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Susan Atkins. Was There?

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MR. BUGLIOS1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 104 HON. CHARLES H. OLDER, JUDGE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, Plaintiff, 154 vs. No. A253156 CHARLES MANSON, SUSAN ATKINS, LESLIE VAN HOUTEN, PATRICIA KRENWINKEL, Defendants. REPORTERS' DAILY TRANSCRIPT Tuesday, December 22, 1970 APPEARANCES: For the People: VINCENT T. BUGLIOSI, DONALD A. MUSICH, STEPHEN RUSSELL KAY, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS For Deft. Manson: I. A. KANAREK, Esq. For Deft. Atkins: DAYS SHINN, Esq. For Deft. Van Houten: MRNARRAUNNMARKs MAXWELL KEITH, Esq. For Deft. Krenwinkel: PAUL FITZGERALD, Esq. VOLUME 154 JOSEPH B. HOLLOMBE, CSR., MURRAY MEHLMAN, CSR., PAGES 18,696 to le,938 Official Reporters ARCHIVES 000002 18,696 1-I LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 22, 1970 9:08 A.M. 2 --0--- .3 (The following proceedings were had in the chambers of the Court, in the absence of the defendants and the jury, all counsel being ptesent with the exception. of 6 Mt. Hughes.) 7 8 THE COURT: The record will show all counsel are 9 present. understand from, the clerk that the defense 10 counsel have indicated that the defendants wish to return, 11 12 the female defendants wish to return, to the courtroom. •13 MR. FITZGERALD: That is correct. MR. KEITH: That is correct. 15 MR. SHINN: That is correct. THE COURT: And have affirmed their willingness to 16 conduct themselves properly. 17 MR. FITZGERALD; All three of the defendants actually 18 articulate that they would behave. MR., KEITH: That's right. 20 MA. FITZGERALD: When we came into court this 21 22 Morning the defendants apparently had lett word with one 23 of the Sheriff's personnel that they would like to see us. 24 We went to see them; they said they _wanted to return to 25 the courtroom, and we told them, we said to them, "Do you understand the conditionsl" And they said, "Yes, we will 26 • •71.7•1=1,1,- ARCHIVES 000003 18,697 behaveto THE COURT1 All right, fine. Then we will have the 2 defendants broUght in first, and then the jury. 3, Anything further? 4 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, I haire one short matter. Yesterday I told the Court that certain persons 6 were being excluded from the courtroom, namely one Sandra 0o0d. I attempted to secure her admission to the courtromthis morning and she was refused admittance by the Sheriff. Sergeant Maupin told me that there waa some controversy within the Sheriff's Office about whether or not she should be admitted to the courtroom, and I would ask 14 your Honor to issue an order that she be allowed to enter 15 the. courtroom. 16` I don).t know of any reason why she can't. 37 18' 20 .21 22 ••, 23 24 25 26 ARCHIVES 000004 18,698 MR. BUGLIOSI: She has been subpoenaed as a witness. 2-1 I The trial is not over with yet. There might be a penalty 2 S trial. MR. FITZGERALD: Are you going to call her? 4 MR. BUGLIOSI: I don't know. MR. FITZGERALD: I mean, can you make a, good faith 6 • representation to the Court? MR. BUGLIOSI: I doubt it, but you might call her, 8 9 Paul; right? During the penalty trial? I mean, a defense attorney might call her; right? I don't know, I0. MR. FITMRALD: It is possible, but it is unlikely. 11 I can't understand how this would, at this stage 12 of the proceedings, hurt anything anyway. I mean, we are a3 . only in the argument phase of the trial, Even if it is 14 possible that at some future time she may be a witness, it 16 • is hot, going to .hint anything for her to listen to the 16 prosecution's argument or the defense argument or the jury I.7 ' instruction. THE COURT: I donYt know what the problem, if any, Is. 10 I know the Sheriff has various problems with security, and 20 perhaps it has something to do with security, I don't know. 21 All right; ,Aliything further, gentlemen? 22 MR. KANAREK: Ye's, your, Honor. 23 1 Would just like to enunciate, just very 24 briefly, as to CALJIC 6 10,'6.11, 6,1'2;6.19 and, 6,20, .25 do object to those 4ury instructions. - 26 ARCHIVES 000005 18,699 ma. BUGLIOSI: I have two points, your Honor. 1 Number one, since the defendantswere screaming 2 out in.frOnt of the jury that they want to put on a defense, I couldn't see any harm in the Court instructing the' jury 4 that the defendants have a right to put on a defense. This is an obviOus fact, but I have always 6 believed in stating, the obvious to the jury. 7 They are In front of the jury saying: We want 8 to put on, a defense; they won't let us.. And 'it is always 9 possible that one naive juror might say: Gee, maybe they .10 don't'have a right.' Maybe the judge made some type of a I don't see any harm in the Court just telli4g 13 the jury that the defendants have a constitutional right to 14 put on a defense. 15 I wouldn't request this of the Court if it 16 hadntt been for the fact that they blurted this out several 11 times that "We want to put. on a defense." 18 ag $0, I do feel that.the court should tell the jury that they haVe that right and that it is a decision tha 2O was made by the defense not to do so, but it was a volun- 21 tary decision. 22 I.R. KANAREK: I would object to any such instruction, 23 fz yoUr 24 25 26 ARCHIVES 000006 18,1700. 1 THE COURT: On what ground? MR. UNARM: On the ground, ,your Honor,. that what it 2 does, it invades GriffinVa. California, - 3 4 In Other words, it pinpoints the defendants not taking the witness stand. 6 THE COURT: It is pinpointed to the jury every tip* 7 they open their mouths. 8 MR. KANAR4K: Your Honor has admonished the jury that they are not to consider that for any purpose, any of these 10 matters, and it is a violation of the constitutional right 11 to a fair trial which is guaranteed by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth AmondMent. • 13 TEE COURT: Zt hasn't anything to do with Griffin. • MR. UNARM: Your Bon0r, the point is that it pin- • 15. points the defendants not taking the witness stand. 16 THE COURT: They are pinpointing it themselves, 17 Mr. Kanatek, every time they open their mouths. 18 MR4 UNARM:, Your Honor has admonished the jury to that effect. Your Honor is,giving certain jury instructions 19 20 already that I have objected to, Your Honor has indicated 21 that. It is well covered. 22 THE COURT: You are way off the point, Mr. Kanarek. 23 In my opinion, it has nothing to do with Griffin. It has 24 to do, with the defendants continually repeating to the jury - 25 that they want to put on a defense when their counsel have rested, 26 ARCHIVES 000007 18,701 MR. BUGLIOSI: And to call witnesses. MR. UNARM: jncluding in that is their right to 2 take the witness stand as part of their defense, and in that 4 sense *it:invades Griffin vs. California. S. 'E COURT : I sam not going to do anything about it at this point. What may te done in the future depends on • what the,defendants do ;,.atei,,pn. 8 The jury was present, and heard counsel say that the defense rested. They heard that I denit think anything 10 further had to be done at this time. 11 MR, BUGLIO$I The other point, your Honor, People's 12 • Exhibit 0, the big diagram, I will be referring to it today,. 13 There is no way the jury can see all the little markings 14 unless it is up close. It is going to be quite a job. Yesterday, bedause Of the inconvenience, I never 16 even Went to People's 8 several times. I just referred to it 17 It is tOo much of a hassle to go over there, and 18 the jury can't see anyway. • 19 I am just wondering whether we should bring it 20 up close. It would cause a five or ten-minute delay to 21 move it up in frOnt of the jury. 22 THE CLERK; To see the details on that, you have got 23 to be this' close to it. 24 MR. KANAREK: Your Honor, I would have no objection to 25 that exhibit being put in a position, because I think -- 25. ARCHIVES 000008 1U,702 THE COURT: Well, this is something for the People to decide. This is your argument, Mr. Bugliosi, if you want to 2 move it up close and can do so without disrupting the trial, or creating some other problem, go ahead and do it. 4. I don't know why we have to have a discussion about it. It is DO different from any other exhibit. 6 realize you have a problem, but I don't know 7 what the answer is other than putting it on the blackboard and wheeling it over there. 9 MR. BUOLIOSI: Okay, all set to go. 10 MR. KEITH: I would like to offer a couple of instructions. 12 THE COURT: All right. 13 MR.
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