THE SENATE OF PAKISTAN DEBATES
OFFICIAL REPORT Tuesday, May 08, 2012 (81 st Session) Volume V, No. 06 (Nos. 01-09)
CONTENTS
Pages 1. Recitation from the Holy Quran……..………… 1 2. Questions and Answers……...………………… 2-21 3. Leave of Absence……………………………… 22 4. Discussion on Presidential Address…………… 23-42
Printed and Published by the Senate Secretariat, Islamabad.
Volume-V SP.V(06)/2012 No. 06 15 SENATE OF PAKISTAN SENATE DEBATES
Tuesday, May 08, 2012
The Senate of Pakistan met in the Senate Hall (Parliament House) Islamabad, at thirty four minutes past five in the evening, with Mr. Chairman (Syed Nayyer Hussain Bokhari) in the Chair.
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1 r V …… V V V w …… V / / V J1 V 2‡2:, [ N 272:KB ˆ 52:‰ ˆ 5 ‰ ( ^7 H)2bd42@^2*Io A 2Z* so 2Z* s o 27A 29^22:;I N 42: F 2<7 † S,H ( @o 7 KB)229I 2<7w 72<4 x M V V J W a:fB 2u@To 2: A 2<427,IH 29LK 2u7 H 2:[ 2= 42: ˆ 5 ‰ . . . ( ( 32 @o29 v@Io Ž42˘ •d b23b7 Œ) Questions and Answers V M S[ V / - SH V ‘- ’,F r H V a‡,H @– 2“I 29]42•”I • t 242=, 222a?I *429x • *x 42642? 2:9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H V V M … V •~ U V / / / V V S[ V / Jh[ 2‡, H @– 2= 42*II d*T 2b4d4]IhT/ 2* bd2)™o 7TH 2!v2@, h,H :( ‡T KB d2—I NTH) “I 29]42•”I • t 24}•hI I r V A ..N,,JYSw N J Y V A V JL 2c 2‡›II 2v42a=,, 72v4*KB H 2‡ › 22`@o TQ42c Minister of State 2:A 2<422bd429I K 2}@K L,o 2: [ 2` š1 V . V A V JL V Jqp . V ’A m 22)• 2:fB request 2:[ 2_5n 2c 2<42a9 I K questions 2b@TQ 2:A 2<422a:f B 29I 2b@I h JQ 4272=A 7F2*T/ 2c, 4* H . . . r J . RDW J1 V 2:\N• 2: x 223d272:F F 72<@K B qIpFederal Minister 2*42)w• 2<72@KB hO, 29I 22a:F @2@^2*, QI o A defer 27A 2<4 V . . N,JY A JL ž p 2gˆ d2u423d2bd42:fB 2v4*, H 2‡›I 2c Minister of State 2bd429I K 2}@2=K L,o K 2:P q ;2: [ 2`š1 23d2) ™,h,H V . V w m / . V JL J qp J 1 ac 7KB 2c @},o ¡ 2729^2* F I Adefer 2vŸ47Œ 2:A 2<42*w 42a9IIIK 29 29 2^@Ž42•”,o t 4 J J £Io r H V 22bd42:fB 2question 2`I o 42@ lIndustries Division 29II1 2u429 ¢ ^2:9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H … . … . p A p J V J a: a: fB 2`I hO 2272F˘:fB request 2c 2vŽ42T *w 422:fB 2`I hO 22a 9I LK questions 29I o 2: A Production V V M … V . W Jqp S[ V / Jh[ 22a:fB 2v@,o 2= genuine 22)I o 29I 2:“I 29I ]42•”• t 42} •hI I V JV H J r H V 9IILKK 2:\F ^2: F 2), hH @– 292)229, I o L 23d2questions 2d^2:9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H she will not be coming. V M … V §,p M S[ V / Jh[ 2˘:fB 2= 2@2‡l,H @ – 2¦] q ’i 2}@2`422K L Y I o :“I 29I ]42•”• t 42} •hI I r M r V a9IJo @51 ‰ 2vŽ4T ! 2‡@,H – 2¦] q ’i 2}@2=2K L Y ,-:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H r V V A V J1 r TH V M V J H … … … J [ 2c 2ªŽ42vŽ42*, T w 4 ! 9I }•hI 2v@, h,H 2 :¦]q’i 29I © 2}@2]K L Y I h [ (2 ^*/ @hI/ b )2¨o *AI 2} •hI h V V . • S / A V ¬©i J £Io … 2)• 2:fB 2= 52=¡ T 4272cF 2( )< 2«I hx 2? 2either the members are absent,29I ¢ ^2*T/ 2‡ G x V r . / V Jqp ž m JL … r 29I ^2*A 2condone 27A 2<7 x 47 Œ 2b@TQ 2<42vŽ42*T w 422a9 I 2=K 2:fB 2c72AZ}® d^2bd429I K 2:F *A 2v@¯IN/ @23d, o . … V 2±sIo ^2vŽ42T there will be no Question Hour.272:F [ 2 ),Q d2cA 2 absence 2c2}A •© J1 2)• 2: w
2 collective 2)o 2 There will be no question left for answering today. 2a9 IJ• I V JL … J 1 @Io 2bd42He should answer. a9I,K 2^7H 72‡ i , H @– 2}•© 2bd42:fB 2responsibility if he cannot answer then he should say, take time from you sir. V V V shx . o V r H V 2)• 2:fB 2request 2`429I o I 2:fB 2@@52‡Io 1 ‰ [ b^2: F 2vŽ4T ! ‡@, H – 2¨*2A:9IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H V . ¡ V 929IIJLK J q p 2available 2‡sš+ 2²*I / bd2bd42Minister is abroad so question relating to Industries Division and Production Division are deferred for next rota day. Next question, Begum Najma Hameed Sahiba . That is a question which is deferred already. Questions No. 36 and 37 both were in her name, they are also deferred. Next question, Mrs. Nuzhat Sadiq Sahiba . 38. *Senator Nuzhat Sadiq: Will the Minister for Privatization be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that some special concessions have been extended to KESC after its privatization, if so, the details and justification thereof; and (b) the steps being taken by the Government to streamline the affairs of KESC, as per terms and conditions upon which it was privatized? Mr. Ghous Bux Khan Maher: (a) The privatization of KESC took place in November 2005. Subsequently, Ministry of Water and Power signed an Amendment Agreement with KESC on April 13, 2009. Therefore, the Ministry of Water and Power would be in a position to answer the question regarding special concessions extended to KESC after privatization. (b) This does not fall under the purview of Privatization Commission. The relevant ministry to answer the question is Ministry of Water & Power. The National Electric Power Regulatory Authority
3 (NEPRA) as regulator can also provide details of steps taken to stream line the affairs of KESC as per terms and conditions upon which it was privatized. Mr. Chairman: Mrs. Nuzhat Sadiq Sahiba , not present. Next question, Begum Najma Hameed Sahiba , not present. Next question, Nuzhat Sadiq Sahiba . 40. *Senator Nuzhat Sadiq: Will the Minister far Commerce be pleased to state: (a) the details of the industries given export freight subsidy; and (b) whether there is any proposal under consideration of the Government to provide subsidy to the remaining industries also? Makhdoom Muhammad Amin Fahim: (a) Cabinet Division under Strategic Trade Policy Framework 2009-12 approved following types of freight subsidies:ê i. Inland freight subsidy for the exporters of cement, light engineering, leather garments, furniture, soda ash, hydrogen peroxide, caustic soda, sanitary wares including tiles, finished marble/granite/onyx products. ii. Freight subsidy at 25% on air shipments of live seafood products. iii. Support on export of processed food by reimbursing R&D cost at 6% of the exports. Detail is as under:ê Inland Freight Subsidy: êThe scheme was offered to cement sector at 35% and other sectors at 50% of inland cost of the exports made through land route between March 23, 2010 to June, 2010. However, the
4 claims have not been settled due to financial constraints. Freight Subsidy on Live seafood: êThe initiative was offered to all by air shipments of live seafood from 1st September, 2009. An amount of Rs. 510.249 million has been disbursed to the exporters under this scheme. Support on export of processed food:ê The subsidy was for all the shipments of Processed food from 1st August, 2009. However, the claims are pending for settlement due to financial constraints. (b) No such proposal is under consideration of Ministry of Commerce. Mr. Chairman: Nuzhat Sadiq Sahiba not present. Next question, Mr. Talha Mehmood Sahib . 41. *Senator Muhammad Talha Mahmood: Will the Minister for Foreign Affairs be pleased to state: (a) the number of persons working in Pakistan embassy/ mission in China; and (b) whether there is any proposal under consideration of the Government to reduce the number of those employees, if so, its details? Ms. Hina Rabbani Khar: (a) There are five Pakistani Missions presently operating in China, and these are (i) Embassy of Pakistan, Beijing and four Consulate Generals operating under Pakistan Embassy Beijing which are (ii) Shanghai, (iii) Chengdu, (iv) Guangzhou and (V) Hong Kong The total number of Pak-based employees of this Ministry (Diplomatic wing) working in the above mentioned five Missions are as under:ê
5 èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè S.No Mission No. of Persons èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè 1. Embassy of Pakistan, Beijing 19 2. Consulate General of Pakistan, Shanghai 2 3. Consulate General of Pakistan, Chengdu 4 4. Consulate General of Pakistan, Guangzhou 4 5. Consulate General of Pakistan, Hong Kong 3 èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè Total: 32 èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè (b) The Ministry has no proposal under consideration concerning reduction of these employees as the Missions have already bare Minimum strength. Mr. Chairman: Mr. Talha Mehmood Sahib not present. Next question, Mr. Talha Mahmood Sahib . 42. *Senator Muhammad Talha Mahmood: Will the Minister for Commerce be pleased to state: (a) the details of cases of corruption, misappropriation and fraud surfaced in the Ministry of Commerce, its attached departments, subordinate offices and corporations during the last three years; and (b) the names and designations of the persons found involved in the said cases and action taken against them? Makhdoom Muhammad Amin Fahim: (a) Directorate General of Trade Organization, Trade Development Authority of Pakistan, Pakistan Institute of Trade & Development, Pakistan Re- Insurance Company Limited have intimated NIL report in the matter.
6 Whereas, the details of corruption cases in Ministry of Commerce, Trading Corporation of Pakistan, Pakistan Tobacco Board, National Tariff Commission, State Life Insurance Corporation of Pakistan and National Insurance Company Limited and are as under: MINISTRY OF COMMERCE
One corruption case regarding issuance of fake letters/certificates is pending against Mr. Noor Hassan, Assistant, Ministry of Commerce, Islamabad. Ms. Azra Jamali, Joint Secretary, Ministry of Commerce has been nominated as Inquiry Officer in the case. The official is suspended from his duties. TRADING CORPORATION OF PAKISTAN The FIA has been investigating corruption cases in Wheat Operation 2008-09 and lodged FIR against the officers accused. The details may be seen at Annex-I. PAKISTAN TOBACCO BOARD An amount of Rs. 9.097 Million was embezzled during the year 2006, 2007 and 2008, which was detected in November, 2008. The case was reported to NAB on 15-12-2008 and presently under trial in the NAB Court Peshawar. The details of the case may be seen at Annex-II. NATIONAL TARIFF COMMISSION Brief facts of the case is that during audit of the National Tariff Commissionãs account for F.Y. 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08 and F.Y. 2008-09 by the Office of Director General Federal Audit, Islamabad, embezzlement of Rs. 22.5 Million through forgery and criminal mal-practices in the Finance and Accounts Section of the Commission was detected. The details of the cases may be seen at Annex-III.
7 STATE LIFE INSURANCE CORPORATION OF PAKISTAN é The cases of fraud/corruption/misappropriation finalized are twenty-one (21). é Cases under process are five (5). NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY LIMITED é Total number of cases for fraudulent property purchase/ investment were five (5) é Audit paras on corruption, misappropriation since 2009 were thirty-three (33). (b) The names and designations of the persons involved in corruption cases are as under: MINISTRY OF COMMERCE Mr. Noor Hassan, Assistant, Ministry of Commerce, Islamabad was found involved in the corruption case regarding issuance of fake letter/certificate. Ms. Azra Jamali, Joint Secretary, Ministry of Commerce has been nominated as Inquiry Officer in the case. The official is suspended from his duties. TRADING CORPORATION OF PAKISTAN
FIRs against the following officers of TCP, allegedly involved in corruption, have been lodged by FIA investigating the cases: i. Mr. Abdul Malik, Ex-Chairman, TCP (BS-21) (now retired). ii. Mr. Muhammad Saeed, S/o Ali Gohar Khan, Ex- Chairman, TCP (BS-21). `iii. Mr. Manzoor Ahmed Bhatt, Director Finance (BS-20). iv. Syed Sibte Momin, Director Commercial (Now retired). v. Dr. Yousuf Junaid, Director Commercial (BS-20). vi. Mr. Munawar Akhtar Islam, Director Commercial (BS- 20).
8 vii. Mr. Ziauddin, Assistant Manager/Incharge Cotton procurement, TCP. viii. Mr. Muhammad Ramzan, Deputy Manager, TCP. ix. Mr. Abdul Waheed Deputy Manager (Regular), TCP. x. Mr. Ahsan Ali Abro, Ex-Deputy Manager, TCP. xi. Mr. Muhammad Aasmin, Assistant Manager The details may be seen at Annex-I. PAKISTAN TOBACCO BOARD
The following two main accused in the embezzlement case worth Rs. 9.097 million in November 2008 have been suspended and charge sheeted: 1. Mr. Aleem Mehmood, Cashier, PTB (under suspension). 2. Mr. Sardar Hussain, Deputy Secretary (Admn)/Deputy Director (Marketing) (under suspension).The details may be seen at Annex-II. NATIONAL TARIFF COMMISSION
List of officers/officials of National Tariff Commission against whom corruption cases surfaced during the last three years is under: 1. Mr. Maqsood-ul-Hassan, Deputy Director (He worked as DDO from 03-06-2004 to 14-09-2004) 2. Raja Mahmood-ul-Hassan, Accounts Officer (Deputationist) (He is a substantive employee of AGPR, Islamabad) 3. Mr. Muhammad Zubair, Assistant /Cashier 4. Mr. Idrees Ahmed, Assistant 5. Mr. Sajjad Anwar, Stenographer 6. Mr. Ghulam Sarwar,Naib Qasid The complete detail can be seen at Annex-III STATE LIFE INSURANCE CORPORATION OF PAKISTAN
9 Total sixty (60) persons were found involved in various cases since 2008. Details of cases and actions against them are at Annex-IV NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY LIMITED
Total ten (10) persons were found involved in various cases since 2009. Details of cases and actions against them are at Annex-V. (Annexures have been placed on the Table of the House as well as Library) Mr. Chairman: Mr. Talha Mehmood Sahib not present. Next question, Col. ° Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi Sahib . 43. *Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Will the Minister for Textile Industry be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that a large number of power looms/seizing sectors in the country have been closed down during the last two years; and (b) if so, the total number of employees of said sector who have been rendered jobless? Mahkhdoom Shahabuddin: (a) The power looms Industry has been adversely affected by the economic crisis in the country. During last two years, about 40,000 power looms of different size i.e. 44", 52", 114" and 120" have been converted into scrap due to different problems like energy crisis, hike in prices of electricity, non-availability of raw materials, heavy losses in business and increase in cost of production. Whereas, about 10,000 power looms are closed partially due to financial losses, excessive increase in rates of electricity, fuel price adjustment changes and sales tax etc. (b) Although exact numbers are not reported, it is estimated about 30,000 labourers i.e. weavers, winders, munshi and
10 masters have become jobless directly and the employment of about 100,000 people has been affected indirectly related to the power loom/sizing sector. Mr. Chairman: Any supplementary? Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Sir, I draw the attention of the honourable Minister . 240 2)• 2 It is a very truthful answer 2a<7KB 2@o *A 2 appreciate 227A 2 answer 2:A 2<42)V • p p r V V 2cA 2bad economic policy 2˘:[ 2)d2c2<4*,Q A,V Ò 2: A 2=¬,Ó, 29IJKL 2= S w 272]KB h, / 2power looms 2b4} K L V 2b4}K L 2 10 2a:[ 2)d2c2,Q A lack of investment bd42:[ 2),Q d2cA 2 economic crisis ˘:[ 2)d,Q V V Ô . r V Ô V r 2b42? 27F 2:F 7K B 23}I •Õ d2financial losses 272<7ANIIJTh‘ 2)™o 7 N A 292=IJLK Sw 272K B looms close down r r J J V Ô 2˘9I LK 2:Nw 2: N A 2 retrenched 2)• 729,IH LK 2 Government figures 2)I olabourers b4}K L 2 30 2? V V r V . Jqp Ô x Ô p VAV HJ L Sw ¬ H 2:fB 2|@ Q2vb7Ö 2)2*422˘:fI o wB 29II 2±TÒ 2:\ NAF 2: 2: ”¢ 272<7 AÒT , 2u@2:To A 292˘9,,K 2= 2=TQ 2<@*72cI o A F 29 ..… V V … V realistic 27AF 2vŽ42729^2*TTI/ A 2¨^2vŽ427,o AF 2u42* w 4272:fB 2cA 2 admit 2^72:HF 2‡@, H – 2}•© J1 2)7• , H V r J•-IV . ×Nz w 1 2<@q,- 2a9I 2±sIo ^2=4*2bd42)474*T A• F, H 72˘<@ w hoP1 2˘^@Ž42¨, 2ac 2:F @, Q 2¨2picture on the ground and not only that the loss to the 29IJLK 2hand looms industries 2¦b@+Kž 2<@ q - . , J m . §p J J £Io 2a9I LK 2c *A 2 looms role play 2)2‡I o †,p 2=, 29I 1 2 export 2Zb@+KIž 2˘9¢ ^2vŽ42*T w 42 nation . V V . J1 … V I donãt know what 272a:fFBB 2@b272‡KLKKH d529‰ I 2@I h / ^2¦b724}T FBT •• 247 2@h,/ 2:[ 2 looms 2¦b@ +Kž . . W in 272@b2@F KL h PTQ 2ª5n 2= 42*w 42steps the honourable Minister is taking to stop this. another six months there will be no textile industry and hand loom r . ž V . ¡ . to 29IJLK 2:fB b2: x 2steps 2@hA 23d2)• 29IJo 2@ h ,/29IJ+K 2‡@, H – 2*bd2•}I/ •Ó 272Findustry in Pakistan. . I land and 2:fB 2c*2m A exist 2)• 7,H 2 improve the pathetic and terrible situation M V J r H V . a9}I 1 •hI T 2v@, h,H 2)*I o st 2a±@ p t 2:A 2loom industry Mr. Chairman: Minister for Textile Industry. Makhdoom Shahabuddin (Minister for Textile Industry): Thank you sir. Sir, I have no intentions of painting a picture which is not true and which is not correct. Yes, I do understand there are
11 our problems and if the power looms are shutting down, the entire shutting down should not be attributed to the Government policy. There could be entrepreneurial failure also, the people who just canãt calculate things properly. Now this dismal picture that has been painted, sir, the problem is that there is no law which mandates a unit to give us the figures. All these are conjectures, whatever we have said over here, the textile Commissionerãs office says this, it based on estimates. It is not really true because there is no method of arriving at such conclusions. So sir, we started of with, we are planning a law whereby mandated, it will be mandatory for a unit to submit all the estimates. Only then we will be able to form a correct proper opinion. Now, as far the honourable member is concerned about what steps are taken to improve the situation, all I can do is go and talk to the relevant and concerned Minister as to what is going to happen about the power failures. I assure you sir and it has been assured to me also, that steps are being taken and hopefully within one or two months, things are certainly going to be different. Now one of the fact which is contributing to this power failure is lack of hydel power, well there is very limited hydel power. Now there is shortage of water. The moment we have enough water, there certainly will be an improvement, I assure the honourable member sir. Mr. Chairman: There is no other supplementary. Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: I have a second supplementary sir. Mr. Chairman: Yes, Col. ° Tahir Hussain Mashhadi.
12 Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Thank you very much sir. Sir, actually the honourable Minister is a very sophisticated, very soft spoken and very respected Minister but no amount of honey and sugar can quote the pathetic situation which exists. The honourable Minister has tried to give the impression that there are other reasons. Sir, I will read from his answers given by his department. If I may be allowed, the power looms industries have been affected by economic crisis in the country No. 1. During the last two years, about 40,000 power looms of different sizes have been converted into scrap due to different problems like energy crisis, hike in prices of electricity, non-availability of raw materials, heavy losses in business and increase in cost of production. Now these are all the responsibilities of the Ministry and the Government, nothing to do with the thing the entrepreneurs, whereas 10,000 power looms are partially closed due to financial losses. This probably you can blame on to the entrepreneurs but the 40,000 that they admit, I say there are far more than 40,000 and we just canãt say that the honourable Minister has solved the problems by talking to the Energy Minister, the whole of Pakistan has been talking to the Energy Minister for Water and Power for the last 4 years and the electricity is not coming. We are living in a state of darkness for the last 4 years and the situation is getting worst and worst. I would like to know what concrete steps the honourable Minister is going to take? This 30,000 is just a figure that the Government has given, there is 100,000 people who have been affected by closure of these hand looms. They are out of jobs, they have nothing, no future, they have no money to feed the children,
13 they cannot put one morsel of bread into hungry mouth of there children. Sir, that is the pathetic condition. I am not saying that we are painting a gloomy picture. The picture is so black that I have no paint to blacken it anymore. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman: Minister for Textile Industry. Makhdoom Shahabuddin: Sir, I truly appreciate the concern shown by the honourable Senator. I do understand sir. The steps to be taken are steps which do not concern with my Ministry, Textile Ministry. We can just do, as far as facilitation of textile industry is concerned sir, we can do it only where making a good policy and encouraging them and we are nobody, at least the textile industry is no Ministry to be responsible for power failure. All I can do is, talk to my colleague over there and I have been talking and he is doing his honest best. I can assure the honourable Senator that the Minister concerned is doing his honest best to solve the situation and the Government is certainly very very concerned about this situation. I asked, who has written this answer and perhaps you know that it will be of interest to this august House that somebody sitting over there in the Textile Commissionerãs Office, a raw, immature and young man sitting over there, I am told, he has done it. So, I am sorry, he has painted a very dismal picture of the situation. Situation is not all that bad. I do understand, I do say, yes, it is a situation where you feel concerned and the honourable Senator justifiably be concerned. So my sympathies. Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Ilyas Bilour sahib. Senator Ilyas Ahmad Bilour: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman! Let me tell the honourable Minister for Textile that the total industry including textile industry is collapsed at present because the way the load shedding is going on. The Government is
14 borrowing billions of rupees from private banks. Why donãt you pay half of that as a circular debt and relieving their expenditure because Pakistan has got much more than the capacity which we have got in a pipeline. If the installed capacity of power generation is run, there will be no load shedding. Now industries in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and industries in Lahore are not functioning. I request the honourable Minister to read todayãs DAWN, the press statement of the Lahore Chamber of Commerce and Industries, it was very bleak picture. I canãt tell anything because we are your coalition partners. Tomorrow we have to go on and we will have to pay for your sins. People will not vote for us because of your sins because you are spending money unnecessarily, you are borrowing unnecessarilyÉÉ Mr. Chairman: Bilour sahib, this is Question Hour. Kindly confine yourself to the question. Senator Ilyas Ahmed Bilour: Sir, I am talking about the industries. The honourable Minister said that let them go to the Commissioner. Will the Commissioner be able to do with this electricity shortage? Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Would you respond to this? Makhdoom Shahabuddin: Sir, the honourable Senator was kind enough in expressing his concern as far as our sinful activities are concerned. I donãt know why he said that our all activities are sinful and he is going to pay for our sins. No, no, certainly not. He is not going to pay for our sins. God forbid, if they have committed sins then they are going to pay for their own sins. So, I donãt think, they will be held responsible if the Government has been negligent, if at all, Government has been negligent anywhere. So, I think I will request the honourable
15 Member not to lose heart in his friends, in his colleagues and he should trust us and hopefully, in the very near future, he will be more than satisfied. Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Next question, Muhammad Talha Mehmood sahib . 45. *Senator Muhammad Talha Mahmood: Will the Minister for Privatization be pleased to state the names and designation of the officers in BPS-17 and above in the Ministry, its attached departments and subordinate offices who themselves or their spouses hold dual nationality
indicating also the , names of the countries of their nationality? Mr. Ghous Bux Khan Maher: The Spouse of Mr. Noor Ahmed, Director General (PC 20/BS-20) Privatization Commission, a corporate body of Ministry of Privatization, holds dual nationality of United States of America (USA). Mr. Chairman: He is not present. Next question, Col. ° Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi sahib .
Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Sir, the honourable Minister for Production is not present and according to your ruling, sir,ÉÉ Mr. Chairman: Yes, that has been deferred now. Next question, Mr. Hamza. 47. *Senator Hamza: Will the Minister for Commerce be pleased to state: (a) the amount of foreign exchange spent on import of fertilizers since June, 2011; and
16 (b) the names of the agencies through which the said fertilizers were distributed/sold? Makhdoom Muhammad Amin Fahim: (a) A total amount of US$ 695.191 million has been spent by the Trading Corporation of Pakistan (TCP) on import of fertilizers since June, 2011. Details are as follow:ê (i) US$ 623.495 million in cash. (ii) US$ 71.696 million in loan from Saudi Fund for Development (SFD). (b) The imported fertilizers were distributed/sold through National Fertilizer Marketing Limited (NFML), an institution working under the Umbrella of Ministry of Industries. Mr. Chairman: He is also not present. Next question, Mrs. Muddassir Sehar Kamran. 48. *Senator Muddassir Sehar Kamran: Will the Minister for Foreign Affairs be pleased to state: (a) the number of Pakistani prisoners in the jails of Saudi Arabia with jail-wise and gender-wise break up; (b) the number of said prisoners who are in prisons for more than last 5, 10 and 15 years separately; and (c) the number of said prisoners who are in jails without being sentenced by the competent courts so far? Ms. Hina Rabbani Khar: (a) The number of Pakistani prisoners in jails of Saudi Arabia with jail-wise and gender-wise breakup is as under: ______Name of Jail Male Female èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè Al-Malaz Jail, Riyadh 342 è
17 Al-Hair Jail, Riyadh 206 è Dammam Jail 75 è Al-Ahsa Jail 78 è Tabuk Jail 9 è Hail Jail 12 Buraidah Jail 19 Northern border Jail 1 è Khafji Jail 3 è Hafar Al-Batin Jail 2 è Al-Kharj Jail 8 è Al-Qawayya Jail 5 è Ad-Dawadmi Jail 5 è Qateef Jail 2 è Jubail Jail 7 è Al-Jouf Jail 3 è Bariman Jail Jeddah 480 5 General Jail Madinah 104 4 Makkah Jails(General+Islahiya) 260 16 General Jail Najran 4 è General Jail Qunfida 5 è General Jail Al-Taif 15 è General Jail Al-baha 6 è èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè Total: 1651 25
èèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèèè (b) The number of Pakistani prisoners who are in prisons for more than 5, 10, and 15 years is as under: Period of Detention No of Prisoners More than 5 years 168 More than 10 years 2
18 More than 15 years 5 (c) Our Mission has requested the Saudi authorities to provide information about the prisoners who are in jails without being sentenced. Their reply is still awaited. Mr. Chairman: Any supplementary question? Yes please. Senator Muddassir Sehar Kamran: Sir, looking at the data given by the Ministry, . V JL J 1AV J o J1V . w V - J 1 2)™,h,H 29IIIK 29 2<7PIh,H 2c2v52¦^7, Ý › [ 229 4722 H 25 29II 2<42)• 2:fB 2@IIhohw 2@@, / 2)2)II o• 2c 2<7@2@KBT Qh O T 72)29T F o V V ’A FJV £ tJ. p ..V J V H 22sentence 2= 2}I •{, 27,IIIH 29LKK 2€723d2: x[ 2<72) A • 2= 2@h,/ 29 q 2)2vb4bd2bd429I o L 2v4}Þ 2^522¡ 1651 V . A . w V X J J J 2c2:\NJ• 2: [ 2‡7i sQ 2¦^7 › [ 22data 2)2)I o • 2c 2<7@KBTQo 2@*A 2b@ qß 42@ l 2u7 GF z 429III1 272*2u42a9 T / LK 29 1 2<7 PI h ,H 2: A V r 2Zb@Kž 2)• 2:\fNB @2@72:KB [P 2:q ;2u@2:p A 2<42:fV B 22Embassy or Consulate 2¦b@K,ž 27H 2*„ ^42:F @ ,p +T QoV T o +V , Ó V • V VV... 2)• 2:fB 2)2|472= o Œ S‘ 24}I •à 2a9IJLK 2: A 22sentence 22}I •{ ,F 2:NJ• 2: [ 29IIIJ1 2<42bd429V JK L 29 J 1 2<7PIh,H 2c@m hGA @2: o N J • r I r T p V J™t . J L . m x A V ž 2?4*,H 2:A 2<42)• 29II 2”2@TQ hT/ 2)2@2˚9I o I o K 2:f B b2* A2v@4]42c72:\1 á A N 2: A 22release 2c 2<7w 72<42? x K 2@IhA V r V V ˆ S / VV . m JL . A 24}® 2=@2=,oT 42)2)I o • 2<@II hi b^2:A 2v5, Ý 2¦^7›[K 2bd42<@ ho{©h GA @2:fT B 23]@KL i 2c72@ AIF 42@ A 2bd429I 2: A 2‡INâ 728 F . V V Jt JV . V J • ˚9III™ 2*2¦b729ATF 1 2<@hGA @29T o o 47 Hnã 2*2b72=T / 7 H Mr. Chairman: Yes, Minister concerned. V V U ‰ SÒ• V M V ¡ 22understanding 2¦b@+K,ž 27H 2|@ Ó 42=2)• 2@@52“I o1 ‰ I 22:F 2<7†p 42 :9I/ ]42v@•, qW 2•d] Ó JL ˘29IK,K 2Z]@KL {i 2Zb@ +ž 27H 2@2:fI o B there are about 34 countries, where we are still negotiating, an understanding whereby a Pakistani national, if he is sentenced to some prison in Saudi Arabia, out of these 34 countries, would come ultimately in Pakistan and serve his rest of the sentence over here and Saudi Arabia is one of those countries, sir, we have already concluded with four countries where offenders can come to Pakistan and they serve the remaining sentence and UK, UAE, Sri Lanka and Thailand are included. So, Saudi Arab falls in that list of 34 countries and we are negotiating. Hopefully, sir, it will be done and
19 let me tell you that over here I have asked the Foreign Office also and they say when it comes to females, Saudis are particularly very lenient and sir, mostly these ladies have overstayed there and hopefully, insha Allah they will be back very soon. Mr. Chairman: Tahir Hussain Mashhadi sahib. Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Thank you Mr. Chairman! Sir, I would like to request the honourable Minister, although he is answering on behalf of the honourable Foreign Minister. You see, Saudi Arab has got its own legal system and it is very difficult to get help to any inmate because of their system but the Embassy in Saudi Arab has been notorious in the past for showing no concern and not providing any type of assistance whatsoever to the Pakistani prisoners there. In the last two years, the Interior Committee of the Senate did a remarkably good job, we even managed to get some people repatriated from Saudi Jails and we also got our Embassy moving about some other cases. But I would like to ask about the last paragraph i.e. äcã paragraph of the answer. The honourable Minister has said that our Mission has requested the Saudi authorities to provide information about the prisoners who are in jails without being sentenced. The reply is still awaited. Sir, this reply was awaited two years ago. It was awaited five and a half years ago when this similar question was asked. Would the honourable Minister let me know when and what date did they ask lately, what is the latest, that our Embassy in Saudi Arab asked the authorities to provide the information that the honourable Member has requested. Thank you. Mr. Chairman: Minister for Foreign Affairs.
20 Makhdoom Shahabuddin: Thank you. Mr. Chairman! as far as the Saudi Embassy is concerned, I will take it up and the honourable Member says that they are notorious in turning a deaf ear to the Pakistani people who go over there for seeking assistance over there. I will just broach it with the honourable Foreign Minister and the honourable Senator has already said that they have their laws and they have a peculiar style of their own and we have been asking them and they take their time and obviously you canãt interfere into their internal affairs. All you can do is, you just go on requesting and requesting and requesting and this is what the Foreign Office is doing, sir. For example, sir, they say that if an SHO locks up somebody and an SSP writes to him that OK release him but SSP canãt do that. It is that particular SHO who will take an action over there. So, they have their own style. Mr. Chairman: Mrs. Muddassir Sehar Kamran sahiba . . M V V p w J V V W … J [ 2@h†Ô 2)272:I o F Pq ;2: [ 2‡2, [˘c 2 21 V r V r V a2),Q b@Q 2:F 4*2*bd2=,/I / ,- 2:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V M V )• 2:fB 2ë52=Ý ~Ip 29IJ1 2: P ©Pt 2u42:9V I/ ]• 42v@, qW2•d] Ó¡ let the Honourable Minister come and I will just take it up this with her. I will certainly take it up with her. I will also request her to have this procedure expedited. I am sure the honourable Senator wants this to be done expeditiously. So I will just make sure that she takes cognizance of this delay that has occurred and I quite see the points of the honourable Senator that they should be taken up in a very zealous way. Thank you. Mr. Chairman: The Question Hour is being over. We take up the leave applications. Leave of Absence . V V M o V V A. i m m V V ¡ V V r H V 2¨I *T/ 4230 2)b72*2@Q iT/ hh,/ 2c 2v@I z d}Þ 2c4^22‡,H @ – 2c4}I •t 2<@2] Qo + R 2@Ÿ72 i :9IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H V V . V M . V p . 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DW 2Zb@+Kž 2<@ q Ip 2*28 T/, 2:fB 2•4*d*24*2‡ w// T , †,p 2`42I o BISP 2a= 29I q 2|@ hi2c 2u429I 1 2= @2<71KB 2@ h O,R V . V . . ¡ VVJo shx J L / . 2:fB b2*A 2 appreciate 2€723^@b2‡xIo †,p 272•4* Aw// d*2u42*2b7TT nö 2=47Ÿ429II, 29I 29 K 2:F *2] A IhïN 2‡ [ d^ V . V JL Q… V J 1 JLS†Ô J L §’p IF p W . J L 2<@q,-T 2˘29I,IK 2:fB b2¨T 2•4*w d*2Z*2] /, / hTH 27H 29 2@I h / ^2)• 29I K2= 27,IIH 29 K 2=, 2= 42<@IhGJ,ÓI 42= 2‡†, p 2bd429 K V V JL 2:fB 2@b2@2@KL, QI h A 2address 27A 2<4 29I K 22:fB b23 b under the poverty line 27,HA 227 2<7 wx 72g , I/5Ý 2* T/ V … . M V J … . F [ H … J 29I o 72]*2a2<72@IFIo /K B hOÔ b2ó P { 2:[N 2:> › 28, 23d”2: ç A 2u42bd42:f B 2•4*d*24*2`4 w//T , I o 2@ l 2u429I 1 2BISP 2)I o … V . V . . DW V 2: [ 2‡, [ 29IIIJ1 2u429 J LK 2:\NNFA 2•@2Z*2:l,/ / 42<@ q,- 2: 2‡7 i sQK 2u42)• 2<72@ B h O, R 29 J 1 2˘2: [[ 2 25 V V øh,H V s hx ..’ö Ý A … § p 2= 2u429I, 2@¢LQhp 2@b2@2@KIK,,IIA 24]IIhT/ 2|7H @2@2? 1l 2‡ ,INÒ 2`42:o [ 2_52cn 2@] o¢LQl h i 2a2@ p 2@b2@ 2@db2=, 2: [ 2: F *2A V . . p 2729F IJ1 2a2:fB 2@hA 23%2@o 22% 2)• 29IJLK 2:N†Ô 2€72:fx B 2@hA 2grow 2: F economy 2¦b@+KIž 2*w 42=§, 29J1 2|7H @ 1 I I . V I … … . Vs x §p m M J F . 2v]*272‡7Io A Ai sQK 2u429Ih 2= 2:\fNB @2c72TQ B growth minus 2¦b@+KIž 2]@Io t 291 2|7H @2:\ 1 G 42)• 2<72@K B h†Ô . V V . V ’IF J p V J• A ¬ • V 2:A 2|@2vb7QhÖ 2`@o O,p 2= 42)• 29I,¢ 22}ƒI @272c2‡@T o– H, H 2¦b4^bb2=ç 2—Ö Ž42*2b72=T / nã 7H 2:\fN B @2@T Qh I/ ^ I V p ÔV Ô p V positive 2cA 2 Economy ˘:fB 29IJq 2 minus growth 2?b42?2cA 2 economy 2¦b@+Kž 2=§, 2b]4o . r p p ãíF .. ž 2Zb@+Kž 2=§,, 2*2u42˘:fT/B 2@ hw 2Ž42= § 2)š×INz 2= ¬Ih 2ªŽ42)2:f, • B 2@72u7 o KKB G z 42‡†, p 29IJ+K a:f B 2c72m B growth V r I … J1p ..V V shx / .. 22}@2ªŽ42‡@K L,,,o–, , H 2} •© 2?4*2)T/• 2:fB 2)2v@2ù@2u7I o ooG z 429I 2: w 29*2v@2‡I A ot[ d^2Zb@ 2 ‡ † ,p V V p F r 23d2:fB 29IJq 2pleasure trip 2@l 22<423d22*2b7V TT/n 2=SIJéI 2bd429I J LK 2:Nw 2*2Zbd^2: / A 2United Kingdom . V VVr . V 2}•q ,p 272=7@42c2`2u42˘2:\ A¡ F lA š1NAFx 2: 2: *2¨2¨@AQ o © i 2: A 2`2u42:\ š 1 NAF x 2: 2: *2‡]2c A i Q A 2` š 12u4 . . V BV’ ö ,H /VVshx JLK NFB /¡ J , o NAF x A 2)• 2:f 2@IIhoh1lw 2@@, / 2|7H @2@2?. 28 2*2<@T qI p 29I 29II 2:f b2: @2*2 26 . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) M r V Let him conclude.2˘@k 2:P1 2floor 27A 2vŽ4T ! 2‡, H @– 23@ t 2:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V V V … V A +£1 R¡ . . R D W J 1 Sâ Jh[ aaa aaa 2@2:lF *2¨ 2:> O 2v@2¦}, oI •à 2)2<72@• KB h O, 292I := 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) . V V Ô M M p … E r V a29IJ¢ b2—}I F ƒF 2vŽ42˘22‡T , H @– 23@ t 2a 29IJq 22:[ 2: NJ¢ 2: w Ž42:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V r V V … V V A Jqp . V m J 1 . J1 Sâ Jh[ 2<42@IhLA 2a@b2*29KKII 2v@2ô, oPç 2c729A 2a<72@b2@K B Lh , / 2 facts 27A 2vŽ429T I 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I V VVVV r V øoJqp ‰ V w J q p A J q p 2@IIIh1{A 2˘= @29III 2=@i 2:FN 2<772<42@wx h A 2: 29 23]2€72)2@,Q xI o h A 2˘:\ N 29 2Z]@K L { i 2: F 2<7 wx7 V … V V Jq1Óp J¡ SJ, o J 1h ,H aaa 9III, 29 22¨ 2bd}2:® A 2v52¦^7, Ý ›[ 2bd42: O \ 29 2b@q,- 2: [ 2¨I 2)2^7d@2:I o H, o AF 2: 72K B convict )I o . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) ¯x M V J r H V Let him conclude a2@k 2:P1 2b7Pñ 2¨ @27, o A 2vŽ42˘2‡T , H @ –t 23@ 2:9I 1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) . M V V V . V . RDW J1 V J1 r TH V Sâ … J [ 2:F @¢Ô ^22‡[ 4^*2•]27,/ ç ,IH 2)db2@I o l 2<42) • 2<72@K B h O, 29 ! 9I }•hI 2v@, h,H 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI Ih aa aa aa29 IJLK w MMJ• … V V J r H V aa2a2c 2:P1 2¦b@27,oA 2vŽ42‡TT,,H @ –t 23@ a29I 2û*2*db2vŽ42‡T/ x H @ –t 23@ 2:9I 1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H V M V V V V … V V ¬h‘W hGIJo Sâ Jh[ aaaaa2b]42:o A 2|@2:KL A 2=, 42¨ 2)2^7I o H 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) M . J¢Ô F w M V J r H V aaa9I b2—}I F ƒ 2Please a2c 2:P1 2¦b@27,oA 2vŽ42‡T , H @ – 23@ t 2:9I 1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H … V r V V … V J1 p / Sâ Jh[ 2@IhA 2˘2:[ 2: x 472:H A 2‡@, H – 2} •© 2?4*2˘2:T [ 2: x 472:H A 2‡@,H – 2b] – 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I ...r ..V . V J1V F1Lo JJJA RW JJJJ 1Lqop 272vŽ42729AFBT IIIIIIII 2a<72@b2*2<@K KLhéAI ,/ 2ó@H 2729 F 2a29KK 2c 29 @2=,, oT 272: F F 29 2a29 2: F *29 A 29 @2@ ohI A . ž V . ˚ ˚ 2:fB 2=K b272—KKBI N P¯F 2<7I NAA 27 2<42: [ 2u42<72@b2@ B KL h ,/ 2facts . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) ö ¯x V J r H V ˘@2:kP1 2ü72¨i @272vŽ42, o A T :9I 1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H let him conclude, please let him conclude. 27 V … V V V … V Jqp . V . . A mS/ A V J 1 Sâ Jh[ 29I 42)• @2a<72@b23@oKB KI LQohoT 2@2@,/ 2v@2`42c, o 2cb@2=T oT 42c 2<42<@ q Ip 29I 22:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I V V . V ¡ X ¡ .D W ž V X V ›i V J1 r TH V V 2=@ìF 2]Ih,Ò 2a2:fB 2@@2@ oQ¢hl, , R 22|@I H 22?2@2<42*2b72¦}@27K T/ nK L Yo, H 2•@2}, •h 2`4I o ! 29I }•hI 2v@, h,H 2˘2723b4]4KB o V V V V V V ~Ô . J1 ¡ Rp V shx ~Ô J qp … § ,SA . aaa2= 2v@2)22:,o I o F 2<7†p 429I 2<7 P æÒ 2=, 29I 2= 29I 2*22^b@T/ ¯IF b2= 2v@2)2:, oI o F 2<7†p 42˘2‡, H @ – . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) … V M r V let him conclude.˘29IJ• 2û* T/rule-225 4b^222vŽ4T ! ‡@, H – 23@ t 2:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V . . V V … V x Ý ¡ X ¡ p J1 Sâ Jh[ 2:\N 2: A 2Z5D 2‡@,H – 2=@ ì F ] I h ,Ò 27 F:O 2923]2‡@I ,Q,,H– 2<@I h i 2‡2, H := 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I r aaa a: Nw . V ( ( ‡PQ 4] 1) V M r V 29I/ ^2:F * A conclude 2vŽ422T Let him conclude.2˘2‡, H @– 23@ t 2:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H 2a 2a Please take your seat. Please shah sahib, take your seat. I will give you the opportunity, Rajwana sahib, I will give you the opportunity. Please take your seat. . M V V V JL/ J + Kž V V J1 r TH V Sâ … J [ 2@2)l IIh•x ]2)ç 29I,IK 2:\N ^2ub^27H 29 2) •o 2:f B 2)2ub4* w ! 9I }•hI 2v@, h,H 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI Ih V … V z V V M H V - . . 22:PA×N \ 2: 2=•S 52=¡ T/ 42: [ 22<@2=V Q ¬ç 2]t 4b2bd42•7INö 28J, © 2a2:\ NFPA 2: 2<7 †p 42:+ 2*2<7T/ N x 4] ç 2a29I/ * A 2•4} •î4 .V r V V V p . . . ž V 2:F *29A IIIJq 2•4}•î 42@2<7l Nx 4]2)29ç • J LK 2: NFF†Ô 29 J + K 2bd42: 472: C• 2<7 † p 42 judges 2:A 2=• 52=¡ S T/ 42˘:\ N x r JLV F . A JL a29I,K 2:fB b2*2<@A Ih,/ 2ó@ é H 27H 2)• 2: fB 2)I o 2v@,o 2c 2u7Gz 42a9 I K V V r V 2˘:fB 10 minutes time 2vŽ42˘9T IJ• 2*A 2 conclude ‡, H @ –2=Sâ 2 :9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V V Sâ ! ! ‡,H @– 2= 2] I h ›[ be sure your time is 10 minutes, you have to conclude by that time. r V V V V V J• JL J q p … R¡ V Sâ … J [ 29I 2*A 2time check 24}I •à 2a29IIK 2:F 729KB 2‡Ni 2u^2:> O 22˘v@, h,H:= 2]Ih›[ 2}•hI Ih M M . V . V … - J V V SH J§p p V s x 2@@oh[ 2){ö 4d2@ to 2@7OT 2`429I o I 1 2˘:fB 2)2ub4*I o w 2¦ }I •à 2˘2v@, h,H 2˘)*I o st a@ k 2 28 V V V V r V V J £Io J1 J1 JL 2b472<@FIIh¢hi 2)2:f•B 2@£• 2@ A 2: F 2<7 † p 42)2:\ • N ¢ ^292u42@I ¢ £ • 2 article 2`I o 42:F 2<7†p 429I 2 2000 a9 I K V V . . . M … V V - aaaa2:\NAFx 2: 2: @h‘p 22: ¡ ]éi 2c4^2:;m N / 42bd429I,JLK 2:F *2|@A,+êJt 422: [ 2ª528272<7n A A Ò 2‡@, H – 2—}I F ® V V Sâ r H V 2discussion *T/ 2 President address 2‡@2=2],H – I h ›[ 2 :9V IJ1 }•hI T 2 v@, h,H kindly come to that.˘:fB M … V V … V V wV / J1 p Sâ Jh[ 27,IH 2)• 2:fB 2)2ub4*I o 2¦}I •à 2˘2v@, h,H 2a2<72@b2Ž42*2u429K B KI L T 2a2:f B 2`hO 2:= 2]Ih›[ 2} •hI I . . . W . V . ›i . p R D S/ XXVV¡ ¡ JL. J o 2}, •h 2‡†,p 2a2:O 2: F @2:>,Q O 2=I @ + - 2}@K L ì–ì,F2:A 2<42‡,H @ 2=@ F 2]I h ,Ò 2a9IIK 2:f B b2*2‡A [ d^2: A 2<429 @, o r V J1 JšIhT/ w x J L V - . V 2928I I 2bd}2‡@ ® ,,H–h 2<@I i 2‡2:, HNNA 2:\ 2: 2Z5DÝ 2: [ 2<@ q©Ip 23d2a9I K 2<@ F 42:; O 42‡ † , p 2˘2: Bf 22•@ o VV . r . M r V w p V F 2vŽ42)T • 2@IIIIhA 2) šk 2:F 2‡@,H –hh 2<@ iA 2˘@ 2) š k 2: [F 2<42: 2‡@ , H –h 2<@ i 272:F N 2*2<@d2‡23d2T/KK L ,o, H a: O 2*]28@bI / T L V V V ~Ô . ¡ X ¡ V V 2a:fB 2= 2v@272:,o,H F 2‡@,H –ì 2=@F 2]I h ,Ò 2˚:f B 2@^2 29 V X V V V . V r M V . B Sx … • / . V m V S / 2)• 2:\fN @TQ 2= 4^25 yF2`42*2=I o T/ @2:;1N 427A 2u4272Z* F A 2v@2<@, o © F, 42c7 A 2‡, H 2)• 2:f B 2ub4* w 2= 42¦} I •à V . . V x J1L’A JJ… . J 1 J 1 • 2:\NAF 2: 2: @¢£t 2ó, t 272bd42=A 29I,III 2729 HK 2Z*2v7*2@T/ F A II hh¢A 2@ A 2˘29 2: F @ Ô 2Z}II•à 2˘29 2= @2Z} 1 •à V V . M V V / . SPIhTH V J W S / V 2)b472)29*2:oi II oI A n 2)2 o subject 2<72@*KBo A 2“, 27 A 2<429I 1 2a2:fB 2= 2= 42_}2ub4*ò w 2¦}I •à 2˘2<72”K B T Q X V J. . M JW J VT. . SPIhH V J / 2˘29III1 2•4}•î 42:A 2<7Nx 4]ç 2:f B 22), h[ 29 1 2= 42˘29 •2*235@An hi 2±@p t 2Z}I •à 2)2<72@*2“I o KB o A, 272<429 A II 1 29* A V r V V ..J1 /V H J o • H . Nz 2:AF 2: *2v@29A,,oIII a9*2v@2*2} A/ oTTTI •Tî, 28 2˘29 @22vŽ42*2‚7, Q T / Öi 72= 528¡ ,î 2*2•4} / • 42:A 2<7 P ×I V VV V A/. A J¢£IIo……• J ¢ £ o • /. x 2c 2]q,- d]2˘9*2v@2c, Q IIKIA,,oo 2<7IN/ @52˘9ˆ ^2*2@ A ¢1+p 42= @24b@ž 2˘9 ^2*2@ A ¢1 p 4272= A @2:;N 42a2<7K B 2b@I h / 2:\ N V M M V r .SPIhTH J1 /Œ A + Ý p . / ..A . - / 2@*2“o AAA, 292a29*2872c2:IIIAF *2: n 2¨ 2)Ó Ÿ2: [ 2<7 N x 4]2˘29*2ç A v@2c,,o 2gb7I/ †D, 2˘9*I A 2v@ o a<7 KB V V M V z S â r H V a‡@,,H– 2)47b2óo,H IN b2a‡@ H – 2= 2)*I o st 2:9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H Senator Malik Muhammad Rafique Rajwana: Thank you, Mr. Chairman! I am really grateful for giving me the floor. Senator Sabir Ali Baloch: Sir, I want to say something on point of order. Mr. Chairman: Sabir Baloch sahib , floor is with Rajwana Sahib. Let him conclude. Baloch sahib , please take your seat. r V J H V s x . ›i … J [ a9I LK 2:F Ž423d2: [ 2intention 8, 29Ih 2:fB 23b4^42}, •h 2`42)2I o I o:ª7T P,o 2=¬ç 2*@,/I– 2} •hI h .. MMFp M Ô F r V 2—}IIFƒ 2=§,T 2vŽ42‡@T ,L,H–© 2642]@K i 22a9IJ¢ b2—} F ƒ 22‡@ H –– 2ª7P, o 2*@,/ 2:9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H V Ô a9IIJLK 2:\Nx 2: A 2‡, [ 2*x db2a9 J ¢ b Rules are for everybody sitting in this House. Senator Malik Muhammad Rafique Rajwana: Sir, I am grateful to you for giving me the floor and the time. I would recall the first speech which I had spoken with humbleness to this august House after taking oath that your honour was elected as unopposed Chairman. Definitely all the honourable Senators had reposed confidence in you. I still remember two lines of my speech that ådefinitely the honourable Chairman is not the Chairman of the 30 Peoplesã Party, he is the Chairman of the Senate.ç Sir, my submission is that today the detailed judgment of the Supreme Court of Pakistan has been announced and readily the copy is available with me. I would not say anything irrelevant belonging to the legal fraternity and legal profession, being a senior member of the Supreme Court Bar also. Just I would read few lines of the judgment. Then I make my submissions before this House. Whether in view of this judgment-is there first of all, any moral, constitutional and legal justification for the person who has been convicted by the apex court of this country to continue and to call him the Prime Minister and to act as the Prime Minister of the country. With your kind permission sir, unfortunately, my learned friends donãt have the copy but I can read. M V V r V we were in process of 2)• 2:fB 2ub4*2‡w , H @– 2)47 o ,H b2 :9V IJ1 }•hI TH 2v@, h,H p 2=§, 2 discussion on the Presidential address. Leader of the Opposition r … do you feel is it appropriate to go on to other discussion 29IJKL 2:F 7KB 2: O SJ \ ,o £ we have to go by 29IJ¢ Io ^2 while already a discussion is going on? 2)I o 2 rules now. I will not ask the treasury benches to respond to this. . R¡ a9I/ ^2@h,/ 2:O > 2vŽ4T Senator Malik Muhammad Rafique Rajwana: I will give the answer sir. Mr. Saeed Ghani in all presence was saying about the honourable Majeed Nizami sahib, he was referring to 2000 and then referring to Ayaz Mir. Does it relate to the debate on Presidential Address? M . V V r H V and he was @¢p 2”21 floor 72<42a‡@A, H – 2)47b2)*o, H I o st 2 :9V IJ1 }•hI T 2 v@, h,H . V 2bd42 9IJLK 2 :NB f @TQ 2 @ o *A 2 participate 9IJ1 2 u42 vŽ42T *w 42 participating in the discussion . . V J V M p V … … V 729F I L,K 2:fNB @2@*2‡TQ oAÒ 2*2v@T / , ì H 2: A 2g]/ IIo] o * T/ 31 floor is with you. Ok, I have got no objection to that. If you want to participate in the Presidential Address, I have got no objection and floor is with you. You may proceed now. Senator Malik Muhammad Rafique Rajwana: Sir, I would just read a few lines that what has been held by the honourable Supreme Court. åAs regards the sentence to be passed against the convict, we note that the findings and the conviction for contempt of court recorded above are likely to entail some serious consequences, terms of article 63, 1(g) of the Constitution which may be treated as mitigating factor towards the sentence to be passed against him. He is therefore, punished under section 5 of the Contempt of Court Ordinance so and so with imprisonment till the rising of the court.ç I would read with your kind permission the additional note by Mr. Justice Asif Saeed Khosa. He has traced the history of law and particularly that history of law has been compared with the governance, with the Head of State and I would refer to article 2(a) of the Constitution, åwhereby the sovereignty rests with Allah Almighty and the will of the people has to be exercised through chosen representative.ç Now the chosen representatives who have elected the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister stand convicted by Supreme Court, what has been said in the Supreme Court judgment? Sir a reference has been made in this judgment to Khalil Gibranãs saying sir and I would read three lines. åPity the nation.ç . - åPity the nation that is led by a:fB 29IJ1 2g@x Q 28A 2•72)ö• 2*2•72:T/ ö fB 2u7Gz 42ad* A 2?b2 those who laugh at the law, little realizing that the law shall have V V Ô Ý . ! v@, h,H 2a:fBNB 2:i @ tL 23d2:f 2@b272±K KBTÒ 27, H 2ªŽ42), • :f B 2¨+ 2v@@ ñ¯ i 2)2I o the last laughç and today V V Jqp . S/ J1… . A … p J 1 Sir, floor is with me.2a2@b2*KLA 29I 2v@2=, o T 4 29II 2a<7KB 2@b2û*KLT/ 2v@, o 2c 2vb7 A 2?I }T •t 29 32 . M V §pA V § p p J V r H V 2‡@, H – 2b]22a=,o 2c 2ub4*w 2=, 2:Pq ;2: [ 2vŽ42:T F 29 I 1 ! ‡, H @– 2)47o ,H b2:9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H . V Ô M I will again remind you one thing; you are !‡, H @– 2)47o ,IH b2a9J¢ b2—}I F ƒF M V p J 2ub4* w2¦}I •àq 2:P ;2vŽ42a9T I • 2± sIo ^2)2I overy senior counsel and honourable member a9IJ• 29 V [ Senator Malik Muhammad Rafique Rajwana: Sir, I have to express my feelings. anyhow . x V JL . . … p J1 V ! :\N 2: A 24]2a9QI K 2vŸ@2@QI h A 2] { ,F 2: A 2judgment 2u42)• 2@¢p 2@b24*K L A 2 realize 2@t 24b7O 29 I ! v@, h,H - - - 2a9I/ *A 2]Ž4b]1 š +Ý2*T/ 2 judgment u42a9*II/A 2? b2*2<7T /w 72a9* x / A 2? b 2*2`TT/š1 2a9*I/ A 2? b2*2•7 / ö M V r V V V / . ž V SJo m ˆ a)*I o st 2a29^2‡I,IN‘K 4227A 2b47 H 2=I Ž42bd42c 7@2˘=” F á Q 4 M V M r H V You have raised an issue 22)• 2:fB 2)2ub4*2a)*II ow o s t 2 :9V IJ1 }•hI T 2v@, h,H . 2v@o 2¦}I •à 2vŽ42T pertaining to a judgment. Earlier there was a short order. , r V . V m J p J V§p m T J t §p JV [ 2`I o 42_}ò 2ac Ž429IKq 2u@To 2Zb@ + ž 29 I 12<4742a=IF 2c@2u@2:,QT o A 2*sIh 2judgment 2=, 42a9I • 29 M M V GJ+Ô IF… J 2 issue 27,,IH 2bd42472u”K B, Q 42`42@I o l 29I 2¨© ^7 H 2¨ l 2)• 29 • 2±sIo ^2)2I o simply food for thought V five senior honourable judges of Supreme Court 2@IhA 2 raise 2:F 2vŽ4T were sitting there and the Law Minister and Attorney-General were p 2=§, 2 earlier 29IJLK 2:fB b2*A 2 raise 2vŽ42T issue 27,H 2there. They had a discussion. . . r žm . § p V JL appropriate 272:fFB 2=b2c72v@2=K K B ,o , 2: [ 2 treasury benches 2*2<42a9T/ I K 2:F 72KBraise M . V / 2a)I o * st let it be decided over there.2729^2:FI F 72K B raise 7A issue 2u42*T/ 2forum M a‡, H @– 23@ t 2= ,- X … V A. / J1 V M ¬ Jh[ 2)• 22@k 2 33 V V . … X … V m w V hI/ / J LK †Ô p M ¬ Jh[ 2Z}I •à 2‡@, H – 2c”Ih 2@ – b2—72¨[ IF , *Ž42a9I 2:N 2`I hO 2)2I o :3@t 2=ç 25õn 2]Ih[ 2} •hI I . 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V V Ô . p … £o F W JL J h i 27A 2<7 wx 72<7 O Ÿ2‡Ò 2:A 2•4*w d*2vT / b7TJt 2? 42}I •ì 2:>F 2ª52=n 429IIK 2¦^29 b”2bd42:f1 B 2@IhA 2^@ é ›F 4 . … ¬ J . . p A m V IJo r 2=ç 2—Ö Ž4b]– 29I 1 a:fB 2@@272<7oQ, A N â @ +Ó,- 2¦^@ 42c 2u42bd42cb@2*T o PT h T 2 credit 2‡,[ 2)a:fI o B 24723]@KB o ñ M V. V V V V GIF J1 J L 29 b7429TFII 2bd429K 2:;PQ 2*A 2”2±@1 p t 27 A 2‡, [ 2bd42˘2: [ 2maturity 2:F 2<7†p 42)• 2@k 2 40 V V V V H V V JF . p . - V J S›i ~ 2*2:AxwB 2: Ž423d27282:fA, 2•52bd429Ý IIéI 2)hÒIT 2*2gb7T / / †D, 2@2<42)l • 29 LK 2)2•=I o 2: AF 2u4a=Ô 2: 2<7 † p 4 . V V . . V V . V J• J o J L B V 2č@hIJéIF 2]×ïi 2@2<42˘2@ lII hh w 2@ A 2 mention ), h/ 52‡¡ †,p 2<@qIp 272<429AII,I 2:F 2<7 †p 429 @27a29, o H K 2:f N @2@T Qh PTQ V V r . J… VV. -. J - . A . . ž 2:F 2<7†p 42a9IIo @j *TTH 2<4d*272gb7 / A†I/ D,, 2*2¨2±@ A 1p t 2`429IIo o 72¦b7 ö† D 2•@ +ho¢p 2c 2<@GA @2)T • 2@ p 2=K 2` o 4 . V . V J1. p - J 1 ..V H V J1 S/ 29I,KI 2^7H d2‡7i sQ 2¦^@Ó 42¦b7 † D, 2)2¦b@I o +ž 29 2vŸ@ QhlQ 29, 2˘2@I A 2*A ^2@ 2vŸ@ 2<42:A 22008 29I 2*5I/ åF 2=T 4 V V VVV r V §p V J … Sx . m 2*^2:A F 2<7†p 42=, 2@ l2<429I • 2achievements 27,H 2:F 2‡N‘I b@2bd42:To F 2‡7 i s Q 2]{,F 2: A 2u42bd42cŽ4 V V V Ô Ô Jqp§p J q Ô 2excellence 23d2:fBB 2@IIIhhow 2@ A 2±TTÒ 272@2:f,,II,HH 2± Ò 272)2@• qÔ 29 2)2=I o , 29 2: FA 2<7 †Hp 42^7d@2:, oh 2u42*C1 2@I A VVVV. V Jo W. A žV M § ,p AV Ô . A 2:F 2<7†p 429I @2=,o© 2‡†,p 2bd42c2=]@K oF 2= 2c2<7bd5I FD 2: F 2<7 † p 42a:f B 2@I h+w 2”2`2]T Q o Q 2c 2|@Ô 2bd4 . V JL. V V Q / … -x A V x … Sx 29IIK 2:F *2b@AIhJQ 42)db2@I o t 2<7A 2*2¨ A T 2: w Ž423d2) • 29^2b7 OT 2:\NA 2: 2*sñ 2bd42ª7T Œ 2c 2<42˘2:\ NA 2: 2‡N‘I b@To V M V V . V V M V r Ni . .MV … p V A V 2˘cA 2=žK ]@o ©F 2c A 2< d7PqTp 2=õ 2bd42‡ ,NJ1 2•@+p 2:F 2<7 †OAp 42˘4b7T- 29IJq 2)hGF 272 point 2=’ 2:F 2<7†p 42* C1 . V M V V V V §p SJQT x V § p V . - 2= 2=I :>F 272*2 41 VV.V V . . . Ò¡ V M 1ž J q p . 2vŸ@Ih+hH 2Zb@KKIž 2˘:fB 2@ s t 72—KKBPh 2b4]424b@o + ž 2`t 2:> F 2*2¨2±@A p t 2`4272‡I o A , [ 2?2)a:I o Bf 29 2) h [ 4b . V ~JVV ž . p V J . ¡ 2)• 2:fBB 2=Ip 23d2bd42:f 29IKKI1 2}IK•Tî 2=2`42¦}IIo •q , 2¦b@+ž 2a:f B 2`42|} o •à 2¦b@ + ž 2*29C 1 LK 2: N st 7K B 2—P hÒ . V .. ž FBNw ãi ž w B/ †O†D,,-H xP p ¢p / D - J1 V . A 2?272:KK, 2<72 7,KI 2Zb4^42Zb@+ 2bd42c 2:f b2gb7. II 2‡, 2a: 7T 2: ;2gb7 29 2<@ h G @To SP{F r . 2:A 2ª”272<772:, çA w x A 2`2Zb@š1+çKIKIž 2˘2c72•@2?w KBI 29J1 2`2Zb@ š 1 +Q ž 2a: w 29 J o @2_52c2¦}, n A •q ,p ž V . V r 2? K 2‡, ,KH 2)• 2@2:kP1 2ª5n 2=W 423d2˘2@ kk 2: P 1 2b@ bdb2˘2cw 72bd^2g5B,/ Ý 2: [w 2`š1 2Zb@ + KIž 2˘2: 29Jo Ž42} ƒ IJ1 2ü47ö i . . r A¬ ,p JKž m . J TQ 2|@Óp b7Ö 2c2=,Ó 2)2:f•B 2@b2@2@K LQq, Ô 2)29I o IKI+ 272:f Fs B 2cŽ42‡7iQ,K 2¦b@ + ž 2: [w 2‡2a:,, H 29 š *2A7 B 2`I o 42‡ [ … . . DW V V SG[ H J1JV Ô J L O R §,p ž . 2? 2829, II 2|@to 23b@2), • 2:\\f@2@NL T QhO b2^@2)2±@I oII op t 2: AN 2u42*29C1 K 2: > 2)2= o 2^7H2?K 2a:f B 2v4*, H 2‡ †, p r V M V ……V . p M p 2a2:F 7KB 2¨@1t 29IJ 1 2u423^@b2: o [ 2v4d@úNi 2b4}29K L V IIIIJJo1 29 2|@ tQ 2b@T 2˘24729KB J q1 2¨@ tú 2=§, 2v4d@ N i 2`429o J 1 I II. I Ô. V . m Ô ž … V . . economic 2±TTÒ 2˘2@¢htlñp 2@i @ 2@2v@Ž42cb]2±á Ò 2˘2:fB 2=b2û*2:KI,/ [ 2¦}2‡ •o †,p 2¦^@Ž42¦b@, o+ Kž . V r ž JLB . ¡ H J qQop A 2?2@29KIoIIK 2:fN @2‡T Qsš+ 2b]– 2ª528n, 2:f B b729 KB 2¨2ª52u42¨@ n © i 2: [B 2)d2c,Q 2u42:f 2recession X V . A … p F ..A ž ž J1W Q J L B 2:A 2legacy 2c 27NO, 2} I •ì 2:>F 2‡[ @Ihæ[ 27,IIH 2c 2‡ ‘K @i 2?2)K • 2:f B 29 2= 42¨2@2u4a9 lQK 2:f N @2‡T , [ r V . ž V ... V ¡ 2729FIJšTVQ 2*A// 2¨ Q, 2¨2? 1 K 2*2u42˘:fTTB 2<5@¡ k 2*2u42‡7i s Q 2¦^@ Ó+p 42¦b@Kž 2bd42:f B 2cm@ h T/ 42: F 2‡ s šn + 2b]– 2b7 M V V . w V V V S/ J Kž ¸ M a)*I o st 2‡†,p 2ac2:P1 2bd}2|} ò •à 2=T 429I + 2)š• 42 @©F 4 Mr. Chairman: Thank you. The House stands adjourned to meet again on Wednesday, the 9 th May, 2012 at 5.00.P.M. ------[The House was then adjourned to meet again on Wednesday, the 9 th May, 2012 at 5.00.P.M] ------ 42