September 30, 2016 - Ian MacKaye founded Dischord Records in 1980 with the other three members of the band he played bass for in high school, the Teen Idles. Their original intention was to distribute a 7" from their recently defunct band. Later that year, MacKaye and Teen Idles drummer, Jeff Nelson formed the hardcore band, Minor Threat. After that group broke up in 1983, MacKaye went on to be a member of the short-lived band, Embrace, in 1985, and then in 1987 he formed Fugazi with Joe Lally, Brendan Canty, and Guy Picciotto. Fugazi toured the world and released records for the next 15 years before announcing an “indefinite hiatus.” Since 2003, MacKaye has played with his wife, drummer Amy Farina, in the Evens, and continues working on new music. He is still running Dischord Records after 36 years of documenting music coming from the DC punk underground. As told to Brandon Stosuy, 6399 words. Tags: Music, Independence, Focus, Inspiration. Ian MacKaye and Brandon Stosuy on independence, creativity, and The Creative Independent NOTE: This is a section of a longer conversation between Ian MacKaye and Brandon Stosuy that took place at Kickstarter’s Theater at 58 Kent Street in Greenpoint on August 24, 2016. It was not an interview. It was a conversation. It was also a free public event. After MacKaye and Stosuy talked, the audience asked questions. The tone throughout was lighthearted, the audience often breaking into laughter. Ian: [looks out at audience] Thanks for coming out for the conversation. We were just discussing what we’re going to talk about, and Brandon said he would like to talk about independence but I said, “Why don’t we start with this?” And this is how we’d like to start: Can you please explain to me, what is The Creative Independent? Brandon: Sure, I’ll give context. Ian and I have been talking on and off for a couple of months about what The Creative Independent is. I’ve tried to explain it, and we’ve had discussions back and forth about what it is exactly. This is what it is in basic terms: The Creative Independent is a project. It’s a website. It’s also an event series, and it will eventually be printed things. But in the barest terms: It’s a website that will update daily with an interview a day. It will cover music, books, film, visual art, dance. All kinds of things. To start out, we’re relying entirely on written texts. We want this to be very scaled back. I: Is there a thread to the interviews? B: There is an overall thread. There’s a thread about people making things, creating things, process. There’s honestly too much on the internet. The question then is “Why make another website?” It’s because I think there’s too much of the wrong thing on the internet. It’s an echo chamber. So something we’re trying to do is to avoid talking to people about albums within an album cycle, for instance, or talking to a Ian MacKaye and Brandon Stosuy on independence, cre… Page 1/11 09.29.2021 02:02 EST filmmaker pitching a new film. Anything where someone is trying to pitch us with a “new project.” Because basically what you get with that is something that’s useful for their PR campaign. I: “I just went through a terrible divorce, and this is my divorce album,” or whatever. B: Right, so we’re trying to step outside of that, and ask more about process and long-term strategies. For instance, I noticed Eileen Myles, the poet, uses Instagram a lot, and in a very unique way. So I asked her: “Is this useful to your writing?” We talked about that and how it affects her poetry and other writing. You know, let’s think about the grand scope of a career, or a creative strategy, versus zeroing in on one release, or one dance piece, or whatever. I: So, what’s the thread? I understand the concept of creativity. What about the independent part? In other words, what is it you are looking for? What is it you’re trying to focus in or hone in on? I mean are these just people you find interesting? Or is there some other aspect of this that you’re serious about? B: We’re trying to find people who are independent thinkers. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re an “independent artist,” or “independent filmmaker.” It’s people who are thinking independently, and doing things that seem to stick to a specific, unique vision. People who are doing something singular, and who aren’t just following the larger zeitgeist. Some of the first interviews we’ve done have been people who’ve been around for awhile. Just because it’s easier to trace that thread in those cases—like, here’s Philip Glass, and here’s his whole body of work. We’ve interviewed some newer people, too. But, yeah, people who have a very specific reason for what they’re doing, and can articulate that in an interesting way. I’ve done interviews for so many years. I started a zine when I was 12, and I’m 43 now. I’ve done so many interviews where people don’t know why they’re doing what they’re doing. Or they don’t have much of a reason. I interviewed a lot of metal bands for many years. In that case it’s like, “Well, it’s because of Satan.” I: [laughs] Aw, c’mon, be fair. B: I’m serious. I: They really credited Satan? B: Yeah, tons of pretend Satanists. Like, how do you practice Satanism in your everyday life? No response. So I would want to know, well if you’re really Satanic… I: Was it for a metal magazine? B: I did a metal column on Pitchfork called Show No Mercy. So I’d interview a lot of metal bands, but eventually I found loopholes because I got tired of interviewing the bands. So I interviewed Brooks Headley, who’s a chef that happened to be in a band with Mick Barr. I was like, “this is metal enough.” I interviewed a guy who ran a book imprint that published metal-related books. I started finding ways around it. I: I was saying to you earlier that I think of artists and musicians and filmmakers and writers as translators. This is something that I got to thinking about: “What the fuck are these people doing?” And I think of them as translators. In other words, that somebody hears something and they are trying to explain to other people, using that medium, what is it that they are hearing. Visual artists see something, they see the world in a way and then they are trying to show people what it is that they’re seeing. It’s literally a translation. That was really helpful for me in terms of meeting people who I felt like, “well this person is interesting to me because the reason they are doing this is that they don’t have a choice in the matter.” And maybe that’s what you’re talking about. Like, I think that sometimes, whether or not they address it in satanic worship, or even people who are just like, “I wanna make money,” sometimes there is nothing else for them to do. They have to do that. People say to me, “What is your favorite kind of music, what do you like to listen to?” And I always say, “my favorite kind of music is the music made by people who don’t have a choice in the matter.” So I can listen to anything… it could be punk or blues or whatever. I just want it to feel like the person who’s making that music heard something and is saying, “this is what I’m hearing.” It’s the same way with any kind of visual stuff. I’m not particularly well Ian MacKaye and Brandon Stosuy on independence, cre… Page 2/11 09.29.2021 02:02 EST educated about visual art, I don’t have a degree in art history so just don’t know a lot of that stuff, but occasionally I’ll see something and in my mind, I’ll be like, “Wow, something is going on here that it really compels me.” And then if I read about it and find out that person saw something, they are like, “Here’s what I saw! Here’s what I fuckin saw!” That’s what I want to feel when I look at things, that’s what I want to feel when I hear things. That is a form of independence, right? B: Yeah, definitely. A lot of the first people we’ve approached have an overall career arc, a history of doing things for long periods of time, and doing inspired work that existed outside of anything else. They were, and are, clearly listening to their own heads. What’s exciting for me is that we’re also still figuring it out. A lot of it is a gut thing; it’s instinctual. As we go along, people keep coming to mind. Like, “I should talk to this guy who’s a dancer who used to be in this punk band, I’ve seen him perform and it’s an interesting thing he’s doing.” I: Or like in our conversation the other day and I mentioned Nell Zink.