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American Century Oral History Project Interviewee Release Form

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KAi'lL I'i- M\-'I I on / // / 'Y- .1 understand that (student interviewer) (date)

the purpose of (his project is to collect audio- and video-taped oral histories of first-hand memories ofa particular period or event in history as part of a classroom project (The American Century Project). 1 understand that these interviews (tapes and transcripts) will be deposited in the Saint Andrew's Episcopal School library and archives for the use by ftiture students, educators and researchers. Responsibility for the creation of derivative works will be at the discretion of the librarian, archivist and/or project coordinator. I also understand that the tapes and transcripts may be used in public presentations including, but not limited to, books, audio or video doe\imcntaries, slide-tape presentations, exhibits, articles, public performance, or presentation on the World Wide Web at t!ic project's web site www.americaiicenturyproject.org or successor technologies. In making this contract I understand that I am sharing with St. Andrew's Episcopal School librai-y and archives all legal title and literary property rights which i have or may be deemed to have in my inten'iew as well as my right, title and interest in any copyright related to this oral history interview which may be secured under the laws now or later in force and effect in the United States of America. This gift, however, does not preclude any use that I myself want to make of the information in these transcrii)ts and recordings. 1 herein warrant that I have not assigned or in any manner encumbered or impaired any of the aforementioned rights in my oral memoir. The only conditions which I place on this unrestricted gift are:

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PO So^ ^K.O'i Address /iU^--/i>///V^V^-/i/- ./).C.

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8804 Postoak Road • Potomac, MD 20854 • Phone 301-983-5200 • Fax 301-983-4710 • www.saes.org Statetnent of Purpose

The purpose of the Oral Flistory Projeci is to reserve valuable historic information in order lo educate latter generations. The evolution of the Washington, DC punk scene in the 1980s has had everlastmg effects on youth culture today, both nationally and internationally. The mterviewee, Guy Picciotto, was a main player in the development of this scene. Therefore, it is historically significant and purposeflil lo document Mr.

Picciotlo's stories with the aun of mstructmg generations to come.

Nesmith 1 Biography of Guy Picciotto

www.rollingstone.com Legendary band member Guy Picciotto was born in 1965 in Washington, DC.

Additionally, he was raised and wenl to school m DC, and graduated fi'om Georgetown

University m the late 1980s. Having a great interest in music since his pre-teenage years,

Picciotto received his fii-st guitar at age 12 after being infatuated with the uiflueiitial band

The Beatles. When he entered his teenage years, he also found himself entering the DC punk scene of the 1980s. Bands like Bad Brains mfluenced Picciotto greatly, and inspired him to create his fu*st band. Insurrection. Over the course of about eight years,

Picciotto formed and jomed bands such as Embrace, Happy Go Licky, One Last Wish, and the legendary bands Rites of Spring and Fugazi. Picciotto eventually formed his own record label, Peterbih Records, where he packaged and distributed by hand. However,

vocals) and the latter Fugazi (guitar). Rites of Sprhig is seen to be the first emotional hardcore (or, "emo") band. On the other hand, Picciotto is thoroughly confiised by the term "emo", since his music was labeled as such only in retrospect. Picciotto's latest band, Fugazi (formed in 1987), has also been the most successftil. He is currently living in Washington, DC with his gu-lfriend and brand new baby girl.

Nesmith 2 Contextualization: The DC Punk Scene and Life in the 1980s

"You can't hurt me, I'm bamied m DC! / And if you ban us from your clubs, it's the right time, with the right mind. / And if you thmk we really care, you won't fmd m my mind / You can't afford to close your doors, so soon no more!" The legendary

Washington, DC punk band Bad Brains sums up the scene perfectly: independent, rebellious, and uniniiibited. The music was loud, energetic, and somewhat abrasive, with a "you can't hurt me" message. This particular genre and scene gave way to numerous punk subgenres and cultures, including emotional hardcore (otherwise known as "emo").

Riot GHTI, and Straight Edge. The punk rock scene of Washmgton, DC did nol only produce such subcultures, but lastmg ones. The effects of the evolution ofthis scene are ever-present today in DC, and America as a whole. Ils effects even span kiternationally.

Therefore, because of these vast effects, it is crucial to comprehend the perspective ofthis culture in the time in which it was developing—the 1980s and 1990s.

The 1980s were marked by economic growth and prosperity

(Reaganomics/Voodoo Economics), but also a rise m homelessness, drug use, and AIDS.

Since fonner President Ronald Reagan devoted 1.3 trillion dollars to the military, he sent countless American citizens living under government welfare into the streets by cutting welfare and public transit fimding. Articles like Jay Matthew of The Washington Post's

Washington Post staff writer wrote, "President Reagan's welfare cuts for working mothers forced many poor families deeper into poverty." Not only were there more

Americans living hungry and homeless, there was also a plentiftil amount who tiuTied to hardcore drug use.

Nesmith 3 Cocaine, heroine and ecstasy were on the rise. Because ofthis, "the Reagan administration rediscovered the value ofpoliticizmg drug problems in the 1980s" (1,

Reinarman). Bolh former Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush waged wars on drugs. Durmg the Regean presidency, parents raised theii' voices agamst drugs, and slogans such as fust lady Nancy Reagan's "Jusl Say No" were coined. However, earlier in 1978, Congress "turned decidedly conservative," and passed the Comprehensive Drug

Abuse Prevention and Control Act (http://facully.ncwc.edu/tocormor/poF4951ect03.htm).

This act "provided for the seizure of all money and properly by persons arrested for engaging in the exchange ofa controlled substance"

(liltp://faculty.ncwc.edu/locoiinor/poF4951ect03.htni). George H.W. Bush started liis war on drugs directly upon his entry into the Wliile House. He staited by sending troops into

Panama in order to overtliiow Manuel Noriega, and put Iiim on trial under drug trafficking charges. Both Bush and Reagan ftilly supported and stressed the "zero tolerance" attitude towards drugs. The fact that dmgs were on such an incluie in

American society added more emphasis on the Straight Edge scene, since MacKaye and his followers were able to wUhstand the overwhelming volume of drugs and stand strong in their beliefs against them.

In addition to drugs and homelessness, AIDS (or. Acquired Immunodeficiency

1981, while reportedly, rare cases of the disease occurred prior to 1970. The disease, however, was unknown and somewhat intermittent m the United States. Il has been reported that, "during this period of silence, spread was unchecked by awareness or any preventive action and approxunately 100,000-300,000 persons may have been mfected"

Nesmith 4 (http://www.advert.ord/his81_86.htm). The AIDS pandemic is obviously still a concern today, bul the fact that il was bul an unknown factor and terror in American life hi the early 1980s added to fear and uimeeded silence. AIDS was bemg spread by sexual mlercourse (notably, at the time, tlirough male/male hilercourse), dirty herohi syrmges, and any other form of blood-borne transfers.

Though the DC punk rock scene made a name for ilself in the very late 70s and

1980s, the genre of punk itself developed in the 1970s (with roots in the 1960s) in Great

Britain, Bands like the Sex Pistols helped to create the confiontational politics of punk rock, standing against authority and having a "DIY" (Do II Yourself) attitude. The goal was to get tlimgs done, politically and socially, and to spread the punk anti-establisliment message. These were the days where the genre was merely developing a sound and a reputation; it was neither well-known nor widespread. Punk rock made its transition to the Nation's Capital m 1978, arguably with the band Overkill. WGTB-FM disc jockey and music journalist Myron Bretholz once said of Overkill, "Overkill is doing soinethmg so radical, so avaiit that I fear conimittmg such notions to print: Overkill is doing punk rock, and m a city where a Dan Fogelberg show would probably sell out a month in advance, punk rock, my friends, is radical" (Anderson, 3). The newly-born DC punk scene found its strongholds in specific areas: student-populated Georgetown, heavily

„n,,/l u;— r> 1 o:..-i_ _.. J tt- - i—i-. i .*

(Anderson, 3). WGTB-FM, a radio station created by priest and Georgetown University astrology professor Francis B. Heyden was a leading way for the new punk scene to voice its message to a responsive audience. It was a student-run station, led primarily by Ken

Sleeman and Peter Barry Chowka. Staff member Ruth Stenstrom recalls, "the cultural

Nesmith 5 explosions of the '60s had become institutionalized mto a completely run, responsive, listener-supported radio station" (Anderson, 3). While eai'ly DC punk rock was not particularly political, WGTB's relationship with such a radical subculture spun-ed controversy; Spiro Agnew once remarked that "the voice ofa Thhd World communism is persuasive ui academia" (Anderson, 4). Such controversy shook the station, and it eventually went downliill. Flowever, il facilitated the punk scene, and helped it fmd its foundation. The scene started to gain speed when more "famous" punk artists, such as

The Ramones and Palti Smith began to book shows at local venues.

Ian MacKaye, a latter champion of the punk scene (let alone genre), was a student at Woodrow Wilson High School in Northwest DC. He believed greatly in stressing a

"positive mental attitude" in the local scene (Anderson, 19). MacKaye realized at an eai"ly age that the use of drugs and alcohol weakened rebellion and the punk message as a whole. He once remarked, "I always thought that our thing could be stronger without the drugs," and also, "the stoners had theii' cool, we had ours. With our [skateboards] and our music, we didn't need drugs" (21, Anderson). In 1980, 17-year-old MacKaye formed a teenage punk band called the Teen Idles. The Teen Idles made "positive mental altitude" a widespread term among the scene, as it became the Georgetown scene's motto. The Teen Idles made a "young, fun, new, clean rock....no drugs" punk rock

breaking off into smaller sub-scenes, gem-es, and cultures, namely Straight Edge, emo, and Riot Grrrl.

Ian MacKaye (of bands Teen Idles, Mmor Tlii'eat, Fugazi, and a few more) realized that drugs were plaguing his peers and interfering with the productivity of the

Nesmith 6 scene. He decided to rebel by not partaking in alcohol or drug consumption and thus started the Straight Edge scene in the 1980s (which slill lives today). "Edge kids" (those who follow the Straight Edge scene) started sporting large X's on theii- hands as a symbol of their stance on mhid-altering substances. This tradition started offal the 9:30 Club in

DC, where co-manager Dody Bowers identified underage patrons by marking their hands with the X's. If was then when the X transformed into a badge for edge kids. Later on in the 80s, MacKaye wrote the song "Straight Edge" while he was the front man for the band Minor Threat. The band Bad Brains greatly influenced Mmor Tlueat. Bad Brains set the prescedenl of hyper, yet precise and polished ixink rock. MacKaye's earlier band.

Teen Idles was not nearly as refined as Mmor Tlueat, nor would they eventually be was well-known nationally and internationally. MacKaye ultimately ventured mto creating one of the most renouned and seasoned punk/liardcore/emo labels, Dischord Records.

Riot Grrrl is known as the punk scene's own version of feminism, a genre that was lead by women like Kathleen Haiuia, and bands such as Bikmi Kill, Bralmobile, and

Julie Ruin. "The name Riot Grrrl was chosen to reclaim the vitality and power of youth with an added growl to replace the perceived passivity of'gfrl'" (Rosenburg/Garofalo,l).

It was initially created in order for women in DC to become more involved m the punk scene. Riot Grrrl is ultimately the ftision of punk's stress on self-empowerment and aiiti-

such as Le Tigre and Sleater-Kinney.

Emo, or Emotional Hardcore, branched off from the punk scene m the '80s with interviewee Guy Picciotto's band. Rites of Spring. Today, emo is the most frequently misconstrued geme of music. Popular belief is that emo consists of acoustic guitars.

Nesmith 7 whmey vocals, and songs about ex-girlfriends. However, emo is truly the ftision of punk rock with raw human emotion—^il is characterized by the same punk energy, discordant guitar riffs, chaotic drum work, and screaming, passionate vocals. "[The] lyrics are emotional and deeply self-questioning, but still clear and unambiguous," stales Andy

Radin, author ofwww.fourfa.com (www.fourfa.com).

These sub-genres of the DC punk scene managed to shape a new cuUure, and are slill carried on presently to a large degree. While some of them, namely emo, remam somewhat obscure, it is important to note that Guy Picciotto is a major contributor to the growth of the DC punk scene, the creator of emo, and witness to the development of

Straight Edge and Riot Grixl.

In addition to witnessing the rise of drugs, homelessness, and AIDS, interviewee

Guy Picciotto also witnessed the development of Riot Grrrl, Straight Edge, and contributed directly to the DC punk rock scene. Picciotto created emotional hardcore with his band Rites of Spring. His emotionally-charged lyrics are exemplified m the

Rites of Spring song, "Theme (If I Start Crymg)": "Cruehy is the belter part of your honesty,/and when you're so direct it'sjust for yourself to protect, / and if I started crymg, would you start crying? / Now I started ci"ying - why are you not crying?"

(http://pIyrics.com/Iyrics/ritesofspring/themeifistarledc17ing.l1tml). Rites of Spring and

Still Life, Yapliet Kotto, Hassan I Sabbah/Holy Hand Grenades, and labels like Level

Plane Records. Emo has even branched out into sub-sub-genres, for example, emo-core, post-emo, post-emo-indie-rock, screamo, and more. After his involvement in Riles of

Sprmg, he joined up with Ian MacKaye to form the legendary punk band Fugazi.

Nesmith 8 Because of Picciotto's relations with MacKaye, he became an eyewitness to straight edge culture. It is of utter hnporlance to understand Picciotto's impact on music as a whole, however, because not only did he witness major musical revolutions, bul also created one himself He is the godfather of an entire gem-e of music which still tluives today, and will undoubtedly continue to do so. Picciotto also helped to keep punk growing m the nation's capital, and made it a significant part of music history.

While historians have not yet had a chance to write aboul specific events in the

DC punk rock scene, there have been varying viewpoints documented on the scene within the scene. For example, Picciotto once commented on the DC scene, slating, "there's no

DC soimd now at all, it's really varied, the artistic levels are totally diverse. The tilings that hold the scene together are like connections between friends rather than some code of ethics or sound. I tliink that is really healthy" (Aiderson, 280). Negative viewpohits have also been expressed, usually staling that the scene turned too clichd at one point with the development of slanidancing and moshing. Another varying opuiion came about with MacKaye's first band the Teen Idles, when people within the scene said that the members and fanbase were too young, and referenced "teeny hoppers".

The evolution of the DC punk rock scene not only produced some of the most legendary and talented bands such as Bad Brahis, Minor Threat, Fugazi, Riles of Spring,

Edge still lives on today, with bands that pride themselves on the ideals of edge, and have large followers. Bands like these include Champion, Betrayed, Bloodlined Calligraphy, and Good Clean Fun. Edge kids still exist, and still sport the Xs on their hands. Riot

Grrrl has become a huge pari of modern day feminism, as one of its leading members.

Nesmith 9 Kathleen Haiuia, is seen as a pioneering member of 2P' century American feminism.

Emo still remains obscure, but has a cult-like following. The fact that the term "emo" is overwhelmingly prevalent in today's language is even a tribute to Picciotto's genre, even if it is disgustingly misconstrued. The importance of the DC punk scene is that it has created an alternative lifestyle, sound, and ideals lo youth culture today, and will continue to do so.

Nesmith 10 Interview Transcription

Interviewee: Guy Picciotto Interviewer; Katie Nesmith Location: Katie Nesmith's Home, Bethesda, Maryland Date: 6 January 2006

Katie Nesmith: My name is Katie Nesmith and I am interviewing Guy Picciotto as a part of the American Century Oral History Project. The interview took place on January 6,

2006 at my house in Bethesda, Maryland. Alright, so. Wliat in your childhood influenced you lo pursue a career in music?

Guy Picciotto: I don't come from a very musical family. I think my dad played harmonica m a band when he was young and he was m a band called The Three

Musketeers. But it was all harmonicas.

KN: [laughs] Nice.

GP: But neither liim or my mom really were that musically inclmed. We didn't have a piano in the house, nothing like that. But, I think when I was in 5"* or 6"' grade.. .1 was hanging oul with a friend of mine who was from.. .his parents were from England, and they were like, huge Beatles fans...and we used to just hang out al his house and listen to the Beatles all the lime. And that was the fust time I started tliinking about being in a group, because...there was soinethmg aboul their music that was really exciting to me.

So fi-om that point on, I kind of really got into it, and I started pestering my parents to get me a guitar...and they gave me a guitar when I was about 12. I got an acoustic guitar and

Nesmith 11 I was taking.. .the only guitar lessons I could find were in my neighborhood, this community center, and I went there and...they were like, leaching us "Jmgle Bells" on one string and stuff like that.

KN: [laughs]

GP: I knew it wasn't what I wanted, you know? Al that point, I jusl decided that I didn't want to take lessons anymore. So, I just got some chord books and learned some chords on my own.. .but I don'l think I really thought seriously about being in a band until I actually started playing wilh people, and that really just happened just fi"om slarlmg to go to shows when I was like, 13, and meeting other people who were kind of into the same kmdof music that I was. And then, once we started...once I started meeting other people who played, and then you start playing, and that's when I started feelmg like I actually learned what music was really about.

KN: Yeali, I know that feeling about pestermg parents for an acoustic [both laugh]. So, what element of the scene... the DC punk scene... strike you so that you would join up or jom a band?

GP: I guess, when I fust started hearmg the kind of punk bands and sluff like that, I was like 13 or 14 years old, and it was really just from you know, buying records and kind of learning about stuff kmd of randomly...and I didn't really even realize that there was that much ofa scene m DC at that point, because I was too young lo really know any of

Nesmith 12 the older people that were starting what was to become the scene in DC. So, I would just kind of hang around in Georgetown, and there were some stores there...and I used to buy records and I started meeting some people. And then...I think the biggest turning point for me was there was a radio station run out of Georgetown University that doesn't exist any more, but at the lime h was called WGTB.

KN: Oh righl.

GP: And.. .1 used to listen to it all the time in my room and they were playmg really amazmg sluff Al some point, the university shut down the radio station. So, there was a concert held to.. .kind of as a benefit for the closing of the station, and that was the first kind of punk show that I went to, and Ian MacKaye and members of the Bad Brains...it was kind of like this watershed event where a lot of the people who ended up being kind of key players in the DC music scene.. .they were all at that concert. There was local bands like...names like The Chumps and Urban Verbs...But there was also tliis band The

Cramps that were based m New York at that time, and they came and played. And that was the set that kind of blew everyone's mind, and from that show on, I think the seed was created for...everyone who was al that gig wanted to be in a band, and from that

that night that I ended up playmg whh for like the next 25 years.

KN: That's...incredible. So, WGTB...right?

Nesmith 13 GP: [nods]

KN; That was a pretty controversial station, right?

GP: Yeah, it was. And.. .and I think that the reason was.. .there were two folds. One was

because a lot of the people who were running the station didn't actually go to the university; they had just kind of taken it over. And it had a really powerful signal. You

could get it everywhere around town, but the thing that really. - .it was very political, they did a lot of political activism during the Vielnam War, and then after that... but the one tluiig that really angered the. ..I tliink the Catholic administration at Georgetown was that they were running advertisements for abortion services, and I think Father ?Heeley?, who was runnuig the school at the tune finally.. .it just pushed him over the edge, and he

literally sold the entire station...like all the equipment to I think UDC for a dollar. He just ?sold? it [both laugh]. But it was tough. The people in the station... they weren't

trying to compromise at all, but they.. .but in a way it was kmd of sad because the city

lost like one of the best independent voices that it ever had. There has never been a

station, to this day, that had that kind of power signal that was playing the kmd of stuff

that they were playing...and it educated a lot of people. So il's sad. It's sad what

KN: Yeah. Yeah, that was interesting. I was domg research about all of this...didn't

Spiro Agnew or somelhmg.. .make some sort of brash comment aboul il?

Nesmith 14 GP; Yeah, that's right! I read an article about that too. I didn't know about il at the thne,

I jusl heard about that a couple years ago.

KN: Yeah, that was incredible that, you know, something that small...well, you know, not smcdi...had that—-

GP: Had that effect?

KN: Yeah.

GP: No, yeah, totally.

KN: So, how did you see, Just generally the DC scene grow and develop, really?

GP: Well, it developed, it was...it's incredible what happened because when I first...like

I said, when I first started hanging out around 14,1 mean, the shows were.. .they were

Just so small. I mean, a lot of shows would just take place at parties or people's houses.

Even when I was in my second band Rites of Spring, you know, our early shows were

:.,„*:„ . •--—^ -r.,^ l!.-;;^: r.-..-,i-.. .,,. ' • • / .. .,?rt ,. - . ,TT. .... r: • then, things just kmd of accelerated. At a certain point...it moved from just being a

really local kind ofconcept...like really within the beltway, kind of small scene...to

bemg something much larger when the bands started touring, and that didn't really

happen until people grew up a Httle bh, because the thing that was so crazy was that the

Nesmith 15 scene was so young, it really was teenagers...and il wasn't until people started graduatuig fi'oni high scliool that they started touring and going around the country.. .and then all the sudden, the word on DC bands just became really, really large. And also that the growth of Dischord Records was a big thing to because it was aclually documenting the music so people fi"omothe r pai-fs of the country could hear il, and il jusl.. .milially, the idea was just, the kind of like, "oh, maybe we'll sell a few of these to our friends", or something like that, but then it quickly just became so much larger. I thmk, you know... I'm biased because I love the music fi-om this town, but I do thuik the bands like the Bad Brains and

Minor Threat and Fate...I just thuik that they were... there was an intensity of the bands here, and kind of ..the musiciansliip and stuff...there was something really original that happened here, and I just don't think that a lot of olher places in the country had something that was that.. .just thai intense. Aid, I tlihik a lot ofil had to do with the fact that DC just wasn't...it wasn't LA, it wasn't New York, il wasn't an industry town so it just really kind ofa town, kind ofa scene just playing for itself, so it was really unique, it wasn't.. .no one had any commercial aspirations or anything, so it was just.. .people were making this kind of really pure music, and it ended up bemg really...I thuik, significant.

KN: Yeah, I mean, all the bands that came out of the scene really sparked a lot of ..you

GP: Yeah, definitely.

Nesmith 16 KN: I mean, I'm really into all that music, [laughs] You said that you became a part of the scene...wliat'd you say? Wlien you were like 13...or when you entered your fust band?

GP: I thuik about my fu'sl punk single.. .1 bought a Sex Pistols single, "Anarchy in the

UK" in 1978, I thhik. And then...the first concert 1 went to was in '79. Then I started seeing the Clash and the Ramones and the Jam.. .Bad Brains and Patti Smith a bunch of times, who was really important to me at that time.. .1 saw her like tlu'ee tunes. I just started going to concerts all the time...but I didn't start playing in a band till I was like... 15 or 16, so it took me a couple of years to meet Brendan Canty' who ended up being the drummer for Fugazi. Wlien him and I became fi'iends, then thmgs really changed because we started writing songs, and pretty quickly we formed our fust band.

Insurrection.. .and from then on it was.. .pretty full-on. I was m like, 5 bands in a span of, you know, 4 years. We were jusl working really hard and writing a lot of music.

KN: Yeah. So...whal would you say you enjoyed most aboul the scene?

GP: I tliink for me, just the.. .at that point, being really young and being part of

....,_,,-•*»,?- • ' .. T !*,,;•• -• -t I really seismic was happening. I think even at the time, we had the sense that, wow, we

were really.. .there's something really amazing happening. It kind of look over my life.

At that point I really lost interest in ahnost everything else, but I just wanted to be in a

band and it was so excitmg.. .and the friends that I made at that point.. .1 think il's rare to

' Drummer for Fugazi, Rites of Spring

Nesmith 17 have friends from that age who end up being your friends for life, bul it ended up being really the case. These are people I still talk lo eveiy day, and still.. .and are still part of everything I work on now. I think I was just really lucky to fall into a really interesting, creative group of people who were also really serious, I mean, we were young and... what

I think is interesting aboul it is that I think a lot of times when you really don't know what you're domg, you have a better chance of makmg sometliing unique, then if you actually are well-schooled or if you have this really strong kind of mentoring... we didn't have any. I mean, we were all just complete opposites and il jusl happened that without any kind of concept that, and really not any kmd of support there was just a sense that we could do il, and I mean, people had a really strong autonomous ethic lo book shows, put out records, write songs, and just make things happen, and that's kind of what happened.

So it was remarkable. So I guess it was really the camaraderie and the friendships that was kind of like the most.. .and then, also the fmding oul that there was a creative outlet that I didn't know I had.. .that actually, I could do something with.. .that was kind ofa shock, and that was really cool to fmd out.

KN: Right! Yeah. That seems so incredible that everyone.. .did everyone just do theu' own booking, or did you have promoters and managers and all that type of stuff?

GP: No, I mean, I think the Bad Brains were the only...because they were older...they

were the only band that had a manager and kind ofmore professional type setup, but really, what il was, was just fi-iends... someone would be like, "you know, I go to

Nesmith 18 ?Woodland? High School in Virginia and they have this, you know, room and maybe we can do a show," and like eight bands would like jump the bill.

KN: [laughs]

GP: [laughs] And then everyone would go play, or someone would be like, "my parents are out of town and we can have a show in the basement," and we'd to that, or.. .and when it started to becoming out of town shows, it really it was like there was a network of kids, Ihere'd be some teenagers in ?Monine?, Ohio, who somehow had figured out about Discord stuff And they would write letters and say like, "hey, we've got, you know, a gym here that can do all-ages shows," and it really just was by letters. I mean, that's the thmg... it was pre-internel, really. So it was like, kids would just write letters and then you would kind of like, just tiiist them to get il together, and you'd just show up.

KN: That's incredible!

GP: It was pretty crazy. And my parents were pretty cool about il. They lent me a car lo drive to...Insurrection, my first band, we played in Detroit when I was still in high

Detroit with some kids, seltmg up a show in some weird bar up there? [both laugh] It was so random! But it actually ended up being a really cool... it was the fu-st out-of-town show that I ever played, and il was totally awesome, you know?

Nesmith 19 KN: That's mcredible. Did you encounter any really major problems wilh the whole start ofthe scene...while h was developing, really?

GP: I guess, the one thing that's hard, I guess, to think back on now is that at the time, it really was shockmg to do something like, to dress like a punk rocker, to shave your head... I mean, there was no cultural reflection of it.. T mean, it wasn't like thai kmd of look was on MTV, or that there was tliis thing. So, you would get seriously beaten up a lot ofthe time. Aid that was awful. I mean, there was.. .you know, I think that was one tiling that concerned my parents the most, and I don't think they had any idea of actually how violent it actually was. If you wenl to Georgetown to hang out on the weekend, you were going to get in a fight. Some Marines would try to fight you, people were much, much older than you. You'd be m fights with people who were like 25, and you were like...16.

KN: Oh my god!

GP: [laughs] It was a nightmare! And.. .the only thing, you know, was that il ended up behig really awfiil, and a lot of people in my high school were jerks. It was one oflhose

shocking. I mean, you come lo school one day and you shaved your head...and, al the time, everyone thought you were, you know, a fascist, or a drug addict, or you were cultist, or something. People just couldn't get theu head around it at all. So, it took some guts to get involved in, and I think for a lot of people, it was kmd ofa turn-off.

Nesmith 20 And...and il became unfortunate because the violence ended up becoming really

integrated inlo the culture of punk rock, wliich was a drag because it ended up beuig... I

tliuik a lot of kids were fighting in self-defense because they were getting so much crap, bul that self-defense kmd of, at a certam point, it kind of ended up Just becoming, I don't know, ritualized in a way, because you got so used to fighting that it ended up just being something that always happened. I think that was a real mistake. Aid I thuik it took a while for people lo figure out that il was a total dead-end, because at a certain point, you weren't protecting yourself, people had a sense that...it just became kind of arbitrary, like, "we have to protect the dance floor! We have to protect this!" and il just became khid of stupid. Aid I tiuiik it took a couple of years for everyone lo figure out that it was just really, really dumb.

KN: Yeah.

GP: And evenlually things just kind of mellowed oul. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, the culture changed, I mean, people started lo accept more...accept it more as just another kind of youth movement. You know. I just think it was not seen that way when it started.

KN: Yeah, I mean, high-schoolers especially can be brutal with that type ofthing.

GP: That's tme.

Nesmith 21 KN; What do you think about places like Hot Topic and MTV as sort of like, taken that punk fashion, if you will, and sort of mass-produced it and put it oul there? What do you think about that type of stuff?

GP: I mean, well, to me it'sjust business. So lo me, they can't sell the ideas.

KN: Right.

GP: So that, lo me, is like, the ideas will always have a currency outside of that, but I do think that for a lol of kids...1 don't think they're experience ofthis can be the same... because there's just so much histoiy, and there's so much tune involved, and there's so much like... formulas and costumes kind of associated with il. So to me, it's never going to have that same freshness. Bul at the same time, I do think kids re-mvent things all the time, they get hito and they fmd new ways to express tliuigs. So I don't get too hung up on the conunercializalion of it, because I think the ideas are so...yet, the one ethic of punk rock, which is always to be challenging things...that in itself h kind of moculates it fi"om becoming too standardized. Because there's always going to be this upheaval, and people reactuig againsl things, and I think that's good. I mean, it's ftiniiy, I

does a label that's.. .it's just associated mostly with folk music and old, tradilional music fi'om like the 20s and 30s.. .and his stance is that there's no good music made after the late 1920s and early 30s, because after that point, there was radio.

Nesmith 22 KN: Ah, yeah.

GP: And he says radio.. .really music... was that people could hear what other people were doing in other towns, and the only time it was really pure was when people were domg things in theu- community without any idea of what other people were doing. So, I think that's an mteresting pohit. I mean, I can't agree wilh it, because it's... so much of the music I love was made after that [both laugh]. But I know what he means in one sense it's like, I kind of have.. .1 think everyone has a nostalgic for a certain point about when they're young, and I'm nostalgic for the pre-internel, because it's like.. .there was a time when il was really hard to find out mformation about certam kinds of music. Just the fact that you had to dig around to find out aboul bands in England, or you had lo dig around to find about bands in LA, and not be immediately sure exactly what they're style was. We used to have so many myths buih up aboul bands, because we really didn't know. You know, there'd be the Misfits in New York, and we'd hear all these stories aboul them, and we thought they were a certain way, and they'd come and play and it'd be this... big mind explosion. It wasn't like you already had a whole script in front of you by Just, googling it. You know, you had to go lo the show, or you had to go find the flyer that would take you to the record store that would give you the ticket to the weird event,

« , , ,. ''..••• f! T ..-.-.-•?-• ••^• * • * f in way, that's...I try to not to be...I think everyone kind ofprivileges their own youth experience, and I don't want to do that so much. Because I tliink kids today they have things that I don't even know about that are probably.. .you know, and then, in a lot of ways, the internet's probably really helpftil for that type of. .you know.

Nesmith 23 KN: Yeah, yeah- Life before Myspace^. [laughs] I know I can find out about so much... so many bands over the internet, over Myspace, and...

GP: That's something I didn't even know about until about like a month ago.

KN: Yeah, oh...

GP: Il's huge, I guess. It's a really...[trails off]

KN: It's pretty much an addiction. [laughs]

GP: Yeah, that's interesting.

KN: Bul...I mean, I guess it sort of adds a lillle bit to the music scene too, it gets the names out.

GP: [agrees]

KN: I don't know. I like trying to find bands you know, by reading about them, and stuff like that, instead of having them spoon-fed to me.

GP: Yeali.

vww.mvspace.com. a blogging community

Nesmith 24 KN: But, so.. .what do you think about the common perception of what emo sounds like today.. .just stepping away fi"oinpun k for a little bit?

GP: Yeah...I don't really know...I gotta be honest, I don't really know that much about those bands. I Just...the term is so nebulous to me...and I know that it's associated wilh me m this weii"d way. So I kind of have a really wefrd relationship with it [both laugh].

Because...a lot of people will be like, "what do you think ofthis band? You know, they're predicated on Rites of Spring" or something like that, and I'll listen lo them, and I can't understand the connection. It's not that I don't like it.

KN; Right.

GP; It's liai'd for me to understand the smiilarity. I think it's an inlerestmg word, because... the fust time I originally heard il...il was /o;?^ after Rites of Spring had broken up, so I heard the term started being used. It's so weii'd...because lo me, I'd listen to soul music, and all this other stuff like that, and it's supposed to be a certain kind of music that was based on emotional content.. .and I was like, well, isn't all music based on

specific meaning to people, but I Just don't understand what it is. [both laugh] So I feel like I need to educate myself aboul il, but in a...one way I'm kmd of shy about it because I don'l really...I feel weii'd because my name is always linked to it. And I

Nesmith 25 just...and I know that whenever I die, there'll be an obituary and they'll say somelhing like, "the founder of emo!"

KN: [laughs] Right!

GP: And I'll never escape it fi'om the grave! [laughing] So I don't even know! I don't really know how to deal with h.

KN: Right...so, that was actually one ofmy questions, that some really do say that you're the godfather ofthe emo subgeiue.

GP; Right.

KN: It's, I guess, sort of ridiculous for you then!

GP; It's weird because... Rites of Spring, I mean, we jusl thought we were a punk band.

And if we were asked to be more specific, we'd say, well, we're a DC punk band, you know?

KN: [laughing] Right!

Nesmith 26 GP: I mean, I didn't really...I mean, in retrospect, I guess we really did something different from what other bands In town were doing. It Just wasn't that self-conscious.

So, it's hard to say.

KN; Yeah. I mean, looking into Rites of Spring, and I look mto the bands that are, you know, labeled as real emo loday.. .you know, like Yapliet Kotto^ or Saetia**, I guess. You know, people saying that Hawthorne Fleighls and sort of poppy bands are emo...Just always...I'm a huge music elitist.

GP: [laughs]

KN: So I'm always just like, "AHH, no!" So that's interestmg to hear you say all that.

So, when did you start hearing the term emo, then?

GP: I think it was maybe like 3 or 4 years after Rites of Sprmg broke up. I mean. Rites of Spring wasn't together for very long.

KN: Right.

GP: I mean, we were together for maybe.. .2, 3 years. [Pause] Aid it was kind of like...there was a lot of turmoil, there was Rites of Sprmg and One Last Wish and Happy

Go Licky and Insurrection.. .all these bands wilh kind ofthe same members, basically.

^ Emo band, Ebullition Records. '' Emo/Screamo band, Level Plane Records

Nesmith 27 but we Jusl kept changing the name and breaking up and it was kind ofa volatile time because we were all so young, and people were tryuig to figure out what they were doing.

I think it was like, yeah, 4, 5 years afterwards, and I thuik it was originally just used as kind of like a, it was really a derogatory joke about... oh, those bands that are like this, who fi'eak oul and smash their sluff.. .and doing really play really well. I think that was what the original thing was, making fiui of it for being kind of overwrought or something like that? Because I remember hearing the.. .hearing il and just thinkmg. Just people, you know, there's always a lot of criticism of bands, so I was like, oh, it'sjust someone making fijn ofil, but what's ftinny is just that, as the years go on, now it'sjust like a totally neutral term. You know?

KN: Yeah.

GP: Originally it was just kind of used as a prerogative term. So it's kind of ftumy.

KN: Yeah. It depends who's really usmg il.

GP: Yeah.

KN: If someone, you know, quote-unquote "knows their stuff', or if someones saying, you know, "you're so emo, stop crying!" Like...what?! [laughs]

GP: Right, [laughs]

Nesmith 28 KN; I mean, I go on tirades about that all the time. So, once the scene started branching off into, you know, quote-unquote "emo", I guess now [laughs], or Straight Edge and

Riot Grrrl... what differences in the sound or attitude could you sense?

GP; Well, see, again...it's weu'd...froni inside DC, there was no idea that there was a straight edge movement, same way there was no real idea that there was the riot grrrl movement. They were kind of terms that kind of got put on Ihmgs in retrospect, in a kind of weird way. Straight edge is for people who grew up here, like, knew Ian [MacKaye] or were a part ofthe scene or a band, il was jusl like, another song. Like...a lot ofthe kids in town didn't drink or smoke, or do these Ihmgs. And a lot of kids did... and everyone hung out. So it wasn't like this kind of...I think h got codified in a really weird way fi'oni people outside of town, who, smce they didn't know Ian or weren't really a kmd of, you know, wasn't on a first-name-basis kind ofthing is really easy for them to get it as like, the boys from Woodmonl High telling us whal to do. And really, it wasn't like that in town at all. I mean, I tliink DC was unique in that a lot of kids didn't do self- destructive stuff, because I think when Ian came up wilh the idea ofthe song and that idea that he expressed m Minor Tlueat, I think it was really compelling to people...the

was something that, you know, how could it be particularly rebellious when you know, everybody did it? From you know, adults to everyone else who did il. If you really wanted to be an individual, you would just kind of do whatever felt right to you. And some kids continue to drink, and some kids continue to take drugs, and they still... it

Nesmith 29 wasn't like they were ostracized, or there was like this weud kind of intense puritanical vibe, which 1 think a lot of people associated wilh DC, and it's kind of like, been this millstone around everyone's neck. This idea that people were really intolerant, or.. .and

it ended up becoming a pretty violent movement m other towns...

KN; Oh, yeah.

GP: Which, again, is one oflhose things which is a big drag. It'sjust stupid. Riot Grrrl was sunilar, I think, but the difference, I tliink, was that Riot Grrrl was pretty explicitly political and it had pretty explicit messages that were kind of core lo some of those bands to begin with. And the public perception of that didn't.. .wasn't so much to distort that, but kmd of make it more ofa cartoon. And I thuik that was unfortunate because the bands were incredible and the ideas were really important to punk rock in a lol of ways.

But agam. Riot Grrrl became this cartoon of like, you know.. .and h reached its fmal fruition in things like Spice Girls'' and "gul power" and marketed concepts that were easy to pull oul ofil and make saleable. Bul that really didn't have much to do wilh the

original bands. So, it's like...emo, Straight Edge, Riot Grrrl, they're all kind of ..they're

all similar in the sense that there's really strong ideas or maybe something really

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KN: Yeah.

Girl band, circa 1997

Nesmith 30 GP: ...And distorted it

KN: [laughing] Always seems lo happen.

GP: Yeah. It's kind of an epidemic.

KN: So, with the whole.. .going on with this whole thing about, I guess the DC punk scene sort of breaking offm retrospect... into the subgenres... what do you think about the hai'dcore scene? Was there really a hardcore scene that was going on al that time?

GP;Intheeai'Iy80s?

KN: Yeah.

GP:Ohyeah,defmiteIy!

KN; Yeah, that's what I thought!

GP: Yeah.

Nesmith 31 KN: So, I was reading Mark Anderson's Dance Of Days, and il seemed that a lot of people thought that the hardcore scene got...at some point got really cliche and sort of overrated. What are your thoughts on that?

GP: Yeah.. .1 thuik what happened was.. .there was this really intense burst of creativity that happened in...between 1979 and 1981, 82. And there was kmd ofthis lull where a lot of bands had broken up and a lot of. .Bad Brains had moved away from DC, Minor

Thi-eat had broken up. Faith had broken up. Void...it was just kind ofa period where people were jusl kind of figuring out what to do between '83 and '84. That's kind of when Rites of Spring started, again, and then tilings kind of changed. There was this...it was kind of like what I was talking about earlier, the scene kind of degenerating to become slightly violent and also kind of boring because the bands... it was like, all these new ideas had come out, and then suddenly, no one was having any fresh ideas. So it just kmd of stagnated a little bit. And there was this kind of, I mean, it Just kind of made sense, there was kind of like, peaks and valleys where really amazing things happened and then people have to regroup.. .and there's another peak moment again. It just takes tune. So there was a couple of years lo where things were kind of in flux, and people were just trying to figure out.. .and a lot of bands had jusl broken up. Aid then people

burst of bands righl around the time Rites of Spring was formed, and then after that fizzled out, there was another burst of bands around the time that Fugazi formed. Aid it just kmd of keeps going like that.

Nesmith 32 KN: Right. Yeah, because the hardcore scene today, I mean, the Httle bit that there is left of it, people tend to bash il, like the people that I talk to. When I say, "I went to a hardcore show," they're like, "oh, that's so overrated." Something like that. Do you think that all that.. .the lull sort of dragged on to here, lo today.. .do you think that affected il at all?

GP: I don't know, I mean, I don't really know that much aboul the hardcore scene m town now. I jusl don't really know that much about h. I mean, I kind of still play with the same guys...I feel a little bit like, outside ofil, so I can't...and I don't really think it's my place to judge like, if other scenes are like, valid or not. I mean, if they're valid for the people that are going to the shows, then to me, they're perfectly valid. I think it's more unique.,.I tliink some bands just...are great. And some bands are lousy.

[Laughing] That's just the way it is! It'sjust like, some people will have something fresh to say...with.. .even within genres. You know, you can have, you know, a rockabilly band playing basic formulas that have been around forever, but if they're doing something fresh with it and are really interesting, they can be doing sometliing great, you know?

GP: I think... but some people I think do become lazy. They see like, "okay, we can just do this genre, and if we can just get these certain tilings that make up the genre and get them right, then maybe we'll be a good band," but that's never the case. I mean, it has a

Nesmith 33 lot more to do with charisma, and you need unique ideas. The fact that people can still make sometliing interesting out of guitars and drums and singmg and stuff like that... because, I mean, it'sjust a format. Aid it's really about the individual, kind of artistic mind and what it's pushing tluough those instiTiments that makes the difference.

KN: Yeah. I mean, you think about bands that use cellos like Rasputina or Azure Ray, or anything like that...and it sounds so unique. But there are those other bands that are just dragging, and...I think I've heard them before, but I've never heard them before.

GP: [laughing] Right.

KN: So, moving back to the whole 'branching oIT, I guess. What are your thoughts, in retrospect, on straight edge and all the other movemenls that we've been talking about?

GP: I mean, it's kind of like what I said.. .there were a lot of really, really interesting ideas that came out of all those movements. And I think there was also a lot of distortions oflhose ideas, and every time that the distortion thing happens, il Jusl... it's another lesson learned. You have to really be careful about the way you express your

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Straight Edge as a song was really intense, and formed a lot of what we did m Fugazi. It was like, alright, this taught us that songs can be incredibly powerfiil, that they can go out into the...across the country and across the world, and really effect people's actual behaviour. I mean, it was kind of like,.. it was a heavy lesson to get when you're

Nesmith 34 teenagers.. .that you suddenly got kids in olher towns who have never met you who are crealuig gangs based on this stuff. Or doing all this crazy shit, It just really made everyone pause... we have to be really careftil about how we present our ideas. We have to be really clear, we have to be really careful aboul the way we do thmgs. And that's why Fugazi spent such an enormous amount of time just tiymg to make sure we did things right. We wanted the busuiess to make sense, we wanted the music to be accessible to people, we wanted, you know.. .so, really early on, we were like, "okay, the shows are cheap, the shows are gomg to be all-ages, we're gomg to make sure that, you know, we do our own booking, and that where at times that we're not being used by any managerial, you know, apparatus, we're going to produce oui- own music, we're going to figure out ways to run the show..." Everything became really, really, really serious lo us, because we just realized... it was like, we weren't naive anymore. It wasn't like we were just playing to a few friends, we suddenly had realized that there was an audience out there, and we felt responsible for makmg sure that people who came to our shows didn't get, you know, didn't get hurt, and that the people who came to om' shows... like, at the time, were able to come without feeling like they were being robbed or whatever. It was really all those things were really imporlant to us. Aid then, within the music, we wanted to be really sure that we were presenting ourselves lyrically and musically.

with the media and leery with doing a lot of press because we saw how usually, the press can kmd of. .you know. I think bands ai-e really fi'agile things, and when they see themselves reflected back in the press in a way that doesn't look right to them, it really messes with your head. And I think a lot of bands broke up really quickly because they

Nesmith 35 couldn't deal with this wefrd version that was kmd of getting spewed back on them,

They were like, "man, this is..." [trails off]. So we were really careful. Okay, we're just going to try lo keep the way that the band is presented and keep with the way that we see ourselves. 'Because we don't want it to end up bemg some kind of weird, freaky funhouse mirror that we have to look at all the time. We wanna be like ourselves. I thhik we were pretty successful in doing that. We were able to keep il going for a long time without it feeling that it got out of our control.

KN; Because of that, I guess, sort of distortion, did you see any bands sort of fall inlo that you know, "image band" trap? Trymg to act tough, or trying to be different...?

GP: I can never call other bands out m mterviews, but sure, I saw tons of bands that kind of lost control of what was happening, and a lot of times, it had really dark effects on them,..people who really messed up their lives because they just...just couldn't...! mean, it's an mtense dilemma. Particularly with something as personal as music. When you're making music, but suddenly, feel really awftil about the way that you're havmg to do it or awful about the way you have to present yourself, I think it really...it causes, without bemg, you know, too over the top, il causes weird psyeliic damage to you. I think il's

KN: Oh, right. I would think so. I mean, I can't even miagine what that would do to anyone. But, how do you think the 80s DC punk scene is perceived by other people? I mean, if you can even speculate on that.

Nesmith 36 GP: Yeah, I don't know, it's weird. There's the books like Dance of Days> which you read and stuff like that. In a lot of terms, I feel like they don't really get it right. Or a lot ofthe representations of it don't get it right. Then I realize that it's only because I had such an in-depth experience with it, it's always going to seem weii'd. I have to kuid of cut the books some slack, because they're trying to represent something that's hard to represent completely, unless I guess you were there or something like that. But I thmk that the city gets a lot of respect. I think that a lot of that respect is deserved. I mean, I always talk a lot about the Bad Brains in interviews because I don't think they get enough attention for whal they did. I think that they musically and lyrically and just performance-wise.. .1 mean, anyone who saw them back then.. .1 mean, I have never seen a band as good as them live, ever. Aid any band that I've ever been in, I thought that the

Bad Brains were the benclunark, and I've never seen a bands deliver the goods like they did. Bul I definitely think Jusl you know, the Dischord label and stuff like that.. .it's gotten a lot of respect and it's gotten a lot of attention, so I don't feel like it's one oflhose things where the city hasn't gotten the "to-do". I thmk it's actually gotten the to-do. And

I tliink it's because the most part, people here are so...on top of things, I thuik for the most part, il's been a pretty accurate reflection of what actually happened, which is cool.

KN: Yeah. So...do you think that,..I guess, did the DC punk scene...has it's message, or multiple messages, I guess, sort of live on today and changed youth cultuie around here now?

Nesmith 37 GP: I think the biggest thuig that it changed, I thmk what Dischord did for the kind of

DIY [Do It Yourself] concept, took that idea that people can make their own records or

book their own shows...that whole thing...I really do think that...before that, I felt...I think people had the sense that okay, we can do bands...but I tliink there's always this

idea that, you know.. .it seemed impossible, bul bands were always in the back of their minds, "maybe if we gol signs, maybe if someone would heai' us...", but mosl people...it just seemed too out of reach, but then suddenly, there was this idea that, hey! You loiow, you could put out your own records, and you can make sure that people will hear you. I think that idea has had such a huge repercussion, I mean, there are so many independent labels now, and every scene is documented, and kids are so much more savvy aboul ways to do that. I thuik that there's definitely a legacy of Dischord and the DC thing, 'because it was Just... it was literally teenagers putting the scene together, and il was like a business that's like running to this day. Aid it's sold records all around the world. And I think that's kmd ofa model for people.. .that you can do it on... in a really unique way. I mean, the whole thing with like, keeping the prices down, and documented in a specific town.

The things are really interesting ideas that they have been reproduced pretty successfiilly by a lot of kids, and a lot of kids have gone out on tours and stuff like that, and figured out ways to make it work, and I tliuik it's an amazing tlung.

KN: Yeah, I know that myself and a lot of friends have been really inspired by Dischord, and just the entire scene as a whole. One ofmy friends runs a venue about two minutes away from here called The Basement, and I'm promoting shows for them now.

Nesmith 38 GP: Oh, that's cool!

KN: And it's all because ofthis.

GP: Thai's awesome.

KN: So it's really interesting to hear all ofthis. So, I guess, the evolution ofthe scene as a whole, what do you tliink about it? How should I pluase this? It seems so vast now...that all ofthis can happen in Georgetown... like 10 minutes away fi'om here. I guess, what do you tliink about that? Aid how do you think it has impacted the city and everything else?

GP: [pause] It's weird. Like...it's fiinny. I haven't actually done a lot of interviews lately. This is probably the only interview I've done ui like a year or somethmg like that.

So it's kind of strange because when I tliink about how much time has gone by.. .it's kind of intense for me, because it'sjust kind of hard to believe that you're doing a high school paper and this is enough ofa topic for you to be able to submit.. .and it gets weii-d! [both laugh] It's strange! And I realize, I mean, it's like,,.a lot of sluff happened, and what

then it disappeared, like.. .1 think a lot of scenes in other towns.. .1 mean, a town like LA is Just so huge and so diffijsed, it'd be like there's this punk scene and it would kind of like., .[trails off] Whereas here, it was really kmd of community based. I mean, it was really a small group of people mitially, and they kind of grew up together, and they

Nesmith 39 continued to grow up together. And people kind of stayed here, you know? It Just became kind of ..it was just integrated into the way people lived theu- lives, based in a community... and I think il was Jusl different, because il wasn't...the content wasn't so career-minded. I mean, the idea that it ended up being what I did with my life just still seems strange to me, because there was never a moment where I was like, "I'm a professional musician", you know? It never occuired to me! I just...kind of kept stumbling into things and kept saying yes to things, and things jusl kept happening, and you know, snowballing. And eventually, you kind of look back, and you're like, "wow!"

I'm 40 now, and I can't believe that tliis continues to go on! It'sjust seems strange. So, it's kmd of hard for me to think about the evolution ofil, because I'm just kind of as stunned by it as everyone else. It just feels like life, you know?

KN: Right.

GP: That's what it kmd of feels like to me, it just feels like life. And I think the best thing I ever did was not really have that much ofa map. [laughs] I Just kind of let things happen and was open to things and worked really hard.. .and things jusl occmred, you know?

KN; Yeah.

Nesmith 40 GP: It's kind of amazing the way life...it opens up roads, and if you're,..you go for il, and you're like.,, it's not really luck, bul if you end up really, you know, fmding really good allies and people to work wilh, then some really amazing stuff can happen.

KN: Yeah. Wliat do you think sort of aided the movement the mosl, other than... I guess, well, not really "other than",.. eh, just whal really aided the movement.. .Just the kids who were in it?

GP: I think il really was that, I think it was the energy in the kids themselves. I remember like.. .there was never this huge sense.. .there were a few people, key people, that really helped make things happen, who were like Don Zentero, who runs ?Under

Ear? Records...the fact that he took kids into his basement and slarled recording them, and that he was interested enough in documenting. I mean, he was a really key figure.

There was another guy. Skip Groff, who used to riui this record store in Rockville that I worked at for a while, called Yesterday Today. He was another key guy who put money behind some ofthe bands and hired a lot of us to work al his store. And for me, that was as important an education as anything I ever learned in school., .was working at that store, because I was always.. .the other guys who worked there were much older than me,

the way to the 70s, and he could tell you what was on both sides. I mean, he could fell you..,he was amazing.

KN: That's incredible!

Nesmith 41 GP: He was a total musical genius. All this vinyl would come in, and I would just listen

to the whole history of music, and it opened up my mind out to avenues of stuftTliat I

normally wouldn't have even considered. There's so much to learn about so many other

kinds of music. It was great. And that was a really big thing. Aid another person, I

guess, would be Dody Bowers...

KN: Right, the 9:30 Club.

GP: ..Who used to book the old 9:30 Club.

KN: [laughs]

GP: And she was kind of early on, and she kmd of saw the kids and cut everybody a

break, because a lot ofthe clubs were banning the bands. I mean, the fust time most of

these people saw slanidancing, they thought, "oh my god, my club's going to get

destroyed"...they couldn't understand what was happening!

)

GP: So, they would immediately end it because ofthe fights.. .they would ban a lot ofthe t > groups. And I think that's one ofthe reasons Bad Brains had to leave, because I tliink f they Just couldn't get any gigs here. But Dody was really cool, because she started

putting all these matinee, all-ages shows on for kids here. Being able to play when

Nesmith 42 you're like 15, 16 years old and go down to a place like the old 9:30 Club, not like...it was in a different part of town...

KN: Right.

GP: To get to play on a stage and kind of play gigs and sluff like that, that was huge! It was like, stepping up out ofthe basement, actually playmg on a stage, and that was because she kmd of, .1 mean, I think as a businessperson, she saw that kids were going to by the tickets, but also.. .she also took the risk. She was like, "I'll turn my club over to these kids, and let's see what happens." There was some key people along the way, il wasn't just self-motivated. I mean, there was definitely older people who kind of, like, you know, they kmd of gave good advice, and they look chances wilh some ofthe kids.

But really, a lot of it was self-motivated, and a lot ofil was jusl...Just that energy of being young, you know?

KN; Yeah, I mean, I'm tliinking about the 9:30 Club, and it's huge now!

GP: Yeah, it's a totally different venue.

KN: I always go to shows there. I Just got a $75 gift certificate there, and I'm psyched.

[Laughs]

GP: Oh, cool!

Nesmith 43 KN: But I have fi'iends in California who...I'll be like, "oh, there's this club here called the 9:30 Club," and they'll be like, "oh my god, you get to go to the 9:30 Club?" [both laugh]

GP: The old one was down at 9"' and S Street. Aid it was...I mean, you could probably fit the old club in the dressing room ofthe new club.

KN; Oh, really?

GP: It was really... it was so small, and so rough and wretched. But the new one is super state-of-the-art, and it's ?really nice? lo see a show.

KN: Yeah, it's nice!

GP: But the old one, man...I mean, you can see it in the Minor Tlireat video, that's what the old club was like.

GP: If you ever get to see that. The Mmor Threat Live video. That's what the old club looked like.

KN: I should get that!

Nesmith 44 GP; Yeah, it's great. It's really good.

KN: Yeah, I mean, tiiat's crazy. I guess...was il more like, I guess, the Black Cat is now?

GP: It was smaller than that.

KN: Are you serious?! Wow!

GP; It was much smaller than the Black Cat. And it was really strangely shaped...il had these weird columns in the middle of it, and you always...the sight lines would be really messed up. Aid the neighborhood.. .now that there's the MCI Center and all of that, the neighborhood's kind of come up.

KN: Right.

GP: But back in the old days, it was pretty rough, I mean, it was just.. .you know. Rats

•k* Ifk/l^hl L/k/lll l.ltbUll.W>l.

KN: [laughs]

Nesmith 45 GP: It was just really sketchy down there. So you'd go down there, and you'd be like,

"man, tliis is really crazy!" There was that and the DC Space, kind of within blocks of each other, and those two venues were like.. .completely my headquarters for like a decade. I mean, I just went lo shows there all the time. It was awesome,

KN: Incredible, But do you think that the venues really.. .did more venues pop up after the 9:30 Club and... which one did you jusl say?

GP: DC Space,

KN: DC Space.

GP: DC Space was really big too, because DC Space was [laughing] even smaller than the 9:30! But what they did there...il was like, 9:30 always took slightly more established things, and DC Space would do shows that were more...even more kind of underground, kind of Between the two, those two places.. .that's where most ofthe shows would happen. And there was also,. .there were kind of more community spaces, like Wilson Center.

KN: Okay.

GP; Wliich was more ofa church basement that ?held gigs? and be rented out by kids, and shows would be set up there. And there was stuff like Chevy Chase Coimnunity

Center had shows for a while. There'd always be someplace that someone would fmd.

Nesmith 46 and you'd get to do shows there for a while. Like, Chevy Chase Community Center.. .1 think 3 shows happened there before diey fmally pulled the plug on it, but.. .we did have

DC Space and the 9:30, they were actually venues. They were established.. .so they weren't going to instantly close up shop and the police weren't going lo shut them down.

So it was good to have those.

KN: Yeah, that must have been nice to have a stage.

GP: Yeah, a stage and a sound system! It was really.. .it was key.

KN: So, just going back.,.I'm just completely mystified that everyone did, like, did their own booking and everything else, and Just went at it.

GP: [nods]

KN; Do you think that, I guess now, there's so many promoters.. .like, I know I promote a bunch of bands and manage a band.. ,do you fliink that's a good or a bad thing?

mean, the music has to have someone supporting them, and it has to have some kind of infi-aslructure. No matter if it's underground or over ground, whatever, I mean, there has to be something going on, I think the trick is that it'sjust not that hard to figure out, I mean, you make mistakes. I know I had a record label called Peterbilt, and my big

Nesmith 47 mistake was that I thought I had I thought ofa really genius way to package the records by buying nianila envelopes and kind of cutting them down to 12 inches, and just stuffing the records in them.

KN: [laughuig] Okay...

GP: And it was like, after putting a thousand of those things into a nianila envelope, I thought I was going to die.

KN: [laughs]

GP: Because sometimes it didn'l fit, or I'd get paper cuts, and uh.., [laughing] you make mistakes,

KN: [laughing] Right.

GP: But you just kind of find your way thi'ough it. But now, I mean, it's crucial. I mean, people like you, at your age, setting venues for bands lo play. Whatever lessons you're

1 - '.. , ;• - • _'.". '. : • .^ .1- -' ,.. ,«-iHJ.t Ot UUiU^ -iiiii., ; ~ ... k. ...^k i» i...^ j-jj J ij •.! kliu J.UkI<. "-^^ J UWl Jljl

KN: I mean, I'm all for restoring the scene and everything. A bunch of people and I have been talking, saying that the scene's sort of deteriorated, and gotten sort of overrated, I

Nesmith 48 guess. Not ofthe 1980s, but now. Just, you know, a bunch ofthe metalcore bands and sluff like that. I don't know. I don't have a chance to be in a band, because I'm just way too busy, I guess...how do you think that people can Just kind of get back together again and recreate the same sort of atmosphere that you had in the 80s?

GP: I don't think it's important to so much recreate il, as il is to Just...you know, just kmd of create your own road and your own space, whalever's like, making you happy or whatever the bands now.. .whalever's like, motivating them. It can't be a reflection of what happened before because the cii'cuinstances are so different. So, it's like...whatever you do will be your own tiling. And it'sjust as valid, and it'sjust as cool. Aid il could be cooler!

KN: Righl.

GP: I mean, that's the thing. That was one tiling that we learned, is like.. .there was like a generation of guys before us in DC who had been domg bands, and I'd seen a lot of those groups, and I respected them and stuff like tliat. But we never wanted to reproduce what they were doing, we wanted to blow them off the stage!

KN: [Laughmg] Right!

GP: We wanted to take over! And I think that's what every generation should want to do, like, just take it over for yourself, and make it real for yourself I mean, I think it's

Nesmith 49 cool. I'm always psyched when people say, "ah, I'm inspired by this record that you worked on" or, "I'm really inspired by tliis [inaudible]". 1 mean, I drew so much inspiration fi'om the Beatles. Aid that seems so random to a lot of people. But it was immediately just like, I mean , I was obsessed with them, you know? It wasn't like I wanted to be playing Beatles songs, I wanted to be doing something thai had ils own energy, you know? So I think tliat's kind ofthe mandate for kids today, is just lo find... you know, be mspired! Find your own source of energy.

KN: I mean, I think of,.Jusl going in my head, just thinking of like, "8 Days a Week" by the Beatles and looking at like.. ."Facet Squared" [by Fugazi], don't really see the coiuiection!

GP: See, there you go!

KN: That's interesting though. Because I mean, my friend's in like a Fugazi cover band.

[Laughs]

GP: That's pretty hard to do!

KN: [Both laugh] Yeah...they're probably not going to last long. But, I mean, it'sjust crazy, I usually try to find the more obscure bands who have a really weird sound to them or something. You know. There's this band based out of Arizona, The Stiletto

Formal, who are just...incredible.

Nesmith 50 KN: [laughs]

GP: This band that I like, barely know about! But the amazing thing is like.. .that's why

I think bands are like, it's miportant, even if you feel sometimes like, "ah man, we didn't do anything" or like, "we weren't that significant", you'd be surprised. It's like..,people are inspired by so much. People are so.. .1 mean, I slill am like, discovermg bands fiom like the 60s and 70s that blow my mmd, and it'sjust, so much stuff out there! And it doesn't all need lo be successful on a commercial scale to be valid, you know?

KN: Oh, yeah. I'm all aboul trying to stay away from... well, I like a lot of mainstream stuff, I will admit, but I try to slay away and fmd sort ofthe little obscure bands.. .try to help them out and stuff Is that the way the scene grew? People just wanting to find out about more and more bands?

GP: Yeah! And I think, you know, making connections with kids fi'om other towns.

And then having them come and bring their bands here, and then hosting our bands when we went there, and then it kind of grew fi'oin that. We made friends back then, you know, when I was really young, that were.. .it was incredible. It was so weii'd, I really do

iub>> uiiu Liiv.'iA vrw u. write them, and they'd write us back. And we'd always be so blown away and so exciting. And we'd always make these weird connections with some incredibly odd

English band like the Dead Wretched. But it was great! It was cool, because you really fell like there was this weird, subterranean underground network that was happening that

Nesmith 52 just wasn't.. .you know, just wasn't reflected anywhere else but in the, kind of like, substructure thai was bemg created, that was just,,,extremely, totally obscure...but vitally cool.

KN; Right. It's inspired so many people. These friends I have in California are jusl all over this sluff, I mean, I fmd it really incredible. Even my friends who are into the really mainstream, like the Ashlee Simpson's and everything...fhey know Dischord. And they know of Minor Threat.., they haven't actually ever heard Minor Tlueat, but you know.

GP: Yeah, cool.

KN: Flow do you even begin to comprehend that impact?

GP: It's intense. I don't know. The thing is, as you get older, you're going to keep finding things that blow your mind. I mean, to me, it's like.. .1 don'l know. To me, it just seems like passing the torch. There were so many bands that blew my mind. I feel that if somebody feels inspfred by what we did, it's returning the favour we got from so many other groups, you know?

KN: Right.

Nesmith 53 GP: I feel like it's just...it's cyclical, and it Just gets passed down. And I mean, that's just the way music works. I mean, it all came from somewhere, and people Just keep passing the torch, so.

KN: That's really incredible. So, other than the Beatles... what other bands were you really influenced by?

GP: When 1 was young?

KN: Yeah. Or now, I guess. Whatever!

GP: I was really into like, those bands that I mentioned like the Clash, and the English bands like the Adverts, and seeing the Ramones was huge. And Patti Smith'^ had a gigantic influence on me. And actually, just a couple months ago, I got to play with her.

Which was really,..

KN: That's INCREDIBLE!

liighlights ofmy life. It was really intense. Because it's like, that's pretty wild. Someone that I saw when I was so young, and then getting to the point where I could actually play with her was pretty.. .really was awesome. But back fhen, I was always really inlo 60s stuff. I was really mto the Beatles, I was into a lot of those like, kind of like...even like

Influential female punk artist ofthe 70s and 80s.

Nesmith 54 weii'd mod bands like Small Face and sluff like that, and the band Zombies...and then a lot of punk rock stuff, then particulai'ly bands like Black Flag, Meat Puppets, a lot of those SST groups were really huge for us. Minute Men, certainly. Rites of Spring got to play with the Mmute Men, and that was really inspirational for us. They were really good. So there was, you know, just a kind of mish-inash ofa lot of stuff. And like I said, working at that record store..,I've jusl gol a really enormous record collection basically from working at that store. [Laughs] I have a really widespread taste of stuff that I'm into. But back then, il was like, I remember right before Rites of Spring, in the studio, the two things I was really listening to was like, there was this Otis Redding record called

"Dictionary of Soul", which 1 was really blown away by. Aid an Adverts record called

"Cast ofThousands"...thosetwo...and the Stooges' "FunHouse"...

KN: I have that!

GP: Those thi'ee records really uispfred me before we made that record. I'm still jusl completely in love with music, and I'm still hearing things all the time that... and I just can't believe how great they are, and I'm always finding different things.. .so it's cool,

Mm.^ %, Ak u iixvw kij iivkti. kti-ut. J kJk* lltt » w b t \^1^ LlIJ_llj^ I.ILJ.111, ^IJIJ iVllO ¥*, vy tlO Jl>.^UUillg, 1 lllVUll, awesome, and the Beatles... it's just the most random mix ever, [laughs]

GP: Yeah, it's really random, [laughs]

Nesmith 55 KN: So many bands now, you know, I ask them whal their mfiuences are, it all seems to be fi-om like, one tiny little genre, it's just like...

GP: I think a lot of that has to do like, when you're young. When you're young, you're kind of like.. .1 mean, I was kind of that way too when I was in high school. I became really super-opinionated about thmgs. But I do think that as you get older, you starl to relax a little bit, and you jusl think like, "well, il's not that big a-fticking deal ifi like this odd thing, or this thing". You know, I jusl happen to like it. And you start to be less hard on yourself and less diligent. But there's something I guess, about that kind of hardcore parameter thing, it's almost kind of cool in a way, because it kind of like, it Jusl shows how...I think there is sometliing about young people and the way they identify wilh music and how intense that is...that it's really unique. And that's why we always insisted on all-ages shows is because young kids, they will come to your shows, and they will give so much passion and energy because they.. .it's speaking to them at a point in their lives when they're having a hard lime articulating things. So it's such an important time m music. As you get older, maybe, for a lot of people, maybe their identification with music changes in some way. For me, it never really did. I slill feel really into il, but I just hear so much more...and the more 1 play guitar and the more I learn about music, I

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Nesmith 56 KN: Yeah, so I guess then really, that music in general has just really impacted so many people. I'm just thinking, it'sjust almost...it's unmeasurable,

GP; There's something about it that goes beyond the lyrics. The combination ofthe lyrics and music and unages and attitudes,..il's such a total art form, or something like that, Il's always going to be really frnportant for people, because it jusl has this..,the way that music can articulate that you...that you feel and it'sjust, it's incredible. It just has such a huge unpad. I mean, I used to sit in my room and Just soak up music when I was young, and I was.. .and all I wanted to do was Just understand it, or like, how do these bands do tliis? And the thing that's really amazing is that I just couldn't figure out.. .1 wasn't technical enough to Jusl listen to records and figure oul what people were doing, so il was always this kind of like... it was always like magic to me. Even when I was m a band, and even now, like, I've never been tecluiically schooled. So it's always had this kind of aura of being magical in this weird way, like, how do people make this happen?

So, it's always for me, making music... it's always like, I actually sometmies can't believe it's happening, like, ah! This is the way things fit together! It kind of blows your mind. Now, m a way, I'm kuid of glad that I kmd of have never really had schooled myself that much, because to me, it's always so exciting like when I figure out a chord or

,k..— wki. ki ..1^.1, kJl f^-^J "'o- a kind of really weird gift, you know?

KN: Yeah, I know how you feel about that. I got my first guitar when I was m 6"^ grade...and I started my fust lesson, like, ever.,,two weeks ago?

Nesmith 57 GP; Oh really?

KN: Yeah, at school. Just group lessons.

GP: Is that your guitar? [Points to guitar]

KN; Yes, it is!

GP: That's cool!

KN; Brand new, got it for Cluistmas.

GP: Cool.

KN: Yeah, but I know exactly how that feels to finally, like, figure out a riff by ear,

GP: It's amazing, yeah.

KN: My teacher always yells at me because he wants me to leam all the theory. And I do to, to a very large extent, but I like figuring things oul by ear and not,,.

Nesmith 58 GP: I've been lucky. Two ofthe guys in Fugazi were piano-trained... like, Ian and

Brendan both knew how to play piano really well, and Brendan reads music and all that stuff. I've learned so much from guys who are schooled, so I got a...there's definitely something to be said for, I kind of wish,, ,1 really want to get a piano so that my kid will have that grounding because.. .if I had understood better, some of that sluff earlier might have made a lot of tilings easier [both laugh].

KN: Yeah, I took piano for what, like 2 years? 3 years?

GP: But that's great, because it'll always be in the back of your nund. You at least understand like how the octaves work, or where the notes are hit or something like that.

No, that's good. That's really good.

KN: Well, I guess with that...that's all of my questions! So...

GP: Do you think you got enough?

KN: Yeali! Definitely!

GP: Good!

KN: So thank you very much.

Nesmith 59 Interview Analyst's

"So, it's kind of hard for me to think about the evolution of [the DC punk scene], because I'm just kind of as stunned by it as everyone else," says interviewee Guy

Picciotto. The evolution ofthe Washington, DC punk scene ofthe 1980s was mcredibly important and slill growing almost ad nauseam. In retrospect ofthe 1980s, one can see the effects of such a scene: the development of straight edge (no mind-altermg substances or casual sex), riot grrrl (punk feminism), and emo (or, emotional haidcore). The effects are everlasting on a national and international scale. In the interview, Picciotto recalled his travels with Fugazi (for whom he played guitar). "I mean, we toured everywhere. We toured Malaysia! We played Singapore. We played Japan. Brazil, Chile...everywhere.

And it's shockmg to be playing m Malaysia, and kids are smging along to some of these songs," This interview not only showed the extreme importance and world-wide achievements ofthe DC punk scene, but also displayed the significance and meaning of oral history. Oral history shows an incredibly unique perspective on any specific event that the interviewee is linked to. Il provides and insight that exceeds that of textbooks, in that the interviewee is able to lell his or her story without trymg to, as historian Arthur

Schlessinger said, "strive for objectivity", but is also able to display historical significance. In this interview, Picciotto was able to verify that the evolution ofthe DC punk scene has mfluenced youth culture today. Even though he was not able to fathom all ofthe effects at once, he pointed out (at different pomls in the interview) tliat particular parts ofthe scene have lasted today, particulai'ly the straight edge culture. Therefore, this interview was historically important because it proved how the DC punk scene has influenced youth culture from a unique and personal perspective on the subject,

Nesmith 60 Guy Picciotto, a key player in the 1980s Washington, DC punk scene, verified that that particular scene's messages spread across Anerica, and the world. The messages of such cultures (and the bands that went along with them) like Riot Grrrl and the band

Bikini Kill still resonate today m bands like Sleater-Kumey and Le Tigre, The interview started with asking Picciotto whal his musical uifluences were as a child. He responded that his family was not musical. His father was in a three-piece band called The Thi'ee

Musketeers, which consisted only of harmonicas. Picciotto then proceeded to talk about his childhood experiences with music, such as when he received his fust guitar. He said that the classes he look were worthless, seeing that they only bothered to leach songs on one siring, and nothing of value. Picciotto said that, "I knew it wasn't what I wanted, you know. At that point, I just decided that I didn't want to take lessons anymore. So, I just kind of got some chord books and learned some chords on my own." The uiterview moved to how Picciotto decided to enter the DC punk scene, Enticmg elements such as record stores m Georgetown (and the people who gathered there), and a controversial radio station based at Georgetown Universily called WGTB. WGTB broadcasted the more mfluential bands at the tmie, but was eventually shut down because of actions such as airing abortion clinic advertisements out ofa catholic institution. The interview continued to go onto how Picciotto was able to scene develop. He noted that everything wwiituttiij giwy Ul uwLii \^i^\.' u.ix\.t ititjvuituti^w. JL KJI *.jj\uiixyi^jy it\j a

9:30 Club. Picciotto also stated that since DC is not as large a city as Los Angeles,

California, the scene was not able to fade mto the background, but remauied an important part of DC culture. He also mentioned the development and growth of Dischord Records,

Nesmith 61 a record label which is still thriving today. Picciotto said he entered the DC scene in about 1979, and from there, music and the punk scene became somewhat of an obsession. He also made a point of saying that all the bands and the kids witlim the scene did all their own booking and promoting, wliich is unpressive by even today's standards.

This clearly shows historical significance. In the present day music scene, all bands, whether obscure or mamstreain, have a street team, promoters, and managers. The fact that each band was completely DIY (Do It Yourself) shows that times have indeed changed, and gives an imporlant look into the development of nol only the DC punk scene, but the music industry as a whole.

The interview continued by touching on the topic of problems encountered in the scene. Picciotto replied, "If you went to Georgetown to hang oul on the weekend, you were going to get in a fight. Like, some Marines would try to fight you, people were much, much older than you." The issue with violence was the only dominating problem. Other topics discussed consisted of how stores can never manufacture the ideas ofthe scene and how Picciotto used to find out about bands. Picciotto is arguably the founding father ofthe subgeiue "emo". The interview proceeded to touch on that subject, by asking Picciotto's opinion on the common perception of emo, Fle responded, shockuigly, by saying that he does not know how lo define emo, Picciotto said that the

'!:'*"'& i^wi*k-w . ^ t. . f 11111. 1* Wkwn^k.jjk,*,kl Uk.Llk.'S^k,. kllb.! W^UI V. IIV.' \A\J\,U not know what to think of that particular term. Continuing on the topic ofthe breaches in the punk scene, Picciotto shared his thoughts on Riot GriTl. He staled that it was a profound feminist movement, but in an attempt to brmg if back with things such as "girl power" and The Spice Girls, the media distorted the idea to make it sellable. The

Nesmith 62 discussion digressed, talking about the 80s hardcore scene. Picciotto articulated that the hardcore scene encountered a lull hi creativity, but had random and exciting bursts of originality. The interview prolonged by delving into how the scene's messages have lived on. Picciotto said that, '1 tliink the biggest thing that it changed, I thmk what Dischord did for the kind of DIY [Do It Yom'self) concept, took that idea that people can make their own records or book their own shows." The scene left a legacy, especially with

Dischord, that still exists ui the present day.

This interview with Guy Picciotto revealed an insider's view ofthe DC punk scene, and proved that the scene's messages still live today. Therefore, the interview was historically valuable. In Mark Anderson's book, Dance of Days, the last two luies confum everything Picciotto staled in the interview. "Well, what are you waiting for? Life is short, and you were always the most important piece ofthis stoiy anyway— the pari that reinams to be told" (416), Just as Picciotto stated, the scene's messages are still alive, and a new generation of kids in the DC ai-ea have to take the scene and make it their own. On this topic during the interview, Picciotto exclaimed, "So I think that's kind ofthe mandate for kids today, is Just to fmd..,you know, be inspired! Find your own source of energy." The fact that Picciotto slill has such a vast amount of faith in supporters ofthe scene today validates that this interview was not only historically

kii^iii^ik Hit lii&;3ii> that the evolution ofthe DC punk scene influences and effects youth culture today, and will continue to do so.

My interview with Guy Picciotto was one ofthe most valuable and inspirational moments ofmy life, I am still m absolute awe that he is still a huge supporter ofthe

Nesmith 63 scene, even though many people have commented on how the scene has deteriorated. I was also interested in hearing that Picciotto did not necessarily know what to make ofthe term "emo", since I have always thought of him being the godfather ofthe genre. All in all, this intei'view made me want to get even more involved in the DC music scene, even though I alieady promote and manage bands and shows. If was an incredible experience, and I feel like I walked away from the uiterview having learned a huge amount, and havmg had many ofmy ideas validated.

Nesmith 64 Time Indexing Log

Interviewer; Katie Nesmith Interviewee: Guy Picciotto Date of Interview: 6 January 2006 Location of Interview: Interviewer's Flouse in Bethesda, Maryland

Recording Format: Digital

Minute Mark Topics Presented in Order of Discussion in Recording

5 Childhood, musical influences, and WGTB, a controversial punk and alternative radio station. 10 The development ofthe DC scene, the growth of Dischord Records, meeting Brendan Caimy and forming Insurrection (first band), friendships, and how having no concept of how to do something can help in the long run.

15 Promoting and management, contacting other kids in different areas to get shows together, problems with the scene (violence, etc.), and the recent mass manufacturing of punk fashion.

20 Punk ethics, how radio effects music, nostalgia, common perception of emo (and emo in general), when the term came about. Also, Riot Grrrl, Straight Edge: perceptions of those movements uiside and outside of DC during the scene and now.

25 DC hardcore scene: during the 80s and also today, cannot Judge the validity ofa scene. Also, what makes a good band.

30 Thoughts in retrospect about the scene and its sub-scenes,

how powerful music can be and how careful one must be

image bands and the outside perception ofthe DC scene.

35 DC scene's effects on youth culture today, DIY, the vastness ofthe impact and allover evolution ofthe scene. 40 The energy ofthe movement, support from others (financial and otherwise), Dody Bowers and the 9:30 Club, and venues.

Nesmith 65 45 More talking aboul venues, promoting and managing as an aid, Peterbilt Records, restoring today's scene, creating "your own source of energy".

50 DC scene's impact on America and the world, world lours, word getting around worldwide aboul even the mosl obscure bands, how inspii'ational the DC scene is, passing the scene down to a new generation.

55 Picciotto's musical influences, maturing and being able to widen one's musical spectrum, how music can articulate things that a listener might not be able lo.

60 Not being classically trained, figuring out instruments without lessons, advantages and disadvantages of groundhig in music theory.

Nesmith 66 Works Consulted

1. Anderson, Mark, and Mark Jenkins. Dance of Days: A Decade of Punk in the Nation's

Capital. 2001. New York: Akashic Books, 2003.

2. "Drugs in the '80s." Nosalgia Central. 4 Dec. 2005

.

3. "History, 1981 - 1986." History of AIDS. 4 Dec. 2005

.

4. Lecture/Drug Czars. 10 Dec. 2005

.

5. Radin, Andy. "History." Wliat the Heck Is Emo, Anyway? 2004. 4 Dec. 2005

.

6. Reinarman, Craig. "The Politics of Drug Policy: Deja Vu All Over Again,"

. .! 1 /to

JSTOR. 10 Dec. 2005 . Path: Drugs mthe 1980s;

Reagan,

Nesmith 67 7. "Rites of Spring,'Theme (Ifi Started Crying)'Lyrics." Punk Lyrics. 2005. 2 Dec.

2005

.

8. Rosenburg, Jessica, and Gitaiia Garofalo. '*Riot Grrrl: Revolutions from Within."

Published Essay. 2 Dec. 2005 . Path: Riot Grirl; Washington,

DC.

Nesmith 68