LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4649

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Thursday, 25 March 2021

The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE KWAN-YUEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

4650 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

THE HONOURABLE CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE , B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4651

DR THE HONOURABLE

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

MEMBER ABSENT:

THE HONOURABLE PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE YING-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

MR JACK CHAN JICK-CHI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

4652 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:

MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL

MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MS MIRANDA HON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

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MEMBERS' MOTIONS

PRESIDENT (in ): This Council continues to debate the proposed resolution under Article 75 of the Basic Law to amend the Rules of Procedure.

Mrs Regina IP, please speak.

PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER ARTICLE 75 OF THE BASIC LAW TO AMEND THE RULES OF PROCEDURE

Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 24 March 2021

MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): President, good morning. I speak on behalf of the New People's Party to indicate our support for the proposal to amend the Rules of Procedure. The Rules of Procedure and the House Rules were first amended in the current term in Autumn 2017, and we now seek to follow up on the task and put forward the proposed amendments in question because after the amendment exercise in 2017, we have found that there are still a lot of loopholes in the Rules of Procedure, which have seriously affected the work efficiency of the Legislative Council and its Members, resulted in a lack of adequate power to deal with the situation when the Council is in serious chaos.

The proposed amendments may be divided into eight groups, and they are the first batch of amendments that we have to deal with. It is absolutely necessary to expressly provide for the requirements under these amendments, such as "Proposal 1: Sanction against grossly disorderly conduct of Members". Why is it necessary to have the proposed sanction put in place? It is because the withdrawal sanction under Rule 45(2) of the Rules of Procedure is obviously inadequate indeed. For example, when I was the Chairman of the Bills Committee formed to study the legislative proposals relating to the co-location arrangement, there were always Members speaking loudly at their seats during meetings, and this was actually the same trick they played at other meetings. They kept using the excuse of invoking the Rules of Procedure, and spoke loudly in the attempt to interrupt our discussion. The chairman concerned did try to stop them but the efforts were to no avail, and they often returned to the meeting room soon after they were ordered to leave. There is thus a genuine need to 4654 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 introduce some enhanced measures in this respect, which have the full support of the New People's Party.

As for "Proposal 2: Specifying time limits on debates in Council and adjusting the length of Members' speeches", there have been marked improvements in maintaining order in this legislature since the President assumed office, and you have tried to exercise time management during deliberation of many bills, such as the Guangzhou-Shenzhen- Express Rail Link (Co-location) Bill and the National Anthem Bill which have left a particularly deep impression on me. When proper time management was not exercised in the past, the deliberation process of bills was often dragged on for too long, and this had given rise to very serious problems.

I have looked up past records and can recall that after I was elected a Member of this Council in 2008, WONG Yuk-man and jointly proposed to move 1 306 amendments of 2 464 pages in total to the Legislative Council (Amendment) Bill 2012 in May 2012, aiming to filibuster in an attempt to derail the voting on the proposed arrangements for filling vacancies in the Legislative Council. Moreover, LEUNG Kwok-hung requested a headcount frequently, thus causing the abortion of a number of meetings. It was not until 17 May that year that the then President of the Legislative Council invoked Rule 92 of the Rules of Procedure to bring an end to the debate which had lasted for 100 hours 23 minutes, and this is commonly described as "cutting off the filibuster".

This move to cut off the filibuster had triggered a judicial review by LEUNG Kwok-hung, and the subsequent judgment handed down by the court had fully affirmed the power of the President to do so, stating clearly that instead of merely sitting here to preside at a Council meeting, the Member assuming the office of President has the responsibility and authority to manage Council businesses and the proceedings for conducting debates on a particular motion or bill, so that the relevant parliamentary procedures will go on in an orderly and efficient manner. Therefore, the President definitely has the power to specify a time limit on a debate held for the deliberation of a bill for the purpose of time management so that Members will speak in a concise and orderly manner. The New People's Party welcomes and supports the proposed amendments fully. According to the court judgment, although the judge has mentioned the principle of separation of powers, the purpose is to make it clear in the judgment that the court would not interfere with how the Legislative Council handles its internal LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4655 affairs. Hence, the proposed amendments comply fully with the Basic Law and the laws of Hong Kong.

Besides, it is of course absolutely necessary to formulate such measures as "Proposal 3: Powers of the committee chairman in office to deal with normal business prior to the election of the committee chairman for a new session", as well as the revised arrangements concerning the election of a chairman for a new session. The saga of the election of the Chairman of the House Committee started in 2019, and as the Deputy Chairman presiding at the election, had delayed the process for months from October or November 2019 until May 2020 when the Chairman was finally elected after six or seven months of bickering. Meanwhile, the work of the House Committee had come to a complete halt, and given the backlog of bills, the work of the Legislative Council had also been paralysed. It is thus extremely necessary for us to plug this loophole, so that no one will be allowed to paralyse the work of the Legislative Council by abusing the existing rules.

Regarding "Proposal 4: Fine-tuning the procedure for the adjournment of debate in the Council", its coverage is actually limited to certain motion debates only, such as resumption of debate adjourned under Rule 49B(2A), motions for the adjournment of the Council, etc. As the relevant rights are not unrestricted, we also consider the proposed amendments in this respect worth supporting.

Certainly, we will also give our strong support to the proposed amendments to prevent possible abuse of procedures. It was not uncommon that at some previous meetings of the Legislative Council or individual committees, especially under circumstances not dealt with in the amendments proposed today, some Members did try to propose amendments in an attempt to obstruct our work in this Council. I remember clearly that when a funding proposal concerning Old Age Living Allowance ("OALA") was discussed at a previous meeting of the Finance Committee ("FC"), former Member WONG Yuk-man made an extremely absurd request to propose over 1 000 amendments to urge the Government to examine whether similar allowance could be found in other countries like Bulgaria, Romania, etc., and this had greatly affected the work of FC in endorsing the proposal to benefit the public. Proposing such repetitive and frivolous amendments is nothing but a gross abuse of procedures, and as the Member presiding at the relevant meeting, be it a Council meeting, FC meeting or bills committee meeting, the President or the Chairman should be conferred with the necessary power to deal with the matter.

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Consultation is currently underway on the second batch of proposed amendments, and they also cover some problems we often encounter, because Members tend to move motions suddenly without notice at meetings of panels, FC and the Establishment Subcommittee. Although these motions have no binding effect, especially those moved at panel meetings, Members are still required to go through a debate process before their passage, and this will inevitably have an impact on the progress in handling various agenda items at the meetings concerned.

We should not blame Members for proposing amendments, and we have also done so, but it will not be a serious move if they, having merely been hit with a sudden thought while attending a meeting, draft the wording of a motion casually on a piece of paper and request to have it moved immediately. Hence, it will be much more reasonable if amendments can be passed in the future to the effect that a notice must be given, for example, two or three days before for moving a motion, and that the motion may only be moved after it has been checked by the Secretariat.

President, in short, the Rules of Procedure actually take their origin from Erskine May of the Parliament of the , which had not been significantly amended before 2017. As the workload of the Legislative Council has become increasingly heavy, while the order in this legislature is increasingly disrupted, there is indeed a great need to have a profound review and revision of such rules.

As I pointed out at a meeting of the House Committee to its Chairman, Ms Starry LEE, there is in fact not much working time in a legislative session in this Council, and some officers of the Executive Authorities have previously queried why we need to have a summer recess every year and why we cannot continue with our work during summer. As a matter of fact, there are recesses in congresses and parliaments all over the world because all congress members, be they elected through "one person, one vote" or returned by functional constituencies, need to stay in touch with their constituents, visit neighbourhoods and receive complaints. This is also one of the major duties we should discharge as elected Members.

Let us take a look at the timetable of the Legislative Council. When a legislative session begins in October every year, we have to first receive and then debate the Policy Address of the Chief Executive. The Council will soon be in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4657

Christmas recess in mid-December. The session will resume in January, but there will be a break for several days during the Chinese New Year, after which Council meetings will be suspended again for eight to 10 days when meetings of the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference are held. We will be off again later for four days during the Easter holidays. The Budget is usually delivered at the end of February, and time slots will then be reserved for FC to convene special FC meetings before the Budget debate is held.

Hence, there is in fact not much time left for Members to genuinely debate on important motions and Government motions and scrutinize bills at Council meetings. We should therefore seriously review the Rules of Procedure, improve our work efficiency and get rid of all those terrible and unsightly chaos that we have previously experienced in this Council, such as throwing objects, shouting loudly at the seat, abusing the Rules of Procedure constantly to obstruct parliamentary proceedings, etc. A legislature with dignity will never tolerate such behaviours.

The New People's Party will therefore give its support to the proposed resolution to amend the Rules of Procedure. President, I so submit.

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, Article 75 of the Basic Law stipulates that the Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council shall be made by the Council on its own. For that reason, it can be said that the Rules of Procedure are the house rules of the Legislative Council. They aim at regulating the rights, probity and code of conduct of Members when attending the meetings of the Legislative Council, so as to allow the meetings to be conducted without a hitch, and Members to speak their mind freely on behalf of their sectors and constituencies.

The blueprints of the Rules of Procedure were adopted from the Standing Orders of the pre-1997 Hong Kong Legislature, while the Standing Orders were modelled on the common practice, precedence and convention of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Regardless of the pre-1997 Standing Orders or the current Rules of Procedure, they have been amended for many times in the light of the actual situation. The purpose of making amendments was to update the rules in order to suit the practical needs of the operation of the Council. For that 4658 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 reason, as long as there are valid justifications, the Rules of Procedure can be amended; or in case a problem concerning the operation of the Legislative Council has emerged thereby preventing a Member from exercising his functions, the Committee on Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council is duty-bound to review if the Rules of Procedure in force fit the current situation, in order to guarantee all the Members of the Legislative Council may fulfil their functions as stipulated by the Basic Law.

More than a decade after Hong Kong's reunification with the country, the overall operation of the Legislative Council had been smooth as Members then were generally self-disciplined. Even there were dissenting views, different standpoints and heated debates; Members would try to convince the others by reasons in debates. Members were generally decently attired, thus the then Legislative Council as a whole gave the public an overall impression of dignity, rationality and a certain level of capability. As Mrs Regina IP said just now, Members from the pan-democratic camp started a filibuster in May 2012: WONG Yuk-man and Albert CHAN proposed a total of 1 306 amendments to the Legislative Council (Amendment) Bill 2012 and initiated a lengthy debate on the amendments. The numerous quorum calls had resulted in a large number of aborted meetings. At the end, the debates took 100 hours and 23 minutes to conclude. Since then, filibusters in the Legislative Council, lengthy debates, and aborted meetings due to ceaseless calls for quorum had become the norm. The use of filibusters had subsequently spread to the Finance Committee and its subcommittees, such as the Public Works Subcommittee, which had stalled the process of approving the funding requests of many works projects and thus affected Hong Kong's economy.

We used to mock the scuffles in the Legislative Yuan of Taiwan and criticized that the standards of policy discussion in Taiwan was rather poor as Taiwan's lawmakers only knew how to put on a show, and its legislative body was not aimed at solving problems. But in recent years, Hong Kong started to imitate Taiwan's practice, thus the Legislative Council has become the main stage for political struggles. Whenever the Government is likely to get the credit from a topic of discussion, or the funding application or policy is relevant to the Mainland, the opposition camp will make use of the grey area of the Rules of Procedure to delay the process of various meetings. They would make paradoxical arguments with a view to sabotaging the relevant bills and preventing the funding from being allocated on time. They would even resort to physical LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4659 confrontations to prevent the normal processing of meetings and affect the normal work schedule of those Members who wish to conduct meetings in a normal fashion.

In 2019, there were disturbances caused by the opposition to the relevant proposed legislative amendments. In order to prevent the setting up of a Bills Committee, the opposition camp started to be part of the "mutual destruction camp". They made use of the Rules of Procedure to stall the election of the House Committee Chairman with a view to paralysing the operation of the House Committee for a total of seven months. All the Bills submitted to the Legislative Council were unable to be processed, which had almost caused a shutdown of the Legislative Council.

The objective of amending the Rules of Procedure this time around is to clear once and for all the chaos seen over the past decade in the Legislative Council piece by piece, so as to enable the Legislative Council to smoothly execute its functions in future. One of the proposed amendments this time around is to penalize a Member by suspending his service of the Council for a period of time and withholding part of his salaries for his disorderly conduct. For a Member who has repeated the disorderly conduct during the suspension period, the penalty will be increased progressively. The duration of the suspension on the first occasion is one week, and the duration of the suspension on the fourth occasion is eight weeks. After reading the relevant information, I personally considered that the penalties were somewhat too harsh. During the consultation period, I was of the view that the penalties for any subsequent occasion should not be increased progressively. That is to say, each suspension period should only be one week, and any repeated offence should only be penalized for a one-week suspension, because I considered the deterrent effect adequate. Of course, the Committee on Rules of Procedure has subsequently taken reference of the experience of the United Kingdom and other overseas' legislatures and consulted other Members. Eventually, I also agreed with the progressive penalty system. For that reason, I finally agree to support all of the amendments.

The amendments to the Rules of Procedure this time around can offer greater protection to Members of the Legislative Council when they carry out their duties and fulfil their rights. Unless Members are interfering with the proceeding of a meeting without any good reason, otherwise their rights will not be affected. Following the further implementation of the decision of the 4660 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

National People's Congress, I believe that the chaos seen in the Legislative Council will not reappear. Hong Kong's politics, economy and the livelihood of the people will get back on the right track, and the glory of Hong Kong in the old days will re-emerge once again.

With these remarks, President, I support the motion on amending the Rules of Procedure.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, it is not an easy task to be the Legislative Council President, as the President has to deal with all sorts of work ranging from the internal business of the Legislative Council, the relationship with the Administration, to matters concerning the brooms and litters inside the Complex.

Yesterday, the President told me that the table top lectern was an antique, but it was okay even if it was broken by me. Although a checklist of many acts concerning damage and the compensation of properties are set out in the Rules of Procedure, I believe the President will not ask me to make compensation for the damaged lectern. Moreover, the President is actually very kind to me and get me a new lectern today. I have checked it and it is very sturdy. Thank you, President.

President, in our capacity as the Legislative Council Members, we should feel the honour as we can participate in the law-making process, examine public spending and monitor the Government's policy implementation. It is an honour for us to carry out these meaningful tasks. Nevertheless, if we talk about the Legislative Council in recent years, people will only be reminded of filibusters, stirring up of trouble, aborted meetings and throwing of objects. Sitting in this solemn and dignified Chamber, I feel helpless and sad when I recall a succession of absurd scenes of the past.

As a matter of fact, since 2011, certain Members had made use of the grey area of the Rules of Procedure to stage filibusters. And in the past decade, some Members had been insanely abusing the Rules of Procedure. Whenever a topic was related to the Mainland, such as the National Anthem Law, the Co-location Arrangement of the Express Rail Link and so on, they were all subject to filibuster. Some former Members opposed everything from China or everything LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4661 from the SAR Government. Some even opposed everything for the sake of opposition. During the legislative sessions from 2016 to 2020, Members from the "mutual destruction camp" kept on staging filibusters to delay Council meetings. They abused the quorum call mechanism by making 501 calls and thus caused the abortion of 14 meetings, and the failure to form at least 14 Bills Committees.

Since October 2019, former Member Dennis KWOK malevolently abused the Rules of Procedure to hinder the operation of the Legislative Council. Aided by seamless cooperation from the Members of the opposition camp, he had paralysed the House Committee of the Legislative Council for more than six months. During that period, the Legislative Council was unable to conduct timely examination of its business as more than 80 items of subsidiary legislation were not dealt with before the expiry of their scrutiny periods. Many livelihood-related laws were unable to be passed in time.

Owing to the pandemic, the Government announced in July last year the postponement of the election of the Legislative Council for one year, but the "mutual destruction camp" kept on stirring up trouble. As a result, not a single Council meeting was able to be held smoothly without incident. On the first meeting of the current session last year, the "mutual destruction camp" made 12 consecutive quorum calls. They tried to filibuster the proceeding by calling for headcounts. They even collaborated with each other by nominating each other in the election of Chairman. Some even laid siege to the President Podium. We could see that some former Members had tried every means to paralyse the operation of the Legislative Council and obstruct the policy implementation of the Government, with a view to throwing Hong Kong into a state of "discussing without making decisions and deciding without taking actions".

President, the abuse of the Rules of Procedure had not only caused cost overruns and delays to many works projects, it had also obstructed the normal operation of the Legislative Council and the Government. Worst still, they would even damage the long-term economy and business environment of Hong Kong, as well as the stable development of our society and people's livelihood. We can see that in recent years, cross boundary projects such as the Hong Kong section of the Express Rail Link, the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge Hong Kong section and the Liantang/Heung Yuen Wai Boundary Control Point were all delayed because of the filibuster in the Legislative Council, which had not only 4662 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 caused an increase in the costs which was ultimately borne by taxpayers, but had also affected Hong Kong's job market and the services provided to the public.

Even though we are witnessing the rapid development of our neighbouring cities, Hong Kong is still embroiled in political rows. Conspiracy theory was used to judge everything and everything was politicized. Even many policies related to the people's livelihood, education and medical services were unable to be implemented. I believe all the people who love Hong Kong will feel very sad. Certainly, the Rules of Procedure is drawn up for the gentleman but not the villain. If everyone is a gentleman―just like the President―who has the power but will not use it to the fullest, there is no need for us to amend the Rules of Procedure. However, during quite long a period in the past, we have seen the deterioration of order in the Legislative Council. This has demonstrated the absolute need for us to amend the Rules of Procedure for the second time. For that reason, I am happy to see that Mr Paul TSE has proposed the relevant motion.

President, after the movement of opposition to the relevant proposed legislative amendments and the pandemic which has lasted for more than one year, Hong Kong's vitality has been severely depleted. All sectors in society expect the Legislative Council to restore its effective operation as soon as possible. I consider shortening the speaking time and making a more precise and get-to-the-point speech is reasonable. The amendments can enhance the efficiency of the Legislative Council and expedite the passage of livelihood-related laws. The current proposals have taken into account the trend of the legislatures in other places. They therefore strike a good balance in that they can ensure the effective operation of the legislature and while not affecting Members' right to speak.

Some people say that the pro-establishment camp has taken advantage of the difficulties faced by the opposition camp by proposing the amendments, but I consider such remark unfair. It is because since 2008, the Legislative Council had been studying the practice of legislatures in many places, countries and common law jurisdictions. The amendments this time around are not targeting at any political groups or individual. These amendments are simply the appropriate methods to deal with the current situation. If the pro-establishment camp is letting this opportunity go in order to show its gentlemanly behaviour and to fail to bring order out of chaos, I think we are not living up to the expectations of the people of Hong Kong.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4663

President, Hong Kong is at the crossroad of economic development and it happens that this year is also the first of the National 14th Five-Year Plan. In the face of such opportunities as the construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area as well as the Belt and Road Initiative, the next few years are very critical. This is a once in a lifetime chance to Hong Kong. We should grasp it and leverage Hong Kong's advantages to meet the country's needs.

The amendments to the Rules of Procedure this time around are relevant to the relationship between the legislature and the Government, the efficiency of the Legislative Council in policy discussion, whether or not the SAR Government can effectively implement its policies according to the law and the fundamental interests of the public. For that reason, we must go ahead, to bring order out of chaos and to right the wrong. Besides, amending the Rules of Procedure has been the mainstream consensus in Hong Kong.

President, one of the duties of Members of the Legislative Council is to monitor the Government, not to paralyse its policy implementation. Members of the public expect us to convene meetings, not to cause abortion of meetings. We genuinely hope that by amending the Rules of Procedure this time around, we can resolve all contradictions in future through communication. If we can do more solid, I believe it is a blessing to the legislature and the public.

President, I so submit.

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, the Legislative Council is the legislature of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. Under the Basic Law, the main duties and functions of the Legislative Council are to enact, amend or repeal laws in accordance with the procedures, to examine and approve budgets, to approve taxation and public expenditure, and so on. The executive authorities, the legislature and the judiciary, being the integral parts forming the political regime of Hong Kong, have their respective duties and functions. If the legislature cannot operate normally so that the bills or funding applications related to public expenditure cannot be dealt with on time and thus the policies cannot be implemented, public interests will naturally be undermined, and the development of the economy, people's livelihood and the rule of law in Hong Kong will be affected.

4664 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

President, I have been a Member of this Council since 2008 and have witnessed the deterioration of parliamentary culture. This Council is no longer solemn, and quality democracy cannot be seen any more in the Legislative Council of Hong Kong. Instead, the parliamentary culture is deteriorating and the Council is getting more violent. The commotion in this Council of Hong Kong was often covered in international news. Hong Kong people, apart from feeling furious and sorrowful, actually find it more disheartening to notice the waste of a lot of time due to internal political conflicts and the weakening of our competitiveness. It the situation goes on, we are afraid that Hong Kong will become a second tier city of the Mainland.

President, citizens know pretty well about the commotion in this Council. If you search online, you can find the relevant figures. For example, during the term of the Legislative Council from 2016 to 2020, Members' filibusters in the Council meetings involved an abuse of 501 quorum calls, leading to abortion of 14 meetings. The most serious incident is of course the saga concerning the election of the Chairman of the House Committee. Owing to the serious delay in the election of the Chairman of the House Committee, a total of 93 pieces of subsidiary legislation were unable to be scrutinized by subcommittees set up within the amendment period, and certain pieces of legislation could not have their scrutiny finished due to time constraints. Of course, the situation is now better and the Council business can be handled due to the extension of our term of office for one more year. Hence, last year, when I gave a summing-up in my capacity as Chairman of the House Committee, I cited four major regrets. They were the turning of the House Committee into the main battleground for parliamentary confrontation, and as a result, those bills pertaining to people's livelihood were delayed or even sacrificed; the turning sour of the relationship between the executive authorities and the legislature; the escalation of violent conflicts in the legislature; and the failure in building a mutual trust relationship between Hong Kong and the Central Authorities. Back then, I highlighted clearly that with the new trends in society, a responsible legislature and responsible Members need to regularly review and update the Rules of Procedure ("RoP") so that we can adapt to the changes in the new era.

President, coming back to the subject today, the proposed amendments to RoP can be classified into five categories: first, sanction against grossly disorderly conduct of Members; second, specifying time limits on debates in Council and adjusting the length of Members' speeches by the President according to the situation; third, powers of the committee chairman in office to deal with normal business prior to the election of the committee chairman for a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4665 new session; fourth, fine-tuning the procedure for the adjournment of debate in the Council; and fifth, proposed amendments to prevent possible abuse of procedures.

Firstly, it is sanction against grossly disorderly conduct of Members. In fact, this part of discussion has already been going on in this Council for a very long time. Since the first banana was hurled by a Member in the Legislative Council and since the violent political farces in the Council were getting more serious, the public have been asking us many times to tighten the penalty and sanction against grossly disorderly conduct of Members. It is because we all know that in fact, the Member who has caused trouble can only be asked to leave the Chamber, and apart from asking him or her to leave the Chamber, there are no other alternatives in between, as also pointed out by some Members earlier. Therefore, this proposal is actually put forward to fill the vacuum in this respect.

President, as Members of the Legislative Council, when we deliberate … President, we are also cognizant that this amendment will fill the vacuum in this respect, because usually apart from asking the Member concerned to leave the Chamber, the most serious consequence is disqualification of that Member through a censure motion. President, we were rather cautious when discussing and studying the penalties in this aspect. We have considered not only the examples of other parliaments, but also the operation of the legislature as a whole.

President, In regard to specifying time limits on debates in Council, it is actually the duty of Members to engage in debates, and this is why many Members wish to be able to express their views in the Chamber without any restrictions. During the debate earlier and in the House Committee, some Members have also voiced this opinion, which is understandable. Nonetheless, having taken stock of the experience gained, we learnt that certain Members have exploited the rather wide margin of the existing RoP in delaying the processing of motions and opposing the motions so as to constrain the efficiency of the legislature.

Therefore, we need to strike a balance. We all know very well that within the time constraints of this Council, the legislation of various aspects in Hong Kong need to be kept up to date, many motions need to be discussed and many funding applications also need to be passed. Hence, a major challenge to this amendment exercise of RoP is how to ensure the smooth operation of this 4666 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Council. I am also aware that the Committee on Rules of Procedure has already made reference to the experience of the respective parliamentary institutions in the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the United States. In sum, many parliamentary institutions have also specified time limits on debates, and this is a rather common practice. The imposition of this regulation can, on one hand, allow Members to have more room for discussion in the Council and on the other hand, allow the Council to make a decision within a reasonable time frame. This is to prevent the Council from engaging in long discussions but without reaching any decision.

Different parliamentary institutions adopt different types of restrictions, but the common forms of specifying time limits on debates include limiting the overall debate time―President, this has also been adopted many times by you―limiting the total number of speeches delivered in a debate, and limiting the speaking time and the number of speeches per Member. These restrictions have also been adopted in different parliamentary institutions.

President, the third amendment is to respond to the saga in the House Committee. We are all very clear that the previous saga in the House Committee was attributed to the lack of explicit provision in RoP on the powers of the committee chairman in office to deal with normal business prior to the election of the committee chairman for a new session, and as a result, the meetings were incessantly delayed. I thus give my full support to this part of amendment.

President, RoP needs to keep abreast of the times, and in this exercise, every one of us has been rather cautious indeed. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank every colleague who has participated in the process of amending RoP, especially Members of the Committee on Rules of Procedure and colleagues from the Secretariat. All of them have spent a lot of time and efforts so that this amendment exercise of RoP can reach this stage. For the next stage, we will still have other amendments in relation to RoP. The legislature of Hong Kong needs to move forward and we need to properly take stock of the experience gained and be forward looking. We have all learnt that there will be a total of 90 seats in the next term of Legislative Council, and thus how to strike a balance will indeed be one of our coming significant tasks.

President, in recent years, the legislature has lost its effectiveness and has been unable to perform its various constitutional functions. Worse still, it even LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4667 became a major battleground for internal political friction, procrastinating the development of Hong Kong. For a long period of time, Hong Kong was in the impasse of internal political conflicts. Looking back at the development over the past two decades since the reunification, we have genuinely missed a lot of opportunities and have spent too much time on political bickering. During this period of time, our neighbouring cities and other competitors have been catching up, and now, Singapore, Shenzhen and even Macao have already overtaken Hong Kong in many fields. Alarm bells have actually been raised time and again for us. Recently, the Central Authorities could not put up with it any longer and took action. Hence, I really hope that through the amendment to RoP and the implementation of the "patriots administering Hong Kong" principle, political stability can be restored in Hong Kong, while the Legislative Council can really become an orderly and healthy platform for discussions such that Hong Kong can focus its efforts on economic development, on improving people's livelihood and on long-term planning.

With these remarks, I support the motion.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): We are now having a debate on the proposed resolution under Article 75 of the Basic Law to amend the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"). In regard to this amendment exercise of RoP, I am rather concerned about three aspects. But before I spell out my views, I have to make an apology, because concerning the area covered by this amendment exercise of RoP, frankly speaking, I have not studied in-depth the long-term impact of the amendments on the room for deliberation and deliberative culture in the Legislative Council. In the face of the recent passage of the Decision on amending Hong Kong's electoral system by the National People's Congress ("NPC"), we are now making amendments to RoP. I will not say that the latter is insignificant, because it actually will also have an impact. However, when making a comparison between them―I have to say sorry―since I have not done any in-depth study on this amendment exercise, if what I am going to say is not entirely correct, Members are welcome to correct me.

First of all, I consider that this amendment exercise, obviously in the part about the deliberation of bills and the deliberation of major motions, will directly stifle our remaining limited room for deliberation. Will this have an impact on our deliberative culture? I may ask the other way round: Do we still have any deliberative culture in our Council? I have to make clear two points―I think I 4668 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 have made myself very clear―the impact of this amendment exercise is that our remaining limited room for deliberation will be stifled. As regards whether our deliberative culture will be undermined, we have to ask what our deliberative culture is.

The process of making legislation by the legislature is just like writing an argumentative essay, and the formats of both are very similar. I have to spell out my stance towards the legislation concerned as to whether I give it my support. I need to present the arguments, justifications, factual substantiation, inferences and conclusion, and there are altogether five to six parts. In our RoP, the statutory procedures are translated into the First Reading, the Second Reading and the Third Reading. Of course, the parliament or congress of each place has its own practices, but the above is the basic format. Nevertheless, why do I say that this amendment exercise will undermine the deliberative culture or deprive us of the room for deliberation? It is because there is a principle behind deliberation or a presumption behind our scrutiny. It is presumed that in our Chamber, the more the subject is debated, the clearer it becomes.

What is meant by the more the subject is debated, the clearer it becomes? It is our wish that through deliberation or the debating process, we can, in respect of the five to six parts that I just mentioned, state clearly the rationale, the reasoning or the principles concerned. However, the word "clearer" in "the more the subject is debated, the clearer it becomes" does not refer to the pursuit of truth. The general notion about the legislature is that Members are looking for the greatest common divisor. In other words, each representative in the Council is representing a certain number of voters or a certain public opinion. In the pursuit of the greatest common divisor, how can Members reach a consensus or a community consensus? Hence simply put, "the more the subject is debated, the clearer it becomes" does not refer to the pursuit of truth or any scientific law, and this should be very clear to Members. It refers to the pursuit of the greatest common divisor or the common grounds.

Will this amendment exercise undermine the parliamentary culture? Frankly speaking, from the perspective of the Council, in terms of our parliamentary culture, there is already not much left. For instance, in the past when the opposition camp or the pro-democratic camp―relatively speaking, the pro-democratic camp rarely did this―when Members from the League of Social Democrats staged some parliamentary protests or made some gestures, they were actually making some moves in opposition or expressing their stance of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4669 opposition in response to the stifling of our deliberative culture, and this is not―I emphasize that this is not―the so-called deliberative culture in our general understanding. Therefore, if we single this episode out, strictly speaking, our Council has long been a stance-expressing Council. In regard to certain acts or behaviour like fighting, they fall into another subject of discussion. Nonetheless, we have to understand one point: If this Council does not have any opposition camp or pro-democratic camp, will our deliberative culture be restored? Members will understand after listening to the example from yesterday.

Yesterday, we had a debate on the motion about the co-location arrangement at the Huanggang Port, and during deliberation, Members expressed their respective arguments. There was something beyond my expectation―President was also in the Chamber. I have spoken seven and a half minutes on this motion which I think is an ordinary and common motion. To put it plainly, I think this motion on the co-location arrangement at the Huanggang Port debated yesterday has nothing to do with the jurisdiction of Hong Kong―it is different from the practice in West Kowloon Station where a certain area has to be allocated for law enforcement by the Mainland officers―but is about the enforcement of the laws of Hong Kong in Shenzhen. I have no idea why people have to be so sensitive or why there should be such a strong reaction in society. Hence, I think this is a very ordinary and common motion. But why do I think that our deliberative culture does not exist? Because this is not simply the expression of stances by Members only. It is important to indicate your stance, because if no one knows your stance, it will be your problem. However, what is beyond my expectation is the response from the Government―Secretary John LEE―to my speech yesterday, and what he said is not the kind of deliberation in our understanding. He singled out a phrase or two from my speech and then said that I was pulling the wool over the eyes of the public. I said that we basically did not need to spend two to three hours debating such an ordinary and common motion, but he has to express his stance.

Therefore, why do I say that the deliberative culture of our Council has all gone? The Government has to express its own stance to indicate how radical it is. This is its choice but it should not distort my remarks. On the other hand, we are actually also responsible for this.

In the past, why has the Council turned into one where Members were only used to expressing their stances, chanting slogans or even making one or two 4670 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 gestures? In fact, all Members are also responsible for this. The voters will select a Member of their own kind―of course, if there is still any election. In my speech yesterday, I said that for such an ordinary motion, it was unnecessary to spend so much time to deliberate. As a result, Apple Daily thought that I found it unnecessary to ask for a division and made a news story on this―but actually to a certain extent, I am already used to it.

Why would this happen? Our deliberative culture is empty. It is because we do not understand that deliberation itself is for the purpose of making things clear instead of simply expressing our stances. It is important to express your stance, because other people need to know what your stance is. But the problem is that theoretically, our Council is a reflection of the entire community, and our Members represent different parts or strata of the community. If Members only express their stances, what will happen? If there is only expression of stances, it would be unnecessary to amend RoP for the suspension of a Member's service. Concerning the amendment on suspension of a Member's service, we discuss it openly and legally today. In regard to empowering the President of this Council to impose a so-called penalty of suspension in addition to ordering a certain Member to leave the Chamber, before the amendment of the law by NPC, I would find this approach absurd. Because if the President asks me to leave the Chamber, and then says that I will be suspended from my duties as a Member of the Council and also have the chance to be fined, this certainly is stifling the room for deliberation. In that case, I will say less but just express my stance. I will come here to speak, and end my speech by making a gesture. The picture was the same yesterday, as Members were merely expressing their stances, and this was the situation.

Nevertheless, after legislative amendments by NPC, I do not understand what effect in your mind this amendment can practically achieve. Shortly afterwards, an eligibility review committee will be established for screening the candidates for the Legislative Council election. If there is still a Member who will do anything here that you think is against the rules and then you have to ask him to leave the Chamber as a punishment, I will query whether the threshold of being patriots is too low. Before the legislative amendment by NPC, I thought that this amendment exercise seemed to be for the purpose of stifling the limited room of survival of the minority, even though only eight to ten such Members remain in the Council. But this has to be done to play safe, anyway. However, as we understand, since there will be patriots administering Hong Kong in the future Council, then this amendment may be … how to describe it? It is better LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4671 safe than sorry, but this amendment may be superfluous … What? Do you say that I seem to support this amendment? Hence, it is significant to make my stance clear.

In regard to the restriction on the motions for the adjournment of the Council moved without notice at a meeting, frankly speaking, I find it problematic. As a matter of fact, other than the Legislative Council meetings held on Wednesdays and Thursdays, we do not have much room for the general public of Hong Kong, other countries and even the Beijing authorities to understand what is happening in Hong Kong. The Legislative Council is a place for Members to get together to immediately respond to the issues of Hong Kong. Concerning the motions for the adjournment of the Council moved without notice, I think if the President is empowered―he actually has the power―to impose restrictions, he in fact will be restraining himself with a straitjacket even after the future amendment to the political system of Hong Kong.

Let me illustrate with a simple example. Before the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance in 2019, some Members from the pro-establishment camp had also proposed motions for the adjournment of the Council. Why? Because this was not the simple situation of a group of Members trying to stir troubles, but some legislation, if passed, would truly have an impact on the interests of certain industries or on something important to Hong Kong at that time. However, the amendment now of course refers to giving power to the President to make a judgment. But by this logic, in the Third Reading of a bill, if the President is empowered to restrict the speaking time of Members, this will be underestimating the President's ability to judge whether a Member's speech is too lengthy or his arguments too repetitive. Under the original arrangement, a Member can have 15 minutes of speaking time during the Third Reading, but the President has to impose restriction because he says that the time for the debate will be too long. Nonetheless, there will be 90 Members in the future, and we should have already expected that the time for the debate will be even longer, and hence the speaking time for a Member may be reduced from 15 minutes to 5 minutes or 7 minutes.

In my opening remarks, I mentioned about the meaning of deliberative culture, and the most important part is not about expressing the stance or purely the expression of your personal stance. You present your arguments, substantiation and inferences, but the crux is the conclusion, right? Let us assume that this legislature is really democratically elected or is genuinely 4672 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 representative. During the Third Reading of a bill, we presume that the bill has already gone through the discussion process or the process of debate in which the subject has become clearer. In the Third Reading, a Member can take this opportunity to give a conclusion as to whether he supports a certain amendment or a motion. In other words, deliberation itself allows us to have some room at the end to give a conclusion. Besides, due to the restrictions in the design, not everyone could listen to my views expressed in the bills committee concerned, and you could listen to my views only during the Council meeting. For instance, do I support a total ban on electronic cigarettes, or do I support the regulation on heated tobacco products but a ban on electronic cigarettes? In another scenario, I have not joined the bills committee concerned, and could only express my views during the discussion of the bill at the Council meeting. After listening to my conclusion and justifications, you may agree with me. Let me give you an example, when there is an age restriction in regard to buggery in Hong Kong, why are citizens at the age of 18 or above not trusted to be able to determine whether they should smoke? This is against common sense, right? After listening to my speech, you may adjust your conclusion.

Therefore, concerning the amendment to restrict the speaking time of Members during the Third Reading, it has underestimated the ability of President, because you have the ability to determine whether the Third Reading debate is excessively long and the arguments are repetitive. The present design is to reduce the original speaking time of 15 minutes to 5 minutes, which is an unnecessary amendment. In our Council, there is already too much expression of stances. You are impatient of Members' expression of stances and wish to change certain things through the amendment exercise―although this sounds a little ridiculous, this is the design. However, when the last part is now cut off while the front part is still kept for Members to express their stances, is it not what happened yesterday? Yesterday, Members did nothing but expressed their stances. Nevertheless, I reiterate that it is important to express your stance. I so submit.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): President, since the Occupy Central movement, the "mutual destruction camp" waged a "filibuster battle" by taking advantage of the loopholes in the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"), which had rendered the Legislative Council in a semi-paralysed state on many occasions, and brought down legislative work for the purpose of dragging down the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4673

Government so that Hong Kong would fall into the trap of "mutual destruction". Their filibuster reached its zenith in 2019 with the behaviour of the "mutual destruction-camp" Members getting more violent and radical. It had become common to see them charge at security staff. They even resorted to throwing rotten eggs. How ridiculous. According to statistics, from 2016 to 2020, their filibustering tactics included abusing the procedure by calling quorum counts for over 500 times, causing the abortion of 17 meetings with at least 14 bills being delayed.

In fact, in order to suppress the wave of filibuster, the amendments to 24 items in RoP moved by pro-establishment Members were passed by the Legislative Council in 2017, and two items in the Finance Committee Procedure were also amended in 2018, for the purpose of narrowing down the room for filibustering. The "mutual destruction camp" showed some restraint at the beginning, but very soon, they racked their brains to come up with different filibustering tactics. The most classic one was their obstruction of the election of the Chairman of the House Committee ("HC"). Since the original HC Chairman, Ms Starry LEE, ran for election, according to RoP, the then HC Deputy Chairman, Mr Dennis KWOK, should preside over HC meetings. Yet, he chaired the meetings in his very special ways in order to delay the election, such as not setting any limit on the time and scope of members' speeches. As a result, HC still failed to elect its Chairman after seven months. That was unprecedented.

Eventually, the President stepped in by specifying me as the member presiding at the HC meeting after seeking legal advice. I also thank him for specifying that we should proceed straight to balloting and should not hear points of order. The new HC Chairman was successfully elected in the end. In fact, in my memory, it was very chaotic and violent on that day. The meeting was scheduled for 2:30 pm. The door of the conference room was usually opened at 2:00 pm, and I was already sitting on the Chairman's seat by then. A group of Members stormed in and shouted at me with abusive and humiliating words. As Chairman, I could not turn on the microphone to refute them. I could only put up with them. But I do not think I was the one who suffered the most, the security staff were, as they had to physically confront some Members who messed around in front of … the security staff who had to resist their charge. It was even harder for female security staff. In the past few years and in this incident, talking about the storming of the Council, people who suffered the most 4674 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 were the Secretary General, Legal Advisers and colleagues of the Legislative Council Secretariat for they faced very unreasonable accusations or even personal attacks. The security staff were even more helpless as they were directly confronted by those Members. So I think their professionalism in handling chaos in these few years is worthy of commendation.

After discussion among colleagues, the Committee on Rules of Procedure proposes eight amendments, five of them involve RoP which are going to be considered and voted on today, and three involve the House Rules ("HP"). The five amendments under discussion today include suspending Members with grossly disorderly conduct from service and deducting their remuneration during the suspension period; specifying time limits on debates in the Council and adjusting the length of Members' speeches; granting the chairman/deputy chairman in office all the powers that may be exercised by the chairman/deputy chairman of the committee concerned until the chairman for the next session is elected; fine-tuning the procedure for the adjournment of debate in the Council; and the fifth one, introducing amendments to prevent possible abuse of procedures.

A "red card" system is also introduced in the proposed amendments. If the President is of the opinion that his powers under Rule 45(2) (Order in Council and Committee) are inadequate with respect to the grossly disorderly conduct of a member, the President may name such Member. The President's deputy may then move a motion that should be voted on forthwith without amendment or debate. Should the motion be passed, the concerned Member will be suspended from service. The duration of the suspension is one week on first occasion and will be extended gradually on subsequent occasions. His/her remuneration will also be withheld during the suspension period. This amendment sounds harsh, but I deem it necessary. I have presided over Finance Committee meetings for many years and have been subject to unreasonable attacks for many times. As Chairman, there is nothing I can do about it. I can tolerate personal humiliation, but such behaviour has interfered with the work of different meetings. We can see that Hong Kong really lagged behind other places in the past few years owing to the disruption in the Council. Members wanted to raise many issues but they did not dare to do so. While submission of proposals to the Legislative Council was a big deal, Members did not even dare to raise issues at that time. The fact LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4675 that Hong Kong is moving backward, or even not able to move forward, has much to do with such behaviour.

Why did they dare to charge at the President Podium? Because we did not enforce the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance seriously in the past, and RoP was actually a toothless tiger. Even if Members had grossly disorderly conduct, they would only be ordered to leave the Chamber at most, and they could attend the meeting again the next day. It was even more ridiculous before when Members could go back to the meetings several times within a day. The Council did not impose much punishment on Members. On the contrary, after extensive media coverage on their behaviour in the Council, they were treated as heroes. Seeing that they take more than they give, more and more Members followed suit, and their behaviour got more and more violent. It was the system that made them do so. Now that with the "red card" and remuneration deduction system, I believe that the deterrent effect will be greater.

Another area of concern is adjusting the length of Members' speeches. We all know that the President can set the time limit to four hours in maximum for speeches, and 1.5 hours for the adjournment of the Council. In respect of the speaking time of each Member on motions, the amended one will be shorter. Some Members find it too short as they fear that they may not have enough time to speak. I think we have to speak more concisely in the future. In fact, we very often do not need 10-odd minutes to make a speech. If Members can speak for 2 to 3 minutes to deliver the same effect as a 10-minute speech, it will draw more attention as people's attention span is very short. Three minutes is very long already. If you speak for over 10 minutes, who would listen to you attentively? I think a concise speech lasting a few minutes will be more effective. On the other hand, I believe that the President will exercise his discretion as appropriate. When we discuss complicated issues, the speaking time may not be enough. I believe that the President will handle it flexibly by discretion. From a practical point of view, shortening the speaking time is inevitable given that the number of Legislative Council Members will increase to 90.

President, RoP of the Legislative Council has generally been following the one used by the Legislative Council with some amendments over the time. Back then, Members were all well-behaved because appointment 4676 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 system was adopted. If they made a mess in the Council, they would not be appointed again. So, RoP and HR were simply "gentlemen's agreements" with relatively lenient provisions that all Members followed spontaneously. However, in the past few years, some Members proved in action that they would not respect RoP, so we must write down clearer rules to stop them from making use of the loopholes therein. What I say is in fact very sad because the best way is for Members to exercise self-control. However, if we do not tighten the rules, they may make use of the loopholes and abuse the rules concerned as much as possible, which will harm the Council, all colleagues and Hong Kong. In my opinion, we have the responsibility to plug the loopholes in RoP and it is also necessary to do it, so, I support this Motion. Thank you, President.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of the proposed resolution under Article 75 of the Basic Law to amend the Rules of Procedure ("RoP") moved by Mr Paul TSE, Chairman of the Committee on Rules of Procedure.

President, in order to bring a rational and solemn legislature back to society, the pro-establishment camp succeeded in amending RoP in December 2017 after spending a lot of efforts, with a view to reducing irrational filibusters so that the Legislative Council could keep abreast of the times and be back on the right track. Before June 2019, we could still notice the effect of that previous amendment exercise, and the overall operation of the Legislative Council was rather smooth. This was particularly attributed to the amendments which have empowered the President to order that a meeting will be convened soon after a meeting is aborted for dealing with the rest of the agenda items, and also empowered the President to rule that a joint debate shall be conducted on certain motions. The above measures have greatly reduced the room for filibustering.

However, in order to achieve certain political motives, the opposition camp interpreted RoP inappropriately and availed itself of the loopholes by every means. During the last legislative session, the opposition camp hijacked the entire legislature politically. Mr Dennis KWOK, a former Member, who was tasked to host the election of the Chairman of House Committee, kept on exploiting the procedures. Due to his abuse of power and violation of the rules, the House Committee Chairman could still not be elected after seven-odd months, leading to a standstill of the Legislative Council and the accumulation of many LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4677 important bills and proposals pertaining to people's livelihood and infrastructure. This was strongly condemned by public opinions. Due to COVID-19, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress passed a decision to extend the term of office of the Sixth Legislative Council. Nevertheless, Members from the opposition camp, who could be back to the legislature, continued to go astray and be regardless of people's livelihood. Before their collective resignation, they continued to filibuster on some non-controversial bills, such as the bill about container specifications and the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2019. During the deliberation of the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2019, the opposition camp asked for a quorum call every half an hour, and some of its Members digressed seriously when they spoke, leading to abortion of the Council meetings for three weeks in a row. This has severely wasted the time of Hong Kong people and public money, and has impeded the socio-economic development of Hong Kong and the implementation of people's livelihood measures.

To ensure that the Legislative Council can operate in an orderly and highly efficient manner in future, we must amend RoP to further plug the loopholes and prevent recurrence of the chaotic scenes in the Chamber. With respect to the grossly disorderly conduct of a Member, the existing sanction under RoP 45(2)―i.e. the Member concerned shall be ordered to withdraw immediately from the Council or the committee for the remainder of that meeting―is inadequate in dealing with the grossly disorderly conduct committed by a Member in a Legislative Council meeting. In the community, many members of the public have grievances on the outrageous manners of some Members in the Chamber for the purpose of achieving their ulterior political motives. They also query why these Members, after committing grossly disorderly conduct, could still swagger outside the Chamber, acting like nothing worse had ever happened, and be free from any restrictions. The sanction mechanism is drawn up with reference to the systems adopted by overseas legislatures like the House of Commons of the United Kingdom and the Bundestag. It is a new way of punishment under which the penalty is subject to an escalating scale of severity and a financial penalty would be imposed for period of suspension on a pro-rata basis. This is conducive to enhancing the deterrent effect of the penalties with a view to regulating the behaviour of Members.

President, the time of Legislative Council meetings is precious. In practice, in the agenda arrangement of the Legislative Council meetings in each year, excluding the time for the debate of the Policy Address and the Budget as 4678 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 well as the holidays, not much time is left for the deliberation of bills. Members need to use the meeting time well and carry out their legislative work in a highly efficient way and with quality. In this legislative session, only 13 scheduled Council meetings, including this one today, are left, and two of them will be required to deal with the Budget debate. That means there are only 11 meetings to deal with the legislative work on the bills, and for the moment, 30 bills are still pending for scrutiny. Besides, the Chief Executive has also expressed her wish to accomplish five pieces of legislation within her term of office. They include legislation on the incorporation of District Councils in the requirement in respect of oath-taking by public officers, the admission of qualified non-locally trained Hong Kong doctors, tenancy control on subdivided units, anti-doxxing and the improvement to fire safety for old buildings. The tight schedule for legislative arrangement is also coupled with heavy workloads. In terms of the time limits on debates in Council and the length of Members' speeches, in accordance with the nature of bills and motions, Members' speaking time and the time limits on debates will be adjusted appropriately. A Member's speaking time will be reduced from 15 minutes to three to 10 minutes. This can encourage Members to make concise speeches with a view to enhancing the efficiency of the Council in transacting business. At the same time, under Article 72(1) of the Basic Law, when the President of the Legislative Council is exercising the power and function of presiding over meetings, he shall exercise his discretion. The proposed amendments also include empowering the President to adjust the time limits on debates with his discretion. This is to supplement the proposed amendment concerning the length of Members' speeches in order to strike a balance and enable the Council to discharge its constitutional functions properly.

To prevent recurrence of the incidents similar to the one last year when the House Committee Chairman was unable to be elected for a very long time, the proposed amendments empower the committee chairman in office to deal with normal business prior to the election of the committee chairman for a new session. The proposed amendments also include fine-tuning the procedure for the adjournment of debate in the Council. There is also a series of proposed amendments to prevent possible abuse of procedures. In the past during the Third Reading debate, some Members discussed again the general merits and principles of the bill, or the proposed amendments to or individual provisions of the bill, which should had been discussed at the Second Reading debate. This is not only a departure from the original intent of separating the procedure into Second Reading debate and Third Reading debate of the bill, but also a waste of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4679 time of the Council. The proposed regulation on the speeches of Members at the Third Reading debate is conducive to enhancing the quality of Members' speeches and the legislative efficiency.

President, this amendment exercise aims to propose targeted amendments to RoP and to address issues like speaking time, as RoP has been abused in recent years by the opposition camp. The proposed amendments have also struck a reasonable and proper balance between parliamentarians' right in the discussion of political issues and the fulfilment of constitutional duties and social responsibilities of the Legislative Council. In my view, the amendment exercise has not undermined the functions of the legislature. On the contrary, through bringing order out of chaos, it is conducive to our return to reasoning and enhancing the overall quality and efficiency of the Council, with a view to promoting the overall interests and development of Hong Kong. I support this motion.

President, the pro-establishment camp of the Legislative Council will review the existing RoP from time to time, and will propose amendments where necessary with a view to preserving the sanctity of the Legislative Council as well as improving the system, operation and order of the Legislative Council as a whole.

President, I so submit.

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, Article 75 of the Basic Law provides that the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region may make its rules of procedure on its own. The wording "make … on its own" implies the conferment of trust with a high degree of autonomy on the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region whereby we may cultivate a deliberative culture that ties in with Hong Kong's characteristics.

I remember that before joining the Legislative Council, I found the Legislative Council to be solemn and respectable, and being a Legislative Council Member was an honourable status to people and Members themselves. Why is the distinguished title "Honourable" used? Why is this distinguished title used? The reason is that people and the community cherish expectation of us.

4680 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

President, during the 13 years from 2008 to 2021, everybody can honestly see the degradation of our parliamentary culture. I remember that soon after joining the Legislative Council, I already witnessed in the Chamber how former Legislative Council Member WONG Yuk-man hurled the first banana. He said that the hurling of the banana was the reason for his successful fight for the "fruit grant". This was how the Pandora's box was opened. At a meeting of the Committee on Rules of Procedure ("CRoP") back then, I already proposed that a yellow and red card system should be put in place, and I have also participated in CRoP all along. Since 2008, I have drawn reference from the rules of procedure in other countries (whether they practise common law or statutory law) and come to realize that the requirements in the Rules of Procedure of the Hong Kong Legislative Council are very lenient. In other places, a suspension order can be made, together with different levels of penalty. Besides, the speaker is given much discretion and may make an effective judgment based on the political circumstances in the community and also the situation in the legislature.

Back in 2011, the degradation of the Rules of Procedure set in, and it can be said that I was one of the protagonists at that time. At the time, five Legislative Council Members avowed that they would initiate a campaign called "Resignation en masse of Members returned from five geographical constituencies to trigger a de facto referendum". After resignation, they hastened to stand for the by-elections of the Legislative Council. Because of this, the speaking order in the Legislative Council would have to be determined after the conclusion of the election involving those five Members. This was downright a farcical show. Apart from wasting public money, it also created a huge temptation for other Members because they might think that they could resort to resignation to voice out their inner thoughts without any cost. Therefore, I proposed a private bill to amend the Legislative Council Ordinance, so as to stipulate that a resigning Member shall be forbidden to stand for any by-election in the same term. This aroused huge controversy in the whole community, and I was also subject to personal attacks on all fronts from the media during prime time and all sorts of rampant smears. In the end, the Government took on board my amendment proposal and made some adjustment to stipulate that a resigning Member shall not stand for any by-election until half a year later. This was very lenient. In fact, I thought that a prohibition of one term was reasonable.

Under these circumstances, the opposition camp staged its first filibustering campaign and proposed 1 306 amendments. We once heard them read out LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4681

Buddhist scriptures and Bible verses in the Chamber overnight. All this should not have taken place in the Chamber, and they did so for the sole purpose of filibustering. Filibustering is like a virus that has come to infect new Members one term after another, and it has turned into a norm. The ringing of the summoning bell is not only annoying to the public but also shameful to Legislative Council Members in the course of deliberation.

I still remember that when Alvin YEUNG joined the Legislative Council for the very first time after winning a by-election, I expected this rising star from the opposition camp to play to his strengths. I had never expected that he would request a headcount once he set foot in the Chamber. I once started conversations with new Members, especially those without any political affiliations. I told them to this effect: "They have resorted to extreme means and utterly spun out of control. This is like jumping off the political cliff and will plunge them into deep trouble sooner or later." But manipulating the proceedings is like abusing drugs, and they could not stop themselves.

I once talked to an incumbent Member at the time, who was imprisoned later on. I asked him why he did not propose any motions or oral questions after joining the legislature. He himself cherished many political ideals, so I asked him why he was so obsessed with uncivilized acts after joining the legislature, such as hurling objects, snatching things, flinging drinking glasses, stealing ballot papers from the ballot box, pouring stinking liquid and hurling stinking substances. I went on to ask him why he did not make good use of his capacity as a Member. I still remember what he told me at the time. He said to this effect: "Even though I do not have any political affiliations, I am an opposition Member. Nobody has ever taught me how to propose motions, and our actions are bundled up." This was what he did after joining the legislature.

Just now, I listened attentively to Dr CHENG Chung-tai's speech. I think we must treasure his speech because he represents … This term is his first tenure, and I believe he is one of those Members who think that the purpose of joining the legislature is to do something like this. I once moved a motion under Rule 49B of the Rules of Procedure to inquire into his misconduct.

I wish to say something to Dr CHENG Chung-tai or those who are still willing to heed our speeches. Honestly, the Rules of Procedure should not be amended casually or arbitrarily. In the old days, it was extremely difficult to invoke Rule 49B of the Rules of Procedure to censure a Member in the legislature. As I remember, that particular rule was invoked for the very first 4682 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 time to inquire into the incident involving KAM Nai-wai. At the time, both sides were very serious, and an inquiry was held into his misconduct not so much because he was a Member of the opposite side. All Members were returned from election and commanded a popular mandate. We did not want to do this, but the result of the inquiry is like "eating", in the sense that KAM was not subjected to any consequences.

As in the case of the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance ("the Ordinance"), I am among the few pro-establishment Members who have proposed to invoke the Ordinance for forming a select committee on two occasions. The first occasion took place shortly after I joined the Legislative Council as a Member in 2008. I joined hands with the opposition camp and succeeded in forming a select committee under the Ordinance in the end to address the Lehman incident. The inquiry into the Lehman incident spanned a solid four years. Various Members were like students learning about the financial system, and in the end, we facilitated the conclusion of a settlement and the setting up of the Financial Dispute Resolution Centre, and the legislation relating to the banking industry was also amended. This is rather what we need to do for people's livelihood. On the second occasion, I decided to withdraw my notice at the end of the day because under the prevailing political atmosphere, the legislature no longer saw the need to invoke the Ordinance for inquiring into the social upheaval resulting from the anti-legislative amendment incident in 2019. I hope that when Members want to draw this imperial sword, their intention is for the well-being of society rather than just for fun.

As the opposition camp has kept jumping the queue by proposing motions under the Ordinance―I believe many new Members (including pro-establishment Members) probably have not joined any select committees formed under the Ordinance―many people consider the relevant proceedings to be undesirable and dreadful. Actually, I think it is regrettable to see the development of things into the present state. In my view, Members should treasure this imperial sword because since the reunification, the design of Hong Kong's Basic Law and its provisions has not changed, and the attitude of the Central Authorities has not changed either, only that serious abuse of this proceeding has occurred in the legislature, so people begin to feel that there are problems with the operation of the three powers in Hong Kong.

Under the relevant design, Hong Kong never practises separation of powers with the Westminster or American style. Some may ask: "When somebody talks about separation of powers, and even some judges also use 'separation of powers', LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4683 why haven't the Central Authorities taken any actions to correct them?" In fact, the Central Authorities have treated Hong Kong with boundless tolerance and patience, and they do not want to take any actions directly. The division of duties among the three powers in Hong Kong has always been clear, with mutual checks and balances. At a recent symposium, representatives of the Central Authorities once again expressed their hope for a healthy division of duties among the three powers with mutual checks and balances. "Division of duties" among the three powers does not mean the segregation of the three powers or the paralysis of any side's operation.

When Dennis KWOK presided at the election of the House Committee Chairman, I was very disappointed because he was returned by the legal profession after all and should not adopt such an utterly disgraceful way. I was also ashamed of his conduct because he was returned by the legal profession. But the process could completely show that he was unable to make an independent judgment, and he simply followed those reckless Members advocating "mutual destruction" in trying to bring about "mutual destruction" to the election and the Rules of Procedure. The result is, understandably, that it becomes necessary to amend the Rules of Procedure. Otherwise, if we fail to interpret the Rules of Procedure correctly … I have all along maintained that he must not do so. If he found himself unfit to preside at the election, he should stand down and let the Member who was the preceding House Committee Chairman preside at the election. Now, we have to make things very explicit and clear as a means to prevent similar people from presiding at chairman elections in the future.

The amendment of the Rules of Procedure is a response to the problems that have arisen. As I remember, the Legislative Council Secretariat once said that that a normal deliberative culture manifested itself only in one form, but there were many abnormal cases, so the Rules of Procedure was originally drawn up as a gentleman's agreement with the intention of laying down a civilized way of doing things. But some have lost control in the process, so the virus has spread around to the point of almost paralysing the legislature.

I really want to say something here. I know that the future President of the Legislative Council and Chairman of the House Committee will have to take up important tasks in the long way ahead. I still hope to see "the ball passed around" in the legislature, the pro-establishment camp versus the opposition camp like France taking on Brazil, and Members deliver quality speeches. Therefore, the judgment of the future President must be accurate, and he should allow 4684 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 sufficient time for Members with dissenting opinions to express their views, so that they may represent people and play to their strengths. As I remember, WONG Yuk-man was the first to use "sit and wait for money" to describe university professors. I once said to him: "Yuk-man, the Hong Kong legislature is always lack of such a sense of humour. You should use your talents in these areas and express your views through words rather than by disgraceful means." Under his immense influence, a Member even snatched the mobile phone from a public officer, not knowing how to express his views verbally. In the legislature of some western countries, there may also be cases where a member who was unable to sense the mockery of him right at that moment can only realize it afterwards and swallow it.

I hope media organizations―I hope they can hear my appeal―can refrain from encouraging physical conflicts through their eyes. On the part of Members, they should also refrain from learning from Taiwan's parliamentary culture, the kind of culture that Hong Kong used to despise. There was an incident where two members beat up each other with a rod in the assembly hall―Japan's legislators later followed suit―and inflicted bleeding injuries on each other as they thought that this was the only way to attract media coverage. But after the meeting, the two members involved could behave very friendly towards each other outside the assembly hall as they were only "putting up a show" just now. I once talked to a Taiwan legislator with a German doctorate title in an interview. He said that he would also do the same thing because of the media's liking for such things in reporting.

We propose to amend the Rules of Procedure with much reluctance, and we do not want to make casual amendments to it. But I hope that in the future, new Members―we wish to see the participation of Members with different thoughts―can share the same goal with us and protect our rules, to say the very least. That way, we can engage in a high-level competition and enable people to see that the Legislative Council … The current situation is honestly miserable as, somewhat inexplicably, people no longer call us "Legislative Council". We have heard people refer to us as "you people in this rubbish Council" on numerous occasions. Members should join hands together, so as to return to people a rational, civilized Legislative Council with dignity, a high quality and a sense of commitment that is answerable to the public.

President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4685

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): President, I rise to speak in support of the proposed resolution moved by Mr Paul TSE under Article 75 of the Basic Law that the Rules of Procedure ("RoP") be amended.

Here, I would like to thank once again the Chairman and members of the Committee on Rules of Procedure, the Legislative Council Secretariat and the Legal Adviser for preparing today's proposed resolution after conducting numerous studies. This amendment exercise will help restrain some Members' grossly disorderly conduct to the effect that the efficiency and solemnity of the Legislative Council will not be undermined by their conduct, thereby enhancing the deliberative functions of the Council and restoring rational discussions by the entire Council.

President, there are indeed loopholes in RoP. As seen in the past, for those Members who had violated RoP, the President could only expel them from the Chamber. This move, in fact, could not deter them from committing acts of nuisance. In the past few years, we have witnessed frequent use of the loopholes in RoP by Members belonging to the opposition camp who sought to paralyse the Council by various means, such as filibustering which was familiar to us, moving adjournment motions, making quorum calls, etc., which had a devastating impact on Hong Kong.

As criticized by the public, these acts are not only a waste of taxpayers' money, but also a drag on society's development since a lot of motions beneficial to society and people's livelihood have been delayed or failed to gain passage in the Council. Wage earners live from hand to mouth, and while they were struggling to get by, Members belonging to the opposition camp just did not stop but even overstepped the mark to further interfere with the operation of the Council, thus giving rise to imbalances in the legislature. Their intention of seeking mutual destruction has indeed get people very hot under the collar.

President, let us take a look at history: In 1996, a precedent was set for Members to disrupt the order of the Council by the then Legislative Council Member Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung when he made the remark, "stinky pits breed foul-smelling grasses". Later, in 2008, there came instances of hurling bananas, sweeping desks, launching vituperative attacks, and using foul language at meetings. In 2010, the opposition camp even sought a "de facto referendum" through the "resignation en masse of Members returned from five geographical constituencies ("GC")". Such a "great show" that they had put up eventually led to nothing but a waste of public money. They then made their way back to the legislature through GC by-elections. Since then, the opposition camp had been 4686 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 causing trouble all the time, where those who continued to cause trouble remain the same trouble-makers as before.

Members may still remember that the funding application for the Hong Kong Section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link ("XRL") in January 2010 was delayed for more than two months because of the filibuster by Members. Moreover, during the scrutiny of the Legislative Council (Amendment) Bill 2012, Members belonging to the opposition camp even submitted 1 306 amendments (consisting of 2 464 pages), deliberately delaying voting on the motion on replacement mechanism for filling vacancies in the Legislative Council. The Legislative Council has since entered an era of filibuster. Apart from the filibustering at Council meetings by Members belonging to the opposition camp, filibuster has also spread to meetings of the Finance Committee and other Panels. The only one overall objective of those Members was to drag on the overall development of Hong Kong by preventing a lot of livelihood issues from being dealt with in a timely manner. The public's comment on them is rather straightforward: "Wishing to see the whole world in chaos, the opposition camp is killing Hong Kong!"

President, despite the amendments made to RoP last year, they still failed to ensure smooth conduct of the Council's proceedings. Just now, some Members have also mentioned that the election of the Chairman of the House Committee ("HC") had been unexpectedly delayed for as long as half a year. Their purpose was so simple: Apart from obstructing the election of the HC Chairman, they also wanted to prevent this Council from resuming the Second Reading debate on the National Anthem Bill. In addition, some Members also resorted to different tactics, such as hurling stink bombs, storming the President Podium and even using "black-clad violence" to obstruct the normal operation of the Council. Frankly speaking, members of the public were, catching sight of all their acts, well aware of what they were actually doing.

All the above serves to prove once again that there are still many loopholes in RoP, which must be plugged. Our legislature has evolved from so strict a place back then (where a Member could be expelled from the Chamber for making certain remark) to the Legislative Council of today that the President can do nothing even if Members rush over to the President Podium to fight. Members of the public expect the Legislative Council to be a solemn place for deliberation of serious matters, but the present situation is so ridiculous that it has completely failed to meet the expectations of all Hong Kong people.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4687

President, members of the public would like me to relay to the Council these words on their behalf: "How can one sweep the whole world to make it clean if one's house is not swept and kept clean?" If the Legislative Council is not even capable of managing itself properly, how can it monitor the Government and speak up for the people? Members must have credibility. When working in local neighbourhoods, I am often asked by members of the public: "Wilson, why is the Legislative Council in such a mess that even the classroom order of primary schools is better? Why do you not do something about it?" Besides, I was also asked where the many Members had gone after making all the noise and fuss in the Chamber. They queried where those Members had gone and wondered if they had gone to have tea.

We absolutely have no idea about all this in fact, but they pointed out to me the most important thing: "Wilson, no matter if they have gone for tea or a meal after leaving the Chamber, they were still paid a salary together with other allowances and were paid by the public coffers!" Frankly speaking, quite many members of the public have already indicated that they might even not be able to get "fruit grant" or keep their jobs nowadays. And so, how are we supposed to uphold the principle of fairness if the loopholes in RoP are not plugged?

President, my explanation at that time was pretty simple. I told them that since RoP was a gentleman's agreement that only meant for gentlemen, it did not serve the purpose of restraining the villains. The local residents were so smart that they asked me, "Wilson, why not have the rules amended accordingly as you know this is the case?" I was indeed speechless then. Frankly speaking, people have all seen how the Members belonging to the opposition camp have tried with their might to stop us from introducing amendments to RoP. Fortunately, we are now able to proceed to right the wrongs after lengthy discussions, so as to allow the return of rational discussions in the Council.

I would like to reiterate that righting the wrongs is the wish of all Hong Kong people. They hope that through introducing amendments to RoP, smooth operation of the Legislative Council can be resumed and its efficiency in assisting the Government in policy implementation can be enhanced. I believe that Members of this Council, as people's representatives in the legislature, do have to be accountable to the public. This is also something that all quarters of society wish to see.

4688 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

President, the proposed amendments to RoP are divided into three aspects: first, suspension of service; second, imposition of financial sanctions; and third, prevention of filibuster. When I sought the views of members of the public on the proposed amendments, they expressed the strongest views on financial sanctions, which they thought should be imposed on a Member whose conduct was grossly disorderly. They became very interested upon hearing the term "financial sanctions" and said, "Serves them right! They should not be paid any salary and their salaries should be deducted instead because they were there to play and not work." They said so because their wages will also be deducted by their employers if they themselves are absent from work. President, when I showed this leaflet to residents of local neighbourhoods for consultation at neighbourhood level―despite the fact that its contents were not enlarged―I found that imposing financial sanctions was considered the best approach by the public because it would mean those irresponsible Members who only want to seek the limelight must bear on their own the consequences of committing acts of sabotage.

President, I think it is time to right the wrongs and plug the loopholes in RoP to enable our legislature to get back on track and look the way it should actually be. As I always say, the Legislative Council is no playground or zoo. Even if Members have different views, they can debate from different perspectives. The truth will only become clearer with more in-depth debate. Besides, it is absolutely possible for Members to, in a rational manner, clearly express their views in this Chamber. Yet, not amending RoP to plug the loopholes is tantamount to conniving those who intentionally act in disregard of RoP and would continue making trouble in the Council. To be honest, all the amendments are proposed for the good of Hong Kong and the Council while meeting the expectations of all quarters of society.

President, when I visited local neighbourhoods to collect the public's views, nine out of 10 people would approve of the current amendment exercise, but there was always one person who would query: Were the amendments to RoP meant to get rid of the voice of dissent? I would then take myself as an example and tell them that the pro-establishment Members would actually voice their opposition at Council meetings or on other occasions so that the Government could hear them, and that what they have seen in the past was merely the hijacking of the Council by Members belonging to the opposition camp. Members are supposed to make good use of the opportunities to speak in the Council and clearly express their views on various issues. Yet, Members LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4689 belonging to the opposition camp sought to derail meetings by means of filibustering. Should this also be regarded as voice of dissent then? People in the neighbourhood found my such remarks well-justified.

I further pointed out that in the past, pro-establishment Members did have relayed to the Government people's concerns and views at their meetings with government officials as well as in their speeches delivered at Council meetings. In my opinion, it is for sure that in this Council, every Member is bound to monitor the Government. Only ignorant people would say that the Council wanted to get rid of the voice of dissent. I trust that the Legislative Council has not at all restricted Members' right to reflect public opinion in the Council.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

Deputy President, some people asked whether the amendments proposed to prevent Members from filibustering this time is just to specify the duration of motion debates and shorten the speaking time limit of Members in debates. Another member of the public asked whether the restriction and shortening of speaking time was a regression. That day, Deputy President, I was just like attending a debate. I told them that a long speech did not necessarily mean its contents were precise. I always say that precision is important in this world, and this is the case with poverty alleviation and efforts made to provide assistance to the unemployed. Everything needs to be handled with precision. Precision in Members' speeches is conducive to better efficiency of the proceedings of the Council. As a matter of fact, it is pointless to talk too much since actions speak louder than words. After considering my words, he also agreed with me.

Deputy President, I would also like to point out that apart from expressing their views in the Chamber of this Council, Members can also take the initiative to invite officials to meet with them (or vice versa) and even ask the officials to make corresponding efforts to follow up on the issues of public concern. Members can fully express their views and speak up for the people through a variety of channels, and this will not change even though the speaking time is shortened. I still believe that we have the responsibility to help clarify to the public any fallacious arguments.

4690 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Deputy President, when I was collecting views in local neighbourhoods, many of the local residents asked me to express in this Chamber their wishes about the Legislative Council. They hope that the Legislative Council will really become a dignified and solemn legislature which conducts Council proceedings efficiently. They also hope that in future, Members belonging to different political parties or sectors alike will act in the interests of Hong Kong as a whole and in line with the collective wishes of members of the public. I think the current amendment exercise can effectively plug the loopholes in RoP.

Besides, Deputy President, some members of the public asked whether only the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region under "one country, two systems" would introduce amendments to RoP. I told the young man―I am not going to disclose his name here―I asked him to check it out first and he would then realize that the United Kingdom, the United States and other countries would actually keep abreast of the times as they have been amending and updating from time to time their rules of procedure. Some people may query: Will it not be easier for the legislature to "change the rules of the game" in this case? From this, you will see that whenever I visit local neighbourhoods to talk to members of the public, they will tell us their worries as well as some of the fallacies in local communities while expressing their views to me.

In my opinion, Deputy President, today's resolution to amend the rules in RoP means a great opportunity to put the Council back on track. Thus, I absolutely support it. Having put it place its own rules and regulations, the Legislative Council is supposed to be a law-making body of which the members deliberate on and deal with serious matters. It monitors and helps improve the Government's policy implementation. On the other hand, it can also be a force that motivates society to move forward.

Deputy President, a member of the public would like me to conclude my speech in this session today with these words: "The people of Hong Kong have had enough! The people of Hong Kong have had enough! The people of Hong Kong have had enough!" Well, important words need to be uttered three times in order to be heard. He hopes that the Council will be able to put things back on track, so that rational discussions may resume. Indeed, we should make overall arrangements as soon as possible in respect of the amendments to RoP.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4691

Deputy President, let me reiterate: I fully support the proposed resolution moved by Mr Paul TSE to amend the rules in RoP.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of this proposed resolution on amending the Rules of Procedure.

Throughout Members' speeches since yesterday and even in the community, it is often argued that the Legislative Council's Rules of Procedure is a gentleman's agreement, and the provisions therein are very lenient. This is due to the original intent of respecting Members and the belief that they will behave gently in the Chamber. For this reason, the Rules of Procedure leaves sufficient room and flexibility for Members to speak their mind. But all this is premised upon a very important assumption, the assumption that it is alright even if Members hold dissenting views on various social policies in the Chamber, even if they refuse to yield even just the slightest bit due to their narrow consideration for only the interests of voters in their constituencies or those of the industries, or even if they refuse to show any compassionate understanding or appreciation for officials, but all Members present here must support "one country, two systems", uphold the Basic Law, and bear allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR"). This is required of all Members in the Chamber and also an important foundation of the Rules of Procedure.

Honestly, society has undergone drastic changes in recent years. I think Members can remember how certain people with ulterior motives, as I will so describe them, openly displayed "" banners and chanted "Hong Kong independence" slogans in the Chamber after joining the legislature. Some of them have kept manipulating parliamentary proceedings to paralyse the legislature's operation and hinder the administration of the SAR Government. Some of them have even avowed that they would make use of their capacity as Members to form a "parliamentary battlefront" as they so call it to support the "street battlefront" outside dominated by "black-clad violence", and also the "international battlefront" outside calling for sanctions from the western world on officials of the country and HKSAR. I will describe all this as a dark force that seeks to challenge "one country, two systems" of HKSAR.

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Under these circumstances, it appears difficult to retain the lenient basis of the Rules of Procedure. This is also an important reason why it is necessary to amend the Rules of Procedure. Initially, the Rules of Procedure could already ensure order in the legislature, but very ironically, the lenient Rules of Procedure have turned into a "talisman" for Members with ulterior motives over the past period of time, and they have abused every inch of room in the Rules of Procedure. To put it in pleasant terms, they refuse to "yield even one inch". But to me, they have adopted a scorched-earth policy that seeks to turn the solemn Chamber into a wet market full of heated quarrels, a street with the prevalence of hooligan fights, and a stage for "performance arts".

The Deputy President or Members may still remember what has happened in the Chamber and Conference Room 1 over the past few years, and I for one will definitely remember what has happened after leaving the legislature one day. A few examples include certain Members charging at the rostrum; climbing up a wall behind the rostrum like a monkey in an attempt to get closer to the rostrum in Conference Room 1; standing on a Member's work bench and tearing apart a hard copy of the Rules of Procedure page by page; trying to break through the door; charging at the security line; feigning injury like "simulation" in football matches; locking a speaker playing slogans or music in a Member's drawer to interfere with Members' discussions; and even tying up chairs with metal chains. All this has taken place over and over again in this Chamber over the past few years.

If the inhabitants of a village can behave themselves and respect one another, they actually need not lock the door during sleep at night. But precisely because some of them have abused such trust and respect and done all sorts of bad things, the good days of leaving the door unlocked at nighttime have become something of the past. In our case, what can we do? We can only "lock the doors and windows" to protect the legislature and safeguard Hong Kong. The point is as simple as that.

Our observation over all this time shows that the conduct of certain Members in the legislature has been grossly disorderly. While it is true to say that they have not used any foul language in their speeches, some of their words as we have heard are very mean and harsh, and they are filled with personal attacks on officials or other Members in the legislature. It can be said that they sound even more unpleasant than foul language. I think the Deputy President LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4693 surely knows which Members I am talking about. Certainly, the hurling of objects, the snatching of officials' documents and chairmen's microphones, and also all sorts of philistine-like violent behaviour such as beating, smashing and snatching, have occurred over and over again in the legislature all this time. While the President and various chairmen may expel those Members with disorderly conduct from the meetings in accordance with the Rules of Procedure, such Members, as rightly asserted by Mr CHAN Kin-por, are merely barred from attending the remainder of a Council meeting or, for example, the relevant two-hour debate session of a Finance Committee meeting. But then two hours later, after a coffee break, they may participate in the meeting again. All this has no deterrence at all on Members manifesting disorderly conduct.

Just now, Dr CHENG Chung-tai asserted that the legislature was not merely a place for showing one's stance; rather, it should be a place to unveil the truth of an issue through debate. He is right. But his words that followed were baffling. He said that he was worried about a suspension of service due to disorderly conduct. I wonder if he was unable to make his point clear as he was afraid that he might exhibit disorderly conduct.

The amendment exercise this time around proposes a penalty mechanism called "Naming and Suspending". I will not repeat the details here, but I think such a mechanism is appropriate and necessary. Members can come to think about this. Even in football matches such as the World Cup or the English Premier League, players and coaches are most afraid of seeing a red card from the referee because this not only means that the player concerned will be forbidden to play for the remainder of the match. The coach is even worried that the player will be banned from playing for the next few matches. Such deterrence is very important in football matches, and this is precisely the reason why a player who has been booked with a yellow card will start to behave himself afterwards. I think the suspension mechanism to be introduced into the legislature this time can precisely fulfil this function.

Apart from a penalty mechanism, a series of amendment proposals have also been put forth in this amendment exercise. In my view, they are all aimed to address the recurrent realities of the legislature all this time. Such proposals include repealing "rise in his place and ask the question" and substituting it with the express wording of "rise in his place and read out the question set out on the Agenda". Some in the community may question why it is necessary to teach Members who are supposed to be adults in great detail to read out a question as 4694 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 printed on the Agenda, just like teaching a primary school student. The reason is that such puerile conduct has lasted for quite some time in the legislature.

Besides, an amendment proposal also seeks to prevent Members from jumping the queue by abusing motions under the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance ("the Ordinance") or the Basic Law to summons witnesses or form select committees. Figures show that in the past year or so, the Legislative Council has been unable to hold any debates on Members' motions with no legislative effect. The reason is that certain Members have kept proposing motions under the Basic Law or the Ordinance in order to jump the queue. As a result, the legislature has been unable to operate normally. Another point concerns the moving of adjournment motions without notice. If the President believes that any Member has abused the proceedings, he may decide not to propose the question on the motion or to put the question forthwith without debate, so as to prevent Members from hindering the conduct of business in the legislature by abusing such proceedings and giving speeches repeatedly.

Deputy President, speaking of the procedure for Third Reading, it is now specified that Members―actually, this has been the requirement all along, only that it has not been expressly or clearly set out―shall only debate the support or otherwise for the bill involved and shall not repeat any debate contents in Second Reading or the Committee stage, or the general merits and principles of the bill. In fact, these are the basics that all of us should know as Members. If Members can respect one another, it is simply not necessary to set out these requirements in the Rules of Procedure. But we cannot but do so because the past period of time has honestly shown that certain Members are unaware or have feigned ignorance of such basics. For this reason, we can only set them out clearly to avoid disputes in the future. In many cases, the lack of express provisions has enabled such Members to feign ignorance of the relevant requirements and engage in pointless arguments with the President. Their purpose is to put up delay and hinder the conduct of business in the legislature. This is the very reason why we have to set out the requirements clearly.

Deputy President, since the amendments contain a great deal of content, I am not able to speak on each amendment, and I can only bring up those parts which I think are important. Now, I wish to discuss the last amendment. To Members' understanding, during the election of the chairman and the vice-chairman of a committee, the incumbent chairman and vice-chairman shall continue to enjoy the power of a chairman and vice-chairman before the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4695 successful election of their successors. But somewhat inexplicably, such a clear understanding has nonetheless caused a mess in the legislature, with the result that it was impossible to elect the Chairman of the House Committee. For this reason, we can only set out the arrangement expressly and clearly, so as to avoid unnecessary disputes in the future.

Deputy President, even though the amendment exercise this time around may be unable to completely prevent any further abuse of the Rules of Procedure, I hope that it can plug those long-standing loopholes that are more obvious, so that the Legislative Council can debate policies smoothly, and Members can fulfil their constitutional role as people's representatives.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I support the proposed amendments to the Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("RoP"). Here, I wish to specially thank members of the Committee on Rules of Procedure for their deed of bravery. I also wish to thank the Secretariat staff for their efficiency and their immense input in this sophisticated amendment of RoP. But of course, it still hinges on this Council as to whether the motion can be passed.

Before this motion is laid on the table of this Council, thorough consultation has been carried out. The majority of the Members, or I may say almost 99% of the Members, supported the motion. Mr Tommy CHEUNG said yesterday that we had better not waste time on the amendment if it was a mission impossible. He used to be rather hopeless and disappointed at that time and did not place high hopes on the amendment. He explained his logics yesterday. But however impossible and difficult an endeavour may appear, we can conquer it with determination. And I am glad to hear that he also agreed with this point yesterday.

Many outrageous things happened in Hong Kong in the past few years. But many miracles happened in the past two years as well. With the powerful support and embrace from our great Motherland, Hong Kong can achieve things that we normally regard as impossible. The things that happened in the past two 4696 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 years have overruled the unspoken rules or standing practices that we regard as unsurpassable.

Actually, such thinking is too pedantic and fails to match up with the speed of our country. Our country progresses forward in a systematic manner on a target-meeting schedule. Given that the country has announced its National 14th Five-Year Plan, this is what we need to work on in this Council. We should boldly take actions after careful consideration. Today, we amend RoP, and then we can be free from obstacles and work on legislation and scrutinize government policies, and support the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") to take executive-led actions. Or let me put it this way. The Chief Executive can then work smoothly like gliding on the 5G or even 6G broadband without obstruction and achieve what she can think of.

So, I have an idea. Given that this Council has self-enhanced, including the ongoing improvement of the electoral system of the legislature, my hope or expectation is that the HKSAR Government should also think about how it can self-enhance its work attitude, how it can self-enhance its speed together with its 190 000-strong civil service, and how it can rid itself of its internal resistance. This is a big question. I believe the Chief Executive has been thinking beyond this question because she has been thinking for a long time. She should be thinking how to achieve this goal and arrive at outcome. The Radio Television Hong Kong ("RTHK") is one of the problems. Many colleagues in this Council agree that this is a problem which needs to be dealt with. For instance, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan put an oral question on this problem yesterday. She did the right thing. And now RTHK has a new head. These are what we need to do.

Let me come back to the amendments contained in this motion today. What is the essence of the motion? I think the essence is very good. It provides both honour and punishment. If Members have done a good job, the Government will certainly honour them. If Members have a satisfactory performance, they will be honoured in the future. When it comes to the punishment, the highlight of the punishment system is the proposed RoP 45A. It is one of the 18 amendments. The clause is perfect. Why? The President of the Legislative Council can name the Member whose conduct is disorderly. The Member is named not for any happy news or being the top scorer, but for his misconduct. The Deputy President will then move, without amendment or debate, a motion on the naming. And the President will then directly put the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4697 motion to vote. Of the 18 amendments, this is the greatest and brightest one which I regard highly. In the beginning some Members said the naming is unachievable. But today we manage to do so.

Besides, Deputy President, if a Member whose conduct is considered grossly disorderly during the same term is named by the President, and a motion on the naming is passed, the Member will have to face suspension from service. The period of suspension is one week for the first time of a Suspension Motion passed, two weeks for the second time and twice the time of the previous suspension for any subsequent Suspension Motion passed. Apart from suspension from service, the penalized Member is also barred from exercising his powers and functions of a Legislative Council Member as enshrined in the Basic Law. His remuneration will also be deducted. Apart from his own remuneration being deducted, it may also affect his assistants or the troublemakers who pretend to work for him, such as people like Joshua WONG.

This is a problem we need to think about. Given that Members are required to reach a certain standard, should Members' assistants not be subject to the same requirement? Should people with criminal records or grossly disorderly conduct be freely allowed to work here? This is a question we need to think about. Although the proposed RoP 45A to be added in this amendment exercise does not provide for the exact details, it does not put a close on this issue and we must continue to explore this subject.

At present, we still have a "rare species" in this Council, and that is Dr CHENG Chung-tai. I quite admire him. He has somewhat turned over a new leaf, despite some occasional lapses. But this does not matter. As he is given a chance to change over, he should do it properly. However, the real problem lies in the aimless ringing of quorum bells and asking for headcounts. In fact, I have repeatedly asked whether we should consider the conduct of Members who ask for a headcount every hour disorderly. This is a question we should think about. We do not oppose Article 75(1) of the Basic Law which provides for the quorum for the Legislative Council meeting to be not less than one half of all its Members. But I hold that if Members are allowed to ask for a headcount within very short periods of time, and the Member who asks for the headcount would then leave the Chamber as well, the conduct of this Member in this situation should be regarded as disorderly.

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The proposed RoP 45A will cover such conduct. If Members are sincere in asking for a headcount, they should then remain in the Chamber and do not walk away; otherwise, they should be regarded as insincerely discharging their duty as Legislative Council Member. If the Member who asks for a headcount leaves the Chamber, what kind of an attitude does he display? Is his conduct not grossly disorderly? Besides, if the meeting is not terminated two hours after a headcount, it shows that the Member who requested the headcount wants to deliberately create troubles and waste time. Such a Member has contravened the other 18 RoP amendments.

The President limits the speaking time of Members precisely because he does not want Members to filibuster. The essential principle is to refuse to let filibuster hinder the normal operation of this Council. A member who uses headcount requests as an excuse and then leaves the Chamber establishes a prima facie case of grossly disorderly conduct. Today, I especially raise this point here to facilitate future reference. The main theme and essential principle is that after the addition of RoP 45A is passed, we should continue to optimize RoP to comprehensively enhance the HKSAR legislature to continue to serve the people.

I truly believe that after this swift and decisive action to put the Legislative Council back on its track, we will enter a new era. When we say we want "50 years no change" for HKSAR, the "no change" we mean is not about doing things in a perfunctory manner just as before. We mean to change for the better and to improve the things that are not good. Apart from preserving the good things, we want to change for the better. This is the spirit of "50 years no change". It does not mean that we want to remain in the same spot. Who would remain in the same spot? We should take a look at the speed of our country. It says that it can reach the Mars next month. At this juncture, if we still remain in the same spot, are we not wasting our time and money? Will we not disappoint the people who have voted for us?

A decision was made last year to extend term of the Sixth Legislative Council, and I have said that the extension will last for no less than one year. In fact, we are tasked with an important mission. We may have to accomplish in one year what should be accomplished in four years. Now that we have dealt with the amendment to RoP … and the motion on the co-location arrangement under debate yesterday should also be properly dealt with, we should also properly work on and deal with the decision just made on 11 March by the National People's Congress on improving the electoral system of Hong Kong. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4699

In its National 14th Five-Year Plan, our country expressed high hopes for Hong Kong. It hopes that Hong Kong can take a leading role in innovation and technology. How should we tailor our policy to this end?

I am actually rather supportive of the Government. That said, I cannot stand the Government at times for its tortoise speed at work. For instance, 85 hectares of land at the Loop will be developed, but the work will only be completed in 2033. As I just said, the rocket of our country is going to land on the Mars next month. But in Hong Kong, our infrastructural projects take more than 10 years to complete. The construction of the 8.5 kilometre-long Route 11 will take 16 years to complete. How can we face up to our country? How can we face up to Hong Kong? We spend money on these projects, and the sum of money is not small and is three times more expensive than others. And the time needed is also three to four times longer. If the Government maintains such a work attitude, what should we do?

Today, this Council amends RoP. We want to improve our legislature and comprehensively assist the executive-led Government. The Chief Executive has to be bold and decisive. Next, I hope I can witness a timetable to be laid down on the legislation on Article 23 of the Basic Law. Article 7 of the HKSAR National Security Law says that HKSAR shall complete, as early as possible, legislation for safeguarding national security … it does not say "start to" complete but to complete the legislation "as early as possible".

Secretary John LEE told me last week that this Government could not complete the legislation on Article 23. I regret that an important meeting last week prevented me from meeting him and reprimanding him in person. He has taken oath to do his best. In just five weeks, our country completed the HKSAR National Security Law for us. But Secretary LEE dares to say that the legislation on Article 23 is very complicated. Article 23 was not drafted yesterday. It was drafted on 4 April 1990 and came into effect on 1 July 1997. A bill was proposed in 2003 but was ultimately shelved. No progress was made on the legislation in these 17 years. Our country has done two out of seven parts of the job for us, but he dares to say that the remaining five parts of the job are very complicated. How complicated are they?

So, Deputy President, here I am happy to say that I fully support us to improve ourselves. At the same time, I place high hope on the Government. The Government and its 190 000-strong civil service can no longer sit on their 4700 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 hands and wait for their pension. They should abandon the mindset of expecting every working day to be a comfortable one without incident. Nowadays, it is no longer common to get off duty at 5:00 pm. One often has to continue to work even at midnight. Completing the work within the specified time frame is the attitude we should adopt.

I so submit.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I rise to speak in support of the motion moved by Mr Paul TSE to amend the Rules of Procedure. As the Deputy President said in her earlier speech, the amendments this time around encompass five major parts involving substantial contents. Our debate on this motion has gone on for almost three hours, and many Members have already put forth their views on every detail therein. I will not repeat their specific viewpoints in my speech here, but I wish to tell Members about the rationale and spirit behind the need for amending the Rules of Procedure.

Actually, we in this legislature already performed a "major operation" on the text of the Rules of Procedure now in my hand during two amendment exercises, and my involvement in both exercises was quite extensive. So, I wish to take this opportunity to tell Members about the reason for our amendments to the Rules of Procedure.

When we raise the necessity to amend the Rules of Procedure, opposition Members or their supporters will definitely put forth one viewpoint only, the point that any amendments to the Rules of Procedure are precisely intended to reduce the room for Members' speeches in the legislature. This is the viewpoint they often talk about.

But I wish to tell Members that the amendment of the Rules of Procedure is not without a reason. Twenty-odd years have passed since the reunification. Why did people begin to see our amendment of the Rules of Procedure only in the last two years instead of the previous 10 or 20 years? The reason is that in the previous operation of the legislature, there were not as many abnormalities and breaches of the Rules of Procedure as we can see these days. So, why is it necessary to amend the Rules of Procedure? The precise reason is that Members championing "mutual destruction" have flouted the Rules of Procedure and the long-standing consensus on the operation of the legislature. This is the very LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4701 reason why we raise the need for amendment. The precise reason is that they have ruined the operation of the legislature; if not, it simply would not have been necessary for us to amend so much of its content for so many times. The several amendment exercises concerning the Rules of Procedure are mainly intended to prevent the persistent filibustering attempt of certain Members to obstruct the normal operation of the legislature. The damage they have inflicted is the precise reason for our rectification action. If we do not do anything to rectify the damage they have done, we in the legislature must be held responsible. As in the case of many laws, it may not be necessary to enact any such laws, actually. If everybody abides by the law and refrains from upsetting law and order in society, it will not be necessary to enact so many laws to restrict people's conduct. This is my reply to their question about why we have to amend the Rules of Procedure and a very important underlying reason.

Second, I must explain two concepts clearly. The purpose of amending the Rules of Procedure is, first, to rectify the undesirable trend, and second, to keep it abreast of the times. Over the years, the operation of our legislature has been based on self-discipline on the part of Members. This is the case of the legislature in not only Hong Kong but also overseas countries. The legislature in some places may be composed of a few dozen members like ours, and the legislature in some other places may even consist of hundreds of Members. If members only want to gain the limelight and abuse the proceedings, it will be utterly impossible for the legislature to operate. So, a set of rules must be formulated to regulate members' conduct. This set of rules, to a large extent, is a gentleman's agreement among all members. If any members yell in their seats or even dash out of their seats, hurl objects and pour stinking liquid from time to time in defiance of this gentleman's agreement and the rules, with the result that it is impossible to conduct meetings, then how can the legislature operate, may I ask?

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

And, more importantly, everybody can see that the deeds of many Members or the opposition camp have plunged the legislature into complete chaos, and we are utterly unable to conduct meetings or heed Members' speeches and officials' replies. So, if the situation is like this every time, and if such Members can get away every time without having to face any consequences or 4702 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 pay a price except for their mere expulsion from the Chamber that day, I believe this is very unfair to other Members who attend meetings diligently. Certain opposition Members already had such intentions when they joined the legislature. Their intention is to create a mess in the legislature and bring it to a standstill as a means to advance their political aspirations. If they are captured by the camera how they have been taken away from the Chamber, they will upload the relevant photographs or video clips onto their social media accounts afterwards in order to get "likes" from supporters. This is precisely their main purpose. They have never thought of explaining their convictions to others in the legislature through reasoning or debate. Well, they may be able to gain some political capital, but the legislature has to pay the greatest price of suspending its operation.

So, speaking of such Members, if we do not impose any penalties on them, the cases I talked about just now may persist. Despite the resignation en masse of certain opposition Members today, the operation of the whole legislature may still be hindered solely by anyone like them who joins the legislature in the future. So, we also introduce a suspension mechanism as a consequence during our amendment of the Rules of Procedure this time around. Of course, salary deduction is also another move.

I also wish to discuss my personal views at this point of my speech. Just now, I heard Mr YIU Si-wing say that he actually agreed to a suspension mechanism only, but it should not be implemented on a cumulative basis. On this issue, I also once said in public that I only agreed to a suspension mechanism and had personal reservations about the imposition of fines because I thought that suspending a Member from meeting was already a severe punishment. But after consultation and discussions among pro-establishment Members, we invariably think that a dual-pronged approach should be adopted, and I have also submitted myself to the consensus of pro-establishment Members. This is why we propose to adopt a dual-pronged approach today that consists of a suspension mechanism on a cumulative basis and the imposition of fines.

What does this show? Some may argue that without opposition Members in the legislature in the days ahead, the pro-establishment camp will endorse anything like a rubber stamp. I must say the case is not like this. This example shows that Mr YIU Si-wing has his own views, and so have I, only that in the end, when we have to make a decision, we must compromise in order to reach a consensus; or else the legislature cannot possibly function. In contrast, opposition Members only cling to their stance forever, thinking that they are right LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4703 forever and they are the victors forever. They never bother to discuss with us in the opposite side if we hold divergent views, and they will only brush away our things or hinder us in holding meetings or casting our votes. This is what they will do. But we are different from them, right? Many Members have argued that if we do not plug the loopholes in the Rules of Procedure or the legislature, we in the legislature should actually be held responsible and cannot possibly avoid the blame. So, I will say that the amendment of the Rules of Procedure today is a difficult decision, and it is a decision that we have reached on the basis of thorough discussions and a consensus.

Of course, many Members talked about the farcical show involving the election of the House Committee ("HC") Chairman two years ago. Since a Member abused his power as the presiding Member, the election of the HC Chairman and Vice-chairman was obstructed. Actually, he had no power whatsoever to deal with any points of order, but he procrastinated by allowing numerous points of order and obstructed our election of the HC Chairman and Vice-chairman. So, such a bitter lesson from the failure to return the HC Chairman despite the passage of half a year or even a longer time has aroused our concern about the possibility of similar incidents in the future if we do not plug the loopholes that may give rise to a similar scenario in the chairman election of other Panels. If we do not do so, then I must say we have failed in our duties and responsibilities as Members. This is what I meant by rectifying the undesirable trend earlier on.

The second point about the concept of progressing abreast of the times is relatively simple. Any legislature must introduce corresponding changes on the basis of social development and actual circumstances. Obviously, with the decision of the National People's Congress, the composition of the legislature will increase from 70 to 90 Members in the future, and it naturally follows that the duration of meetings will likewise increase. If Council meetings are to be conducted efficiently, the speaking time of a Member in certain proceedings may have to be reduced. Why? The reason is to allow more Members to speak. On this point, it is erroneous to simplistically equate restricting Members' speeches with disallowing Members from speaking. So, I must say our understanding of fairness is not quite the same as the perception of the opposition camp, in the sense that in their view, fairness means that the right to speak is exclusive to themselves only. To us, fairness should rather mean providing each Member with the time, room and opportunity for speaking.

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In addition, the amendment of the Rules of Procedure this time around also seeks to bring in an arrangement to keep the legislature abreast of the times. The arrangement is that having regard to the prevailing COVID-19 epidemic, Members are allowed to conduct meetings with the use of videoconferencing software, and there is an express provision stipulating that the contents of speeches in meetings conducted with videoconferencing tools are to be protected under the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance as a means to accord greater protection to meetings and Members' speeches. Actually, such arrangements are not exclusive to Hong Kong. Other countries may have put in place similar arrangements more expeditiously and earlier than we do.

President, I wish to point out that the amendment of the Rules of Procedure this time around is totally legitimate and justifiable, and the amendments are targeted at the existing loopholes in the Rules of Procedure and actual needs. Therefore, I speak in support of the motion moved by Mr Paul TSE. I so submit.

MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): President, I will just speak in brief. Certainly, I will support the proposed resolution put forward by Mr Paul TSE today concerning the amendments to the Rules of Procedures ("RoP").

As Mr CHAN Hak-kan just mentioned, RoP were not amended in the past two to three decades, so why then were RoP amended twice during these two years suddenly? Drawn up in the past, RoP were meant to be gentleman rules, i.e. the rules for people who are abiding by rules and behave gentlemanly. But during the past few years, what we call gentlemen were nowhere to be seen in this Council. Rogues were all that we had here. It is thus natural that amendments are made to RoP now, and there has been a consensus among us.

Just now, other Honourable colleagues already went into a lot of details, so I am not going to discuss the amendments further. Also, it is not necessary for me to talk about what happened in the past as it is all too clear to us. I just wish to discuss whether the amended RoP will be useful to us, and whether they can really help to ensure that the discussions in this Council and the Government's policy implementation are carried out smoothly.

Obviously, when we proposed the amendments to RoP, the National People's Congress ("NPC") has not yet made the decision on improving our LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4705 electoral system, so the relevant amendments focus one hundred per cent on the situation once confronting us before, i.e. what the opposition camp and the pan-democrats did. But then, if next Monday or Tuesday, NPC passes the decision on improving the electoral system which concerns the election for the next term of the Legislative Council, all those who will stand for election or participate in politics in the future must be people who love our country and Hong Kong. They will never stir up any trouble upon entry into the Council for sure, right? The President will no longer need to make the decision about expelling Members from the Chamber so often. Therefore, I think these amendments to RoP are definitely well-intentioned, but in the future, will we really need to use these amended rules? I believe, many of the rules amended by us now may not be put to use. So, Members should not worry about the presence of a mechanism for financial penalty or suspension from the service of the Council. I believe that from the next term of the Legislative Council, none of these situations will arise, and the President can save the effort of making decisions in respect of these situations.

By coincidence, this time when we amend RoP to shorten the speaking time limits of certain sessions, we happen to have such a need, especially when this Council will see an increase in the number of Members from 70 at present to 90. Let us just do some calculations. If the speaking time limit for each Member is 7 minutes or 15 minutes, this will definitely lengthen the meeting time significantly, with the deliberation time for each agenda item possibly increased by one third or even two fifths. Just take today's discussion about the amendments to RoP as an example. This Council only consists of some 40 Members, but the discussion has already continued for three to four hours. If RoP are not amended, President, you may have to spend double the time sitting in this Chamber to chair meetings held for the scrutiny of bills when there are 90 Members in this Council. Therefore, by sheer fluke, the amendments proposed on this occasion will be helpful to the policy discussion process in the future, or, to put in another way, greatly enhance the efficiency of the meetings.

Of course, regarding filibuster, election of committee chairmen and things … I believe situations like the election of the Chairman of the House Committee last year will never happen again, because now—as I just said—all those who join the Legislative Council will be patriots, regardless of their political affiliations, be it the pan-democratic camp or whatever. Whoever joins the Legislative Council will definitely comply with the rules previously established. No one will run amok nor dare to do so. I believe that the 4706 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 proposal for improving the election system, coupled with the amended RoP, will certainly enhance the speed and efficiency of policy discussions in Hong Kong in the future, and enable smoother administration in Hong Kong.

Thank you, President. I so submit.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I remember that when watching news programmes on television in the past, we would laugh at Taiwan as long as we saw how people flung their shoes out or fell to the floor during heated fights in its legislature, saying that its parliamentary culture was undesirable. At that time, the Hong Kong legislature was still a place with decent demeanour, meaning a civilized place where Members truly engaged in policy deliberation and concrete things. But since I joined the legislature―it is the ninth year into my membership―I have witnessed how Hong Kong's Legislative Council has become increasingly like the Taiwan legislature with the proliferation of violence. I have seen the transformation of pan-democratic Members into opposition Members and further into advocates of "mutual destruction". They have persistently escalated their violent conduct for the mere sake of putting up a show and grabbing the limelight. So, today, I rise to speak in support of this proposed resolution on amending the Rules of Procedure as it is high time that Hong Kong set things straight.

President, we all know that the Rules of Procedure of the Legislative Council is meant as a gentleman's agreement all along rather than a safeguard against undesirable elements. But as I said just now, we have seen the movement of our parliamentary culture in the direction of an undesirable parliamentary culture. In the course of my service on the streets, many people have come to ask me furiously: "How should I call the legislature? The Legislative Council? Or the rubbish Council?" Actually, I am indeed saddened to hear this. In retrospect, I will say my original intention of being a Member was to do concrete things for Hong Kong. My sole intention of joining the legislature was to promote the development of innovation, technology and environmentalism, and to speak up for women and the people. But things have turned out to be unexpected over the past few years, as I have come to realize that Members who are supposed to deliberate, debate and take forward policies will also have to take part in fights. There has been more than one occasion where Members have to call the Police or be hospitalized for an examination of their injuries. It has never occurred to me that I will have to face all this as a Member of the Legislative Council.

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As I have seen, the hurling of objects in the legislature ranging from bananas some time ago to drinking glasses and stinking substances lately, the snatching of documents from officials, the hysterical filibustering attempt and the hysterical requests for a headcount on the part of Members championing "mutual destruction" in a bid to bring forth the adjournment of the Council, their repetitive speeches, their raising of questions which I think are utterly hysterical, uninformed and ridiculous at Panel and committee meetings, and also their incessant requests for proposing adjournment motions and motions without notice, are for the mere sake of "slowing down the rotation of Earth", opposing anything associated with China and raising opposition. We have witnessed how certain Members advocating "mutual destruction" have abused their power, one notable example being Dennis KWOK. He insisted on acting as the presiding member for seven months, but he was unable to return the House Committee Chairman. As a result, the Legislative Council was brought to a standstill for seven months and was unable to scrutinize any bills. As we have seen, violence has turned increasingly rampant in the legislature, and every time when Members championing "mutual destruction" rise to speak, they will hurl insults at public officers and pro-establishment Members. Apart from verbal violence, they have likewise resorted to physical violence, including charging at the rostrum and creating chaos persistently, with the intention of hindering the conduct of meetings. Sometimes, when I hear their speeches and witness their physical violence here in the Legislative Council, I honestly have the feeling that I am wasting my life. But the most important of all is that the time of Hong Kong has been wasted. Initially, Hong Kong was a place with high efficiency, and Hong Kong people have always been praised for their efficiency and vibrancy. But as we have seen, Hong Kong has become less and less efficient over the past few years, and we have been gradually overtaken by our neighbouring cities in every respect. As I have noticed, the development of innovation and technology, an area which I eagerly wish to promote in Hong Kong, has been slow, and Shenzhen has overtaken Hong Kong with its incessant development in this respect.

President, why would Hong Kong degenerate into such a deplorable state? The reason is that a number of Members have manipulated our loopholes, including certain requirements in the Rules of Procedure that were originally meant for the gentleman rather than as a safeguard against undesirable elements. By exhausting the room of the Rules of Procedure, they have done things that are detrimental to Hong Kong. So, today, I feel that we as Legislative Council Members, especially Members of the current-term Legislative Council, are 4708 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 duty-bound to amend the Rules of Procedure as a means to address those problems that have come to our attention. Some have argued that as future Legislative Council elections will be based on the principle of "patriots administering Hong Kong", it is not necessary to amend the Rules of Procedure. I for one, however, do not agree to this assertion. As we have noticed certain problems, we are precisely duty-bound to undertake an amendment exercise properly within the current term of the Legislative Council.

I am also a member of the Committee on Rules of Procedure. The amendment of the Rules of Procedure this time around is actually very comprehensive, and it seeks to address certain acts I mentioned just now. Speaking of certain Members' grossly disorderly conduct in the Legislative Council as we could see in the past, the President could only issue warnings one after another and expel the relevant Members from the Chamber, without any power to do anything further afterwards. At the next meeting, those Members might hurl any objects again. The threshold for penalizing such Members was very high, in the sense that we could only propose a censure motion to see if they could be disqualified from office. But in the process, the Members concerned were not subject to any other penalties. The amendments to the Rules of Procedure this time around include such penalties as the suspension of service on a cumulative basis and the imposition of fines, in the hope of enhancing deterrence and preventing any further persistent attempt of Members to obstruct the legislature's operation through grossly disorderly conduct that is purely intended for grabbing the limelight. In the case of the procedures for electing committee chairmen, we have likewise introduced amendment. If a committee is unable to return a chairman for a new session, the chairman for the previous session may continue to handle the business of the committee concerned. Actually, all the amendments are necessary and important, and I very much hope that after the amendments are passed today, the Hong Kong Legislative Council can really get back on track and do concrete things for people's livelihood.

In fact, the people of Hong Kong invariably hope that the Hong Kong Legislative Council can really do something concrete to resolve the various problems of Hong Kong. Many problems plaguing Hong Kong are in urgent need of a solution. In the past, it was honestly difficult for us to get things done because of the deliberate delay to our work. President, an apt example is the motion on implementing co-location arrangement for Huanggang Port that we endorsed yesterday. Members can imagine that if Members advocating "mutual destruction" had still remained in the legislature, they would have resorted to every possible means permitted under the Rules of Procedure, such as putting LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4709 forth persistent requests for a headcount and moving adjournment motions, followed by charging at the rostrum. It was highly likely that we would have been besieged by them again, and they would have persisted in inciting violence. I believe all this would have made it difficult for us to pass the motion on implementing co-location arrangement for Huanggang Port at the Council meeting yesterday. Should this happen, I would wonder how much longer this simple and necessary task would be delayed before its accomplishment.

In the days ahead, Hong Kong still has to resolve its housing, healthcare and education problems. We hope to seize the opportunities presented by the country's "internal and external circulation" economic strategy, the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, and also the 14th Five-Year Plan. We have a lot work to do.

President, I support this amendment exercise, and I hope for the expeditious passage of the amendments, so as to enable the legislature to get back on track and bring Hong Kong out of chaos into stability. I so submit.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): I speak in support of the proposed resolution moved by Mr Paul TSE, Chairman of the Committee on Rules of Procedure. Certainly, I have also to thank the Secretariat for having collected information from different parliaments around the world for our reference, as well as having provided long-term consultation and done massive work in the past few years in relation to the amendments.

President, simply put, great turmoil must be followed by great governance, as mentioned in a conversation between Emperor Taizong and WEI Zheng in the early Tang Dynasty. Emperor Taizong asked if it would be difficult to bring about change in public mores in a short period of time if the country had just been through a war, and WEI Zheng said no, explaining that it was the best time for reform because people were still in pain from the great turmoil and worried about the recurrence of "black-clad violence", given that those who had just endured starvation would not be picky about what to eat or drink. It struck me deeply that Hong Kong as a whole, and the Legislative Council alike, suffered from the great turmoil of 2019. This reform will definitely come about.

Earlier on, I heard many colleagues say that our Rules of Procedure ("RoP") was not supposed to be amended casually, frequently or unnecessarily. They have come up with many reasons to explain why RoP should be amended. 4710 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

However, I hold that amending RoP is a matter easily understood. The simplest example is that when your knee is tapped, it will naturally jerk. This is called a conditioned reflex [sic]1. In fact, we see that the "black-clad violence", or for that matter "mutual destruction" in this Council, has been a real blow to us. Should we react to this blow? We should definitely show our reaction. A lack of reaction even in such a situation would simply reveal that we are slow off the mark. President, since this is a reflex action, there is no need at all to explain too much about it. But, of course, we want the public to understand the rationale and the need for the amendments.

President, to begin with, I would like to say that the current amendment to RoP consists of five items, and in fact most of them focus on a punitive regime with "yellow cards" and "red cards", so the objective is very clear. Since the penalties were not severe in the past, it is now necessary to amend RoP by including a punitive regime with "yellow cards" and "red cards". Some people have asked whether the statement that the penalties were not severe is a personal view. If the conclusion on whether they were severe or not is based on personal judgment, then what is meant by being "severe" or "not severe"? In fact, there was an objective criterion, namely whether or not the original penalties were deterrent. As many colleagues have said, the evolvement from filibustering and banana-hurling by a small group of Members to the power-grabbing behaviour of the whole "mutual destruction camp", as well as the increasing trend of breaches in terms of the number of Members involved, frequency and gravity, indicated that the penalties were not severe by the objective criterion.

President, over the past 10 years, indeed too many things have happened in this Council. At first, the opposition camp only pressed the "No" button. Whether the Budget or the Policy Address was involved, and whether or not there was a cash handout, they cast a negative vote. Later on, they went further to filibuster, throw a banana, hurl a glass, climb up, lie down, yell in the Chamber, seek expulsion, stop security guards from enforcing the President's ruling, sweep things off the benches, pop a rape alarm into a locker and lock it, bring their own amplifiers into the Chamber, and storm and even occupy the President Podium. These were subsequently followed by throwing smelly water and dropping stink bombs. At a later stage, they even showed their cloven foot, namely paralysing the Council. The House Committee failed to elect its chairman in seven months, because the ultimate aim was to bring the administration to a standstill.

1 The correct term is "knee-jerk reaction". LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4711

President, if the numerous matters just mentioned are viewed separately, you will only feel that they are getting more and more radical. It seems that this bunch of people are increasingly radical in their behaviour in order to suck up votes, attract camera attention and steal the limelight, but if we connect the dots between everything they have done and what has happened in this Council over the past 10 years, this is actually an episode of "Stories from Afar". What kind of "country" is this "far away country"? It is the country that wants to bring Hong Kong down, the country that wants to bring this Council down, and …

In fact, we all notice that the Legislative Council is actually Hong Kong writ large. The level of chaos in this Council is one of the factors that shape the international perception of the image of Hong Kong. So, the way this bunch of people are acting reveals the truth that this episode of "Stories from Afar" is about bringing Hong Kong down and then pursuing their path of usurpation. Actually, this is the strategy of cooking a frog in slowly boiling water. What does it mean? At first, they were slightly radical. When you got used to them, they turned more radical. When you got used to them again, they turned even more radical, and afterwards they would tell you straight out: "I want to seize power by means of '35+'. I want 'mutual destruction'." This path of usurpation is evident if we piece the events together. Of course, today we see that they want to bring Hong Kong down, but while Hong Kong has not yet collapsed, they have already found their "home country".

President, another scenario is that, at bottom … The reason has already been explained―that is, we have to piece the events together. We have now come to an era of reform. The Central Authorities have taken the strong step of improving the electoral system, which actually seeks to bring about great governance in the wake of great turmoil. Besides, the 2.38 million signatures also reflect precisely the lingering public reaction to the "black-clad violence" of the year before last, as well as to the serious conflicts occurring in this Council over the past few years, namely that they do not want any more chaos, nor do they want the recurrence of "black-clad violence" or "mutual destruction" in this Council. The message is loud and clear.

Admittedly, many colleagues have also mentioned that, in truth, RoP can guard against "superior men", but not "mean men". In fact, we used to mention it often in this Council, but I think it is still an understatement. Strictly speaking, RoP not only cannot protect against "mean men", but also cannot protect against "domineering men". Why do I say this? Having conducted 4712 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 meetings with members of the Committee on Rules of Procedure ("CRoP"), Mr Paul TSE should know what I mean. It is not the first time that this punitive regime of "red cards" and "yellow cards" has been proposed. A few years have already passed since it was proposed but why has it never been tabled in this Council, still pending a lot of consultation work? It is because Members of the "mutual destruction camp" were decidedly opposed to the relevant amendments in CRoP. Not only did they stand against it on the surface, but their faces also conveyed a message―although the meeting was closed, and hence not found on the Legislative Council's website, I noticed it because I also took part in the meeting. I must say that although they have a legal background, they have given us the impression that they were trying to get the "official licence" to cause trouble. Since there were no express provisions in RoP prohibiting disruption, it was unfair and unjust not to allow them to cause trouble, and it was fair and just only if they were allowed to do so. This was their explanation. They often put on a stern face at meetings, as if they had come across the killer of their father. This was the face they put on at meetings, which was really unpalatable. However, with the concerted efforts of Members, we have finally come through this period of time.

Certainly, as Members have said many times, we do not want to repeat the same mistake Taiwan made, because the memory is still vivid to everyone. Once when I was in secondary school, I saw on television a member of Taiwan's Legislative Yuan pressing the sole of his shoe onto another member's face. We all felt that Taiwan was such a mess, like the countryside. Little did we know that Hong Kong would actually follow in Taiwan's footsteps. I hope that this problem can be resolved upon realization of this great governance. If we do not actively amend RoP to improve this problem, we will be questioned whether we have taken seriously the painful lessons we learned from experience. If we remain apathetic, or even do nothing, will we be helping the perpetrators?

President, I have just mentioned that timing is essential. There is urgency in time for great governance to replace great turmoil, and there should also be legitimacy for us to amend RoP. Another point I would like to raise is about the security colleagues of this Council. According to the data obtained by my colleagues, there were 16 cases of injuries suffered by security colleagues while handling conflicts or maintaining order in the Council between 2017 and 2020. Nobody wants to see this situation, but the thing is, when fighting for camera attention, Members of the "mutual destruction camp" will become irrational and not care about the safety of frontline workers. They not only run riot, but even LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4713 climb up and down. In short, when a Member of the "mutual destruction camp" goes into a sudden free fall, the people below have to catch him. If they do not succeed in catching him, hence resulting in his injury, he will take a retaliatory move to accuse them, turning himself from a perpetrator into a complainant, so it is really a rough ride for the security colleagues of this Council.

Moreover, we have learned from our frequent chats with security colleagues that they are also faced with difficulties: first, even if injured, they cannot report to the Police themselves, and the matter has to be dealt with by the Legislative Council Commission. In addition, regarding work allocation, as manpower is stretched thin, if a colleague is injured, he or she has to be replaced by other serving colleagues, hence bringing additional work stress on them. Therefore, despite 16 cases of injury having been reported, I believe there may be more unreported because, with strong teamwork, they do not want to affect the work of other colleagues. We are worried that the problem will continue to worsen. That is why we consider it necessary to increase the penalties to prevent future disruption. The suspension rule stipulates that the duration of the suspension from service will double from one week to two weeks, four weeks and so on. Certainly we consider this arrangement relatively reasonable.

President, there is one more thing that I think needs to be addressed, and that is the abuse of points of order. Although the current amendment emphasizes that disorderly conduct will result in expulsion from the Chamber, is the abuse of a point of order considered to be disorderly conduct? Of course, it is up to the President to decide, but past experience suggests that many Members of the "mutual destruction camp" have abused the points of order. That is to say, their question actually had nothing to do with the procedure, but they raised it as a point of order. In fact, in the past, we have stressed that there should be a procedural framework whereby the Member who wishes to raise a point of order has to first indicate the rule of procedure referred to before providing the content. However, a common scenario in the past was that Members of the "mutual destruction camp" first gave a bunch of irrelevant reasons to stall for time, but they were unable to say which rule of procedure they were referring to. In fact, in this regard, we have to rely on the President's insightful judgment to prevent the abuse of points of order from happening again.

Besides, there is an amendment concerning the arrangement of speaking time, which is in fact very simple. As many Members have mentioned earlier, since the number of seats will be increased from 70 to 90 in future in order to 4714 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 improve the electoral system, such increase in the number of participants will result in less time being allocated. If the Council still meets only on Wednesdays and Thursdays, the time is limited. I certainly consider this amendment reasonable because every society is faced with the problem of limited resources, or in other words, the pie is only so big. If Members wanted to have a long intimate talk and discussion for several days, no one would stop them, but I think the Council needs to fulfil social expectations on the use of time, restrictions and limited resources. The way to optimize the use of limited resources is to achieve the goal of fair participation through better allocation of time.

President, it has been hard to get to this point. I hope that the current amendment will be a good start and model for the smooth operation of the Council in future, and that Members will continue to work together to more effectively scrutinize the Government's bills and work, so as to contribute to the improvement of people's livelihood and economic development.

Thank you, President.

MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): Actually, President, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Chairman of the Liberal Party, has already expressed on behalf of us our support for the current amendments to the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"). I did not intend to speak at first, but having listened to a number of Honourable colleagues who mentioned the events that happened in the past, in particular in the previous year, a lot of my memories have been brought back, so I would also like to share with Members my personal feelings.

First and foremost, concerning today's proposed resolution, I am very grateful to Mr Paul TSE, Chairman of the Committee on Rules of Procedure ("CRoP"), and other CRoP members since the sweeping amendment exercise is way more than what the members of the public have seen in the debate today or what was discussed at previous CRoP meetings. They have succeeded in introducing today's proposed resolution all because they have spent a great deal of time examining RoP rule by rule to identify as well as plug the loopholes. Therefore, I have to thank them for having devoted so much time to accomplishing the task.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4715

Second, why is it necessary for Hong Kong to enact legislation? Why is it necessary for places all over the world to enact different laws? Just as I often mention: why do people have to live in groups? Why does every single person not live alone? It is because people can protect each other and work for each other's well-being when they come together. As the number of people within a group grows larger, however, there must be rules for everyone to follow. Otherwise society will be in chaos when everyone considers only his own interests or looks at things only from his own perspective. Therefore, each place will enact its own laws suitable for the local society, and the Legislative Council is responsible for making laws for Hong Kong. Based on the same principle, CRoP has taken a long, hard look at RoP in an attempt to plug the loopholes arisen in the past.

Some member of the public questioned: Are we tightening the restrictions ourselves? Actually, the current amendment exercise intends not to tighten the restrictions but to make RoP better. As to how the rules are made better, numerous Members have already given elaborations and examples―just like the case in which my seat here was splashed with water containing faecal matter, right? Another example is that when I had a meal in the past―Members also know that―I dined in the restaurant downstairs but was still unable to finish up my meal after going back and forth four times.

There were people who wanted to, particularly over the past year, take advantage of all the loopholes―those who used to sit there on my right-hand side are all gone now―and seemed to have lost their minds in doing and supporting a lot of things which they should not have done or supported. When they were supposed to come forward to speak up―for the incident in which a young woman suffered brutal eye injury, a whole group of people just stood on my right-hand side, each covering one of their eyes with one hand. We all know whether the woman really got her eye injured in a way that they believed to be the case, but if so, she would have come forward to confirm it at an early stage. But still, they insisted what they believed was true.

In fact, their anti-intellectual behaviours were evident―exploiting the Council's loopholes to cause incessant delays that only wasted our time. Not only have they obstructed the Council's normal operation, but they have also held back Hong Kong, making it impossible for the city to move ahead. How much 4716 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 time was wasted by them in the election of the Chairman of the House Committee ("HC")? Well, Hong Kong has been forced to come to a standstill for nearly half a year, "thanks" to them! In short, it is imperative that RoP be amended in order to plug the loopholes, and I believe that many people in Hong Kong do support the amendment exercise.

Lastly, I would like to point out that everything has its upside and downside. There is no need to mention the downside since other Members have already jumped all over them. As for the upside, President, I have learnt one thing during the course. I used to think: it is quite good to be the President of the Legislative Council, who does not have to sit on other committees, and all he has to do is simply to take the seat up there, say a few words and ask a certain Member what he has said, quite a relaxed job. However, over the past year or so, I came to realize that the workload of the President is actually rather heavy.

For example, President Andrew LEUNG has, on our behalf, dealt with their bizarre motions several times, especially during the six-month-long period when the HC Chairman was not elected yet and Ms Starry LEE could not take the chair as President's Deputy to chair Council meetings. And so, as I have seen on Wednesdays and Thursdays then, the President sat there in the Chamber from 9 am in the morning till night. The following day, he repeated the same routine, listening attentively to those people's frivolous speeches. He had to correct them when they said something wrong and could not let his mind wander for even a second. It is absolutely no easy task to concentrate for such a long time. Hence, I am very grateful to President Andrew LEUNG for his dedication.

Thank you.

MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I am very grateful to Mr Paul TSE for leading the Committee on Rules of Procedure ("CRoP") of the Legislative Council to complete its new task and moving the proposed resolution to amend the Rules of Procedure ("RoP") today. Besides, I would like to extend my gratitude to the President, Mr Andrew LEUNG, the Deputy President, Ms Starry LEE, and the Security Office of the Legislative Council Secretariat for they did have to cope with rather difficult tasks over the past few years.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4717

Of course, I am very supportive of the current amendments to RoP. Let me see―I have been working in the Legislative Council for 16 to 17 years and have witnessed the changing of the ethos of this Council―a solemn Chamber has turned into to a place that is worse than a street market. The Legislative Council, a place of prestige and dignity, is now being referred to as the "Rubbish Council" by the public. This really breaks my heart.

I heard many Members express their strong support for the current amendment exercise which I definitely support. However, we must be on our guard. The most important thing is to enforce the rules once they are made. Or else, it means nothing, just like enacting legislation without enforcement. Therefore, I hope that Members will, in future, stand up to firmly resist and fight with all their might against any malignant trends in the Council.

On the other hand, I hope that members of the public will denounce nefarious acts in this Council. As for the local media, I hope that they will not put the rowdy acts of certain Members on a pedestal, glorify them with high-sounding words, or even sing praise to them. And yet, they should not just remain silent and turn a blind eye either. This will only encourage their such acts.

I hope that, upon shaking off the "black-clad violence" and COVID-19, the Legislative Council and local society as a whole will turn the page to usher in a new era.

Here, I would like to thank Mr Paul TSE once again for leading CRoP in accomplishing such a demanding task. Meanwhile, I would also like to thank the President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If not, I now call upon Mr Paul TSE to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

4718 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I have to thank over half of the Members here who have spoken on this motion, and a majority of them are in support of the proposed amendments. I also thank them for showing appreciation to my work, but the praise should go to the colleagues in the Secretariat, whether the clerk or the legal adviser of the committee, who have truly worked very hard.

President, in order to be succinct, I will only make a very brief response, highlighting the arguments which have not been explored, or making slight clarification and rectification of certain concepts for the record. Firstly, quite a number of Members cited the concept of keeping abreast of the times or move with the times, with which I absolutely agree. However, Mr KWOK Wai-keung just mentioned "膝跳反射" (knee-jerk reaction) when explaining why we need to make amendment. I believe Members also know that the English expression of that term is "knee-jerk reaction", but this may not be appropriate in explaining or describing this amendment exercise. Because this amendment exercise should be similar to the previous amendment exercises, in which we have to be very cautious. This certainly is not a kind of reflex action like knee jerk reaction, but an amendment exercise after many years of consideration with the support of a lot of analyses and studies.

According to the criticism from some colleagues or the opinions from the public, there is a query on why it is still necessary to amend the rules when the electoral system of the Legislative Council will be amended soon. As I mentioned in my speech earlier, this is the concept of never too late to mend the fold after a sheep is lost. In the contemporary language, this is similar to the situation when a kind of virus exists in the community, but in the absence of any antibody or vaccine during some time, we have to live in agony for a long period of time. We hope that the situation can be handled with the presence of antibodies and vaccines, and this amendment exercise is precisely one of the mechanisms to raise the level of the antibodies.

Some Members, including Dr CHENG Chung-tai, also query whether this amendment exercise is superfluous. First of all, I want to point out that this amendment exercise is not targeted at particular groups, political parties or Members, but the concept of "everyone may look to others for help" is adopted. If you know how to play mah-jong, you will understand better. It is my wish that after the rules are set, Members can be more rule-abiding. In fact, a number of Members from the pro-establishment camp were asked to leave the Chamber in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4719 the past. If I recall correctly, even Mr CHAN Kin-por, who is quite a gentleman, was asked by Mr Alan LEONG, a former Member, to leave the Chamber, not to mention Dr Junius HO. Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr WONG Ting-kwong also had similar experience. Precisely because not a few colleagues have been asked to leave the Chamber, I hope that after such clear rules have been set, this means will not be abused.

More importantly, I would like to highlight one point: Not a few cases in the past were handled on the basis of the old Rules of Procedure ("RoP"). After RoP is amended with the introduction of new wording, new structure and new understanding, the President, when enforcing the rules in future, will be allowed to have a new chapter and new opportunity to kick off a brand new kind of interpretation. This is a significant move, because according to public criticism, one of the reasons for the deterioration of the parliamentary culture in the Legislative Council is that RoP have not been strictly enforced. This amendment exercise can provide an opportunity for a fresh start or to start again. It is hoped that this amendment to RoP can provide a new opportunity to the President to restart a new way of interpretation, so that our parliamentary culture can further move forward.

Those who love sports will understand that whether in football or basketball matches, the rules need to move with the times, no matter how perfect they are. In the past, there was no VAR (video assistant referee), a referee could not make decisions with the assistance of video review. When it comes to football, I feel a little perplexed by the example quoted earlier by Dr Priscilla LEUNG concerning the football match between Brazil and France, because this was a match in 1998 and could not reflect the latest situation …

(Dr Priscilla LEUNG was responding in her seat)

Right, this match has left a deep impression on us, but it seemed to be too long ago.

Concerning the other point that I would like to raise, as I mentioned in my speech earlier, the Legislative Council should have the dignity to be respected just the same as courts, about which I believe not much elaboration is needed. Some colleagues mentioned the banana hurling incident, which can be regarded as the first move of window breaking, as in the broken windows theory that I cited in the past. When the window is broken and you do not fix it immediately, 4720 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 people's impression is that things will get worse, and likewise, the parliamentary culture will be on the decline. The incident of banana hurling is indeed the first step in the decline of parliamentary culture. It is unfortunate that the troublemaker is still at large, without being subject to genuine sanction no matter inside or outside the legislature.

I would also like to talk about the price to pay, an issue that a number of Members also mentioned earlier. The deterioration of parliamentary culture has already led to regression and coming to a standstill of society. This actually is not limited to regression in abstract sense, but also involves money and resources in objective and practical sense. Our society has spent quite a sum of public money on the operation of the legislature. But due to the lack of a set of comprehensive RoP or sufficient parliamentary sanction, according to the statistics provided by the Secretariat, millions of dollars of public money per hour have been wasted unnecessarily. Hence, filibustering is indeed a dollars-and-cents issue or a financial issue.

This does not involve the financial problem alone. As particularly mentioned by Mr KWOK Wai-keung earlier, it was more common that security staff suffered injuries in recent years. This situation did not happen in the past two sessions of the Legislative Council, but frequently happened during this session. Because some new and especially radical Members, who do not mind being injured at all, do not consider the personal safety of security staff. Since they are the initiators, they definitely will not consider their own personal safety, but neither do they consider the safety of other staff. This kind of highly selfish and inappropriate behaviour has led to a number of accidents.

Compared with the sanction against those members of Parliament in the United Kingdom who have failed to comply with the President's orders, the situation in Hong Kong is lagging far behind and rather lenient. In the example of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, after the Speaker has given an order, if the Member of Parliament concerned refuses to leave the venue on his own and enforcement by security staff is needed, there can be very serious consequences, not to mention the serious consequence of being carried away from the venue. But according to the tradition and practice in the United Kingdom, if a security officer or what they call sergeant-at-arms, who is responsible for law enforcement, walks to the side of the Member concerned and gives a slight pat on his shoulder, this Member will be unable to attend the parliamentary meetings for the rest of his term of office. The practice in the United Kingdom is far more LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4721 stringent than that in Hong Kong, and the legislature in Hong Kong is really lagging far behind.

President, a number of colleagues have mentioned about this Council's return to reasoning. I have to thank Dr CHENG Chung-tai for raising the question on the room for deliberation and deliberative culture, under the situation when there are fewer voices of opposition at present. Members may not fully understand his arguments, and perhaps he wanted to discuss the cultural matters in a more academic way. Anyway, I want to point out that the legislature should be just like a court where people resort to reasoning rather than force, engaging in the battle of words and wits with their sense of humour rather than engaging in any fights.

Different Members have different styles. For instance, Mr Wilson OR prefers giving interesting explanations by making use of his interaction and dialogues with the public, while Dr Priscilla LEUNG prefers giving an account on her work in the past so that people can understand the stages of development. It is fine to have different styles of speeches, as what is most important is that the subject becomes clearer through the debate and Members are speaking on the subject, thus benefiting each other. Even the style of Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, who prefers speaking succinctly without repeating his arguments, is also commendable.

As regards the saying that the more a subject is debated, the clearer it becomes, this can only be realized with an outstanding parliamentary culture. If the emphasis is placed on antics, political grandstanding or putting up a show, it is true that more attention and coverage from the media can be gained, but on the flip side, it does not have much function on the debate itself. I believe this is common knowledge to Members.

Besides, I want to discuss the issue of parliamentary culture. The opposition camp and even the radical Members used to say that if there was no procedural justice in the legislature, there would also be no justice in society, and thus their antagonistic behaviour was necessary in the legislature. This is the stance expression issue mentioned by Dr CHENG Chung-tai. I understand this point and would like to highlight through this opportunity that in amending RoP, it is also our wish to uphold the outstanding tradition, culture and civility of our legislature. Even though we stress that the majority rules, we definitely need to respect the voices of the minority and will particularly pay heed to their views. 4722 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Therefore, I will also pay particular attention to Dr CHENG Chung-tai's speeches and hope that a matter can be measured from different perspectives.

More importantly, I hope that the Government, after the concept of "patriots administering Hong Kong" has been introduced with the endorsement of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress or the amendment from this Council, will not be too high-handed in its administration in future. In case a measure is not benevolent and has created a lot of grievances in society, this Council will still be under pressure and become a place for political confrontations. It is our wish that with good progress and amendments made in terms of parliamentary culture, public resentment can be alleviated outside the legislature or in the community, so that there will be fewer political confrontations in the legislature, which is a microcosm of society.

President, some technical issues need to be clarified. They include firstly, this amendment exercise does not include financial sanction. Although this has been discussed and generally agreed by us, since amendment to the legislation concerned is needed, if the public think that after the passage of the proposed amendments, the Member concerned will be asked to leave the Chamber and pay a financial penalty, I am sorry to say that this cannot be realized at the moment and can only be done after the legislation is amended. Secondly, it is the issue of holding video meetings. This is not included in this amendment exercise, but the arrangement concerned has already been made in the motion passed previously.

In regard to the two points just mentioned by Dr CHENG Chung-tai, although he has, to be fair to himself, stated explicitly that he does not have deep understanding of the amendments concerned, I also want to give a brief clarification. First of all, in respect of the Third Reading arrangement, he thinks that it will stifle the room for deliberation so that Members will be deprived of the opportunity to make final remarks after discussion and debate or after listening to other Members' speeches, and after discussion of the amendments. As a matter of fact, as regards the speaking time of 15 minutes, from the past experience, firstly, only very few Members would speak and they usually spoke for the purpose of filibustering; and secondly, those Members' speeches were often interrupted by President because of digression. It is already provided in the existing RoP 63 that the debate on the motion shall be confined to the contents of the bill, but since the wording is not very clear, disputes were frequently seen in the past.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4723

This amendment concerned aims mainly to achieve the following. First, a reduction of the speaking time from 15 minutes to 3 minutes; second, Members are required to only express their stance of whether they would support a bill or otherwise, and they are not allowed or do not need to discuss again the general merits of the bill or the proposed amendments, as these should have been discussed at the Second Reading debate; and third, Members shall not have any debate on individual provisions of the bill. We wish to make this procedure clearer after the amendment, and also wish that Dr CHENG Chung-tai can understand the objective and effect of this amendment.

The second point that I want to supplement is related to adjournment motions. Dr CHENG Chung-tai thinks that it is a very good mechanism for us to have the opportunities to listen to the views from the community towards some significant and ad-hoc issues of great concern to the community during the Council meetings held on Wednesdays and Thursdays. In fact, this mechanism will still exist after the amendment. We only specify through the amendment that the general duration of a debate shall not exceed 1.5 hours, instead of following the old practice which is unclear. Members can still move adjournment motions and I hope Dr CHENG Chung-tai can understand that the room for deliberation has not been reduced.

President, finally, I have to thank again all those Members who have given their views on the proposed amendments, Members of the Committee on Rules of Procedure and the whole Council. They have responded very comprehensively and positively to the consultation on the proposed amendments. I usually feel quite reluctant to mention this, but please allow me to reiterate here that as a directly elected Member for two terms, I have included promoting a healthy democracy in my election manifesto. I always believe that no matter in the court or in the Council, without any healthy system, culture and civilized norms, we cannot make proper contributions to society.

In this regard, the Committee on Rules of Procedure wanted to propose amendments to RoP for several times, but to no avail due to the framework or hurdle of the rule on separate voting system. As mentioned by Mr Tommy CHEUNG whose attitude is rather pragmatic, he would not attempt the impossible, and that was exactly the case. Some colleagues may ask why there were not so many amendments during the time when Mr TAM Yiu-chung was the Chairman, whereas a lot of amendments are now proposed. This was not because of any shortcomings on the part of Mr TAM Yiu-chung, but was mainly due to the restrictions of our system in the past.

4724 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

I feel thankful and grateful that two major amendment exercises were able to be made within this term of office. It is my wish that through this amendment exercise, the legislature can have more room for rational discussion, continue to uphold the traditional and quality culture of Hong Kong and have room for quality deliberation just like the courts, so that our society can make a progress. Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr Paul TSE be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(A Member raised his hand)

Dr CHENG Chung-tai rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4725

Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Paul TSE, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Dr Junius HO, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan and Mr Vincent CHENG voted for the motion.

Dr CHENG Chung-tai voted against the motion.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 23 were present and 22 were in favour of the motion; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 17 were present, 16 were in favour of the motion and 1 against it. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the motion was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Debate on motion with no legislative effect.

Mr Kenneth LAU will move a motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy".

Mr Steven HO will move an amendment to the motion.

This Council will proceed to a joint debate on the motion and the amendment.

Later, I will first call upon Mr Kenneth LAU to speak and move the motion. Then I will call upon Mr Steven HO to speak, but he may not move the amendment at this stage.

4726 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

The joint debate now begins. Members who wish to speak please press the "Request to speak" button

I now call upon Mr Kenneth LAU to speak and move the motion.

MOTION ON "FORMULATING A COMPREHENSIVE RURAL DEVELOPMENT POLICY"

MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): The motion moved by me is set out in the Agenda. President, Hong Kong is an integral part of China. On the premise of "one country, two systems", we should not only respect "one country", we are also duty-bound to protect China's sovereignty, safety and development interests. How Hong Kong should play its role under the "two systems" principle, to support the National 14th Five-Year Plan and the overall development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"), to let the Central Government have a peace of mind and rest assured, to avoid giving our country worries and trouble. All of these will be the future axis of "patriots administering Hong Kong". President, this is the main purpose for me to move the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy".

Hong Kong is a meeting point for East and West cultures. We have a densely populated metropolitan, and we also have vast expanses of rural areas. By virtue of its advantageous geographical location, Hong Kong has become an international financial hub after many years of hard work. But land is essential to its ability to maintain its edge. For that reason, former Legislative Council Member and former Chairman of the Dr LAU Wong-fat had been advocating the concept of "Developing the to promote the prosperity of Hong Kong".

A number of new towns in the New Territories, including , Sha Tin and , have been developed over the years to provide homes more than half of Hong Kong's population, which has adequately shown that the key to the further development of Hong Kong's urbanization lies in how to optimize the development of the vast expanses of rural land in the New Territories in an orderly manner. This is the principal axis for the future administration of Hong Kong. The development of the New Territories can effectively resolve deep-rooted conflicts, such as the housing and livelihood problem for the people on the one hand, and create a more favourable business environment on the other. As far as Hong Kong as an international metropolitan is concerned, it is the vast expanses of rural land in the New Territories which will provide the biggest room LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4727 for development and the biggest area of land for use, I am not talking about such traditional core business districts such as the Central or Tsim Sha Tsui.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

The development of the New Territories requires a set of sound and viable rural policies in order to complement the Outline Development Plan for the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. Unfortunately, there are still many backward developments in the rural areas in the New Territories now, which should be improved and cared by the Government. In view of this, I urge the Government to formulate a comprehensive set of rural development policies on four aspects, so as to meet the livelihood needs in rural areas and implement a sustainable development strategy for the New Territories.

First, we need to tackle the biggest problem in rural areas, that is, the provision of infrastructure facilities. I raised a written question in 2018 to ask the Administration about the issue of the "Supply of tap water to remote villages". At that time, the Government responded that 15 villages did not have treated water supply mainly because of their sparse population. Besides, the cost for the construction of treated water supply systems for these villages would be too high. Similarly, some remote villages do not have vehicular access, and the Government has refused to build such access roads on the ground that the per capita capital cost for the construction of such access roads is too high.

Deputy President, this is exactly a chicken and egg question. If the Government refuses to construct treated water supply system and access road for a village because it is sparsely populated, then I will ask the question in reverse, if the Government is not going to construct treated water supply systems and access roads for the rural areas, how can residents return to their villages and live there so as to optimize the benefit of land? When Hong Kong is facing the problem of land shortage and the Government is moaning about inadequate land supply, has it made better use of remote villages and their surrounding areas? If the Government is willing to construct treated water supply, power supply and sewerage systems and to develop public facilities which will have less environmental impact for these villages, such as quality homes for the elderly, outdoor training centres for young people, or resort hotels or camps, so as to make use of the surplus land in villages to create favourable conditions for improving the quality of living of Hong Kong people and boosting the economy. I believe that landowners will be willing to offer their private lands for public use 4728 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 and the development of sharing economy with a view to achieving a win-win result.

Second, the frontier closed area restriction for town should be relaxed. As the Sha Tau Kok town is situated at the boundary between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, it can support the planning of the Greater Bay Area and has to potential to become a major town in boundary area, and it may also promote the industry of the Northeast New Territories. However, the town has all along been tied up by its status as the "frontier closed area", which has hindered its development.

As the Shenzhen Municipal People's Government has decided to revamp all the land boundary control points of Shenzhen, all land freight transport will adhere to the principle of "East in East out, (Liantang Port), West in West out (Shenzhen Bay Port)". As a result, the Huanggang Port and Sha Tau Kok Port will be redeveloped, the goods customs clearance function will be abolished and they will become pure passenger ports. If we take a look at Hong Kong, the Government has all along been rejecting the call for setting up a boundary control point at Sha Tau Kok Town and relaxing the restriction on the grounds of security reasons and insufficient space.

What is more ridiculous is that the Sha Tau Kok public pier is located within the frontier closed area, and yet it is the longest pier in Hong Kong. The pier started its reconstruction in 2004 and the project was completed in 2007 at a cost of $46 million. Members of the public may use the Kaito ferry services at the pier to travel to and Ap Chau. The public may take a 20-minute boat trip to the scenic spot at Lai Chi Wo, but as the Government has not removed the policy barriers, the chance for the public to make use of the pier has been greatly reduced.

Over the past few years, I have been urging the Government to relax the restriction. It is because with the development of the Greater Bay Area, the New Territories is no longer a frontier or a boundary, but a pivotal point to promote Hong Kong's integration with the overall international development. The relaxation of the frontier closed area restriction policy is conducive to the cooperation between Guangdong and Hong Kong, and it will also help the development of the eco-tourism in Sha Tau Kok, which, apart from boosting local economy and improving the livelihood of local residents, will help to increase the supply of land and enhance Hong Kong's edge in development in the long run. In my opinion, the Government may relax the frontier closed area restriction during holidays on a trial basis, and then conduct a review in preparation for a total lifting of the restriction.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4729

Third, I suggest the gradual promotion of the development of smart rural areas. I am happy that the Government has adopted the Heung Yee Kuk's suggestion in the Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong 2.0 by implementing Smart Village Pilots in selected villages for the provision of public Wi-Fi services, smart traffic system and telehealth services, and making use of innovative technology for the early detection of hill fire and landslides. All of these will enable villagers to feel the benefits of innovative technology.

The cornerstone for smart rural areas is a stable mobile network coverage. At present, the household broadband penetration rate in Hong Kong has reached over 90%, but residents in rural areas have to endure an expensive but sluggish network speed. It is not an uncommon sight that optical fibre cables can only reach the entrance of a village but not each household in a village. I have urged the Government for many times that it should achieve the goal of making available optical fibre network to each and every household in Hong Kong. It should also roll out the 5G mobile network system in rural areas to provide essential telecommunication infrastructure for the development of smart rural areas. Otherwise, all the so-called smart measures are only empty talks.

Deputy President, the construction of smart rural areas should not be just a policy slogan. The three major measures for benefiting the public should be implemented as soon as practicable. First, smart lampposts should be installed in order to conduct real-time monitoring at bus stops and piers through a smart monitoring system, so that the frequencies of bus or ferry services can be increased in a timely manner with a view to facilitating crowd control and improving the traffic congestion in rural areas. Second, the Government should develop teleconsultation. As villages are mostly located in remote areas, residents living in villages have to travel a long way if they need to seek medical consultation. In view of the pandemic, it is even more difficult for residents living in rural areas to seek medical consultation. For that reason, the provision of teleconsultation for elderly people brooks no delay. Third, the Government should set up smart recycling systems in villages in order to collect recyclables at designated time and locations, with a view to reducing the piling up of rubbish and improving the environmental hygiene of rural areas.

The topic of rural development has never been a focal point for the Government in its policy implementation. But the time has changed. The Government should get rid of the old and bring in the new. For that reason, I urge the Government in the final part of my motion to allocate additional resources by injecting $5 billion into a "rural development and construction fund" to foster sustainable rural development in an orderly manner. The fund should be comprised of five parts: First, the fund for infrastructure development to 4730 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 improve rural infrastructures; second, the fund for cultural heritage to conserve the unique culture and traditional customs of the New Territories; third, the fund for rural tourism to promote eco-tourism and stimulate local economy; fourth, the fund for nature conservation and land development to make compensation to landowners affected by conservation projects; and fifth, the fund for emergency support to provide timely financial support to villagers affected by natural disasters and accidents.

Deputy President, Honourable Members, during the 99 years of the British occupation of the New Territories, Hong Kong had undergone significant changes. The New Territories has transited from an agricultural-dominated community into a rural community of diversified characteristics. In the course of its development, the colonial Government took away the rightful interests of landowners in the New Territories through the introduction of unfair legislation. Before Dongjiang water was supplied to Hong Kong, the colonial Government diverted water sources for farming irrigation purposes to its reservoirs in order to meet the water needs of Hong Kong's population, which had placed the farming community in the New Territories in dire straits. The then British Hong Kong Government acquired lands at a low price, but sold them at high price in auctions, which had aroused great public indignation.

Notwithstanding these unfair treatments, it is through the mediation efforts of the Heung Yee Kuk and on the basis of mutual understanding that the New Territories has achieved what it is today. After the reunification, New Territories people in Hong Kong have had high expectations for the SAR Government. But after years of twists and turns, villagers have felt that the Government seems to show less respect to New Territories people. The Government seldom incorporates the views of the Heung Yee Kuk or 27 Rural Committees when formulating its policies. For that reason, the successful implementation of the four major suggestions made by me concerning the formulation of rural development policies will depend on three decisive factors.

First, before the introduction of policies, due to its redundant structures, the lack of cross-departmental coordination and the fact that every government department only takes care of its own business, they will shirk responsibilities in the course of dealing with certain problems. As former Premier ZHU Rongji pointed out, the Government had been in a state where "no decision had been made after deliberation and no action was taken even after a decision had been made". As a result, even a good plan will end up being dragged on and on for a long time. For that reason, I suggest that the Government should form a cross-departmental rural development unit under the Development Bureau to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4731 coordinate all the matters concerning rural development, so as to assign dedicated people to deal with task-based jobs.

Second, the Government should examine whether or not the relevant laws are too harsh and outdated, or they are simply not suitable for today's situation, particularly in the areas of development, people's livelihood and conservation. As to whether development is the top priority or conservation is the top priority, the Government should examine all the laws and regulations in order to prevent some anti-China and Hong Kong elements from obstructing the overall direction of sustainable development on the pretext of environmental protection.

Third, good communication between government officials and residents should be maintained. The development of the New Territories in the past decades has proven the important role played by the Heung Yee Kuk as a bridge between the Government and the people. For that reason, I hope that apart from consulting District Councils, the SAR Government will maintain good cooperation with the Heung Yee Kuk when it deals with matters concerning the New Territories, with a view to making the development of the New Territories a success. New Territories people will be happy to see that their homes and lands under the concept of urban-rural symbiosis can contribute to the successful implementation of "one country, two systems".

The New Territories is the foundation and lifeline of the future development of Hong Kong. As long as the New Territories is developed well, Hong Kong will prosper. Deputy President, I urge Members to support my motion. I would like to declare my interests here: I own lands in the New Territories.

Thank you, Deputy President.

Mr Kenneth LAU moved the following motion: (Translation)

"That as the Government lacks a long-term and comprehensive rural development policy in the process of developing the New Territories, rural areas have failed to strike a balance between development and conservation, resulting in ever-increasing conflicts and confrontations between urban and rural areas; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to formulate a comprehensive rural development policy covering such areas as rural living environment, infrastructure support, promoting the culture and traditional customs of the New Territories and boosting the economy, so as to meet the livelihood needs in rural areas and implement a sustainable development strategy for the New 4732 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Territories, thereby achieving urban-rural symbiosis; specific proposals are as follows:

(1) proactively allocating resources to supply fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems to remote villages; carrying out road construction projects and enhancing public pier facilities to increase the flow of people and goods; and facilitating agricultural rehabilitation in villages, promoting eco-tourism and developing sharing economy, so as to revive remote villages;

(2) actively and expeditiously considering relaxing the frontier closed area restriction of Sha Tau Kok ('STK') Town and opening up the STK public pier to facilitate public access to STK and peripheral islands such as Kat O and Ap Chau, with a view to promoting leisure tourism, thereby revitalizing these districts and improving the local economy and employment situation;

(3) making optimal use of innovative technology to progressively promote the development of 'smart rural areas', including rolling out 5G mobile network system to increase Internet access speeds in villages; setting up smart recycling system pilot sites in villages to collect recyclables at designated time and locations; extending the use of intelligent monitoring systems to rural areas to detect natural disasters such as hill fires, floods, thunderstorms and landslides, and to provide instant forecasts; setting up 'smart lampposts' in villages to improve the use of single two-lane carriageways in villages; progressively developing teleconsultation so that patients in villages with stable conditions who have to attend follow-up consultations can receive appropriate treatment; and

(4) setting up a 'rural development and construction fund' comprising five parts, namely 'infrastructure development', 'cultural heritage', 'rural tourism', 'nature conservation and land development' and 'emergency support', with a view to fostering sustainable rural development in a comprehensive and orderly manner, including promoting rural infrastructure, cultural heritage, eco-tourism and conservation, as well as providing appropriate support should incidents affecting livelihood in rural areas occur."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr Kenneth LAU be passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4733

MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Mr Kenneth LAU for proposing the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy".

The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong ("DAB") certainly supports Mr Kenneth LAU's original motion, but we hope to add some ideas from our party and from myself to the motion. In fact, agriculture and fisheries constituency is closely related to Mr LAU's Heung Yee Kuk constituency. It is because we can find elements of agriculture in fisheries and villages are involved in agriculture; and some village representatives are indigenous villagers and we have fishery representatives sitting in Heung Yee Kuk. So, our work is surely closely related to Heung Yee Kuk and Mr Kenneth LAU.

However, when we talk about "rural area", the term may cover a broader meaning. An Internet research on the word "rural" may return rural representative election or rural public works programme, which Casper may touch on later. In fact, any places accessible by people may have people living in there, and these places can be located in tourist districts. Places that people can get in touch with or care about are often places that are popular with the public. Some places do not get as much attention from the public because they are less accessible.

That is why in the past years, I often criticized the SAR Government … perhaps the Secretary for Development is here. Many fishermen use piers, and one such pier is in Ma Wan. The pier is not located in a rural area, but it is the only gateway to the countryside. Fishermen often use the fish culture zone there. The pier might have been constructed by some unknown landlord from Qing Dynasty by piling up a stone quay outside a shipyard for berthing. Probably because the stone quay structurally did not meet the requirement of the law, the Government said decades later that the pier was not under the list of government piers and thus would not be given any government funding. I remember some five or six or seven years later, or a few years ago, the stone quay collapsed after decades of usage. But the Government refused to provide funding for its repair. Can the fishermen raise fund themselves for the repair? No, they cannot because the pier is located in a public area but it is not a government pier. So, what can be done? The fishermen have been using it for almost 100 years. Mr LAU said just now that it had been there for 99 years. I think it should be more than that because the pier was there in the Qing Dynasty. 4734 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Hence, when it comes to rural development policy, I find it necessary to supplement some ideas to what Mr Kenneth LAU has said.

The Government only considers the flow of people when it decides to construct a pier. How could a pier used by fishermen or villagers be comparable to the outlying district ferry service piers or the Hong Kong-Macao Ferry Terminal that carry people to Macao for leisure activities? Maintenance projects concerning the latter are often classified as Category A projects and are given priority for funding approval. Fellow Legislative Council Members, please be reminded that we are not supposed to give our habitual approval to government funding proposals on redeveloping or repairing the Hong Kong-Macao Ferry Terminal. Do not forget that there are often another 10, or 20, or even 30 funding proposals on other pier works projects we need to consider.

Certainly, the Development Bureau … or before became the Chief Executive, the Government already started the plan of putting these works projects under its list. However, the maintenance projects on ferry terminals that are tourism-related are often accorded priority. Do people only travel to different places for tour? These ferry terminals are often not directly related to the villagers and fishermen living in the areas. Worse still, as I said in the beginning, the pier they use is not even managed by the Government.

So, here, I wish to tell the SAR Government that, first, it must also pay attention to this issue when it formulates the rural development strategy. Mr Kenneth LAU says that there are four key points in his motion; and I add one more point in my amendment, including building public toilets, helping villagers to collect refuse, setting up fibre-based networks … A Member already put a question on this subject yesterday. In part (5) of my amendment, I mention the need to conduct "a study to amend outdated legislation and offering suitable spaces to support essential facilities affected by rural development". What do I mean by "essential facilities"? Examples of "essential facilities" are vegetable depots, vegetable marketing cooperative societies and farms. These facilities may not be important to you, but they are very important to me. I have repeatedly talked about this with the Secretary for Development. Farmers are not always adamant about the Government's requests for farmland, and fishermen are not always adamant about the Government's reclamation proposals either. They only want a suitable place to relocate their fisheries, so as to minimize social conflicts. This is the crux of the matter.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4735

Mr Kenneth LAU stresses in the beginning the need to construct roads. Can we stop people, however small the number of people is, from walking pass a place? Frontline farmers have conflicting feelings about road construction. They would rather have no roads constructed for them. Once roads are constructed, their farmland is prone to destruction. They would then have to abandon their farmland and leave. But the price of their farmland, which would often become brownfield sites later, rises after their departure. How could these farmers who live by farming afford to rent these sites again? They are thus worried.

Quite some time ago the rolled out an Agricultural Park ("Agri-Park"). It was an initiative put forth in the CY LEUNG era and has been implemented for five years since then. The proposal won the support of farmers because of a road. Given that the site selected had been planned for the Agri-Park, no matter how wide the road is built, the area will be designated for farming. Farmers thus supported the construction of the road. This shows that the Development Bureau must consider planning as well.

What I want to say is that society needs land to develop. There are 4 500 hectares of farmland in Hong Kong. Honestly speaking, I have asked members of my constituency and they say that they cannot use up all the farmland. At present, about 1 000 hectares of the farmland are now used for farming. Let us say that we reserve 2 000 hectares for development. Is that enough? Some farmland may have already been destroyed and the site owners are waiting for the Government to submit a change of land use to the Town Planning Board ("TPB"). However, it is precisely because of the Government's poor development planning, it had better not set its sights on the farmland. If it does so, I would definitely voice my objection to TPB. It would hear the opposition voices, including mine. Why? If the Government were to solve this problem, make its planning right first. The SAR Government is not doing a good job in this regard. It does not have a proper policy for agriculture or fisheries.

Regarding the agriculture policy I just mentioned, the SAR Government has been very lax in this respect. Although it has launched the New Agriculture Policy, the policy is only a framework. When I thanked CY LEUNG, the former Chief Executive for the policy, I said I was only thanking him for his sincerity. I did not say that he had done a particularly good job, though he had allocated $500 million for the development of agriculture, which was better than none. Why did I have such a comment? I might have expressed my 4736 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 thankfulness to him, but he should not forget to consider the planning of land I just mentioned. When the Government injects money into this sector, it must also think about whether it has formulated a good policy. And there is none at the moment. As a result, I dare not support the Government to do something as simple as building a road, because farmers are perplexed. They are not sure whether they should allow the Government to construct the road and support the change of land use. The SAR Government will have to carefully tackle this issue in the future.

Next, I wish to talk about fisheries. I just mentioned the Hong Kong-Macao Ferry Terminal. I have not finished with this subject. Some people use part of the rural areas for housing development. Some people prefer enjoying the agricultural ecology at Lai Chi Wo, or paying a visit to Kwu Tung, if there is still any agriculture activities left in the future. So, in this sense, the Government should develop home-stay lodgings, or even preserve building compounds with rural characteristics. Am I correct? In the conversations with my overseas friends, they often ask why buildings in Hong Kong, especially those built by the Government, all look similar. They say that only one type of buildings look the same in their country and they are prisons. In Hong Kong, all buildings are the same without any characteristics. People like the night scenery of the Victory Harbour. The only reason is that the buildings are very beautiful. So, if the SAR Government is to continue to preserve the rural characteristics, it needs to consider measures related to building characteristics and home-stay lodgings, as well as problems such as transportation.

I live in a small village house in the rural area. I have to thank Mr LAU for preserving a piece of rural land for me … but the land is of course not mine; otherwise, I would have no place to live. The Transport Department, or Secretary , often fails to tackle transport problems. It takes a long time to approve an application for a residents bus line. The buses never arrive on schedule. When the Government conducts rural planning, it must enhance the transport network. He can have a discussion with Mr LAU and explore the possibility of building an environmentally friendly linkage system in certain rural areas, which is relatively lower in cost, so that the sector can conduct their business operation according to the timetable. This can be an option. But it is only my suggestion. I dare not say that we must build such a linkage system, but we can at least conduct a study on it.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4737

I mentioned just now a pier in North East New Territories which fishermen often use. It is now located within a closed area. The Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") has a policy, and that is, it can issue licence to mariculturists for operating recreational fishing to increase revenue. For example, Mr SHIU Ka-fai can pay $50 or $100 and go fishing cultured fish there. But in fact, this policy is inapplicable to mariculture rafts in North East New Territories because these rafts are located within the closed area. The location has good natural resources. Should the Government not let fishermen use it? But indeed, the policy on recreational fishing should not be managed by AFCD. It should be managed by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department under the . As long as mariculturists comply with the requirements on cooking (using only small but not big flame) and sewerage, they should be issued a licence for recreational fishing and people should be allowed to have aquatic activities at their rafts. If a fisherman is a mariculturist, he should be issued a licence for marine fish culture. Otherwise, recreational fishing cannot be successfully taken forward under the Marine Fish Culture Ordinance.

I still have about one minute left. Mr CHAN Hak-kan just came back. He reminds me of the need to mention Sam Mun Tsai Village in New Territories East. If I remember correctly, it was in 1966 that the Government ordered people living in Sam Mun Tsai Village to relocate, so as to make way for the construction of the Plover Cove Reservoir. The villagers were deceived by the British Hong Kong Government because they moved into buildings that were built with seawater. It is incredible that they can still live in those buildings today. In the interim, they raised funds themselves for the repair, which was led by Mr CHAN Hak-kan. I was still small at that time. He is my predecessor. The Government constructed "seawater buildings" for the villagers. Ten years later, the villagers sought help from Legislative Council Members, complaining that they had been repeatedly deceived by the Government. They asked how they could restore their buildings and whether Members could help them. But sorry, I am afraid it was not so written in their agreement with the British Hong Kong Government. So, I wish to say one last thing to the SAR Government. I will not talk about the refuse with the Government. Would it please deal with village chief Mr SHEK's problem first.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support Mr Kenneth LAU's motion, and I urge for Members' support of the amendment proposed by Mr Steven HO of DAB. Thank you, Deputy President.

4738 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, to begin with, I wish to thank Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Steven HO for their original motion and amendment respectively. All along, the Government has attached a great deal of importance to the well-being of residents in rural areas, and also to the natural ecology and humanistic value of the areas concerned. The contents of the motion today cover various different domains, such as infrastructure development, transportation, economy, culture and environmental protection, and it involves the purviews of various Policy Bureaux. But then, they all pertain to one question, the question of how to improve the environment and development of rural areas. After consulting various Policy Bureaux and departments, I will give on overall introduction on our various measures in the following part of my speech.

The first point is that the Government has striven to improve infrastructure development in rural areas. It will conduct timely examination of various public facilities and undertake any improvements on a need basis. In the case of those villages without fresh water supply, for instance, the Government will review their circumstances regularly and consider the construction of a fresh water supply system for them under the established principle. The Government will likewise take forward stormwater drainage works in a timely fashion to rectify the flood problem in rural areas. Besides, we always encourage the two power companies to install corresponding power supply facilities based on actual needs in communities, so as to provide reliable, stable and safe power supply services. At the same time, we will also appropriately expand the public sewerage network to rural areas, having regard to their population and other relevant factors. When it comes to telecommunications networks, the Government has put in place the Subsidy Scheme to Extend Fibre-based Networks to Villages in Remote Areas as a means to encourage telecommunications service providers to set up telecommunications networks and facilitate the construction of fifth-generation (5G) mobile networks. In view of the transportation need in rural areas, the Government will likewise provide or improve the relevant facilities where appropriate. Speaking of works projects that are not large in scale, the Government will assist rural areas in constructing or improving their footways, vehicular access and drainage facilities with funding from the Rural Public Works Programme.

Besides, having regard to the specific circumstances of rural areas, the Government has also devoted ongoing efforts to providing incentives for various economic activities and in turn offering residents more job opportunities of a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4739 higher quality. For instance, the establishment of agricultural parks as mentioned by Mr HO just now and also the provision of technical support for farmers can assist farmers in undertaking agricultural activities, while the provision of training and financial support may also help fishermen develop recreational fisheries. In view of the exceptional environment of rural areas, the relevant government departments have formulated licensing requirements or procedural guidelines for guesthouses and catering businesses in the relevant areas to facilitate and drive the development of related activities.

It is also the Government's wish to make the life of residents in rural areas more convenient and safer with the use of technology. In an attempt to bring convenience to such residents, the Government will gradually install mobile hotspots at various village offices and village councils from April 2021 onwards to provide free mobile network services. Speaking of safety and emergency response services, we have also adopted technologies for the real-time monitoring of major hydrological data and debris-resistant barriers, so that we can give a quick response in the event of flood and landslide risks.

Furthermore, the Government also treasures the ecological value and cultural characteristics of rural areas. This explains why in the course of promoting their economic development, we have also joined hands with local communities in actively conserving their original ecology and culture, so as to achieve the purpose of sustainable development. At the beginning of his speech, Mr Kenneth LAU asked to this effect: "Which of them is of unyielding importance? Development or conservation?" Actually, on the part of the Government, we always maintain that development and conservation are not mutually exclusive. If the wording "unyielding importance" must be used, then I will say that perhaps, achieving sustainable development is of "unyielding importance". In this regard, the Government launched the Countryside Conservation Funding Scheme in October 2019 to promote a diversified range of innovative conservation activities and projects, and the Intangible Cultural Heritage Funding Scheme implemented by the Government since the beginning of 2019 has also provided appropriate funding support for many intangible cultural heritage projects in the New Territories region.

Deputy President, in order to effectively promote the development of rural areas and achieve inclusiveness for urban and rural development, coordination and cooperation involving various sides are indispensable. In this connection, the various Policy Bureaux and departments of the Government have introduced a 4740 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 great deal of different measures one after another, and the examples I mentioned just now are some of them. In the debate that follows, Secretary for Home Affairs Caspar TSUI and I will listen carefully to the speeches of Honourable Members. Later on, we will give our replies and make additions where appropriate. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Mr Kenneth LAU's motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy" and Mr Steven HO's amendment to the motion. The two Members have pointed out in detail many rural development problems and inadequate facilities. They have also provided their views on the direction of future development. I very much support their views, but I will not elaborate on every detail.

I am a directly elected Member serving the New Territories district. I often work in villages. In my opinion, there are three incongruities in the New Territories or in the rural area. First, it is the incongruity between the development of the New Territories North villages and that of Shenzhen; second, the incongruity within the Government; and third, the incongruity between the Government and the villagers.

First, it is the incongruity between the New Territories North villages and Shenzhen. Secretary, I already talked to you about this yesterday. North District is the core of the Greater Bay Area development. But the Government has put all obnoxious facilities in North District, such as landfill, food waste collection plant, columbarium, etc. This arrangement will hinder the development of the Greater Bay Area. As far as planning is concerned, our Government has fallen behind its neighbouring counterparts in taking forward the Greater Bay Area development concepts. This also constitutes the incongruity between Hong Kong and Shenzhen. I will keep on raising this point even if I find myself annoying. I will talk about this every time I speak as long as the Government does not change its planning. Secretary, this is the first incongruity.

Second, it is the incongruity within the Government. What I just said is one such example. If the Government has a long-term rural development strategy, it would not have selected the New Territories as the location for landfill, food waste collection plant, columbarium, etc, which I just mentioned. The Secretary should be able to see that all Policy Bureaux are putting their ideas LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4741 in the New Territories. The Transport and Housing Bureau wants to find land in the New Territories for public housing construction. The Food and Health Bureau wants to find land in the New Territories for columbaria. The Environment Bureau wants to build a food waste collection plant there. They try any ideas they can think of in the New Territories, thus making the planning there very chaotic. Has the Government made any overall coordination or planning? Yes, it has, but only for new development areas, such as the Hung Shui Kiu New Development Area and the North East New Territories New Development Areas. As for other areas, different Bureau Directors want to try their ideas in any farmland or village sites available, thus making the development of some parts of the New Territories very chaotic. The situation is not satisfactory.

For the second example, Deputy President, I want you to look at this photo. You can find me standing handsomely in this photo, but the focus is not on me, but on the two inscribed boards hanging behind me. Secretary, can you read the words? One is inscribed "Wukui" ("武魁"), meaning top in martial art. The inscription on the other board is not very clear. It says "Yuqian Shiwei" ("御前 侍衞"), meaning imperial guard. How awesome! You probably can only find these names in Cantonese feature films or martial art movies. These two inscribed boards have been passed down from the Qing Dynasty, but are now left idle in a dilapidated place. I was thrilled when I saw the inscribed boards and immediately took a photo with them.

I believe Mr Kenneth LAU has seen many such artefacts. The problem is that these artefacts of historical value are casually kept in villages, without any conservation or maintenance, nor any mention of their cultural or historical value. If I did not show this photo to Members today, Members probably would not know their existence, nor would they know that there had been a person living in the New Territories who attained top score in martial art examination and was an imperial guard. I do not know whether this person worn a sword or not; if so, he might be of an even higher rank. These artefacts are of high historical value, but they are only kept and maintained by villagers in the New Territories.

I walked further into the village after finding these artefacts and found more artefacts of value. Unfortunately, I forgot to bring those photos. One is a bridal sedan chair of Qing Dynasty, where a bride would sit inside in escort to the groom's house. Due to lack of maintenance, the bridal sedan chair is rather broken and is left idle in the village. I asked the village chief whether he had 4742 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 informed the Government. I believe that it can be sent to the Museum of History, which is under the portfolio of Secretary Caspar TSUI, for exhibition. The village chief said he had informed the Bureau. He believed it was the Antiquities and Monuments … I do not quite remember which department he said. Deputy President, it turned out that the Bureau took one of the bridal sedan chairs, the one in better shape, and left the broken one in the village. The villagers do not know how to preserve it and leave it to the mercy of termites. I raise this problem because I want to point out the importance of preserving rural culture.

I have looked and found that the Government has a Countryside Conservation Funding Scheme dedicated to preserving rural culture and historical relics. Am I right, Secretary? But the Scheme is not under the portfolios of the two Secretaries, but under that of Secretary WONG Kam-sing. Will Secretary WONG pay attention to these matters? He is only interested in municipal solid waste charging, as well as preserving elephants that Hong Kong cannot manage to conserve. He does not care about things that should be preserved in Hong Kong. What can we do? This precisely shows the incongruity within the Government. No matter how much more time we use, we cannot finish naming all these incongruities. I thus hope that the Secretary can pay more attention to these public sentiments and opinions.

I do not have much time left. Third, it is about the incongruity between the Government and the villagers. The Government often wants to do things that villagers dislike in the villages. The villagers wanted to set up a home for the aged in a school premise at the old area of , but the Government wanted to build transitional housing there. The villagers suggested dividing the site into half, but the Government was unwilling to do so. This is the incongruity between the Government and the villagers. If the Government can comprehensively review rural policies and coordinate the ideas and approaches of several Policy Bureaux, I believe rural development has infinite potential. But please, do not trigger conflicts because of developing rural areas (The buzzer sounded) …

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Hak-kan, your speaking time is up.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4743

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving his original motion and Mr Steven HO for moving his amendment. I believe that formulating a comprehensive rural development policy is something that affects the long-term development and overall planning of Hong Kong. Not only people living in the rural areas but also all sectors of society are very concerned about this subject.

Deputy President, the original motion stresses, right in the beginning, that Hong Kong lacks a long-term and comprehensive rural development policy. I hold that the root of the problem lies in the fact that we do not have a comprehensive planning for the long-term development of Hong Kong. The two form a part-whole relationship. Hence, over the years, I have persistently urged the HKSAR Government to improve the existing planning mechanism and formulate a long-term development planning. I have also urged the Government to expeditiously complete the "Hong Kong 2030+: Towards a Planning Vision and Strategy Transcending 2030", which is an updated study.

As compared with the planning of the urban areas, which are the more developed part of Hong Kong, the planning of the rural areas will bring about greater development potential and possibilities. At the same time, however, rural planning must also take care of different factors. One must strike a balance between development and conservation, strive to respect rural cultures, traditions and customs, and suitably preserve local characteristics. I thus have repeatedly reminded the authorities of the need to review the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines and the related guidelines, flexibly handle the development of different social facilities based on the different needs of various districts in the territory and avoid adopting an "across-the-board" approach. This can help foster urban-rural symbiosis.

In order to speed up rural development, the HKSAR Government must prescribe the right remedy for the problems. Apart from formulating a comprehensive rural development strategy, it should also proactively invest resources in improving rural living environment and infrastructure support, which include improving their fresh water and electricity supply, telecommunication networks and sewerage systems; finalizing construction projects on roads, railways and public piers; promoting the cultures, traditions and customs of the New Territories; promoting eco-tourism, etc.

4744 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

In her Policy Address 2017, the Chief Executive announced that the Government would improve a number of remote public piers to facilitate access to rural attractions and natural heritage by the public. The first phase of the improvement works include 10 public piers located in the New Territories and on outlying islands. The Government has completed the planning of some pier projects, such as those for the Kau Sai Village Pier and Lai Chi Chong Pier, and submitted their funding proposals to the Legislative Council for approval. I believe these are people-friendly measures that can benefit the public, and they are positive steps taken by the Government to revive the economy in the "post-pandemic era". I have repeatedly urged the Government to facilitate the implementation of large, medium and small projects of different varieties, so as to stimulate economic recovery by promoting infrastructure development and solve various social and livelihood problems. And these projects include those that promote rural development.

Since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2019, visitors to Hong Kong have all but disappeared. However, local people are getting restless after staying at home for so long. An increasing number of people are going to the countryside, including country parks, on weekends or holidays. Taking advantage of this trend, the Government should strengthen communication with different rural committees and local organizations to improve and better manage different rural facilities, so as to address public hygiene issues caused by increasing flow of people to countryside during the pandemic, such as those concerning disease prevention, littering and waste accumulation. By so doing, we can revitalize the rural areas and promote the development of local eco-tours and leisure tourism, thereby improving the economy and employment situation in the areas and at the same time, finding a way out for our tourism industry.

Deputy President, I very much agree with the optimal use of innovative technology to promote the development of "smart rural areas". The Government released the "Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong 2.0" on 10 December 2020. It stresses the need to explore the implementation of smart village pilot initiatives in rural areas. These initiatives include providing Wi-Fi services and enhancing telecommunication coverage and capacities to detect illegal dumping, wild animals and flooding and strengthen security in rural villages; installing relevant facilities at village offices and using e-payment for the provision of telehealth services for the elderly living in remote areas; using smart traffic system for LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4745 certain roads to improve road situation; and using robotics and artificial intelligence to help early detection of hill fire in country parks.

I hope the authorities can take real actions and expeditiously discuss and finalize these initiatives with rural stakeholders, and draw up implementation timetables and key performance indicators for these projects. I have urged the Government for years to be more forward-looking in planning and finalizing new development areas by adding smart and green elements into the projects, and making advance planning of both hardware and software infrastructures such as telecommunication, pipe network, smart home, green architecture, etc., and using innovative technology and big data to make proper planning of transport, healthcare, environment protection and elderly service, with a view to turning Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society. I believe that the same principle is applicable to the various development initiatives for promoting "smart rural areas".

Deputy President, Hong Kong is our home. The extensive countryside is the backyard at our home. It certainly deserves our careful planning and care through hard work.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support that the original motion moved by Mr Kenneth LAU and the amendment moved by Mr Steven HO be passed.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Mr Kenneth LAU's original motion and Mr Steven HO's amendment. I also thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving this motion so that we can discuss rural development policy here.

I have always held that Hong Kong lacks a long-term and comprehensive rural development policy. In the rural areas that I serve, I often receive many complaints and requests from village representatives and residents, but every time a problem needs to be solved, I have to go through many different government departments and nothing is achieved despite years of delay. Even for us, Members of the Legislative Council, it is very time consuming to deal with these problems, so how would the residents of rural areas be able to solve them?

4746 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

This motion has raised many demands that we have been pushing for in this Council, such as providing remote villages with fresh water, electricity, sewerage systems, roads, and so on. The Secretary said earlier in his speech that basic facilities would be provided from time to time according to the needs of the rural areas, but in practice, it is really very difficult to push for them. I have an example of success in pushing for the supply of fresh water. In fact, tap water is available anywhere in Hong Kong as long as there are residents, with the exception, however, of Mui Tsz Lam Village in Ma On Shan, where there is really no fresh water supply. I have spent many years pushing for it―10 years, to say the least. Now, after fighting tooth and nail, I have finally succeeded in making it happen. The water supply facilities are being put in place. Although there is no water supply in the area yet, the efforts should be considered successful. Unfortunately, many remote rural areas still do not have water supply.

The Government often says that it is worthwhile to lay water mains and pave roads only when there is a certain population size, but this is indeed a chicken-and-egg problem. As long as good facilities are available, many residents are willing to move back to live in the rural areas. Just imagine, how can people live there without even water supply? I have succeeded only after spending so many years pushing for water supply, but its availability does not mean that the area is accessible by road. In this regard, I can also use Mui Tsz Lam Village as an illustrative example.

There is a river, and the bridge over it is the only access to the village, but that bridge is considered a piece of government land. During the laying of fresh water mains, as the Government has the privilege of using the bridge and government land, it can transport materials into the village for that purpose, but upon completion of the water mains works, the access road and the bridge will be immediately closed to the residents. The residents have spent years pushing for the road to be reopened because, firstly, when the village houses are dilapidated and need repair, it will be possible to transport materials into the village, but at present there is no access road; secondly, if the residents want to build houses, they also need to transport construction materials into the village, but at present there is no way to do so. The need to help in emergencies is also a reason because there are many hikers, who may need help from time to time, but at present only helicopters can be used to carry them out for help. There are also quite a number of elderly people living in the village, who need to be rescued in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4747 no time in the event of health problems, but ambulances cannot enter the village, so the ambulancemen may have to run up the hill with a stretcher to get them out.

For these reasons, a road into the village is indeed a necessity for the residents. Unfortunately, the Government has refused to open it. I do not understand what impact the provision of a road would have on the Government and on Hong Kong. This actually offers only benefits and no drawbacks, but the Government is so ossified and bureaucratic that it refuses to give in and provide the necessary road at that place for the residents. However, if a developer seeks to build multiple houses there, the Government may exercise discretion to grant permission to build a road. It is simply unwilling to provide convenience to the residents who would build single village houses. So, truly, are there any standards for the authorities to act on? The fact is that there are none, thus leaving the residents at their wits' end and making their life difficult.

Next, I would like to talk about the issue of sewage disposal. The Government has been working on it, but I have to tell the Secretary that the pace of work is really too slow. This will lead to the pollution of rivers, which is why many residents say that they used to find small fish and shrimps in the river in front of their house but now there is nothing. The Shing Mun River changes colour from time to time precisely because it takes too long to provide sewage disposal service, resulting in pollution of the river by sewage flowing directly from some villages into the river. I hope that the authorities will do better in this respect.

The motion has also mentioned the promotion of the development of "smart rural areas". I am certainly very supportive of it, as I have always been committed to promoting the development of a smart city. Now, however, a task has already fallen between two stools, and that is the laying of fibre-based cables. The Government has subsidized the laying of fibre-based cables in rural areas in the hope of helping villagers access the Internet, especially as society has entered the 5G era. However, after the laying of fibre-based cables, the households are still unable to access the Internet. During the pandemic, many students living in the rural areas still have to face the serious problem of disconnections. In fact, the "last mile problem" has not yet been solved. Although fibre-based cables have been laid up to the entrance of the village, the residents are still unable to have fibre connections to the Internet because there are only copper-based cables inside the houses. This is a very serious problem.

4748 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

As regards land use, many villagers take it for granted that "V" Zone land, which is housing land, should be allocated to them for building houses. However, even if "V" Zone land is available, they are still unable to use it, because the Government's planning is sometimes very weird indeed. Some "V" Zone sites in Sai Kung are completely surrounded by green belts and no facilities can be built on them, so the sites cannot be used at all. This is, in fact, extremely unreasonable. In addition, the applications for change of use of some agricultural sites have been likewise unsuccessful.

We hope for the development of home-stay lodging as well as leisure agriculture and fisheries in villages, but many policies and regulations formulated by the Government have made all these developments unfeasible. For this reason, we urge the Government to enact legislation on the management of home-stay lodging and draw up policies on leisure agriculture and fisheries, so that it can comprehensively develop the village zones while protecting the rural areas at the same time. Moreover, water, electricity, roads and the Internet access are necessities for the rural residents, and the Government has the responsibility to provide these facilities for use by rural residents and the general public. Therefore, I hope that the Government will formulate a comprehensive rural development policy to strike a balance between conservation and the rural residents' needs.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I would first of all like to thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy", so that we may have a thorough discussion of the subject here. I also thank Mr Kenneth LAU for inviting my comments on the issue when drafting his motion, and I have suggested that more emphases be placed on cultural heritage. I will give my support to Mr Kenneth LAU's motion and Mr Steven HO's amendment.

Deputy President, I have a deep affection for rural areas because I am living at and grew up in the countryside. Rural areas have always given people the impression of countryside, in which we can find villages, green pastures, old trees that reach into the skies and houses of primitive simplicity. Urbanites generally regard rural areas as places where they can tour around, and there is no special thought other than this. However, the Government started to look for potential sites in rural areas for developing new towns decades ago, first in Tsuen Wan, and then in Sha Tin, Tuen Mun and even Tin Shui Wai, Kwai Tsing, etc. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4749

Many buildings were erected in these areas, and many people have subsequently moved to live in such buildings, thus giving rise to many problems which have come thick and fast. Apart from traffic and employment problems, there are even conflicts between rural people and urbanites. These problems have in turn brought new challenges. If rural residents were asked to express their views, they would definitely object to this sort of excessive developments undertaken by the Government, because this has led to desolation of land and ecological destruction.

For example, when Tin Shui Wai was identified for development back then, fishponds with an area of more than 400 hectares were filled up to create land for housing construction. The British Hong Kong Government subsequently realized that with beautiful fishing villages turning into densely populated high-rise buildings, this has caused serious ecological destruction. It thus tried to make up for the loss in 1995 by formulating a so-called wetland conservation policy in Tin Shui Wai when the ecology of which has actually been destroyed. Under the policy, a Ramsar site (Wetland of International Importance) was designated to make up for the damage done. In order to set up the Mai Po Wetland Conservation Area, 1 500 hectares of fishponds were included and rendered completely inoperable, and they were not allowed to be used for fish farming. The fish reared there were food for birds. Partial subsidies were provided by the authorities to those affected through cooperation with agriculture fund, but the genuine meaning of living in rural areas has been totally ignored.

Hence, after listening to the speeches of several Members just now, I wish very much to echo the views of Mr CHAN Hak-kan on the inconsistencies observed in three major areas. I wish to tell the two Bureau Directors that the Government is expected to make improvements at three different levels, thereby helping to alleviate the plight we currently face in the New Territories. I will not be too specific, because no matter how specific my elaboration is, it will not be able to reflect the genuine problems, but I do hope the Government will address the situation at three levels.

Firstly, a reform should be introduced at the level of governance structure. Although the purview of the two Bureau Directors' Bureau covers all over Hong Kong, their actual understanding of issues in the New Territories cannot compare with that of Mr Kenneth LAU. I am therefore of the view that one more level of administration should be included in the governance structure by creating a new post of Director of New Territories Administration. The post of Secretary for the New Territories did exist previously in the 1980s, and why is such a post 4750 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 necessary? This can be attributed to a characteristic in rural areas, and as mentioned just now by a number of Members, there is no supply of fresh water in some rural places, but who cares?

An oral question was raised yesterday on fibre-based networks, and how come such networks are not available in some villages? The Secretary replied that the Government had already consulted the views of Heung Yee Kuk of the New Territories ("HYK"), and I wonder how he could have the nerve to say so. Would HYK find this situation acceptable? The answer is of course in the negative because all rural residents should enjoy such facilities, and why should some of them be deprived of the right? Something must have gone wrong within the Government, which does not really understand the needs of villagers in the New Territories and refuses to listen to the views of HYK.

Secondly, the Government should cooperate with HYK at the policy level to conduct for the New Territories a comprehensive policy review on five major aspects as proposed by Mr Kenneth LAU, and why should this be done? I have just cited the example of Tin Shui Wai to illustrate my points, and would now like to comment on the blunders made by the Government when taking forward its development plans in Kam Tin South and Wang Chau of . How come the compensation amount determined for land adjacent to a West Rail Station is lower than that determined for the land in Tai Tong of rural Yuen Long? Land sites in the two areas have been classified as Zone A and Zone B respectively, but to our surprise, land adjacent to a West Rail Station is classified as Zone B, and the compensation offered is not even enough for purchasing a new property. Rural residents will be rendered homeless when the Government decides to resume their land, but the compensation offered is not even enough for them to buy a home. This is the mindset adopted in the past by the British colonial administration, but the SAR Government should never follow suit.

Thirdly, in order to support policy implementation, I think the Government should pursue the proposal of Mr Kenneth LAU and set up a "rural development and construction fund" which covers nature conservation and cultural heritage. Only by doing so can it ensure that rural development will be made on a par with urban development, thus preventing the recurrence of conflicts between rural and urban areas. I hope the two Bureau Directors will deal with the matter from this perspective and help relieve the current plight of the people in the New Territories.

Thank you, Deputy President. I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4751

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): President, we are here today to discuss the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy" moved by Mr Kenneth LAU.

I think that the title of this motion may easily give people the wrong impression that it is the development of some remote areas or indigenous settlements in Hong Kong which is under discussion. In my opinion, it would be more accurate to amend it to "Formulating a comprehensive policy on urban and rural land administration and planning" as the issue in question is actually related to urban and rural land administration and planning.

According to our previous understanding, the concept of rural areas comprises three major areas: first, the soil and water conservation policies related to agriculture, which is the domain which Mr Steven HO has just discussed; second, the culture and customs of villages as mentioned by Mr CHAN Hak-kan just now; and third, the issue of "ding" rights policy, which usually―I must stress that it is usually the case―gives people a rather negative impression. Due to the time constraint, I will not talk about how to rationalize the medium and long-term "ding" rights policy today. As a matter of fact, it may not be something that I can deal with either.

As far as Hong Kong at the moment is concerned, the very meaning of the motion―well, the focus of our discussion now is actually not on how to facilitate the needs of the rural population or the rural areas but on the fact that what Hong Kong needs now is the countryside. Please listen carefully: local urban dwellers need the countryside now.

Why would I have said so? There is the historical factor behind this. As you may recall, was undergoing reform and in the process of opening up in 1979 right after going through the decade-long Cultural Revolution. Being on the other side of the river, Hong Kong was allowed the breathing space then. However, it seemed that Hong Kong, particularly after the 1967 riots, also had its own problems to deal with in those days. Generally speaking, Britain came up with the idea of letting the then Hong Kong Governor MACLEHOSE implement some local construction projects.

Those veteran mountain hikers would know that the planning for the construction of MacLehose Trail formally began in 1979. Why was MacLehose Trail built at that time? It was, in fact, not built for the purpose of hiking. It should be regarded as one of Hong Kong's modernization programmes―it is of 4752 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 course not yet completed, which is now criticized as a kind of regression, but I am not going to discuss this. Back in 1979, the most important function of MacLehose Trail was to introduce the rather apparent elements of rural lifestyle into the urban life of Hong Kong people.

Therefore, as I have just said at the beginning of my speech, the planning and construction of MacLehose Trail were for the purpose of formulating comprehensive urban and rural land administration and planning. For the term "land administration" in particular, it has something to do with planning governed by geopolitics (i.e. how to make use of planning with geographical considerations to achieve a political purpose or effect) and does not refer to land planning. Why did we need MacLehose Trail back then? Actually, it was simply because the young people had nothing to do in those days and mountain hiking seemed a viable option. I believe the Deputy President sees what I mean.

In my opinion, today's Hong Kong needs a more comprehensive urban and rural land administration and planning, and I am not referring to the future Greater Bay Area and Shenzhen―in particular New Territories North, that is, the Government wants to leave those unpleasant facilities at others' doorsteps―I am not referring to these matters. Hong Kong needs this because of two major realities: first, as we all know, we have already reached a dead end under the current political and social climate, and some even consider it an endgame; second, it is a more urgent problem in my view, that is, Hong Kong people are under immense mental stress due to various factors, in particular the pandemic fatigue. Or let me put it bluntly: a person living in Hong Kong without suffering from any form of mental illness is in fact abnormal. Take myself as an example, I think I am a bit abnormal because I consider myself quite sound mentally. The truth is, however, since we all live here, we should be well aware that Hong Kong is somewhere that causes mental illness in people, and only when people become mentally ill will we consider it normal.

Hence, I have said that we need the countryside just because during the period―the situation of the period between 2003 and 2004 was the same: in the three years following the outbreak of SARS in 2003, people became very fond of mountain hiking and getting in touch with nature. In other words, people found out that Hong Kong actually had the advantage of its own natural landscapes/seascapes as well as rural culture. And so, local eco-tourism became rather popular in 2003. Today, in 2021 (i.e. a decade later), we are experiencing once again a pandemic. Deputy President, please take a look at the number of visitors in Sai Kung and Lantau Island on Saturdays and Sundays, which is LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4753 indeed much larger than the number of people in Mong Kok. Even the grass on the grass slopes where cattle are grazed has been trampled down by visitors, leaving no grass for the cattle to eat. What has caused this to happen?

I do not expect the so-called comprehensive urban and rural land administration and planning policy to achieve any specific economic or social benefits, but it can, at least, give people some breathing space. However, having listened to the speeches delivered by Members just now, people would have known that the land prices of such places that offer us breathing space are even higher than those of urban areas. People may think that they can move to live in some relatively remote places―well, there is indeed hardly any remote places in Hong Kong―in order to get away from the hustle and bustle of the city. Actually, those who can afford to live on Lamma Island are considered bourgeois but some residents of Lamma Island may disagree to this―although I am not a representative of that place. Speaking from another perspective, it means that they do not have to work from 9:00 am to 11:00 pm every day if they can live on Lamma Island, right?

Therefore, with regard to today's motion, I think we can simply consider in several directions. First of all, in respect of specific measures, adjustments should be made to land administration, in particular land registration. Given the various constraints in the countryside, the authorities should start removing the constraints in a bid to make more space available so that more Hong Kong people can experience rural life. For example, there are many supporters of "glamping", which has become very popular recently, but the cost is higher than that of staying in hotels. As regards glamping, Deputy President, the cost per night is as much as $1,000, with just one cooker provided. Hong Kong people are really strange enough.

Second, we must be cautious about one thing in seeking rural development. In an interview with the Global Times a few days ago, said that Hong Kong had to resolve its housing problems. In fact, I am so worried that whenever rural development is under discussion, people tend to put it in opposition to the so-called urban development. The authorities must remember not to focus on the profitability of private properties, that is to say, they should not think about building houses only to make money in rural development. Or else, people may rather choose to live in Shenzhen.

I so submit.

4754 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, to begin with, I wish to thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving this motion on formulating a comprehensive rural development policy. It has offered this Council an opportunity for an in-depth discussion on the development of rural areas in Hong Kong.

What is meant by "rural area"? As far as I understand it, there is no legal definition of "rural area" in Hong Kong. Some may think that Hong Kong Island and the urban area of Kowloon cannot be regarded as rural areas. But mind you, some countryside regions and villages in Hong Kong Island are also without any comprehensive planning and development. In the case of the New Territories, new towns and new development areas probably cannot be regarded as rural areas. But country park areas and villages with indigenous inhabitants can probably be regarded as rural areas. Nevertheless, with Hong Kong's continuous development, and also the persistent expansion of its rail and road networks, some new development areas are located in close proximity to country parks and villages of indigenous inhabitants.

I have just spent some time discussing the meaning of "rural area", but I have no intention to challenge the proposal of the original motion to formulate a rural development policy. Instead, the point I am driving at is only that Hong Kong differs from the Mainland or other overseas places, in the sense that in our small city, the distinction between urban and rural areas in many places is not huge, and the distance between the two is not that long either. In my view, the existing discrepancy in the development of urban and rural areas in Hong Kong mainly stems from the difference in their land use planning and plot ratios for development.

At present, the maximum plot ratios for residential development in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and new towns in the New Territories are respectively 10, 7.5 and 4 to 5 in general. But in areas outside a new town, even if it is merely a street apart, the development density will often be reduced immediately to a plot ratio of 1 or just over 2. In many cases, the plot ratio merely stands at 0.4 or even 0.2. This has greatly reduced the significance and benefits of development.

In the case of Conservation Areas with a high ecological value, it is reasonable to impose development restrictions. But as I pointed out during the debate on the motion concerning the implementation of co-location arrangement for Huanggang Port yesterday, speaking of those green belts with a low conservation value, barren agricultural sites that are close to a development area LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4755 and no longer suitable for agricultural activities, and brownfields that have been developed either legally or illegally, a plot ratio of below 1 is obviously too low. It will lead to a massive waste of our precious land resources.

This is especially so when the existing land and housing problems in Hong Kong are so acute. Instead of creating land by flattening mountains and reclamation, an appropriate relaxation of the plot ratio for the development of the New Territories region can immediately release much development space that can be used for housing development or other development purposes. This is conducive to not only improving the living of residents in rural areas but also promoting urban construction, as well as economic and livelihood development, in Hong Kong as a whole. That way, residents in urban areas can likewise enjoy a larger, more spacious living space and a better living environment.

The Government often argues that the shortage of infrastructure facilities such as roads, fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems, has made it difficult to raise the plot ratio substantially for the development of rural areas. As rightly said by Mr Kenneth LAU just now, all this is the "chicken and egg" problem. During the early days of Hong Kong's inception, many places in Hong Kong Island and the urban area of Kowloon were not equipped with any road, water or electricity systems. Such systems were all built by people or the Government.

The original motion requests that the Government should proactively allocate resources to supply infrastructure facilities to remote villages, such as fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems, and also road, pier and 5G mobile network facilities. Some may question whether it is financially worthwhile to conduct the relevant works due to the small population in those areas. If this were the mindset of the Hong Kong Government at the time and the current Mainland Government, the Hong Kong, Shenzhen and China that we see today would not have existed.

In recent years, the Mainland authorities have striven to narrow the discrepancy in the development of urban and rural regions. On the one hand, they have consistently enhanced urbanization efforts as a means to accommodate more people and economic activities. On the other, they have vigorously promoted the development of rural areas, upgrading infrastructure facilities in rural areas, and even assisting residents of remote regions with home removal as a means to improve the living of people in rural villages and alleviate poverty through development. True, urban-rural discrepancy is not that serious in Hong 4756 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Kong, and Hong Kong does not have the problem of household registration as found in the Mainland; but then the relevant strategy and approach are still worthy of reference by the SAR Government.

In recent years, the Mainland has stressed that "lucid waters and lush mountains are invaluable assets", and it is necessary to curb the use of agrarian land for "non-agricultural" or "non-arable" uses. The request in Mr Steven HO's amendment for the Government's efforts in strengthening the management of natural river courses and drainage channels in rural areas; alleviating the impact of rural development on stakeholders; promoting a diversified range of economic activities in rural areas such as home-stay lodging, leisure agriculture and fisheries, and eco-tourism; conserving building clusters with rural character; and amending outdated legislation commands my strong support.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the original motion and the amendment.

MR LAU KWOK-FAN (in Cantonese): I rise to speak in support of Mr Kenneth LAU's motion and Mr Steven HO's amendment. All along, it looks like the Government lacks any long-term planning and holistic coordination for the various policies on promoting the multifaceted development of the New Territories. The 2020 Policy Address actually contains a Supplement where the Chief Executive says that the Government will develop a set of licensing requirements and procedural guidelines designed especially for guesthouses and catering businesses in countryside areas, so as to revitalize desolate villages and support eco-tourism. But at this moment, we still cannot see any macroscopic development.

Mr Kenneth LAU's motion today has precisely offered Members an opportunity to put their heads together, in the hope of urging the Government to expeditiously formulate a comprehensive rural development policy as a means to strike a balance between the development and conversation of rural areas. Mr Steven HO's amendment has added more details on the basis of Mr LAU's original motion. It has opened up more room for exploration, and its contents are richer and relatively comprehensive.

I was a member of the North District Council some time ago, and my family members are indigenous inhabitants, so I have been able to experience the rural culture ever since childhood. For this reason, I wish to divide my LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4757 discussion into two parts. The first part concerns facilities and infrastructure; and the second part pertains to the question of how to facilitate cultural inheritance and develop rural tourism.

The first part concerns infrastructure. As mentioned by Members, many villages have become more and more accessible with social development. But actually, many villages are still located in remote areas. We will not cherish any unrealistic hope for the construction of railway stations near villages or highways connecting to them. Our mere hope is to enable villagers to meet their basic needs, such as the construction of fresh water, electricity or even mobile network systems. This means that the supply of fresh water, electricity and mobile network systems must be adequate. Recently, some inhabitants from five villages in Tung Ping Chau told me about a shortage of power and water supply in their villages and also the poor receptivity of their local mobile networks, adding that since more people had gone on an outing to their island under the epidemic, they had to compete with visitors for the use of fresh water. It looks like problems with such basic infrastructure facilities have never been practically resolved over the years. Is it because our technology is not advanced enough to cover remote villages? Or, is it because we think that as the population of remote villages, such as those in Tung Ping Chau, is not large enough, it is not cost-effective to provide them with fresh water and electricity systems? Is this the reason why the Government lacks the incentive to improve the well-being of the small number of residents in those places? In view of all this, I hope various government departments can give consideration to the idea. I say so because even though the population of remote villages is not large, we should nonetheless provide for them, so that they can maintain their basic subsistence. I look forward to improvements in this respect.

Due to time constraint, I now move on to the second part, which concerns ways to promote the formulation of a system for guesthouses and catering businesses in countryside areas as mentioned by the Chief Executive. Actually, we have raised the idea many times at district-level meetings. Today, Secretary for Home Affairs Caspar TSUI is now present, and he has also followed up this matter. The original intention of the Government is to construct home-stay lodgings at Lai Chi Wo on a trial basis. Despite our strong support for this development mode at Lai Chi Wo, the progress seems to be a bit slow, and it looks like there is not an overall direction for the feasibility of extending this mode to other villages. May I ask the Secretary to tell us whether this mode can be implemented for other villages?

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Just now, Mr Tony TSE said that the discrepancy between the urban and rural areas of Hong Kong did not seem to be huge. At present, rural villages give us the feeling that they are purely a place to live, and ordinary people are unable to sense the beauty of rural villages and experience their natural lifestyle because they simply have no opportunity to experience all this. At present, there are not any home-stay lodgings in Hong Kong or sizeable farms as we can see on the Mainland. On weekends, Mainland people living in urban areas may have fun at farmhouses in rural villages and enjoy some farmhouse dishes. In the case of Hong Kong, there are no such activities at all. One reason is that the Government does not issue any farmhouse licences, and another reason is that the rearing of live chickens is forbidden now, so it is impossible to have fun at farmhouses. Therefore, the problem lies in the licensing system. We have always asked whether the Home Affairs Bureau or the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department is responsible for the licensing system, and which Policy Bureaux are tasked to lead the issuance of licences for home-stay lodgings and farmhouse restaurants. All these questions are very important, but it looks like they have remained unanswered so far. I hope the Government can address all such questions expeditiously.

Furthermore, I wish to bring up two points that may have been mentioned by those Members who have already spoken. Actually, many village residents are indigenous inhabitants with much contribution to Hong Kong, and some even sacrificed their lives. They love the country very much, and their contribution to Hong Kong, for example, during the War of Resistance against Japanese invasion was enormous. For example, many indigenous inhabitants in places such as the North District, Wu Kau Tang or Sai Kung sacrificed their lives for the country and Hong Kong back in those days. All this is historical culture that deserves conservation and inheritance. We have discussed with the Secretary an extension of our Heritage Trails for patriotic education. I hope that in his reply later on, the Secretary can respond to our proposals, including the expeditious connection of various villages of a historical value with the authorities' assistance to form a Heritage Trail for patriotic education. That way, we may pass down our rural culture, advocate patriotic education and commemorate our history.

Deputy President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4759

MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I would like to thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy" for the people of Hong Kong, as well as for us in this Council, to discuss today.

The total area of Hong Kong is about 1 100 sq km, of which about a quarter (i.e. 25%) is built-up land, including buildings and roads. The remaining three quarters are actually non-built-up or unbuilt-up areas, such as country parks, agricultural land and conservation areas. Arguably, Hong Kong is actually rich in rural resources.

In the past year, I believe, many Hong Kong people have chosen to go to some rural areas for relaxation and sightseeing as they are unable to travel outside Hong Kong under the impact of the pandemic. I believe that they now have a much better understanding and experience of the rural areas than before. The proposals in Mr Kenneth LAU's original motion and Mr Steven HO's amendment today include supplying fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems to remote villages; strengthening the management of natural river courses and drainage channels in rural areas; relaxing the frontier closed area restriction of Sha Tau Kok ("STK") Town and opening up the STK public pier to promote the development of leisure tourism, home-stay lodging and leisure agriculture and fisheries; making optimal use of innovative technology to progressively promote the development of "smart rural areas", including rolling out 5G mobile network systems and fibre-based networks; promoting rural infrastructure, cultural heritage, conservation, eco-tourism, etc. I believe that these proposals on rural infrastructure actually have the backing of many Hong Kong people, as they can improve the livelihood of the residents in the areas concerned and provide more comfort and convenience to other Hong Kong people on countryside trips, while at the same time helping Hong Kong develop green tourism and have more sightseeing spots to attract more visitors to Hong Kong. Therefore, the Liberal Party supports the original motion and the amendment.

Although, as announced in the Chief Executive's 2017 Policy Address, a Countryside Conservation Office has been established to coordinate conservation projects that promote sustainable development of remote countryside, and $1 billion was earmarked for such conservation effort and revitalization works, I believe there is still room for improvement as regards the work done so far by the Office, which has all along focused on conservation. More additional resources 4760 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 must be put into helping speed up the improvement of rural infrastructure. For example, regarding the roll-out of mobile networks, I believe that nowadays the network coverage in some remote fringe areas of the New Territories is actually still very poor, resulting in great inconvenience to the residents of those areas.

Regarding the supply of water and electricity, as some folks moved to the urban area to pursue career development or even emigrated overseas many years ago, some of the villages are deserted due to the decline in population and power supply may have been cut off. In recent years, these folks have returned to their villages. Hopefully, the Government will help them solve the problem of water and electricity supply as soon as possible.

I believe that the issue discussed just now is not a controversial one, because, at the end of the day, the disputes about rural areas have been related to land throughout so many years. Why are land-related issues so controversial? In Hong Kong, so many people cannot yet afford home ownership and everyone is finding land, but where is it? Apart from getting additional land from reclamation, I believe many people know that there is actually a lot of land in the New Territories. How can we make the best use of those parcels of land? I believe that many folks have started to conduct focused studies in recent years. For example, they have proposed the use of brownfield, deserted agricultural land, and so on. To my knowledge, Secretary Michael WONG has been working very hard to identify land over the past few years. I have also heard that actually the target has been met this year. I thank him for his effort, knowing that it was no easy feat as he had to negotiate with a lot of different people. I am sure that the Secretary for Home Affairs, Mr Caspar TSUI, who is sitting behind Secretary WONG, can assist him in building a network of contacts in the rural areas, especially by inviting Mr Kenneth LAU to help. Those land parcels are lying idle and deserted, with only a few bricks sitting there, and no one can use them. Why is there such a long delay? We might as well seek collaboration to make those land parcels available for use by the public of Hong Kong as soon as possible.

Dr Junius HO will speak after me. As in the last couple of weeks, and as Dr HO did, I said yesterday: "Secretary WONG, we are very concerned about the construction of district-level development projects. How can we identify land? If we have identified land, how should we develop buildings there?" Hong Kong has spent too long on the relevant matters in the past. We do not agree to continuing with the past approach or tradition. Neither can I get my head LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4761 around a question, that is, even if we are not in a hurry to consult all stakeholders, we should do it quickly, right? So, what should be done going forward? I believe that the authorities really need to seriously devise a system to streamline the procedure adopted in the past for identification of land and construction of buildings. This must be done; otherwise, it is impossible for Hong Kong to catch up with other regions, much less to compete with them―to compete is already out of the question.

As regards rural land, I have repeatedly pointed out that the rural areas are vast and resource-rich, and most of the existing buildings are three storeys high. If the road infrastructure in the rural areas is improved and those 3-storey buildings are converted into 30-storey buildings, the floor area can be increased tenfold and the population can also increase by 10 times. This is analogous to The Center in Central. How much space was there in Central? The Center is tens of storeys high, providing a gross floor area equivalent to the site area multiplied itself by 60 times. The same applies to rural areas; otherwise, how can they accommodate so many people and make so much development a reality? In sum, as far as the future development of rural areas is concerned, properly solving the traffic problem and building upwards is one of the important ways to help solve the housing problem of Hong Kong. Therefore, I urge the Secretary to put on his thinking cap.

We support today's original motion and amendment. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Mr Kenneth LAU's original motion and Mr Steven HO's amendment.

First of all, I thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving this motion today. Regarding the rural development policy, those who have ever dealt with New Territories affairs know that it is easy to propose the provision of such infrastructural facilities as water supply and roads as mentioned in the original motion, but we can see from past experience that the Government often fails to catch up with the pace in addressing the issues.

What do I mean by "failing to catch up with the pace"? Take, for example, some situations on Lantau Island that we have seen in the Islands District Council. The preparation work for a road project remains pending even 4762 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 though several years have been spent on it. And as for the lack of water supply in some remote villages, the District Council is unable to resolve the problem even after several years of trials and tribulations. This is why Mr Kenneth LAU has specifically mentioned in his original motion today that it is necessary to effectively work on infrastructure support for remote rural areas. The Government must listen to this voice and put the words into action.

In the past, when the Government dealt with the problems of remote areas, it would often put forward the proposition that "if there is not enough population, we cannot justify the additional provision of certain infrastructural facilities". The Government's established mindset is that it will not provide various infrastructural facilities, such as transport, until there is enough population. However, from the perspective of some remote areas, I consider it unfair to base the calculation on population alone, because the residents of these areas also have their daily needs. Just imagine, why should they be deprived of the right to use infrastructural facilities? If we think about it the other way round, we will find it unfair.

Therefore, in my view, when the Government deals with rural issues, it should not make arrangements solely based on population size. Instead, it should make judgments based on the local conditions and actual situation, and refrain from sticking to the same old recipe.

Many, many years ago, the post of Secretary for the New Territories was established, as also pointed out in Mr LEUNG Che-cheung's speech, which I have noticed. I believe that the original intention of creating the post of Secretary for New Territories back then was to have a person responsible for coordinating all the New Territories affairs. He had to have a comprehensive grasp and understanding of New Territories affairs, as well as an in-depth knowledge of the conflicts between urban and rural developments and the ways to settle them. Such coordination was embodied by this Secretary for the New Territories. Does the Government still have such a mindset in dealing with New Territories issues, or will it leave them to different departments in the lack of a more effective coordination, just like dealing with urban issues? This is the other question that I would like to raise today.

As regards our rural conservation or development, certainly I consider it necessary to strike a balance. However, Deputy President, here I would like to express my views to the two Secretaries. We now see that there are many LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4763 remote rural areas, and I have also visited those places in person. The living conditions of the residents in some very remote areas are miserable, especially after severe typhoons or rainstorms. If you visit these villages in person, what you will see is basically an unbearable eyesore.

Therefore, I suggest that the Government should conduct an effective stocktaking exercise in the future. What do I mean by a stocktaking exercise? Of course, some rural areas need to be dealt with from the perspective of conservation, which we all understand, but for some inhabited remote rural areas, the authorities should assess whether the living conditions are appropriate. If the situation is so appalling that it is already a pathetic sight to see, I consider that the Government should take some appropriate actions. It should not only simply improve the infrastructural facilities in those areas, but should even be determined to thoroughly resolve the problems. If the living conditions of the residents in remote areas are too bad, will the authorities formulate some policies to give these residents an opportunity to move into public housing units by putting them on the public housing waiting list? Or conversely, if conditions permit, can public housing be built there so that these residents can get into public housing and have a decent living environment?

I hold that the Government needs to make some efforts on this issue because, in fact, if the Government is determined to conduct a stocktaking exercise, it will certainly come to the realization that the living conditions of the residents in some remote areas are very bad. If the Government is determined to do a good job in this respect, I think it will be helpful to the residents of these remote rural areas, who may not be able to apply for public housing for various reasons. So, Deputy President, please allow me to digress for a moment. Now that the Government has finally resolved to set up transitional housing, I think this is a very good initiative to divert the demands of this cohort of people.

Nevertheless, I wish to point out here that the Government must have the determination to conduct a stocktaking exercise on some remote areas in the New Territories, namely the villages that would be left in miserable condition in the wake of typhoons and rainstorms as I mentioned just now―I have visited these places in person―and resolve to settle this problem, so as to improve the living environment of the residents in those areas. I consider this as an important future task for the SAR Government.

Deputy President, I so submit.

4764 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the title of our motion today is "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy". The original motion is proposed by Mr Kenneth LAU while the amendment is proposed by Mr Steven HO. Their contents actually point out that the Government lacks a long-term and comprehensive rural development policy in the process of developing the New Territories. This is a point which I completely agree with. In my view, not only is it necessary for Hong Kong to capitalize on its unique advantage under "one country, two systems" in the future, but it is also a must that Hong Kong should integrate into the overall development of the country and connect with the world.

Being two adjacent cities, Hong Kong and Shenzhen have a particularly close relationship with each other―what I mean is, of course, areas in the northeast of Hong Kong and the Shenzhen municipality―and it has been proposed in Hong Kong's development strategy, i.e. "Hong Kong 2030+: Towards a Planning Vision and Strategy Transcending 2030" ("Hong Kong 2030+"), that a "northern economic belt" should be developed in the boundary areas. The economic belt extends from Lok Ma Chau in the west to Liantang/Heung Yuen Wai, covering seven existing boundary crossings, while the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park ("HSITP") in the Lok Ma Chau Loop, as well as the strategic growth area, i.e. the New Territories North, proposed in Hong Kong 2030+ also fall on this development axis. In light of this, I have thought about the reason why Mr Kenneth LAU has proposed this motion about formulating a comprehensive rural development policy today. To me, not only should we discuss about the formulation of the "software" as proposed in this motion … All the proposals currently made by Mr Kenneth LAU are about the formulation of "software", but what the Government has precisely failed to do at present is the formulation of "hardware", i.e. an absence of a comprehensive policy on the overall development of the areas in the northeast and the land in the New Territories. This is why some places mentioned by Mr Kenneth LAU are still without fresh water, electricity, and Internet coverage, and the development of "smart rural areas" has gone nowhere. I think the Government's failure to formulate a specific policy for the development of the land in the New Territories is the very reason we are still discussing such issues as why some rural areas have no fresh water and electricity supply, and the typhoon aftermath is left unhandled, in 2021.

Regarding the discussion on rural development, I am going to concentrate my speech on issues concerning the areas spanning from the northeast to the north New Territories. In fact, the focus of the relevant development policies LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4765 should not be placed on the land in the New Territories alone, but also the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("the Greater Bay Area"). Under the development blueprint for the Greater Bay Area … Yesterday, we had a discussion about how the redevelopment project of the Huanggang Port should tie in with the development of HSITP. As we all know, the Huanggang Port will be the most important and the major land boundary crossing for passenger traffic between Shenzhen and Hong Kong―this is understandable to me―because the Loop is in the vicinity of Lok Ma Chau/Huanggang Control Point. While the Loop will be helpful to the development of our innovation and technology industry and logistics network, I have pointed out to the Secretary in various committee meetings that its present development is quite narrow in scope and is not comprehensive enough.

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

So, what should we do to make the development of the entire area of the Loop comprehensive and compatible with the development strategy of the Greater Bay Area as well as the development of Shenzhen? Previously, in the meetings of the Finance Committee and the Panel on Security, I asked the Government why it did not combine the Loop with the whole North District, including Sha Tau Kok, for comprehensive metropolitan planning. For example, from the perspective of tourism development, some shopping malls can be built. If the Government can incorporate various infrastructures and ancillary facilities in the planning of the Loop, young people who go to the Loop for career development in the future will not feel like being "trailblazers", and we can expect to see more young people being attracted to the Loop to develop their careers. In this way, the North District will turn into a place to live, to work and to have fun.

Now, let me respond to Mr Kenneth LAU's motion. The fourth proposal put forward in his motion is: "setting up a 'rural development and construction fund' comprising five parts, namely 'infrastructure development', 'cultural heritage', 'rural tourism', 'nature conservation and land development' and 'emergency support'". I can see that Mr Kenneth LAU focuses on three main points, namely "infrastructure", "cultural heritage", and "rural tourism", and these are related to one of the key points in Mr Steven HO's amendment: "promoting the development of home-stay lodging, leisure agriculture and fisheries". In his amendment, he added the following to the second proposal of the original motion: 4766 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

"studying the feasibility of allowing recreational fishing in the marine fish culture zone in S[ha] T[au] K[ok] and listening to public views on the study", and "promoting leisure tourism and leisure agriculture and fisheries, thereby revitalizing these districts, diversifying their economic development and improving the local economy and employment situation". This shows that rural development concerns not only issues about people's livelihood, but also issues about economic development.

President, in the past, while different places around the world racked their brains and put in a lot of effort for the development of rural villages, Hong Kong lacked a down-to-earth development blueprint for handling the issue of remote rural areas. Even though the Government has set up the Countryside Conservation Office and earmarked $1 billion for conservation, the relevant measures are confined to the revitalization of places such as Lai Chi Wo and Sha Lo Tung which have high ecological value. For the remote villages which have neither fresh water and electricity supply, nor any basic facilities like roads for a long time, the Government has still failed to address the problems concerned.

I strongly concur with the proposal made by Mr LAU about developing the areas around Sha Tau Kok, including such places as Sha Tau Kok Town, Lai Chi Wo, Kat O and Ap Chau, into an eco-tourism circle in the northeast. This is just another key measure for developing rural tourism. I think the Government should now consider and examine opening up the Sha Tau Kok Closed Area for development, and develop Ta Kwu Ling, the Lok Ma Chau Loop, Deep Bay, etc. It is even necessary to formulate a well thought out policy on villages in the New Territories to make optimal use of the land of remote villages and their surrounding areas, develop infrastructures and transport, and allow the construction of multi-storey "small house buildings".

President, land issues have long been plaguing Hong Kong. In the next three decades, Hong Kong will need up to 4 800 hectares of land to implement the planned development projects. For this reason, I am in support of the construction of multi-storey "small house buildings", and I hope that the Government can conduct more studies in this regard. The Greater Bay Area is a key development strategy of our country. I hope that when the Government works on improving the rural areas, it will also promote the culture of the New Territories (The buzzer sounded) …

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4767

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, please stop speaking.

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, I so submit.

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, I support the original motion: "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy", and its amendment. Both of them have expressed the hope of boosting the rural economy through the development of tourism which, actually, is quite a desirable point for starting our discussion. I myself have also made similar proposals in recent years. I have proposed that ancillary facilities should be properly put in place, and more local tourism resources should be developed, so as to stimulate the economy of the relevant districts and divert the pressure on the traditionally popular tourist areas.

Upon the COVID-19 outbreak, the tourism industry worldwide has been confronted with serious challenges, and Hong Kong tourism industry has inevitably been hard hit. Even if cross-border/boundary travel can resume, there will definitely be numerous restrictions, and outbound travel will be subject to various uncertainties. For this reason, different types of local tours and rural tours will still be in keen demand.

Over the past year, the Government has approved resumption of local tours twice and launched the "Free Tour" programme once, all of which have been welcomed by the public. With more people having joined the local tours and got familiar with the itineraries, special rural attractions will attract more attention and interest from people. In fact, the success of a number of Hong Kong tourist attractions, say the outlying islands, the beaches, the scenic spots and historic monuments in the New Territories, was initially driven by local demand. On the other hand, with the gradual implementation of the duty-free policy in the Mainland, Hong Kong's appeal will be fading if shopping remains our main selling point. Tourists, especially those who have visited Hong Kong, are more inclined to find some in-depth local tours with unique characteristics, such as visiting attractions in the rural areas. In the future, more overseas tourists will adjust the purpose of their visits to Hong Kong in response to our publicity efforts, the improvement in our supporting facilities in the rural areas, and the enhanced popularity of our rural attractions. I hope that the Government can address the problem of insufficient rural tourism supporting facilities.

4768 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Picturesque natural landscape and historic monuments aside, Hong Kong's rural areas also have the New Territories culture, traditional customs, and intangible cultural heritage ("ICH") to offer, but these have simply been overlooked by tourists. As what the public and tourists look for from attractions has changed, I hope that the Government can further enrich the tourism resources in Hong Kong according to the actual condition of the rural attractions and ICH.

The 2017 Policy Address announced the establishment of the Countryside Conservation Office ("CCO") to take charge of the coordination and promotion of sustainable development of remote countryside, the conservation of the local ecological, architectural and cultural resources, and the promotion of eco-tourism. CCO has selected Lai Chi Wo and Sha Lo Tung in Tai O as pilot sites, and carried out some improvement works, including restoration of trails and river walls, construction of public toilets, treatment of sewage, slope improvement works, and increasing transport facilities. All these have produced quite remarkable results. I hope CCO will sum up the experience gained from the projects of these two pilot sites, and replicated the development model in other rural villages with the suitable conditions, so as to improve their environments while coping with the development of tourism.

I think that a few points drawn from the aforementioned experience warrant the attention of the Administration. Firstly, it is necessary to provide the relevant supporting facilities, including public transport, piers, toilets, and signage. If there are insufficient supporting facilities, this will directly affect tourists' interest in visiting those places and may even cause nuisance to the local residents. Just take Tai O as an example. Hordes of tourists will flock there during holidays. Even though the bus and ferry companies have increased the frequency of buses and ferries to ease the flow of passengers, passengers still need to wait for a long time before they can go aboard. The massive influx of visitors has also affected the daily lives of the local residents, causing them to complain about it. Therefore, in the absence of proper supporting facilities, even if an attraction is popular and able to help the local economy, it can still bring about adverse effects and hinder the development of tourism.

Secondly, it is necessary to make a summary of ICH in the rural areas and develop tours with unique characteristics. There are a number of ICH in Hong Kong. At present, the ICH inventory of Hong Kong contains 480 items, among which 20 items of high cultural value and with urgent need for preservation have been included in the Representative List of ICH of Hong Kong. Despite so, not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4769 many of the items can become celebrated branded tourism events of Hong Kong, with only Cheung Chau Jiao Festival, the Tai Hang Fire Dragon Dance, Yu Lan Festival, and the International Dragon Boat Races being able to make their way to overseas promotion. Actually, Hong Kong also has many ICH items which come from the rural areas, and many of our traditional craftsmanship and rituals can be experienced first-hand by members of the public and tourists through workshops like having basin feast, making salted fish and dried shrimps, participating in the lantern lighting ceremony, the spring ancestral worship of clans, etc. The ICH inventory was announced in 2014, and $300 million was set aside in the 2018-2019 Budget by the Government to strengthen the protection, promotion and transmission of ICH. But seldom have we seen tourism being used as a means to promote items in the ICH inventory of Hong Kong. I hope that while formulating a comprehensive rural development strategy, the relevant departments will conserve, pass on, and promote Hong Kong's ICH through different ways in addition to making effective use of the hardware resources, so as to allow members of the public and tourists to have an understanding of the unique historical memory and culture of Hong Kong, thereby enabling the traditional rural culture of Hong Kong to be passed down through generations.

As a final note, I concur with the proposal to relax the frontier closed area restriction of Sha Tau Kok Town, and open up the Sha Tau Kok public pier to facilitate public access to Sha Tau Kok and peripheral islands such as Kat O and Ap Chau. The authorities have all along been concerned about the security issue and refused to open up Sha Tau Kok, thus leaving the aforementioned valuable tourism resources derelict. With considerable improvement in the standard of living in the Mainland, boundary security should not be a concern. It is my hope that the relevant authorities can review these outdated policies once again.

President, I so submit.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving the motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy". The several issues he has raised are important and completely justified. Besides, I am also thankful to Mr Steven HO for proposing his amendment.

Members are concerned about this region called the New Territories. The New Territories was an extension area under the Convention Between Great Britain and China Respecting an Extension of Hong Kong Territory in 1898. It 4770 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 is marked by a colonial aura, and it is also an example in history showing the attempt of the British Empire to expand its territorial map and interests at the time. Following the return of Hong Kong's sovereignty to China in 1997, the New Territories has become a name that has gone down in history.

Owing to historical reasons, the area around Sha Tau Kok has been designated as a frontier area. At the time, many people tried to enter Hong Kong illegally through this place out of financial reasons. Some Members talked about the authorities' approach of avoiding development in the frontier area just now. Secretary for Development Michael WONG was once stationed in the frontier area to combat illegal boundary crossers. Well, they have now become a problem of the past. While we still perceive the New Territories as a barren region after 1997, Chief Executive of the previous-term administration LEUNG Chun-ying nonetheless wished to change this mentality and release the 2 000 hectares of land in the frontier area. I think this is a desirable move.

One day, when I was at a hotel called The St. Regis Shenzhen―I do not know if I was at the 106th or 107th floor at the time―I looked at Hong Kong from a distance, and then I looked back at a central business district ("CBD") in Shenzhen. As far as I could see, everywhere across the boundary was deserted. From the perspective of environmental conservation, I must say the authorities have done a good job because the mountains, rivers and fish ponds are well persevered. But all this does not go very well with the development of commerce, innovation and technology, or a modern smart city, let alone the development of "smart rural areas". But from the angle of conservation, I must say the authorities have done a good job.

What are we supposed to do then? Mr Kenneth LAU raises four points today, and the first point is the proactive allocation of resources to supply fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems. I think this is a basic expectation, and the request for improving public pier facilities in the transportation respect likewise cannot be said to be demanding. Actually, even without the proposal of this motion in the legislature, the Government should have proceeded with the relevant work on its own initiative. The Government should be ashamed to see this Member's motion.

The second point is to actively consider relaxing the frontier closed area restriction of Sha Tau Kok. Hong Kong has been returned to the Motherland, and the setting up of a boundary is due to historical reasons in the past. But LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4771 then, this place has actually become very valuable today. Can it be developed into a CBD? An adjoining site may cost as much as $300,000 or even $400,000 per square metre. But if the Hong Kong Government wants to resume a nearby agricultural site, the price may have to depend on the resumption rate―it is $1,300 now―and its classification of the site concerned as a Class A, B, C or D site in its judgment before offering compensation to farmers. But then, is this reasonable to them? Why do the authorities refuse to undertake proper development there?

The third point is to make optimal use of high and new technology to promote the development of "smart rural areas". Actually, the development of "smart rural areas" will not require the laying of cables or optical fibre cables. I say so because everything is possible as long as Wi-Fi is available. On the Mainland, some agricultural households in backward regions have never come across any telephone cables or handsets, and they already use wireless Wi-Fi telephones right from the very beginning. Why is it impossible for Hong Kong to follow suit?

The fourth point is to set up a "rural development and construction fund" comprising five parts, namely "infrastructure development", "cultural heritage", "rural tourism", "nature conservation and land development" and "emergency support". This is completely correct. I think that even if Mr LAU does not propose a motion today, the Government should have proceeded with all such work long ago. Mr LAU should have instead talked about the lawful traditional rights and interests of the indigenous inhabitants of the New Territories under Article 40 of the Basic Law. The concessionary right of indigenous inhabitants has come under constant challenge lately. While certain issues have remained to be resolved, some people engaging in small house development have been arrested like criminals. Actually, this right and interest is part of the constitutional right under the Basic Law. But they have been regarded as criminals owing to this right. Shouldn't the Government right the wrong?

On the issue concerning funeral and interment, how should the authorities deal with it properly? Many issues involved need to be straightened out. Shouldn't the authorities attend to people's urgent needs on a priority basis? I am not saying that there is no urgency in this respect, but I think the Government should have addressed it long ago.

President, here comes the end of my speech today. In fact, I strongly support the formulation of a rural development policy, and the Government 4772 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 should give holistic consideration to promoting tourism, using peripheral areas of country parks and developing home-stay lodgings. This policy must cover all aspects, so that Hong Kong can move forward as a whole. Members should stop perceiving the New Territories as a backward region and regarding the frontier area as a barren area. If Members view the whole area in the context of the National 14th Five-Year Development Plan, they will realize that it will become a new innovation and technology area that deserves proper care and planning from the Government. The Government should also discuss with the Town Planning Board, so that the process of turning "potential sites" into "disposable sites" need not take 15 years to complete. How many 15 years does one have in life?

President, I so submit.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, Hong Kong is an extremely tiny place, but more than 70% of its land has been left undeveloped. The current population of 7 million is occupying only 7% of our land, while almost half of the land in Hong Kong is rural areas. Therefore, it is indeed very meaningful for Mr Kenneth LAU to propose a motion for a discussion on rural development today. We should not only care about the lives of rural residents but also examine how we can make good use of the land in the entire Hong Kong, so as to achieve balanced and diversified development.

There is no lack of land in Hong Kong, but we fail to make full use of the land available. When people have to live in subdivided units or pay exorbitant prices for a home, and the pace of urban development is affected by a shortage of land, the Government should change its mindset. Instead of relying solely on its "harsh measures" to curb demand, the Government should make optimum use of land in the New Territories proactively. As urban areas are already densely populated, it should expeditiously make good use of land in the New Territories, so as to facilitate more balanced social development, which will in turn bring greater benefits to Hong Kong.

President, the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area is a national strategy, and in order to maximize the development value of the entire region, efforts should be made to remove barriers and the more convenient the better. Although the restriction of the frontier closed area adjoining Shenzhen has been gradually relaxed in recent years, a lot of land sites in the area still remain idle, and the Government should consider how to make good use of them. Given that all clearance procedures will be conducted in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4773

Shenzhen in the future, lands currently used for accommodating the Lok Ma Chau Control Point, its clearance areas and parking lot can all be used for future development. As supporting facilities and connecting roads are already available, the development based on such a solid foundation should produce results very soon.

In order to develop into an international centre for innovation and technology, the Government will invest tens of billions of dollars for the development of the Lok Ma Chau Loop ("the Loop"). While there are skyscrapers everywhere in the prosperous city of Shenzhen on the opposite bank, all we can see on this side in Hong Kong are just vast and boundless paddy fields. The authorities are planning to engage in high-tech development in the Loop which lies in the middle, but the surrounding environment is totally incompatible with the planned development when this place, to put it more nicely, of beautiful rural scenery is, frankly speaking, just a large piece of wild and barren land.

The place used to be part of the frontier closed area, and it is difficult to access for both local residents and outsiders. However, as long as the Government is willing to map out a complete planning for the lands in Lok Ma Chau Station and Control Point as well as the surrounding land of the Loop, earth-shaking changes may take place in the entire area. The Secretary also indicated yesterday that there was intention to develop the area into a regional hub, and I consider this direction worth supporting. I hope the Government will expeditiously and properly take forward the relevant work, otherwise there will be a delay of 10 years and yet another 10 years, and how many years can we afford to waste during our lifetime? The Government should handle the matter with determination and make a decision at once after discussion, and instead of providing infrastructure facilities only after the area has been occupied, a strategy of forward-looking planning should be adopted. It would be better to arrange for occupation by residents when all facilities are in place, rather than forcing them to be pioneers and move into an area with no supporting facility at all.

As for the development in North East New Territories which we have been discussing for years, the current pace is still too slow. Since the Government dares not go beyond the established scope of the development plan, planning is only made within that scope with utterly no regard for the external circumstances. It should be noted that the restrictions on the whole stretch of land from the Loop, Ta Kwu Ling to the Heung Yuen Wai Boundary Control Point have already been relaxed. Moreover, the whole area has not been incorporated into country parks, only part of it has been zoned as green belt and used for residential purpose. If a 4774 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 good planning can be made by the Government in consultation with villagers for development plan, which will bring greater convenience to their daily lives, I am sure many of them will be willing to participate in the plan. The place does possess high development potential as it covers an extensive area, has a relatively flat terrain and lies adjacent to Shenzhen.

President, there is indeed beautiful scenery everywhere in Hong Kong, and in the past year, many people have become very fond of hiking. However, as I have mentioned in a question previously raised at a Council meeting, accidents occurred frequently among hikers, the littering problem in country parks and hiking trails has deteriorated, and with the environment partly damaged, visitors are exposed to higher risks. Besides, nuisance has also been caused to rural residents, and their daily lives have been greatly affected. Developing rural areas can in fact provide us with an opportunity to improve the surrounding facilities, so that hikers may enjoy the pleasure brought about by outdoor activities safely without causing nuisance to the lives of villagers, who may even benefit from the economic activities of leisure tourism.

President, owing to its long standing land-related problem, Hong Kong is facing a lot of limitations as far as development is concerned. High density development in urban areas alone will not be enough to make this international city of ours to move to a higher level. We can only find a way out by broadening our vision, and taking a comprehensive view of the situation in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon, the New Territories and even the Greater Bay Area in our planning. I hope the Government will consolidate the points raised in our discussion and the views expressed by Members today, and move forward at full speed. Hong Kong is such a special place where every district has its own distinctive features, and I hope that our rural development will bring some pleasant surprise to the public a few years later.

President, I so submit.

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): President, I would first of all like to thank Mr Kenneth LAU for moving this motion and giving us an opportunity to discuss rural development. I have very deep feelings about the issue of rural development, because the person who introduced me into the world of community service during my school days is a former official responsible for handling rural affairs in the former District Office and the former New Territories Administration. He has already retired and passed away but given his LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4775 familiarity with rural affairs, I have also developed a deep understanding of rural development through frequently chatting with him back then when I was a student.

In fact, many existing new towns like Sha Tin, Tsing Yi and Tin Shui Wai have been evolved from rural villages, but the question is: How come the development process could be so smooth in the past? Take Tsing Yi with which I am more familiar as an example. Several local villages there had gone through such processes as land resumption, relocation, construction and reclamation before the area had become what it is like today. Some former villagers can still recall that lychee trees or fish farming activities could be found in the past at a particular site where housing construction is underway today. Yet, it can be said that the development process back in those years was very smooth, and even Tin Shui Wai could be developed very smoothly into a new town. Why is that so? According to my mentor of community service whom I mentioned above, it was due to the fact that they had made a lot of efforts in communicating and negotiating with rural residents.

I think what is lacking now within the SAR Government is a coordinating department. While the Development Bureau is responsible for land resumption, officers from District Offices are usually the ones who maintain daily contact with rural residents, and a coordinating department in charge of rural development is unavailable. As a result, when discussing issues relating to housing development in the New Territories, we very often have to invite representatives from quite a number of government departments to attend and finish the relevant discussion, because no officer from any single department can help to coordinate the work in this respect within the Government afterwards. I find this really regretful or disappointing because things could be done very smoothly in the past. It is a hard fact that the Government had a greater flexibility in handling such matters in the past, and the compensation package drawn up previously also allowed more flexibility and was different. The current Government is definitely inferior to its predecessor in this respect. This is also the reason why whenever housing development is carried out, lengthy discussions have to be held to settle issues concerning land resumption and compensation, and this has also posed the greatest difficulty.

However, I would like to ask the Secretary to come to think about the following issue: Although a review was conducted a few years ago on the arrangements for land resumption and compensation, the problem has remained 4776 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 unresolved and similar disputes still arose when several new development projects were taken forward subsequently. It may thus be true that a fundamental problem does exist and that is: How can the Government preserve the integrity of rural villages during the process of land resumption and compensation? The Government cannot simply let these villages disappear once the necessary procedures have been completed for land resumption and compensation, and the compensation payment has been shared among the villagers affected. How can the integrity of rural villages be guaranteed? It is exactly because the integrity of rural villages could be preserved through relocation that the Government was able to carry out development smoothly in Tsing Yi back then.

Certainly, there may not be sufficient land available now for relocation of rural villages, but consideration should be given by the Government to the issue of how the development plans can reflect the fact that the integrity of the rural villages concerned can still be preserved after compensation has been made and the development has been completed. It may not be easy to adopt the same practices as before to deal with the matter now, but are there new options that can keep pace with the times, so that villagers or rural residents will consider themselves stakeholders too in the relevant development plan? A failure to handle the matter properly will only lead to endless disputes. As we can see, this is exactly what has happened over the past 10 years, when proposed development plans have always aroused much discontent among local residents affected, while some others have accused them of obstructing the development, thus giving rise to a lot of frictions. I consider this a problem that we must face squarely.

In addition, the epidemic outbreak last year has also highlighted the lack of coordination on the part of the Government, and this has already created conflicts between rural residents and urbanites. For example, as many people want to go to the countryside more frequently under the epidemic, Tai O has become a tourist hotspot. However, its bus stops were always crowded with people during public holidays, and visitors often had to wait for a long time. The same thing also happened in Tai Tong, and these are examples to illustrate how the government policy has created unnecessary conflicts.

Cultural heritage is also a point at issue, and Mr Kenneth LAU has also included this point in his motion. We often advocate the need to build cultural self-confidence, but how can we do so if we do not even know anything about the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4777 culture of the place we live? How can we promote cultural heritage? There are many traditional festivals in rural villages, such as the Birthday of Tin Hau, the Da Jiu Festival, etc., and there are also traditional cultural activities like dragon-boat racing, dragon dancing, lion dancing, the making of steamed glutinous rice cake, etc., but have we made good use of them? Promotional efforts from the Home Affairs Bureau may be needed to enhance Hong Kong people's understanding of local culture, but has the Government done a good job in promoting cultural heritage?

I also strongly support the proposal put forward in Mr Kenneth LAU's motion to allocate resources to remote villages. There is still no supply of fresh water in many of these rural areas, such as Po Toi Island whose lack of both fresh water and electricity supply has been the subject of concern to us for many years. The Government has been embarking on different kinds of development in rural areas, even in places near outlying islands, but I think there is a genuine need to take these development opportunities to solve the livelihood problems faced by rural residents, so that they will feel that they are also stakeholders of the development in society. Moreover, this will also help to reduce social conflicts and make things easier for the Government in developing rural land. I hope the Government will, as suggested by Mr Kenneth LAU, consider establishing a comprehensive development concept. Thank you, President.

MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): President, today I speak in support of the original motion on "Formulating a comprehensive rural development policy" and the amendment.

President, Hong Kong is a metropolitan, but 600 villages are also scattered all over the New Territories and outlying islands. As the time of development of these villages varied, we therefore need a comprehensive set of policies to address and help rural development, so that rural residents can live peacefully and work happily.

I have been serving the New Territories West for some time, thus I deeply understand the inconvenience and hassle endured by rural residents due to inadequate supporting facilities of various kinds. Let me cite the silting up of watercourses as an example. We can see the message disseminated by the Government's Announcement of Public Interest that Summer always brings rain. A rainy day to people living in the city is as simple as bringing along with them 4778 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 an umbrella when they leave home and that's all. But to rural residents, it may mean that they will lose their homes in a torrential rain. Why? In fact, there are many natural rivers or drainage channels in rural areas to drain stormwater. However, in case they are not maintained well, they will be silted up and the water level will rise. Eventually, in case of flash flood, these drainage channels will not be able to drain the rainwater, which will endanger the lives of villagers. There are of course small shrimps, crabs and fish using these drainage channels as their habitat. However, if villagers are to solve the silting-up problem of drainage channels, they will be criticized for damaging the ecological environment and destroying the drainage channels which serve as the habitat of these small creatures.

Biodiversity is certainly important, but villagers will argue that these drainage channels should play the role to drain the rainwater after torrential rain, otherwise the riverbed will silt up over time and they can no longer drain the rainwater. Besides, the chance of flooding will increase. However, it is unfortunate that I have dealt with such issues in the past. I wish that the Secretary will look at this photo. This is a river along a village on Lantau Island. In the past, it was a habitat for fish and shrimps. But as it has been silted up by soil and sediment, its embankment collapsed after flash flood caused by heavy rain; and the water flow in the river had become stagnant and backwater accumulated. It became the breeding ground for mosquitos. That is the reason why this pool of stagnant water turned black after it was silted up. Recently, the village representative said that the problem could be resolved by using a dredging machine to dredge the silt and drain the riverbed. To our surprise, the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") did not approve the use of a dredging machine. I visited the site with the EPD officials. They eventually said no. They said only hand tools were allowed. Can Members imagine how we can use hand tools to dredge such a long drainage channel nowadays? Can it be said that they are asking the villagers to mimic the man in an ancient Chinese fable who moved a mountain with a shovel? What the villagers face is life-threatening situation.

Imagine that after a flash flood caused by torrential rain, if the watercourses cannot drain water properly, flooding will occur. Under such circumstance, is conservation important? It is important. Are the lives of villagers important? They are also important. After a flash flood caused by torrential rain, is the hope of the villagers to clear the watercourses important? They are all important. But as to how we can strike a balance or a basic balance LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4779 between environmental protection and the villagers' right to life, I hope that the relevant government department will conduct a study. Otherwise, despite our calls for conservation, if watercourses are silted up, which will result in pools of stagnant water everywhere, the entire ecological environment will disappear. The Government's original intent for conservation will end up in an ecological disaster. This is how things happen―even though no officials from the Environment Bureau are present in this Chamber today, rural problems are very often manifested in these areas, and the grievances of villagers have built up over the years.

I fully agree with the idea of setting up a "rural development and construction fund" as proposed in the original motion. It is because emergency situations will take place in villages, such as the falling of trees. What can villagers do now? They can only seek help from the Home Affairs Department. But in case of extreme urgency, the relevant situation cannot be dealt with instantly. For that reason, it is very important to set up an urgent relief fund to help rural residents to deal with urgent matters. Therefore, I do not only support the five items under the proposed "rural development and construction fund", I also wish that they can be implemented as soon as possible.

Moreover, although rural areas are relatively remote, the problem of vehicles being abandoned in these areas has not been properly addressed, resulting in the failure to improve the road access as well as the living environment of residents in these areas. If the relevant government officials are interested in this issue, I can take them to visit Chuen Lung Village. According to the Government's statistics, there were almost 1 000 complaints in the past three years about abandoned vehicles and disposal of unwanted items in rural areas. However, the Government only cares about whether or not they will cause a traffic jam. If they are not vehicles which have been reported as stolen, the Government will simply let them stay there, or wait until one day when a certain government department feels like doing something merciful to remove these abandoned vehicles by making joint efforts with some other departments. To members of the public, these abandoned vehicles should not be there, but the existing policies cannot deal with such problems.

The last thing is the question about squatter structures. I consider that squatter structures are important to villages. They involve historical issue as well as Hong Kong's cramped living conditions. Nevertheless, it is rather unfortunate that whenever villagers want to reinforce their squatter structures or 4780 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 to make them safer, the Lands Department will not offer a helping hand. Even after the Lands Department officials have carried out the relevant inspection, it is still very difficult for the requests of residents, such as redeveloping their squatter structures, to be approved. I hope the Lands Department and the Government will be more flexible in dealing with these matters, so that the problems faced by the public can be dealt with under the principle of truly serving the people as seen in the District Offices of the old days. As to the existing role of the Lands Department, I also wish the Government will conduct a review so that rural problems can be truly and properly dealt with and taken seriously by the Government.

President, I so submit.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LAU, you may now speak on the amendment. The time limit is five minutes.

MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I have to thank Mr Steven HO for proposing his amendment. In my view, this has already achieved my purpose of moving this motion, which is to arouse Members' interest in and encourage their discussion on this subject, with a view to urging the Government to formulate a comprehensive rural development policy.

The amendment of Mr Steven HO simply supplements my motion. In principle, his amendment does not differ greatly from my motion, but he only pays more attention to the development of agriculture and fisheries industries. In the amendment, he proposes promoting the development of leisure agriculture and fisheries, studying the feasibility of allowing recreational fishing in the marine fish culture zone in Sha Tau Kok ("STK"), and conducting a study to amend outdated legislation and offering suitable spaces to support essential facilities affected by rural development, including relocation of vegetable depots, vegetable marketing cooperative societies and farms.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4781

In my speech for moving the motion, I have already mentioned that the fundamental problem of STK lies in whether the restriction of the frontier closed area where it is located can be relaxed. As long as the restriction is not relaxed, public access to STK will not be easy, not to mention allowing recreational fishing in the marine fish culture zone and diversifying economic development there, and Mr HO's proposal will only be attempting an impossible task.

As regards the basic difference between Mr HO's amendment and my original motion, his focus is on the issue of agriculture and fisheries, while I am looking from the wider perspective of the New Territories as a whole. Therefore, we will not be caught in the blind alley of overgeneralization.

For those Members who agree with my motion and viewpoints, please note that the essence of Mr HO's amendment has already been incorporated in my motion. I urge Members to support my motion. I also need to declare that I have some agricultural investments.

President, I so submit.

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Kenneth LAU for proposing this motion today and Mr Steven HO for moving an amendment to the motion. I am also grateful to the many Members who have provided their valuable opinions on promoting the comprehensive development of rural areas. Next, the Home Affairs Bureau and I will supplement some key points from different aspects of the subject.

President, a number of Members mentioned the need to improve the infrastructures in rural villages. On water supply, the Water Supplies Department has, over the past 10-odd years, completed water supply systems for 24 remote villages and is now providing mains water supply for another three villages. As for those few remote villages with sparse population which still rely on river water or well water, we will regularly monitor their water quality and continue to provide timely assistance to address their water usage need.

On electricity supply, the Environment Bureau encourages the two power companies to provide electricity supply facilities based on the actual needs in the communities, with a view to providing reliable, stable and safe electricity 4782 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 services. For instance, to tie in with the electricity demand in the rural areas along Sha Tau Kok and Lai Chi Wo, the CLP Power Hong Kong Limited completed power supply works for the remote Hakka villages of Mui Tsz Lam and Kap Tong in May 2019, so as to provide reliable power supply to these two villages.

On telecommunications services, telecommunications operators have been actively extending, under the subsidy of the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, their fibre-based networks to remote districts. New fibre-based networks will be completed in phases this year, benefiting 235 villages and about 110 000 villagers. These networks will also serve as the necessary backbone infrastructure for the extension of 5G coverage to these remote villages in the future. Members also talked about fibre-to-the-home broadband services. As Secretary explained in the Legislative Council yesterday, since the wiring and installation works will involve private land and properties, fixed network operators can only proceed with the works when the relevant owners have reached a commercial agreement with them. This arrangement is largely the same as for subscribers in urban areas.

On stormwater drainage, the Development Bureau, together with relevant departments, have been formulating or renewing in stages since 1994 Drainage Master Plans for the New Territories and other major districts in the territory and has conducted a number of stormwater drainage works projects based on the Master Plans. As far as the New Territories is concerned, we have completed river management projects with a total length of over 100 km and implemented 27 village flood protection schemes in low-lying villages.

On sewerage systems, of the approximately 1 000 villages or rural areas in Hong Kong, some of them are considerably distant from the public sewer network. The Environment Bureau and related departments have been working proactively under the Village Sewerage Programme to gradually connect remote rural areas to public sewerage facilities, so as to improve the environment and hygiene conditions of the areas and reduce pollution in rivers and coastal waters. A total of $3.1 billion has been allocated for related works projects from 2018 to 2020. And the related authorities plan to submit within this year funding proposals in the total sum of about $600 million to the Legislative Council to conduct the related programmes. I hope Members can support the proposals.

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On transport infrastructures, the Government has been providing supporting transport infrastructures in accordance with the land use planning. When a development project is to be taken forward in a rural area or its adjacent district, the Transport and Housing Bureau and the related departments will consider the planning parameter of the development project and then decide whether new transport infrastructures have to be built and whether existing ones have to be upgraded or improved. Moreover, the Development Bureau has improved the structural safety of several existing public piers in remote New Territories districts and on outlying islands and upgraded the facilities of existing piers through the Pier Improvement Programme. This can meet the basic needs of remote villagers who mainly rely on marine transport or who engage in fishing operation and also facilitate access to these places by the public. At present, the Development Bureau is currently working at full speed the improvement works of 10 public piers under the first phase of the Pier Improvement Programme and has kicked started ahead of schedule the second phase of the Programme, in a bid to improve another 13 public piers.

Quite many Members mentioned revitalizing rural districts to improve the economy and employment opportunities there, especially for the agricultural and fisheries industries. On agriculture, the Food and Health Bureau will establish an Agricultural Park in Kwu Tung South. The Park is expected to provide about 80 hectares of farmland with different types of infrastructural facilities such as access roads and footpaths, irrigation, drainage, sewerage, etc. The Government will provide technical support to farmers on how to conduct farming activities in the Park. And the consultancy study on Agricultural Priority Areas is in active progress.

On fisheries, the Food and Health Bureau has been assisting fisheries through the Sustainable Fisheries Development Fund to develop recreational fisheries with cultural characteristics of the local fishermen. The related government departments will also consider the status of different marine fish culture zones and then decide whether to allow marine fish culture licensees to operate recreational fishing at their fish rafts.

Members also mentioned promoting the development of "smart rural areas". In this connection, the Innovation and Technology Bureau announced in December last year the second edition of the Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong ("Blueprint 2.0"). The Blueprint 2.0 puts forth the idea of Smart Village Pilots, which explore the use of technology to tackle the challenges faced by people 4784 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 living in rural areas or remote districts in their daily lives. The Innovation and Technology Bureau has contacted the Heung Yee Kuk N.T. and other organizations and it will conduct studies on individual pilot schemes in relation to the practical situations of individual rural areas. In the coming year, various government departments and the related organizations will strive to promote and implement the Smart Village Pilot initiatives, including the provision of free mobile network services in rural areas, which I mentioned in my opening speech.

Members are also concerned about promoting sustainable development in rural areas, especially in respect of financial support. The Government has reserved $1 billion to support the rural conservation work of the Environment Bureau, which will take Lai Chi Wo and Sha Lo Tung as the pilot areas. The Environment Bureau launched the Countryside Conservation Funding Scheme in October 2019 to support non-profit making organizations and villagers to organize diverse and innovative conservation activities or projects based on an interactive and cooperative approach. To date, a total of 17 projects involving a total funding of about $100 million have been approved.

President, Members have also expressed their views on the future planning and land use of the rural New Territories from a more holistic perspective. I will briefly respond to these views here.

Some Members are concerned about the time when the "Hong Kong 2030+: Towards a Planning Vision and Strategy Transcending 2030" ("Hong Kong 2030+") can be announced. What I can say here is that we expect to announce the final report of the Hong Kong 2030+ in the coming few months. I can say here that in terms of planning direction, the Hong Kong 2030+ has endorsed the view of the Task Force on Land Supply announced earlier, and that is, our shortfall of land is way more than 1 200 hectares estimated earlier.

Members also mentioned the planning of the New Territories, which indeed involves some historic reasons. Members may remember the "Melhado" case in 1983, after which many agricultural sites in the New Territories were put to different uses, including storage areas, open brownfield sites, etc. At that time, not all districts in the New Territories had a control plan; and indeed, this might have resulted in some chaotic land uses. Such situations, however, have been improved or will be further improved in the future. With our concerted efforts, we have laid down control plans for new development areas such as the Kwu Tung North/ North New Development Areas and the Hung Shui Kiu/Ha Tsuen New Development Area, and we have now reached the formal LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4785 implementation stage. In the batch of sites currently under tender, which we just put up for tender, some are located in Kwu Tung North and can be used for housing development. The three parts of the New Territories North Development Area cover more than 1 400 hectares in total area. We have advanced their relevant studies and we will come to the Panel on Development of the Legislative Council next month to submit the funding proposals for the corresponding studies at different stages. We will explain in greater detail then. So, the future development of the New Territories is plentiful and splendid. We believe the development will further improve the living environment for the New Territories residents.

Some Members asked whether the Government intended to put all obnoxious facilities in the New Territories, especially in the area near the boundary. The Government does not have such an intention. In fact, some facilities, such as food waste recovery plant and waste treatment plant, are planned for the future development needs of the area, or for the needs of Hong Kong as a whole. For the Government, it may not be appropriate to classify individual facilities as popular or not that popular. But rather, we must consider the design of the facilities and see whether they can fit into the environment of the area, and whether the operation of these facilities will cause any inconvenience or nuisance to the local residents. Actually, we will try our very best in taking forward these tasks, especially the food waste recovery facilities in the New Territories. I know that the Environment Bureau has already explained in detail how they will do a better job in this regard.

Members also talked about the opening up of Sha Tau Kok. I believe Members are aware that there is not a specific boundary barrier at Chung Ying Street of Sha Tau Kok. It thus poses a high security or smuggling risk. At the present stage, the Government does not have a specific plan to change the existing arrangement. But we adopt an open attitude to this subject and will be happy to listen to the valuable inputs from Members.

President, for the way forward, various Policy Bureaux and government departments will continue to work concertedly and cooperate fully with each other to improve the rural environment and development. Once again, I would like to thank Mr Kenneth LAU here for proposing this motion and Mr Steven HO for proposing the amendment.

Thank you, President.

4786 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, following the Secretary for Development's concluding speech, I would like to respond respectively to the Rural Public Works ("RPW") Programme, the licensing of home-stay lodgings in the rural areas, and the promotion of the culture and traditional customs of the New Territories, as well as add a few points.

On rural public works, the RPW Programme was established by the Home Affairs Department ("HAD") in 1999 to provide funding for minor works projects meant to improve the rural environment and benefit the public. As at the end of last year, more than 2 400 projects with a total value of over $2.45 billion were completed under the RPW Programme. Besides, the Chief Executive has proposed in the Chief Executive's 2019 Policy Address Supplement to increase progressively the annual provision for the RPW Programme to $160 million. In this connection, HAD has already increased in the first place the funding for the RPW Programme from $140 million in the previous financial year to $150 million in the current financial year, and it is anticipated that the additional funding of $10 million will be able to cater for about 9 additional projects this year. In addition, HAD plans to further increase the annual funding for the RPW Programme to $160 million next year. This will bring an additional funding of $90 million in total for the five years from 2020-2021 to 2024-2025, which will be sufficient for catering for nearly 70 additional projects.

As regards the development of home-stay lodgings in rural areas, I have to emphasize beforehand that the existing Hotel and Guesthouse Accommodation Ordinance (Cap. 349) ("the Ordinance") does not exclude guesthouses operated in the form of home-stay lodgings. The purpose of the licensing regime under the Ordinance is to ensure that the premises concerned meet the statutory requirements and standards of building structure and fire safety so as to ensure the safety of the public and visitors.

Like other licensed hotels and guesthouses, visitor accommodation facilities operating as home-stay lodgings are also regulated by the Ordinance. On the premise of ensuring that the buildings are up to the statutory standards in terms of structural and fire safety, the regulatory requirements imposed by the Ordinance are commensurate with the scale and mode of operation of the premises concerned. Upon receipt of an application for a guesthouse licence, the Office of the Licensing Authority ("the Office") of HAD will conduct site LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4787 inspections at the premises concerned and formulate applicable licensing requirements according to the circumstances of individual premises.

Having regard to the unique rural environment and the designs of village type houses in the New Territories, the Office has, as in the past, adopted a flexible and practical approach in formulating basic building and fire safety requirements exclusively applicable to village type houses (used as guesthouses) in the New Territories on the premise of ensuring that the buildings are up to the statutory standards in terms of structural and fire safety. Such requirements are less stringent than those for the licensing of guesthouses in multi-storey buildings in urban areas and are commensurate with the simpler designs of village type houses. According to the information provided by the Office, 124 guesthouses located in villages were licensed as at the end of December last year.

As to the accommodation services provided by way of setting up tents or parking caravans in the campsites inside farms, there is no hard and fast rule in determining whether individual camping facilities or campsites fall within the ambit of the Ordinance. It is necessary to look into the actual circumstances of individual cases. The Office will also formulate applicable licensing requirements according to the circumstances of individual premises if the premises in question do fall within the ambit of the Ordinance. For example, the Office has compiled a set of licensing guidelines applicable to caravans parked at fixed locations inside holiday camps for potential applicants' reference.

In addition, to facilitate licence applications for development of guesthouses in remote countryside, the Countryside Conservation Office is discussing with relevant bureaux/departments the preparation of a set of application guidelines for running guesthouses in countryside or to provision of some successful examples for applicants' reference.

As regards the promotion of the culture and traditional customs of the New Territories, there is a funding scheme under the Chinese Temples Fund ("CTF") for supporting the promotion of the culture and traditional customs of the New Territories. Having all along been committed to promoting traditional Chinese culture as well as the philosophies of Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism, CTF provides funding for eligible traditional rituals or events through the fund itself and its funding programmes.

4788 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

At present, there are two open calls each year for applications for funding under CTF, which is managed by the Chinese Temples Committee ("CTC"), with a maximum grant of HK$1 million for eligible events. This year, CTC has set to enhance the existing block grant scheme for regular yearly events by simplifying the application procedures, where the grant for eligible events is capped at HK$150,000.

Besides, a funding scheme for intangible cultural heritage ("ICH") was launched since early 2019 by the Intangible Cultural Heritage Office under the Leisure and Cultural Services Department to engage the community in safeguarding ICH and step up efforts in the protection of elements of ICH. Projects related to the protection of elements of ICH in the New Territories are also among the funded projects.

President, I would like to thank Members for their valuable views in respect of today's motion on promoting comprehensive rural development. HAD will examine carefully the suggestions made by Members today and continue to provide appropriate support for promoting rural development through relevant policies.

Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Mr Steven HO to move an amendment.

MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): President, I move my amendment.

The amendment moved by Mr Steven HO (See the marked-up version at Annex 1)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr Steven HO be passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4789

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the amendment passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LAU, you still have 1 minute 44 seconds to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): President, Honourable Members, the motion which I proposed to urge the Government to formulate a comprehensive rural development policy is based on both the development of Hong Kong and the overall situation.

The process of urbanization in Hong Kong does not aim at eliminating the rural community, while the formulation of a comprehensive rural development policy is meant not to hinder the progress of urbanization but to facilitate better, more effective and orderly integration of the overall development of Hong Kong into the Greater Bay Area on the premise of achieving urban-rural symbiosis. A sound and forward-looking rural development policy will make Hong Kong an even more colourful place under the principle of "one country, two systems".

I am grateful to the 15 Members who have spoken and given input on my motion. I hope that Members will vote in support of my motion.

Thank you.

4790 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr Kenneth LAU, as amended by Mr Steven HO, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

Mr Kenneth LAU rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LAU has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4791

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Paul TSE, Mr Michael TIEN, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Dr Junius HO, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, Dr CHENG Chung-tai and Mr Vincent CHENG voted for the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present and 23 were in favour of the motion as amended; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 18 were present and 18 were in favour of the motion as amended. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the motion as amended was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Debate on motion with no legislative effect.

Ms Elizabeth QUAT will move a motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies".

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Two Members will move amendments to the motion.

This Council will proceed to a joint debate on the motion and the amendments.

Later, I will first call upon Ms Elizabeth QUAT to speak and move the motion. Then I will call upon Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung to speak in sequence, but they may not move their amendments at this stage.

The joint debate now begins. Members who wish to speak please press the "Request to speak" button.

I now call upon Ms Elizabeth QUAT to speak and move the motion.

4792 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

MOTION ON "THOROUGHLY REFORMING THE SUBJECT OF LIBERAL STUDIES"

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, education is the foundation of a country and the basis of national strength. It is crucial to the growth of our next generation and the future of Hong Kong. This is why the issue of education has always been of great concern to Hong Kong society. The most frequently and intensely discussed subject in recent years is Liberal Studies.

President, my motion entitled "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" should have been moved in 9 December last year but, for various reasons, it was deferred until today. In the meantime, many committees and working groups of the Legislative Council have discussed the issue of Liberal Studies ("LS") and the has also made many responses. However, I think we can still move this motion today on the issues of LS and , so that we can focus our discussion on the issues related to the education in Hong Kong.

President, as we know, LS has been implemented since 2009, with the original intent of broadening students' knowledge base and horizons through the study of a wide range of issues, and enabling them to make connections with and integrate the knowledge across different disciplines. It aims at helping students develop positive values and attitudes towards life, so that they can become informed and responsible citizens of society, our country and the world. It also aims at nurturing students' critical thinking. Since its establishment, LS has been a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students. Yet, after so many years of implementing the LS subject in Hong Kong, morbid changes have taken place in areas such as its curriculum contents, assessment criteria and methods, teaching materials, teachers' qualifications and teaching viewpoints, which have deviated from the original intent of introducing the LS subject and even, as some believe, produced some opposite effects. Besides, many parents believe that the LS subject has occupied so much of students' study time that their learning progress in other subjects have been affected. The involvement of many students in social incidents in recent years has resulted in more parents being skeptical about the LS subject and loss of trust in it.

Looking back at the social riots of 2019, we can see from the Police's statistics that the Police arrested 10 148 people ranging from 11 to 84 in age, but LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4793 minors account for up to 17%, numbering 1 747 people. The number of students arrested for participation in riots was as high as 3 974. That is why, all of a sudden, people put a lot of focus on the education of Hong Kong, feeling that something has gone wrong with it. I have also received complaints from many, many parents.

President, first of all, I wish to make it clear that I am not targeting some teachers by moving this motion. In fact, there are many excellent teachers in Hong Kong. I hold high respect for them and believe that they deserve praise from all walks of life. In particular, during the current fight against the pandemic, many teachers are very hard-working and dedicated to their duties, running lessons for students through different means, such as online teaching. Personally, I have also met many excellent teachers, who have nurtured my character. Recently, however, I have received complaints from many parents that something is amiss with some teachers. That said, sometimes, while discussing education, we receive comments that this Council should not take aim at teachers, making them feel extremely disrespected. Therefore, I would like to first reiterate here that we deeply respect good teachers. It is our hope that, through debates, the whole society can place more emphasis on education and explore how education should be reformed in the future.

We see that, meanwhile, the Education Bureau ("EDB") has actually introduced some reforms to the LS subject in the light of some of the proposals I made in my original motion. My original motion calls for removing the LS subject as a core subject and abolishing it as a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students. EDB's latest reform is to keep the subject compulsory for public assessment, but only mark the public exam result as a pass or a fail, so as to allegedly release examination pressure. President, I still do not consider it absolutely necessary for LS to be a core subject or be compulsory for public assessment. In my opinion, while EDB's reform is in progress, it is desirable for us to make further observation in this regard to see if EDB's current objective can be achieved, before proceeding with our discussion. However, as far as the needs of the times is concerned, is LS really the currently most important core subject, which has to be compulsory for public assessment? I think this can be further discussed.

In addition, as I mentioned just now, many parents consider the number of LS course hours too high, and that is why this time round EDB has also indicated 4794 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 the intention to reorganize and reduce the curriculum content, so as to free up space for students to learn other subjects, which has my support. Moreover, Independent Enquiry Study ("IES") has always been criticized as ineffective. Many people hold that the LS subject has made students ignorant rather than knowledgeable, and its content on critical thinking and distinction between right and wrong has possibly made many students―not all of them, of course―more and more radical, so much so that they resort to criticism, finger-pointing and complaints, not necessarily knowing how to distinguish between right and wrong. Therefore, actually, I also support the removal of IES.

In addition, I certainly support the Government's approach of including the learning about national development, the Constitution and the Basic Law education, and the sense of national identity into the syllabus. I think it is very important that these supposedly existent elements are now being strengthened. Moreover, in my view, the provision of Mainland study opportunities and the review of textbooks are very good changes, but are they sufficient?

I hold that the Government has to answer three broad questions from parents. The first one is about the qualifications and ethics of teachers. Let me reiterate that there are many very good teachers in Hong Kong, but the disappointing behaviour of many teachers during this period has made many parents very worried. In schools, there were teachers taking the lead to bully the children of police officers. We have also seen some teachers make use of teaching activities, and particularly school-based teaching materials, to instil their own political ideas into students and even lead them to participate in some illegal activities. Therefore, in my opinion, when undertaking the total reform of the LS subject, EDB should respond to the aspirations of the community and parents by indicating what it intends to do about the development of teachers' qualifications and ethics, so that parents and the community can feel at ease.

As regards teaching materials, there is now improvement with the review of curriculum, which is very important and certainly has our full support. We have been discussing school-based teaching materials for a long time. I know that EDB just issued a circular on "Selection of Quality Textbooks and Learning and Teaching Resources for Use in Schools" to all secondary schools, primary schools and kindergartens in Hong Kong on the 23rd of this month, requesting schools to set up a review mechanism for school-based teaching materials and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4795 asking the management to monitor the use of teaching materials by teachers. Besides, additional criteria for the selection have been introduced, including the need to nurture students' positive values and attitude, and the need for objective and impartial contents.

Finally, in response to my request, EDB has suggested the need to further monitor school-based teaching materials and provide adequate guidelines. I express support for its suggestion, but what matters most is how to implement it. In this regard, I hope that EDB will provide us with more detailed information in the future to indicate how it intends to implement the requirements, and I believe that there will be improvement in this respect.

Regarding examination and question setting, EDB is still saying that the LS subject should be compulsory for public assessment and a pass in examination is still required, but what are the criteria for examination and question setting? With the recent problems with the setting of examination questions, which are highly worrying, I believe that the Government also needs to provide parents and the general public with more detailed information on how to do proper gatekeeping in examination and question setting.

Whether the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority needs reform is another issue that, in my opinion, we need to discuss in detail.

What we attach most importance to is certainly how students learn positive values, foster a sense of national identity and understand our country throughout the education process. I believe that much work is still needed in this area, but what matters most are still teacher qualifications. If teachers still distort values and have neither sense of national identity nor understanding of the country, how can they teach students through the curriculum? Therefore, President, what I am most concerned about now is the issue of teacher qualifications. I believe that EDB should also give a detailed explanation in this regard. Will those teachers currently teaching LS really be able to teach the reformed or renamed LS subject in the future?

President, the present era is one in which technology is shaping the future. The Internet is flooded with information, but it is also full of knowledge. What is actually being taught in today's education? Many parents sometimes tell us 4796 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 that whatever knowledge is available on the Internet for us to acquire, if we wish to. When it comes to learning about reaction, calculation and projection, artificial intelligence ("AI") is actually faster and smarter than humans. What should be taught in modern day education, exactly? What should students learn? Previously, I have expressed my view multiple times in this Council that today's compulsory subjects should be about how to make the best use of technology, such as learning computer languages for the Internet, coding and AI. Many cities and countries have gradually included coding and AI into the compulsory curriculum of primary schools. I think that this is the future development and hope that Hong Kong will not lag behind the trend. Nevertheless, what are our teaching purposes, anyway? I think the community also needs to discuss it.

During our visit to Finland, we saw that the local teachers are highly qualified, respected and autonomous. I think we should also consider how to train a group of highly qualified, respected and autonomous teachers in Hong Kong. Whether it is raining or snowing, Finnish students are required to go outdoor to get in touch with the nature, so as to continue learning through play while full of curiosity and vigour. In Germany, the study of philosophy is already compulsory in secondary schools. In Japan, university students have to learn the tea ceremony. In Europe, the appreciation of art begins in primary school. Each city has its own focus to nurture future talents for development in a certain direction. I often ask myself: what should be taught and learned in Hong Kong's education? Nowadays, I think this is even more deserving of our contemplation. As we have taken a wrong path before, it is all the more necessary for us to get back on the right track today. When we are back on the right track, I will contemplate this question: what exactly should we teach in education? President, in my view, it is most important to teach students how to behave as wise, educated, capable and conscientious people.

In the famous words of ZHANG Zai of the Northern Song Dynasty, education is "to ordain conscience for Heaven and Earth, to secure life and fortune for the people, to continue lost teachings for past sages, and to establish peace for all future generations". I think we need to rethink which direction we should take in nurturing Hong Kong's future talent in education, whether with respect to LS or other subjects.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4797

President, as Hong Kong is moving from chaos to governance, it is time to face up to the issue of education again, re-examine education in Hong Kong, and nurture a new generation of talent for Hong Kong and the country.

President, I so submit. I also support Dr Priscilla LEUNG's and Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendments, which enrich the motion.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, please move your motion.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I move my motion.

Ms Elizabeth QUAT moved the following motion: (Translation)

"That the subject of Liberal Studies ('LS') is one of the four core subjects under the New Senior Secondary curriculum and also a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students; yet, after years of implementing the LS subject in Hong Kong, morbid changes have taken place in areas such as its curriculum contents, assessment criteria and methods, teaching materials, teachers' qualifications and teaching viewpoints, which not only have deviated from the original intent of introducing the LS subject, but have even produced some opposite effects; at present, many senior secondary students have been deeply influenced by the morbid changes in the LS subject, and the subject curriculum has occupied so much of students' study time that their learning progress in other subjects have been affected, resulting in the complete loss of trust in the LS subject among quite a number of parents; despite the strong community demand for a thorough reform of the LS subject, the report recently presented by the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum has failed to respond to community concerns, and the overly conservative recommendations put forth by the Task Force have also fallen short of the community expectations; in this connection, with a view to enabling the new generation to cultivate proper values and the ability of critical thinking and to become youngsters with a sense of social responsibility, this Council urges the Government to thoroughly reform the LS subject; the relevant proposals include:

4798 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

(1) removing the LS subject as a core subject and abolishing it as a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students;

(2) substantially amending its curriculum arrangements by reducing its coverage and lesson time, and placing more emphasis on teaching mature topics with a factual basis;

(3) compiling a recommended textbook list for the LS subject, including the textbooks in the existing textbook review mechanism, studying the feasibility of having the Government publish textbooks on the LS subject, and setting up a database on the LS subject with the requirement that schools must upload their school-based materials and lessons plans (including worksheets and examination questions) onto the database for monitoring by the Education Bureau and the public;

(4) reviewing the training programmes for prospective LS subject teachers and the Professional Development Programmes for serving LS subject teachers to ensure that the teaching standards of both prospective and serving teachers of the LS subject are in line with the original intent of introducing the subject;

(5) enhancing the self-evaluation, internal quality assurance and accountability mechanism for school managements and improving the existing mechanism for complaints against teachers, so as to guarantee the school-based quality of the LS subject and the effective handling of complaints involving LS subject teachers; and

(6) establishing with the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority a system for closer cooperation and supervision to ensure fairness and impartiality in various aspects such as examination paper setting, moderation and assessment, so as to bring the assessment of the LS subject in line with the original intent of introducing the subject."

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ms Elizabeth QUAT be passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4799

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, as the saying goes, "the will of the youth is the will of the nation". As we can see, the moral character and will of young people of a country or society will determine the future of the place. In recent years, there have been serious problems with Hong Kong's education system, particularly concerning the education of minors and the characters of teachers, which have aroused grave concern in the community. As remarked by Ms Elizabeth QUAT just now, many teachers questioned why the Legislative Council has time and time again discussed the problems of the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS"). I would like to highlight our concern about the black sheep in the education sector. Had there not been black sheep in the education sector, it would be absolutely unnecessary for teachers to fit themselves into the picture.

President, while Ms Elizabeth QUAT proposed this motion on reforming the LS subject in 2021, I also proposed a similar motion back in 2015, which turned out to be the only one among the eight motions I have moved at the Legislative Council that had been voted down. The remaining seven were livelihood-related motions that were agreed by both the pro-democracy and pro-establishment camps. Why was the motion in question voted down? Because whenever we discussed issues relating to the LS subject, former Member and representative of the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union ("PTU") Mr IP Kin-yuen would speak in an unfriendly and uncooperative way, making it almost impossible for any objective discussion to take place. The PTU News had even gone so far as to publish a lengthy statement on its front page, which was tantamount to making a wanton personal attack on me. While the LS subject does involve a sizable group of people, I think it involves political interests as well.

Just now I reiterated that had there not been black sheep in the education sector, it was downright unnecessary to turn down our views on the LS subject. When the LS subject was still under discussion and had yet to be formally implemented in around 2004 or 2005, I used to be strongly supportive of the direction of introducing the subject. However, during the discussion on the LS subject at the Panel on Education in 2009, Members from not only the pro-establishment camp but also various parties highlighted the problems with the teaching materials and examination methods of the LS subject, given that the Administration insisted on adopting the "spoon-feeding" approach to teach the LS subject. In fact, examination is not an essential component of education. However, the Administration has not only kept the LS subject compulsory for 4800 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 assessment, but has made it a compulsory study and examination subject for university admission. What is more, compulsory questions have been set in the examination papers. As such, even before political considerations became a concern back then, Members had already raised a number of questions from the education perspective alone.

The Education Bureau ("EDB") has received complaints about the characters of some teachers and the use of foul language in class. Some of the reported cases were really unusual. In one instance, I was approached by a civil servant couple living in Sham Shui Po for help. They have three children. One day, the daughter, a Secondary Four student who was studying the LS subject, had an argument with her mother and said she wished the latter would die soon. As I recall, two tragic cases of domestic violence took place in Hong Kong in that particular year, both of which involved the son attacking the parent with chopper. I could not figure out what the problem was. The mother said that neither of her two sons behaved that way, and she had no idea why her daughter would have said such thing to her. Her daughter subsequently explained that she had learned in class about children receiving inheritance from their deceased parents. Noting that her daughter might have some misunderstanding, the mother then asked why she said so. The daughter replied that she had learnt about inheritance and parental relationship in LS lessons. This was really shocking. Students did not have a full understanding about what their teachers had taught them, adding that those 16-year-old and 17-year-old teenagers are in their most rebellious years, they have been led into believing that they would be freed and inherit their parents' property after the latter died. This couple was introduced to me by a District Council member, and they very much hoped that I would bring up the problems of the LS subject on their behalf.

Since then, I have teamed up with a group of parents, teachers, principals and people who care about the LS subject to set up the Joint Conference Concerning Liberal Studies in Hong Kong. We have been scrutinizing the examination papers of EDB and tried to get in touch with the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority every year. However, our efforts have all along been disregarded and downplayed. I may even borrow the recent remarks made by the Chief Executive that EDB has "turned a blind eye to or ignored" us. I am not sure whether EDB is indifferent or helpless―I must be fair to the Secretary as he was not the person-in-charge back then―the issue has developed and evolved until today. I remember when the incumbent Chief Executive was running for office, I asked her specifically about her attitude LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4801 towards the LS subject. As she had included reforming the LS subject in her election manifesto, I had been urging her to make good on her promise year after year. Due to the "black-clad violence", the Chief Executive finally announced in her Policy Address delivered last November a number of principles and directions for rectifying the LS subject. I concur with the directions, including the need for developing the contents systematically instead of devolving all the powers downwards. Should all the powers be devolved to schools, schools will in turn delegate the powers to teachers. In the absence of supervision in the characters of teachers, teaching quality can be rather alarming sometimes. Hence, I concur with the general directions of increasing teaching materials on, inter alia, knowledge about "one country, two systems", the Constitution and the Basic Law, highlighting to students that everyone is responsible for national security, and enhancing training for teachers, etc.

However, what warrants our worry or concern is the follow-up work. Under the current reform, lesson time for the LS subject has been reduced from 250 hours to 150 hours, and three main themes have been set out, namely Hong Kong under "One Country, Two Systems"; Our Country since Reform and Opening-up, and Interconnectedness and Interdependence of the Contemporary World. I find these three main themes acceptable. The lesson time for each theme is about 40 to 50 hours, with the remaining 10 hours scheduled for study tours to the Mainland. I heard that the LS subject will be renamed "Citizenship and Social Development". Regardless of whether the subject is called new LS or something else, we are only concerned about its content. As the saying goes, "it takes ten years to sharpen a sword". It has been proved that there are serious problems with the sword due to EDB's half-baked teaching materials, supervision, teaching and assessment; its inability to ensure the quality of schools and teachers, and the requirement of making LS a compulsory study and examination subject. In fact, the number of black sheep is not an issue. As I said just now, our target is the black sheep in the education sector. Just imagine: The number of black sheep, who are teachers, accounts for 15% of the sector, and each of them has influenced dozens of students a year in the past years.

In this circumstance, it is necessary for EDB to seriously consider removing the requirement of making LS a compulsory study and examination subject and taking into account only internal grades. In other words, students will only be required to obtain school certificates for university admission. In addition, multiple choice questions should be removed from examinations so that students can enjoy happy learning. Diversified teaching can also be introduced, 4802 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 such as the use of audiovisual technology, the broadcast of documentaries, and even the use of 4D technology to recapitulate historical events, for example the negotiations leading up to the reunification of Hong Kong. EDB does not necessarily have to adopt a spoon-feeding or examination-based approach to teach the new subject. Only when students can learn happily will our education achieve greater success in developing our next generation into upright Chinese people and energetic young people.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I am thankful to Ms Elizabeth QUAT for moving this motion. Ms Elizabeth QUAT also said just now that she originally proposed this motion last year. While a long time has lapsed, I still hope that there is room for discussion.

President, "a nation will prosper when young people thrive". Every nation hopes to teach its younger generation to have ideals and a sense of responsibility for this has a bearing on the future of the country and the revival of the nation. In view of the anti-Chinese sentiments and attacks against Asian people in Western countries at present, we will only be bullied wherever we go if our nation does not strive to become strong and powerful.

President, since 2009, the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") has been one of the four core subjects under the "3-3-4" New Senior Secondary curriculum. Twelve years have passed since the introduction of the LS subject, but there are more criticisms than praises. The original intent of introducing the LS subject is to develop students' independent thinking and interdisciplinary thinking skills. However, regrettably, due to various reasons, including the inaction of the Education Bureau ("EDB"), schools getting out of control, teachers' advocacy and poor teaching materials, the subject has deviated from or even run counter to its original intent. Not only has it failed to develop a sense of national identity among students, it has even failed to teach students to think twice before they act.

Of course, it would be somewhat unfair to put the blame entirely on education for the social incidents in 2019, but people will surely wonder: why did Hong Kong's education system fail to play its role when the problems arose? I am not saying that education in Hong Kong has given rise to the social incidents, but just asking about the role played by education in the course of the social incidents. We have seen from video footages that while some school teachers LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4803 composed "acrostics", some students sang "Hong Kong independence" songs at schools in the presence of teachers. Not only were they not stopped by anyone, the school concerned even said that, upon completion of investigation, there was no problem at all. Finally, EDB had to deal with the matter itself in order to achieve a better result, that is, teachers who had committed acts of misconducted were disqualified ("DQ"). Does this issue need to be addressed squarely? It absolutely needs to be addressed squarely. This situation also reflects that the problem of the LS subject deviating from its objective is imminent and the subject must be reformed.

Originally, I advocated "killing the subject", that is, abolishing the LS subject and introducing the Moral and National Education subject. At the time when I put forward such advocacy, EDB had not yet published the review report on the LS subject, but now the relevant review has completed and major changes will be made. They have our support. We hope that education in Hong Kong can return to the original track and achieve its original intent, thereby addressing the problem at root, setting things rights and eliminating the possibility of becoming a hotbed for "the promotion of Hong Kong independence".

President, the proposed changes announced by EDB earlier are, among other things, not to "kill the subject" and change the assessment and curriculum. Why did I propose to "kill the subject" in the first place? The reason is very simple. The situation is just like a pot of congee being contaminated by something dirty. Originally, the congee had become inedible and theoretically speaking, it would be the safest to pour it away, but EDB said that the pot of congee could be saved. At this point, it is no longer a matter of right or wrong, and we all know that this should be the last chance. If the reform still fails to achieve success, then "killing the subject" will be what lies ahead. This point must be made clear. Here, I would like to advise that if schools, students or teachers treasure this subject, they should properly implement the reform and follow the guidelines, with a view to restoring the original intent of introducing the LS subject and allowing it to properly play its role.

President, the reform must be implemented thoroughly rather than making superficial changes, otherwise all efforts would be futile. Yet, I must point out some very concrete cases here. As two colleagues have also mentioned earlier, individual school teachers were found misconducted or deliberately promoting "Hong Kong independence", or such cases being mishandled. We have also 4804 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 heard many other stories. Some "non-yellow" teachers―they are not "yellow"; I do not know whether they should be regarded as "blue", but they are certainly not "yellow"―relayed to us that while some of them were crowded out by colleagues, some were crowded out by their schools and even by students. When teachers wanted to teach their students, the latter would lodge a case to the complaint mechanism and get the teachers into trouble. I felt bitterly disappointed after hearing this because while it is a blessing to have so many good, traditional, professional and responsible teachers, they are now facing a very difficult situation. How can EDB help save them from becoming animals in a zoo at school? Under normal circumstances, these teachers should be the mainstream, but they are now being oppressed. Is EDB aware of this and have the schools dealt with it? Or are they going to follow the past approach of advising the teachers to be amiable, to get along well with others, to turn a blind eye to those people or to discuss and handle the problems slowly should they arise? I am very worried that if such an attitude is adopted in handling the matter, these teachers will eventually lose the will to fight and leave their professional positions when there is no other alternative. This is something that I absolutely do not want to see.

Furthermore, in the coming reform, the Government is finally willing to strengthen national education. In the past, the curriculum of the LS subject was too vague. The reformed LS subject will enhance students' understanding of the complexities of society, the nation, the human world, the physical environment and related knowledge. Also, it will emphasize inheriting Chinese culture, deepening students' understanding and sense of identity of individuals with Chinese nationality and as Chinese citizens. Moreover, it is necessary to enhance the education on the relationship between national development and the constitutional system, the National Security Law and so on, as this will help lay down a good foundation for students in this respect. Of course, the history, development and culture of the country must also be included to prevent anyone from distorting the country's history again. Some people have even attempted to falsify the past, saying something like the Opium War was for the good of China and the Japanese invasion of China had done more good than harm. Similar situations should not recur.

After all, it is imperative to treasure our younger generation. The study of LS is rather difficult for the younger generation at secondary level because the scope of study is too broad. In order for secondary students to be multi-talented and all-rounded, they have to learn more than just the knowledge in the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4805 textbooks, but also to understand how society and the world operate. Thus, the expectation of them is much higher than that of mine at secondary level. Secondary students should have spent more time making some good friends and finding some life partners as friendship developed during the schooling years is the most sincere. However, regrettably, as a result of the infiltration of political forces into school campuses, I believe many schools are now seriously divided, thereby making it difficult for the community to build consensus in the future. While some people vow that everyone can express different views and speak his mind freely, why don't they think about how hard it is for other countries to manage and govern when it is so difficult for a place having only 7-odd million people to forge a consensus?

President, in my opinion, more emphasis should be placed on the important expressions relating to our country, for example, the two centenary goals and the direction of each Five Year Plan. This would enable students to genuinely follow the pace of national development, and understand the direction of national development. Of course, we should also place strong emphasis on how the schools and teachers can be properly monitored. I believe all the prospective teachers will fully understand the National Security Law. Theoretically, teachers are all patriots. Is it reasonable and fair to require them to take oath? This is not only a way to set the minds of parents and students at ease, but also a means to address the current disputes and distrust (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWOK Wai-keung, please stop speaking.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): Thank you, President.

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, I am very thankful to Ms Elizabeth QUAT for proposing this motion today, so that we can have a focused discussion on the reform of the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") for senior secondary education.

The Government set up the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum ("the Task Force") at the end of 2017 to review the primary and secondary curricula and make improvement recommendations. After an extensive consultation to collect views for three years, the Task Force submitted its report 4806 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 to the Bureau in September last year and put forward various enhancement measures formulated from a macro perspective. The Task Force's recommendations cover six major directions of reform, including a proposal to optimize the four senior secondary core subjects. After the publication of the report, the focus of discussion of members of the community is still the LS subject. Many people stick to their own arguments about whether LS should be a core subject compulsory for public assessment; or should be converted into a senior secondary elective subject, or even retained or removed. The controversies over the subject have not ceased, which is absolutely not good for curriculum development and students' learning.

For this reason, the Government must make a decisive decision to avoid protracting the reform of the LS subject. In the 2020 Policy Address, the Chief Executive proposed the future direction of reforming this subject, which is about rectifying the deviation from the subject's objectives during its implementation in the past, and reinstating it as the platform to help students establish a sound foundation of knowledge, make connection between the knowledge across different subjects, develop critical thinking skills, analyze contemporary issues in a rational manner and learn about the development of our nation, the Constitution, the Basic Law, the rule of law and so forth. According to the existing mechanism for curriculum reform, the Curriculum Development Council ("CDC") and the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority have set up a committee to follow up on the changes of the curriculum, including the curriculum content and the detailed arrangements for public examination. After gauging views from the industry, the committee will work out the reformed curriculum content for early implementation based on professional considerations.

Since its implementation in 2009, the LS subject has been a major focus of the reform of senior secondary curriculum. However, there have been discussions in society from time to time about the morbid changes of the subject in the course of its implementation, which have led to worries that the original rationale of the curriculum cannot be accurately applied. For the LS subject, there are views that the curriculum content and concepts involved are not well delineated and defined. In addition, there are no recommended textbooks for the subject and hence no guarantee of quality and accuracy of students' learning materials. The subject has become a platform for superficial recount of current affairs or expression of views without providing a sufficient knowledge base for rational analysis and meaningful discussion to take place. Some people are even LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4807 worried that individual teachers will use the LS subject as a platform to put forward their own political views. Some teachers and students also lament that the weighting of the Independent Enquiry Study ("IES") of the LS subject in the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination does not justify the vast amount of time and effort spent. The excessively extensive coverage of the curriculum, unclear curriculum requirements and concepts as well as insufficient lesson time have all along been the key areas of reform proposed by teachers. Therefore, I wish to make use of the opportunity today to clearly explain the major directions of reforming the LS subject.

The Government's proposal to keep the subject compulsory for public assessment has been carefully considered taking into account the Task Force's recommendations and the community's concerns, and is premised on the interest of students and their outcomes. The community generally recognizes the original curriculum aims and objectives of the LS subject, and retaining it will enable students to integrate and apply their knowledge in analyzing contemporary cross-disciplinary topics, as well as develop their critical thinking skills and civic qualities. Hence, the subject does have its values and functions, and these qualities and abilities are also generally valued by various education systems or organizations around the world.

Regarding the curriculum content, the Task Force has clearly proposed to trim and simplify the content, and allow students to choose IES after it becomes non-compulsory. Currently, IES has taken up one third of the subject's total lesson time. Following the removal of IES, coupled with a reduction and reorganization of the curriculum, both the content and lesson time for the reformed curriculum will be about half of the original, thus lessening students' burden, freeing up space for students to take other subjects, develop their interests and/or participate in life-wide learning activities, as well as expanding their horizons. More importantly, the reformed curriculum will clarify the important learning concepts in the curriculum to strengthen the coverage of knowledge. CDC has been following up on the detailed curriculum content under the principle of "Led by Professionals", so as to build a solid knowledge base for students, nurture their generic skills like critical thinking, creative thinking, communication and collaboration, and values like civic awareness, the rule of law and respect for others. All these are indispensable qualities required of students in the face of the challenges in the 21st century.

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Another key point of reforming the LS subject is to enhance the learning elements related to national development, the Constitution, the Basic Law and the rule of law. In fact, these learning elements can be found in the current curriculum of the LS subject. However, to tie in with the accurate and comprehensive implementation of "one country, two systems", the education system is responsible for enabling students to clearly understand the Constitution of the country, the Basic Law, and the relationship between Hong Kong and the nation, so that they can develop a sense of national identity, a sense of commitment and responsibility to safeguard national security, as well as grasp the future opportunities and situations and integrate with the life/development of the Mainland.

There will still be public assessment after the curriculum reform, which will help members of the public understand the implementation of the curriculum and rebuild their confidence. In the past, many people were doubtful whether the LS subject could really nurture students' critical thinking skills. On the one hand, the absence of approved textbooks for the LS subject has resulted in reliance on information collected by teachers for discussions on current issues, which has aroused doubts about whether the subject can develop students' abilities in integrating knowledge and critical thinking. On the other hand, there have been lots of disputes over the examination questions, such as political issues, year after year. Hence, members of the community all along have mistrust in the subject. There are also views that some of the public examination questions of the LS subject tended to be dichotomous and created a backwash effect, which is not conducive to nurturing students' skills in solving problems by thinking from multiple perspectives and adopting an accommodating and cooperative attitude. Since some teachers have put too much emphasis on examination skills and drilling for examination questions, learning has become exam-oriented. This runs counter to the rationale of encouraging students to explore as emphasized in the curriculum. We proposed marking the public examination as "attained" and "not attained" after the reform. This will help release students' examination pressure and relieve the workload of teachers and students, and at the same time give recognition to the efforts of students.

IES will be removed from the reformed curriculum, but Mainland study opportunities will be provided for teachers to lead students to gain a first-hand and accurate understanding of our country and its development. This will have a positive effect on nurturing in students a sense of national identity. As for how the study will be conducted, it is believed that holistic considerations will be made by CDC and its committees.

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Under the reformed LS curriculum, a Recommended Textbook List for the subject will be put in place to play the gatekeeping role in ensuring textbooks' quality. The use of approved textbooks by teachers will reduce the chance of obtaining learning materials from merely newspaper and online information, thereby eliminating the possibility of choosing journalistic materials that are biased and do not match with the stages of students' mental development, which may affect their learning.

At present, another problem with the LS subject is the use of current issues as teaching topics by teachers. As some of the incidents are still developing and changing, many people are doubtful whether students can explore them in a meaningful way. I must point out that many LS subject teachers have actually put in their best to prepare for lessons, and collect information to guide students in their discussions and exploration. However, we agree to the Task Force's recommendation that students should discuss mature issues so that their analytical skills can be developed on the basis of comprehensive information. Students can also broaden their international perspectives, connect knowledge across different subjects, develop their critical thinking skills and analyze contemporary topics in a rational manner through studying important topics related to Hong Kong, the nation and the global developments. CDC is now working out the detailed content. We will arrange for teachers' training in the areas of understanding and interpreting the curriculum, as well as learning and teaching strategies to tie in with the reformed curriculum, and provide teaching resources to support teachers in their teaching.

Last but not least, the Bureau will also rename the reformed subject so that it can start afresh with its enhanced content and arrangements.

As for the deployment of teachers, since the subject will still be compulsory for public assessment and cover the existing content of the LS subject, serving LS subject teachers and teacher trainees should be able to teach the enhanced curriculum. Moreover, the number of teaching staff in the school establishment is basically computed according to the number of classes in a school and the teacher-to-class ratio. Hence, the reform of the subject will not cause a reduction in the overall number of teaching posts. Schools can, according to the principle of school-based management and actual needs, flexibly redeploy teachers' duties, for example, teachers who formerly taught the LS subject can teach other junior or senior secondary subjects, and share non-teaching duties such as life-wide learning activities. The Bureau will also 4810 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 communicate with school managements and frontline teachers on an ongoing basis to provide, in the light of their needs, comprehensive support for the professional development of teachers through curriculum development visits, school-based support services, school network initiative and so on.

The deviation of the curriculum from its objectives should be dealt with using the right remedies. The reformed subject will remain as a core subject compulsory for public assessment, which will provide a platform for students to understand our nation, develop their critical thinking skills and civic qualities. The reformed curriculum will, in accordance with the aims and objectives of the current LS curriculum, simplify the curriculum content, establish a sound foundation of knowledge, refine the teaching materials and assessment arrangement as well as review the textbooks and so on. This is in line with the Task Force's recommendations to focus on the interest of students and their outcomes and create more space for them. As for the Mainland study, it is also in line with the rationale of IES and provides opportunities for project-based learning. The aforesaid proposals are largely in line with the Member's proposed directions set out in the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". However, to cultivate a sense of national identity in students, we cannot simply rely on the curriculum of one subject or the schools themselves throughout the process. It is only through the concerted efforts of people from all walks of life that we can achieve the desired results.

President, I so submit. I will listen carefully to the views of Members before making my concluding speech. Thank you, President.

MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Cantonese): President, the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") is one of the four compulsory core subjects under the New Senior Secondary curriculum implemented since 2009, and was formally included as an examination subject in the first Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination in 2012. The objective of the Education Bureau ("EDB") back then was to enable students to apply the knowledge and concepts acquired from other subjects to explore contemporary issues, develop the ability to think independently from multiple perspectives, cultivate positive values and conduct inquiry-based learning.

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However, the subject of LS is considered the most controversial one in the history of education in Hong Kong. There have been ongoing debates in society arising from the subject's idiosyncratic assessment format, fraud in Independent Enquiry Study ("IES"), lack of objective criteria in grading and overly extensive curriculum. The specialty of the training provided for teachers was also called into doubt. In recent years, there has been strong resentment in society that the LS subject has made the young people radical. Former Chief Executive TUNG Chee-hwa said that the introduction of LS during his tenure was a complete failure, and had indirectly led to the situation in which a large number of young people oppose the Government.

Chief Executive Carrie LAM pointed out in a radio programme in November 2020 that a big problem of the LS subject was the absence of a curriculum framework, and the textbooks were not subject to vetting and approval. She also said that problems with LS had arisen since day one. In the fourth Policy Address in her term of office, she proposed to rectify the deviation from the objectives of the subject and reckoned that LS had turned critical thinking into indiscriminate opposition.

President, I believe in this Council, colleagues of similar age with me have not studied this Hong Kong-style LS. As a matter of fact, each person's abilities to understand, to think independently from multiple perspectives, to develop positive values and to conduct inquiry-based learning were acquired by gradual accumulation and perception through life experience, learning, work experience and contact with different people and things. It is impossible to achieve this simply by taking one subject. Moreover, it is inconceivable to conduct quantitative assessment on the competence in LS. As Members of the Legislative Council, we face many different issues every day. Before giving advice and suggestions to the Government, we have to look up and identify the information, consider and analyze it from multiple perspectives, and weigh the pros and cons. A critical mind alone is absolutely insufficient.

One of the modules of LS is "Hong Kong Today", under which the teaching materials and examination questions cover universal values and the core values of Hong Kong. For a long time, we have often regarded the core values upheld by Western countries as universal values. Chinese traditional values of loyalty, filial piety, benevolence, righteousness and truthfulness; prosperity, democracy, civility, harmony, freedom, equality, justice, the rule of law, patriotism, dedication, integrity and friendship as advocated in the contemporary 4812 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Chinese core values, and the core values of non-Western countries are nonetheless seldom discussed unless they overlap with the core values of the Western countries. Under such subtle influence, values of the West have become universal values, whereas the core values of our own country and nation have been drowned out.

As pointed out by EDB, the current LS curriculum is open and flexible, and can easily be misinterpreted by a minority of people. The Secretary has just mentioned various criticisms of it, including too much emphasis on discussion of current affairs and such discussions being too general due to students' lack of systematic knowledge; such discussions being polarized and too focused on political issues as a result of the backwash effect of the direction of question setting in the public examination; and misinterpretation of critical thinking as a readiness to challenge authority and criticize and object indiscriminately at the expense of the principle of adopting facts as the basis of careful thinking and judgment. After the curriculum has been implemented for more than a decade, problems relating to its content, teaching strategies and even assessment are getting worse. There is an urgent need to reform the subject.

Nonetheless, I am grateful and delighted to see the determination and efforts of the current-term Government to reform LS. In the Policy Address delivered in November last year, the Chief Executive proposed a reform of the LS subject. One day later, EDB formally announced that the subject would be reformed and renamed, IES would be removed, and the result of the public examination would be marked as "pass" or "fail".

EDB issued another circular memorandum again in February this year, stating that LS is no longer comprised of six modules but three themes, namely Hong Kong under "One Country, Two Systems", Our Country since Reform and Opening-up, and Interconnectedness and Interdependence of the Contemporary World. It is proposed that the public examination will include multiple choice questions whereas Part B will be data-response questions. There will be one paper instead of two, and extended-response questions will be removed. Education Convergence subsequently suggested renaming LS as "Nationals and Society" to strengthen national education, and encourage senior secondary school students to participate more in study tours to Mainland of China. In my view, many of the above mentioned proposals seek to put things right.

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President, I am very grateful to Ms Elizabeth QUAT for proposing the original motion today, and to Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung for proposing the amendments. They opine that the report presented by the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum earlier has completely failed to respond to community concerns, and the overly conservative recommendations put forth therein have also fallen short of the community expectations. They have therefore put forth a number of suggestions to thoroughly reform the LS subject. I give my support to the original motion and the two amendments proposed by the three Members today.

I so submit. Thank you, President.

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I very much understand that the original intention of introducing the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") as a compulsory subject back then was to broaden the horizon of students, as pointed out by Members when they mentioned the merits of the subject. I also understand that if the subject was not listed as a compulsory subject, students might not choose to study it, just like the case with Chinese History. Nevertheless, I consider it more appropriate to make Chinese History a compulsory subject. How can Chinese people not understand Chinese History? However, is it the best approach to force students to take Chinese History?

As I understand it, students taking the International Baccalaureate programme can also be admitted to universities in Hong Kong without studying LS, and many overseas universities even do not consider LS examination results. Under the circumstances, why should local schools include LS as a compulsory subject? I think that under the current four-year undergraduate university programme, students may take LS after entering universities. On the one hand, this will reduce the pressure of students in taking the university entrance examination. On the other hand, students will definitely have more time and space to study LS at universities. What is more, they may find it easier to absorb the relevant knowledge when they reach the age of entering university.

Thus, the Liberal Party and I have been advocating to change LS from a compulsory subject to an elective one. We also welcome the Education Bureau to change the grading of LS to "pass" and "fail", so as to reduce the pressure of students. However, there should be official teaching materials for the subject of LS, be it a compulsory or an elective subject.

4814 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

The subject of LS has all along been an extremely controversial subject, and there have been no official or even recognized teaching materials since its introduction. As a result, teachers are totally unregulated and can teach whatever they like, leaving students at a loss. Furthermore, since the compulsory examination questions for the LS subject in recent years were related to politics in Hong Kong, students had to involve themselves in political discussions for no reason other than to cope with the LS subject. For example, in 2019, students were asked to provide an analysis of the radical pan-democratic camp and the localist camp and discuss whether the Chief Executive could have political affiliation. What were students expected to learn from these politically biased questions? It is really beyond anyone's comprehension.

When examination questions involve politics, teachers will inevitably talk about politics in class. This begs the question of how to ensure that the teachers concerned will discuss politics in an unbiased manner. I do not deny that people may have different political stances, but teachers are teachers. They should teach students in an impartial and objective manner, instead of forcibly imposing their own political ideas on students who are mentally immature.

Thus, in recent years, I have been advocating the installation of CCTVs in classrooms to ensure that teachers will not deviate from the teaching materials, and to prove their innocence in case of disputes. Besides, parents can review the contents covered in class to help their children in revision. Enabling parents to understand what their children have learnt in class is good for both the teachers and school managements. I must remind parents, teachers and school managements that the purpose of installing CCTVs is not to monitor whether the schools are managed properly or whether the teachers are teaching according to the teaching materials. I would also like to tell parents that CCTVs are not installed to monitor their children's behaviour either. In fact, in my opinion, installing CCTVs will do all good and no harm, but will only help parents better understand and follow up on the learning progress of their children.

Furthermore, I agree that national education should be strengthened. At a time when China-Hong Kong relations have become increasingly closer, Hong Kong students, as Chinese people, should gain a deeper understanding of our country and its situation. After decades of reform and opening up, China has made huge economic, cultural and scientific achievements which students should know. Since frontline teachers have difficulties in teaching these topics, it is necessary for the authorities to enhance their study in these areas and provide them with more guidance and assistance.

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President, I reiterate that the Liberal Party supports thoroughly reforming the subject of LS; listing LS as an elective subject; producing official teaching materials and providing training for the teachers concerned. All these are vital to the setting of examination questions by the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority.

With these remarks, I support the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" moved by Ms Elizabeth QUAT and the amendments of Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung.

I so submit.

MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of Ms Elizabeth QUAT's motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies".

I have had doubts about the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") under the New Senior Secondary ("NSS") academic structure for more than a decade. When I was still studying in the United States ("US") in 2006, my Hong Kong schoolmates and I were deeply worried to know that the then Education and Manpower Bureau would introduce the LS subject. Noting that the LS subject had an extensive scope covering six modules, namely "Personal Development and Interpersonal Relationships", "Hong Kong Today", "Modern China", "Globalization", "Public Health" and "Energy Technology and the Environment", some of my schoolmates already doubted whether the students would end up having only a smattering of knowledge of this and that. They could tell from a glance that there would be practical difficulties in teaching the subject. How could a teacher be well versed in all the six modules? A huge gap in teaching quality was hence expected. Schools with ample resources can arrange their LS teachers to teach one module each, which is more beneficial to students. Yet, for under-resourced schools, would the teachers be asked to change subjects? Will there be one teacher who is well versed in all those six areas at the same time? From the practical teaching perspective alone, the introduction of the LS subject had aroused the grave concern of me and my schoolmates in US.

After I returned to Hong Kong and was elected as a Member, I have been writing to the Secretary for Education and the Chairman of the Legislative Council Panel on Education since 2009. Since Cyd HO chaired the Panel on Education, I have been writing … President, I am sorry, I am looking for my file 4816 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 which contains the letters I have written to the Education Bureau ("EDB") and members of the Panel on Education over the past 10 years or so. In those letters, I have queried how this subject should be taught and whether it could really help the students.

This subject originated from the education reform in 2000. The then Chairman of the Education Commission Antony LEUNG Kam-chung issued an education reform report on the NSS academic structure entitled "Learning for life, Learning through life", in which he criticized the traditional teaching methods. He said that previous emphasis on memorization was not good, and it was not right to ask students to memorize prescribed text, English vocabulary and the work of SHAKESPEARE. The report proposed the introduction of a new subject to arouse students' concern for society and interests in discussion, and even encourage their critical thinking. However, the previous translation of the term "critical thinking", i.e. "批判性思考", was inaccurate and outdated. Although I had raised this issue with the education officials concerned, namely Dr Catherine CHAN and Mr CHEUNG Kwok-wah, they simply refused to listen to me.

I have been insisting for years that the word "critical" does not carry multiple meanings and is not equivalent to "criticism". As EDB had all along translated one of the nine generic skills "critical thinking" as "批判性思考", this has led many secondary students to think that thinking must be critical and indirectly encouraged them to develop a rebellious mentality. Although EDB eventually took my advice and revised the translation of "critical thinking" to "明 辨性思考", serious damage has already been done before the revision was made.

I have another major doubt about the design of this subject. As a matter of fact, if we are to develop students' analytical and critical thinking skills as well as promote their concern for society, we do not necessarily have to design a subject with such an extensive scope covering six modules. Does the study of History mean that students do not care about society? Does the study of Chinese History mean that students do not care about society? Does the study of World History mean that students do not care about society? I majored in English Literature and there was no LS subject in my time. Don't I care about society? That assumption is thus completely wrong.

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The introduction of the LS subject has widened the gap between the rich and the poor because, as I said earlier, schools with ample resources are in a better position to enable students to properly learn the LS subject, whereas under-resourced schools would encounter numerous difficulties. The problem is even greater when it comes to the Independent Enquiry Study because less-resourced families cannot afford to collect massive data. Of the six modules, the most dissatisfying are certainly "Hong Kong Today" and "Modern China". In fact, the teaching of "Modern China" cannot be simplified into one of the six modules.

President, let me tell you how Civics is taught in US. American History is a compulsory subject for American students and has a large textbook. President, as you may be aware, textbooks are provided by schools in US and students may leave them at school after class. Yet, schools in Hong Kong are unable to do so as there is a lack of space for textbook storage. In US, History is made compulsory in most of the better high schools. In the first year of the four-year curriculum, students are required to take American History, which include history, geography, culture, tax system and law. This is how students learn about their country, and publishers cannot arbitrarily produce teaching materials.

In Hong Kong, the most ridiculous thing is that LS textbooks are not required to be submitted for review. I think this fully reflects the irresponsible attitude of EDB. While EDB clearly knows that there are many highly political and controversial issues concerning China in modern history, it keeps its hands off and allows the publishers to write whatever they like. As a result, the textbooks contain inaccurate exposition of the systems of our country and Hong Kong (e.g. separation of powers and the executive-led government). Teachers with ulterior motives thus seized the opportunity to provoke the young people in class (The buzzer sounded) … causing negative perceptions on our country among them.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mrs Regina IP, please stop speaking.

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank Ms Elizabeth QUAT for moving the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". In the "black-clad violence" in the second half of 2019, a large number of participants were university students, secondary students and even primary students. According to the statistics of the Police, among the 4818 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

10 000-plus arrestees, 20% were secondary and primary students; and more than 1 700 were minors. They have even revealed that, in some cases, students were led by teachers to participate in the activities. This shows that in recent years, the promotion of "Hong Kong independence", "self-determination", the idea of achieving justice by violating the law and local terrorism have been poisoning some young people, which caused an outcry among parents.

There are widespread doubts in society that the Liberal Studies ("LS") subject, a compulsory subject for senior secondary students, has deviated from the original intent of its introduction. Furthermore, morbid changes have taken place in teaching materials, teachers' qualifications and teaching methods, giving some teachers with ulterior motives the opportunity to take advantage of the grey areas in the curriculum to instill wrong values to and poison the younger generation. This has prompted some students who are mentally immature to commit acts that disrupt social order. Thus, I agree with Ms Elizabeth QUAT's series of proposals in the original motion that the Government should thoroughly reform the LS subject, tackle the problems at root, and guide young people to develop a correct understanding of the nation and outlook on life.

In fact, as early as 2019, our country stated in the section on Hong Kong and Macao of the Fourth Plenary Session of the 19th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China that there was a need to better educate the young people of Hong Kong about the Constitution, the Basic Law, the country's conditions, history and culture. I agree with Mr KWOK Wai-keung's proposal in his amendment that the part on National Education should be strengthened. This will help strengthen the sense of national identity among senior secondary students. I think there is a need for the Education Bureau ("EDB") to make use of this debate to enhance its plans to strengthen students' understanding of the Constitution and the Basic Law as well as cultivate their law-abiding attitude and sense of national identity. In addition, there is also a need to integrate the LS subject into the history and geography of China, and the various factors that have contributed to the rapid developments of our country in recent years. This would enable the comparison of pros and cons with other overseas economies and the making of objective analysis and critical judgments. Furthermore, more resources and manpower should be provided to help educational workers to organize different thematic exchange visits, through which students can gain first-hand experience, with a view to gradually increasing their interests in learning.

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(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

In order to assist students in applying textbook knowledge practically, I think we must first allow students to broaden their knowledge by learning beyond the classroom. EDB and school managements should provide additional support for schools to meet the needs of the LS curriculum. Mainland and overseas study tours should be organized regularly for senior secondary students first, and then gradually extended to junior secondary and primary students. Such exchanges with students or institutions of the Mainland or overseas will help broaden the horizons of teachers and students. We know that the SAR Government provides 100 000 exchange places each year, which should be enough for all secondary or primary students to go to the Mainland for an exchange for at least once. I think this kind of exchange visits will really help students understand more about the current situation of our country and enhance their sense of national identity. When the epidemic situation has improved, EDB should use this as a basis for gradually incorporating the teaching elements of the new LS curriculum, and slowly resuming and promoting student exchange visits to different parts of the Mainland so as to meet the comprehensive learning needs of students.

In mid-February, the Hong Kong Federation of Education Workers conducted a questionnaire survey of 263 LS subject teachers. It was found that 85% of the respondents expected EDB to provide resources and manpower to support the visits to the Mainland, and more than 70% expected EDB to provide clear guidelines so that schools can flexibly organize additional visits in their curriculum. According to the proposal, EDB should formulate clear guidelines for schools and regulate the tender requirements for travel agents or local land operators or agents organizing the visits, which include requiring the itinerary to include information about national education, people's livelihood or some basic conditions of the Mainland. Besides, tour guides of tour groups must be familiar with the historical and cultural backgrounds of the visits and should explain in more lively ways, so as to gradually enhance students' interests.

In relation to teachers' qualifications, I agree with Ms QUAT's proposal that it is necessary to review the training programmes for prospective teachers. Recently, EDB has updated the training requirements for newly-joined and promoted teachers, including the requirement of completing 30-hour core training each. The training covers such areas as site visits to the Greater Bay Area of the 4820 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Mainland, national and international education development, education policies and school administration, etc. All of these will help prospective and serving teachers better understand the development of our country and its education. We hope that when EDB coordinates these visits, it will ask the organizers to, in the light of the actual situation in Hong Kong and the Mainland, help the participating teachers better understand the situation of our country and its people, compare the pros and cons of the Chinese and Western systems, as well as understand the development of the Mainland with a proper attitude. Only by ensuring the teaching standards of LS subject teachers can students be inspired to think positively.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the original motion and the various amendments.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Ms Elizabeth QUAT's motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". I am not an expert in education, but in recent years, more and more teachers and students in universities, secondary schools and even primary schools have been participating in unlawful violent activities, advocating "Hong Kong independence" inside and outside schools, as well as making hatred-inciting comments on the Internet against the Police, their own country and nation. I really cannot stand their acts. I think we must face up to the education problems in Hong Kong and carry out a reform.

Some people attributed the radical thinking and behaviour of senior secondary and tertiary students of Hong Kong in recent years to the introduction of the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") in 2009, saying that its curriculum design, teaching materials, teaching methods and assessment system may easily lead youngsters who are mentally immature to become more rebellious and radical. Quite a number of previous complaints and cases showed that some teachers with malicious intentions committed professional misconduct by instilling in students, through the LS subject, fallacious and unlawful ideas, such as the ideas of achieving justice by violating the law, "Hong Kong independence" and self-determination.

I did submit views during the public consultation on the LS subject in 2019, pointing out that leaving aside the aforesaid political and human factors, the LS subject itself has quite a number of institutional and design problems in terms LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4821 of contents and teaching methods, e.g. the content and scope of the curriculum being too wide, too broad and too deep, thus making it difficult for teachers to teach and painful for students to learn. Besides, in the absence of clear scope, standardized teaching materials and objective assessment, people find it confusing and may easily be influenced by subjective factors.

The aforesaid problems have not only rendered it impossible for students with limited learning abilities and weaker foundation to acquire the essential basic knowledge and positive values through the LS subject, but have also exacerbated the culture of indiscriminate criticisms, "bragging" and "condensed info-pack" among young people. In order to get good grades in the LS subject, which is a compulsory study and examination subject, more capable students often strategically give up certain course topics, especially the most extensive module of "Modern China", and only concentrate on local social and political issues that they can easily brag about. Besides, in order to concentrate on the four compulsory subjects, some students unnecessarily reduce the number of elective subjects, thereby causing a drop in student enrolment for some of the more specialized and practical subjects, which has in turn narrowed the students' knowledge base.

In the reform of the LS subject announced last month, the Education Bureau ("EDB") responded to a number of issues we raised, including reducing the scope of the curriculum, developing standardized teaching materials, strengthening the parts on national development and national identity, as well as encouraging and requiring students to go on Mainland visits. While these reform initiatives are in the right direction and worthy of support, EDB must ensure that the relevant measures will be fully implemented and will not be distorted and deformed again during their implementation at the school and teacher levels.

The original motion and the amendments call for the abolition of the LS subject as a compulsory subject that must be passed in public examination. Some people have even proposed the full abolition of the LS subject and the introduction of a new subject of civic education or national education. In this regard, I agree with EDB that this change may produce a ripple effect on the university admission procedure and even the recognition of DSE (Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination) and the New Senior Secondary academic structure both inside and outside the country, and that it is difficult to 4822 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 implement it in the short term. As to how the LS subject should be renamed after the reform, I think it is not very important; the most important is the specific content, effectiveness and quality of the subject.

Teachers' qualifications are of paramount importance to the quality and effectiveness of teaching. Good teachers can nurture good students even without textbooks, curriculum or examinations. If teachers have malicious intentions, lack professional conduct, qualities or competence and don't even know what the Opium War or Japan's invasion of China are, they will only mislead students and corrupt their minds even if good teaching materials and academic structure are available. Therefore, I support all the proposals in the original motion and the amendments on enhancing teachers' training and professional conduct, improving the mechanism for complaints and enhancing the accountability mechanism for schools.

Deputy President, at the meetings of the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference ("CPPCC") this year, I had put forward three proposals in my capacity as a CPPCC member, two of which are related to education, including enhancing teachers' training for patriotic education in Hong Kong's primary and secondary schools and strengthening a sense of national identity among young people in Hong Kong. While these issues may go beyond the scope of our discussion today, I will follow them up through other channels.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support the original motion and the two amendments.

MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" moved by Ms Elizabeth QUAT, and the amendments of Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung.

Deputy President, the knowledge points of Liberal Studies ("LS") in the New Senior Secondary curriculum are based on an integration of knowledge of different subjects to broaden students' analytical perspectives. However, since the knowledge points of the LS subject are based on sand dunes, it is now evident that after 10 years of implementation, most students have failed to systematically acquire knowledge and can only engage in hollow discussions. Thus, there are LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4823 voices in society calling for the abolition of the LS subject as a compulsory study and examination subject and the conduct of a thorough reform. I strongly support these proposals.

Comments on the LS subject in the past cover six major problems. First, the curriculum structure is unsystematic. Second, the learning target dilemma of being "specialized" and "generalized". Third, learning has become "arbitrarily generalized without being specialized", or merely for the sake of being "generalized". Fourth, inquiry-based learning often became too broad and general. Fifth, the learning content has excessively focused on political issues. Sixth, the assessment methods are unscientific and irrational. In the newspaper article written earlier by the principal of Scientia Secondary School, he quoted the above views expressed in relation to the article titled "A Critical Review on Curriculum Development of Liberal Studies in Hong Kong" in 2006.

In addressing these problems, I think the positioning and targets of the LS subject have to be more clearly expressed. First, it should target at developing a sense of national identity. As part of China, Hong Kong must support reforming the LS subject so as to strengthen Hong Kong students' identification with the Chinese culture and their sense of national identity; assist them in clearly understanding the relationship between Hong Kong and our country and the future development. Developing a sense of our national and cultural identity is the basis of strengthening young people's love for our country and our nation. If the LS subject can deepen students' understanding of our mother country, I believe it will certainly help to enhance their sense of national belonging and awareness of their national identity, as well as their recognition of the country's achievements and values. Thus, I support Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendment.

In the proposal set out in item (2) of his amendment, Mr KWOK mentioned strengthening the part on National Education to strengthen students' sense of national identity. I also support the proposals set out in item (4) of his amendment, i.e. increasing the number of training sessions for the learning of professional conduct; and the Education Bureau ("EDB") organizing regular Mainland visits and exchange activities for teachers to enable them to understand the developments of the country, so as to ensure that the subject knowledge and the teaching standards of both prospective and serving teachers of the LS subject are in line with the original intent of introducing the subject. I think this part has to be strengthened.

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Secondly, I consider it necessary to strengthen students' values and broaden their international perspectives. After the restructuring of the current LS curriculum, more emphasis would be placed on developing students' positive values and sense of national identity which I mentioned earlier. Emphasis would also be placed on the learning of our country's development, the Constitution, the Basic Law and the spirit of the rule of law, etc. In addition, under the general trend of globalization, it is equally important to cultivate an international perspective in students. I suggest that the LS subject should focus on making students understand the developments of Hong Kong, China and the world from various perspectives; cultivating an international perspective in them and increasing their competitiveness.

Thirdly, it is about the Recommended Textbook List and the relevant guidelines. Since the introduction of the LS subject, there has been no standardized teaching material and curriculum framework. Teachers can only rely on online information to prepare newspaper cuttings or guide students in their discussions. Some teachers may obtain information from news reports or provide news materials for students to conduct in-depth studies, but such teaching materials may sometimes instill biased ideas into students. Thus, I hope that EDB would definitely compile the Recommended Textbook List, while schools would be required to submit their selective reading lists to EDB for vetting and approval. In item (3) of the original motion, Ms Elizabeth QUAT also proposed the compilation of a recommended textbook list for the LS subject and the inclusion of textbooks under the existing textbook review mechanism.

In relation to teaching materials for kindergartens, primary and secondary schools, and the compilation of textbooks and teaching materials, there have been thorough discussions in the Legislative Council. Regarding school-based materials and lessons plans (including worksheets and examination questions), I hope that EDB will set up a database, be it Intranet or Internet. Such a database will enable schools to tailor teaching according to the varied abilities of students; enable students at different class levels to conduct systematic analysis, and allow parents to track and follow the direction and progress of teaching and learning. This proposal will not only facilitate monitoring by EDB and members of the public, but will also benefit the parents in many ways. Therefore, I hope EDB will take them into consideration.

Fourthly, it is about training, which I have already covered earlier on.

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Fifthly, it is about strengthening the self-evaluation of school managements. This proposal has my support and I hope that the internal quality assurance and accountability mechanism for school managements will also be strengthened as a result. We have repeatedly requested EDB to provide some internal information to increase parents' confidence in the mechanism for handling complaints against teachers if it is established, so that they know whether their children will have contact with the teachers being complained at school, or how the complaints against those teachers will be dealt with. I hope that EDB can provide more relevant information, e.g. the class or subject to which the teacher concerned is assigned, or a summary of the complaint, etc. I hope that complaints involving LS subject teachers will be effectively handled in this way.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I support Ms Elizabeth QUAT's original motion and all the amendments. Thank you.

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Ms Elizabeth QUAT's original motion and the amendments moved by Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung.

The subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") is a product of the "3-3-4" New Senior Secondary curriculum promulgated in 2009, which has been implemented for 12 years so far. However, never has the subject been reviewed or improved in a holistic or multi-faceted manner. I think this is unacceptable. The unlawful Occupy Central movement in 2014 should have given the Government some revelations and sounded an alarm to the authorities' belated awareness and laid-back attitude, but it was not until the occurrence of the disturbances arising from the proposed legislative amendments and the "black-clad violence" in the year before last that the Government suddenly realized how great the harms of the LS subject was. It then hastily rolled out a reform as a remedy. Eventually, the Education Bureau ("EDB") put forward a total of eight reform recommendations of various scales for the long-controversial senior secondary LS subject on 26 November last year. This was a response to the criticisms raised by different parties, such as the general public, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong ("DAB"), the education sector and parents, on the biased or politicized contents of the LS subject. The recommendations also seek to reduce examination pressure on students and cultivate positive values in them. I endorse and support them.

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The original intent of LS is to help students develop high-order thinking skills, the abilities of issue enquiry and analysis as well as critical thinking. However, given the overly extensive coverage of the LS curriculum and the absence of objective assessment standards, this in effect gave teachers enormous power and room to decide the content and approach of teaching, which has given rise to the problem of "one teacher, one teaching style". Even in the same school, different teachers would have different modes of teaching, thus rendering students at a loss as to what to do and unable to grasp neither the tricks to score high nor the focus of assessments. They even have to count heavily on luck when answering questions in public examinations. In order to obtain high scores, they have to answer and write in a way to the liking of the markers. Such practice is relatively unfair and must be reformed.

Deputy President, we are not sure if the LS subject has achieved its intended objectives, but the biased contents and mode of teaching seemed to have led students astray. According to the figures, more than 2 300 people were prosecuted amidst the wave of "black-clad violence", 429 of whom are minors of 18 years old or below. This has caused my heart to ache. May I ask why this group of young people would have developed such violent and radical tendencies to wantonly break the law? Is it not a problem with the LS subject? Some parents reflected to me that the teachers could decide on their own the videos to be played, the teaching materials to be used and the speakers to be invited in the LS lessons. This loophole must be plugged, otherwise teachers with ulterior motives would imbue students with radical political advocacies and a wrong concept of national identity by distorting the contents of the LS subject, thereby causing the young people to go farther and farther away and become radical.

Deputy President, during the past "black-clad violence" incidents, "black-clad men" always called for civil disobedience and achieving justice by violating the law. While this is mentioned in the theme "Rule of law and socio-political participation" under the module "Hong Kong Today" in the LS subject, the relevant part also touches on many positive values and behaviours. May I ask why the teachers have not taught their students to become law-abiding and community-caring citizens, but emphasized the breaking of law and achieving aspirations disregarding the rule of law?

DAB advocates the strict regulation of textbooks, teaching materials and the quality of teachers to ensure teaching quality and consistency. I agree to the proposal set out in item (3) of the original motion that the recommended textbook LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4827 list and textbooks for the LS subject should be submitted for review. Textbooks will be reviewed by EDB's textbook review panels according to its content, learning and teaching, structure and organization, language and textbook layout, etc. These panels will assess whether the contents comply with the official syllabuses and guidelines, so as to prevent the resurgence of biased and overly politicized contents. In this regard, I think EDB should properly play its gatekeeping role.

Apart from optimizing teaching materials, enhancing the training and education of teachers is equally important. Moreover, serving and prospective teachers are expected to master the contents and teaching methods of the new LS subject. In order to address the issue on teachers' quality and ethical conduct, a sound complaints mechanism must be established and the mechanism for internal quality assurance and accountability has to be strengthened as well. I believe all these will have to be achieved in the current reform.

Deputy President, I certainly understand the concerns of the education sector. Some criticized that the current LS subject reform has never gone through any consultation and deliberation, but I do not quite agree so. The Government set up the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum in 2017 to study, inter alia, ways to optimize the LS subject. Before submitting its final report, the Task Force had successively conducted more than 40 focus group meetings, over 20 meetings, a three-month public consultation and school briefing sessions within three years. EDB accepted the report and proposed some reform measures. It has even set up the Committee on the Renamed Subject to specifically consider the arrangements on curriculum and assessment again and consulted the sector. Despite so many studies conducted, the Government is still being criticized for having done nothing but only bogus consultation. I think people's eyes are discerning. I do have high hopes on the work of the Committee on the Renamed Subject, and hope that it can really make some arrangements to bring order out of chaos.

Deputy President, I think it is a matter of course that EDB proposed to strengthen the Constitution and Basic Law education in the new LS subject. I stress the need to take forward the reform as soon as possible; or else it will be difficult to get education back on the right track and foster civic awareness and patriotism among Hong Kong students.

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Deputy President, I reiterate again that I support Ms Elizabeth QUAT's original motion and the amendments moved by Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Deputy President, over 10 000 people were arrested during the "black-clad violence" and more than 4 000 of them were secondary or university students. The situation was shocking and worrying. Many believe this is caused by the problematic subject of Liberal Studies ("LS").

The LS subject is one of the core senior secondary subjects, and the original intent is to develop students' analytical skills and vision as well as enhance their understanding of Hong Kong, the country and the world. In order to enable the schools to teach in accordance with the social development and teaching conditions, the Education Bureau ("EDB") had not established any standards for teaching materials or provided any textbooks at the very beginning, and the teaching content was drawn up by schools and teachers. In fact, the LS subject has been subject to criticisms since its introduction. The curriculum is vague and students are under great pressure to learn. Given that political issues have become a heated topic in the community in recent years, the LS subject has also become politicized. Both the teaching content and examination questions are related to political issues, and some misbehaving teachers have even instilled into students the idea of "black-clad violence". The community finally sees clearly the various shortcomings of LS.

While I believe most LS subject teachers are professional and impartial, it is a proven fact that many teachers with political stances have led students to follow their political ideologies when teaching. The media had exposed time and again that teachers violated their professional conduct in the past. For instance, some teachers produced extremely biased teaching materials that advocated students' participation in civil disobedience, class boycotts and occupation, and praised students for what they did during the Occupy Central movement. Worse still, they vilified the Mainland and Hong Kong governments in a biased manner. Furthermore, during the "black-clad violence" the year before last, it was also revealed that some people who spread the message of hatred against the Police and China and supported "black-clad violence" were important figures in the LS system. This was really shocking!

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These teachers politically "brainwashed" the students to achieve their political goals. I was particularly saddened to see secondary students take to the streets wearing school uniforms. Now that the community has seen clearly the shortcomings of the LS subject, a reform should thus be carried out as soon as possible. EDB recently published a consultation document on optimizing the LS subject and proposed a number of changes, such as reorganizing the curriculum content; changing it from six modules to three themes; reducing the total lesson time from 250 hours to around 130 to 150 hours, and marking the public examinations as "attained" and "not attained" to reduce the pressure on students. The LS subject is currently a compulsory subject and the result will affect whether a student can enter universities. Given that the Independent Enquiry Study in the LS subject is similar to the research projects of universities, it is rather difficult for secondary students. It will thus be removed after the reform.

Therefore, this reform will greatly reduce the pressure of students in learning, which is good for students and their parents. The new LS subject will have specific learning focus and textbooks. According to the existing textbook review mechanism, the new LS textbooks will also be submitted for review. As a matter of fact, the establishment of learning focus can prevent teachers with political inclination from acting arbitrarily, whereas the submission of textbooks for review can prevent the existence of biased teaching materials. I think this is the right direction and can address the major shortcoming.

As the new LS subject contains the elements of national education, some considered it a disguised form of national education and strongly opposed it. What is wrong with national education? As pointed out by EDB, one of the targets of the curriculum is to cultivate students' quality as a member of the country and their sense of national identity. The curriculum allows students to have a foothold in Hong Kong and understand the future development of the country. This has always been the objective of primary and secondary education and is nothing new. EDB also pointed out that the new subject allows discussion of the merits of certain things as long as they are based on facts and rational analysis. It is actually basic knowledge, and only natural, for students to understand their own country and its history. Western countries also do so and there is no opposition at all.

The six modules of the LS subject include "Modern China", which also covers national education. It is just that we are not sure how the teachers have taught and what has been instilled in students such that the LS subject has developed to the present stage. Moreover, the new curriculum recommends that 4830 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 students should join study tours to the Mainland. I very much support this recommendation, and agree that it is best for students to pay more visits to big cities and even inland cities. Allowing the students to gain first-hand experience is better than saying a thousand words. After gaining first-hand experience and understanding the genuine situation of the country, students will not be deceived by others anymore. I think the duration of the visits should not be too short and multiple visits can be arranged for students so as to allow sufficient time for exchanges.

Deputy President, although some people think that the reform of the LS subject is not comprehensive, e.g. it has not yet been changed to a non-compulsory subject, I believe EDB led by the Secretary for Education has, in carrying out this reform, strived to balance the interests of various parties, which is worthy of commendation. Nevertheless, teachers still enjoy a lot of freedom under the new system. I hope teachers will understand that if they exert a bad influence on students, especially instilling in them the concepts that they do not need to abide by the law or can decide on their own what constitutes a draconian law, the students are more prone to break the law and go astray, thereby plunging their families into misery. In that case, such teachers will have committed heinous crimes. Hence, I hope that EDB will step up supervision to avoid students from being led astray by such teachers. In this way, the Secretary for Education would really do us a great service. Thank you, Deputy President.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): We are discussing the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". My position is simple enough. Instead of reforming the Liberal Studies ("LS") subject in the direction of this motion, it is better to directly remove it. A number of Members mentioned earlier that the LS subject was originally introduced to enable students to learn critical thinking and even discuss elements such as national identity or national education. However, it ended in a failure after a certain period of time, especially after the "3-3-4" education reform, due to a lack of thorough consideration in implementation.

I consider that the LS subject should be removed not only because of the outcome today, but because of my understanding of the nature of education. In the past decade or so, the Education Bureau ("EDB") or the Government has been making frequent changes in education policies, e.g. mother tongue teaching, multiple intelligences, related discussions before the "3-3-4" reform as well as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4831 trilingualism and biliteracy. I think we have always neglected one point, i.e. we all hope that students will have their own way of thinking. In addition to having the ability to acquire knowledge or using basic examinations or credit units as the only indicator, there are other more important components, including the cultivation of morality and other abilities.

In the past, we repeatedly focused our discussions on education policies and the relevant discussion takes place once every few years. Let us not discuss political topics or social movements for the time being as I always think that in the past decade or so, the greatest failure of the LS subject is the promotion of independent thinking or simple critical ability. There have been constant debates in the philosophy of education about how to understand the world and oneself, and how to accumulate understanding of the world. Is simply copying the western practice of encouraging independent thinking or critical ability tantamount to supporting the concept of multiple intelligences?

My stance is relatively conservative and I think that to some extent, spoon-fed education in the past was one of the ladders contributing to Hong Kong's success. In the absence of basic knowledge, critical thinking will only lead to utterly empty or hollow arguments. In recent years, it is very weird to me―pro-establishment Members have also mentioned that just now―that everyone seems to know how to make criticisms and express views. But is this the scientific critical thinking that we understand? Can scientific critical thinking be cultivated through the LS subject alone? I don't think so. In my opinion, the greatest mistake in introducing the LS subject back then was the belief that critical thinking skills could be cultivated through one single subject. This has given rise to a "pretty vain" ideology, or arguments for argument's sake.

I will leave aside politics for the time being and focus on the biggest failure of the nature of the subject, i.e. the failure to educate or cultivate students' basic logical thinking and ability of critical thinking, which are precisely the abilities intended to be cultivated through the Academic Aptitude Test at that time. It was considered back then that basic knowledge should not be mastered by memorization or in a spoon-feeding manner. Creativity or critical thinking should also be cultivated at the same time. As a result, most young people usually engaged in fairly "superficial" discussions without in-depth logical or critical thinking.

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Therefore, I think this subject should be removed because it has shattered the foundation of education established over the past few decades. Pro-establishment Members just now mentioned some political reasons, but instead of disguising the wicked deeds and implementing national education in a disguised form, I think it would be better to properly introduce the subject of patriotic education subject and make no pretence. I so submit.

MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I would like to thank Ms Elizabeth QUAT for proposing the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". In fact, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung and I previously conducted a questionnaire survey on the direction for reforming the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") and the findings had been published accordingly. We were told by many members of the public that the LS subject should be reformed drastically in order to rectify the situation. In response, the Education Bureau ("EDB") has, among others, changed the grading system of the LS subject to "pass" or "fail", with a view to changing certain arrangements of the subject. The motion proposed by Ms Elizabeth QUAT today has highlighted a number of key points, we can see that reform of the subject cannot be completed overnight and there is still a long way to go. Therefore, today, I would like to take this opportunity to suggest the direction that we hope EDB will take.

Regarding the LS subject, Mr KWOK Wai-keung highlighted the need to strengthen National Education and the sense of national identity in his amendment. I concur with his point, which is very important. Why was the LS subject beset by problems in the past period of time? To be honest, some of the teachers are unprofessional or even found to have misconducted. They made use of the subject to instill students with specious arguments, and "brainwash" them with messages of hatred towards the country. For instance, they led students to misunderstand their own country or even instilled wrong values in them. After those messages were delivered to and took root in students' mind, they provoked a series of social problems, including the "black-clad violence" incidents in 2019. Why did some students follow those misbehaving teachers to participate in the illegal protests or riots? This was because those teachers have been instilling students with specious arguments and swaying them to follow their way. I thus consider it important for us to first explain the correct reasoning.

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We should properly inculcate national education and national identity through the LS subject, so that students can understand their own country and learn how it has come to be. Deputy President, I would like to highlight one point that, in order to understand our country, some clarifications have to be made. As we all know, teachers used to overwhelmingly say that the Western political system was more superior when compared with that of China, whereas the Chinese political system was inferior. For a long period of time in the past, even our teachers accepted this notion. The reason of holding this view is simple. The Western society … Frankly speaking, the political system of China is different from that of the United States ("US"). Since US certainly wants to suppress China, it has many China hawks, including Michael PILLSBURY. His book entitled "The Hundred-Year Marathon", in which China was reproached, targeted and smeared from the beginning to the end, has been a bestseller in US. Please imagine, why would people who subscribe to his belief and keep reading this kind of information not follow his way?

As prospective teachers are particularly important in our education system, it is necessary for us to clarify some viewpoints and values. With regard to the previous education system, the values that I heard, saw and felt have placed lopsided emphasis on individual freedom and rights. People have seemingly forgotten that there were rights and obligations on the scale. In value education, there was no mention of individual's obligations and responsibilities towards society, or they have been put aside. Instead, only individual's rights and freedom were emphasized and magnified. People may not notice any problem in a peaceful society, but in the midst of major crisis, such as during an epidemic outbreak when the whole world faces the same challenge, we will realize that many people only care about their personal freedom and rights and refuse to adopt measures that can overcome the epidemic. The logic is as simple as this, but the Western countries are unable to do so.

Our society has all along been stressing individual freedom and rights. It has forgotten or deliberately ignored individual's responsibilities and obligations towards society, and there was no mention of even the most basic obligation to abide by the law either. When our next generation keeps receiving this kind of message, how can our society be stable?

Therefore, speaking of this long-term reform of the LS subject, I consider it necessary to correct the teachers' values as well as abandon previous arguments and reasoning. Some teachers consider it necessary to follow the Western 4834 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 political system, and emphasize individual freedom and rights only. They have completely ignored or intentionally disregarded individual's obligations and responsibilities towards society and the overall interests. If we stick to this old practice, students' hatred for the country will continue because China has not adopted the Western practice.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of today's motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". There have been endless controversies over the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") since it became one of the four compulsory subjects under the New Senior Secondary academic structure (commonly known as the "3-3-4" structure) in 2009. I trust that we are all very well aware of this.

Just now the Secretary also mentioned that the original intent of the LS subject is to help develop critical thinking skills. It seeks to nurture students' ability to think independently and critically from multiple perspectives, and replace the spoon-fed education that was under severe criticism in the past. I am sure Members would welcome this very much. But how effective has the LS subject been over the years? Not effective at all. Is reform of the subject necessary and warranted? Whenever we came to reform, some people in society would say that we should not point our fingers at education or blame the LS subject. Nor should we attribute students' participation in the previous violent confrontations to the LS subject, schools or teachers.

I would not equate LS with student radicalism. Nor do I consider the LS subject the only factor causing young people to take to the streets. On the question of how we should evaluate the LS subject, it has something to do with the people and things relating to the subject over the years. It is precisely these people and things that have distorted and deformed the subject after years of implementation.

Just now a number of Members have already mentioned the problem of people. Undeniably, problematic teachers do exist in the education sector and schools, and there is more than one. As we have seen in the past year or so, the Education Bureau ("EDB") found that some cases of professional misconduct of teachers were substantiated. All of them were supported by overwhelming LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4835 evidence and there is no room for denial. Is there any problematic or misbehaving teacher in the local education sector and schools? The answer is clearly in the affirmative.

However, what attitude did the school sponsoring bodies and school managements in the local education sector adopt after problems have arisen? They turned a blind eye to the problematic teachers and dared not touch on the problems. What about the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union ("PTU")? As we have seen in the past year or so, PTU and the former Member who represented the education sector in the Legislative Council―although he is no longer a Member, I still have to reproach him―had continued to harbour and shield teachers who were found misconducted, and played down the relevant problems. Whenever problems relating to teaching materials or misbehaving teachers were discussed in the Legislative Council in the past, there was always someone to obstruct the proceedings and render the meeting unable to proceed. I remember that this Council once formed a subcommittee relating to teaching materials, but it had likewise failed to elect the Chairman. These are the problems with people in the education sector in the past, which have enabled the misbehaving teachers to hide among a large crowd of good teachers. Whenever EDB sought to address the problems, PTU or the Member representing the education sector would create an antagonistic relationship between the Government and teachers, thus aggravating the problem of professional misconduct of teachers.

Having talked about the problems with people, what is the problem with things? It is about the textbooks for the LS subject. It is true that EDB has never vetted and approved any textbooks, and interpretation of the curriculum and development of the textbooks were left unchecked. Undoubtedly, EDB has not properly performed its gatekeeping role. As a result, the textbooks have been rife with errors for a long time. I believe many Members present at the meeting have, just like me, received lots of complaints from members of the public. In the numerous WhatsApp messages, emails and letters sent to us, there were problematic teaching materials, such as those about the Opium War which Members have mentioned earlier on. From this, we can see that teaching materials may cause students to form biased views. Besides, there were teaching materials stating that the rivers in China are dirty and muddy whereas those in Europe are clean and clear, and students were asked to compare and comment. It is incredulous that such teaching materials can be found in the schools of Hong Kong.

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In learning LS, students are expected to explore different kinds of information on their own. But is this practical and reasonable? Students obtained most of the information from their teachers, who did not only collect information from textbooks, but also from newspapers and social media. Nevertheless, as is known to all, information presented in social media and newspapers is often erroneous and biased. What will be the consequences if secondary school teachers use such information to explore controversial issues? The LS subject emphasizes the development of students' ability to think independently and critically from multiple perspectives, but this ability must be built on correct understanding. If even basic facts are not available, how on earth can students think independently and critically from multiple perspectives? This is why the LS subject has gone on the wrong track. The community and parents have given the education sector many opportunities to correct themselves over the years, but it has failed to do so.

Therefore, I consider it imperative to thoroughly reform the LS subject. I so submit.

MR MA FUNG-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, some Members have proposed the original motion and the amendments on the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") today. I believe this is closely related to the failure of the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum to make appropriate and decisive proposals on the reform of the LS subject. The main principle of the original motion and the amendments is to urge the Government to thoroughly reform the LS subject. I believe this is the consensus of the absolute majority of Members. The Education Bureau ("EDB") announced on 1 November last year its decision to reform the LS subject under the senior secondary curriculum. The change, though a belated one, has partly responded to the concerns of this Council and the community, and is worthy of recognition.

The original intent of the LS subject attaches great importance to nurturing students to become informed and responsible citizens with a sense of national identity, outstanding culture and global perspectives; respect pluralism of cultures and views, and become critical, rational, reflective and independent thinkers. The original intent is good, but in the course of implementation, the deficiencies in curriculum design, the quality of teaching materials, teachers' training and assessment methods had aroused endless criticisms in the community. Regrettably, the education authorities have always refused to thoroughly reform LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4837 the LS subject and introduced only minor patch-ups. Since they have ignored the far-reaching impact of the curriculum on students for more than a decade, the LS subject has gone astray all along. This is evidenced from the behaviour of some young people during the Occupy Central incident a few years ago and the social riots two years ago.

Principal TAI Hay-lap and Mr Antony LEUNG who strived to promote education reform two decades ago, and the then Chief Executive TUNG Chee-hwa who promoted the LS subject admitted that problems with the LS subject existed long time ago, but the Government had failed to address them in time. Now that EDB has finally decided to reform the LS subject, it must handle the matter more carefully and rigorously, and respond to the concerns of various sectors of the community so as to avoid repeated mistakes.

It has always been EDB's wishful thinking to emphasize that the LS subject must keep abreast of current affairs, and use diversified teaching resources in the absence of any textbook review mechanism. This has nonetheless ignored the possible loopholes, thereby leaving the quality of textbooks unregulated. As the voluntary submission mechanism has only been introduced in recent years, the contents of some textbooks are still biased and of varied quality. For example, textbooks of the module "Hong Kong Today" touch on extremely destructive topics, such as achieving justice by violating the law and civil disobedience. They only cited the views of one party without mentioning the stance and arguments of other parties. Another example is that the textbooks of the module "Modern China" contain many examples of national development, but they are fairly negative and biased. This reflects that the contents of the teaching materials are not comprehensive, objective or fair, which may have an adverse impact on students. Worse still, they have completely deviated from the original intent of introducing the LS subject.

EDB's proposal to require textbooks to be submitted for review and included in the Recommended Textbook List is a fundamental and important reform initiative. However, EDB should also study the regulation of school-based teaching materials and lesson plans to prevent misconducted teachers from propagating their political stance and views in teaching materials and lesson plans.

In addition, it has often been criticized that the topics of the LS subject are politically oriented. Apart from curriculum design, this also has something to do with the examination questions. The compulsory questions in the LS subject 4838 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 examination papers have placed heavy emphasis on highly controversial political issues, which make it difficult for students to answer. Some students may not be able to grasp the developments of the issues and thus cannot give down-to-earth answers. In order to get high scores, some students even try to speculate on the stance of the markers and then answer to their liking. This runs contrary to the original intent of the LS subject, and students can hardly be encouraged to analyze social issues in an unbiased manner from multiple perspectives. The original motion and the amendments propose to amend the curriculum to focus on teaching mature topics with a factual basis. I think this proposal is very appropriate. Of course, I am not saying that developing social incidents should not be discussed, but EDB should define more clearly the criteria and scope of discussion to ensure that teaching is comprehensive and unbiased.

As to whether the LS subject as a compulsory study and examination subject should be maintained, I think judging from the perspective of releasing students' pressure, there may not be sufficient reasons for it to be a compulsory examination subject. If there is no need to keep the subject compulsory, it is naturally unnecessary to include the score of the LS subject into the university admission system. Whether the subject of LS should remain as a compulsory study, depends on whether the contents and quality of the reformed LS subject is well worth becoming a compulsory subject. According to the reform as proposed by EDB, students should go on Mainland study tours and compile study reports, which will help them understand and experience the country. With proper implementation, there is nothing wrong to keep the subject compulsory.

Lastly, teacher training and complaints mechanism are also very crucial. As the LS subject has six modules, it is an impossible task to require each and every teacher to have sufficient knowledge to master all the contents. After the reform, serving teachers certainly need to receive training to adapt to the new curriculum, but EDB must also face up to the problem in training LS subject teachers, review afresh the training currently provided for prospective and serving teachers so as to improve their ethics, character and conduct, as well as ensure their professional conduct and teaching quality. In addition, EDB should also strengthen the supervisory roles of schools and establish a complaints mechanism. This would enable parents and students to lodge formal complaints against teachers who are found to have unscrupulous practices or committed misconduct, such that schools can properly follow up in a serious manner.

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Deputy President, it has been 23 years since the reunification of Hong Kong with China, but many young people's awareness of national identity and nationalism is still weak. Apart from the shortcomings of national education in Hong Kong, there are also errors in the implementation of the LS subject, thus students have failed to strengthen their awareness as responsible citizens with a sense of national identity. They are even misled by radical historical viewpoints, values and political views. The reform of the LS subject is an important step to set things right for our education system. EDB is duty-bound to strictly perform its gatekeeper's role and strengthen, through the reform of the LS subject, the education of young people in such aspects as the Constitution of China, the Basic Law of Hong Kong and national security, as well as guide and guard students to follow the right path.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support the original motion and the two amendments.

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, it has been 12 years since the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") was introduced in 2009. However, the subject's curriculum design as well as teaching and assessment have aroused grave public concern. Therefore, it is imperative and necessary to reform the subject.

I would like to look at the reasons for reform from several aspects. Firstly, the LS subject comprises six modules and covers a wide range of issues. Students need to spend most of their study time going through a huge amount of information. In addition to the LS subject, students are required to study other subjects and take part in various activities. At present, it is doubtful whether the current approach of teaching the LS subject is suitable for students, and whether the teaching objectives can be achieved. Let us not forget that the main teaching objective of the LS subject is to develop students' ability to think independently. If students need to waste considerable time on sorting out information, how can they find the time to ponder over the issues?

Secondly, students are prone to manipulation during the learning process. At present, given the lack of supervision and standards for the LS subject, there is heavy reliance on the quality of teachers. During the anti-national education incident in 2014 and the riots arising from the opposition to the proposed legislative amendments in 2019, some of the parents and media reports remarked 4840 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 that some teachers had taken advantage of their pedagogical authority to manipulate the discussion topics and learning content. For example, some of them used teaching materials which incited hatred against the Police, justified violence, vilified the country, distorted the history and promoted "Hong Kong independence", whereas others posted malicious comments on social media, cursing police officers and their families. To my astonishment, some of these teachers can still remain in their teaching posts. Will parents feel very worried if their children are put in the hands of teachers who have failed to uphold their professionalism and faith in education?

As stated in the Curriculum and Assessment Guide for Liberal Studies jointly prepared by the Curriculum Development Council and the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority in 2007, the development of positive values and attitudes is one of the important goals of the LS subject. The core values emphasized in moral and civic education (i.e. perseverance, respect for others, responsibility, national identity and commitment) throughout all key stages are also reinforced in the LS subject. Moreover, respect for the views of others and multiple perspectives are also developed so that students can make reasonable value judgments.

In fact, quite a number of parents relayed to me that their children were unhappy in school because they had different values from their teachers. As a result, they were ostracized by their classmates and were even given low marks by their teachers. All these were attributable to the teaching materials. Besides, there were also misconducted teachers who, by disseminating erroneous information or even distorted facts, brought their own political ideologies into the teaching materials.

There is no doubt at all that teachers must set a good example. If teachers did not lead by example but promoted their own stances and ideologies in class as well as severely slandered and ostracized people of divergent views, they had showed no respect for other people's values. Nor was the analysis made from their own stances and perspectives supported by objective facts and evidence. These teachers have only regarded the classrooms as a platform for promoting their ideologies and values. This is undoubtedly a selfish move and an abuse of power. What they did is entirely contrary to the core values emphasized in the teaching objectives, and corrupts the minds of students.

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As the Chinese saying goes, "it is better to travel ten thousand miles than to read ten thousand books". People who only acquire knowledge from books or adopt others views without obtaining any first-hand experience or information are just parrots, no matter how good they can think critically from multiple perspectives. Moreover, it is possible that some teachers or people who develop the teaching materials may not have visited the Mainland to see for themselves the developments of modern China in the past few years. In that case, the teaching materials may contain unverified information. If students have never been to the Mainland and have no knowledge of its developments, it will be hard for them to challenge the erroneous information. Therefore, I fully recognize the need to provide more opportunities for students to go on exchange tours to the Mainland and overseas in order to broaden their horizons. As the mentors of students, teachers should lead by example and visit the Mainland to see for themselves the developments of the country.

For the sake of growth of our future generations and protecting the reputation of Hong Kong's education, I support Ms Elizabeth QUAT's motion. The LS subject needs to be reformed and each of its components has to be reviewed. I also give my support to other amendments. I so submit.

MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I am thankful to Ms Elizabeth QUAT for moving the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". I am also thankful to Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung for making amendments to the motion. I support the views expressed by the aforesaid three Members.

Secretary YEUNG, I am not a member of the Panel on Education because I am not assigned by my party to take charge of this area. Nevertheless, in the face of the education problems in Hong Kong today, I often cannot help but speak at the Panel meetings even though I am not a member. Whenever colleagues present at the meetings touched on the problems of liberal studies or education, I would explode in rage and could not stop myself. What is happening in Hong Kong? I believe one of the most important problems is education.

Since 2009, the Government has included the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") as one of the four core subjects. What do the four core subjects mean? That is, if a student wants to attend a university in Hong Kong, he or she must 4842 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 obtain a pass in the LS subject, in addition to passes in , English Language and Mathematics. What is the LS subject actually? What is the assessment for the LS subject? Secretary, as I have said many times, I have been a volunteer for 30 years. Also, I have worked as a District Council member for more than 10 years since 2007, and this is my fifth year as a Legislative Council Member. Nevertheless, if I am asked about political issues, I dare not say my response must be correct. Then, what kind of teachers can schools hire to teach students about the knowledge in this respect? What textbooks should teachers use for teaching students? How should teachers teach so that the students can enter universities?

As everyone knows, there are currently many "monster parents" who start preparing their children to get into secondary schools or even universities when they are still in primary schools. Now that everyone talks about politics. I find this really weird as even primary students are criticizing and denouncing us. However, they have not yet studied history, which is tantamount to "learning to run before learning to walk". What is happening in Hong Kong? The whole story is wrong, and this is the reason why all Members are in such a rage. Only 11 years have passed since the introduction of the LS subject by the Government in 2009. Adding the time taken by the Government to prepare for the implementation of the subject, over 10 years had passed and more than one generation of people have fallen into such trap. If not, why are there so many students like Joshua WONG? They should study when they should be studying, right? As Mrs Regina IP has often said, they keep hurling criticisms at the Government; they only look at others' shortcomings but not their strengths; they harshly criticize the Mainland for its inadequacies and make an issue of them without looking at its merits.

Who set up these courses? What is the content of the LS teaching materials? The LS subject only glorifies the Occupy Central movement by offering praises to it. While pro-Hong Kong independence activist Billy FUNG has been promoting "Hong Kong independence" incessantly, teachers have been playing the relevant videos for students to watch and make comments. The Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union, on the other hand, has gone so far as to produce teaching materials by using 's political analysis, recommendations and articles. Benny TAI is precisely the main culprit who has harmed an innumerable number of people. Aren't there a group of people who have followed his steps and were put behind bars? It is precisely because LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4843 students in Hong Kong have read these textbooks that Hong Kong has degenerated into the present state over the past one-odd year. There must be a reason for everything, right?

Secretary, please pardon me for being that furious. I very much respect Secretary YEUNG. Since Secretary YEUNG took office, he has been working day and night in a progressive manner for the past year or so. He is one of the Secretaries who are under immense pressure. News reports often mentioned that he has two children studying abroad, and I can fully feel the pressure he is facing in his position. I am also very grateful to him, knowing that a lot of people have pointed their fingers at him in the past. However, his position is very important to Hong Kong and he must stand firm. We will also throw weight behind him because education is the lifeline of Hong Kong. As seen from news reports, waging war is not the only way to plunge a country into chaos. Another way is to undermine its culture and education, for example, a country will be ruined by driving its students and children to go astray. This is precisely what is happening in Hong Kong. In what position can those teachers teach students the subject of LS? Even people present in this Council dare not say that they can get full marks. This is why anger is flaring up in us.

The first emphasis of all emphases in Ms Elizabeth QUAT's motion is removing the LS subject as a compulsory subject. The Administration must consider ways to make the LS subject an elective subject if students like studying the subject. Some people like to go very special ways, so let them figure out their ways. If people do not even know history, it is tantamount to not knowing how to take the first step. Do they know how many years China had been bullied by others? How did Japan invade China and how many Chinese people were killed? Those two persons went so far as to mention "Sheen-na" in the Council because they had not even known the most basic fact. Hong Kong is part of China, and we are all Chinese people. Many people fled from the Mainland to Hong Kong back then. They had to seek refuge in Hong Kong because of the Japanese invasion of China. "Sheen-na" was how the Japanese called Chinese people at that time.

Secretary, I am not assigned by my party to take charge of the topic of today's motion. However, I am so furious that I cannot help saying something. In fact, those teachers do not have the competence to teach the LS subject, and it would be better to ask them to study history first. If they are so competent, they should be asked to run in the Legislative Council elections. The future of Hong 4844 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Kong lies in the hands of the youngsters and students, but since 2009 to the present 2021, many students have been using those lousy LS teaching materials. What is more, fake news is now floating around, not to mention the spreading of fake news during the "black-clad violence" incidents. In the news reports, many people wept in agony in an attempt to lure others to come out. However, all of these news were fake actually. How was the audience able to make a judgment? How could we not feel outraged? How could we not bombard the Government? Fortunately, last year, many police officers made clarifications incessantly and we weathered the storm together. If the National Security Law had not been implemented in time, all of us might have died.

I wish to reiterate that I very much support the Secretary, but I hope that he can fight on because his position is very important. He really has to seriously consider removing the LS subject as a core subject.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I would like to thank Ms Elizabeth QUAT for proposing the original motion, and Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung for proposing the amendments. There is no doubt that various sectors of the community are very much concerned about this subject.

In the latest Policy Address, Chief Executive Carrie LAM sternly emphasized "rectifying the previous deviation from the subject's objectives", and Secretary for Education Kevin YEUNG subsequently announced the direction and programme of the reform of the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS"). The authorities will streamline the LS subject; keep it a compulsory study and examination subject; mark assessments as "attained" or "not attained"; reorganize and reduce the curriculum content; remove the Independent Enquiry Study and review the Recommended Textbook List. Also, importance will be attached to cultivating the positive values and sense of national identity of students, as well as their learning about the Constitution, the Basic Law and the rule of law. Furthermore, Mainland study opportunities will be provided for students to gain first-hand understanding of our country and its development. This is undoubtedly an important step towards a comprehensive review of the LS subject, but it seems to have failed to fully meet the demands of the community.

While the SAR Government has invested a lot of resources in education, it is utterly regrettable that during the disturbances arising from the opposition to the proposed legislative amendment that swept across the territory in 2019, a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4845 large number of university and secondary students had been incited to take to the streets and take part in illegal "black-clad violence" which seriously breached public peace. Many of them had to assume legal responsibilities for crimes involving wounding, assault of police, criminal damage, arson, etc. This incident also exposed the various problems in the education sector, and the LS subject has become one of the focuses of attention of the community.

The LS subject was introduced in 2009 and the general entrance requirement for local undergraduate programmes at that time was levels "3-3-2-2" for the four core subjects of the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination, i.e. Chinese Language, English Language, Mathematics and LS. However, some universities have recently adjusted their admission requirements based on practical considerations to assess the four core subjects and two elective subjects together, which is analogous to reducing the weighting of the scores of the LS subject. Nevertheless, the senior secondary LS subject has long been criticized and a more notable reason is that the compilation of teaching materials and classroom teaching are basically given free reins without objective assessment criterion. The performance of some teachers can be regarded as professional misconduct. Some others with ulterior motives have wantonly used the LS subject as a platform to instill into students distorted values such as achieving justice by violating the law as well as promote radical ideas such as "Hong Kong independence". As the Chief Executive stressed in the Policy Address, "the role of the Government in education is not merely a provider of resources, but also a policy maker, administrator and regulator". It is really vital for the authorities to set things right as soon as possible and rectify the shortcomings of the LS subject.

Regarding how to reform the LS subject, in addition to revising the curriculum content and reducing lesson time, there are a lot of specific views in the community. It is hoped that we can start with optimizing various systems, e.g. requiring the inclusion of the textbooks of the LS subject in the existing textbook review mechanism, and requiring schools to upload their school-based materials and lessons plans onto the designated database for monitoring by the Education Bureau and the public; reviewing the training, assessment and complaints mechanisms for LS subject teachers to ensure that their subject knowledge, teaching standards and professional conduct meet the community's aspirations, as well as strengthening the system for cooperation and supervision established with the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority to ensure fairness and impartiality in such aspects as question-setting, question moderation and assessment.

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Furthermore, many members of the business and professional circles said that time has changed and we should make full use of the opportunities brought by the reform of the LS subject to further remove the LS subject from the core subjects. If senior secondary students are no longer required to take this compulsory study and examination subject, they will have more time to take the desired elective subjects and make choices conducive to their future development. One of the practical proposals is to strengthen education in STEM subjects, namely Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics.

Having entered the 21st century, the global community is in a new economic era driven by innovation and technology ("I&T"). In the face of the unprecedented impact of COVID-19, we rely on I&T to prevent and combat the epidemic, including the development of vaccines. The Central Government also strongly supports the cooperation between Hong Kong and Shenzhen in developing an international I&T hub in the Greater Bay Area. It is expected that investment in scientific research, I&T development opportunities and demand for technological talents will have to be increased in Hong Kong in the future. The Chief Executive announced the allocation of $2 billion for launching the five-year Global STEM Professorship Scheme to attract overseas research and development talents to Hong Kong. And yet, there is a stronger need to cultivate local talents. The SAR Government has vigorously promoted STEM education in recent years. In the 2018-2019 academic year, more than 35 000 students were taking STEM-related degree programmes offered by the tertiary institutions funded by the University Grants Committee, 16% higher than that of five years ago. The Financial Secretary also announced in 2019 that $40 million would be set aside to subsidize short-term internships for undergraduates and postgraduates taking STEM programmes in local universities. Around 700 employment places designated for I&T posts were provided under the Greater Bay Area Youth Employment Scheme launched earlier this year to encourage enterprises to recruit local university graduates to take up I&T posts and receive on-the-job training in Hong Kong and other cities in the Greater Bay Area, with a view to promoting I&T talent cultivation and exchanges.

Since the demand for young I&T talents in Hong Kong will only continue to increase, STEM education must be promoted and strengthened to cope with the growing trend so as to give students more space for subject selection and more development opportunities.

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With these remarks, Deputy President, I support the original motion and the amendments.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I support the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" proposed by Ms Elizabeth QUAT and the amendments proposed by two other Members, namely Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung.

I have high expectations of the Secretary and appreciate his willingness to take advice. Given his long service in the Education Bureau, he knows well about not only its operation but also some untouchable issues. Yet, he was willing to rise up to challenges and overcome them. So, before all else, I have to commend him for this.

Today, I have read from Apple Daily that in response to Mr Holden CHOW's question yesterday, the Secretary used the term … Many government officials and members of the community have described the incidents in 2019 as "black-clad mob unrest". To me, they were "black-clad mob unrest" or riots in less serious cases and a "colour revolution" in more serious cases. Therefore, I once asked the Secretary to stop referring them as "social incidents" because right is right, wrong is wrong. Yesterday, the Secretary used the term "social turmoil" and I truly appreciate that. This showed his willingness to take advice, and say what is right as right and denounce what is wrong as wrong.

Referring to the previous curriculum reform, we may draw the way forward for the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") based on its final conclusion. After some discussion, it was concluded that a comprehensive review was warranted given the problems such as unsatisfactory teachers' qualifications, unclear curriculum and the failure of students to understand the concepts of "critical thinking" and doing projects. The numerous other deficiencies would be expeditiously reviewed after the reform to bring more significant changes. However, before all these happen, the LS subject will remain a compulsory study and examination subject. I am not happy with this arrangement because the LS subject should be removed right away if it is wrong. Keeping it for an extra minute is too long.

This is the second time I praise Dr CHENG Chung-tai today. This morning, I praised him for his willingness to repent and correct himself. It is never too late to desist from the wrong. Although the speech made by him this 4848 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 morning still failed to make any sense, his attitude was back on track. If he does want to change, he still has a rough road ahead and he needs to adjust his mentality. Earlier on, he said, "What's the point of reform? Memorization is sometimes better as being critical is an abstractive concept. We had better implement national education and give up LS." I appreciate that he can make such an impromptu inspirational speech.

Speaking of national education, it seems that there are two things that the public still feel embarrassed to touch on, which were even taboos in the past. First, I remember that when I stood for the election in 2008, I was advised to avoid the "kiss of death", i.e. taking a pro-China stance. In 2008, Hong Kong had already reunified with the country for 11 years but some people still advised me to avoid "kiss of death" by not taking a pro-China stance. Second, don't talk about the Communist Party. In an interview with Commercial Radio, my successor Mr Ambrose LAM was asked, "President LAM, do you think that the Communist Party is very great?" He avoided this question for the first time by saying, "Let's not talk about that." When he was persuaded to give an answer for the second time, he eventually admitted the greatness of the Communist Party from the bottom of his heart. It can be said that he was immediately certified dead as more than 4 000 legal practitioners considered that he had committed a heinous crime.

Article 1 of the Constitution of the People's Republic of China ("the Constitution") reads, "The People's Republic of China is a socialist state governed by a people's democratic dictatorship that is led by the working class and based on an alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the fundamental system of the People's Republic of China. Leadership by the Communist Party of China is the defining feature of socialism with Chinese characteristics. It is prohibited for any organization or individual to damage the socialist system." In other words, overthrowing the Communist Party is in breach of Article 1 of the Constitution. In my opinion, if the teaching of LS has failed to get to the soul of the matter by highlighting the importance and learning of Article 1 of the Constitution, how can we become sensible people? Therefore, today, I would like to share one point with the Secretary, and that is, instead of learning LS, it is better to build up knowledge. Knowledge tells us who we are, where we are and what we do. We will not only become reasonable, but also knowledgeable. What on earth is the most pathetic thing? It is being a master of none.

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Today, I have read out Article 1 of Chapter 1 "General Principles" of the Constitution to the Secretary for it is the very soul of the Constitution. If anyone vows to overthrow the Communist Party in Hong Kong, I will tell him loud and clear that this is unlawful and unconstitutional. Why? Because "Leadership by the Communist Party of China is the defining feature of socialism with Chinese characteristics. It is prohibited for any organization or individual to damage the socialist system." These two sentences echo each other. Simply looking at the Constitution, we can tell the ultimate state our country will reach, and that is, "to build China into a great modern socialist country that is prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced, harmonious and beautiful, and realize the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation". This is much better than the teaching of any LS.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, my thanks go to Ms Elizabeth QUAT for proposing the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies". Today, I heard that many Members have particularly criticized teachers' qualifications and the systems. To be honest, I am quite reluctant to discuss the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") or matters relating to the education sector because "the stinking shit" therein had been covered up for years. It is, of course, thanks to none other than IP Kin-yuen, "the Demon of Education", and his "evil cult". With the protection conferred by the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance, Members may speak freely in the Legislative Council. Although he is not a Member anymore now, he should still be nailed on the pillar of shame in history for the sins he committed.

Just now Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan mentioned a type of sin in particular. Whenever we touched upon the interests of some teacher communities in the education sector, "the Demon" would invariably jump in front of the bullets for them and tell us not to touch upon their interests. Why? Because they were precisely the source of his votes. We have repeatedly discussed on various occasions the original intent of creating seats for the education sector in the Legislation Council, and that is, it is impossible to conduct meetings with students. I do not mean university students, but kindergarten, primary and secondary school students. They basically lack the ability to make high-level thinking and judgment on certain social matters, there is thus no reason to elect students to the Legislative Council. In that case, teachers who are most familiar 4850 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 with students were allowed to run for election. The source of votes of the relevant seats is precisely the serving teachers or those who hold teacher qualifications. As a result, the Member who takes the seat will speak for those who have voted for him, e.g. complaining about the small increase in salaries and the sizeable difference between the remuneration of primary and secondary school principals, and requesting an allocation of $3 million to each school for information technology projects. All he said was related to money.

Nonetheless, when it came to reform, he was reluctant to take any action. This is the same for everyone: who wants to change? Just imagine this: The life of the LS subject teachers is very easy and they can say anything in class. They may also randomly choose a couple of news articles from the so-called "Fruit Daily", and it does not matter even if the articles are politically biased. Some teachers have even given wrong information to students. For instance, earlier on, a teacher said that Britain started the Opium War because it wanted to destroy opium in China. In the past, teachers might talk through their hats because no one was there to supervise them. But recently, the implementation of online lessons has finally uncovered this bucket of "stinking shit" and confirmed our long-standing concern of the existence of evils in LS. Over the years, IP Kin-yuen had shielded this evil community in his capacity as a Member of the Legislative Council.

As Ms Elizabeth QUAT said in her opening speech, it is indeed true that not all teachers behave this way. While they only make up a part of the sector, the number is not small. Are there any righteous teachers? There are. But earlier on, one was smashed in the head, whereas another was surrounded and attacked after remarking on the relevant matters in school. He may even be given a very low grade in his end-of-year appraisal.

Should the Education Bureau ("EDB") be resolute and address these problems properly? Although the Secretary did an excellent job earlier, I still want to reproach him first. Why did he not propose any reform in the past years but is only willing to make such move amid the current political environment? Although the Secretary has only dismissed one or two teachers, he has attracted condemnation from "the Demon of Education" and criticism from the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union for making procedural errors. Yet, what is done is done. What is the point of talking so much nonsense? The incident happened before the eyes of many people. How can the teacher in question be exonerated on the ground of procedural errors, arguing that he had never said such thing as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4851

Britain started the Opium War to help China ban opium smoking? Despite the facts laid before them, they still tried to defend the teacher concerned by resorting to procedural grounds. From this, we can see how evil these people are. This is why I have to criticize the Secretary after praising him, because he has not done enough.

Let us take a look at EDB's vigour. Recently, EDB has not shown enough vigour as it backed off after slightly asserting its authority. For example, immediately after a COVID-19 outbreak at construction sites, the Government required that all construction workers should undergo compulsory testing before entering the sites. Also, those engaged in the catering industry are required to receive testing every two weeks before they are allowed to go to work. The so-called expert surnamed YUEN said that the air change rates of some restaurants were not up to standard, and required them to obtain the necessary certificate before resuming business. But how can these restaurants meet the requirement of having a minimum of six air changes per hour overnight? Will the SAR Government bear the relevant costs? Besides, in order to have full resumption of classes, schools must require all their teachers to take the tests, which is nonetheless not a mandatory requirement.

I cannot help thinking which matters more, the future of students or the freedom or selfish freedom of this group of teachers? Let us not talk about the LS subject for the moment but discuss what this community seeks to achieve and whether it has any aspirations for education and our future generations. I have doubts about these. When faced with such situation, should the Secretary for Education keep a tight rein? We are urging for full resumption of classes at all schools. Why does the Secretary not require all teachers to undergo testing or even arrange priority vaccinations for them? At present, vaccinations are voluntary. Anyone who does not want to receive a vaccine may opt not to do so. Yet, I am very disappointed that the authorities do not even conduct compulsory testing for them.

Secondly, with regard to students and the so-called social movements, which have been described as unrests in many government papers, just now Dr Junius HO was right in saying that these are indeed unrests. During the years from before the reunification to 2019, we had rarely taught the young generations about our history and culture. As a consequence, they had learnt from schools such ideas as long live the British Empire, Western ideologies are the greatest and Chinese systems are inferior. And yet, their parents at home think otherwise, which has led to family discord. How can they live in harmony?

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I want to cite one more example. During the days of the maritime civilization of the West, people only knew how to grow olive trees and had to obtain other daily necessities through trade. In contrast, people in our country lived by farming on our own soil. Thus, there used to be many pirates in foreign countries. Some people there have great respect for their eighth-generation ancestor who was a pirate being beaten to death. But in China, who would say that his ancestor from three generations ago was a bandit killed by the People's Liberation Army? Given the stark contrast in culture between us, has the subject of LS touched on the respective culture and history? It is precisely because of the absence of the relevant knowledge that has made the students so confused. The so-called critical thinking is no different from handing the guns for the students to play with, and such practice definitely needs to be changed (The buzzer sounded) … I am running out of time, and will speak again next time. Deputy President, I so submit.

MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I believe Members have waited very long for the motion debate today, hoping that the Liberal Studies ("LS") subject can be enhanced. In the motion, Ms Elizabeth QUAT has used the expression "morbid changes", which means changes that have completely deviated from the original intent and approach. Simply put, the subject has been completely corroded and rendered useless. If the proposal was to abolish the LS subject, I would certainly support it; but surely, I will also support the current proposal to merely remove the LS subject as a core subject.

In fact, many university programmes no longer consider students' examination results of the LS subject in their admission requirements. In other words, whether the Government abolishes the LS subject or not, examination results of the subject will not be considered for the purpose of admission to these university programmes. For instance, a university department had openly indicated that as it aimed to prepare students to become doctors, it attached the greatest importance to the results of such subjects as Biology, Chemistry, etc. If a candidate obtains an average result in Biology and an "A" in the LS subject; or a less than average result in Biology but average results in Physics and the LS subject, what will happen? "Buddy", the LS subject focuses on the debating skills of students, which are meaningless for the study of Medicine as it aims at training students to save lives. Thus, regardless of whether the LS subject is listed as a core subject, some universities have already adjusted their admission criteria. Today, we finally have the chance to discuss this issue.

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The question we have to consider is: Why did morbid changes take place in the LS subject, like a heterodox, if it is good? Let us think about it. Have morbid changes taken place only in the LS subject in Hong Kong's education system? Is the LS subject the only subject which morbid changes can possibly take place? Can morbid changes take place in other subjects as well? Why would anyone want to make morbid changes to the subject? Are there problems with the education system in Hong Kong that have made the subject more susceptible to morbid changes? These are the questions we have to consider.

I know that in the past six months or almost a year, the Secretary has been working very hard to tackle some thorny and long-standing problems. His work, which may have made many people unhappy, is done in the interest of our students and the next generation. The Secretary's work is hard but meaningful, and it has our full support.

Why are some subjects more susceptible to morbid changes, just as I said earlier? Perhaps the school-based system is to be blamed. Certainly, the school-based system has its advantages which I am not denying, but there are really problems. Schools manage everything on their own without supervision by the Education Bureau ("EDB"). While a school principal may have contact with the teachers every day, can he really achieve everything he wants to do? Can he really make policy decisions? Have the educational groups or school sponsoring bodies given the principal sufficient assistance or external support? If I were a school principal, I would not exercise strict supervision over my colleagues. To ensure successful completion of the syllabus, the principal does not have any strong incentive to supervise the teachers and prevent them from making morbid changes to the subjects. Even if the principal has the intention to prevent morbid changes, he may not be able to do so. The only assistance available to him is EDB. It is only if the requirements are issued by EDB can the principal have justifiable grounds to stop the teachers from doing certain things and hold them accountable in accordance with the relevant requirements. What is more, the teachers must be required to use the teaching materials produced for schools by EDB.

The school-based system is not an unregulated system. When there is a need for EDB to decide on something, it will do so and will not leave the system totally unregulated. Thus, school-based does not mean regulation-free, or regulation is not allowed or permissible. Some may describe EDB's management of school affairs as intervention, and consider it an attempt to 4854 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 impose restrictions that render the teachers unable to teach. This is, however, totally wrong. EDB is like a helmsman who guides the direction of the ship. If someone throws rocks to or forces the ship to deviate from its course, EDB is both empowered and obliged to steer the ship back on course. Thus, EDB should never use the school-based system as an excuse for leaving the schools unregulated.

Teachers are certainly responsible for the problems in Hong Kong's education. While we hope that good teachers can continue with their development, we must also consider why there are so many problems with our education system: Were the morbid changes attributable to a lack of management or the failure of teachers to obtain normal teaching materials? I think there is a need for EDB to provide teaching materials necessary for certain courses. There is also a need for the teaching materials to be submitted for review so as to provide recognized teaching materials. Some may say that if all students use the same set of teaching materials, then what they learn will be exactly the same. In fact, teachers can slightly modify the teaching materials, but this should be put on record. Teachers must never be allowed to arbitrarily provide disorganized and ridiculous articles for students to read without giving adequate guidance, as this may bring confusion and wrong ideas to them.

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

Through this motion, I hope that the authorities will examine from a long-term perspective whether morbid changes have taken place in other subjects, e.g. Chinese Language. Given that a significant amount of teaching materials of Chinese Language is obtained by the teachers themselves, are there any problems? I hope that EDB can conduct a comprehensive review so that students can be freed from morbid changes and brainwashing.

President, I so submit.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(Dr Pierre CHAN indicated his wish to speak)

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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Pierre CHAN, please speak.

DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): President, we are discussing the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" today. I manage to come back and speak after finishing my work in the hospital, and will vote altogether later.

I have deliberately looked up the Legislative Council paper issued in 2007 on the New Senior Secondary ("NSS") academic structure. It was the practice of the Government then to, when implementing any policies, tell members of the public or Members how good the policies were. After reading this old document, I noticed that time has changed and different reasons have been put forth. What was the situation back then?

Let me read out one of the paragraphs of LC Paper No. CB(2)1886/06-07(01) issued in 2007, "To enable schools and teachers to familiarize themselves with the NSS curriculum and to relieve them of the extra burden resulting from teachers who might have to prepare students for both the Hong Kong Advanced Level Examination and the new Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination, a strategic approach to implement School-based Assessment ("SBA") was endorsed by the Curriculum Development Council and the Public Examinations Board of the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority after consulting the sector. The implementation timeline was finalized in March 2007. In brief, SBA for 12 subjects (including those with SBA currently in the Hong Kong Certificate of Education Examination, Liberal Studies and the four science subjects) will be implemented in 2012".

I have also looked up another Legislative Council paper issued in 2009 for discussion by the Panel on Education on the NSS subject of Liberal Studies ("LS"). LC Paper No. CB(2)2122/08-09(01) mentioned the core subject status of the LS subject, in which paragraph 10 reads "Liberal Studies contributes directly to the attainment of the goals of the senior secondary curriculum. It aims to broaden students' knowledge and perspectives, help them connect knowledge and concepts across different disciplines and enhance their social awareness through the study of a wide range of issues that would impact on their lives in the future".

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My speech will be rather short. After going through these papers, I realized that there are different views on the LS subject at different times. The LS subject was considered to be very good at that time but the then officers-in-charge, the then Secretary for Education or the then Permanent Secretaries have been promoted or even made a fortune, and the situation is now different. No matter how the LS subject was promoted at that time, what we think is now different after a decade or so.

I trust that after discussions in the community and a series of incidents relating to the LS subject, the authorities have prepared to carry out a thorough reform. However, students and serving teachers of the LS subject are facing immense difficulties and pressure. I hope parents and students would understand that reform of the local education system will bring about major changes within a certain period of time, and they will be under great pressure and have to adapt themselves to these changes. I also hope that Members will show concern for the students and serving LS subject teachers who will soon experience very drastic changes. I so submit.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, you may now speak on the amendments. The time limit is five minutes.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank the 21 Members who have enthusiastically spoken on my motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies".

From what I heard, many Members support my proposal of removing the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") as a core subject and abolishing it as a compulsory study and examination subject. A number of Members even consider that the LS subject should no longer exist. I hope that after listening to Members' speeches, the Secretary will understand that so many years after the Government has left the LS subject unregulated and allowed teachers to teach the curriculum with textbooks that have not been reviewed in whatever way they like, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4857 politics have already infiltrated into school campuses. This has made many parents think that the LS subject is not worth keeping. I also heard that some Members consider it more worthwhile to list subjects promoting understanding of the country, Chinese History, STEM or other technology-related subjects as core subjects.

Today, I am very grateful to Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung for proposing their amendments, both of which I support.

Dr Priscilla LEUNG specially proposed that the LS subject should be removed not only as a compulsory core subject, but also a "must-pass" examination subject. I believe she realizes that the entrance requirements of universities do have a great impact on students. Thus, if the LS subject is no longer "a compulsory core and must-pass examination subject", its examination results will not be included as an entrance requirement of universities. I think this proposal is worthy of consideration. What is more, I know that at present, many universities do not attach any special weight to this subject anyway.

In addition, Dr LEUNG's amendment particularly mentioned the proposal "to eliminate the recurrence of LS subject teachers promoting biased and radical political advocacy by discussing social incidents which are still developing". I strongly agree with it. I believe that during this period of time, Members have noticed many problems of this sort and I myself have also received many such complaints. Some teachers with biased ideas have made use of their capacity as teachers to infiltrate into school campuses their own political advocacy or even radical and biased ideas such as achieving justice by violating the law, and we did see a lot of students act radically. Many parents told me that since their children had participated in unlawful activities during the "black-clad violence", they were worried that their children would become terrorists. During that period, many parents said that they had lost their sons and daughters overnight. Their sons and daughters, who used to be good kids, suddenly turned into rioters. Parents were taken by surprise and families were torn apart. These are things which we do not want to see again, thus I very much support Dr Priscilla LEUNG's amendment.

Mr KWOK Wai-keung, on the other hand, particularly mentioned that we should not allow "the LS subject to become a tool for people with ulterior motives to infiltrate politics into school campuses". His view is consistent with that of Dr Priscilla LEUNG, which is also the major viewpoint expressed by many Members who have spoken today. We should absolutely forbid infiltration of 4858 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 politics into school campuses. Besides, Mr KWOK Wai-keung also proposed "strengthening the part on National Education, so as to strengthen students' sense of national identity", which I think is the general consensus of many Members. However, can this be achieved simply by taking students to the Mainland to participate in exchange activities, as suggested by the Government? In my opinion, exchange activities should never be treated as tours. I hope that the exchange activities to be organized in the future will cover more specific and in-depth information, so that students can have a better understanding of the country's situation and a stronger sense of national identity.

The future development of the country is promising and we will soon become the largest economy in the world. While the future is full of development opportunities, we hope that Hong Kong students will understand from an early age that they can contribute to the development of the country, identify their own development pathways as well as contribute and shine in the development of the country.

Once again, I would like to thank all the Members who have spoken in support of my motion. I also hope that the Government will heed our voices and thoroughly reform the LS subject as soon as possible.

President, I so submit.

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, I would like to once again thank Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and other 19 Members who spoke today for their valuable opinions. Members' support for thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS") is also very much appreciated. In fact, we all hope that the reform of the LS subject, plus the monitoring of the quality of learning and teaching, can bring benefits to students by sieving out the inaccurate parts from the rest. The belief and recommendations of the Education Bureau ("EDB") point to the same direction as that of Members.

As highlighted in my opening speech, EDB has carefully considered different views from the community, including those from Members, and made full reference to the recommendations of the Task Force in identifying the main causes of the morbid changes of the LS subject in its implementation. Targeted reform measures will be introduced to put the subject back on the right track.

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The subject will be renamed after the reform. Moreover, following a reduction in curriculum content and lesson time, the mode of examination and assessment will be adjusted accordingly to change the examination-oriented approach in learning and teaching and alleviate the study pressure on students. Outside the classroom, there is an extensive breadth of learning. Students will be provided with Mainland exchange opportunities, which will not only broaden their horizons but also help strengthen their national identity.

Hong Kong is an inalienable part of our country. The school curriculum aims to cultivate in students the attributes of nationals and a sense of national identity and, through guiding students to learn different topics, enable them to gain a foothold in Hong Kong, understand the national development and develop a global perspective. All these deserve to be taken into account. The revamped curriculum will be in line with the rationale and curriculum aims of the current LS subject, centring around the three themes of Hong Kong, our country and the contemporary world (including Hong Kong under "One Country, Two Systems", Our Country since Reform and Opening-up, and Interconnectedness and Interdependence of the Contemporary World). It seeks to enable students to study comprehensively the Constitution, the Basic Law and the rule of law, as well as the roles and functions of Hong Kong in relation to our country, in order to deepen their understanding of the national development and the interconnectedness between the nation and Hong Kong. Through the study of the topics related to Hong Kong, our country and the contemporary world, students can develop a broad knowledge base and the competencies needed for the 21st century to become informed and responsible citizens with a sense of national and global identity, with a view to getting prepared for further study and work.

The Curriculum Development Council ("CDC") and the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority ("HKEAA") has already set up the Committee on the Renamed Subject to follow up on the curriculum change in, among others, curriculum content and detailed arrangements for public examination. The initial curriculum framework was announced in early February to collect views from the school sector. It is hoped that the relevant announcement can be made as soon as possible. On the other hand, EDB is working on the follow-ups on textbooks, teacher training, staff deployment of schools, etc.

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At present, EDB has put in place a rigorous textbook review mechanism to ensure that textbooks included in the Recommended Textbook List are in line with the curriculum, of good quality and fit for student learning. EDB will draw up a Recommended Textbook List for the revamped subject and put the textbooks to be used under the review mechanism. This List will play a gate-keeping role in ensuring the quality of textbooks so that their content is in line with the curriculum aims, objectives and learning focuses of the subject, as well as meeting the needs for learning, teaching and assessment.

EDB has strengthened the training for newly-joined teachers, serving teachers and teachers aspiring for promotion to include contents about professional conduct for teachers, the Constitution, the Basic Law and national security education, thereby equipping our professional team. Meanwhile, in order to facilitate the smooth implementation of the curriculum reform, EDB will organize a new series of teacher professional development programmes to give teachers a more accurate grasp of the rationale, aims as well as learning and teaching strategies of the subject. We will continue to proactively develop diversified learning and teaching resources with elements of content knowledge, skills development and values education for teachers' reference and use.

As I pointed out in my opening speech, teacher establishment is basically computed according to the number of classes and the corresponding teacher-to-class ratio, therefore a reform of the subject will not reduce the overall number of teaching posts. Schools may flexibly deploy their teachers according to the principle of school-based management and their actual needs. EDB will maintain communication with school management to keep abreast of their needs and manpower deployment, thereby providing them with the relevant support.

Meanwhile, EDB will continue to work closely with CDC and HKEAA to carefully follow up on the changes in curriculum content and public assessment. HKEAA will also make reference to the recommendations made by EDB's task force set up to investigate the mechanism of the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination question paper setting of the History subject, so as to strengthen the involvement of senior staff members of HKEAA in monitoring the quality assurance measures, enhance the nomination process of Moderation Committee members and expand the pool of potential candidates from the school and tertiary sectors, and appoint curriculum officers from EDB as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4861 ex-officio members. Students who are currently studying senior secondary LS, i.e. the current Secondary Four and Secondary Five students, will continue their original assessment arrangements without being affected by the changes.

We will have in-depth communication with the universities and tertiary institutions to explore and implement the plan for linking up the revamped subject with the Joint University Programmes Admissions System ("JUPAS") and tertiary institution admissions. We will examine the feasibility of adopting the Level of "3-3-2" and "attained" in the four core subjects as the General Entrance Requirements for admission to local undergraduate programmes under JUPAS. The curriculum reform of the LS subject, which involves reorganizing and reducing its content, coupled with the arrangements made in the other three core subjects to free up space for student learning, will create space and time for students to take other elective subjects or Applied Learning courses, or engage in personal pursuits, with a view to promoting diversity learning.

Members are deeply concerned about the reform of the LS subject and hope that it can rectify the problem of deviations and safeguard students' welfare. EDB will in no case relax its review and supervision of the professional conduct of school teachers and the curriculum, and will continue to professionally perform the gate-keeping role to monitor the learning and teaching quality of the revamped subject from different angles, so as to ensure that the implementation of the subject dovetails with the curriculum aims and objectives. Should there be any deviations, EDB will surely follow up in a serious manner.

Under the principle of school-based management, the school management has the responsibility to understand and monitor the implementation of the curriculum of different subjects in the classroom, including the content and quality of school-based teaching materials and the effectiveness of classroom learning and teaching, etc., to ensure teachers can implement related curriculum and teach according to the curriculum aims and objectives. The EDB officers have always been seeking to monitor the quality of learning and teaching of schools through the channels of inspections, curriculum development visits, etc. They will also provide professional advice to promote the continuous development of schools. Should the quality of learning and teaching of subjects fall short of satisfaction, EDB will take follow-up actions in accordance with the established mechanism, including urging the incorporated management 4862 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 committee/school management committee to make improvement based on the inspection report, and encouraging the school to apply for school-based support services of EDB. If necessary, a follow-up inspection will be arranged to ensure that the school has implemented follow-up recommendations to improve the quality of learning and teaching of subjects.

While the growth of a tree takes a decade, the development of education takes a century. Curriculum development is likewise a process of continuous improvement and enhancement. I call on different sectors of society to understand and support EDB's decision to reform the LS subject, and allow room for CDC and HKEAA to discuss the implementation details based on the principle of "Led by Professionals". We are deeply disappointed to see certain education organizations and individuals wantonly attack the reform and ignore the efforts of the Task Force and CDC without knowing the full picture. They have also tried to mislead the community and the sector, showing no respect for the curriculum and the established examination and assessment mechanism. They have even attempted to, bypassing certain mechanisms, exert pressure and keep casting aspersions openly. I hope that people from all walks of life, especially our education counterparts, will give priority to the students' well-being and support the reform of the LS subject so as to get students' learning back on the right track. EDB will announce the arrangements to the community and the school sector as soon as practicable after they have been confirmed. We hope that the entire education sector can cooperate and implement the revamped subject at Secondary Four in the next school year so that students can be nurtured to become talents who are socially responsible and equipped with a sense of national identity, love for Hong Kong and international perspectives, whereas education can be meet the needs of the times and maintain the competitiveness of our young people.

I would like to once again thank all Members who have spoken today. They did not limit their discussion to the LS subject, but also gave views on many other education issues. There is no doubt that EDB will fully and carefully consider Members' views in promoting the relevant policies.

President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4863

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Dr Priscilla LEUNG to move an amendment.

DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move my amendment.

The amendment moved by Dr Priscilla LEUNG (See the marked-up version at Annex 2)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Dr Priscilla LEUNG be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Dr CHENG Chung-tai rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

4864 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Dr Pierre CHAN voted against the amendment.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Dr Junius HO, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan and Mr Vincent CHENG voted for the amendment.

Dr CHENG Chung-tai voted against the amendment.

Mr Paul TSE abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, 22 were in favour of the amendment and 1 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 17 were present, 15 were in favour of the amendment, 1 against it and 1 abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4865

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, I move that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the motion on "Thoroughly reforming the subject of Liberal Studies" or any amendments thereto, this Council do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ms Starry LEE be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections.

I declare the motion passed.

I order that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the motion concerned or any amendments thereto, this Council do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWOK Wai-keung, as Dr Priscilla LEUNG's amendment has been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

4866 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move my revised amendment.

The revised amendment moved by Mr KWOK Wai-keung (See the marked-up version at Annex 3)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That Mr KWOK Wai-keung's revised amendment be passed.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, do I still have three minutes of speaking time?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Dr CHENG Chung-tai rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4867

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Dr Pierre CHAN voted against the amendment.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Paul TSE, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Dr Junius HO, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan and Mr Vincent CHENG voted for the amendment.

Dr CHENG Chung-tai voted against the amendment.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, 22 were in favour of the amendment and 1 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 17 were present, 16 were in favour of the amendment and 1 against it. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

4868 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, you still have 1 minute 30 seconds to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, in fact, the Government has taken the right step in reforming the subject of Liberal Studies ("LS"). We hope that when the Government subsequently puts in place the implementation details, it will genuinely play the gate-keeping role so as to convince us that the LS subject, after being renamed―whatever the name is―will achieve what the Secretary undertook just now. Nevertheless, we still consider that the current reform proposed by the Bureau lacks thoroughness. We hope that the Secretary will seriously consider the proposals we put forward today.

President, I so submit.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ms Elizabeth QUAT, as amended by Dr Priscilla LEUNG and Mr KWOK Wai-keung, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Dr CHENG Chung-tai rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG Chung-tai has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4869

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr LAU Kwok-fan, Mr Kenneth LAU and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion as amended.

Dr Pierre CHAN voted against the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr Paul TSE, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Ms Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Dr Junius HO, Mr Wilson OR, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan and Mr Vincent CHENG voted for the motion as amended.

Dr CHENG Chung-tai voted against the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present, 22 were in favour of the motion as amended and 1 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 17 were present, 16 were in favour of the motion as amended and 1 against it. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the motion as amended was passed.

4870 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

NEXT MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now adjourn the Council. The Council will resume for holding the Chief Executive's Question and Answer Session at 10:30 am on Thursday, 8 April 2021.

Adjourned accordingly at 6:05 pm.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4871

Annex 1

The marked-up version of the amendment moved by Mr Steven HO (Translation)

That as the Government lacks a long-term and comprehensive rural development policy in the process of developing the New Territories, rural areas have failed to strike a balance between development and conservation, resulting in ever-increasing conflicts and confrontations between urban and rural areas, rural stakeholders thus have to bear heavy costs for the development; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to formulate a comprehensive rural development policy covering such areas as rural living environment, infrastructure support, promoting the culture and traditional customs of the New Territories and boosting the economy, so as to meet the livelihood needs of people's livelihood and industries in rural areas and implement a sustainable development strategy for the New Territories, thereby achieving urban-rural symbiosis, and alleviating the impact of rural development on these stakeholders; specific proposals are as follows:

(1) proactively allocating resources to supply perfect the infrastructure in rural areas, including strengthening the management of natural river courses and drainage channels in rural areas to prevent flooding; supplying fresh water, electricity and sewerage systems to remote villages; carrying out road construction projects of roads and railways and enhancing public pier facilities, and building public toilets at suitable locations to increase the flow of people and goods; and facilitating agricultural rehabilitation in villages, promoting the development of home-stay lodging, leisure agriculture and fisheries and eco-tourism and as well as developing sharing economy, so as to revive remote villages;

(2) actively and expeditiously considering relaxing the frontier closed area restriction of Sha Tau Kok ('STK') Town and opening up the STK public pier to facilitate public access to STK and peripheral islands such as Kat O and Ap Chau; and at the same time studying the feasibility of allowing recreational fishing in the marine fish culture zone in STK and listening to public views on the study, with a view to promoting leisure tourism and leisure agriculture and 4872 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

fisheries, thereby revitalizing these districts, diversifying their economic development and improving the local economy and employment situation;

(3) making optimal use of innovative technology to progressively promote the development of 'smart rural areas', including expediting the roll-out of fibre-based networks and rolling out 5G mobile network system in rural areas to increase Internet access speeds in villages; setting up smart recycling system pilot sites in villages to collect recyclables at designated time and locations; establishing a smart rural refuse collection system, flexibly deploying the manpower for refuse collection and making flexible use of technology to improve environmental hygiene; extending the use of intelligent monitoring systems to rural areas to detect natural disasters such as hill fires, floods, thunderstorms and landslides, and to provide instant forecasts; setting up 'smart lampposts' in villages to improve the use of single two-lane carriageways in villages; progressively developing teleconsultation so that patients in villages with stable conditions who have to attend follow-up consultations can receive appropriate treatment; and

(4) setting up a 'rural development and construction fund' comprising five parts, namely 'infrastructure development', 'cultural heritage', 'rural tourism', 'nature conservation and land development' and 'emergency support', with a view to fostering sustainable rural development in a comprehensive and orderly manner, including promoting rural infrastructure, cultural heritage, eco-tourism and conservation, conserving building clusters with rural character (such as stilt houses at Tai O), as well as providing appropriate support should incidents affecting livelihood in rural areas occur; and

(5) conducting a study to amend outdated legislation and offering suitable spaces to support essential facilities affected by rural development, including relocation of vegetable depots, vegetable marketing co-operative societies and farms.

Note: Mr Steven HO's amendment is marked in bold and italic type or with deletion line.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4873

Annex 2

The marked-up version of the amendment moved by Dr Priscilla LEUNG (Translation)

That the subject of Liberal Studies ('LS') is one of the four core subjects under the New Senior Secondary curriculum implemented since 2009 and also a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students; yet, after years of implementing the LS subject in Hong Kong, morbid changes have taken place in areas such as its curriculum contents, assessment criteria and methods, teaching materials, teachers' qualifications and teaching viewpoints, which not only have deviated from the original intent of introducing the LS subject, but have even produced some opposite effects; at present, many senior secondary students have been deeply influenced by the morbid changes in the LS subject, and the subject curriculum has occupied so much of students' study time that their learning progress in other subjects have been affected, resulting in the complete loss of trust in the LS subject among quite a number of parents; despite the strong community demand for a thorough reform of the LS subject, the report recently presented by the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum has failed to respond to community concerns, and the overly conservative recommendations put forth by the Task Force have also fallen short of the community expectations; in this connection, with a view to enabling the new generation to cultivate proper values and the ability of critical thinking and to become youngsters with a sense of social responsibility, this Council urges the Government to thoroughly reform the LS subject; the relevant proposals include:

(1) removing the LS subject as a core subject and abolishing it as a compulsory study and must-pass examination subject required of senior secondary students, and ceasing to use attainment of level 2 or above in the LS subject in the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination as the minimum entrance requirement for subsidized undergraduate programmes;

(2) substantially amending its curriculum arrangements by reducing its coverage and lesson time, and placing more emphasis on teaching mature topics with a factual basis, so as to eliminate the recurrence of LS subject teachers promoting biased and radical political advocacy by discussing social incidents which are still developing;

4874 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

(3) compiling a recommended textbook list for the LS subject, including the textbooks in the existing textbook review mechanism, studying the feasibility of having the Government publish textbooks on the LS subject, and setting up a database on the LS subject with the requirement that schools must upload their school-based materials and lessons plans (including worksheets and examination questions) onto the database for monitoring by the Education Bureau and the public;

(4) reviewing the training programmes for prospective LS subject teachers and the Professional Development Programmes for serving LS subject teachers to ensure that the teaching standards of both prospective and serving teachers of the LS subject are in line with the original intent of introducing the subject;

(5) enhancing the self-evaluation, internal quality assurance and accountability mechanism for school managements and improving the existing mechanism for complaints against teachers, so as to guarantee the school-based quality of the LS subject and the effective handling of complaints involving LS subject teachers; and

(6) establishing with the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority a system for closer cooperation and supervision to ensure fairness and impartiality in various aspects such as examination paper setting, moderation and assessment, so as to bring the assessment of the LS subject in line with the original intent of introducing the subject.

Note: Dr Priscilla LEUNG's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4875

Annex 3

The marked-up version of the revised amendment moved by Mr KWOK Wai-keung (Translation)

That the subject of Liberal Studies ('LS') is one of the four core subjects under the New Senior Secondary curriculum implemented since 2009 and also a compulsory study and examination subject required of senior secondary students; yet, after years of implementing the LS subject in Hong Kong, morbid changes have taken place in areas such as its curriculum contents, assessment criteria and methods, teaching materials, teachers' qualifications and teaching viewpoints, which not only have deviated from the original intent of introducing the LS subject, but have even produced some opposite effects; at present, many senior secondary students have been deeply influenced by the morbid changes in the LS subject, and the subject curriculum has occupied so much of students' study time that their learning progress in other subjects have been affected, resulting in the complete loss of trust in the LS subject among quite a number of parents; despite the strong community demand for a thorough reform of the LS subject, the report recently presented by the Task Force on Review of School Curriculum has failed to respond to community concerns, and the overly conservative recommendations put forth by the Task Force have also fallen short of the community expectations; in this connection, with a view to enabling the new generation to cultivate proper values and the ability of critical thinking and to become youngsters with a sense of social responsibility, this Council urges the Government to thoroughly reform the LS subject; the relevant proposals include:

(1) removing the LS subject as a core subject and abolishing it as a compulsory study and must-pass examination subject required of senior secondary students, and ceasing to use attainment of level 2 or above in the LS subject in the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination as the minimum entrance requirement for subsidized undergraduate programmes;

(2) substantially amending its curriculum arrangements by reducing its coverage and lesson time, and placing more emphasis on teaching mature topics with a factual basis, so as to eliminate the recurrence of LS subject teachers promoting biased and radical political 4876 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021

advocacy by discussing social incidents which are still developing; and strengthening the part on National Education, so as to strengthen students' sense of national identity; also, to facilitate the teaching of the LS subject, the authorities should provide schools with additional support for implementing more diversified teaching methods and activities, including increasing the opportunities for students to go to the Mainland and overseas for exchanges and learning;

(3) compiling a recommended textbook list for the LS subject, including the textbooks in the existing textbook review mechanism, studying the feasibility of having the Government publish textbooks on the LS subject, and setting up a database on the LS subject with the requirement that schools must upload their school-based materials and lessons plans (including worksheets and examination questions) onto the database for monitoring by the Education Bureau and the public;

(4) reviewing the training programmes for prospective LS subject teachers and the Professional Development Programmes for serving LS subject teachers, including increasing the number of training sessions for the learning of professional conduct; and the Education Bureau organizing regular Mainland visits and exchange activities for teachers to enable them to understand the developments of the country, so as to ensure that the subject knowledge and the teaching standards of both prospective and serving teachers of the LS subject are in line with the original intent of introducing the subject;

(5) enhancing the self-evaluation, internal quality assurance and accountability mechanism for school managements and improving the existing system of teacher registration and mechanism for complaints against teachers, so as to guarantee the school-based quality of the LS subject and the effective handling of complaints involving LS subject teachers; and

(6) establishing with the Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority a system for closer cooperation and supervision to ensure fairness and impartiality in various aspects such as examination LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4877

paper setting, moderation and assessment, so as to bring the assessment of the LS subject in line with the original intent of introducing the subject; and

(7) helping the LS subject teachers affected by the removal of the LS subject as a core subject switch to teach other subjects.

Note: Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendment is marked in bold and italic type or with deletion line.