LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4649 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 25 March 2021 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. 4650 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4651 DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S., J.P. MEMBER ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION THE HONOURABLE CASPAR TSUI YING-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MR JACK CHAN JICK-CHI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS 4652 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MS MIRANDA HON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4653 MEMBERS' MOTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council continues to debate the proposed resolution under Article 75 of the Basic Law to amend the Rules of Procedure. Mrs Regina IP, please speak. PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER ARTICLE 75 OF THE BASIC LAW TO AMEND THE RULES OF PROCEDURE Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 24 March 2021 MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): President, good morning. I speak on behalf of the New People's Party to indicate our support for the proposal to amend the Rules of Procedure. The Rules of Procedure and the House Rules were first amended in the current term in Autumn 2017, and we now seek to follow up on the task and put forward the proposed amendments in question because after the amendment exercise in 2017, we have found that there are still a lot of loopholes in the Rules of Procedure, which have seriously affected the work efficiency of the Legislative Council and its Members, resulted in a lack of adequate power to deal with the situation when the Council is in serious chaos. The proposed amendments may be divided into eight groups, and they are the first batch of amendments that we have to deal with. It is absolutely necessary to expressly provide for the requirements under these amendments, such as "Proposal 1: Sanction against grossly disorderly conduct of Members". Why is it necessary to have the proposed sanction put in place? It is because the withdrawal sanction under Rule 45(2) of the Rules of Procedure is obviously inadequate indeed. For example, when I was the Chairman of the Bills Committee formed to study the legislative proposals relating to the co-location arrangement, there were always Members speaking loudly at their seats during meetings, and this was actually the same trick they played at other meetings. They kept using the excuse of invoking the Rules of Procedure, and spoke loudly in the attempt to interrupt our discussion. The chairman concerned did try to stop them but the efforts were to no avail, and they often returned to the meeting room soon after they were ordered to leave. There is thus a genuine need to 4654 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 introduce some enhanced measures in this respect, which have the full support of the New People's Party. As for "Proposal 2: Specifying time limits on debates in Council and adjusting the length of Members' speeches", there have been marked improvements in maintaining order in this legislature since the President assumed office, and you have tried to exercise time management during deliberation of many bills, such as the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link (Co-location) Bill and the National Anthem Bill which have left a particularly deep impression on me. When proper time management was not exercised in the past, the deliberation process of bills was often dragged on for too long, and this had given rise to very serious problems. I have looked up past records and can recall that after I was elected a Member of this Council in 2008, WONG Yuk-man and Albert CHAN jointly proposed to move 1 306 amendments of 2 464 pages in total to the Legislative Council (Amendment) Bill 2012 in May 2012, aiming to filibuster in an attempt to derail the voting on the proposed arrangements for filling vacancies in the Legislative Council. Moreover, LEUNG Kwok-hung requested a headcount frequently, thus causing the abortion of a number of meetings. It was not until 17 May that year that the then President of the Legislative Council invoked Rule 92 of the Rules of Procedure to bring an end to the debate which had lasted for 100 hours 23 minutes, and this is commonly described as "cutting off the filibuster". This move to cut off the filibuster had triggered a judicial review by LEUNG Kwok-hung, and the subsequent judgment handed down by the court had fully affirmed the power of the President to do so, stating clearly that instead of merely sitting here to preside at a Council meeting, the Member assuming the office of President has the responsibility and authority to manage Council businesses and the proceedings for conducting debates on a particular motion or bill, so that the relevant parliamentary procedures will go on in an orderly and efficient manner. Therefore, the President definitely has the power to specify a time limit on a debate held for the deliberation of a bill for the purpose of time management so that Members will speak in a concise and orderly manner. The New People's Party welcomes and supports the proposed amendments fully. According to the court judgment, although the judge has mentioned the principle of separation of powers, the purpose is to make it clear in the judgment that the court would not interfere with how the Legislative Council handles its internal LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 25 March 2021 4655 affairs. Hence, the proposed amendments comply fully with the Basic Law and the laws of Hong Kong. Besides, it is of course absolutely necessary to formulate such measures as "Proposal 3: Powers of the committee chairman in office to deal with normal business prior to the election of the committee chairman for a new session", as well as the revised arrangements concerning the election of a chairman for a new session. The saga of the election of the Chairman of the House Committee started in 2019, and as the Deputy Chairman presiding at the election, Dennis KWOK had delayed the process for months from October or November 2019 until May 2020 when the Chairman was finally elected after six or seven months of bickering. Meanwhile, the work of the House Committee had come to a complete halt, and given the backlog of bills, the work of the Legislative Council had also been paralysed. It is thus extremely necessary for us to plug this loophole, so that no one will be allowed to paralyse the work of the Legislative Council by abusing the existing rules. Regarding "Proposal 4: Fine-tuning the procedure for the adjournment of debate in the Council", its coverage is actually limited to certain motion debates only, such as resumption of debate adjourned under Rule 49B(2A), motions for the adjournment of the Council, etc. As the relevant rights are not unrestricted, we also consider the proposed amendments in this respect worth supporting.