs.
Second, the enforcement work of DH. An example is that DH has not properly carried out the work of primary health care but has introduced the elderly health care vouchers instead. We have seen that the elderly health care vouchers have been used to buy dried fish maw, dried seafood, and even expensive spectacles, resulting in a loss of public coffers. Actually this is not what DH should do and as we have said many times already, we have over $3 billion in the public coffers and honestly, DH should effectively increase the number of elderly health centres and the number of places in these centres. The Government should also provide specific age groups, such as people aged 50, 60 or 70, with free health checks suiting the needs of the respective age groups. These are what the Government should do. The Government has failed to attend to its own proper duties but given away cash instead. Now the money is used to buy spectacles and fish maw, although some improvement may have been made by the measure introduced some time ago of reducing the limit for buying spectacles. However, I think the use of these vouchers to buy fish maw will continue because the Government is reluctant to impose regulation.
Is it that our Government has degenerated to such a sorry, deplorable state? Its level is so low that it does not even know what to do but simply gives away "candies", money, and elderly health care vouchers, thinking that this is the solution to the problem. Although there is no way for me to reduce the funding for DH, I must say that this department is disappointing to us.
I so submit.
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MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, the first session involves 33 heads with no amendment but we have only seven hours to debate them. I believe actually it is necessary and worthwhile to discuss many matters, for there are just too numerous of them to name. Moreover, I have to point out that it is an unreasonable practice to limit Members' debate time.
The Budget is hugely different from other Bills in the sense that no amendment is proposed to it does not mean there is no point worth discussion or no controversy. Just now many Honourable colleagues have presented their views on Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"). We are all worry-ridden because, after all, RTHK is a member of the press and now the emergence of many China-funded media has led to retrogression in freedom of the press. It is very important to maintain the impartiality of a public broadcaster.
Returning to the controversy over the Budget, Members not only have to hold the debate in accordance with the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"), but more importantly, the existing RoP prohibits Members from proposing increases in expenditure. Coming back to these 33 heads, I often say that if Members have the power to request increases in expenditure, I wish to increase certain expenditures. For example, I often mention the inadequate resources for the disciplined services, such as the Correctional Services Department ("CSD") and the Fire Services Department ("FSD"). Looking at the numbers, the expenditure of the Police Force is almost the sum of those of all the other disciplined services combined. Are other disciplined services lacking in resources? Is there a need for an increase in funding? Previously, when I went to CSD on official visits, the CSD staff told me about leakage problems in their quarters, but I could not propose any increase in the relevant expenditure precisely because of the restriction in RoP. Regarding many government departments or organizations, such as FSD, the Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance ("SCIOCS") and the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC"), I consider that some of their work should develop further, but Members cannot propose any increase in expenditure due to the restriction of RoP. Moreover, there are problems in the staff establishment and resources of some departments but, by the same token, we cannot propose our suggestions by way of amendments. Nevertheless, it does not mean there is no problem with the fundings allocated to such heads.
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I would like to first discuss the head about the Secretariat of SCIOCS. The expenditure estimate for 2019-2020 is $25.2 million, which represents an increase of 4.6%, and the size of establishment remains at 23 persons. The Interception of Communications and Surveillance (Amendment) Bill 2015, passed in June 2016, empowered the Commissioner to require the provision of interception and surveillance products by law enforcement agencies for inspection, which is one of the significant changes, so that the Commissioner has the power to monitor law enforcement agencies. However, many stipulations in the Interception of Communications and Surveillance (Amendment) Ordinance still fell short of people's demands. For example, regulation on hacker software, cracking of mobile phones, requesting provision of users' information by network service providers, etc., are not within the ambit of the Ordinance.
The Secretary for Security, Mr LEE Ka-chiu, personally admitted in 2017 that the Police possessed the technology to crack mobile phones and, on the grounds of affecting law enforcement, refused to deny the Police's use of hacker software. It caused us to raise doubts as to whether the Police have been using some covert technologies to intercept people's personal information, and the Commissioner has failed to carry out monitoring. Following the spread of some network crimes, the Ordinance should be reviewed in a timely manner so as to prevent the Police from infringing upon people's privacy without restraint.
In the Annual Report 2017 by the Commissioner, I have taken note of "71 cases of heightened likelihood of obtaining [legal professional privilege] information" and "32 cases [for which] the panel judge allowed the continuation of the prescribed authorization", which is of a higher proportion. Section 3 of the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance stipulates that, in renewing the prescribed authorization, all relevant conditions must be considered while a balance must be struck among all the interests of various parties, including protection of privacy and legal professional privilege. However, the Commissioner pointed out that the Ordinance does not provide any express guidelines. In this connection, the Commissioner considered that the relevant authority has adopted an overly ambiguous and relaxed standard for the continuance of the prescribed authorization, and thus a review is called for. It clearly illustrates that even the Commissioner deemed the monitoring effected by the Ordinance inadequate.
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The Commissioner also pointed out in paragraph 9.9 that "a high level of alertness maintained by [law-enforcement agency] officers in performing their intercepting duties is important for guarding against the risk of obtaining information subject to [legal professional privilege]." In fact, it is a most accurate comment. However, in my view, it is undesirable that the authority's existing code of practice does not set out how officers of law enforcement agencies should guard against such risks. As people's personal privacy is handled and safeguarded by the Commissioner, and there are inadequacies in the Ordinance or in its enforcement, I personally hold that a review should be conducted in this respect.
What does the power to listen to interception products cover? The Government had all along refused to grant the Commissioner the power to listen to interception products for reasons of privacy. Consequently, after repeated demands, the Government made an amendment in 2016, making people realize today how important the power to check such products is to safeguarding the personal information of citizens. Paragraph 4.34 of the report states that, having checked case 4.1, the Commissioner found a discrepancy between the meeting time mentioned in the call and that stated in the report. More importantly, the Commissioner deemed the explanation given by the law enforcement agency undesirable, which reflected a "couldn't-care-less" attitude of the officer concerned. I truly appreciate that the Commissioner has made such great efforts to safeguard the personal privacy of citizens but officers of law enforcement agencies could not care less.
As regards another case, case 4.2, the Commissioner indicated that checking of the case revealed a discrepancy concerning the contents of calls in reports to the panel judge and pointed out that the performance of the law enforcement agency officer concerned in her intercepting duties was neither satisfactory nor professional. As stated in the report, there were a total of 18 cases of non-compliance, irregularity or incidents last year, 60% higher than the 11 case as indicated in the report the year before. Among them, three were discovered through selective examination of interception products. I believe if more resources are available for handling the interception of communications and surveillance, more cases can be identified or traced.
Therefore, it is evident in the aforesaid cases that, if the Commissioner does not have the power to check nor sufficient resources, there would be no way to find out how many discrepancies are contained in the reports or even if the 9392 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 contents are false. Currently, except cases of legal professional privilege or journalistic material which require examination, the Commissioner can only randomly select certain cases for checking. Last year, on a specific selection basis, the Commissioner selected the interception products of 316 authorizations for examination. Given the extremely bad attitude of the law enforcement officers in the execution of their interception duties, the Commissioner should raise the number of selection so as to urge the law enforcement agencies to perform interception duties in a more professional manner.
The second head I wish to discuss is about IPCC. There are some members in IPCC―but I have to first say that political appointment is very biased, and it is my view on IPCC. It is noteworthy that the 2019-2020 estimate for this head is $95.9 million, representing an increase of 21.1%, which is a relatively large increment. I am fairly concerned about how the Government will use the increased provision.
LEUNG Chun-ying, during his term of office, reshuffled IPCC by appointing members purely from the pro-establishment camp, thus immediately undermining the strength of monitoring. When I was the convenor of the Civil Human Rights Front ("CHRF"), as a practice, IPCC would meet with the organizer of the 1 July procession, which is CHRF, to canvass the views of participants of the procession on law enforcement by the Police. And they certainly would review the manner of law enforcement by the Police during the 1 July procession. However, now IPCC does not meet with protesters but only monitors the procession with the Police on the footbridge, while the many protesters march past the footbridge. Some Members and IPCC personnel observe on the footbridge in a rather "detached and elevated" fashion. I am not sure what they can see. There is a lack of incumbent or former Members from the pro-democracy camp in the IPCC membership, and even many relatively neutral people are not appoint to it. And it has completely destroyed the credibility of IPCC and rendered it a "public office club" for "LEUNG's Fans", the pro-establishment camp and opponents of the Occupy Central movement. Last year, the Chairman of IPCC was changed from Larry KWOK to Anthony Francis NEOH. We still have to observe if there is any improvement in his modus operandi in the future. However, now we at least see an increase in the estimate. I expect IPCC to further enhance its work because its existing structure does not provide adequate backup for it to conduct independent investigations into complaints.
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IPCC has 51 staff members, with 16 of them being directly in charge of handling of cases. I wish to ask Honourable colleagues if they have any knowledge of the manpower of similar organizations in other places. Last year, Dr Junius HO and I represented the Legislative Council in a visit to the United Kingdom. What is the manpower of the Independent Police Complaints Commission in the United Kingdom? Though we did not visit the local commission, I know it has 804 staff members. IPCC of Hong Kong only has 51 staff members while its British counterpart has more than 800, of which 482 being in charge of investigations or follow-ups on cases. The Office of the Independent Police Review Director of Ontario, Canada has 51 staff members, and 30 of them are in charge of case investigations and follow-ups.
I wish to tell Honourable colleagues that we ought to look at the ratios, too. The manpower of the Hong Kong Police stands at 28 000 persons, while that of the United Kingdom is 127 000 persons and that of Ontario, Canada 24 000 persons, which is smaller than Hong Kong. However, after conversion of ratios, among the three places to which I have referred, IPCC of Hong Kong has the lowest staff-to-police officer ratio. Then how will people be convinced that it can effectively monitor the police officers? Moreover, the existing functions of IPCC have been subjected to various kinds of limitations. For example, people do not file complaints against the Police direct with IPCC which will then initiate investigations on its own. If people wish to have their complaints referred to IPCC, they first have to lodge a complaint with the Complaints Against Police Office which will then be referred to IPCC. Putting aside the problems in the existing system, judging by manpower alone, I doubt whether IPCC has hired adequate staff. I really hope that the new Chairman of IPCC, Anthony Francis NEOH, can look into this problem and study if there is a need for review of the ratio between investigation personnel and police officers.
As stated in the annual report of IPCC published last year, 1 617 reportable complaints were passed in 2017-2018. Despite a greater number compared to that of the same period last year, I must point out that the number of complaints handled by IPCC was way smaller than that between 2011 and 2014. For example, between 2011 and 2012, when JAT Sew-tong was the Chairman, IPCC handled a total of 3 145 cases, whereas 2 591 cases were handled between 2013 and 2014. It is evident in the numbers that the strength of complaint handling of IPCC has weakened during the chairmanship of Larry KWOK, as compared with that of JAT Sew-tong. I do not know how strong and forceful the new Chairman will be in dealing with matters. Nonetheless, obviously in terms of 9394 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 numbers―we are already not looking at the breakdown―it is indicative that the number of follow-up cases is rather undesirable. Now let us look at the breakdown. Among the complaints received, the details of many of them are not made known. For example, some cases categorized as no follow-up needed or put in other categories will eventually become "cold cases", and at best a few percentage points of them will be selected for examination. We can imagine that there is much room for consideration in terms of resource allocation.
Given the trend of the police system expanding, the role of IPCC has become ever more important. The Legislative Council often receives many funding applications from the Police for purchase of water cannon-equipped vehicles, an increase in the number of police officers or creation of some additional sub-units. In this connection, how significant a role can IPCC play as a monitor? The Independent Police Complaints Council Ordinance does not require that the Police fully accept IPCC's recommendations on improvements of the former's standing procedures. Have the Police examined the reasons behind it? Does it have plans to draw reference from the practice of the United Kingdom to grant IPCC the power to conduct independent investigations? As regards the issue of IPCC, I will continue to discuss it later on.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Does any Member who has not spoken in this session wish to speak?
Mr Charles Peter MOK, please speak.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I would also like to speak on these several subheads, in particular matters within the purview of the Innovation and Technology Commission ("ITC"). The Budget this year has certainly proposed new measures, some of which will be conducive to the industry. For example, increasing the monthly allowance for researchers under the Researcher Programme is an effective measure―I will not read out the exact amounts. Other similar measures include the extension of the funding period of the Postdoctoral Hub Programme from two years to three years.
However, I would like to tell the Government here that, although these programmes are helpful to the industry, the importation of talents remains very difficult under the Postdoctoral Hub Programme. Just now, I heard the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9395
Secretary for Innovation and Technology mention that the Government had to attract, nurture and retain talents. Yet, I believe that not enough effort has been made by the Government at retaining talents and the skills upgrading of existing talents, and certainly this should be the responsibility of another Policy Bureau. However, merely increasing the allowance and extending the funding period under the programmes are not sufficient for addressing the problems. As Members can see, the number of talents imported through the Postdoctoral Hub Programme remains limited. We all understand that, unless a very high salary is offered, working in Hong Kong offers little appeal to professional talents. This is a serious issue troubling Hong Kong's competitiveness. Business owners should not have the wrong impression that, since the Government provides a bit of support, it is no longer necessary for them to offer higher salaries in order to attract truly outstanding talents to Hong Kong.
On the other hand, these programmes often impose restrictions which I consider unnecessary. For instance, only certain research institutions and companies under the Science Park and Cyberport incubation programmes or their tenants are eligible to participate in the programmes, while in fact there are many start-ups outside the Science Park and Cyberport in other areas of Hong Kong. Some of them would rent a shared space in areas such as Kwun Tong which I would call the "little Silicon Valley" now, Cheung Sha Wan and Lai Chi Kok. These companies chose not to start their businesses at the government parks for various reasons, such as the remoteness and the high rents. They have achieved good results but many preferential policies do not benefit them.
Hence, I believe ITC should not formulate policies that facilitate only itself but not others. That means companies under the relevant incubation programmes have already been approved, so vetting is no longer necessary. All companies in the parks are eligible to enjoy the benefits, while companies outside the parks are not allowed to participate in the programmes at all, regardless of their scale. As a result, resources are not put to efficient use and help cannot really be extended to the industry.
In this year's Budget, the Technology Voucher Programme ("TVP") is converted into a regular funding programme under the Innovation and Technology Fund. However, for some time in the past, members of the industry have reflected that the vetting and approval procedure of the fund warrants improvement, including multiple application forms and the long vetting process, to name but a few. If the Government really wants to help small and medium 9396 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 enterprises ("SMEs") in technology application, first, the procedure should not be too complicated, or else SMEs will be scared off; and second, the application procedure should not deter SMEs from making applications, convinced that they are not able to do so. As a matter of fact, agencies have emerged due to this situation which has brought about many problems. Worse still, incidents similar to bid-rigging among agencies have occurred because the Government has to shop around for the best deal.
Drawing reference from past experience, ITC will relax the application criteria under the new programme. Upon discussions with the industry a few weeks ago, I found that the industry lacks information and is longing for more opportunities. Perhaps ITC should allocate more manpower to meeting with companies located outside the Science Park or through chambers of commerce in order to explain the application procedure. Another thing, which I think is very important, is that public officers often simply read out the presentation in briefing sessions, which makes it difficult for people to understand. The events organized by us, on the contrary, have invited applicant companies and suppliers who had secured business through TVP to attend. The same applies to the Postdoctoral Hub Programme. We have invited relevant doctoral degree holders for experience sharing and found it more helpful this way. ITC has done a good job in recommending speakers for experience sharing, which we wish will continue. The Government should not think that it can simply sit back and wait for applications just because the funding ceiling has been increased from $200,000 to $400,000 and the threshold relaxed. Instead, it should put more efforts in promotion.
Moreover, as far as the Budget is concerned, the industry and I hold that currently ITC focuses overly on research and development institutions, but offers little direct support to the industry. Apart from the small amount of subsidy provided to SMEs under TVP, the substantial resources remaining are allocated to research and development institutions and the Science Park.
In this regard, we have proposed to extend the Internship Programme to cover all start-ups with substantive business in Hong Kong, or even charitable organizations or charitable trusts, so that they may hire local graduates in technology, information technology or engineering as interns, thus creating more job opportunities, as well as increasing the attractiveness of these disciplines. Do not expect students to choose these disciplines eagerly just because the Government often mentions STEM (science, technology, engineering and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9397 mathematics) nowadays. Quite the contrary, these disciplines, in particular engineering, still have difficulty in enrolling students and, according to the scores of the students admitted, the levels of these disciplines have not been upgraded significantly. Hence, we believe this initiative would be helpful. Unfortunately, the Government has not done it this time. We hope it will do so the next.
Furthermore, the Government often advocates re-industrialization. We suggest the establishment of an automation support scheme to subsidize labour-intensive industries to launch or upgrade their automation projects. We recommend the Government to first allocate $500 million for that purpose. In fact, the Government has no difficulty injecting whatever amount of funding, but a plan has to be drawn up first in order to subsidize labour-intensive industries to launch automation projects and acquire automation equipment. A similar initiative was already introduced in Singapore a few years ago and a number of manufacturing enterprises there have benefited from it. There are less manufacturing activities in Hong Kong, but still, there is a number of labour-intensive industries which can benefit from automation. However, some issues cannot be resolved easily with the several hundred thousand dollars offered under TVP mentioned just now. In this connection, will the Government consider drawing reference from the format of TVP? TVP is a very good tool which the Government had been reluctant to implement until recent years when it started to make new moves and, drawing reference from the Education Voucher Scheme, provide direct funding to companies such that the latter can make their own choice. Despite the Government's concern over possible abuse, it is hoped that the implementation will improve gradually after the learning process despite the initially cumbersome procedure. Why do we not introduce more similar programmes, extend the scope or incorporate the automation support scheme into TVP at the next stage, so as to subsidize upgraded and large-scale investments, in particular large-scale investments in automation equipment?
We also propose to allocate $500 million to provide a subsidy of up to $100,000 to eligible SMEs in Hong Kong for improving their information security, which is very important. After recent exchanges with members of the industry, including people handling information security in government departments, I found that many companies would not spend the fund acquired under TVP on addressing networking security issues. A survey on such technology has pointed out that the servers of many SMEs in Hong Kong have 9398 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 been attacked unknowingly, or knowingly without taking any action to tackle it. The proportion is very high compared with other advanced economies in the world.
Hence, the effort made on this front is not adequate. Can the Government set up a fund dedicated to helping SMEs solve security issues, instead of incorporating it into TVP? If the $400,000 subsidy is spent on improving the resource planning of enterprises, there will be nothing left for other aspects, when in fact, security is an important area that should be handled separately.
Deputy Chairman, here, I took the opportunity to point out a few things that ITC should have done but has not done yet, and what has already been done but requires improvements.
MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I have told you I will definitely have a lot to say. I spoke for 15 minutes in the first round earlier. Now I am going to speak for another 15 minutes, and it is actually my wish to be given several hours to speak. The problems with the Government are too numerous to list, and they are supposed to be discussed at meetings of the Legislative Council. It is the duty of Members to deliberate businesses, which should not be transacted merely by way of circulation. If we need only secure support for passage of an item from a majority of Members by way of circulation at meetings of a Bills Committee, is it still necessary for us to have meetings in future? Deputy Chairman, there is also no need for the Legislative Council to convene any meeting, right?
I still have something more to say about the issues relating to the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC"). What is another deficiency of IPCC identified by me? While the Police have indicated their willingness to accept recommendations, what improvement mechanism has been put in place? Every year, IPCC will make recommendations on improvement to various practices in such aspects as law enforcement, body searches and the Police General Orders. May I ask if the Police have positively responded to IPCC's recommendations on improvement, so that they may tell us in future that they have improved such practices taking into account IPCC's views and recommendations? Accountability is the order of the day now, otherwise the image of all disciplined services will eventually be tarnished. Surveys reveal that the image of the Police Force has been seriously dented over the past few LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9399 years. In addition to the lawbreaking acts committed by some unethical police officers, the face-saving culture in Police Force also seems to be a problem, and they have even held a rally where they claimed that they had done nothing wrong. Frankly, it is only natural for various departments or even Members of the Legislative Council to err, and everyone has to be held accountable. Even if the performance is not satisfactory, an improvement mechanism can serve as a solution. Yet they do not have such a mechanism in place.
(THE CHAIRMAN resumed the Chair)
What is the opinion of IPCC? I noticed that in its 2016-2017 report, it suggested that the Police enhance the existing procedures for handling mentally incapacitated persons. We cannot say that it was fruitless in the end because a measure known as the Care Card Scheme was introduced. But then in February 2018, there came the Tai Wai case involving a person with mental problems who was subject to inappropriate treatment by the Police. Hence, in addition to improvement measures, sometimes the actual ability of frontline police officers to handle such cases is also important, and the provision of training is even more so.
IPCC also publishes periodic newsletters and annual reports to follow up on issues. But every case followed up will often see no further development. In my view, since they have both ends and means with public funding allocated, and that IPCC has also made a number of recommendations on improvement, IPCC should seek to continuously follow up on the situation and proactively set up an improvement system.
The original intent of establishing IPCC back then was to regulate the discipline of police officers, while seeking to prevent abuse of police power. I think a failure to reform the functions of IPCC will render it unable to give play to its proper role in future. It has no investigative power, decision-making power or punitive power, nor can it receive complaints directly. In other words, as I said earlier, cases must be referred by the Complaints Against Police Office ("CAPO"). I see no reason why there should be such a mechanism in the first place, and it is still accepted by people today. Members of the public can lodge a complaint to IPCC direct. Why must a referral be made by CAPO? We should not forget that CAPO and IPCC were once divided over the conclusion of a certain complaint case against police officers. As an independent regulatory 9400 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 body, it should be empowered to receive cases independently. But still, that is not what happens now. I think it is time IPCC reviewed its functions. While such a system has been in place for some time, its limited functions are obvious to all. Without reform, its role will just be limited after all.
I also expect IPCC to, with an increase of more than 20% in its estimate in the coming year, achieve some progress in the following tasks: first, recommending a direction for future reform of IPCC to effectively follow up on abuse of police power; second, giving an open account of the recommendations made to the Police every year with specific details about the accepted and rejected items, continuously following up on the rejected ones and certainly, acknowledging those accepted ones; third, continuously following up on past recommendations, instead of treating IPCC's newsletters as magazines for publishing new cases one after another because what we wish to see are not necessarily new cases, but accomplishments; fourth, conducting random checks on cases, particularly because we have found a number of questionable bind-over cases, which have also been mentioned in IPCC's newsletters. What improvement has been made finally? Fifth, reference should be drawn from the practice of IPCC of the United Kingdom, so that IPCC can directly transfer cases to the prosecuting authorities for them to decide whether or not to initiate prosecution. These are my views on IPCC, and I personally consider it fairly important to reform the functions of IPCC, and additional funding alone is not enough.
Next, I am going to talk about another department, namely "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". Which aspects of the Student Finance Office should be improved? Is it not a good thing to offer financial assistance to students? First of all, we have to talk about the Caring and Sharing Scheme rolled out by Financial Secretary Paul CHAN last year, under which $4,000 would be disbursed. Disbursement has now started, and the Working Family Allowance Office ("WFAO") precisely is responsible for that. Let us look at how well it has performed. Even to this day, during my daily visit to the district, local residents have still been telling us that they have not received the payment of $4,000, asking whether the department is grossly inept.
I have no intention to chastise the frontline staff because those recruited to do such work are also having a hard time, and as reported by the media, they are required to fulfil a quota. Can they actually be excused from fulfilling a quota? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9401
Yesterday when I was distributing leaflets on the street, a local resident also said to me that substantial manpower was required to process the application forms for the disbursement of $4,000, and let us think about the $6,000 handout offered by John TSANG in the past. Did it come with such a complicated mechanism? Did it incur such a high administrative cost? The resident said that since the Government is pinching pennies, it would be better to turn the administrative cost into a cash handout for members of the public. It is such a mess now. Some people submitted the forms just a few days ago, but "last in, first out", while the first batch of applicants have yet to receive such payments. If there is anyone who can follow up on these cases, I am more than welcome. I can refer the large caseload of my district to them.
The Government has indicated its wish to complete the processing of all applications by the end of this year. They may as well say such things to members of the public in the districts and see whether they will get punched. Being made to wait for two years before they can get this sum of $4,000, people are all wondering whether it really takes so long. Certainly, I have to reiterate that I have no intention to chastise the frontline staff. They are having a hard time working in order to fulfil a quota. The ones to blame are actually the Government and Paul CHAN. They have done a poor job in the disbursement arrangements. In retrospect, the $4,000 handout was offered because the Treasury was flooded with money. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen sitting in front of me has made some particularly strong calls. He has been calling for a cash handout year after year. The disbursement arrangements should not be administered in such an awful way, and it is only right for the Government to return wealth to the people. With this experience, the Government should no longer impose a means test. The previous non-means-tested scheme for disbursing the $6,000 handout was efficient and simple, thereby preventing the wastage of substantial manpower on processing the application forms. Cash handouts are supposed to be non-means-tested, so as to address the imminent need of members of the public.
Nevertheless, the reality is that the Government has practised favouritism even in returning wealth to the people. Generous tax rebates and rates waivers are offered to the wealthy class efficiently, while those "N have-nots" and the sandwich class are subject to burdensome procedural hurdles and a multitude of checks that overlap, resulting in slow progress caused by a manpower shortage this time around. In the past, be it the disbursement of $6,000 in Hong Kong or the Wealth Partaking Scheme in Macao―some people also wonder why cash handouts are commonplace in Macao―there was no means test. The 9402 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Government should learn from this experience and cease to adopt such a disbursement mechanism which incurs a high administrative cost due to a multitude of checks.
In addition to the disbursement of $4,000, the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Office is mainly responsible for the Working Family Allowance Scheme ("WFAS"). WFAS was formerly known as the Low-income Working Family Allowance Scheme. When it was launched in 2017, the Government claimed that it could benefit 200 000 households comprising 800 000 persons. According to the bi-annual survey conducted by the Government, only 45 000 applications were recorded from April to October last year, falling far short of the target. The root causes are the extremely harsh working hour and wage requirements imposed on applicants by WFAS. This, coupled with the onerous procedures, has rendered it unable to benefit people who are genuinely in need.
The existing WFAS is a three-tier scheme, under which a Basic Allowance, a Medium Allowance and a Higher Allowance are granted based on working hours, wages and whether applicants are single-parent households. Such a redundant structure is regarded by many as grossly complicated. Also, the monthly working hour requirement for the Higher Allowance is 192 hours. That means a person must work 24 days a month and 8 hours a day in order to be eligible. While the Government has now implemented the initiative of five-day work week, members of the public are incentivized to work overtime under WFAS, which is downright ridiculous. Can it still shamelessly tell us about its sincerity in promoting the implementation of standard and maximum working hours? It is simply unreasonable for the government-launched WFAS to require applicants to work as long as 192 hours.
Moreover, a Child Allowance is granted under WFAS. Applicants with children aged 15 or below will receive an allowance of $1,000. How nice it is for them to get this allowance of $1,000! Applicants will mostly spend this sum of money on children's extra-curricular activities, tuition fees or stationery. But the biggest problem with the Child Allowance is it being tied to working hours. Frankly, I am not saying that the Child Allowance is not good. But if parents are required to work as long as 192 hours, how do they possibly have any time left for their children? They may consider family life a priceless priority that should always come first. Can the system not be designed in such an inhumane way?
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Given the inadequate hours worked, parents are often not granted such allowances, and also denied the Child Allowance. Can we not tell that it is such a ridiculous system design? Should WFAS not be reviewed in order to delink the Child Allowance from working hours? If the scheme seeks to make beneficiaries feel truly pleased, it should not require them to work as long as 192 hours. For example, all students eligible for full grant and half grant of textbook assistance should also be eligible for the Child Allowance. Since they have been disbursed textbook assistance, why should they not be also disbursed the Child Allowance? Grass-roots students should be given more support and resources for diversified development, so that the lives of people and children in different strata will not be worlds apart.
In the final analysis, be it the cash handout or WFAS, it has made ordinary members of the public and the frontline staff of WFAO suffer, only to meet the overlapping requirements under the vetting mechanism of the Government. I hope the Government will heed good advice for its future budgets and streamline the application procedures. A multitude of checks in the name of fiscal prudence will only end up leaving people in need with no support, and members of the public will also grow increasingly unhappy with cash handouts.
In the last few seconds, I wish to point out that among these 33 heads, there are a lot more issues worth discussing. Insofar as vetting is concerned, there are several departments worth discussing. For example, issues relating to the Housing Department can take several hours to discuss. But given the time constraint today, I will stop here. I so submit.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): For starters, I would like to respond to the issue mentioned by Mr AU Nok-hin just now on "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". If Members refer to head 173 in page 897 of the Budget Estimate, the one as thick as a telephone directory, Members will see that the Approved Commitment for Caring and Sharing Scheme ("the Scheme") under Item Code 804 is $11,316 million. The amount spent in the financial year 2018-2019 was merely $70 million, for funds allocated has not yet been spent. Moreover, it is stated in the footnote that: "The Scheme was a budget initiative and the relevant funding was approved through the enactment of the Appropriation Bill 2018.". In other words, the funding for the Scheme is not provided under the estimate this year. I am worried about this. At present, the public are criticizing the authorities for the chaotic 9404 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 arrangement for the disbursement of the $4,000 handout, and some staff members have fallen sick because of work. I am worried about colleagues in the civil service or part-time employees, as hundreds of ballot counters have fallen sick or died in the election in Indonesia. If the Government really lacks funding for administrative expenses, or if it needs to recruit replacement employees to handle work entailed by the Caring and Sharing Scheme, I really hope that the authorities will boldly submit a funding application to the Legislative Council. I have heard certain Members from the pro-democracy camp express disapproval of the distribution of the $4,000 handout by the Government and their support of the authorities for not giving any handout this year. Yet, it is a matter of perspective.
First, I would like to add a few comments about the issue concerning Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK") which I mentioned in the previous round. As a number of Honourable colleagues have pointed out the problems concerned, I need not spend time elucidating the case. Yet, I have to pass some fair comments about RTHK. In the Audit Report published by the Audit Commission at the end of last year, it is pointed out that the viewership of RTHK is on the low side and the number of listeners of certain radio channels is on decline. I cannot blame the Audit Commission for taking the perspective of value for money, for it is the approach it adopts in auditing and they are just being honest. For instance, they pointed out that Channel 31 of RTHK had an average viewership rating of merely 0.1 point, which is 6 400 viewers, in the first half of 2018. I worry that the rating will drop further this year as Channel 31 began 24-hour broadcasting in this April. As the broadcasting hours of the Channel used to be 6:00 am to 1:00 am, the average viewership will definitely drop when it operates 24-hour broadcasting now. This prompt us to query whether or not RTHK can cope with the work of the two television channels given the existing resources and whether it has the capability to undertake this huge task. Should we return to square one where RTHK produces a large number of quality programmes to be broadcast in acquired time slots on specific free or pay television channels, and whether such an arrangement will bring better effects? Take the programme City Forum as an example. In the past, the programme was broadcast on TVB at noon. Now, the programme is broadcast on RTHK channel. In terms of viewership, which arrangement is higher? Certainly, it is really difficult to confirm today, for many people may watch the programme on different news channels or live broadcast on the Internet.
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Hence, for a radio station or a media organization adopting the traditional operation mode of a television station, it will be incomprehensive to assess its performance using the value for money criterion. RTHK uses its resources to produce City Forum to be broadcast on Channel 31, but since the coverage may not include all the people of Hong Kong, the viewership will be affected. Moreover, the pageviews of the RTHK website has decreased by 45% in three years to 2.8 million views in June 2018, which is a question about dedicated page. For instance, in the past, Members might set up their personal web page, but now Members will not invest in this aspect. Nowadays, people have access to different brands and organizations and may use certain dedicated pages of the social media, such as Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and so on. I do not know if Donald TRUMP has set up his personal page "Trump.com", for people will only browse his Twitter.
It is true that we should fully utilize our resources. This problem is not unique to RTHK but is also affecting other government departments. All government departments have their websites, yet apart from the website of the Hong Kong Observatory, the pageviews of the websites of other government departments are decreasing. I often browse the website of the Legislative Council, yet I do not know whether or not the people of Hong Kong will also do so. The public are not unconcerned about these organizations, yet they may gain understanding of these organizations through other application software or dedicated pages of the social media.
Moreover, it is pointed out in the audit report that the number of listeners of four of the seven channels of the RTHK radio station has decreased. However, this is not a problem faced by RTHK only but all radio stations, including commercial radio stations. Since RTHK is subject to value for money assessment, it has to submit survey on audience rating. Nowadays, commercial radio stations no longer conduct these surveys, for the audience rating is so low that they dare not show the findings to their clients when they do marketing. Nowadays, people will use the number of "Like" received in such media as Facebook and Instagram, and so on, for promotion. In fact, the audience rating and viewership of both commercial and public radio stations and television stations are on decline. Currently, the highest viewership of TVB is merely 27 or 28 points. When I hosted a programme in Asia Television Limited, the highest viewership was only 18 points. What a wild dream today to achieve this rating? Times have changed and we cannot criticize RTHK from this perspective.
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Yet, should RTHK undergo transformation and stop taking up two television channels by adopting the traditional mode and broadcasting images similar to those recorded by closed-circuit television round the clock? I think this is worthy of exploration. RTHK requires a broadcasting house for programme production, and I give my agreement to this. Take some of the public television stations in Taiwan as an example. They may produce drama series for broadcast on the HBO channel upon completion. Is it possible for RTHK to adopt this approach? It may be possible. If the programmes are of good quality, they may be broadcast on Netflix and HBO channels, which may generate profits. I am not optimistic about RTHK, as a government department, being able to do so with its existing resources. Yet, why can the public television stations in Taiwan do so? Hence, public channels may not necessarily fail to produce award-winning programmes competitive in the private market and with market value.
Next, I will talk about "Head 80―Judiciary" and "Head 94―Legal Aid Department", which some Members have mentioned earlier. We consider that the funding for the Judiciary should be raised to enhance its efficiency in disposal of cases. The programme of the Judiciary includes two parts: Programme (1) is Courts, Tribunals and Various Statutory Functions and Programme (2) is Support Services for Courts' Operation. In the estimate for the year 2019-2020, the funding for the Judiciary is 17.3% higher than the previous financial year. It is evident that the Government is willing to invest in the Judiciary to enable the Judiciary to process the trials expeditiously without delay and ensure that cases are disposed of justly.
Yet, it is strange that the revised expenditure estimate for the previous financial year, 2018-2019, was 5.8% lower than the original estimate for courts of the Judiciary. For this reason, the increase this year is set at 17.3% to make up for the previous decrease. Why would the expenditure drop 5.8%? To my understanding, though I have not checked with the Judiciary, the decrease may be the result of the inadequate number of Judges recruited. The Judiciary plans to recruit Judges in the previous financial year but since the number of Judges recruited is short of the target, the funding provided has not been fully utilized, resulting in the discrepancy between the revised estimate and the original estimate. Is the 5.8% discrepancy significant? It can be regarded as significant. Certainly, I support the funding proposal for this year.
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I would like to make special mention of one of the tribunals under the Judiciary―the Obscene Articles Tribunal ("OAT"). OAT has been subject to criticisms for quite some time. The Commerce and Economic Development Bureau should bear the blame for this, and I will elucidate my point about this when I talk about the amendment concerning the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau. Now, I will focus on OAT. In fact, in 2015, the Government reviewed the Control of Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance ("the Ordinance"), where the relevant proposals had been passed by the Executive Council and submitted to the Legislative Council. Nonetheless, there was no follow-up. To date, nothing has been done by the Government. After that came the farce at the book fair last year, where Haruki Murakami's novel Kishidancho Goroshi, or Killing Commendatore, was classified as "Class II―indecent materials" which requires to be wrapped in plastic cover. It becomes a laughing stock in the international community. This year's book fair is round the corner, yet the problems have not yet been solved and the existing Ordinance cannot deal with the situation.
In 2015, the Government proposed abolishing the administrative function of OAT whilst leaving it to be responsible for judicial determination only, and also increasing the number of adjudicators at each hearing from two to four to enhance the representativeness of the determination. Moreover, the appeal mechanism is problematic. Yet, I will not go into the details here. At the meeting of the Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting to be held this Friday, there is an item designated for a discussion on the Ordinance. Nonetheless, after reading the documents provided by the Government, I am disappointed for despite the great effort made previously, the problems we raised remain to be addressed. Besides, the authorities keep making changes and retracting their decisions. Take the number of adjudicators as an example. The Judiciary originally proposed increasing the number from 500 to 1 500 persons, for an expanded pool has the merit of averting the scenario where all adjudicators are moral defenders. If 400 out of the 500 persons in the pool are moral defenders, they will most likely be selected irrespective of the approach of drawing lots and the standard adopted for adjudication will be very stringent. Do Members know which kind of persons earnestly want to be adjudicators? They are either people who desire to watch controversial productions or people who have a sense of mission to be the gatekeeper of moral standard. Hence, given a larger pool, the chances of these persons being selected by drawing lots will be balanced out. Regrettably, the Judiciary retracted this proposal 9408 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 eventually. Now, it says that it is unnecessary to have a pool of 1 500 persons and proposes that 750 persons is adequate, and it says the decision is based on the number of cases involved.
Regarding the number of cases, it is also strange. According to the estimate of the Government, that is the Budget Estimate as thick as a telephone directory, the number of cases handled by OAT was 174 in 2017. Yet, the number surged to 9 240 in 2018. It is really puzzling. It should be that two of the cases involved a large number of articles, and OAT had to deal with 9 000-odd additional cases. As the number of cases was merely 174 last year, the sudden surge to 9 000-odd cases this year will make it really difficult for the Judiciary in resource deployment. Yet, above all, the Ordinance must be effective for us to offer funding to that judicial institution, and only this will achieve the purpose.
Now, I would like to talk about "Head 94―Legal Aid Department". The estimate of the Legal Aid Department ("LAD") this year has been increased significantly. As for the major programme which includes processing legal aid applications, the relevant estimate has been increased by 7.3%. Another programme is on litigation services. This is the most practical one and the estimate this year has been increased by 48.2%, a significant increase in estimate for legal aid services. Yet, we noticed there is a backlog of cases. Take civil cases as an example. LAD has provided the number of active cases as at the end of year, which is around 17 000 cases every year. In other words, LAD has to work harder to process these cases
At present, any amendment may be related to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance. If the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") is passed, more people will have to face legal challenges and they may be extradited to the Mainland or overseas to face lawsuits. I do not know if LAD has the resources and whether it is ready to face such challenges. Mr Dennis KWOK's earlier remark put it most aptly. He said if the people of Hong Kong were rich, they might take the case to court. And if they were poor, they could apply for legal aid. Yet, for the middle class, they do not know what they can do. Hence, I consider it necessary to review the threshold for application for legal aid. This is particularly so upon the passage of the Bill, for many people liable to extradition LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9409 will be from the middle class. As their name suggests, they will be left in the middle of nowhere, and the key to the protection of their legal rights lies in their access to legal aid.
When the Government introduces such a controversial law, it must provide adequate supporting and assisting measures. After the Bill comes into effect, people who are not involved in legal litigation previously may now be involved. The Government says that they may employ lawyers and apply for legal aid, yet it has not given any regard to their eligibility for applying for legal aid. Should the Government review the legal aid arrangement? We should pay attention to this point (The buzzer sounded) …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, please stop speaking.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): I would like to talk about another department in this speech, which is the primary health care service of the Department of Health ("DH"). It happens that Secretary Prof Sophia CHAN is here today so that she can listen to my speech. Great. In fact, both the Democratic Party and I are very concerned about the promotion of primary health care, simply because Hong Kong now faces an ageing population such that the recurrent expenditure on health care is ever-increasing, surging from $40 billion to $50 billion initially to some $70 billion nowadays, a figure which is extremely astonishing. Compared with the promotion of primary health care, the Government has placed particular emphasis on strengthening hospital services, therefore leading to the significant increase in health care expenditure. I wonder if the Secretary has examined carefully whether such an approach is really cost-effective.
We can see that providing treatment for patients has all along been the priority of the hospital services in Hong Kong in the past few decades―an attitude which is recognized by society. As for the work on the so-called "prevention is better than cure" aspect, it is often regarded as the least important in the entire health care system―I dare not say this is a formal policy, but relatively speaking, it is treated as the least important―and such a tendency is observed in both resource allocation and service delivery. Furthermore, DH used to be in charge of both general outpatient services and specialist outpatient 9410 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 services in the past, and the division of labour was very clear. DH had full grasp of frontline information from general outpatient services and specialist outpatient services, and its main responsibility was to act as a gatekeeper of the first-line primary health care services. Yet, the times have changed, and now the Hospital Authority ("HA") has taken up all of such work, whereas specialist outpatient services and general outpatient services, etc. are basically the responsibilities of HA presently. As a result, the role and positioning of DH is vague nowadays. On matters relating to public health, DH seems to perform the role of a law enforcement agency responsible for policy enforcement. To a certain extent, after the authorities have taken away the functions of DH in providing direct services such as outpatient services and replace them with law enforcement work, a leading entity is now missing in the overall work on primary health care, and the problems of primary health care precisely lie in here. Obviously, the Government has assigned the work on primary health care to DH, but through the said process, the relevant work of the leading entity in respect of primary health care has been gradually taken away, or the relevant work has been made the secondary responsibility of DH. From this we can see that whilst the SAR Government claims to promote primary health care, actually it has not adopted a truly effective way to deal with the problems.
Whenever I argued with the Secretary about problems concerning primary health care in the past few years, she would always bring up the concept of community health centres, pointing out that the authorities would draw reference from the practice of the Kwai Tsing District Council in the future, under which a non-governmental organization ("NGO") is engaged to provide integrated health care services to serve as a model of primary health care services. I wonder if this is the direction for the development of primary health care as envisaged by the Secretary, and if this is so, I would be rather disappointed. The work on primary health care has all along been under the charge of DH, which is a government department, but its functions have gradually shifted to performing mainly enforcement work from providing an array of clinical services and frontline services such as outpatient services in the past. The Bureau then took a step further by handing over the relevant frontline outpatient services or the so-called frontline primary health care services to NGOs, an approach which I consider irresponsible.
Second, we all know that if primary health care can be provided in the frontline as early as possible, this can in fact help patients to identify their problems earlier―I must emphasize "early identification" here, as it is exactly the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9411 most important concept of primary health care. Patients might not have to suffer from terminal cancer if they can identify their problems earlier. The Colorectal Cancer Screening Programme currently implemented by the Administration is precisely founded on the relevant concept. Should such kind of work be further developed and promoted? Should a proper executive arm be made responsible for the relevant promotion work? Should the Government continue to rely on HA in carrying out the relevant work? If it is the latter, I think HA already has its own work focus, that is, the provision of hospital services. If the Government also requests HA to take up the work on primary health care, making it responsible for various screening and other tasks, is this a good match and desirable approach? I very much doubt it. Therefore, I hope the Secretary can pay attention to the problems concerning DH that I have raised in this speech.
In addition, I have chatted with some frontline DH doctors, and they also indicated that even they were not sure about the role and functions of DH. Should doctors employed by the Bureau act in accordance with the vision of "offering help to others and saving those in danger" instilled in them when they received training, or should they treat themselves as law enforcement officers of DH, which is a law enforcement agency? If DH doctors hold the latter attitude, the medical training process will then be a waste. One should know that the entire medical training is aimed at saving lives, but the work focus of DH is not so. From another perspective, this is also a waste of our valuable medical students, making them unable to apply what they have learnt and fulfil their inherent social responsibilities. I wonder if the Secretary has seriously thought about this waste.
What is more, DH originally has a very good department to deal with the most important element of primary health care―family medicine. If the training in family medicine is handled by DH, there will be a clearer division of labour. The Secretary often emphasizes that one of the key components of promotion of primary health care is to publicize the concept of family medicine for wider acceptance, that is, to encourage members of the public to establish a close relationship with their family doctor. By understanding their family medical history and paying attention to personal living habits, they can understand their own health condition and identify diseases at an early stage. However, the promotion of family medicine is now handled by HA. As we can see, the workload and stress of HA are rather heavy already. In this way, how can the objective of promoting primary health care and family medicine by one single dedicated agency be realized? I have grave misgivings about that.
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The Secretary once remarked on another occasion that a committee was currently conducting a study on primary health care. I do not know when the results of the relevant study will be released. Yet, both the SAR Government and the former colonial government have studied the issue of primary health care, which was discussed in the "Rainbow Document" published in the 1990s and the "Scott Report" published at an even earlier time. In last year's Policy Address, Carrie LAM also indicated that she fully agreed that primary health care was an extremely crucial element. That said, such an important policy element is not implemented by a reasonable executive arm―DH is the most reasonable executive arm in my opinion.
Let me cite another example to reveal how serious the problems with primary health care are. One of the initiatives adopted by the Government to promote primary health care is to set up an Elderly Health Centre ("EHC") in each of the 18 districts. As far as I understand it, EHCs regularly conduct basic body check-ups for elderly people with a view to enabling early identification of possible major changes in their physical or health conditions, which is consistent with the function of primary health care that I mentioned earlier. Let me quote some figures here: As of 2018, 47 710 elderly people in total have enrolled as members of EHCs, among which the number of new members is some 16 000. As we can see, those who are fortunate enough to receive EHC services only account for an extremely small proportion when compared with the elderly population in Hong Kong. I wonder if the Government has any plans to further expand this service.
The significant change in the waiting time for EHC services in recent years is another point I must raise here. Of course, overall speaking, the waiting time is still in months at present, and it seems that the situation is rather satisfactory. Yet, whilst an elderly person can enrol as a member of EHC after waiting for five-odd months in 2016, the waiting time was 6.8 months in 2017; whilst in 2018, the waiting time lengthened to 12.3 months. I wonder if such changes are closely related to the pace of our ageing population. If this is the case, it implies that the waiting time might be getting longer and longer. Should the Government not make every endeavour to meet the relevant demand for EHC as well?
Apart from elderly people, what about the health of women and men? Is the Government ignoring them completely, just relying on their voluntary initiative to receive body check-ups? Or should the Government not intervene LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9413 in some ways to encourage them to seek the relevant services? For instance, we can offer a "heath care voucher" to them every five or seven years to encourage them to receive health examinations, and outpatient services can be arranged to follow up the results of such examinations, so as to help members of the public to understand their health condition.
These services are indeed not expensive. At present, a body check-up, even for a very comprehensive one, would only cost $1,000-odd in the market. The Government can consider offering a health care voucher to members of the public every five years after they have reached the age of 35 or 40, with the aim of encouraging them to receive health examinations, and doctors can be arranged to follow up the reports of the relevant health examinations, so as to assist members of the public in managing their health information properly. The relevant information of body check-ups can also be stored in the existing Electronic Health Record Sharing System ("eHRSS"). Even if members of the public have to receive other health care services, the relevant information concerning their basic health status and health reports can also be used for reference. Doctors can also obtain more information in making diagnoses. This approach can serve multiple purposes, a method achieving a lot at one stroke. Has the Government ever considered carrying out such work? I find this kind of work very cost-effective. Imagine if members of the public have understood their health status at a younger stage, it is more likely that they can then take good care of their physical conditions and adjust their diet, making themselves healthier to cope with life in their later years.
This is also the case for dental check-ups. Dental services are provided to a very limited extent at present. The number of attendance of government dental services is only 20 000 to 30 000 in 2018-2019. Yet, we all know that if one can form the habit of receiving scaling and dental check-ups as early as possible, our teeth can actually be very durable. Healthy teeth are vitally beneficial to the overall health of our people in their later years. Therefore, I hope that the Secretary would consider seriously whether the functions and roles of DH should be expanded to make it the direct executive arm of primary health care services … (The buzzer sounded) … with a view to improving primary health care services.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU, please stop speaking.
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MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): When we have something to say, we can always find the opportunity to do so. I am already speaking for the third time. Chairman, I actually have a wish in my heart, which is having an opportunity to speak in the Chamber for hours. I am most eager to do so. I hope one day there will finally be such room for me to fulfil this wish.
Secretary Prof Sophia CHAN happens to be present now. Although I am going to talk about the Correctional Services Department ("CSD") in this session, I would also like to speak on the Department of Health ("DH") in passing. I wonder if her subordinates have communicated with her. In fact, I am quite concerned about quarantine at the boundary control points. I have some worries about this. For example, some frontline officers responsible for quarantine at the control points have told me that the situations of and remunerations for outsourced service contractors and companies directly hired by DH differ. We feel concerned because DH should, as far as possible, hire more staff and try not to outsource its work. Moreover, sometimes outsourced workers may not be able to provide sufficient services.
For example, owing to manpower deployment, there may not be enough staff at certain posts. Hence, the direct employees of HD have told me that they actually bear a heavy responsibility because people having a fever or a flu may pass the checkpoints owing to a lack of monitoring efforts, which may lead to trouble. Certainly, I wish to have an exchange with the Secretary on the details. I have also relayed this matter to the officers of the Centre for Health Protection, hoping that the shortage of staff stationed at the posts and the difference in remunerations can be gradually improved. At this juncture, if I am a Member―of course I am a Member―if I have such power, and if DH needs more funds in this respect, I certainly wish to grant it more funds. But I am helpless. The Rules of Procedure do not allow us to do so.
In this session, I wish to talk about CSD. In my first speech, I said that during my duty visit to CSD, some officers had said that they really would wish me to reflect the problem of occasional water leakages in their quarters and various problems with a lot of fixtures inside. However, a particular point about this year is that no one has proposed any amendment in respect of CSD. Yet in 2018, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen and I proposed three amendments, including the request for cutting the salary of the Commissioner of Correctional Services, the one for cutting the funding for the replacement and enhancement of the closed-circuit television ("CCTV") system in Pik Uk Prison, and the one for LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9415 cutting the funding for the replacement of intercom recording systems in visit rooms in correctional institutions. Although there is no amendment seeking to reduce the expenditure of CSD this year, I believe many Members have views on how CSD can do better. I think Mr SHIU Ka-chun is the most suitable man to debate this question. In my view, Mr SHIU Ka-chun should be given the opportunity to participate in this debate session.
We have noticed that the expenditure estimate of CSD for Programme (1) "Prison Management" exceeds $3 billion, reaching $3,103.9 million in 2019-2020, whereas that for Programme (2) "Re-integration" is $1,124.6 million. The ratio of the estimates for the two programmes alone can already fully reflect that it attaches greater importance to punishment than correction. What is meant by attaching greater importance to punishment than correction? Now there are many new gimmicks in the development of CSD. One of them is called smart prison. The word "smart" is added to a lot of things. For example, things related to innovation and technology or information technology would be described as "smart". Mr KWONG Chun-yu may also be named Mr "Smart Chun-yu". In this way, he may turn out to be better versed in computing and more awesome.
However, the increase in the estimate for prison management is largely attributable to the implementation of these initiatives, since CSD said it needs to make use of technology to improve prison facilities. Nowadays, once the word "smart" is added, we would have jumped onto the bandwagon of the general trend. The Policy Address mentioned the introduction of "smart prisons". It refers to the use of biometrics, smart wristbands indicating health signs and image analysis systems adopting the facial recognition technology in prisons to keep watch on prisoners. Telling from this trend, the number of projects to be implemented by CSD in the name of technology in the coming years will only keep increasing.
Nevertheless, as a matter of fact, now many prison facilities are rather old. Sometimes during our visit, some officers would tell us: firstly, as mentioned just now, there is the problem of water leakage in quarters. Secondly, the meals for the staff and those for prisoners are not much different. We pointed out the deficiency of its facilities, but then it suddenly talked about the introduction of smart prisons to draw the attention of the media. Its public image seems to have improved, but the fact is that it does not even have a complete system for electronic gates. Sometimes I wonder, in drawing up the expenditure estimates, 9416 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 should CSD not at least think about how to improve its facilities, rather than coming up with these new gimmicks? I particularly wish to bring up two items which will be implemented in 2019-2020, namely, the CCTV system and the electric locks security system ("ELSS").
In January this year, the Panel on Security discussed the CCTV system, i.e. item 810 "Installation of electric locks security system in Pik Uk Correctional Institution" mentioned by me just now, involving a financial provision of $219.4 million. After the installation of ELSS equipped with the facial recognition function, the staff will have no need to use any keys to open or lock the gates. It includes the installation of about 380 gates with electric locks, about 960 CCTV cameras, around 480 intercoms and electro-mechanical locking devices. However, the relevant provision was included in the Appropriation Bill 2019 submitted to the Legislative Council for approval. In other words, it is handled in a bundle. I do not have any other choice. I can only express my views on ELSS.
I have noticed that ELSS was jointly designed by CSD and the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department. It is not a simple procurement from the outside. Neither is there any overseas experience or test available as reference. When I prepared questions in respect of the Budget, I particularly asked in Reply Serial No. SB183 how they could ensure the stability of such a unique system created by themselves and how they would address emergencies in the event of power failure. Surprisingly, the first sentence of the reply of CSD reads: "ELSS has a highly reliable design." How highly reliable is it, and how will malfunction be handled? In the event of malfunction, how can the lock be opened? It said: "In the event of a total system failure, correctional officers may maintain basic operation by using back-up keys in the same manner as the existing routine operation." Such is the defence for this ELSS costing $220 million.
Punishment in prisons per se is restriction of freedom, but it does not include restriction of human rights and the basic rights of prisoners. I have all along been concerned about whether the security facilities in correctional institutions have excessively interfered with the rights of prisoners. In recent years, CSD has received several provisions of large amounts. Examples are items 806, 807, 808 and 809, installing more than 1 600 additional CCTV cameras in four institutions. Indeed, many of the existing old CCTV cameras have a narrower field of view, and there is the need to install new ones. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9417
Otherwise the relevant situations cannot be recorded, and when there is any dispute, there will be no way to verify the truth. However, can the installation of additional CCTV cameras cover all the blind spots? I have raised questions about the blind spots regarding abuse of power, such as the fingerprint rooms where prisoners are unreasonably requested to undergo a strip search and kneel down to be checked. Will CCTV cameras be installed at these places, too? We must get to the bottom of the matter and ask about the necessity to cover these places. Otherwise problems will easily arise at these places.
However, when I asked CSD these questions, they still refused to install any camera on the grounds of protecting the privacy of persons in custody being searched in the Searching Room. But these are exactly the places where they may abuse their power. Hence this is not a question about protection of privacy. So this is actually putting the cart before the horse. Is improving the culture of correctional services not the most important job of CSD? Otherwise, if a CSD officer really evades an CCTV and inflicts extrajudicial punishment, how can it be proved? How can the prisoners complain?
Last year, the Complaints Investigation Unit conducted 81 inquiries, 30% less than the number in the year before last, which was 123. Among the 98 cases referred to the Complaints Committee for consideration, only two were "substantiated". In other words, such cases were few and far between. Three cases were "substantiated other than reported". One was "not fully substantiated". That means part of the case was proved to be true, but not the whole case could be substantiated. Six CSD officers were involved. I wish to emphasize that the proportion of cases "substantiated" was unreasonably small. Moreover, CSD would not take the initiative to provide the reasons and justifications for non-substantiation when a complaint was found non-substantiated. All such circumstances have illustrated that the prisons in Hong Kong still fall short of the requirements in the Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners promulgated by the United Nations in 1955.
This year, as indicated by the information of the Research Office of the Legislative Council, the structure of correctional services in Hong Kong lacks checks and balances. In Canada, the Office of the Correctional Investigator is an independent organization which can proactively initiate investigations into non-complaint cases. Complaints may not necessarily be lodged by the persons involved, and complaint cases on which no resolution can be reached will be referred to the Minister of Public Safety. In Ireland, complaints will be 9418 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 categorized according to their severity and handled by external investigators appointed. An independent investigation department has also been put in place in Ireland. Inspectors will inspect the prisons by appointment or on a surprise basis. An inspection will last not less than two days, during which they will meet with prisoners and the management, and they can also have access to the documents. Despite the provision of more than $3.1 billion for prison management, CSD did not deal with the question of how to establish a monitoring mechanism. It cannot even answer whether CCTVs will be installed at places where problems may arise. Regarding the locations where it does not wish to install CCTVs, it talks about the need to protect privacy, whereas regarding the locations where it wants to do so, it requests so much funding. How can this be right?
Lastly, I wish to present my views on one item, i.e. the work on "Re-integration" under Programme (2) of CSD. "Matters Requiring Special Attention in 2019-20" includes: "develop rehabilitation strategies and re-integration programmes in consultation with the Committee on Community Support for Rehabilitated Offenders". I have asked CSD a question concerning the statistics on the applications made under the Release Under Supervision Scheme and the Pre-release Employment Scheme in accordance with Section 7 of the Prisoners (Release under Supervision) Ordinance. According to Reply Serial No. SB182, the number of applications received in 2018-2019 was 59, of which 20 was approved―only 20―I have also noticed that this number of approvals is the lowest in five years. In comparison, in 2015-2016 there were 93 applications, of which 41 were approved. The number at that time was double.
I wonder why the number of applications approved has dropped year on year. There may be many reasons. For example, the plans written by the prisoners in explaining their applications was not good enough. Today many Justices of the Peace and Honourable Members are present in the Chamber. Many of you, who are honourable, would often visit the prisons. Those who are Justices of the Peace would have more opportunities to visit the prisons and show concern to the prisoners about their well-being. However, have you ever heard of a Chinese jargon in prisons called "舉爬" (raising hands with consequences)? That means when you inspect a prison, if a prisoner raises his hand to you, it is very likely that he will have to bear some consequences because the CSD officers or people present may consider him doing something extraordinary in order to catch attention, thus leading to many consequences. Has anyone ever looked into these questions?
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Many people wish to apply for early release during their sentence, but the difficulty faced by them is not only meeting the senior officers and the Board. It is not only looking for employers and seeking prominent persons in society to write reference letters. They also have to pluck up their courage to reintegrate into a society which may not be very inclusive to them―each year, this society is only willing to accept 20 prisoners to rehabilitate and rejoin the workforce. They are facing such a system. I sincerely hope that CSD can consider increasing the estimate for Programme (2). But more importantly, it must spend more time on assisting prisoners in rehabilitation. For this reason, Members of the pro-democracy camp have written the "Proposal on Improving Prisoners' Rights and Prison Environment in Hong Kong". I also hope that despite the repeated refusals by the Commissioner of Correctional Services to meet with Members, he will draw reference from this report and improve the prison environment. Only then will Commissioner WOO Ying-ming be worthy of his annual salary of $3 million.
I so submit.
MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): Chairman, this time, I will first speak on "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong" and "Head 25―Architectural Services Department".
Regarding "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong", I have heard Mr CHAN Chi-chuen speak on this twice, so I will just add some points briefly. I recall that at an earlier meeting of the Panel, we discussed the development of Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"). At that time, Mrs Regina IP's attitude towards RTHK was less than courteous. She seemingly considered that RTHK merely needed to broadcast some simple content and would not need much funding. I pointed out in response that RTHK was actually playing the role of a stabilizer facilitating the sustained development of the press, for RTHK being a public organization might provide a relatively stable working environment and resources for the production of a variety of programmes. As mentioned by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen earlier, considerable changes are taking place in the ecology of media currently, commercial media may close down anytime and they will not allocate resources for overseas interviews. Against this background, RTHK's mission has become all the more important.
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I would like to make a further point here that the Government needs not often regard RTHK as an organization causing troubles and embarrassments to the Government and Beijing, as if it is rearing a dog to bite itself. Certainly, RTHK enjoys editorial independence and oversees the Government. Indeed, it does not merely oversee the Hong Kong Government but also the Beijing Government, and it does all good and no harm to the Government. I have paid special attention to the recent reporting work of RTHK. Take a programme on its English Channel as an example. Reporters have been sent to Kazakhstan to interview people who have been detained in the education camp in Xijiang and asked them to describe the conditions in the camp. Moreover, recently, the episode on "116 Vanished Cases" ("消失的116") of Hong Kong Connection ("鏗 鏘集") was broadcast. The episode examines whether the number of cases of injury at work in the Shatin to Central Link project of the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") has been suppressed deliberately to win awards. In fact, to the Hong Kong Government, as well as the Central Authorities, monitoring efforts in these aspects are very important. Regarding the work in this aspect, any government with breath of mind should encourage such efforts.
What do I mean? I am saying that RTHK may have more room to bring its strengths into full play. I notice that under Programme (2) Public Affairs and General Television Programme, as mentioned by some Honourable colleagues earlier, the estimate this year is reduced by 2% in comparison with the revised estimate for 2018-2019. Some people may think that the estimate is reduced by 2% because the authorities have not set a new target for RTHK and consider it better for RTHK to cut its work and confine its development. In my view, some of the topics may be of concern or enormously important to the public, yet these topics may not be confined to issues concerning Hong Kong, whereas problems concerning climate change and climate disasters are some examples. In fact, these are significant incidents, and we notice that the Government also wishes the public to pay more attention to these issues. Yet, in the case of Hong Kong, these climate disasters will occur once a year at worst. For instance, during summer, we will have typhoons like Mangkhut. By then, there will be reports about these issues. Yet, reports of this kind may not heighten the alertness of the public and remind them of the many climate disasters happening worldwide, so that they will make a determined effort in addressing the problem of global warming.
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From these perspectives, I think RTHK may lead the people of Hong Kong to go global to places like the North Pole, Africa or South Asia where very serious climate disasters have occurred recently. By means of interviews on the spot and the production of features, the many facets of these problems are presented before the people of Hong Kong vividly. These programmes will facilitate the Government in bringing to the forefront topics of great significance which have not yet caught the attention of the public. In this way, RTHK is more than a public organization reporting issues concerning Hong Kong and regions in its vicinity, as it can be elevated to a platform which has a role to play in regional news. Certainly, the budget thus incurred will be greater than the existing estimate, yet I hope the Government will have such vision in policy formulation.
The other head which I would like to discuss is the Architectural Services Department ("ArchSD"). If the public have paid attention to this in recent years, they may have noticed that ArchSD has made considerable efforts in introducing new concepts or different architectural styles in public buildings. For instance, I very much appreciate the inclusive playground in Tuen Mun Park built jointly by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department and ArchSD, for it has incorporated many visions and concepts into the public architecture in Hong Kong. Despite the commendation to ArchSD, many phenomena in recent years have really begged worries. The quality of public buildings is a case in point. Recently, I learnt from the news that several projects of ArchSD were revealed by the media to have quality problems. These projects include the Hong Kong Velodrome at Tsueng Kwan O, which was criticized by the Audit Commission at the end of 2018. The venue was completed only four-odd years ago, yet there were 230-odd cases of water seepage, and the latest seepage even obliged the "Cycling Queen of Ngau Tau Kok Lower Estate" Sarah LEE to help with the cleaning. The water seepage at the Hong Kong Velodrome will not merely cause inconvenience to the audience or make them wet but may result in casualties anytime when the cycling speed in competition is as high as 60 kph to 70 kph. Regarding the 200-odd cases of water seepage at the Hong Kong Velodrome, what has gone wrong? The current presentation of ArchSD is ambiguous and we have no way to find out what happened in the beginning.
The second case of a similar nature is the Leisure and Cultural Building next to the MTR Station of the West Rail Line at Tin Shui Wai. The media discovered in March this year that scaffoldings had been put up for large-scale repairs work even though the building has been in used for just a few years. 9422 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
When the reporter visited there for checks, it was found that water was dripping from holes on the roof of the library which needed to be collected in buckets and efflorescence occurred on stairs with white fluid coming out and resulting in loose tiles. At present, the building is under large-scale repairs. The so-called "remedial works" is carried out by the China State Construction Engineering (Hong Kong) Limited. The building only commenced operation in 2013, yet in 2019, the authorities have to commission the construction contractor of the building to carry out "remedial words". It is really strange. Some architectural experts told the reporter that in general circumstances, water seepage of this severity would only occur 20 to 30 years after completion. ArchSD is in charge of the project of the Leisure and Cultural Building at Tin Shui Wai and the building has won a design award. Unfortunately, it is a "tofu-dreg" project. I am not sure if I can say so, yet it is at least kind of shoddy works.
The latest example is the East Kowloon Cultural Centre at Ngau Tau Kok. Leighton Contractors (Asia) Limited is the contractor of the project. Before the completion of the Centre, it was found on 29 April 2019 that five samples of couplers and steel bars failed to meet the required standards. The several incidents mentioned indicate that the authorities often commission the several companies concerned as contractors. Yet, in the engineering sector concerned, there are serious problems with their internal audit and the possibility of corruption. How should ArchSD, as the employer, wrestle with these construction companies in monitoring construction works, so as to ensure that projects costing tens of billions of dollars will not be substandard works and require repairs in just a few years?
Another scope of duty of ArchSD is mentioned under the Brief Description of Programme (1), that is to offer "advice on matters related to built heritage conservation". In this connection, I cannot but ask: What kind of advice has ArchSD offered to the Planning Bureau and the Antiquities and Monuments Office ("AMO")? As seen from the situation in the past couple of years, there were cases of demolition of graded historic buildings every year. The latest examples include the demolition of the Union Church at the Mid-Levels and the Garden Centre in Sham Shui Po. Has ArchSD made its voice heard that these buildings have been graded as historic buildings and made every effort to protect them? Or has it simply played the bystander, thinking that it can do nothing given its junior ranking in the Administration?
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Furthermore, currently, many post-war buildings are facing the fate of demolition. Take the AIA Building in Wanchai as an example. The building was completed 50 years ago. Basically, it can be graded as a historical building or declared monument. Yet, at issue is the attitude of AMO. They seem to think that merely buildings with bricks and tiles or ancient Western architecture should be regarded as historical buildings. Hence, buildings of modern architecture like the AIA Building and the General Post Office in Central will not be brought under protection in general. ArchSD is the expert in this field. Other experts in private practice or in the academic field outside the framework are yelling for help in view of the total lack of conservation of modern architecture in Hong Kong. Has ArchSD expressed its views?
Another example which occurred recently is the Castle Peak Dragon Kiln in Tuen Mun, a Grade III historical building. The semi-circular structure of the kiln which is basically made of bricks is fragile and is used for firing ceramic products. Currently, the demolition of buildings in the vicinity of the kiln has commenced, whereas the construction of two blocks of public housing will be carried out later. At the commencement of the construction works, did ArchSD come forward to state how the case should be handled? Now that two buildings will be built on a site just 20 m away from the kiln, how would the kiln, a Grade III historical building, not be affected? We definitely look forward to the construction of new public housing and the continued enhancement of construction quality and the overall design of the city. Yet, at the same time, regarding the old historical buildings and overall design of the city, ArchSD is duty-bound to offer critical opinions to the Planning Bureau and departments responsible for the conservation of antiquities.
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will make some directional or conceptual comments and criticisms on the Appropriation Bill 2019. The remainder of my speech will focus mainly on head 62 and head 184.
According to the Budget, the estimated annual expenditure on infrastructure in the next few years will increase to more than $100 billion, which is an astonishing figure. As we can see in the Supplement to the Budget, according to the medium range forecast by the Government, the expenditure under the Capital Works Reserve Fund will be increased substantially from approximately $85 billion in 2019-2020 to $147.7 billion in 2022-2023, representing a cumulative increase of 73.5% in four years, which is much higher 9424 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 than the economic growth, inflation rate and the increase rate on any livelihood expenditures. The Government claimed to have sufficient financial capacity to implement the Lantau Tomorrow Vision, but in fact, it is taking advantage of the black hole in the existing appropriation system to squander money.
The Budget, on the one hand, plans to dish out hundreds of billions of dollars from the Capital Works Reserve Fund on infrastructure, while on the other, is being miserly in spending on items affecting people's livelihood, such as housing and health care. The series of relief measures involves an additional expenditure of merely $6 billion and will reduce government revenue by only $34 billion. In respect of health care, the Budget proposes to provide additional recurrent funding of over $700 million for the Hospital Authority, to earmark $5 billion for upgrading and acquisition of medical equipment, and to allocate $10 billion to setting up a public healthcare stabilisation fund. However, as we have repeatedly told the Secretary, one of the reasons for the almost collapse of the health care system and the overcrowding in accident and emergency departments during the Chinese New Year is that the Government lacks a comprehensive population blueprint and is unable to take the initiative in planning on a population policy so as to respond to or plan for the demands of the daily 150 new arrivals on One Way Exit Permits. Hence, even with the additional funding, the pressure exerted on frontline health care personnel cannot be relieved if we only tackle hardware issues rather than suppressing the demand at source and addressing the population overload. This is most regrettable.
In respect of housing, the Budget did not propose any purchase restriction on residential properties, a restriction which the Neo Democrats and I have repeatedly proposed to the Financial Secretary, neither did it mention how to curb investment, speculation or demands from overseas or overseas companies. In Australia, where a purchase restriction has been imposed, property prices have dropped more rapidly in recent months, proving that the introduction of a purchase restriction is indeed effective. In addition, the Budget proposed to set aside $2 billion to support non-governmental organizations in constructing transitional housing. However, for the record, here, I would like to stress that transitional housing is only a temporary solution to the housing problem in Hong Kong. The Government should definitely not turn this transitional measure into a standing policy.
Next, I must stress that although the Budget proposed to bring the Housing Reserve back to the fiscal reserves and claimed that funding will be earmarked in the fiscal reserves for public housing development, the $82.2 billion accumulated LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9425 balance of the Housing Reserve will actually be brought back to the disposable general revenue in the next four years. Mr James Henry LAU, the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury, added that the recovered amount can boost local Gross Domestic Product by 1.7% to 2% and the $20 billion recovered in the first year is equivalent to the amount proposed in the Budget for the purchase of 60 properties for accommodating more than 130 welfare facilities, such as elderly centres and day child care centres. I would like to talk more on this, namely my views and criticisms on this measure because it will make the Government part of the demand for welfare facilities. As we all know, prices increase when demand increases, and the objective effect of it is pushing up market prices. The Government's purchase of 60 properties at $20 billion will indirectly prop up the market for speculators. Even if this is not its intention, such an objective effect will happen. We do not know if these facilities will operate on a subvention or private mode, but a transfer of interests to the business sector will happen ultimately.
Financial Secretary Paul CHAN splurged $20 billion on 60 shop units, while Secretary for Labour and Welfare Dr LAW Chi-kwong came forth to defend him, saying that as $20 billion can only purchase 0.1% of the total floor area in Hong Kong, the amount is too small to prop up the market. Since the Secretary has his mind set on such a great move with such a far-reaching vision, let us take a look at what commercial buildings can be purchased with $20 billion.
According to the cross-sectional research by Liber Research Community, $20 billion is sufficient to purchase the Dah Sing Financial Centre, which is only three minutes' walk from Wan Chai MTR Station, twice; the Mass Mutual Tower priced at $12.5 billion offers a vista of both sides of the Victoria Harbour if used as a day care centre; the Hopewell Centre is priced at $16.3 billion only, within the $20 billion budget, and elderly people staying there may enjoy a buffet meal in the revolving restaurant on the top floor after doing a workout. The $20 billion is a huge amount of public money and these prices―$20 billion for the Dah Sing Financial Centre twice; $12.5 billion for the Mass Mutual Tower and $16.3 billion for the Hopewell Centre―are already the top transaction prices or the highest valuations recorded when Chinese capital came to snap up commercial buildings in Hong Kong earlier on. As Chinese capital has withdrawn in the past month, a total transaction value of only $25.9 billion was recorded for industrial, commercial and shop units in the first two months of 2019. So, the Financial Secretary …
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, on which head are you speaking now?
MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): I am speaking on "Head 184―Transfers to Funds", which involves the $20 billion earmarked from the Capital Works Reserve Fund for purchase of welfare facilities.
I shall continue. A total transaction value of only $25.9 billion was recorded for industrial, commercial and shop units in the first two months of 2019. The one-off investment by Financial Secretary Paul CHAN is equivalent to the total transaction value in the entire Hong Kong in the past several months. Is he not acting generously at the expense of taxpayers in making purchases at high prices? I think we should absolutely not use the disadvantaged and elderly people as an excuse. The Government claimed that it would purchase shop units for the use of day care centres and elderly centres, while in fact, 90 hectares of idle GIC (Government, Institution or Community) sites are available at no cost at all. There GIC sites on the list for sale, but they will be rezoned for housing construction, or even luxury homes.
Let us take a further look. Among the 109 new public housing projects in 2005 to 2018, nearly half of them (53 projects) have not reserved any space for welfare facilities. The construction cost of the recently completed day care centre in Kai Tak, which can serve 60 elderly people, is $12 million only. How many Kai Tak day care centres can be built with $20 billion? It is an astonishing 1 666.
The grand debate on land supply earlier on indicated that there is a shortage of commercial space, thus the need to hard sell the reclamation works to build artificial islands off East Lantau. The Government is not using readily available sites for welfare facilities and community centres. Instead, it competes for land supply with the people. This is the new financial philosophy of the Financial Secretary: buying at high prices and selling at low prices; rushing to purchase shop units at peak prices, while GIC sites are left idle or rezoned for low-density housing.
Chairman, next, I would like to comment on the $6 billion earmarked in the Budget for developing new harbourfront promenades and improving harbourfront facilities. In my opinion, using the Capital Works Reserve Fund to fund the project will potentially result in showy and impractical hardware facilities, rather than focusing on providing better aquatic activities and facilities for the residents.
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Lastly, I would also like to point out that allocating an additional $353 million to stepping up the promotion of tourism runs completely contrary to the actual situation and public opinion, and disregards the hardship faced by the people. For more than half a year since the commissioning of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge and Express Rail Link, a large number of non-overnight, low-spending, low-end visitors have come to Hong Kong and affected every community. The North District, Sheung Shui, Fanling, Sha Tin, Ma On Shan and Tseung Kwan O were affected in the earlier years. Now, even To Kwa Wan, Tung Chung and Tsuen Wan are crammed with non-overnight visitors, mostly from the Mainland, who invade the living space of the local residents. Hong Kong's tourism carrying capacity is overloaded, but the Government turns a blind eye to that and continues to spend more than $300 million on promoting tourism.
In 2012, the then Chief Executive LEUNG Chun-ying at least made the effort to issue the Assessment Report on Hong Kong's Capacity to Receive Tourists, even though the report made the wrong assessment that more hotel rooms had to be built to accommodate the sustained growth in the number of visitors. One could not imagine that these non-overnight, low-spending individual visitors would come to Hong Kong for "in-depth tourism" nowadays. Some of them went to buy two bottles of soy sauce in Tung Chung; some of them "checked-in" at tourist spots in the residential areas. The change in travel pattern has affected the living space of Hong Kong people. Nevertheless, our Government knows only to build more tourist spots and do more promotion endlessly, while neglecting the hardship faced by the people. Hong Kong people must see this clearly.
There is a maximum tourism carrying capacity for every place. Hong Kong has a population of 7.3 million people, which is one sixteenth of Japan's population of more than 130 million. However, the number of inbound visitors in 2018 was 65 million (nearly half of which were non-overnight visitors), more than double Japan's 27.8 million in 2018. Why can they not understand the simple fact that Hong Kong is only a small city? There are social costs in developing tourism, hotel and retail industries, which the entire Hong Kong is now paying, but the Government has turned a blind eye to the situation. Therefore, I hope the Government will consider reforming the current "one trip per week" system immediately. It should be changed to "one trip per month" or even "one trip per several months". The Government should also examine Hong 9428 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Kong's tourism carrying capacity and set a ceiling for the number of inbound visitors. Measures such as a tourist tax should also be introduced in order to improve the overcrowding of visitors in many areas of Hong Kong.
In a nutshell, the Budget underlines the Government's emphasis on infrastructure and scant attention to people's livelihood. Its bias in favour of the financial and real estate sectors and introduction of external demand fully demonstrate its long-standing financial management mindset that infrastructure and hardware are considered as an investment that drives Hong Kong's economic development, while education, health care and elderly care are considered expenditures, (The buzzer sounded) but these are not expenditures …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please stop speaking.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): In this session, I would like to express my views on "Head 37―Department of Health". I can see that the Secretary for Food and Health is in the Chamber. I have not proposed any amendment to reduce the estimated expenditure for this head because I think there should be an increase in the funding for the Department of Health ("DH"). Why do I consider it necessary to increase the funding for DH? Because I hope DH can make improvement in several aspects.
DH should, firstly, protect, enhance the management of, and digitize the data of the public; secondly, enhance the work of dental clinics; thirdly, increase the expenditure on conducting blood tests and antibody tests for Hong Kong citizens. But meanwhile, I have reservations about the proposal that the estimate for DH stands part of the Schedule because its expenditure also covers the Tobacco and Alcohol Control Office, and I think it is likely that a new law on a smoking ban, that is, a full ban on alternative smoking products, such as electronic cigarettes, heat-not-burn cigarettes, etc., will be enacted in this financial year but I am strongly opposed to such legislation.
Of course, I can feel that there are some "undercurrents" now. The Government wants the pro-government camp to support it in everything. It wants them to support the Bill on fugitives, and it wants them to support a ban on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9429 smoking, asking them to express their support by not proposing any amendment. How much more support does the Government want from them? So, the legislation on a full ban on alternative smoking products ultimately may not be passed easily. I think the Secretary knows it only too well.
Let me come back to the work that DH should do in the several areas that I mentioned just now. The mechanism for handling and protection of personal data in DH seems to be quite backward and it is, therefore, necessary to provide additional funding for it to make improvement. Recently there is a piece of news which may have escaped the attention of many people, and this incident took place in this financial year. On 25 April this year, the staff of Li Po Chun Dental Clinic of DH, while taking stock of the files, found that an appointment book was missing. The appointment book contains information of 383 dental patients of a treatment room for the period between January and June 2015, including names and dates of appointment. Some entries may also contain the patients' identity card numbers and dates of birth. This incident was brought to light only on 2 May. If we look at just this piece of news alone, we may think that it is only about the missing of an old appointment book. But it has revealed several problems in the handling of personal data by DH.
First, why was a stock take on the information in 2015 performed only in 2019? Why is it that the appointment book was found missing only in 2019? This is incomprehensible. Why is an appointment book not sealed for the necessary handling procedures to be carried out accordingly? Why is it found missing only now? Is it that such information should be input into a computer and then the physical carrier should be sealed or destroyed? In fact, many patients have conveyed that the approach adopted by DH in recording patients' information is outdated. In many clinics, the appointment records are still written on a physical register and I have no idea whether such information is input into a computer, and patients' medical histories are still recorded manually in many clinics. The most direct way to make improvement is to increase the expenditure and manpower for head 37 and expeditiously review all the filing and word processing systems of DH, so as to ensure adequate protection of the public data. Manpower and resources should also be increased to digitize the past files, and in future, the making of appointments and medical records should be handled by electronic means, in order to reduce the risks of losing patients' personal data.
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Another area on which expenditure should increase is dental clinics. Under Programme (7), the expenditure on medical and dental treatment for civil servants is $2.1 billion this year, showing a 14.9% increase over the original estimate. The specific work under this programme includes "providing medical services to eligible persons at non-public clinics", "providing dental treatment services to eligible persons at dental clinics", and "effecting payment for medical fees and hospital charges incurred by eligible persons in authorised cases". Despite an increase in the expenditure estimate, there is no significant increase in the estimated number of people who will enjoy these services. The attendances at non-public clinics this year are 290 000, representing an increase of 5 000 over last year's figure. The attendances at dental clinics are 775 000, showing an increase of only 8 000 over last year's attendences of 769 600. This slight increase in the estimate is not sufficient to meet the growing demand for dental services arising from the ageing of population.
In fact, a predominant part of the work of DH's dental clinics is to provide services for civil servants and their families who are the so-called eligible persons. Therefore, the operational hours are rather detached from reality and it is difficult for other members of the general public to use their services. These clinics mostly open during the daytime from Monday to Friday and from around 8:00 am or 9:00 am until around 5:00 pm. It is difficult for the low-income earners in general to use their services unless they go there to wait in the queue very early in the morning at 5:00 am, just as the elderly are doing, but the elderly still have to go through a lot of tests in order to be eligible for some limited services. I think we should substantially increase the recurrent expenditure for dental clinics, extend their opening hours and open them up for use by more members of the public. Of course, this will lead to another question, that is, where will the dentists come from? We have to leave this question to the Secretary's consideration. We hope that more members of the public and elderly persons can enjoy dental services, so that their oral health can be improved.
Besides, I suggest that more funding should be provided for expansion of the DH team for conducting blood tests, so as to cope with unexpected circumstances which may arise. Since the beginning of this financial year, the measles epidemic has been growing increasingly serious. We in the Legislative Council have asked urgent questions on it but actually it is useless to ask urgent questions because vaccines are lacking and antibody tests are not provided. While blood tests have been arranged for people working at the airport where there is an outbreak of measles infection, they have a lot of complaints because LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9431 the daily quota is no more than a hundred or so. The Government has arranged blood tests for the airport staff to see if they have sufficient immunity against measles in order to set their minds at ease. Chairman, I am really good as I already tested my immunity against measles at a private clinic for which I was charged some $500. The result shows that I have sufficient immunity against it and so, I do not need a vaccination, nor do I have to compete with others for it. However, only a very small quota is provided at the airport and the largest quota provided so far seems to be 200. This is far from adequate compared to tens of thousands of employees working at the airport. Therefore, should we not provide more resources for contingency sake? I am not asking the Government to provide free antibody tests for all the citizens in Hong Kong, and this is actually quite impractical as the Government is already bogged down in a mess in performing tests for some 10 000 people working at the airport. Having said that, I think there is a need to provide additional resources and make early plans and preparations.
Next, I would like to talk about the Correctional Services Department ("CSD"). We have proposed amendments on the expenditure estimate for CSD before. I remember that Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, who cares a lot about prisoners' rights, has proposed amendments in this regard before. So did "Long Hair" who had proposed amendments to, for instance, reduce the expenditure on meal provisions. The pro-establishment camp then said that people would be starved when we called for a reduction in the expenditure on meal provisions, accusing us of being callous. Members must understand that when we proposed amendments to a certain head or a specific item, or when we specially made mention of a certain item, it is because we do not have the power to increase the relevant expenditure. Therefore, we can, by proposing amendments, create an item for discussion at the meeting of the Legislative Council and we can hold focused discussion at the meeting. So, we do not need to cut all the expenditure. We need only to propose a small reduction in order to hold a discussion on it. But even if we do not propose any reduction, we may still be able to discuss it, like our discussion on CSD here today as no colleague has proposed to reduce its expenditure. But with regard to this head with no amendment, I only wish to make one point and that is, the expenditure on meal provisions is not linked with inflation and I am most dissatisfied with it.
With regard to the expenditure for "Subhead 118 Provisions for institutions" under this head, the actual expenditures for 2017 and 2018, and the expenditure estimate for 2019, are all $78.89 million for each of the three years. 9432 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
This is unimaginable. Even when it comes to breakfast, if we compare the price in the year before last with that of this year, we will find that the price has continuously increased in tandem with inflation. To maintain the quality of food, it is inevitable for the expenditure to be adjusted upwards. I have done some studies. Take the Consumer Price Index (A) as an example. In early 2017, the price index for food was 106.1, and the index for the same group of commodities already rose to 113.1 in early 2019. From this we can see that the prices of food have continued to increase for two years. Think about this: If the number of persons in custody decreases, expenditure will certainly decrease as there are less people and the quantity of food intake will drop accordingly. But as I can see from the relevant programme under this head, there is no significant decrease in the number of persons in custody. Such being the case, when the Consumer Price Index indicates an increase in the prices of food whereas the relevant expenditure estimate does not increase, what does it mean? If it is not the case that everyone is asked to consume less food or everyone in the prison is on diet, then the quality of food has to be further lowered and this is most undesirable.
If the food quality is lowered to suppress the expenditure on meal provisions and hence suppress the overall funding and expenditure for CSD, this would be most disrespectful to persons in custody. Many friends of mine were jailed before, including Members or former Members of this Council. The meals provided in prison can indeed make people feel most undignified. According to what they have told me, and let us not talk about the taste of the food or whether enough food is provided, they had to eat even spoilt, stinky food. We all know that the meals provided by CSD to prisoners always leave a lot to be desired. They are already of very poor in quality and now, the expenditure for meal provisions even has to be suppressed as it means a downward adjustment in the expenditure when there is no increase of it. This will only make the meals even more unpalatable and the meals can only barely make up for the daily energy consumption of the prisoners. I think persons in custody also have basic dignity. The authorities absolutely have the means to increase the expenditure for meal provisions.
Increasing the expenditure aside, it is, of course, also necessary to maintain the quality of the meals. Food that is on the verge of turning bad or spoilt, stinky food must not be provided for consumption by the prisoners. That said, it is still difficult to do so, because when the food starts to smell a little foul, and if the officer said that it does not smell foul and asked the prisoner if he actually LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9433 wants to make a fuss or if he does not want to eat anymore, Members can imagine what the situation is like then. Moreover, in the latter part of this financial year, I reckon that after the passage of the Bill on fugitives, there is the possibility that warrants will be issued by the Chief Executive for the arrest of many more people because of the extradition law―it is really true that anything can be linked with this Bill―resulting in an increase in the number of people being arrested and detained. So, I have seen that in February, CSD―I wonder if it has got wind of such news and developed a sense of crisis which prompted it to set aside more funds for the expenditure under "Subhead 118 Provisions for institutions", probably with the intention of meeting the relevant expenditures for, say, an increase in manpower after the passage of the Bill.
Under this head, it is also necessary to increase the expenditure for "Subhead 193 Earnings scheme for persons in custody". In 2017, the expenditure for this subhead was $42.82 million and in 2018, it dropped to $39.22 million. Guess how much its expenditure estimate is this year. Is there an increase or a decrease? You are wrong whether you say that there is an increase or a decrease, for it remains unchanged at $39.22 million. Although the earnings of persons in custody are purely nominal, I think the authorities should at least increase their wages nominally according to the changes in prices. I think prisoners are also serving society in taking up work in prison and their toil should be duly recognized. Think about this: If a person who was sentenced to imprisonment for 10-odd years or 20 years does the same type of work every day, such as making road signs, and if he makes the same amount of earnings every year, do Members consider it reasonable? Do Members think that they will feel respected? Therefore, I hope that the Government can make adjustments to the earnings of persons in custody according to the price changes in the market annually, and it is all the more necessary to recover the increments not paid to the prisoners. I wonder if Members from the labour sector will say a few words on the earnings of persons in custody.
Some time ago, a case of judicial review was filed with the High Court by a person who alleged that there is discrepancy between Chinese meals and Western meals provided in prison. Prisoners who are Westerners have more choices than Chinese prisoners whether for breakfast, lunch or dinner, and Westerners can also have larger rations of food. The applicant in this case, who was arranged to take Chinese meals, had a bowl of congee and a slice of bread for lunch every day but those taking Western meals had eggs, hamburger, toast and tea with milk. As 9434 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 such, the applicant alleged that CSD's definitions of Westerners and Chinese are unclear. People with black skin and those with white skin are considered Westerners who can have western meals, whereas the yellow-skinned prisoners, such as Thais, Vietnamese and Filipinos, are considered Easterners and therefore have to take Chinese meals. Some prisoners had made requests to Correctional Services Officers for switching to Western meals but their requests were rejected. A vegetarian has also conveyed to me in person that when he indicated that he was a vegetarian, he was asked to give a reason and so, he wrote that it was his lifestyle habit. The department replied that it did not accept this reason and told him to write that he was a Buddhist. He said that even though he was not a Buddhist, he still wrote as he was told in order not to kick up a row, and the matter was then settled. Later, I brought this case to the attention of CSD, and I heard that improvement has been made now. So, if you write that you are on a vegetarian diet because it is your lifestyle habit but are rejected by CSD, you may let me know and I will convey it to the new Commissioner of Correctional Services. I hope that the expenditure for CSD can be adjusted in line with inflation.
I so submit.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): In this session, Chairman, I wish to add two points to my speech on issues relating to the Department of Health ("DH") in the last session. First, I have discussed the provision of additional dental clinics with DH and colleagues of the Secretary on many occasions. The Bureau has pointed out that the crux of the issue lies in dental clinic services being rather limited. The actual reason is a shortage of dentists, and such a shortage concerns the feasibility of increasing the training places for dentists offered by the two universities in Hong Kong. I certainly know that we lack not only dentists, but also multidisciplinary medical teams. Both health care workers and medical practitioners are inadequate. From this perspective, the crux of the issue is the feasibility of effectively increasing dentistry or medical places. If it is feasible, through what channel or with what vigour can it be achieved? Is that the way forward agreed by the entire Government? Or should we follow the current approach under which some places will be set aside by the University Grants Committee in the funding process and then assigned to the medicine and dentistry disciplines, thereby increasing the dentistry and medical places without any change to the overall number of places? I think this is the fundamental question. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9435
If the Government wishes to face squarely the shortage of health care workers, it must seriously examine how best to effectively increase the dentistry and medical places. Otherwise, the relaxation of restrictions on overseas dentists or medical practitioners returning to Hong Kong will just be of little help.
An article pointed out earlier that projecting from the population ageing in Hong Kong, in order to meet the physician-to-population ratio as stipulated by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, we will still be short of 9 000 medical practitioners by 2030. In other words, we will have a huge staffing gap, which has not yet taken into account the natural wastage of health care workers in the coming decade or so. Hence, should the Government not carefully consider ways to make up for the shortage of health care workers? Without an overall strategy, we will just find ourselves locked in a wrangle over whether overseas medical practitioners should be allowed to return, and even if they are allowed to do so, the supply may be limited, which is actually far from adequate. In this connection, I hope the Secretary, the Education Bureau and the Government can seriously think about ways to effectively increase the training places for health care workers, including dentists. This is the point I would like to highlight to the Secretary.
The second point is about families clinics. Last year, the Bureau introduced a proposal to this Council for providing additional families clinics, and I also stressed at the meeting that under the existing mechanism, discs had actually been reserved for civil servants to receive outpatient services provided by the Hospital Authority ("HA"). In view of this, to a certain extent, some discs for general patients to receive outpatient services provided by HA are actually reserved for civil servants. Hence, I think if the Government intends to provide additional families clinics, actually hardware is already available. Can it be used appropriately as the basic hardware for the provision of outpatient services? If so, what we lack is still a supply of health care workers. Ultimately, I certainly agree that this still boils down to the shortage of health care workers. Nevertheless, if consideration is made from this angle, with the availability of existing hardware for the provision of additional families clinics, should red tape not be cut policywise to make such hardware part of the public health care system, rather than just meeting the single objective of serving civil servants? Can our limited public resources be put to more effective use? I hope the Secretary will rethink this issue because I had raised this point repeatedly when the Bureau introduced the proposal for providing additional families clinics, and I found the reply by the Bureau neither satisfactory nor acceptable. According to 9436 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 the Bureau, it was the obligation of the Government to provide civil servants with health care services. I agree with this point, and have no intention to deprive them of such rights. But since hardware facilities are currently available, why can they not be made part of the public health care system for mixed delivery?
Another topic is about the disciplined services. I think there are mainly two issues concerning the disciplined services, one of which I am more concerned about is a separate pay scale for fire service personnel. As we all know, Hong Kong has seen the occurrence of a number of major fire incidents in recent years. That is not something we wish to see, but deaths of firemen on duty have indeed recurred, making us realize the enormous risks and dangers faced by firemen in the line of duty. And according to their shift patterns, they will have 48 hours of rest time for every 24 hours of duty. Hence, their weekly working hours often exceed 48 hours. In view of this, should the authorities not pay firemen on the basis of a separate pay scale, having regard to the dangerous nature of their work and excessively long working hours? I think the Government must consider this. If the disciplined services staff facing the greatest risk with their life in peril are not offered an appropriate remuneration package, it is not fair to those firemen hung between life and death. I hope the Government can consider this most seriously.
Another point concerns the overall arrangements for disciplined services quarters. We have received a number of cases relating to surrender of quarters. Under the existing arrangements, disciplined services staff need to apply for public rental housing ("PRH") units when they leave the service. But given the limited supply of PRH units, they are often not able to move out of their quarters until they are allocated PRH units. To tackle this issue at root, we certainly can say that the provision of more PRH units will be the solution. But it seems not a quick remedy. Moreover, this problem has also affected serving disciplined services staff whose morale is affected due to the increasingly long waiting time for allocation of quarters.
Hence, I have this simple recommendation. At present, all disciplined services staff will move out of their quarters only when they are allocated PRH units. I hope the Administration, particularly colleagues of the Security Bureau responsible for the disciplined services, can seriously consider and discuss with the Hong Kong Housing Authority and the Housing Department the feasibility of granting disciplined services staff the Green Form status to apply for purchase of Home Ownership Scheme flats, thereby offering them an additional option. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9437
This additional option serves to offer them secure prospect of accommodation in advance, while giving an additional option to those who are currently waiting to move out of their quarters. I think this approach can assist those colleagues currently waiting for PRH units as they are required to move out of their quarters by offering them an additional option. I hope the Government will give it consideration, and this recommendation is also practical because without such an option, they will have to continue to wait for allocation of PRH units, and in turn occupy public housing resources. Hence, from this point of view, this arrangement can offer an additional option to the disciplined services staff without any harm done. I hope the Government will give it consideration.
Lastly, I wish to talk about the performance of the Trade and Industry Department ("TID"). We have heard on several occasions the repeated claims by TID that they will assist small and medium enterprises ("SMEs"). What are the details? Sometimes we are really saddened because at the special meeting of the Finance Committee, the Administration has replied that TID will not handle issues relating to re-industrialization for the reason that it is beyond the purview of the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau ("CEDB"), thereby obviating the need for TID to handle such issues. In that case, which Bureau should be responsible for such work?
Does the so-called support offered by TID to SMEs …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU, the Trade and Industry Department is under a head with amendment, which should be discussed in the next session. Please come back to the question of this debate.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Okay, it should be the Innovation and Technology Commission ("ITC"). I got it.
Hence, I wish to clarify a basic concept. Chairman, be it ITC, TID or the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, which one of them will actually give serious thoughts to re-industrialization?
While re-industrialization has been discussed for a long time, practical action has been absent. Particularly at this time when SMEs face the China-United States trade war, a number of enterprises have relocated their 9438 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 production bases and back-up offices to Southeast Asia due to Mainland policy changes and worries about the China-United States trade war. In this regard, does the Government have any strategy to induce those enterprises which have relocated their production bases to move their high value-added segments back to Hong Kong?
I recall that when I discussed the issue of re-industrialization, I pointed out that "Made in Hong Kong" used to be a brand with value, and products were allowed to bear such a mark only if they met certain requirements stipulating that 30% of the manufacturing process had been carried out in Hong Kong. In this regard, has the Administration adopted a proactive approach in handling this? Or has it just disposed of such matters with the provision of some funding or support? In that case, what is the actual benefit of such so-called support to our society? There is a big question mark over it indeed.
Hence, in addition to supporting upstream R&D efforts, I consider it even more important to carry out downstream commercialization after completing such endeavours, thereby forming a key element of the industrial production chain of Hong Kong. If we have no involvement in the key components of the production chain, our achievements in innovation and technology will apparently benefit others but not ourselves. In that case, I personally think that the so-called initiatives and approaches in support of innovation and technology research work or SMEs will neither help promote diversified socio-economic development nor bring localized actual benefits to the real economy of Hong Kong. Hence, I hope the Administration will squarely face the current situation in which all efforts are dedicated to upstream development and research, while downstream commercialization and re-industrialization are still left unattended.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): Chairman, since this discussion session involves some heads with no amendment and some others with amendments, I appreciate that it is a harsh task for the Chairman to act as the gatekeeper since you have to pay attention to whether we have digressed from the relevant heads and discussed other heads. Yet, the remarks made by Mr WU Chi-wai just now have also reflected a problem, that is, with respect to many policies, the general public would think that they should be the responsibilities of a certain department, but it is entirely not the case actually. Whilst Mr WU Chi-wai was obviously talking about re-industrialization, it turns out that it has nothing to do with the Trade and Industry Department. Instead, it is related to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9439 the Innovation and Technology Commission ("ITC") under the Innovation and Technology Bureau. Certainly, "Head 155―Government Secretariat: Innovation and Technology Commission" is within the scope of this discussion session, so we can talk about it now. In view of this, I hope the Chairman or the Deputy Chairman would be more lenient in handling such cases as the division of labour within the Government is often quite confusing indeed. Sometimes we cannot avoid … Please do not act straight away when you hear us mention the Trade and Industry Department, for we are actually talking about ITC.
(THE CHAIRMAN'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)
Deputy Chairman, I would continue to talk a little bit more about "Head 155―Government Secretariat: Innovation and Technology Commission". I have already talked about some aspects in an earlier speech, including research and development ("R&D") and Technology Voucher. Therefore, now I would like to talk about the tax deduction for small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") that the Government has implemented commencing from this year. In this year, the first HK$2 million of R&D expenditure of eligible enterprises will be granted triple (300%) tax deduction, and a 200% tax deduction will be granted for the balance. Everyone of course welcomes the proposal, and it has already been passed by the Legislative Council.
Yet, I would like to express my gratitude to ITC and the Inland Revenue Department ("IRD") for organizing seminars and briefings for me and the industry in the past couple of months. It is because many companies have made enquiries with the Government through me since last year. They said that the Legislative Council has passed the proposal, which means it has already taken effect. They hope to apply for the tax deduction immediately but it turns out that IRD has spent several months on preparing a host of guidelines and regulations, etc. The enterprises then said that they missed it, for they initially planned to file the tax returns before April this year so that they can apply the new method immediately, but in fact they cannot do so. Anyway, a seminar has been held for everyone to take part in the discussion. I also found this matter quite complicated. It does not matter, but I hope the authorities will pay attention to some issues. One of them is that some enterprises consider themselves as being engaged in R&D endeavours in Hong Kong and hope that they can enjoy the benefit―this is also the original intent of the Government that 9440 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 more companies, be they SMEs or even start-ups, can benefit from the initiative―but they actually find it quite complicated and difficult for them to apply for the status of an "R&D institution".
Of course, the Government has its own justifications for its original intent. Not every company which claims to be engaged in R&D activities would be eligible; the Government also needs to confirm if these companies are really engaged in R&D activities. The Government hence adopts the simplest approach, under which at the first stage, recognized R&D institutions―that is, R&D centres operated by all universities and the Government, etc.―are the first batch to be selected, whilst it will take some time for other private enterprises, even those large-sized enterprises which consider themselves having been carrying out plenty of R&D projects internally, to make applications. Besides, the procedures are not very clear, and it is not known the duration IRD would take to process the applications. This situation has really made some companies in the industry rather perplexed as it still takes a long time for them to make an application even though they think that they are engaging in R&D projects which fall within the scope specified by IRD and ITC. To speed up the relevant process, they could only turn such projects into collaborative ones by seeking cooperation with a Government-recognized R&D centre which is bound to reap an expedient gain in the process―I should not say so, for they have done something indeed―Yet, these enterprises would think that in fact they can carry out such projects on their own, but for the sake of applying for tax deduction quickly and conveniently, they have no choice but to cooperate with publicly-funded R&D centres or universities, whilst there may not necessarily be such a need originally. Is this the best approach? To these enterprises, such an approach may cause other inconveniences or even involve intellectual property right concerns.
Therefore, I hope that the Government will address this issue squarely and figure out how it can facilitate medium-sized or even medium-to-large-sized enterprises to make applications. It is really difficult for some enterprises the scale of which is too small to do so, but some medium-to-large-sized enterprises also find the existing application procedures rather difficult and complicated. If this problem cannot be solved or ameliorated after a certain period of time, these enterprises will say that the Government has proposed the tax deduction but in fact it has failed to implement it, thereby giving rise to counter-effects. I hope the Government will pay attention to this. We do not wish to see a disservice done out of good intentions, and we even hope that the Government can come to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9441 the Legislative Council in the next year or two to tell us that many enterprises have successfully obtained the tax deduction. Only this will be meaningful, otherwise, the initiative will just become empty talk. We have also suggested that as many SMEs might not be able to benefit from the tax deduction directly to have their tax liability reduced, the Government should indeed consider some other measures in lieu of tax concessions, including providing them with more direct concessions in other aspects such as the Internship Programme I have mentioned before, to make it easier for them to obtain support through other avenues.
Yet, back to the question I mentioned just now―I would mention it once more only―as the Government now requires that only enterprises with presence in the Science Park and the Cyberport can participate, such a requirement has caused inconveniences to enterprises. Deputy Chairman, this also gives rise to the problem that these enterprises would, in order to meet this requirement, seek to use offices in the Cyberport or the Science Park as their registered addresses. Yet, the media would go to count the number of companies there and query whether people are working in the companies in the Cyberport or the Science Park. Are the staff members of start-ups working there? It seems nobody is working there. One of the reasons leading to this phenomenon is that some companies would seek some form of attachment in order to establish a relationship with the Science Park or the Cyberport, but they operate their business elsewhere in fact. Whilst this may not necessarily make the best use of the resources in these zones designated by the Government, it also reflects the truth that these enterprises really want to join this club so they choose to do so, but in fact it is unnecessary. Such being the case, it would be more reasonable to provide the many concessions to all companies in Hong Kong.
Deputy Chairman, I also wish to talk about another head, which is "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". Some Members have also mentioned the disbursement of a cash handout of $4,000 by the Government just now, and I would like to talk about it briefly. We―especially those from the technology sector―consider it a big joke. We initially thought that the form was very complicated and an applicant would have to fill in a lot of information. I got a form and took a look at it later. It was in fact very simple. Is there anything wrong with that? The Chief Secretary for Administration even told us at the very beginning that it would take 18 months to complete the processing. Deputy Chairman, do you know what my peers said? They said, "Yes, it will really take 18 months, as it will take 15 to 16 months to 9442 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 undertake the internal procedures of the Government and tendering, etc., and then the results would be delivered within two months, that is it." Even the Deputy Chairman laughed as well. This is the truth. It is obvious to all that the exercise has ended up in a complete mess. I find it very interesting that although computers are not used, some phenomena relating to computers can be seen, which is "Last in First out". We who are engaged in programming will understand that. What is "Last in First out"? It turns out that those who submitted their forms at a later time would receive the money first. Such computing concepts have arisen even though computers are not used. I can only respond with a bitter smile indeed.
Nevertheless, a deeper question is: Which officials made such a decision and why did they do so? I cannot make any guess here, whether it is the Financial Secretary or which Bureau Director. However, Deputy Chairman, I have recently visited many other government departments to see how they work. Although they are not under this head, still I have to mention the names of these departments, including the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer and the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department. I learnt that they have made a lot of efforts in promoting the application of technology to various departments. There are also a bunch of small-scale technology projects, which are funded by such programmes as TechConnect currently implemented by the Innovation and Technology Bureau. I would have no knowledge of it had I not made enquiries. There are actually dozens of projects, and more will come up in the future, which are implemented in different departments, and some of these projects are quite good.
This reminds me of an issue. I wonder if such a problem really exists and would also like to take this opportunity to raise it here, in the hope that officials such as the Financial Secretary will think about whether there is a way to deal with the problem. I found that the officials of the lower to middle level or middle level in various Policy Bureaux and departments indeed have now started to think about whether they can apply technologies to carry out some innovative initiatives, and they would give it a try by applying for a funding of several million dollars from the Innovation and Technology Bureau. They would try this way. Yet, in respect of some large-scale projects which require decisions by high-ranking officials at the top level, would they instead be very afraid and hope to avoid application of technologies? Just like the exercise of making the cash handout of $4,000. This is utterly strange. If this is really the case, I hope the Government must conduct a review and analysis. We exactly hope to handle LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9443 labour-intensive processes in an automated manner, which is the case on this occasion. We have no idea why the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency has not done so, but they just acted in this way. I have said enough about this part.
I do not only wish to voice my criticisms against this department or the Policy Bureau to which it belongs, and the officials who have made such a decision―it would be the best if we can know it―but the question is, does this reflect a more serious phenomenon in the Government? They would only try to implement projects of a small scale, and then the technology departments start to match up software and hardware for them to try out new technologies, but those high-ranking officials at the top level are reluctant to use them, and they refuse to apply them to major and important projects. What are the problems hence reflected? Deputy Chairman, I believe these are also some very interesting and crucial management issues which we must analyse indeed, with a view to identifying the ways to improve the operation of the Government.
Lastly, I would also talk about "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong" briefly. This part is very simple, and everyone knows that we in the pro-democracy camp have been requesting the Government to improve the resources of Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK") for years, but the Government has just run in the opposite direction. We all know that most of the reasons are political, nothing else matters. Just now many Members―including Mr Dennis KWOK as I can remember―have mentioned issues such as how worn out the facilities of RTHK are. Sometimes I would think that the Government seems to be turning to it when in need of help and ignoring it once its purpose has been served. When the Government decided to recover the analogue spectrum of Asia Television Limited and hand it over to RTHK, RTHK could only take over it.
That said, the pro-establishment camp has actually been refusing to provide additional resources for RTHK to construct a new broadcasting house, they have been trying to sap RTHK all along. A Member even asked RTHK not to broadcast news, what should they do then? Many people would like RTHK to broadcast football matches and sports events of secondary schools in the name of sports promotion. In fact, everyone knows what has happened, do they think the European League is now being broadcast? They then assert that the audience ratings of RTHK are low, but in fact, they just want to cut all the resources of RTHK and its air time. They simply do not want RTHK to broadcast some 9444 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 existing programmes of commentary on current affairs and news with satisfactory audience ratings which have received much attention and are regarded as a job well done.
In fact, we really cannot criticize the news programmes broadcast by RTHK as being biased. Who is the host of a news commentary programme which is very popular these days? It is Jasper TSANG, former President of the Legislative Council, who used to sit there. Being a highly respected figure of noble character from the pro-establishment camp, he is our senior and I would still address him as the President when I bump into him. In what ways are the programmes biased? When Members from the pro-establishment camp come to this legislature, they would consider this issue from an extremely politicized perspective and would exhaust all means to sap this long-standing reputable brand name, a public broadcaster which has been doing so well and is so widely supported by the public. I find their point unacceptable. Whenever I heard they ask RTHK to broadcast more sports programmes, I could only respond with a bitter smile. It is because everyone knows whether they really have such a strong support for sports. No, they merely want to sap RTHK.
Deputy Chairman, I so submit.
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Let me remind Members that according to the arrangements for the debate, this debate will come to a close at around 7:30 pm today.
I will call upon public officers to speak at around 7:00 pm and then we will immediately proceed to the vote on the question that the sums for the relevant heads stand part of the Schedule.
Members who wish to speak, especially those who have not yet spoken, please press the "Request to Speak" button as soon as possible.
MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, in my following speech, I will sum up my views on several heads. The first one is "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency".
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9445
Let us look at some figures for a start. In 2016-2017, the Working Family Allowance Office ("WFAO") approved 61 752 applications. In 2017-2018, the number dropped to 59 321. Does this reflect that the low-income families are no longer low-income and do not need assistance anymore? Certainly not. The view received by our office is that since the application procedures of the Working Family Allowance are too complicated, many families in need would rather work harder to hang on by themselves than get bogged down in the application process. The problem faced by them is that longer working hours have, on the contrary, made them poorer. Their social network becomes smaller, while their eligibility for receiving social resources becomes lower. In fact, they do not know how and where they can apply for these social security benefits. If social workers are engaged to contact and help them make various kinds of applications, an increase in manpower for WFAO is indeed inevitable.
However, we know only too well that all along, what the Special Administrative Region ("SAR") Government has been most afraid of is not public opinion. Rather, it is Hong Kong moving towards welfarism. But let us look at the low-income families receiving assistance through WFAO. For example, in a "2+1" three-person family consisting of two parents and one child, one of the parents work 192 hours every month, and the child is a student. Even if they receive the full-rate allowance, the monthly rate is only $2,200. If all the 59 000-odd applications in 2017-2018 were granted the full rate, Deputy Chairman, the total expenditure was only some $130 million. To the SAR Government hoarding tremendous financial resources, it cannot even be compared to a drop in the ocean.
These families took all the trouble to complete all kinds of forms. The meagre allowance they got in return, I am afraid, could barely meet the daily expenses for after-school care of their children. It should be the bounden duty of the SAR Government to set up a mechanism to help the needy obtain assistance. If the SAR Government holds that the procedures must be so complicated and the vetting must be so stringent to make the people feel that such assistance is hardly attainable, then will it please increase the manpower on this front so that this system can genuinely help the people in need.
Apart from working families, it is also necessary to care about university students and graduates. Deputy Chairman, "With hair, who would like to go bald?" To those students who can apply for the non-means-tested loan, the relevant procedures are certainly "fast, neat, and cool". In reality, however, most students have to apply for the means-tested student loan. Students who 9446 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 have made the application know how complicated the relevant procedures are, and they have to go to the office in Cheung Sha Wan umpteen times in order to complete the procedures. After their application succeeded, and they started working in society upon graduation, many students have nothing at all except a heavy student loan debt. It is only moral and fair that a borrower should repay his debt. But for a "greenhorn" who has just started working in society, does not have a high salary and bears great pressure in meeting the expenses for clothing, food, housing and transport, he will have to face the bills from the Student Finance Office ("SFO") every three months in the next 10 years after graduation. Repayments under different loan schemes will be made concurrently. Under such pressure, how can our young people see a bright future?
Deputy Chairman, a youngster in my office is exactly in such a plight. He has asked SFO whether several loan schemes can be combined for joint repayment to alleviate his burden. The answer is of course in the negative. He must follow the practice of SFO. Deputy Chairman, must SFO be so bureaucratic, rigid and inflexible? Hong Kong currently has such an enormous fiscal surplus. Why do young people still need to take such a difficult path? In our submission to the Government on the Budget, the Civic Party proposed injecting $1.6 billion into the unpaid student loan debts to help students pay the interest of their loans for 10 years at the maximum, thereby relieving the pressure on university students. Regrettably, this year the Financial Secretary did not accept our suggestion. We just hope that he will seriously consider the relevant proposal next year.
Next, I will talk about "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong". Many Honourable colleagues have spoken up against the injustice done to Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK") and mentioned such deficiencies as the lack of hardware and support for RTHK. Certainly, I am neither a member of RTHK nor a media worker. But I have watched the programmes of RTHK. I have also seen that its quality programmes need more support.
During the examination of the Budget in the Finance Committee in the past two years, I have asked about the staff wastage of RTHK. As shown by the available objective figures, the wastage rate last year did not slacken or slow down when compared with the year before last. It basically stood at more or less the same level. Except for other positions which were not specified, the posts with the greatest turnover were mainly Programme Officer and Assistant Programme Officer. In the last financial year, eight Programme Officers and seven Assistant Programme Officers left. In the Budget this year, the estimate LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9447 for RTHK reads that the daily broadcast on RTHK TV 31 will extend from 20 hours to 24 hours. Quite a number of staff have left in the last two years, but only a few new posts have been created in RTHK. Surprisingly, among the new posts to be created in 2019-2020, there is only one post of Programme Officer. There are five new vacancies for Assistant Programme Officer, and none for the post of Programme Assistant. Deputy Chairman, can such a staff establishment actually help RTHK deal with the round-the-clock operation? As shown by the quality of its programmes, every staff member of RTHK is an all-rounder, but still the Government cannot request them to work until they fall ill.
Deputy Chairman, in the staff wastage in the past year, the highest position was Deputy Director of Broadcasting. I wish to remind Members that since the last Deputy Director of Broadcasting (Programmes) of RTHK left office at the middle of last year, the post has remained vacant, and the two Assistant Directors have been taking turns to act the post. This situation has lasted for more than half a year. Why has the Government allowed this post to remain vacant all the way instead of promoting one of the Assistant Directors to take over? This is weird. I do not wish to surmise the reason why, after such a long time, the Government still has not identified any candidate to fill this important post of Deputy Director, but I would like to point out that the present promotion system for the top management in RTHK seems to have become increasingly integrated with the Administrative Officer grade. In the past, some people criticized RTHK as an independent kingdom subject to no supervision, but now I believe such accusations, like TUNG Chee-hwa's plan of constructing 85 000 housing units each year, have disappeared. I hope RTHK can maintain its editorial autonomy as usual, and the project for the new building which has never been confirmed will be finalized expeditiously, so that RTHK can continue to provide Hongkongers with a public broadcasting service of high quality and with credibility.
Deputy Chairman, as regards "Head 155―Innovation and Technology Commission", attaching great importance to the development of innovation and technology ("I&T"), the SAR Government has launched such schemes as the Technology Talent Admission Scheme and the Postdoctoral Hub Programme under the Innovation and Technology Commission one after another. As mentioned by Mr Charles Peter MOK just now, this is the right direction which can absolutely help Hong Kong compete for I&T talents. But the question lies in whether our appeal is sufficient. It is undeniable that the I&T sector craves for talents. Are foreign talents willing to come to Hong Kong? Are 9448 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Hongkongers currently living overseas willing to return to Hong Kong? Now our competitors are lavishing money, using various kinds of financial assistance to attract talents. The Hong Kong SAR Government claims that it attaches similar importance. Yet how much is it actually willing to pay to compete with other regions?
Deputy Chairman, competitiveness hinges not only on financial strength. A cosy living environment, a sound legal system and protection in a city are also factors of consideration of every qualified talent. While the SAR Government is "throwing a sprat to catch a mackerel", we see that now Shenzhen is actually casting "gold" and "diamond". Our financial strength is certainly inferior. In that case, we have to rely on a liveable environment, a sound legal system and protection to attract talents. However, these talents are not blind. They can read English. Seeing various queries raised by foreign business associations on the legal system in Hong Kong, especially the immense worries and controversies induced by the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019, Deputy Chairman, will these talents still come?
Back to the schemes mentioned just now. Some I&T companies have relayed to me that the Postdoctoral Hub Programme can indeed help them recruit talents. However, if they are not tenants in the Science Park, they will face additional trouble in their applications under each scheme. For example, for something which a tenant can settle in three months, a non-tenant will take five months to complete. Such being the case, we need to ask: Do the tenants in the Science Park enjoy priority? Is it that only tenants in the Science Park can develop I&T? Certainly not. However, given such an impression of outsiders that only those who have established base in the Science Park will enjoy privileges and advantages, why did so many members of the sector still choose to set up their offices in places rented outside the Science Park? The answer is obvious, that is, the Science Park is not the only option, and it may not be the best either. We believe that I&T should mushroom everywhere. We should not designate a site such that people inside will enjoy privileges and people outside will be subjected to unfair treatment simply for the sake of easy and convenient management by the Government. Under Secretary Dr David CHUNG is present today. I believe he must understand it and should have heard many views from the sector on the relevant situation. Since money has already been spent, we had better be more open and let other companies which have similarly contributed their efforts to Hong Kong enjoy equal treatment.
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Deputy Chairman, I also wish to talk briefly about "Head 169―Secretariat, Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance". Deputy Chairman, the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance was amended in 2016 after its initial enactment, but at that time no clear definition of "interception" was given in the law. Nor was it stated whether requests made by the Police themselves to telecommunication companies and network providers for instant messages of members of the public fall under "interception". With the increasingly rapid technological advancements nowadays, we see that the relevant Ordinance lags far behind the actual situation, thus causing the people's privacy to be exposed under the power of the Administration. Following technological advancements, will the people benefit or worry more?
In 2016, it was stated clearly that law enforcement agencies had to make a prior application to the Court for interception of communications. At that time the number of relevant applications received by the Court was some 1 000. However, Deputy Chairman, what was the actual number of cases of law enforcement agencies directly seeking information from Internet service providers? It was some 4 000. Why was there such a difference in number? Were the extra 3 000-odd cases of interception of communications free from supervision under the law? This is a genuine loophole in law which really warrants our concern. If we allow the loophole to persist and the law enforcement agencies to continue to intercept communications on the Internet without supervision, this issue is truly worrying.
When places around the world now emphasize the need to protect privacy and wish to regulate public power in the course of interception of communications, why do we still do nothing, knowing very well that more than 3 000 cases were not protected by the law? This is absolutely unsatisfactory. We should not allow it to happen again. Deputy Chairman, even though the officials present today may not be directly responsible for dealing with the relevant Ordinance, I still hope that the SAR Government will spend more time to consider afresh whether the legal definition of "interception" should be expanded and personal messages other than telephone conversations be included in the relevant Ordinance, with a view to truly achieving the original intent of the law, i.e. the Administration should be monitored during the course of any interception of personal communications. I hope the SAR Government will listen to Members' views and genuinely protect the people's privacy. I so submit.
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MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, first, I wish to comment on "Head 31―Customs and Excise Department". The Customs and Excise Department ("C&ED") is responsible for law enforcement in accordance with the Trade Descriptions Ordinance ("TDO"). We can see that its work in this regard has been effective and efficient. However, I also wish to take this opportunity to point out that in the past three years, the establishment of C&ED for law enforcement under TDO has not changed, remaining at 190 people.
Of course, in the Budget this year, we can see that the Government has finally responded to a long-standing request from us, that is, to increase the manpower of C&ED. It has decided to add 40 people to the establishment later on to enable C&ED to perform its duties under TDO. Certainly, we welcome such a measure.
However, Deputy Chairman, I also wish to cite a recent instance in which I have also assisted victims who were subjected to the deception or duress of fitness centres using unfair trade practices by following up their cases, making reports to and lodging complaints with C&ED. In fact, we found that the law enforcement actions taken or arrests made by C&ED were quite fast and actions were also taken against the companies concerned. However, earlier on, the Consumer Council named a dubious shop called "SML Studio", alleging that it had coerced victims by means of unfair trade practices. However, we learnt from the victims whom we had assisted that after it had been named by the Consumer Council, the prosecution against this shop had not yet been instituted. We also understand that the whole process of law enforcement and evidence collection in accordance with TDO, as well as the handling of such cases, are actually quite complicated.
In view of this, Deputy Chairman, this takes us back to a fundamental question. Of course, we hope that the Administration will respond to our requests by adding 40 people to the establishment in this year's Budget to enable C&ED to perform its law enforcement duties under TDO. We welcome this measure. However, I also wish to point out that 40 people may not be enough. If we look at the example of "SML Studio", we can see that the work of prosecution and evidence collection is rather complicated and protracted.
At present, we can see that the number of reports made and complaints lodged by the public against unfair trade practices according to TDO is on the increase, so we believe it is necessary to beef up the establishment further, so as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9451 to assist C&ED in dealing with such cases more effectively. For this reason, I wish to tell the Government that it must not think that by simply adding 40 people, it has answered our demand. This matter is not settled just by doing so. We hope that a multi-pronged approach can be adopted and that increases in manpower will continue to be made to ensure the general enforcement of TDO.
Deputy Chairman, I also wish to talk about "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". Deputy Chairman, we also know that the arrangement of disbursing $4,000 was announced in last year's Budget but many members of the public had many queries, so they approached us to ask us questions. When they learnt about the arrangement for disbursement of this $4,000, of course, they kept asking us what should be done, which department was responsible for the task, etc. In fact, after learning that the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency was the responsible department, a lot of people found this very strange. Perhaps the public are not familiar with the operation of the Government, so naturally, they were perplexed. Why is this government department responsible for the task? No matter what, in the end, it was decided that this department would be given the task but we found that for some time, many problems arose in the operation, that is, this operation of handing out $4,000. They include not having enough forms at the initial stage, so many Members' offices had to help print out the forms; earlier on, we also noticed many unclear points and many of the queries raised by the public were not answered. Even when the exercise was halfway through, DAB still had to keep asking the Government why some issues remained not settled. For example, some members of the public had submitted their forms but had not received any short message of confirmation within the specified period of time. This made a lot of people wonder if this meant their applications had not been received, since they had submitted the forms but had not received any short message. Or had their applications been turned down? Some people even received phone calls telling them to submit the forms again. It was possible that in some instances, that was the reply given to them by government departments.
Deputy Chairman, what I wish to say is: From the whole process this time round, it can be seen that often, the Government wants to grant benefits but the actual situation that we see is the Government saying, that according to fiscal management principles it is necessary to carry out assessments. We appreciate this point but in this process of assessment, due to the fact that the systems operated by the Government, including its computer system, are not at all well-developed, such a wanting assessment mechanism has made many local 9452 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 residents and members of the public bear an additional burden and enormous troubles. Frankly speaking, some members of the public said that if the Government wanted to implement this arrangement of disbursing $4,000 and as a result, it had to carry out assessments, this would be fine as the Government believed in this principle of fiscal management. However, it turned out there were so many problems in implementation. In that case, it would be better not to carry out any assessment at all. From another perspective, if an assessment really has to be carried out, should the computer system not be brought up to par first? If, for a long time, the computer system of the authorities has been unable to attain optimal operation, since a lot of the so-called "big data" is now available and information about the public can easily be accessed in the Government's computer system, why is it necessary to make the public fill in complicated forms time and again?
Therefore, Deputy Chairman, on this arrangement of disbursing $4,000 implemented by the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency this time―of course, I also know that the officers in this department have worked very hard and I believe my assessment should be correct―frankly speaking, I believe that in tasking this department with the exercise of disbursing $4,000, the manpower is not at all adequate. Of course, the Government has now increased its manpower but the point is: Increasing its manpower does not necessarily mean solving the problem. However, I also wish to take this opportunity to strike home a very important point, that is, when the Government grants benefits, if it wants to carry out some appropriate checking or processing, I believe the emphasis should be on refining the Government's computer system or its entire data system. Had such a step been taken, a lot of trouble would have been saved indeed and many members of the public would have been spared the trouble and problems they had to face. The Government really has the responsibility to do a good job of upgrading its computer system properly, rather than make the same mistakes each time some benefits are granted, obligating the public to fill in various forms and face the same problems again: Not able to receive short messages, having to fill in and submit forms again, thus resulting in a duplication of efforts and in the end, a sense of grievance will again prevail among the general public. I believe this is inappropriate, so the Government has to make proper arrangements concerning the whole computer system and data system.
Deputy Chairman, I so submit.
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MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, the debate in this session is on the expenditures for heads with no amendment. The first head I wish to address is "Head 62―Housing Department". Before discussing the Housing Department ("HD"), first of all, I would like to thank the Oriental Daily News. According to information, recently, this newspaper has levelled quite a lot of criticisms at the policies of HD, and the follow-ups are worthy of our concern. During the course of endorsing the appropriations every year, we wish to give the Government reminders in respect of the work of certain departments.
Earlier on, there was a news report about the Tenants Purchase Scheme ("TPS"). As a matter of fact, Long Ping Estate, where I serve as a District Council member, is one of the TPS estates. Having served as a District Council member for some 10 years, I find that HD needs to work harder to look into and resolve the problems. There are 40-odd TPS estates in Hong Kong, involving some 40 000 public housing tenants. The situation faced by them is that there are both tenants and owners in the same estate.
Several days ago, it was reported by the media that some housing estates are beset with the problem of ageing pipes. The mains may burst four times a month, causing unbearable misery to the residents. This shows that there are problems with the management. Very often, HD would delegate the power to the owners' corporation ("OC") and leave the matter to it. However, OC can only deal with owners. In a TPS estate, there are both rental and purchased units. Eventually, the buck would be passed around, and the problems would remain unsolved. TPS was implemented from 2000 to early 2006. But it seems HD did not deal with the estates in which housing units were sold. It would only leave the problem to OCs, but the latter was unable to manage the tenants. Consequently, problems have arisen. So far, I still have not seen HD make any effort to improve this situation.
Besides, there is another issue concerning HD. According to a report of the Oriental Daily News―this newspaper seems to have targeted HD lately―it is about the Comprehensive Structural Investigation Programme ("CSIP"). In short, some old housing estates suffered from rapid ageing. After repairs were carried out by HD, problems surprisingly reappeared on the same day. There might be water leakage from the ceiling again, structural problems, etc. Under CSIP, it may take as long as 15 years for HD to conduct a structural inspection in a housing estate. Does this Programme not warrant a review? Many people 9454 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 live in public housing in Hong Kong. Apart from being responsible for the leasing of the housing units, HD must also pay attention to the environment and structure of public housing.
During the examination of the Budget, we cannot propose increasing the provisions. Our amendments can only propose reductions. If the provisions for HD are reduced now, I do not see how the situation can be improved. But HD is indeed duty-bound to take care of the grass roots living in public housing, including TPS estates and old housing estates where structural problems have emerged as mentioned by me just now. Come to think about it. Problems reappeared on the very same day in places which had been repaired. Can this be regarded as a job done? Is there not a need to spur it on? I hope HD can make a greater effort at measures which will benefit the people. I hope this part of my speech can act as a spur to "Head 62―Housing Department".
Next, I wish to express my views on "Head 160―Radio Television Hong Kong". Just now quite a number of Honourable colleagues mentioned Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK"), speaking against the injustice it has suffered because we have the feeling that RTHK is being sapped. In particular, the construction of the New Broadcasting House of RTHK has been all talk but no action. Although we did ask the Secretary whether this project had fallen through, the Secretary did not reply. Nor did he address this issue. The hardware of RTHK badly needs a substantial upgrade. Such old devices as MD may still be in use for programme production. The staff really need to be all-round, taking care of each work process concurrently. Film editing, sound recording, programme production and collection of information may be under the charge of only several workers. Despite the lack of resources, RTHK can still struggle on with the television channels left behind by the closure of Asia Television and the round-the-clock operation which it is going to face. Does RTHK really have sufficient funds for operation?
What is most ridiculous is that while we are discussing whether RTHK is being sapped and has enough resources to keep going, some Honourable colleagues in this Council―if my memory has not failed me, they include Mrs Regina IP―blatantly queried whether RTHK needs a news department because many media organizations also broadcast news. In that case, does RTHK still need to retain its news department? Subsequently, the Hong Kong Journalists Association issued a statement, underlining the crucial importance of the news programmes of RTHK. As we all know, in the past, the news reports LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9455 of RTHK, as well as programmes produced by RTHK such as "Hong Kong Connection", have long ranked among the top three in the TV Appreciation Index Surveys. Such an achievement cannot be neglected.
In fact, the present situation of RTHK is that every worker is doing 10 jobs, even more awesome than the kung fu master IP Man. Despite the shortage of manpower, they can still manage the work of the Radio Division and Television Division. Should we not consider afresh how best more resources can be provided so that RTHK can continue to operate? As mentioned just now, the construction of the RTHK New Broadcasting House has been all talk but no action, and the old equipment is yet to be replaced. The frontline workers bend every effort in covering news. Here I really wish to express my highest respect for them. I hope they can keep it up. I also hope this Council can hold a discussion in the future on a high-level review of the hardware support for RTHK.
Besides, I also have a strong view on "Head 173―Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency". On the mention of this Agency, the Financial Secretary knitted his brows, since the Agency received some 3.2 million applications under the Caring and Sharing Scheme, but only 55 000 people have received the cash handout. There is no way to tell when the handout can be completed. A problem is that there is now a wave of resignations in the Agency. What should be done?
The staff have a huge workload, and the Agency is inundated with application forms. The arrangement for the cash handout announced in the Budget last year has still not been completed now. I wonder when it can be completed next year. I am also worried, if the wave of resignations continues, will the scheme for the disbursement of $4,000 take an even longer time to complete? Will it even have a negative psychological impact on the Financial Secretary in respect of this kind of handout scheme in future? The Financial Secretary's Office can draw a lesson from this event and learn how to make good use of the surplus, since we all know that the fiscal surplus announced by the Financial Secretary in the Budget at the beginning of this year is greater than the estimate earlier. Such being the case, how should the Government optimize the use of the surplus? Will cash be handed out again this year? Now the Financial Secretary is at a loss because it seems the difficulty faced by the 9456 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency cannot be resolved within a short time. I hope the Bureau or the Financial Secretary will think about how to straighten out the present predicament.
I also wish to present to the authorities my views on "Head 30―Correctional Services Department". I have learnt from my duty visits that there is indeed a lot of hardware in the Correctional Services Department ("CSD") which needs improvement. Examples are water leakage on rainy days, aged buildings and meals for prisoners. Can appropriate improvement be made to these circumstances? I have exerted myself to visit prisoners in the past six months. I am grateful to the frontline officers of CSD. They are very willing to assist in making the arrangements, thus enabling me to listen to the prisoners' views. The prisoners' request is actually most humble. They only request improvement to their meals. The amendments proposed by us this year do not seek to reduce the funding for CSD. Rather, we hope that apart from introducing smart prisons, CSD will do the basic work properly, responding appropriately to the prisoners' basic needs.
Certainly, I wish very much to take this opportunity to speak for Mr SHIU Ka-chun, Deputy Chairman of the Panel on Welfare Services. If he were present today, he would be the one speaking on this subject. But since he is not here, we speak on his behalf. In fact, we know the latest situation is that Mr SHIU Ka-chun has applied for leave to come to the Legislative Council to attend the meeting. He does not mind wearing handcuffs. But CSD replied that no consideration would be made. Early in the 1990s, there was a precedent. At that time CHIM Pui-chung applied for leave to attend the Legislative Council meeting, but it was rejected at the very last minute. The reason was that he held a different view on wearing handcuffs at the meeting. However, today Mr SHIU Ka-chun is willing to attend the meeting in handcuffs. He is willing to attend the meeting of the Panel on Welfare Services chaired by me in his capacity as Deputy Chairman. I do need his assistance. Otherwise I would have to suspend the meeting in order to go to the washroom. This is a serious problem. Furthermore, he is indeed very concerned about the welfare issues. Hence, will CSD make a clearer account of this matter? We look forward to hearing its explanation.
Moreover, regarding the whole Budget, I wish to remind the Financial Secretary that the International Chamber of Commerce-Hong Kong ("ICC-HK") has expressed its concern about the Government's amendment to the Fugitive LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9457
Offenders Ordinance ("FOO") today. ICC-HK stated that it was surprised and disappointed at the hasty approach of the Government in conducting the legislative amendment which has a profound impact, with an excessively short consultation period. This helps the Council understand the future business environment once the amendment to FOO is passed. We should note that members of the Executive Committee of ICC-HK include representatives from large enterprises familiar to us, such as MassMutual, the Bank of East Asia and multinational law firms. They highlighted their worries about Hong Kong's appeal to foreign investment and its status as an international commercial centre being affected. I hope the Financial Secretary will take note of it. I understand that the Financial Secretary has to draw reference from many factors. Maybe he is observing the external factors in the China-United States trade war and has to protect Hong Kong every day in response to sudden changes. But I hope the Financial Secretary will note this. In the event that the worries of ICC-HK come true, how should Hong Kong react? At the moment, no one can give a 100% guarantee that there is no need to fear or worry. Hence, should the Financial Secretary not be prepared about what to do in case the situations underlined in the statement issued by ICC-HK today happen? This is not an external factor. Rather, it is an internal one.
In this debate session, we can only present our views on the expenditures for heads with no amendment. However, since Secretary Prof Sophia CHAN is present, I wish to say a few words about her portfolio in particular. The discussion about the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") should wait until the next session. Now I am not going to speak on my amendment, but focusing on this Budget, I very much hope that the Bureau will endeavour to protect animal rights. Earlier on, the Secretary mentioned that legislation on animal welfare has entered the stage of public consultation lasting three months. We do not know if the legislation will be introduced successfully, but we should plan what we are going to do in the Budget. Let me say in advance that in the next session, I will propose an amendment to reduce the expenditure of AFCD on euthanasia. Although it may not be passed, we will spare no effort because we wish to strike home this message: it is unreasonable and infeasible to resolve the problems of animals by killing them. I will elaborate on this in the next session.
Deputy Chairman, there is no amendment to the 33 heads in this session. It may be because they are less controversial. Among them, I especially wish to thank "Head 166―Government Flying Service" for their unremitting efforts in 9458 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 rescue operations during disasters and life-saving work in the past. Certainly, there are many other officers who deserve our thanks, and I cannot possibly list them all. The Auxiliary Medical Service is also an industrious department which deserves our appreciation. Our power only allows us to propose reductions in expenditure. We cannot propose increases in funding. We can only extend our gratitude to some departments in this session for their hard work.
I so submit.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): As the Financial Secretary is present now, I wish to seize the opportunity to exchange with the Financial Secretary my views on the setting of the economy of Hong Kong.
As a matter of fact, all along, the Chief Executives of past terms had all attached great importance to the diversification of economy. We are aware that, insofar as economic development is concerned, if Hong Kong continues to remain close-minded and refuses to make progress, we will face great dangers and very high risks. We have long been advocating the advancement towards innovation and technology ("I&T") and hoping to develop Hong Kong into an important platform that pools I&T talent, especially in the context of the development of the Greater Bay Area. It is also the role Hong Kong ought to play in the development of the bay area economy as depicted in the Outline Development Plan for Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area.
I have mentioned on various occasions that, as regards the concept of pooling talent, we must ask the most fundamental question: what do we use to attract talent? The so-called talent has two sources: overseas or Mainland. But more importantly, we have to nurture local talent and make such talent willing to stay in Hong Kong to drive the local economic development. After all, all economic returns of Hong Kong are calculated on the basis of the Gross Domestic Product ("GDP"). In other words, entities with economic value must exist in Hong Kong to be counted towards the local economy.
I have mentioned an example on other occasions, that is, Da-Jiang Innovations Science and Technology Company Limited. The "big boss" of this company used to be a Hong Kong student, who took the achievements of his scientific research back to the Mainland. Eventually, the greatest economic value generated by him did not materialize in Hong Kong. Instead, the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9459
Mainland could reap the economic value derived from his innovative concept. He built an industry chain of drones, making his enterprise a sizable stakeholder of the global market of drones. This example precisely reflects that, to transform the economy of Hong Kong, we must properly address the aspects of pooling talent, improving the system and leveraging our competitive edge.
In this session, I will refrain from discussing very complicated concepts, but first talk about the Innovation and Technology Commission ("ITC"), an organization crucial to and at the forefront of the development of I&T in Hong Kong. The terms of reference of ITC include supporting research and development, promoting technological planning, as well as providing subsidies for universities. However, as often on some other occasions, I have this doubt: As so many researchers have been granted subsidies, exactly have the authorities traced their final destinations? If their destination is the Mainland, what are the reasons? When they are not willing to stay in Hong Kong and go to the Mainland, do we have incentives or measures to appeal to them to stay in Hong Kong? Or, can we incentivize them to capitalize on the Hong Kong brand so that they may be willing to retain part of the production chain―I dare not say the national production chain―in Hong Kong? However, much to our regret, even though we have raised such questions to ITC and pursued it for answers repeatedly, it has not traced the movement of such talent or followed up the matter from a research perspective. We have provided a large sum of money to support I&T talent. After they having undertaken research in Hong Kong for a period of time, where have the relevant research achievements gone? Eventually who will benefit from them?
Therefore, my prime worry is: Does ITC, as the executive unit representing the Financial Secretary in managing the research development and promoting I&T planning in Hong Kong, have any idea of long-term manpower planning? Or, having taken the funding from the Financial Secretary, ITC is only in charge of allocating the money, and then considers the Key Performance Indicator accomplished? In this connection, I hold that the Financial Secretary needs to seriously examine whether efforts made by ITC in this respect can achieve the targets of economic diversification and re-industrialization in Hong Kong, which have often been highlighted in the Budget or Policy Address.
Of course, we have noted that ITC has provided a great deal of subsidies targeting research and development. But there arises another problem, that is, such researches, after completion, are not articulated with midstream and 9460 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 downstream work. What does it mean? That is the insufficient support for commercialization, often causing our research achievements to be "moved" to the Mainland because researchers would also set their eyes on the massive market on the Mainland. My question is: Can we get a slice of the cake? Is it possible to, while undertaking commercialization of research achievements made in Hong Kong through setting up factories in the Mainland for production, still establish the important logistics support base in Hong Kong to make good use of the Hong Kong brand? Come to think about it―and I also believe that―a drone with a "Made in Hong Kong" tag would carry added value. In this connection, does the Government have a strategy and specific direction? Definitely, it may not necessarily be a task assigned to ITC only, but it may also involve the overall policy of the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, and it may even concern how the Innovation and Technology Bureau ("ITB") can make good use of the concept of the Hong Kong brand in considering the promotion of re-industrialization.
The Secretary for Innovation and Technology has once proudly asserted that many unicorn start-ups have emerged in Hong Kong in recent years. While we do not deny that improvements have been made in the environment for start-ups, the nature of such enterprises mostly concerns Internet application. Exactly can they drive a series of industry chain development and industrial production? Or, can such "unicorns" apply their knowledge or big data, while leveraging the freedom of information in Hong Kong and capitalizing on the application of the Internet, to achieve the establishment and success of a local enterprise? Nevertheless, from such a perspective, we still face a gap in the real economy, that is the unidirectional nature of researches conducted in Hong Kong because we fear that, when the overall local production cost is so high, the commercialization of research achievements cannot be sustained and incorporated into the real economy of Hong Kong. I do not know from which perspective the Financial Secretary will handle this problem.
In fact, why is such a problem so important? Because the goal of industrial diversification in Hong Kong has long remained unaccomplished, resulting in merely a small proportion of industrial output as a share of GDP. Our GDP, which largely relies on the service industry and the tertiary industry, is prone to changes in the external economy. Rightly as the Financial Secretary has stated in his opening remarks, Hong Kong is indeed facing fairly precarious days ahead, which we need to face and tackle seriously, because no one has a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9461 crystal ball to foretell how exactly Hong Kong will be affected by the trade war between China and the United States.
Moreover, in the face of the trade war between China and the United States, the Special Administration Region ("SAR") Government often regards criticisms made by the international community against the condition of "one country, two systems" in Hong Kong as interference in the territory's internal affairs. Such an attitude indeed fails to squarely address the problems. After all, Hong Kong is a city that faces the world while leveraging the Motherland, which is made possible precisely by the favourable conditions set out in "one country, two systems". However, under the current circumstances, if the Financial Secretary fails to discern the essential key element in this, a profound impact will ensue. Of course, coupled with the many challenges posed and criticisms made by the international community and various parties amid the current discussion on the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, exactly how will the overall setting of the economy of Hong Kong be affected in the future? I very much hope that I can hear the Financial Secretary give a response from such a perspective.
After discussing the work of ITC, I wish to speak on resources allocation under ITB. On this subject, actually Mr Charles Peter MOK has mentioned what attitudes should be adopted to handle and regulate allocation of resources. I remember that during our visit to Israel, we learnt that it has set up similar I&T funds and provided capital for supporting I&T enterprises to undertake technology venture projects. During our visit, what impressed me the most was the experience shared with us by the relevant personnel. They expressed that the process of I&T had suffered many setbacks and often many projects became successful only after repeated attempts and numerous blunders. Looking back at the situation of Hong Kong, during the discussions on different occasions, we have become aware that ITB subjects its resources allocation to the traditional mindset of how civil servants should use public funds.
(THE CHAIRMAN resumed the Chair)
In my opinion, improvements have to be made in two aspects in the I&T development of Hong Kong. As regards the first aspect, the authorities must be relaxed in its handling and have confidence in I&T research. I consider that 9462 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 only when the authorities have such confidence that many different ideas, experiments and visions are allowed to generate results in the course of brainstorming and free exchanges. Concerning the second aspect, we also have to put in place a relatively effective mechanism to screen projects so as to rule out some people who, on the pretext of I&T, solely intend to feed on such resources after taking the money without making any effort to implement the projects. I consider that this problem warrants careful handling. I remember that, during our visit to Israel, the relevant personnel mentioned the Israeli Government's attitude towards injecting resources into I&T development: it will be implemented if it is feasible, otherwise the next project will be attempted. Accordingly, such an attitude creates a threshold that allows easy entrance but effects difficult exit, rather than the situation that some people or companies, after being recruited to join the subsidy schemes, will receive long-term funding by the Government to explore room for development and development opportunities for their own sake, without delivering results. I consider that care should be taken in handling this aspect, otherwise, resources allocated to I&T will fail to achieve the predetermined goals and corresponding results.
The last point I wish to make is that ITB has announced the establishment of two important research clusters in Science Park, one for artificial intelligence ("AI") and robotics technologies and the other for health care technologies. I envisage that these two research clusters will fulfil their function of pooling talent in the near future. Of course, for now the results are yet to be seen, but I consider that the Government may have to channel more resources into this aspect than imagined. For instance, to develop materials science, the Mainland Government has set up the China Spallation Neutron Source as a tool to attract some scientists who are devoted to research in materials science.
Of course, I have no idea about, in the course of development of AI or biotechnology, what important state-of-the-art appliances can be used as tools for pooling talent. However, I consider that further analyses have to be made before determining how resources should be allocated to this end. At the same time, I also hope the Government will appreciate and agree that we need to race against the clock to inject resources into this respect, because our competitors are various cities (The buzzer sounded) …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU, please stop speaking.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9463
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): … in the Greater Bay Area on the Mainland.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): I notice that the Financial Secretary is in the Chamber, so I have seized this occasion to speak.
Chairman, first, I would like to speak on the following heads with no amendment: "Head 80", "Head 155―Government Secretariat: Innovation and Technology Commission", "Head 184―Transfers to Funds" and "Head 188―Treasure".
I will talk about the Financial Secretary first. He is really lucky. At first, upon the release of the Budget, his approval rating plunged headlong. This was out of my expectation. He has done what needs to be done, that is, the routine measures like "giving away candies", but still his approval rating dropped drastically. Nonetheless, on this day when we discuss the Budget, not many people are concerned about these disputes, for these disputes pale into insignificance against problems arising from the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance ("FOO") and the Greater Bay Area. For this reason, the name of the Financial Secretary, Paul CHAN, is seldom mentioned in the media recently. I have to congratulate him for this.
Regarding the targets the Financial Secretary hopes to achieve through the Budget, including the promotion of innovation and technology, retention of talents, implementation of Phase III of the Cyberport and an increase in economic activities to raise the profits of Hong Kong, can they be achieved? When the Financial Secretary is working hard, people around him messes up his work. In what way has the amendment to FOO messed up his work? I just received a letter addressed to Members of the Legislative Council from an international chamber of commerce, stating their worries about FOO. Now, not only the people of Hong Kong worry about this, the international community, that is, all Western countries with significant trading relationships with Hong Kong including European countries, the United States and the United Kingdom, have also expressed concern. The trading relationship between these countries and Hong Kong is complicated. They criticize the authorities for amending FOO, for they fear that upon the passage of the amendment to FOO, the interests of their businessmen and nationals in Hong Kong will no longer be protected. As for the next step, that is, whether they will still choose to enter Asia through Hong Kong or set up their headquarters in Hong Kong, this will be questionable.
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Now, when the Government is spending substantial amounts of money on various measures, including the "giving away of candies", reduction of profits tax, tax rebates and the various arrangements to reinforce development in innovation and technology which I have just mentioned, to attract more talents and overseas investment to Hong Kong, some people are messing it up. Chief Executive Carrie LAM is messing it up. I am not sure if it is her idea or that of the Central Authorities. She says that the amendment to FOO must be implemented and the reason for doing so is to handle the Taiwan homicide case. Regarding this reason, we have all seen it clearly. The Mainland Affairs Council of Taiwan stated that three attempts had been made to contact her but in vain. Taiwan has also made it clear that under the existing amendment to FOO, Taiwan will be regarded as part of China, so Taiwan will not accept this. Despite all this, she continues to ride roughshod over these views.
Yesterday, prior to the meeting of the Executive Council, Carrie LAM said that the Secretary for Justice and the Security for Security would give speeches in the afternoon. We thought they might present some "new approaches" and she might have heeded the views of the public. Regrettably, despite all of their remarks, the only conclusion is that none of the proposals put forth except hers is practicable. This is outrageous. I call this messing up. She is driving people away.
Regarding the economic environment in Hong Kong, I recall the Financial Secretary saying that dark clouds are looming over the horizon. I agree with this, and we do not know what will happen next year. The United States President, Donald TRUMP, is playing tricks and changing his stance every day. On one day, he said he wanted negotiations, but after that, he announced a raise in tariffs. Nonetheless, we have no say. He has all the power to make any decision. We cannot but plead with all gods that he will not act recklessly. As for LIU He, his back and forth trips for negotiations are no more than vain attempts.
Under such circumstance, more often than not, we will say that Hong Kong can only count on ourselves. In other words, we have to do our part, be steadfast in implementing "one country, two systems" and to ensure the quality of judicial services in Hong Kong, as mentioned under "Head 80―Judiciary". We must made every effort to do our part to ensure that everyone, including foreign investors and other people in Hong Kong, will still consider Hong Kong unique and "one country, two systems" will continue to be implemented, and that their rights and interests will be protected at the very least. Nonetheless, this is not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9465 the case now. Now, the authorities are telling people that Hong Kong will soon implement "one country, one system", whereas the amendment to FOO is a typical demonstration of the end of "one country, two systems". The most important message conveyed by the relevant arrangements is that people staying in Hong Kong are subject to the legal sanctions of the Mainland. This is the saddest message. Apart from her, other people are also messing up the work of the Financial Secretary. He is Ronny TONG, my former comrade, who is now a Member of the Executive Council. He said …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, please come back to the question of this debate.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am coming back to the question of this debate, and I am discussing with the Financial Secretary the practicability of innovation and technology ("I&T") …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please focus your discussion on the head covering the estimate for I&T.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): I am coming back to the question. He said, "You may as well emigrate if you are not happy with this." He really said that. Members may check the latest news. Hong Kong is now in dire straits …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Even if he did say so, it is irrelevant to the present debate. Please come back to the question now under debate.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am now discussing the effectiveness of promoting I&T. As the objective of promoting I&T is to retain talents and capital, it is definitely the desire of the Government to promote I&T by allocating tens of billions of dollars to handouts. Since the main duties of the Financial Secretary, who is now sitting in the Chamber, is to revitalize the economy, I have to discuss these issues with him here. I have never thought that a person would resort to chopping off one's limbs. When the Financial Secretary 9466 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 announced the Budget, the FOO amendment had not yet been proposed and the situation was not as bad as now when we are pressurized by the amendment to FOO. According to the comments of the Government which I heard, the Government is determined and supercilious that the amendment must be implemented and better be completed before the expiry of the current legislative session in July …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, this is my final warning, please come back to the question of this debate. You have spent more than six minutes discussing matters irrelevant to the Budget, so please come back to the question of this debate.
DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): I will now come back to the question of this debate.
We are discussing the use of funding and various funds for the Innovation and Technology Commission ("ITC"). The Budget this time around involves a number of funds. In fact, the Financial Secretary is merely following the tradition, and he is not the pioneer who started using this approach. In fact, the Financial Secretaries of previous terms have also introduced all kinds of funds, such as the Innovation and Technology Fund and funds concerning information technology. The only purpose of doing so is to provide impetus for the economy of Hong Kong. Yet, some people are doing exactly the opposite now. Hence, I would like to hear the views of the Financial Secretary, even though the Financial Secretary is benefiting from this arrangement indirectly, for he is no longer the lowest in approval rating when the one sitting beside him has got an even lower rating. Yet, this is not a good thing. We would not feel happy because the popularity rating of "Tereasa―Secretary of illegal structure" is low. We certainly hope that the Secretary for Justice who is leading the rule of law in Hong Kong will have a good approval rating. For when the Secretary for Justice has a high approval rating, it means that the people of Hong Kong and the world have trust in the judicial and legal systems of Hong Kong. Yet if her approval rating is low, the situation will be just the opposite. In fact, I hope that the former scenario will come true. Nonetheless, I have to point out that even if the Government spends lavishly now to promote I&T, allocate funding for various funds, disbursing handouts through the Treasury and allocating funds for the Rating and Valuation Department to arrange for rates concession, it will be in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9467 vain. A single mistake made by the Government will send Hong Kong into the lion's den, and all our hard work in the past will be rendered futile. What a misfortune!
In fact, Hong Kong can be spared this misfortune. We should uphold the hard-won "one country, two systems", independent economic system, the respected legal system and the clear unambiguous judicial system, and so on. But now, we are burying all of these ourselves. This is really lamentable. I do not know whether the 33 heads under the Appropriation Bill 2019 will benefit Hong Kong, yet I am pessimistic about this. A single incident may obliterate all the hard work. It is very easy for the Government to pick one incident to ruin Hong Kong. Some say it is hard to build up anything but easy to destroy it. If a person is dragged at his leg, he will get on his knees immediately. The amendment to FOO is exactly this case. The amendment to the Ordinance will ruin Hong Kong. In other words, despite the hundreds of billions of dollars expended, it will bring no benefits in actuality and the Government is merely doing so for self-gratification.
To put it bluntly, some people say that it does not matter whether or not the rule of law is sound, for they consider it most important to have the Greater Bay Area and the Belt and Road Initiative. I really hope that those people will think it over. If no one feels assured in making investments in Hong Kong, if the chambers of commerce of overseas countries do not consider Hong Kong a safe place and when various overseas governments consider that the amendment to FOO will ruin the "one country, two systems" of Hong Kong, the economy of Hong Kong will be "game over". When the economy of Hong Kong is "game over", can the Financial Secretary give no regard to this and continue allocating $600 billion to one area and another $600 billion to another? How can he continue giving away candies merrily? By the time inward investment decreases, he can no longer spend hundreds of billions of dollars casually.
I have to make an important remark. We all know that currently, capital from the Mainland is essential to the real estate and economic activities. Certainly, I do not know how many corrupt officials are among them, but they are coming to Hong Kong to make investments. Yet, when they know that Hong Kong is no longer a place they can invest their capital, I wonder who will purchase the luxury flats? This is a cause for concern to the Government, for the Government adopts the high land price policy and relies on the sales of land, the 9468 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 colossal amount of stamp duty and income from real estate to support the Government. Members know at heart that the real estate developers and the Government have "hidden information exchanges". Yet, the ultimate approach to driving people away is to drive away all the money from corrupt Mainland officials or political parties, as well as all the others. By then, we can announce that Hong Kong is absolutely "game over" and will be left luckless.
Though the Chairman often criticizes me of straying from the subject, I think my comments are definitely relevant. The Chairman also comes from the business sector and knows that the business sector in Hong Kong is discontent, worried that the amendment to FOO will affect them direct. In fact, people on our side will not be much affected, for not many of us are in the business sector and we are not qualified to make investments. Yet, we know that the amendment will affect the livelihood of tens of millions of people and we must make our voice heard. If the Government insists on amending FOO, the funding allocated under the 33 heads, or even a double amount of such funding to ITC, will be in vain and Hong Kong will be left luckless.
I still have some speaking time. As Secretary Prof Sophia CHAN is in the Chamber, I would seize the opportunity to point out that the allocation of funding to the Department of Health ("DH") by the Government this time around is incorrect. I strongly oppose the approach of continual distribution of elderly health care vouchers as a means to provide primary health care services. She knows that it is not helpful. Why would health care vouchers be introduced back then? At that time, the Government did not have adequate resources to build a sufficient number of elderly health centres. It then thought of disbursing money to the elderly as a remedy. Initially, the amount disbursed was around $1,000 to $2,000, but now the amount is much higher and the accumulation limit of these elderly health vouchers is as high as $6,000 to $8,000. Yet, according to our observation, this is not helpful. Fortunately, the authorities have made amendments recently, so that the elderly will no longer use their health care vouchers for the prescription of expensive designer spectacles like LV. Nonetheless, they may still use their health care vouchers to buy dried fish maw.
It should not be like that, for the amount involved, $3 billion, is a substantial amount. Had the Government been serious in implementing some measures to deal with the problems, the $3 billion funding could be sufficient for the construction of several elderly health centres and addressing the primary LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9469 health care needs of the elderly, women and children, targets which cannot be achieved by distributing health care vouchers. Health care vouchers can in no way achieve these objectives. The authorities may use the sum of money to facilitate the early identification of learning difficulties to benefit more children and increase the funding for children with learning difficulties to enable them to seek early consultation from required therapists, psychologists and child psychiatrists. Such an arrangement will alleviate the plights of children with learning difficulties and the elderly, and help Hong Kong citizens between the age of 50 and 70 who have never done any check-ups. Under the existing arrangement, the $3 billion funding provided by the Government will not help them. They may spend the money casually on the purchase of dried fish maw, spectacles or other things. If so, how can this reinforce the primary health care services? Why does the Government choose to maintain this measure?
Moreover, in respect of DH, the case is not that they cannot recruit the required doctors, only that the authorities have insisted on upholding the obsolete approaches and outdated systems and refused to make improvement, thereby preventing doctors from entering the health care system. The Under Secretary is not unaware that many doctors would like to join dermatology, but they have no access to the discipline. Then, the authorities make the excuse that there is a shortage of doctors (The buzzer sounded) … it is really ridiculous.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK, please stop speaking.
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Chairman, Dr KWOK Ka-ki mentioned the Department of Health ("DH") just now, and let me also say a few words on DH. I noticed that DH actually has something to do with my profession as it is related to the Civil Aviation Department ("CAD"). I wonder if the Secretary knows that CAD has two SMOs sent by DH. But interestingly enough, DH did not send them to CAD direct, for they were sent to the Labour Department ("LD") first and then LD sent them to CAD.
Let me start with the importance of these two posts. Any pilot who does not have a so-called medical certificate cannot fly and simply put, he will be out of job. Who has this power to make a determination? This power lies to a certain extent in the hands of the two SMOs in CAD, while four other doctors in 9470 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 private practice can also do this job in their capacity as AMA; there are two in CAD and one in LD. That is all. If any pilot in Hong Kong has his medical certificate revoked for some reasons, they are the ones responsible for making this decision.
I mentioned this point because I have seen problems with the judgment of these two doctors in respect of some cases in the past. Of course, some matters have to be determined by the profession and with regard to professional matters, we may not be in a position to make intervention but as a Member of the Legislative Council, I think I have to draw attention to the problem in administration. Why am I saying this? As far as I know, in other departments, such as the Food and Health Bureau, there are also doctors sent by DH. According to their line of reporting, they will first report to a PAS in the Food and Health Bureau and then the PAS will report to a DS, and then the report will go back to DH. In the process, only the department where they work is involved before the report goes back to DH. All the other departments also adopt this practice and under the entire government structure, only CAD has adopted a different practice―please correct me if I am wrong but I have checked it up very clearly―under the entire government structure, only these two SMOs in CAD have such a strange reporting system. Because first, he has to report to his superior at the rank of D1 in CAD, just as his appraisal is written by an officer at D1. Then the report will be submitted to a medical consultant in LD for review, and then an endorsement will have to be obtained before the report will be ultimately handed to DH. Three departments are involved here.
I have enquired about the reasons for it and according to the reply that I was given, LD is involved for it is responsible for work relating to occupation. But when I asked whether any other countries in the world have adopted this practice, the Hong Kong Government was unable to give an answer. They may argue that the studies on aviation medicine fall under the faculty relating to occupational medicine, which means that occupational medicine should cover the aviation profession. But this is only the arrangement for academic studies. It does not mean that the Government's structure should follow it. I cannot find any place elsewhere in the world where this practice is adopted, and as far as I know, this is not the practice in Singapore either. Hong Kong may not be a large territory or country and we often make a comparison with Singapore but this is not the practice of Singapore either. This is why I always wonder if there will be difficulties in exercising control and supervision. In this connection, I have met with the relevant government departments, and as DH will submit to the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9471
Finance Committee its funding application for reorganization, I will bring up this issue then and I hope I can have an answer. As I have said, I do not intend to deal with the question of whether the doctors' professional judgment is right or wrong. But the entire reporting system is so weird. This is my only view on DH.
Besides, I also wish to talk about the Government Flying Service ("GFS"). I have always been very supportive of this government department. They are going to develop the Flight Simulator Training Centre, which has been approved by the Public Works Subcommittee. I hope that it can be completed early. But as I have always said, the biggest problem with GFS is that its Head of Department is not at the rank of a Director. Hong Kong has a number of disciplined forces and only the Controller of GFS, despite being a Head of Department, has on his shoulder one insignia less. As I already said last year, the ranking shown by the insignias on his shoulder is equivalent to Assistant Director of other disciplined forces. If it is because this department is small in scale that his post cannot be pitched at the rank of D6 or D5, this is open to discussion, and it can be examined in the forthcoming organizational review of the disciplined forces. However, what I am talking about is not a question of money or ranking. What I consider unacceptable is: Do the insignias on his shoulder show that this person is a Head of Department? I think this is the biggest problem. Before the reunification, it was still acceptable to argue that since it was the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force and as it was obviously an auxiliary air force, it was not a single or unitary department and therefore, even though he was Head of Department, his rank could not be pitched at one of a Director. It was still acceptable to put it that way, but what about after the reunification? There is no relationship between what the insignias on his shoulder show and whether he is ranked at D3, D4, D5 or D6. If you say that they are related, then think about this: We all know that the salary of the Commissioner of Police is higher than that of the Director of Immigration as both are Heads of Department, but do we see that the insignias on the shoulder of the Director of Immigration are only the insignias of a Deputy Director? This should not be the case, right? Therefore, actually we need not wait for the organizational review that I mentioned just now to settle this matter. It is not a matter of money, nor is it a matter of resources. Do not tell me that an additional insignia will cost a lot more money. This is just impossible.
However, I think this is a question of respect for this department and respect for its Head of Department. We always say that there is a shortage of pilots and that those joining GFS have great enthusiasm and are dedicated to 9472 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 serving Hong Kong wholeheartedly. This is true, and although the market outside the Government offers greener pasture … Actually the wastage is still very high. I already talked about the rate of its wastage last year and I will not make any repetition here. This is also why it is necessary to carry out an organizational review, for the high wastage rate is exactly one of the reasons. On the one hand, you give pats on people's shoulders, asking a favour from them to support the teams of Hong Kong but you treat a Head of Department in such a way on the other. Why is there one insignia less on his uniform?
Likewise, a doctor is a doctor, disregarding whether the fees charged by him are expensive or inexpensive. He will not be addressed as "deputy doctor" because he charges low fees. No, this will not be the case. Therefore, I hope that the relevant authorities can expeditiously address this issue after listening to these views because it does not involve money and the only person from which consent has to be sought is the Secretary for Security. So long as the Secretary for Security can give his consent, an additional insignia can be put on his uniform, so that when he comes out, he has the identity of a Director. I hope that this view can be conveyed to the relevant authorities.
Moreover, I would like to talk about CAD. CAD will introduce a bill on unmanned aircraft systems ("UAS"). I have said to CAD time and again that it cannot pay attention only to the formulation of a bill. What is it going to do in future? How about the staff establishment? We all know that UAS has been developing rapidly, and whether in the Mainland or overseas countries, this momentum of development is unstoppable and irresistible, and this is certainly a major trend. But in Hong Kong, there is no officer of directorate grade who is specifically made responsible for this area of work, or at least there is none in CAD as far as I know. But as I have just said, the future development will be most vigorous. Since work is being carried out to formulate the relevant legislation, does CAD have the necessary manpower to provide support? If not, will the shortage of manpower impede the development of UAS in Hong Kong? No one would wish to see this happen. So, I am not suggesting that the department's budget should be cut, but unnecessary expenditures should be avoided and only necessary expenditures should be made. Do not only query why approval is not given to the creation of new posts. This is what I most wish to say.
Furthermore, I also wish to say a few words on the Civil Aid Service ("CAS"). I was a member of the CAS Cadet Corps when I was small. Over the years, it seems that CAS has not been taken as a government department. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9473
Yesterday, in the Panel on Security, we also discussed the need to enhance the role of CAS, especially its role in providing assistance on scene in the event of typhoon or other disasters. Of course, some people may say that CAS is already performing these functions now. Certainly they are. They have a mountain search and rescue team, and various other specialty rescue teams. But can they do a bit better? In terms of the organizational structure, can they play a greater role to make up for, say, the manpower shortage of the Fire Services Department ("FSD")? Of course, consideration has to be given to the proportionality between the danger of operations and the training provided for them, so as to enable them to undertake the said tasks.
I think it is now time for a review to be conducted on CAS, especially as it is named Civil Aid Service. Therefore, can CAS play a better role, so that it will not give the impression that it is only a uniform group, such as―this is not derogatory―the scout association or the Auxiliary Medical Service ("AMS"), because to a certain extent, CAS seems to be only a voluntary uniform group. I think CAS should not be like this. It should do better in some areas of work, and what is more, will legislation be enacted to give CAS more powers and more responsibilities?
Let us take a look at the provisions for CAS, which amount to some $120 million. I do not know if this is a large amount or a small one, and among this group of departments, it is probably the department with the least provisions. Of course, there is also AMS, and in this session, let me also say a few words on AMS. Actually, the case of AMS is just the same. Can it assume more duties to make up for the shortage of health care workers? Are there better ways to utilize the resources of AMS or even provide additional resources for it to carry out work in this respect? This is the same as the case of CAS that I have just mentioned. Honestly, I think the Government has seldom mentioned these departments over the years and even in this Chamber, I doubt if Members have mentioned them before, though I cannot say that absolutely no mention has been made of them.
On the other hand, I wish to take this opportunity to command FSD. As we can see, no Member has proposed a reduction of the provisions for FSD this time around. This shows that FSD has done a great job, and I hope they will make continuous efforts to serve Hong Kong in providing emergency services and rescuing people's lives.
I so submit.
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I will first call upon Mr CHU Hoi-dick and Mr CHAN Chi-chuen to speak. Then I will call upon public officers to speak. After public officers have spoken, the debate on the first session will come to a close.
MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will speak on "Head 30―Correctional Services Department" this time. The overall expenditure estimate of the Correctional Services Department ("CSD") covers not only the salaries and fringe benefits of the civil servants, but also the expenditure for the care of the 8 310 prisoners or inmates currently. Since there is an increase in the expenditure estimate, we should examine whether such an increase will be expended on prison management, that is, on CSD staff, or on the inmates.
CSD's overall expenditure this year on both Programme (1) Prison Management and Programme (2) Re-integration has increased. The expenditure on prison management increases from $2.98 billion to $3.1 billion, representing a 3.8% increase of $1,100 million. Regrettably, the greater part of the increase will be expended on CSD staff. For instance, the expenditure on personal emoluments will increase from $2.988 billion to $3.0814 billion, representing a 3% increase of nearly $100 million. However, as far as inmates are concerned, the estimated expenditure on Subhead 118―Provisions for institutions, Subhead 193―Earnings scheme for persons in custody and on welfare for persons in custody have not seen any increase in this and the last financial years. We can, therefore, see a great disparity between the two.
I believe many Honourable colleagues must have made official visits to prisons. In fact, inmates have raised to us two major issues, namely provisions and earnings, which I will talk about here today.
Chairman, as mentioned by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen just now, the expenditure on provisions in 2018-2019 was $78.89 million, so is it for this financial year (2019-2020), which means no increase. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen said the expenditure should be increased in accordance with inflation, but I believe that alone is not enough. What does a $78.89 million budget on provisions for institutions represent? I assume the provisions for CSD staff are also included here, but let us leave that out. Let us say that the $78.89 million is solely for the provisions for the 8 310 prisoners or inmates. This sum of $78 million seems a lot, but for 8 310 persons, the cost per person daily is $26 only. Chairman, that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9475 means an average of $8.6 per meal. No wonder that many inmates consider the meals in prison a punishment. On top of the loss of freedom, inmates have to tolerate poor-quality meals as a punishment. I am sure CSD does not subscribe to this view, but that is the reality.
Meals can be further classified into Chinese, Western and curry meals. The cost of a western meal is obviously higher. Prisoners of foreign nationality (ON), for example Caucasians, Blacks and Latin Americans, may have Western meals of which the cost per meal is definitely a bit higher than $8.6. Accordingly, we can imagine that the cost per Chinese meal, which the majority of inmates have, is even lower.
Chairman, in fact, the Administration should implement humane and flexible meal arrangements. The canteen in the Legislative Council Complex offers Chinese, Western and curry meals every day as choices for us. Inmates are people just like us. In Hong Kong in the 21st century, how it is possible that only a certain group of people may have a certain kind of food? Secretary, if you have made visits to the prisons, how could you tolerate such a ridiculous meal system of CSD? Moreover, what food can be provided at $8.6 per meal? A flexible system should allow inmates to choose Chinese meal on Monday, Western meal on Tuesday and curry meal on Wednesday. What is the big deal about that? Why can the existing system not be changed at all?
In my opinion, the expenditure estimate on provisions for institutions will remain insignificant even if it is doubled, as it represents only 1.8% of the expenditure estimate in 2019-2020. Even if it is doubled, meaning it being increased from $78 million to $160 million, it represents only 3% of the estimated expenditure. Inmates do not have much to do behind bars. Why does the Government not let them have better meals by increasing the expenditure estimate on provisions? What is even more ridiculous, Chairman, is that, to my understanding, many inmates do not have enough to eat. What would they do when they want more food? They would see the doctor. CSD staff would ask them to see the doctor to prove that they are ill and would be sick if they do not have one more bowl of rice. Only in this way will they get one more bowl of rice to eat. But why would any doctor give such a medical advice? As a result, inmates would rather starve than see the doctor. I have learnt during a visit that the detention periods of some inmates were prolonged by three days for keeping raisin buns from breakfast or lunch for the evening because they were too hungry.
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Furthermore, I would like to talk about the earnings scheme for persons in custody under this head. The budget for this subhead in 2019-2020 is $39.22 million, which means also no increase in comparison with the previous financial year. The reason for the unchanged expenditure estimate is quite special. According to the Government, the expenditure estimate for inmates' earnings remains unchanged at $39.22 million this financial year because there is no change to the prices of snacks, hence, no need to improve the living conditions of persons in custody. So, the expenditure can simply remain unchanged from last year. Chairman, it is difficult to figure out what does the $39.22 million budget for inmates' earnings represent with the information provided by the Administration alone. The $39.22 million budget for 8 310 inmates represents $46 to $199 per person weekly. We are talking about weekly earnings. The hourly rate of new inmates is less than $1, as they are rookies. Calculated on the basis of 6 to 10 working hours per day, their hourly rate is less than $1.
Surely, CSD can cite a lot of reasons for this situation. It explained that food is provided―but do not forget that the food provided is terrible, which costs merely some $8 a meal―accommodation, clothing, etc are provided, so the rewards cannot be considered as wages but money for snacks only. However, inmates do actually work. The books in public libraries are all bound by inmates in prison. Many signposts, road signs and uniforms of civil servants are manufactured or processed by inmates. They are indeed doing the work, so why is it not considered as wages?
We are not asking the Government to pay inmates the minimum wage. Chairman, however, I really do not understand why CSD maintains the $1 hourly rate. Let me repeat, we should not forget that the annual estimated expenditure on the earnings scheme for persons in custody is $39.22 million, accounting for less than 1% of the total expenditure of CSD. Just like the expenditure on provisions, the estimated expenditure for the earnings scheme for persons in custody should not only be increased in accordance with inflation, it should actually be doubled. Inmates have already lost their freedom, why can we not let them afford a couple more packets of biscuits or―I do not encourage smoking―a pack of cigarettes?
Chairman, another question that I would like to raise is that, to me, the content of the head cannot truly reflect the effectiveness CSD's work. Some indicators are listed under the head. For example, the indicators of prison management include the number of persons in custody, occupancy rate of prisons, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9477 number of escapees and number of concerted acts of indiscipline, etc. Not that these figures should not be listed, but in regard to the provisions that I have just mentioned, should the number of medical consultations or hospital admissions not also be included as an indicator to reflect inmates' health level? Frequent medical consultations or hospital admissions of inmates due to malnutrition can really show that there are problems in prison management. However, these figures are not included in the indictors, so we do not have a clear picture of the situation. We were told by inmates during visits that they are suffering from skin diseases. However, dermatology consultation is arranged once every six months, and the prescribed ointment can only last two to three months. So what can they do in the remaining three months? They can only endure the itchiness. When they asked CSD if more frequent medical consultations can be arranged, they were always told that resources were inadequate.
In addition, the most important item is omitted from the indictors under Programme (2): Re-integration. Most indictors concern matters within the supervision period, such as using the number of early discharges and training centre or rehabilitation centre programmes to indicate the recidivism rate of rehabilitated offenders. However, the core indictor is missing here, and that is, with the re-integration support, job opportunities and training provided by the Government, how many released prisoners committed crimes and were put behind bars again outside the supervision period? Such figures are not provided under the head. Is it not the most important indicator for us to understand the situation?
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): For starters, I would like to speak on "Head 45―Fire Services Department". In the past, we have proposed amendments to the head of the Fire Services Department ("FSD"), which sought to reduce the expenditure of FSD. In the end, some people made a fuss of it, accusing us of not allocating financial provisions to FSD for fire-fighting. It so happened that some serious fire incidents broke out in that year, they then hyped up this issue. In fact, when we proposed to amend the expenditure of FSD back then, our main purpose was to reflect one of the functions of FSD, which is the ambulance service.
As we can see, the work of FSD is categorized into three programmes under head 45, namely: first, fire service; second, fire protection and prevention; and third, ambulance service. What we have been criticizing all along is that 9478 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 with regard to the expenditure of FSD on ambulance service, or the fact that ambulance personnel are treated less favourably, it can be said that a heavier emphasis is placed on fire service than ambulance service. Overall speaking, the financial provision for FSD has increased by 10.4% in this fiscal year, whilst the financial provision for ambulance service has increased by 14.6%, a rate of increase higher than the average. That said, I have no idea why the revised expenditure in 2018-2019 (i.e. the previous fiscal year) is 8.2% lower than the original estimate. In other words, the amount of funding planned for use was reduced by 8.2% in the end. In fact, ambulance personnel have always been treated less favourably than fire personnel, whether in terms of their establishment or working environment. Their working hours are relatively longer with inadequate rest time, and the arrangement for meal breaks over which we have argued in the past is very unsatisfactory as well. Most importantly, their pay points are lower than that of fire personnel. As such, I hope that the Administration will review this issue. In fact, I would make the same suggestion every year, requesting to increase the financial provision for Programme (3) with a view to improving the remuneration package for ambulance personnel in order to attract more people to apply for posts in the ambulance stream.
Next, I would like to talk about "Head 26―Census and Statistics Department". In fact, the Census and Statistics Department ("C&SD") incurs a considerable expenditure as well. The expenditure estimate for this year shows an increase of 22.8% on the whole, whereas the total expenditure for the whole year is estimated at $817.8 million. The expenditure estimate on "Programme (2) Social Statistics" has increased by 94.4%, which is the largest rate of increase among all programmes. Why is there such a significant increase? It is certainly due to the preparatory work for the 2021 Population Census ("21C") currently underway which warrants the setting up of the 21C Office. As these expenses are necessary, I have not proposed to reduce the expenditure of C&SD.
Yet, here I hope that C&SD would be particularly cautious, as the statistical data of numerous members of the public will be handled in the upcoming Population Census. Even a small mishap, such as data leakage, can lead to very serious consequences. Therefore, I have to particularly remind C&SD once again that they should handle and verify such data with extreme care, whereas security and storage work should be properly carried out. In fact, C&SD also sought an additional provision of $200 million from the Finance LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9479
Committee for the procurement and upgrade of computer equipment, systems and information technology security measures. On that occasion, many Honourable Members reminded them to pay due regard to information security, since there had been cases during the previous By-census that census officers lost two tablet computers, in which the data of a total of 46 individuals from 12 households were stored. Back then, C&SD indicated that―whether it was making a feeble defence or an explanation―they had sought advice from an internal expert of the Government, who advised that the risk of data leakage was extremely low, and even if the documents in the tablet computers could be opened, the tablet computers would turn off automatically after five minutes or 10 minutes at most, so the documents could not be opened for a long time. Yet, if I intend to retrieve the data in the tablet computers, I can obtain all the data by taking some photos even if the tablet computers can only be turned on for one minute.
Subsequently, C&SD claimed that only basic demographic data were stored in the tablet computers. It would take years for hackers to crack the password, so it was estimated that they would not spend a lot of time on decrypting the data. This is the explanation given by C&SD, but does it imply that they do not have to cautiously deal with such data collected during the statistical processes, especially in a population census? That is to say, when a tablet computer is stolen, the maximum loss is the value of the device, whilst the missing tablet computer is an issue, the data stored therein should be the most important instead. As in the case of the Registration and Electoral Office, the whereabouts of the two missing computers is still unknown up to this point. I hope that C&D would not make excuses anymore. It is a hard fact that they have made a mistake, so they should admit it frankly and make improvement.
On the other hand, I hope that C&SD can increase resources and manpower to concretely study the possibility of conducting a statistics project to collect data concerning sexual minorities. When I met with the Commissioner for Census and Statistics before the Population Census, he of course stated some of his difficulties, and I also exchanged views with him. I understand that it is a difficult task, but if C&SD does not conduct such a statistics project, we will never know the relevant figures. According to the statistics in foreign countries, sexual minorities account for 5% to 10% of the total population. It can be projected that there may be 500 000 or 700 000 sexual minorities in Hong Kong, which makes quite a large population. How can the Government formulate policies without such relevant statistical data? In addition, some problems will arise as well. For instance, some sexual minorities have got married in foreign 9480 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 countries, should they answer that they are single or married during a population census after returning to Hong Kong? We have also discussed this issue in a committee, since it is an offence for a respondent to lie in a population census. We have been given the answer that respondents need only answer what they believe in. Even for questions on gender recognition, we have been given the same reply. Therefore, I can tell sexual minorities that in respect of their gender recognition, they can report to the census officer honestly what they believe in, and they will not commit an offence in this way.
I would like to talk a little more about the Housing Department ("HD"), which is head 62, mentioned by some Members today. As a matter of fact, when we talk about the "Housing Department", we would often mix it up with the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA"). Let us take a look at head 62, in fact, only a few items of the work of HD are related to public rental housing ("PRH"), which include: Programme (1) Building Control, Programme (2) Private Housing, Programme (3) Appeal Panel (Housing), Programme (4) Rehousing of Occupants upon Clearance, and Programme (5) Support Services. Actually, I think these functions can be decentralized and handled by different departments, thus making it simpler and more straightforward. I even believe that there is no need for HD to exist, and it can be reorganized.
Take the work under Programme (1) as an example, it actually refers to the Independent Checking Unit ("ICU") of the Office of the Permanent Secretary for Transport and Housing (Housing). ICU is delegated the building control authority over buildings of HA that have been sold or otherwise disposed of under the Housing Ordinance ("HO"). The aim is for ICU to exercise building control over these former HA buildings, in accordance with the current practice of the Buildings Department ("BD") on building control of private housing, and to make a biannual report to the Director of Buildings. We would find it quite odd at hearing all this. Why is it necessary to set up a dedicated ICU to exercise building control over former HA buildings already sold in accordance with the standards of BD? Should the relevant work not be handed over to BD to make it simpler? Do the authorities consider that it is more objective and fair for a government department independent of HA to review whether the PRH of HA is in compliance with the standards of BD, so that the relevant work can be carried out without influence from HA? In this way, the same effect can be attained if BD takes up the inspection work itself. I hence believe the functions under Programme (1) can be passed onto BD, whereas the staff establishment of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9481
Programme (1) can also be incorporated into BD, with a view to enhancing the efficiency of the work of reviewing whether the housing of HA is in compliance with the standards of BD.
As for "Programme (2) Private Housing", the aim is to maintain an orderly, fair and free environment to facilitate stable and healthy development of the private residential property market. The work involved includes implementing the Residential Properties (First-hand Sales) Ordinance to regulate the sale of first-hand residential properties, and formulating legislative proposals relating to the vacant property tax. After reading such information, we will come to know that HD is actually responsible for such work. The documents involved in the sale of first-hand properties, such as the title deeds, are in fact mostly related to land administration. Why can such work not be handled by the Lands Department ("LandsD")? In view of this, I believe Programme (2) can be incorporated into LandsD. Certainly, the Government may also add a separate subhead under LandsD to deal with the regulation of the private residential property market, which may render it more effective.
The aim of Programme (4) is to rehouse residents affected by clearance actions, which is even stranger. The work under this Programme involves rehousing residents who have lost their homes in clearance actions carried out by BD or LandsD; maintaining computerized records on miscellaneous housing benefits granted by LandsD and the Urban Renewal Authority ("URA"); and providing temporary shelter to victims affected by natural disasters, emergency incidents and other government actions. In fact, cases in which any members of the public are made homeless due to actions taken by BD and LandsD should be resolved by BD and LandsD on their own, or HD should only assist them in handling such cases. Yet, such work is now placed under Programme (4) of HD. Is it somewhat strange? In addition, maintaining computerized records on miscellaneous housing benefits granted by LandsD and URA should be taken up by LandsD and URA, why should such work be handled by a third department? Consolidating my remarks made at an earlier time, Programme (4) should be placed under BD, LandsD and URA to enable the relevant departments to handle more effectively the work of assisting members of the public affected by clearance actions of the Government.
With respect to "Programme (5) Support Services", the aim is to provide efficient and effective support services for housing-related matters and infrastructure projects. Such work involves a number of departments, such as the Architectural Services Department and the Works Branch of the Development 9482 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Bureau. In fact, it can also be placed under the Transport and Housing Bureau with the aim of providing support at the bureau level. Yet, I am aware that there is only the Transport Branch but not a Housing Branch under the Transport and Housing Bureau. As such, I suggest that a Housing Branch be set up to deliver the support services currently provided by HD.
As for "Programme (3) Appeal Panel (Housing)" which I have yet to mention, this might be the only function that cannot be performed by other departments. The aim of this Programme is to provide administrative and secretarial support to the Appeal Panel (Housing) to ensure that appeals lodged under HO against the termination of leases by HA are handled in a thorough, impartial and efficient manner. Yet, as I have mentioned before, Programmes (1), (2), (4) and (5) can be handed over to other departments instead of being taken charge by HD. Such being the case, this Appeal Panel should not, and does not need to be an independent department; it should merely be an office at most. As a result, I suggest that the Head "Housing Department" should be renamed as "Office of the Appeal Panel on Subsidized Housing of the Hong Kong Housing Authority", which will actually make it simpler and more straightforward.
Given the time constraint, I shall stop here. I so submit.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Secretary for Food and Health, please speak.
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): Chairman, the examination underway in the Legislative Council concerns the sums for the 33 heads with no amendment standing part of the Schedule. The importance of the sums of these heads with no amendment standing part of the Schedule cannot be overstated. Failure to have the sums of these heads stand part of the Schedule would cause serious impacts on the Appropriation Bill 2019 ("the Bill"), rendering the departments and organizations concerned unable to provide the necessary services to the public.
To avoid any disruptions to public services and the normal functioning of the Government and ensure the early implementation of the proposals in the Budget, I implore Members to put public interest above all else, support the sums of these heads standing part of the Schedule and pass the Bill expeditiously. Thank you, Chairman.
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The debate comes to a close. I now put the question to you and that is: That the sums for the heads read out by the Clerk stand part of the Schedule. Will those in favour please raise their hands?
(Members raised their hands)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.
(Members raised their hands)
Mr CHAN Chi-chuen rose to claim a division.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr IP Kin-yuen, are you going to cast a vote?
(Mr IP Kin-yuen cast his vote)
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.
Mr Abraham SHEK, Prof Joseph LEE, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Michael TIEN, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Jimmy NG, Dr Junius HO, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr Wilson OR, 9484 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019
Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU, Mr Vincent CHENG and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion.
Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr Helena WONG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr LAM Cheuk-ting, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr KWONG Chun-yu, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin voted against the motion.
THE CHAIRMAN, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.
THE CHAIRMAN announced that there were 56 Members present, 39 were in favour of the motion and 16 against it. Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, he therefore declared that the motion was passed.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): We now proceed to the second session.
I now propose the question to you and that is: That the sums for the following heads stand part of the Schedule.
CLERK (in Cantonese): Heads 21, 22, 33, 42, 44, 47, 49, 51, 53, 55, 60, 63, 70, 72, 74, 76, 79, 82, 90, 91, 92, 95, 96, 112, 118, 122, 135, 137 to 144, 147, 148, 151, 152, 156, 158, 159, 162, 163, 168, 170, 180, 181, 186, 190 and 194.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): In this session, the committee will proceed to a joint debate on the amendments to the 51 heads read out by the Clerk just now and the sums for such heads standing part of the Schedule.
Sixteen Members have proposed a total of 56 amendments which seek to reduce the various sums for the 51 heads.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9485
I will first call upon Mr WU Chi-wai to speak and move Amendment No. 1 set out in Appendix 1A to the Script. Then, I will call upon other amendment proposers to speak in sequence, but they may not move their amendments at this stage.
After the debate, committee will first vote on each of the amendments in the order set out in Appendix 1A to the Script. Then, committee will vote on the above 51 heads standing part of the Schedule, and the Schedule standing part of the Bill.
Members have already been informed that the debate of this session will take approximately 21.5 hours.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Chairman, I move Amendment No. 1 as set out in Appendix 1A to the Script to deduct an amount approximately equivalent to the expenditure on the annual emoluments of the Chief Executive.
The Chief Executive officially assumed office on 1 July 2017. Given her capacity as a "good fighter" in the executive, former Administrative Officer and head of various government departments, people had crowned her as the "good fighter" Mrs Carrie LAM. Seeing that the "good fighter" Mrs Carrie LAM was at the helm as the Chief Executive, we had certain expectations at the very beginning, particularly because she openly declared during the election that she would tackle the "three big mountains" plaguing our society.
As we all know, the "three big mountains" are issues relating to the Link Real Estate Investment Trust, the MTR Corporation Limited and housing. In floating the idea of the "three big mountains", Mrs Carrie LAM made us think that she may hold the key to some problems unsolvable by us. Hence, many in Hong Kong have been taking a wait-and-see attitude to see what is going to happen. But certainly, we all see that the actual results are far from satisfactory. We notice that the Chief Executive only tackles livelihood issues piecemeal. As regards land formation, even if the Task Force on Land Supply has been commissioned to conduct a one-year study, she got a brainwave and suddenly put forward in the Policy Address the proposal for implementing the Lantau Tomorrow programme, saying that our problems will be resolved with the creation of artificial islands by reclamation.
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Mrs Carrie LAM has been thinking along the same lines, showing that her overall governance and approach to livelihood issues have actually failed to rise to the challenges ahead with resolve. What does it mean by "rising to the challenges ahead"? There are certainly all kinds of benefit-sharing in our society, such as the brownfields and environmental issues involving land in the New Territories, and the process of land development also sees a myriad of conflicts of interest involving real estate developers. And such problems can be resolved indeed only by a visionary and bold SAR Government with the devotion of practical efforts. But instead of doing that, she has just applied the same old tactics when tackling such issues. On the one hand, she has made use of every single small site to construct buildings for tackling housing and land issues, while on the other, she has simply adopted the old mindset, a holdover from the days when she was with the civil service, considering reclamation the best approach with which problems will easily be resolved with land reclaimed, and they will no longer be her business.
Hence, when she mooted the Lantau Tomorrow programme, she also told us that she was fighting for the future land supply of Hong Kong instead of her own gains. But just imagine this. While the shortage of land in Hong Kong is an imminent problem, our Chief Executive goes for the Lantau Tomorrow reclamation project, which may be able to produce the first piece of land only 15 years later, rather than prescribing the right remedy for this imminent problem. For such philosophy of governance, apart from saying that she has turned a blind eye to the future development of Hong Kong and shrunk back from the challenges ahead, what else can I say about her strategies for land and housing issues?
Nevertheless, on such core issues, one may say that the Chief Executive and Hong Kong people just have different opinions about the social policies of Hong Kong, and such a difference will not make her go so far as to betray the core interest of our society. But starting from the co-location arrangement, she has ceded Hong Kong's land to the jurisdiction of the Mainland by virtue of the co-location legislation. Against this background, a first move has been made to change the original geographical area of Hong Kong. Certainly, we all understand that on the premise of the co-location arrangement, a person will be subject to Mainland laws only on entering an area under the jurisdiction of the Mainland. People living in the territory of Hong Kong need not live in extreme fear or suffer from anxiety over the rule of law of the Mainland. Nevertheless, not being content with the implementation of the co-location arrangement, she LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9487 has further introduced the National Anthem Law of the People's Republic of China ("National Anthem Law"), which is actually another source of our worries as to whether it will become a tool for the SAR Government to stifle freedom of speech and creation.
Certainly, Members have presented a number of views in the scrutiny of the National Anthem Law. As to whether public concerns can be allayed, I believe only the public will know the answer. But the National Anthem Law is still subject to the jurisdiction of the Courts of Hong Kong. We have confidence in the judicial system of Hong Kong. If such cases can be adjudicated by the Courts of Hong Kong, even if the pro-democracy camp is concerned about the National Anthem Law, we still hope to, in the legislative amendment process, minimize as far as possible the associated impact on freedom of expression and creation, and ultimately, the Courts of Hong Kong will still act as our gatekeeper.
Nevertheless, midway through the scrutiny of the National Anthem Law, it suddenly conducted a mere 20-day consultation without a detailed consultation package before presenting the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 ("the Bill"). The Bill has come as a major shock for people. It has shocked not only those in the pro-democracy camp, and one should not think that the general public will see eye to eye with us just because of our instigation. It has posed an actual threat to people in Hong Kong because given "one country, two systems" and the line segregating the legal systems of Hong Kong and China, the personal freedom and safety of us in Hong Kong were originally immune from the impact of an extension of the Mainland laws and regulations. Nevertheless, the arrangements under the Bill have violated the assurance that has been here for more than two decades. Both John LEE and Mrs Carrie LAM have categorically stated that the introduction of the current Bill seeks to plug the loopholes …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU, I wish to remind you that committee is now discussing the Appropriation Bill.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Chairman, I surely know that, but I have to criticize Mrs Carrie LAM.
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Please do not digress. While I allow you to make criticisms, you should not discuss another Bill in detail.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Chairman, my criticism of Mrs Carrie LAM and my request for deducting her annual emoluments naturally have something to do with her policies on Hong Kong. How can I skip talking about her policies on Hong Kong? And her policies on Hong Kong have a bearing on the core interest of the territory …
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You may discuss her policies on Hong Kong, but should not discuss the content of another Bill in detail.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Chairman, I do not understand what you mean by "discuss in detail". Criticisms of Mrs Carrie LAM's policies on Hong Kong naturally require a detailed discussion, or else how can the general public and the audience watching the live broadcast on television possibly know why I have such views on Mrs Carrie LAM in the first place? Chairman, may I continue?
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): You may present your points, but please do not discuss a certain Bill in detail anymore.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): I have just started elaborating this point. My earlier discussion was about the impact of the National Anthem Law and the co-location arrangement on Hong Kong, pointing out that both of them were still subject to the jurisdiction of the Courts of Hong Kong. But the arrangements for surrender of fugitive offenders currently under discussion are not subject to the jurisdiction of the Courts of Hong Kong, which is a step across the line segregating our legal systems, and that is the core issue.
The point I wish to make is that in the current situation, the arrangements for surrender of fugitive offenders introduced by Mrs Carrie LAM will not possibly see justice done because the Taiwan authorities have made it clear that the arrangements for surrender of fugitive offenders have become a political LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9489 factor in their consideration of whether or not to extradite fugitive offenders. And objectively, the adoption of a one-off arrangement for surrender of fugitive offenders can actually serve as a quick solution. Based on these two reasons, we should no longer be wrapped up in the consideration of the arrangements for surrender of fugitive offenders. Furthermore, we should not forget that everyone in the SAR should actually uphold the core interest of our society. What is the core interest of our society? The answer is an effective assurance for "one country, two systems", under which a guarantee for judicial independence and full segregation from the legal system of the Mainland are of paramount importance.
John LEE's reply yesterday actually revealed an important description of the Bill by the SAR Government led by Mrs Carrie LAM. He indicated that he and the SAR Government would act as a gatekeeper for all applications for surrender of fugitive offenders. But according to him, refusal of surrender of nationals to other countries will be possible only at the country level. He has sidestepped the question and even disclosed the bottom line, that is, in the context of "one country", we are not in a position to turn down a request from the Central Government to the Hong Kong Government for surrender of fugitive offenders, which is precisely the crux of the issue.
Chairman, as the Chief Executive, she is actually duty-bound to break the deadlock for our society with superb political skills when tackling a complicated and controversial issue. But instead of applying feasible measures, she has stirred up conflicts and disputes in society. We can only press the Government for a reply by taking to the streets, and what we get is a reply from the Acting Chief Executive that turnout is not a big concern.
Yesterday we heard Teresa CHENG's remark that none of the proposal was viable. Just think about the origin of such mentality of governance of the SAR Government. It naturally originated from the head of the SAR Government. Mrs Carrie LAM has failed to give full play to her inborn wisdom in her entire governance. She was the top student almost every year, who even broke into tears when she came second. But instead of giving full play to her wisdom, she has dealt a severe blow to the core interest of our society with the powers in her hands. On hearing comments from other countries, chambers of commerce or the business sector, she has dismissed them as nonsense which can be ignored.
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Responding to the latest report by the United States-China Economic and Security Review Commission, her subordinate remarked that the economic and trade relations between Hong Kong and the United States are not based on the views of a congress or parliament on Hong Kong's internal affairs, but rather on mutually beneficial terms. Nevertheless, given that Hong Kong is an international city, all the opinions from the global community on Hong Kong are closely related to us. Just imagine if we tell people that Hong Kong, as a Special Administrative Region, can simply close the door and say "If we tell you it's okay, then it is", and with such governance, how can the SAR Government usher us into a new phase in the future, and how can Hong Kong become an attractive talent pool? Hence, (The buzzer sounded) … I move my amendment.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WU, please stop.
Mr WU Chi-wai moved the following motion:
"RESOLVED that head 21 be reduced by $5,092,800 in respect of subhead 000."
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That Amendment No. 1 moved by Mr WU Chi-wai be passed.
Mr KWONG Chun-yu, please speak.
MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Cantonese): Chairman, I move Amendment No. 2 as set out in Appendix 1A to the Script to reduce the expenditure of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") on euthanasia of animals by $1.3 million
Chairman, seizing the opportunity of the Secretary being present, in the next 10-odd minutes of my speaking time, I wish to try my best to give Members a clearer picture of why we request that the expenditure on euthanasia be reduced and whether or not the policy of euthanasia in Hong Kong is humane.
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Members, first, I wish to talk about the incident of "Thai puppy" that happened earlier on. A puppy accidentally boarded a ship in Thailand and came to Hong Kong. On arrival, this piece of news found its way to Thailand and its owner was delighted. It turned out that this little puppy had been on the ship for almost six days and the owner wanted very much to be reunited with it, so he followed this matter up. However, once the ship berthed at Hong Kong, its crew sought the assistance of a government department in Hong Kong, that is, AFCD. Officers of AFCD went to the location concerned and took the puppy away, saying that they had their established procedures and would check the condition of the puppy first.
What struck me in particular in this incident is that in the morning on the next day of the incident, I already wrote to the then Director of Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation to request him to spare the puppy's life because it actually had an owner, only that it had boarded a ship and come to Hong Kong by mistake, so it definitely must not be euthanased. While I was writing this letter, I even had the thought that there was perhaps no need to do so because normally, it was necessary to wait for four days. Little did we expect that in the evening of the same day, AFCD issued a press release saying that the puppy had been "dealt with humanely. It did not even say "euthanased", rather, it had been "dealt with humanely". This incident even caused an international uproar because all people found this unacceptable. Was it not said that arrangements were being made for the puppy to be reunited with its owner? What is wrong with Hong Kong for it to have such a strange policy on euthanasia? Even a wait for four days was not deemed acceptable. Originally, it was said that the little puppy would be kept for four days, so why was it put down less than 24 hours after arriving in Hong Kong?
At that time, there was a signature campaign which in the final count saw the participation of over 50 000 people, who criticized Hong Kong's AFCD simply and forthrightly as a "downright international scandal". The "remedial" action taken by AFCD in the aftermath was to point out that according to the Rabies Ordinance (Cap. 421), AFCD had to carry out disease control, so the relevant practice was not applicable and would not be applied to non-local dogs. Neither the Hong Kong public nor the people and animal protection groups in Thailand found this ground or excuse convincing.
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In the final analysis, AFCD made a mistake in this matter and this brought forth one issue, that is, is the policy of euthanasia in Hong Kong humane? Chairman, I pointed out the year before that each year, Hong Kong would spend over $1 million on euthanasia but the funding for animal rescue organizations stood at $600,000 at that time. More money is expended on killing animals than saving them, so this is most ironical and absurd. Some slight improvement can perhaps be seen this year because the expenditure on animal rescue has increased compared to that last year and at least, it exceeded $1 million this year but we can see that the expenditure of $1.3 million on euthanasia is still here.
Some people may say that this amendment proposed by me is not feasible but I have to go ahead nonetheless. Chairman, if we do not initiate a discussion and the Administration just applies to the Legislative Council for more than $1 million through the Appropriation Bill, so that AFCD can perform euthanasia on animals every year and consider this to be the end of the matter, is this the way of dealing with things? Can the problem be solved in this way? Are those not lives? Do those dogs, cats and animals not have feelings? Last year, 1 300 dogs were captured and 1 000 killed; 500 cats were captured and 300 killed. After they were killed, it looks as though the problem no longer exists and has been solved. The aim of the amendment proposed by me is to voice the hope that the Government will start to consider if a long-term plan can be formulated to gradually reduce the emphasis on or phase out the measure of euthanasia . These are stray animals and they have done nothing wrong. Being a stray is nothing wrong per se and they do not want to be strays either. Does anyone think that all the cats and dogs want to be homeless and go hungry each night, not knowing where they can get food, and having to rummage through garbage at refuse collection points? Then, human beings think that they are a nuisance. This I understand but do we owe them something? Because we are doing a poor job of dealing with the problem at source.
I know that the Secretary has launched a consultation exercise on legislation for animal welfare. On the one hand, the Government is introducing changes to the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance (Cap. 169), and on the other, we really have to take advantage of this social environment of the entire Hong Kong society finally attaching importance to animal welfare to review the policies and laws related to animals in this city at the same time. I understand that euthanasia is a very thorny issue but at least, it is time we considered refraining from allocating $1 million in public funds each year to killing animals as a solution to the problem. For example, can the effectiveness of "capture, neuter and return" be reviewed? If this measure is feasible, I suggest that it be LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 9493 extended it to all the 18 districts in Hong Kong. As another example, can the current adoption policy be reformed, so that it will no longer be the case that the cats and dogs, having been sent to animal management centres, can never come out alive again?
At present, the four animal management centres under the management of AFCD do not allow adoption by ordinary members of the public because of the high risks involved and only accredited organizations are allowed to adopt animals. However, currently, there are only about a dozen of them on the list. Just imagine: If you are a dog or cat and for some reasons unknown, after being captured, you go into an animal management centre, are confined in a cage and wait there for four days―Chairman, only four days―and if no one makes any claim, you will be killed and it is believed that in this way, the problem has been solved and you become a figure on the paper submitted to the Legislative Council each year. Should this be the way that this matter is dealt with?
Cats and dogs cannot speak the human tongue and there is no one to express their views for them. KWONG Chun-yu is speaking up for them here and people may laugh at me for speaking for them. Fine, being ridiculed does not matter but I wish to state one fact, that is, if we do not reform the animal management centres, so that they have a revolving door to facilitate adoption by the public, the Legislative Council, in approving this sum of some $1 million lightly to let AFCD perform euthanasia, will only make the problem recur, and it will still be here after a decade.
As the saying goes, "知其不可為而為之(appreciating the difficulty of a task but attempting it anyway)", I know that in the end, this amendment proposed by me will not be passed but still, I have to propose it, because I want Members to do some thinking. In the past, Taiwan was dubbed "twelve nights" because animals that were not claimed after waiting for 12 nights would be euthanased. In recent years, Taiwan has gradually implemented a policy of "zero killing" but we admit frankly that they have also encountered such problems as the lack of space, manpower and resources for management centres; still, they are addressing the problem courageously. What about Hong Kong? GANDHI said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.". The Secretary also keeps and takes care of animals. If an animal in her arms is sent to AFCD, killed after four days and the problem is considered solved, is this really the way to solve problems? This involves logical and philosophical thinking: Does killing animals mean solving a problem and can 9494 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 their life or death be decided by us human beings? Have we ever thought about how they initially came to this world? Initially, they were abandoned animals or were kept on construction sites. Maybe a construction site was set up and a dozen or two dogs were kept. After a construction project has been completed, these dogs become strays. As to abandoned animals, some people bought dogs, took them home and after playing with them for some time, they did not like them, so they abandoned them, as if nothing had happened.
On these issues, we will have a major debate on an animal welfare law when it comes to the amendment to the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance (Cap. 169). These strays come from one source and they end up in animal management centres, where they are euthanased. Indeed, they are killed and there are no more problems because they no longer exist. In the past, no one queried this approach, so today, I will be the one to raise questions because I think there are problems. Many Hong Kong people also think that there are problems and the claim of the department concerned is that it does not have enough space and manpower. If there is not enough space, additional resources should be allocated and if there is not enough manpower, additional staff should be recruited, rather than continuing to adopt a simplistic solution in dealing with problems involving animals with heart beat and breath.
In this year's amendment, I have made a request solemnly. Even though I do not expect to see any success this year, I will continue to propose it next year. So long as I am a Legislative Council Member, I will propose an amendment to cut the expenditure for disposing of animals humanely. I just will not let them use the funds to engage in wanton killing so easily and then consider the problem solved.
Chairman, in fact, 2019 may be a crucial year for animal rights in Hong Kong. The law on animal welfare is now undergoing public consultation and I believe many members of the public, apart from requesting an increase in the penalties for ill-treating animals and brutally torturing animals to death, are also concerned about whether or not there will be any improvement or reform in the issue of euthanasia. I only have a most humble request, that is, can improvements be made incrementally? If something cannot be done this year, at least, there can be a small reduction next year, then a further reduction in the year after the next. Apart from killing the animals, can alternatives be considered, or can consideration be given to extending the waiting period of four days before administering euthanasia? Is it necessary to set it at four days? This is a most humble request indeed.
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The same is true of the incident of "Thai puppy", which I mentioned at the beginning of my speech. Why do I have such a deep impression of this incident? I attended the farewell ceremony for the "Thai puppy". A group of people concerned about this matter arranged a cremation ceremony for it. I originally thought that the "Thai puppy" was quite large in size but on arriving at the venue, it turned out that it was actually small in size. It so happened that part of the proof that the "Thai puppy" ever existed was a photo taken by AFCD before it administered to it. I do not quite understand why that photo was taken and why that photo cropped up. On seeing that photo, I was almost in tears because the gaze of the puppy in the photo was that of looking at you innocently, as though asking, "What wrong did I do? Why killed me? I am sorry, I want to go home.". Its gaze conveyed such a message. However, sorry, this picture was taken for record purpose because euthanasia was to be administered to it. Then, its carcase was laid before us and it turned out to be just a small puppy. In the end, it could not go back to Thailand or its owner. It could not go back to the surroundings that it was familiar with and in which it grew up. As some animal lovers put it, it has gone onto the rainbow bridge and hopefully, it will no longer be a stray animal in its next life.
Today, we can finally discuss this subject earnestly and solemnly in the Legislative Council because for matters we used to believe legislation would not be possible, legislation is now being drawn up. I hope the Secretary can continue to listen to the views of the community and also hope very much that nothing will go amiss in this half step taken after several decades. This half step is very important. However, apart from making a law on animal welfare to increase the penalties for ill-treating animals and brutally torturing animals to death, issues about the relationship of animals with their surroundings, for example, how the Government looks at animals and whether or not more than 1 000 cats and dogs should continue to be killed by way of euthanasia each year, are actually also crucial. Earlier on, there was a major debate on how the ropes used by AFCD to capture dogs make them spit blood. Is it necessary to do so? Is there any alternative? Some people may say, "What about you trying out and doing the job?" If the problem is insufficient resources, applications for funds dedicated to promoting adoption and stemming the sources of abandoned animals should be made to the Legislative Council. The best course of action is to look at how the animal management centres can be reformed. Even reforming just one centre is desirable because there are different evaluations of the four major animal management centres. Some volunteers from civil groups are very enthusiastic and they are on good terms with individual animal management 9496 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 May 2019 centres. In that case, can we try and take another half step by introducing appropriate reforms to one of the animal management centres? At least, the reform should enable members of the public to go into these centres to make adoptions, or if a certain animal management centre is particularly exemplary, it can serve as a model, so that it can have a role to play in the revolving door for the cats and dogs sent into it, rather than continuing to adhere to what is regarded a "proven" practice that has been adopted for decades, in which animals sent into them wait for four days and if no one claims them, they are killed and the problem is considered solved, and the animals just become a figure.
I wish to say that ever since I joined the legislature, one of the issues I wish to focus on is animal rights. I just do not believe that we cannot take this half step. Whether or not we can take that half step depends very much on the Policy Bureau concerned. For this reason, I wish to ask the Secretary, very calmly, to consider this matter. The Secretary has to take half a step by enacting legislation for animal welfare. Of course, this is not easy but I hope all the more that the Secretary can consider the series of issues raised by me just now, in particular, my present amendment. The reason for my proposing this amendment is not to deliberately goad the Secretary or propose a reduction of the whole amount of money in a trivial manner by refusing to approve a single cent, so that the department concerned will have no money to administer euthanasia. This is not my intention. As I made the query in the beginning of my speech just now. Is the practice of euthanasia really humane? If euthanasia is not humane, it should not be called euthanasia.
Each stray cat and dog has its own story. They do not want to be homeless, nor do they want to go hungry or be bullied by human beings. They are already very miserable and from time to time, they will run into bad guys who kill them for no good reason, the only reason is just to vent their anger on them―no one knows why they are like this but there are really such people―given that they are in such a plight and cannot speak the human tongue, can we in Hong Kong formulate a policy to afford a little more protection to these helpless animals that cannot speak the human tongue, or at least preserve their lives? All lives are equal and in fact, this will also show that Hong Kong people keep themselves abreast of the times.
Chairman, I so submit.
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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr KWONG, you moved your amendment just now but in fact, you cannot do so at this stage. Rather, you should do so only when we come to the vote.
SUSPENSION OF MEETING
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 9:00 am tomorrow.
Suspended accordingly at 7:46 pm.