Sander Vanocur Oral History Interview – JFK#1, 8/9/1973 Administrative Information Creator: Sander Vanocur Interviewer: Larry J. Hackman Date of Interview: October 28, 1966 Length: 33 pages Biographical Note (1928 - 2019), Reporter, New York Times (1956 - 1957); National Broadcasting Company (NBC-TV), Washington, D.C., reporter (1957 - 1971), White House correspondent (1961 - 1963.) In this interview, Vanocur discusses meeting John F. Kennedy (JFK), the 1960 presidential campaign, JFK’s handling of the press, and the differences between covering the Nixon and Kennedy campaigns, among other things. Access Open Usage Restrictions According to the deed of gift signed August 8, 2002, copyright of these materials has been assigned to the United States Government. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. 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Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation Sander Vanocur, recorded interview by Larry J. Hackman, August 9, 1973, (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program. NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION JOHN F. KENNEDY LIBRARY Legal Agreement Pertaining to the Oral History Interviews of SANDER VANOCUR In accordance with the provisions of Chapter 21 of Title 44, United States Code, and subject to the terms and conditions hereinafter set f orth, I, Sander Vanocur, of Santa Barbara, CA, do hereby give, donate, and convey t o t he United States of America all my rights, title, and interest in the tape recording and transcript of personal interviews conducted on July 21, 1969, April 8, 1971, August 9, 1973, October 29, 1973, and J une 9, 1983 in Washington, DC, and prepared for deposit in the John F. Kennedy Library . This assignment is subject to the following terms and conditions : (1) During my lifetime the transcripts shall be made avail able only to those researchers who have secured my written authorizati on. Thereafter the transcript shall be available to all researchers. ( 2) During my lifetime the tape recordings shal l be made available only to those researchers who have secured my written authorization. Thereafter the tape recordings shall be available to all researchers. (3) During my lifetime, I retain all copyright i n the material given to the Un i ted States by the terms of this instrument . Thereafter the copyright in both the transcripts and tape recordings shall pass to the United States Government. During my lifetime, researchers who have secured my written authorization to use the transcripts and/or t ape recordi ngs may publish brief "fair use" quotations from the transcripts and/or tape recordings without my express consent in each case . (4) During my lifetime copies of the transcripts and the tape recordings may not be provided by the Library to researchers except upon my written authorization. Thereafter, copies of the transcripts and tape recordings may be provided by the library to researchers upon request. ( 5) During my lifetime copies of the transcripts and tape recordings may not be deposited in or loaned to institutions other than the John F . Kennedy Library. Thereafter, copies of the transcripts and tape recordings maye dMsited in or leaned to other institutions. ~ Don6r ~&- Sander Vanocur – JFK#1 Table of Contents Page Topic 1 First time meeting with John F. Kennedy [JFK] 3 JFK at the Governors’ Conference in Albuquerque 5, 8 JFK’s tactics in handling the press 7, 10 Wisconsin campaign 8 Family and friends working in the Kennedy campaign 14 Governors’ Conference in Glacier National Park 15 1960 Democratic National Convention 21 JFK’s meeting with Eleanor Roosevelt 22, 27 Comparisons between covering JFK and Richard Nixon 23 The first presidential debate 29 JFK’s Cabinet appointments Oral History Interview with SANDER VANOCUR August 9, 1973 By Larry Hackman For the John F. Kennedy Library HACKMAN: In the interview that you did with Bobbie Greene [Roberta W. Greene], you talked about the first time you came across JFK being at, I believe, the western governors’ conference back in Las Vegas. Anything that strikes you about that first pick-up with him and then the subsequent trip to California, or Oregon or whatever, that I think you took with him. VANOCUR: That’s not quite the first time I came in contact with him, I suddenly start to remember, I was in Chicago and I went to Midway Airport where Kennedy and Nixon [Richard M. Nixon] were on the same plane. It was a United Airlines plane and one was going to Denver--I can’t remember which one was--and the other was going somewhere else. They posed together, shook hands, and I can’t recall, but I have the instinct that Profiles in Courage was out at that time--I can’t be sure--but somebody posed with the other guy, whether it was Nixon with Kennedy or Kennedy with Nixon with a book, and I can’t think of Nixon’s book at the time, because I didn’t know there was one, or some book that Kennedy had been reading. And I can’t remember whether it was ‘58 or ‘59. My instinct was it was ‘59. But the first time I met Kennedy was not the western governors’ conference. I filmed in there in February, I believe, of 1960. But I took the film back to Los Angeles and originated it that weekend, my guess is for a Sunday show. And Sunday night and/or Monday--I can’t [-1-] remember which one it was--I went to Vegas [Las Vegas, Nevada] where Kennedy had gone for a couple of days en route to Oregon. It was after the western governors’ conference at Westward Ho Hotel in Albuquerque, and he was there. I think it was the Sands [Sands Hotel] or the Dunes [Dunes Hotel]--I can’t remember which. I think it was the Sands because the “Rat Pack” was playing--Sinatra [Frank Sinatra], Lawford [Peter Lawford], Sammy Davis, Jr., and Dean Martin. And I remember the occasion because--I think it was a Monday or a Tuesday night--Joey Bishop put his arm around Sammy Davis and said, “Whatever happens, senator, you’ve got the Jewish vote.” And then he also said -- Bishop that is, said, “Senator, if you get elected president, I’ve got one thing to ask from you. Don’t draft me.” And that night--whether it was Monday night or Sunday night, I can’t remember--it was the first time I met Kennedy because he was wandering around the craps tables. We came just face to face, and I introduced myself, and I thought--I could be wrong--that he wanted to shoot dice. He looked longingly at the tables, I thought. Also that night Hy Raskin [Hyman B. Raskin] was playing, perhaps with Salinger [Pierre E. Salinger], and I think, under Raskin’s great expertise, Salinger rolled a hell of a hand. That’s the first time I met Kennedy. HACKMAN: How did he react to or interact with the “Rat Pack?” How well did he know some of those people at that point? Or how did he relate to them? VANOCUR: I don’t really know. He reacted like any kind of electric personality would react to that. Roosevelt [Franklin D. Roosevelt], I remember as a child, used to have all the stars in to the White House for Christmas. Kennedy in a sense, like Roosevelt, was a star in his own right. But I had no inside information one way or the other. HACKMAN: But the comment, for example, by Bishop, was while Kennedy was in an audience or while.... VANOCUR: Kennedy was sitting right down front with six reporters. There was Mary McGrory, Blair Clark, I think Bob Healey [Robert Healey], a guy from U.S. News and World Report named Bob Ruth [Robert W. Ruth], I think, me, and that’s about it. Maybe one or two others, but it was a very small contingent. Kennedy was sitting and laughed because he loved that kind of ironic humor. HACKMAN: Let me ask you, just before we move on, what kind of relationship, if any, he really had with Blair Clark. It’s a name I heard mentioned as an old classmate or whatever. VANOCUR: Was a Midwesterner, born in Cleveland, went to Peoria and then Northwestern, I don’t know about this Harvard University b.s.