Monday, May 14, 1973 Fifth Series, No. 51 Vaisakha 24, 1895 (Saka)
Lok Sabha Debates
(Seventh Session)
LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT New Delhi Price Rs-2.00 CONTENTS
(Fifth i'f iu , Vo! \X V lll, 7th Session, 197Vi
No 56— Monday May 14 mVVaisakha 24, J89S (57/Afl) Column Calling Attention to Matter o( Uigent Public Import- ance —Reported ^tationei v scandal m the State Bank of India, New Delhi . . . 1—19 Papers Laid on the T a b l e ...... 19—20, 23—28 Re Arrest oi Shri Jambuw.int Dhote 2 0 -23 Messages fiom Fajva Sabha 2 8 -2 9 Assent to Bills 29 Leave of Absence fiom the Sittings ol the House 29—30 Matters under Rule V 7 ~ (1) Rc~Pakistan ■> application to world court on question of Pnsoneis of War . . . 3 0 -3 1 (n) Harassment ot Agriculturists by Banks in T e l a n g a n a ...... 32 (m) Reported cut in Rice Quota for Calcutta, Durgapur e t c ...... B Rc Discussion on Pay Commission Report • 33—37 Statutoiy Resolution Re. Proclamation in relation to the State oi Manipur—Adopted 37—58 and Manipur State Legislature (Delegation of Poweis)BilJ Motion to Consider .... 37 Shri Mohanraj Kalmgarayar 37- 39 Shri Madhu Limaye 39 41 Shri K C Pant 44 53 Clauses 2, 3 and 1 53 Motion to Pass .... 53 Shri Madhu Limaye 53 55 Shri N. Tombi S i n g h ...... 5 5 - 56 Shri K C Pant . . . . 5 6 -5 8 Coal Mines (Nationalisation) Bill . .. 58—143 Motion to Consider...... 58 Cclumnj Shri S. Mohan Kumaramangalam 58-70 124-134 Shri Robin Sen 70-72 Shri K. D. Malaviya .... 73—76 Shri Indrajit Gupta 76—83 Shri Damodar Pantiey 83—90 Shri Mohanraj Kaiingarayar 90—92 Shri Jagannath Mishra 92—95 Shri P. M. Mehta 95—98 Shri Ramsingh Bhai Verma . 99—102 Shri Onkar Lai Berwa 102—104 Shri R. N. Sharma.... 104-108 Shri H. M. Patel .... 108-110 Shri S’ukhdeo Prasad Verma 110-113 Shri Dhan Shah Pradhan 113- 115 Shri S. N. Mishra.... 115—118 Shri Ram Deo Singh 118—120 Shri Chapalendu Bhattacharyyia 120—122 Shri Chandrika Prasad • . 122-124 Clauses 2 to 35, The Schedule and Clause 1 135-136 Motion to Pass, as amended 13 Shri Ram Chandra Vikal 136-137 Shri S. M. Banerjee 137-138 Shri P. M. Mehta 138 Shri K. S. Chavada .... 138 Shri Mohanraj Kaiingarayar 138 Shri B. R. Shukla .... 138-139 Shri Samar Guha .... 139- 141 Dr. K a i l a s ...... 141 Shri S. Mohan Kumaramangalam 141—143 Cinematograph (Amendment) Bill 143—149 Motion to Consider, as passed by Rajya Sabh 143 Shri Manoranjan Hazra 143—146 Shri Dharam Bir Sinha 146-147 Clauses 2 to 5 and 1 ... 148 Motion to pass, as amended * 149 Apprentices (Amendment) Bill 149—150 Motion to consider, as passed by Rajya Sab 149 Shri Raghunatha Reddy 149 Half-An-Hour Discussion Request by Confederation of Central Govern ment Officers’ Association to the Prime Minister for Fair Scrutiny of Pay Commissionn’s Report 150-172 Shri Bhogendra Jha » 152-157 Shri Yeshwantrao Chavan 165—172 LOK SABHA DEBATES 2
LOK SABHA (iv) furnishing of incorrect information in several cases to the Rates Committee Monday, May 14, ,1973/Vaisakha 24, 1895 for sanction of rates. (Saka) TheLok Sabha met at Eleven of the Clock On the basis of the report of the Chief [MR, SPEAKER in the Chair] Vigilance Officer, the bank has initiated departmental proceedings against three CALLING ATfENTION TO MATTER officers of the Stationery Department. OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Of the three, two have been placed' under REPORTED STATIONERY SCANDAL IN suspension by the bank. All the three STATE BANK OF INDIA, NEW DELHI Officers have been subsequently 'charge- sheeted by the bank and their explanations ?;{T 'iq f~ (~) : 31~&f ~T~ ";:r~ f~~f f~~ ~c: ~'t~31r:f) ~f~T The State Bank of India has reported 'fir PU'fr 3!®*w : ?rtjr «rn[7 arrs s n t r s r^ r ^ s t T^r f i anp: am *r£ | i w t ^ ^ ?ft $5 3TOTT I SfFtfTT jf fa f a f f 3im f ift arww *$t*qr: aft tft arre *»> |T TO fwr^ : 3TTT fw fw r w *sejfe%3T**fS$ < i w % arrr srt ^ ^ ^ £ l w an? ^ fjr for ozrt*4T wrr itwt 3RTf fair* :sprr arrr ®r^«rr ^ f ^rsm cr> ^ stt?t ^ ^ tt, 4 % 5 TR 'R ^w t^ MDrfrr? °p t t f a w f 4 s i 3TPT *Ic*T w:t t* f ? *ft ?rt ^rt^rrl % *rre H a r k sr«wr : 4 «ft f fo? WW % 3fT SR? SFf f?W*T | t 3W % srr vcvn %x v*b ^ s t ^rTcrr | aflr src fwrnjrcrn: s^r^rr ^rr shr- zs ^ ^st *p*? sft *nj faro*: sft 3n?r 5rrs^ft f t «ft *ra f m $ : arwrar *r§tro, t i arrr ?ft*f¥ f^TtT TTpft 3ft arfcfsq* fcp*fa | Ttfro fa =*nr # ^ riz snr, finrr to t «rr, ^ ^ OT^-sfto tfxnm rfa m sx # §to ^rrfr fr*rr §3rr TOr ^BT? »H[ *TSc5PT°T 9TPT t iTf fa f5T f^TT facT^r *q*r TT ^fferaT fSIT % I wrw : «rnt£ m 3fR> «pV wff *rr^r*r ?srr fa w t *- sr^ w ^? nft¥tg7cr^t i srnnc st pt ^frt ^>^r??:if«i*3T % 45 *rm %• ^ *rr^ | ?r> 3Tf tt^: q"y ^-irr i 3Tpr jfT? T? f I ^TT JTfT ^ ?>rr fa ^ its s f A gft tfttrfararr * f f t vtt ^TT% *JT I SH? *Ptf *mj*ft SfTcT^ t» far*r ajrt frraw ariwr *}*r sverr 1 1 frsr $1 SHRI YESHWANTRAO CHAVAN : The W tw vr cr^rr TT«£fa|!?r «rr ark total amount of overpayments would be 19 5 6 it w # r i in the neighbourhood of Rs. 1 *22 lakhs and 5T^«rr if ^ * r w r f w * * 5^ overstocking of Rs. 45 lakhs. This is the one sentence I am adding. .(Interruptions) ^ w % wtt ^ 555 a n v? If you ask a supplementary I shall explain % srw* qw wrwr ? i^rr g 1 it. w «rrrrft 0ft *?t irnrw The bank has initiated action for recover- ing awounts paid in excess to the suppliers f , ^ A 19 srfaw wnsrR a?%^ concerned. Value of losses on account of f 1 ^ * aftarfai w rre inferior material supplied is being worked out. Stationery received in excess of f, 4'^t{V % arrarc «rc: t o p 1 f*r requirements is being utilised by transfer farcr# tenfanRT ft 3 * * % 22 srfircrer to branches in other circles where it is fsTrfar^^spp^'m rt i«rnrpt$FT needed. % fTTT aft *5? ITT arfim arr^ f , The bank has also added that it has * 2 3 srfafTcT A't> % sttt ter to t l taken suitable steps for ensuring the strict observance of prescribed procedures by s ^ rr r rt aft f , H the Regional Stationery Department, New n 2 7 srfcmr % 1 1 Delhi, for printing, purchase, stocking and distribution of stationery. % 1970-71 aftr 1971- 72 3t>t: T ^ f ^ frwra : smsr A 3T7 sfrr ckkrr am % ^fkr t^ t | fgw % W 'fiiU fa r! *f?ft H ftW ^ET «TRT # *ft ^ ^ r m r r r t t o t ^ ft «ft «t t «% ? m z 3RT f 4 ^TT ^TftTT g f t q$ 45 $T ^F^RTW SW trvrgfr i? SpRTST *HT ^rrar ^rr «ft sftarr fa rto fart ^ ^PTcrr * * r «r?t % fa* *r£r fkm a m ^ r r 7 ^ ^1r ^r fe rr fm W | arnr ^fkr * m m n ?rqr *rr ifr 3 f * ^ ^ ’tWt = a r w i f srw% % f^rq ^erm ^ ?nt ^ tft aw qf art Em tfsft vr ^ t r | ^ ^ $ ap*r ?r wnr 25-30 f s r R tTf*3f?r ft? % ?frr “the value of loss on account of inferioi 4 s r r o t IShri Manoraryan Hazra] Limaye also. I have answered that it is make their fortune out of not necessary. A Member of Parliament such fraudulent activities. And only when has got still more important work to do the cat come out of the bag with its own than going in to these small matters of enormous notoriety, they took departmental a bank. There are certainly other officers. action against the officer who, they thought, Regarding the judicial probe, this is was responsible. As you know, in the pos- thumous famed Glosworthy’s Justice, the not a matter in which a judicial probe can be ordered. hero, Faider, had to undergo penal servitude for three years for committing a similar (Tt^TV) : crime. ST^r, 3TWT In our land, the land of great justice *ft wt % ssr % w ft men inferior to Faider go unpunished every day in every sphere of life. There- fore I want to ask the Minister whether W t, Srfor fifforer srrf* m xnp he would order a judicial probe by appo- inting a Judge of the Supreme |,Court srerR arst q-brnft fa w with the much talked outlook in confor- % zfzx eo afr §arr mity >yith the changing society. My third «tt, | question is this : in this case the financial rules and regulations had been trampled ^ sfV ^ pT, down from A to Z. 1 want to know from % ipt feforer TOTT the Minister whether he is prepared to set up a committee of Members oft his Parlia- vjfr ®r)r atr ^ft 59“ W ?Ft 4T^r 144 of the Cr. P. C. one could understand, the circumstances which in his opinion but he has been arrested under the MISA. justified that MISA should be used against mtm ngm: ***M Shri Jambuwant Dhote. Should we not be ^r^rr given any information on this ? | % srnr t , w t MR. SPEAKER : 1 have called for the t, afa aTTf? t I wffrr information and when it comes, I shall ^ $ *h f f fo R 3TT ^TTcft t I ? T ^ *T call the hon. Member. Tft^TT * fft ?rr* t *fcr, 'rn# SHRI VASANT SATHE (Akola): I have received a letter from a senior advocate from ^rarr^r ^ # smrr i Nagpur, Mr. A. S. Bobde that he had asked (Interruptions) the Police Commiss.oncr for permission to interview him... MR. SPEAKER : I have asked for in- formation from the hon. Minister and when MR SPEAKER : He need not answer it comes, I shall call the hon. Member. on behalf of the hon Minister. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Aliporc): SHRI VASANT SATHE : After all, he In the intimation which the authorities has a right to defend himself. Why should have sent to you about his arrest, have they the counsel not be allowed to meet him ? mentioned that he has been arrested under MR. SPEAKER : I am not here to pio- the MISA ? nounce judgement on legal issues... MR. SPEAKER : On the basis of what SHRI VASANT SATHE : You have to Shri Birender Singh Rao has written, to me, protect a Member of Parliament. I am asking for information from the hon. MR. SPEAKER : I am getting the infor- Minister. mation. 1 am not here to adjudicate on The intimation which I have received has legal issues. When courts are there, the already been printed m the bulletin dated Speaker is not the adjudicating body. I the 28th April, 1973, and it reads thus: can only j udge if a privilege is involved. As “Shri Jambuwant Dhote, Member, Lok T said, I am getting the information. Sabha, was detained under provisions SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : The court of Maintenance of Internal Security has no jurisdiction. Therefore you must Act, 1971. He was taken into custody at intervene. Will you kindly request him to about 18 *15 hours on the 25th April, make a statement ? 1973. He is lodged m Yeravada Cen- tral Prison, Poona. A regular inti- MR. SPEAKER : I will get the infor- mation to this effect sent by post at mation. (Interruptions) about 11 -30 hours on the 26th instant”. SHRI VASANT SATHE : The police SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU (Diamond should allow his counsel to interview him. Harbour) : It has other implications. This is an elementary thing that should An hon. Member of this House has been be allowed. arrested under the MISA when the House SHRI PILOO MODY (Godhra) : As is in session. The Home Minister is here, far as 1 understand the law, I do not think and you should ask him to say something. a Member of Parliament can be arrested Let us hear his voice for a change. unless it is to your satisfaction. There was an assurance given that Membeis MR. SPEAKER : No, no ; not at all. of Parliament would not be arrested under This is a new law he is enunciating. the MISA SHRI PILOO MODY : The speaker has MR. SPEAKER : Is there any exemption to be satisfied that it was on good grounds. for MPs under the MISA ? MR. SPEAKER : Do not introduce new SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Will you things in the procedure. But in your case, please request the Home Minister to inform if ever you are arrested, I will take the House of the circumstances under particular interest. which the MISA had to be used against the SHRI PILOO MODY : Please put it Member ? After all, he is a Member of the on record. .House. The hon. Minister should tell us (Interruptions) 23 Papers Laid MAY 14, 1973 Papers Laid 24 MR. SPEAKER : I am looking into it ANNUAL REPORT OF PUNJAB AOROINDU8TRBB I am getting the information. I am not al- CORPORATION LTD., CHANDKJARH lowing anything else on this. When the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE information comes, I will tell you. MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE (SHRI SHRI K. S. CHAVDA (Patan) : Will it ANNASAHEB P. SHINDE): I beg to come before the end of the session ? lay on the Table a copy of the Annual Re- port (Hindi and English versions) of the MR. SPEAKER : Of course, it should Punjab Agro-Industries Corporation be before the session ends. Limited, Chandigarh, for the year ended SHRI FILOO MODY : I had written 31st May, 1971 along with the Audited to you about a sort of milk which is full Accounts and the Comments of the of worms that is being supplied by the Delhi Comptroller and Auditor-General thereon, Milk Scheme. This bottle is not only full under sub-section (1) of section 619-A of of worms but there a sort of long tapeworm the Companies Act, 1956. [Placed in also here. Something should be done about Library. See No. LT- 5061/73] this. You should draw the attention of the relevant Ministry. The Delhi Milk Scheme DELHI, MEFRUT AND BULANDSHAHR MILK AND is supposed to be a scheme that ensures MILK PRODUCTS CONTROL ORDER, 1973 AND hygienic milk supply to the population. NOTIFICATIONS UNDER ANDHRA PRADESH PANCHAYA1 SAMFTHIS AND Z1LLA PARISHAD MR. SPEAKER : You can hand it over ACT, 1959 to the Health Minister. SHRI ANNASAHEB P. SHINDE: SHRI PILOO MODY : Who is m charge On behalf of Prof. Sher Singh, I beg to lay of milk ? on the Table MR. SPEAKER : Everybody is in charge (1) A copy of the Delhi, Meerut and Bu- of milk. You can keep it on the Table. landshahr Milk and Milk Products SHRI PILOO MODY : I believe in Control Order, 1973 (Hindi and Eng- Lucknow there is no milk at all. Then.* are lish versions) Published in Notification no worms there. No. S.O. 268 (E) in Gazette of India dated the 5th May, 1973 under sub- 11 -58 tirs. section (6) of section 3 of the Essential Commodities Act, 1955. [Placed in [PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE—Contd. Library. See No. LT-5062/73]. REVIEW AND ANNUAL REPORT OF HOUS- ING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORA- (2) (a) A copy each of the following No- TION LTD., NEW DELHI, FOR 1971-72 tifications under sub-section (2) of section 69 of the Andhra Pradesh THE MINISTER OF WORKS AND Panchayat Samithis and Zilla Parishads HOUSING (SHRI BHOLA PASWAN Act, 1959 read with clause (c) (iii) of SHASTRI) : I beg to lay on the Table a the Proclamation dated the 18th copy each of the following papers (Hindi January 1973 Issued by the President and English versions) under sub-section (1) in relation to the State of Andhra of section 619-A of the Companies Act, Pradesh 1956 :— (i) G.O. Ms. No. 295 published in (i) Review by the Government on the Andhra Pradesh Gazette dated working of the Housing and Urban the 20th July, 1972 making certain Development Corporation Limited, amendment to the rules relating New Delhi, for the year 1971-72. to the competent authority to (ii) Annual Report of the Housing and appoint and transfer members Urban Development Corporation Li- of different cadres of Statutory mited, New Delhi, for the year 1971- Panchayat Samithis and 2illa 72 along with the Audited accounts Paripbads, together with an‘ex- and the comments of the Comptrol- planatory note. ler and Auditor-General thereon. (hi d O . Ms. No. 296 published in [Placed in JUbtary. See No. LT- ' Andfrra Pradesh Gazette dtfted 5060/73] " the'20th Jafy, 1972 making Certain 25 Papers Laid VATSAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) Papers Laid 26 amendment to the Andhra Pra- 12 bn. desh Panchayat Samithis and ZtHa Parishads Ministerial Service rules WWW qgtal: ^ ^ VT ^3|T9Rr together with an explanatory fa nmrf sft te r fc note. ST3*r ft (lii) G.O. Ms. No. 307 published in t i A t* ft vftx w r i t e Andhra Pradesh Gazette dated the 13th July, 1972 making certain amendment to the Rules relating 0Interruptions) to the competent authority to appoint and transfer members MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. Mr. of different cadres of statutory Jyotirmoy Bosu had taken objection, in cer- Panchayat Samithis and Zilta tain cases, to the delay and I allowed him. Parishads, together with an ex- Not other matters planatory note. f?nw: srsr ^ ^ (iv) G.O. Ms. No. 309 published in Andhra Pradesh Gazette dated the 13th July, 1972 making certain amendment to the rules relating 3TB®RT sm r T^rrrsr to selection of candidates for the m fcm wx ^ an i srm # wzi i posts included in the District Cadre, together with an expla- w fswifr: STPH 5TT5 «Ft natory note. *$«TT, 3/TT ' • • (b) Four statements explaining reasons as 3t ct w : an* mrnrr, u m t to why the above Notifications could not be laid before the State Legisla- i ture. (Interruptions) (c) Four statements explaining the reasons MR. SPEAKER : I am not permitting for not laying the Hindi versions of the anybody. Please sit down. If, by shout- above Notifications. [Placed in Lib- ing, anything can be made stronger ? No. rary. See No. LT- 5063/73] Please sit down. SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU (Diamond SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU • I have Harbour) : On a point of order. Why raised the point----- this long delay in laying the papers on the MR. SPEAKER : Order, please. Table of the House *> (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : When there is a long delay, for more than 15 days, it should be MR.SPEAKER : I am getting it enquired. accompanied by some explanation. I am going to send it to him. SHRI ANNAS AH EB P. SHINDE • The SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU : What is the reasons have been laid down. explanation. MR. SPEAKER: He has given the SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU : Not in all explanation. cases. SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU : He is flout- ing. (*t?TT) : *sfr MR. SPEAKER : No, no. He has given zRTCtT *TRf I the explanation. They have been given to nnftsnrT# | i the office. They will all be sent to you. ^ ^ i? gsfft ^ ^ SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU ; That* you. •••• Sir. 27 Papers Laid MAY 14, 1973 Messages from RJS. 28 ANNUAL REPORTS OF l.l.T., KHARAGPUR, the Table a. copy each of the following papers NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF FOUNDRY & FORGE (Hindi and English versions) under sub- TECHNOLOGY RANCHI, 1971*72 AND CERTI- section (1) of section 619-A of the Companies FIED ACCOUNTS OF I.I.T., KANPUR, Act, 1956 *OR 1970-71 (i) Review by the Government on the THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE working of the National Instruments MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND SO- and Ophthalmic Glass Limited, CIAL WELFARE AND IN THE DEPART- Calcutta, for the year 1971*72. MENT OF CULTURE (SHRI D. P. YADAV) : I beg to lay on the Table — (ii) Annual Report of the- National In- struments and Ophthalmic Glass Li- (1) (i) A copy of the Annual Report of mited, Calcutta for the year 1971-72 the Indian Institute of Technology, along with the Audited Accounts and Kharagpur, for the year, 1971-72. the comments of the Comptroller and Auditor-General thereon. (ii) A statement (Hindi and English [Placed in Library. See No. LT.- versions) explaining the reasons 5067/73] for not laying the Hindi versions of the above Report simultane- ously. 12 *03 hrs. [Placed in Library. See No. LT- 5064/73] MESSAGES FROM RAJYA SABHA (2) (i) A copy of the Annual Report of SECRETARY : Sir, I have to report the National Institute of Foundry the following messages received from the and Forge Technology, Ranchi, Secretary of Rajya Sabha - for the the year 1971-72. (i) *1 am directed to inform the Lok (ii) A statement (Hindi and English Sabha that the Rajya Sabha at its versions) explaining the reasons sitting held on Friday, the 4th May. for not laying the Hindi version 1973, adopted the following motion of the above Report simultane- regard to the Committee on Public ously. Accounts :— [Placed in Library. See No. LT- “That this House concurs in the 5065/73]. recommendation of the Lok Sabha that the Rajya Sabha do agree to (3) (i) A copy of the certified Accounts nominate seven members from the (Hindi and English versions) of Rajya Sabha to associate with the the Indian Institute of Technology, Committee on Public Accounts Kanpur for the year 1970-71 of the Lok Sabha for the term along with the Audit Report ending on the 30th April 1974, thereon, under sub-section (4) and do proceed to elect, in such of section 33 of the Institutes of manner as the Chairman may Technology Act, 1961. direct, seven members from among the members of the House to 2. Shri Lai K. Advan! (i) Rt. Pa r i s i a n ’s appl ication t o 3. Shri U. N. Mahida WORLD COURT ON 7 Hr Qt IFSTJON OF THE PRISONERS Or WAR 4. Shnmati Purabi Mukhopadhyay SHRI S. M. BANERJEE (Kanrui) : 5. Shri Suraj Prasad.’ With your permission, 1 should like to raise one issue. The Pakistan Government has moved the World Court on the question ASSENT TO BILLS of prisoners of war. Their contention is that India should not hand 'over these SECRETARY : Sir, 1 also lay on the prisoners of war who are accused of Table following two Bills passed^by the genocide, ...... rape, arson and other Houses of Parliament during the currcnt crimes by BangJa Desh Governments. session and since assented to :— They arc going to delay the settlement (1) The Financc Bill, 1973. of this issue by referring this mattei to the World Court. The newspaper report says • (2) The Orissa State Legislature (Dele- “A statement issued by the World gation of Poweis) Bills, 1973. Court said the case concerned a number of Pakistan nationals taken 12 04 fare. prisoner by the Indian Armed Forces LEAVE OF ABSENCE FROM SITTINGS in 1971 and now held in India. OF THE HOUSE It is said to appear fiom a 'joint statement put out on 17th April, 1973. MR. SPEAKER : The Committee on by India and Bangla Desh that the Absence of members from the Sittings of Indian Government proposes to hand the House in their Tenth Report have re- these prisoneis ovet to the Govern- commended that leave of absence be ment of Bangla Dcsu and that the latter 2—M416LSS/73 31 Matters under MAY 14, 1973 Rule 377 32 [Shri S. M. Banerjee] (ii) HARASSMENT OF AGRICULTURISTS intends to try them for acts of geno- BY BANKS IN TBLANGANA tide and crimes against humanity.... the statement said ; Pakistan was SHRI MALUKARJUN (Medak); It is contending that only Pakistan had extremely painflil to note the conditions in the right to exercise jurisdiction Telangana, in these conditions the agricul- over these persons by virtue of the turists have had to face unparalleled barass- 1948 Geneva convention on the ment by the banks. It is true that the State prevention and punishment of the Bank of Hyderabad and other district co- crime of guiocide.” operative banks and agricultural credit societies have been advancing loans to the ' The Bangla Desh Foreign Minister Dr. agriculturists. Kainal Hossain, according to press reports, described as the latest ‘stunt* of Pakistan Now, they are pressing for the recovery. the application made by Islamabad to the Drought conditions arc prevailing; famine is world Court seeking to prevent the transfer prevailing and there is no drinking water. of prisoners of war from India to Bangla Even cattle are dying. There is no fodder Dash for trial. The report goes on : available. People are moving from one village to another. Under these prevailing “He told newsman at the Foreign circumstances, why are the Banks pressing Office that by doing so Pakistan for the recovery of loans in spite of the fact was merely seeking to divert attention that the agriculturists have made repeated and heep 'those who had committed' representations to the Government of Andhra the worst atrocities Justice would, Pradesh. I do not know why the Advisers to the Governors are not attending to the nevertheless, take its course, he needs of these agriculturists. Irresponsible addod” attitude of the Advisers towards agricul- I expected a statement ftom the hon. [ turists in Telangana is highly deplorable. Minister of External Affairs. 1 expected 1 make a humble submission in this House him to bd present because I sent a slip on one more thing. Just now the Home on Friday itself. The Minister of Parli- Minister is only available. Both the Finance amentary Affairs is not hetu The Minister and the Minister of State for Agri- External Affairs Minister should be asked culture have left the House. I feel that these to make a statement as early as possible, Ministers, by mutual consultation, should today or tomorrow. On this question under take some measures to instruct the Bank no circumstances should we be bullied people in order to avoid the harassment in by Pakistan, and Bangla Desh should be Telangana. After all, the agriculturists are consulted in this matter. under very heavy stresses and strains. After some time they will probably be able to pay SHRI SAMAR GUHA (Contai) : the loan with interest. After all, these loans It is a very serious matter in the sense that are given to the agriculturists for their it amounts to a violation of the Simla Pact. Pakistan is trying to have some kind of in- betterment when they are in great difficulties jection to stop us sending some persons for due to famine etc. in regular way. being tried in Bangla Desh The Indo-Bangla MR. SPEAKER : You just draw the Desh joint communique mentions the attention of the Minister and do not make a details about the release of prisoners of war speech. Kindly sit down. and exchanging of civilians on both sides SHRI MALL1KARJUN : Why should {of Pakistan and Bangla Desh which was they press for the recovery ? They are appreciated all over the world as a humanit- arian move. What steps do the Government issuing notices for the recovery of the loans and to auction their land. Is this a service propose to take in this matter ? Are they to the society ? Lastly, Sir, I request the also going to contest the matter in the hon. Minister to instruct the two‘Advisers, World court ? We want the Minister of against whom I have framed allegations External Affairs to make a statement for having not attended to their problems* as early as possible clarifying the whole to do the needful in the matter. position and the stand of the Government of India in this matter. MR. SPEAKER : Shri Bosu. 33 Disc, m Pay VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (&41C.4) Commission's Report 34 (tit) RBPORTBD COT IN RICE QUOTA FOR I would only request you to make this CALCUTTA, DURGAPOR, ETC. half-an-hour discussion a two-hour discus* sion. We are even prepared to sit upto SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU (Diamond 8 O' clock. I would beg of you to allow Harbour) : Sir, I have given two notices. two hours for the discussion so that both the 1 am grateful to you for having allowed one. motions might be discussed simultaneously, You have sent the other to the Minister. That is concerning... MR. SPEAKER : I have no objection if they are prepared for the debate. But MR. SPhHML : Do not mention the they are not prepared for it. name. I haw BS f allowed that. SHRI S. M. BANERJEE : If they are (Interruptions) prepared for half-an hour-discussion why MR. SPEAKER : I did not allow it. are they ([not prepared for a full discussion ? Don’t do it. You can speak only on the What is the logic in that ? matter which I have allowed. MR. SPEAKER : He is repeating the same argument today. I have discusscd SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU : The other this with him. As I said, I have no objec- one is this. According to newspaper re- tion, even if it is for the whole night; if the ports (Times of India, New Delhi, dt. 13-5-73, Government agree to it. page 5), the rice quota for Calcutta, Durgapur- Asansol belt, Darjeeling and other statutory SHRI S.M.BANERJEE : lam speaking rationing area, will be reduced by 150 grammes purely logically. If the Finance Minister per adult per week from the third week of can reply to the half-an-hour discussion, this month. he can reply to a full discussion. The cut, it has been alleged, has been ne- fVW *** WWW (*%TT) : cessitated by the Centre’s failure to supply more than 25000 tonnes of rice a month, "f'JTdT f> 'STR^fT W against the requirement of 35000 tonnes to meet the commitment in respect of statutory rationing areas. May 1 request your good- % arrc *rrc ^rr srsrrft +‘4*rfafi: self to ask the hon. Minister to mike a r | i statement in regard to this? MR. SPEAKER : I want to know fiom MR. SPEAKER : Now I go over to the the Minister of Pailiamentary Affairs the next business. position of the Government. Shri Banerjee is asking for a full debate instead of a half-an-hour discussion. 12 14 hrs. TI IE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY RE. DISCUSSION ON PAY COMMISSION’S AFFAIRS (SHRI K. RAGHU RAMAIAH) : REPORT I had a talk with the Finance Minister on SHRI S. M. BANERJEE (Kanpur) : Sir, this point. As Shri Banerjee himself stated about to-day’s order paper, I have one sub- the other day, this half-an-hour discussion mission to make. In to-day’s order piper, is on a different aspect. It is only incidental. the last item is half-an-hour discussion on SHRI SAMAR GUHA (Contai) : Sir. the Pay Commission’s Report. on a point of order___ (Interruptions) We were told that the Finance Minister MR. SPEAKER : On that day I gave a was unable to discuss that. He is not pre- lot of latitude. Now all of them are stand- pared to give any commitment in this regard. ing up again. We request that the motion in my name as SHRI SAMAR GUHA : Sir, on a point also in the names of others be extended to of order___(Interruptions) two hours. Let the Minister not commit himself this way or that way. Will the hon. MR. SPEAKER : If he wants to make a Minister reply to this half-an-hour discus- submission, why should he say that it is a sion ? He may only say 'yes* or ‘no’ to piont of order ? Let him say that it is a the House. submissi on .. (Interruptions) 35 Disc.jm pay MAY 14, 1973 Commission'* Report 3 6 (Mr. Speaker] MR. SPEAKER: Older, please. You believe, by shouting everything is settled. ?ft |TR g fa 3 TO-m That is wrong. tore ^ fftr *r*fr SHRI PILOO MODY (Godhra) : You ^ ^ ^ i ^ w direct the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs !wrr? to convey the feelings of the House to the ' SHRI S. M. BANERJEE : The last item Finance Minister once again aadhtp tell him of today’s order paper is half-an-hour dis* that he must accept a discuggj^B&i the Pay cussion regarding request by Confederation Commission’s Report. of Central Government Officers’ Association to the Prime Minister for a fair scrutiny of SHRI K. RAGHU RAMAIAH : I shall the Pay Commission’s Report. This is certainly convey. exactly what we want When the Finance SHRI SAMAR GUHA: I wanted to Minister replies to the half-an-hour discus- sion he will have to say either “yes” or raise a point of order. “no”. So, why should he restrict it to half- fan hour ? Just now, the hon. Minister said that this Half-an-hour Discussion is not directly MR. SPEAKER : Then why do you on the Pay Commission’s Report but it is restrict it to two hours ? Why not ask for incidental to the Report. Look at the word- a full debate ? ing of it. It says SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Alipore) : “regarding request by Confederation * That is what he has been asking all these of Central Government Officers’ Associ- days. ation to the Prime Minister for fair SHRI K. RAGHU RAMAIAH: As scrutiny of Pay Commission’s Report.” soon as this matter arose in the BAC, I consulted the Finance Minister and I put This is exactly our demand also— before him the views expressed by some of the hon* Members in the Committee. The MR. SPEAKER: This is not a point Finance Minister was of the view, as I men- of order. tioned the other day, that since Government are examining the report, it is premature to SHRI SAMAR GUHA : I have raised a have any discussion here. very valid point SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : Then how SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : Don’t you was the half-an-hour discussion allowed 7 feel that before the Government takes a MR, SPEAKER : It is no use insisting final decision on the Report, the House on it. should be allowed to express its views. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : Ifthe Minis- ter can reply to the half-an-hour discussion, SHRI SAMAR GUHA : The Govern- he can as well reply to a two-hour debate. ment should hear our views. That will I do not understand what is the principle help the Government to reach proper con- involved here. clusions. Therefore, in what we demand and what the Half-an-hour Discussion is SHRI S. M. BANERJEE : You can ex- about, there is no contradiction.... tend it to tomorrow by 1 • hours. It is in your hands. (Interruptions) (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Don’t connect it with MR. SPEAKER : I am not going to allow the Half-an-hour discussion. anybody. There is no point of order. If sft gnwr W t V0W1H: tfW T SJTHTiRT you think by interrupting the proceedings of the House any useful purpose is served, sftr "spsr? 2T5RT | i snft that is wrong. You raised it last time and fr?T % T farPnif f s #3RT 11 you are doing it again. fcftt fiRfsr front | i f SHRI SAMAR GUHA : I again humbly I . . (ww«w) submit to y o u . . . 37 President Rule in VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) Manipur State Leg. 38 Manipur {Res.) and (Delegation of Powers) Bill MR. SPEAKER: You said, it was a is also going to earn us a large amount point of order. It is not at all a point of foreign exchange. order. Don’t misuse the right to raise a Manipur is strategically located—in the point of order. You can make ‘a submission. extreme corner of the eastern part of our country. And unless the Central Govern- SHRI SAMAR GUHA : You have not ment makes the people of Manipur happy heard me. Just now, the Minister of Parli- amentary Affairs said that the Half-an and contented, the people there will Hour Discussion is not directly on not have faith in the Government, and the Report but it is only incidental to it. being a border State, we need the support He said that the Government is examining of the people there to safeguard and defend our borders. the Report. But the wording of the Half-an Hour Discussion is : I would like to know the real situation . .for fair scrutiny of Pay Comm- obtaining in Manipur. The Manipurians ission^ Report.” are the pawns in the political game of cheas Is it incidental to the Report? Is it not in the hands of the ruling Congress party. directly on the Report itself ? They do not Instead of performing the duties of a referee, permit u& to have a discussion on it the Central Government has been partisan because it is under examination. But towards tho ruling Congress party. here is the Half-an-Hour Discussion on The interests of the ruhag party are always the “scrutiny of Pay Commission’s kept m the forefront. The Governor, Mr. Report”, Is there any difference between B. K. Nehru, recommended suspension “examination” and “scrutiny” ? Is of Manipur Assembly, But this recommen- not what the minister says contradictory dation was not accepted by the President. and self-defeating? As the Orissa Assembly was dissolved a couple of days before, they never SHRI VASANT SATHE (Akola) : What wanted the Manipur Assembly also lo be is the point of order ? dissolved. The Government was a bit scared MR. SPEAKER : I have not been able that the public opinion would go against to follow. them; the Central Government was scared of the scathing criticism that might come from all sides of public opinion if they were 12 24 hrs STATUTORY RESOLUTION RE: to suspend the Manipur Assembly while PROCLAMATION IN RELATION TO they had dissolved the Orissa Assembly. THE STATE OF MANIPUR The Home Minister has already stated in this House that the Government did AND so against the advice of the Manipur MANIPUR STATE LEGISLATURAE Governor, to put an end to all kinds of (DELEGATION OF POWERS) BILL— Contd. political horse trading I would like the Minister to tell this House whether the MR. SPEAKER: We now take up Governor was not aware of this while further discussion on the Statutory Resol- recommending suspension of the ution and the Manipur Stale Legislature Assembly. If he were to peipetuate (Delegation of Powers) Bill. political horse-trading by recommending SHRI. MOIIANRAJ KALINGARAYAR suspension, he would havo to be lemoved (pollachi) : MR SPEAKER, Sir, the from the Governorship without delay. Was approval of this House is being the Governor of Manipur ignorant of the sought through this Resolution for political precedents which took place in the proclamation of the President's Rule other States like Orissa, Uttar Pradesh in Manipur. Haryana, West Bengal, Rajasthan, I rise to express my views on the Reso- Punjab. Madhya Piadash and Mysore 9 lution. If the Central Government takes Either ho should have been ignorant effective and energetic steps to improve of these revolting political defections or the tourist potential of Manipur, I believe he should have been influenced by the that Manipur, a beautiful place, would Centre when he recommended the suspen- become a second Kashmir. This is not only sion. On both the counts tus action deserves going to attract thousands of tourists but it severe condemnation. 3 9 Presidents Rule in MAY 14, 1973 Manipur State U g. 4 0 Manipur (Res.) and (Delegation o f Powers) Bill [SHRI M OHANRAJ KALXNGARAYARJ Pwrnwf ^ ip? I, therefore, demand his resignation t o t t *rcaft *rr ^ | i on this ground that, by recommending suspension, he wanted to serve the inter* * im *rrc v t % f a t f m ^ ^ qfcara?T ^ s c r f x t f k f o m ^rrar, jfmr 1948 ^ % ?iw# | i s f k tf*rs?T «f?V * 3 ^ft 3P5T cW |, stft cR^ ^rnff % sft w m arftRT?: ^ sfm fasrpr n v m i % # f ^ str #' *ft TOfrrr tfr ^ ot % «fk ^HK ?r?r #' ^ rw r^ r^ firfa SFTTT Mf^TfTC 3RrtT *nf^# f a ^IFTffcIT 5»r ?rt#f fasrR ?n^raT % srffV t o f t t o i S fa * S v TOrajr ^rr ?t t ?rfr i s tf it t^ t f — jw t r m i «^t ^m w , wr # cT^farr -~^fa ^ 'Fvpfhr tfwnsff ^TRRTar, w t ftw ^ t fa?r #' ’trrr «ft President Rule in VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA.) Manipur State Leg. Ma11ipur (Res.) and (Delegation of Powers) Bill 42 �n: �, �full'�+rro wr �r �, it� ft.fit� : �T [Shri S. Mohan Kumaramangalam] Mining rules had therefore to be tight- It is well-known that coal is really the fined up. Gradually controls were introduced crucial source of mineral wealth in our but even then, the measures of control are country. We have in our country proved only being circumvented and the owners resources of somewhere in the region of by themselves have done very little to 8-1/2 billion tonnes of non-coking coal and cooperate in the policy of greater safety in another IS billion tonnes indicated, 5 billion coalmines and the conservation of good tonnes of coal from captive mines, and quality coal. 7-1/2 billion tonnes of inferred resources. This shows the enormous wealth of coal which we have in our country and this is All that the private sector .of the industry asks now is : Take away the irksome con- apart from the metallurgical coal reset ves trols, allow us to increase the price of coal, which alone amount to somewhere in the don’t ask us to pay the labour angthing region of 13 billion tonnes. 1 do not think more and promise that you will not take at this stage it is necessary for me to go into our mines away from us, and in return, a detailed discussion of the reasons which we shall open mines and close them as moved the Government to take over the we think best, produce coal in the manner mines in the private sector. I will content that suits us best and give the country myself on this occasion by metely giving coal to meet the requirements of the two quotations, one from the Burrow future.” Committee repoit of 1937 which described the coal trade like this : This is what the Coal Commissioner said some 20 years ago : “The coal trade in India has been rather like a race in which profit has ‘i f nationalisation is postponed by always come in first, with safety a pooi 25 years and the industry is given a free second, sound methods, and ‘also ran, hand there will be little left at the end of and national welfare ‘a dead horse’ en- the period for ther country to take over. tered perhaps but never likely to start .. We will be left with a number of units Neither the Government nor landlords which, if not affected by underground can escape responsibility for allowing this fires, and other hazardous conditions state of affairs to prevail for so long, but would be uneconomic to work. At that this does not alter the facts, nor still will stage, the prospects of nationalised mines it justify further inaction on the part of producing the requirements of the country all concerned.'* at a fair cost will be remote and the chances of nationalisation not succeeding This was wiitten in a report ol a committee will be greater.” set up by the Government of India some 36 years ago. 17 years later, the Coal Commis- sioner of the Government of India gave i lequest hon. Members when discussing evidence before the Estimates Committee this Bill and the performance of the Coal- of the Lok Sabha and he stated : mines authorities during the three months of the take-over, to keep in mind this “Almost upto 1939, when regulation warning of the Coal Commissioner. It is 77 of the Indian Coal Mines Regulation a very difficult situation which we face on came in^o force, the producers of coal the coal front. It is necessary that wo had an absolutely free hand in producing should keep in mind the very serious pro- coal from wherever they could and in any blems which faced us ever since the take manner they thought best. During this over. Sedulous and conscious attempts period of absolute laisse Jaire profit was have been made by enemies of nationalisa- the primary consideration, safe methods tion to discredit the actual working of were in the picture only here and there the coal-mines after nationalisation. and national interests were completely Attempts were made to discredit than quite forgotten. The industry and the country consciously and very recently in Delhi today arc lo-day paying the pricc for this ruth- as weli as day-before-yesterday, they have less and haphazard exploitation of this resorted to giving facts, in newspapers which rational wealth during those days — are, to put it mildly, contrary to the truth 61 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Natio11alisatio11) Bill 62 This Bill is to complete the vesting of the The general scheme so far as payment of ownership of the mines in the Central compensation is concerned is : Firstly, the Government. When I moved the Bill for the amount has been computed really taking take over of the management a couple of into relation the value of the assets on the months ago that was only for vesting of one hand and the value of the stocks on the management. This is the Bill that really other. Secondly, that against this amount completes that process. After this Bill is of compensation the dues of the workers' passed into law in Parliament, it will mean provident fund and wages will receive first that all the mines, the title and interest of priority; then comes secured creditors and the owners whose names are given in the finally after the amounts advanced by the Schedule, will vest in the Central Govern Central Government during the period of ment free from all encumbrances with effect management and the State Governments from1-5-1973. will come the unsecured creditors. I think this is a fair method of disposing of the I do not want to go into details. But I matter. wish to point out one or two salient points. We have stipulated that in accordance with Hon. Members will appreciate that we the provision 31(2) of the Constitution have been having during this period of three payment of compensation will be made. months, that is to say, since January 30, The amount that is to be paid in cash.. will an organisation called the Coal Mines be something like Rs. 30 crores. It includes Authority headed by a Custodian General whatever might be the value of the stocks and assisted by Additional and Deputy on hand as well as the value of the assets. Custodian Generals and other officers who It was really a herculean task performed by have been running these taken-over mines. officers of the Coalmines Authority and the Most of these officers are from the National Department of Mines to perform this task Coal Development Corporation or Bharat and make a correct assessment and I may say Coking Coal and some of them are from that they have made a fair and honest Coal Board and the Directorate General assessment of the value of the assets. Mines Safety. Qualified mining engineers have been in position as Managers. Some These 30 crores are not going to be paid of them are from the private sector but the out immediately to m.ineowners. All that supervision is in the hands of the officers we have provided in these provisions, which who have come from these different public are of great importance, is this. All the sector organisations or government organi moneys payable to owners will be deposited sations. with the Commissioner of Payments, who is responsible for disbursing these amounts After the Bill is passed into Law we payable to each owner. Before disbursing propose to have a different structurebecau�e he will first consider all the claims made by certam no longer will the question be one of creditors against the owners of these coal officers operating on behalf of the govern mines and on:y after the claims of these nageme�t ment and using powers of ma persons and liabilities are satisfied will be but 1t that have been vested in government disburse these to the owners. nent will be a question of setting up a per_ma that will exercise the rights of We have said that as far as workers are organisation and control of the gov�rnment concerned, highest priority, even over secu ownership . to it that coai production 1s devel· red, creditors, is being given in respect of and see effectively. certain categories of workmen's dues, that is oped to say provid�nt fund dues on the one hand ;1e ha:e position as it stan�s t?day and arrears of wages on the other. These The ex1s· public sector orgamsations m dues will be recovered in the first instance three Cor ence-the National Coal Development from the amounts specified in the schedule t tonnes . n produced 16 million against the owner of the coal mines. Then porat which and employes about 60,000 comes the secured creditors the amounts of coair 1972-73 I� The Bharat Coking Coal produced advanced by the Central Government and work ers, , 000 nnes and emp1 oy�s 1 26, dues in respect of royalty etc. Finally, will 12·72 m. to Singareni collieries which produced come the unsecured creditors who have no and finally and employes 32,700 workers. real prior claim on this money. s m. tonnes 3-M416LSS/73 63 Coal Min** MAY 14, lf7 3 (Naiienatmikm) M 64 {Shri S. Mohan Kumaramangalaml •hall be patting forward before ike Coal O ur assessment is the coal production of Mines Authority. the mines which are included in What is Our idea is that the headquarters of the called Coal Mines Authority is about 40 m. Coal Mines Authority will be located in Cal- tonnes and the number of employees will cutta. 1 want to make this quite clear be in the region of 2 lakhs. The idea is right now, because here has bsan a lot of set-up a unified organisation leaving aside demand from different States where coal Bharat Coking Coal on the one hand happens to be mined that the headquarters because it is closely linked to Steel plants should be in this State or that State. But and Singareni Collieries on the other. Sing- I think hon. Members here, will be able to areni Collieries is an oragnisation in which take a much broader view of the whole the Andhra Government has got the major position and appreciate that since coal is share-holding and which covers the colli- being mined on a substantial scale in seven eries only in that area. So far as the rest of different States, although the main ones the country is concerned we intend to have are really three, that is to sav, Bengal, Bihar a separate Corporation probably it will and Madhya Pradesh, Calcutta is the com- be called Coal Mines Authority Ltd. which mercial centre from which coal-mining com- will include within it the National Coal panies have operated before, tfhers accessi- Development Corporation as a separate bility from the point of view of the coal subsidiary of the Coal Mines Authority. mines is the maximum, and in addition a This Coal Mines Authority will really cover large number of the cmployei* who wire the coal mines in Assam—which will be put working in the head offices of the different under a separate General Manager; then the coal-mining concerns also arc working in Raniganj-A^ansol area, the Bihar area, which Calcutta. So, from every pouit of view, together with Talecherin Orissa and Sing- 1 think it is the proper place where the head- rauli coal fields will be under the National quarters of the Coal Mining Authority Coal Development Corporation then finally should be. the Madhya Pradesh andjMaharashtra area. This is broadly that division the 1 we want Of course, the headquarters of the NCDC to bring about when we set up the new which after this Bill is passed into law and organisation after this Bill becomes law. the new company has been set up which will be a subsidiary of the Coal Mining Autho- rity, will continue to b_' at R mic'v , and we shall have the headquarters of tiu cistern Naturally, the responsibilities of the new division, that is to say, the division which Coal Mines Authority when it is set up will looks after the Raniganj coalfield*, very like- be very important and we shall have to see ly In the Raniganj coalfields themselves, that adequate power is granted to the autho- and the headquartci ^ so far a> the western rity to enable it to discharge its responsi- division is concerned, namely thj Midhya bilities. Briefly, the objectives before this Pradesh-Maharashtra area, somewhere in authority would be : to formulate and re- that area. We have not >ci taken a final commend to Government a national policy d'cision about the actual location of these, for tlic conservation, development and what mav be called, divisional headquarters. scientific utilisation of the coal resources of the country; to act as the entrepreneur on It is the intention to provide to the maxi- behalf of the State in rcspect of the coal mum extent decentralisation and delegation industry and plan and organise the produc- of powers so that in effect these different tion of coal; to operate on sound commer- divisional headquarters including the NCDC will operate like subsidiary companies of a cial principles and ensure utilisation of capa- city in the various projects; to see that the big holding company. But the real objective in all these cases is to give maximum ini- price is reasonable both from the point of tiative to the divisional organisations so as view of the consumer as well as from the to enable them to build up coal production point of view of the producer; and then to as rapidly as possible in the coming period. functinns as an employer who is realty able to make up for all the sins that have been Hon. Members are aware of the fact that committed against the workers in the coal- we have got a stupendous task on the coal mining area over a these years. These front before us, and we have got to build briefly are the main objectives which we up the production from something tike 6 5 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 66 70 million tonnes as it was in 1971-72 and 75 transport facilities are not as good at thfy to 76 million tonne* as we expect it to be in might be. That is why sometimes we have 1972-73, and we have got to take it up ta had a certain shortage. But I would like over 140 million tonnes or probably 141 to mention, particularly because I think it 10 142 million tonnes in 1978-79. A parti- i& much better to deal with concrete things cularly rapid increase that we have to aim rather than in general, that recently there at is in the Central India coalfields and the has been a spate of information supplied ‘Singrauli Coalfields and the western belt in the press which does not actually relate of Bihar, if one may so call it, because of the to facts at all. Today, for instance, we -enormous pressure on rail traffic in the havj a headline in one of the leading news- Bengal-Bihar area, so that what we shall papers in Delhi that 20 thermal power sta- ultimately hope is that we shall be able to, tions have been hit by shortage of coal. white increasing rapidly the production in Now out of the power stations that are -the Bengal-Bihar area itself very substantially mentioned, ii is incorrect to mention four in this period, have an even more rapid at all. There was no closure in four of increase in this area. them IV want of coal. 1 can give the names : Tiom'UN, Patli, Paras and Bho- For this purpose, it will obviously be saval. On; unit of the Nasik power station quite imoossible for us to be able to move was closed for one day in view of shortage forward if ws do not give adequate authority of coal. If you add tho total pioduction to the local management of each division, of all the other power stations mentioned— the area management of each division, [ have not had time to check un on all to enable them to exercise initiative and push these —it comes to an installed capacity of up production fast. 57 MW in a total installed thermal capacity I would like, before I sit down, to take a in the count! y of about 9,000 MW. namely couplc of minutes on th: p/os^nt pnfot- half pjioent of the total production. The mance of the Coal Mines Authority. During coal requirunents of these small power .sta- 1972-73. we expect that the total pioduction tions i> in the region of about 0 I million of coal will reach the all-time record of some- tonne-, out of the: tot'll icquircmcnts of all where in the region of 76 to 76.5 million thermil }v >avi plmt., of 20 million tonnes. tonnes, surpassing the previous record of As a mtuer or f ict. between 1971-72 and 75.7 million tonnes in 1969-70. The tempo 1972-7% ws have met cased the dehveiy of production after the takeover has not to thermal power slat tons, and theiefore, only been maintained, but has actually then con-.umotion fion 17 m'llion tonnes to improved. In February, the total pro- 19 million tonnjs, tint is tn say. by about duction of the C'tal IVfin^s Authority was 2- million t >nne. compared to 19^1-72. 3.45 million tonnes and m March 3.73 million tonne-., a* against 3.01 million tonnes So ii i\ not tme reallv to say that there in February 1972 and 3.2 f million tonnes in has bw'cn any s^ious crisis of anv sort in March, 1972. Tn April 197V imfoitunately, t clanon to p >w\jr stations No doubt on production lias dropped a little compared occasion, tlur' have haen ceitain difficul- to March to 3.42 million tonne?. But ties m powe'- stations That is to a consi- this is, to a considerable extent, due tv) dered/ «;xtem due to dislocation of rail frequent power cuts that have taken place movement, probably because of diversion on that area holding up work in the mines for othei pu:po»e> of the use of wagons, We have had as much as 20 to 22 trippingson stiikes that have taken place on certain a single day and occasionally wc have had occasion; is far example, in Ratlam where even a whole shift not being able to operate there was a strike which dislocated the due to difficulties in relation to nower. delivery of coal to the Rajasthan power stations and so on. But with all that, I have no doubt that the actual production of coal during the last But 1 would like to emphasise that wc are thres months has not gone down. What fully aware of the importance of adequate his been reported in some sections of the supplies of coal being rushed to all thermal press is motivated and is not correct. We power stations, particularly because we have had difficulties in a number of areas, know that shortage of hydro-electric power particularly on the question of transport generation has hit the country hard. In from soms of the more remote areas where fact, a Standing Linkage Committee within 67 Coal Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill 6$ (Shri S Mohan Komaramangalam] fact also We had m another newspaper, the Joint Secietary in the Department of lust a couple of days ago, a threo-dumn Mmas in charge of coal as the Chairman headline saying “Delhi heading for a big has been set up, with the Mtmbet, Thermal power crisis”, and a sub-headline, “Dwind- Power of the CWPC, the Director of ling coal supply may hit generating Units." Traffic, Ministry of Railways as well as offi- Immediately, I investigated the position and cers from coal producing orgamsatins, as the next day, therefore, comes, not of members What the Committee does is not course in a prominent place because that merely to fix up linkages but also to draw would not serve the purpose of those who up monthly programmes for edch power like to portray this entire affair as they like, station m the country A control room has another headline saying “no danget of been set up m the Ministry of Railways power crisis in the capital,” and adding that where we are in a position really to answer “the Delhi Electric Supply Undertaking questipns daily how much is the stock m has ten days’ coal supply in hand and there every power station A> a result, to is no dingei of any immediate power crisis, a large extent we were able to meet according to Mr B C Car lappa, Genet al tne demands* of the power stations Managei of the Delhi Electric Supply For instance, though a veiy lurid picture has Undeitaking’ He says “that the gene- been given again m the rcpoit in the press rating Units are already functioning nor- this morning, about the position regarding mally and only one of them, in Rajkot, the Ennore and Basin Bridge power stations, has been shut down for inspection and I think hon Members would be interested to periodicil ovoihaul, and Jndraprastha was kno v that the present coal stock in Lnnorc a little low due to shortage of Oiade II oi is sufficient for seven days and in Basin Giadc III coal and so on and tho Bhaiat Budge, 25 dajs Theic is no question of Coal Mine-, may make up, etc 1 am only any danger of these power stations m nny- bringing this to the notice of the hon Mem- way closing down despite the fict that— beis because it is my belid that theic is and I would like to emphasise this—m quite a conscious propaganda, sedulously Ennore. the coal required is subst tntially cultivated piopij,anda to discredit the morv thin last yeat, now, a third 110 mw decision of Government m taking over station is being commissioned this month the eoalm les three months ago Or tut and the coal requirement has now gone up wise we will not get these big headl nes neatl> twice, to 1 10,000 tonnes t month which s-jsm to poitiay that theic is amajoi Still wt. should be ible to manage it and wc coal ci isi in the country due to tae i »ke t ver will man ige it because we arc conscious of of coal Of cou se what else would it be the m that is there ind how impor- due to' Ani yet, when we imestigate the tant it is for the south fact in these allegations, —and to use woids with all the s>bnety at my command we 1 c m give anothot example Take, fot find tint th„> aic actai'lv ialse, and t‘ut insttncj Nasik N i.ik, last year, b> the there is no tiulh in tlu-m at all iheie is ordmiry installed capacity noun', ot 280 so lie tiutii in st ne ficts, theic is no tiuth mw Mtion, needed about 70,000 tonnes in m n lacts and this I think, tho h m a m nth But bccvusc oi drought in that Meubers will beai with me when I defend area it h is stepped up its production ind is the iction of the coal mine mthoiity m the consuming at the rate of 90000 tonnes a m mne 1 li ive don< m)nth and would lik ' to hive some more if wc can give it N UuwiHy, wc have Nb J > ibt wj i i iv 14 iifTLulties, parti- difficulty m being able to push up beyond culaily m relation to thi domestic consumers tint, bwwiuse we have phnned on the basis on the one hand, and the brick burning on of being able to deliver 70,000 tonnes a the othei This is a difficulty oi what may month So, even when wc are faced with be called the low pnonty sectois on the one these difficulties, I think the coal mining hand and secondly, in the distribution sys- authority and the railways have done a good tem itself we are having so many problems. job m attempting to solve the crisis that has The deiler is not playing flair because in an been repeatedly facing us in this area atmosphere of scarcity he wants to make the maximum money that he can But we Then one final mention may be made. are attempting to see how soon we can get Hon Members I think will appreciate this over it. 69 Coal M inn VAJSAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 70 I would only bring lion. Members back ciriticism, if at all, can be made, that it to th© warning given by the Coal Com- came something like a quarter of a century missioner nearly 20 years ago that when you too late. I would commend this Bill to the do nationalise you ate going to face a great House that it be adopted. number of problems and probably problems which you will not be able to tackle at all. MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Motion That was the gloomy Cassandta-likc pro- moved : phecy made so long ago. I can only claim, “That the Bill to provide for the acqui- I think, that it lm not been as bad as that. sition and transfer of the right, title and But we have had difficulties and wc are ini jrest of the owners in respect of the coal going to have them. But I would ask fui mines specified in the Schedule with a the co-operation of all hon. Member of view to re-organising and reconstructing all parties in seeing to it that we ajo able to such coal mines so as to ensure the ratio- solve thews problems as the> come up one nal, co-ordinated and scientific develop- after the other. ment and utilisation of coal resources consistent with the growing requirements The piobluus arc not easy piublcni1 but of the country, in order that the‘owner- they are problems that can be sohed. I ship and control of such resources are th»nk that if we give our full suppoit to the vested in the State and thereby so distri- oigamsation, to the managers and the buted as best to subserve the common workers we shall be able to go ahcud with goodj and for matters connected therewith or {ndicate^) thereto, be taken into consi- them. deration.”' ( It w.il take us sometime to make the SHRI ROBIN SEN (Asansof; : Sir, organisation settle down After all we are I consider this Bill to be inadequate to meet taking over at one stroke something like the purpose of nationalisation unless some 600 coalmines and trying to bring them basic changes are made in it, the Bill, as under a single organisation with a single it u>, may prove to be self-defeating Despite leadership There are problems m doing official propaganda euologising the measure this. I have been in organisation; like the as a big step towards socialism, the Bill Ind (Shri Robin Sen] It is also an admitted fact that just after the M*m . take-over, many casual workers, temporary workers and the workers employed under the- la spite of these crimes, the Govern- contractor have been thrown out of their ment h proposing in this Bill to pay a hand* employment, because, their names were not some compensation to these miae-owners to found on the muster rolls. I demand that the extent of Rs. 35.36 crores—a prize for these workers should be taken back and they all thiir misdeeds! I am sure that the should be made permanent. burden of this compensation will fall upon the people. Sir, I strongly oppose the The new custodians were senior officials section which provides compensation to under the former mine-owners. Some of the mine-owners. 1 suggest that this section the custodians of collieries are tampering should be deleted and substituted by a new with the assets and fund of the mines. Those provision in the Bill that no compensation officials who were previously responsible will be paid to the former mine-owners who for several bungling in the affairs of the coal were unscrupulous. mines are now being given new status with It is trad that there is a section in the Bill, arbitrary powers. When they attack every that is. Section 20, I think, wherein it is right of the workers the Coal Mining Autho- provided that the workers can go to the rity is just behaving like a silent spectator. court for realising their legal dues. But, I know, for instance, that a senior official of Shri Kumararaangalam knows, as f said Bengal Coal Company, who has been given before, prior to takeover at least forty collie- an important post in the Coal Mining Au- ries had been closed down by these mine- thority, has been playing havoc with the owners and they did not pay the legal dues workers. He has been creating trouble to the workers before closing down the even m the affairs of Coal Mining Authority. mines. At least 40,000 workers are un- 1 demand that there should be a provision employed for the last one year oi so. Is it in the Bill to punish these officers. possible for them to go to the court to seek remedy ? Therefore, I propose that Govern- If the Government want the efficient ment should take direct responsibility for functioning of the mines, the co-operation recovering these legal dues of thu workers. of the workers is a must. Even now in This Government can do very well by pro- many collieries, normal tude union acti- viding a >eotion in the Bill, The Govern- viitics arc not possible due to terror, repiei- ment can deduct the dues payable to the sion and indiscriminate use of M1SA. workers from the compensation or they can For instance, in Surakachar there was a recover it from the personal pronortic* and strike in the month of May. Section 144 assets of these mineowners. was promulgated and 14 workers were arrested. Those workers belonged to C1TU. In the Bill, the Government has further In order to ensure the smooth running of given up the responsibility to provide jobs the mines I demand that terrorisation to all workers employed in the coalmines should stop immediately. The CMA should prior to their takeover, ft is an admitted be democrttiscd and there should be an ad- fact that the former mineowners tempered visory committee with representatives ol with the records and included the names of Central trade unions. many anti-social elements on the muster rolls, fhey used them against trade union Lastly, I demand (hat all the casual and movements. But they removed the names of badli workers and contract workers should the genuine workers from the muster rolls. be made permanent. The contractors may It is also an admitted fact that at least 5,000 create trouble in the colliery and they may workers, during the last one year, have been also sabotage production, if this system is evicted from the collieries in the Asansol- continued. Raniganj Coal belt by the armed gangsters in collusion with the former mineworkers. In conclusion, T would like to know from These workers were not only evicted but they Shri Mohan Kumaramangalam why the were also thrown out of employment. coal-mines under the Tatas are not being There is not a single word in this Bill with nationalised. I demand strongly that these regard to these affected workers. I feel that coal-mines should also be nationalisd with- these evicted workers should be taken back. out any compensation. 73 OmI Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1995 (SAKA) (Narionafimtte*) Bill 74 MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : J know it Is perhaps, in the Third Plan, the target An important Bill. But I do not know how to of production of coal was brought down manage within the time the House has allotted. from 102 million tonnes to 96 million tonnes. Worked out on the basis of two and a half In spite of ray efforts at that time, I could hours for gemral discussion and half an not succeed in taking it up further beyond hour for clause by clause consideration, 102 million tonnes, but at any rate it should each Member will have 6 minutes, 5 minutes, Certainly have gone beyond 96 million 4 minutes, 3 minutes and even 2 minutes. tonnes of production in the fourth Plan I really do not know what they are going to period. say. Anyway, it is up to the House. The Government has given notice of certain Most unfortunately, the attention of the amendments They will be circulated. economic Ministries of the Government did not go to a basic appraisal that coal is SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMAN- the raw material mostly available to us for GALAM: They are very minor generating energy. Even the programme of amendments. They will not take much time. washeries has been neglected almost cruelly. I They are merely to correct mistakes which know that the quality of coal in our country crept in the Schedule. is not very satisfactory. But that is not a very relevant point when there is nothing MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : I do not else for us to fall back upo.i. if we had want to fight with the Members cach time. succeeded in searching for more o.l which Anyway, it is for the House to decidc. I am unfortunately wc did not do, -and w; putting it to the House. I am myself in should have put m more efiorts to search difficulty. Hhw can a Member make his oil—1 have no doubt we could have got submission in 2 minutes? some more oil; adequately or not, I am not here to say. Our efforts to increase the SOME HON MEMBERS • The time may production of coal certainly should have be extended been much more than what it is. MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER . It is up to Now, out target is 141 o- 142 million the House The Minister of Parliamentary tonnes of coal in 1978-79. Affairs is no* here. We will wait for him; this will be conveyed to him This is not sufficient I do hope that Government will raise its target if production Shi. K. D Milaviya : "and will do some rc-thinking as to what is to be done if we fail to jot oil f.on outside SHRI k . D. MALAV1YA (Domana- world. It is really very difficu’t for us to gam)- Mi. Deputy-Spe.iker, Sir, I rise to find foreign money to import as much oil extend my heartiest support to the Bill as we are acousto ned n jw to use even for which seeks to complete the process of generating power nationalisation of the coal mines by providing The Dhwaran Pjvvei Station in Gujarat for the acquisition by the Central Gov- is being run on gas as fuel which, in my ernment and transfer of the right, tille and opinion, should never be done because the interest of the owners thereof. gas of Cambay could have been diverted to much more purposeful uses. But my hon. I think, the Bill contains the clauses friend sitting on my right insisted on using gu that are needed to complete the task that and now I am told that there is no intention is set before us. There arc, however, a few of the Gujarat Government even to think of general points which have to be considered switching over from this costly raw material if one has to consider the perspective of and coming back to coal. Even if coal is entire programme of production of coal more costly to transport—andjit becomes a and to consider specially that coal should little costly at Dhwaran—, it does not foim the basis of our production programme matter because wc have plenty of coal. of our country. After all, the Tata Thermal Power Station First of all, I feel that our targets of is run on coal. What is the difficulty in production are not commensurate with Government subsidising the transport to the real need that faces us, specially to make Dhwaran or to many other places when us self-reliant. If I remember aright, coal could substitute this rather costly 7$ CowJ Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) m 76 [Shri K, D. Malaviya] then connect them all at the top by a holding material which we have to import every year company. Even where there is intensive by paying through Our nose? Therefore, production going on like Bengal and Bihar I would suggest to the Minister that his we should go down further and have inde- scheme of reorganizing production mecha- pendent small units of coalmines, not caring nism and distribution mechanism perhaps for the increase in the numbers of the mining needs to be linked to higher production. units. I personally feel that even if we The amalgamation of coal-mines is an have 100 such units, coal production will urgent problem facing us. We can do increase and efficiency will increase. Expenses it now nore smoothly on the question of are not likely to increase if we simplify the compensation also., there is a group of coal process. mines which, in my opinion, did not even deserve any compensation. There might On the question of distribution, there aje be others which were run efficiently, for already established systems like the which Government could perhaps think as railways, transport, etc. which could under- to how best we could seek their cooperation take on bchajf of Government authority in order to increase quickly the production the work of distribution. The railways, targets, and also whether it is possible to find out any means of seeking cooperation have a network of organisation and stations. from those who have experience in the They have other facilities. Perhaps private sector. they could take a good part of the distri- On the question of conservation also, bution task from the Ministry. I think that we have to pay attention as to The generation of power has to be more how best we could formulate a policy for and more progressively based on coal. conservation and to switch over from oil That can be done only if we plan fox a higher to coal to make our entire scheme of power tonnage of production and I suggest that generation based on a policy of self-reliance. we mo a* the Planning Commission to set Production of coal certainly requires a a target of 225 million tonnes of coal by colossal amount of capital money and there- the end of the Fifth Plan period. We fore it was all the more necessary that should now start planning to produce 225 Government should have taken over the million tonnes during the Fifth Plan period. production of coal-mines. Besides produc- If we could do it from now and create tion, 1 do hope that the Minister will now' organisations, perhaps we may be able to consider as to how best he can inprove the exceed the production at the end of the distribution mechanism. There is a lot Fifth Plan. But if we plan a production of to be done, 1 am not very happy at the 142 million tonnes by 1978-79, then, you way the distribution system is receiving will delay in more exercises by which time attention from the Government both in the a lot of other problems may crop up. There- Railway Ministry as well as in his Ministry. fore ,it is much better if we start planning The Railways are trying their very best no from right now, for a production of 225 doubt and 1 am glad that the Railway million tonnes by the end of the Fifth Plan. Board have recently decided to move food I hope these larger objectives are kept and coal even at the cost of stopping m mind, that is of higher production, of or suspending passenger trains. I think decentralisation, to create more units at this is a good idea and we should the State levels and also to entrust the task try to educate our minds that at this critical of distribution to the alreadyexisting tim e movement of essential items is much organisation of the Government such as more important than momvement of (men. transport and the railways. Our production This scheme, I hope, should give a little more facility for the movement of coal. and distribution with increase. The organisation that is being contempla- This is what all I wanted to say. ted for production of coal perhaps needs to be further decentralised. We are producing SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Alipore) : coal in Andhra Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh The general principle behind this Bill is Bihar and Bengal. Perhaps it will be much ona which should be supported wholehear- better to (mate regional organisations and tedly, by all sections of the House. 77 a m i Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) 78 However, I would say, there is an un- and th/j Coal Commissioner’s evidence many necessary attempt made by the Govern- years ago, where it has been stated that IF ment, though the Minister is not guilty of nationalisation is further delayed, there it, to pass this off as a gieat mea; tire of will be nothing left to take over. It is in socialism. Mr, Robin Sen pointed this tut this background that I wish to post thi# (hat this is being tom-tommcd as, a big question. What is this amount of Rs. measure of < socialism. There is nothing 30 *35 crores being paid for? Is it the com- of that kind at all. Tn developed capitalist pensation to them for having ruined the countries like Great Britain coalmines weie mines? Is it for the slaughtering of mines nationalised 30 years ago. That docs not which they have resorted to? We need fuller mean Britain is a socialist country at all. explanation. The Minister may seek some The Minister said this is sometning ovcri'i'e. icfugo behind the U gal argument that some In any country trying to develop alonj* lines amount had to he paid as per the Con- of planned economy, nationalisation of its stitution as it stands today. The hon. coal resources if basic to the entiic < < n.cn it Su.iiemo Court judges who have recently development, I therefore welcome this given 11 or 13 judgments, I forget the Bill. n umhei, in tlieir judgments, some of them have laid down that the amount to be given Having said this I would also icmind the must bear some reasonable proportion or Minister that workers of the mincss ho\c ratio, some ic^onable lelovauee, to the played a substantial pait to bring fbout property which i* being taken o\er. nationalisation. Workers have not cat- All right. But within the framcrwork of ried on the entire trade union movenun* the^e constitutional limitations, 1 think, over the years simply for their own economic the Ministei and the government owe it to development; they have comislenlJy Lein the Hou e to explain how this amount has asking and pressing Government foi na- been calculated ? tionalisation. As the Minister knows, all the Central Trade Union Organisations a Secondly, even though it is not petliaps few months ago carried out one-day token pteci‘«*!v within the province of this Bill, strike on countrywide scale on the demand if this nationalisation measuie is to cucceed- for nationalisation. Natuially we welcome as we all want it to succeed.then it can not the step taken. There are one or two main be possible without taking ovei the whole points which arise out of this, which 1 would mechanism of disft ibution and pricing. like to put before the Mumtei. If it is not done ii will fail and result in Regarding this amount of Rs. 30*35 ciorcs imbalances in the economy which are often which is being provided for as compensa- utilised by those elements who are against tion, I would like to know, how this amount the every basisc principle of nationalisation. has been calculatd. There is a stiong Theiefore, 1 hope the Minister will assure contradication here. It has (betn admitted the House that they will not stop at the that the mineowneis in the past had induged nationalisation of production of coal but in slaughtering of mines, went in ,for easy will takeover the whole comprehensive profits, quick profits, and they subordinat- scheme of production, distribution and ed everything elso to that one considera- pricing. Unless it is operated properly this tion and in the process have rutnod a sub- schemc will not yield the lesults which it is stantial part of the assets. The Statement meant to yield. of Objects and Reasons has stated: I am glad the Minister has made a con* “The Colliery-owners’ sole object was to siderable reference to the responsibility of earn quick profits without any legard this nationalised coal industry to see to the conservation and safety of mines that timely and adequate supplies of or to meet their obligation to the work- coal reach the power stations all kers. This resulted in the stagnation over the country. The whole fate of of production in many collieries and the Plan is hanging on this question of power closure of many others.” crisis but that is a big problem which he will havo to deal with in coordination with The description of what was going on was railways. But I would like to draw his reinforced by the Minister’s own reference attention to the fact that timely and ade- to the reports erf the Durrows Committee quate supplies of coal is not th e only thing coat. Mines 79 MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill [Shri Indrajit Gupta] and disappeared, and went back to tbeir but quality is equally important. A country Jeaving us to hold the baby. There large number of thermal stations have was a recommendation that that pipeline either got closed or do not function to must be realigned so that there is no danger their full capacity because It is all, gcd the to these coal mines and to the pipeline coal that is being supplied to them is such itself. But that realignment has not been that it has a high ashcontent and damages done to this day, and the decision to realign the boilers and so on. Now, that the go- that pipeline is being obstructed and held vernment has taken over the entire produc- up by various quarters. I would now tion of coal in its own hands it will be one request the hon. Minister, since he is now of its main responsibilities to see that power the sole owner of the c~al mines to see to stations get adequate supplies of quality it, in cooperation with his colleagues in the coal so that the power crisis could be partly Ministry of Petroleum and Chemicals, alleviated. that these coal mines are not endangered' Another point to which I would like to any further by this criminally wrong allign- draw his attention is the coal bill-the coal ment of the Haldia-Barauni pipeline and' bill of the railways. I have not got the the work of realignment of that pipeline figures but it runs into many crores of rupees is taken in hand. and the rising cost of coal in the past as SHRI K. D. MALAVIYA :~The problem' supplied to the railways has been cited year will not be that easy to handle. after year by the Railway Minister at the time of submitting his Budget as . a justification SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: That for putting up fares or freights. Here again is why I am raising this problem. It the question arises that now there can be no should theoretically at least be much, excuse in future for a situation in which easier to solve it now. every six months the coal owners used to Now, I come to a few points regarding demand price hike. I know two years back the problems and the rights of the workers, certain trains had to be cancelled because because without enlisting their wholehearted coal mineowners had asked for a price cooperation, I doubt very much whether hike. By stopping the supply the we shall be able to boost coal production coal mineowners were blackmailing the to the extent that is desired. railways into paying R higher price. New, there is no more scope for that kind of thing, Firstly, I am told that in some meetings and, there shoud be proper coordination .which the Minister had with the different between the Coal Mines Authority and the trade unions soon after the ordinance' Ministry of Railways to see that at least on was promulgated, an assurance was given this one major item of expenditure of the that many of the top officials of the old railways, that is, coal, there will be stability management who were notorious for their of prices in future, and this at least will not anti-labour activities and who were noto- be introduced as an element for hiking up rious for maintaining private armies. fares and freights. of goondas and rowdies in order to intimi- date workers and forcibly evict them from. Now, there is an opportunity to do their quarters and break up the trade something about that bit scandal, unresolved unions and so on would be screened scandal, which my hon. friend Shri K. D. and weeded out and they would not be Malaviya knows very well about, namely given positions of responsibility in the of that faulty alignment of the Haldia- nationalised set up. I am informed that Barauni oil pipe line over the coal-mining in this matter the progress in totally un- areas of West Bengal. You know, Sir, satisfactory, and some thoroughly noto- that that matter is still being gone into by rious people are now being given high the Takru Commission after all the posts of official responsibility in the nation- findings of the Public Undertakings alised sector. I want to mention just one Committee. At least 25 mines are or two names in this connection. affected by the fact that that strategic oil pipeline was laid through that area where There is an ex-general manager of these coal-bearing mines are situated. Birlas' Moira colliery, by the name of Mr. The so..called foreign experts and consul- Bideswariya, a notorious gentleman, and tants minted lakhs of rupees out of that this gentleman has- given some important 81 Coal Mines VAfSAKHA 24, m s (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill $2* post. Then, there is one Mr. J. Sah&nl, glove with some of these mine owners who was a general manager of the East all these years, are coming forward as the Nimcha colliery. 1 am told that he is great champions of nationasisation! being sent as deputy Custodiarr-general She says, if I may quote one sentence from to Madhya Pradesh. Then there is a her statement: gentleman called Mr. T. P. Singh, who was not the manager but the owner of the “The contractors and traditional’ Samla Vaidyanandapur colliery. ( am goondas hired by them having become only mentioning these few names, but unemployed after nationalisation have there arc many others who have got a joined the CPI which is giving them stinking record of colluding with all sorts shelter and encouragement”. of gangster elements. How can the hon. I do not know what is the motive behind' Minister hope that such people will have this kind of fantasitc statement, but certainly a commitment to the public sector? At the idea is to creatc some sort of friction, least it defies my understanding. some conflict, some disruption, some People who all their lives have tried to rivalry, so that the working class cannot dest;oy the coal mines in this country for unitedly do the job of making the nation- the sake of their profits are now going to alised sector work. have a commitment to the public sector overnight! They should be absolutely He will also tell us something about the ruthlessly weeded out. There is no question wage negotiating manchinery which is of their remaining. proposed to be set up, 1 hope for the indus- try as a whole. What is the scheme, if any, Then I regret also to say that police inter- for workers participation in management vention in the trade union momemcnt in of these nationalised coal mines? the coal mi.’?s is stili continuing despite nationdIi«’atH The Minister knows Shri Robin Sen raised the piont of workers verv '\f H liiat the workers and their Unions who used to be on the muster rolls being ha*e whokh -Ktcdly co-operated in this lorcibh driven out under the pain of physi- matte' v>( ta- so'cr and then have welcomed cal duress Will they be taken back? it ar 1‘trcnpthcned the h.mJs of Govern- C'ontrunly, spunou» workers who were ment But the police should not now be taken on to the muster ioils by the employe- utii/s'd to j itcrl ic in bonafide trade union rs fust befoie the nationalisation, who are dcsn'ite". not wot Iters at all, who are taken on to perlotm other duties—will they be weeded Then there is also a somewhat disrup- out or not? They were nothing but piivate tive attitude, 1 should ^ay -1 hope some goondas of those employers. frier, is on that side wi1! nol misunderstand me-—on the pari of some tiade Hi tally 1 hope you will not mind because unio>i lead-is, not all by any means. due to some engagement I will not be abU to There arc some very eminent leaders, be present at the time of his reply - -1 sitting there form whom I have resneet. hope he will answer my points. One is that But there .ue some other* who claim to 1 would like a statement from hi'n regarding belong to the TNTUC. There is a lady the position of many of the small mines who who was being vciy active in the Central seem to be in a po ition of graeat uncertainty- Hall during the last week, who, I am told, Forty or fifty have been left out on the plea is a big IN TUG i&ider, the Secretary of that they are very small situated in distant the Colliery Ma&loor Sangh, M/s. Ramanika areas and so on. In the case of mines Gupta, MLC, Bihar. I do not know who excluded from the purview of nationalis- she was , but I found her very active Mr. ation, has Government any alternative Birin's paper, the Hindustan Times, has scheme to help tham to carry on ? Other- given her good publicity. She has issued wise, they will go into liquidation, will a statement in which she has accused the close down, workers will be unemployed CPI of subverting the coalmines takeover. and so on. If Tata’s mines have been So we are subverting the coalmines take- excluded on the ground that they are captive over and Mrs. Ramanika Gupta and mines supplying coal only to T1SCO, how others like her who have been hand in is it that in Asansol where the Singhanias 3 3 Coal Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill 84 {Shri lndrajit Gupta] H i m f3TT f% TTsfto fWHT VhCFTT have captive mines supplying coal only to their plant at J. K. Nagar, these have been flr*m ^ ?pp isnrfc *pr w p tt »pw taken over? If these could be taken over, t s t i $ trppfhr w tft aft 3r «mr^ there seems to be no reason why Tata’s sRrTT ’Srr^cTT |j f®P % 3ft *ft TSRfT mines could not be. If they are captive mines, so were the J. K. Nagar captive mines. ft# , u s ftrfc m m wr siffe This is a contradiction which he should v a m t 331$ %sr *?t atf- srwt * rg m % arq% irm # v^r Wf^wt ?fW I fWT, afTT 3fT«rM- f^P fsnr ^T ^T S8f?TRt *PT qrcur ^fut ?ft *pt w itir ait*rr, f ^ r r »ptt t z h ^ r %s arrf^^r W O T 3*ra?t fa rra s&ft afrc ^ ^ n sftr ^T-3T5nT srr^ff ^ fo rc frfaw *pfcrar te r «?n?t snrrf sriM 1 ^ v $ f $ ^ * m % farr $rto ^rrqr *rw ?fte srrc; ST^fr IT & r tT^7 ^1TT5T ^ ^ I ?>rr atk $*r f^rr * [sft sr»rta: $ tT f | ?rt # « r w f r r ja N n r * ^ ^ \ o % f » %ft»r » V qVo srrf^ % srt*ff * ft snra- wNfer j, f^«r crO% ^ tf$ ftora rf 1 1 tnfo tfto s'Yo tfto ?ww> ^ vr*T t o t t «p* fa rr gr«r «?n- % Hr?ff 3rr sfiafrr ^ 3TT% fa^RT % ^nr * «r*r fq *r, %f%*r ^r fa?F faerr fa ^ 3rr5?fr$te %f > i ^fa *nft 5pnr srsr ^Tsri^r st to t ^ ^ t % fsrn vrPrq foiifsr s*s#*r *V aftr *?> mpr ^ r r t ^*Pf^fa^9«T^|PPn^ Ti^rr i wr«nffiT tfrfa ^ s ft srta vpt ^ ?*r ^ m *z*r xzm mr %, % fa^ # $ , s r a w t srfa rr *r r jw r ft a p r if" l!;'fi 3fh [Shri Mohanraj Kalingarayar] The Minister' stated in , his speech that While supporting this Bill, I have to men there is some truth in some newspapers' tion one point. There is a provision in write-ups about the shortage of coal. He this Bill for the payment ·of Rs. 30 crores took pains to explain the false version of as compensation to the former mine-owners. some of the Press Reporters but not somo The Minister in the course of this speech truth in some newspaper report. What is said that the moral standard of some of these the truth I would like to know, and to do mine-owners was not good. justice to the Fourth Estate of democracy, When the Minister says that the moral the Minister must explain this. standard of some of the mine owners is not Before I conclude, I fully support this. good, why do you pay compensation of nationalisation of the Coal Mines Bill Rs. 30 crores? When most of the big but the compensation which is due to companies are being nationalised, why do these mine-owners should be seriously we bow down to these mine owners ? thought of before it is paid. Till now, most of the mine owners have minted money. They have �completely suck � �i=.fl� (+r�;;r,rr) : � ed out the coal extract and some of the tli9-l mines are in a very poor condition, and if ^ *tI, ^ % fjfafr *ifw f K r f*r*r] return on their investment. Not only that they are also afraid whether they would sftr fo grrcrflt ifr t o & S' o t $r get even their investment back. So, this W R 1 1 Jtfflr %$t w r r t is a point which I bring to the notice tit the hon. Minister to consider... arctf arrPfw * **r m . W$ *FTFTT v(W, ITS? 3rfaT 5f$f SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANG- *ffi35 Star 11 am : ^ sp tfT 3Tnr ^ LAM : On a point of information. Will the hon. Member make it clear whether he « T R # W %?£ t, eft OT *Pt ^THTT is for payment or against payment of m 1 t M r *ft f t t t $*rr compensation. fwT srr *rw r | aftr o t < w % srnrr SHRI P. M. MEHTA : The hon. Minister ^TT SWT 11 W % r JRT Pl%W | fa? was not in his seat when I quoted what I had said in this House during the course 1 &r arnr ftrsraT ^rrffq; of the debate on the Coking Coal Mines (Nationalisation) BiU, 1972. I quote it x * w f % smr # w fasr *nr samra again now. Welcoming that BiU* I had ^Tctt g sftr t o t t f 1 said : SHRI P. M. MEHTA (Bhavnagar) : Mr. “There is a provision for payment of Chairman, Sir, during the coursc of the compensation to the owners of the mines debate on Coking Coal Mines (Nationali- and to the owners of the coke-oven sation) Bill, 1972, welcoming the Bill, I had plants. I think they would have taken said in this House : out by way of return all these years much more than the capital employed by them “There is a provision for payment of in these. Therefore, there is absolutely compensation to the owners of the mines no necessity to provide compensation and to the onwners of the Coke-oven to these owners. When Government plants. I think they would have taken decide to pay such huge amounts to out by way of return all these years owners, naturally it will be a wrong start much more than the capital employed or a bad start for such public undertak- by them in these. Therefore, there is abso- ings." lutely no necessity to provide compen- sation to these owners. When Government Therefore, I have made out my point. decide to pay such huge amounts to The question is about compensation to owners, naturally it will be a wrong start or a bad start for such public under- small investors. There is a provison under takings.” Chapter Hr of the present BiU for the pay- ment of amount to owners of the coal Sir, I hold these views. There is nothing mines and the amount is shown in the Sche- wrong if no amount is paid to those who dule appended to the Bill. have made big fortunes firom the ownership of this industry. But one aspect which But I could not see anywhere in the bill anything about the basis for the fixation of has been lost sight of is compensation to the small investors who have invested their these amounts. It appears that the Sche- life-earnings in the form of shares in the dule prepared is of a discriminatory nature. collieries. I would like to point out the discriminatory nature by giving some figures, and I would I have received representations from the Uke to cite them for the information of the shareholders of some of the collieries House also. Amalgamated Coal Fields Ltd. and I think, tho hon. Minister has also paid up capital Rs. 51 lakhs—total compen- received some representations from the sation—Rs. 94*04 lakhs. Karanpura Col- shareholders of some of the collieries. lieries Ltd. —paid up capital Rs. 59 lakhs— It is general complaint that they are small compensation—Rs. 77*70 lakhs. Parasea investors and they were getting regular Coal Fields—Rs, 28 *70 lakhs paid up capi- dividends; now after the take-over of the tal and compensation—Rs. 30 *37 lakhs. In 1 management by the Government of all the same way. Western Bengal Coal Fields the coalmines, they will not get an adequate Ltd,—Rs. 114*95 lakhs paid up capital 91 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 18*5 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 98 agatCKt which the compensation paid is Rs. Secretary blames the Centre for unrest in 113 *84 lakhs. Bengal Coal Cos. Ltd.—Rs. the coalmines. This is the report : 140 lakhs paid up capital and compensation Rs. 424 *55 lakhs. “He said that the management of the Bharat Coking Coal Ltd., certain faction Now, it appears that the Government has leaders of the INTUC and contractors given a big amount to the foreign-dominated were perpetrating their hegemony over companies and they have not adopted the coalfields irrespective of the adverse fair and just basis for calculating this amount. impact on the production of nationalis- I hope the Minister will clarify. ed coalmines.” The other aspect of fixing up the amount Further without any scientific basis or formula will “Mr. Desai charged that petty contracts result n an adverse climate of investing were still being given to vested interests small s vings by the middle class and lower despite extension of the public sector in middle class people. I would, therefore, the coalmines management.” appeal to the Minister to come out with an explanation as to how the calculation for This Government is talking too much about fixing the amount has been made and on labour, but the Government, in their own what principle and on what basis it was nationalised undertakings, is adopting an made. He should take the House into anti-labour policy. Clause 14(5) states: confidence and assure us that the amount fixed is not arbitrary and detrimental to the Where, under the terms of any con- interests of small investors. That is. the one tract of service or otherwise, any person point that I want to make, that in the de- whose services become terminated or mocratic set-up it is not appropriate or fair whose services become transferred to the to have arbitrary decisions which will shake Central Government or a Govt. Company the confidence of the people from the doc- by reason of the provisions of this Act is trine of nationalisation. I believe that the entitled to any payment by way of gratu- Government, because of the massive ity or retirement benefits or for any leave majority, is completely blind to this aspect. not availed of, or any other benefits, such persons may enforce their claim It is the impression of the people that this against the owner of the coalmine but not Government has been adopting nationali- against the Central Govt, or the Govern- sation for the sake of nationalisation alone, ment Company. just to achieve cheap political popularity. This attitude has destroyed the confidence I wish that the hon. Minister should give of the people in nationalisation. People clarification on all the points whether a per- expect that after nationalisation of any in- son who has retired or whose servioes are dustry, they will get better quality, sufficient terminated will get his legitimate dues from quantity at a cheaper rate, but the case is the Commissioner or the Government or otherwise here. After nationalisation of not. 1 appeal to the hon. Minister to look coal mines, there is a fall in production, into the labour policy as well as the produc- rise in the prices and shortage of the commo- tion side, the rate, and the easy availability dity. In a planned economy, economy of the commodity to the consumer. With should be controlled by the State. There these words I close. is no doubt about it but it should result into betterment of the industry, cheap prices and in the better living conditions of the a n w fa *** m ^ ^ community. Now, this Government be- cause of its inefficiency and unimaginative policies, has failed to achieve these objectives f a fa ^ ^ ^ of nationalisation. *r*r t wftr ^ w ^ With your permission, I will take two sr?*r ftsntf i safsnr am minutes more—regard in g the labour policy f a ^ ft StfTCT t o m in these nationalised coal mines. It has appeared in the Press today that the HMS 9 9 Coat Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) mil ICO «ft TW aftT *T f t % T | I S tfar ^F5T # vSf t wr?ft v t iftfT n rr ?np srr f?RT ^ fa ^sim r ^ vr armR afr 8f pt »TP R k t o *t vf ^<*» 4 | fft ^ ^TR?rr j fa fatft ^t 5jfm ^ft m % q ^ r «rw % m m v& m m m 101 Coai Mines VA1SA KHA 24, 189$ (SAKA) (Nationalisation) BiU 102 f — *Pt*T *Pt *F*> ^ ^ T^ft | f% 3^ *tf*FP ^ f^R *g*r w tt * t, forer ^|cr ^=npt f ^ m r i w q v tfr in^sr [sflr v fm x m v t $ v n ] «rt> m t v t w «tpt f i^-arw ft *rt ^ T n f h r r o f W , ^ % w w , «r i%fa»r^rvt ^tf5rrf—2t>oW nTfft s p tw y t ?r\ ^ 1 1 %fa?T ^ % r 3f*K SWT^ fa ^ ft w t apT 5t«RfVfe ^ t 3TFFT ^ ^ ^ fN 'fa rt^ ^ r f o t i t Q f t w r 5rr? ?ft 10 p r r c 3 fswrr, «pt o t ?f?r forr i 3w w r f—^itIVih. ^ ft ^T^fi ^ '3fnr a p tw r O T t *PT 3TT T | ^ft |, w r ^ ^ ? f eft J R f t f «PT HWTHHtl ^ OT*TT afa aptspsrr m % ^T^Tt % aft? % 3TTT i t $ ts g^t-H pn^ Tnnr^T^ ^ T 3fT?r |— f^rq apTT 5%5TT, f jR TC v rh ft WTT t*RT ^ f I O T w r cT^H ^RTT | ^t OTt |—^ppt ^nft f m 1 2ft f a Tn f r w T »f % o t w t f^rr, Srfa^r o t ^ ^ o t *r stirer* arr JTfT eft T rc ^ tw w i t ’p f n r w r «p t s t o t t f , spfasrr f w eft 5RTT T o 3OTT ^ fT ^ O T , 5sn*rt £r ^ f w o t i ^ rt ^r o t ^ w i w r ?r^ % ^rarr S^rct o t it * o t ^ -^nr % srrt: wrr o t ^ rr otw p & o t afk ^ ap^rr ^Ti^rr g i ^ft s o ts srR-^rfiH snrft % m O T % » t o t ft% *m | I f , fiira% ft«t $ v m f , OTPtfftstr 4 STTT^r fq%^T ^ r r ^T^TT p"— fem ^tt TfT |, %fa?r sft *Rta t, ®£- ^R»>gfr r^r ^ o t^ t fw m ^ r ^ 5$OT f, ^R% ?r«r * TOT q ^ r o tt ^ f^5rr o t i ftik ■ ntfrtr- |p apt^r tft, o t *ft srtr OTt ^rr ^tsar Tnr^njr w t t , s*r if jt O T T ^T^r t I $ SWT ^— 3TPT apt ^ fa R T O T I f f t *R — ^TTT O T Trsrraft srr *to tm !T «wr «pft *rjt o t, O T -SPTT, ^T T»jfT«Et % q^# ^RT OT ?rv w r w rr src^r p r | ? xj^ft, ?rar OTt^r, ^ ^ tftfsTT ^T m r fsRTT |, OT?tWT fir i xrcfhcnrxoT m»r %*rf *m «ft i sprwfr «pt, *r o t *Rta t, w % r o t r ?r #p- o t ? &# t * r ? t ^ r r ir^sft vt % ftpr trcfhm«r tor »ft » im F t ^rrtT»rr i 3iT t %t 1 1 *? «rt fRTOT»r?rir ^rr^r % g^n «ft O T JTfOTwr 5fRf (SRO T) : ^ r r f v t ?rt s«r *ft% 'ErOTpT 3ft, $ TfG^TRROr % f^ T TT w r^qiTTTTOiT|3ftt5^E?Trit orrr?ft ?OTeT TOT ^ OT ^ *T^pr VW ^ ro v t sfW w ^ f i qrrf^rr^r if ^ fa 711 «PtWT^OTtapT tn^JTO T arr ^ f fa «fmt *rt*r s rrw v t ?RspR %, aft 1937 ^r ^ fe « r r 105 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 106 flcf*Nr qp$ft r f t | t f p m snrnrt f^rr^ t^aPtfW ^apTTT^-* % f^rqr, *px o t fa rr *Pfa- ?n% f w t it * rs r m i r r t w anrt ^r have been improvident and have only looked Because it is there that he could have satis- to their profit. Should that, however, be fied all the different shades of opinions the only consideration when you take over about the methoi of compensation, the these mines. method of nationalisation and the method of subsequent operation that u props fed to Mr Indrajit Gupta referred to the coal be adopted nationalisation in Great Britain 20 odd years ago It is prefectly true that they did That is all I have to say, except to empha* nationalise, but did they nationalise and sise once again that the compensation that not give compensation on such basis that you they have paid is inadequate. May t again impoverish not just the mmeowncrs who say that it was on that side of the House managed the coal mines but also the share* tint it was pjinted out how the holders *> A reference to share-holders is compensation given is mare than the fixed generally disregarded as if it is of no impor- capital, more thin the paid up capital and tance But most share-holders are not that, thciefore, it means they are favouring really as affluent or really have made large the foreign co tmnies and so on There sums of money as is being suggested, they must be sound reason* whv those companies have not fattened as a result of whatever have been given the compensation th*t they exploitation there may have been I think have bacn given Not all comapame* were there is no doubt at all that this compensa- unscientifically run There must be com- tion is extremely inadequate Of course, panies which were run as scientifically as my saying this has no particular significance you prooose to run and I will be very glad and I know that I Speak to a close mined if the Minister wjuld be fair enough to so far as this matter is concerned Never- point out that aonng the 711 mines that theless, I think it is desirable that the point he took over there was a good number should be made, that you are not being fair, which were soundly and well run In spite of all your persuasiveness, this you cannot establish Being as persuasive s * r # r ^ as you are, you are, with your power of per- it I it I qra suasion, I think you might have risked a reference to the Select Committee which it, % sfr *Rr«T # i wf?T ^e fh rt % fsrcr f t , ^rcrq ^ | ct w nrr qrsrr «ft |*i^i?j I | l3RT% IT ®HM'^ ar^t larrwfq^TTqr^ snqwpcrr| feqr 11 ^fr ^mr5rn: ? qrrfircr garr | f a ^ qr*ft W t 3TTf I ? # ?Tft JTPTcfr ^rqqr^T w |f ^ ^nrwqTqr^^FsrqfV a f k % P ro tft 5^t g 'fa |irrt f e f t q?tq% ^Pt dnwr^crr «ft 3fhc arn% w t ’Tft^T STRT q»£ fa % fqnrjrr ^ r?rr| f^ T i m arrvt ^r# f^ ^ f e ^ i r r i tfm-tim*m ftm% t fotrc* Sr q ^ fsrR ^ ?ft% «TT fap g^pfir STrfaftT f^ T T * SRST* ^ {, ^ «rc ^ rr srrfir «bt aptf s» w 3 *t«TT *T^t 13fh[ ^|T §• VttRT f^RTTcT q>T ?TT% f r o *ffr &? s n lw fsrjjSTC flf SRStR % t i snft # ft ^ % 520 f ^ f h r n r * p * t ^ T T I ^ T r - 5^ 440 fW hrm ^ri^qrrsF fSTTfT fo=TK^ I %TT ^ m r z f*pwtfiT*r ^ ?r>r w r # f ^ R % s n ^ r m *r srfsrq? 17% ^ ar^rfT# f^TR ?r ^ t f ^ 5st^r * 1 f 1 ^sr ^ t frqt?? t ffr^r 1T#T spr ^ f t *$t t 1 w t fWV ^ g^rrarforr fs ^ 3^ ^T W | fa? fs? f%7T srnr | ^FTTsr % ^ gsrre *ft ftpTFrr fqj? $>ft ^r^rtr 1 f w *5rr^TT g f% anrsr spk% apr sft am ro | ir r ^ ^ R ir fft^tsrrarr? arrfr ^ ®ft*T ^RT% JT^r ?5f ^ , 41^ ^FR?t vRi?! qrf^t ^ ^ ^ f*r®f ^ f^rq rTiTTF^rf T ‘^sfT^r^ktspR: w T ^ fq:? qrr t 1 fq®% jtt# t $t ^ ?tww *f 3tt t 3fh: ^ ft fqnrr «tt fsw ^ iriT ^ W v R srsrpr] bility and have to take into confidence the people of the country and to show that arfr frrc tfcsff A statement was made on the 23rd of November, 1971 in this very House that w f tt f t when loaded in the trucks (I have personal financial losses will be incurred by the banks information in my custody), Rs. 10 or Rs. and these will recoil upon every poor depo- 20/- is being charged, and it is said that Rs. sitor in the banks. 10 or Rs. 20/- per tonne is needed for contri- bution to a particular party, f do not know My submission is that the hon. Minister which party gets it. It inflates the pockets should make it clear as to what is the justi- of those who raise the slogan of garibi fication of hurrying through this measure. hatao. On 23rd November, they made a statement, that they had no intention of taking over other section of coal producers and on 30th I have been a Member of the Bar. f January, just when the House was to meet still feel that one the Supreme Court has in February, a measure of this nature was given that the compensation should be ade- taken and everything was taken over. quate, that should be considered. My sub- Even atrocities have been committed in mission before the House, through you, respect of those who have been the owners is this. When, according lo their own rates of the coal mines. the N.C.D.C. works out Rs. 125 to Rs. 160 per tonne, what is the compensation that I am concluding with the request that if they are contemplating to give to the coal the Government has to take any action, it mine owners? It will work out at Rs. 4 has to do so honestly and it must appear per tonne. People have said rightly or to be honest to the people that they arc wrongly—r do not know what are the motives doing in the larger interest of the country of their saying so—that no compensation Please come forward with an honest move should be paid. I will be happy if no com- and do it honestly. Do not adopt back pensation is paid. According to the Cons- door methods. The hon. Minister has in titution and to accoitl piotccnon wc nauo- command the entire planning of the country, nalise everything existing on the earth, but the entire resources of the country. Let so long as we have to pay compensation, him make a statement that we will not have the basis on which the compensation should any difficulty about coal within three months. have bjsn calculated, the criteria, And we shall be all happy. have been given in ths Act itself,. That has not been given. As has been mentioned With these woids, I thank you and in this very House, they have been over- still support it. paid, more than the paid-up capital. There must have been some criteria on which (^ro^):*T*rTqrfo compensation is payable. qfffatr, s pt er t . (TraftarTOr) fsr^r sjrr wnfT sffirm Now, look at the difficulties that will be created by the payment of compensation. Scttot I srfc j® m A part of it will go and the labourers will fafrsr fw I1 A h w w t ^ suffer. The first charge is that the labourers 'jWdT have to be paid. Secondly, the small coal suppliers of coal mines will not be paid. They have lost everything . Thirdly, the m frre i % % * financial commitments have been made by ^r^=srTf,^T *rr w o t the nationalised banks. The loans and advances have been made by the nationali- sftr ?TTfTOT spm# i *n3?rc ^ v tw r sed banks. With the poor amount of snrrf wi % fam , ^ fourr i t compansalion that you are proposing to pay, it will not be possible to meet the '*rFRT ^ ri^ r j? m % enrcr financial obligations. •f*W [sr'r TT*r?«r f%r^I » ‘«frr*Ns»r *?t % fa q *ft ’srf^r 5TPsr m m ^ w r it arrtM w 11 ^ «rrsr tft ^ % f^Ftr fan: ^ | ft. *JWt ^ ^t5r qrram ^ ^sft 5n?fir t i * SRTFER ^ W * $ f^faiTard- ?fr W rffr ^ w t , 4 ^ rr jr fa 3sft qrm fa?rr «rr, sqrt- w t r r x m sr?i#^t *r»“ % fasro f^r-srfWr fftc snsrfr ^ r ?r 3T?r ^rrfar «rt ?fh:5R - SPTRfr 3fT t UTif | f a f^ T - ^sff’T^t ®Pt «RTTT % WTFT ^T(T sftTC fa*T -m arcr^T £ *TTWriT % sftr ^TT% ^r«r ^ p t cTCir ^ srypFsr fa q 5TTC, ?ffa?T qTcft *pt ^ I t I ^ aid&ft sftr ^TTt^^r 5pT- # 5rmr «rr fa ^ s r o t f t m f a * ^ •ultimately, in the output of coal and also The entire area should be covered by a in increasing the hazards of coal mining. network of micro-wave and wireless com- We do not want, in future, the coal-mining munication system as we have in the Ncyveli industry to lake a gory path which it has lignite mines and this is a must in our coal trodden in Chinakuri, Dhori and recently mines. in Jitpur and sometime ago m Gindi itself. Information regarding output, weigh- For that, we must hive mcthano-meters mcnts, wagon allotments and power posi- and automotic recording monitors; ihcy tion and labour i>;lation^ must be sent daily m'ist be imported to save the people* from to the C.M A. hcadq'iarters and some high the hazards to which thj minors are ex- official should be there to collate and study posed. and not mc-cly fib it. That way they will not move from crisis to crisis but will keep Thirdly, I would like enormous expansion abieast of events. —it does not really exist there now—of «rt srfawi s i m (srfan) *. m r tfa , -design, research and development wing where they will not only prepare the lay- “RT sft farr out but also design equipment like exca- sfrnft, tftf vators, conveyer belts and coal cutters etc. which are suited to Indian conditions of «ft t pt ark mining. £ I for sfcff Then, all the colliery regions should be Vt SRF3RT 5RT t , *fpft 3ft * linked up with micro-wave links. I fcTTT frsft ferqr m § fo *n; I would also suggest standardisation of equipment and spares. This facilitates ^ t v*ft qrscfr | epfffo training, providing of spares and quality *rrt i ?rrt of maintenance itself. There is nothing as f t ^ t ^ | f preventive maintenance in the coal field, which is a must and which should be intro- srrzf 3 3TOT T f l # 37*t ?ft duced. yff't | fa irat sft % izzwz f«OT I m 5ft TftfbRt | t o h t I would also suggest having a few pilot mines to try out new methods and machines, ^ t | I fiRT & which come in handy for training the wor- srcTrr t h i t | sfhc kers in the problem of mechanisation. srsrrc f Then, there is the question of industrial sfk to tr % wpt r t^ rr psychology. If there is greater freedom i ^RTf*rnct *n#rct $ft and less strict supervision, there is content- ment and increase in productivity. For t o $ «rf% | m workers, we have prepared a scheme for ^ r r t spirt | frrsrSr q s r 50,000 houses in Mohuda. That is gone. f t T f r t i sft * t s te We prepared a scheme under the Coal Mines Welfare Fund that 50,000 houses ^T*TT =31% I % rrPT»TT should come up in Mohuda but it was shel- f * v p t f eft ’fft sptn^rr ved. It would be taken up and imple- mented and the workers should also be cTCf fq%, fl^cTT fir% 3fk enabled to own their own houses. That arrarrHt % fa?r, ??r% 3tft ^ they will have that quality m their exis- i % zt ?tor % aratT tence which does not exist to-day. Be- cause of the logistics and because we are ^ 5R #»r, planning for a larger movement of coal and ^rt%n sft^SraK ft T$J l ^ s p t steel, there has to be maximum co-ordi- ^ apt $, nation between the Ministries of Railways, Steel and Mines, Irrigation and Power which W # ggW l does not exist. f t f t ^TfflT I 123 Coal Mmes MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill 124 [« ft SPFTW] qmrrfsr vt ^?ft t ^ tiwnh: snft 3rre sr^r ftqmsr»rcft am? * ^ ?ft sRftarr v% $m % gft ?ft l£o «fto % development of mechanised methods with* States the local State Governments fixed the out leading to any sort of unemployment price, like for example, at Patna, Ranchi, and we should be able to build up our coal etc. That is having a salutary effect for the production in such a way that we can deal last few months and the price has come down. with the biggest problem facing this country, I would request hon. Members to coope- namely, the problem of expansion of power. rate and help us to the maximum. If they T would certainly assure hon. Members come from the coalmining areas, I would that at the moment we have got this in mind request them to cooperate with the Coal* and we are certainly working on it. mining authorities and develop consumer resistance if they can do so ; but it will take Some hon. Members also drew the us a little time to bring our coal distribution Government’s attention to the serious to the local areas effectively under control. position in regard to the distribution of coal today. I do not deny that the position Then let me go to the question of compen- is serious. We do certainly face difficulties. sation. The hon. Members have asked Certain difficulties are being created by what is the basis for compensation. Some people making false statements. The false figures have been given, and names of four statement gets three-banner headline whereas companies have been mentioned where the the denial is consigned to some back page amount of compensation has no relation- where nobody, including an assiduous ship to the paid-up capital. We have not reader like Mr. Mishra, will notice it. 1 proceeded on the basis of paid-up capital. gave certain figures in the*course of my We have proceeded exactly on the same basis opening remarks regarding the production as was done in the case of Coking Coal of coal. Mines take-over. We have proceeded on the value of the assets, that is to say, a DR. RANEN SEN (Barasat) : Good physical valuation being made, the value of quality coal is not being sent to power the stocks—that is also on physical valuation houses. being made—and the value of the stores. Taking these things into consideration we SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMAN- have put down a schedule which has been GALAM ; That is not entirely correct. honestly estimated, and I would like to take The quality of coal has substantially impro- advantage of this opportunity to pay tri- ved. In some of the private collieries butes to all the officers who have worked so they have got crushers which crushed shale hard—sixteen to eighteen hours a day—so but have now outlived their use and now that within three months we have been those crushers are not being used for the able to come out with the figures. purpose any more. We have improved the The hon. Member, Shri H. M. Patel, quality and the supply of coal. Shri Indra- pleaded that this matter should be referred jit Gupta pointed out that we do have high to a select committee. I can appreciate his quality of coal in many areas. Serious feelings in the matter, but my difficulty is attempt is being made by C.M.A. to work that we are really in a hurry. The reason towards improving the quality of coal. why wc are in a hurry is i f wc are not able My friends forget how bad the mine owners to have a unified organisational structure had been. When the Coal Commissioner for the operation of these coal mines as a spoke in 1954-55, he did not speak humour- whole we cannot also have a unified distri- ously. He said that when you take over bution structure. We cannot do all this 25 years hence you will find yourself in diffi- unless we are able to have a unified organi- culty. He never knew that we are going sational structure. If we refer it to a select to do it right now, in 1973. While Mr. committee it will take time, maybe three Chandrika Prasad spoke about coal for TIP. months or so. As such, we have come Mr. Jagannath Mishra, whom I do not find with this Bill. You may accuse us of com- here, spoke about coal supply to Delhi. ing in a hurry, but the reason is we cannot We see that distribution is made with assis- just afford to wait. The hon. Members tance of State Governments. There have will appreciate that we took over mines on been cases where in respect of coal distri- 30th January and within 90 days we com bution in Calcutta, the private distributors pleted the valuation of the assets of all the tries to make maximum money. In some mines. We have not done it in a loose 5—M41t>LSS/73 217 Cpel Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) BiU 128 {Shri S. Mohan KumaramangalamJ vigorously could not even give us a little way. We have done it with many of the word of appreciation for this change we officers working over-time and I would have brought about. And, I am surprised, like the hon. Members to accept my assu- more than anything else, at the speech of rance that we have been genuine in asses- Shri Robin Sen, who remembering his old sing the valuation. Naturally, the relation- text books on Marxism, that he has been ship between paid-up capital and the actual reading for many years, could only repeat value of the assets varies, because in a very that this Bill was brought forward only in well-organised concern the value of the the interests of mine-owners. I do not assets will be more, and in a badly organised know from what spectacles he looks at it. concern the value of the assets will be less, ' He must be looking at it from the wrong end related to paid-up capital. If you look of the telescope. That is so far as com- into the relationship between paid-up capi- pensation is concerned. tal on the one hand and the compensation Now, may 1 just go over for a minute to on the other, you will find that where it is the question of head office. I am sorry, a well-organised concern, that is, there is my friend, Shri Jagannath Mishra, is not lot of land, buildings, the value of the assets here. T do not know why he raised the will be more, whereas in a badly organised question so strongly if he did not want industry it will be less. This explains to get an explanation from me. Evidently, mainly the anomalies when you compare he just raised it for the sake of raising these companies. I would like to assure it. But, perhaps, Shri Damodar Pandey the hon. Member that we have proceeded will be kind enough to communicate my on the basis of valuation of assets and the answer to him, because it is an important valuation has been conducted by a team question. Why is it that we have chosen of officers of Coal Mines Authority. Other Calcutta as the headquarters of the Coal hon. Members, of course, have criticised us mines Authority? Not because 1 happen for giving any compensation at all. But to be related to Calcutta in any way, as was apart from the fact that under the law and said by Shri Satyanarayana in relation to Constitution wc are bound to give com- the appointment of the Chief Justice ; not pensation, apart from the fact that we are because of that, but for very valid reasons. still living in a mixed economy and, there- Let us take the production. Now, what fore, there is no question of acting in such is the production ? Assam produces a way, one may also appreciate that most •5 million tonnes, Bengal 18-8 million tonnes, of the compensation ultimately will go to Bihar 9 *3 million tonnes, Madhya Pardesh cover the dues of the workers, that is, pro- 14 *4 million tonnes, Maharashtra 2 *6 vident fund dues, wages, royalty, sales-tax million tonnes, Orissa 1 *6 million tonnes etc. My hon. friend, Shri Patel, I think, and Andhra Pardesh 5 million tonnes. For- is not very familiar with the coal-mine ow- get Andhra Pardesh, that is, Singareni. ners. Because, then he would not be shedding Now, if I say Bihar must have it, on what any tears for those gentlemen. Because, basis can I justify it? I can justify Cal- those gentlemen do not really deserve any cutta on the ground that production in sympathy. Bengal is twice that of Bihar and the pro- Those who have operated their mines duction in Madhya Pradesh 50 per cent more well, those who have paid their provident than Bihar. I am excluding coking coal. fund, those who have paid royalty and those Because, the headquarters of the Coking who have paid according to wage board Coal Organisation is in Bihar, that is, in awards will get additional compensation. Dhanbad. Though the headquarters of Because they have, at least, comparatively most of the organisations producing coking speaking, behaved like decent men. But, coal were in Calcutta, we located the head- I can assure you they are very few. The quarters of the coking coal organisation in vast majority of them did no| do so and, Bihar. We do not look at these things therefore, we have protected fully the inter- through Provincial or narrow spectacles. ests of the workers—more even than we We look at them from the point of view of did in the Coking Coal Bill—this time by the interests of the country. And, looking actually pushing them a priority above the at it from the point of view of the interests \ secured creditors. I am surprised that all of the country, how can it be denied that the hon. Members who criticised us so this is the proper plane? If hon. Members 129 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 130 of this House are not prepared to take an Shri Damodai Pandc, Shri indrajit objective, fair and an honest approach to Gupta and Shn Jagannath Mishra had matters like this, then how cm we convincc i atsed the question of the position regard* people? The hon Membei, Shri Jagan- mg wot kers I do apprcciato that the wages nath Mishra, seems to think that the pro- paid to coal mines workers arc not up the duction in Bihar is the maximum He does level of the wages, say, of the steel workers, not know the facts, and, not knowing the or the wages of the railway worker? and so facts, he makes these speeches Naturally on But I think wc should appreciate one when he goes back to his constituency and thing Coal is a very labour-intensive in- tells the people that the pioductton in Bihar dustry 60 per cent or so, if I am not is maximum m India and it is an outrage wrong, of the cost of rising coal is the cost that rt bsing commttcd in Wting up the of payment of labour So, »f we are going office in Calcutta, the people will natuially to raise the wages of labour, undoubtedly be misled Assuming that they may not be I do not stc how we have any alternative misled, is that the way in which wc arc but to do it, though we may be doing it in going to build up the unity of the country > stages—undoubtedly this is also going to This is a very veiy seiious matter tnd I lead to pressure for increase of price. Other- would beg of hon Members to have an wise, we shall just take it out of the general objective, sober attitude to this question budget and say that the public sector is Because, we today in the Parliament of inefficient and is not running its work pro- India have to decide things m terms of pel ly Even the genuineness with which India, what is best foi India and not what we have paid labour since we took over on is best for this part or that pin, but what 30th January has led to higher expenditure is best for India as a whole so far as the Coal Mines Authority is con- Coal is the most important mineral so cerned Therefore, hon Members must be lar as India is concerned So, 1 would quite clear that if we are going to have a beg of hon Member-* to please look at it wage revision—I do not see how we can objectively Please appreciate that when avoid it, knowing the level of wages of the we choose C ilcutta as the headquarters of coal mines workers—undoubtedly we shall the Coalmines Authority it is not just be- have to think of some increase in priee, cause 18 8 million tonnes of coal is being because it is not possible to do the one produced in Bengal but also because Cal- without the other cutta from the point oi view oi controlling SHRI DAMODAR PANDfc Is it not of these coal fields is the most centrally a fact that all over the world, the coal mines located and m >->t iceessible place trom the workers are the highest paid industrial point of view of transport In addition, workers, whereas m our country they are head offices of many private collieries aie the lowest paid workers at present 7 m Calcutta Wc are not shifting the head SHRI S MOHAN KUMARAMANG- quarteis of the National Coal Develop- ALAM 1 have made my position clear and ment Corporation, N C D C and the Cential I would not follow it up any furthci Design Institute would probably remain Shri Jagannath Mishra had laiscd the m Ranchi So, no harm is going to be question of the provident fund scheme caused to Bihar B C C headquarters will remain in Bihar N C D C headquarters Let me assure him that the provident fund claims will be met on behalf of the woikers will be m Bihar The Design Institute of the CM A is probably likely to be in by the Commissioner of coal mines Pro- vident Funds himself Whatever is due to Bihar the provident fund, that is, the coal mines I would beg of the hon Members that a provident fund, on behalf of the workers will be recovered by the commissioner; lot of difficulty is being caused to us by passions being roused on the basis that we the individual workers would not have to are not paying attention to Bihar or that we do it. But so far as Shn Robin Sen’s point are neglecting Bihar It is not so that 'You are pushing us into litigation and so on’ is concerned, well, thare is the difficulty We are fan*, we are honest and we try to undoubtedly I know that the workerrs will take into consideration those things be put to difficulty so far as the making of that are proper in order to decide this matter. the claims is concerned... 131 Coal Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill 132 SHRI DINEN BHATTACHARYYA there is no doubt—it will be difficult for (Serampore) : That question has to them to continue their dishonesty In the be settled... same way, because in regard to the unhealthy practices which they have been indulging SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANGA- in, some of them at least, we shall be able LAM : I have not much time left, and, so, to check them, if we are able to transfer I am not yielding. I am not just making them to other places, and then we shall a speech as my hon. friends do, but I am giving facts. judge them carefully by their performance and deal with them on the basis of their So far as the question of making claims performance. is concerned, I would suggest that the unions This is the broad approach W6 have made should take it up very seriously, and whatever and I think it is a fair approach. I think help they want from the Coal Mines Autho- if we try to single out A as bad, B as good rity in relation to this, certainly we are and C as bad, if we go on like that, we will bound to give. But it is not possible for get into difficulties. If I satisfy one hon. the Coal Mines Authority to take on itself member, I may dissatisfy another hon. the burden of trying to find out what exactly member. So better let us keep away from are the claims of the workers. It is extre- that and judge them broadly as we have mely difficult, and we shall get involved done, on the basis of strict selection, put into some work which we are really not them in places and then watch them and see capable of doing. how they work. So far as officers arc concerned, Shri Let me go on to the next point. I have Indrajit Gupta had raised the question of dealt with the question of the head office. dishonest officers being continued, and Shri Shri P. M. Mehta is. here. He raised tho Mohanraj Kaiingarayar also chipped in question whether a person who has retired at the last moment to have his word. Shri or whose services have been terminated Indrajit Gupta is not correct in saying that could proceed against Government or not. any such persons have been put into very The position is ^this. So far as the ordinary high positions as Deputy Custodian-General wotker is concerned, we are definitely and so on. In fact, the persons whom he trying to sec that anybody who has a right has mentioned have been appointed either to be a permanent worker will continue to as colliery agent, additional chief mechani- remain a permanent worker. If he is retired cal engineer, deputy chief engineer or to because he is past the retu ing age, we will posts of that character. Our difficulty is see that he gets his gratuity: the Coal Mines that wo cannot dismiss at one stroke all Authority itself will see that he gets his those whom either Shri Indrajit Gupta or gratuity. Shri Mohanraj Kaiingarayar or any of other friends anywhere in this House challenge So far as the officers whose services have a» being corrupt, anti-people, anti-worker been terminated are concerned, there are and so on. There are certain persons who very few, may be not even in double figures. have such a reputation. But one cannot Their services have been terminated also go by reputation alone. Therefore what because of misconduct committed after the we have decided is that we cannot investi- take over. They certainly can have no sym- gate into very allegation in the past of every- pathy from us. I am not going to see that one. So, what we have done is to grade they are protected because their very termi- each one of these former officials of the private nations ;in relation to misconduct and noth- sector according to their skill, their ing else. So far as others are concerned, experience, and our assessment of their we shall tty to see that no injustice is done. integrity. Shri Ramsinghbhai Verma very rightly But we have also decided that V e shall raised the question of accidents in coalmines. not post them in the same place where they It is true accidents in coalmines have taken were working earlier, that is, in a sense, place too often in the recent past. We we shall uproot them and put them in some have made special efforts now, particularly other place, so that even if any of them has after the Jitpur colliery accident, to pull up been dishonest-—and some have been. people. It is our responsibility and we shall 133 Coal Mines VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) Bill 134 tty our best to see that we discharge our according to our understanding, there iespomibility.properly and see that accidents is no question of the coal mines being are reduced to the minimum because we affected by the pipeline. A suitable formula cannot say that they will not take place at is being worked out in consultation with all. But we shall see that all that is neces- the Ministry of Petroleum and Chamicals sary in the interest of safety is done. so that coal is extracted with the maximum of safety and pumping of oil is not disr- SHRI CHAPALENDU BHATTACHAR- upted- We do not want to consider the ques- YYIA : Why not import automatic moni- tion of shifting it because it will involve toring system ? enormous expenditure. We think we shall SHRI S. MOHAN KXJMARAMANGA- be able to manage the exploitation of our LAM : You made a good speech with coal reserves without doing any harm so far many good suggestions; do not spoil it by as the location of the pipeline is concerned. J pressing your point. We have taken note do not say it is a defmative final decision. of all that and we will do our best. It is I say this our approach and we would like not use going into all those details now. to be able to manage without having to I won’t be able to improve the suggestions shift it because it means extra expenditure. by repeating them. As I said, you have made DR. RANEN SEN : Only two crores of a very constructive speech and made some rupees are involved__ good points, permit me to leave your speech there in all its goodness and not SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANGA- spoil it by touching it. LAM : Let him keep it to himself. We have got our assessment of the situation So far as the speech of Shri Onkailal and wc have proceeded on the basis of flerwa is concerned—he is not here even to assessment made by technical officers listen to what I have to say—I must say that who have no particualr axe to grind in it was a very good maidan oration because this matter. I have no doubt that whatever he covered everything except the points decision we have come to will be one which Involved in the Bill. Therefore, it possibTy will safeguard both the passage of the oil does not require any reply. Of course, he through the pipeline on the one hand and waxed eloquent against nationalisation, the the maximum optimum exploitation of the only natural colleague of his being Shri H. coal reserves on the other. M. Patel of the Swatantra Party. How often the Swatantra and the Jan Sangh go I think I have covered ail the points that hand in hand nowadays and that probably have been raised by the hon. Members, is the justification for the eloquence which he and I have tried to reply them. Even if used, unfortunately mistakenly against I have failed to, I can assure them that nationalisation. all the points will be taken in to consider- ation and whatever steps that wc have to I would like persons not to make general take on the basis will be taken and we will charges about Congressmen making money, certainly implement them. about their party making money and so on. If they have got a specific charge, let them With these words, I commend the Bill make it. What is the point in making to the House. general charges. Each one can bandy words like that all the time. I thought we MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : were members of a serious assembly doing “That the Bill to provide for the acquisition serious work. If they have charges, let and transfer of the right, title and interest them be specific and let them be categorical of the owners in respect of the coal and then they can be met. But where mines specified in the Schedule with a view do general charges take us I do not think to reorganising and reconstructing such they either help this House or elucidate coal mines so as to ensure the rational problems faced in the Bill. co-ordinated and scientific development and utilisation of coal resources consis- Finally, if I might just refer to the question tent with the growing requirements of of the Haldia-Barauni pipeline taised by the country, in order that the ownership my hon. friend, Shri Indrajit Gupta and control of such resources are vested I 135 Coal Mines MAY 14, 1973 (Nationalisation) Bill 136 in the State and thereby so distributed MR. CHAIRMAN : I am putting as best to subserve the common good, all the amendments to the Schedule, and for matters connected therewith incidental thereto^ be taken into consi- The question is • deration". Page 25, line 40, in column 4, against serial No. 300,— The motion was adopted. for “(Under dispute)” substitute— MR. CHAIRMAN : There are no “(Ownership under dispute)”. (1) amendments to clauses 2 to 35. I shall Page 25, line 49, in column 4, against put them to the House. The question is : serial No. 305,— “That clauses 2 to 35 stand part of the for “(Under dispute)”, substitute—* Bill." “(Ownership under dispute)”. (2) The motion iras adopted. Page 26, for the entries in column 4, against Clauses 2 to 35 were added to the Bill. serial No. 318 (Rauta). substitute— “(Ownership under dispute)”. (3) The Schedule Page 27, foi the entries in column 4, against MR. CHAIRMAN : There are amend- serial No. 347 (Damua), substitute— ments to the Schedule. “(Ownership under dispute)”. - (4) SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANGA- Page 21Joi (he entries in column 4.against LAM : 1 am moving all the six amend- serial No 15^ (Kalichhapar) ments substitute “(Ownership under dis- Page 25, line 40, in column 4, against pute)”. (5) seiial No. 300, — Page No. 39, m the entries in column 4, Jor “(Under dispute)'* Substitute- against serial No. 678, “(Ownciship under dispute)”. (1) omit “Vested in Government,'' (6) Page 25, line 49, in column 4, against The motion wa\ adopted serial No. 305, - foi “(Under dispute)” substitute— MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : “(Ownership under dispute)”. (2) “Thit the Schedule, as amended, Page 26 for the entries in columu 4. stand part of the Bill” against serial No 318 (Rauta) The motion w\/v adopted. Substitute — Tin: Schedule, as amended was added “(Ownership under dispute)”. (3) to the Bill. Page 27. for the entries in column 4, Clause 1, the Enacting Foimula and against serial No. 147 (Damua) the Title were added to the Bill. Substitute — SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANGA- “(Ownership under dispute)”. (4) LAM : Sir, I move : Page 27, jor the entries in column 4, “That the Bill, as amended, be passed.” against serial No. 355 (Kalichhapar). Substitute “(Ownership under MR. CHAIRMAN : Motion moved : dispute)”. (5) “Thit th; Bill, i* am ind; J, bi passed.” Page 39, in the entries in column 4, against serial No. 678, TWaRT fiwwr (*TWT) : KWTffr Omit “Vested in Government". (6) A' 3TT3TT % iTFpfhV There are small amendments and they ^ srer^TT g i relate to matters in issue in court and f t 3ra% n m ¥ ^ for there may be some confusion unless the amendments ate accepted by the House. fosrsfr srff «F^rr fosr % i Coal Mints VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Nationalisation) BIU 138 $*wt m r x w*?n fa Mimstei to assuie that the nothern region will not suffer because of lack of coal | f a f*r^r 1 1 %fasr *T 3TR5TT I fa fartft SHRI P M MAHATA (Bhavnagar) afa sr^r tfsft $*r£ | it t The hon Minister has co%ered almost all w r t *? Nrf^r t, ar^r points raised by hon Members during course ol the first reading of the Bill One 8|T5RRT5R?it 5IT Tflr I *ftfa point which was raised by me and Shn ^ f^TT^T 11 SJHFTT Indiajit Gupta was not replied to by him That is about the amount mentioned in the % t ^ r f a Schedule That amount is detei mined fasr T$r | i q r on rational formula or scientific data vtasrr fa%*rr *rr ^ w i and I would request him to clanfy the point how they have come to the conclusion | a r r | i ^ ^ t r r t ^ t t g in fixing up the amounts to the various f a facnm ®T^TT companies I had specifically pointed out 5 fa ^ | j f | 31W 3ft BlfTTTC ^ that the amount given to the foreign dominated companies are a lot note higher |arr | ^r% srrt it w ^f t | ? than the indigenous companies SHRI K S CHAVDA (Pat 11) Hie As SHRI S M BANERJLE (Kanpur) Sir 1 sociated Cement Factory it Sevalia in Guja- would only mvite your kind attention to one rat was closed down due to the nonavailabi of the very important nutters which have lity of coal The factory produced about been raised by Mr Vikal Whtther it is Delhi a thousand tonnes per diy There is acute or Punjab or Haryana or Utter Pradesh, shortage of cement I should like to know places beyond Mughal Sarai are not getting from the hon Minister when the supplies adequate coal I am not telling you some will be resumed to the factory thing without ascertaining tacts Supposing they allot 2,400 wagons per month hardly SHRI MOHANRAJ KAL INCiARAYAR 200 wagons are being given, with the result (Pollachi) We do not get sufficient coal that thcie is power shortage, there is in the south 1 would request the Minister short igt of coal and hence the industries to restore legular coal supply to Tamil- are suffering nadu in co ordin ition with the Railwiy Mini try Due to lack of coal 17 hr* many industries are facing closure Not For domestic consumption coking only that, there is a powci cut to the extent coal w not at all avail ible and kerosene oil of 75 per cent in Tamilnulu because there is not available Lven for industrial eon is no coal There is 1 paw^r crisis also sumption coal has become impossible to We ai e so far away from the main coal uunes get Is it a fact that this is due to nonavaila and we should be yven gxxi preference bihty of the wagons and coal could not be and coal should be supplu d regularly removed from pitheads and there is no to 1 amilnadu propei coordination between the Mims.tr> of Steel and Mines and the Ministry ol Rail- sft 3TRO w (ar^TTf^) : ways7 Is it the result of this non coordination > ^ i i What are the reasons 9 I tan understand that the old employers are tr> ing to sabotage OTT 5TBT ISTTft 5PR ^9T I know the enemies of nationalisation I i shft *?t I must congratulate the hon Minister for counteracting their propaganda But [i>.:,T .rro arr<:o 1111R1] shortage of coal which is affecting the power, railways and other areas-industrial pro mR �� f � t fef'+f«i mJT1 �· duction as also household consumption. f-;r.r Lastly, some Congressmen themselves him. Coming to his point, it is no doubt have been, unfortunately, trying to create true that we are having difficulties. I can the impression that nationalisation means only say that we are trying to do our best. statisation which means Congress rule and, therefore, monopoly control for I think it was Shri Samar Guha who INTUC trade union in the coal mines. said that a special cell should be set up In order to remove any such misgivings, all to tide over the critical period. I am not trade union should have fair representation sure whether the special cell is really and membership and fair deal from the necessary. What is needed now^is close co- side of the government in all the national- ordination between the Department of mines, ised mines. the CMA and the railways. I do not think that the setting up of the spccial unit is if© (sFsrf t f m ) : w r f ? r going to help us in any way. jflftor, 3 TO?rr m t o t r % firgrfon My hon. friend, Shri P. M. Mehta T r s ^ r ^ T f%?rr cfr ct ht raised the question of compensation. I thought I made the position clear, Wc have *nr w f ^ t e n proceeded on the basis of the valuation ^t^TsPcTT f f r of the physical assets of the coal mines on the one side and the valuation of stores and «PT VhT5iT sft^r «HT^ % *PPT stocks on the other. We have made a valu- ation of these and, on that basis fixed a reasonable amount and as compensation. rfift f®RT t ot i srf+v* r^rf^^T I do not think there w any difficulty. *ft qTSR % f^trr feTT^rr T%T We have not proceeded on the basis of I , f a spt I i the paid up capital or the loans but purely *m x on the basis of the valuation of the physical fa rc e r f r o - *r f assets of each mine. t f % t f t | rfr* Naturally, some of the mines which tft f ^fafT fR tft vfnfr % *mr were looked after much better then other are getting more. 1 do not think there is SFfaSTT «T^t ^ STtT ^ anything unreasonable about it. I can assure *T ^TTT^T t I spT ? T ^ r you that no bias has been shown, whether a mine is a foreign-owned or a non-foreign ^5T % fesft ?ftT 5fTfeT% % owned. We have proceeded strictly on the gwwr % *rft | » 3 ^ ^rm-rr basis of fair evaluation made by teams w^crr £ far «nrr t o t r ^ f o m which have worked together as a single team. It is on the basis of the value of each % f^rqycFr $ ■ x# | t f t r piece of machinery. I do not think any *wt % srt*r to*? ^ f i injustice has been done. SHRI S. MOHAN KUMARAMANGA- One hon. Member raised the quesiion LAM : Mr. Chairman, Sir the principal of the A.C.C. factory being closed down. burden of all the contributions that have We have not received any information been made at this stage has been regarding about it. If the hon. Member could kindly distribution and the weaknesses is that. give information about it 1 will look into I have already dealt with that in detail it and see what can be done. It has been when I was replying to debate earlier. brought to my notic for the first time. There were certain textile mills in Baavmgar Shri Banerjee spoke about * what was which were facing coal difficulty. We chs^kci happening beyond Mughalsarali. I find on that im-nsdiately coal was supplied to that he is not here. I do not understand this them. So far as this factory is conjernsJ, extraordinary practice of members raising I am not aware of th; details. If h? cm questions and disappearing. He is not—here give m3 thi details, I will c\izk up anJ to hear the reply to the point raised by look in to it. 143 Cinematograph MAY 14, 1973 (Amndt.) mil 144 [Shri S.Mohan Kumaramangalam] the part of the Government to bring forth Then, my hem. friend, Shri Mohanraj need a comprehensive BUI. Sir, the parent Act worry about Tamil Nadu. I am as worried itself is outdated. What good can come as he is. It is not his exclusive monopoly out of it in the present circumstances, I or that of the party to which he belongs. We fail to understand. Sir, I want to place a both come from Tamil Nadu. We will see few things before the House in this context. that as best is done to Tamil Nadu as We have learnt from newspaper's reports to other States. No discrimination whatso- and from the report of the Wanchoo Com- ever. Let me make it quite clear. mittee that there is about 7300 crores of About the workers going out of Employ- blade money in existence in the country ment—Shri Samar Guha mentioned about today. In the field of film industry we it—I do not think that this figure of find that the big sharks escape the Govern- 58,000 is entirely correct. 1 hve not received ment’s attention but the small producers anything on that basis. So far as 58,000 face great inconvenience. At first there workers are concerned, he should rest assured was a tax of 15 Paise on raw films. That that we are not victimising any section. was increased by 35 Paise and made 50 Paise. There will be no monopoly for one trade As a result of agitations and the efforts union. He wants creative participation of the Members of this House, the of workers. So do I. When all trade unions Finance Minister has finally agreed to bring arc at logger heads and they continue to the tax down to 30 Paise. Even then it is be &o in the coal fields, it is very difficult to higher by 15 Paise to the earlier tax. As otganise a proper system of creative particip- a result of this the small producers will not ation. He is charging the 1NTUC for doing be able to make their contribution in the something and the 1NTUC is charging production of films. Therefore it is impera- some other organisation. So it goes on. tive that all taxes on raw films are abolished. If they come to an agreement between That may help the small producers to sur- themselves, then creative participation vive in the industry. These small pro- will certainly be possible. ducers have got constructive and artistic I think this covers all the points raised. outlook. It is they who produce classic I commend the Bill to the House. films. Only the other day the hon. Minister provided us an opportunity to see a film at MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is ; Vigyan Bhavan, the film was “Atithi” by “That the Bill, as amended, be passed” Rabindranath Tagore. There is no person The tnotion was adopted. in our country, nay, in the entire world who will not derive sublime satisfaction from 17.27 hrs. witnessing this film. But this film is not CINEMATOGRAPH (AMENDMENT) one produced by the big producers. There- BILL fore, I will request the hon. Minister to bring MR. CHAIRMAN : We will now take forth such a Bill whereby we may turn the up further consideration of the following film industry in a national industry. Sir, thirdly I will mention that in West Bengal motion moved by Shri Dharam Bir Sinha on the 20th February, 1973 namely there is a system in vogue which is called the house protection system. Some time back “That the Bill further to amend the I asked a supplementary question to the Cinematograph Act, 1952 as passed Minister whether he is inclined to abolish by Rajya Sabha, be taken into conside- this house protection system. Perhaps ration.” he did not follow my question correctly Shri Dhandapani—absent; Shri because it was apparent from the fact that Manoranjan Hazra. he gave an unrealistic answer to ray question. Sir, I will state briefly what is this house ♦SHRI MOHANRAJAN HAZRA (Aram- protection system. When the producers bagh) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, in film termino- produce some film and give it to the exhibi- logy this Bill may be called a rush print. tors at the cinema house, the cinema house I regret to say that sometimes this Bill is owner demands a fantastic amount from the sought to be extended to the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Sometimes again it is said producer for exhibiting his film. This that it is not to be extended to Jammu and system results in the cinema house owners Kashmir. We find there is no effort on pocketing a major share of the profit from •The Original speech was delivered in Bengali. 145 Cincituitogiaph VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) (Amndf.) Bill 146 the exhibition of 61ms and the producer bay and Calcutta met me and the Hon or the workers get little or no share of it. Member Shri Dinen Bhattacharyya. They In reply to my question the hon. Minister narrated their woeful tale to us. They had said that the situation will improve are unable to produce good and artistic if we have more cinema houses. Sir, it is films for want of funds and they are moreover like saying that we should have more of groaning under the back breaking burden of police stations when the question is put taxation, I know that this Bill is going to why the rate of thefts, dacoitics and other be passed any way by virtue of their massive crimes are on the increase. Same type of majority. Moreover there is not much logic was apparent from the Minister’s in this Bill which may invite opposition1 reply. T will therefore request the hon. I will therefore urge upon the hon. Minister Minister to bring forth a Bill which will to bring forward a comprehensive Bill provide inter alia the abolition of this house which may endeavour to modernise the whole protection system. working of the film industry. You take steps in matters of film industry without Sir, now I will raise another sei ious issue having intimate knowledge about the Work- we see the working of the film producers ing of this industry. Had you been fami- even the Government film producers like liar with the subject you would not have the film division we will have to hang our brought this Bill in a slipshod manner. Sir heads in shame. Sir, T had visited the Film I am grieved that the Ministers in our Division Auditorium at the Asia 72 Fair country are Jack of all trades but master of on three occasions. We all the time shout none. They have scant knowledge about that ours is a sccular countiy but Sir, in the the subject they are dealing with. That is film that I saw at that fair only one minai why we find casual steps are being taken of the Taj Mahal was projected for one by the Government to do patch work* second only. In one second only one and No comprehensive steps are taken which half feet of film can be projected, ft gave may produce lasting results. Therefore, the impression that we don't have muslims you will have to gain intimate knowledge in our country and we have no muslim cul- about the film industry. You will have to ture and architecture. Sir, it is very unfor- learn their sorrows and sufferings. Then tunate that we claim to be a sccular nation only you will be able to take right steps but in films wc do not portray the culture to improve the conditions in the industry. and tradition of the minority communities. It is not enough that you only get entertain- Sir, I will now mention that the Khosla ment from good films but you will have to Commission has raised some issues about the sec that side of the picture which depict the seiisoring of films. What for this sensor? difficulties, miseries and sorrows of those Sir, the sensor may have only one object who produce the film to make you happy in view and that is political object. There while they themselves weep in agony. cannot be any other objective before With that Sir, I conclude mv speech. sensors. Sir, if any vulgarity is depicted in the films, it can be checked under other laws THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE which exist for the Suppression of vulgarity MtNfSTRY OF INFORMATION AND or immorality. I can understand if some BROADCASTING (SHRI DHARAM check is imposed or objections raised when BIR SINHA) : This is the second day that a film is in the process of production. But we arc discussing this Bill. On the first to apply the Scissor after the film has been day when we discussed this Bill that is, on made at a high cost does not have any mean- the 20, the few hon. Members who spoke ing. Then Sir, the workers in other indust- on that day, along with the member who ries have some rights in those industries spoke to-day, have made some general ob- however small they may be. But the work- servations on the state of the film industry. ers in the film industry right from the camera Basically this Bill has been generally wel- man to the poster boys who work so hard comed by all sections of the House. have no law worth the name to protect their interests or to look after their emolu- This Bill is related only to the extension ments and security of service. Such legis- of the present Cinematograph Act to Jammu lation is direly needed. Recently the film and Kashmir but I accept the desire of most artistes and film producers etc. from Bom- of the Members that there should be a 147 Cinematograph MAY 14, 1973 (Amndt.) Bill 148 (Shri Dharam Bir Sinha] THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE comprehensive Mil. In fact, we have com- MINISTRY OF INFORMATION AND pleted most of the preliminaries connected BROADCASTING (SHRI I. K. GUJ- with the said legislation and I am sure that RAL) : Yes, Sir. when we come with that the legislation be* fore the House, the whole House will sup- Amendment made : port that legislation which follows basically Page 1, line 13,-— the report of the Khosla Committee on censorship and we are trying our very best for “1972** substitute “1973” (3) to come with that legislation before the House. (Shri J. K. Gujral) : So far as this Bill is concerned, as I said MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : this Bill merely extends the scope of the pre- sent Act to Jammu and Kashmir. I am “That clause 2, as amended, stand part of sure that while waiting for the more com- the BUI” prehensive Bill, the House would permit us to extend the law relating to censorship The motion was adopted. which is prevalent in the rest of the country to Jammu and Kashmir also. Clause 2, as amended, was added to the Bill. So far as the basic problems of the film industry are concerncd, sincc under your MR, CHAIRMAN : There are no amend- direction, I have only a very few moments ments to Clauses 3 to 5. The question is : with me, I will not be able to deal with them. But I can assure you that importance of “That Clauses 3 to 5 stand part of the film medium as a powerful medium of Bill." both mass communication and personal The motion was adopted. expression is accepted and the Government is considering a broad, comprehensive film Clauses 3 to 5 were added to policy under the guidance of my colleague, the BUI. Shri Gujral, and will be able not only to help the film industry as such but also Clause I—(Shott title) help to give the Indian films an identity. MR. CHAIRMAN : On Clause 1, there .And the crisis of identity through which the is an amendment. Aie you moving it? Indian films arc at present going through at the moment will not last. We are certain SHRI I. K. GUJRAL : Yes, Sir. that as soon as we are able to have this comprehensive policy implemented at diffe- Amendment made : rent stages, this crisis of identity of Indian J»age 1, line 4,— films will be solved and the new film-makers of the country who are able to receive emi- for “1972” substitute “1973” (2) nence not only in the country but in other (Shri l.K. Gujral) : countries as well will be able to give India the films that it deserves. MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : Sir, I commend the Bill. “That Clause 1, as amended, stand part MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, the question of the Bill.” is : “That the Bill further to amend the The motion was adopted. Cinematograph Act, 1952, as passed by Claused 1, as amended, was added to Rqjya Sabha, be taken into consideration.” the BiU. The motion was adopted. Enacting Formula Clause 2—(Amendment of Section J.) MR. CHAIRMAN: For the Enacting MR. CHAIRMAN : There is amendment Formula, there is an amendment. Are No. 3 to Clause 2. Are you moving it? you moving it? 149 Assent to Bills VAISAKHA 24, 1895 (SAKA) Re. Disc, on Pay 150 Commission*s Report SHRI I. K. GUJRAL : Yes, Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN : No, please. Half- an-hour will mean half an hour. Without Amendment made : notice, it is becoming a practice now to sit late every time. Page 1, line 1,— for “Twenty-thud” ml&titun ‘ Tvttiiy- fourth” (1) 17 -34 hrs. (Shri I. K. Gitfral) HALF AN HOUR DISCUSSION MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : REQUEST BY CONFEDfcRATOIN OF CENTRAL “That the Enacting Formula, as amended, GOVERNMENT OFTTCFRS* ASSOCIATION stand part of the Bill.” TO THE PRIME MINISTER FOR FAIR SCRU- TINY OF PAY COMMISSION’S REPORT. The motion h u j adopted. SHRI DINEN BHATTACHARYYA The Enacting Formula, as amended, (Serampore): Sir, I rise on a point of order. was added to the Bill. I do not agree to the procedure. Already The Tale was added to the Bill. Mr. Speaker has admitted one Motion under Rule 184. This is regarding discussion on SHRf DHARAM BIR SINHA : Sir, the Pay Commission’s Report. The dis- I beg to move : cussion today is Half-an-hour discussion “That the Bill, as amended, be passed.” on the same issue. You may kindly see the conditions. You may kmdly see under MR. CHAIRMAN : The question is : which condition, Rule -184 Motion is admit- ted by Mr. Speaker. (Interruption). After “That the Bill, as amended, be passed.’* fulfilling so many conditions a motion for discussion was admitted on 7th May. The motion Has adopted. Now you are making a farcc of it by admit- ting it as a Half-an-Hour discussion. What is the fun of playng with the lives of lakhs 17 -33 hrs. of government servants? APPRENTICES (AMENDMENT) BILL SHRI S. M. BANERJEE (Kanpur) : THE MINISTER OF LABOUR AND This morning when the hon. Speaker was. REHABILITATION (SHRI RAGHU- in the Chair some of us pleaded for convert- NATHA REDDY) : Sir, I beg to move* : ing this Half-an-Hour discussion into a one-hour or one-and -a-half hour discussion. “That the Bill further to amend the App- I could understand the difficulties of the rentices Act, 1961, as passed by Rajya Finance Minister as he cannot commit this Sabha, be taken into consideration. way or that way, because the entire recom- mendations of the Pay Commission are Since this is a non-controversial Bill and being discussed. But, Sir, he will reply as Members are inclined to pass it without to the Half-an-Hour discussion. So, any discussion, I do not want to make a whatever reply he gives to the Half-an- speech ...... (Interruptions). Hour discussion, the same reply may be given for the discussion under Rule 194. THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMEN- TARY AFFAIRS (SHRI K. RAGHU RAMAIAH) : This is a non-controversial MR. CHAIRMAN : I do not know what Bill. Everybody is agreed on passing it. time will be fixed by the government The House may be kind enough to take it for discussion. I am sticking to this Half- up. (Interruptions) . an-Hour discussion. I will consult the Table and if the hon. Speaker has given any SHRI S. M. BANERJEE (Kanpur) : other order I will convey it to you. I will We are prepared to discuss it provided the convey your wishes to the^hon. Speaker, Half-an-Hour discussion is extended to one but Half-an-Hour discussion Is a Half- hour. Let the hon. Minister agree to it. an-Hour discussion. ♦Moved with recommendations of the President. |5 I Re. Disc, an fa y MAY 14, 1973 Commissia!?* Report 152 SHRI S. M. BANERJEE : Sir, we were MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, Shri Bhogfe told tfoat Minister is unable to reply. For- ndra Jha. tunately for us the Minister for Parlia- mentary Affairs, the Labour Minister and SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA : I wish to the Finance Minister are here. If all the make just one submission that in place of three Ministers agree, let them have a four questioners, you may allow the Member patient hearing. who are present here ...... (Interruptions) MR. CHAIRMAN : No, I shall not go AN HON. MEMBER : Agree to one against the rules. hour, Sir. SHRI DINEN BHATTACHARYVA : MR. CHAIRMAN : No, please. Half It will be sheer injustice to the employees. an hour is half an hour. There must be a full-fledged discussion. SHRI JYOTIRMOY BOSU (Diamond PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Raja- Harbour) : May I make a submission? pur) : If you go through the report, you will On various occasions, half-an-hour discus- find that even to point out the inadequacies, sion has gone even to one hour. Therefore, more than half an hour will be required. I would submit that you may allow the spon- (Interruptions) sor of the discussion to make a slightly longer speech. MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Members MR. CHAIRMAN : We are starting can raise it tomorrow. Now, Shri Bho- this discussion at 17 >40 hours, and I shall gendra Jha. adjourn the House exactly at 18 -10 hours. aft vfiFir m : *nmf?r sft, That is all. I shall not go against the rules. I shall put the hon. Member’s case # ^ tstr «ft I rffa before the Hon. Speaker tomorrow. SHRI S. M. BANERJEE : Unless I am fcT^TFTT *PTT \ % ftp* physically thrown out of the House tomor- ^ ?rnr$ ftrsrT *nrr ft? row, I shall see that no proceedings take place tomorrow. fosrfcT % f o r srcfa JnTRT f t Tift t ^ WJcTT iTiff MR. CHAIRMAN : Half an hour is half an hour. ^ s t w i eft sfn: % f^TT TOT f% iTTHfftsr SHRI DINEN BHATTACHARYVA : You may kindly issue a direction ...... ^T^T VtfW5T qft «rr Tift | i ^nrjffrr MR. CHAIRMAN : I have no powers to issue any direction. g m m v ^ % arc* (Interruptions) srrfer f t fo r 3 i* rr# sftfrFT forr SHRI SAMAR GUHA (Contai) : May t o t , s rn ro f t wxas ^ t I make an appeal to you ? The problem i srr? *n: w will be solved this way. Usually, it happens that half an hour goes to 45 minutes or even srft^r fsnrr t o t , f^ r % one hour. So, I would suggest that you ftrq cfftnr %cpt OTtor ftffer may adopt a via media. Otherwise, you know that it is a very explosive issue. ftrcrr t o t «n s fo - You in your wisdom may extend the time. f w | ftr VfcT «T5T?, MR. CHAIRMAN : I cannot extend i «nsff half an hour to One hour. qfcprflr | i * 1 SHRI SAMAR GUHA : You can extend it* to a certain extent, as you have usually done. «# % jrre ip t ftc w rn p pg 153 Rc Awe on Pay VAISAKHA 24, 1895 {SAKA) Commission’s Report 154 I sr | i ^ 4 t %r£ta fW ( % «p^rrMr n %?ft ^ f?TWT t I ^T ^ t fo *rw t*r jtft ^ sft, ^ r jrqrfft ^nsft^rrefV $$t ^sr ^rnfnr forr srr % i m ht jt pt V sfn ft srrerr f t «ft f¥ f f f r ? f t %?pr sn m m ^ r i% *5prt*ffar 5prfir % fa trs rc m i ^ f^rrr, ^r?r t t ^ r % %f?R3ft ?mfnr m srfr%spT ? f^rtr, ’TPFT TT JTfRT ^ b w ^ vft ir^rr s r ^ i 'Tfw ?nft p %^T m fo tro xr$O ?rk 3ETrfO ft$ t W farar wnHnfwt c f t ^ ?rmt»r ?i?t ^ t p t | . ^t ft ^ r ?rft I, ^ft ^ ^r % 7SRT | gfT^H | fqf* 'TK % “Government has to take note of its dual role both as a supreme * ^ 1 ifift % $, 3FT ^TT %?ti authority responsible for (he govern* m m ^ % | t , f t ^ r ance and the development of the cou- ntry A common wage policy should be evolved for public sector under* w to r %*nfr m % m f c t ftsrr takings and an effective coordinatisf 155 Re. Disc on Pay MAY 14, 1973 Commission's Report 156 [s ft irt*te wr] *rw>r terfw * ftn# sr<=Rfw- machinery should be established to ensure that the pay scales m a public ,3PT*P t ajf^p 5® *m^ft # ap#- sector undertaking do not go seriously ^Tfort % %ft % fire* | i *cptt $c out of line with those in any other I ^ n r ^ spt f% fir? ft public sector undertaking under the Government” fasrsrppR: qr?r*r 5tTJfcr *Tt ^ fSRTT 5T© t fa ^t| i ?mr srf^r ^ ^ arra ^ sfa ^ffacfr cft*r ?rn?r o t i ^r ^iTf vt *TTTcT T O R % *TT «rew f i r t , ? f k ?TT?ft t f t f s - % f sfnNrr^ rr*r ^ r r x% f # ?TT5f ^ r qrr sfrr fcFrn *rf | fa fatft^qra* «rRft^pT ?fhc w ^ r « rr %%cTT r T ^ 'STR I $8% fair ^ P iC 4 't f a f^rf^nr %^r ^ fa^rr sraft m m rnft | f a 35qr ^ t o ^pt fW f% fatrr 3TR- i ^ t w «rw i f^«rfar # ®Ft| ^ t | $£t?T TT *TTW f t JTT f t ^nrwrtn- % sftftmM |, ^TTsft f e t q^r ?mT ^ ' t # ^fmr «ptf® f%T ^ T f a c T ^ *TrTm ?tff^rer Ihh ^n?ft f, ^»r^t ^ti1^ ^TTct f ®ftr SPHTT %cPT ^ft ^"3% l^TT#, 1973 ?t ^TPT ^ 7 ^ f^'?rpT i eft < r f ^ r % TTcrrfar faTT I 1 ^ftnt ^ t ?TFT «ft sprnr ?r t ?ft% t o t t i «ftfa far % ^Fr?rnTt*T ^pt ?ft% Ta% snrnr ftrr r ?nfa # fa^far ff | 2p»r ^ ^r # 3T*lf 5SRTC ?T q t I 'S^Rppt vTFT fa m ^TRT, %fa»T ^ ^fe'TT^T'Tt, *far tfr «rn f^ r ^ -&&& ift^ r ferrt i * rm t i *r$ 3r§ ^TTfap for ^ facpaR takings. Take for instances the Hindustan Steel, there the Class IV employee® jpU 1968 ^T5rm ?r f c m r i [Sh. S. M. Baaerjec] ment whether—according to their own pro- Ifreie is ro q m t i c n o f heating. They fession of socialism—they are going to should negotiate w ith the Government revise the pay -scale of the lowest strata employees and there should Ic a bilateral of Class III and IV employees so that thay, agreement on this question Kmuc th get proportionately higher benefits than Central Government employees threiiii- given to the highest salaried employees out the country are not going to acupt the of the Government. report of the Pay Commission m it is, rn» less it is modified to their advantage. Secondly, Sir, this Pay Commission, you lShrs. know, was appointed as a result of the Sir, I do not like to take the time of the Central Government employees’ nation- House. The employees are fuming with wide strike h. d in 1968 under the leader- anger. Unless something is done, I may ship of late Shri Nath Pai. The issue then tell you that the Central Government was the need-based minimum w agj But, employees are going to raise a slogan ‘eighcr the Commission has rejected that. I want justice or agitation'. 1 hope the hon. to know from the Government whether Minister will kindly do justice to t hem. Un- they are going to revise their attitude and less he gives justice to them and unless the accept the principle of need-based minimum report is modified to the satisfaction of tho wage. The 15th Indian Labour Confe- employees, there is going to be serious rence recommended a need-based wage labour trouble throughout the country. of Rs. 314 whereas the Pay Commission So, I would request the hon. Minister made it at Rs. 185, only on the basis of the to call a meeting of the Members of Parlia- Medical Council's formula of three units ment immediately. If he cannot discuss of vegetarian diet. Even that also is wrong. that report in Parliament, let him call a The Medical Council arrived at the figure special meeting elsewhere--that is, in June, of Rs.196/- based on the three unit formula. and discuss this printed pamphlet which Most ol the people in Class III and IV are we have got and have our observations as not vegetalrnns but are non-vegetarians. they may help him in arriving at a decision. 1 want to know whether the Government But, under no circumstanccs should this it, going to revise the three unit formula and most damaging report of the Pay Commis- accept the recommendations of the 15th sion be implemented. It should be scrapped Indian Labour Confcience. Also I want and bilateral negotiations should take placc to knowr whelhci the Government is going ana the employees’ views should be taken. to give jetio&pcctive effect to the recom- Not only should their views be taken but mendations of the Pay Commission at least they should also be token into confidence. itom the date of setting up of the Com- What is the use of talking of socialism when mission. Also I want to know the time- a vast majority of Class III and Class IV limit when the Government is going to employees here are to-day fuming with finalise examination of the recommendations anger? Is this the way of socialism? of the Pay Commission, now that a cell These are the people who are in the low-ebb lias been set up by them. When is that of the society and they are not in receipt cell going to finalise its recommendations of high salaries. Why should the employe- on the Pay Commission’s Report after scrut- es, who are drawing higher salaries, be given inising and examining it and make its re- a rise of Rs. 300 or so? At least this por- commendations to the Government. I tion of the report should be amended im- want to know also the basis of composing mediately without delay. the Government cell to scruitnisc and examine the recommendations of the Pay SHRI SAMAR GUHA (Contai) : Sir, Commission. Who are the persons who our Government is talking of socialism and have been drawn from the different service*1, doing justice to the lowest income group of what is their status and what are the reasons our people. But, paradoxically, the Pay why those pcrons have been taken from Commission has recommended an increase those different services for setting up the of Rs. 200/- to Rs. 300/- for the secretaries and Under Secretaries and—above whereas cell? for the class III and IV employees, they have Lastly, after you finalise your recommen- recommended an increase ranging from R». dations you may develop a rigid mind, a JO to 20. I want to know from the Govern- • fixed mind. But, before that, will you giv 1£1 Re. Disc, on Pay VAISAKHA 24, 1195 (SAKA) Commission’s Report 162 an opportunity to Parliament to thrash out the whola problem, discuss the whole j® sfa i wrmr w * *wryff problem, argue it with the Government £ w ft *foff % # ^ $ i logically, keeping in view your objective of # «PT*T tn £ f , s W t 3TTT socialism, the objective of giving social justice to the lower strata of the people, 95TTfT 416 LSS/73—OIPF.