Tuesday Volume 519 23 November 2010 No. 77

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 23 November 2010

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2010 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 147 23 NOVEMBER 2010 148

scrapped entirely. It is critical of the way they work, and House of Commons it is clear that they are not working as intended, but the Government are hoping to take a balanced view. We Tuesday 23 November 2010 must obviously protect the public against dangerous people and the risk of serious offences being committed on release. On the other hand, about 10% of the entire The House met at half-past Two o’clock prison population will be serving IPP sentences by 2015 at the present rate of progress, and we cannot keep piling up an ever-mounting number of people who are PRAYERS likely never to be released.

Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): Does the Secretary [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] of State accept that it is inherent in both life sentences and the concept of IPP sentences, which are widely supported throughout the Chamber, that many prisoners Oral Answers to Questions will be tariff-expired because the idea is that they are not released until it is judged that it is safe to do so? Does he also accept that although it is true that the precise construction of the clauses was inappropriate JUSTICE and led to some very short tariffs, since the changes that I introduced in 2008, the number of new IPP sentenced The Secretary of State was asked— prisoners has dropped by 50% from about 1,500 to under 1,000 a year? Would it not be far better for public Imprisonment for Public Protection safety to let that work through instead of prematurely releasing such prisoners? 1. John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): How many prisoners who have completed their tariff remain in prison for the Mr Clarke: No, it has always been the case that some purpose of public protection. [25560] people are held indeterminately, and certainly those on life sentences. The purpose of IPP sentences was to have The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice a sentence below a life sentence for dangerous people (Mr Kenneth Clarke): On 17 November 2010, 14,680 for whom life was not quite justified. The right hon. prisoners were serving an indeterminate sentence of Gentleman will accept that such sentences never worked imprisonment for public protection, or a life sentence in as intended, which is why, when he was Secretary of prisons or secure hospitals. Of those, 6,320 are held State, he introduced an Act of Parliament to try to beyond their tariff expiry date, excluding offenders who correct some of the mistakes that had been made. We have been recalled to custody following release. are now considering how the sentence works in practice, and we will introduce considered proposals in due course. John Mann: Those prisoners have been held in prison for good reasons and on good judgment. Does the Administration of Justice Secretary of State intend, as is rumoured throughout prisons, to reduce the number of such offenders in 2. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): What proposals prison? If so, how many sex offenders and violent he is considering to increase the level of efficiency in criminals will be released back into our communities? the administration of justice. [25561]

Mr Clarke: That rumour is probably on the hon. The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice Gentleman’s website where I have seen that he is telling (Nick Herbert): Following the spending review, the Ministry his constituents that I will release robbers, burglars, of Justice must make a total budgetary saving, including drug dealers and so on. Perhaps he will wait for the resource and capital spending, of 25% in real terms sentencing review, and stop living in a fantasy world. between 2010-11 and 2014-15. The indeterminate prison sentence has never worked as intended. The intention was that it would apply to a Guy Opperman: I remind the House of my former few hundred dangerous people who were not serving profession of barrister. Eleven years ago, the Labour life sentences. The number is piling up, and more than Government introduced the Woolf reforms, which changed 6,000 have gone beyond their tariff, but they will not all manners of process in the civil courts. What detailed simply be released. We will re-address the subject, and proposals does the Minister have for the same telephone we will not release all the people he keeps telling his case management in criminal work, particularly post-not constituents we will release. guilty pleas, and after-guilty pleas and sending matters for pre-sentence report? Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Will the Secretary of State look at the Prison Reform Trust’s Nick Herbert: We are certainly interested in improving report and specifically conduct a review of the social the efficiency of justice by looking at case management, and financial costs and benefits of IPP sentences, and and some encouraging pilots have been run in London, examine the available policy options set out by the trust? in which costs have been saved through integrated case management arrangements between the Crown Prosecution Mr Clarke: We are taking a balanced look at the Service and the police. We are also very interested in whole subject. The Prison Reform Trust takes quite the employing the greater use of technology, such as virtual opposite view to that of the hon. Member for Bassetlaw courts, and I would be very happy to talk to my hon. (John Mann). It believes that those sentences should be Friend about other ideas as well. 149 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 150

Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): In the offenders who are looked-after children. Typically, they name of so-called efficiency of justice, the Secretary of do not have the same support networks that other State has scrapped the post of chief coroner, a move young offenders have. Will the Minister now commit to widely condemned by organisations such as Inquest revisiting this issue to ensure that vulnerable young and the Royal British Legion. They point out that tens offenders are given the help and support that they need of thousands of people every year are forced to grapple to get their lives back on track? with the archaic, unaccountable coroners system, which needs the reforms promised by the Coroners and Justice Nick Herbert: I certainly agree with the hon. Lady Act 2009. The Minister said that scrapping the chief about the importance of providing such support. Last coroner was necessary to save money, but what assessment week, I visited Feltham young offenders institution has he made of the increased costs that will be incurred with the Mayor of London and saw how innovative through the greater use of judicial review, which is arrangements to provide greater support and counselling bound to result from this short-sighted decision? May I for young people had a considerably reduced the recidivism invite the Secretary of State or his Minister to put on rate on a particular wing in that institution. That shows record now exactly what the real cost will be of that that, with better rehabilitation, we can get better results. false efficiency? Or will he take this opportunity to I would be very happy to talk to the hon. Lady about any reverse that misguided proposal? specific ideas she might have for improving the system.

Nick Herbert: We do not think that this was a sustainable Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): Is it proposal, with set-up costs of £10 million and running any wonder that children in care do not have the necessary costs of £6 million a year. The important thing now is continuity of support once they are in custody, given to reform the coroners system appropriately to ensure that the full financial responsibility of local authorities the efficient administration of justice in this area. is lost at that point? Will the Government ensure that when such children in care are in custody, they are not Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): What out of sight, out of mind and off the financial books of steps are Ministers taking to ensure that savings do not the local authorities? simply become higher costs for other Departments or other parts of their own Department, whether in the Nick Herbert: It is important to ensure that the context of magistrates court closures, which adds to incentives are right, that we deter the inappropriate use police costs, or changes in the legal aid system that of custody for young people and that local authorities generate demand for expenditure elsewhere? Is there a are fully focused on what they need to do to reduce mechanism for assessing how costs will fall elsewhere? recidivism before the use of custody becomes important.

Nick Herbert: I agree with my right hon. Friend Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): The Minister about the importance of ensuring that what he describes will be aware that, according to a written ministerial does not happen, but he will know that there is significant statement today, the Omand review of the case of under-utilisation of magistrates courts. That is why we Jon Venables was released this morning. It is 114 pages have had to take this action in consulting about closure, long. Is he also aware that my constituent, Ralph Bulger, not least in relation to the Tynedale magistrates court, the father of James Bulger, and his brother Jimmy which is adjacent to his constituency in Northumberland Bulger knew nothing about the release of this report and which is operating at a utilisation rate of only about today until the media contacted them, asking for a two thirds. statement on what they thought would be in this 114-page document? Can he ensure that this kind of thing does National Offender Management Service not happen again?

3. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Nick Herbert: My understanding is that appropriate What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the arrangements should have been made, and that Mr Bulger support given by the National Offender Management was aware of the report but not its release. I shall of Service to children in young offender institutions who course look into the matter, and I am happy to talk to have been in care. [25562] the right hon. Gentleman about what went wrong, if something went wrong in this case. The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert): The National Offender Management Sentencing Policy Service has a responsibility to safeguard the welfare of all young people in custody, and all young offender 5. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What institutions are regularly inspected by Her Majesty’s recent progress he has made on reviewing his Department’s inspectorate of prisons. Revised guidance on the policy on unduly lenient sentences. [25564] responsibilities of local authorities to support young people leaving care is due to be published shortly by the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Department for Education. It will include a chapter (Mr Crispin Blunt): The powers of the Attorney-General dedicated to the responsibilities for supporting care and Solicitor-General to refer certain Crown court sentences leavers involved in the criminal justice system. to the Court of Appeal on the grounds of undue leniency are working well. Luciana Berger: I thank the Minister for that reply. I recently met representatives of the Liverpool Children Sarah Newton: I am particularly concerned with the in Care Council and heard young people expressing sentencing of people convicted of paedophilia and believe concern about the level of support given to young that the policy review should be based on evidence. 151 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 152

What assurance can the Minister provide that data that Prisoners (Voting Rights) the Ministry of Justice collects will separate crimes of paedophilia from all sexual offences as currently recorded? 6. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): Without that data it will be difficult to review the What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime appropriateness or otherwise of current sentencing policy. Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of making arrangements for the implementation of voting Mr Blunt: I can well understand my hon. Friend’s rights for prisoners. [25565] concern. All offences of sufficient seriousness to be tried only in the Crown court can be referred through 9. Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): the unduly lenient sentences process to the Attorney-General What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime or the Solicitor-General; and 17 of the 31 offences that Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of are triable either way and listed in statutory instrument making arrangements for the implementation of voting 2006/1116 refer to offences against children, which reflects rights for prisoners. [25568] how seriously the House takes the matter. 10. John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Speaker. What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime You will be aware that on three occasions over the past Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of two weeks the Secretary of State for Justice and the making arrangements for the implementation of voting Deputy Prime Minister’s deputy—the Parliamentary rights for prisoners. [25569] Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper)—have come to the Chamber and The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice essentially repeated from the Dispatch Box announcements (Mr Kenneth Clarke): Ministers are considering how to already made in the media. implement the judgment of the European Court of I want to ask the Minister about reports in this Human Rights, and when decisions have been taken, Sunday’s papers on the Department’s sentencing plans. they will be announced to the House in the usual way. The current Prime Minister in March, the Conservative party manifesto in April and the Secretary of State in Roberta Blackman-Woods: I am sure the Secretary of June all said words to the effect: “We will introduce a State is aware that prison staff already have to deal with system where the courts will specify minimum and requests for further information about how voting rights maximum sentences for certain offenders. These prisoners will be implemented—not only from prisoners, but from will only be able to leave jail after their minimum local communities who have grave concerns about the sentence is served by having earned their release, not matter. Will he meet a group of MPs for whom that is a simply by right.” Will the sentencing review ditch that particular concern, so that the needs of our constituents policy or keep it? might be considered?

Mr Blunt: I am afraid the shadow Secretary of State Mr Clarke: I will consider that request when we have will have to wait until we produce the policy. It is entirely announced our conclusions, which we will, to the House. appropriate that it be presented to the House first. The previous Government were incapable of taking a decision on the Hirst recommendation, which was made Sadiq Khan: It is outrageous that we have to buy The five years ago, and we are about to produce our proposals. Times and read The Daily Telegraph to see what the I would point out that remand prisoners already vote, Government are planning. That is not new politics, that and always have voted; they vote by post, and it has is not the way to do things, and the Secretary of State, never caused any difficulty. In the end, there is no who has been an MP for 40 years and served in three suggestion that prisoners are going to be registered in Cabinets, should know better. the prison at which they are Her Majesty’s guests. Those that bother to get registered will be registered in The Minister ducked the previous question, but he constituencies scattered across the country. Of course I and, indeed, the Secretary of State know that knife-crime will consider the logistics if, after we have produced our cases cause real and lasting misery to the victims, to proposals, it is apparent that any particular logistical bereaved families and to communities. Before the general problem will be posed. election and in their manifesto, the Conservatives were quite clear, because they said that Mr Bain: When the Secretary of State meets the “anyone convicted of a knife crime can expect to face a prison Deputy Prime Minister, will he pass on the grave disquiet sentence.” of the people of Glasgow that the 93 convicted sex We know what the press say their Government will do, offenders, 10 convicted murderers and 15 convicted but what will the Minister do in the sentencing review to attempted murderers in Barlinnie jail in my constituency be published next week? have not been exempted from the Government’s review on the right to vote? The Secretary of State knows that Mr Blunt: This may be slightly tedious, but I must say neither the European Court of Human Rights nor case again that the shadow Secretary of State will have to law from Strasbourg requires that such individuals should wait until the proposals are presented in a comprehensive have the right to vote, so why do the Government not fashion to the House. Of course, knife crime is an just do the right thing and rule it out? extremely serious offence, as we have acknowledged, but, as far as the precise proposals are concerned, the Mr Clarke: There is no suggestion—and there never right hon. Gentleman, like everyone else, will have to has been—that every prisoner is going to get the vote. It wait until they are presented in a coherent fashion to is not the Government’s consultation that is responsible, the House first, as is appropriate. but a judgment given five years ago by the European 153 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 154

Court of Human Rights—a Council of Europe institution Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): The —and we are now deciding how to implement it. I Hirst judgment says that article 3 of protocol 1 of the cannot anticipate the Government’s decision, which European convention on human rights obliges this House will be taken collectively by Ministers, but the idea that to give some prisoners the vote; as we have heard, it also lots of murderers and rapists in Barlinnie prison are all gives rise to financial compensation to some prisoners going to be given the vote is, I suspect, rather fanciful. who have been denied that right. Although I sympathise with my right hon. and learned Friend, does he accept John Woodcock: The Secretary of State must understand that there is an intellectual case for, in time, bringing the grave concern about this measure from the public and, powers back to Westminster in this area by repealing I hope, from both sides of the House. If the Secretary of the Human Rights Act 1998 and withdrawing from the State is clear that there is no suggestion that murderers European convention of human rights? and rapists will be given the vote, why will he not simply rule out at least those two categories right now? Mr Clarke: There has been another British case today, which has clarified the situation slightly and has underlined Mr Clarke: The principal consideration is to take a the fact that the Government have discretion on how to decision and present it to the House. I am trying to comply with their obligations. In due course, obviously, shoot down some of the fanciful ideas that have been we shall establish a commission on how best to give expressed. I understand the real concern about this: effect to our human rights obligations in this country, most of the House would have preferred not to change but that will not happen until at least next year. at all the existing ban on prisoners voting, but doing The coalition Government do not intend to withdraw nothing—the previous Government’s position—and from the European convention on human rights, which allowing solicitors to go running around prisons signing was imposed by the victorious British on the rest of up prisoners to get compensation for having their civil Europe after the war in order to establish British values liberties denied is piling up quite a bill. I can assure the across the countries that were recovering from fascism hon. Gentleman that Ministers will very soon resolve and was drafted largely by Sir David Maxwell Fyfe, any uncertainty. who put what he thought were the best principles of Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): But is there not British justice into it. a contradiction at the heart of the Government’s policy? Prison Places Currently, all Members of Parliament represent all prisoners living in prisons within their constituency, yet the Secretary of State has said that they will be represented by Members 7. Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): What steps he of the constituencies where they were last registered. is taking to increase the number of prison places. That contradiction needs to be resolved if representation [25566] of prisoners by prisoners is to be taken seriously. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Mr Clarke: I think there is some confusion in the (Mr Crispin Blunt): Our current plan is to build the House about the convention that applies, which both I prisons to which we are contractually committed. On and my hon. Friend should resolve—although it is not the basis of current policies, we expect prisoner numbers my responsibility to resolve it. I take the view that I to rise from about 85,393 last Friday to about 88,000 in represent my constituents when they are in prison wherever 2015, and we expect the implementation of the proposals it is that they are imprisoned, but I know that other that will be outlined in the forthcoming Green Paper to MPs take the view that they represent every resident of reduce that number to about 3,000 fewer than today’s a prison in their constituency. Perhaps we should resolve figure. We will always provide enough prison places for the parliamentary conventions on this matter at the those who the courts judge should receive a custodial same time as we have a look at which prisoners might sentence. have voting rights. Andrew Rosindell: Notwithstanding the Government’s Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): In efforts to stabilise the prison population, will the Minister considering the Government’s policy on this thorny assure us that those who commit crimes and deserve to issue, will the Secretary of State, if he has to abide by go to prison will continue to do so? the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights, restrict the right to vote to those prisoners at the lowest Mr Blunt: Yes. level of seriousness—for example, those dealt with by the magistrates courts for summary offences only? Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): The Minister will know that it is a basic human right for Mr Clarke: This applies only to prisoners—obviously, people to be incarcerated as near as possible to where people who have not been in prison do not lose their they reside. When will the Government comply with vote at all. We have to comply with the judgment of the that basic requirement by providing a prison facility for Court. The problem is that this extremely annoying north Wales, especially as we understand that Shrewsbury issue will become even more annoying to the public and prison is to be closed? Such a prison would serve the everyone else if we simply do nothing and wait until whole of mid-Wales as well as north Wales, and, as the some huge financial judgment is made against the taxpayer, Minister knows, its establishment is long overdue. which will turn the present public anger into fury. That is why we are going to bring forward considered proposals. Mr Blunt: I am not sure that I recognise that as a At the moment, someone not sent to prison does not basic human right, but it is certainly operationally lose their vote—irrespective of what other punishment sensible. Providing support for prisoners when they are they receive in their summary trial. incarcerated away from their families is an important 155 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 156 part of assisting their rehabilitation into society. However, such as varying leave to remain—for example, if a speculation about which prisons might or might not foreign student wants to change their visa to get permission close in future is not appropriate at this stage. We will to work instead, or, indeed, to stay here for longer. Such conduct a review of prison capacity in the light of the cases will no longer be at the taxpayer’s expense. Green Paper and the responses to it, and only at that stage— Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): One of the ways in which we can cut down on waste in the legal aid budget Mr Speaker: Order. I think that we have the drift of is to address no-shows by Home Office officials at the Minister’s answer. We are grateful. immigration hearings. Can the Minister tell me the number of cases in which Home Office representatives Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): Surely do not turn up to these hearings and the cost of that to the reoffending rate is a critical factor affecting the the legal aid bill, or will he write to me with that number of prison places that are required. Restorative information? justice programmes such as that of the Sycamore Tree foundation, which operates at Haverigg prison in Cumbria, Mr Djanogly: I will write to the right hon. Gentleman are both inexpensive and highly effective in reducing with that information, but I can tell him that it is an reoffending. What steps is the Minister taking to increase issue. Defendants’ representatives not turning up for the number of restorative justice programmes in Britain’s hearings is also an issue. prisons? Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): Responding to Lord Carter’s 2006 review of legal aid, the Minister Mr Blunt: I suggest to my hon. Friend that he can said it put very vulnerable individuals at risk, that look forward to the Green Paper with great interest. people were not being represented and that the structure was “being destroyed”, and he concluded: Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): According to the latest figures, more than half the “I would say it’s a meltdown.” prisons in England and Wales are officially overcrowded. Carter reduced the budget by about 5%, whereas the If the Minister is ultimately successful in reducing the current Government’s Green Paper cuts civil legal aid number of prisoners, what will his priority be—to close income by 42%. How would the Minister describe that? prisons or to reduce overcrowding? Mr Djanogly: The important point to make is that Mr Blunt: It is a bit rich for the right hon. Gentleman the last Government did, indeed, look at legal aid: they to ask that question. As a former Prisons Minister, he had more than 30 consultations over a five-year period, bears part of the responsibility for the level of overcrowding including Carter. The result of that was that providers that we have inherited. and those in receipt of legal aid were lost within the system and did not know where cuts were coming from, Sadly, the answer is that we are not in a position to and what we are doing now is putting forward a create enough prison places to be able to address the comprehensive review of legal aid, whereby providers problem of overcrowding. That will probably have to and all stakeholders will be able to see their position wait for more economically propitious times. It will take within the system—and as a result the consultation will us a while to get the economy into the shape that will be accurate. enable us to deal with the prison overcrowding that we have inherited. Mr Slaughter: Well, we can all make what we will of Legal Aid (Immigration Appeals) that, but the fact remains that more than half a million people who may have unfairly lost their job, their income, their right to decent housing or access to their children—or, 8. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) indeed, who may have been deported from the country, (Con): How much was spent on legal aid for cases in as the Minister has just said—will now go without respect of immigration appeals in the last 12 months. advice or representation, whereas criminal legal aid and [25567] some of the high-cost advocates earning more than £900,000 a year are largely untouched. The Secretary of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice State said in his statement on these measures that it was (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): In 2009-10, overall legal aid important to strike a balance. Does the Minister not expenditure on advice and representation in immigration think that the balance has been got wrong in this case? and asylum appeals was £85 million. I should, however, point out that it is not possible to identify expenditure Mr Djanogly: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the for initial advice separately from expenditure before the consultation document, which has clearly got a section immigration and asylum tribunal in cases in which both on very high-cost cases, and on which we have significant advice and representation are provided. proposals. More particularly, the Labour manifesto said it wanted to cut legal aid, so if he is going to talk about Mr Evennett: I thank the Minister for his response. our cuts, perhaps he might like to say where he would be Can he confirm that, under the coalition Government making cuts in legal aid. proposals, immigration cases will be taken out of the scope of legal aid? Miscarriages of Justice

Mr Djanogly: Yes, I can confirm to my hon. Friend 11. Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): that we are consulting on removing all immigration What recent discussions he has had on the provision of matters from the scope of legal aid, other than for those services to people who have experienced trauma as a in immigration detention. That means removing matters result of a miscarriage of justice. [25570] 157 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 158

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice will still be available for people who really need it and (Mr Crispin Blunt): We want to help people who have that worthy organisations such as Citizens Advice are suffered trauma as a result of a miscarriage of justice to valued by this Government? access support that ought already to be available, for instance through the national health service. We will Mr Djanogly: Yes, we are certainly very keen to work work with the Department of Health, other Departments with voluntary organisations such as Citizens Advice to and the voluntary sector to that end. ensure more efficient and focused provision of legal aid, and included in that will be our proposals for a civil law Katy Clark: I thank the Minister for that answer. I telephone gateway service. By refocusing legal aid we recently met the Miscarriages of Justice Organisation, aim to ensure that taxpayers’ money will be prioritised as constituents of mine have been affected by having to help the vulnerable receive the legal support that been wrongly imprisoned for lengthy periods. I understand they need. that under the previous Government, the Justice Ministry was looking at how better to provide support services to Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): The Secretary of such people. Is that work still going on, and will the State will know that proposals to close both the county Minister be willing to meet me and other Members with court and magistrates court in my town of Whitehaven constituents who have been similarly affected, because have been met with widespread anxiety and have been we are not dealing with this issue well enough at present? condemned by the local bench and local solicitors. Will he agree to meet us, so that he can learn at first hand Mr Blunt: I am afraid that we have concluded that, just how ruinous the proposals would be if enacted? due to the extremely challenging financial climate, it no longer makes sense to go ahead with the work started Mr Djanogly: The courts consultation closed in mid- by the last Government on identifying the unmet medical September. We have been examining the significant needs of those who have suffered a miscarriage of number of responses and will be reporting back to the justice because there are not going to be additional House on them before the new year. I am sure that the funds to meet those needs. representations that the hon. Gentleman has made on his local courts will be examined and, following our Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Despite that answer, decision, I would be happy to meet him. will the Minister still agree to meet those interested MPs, because in a previous answer he said the Government would ensure that services were available through the Offenders (Alcohol Dependency) NHS, whereas the fact is that they are not? These particular needs can best be met—and most effectively 13. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What recent and most cost-efficiently—by having a more discrete estimate he has made of the number of offenders with system, and it would pay the Minister and the Department an alcohol dependency. [25572] to meet these MPs and MOJO. 17. Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): What Mr Blunt: I am, of course, very happy to meet recent estimate he has made of the number of offenders parliamentary colleagues to discuss this issue. Meetings with an alcohol dependency. [25576] are due between Ministry of Justice officials and those in the Department of Health to see how matters can be The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice improved. I am sure that those discussions will be (Nick Herbert): In a survey carried out in 2005-06, improved by the knowledge that I will gain from colleagues, 23% of prisoners sentenced from one month to four so I am happy to have the meetings. years reported having drunk alcohol four weeks prior to custody and said that they would find it quite difficult Legal Aid or impossible to stop drinking. We also estimate that 37% of offenders subject to community orders have an 12. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): What alcohol-related problem linked to their offending and steps he plans to take to fulfil the aspiration in the their risk of reconviction. coalition agreement to increase the efficiency of the legal aid system. [25571] Nick Smith: I thank the Minister for that reply. Given that alcohol misuse is estimated to cost £7.3 billion in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice crime and antisocial behaviour, and that it was a factor (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): The consultation document in 18,000 incidents of violent crime in Wales in 2008, “Proposals for the Reform of Legal Aid in England and can he assure the House that help for prisoners with Wales”, published on 15 November, sets out proposals alcohol problems will be given the same priority as help to make the legal aid scheme more efficient. We looked for offenders with drug problems? from first principles at its scope, the eligibility rules, and the fees paid to lawyers and other providers of legal aid. Nick Herbert: It is important that alcohol problems We looked at alternative sources of funding, and we are are tackled, both among offenders given community also consulting on reducing administrative bureaucracy orders and those in custody. We know that treatment and making the system simpler to operate. for alcohol problems is cost-effective; the United Kingdom alcohol treatment trial found that for every pound spent Christopher Pincher: I am grateful to my hon. Friend on treating problem drinkers £5 is saved on costs to for that answer, but will he take this opportunity to health, social and criminal justice services. That is why, make it clear that the issues raised by Des Hudson of in the long term, providing such services on a payment- the Law Society are unfounded, that access to justice by-results basis is the answer. 159 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 160

Mrs Chapman: Given the undeniable link between sentences. I have no doubt that there is an important alcohol misuse and crime, does the Minister believe that role for community sentences, and we must make them someone’s being excessively drunk is seen as sufficiently more credible, more punitive and more effective—some aggravating by the courts when they pass sentence? of them already are. The important thing is that every case should receive the right sentence based on the facts Nick Herbert: We have not received any representations and the offender in order to protect the public. That will to the contrary. These matters can be considered by the be the underlying aim of the entire sentencing review. Sentencing Guidelines Council, and we believe that sufficient powers are available to the courts. The important Legal Aid (Clinical Negligence Cases) thing is that when offenders are sentenced they should receive adequate treatment—that applies both to community and jail sentences—so that addiction can be 15. Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): What dealt with. assessment he has made of the effects on the NHS of removing clinical negligence from the scope of legal Sentencing Policy aid. [25574] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice 14. Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): When he (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): Clinical negligence cases against expects to publish his proposals on the future of the NHS are funded approximately 50:50 between legal sentencing policy. [25573] aid and no win, no fee agreements with lawyers. We will be interested to understand through our consultation The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice the specific impact on the NHS of the removal of (Mr Kenneth Clarke): We intend to publish a Green clinical negligence cases from the scope of legal aid, Paper setting out proposals on sentencing and rehabilitation which should save some £17 million to legal aid. However, in December. we also estimate that our proposals to reform no win, no fee conditional fee agreements will save around Richard Harrington: On a recent visit to the Hertfordshire £50 million each year to the NHS in reduced legal costs. probation trust in Watford, I was impressed by the efforts it has made and the success it has achieved in Dr Wollaston: Could reducing legal aid for clinical reducing reoffending rates. The staff told me, in particular, negligence lead to an upsurge in no win, no fee deals of their view that short-term prison sentences were and an increase in the compensation culture? detrimental to those efforts. Will the Secretary of State come to Watford to meet them, so that he can share those experiences? Mr Djanogly: My hon. Friend is right to point out that changes in one area can have knock-on implications Mr Clarke: I am grateful for that invitation; I have in another area. It is important to point out that that is already received a letter. I shall do my best, although I precisely why we put out the legal aid consultation am not quite sure when I will get to visit the probation document on the same day as Sir Rupert Jackson’s trust. The Government are placing particular emphasis proposals on no win, no fee agreements. The two can be on rehabilitation and on reducing our quite appalling weighed up together and the consultation will therefore reoffending rates, as we have ever since my right hon. take a holistic approach. Friend the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice led for us on this matter in opposition. I accept that a Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): On legal aid, the great deal of good work is being done on the ground Minister has spoken today about working with voluntary now and obviously we will have to build on it. I quite sector organisations. Community Links’ welfare advice agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Watford service in my area has seen 9,000 people so far this year. (Richard Harrington) about the ineffectiveness of some It is very cost-effective and has been paid for until now short sentences, because nothing whatever is done when by legal aid. Under the Minister’s proposals, it will not people go out of the gate once they have finished their be in the future. How will that work be supported by the sentence, but I am quite clear that we cannot get rid of Government in the period ahead? all short-term sentences. I have always believed that for a certain number of cases no alternative is reasonably Mr Djanogly: People have the option of getting practical for magistrates. conditional fee agreements, also known as no win, no fee agreements. They can go to a lawyer and that lawyer Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): The crimes of child will take a view on the chances of success. The question abduction, gross indecency with children, sexual activity that must be asked—we will be very interested to hear with a child under 13, sexual assault of a female and the responses to it during the consultation—is whether, sexual assault of a male have all attracted custodial if the private sector is not prepared to take on the risk, sentences of six months or under in the past year. Will the public sector should be prepared to do so and what the Lord Chancellor give a commitment that under the proportion of that risk it will be prepared to take on. sentencing review none of those crimes will be subject to community-based sentences, as he has proposed Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Following my question potentially in comments that he has made to date? to my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice during his legal aid Mr Clarke: I have no idea why the heart of our statement, is there not a danger that, given the complexity sentencing reform is described by sections of the press of clinical negligence cases, the most vulnerable will not and some Members of Parliament as just getting rid of have access to no win, no fee simply because such all short-term sentences and replacing them with community companies will not offer their services to them? 161 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 162

Mr Djanogly: There will still be power to grant legal Mrs Chapman: Nineteen-year-old Scots Guardsman aid in exceptional cases where a CFA will not be available, Andrew Gibson was killed in a Darlington nightclub. although it will be restricted. The fact remains that Yesterday, the Attorney-General said that he was unable CFAs will still be available for people with no ability to to refer what many view as an excessively lenient sentence fund their cases so that they can take proceedings. of just two and a half years to the Court of Appeal. Will the Secretary of State undertake to investigate the Legal Aid (Family Law) awarding of lenient sentences in which alcohol is an aggravating factor? 16. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): What estimate he has made of the reduction in the number of Mr Clarke: The Attorney-General has a power to family law cases that will be eligible for legal aid during exercise in these cases and he has to exercise it in his the period of the comprehensive spending review. quasi-judicial role by making a proper judgment and [25575] not just reacting politically. I understand the hon. Lady’s concern about that case, but sentences are normally imposed by the court that has had the opportunity to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice hear all the evidence, facts and information about the (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): We estimate that removing accused person. The Attorney-General takes seriously from the scope of legal aid most private family law his responsibility to step in where a mistake seems to cases, except for those involving domestic violence, forced have been made and ask a higher court to consider marriage and international child abduction, would reduce imposing a more serious sentence. I cannot claim to the number of people receiving advice under the legal exercise any control over him in that regard; it is his aid scheme by about 211,000 annually and of those difficult judgment to take in each case. represented in court by just under 54,000 annually. Together, those figures represent an estimated annual saving of £178 million. However, we have also decided T2. [25586] Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): The to retain legal aid for mediation to help separating Lord Chancellor will be only too aware that one of his couples sort out their issues without the courts where key responsibilities is looking after the Crown dependencies possible. of Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Alderney and Sark. Will he explain to the House why the Crown Tony Lloyd: The Minister’s last point is very important. dependencies were yet again refused the right to lay a In many such private cases, child-protection issues arise. wreath on Remembrance Sunday this year? Will he Can he give the House an absolute guarantee that address this issue to ensure that next year they can do so private cases in which child protection becomes an issue like other countries in the Commonwealth? will still receive legal aid? If not, these cost savings will be at the expense of our children’s future. Mr Clarke: My right hon. Friend Lord McNally has the responsibility and the honour to lead on matters Mr Djanogly: Absolutely; where a public family law concerning Crown dependencies, which I assure my matter arises, that case will remain within scope. If a hon. Friend he takes very seriously. I keep discovering child is subject to being taken away from their parents, that he has made visits to the Crown dependencies to legal aid will be available. discuss these matters. I was quite unaware of this problem and I shall make inquiries of Lord McNally and those Topical Questions responsible for the ceremony about the background to this issue of laying a wreath on behalf of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. T1. [25585] Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): The Secretary of State announced in the House last week—a day after ITN—that significant sums of money were to be paid to British The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice residents and citizens who were detained at Guantanamo (Mr Kenneth Clarke): Following the conviction of Jon Bay, and he explained the factors behind the decision. Venables on 23 July for possessing and distributing Does he agree that there is an urgent need to resolve the indecent images of children, I commissioned Sir David claims of British victims of terrorist attacks overseas Omand to undertake an independent review into the and will he commit today to such compensation being management of Jon Venables from his release from paid as a matter of urgency? local authority detention in June 2001 until his recall to custody on 24 February 2010. Today, I have placed a copy of Sir David’s report in the Library. Sir David has Mr Clarke: The right hon. Gentleman rightly expresses concluded that Jon Venables was effectively and properly irritation about leaks to newspapers and the television, supervised at an appropriate level and frequency of and I assure him that I share all that irritation. contact, having regard to the particular circumstances [Interruption.] If I were indulging in the kind of masterful of his case. Sir David also concludes that no reasonable spin-doctoring of the previous Administration, I would supervisory regime would have been expected to detect have trailed them better than occurred either in the his use of the computer to download indecent images. newspapers or ITN. I made the statement when I did The report contains a number of recommendations on because I was told that ITN had carried the news the the future management of this and similar cases that night before. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that, if will be taken forward by the National Offender he helps me to find out where the information is coming Management Service. from, I will take appropriate steps. 163 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 164

On compensation for victims of terrorism and crimes, 11 police force areas. It allows members of the public to we are having to review the criminal injuries compensation ask the police to check whether people have contact scheme. We are having to look at the prospects for the with their children at risk. They have already successfully compensation for terrorism scheme. The fact is that we protected children and provided considerable reassurance were left with a system of criminal injuries compensation to parents. which was not working. We have enormous liabilities piling up for which the previous Government had not T6. [25590] Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) made any adequate funds available, so we have hundreds (Lab/Co-op): It is clearly inappropriate for convicted of millions of pounds-worth of arrears of claims. criminals to celebrate Christmas with raucous parties in prison. Is the Secretary of State certain that present Sadiq Khan: That is a different issue. Ministry of Justice guidance will prohibit such activity this Christmastime? Mr Clarke: It is not a different issue. They are related issues and we will give our conclusions in due course. Mr Kenneth Clarke: I hate to tell the hon. Lady that there are no good parties going on in prisons to which I Several hon. Members rose— can invite her over Christmas. The whole story about parties was faintly ridiculous. The announcement by Mr Speaker: Order. There is a lot of interest and little the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend time. From now on, we need short questions and short the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt) did not mention answers. parties and had very little to do with parties. Time was—I can remember from my youth—when a popular T3. [25587] Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): What song began with assurance can Ministers give my constituents in west “The warden threw a party in the county jail,” Cornwall that the legal aid reforms published last week but we do not approve of that kind of thing nowadays. will not adversely affect the coverage of, or reduce access to, legal aid, particularly in civil and family Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Every suicide is a proceedings? tragedy, but particularly in prisons it is more harrowing for the family, other prisoners and the prison staff. With The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice that in mind, can one of the Ministers give an update on (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): The hard facts are that the the programme of installing safer cells? amount of legal aid being paid out in civil cases will be reduced. As part of the Government’s savings of £2 billion, £350 million is subject to be taken out of legal aid by Mr Blunt: About 6,200 safer cells have been provided 2014-15. That means that we will focus legal aid on the since 2005. I acknowledge my hon. Friend’s consistent most vulnerable who need legal representation. interest in that. Our objective is to make sure that safer cells are available in all circumstances for offenders deemed to be vulnerable and to require such accommodation. T4. [25588] Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): A number of professionals have contacted me about their worries that, once the Youth Justice Board disappears, T7. [25591] John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) there will be a lack of co-ordination and an increase (Lab/Co-op): It was as recently as 30 June, when the in reoffending by young people. Can the Secretary of Government had had nearly two months to examine State give any reassurance to those professionals that and find how unexpectedly bad the public finances when their work disappears inside the Ministry of were, that the Secretary of State said that he would Justice, that co-ordination work will still be taken explore seriously? “proposals to restore public trust through minimum/maximum sentencing”. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Can he tell us what has changed since then? (Mr Crispin Blunt): Yes, I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. As the Minister with responsibility for Mr Kenneth Clarke: Not much has changed. We are youth justice, I will make sure that those functions exploring proposals of all kinds. We are about to produce carried out by the Youth Justice Board will be properly a Green Paper in December, and as is always the case—there executed within the Ministry of Justice. The Youth is nothing new in this—people try to guess what might Justice Board has done good work, but now it is time be in it. Some people make informed guesses, some for Ministers to take direct responsibility for the work. make uninformed guesses and some get it right. The hon. Gentleman will have to wait until December to see T5. [25589] Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Families in our final judgments about how best to reform a sentencing Witham town are concerned about the presence of system which is over-complicated, difficult for the judges paedophiles and sex offenders, and the risk that they to understand and ripe for reform, and which is completely pose to children in our local community. What steps is failing to protect the public by getting reoffending rates the Secretary of State taking, in conjunction with other down to a sensible level. Government agencies, to ensure that my constituents are protected from those dangerous individuals? Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): Recently, a group of Travellers was served with an eviction order The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick from the site next to St Peter’s, a new school in my Herbert): My hon. Friend might know about the child constituency of Filton and Bradley Stoke, only for sex offender disclosure scheme, which is being extended another group of Travellers to move in as soon as the to 24 police forces, having been successfully piloted in site was vacated. Will the Minister look at the law in 165 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 166 question to see whether it could be changed so that it is proposals give the courts all the powers that they need. site-specific, rather than applying to individuals in certain It is a question of how to set out the severity of the cases? appropriate sentences, at the same time leaving the court in the end to decide on the exact sentence, based Mr Blunt: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the on the circumstances of the case and the offender. question. We are already looking at the law on squatting; Although the recent habit—particularly under the last this, in a sense, is an associated issue. I shall be happy to Government, who produced 21 different criminal justice examine it as well. Bills—was to keep producing very elaborate rules, in my experience judges do not need to be told that an offence T9. [25593] Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): of the kind described by my hon. Friend deserves the As part of the review that the Secretary of State is full force of the law and the severe punishment that the carrying out into implementing giving prisoners public would undoubtedly expect for such a case. the right to vote, will he consider the issue as, in some ways, a positive opportunity to prepare them for Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Is not reintegration into society? How is he approaching that? the vote for prisoners a dyed-in-the-wool Lib Dem policy? Is that not the real reason why the Secretary of Mr Kenneth Clarke: Of course we would welcome State will not stand up for us and tell the European prisoners preparing in any way for rehabilitation as Court that the ruling is simply unacceptable to the honest citizens in society. I wait to see how many British people and the vast majority of our MPs? prisoners will actually take advantage of the opportunity when we decide the extent to which we have to go to Mr Clarke: It is not a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative comply with the Court judgment. It is conceivable that policy, it is true, but it should be the policy of every in some cases the vote would widen the mind of prisoners responsible Member of the House to accept that we and prepare them for taking on the obligations of have to comply with a judgment of the European Court, citizenship. I actually do not think, however, that we because nobody is advocating withdrawing from the should take that too far. convention. The hon. Gentleman’s party accepted that. His party never repudiated the judgment; it always Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The Government accepted that it was going to have to give votes to intend to amend the law on the prosecution of universal prisoners. It wasted five years and two consultation jurisdiction offences. Does the Lord Chancellor agree exercises, however, because it was incapable of taking a that it would be unseemly for decisions relating to those decision in advance of an election—or at all, as it prosecutions to rest with the Law Officer who is also a happened. politician, as would be the case for the Attorney-General? Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): On Mr Clarke: The consent of the Director of Public a less controversial subject, what scope is there for Prosecutions is what we are contemplating. The mediation in family law cases, and will such cases continue Government have committed themselves to that. This is to qualify for legal aid? a question of arrest; we are looking at citizen’s arrest. We want to keep the right of citizen’s arrest but we do not want it to be a publicity stunt based on inadequate Mr Djanogly: We have taken the view that mediation evidence, so we are contemplating making it subject to should be retained within the scope of legal aid, and we the DPP’s consent. We are simply trying to find the think that it should be thoroughly encouraged. Too legislative time to do it. The Government have committed often, people take the course of court when they should to doing this as rapidly as possible. look towards sorting out issues between themselves, and mediation will play a big part in enabling them to Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): do that. Can the Justice Secretary tell us how many times he or his Ministers have spoken to the Scottish Justice Minister Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): On prisoner voting, about prisoners’ voting rights? will the Secretary of State have the grace to accept that before the election, given the implacable opposition Mr Clarke: I have written to Kenny MacAskill and I from the whole of the Conservative party from top to see him from time to time. I have not yet got a response, bottom, with the then shadow Justice Secretary describing but I expect to be in close contact with the Scottish the proposal as “ludicrous”, and deep and profound Government when we make any change, because I concern on our Back Benches, it was not that one did suspect that it will apply to the entire United Kingdom. not want to do something, but that there was no way in the world in which such a measure would have passed Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): through this House? Last Friday, a 16-year-old boy in my constituency was horrifically beaten and stabbed outside his school in full Mr Kenneth Clarke: I am relieved to hear that the view of his classmates. Does my right hon. and learned right hon. Gentleman, my predecessor, was so implacably Friend agree that we need to reserve the harshest penalties determined to press on with this issue throughout his for those who viciously wield knives and to make sure five years. He should perhaps have a word with the hon. that there is a strong deterrent against doing so? That Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe), young man lost his life as a result of that horrible crime. who could explain how committed he was. I am impressed that it was solely the opposition of Conservative Front Mr Clarke: I am, of course, shocked to hear of the Benchers that caused this five-year delay. I suspect that outrageous nature of the crime in my hon. Friend’s the right hon. Gentleman was having difficulty with constituency. We have to make sure that all our sentencing Downing street and the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy 167 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Oral Answers 168 and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) and others in coming to employer or insurer are compensated? I am sure that if any decision about anything, or doing anything about he will meet up with me, I can fill him in and persuade it, before the general election. [Interruption.] him why it is so important.

Mr Speaker: Order. There is so much noise in the Mr Clarke: The Under-Secretary of State for Justice, Chamber that the hon. Member for Hertsmere my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Clappison) could not hear me call him. (Mr Djanogly), will probably be in touch with the hon. Lady to deal with that suggestion. There are obviously Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Can my very difficult issues involved in these asbestos claims—they right hon. and learned Friend take the time to remind troubled the previous Government, and there have been the House which party was in power when the Human decisions for the courts. We will therefore consider her Rights Act 1998 was incorporated into British law, and, suggestion with interest; it has been made before, but we more pertinently, who was the Secretary of State responsible will consider it again and come back to her. for it? Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The Government are rightly focused on getting more people Mr Clarke: It was certainly the Blair Government who are out of work into work, but a particular group who introduced the Human Rights Act. I regret to say of concern is ex-offenders. Will the Government, as that I cannot remember who the Secretary of State was, part of the big society, continue to support charitable but it was probably the right hon. Member for Blackburn organisations such as the Apex Trust, which does a (Mr Straw). Actually, he probably has more things to wonderful job in getting those offenders back into answer for than that, but that was certainly one of the work? things that he put on the statute book. Mr Blunt: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): Will One of the mechanisms we will use is payment-by-results the Secretary of State meet me to discuss setting up an schemes to turn offenders into taxpayers. That means employers liability insurance bureau to ensure that victims that there will be rewards both for stopping offenders of asbestos-related diseases who cannot trace either reoffending and for getting offenders into employment. 169 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 170

Controlling Migration Tier 2 has also been abused and misused. Last year more than 1,600 certificates were issued for care assistants 3.33 pm to come to the UK. At the same time, more than 33,000 care assistants who were already here were claiming The Secretary of State for the Home Department jobseeker’s allowance, so I will restrict tier 2 to graduate-level (Mrs Theresa May): With permission, Mr Speaker, I jobs. would like to make a statement on immigration. We have listened to business and will keep intra-company Controlled migration has benefited the UK economically, transfers outside the limit. However, we will place a new socially and culturally, but when immigration gets out salary threshold of £40,000 on any intra-company transfers of control, it places great pressure on our society, of longer than 12 months. Recent figures show that 50% economy and public services. In the 1990s, net migration of intra-company transfers meet those criteria. That to Britain was consistently in the tens of thousands will ensure that those coming are only the senior managers each year, but under Labour, net migration to Britain and key specialists who international companies need was close to 200,000 per year, for most years since 2000. to move within their organisations. As a result, over Labour’s time in office net migration I should like to thank the Migration Advisory Committee totalled more than 2.2 million people—more than double for its advice and recommendations. Next year, I will the population of Birmingham. ask it to review the limit in order to set new arrangements We cannot go on like this. We must tighten up our for 2012-13. immigration system, focusing on tackling abuse and supporting only the most economically beneficial migrants. However, the majority of non-EU migrants are, in To achieve that, we will have to take action across all fact, students. They represent almost two thirds of the routes to entry—work visas, student visas and family non-EU migrants entering the UK each year, and we visas—and break the link between temporary routes cannot reduce net migration significantly without reforming and permanent settlement. That will bring significant student visas. Hon. Members and others might imagine reductions in non-European Union migration to the that by students, we mean people who come here for a UK and restore it to more sustainable levels. We aim to few years to study at university and then go home. reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands However, nearly half of all students coming here from back down to the tens of thousands. abroad are actually coming to study a course below degree level, and abuse is particularly common at those On the work routes to entry, all the evidence shows lower levels. A recent check of students studying at that it is possible to reduce numbers while promoting private institutions below degree level showed that a growth and underlining the message that Britain is open quarter could not be accounted for. Too many students for business. After consulting widely with business and at lower levels have been coming here with a view to with the Migration Advisory Committee, I have decided living and working rather than studying, and we need to to reduce economic migration through tier 1 and tier 2 stop that abuse. from 28,000 to 21,700. That will mean a fall of more than a fifth compared with last year in the number of As with economic migration, we will therefore refocus economic migrants coming in through tiers 1 and 2, student visas on the areas that add the greatest value, excluding intra-company transfers. and in which evidence of abuse is limited. I will shortly launch a public consultation on student visas. I will Business groups have told us that skilled migrants consult on restricting entry to only those studying at with job offers—tier 2—should have priority over those degree level, but with some flexibility for highly trusted admitted without a job offer, who are in tier 1. I have sponsors to offer courses at a lower level. I will also therefore set the tier 1 limit at 1,000, a reduction of consult on closing the post-study route, which last year more than 13,000 on last year’s number. Such a sharp allowed some 38,000 foreign graduates to enter the UK reduction has enabled me to set the tier 2 limit at labour market at a time when one in 10 UK graduates 20,700, an increase of nearly 7,000 on last year’s number. were unemployed. The old tier 1, supposedly the route for the best and Last year, the family route accounted for nearly 20% of the brightest, has not attracted highly skilled workers. non-EU immigration. Clearly, British nationals must be At least 30% of tier 1 migrants work in low-skilled able to marry the person of their choice, but those who occupations such as stacking shelves, driving taxis or come to the UK must be able to participate in society. working as security guards, and some do not have a job From next week, we will require all those applying for at all, so we will close the tier 1 general route. Instead, I marriage visas to demonstrate a minimum standard of want to use tier 1 to attract more investors, entrepreneurs English. We are also cracking down on sham marriages, and people of exceptional talent. Last year, investors and will consult on extending the probationary period and entrepreneurs accounted for fewer than 300 people, of settlement for spouses beyond the current two years. and that is not enough, so I will make the application process quicker and more user-friendly, and I will not Finally, we need to restrict settlement. It cannot be limit the numbers of those wealth creators who can right that people coming to fill temporary skills gaps come to Britain. have open access to permanent settlement. Last year, There are also some truly exceptional people who 62,000 people settled in the UK on that basis. Settling in should not need sponsorship from an employer but Britain should be a privilege to be earned, not an whom we would wish to welcome to Britain. I will automatic add-on to a temporary way in, so we will end therefore introduce a new route within tier 1 for people the link between temporary and permanent migration. of exceptional talent—the scientists, academics and I intend to introduce these changes to the work route artists who have achieved international recognition, or and some of the settlement changes from April 2011. I are likely to do so. The number will be limited to 1,000 a will bring forward other changes soon after. This is a year. comprehensive package that will help us to meet our 171 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 172 goal of reducing net migration, at the same time as transfers goes up, will she put in place an offsetting cut attracting the brightest and the best, and those with the in tier 1 and tier 2 work permits? If not, and I very much skills our country needs. This package will serve the hope that she will not, will she confirm that her supposed needs of British business, it will respond to the wishes cap is a con, a guess and a fig leaf—in fact, no cap at all? of the British public, and it will give us the sustainable The permanent secretary revealed today that 9,000 immigration system that we so badly need. jobs will be lost from the Home Office, the bulk of which will be from the UK Border Agency. Will she Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): Let confirm that she can implement the policy that she has me start by thanking the Home Secretary for the—rather outlined today, and keep our borders secure, with those late—advance sight of her statement, for coming to the cuts? On family reunification she had nothing new to House this afternoon in person, and for clarifying the say—no target—and on overseas students she announced confusion caused by the misleading leak of the contents no action, just another consultation. of her statement to the BBC this morning. The Home I have learnt in the past few weeks that it is a mistake Secretary is right to say that migration has made, and to ask the right hon. Lady a long list of questions, but continues to make, a vital contribution to the economic there is one question to which it is vital that she should vibrancy, business strength and vitality of our country. give an answer this afternoon: is it still the objective of She is also right to say that it is essential for migration the Prime Minister and the Government to cut net to be properly controlled, for reasons of economic migration to the tens of thousands by 2015? In her well-being and social cohesion. But the question is: statement she repeated the goal, but she omitted to put how? The Labour Government put in place transitional a date on it. Will she reaffirm the 2015 promise? In controls on EU migration, a suspension of unskilled recent months—on VAT and tuition fees—the Deputy work permits, a tough but flexible points system to Prime Minister has got into a habit of breaking pre-election manage skilled migration, and tighter regulation of promises. Can the Home Secretary reassure us that the overseas students. They closed 140 bogus colleges, and Prime Minister has not caught the same disease? This is imposed new citizenship requirements on those seeking a simple question. Is the “tens of thousands” pledge settlement. still binding by 2015—yes or no? At the general election, the leader of the Conservative party proposed to go further in two key respects. First, Mrs May: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that he proposed a new target to reduce net migration to the response. During the Labour leadership campaign, he “tens of thousands by 2015.” said: To meet that target, he pledged a cap on immigration, “as many of us found in the election, our arguments on immigration which he said would be tougher than the points system. were not good enough.” At the time, the leader of the Liberal Democrat party Listening to him today, I realised that Labour’s arguments said: on immigration are still not good enough. He made a “We can’t come up with promises like caps which don’t work”. number of claims about what the Labour Government He then agreed to the cap in the coalition agreement. did on immigration, including the claim that they introduced Since then, the Government have been in wholesale transitional controls when new member states entered retreat, and today they are in wholesale confusion over the EU. I seem to remember that when the first tranche this policy. The Confederation of British Industry, the of new member states entered the EU, that is precisely chambers of commerce, universities, Nobel prize winners, what they did not do, despite every blandishment from and UK and foreign companies—large and small—have the Conservatives to encourage them. all highlighted the huge damage that the Government’s The right hon. Gentleman then said that the previous proposals would do to investment and jobs. Government took action on the points-based system The Home Affairs Committee and the Migration limits. I accept that, but what happened? They closed Advisory Committee have said that the proposed cap tier 3 of the points-based system of entry into the UK, applies to only 20% of non-EU migration. As a result, but nothing else, so when tier 3 shut down, the number we have had the unedifying sight of the Prime Minister of student visas went up by tens of thousands. That is hinting at concession after concession—in the face, we why this Government know that when we deal with one read, of opposition from the Home Secretary, thanks to part of the immigration system, we must act across the the excellent public lobbying and guerrilla tactics of the whole of it. Business Secretary, who, sadly, is not in his place this I made the figures for the tier 1 and tier 2 caps that we afternoon. In his use of such tactics, he is less Stalin and are introducing absolutely clear in my statement. The more Trotsky—and certainly not Mr Bean. right hon. Gentleman asked whether the UK Border Today the Home Secretary has come to the House to Agency could manage the cuts and keep our borders confirm the details of the retreat. We will keep a close secure with the changes in personnel that will be made, eye on her proposals to see how they affect business and and the answer to that, unequivocally, is: yes, it can. science. None the less, we join business representatives Finally, the right hon. Gentleman asked me to confirm in welcoming her decision to exempt intra-company what I said in my statement, which is that we aim to transfers of workers. What has caused confusion is this reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands morning’s briefing to the BBC that the total cap would back down to the tens of thousands—[HON.MEMBERS: be 42,700 work permits. Her officials then had to clarify “When? By 2015?”] If he is to criticise the Government’s the fact that there is no such cap on that scale. She has plans on immigration, the right hon. Gentleman must now said that she will allow 21,700 tier 1 and tier 2 work have a plan. So far he does not even have an immigration permits, but with no cap on migration caused by intra- spokesman, let alone an immigration policy. The British company transfers. If the number of intra-company people, who according to his own words felt that Labour 173 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 174

[Mrs May] students, however, she will not be able to tackle the issue of bogus colleges unless she accepts a previous was no longer on their side and no longer stood up for recommendation by the Committee to restrict the use of them on immigration, will not listen to him until he has the word “college”. It is because this word continues an immigration plan. to be used that people enter this country and pursue non-educational courses. Will she please look into that? Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): If the Will she also examine how the whole administration of cap is set too low—in other words, at a level that stops the immigration system operates in relation to illegal UK businesses creating wealth and jobs—or too high, immigration? how quickly can it be adjusted, and how will the adjustment process work? Mrs May: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. His turn of phrase encourages me to enjoy my Mrs May: We are confident in the work that we have time in front of the Home Affairs Committee when that done, and in the fact that we have got the cap—and, happy occasion next comes around. He also made a crucially, the changes to policy—right. The announcement serious point about his Committee’s past recommendations is about not just the figure, but the change in policy. The on this issue. We will certainly look at his specific Migration Advisory Committee will undertake an annual suggestion. We need to consider a number of ways of review, so it will be able to advise the Government on ensuring that students coming to the UK are genuinely what the figure should be in future, after considering coming as students, and to institutions properly offering how behaviour has adapted to the policy changes that an education and providing a qualification. This is not we are introducing. just about the immigration system, but about the reputation of the UK, because we do not want people to come here Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The right hon. thinking they are coming to a college on an educational Lady says, “We will end the link between temporary course, but then find that they have come to something and permanent migration.”How can temporary migrants, quite different. whether spouses or workers, earn permanent settlement? Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I generally Mrs May: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, because she welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement—but on EU gives me the opportunity to say that we will be making migration, are we not in danger of ignoring the lessons initial changes to the settlement proposals, but that we of the past six years, when we imported more than also intend to consult more fully on exactly how we will 1 million low-wage and low-skilled workers, despite introduce changes to settlement more widely. The initial having 5 million of our own citizens on out-of-work changes will relate to the language requirements, but we benefits? Will she also explain why importing highly will also look at the salary levels required for a sponsor skilled workers is practical, when we have record numbers to bring somebody in for settlement, and at the criminality of UK and British graduates who could and should do thresholds. Those are the immediate issues that we will those jobs? consider. I also intend to ask the Migration Advisory Committee to do some more work on changing the Mrs May: My hon. Friend is right about the need to settlement requirements in the longer term. ensure that people in the UK are skilled enough to take up the work available. The figures show that EU-UK Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): I congratulate immigration and emigration numbers have broadly balanced the Home Secretary and the Minister for Immigration out, and that net migration is coming predominantly on this admirable programme and the excellent start from outside the EU. Our immigration policy has to fit made. May I press her a little further on the breaking of in closely with the skills agenda that my right hon. the link between settlement and people coming here to Friend the Business Secretary announced last week. On work temporarily? At what stage does she expect to occasions, however, there will be highly skilled workers introduce the measures necessary to achieve that? with a specialism that a British company needs—in areas such as the energy sector, for example—and it is Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend for that question, right for Britain to be open for business, and for us to and echo his thanks to my hon. Friend the Minister for allow companies to grow by introducing those workers Immigration for his sterling work. We are keen to look into the UK. at these other routes, particularly the settlement route, as well as at the other aspects, and over the coming Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Given the views months, as I indicated in response to the hon. Member that were so robustly expressed during the general election for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), we will be asking the campaign, I welcome, on behalf of many of my Migration Advisory Committee to consider the matter constituents, the Home Secretary’s statement. Will she so that we can introduce the changes. I hesitate to put bear in mind another of their views, which is that they an absolute date on that, but I hope that we will be able are now aware that the population of this country is to announce something next year. primarily pushed by immigration? Will she tell us more certainly when she will return to the House to give a Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Home Secretary statement on breaking the link between coming here to is more famous for her footwear than her headgear, but work, which is often welcome, and almost automatically may I welcome the exemptions to the cap that she has getting the right to citizenship? announced today? The Home Affairs Committee made recommendations on intra-company transfers and elite Mrs May: I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s scientists, and this is the right approach for the immigration comments, and for his work, with my hon. Friend the policy that the Government have decided to pursue. On Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames), on settlement 175 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 176 in the UK. They have both done a lot of important Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I wonder work in highlighting the issue. I am afraid that I will how many of us would be sitting here today, if in the disappoint the right hon. Gentleman in not being able 20th century our parents and grandparents had had to to give him a date when I will come to the House, but I go through the sieve that the Home Secretary is putting assure him that I will do so in due course, to show how in place to slow down the number of people coming to we will be able to change that route. As he said, the the UK. Does she agree, and will she say so more British public were absolutely clear that the Government strongly, that the arrival of 10% of the English population should do something about this matter. They saw a in the form of Huguenots enriched Britain, that Jews Labour Government who did not do anything about who came here enriched Britain, and that Muslims and immigration. We are a Government who will deliver for Pakistanis in my constituency have enriched Britain, the British people. and will she be very careful before she gives any comfort to Migrationwatch, the British National party and the Several hon. Members rose— United Kingdom Independence party, and their horrible anti-immigrant line? Mr Speaker: Order. A great many Members are seeking Mrs May: I have to say that several of the groups that to catch my eye, and I should like to accommodate as the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned came here as many as possible, so brevity from the Back Benches and refugees, and we are not talking about the asylum the Front Benches alike is required. system today. We do need to examine the operation of our asylum system to ensure that it operates swiftly in Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): I warmly welcome my the interests not only of the UK, but of those who are right hon. Friend’s statement. She correctly mentioned seeking asylum. However, that is not what we are debating student visas, and then mentioned consultation. Given today. that we have had 10 years of almost mass immigration, will she assure the House that that consultation will be Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Hon. Members swift? will be delighted that the Home Secretary has announced this policy to the House first, and that the BBC was so Mrs May: I am happy to assure my hon. Friend that wonderfully misinformed this morning. In Wellingborough, we will issue that consultation very shortly, and that we immigration is the No. 1 issue, but my constituents are want to be in a position to make changes to student more concerned about people coming from the European visas next spring. Union. I wonder how that question is going to be addressed. Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): The immigration cap may be designed for the south of Mrs May: Unlike the last Labour Government, we England, but it definitely does not fit Scotland. Does have been absolutely clear that, for any new member the right hon. Lady not even start to understand and states entering the European Union, we would apply appreciate that Scotland has a different range of population transitional controls. and demographic issues? How can immigration caps possibly help Scotland, which is suffering from structural Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Are not these depopulation? proposals a damp squib that will have no real impact on the number of people coming to Britain? Bearing in mind that the Government have already ruled out EU Mrs May: This proposal will help all parts of the migrants, intra-company transfers, students, sportsmen United Kingdom, because it does two crucial things. It and women and anyone in the arts, who is left? meets the British people’s need to see us controlling our immigration system, but it does so in a way that will enable business to bring in skilled workers. Many businesses Mrs May: Labour Members really are going to have in Scotland have spoken to us about the need to bring in to get their story in order as to exactly what they want skilled workers—in the energy sector, for example—and to do on immigration. We want to ensure that Britain is I believe that they will welcome our decision today. open for business and that we can bring in skilled workers, which we will be doing, but that we can put in a cap that enables us to reduce net migration into this Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) country. That is what the British people want, and it is (LD): Specifically on the energy industries, on which so what this coalition Government will deliver. many jobs in my constituency depend, I welcome the flexibility and movement. Will the Home Secretary Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): assure those industries that small companies in the May I welcome the statement as representing a constructive supply chain will not face too bureaucratic a process for way forward? Does the Minister agree that foreign tier 2 applications, and that intra-company transfers students should leave the country and reapply if they will not be so time-limited as to make projects impossible want to change their course or apply for a work permit? to deliver? Mrs May: My hon. Friend has raised an important Mrs May: I am happy to give the comfort that my point. One of the issues around students relates to those hon. Friend asks for. Indeed, we will look at the who come here to study one course and then move from administrative process for tier 2 applications to ensure course to course in order to be able to stay here. We will that they involve as little bureaucracy as possible, with be looking at that issue in the consultation, and I can small companies particularly in mind. I hope that he assure him that the proposal he has just made is exactly will see some benefits from that. the kind of thing that will be in the consultation. 177 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 178

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The Home Secretary Mrs May: One of the issues that we will look at has suggested that there might be some concessions for among specific groups, such as students, is the number those involved in the fishing industry. By and large, I of people who overstay. That is one of the problems and welcome the proposals put forward today, but she has abuses of the system, but, unlike the previous Labour mentioned a concession of a year until September 2011 Government, the current Government are committed—in in regard to work permits for Filipino fisherman. Would addition to what we are doing on immigration—to she be prepared to consider extending that arrangement proper UK border controls, through our work to ensure for another year, given that the fishing industry feels a UK border force. that it cannot do without it? Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): May I warmly Mrs May: I think that we will have to look at that welcome the sensible decisions that my right hon. Friend matter again closer to the September 2011 deadline. I has taken? Does she agree that, although the economic would simply say to the hon. Gentleman that the more migration that she intends to permit is clearly of benefit exceptions to the rules that people claim, the less effective to the nation, a population pushed up to 70 million is the overall rules will be. We are absolutely clear that, not? That is the inheritance she faced, on official figures, within the rules that we have set, there are groups of from the policies of the Labour party. very specialist workers. A number of issues have been raised with me about people with very particular skills Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. who are needed by certain industries, and who we It is clear that, if we take no action, the numbers of net believe can come in, within the routes that we are setting migrants to the UK are likely to continue to be about out. 200,000 a year. We think that we need to do something about that, which is why we are introducing the package Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): Tony Blair’s today and will be introducing further measures on other adviser once said that the sharp increase in immigration routes of entry. over the past 10 years was partly due to “a driving political purpose: that mass immigration was the way that the Government was going to make the UK truly multicultural”. Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): English language schools in my constituency contribute more Can the Home Secretary confirm today that so-called than £100 million to the local economy, yet they face social objectives are no longer acceptable as a reason for real difficulties because of the uncertainty surrounding immigration, and that it should be based instead on the the student visa system. Will the Secretary of State economic benefits that immigrants can bring to this ensure that a cost-benefit analysis to the UK economy country? of overseas students who study at our schools is carried out? What words of reassurance can she give to bona Mrs May: As I said at the beginning of my statement, fide language schools that there will be a swift resolution controlled migration can benefit this country economically, to the issue? socially and culturally, but we are absolutely clear, in looking at the routes into the country for economic migrants, that the people who are coming in will bring a Mrs May: A number of hon. Members from all parts genuine economic benefit to the UK. of the House with English language schools in their constituencies have raised the question of such schools. We take the issue very seriously, and one aspect of the Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does the student visas consultation will be aimed specifically at £40,000 figure for intra-company transfers refer only to such schools and how we can introduce to the system salaries or to salaries plus benefits? some changes that will benefit them. Mrs May: In line with current arrangements, there will be some allowance for allowances. Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement, which will be Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): welcomed in my constituency by people of all backgrounds Immigration from Ireland to the UK has doubled from and political persuasions. In particular, I welcome the 7,000 to 14,000 as the euro crisis has developed. Will the exemption for wealth creators and the re-focusing of Home Secretary confirm that, as well as having a legal tier 1 on eminent scientists. Will she tell the House a right to come, those young people will be welcomed to little more about how the 1,000 limit will work? our shores, and that we will continue to create the jobs that they need? Mrs May: We are finalising the details of exactly how the 1,000 limit will work. We are also considering a role Mrs May: My hon. Friend raises an interesting point for bodies, such as research councils, in confirming that will be in many people’s minds, given the situation those people who would be of benefit. We want to in Ireland at the moment. Of course, movement is include not just those who are at a point in their career available within the European Union area, and movement when they are known to be great scientists, artists and from Ireland into the UK has been long standing. so forth, but also exceptionally talented people who are at the beginning of their careers. Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): What procedures and resources will be available for enforcing these proposals, Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): The Home Secretary given that one of the problems, under successive says that the aim is to reduce net migration from the Governments, has been people overstaying when their hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands. Will visa has expired? she specify when she intends to do so? I thought I heard 179 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 180 her say 2015, but doing that while slashing the border Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): It is a disgrace that agency staff who need to do the job of policing is not last year 1,600 visas were granted to people who wanted going to wash with the British public. to work in care homes when there are 33,000 care workers claiming jobseeker’s allowance. Does my right Mrs May: I had answered the point about what I said hon. Friend agree that this is a kick in the teeth for in relation to tens of thousands, and I answered the those unemployed care workers, proving that her proposals shadow Home Secretary’s point about the UK Border are exactly the right policy to introduce? and Immigration Agency. As I said, we will be able to deliver the policy through the agency, and we will be Mrs May: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend able to ensure that the agency can deliver on its requirements, that this is the right policy for us to introduce. Many and we as a Government are committed to reinforcing people, not just care workers, are unemployed, yet they our border security by introducing a border police have to see care workers being brought in from overseas. command in the new national crime agency. Of the many graduates in the UK, one in 10 are unemployed six months after their graduation. Last year, however, I believe that 38,000 overseas students Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): There are many stayed here after their graduation to work in the UK. approved, well established and highly reputable English We need to deal with that and we also need to ensure language schools in my constituency. I support much of that we get the skills training right for people in the UK. the statement’s content, but I am profoundly concerned The action we have taken on immigration today is not about any further delay in sorting the problem with just an indictment of the last Labour Government’s people coming to the UK to study English at such failure to do something about the problem, but is also a schools. I urge the Home Secretary to agree to meet me, very sad commentary on their failure to deliver a proper a cross-party delegation of MPs and the Immigration skills agenda for the UK. Minister as soon as possible, because many companies and businesses in Eastbourne and throughout the UK are suffering badly. I urge her to grant me that Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): May I press opportunity. the Home Secretary on the issue of language courses? I am thinking particularly of Sheffield International college in my constituency. With its 1,000 students, it plays an Mrs May: I am well aware that my hon. Friend has important role in the local economy and as a feeder made significant representations on that point, as have institution helping students to proceed on to our two other Members. Indeed, I believe he has already met the universities. All that makes an enormous economic Immigration Minister. I would be happy to meet a contribution. group of MPs to discuss the matter, and, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion Mrs May: I thank the hon. Gentleman for echoing (Caroline Lucas), we are very well aware of the point, the importance of this issue, which was also raised by which has been well made by many Members. We are the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion and by my hon. conscious of the economic benefits of English language Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd). schools and some of their very specific issues with As I said, I am happy to meet a group of MPs to discuss particular students from particular countries. We are English language schools. We know how important that looking at how we can address that issue in our student issue is and we are looking to address it through visa proposals, but I would be happy to meet a group consultation. of MPs. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): May I congratulate Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I agree entirely my right hon. Friend on her statement and tell her that with the need to take swift removal action against my constituents will welcome the move away from people who overstay their work or student visa entitlement, expressing rhetoric about British jobs for British workers but this country has a problem with people who have towards taking substantive action? Nevertheless, many overstayed for many decades and have given birth to people in Harlow will be concerned that their jobs are children who are now adults. Can anything be done to being given away, particularly by big companies like the regularise their situation so that they can go into legitimate major supermarkets, to temporary migrant workers. employment without having to go through all the same Will my right hon. Friend set out how her measures will hurdles and costs of applying for citizenship that others help this situation? do? This represents a real barrier for those people. Mrs May: I believe that our measures will help because Mrs May: We inherited the legacy programme from they will tighten up the provisions to ensure that the the last Government and had to deal with a significant people who come into this country under either tier 1 or backlog of cases, some of which related to people who tier 2 are the skilled workers that companies need, not have lived here for many years. Their cases had simply those coming here to do low-skill jobs. We will also not been tackled with the right and proper degree of tighten up on the intra-company transfers route through speediness. As the chief executive of the UK Border the salary threshold so that that route is available, as it Agency confirmed to the Home Affairs Select Committee, was always intended to be, for senior managers and we aim to finish that legacy programme by next summer. people with specialist skills rather than for people doing Looking to the future, we need to ensure that we do not low-skill jobs. get into the situation again of allowing people to come here and making them wait many years for an answer Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ from the Government as to whether or not they can Co-op): May I concur with what has already been said stay. about the position facing English language schools? It 181 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 182

[Mark Lazarowicz] Can she reassure them that she will crack down on the abuse of the system that has been witnessed by some IT is a difficult position and it needs to be addressed companies? urgently. This country is already losing custom as it goes to other countries—we are not the only country Mrs May: As I said in my statement and have said in where English is spoken—so I urge the Home Secretary response to a number of questions, we are tightening to do something about the problem quickly. Otherwise, the rules relating to tier 2 entry to the United Kingdom, areas like mine, where English language schools contribute as well as those relating to intra-company transfers. We significantly to the local economy, will suffer. will ensure that those who come here really are the skilled and highly skilled workers who are needed. Mrs May: There may be other hon. Members who However, my hon. Friend’s point echoes one made by a wish to raise the issue of English language schools from number of other Members about the need to ensure their constituency viewpoint. Let me say to the hon. that businesses in the United Kingdom seek the skills Gentleman, as I have to others, that we are well aware of that are available here. this issue and we are looking to address it as we deal with student visas. Although many English language Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I schools offer a very good product and are of significant should hate to misrepresent the Home Secretary. To economic benefit to the UK, I also need to point out avoid confusion, will she tell us whether she will reduce that this sector of the economy is not completely free net migration to tens of thousands by 2015—or has she from abuse. Sadly, some schools do damage to others by just dropped the Government’s specific commitment to setting themselves up as English language schools and that date? then not offering the right services. Mrs May: We have been absolutely clear about our aim in regard to net migration, and we made it absolutely Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I welcome my right clear in the coalition agreement that we were committed hon. Friend’s statement, but does she agree that as well to introducing an annual limit on non-EU economic as controlling immigration, we should do more to ensure migration. That is what we are doing today. [Interruption.] that those who settle here and integrate with us respect our culture, traditions and values, and make greater Mr Speaker: I call Paul Uppal. [Interruption.] Order. efforts to learn our language? I am quite worried about Opposition Front Benchers. They are in a state of quite extraordinary excitement, Mrs May: I think it is important for people who come but I want to hear Mr Uppal. to live here in the United Kingdom to be able to participate in society. That is why next week we are Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): Thank introducing an English language test for those who wish you, Mr Speaker. to come here to join a spousal partner. I think it only Immigration cases take up most of the case load at sensible for someone who is coming to live here to be my weekly surgery, particularly during the summer able to speak English, and thence to participate in months, when the wedding season and many other society. family occasions are taking place. Will the Home Secretary and the Minister for Immigration, my hon. Friend the Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): Member for Ashford (Damian Green), consider pinning I welcome the statement in general terms, but I do not down responsibility for sponsorship when people come believe that it goes far enough. There is still uncontrolled here to visit their families on such occasions? That migration from the European Union, certainly to my would tackle head-on the problem of absconding, fraud constituency, into which have come a substantial number and overstaying. The last Labour Government examined of unskilled and semi-skilled European workers who the matter when immigration was an issue, but they are undercutting the unemployed work force. What ducked it and chose not to do anything about it. steps will the Home Secretary take to ensure that some curbs are placed on those people? Mrs May: My hon. Friend has made an interesting suggestion. When we consider the issue of family visas, we will be happy to accept representations from him on Mrs May: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. He that and any other ideas that he may have. has a record of having taken a rather different view from the Front Bench Members of his party when it Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Will the Home Secretary was in government. As I have made clear and as the say more about how she believes that the needs of figures show, the vast majority of net migration is from particular sectors of the economy, and the pressures on outside the European Union. The flows into and out of them, can be properly respected and responded to within the country of British and EU citizens balance out, and the new annual limits? Is a regional dimension built into have for the past few years. As for the future, the any of the Government’s proposals? We know that Government have made it absolutely clear that if there before the election the Liberal Democrats spoke of are any new member states, we will exercise transitional huge regional issues relating to immigration. Does the controls. new regime take any account of the needs of, and the pressures on, particular regions? Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend recognise that many British Mrs May: The proposals I am setting out today apply workers in the IT industry are very concerned about to immigration policy across the United Kingdom. To losing their jobs as a result of intra-company transfers? respond to the hon. Gentleman’s first point, I am confident 183 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 184 that the needs of particular sectors will be met through Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Two our changes to tier 1, tier 2 and the intra-company months ago, UK executives at Toyota told me of the transfer route. We have listened very carefully to business, benefits for their company and the wider British economy and the CBI recently said it thought of the transfer of knowledge and skills through intra- “a workable...solution would encompass…protection of sponsored company transfers. Will the Home Secretary publish work permit numbers as a priority ahead of those without a job the economic analysis that I am sure she has performed offer”, of the impact on growth and output of restricting which we have done. The CBI also said that by intra-company transfers of longer than 12 months to those on salaries of more £40,000? “prioritising the demand-led part of the system—Tier 2—in this manner the government will be able to deliver on its goal of reducing net migration without damaging business”, Mrs May: I gave some figures in my statement, and which, again, is exactly what we have done. I am also happy to be able to say to the hon. Gentleman that the Minister for Immigration met representatives from Toyota to discuss their particular needs, and I Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I welcome understand that they were comfortable with our proposals. the statement. Does the Home Secretary agree that the UK economy’s dependence on skilled labour from abroad highlights two of the starkest failures under the last Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): I congratulate the Government: the promotion of welfare dependency, Home Secretary on having the grit and determination and the failure to improve skills and training? to introduce this important proposal. She rightly pointed out the kinds of abuse we saw under the previous Mrs May: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it Government in respect of programmes such as the is important that we see the policies announced in the student visa scheme, which meant that many people statement in the context of our welfare reform policy, were here who should not have been. What measures the Work programme to be brought in next year, and are her Department taking to ensure that those who are the Business Secretary’s proposed skills agenda, which here illegally are removed—and removed quickly? he introduced in a White Paper last week. Mrs May: We are considering the measures that Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): could be taken against those colleges or so-called colleges During last Thursday’s immigration debate, the Home that just enable students to come here to work and then Secretary’s departmental colleague, the Under-Secretary stay on, rather than be removed. As I said in answer to a of State, the hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup number of other hon. Members who raised this or (James Brokenshire), said: similar issues, this is the Government who are committed to strengthening our borders through the border police “We therefore aim to reduce net migration to the levels of the command within the national crime agency. 1990s—tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, each year by the end of this Parliament.”—[Official Report, 18 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 1120.] Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): I welcome the The end of this Parliament will, of course, be in 2015. Home Secretary’s statement. I just hope that the May I offer the Home Secretary another opportunity to consultations do not take too long and that the whole confirm categorically that that is still her Government’s House will have an opportunity to debate all these policy this week? issues in detail, probably with an immigration Bill. Given the rampant abuse of tourist, student, work and family visas, is it not time that an incentive is provided Mrs May: I say to the hon. Lady that it is the for those tempted to overstay or those who have overstayed position—[Interruption.] I listened very carefully. I will by saying that they can return to their country of origin say this only once: we aim to reduce net migration from voluntarily or be barred from re-entering this country the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands by for at least 20 years? That would be an incentive that the end of this Parliament. would work.

Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): Returning Mrs May: I think I will take that as my hon. Friend’s to the issue of student visas, we have quite a few contribution to our consultation exercise on student boarding schools in West Worcestershire, such as Malvern visas. college, St Michael’s college in Tenbury Wells and Malvern St James college, which attract students from all around the world. They are highly trusted sponsors, but they Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): I congratulate are already finding that the system is slowing them the Home Secretary on this statement. The shadow down. Can the Home Secretary reassure these colleges Home Secretary has apparently admitted in the media that the process will become faster? that the Labour party, when in government, made a mistake in 2004 by not applying transitional controls to enlargement of the European Union then. Mrs May: I am happy to give my hon. Friend that reassurance. While we are consulting on focusing the student visa route on universities, further education Ed Balls indicated assent. colleges and degree level courses, highly trusted sponsors will be able to offer courses at below degree level, and I Michael Ellis: I see the right hon. Gentleman nodding. would expect that the schools to which my hon. Friend Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that such has referred would be able to continue to offer courses transitional controls will be applied to any further because, as she says, they are highly trusted sponsors. enlargements of the European Union? 185 Controlling Migration23 NOVEMBER 2010 Controlling Migration 186

Mrs May: I am very happy to give my hon. Friend Friend that the UK Border and Immigration Agency that commitment on any future new member states was very active in stopping sham marriages over the entering the European Union. I am fascinated that the summer; we had a very big crackdown on them. Many shadow Home Secretary stood up in response to my people were concerned and surprised to see that a statement and claimed that the previous Government Church of England vicar was caught and arrested for had introduced all these transitional controls, yet now helping sham marriages to take place. we hear that he says they made a mistake in not doing this properly. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Last and most certainly least, I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I warmly Does she agree that, although the large-scale import of welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement, which will cheap labour may keep the lid on wage price inflation, it go a long way towards assuaging the concerns of my also keeps a lid on productivity because business men constituents. They are not so worried about business who feel that they can import cheap labour are less people being here for two or three years; they are incentivised to be productive? Does she agree that that worried about the permanent settlement that automatically is not a competitive model and that the Government seems to be granted when someone has lived here for should not turn a blind eye to businesses that try to four years. Can she give further assurances about the import cheap labour? criminality aspect, because that is another great concern in my constituency? Mrs May: I have said in some of my conversations with businesses that it is important that they look to Mrs May: We are indeed looking at the criminality ensure that they encourage and provide the training for criteria for entering in order to tighten them up; we skills growth and development here in the UK. That is want to look at people’s records when considering who important, as it is in the UK’s interests, the individual’s can enter the UK. We think that that is an important interests and the interests of those businesses. element that we should be looking at, and I know that Mr Speaker: I must thank the Home Secretary and the issue has concerned a number of people. colleagues for their co-operation, as a result of which in 40 minutes of Back-Bench time we managed to get Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Has the Home through 44 Back-Bench questions and answers. It shows Secretary made an estimate of the number of sham what can be done when we put our minds to it. marriages, particularly those to EU migrants to the UK? What further measures will she take to deter this Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Excellent chairing. and punish those responsible? Mr Speaker: Well, I am always grateful to the hon. Mrs May: I do not have an estimate of the number of Gentleman for his unfailing support and I heard what sham marriages, but I am happy to say to my hon. he said. 187 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Points of Order 188

Points of Order Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

4.29 pm Mr Speaker: If the hon. Gentleman has a totally Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): On a unrelated point of order, I am happy to hear it. point of order, Mr Speaker. Of course, I commend your chairing. Given that we have just witnessed a U-turn on Pete Wishart: The BBC may or may not have got the a U-turn, I am tempted to ask whether you might allow Home Secretary’s statement, but the smaller parties the Home Secretary to start again, but I fear that that most certainly did not get a copy of it in advance. The might be ruled out of order. On a more serious point, Government have been pretty good at getting statements may I ask whether the Home Secretary contacted you to us recently. Will you ensure that the smaller parties, today about the leak of her statement to the BBC? Did such as the Labour party, get a copy of the statement in she explain why the statement was leaked to the BBC, advance of its being given? and do you think it would be appropriate for her to explain to the House why the details of her statement Mr Speaker: In so far as I could fully hear the hon. were leaked to the BBC this morning? Gentleman—I apologise if I failed to hear him, but there was quite a lot of noise in the Chamber—I would simply reiterate that there are certain requirements of Mr Speaker: I sometimes wonder whether these generous courtesy on Ministers. Generally speaking, the requirements initial remarks are a ruse by Members to get me on their are complied with and I know that it is always the side, but I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. I intention of Ministers to do so. Generally speaking, was not contacted by the Home Secretary about the that happens and if it did not in this case, that was a matter to which the right hon. Gentleman refers, but he mistake. makes his point with force and clarity. I am always concerned that the House should hear key announcements Mrs May indicated assent. first. However, I would say that when different numbers are being bandied around that is sometimes a sign of a Mr Speaker: The Home Secretary nods assent to that matter for debate rather than a point of order. However, proposition. I hope that such a mistake will not happen I shall keep my eyes and ears focused firmly on these again. matters because the House must hear first. Ed Balls rose— The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker: The right hon. Member for Morley and Mr Speaker. As you have more or less indicated, I think Outwood (Ed Balls) is insatiable today. that the Home Secretary— Ed Balls: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Ed Balls: Shadow. Having heard the Home Secretary’s remarks, I fully accept that it was not her or her Department who made this leak. I hear you saying two things from the Chair: Mrs May: After 13 years in opposition, as the right first, that these leaks are undesirable and, secondly, that hon. Gentleman will discover, one sometimes makes they are even more undesirable if people get the numbers these mistakes. The information that the BBC had was wrong when they are doing the leaking. wrong and I am happy to say to the House that any information on the BBC first thing this morning was Mr Speaker: The question of whether it was or was nothing to do with the Home Office. not a leak remains undetermined. All I can say is that I am Speaker of the House, but I am not Sherlock Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Home Secretary, Holmes. Moreover, as usual, the right hon. Gentleman and I am glad that we are not going to suffer an identity has used his ingenuity to put his point firmly on the crisis for any length of time. I would simply say to the record. If there are no further points of order, perhaps House that I think we will leave it there. We have had an we can come to the ten-minute rule Bill, for which the exchange, concerns have been expressed and the Home promoter and some of his supporters have been eagerly Secretary has made her position clear. waiting. 189 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Grandparents (Access Rights) 190

Grandparents (Access Rights) that young person. Sadly, grandfathers are sometimes the only male role model whom many young people Motion for leave to introduce a Bill (Standing Order encounter. No. 23) The value of grandparents can never be underestimated. I cannot put that point better than Pam Wilson of the 4.33 pm Grandparents Action Group UK, who has stated: Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I beg to “Grandparents are a link to the past and a bridge to the future, move, for family history and medical details. To give a child a sense of belonging from the roots of their family.” That leave be given to bring in a Bill to give grandparents rights of access to their grandchildren in certain circumstances; Similarly, Peter Harris who was formerly the Official and for connected purposes. Solicitor and is now with the Grandparents Association, Although this might be entitled the Grandparents has said: (Access Rights) Bill, it could just as easily be renamed “Grandparents are known to provide care for grandchildren the Grandchildren’s Rights Bill. If the Bill progresses, it more extensively than other relatives, and we believe that this puts will increase the rights of grandchildren to access their them in a special category.” grandparents. I believe that grandparents should be placed in that I want to thank many of the campaigners who were special category. involved in this campaign, which has gone on for some Grandparents can face a number of legal problems, time, including my predecessor as MP for Brigg and particularly when they have been denied access to their Goole, Mr Ian Cawsey, who moved a similar Bill a couple grandchildren as a result of bereavement or divorce. of years ago that was sponsored by you, Mr Speaker. A With bereavement, the surviving parent might find a number of organisations are involved, including the new partner, which might involve the grandchildren Grandparents Association and I also want to draw on being introduced to a new family. Over time, the family some of the work undertaken by the Centre for Social might move and grow ever more distant from the bereaved Justice. Above all, I want to pay tribute to my constituent, grandparents. With divorce and separation, the Dorothy Fagge, who has been a dedicated campaigner grandparents are often forced to take sides and it is on this issue for a number of years, having twice been to human nature for them to side with their own child. court to access two different sets of her grandchildren. I That can lead to children being used as a weapon in shall talk about Dorothy’s experience in a moment. particularly acrimonious divorces or separations. Access Some 1.3 million families in England use grandparents is often denied or, even worse, traded for financial as the primary source of care for about 1.8 million reasons. children, offering a saving to the taxpayer of about All that places grandparents in an incredibly difficult £4.8 billion a year given the average cost of child care. position. Currently, the law is not necessarily on their That would equate to a cost of about £92 million a week side. There is no automatic right for a grandparent to go to the public purse. to court to seek contact with their grandchild. In fact, The Grandparents Association estimates that about 1 they must seek the court’s permission to seek access million children do not see their grandparents because through it. The process can be long winded and very families have separated or lost touch. For me, the role expensive. This morning, I spoke to Lynn Chesterman that my grandparents played in my childhood and until of the Grandparents Association, who told me that the they passed away was incredibly significant, and its average cost of such a process is about £20,000. That value cannot be quantified. There is strong evidence option might be accessible for better-off grandparents, regarding the value of grandparental involvement, but there would be no possibility of those from more particularly in the lives of adolescents, in reducing deprived or poorer backgrounds pursuing it. adjustment difficulties when marriages or partnerships My constituent, Dorothy Fagge, whom I mentioned fail. That was reported a few years ago in a national earlier, was able to go to court and use substantial study, “Involved Grandparenting and Child Well-being”. amounts of her own finances to gain access to her That view is shared not only by those who have an grandchildren, which had been denied to her in two interest in this area and have campaigned in it, but by different circumstances, one of which was incredibly young people. A study that was quoted in the Centre for tragic. Despite all her resources and her ability to pay Social Justice’s family law and children report showed for legal representation, it took her more than a year to that 75% of young people said that a grandparent was gain access. the most important person, or one of the most important This is not an easy situation to address. I understand people, in their life. A sample of 1,500 young people that, and there will always be cases in which contact showed that grandparental involvement in schooling with grandparents is not desirable, but the courts must and education is linked to lower maladjustment scores determine that. However, I seek through the Bill some and fewer contact problems and that being able to talk changes to the law to protect grandchildren in gaining to a grandparent is linked to their having fewer emotional access to their grandparents. I would like to see an and behavioural problems. automatic right for grandparents to seek contact through As I have mentioned on numerous occasions, before the courts so that they do not have to go through the I came to the House I was a schoolteacher. I taught in a double process of having to seek leave first. I hope number of very deprived communities in Yorkshire and that, through the review undertaken by the coalition we sometimes found that grandparents were the sole Government, there will be moves to establish some point of contact in a child’s life, acting as an anchor or form of early mediation to sort out contact issues, rock. Often, when all else around was failing, the which happens through the Australian family mediation grandparents were the only people left standing for centres. 191 Grandparents (Access Rights) 23 NOVEMBER 2010 192

It has also been suggested that there should be a National Insurance Contributions Bill presumption in law that children have a right to their grandparents, subject to the appropriate protections I Second Reading mentioned earlier. One recent proposal, which is worthy of further investigation, is that children should have, at Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Before I the very least, an automatic right to letterbox contact call the Minister, I inform the House that Mr Speaker with their grandparents while proceedings in the courts has not selected the reasoned amendment tabled in the are progressing. In the case of a bereaved grandparent, name of the Opposition. there is a strong argument that the grandparent, who is often the child’s only link to that side of the family, should inherit the right that previously existed for the 4.44 pm parent. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David I know that this is not an easy issue, and that the Gauke): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Government are already examining it through the family Second time. law review, which is due to report next year. As I said at The Bill before us consists of two parts. The first part the beginning of my speech, my own grandparents were introduces a 1% increase in the rate of national insurance incredibly important to me. I know that for many contributions from April next year, as announced by people the role that their grandparents play in their lives the previous Government, although let me assure my is one that they value for the rest of their lives. It is right hon. and hon. Friends that we will reverse the appalling when grandchildren are used as a tool in impact of this jobs tax through an increase in the divorce or in separation. That is why I would like to see employer national insurance threshold. We have already implemented the changes that I have outlined, so that announced the increase in the income tax personal we can better protect the rights of grandparents and of allowance. grandchildren. Question put and agreed to. Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I thank Ordered, the Minister for giving way. What is the net impact on That Andrew Percy, Tracey Crouch, Justin Tomlinson, employers of the 1% increase offset by the increase in Tom Blenkinsop, Mr Gregory Campbell, Karen Bradley, threshold? What is the impact on individual businesses? James Wharton, Greg Mulholland, Chris Skidmore, Martin Vickers, Mr Brian Binley and Craig Whittaker Mr Gauke: Compared with the plans that we inherited, present the Bill. the impact of the increase in threshold will be such that Andrew Percy accordingly presented the Bill. employers will pay £3 billion less in employer’s national Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on insurance contributions. The overall reduction of the Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 110). burden on employment will be £6 billion as a consequence of the overall package.

Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Will the Minister confirm, however, that about £1.4 billion is not being compensated for by the threshold? I want us to be clear. He says that he has offset the threshold, but he has offset only about £3 billion, not the whole amount of the rise.

Mr Gauke: The fact is that the Labour party would have raised the full amount. We are offsetting £3 billion, which will be most helpful for employers whose employees earn under £20,000. The package is good for employment and, given the fiscal mess that we inherited, I am very proud that this Government are able to reform national insurance contributions exactly as we set out in our manifesto at the general election, and in the coalition agreement. As far as we can deduce it, the Labour party’s position is that it wants to do more to reduce the deficit by raising taxation and it does not believe in increasing VAT, which will bring in £13 billion a year. We can assume only that it would favour greater increases in national insurance contributions than it had already set out. We are not going to take any lectures; this Government have managed to reverse a very painful and damaging policy that would have meant employers’ contributions rising for every single employee paying national insurance—and in a way that would have damaged jobs in this country. 193 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 194

Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): Is the Minister The Bill sets out how these rises will apply to the aware that the proposals in the Bill discriminate against main rates of class 1 national insurance contributions. many areas—of London, in particular—with above-average The employer rate will rise from 12.8 to 13.8% and the unemployment? Will he explain to people in my employee main rate will rise from 11 to 12%. The constituency, where according to the Library there is 1% increase will also apply to class 1A and 1B contributions already 6.6% unemployment, why on earth the national that are paid on benefits in kind and pay-as-you-earn insurance contribution holiday does not apply to them? settlement agreements. The same 1% rise will apply to class 4 contributions paid by the self-employed, which Mr Gauke: The hon. Gentleman brings me on to the will rise from 8 to 9%. Taking into account the increase second part, to do with the national insurance holiday, in the personal allowances and employer threshold, the which applies on a regional basis. If I can develop my net effect of these changes will reverse the damaging arguments, I will turn in some detail to the precise point £6 billion-a-year net increase in the cost of labour that he has set out. planned by Labour Members. Our package of measures entirely reverses this increase. Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab) rose— Compared with the plans that this Government inherited, no changes are being made to the rates. More than Mr Gauke: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but £3 billion a year is being returned to employers through before I do, may I congratulate him on his long delayed the threshold increase, and even more to individuals but much deserved promotion to the Labour Front Bench? through the increase in the personal allowance. Our actions will mean that some 880,000 low earners in the UK will be taken out of income tax altogether. Stephen Pound: That is extremely generous of the Minister. All I can say is that if he was surprised, imagine how I felt. Mr Love: The hon. Gentleman mentions low earners. Of course, the thing that the Conservatives did not put The Minister just gave the figure for receipts following in their manifesto was that they would raise VAT. They on from the increase in VAT. Are his figures based on talked about national insurance being a tax on jobs, but current patterns of consumption or on an anticipated is it not correct to say that the rise in VAT will destroy level of consumption? Most economists would say that more jobs than the national insurance increase would the VAT increase will depress demand and reduce have done? consumption. Mr Gauke: No. We agree with the view of Tony Blair Mr Gauke: The sums are based on the assessment and, apparently, the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer made by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility that VAT is the right tax to raise if one wants to get a at the time of the Budget. I hope that that provides substantial sum of money. The hon. Gentleman will some clarification to the hon. Gentleman. find that most economists take the view that in terms of Part 1 of the Bill provides for changes, which the the impact on jobs, increasing employers’national insurance previous Government announced in two instalments, contributions is far more damaging than any increase to national insurance contributions from next April. in VAT. Initially, a 0.5% increase in rates was announced in the As a result of the package of measures that we are 2008 pre-Budget report. That was then changed to a putting in place, employees earning under £35,000 a 1% increase in the pre-Budget report of the following year. year will pay less in income tax and national insurance I am sure that Members will remember that reversing contributions overall, and employers will pay less national the most significant impacts of those rate rises was a insurance on employees earning under £20,000 a year. key issue at the general election. The Federation of Small As well as the 880,000 low earners taken out of income Businesses said that the policy would cost 57,000 jobs. tax, almost 1 million low earners will no longer pay Thirty business leaders supported our campaign to national insurance contributions, while the number of reverse the policy. When the letter from those 30 business low earners for whom employers pay no national insurance leaders—many other business leaders followed shortly—was contributions will rise by about 650,000. It is also worth published, Tony Blair apparently considered that for mentioning that people who will now be exempt from Labour the game was up. Thankfully, he was right, and paying national insurance will retain the same entitlement we now have in place a Government determined to to contributory benefits. However, tackling the deficit bring down the deficit but also to put in place conditions remains the priority, and the benefits to low earners favourable to private sector-led growth. could be achieved only through the increase in national In June, we announced our plan to reverse the most insurance contribution rates included in the Bill. This damaging aspects of Labour’s jobs tax. There was a decision is fair and progressive, and it will help to choice how best to do this—for example, we could have support the poorest and most vulnerable in society. cancelled the rate and threshold rises—but we have Let me turn to part 2 of the Bill. In the June Budget, chosen the option that best protects low earners. In the my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced an emergency Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor employer national insurance contribution holiday for confirmed that national insurance contribution rates new businesses in countries and regions with a high would rise by 1%, that the personal allowance would dependency on the public sector. This holiday will apply increase by £1,000 from next April, and that the employer across Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and many national insurance contribution threshold would rise by regions of England—the north-east, the north-west, £21 a week plus indexation. The reform of employer Yorkshire and the Humber, the west midlands and east national insurance contributions is exactly as set out in midlands, and the south-west. Those areas have a higher the 2010 Conservative party manifesto. proportion of jobs in the public sector than the rest of 195 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 196 the country, and as we take the much-needed steps to bureaucracy and the difficulty of policing the scheme, rebalance our economy, it is vital that they benefit from but Robert Chote, while he was still at the Institute for additional support. Fiscal Studies, described the regional relief scheme as “complicated…prone to avoidance and oddly targeted.” Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): There I have had a number of representations to that effect. is no doubt that one welcomes this package of measures, What assurance can my hon. Friend give that the scheme which will help the lower-paid in particular. However, will not be accompanied by an enormous amount of will my hon. Friend revisit the Government’s decision extra regulation and a much higher compliance burden? to exclude businesses in the south-east from the national insurance holiday? Otherwise, it could be seen to Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend raises a fair point. We are discriminate against local entrepreneurs there and hit determined that in administering the scheme, Her Majesty’s the areas that need higher employment. Revenue and Customs will adopt a light touch as much Mr Gauke: I understand my hon. Friend’s point, but as possible. The problems of bureaucracy and avoidance the fact is that we have limited resources and have would be much greater if we tried to drill down to inherited a legacy in which the private sector is relatively constituency or local authority level as opposed to strong in some areas, such as his constituency and mine, regional level. I assure him that our assessment is that but much weaker in others. At a time when we cannot gains for participating businesses will greatly outweigh rely on massive public spending, and when the public any administrative costs that they may face. sector will have to find economies, it is perfectly reasonable that we have adopted the approach of focusing on areas George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): It occurs where there is high dependence on the public sector. to me that this is a particularly prescribed aspect of the Bill with three particular areas identified. Will the Minister Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): I am very supportive consider taking powers to himself that allowed him not of the proposal in general terms, but when the Government just to exclude areas, but to keep a register of those he came to their decision on it, did they consider extending felt could be excluded, therefore allowing some flexibility? it to existing businesses with very small work forces of Should labour markets deteriorate markedly in certain one or two people as opposed to simply new starts, and areas, he could then revisit his decision and decide to did they consider what the cost of that might have been? support certain areas.

Mr Gauke: The focus of the policy has always been Mr Gauke: What we must bear in mind is that we on start-up businesses. It is an attempt to encourage have limited resources. If we were to extend this measure new businesses to be set up, given where we are in the to every part of the country, the cost would increase by economic cycle and the need to encourage private sector around 70%—in other words, £660 million over the growth. That is why the Conservative party’s policy course of three years. For the reasons that I set out, it before the general election was focused on start-ups. would be difficult to drill this down to very precise After the election we considered how best to introduce areas. the policy, and came to the view that we should include the regions where the private sector was at its weakest. Mr Love rose—

Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): If the Mr Gauke: I must make some more progress. scheme cannot be extended to an entire region, does the If we are to move to a model of economic growth Exchequer Secretary accept that there will be pockets of founded on private sector enterprise and investment, it that region, such as my constituency, that would benefit is important that we encourage the formation of new massively from it? The area has historically had very business. For that reason, the holiday applies only to low new business start-up rates and would benefit from businesses that have been set up since 22 June, the date what I think is an excellent scheme. When I asked his of the Budget. To ensure affordability, the holiday is Department about the costs of administering the scheme limited to the first 10 employees taken on in the first in such areas, it said that they would be prohibitive, but 12 months of business. For each of those workers, the I cannot understand why that would be. Can he elaborate holiday will last for a single year, unless the closing date on that? for the scheme—5 September 2013—is reached before Mr Gauke: If we were to choose precisely where the the 12 months is up. policy applied on a much more closely defined geographical basis, we would have difficulties such as distortive behaviour, John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): I have problems in enforcing the policy, the bureaucracy that listened very carefully to the Minister. Some 40% of the may be involved, the need to establish where a company’s people in employment in my constituency work in the principal place of business was, and the difficulty of public sector. I represent some of the most deprived policing the scheme. Also, labour markets tend to be wards in London, which means some of the most somewhat larger than constituency or even local authority deprived in the country, yet my constituency will be areas. My hon. Friend is right to highlight the circumstances excluded from the holiday, whereas certain leafier parts, in Portsmouth, but there are neighbouring seats with a outside London and the south-east, will be included. very low level of public sector employment and quite a high level of private sector employment. Such labour Mr Gauke: A labour market is not restricted to market flexibility can exist. particular constituencies. The fact is that the private sector is much stronger in London and the south-east Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): I take my hon. and East Anglia, and it is right that we focus this help at Friend’s points about the limited resources, the risk of a regional level. 197 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 198

Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): I welcome this measure. policy, and I encourage hon. Members for any of the It is just the thing to spur on the private sector. In relevant regions to notify businesses in their areas. The evidence to the Treasury Committee, Alan Clarke said Government and our policy aim to help businesses and that it was a “particularly encouraging measure”. those who want to start a business and get it going. In Mr Whiting, of the Chartered Institute of Taxation, contrast, the previous Government increased such taxes. said that it was a Start-up and existing businesses throughout the country “worthwhile experiment for the small, new business with new faced rising taxes and employers’ national insurance employees.” contributions, which was a particularly deeply damaging This is just the sort of measure to encourage the private tax. sector that the House should be passing. The Bill is an important part of the Government’s plan to reduce Labour’s taxation, help those on the Mr Gauke: I am grateful for that intervention. We lowest incomes, and support private enterprise and have to build this private sector recovery. This measure employment in the parts of the country that need them is a useful contribution, particularly to those regions most. It is a simple and important Bill, and I commend where the private sector is not as strong as elsewhere. It it to the House. is a transitional measure, scheduled to end in three years. We are committed to monitoring and evaluating 5.7 pm its effectiveness over that period to ensure its success. It is not our intention for this policy disproportionately Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): I am grateful to the to benefit businesses that employ highly paid staff. For Minister for his exposition of the Bill. We will test that reason, the maximum amount that an employer aspects of it in Committee and at other stages in its can profit from any single employee is limited to £5,000. passage. As he said, it divides effectively into two parts. That cap ensures that the policy will not distort European The first part is the increase in national insurance Union markets and that it complies with state aid contributions by 1%, which we will support because we legislation. We do not expect any significant competitive want to ensure that we protect services and support our disadvantage to arise either for existing businesses or economy. The second part introduces a three-year regional for new businesses in regions where the holiday does not national insurance holiday for new employers. As the apply. The Bill also makes provision for the administration Minister said, many businesses will qualify for their first of this measure. Businesses benefiting from the holiday 10 employees in their first year of business; I shall can withhold the employer contributions from the monthly return later in detail to the question of the regions and payments they make to HMRC. If the payment cannot areas that will not qualify. be withheld, the businesses can apply to HMRC for a Let us first consider the national insurance contributions. refund. That will help to minimise employers’ costs as The Minister rightly said that this policy was set out well as the costs of delivery. both in the Labour manifesto and elsewhere in the period The Government expect that hundreds of thousands before the general election in May. My right hon. Friend of businesses will benefit from the measure over the the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), next three years. In the Budget, we estimated that new the then Chancellor, announced in the pre-Budget statement businesses would save hundreds of millions of pounds on 9 December 2009 that the previous Government worth of national insurance contributions during the would increase national insurance contributions by 1% lifetime of the scheme, giving them the ability to hire to protect public services. We had a choice, and we were more staff, expand their business or invest in the recovery. straight about it both before and during the election. Raising national insurance contributions was a tough Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): The Government decision, but we ensured that we would protect those correctly emphasise the importance of the voluntary earning less than £20,000 a year. sector, and it is likely that there will be a surge in the The Conservatives condemned that national insurance number of charities that are set up. I declare an interest rise throughout the election, but—surprise, surprise!—they as a trustee of Stafford Works, which is a new charity. have now decided to go ahead with it. In the Conservative Will the Minister confirm whether charitable trusts manifesto, which I have come to recognise is not worth and companies are included in the scope of part 2 of the paper it was written on, the party committed itself the Bill? to raising the thresholds for national insurance by £24 a week, the upper earnings limit by £29 a week, and the Mr Gauke: A charitable entity that is located in one secondary threshold at which employers start paying of the relevant regions and that carries on a trade, national insurance by £21 a week. I look forward to vocation or business will benefit. That is likely to apply seeing the details in the secondary legislation. to, for example, shops that are run by charities. Such My intervention on the Exchequer Secretary showed entities must meet that criterion to benefit, but not all that although the Government are raising the thresholds, charities will necessarily do so. there is still a shortfall of about £1.4 billion in employer national insurance contributions. The Labour party Mr Hanson: Will the Minister tell the House, for the was open about that in the run-up to, and during, the sake of clarity, how many businesses have to date applied general election, but the Conservative party was not. In for the holiday? my view, this is all smoke and mirrors.

Mr Gauke: At this early stage, we have had around Mr Gauke: Page 8 of our manifesto stated that we 1,000 applications, but we expect more as awareness of would the policy becomes greater and as businesses contact “raise the secondary threshold at which employers start paying their professional advisers. We are keen to publicise the National Insurance by £21 a week.” 199 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 200

The secondary legislation will increase the secondary our proceedings, particularly when the comments are threshold at which employers start paying national insurance then referred to without having been recorded. Will the by £21 a week, so we are doing exactly what we said in hon. Lady make her point from the Dispatch Box, so the manifesto. that the right hon. Gentleman can answer it?

Mr Hanson: But there were no caveats about a shortfall The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine in the Budget proposals of about £1.4 billion. I think it Greening): My point was that the Labour party would is smoke and mirrors—and, as my hon. Friend the have increased NICs for absolutely everybody. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love) said, it is coupled with the increase in VAT from next year. The VAT rise Mr Hanson: The hon. Lady knows that that was a will impact more than three times as much as the clear and honest policy that we put to the electorate. increase to national insurance contributions would have The Government have now introduced proposals for a done, and will affect 250,000 jobs. national insurance holiday for new businesses in certain regions. I will explore shortly why we think that that Charlie Elphicke: Will the right hon. Gentleman give choice is unfair in the context of the resources the way? Government are trying to save.

Mr Hanson: I will give way to the hon. Member for Justine Greening: Can the right hon. Gentleman tell Dover (Charlie Elphicke); the national insurance policy us whether it is still his party’s policy to go ahead with will not apply in his constituency. those NIC rises?

Charlie Elphicke: The right hon. Gentleman is right Mr Hanson: I have said what I have said. We were that the national insurance holiday will not apply in my open and honest during the election campaign, and we constituency—a matter that I regret. Nevertheless, I will support the rise proposed in the Bill, because we welcome the fact that 1,400 of the least well-off people expected to do that. During the election campaign, the in my constituency will be taken out of tax altogether. It Economic Secretary and the Exchequer Secretary attacked seems that he opposes the increase in the personal the NIC rise without proposing the alternative that they allowance and would rather cut national insurance, have seen through in practice. which we originally planned to do. Instead, we are Let us put that aside, because the key issue before the helping the least well-off. Surely he would welcome House is the payment holiday. We do not believe that it that. is being proposed fairly, honestly or openly, and we do not believe that it will help the poorest and most deprived Mr Hanson: I look forward to the hon. Gentleman areas of the UK, which in great part are excluded from going back to Dover to explain why he is supporting the scheme. Of the top 12 most deprived local authorities not only a Bill that does not give a national insurance on the economic deprivation index, no fewer than seven holiday to his constituents, but the VAT rise elsewhere will be excluded from the payment holiday. The seven in the Budget proposals—we need to look at that in the boroughs of Hackney, Newham, Tower Hamlets, Islington, round—which will impact on pensioners, the low-paid Barking and Dagenham, Haringey and Lambeth are and everybody in his community. This is not a topic for excluded from the scheme. today, but the debate on the national insurance rise was open and honest on our side. During and after the In his statement on 6 September, the Exchequer election, the Conservative party argued against the rise, Secretary said: but it is now implementing it. On top of that, it is not “The Government are determined that all parts of the UK meeting the objectives in its manifesto and has increased benefit from sustainable economic growth”.—[Official Report, VAT. I think that a VAT rise is a regressive tax policy 6 September 2010; Vol. 515, c. 1WS.] that will hit the poorest hardest, but that is the choice If we are having a holiday from national insurance that the Conservative party has made. contributions, I do not understand how excluding those I want to focus most of my remarks on the second areas from the payment holiday will do that. part of the Bill. The decision to introduce a regional I want to challenge the Government’s logic. They employer national insurance holiday is welcome, but it claim that the reasoning behind the policy is that areas specifically excludes new businesses in Greater London, outside London, the south-east and the east are more the south-east and the eastern region. We tabled a reliant on public sector employment. Will the Exchequer reasoned amendment that has not been selected, but Secretary confirm that that is his logic? which would have declined to give a Second Reading to the Bill because of those exclusions. I sense that the Mr Gauke indicated assent. hon. Members for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt), for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) and for Basildon Mr Hanson: The Minister has confirmed that. and Billericay (Mr Baron), who spoke earlier, will have Tomorrow’s business leaders who want to start businesses expressed their concerns about how the choices on the in the constituencies of Oxford East, of Luton North, national insurance holiday were made. [Interruption.] of Lewisham East, of Canterbury, of Southampton, The Economic Secretary to the Treasury says that we Test, of Eltham, of West Ham, of North Thanet, of would have increased national insurance contributions Hackney North and Stoke Newington, of Tooting, of across the board. Islington North, of Dulwich and West Norwood, and of Brighton, Kemptown will miss out. I mention those Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. We cannot have constituencies specifically because they are in the top comments shouted across the Floor from a sedentary 10% in the country with the highest percentage of position. It makes it very difficult for Hansard to record public sector employment. 201 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 202

[Mr Hanson] but Portsmouth North will not. Neither will Brent North, Edmonton or Lewisham. The constituency of As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are 650 my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead constituencies. His policy is supposed to help compensate (John Cryer) will not get that benefit either— for possible loss of employment in the public sector. Those concerns have been reflected today, and I pay Stephen Pound: Neither will Ealing. tribute to the hon. Members for Portsmouth North, for Meon Valley and for Basildon and Billericay, who have Mr Hanson: Indeed, and neither will the constituencies defended their constituencies and raised their concerns of my hon. Friends the Members for West Ham (Lyn about how the policy will be applied. Brown) and for Ilford South (Mike Gapes). We are If there is to be a holiday, it can be applied in talking about encouraging growth and promoting job different ways. It could be applied regionally, as the opportunities, and how we split the cake is very important, Minister has done, or on the basis of unemployment as the hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) has levels or regional levels of public sector employment per pointed out. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent constituency, instead of the blanket regional approach North (Barry Gardiner) mentioned the different figures that the Minister has chosen. for jobseeker’s allowance across the country. We need to address those significant differences. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): The shadow Minister has heard that rolling the scheme out across the entire Mr Love: For the record, unemployment in my country would cost an additional £660 million. Will he constituency is about the 50th highest in the country, explain whether he would propose to raise that by and my constituents want to know why they will not be increasing our deficit, by cutting expenditure—in which getting the benefit of these measures in the Bill. The case what expenditure would he cut—or by raising fallacy behind the Government’s argument is that the taxes, in which case what taxes would he raise? affluent part of the region will raise employment in my constituency, but all the evidence shows that there are Mr Hanson: That is a fair and valid point. Yesterday, hard-core pockets of unemployment, and that even in reply to a parliamentary question, the Minister during the economic good times over the past 13 years, emphasised the cost of the scheme for the regions unemployment there did not come down. The only way covered. My purpose today is to challenge the Minister’s to address that fallacy is to apply the provisions of the logic for allocating the resources for the payment holiday Bill to all the regions of the country, as my hon. Friend to the regions that he has selected, because that distribution suggests. does not necessarily reflect the level of deprivation or public sector employment. The cake that the Minister Mr Hanson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The has allocated may be sliced in several ways, but he has question that the Minister needs to reflect on, here or in sliced it to exclude the constituencies represented by my Committee, is how we should split the national insurance hon. Friends in London and those who represent seats holiday cake. There are many ways of doing that, but in the south. his way is unfair to the areas of greatest need, to the areas with the highest public sector employment, and to Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Will my right areas that contain seas of prosperity as well as deprivation. hon. Friend give way? The Minister has mentioned areas of high public sector employment, but I have already shown him the Mr Hanson: How can I resist my hon. Friend from fallacy behind his argument as it affects many of our London? constituents throughout the country.Figures for jobseeker’s allowance show that the rate of unemployment is currently Barry Gardiner: Is my right hon. Friend aware that higher in London than in the south-west, part of which Tottenham, which has the eighth highest number of is represented by the hon. Member for Central Devon, jobseeker’s allowance claimants in the country, will not in North Wales, where my constituency is, or in Scotland, benefit, although Tatton, which has the 509th highest where it is 3.8%. Unemployment is also higher in London number of JSA claimants, will receive the NI break? Is than in the east midlands or the north-west—[Interruption.] that fair? The Economic Secretary to the Treasury did not take your strictures to heart, Madam Deputy Speaker. She is Mr Hanson: My hon. Friend makes a very valid continuing to heckle from a sedentary position. I would point. I do not begrudge the people of Tatton anything, be happy to give way to her if she wants to intervene. and I will tell him why. I was once a Labour councillor However we measure unemployment, the levels of in the Tatton constituency. I represented the ward of jobseeker’s allowance claims in London are higher than Rudheath and Whatcroft, and I was the leader of the in the south-west, Wales, Scotland, the east midlands Labour council that covered half the constituency at and the north-west. Indeed, they are above the UK that time. I have absolute faith in those areas, but there average. That is a key point when we are thinking about is deprivation in Tatton. In fact, Neil Hamilton, a how to divide the cake up. former Member of this House for that area, was my pair when I first came here. Such is life! But that is Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): I another story. must say that the enthusiasm being shown by the right Tatton has one of the lowest levels of unemployment hon. Gentleman, and by so many Members on the in the country. That constituency, which is represented Opposition Benches, for this fantastic Conservative policy, by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, will get the benefit or coalition policy, on national insurance holidays is of the national insurance holiday to start 10 employees, absolutely heart-warming. 203 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 204

Mr Hanson: The hon. Gentleman will know that If we are to make the scheme fair, taking the point North West Leicestershire will benefit from the scheme, that the hon. Member for Central Devon made, we but I hope that he will look slightly beyond the confines should divvy up the benefits that the Government are of Leicestershire and talk to the hon. Members for bringing forward in a way that tackles the real central Portsmouth North, for Meon Valley and for Basildon issues of deprivation and unemployment. and Billericay, who have all expressed concern about the proposals. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC): We as a party welcome the initiative, and I am Charlie Elphicke rose— sure the Government will be happy to hear that. It is an important countervailing measure, and we need further Mr Hanson: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can tell us such measures. Have the Opposition assessed how much whether he is in favour of his constituents not having it would cost to roll out the scheme as they suggest in this benefit at this time. their amendment, and how that would be funded? Mr Hanson: If the scheme were applied to Greater Charlie Elphicke: I spoke on the subject of regionalisation London, the east and the south-east, and taken up at in the Finance Bill, and we have to take the rough with the level that the Minister expects, it would—according the smooth. Does the right hon. Gentleman welcome to figures that he gave me only last night—cost about the fact that in places such as Delyn, 500 new jobs have £660 million. He says that there are about 1,000 interested been created in the past six months? In Dover 500 new companies to date, but I do not know what the take-up jobs have also been created in the past six months. would be. Across the country as a whole, about 300,000 new private sector jobs have been created in the past six The cost could be offset by new employment and new months. Does he not welcome that? taxes, because let us remember that the scheme under discussion is for new businesses, so the holiday period Mr Hanson: I think I know Delyn better than the offset will be a cost to the Treasury, but it could be offset hon. Gentleman. If he would like to come to me to talk by increased growth, increased taxation paid by individuals to the 320 people who lost their jobs yesterday at who are employed and by the increased growth of Headland Foods in Flint, I should be happy to discuss businesses. The cost of the scheme downstream, at the the issue. That happened only yesterday in my constituency, end of the three years, is debatable, but, equally, there so I will not take any lessons from him about what are ways in which we could divvy up the money that the happens on my patch in north Wales. Minister has allocated to the regions of Wales—one of which the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr I will tell the hon. Gentleman straight away, however, (Jonathan Edwards) represents—and all others. We could that West Ham has 6.8% unemployment, Tottenham think about whether to divvy them up differently, so as 7.4% and Camberwell 6%. That is more than three to tackle areas of high unemployment in London or—if times the level of unemployment in Tatton, in Richmond the Minister’s criterion is high public sector employment— (Yorks), represented by the Foreign Secretary, and in areas with high public sector employment, such as those Derbyshire Dales, represented by the Government Chief that I mentioned. They are in the 10% of areas with the Whip. Indeed, it is four times the level in Sheffield highest such employment, and include seats that the Hallam, represented by the Deputy Prime Minister. All current scheme will not cover. those areas will benefit from the scheme, while areas of severe deprivation in London will not. Andrew Bridgen: Will the right hon. Gentleman clarify Let us look at the constituencies of coalition Cabinet his statement? Did he just suggest that we cut taxes to members. Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk has 2.8% increase growth in order to increase the tax take overall? unemployment, North East Somerset has 1.6%, Tatton If so, I welcome the right hon. Gentleman as a believer has 2.1%— in the Laffer curve.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): Will Mr Hanson: The hon. Gentleman knows that the the right hon. Gentleman give way? Opposition have a growth strategy. We had one prior to the election. Mr Hanson: In a moment. [Interruption.] Not North The measure under discussion has been proposed to East Somerset. The hon. Gentleman knows that I meant give new businesses a national insurance holiday to help the Defence Secretary’s constituency. I am sure that the them with their costs for three years. The Minister hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) estimates the costs for the three regions as £650 million will eventually make the Cabinet, however, because he is to £660 million, based on the scheme’s anticipated an assiduous attender of the Chamber. roll-out in those regions. My simple point is that these Richmond (Yorks) has 1.8% unemployment, Derbyshire are new employment jobs and new businesses, so they Dales has 1.6%, Rushcliffe has 2%, Sheffield Hallam will presumably entail new employment areas and new has 1.8%, Sutton Coldfield has 2.6%, North Shropshire people employed to fill them, who will pay new taxes. has 2.7%, and Inverness has 2.3%. All the Cabinet All that is part of the growth strategy, which will be hit members representing those constituencies will benefit hard by VAT increases and public spending cuts. That is from the payment holiday, while colleagues representing a separate issue. seats in Walthamstow, Islington, Mitcham, Luton North, If we are thinking about a payment holiday, the Luton South, Tottenham, Tooting, Dulwich, Streatham, question for me is whether it will achieve its objectives Hampstead, Vauxhall, Hammersmith and the two in by being available in the areas of the highest public Hackney will not. sector employment, or whether it will go to areas such 205 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 206

[Mr Hanson] something that the Labour Government never introduced in their 13 years in power, yet the minute we introduce as Tatton, Richmond or other wealthy areas of the it, they say: “Well, it doesn’t really go far enough”. We north and midlands. In those areas jobs will be created, have heard 25 minutes of “We want a better Bill, but we but the people who most need them will not be able to never backed it”. Labour has still not proposed to make get them. That is the crucial issue for debate. this provision part of its own policy, yet it wants it Without making a party political point of it, I would extended to other parts of the country. argue that Government Members have participated Unlike the Labour party I welcome part 2 of the Bill, constructively both in previous debates on this subject comprising clauses 4 to 11, just as I welcome any and in today’s debate. John Walker, the chairman of the reduction in the burden of taxation on small businesses, Federation of Small Businesses has said: even if it is described—rather unfortunately, I think—as “With small firms in the South East most likely to be working a “holiday”. Only in the weird and wonderful world of below capacity, this shows how wrong the Government is to not Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs could the process include this vital region, as well as the East and London, in its of allowing a business to keep more of its own income proposals for a National Insurance holiday for start-up businesses.” and turnover be described as some sort of holiday. I I have already said that we are not going to vote against rather regret that this phrase has now crept into the the Bill—although if the reasoned amendment had legislation. Small businesses pay too much tax, so anything been selected we would have voted for that. However, it we can do to reduce that burden has to be helpful. Why? is important both to consider the issue in the round and Because the bulk of private sector job creation has for the Minister to reflect on the concerns expressed, by come, and will continue to come, from small companies. his hon. Friends as well as by Labour Members, about Sadly, it is large companies that continue to reduce their the application of the national insurance holiday. costs, to strip out unnecessary manpower and to outsource At the same time as implementing this Bill, the Minister various functions, while it is small businesses that have is scrapping completely the regional growth strategy been, and will be, the engine of job creation. for different departments, and scrapping the regional development agencies and replacing them with local Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Is not enterprise partnerships, which in my view will not help the main engine for job growth among small and medium- with regional development to the extent that we would sized enterprises the expansion of existing SMEs rather want. The Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the than the creation of new ones, although of course that hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff) has is an important engine as well? Would the hon. Gentleman said that that sends out the wrong message about the favour the extension of the measure to new employees work that has been done. of existing SMEs? As he may know, and as I know from We need to look towards a better application of this personal experience, starting a business involves a number policy, and the Minister needs to reflect further on the of risks, and obviously this is one of the factors. An concerns expressed in our debate. Although we will established SME could probably do much more with disagree politically, I am most interested in ensuring the “holiday”. that any national insurance holiday is of benefit to the people who most need it. Sadly, the Bill misses the mark Michael Fallon: I was about to suggest that the measure in that respect, and fails to address those key issues. might well be extended. It is true that job creation I repeat that we will give the Bill a fair passage and comes from existing small businesses, although it also not vote against it this evening. We welcome the rise in comes from new ones. I think that we can find some national insurance, which we too would have implemented. common ground in that regard. We welcome the holiday provisions as far as they go, I have three main reasons for supporting the Bill. but they need further reflection, so we will take every First, I believe that it is the right way to help small opportunity in Committee to try to persuade the Minister businesses. It is not the only way, but I do not think that to look at more imaginative schemes, which might use the other ways that have been tried in the past—grants, the same amount of money in different ways, or extend loans, business link services, and a great deal of the holiday to areas where it would be a valued resource bureaucracy—are nearly as effective as allowing small and help reduce unemployment in the constituencies businesses to keep more of their own money, and to in the south-east, London and the east that most need employ more people more cheaply. Given that a that. Government cannot create jobs, this is the easiest, simplest I hope that what I have said is helpful to the Minister. and most effective way of encouraging businesses to I look forward to spending the next few weeks in take on more people. Committee with him, just as I have spent the last few My second reason for supporting the Bill, which is weeks in Committee with him and his colleagues on directly relevant to the intervention from the hon. Member various other Bills. To make a wholly non-partisan for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), is that it is clearly point, the Treasury appears to be one of the busiest future-proof. I note that the Opposition do not oppose Departments at the moment, and we are all having fun. it, either in principle or in detail; indeed, they want to I am sure that our discussions will shortly continue extend its provisions throughout the country. If it turned elsewhere. out to be spectacularly successful—and none of us in the House knows yet whether it will—its provisions 5.33 pm could be extended. At present, the scheme applies only for the first year of a new business, it is open for only Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): I am not alone in three years, it applies only to the first 10 employees, finding that a rather disappointing response—an untypically and it applies only to the regions that we have been disappointing response. Part 2 of the Bill introduces discussing. 207 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 208

If we discovered that the Bill really did encourage the discrimination, for example—we discourage firms from creation of more jobs and did not divert employment employing more women. There is a balance to be struck from existing businesses, it would be perfectly possible— therefore, and I think that needs to be reassessed every once the economy had recovered, we had closed off the few years. deficit that we inherited, and more money was available—to Small businesses in my constituency tell me that at extend the scheme in different ways. It would be possible, present they will do almost anything they can to avoid for example, to apply it to the first two years of a taking on new people, partly because of the difficulty of business. It can take longer than a year for a very small getting rid of them if they turn out to be unsuitable or business to establish itself. It would be possible to keep unreliable or if they are not prepared to work hard the scheme open for the whole of the current Parliament, enough, and partly because of the administrative costs matching the reductions that are sadly necessary in piled on them by the last Labour Government through, public sector employment to encourage private sector for instance, needing to check student loan repayments, employment alongside it. It would also be possible to child care reliefs and immigration status. When we apply it not simply to the first 10 employees but to, say, consider measures such as those in this Bill, we need to the first 20 or 30. I see nothing particularly magical be thinking all the time about how we can make it easier about the step change involved in employing that for businesses to employ people. 11th person. And yes, if the scheme really was working, This is a short Bill, and it would be wrong to overstate it might well prove desirable and cost-effective to start its effects. It must be considered in the context of the extending it to some of the other regions. I note that the other measures to help small businesses, such as the three excluded regions contain the south-east—my own reduction in their corporation tax rate, which I welcome, region—East Anglia and London, which currently contain and the extension of the guarantee scheme. I suspect half the number of all our small businesses. If small that the Bill will prove to be successful however, and, if businesses had already been successful in those regions, so, I hope that it will be the start of a much wider and perhaps, if costs allowed, it might be possible to extend deeper process of removing the barriers to growth, such the scheme in four or five years’ time if it worked as the thicket of regulation our small businesses have to particularly well. struggle through and the heavy burden of taxation that Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman said that there still inhibits too many of them. I welcome the Bill. was no step change between the 10th and 11th employees, and he was right. However, there is a huge step change 5.43 pm for a sole trader taking on his or her first employee. Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): I wish to Does the hon. Gentleman think that, if the scheme were concentrate on the situation facing my constituents and rolled out in the way that he suggests, it should be rolled many others in London. The House of Commons Library out to existing sole traders taking on their first employee, has published a note that is of great help to all who take which involves a huge commitment? an interest in the subject of today’s debate, and it says Michael Fallon: I am not sure whether someone would that, on the basis of International Labour Organisation remain a sole trader in those circumstances, but it is true measures of unemployment, the highest rates are in that becoming responsible for someone else’s payroll is London, the north-east and Yorkshire and the Humber, often the most difficult step for those who are self-employed where the figure is 9%. However, although the north-east or trading on their own account. I certainly think that and Yorkshire and the Humber are to benefit from the we should explore that possibility further. measures in question, London is entirely excluded. The third, and final, reason why I support the Bill is As has already been made clear, a number of boroughs an entirely different one. The Bill is quite rare in that it and constituencies in London have very high levels of recognises the rights of non-workers. I have never forgotten deprivation and unemployment. My borough, the London an encounter I had when I was representing a north-east borough of Redbridge, does not feature as one of the constituency. It occurred at the height of the engineering most deprived boroughs overall, but there are wards recession of the early 1980s, when the jobcentre manager within it, including three in my constituency, that are in in Darlington said to me, “There’s plenty of work the lowest decile for deprivation and need. Therefore, about, Mr Fallon, but very few jobs.” What he meant by the impact of any changes that discriminate against that was, of course, that the labour market had fossilised. Londoners, against small businesses in London and against So many restrictions and costs were involved in hiring ethnic minority businesses in London—the population extra labour that it was too expensive and too risky for distribution in this country means that London has a firms to take on more staff. Of course, the previous much greater concentration of people from all ethnic Conservative Government addressed that through a minorities—has to be borne in mind. These proposals range of liberalisations that tackled areas such as employee are inherently discriminatory; they are discriminatory rights, access to tribunals and restrictive practices, and I in their own terms and they therefore need to be seriously think that a Government need to do that every few questioned. years. They need to look again at the balance between The Federation of Small Businesses has sent me those who are fortunate enough to be in the labour some information about this matter. It points out how market and enjoying the various job protections which more than half of firms in London, 64% of small this House has given them successively over the years businesses in the south-east and 58% of firms in the east and those who are excluded from the labour market, of England are likely to operating under capacity. It because those who are excluded have rights too, and if states that the regional discrimination involved in these we make it increasingly difficult for companies to fire proposals is based on people, then we inevitably make it increasingly difficult “a crude assessment as it does not account for areas within these for companies to hire people. If we build in unlimited regions that would really benefit from policies that would help awards for various types of discrimination—sexual bolster employment.” 209 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 210

[Mike Gapes] On part 1 and the increases in rates, a point that has not been made but that is worthy of comment concerns If the FSB opposes the proposals, why on earth are the the timing. Opposition Members had considered the Government not listening to it, given that they claim increase when we were at a flaky stage in the recovery of always to be listening to small businesses. As I speak, the economy and when there was concern that there the Essex FSB is having a meeting, which I am obviously might be a double-dip recession. To move the timing not able to attend, and one of the issues it will discuss is from June of this year to April of next year is to be precisely this discrimination against the east of England, commended and it is absolutely the right and responsible the south of England and, in particular, London. thing to do. Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): The point needs My speech will focus principally on part 2 and the to be made that the Minister has explained that a so-called “holiday” for new businesses, a provision that significant extra cost is involved in making this a national I wholeheartedly support. It is absolutely right that new programme. As the Member of Parliament for Watford, businesses should be given a helping hand, particularly an area that faces significant unemployment problems, now. I am fortunate that my constituency of Newton I would say that it would be very nice to have this Abbot is in Devon and therefore in the south-west, programme, but the Minister has explained that the cost which means that my new businesses will benefit from involved would be more £660 million. I am pleased these new measures. The Government estimate the benefit to see this principle being used, because I believe that across the country at £940 million. That is well worth selective regional policy can be used in the future. having and I am delighted to see Opposition Members I hope that the Government’s localisation agenda will supporting it. The cost in the grand scheme of things is mean that holidays and similar tax benefits for rates will relatively small and the administration costs of £12 million be extended to specific areas. But for the moment, can be set against the overall administrative costs for because of the mess that the Labour Government left us this tax, which stand at £1.54 billion. The estimated with— benefit for individual businesses will be £2,000 per business with a rough administration cost of £166. That Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman strikes me as very good value for money. will resume his seat. Interventions are supposed to I want to take up a point that has been made by a be brief. number of Members on both sides of the House. In my Mike Gapes: I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should view and, clearly, that of others, micro-businesses desperately perhaps make his own speech, rather than intervene on need help. In the south-west, 91% of businesses employ mine. only five people—small businesses that are a large part The FSB makes clear its concern about not only the of the business community. In my part of the world, regional variation, but the fact that the proposals do issues will arise because of the changes to the public not deal with existing firms. My right hon. Friend the sector, so helping micro-businesses will be very important Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) also made that point because it is more likely than not that, because of their from the Front Bench. The FSB says that sheer number, they will take on those who are made redundant and the NEETs, as we call them—those not “surveys have found that 57% of small businesses without employees would like to employ in the future, which could create…800,000 in employment, education or training—who clearly need new jobs”. a helping hand. It also points out that many small businesses do not survive for more than two or three years, so by Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Has discriminating against existing small businesses that the hon. Lady realised that the proposed holiday does have just been established the proposals are another not apply to existing small businesses? difficulty for that sector. The FSB claims that, on average, its 213,000 members each employ seven members of Anne Marie Morris: I thank the shadow Minister, but staff and that most employ five or fewer. It points out that is precisely my point. I would like to ask the that if they were able to get the support that is being Treasury and the Treasury team to extend the provision made available only to certain businesses in certain to those businesses in the fullness of time. regions, there would be the potential for much greater In particular, we should clarify what we mean by a assistance. Therefore, the essence of the proposals is micro-business. The European Union defines it is a that if the Government are going down this route, they business with 10 employees and a turnover of less than are doing so in a way that discriminates against certain £2 million. For my money, that is a very big business. In regions and certain communities in the country, and my part of the world, micro-businesses are really very that discriminates between different businesses. small. The hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart The essence of the proposal, we are told, is that we Hosie), who is no longer with us, suggested that we are all in this together but, sadly, it is yet another might think about a small business of two employees example of where we are not. We are all in it together, that was considering adding one extra employee. The but we are not all getting the assistance to deal with the point was that it is a big step for a sole trader or problems that the Government will create when they husband and wife team to take on that extra member of slash the public sector. staff, and it is there that we need the help. I suggest that the Treasury urgently considers extending 5.50 pm the provision to micro-businesses, not in this Bill but in Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): I am a future Budget. I cannot see why micro-businesses delighted to have the opportunity to contribute to this should not be covered across the country rather than in debate and I offer my wholehearted support to the regions. My plea is that micro-businesses, which are Government for this excellent Bill. different to small businesses, should be properly represented 211 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 212 and that we should consider what we in this Parliament regional growth fund, but, no, that would be a logical mean by a micro-business rather than necessarily taking step. Instead, the Government have decided to exclude the European definition. We should also consider what London from their national insurance holiday and thereby help we can give them. exclude many communities that are highly dependent As for the point made by the hon. Member for Ilford on public sector jobs—the very communities that are South (Mike Gapes), it is not just about tax assistance, grappling with the uncertainty that the Government’s but about regulatory assistance. Some very small businesses approach to public services has created. are drowning in legislation, much of which is simply not Let us take as an example the area I represent in appropriate for them. south-east London. The public sector accounts for 38% of all jobs in Lewisham, a figure that is 11% higher Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): My hon. than the national average. If we take the boroughs of Friend is making some excellent points, which, as someone Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth and Croydon together, who used to own a small business, I recognise. Micro- we realise that the public sector work force amounts to businesses also have the opportunity to take on apprentices, 185,000 people, significantly more than the public sector and we should encourage small businesses to take advantage work force of the whole of Tyne and Wear. of that. Lewisham also has more people chasing local jobs Anne Marie Morris: I thank my hon. Friend for that than almost anywhere else in the country. In October, contribution and I absolutely agree. there were more than 587 vacancies in Lewisham compared I ask the Treasury team and the Minister, after the with 9,475 jobseeker’s allowance claimants. Let me again successful outcome of this measure, urgently to consider compare the situation with that in north Warwickshire, extending it in the next Budget to micro-businesses and where there were 1,507 vacancies in October and 1,018 to introduce a proper definition of a micro-business. I people looking for work. I accept that the labour market think that they need particular help and support. works very differently in London from elsewhere, and I am all for people getting on their bike, the bus or the 5.56 pm train to get a job. Indeed, that is what most of my working constituents do every day. However, the fact Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): I want to that Lewisham has more people chasing local jobs than make only a brief speech and, like some other speakers, virtually anywhere else in the country says something plan to limit my remarks to part 2 of the Bill, which very important about people’s experience when they go deals with the national insurance holiday for businesses to the jobcentre in my constituency. For every job in that start up outside London, the east and the south-east. Lewisham there are 16 people claiming JSA. Every A national insurance holiday for some new businesses week, without fail, I have someone asking me to help but not others is misguided. I have two main reasons for them in their search for work. These are not workshy believing that. First, there is the basic issue of fairness. individuals, but people who desperately want to get a Under the Government’s proposals, a new business job to provide for their family. The jobs are not there at setting up in Leamington Spa, for example, could benefit the moment. from savings of up to £50,000 in its first year of operation, By not providing the same concessions to businesses but the very same business starting up in my constituency in Lewisham as to new businesses elsewhere in the of Lewisham East would get nothing. The businesses country, the Government are effectively limiting the might be exactly the same and they might employ prospects for my constituents who want to find work. exactly the same number of people and have exactly the Let us not forget that even in London it is necessary to same turnover and profit margins, but one stands to get stimulate employment in the sub-regional economy. a kick-start of thousands of pounds in its first year and Public sector jobs are often local to where people live, the other does not. I cannot help but think that that is so mums and dads who face being made redundant by blatantly unfair. local councils will be keen to find local work that will New businesses in Lewisham struggle to survive at fit around their caring responsibilities. Why are the the best of times: only 59% are still operating after their Government intent on making it harder for them to first three years as opposed to a UK average of 65%. If find work in new private sector enterprises by excluding we add into the mix the state of the economy in Lewisham, London start-ups from the national insurance concession? we see that the policy seems even more misguided. The Lewisham is part of London but its streets are not claimant count in my constituency has risen by 2% in paved with gold. This is where the Government have the last year, whereas in Leamington Spa it has fallen gone wrong. Not all London is like Notting Hill. Yes, by 25%. London has the City and is home to Canary Wharf, but The shadow Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member it also has some of the most desperate examples of for Delyn (Mr Hanson), has already spoken about what poverty in the UK. One in five Londoners earns less the policy is meant to do. The stated aim of the payment than a living wage and in inner London 20% of the holiday is to encourage the creation of private sector population has 60% of the total income. The worst-off jobs in regions that rely on public sector employment. of the richest 10% of Londoners have wealth 273 times Presumably, that is an attempt to do something to offset greater than that held by the best-off of the poorest the huge job losses that the Government are choosing 10%. The fact that London is home to the country’s to inflict on councils, police forces and primary care major financial centres should not mean that my trusts up and down the country. So, one might be constituents are disadvantaged or that if they want to forgiven for thinking that the policy would apply to set up a business they are treated as second-class those areas that have the highest proportions of their entrepreneurs. It should not mean that hundreds of work force employed in the public sector. One might people who are fearful of losing their job in the public think that the holiday would apply to the same areas as sector should have a lesser chance of getting a job in a those that are eligible to bid for the Government’s new new business start-up because of where they live. 213 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 214

[Heidi Alexander] Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) has mentioned. The total cost to the Treasury is estimated In London, we know that an axe has been taken to at about £940 million. the London Development Agency and that councils across the capital have lost local authority business Barry Gardiner: The hon. Gentleman will know that growth incentives scheme money, which many ploughed the October 2010 claimant level for JSA in his constituency back into supporting local businesses. We also know was 901, but the figure for my constituency was about that the VAT increase will hit many small businesses two and a half times that. Why does he think that his very hard. Now, to add injury to insult, the Government constituency and his benefit claimants should benefit want to support new businesses only in other parts of from the holiday period while mine should not? the country. That is not fair, it is misguided and I urge the Government to think again. Julian Sturdy: I think that the hon. Gentleman is talking about the regional aspect of the measures, which is important and has already been raised by some 6.3 pm Members. I shall address that issue and if he wants to Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): I am delighted to intervene on me again, I shall be more than happy to contribute to this important debate. It is essential to take his intervention. assist economic recovery by incentivising entrepreneurship As we appreciate the cost of the scheme to the public and private sector-led growth and I make no apologies purse, it is only right to drill down into the specific for supporting the coalition Government’s focus on details. There are many concerns about the holiday encouraging our small and medium-sized businesses, provision not applying to three English regions—Greater which this Bill does in abundance. The Bill’s benefits are London, the south-east region and the eastern region. I threefold. First, it will contribute to the Government’s accept that this limitation might seem unfair, particularly wider economic recovery programme through a small to those right hon. and hon. Members who represent increase in national insurance contributions. Secondly, such areas, but we live in extremely difficult economic it will promote and support small businesses and times and the woeful financial legacy will limit our entrepreneurship. Thirdly, it will fulfil the coalition’s ability to extend the holiday relief to every part of the pledge to raise the threshold of income tax personal country. That is regrettable, but it is a fair compromise. allowance. It is well-known that the gap between the northern and Like other hon. Members, I shall focus my contribution southern economies is widening and has been for the mainly on the second of those benefits—the so-called past 13 years, so it is essential that the coalition focus on national insurance holiday for small businesses. First, closing the gap by encouraging new private sector-led however, it might be useful to take stock of the history growth in the north. of NICs. This form of taxation was introduced in 1911 An unhealthy dependence on the public sector has before being expanded in 1940 to help fund the national blighted many northern towns and cities for too long. health service. The scheme has always consisted of Alongside the creation of local enterprise partnerships benefits financed by contributions from earners, employers and the regional growth fund, it is essential that private and others. NICs have always been flexible and responsive enterprise be given a boost in northern cities—such to the wider economic situation and thus linked to the as mine, York, I confess. Economic recovery will take ever-changing needs of society. Given the wider economic place only if the private sector leads the way. Only private outlook and the appalling financial legacy that we have sector expansion in the areas that are most dependent inherited, it is absolutely right that we now consider on the public sector will ensure that the recovery leads increasing these rates. However, as a low-tax Conservative, to sustainable, long-term stability in local economies. I hope that the actions we take to repair our broken Sustainability is key. economy today will be replaced with lower taxation I am sure the holiday aspect of the Bill will be policies across the board in future. welcomed by many small businesses throughout the Turning to the scheme’s main benefits, I am absolutely country. It has already won the backing of the Federation delighted that the Government have already taken measures of Small Businesses. I know that Opposition Members to make Britain a more business-friendly country once say that that is not the case, but I believe it is, although again. The Bill adds to the welcome return to promoting the federation raises concerns about the length of the and encouraging entrepreneurship rather than suffocating relief and the number of firms to which it will extend. businesses with endless regulation and red tape, as sadly Although my support for the Bill remains unequivocal, occurred too frequently in the previous decade. By I must confess that I share some of those concerns, raising NICs, we will encourage the creation of private while understanding the financial constraints placed on sector jobs in regions that are too reliant on public the Government. sector employment by reducing the cost of employing I fear that we might be slightly short-sighted in staff in new businesses. limiting access to expansion to new firms alone, and in NICs will be abolished for the first 10 jobs created in allowing new firms to claim it only during the first year new start-up enterprises during the first 12 months of of their business operations. I admire the way in which the business. As we have heard, the exemption will be the coalition has governed thus far with a long-term available for new businesses within a three-year qualification prospect. I ask the Front-Bench team to review through period. Such measures will save businesses vital cash, the same visionary lens the time scales and business thereby encouraging further growth and new employment exemptions from the contributions holiday over the opportunities, which are vital at this time. Early forecasts course of the next year or when the financial position suggest that about 400,000 employers will claim the allows. My hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot holiday, covering 800,000 employees. The average benefit raised that point, referring to micro-businesses, and I per business will be about £2,000, as my hon. Friend the agree wholeheartedly with her comments. 215 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 216

In conclusion, I strongly believe that the Bill sends Yet we have heard this evening that that is not the case. out exactly the right message from the Government to There are parts of London and the south-east which are budding entrepreneurships. This is positive Government-led far more reliant on public sector employment than action that our small and medium-sized businesses will parts of the country that will receive the benefit from welcome. More broadly, this action must be supplemented the holiday. That is incoherent and wrong. by Britain’s banks. Put bluntly, too few small and medium- My hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East sized businesses are receiving flexible finance. Members (Heidi Alexander) made the pertinent point that the Bill in all parts of the House should unite in urging the was unfair in another respect, and one can only marvel banks to free up vital cash flow. The new emphasis on at that unfairness coming from the Conservatives. The bank lending, alongside the measures contained in the unfairness is that the Bill is anti-competitive. My hon. Bill, will ensure that our private entrepreneurs receive Friend presented the straightforward example of two practical assistance in a true time of need. companies alike in all that they do, except that one will The Bill will play a vital role in our economic recovery get a £50,000 benefit in its first year of operation which and future growth, and I will strongly support it. is not available to the other—and that from the party which believes in free markets and in abolishing anti- competitive practices? How can those on the Treasury 6.11 pm Bench put that forward as a coherent philosophy? Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): The Exchequer Mel Stride: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the Secretary commended the first part of the Bill by saying purpose of the holiday, as we are calling it, is to try to that it was fair, that it was progressive and that it compensate for a reduction in the size of the public supported the poorest in society. In so commending sector in certain parts of the country, rather than targeting the first part of the Bill, he damned the second part, specifically, as he and other Opposition Members seem because he could not say of the second part of the Bill to be suggesting, areas of higher unemployment? that it was fair, that it was progressive and that it supported the poorest in society. That is the essence of Barry Gardiner: The hon. Gentleman suggests that the Opposition’s argument this evening. what the Government are seeking to do is compensate The second part of the Bill is incoherent in principle in some way for the decimation that they believe they and in practice and, worse than that, it is ineffective in will cause to employment in those areas. We share a practice. Let us look at the fundamentals. Who is it that belief that the Government’s cuts will have that decimating leads us out of recession? I am happy to make common effect on employment in those areas. Where we differ is cause with Members on the Government Benches and that the hon. Gentleman believes that the measures will say that it will be the private sector, in particular small in some way compensate for that, whereas I am pointing and medium-sized enterprises, that will lead us into the out that in other parts of the country, precisely in those growth that this country badly needs. Why is it, then, areas where they are not to apply, they would have a that the holiday provision is given precisely in those greater effect in boosting the economy. areas where private sector growth has been proven year The hon. Gentleman may say that the measures will after year not to take place? have a marginal effect in mitigating the increases in We know, and it has been a cause of problems to us, unemployment which he knows will come from his that it has been in London and the south-east that small Government’s policies. I do not believe, and I am confident businesses set up and grow. That has been the engine of that he does not believe, that they will totally compensate the private sector in our economy, yet instead of seeking for those. But the most important thing is to get our to use that to advantage, the second part of the Bill is economy moving again; after all, that is why we are incoherent in principle because it denies that region the making those public sector cuts in the first place. If we holiday and because it denies those potential businesses are focused on economic regeneration, we must seek to the benefits that will be made available in parts of the make that investment where we know it will achieve the country that have been proven not to be able to utilise maximum return. them, and therefore not to be able to bring us out of the Justine Greening: Can I get this clear? Is the hon. recession and be the engine of growth that we all want. Gentleman saying that Government should not try to The hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon) help regions that need infrastructure improvement and made the point that to extend the holiday to London are currently less productive? Should we simply not and the south-east would cost £660 million. Of course, invest in them? there will be a cost to the scheme, wherever it is put in place, but presumably that cost is seen as an investment Barry Gardiner: I try to keep debate in this Chamber to achieve the growth and dynamism in the economy at a rational and reasonable level. I try not to play silly that will return that investment multiplied to the Exchequer. party politics or create a straw man simply so that I can Yet £660 million is not being invested in the very parts knock it down. If the hon. Lady wishes to play those of our country where we know from experience that the games, let her intervene on somebody else. It is really private sector is most likely to give the maximum returns puerile to start talking in those terms; she knows that to the public purse. That is incoherent. that is absolutely not my purpose at all. Now let us look at whether the measure is incoherent The hon. Lady should consider her policies—not in practice. The Budget documentation quoted in the only these, but those that relate to VAT—and the effects explanatory notes to the Bill states: that the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development “The Government’s strategy to support private sector enterprise have said they will have. John Philpott, the chief economic in all parts of the UK aims…to encourage the creation of private adviser to the CIPD, said just a few days ago: sector jobs in regions reliant on public sector employment, through “we are looking at something like 900,000 job cuts in the private reducing the cost to new business of employing staff”. sector as a result of both spending cuts and the VAT hike.” 217 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 218

[Barry Gardiner] £9 billion as a consequence of the increases. In my opinion and that of many economists, the rise was That is the effect of the hon. Lady’s policies. Of course I totally unavoidable. want that effect to be mitigated as far as possible, and I wholly welcome one aspect of the Bill—well, not so for her to intervene on me in that ridiculous way, asking much the Bill but the secondary legislation that will be whether I am suggesting we should not try to mitigate enacted later—and that is the increase in the threshold the effect of her own policies—the loss of 900,000 jobs for employers’ national insurance to £21 per week above —is ludicrous. indexation. I welcome that because it will take some of In contrast to the hon. Lady, the hon. Member for the pressure off our employers. York Outer (Julian Sturdy) was extremely reasoned in National insurance, however, is not a good tax; as we responding to my intervention on him. He accepted know, it punishes those who employ people rather than that there was unfairness in the Bill and that that taxing the earnings from straightforward investment, unfairness was “regrettable”. My point is that although which does not employ people. I urge the Government’s it is regrettable, it is not inevitable. We do not have to Front Benchers to make sure that, when the recovery cut the cake or make the investments in this way. gathers pace and we start to get the deficit down, national In a rather partisan speech, the hon. Member for insurance for employers and employees should be right Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon) derided my right hon. Friend at the top of the list of taxes that we seek to reduce. the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson). He said that my I welcome the national insurance holiday, about which right hon. Friend was suggesting that the Government much has been said in this debate, and particularly were not going far enough. It is not a matter of not its targeting of new businesses. It should reach about going far enough with the holiday; it is a matter of the 400,000 new businesses and about 800,000 new employees. Government’s being fair, equitable and effective. The I say that as somebody who set up his own small Government cannot and should not take these decisions business, starting from scratch 20-odd years ago, and in an arbitrary fashion; they should take them on the built a company both here and in the United States. basis of equity and effectiveness. The Bill does not One of the most important and fragile moments of a enable that. company’s growth is that very starting point; that is when a company is most vulnerable. The help will be 6.24 pm hugely welcome. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): The hon. Member To my horror, I have found myself being slightly for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) referred to the regrettable persuaded by the right hon. Member for Delyn consequences of Government policy in terms of (Mr Hanson), as he started to open up the discussion unemployment. I believe that, in large part, the entire about whether the holiday should apply across the Bill is regrettable because it introduces rises in national entire country or whether, as I think he was suggesting, insurance for employers and employees, on businesses, it might be applied in a different way, to pick up areas in at a time when we look to them for growth, as the hon. the south-east, Greater London or the eastern region Gentleman rightly points out. But the reason for that is that might value the help more than other parts of the the policies pursued by the previous Government. Because country. I would like to think that Government Front of the hour, I do not intend to rehearse those this Benchers might think about that aspect a little further, evening, save to point out that we have ended up in a although I suspect that when we start to try to cherry-pick situation where the interest alone on the money that we small parts of the country, we will end up with a highly owe is £43 billion a year—more than we spend on complex and potentially very expensive scheme. However, education and defence. That is a national disgrace. I would like to think that we might consider the matter in Committee. I welcomed my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s Budget of 22 June, particularly the balance that he I also welcome the fact that this is retrospective struck between seeking reductions in expenditure and legislation that applies to companies set up since the accepting that we have to raise certain taxes. He weighted emergency Budget in June, and that it is not prescriptive it far more towards the former than the latter, which in the sense of requiring a certain type of employment has to be the right policy. The hon. Member for Brent in order for companies to qualify. There was a scheme North is right: the Office for Budget Responsibility in the 1990s to get the long-term unemployed back into itself has said that 500,000 jobs will be shed as a work that was not nearly as successful as it might have consequence of the fiscal consolidation in the public been had it not been prescriptive in that way. sector, and PricewaterhouseCoopers has suggested that I am pleased that the Government, in recognising perhaps another half a million private sector jobs will the importance of business, also set out in the Budget go as a consequence of that. We need to create jobs in reductions in corporation tax in steps from 28% down the private sector. to 24% over the period of the comprehensive spending According to the Treasury, in the past six months review, with the small business rate falling to 20%. That 300,000 jobs have been created in the private sector, so will give us one of the lowest levels of corporation tax in the capacity is there. It was as inevitable as it was the G20, and the fifth lowest in the G7. regrettable that national insurance would go up. Labour I have some concerns about the national insurance first started talking about increases in national insurance holiday. We must ensure that we avoid so-called recycling as far back as the latter part of 2008. Of the three major whereby, for example, companies set themselves up as taxation streams going into the Treasury, national insurance apparently a new business although they have been is the second most significant. In fact, in 2009-10 £150 billion operating before, or come into the market as a new was raised from income tax, £96 billion from national business and then close down and rebrand themselves. I insurance and £70 billion from VAT. National insurance note that clause 5 deals with that issue. My plea is that is efficient to collect, and in 2011-12 we will raise we do not make the whole operation unduly onerous 219 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 220 and complicated for businesses that wish to take advantage if one does not have that, one does not have a business. I of the scheme. My hon. Friend the Member for Chichester live in the real world in the area that I represent, with (Mr Tyrie) spoke in particular about the importance of unemployment and bills, and with families struggling keeping complexity down. The tax code in this country and businesses barely surviving. I fully grasp the very now runs to 11,000 pages. We have enough complexity—we tenuous financial position that we find ourselves in as do not need more. we try to claw our way out of the deficit. I accept that The Bill also deals with EU regional funding constraints. Government, the coalition, and all of us together Under articles 107 and 108 of the treaty on the functioning have to be involved in that and make a contribution of the EU, companies are not permitted to receive more towards it. than ¤200,000 in state aid over a three-year period, I welcome the range of packages that the coalition given the regionality of the way the scheme works. has brought forward through the Bill, which will directly Clause 8 seeks to handle that. Again, it is imperative help the lower-paid. That is positive, and I am glad to that whatever information HMRC requires from those see it. The national insurance contribution holiday is companies is kept to the minimum so that the system is also a positive move. However, I feel that I have to not bogged down in red tape. comment on behalf of people who may not always see the benefit of these measures—those to whom I have Chris Leslie: Has the hon. Gentleman had an opportunity spoken over the past week in anticipation of this debate, to look at the regulatory impact assessment describing who have concerns and have asked me to convey them the steps necessary to implement the NI holiday, which in the House tonight. I understand that this further tax is estimated on the Treasury’s own figures to cost hike is a blow to some of the people I represent—the £22 million? A lot of companies will have to use manual middle classes and the self-employed. They see it as processes instead of the software that they had used to such, and I have to say so. The rise in national insurance pay their national insurance, and it will require 240 extra for employers and employees will dissuade some employers staff at HMRC to administer the scheme. from offering additional hours. A perhaps forgotten and ignored issue is the impact Mel Stride: The hon. Gentleman adds to my point. on the morale of people in such businesses who do not Indeed, I believe that the cost to HMRC will be £12 million, see the benefit in the proposals before us. There is no and the cost imposed on business is estimated at £75 million. better way of illustrating a case than taking an example I accept that that is a large amount of money in the from my own constituency. Just in the past few days, I context of a scheme that is effectively injecting £940 million. had the opportunity to speak to a young married couple It is therefore most important that we keep complexity who have two children. They are both working. They and red tape to an absolute minimum. are not entitled to housing benefit, so some years ago It is important to ensure that this incentive is well they bought their own house, and they have a fairly advertised, given that it is permissive in allowing companies large mortgage. For them, the cost of living has increased to apply for it but is not necessarily automatically dramatically. The husband is self-employed, and he granted. The HMRC material refers to advertising it on cannot raise his prices in line with the prices coming in, Business Link websites, and so on. If we are to get up to because then he would not have any business. Indirect 400,000 businesses involved—1,000 are involved at the taxation has risen, and risen again. His business has moment—we will have to advertise this nationally with suffered because people simply do not have the money a push to ensure that it is taken up. In particular, we to decorate their homes, which is what he does. The wife need to ensure that we lower the proportion of so-called received a rise, with the additional pressure and workload dead-weight businesses that are taking it up—in other that came with it, yet they find that being on the words, those that would have employed additional people borderline of the new tax threshold means that they are even in the absence of the scheme. It is really important scarcely better off. They are just on the wrong side of that we give this a wholehearted push. that tax threshold. The frustration they expressed to me I welcome the national insurance holiday provisions demonstrated the sobering reality of how some people in the Bill. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for see the future of their business. York Outer (Julian Sturdy) that it is important to consider Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): other aspects such as encouraging lending and getting People such as my hon. Friend’s constituents are looking the Bank of England issuing credit condition surveys in forward to the increase in personal allowances to which which it talks about the banks lending again. We also the Government are now committed, which is a good need to cut back on red tape. This is a big opportunity thing. However, given the increase in national insurance to get back to a culture that is positive about new contributions, the anomaly is that such people will find business. I should like us to have the kind of culture that it even more difficult to move out of recession. we had in the 1980s, when we were open for business and companies were being set up. That is when I went Jim Shannon: I thank my hon. Friend for his comments, out there and set up my business and created wealth and which are very positive. I think that if everyone sat employment for people. That is the aspect of the Bill down for a moment and looked at their own constituency, that I wholeheartedly welcome. we could all replicate this situation everywhere across the whole of the United Kingdom. 6.34 pm The couple who came to see me did not have any help Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I have always been when their boiler broke, their car broke down, or the a very practical person. I ran my own successful business heating bills came in: they had to manage all that for some 25 years before handing the work over to my themselves. That puts things into perspective. They did son. I am the first to acknowledge that in order to spend not ask for a handout, or believe that they were entitled money one must have money coming in as well, because to one. They simply asked me whether I could do 221 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 222

[Jim Shannon] the sake of opposition. Of course, I entirely subscribe to that emotion. However, although I rejoice in seeing a something, as the Member for Strangford, to represent sinner repentant, and the Conservative party being their viewpoint in this Chamber, and that is what I converted once more to the policy of Keynesian fiscal intend to do. This is an example of the low morale of incentives, I feel that the Bill is in many ways a disincentive the hard-working family who feel that they are swimming and, even more seriously, a crude, clumsy and extremely against the current. I would always caution that we complicated one. should ensure at all times that people feel that it is better Much has been made of geography and the fact that to work, and these people have that work ethic, which is large parts of the country are excluded from the glorious good news. sunshine of this Bill’s benefits, which will cause flowers I know that Government Members will say that this to bloom and businesses to leap, as from the brow of is “only” a 1% percent increase in national insurance Jove, into the marketplace fully formed. The excluded contributions, and that is true. Let us remember, though, areas are not just the leafy shires where the only concern that it is to be coupled with an increase in university is getting one’s second au pair, or third Range Rover. fees. It must also be coupled with an increase in tax on They are also places such as Milton Keynes, Medway— oil, which results in higher petrol and diesel costs across Medway!—Portsmouth, Reading, Slough, Southampton, the whole United Kingdom, particularly in Northern Luton, Peterborough and Thurrock. It is true that the Ireland. We have the highest price for diesel and petrol Bill also excludes parts of the south-west London-Surrey in the whole UK, and the VAT increase in January will border where people are so wealthy that they can add to the price hikes and the pressure on families. afford the luxury of electing Liberal Democrats, but in As a balanced individual who can see the good element excluding such a large area the Government are assuming in the Bill, I point out that the fact that new businesses that within the eastern region, the home counties and will get help with their first 10 employees’ contributions London there exists a seething tide of entrepreneurial is good news. However, I have to ask: what about the energy, ready to burst forth at any minute, that needs no small and medium-sized businesses that are currently assistance. struggling, such as the one run by the couple I mentioned? The hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) To them, a £2,000 bonus would be the incentive to keep said that there was a message coming from the House pouring their energy into their business. Many other tonight. Well, the message is, “London, the home counties, businesses in my area would love to have that opportunity East Anglia: get lost. You can manage on your own, as well. I ask the Economic Secretary whether there is you don’t need any help.” That is desperately crude. In any scope for businesses that have opened in the past times of tight margins, small incentives make a huge few years to avail themselves of help that could save difference. The geography of this country is so tight and businesses and jobs, and subsequently ensure that their small that whereas Hampshire is excluded from the revenue continues to go into the contributions pot. benefits of the Bill, Dorset and Wiltshire are not. One The hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie does not have to read one’s Blackmore to know that the Morris) hit upon an issue that other Members have also boundaries and borders in those areas are very close mentioned, and I agree with her comments. I believe and tight. Is the coalition Government’s aim to empty that small and medium-sized businesses need help. I do out as much of London, the home counties and East not believe that that can be done through the Bill, but I Anglia as possible and send everybody flooding to would like them to receive some contribution and help Somerset, Wiltshire and Dorset? as a next stage. Perhaps the Economic Secretary will indicate whether and how that can be done, and on Jacob Rees-Mogg: Hear, hear! what time scale. It is imperative that we in this House have a full grasp of what is intended in the next period, Stephen Pound: We have had some very successful so that we can go back to our constituents and let them imports from there in the House, particularly from know. North East Somerset. None the less, I am not entirely It is not in my nature to oppose anything simply for convinced that it should be the policy of Her Majesty’s the sake of it. That is not how I work. However, I Government of the United Kingdom to act in that honestly believe that many people are on the brink, and crude way. I have to say so. Consideration must be given to small and medium-sized businesses and those with a small Talking of crudeness, advancing the idea that we can number of workers. I know that money has to be raised somehow assume that people will not move into a and that someone has to provide it. That is the purpose low-tax zone, like one of those Chinese economic zones, of the debate. What I do not know is why it has to be the is simply not being serious about the realities of modern same people who provide it all the time. That is what business. There are no Liberal Democrats in the House has happened. The self-employed, the middle class, and tonight—a happenstance that will doubtless be replicated small and medium-sized enterprises that exist today on a longer-term basis after 2015. One thing that they must all be part of the equation. On behalf of the tried, in one of their strange, clouded pipe dreams people of Northern Ireland, and of my constituency in during the election campaign, was the suggestion that particular, I ask the Economic Secretary to consider we could have geographically specific immigration— those matters fully. presumably with border posts on the M1, so that certain parts of the country could benefit from immigration while other parts could not. A quick glance at the map 6.42 pm of this country shows that that simply is not possible. Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): A common We will immediately have the difficulty of disincentivisation theme running through the debate—almost the golden occurring in the south-east, while the benefits are transferred thread of it—has been that of not seeking to oppose for to the rest of the country. 223 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 224

The Bill is also ferociously complicated. Everybody are some entrepreneurs in London who may say, “Without thinks they know what a new business is, but nobody that additional advantage, why not relocate not only can define it. We heard in an intervention by the hon. outside London but outside the UK?” Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) that The hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) apprentices are not covered. said that he was as comfortable operating a company in I turn, as ever I do, to the explanatory notes, which this country as he was in the United States. People will have been written in the most extraordinary way. We look at this measure in the context of a global economy. read about Roy the carpenter; Sam the noble publican What we have here is crude, complicated and unfocused. wishing to hand his business on to Tom; and Rosie and I am not entirely sure that it will be the agency that will Jim the plumbers—none of whom is included in the kill unemployment and bring us all into some glorious Bill’s provisions. We read of an extraordinary ménage in new future. I appreciate that hundreds of new civil what I had previously thought was the rather dull world servants will be employed to make this system work, of accountancy, in which Alan, Ben, Charles and David and I welcome that; we need more work. How tragic is it decide to link up with Ellen and Frances. In doing so, that this Bill—the Bill to encourage the private sector they also bring in a mutual friend, George. That is outside the home counties—will end up employing more experience beyond that of most Members. civil servants in London and, almost certainly, not My particular favourite example is almost a Mills providing that great entrepreneurial spark in the rest of and Boon novel: John and Paul the dentists, who have the nation? been partners for many years but fall out. One imagines 6.52 pm John and Paul, their eyes meeting over the face masks as they attend to a cavity together, their latex-covered Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): As a new digits brushing against each other. Then, one day, they Member of this House, I am learning an awful lot of fall out and set up alternative dental practices. John and lessons, including the one that says never attempt to Paul, once so close, are close no more. The explanatory follow my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing North notes should be published by Mills and Boon, not by (Stephen Pound) at the end of a long debate, so I will the House of Commons. keep my remarks characteristically short. After all those examples, what do we find? We find Like many Members, I was surprised to find myself that the complicated reality of new businesses is such as one of the MPs for the greater south-east—a new that the coda to that great, glorious, rather romantic region of which we are all delighted to be a part, tale is, to quote paragraph 46: particularly those of us in the east of England. Joking “The intended effect of this provision is that a person will be aside, this Bill will have a serious impact on my constituents prevented from enjoying a holiday if, before beginning to carry on in Luton South. Luton is my home town; it is a jewel in a business, the person enters into arrangements that mean that at the east of England and businesses like it. some point after the person’s business has started he may undertake A 2010 survey showed that access to a strategic road activities carried on by another business and, had the person been network, rail networks and Luton airport and its proximity undertaking those activities at the time the business was started, a to London are all great for business. None the less, we holiday would not have been allowed.” have problems, too. Even as a jewel in the east, we suffer That is reductio ad absurdum. How can we possibly from unemployment. Jobseekers’ allowance claimants even begin to take seriously a Bill that, leaving aside the form 7.5% of the population—it has risen over the past romantic dentists and Rosie and Jim the entrepreneurial couple of years—compared with an average of 4% in plumbers, creates such an incredibly complicated the wider east. Median earnings are £350 a week in mechanism? That is not what we should be doing. Luton compared with £410 a week in the rest of the east. The Economic Secretary, as ever, cuts to the heart of The east is a vastly disparate area. I am reminded of the matter. I have great admiration for her. She is no that when it takes me two and a half hours to drive to stranger to the streets of Acton, where first we met. She Norwich and two hours to Cardiff. It is a vast area as had a reputation then for striking through all the persiflage well, but it gets the same blanket national insurance that normally infests this place like wisteria—if that is conditions under this Bill, which is surely unfair. not a painful subject for the Conservatives. She asked Being at the margins of the east is also a problem. earlier, “Would it be better for this holiday to be extended Those same road and rail networks that make Luton an across the whole country, or is it better for it to go to attractive place for business can help its creative work two thirds of the country?” I have to say that it should force to leave—and to receive a £50,000 golden hello for be all or nothing. The minute we try to set up those setting up a business elsewhere. If the purpose is to complicated differentials, there are immense problems. encourage jobs in the non-excluded areas rather than in Why could the measure not be applied sectorally? Why the greater south-east, then areas at the margins will be could we not choose a particular sector and incentivise disproportionately affected. For places such as Luton it it? I am talking about those that employ large numbers is a double whammy because there will be public-sector and have a proven track record of entrepreneurial success. job losses over the coming years and a less competitive Why could we not continue with the enlightened work environment in which to establish a new business. Indeed, of the previous Labour Administration and provide it is a triple whammy because Luton’s great road and start-up support for capital equipment and allow deferred rail networks will encourage people to move 15 or VAT payments? 20 minutes away to establish their business, and the area There are so many things that we could have done. will lose valuable new jobs at a time of rising public What we have before us is probably—I say probably— sector unemployment. That is why I sponsored early-day rooted in decency and good, honest Keynesian politics. motion 537, which said: However, it has become so complicated that I fear that “That this House notes that the Government’s decision to there will be very few businesses leaping to life in introduce a Class 1 Employer National Insurance exemption for Liverpool, Manchester, Rotherham or wherever. There new businesses in regions other than the East, South East and 225 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 226

[Gavin Shuker] will not oppose the business as it goes forward. We accept that responsible national insurance increases will London will have a negative effect on growth in those areas be required to address the deficit. None the less, I hope collectively termed the Greater South East; further notes that in that the Government will have the courage to look at areas which border, or have good rail and road links with non-Greater the distribution of this holiday so that the hard pressed South Eastern town and cities, the strategy positively encourages and creative people of Luton are not the victims of a entrepreneurs to start new businesses away from their own communities, breaking community ties and vastly increasing Tory triple whammy. unemployment; and further notes that the same strategy fails to recognise the vast disparity within the Greater South East region, 6.59 pm where some towns and cities experience levels of unemployment and deprivation that are equal to or worse than the parts of the Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I country that will benefit from this scheme.” congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Luton The disparity within regions is the key point. Luton’s South (Gavin Shuker) on his comments. In a nutshell, businesses will be hit hard as will others across the he has summed up many of the problems and south-east. Potential new businesses will be affected. inconsistencies in the Bill. It seems that it has something Some 82% of Luton’s businesses employ fewer than of a split personality, which has been caused by the 10 members of staff, which are exactly the sort of Government trying to face in two different directions operations that this policy is meant to help in other simultaneously. At the election, many people thought parts of the country. Again, more than four-fifths of that the Conservatives were promising to reverse entirely local businesses do not have sites elsewhere in Luton. the national insurance rise. We consistently heard from These are Luton-based businesses run by Luton people, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor on that issue. and they will be hit before they even have the chance to Unfortunately, the public did not see the small print get started. that existed at the time. The Government argue that anything other than the The Government are merely chipping away at those binary distinction between south-east and the “other” national insurance changes, and only for employers. would be too difficult a distinction for the boffins at the That may not actually be a broken promise, but they Treasury to work out. In response to the hon. Member have rowed back from the impression that they gave to for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage), the Exchequer Secretary the public. They let everyone think that they were said that the measure against the change to national insurance, but they never “is targeted on countries and regions within the UK where actually intended to reverse it. It is fascinating to see reliance on public sector employment is at its highest. For practical them attempt to cover up that particular shortcoming reasons the Government have no plans to introduce national with the partial increase in the employer national insurance insurance contribution exemptions for smaller geographical units.”— threshold coupled with what most hon. Members, including —[Official Report, 10 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 359W.] most Government Members, have described as a complex I hope that in Committee, the Government will be and insubstantial national insurance tweak that applies open to considering different models or different, more to some entrepreneurs in some parts of the country, graduated distributions of the national insurance holiday welcome though it will be to many of them. Political schemes. Changing the ratio is the stated ambition of acrobatics have resulted in a contorted Bill, as my hon. the Bill. The data for it exist for local authority areas, Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) which are explicitly listed by name in the Bill. Will the argued when highlighting the incoherence of the Bill. Government choose to look at that as an option for It is true that the previous Labour Administration applying the changes? My constituents in the Luton were prepared to take tough decisions on tax and national local authority would be extremely grateful if they insurance, because the banking bail-out required us to did so. raise funds to compensate. The hallmark of political In summary, the Government have chosen to favour parties is the choices that they make on taxation and some people, some businesses and some communities expenditure. This Government have chosen to cut severely over others. Although I understand that there are pros investment in public services and to raise VAT to 20%. and cons to such an approach, to apply that choice as a A Labour Government would have chosen a steadier blanket holiday over vast swathes of the country, meaning and more sustainable approach to deficit reduction, but a £50,000 golden hello for some businesses just 15 or 20 national insurance changes would be part of that. minutes away from the borders of my constituency, will We chose the national insurance route rather than the have a negative effect on Luton South. Such an approach VAT route for very good reasons. Slightly contrary to does not fulfil the other part of the Government’s stated the point made by the hon. Member for Newton Abbot bargain, which is that if a business loses out by having (Anne Marie Morris), the national insurance changes higher national insurance rates on new start-ups, that were not going to be made in June; they were always will be offset by living in an area that is already doing going to come in from next April, by which time we had better when it comes to higher public sector employment. hoped that the recovery would be well under way. As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Unfortunately, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), his constituency is in have chosen to go for the VAT increase. That will hit the top 10 seats for public sector employment rates, so slightly earlier, albeit by only a few months, but the his constituents will be affected. economy will feel it like a punch in the stomach. Their In short, if the Government scheme is to favour some VAT jobs tax could have a greater impact on employment, areas over others, and it does not work, it will be a waste which it will hit significantly, than the national insurance of money and parliamentary time. If it does work, it changes. The CIPD, to which many hon. Members will hit my constituents hard and unfairly—judged by referred, predicts that around 250,000 private sector the Government’s own criteria. A reasoned amendment jobs will be affected, and possibly lost, by the VAT will not be moved tonight, and Opposition Members increase, which is just around the corner. 227 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 228

Barry Gardiner: Will my hon. Friend none the less My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Mike acknowledge that the hon. Member for Newton Abbot Gapes), who highlighted the discriminatory nature of (Anne Marie Morris) made a pertinent suggestion? She the national insurance holiday proposal—it affects some identified the phase of business development that could parts of the country but not others—and my hon. give maximum benefit to the Treasury—when very small Friends the Members for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) businesses are growing into small to medium-sized and for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) pointed out the businesses, rather than when businesses are growing unfairness of a crude system that will exclude the east of from zero to micro. England, London and the greater south-east, as my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South called it. Chris Leslie: Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick That will cause significant disquiet, and many new from the hon. Member for Newton Abbot when she entrepreneurs in those parts of the country will complain. made that pertinent point about micro-businesses. The Legitimately, they will not understand why they are Bill perhaps does not capture the benefit to the economy excluded while reasonably affluent areas of the country that small businesses have in that phase of their outside the greater south-east—Chester, Worcester, development. I hope that she will be a member of the Harrogate, York Outer, Tatton and Richmond, to name Public Bill Committee that considers the Bill, although areas at random—will be eligible for the benefits. My interestingly, as has been pointed out, perhaps some of hon. Friend put things perfectly when he said that the the questioning from Government Members might prevent boffins at the Treasury ought to be capable of understanding them—mysteriously—from being selected for membership the distinction between the greater south-east and other of that Committee. We shall see. parts of the country. Of course they are capable of that, The Prime Minister said before the general election and we will seek to make amendments to deal with that that VAT is problem in Committee. “very regressive, it hits the poorest the hardest, it does, I absolutely Unfortunately, this small and partial measure—a national promise you”. insurance holiday for some businesses in some parts of The Government have chosen a path that will hit the country—reveals first of all the Government’s complete employment, jobs and businesses very hard indeed. failure to develop a regional growth strategy, especially That should be borne in mind when we consider the for the English regions. They have taken the knife not Bill. It is odd that this Bill is separate from either of the only to regional development agencies, but more Finance Bills. I have not quite figured out the Government’s importantly to the budgets at their disposal to help to tactics, and perhaps they had not quite worked out what build SMEs and provide the infrastructure necessary they were going to do. In that wider context, it is for businesses to survive. We know that for every £1 spent necessary to compare their choices in VAT against the through the auspices of RDAs, £4.50 of benefits accrued national insurance changes. to the regional economies. The Government disregarded Hon. Members mostly spoke about part 2 of the Bill, evidence from the National Audit Office. They have which includes the concept of a national insurance damaged the prospects for growth in our economy, but holiday.Such a holiday is, of course, superficially attractive, particularly in those parts of it that have not benefited but there are reasons to be concerned about the poor from the historic engine of growth that has surrounded design of the measure, which applies only to new businesses London and the south-east. The Government’s alternative and not to existing firms. That is important. Many —these local enterprise partnerships, which are unfunded, businesses could be under the misapprehension that and only partially covering the country—is a poor they will qualify, and a lot of effort and time will go into substitute for a proper regional economic strategy. Nearly contacting Business Link and the Treasury to find out 21 million people and 780,000 businesses will not be whether the measure applies to them, and many will be covered by the LEPs, the Business Secretary has described disappointed. them as “chaotic”, and Richard Lambert of the CBI The proposal is complex because of the limited time has called the process a “bit of a shambles”. and extent of the scheme. It applies only to a small That sums up the Government’s lack of a growth number of employees and there is a convoluted application strategy. We know that they have pulled the rug from process. Government Members pointed out that efforts under the growth White Paper that was meant to be need to made to ensure that the measure is as simple forthcoming. They did that because they have no clear as possible. The Bill will require HMRC to take on idea of how to drive growth: they are fixated on austerity 240 extra staff—I am not sure that they will be additional alone and have no solutions for the long-term course of staff, especially given that HMRC is cutting numbers—and our economy. That is a great pity. The regional growth we will press the Minister on that extra complement in fund has been hacked down to a pathetic size, with few Committee. Businesses could apply for the national opportunities for small and medium-sized enterprises insurance holiday but not get it because they have to to apply for support under it. In many ways, therefore, swim for hours through treacle to get someone in the small firms have been cast to one side, with perhaps a Treasury to pick up the phone. That could be a significant few crumbs from the table made available for them as a problem. result of this Marie-Antoinette strategy of the Ministers— The Minister gave a vague figure when asked how “Let them eat cake” seems to be the approach they are many people had applied since the scheme started in willing to take. September. Very few people are aware that the scheme The hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) exists, and it has hardly been advertised—[Interruption.] rightly pointed out that the Government should be I am glad that Liberal Democrat Members have joined trying to make the banks lend more and give more us in the Chamber, even if they are just passing through, support to SMEs, making inroads into that desert of because they have been conspicuous by their absence. loan and credit available to them. We know from the Perhaps that is related to their embarrassment over the Chancellor’s statement at Treasury questions last week VAT comparator. and from Ministers’ comments that they have gone soft 229 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 230

[Chris Leslie] 7.15 pm on the banks in a number of ways, particularly on the The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine coalition commitment to restart net lending targets for Greening): We have had an interesting debate and I am the banks in which they have a shareholding. They have grateful for hon. Members’ contributions, especially decided now to row back from their commitment to that of the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen institute those net lending targets, and I urge hon. Pound), who provided the most entertaining canter Members, particularly Government Members, to ask through an explanatory memorandum I have listened to serious questions of Ministers about why they are not in years. prepared to ensure that the banks play their full part in At the beginning of the debate, my hon. Friend the repairing the economy. Exchequer Secretary explained that the Bill contains I would not like to think that we cannot trust the two important measures: an increase in national insurance Chancellor to fulfil some of the pledges to lessen the contributions and a regional employer national insurance impact of these national insurance increases. As we contributions holiday for new businesses. Both are part know, the Government have already reneged on the of the Government’s plan to reduce the burden of commitment on employee national insurance changes, labour taxation, reducing obstacles for those who want even though the press reported before the election that to recruit and retain staff. It is worth stressing that the the Conservative party would do so. It is true that in clauses are part of a much wider package of reforms to many ways the personal allowance changes deal with help businesses and ensure that Britain is open again for some of these elements, but only in part—there was a business. The reforms are designed to reverse the most commitment on national insurance as well, but they damaging aspects of Labour’s ill-conceived jobs tax. I folded and absorbed it into that change. Again, they listened with care to the contributions from Labour raised people’s hopes before the general election, but Members, but members of the public listening will have have not fulfilled them. found it easy to forget that the Labour party left office In particular, the Government are not fully offsetting with unemployment higher than when it entered. these changes for employers, which will be a surprise to Nevertheless, I am pleased that the debate has led to many people. Before the election, the Conservative party so many Opposition Members—and, indeed, Government gave the impression that it was fully against the 1% Members—recognising that the best way to kick-start increase and that it would repeal it entirely. [Interruption.] new business, as the hon. Member for Lewisham East Ministers seem to think that they were going to repeal it (Heidi Alexander) put it, is to ensure that businesses are entirely. As I see the measures, the impression they not over-taxed. In fact, the hon. Member for Ilford gave—[Interruption.] There was small print, it is true, South (Mike Gapes) was extolling the virtues of low tax but that was not the impression given. The £4.5 billion on businesses. That is why the Bill is so important. Were change is offset by the £3.1 billion increase in the the coalition Government not in power, rather than threshold for employers on national insurance, so there corporation tax on businesses going down, it would is a deficit of £1.4 billion in the compensation that the have gone up, and rather than the national insurance Government will not be giving to employers. This is a burden, particularly on small businesses, being held question not necessarily of a broken promise, but of an down, it would have risen remorselessly. impression that many people had that the Government The hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) were going to end the jobs tax, as the Prime Minister talked about a split personality, but it is probably fairer and Chancellor characterised it. As ever with this to level that charge at the right hon. Member for Delyn Government, however, when we look at the small print, (Mr Hanson), who, on the one hand, wanted to raise we see that those changes will not be forthcoming. national insurance for all employers, but, on the other We have not seen the secondary legislation yet. I hand, complained that the tax break we wanted to would like to know when the Minister will introduce introduce to reduce national insurance was not fair it. Presumably on Monday—traditionally the time of because it did not apply to all regions. He cannot have it what was the pre-Budget report—we will hear from the both ways. Chancellor about the threshold changes and the indexation elements of these changes. Ministers have said they are Mike Gapes: I am glad that the hon. Lady was listening going to add £21 to the employer threshold, but what so carefully to what I said. She refers to unemployment, will be the indexation? Will they follow the long-standing but will she confirm that 3 million more people were in traditions of the Rooker-Wise amendment when it comes work when the last Government left office than when to allowance and threshold changes and follow the they entered? retail price index option, or will they row back again and go for the cheaper consumer price index option? In other words, will they be giving with one hand, through Justine Greening: A lot of people would debate who the threshold change, but taking with the other, by only those jobs were taken by. In reality, unemployment was opting for CPI? higher—every Labour Government leaves office with This debate has revealed significant concerns on the unemployment higher than when it entered. Government Benches about the crude discrimination I want to talk about some of the most important shown against London, the south-east and the east of aspects of the Bill. Employers will be £150 better off England. The Bill reveals a lack of a proper strategy for each year for each employee earning above the threshold. growth, especially in the English regions, and the There will be an increase of 650,000 in the number of Government have revealed their preference for regressive employees in respect of whom employers pay no national taxation, particularly VAT, which will harm businesses insurance contributions. Compared to this year, employers and raise unemployment. We will certainly need to see will pay less national insurance contribution in respect serious improvements in these measures in Committee. of those employees earning under £20,000. In fact, 231 National Insurance Contributions Bill23 NOVEMBER 2010 National Insurance Contributions Bill 232 low-earning employees will also be better off, because have increased it. There is a blank piece of paper, and at the point at which they start to pay national insurance the top are the words, “Labour economic strategy”. It is contributions is also going up—by about £23 per week. time for the Labour party to start to become credible by By reversing the planned employer national insurance trying at least to pull together and to plan for our increases, this package will help to maintain the UK’s economy. Most people will put the contributions about attraction as a place to do business. In doing so, it will jobs and the complaints about reductions in national support the Government’s aim of creating a fairer and insurance not going far enough in the context of a party more competitive tax system. The national insurance that has absolutely no alternative plan for managing holiday will help with the transition to a more sustainable our economy. They will realise that their arguments are model of economic growth, encourage private sector not credible. enterprise and investment where it is most needed, The regional aspect of national insurance policy must create jobs in some of our poorest regions, and encourage be seen in the context of the broader package to support people to become business people, entrepreneurs and business. The level of VAT registrations in different wealth creators—the very people who will lead the parts of our country and the number of jobs created in recovery. different parts of our country show that we need to Those points were made eloquently by my hon. Friend ensure that we can stimulate growth, particularly in the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon) and later by communities that can benefit most from it. The policy the hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), who should be looked at not in isolation, but in the context also talked about the burden of red tape, which is of the broader tax reductions on business and the rise in another matter that the Government are keen to reduce the personal allowance for employees. Nearly 900,000 of for businesses. My hon. Friend the Member for Central the lowest-income workers in our country will be taken Devon (Mel Stride) talked about the need to support out of income tax altogether. The vast majority of business, and to create new jobs and the positive culture people will benefit from our proposals, and under the that we need to engender throughout the country. That Bill many of them will be small businesses with a is absolutely what the Government want to do. handful of employees. The Bill should be seen in the context of wider measures. The Government have taken several steps to Barry Gardiner: I do not think I heard a single speech support business. In the emergency budget we announced from either side of the Chamber that suggested in any measures to reduce corporation tax, not raise it on large way that those benefits should not flow to certain companies year on year. We announced measures to businesses. The question that was repeatedly asked and reduce the small companies rate of corporation tax. which the Economic Secretary and her colleagues failed The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) talked to answer is why those businesses are favoured, not only about what we can do to help small companies and new when they are specifically not the ones in the areas that companies. He was right, and that is precisely why, will produce the economic growth that hon. Lady indicates instead of increasing corporation tax on those companies, is required from the policy, but because of the manifest we preferred to try to ensure that they can enjoy a rate unfairness that will result from their distribution. decrease. We have gone further. The regional growth fund will Justine Greening: I realise that the hon. Gentleman benefit all communities in our country. The capital takes a different view about how to target the policy. I infrastructure plan was announced as part of the spending happen to believe that he is wrong. We recognise that review, and more capital will go into supporting our there needs to be some targeting, but the way in which country’s infrastructure than would have happened under he would have done that would have been unwieldy and the previous Government. We have published the local unaffordable. In the context of our broader measures to growth White Paper. reduce corporation tax instead of allowing rises, which would have happened under the Labour party, and the Chris Leslie: In the hon. Lady’s list of Budget changes, measures to take the lowest-income employees in our what will be the impact of the VAT increase on employment? country—nearly 900,000—out of income tax altogether, we are trying to strike a balance, and I believe that we Justine Greening: Clearly, that must be seen in the have struck the right balance. context of our desperate need to tackle the fiscal deficit I have no doubt that we will continue the debate in that the Labour party left us. It is one reason why our Committee, but we must be pragmatic. I draw attention overall plan is not just to support business—that is to the hon. Gentleman’s attempts to target policies clearly how we will grow our economy back to the when the Opposition were in government. They faced healthy state that it needs to get to—but, as the hon. difficulties with their changes during their final years Gentleman pointed out, to make our numbers add up in office. Under the deprived area fund, and the across the board. We must get rid of the structural neighbourhood renewal fund, which became the working deficit that his party handed over to us. neighbourhood fund, some communities that had We believe that the package of measures is right, the previously received funding were cut off. We want an OECD has said that it is moving in the right direction, overall package that supports business across the board, and it has been welcomed throughout Europe. If the while retaining an element of support targeted at the hon. Gentleman is saying that we should not increase regions that we think need to benefit most from the next VAT, that prompts a question. His right hon. Friend the economic upturn. That is what the Bill is doing. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) was The package of reforms of which the measures in the interviewed recently and said that the Labour party Bill are part will benefit individuals and employers would have increased VAT, so we cannot accept the throughout the country, and help us to achieve the twin hon. Gentleman’s comments that his party would not objectives of creating a fair and competitive UK tax 233 National Insurance Contributions Bill 23 NOVEMBER 2010 234

[Justine Greening] Consideration and Third Reading 4. Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously system. The burden of labour taxation will be reduced concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the by more than £6 billion a year in a way that will help the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings lowest earners in Britain and protect lower-paid jobs. are commenced. The national insurance holiday provides targeted support 5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption to new enterprises, and encourages people to set up on that day. their own businesses and to employ new staff. It is an 6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall important part of our economic strategy to help the not apply to proceedings on consideration and Third Reading. parts of the country that are most reliant on the public sector, and to ensure that we make the transition to a Other proceedings more sustainable model of growth and employment as 7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages smooth as possible. The Bill will ensure that as the from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Norman Lamb.) recovery takes hold, all parts of the country will benefit. It will enable a reduction in taxation on labour nationally, Question agreed to. and provide extra support in targeted areas. It will be good for growth, and for jobs. I commend this Bill to Business without Debate the House. Question put and agreed to. DELEGATED LEGISLATION Bill accordingly read a Second time. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS BILL (PROGRAMME) NUCLEAR ENERGY Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing That the draft Nuclear Decommissioning and Waste Handling Order No. 83A(7), (Designated Technical Matters) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on 18 October, be approved.—(Norman Lamb.) That the following provisions shall apply to the National Insurance Contributions Bill: Question agreed to. Committal Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing 1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. Order No. 118(6)), Proceedings in Public Bill Committee 2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 9 That the draft Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging December 2010. Waste) (Amendment) Regulations 2010, which were laid before 3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the this House on 26 October, be approved.—(Norman Lamb.) first day on which it meets. Question agreed to. 235 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 236

Internet Pornography Girls website, which is certainly not a wholesome place to be. It is truly shocking how easy it is to access that Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House kind of information. do now adjourn.—(Norman Lamb.) These statistics are simply red-lining a problem that every parent recognises—namely, that our children are 7.29 pm viewing material that we would never want them to see, Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): I am grateful for the especially at such a young age. So what can we do about opportunity to debate this matter tonight. I thank it? The current way of controlling access to pornographic Members on both sides of the House who have either material on the internet is via safety settings and filtering made time to attend the debate or expressed support for software, installed and maintained by users—parents, my proposal since it was announced yesterday. I am teachers and carers across the country. Unfortunately, asking for a change in regulation that would require all however, through technological ignorance, time pressure UK-based internet service providers to restrict universal or inertia or for myriad other reasons, this filtering access to pornographic material by implementing a solution is not working. Even among parents who are simple opt-in system based on age verification. regular internet users, only 15% say that they know how to install a filter. It is unfortunately also the case that The internet is a phenomenon that has changed our our children know better than we do how to circumvent lives. I well remember my new year’s resolution in 1996, the filters, while the constant changes in internet technology which was to get to grips with this thing called the and content mean that they can quickly become outdated. internet. Since then, there has been a massive growth in the size and complexity of the online world. In Britain I would like to raise two key issues about the current, today, more than 19 million households—73% of the unsatisfactory situation. The first, as the hon. Member total—have access to the internet, and the speed of for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) has just pointed out, is access and complexity of content are growing all the that access to pornography has a profound and negative time. effect on our children. Against the backdrop of a drip-feed of sexualisation that promotes pole dancing as healthy Children, with their annoying ability to be early exercise for young girls and high-heeled shoes as appropriate adopters of new technology, are particularly heavy users footwear for six-month-old babies, the availability of of the internet, with 99% of 12 to 15-year-olds, 93% of soft-core and hard-core pornography in our homes is eight to 11-year-olds and 75% of five to seven-year-olds damaging our children. saying that they use it regularly. We know that many obtain access in an unsupervised way, which is not Yesterday I attended a Safer Media conference sponsored surprising, given that 31% of 12 to 15-year-olds have by my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate internet access in their bedrooms. We also know that (Mr Burrowes), and heard compelling evidence of this many children use this either knowingly or unknowingly damage, including the explosion in the number of children to access pornography. in this country being referred to addiction clinics with a “pornography problem”, and that fact that many studies Pornography is one of the most widely available demonstrate that watching internet pornography contributes forms of content on the internet, representing 12% of to people seeing women as sex objects, increases sexual the estimated 250 million global websites. Studies suggest, risk-taking such as having unprotected or anal sex, and shockingly, that one in three British children aged 10—a relaxes the boundaries of sexual violence in a completely third of our British 10-year-olds—have viewed pornography unacceptable way. on the internet, while four out of every five children aged 14 to 16 admit to regularly accessing explicit It is of course the ease of access to unimaginable acts photographs and footage on their home computers. The of sexual violence and depravity on the internet that world has really changed. causes the greatest problems for parents. We all know what happens when a bit of innocent investigative clicking leads us to images that are truly sickening. Phillip Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I am very glad that Hodson of the British Association of Counselling and the hon. Lady is raising this important issue tonight. Psychotherapy sums this up very appropriately when he Does she see, as I do, a connection between the figures says: to which she refers and the research by the End Violence “The entire history of human perversion and sexual deviation Against Women coalition that suggests that a third of is there at your fingertips and a great deal of it is free.” young girls experience unwanted sexual contact at school? The second problem in the current system of internet provision is the presumption that it is entirely the consumer’s Claire Perry: The hon. Lady makes an excellent point, responsibility to safeguard their family from harmful as always. I will speak in a moment about the unpleasant imagery.I am a fervent supporter of personal responsibility impacts of access to pornography on our young girls and have an innate dislike of Big Brother regulation, and boys. but there is a form of content delivery in this country The numbers that I have just cited are drawn from a that, in contrast to the internet, is either regulated by relatively small sample, but more extensive studies suggest the Government or has a successful self-regulation model that almost 60% of children aged nine to 19 had viewed that does not appear draconian or heavy-handed. Our online pornography and that the rate of unwitting or television viewing is restricted by sensible Ofcom guidelines, unwanted exposure was increasing sharply. I know that including section 1, which says that material equivalent many parents will have had that sickening feeling as to the British Board of Film Classification’s R18 rating their child clicks through, quite innocently, to a website must not be broadcast at any time, and that adult sex after searching for a particular term. For example, a material cannot be broadcast at any time other than search for American Girls—a series of wholesome, between 22.00 and 05.30 hours on premium subscription culturally appropriate dolls—can end up at the American services or on pay-per-view or night services, which 237 Internet Pornography23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 238

[Claire Perry] content for adults who access to the internet; I would simply like to make it more difficult for our children to have to have mandatory restricted access, including PIN access that material. verification systems. We all accept such regulation of The second objection to my proposal is that it is too our television viewing quite happily. costly and too difficult to implement—that it is a regulatory What we see on our cinema screens is subject to burden on a struggling industry. That is a red herring. regulation by the British Board of Film Classification, Although the content of the internet is generated out and we have accepted that for years. Our high street there in the wild west on millions of international hoardings and general advertising are regulated by the websites, access is concentrated in the hands of a small Advertising Standards Authority, which displayed its number of companies. The Digital Economy Act 2010 teeth recently by removing posters from the Westfield states that there are 450 fixed internet providers in the shopping centre. Government guidelines inform newsagents’ UK, but that the top six, which include household displays of lad magazines and porn magazines. Even names such as BT, Virgin, TalkTalk, BSkyB, Orange the mobile phone industry, which has arguably seen and O2, have more than 90% of the market share. That even more change than the internet in the past 10 years is not a large group of companies to deal with and and whose products are increasingly used to access the regulate. Notably, the combined revenues of that business internet, has introduced a reasonably successful self- model are more than £3 billion a year, so it is a deeply regulation model that requires an adult verification profitable industry in which to engage. check before users can access inappropriate material on Another concern is the definition of pornography. If the internet. we are to have an age-verification system, how do we define pornography? We already have perfectly workable George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): Carphone definitions of adult content provided by the Obscene Warehouse is conducting a campaign on this issue, Publications Act 1959, and provided and used by Ofcom working with Professor Tanya Byron who has been in the television industry.The required blocking technology working with the Government in this area for three or is available in distributed form, with the onus on parents four years. A survey conducted by Carphone Warehouse and users to implement it, but one does not need to be found that 85% of children did not have parental controls Bill Gates to pull the whole thing into a more sensible activated on their mobile phones, 81% of parents felt system of internet regulation. that they needed to know more about how to deal with Interestingly, although the official view of the Internet this problem, and 48% of parents wrongly thought that Service Providers’ Association—confusingly named it was impossible for their child to download adult ISPA—is that any official restrictions would be hugely content on their mobile phone. I welcome the efforts expensive, technically difficult and open to circumvention, being made by the mobile phone companies—there is one provider, TalkTalk, proposes to provide a ratings no doubt that they have tried hard—but does my hon. system in the new year, with an opt-in system including Friend agree that there is still a great deal more to be U, 14, 18 or unclassified ratings similar to those of the done? British Board of Film Classification. Although that is a responsible and welcome step which I commend, it is a Claire Perry: As always, my hon. Friend makes an voluntary system, again with the onus on parents to excellent, fact-filled point. I agree that although the sign up. Surely it would be better for TalkTalk to offer a self-regulation model is better than the one that pertains default U setting and then allow an opt-in to more for internet service providers, there is much more to be advanced levels. done. Why should internet service providers be any different Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): Does from other content providers? Why is the onus on my hon. Friend agree that this is simply a matter of parents, teachers and carers to act as web guides and consistency? We think it perfectly reasonable for policemen? Where is the industry responsibility? Governments to pass laws that prevent young people Three objections are usually raised when such changes from accessing damaging things such as cigarettes and as I am proposing tonight are discussed. The first is that alcohol, but pornography is just as damaging, if not any restriction on access to pornography on the internet worse, because damage to the mind can be permanent, is an infringement of free speech. I hope I am no Mary whereas damage to the body can be temporary and Whitehouse figure, although she was right about many recovered from. As a matter of consistency, therefore, things, but the nature of the internet has led to a Governments should act as she suggests. proliferation of imagery and a discussion of sexual practices which is quite mind-boggling in its awfulness. Claire Perry: I thank my hon. Friend for making his I will not read out some of the information that was usual deeply eloquent and relevant points. He is right. provided at the Safer Media conference yesterday, but I, We have thrown up our hands, put the issue in the “too at the age of 46, was introduced to sexual practices—one hard” basket—forgive the pun—and basically said that or two clicks away—that I have never heard of and this is something Governments should not regulate. I simply cannot conceive of having my daughters view. It believe it is. was simply sickening. The third objection to such proposals is that if we It is simply beyond belief that people can find sexual have age-verification software, children will just lie about pleasure in viewing images of children, men and women their age and access the information anyway. The previous being subject to the worst sexual degradation and violence. Government sensibly introduced workable age-verification If that is our definition of free speech, the definition is restrictions on online gambling sites in 2005, however—an wrong. That is not the purpose of tonight’s debate, excellent model that works well and searches financial however. I do not propose to reduce or restrict inappropriate and electoral databases to verify that users are old 239 Internet Pornography23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 240 enough to enter the site and engage in the gambling subject and giving the House the opportunity to debate within. It is a workable model, the previous Government it? She put her case incredibly forcefully. We are used to introduced it, and they are to be commended for doing so. saying that we are middle-aged when policemen start to Britain has taken steps towards internet safety before. look younger. Perhaps we can add a new phrase to the The industry acted independently and responsibly on lexicon: when we start saying Mary Whitehouse was child abuse imagery by setting up the Internet Watch right, we might be approaching middle age. My hon. Foundation, which finds sites displaying abuse that the Friend’s points were very well made, and chime very industry then works to block. We have led the world in much with my thinking. introducing that technology, and the people and The subject of this debate has been misleadingly organisations involved are to be strongly commended. referred to as the regulation of access to pornography It has been a huge success: the amount of child sex on the internet; what we are really talking about is abuse content reported or found to be hosted in the UK ensuring that we can protect not only children from has dropped from 18% to less than 1%; and 95% of our accessing unsuitable adult material, but adults from the broadband services use that blocking technology. It can extreme versions of pornography—to which, I am glad be done. to say, my hon. Friend only alluded. As she said in her The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) is opening remarks, the internet is fast becoming the also to be commended for introducing the Criminal dominant medium not just in this country but all over Justice and Immigration Act 2008, which brought in a the world. Moreover, as she noted at the end of her ban on the possession of extreme pornographic material. speech, when it converges with television it will become That is highly commendable, but of course the content all pervasive. The struggle to deal with what one might is there on the internet and available for viewing by us loosely call internet regulation is something that we are and our children with one or two clicks of a mouse. having to come to grips with very rapidly as the internet advances so speedily. All that progress has been made, but regulating internet I found out to my cost only last week, after making a access to inappropriate content continues to stump speech on net neutrality, that anyone who ventures into successive Governments and, in my view, the industry. I the vexed subject of internet regulation, in the broadest believe the time has come to stop ducking an issue of sense, can set a number of hares running. There are enormous concern to parents, teachers and carers many people who believe that the internet should not be throughout the country. We are often ridiculed for regulated at all. This Government’s position is that the raising it, barraged with information on why the internet internet should be lightly regulated, so that we benefit should be treated differently, bamboozled with the problem from many of the advances that have come about from of international co-operation and told that it is our a lightly regulated internet. Although we are focusing in responsibility and no one else’s to keep our children safe, this debate on the internet’s negative aspects, it is important I beg to differ. It is time for Britain to take a lead on to remember that a lightly regulated internet has brought the matter and for the Government, with their commitment transformative companies to the web. As we learned to family friendly policies, to act. Without action, and from a piece of research published a couple of weeks with technological convergence, we will increasingly be ago, in just 15 to 20 years, internet commerce has come able to access internet pornography and all internet to represent something in the order of 9% to 10% of our content via television, raising the prospect of this damaging economy. and degrading material, which is shocking enough when This remains a very serious subject, which deserves viewed as thumbnails or on an A4-sized computer very serious consideration. As with any area of life, it is screen, being piped into our homes and displayed in vital that children and the vulnerable be protected. high-definition glory on 4-foot-wide television screens. Where there is harm and safeguards are not heeded, we The arguments for passive acceptance and self-regulation need effective sanctions to prosecute illegal acts. are past their sell-by date, and it is time to regulate the Before addressing my hon. Friend’s specific points, it provision of internet services in this country. We already might be helpful to set out the issue in the broader successfully regulate British television channels, cinema context of the Government’s approach to the regulation screens, high street hoardings and newspaper shelves to of adult material in general. It is important to remember stop our children seeing inappropriate images, and mobile that we regulate adult material, regardless of the medium phone companies have come together to restrict access through which it is transmitted or published. The to adult material, so why should the internet be any Government’s policy is that controls on published material, different? including material published online, should strike a British internet service providers should share the balance between freedom of expression and protection responsibility for keeping our children safe, and there of the public. It should also be proportionate to the should be an opt-in system that uses age verification for potential harm caused. access to such material. I urge the Minister to engage Clearly, there is material that should not be published with the internet service providers to set a timeline for at all. This is covered by the criminal law. All material those changes and, if they will not act, to move to published or broadcast in the UK is subject to the regulate an industry that is doing so much damage to Obscene Publications Act 1959, under which it is a our children. criminal offence to publish any article or image considered to be obscene. The Act also applies to the distribution of material on the internet or by mobile phone. It is 7.47 pm important to note the general principle that an action The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, that is illegal if committed offline is also illegal if Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): May I committed online. Just because it is on the web, that say how grateful I am to my hon. Friend the Member does not make it all right. This applies both to the for Devizes (Claire Perry) for raising this important distribution of illegal material and to harmful behaviour. 241 Internet Pornography23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 242

Claire Perry: I am grateful to the Minister for launching My hon. Friend also referred to the work of the into what sounds as if it will be a full and reasoned Internet Watch Foundation, which I am due to meet argument, but is it not the case that there have been shortly to discuss self-regulation of the internet. As she almost no successful prosecutions of British companies pointed out, the IWF was set up in 1996 by UK ISPs to within our criminal jurisdiction domain—I am thinking enable members of the public to report child abuse particularly of the Perrin case, but also subsequent content in newsgroups or websites hosted anywhere in cases—and that it is almost impossible to apply international the world, as well as obscene content hosted in the UK. law to shut down what we know to be blatant breaches If that content is considered potentially illegal, the IWF of the regulation governing “appropriate adult material”? passes the details to the UK police to start action against the originators, and will seek to get the material Mr Vaizey: I shall come to the point that the web is taken down at source or ask ISPs to deny access to the global, so there is an international aspect to these issues. websites concerned. On the specific question of whether there have been I am very interested in the work of the Internet prosecutions, it is not necessarily the case that the Watch Foundation, because I believe that it provides a number of prosecutions reveals the effectiveness of an model that is now well established and working effectively. Act. The existence of an Act might often be enough to The issue I particularly want to discuss with the IWF is keep people within the relevant boundaries. As my hon. whether its work, which has hitherto focused on child Friend says, the internet is a global phenomenon and abuse content, can be widened to cover some of the people can access content from other jurisdictions. I other issues that my hon. Friend has raised this evening. will address that point in a few moments. As she rightly As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) points out, I am trying to build a reasoned argument. pointed out, access to online pornography is not a problem for the UK alone. We have to recognise that Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Does the Minister the internet is a global network. This brings with it real agree that this is a worldwide phenomenon, not just a challenges to the effective regulation of access to United Kingdom matter? It is often other countries in pornography. The overwhelming bulk of obscene material the world that originate those websites, and then they published on the internet originates abroad, sometimes are broadcast in the UK. What steps does the hon. in countries that do not share our approach to such Gentleman envisage us taking with other countries, material. It is simply the case, and has been for many whether those be Brazil, Spain or elsewhere, to ensure years, that much pornographic material that it would be that we do not allow access to such material in the UK? illegal to publish in the UK remains legal to publish in many other European countries, and even in the United Mr Vaizey: I am coming to self-regulation, which is States. what I understand my hon. Friend to be calling for on The UK ISPs take a responsible approach to the the part of our internet service providers, to prevent content that they host, both of their own volition and in access to inappropriate content. It is obviously not for co-operation with law enforcement and Government this country to change the obscenity or pornographic agencies. Where they are advised that content that they laws in other jurisdictions, but it is important to recognise host in the UK contravenes UK legislation, they will that we are dealing with content from beyond our own readily remove it. jurisdiction. Let me press on. I shall make my argument My hon. Friend talked about an age-verified opt-in before accepting further interventions, so that hon. procedure for internet access to pornography hosted in Members will be in a position to see the argument in the UK. This is already the case, although my hon. the round. Friend made her own forceful argument that it might On 26 January last year, Parliament further strengthened not be effective enough. The managers of websites controls in the UK by making unlawful extreme featuring mature content have a legal responsibility to pornographic material, including pornographic material indicate clearly on their front page that those sites are containing explicit sexual violence that is life-threatening unsuitable for anybody under the age of 18. Additionally, or likely to result in serious injury or bestiality. The when websites charge for access, they must place their Government also increased the maximum penalty for adult content behind a credit card barrier, to reduce offences under the Obscene Publications Act from three further the risk of children and young people accessing to five years’ imprisonment. Under the Protection of it. We will continue to consider how that protection Children Act 1978, as amended, the UK has an absolute might be made more effective. prohibition on the taking, making, circulation and possession with a view to distribution of any indecent Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): Is the Minister photograph of a child under 18. Such offences carry a aware of the private Member’s Bill proposed by the maximum sentence of 10 years’ imprisonment. hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), which There is also a law against the distribution of indecent is designed to remove the anonymity of prepaid credit images of children. Section 160 of the Criminal Justice cards for purchases under £100, whereby such material Act 1988 makes the simple possession of indecent can be anonymously purchased by under-age people—or photographs of children an offence, and it carries a by anybody else? That is important, because it is what maximum sentence of five years’ imprisonment. In this drives the child pornography industry. context I am delighted to be able to welcome the appointment of Peter Davies, the new chief executive of Mr Vaizey: That is a very interesting point, and I CEOP—the Child Exploitation and Online Protection suspect that the consumer credit Minister is aware of it. Centre. I want to pay tribute to the work of his predecessor, I will certainly sit down with him and discuss whether Jim Gamble, as well as to the outstanding work of there is a read-across into the issue we are discussing CEOP in tackling the sexual exploitation of children. this evening. 243 Internet Pornography23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 244

As I said earlier, a UK-based website was recently Parliament. As my hon. Friend said, all UK operators forced to take down its front page because it hosted operate a parental control regime on mobile phones adult content that was accessed by under-18s. That that should prevent access to over-18 sites. It is set as a shows that there are some examples where this is working. default on all phones when they are purchased, and it is for the consumer to request its removal, subject to proof Claire Perry: I am sorry to be constantly interrupting of age. Ofcom provides detailed information on parental the Minister, because I know that he has a great deal of controls and access to adult content on its website. material to get through, but I think that he is going However, that goes only some way to protecting young down the dead end of focusing on content. As he said, mobile users from harmful content. Unfortunately, it is much of the content is provided and hosted by websites not possible to tackle content that is shared via bluetooth, that are outside the United Kingdom’s jurisdiction. We for example, on a phone-to-phone basis. That is why the all know that the age 18 verification is simply a figment, work of organisations such as UKCCIS is so important and that there is almost no way of enforcing it. What causes me to have a huge amount of sympathy The Minister has cited one website, but there are with what my hon. Friend has said is the fact that I do more than a quarter of a billion websites in the world, not subscribe to the view that internet service providers of which more than 10% are pornographic. I firmly are simply dumb pipes. In opposition and now in believe that the onus of responsibility lies with the six government, I have waged something of a campaign to British companies that are piping 90% of the content that effect. According to one school of thought, ISPs into our homes to provide some sort of opt-in software, are there simply to channel the content to homes, and so that we need not chase the red herrings of random should not interfere with what goes down their pipes. It porn websites in jurisdictions over which we have no is often said that asking them to do so would be the control. equivalent of asking Royal Mail to open every envelope and parcel and have a look at the contents. In that Mr Vaizey: I hear what my hon. Friend says, and I context, the hon. Lady rightly identified a red herring in will address it in a moment, but first I want to talk relation to both expense and the idea of regulation. I about the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. I do also believe that we should not over-regulate the internet, not think that this is a dead end, because UKCCIS does and that self-regulation should be the first stop before incredibly important work. It focuses on content, self- we consider Government regulation or legislation. However, regulation and joined-up government. Although, as I I think it should be put on the record that ISPs can play have said, we have a legal framework, that framework a role, and, indeed, have played a very effective role in alone will not keep our children safe online. Real, combating child abuse content online. effective protection for children can be achieved through parents, charities, industry, law enforcement authorities and Government working together. That is why Professor Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): I commend Tanya Byron—to whom my hon. Friend referred—was my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) asked to take charge of an independent review on child on initiating such an important debate so early in the internet safety, which led directly to the launch of evening. I am glad that the Minister has enunciated the UKCCIS. principle that ISPs are not merely a pipe through which information flows, but he has not taken the opportunity UKCCIS is chaired by Ministers from the Department to point out that they could do more. Will he take that for Education and the Home Office, and Ministers from opportunity now? other Departments, including mine, attend its meetings regularly. It brings together more than 170 organisations from across industry, including internet service providers, Mr Vaizey: Now I understand why my hon. Friend is the third sector, law enforcement authorities and the regarded as a rising star. I was about to say that ISPs devolved Administrations, so that they can take positive could do more. My hon. Friend’s anticipation of my steps to help children to stay safe online. next sentence was almost uncanny, especially as I am now speaking off the cuff rather than from a prepared text. I assure my hon. Friend that the Government are working with the internet industry, through UKCCIS, We have seen that ISPs can do very effective work in to create an online environment in which children are removing child abuse websites. We also know—and I protected from potentially harmful or inappropriate mentioned this during my speech on net neutrality last content. We want our young people to develop the week—that they can manage the traffic that crosses knowledge, skills and resilience that will enable them to their network in order to give their consumers a good avoid accessing such content, and, if they do come service. A couple of weeks ago, I had a round table with across it, to avoid it in future and report it to the ISPs and rights holders from the music and film industries appropriate authorities when it causes major concern. and from sport to discuss what measures we could take UKCCIS is also working to encourage parents to take to provide more legal content as the Digital Economy responsibility for what their children see online. I hear Act 2010 comes down the line. It seems to me that, what my hon. Friend says about the need for ISPs to given that rights holders are fully aware of the websites block this content, but I think it important for parents that are distributing their content illegally, ISPs could to take responsibility, and to use the filters and parental do more in that regard. However, what I learnt from the controls that are available in current technology to meeting was that it is important to arrange for people to prevent their children from accessing harmful material. sit around a table, discuss the issues, and seek ways in My hon. Friend pointed out that people access which we can work together to make the system operate pornography not just through their computers, but effectively. through their mobile phones. That is another issue to After that meeting, which was productive—I felt that which I am hugely sympathetic, and it has been raised in two hours we had made substantial progress—I with me in my capacity as a constituency Member of made it absolutely clear that I would follow it up. It 245 Internet Pornography23 NOVEMBER 2010 Internet Pornography 246

[Mr Vaizey] make £3 billion in profit, it is important also to remember that we, as users of the internet, rely on them to make would not be a one-off meeting that we would forget those profits so that they can invest in the broadband about, perhaps returning to it in a year’s time. I should infrastructure and we can have the best superfast broadband like to offer the same opportunity to my hon. Friend the in 2015. Member for Devizes, and perhaps to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) and Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): The debate other interested Members, as well as to charities and is concentrating on the issue that matters most, which is other organisations that are involved in the debate. extreme pornography. We are not concerned about nudity If we do have such a meeting, it must not interfere or ordinary sex. Most of us have a naked body, and very with, or cut across, the important work that UKCCIS is few of us inherited celibacy from our parents. The doing. However, I think it important for the side that is Minister mentioned the Royal Mail. Sending pornography concerned about the issue—which consists of most of through the mail is illegal. Can the Minister say whether us, especially those of us who are parents—to sit around the six ISPs who are currently providing the channels in a table with ISPs, air their concerns, ask questions, and question are the organisations who came to his meeting, establish what further action they can take, and for the and if they were not, will he have them in as well please? ISPs to respond. I assure my hon. Friend the Member Mr Vaizey: We had four of the main internet service for Devizes that if we have such a meeting, I will not providers, I think. I do not want to get too carried away leave it there. We will see what progress we make, and we and go to the other extreme. The ISPs in the UK do act will follow it up. to take down illegal content where it is pointed out to them, and they do hugely important work in taking Claire Perry: It is uncanny how the Minister is down child abuse images. With the greatest of respect to anticipating my questions. I can see why he is a risen my hon. Friend, who has inadvertently signed an early-day star. motion put forward by a Labour MP calling for an I should welcome the opportunity to participate in open internet—a slight distortion of my speech on net such a round table, and I know that many other Members neutrality—we are, to a certain extent, talking about would as well, but does the Minister agree that it must ordinary sex. We are talking about preventing children not be simply more jaw, jaw? What we need is a time from having access to inappropriate content, and how frame for improvement. I think that there is now almost we can work with ISPs to make it that little bit more universal acceptance that we have a huge problem. The difficult for them to do so. fire is burning out of control, and we need to be My free-wheeling conclusion to this speech has probably specific. We need to say, “Clean up your house within a not been helpful, so it might be helpful if I pull together certain time, or we will come and clean it for you”. a coherent final few remarks. We believe in an open lightly regulated internet. The internet is, by and large, a Mr Vaizey: The House will unite in describing me as a force for good. It is central to our lives and our economy, risen star. It would probably be accurate to say that I and a Government have to be wary about regulating or have risen as far as I am going to rise. passing legislation. Nevertheless, the advent of the internet I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that it should has brought a number of problems. One of them is the not be just jaw, jaw. I do not want to set any hares proliferation of images of child abuse, which I believe is running, which is what I seem to do every time I talk being dealt with extremely effectively through the Child about anything to do with the internet, but I think that Exploitation and Online Protection Centre and UKCCIS, the meeting with the rights holders and internet service with the co-operation of ISPs. ISPs remain under an providers was productive both because it was probably obligation to take down illegal pornographic content, the first time they had sat around a table with an honest which can extend beyond child abuse images, but there broker—me, representing the Government—sitting between remain, from my position as a Minister, two issues. One them, and because we have the Digital Economy Act of them is access to illegal content in terms of music, 2010 on the statute book, controversial though it is. If film and the creative industries, on which I am working anyone ever wants to start a Twitter storm, they should with ISPs and rights holders. I take the second issue write something about net neutrality or the Digital very seriously as a constituency MP alone: how we can Economy Act. Especially if they write that they are in work harder to ensure that it is more difficult for our favour of that Act, they will then see what comes. children to come across inappropriate adult content. I It is important that we impress upon ISPs that we firmly believe we can make progress, in co-operation take this issue very seriously. Trite though it may sound, with the ISPs, and that we can proceed on the basis of it is also important for people to know that sitting self-regulation. As I have said, I think it is important around a table and exchanging views can be an effective that we meet and sit around a table to exchange views, means of getting across both the views of the ISPs and and I look forward to brokering such a meeting with my the huge concern expressed by my hon. Friend the hon. Friend the Member for Devizes and a number of Member for Devizes on behalf of her constituents and organisations she deems to be appropriate. the country at large. She has made this an important Question put and agreed to. issue and raised it in Parliament. It is perfectly legitimate for the ISPs to raise issues such as costs and regulation 8.14 pm because although, as my hon. Friend pointed out, they House adjourned. 1WH 23 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 2WH

due to its proximity, from London. I have lived adjacent Westminster Hall to the AONB for almost three years and can confirm that it is one of Britain’s most beautiful and ecologically Tuesday 23 November 2010 rich landscapes. The preferred route of HS 2 crosses the AONB at its widest point, in contradiction to the policy followed for [MR MIKE WEIR in the Chair] HS 1. In Kent, the route of HS 1 was amended to avoid the North Downs AONB. By contrast, HS 2 appears to High Speed 2 have been deliberately routed through the least spoilt, Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting widest part of the Chilterns. be now adjourned.—(Mr Vara.) Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): 9.30 am My hon. Friend mentioned High Speed 1. HS 1 was introduced in Gillingham and Rainham, in Kent, about Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): I am grateful for the a year ago and there are lessons to be learnt from that. opportunity to open this Adjournment debate on the Does he agree that a new fast service should not be principal infrastructure project of our time: High Speed introduced at the expense of the existing train lines? Rail 2. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, The number of services from Gillingham to Victoria Mr Weir. and Cannon Street stations was cut. Lessons have to The railway system of Great Britain is the oldest in be learnt. The routes, services and timetable cannot be the world. It developed from a patchwork of private changed at the expense of HS 1. Another lesson has to local rail links provided by entrepreneurs, and via be learnt in terms of cost and affordability: HS 1 fares amalgamations, temporary state control, nationalisation, in Kent have increased by 30%. highly regulated privatisation and part-renationalisation it became today’s system, which is, as one of my colleagues Steve Baker: I agree. I shall return to the economics on the Transport Committee has said, “neither fish nor of HS 1 later. fowl”. Some 59 different protected species have been recorded It seems that this country has tried every conceivable within 1 km of the route of HS 2. The recommended governance model for rail, yet the subject remains route involves tunnelling directly through an aquifer, contentious. I should like to deal with three questions. risking reducing the water table and exacerbating low First, should a high-speed rail route run through flow in the Chess and Misbourne. It also risks possible Buckinghamshire—specifically, the Chilterns area of contamination of the ground water. The environmental outstanding natural beauty—against the wishes of local impact of the recommended route of HS 2 would be people? Secondly, should any area of the country be enormous. I am therefore calling for an official forced to accept high-speed rail? Thirdly, if transport environmental impact assessment of the preferred route resources and capital are scarce, what is the best approach well in advance of the planned consultation, so that to relieving that scarcity? I intend to demonstrate that interested parties can fully digest its findings. In Kent, High Speed 2 should not be run through Buckinghamshire the route was altered to run beside the existing M20, a or any area of the country and that a new, more major strategic transport corridor, which reduced classically Liberal and Conservative approach should incremental noise pollution and landscape damage. I be taken towards British transport policy. am surprised that a similar approach has not been I acknowledge the help and support of my adopted for HS 2. The M40 in my constituency is Buckinghamshire parliamentary colleagues in preparing infamous for its proximity to housing and for its meandering this speech. However, I have not sought their approval path. for this final version. My colleagues in the Government Opposition to high-speed rail is substantial in have emphasised that their opposition does not necessarily Buckinghamshire. On 7 November, an HS 2 rally took extend beyond the route. I also acknowledge the large place in Great Missenden, where more than 2,000 people number of high-quality submissions I have received demonstrated their opposition. At the rally, the noise from the people of Buckinghamshire. I am sorry that that HS 2 will make was played to the audience. Many time has prevented me from including all their important were shocked by what they heard. The noise over the points. speakers may or may not accurately represent what I should like to make clear my support for the HS 2 will sound like, but it reinforces the need for HS2 Government’s intent. I am certain that the Government— Ltd or the Department for Transport to provide noise the Transport team in particular—are fully committed maps and proper analysis of the noise impact that to this country’s economic renewal and all-round success, people will face. HS2 Ltd said, in a letter dated 8 October and I applaud them for it. I am most grateful to the about noise assessment studies: Secretary of State for confirming that the public “On the subject of noise assessments, an Appraisal of Sustainability consultation will cover not just the route, but the strategic is currently being finalised and will be published ready for the case for high-speed rail. I am relieved that the Government launch of the consultation in the new year”. will make their arguments with an open mind. I shall We are impatient. It is now well over a month since try to do likewise. then, but there is no sign of any further information. It First, on local issues, should a high-speed rail route is unacceptable for HS2 Ltd to keep delaying this important run through Buckinghamshire, specifically the Chilterns study. AONB? The Chilterns AONB is a rare, precious landscape Part of the planned preferred route slices through a benefiting not just those who live there but the millions corner of my neighbouring constituency at Denham in who visit every year from across the country, particularly, Buckinghamshire. The route enters the constituency 3WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 4WH

[Steve Baker] one’s interest. I am delighted that the Government wish to ensure the prosperity of the whole nation, but it has through a site of special scientific interest in the Colne not been demonstrated that HS 2 will deliver that. To valley. There is no doubt that the railway line, which at justify such a grievous impact on the people and landscape that point would be on some type of viaduct, will have a of Buckinghamshire—and indeed along the entire length seriously adverse impact on the environment. For example, of the route, wherever it is located—the Government the railway would culvert the River Colne along a must place the economic and environmental case for the several hundred yard stretch in an area where there has programme beyond all doubt. I do not believe they have been a long struggle to maintain the rural aspect of a yet done so. river valley that has significant environmental importance. High-speed rail is not commercially viable, so the With all this in mind, will the Minister please ensure expense is justified with a wider cost-benefit analysis. publication of the environmental impact assessment at That analysis relies on assumptions, including excessive the earliest possible moment? demand, generous benefits and a flawed analysis of the There is no benefit to Buckinghamshire from accepting alternatives. I shall only touch on each point today, but high-speed rail. The project would have to be bullied I am sure that campaigners will furnish us with full through against the well-grounded wishes of those affected, details during the course of the inquiry. causing not just the environmental damage described The projected increase in demand is open to challenges but also infringing the property rights of large numbers that include demand saturation, a broken relationship of people. Doing so would thoroughly undermine the with GDP, out-of-date data, neglect of new technology, Government’s commitment to increasing people’s power and inadequate anticipation of competition from classic over their own lives. From Buckinghamshire’s perspective, rail—a problem that blighted HS 1. The case for benefits the answer to whether HS 2 should run across the neglects the fact that many of us work on the train, and county is, of course, a resounding no. Buckinghamshire it depends on implausible levels of crowding. The people are bound to object to a programme that would Department for Transport’s alternative, Rail Package 2, merely blight our beautiful county and trespass on local is paid too little attention, despite meeting demand with people’s businesses and the quiet enjoyment of their less crowding than would occur should the HS 2 programme homes. I find myself asking, “Should any area of the go ahead. At £2 billion, the package is much less country be forced to accept high-speed rail?” expensive. It is better value for money and capable of Having had the privilege of living in many areas of incremental delivery, setting it free from the risks associated the country throughout my adult life, it is my view that with long-range economic forecasting. Rail companies Buckinghamshire’s arguments would find parallels in could lengthen trains to nine, 10 or 11 cars. That would most parts of the country, particularly those with designated increase capacity from 294 to 444 seats—an increase of areas of outstanding natural beauty. Why should anyone 51%. Unused first-class capacity could also be swapped tolerate the demolition of their home or business? Why for standard seats, thereby further increasing total capacity. should anyone accept the ruination of a swathe of It is a myth that the UK lacks a fast national railway countryside? Why should anyone agree to so much network; we have had one for a long time. We have noise and disruption? The answer, of course, lies in the routes capable of 125 mph, with quicker rail journey national interest. times between the capital and the five largest cities than To justify so grotesque an intrusion into property in other major western European countries. For instance, rights and local collective enjoyment of the natural the average journey time in the UK is 145 minutes. It is environment, the Government must be certain that the 151 minutes in Spain, 184 in Italy, 221 in France and benefits of HS 2 to the whole nation would far outweigh 244 in Germany. In short, it appears that for £2 billion, the high costs that would be imposed along the route. the Government could have a complete, low-risk but Clearly, if a high-speed rail network will usher in a new unglamorous solution to the problem of rail capacity, age of incomparable prosperity for the whole country, and rather sooner than HS 2 could be delivered. Therefore, regenerating the industrial north and reuniting it with I am not convinced that £30 billion—or more—of the south, we must all support it. taxpayers’ money would be wisely risked on HS 2.

Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I congratulate David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Does my the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He makes a hon. Friend accept that every infrastructure investment strong case, as one would expect from a constituency and transport initiative imaginable could, in the short MP working on behalf of his constituents. Does he term, be done more cost-effectively with the sort of accept that there may be some benefits for his constituents? incremental approach he has just mentioned? That does The alternative to high-speed rail is that people do not not take away the need to think strategically, and travel or—more likely—that journeys are made by air occasionally to do things that are more than just or by road. That has an impact on the environment in incremental. the form of air pollution, for example, and noise nuisance, which might also affect his constituents. Steve Baker: My hon. Friend makes an interesting point that we should explore at some length. In the final Steve Baker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her part of my speech I shall set out why I think we have intervention and I will return to some of those points, been taking the wrong approach to infrastructure in in particular how we make a judgment between road, this country. rail and air travel. Targeted investment in existing infrastructure would If it is not true that high-speed rail is in the national ultimately offer greater benefits to the whole country interest, and if such a project will offer only marginal not served by HS 2, including the south-west, south and uncertain benefits at vast expense, it would be in no Wales, East Anglia and the north-east. Such an approach 5WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 6WH would provide a visible demonstration of productive many economists? Will he also confirm that he stood on investment during a time of austerity. I am aware that a manifesto platform at the election that promised to the environmental case for HS 2 can be similarly attacked, “begin work immediately to create a high speed rail line connecting but given the time, I shall simply quote Mr Steve London and Heathrow with Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds” Rodrick, chief officer of the Chilterns Conservation as the “first step” towards achieving a vision of a Board: “national high speed rail network to join up major cities across “The case for HS 2 is largely built on capturing the internal England, Scotland and Wales”? aviation market, but 80% of all journeys between Manchester and London already involve the train…These trains will use double, possibly triple, the energy of normal trains. Where’s that energy Steve Baker: I am most grateful to the hon. Lady for going to come from? You either have to bank on nuclear coming giving me an opportunity to deal with that point, in on stream or, more likely, power stations running on fossil fuels, which I see she takes some pleasure. In the first place, I which will involve significant carbon emissions.” note that economists take a range of views on these I also recommend Christian Wolmar’s 15 September matters, and mine are perhaps rather more free market article for RAIL magazine, which states that the arguments than most. On the second point, about the manifesto, against HS 2 are mounting. His tour de force concludes Conservative candidates across Buckinghamshire stood by explaining that HS 2 would absorb money that for election saying they would oppose HS 2 and knowing would otherwise be spent on classic rail in an environment that that was in contradiction to the manifesto. I personally of reduced funding. He writes: made it clear at the time that I would oppose HS 2. “We cannot have it all. Let’s work to protect what is essential, If it is true that economic calculation is likely to be rather than trying to reach for the moon.” hampered, if not irrational, under the present system—I Finally, I will turn to rail policy and transport strategy am certain that it is—we should not be surprised that in the round. If transport resources and the necessary there is so much disagreement about economics in land and capital are scarce, what is the best approach to respect of rail. We should not be surprised when the ensure optimal resource allocation? It has long been Institute of Economic Affairs estimates that the return argued by the Conservative party, as it was once argued on HS 1 is less than half of 1% of the Government’s by Liberals, that unhampered social co-operation in the investment per year. Nor should we be astounded that free market is the most efficient and effective way to some markets for high-speed rail already show signs of allocate resources and relieve scarcity. With that in saturation. For example, demand on the lines from mind, I asked the House of Commons Library to Tokyo to Osaka and Brussels to Paris is not growing prepare a summary entitled “Price controls and state anywhere near as fast as forecast. According to the intervention in the rail market.” It is not, of course, a Financial Times, China is reviewing its high-speed rail simple statement that there are no price controls or state plans for affordability and practicality.Its latest high-speed interventions in the rail market; it is six pages long and line is operating at less than half capacity, and it is covers passenger franchise specification, the control of projected that the lines will never make enough money fares and rolling stock procurement. It also sketches the to repay the large loans used to build them. process of almost continuous organisational change I shall leave the last word on the economics of high-speed that has dogged rail since nationalisation in 1948. rail to the IEA’s Dr Richard Wellings, who wrote in Contemporary rail is not characterised by property relation to High Speed 1: rights, freedom to contract, open competition and “Perhaps an unsubsidised international service could just about unhampered prices. cover maintenance costs, with the sunk capital effectively written off. But far better returns could almost certainly be achieved by My task today is not that of setting out a new free shutting down the line and disposing of the assets—which include market transport strategy, and I will not pretend I am substantial plots of land, tunnels under London and the Thames, able to do so. However, I wish to emphasise that rail, and large amounts of scrap metal.” and road transport in particular, are not capitalist systems HS 2 should certainly not be driven through in the conventional sense but hybrid systems of heavily Buckinghamshire, where it would have an egregious regulated and subsidised public and private companies. effect on some of our finest countryside, but it is not We have inherited a rail system whose franchise agreements clear at all that HS 2 should be driven through any part descend into such detail as specifying a “biennial talent of our country. HS 2 appears economically irrational: it management programme” and even “time with your requires tens of billions of pounds to increase the UK’s manager sessions.” That is not freedom to contract, and transport capacity by about 1%. Less money could be clearly rail operators are not free to set market fares. better spent. Moreover, that economic irrationality is Of course, I do not want fares to rise any more than almost certainly attributable to the prevailing orthodoxy my colleagues do, but we should admit that the rail in rail policy. It is an orthodoxy of planning, not the system does not operate in a free market and that free market. We are at the end of a wasteful century of therefore economic calculation is likely to be hampered, socialisation. Today, the basis of transport and, more if not irrational. We simply cannot know whether today’s broadly, infrastructure economics presupposes planning. rail economics are optimal, but it seems likely that they It should therefore be no surprise that transport is are not. characterised by scarcity, excessive prices and political tension. Jo Swinson: The hon. Gentleman is making the point To return to where I began, I applaud sincerely the that the current rail network is not a truly free-market, Government’s noble intent, but I note that rail has not capitalist system, but will he not accept that there is a been governed by the free market for a very long time. role for the state to play in markets where there is There is no doubt that this country needs good-quality market failure—for example, where there has to be a infrastructure. We should create the conditions in which national network—as has been well documented by unsubsidised enterprise can deliver the optimal solution. 7WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 8WH

[Steve Baker] Similarly, if only one leg of the system from the north will come into London, that will mean that the system is That would be the classical Liberal and Conservative vulnerable to a major crash or terrorist activity that approach. In my view, the solution that would emerge is would close down the whole system. I make no comment not likely to be high-speed rail. I believe that this on where the line should run outside London, but it programme should be cancelled. seems to me that rather than a Y-shape arrangement, there ought to be an H-shape arrangement, so that Several hon. Members rose— coming into London are two legs, at least one of which is directly connected to High Speed 1 and would allow Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): Order. A number of trains to come from the east side of Scotland, and the hon. Members wish to speak, and obviously time is north-east and Yorkshire, and, if they wanted to, come limited. I hope to start the winding-up speeches by into Paddington. Other trains from, say, Glasgow or 10.40 am, so I urge all hon. Members to be reasonably Manchester would be able to cross over and come into brief in their speeches. I call Frank Dobson. wherever the link to High Speed 1 was located. The scheme is badly thought out and extremely expensive. It will be amazingly damaging for my constituency. It 9.54 am should be withdrawn and criteria should be established Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): When that set out what on earth it is supposed to achieve. We I first looked at the plans for High Speed 2, I was should then come up with proposals that go some way principally concerned with its immediate impact on my towards achieving that. constituency where it comes into Euston station. Its I will move on to the scheme’s affordability. I have, in effect there would be the demolition of 350 flats, about theory, a degree in economics. I am convinced that two thirds of a small park, St James’s gardens, being economic forecasts for more than 18 months nearly concreted over, a massive inhibition on the much-needed always turn out to be total rubbish. I therefore do not rebuilding of Maria Fidelis Catholic girls secondary give much weight to anybody’s economic forecasts or school, and problems for people in the Primrose Hill assessments of viability for or against the scheme. History area, whose homes would be tunnelled under in a big shows that all the major railway engineering projects of way. However, the more I looked at the proposal, the the 19th century went bust, were involved deeply in more I thought that it was not just a matter of the fraud or, more commonly, both. I do not think that a damage that it was likely to do in my constituency, but major railway project has ever paid back the original that the whole project of bringing the line into Euston investors, unless they have benefited from fraud, such as station and other aspects of the proposal were daft and the huge Ponzi scheme of the line to the north-east. I expensive. think we must accept that such projects never will repay In saying that the London terminal should be Euston their investors and that there is no free-market solution. station, the projectors had to come up with ways of Apparently, the Institute of Economic Affairs wants to coping with the fact that Euston station is not on the rip up High Speed 1. Heathrow Express line and is not intended to be on the Crossrail route, so it does not have major connections Steve Baker: On coming to this place, I did not think that would be important for High Speed 2. To cope with that I would find myself much in agreement with the that, the projectors proposed building a sort of super- right hon. Gentleman, but I am delighted to hear him parkway station at Old Oak Common—more commonly speak against rail. Would it not have been good if the known as Wormwood Scrubs—and then rebuilding Euston market had stopped the rail programmes that he has as well. Bringing the line into Euston would also involve mentioned because insufficient people freely chose them the boring of a 5½ mile tunnel, which as we all know is to make them profitable? Money would then not have a fairly expensive item. been wasted on such infrastructure. If the projectors had instead proposed that the line Frank Dobson: I have never heard anybody suggest came into Paddington station, that would have made that the 19th-century railway boom in every industrialised sense, because Paddington is already the terminus for country in the world did not contribute substantially to the Heathrow Express and will be on the Crossrail the economic development of those countries. Perhaps route. The idea of coming into Euston seems to spring some people at the Institute of Economic Affairs are so entirely from the fact that trains from Birmingham have stupid and reactionary that they believe that, but that is always come into Euston. There is no more justification by the bye. for it than that. The impact of the scheme on my constituency will be When I looked at the plan more widely, it seemed to dreadful and I reject it on a parochial basis. I also me that there were other major shortcomings with it. believe that it is ill thought out and will not achieve High Speed 1 has been a great success, and certainly the most of the things that are sought by people who are in refurbishment of St Pancras station in my constituency—I favour of a high-speed system in this country. think that I was the first person to suggest that St Pancras should be the High Speed 1 terminal—has been a great 10.3 am success. The idea that we shall have just one leg of a high-speed system coming into London but not connected Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Like the right hon. to High Speed 1 seems simply stupid. If we are to have a Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), high-speed rail system that is on the end of the high-speed I will focus on the narrow impact of high-speed rail on system in the rest of Europe, it would not be a bad idea my constituency. I will make the point that development if it was connected to it, which is not the present might not always be good. Rugby sits on the west coast proposition. main line, which has recently received substantial investment 9WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 10WH to focus on the city-to-city times for London to think that the figure was 278%. That must all be worked Birmingham, London to Manchester and London to through. The business case does not include anything Glasgow. A side effect has been a reduction in the about the economic regeneration of the north, the service for towns such as Rugby. The service to the carbon savings from the modal shift from road and air north-west is much less frequent because the city-to-city to rail, or the freeing-up of airport capacity. It is not times have been improved by the trains not stopping at possible not to go ahead with the third runway without intermediate stations. The Rugby rail users group is a project of this kind. campaigning for the reinstatement of those services and sees the development of high-speed rail as an opportunity Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I agree to recover them, because city-to-city traffic might move with the hon. Gentleman that the project will benefit from the west coast main line to HS 2. Yorkshire and the north-east, as it will the north-west. The effects of HS 2 might not be entirely beneficial. Does he agree that when the Y-shaped line is built—as I I will give anecdotal evidence from France. For many hope it will be—both legs should be built at the same years, I travelled to visit friends in Épernay, which is the time to ensure that the benefits that he rightly identifies home of Champagne. Épernay is about the same distance are brought to the north-west and the north-east from Paris as Rugby is from London. In the ’70s and simultaneously so that one region does not suffer at the ’80s, I enjoyed a regular service to Épernay from the expense of the other? main east line out of Paris towards Strasbourg. When one turned up at the Gare de l’Est, there were plenty of David Mowat: I agree that the Y-shaped solution is trains. On making the same journey last summer, I the most sensible one, but I do not want to get into found that there were no trains throughout the day. which part should be built first. I would like to quote a There was one commuter train from Épernay to Paris in few numbers on the transformational impact of the the morning and one from Paris to Épernay in the potential scheme. We are generating, potentially, many evening. The reason was that the new TGV line through tens of thousands of jobs. In January 2010 KPMG eastern France heads towards the bigger city of Reims, published a report which estimated an incremental increase taking all of the traffic from the existing railway line. in employment of between 29,000 and 42,000—not My concern is that towns such as Rugby may suffer directly from constructing or operating the line but due from the introduction of a new high-speed rail line and to the economic and productivity impact on the regions receive a worse service. of much closer links with London. In itself, 40,000 jobs The rail service is critical to the economic development would generate a huge bonus for the Exchequer, but of Rugby.That is recognised by the chamber of commerce. none of that is currently in the business case that is At a recent event, 50 businesses heard the case for being debated. high-speed rail and I understand that many left the A lot—in fact, nearly all—of the comments up till presentation unconvinced and unsatisfied as to its merits. now have been on the environmental issues surrounding There needs to be a good understanding of business so the line. I do not want to minimise their impact, but the that the project delivers benefits for it. Government are the Government of the whole country, I will conclude because many hon. Members want to not just of the south-east of England and London. It is contribute, but I make it clear that the existing rail important that we properly weigh up some of the unpleasant network will be affected by HS 2, and it is important environmental impacts against the greater good. that there is an assessment of the impact on the communities that will be affected. Jo Swinson: I am very much enjoying the hon. Gentleman’s speech. Does he accept that building high- 10.6 am speed rail with a Y shape going as far as the north-west will bring benefits to other parts of the country, including David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I will describe Scotland? Extending high-speed rail to Scotland would the context as I see it for such infrastructure improvements. cut the journey time from four and a half hours to more The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras like two hours. Even as it is being built, it will start to (Frank Dobson) spoke of economic forecasts. I start decrease the journey times because people will be able with the economic figure that the average gross value to change trains part way through, if they wish. added per head in London is about £30,000, whereas in the English regions, it is about £17,000. Such a huge difference does not exist in any other country in Europe. David Mowat: I certainly agree that, in time, the line One way in which that can be fixed is through infrastructure needs to go to Scotland. I have very much bought in to investment. Even now, there is massively more infrastructure the productivity improvements and the step change in investment in London, with 60% more infrastructure how we do business in the country that could be achieved capital spend per head in London than in the regions. with such a line—so, yes, I agree. The high-speed rail project is fundamental to the Going back to the environmental impact, it is obviously regeneration of large parts of the north of England and right that compensation is paid and that we do the right the midlands. thing by the people whose property rights are being We have discussed the business case so I will not impacted. However, that cannot be our pre-eminent spend much time on it, although we could argue more concern. about it. The Department for Transport will have to publish the business case. The net benefit ratio in the Simon Hart (Carmarthen Westand South Pembrokeshire) preliminary publications was 2.7, which is pretty high. (Con): Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the environmental However, that figure includes assumptions about factors impact is about more than landscape? I think he was such as idle time and optimistic passenger projections—I making that point. Environment is about people, communities, 11WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 12WH

[Simon Hart] running the latest generation of high-speed trains. However, I am far from convinced that the detail of the proposed jobs and productivity as much as it is about the landscape route is correct. that we might enjoy through the window of a train or, We run the risk of an enormous and costly error in indeed, of a car. this country if we do not get the details right, which is why I warmly welcome the recent assurance by the David Mowat: I accept that. Indeed, where we have Secretary of State and the Minister that the inquiry into areas of high unemployment, the ability of people who High Speed 2 will examine both the strategic case and live there to enjoy their environment is much less than it the specifics of the proposed route. Frankly, we get one would be otherwise. The Government also have a duty shot at making the project work and, vitally, if it is to to take into account the impact on prosperity and succeed, it must be done on the strongest evidence and employment throughout the country. commanding broad-based support in the country. I want to make a couple of slightly more detailed One strategic argument is that, instead of ploughing points. It is important that whatever we build is linked billions of pounds into constructing a High Speed 2 to Heathrow. Those are probably the Government’s line, the money—smaller amounts even—could be better plans, but it seems to be absolute nonsense to build a used upgrading what are known as the classic rail high-speed rail link to the north and not to link properly routes. I regard that as a false choice. Manchester airport and Heathrow, so as to see some of the traffic from Heathrow move. As any regular user of the west coast main line knows, it is already getting pretty close to capacity, even I am of the view that the line needs to go to Euston after the substantial investment and upgrades in recent and should not stop and link to Crossrail. I am not an years. If anyone doubts that, I invite them to go to expert, but Euston seems to be close to the business Euston station at 7 o’clock on a weekday evening and centres of London, so the impact of achieving that try to board the Manchester train. Virgin has to employ would be substantial. people who are basically crowd-control managers to I would like to see a spur to Warrington and Preston prevent ugly scenes. The line has other pinch points as as soon as possibly, but I realise that the Minister might well. not think that that is her highest priority. With reference to an earlier point, not linking High Steve Baker: Does my hon. Friend agree that ugly Speed 2 with High Speed 1 would be absurd. In my scenes as a result of scarce resources are typical of understanding of the initial business case for High socialism? Speed 1, the reason why we went into St Pancras in the first place was to allow that line, eventually, to go north. Iain Stewart: My hon. Friend tempts me down an We are now building a High Speed 2 line to the north, interesting line of debate but, in the interests of brevity, so it ought to be linked. I will resist that temptation. Finally, it is very important that the Government At the moment, the classic network has pinch points. maintain their commitment to the plan and realise that Yes, certain upgrades could be made—trains could be they are the Government for the entire country, and the lengthened by a couple of coaches, there is room for entire country needs this. one additional train movement in and out of Euston at peak times and the speed on the line could be increased Frank Dobson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? a little. All those things can be done, but they would only buy time. David Mowat: I have finished now, so I will not give The choice, however, is not between doing those way. things and investing in High Speed 2. If we look at the time frame for High Speed 2, there is a gap between the 10.14 am existing capacity and what is needed in current years. I believe we have to do both—upgrade the classic rail Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): It is a routes and plan for the long term with High Speed 2. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. I Simply, the forecast increase in the UK population and warmly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for our increased willingness and desire to travel more and Wycombe (Steve Baker) on securing this important in comfort, mean that the extra capacity is required. debate. I accept the general case that there should be a route I take a strong interest in the issue at two levels: from London to Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and strategically, as a member of the Select Committee on cities in the north of England and in Scotland. However, Transport and because High Speed 2 is a key component it is important that the business case is rigorously in the debate on our national transport infrastructure; tested. From a common-sense layman’s perspective, we and locally. Although the proposed route does not go need to challenge why certain aspects of the current through my constituency in Milton Keynes, it runs HS 2 case seem to be omitted or rejected. Time constraints close by, just a couple of miles from my western border, prohibit me from going into those in detail, but let me which is close enough for me to have a say in the debate flag up one or two of the issues, which other Members in a local context and to understand the justifiable have raised. concerns of many villagers along the proposed route. Why does High Speed 2 not connect with HS1? It is I will put my cards on the table right at the start. crazy not to connect them, in my view. I had a meeting From all the evidence that I have seen, there is a strong with the chief executive of Crossrail recently, and I case for an additional north-south strategic rail route in asked him, “Has anyone considered using Crossrail as a the United Kingdom and for that route to be capable of link between High Speed 1 and High Speed 2?” He said, 13WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 14WH

“You’re the first person who’s ever proposed that to there is no either/or choice between high-speed rail and me.” Such a link may not be the answer, but it is surely the conventional railway network. The Government the sort of issue that we should look at as we consider a have done extraordinarily well to protect almost the multi billion pound scheme over many years. Has High totality of the £14 billion of planned investment in Speed 2 been considered in the context of broader UK the rest of the rail network during the battles over the aviation policy? Should we not look at connecting comprehensive spending review. With the possible exception Birmingham airport, Heathrow and other airports in of my beloved redoubling of the Swindon to Kemble the midlands and the south as part of our total transport line, no rail project has been abandoned as a result of policy? the CSR or the commitment to high-speed rail. The Why are we not looking more at intermediate stops hon. Gentleman should be reassured by that. along the line? I have enormous sympathy for the point The bigger picture is the UK’s ability to meet its made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe, long-term carbon emission targets, but we need more who said that Buckinghamshire would have all the pain robust data. Some quite high numbers are being talked but none of the gain because there would be no access about, and we have heard about 23 million tonnes of point along the route. The French TGV system has carbon being saved over 60 years. However, there is a intermediate stops at different points. This summer, I question mark over some of the numbers, given that travelled on the line down to the Mediterranean, and about 77% of the journeys quoted by High Speed 2 Ltd there is a stop at Valence. It is constructed in such a way apparently increase carbon emissions, as 50% of passengers that it does not impede the fast trains that shoot through, shift from less energy-intensive railway journeys to high- but it gives access to many towns and cities in that part speed rail and another 27% make new journeys. Of of France. If I may, I would like to put in an early bid course, that probably underestimates the impact on the for an Iain Stewart international gateway station to conventional rail network, given that other people might serve Milton Keynes and the surrounding areas. take up the capacity that is freed up there and we might There are justifiable environmental concerns, but I see a parallel modal shift from car journeys to conventional urge those who are concerned about the environmental rail journeys. impacts to look closely at other high-speed lines around The figures also underestimate the impact of the the world. The use of proper cuttings and natural long-term plan, which brings me to my first question. cuttings can minimise a lot of the noise and visual What is the Government’s latest thinking on the long-term damage. commitment to connections to Scotland and the north-east? I want now to make a more strategic point. Everyone I might even add Wales and the west. There is clear who objects to rail schemes believes that they will be evidence that there will be a profound impact on aviation ugly and unsightly, but they need not be. This country over those longer distances—they are longer than the has a proud tradition of building infrastructure projects— initial London to Birmingham stretch. A company particularly rail infrastructure projects—that enhance called Travelport, which owns two of the four back-office the environment. The Forth bridge, the Ribblehead systems that support airline and high-speed rail bookings viaduct and Brunel’s bridges and tunnels are things of around the world, has suggested to me that in the first beauty, and, done properly, the projects that we are month after the introduction of a high-speed rail link talking about could actually enhance the countryside. I over such a distance, one third of the air travel on the do not want to create some ghastly, ugly concrete jungle, same route vanishes, and that aviation drops by two but for goodness’ sake, if we are going to make High thirds within three months. If that is true when we Speed2anational project, let us use it to showcase what eventually have longer high-speed rail links in this country, we can do. I have mentioned examples of older it will have a profound impact on our carbon emissions. infrastructure projects, but we could look at modern ones, such as the Millau viaduct in France, which enhances Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Does my hon. the environment. Friend accept that air traffic north to south is already It is absolutely right that we consider the strategic falling, so we should not expect a massive decline in air case to make sure that the numbers stack up. Equally, travel as a result of building High Speed 2? everyone along the route must have their say as to why the line should or should not go through a particular Martin Horwood: I am not sure that that is right. I locale. However, let us do things with a positive attitude. must confess past sins. I used to work for a marketing We need High Speed 2 in this country and we get one agency that had clients in Scotland and I am afraid that shot at it. When we have the inquiry, which I strongly I regularly took the team on a flight up to Edinburgh. I welcome, let us undertake it with a positive attitude. am now very guilty about that, and it was probably very carbon-inefficient, but the truth is that high-speed rail could have a massive impact on such business journeys, 10.23 am on recreational travel and on other connections between Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): It is a pleasure Scotland and London. All the evidence from other to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. I congratulate parts of the world is that that impact is quite consistent. the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) on securing Turning now to my questions, I want to ask first the debate. He has put a strong case on behalf of his about the status of the Heathrow interchange in the constituents, and it was also interesting, given his ideology Government’s plans. If one is trying to reduce carbon of free market deregulation. emissions, it seems illogical to make sure that people I want to make a couple of points before asking a few can get to airports even more efficiently, so I do not see questions. The coalition agreement was absolutely right the Heathrow interchange as particularly important. to commit to high-speed rail, which is a potentially The fact that it is being retained even as a long-term incredibly important and transformational project. However, objective or possibility might militate against the option 15WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 16WH

[Martin Horwood] through their back gardens and therefore do not realise how devastating it is going to be to communities and pointed out by the right hon. Member for Holborn and families. St Pancras (Frank Dobson), who spoke of the logic of a The route will have a potentially devastating impact connection between High Speed 1 and High Speed 2. on my constituency of North Warwickshire. We face Secondly, I would urge sensitivity to local issues. the prospect that the line as it runs in to Birmingham Caroline Pidgeon on the London assembly has raised from the main line will branch off in my constituency, the issue of houses in London that might be only a causing a huge amount of devastation to the villages of couple of metres above the tunnel when it is eventually Gilson and Water Orton. The main line will continue built. Even though those houses are built on London further north, causing severe impact on the town of clay and often do not have deep foundations, the Coleshill and the village of Middleton. Potentially even householders do not appear to have access to the hardship more worrying, if the Y-shaped route happens, we fund. I would welcome the Minister’s latest thoughts on might end up with the junction in my constituency, that. probably tripling the amount of blight and devastation Finally, there is the issue of planning. I have long in North Warwickshire. We do not know exactly where been an advocate of a democratic planning system. I the Y-shaped junction is going to be, but there is a great have made the case for such a system to people who deal of concern throughout my constituency. If the propose nuclear power stations and, for consistency, Y-shaped junction does end up in my constituency, it even to my friends in the wind energy industry. However, will probably be the single most affected in the country it is a bit more difficult to take a site-by-site approach as a result of the route. with a long railway route; we cannot just take out Berkshire and expect there to be no impact on the rest Christopher Pincher: Does my hon. Friend not agree of the network. that we need to know as quickly as possible where the In that respect, I commend to hon. Members and Y-shaped route is going to diverge, so that residents in Ministers the words of the Campaign to Protect Rural our part of the world—I represent Tamworth, just up England, which has taken an enlightened approach to the road from North Warwickshire—can begin to make this issue. It points out that High Speed 1 runs through dispositions as they see fit? the Kent downs area of outstanding natural beauty, adding: Dan Byles: I entirely agree and thank my hon. Friend. “Noise from trains is barely noticeable compared to the background He and I have neighbouring constituencies and we are noise of traffic, while earth mounds and wooden barriers help working closely together on this. We are watching closely, conceal the line itself…No stations are proposed for HS2 between because if the Y-shaped junction is not in my constituency, London and Birmingham, so like the Central Railway proposal it would not offer local benefits. HS2’s trains are likely to whoosh it is likely to be in or close to his. People need to know past in seconds unlike noisy diesel freight trains proposed to about this issue. Knowing one is going to be devastated trundle along the Central Railway, so the noise impacts should be by something is one thing; believing one might be but less but this still would mean ‘something for nothing’ for the not knowing is even worse. There are people on a route communities it would pass through.” that appeared briefly on one map—with a dotted line The “something for nothing” argument is important. that disappeared from subsequent maps—who were The CPRE suggests that a number of benefits could be effectively blighted, but who were unable to take part in built into the long-term scheme. It says that “Electricity the exceptional hardship scheme or any other compensation pylons” could scheme. They are blighted through uncertainty, not through an actual line on a map. It is important that “run along much of the route including in the Chilterns AONB and these could be undergrounded next to the track…Low noise that topic be addressed as quickly as possible. surfaces could be installed on local roads to improve tranquillity…New However, I am going to be brief so that someone else and improved Rights of Way and Open Access Land could can say a few words. I want to make two pleas to the improve outdoor opportunities around the path of the route”. Minister. The first concerns the exceptional hardship It makes many other suggestions for improvements that scheme. I ask her to look in detail at what has happened would benefit people along the route as this important so far—at those who have been approved and those project is put in place. There may be environmental who have not—and satisfy herself that the current consequences—there is no escaping that—but the bigger scheme is transparent and working properly. I have had picture is important. As I said at the beginning, this constituents refused under the scheme, and who were could be a transformational project, very important for given reasons that were not listed as factors on any our long-term goal of reducing carbon emissions, and previous document or in the frequently asked questions one I strongly support from the Liberal Democrat relating to the scheme. That suggests that the scheme is benches. not transparent and that to a large degree, the panel is making it up as it goes along. It is fundamentally wrong for people, having looked at the published documentation 10.30 am and believed that they ticked all the boxes, to then be turned down on criteria they did not even know were to Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): As we do be considered. not have much time, I will be brief. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) on securing this important debate on a topic that is causing Steve Baker: Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a a great deal of concern up and down the route. We need rule-of-law point, as classically understood? People should to ensure that it causes more concern in the rest of the know well in advance what the rules are—fixed, well-known country, where people do not have the route coming rules that affect their property. 17WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 18WH

Dan Byles: I entirely agree that it is a rule-of-law even exceeds, the beauty of Buckinghamshire. We live in issue, and it is also a moral point. People understand an area that is rich in a history of industry, and more that Governments need to make difficult decisions such recently banking and financial services, as well as still as this, but they have to make them within a framework being a major employer in manufacturing and distribution, that is open, transparent and understandable. If it looks with over 26% of our employees working in manufacturing. as though decisions are being made in a murky way, Imagine what economic benefits High Speed 2 would that completely undermines what the Government are bring to those employees and manufacturers. Many of trying to do. By definition, people applying under the the 6,000 employees at the headquarters of Lloyds TSB exceptional hardship scheme are going through a difficult and Halifax live in the Calder Valley, making our economy time. I urge the Minister to look at how it is working one of the most at-risk areas in Britain if we see a and to point out to the panel that it is not there to be a further slide in the banking and financial services industry. hard-nosed gatekeeper, but to implement a clear and I recently went to Paris on Eurostar from London. As transparent process in a neutral and even-handed way. we know, that line is Britain’s first high-speed rail link. It is incredibly useful to the economy of the south-east Christopher Pincher: Of course, there are many people of England but not to Yorkshire’s, given that people can who qualify for the exceptional hardship scheme but get a train and arrive at two different foreign capitals to whose homes are blighted by the prospect of the railway, do business more quickly than they can get a train in and by its actualité if it is built. Does he not think that London and arrive in my constituency to do business. the cost of that extra blight—which means that homes Pundits have spoken about the north-south divide in cannot be sold, so stamp duty is forgone by the Treasury, this country for many years. May I suggest that High as is the spending power of the people who cannot sell Speed 1 to Paris has created not only a greater north-south their homes or who sell at a lower price—should be divide, but also pushed the divide even further south? factored in to the business case? High Speed 2 would shorten that divide for Yorkshire. The Calder Valley has a huge diversity of business. Dan Byles: I entirely agree. Getting the compensation right is every bit as important as getting the details of Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ the route right. In many ways, it would be far cheaper. Co-op): I apologise for missing the earlier part of the The sort of figures we are talking about for compensating debate; I was at another meeting. High Speed 2 will people are dwarfed by the sums involved in building the indeed provide benefits to Yorkshire. Does the hon. railway scheme. I urge the Minister, do not be cheap Gentleman agree that those benefits will also extend in when it comes to compensation. If we have to do this due course further north—for example, to Edinburgh and blight people’s lives, compensate them adequately. where my constituency is located, and to other places in That is really important. the north of England and Scotland? My final plea to the Minister is, will she please bash some heads together at HS 2 Ltd and tell it to stop Craig Whittaker: Without question, I agree with the refusing requests from local councils to come and brief hon. Gentleman. Indeed, let us get the first leg of the officers and members? The chief executive of the council line into Yorkshire first. in my constituency, North Warwickshire borough council, As I said, the Calder Valley has a huge diversity of has just written an uncharacteristically strongly worded businesses—ranging from sole traders all the way up to letter to HS 2 Ltd expressing his deep disappointment some fantastic, world-leading businesses at the cutting that before the general election, it had agreed to come edge—that contribute a gross value added average of and brief officers and members, but said running into £3.3 billion to our country. Our employees have the the election that it was then in purdah and could not do highest productivity rates in west Yorkshire and are it. It is now a long time since the general election and it among the highest in Britain, at £43,700 GVA per is still refusing to brief the council. Local borough and employee. Why should we not have access to our capital county councils need to understand what is happening and other major cities at speeds equivalent to, or even in their areas. The do not and they are not getting the better than, those available to the French or the Belgians? help they need from HS 2 Ltd. It might be a little over-dominated by engineers; it needs some people who We in Yorkshire do not advocate reducing access to can explain, communicate and listen. our cities by foreign business with High Speed 1; we merely ask for a level playing field so that we can Those are my two pleas to the Minister. Will she compete and play our part in our country’s economic please look at the exceptional hardship scheme and growth. High Speed 2 will give Yorkshire just that—a compensation, and satisfy herself on those matters, level playing field, so that we can grow and continue to because I do not think the system is working fairly? be the beating heart of England well into the next Secondly, please tell HS 2 Ltd to engage more, particularly century. It is a place that we have earned, and deserve to with local borough and county councils. have. Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): I call Craig Whittaker, I thank the Government for consulting on the Y-shaped but remind him that I wish to start the wind-ups by model for HS 2. I give the Minister the guarantee that 10.40 am. we Yorkshire MPs will do all we can to ensure that it happens. 10.37 am 10.40 am Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): Thank you, Mr Weir. As people know, I represent the wonderful Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): It is and beautiful constituency of the Calder Valley in west good to see you in the Chair, Mr Weir. I am pleased to Yorkshire. Many would say, of course, that it rivals, or be able to contribute to this important debate. I congratulate 19WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 20WH

[Andrew Gwynne] and stations would make possible a far greater length of train, and because high-speed trains would be segregated the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) on securing from other passenger and freight services. the debate. I was glad to have the opportunity to listen It is worth bearing it in mind that upgrading existing to the views, opinions and concerns of right hon. and rail lines would yield much less capacity than a high-speed hon. Members. line and at greater cost in both money and disruption, The Labour Government brought forward the original but without most of the journey time savings. That is idea for High Speed 2, and I welcome the fact that the something that we saw with the recent £9 billion upgrade coalition Government will continue with that project of the west coast main line; although the benefits were through the next stages. However, I note from reports in considerable, they were essentially incremental, coming The Daily Telegraph over the weekend that high-speed after years of chronic disruption to passengers and rail is causing the Conservative part of the coalition businesses. some local difficulty, with at least three Ministers being publically opposed—including, if reports are correct, a Journey time savings from high-speed rail will be Cabinet Minister. Indeed, the paper quoted the Secretary significant. The journey time from London to the west of State for Wales as saying: midlands would be reduced to between 30 and 50 minutes, depending on the stations used. Manchester could be “I would defy the party whip—be very, very sure of that.” brought within approximately an hour of London, down We will have to see whether Cabinet Ministers are from almost 2 hours and 10 minutes. Through-services willing to vote against the Government on this issue. from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London would be None the less, the Minister who is here today obviously down to just three and a half hours. enjoys the support of the hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat), who made a valid case for the The connectivity gains of high-speed rail will come economy of the north-west of England—as a north-west not only from faster trains but from the new route MP, I certainly agree with much of what he said—and alignments that comprise the proposed Y-shaped network she has the in-principle support of the hon. Members of lines from London to Birmingham, and eventually for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) and for Calder north to Manchester and Leeds. Valley (Craig Whittaker). A project of this size and scale will, of course, will Mark Lazarowicz: Will my hon. Friend confirm that not be without controversy. Without doubt, good travel the Labour party’s ultimate objective is that the high-speed links between Britain’s major cities are central to our line should go directly to Scotland, and that we should economy.We need a transport system that is high-capacity, not rely on existing services for part of the line? Obviously, efficient and sustainable. things cannot be done at the same time everywhere in the UK, but will he confirm that that is Labour’s Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Does objective? my hon. Friend agree that, in developing the eastern part of the Y, it is important that core cities such as Nottingham are included, so that they too can reap the Andrew Gwynne: When Labour was in Government it benefits not only of faster routes to London but of was always envisaged that the high-speed lines would better connectivity to Yorkshire and Birmingham? eventually connect with Scotland. In the long term, that will be crucial to the economies of Scotland and the Andrew Gwynne: When we go into the details of what English regions. is proposed, we certainly need to ensure that connectivity The new network would overcome some of the with the English regions—the hon. Lady makes a powerful limitations of the old network, which has three separate case for the city of Nottingham—are included. and poorly interconnected main lines, each with own its As the economy grows, people will travel for employment London terminus. An important factor is that the high- and leisure, and there will be more demand to move speed network would enable key local, national and freight, something that is not sufficiently considered in international networks to be better integrated. In particular, relation to rail. The Labour Government rightly believed including an interchange station with the new Crossrail that improved transport capacity would be needed between line just west of Paddington on the approach of the our major cities from the 2020s, starting with the route high-speed line to central London would greatly enhance from London to the west midlands, two of Britain’s the benefits of both Crossrail and the high-speed line. A largest conurbations. Projections show that by then the Crossrail interchange station could deliver a fast and west coast main line will be at capacity. By 2033, the frequent service to London’s west end, the City and average long-distance west coast main line train is projected docklands. The total journey time from central Birmingham to be 80% full, and severe overcrowding will be routine to Canary Wharf could be just 70 minutes. for much of the time. There will also be a significant increase in traffic and congestion on the motorways A boost to the west midlands economy is anticipated between and around London, Birmingham and to the tune of £5.3 billion a year, and to that of the Manchester, far beyond the problems experienced at north-west of £10.6 billion a year at today’s rates. these locations today. The Labour Government’s view was that high-speed Christopher Pincher: The hon. Gentleman said that rail would be one way to provide more capacity between there would be a benefit to the west midlands. Is he the UK’s main conurbations in the long term. The extra aware that I asked a parliamentary question of the boost provided by a high-speed line would substantially Department for Transport in order to ascertain what increase existing rail capacity. That would happen not the benefits would be to Staffordshire? The Department only as a result of the new track but because the track responded that it had made no such analysis. 21WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 22WH

Andrew Gwynne: I was referring to the west midlands time scales do the Government have to introduce provisions metropolitan area, but I am not responsible for the for owners of properties nearby the planned route that replies given by the Department for Transport. may not necessarily be directly affected by the construction? Finally, can the Minister tell me how many applications David Mowat: On that point, the figure cited by the have been received so far for the exceptional hardship hon. Gentleman of just over £5 billion came from the scheme? West Midlands chamber of commerce. The figure was generated in the region, and one would imagine that it is The Labour Government proposed the high-speed most unlikely that some of the money did not come rail that would link London to Birmingham and eventually from Staffordshire. to Manchester, Leeds and beyond, which is the widely backed “Y”-shaped network. I welcome the fact that Andrew Gwynne: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman the coalition Government, after a few wobbles, have for clarifying that point. come out and supported that network instead of their If, in time, an extension of the network to Scotland unworkable “S”- shape. That was perhaps not so much was to proceed, there would be a benefit of nearly a U-turn as a “Y-turn”, although my right hon. Friend £20 billion to its economy. HS 2 believes that the the Member for Holborn and St Pancras has now benefits of high-speed rail far outweigh the estimated thrown an “H”-shape into the mix. costs, with the project yielding more than £2 of benefit I turn now to some specific issues. What consideration for every £1 of cost. will be given to ensuring that the high-speed rail network There are clearly several arguments in favour of high- is available to rail freight, which is an increasingly speed rail. It is a possible solution to the expected important part of the railway jigsaw? Does the Minister increase in passenger numbers, it will undoubtedly slash plan to have further talks with the Scottish Executive journey times and it could allow a much better integration about possible network extension to Scotland in due of existing rail services regionally, nationally and course? Will she outline the time scale that the Government internationally. However, we have to take on board the envisage for commencing construction of the first part fact that not everyone is in favour of high-speed rail. I of the network? Has her Department begun work on accept that, as the hon. Members for Wycombe and for preparing the hybrid Bill that would have to be presented North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) said, some communities to Parliament to make the new network a reality in this will be impacted through the construction and operation Parliament? of high-speed rail. The Labour Government were mindful The high-speed rail project could be of national of the fact that, in making proposals for a route, there strategic significance to this country, and I hope that we has to be an attempt to minimise local impacts while will be able to work across the House to secure a rail achieving the wider objectives. link that is worthy of a great country in the 21st century. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there would be 10.51 am merit in considering ways to give benefits to those The Minister of State, Department for Transport communities impacted by the track—for example, by (Mrs Theresa Villiers): In the brief time that I have having spurs off the new tracks that offered interim available, I will try to run through the points made by stops on occasion? right hon. and hon. Members, and I will write to them about any points that time prevents me from covering Andrew Gwynne: That might be one solution to such now. concerns. We need to ensure that people are fully consulted on I am very grateful to have support for high-speed rail changes that could affect their areas, and not only on from across the House, across parties and across the the Chilterns or Buckinghamshire but, as my right hon. country. That support is very welcome. There was a Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank particularly vocal presence in the debate today from Dobson) said, on Euston and Primrose Hill. Indeed, my Yorkshire, which was particularly welcome. right hon. Friend made some powerful points. However, we recognise that it is vitally important to The coalition Government must have meaningful, think with great care about the local environmental extensive and detailed consultation, particularly with impact of the project. Of course, we had some very the local communities affected, and they must be keen comprehensive accounts of the potential impact, first to listen and to balance the concerns of those communities, from my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve many of which we have heard about today in this Baker) and then from my hon. Friend the Member for debate. No route in a project of this significance will be North Warwickshire (Dan Byles). It is important that without controversy, which is why there absolutely must they are here in Westminster Hall and able to put their be adequate consultation of the affected communities, constituents’ point of view. together with consultation on the exceptional hardship I strongly believe that careful mitigation measures scheme for those whose properties may be affected by can eliminate the most intrusive local impacts of high-speed proximity to the preferred route. rail. Modern engineering techniques give us an expanding May I ask the Minister how detailed the consultation range of ways to use sensitive design to make transport process about the plan for the new route will be? Will it infrastructure easier to live with and less intrusive; a give us a detailed account of the streets, properties and number of Members have referred to the example of landholdings that will be directly affected by the planning High Speed 1, where that mitigation work has been process? Significant time will be needed to ensure that done with some success in many areas. consultation is properly conducted and considered. I I believe that it is possible to find a solution that is welcome the proposed exceptional hardship scheme for balanced and fair; that generates the significant economic those whose properties may be directly affected. What benefits of high-speed rail for the country as a whole, 23WH High Speed 223 NOVEMBER 2010 High Speed 2 24WH

[Mrs Theresa Villiers] to go to Euston on a Friday night to see how popular the railways have become. There is simply no realistic and that is fair to the local communities that are directly alternative that would give us the level of benefit that affected by whatever line of route is ultimately chosen. high-speed rail will generate. Hopefully, this debate will take us closer to finding a solution and choosing that route. Andrea Leadsom: Does my right hon. Friend the We intend the consultation to be inclusive, wide-ranging Minister accept, however, that greater consideration and comprehensive, providing a range of opportunities should be given to using an existing transport corridor for Members and their constituents to go through these rather than tearing through great swathes of English kinds of concerns about the impact on landscapes and countryside? communities. Our consultation is designed to run for about five months, which is longer than the statutory Mrs Villiers: It is always the case that, when efforts minimum. We take this process very seriously, because are made to construct these major transport projects, we know the gravity of the concern that is felt in some there are advantages to using existing transport corridors. communities. However, sometimes using those existing corridors is simply not possible. Nevertheless, the Secretary of State The business case for high-speed rail was discussed for Transport asked High Speed 2 to look again at the by a number of Members. We are absolutely confident route that it had proposed and at the environmental about the very significant benefits that a line from impact of that route. In a very short time, we will London to Birmingham would generate and we believe publish a package for consultation that will take on that those economic benefits are even more significant board a number of the concerns that have already been when they are linked to a “Y”-shaped high-speed rail raised with the Government and with HS 2, to mitigate network that connects the capital with Birmingham, the environmental impact of the project. Manchester and Leeds. I want to go back to the points that were made about I welcome the comments of my hon. Friends the using upgrades to the conventional rail network to Members for Warrington South (David Mowat) and for relieve the capacity problem. It is simply not possible to Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker) about the importance relieve the capacity problem without a new line. Without of using transport infrastructure to try to remedy delivering a further significant uplift in rail capacity, imbalances between economic prosperity in different some of our key transport corridors will become even parts of the country. There is strong local support in more overcrowded in the years to come. I strongly much of the country for high-speed rail. believe that high-speed rail is the best way to deliver In answer to the questions from a number of Members that new capacity, not least because it would free up about Scotland, as the hon. Member for Denton and space on existing networks for more commuter, regional Reddish (Andrew Gwynne)—the shadow Rail Minister— and freight services. My hon. Friend the Member for has already pointed out, the “Y”-shaped network to Rugby (Mark Pawsey) mentioned that issue and I think deliver high-speed rail to Manchester and Leeds could that there is potential for his constituents to benefit enable us to deliver journey times to London from from the extra space on the west coast main line that Edinburgh and Glasgow of about three and a half will be released by high-speed rail. Dramatically improving hours. There is also the issue of promoting the air-to-rail connectivity between a number of our most important switch, which is so important to the hon. Member for cities has the potential to change the economic geography Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). In due course, we certainly of the country. want to see a genuinely national network built, and that As for the environmental impact, I recognise that our is why we are in regular dialogue with the Scottish plans for high-speed rail are already having an impact Government. We are happy to work with them on on some communities, even in advance of the final establishing how we bring that network about in the decisions on the project. That is why we have launched future. an exceptional hardship scheme, to assist those with an A number of Members have talked about the carbon urgent need to sell their properties and move home. impact of high-speed rail. I believe that high-speed rail The Secretary of State has made it clear that, as and can play an important role in our plans to develop a when any final route is chosen, we will put measures in low-carbon economy, particularly by promoting the place to address blight, and those measures will go well air-to-rail switch that a number of Members referred to. beyond the requirements of statute. I say that in response Even with our current energy generation mix, high-speed to a number of points that were made about the exceptional rail is a much lower-carbon option than flying. hardship scheme. My hon. Friend the Member for My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe argued North Warwickshire had some concerns about how the that the Government had overstated the expected increase scheme was working. I was not aware that there were in demand. He and a number of other Members sought those difficulties, so if he wants to write to me about the to challenge the business case. However, there is no specific issues I will be happy to look into them. doubt that the benefits generated by the extension of Earlier this year, the Secretary of State visited the line high-speed rail to Birmingham will exceed the cost of of route that has been recommended by HS 2 Ltd. He building the line. acknowledges the vital importance of designing a new Furthermore, it is clear that there is already a significant high-speed rail line in a way that will reduce local crowding problem on our railways. The simple fact is impact where possible and that will take on board the that we need this new railway. Important parts of our types of points that we have heard this morning. rail network are already suffering from serious overcrowding We fully recognise the need to balance the benefits of problems. As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton the high-speed rail project with the local impact on Keynes South (Iain Stewart) mentioned, one only needs landscape and communities. In the summer, the Secretary 25WH High Speed 2 23 NOVEMBER 2010 26WH of State instructed HS 2 to consider how best to improve Youth Service its recommended route 3 to reduce any negative social and environmental impacts. An initial report has already been published that identifies a number of ways to 11 am reduce problems on the northern part of HS 2’s preferred Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Weir. route. That work is continuing in relation to a number It is with great pride, but also with sadness, that I open of other areas of sensitivity— my first debate in Westminster Hall. I have a vested interest in this debate, in that I have spent almost all my Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): Order. I am afraid that working life as a youth and community worker, and we have run out of time for this debate. We now move Unite supported me in my election campaign. I am on to the next debate. passionate about the sector. I have many important questions for the Minister, who I hope will address them all in his response. I am proud to have been a full-time youth worker for many years in Nottingham, St Helens and Wigan. I loved my work, and I believe that my colleagues and I, who worked in a local authority-based youth service in partnership with voluntary organisations, made a difference to young people’s lives. Like all youth workers, we had a purely voluntary relationship with young people. They were not forced to come to our projects. The fact that they chose to relate to us without compulsion laid the basis for trusting relationships that enabled us to assist their informal learning and personal and social development. That is what youth work is. Youthworkers are young people’s freely chosen and trusted adult supporters. They educate young people informally, support them, help amplify their voices and, critically, take their side when no one else does. It is part of society’s commitment to lifelong learning. As official Government statements, academic reports and professional bodies recognise, youth workers enable young people to develop holistically, working with them to help them develop their voice, influence and place in society and reach their full potential. Youth workers recognise, respect and actively respond to the wider network of peers, communities, families and cultures that are important to young people, and seek through those networks to help young people achieve stronger relationships and collective identity by promoting inclusivity and equality. Youth workers have long been experts in creating what is now called the big society. According to the Audit Commission, every £1 invested in youth work generates £8 worth of voluntary activity. Youth workers are trained to recruit and involve volunteers and to sustain their involvement. Some 500,000 volunteers work with established youth services, but volunteers do not come from thin air. They need to be encouraged and supported by professionally trained staff and, to be effective and happy, they need to volunteer in an organised environment. Youthand community work training equips practitioners to empower adults and young people in their communities. In addition, youth workers are trained to raise funds to support their work. The state has never been the main provider in the sector. The last National Youth Agency audit of services showed that youth workers generated more than one third of the amount spent by local authorities on their youth services. I hope that the Minister will take careful note of the fact that cuts to local authority youth services also mean severe cuts to the voluntary sector and to the social enterprise and mutual organisations that provide youth services. For example, the current proposals to cut £2.6 million from Birmingham city council’s youth service mean about a 27WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 28WH

[Julie Hilling] service? The British Youth Council and the UK Youth Parliament, the recognised national bodies for young £600,000 cut to the voluntary sector. He will no doubt people, have formed similar campaigns and expressed be aware that the £2 million in cuts to the youth service concerns about rapidly deteriorating provision for the in his county will practically wipe out voluntary sector youth service. My hon. Friend the Member for funding as well. It is a fallacy to suggest that the Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom voluntary sector can pick up the pieces left by a shattered Blenkinsop) has also introduced early-day motion 1013 local authority service. on the threat to youth services. On funding, incidentally, Lord Northbourne obtained We need action now. Is the Minister aware that local an undertaking during the passage of the Education councils value highly their ability to provide youth work and Inspections Act 2006 that the Government would directly, and are so concerned about the cuts, at least in continue to collect youth service funding figures from England, that the Local Government Association recently local authorities. Will the Minister publish the figures published an excellent document, “Valuing YouthWork”? for last year and tell me how they will be collected in I am pleased to read in the foreword his quote that work future? The National Youth Agency used to do an with young people is not a “luxury add-on”. Has he annual audit of youth work, but I have been informed read the powerful analysis of the cost-effectiveness of that now that its funding has been slashed, it will no youth work by Unite and Lifelong Learning UK called longer be able to do so. I am also informed that Ofsted “The Benefits of YouthWork”? If he has not considered will no longer inspect youth work. Who will inspect it to those documents, I urge him to do so as a matter of ensure that standards are upheld? urgency. I am proud to be introducing this debate almost exactly 50 years after Lady Albemarle produced her Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Does great report for the Conservative Government of the my hon. Friend agree that cutting the youth service is time. Her report introduced the modern youth service. incredibly short-sighted? Not only does the service give In the 1950s, the early youth service had nearly disappeared young people the opportunity to enrich their lives by as a result of cuts and general neglect. The voluntary taking part in interesting activities but it often prevents sector and the early trade unionists who built the them from being drawn into antisocial behaviour or Community and Youth Workers’ Union, of which I am drug and alcohol use. proud to have been president for nine years, campaigned hard for the Government to provide public resources Julie Hilling: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. and promote respect for youth work. Yes, absolutely. I will talk more later about some of the Lady Albemarle was asked to establish a committee studies that have shown that. If we destroy the infrastructure, in 1958 to consider those concerns. After two years of it will take a long time and a lot of money to rebuild, as intense scrutiny, the committee recommended that specialist happened in Wigan in the 1990s when all the youth training for youth workers be developed, as it was a centres were closed. Wigan has not been able to regain distinct educational profession. She and her committee the ground lost during that time. recommended that youth centres be built throughout the country to provide places of warmth, free association, Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): I congratulate safety and fun, that national terms and conditions for the hon. Lady on securing this important debate, but I youth workers and qualifications linked to those terms remind her that the Labour Government planned to and conditions be introduced and that each local authority make 20% cuts. Does she feel that no cuts should have be funded to work in partnership with the voluntary taken place in the youth service? Can she inform all sector to manage a youth service. The Conservative those present where she would make the cuts? Government agreed with the recommendations of Lady Albemarle’s committee and laid a substantial foundation Julie Hilling: I am not in the Government or even in for the building of the modern youth service. A new the shadow Government, so I am not in a position to public service depending largely on public investment say where cuts should be made. However, making was born. substantial cuts to a small pot of money—some Since that time, great progress has been achieved. In £300 million is spent on the whole youth service throughout fact, Britain’s youth service—with its public funding England and Wales, which is a very small pot of money and partnership with voluntary organisations, national nationally—does huge damage to the services provided. professional standards and joint negotiating committee It is with sadness that I report that Warwickshire terms and conditions—has been admired throughout county council is proposing to abandon its youth service the world. It has pioneered many important developments all together, and it appears that Norfolk, Suffolk and in working with young people, including international Southampton city councils are planning to do the same. exchanges between young people to help heal a war-torn According to a recent survey of proposed cuts that was Europe. conducted prior to the comprehensive spending review My sadness in presenting this debate comes from the by the National Youth Agency and the Confederation recognition that those 50 years of progress could now of Heads of Young People’s Services, 95% of services come to an end. The youth service is likely to disappear were predicting cuts during the current year, the majority shortly unless the Minister acts. Is he aware that the of which would be in the region of more than 30%. situation of the youth service is now so grave that the Bolton council has already had to cut £200,000 this main professional journal in the field, Children & Young year and is predicting a cut of £415,000 next year. Am I People Now, has organised a national campaign called right to assume that the Minister is concerned about a “For Youth’s Sake”, and the main professional bodies cut of £2 million to West Sussex county council youth and stakeholders have formed a campaign to save the service, which covers his constituency? Does he support 29WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 30WH the thousands of young people across West Sussex who statement that recognises high-quality youth work. The have been petitioning and campaigning against the Government’s view is that high-quality youth work cuts? The portfolio holder for the area, Councillor Peter delivered by third and statutory sectors is central to Bradbury, admitted that young people had not been delivering our ambition of increasing the number of properly consulted. Again, is the Minister aware that young people on the path to success. Is the Minister consultation with young people on service provision is concerned about the ability of local authorities to fundamental to the Education and Inspections Act 2006? fulfil their statutory responsibilities? If they do not There is an illusion that mutuals, social enterprises or fulfil their statutory responsibilities, will he intervene even the private sector will take up youth work provision. under sections 496, 497 or 497A of the Education Although there are some excellent voluntary sector Act 1996? projects, there is little evidence that many providers are Would it not be helpful to revisit the recommendations ready to take on the role of providing youth services. In of the “Resourcing Excellent YouthServices” document? any case, they are dependent on adequate public funding Instead of aiming low for young people, as the Government for the work. The staffing and resources of some services appear to be doing, would it not be better to return to are already so depleted that even a small cut of 10% will the recommendations of the “Aiming High for Young effectively end their ability to function meaningfully. People” document? Does the Minister recognise that 70% of funding for the voluntary sector, particularly for Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): I congratulate my youth services, comes from local authorities, and that hon. Friend on securing the debate. In my constituency, decreasing that funding reduces the potential of what Bramley and Rodley Community Action Trust provides he might term big society organisations? a youth bank in the area. The trust also runs a youth inclusion programme, which helps people who are at Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): Does my risk of becoming involved in the criminal justice system. hon. Friend agree that the big problem with the big Does she agree that cuts to Leeds city council of 27% will society is that it is predicated on the belief that volunteers mean that those services are at risk and that, as a result, will do for free what paid youth workers do for a wage? we risk building up future problems of antisocial behaviour Does she agree that the big society is something of a and criminal activity? With just a bit of funding, we political convenience, given the huge cuts that will be could ensure that such organisations were able to continue made to local authorities during the next three years? providing those excellent services. The situation will be incredibly difficult for those voluntary and community groups that are providing excellent Julie Hilling: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. activities and outreach work—street-based youth work—for I absolutely agree that it is a false economy to make young people? It will be very hard for them— such cuts to youth services. Historical evidence shows that youth services will be harder hit than other services. Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): Order. I remind the Local authorities will have to protect some of the hon. Lady that interventions must be brief. services relating to safeguarding issues and the care provision for older people. However, youth services Heidi Alexander: I apologise. always get squeezed. They have always been Cinderella services and will have greater cuts imposed on them Julie Hilling: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. unless action is taken—in particular action to enforce Yes, I absolutely agree. It is a bit of a fallacy to think the legislation that is in place, which I shall come on to. that volunteering is not already taking place, as 500,000 Such cuts will mean the end of universal out-of-school people already volunteer to work with young people. services for young people. Since January 2007, through They are effective in volunteering activities only if they working in partnership with the voluntary and private are supported in their work financially and by professionally sectors, local authorities have had a statutory duty to qualified and trained staff. Those staff can assist them promote the well-being of young people aged 13 to in developing their work and can ensure that their work 19 years—in fact, it is up to 25 years for those with is of good educational value to young people. learning difficulties—and to promote access to educational and recreational leisure time activities, which are referred Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I want to be clear to as positive activities. The legislation that supports about this. All of us accept that the debt situation is youth work is described in detail in statutory guidance difficult at the moment. The hon. Lady referred to some published in March 2008 under section 507B of the 70% coming from local authorities to pay for such Education Act 1996. That statutory guidance sets out services. Is she saying that she would maintain the the requirement for local authorities to provide youth grants for this type of work on an ongoing basis? work in three areas: positive activities, decision making by young people and 14-to-19 learning. The guidance Julie Hilling: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that refers to the fact that educational leisure-time activities contribution. Yes, absolutely. I am not simply saying are explicitly linked to youth work methods and approaches. that we should maintain the funding; I am saying that The purpose of both forms of positive activities— we should increase it. I will give some statistics at the educational and recreational—is the improvement of end of my speech that will show how positive intervention well-being. The definition of well-being in the legislation and positive activities with young people saves the state reflects the five Every Child Matters outcomes: be a great deal of money. Such funding is an investment healthy, stay safe, enjoy and achieve, make a positive and, as I said, if the hon. Gentleman bears with me, I contribution, and achieve economic well-being. will provide some statistics later to show how when a The statutory guidance also refers to “Aiming High small amount of money—it is a small amount—is put for Young People: A Ten Year Strategy for Positive into services for young people, it saves the state thousands Activities.” That strategy concludes with a very strong of pounds on much deeper interventional work. 31WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 32WH

Mr Rob Wilson: I am listening carefully to what the Julie Hilling: Absolutely. I could not have put it hon. Lady says, much of which seems to focus on the better. The youth service is important in encouraging negative side of what is going on. Has she paid any social and political education, social interaction and attention to, for example, the plans for the national decision making. There are far too many distinguished citizen service and the positive things that that can do reports to mention that demonstrate conclusively that for society cohesion? youth workers play a vital role for young people in re-engaging them in education; making their lives healthier; Julie Hilling: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his improving their access to learning; strengthening contribution. If he will bear with me, I will talk about information, advice and guidance; supporting partnership the national citizen service in just a few moments. working; participating in structured leisure-time activities; In reply to a parliamentary question that I asked the helping them to stay out of the youth justice system; Minister on 15 November, he did not respond to me and encouraging them to play an active and voluntary about the rapidly declining fabric of the maintained part in their local communities. youth service, but instead seemed to state that the national citizen service would compensate for the decline Such successful work is achieved by a relatively small in other provision. I hope that I misunderstood him. cohort of 7,000 professionally qualified staff, working However, if I did not, perhaps he can explain how with 30,000 trained youth support workers and, as I allocating £370 million to the national citizen service have mentioned, an army of half a million volunteers. for, in effect, short-term summer scheme opportunities Those staff work for local authorities and voluntary for 16-year-olds will possibly compensate for the loss organisations, but local authority funding is the key. of the current youth service budget of less than £300 million The values, occupational standards and skilled training per annum that runs for 365 days a year? are the glue that holds the service together. It is therefore with great sadness that I report that youth and community Does the Minister share my concern that many child work training courses may now face wholesale closure. protection and health and safety issues are raised by the fact that inspecting organisations with no track record The sector is really proud of its training courses, in residential work and professional youth work delivery which are offered by about 30 universities and other will be running the short-term national citizen service? I providers. The courses are themselves a product of a am deeply concerned that they do not have the capacity “big society” kind of effort. The standards of the courses or the experience to operate outdoor activities and are validated by the voluntary efforts of professional residential work according to the Department’s health education and training standards committees, which and safety guidelines. Can he give me any assurances in rely on volunteers to create and monitor standards. that regard? Also, who will inspect the quality of the Those committees have decided to apply an important service? The youth service was previously inspected by set of criteria on training courses, one of which is the Ofsted, which has commented on its rising standards requirement that students are recruited after proven over the past four years, when other services were often and committed experience as volunteers or part-time declining. youth workers. As a result, youth work students are I welcome the fact that the Select Committee on deeply committed to their profession and have all Education is conducting an inquiry into youth services volunteered in it. That is a model of the big society and that it will be examining the introduction of the ethos. national citizen service. Youth service professionals and Most mature students enjoy a second chance to learn many of us in this place are beginning to wonder and do not come into higher education through the whether the Minister actually understands what the traditional academic routes. They are community activists youth service is. The youth service has been recognised and organisers who are concerned to become skilled in in the different jurisdictions of the United Kingdom as what they do. The qualification for youth workers relies an integral part of the education system. Does he agree on the successful completion of 50% of field work with the Welsh Assembly Government, the Department practice. Around 60% of the students are women, and of Education in Northern Ireland, the Education and more than 30% are from black and minority ethnic Inspections Act 2006 and the Scottish Government that communities. The high demands of placement learning the youth service is an integral part of the education mean that they cannot easily supplement their student system? time with paid work. Youth work is based on a voluntary professional Despite their strong virtues, youth and community relationship between skilled youth workers and young training courses, which became degree-level courses in people, so it has a broad spectrum of influence and September, have never received funding equivalent to success. The various youth councils across the country that for teachers or social workers. The students, who and the UK Youth Parliament, which so successfully are by and large older and less well off than others, have engages people in political education and civic involvement, had less resourcing in higher education, but now the simply would not exist without the support of local situation is even worse. Is the Minister aware that the authority professional youth workers. At the other end proposal to remove funding for bands B and C will hit of the spectrum, as the work of Professor John Pitts has youth and community work courses, and can he give me clearly shown, the youth work method is the most an assurance that he will look into that with a view to effective means of reducing young people’s involvement reversing the decision for those courses? I can assure in gang crime. him that failure to do so would be the final nail in the Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Does my hon. coffin of a valuable service that, ironically, his predecessors Friend agree that the youth service provides an important created at a time of much higher national debt. element in improving the employability of young people Reducing the deficit and cutting public sector spending because one of the things it does is improve the soft is the order of the Government’s day. Whatever we skills that employers are crying out for? might think about the cuts, we all have an interest in 33WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 34WH cost-effective public services, so I will finish by highlighting 11.27 am the exceptional cost-effectiveness of the youth service and youth work. It is estimated that for just £350 a year Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): I thank for each young person, all young people could access a the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) for good youth work offer. Current spending is £100 a head securing this debate on what is undoubtedly an important per annum for 13 to 19-year-olds. More specifically, the issue. Young people deserve our support, and youth Joseph Rowntree Foundation commissioned an exercise services are vital to all our communities. She is absolutely on the cost of detached youth work, which found that a right that if young people get a better start in life, our project that provided a full range of services and was in communities are safer and more cohesive as a result. It contact with 125 young people a week would cost is also correct to say that prevention—she gave us many £75,000 a year, or £16 for each contact. It concluded figures on that—is better and much more cost-effective that for disadvantaged neighbourhoods, a systematic than simply waiting for the cure. street-based youth service would cost a fraction of the The number of young people who are not in education, amount spent on other services targeting that group. It employment or training—NEETs—is horrifying, and it cited, in particular, the £450 million budget for the is crucial that we engage those individuals in our Connexions service. communities. In my part of the world, Devon, 1,190 young people between 16 and 18—5.7% of the people Other research has highlighted the relative costs of in that age bracket—are unemployed, do not have training the criminal justice system and other forms of intervention, and, frankly, have very little hope. As the hon. Lady including youth work. The Green Paper, “Every Child explained, that has a cost to society, and it is not Matters” stated: insignificant. The figures vary, depending on how they “Society as a whole benefits through reduced spending on are calculated, but those I have looked at show that each problems that can be avoided and through maximising the contribution NEET costs around £97,000 over their lifetime. That to society of all citizens. For instance, a child with a conduct figure could exceed £300,000, depending on the benefits disorder at age 10 will cost the public purse around £70,000 by they have to look for. age 28”. The Audit Commission’s report on the benefits of sport Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I and leisure activities in preventing anti-social behaviour congratulate the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie among young people estimates that a young person in Hilling) on securing the debate. On the point made by the criminal justice system will cost the taxpayer more my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne than £200,000 by the age of 16. The young person who Marie Morris) about NEETs, in Medway, 666 people in is given support to stay out of the system, however, a population of 260,000 are NEET. Does she agree with costs less than £50,000. Other comparative costings me that we need to do all we can to support organisations include: £1,300 a year per person for an electronically- such as the Medway Youth Trust, a charity that does monitored curfew order; around £35,000 a year to keep excellent work in giving people who are NEET support one young person in a young offenders institution; an and help to move into working life? annual average of £3,800 a year for secondary education; and around £9,000 per person for the average resettlement package after custody. Against those, £350 a year for Anne Marie Morris: I thank my hon. Friend for that each young person would be a small price to pay to intervention and endorse what he said. Such organisations unlock the rich benefits of community-based provision should, undoubtedly, be encouraged. for all and to provide extra opportunities for personal We are missing one key piece: providing youth services and social development for those young people who, by must be about providing quality. It is not a matter of virtue of life experience and circumstance, are so how much money is thrown at something but how it is disadvantaged that they cannot successfully make use spent to get the best possible result. I am lucky, because of mainstream services. Teignbridge, which is my local area and a large part of I could speak about the young people I have worked my constituency, has an excellent youth services record. with over the years and the difference that youth work The portfolio holder described Mike Stevens, who is the and youth workers have made to their lives, but I have leader of the unit in Teignbridge, as outstanding and spoken for long enough. I will end with a plea. We are said that, if she could, she would clone him. There are entering a period that will be even harder for young some extremely able people who deliver high-quality people. They will have to deal not only with the services. normal trials and tribulations of entering adulthood There are two outstanding examples in Teignbridge but with unemployment, cuts to local services and district. In Newton Abbot, which is at the heart of my higher costs for everything. I plead with the Minister to constituency, an organisation called Chances, which take action now to protect and invest in a highly cost- operates out of a building called The Junction, is responsible effective service. I ask him to please take action to for giving many young people who are excluded from defend youth work and youth services before it is too school hope and a future that they would otherwise not late. Youth work has always been known as a Cinderella have. I have seen the kind of outward-bound courses service, but please let Cinders go to the ball. that are offered and the engagement of the teachers who work there, and they are fantastic. Several hon. Members rose— More recently, a new centre was opened in Dawlish, which is another key town in my constituency. It is called Red Rock, and what is special about it is that it is Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair): Order. A considerable a fine example of the big society. I would take issue with number of Members wish to speak. I intend to start the the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), wind-ups at about 12.10 pm, so I encourage brevity. who suggested that the big society was merely a convenient 35WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 36WH

[Anne Marie Morris] sector development grants will mean? That central Government funding for youth services has been cut—that label. The centre evolved from the local business community, is a national cut in funds for youth services. What does the local voluntary sector and the local authority working she think will be the impact of that? together. Anne Marie Morris: I thank the hon. Lady for her Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): The hon. Lady intervention. I am sure that in due course the Minister speaks about the big society. One imagines that that will clarify exactly how that will work, but my understanding means that local voluntary and third sector groups will is that it is not about reducing money but about taking take over where public services are cut. In my constituency, away artificial barriers between individual pots of money. we have had a meeting with a dozen local organisations that are fearful that their funding will be cut, and that Julie Hilling: To add to what my hon. Friend the they will be able to provide less, rather than more, in Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) said, the cuts future. to the youth opportunity fund and youth capital fund were cuts in central Government funding, so this is not Anne Marie Morris: I thank the hon. Gentleman for just about local authority cuts. In addition, money that his contribution. I shall turn to funding in a minute, was coming from the Department for Education specifically because clearly it is relevant, but let me stick with for youth work has been cut. That is a double whammy quality, which is key. for local authority and area-based youth services. That project involves real engagement, and it is not the intention of anyone—certainly not the county Anne Marie Morris: I thank the hon. Lady for her council—that group A should take over from group B. intervention. Again, she is talking about structure rather What people see in the future is an integrated approach than amount. As the Minister will explain, we absolutely among different parts of our community, which we will support youth services because they are important. should commend. The hon. Lady mentioned several new initiatives, including the national citizen service. Actually, there is a new I believe that there is a misunderstanding about funding. group in the constituency adjoining her own. It is called The hon. Member for Bolton West spoke about cuts. It the Bolton Lads and Girls Club, and I hope that she will is known across the House that this country is plagued welcome it. I am lucky, because the national citizen with a huge national debt, and that the Government service, which provides an outward-bound social action have to look at the measures to be taken. However, they experience for young people, will see 900 places created have not cut youth services. They have taken away the across the south-west by Young Devon and the South barriers between individual prescribed funding streams West Consortium. That must be a good thing for the that central Government used to pass money down to future. local government, but the amount of money going from central Government to local government remains Julie Hilling rose— unchanged. Anne Marie Morris: If I may, let me get back to the Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): Will the principle. We have been asked to keep contributions hon. Lady give way? short, so I will not take any further interventions. Quality is key. In conversations that I have had with Anne Marie Morris: May I finish? Local government my county council, I have found that people like Mike has been given the opportunity to use money sensibly. Stevens and what he contributes are highly valued. That Ninety funding streams will be reduced to 10, and that kind of provision is not at risk. What any responsible will substantially reduce the bureaucracy. It will also council must do is look across their patch for the best liberate £7 billion-worth of funds for local authorities way to provide best-quality services. Our young people to use appropriately. There is certainly no intention that deserve no less. this should be about cuts between between national and local government. 11.37 am Stella Creasy rose— Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): Again, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) Julie Hilling rose— for securing this debate. I am sure that we have all seen in our constituencies the excellent work that youth Anne Marie Morris: I will allow interventions in a services do. In Leeds West, there are several vital services. moment. Let me just clarify my point on funding. What Earlier, I mentioned one of them—Bramley and Rodley we will see in local government is a review of what Community Action—and now I would like to highlight quality and value for money should look like. In speaking the role of another one. to my county council, I have found no evidence that Armley Juniors is a small group in my constituency. youth services per se will be any harder hit than any It is run by just three people in a deprived part of a other part of the budget. On community engagement, constituency that already has low incomes and low we are looking for more, not less, but before I move on, educational attainment. Armley Juniors took over an I am more than happy to give way. old post office in the constituency and has managed to turn it into a youth centre with a kitchen for cooking Stella Creasy: Can the hon. Lady clarify what she classes. It also offers computer lessons and a communal thinks the cuts to the Department for Education’s non- area for children on the estate, and runs sports teams school budget and the cuts to the voluntary youth and outdoor activities during term and school holidays. 37WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 38WH

It benefits from funding from Leeds city council and a their lives. Cuts on the scale envisaged by this Government peppercorn rent on its site, but, like many youth services will devastate youth services across the country, and I across the country, it operates on a shoestring budget. urge the Minister to think again. Leeds city council faces 27% cuts across the board during this Parliament, and the people in the dedicated 11.42 am team running Armley Juniors, whom I visited recently, Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): I congratulate are extremely worried about their future. Such issues the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) on may not register on the national scale, where we are securing this extremely important and interesting debate. seeing significant job losses and cuts across the board I am not sure whether I will be able to share her passion, following the comprehensive spending review—indeed, but I shall do my very best. in Leeds alone, we are facing the loss of 3,000 council During my 10 years as a councillor before becoming jobs—but on the Heights estate in Armley, where Armley the MP for North Swindon, this was one of the most Juniors operates, the removal of funding would deprive important issues that came up in the residents surveys young people in the community of the only communal and in the public meetings that I held. Parents generally space in the area. accepted that their children were well catered for during The estate is a densely populated inner-city area with school hours, but there were often concerns about after- no playing fields, no other youth clubs and no sports school hours and the weekends. I have very many happy halls. To make matters worse, Government cuts mean memories of going to youth clubs in the 1980s, and I that the council now has to charge local youth groups know that youth provision is essential. It channels energies, for their use of school playing fields and community and provides support and opportunities to develop, and areas, which is a double whammy for groups such as many hon. Members who have already spoken have Armley Juniors that need to use those facilities if they gone into detail on that. I sympathise with those who are to provide activities, especially sports activities, for highlight funding pressures, or even call for youth provision young people. funding to be made statutory. However, I think that far more can be done without money, services and facilities, Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): Does my hon. and so in my brief speech I shall touch on some positive Friend agree that with a comprehensive spending review suggestions based on my experience as a councillor and that will hit children and families even harder than my work with the youth service. other sections of society, the need for services such as Local authorities should do a lot more with their those in her community will be even greater? buildings. I recently secured a Westminster Hall debate on the future provision for libraries, and I think that Rachel Reeves: I agree with my hon. Friend. As well councils could do a lot more to open up community as having some excellent youth services in my constituency, buildings such as libraries to organisations for the provision we have Armley prison, and the point made earlier by of facilities. It does not cost much to put shelves on my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West about the wheels and to push them to the side in the evenings. It is long-term impacts of cuts to youth services rings true to a great crime that we have many facilities that are open me. A lot of people who provide youth services in my for only 10 hours for their primary function, with the area say that their aim is to ensure that young people community being locked out for the remainder of the from very deprived backgrounds do not become the week. More should be done also with schools. I was future inmates of Armley prison. During these difficult interested to hear the comments of the hon. Member economic times, it is very worthwhile considering long-term for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) about her experience in impacts. Many hon. Members here today will recognise the ’80s. Today, we have huge swathes of private finance that this is an issue in their constituencies, and I fear initiative schools, but the communities that I represent that the cuts will cost us more in the long term. cannot afford to access those wonderful facilities and, therefore, far more should be done to open up the Alongside the cuts to the police in Leeds, there are schools. cuts to sports funding in schools, which we read about Our leisure facilities—sports facilities predominantly— over the weekend and on which we will hopefully—although should do a lot more with the youth service. The Twilight I fear not—hear some more positive news this week. Football schemes target children from challenging There are also cuts to free swimming, and cutting circumstances and promote positive engagement, and services such as Armley Juniors on top of all that will that makes a big difference. Also, where there is funding have costly implications for both the community and to build new facilities, those facilities should be accessible. for Government spending in the long run. I have seen many facilities that in hindsight were built in Most of us remember the 1980s and the generation of the wrong place, and I am delighted that the new young people who were condemned to the scrap heap £1.2 million youth facility in my constituency was built then. I was at school in that decade, and remember well in the town centre, which is easily the most accessible the funding cuts that meant that sports clubs and after- place. school activities were available to children if their parents Many hon. Members have also talked about the big had money, but that children whose parents did not society, and Labour Members often try to produce have money and who lived in inner-city areas without scare stories about that being a way to cover for potential open spaces or playing fields, missed out. I urge the funding cuts. The reality is, however, that it is about Minister not to allow us to go back to those bleak days. empowering local organisations, and the Government The value of organisations such as those that we are and local authorities can do more to support them. championing today cannot be measured, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West said, just by their Mr David: I am president of the Council for Wales cost on a balance sheet. They educate, engage and of Voluntary Youth Services and all the voluntary inspire young people and make a huge difference to organisations involved are extremely keen to play a 39WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 40WH

[Mr David] Justin Tomlinson: I am not sure that I agree. My point was about going to the young people, but the hon. Lady bigger role in the big society—there is no question has made a good point. Engaging with certain children about that. However, they all say to me, “We cannot do is very challenging, and the youth service must be as that if our grant aid from the public sector is being cut proactive as possible. If that means that it parks itself dramatically.” Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that right in the heart of communities and engages directly, the things that he is talking about are almost incidental that is only a good thing. The service can also be there to the major cuts that will affect the voluntary sector through the leisure facilities—teenage discos for over the next couple of years? example—so I sort of agree with the hon. Lady. Justin Tomlinson: I was speaking at the Voluntary Finally, the principle of the National Union of Students Action Swindon annual general meeting on Friday, and discount card, which applies to students, should be I got similar messages there. We cannot hide away from extended. A lot more could be done to get young people the current economic challenges, and I am trying to set discounts so that they can make more of the leisure out some areas in which we can make a positive difference. facilities that are accessible to them. As a consumer The shadow Minister will confirm whether it is the body, young people are huge in number. By being Labour party position to find some money—good luck proactive, we can make those facilities more accessible, if it can—and the Minister will set out the Government’s to tackle the problems of boredom. position. We cannot ignore the situation that we are in. I have talked about making more of our buildings 11.50 am accessible. Many organisations have said to me, “We’ve Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): I, too, got willing volunteers and enthusiasm. We can see a congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton problem and we want to tackle it, but we don’t have West (Julie Hilling) on securing this important debate. access to facilities.” Whether as Government, local There is no doubt that all hon. Members in this Chamber authorities or local businesses, we could do far more to are concerned about the personal development of Britain’s provide those facilities, along with advice and support. young people and how best to secure that. As somebody One challenge in getting funding is the need to fill in with a background in the voluntary youth sector as well extremely complicated forms. When I set up the sports as local government, I recognise well the concerns expressed forum in Swindon, a lot of effort was put into filling in by many hon. Members today. forms. Volunteers are keen to make a difference on the I want to make three points. First, the message that front line, but not to lock themselves away in offices for came through strongly in my hon. Friend’s speech is many hours with complicated forms. that early intervention is valuable. The benefits to society The youth service also needs to be a lot more proactive from working with young people accrue much later on, in matching with the times at which children or young but that does not mean that we should not recognise people actually want to use its services. I am delighted them early on. It is about understanding the best way of that many authorities have changed their hours to match intervening. One of the challenges—one thing that we when children are outside school, and they should also Opposition Members see in some of the things the go to where the children are. Too often, I have visited Government are doing—is that the ability to be flexible youth centres where a service is being provided to just a and work with young people in a range of different handful of children. In my constituency, we have an ways seems to be narrowing rather than broadening. ice-skating disco on a Friday night. There are 650 It is about not just spaces and places for young children there, and the youth service should be parked people, but the people who work with them and the outside providing help and support to those children purpose of that work. We need both generalist activities who require it. Not every town has an ice-skating disco, that help and support young people, many of which but the same principle would apply to a cinema or come from the voluntary youth sector, and specialist bowling, or to teenage nightclubs, which I am assured services. I have worked in setting up both kinds of are still very popular. In communities where there are activities in my local community in Walthamstow—working open spaces, the leisure or youth teams could turn up with young people at risk of joining gangs, and with with footballs and bibs, or rounders equipment, and young people to help them achieve their potential in a organise impromptu games. I am sure that all hon. broader sense. I am concerned about the idea that the Members see when out in their constituencies that there national citizen service can be mixed with those more are lots of kids hanging around, and they feel that integrated services. someone should go along and positively engage with them. Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Lab): On the point about reaching out to small groups (Tim Loughton) indicated dissent. and how it would be better to reach out to larger ones, some of the hardest-to-reach young people in some of Stella Creasy: I am glad to see the Minister shaking the most difficult-to-reach communities need youth work his head. Those two things cannot be comparable. We outreach and support on a very small scale. I have seen in the youth sector know that they are apples and pears. youth workers in some of the most difficult parts of my The national citizen service, which is interesting, should constituency just hanging out with children on the in no way be regarded as a compensation for the ability streets of an evening, so that the children at least engage to integrate services and work with young people in in positive dialogue while they hang out. That is the their communities in the long term. In areas such as kind of youth outreach work that is in danger when we Walthamstow, it is important for people on the ground focus on big projects and on the big national citizen to build up trusting relationships over time with young service, rather than on smaller initiatives directed at people to help them make the right choices in their life. particular groups of young people. It is critical that we understand the need to intervene 41WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 42WH differently in respect of various age groups and children service that the Government are already saying, “We in differing circumstances. Youth services in local areas will not fund this properly. We’re expecting the voluntary have been able to develop ways of working around sector to pay for it.” Many voluntary sector organisations young people, rather than around the service that is that might work with youth services in future to provide delivered. I accept that that differs in various places. the more creative services that the hon. Gentleman was There are issues about how youth services are delivered, talking about are dependent on public sector funding, but we Opposition Members are concerned that the so they will be unable to do the work he wants to cuts that are coming through now will hamper youth happen, let alone to provide services not just for 16-year-olds services’ ability to be more flexible in working with for three weeks over the summer, but for every age young people in different ways and producing the group at the point at which they need intervention. interventions that people need to get the outcomes we I plead with all hon. Members to give the Minister all want. the evidence and encouragement he needs to return to Secondly, the consequences of the public sector cuts, his colleagues and fight for the funding that youth nationally and locally, are already clear. I urge the hon. services so desperately needs to deliver services that we Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) to all want for young people in our communities. I am look again at the impact of the cuts on the national and looking forward to welcoming the Minister to Walthamstow local youth sector, particularly the voluntary youth tomorrow, so that we can have a conversation about sector. We recognise the interconnectedness of the voluntary how he can fight for the funding he needs to deliver the youth sector and local youth services; that is the challenge services that all hon. Members in this Chamber want to for us. The National Council for Voluntary YouthServices see delivered. has said that already this year youth sector organisations have lost 20% of their budget, and that 80% of the 11.56 am programmes that are closing are those working with people who are not in education, employment or training— Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) the very group we are especially concerned about. That (LD): I am grateful for the opportunity to say just a few is already happening as a result of the in-year cuts. words in this important debate, and I am grateful to the There is understanding about the relationship between hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) for securing the voluntary youth sector and youth services locally, it. and other public services. It is important to put on the I am ashamed to admit that I have been involved in record the great support that the police and health care the youth service for nearly 40 years, since I was a services in my area provide to youth projects. However, teenager, particularly in detached youth work, which is, before we can get to the great world in which the for me, one of the most important areas of youth work voluntary youth sector is more involved in running in urban Britain and many other places, too. I want to services, we will see it being cut off at the start, so that it say a few words and join other hon. Members in pleading will be unable to do some of the more innovate partnership for the Government to ensure that they understand the work we all want to see happen. importance of Government and local authority support I shall make my third and final point brief because I for the youth service. recognise that we are short of time. The challenge we I have always believed that there ought to be a statutory are facing is not difficult economic circumstances but youth service. That is my party’s policy, it is still my the question, “What are our priorities?” If our priority belief, and I hope that before long that can be the is to get best value for money, it is clear from the case position. It has always been a Cinderella service, although made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West it is the bit of support for young people that is needed to that investment in voluntary youth services and youth complement parental and family support, and school services locally reaps dividends well beyond the initial and educational support. Other role models who are financial investment. not authority figures can often be far more influential What is the best way to tap into the ability and in ensuring that young people have the development, interest in volunteering with young people locally, and security and safety they need. how best to support it? I welcome some of the ideas the I welcome the Education Committee’s inquiry. The hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) Government are looking forward to introducing has come up with, but he did not say how he would get comprehensive proposals in the new year. I welcome the youth services bus to the youth disco, or who would that. The Minister has often been well received since pay for the person who organises and manages that. taking on his job. I thank him for that. I am keen for That is our critique. The hon. Gentleman’s ideas are him to be bold and ambitious, both in his Department fantastic, but how will he make them happen? Delivery and across Government, because this is not only the and implementation— responsibility of the Department for Education. Justin Tomlinson: There is still funding, although all The national citizen service is a good idea, but as hon. Members accept that that there are challenges in colleagues have said it is a time-limited, specific activity that regard. My point is that people should make the for some people at some time. It will grow slowly. The best use of their resources. I would expect that to be a reality of the youth service is that it can be found by and priority in respect of organisations’ funding. is accessible to everybody in every community. That is the difference. The youth service is there now. We have Stella Creasy: No one doubts the need to make the to ensure that we do not lose any of its validity or best use of resources, but cutting resources year in, year accessibility. out with no alternative and asking the voluntary sector May I make a special plea to ensure that the to pick up the slack does not add up. For example, it is funding for people to be qualified and trained as youth explicit in the tender document for the national citizen workers is increased, not decreased? Some of the best, 43WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 44WH

[Simon Hughes] need to lead on that, and my plea is for the Minister to say to every council, “You lead with the voluntary and most talented people, who may not have a great academic faith groups. Do the work on the ground.” background, come through the youth service as volunteers, The Minister must also ensure that we have funding then realise that it is their vocation. They have just the for youth workers whom we need to do their job, and sort of skills that are needed. Often, they are women or that we do not lose them; we need them now more than people from black and minority ethnic communities. ever. We must not lose key services, which are often the They are really good role models who have been where glue that keeps communities together as well as keeping the youngsters are now. They understand the score, young people and their communities safe. because they have been in the front line and have come through. We need to ensure that they are given the 12.1 pm educational support to go on and do practice-based qualifications. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this important I have said that my engagement has mainly been with debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member detached youth work, but that is not to underestimate for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) on her excellent speech. club-based or specialist youth work. The benefit that She is clearly not just an expert but passionate about the hon. Member for Bolton West mentioned in being her working life before Parliament, and she probably out on the street, engaging with youngsters where they knows more than anybody in the House about the are, not expecting them to come to where the service is, youth service. I hope the Government will listen to her. is fundamentally important. If people are to gain the confidence of young people, they do not say, “Come Luton North is an unusual constituency. When I was and do it my way”; they say, “We’re going to come elected in 1997 it had the highest proportion of children alongside you and understand what you want.” aged under five in the whole country. In more recent years, it had the highest proportion of school-age children We know that local government will have a hard time, in the country, and those are now young people. There as will central Government, because the settlement is has been a surge of young people, and although Luton difficult. But local government does not have to find all has wonderful educational and youth facilities, we have its savings by cutting grants to the voluntary sector and a considerable number of young people who are disaffected does not have to cut equally across the board. I plead and perhaps not so successful in education, and they with every council, no matter who runs it, to make sure need much more support. We had a large number of that they do not think that the implication of a severe people not in education, employment or training, and spending cut means cutting the voluntary sector rather until recently, we did not quite know what was happening than reducing the in-house services. Often, the latter to them every year. needs to be done, because money for the voluntary sector can multiply in terms of its benefits in the community. A number of community centres were built by Labour councils in the past. When I was a councillor in the 1970s, we built superb facilities that are still in operation Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): Will the today. However, facilities alone are not enough. We hon. Gentleman give way? need staff to operate them. Some of that staffing is now being squeezed, and some of the services in those Simon Hughes: I will not because I am conscious that centres for young people are being trimmed at the other hon. Members want to speak. edges, despite the fact that we have an excellent Labour I am keen to ensure that evening and weekend work is council that is doing its best. There are problems now, supported. One of the problems with a lot of traditional and unless something is done it will get much worse youth services is that they were there—fantastically—on once the serious cuts come through. To pretend that Monday to Thursday evenings, but not on Fridays, youth services do not need to be cut and that we can Saturdays or Sundays. That is exactly when young squeeze somewhere else is playing with words. The cuts people need places to go to. will affect every service one way or another. The youth A good example of a youth service was a place I went service has been underfunded in the past and it does not to in south Wales a few years ago. The kids wanted need less funding; it needs much more. somewhere to hang around safely. They were given [ANDREW ROSINDELL in the Chair] support locally in the valleys and they were able to build One factor is safety, which my hon. Friend mentioned. a shelter. It was a very simple shelter, but they built it Young people are on the streets. It is not just those in and it was their place. It was a sort of glorified bus gangs, but those not in gangs who do not feel safe. They shelter, but it meant they had somewhere they could go, need places to go and professional staff to organise supported by individuals. Often, simple things that cost activities in which they can participate. In a letter that I small amounts of money can transform people’s self received this morning, Tracey Quinn, the integrated worth and allow them to have a place they can call their youth support team manager for Luton North and a own and build on. senior youth worker, wrote, Lastly, the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin “we are proud of the good youth work we do with young people Tomlinson) pointed out that there are often many unused in the north of Luton and any future cuts to this young people’s buildings. In difficult financial circumstances there service will be detrimental to both youth work and young people is an imperative for organisations to work together as part of the North Luton community.” complementarily, to ensure that facilities are shared and There is serious concern at local level in Luton. I that people do not just do their own thing. That is often worked for Unison for many years as a researcher. It a danger in the statutory youth sector if there are has said that Connexions will face cuts of up to 50% across schools that do not stay open after school hours or the country. That has serious implications, especially youth clubs that open only in the evenings. Local authorities for NEETs. 45WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 46WH

I must take issue with the hon. Member for Bermondsey My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes). He was talking Reeves) said that cuts to the youth service are a false about a national youth service and implying that the economy. That is a powerful and central point that we Government should take a central role in that. However, should all reflect on. Making such cuts to youth services when asked to justify current cuts to youth services at a will lead to additional costs in policing, social work, recent meeting with young people, he told them that the education, health services and fighting crime in our decision was not for central Government, but for local communities. If we do not get it right, we will be paying councils. That is saying, “We’ll cut your money, but for the cuts to the youth service time and time again. you’ll get the blame.” We cannot blame local authorities when they are facing savage cuts. Justin Tomlinson: Will the hon. Gentleman confirm My major point is that I do not accept the need for exactly what level of funding the Labour party would cuts. I have raised that point in the Commons and, provide and how they would pay for it? before anybody intervenes, I also raised it with Ministers in the last Government before the election. We should Toby Perkins: I will come to the hon. Gentleman’s be targeting employment creation to bring down contribution in more detail. We had a Budget in 2010, unemployment. That will increase tax revenues and and people could see from the direction of travel taken reduce the need for benefit payments. The by-product by the Labour Government over previous years just of that will be a reduction in the deficit. how much of a priority we placed on youth services. Some countries have gone for savage cuts. I feel The improvement in youth services is clear as a result of deeply sorry for the Irish; they have gone for savage that. cuts, but that makes their economy perform less well. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West also said Setting aside their massive debts, they have seen output that she did not want us to return to the bleak days of decline, and going for deeper cuts will make the problem the 1980s. My hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham even worse. The developed world should be reflating East (Heidi Alexander) talked about the big society as a not deflating, but we are moving towards deflation. political convenience. She is in good company because Cutting expenditure on youth facilities will make the the Minister himself is completely unclear about what situation worse. Employment generation should be used the big society means. He says: in that area to bring down levels of unemployment and “The trouble is that most people don’t know what the Big start to reduce the deficit. I could go on at greater Society really means, least of all the unfortunate ministers who length but I have probably said enough. I will listen with have to articulate it.” interest to what the Minister has to say. We look forward to him attempting to do that in a moment. He says: 12.6 pm “What actually is the Big Society, let alone is it good or not? Exactly how big is it now or is it going to be?” Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Weir. I can answer that question: it is getting smaller by the [Interruption.] I am sorry, Mr Rosindell, you don’t even moment. However, I look forward to him perhaps look like Mr Weir. attempting to articulate better in the future than he has This has been an excellent and thought-provoking been able to in the past what the big society is and what debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for the contribution of youth services should be to the big Bolton West (Julie Hilling) on securing the debate and society. on her contribution, and I will reflect on some of the The hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie other contributions. Morris) made a thoughtful contribution, which started One point that my hon. Friend made particularly well when she said that prevention was better than cure. powerfully was about the value that youth work provides She focused on how important it was for us to take in generating money into our communities. The fact serious action on NEETs. She may be aware of the piece that for every £1 spent on youth services, another £8 of in The Times Educational Supplement with the sub-heading voluntary activity is generated is a powerful statistic. “Experts predict rise in Neets as young people are left She also reflected on the national citizen service, and without support following local authority raids”. It whether it should be seen as an alternative to youth stated: service provision. The general mood of the debate was “Local authorities are slashing Connexions budgets” that it should not. and youth services, I would be interested to hear the Minister’s comments “raising fears that young people out of work or education will be to the question raised by my hon. Friend during Education left without support.” questions: In raising the initial question, the hon. Lady was on “As youth services nationally have already been cut by 30 to exactly the right lines. It is just a shame that she did not 40%...how will the Secretary of State ensure the quality of youth follow that through, but decided instead to divert us to service provision in future?” the line we heard a number of times that the issue is the The Minister responded: quality of the service, rather than the money. It is deeply “The hon. Lady underlines the great importance of engaging disingenuous for us as politicians and for those in the young people of this country as proper citizens, which is why government to talk about the level of cuts that local we are carrying forward the national citizen service programme,”— authorities will see and say that they must not cut [Official Report, 15 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 643-4.] safeguarding—the Minister has already told them that, To an impartial observer, that sounds rather as if the and the Prime Minister said that they should not cut the national citizen service was the replacement for youth voluntary sector—but that it is totally up to local authorities services. what decisions they make. Some responsibility must be 47WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 48WH

[Toby Perkins] When the hon. Gentleman said that councils do not have to cut the voluntary sector, he was repeating the taken at central Government level. If cuts of 27% in line that we have been hearing, which does not take into local authority funding are to be made, youth services account the serious level of cuts that there will be for in particular will be affected, but services will be affected local authorities. Inevitably, when so much of local across the board. We cannot keep saying to local authorities, authorities’ money is already tied up in contracts with “Well, it’s your decision what you choose to cut.” The external providers, the cost of redundancies and so on, Government have to take some responsibility for that. the voluntary sector is an easy area for them to cut. The The hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) reality that we all recognise, and that the voluntary had obviously given youth services considerable thought sector is very worried about, is the amount of cuts that and he reflected positively on his experiences as a councillor there will be. and the importance of youth services in that area, but My hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin he repeated the idea that the cut in funding should not Hopkins) focused on the fact that the cuts will not spare necessarily lead to a cut in services. That is the elephant youth services. I put it to him that in fact the cuts will in the room that we need to be honest about. If youth specifically focus more on an area such as youth services service professionals are to take us seriously in this than on some of the statutory areas, such as safeguarding, debate, we need to be honest about the fact that they which councils will be very sensitive about cutting. will see very substantial cuts. I think that 95% of local authority youth services say that their budgets for providing I think that all of us, right across the House, would services to young people in their area are being cut. support the general ethos of a big society and the That will make a real difference to the level of service general principle behind it. The Minister is right to say provided. that it still defies an exact description, but we all have an The hon. Gentleman had some good ideas about how idea of what we think it ought to mean. school and council buildings could be used more effectively, The lack of co-ordination between different organisations but we must be realistic. The big cost for youth services has implications for how we keep our children safe. is actually for the people employed within them, so yes, Safeguarding is an area that many councils will be we can use buildings more effectively, but there is still a protecting, but safeguarding often applies after the cost attached. We ought to be realistic about the cost problem has been identified. Youth workers play a attached to improving those services. The hon. Gentleman’s central role in identifying children who are at risk and ideas about taking people on trips and so on all have a in making referrals. There are many cross-referrals from cost attached to them. youth services, police services and adult social services to child social services. If those services are diminished, Justin Tomlinson: Just to clarify, opening up those the number of referrals will reduce and many children facilities was as much for external organisations, whether will never be identified as having problems. those are scout groups, dance groups, sports clubs or whatever. I would like the Minister to respond to the question about whether he agrees that youth services are an Toby Perkins: Okay. Certainly the voluntary sector integral part of our education system. Does he still see a will play a very important role. As someone who has central role for youth services in our education system? been involved in youth sport coaching for the last six or Does he accept that local authority funding is the glue seven years, I know how important the role of the that holds a wide range of youth services together? We voluntary sector and sports organisations is and completely currently spend about £100 per year per young person. support that. That is why I have been so horrified by the How much does the Minister think that we will spend in cuts that the same Minister has been making to the 2011-12? Does he see youth work as a professional role? school sports partnership. That was a very important Does he recognise the professional qualifications that way of engaging children in sport, which led to their youth workers have now and how important they are? involvement in sports clubs. My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) reflected on the interconnectivity of all these Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con): Will the hon. services. That is a central point that we need to consider. Gentleman accept that the majority of youths in an The hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark area have no interaction whatever with youth services, (Simon Hughes) reflected on a lifetime dedicated to and that within areas there is often tension between a youth work and youth services and made a thoughtful number of voluntary organisations and the local authority? contribution. When he reflected on the success of youth It would be much better if the local authorities worked services in their contribution to the education of people much more closely with the youths and if the local who then go on to develop themselves further and voluntary organisations provided the activities and services become mature students, he made a very powerful that those young people wanted. point. He also reflected on the importance of street engagement in terms of youth services. That is another Toby Perkins: The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful of the central areas in which the national citizen case for expanding funding for youth services. I would service will be no replacement for youth services, because certainly support him in that campaign, but at this time the national citizen service is a universal service and the we are trying to protect what we have. The key point is activity that it involves will take place over a very short that youth services work across our communities, but period of a young person’s life, whereas youth services they work most closely with those in the most deprived are there every single day of the year, providing a areas, those most likely to drop out of school and those service, particularly to people from more deprived most likely to get involved in crime. The central role communities, out on the streets. It is a service that they played by youth services in this country and their success have to engage with; they have to make that contribution. has been recognised by people across the world. 49WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 50WH

Finally, the Minister must set at rest the minds of to give greater autonomy to local authorities. We want people involved in youth work and say that he values to introduce an early intervention grant to help their work. If he does value it, he should say what he disadvantaged young people get on track for success, will do to ensure that the excellent youth services that using proven effective practices. That is the best use of are provided in this country are protected. public funds. The hon. Lady rightly catalogued the cost of failure in this area. 12.19 pm Yesterday, I visited Nottingham, the early intervention city, to see a series of projects that are being led by the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), who I (Tim Loughton): It is a pleasure to serve under your am delighted to say is undertaking an early intervention chairmanship for the first time, Mr Rosindell. This is review for the Government. That is where the hon. the worst kind of debate to which to respond. I have Lady has her roots as a youth worker. As many hon. been left with 11 minutes to take on board the excellent Members have said, early intervention is key.It is important contributions of seven Back Benchers in this worthwhile not just in the early years, but in identifying teenagers and informed debate. It has not been quite as well who are at risk of indulging in dangerous behaviour, attended as the debate on high-speed rail, but this before they get on a slippery slope. matter is of great importance to everybody who is present and to people in our constituencies. We also want to promote new partnerships and sources I will discard most of my speech and respond to the of finance with the private sector and voluntary bodies. points that have been raised by hon. Members. At the We want to enable voluntary bodies to challenge the end, I will respond to the points made by the hon. monopoly provision of youth services departments. The Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling). She provided big society bank is a particularly interesting way in some questions to the Department at 21 minutes past which huge amounts of money might be leveraged into midnight last night. Unfortunately, I was not at my desk innovative and exciting youth projects. and have not had time to go into them in detail. I have talked to a huge number of people who are [Interruption.] I was at my desk at 21 minutes past passionate about achieving excellent services for young 11 last night, but not at 21 minutes past 12. I am happy people and I will be talking to young people, youth to provide the hon. Lady with more detail and to have a services representatives, businesses and the media over meeting with her to take up the more substantive issues. the coming months to develop our thinking. I have set I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate up a youth forum of key players in the youth sector, and recognise her great experience in this area as a which will meet again in two weeks. That is an important former youth worker, a former president of the Community source of information, as are the various panels of and YouthWorkers Union and a committed campaigner young people that I have set up to inform the Government for young people. I believe that services for young about how best to shape policy. people are vital. I have had the pleasure of visiting the fantastic Bolton Lads and Girls Club, which has been Young people contribute a massive amount to their mentioned no fewer than three times. The Prime Minister communities, but the press they get is out of keeping has been there at least twice and the Prime Minister’s with that and unduly negative. Antisocial behaviour wife has visited it. It is in the constituency neighbouring must be tackled firmly, but one of my first responsibilities the hon. Lady’s. Recently, I was delighted to join a is to celebrate young people’s achievements, and to group of business leaders in Blackburn who are working promote a culture in the country and in the media of with the founders of that club to establish a series of doing so. I am sure that all hon. Members present will similar facilities across the north-west of England, which want to contribute to that. is tremendously exciting. The commitment shown to My hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot young people by the OnSide project and by local people (Anne Marie Morris) made the strong point that prevention and businesses in Bolton is second to none, so the hon. is better than waiting for the cure, hence our emphasis Lady can speak from great experience. on early intervention through the early intervention I will set out briefly the principles of the Government’s grant. How that money is spent is important. We should approach to youth services before responding to specific not just throw money at projects. Their success should questions. We want to promote a culture of being be determined not by the number of participants, but positive about young people in this country, which by whether they provide a life-changing experience for engages with the media, central and local government the young person, by the value added and by the quality and people of all generations. Intergenerational trust of the experience. There has been too much concentration has taken a knock in recent years, and has been exacerbated on how many people have participated, regardless of by negative stories about young people and mixed messages the outcomes. from the previous Government. The good projects My hon. Friend rightly said that the big society is not supported by the previous Government sat uneasily a political convenience, but something that has been with the negative messages given by the respect agenda, going on in parts of the country beneath the radar for antisocial behaviour orders, curfew orders and the many years. We want to raise it on to the radar and to proliferation of those ghastly Mosquito devices. encourage more people to participate in it. The Opposition We want to promote the involvement of young people spokesman fell into the trap of lazy journalists. Occasionally, in decision making at the top table on matters that it is useful to let detail get in the way of a good headline. affect them, not just on specific youth budget issues. If he reads my speech at the Edith Kahn memorial That is not tokenism. As money is tight, we are freeing lecture, he will see that the 17 pages subsequent to the local authorities to decide what money should be spent initial setting out of the problems are rather good and on in the light of local priorities. We have ended ring-fencing set out what the big society is all about. I recommend 51WH Youth Service23 NOVEMBER 2010 Youth Service 52WH

[Tim Loughton] asked about collecting information on youth services and auditing them. The Government collect annual that he reads it in full; it is available on the Department figures on local authority expenditure on youth work for Education website. It sounds as though Mike Stephens through what have become known as section 52 returns. is something of a one-man big society in his own right. We are reviewing all data requirements on local authorities, The hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) but we have no plans to discontinue the collection of went on about the bleak days of the 1980s. She clearly that information. I hope that that answer is helpful. got her headline because she has now legged it elsewhere. It is important that youth services are scrutinised by She mentioned Armley Juniors, which has set up a local young people. Youth mayors—there is one in youth facility in a local post office—one of the few Worthing—youth cabinets and UK Youth Parliament things to come from the previous Government’s wholesale members should scrutinise the quality of youth services. closure of the post office network. They should use their voice to challenge local authorities The Government’s policy is not about cuts, but about and the Government. I spend a lot of time with them. new and smarter ways of doing things. Just yesterday, we launched the voluntary and community sector grant The hon. Lady mentioned West Sussex and I am scheme, which encourages youth services organisations aware of the pressures on local authority budgets. In to come forward with their good ideas to get funding fact, West Sussex county council has changed the way from the Department for Education. There is a new in which it does things and the cuts will not be of the £110 million education endowment fund that will allow level that she mentioned. schools, charities, local authorities, academy sponsors I look forward to visiting the project tomorrow with and other groups to bid for funding to boost the attainment the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). The of disadvantaged pupils. There is about £470 million to national citizen service is not compensation for youth help fund key programmes, including the training of services. The funding will not come out of the Department community organisers, the creation of a new neighbourhood for Education’s funding for youth services, but will be grant programme and so on. We should look beyond completely separate. However, it does bring lessons for the headlines. new ways of doing things that can be applied to the My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon youth sector—it is about inspiring young people. We (Justin Tomlinson) is right that we should use existing are not discussing just a short summer camp, but an facilities in a smarter way. We want to use children’s experience of a lifetime at the transition to adulthood centres more out of hours and at weekends for youth that will engage and re-engage young people in their activities. We should make more use of schools and communities on an ongoing and lasting basis. Let us sports facilities that are lying idle for much of the time. not confuse it with a glorified summer camp. In my constituency, I set up a midnight football project There are many more questions, but I am running out that runs from 10 o’clock to midnight on Saturdays at a of time in which to answer them. I would be delighted leisure centre after it has closed. That is when it is not to meet the hon. Member for Bolton West. being used and when the problems happen. I will come on to the points made by the hon. Member for Bolton West, but because I have so little Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): Order. We must time I think that we will have to have a meeting. She move on to the next debate. 53WH 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Heritage Sites (Halesowen) 54WH

Heritage Sites (Halesowen) English Heritage itself has, on a number of occasions, observed the poor condition of the site, reporting “broken glass, barbed wire, bricks, pieces of steel piping, fallen 12.30 pm roof tiles and beer barrels” James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): among the reasons for a failure to open the site and as a It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship for general comment on its deterioration. English Heritage the first time today, Mr Rosindell. has also accepted that the unauthorised works that At first glance, the debate seems specific to my went on might have damaged buried archaeological constituency of Halesowen and Rowley Regis. However, artefacts. potentially wider implications regarding the role of As I said, I do not hold any personal animus towards English Heritage should become clear and might well the current owner, and it is up to the development require further investigation. control committee of the local authority to determine whether the current owner has the best intentions of People in Halesowen are proud of their cultural Halesowen at heart when it considers his planning heritage and are concerned about one particular site of application. It will be for the committee to decide historic interest, which I want to talk about in some whether the conversion of a number of abbey outbuildings detail, as it illustrates some of the wider points that I and barns into residential properties offers any improvement want to make in the debate. to the site—I understand that, last night, the most Halesowen abbey has been an intrinsic part of the recent application for the barn conversion was accepted heritage of Halesowen since it was founded nearly and passed by the development control committee. 800 years ago, in 1215. It was used as a monastery until As a result, it is absolutely imperative that English the 16th century, when it was closed down by Henry VIII. Heritage plays a proactive role in the future of the site, The site was later granted to Sir John Dudley, the Duke and that it answers some important questions about its of Northumberland, before being sold to the Lyttleton role in the future preservation and development of this family in 1558. It later descended to Lord Cobham, important historical site. What monitoring and level of who sold it to the current owner in 1993. A number of active interest will English Heritage now exercise as a impressive tiles from the abbey are now held in the consequence of the decision? Will it oversee necessary County Express British Museum. The , on Saturday archaeological work? Will it conduct impromptu site 3 August 1938, reported a major archaeological find at visits, to ensure that access is properly available? Will we the site. Many local people and the Halesowen Abbey be able to see a report of what was found during the Trust, which has been influential in looking after the development? What level of public visiting does English site, are convinced that there are other archaeological Heritage envisage in the future? deposits on the site of major historical significance. There are significant question marks over the role of The abbey is, under law, a scheduled ancient monument English Heritage in the whole saga. Supposedly, its role of national importance, which comes with certain is regularly to monitor scheduled monuments such as implications that I will touch on later. The abbey Halesowen abbey and to ensure that they are conserved was first classified with such significance in the early or enhanced if conservation work is undertaken. However, 20th century. Since 1950 it has also been a grade I listed I would question the ability of English Heritage properly building due to its special architectural and historic and regularly to monitor the sites put into its care and interest. The abbey is, evidently, not just another old its efforts to act upon any unauthorised material changes building, but rather a demonstrably iconic piece in the to historical sites such as Halesowen abbey. Halesowen historical jigsaw. At this point, Mr Rosindell, I should make you aware Concern has been expressed on decisions about the that Stonehenge has the same statutory protection as site over a long period of time. Since 1993 many local Halesowen abbey. Therefore, the role of English Heritage people and groups have expressed concern that changes at Halesowen abbey, upon which I will expand, has at the site have run roughshod over planning law and potential implications for the heritage of ancient sites local opinion in Halesowen, even choosing to ignore across the UK. and contradict the stipulations laid down by the Secretary of State in 1995, when giving scheduled monument English Heritage has had unrivalled access to Halesowen consent. At that time, rather than knocking down an abbey, through its statutory rights under law. In spite of outbuilding, as approved by the Secretary of State, an that, it took a third party, the Halesowen Abbey Trust, extension was built on to an existing building. to notice and report unauthorised works by the current owner. Indeed, the trust noticed that the works were of I have no personal animus towards the current owner “sufficient magnitude for them to be clearly visible from a considerable of the site, but several retrospective planning permissions distance outside of the scheduled area, with the naked eye”. have been applied for on multiple occasions, and local group the Halesowen Abbey Trust argues that lasting The Halesowen Abbey Trust also helpfully informed damage has been caused, for example through repeated me that English Heritage offices are based in Colmore unauthorised tipping, to this site of national significance. row, Birmingham, which is just a 20-minute bus journey As a consequence, there has been a substantial drop in away from the site in Halesowen. Such material facts the number of visitors to the site, from around 1,800 visitors call into question the ability of English Heritage, in its in one weekend alone in 1989 to the temporary ending current guise, effectively to operate and protect our of public access in 2001. Furthermore, in spite of poor national heritage, and illustrate an apparent lack of upkeep, when the site was opened for a three-day period commitment and will to protect this particular site. earlier this year, more than 500 people visited, illustrating When the first instance of unauthorised work at the the importance of the site to local people and those site occurred in 1996, English Heritage and the local from the surrounding area. council chose not to use the legal and practical means at 55WH Heritage Sites (Halesowen)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Heritage Sites (Halesowen) 56WH

[James Morris] a site? Would the Minister support a decision by English Heritage not to take action against the owner of an their disposal to seek any meaningful move to restoring historic site for breaking the law on the basis that it the site to its state before the unauthorised work. The wanted to avoid upsetting the owner? Will the Minister local authority decision was made in a particular context, consider introducing an independent review of the current which involved an attempt to take the site forward in legislation on, and role of, regulatory bodies in respect co-operation with the new owners. At the time, a number of heritage sites of national significance? of assurances were made in good faith that there would The people of Halesowen want the proper preservation be no repetition of such unauthorised works. As the and enhancement of their sites of historical interest. Minister will understand, the Halesowen Abbey Trust They are concerned by the ongoing deterioration of was somewhat surprised in 2005 when English Heritage such sites and by the apparent lack of will on the part of took the same position on further unauthorised work. public agencies to preserve them. I look forward to As far back as 1996, English Heritage wrote to the hearing from my hon. Friend, and I thank him once local press explaining that it had been unable to uphold again for being here to engage in this important debate. its statutory functions because it lacked the necessary resources. If English Heritage is saying now that it has 12.44 pm neither sufficient resources to protect our heritage from unauthorised works, nor the will to take appropriate The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, action against those undertaking such works, there are Olympics, Media and Sport (John Penrose): Let me echo some serious questions about its role and validity in this the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for case. Although English Heritage survived the recent Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris) by saying review of quangos by the Minister for the Cabinet that this is my first opportunity to serve under you on Office and Paymaster General, there is an argument one of these occasions, Mr Rosindell, and I am sure for saying that that might, in some respects, have been that it will be a pleasure. I saw you running the previous slightly fortuitous. debate with military efficiency, so I am sure that we will English Heritage has made a number of decisions make good progress in this one, too. about the abbey that could be construed, at best, as very I congratulate my hon. Friend on gaining this debate surprising and, at worst, as bizarre and lacking any and on setting out his case so clearly. He has made it credibility, and I want to give one illustration. The clear to everybody here that Halesowen has elected a current owner built an unauthorised 2.3 metre high wall doughty champion for local people, who is willing to on the site, citing the need for a flood barrier. When the fight for local issues and to take them right the way retrospective planning application was put before English to debates in the Houses of Parliament, when necessary. Heritage and the Environment Agency in October 2002, Heritage is not everybody’s cup of tea, but my hon. it was noted that the constructed wall would Friend has shown that he is willing to engage with issues “not provide any flood defence to the buildings”, right across the breadth of political discourse, and I and both bodies advised that the planning application congratulate him. should be refused. Yet just months later, in August 2003, I will endeavour to respond to my hon. Friend’s both organisations decided to approve a retrospective points one by one in order, because he asked some quite planning application on the basis that the wall would be specific questions. Before I begin that detailed response, reduced from 2.3 to 1.5 metres. That change would not however, I should say that if my hon. Friend hears of course make any material difference to the flooding anything in my response that, on further reflection and issue that was originally cited. However, the creation of after discussion with local constituents, he wants to the wall leaves the monument and its setting damaged in come back to me on, I am of course at his disposal. He perpetuity. can write to me, or we can have a conversation, if there Halesowen abbey is not the only heritage site that is are any points to follow up after the debate. being poorly maintained in my constituency. The Ice It might be helpful if I give a small amount of house, which was built in the late 18th century and background about the site. My hon. Friend rightly said which is located in close proximity to Halesowen abbey, that it is quite a complicated site. On frequent occasions, was given grade II listed building status last year. However, it has been quite messy, and all sorts of different layers it has been vandalised on a number of occasions, and of usage have built up during its long history. Most little has been done to protect and maintain it. Although recently, it has been quite a hard-working agricultural Halesowen has a long history of heritage, there are few area, so the site has been used as a farmyard and a sites, and residents in Halesowen and the surrounding working area for quite some time. He is therefore right area are rightly concerned and angry about the deterioration that the site has been messy, but he will understand that of a number of them and want action to be taken. although everyone would obviously like all parts of the Constituents have written to me, and others have spoken country to be beautiful, gorgeous and well maintained, to me directly, to express their unhappiness. I am therefore the important issue from the point of view of English grateful that the Minister is here to address some of my Heritage and the Government is whether the heritage points, and I have some specific questions for him. has been damaged for future generations and whether What ability and competence does English Heritage the public has access, albeit messy access. Those are the have in terms of upholding laws and regulations relating crucial points that he is driving at, and I shall try to to ancient and historical monuments such as Halesowen confine my remarks to the thrust of his questions. abbey and surrounding sites? Would a significant change My hon. Friend asked some quite specific questions to an historic site, such as the conversion of nearby about the controls that English Heritage may or may outbuildings to residential use, represent a material not exercise with regard to the development process. As deterioration, conservation or an enhancement to such he said, the local authority, in its planning authority 57WH Heritage Sites (Halesowen)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Heritage Sites (Halesowen) 58WH role, gave permission just yesterday for the proposed I shall come on to answer some of his questions developments to go ahead. He is absolutely right that about developments to the site that were made without English Heritage will expect to maintain quite close planning permission and that needed retrospective planning scrutiny of the development process for a monument of permission. I hope that my answer to my hon. Friend’s this importance and seniority to make sure that it is not question about controls over the development process harmed and that the development goes as planned and and how English Heritage is planning to engage with does not depart from the original plans. those—and the fact that I am going to ask English Where such developments take place, the requirements Heritage to write to him with a list of how it is going to are very specific to each individual site, so I shall ask do that—will help to address both his concerns and English Heritage to write my hon. Friend a letter detailing those of local people. In the unlikely event that English precisely how it plans to engage with the development Heritage does not live up to what it plans to do on that process in this case. If I describe generalities, that might site during the development process, I am sure that he not necessarily do the trick for this specific site, which and the trust will be on its case and will contact me as will have its own idiosyncrasies. However, if I ask necessary to ensure that there is no slippage or backsliding. English Heritage to write to my hon. Friend to lay out To pick up on the final point I was making in answer precisely how it plans to engage with this process, he to the last question, it is better to have a living building will have something in black and white, and he will be that is being used in a sustainable fashion, provided that able to check whether it is being done. Equally, constituents that is done sympathetically to the heritage asset concerned, and the Halesowen Abbey Trust will know what to than something that is unused and not cared for, that expect from English Heritage, so that they can make does not attract investment, and that is therefore unlikely sure that the development process is being conducted to be maintained. That is something that we find across sympathetically and in a controlled fashion. I am sure the country. that my hon. Friend, his constituents and I would all Last week I was lucky enough to visit some of the agree that that will be essential over the coming weeks new developments taking place by King’s Cross station and months as the development process moves forward. in north London, where a number of listed buildings My hon. Friend asked whether the Government believe are being incorporated into some stunning modern that a significant change to an historic site, such as the architecture. There is a wonderful juxtaposition of old conversion of nearby outbuildings for residential use, and new; it is being done very carefully with a great deal represented a material deterioration, conservation or an of respect for the heritage assets. The future of those enhancement to the site in question. That is a tremendously heritage assets will be hugely improved as a result of important question generally and in the specific case of being brought back into use in a modern way. I hope this site. It is undoubtedly true that any change or that is a clear answer to my hon. Friend’s original development can constitute a risk to a site of heritage question. importance. However, it is also true that sympathetic development, when done correctly, can be the saving of My hon. Friend asked whether the Government would an awful lot of such sites. In general, English Heritage, support a decision by English Heritage not to prosecute other heritage bodies up and down the country and the the owner of an historic site for breaking the law, on the Department for Culture, Media and Sport have found basis that it wanted to avoid upsetting the owner. He that it is far better to have a sympathetic site owner or mentioned the case of the flood wall, but I understand manager, and a site that is in continuous use with a that there have been other, smaller cases, too. I understand sustainable use going forward. That is simply because it that English Heritage did consider prosecution and then has a continuing purpose and is likely to be invested took the case to the Crown Prosecution Service, which in as necessary, to ensure that the new and historical indicated it would not be prepared to take forward the structures are well maintained. prosecution of Mr Tudor for the unauthorised works. That is not to say that it is never right to prosecute. In James Morris: I totally understand the point that my fact, English Heritage has prosecuted in the past, though hon. Friend makes, but in this case there has been a lot not frequently because the cost is very high and, technically, of evidence over a long time of a lack of confidence on achieving a positive result in court in these cases is hard. the part of the local community and, in particular, the However, it has happened, and successfully. I do not Halesowen Abbey Trust, in the will to make the necessary think that there is any theoretical or practical obstacle changes and ensure that, where there is controlled to doing so, but it happens rarely. development, it is done in a way that is suitable for the Given that the CPS said it was reluctant to take the site and preserves its potential archaeological interest. case forward because it felt that there was a low probability John Penrose: I thank my hon. Friend for that of success, I think English Heritage’s approach of saying intervention. As I understand it, the plans that have just that it needed to work constructively with the owner been approved were originally developed a couple of was probably the best opportunity in that specific option. years ago, starting in 2008, in full consultation with That does not mean that it should not come down hard English Heritage. It had extensive input into those on examples of bad behaviour. On occasions, it is plans and has indicated that it is comfortable with how necessary, as the French said of the English Navy, to the plans will treat the monument and the listed remains. hang an admiral pour encourager les autres. It is important Of course, the question is not just whether the plans to make it clear that there is a line in the sand beyond are sympathetically drawn up, and whether the intention which people should not go. The principle is clear and is is to use sensible materials that will frame the heritage as my hon. Friend describes. parts of the site in an impressive and academically My hon. Friend’s final question was whether we acceptable way, but whether those plans will genuinely should introduce an independent review to check on the be delivered, as the development process goes through. ability of English Heritage to uphold laws and regulations. I take my hon. Friend’s point on that. I think that English Heritage is held in pretty high 59WH Heritage Sites (Halesowen) 23 NOVEMBER 2010 60WH

[John Penrose] Education Policies (Warrington North) regard across the wider heritage community, if I can put it that way, although obviously no organisation is perfect. 1pm A lot of people, including within English Heritage, Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): It is a great would say that they wanted it to improve in a number of pleasure, Mr Rosindell, to serve under your chairmanship. ways. However, English Heritage, among others, also It is a pleasure, also, to see the Minister in his place; he agrees that in the wake of the comprehensive spending and I used to serve on the Select Committee for Education review, like any other part of the public sector, it has to and I know that he has a genuine interest in education. I do more with less. At the moment it is busy re-organising hope that he will take seriously what I am about to say. in order to become more efficient and is cutting its cloth to fit, in the same way that everybody else has to. It is I welcome the opportunity to discuss the impact that not pleasant or fun, but it has to make do, and is doing the Government’s education policies are having, and so professionally. will continue to have, on my constituency. In truth, however, the Government’s decisions and their cuts to It is clear that, once the dust has settled, English the education budget will seriously hamper the life Heritage will have to look at some of its current processes— chances of many young people in my constituency, for example, the listings process—to work out how to especially the poorest. perform those statutory tasks in a way that is more efficient, faster and cheaper, while at the same time The borough of Warrington does not rank high in ensuring that it provides the important protection of the indices of deprivation. It contains some affluent heritage assets that my hon. Friend and I have been areas, but it also contains areas of multiple deprivation. debating. Many of the poorest wards in the borough are in my constituency—indeed, they are among the most deprived James Morris: Again, I understand the point that my in Cheshire—and it is those areas that are now being hon. Friend makes. Will he emphasise to English Heritage hit. the importance of sites in areas such as Halesowen? If The cuts began with the Government’s decision to one mentions Halesowen heritage outside of Halesowen, cancel the Building Schools for the Future project. As a people do not realise the rich tapestry of culture and result, two schools in my constituency—William Beamont heritage that there is there and in other areas of the high school and Lysander high school—saw their hopes black country. English Heritage should prioritise and of new buildings disappear rapidly over the horizon. give thought to the importance of monuments in places We opened one new school in my constituency under that are not typically thought of as traditional areas of the BSF project. It was Culcheth high school, and I English heritage. went to the opening in the autumn. It is a fantastic building, and it will enhance the opportunity for teaching John Penrose: I am happy to do so. My hon. Friend and learning in the area, as well as providing more has touched on an important point, because heritage facilities for the community. It is so good that Warrington’s assets are wrongly viewed as a crumbling piece of an cabinet executive member for education, Councillor awkward obstacle to development. In most communities, Sheila Woodyatt, called it the best thing to happen to they are rightly seen as huge assets from which the Culcheth in 100 years—and she is a Conservative. It is community can benefit. They make each community sad that some of the more deprived areas in my constituency distinct and different, and keep us in touch with our will not have the same opportunities. local past. In many cases they are great sources of tourism income, too. I agree completely that there are a The BSF project was cancelled without properly assessing lot of opportunities there. the need to rebuild in certain areas. Indeed, I asked the To conclude, English Heritage knows that it has to Department what assessment it had made of the need react to the recent comprehensive spending review by for rebuilding at a number of schools in my constituency, becoming more efficient, in the same way as many other but it took a long time to answer. I asked the question in bodies in the public sector. It is starting that remodelling, July; I received the answer on 26 October. The answer and I expect it to go a great deal further over the next made it clear that no real assessment of need had been months. I hope it will do so in a way that will please my made before cancellation, yet BSF would have given us hon. Friend. In the meantime, I will ask it to write to £80 million to rebuild Warrington’s schools. That sum him with the details of how it proposes to protect this would have enabled the rebuilding of William Beamont site. high school and modernised Lysander high school. Those schools serve some of the most deprived areas in the borough. They serve wards where many have low Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): Order. The sitting is incomes, and where an increasing number of people are suspended until 1 o’clock. unemployed. Above all, they serve areas where many have no qualifications, yet those schools have done a 12.58 pm fantastic job in increasing aspiration and improving Sitting suspended. educational outcomes. William Beamont is a specialist sports college with a second specialism in IT. Lysander high school is another specialist school. William Beamont has increased the number of children getting five good GCSEs; it has cut its exclusion rate, and it has increased attendance. Lysander school has exceeded its targets for improving its GCSE results, and it has also exceeded the council’s targets. 61WH Education Policies (Warrington 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Education Policies (Warrington 62WH North) North) They did all those things in old and unsuitable buildings. real difference to participation rates in education; £10, I ask the Minister to imagine what could be done if they £20 or £30 may not seem much to some, but it allows had decent, up-to-date facilities. the poorer families in my constituency to pay bus fares Facilities matter. Conservative members of Warrington to college, gives young people money to buy lunch and borough council know that they matter. When the BSF is has helped some to buy stationery and other things project was announced, Councillor Woodyatt told the that they need for their courses. Those are all things that Warrington Guardian that she welcomed the difference the poorer families find difficult to purchase. that it would make not only to teachers and pupils but Reducing that allowance will make a real difference to the community. Her allies, the Liberal Democrats— to participation rates in education, because the money Warrington, too, has a Conservative-Liberal coalition— has worked during the past few years; it has increased trumpeted about the BSF money in their newsletter, the number of students staying on and the number of saying that students in my constituency who go into higher education. “substantial sums of money have been secured to modernise our The number of students in my constituency going into schools”. higher education rose by more than half in the 10 years They did not say then that it was not necessary, and from 1999 to 2009. they did not foresee any problems. They were glad of it. It seems that we will get in return a fund that will be Now, however, those schools will have to bid again for used by head teachers and principals. I have tried asking money from a much-reduced capital spending pot. the Government what the criteria will be for the allocation The Government’s criteria in the Treasury’s Green of that money and I cannot find out. In the last Education Book for allocating that money are clear; they are questions, I asked whether head teachers had been population growth and modernisation. Deprivation is consulted about this change and the Minister for Further not mentioned anywhere. We know that population Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning was terribly growth will lead to a bulge in primary school pupil courteous, but he just did not answer my question. He numbers, which will necessitate the spending of more also did not tell me whether there would be an appeals money. The Government also want to spend money on process. So we do not know how that money will be free schools and academies, thus depleting the pot even allocated and it seems that we are moving from a system more. The Warrington schools will be bidding for money in which people receive money according to their from a reduced pot, but experience shows that many of income—as of right—to a type of “Lady Bountiful” those that have already been given the go-ahead are system, in which money will be dished out by head receiving only 40% of what they expected. That is a teachers. Actually, I doubt that many head teachers huge slap in the face for the poorer communities in want to do that. Warrington. What we do know is that the Government will be saving more than £500 million on the EMA, but they David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Will the will be allocating only £150 million to the new scheme. hon. Lady give way? That means a huge reduction in the cash available to the poorest students. Although the Government tell us that Helen Jones: I am sorry, but I have limited time and they want to increase participation and staying-on rates, the hon. Gentleman did not seek my permission to they will the ends without willing the means. participate in the debate. At Warrington Collegiate in my constituency, 61% of The BSF cuts are not the only problem faced by students aged between 16 and 18 are in receipt of EMA Warrington schools. As I said, those two schools are and a third of the intake is from areas of multiple specialist schools, yet specialist funding has been stopped. deprivation. Warrington Collegiate strongly fears that William Beamont is part of the school sports partnership, removing EMA will mean fewer students coming through which hugely increased the number of young people the college. taking part in sport in Warrington. That funding, too, is Warrington Collegiate also faces another cut in its to be axed. budget. It is clear from the comprehensive spending As for the overall settlement, we foresee further problems. review that the unit costs for 16 to 19-year-olds will be The Government are keen to tell us that they are to reduced. Warrington Collegiate does not yet know how increase spending on schools by 0.1% each year. However, that reduction will feed through into its budget. It that takes no account of the fact that the pupil premium, expects a cut of at least 3%. May I repeat that those which we were told would be extra, is included in that 16 to 19-year-olds are the very people whom the settlement. It is not extra money. It also fails to recognise Government say they want to keep in education? that the growth in pupil numbers will mean a reduction in spending per pupil over the next four years. To add insult to injury, the university of Chester, which has a large campus in Warrington, has seen Those schools will be left in unsuitable buildings, 88.5% of its teaching funding go. That is all the teaching with a decreasing amount of money per pupil. They funding for group C and group D courses, and probably will also have to suffer the problems caused by council half the funding for group B courses. The university cuts. Services that they used to receive from local councils estimates that to fill that gap it will have to charge fees are gradually being reduced, and they will have to of £7,000. The university is vital to Warrington and its purchase them elsewhere. I give one example; the council economic development and to the development of the is already considering withdrawing IT support for schools. Omega site, which is a huge employment creation site in That would give rise to further problems. my constituency. The university of Chester has done I turn to the Government’s decision on the education tremendous work with schools to increase aspirations maintenance allowance. Almost 2,000 young people in and to get more young people from families where no Warrington receive the EMA. That money has made a one has been to university before to enter higher education. 63WH Education Policies (Warrington 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Education Policies (Warrington 64WH North) North) [Helen Jones] the Committee together. I always enjoyed working with her on the various reports that the Committee produced The results of this decision to cut funding could be and I have listened very carefully to her comments very serious indeed for the courses that are provided at today. the Warrington campus such as courses in creative In Warrington, the attainment of children and young industries, business, media and sport. It is fashionable people across each key stage is consistently above, or to sniff at those courses, but the Minister knows as well well above, the national average. For example, the proportion as I do that most of the graduates from those courses of 16-year-olds in Warrington achieving five or more actually get jobs. It will be a very serious matter for GCSEs at grades A* to C was 10% higher than the young people in my constituency if they can no longer national level or the level in similar local authority gain access to that facility. areas. In effect, what we are seeing is a triple whammy. I have no time today to go into the axing of the programmes Helen Jones: I am sorry to interrupt the Minister for rebuilding special schools in my constituency, or before he gets into his stride—he is very generous in what will happen with the reduction in school support giving way. However, does he accept that those figures staff, or the further reductions in council services. However, mask huge disparities within the borough and that, we have seen the building programme cut, we are seeing although schools in deprived areas have taken tremendous funding cut and we are seeing support for students cut. strides, there is still a disparity between the more affluent The impact of those cuts on the poorest wards and the areas and the poorer areas? poorest families in my constituency cannot be overestimated. The Government tell us that we are all “in this together”, Mr Gibb: Yes—I was coming on to that point. I was but these are the very people who do not have the not citing those figures as a reason not to take action; I resources to replace that funding. merely wanted to point out what has been achieved in Warrington already. I say to the Minister that that is wrong on two counts. First, it is wrong economically. We all know that in the In 2009, the proportion of 11-year-olds in Warrington future unskilled jobs will start to disappear, and that the achieving expected levels of attainment in both English future of this country is in producing a skilled and and maths was 77%, compared to 72% in all schools in educated population. We cannot underbid other countries England. However, as the hon. Lady intimated, within in wages all the time; we have to gain on skills. Without Warrington, as in many other areas of the country, education provision, however, our skills will not improve. performance varies significantly from school to school. There are excellent schools in Warrington, as there are Secondly, it is wrong morally. “Morally” is not a many excellent schools nationally, but it is also the case word that we often use in Parliament, but I believe that that too many schools are still struggling or coasting. these cuts are wrong morally. It is morally wrong to The results at national level and the large gaps in penalise our poorest communities and our poorest families performance between different groups of pupils are why in this way. we believe urgent reform is needed. I know that the Minister is a decent man and that he It is the Government’s ambition to raise academic has a real concern for underprivileged students in education. standards in all this country’s schools to ensure a high- I hope that he will listen to the case that I—along with quality education for all children, particularly those many others in their own communities—am making, from poorer backgrounds. The Government’s key objective because if we do not get changes in this policy what will is to close that attainment gap between those from the happen is very simple. Fewer of our young people will wealthiest backgrounds and those from the poorest stay on in education; fewer will go into higher education, backgrounds. We therefore share the hon. Lady’s aim and this country will suffer for many years ahead as a that she set out in her remarks. Education is key to result. Young people are our most precious resource. social mobility—indeed, in my opinion it is the only We ought to be caring for and husbanding that resource, route to social mobility. That is why we announced rather than chopping it off. yesterday our focus on ensuring that every child has There used to be a slogan among the teaching unions—I mastered the basic skill of decoding and reading words think that it was used at the time of the last Tory by the end of the second year of primary school, Government—that, “If you think education’s expensive, through a light-touch screening check. try ignorance”. I think that we are in danger of trying That is why we also sought to put onto the statute ignorance. The people in my constituency whom I have book the Academies Act 2010, to enable us to expand talked about today will suffer hugely as a result, and the academies programme, with 144 new academies I hope that the Minister will give the facts that I have having opened since the start of the academic year. outlined serious consideration. That Act for the first time enables primary and special schools to become academies and to enjoy the greater 1.16 pm freedoms that academy status brings. The Minister of State, Department for Education David Mowat: I am interested in what the Minister is (Mr Nick Gibb): It is a pleasure to serve under your saying about social mobility. Does he recognise that in chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. the past decade, we as a nation have slipped from fourth I congratulate the hon. Member for Warrington North to 14th in science teaching and from eighth to 24th in (Helen Jones) on securing the debate. I know that she mathematics teaching? The impact of that will have has been a tremendous champion of education, not been felt in Warrington. Those statistics are a damning only in Warrington but nationally, having served for indictment of our ability to be socially mobile. Science, many years on the Select Committee on Education. As technology, engineering and maths, more than anything she kindly said, for some of those years we served on else, will provide jobs and skills for the future. 65WH Education Policies (Warrington 23 NOVEMBER 2010 Education Policies (Warrington 66WH North) North) Mr Gibb: My hon. Friend makes a good point. I the council and the head teachers of several schools know that he has been campaigning in Warrington for that have been affected. I know that she is to attend that his schools, and I congratulate him on his work, as I meeting as well, to represent the schools in her constituency. congratulate the hon. Lady on hers. On his point, that is In determining which projects would go ahead and why we are considering the national curriculum with which would cease, the Government developed a single the intention of restoring it to its intended purpose of set of criteria and applied it nationally. The three types providing a minimum core entitlement built around of school project allowed to continue were: those projects subject discipline. It is also why we are enabling parents, that were part of their area’s initial BSF schemes and teachers and other education providers to set up free had reached financial close; the so-called sample projects schools, so parents have a real choice for their children. that were part of their area’s initial BSF schemes, where Good school buildings, though, are part of that financial close had not been reached but a preferred package. School buildings need continuing investment, bidder had been appointed at close of dialogue; and but it is vital that future spending represents the best some planned school projects in addition to a local possible value for money. Building Schools for the authority’s initial scheme. Future was an important programme of the previous As the hon. Lady will know, Warrington formally Administration, which aimed to rebuild or refurbish entered the BSF programme in February 2010. As every one of our 3,500 secondary schools by 2023. That Warrington did not have any sample schemes or an was a bold and impressive ambition, but unfortunately outline business case approved before 1 January 2010, the programme has failed spectacularly to live up to the the Warrington scheme was stopped. I recognise that hype. During five years of the programme, just 263 schools those areas close to the cut-off point for BSF, including have benefited. The number of schools completely rebuilt the hon. Lady’s constituency, might find that extremely under the programme is even smaller: just 136. That is a frustrating and upsetting, and I am acutely aware that very small number for such a grand ambition. stopping the BSF programmes for schools in her Where BSF has delivered, it has been at exorbitant constituency has, understandably, caused dismay among cost. As has been pointed out, rebuilding a school students, teachers and parents. However, it is important under BSF has turned out to be three times more to remember that the end of BSF does not mean the expensive than constructing a commercial building and end of capital spending on schools. Money will still be twice as expensive as building a school in Ireland, while spent on school buildings, but it is imperative, as my the BSF budget has grown from £45 billion to £55 billion hon. Friend pointed out, that that money is spent on and the time scale has increased from 10 years to a school infrastructure and buildings, not on the process, projected 18. Some of the reasons for the additional especially if we are to meet increasing demand for cost and delay are understandable, but the fact remains school places over the coming years as the birth rate that BSF had become a vast and confusing morass of rises. process and cost by the time it was ended, and it To correct the hon. Lady, cash per pupil is per-pupil represented extremely poor value for money. Some cash. Funding for schools will be maintained at the £60 million of the £250 million spent on BSF was same amount of cash per pupil, so schools’ expanding frittered away on consultants and advisory costs before pupil population will not affect it. On top of that, the a brick had even been laid. pupil premium will come from outside the schools budget, meaning that over four years, spending on David Mowat: The Minister might be aware that the schools will rise in real terms. average cost of bidding for a BSF project was about £1 million, which is approximately the cost of a new Helen Jones: Will the Minister confirm that the pupil primary school. Does that not say all that there is to be premium is included in the 0.1% increase and is not said about the waste implicit in the programme? Everybody extra money? That is what the figures say that I have wants more and better schools. Two schools in my seen. constituency, Sir Thomas Boteler and Penketh high schools, desperately need refurbishment, but that must Mr Gibb: Yes. The £2.5 billion is what enables us to be done cost-effectively, not while frittering away money deliver real-terms increases across the schools budget. as BSF did. We appointed a review to consider how capital spending will be allocated in future. The hon. Lady discussed the Mr Gibb: That is where we want the money to go: not Green Book allocation process; we will be considering on consultants, but on refurbishment and bricks. the new basis on which scarce resources will be allocated. Nobody comes into politics to cut funding, least of We appointed Sebastian James to conduct a root-and- all a new Government who have inherited a school branch review of all capital investment in schools, sixth-form system that we are worried lets down too many of its colleges and other services for which the Department is pupils. However, we are faced with a £156 billion budget responsible. The review is due to report back at the end deficit, and it is our responsibility—difficult and painful of December. It will consider how best to meet parental though it might be—to tackle that problem. Although demand, make design and procurement cost-effective we have announced the end of the BSF programme, and efficient, and overhaul the allocation and targeting that does not mean the end of capital spending on of capital. That will give us the means to ensure that schools. future decisions on capital spending are based on actual The hon. Lady will be aware that my hon. Friend the need and that all schools provide an environment that Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) has supports high-quality education. organised a meeting with my noble Friend Lord Hill at Given the fact that the review is still in progress, I am the Department for Education to make the case for sure that the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend will understand Warrington schools. Also present will be the leader of that I cannot make any specific commitments today on 67WH Education Policies (Warrington 23 NOVEMBER 2010 68WH North) [Mr Gibb] Dartford Crossing (Congestion) how much money will be allocated or exactly when. However, I assure them that the Department will continue 1.30 pm to make capital allocations on the basis of need, in Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): I am pleased to particular on dilapidation and deprivation, and that the open the debate and to have secured a discussion on the end of BSF does not therefore mean the end of school biggest local issue facing Dartford. As the time allowed building. for the debate is short, I will try to cover as many points as I can and, with your leave, Mr Rosindell, I will take David Mowat: Does the Minister agree that this week’s interventions, about which I have spoken to the Minister. announcement by Councillor Woodyatt, who has been Of course, I will also leave time for the Minister to mentioned extensively in this debate, of a new primary respond. school in Warrington North, Oakwood avenue, is an example of the fact that capital spending is continuing? Hon. Members will know that the Dartford crossing Not everything has been stopped by the hiatus in BSF. is probably the most congested part of the country’s motorway network. Tailbacks regularly stretch for miles on both the Kent and Essex sides of the crossing and Mr Gibb: Again, my hon. Friend makes a worthwhile cause delay and misery for motorists. The crossing is a intervention, for which I am grateful. Capital spending scar on the face of Dartford. When a problem exists by is being conducted, and several hundred schools are the crossing, local roads in Dartford also become congested continuing work under the BSF programme. with motorists trying to find alternative routes. The The hon. Lady spoke about the education maintenance crossing should open up Dartford and encourage businesses allowance. I acknowledge that evidence from the pilots to base themselves in the area; instead, it holds it back shows that the EMA was successful, in its early days, in and strangles commerce. A continuation of the status encouraging young people to stay in education. The quo is not an option for the Dartford crossing. decision to end the scheme will be disappointing to many young people, but I do not believe that anyone Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I will have to drop out of education as a consequence. congratulate my hon. Friend not only on securing the Already, 96% of 16-year-olds and 94% of 17-year-olds debate, but on the passionate way he has fought for the participate in education, employment or training. Attitudes issue with different agencies over the years. I applaud to staying in education post-16 have changed. We are his commitment to that. He mentioned Dartford being committed to going further still and attaining full affected by the crossing, but does he also agree that it participation by all young people up to the age of 18 by affects constituencies around Dartford in terms of 2015. businesses, people travelling and holiday makers? It is However, a payment designed as an incentive to stay absolutely vital for the whole of the south-east that we on is no longer the right way to ensure that those facing get this right. real financial barriers to continuing their education get the support that they need. We must reconsider the Gareth Johnson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for most effective way to support the most vulnerable young his comments. I totally agree with him. The issue affects people to stay on in education. There is evidence that the whole of the Thames Gateway area—not least the EMA has helped a small number of young people Gillingham and Rainham, which are particularly pertinent stay on, but the same evidence suggests that the scheme to him. It is essential that we tackle congestion on the has a significant dead-weight cost. Pilot evidence throughout Dartford crossing in order to open up the whole area the scheme and more recent research from the National and allow business to flourish across the Thames Gateway Foundation for Educational Research found that almost network. 90% of young people receiving the EMA believe that they still would have participated in their courses if they I am pleased that the Minister shares my view that a had not received it. continuation of the status quo is not an option for the Dartford crossing. Although we may disagree on some The EMA is a hugely expensive programme, costing issues regarding the crossing, I pay tribute to his work more than £560 million a year, £36 million of which is on tackling the problem. His positive, can-do attitude administration. Of course we do not want any young to dealing with the problem has led to more progress on person to drop out of education due to financial difficulty, the issue during the six months he has been the relevant but we cannot justify continuing to fund a programme Minister than in the whole of the last 13 years. His so expensive and poorly targeted. Currently, a discretionary determination to remove the toll booths, which ultimately learner support fund gives £25 million a year to schools, cause the congestion, is to be welcomed. I have noticed colleges and training providers to enable payments to that each time a difficulty with removing the toll booths be made to young people to help them meet the cost of has been presented to him, he has not simply thrown the their education. Colleges value the fund and are happy papers away and given up on the notion of removing to play Lady Bountiful, as the hon. Lady said, by the booths; instead, he has sought to find a solution handing out the money to the young people whom they that tackles that problem. consider to be most in need. They can also respond to changes in students’ household income during the year. I want to make it clear that the tolls on the Dartford After the EMA is abolished, the fund will be increased crossing should be scrapped in their entirety. That is significantly over the spending review period. The detail what was promised to the residents of Dartford by the of future arrangements is still being considered. previous Government. We were told that the tolls would be scrapped when the bridge had been paid for. That happened in 2003, yet the tolls remain. Today, I call on the Minister to scrap the tolls completely. 69WH Dartford Crossing (Congestion)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Dartford Crossing (Congestion) 70WH

Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): I welcome the Department for Transport’s confirmation I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important that the previous Government’s announcement of the debate. He and the Minister will be well aware that I am privatisation of the crossing will not take place. We have also in favour of scrapping the tolls on the crossing. overturned the previous Labour Government’s policy There has been a betrayal of what we were initially told of selling off the Dartford crossing. If the Labour party about the bridge being free when it has paid for itself. had won the last general election, the crossing would However, I appreciate that we are currently in a tough have been sold to a private company and we would have financial and economic situation. Congestion is a real lost control over the levying of charges on the motorist. issue in my borough of Bexley and for my constituents Perhaps that is why there are not too many Labour MPs of Bexleyheath and Crayford, as well for businesses and in this Chamber championing this cause. The local residents of other constituencies. I therefore endorse resident discount scheme has financially helped some what my hon. Friend says. Does he agree that we should local residents who are frequent users of the crossing, pursue more radical solutions with the Minister, such as but the initial outlay for the DART-Tag has put off removing the toll booths, and that we should also local residents who use the crossing only occasionally. consider the more effective use of free-flow technology by promoting and developing the DART-Tag scheme Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): My further? hon. Friend knows that I share his long-term desire for the removal of tolls on the Dartford crossing. However, Gareth Johnson: I totally agree with my hon. Friend’s he will also be aware of the enormous sense of unfairness comments. I am fully aware of the problems that felt by many people in north Kent, who do not qualify Bexleyheath and Crayford suffer as a result of the for the resident discount scheme. Does he not agree that congestion at the Dartford crossing. The No. 1 challenge if the tolls are to stay in the foreseeable future, the local is to remove the booths themselves, because they are the discount scheme should be extended to neighbouring cause of congestion on the crossing. The tailbacks authorities, such as Medway? emanate from the booths and, without them, there would be a dramatic improvement in—and perhaps Gareth Johnson: My hon. Friend has championed even the eradication of—the congestion on the Dartford that cause for the residents of Chatham and Aylesford crossing that causes problems in Bexleyheath, Crayford for a considerable time, and I pay tribute to the work and, of course, Dartford, Thurrock and the surrounding that she put into the issue. I am pleased that she shares areas. my view that, ultimately, the solution to the problem is the removal of the tolls. Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): My understanding is that by introducing free-flow technology, of course, I hope that there is some scope to expand the local there would be an increase in capacity on the crossing. persons discount scheme. I am pleased to note that, However, that would give only a one-off increase of although the scheme has some limitations, it is likely to approximately 20%. In recent years, the volume of traffic apply to the proposed increases in the tolls. The introduction using the crossing has increased exponentially. Does my of the scheme coincided with an increase in the toll hon. Friend agree that ultimately we need an additional from £1 to £1.50, which left many more motorists crossing somewhere else on the Thames to enable traffic needing change. The highways authority has informed to be diverted from the M25 on to another crossing? me that it has had to remove some of the automated toll booths to allow for that, which of course has increased Gareth Johnson: I am grateful for that intervention. the length of the queues and led to the dreadful congestion In principle, I accept that there should be a further we see today. It is no advantage to a local person who crossing over the Thames. The big issue is, of course, receives a discount if they have to wait in a queue for where that crossing should be. It is a classic case of three hours to get it. nimbyism. I do not think anyone here would hold their Removing the booths and replacing them with modern hand up and ask for a further crossing to be placed in technology to levy a charge on motorists would remove their constituency. Doing so would add further congestion the two worst aspects of the crossing, the congestion and difficulties to the particular areas that we represent. and the pollution, but it would not remove the costs. Finding a location for an extra crossing over the Thames Local businesses have told me that the congestion is the area is problematic and will be the biggest challenge of worst problem for them. They can budget for the cost of all in trying to ensure that we have greater capacity for using the crossing, but they cannot budget for the vehicles to get across the Thames. unpredictable nature of the congestion. We have recently had an announcement that the price of the tolls should be increased. I cannot accept that Jackie Doyle-Price: I endorse that point on behalf of extra levy on the motorist, who is feeling fairly beleaguered businesses in my constituency. The cost of congestion is in this particular part of the country. At the general really adding to the cost of doing business, and at a time election, I said that unlike my predecessor I would never when we want to see expansion in south Essex, that is vote to keep the tolls on the Dartford crossing and that unacceptable. We really need to grip that problem. I would only vote to scrap them. I meant that. The Transport Act 2000 was supported by Labour MPs and Gareth Johnson: Members will be aware that the area opposed by Conservative MPs. That piece of legislation of Thurrock that is closest to the crossing is an industrial allowed the tolls to continue and, ironically, changed area, and the same is true in some parts of Dartford. We them from a toll to a form of congestion charge. I say have the Crossways boulevard, which is as area of “ironically”because the tolls actually cause the congestion industrial strength, but it could be so much better were on the crossing. In this case, the congestion charge itself it not for the congestion. For the reasons to which my is responsible for causing the congestion. hon. Friend alluded and the potential benefit for businesses 71WH Dartford Crossing (Congestion)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Dartford Crossing (Congestion) 72WH

[Gareth Johnson] I am determined, with the Secretary of State’s permission, to do everything we can to alleviate that congestion and in Dartford, I believe that local businesses will welcome pollution. We have not had enough time to debate the the Minister’s proposals and the removal of the booths pollution, but on both sides of the river it is blighting themselves, which should lead ultimately to the removal the lives of many constituents. Visitors to the country of the congestion. are also affected, as 20% of all heavy goods vehicles The congestion at the Dartford crossing has united travelling north through both bores are foreign. The Dartford against the current toll booths system. Local crossing is the lifeblood of the country’s economy. It is people despise the impact that it has had on the area, as invariably how traffic gets from the south to the north. we have had nothing but misery, congestion and pollution We have looked carefully at the situation in these as a result. The local media have played their part in difficult times. I fully respect the position of hon. Members lobbying for the congestion to be tackled. The Dartford who have campaigned over the years to have the previous Times has had a “Stop the Toll”campaign, the Dartford Government’s promise to remove the tolls honoured. Messenger has had the “Axe the Tax” campaign, and However, we are in really difficult economic times, and the News Shopper has also campaigned hard on the the £17 million a year gross revenue that the tolls take in matter. They are all correct to do so, because I believe is an important part of the money available for the that the only complete solution to the enormous problem infrastructure and transport network for the whole is for the tolls to be scrapped entirely. country. I know that the matter is really personal for The Minister’s proposals are a vast improvement on those in that part of the world, but it is a piece of the current situation. They will ensure that there need national infrastructure, and the Transport Act 2000 be no more congestion at the Dartford crossing than specifically states that the net value of the tolls should anywhere else on the M25. The previous Government be used in transport infrastructure. It is one of the few did absolutely nothing about the congestion at the hypothecated sources of revenue that we have. Dartford crossing. We had 13 years of inaction. They I will outline quickly what we have done in the short introduced a local discount scheme, but although it time we have been able to address a situation that has lowered costs, it increased congestion. They announced been going on for years. The first thing we asked was a plan to sell off the whole crossing. It is yet another whether it is right in the 21st century to delay people, mess that we have inherited and that we are trying to sometimes for hours, when we expect them to pay a fee resolve. It is a problem that has been ignored for the to use a crossing. When the tolls are causing the problem past 13 years, a problem with which I am pleased that and the resulting tailbacks become unacceptably long, we are now beginning to get to grips. we have been releasing the toll charge. In other words, we have lifted the barriers at those times and people are 1.43 pm not being charged. There is currently no guidance on how long the tailbacks have to be before we do that, so The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport we hope to have a protocol in place in the new year so (Mike Penning): It is a pleasure and an honour to serve that people will know exactly what that distance will be. under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Rosindell. What an ironic coincidence it is that you are chairing a That is just an interim measure, because we all know debate on a matter that is so important in your constituency, that the way to address the congestion and pollution is a part of the world that I know well. I know that the to have free flow charging. For the foreseeable future we correct protocol for Ministers, quite rightly, is to address will have to impose a toll, so how do we minimise the the Chamber when speaking on behalf of the Government, effect on the user while recouping the income? Fantastically, but it will be quite difficult to do so as the Opposition the congestion charge uses vehicle number plate recognition, Benches are completely empty. I apologise if I have to and it works well. We intend to use that technology to turn my back to Members who are present for this remove the barriers at the north and south of the important debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the crossing. Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) on being so The toll booths are what is really holding up the persistent about the matter, and on securing the debate. traffic. As we heard earlier in the debate, the delays are It is a shame that it is only a half-hour debate, as I know actually being caused by people trying to find change, that colleagues on this side of the Chamber would have not realising that they have to pay, or losing their liked to spend more time debating the issues that are so DART-Tag. If we remove the toll booths altogether so relevant to their constituents. that people can drive across the bridge or through the In the short time I have been a Minister, I have bores, that delay will be removed. Although we are encountered few issues that raise as much local and looking at whether we can enhance the number of national concern as has the Thames crossing between vehicles that can use the bridge, and 20% seems to be Thurrock and Dartford. As a former fireman, I have on the figure we are looking at, particularly for the bridge—I too many occasions attended incidents on the Essex will come back to the bores in a moment—it is surely side of the crossing where road traffic accidents—road fair to the user, whether local or national, that there is traffic collisions, or whatever modern term we use today— free flow. have taken place because people were so frustrated that A considerable amount of construction work is required they took risks. I would ask the drivers and passengers to realign the road so that there is a straight run, what the cause of the accident was, and all too often particularly when vehicles come off the bridge. Otherwise, they replied that it was anger, frustration and concern at junction 1A, as those of us who are familiar with that that they were being delayed in going about their business part of the world know, they would be dog-legging to or doing their personal duties. Whether they were going the right at that optimal speed of 50 mph, which will be north or south, they were usually delayed for one reason: the speed at which they will be allowed to come down. the toll booths on the Kent side of the river. There will be a great deal of work and cost involved in 73WH Dartford Crossing (Congestion)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Dartford Crossing (Congestion) 74WH doing that, and a great deal of technology needs to be the problem; we had to close the bridge because of the put in place as well. Some of that technology is already wind. The bridge was not designed brilliantly well— there. The average-speed cameras will be commissioned hindsight is a wonderful thing—and does not have the soon, and we intend to start commissioning beyond the kind of protection from winds exceeding 50 mph that bridge and back towards junction 2 as the public get we would expect from a modern bridge. That meant used to the 50 mph speed that we want them to use to that use of the bridge had to be suspended, and we come across the bridge safely and go towards the bores. reverted to using the two bores in the two tunnels—that almost took me back to my youth. I accept that that The money will come specifically from the increase in caused a great deal of trouble. Was the problem caused the toll. I would love to have informed the House today by the infrastructure or by the tolling? It was caused by that we do not need the 50p from 2011 and 2012, the infrastructure not being fit for purpose. because, obviously, I do not like taxing the British public. However, we need that money, which will be As we work together—I hope that we can—on this hypothecated for the work we need to do and to pay not project in the next couple of months, I hope to be able only for the non-charging, which we will implement as a to bring in colleagues from all parties who represent short-term measure, but for the free-flow tolling and constituencies in and around the Dartford river crossing then—this was touched on by colleagues—to look at a area. I always wonder why we call it the Dartford river business plan for a new lower Thames crossing. crossing area when Thurrock is on the other side. We should call it the Thurrock-Dartford river crossing. I We all know that the capacity and growth that this stood as a parliamentary candidate in Thurrock in country needs will mean that we will struggle, particularly 2001, and I know only too well that it could be a going north. Why will there be such a problem going fantastic growth area if there were confidence in the north? It is because the two bores are not the same size. bridge. The inside bore is smaller, so we will struggle to keep a free flow going while oversize vehicles move into the I understand that there may be disappointment that outside lane to go through the larger bore. That is a big the tolls were not removed when the previous agreement technical issue. We still intend to remove the barriers, was in place, but I have to stand here as the Minister but we will have to use the matrix signs to slow the and say what will be the best outcome for the country as traffic going north or halt it so that those vehicles can a whole, and for the constituents of hon. Friends who move across. That will always be a problem. are here today. There are two things that I can do: I can give them confidence in the future that, by removing the Secondly, where there is congestion—for example, on barriers so that traffic will have free flow, local people the M25 in the Essex section—we cannot legally allow will be able to cross regularly, whether they are going to traffic to sit in the tunnel for any length of time. It is not work or moving socially from north to south and south safe, and we have no intention of doing that. Therefore, to north. as we look forward to developing different plans, we have to start to ask whether we will invest some of the The other thing that I need to come back to is the money that we are recouping from the region—the net effect on the environment when that free flow comes in. income at the moment is £45 million—in a business It is of paramount importance that we look after not plan. As we develop the concept, we must ask, first, only the economy of this country but our constituents. whether we should build a bridge or a tunnel, and, We know that the levels of pollution are unacceptably secondly, where it will go. Of course, there will be high—particularly when there are problems going north, investment not just in the crossing but in the infrastructure and because of how close residential properties are to on the Essex and Kent sides, which must be linked in. the roads—and are likely to increase. Even though we are driving down emissions, we know from the sheer That was brought home to me starkly when I visited number of HGVs that come through that we will have some of my old stomping grounds in Essex recently issues with that. and, as the Minister with responsibility for shipping, was taken on to the river by the Port of London We can move as fast as we can for free flow to take Authority. I have a dual role when it comes to that part place, but we must ensure that the technology works of the country. I spoke to business people who told me and that local residents have confidence in the local that they owned land on the Kent side but had no discount schemes. I hope you will not mind my saying intention of using it because they could not guarantee this, Mr Rosindell: the take-up of the schemes was that they would be able to get their vehicles across the as high as we all expected. However, if there are bridge and back. That is stifling the economy and complications—I know that local residents find the growth. I freely admit that not one of them has said to schemes complicated—perhaps hon. Members could me, “We can’t afford to do this; we think that the 50p is drop me a line about their concerns. going to be a problem for us.” I am sure that there are We are spreading the scheme. My hon. Friend the businesses that will be affected by it, but what they were Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) looking at was the ability to have a business plan that was looking at that, and it has been put forward many worked. In other words, if they need to get from A to B, times. The problem is where to stop. I fully understand and that happens to be from the Kent coast up through that the people who live nearby get a discount and that the midlands, how can they plan for that when they others just down the road do not, but we have to draw know, for instance, that they will be queuing at peak the line somewhere. times—and sometimes not at peak times? Several colleagues have written to me in the past Mr Evennett: Bexley residents are much closer to the couple of days to ask why we did not suspend the toll bridge and the tunnel than many others, but they do not charges when the winds were bad the other day. The have a discount scheme. Will they be included in the reason was that it was not the barriers that were causing Minister’s thoughts? 75WH Dartford Crossing (Congestion)23 NOVEMBER 2010 Dartford Crossing (Congestion) 76WH

Mike Penning: They are certainly included in my Rehman Chishti: Will every avenue be followed to thoughts—my hon. Friend uses a good piece of ensure full and thorough consultation with local authorities terminology. I am more than willing to look at that, but and residents in the areas that are proposed for any if I take the discount away from some and give it to future Thames crossing? others, I will get just as many complaints from the other side. I have to look at the revenue. The key at present is Mike Penning: There will be full consultation on that, not to have a cash cow but to use the money to make the just as there will be consultation now on the toll increases. environment better for my hon. Friend’s constituents in Of course consultation will take place, but we must the future. ensure that whatever is built is fit for purpose not just I hope that this will not be the last debate on the for us today, but for future generations. subject. This is not a bid for being here every day, or on I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford a regular basis, but I hope that colleagues will engage on securing this debate, and I hope we can work with with my officials, my Department and me to get the best other colleagues on this project. option. My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford said earlier that we may not agree on everything, but let us Question put and agreed to. work together on those things we do agree on. Let us use this opportunity to develop the economy and the environment, and to make the area a much better place 1.59 pm for everyone to live and work in. Sitting adjourned. 7WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 8WS

by £3,796,000 from £20,805,607,000 to £20,801,811,000 Written Ministerial and the Administration budget will be increased by £2,300,000 from £321,187,000 to £323,487,000. Statements Within the DEL change, the impact on Resources and Capital is as set out in the following table:

Tuesday 23 November 2010 Change New DEL

Non- Non- Voted Voted Voted Voted Total ATTORNEY-GENERAL Resource (220,865) 217,069 7,772,927 11,263,059 19,035,986 (£000) Departmental Expenditure Limits of which: Administration1 2,300 0 319,843 3,644 323,487 budget The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve): Subject Near cash in (220,965) 217,169 6,210,394 11,094,742 17,305,136 to parliamentary approval of any necessary supplementary Resource 2 estimate, the Attorney-General’s total DEL will be increased DEL by £10,977,000 from £686,875,000 to £697,852,000. Within the total DEL change, the impact on resources and Capital (£000) (27,085) 27,085 699,571 1,302,762 2,002,333 capital are set out in the following table: Less (100) 100 (68,191) (168,317) (236,508) Depreciation3 (£000) Change New DEL £’000 Total (£000) (248,050) 244,254 8,404,307 12,397,504 20,801,811 Non- Non- 1The total of the ’Administration Budget’ and ’Near Cash in Resource DEL’ Voted voted Voted voted Total figures may well be greater than total Resource DEL, due to the definitions overlapping. Resource DEL 10,977 - 659,077 36,182 695,259 2Capital DEL includes items treated as Resource in Estimates and Accounts, of which: but which are treated as Capital DEL in Budgets. 3Depreciation, which forms part of Resource DEL, is excluded from the total Administration - - 60,948 - 60,948 DEL since Capital DEL includes Capital spending and to include depreciation budget of those assets would lead to double counting. Capital DEL1 - - 11,840 - 11,840 Less Depreciation2 - - -9,247 - -9,247 The change in the resource element of the DEL arises Total DEL 10,977 - 661,670 36,182 697,852 from: 1Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. RfR1 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from total DEL since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of i) An increase in voted receipts from the Department those assets would lead to double counting. for Work and Pensions of £6,179,000 and an increase of The Crown Prosecution Service’s (CPS) element of non-voted expenditure by the Regional Development the Attorney-General’s total DEL will be increased by Agencies in respect of self-employment programmes; £8,185,000 from £633,242,000 to £641,427,000. ii) A budget transfer from the Department for Work The change in Resource DEL arises from budgetary and Pensions of £413,000 of non-voted expenditure for transfers totalling £8,185,000 from the Ministry of Justice the Regional Development Agencies in respect of the consisting of School Gates initiative; £4,300,000 to help fund the Compass Case Management System iii) An increase in voted receipts from the Department £2,600,000 from Victim Surcharge collections for Transport of £228,000 and an increase of non-voted £785,000 to provide support for the Local Criminal Justice expenditure by the Regional Development Agencies in Boards respect of delivering a sustainable transport system; £500,000 to help fund the delivery of the Corporate Manslaughter iv) A virement of £535,000 from voted expenditure to Act 2007 non-voted expenditure by the Regional Development The Serious Fraud Office’s (SFO) element of the Agencies in relation to National Business Link marketing; Attorney-General’s total DEL will be increased by £2,792,000 from £38,754,000 to £41,546,000. v) Virements from voted expenditure by the Strategic Investment Fund to non-voted expenditure by the The change in Resource DEL arises from the take up Technology Strategy Board for the establishment of the of £2,792,000 in blockbuster funding relating to UN Oil UK Life Sciences Super Cluster initiative (£595,000), to for Food cases to enable the SFO to continue with the advance new “prize” funds in emerging technologies investigation and prosecution of outstanding cases in (£5,000,000), the Composites Challenge Fund (£6,000,000), 2010-11. and the Industrial Biotechnical Demonstrator Fund (£2,555,000); BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS vi) A virement from the Strategic Investment Fund to the Skills Funding Agency (RfR3) of £3,700,000 for the automotive industry; Departmental Expenditure Limits vii) A virement of £97,000 from the Skills Funding Agency (RfR3) to non-voted expenditure by the Regional The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Development Agencies for Train to Gain; Skills (Vince Cable): Subject to parliamentary approval viii) A virement of £350,000 from Higher Education of the necessary supplementary estimate, the Department participation programmes (RfR3) for joint BIS funding for Business, Innovation and Skills’ DEL will be reduced of the National Council for Graduate Entrepreneurship; 9WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS ix) A virement of £20,000,000 from the non-voted xiii) A virement of £97,000 from the Skills Funding Departmental Unallocated Provision to non-voted Agency to non-voted expenditure by the Regional expenditure by the Higher Education Funding Council Development Agencies (RfR1) for Train to Gain; for England (RfR3); xiv) A virement of £350,000 from Higher Education x) A virement of £496,000 from Science and Society participation programmes to RfR1 for joint BIS funding (RfR2) to corporate services; of the National Council for Graduate Entrepreneurship; xi) A virement of £2,533,000 from the non-voted xv) An increase in voted receipts of £823,000 from the Departmental Unallocated Provision for voted expenditure Department for Education for “Routes into Languages” on research and analytical services (RfR3); funding to be distributed as non-voted expenditure by xii) A virement of £25,000 from the non-voted the Higher Education Funding Council for England; Departmental Unallocated Provision for voted expenditure xvi) An increase in voted receipts of £299,000 from the on Government Skills (RfR3); Department for Education for Repayment of Teacher xiii) A virement of £3,102,000 consultancy savings (RfR3) Loan work to be undertaken by the non-voted Student to the non-voted Departmental Unallocated Provision; Loans Company; xiv) A virement of £60,000 from Premature Retirement xvii) A virement of £930,000 to voted Higher Education Compensation and Voluntary Colleges (RfR3) to the Student Support from non-voted expenditure by the non-voted Departmental Unallocated Provision; Higher Education Funding Council for England; RfR2 xviii) A virement of £6,048,000 from voted Higher i) A virement of £13,000 from voted Research-Based Education Student Support to non-voted expenditure Initiatives to the non-voted Departmental Unallocated by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills; Provision for Science; xix) A virement of £4,904,000 from voted Higher Education ii) A virement of £496,000 from Science and Society to Student Support to non-voted expenditure by the Student corporate services (RfR1); Loans Company; RfR3 xx) A virement of £100,000 from non-voted expenditure i) A virement from voted expenditure to non-voted by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills to expenditure by the Higher Education Funding Council Adult Skills and Learner Support; for England of Higher Education Shared Services (£20,000,000), the Higher Education Modernisation Fund xxi) A virement of £20,000,000 from the non-voted (£133,000,000), Higher Education participation programmes Departmental Unallocated Provision (RfR1) to non-voted (£10,500,000) and Annual Population Survey (£140,000); expenditure by the Higher Education Funding Council for England; ii) A virement of £14,000,000 from voted expenditure by the Skills Funding Agency to non-voted expenditure Also within the change to resource DEL, the changes to by the Higher Education Funding Council for England; the Administration budget are (RfR1): iii) A transfer of £1,990,000 from the Department for i) A virement of £2,300,000 from programme to Education to non-voted expenditure by the UK administration using the Digital Switchover helpscheme Commission for Employment and Skills for the National underspend to fund broadband expansion; Vocational Qualifications Levy; iv) A transfer of £4,280,000 from the Department for The change in the Capital element of the DEL arises Communities and Local Government for the Migration from: Impact Fund; RfR1 v) A transfer of £9,521,000 from the Ministry of Justice for Offender Learning; i) A virement of £10,000,000 from voted expenditure by the London Development Agency to the non-voted vi) A transfer of £20,000,000 from the Skills Funding Departmental Unallocated Provision; Agency to the Department for Education for Learners with Learning Difficulties and/or Disabilities; ii) A virement of £5,000,000 from voted expenditure of vii) A virement of £2,533,000 from the non-voted the Strategic Investment Fund to non-voted expenditure Departmental Unallocated Provision (RfR1) for voted of the Technology Strategy Board for Competition IV - expenditure on research and analytical services; Low Carbon vehicle supply chains; viii) A virement of £25,000 from the non-voted iii) An increase of £32,400,000 in voted receipts from Departmental Unallocated Provision (RfR1) for voted the Department for Transport and an increase in non-voted expenditure on Government Skills; expenditure by the Regional Development Agencies in ix) A virement of £60,000 from Premature Retirement respect of regional infrastructure funds; Compensation and Voluntary Colleges to the non-voted iv) A virement of £5,000,000 from non-voted expenditure Departmental Unallocated Provision (RfRI); by the Higher Education Funding Council for England x) A virement of £3,102,000 consultancy savings to the (RfR3) to voted expenditure by British Shipbuilders; non-voted Departmental Unallocated Provision (RfR1); v) A virement of £1,860,000 from non-voted expenditure xi) An increase of £4,176,000 in non-voted expenditure by the Higher Education Funding Council for England by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, (RfR3) to the non-voted Departmental Unallocated and increased voted contributions from other Departments; Provision; xii) A virement from the Strategic Investment Fund vi) A virement of £13,140,000 from non-voted expenditure (RfR1) to the Skills Funding Agency of £3,700,000 for by the Higher Education Funding Council for England the Automotive Industry; (RfR3) to non-voted Launch Investment Receipts; 11WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS

RfR2 The change in the administration budget arises from i) A Virement of £1,300,000 from non-voted expenditure the specific administration items detailed in the resource by the Research Councils to the Research Capital element above. Investment Fund; The change in the capital element of DEL arises RfR3 from: The take up of £2,415,000 non-voted Departmental Unallocated i) A virement of £15,000 from non-voted to voted Provision as voted capital costs to facilitate improvements to capital in relation to the UK Commission for Employment key operational activities (DEL neutral). and Skills; vii) A virement of £14,000,000 from non-voted expenditure by the Higher Education Funding Council for England Departmental Expenditure Limits (Resource) to voted expenditure by the Skills Funding Agency; viii) A virement of £5,000,000 from non-voted expenditure The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine by the Higher Education Funding Council for England Greening): Subject to Parliamentary approval of the to voted expenditure by British Shipbuilders (RfRI); winter supplementary estimate, HM Treasury’s Resource ix) A virement of £1,860,000 from non-voted expenditure DEL will be decreased by £20,657,000 from £206,740,000 by the Higher Education Funding Council for England to £186,083,000. The Administration Budget will be to the non-voted Departmental Unallocated Provision decreased by £21,957,000 from £159,551,000 to (RfR1); £137,594,000. The impact on resources, including the x) A virement of £13,140,000 from non-voted expenditure administration budget, is set out in the following table: by the Higher Education Funding Council for England Change New DEL £’000 to non-voted Launch Investment Receipts (RfRI). Non- Non- Voted voted Voted voted Total

TREASURY Resource DEL -20,657,000 - 152,359,000 33,724,000 186,083,000 Of which: Administration -21,957,000 - 126,485,000 11,109,000 137,594,000 Departmental Expenditure Limits (HM Revenue Budget1 and Customs) Capital - - 45,3000,000 3,400,000 48,700,000 Less - - -6,725,000 - -6,725,000 Depreciation2 The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Total DEL -20,657,000 - 190,934,000 37,124,000 228,058,000 Gauke): Subject to parliamentary approval of the 1Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but supplementary estimate, the HM Revenue & Customs which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. total DEL will be decreased by £500,000 from 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from total DEL since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of £3,706,842,000 to £3,706,342,000. Within the total DEL those assets would lead to double counting. change, the impact on resources and capital are as set The net reductions in resource DEL of £20,657,000 out in the following table: and Administration Budget of £21,957,000 are the net

Change New DEL £’000 effect of the transfer of responsibility for the Office of Government Commerce to the Cabinet Office following Non- Non- Voted voted Voted voted Total the Machinery of Government transfer announced on 15 June 2010. Resource 37,771 -38,271 3,311,284 425,976 3,737,260 DEL Of which: Departmental Expenditure Limits (National Savings Administration 37,771 -38,271 3,586,418 79,437 3,665,855 and investments) Budget1 Capital 2,415 -2,415 211,549 - 211,549 Less - - -242,467 - -242,467 The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark 2 Depreciation Hoban): Subject to parliamentary approval of any necessary Total 40,186 -40,686 3,280,366 425,976 3,706,342 DEL supplementary estimate, National Savings and Investments 1The total of ’Administration Budget’ figures may well be greater than total (NS&I) departmental expenditure limit (DEL) will be resource DEL, due to the definitions overlapping. increased by £15,994,000 to £168,402,000. Within the 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from total DEL DEL change, the impact on resources and capital are since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. set out in the following table: The change in the resource element of DEL arises from: Change New DEL Non- Non- A transfer of £500,000 administration costs to the Cabinet £’000 Voted voted Voted voted Total Office Security and Intelligence Agencies, as HMRC’s share of funding Information Assurance Activities. Resource 15,994 -4,994 168,402 - 168,402 The take up of £38,335,000 non-voted Departmental DEL Unallocated Provision as voted administration costs to facilitate Of which: - improvements to key operational activities (DEL neutral). Administration 15,994 -4,994 168,402 - 168,402 A decrease in voted DEL of £64,000 with respect to Budget administration cash leasing costs under International Financial Near cash 15,994 -4,994 164,769 - 164,769 Reporting Standards, which transfer to non-voted DEL in RDEL (DEL neutral). Capital - - 464 - 464 13WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS

CABINET OFFICE Change New DEL Non- Non- Directgov (Review) £’000 Voted voted Voted voted Total

Less - - -2,983 - -2,983 The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster Depreciation1 General (Mr Francis Maude): I invited Martha Lane Total 15,994 -4,994 165,883 - 165,883 DEL Fox, the Government’s digital champion, to undertake 1Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from total DEL a strategic review of Directgov which was completed on since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of 14 October 2010. This supported the work that the those assets would lead to double counting. Efficiency and Reform Board had undertaken on channel The change in the resource element of DEL (£15,994,000) shift and the opportunity for digital channels to support is required to continue the delivery of NS&I’s adding delivery of the spending review. The Chief Secretary to value strategy for both the modernisation and simplification the Treasury and I wrote to Departments in September of infrastructure and products. To facilitate this, NS&I outlining our commitment to improving services and has included the following items in its winter supplementary driving efficiencies by making digital the default channel estimate: for Government information and transactional services. Martha Lane Fox submitted her report “Directgov Resource DEL end year flexibility (£6.0 million), 2010 and beyond: revolution not evolution” to me in DEL Reserve claim (£5.0 million), October. The report places Directgov in the context of Departmental Unallocated Provision (£4.994 million). how Government should use the internet both to communicate and interact better with citizens and to deliver significant efficiency savings from making digital the default delivery channel for Government information Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill (Ministerial and services. Correction) I have written to Martha Lane Fox today thanking her for her report and saying that I am minded to accept her proposals in full, but that I will need to consult The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David colleagues before making any final decisions about how Gauke): On 15 November the Financial Secretary to the to take them forward. I have placed Martha Lane Fox’s Treasury reported to Parliament on the operation of report and my response in the Library. Both documents the UK’s Counter-Terrorist Asset Freezing Regime for are also available on the Cabinet Office website the period July to September 2010. (www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk) I expect quick and broad agreement on some of During the Second Reading of the Terrorist Asset- Martha Lane Fox’s proposals where we can make rapid Freezing etc. Bill, I responded to the right hon. Member progress and that in some areas—such as moving to a for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) about figures published single domain for Government—I will have to work in the report. My response appears on 15 November, with Departments to test different approaches and work Official Report, column 708. through the details and timescales. It is important to set The explanation I gave of the figures was incorrect. a clear direction of travel and that is what I have done in For the purpose of transparency and to ensure the my reply as the initial Government response to Martha report is correctly interpreted in the future I would like Lane Fox’s proposals. to clarify that explanation. Departmental Expenditure Limits As of 30 September 2010, a total of 205 accounts containing just under £290,000 of suspected terrorist The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster funds were frozen in the UK. General (Mr Francis Maude): Subject to parliamentary Of that £290,000 approximately £140,000 was frozen approval of the winter supplementary estimate 2010-11, under the UK’s domestic terrorist asset freezing regime, the Cabinet Office total departmental expenditure limit which is mandated by UNSCR 1373 and implemented (DEL) will be increased by £229,588,000 from £329,499,000 by the legislation which the Bill is intended to replace. to £559,087,000. The remaining £150,000 was frozen under the UN The impact on resources and capital is set out in the al-Qaeda and Taliban asset-freezing regime. following table:

£’000 Main Estimate DEL Changes Winter Supplementary Estimate New DEL Non- Total Voted Non-voted Total Voted Non-Voted Total Voted voted

Resource DEL 259,942 49,196 309,138 +105,452 +100,985 +206,437 365,394 150,181 515,575 Of which: Administration 171,459 10,400 181,859 +53,858 - +53,858 225,317 10,400 235,717 Budget Capital DEL 2 45,887 2,000 47,887 +23,250 - +23,250 69,137 2,000 71,137 Depreciation 1 -27,526 - -27,526 -99 - -99 -27,625 - -27,625 Total DEL 278,303 51,196 329,499 +128,603 +100,985 +229,588 406,906 152,181 559,087 AME 15WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS

1 Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total DEL since Capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. 2 Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in estimates and accounts but which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets.

Summary of Changes in Departmental Expenditure Limit Government transfer. These changes decrease Resource (DEL) DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash Requirement by The change in the resource element of DEL is an £212,000. increase of £206.437 million which comprises £163.636 Budget Cover Transfers to other Government Departments million for x3 Machinery of Government transfers from £4,290,000 other Government Departments, £47.303 million of A budgetary cover transfer from the Office for Civil agreed claims on the Reserve, £4.290 million budget Society to the Department for Communities and Local covers transfers to other Government Departments and Government to cover the costs of the Government a reduction of £0.900 million for dividends receivable Office Network reduces Resource DEL, Net Resource from Buying Solutions and an increase of £0.688 million and Net Cash Requirement by £290,000. for purchase of goods and services relating to the Office of Government Commerce, both excluded from the A budgetary cover transfer to the Security and Machinery of Government transfer. Intelligence Agencies (SIA) for Information Assurance reduces Resource DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash The change in the capital element of DEL is an Requirement by £4,000,000. increase of £23.250 million which comprises £21.750 million Capital DEL End Year Flexibility drawdown Transfer from non-voted to voted within Resource DEL and a claim on the Reserve for £1.500 million. A switch within Resource DEL of £1,700,000 from Changes in Resource DEL (RDEL) non-voted to voted programme reflects savings made by The changes which result in a net increase in Resource executive NDPBs and reduces the Grant-in-Aid to eNDPBs DEL (RDEL) of £206,437,000 are as follows: and their non-voted expenditure and increases Office for Civil Society voted grants. The impact on Net Agreed Claims on the Reserve £47,303,000 Resource and Net Cash Requirement and Resource A Claim on the Reserve for Grassroots Grants increases DEL is neutral. Resource DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash Requirement Other neutral adjustments within Resource DEL by £18,000,000. A switch within RDEL from administration to A Claim on the Reserve for v Match Funding increases programme to cover costs of additional programme Resource DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash Requirement expenditure of £14,000,000. by £8,828,000. A switch from Office for Civil Society resource grants A Claim on the Reserve from the Modernisation to core Cabinet Office programme expenditure to re-profile Fund to cover estate rationalisation and early departures the budget cuts reflected in the main estimate 2010-11 increases Resource DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash of £11,000,000. Requirement by £10,475,000. Programme income has been reduced by £29,000,000 A Claim on the Reserve from the Transition Fund to offset by a reduction in expenditure due to various support civil society organisations in adapting to a programmes coming to an end. changing funding environment increases Resource DEL, Net Resource and Net Cash Requirement by £10,000,000. An increase in administration income by £4,800,000 offset by administration expenditure on wages and salaries Machinery of Government Transfers £163,636,000 relating to the Office of Government Commerce; this The transfer of Directgov from the Department for adjustment is in addition to the Machinery of Government Work and Pensions (DWP) to the Cabinet Office increases transfer. Resource DEL and Net Resource Requirement by A virement of £485,000 from independent offices—Civil £28,985,000 and Net Cash Requirement by £28,886,000. Service Commissioners administration expenditure to The transfer of the Office of Government Commerce the newly created executive non-departmental public and its executive agency, Buying Solutions, from HM body—Civil Service Commission—programme expenditure. Treasury to the Cabinet Office increases Resource DEL The impact on Net Resource and Net Cash Requirement and Net Cash Requirement by £20,657,000, increases and Resource DEL is neutral. Non-Budget expenditure Resource AME by £529,000 and increases Net Resource outside DEL has increased by £485,000. Requirement by £21,186,000. A virement of £126,000 from independent offices—Civil The transfer of responsibility for political and Service Commissioners administration expenditure to constitutional reform from the Ministry of Justice to core Cabinet Office. The impact on Net Resource the Cabinet Office increases voted Resource DEL, Net Requirement, Net Cash Requirement and Resource Resource and Net Cash Requirement by £11,794,000. A DEL is neutral. transfer relating to the costs of the general election 2010 Changes in Capital DEL (COED increases non-voted Resource DEL by £102,200,000. Other changes outside Machinery of Government transfer The changes which result in a net increase in Capital £212,000 DEL (CDEL) of £23,250,000 are as follows: Dividends receivable from Buying Solutions of £900,000 End Year Flexibility / Claim on the Reserve and an increase of £688,000 for purchase of goods and A drawdown to cover capital grants programmes run services relating to the Office of Government Commerce. by the Office for Civil Society (OCS) increases Capital These adjustments are in addition to the Machinery of DEL and Net Cash Requirement by £21,750,000. 17WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS

A drawdown on the Reserve from the Modernisation 2.4 A net transfer of £140,000 to other Government Fund to cover the costs of estate rationalisation increases Departments, made up of: Capital DEL and Net Cash Requirement by £1,500,000. Neutral adjustment within Capital DEL Transfers in (Programme total £8,300,000, Administration total £290,000) Amount A switch within Capital DEL from Office for Civil (£) Department Reason Society capital grants to core Cabinet Office non-current £1,980,000 Culture Media and Sport Contributions to the Migration Impact assets to re-profile the budget cuts reflected in the main Fund estimate 2010-11 has a neutral impact on Capital DEL £4,340,000 Home Office and Net Cash Requirement, whereas Net Resource Requirement decreases by £2,500,000 and Net Voted £1,980,000 Health Capital increases by the same amount. £290,000 Cabinet Office Transfer of work on Community Cohesion Transfers out (Programme total £8,730,000)

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT £2,500,000 Energy and Climate Local Carbon Frameworks Change £4,280,000 Business Innovation Migration Impact Fund Departmental Expenditure Limits and Skills £100,000 Cabinet Office Cross Government funding of Information Assurance capabilities. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local £1,850,000 Foreign and Papal visit Commonwealth Office Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Subject to Parliamentary approval of any necessary supplementary estimate, the Department for Communities and Local Government’s 2.5 a net increase in receipts of £23,837,000. This is departmental expenditure limits for 2010-11 will change made up of increases in provision of: as follows: £100,000 for the dividend payment from the Fire Service Section 1: Main Programmes DEL College; 1. The Department for Communities and Local £7,020,000 in respect of Firelink projects in Scotland and Government’s Main DEL will be decreased by £83,471,000 Wales; from £9,937,138,000 to £9,853,667,000 and the £5,160,000 increase in dividend receipts for Ordnance Survey; administration budget will be increased by £290,000 £1,883,000 for staff on loan to the Homes and Communities from £261,722,000 to £262,012,000. Within the DEL Agency and outward secondment (administration budget); change, the impact on resources and capital are as set £21,833,000 administration for Government Office programmes out in the following table: (administration budget); offset by decreases in provision of: (£’000) Change NEW DEL £159,000 decrease in dividends for Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre Non- Non- Voted voted Voted voted Total £12,000,000 to reflect reduced income from sub-tenants following departure from Ashdown House (administration Resource -8,156 -35,317 3,337,329 438,354 3,775,683 budget). Of which 2.6 a net transfer of £3,336,000 programme provision Administration 290 260,334 1,678 262,012 budget from non-voted to voted made up as follows: Capital 1 -12,005 -58,024 1,305,153 4,816,782 6,121,935 from voted to non-voted provision Depreciation 2 0 30,031 -38,488 -5,463 -43,951 £2,316,000 was surrendered to the departmental unallocated Total -20,161 -63,310 4,603,994 5,249,673 9,853,667 provision (DUP) in respect of savings identified in the 1 Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but review of Pilots projects; which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets 2 Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total £2,100,000 of departmental receipts to the Homes and DEL, since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation Communities Agency to fund additional pension costs. The of those assets would lead to double counting additional funding is required to meet liabilities which had 2. The change in the resource element of the DEL not been fully costed when the body was first set up; arises from: £100,000 from fire and rescue services improvement programme 2.1 An internal transfer of £2,158,000 to Request for (a dividend payment from the Fire Service College) is being Resources 1 (main DEL) from Request for Resources 2 transferred to DUP; (Local Government DEL) made up from £1,625,000 to from non-voted to voted provision the strategic research budget (main DEL) and £533,000 to DCLG’s communication budget (main DEL). Both £1,500,000 from the Homes and Communities Agency Growth due to withdrawal of funding in support of eco-towns. of these changes are to enable more effective management of the budgets. £6,352,000 from DUP to help restore the European regional development fund (ERDF) liability budget to its original 2.2 An increase in main DEL of £700,000 in respect total. (The budget was reduced by £17.1 million at main of Infrastructure UK. This is a technical correction. estimates as a temporary measure while the budgets to 2.3 A surrender of £46,191,000 programme expenditure deliver administrative savings which contributed to the to HM Treasury made up of £16,160,000 internal savings £6.2 billion savings were identified. and £30,031,000 to reflect technical changes under the 2.7 The changes described at paragraphs 2.5 and 2.6 clear line of sight project (CLOS) which were overlooked above have a net nil effect on the departmental expenditure when CLOS was first set up. limit: 19WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS

2.8 The change in the administration budget arises CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT from the transfer of £290,000 from the Cabinet Office—see above table at 2.4. 3. The change in the capital element of the DEL arises Departmental Expenditure Limits from: 3.1 a surrender of £70,029,000 programme expenditure to HM Treasury made up of: The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media £14,629,000 internal savings; and and Sport (Mr Jeremy Hunt): Subject to parliamentary £55,400,000 as the borrowing element in respect of local approval, the Department for Culture Media and Sport’s authority new build programmes. departmental expenditure limit (DEL) will be increased 3.2 an increase in receipts of £19,500,000 for capital by £39,700,000 from £1,957,263,000 to £1,996,963,000 pooled housing receipts offsetting increases in provision and the administration budget will increase by £7,200,000 of £5,189,000 for the Olympics programme; £13,277,000 from £44,288,000 to £51,488,000. Within the DEL change for Control Room, £950,000 for Thames Gateway and the impact on resource and capital are set out in the £84,000 for renewing neighbourhood programme. following table: 3.3 a net transfer of £2,624,000 from non-voted to voted made up of: Change New DEL £’000 Non- Non- from voted to non-voted provision Voted voted Voted voted Total £2,340,000 to the community infrastructure fund to support the Dearne Valley transport project to be delivered by Barnsley Resource DEL 4,396 5,244 90,863 1,460,220 1,551,083 metropolitan borough council; Of which: £950,000 to Thames Gateway to enable the London Urban Administration 7,200 - 51,488 - 51,488 Development Council to meet pressures on the additional budget compulsory purchase order valuation. Capital1 11,901 18,159 -643,406 1,217,392 573,986 from non-voted to voted provision Less Depreciation2 - - -7,500 -120,606 -128,106 A surplus on local authority supported capital expenditure Total 16,297 23,403 -560,043 2,557,006 1,996,963 (LASCE) of £5,914,000 is being moved to private sector 1Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but renewal to restore an earlier reduction in their 2010-11 which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from total DEL allocation. since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of 3.4 The changes described at paragraphs 3.2 and 3.3 those assets would lead to double counting. above have a net nil effect on the departmental expenditure The change in the Resource element of the DEL limit: arises from: Section 2: Local Government DEL Take up of £9,700,000 End Yearflexibility comprising: 4. The Department for Communities and Local (£4,000,000) UK Film; (£2,000,000) Museums and Government’s local government DEL will be decreased Galleries; and £3,700,000 Administration budget, and a by £2,374,000 from £25,992,569,000 to £25,990,195,000. transfer of £60,000 from Resource to Capital DEL for Within the DEL change, the impact on resources and the Poetry Archive capital are as set out in the following table: The administration budget has increased by £7,200,000 from £44,288,000 to £51,488,000. This is as a result of (£’000) take up of £3,700,000 Administration End YearFlexibility Change NEW DEL and an agreed transfer of £3,500,000 from programme Non- Non- to administration costs. Voted voted Voted voted Total The Capital element of the DEL has increased by Resource -2,158 -182 25,863,046 115,353 25,978,399 £30,060,000 as a result of: Capital 1 0 182 12,470 582 13,052 The drawdown of £30,000,000 End Year Flexibility Depreciation 2 0 -216 0 -1,256 -1,256 (EYF) to meet agreed spending plans and a transfer of Total -2,158 -216 25,875,516 114,679 25,990,195 £60,000 to Capital from Resource DEL for the Poetry 1 Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and Archive. accounts but which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets 2 Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total DEL, since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. DEFENCE 5. The change in the resource element of the DEL arises from: the transfer of £2,158,000 from Request for Resources 2 Departmental Expenditure Limits (local government DEL) to Request for Resources 1 (main DEL) described at paragraph 2.1 above a switch of £182,000 from resource to capital. Local Government The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): Standards Board’s capital allocation was taken out in the Subject to parliamentary approval of the necessary last budget reduction. It was necessary to transfer this fund supplementary estimate, the Ministry of Defence from resource to capital to cover the spending to date. departmental expenditure limits (DEL) will be increased 6. The change in the capital element of the DEL arises by £102,744,000 (Voted and Non Voted) from from £37,219,510,000 to £37,322,254,000. Within the DEL the switch of £182,000 to Capital from Resource for change, the impact on Resources and Capital are as set Local Government Standards Board described above. out in the following table: 21WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS

RfR2: £000s Change New DEL (1) A transfer in of £16,033,000 from the Department for International Development being their contribution Non- Non- Voted Voted Voted voted Total to the conflict pool. The changes to Resource DEL and Capital DEL will Resource 102,744 - 35,454,550 603,460 36,058,010 lead to an increased net cash requirement of £104,033,000. Of which: --2,182,586 - 2,182,586 Administration Budget Capital - - 10,070,208 851 10,071,059 EDUCATION Depreciation1 - - -8,797,259 -9,556 -8,806,815 Total 102,744 - 36,727,499 594,755 37,322,254 1 Depreciation, which forms part of Resource DEL, is excluded from Departmental Expenditure Limits the total DEL since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. The changes to the resource and capital elements of the DEL arise from: The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): Subject to parliamentary approval of any necessary Voted Resource DEL increase £102,744,000: supplementary estimate, the Department for Education RfRl: (DfE) departmental expenditure limit (DEL) will be (1) An increase of £88,000,000 in Resource DEL to increased by £580,339,000 from £57,318,757,000 to bring it into line with the audited outturn for 2009-10, £57,899,096,000; the administration cost budget will updating the provisional adjustment made at main estimate, increase by £1,500,000 from £180,503,000 to £182,003,000. as agreed with the Treasury from the reserve. The Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services (2) To increase the net non budget grant funding of and Skills (OFSTED) which has a separate Estimate £1,289,000 by reducing Resource DEL by £28,000 for and DEL, will remain at £190,196,000 with the the Council of Reserve Forces and Cadets Association, administration cost budget remaining at £27,337,000. £600,000 for the National Army Museum, £871,000 for The Office of Qualifications and Examination Regulation the Royal Hospital Chelsea, and £315,000 for the Cadets (OFQUAL) which has a separate Estimate and DEL, and Sea Scouts Association; and, increasing Resource will remain at £23,400,000. DEL by reducing the Royal Navy National Museum Within the DEL change, the impact on resources and non budget grant of £525,000. capital are as set out in the following table:

DfE Resources Capital2 Change New DEL Of which: Change New DEL Of which: Voted Non-voted Voted Non-voted £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000

RfRI 623,339 49,683,740 41,290,026 8,393,714 -43,000 6,297,547 242,474 6,055,073 RfR2 0 1,602,784 1,602,784 0 0 315,025 315,025 0 DfE Total 623,339 51,286,524 42,892,810 8,393,714 -43,000 6,612,572 557,499 6,055,073 OFSTED 0 190,196 185,852 4,344 0 0 0 0 OFQUAL 0 17,900 17,300 600 0 5,500 5,500 0 Sub Total 623,339 51,494,620 43,095,962 8,398,658 -43,000 6,618,072 562,999 6,055,073 Of which Admin 1,500 209,340 204,872 4,468 0 0 0 0 Budget Depreciation11 -1,500 -17,137 -14,107 -3,030 0 0 0 0 Total 621,839 51,477,483 43,081,855 8,395,628 -43,000 6,618,072 562,999 6,055,073 1Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total DEL, in the table above, since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. 2Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets.

Department for Education RFR1 Resource DEL A transfer from the Department for Work and Pensions for £4,183,000 in respect of their agreed share of the The increase in the resource element of the DEL of costs associated with the Child Poverty Innovation fund. £623,339,000 arises from a decrease in the voted element of the resource DEL of £9,089,000 and an increase of A transfer from the Department for Business, Innovation £632,428,000 in the non-voted element of resource DEL, and Skills of £20,000,000 in respect of Higher Discretionary mainly in the Department’s Non-Departmental Public Support for 19 to 24 year olds. Bodies. A Machinery of Government transfer to the Ministry Voted Resource DEL of Justice of £43,811,000 in respect of the Joint Youth Justice Unit. This was a joint project between the The £9,089,000 decrease in the voted element of the Department for Education and the Ministry of Justice. resource DEL arises from: Responsibility for this has been moved entirely to the Ministry of Justice. 23WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS

A transfer to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE £1,850,000 to cover the Departments’ contribution to the educational objective of the jointly funded Papal Visit. Departmental Expenditure Limits A transfer from Qualifications and Curriculum Development Agency (QCDA) to the Department for The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Business, Innovation and Skills of £1,990,000 in respect (Chris Huhne): Subject to parliamentary approval of of National Vocational Qualifications income received any necessary supplementary estimate, the Department by QCDA that fund UK Commission for Employment of Energy and Climate Change departmental expenditure and Skills expenditure. limit (DEL) will increase by £650,000 from £3,111,948,000 A transfer to the Department for Communities and to £3,112,598,000. Local Government of £1,980,000 for the Migration Within the DEL change, the impact on resources and Impact Fund. capital are as set out in the following table: A transfer to the Scottish Government of £213,000 for Child Trust Funds top ups. £’000 Change New DEL A switch of £33,000,000 from Capital Grants to Resource Non- Non- spending for Schools and Teachers to re-profile budgets Voted Voted Voted Voted Total affected as part of the Department’s 2010 Emergency Resource DEL 943,776 -924,801 407,198 810,364 1,217,562 Budget savings of £670 million. Of which: Take up of Departmental End Year Flexibility of Administration - - 108,084 - 108,084 £606,000,000 to increase provision for Sixth Forms Budget delivered through the Young People’s Learning Agency. Capital DEL1 3,262 -21,587 725,519 1,178,182 1,903,701 2 A movement of £626,928,000 to non-voted resource Less Depreciation - - -2,987 -5,678 -8,665 DEL to support the Department’s Non-Departmental Total DEL 947,038 -946,388 1,129,730 1,982,868 3,112,598 1Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but Public Bodies. which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. A movement of £4,500,000 from Non Voted spending 2Depreciation, which forms part of Resource DEL, is excluded from the total DEL in the table above, since Capital DEL includes capital spending and to to re-profile provision usage no longer required and include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. relieve pressures on the depreciation budgets caused by the recent Clear Line of Sight adjustments. Resource DEL Non-voted resource DEL The increase in the Resource element of the DEL of The £632,428,000 increase in Non-voted resource £18,975,000 arises from an increase in the voted element DEL arises from: of Resource DEL of £943,776,000 offset by a decrease RFR1 of £924,801,000 in the non-voted element of Resource DEL. A movement of £10,000,000 from non-voted Capital switched to resource to re-profile budgets affected as Voted Resource DEL part of the Department’s 2010 Emergency Budget savings The £943,776,000 increase in the voted element of of £670 million. Resource DEL arises from: A movement of £626,928,000 from voted resource to A decrease of £923,000,000 in Nuclear Decommissioning support the Department’s Non-Departmental Public Authority operating appropriations-in-aid. Bodies. A transfer from non-voted Capital DEL of £18,325,000, A movement of £4,500,000 from non-voted resource reflecting the revision of the Capital/Resource split of DEL to support the Department’s Administration the £85 million DECC contribution to the £6.2 billion expenditure. savings announced on 24 May 2010. Capital DEL A transfer from non-voted Resource DEL of £1,801,000. The decrease in the capital element of the DEL of A transfer from the Department for Communities £43,000,000 arises from a decrease in the non-voted and Local Government of £2,500,000 for Low-Carbon element of capital DEL. Framework pilot programmes. Non-voted Capital DEL A transfer to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of £1,850,000 towards the costs of the Papal visit. The £43,000,000 decrease in the non-voted element Non-voted Resource DEL of capital DEL arises from: The £924,801,000 decrease in non-voted Resource A switch of £43,000,000 from non-voted capital into DEL arises from: voted and non-voted resource A decrease of £923,000,000 in Nuclear Decommissioning to re-profile budgets affected as part of the Department’s Authority DEL reflecting the revised scoring of their 2010 Emergency Budget savings of £670 million. income as non-voted in DEL terms, offsetting the reduction Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services in appropriations-in-aid. and Skills A transfer to voted Resource DEL of £1,801,000. There has been no change in overall DEL limits Capital DEL within the winter supplementary. The decrease in the Capital element of the DEL of Office of Qualifications and Examination Regulation £18,325,000 arises from an increase in the voted element There has been no change in overall DEL limits of Capital DEL of £3,262,000 and a decrease of within the winter supplementary. £21,587,000 in the non-voted element of Capital DEL. 25WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 26WS

Voted Capital DEL Rural Development Programme for England. This change The £3,262,000 increase in the voted element of Capital is DEL neutral, but the expenditure is classed as voted, DEL arises from: whereas the income is classed as non-voted consolidated fund extra receipts. A transfer from non-voted Capital DEL of £3,262,000. There is no change in the depreciation budget. There Non-voted Capital DEL has however been a transfer of £325,000 from voted to The £21,587,000 decrease in the non-voted element non-voted relating to a transfer of budget to the Marine of Capital DEL arises from: Management Organisation. A transfer to voted Capital DEL of £3,262,000. There is no change in the capital element of the DEL. A transfer to voted Resource DEL of £18,325,000, There has however been a transfer within the capital reflecting the revision of the Capital/Resource split of element of the DEL of £17,763,000 from voted to non-voted the £85 million DECC contribution to the £6.2 billion relating to budget transfers from the core Department savings announced on 24 May 2010. (voted) to the Department’s Non Departmental Public Bodies (non-voted), mainly the Environment Agency.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Departmental Expenditure Limits Departmental Expenditure Limits The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Subject to parliamentary approval of any necessary Affairs (Mr William Hague): Subject to parliamentary supplementary estimate, the Department for Environment, approval of any necessary supplementary estimate, the Food and Rural Affairs departmental expenditure limit Foreign and Commonwealth Office departmental (DEL) will be reduced by £218,000 (0.01%) from expenditure limit (DEL) will be increased by £95,878,000 £2,417,291,000 to £2,417,073,000. The Administration from £2,127,148,000 to £2,223,026,000. The administration Budget will be reduced by £662,000 (0.23%) from budget will be increased by £64,250,000 from £420,448,000 £282,750,000 to £282,088,000. Within the DEL change, to £484,698,000. Within the DEL change, the impact on the impact on resources and capital is set out in the resources and capital are as set out in the following following table: table:

£’000 Change £’000 New DEL £’000 Change New DEL Non- Non- Non- Non- Voted voted Voted voted Total Voted voted Total Voted voted Total Resource 138,143 -17,000 2,124,381 29,000 2,153,381 Resource 12,345 -12,563 -218 3,707,615 -1,290,542 2,417,073 Of which: Of which: Administration 81,250 -17,000 468,068 16,630 484,698 Administration -662 - -662 282,088 - 282,088 budget Budget Capital1 -25,265 - 168,695 - 168,695 Capital -17,763 17,763 - 123,127 424,587 547,714 Depreciation2 - - -99,050 - -99,050 Depreciation1 325 -325 - -100,441 -109,235 -209,676 Total 112,878 -17,,000 2,194,026 29,000 2,223,026 Total -5,093 4,875 -218 3,730,301 -975,190 2,755,111 1Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and accounts but 1Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. DEL since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total those assets would lead to double counting. DEL since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of The change in the resource element of the DEL of those assets would lead to double counting. -£218,000 arises from: The change in the resource element of the DEL arises (i) a transfer of £1,850,000 administration to the Foreign from: and Commonwealth Office for the Papal visit; (ii) a transfer of £1,188,000 administration and £544,000 Request for Resources 1 programme to DEFRA from the Food Standards Agency Administration for the Machinery of Government Change reflecting a I. Take up of £15,000,000 Administration EYF in respect permanent transfer of function to DEFRA covering of modernisation of the core FCO. elements of food labelling and food composition policy; II. A claim on the Reserve of £15,000,000 Administration and (iii) a transfer of £100,000 programme to the Scottish costs in respect of Corporate Services modernisation. Executive to fund Marine Protected Areas. III. Transfer of £1,850,000 administration from the There has also been a transfer within the resource Department for Education in respect of the Papal visit. element of the DEL of £12,563,000 from non-voted to voted: (i) £9,447,000 relating to budget transfers from IV. Transfer of £1,850,000 administration from the the core Department (voted) to the Department’s Non- Department for International Development in respect Departmental Public Bodies (non-voted), mainly the of the Papal visit. Environment Agency, the Joint Nature and Conservation V. Transfer of £1,850,000 administration from the Committee and Natural England; and (ii) £22,010,000 Department of Energy and Climate Change in respect relates to increases in income and expenditure for the of the Papal visit. 27WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 28WS

VI. Transfer of £1,850,000 administration from the Request for Resources 2 Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Programme in respect of the Papal visit. I. Transfer of £16,467,000 grants from DFID in respect VII. Transfer of £1,850,000 administration from the of conflict prevention and discretionary Peacekeeping Department for Communities and Local Government funds. in respect of the Papal visit. II. Transfer of £54,000 grants to the Security Intelligence VIII. Transfer of £180,000 administration from the Agencies for expansion and capability. Department for International Development in respect of the gratis visa operation in Chernobyl. IX. Capital to Administration switch of £25,000,000 in respect of exchange rate pressures. Programme HEALTH I. Transfer of £100,000 programme from the Department for International Development in respect of the Strategic and Bilateral fund work in the Democratic Republic of Departmental Expenditure Limits Congo. II. Transfer of £40,000,000 programme from the Department for International Development in respect The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon of support for British Council Official Development Burns): Subject to the necessary supplementary estimates, Assistance (ODA). the Department of Health’s element of the departmental III. Transfer of £200,000 programme from the Department expenditure limit (DEL) will increase by £20,860,000 of International Development in respect of Tanzania from£106,260,372,000to£106,281,232,000theAdministration Police Training Project. Cost Limit has increased by £4,201,000 from £211,079,000 to £215,280,000. The Food Standards Agency DEL Capital decreases by £16,059,000 from £130,989,000 to £114,930,000. I. Capital to administration switch of £25,000,000 in The Administration Cost Limit will reduce by £5,389,000 respect of exchange rate pressures. from £56,299,000 to £50,910,000. The overall DEL including II. Capital transfer of £265,000 from FCO to DFID as the Food Standards Agency will increase by £4,801,000 a contribution towards building a new office in Juba, from £106,391,361,000 to £106,396,162,000. The impact Sudan. on resource and capital are set out in the following table:

Change New DEL Voted Non-voted Voted Non-voted Total £m £m £m £m £m Department of Health

Resource DEL, of which 467.860 -447.000 101,141.041 243.339 101,384.380 Administration Budget 4.201 - 210.280 5.000 215.280 Capital DEL1 - 0 2,150.189 2,746.663 4,896.852 Total Department of Health DEL 467.860 -447.000 103,291.230 2,990.002 106,281.232 Depreciation2 - - -1,119.419 0 -1,119.419 Total Department of Health spending (after 467.860 -447.000 102,171.811 2,990.002 105,161.813 adjustment) Food Standards Agency Resource DEL, of which -16.059 - 114.329 - 114.329 Administration Budget -5.389 - 50.910 - 50.910 Capital DEL1 - - 0.601 - 0.601 Total Food Standards Agency DEL -16.059 114.930 - 114.930 Depreciation2 - - -1.861 - -1.861 Total Food Standards Agency spending -16.059 - 113.069 - 113.069 (after adjustment) 1Capital DEL includes items treated as Resource in Estimates and accounts but which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. 2Depreciation, which forms part of resource DEL, is excluded from the total DEL since the capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting.

The Department of Health DEL has increased by a transfer of -£1,980,000 to the Department of Communities £20,860,000 made up of: and Local Government towards the migrant impact fund. an increase of £14,327,000 (£4,201,000 administration costs) The Department of Health’s administration cost limit as a result of a Machinery of Government change with has increased as a result of the Machinery of Government nutrition policy moving from the Food Standards Agency; change detailed above. a transfer of £10,513,000 from the Ministry of Justice mainly for prison healthcare services; The change of £16,059,000 to the Food Standards Agency element of the DEL is due to: a transfer of -£2,000,000 to the Cabinet Office as the Department’s share of a contribution to information assurance a reduction in DEL of £14,327,000 (£4,201,000 administration strategy; and costs) for the transfer of nutrition responsibilities to the 29WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 30WS

Department of Health. It was announced on the 20 July the Department of Health would become responsible for nutrition Subtotal voted £6,642,000 policy in England; and Total reductions in RDEL -£74,730,000 a reduction in DEL of £1,732,000 (£1,188,000 administration costs) for the transfer of labelling responsibilities. It was The change in the Capital element of DEL arises announced on the 20 July that the Department for Environment, from: Food and Rural Affairs will become responsible for country Non-voted of origin labelling and various other types of labelling not related to food safety, and food composition policies in Transfers in from other Government Departments £265,000 England. £265,000 transferred from Foreign and Commonwealth Office in respect of the new Juba office build. Income from Global Trade Liquidity loan to be paid into the Consolidated Fund (CFER) since it exceeds INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT voted capital expenditure -£200,000,000

Use of Departmental Unallocated -£3,001,000 Departmental Expenditure Limits Provision Subtotal non-voted -£202,736,000 Voted The Secretary of State for International Development IDA replenishment on resource side £200,000,000 (Mr Andrew Mitchell): Subject to parliamentary approval of the Estimate of the necessary supplementary estimate, the Department Use of Departmental Unallocated £3,001,000 for International Development’s departmental expenditure Provision limit (DEL) will be reduced by £74,465,000 from Subtotal voted £203,001,000 £7,618,569,000 to £7,544,104,000. Total increases in CDEL £265,000 Within the DEL change, the impact on resources and capital are as set out in the following table: JUSTICE Change New DEL £’000 Voted Non- Voted Non- Total voted voted Serious Further Offence Review

Resource DEL 6,642 -81,372 5,023,211 985,628 6,008,839 Of which: The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice Administration - - 154,644 3,000 157,644 (Mr Kenneth Clarke): Following the recall to custody budget and subsequent conviction of Jon Venables for the Capital DEL 1 203,001 -202,736 1,737,001 -180,736 1,556,265 possession of indecent images of children, I commissioned Less Depreciation - - -21,000 - -21,000 Sir David Omand GCB to undertake an independent 2 review of the post-release period of the case, covering Total DEL 209,643 -284,108 6,739,212 804,892 7,544,104 Jon Venables’ supervision from release on life licence in 1 Capital DEL includes items treated as resource in Estimates and Accounts but June 2001 until 24 February 2010, when he was recalled which are treated as Capital DEL in budgets. 2 Depreciation, which forms part of the resource DEL, is excluded from the to custody. total DEL, since capital DEL includes capital spending and to include depreciation The review has encompassed the general principles of of these assets would lead to double counting. a serious further offence (SFO) review but has also The change in the Resource element of DEL arises considered the wider lessons to be learnt for the future from: management of this and similar cases. Non-voted The terms of reference of the review were: Transfers out to other Government Departments -£74,730,000: to review the supervision of the subject, from his release on -£40,000,000 transferred to the Foreign and Commonwealth life licence until his recall to custody, in order to establish Office in respect of support for British Council Official whether he was effectively supervised, having regard to national Development Assistance (ODA). standards and guidance and to the particular circumstances/ -£16,467,000 transferred to the Foreign and Commonwealth challenges of his case; Office in respect of the conflict prevention pool. in doing so, to consider the actions of his offender managers, their supervisors, the local police, the local MAPPA meetings -£16,033,000 transferred to the Ministry of Defence in respect and the role of the National Management Board; and of the conflict prevention pool. to establish whether everything was done which might reasonably -£1,850,000 transferred to the Foreign and Commonwealth have been expected of all agencies involved in supervising Office in respect of the papal visit. the subject to monitor his compliance with his licence conditions -£200,000 transferred to the Foreign and Commonwealth and to assess and manage any risk of harm which he Office in respect of police training in Tanzania. presented. -£180,000 transferred to the Foreign and Commonwealth Sir David Omand has completed the review and Office in respect of visas for Chernobyl victims. submitted his report to me.

Use of Departmental Unallocated -£6,642,000 I have placed in the Libraries of both Houses a copy Provision of his report, which has been redacted in a few places to Subtotal non voted -£81,372,000 comply with the terms of the injunction amended in the Voted High Court on 23 July 2010 (commonly known as the Butler-Sloss injunction), to take account of data protection Use of Departmental Unallocated £6,642,000 Provision and other confidentiality laws and to protect very sensitive operational policing information. 31WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 32WS

Sir David has concluded that Jon Venables was effectively limit (DEL) for Scottish Government will be increased and properly supervised at an appropriate level and by £302,413,000 from £28,401,374,000 to £28,703,787,000. frequency of contact, having regard to the particular Within the total DEL change, the impact on resources circumstances of his case. Sir David also concludes that and capital is set out in the following table: no reasonable supervisory regime would have been expected to detect his use of the computer to download indecent £’000 Change New DEL images. Resource DEL 158,993 25,857,454 I have accepted the review’s recommendations, which Of which: will be taken forward by officials in the National Offender Management Service. Officials will provide me with an Non Ring-Fenced 125,993 25,243,842 update on the implementation of the recommendations Capital DEL 149,621 3,388,567 in due course. Resource DEL + Capital DEL 308,614 29,246,021 Less Depreciation 6,201 542,234 Total DEL 302,413 28,703,787 NORTHERN IRELAND DEL provision for the Scotland Office will remain Departmental Expenditure Limits unchanged. The increase in the Scotland DEL takes account of The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen the following adjustments to the Scottish Government Paterson): Subject to parliamentary approval the Northern provision: Ireland Office (NIO) will be taking a 2010-11 winter the take-up of end-year flexibility (EYF) by the Scottish supplementary estimate. The effect this will have is to Government amounting decrease the NIO’s Total DEL (excluding depreciation) to £302,621,000 (including £6,201,000 for depreciation and by £1,169,047,000 from £1,203,205,000 to £34,158,000. impairments); Clear Line Of Sight classification changes—student loans of Change New DEL £4,500,000. Non- Non- The DEL increase also includes the following changes: £’000 Voted Voted Voted voted Total a transfer of £1,180,000 from the Home Office in respect of Resource (293,444) (869,832) 34,174 1,702 35,876 the migration impact fund; Admin (51,813) 16,751 - 16,751 a transfer of £100,000 from the Department for Environment Budget Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) to Marine Scotland in Capital (35,387) (36,076) 440 - 440 respect of marine protected areas; Depreciation 24,797 40,895 (2,100) (58) (2,158) a transfer of £213,000 from the Department for Children, Total (excl. (304,034) (865,013) 32,514 1,644 34,158 Schools and Families in depreciation) respect of the Child Trust Fund. The change in total DEL of £1,169,047,000 relates to ANNEX A the devolution of policing and justice to the Northern CHANGES TO DEL Ireland Executive on 12 April 2010. Scotland Office DEL NI Consolidated Fund—Request for Resources (RfR) 2 1. The Scotland Office DEL will remain unchanged. The Northern Ireland Executive DEL is increased by £1,310,609,000 from Scotland DEL £9,515,937,000 to £10,826,546,000. Within the total 1. Take-up of EYF by the Scottish Government of DEL change, the impact on resources and capital is set £302,621,000 (£153,000,000 near cash, £33,000,000 non-cash out in the following table: and £149,621,000 capital); 2. Clear Line Of Sight classification changes amounting Change £000 New DEL £000 to £4,500,000; and Resource DEL 1,307,846 9,931,705 3. Other transfers of £1,493,000 as follows: Capital DEL 80,263 1,222,906 a transfer of £1,180,000 from the Home Office in respect of Resource DEL + Capital DEL 1,388,109 11,154,611 the migration impact fund; Less Depreciation 77,500 328,065 a transfer of £100,000 from the Department for Environment Total DEL net of depreciation 1,310,609 10,826,546 Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) to Marine Scotland in respect of marine protected areas; This increase takes account of the Machinery of a transfer of £213,000 from the Department for Children, Government change that devolved policing and justice Schools and Families in respect of the child trust fund. from the Northern Ireland Office and the Northern 4. In addition, provision for depreciation increases by Ireland Courts Service to the Northern Ireland Executive £6,201,000. on 12 April 2010. 5. Within the total DEL change, the impact on resources and capital is set out in the following table: SCOTLAND £’000 Change New DEL Departmental Expenditure Limits Resource DEL 158,993 25,857,454 Of which: The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): Non Ring-Fenced 125,993 25,243,842 Subject to parliamentary approval of the necessary Capital DEL 149,621 3,388,567 supplementary estimates, the departmental expenditure 33WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 34WS

Request for Resources 3 £’000 Change New DEL iii. A budget transfer of £1,200,000 to the Paydays and Resource DEL + Capital DEL 308,614 29,246,021 Periodicity for Pension benefits. Small up-front cost of Less Depreciation/Impairments 6,201 542,234 £ 1.2 million required to be transferred to Non-voted Total DEL 302,413 28,703,787 AME. iv. A transfer from Request for Resources 5 of £1,000,000 to cover the costs of Information Assurance for 2010-11. CHANGES TO AME v. A budget transfer of £1,000,000 to the Cabinet Office 1. An increase in provision of £2,686,000 for NHS for the Department’s contribution to Information Assurance pensions (Scotland); for 2010-11. 2. An increase in provision of £40,293,000 for teachers Request for Resources 5 pensions (Scotland); vi. A Machinery of Government change of £28,985,000 3. An increase in provision of £20,000,000 for NHS to the Cabinet Office. This is to bring together and impairments; consolidate in the Cabinet Office all the various strands 4. A reduction in provision of £5,258,000 for student of work on transparency, open data, Government websites loans; and and digital engagement. 5. A reduction in provision of £4,500,000 for Clear Line vii. A transfer to Request for Resources 3 of £1,000,000 Of Sight classification changes—student loans. to cover the costs of Information Assurance for 2010-11. CHANGES TO NON BUDGET Movements in Non-Voted Expenditure 1. A reduction of £177,737,000 for changes in cash to viii. A decrease in non-voted expenditure of £16,000 accrual adjustments. offset by an increase in voted expenditure of £16,000 There is an increase in the grant payable to the relating to decreased spend of the Independent Living Scottish Consolidated Fund of £539,572,000 from Fund. £26,609,096,000 to £27,148,668,000. ix. A decrease in non-voted expenditure of £14,495,000 offset by an increase in voted expenditure of £14,495,000 relating to decreased spend of the Pensions Regulator. WORK AND PENSIONS x. A decrease in non-voted expenditure of £226,000 offset by an increase in voted expenditure of £226,000 relating to decreased spend of the Pensions Advisory Departmental Expenditure Limits Service. xi. A decrease in non-voted expenditure of £75,000 The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain offset by an increase in voted expenditure of £75,000 Duncan Smith): Subject to parliamentary approval of relating to decreased spend of the Office of the Pensions the necessary supplementary estimate, the Department Ombudsman. for Work and Pensions Resource departmental expenditure xii. An increase in non-voted expenditure of £37,214,000 limit will decrease by £35,781,000 to £8,730,218,000 offset by an increase in voted income of £37,214,000 and the Capital departmental expenditure limit will relating to the increase of income for administering remain unchanged at £243,052,000. The Administration National Insurance Benefits. budget will decrease by £31,185,000 to £6,076,705,000. Capital Departmental Expenditure Limit

Change(£’000) New DEL (£’000) The net nil movement in the capital element of the Departmental Expenditure Limit arises from: Non- Non- Voted voted Total Voted voted Total Movements in Non-Voted Expenditure xiii. A decrease in non-voted capital expenditure of Resource -58,183 22,402 -35,781 5,599,225 3,130,993 8,730,218 £18,508,000 offset by an increase in voted capital of which: expenditure of £18,508,000 relating to decreased spend Administration -31,185 0 -31,185 4,543,556 1,533,149 6,076,705 of the Pensions Regulator. Capital 18,496 -18,496 0 191,224 51,828 243,052 xiv. An increase in non-voted capital expenditure of 1 Depreciation 919 -1,018 -99 -254,880 -834 -255,714 £12,000 offset by an decrease in voted capital expenditure Total DEL -40,606 4,924 -35,682 5,535,569 3,181,987 8,717,556 of £12,000 relating to increased spend of the Pensions 1Depreciation, which forms part of the resource Departmental Expenditure Limit, is excluded from the total Departmental Expenditure Limit since the Advisory Service. capital Departmental Expenditure Limit includes capital spending and to Administration Costs include depreciation of those assets would lead to double counting. The movement in the Administration Cost limit arises Resource Departmental Expenditure Limit from the changes to the Resource Departmental The change in the resource element of the departmental Expenditure Limit as noted in items iii to vii. expenditure limit arises from: Movements in Voted Expenditure Active at 60 (Community Agents) Request for Resources 2 i. A budget transfer of £4,183,000 to the Department The Minister of State, Department for Work and for Education to meet the Department’s agreed share of Pensions (Steve Webb): Today, I am pleased to announce the costs associated with the Child Poverty Innovation that the Government are providing £1 million to help fund for 2010-11. older people keep active and make the most of their ii. A budget transfer of £413,000 to the Department for later lives. This money is available for local community Business, Innovation and Skills for Regional Development groups or organisations within 30 selected areas1 to bid Agency payments in relation to the School Gates project. for small grants of between £250 and £3,000. 35WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 36WS

Each local community group within the selected areas Assessment (WCA). This is a substantial and thorough will recruit at least one Active at 60 Community Agent review of the WCA which the Government fully endorse. who will volunteer their time to help motivate, encourage Alongside the review, the Government are publishing and organise people within their own communities to their response which sets out how we will implement the become more active, physically, socially and mentally. review’s recommendations. Active at 60 Community Agents will be from the communities they are helping, and will have the flexibility A central part of the Government’s plans to reform to design innovative ways of encouraging and inspiring the welfare state involves action to tackle incapacity activity to help improve people’s later lives. benefit dependency. More than 2.2 million people in Britain today are on incapacity benefits and many have Through the Active at 60 Community Agent initiative been abandoned, with little or no contact from the those people who are more at risk of social isolation in welfare state for as long as a decade or more. their later lives will be supported in becoming more active, independent and positively engaged with society. Through the WCA we seek to change this, and to try Active at 60 Community Agents will help people within to find a better way forward for those people. From their communities: April 2011 we will put 1.6 million people, all of those on take the first step in trying something new incapacity benefits who are not close to retirement, understand the benefits they can get from being more active, through an independent medical assessment, the WCA. engaged and contributing to their communities Those found fit for work or with the potential to return build social contacts to help make being active part of their to work will be given support to help them do so, those routine who are deemed unable to work will continue to receive This project is part of the Government’s ambition to full support. build a big society in which power is transferred from Whitehall to local communities, and organisations and We believe that the principles of the WCA are right voluntary groups play a far greater role in their community. but we are clear that the process of assessment must be 1 fair and honest about people’s potential. We do not The following areas have been selected on the basis of level of wish to see people who are genuinely unable to work put deprivation and age structure, while ensuring a broad split across the English regions, encompassing both rural and urban areas: in a position where they are expected to do so. Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Hackney, Sandwell, Kingston Upon Professor Harrington’s review sets out how we can Hull, Nottingham, Bournemouth, Southend-on-Sea, Brighton refine the system and significantly improve the process and Hove, Redcar and Cleveland, Wirral, Doncaster, Cornwall and The Isles of Scilly, East Sussex, Norfolk, Herefordshire, so that it continues to be fit for purpose. We intend to County of Lincolnshire, Enfield, Knowsley, Blackpool, Manchester, implement these changes as quickly as possible. Many Stoke-on-Trent, Birmingham, Salford, Hartlepool, Tower Hamlets, will be put in place in time for the first assessments from Wolverhampton, South Tyneside, Rochdale, Sunderland. the national migration in April 2011. We will continue to review the WCA and to make Work Capability Assessment further changes where necessary.We have invited Professor Harrington to continue in his current role as independent reviewer for another year and to make further The Minister of State, Department for Work and recommendations to us as appropriate. Pensions (Chris Grayling): The Government are pleased to announce the publication of Professor Malcolm Copies of both documents are available in the Vote Harrington’s independent review of the Work Capability Office.

169W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 170W Written Answers to Human Trafficking Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Questions the Home Department when the inter-departmental ministerial group on trafficking will next meet; and what will be discussed at that meeting. [25618] Tuesday 23 November 2010 Damian Green: The Government recognise the importance of monitoring the progress of anti-trafficking HOME DEPARTMENT efforts in the UK and our international obligations. A date is being sought for the next meeting of the Departmental Public Expenditure Inter-Departmental Ministerial Group in the near future. Discussions at the Group will reflect ongoing developments Ed Balls: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home in trafficking policy. Department what the (a) resource and (b) capital funding for her Department will be in (i) 2011-12, (ii) Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2012-13, (iii) 2013-14 and (iv) 2014-15; and for each Home Department when she expects to publish her such year what the real terms change will be compared Department’s strategy on human trafficking. [25730] to 2010-11. [24005] Damian Green: We plan to publish the strategy on Mrs May [holding answer 15 November 2010]: The tackling human trafficking in spring 2011 alongside the following table sets out the Home Office’s resource and strategy on organised crime. capital funding and the real-terms change compared to 2010-11. Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 Home Department whether the UK Human Trafficking Centre has a business plan. [25798] Resource non ring-fence 9.3 8.9 8.5 8.1 7.8 (£ billion) Resource ring-fence1 (£ 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.2 Damian Green: The UK Human Trafficking Centre billion) (UKHTC) became part of the Serious Organised Crime Total resource budget (£ 9.5 9.2 8.8 8.3 28.1 Agency (SOCA) on 1 April 2010. billion) All of SOCA’s activities, including on human trafficking, Real terms change — -5 -11 -18 23 compared to 2010-11 are covered in its annual plan which is published at the (percentage) start of each financial year.

Capital DEL (£ billion) 0.8 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.5 Real terms change — -41 -42 -59 -49 Illegal Immigrants compared to 2010-11 (percentage) 1 The headline resource figures in the spending review announcement excluded Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the a technical accounting element of Department’s budgets referred to as the Home Department how many raids for immigration resource ring-fence that mostly covers costs for depreciation. For completeness both the headline resource numbers and resource ring-fence figures have been purposes have been conducted (a) in total and (b) included in the table. between the hours of 3.00 am and 7.00 am in each of 2 Total resource is higher than the sum of resource non ring-fence and the last 24 months. [25396] resource ring-fence due to rounding to one decimal point. Deportation: Offenders Damian Green [holding answer 19 November 2010]: The following table shows the total number of enforcement Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home visits to business premises and private addresses Department how many foreign nationals who have conducted by the UK Border Agency in each month been convicted and imprisoned for offences relating to from November 2008 to October 2010, the number of human trafficking were deported to their country of those visits conducted between 03.00 hrs and 07.00 hrs, origin in the last five years. [25660] and the percentage of the overall number that the latter represent (the majority of such operations in fact take Damian Green [holding answer 22 November 2010]: place between 06.00 hrs and 07.00 hrs). All data are Between January 2008 and June 2010, the UK Border sourced from management information tools and are Agency have removed or deported approximately 13,350 not quality assured under national statistics protocols. foreign nationals referred by the Prison Service. Of The figures provided do not constitute part of national these less than 1% had a recorded latest primary offence statistics and should be treated as provisional. of human trafficking (or similar). This figure is based The timing of each enforcement visit will be dependent on internal management information and should therefore upon the type of visit to be conducted. For example, be treated as provisional and subject to change. Reliable visits to private addresses will not normally be conducted data on offence types is not available prior to 2008. either very late at night or very early in the morning; Data on the total number of foreign nationals convicted however, visits to business premises are approached or imprisoned for offences relating to human trafficking with more flexibility. All visits are subject to prior risk is held by the Ministry of Justice and not the UK assessment and required to be proportionate to the Border Agency. legitimate aims of the UK Border 171W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 172W

Marriage of Convenience (b) Visits between Month (a) All visits 03.00 and 07.00 % Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for November 2008 1,084 343 32 the Home Department what recent assessment she has December 2008 778 213 27 made of the incidence of sham marriages being used as January 2009 1,101 368 33 an opportunity for entry into the UK in the latest February 2009 1,020 330 32 period for which figures are available; and what plans March 2009 1,125 296 26 she has to reduce that incidence. [25678] April 2009 668 204 31 May 2009 747 230 31 June 2009 915 263 29 Damian Green: It is not possible to estimate the July 2009 947 313 33 number of sham marriages taking place in the UK for August 2009 878 287 33 the purpose of attempting to gain the right to live and September 2009 1,057 361 34 work in the UK. October 2009 1,119 459 41 Civil Registrars are legally obligated under s24 of the November 2009 1,217 470 39 Asylum and Immigration Act 1999 to report any prospective December 2009 843 313 37 marriages or civil partnerships they believe may be January 2010 1,067 405 38 being contracted for the purposes of circumventing February 2010 1,172 428 37 immigration control to the UK Border Agency (UKBA). March 2010 1,254 514 41 UKBA holds data on the number of s24 reports of April 2010 892 330 37 suspicious marriages made by civil registrars but these May 2010 1,143 455 40 are allegations and not proof of a sham marriage. S24 June 2010 1,221 461 38 reports also do not cover marriages taking place in the July 2010 1,210 407 34 Anglican Church in England and Wales, where the August 2010 1,219 438 36 clergy are not under the same legal obligation, or those September 2010 1,351 465 34 identified by UK Border Agency case workers. October 2010 1,266 471 37 To the end of September 2010 665 s24 reports have Totals 25,294 8,824 35 been received in UKBA, this reflects an increase on the Notes: total 2009 figure of 561 but this increase reflects the 1. All data are sourced from management information tools and are not quality assured under National Statistics protocols. The figures provided do not constitute raising of awareness among registrars that our work to part of National Statistics and should be treated as provisional. tackle the problem has generated rather than a rise in 2. The timing of each enforcement visit will be dependent upon the type of visit the number of sham marriages. to be conducted. For example, visits to private addresses will not normally be conducted either very late at night or very early in the morning; however, visits We are working closely with both the civil registration to business premises are approached with more flexibility. All visits are subject authorities and the Anglican Church in England and to prior risk assessment and required to be proportionate to the legitimate aims of the UK Border Agency’s operations. Wales who are all committed to helping us tackle the problem of sham marriage. We are providing training Immigration Controls and awareness sessions and working to develop closer links between register offices and Dioceses at a local Ed Balls: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home level as early detection is key to preventing foreign Department (1) on what dates Ministers in her nationals gaining an immigration advantage from a Department have met representatives from the (a) sham marriage. CBI, (b) British Chambers of Commerce and (c) Entering into a sham marriage does not automatically Federation of Small Businesses to discuss the entitle a foreign national to the right to live and work in Government’s proposed immigration cap since 11 May the UK and all couples must provide comprehensive 2010; [24603] evidence to UKBA that they are in a genuine and (2) on what dates Ministers in her Department have subsisting relationship for any leave to be granted. All met the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and couples are subject to the same robust case working Skills to discuss the Government’s proposed processes and we are working to strengthen these further. immigration cap. [24604] UK Border Agency has the power to refuse to grant leave if it is suspected that a marriage has taken place Mrs May [holding answer 16 November 2010]: I met solely for immigration purposes and we have the power representatives from the CBI on 21 September 2010 and to revoke leave granted as a result of a sham marriage. 10 November 2010, and the Minister for Immigration met a representative of the British Chambers of Commerce Migration on 26 May 2010 to discuss our proposals for limiting non-EU economic migration. My officials have met the Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for the CBI, the British Chambers of Commerce and the Home Department what assessment she has made of Federation of Small Businesses to discuss these proposals. progress since May 2010 towards her objective for I have met with the Secretary of State for Business, reduction of net migration; and if she will make a Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member for statement. [23090] Twickenham (Vince Cable) on several occasions to discuss proposals for limiting non-EU economic migration. Damian Green: The Government are committed to In addition to this, the Minister for Immigration, the reducing net migration to the tens of thousands. On hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green) has met 28 June we launched a 12 week consultation with businesses with the Minister for Universities and Science, the right and other interested sectors on our plans for implementing hon. Member for Havant (Mr Willetts) to discuss these annual limits. At the same time, my right hon. Friend proposals on a number of occasions. the Home Secretary commissioned the independent 173W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 174W

Migration Advisory Committee to advise the Government Damian Green: The number of staff at each grade, on the level at which the first annual limit should be set. who were, or are, employed in Northern Ireland in each We will announce the findings in due course. of the last three years is shown in the following table: We also introduced interim limits on 19 July to prevent these staff are all resident in Northern Ireland. a surge in applications, following the announcement of UK Border Agency staff in Northern Ireland the limits consultation. This would have led to an FTE increase in net migration, undermining the purpose of 31 March each year the limit. The limit included a very modest reduction in Grade 2008 2009 2010 numbers, just 5% below the equivalent period in 2009-10. Senior executive 223 In addition, we are reviewing other routes of non-EU officer migration (students, settlement, family etc) as action on Higher executive 5612 these too will be needed, and we will be applying officer transitional measures to new EU accession states. Executive officer 24 24 30 Administrative 13 11 9 Police: Accountability officer Ungraded inward 011 secondment Ed Balls: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Total all grades 44 44 55 Department whether there will be a requirement on Note: candidates or parties taking part in the proposed The figures shown are full-time equivalent (FTE) civil servants and are elections for police commissioners to register with the grouped by the generic grade equivalent. Electoral Commission. [24647] SCOTLAND Mrs May [holding answer 17 November 2010]: We are in discussions with the Electoral Commission as Bank Notes part of the ongoing development of the Police and Crime Commissioner elections policy. Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will assess the merits of bringing Police: Administration forward proposals for a legal requirement for shops and businesses in England to accept Scottish Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the banknotes. [24393] Home Department how many stop forms were Michael Moore: The right of certain Scottish and completed by Kent police in (a) Dartford constituency Northern Irish banks to issue banknotes to issue was and (b) North Kent police area in each of the last five confirmed in part 6 of the Banking Act 2009. I am years. [25211] meeting experts from both the banking and the commercial sectors in order to investigate what practical steps may Nick Herbert: Information on the specific number of be taken to increase the recognition of Scottish notes forms filled in is not reported to the Home Office, throughout the United Kingdom, including among the however data on the number of stops and searches and makers of automated payment machines. This will stimulate stop and accounts reported to the Home Office by a wider awareness throughout the UK of the designs police forces are provided in the table. and status of their notes. The data reported to the Home Office are not broken down below police force area level, therefore information for Dartford constituency and North Kent police area CHURCH COMMISSIONERS is not available. Departmental Written Questions Stops and searches in Kent police force area, 2004-05 to 2008-09 Number Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the hon. Member for Stop and Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, how account1 Stop and search2 Total many and what proportion of questions tabled to the 2004-05 — 11,821 11,821 Second Church Estates Commissioner for written 2005-06 12,865 12,565 25,430 answer on a named day were answered substantively 2006-07 14,200 14,186 28,386 before or on the day named for answer (a) in Session 2007-08 22,703 15,784 38,487 2009-10 and (b) since May 2010; how many such 2008-093 20,191 17,777 37,968 questions tabled between May 2010 and 12 November 1 Requirements to record stop and account came in on 1 April 2005-06. 2010 had not received a substantive answer by 2 Includes stops and searches under section 1 of the Police and Criminal 18 November 2010; and what estimate he has made of Evidence Act, section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act and the average cost to the Church Commissioners of section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000. 3 Data for stop and account for 2008-09 are provisional. answering a question for written answer on a named day on the day named for answer in the latest period UK Border Agency: Northern Ireland for which figures are available. [25979] Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Tony Baldry: To the best of my knowledge all named the Home Department pursuant to the answer of day written questions to the Church Commissioners 16 November 2010, Official Report, column 518, on have been answered on or before the named day during UK Border Agency: Northern Ireland, how many such 2009-10. There are no named day written questions still staff at each grade were employed in Northern Ireland awaiting a response. No estimate has been made of the in each of the last three years; and how many such staff average cost to the Church Commissioners of answering were resident in Northern Ireland. [25899] named day written questions. 175W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 176W

Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the hon. Member for their conservation goals, while at the same time, continuing Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, how to assess how we might further develop this approach in many and what proportion of questions tabled to the other parts of the UK. Second Church Estates Commissioner for ordinary written answer (a) in Session 2009-10 and (b) since Departmental Grants May 2010 were answered within (i) seven days and (ii) 14 days of tabling; how many such questions tabled Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for between May 2010 and 12 November 2010 remained Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to which unanswered by 18 November 2010; and what estimate organisations her Department has (a) made grants in he has made of the average cost to the Church 2010-11 and (b) allocated grants for (i) 2010-11, (ii) Commissioners of answering a question for ordinary 2011-12 and (iii) 2012-13; and what the monetary value written answer within seven days of tabling in the latest of each such grant is. [26111] period for which figures are available. [25980] Richard Benyon: The information is as follows: Tony Baldry: To the best of my knowledge all written (a) Tables setting out the value of grants paid to date and to questions to the Church Commissioners during 2009-10 which organisations in 2010-11 will be placed in the House of have been answered in no more than seven days. No Commons Library by the end of December. estimate has been made of the average cost to the (b) (i) The information in regard to allocated grants for Church Commissioners of answering written questions. 2010-11 could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Since taking office as Second Church Estates Commissioner (ii) Following the spending review, my Department is currently in June 2010 I have received 24 written and oral questions, considering budget allocations for 2011-12 and 2012-13. my predecessor answered 120 written and oral questions Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for for the period January 2009 until June 2010. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the monetary value of grants awarded by her Department was in 2009-10; and how much she expects to award in ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS grants in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12. [26114] Biofuels Richard Benyon: Tables setting out the monetary value of grants awarded in 2009-10 will be placed in the Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for House of Commons Library by the end of December. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what The value of grants to be awarded in 2010-11 could information she has on the emissions of (a) be provided only at disproportionate cost. particulates, (b) volatile organic compounds and (c) nitrogen oxide arising from the thermal treatment of Following the spending review, my Department is biomass in the process of making it suitable for currently considering budget allocations for 2011-12. combustion. [25379] Departmental Postal Services Richard Benyon: DEFRA does not hold information Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for on the emission of these pollutants from the treatment Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what services of biomass in the process of making it suitable for provided by her Department and its predecessors were combustion. the subject of a contract with Post Office Ltd in Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for 1997-98 and have subsequently become the subject of a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what reports she contract with another supplier; and what the monetary has received on the incidence of blue haze arising from value was of each such contract in (a) 1997-98 and (b) thermal treatment of biomass in the process of making the latest period for which figures are available in each case. [24923] it suitable for combustion within the UK. [25380]

Richard Benyon: DEFRA is not aware of any reports Richard Benyon: The Department was formed in 2001. on the incidence of blue haze arising from thermal To identify information prior to this date would incur treatment of biomass in the process of making it suitable disproportionate cost. for combustion from within the UK. The Department does not keep central or local records of where the provision of goods/services has been subject Conservation Credit Scheme to a change of supplier. To identify such changes over the period since 1997-98 would incur disproportionate Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for cost. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment she has made of the effectiveness of the Conservation Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Credit Scheme in respect of fishing for cod and whiting Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which services of in the North Sea. [25911] her Department and its predecessors have been the subject of a contract awarded in a tender process in Richard Benyon: DEFRA has been monitoring the which Post Office Ltd submitted a bid since 1997-98. operation of the Conservation Credit Scheme with [24924] considerable interest, since its introduction. It has made real progress in terms of joint working between industry, Richard Benyon: The Department was formed in 2001. Government, scientists and environmental interests. Officials The data requested of all unsuccessful bidders to tender from DEFRA are invited as observers. For the future, and quotation processes are not held centrally or locally we will want to ensure that the arrangements deliver and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. 177W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 178W

Dogs: Breeding to enable it to maintain and operate its waterways network to a fit-for-purpose standard; and if she will Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for make a statement. [25034] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will (a) promote a public education and awareness campaign Richard Benyon: Making British Waterways a charitable concerning genetic health problems in pure-bred dogs company gives users and communities more responsibility and (b) publish her estimate of the cost to the public for governance of the waterways, and new opportunities purse of dealing with consequential health problems in for growing income and volunteering, making efficiencies such dogs; and if she will make a statement. [22427] and forming supportive partnerships. The Government will also give the new charity the best start it can afford, Mr Paice: We have no current plans to promote a with the transfer of the property portfolio and a long-term public education and awareness campaign concerning contract. The move should, therefore, improve the long genetic health problems in pure-bred dogs. We will be term financial sustainability of the waterways. looking to the recently created and independent Dog Local Authorities: Freedom of Information Advisory Council to consider how best to promote public awareness of genetic health problems in dogs. Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for I am not aware that genetic health problems in dogs Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many generate significant costs to the public purse as most of separate requests for data from local authorities her the costs are met by individual owners. Department made in each of the last three years for Fencing: Suffolk which figures are available. [25314] Richard Benyon: DEFRA does not record this Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for information centrally, and it would cost a disproportionate Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many and amount to collect it from across the Department. The what proportion of fencing contractors in Suffolk are Government are currently reviewing the data requirements licensed by the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. placed on local authorities with the aim of reducing [25460] them and making them transparent. This will result in a single comprehensive list of all the data that local Mr Paice: This information is not available. The government is expected to provide to central Government, Gangmasters Licensing Authority (GLA) has responsibility including that required by DEFRA, from April 2011. for publishing a register of licensed gangmasters. This lists all gangmasters who have applied for and been Mackerel granted a licence and is open to public view. The GLA does not collect information about the specific activity Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for that a gangmaster may carry out within a particular Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she has sector. made an assessment of the effects of climate change on Floods: Insurance (a) sea temperature and (b) the movements of mackerel. [25238]

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: The last set of UK climate projections, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent published in summer 2009, provided a wide range of representations she received from the insurance information on the effects of future climate change on industry on flood risk. [25226] the marine environment, including coastal waters and shelf seas. As well as sea temperature, the projections Richard Benyon: DEFRA is working closely with the cover sea level rise, and changes in storm surges, offshore insurance industry on flood risk management. We continue waves, salinity, and shelf currents: to make progress on the current Statement of Principles http://ukclimateprojections.defra.gov.uk/content/view/1969/ between the Government and insurers on flood risk 500/ management. The Marine Climate Change Impacts Partnership, in At the Flood summit in September key representatives which DEFRA is a partner, contributed to these projections from the insurance industry, the National Flood Forum, and to the climate change chapter in Charting Progress 2, the Environment Agency and local government agreed published in summer 2010 on a roadmap towards 2013, when the current Statement of Principles between the Government and insurers on http://chartingprogress.defra.gov.uk/ flood risk management expires. It was agreed that flood by UK Marine Monitoring and Assessment Strategy. insurance should remain widely available. The ‘Ocean Processes’ feeder report for Charting Progress 2 includes a detailed assessment of current observations Three working groups will be now be formed to of changing sea temperatures in UK waters. continue the dialogue on flood insurance and risk reduction and put in place a roadmap to take us beyond 2013. The most recent report card from the Marine Climate Change Impacts Partnership, also published in summer Inland Waterways 2010 http://www.mccip.org.uk/annual-report-card/2010-2011.aspx Karen Bradley: To ask the Secretary of State for provides the most comprehensive assessment of marine Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she climate change impacts to date. One of the impacts that plans to take to ensure that the charitable body which has been described in this report is the shifting distribution succeeds British Waterways attracts sufficient funding of mackerel. Fisheries scientists at CEFAS and Marine 179W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 180W

Scotland have stated there is still much uncertainty species to tackle threats faced by migratory waterbirds. around whether or not this is a transient phenomenon The AEWA covers 255 species of waterbirds that are associated with observed cold seawater temperatures off ecologically dependent on wetlands for at least part of Norway in the winter of 2009-10, whether this simply their annual cycle, with over 100 of these species regularly reflects a spreading out of the mackerel population to occurring in the UK. new areas because the mackerel stock is currently large and densely distributed, or whether it reflects a long-term Renewable Energy: Finance shift in migration routes. The impact and consequences Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for that such changes might have on the effectiveness of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment fishery closure areas and allocation of quotas between she has made of the likely effects of the abolition of countries in the long-term also remain uncertain. regional development agencies on the disbursement of grants to the anaerobic digestion industry. [25241] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her Richard Benyon: DEFRA will ensure that delivery Department has taken to secure a settlement between arrangements for the Rural Development Programme the UK, Iceland and the Faroe Islands on mackerel for England continue to be in place following the abolition quotas. [25236] of the regional development agencies. This will minimise disruption for potential beneficiaries, and will be based Richard Benyon: Ministers and officials are working on the Department taking a stronger national lead for hard to help secure agreement on future management of the remainder of the programme period to 2013. Assistance North Atlantic mackerel. The Government have made for small-scale anaerobic digestion projects will continue strong representations, including to the EU Fisheries to be eligible for support under the programme. Commissioner, as well as to the Icelandic and Faroese Governments, to underline the importance of reaching United Nations Convention on the Law of Non- agreement that safeguards the long term sustainability navigational Uses of International Watercourses of both the fish stock and our industry. DEFRA is working closely with industry and with colleagues in Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for devolved Administrations to help find a way forward. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy Officials have been involved in two rounds of Coastal is on the ratification of the United Nations Convention States talks and will be participating in further talks on the Law of Non-navigational Uses of International planned for 25 and 26 November. Watercourses. [25225] Richard Benyon: The United Kingdom has not signed Nature Conservation: Birds the 1997 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Non-Navigational Uses of International Watercourses. Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Since the time for signing has passed, the process now Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her would be for accession rather than ratification. Department is taking steps to improve the protection The UK has no immediate plans to accede to the of endangered species of wild birds. [25005] Convention.

Richard Benyon: All wild birds are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, which implements PRIME MINISTER the EC wild birds directive in Great Britain. This provides a powerful framework for the conservation of wild Sergei Magnitsky birds, their eggs, nests and habitats. In addition to this protection, raptor persecution is currently one of the Mr MacShane: To ask the Prime Minister if he will UK’s wildlife crime priorities. discuss with the Government of Russia the death in A number of bird species are listed as priority species custody of Sergei Magnitsky during his forthcoming under the UK Biodiversity Action Plan and also under visit to Moscow. [25265] section 41 of the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006. This list sets out the species of The Prime Minister: The Government remains very principal importance in England for the purpose of concerned by Mr Magnitsky’s case. We are awaiting the conserving biodiversity and guides decision-makers such conclusion of the official investigation into this case as public bodies. Agri-environment schemes also contribute announced by President Medvedev in November 2009. to the conservation of wild birds by enabling farmers to A date for my visit to Moscow has not yet been set. provide suitable habitat and nesting areas for farmland birds. Trade in endangered species of wild birds is controlled NORTHERN IRELAND by the convention on international trade in endangered Tobacco: Smuggling species, an international agreement between governments whose aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens Julie Hilling: To ask the Secretary of State for of wild animals and plants does not threaten their Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with (a) survival. the Northern Ireland Executive and (b) the The UK is a signatory to the African-Eurasian Migratory government of the Republic of Ireland on (i) tobacco Waterbird Agreement (AEWA) and has played a key smuggling and (ii) links between tobacco smuggling role in its development and implementation. This is one and terrorist groups; and if he will make a statement. of the key agreements under the convention on migratory [25223] 181W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 182W

Mr Paterson: Tobacco smuggling falls under the Education Maintenance Allowance: Advertising responsibilities of the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland. Operational responsibility for the detection Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for and seizure of illicit cigarettes and tobacco lies with Education how much his Department spent on HMRC and UKBA in partnership with the PSNI who advertising the availability of education maintenance also work in conjunction with An Gardaí Síochána and allowance between May 2005 and May 2010. [20678] other agencies on both sides of the border on tackling this issue. Mr Gibb: This is a matter for the Young People’s Learning Agency (YPLA) who operate the education The Secretary of State meets regularly with the Northern maintenance allowance for the Department for Education. Ireland Justice Minister and with his counterparts in Peter Lauener the YPLA’s chief executive, will write to the Republic of Ireland to discuss as necessary matters the hon. Member for Tamworth with the information relating to security in Northern Ireland. requested and a copy of his reply will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Education Maintenance Allowance: Lewisham EDUCATION Building Schools for the Future Programme Joan Ruddock: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many people resident in Lewisham, Deptford constituency have received the education Liz Kendall: To ask the Secretary of State for maintenance allowance in each year since its inception; Education when and by what means his Department what the average value of the allowance was; and what informed Leicester city council that it was required to expenditure his Department made on the provision of make savings of up to 40 per cent. in respect of its such allowances to residents of (a) Lewisham, Building Schools for the Future Programme funding. Deptford constituency and (b) the London borough of [20444] Lewisham in each such year. [21092] Mr Gibb [holding answer 1 November 2010]: The Mr Gibb: This is a matter for the Young People’s Department for Education has asked Partnerships for Learning Agency (YPLA) who operate the education Schools (PfS) to work with local authorities and private maintenance allowance for the Department for Education. sector companies to identify savings in projects which Peter Lauener the YPLA’s chief executive, will write to are continuing within the Building Schools for the the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford with the Future programme. On Thursday 21 October, PfS information requested and a copy of his reply will be telephoned a number of local authorities, including the placed in the Libraries. city of Leicester, about the identification of savings. Free Schools: Greater London This follows the Secretary of State’s announcement of 5 July, in which, referring to ongoing BSF projects, he Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for said that he would Education which organisations have expressed an “continue to look at the scope for savings in all these projects.” interest in providing a free school in the London We have not set a target for the level of savings to be borough of Waltham Forest. [14559] realised for Leicester or for any other local authority. There will be different options for each local authority Mr Gibb: The Department does not hold, collect or as to how savings could be made. We will work through receive expressions of interest about free schools. To these options with local areas over coming weeks. date, three organisations have submitted proposals to establish free schools within the London borough of Building Schools for the Future Programme: Telford Waltham Forest. Free Schools: Road Traffic David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether funding for the Building Schools Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Education for the Future programme project in Telford and what steps he plans to take to ensure that plans for the Wrekin has been reduced since July 2010; and if he will establishment of free schools take local road traffic place in the Library a copy of the funding profile for conditions into account. [20846] that project. [21229] Mr Gibb: The Department is working with the Mr Gibb: No changes have yet been made to the Department for Communities and Local Government funding for Telford and Wrekin’s Building Schools for which is currently consulting on changes to the planning the Future programme. However, we have asked local system to make it easier for free schools to be set up in authorities and private sector companies to identify buildings with a range of existing uses. The consultation, savings in projects which are continuing within the which closes on 10 December, seeks views on transport Building Schools for the Future programme. This follows and traffic conditions among other issues. the Secretary of State’s announcement of 5 July, in Free Schools: Teachers which, referring to ongoing BSF projects, he said that he would Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Education “continue to look at the scope for savings in all these projects.” what his Department’s policy is on authorising free Any revisions to funding allocation models will not be schools to employ as (a) teachers and (b) head finalised until we have worked with the local authorities teachers people who do not hold an official teaching to agree how their schemes can be taken forward to qualification or a national professional qualification achieve best value for money. for headship. [20741] 183W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 184W

Mr Gibb: Innovation, diversity and flexibility are at schools with (a) fewer than 800, (b) 800 to 1,000 and the heart of the Free Schools policy. We want the (c) more than 1,000 pupils attained five GCSEs, dynamism that characterises the best independent schools including English and mathematics at A* to C grades to drive up standards in the State sector. In this spirit we in each year since 2000; [17918] will not be setting overly prescriptive requirements in (2) what proportion of pupils at (a) stand alone relation to qualifications: instead we will expect business secondary schools and (b) secondary departments of cases to demonstrate how Governing Bodies intend to all-through schools attained five GCSEs at A* to C guarantee the highest quality of teaching and leadership grades in each year since 2000; [17919] in their schools. Free Schools are legally Academies, (3) what proportion of pupils at secondary schools and as in Academies generally head teachers are not with (a) fewer than 800 pupils, (b) 800 to 1,000 pupils required to hold the National Professional Qualification and (c) more than 1,000 pupils attained five GCSEs at for Headship. No school will be allowed to proceed A* to C grades in each year since 2000. [18224] unless its proposals for quality teaching are soundly based. Ensuring each Free School’s unique educational Mr Gibb: In the tables, figures from 2000-04 have vision is translated into the classroom will require talented been based on pupils aged 15 at the start of the academic people with a diverse range of experience. year. Figures from 2005-10 have been based on pupils GCSE reaching the end of Key Stage 4. The percentage of pupils achieving the equivalent of Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for five or more GCSEs at grade A*-C is given in the Education (1) what proportion of pupils at secondary following table:

Percentage School age ranges1 Number of pupils on roll Stand-alone secondary schools All-through schools 0-799 800-1,000 1,001 +

2000 47.7 42.5 43.3 50.5 51.9 2001 48.5 51.1 44.4 49.9 52.7 2002 50.1 52.4 46.0 51.9 53.9 2003 51.7 51.8 47.2 52.8 55.3 2004 52.6 50.6 48.3 53.1 56.1 2005 55.6 62.4 51.4 56.3 59.1 2006 57.9 59.6 52.3 58.9 61.6 2007 60.6 59.6 54.1 61.4 64.4 2008 65.0 61.3 56.9 66.3 68.7 2009 70.7 64.7 60.9 71.5 73.5 20102 76.4 48.2 64.0 77.4 78.8

The percentage of pupils achieving the equivalent of five or more GCSEs at grade A*-C including English and maths GCSEs is given in the following table:

Percentage School age ranges1 Number of pupils on roll Stand-alone secondary schools All-through schools 0-799 800-1,000 1,001 +

2000 38.0 40.2 35.4 41.6 41.7 2001 38.7 48.3 36.6 40.8 42.6 2002 40.1 49.8 38.0 42.7 43.6 2003 40.0 48.9 37.8 41.9 43.5 2004 40.9 47.3 38.8 42.3 44.3 2005 43.1 56.3 40.1 44.4 46.6 2006 44.5 51.6 39.7 45.5 48.0 2007 46.2 44.9 39.0 45.7 49.6 2008 48.6 38.3 38.7 46.9 51.8 2009 51.2 45.8 40.4 49.5 54.1 20102 55.6 29.4 42.4 53.1 57.8 1 Both all-through and stand-alone schools must have an upper age limit of 16-18. The lower limit of all-through schools must be 3-5 while that for stand-alone schools must be 11. 2 The provisional figures for 2010 include accredited International GCSEs (iGCSE). In order to better capture the attainment of pupils in the Independent sector, iGCSEs that were not accredited at the beginning of the period of study but have since been accredited have been counted. Source: The Secondary School and College Performance Tables 185W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 186W

GCSE: Standards we will take steps to strengthen teachers’ powers to search pupils; clarify their powers to use force; and Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for remove the requirement to give 24-hours written notice Education how many schools performed below the when giving pupils detentions. We will also give teachers National Challenge threshold for English and the strongest possible protection from false accusations. mathematics GCSE results in 2010. [20045] I refer the hon. Member to my written statement of 7 July 2010, Official Report, column 11WS. The full text Mr Gibb [holding answer 28 October 2010]: This of my statement can be viewed online at: information will be published in the secondary school www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/ performance tables in January 2011. cm100707/wmstext/100707m0001.htm We will announce further proposals later this year Pockets of Deprivation: Finance and take forward any necessary primary legislation at the earliest opportunity. Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what funding each local authority received Schools: Finance through the Pockets of Deprivation element of the Dedicated Schools Grant in each year since 2008-09; Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for and if he will make a statement. [21423] Education how many (a) primary and (b) secondary schools have been supported by Creative Partnership Mr Gibb [holding answer 4 November 2010]: funding in each of the last three years. [20164] £40.91 million was included in the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) for each year of the spending period of Mr Vaizey: I have been asked to reply. 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11 for pockets of deprivation. The Creative Partnership programme is run by Creativity The notional allocations for the local authorities who Culture and Education (CCE) with funding from Arts qualified for this funding can be found on the summary Council England. CCE have provided data on the number sheet of the final DSG allocations for 2008-09 which is of primary and secondary schools which have completed available on the Department’s website at: Creative Partnership projects in academic years 2008/09 www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance and 2009/10 and the number currently working with Schools: Buildings Creative Partnerships for 2010/11, which is set out in the table:

Matthew Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Academic year Primary schools Secondary schools Education (1) what estimate his Department made of the number of modular buildings which were used as 2008/09 1,361 500 classrooms in (a) 1980 and (b) 1997; [17025] 2009/10 1,415 488 (2) what estimate he made of the number of 2010/11 (to date) 1,368 450 classrooms which were in use in (a) 1980 and (b) 1997. Schools: Secondary Education [17026]

Mr Gibb: No estimates have been made by the Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Department of the number of classrooms or the number Education (1) what the average contextual value added (a) of modular buildings used as classrooms in 1980 and score has been for stand alone secondary schools (b) 1997. and secondary departments in all-through schools in each year since 2000; [17917] Schools: Discipline (2) what the contextual value added score is for secondary schools with (a) fewer than 800 pupils, (b) Julie Hilling: To ask the Secretary of State for 800 to 1,000 pupils and (c) more than 1,000 pupils in Education what steps he plans to take to ensure each year since 2000. [18010] discipline in the classroom and promote good behaviour; and what timetable he has set for the Mr Gibb: Contextual value added was introduced implementation of such a policy. [11971] into the Achievement and Attainment Tables in 2006 to replace the value added model. The following tables Mr Gibb: It is this Government’s intention to give show the average contextual value added score for the heads and teachers the powers they need to ensure years 2006 to 2009 for maintained mainstream schools. discipline in the classroom and promote good behaviour. The number of schools used in the calculation is given In a statement to the House on 7 July I announced that in brackets.

School age ranges1 Stand alone secondary schools All through schools (secondary department) Lower 95% Upper 95% Lower 95% Upper 95% CVA score Number confidence limit confidence limit CVA score Number confidence limit confidence limit

2006 1000.0 (2,884) 999.8 1000.1 999.9 (4) 993.7 1006.0 2007 1000.7 (2,816) 1000.5 1000.9 996.4 (4) 990.3 1002.5 2008 1000.9 (2,865) 1000.7 1001.1 1000.1 (7) 995.8 1004.4 2009 1001.1 (2,847) 1000.9 1001.3 997. (14) 994.1 1000.8 187W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 188W

Number of pupils on roll: 1-799 800-1,000 Lower 95% Upper 95% Lower 95% Upper 95% CVA score Number confidence limit confidence limit CVA score Number confidence limit confidence limit

2006 1000.2 (802) 999.8 1000.6 999.4 (728) 999.0 999.7 2007 1001.6 (789) 1001.2 1002.0 1000.2 (704) 999.9 1000.6 2008 1001.1 (860) 1000.7 1001.4 1001.0 (718) 1000.7 1001.3 2009 1001.7 (865) 1001.3 1002.1 1001.2 (714) 1000.8 1001.6

Number of pupils on role: 1,001 or more CVA score Number Lower 95% confidence limit Upper 95% confidence limit

2006 1000.6 (1,576) 1000.4 1000.8 2007 1000.8 (1,552) 1000.6 1001.0 2008 1001.0 (1,515) 1000.8 1001.2 2009 1001.0 (1,505) 1000.7 1001.2 1 Both all-through and stand-alone schools must have an upper age limit of 16-18. The lower age limit of all-through schools must be 3-5 while that for stand-alone schools must be 11. Note: For contextual value Added scores it is standard practice to give the upper and lower confidence limits. If 1000 lies within the range of the confidence limits, the CVA score is not showing significantly positive or negative value added. Source: The Secondary School Achievement and Attainment Tables

Schools: Standards level with the devolved Administrations. Various technical and resource issues would need to be resolved before Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for mutual recognition could be pursued. Education what plans he has to provide support for underperforming schools. [20044] Bus Services: Finance Mr Gibb [holding answer 28 October 2010]: The forthcoming Schools White Paper will set out the detail of our approach to reducing underperformance in our Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport school system. We believe that the way to secure sustainable whether he plans to (a) undertake and (b) publish an improvement is to give responsibility to schools and for equality impact assessment in relation to the change in schools to learn from other schools. Our aim will be to the level of funding for the Bus Service Operators challenge and support schools in a robust and clear Grant. [22984] manner. Central to our approach, especially in tackling the most significant areas of underperformance, will be Norman Baker: An equality impact assessment in our Academies programme, and schools working together relation to the change in the level of funding for the Bus to share best practice. Service Operators Grant has been undertaken and will We have also allocated £110 million to establish an be published on the Department’s website by the end of education endowment fund (EEF) designed to raise November. standards in underperforming schools. The EEF will distribute money to local authorities, academy sponsors, Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for charities and other groups that bring forward innovative Transport pursuant to the answer of 2 November 2010, proposals to improve performance in our most challenging Official Report, column 702W, on bus services: finance, schools. what the key assumptions are in respect of (a) fares and (b) the effect on the level of service of the reduction in Bus Service Operators Grants. [23724] TRANSPORT Bus Services: Concessions Norman Baker: We have used analysis published in recent impact assessments on the Bus Service Operators Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Grant (BSOG) which suggests that removing BSOG in Transport whether he has plans for mutual recognition its entirety would have, on average, increased fares by of concessionary bus passes across the UK; and around 7% and reduced service levels by around 7% outside whether he has had discussions with the devolved London. After considering this analysis, the Government administrations on this matter. [25633] decided to limit reduction in BSOG to 20%. Norman Baker: There are no immediate plans to To help estimate sub-national impacts we have used introduce mutual recognition of concessionary bus passes the Department’s new National Bus Model. The key across the UK. Concessionary travel is a devolved policy assumptions used in the model are in the main taken area so the arrangements in Scotland, Wales and Northern from the Transport Research Laboratory report ‘The Ireland differ from those in England. The Concessionary demand for public transport: a practical guide’. They Bus Travel Act 2007 contains a power to allow, through include assumptions of how demand for bus travel future regulations, for mutual recognition of bus passes changes in response to changes in bus fares, service across the UK. Regular discussions take place at official levels, GDP and car ownership. 189W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 190W

Crayford Station London and South Eastern Railway: Fares

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Mark Reckless: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether his Department has received a new Transport what his policy is on the application of a cap application for funding from Southeastern Railway to on fare rises on train services provided by Southeastern provide step-free access at Crayford Station. [24766] under its franchise agreement which enable a different rate of fare rises to that applied by other franchisees; Norman Baker: We have been unable to commission and if he will make a statement. [25177] any bids for Access for All Small Schemes funding while the comprehensive spending review was ongoing, although Mrs Villiers [holding answer 19 November 2010]: The we hope to have further funding available for access Southeastern Franchise Agreement agreed by the last improvements in due course. Government specified that from 2007-11, regulated fares However, in response to a letter from me the managing on the network would be capped at RPI +3%. There are director of Southeastern Railways has indicated his no plans to alter this requirement during 2011. intension to install a lockable side gate and Oyster Next year will be the final one in which Southeastern validator on Platform 2 which will allow Bexley council has a different fares regime to most other parts of the to upgrade the footpath linking the station to the roadway network. From 2012, RPI+3 will become the standard to provide step free access. formula for prices regulated by the Department for Transport, including Southeastern. Cycling England: Cost-effectiveness Motorways: Speed Limits Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether his Department has undertaken a Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for cost-benefit assessment of Cycling England’s Transport what criteria are used to determine the imposition of a 50 miles per hour speed limit on programmes. [24457] motorways. [24157] Norman Baker: Cycling England was established in Mike Penning: Current motorway standards do not 2005 with a remit to ″Get More People Cycling, More necessitate permanent 50 mph speed limits. Some older Safely, More Often″. Over the period 2008-09 to 2010-11 motorways designed in the 1960s, and some motorways Department for Transport (DfT) invested around in urban areas, which do not meet the current visibility £140 million in programmes to deliver this objective. requirements or which have sub-standard geometric Cycling England’s role was to advise on how best to features, have had lower speed limits introduced appropriate spend these funds and to oversee the delivery of the to the visibility and geometry to improve safety. The projects. principle criterion used to determine the speed limit is Analysis of results of the first three years of funding, forward visibility. of which DfT contributed £7.5 million, for the initial six National advice on setting temporary speed limits for Cycling Demonstration Towns has provided a benefit road works is given in Traffic Signs Manual, chapter 8, cost ratio in the range 2.6 to 3.5, and a 27% increase in section D3.7. This identifies appropriate speed limits cycle trips as shown by automatic cycle counters. based on the relative risk to road users posed by the Current programmes continue to the end of March barriers, cones etc which are used to provide protection 2011 are yet to be evaluated. to road workers. This risk is normally the same whether road workers are present or not and speed limits therefore Freight: Grants need to be in place even when workers are not on-site. The Highways Agency produced additional advice in Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for July 2007 (Chief Highways Engineer Memo 203/07) on Transport what plans he has for the Freight Facilities how to apply temporary speed limits at road works Grant. [21319] using the risk based approach in chapter 8. This advice applies to the motorway network in England; the application Mike Penning: The Freight Facilities Grant scheme of this advice on other motorways is the responsibility remains suspended while the Department reviews its of the relevant highway authority. capital programme budgets following the settlement agreed in the comprehensive spending review. Further Preston-Colne Railway Line details on the future of the scheme will be made public shortly. Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent assessment he has made of the High Speed Rail Network level of usage of the Preston-Colne rail line. [25908]

Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Villiers: The Secretary of State has not made a Transport what plans he has to make capacity on the recent assessment of the passenger usage of the Preston proposed high speed rail network available to rail to Colne line. It is for each train operator to undertake freight. [23184] passenger counts on the routes it operates so train capacity can be best matched to passenger demand. Mr Philip Hammond: None. HS2 is proposed as a Railways: Complaints dedicated high speed passenger line. However, capacity released on existing lines could be used for additional Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for freight and other services. Transport how many complaints he received on the 191W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 192W way in which (a) East Coast Mainline, (b) Grand that road safety will remain a priority for them. Fixed Central, (c) Northern Rail, and (d) Transpennine camera operation remains an option for local authorities Express communicate with their customers in the latest who remain free to invest in new cameras using their period for which figures are available. [25531] own resources.

Mrs Villiers: For the most recent quarterly period the Transport: Finance Department for Transport has received six complaints concerning East Coast Mainline, nil for Grand Central, Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for five for Northern Rail and one for Transpennine Express, Transport how much funding he has allocated to each about the way in which the operators commutate with scheme in the supported group of local transport their customers. schemes; and (a) how much in total has been allocated to this group and (b) was formerly allocated through regional funding allocations. [23115] Railways: Freight Norman Baker: We have not allocated a specific sum Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for of money to individual schemes in the supported pool Transport what research his Department has (a) nor to the pool in total. The total of the most recently commissioned and (b) evaluated on effective criteria requested or approved Department for Transport capital for assessing the environmental effects of transporting contribution for all the schemes in the supported pool, goods. [23292] as identified in the previous regional funding allocations, is around £408 million. We estimate that no more than Mike Penning: None. However, I have announced my £325 million of this would fall in the spending review intention to support freight industry led measures to period. We have invited the promoting local authorities reduce the environmental effects of transporting goods. to explore how costs may be reduced and additional The Department for Transport is working with industry funding contributions sought before making a best and to identify the most effective measures. The work includes final funding bid to the Department. Decisions on the an evaluation of environmental benefits. funding for individual schemes will be made in January 2011. Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport WORK AND PENSIONS whether his Department’s review of the Renewable Employment Schemes Transport Fuels Obligation will include consideration of the use of biomethane as a fuel for transport. Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work [25240] and Pensions whether people participating in the work programme will have access to skills training. [24617] Norman Baker: Biomethane is already eligible to receive certificates under the renewable transport fuel Chris Grayling: The Work Programme is being designed obligation, which sets annual targets for biofuel use in as a ’black box’ programme: we are not specifying what the UK. Currently biomethane counts for 0.03% of UK support providers should offer, but we will expect them renewable transport fuels. to find the most effective means of getting each individual The renewable energy directive (RED) requires the referred back to work. This support may include the UK to source 10% of transport energy from renewable provision of skills training. sources by 2020. We will be consulting on measures to Where it can be demonstrated that a customer has a implement the RED shortly. Fuels made from wastes skills need that is preventing them from getting work, and residues, including biomethane, will count twice they will also have access to skills provision offered by towards the RED 10% target. the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Roads: Accidents and Pensions what integrated back-to-work support will be provided to jobseekers under the work Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for programme. [24618] Transport what assessment he has made of the potential combined effect of reductions in the level of Chris Grayling: The Work Programme will be a ‘black the road safety grant and of the ending of funding box’ programme: providers will be free to design support from his Department for speed cameras on the level of according to the needs of the individuals referred to road traffic (a) accidents and (b) deaths. [24463] them and to local circumstances. We believe this will be more effective than a ‘one-size-fits-all’programme prescribed Mike Penning: No such assessment has been made. by central Government. The Government continue to provide substantial funding Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for local authorities. The Government are clear that and Pensions how mentors for the work programme local government needs increased flexibility to take will be recruited. [24620] decisions locally to deliver the solutions that suit them best. Through lifting restrictions on how local government Chris Grayling: The Work Programme will be a ‘black spends its money by removing ring-fences, local authorities box’ programme: providers will be free to design support are now free to determine their priorities and to make based on the needs of individuals and target the right decisions about where savings are found. I would expect support at the right time. 193W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 194W

As such, it will be up to providers, working with local Chris Grayling: The Work Programme will support a partners, to decide whether they wish to use mentor wide range of customers—from jobseeker’s allowance services to help support people into work, and it will be recipients who have been out of work for some time, to up to them how they are recruited. customers who may previously have been receiving However, a key element of the New Enterprise Allowance incapacity benefits for many years. will be to provide customers with access to voluntary Most current provision, including all legacy New business mentors who will provide guidance and support Deal programmes, the Flexible New Deal and Pathways as they develop their business idea through to the early to Work will be replaced by the Work Programme by stages of trading. summer 2011. Delivery options have yet to be finalised and agreed, Local Enterprise Partnership but we envisage a role for Jobcentre Plus working alongside the voluntary and enterprise sectors to create new Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work partnerships to build a network of mentors and ensure and Pensions when he expects a local enterprise unemployed people can get the business support they partnership for Newcastle, Tyneside and need. Northumberland to be established. [24972]

Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Robert Neill: I have been asked to reply. and Pensions pursuant to his contribution of On 28 October, the Government published their 11 November 2010, Official Report, column 444, on Local Growth White Paper, which set out their welfare reform, whether (a) single regional contracts approach to achieving local economic growth by shifting will be issued for the proposed work programme or (b) power to local levels and helping to create the right the proposed work programme in each area will involve conditions for growth and recovery. This included both private and voluntary sector organisations. [24659] announcing the first local enterprise partnerships which would proceed. Chris Grayling: The information requested is as follows: Government will work with, the relevant local authority (a) The Department will ensure there are at least two providers and business partners in Newcastle Tyneside and delivering Work Programme services across each contract package Northumberland and other parts of the country area. This will ensure there is ongoing competition between where no local enterprise partnership has been providers to drive up performance. Each regional ‘lot’ will contain announced, in order to ensure future proposals allow up to two contract-package-areas. all areas to progress, and I have asked my officials to (b) For the Work Programme to be successful we expect that engage directly with local partners. Government will prime providers will need to work with a broad range of sub- welcome revised proposals from these places as they contractors and local partners in order to deliver the personalised become ready. and localised services required in today’s labour market. We would expect, though do not intend to require, that each provider Lone Parents: Personal Income will have a range of sub-contractors including organisations from the private and voluntary sector. Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work We are actively encouraging local partners to work and Pensions how many single income families with a with potential Work Programme providers in their areas household income between £43,875 and £50,000 reside in the development of bids that are responsive to local in Wales. [17923] circumstances. The Framework specification places clear expectations on suppliers to engage with partners in Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. developing and delivering proposals, and the Work The information requested is not available as HM Programme specification will further endorse the Revenue and Customs does not collect data at such requirement for partnership engagement in the development levels of detail. of proposals and delivery of the programme. Pension Funds: Trusts We have also taken active steps to encourage the involvement of voluntary sector organisations in the Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for delivery of the Work Programme, including events in Work and Pensions (1) what recent assessment he has London, Bristol, Port Talbot and Glasgow for voluntary made of the level of understanding among pension sector organisations to hear about the programme and fund trustees of their fiduciary duty to take into how they can get involved; an event hosted by the account environmental, social and governance issues Centre for Economic and Social Inclusion, supported where they are financially material; [25832] by the Department, which provided potential sub- (2) whether he has had discussions with the Pensions contractors, particularly those from the voluntary sector Regulator on the adequacy of guidance and training or smaller organisations, with information on what for pension fund trustees in respect of their fiduciary being a sub-contractor would mean for them; and a duty to take into account environmental, social and round table event with key voluntary sector groups to governance issues where they are financially relevant. ensure that they are fully informed on plans for the [25833] Work Programme. Steve Webb: Trustees do not have a specific fiduciary Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work duty to consider environmental, social and governance and Pensions pursuant to his oral statement of issues, but they are required by law to ensure that their 11 November 2010, Official Report, columns 438-40, scheme has a statement of investment principles to on welfare reform, which existing programmes will be disclose its investment policies. This must include a included in the work programme. [24660] declaration of the extent (if at all) to which social, 195W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 196W environmental, or ethical considerations are taken into Annual real growth in social security spending account in the selection, retention, and realisation of Percentage investments. 2009-10 7 Notes: It is therefore for trustees to decide how best to 1. The coverage of the figures is not necessarily consistent over the entire address social, environmental and ethical considerations period, because of transfers of responsibility between departments. The main while meeting their fiduciary duty to serve members’ transfers of responsibility affecting the figures shown here are: Child benefit, expenditure has been included until 2002-03; responsibility for it best interests. transferred to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in April 2003. The Pensions Regulator promotes trustee knowledge War pensions expenditure has been included until 2001-02; responsibility transferred to the Veteran’s Agency in 2002-03. and understanding of the requirements and responsibilities Family credit has been included until 1999-2000; it was replaced by working of trustees through its trustee toolkit. families tax credit in October 1999. Disability working allowance has been included until 1999-2000; it was replaced Ministers and officials regularly meet the Pensions by disabled person’s tax credit in October 1999. Regulator to discuss a wide range of issues affecting the A number of changes to funding for residential care and nursing homes in income support, and payments for care and support through housing benefit, regulator and its responsibilities. occurred in 2002 and 2003. 2. Figures include all spending on housing benefit and council tax benefit, and their predecessors, regardless of the source of funding. Social Security Benefits 3. Figures exclude tax credits, benefits delivered by other Departments (except for housing benefit, council tax benefit and predecessors) and almost all benefit spending in Northern Ireland. Mr Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Source: Pensions what estimate he has made of the growth rate Calculated from DWP Benefit Expenditure Tables of social security spending on benefits and pensions, excluding tax credits in real terms in each year from Social Security Benefits: Disability 1980-81 to 2009-10. [24615] Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Steve Webb: The information is in the table. Work and Pensions how many people in receipt of disability-related benefits do not receive disability Annual real growth in social security spending living allowance. [23347] Percentage Maria Miller: The information requested is provided 1980-81 2 in the following table: 1981-82 12 The table shows the number of people claiming each 1982-83 7 disability benefit who are not in receipt of disability 1983-84 7 living allowance as of February 2010.

1984-85 3 Incapacity 1985-86 3 benefit/ All severe Employment 1986-87 4 disability disablement Attendance and support benefits allowance allowance allowance 1987-88 -2 Number of 3,067,060 917,900 1,772,430 378,800 1988-89 -5 people 1989-90 -1 claiming each disability 1990-91 4 benefit who are not in 1991-92 11 receipt of disability 1992-93 10 living 1993-94 7 allowance Notes: 1994-95 1 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Some additional disclosure control has also been applied 1995-96 2 2. Totals will not sum due to overlaps between the benefits 1996-97 0 3. Employment and support allowance (ESA). ESA replaced incapacity benefit and income support paid on the grounds of incapacity for new claims 1997-98 -1 from 27 October 2008 4. Caseload totals show the number of people with an underlying entitlement 1998-99 0 to an allowance, so for attendance allowance it includes people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in 1999-2000 2 hospital; for incapacity benefit it includes credits only cases Source: 2000-01 1 DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 2001-02 3 Disability living allowance is awarded to customers 2002-03 0 aged under 65 with mobility and/or care needs as a result of a disability or health condition, and is intended 2003-04 -7 to cover some of the costs of these mobility or care 2004-05 2 needs. It is not an income-replacement benefit like 2005-06 2 employment and support allowance, and can be paid to customers who are in employment. 2006-07 0 Incapacity benefit and employment and support 2007-08 3 allowance are income-replacement benefits payable to 2008-09 5 claimants who are unable to work as a result of their 197W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 198W disability or health condition. Incapacity benefit and Departmental Grants employment and support allowance customers may not be entitled to disability living allowance if they do not have mobility or care needs. Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what grants have Conversely, some disability living allowance customers been awarded by his Department in 2010-11 to date; may not be entitled to incapacity benefit or employment what grants he plans to award in each of the next two and support allowance, for example if they are able to years; what the monetary value is of each such grant; work. and to which organisations such grants are made. Attendance allowance is awarded to customers over 65 [25039] who need help with personal care or supervision to keep them safe. A customer cannot receive both disability living allowance and attendance allowance. Robert Neill [holding answer 18 November 2010]: The total maximum amounts payable by the Department Social Security Benefits: Fraud for Communities and Local Government for each grant programme above £1 million in 2010-11 are in table 1 as follows. Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions when his Department plans to publish The totals for formula grant paid by my Department the report of the pilots of the use of voice risk analysis (which comprises Revenue support grant and national to detect benefit fraud. [25828] non-domestic rates) for 2011-12 onwards were published in table 2.8 of the spending review 2010 document. The Chris Grayling: A summary of the evaluation of the other grants for 2011-12 and 2012-13 which have so far use of voice risk analysis was published on the DWP been confirmed to local authorities are given in table 2 website on 18 October 2010. The full report will also be as follows. Details of other programmes will be released published on the website 24 November 2010 and a copy in due course. will be placed in the House of Commons Library. As part of my Department’s broader transparency initiative, grant spending data over £500 from 2008-09 onwards can be found on the Department’s website for public scrutiny. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Table 1: 2010-11 grant allocations made £ million (to one decimal point) Carbon Monoxide: Alarms Local authorities 2010-11 Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for National Non-Domestic Rates 21,587.8 Communities and Local Government what plans his Revenue Support Grant 3,122.0 Department has to encourage registered social Area Based Grant (DCLG only— 2,162.7 landlords to install carbon monoxide detectors in inc. Supporting People) PFI Special Grant 909.0 homes. [25429] Decent Homes—Area Length 509.0 Management Organisations Andrew Stunell: The Department has no specific plans Private Sector Renewal 301.7 to encourage registered social housing providers to Decent Homes—Local Authority 258.8 install carbon monoxide detectors in their properties. Disabled Facilities Grant 169.0 However, registered providers of social housing (formerly Fire programmes (Fire authorities 96.5 known as ‘registered social landlords’) are required to and Local Authorities) meet all statutory requirements that provide for the Improvement, Transformation and 79.4 health and safety of the occupants in their properties. Efficiency (to regional leads) Compliance with this is monitored by the Tenant Services Homelessness and Housing Reform 73.3 Authority through its regulatory standards framework. (Local Authority) Current Health and Safety legislation does not require New Deal for Communities 78.4 the installation of carbon monoxide alarms but do Greater London Authority grant 48.1 Growth Areas, Points and Eco 29.1 require the proper maintenance (and replacement if Towns necessary) of gas boilers, flues etc, including annual gas Local Economic Growth Incentive 18.6 safety checks. Capital Housing Strategy for Older People 18.5 Council Housing: Sales (Local Authority) Leaders’ Boards 16.0 Migration Impacts Fund (Local 12.3 Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Authority) Communities and Local Government if he will make it Housing Management 11.6 his policy to permit local authorities to retain 100 per Emergency Financial Assistance 7.0 cent. of the capital receipts of the sale of council Local Authorities dwellings; and if he will make a statement. [25883] Renewing Neighbourhoods 5.9 Community Sector (Local 4.0 Andrew Stunell: At present 75% of the capital receipts Authority) from the sale of council dwellings to owner-occupiers, Implementing Planning Reforms 4.6 are paid to the Secretary of State. The spending review Supporting People Admin 4.1 Rent Officer Services and Pension 2.5 concluded that this arrangement will continue during Liabilities the period 2011-15. 199W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 200W

Table 1: 2010-11 grant allocations made Table 2: Confirmed grants to local government 2011-13 (except RSG) £ million (to one decimal point) £ million Grant title 2011-12 2012-13 Procurement Efficiency in Social 2.0 Housing Decent Homes Arms 260.00 352.00 Thames Gateway 1.6 Length Management LA Emergency Budget Reduction 1.0 Order grant Departmental Press: Subscriptions Arm’s Length Bodies Homes and Communities Agency 3,861.3 Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympics contributions 431.1 Communities and Local Government how much (a) Valuation Office Agency 150.2 his Department and (b) the non-departmental public Planning Inspectorate 47.7 bodies for which he is responsible spent on press Ordnance Survey 47.2 cuttings services in each of the last 12 months. [25495] Tenant Services Authority 33.2 Thames Gateway London 39.2 Robert Neill: In the last 12 months the Department’s Development Corporation Communication Directorate spent £117,105 on national Thames Gateway Thurrock 26.0 Development Corporation and regional press cuttings services. Data from our Commission for Local 14.8 accounting system show the following spend (excluding Administration VAT) per month: Residential Property Tribunal 12.0 Service National cuttings supplier—Durrants Regional cuttings Audit Commission 11.6 (£) supplier—COI (£) Total (£) West Northants Development 11.0 Corporation 2009 Valuation Tribunals 9.8 November 8,678.71 2,591.89 11,270.60 Local Government Standards Board 6.4 December 7,947.50 3,930.40 11,877.90 Firebuy/Fire Service College 1.8 Community Development 1.5 2010 Foundation Leasehold Advisory Service 1.5 January 8,288.44 5,232.73 13,521.17 National Housing and Planning 1.2 February 6,558.47 5,847.16 12,405.63 Advice Unit March 7,473.89 4,704.23 12,178.12 National Tenant Voice 1.2 April 8,353.12 3,461.07 11,814.19 May 5,510.57 3,041.35 8,551.92 June 5,752.14 3,554.22 9,306.36 Voluntary Sector/other July 5,736.30 4,885.50 10,621.80 Community Action 56.3 August 4,364.43 3,303.61 7,668.04 Revenue Support Grant to specified 45.0 September 1,582.76 3,881.74 5,464.50 bodies (eg IDeA) October 2,425.16 n/a 2,425.16 Homelessness and Housing Reform 19.5 Coalfields Regeneration Trust 17.7 In September 2010 the regional cuttings service was Groundwork 14.1 cancelled and the national cuttings service moved to Implementing Planning Reforms 7.1 an electronic only format with a limited list of Commission for Architecture and 6.9 recipients. Neither DCLG Ministers nor officials in the Built Environment Department now receive hard copy press cuttings. Ministers Cohesion and Faith 6.3 have taken the view that an excessive and unnecessary Zero Carbon Buildings (to Zero 6.0 Carbon Hub) amount of taxpayers’ money was being spent on press Race Equality and Diversity 5.9 cuttings. New Dimension (to Chief Fire 5.6 The Department estimates that the cancellation of Officers) the regional cuttings service and streamlining of the Coalfields Enterprise Fund 5.0 national cuttings service will save approximately £16,000 Migration Impact Fund 1.7 and £19,000 respectively in the remainder of this financial Housing Strategy for Older People 1.3 year. Preventing Extremism 1.1 The Department does not hold centralised information on press cuttings services conducted for its non- Table 2: Confirmed grants to local government 2011-13 (except RSG) departmental public bodies. £ million Grant title 2011-12 2012-13 Fire Services: Emergency Calls Open Source Planning 5.00 10.00 Fire (revenue and capital) 141.58 129.57 Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Preventing Homelessness 90.00 90.00 Communities and Local Government if he will update New Homes Bonus 196.00 250.00 Fire and Rescue Service Circular 9/2009 in respect of Local Authority Social 65.00 0.00 average response times to (a) dwelling fires, (b) Housing Grant commercial building fires and (c) road traffic Disabled Facilities Grant 180.00 180.00 collisions; and if he will make a statement. [25890] 201W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 202W

Robert Neill: Average response times by Fire and Average response times1 by fire and rescue services, England2, April 2009 to 3 Rescue Authority area are shown in the following table March 2010 Other Road for the latest period for which incident data are available. Dwelling Commercial building traffic 4 5 6 7 Average response times1 by fire and rescue services, England2, April 2009 to fires building fires fires collisions March 20103 England 7.3 7.4 7.9 9.4 Other Road 1 As per previous figures, excludes fires where (i) there was heat and smoke Dwelling Commercial building traffic damage only, (ii) the call was made after the fire was known to be fires4 building fires5 fires6 collisions7 extinguished, (iii) where the response time calculated gives an hour or more. 2 Excludes Greater Manchester and Buckinghamshire as data provided were Avon 7.5 7.5 8.1 9.9 incomplete. Bedfordshire 7.6 7.5 8.0 9.6 3 Data are provisional. 4 In order to be consistent with data source prior to April 2009, chimney fires Berkshire 7.5 7.8 8.3 10.0 not included in calculation. 5 Buckinghamshire2 ————Commercial buildings are taken to be offices and call centres and buildings in the following sectors: retail, wholesale, hotels, holiday accommodation, Cambridgeshire 9.1 8.5 9.5 10.7 food and drink, transport, vehicle repair and communications. 6 Cheshire 8.4 8.3 8.9 10.5 Response times to ‘Other buildings’ are also shown to aid comparison with past data since the report “Review of Fire and Rescue Service Response Cleveland 5.6 5.9 6.1 6.7 Times”, which was summarised in Circular 9/2009, did not have a category Cornwall 11.0 10.2 10.2 12.5 ‘Commercial Buildings’. It calculated response times for the four main categories of fire location type: dwelling fires, other buildings fires, road Cumbria 8.6 8.1 8.8 11.4 vehicles fires and outdoor fires. 7 Response times to road traffic collisions in the report “Review of Fire and Derbyshire 7.5 8.3 8.2 9.5 Rescue Service Response Times”, which was summarised in Circular 9/2009, Devon and 9.3 8.7 9.1 11.4 were based on data provided by 10 Fire and Rescue Services. Somerset Source: CLG analysis of Incident Recording System data Dorset 8.4 8.2 9.5 10.1 Durham 8.0 7.0 7.8 9.3 Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for East Sussex 7.1 7.6 7.4 8.6 Communities and Local Government what estimate he Essex 8.1 8.6 9.0 10.2 has made of the likely effects on (a) the number of Gloucestershire 9.5 9.3 9.0 11.0 fatalities and (b) the costs of damage resulting from Greater 6.2 6.0 6.2 6.8 (a) dwelling fires, (b) commercial building fires and (c) London road traffic collisions resulting from his Department’s Greater ————forecasts of changes in fire and rescue response times 2 Manchester contained in Fire and Rescue Service Circular 9/2009; Hampshire 7.2 7.3 7.3 9.1 and if he will make a statement. [25891] Hereford and 8.9 7.8 9.5 10.8 Worcester Hertfordshire 7.7 7.2 7.4 9.2 Robert Neill: No further estimates have been made beyond those in the Report summarised in Fire and Humberside 7.0 7.4 7.9 10.5 Rescue Service Circular 9/2009. Isle Of Wight 9.0 8.4 7.1 9.9 Isles Of Scilly — — 9.0 — Kent 6.9 8.0 7.9 9.3 Fire Services: North West Lancashire 6.8 6.8 7.3 8.7 Leicestershire 7.9 8.3 8.6 10.7 Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Lincolnshire 9.1 8.1 9.4 11.3 Communities and Local Government by what date he Merseyside 5.6 5.5 5.7 6.1 expects the North West Fire Service control centre in Norfolk 8.9 8.3 8.7 10.4 Warrington to be operational. [26019] North 8.9 8.4 9.8 12.4 Yorkshire Robert Neill: The North West control centre would Northamptonshire 8.2 8.6 8.6 11.4 not become operational until after mid-2011 on current Northumberland 9.4 8.9 9.7 11.3 timetables. It is not one of the first three control centres Nottinghamshire 6.6 6.1 7.0 9.2 in which the IT system is required to be completed by Oxfordshire 9.5 9.0 9.0 12.3 the main FiReControl contractor EADS (now branded Shropshire 8.8 7.8 9.4 11.0 Cassidian) for that date. South 7.4 7.8 7.7 8.4 I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the Yorkshire hon. Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher) on Staffordshire 8.2 8.4 8.6 10.1 15 November 2010, Official Report, column 537W, for Suffolk 8.9 9.9 10.1 11.9 steps that we have taken to ensure that EADS will meet Surrey 8.5 8.6 8.5 10.1 their contractual obligations. Tyne and 5.3 5.1 5.5 6.0 The FiReControl project, initiated by the last Wear Government, is over-budget and behind schedule. As Warwickshire 9.0 6.9 7.7 10.6 with all major Government projects, it is being West 6.6 6.7 6.8 6.8 reviewed to ensure value-for-money for the taxpayer. Midlands We have been clear that EADS must deliver to time, West Sussex 8.7 9.6 9.6 10.1 cost and quality. The new Government are committed West 6.8 6.5 6.9 7.9 to ensuring value for money for the taxpayer, improving Yorkshire resilience and stopping the forced regionalisation of the Wiltshire 9.3 9.6 10.3 11.6 fire service. 203W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 204W

Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Essex and Suffolk in the 12 months prior to 1 October Communities and Local Government how much 2010. However, every local authority in England and money has been spent on locating the North West Fire Wales is required to keep a publicly accessible register Service control centre in Warrington. [26020] of information relating to initial notices given to them. Land Supply Robert Neill: For the current running costs of all nine control centres, including the North West Control Centre in Warrington, I refer the hon. Member to the answer Alec Shelbrooke: To ask the Secretary of State for given to the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Communities and Local Government what his policy is Graham) on 18 October 2010, Official Report, on the inclusion of an allowance for windfall land in column 505W. the five-year land supply calculation. [23748] The cost of construction and installation of the control centres was borne by the developers as the Robert Neill [holding answer 12 November 2010]: buildings were procured through a private developer The extant planning policy on housing is set out in scheme. Planning Policy Statement 3: Housing (PPS3) issued by the last Government. PPS3 states that allowances for Fire Services: Westmorland windfalls should not be included in the first 10 years of land supply unless local planning authorities can provide Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for robust evidence of genuine local circumstances that Communities and Local Government what proportion prevent specific sites being identified. In these circumstances, of (a) full-time and (b) retained pumps in an allowance should be included but should be realistic Westmorland and Lonsdale constituency (i) on each having regard to the Strategic Housing Land Availability shift and (ii) at each station were available for service Assessment, historic windfall delivery rates and expected on each day of the last 12 months. [26017] future trends. In the coalition agreement, the new Government Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally stated that they will publish and present to Parliament a and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. It simple and consolidated national planning policy framework is for each local authority to decide how best to provide covering all forms of development. Planning for housing fire and rescue-related services, allocating resource according policy will be considered as part of this. We announced to evaluation of risks. in the Department’s Business Plan that we will publish the national planning policy framework by April 2012. Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for We will make a further announcement on how we Communities and Local Government how many (a) propose to take forward the national planning framework full-time and (b) retained fire pumps there are in and the implications for specific areas of planning Westmorland and Lonsdale constituency; and how policy. many staff are attached to each. [26018] Local Enterprise Partnerships Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government when he expects The latest available centrally held data show that local enterprise partnerships to attain legal status. Cumbria Fire and Rescue Service had a total of 53 [24305] pumping appliance in use. Greg Clark: On 28 October, the Government published Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for their Local Growth White Paper, which set out their Communities and Local Government what steps his approach to achieving local economic growth by shifting Department is taking to monitor present staffing levels power to local levels and helping to create the right on (a) full-time and (b) retained Fire Service pumps in conditions for growth and recovery. This included Westmorland and Lonsdale constituency. [26074] announcing the first 24 local enterprise partnerships which have been given the go-ahead to establish their Robert Neill: The Department monitors staff numbers boards and begin dialogue with central Government on on an annual basis for each fire and rescue authority how we can help them realise the ambitions set out in covering (i) whole-time firefighters, (ii) retained firefighters, their proposals. (iii) fire control staff and (iv) non-uniformed staff. The Government do not intend to define local enterprise Housing: Construction partnerships in legislation. Governance structures will need to be sufficiently robust and clear to ensure proper Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for accountability for delivery. Partnerships will differ across Communities and Local Government how many initial the country in both form and functions in order to best notices were registered for house builds in each local meet local circumstances and opportunities. A partnership authority area in (a) Essex and (b) Suffolk in the may need legal personality or a specified accountable 12 months prior to the updated building regulations for body in some circumstances, such as if it wished to own new homes coming into force on 1 October 2010. assets or contract to deliver certain functions. The [25156] constitution and legal status of each partnership will be a matter for the partners, informed by the activities that Andrew Stunell: The Department for Communities they wish to pursue. and Local Government does not hold a central record We expect partnerships to be fully open and transparent, of initial notices registered for new house builds in in line with the requirements of local authorities. 205W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 206W

Local Government Finance Planning

Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (1) when he Communities and Local Government what plans his expects the power of planning inspectors to amend Department has to bring forward legislative proposals local plans to be rescinded; [26139] to require the publication of each item of local government spending above £500 from January 2011; (2) what variations planning inspectors may make to and what steps his Department plans to take to ensure local authorities’ core strategies following their that the information is presented in an appropriate examinations in public. [26140] style and context. [25705] Robert Neill: The Government want to see local plans that reflect the aspirations of their community, while Robert Neill: All local authorities are expected to maintaining the planning inspector’s independent scrutiny publish data on items of spend of £500 and over from role. Measures will be included in the Localism Bill January 2011. Around 100 councils are already which will be introduced to Parliament shortly. publishing this information. Given the importance of transparency to citizens and communities, I will continue to challenge and support those authorities yet to publish their data. Next month I intend to issue for consultation ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE a Code of Recommended Practice, under section 2 of the Local Government, Planning and Land Act 1980. Carbon Sequestration This will address issues such as the scope, formatting and timing of the duty to publish the data. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State In the meantime the Local Public Data Panel has for Energy and Climate Change when he expects to published guidance on spend transparency, which announce the winner of the first round of the carbon the Local Government Association has taken as a basis capture and storage demonstration programme. [25752] for its practical guides for councils on publication of Gregory Barker: We aim to award the contract for the £500 spend and senior salaries. The Code of Recommended first carbon capture and storage demonstration project, Practice will not cover data archiving and legacy issues. currently the subject of an ongoing procurement process, This is an important and complex issue with implications by the end of 2011. for many bodies and is being considered in a broader context. Climate Change: Conferences

Local Government: Surveys Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change who the members will be of the Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for UK delegation to the UN Climate Change Conference Communities and Local Government how many local 2010 in Cancun, Mexico. [24988] authorities provided a return to his Department’s Gregory Barker [holding answer 22 November 2010]: Gypsy and Traveller survey in each of the last five The UK will be sending 46 delegates to the UN Climate times the survey was conducted; and how many of Change Conference in Cancun, Mexico, including two those returns were zero in each such survey. [25319] UK Ministers, 29 officials from the Department of Energy and Climate Change, two Ministers and three Andrew Stunell: The Department’s Gypsy and Traveller officials from the devolved Administrations, three officials survey is the bi-annual count of Gypsy and Traveller from the Department for International Development, caravans on both authorised and unauthorised sites three officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth across England. The data from the previous five counts Office, two representatives from the British embassy in show the following returns: Mexico, one official from the Department for Food, Environment and Rural Affairs and one official from Number of local Number of local the Department for Transport. This compares with the authorities that authorities with zero total of 70 officials (not including the then Prime Minister’s Period of count provided returns caravan counts delegation) sent to the COP in Copenhagen in 2009. January 2010 305 50 The Head of Delegation will be the Secretary of July 2009 297 46 State for Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. January 2009 337 57 Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne). July 2008 338 49 January 2008 342 54 Departmental Grants

Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the monetary value Communities and Local Government what proportion of grants awarded by his Department was in 2009-10; of local authorities provided returns for the National and how much he expects to award in grants in (a) Rodent Survey in each of the last five years. [25320] 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12. [26113]

Andrew Stunell: This information is not held centrally. Gregory Barker: The Department awarded The survey is produced by the National Pest Technicians £877.85 million in grants in 2009-101. Association rather than by central Government. (a) In 2010-11 I expect to award £804.25 million; and 207W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 208W

(b) Following the spending review the Department is Gregory Barker: The Green Deal will provide the undertaking a business planning exercise, so cannot yet opportunity for householders to take action to improve set out the sum I will award in grants during 2011-12. the energy efficiency of their homes, and protect themselves 1 This is available on page 77 of the Department’s Annual Report against price rises through greater energy saving. The 2009-10: new energy company obligation (ECO), which will take http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Annual%20Reports% over from the current carbon emissions reduction target 20Accounts%20and%20Business%20Plans/2010/218-decc- and community energy saving programme when they resource-2009-10.pdf come to an end, will run in parallel with the Green Deal. The ECO will focus particularly on those, such as Energy: Conservation the most vulnerable and those in hard to treat homes, who require extra help. Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how much funding he We expect energy companies to play a greater role plans to allocate to the provision of energy efficiency than under previous obligations in helping ensure that measures in domestic and non-domestic buildings in more of the poorest and most vulnerable can afford to the comprehensive spending review period; and how heat their homes adequately.Alongside insulation measures, this funding will be administered. [25736] we expect them to be able to offer basic heating systems for those who most need them. Gregory Barker: Some existing policies, funded by obligations on energy companies, already have funding Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for for part of the CSR period. To December 2012 energy Energy and Climate Change what steps his companies are expected to invest more than £2 billion in Department is taking to support vulnerable consumers the promotion of energy efficiency measures to affected by energy price increases. [25780] householders to achieve their obligations under the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target (CERT) and Community Energy Saving Programme(CESP). Charles Hendry: From April 2011, regulations made under the powers in the Energy Act 2010 will require DECC will continue to fund a targeted Warm Front energy suppliers to provide greater help with the financial programme and associated fuel poverty activity from a costs of energy bills to more of the most vulnerable fuel budget of £110 million in 2011-12 and £100 million in poor households—with total support of £250 million in 2012-13. Departmental allocations to particular DECC 2011-12 rising to £310 million in 2014-15. programmes, including to support energy efficiency through the proposed Green Deal, will be subject to the conclusion of the Department’s business planning process. Details Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for of the Department’s overall CSR settlement are available Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to on the DECC website: consider the merits of incorporating the provision of http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/news/csr_hmt_releas/ HM Treasury-funded grants for low income and fuel csr_hmt_releas.aspx poor households in the proposed Green Deal; and if he The most significant funding for Green Deal will will make a statement. [26092] come through private sector investment. Gregory Barker: A new Energy Company Obligation, Energy: Housing to replace the current Carbon Emissions Reduction Target and Community Energy Saving Programme, will Alec Shelbrooke: To ask the Secretary of State for run alongside Green Deal with a greater focus on low Energy and Climate Change what criteria he plans to income vulnerable households and those in hard to put in place to determine whether an energy efficiency treat properties. The obligation will include a wider measure will qualify for support under the proposed range of measures which improve energy performance, Green Deal programme. [25808] such as heating systems. Gregory Barker [holding answer 22 November 2010]: Warm Front will continue until the Green Deal and The Energy Bill will contain powers for the criteria and Energy Company Obligation are launched. We are working eligible measures to be set out in secondary legislation, to improve the cost-effectiveness of the Warm Front which will be consulted on and taken forward next year. Scheme by ensuring that activity is better targeted at the poorest and most vulnerable. In addition, from April A key element of the Green Deal finance arrangements next year, energy suppliers will be required to provide is that only measures that can demonstrate payback greater help with the financial costs of energy bills to through energy efficiency savings, which are equal to or more of the most vulnerable fuel poor households. greater than the financing costs, will qualify. A future energy company obligation will provide Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for additional financial support for vulnerable households Energy and Climate Change how many households in and those in difficult to treat homes. Combining these the (a) private rented, (b) social and (c) owner- finance sources will allow more difficult or expensive occupied sector in (i) England, (ii) Hyndburn and (iii) measures to be delivered under the Green Deal framework. Haslingden are classed as being in fuel poverty. [26187] Fuel Poverty Gregory Barker: In 2008, there were 3.3 million fuel Karl Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy poor households in England. 0.6 million of these households and Climate Change what steps he plans to take to were in the private rented sector, 0.6 million were in the ensure that his proposed Green Deal assists those in social sector and 2.1 million were in the owner-occupied fuel poverty. [23442] sector. 209W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 210W

In 2006, the most recent year for which sub-regional ATTORNEY-GENERAL figures are available, there were around 5,500 fuel poor households in the local authority of Hyndburn. Data Human Trafficking: Convictions for the town of Haslingden is not available. Splits by tenure are only available at a national level. Fiona Bruce: To ask the Attorney-General what assessment he has made of the adequacy of the rate of Global Climate Fund convictions for offences of human trafficking. [25731] The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy (CPS) takes this issue very seriously and is working and Climate Change what his policy is on the creation closely with its partners to ensure that strong cases are of a global climate fund under the United Nations built, so that prosecutions for human trafficking offences Framework Convention on Climate Change. [26042] lead to more convictions in court. Where the CPS is unable to prosecute for a human trafficking offence, Gregory Barker: We support setting up the Green they will when appropriate prosecute for other offences Climate Fund, as set out in the Copenhagen Accord, such as assisting unlawful immigration to a member and are working towards a decision at COP16 in Cancun state (facilitation), rape, kidnapping, false imprisonment, to achieve this as part of a balanced package of outcomes. threats to kill and causing or inciting prostitution for Renewables Obligation gain.

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made DEFENCE of the cost to the public purse of the renewables obligation in each year (a) between 2002-03 and Armed Forces: Mental Health Services 2010-11 and (b) of the 2010 spending review period. [21380] Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the oral answers of 8 November Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. 2010, Official Report, column 5, on mental health care provision, what steps his Department plans to take to The Office for National Statistics (ONS) has classified assist service personnel and veterans with a dual the renewables obligation as involving imputed tax and diagnosis of mental illness and alcohol-related spending. The ONS’s estimates of the historic tax and disorders. [25421] spend through the renewables obligation can be found in Table 11.1 of the 2010 Blue Book. This can be found Mr Robathan: The Defence Mental Health Services at: (DMHS) provide a wide range of assessment and treatment http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/ facilities for service personnel who are thought to be bluebook2010.pdf suffering with mental health disorders, including alcohol Forecasts are the responsibility of the Independent misuse and related co-morbidity. Techniques used to Office of Budget Responsibility. manage disorders will vary with each individual case, but may include a combination of motivational interviewing and pharmacological treatment, provided by trained personnel. Care is also provided by primary care facilities LEADER OF THE HOUSE for less complex cases, and in almost all cases primary care will be involved in supporting the various interventions Departmental Press: Subscriptions that the DMHS provide. Where appropriate the chain of command will support personnel who wish to reduce Mr Jenkin: To ask the Leader of the House how or cease their alcohol consumption, and the single much his Office spent on press cuttings services in each service alcohol-use policies are clear that excessive alcohol of the last 12 months. [25484] use which impacts upon a person’s ability to perform their duties will not be tolerated. Sir George Young: The Office of the Leader of the The national health service has lead responsibility for House of Commons is part of the Cabinet Office. I the provision of help to ex-service personnel experiencing refer my hon. Friend to the answer given today by my mental health problems, including alcohol misuse. The right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office. Ministry of Defence is working with the Department of Members: Pensions Health to ensure that the mental healthcare needs of former service personnel are met, including through the implementation of recommendations made by my hon. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Leader of the House when Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) he expects to be in a position to bring forward in his report “Fighting Fit”, which seeks to address proposals for reform of the pensions scheme for hon. mental health issues in the armed forces community. Members. [25661] Armed Forces: Recruitment Sir George Young: I set out the Government position in my written ministerial statement of 26 July 2010, Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Official Report, column 70WS. We will make a further Defence how many people resident in each (a) statement following the conclusion of the work of the Government Office region, (b) local authority area Independent Public Service Pension Commission and and (c) parliamentary constituency were recruited to the publication of their final report. each of the armed forces in each year since 2000. [21438] 211W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 212W

Mr Robathan: The requested information is not held recruited together with the small number recruited via centrally. The following tables, however, provide the careers offices. Army officer entrant figures before 2007-08 number of entrants from recruitment centres around were collected on a different basis than currently and the UK. This will give an indication of the geographical are not included. Figures for those recruited directly to spread of recruitment but does not provide a comprehensive particular regiments have not been included. picture of where these individuals may reside as they Figures are not available for all years requested as may not always apply to join the services through their over time various IT systems have been used which are nearest career office or may choose other means by not now compatible with current systems. which to apply. Royal Navy and Royal Marine officers are primarily In the following tables the following abbreviations are recruited via regional officer careers liaison centres, used: each of which covers a large area of the UK. Prior to AFCO—Armed Forces Careers Office 2009-10 RN/RM officers were not recruited through ACIO—Army Career Information Office armed forces career offices. The recruitment data for army officers is based on data related to the location of CIO—Career Information Office. the schools and universities from which Officers are OCLC—Officer Career Liaison Office

RN and RM officer entrants 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

OCLC Birmingham 20 29 38 43 30 25 48 OCLC London 42 54 61 50 89 77 64 OCLC Manchester 57 74 76 66 57 50 79 OCLCNorthernIreland5324464 OCLC Peterborough 30 32 23 46 39 29 46 OCLC Plymouth 38 53 53 48 56 34 61 OCLC Rosyth 22 27 36 35 26 20 28 Admiralty Interview Board 80 62 48 37 58 71 49 Naval Recruiting — 14 6 3 22 25 7 AFCO London ——————24 AFCO Luton ——————— AFCO Portsmouth —————— 4 AFCO Reading —————— 1 CIO Guildford — — — — — — 3 RN and RM Careers —————— 3 Southampton

RN and RM other rank entrants 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

CIO Derby 57 47 55 51 65 58 52 AFCO Aberdeen 45 45 36 47 26 21 14 AFCO Belfast 66 45 40 53 44 41 45 AFCO Birmingham 99 68 76 62 81 78 82 AFCO Bournemouth 65 74 103 104 101 117 93 AFCO Brighton 45 43 58 55 69 54 73 AFCO Bristol 61 61 78 81 73 71 82 AFCO Cambridge 14 15 17 6 6 16 29 AFCO Cardiff 66 88 78 77 70 101 80 AFCO Carlisle 46 31 51 45 50 59 55 AFCO Chatham 43 33 45 43 67 33 57 AFCO Coventry 41 31 37 45 41 40 37 AFCO Dundee 64 51 42 42 50 42 45 AFCO Edinburgh 92 82 46 45 35 80 64 AFCO Exeter 60 57 79 64 71 82 101 AFCO Glasgow 76 108 89 67 89 114 90 AFCO Gloucester 52 44 41 51 48 57 69 AFCO Hull 106 80 88 90 89 72 95 AFCO Inverness 18 23 33 20 21 25 20 AFCO Ipswich 47 28 48 51 41 50 45 AFCO Leeds 79 95 103 88 62 100 140 AFCO Leicester 59 42 44 35 39 26 40 AFCO Lincoln 54 66 69 63 59 80 68 AFCO Liverpool 152 173 172 150 168 175 168 AFCO London 93 99 111 155 132 157 116 AFCO Luton 68 53 47 76 64 81 65 AFCO Manchester 153 137 146 131 159 193 179 213W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 214W

RN and RM other rank entrants 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

AFCO Middlesbrough 87 79 90 81 68 91 81 AFCO Newcastle 148 155 162 153 142 163 143 AFCO Norwich 51 52 55 43 48 53 50 AFCO Nottingham 85 61 61 74 49 74 55 AFCO Oxford 46 44 36 42 34 48 40 AFCO Peterborough 24 37 43 54 47 36 40 AFCO Plymouth 231 216 193 169 217 219 171 AFCO Portsmouth 205 150 168 156 170 179 162 AFCO Preston 89 66 76 86 77 106 91 AFCO Reading — 15 31 41 43 55 48 AFCO Redruth 66 67 50 59 47 62 69 AFCO Sheffield 83 82 89 69 85 85 89 AFCO Shrewsbury 48 43 59 37 45 36 45 AFCO Stoke 30 23 37 26 32 37 64 AFCO Swansea 74 51 81 52 71 72 85 AFCO Wrexham 26 31 45 34 39 31 40 CIO Canterbury 25 28 24 40 56 50 53 CIO Chelmsford 30 38 45 72 65 69 56 CIO Darlington 66 42 49 71 61 70 54 CIO Dunfermline 31 32 31 31 30 28 23 CIO Guildford 43 50 56 61 62 87 55 CIO Taunton(RN & RM) 89 70 71 55 75 59 52 CIO Wolverhampton 20 22 14 22 18 19 23 RN&RM Careers Office Ilford 19 32 21 45 47 45 47 RN&RM Careers 46 39 58 52 52 61 55 Southampton Royal Navy St Helens 57 51 41 57 49 59 54 Naval Recruiting HQ 1122321

Army officers 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

East474753 London 76 71 65 North East 11 56 58 North West 32 61 41 Scotland 74 61 48 South East 55 100 84 Wessex 7 27 46 West Midlands 65 84 58 Northern Ireland 8 9 16 East Anglia 8 6 14 East Midlands 3 3 1 Home Counties 7 3 3 South 3 6 2 South West 1 5 6 Wales (North) — 4 9 Wales (South) 1 5 11

Army other ranks 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

ACIO Abergavenny ———————— 1 1 ACIO Aldershot 93 115 126 113 131 94 89 78 116 122 ACIO Ashington 70 60 71 47 46 59 54 44 39 66 ACIO Barnsley 102 121 130 121 89 66 100 88 77 110 ACIO Barnstaple 56 54 41 56 48 60 61 49 52 37 ACIO Barrow-in- 93 77 70 75 47 42 27 47 55 40 Furness ACIOBath ——————— 1— 8 ACIO Bathgate 52 55 77 49 59 36 51 41 40 47 ACIO Birkenhead 155 144 125 122 86 101 99 141 106 88 ACIO Bishop Auckland 74 72 78 80 46 71 66 42 50 54 ACIO Blackburn 93 95 114 85 71 122 115 71 70 74 ACIO Blackpool 126 99 114 93 86 103 107 69 94 113 ACIO Bolton 113 139 141 153 118 127 81 94 163 155 215W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 216W

Army other ranks 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

ACIO Boston 39 49 70 67 48 51 66 58 70 53 ACIO Bradford 141 143 172 170 131 139 154 119 143 158 ACIO Bridgend —————2460445544 ACIO Bromley 134 176 180 110 65 93 96 108 97 102 ACIO Burnley 94 87 107 103 88 109 108 103 96 120 ACIO Burton-on-Trent 108 113 130 120 72 105 104 87 99 106 ACIO Canterbury 87 105 90 63 58 70 71 55 64 46 ACIO Carmarthen 44 60 34 39 30 42 35 39 33 42 ACIOCatterick35243225182439314664 ACIO Chelmsford 54 112 144 150 106 107 143 73 62 64 ACIO Chester 103 92 94 81 55 75 75 75 82 68 ACIO Chesterfield 85 99 94 113 76 109 122 63 75 74 ACIO Chichester 40 31 22 8 32 2 — 23 36 37 ACIO Coleraine 94 74 80 55 74 47 52 32 49 42 ACIO Coventry 162 161 168 167 150 123 148 191 194 169 ACIO Croydon 88 157 205 168 68 133 134 106 91 106 ACIO Darlington 84 83 106 90 32 69 93 75 83 81 ACIO Derby 98 90 97 63 66 77 79 91 105 116 ACIO Doncaster 140 132 132 143 84 133 143 112 151 127 ACIODover47616542475045485876 ACIO Dumbarton 34 42 62 48 42 61 52 18 36 39 ACIO Dumfries 79 61 74 77 61 47 59 26 47 51 ACIO Dunfermline 72 64 58 112 56 65 44 35 42 46 ACIO Durham 129 125 122 120 81 95 92 67 77 59 ACIOElgin 43422740323325221725 ACIO Enniskillen 46 29 38 30 27 14 16 31 35 66 ACIO Galashiels 54 36 55 46 24 22 23 31 27 35 ACIO Greenock 37 22 41 48 20 33 41 14 29 47 ACIO Grimsby 80 112 117 110 84 78 79 82 64 93 ACIO Halifax 72 64 67 71 44 50 38 59 50 63 ACIO Hamilton 102 81 123 139 92 79 52 51 79 81 ACIOHaverfordwest48515154544840274236 ACIOHereford93747678537780759280 ACIO Huddersfield 111 133 140 104 81 63 95 41 84 72 ACIO Ilford 125 149 186 210 92 97 107 122 115 130 ACIO Ipswich 68 71 67 58 71 73 97 97 112 73 ACIO Irvine 146 80 149 148 111 97 88 57 63 106 ACIO Kirkcaldy 67 65 73 83 42 52 51 38 47 43 ACIO Lancaster 87 86 89 78 69 68 64 67 98 82 ACIO Luton 68 90 132 135 85 116 158 132 132 125 ACIO Mansfield 99 117 109 113 98 74 82 90 130 123 ACIOMerthyrTydfil————205070546251 ACIO Milton Keynes 79 100 96 95 44 72 78 83 87 44 ACIO Newport 123 158 124 118 67 105 126 102 75 99 ACIO Newport (IOW) 51 47 35 40 30 25 34 24 25 31 ACIO Northampton 108 88 131 127 118 112 129 143 171 194 ACIO Oldham 86 88 91 111 103 95 101 78 95 115 ACIOOxford63739582555583506857 ACIOPaisley62429069484031252857 ACIO Perth 54 34 45 36 25 30 37 27 33 35 ACIO Pontypridd 101 142 120 124 89 80 78 74 60 72 ACIO Portadown 66 63 55 45 27 35 24 34 54 68 ACIO Rochdale —————3183766976 ACIO Salisbury 99 108 109 77 60 70 92 106 96 72 ACIO Scarborough 65 85 104 48 56 51 70 62 66 39 ACIO Southampton 278 84 200 85 65 71 98 79 98 100 ACIO South Shields 69 83 80 87 49 63 71 70 57 68 ACIO Stirling 108 101 85 71 63 86 90 45 45 93 ACIO Stockport 109 105 104 118 104 108 121 109 98 108 ACIO Sunderland 133 117 144 116 79 90 98 122 117 95 ACIO Taunton 108 94 115 84 66 65 72 79 81 76 ACIOTorquay62818776534463686746 ACIO Tunbridge Wells 22 23 34 29 15 36 30 26 27 14 ACIO Victoria 299 461 525 461 340 267 344 314 520 214 217W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 218W

Army other ranks 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

ACIO Wakefield 128 129 129 107 95 85 119 141 150 129 ACIO Warrington 136 176 196 101 81 98 102 82 76 104 ACIO Wembley 124 158 166 194 128 129 111 124 127 132 ACIO Wigan 124 113 130 126 87 101 108 104 119 95 ACIO Wolverhampton 167 147 189 169 103 111 119 181 217 204 ACIO Worcester 104 120 69 117 111 117 140 142 130 152 ACIO Workington 61 53 57 43 42 36 60 44 51 45 ACIO York 67 76 107 58 54 74 87 97 95 99 AFCO Aberdeen 102 66 102 83 86 82 51 53 33 48 AFCO Belfast 378 299 401 312 265 214 246 260 291 318 AFCO Birmingham 668 681 737 665 508 505 573 744 832 664 AFCO Bournemouth 215 226 203 164 123 150 205 204 208 150 AFCO Brighton 190 220 248 206 202 146 161 191 208 184 AFCO Bristol 170 213 227 225 180 144 149 138 170 150 AFCO Cambridge 245 267 376 369 262 327 386 329 359 353 AFCO Cardiff 490 518 400 402 274 380 440 388 339 325 AFCO Carlisle 203 175 195 161 128 115 135 150 157 160 AFCO Chatham 270 311 341 269 210 255 253 236 248 241 AFCO Dundee 281 266 263 299 195 207 181 153 178 205 AFCO Edinburgh 288 330 384 316 263 203 234 187 185 245 AFCO Exeter 294 299 348 295 234 240 276 300 283 238 AFCO Glasgow 647 721 791 723 521 516 523 309 396 586 AFCO Hull 305 307 436 255 213 256 304 294 335 315 AFCO Inverness 125 91 100 113 73 101 78 56 56 68 AFCO Leeds 652 656 693 631 523 547 677 572 630 624 AFCO Leicester 241 220 287 269 201 220 263 260 335 393 AFCO Lincoln 233 289 323 255 191 227 253 234 231 267 AFCO Liverpool 670 701 683 527 410 485 504 515 512 510 AFCO London 819 1189 1400 1478 1102 1034 966 1093 1306 856 AFCO Manchester 694 698 724 764 615 664 668 681 738 783 AFCO Middlesbrough 589 515 712 610 366 471 481 375 395 395 AFCO Newcastle 505 472 560 488 351 348 440 384 401 434 AFCO Norwich 198 204 174 174 172 222 264 240 310 210 AFCO Nottingham 423 427 413 412 353 398 441 401 501 524 AFCO Peterborough 107 91 119 128 97 112 135 128 131 125 AFCO Plymouth 251 269 197 235 182 201 228 196 198 141 AFCO Portsmouth 505 333 474 329 295 282 352 330 363 385 AFCO Preston 517 467 553 472 398 543 513 450 488 527 AFCO Reading 399 266 293 294 174 221 245 233 266 190 AFCO Redruth 98 107 74 62 62 73 90 77 101 58 AFCO Sheffield 378 371 378 413 277 303 376 335 341 383 AFCO Shrewsbury 303 313 259 303 274 353 317 332 338 348 AFCO Southend-on- 109 210 225 280 202 181 217 205 215 200 Sea AFCO Stoke-on-Trent 299 303 332 294 224 292 326 298 304 357 AFCO Swansea 335 318 241 225 204 240 275 224 293 249 AFCO Wrexham —————————— Bury ————————— 5 Colchester Forward — 1 — — — 1 6 66 81 84 Operating Base Crewe ——411438313659 Kendal — — 1——————26 Kirkby ——————— 1—17 StHelens — 1 1———— 1 124

RAF officer and other ranks entrants 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04

AFCO Cambridge 38 65 53 38 20 30 40 AFCO Leicester 57 92 35 26 27 47 89 AFCO Lincoln 184 233 117 75 61 73 139 AFCO Luton 27 23 4 5 18 24 45 AFCO Norwich 56 108 54 38 53 55 101 AFCO Nottingham 103 142 95 58 33 84 127 AFCO Peterborough 73 111 93 43 36 52 88 219W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 220W

RAF officer and other ranks entrants 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04

AFCO Nottingham 11 31 24 11 1 0 0 AFCO Hull 73 95 66 51 23 41 75 AFCO Leeds 132 123 85 69 60 79 137 AFCO Middlesbrough 130 154 77 52 51 71 165 AFCO Newcastle 115 167 100 42 45 65 131 AFCO Sheffield 168 131 113 84 64 64 101 AFCO Leeds 1200000 AFCO Carlisle 45 54 39 17 28 42 46 AFCO Liverpool 174 271 177 76 60 109 189 AFCO Manchester 165 261 90 39 37 61 133 AFCO Preston 126 170 81 59 36 70 112 AFCO Wrexham 62 77 73 37 44 55 148 AFCO Aberdeen 12 24 11 12 14 35 47 AFCO Belfast 26 25 36 28 22 46 69 AFCO Dundee 49 63 56 31 17 42 85 AFCO Edinburgh 38 49 41 30 27 42 71 AFCO Glasgow 96 105 59 30 27 64 117 AFCO Inverness 17 32 24 27 17 31 46 Kentigern House—Glasgow 10 27 51 3200 AFCO Bournemouth 71 48 56 23 25 24 47 AFCO Brighton 63 79 69 37 24 36 65 AFCO Chatham 74 105 66 41 21 47 66 AFCO London 72 58 74 43 31 37 68 AFCO Oxford 89 107 74 49 25 24 64 AFCO Portsmouth 59 61 9 55 33 48 86 AFCO Southend 49 72 33 20 18 26 53 AFCO Bristol 74 90 65 34 19 37 64 AFCO Cardiff 114 142 58 22 30 38 97 AFCO Exeter 61 102 74 47 30 35 79 AFCO Plymouth 73 80 55 28 29 44 87 AFCO Redruth 49 48 29 22 24 33 56 AFCO Swansea 64 100 57 28 26 38 95 AFCO Plymouth 1 2 5 12 3 0 0 AFCO Birmingham 138 167 110 70 93 79 137 AFCO Coventry 78 84 50 19 19 35 43 AFCO Gloucester 77 113 68 30 21 34 92 AFCO Shrewsbury 70 92 66 33 32 39 62 AFCO Stoke 97 108 56 21 23 24 54 Senior Career Liaison Officer RAF 71641001 Halton Senior Career Liaison Officer RAF 6867423 Linton on Ouse Senior Career Liaison Officer RAF 0230000 Wittering Director Recruitment and Initial 24431001 Training—RAF Cranwell Officer and Airmen Selection Centre— 214 180 154 170 167 167 210 RAF Cranwell

Armed Forces: Training training collocated on as few sites as possible remains the best solution for our armed forces and we have a Alun Michael: To ask the Secretary of State for new programme in place to assess requirement and Defence pursuant to the answer of 8 November 2010, options. Official Report, columns 20-21W, on the Defence Alun Michael: To ask the Secretary of State for Technical College, what (a) estimate he has made of Defence pursuant to the answer of 8 November 2010, the cost to and (b) assessment he has made of the Official Report, columns 20-21W, on the Defence likely effects on the armed services of the opportunities Technical College, what estimate he has made of (a) arising from bringing services together which will be the cost to his Department in respect of efficiencies lost as a result of terminating the Defence Training foregone and (b) direct cost to the Exchequer Rationalisation programme. [24057] consequent on terminating the Defence Training Rationalisation programme. [24058] Nick Harvey: The Defence Training Rationalisation (DTR) project was terminated because it became clear Nick Harvey: The Defence Training Rationalisation that Metrix could not deliver an affordable, commercially (DTR) project had already delivered some efficiencies robust proposal within the prescribed period. Technical in how tri-service training is managed. The project was 221W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 222W terminated because it became clear that Metrix could Peter Luff: A copy of the Project History documents not deliver an affordable, commercially robust proposal maintained in respect of the Nimrod MRA4, Future within the prescribed period. However, technical training Integrated Soldier Technology, Queen Elizabeth Class collocated on as few sites as possible remains the best carriers and Future Rapid Effect System projects will be solution for our armed forces and we are working on placed in the Library of the House following a review to assessing other options which will seek to create similar identify whether any information needs to be withheld. efficiencies to DTR. Departmental Intellectual Property In terms of direct costs, Ministry of Defence officials are currently engaging with Metrix, the preferred bidder for the DTR contract, over the settlement of claims Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for arising from pre-contract agreements. Therefore the Defence in how many ongoing legal cases relating to extent of the costs have yet to be determined. intellectual property his Department is involved. [25756] Army Mr Robathan: The are three pending legal actions Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for concerning intellectual property rights involving the Defence how many Army infantry have been recruited Secretary of State for Defence and the Ministry of in the latest period for which figures are available; and Defence, all in the United Kingdom. if he will make a statement. [25682] Departmental Pensions Mr Robathan: 3,030 entrants undertook soldier training for the Infantry in the 12 month period up to 30 Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for September 2010. As this figure is calculated on a rolling Defence what estimate he has made of the likely effects basis and many of these entrants are still in training, it on his Department’s expenditure in the comprehensive is not possible to say how many will successfully complete spending review period of the indexation of pensions training and enter the field army as infantry personnel. using the consumer price index. [25743] Equivalent information is not held for officer entrants; apart from professionally qualified officers, such as Mr Robathan: Detailed calculations are being undertaken doctors, officer entrants are not assigned a cap badge by the Ministry of Defence and the Government Actuary’s until they complete training at the Royal Military Academy, Department to assess the impact on service pensions Sandhurst. from the change to the Consumer Price Index. Civil service pensions are paid from a central Government Defence Support Group: Scotland fund. It will not be possible to identify separately those relating to former MOD employees. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many people are employed by the France: Aircraft Carriers Defence Support Group in each site in Scotland. [19729] Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what assessment his Department has made Peter Luff: The Defence Support Group currently of the likely availability for service of the French employs 105 personnel at Stirling, which is its only site aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle between 2020 and in Scotland. 2035; [23999] (2) what recent reports he has received on (a) the Defence: Procurement availability for service and (b) maintenance performed Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for on the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle; and if Defence what estimate he has made of the likely he will make a statement. [24000] proportion of defence contracts to be awarded to small Nick Harvey: The UK and France have agreed to and medium-sized enterprises in each year of the develop the capability to deploy a UK-French integrated Spending Review period. [22855] carrier strike group, incorporating assets owned by Peter Luff: In the year to the end of March 2010, both countries, by the early 2020s. Work to achieve this some 45% of the new contracts placed by the Ministry is at an early stage and will take account, among other of Defence were awarded to small and medium-sized things, of the availability of each nation’s naval assets. enterprises (SMEs). Along with other Government Iraq: Military Aid Departments, we will be taking action to increase the amount of business placed with SMEs although no specific estimates have been made. The role of SMEs in Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for the defence acquisition and supply chain will be fully Defence (1) what British military equipment has been explored in the forthcoming Defence and Security Industrial transferred to the Iraqi government in each of the last and Technology Green and White Papers. five years; [25070] (2) what plans his Department has to transfer British Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for military equipment to the Iraqi government. [25072] Defence what project history documentation, as defined in Maintaining a Project History, v4.0, August Nick Harvey: The following table lists the gifts of 2007, was maintained in respect of the (a) Nimrod, British military equipment above the value of £1,000 to (b) Future Integrated Soldier Technology, (c) aircraft the Government of Iraq which were authorised in the carriers and (d) future rapid effect system projects; and last five years. We currently have no plans to transfer if he will place a copy of each in the Library. [25920] further British military equipment to the Iraqi Government. 223W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 224W

column 797, we plan to deliver a carrier strike capability Gift Date Gift Description from around 2020 using the carrier variant joint strike 29 September 2005 Portacabins and machinery given to the Iraqi armed fighter and a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier forces and Iraqi local government fitted with catapults and arrestor gear. We are not 4 March 2006 Sleeping bags given to the Iraqi army planning to use Rafale aircraft in the meantime. 19 December 2006 Five containers given to the Iraqi Department of Border Enforcement 24 April 2007 Infrastructure at Al Shaibah Logistics Base Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for transferred to Iraqi army Defence what language French aircraft crew will use March-April 2007 UK assets from the Old State Building, Basra, and when operating from and within the Queen Elizabeth- Shatt al Arab Hotel, Basra; mostly comprising class aircraft carriers. [25080] accommodation stores, kitchen equipment, generators and temporary ablution facilities May 2007 Accommodation stores to Iraqi army Nick Harvey: The Queen Elizabeth class carriers will 2007 Petrol and diesel supplies to Iraqi security forces be ships of the Royal Navy and so the working language August 2007 Infrastructure, accommodation and stores to Iraqi aboard will be English. Palace Protection Force September 2007 300 hand grenades to Iraqi Palace Protection Force Naval Emergency Monitoring Team December 2007 Medical supplies to Iraqi medical services following car bombings January 2008 Boots to the Iraqi Security Forces Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 Diesel, fuel and oil to Iraqi security forces in Basra Defence whether he plans to retain the (a) Clyde and the Basra Council Off-Site Centre and (b) Naval Emergency Monitoring 20 February 2008 15,000 high density blocks to Iraqi security forces Team (North) at their current location in Rhu. [20129] 7 February 2008 A supply of HESCO defensive wall to Iraqi security forces 12 March 2008 Four portacabins transferred to Iraqi security forces Nick Harvey: There are no current plans to close the March 2008 Halal and vegetarian rations and bottled water to Clyde off-site centre or to move the Naval Emergency Iraqi security forces in Basra Monitoring Team (North) from their current location 9 May 2008 Tools for Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams in Rhu. Members: Correspondence Rescue Services Pat Glass: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when he plans to reply to the letter of 27 October 2010 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for from the hon. Member for North West Durham Defence on how many occasions overseas in the last regarding a meeting with representatives of Astrum in three years a foreign-requested aircraft has provided North West Durham constituency. [25512] search and rescue assistance over UK territorial waters; what role each played; what the location of each Mr Gerald Howarth: I have responded to the hon. incident was; and whether each occurrence was in Member today. response to obligations under Annex 12 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation. [21447] Military Aircraft Nick Harvey: Around the globe, Search and Rescue Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for (SAR) services are co-ordinated by the Regional Defence whether (a) fleet air arm and (b) Royal Air Co-ordination Centre whose area of responsibility the Force (i) pilots and (ii) other personnel (A) have been overseas territories lies within, with the exception of the trained and (B) will be trained on Rafale aircraft. British Indian Ocean Territory, British sovereign base [25059] areas on Cyprus and the Falkland Islands. Nick Harvey: The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force The information requested is not held for the British do not have any pilots or other personnel who are Indian Ocean Territory. There has been one occasion in trained to fly or operate the French Rafale aircraft. territorial waters within the British sovereign base area in Cyprus near RAF Akrotiri on 12 December 2009, As part of the future carrier strike capability announced when Cyprus police helicopter assets provided SAR in the Strategic Defence and Security Review and the jointly with a helicopter from 84 Squadron. There have recent UK-France Defence Co-operation Treaty, a range been no occasions when foreign aircraft have been of bilateral future training options with France are requested to assist in the Falkland Islands. being considered. However, there are no plans at present to train Royal Navy and RAF pilots or personnel on the For the remaining territories, the only available Rafale aircraft. information concerns an incident in October 2008, when the MV Fedra ran aground off Europa Point in Gibraltar Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for territorial waters. A Spanish coastguard helicopter winched Defence whether he plans to use Rafale aircraft as an some personnel off the ship as part of a joint UK-Spanish interim measure until the joint strike fighter aircraft is effort. available for use on the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft As a contracting state the UK Government adhere to carriers. [25078] annex 12 of the convention on international civil aviation; the incidents above follow the principle established in Peter Luff: As the Prime Minister made clear in his the annex that co-operation between the SAR services statement on the Strategic Defence and Security Review of neighbouring states is essential to the efficient conduct to the House on 19 October 2010, Official Report, of SAR operations. 225W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 226W

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 Defence (1) what assessment he has made of the likely Date effects of the cancellation of the Nimrod MR4A 25 January RAF Sea King and Oil Industry Super aircraft order on the ability of the UK to meet its Puma obligations under section 2.1.9 of the International 21 February Nimrod MR2 Convention on Maritime Search and Rescue; [24406] 27 February Nimrod MR2 (2) what assessment has he made of the likely effects 4 March Nimrod MR2 of the cancellation of the Nimrod MR4A aircraft 5 March Nimrod MR2 order on the ability of the Government to meet their 15 March Nimrod MR2 obligations under section 4.7.1 of the International 1 June MCA1 S-92 Helicopter Convention on Maritime Search and Rescue. [24411] 4 October RAF Sea King 16 November RAF Sea King Peter Luff: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I 12 December Nimrod MR2 gave on 28 October 2010, Official Report, columns 450-51W,to the hon. Members for East Kilbride, Strathaven 2009 and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann), Coventry North East Date (Mr Ainsworth) and North Durham (Mr Jones). 14 January MCA1 AW-139 Helicopter 10 February RAF Sea King Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 18 June Nimrod MR2 Defence on how many occasions the Government has 1 September RN Sea King received a request for assistance from a neighbouring state in accordance with section 3.1 of the 2010 (1 January to 13 November) International Convention on Maritime Search and Date Rescue in each of the last five years; and which search and rescue assets provided assistance on each such 4 October RAF Sea King 1 occasion. [24410] MCA = Maritime and Coastguard Agency The decision not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into Nick Harvey: A search of available records found 34 service was difficult. Since the withdrawal of the Nimrod occasions between 1 January 2005 and 13 November MR2 in March 2010, the Ministry of Defence has 2010 when the Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre sought to mitigate the gap in capability through the use tasked Search and Rescue assets to provide assistance of other military assets, including Type 23 Frigates, to neighbouring states. These are set out in the following Merlin anti-submarine warfare helicopters and Hercules tables: C-130 aircraft, and by relying, where appropriate, on assistance from allies and partners. Although it was 2005 originally assumed that such measures would only be Date required for a limited period of time, we are now 20 February Nimrod MR2 developing a longer-term plan to mitigate the impact of 2 July Nimrod MR2 cancellation. 24 August Nimrod MR2 Territorial Army 8 November Nimrod MR2 1 December Nimrod MR2 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what proportion of the Territorial Army 2006 consists of infantry, excluding the University Officer Date Training Corps. [25679]

28 January RN Sea King Mr Robathan: As at 1 October 2010, 23% of the 31 January MCA1 S-61 Helicopter and RAF Sea Territorial Army consists of the Infantry. These figures King are provisional while work continues to validate data 28 March Nimrod MR2 held on the Joint Personnel Administration system. 7 July Nimrod MR2 22 August Nimrod MR2 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for 30 October Nimrod MR2 Defence what roles the Territorial Army infantry will 1 November Nimrod MR2 be trained for in addition to riflemen. [25681] 2007 Mr Robathan: The Territorial Army Infantry will Date continue to operate Support Weapons, Signals, Mechanical 20 February Nimrod MR2 and RAF Sea King Transport and a logistics capability (Quartermasters) 1 March RAF Sea King all of which will be supported by specialist courses and 3 June RN Sea King qualifications. 28 September Nimrod MR2 31 October Nimrod MR2 INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT 13 November RAF Sea King and Nimrod MR2 Afghanistan: Mining

2008 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Date for International Development whether he has had recent discussions on the Aynak mines in Afghanistan; 7 January RN Sea Kings x 2 and if he will make a statement. [25879] 227W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 228W

Mr Andrew Mitchell: I discussed the Aynak mine DFID’s only non-departmental public body, the with the Afghan Minister for Mines during a meeting in Commonwealth Scholarship Commission, has spent no June of this year. The contract for the Aynak copper money on press cuttings services over the last year. mine in Afghanistan was awarded to a Chinese company, Developing Countries: Microfinance the Metallurgical Corporation of China (MCC) in 2008 following a tender process overseen by the World Bank on behalf of the Government of Afghanistan. Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of microfinance Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations programmes supported by his Department. [25286]

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Duncan: The Department for International for International Development what recent discussions Development’s (DFID’s) Business Plan 2011-15 commits he has had with the Afghanistan NGO Safety Office on to developing new projects on microfinance as part of aid workers operating in Taliban-controlled areas; and the Government strategy to foster wealth creation and if he will make a statement. [25875] economic growth in developing countries. All DFID programmes are currently being reviewed Mr Andrew Mitchell: The UK supports the Afghanistan under the Bilateral and Multilateral Aid Reviews, to NGO Safety Office (ANSO) through our contributions ensure UK aid is effective, represents value for money to the Humanitarian Aid Department of the European and brings real benefits to the world’s poor. DFID has Commission (ECHO). I have not had recent discussions also commissioned a systematic review of the impact of with ANSO. However, UK Government officials based microfinance on poor people. This report will be posted in Kabul are in regular contact and share relevant on the DFID website early next year. Both these exercises security information with ANSO. will inform DFID’s future support in this area.

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for for International Development what estimate he has International Development which (a) charities and made of the proportion of his Department’s budget (b) other organisations have received funding from his spent on programmes in Afghanistan in 2010-11. Department to institute, develop or run microfinance [25877] programmes in each of the last five years. [25287] Mr Duncan: Over the past five years, the Department Mr Andrew Mitchell: We currently estimate that the for International Development (DFID) has worked directly Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) and indirectly with a broad range of organisations, bilateral programme spend in Afghanistan will constitute including non-governmental organisations, foundations, approximately 2.2% of DFID’s total resource budget multilateral institutions, banks and financial institutions, for 2010-11. DFID will also provide funding to Afghanistan in a number of countries to fund microfinance programmes through our contributions to multilateral agencies. These and develop their capacity to provide microfinance contributions are calculated retrospectively. services, such as; Opportunity International Bank of Malawi Departmental Press: Subscriptions Care International in Uganda Kashf Foundation (an NGO-Microfinance Institution) in Pakistan Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for State Bank of Pakistan in Pakistan International Development how much (a) his Small Industries Development Bank of India (SIDBI) in India Department and (b) the non-departmental public Palli Karma Sahayek Foundation, in Bangladesh bodies for which he is responsible spent on press The Institute of Microfinance in Bangladesh cuttings services in each of the last 12 months. [25486] The Microcredit Regulatory Authority in Bangladesh Mr Duncan: The Department for International The Bangladesh Bank in Bangladesh Development (DFID) has spent the following on press Financial Sector Deepening Trust in Kenya cuttings services in each month between October 2009 Financial Sector Deepening Trust in Tanzania and September 2010. Enhancing Financial Innovation and Access (Efina) in Nigeria DFID is unable to provide a definitive list of all £ organisations funded in each of the last five without September 2010 2,286.99 incurring disproportionate cost. August 2010 2,602.09 Overseas Aid July 2010 2,915.39 June 2010 4,684.90 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for May 2010 4,182.79 International Development how much aid his April 2010 3,871.76 Department plans to provide to each G20 country in March 2010 3,854.23 each year of the comprehensive spending review February 2010 4,914.60 period. [26067] January 2010 5,420.51 December 2009 4,490.35 Mr Duncan: The Department for International November 2009 4,501.65 Development (DFID) is currently reviewing all spending October 2009 4,218.61 through country/and regional programmes to ensure we focus our resources where we can achieve the most 229W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 230W impact. We will close or reduce programmes in countries Thailand: Overseas Aid that no longer require substantial aid programmes. The Secretary of State has previously announced that UK bilateral aid programmes in China and Russia will Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for close. International Development what plans his Department has for humanitarian aid programmes in response to take account of the recent increase in the number of Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for refugees on the Thailand-Burma border. [25551] International Development what assessment he has made of the ability of his Department to cease Mr Duncan: The Department for International (a) (b) payments for projects in Russia and China Development (DFID) is providing £7.5 million between before their implementation; and if he will estimate the 2009 and 2012 for people affected by conflict in eastern likely effects on his Department’s budget of Burma. This assistance is being delivered through a immediately ceasing such payments. [26069] number of non-governmental organisations. It includes the provision of food, shelter and improved access to Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International legal assistance for Burmese refugees in Thailand, as Development’s (DFID’s) bilateral aid to Russia will well as aid for health care, water, sanitation and food end in April 2011. Following this decision two projects security for displaced people in eastern Burma. DFID will be closed early, arrangements have been made with has not been asked for additional funding in response project partners to bring these to an orderly conclusion. to the most recent fighting. All of DFID’s projects in China will end by March 2011. The feasibility of terminating projects earlier was assessed on a case by case basis but not considered practicable given the relative imminence of their closure. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Savings as a result of these closures are being reallocated within DFID’s wider development programme. Afghanistan: EU Aid

Pakistan: Overseas Aid Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State financial contributions to Afghanistan from the EU. for International Development what aid his [25186] Department is providing to refugees in Pakistan. [25876] Alistair Burt: I have regular conversations with my EU colleagues on Afghanistan through the Foreign Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International Affairs Council which discuss the strategic direction of Development (DFID) provides aid to internally displaced Afghanistan. The allocation of funding is made via the people (IIDPs) within Pakistan, including those who Development Cooperation Instrument and the UK has have been displaced by the recent flooding. Among lobbied successfully for Afghanistan to get a greater other life saving aid, we have provided emergency shelter share of EU financial assistance to Asia. At the recent for over 230,000 people and safe drinking and hygiene mid-term review the allocation was increased from ¤150 kits for over 800,000 people. DFID’s total contribution million per year during 2001-10 to ¤200 million per year to the humanitarian response in Pakistan is £134 million. for 2011-2013. We are encouraging the EU to ensure its In addition to aid provided in response to the floods, engagement in Afghanistan is co-ordinated and targeted, DFID has provided £54.5 million in humanitarian support by following an accelerated EU action plan. to Pakistan since 2008. This includes significant support to people internally displaced as a result of the 2009 British Overseas Territories: Remembrance Day conflict in the border areas, such as protection and humanitarian assistance to 800,000 people and food aid for up to 1.4 million people. Mrs Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs for what reason he lays a wreath at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday on Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State behalf of the British Overseas Territories; and what for International Development what recent discussions recent consideration he has given to the merits of he has had on the humanitarian situation in Pakistan. permitting representatives of each such territory to lay [25878] a wreath. [26010]

Mr Andrew Mitchell: I discussed post-floods recovery Mr Bellingham: My right hon. Friend the Secretary and reconstruction with the Government of Pakistan of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs lays a and international partners when I attended the Pakistan wreath on behalf of all the British Overseas Territories Development Forum in Islamabad on 15 November to recognise the contribution and sacrifice made by 2010. I have had regular discussions on the humanitarian citizens of the Overseas Territories during times of situation with the UN, European Commission, other conflict. We have received representations from the bilateral donors and the Government of Pakistan to UK-based representatives of the Overseas Territories to ensure there continues to be an adequate and effective allow them to lay a wreath, but have no plans to change response to the floods. the current arrangements. 231W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 232W

Burma: Politics and Government EU-Cuba political dialogue. Given the ongoing release of political prisoners in Cuba the EU has, with UK Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for support, begun a process of reflection about future Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment options for the EU-Cuba relationship. he has made of the implications of the new constitution in Burma for (a) democracy, (b) human Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for rights and (c) equal rights for the ethnic nationalities Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent in that country. [25552] representations he has received on UK policy on the EU common position on Cuba. [25301] Mr Lidington: The new Constitution was approved in a rigged referendum in May 2008. We believe it entrenches Mr Jeremy Browne: We have received no formal military rule, as demonstrated by the sham elections representations on the EU Common Position, which is held on 7 November; permits the regime’s continuing the basis of UK policy on Cuba. We regularly reply to human rights abuses against the Burmese people, including public inquiries, including from non-governmental the political, social and economic discrimination suffered organisations, trades unions and business groups, about by ethnic groups; and provides the military leadership the Common Position. EU policy on Cuba, including with immunity from prosecution for past crimes and the Common Position, is kept under constant review. human rights abuses. In addition, the President can grant sweeping powers to the military if a state of Cyprus: Christianity emergency is declared, reinstating military control of the country and suspending the rights of its citizens. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for The UK has worked to secure a UN General Assembly Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make Resolution which calls on the Burmese authorities to representations to the Government of (a) Northern undertake a transparent, inclusive and comprehensive Cyprus and (b) Turkey on the destruction of Christian review of the Constitution. This was adopted with a religious sites and buildings in Northern Cyprus. vote on 18 November. [25321] Burma: Thailand Mr Lidington: The Government strongly believe that Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for the respect for religious and cultural buildings is a key Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his element in building trust between different communities. Department is taking in response to the recent Therefore it supports the need for greater preservation increased conflict on the Thailand-Burma border and of churches and other buildings of religious and cultural the creation of a border guard force under the control heritage in northern Cyprus. British diplomats in Nicosia of the Burma army. [25427] have raised these issues at various levels including with the leader of the Turkish Cypriot community. Mr Lidington: The Government are concerned about We also support the work of the bi-communal Technical the refugee situation on the Thai-Burma border and is Committee on Cultural Heritage who have developed monitoring developments closely. We are in touch with an action plan to protect vulnerable buildings. They the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees have already started work on some projects and hope, and our ambassador to Thailand raised the issue with with further funding, to soon be able to implement the Thai authorities on 18 November. more of their plan. We understand that many of the ethnic ceasefire and non-ceasefire groups have refused to join the Border Developing Countries: Departmental Coordination Guard Force proposed by the military regime and that this is a source of ongoing tension. We are clear that the regime’s pursuit of military solutions rather than a Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for political settlement with ethnic groups will not bring Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs from which units stability. Elections held on 7 November represent a in his Department staff participating in the cross- missed opportunity to unite armed and non-armed Government board to deal with conflict overseas will ethnic groups in a just peace settlement. There is little be drawn. [25607] prospect of national reconciliation without their involvement. Mr Bellingham: The Strategic Defence and Security Review of October 2010 confirmed the Government’s Cuba: EU External Relations commitment to building stability overseas through preventing conflict and identifying and tackling emerging Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for threats including from fragile and conflict-affected states. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, in partnership on the EU common position on Cuba; and if he will with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for make a statement. [25300] International Development, is leading work to develop a new Building Stability Overseas Strategy, to be published Mr Jeremy Browne: UK and EU policy on Cuba is in spring 2011. This will set out am integrated approach based on the 1996 EU Common Position. The UK and to building stability overseas, bringing together diplomatic, the EU follow the situation in Cuba closely and our development, military and other national security tools. policy is kept under constant review. There have been a The architecture, including the cross-government board, number of changes in recent years such as the resumption to support the delivery of the strategy is currently being of EU development co-operation and the start of an considered. 233W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 234W

Government Hospitality Fund Alistair Burt: The total number of Iraqi refugees registered with the UN Refugee Agency, UN High Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), currently stands Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much the at 423,355 people, including 72,295 refugees who arrived Government Hospitality Fund spent on the purchase in 2006 and before. There are approximately 195,428 of (a) champagne and (b) other wines in (i) 2008-09 Iraq refugees in the region, which covers the main and (ii) 2009-10. [26099] countries of asylum: Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and Iran. Mr Bellingham: I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I UNHCR figures indicate that there are currently gave to my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk 139,586 Iraq refugees living in Syria; 3,623 in Iran; (Matthew Hancock) on 6 September 2010, Official 30,630 in Jordan; 7,955 in Lebanon; and 5,235 in Turkey. Report, column 228W. Of the amounts stated, £27,136 was spent on champagne in 2008-09, which was reduced Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for to £9,070 in 2009-10. No champagne has been purchased Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he this financial year. has made of the number of Iraqi citizens who have become refugees in Syria since the start of the war in Iraq in 2003. [25935] Guatemala Alistair Burt: The UN Refugee Agency, UN High Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), has registered and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Minister of over 290,000 Iraqi refugees in Syria since the start of State with responsibilities for Latin America plans to the Iraq War in 2003. Some have since been officially meet (a) female representatives of indigenous resettled. Others departed to third countries by other communities and (b) representatives of human rights means and some have decided to return to Iraq. organisations during his visit to Guatemala. [26004] As of the end October 2010, the population of registered Iraqi refugees in Syria stands at 139,586 following UNHCR Mr Bellingham: One of the UK’s top priorities in Syria’s revision of its figure for the number of registered Guatemala is to support good governance and human Iraqi refugees in Syria. This is based on the verification rights—key to improving the deteriorating security situation of their physical presence in Syria throughout 2009 and in the country. During my hon. Friend Jeremy Browne’s 2010. short visit to Guatemala he will meet civil society organisations and young leaders—including young Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for indigenous women—during an event to promote a national Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent campaign against domestic violence which the UK is reports he has received on the proportion of Iraqi actively supporting. citizens from Christian or Mandaean communities who have become refugees in Syria since the start of the war He will not have a separate meeting with representatives in Iraq in 2003. [25936] of human rights organisations on this occasion, but he will be raising human rights issues with the Guatemalan Alistair Burt: Figures released by the UN Refugee Government, and separately our embassy in Guatemala Agency, UN High Commissioner for Refugees, estimate City and officials in London will continue to maintain that there are currently 15,362 Iraqi Christians living as good contacts with these groups. refugees in Syria. The number of Sabean/Mandean refugees in Syria currently stands at 5,113. Iraq: Asylum There are currently 139,586 Iraqi refugees registered in Syria. Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Sergei Magnitsky Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has received on the proportion of Iraqi Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for citizens from Christian or Mandaean communities who Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he had have become refugees in countries neighbouring Iraq discussions with the Russian government on the case of since the start of the war in Iraq in 2003. [25933] Sergei Magnitsky during his recent visit to Moscow. [25266] Alistair Burt: Figures released by the UN Refugee Agency, UN High Commissioner for Refugees, estimate Mr Lidington: The Government continue to follow that there are currently 23,373 Iraqi Christians living as Mr Magnitsky’s case closely. We have welcomed the refugees in the region surrounding Iraq. The number of official investigation into this case announced by President Sabean/Mandean refugees currently stands at 5,460. Medvedev in November 2009, and keenly await its If Iraqi refugees are divided into their religious groups, conclusion. We believe it is important that this investigation the Christian minority is the third largest, at 12% of the is thorough and transparent. Officials from the Foreign total. Sunni and Shia Iraq refugees still constitute the and Commonwealth Office have also consistently made most numerous groups. clear to the Russian Government our concerns about this case, as part of our continuing bilateral human Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for rights dialogue with Russia. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he In his recent meetings with the Russian government has made of the number of Iraqi citizens who have in Moscow, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary become refugees in countries neighbouring Iraq since also raised issues relating to the rule of law and human the start of the war in Iraq in 2003. [25934] rights more generally, stressing how important it is that 235W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 236W the law is applied fairly in all cases. He also held more Mr Lidington: We have no plans to discuss this matter specific discussions on this particular case during his with the Director General of the British Broadcasting meeting with Russian human rights non-governmental Corporation. We will, however, continue to raise these organisations. cases with the Turkmen authorities, including through the European Union. Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations his Department has made to the CABINET OFFICE Russian Government on the death in custody of Sergei Magnitsky. [25267] Departmental Press Mr Lidington: The Government continue to follow Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Mr Magnitsky’s case closely. We have welcomed the (1) how much his Department spent on press cuttings official investigation into this case announced by President services in each of the last 12 months; [19659] Medvedev in November 2009, and keenly await its (2) how much was spent on press cuttings services for conclusion. We believe it is important that this investigation the Prime Minister’s Office in each of the last is thorough and transparent. Officials from the Foreign 12 months. [25483] and Commonwealth Office have also consistently made clear to the Russian Government our concerns about Mr Maude: Cabinet Office spend on press cuttings this case, as part of our continuing bilateral human and other related services in the last six months of the rights dialogue with Russia. 2009-10 financial year was £120,863.10. The Prime In his recent meetings with the Russian Government Minister’s Office is an integral part of the CO, and as in Moscow, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary such the figure provided also includes the amount spent also raised issues relating to the rule of law and human by the Prime Minister’s Office. rights more generally, stressing how important it is that Figures for the current financial year will be available the law is applied fairly in all cases. He also held more only when the Department’s resource accounts have specific discussions on this particular case during his been fully audited and laid before Parliament. This is meeting with Russian human rights non-governmental expected to be before the 2011 summer recess. organisations. Unemployment Taiwan: Carbon Emissions Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Office how many children in (a) England, (b) Norfolk Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions and (c) Great Yarmouth constituency were living in his Department is having with the Government of families with no parent in employment between Taiwan on the transition to low carbon emissions. January 2005 and January 2010. [24686] [25302] Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Mr Bellingham: We have regular exchanges with the asked the authority to reply. Taiwanese authorities about low carbon development. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2010: In October 2010, Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials visited Taipei to discuss the UK policy framework. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your question asking how many The British Trade and Cultural Office Taiwanese Ministry children in (a) England, (b) Norfolk and (c) Great Yarmouth of Economic Affairs also co-hosted a renewable-energy constituency were living in families with no parent in employment seminar focusing on offshore wind power and marine between January 2005 and January 2010. 24686. energy. Taiwan’s shift towards a greener economy is The figures requested come from the Annual Population Survey gaining momentum and we are actively supporting this household datasets. These are currently available for 2004 to transition. 2009. The attached table shows estimates for England and Norfolk. The table provides information for 2005 to 2009. Turkmenistan: Prisoners Due to the specific nature of your request it is not possible to provide reliable estimates for the Great Yarmouth constituency Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for because of small sample sizes. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject he has had with the BBC on the detention of to a margin of uncertainty. This is captured in a confidence journalists Annakurban Amanklychev and Sapardurdy interval, defined by lower and upper bounds, such that the interval formed between the bounds would contain the true value Khadzhiev in Turkmenistan. [24805] for 95% of all possible samples. Mr Lidington: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Children1 living in families with no parent in employment in England and Norfolk Secretary has had no discussions with the British Thousand Broadcasting Corporation on the detention of Annakurban Lower Upper Estimate bound2 bound2 Amanklychev and Sapardurdy Khadzhiev in Turkmenistan. England January to 1,630 1,582 1,678 Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2005 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will hold January to 1,645 1,596 1,693 discussions with the BBC Director General about the December 2006 January to 1,613 1,564 1,662 custodial conditions of journalists Annakurban December 2007 Amanklychev and Sapardurdy Khadzhiev detained in January to 1,670 1,620 1,721 Turkmenistan. [24806] December 2008 237W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 238W

Children1 living in families with no parent in employment in England and Norfolk Children1 living in families with no parent in employment in England and Thousand Lancashire Lower Upper Thousand Estimate bound2 bound2 Lower Upper Estimate bound2 bound2 January to 1,707 1,655 1,759 December 2009 January to 51 42 60 December 2006 January to 50 41 60 Norfolk January to 24 16 31 December 2007 December 2005 January to 47 38 57 January to 20 13 28 December 2008 December 2006 3 3 3 January to 45 35 54 January to — — — December 2009 December 2007 1 Children refers to children under 16. January to 22 15 29 2 95% confidence interval which means that from all samples possible there December 2008 would be 95% certainty that the true estimate would lie within the lower and January to 3— 3— 3— upper bounds. December 2009 Source: 1 Children refers to children under 16. APS household dataset. 2 95% confidence interval which means that from all samples possible there would be 95% certainty that the true estimate would lie within the lower and upper bounds. 3 Estimates are considered unreliable for practical purposes. This is because of small sample sizes. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Source: Adult Education APS household dataset Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Jake Berry: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Business, Innovation and Skills what plans his Office how many children in (a) England, (b) Department has to increase the quality of provision for Lancashire and (c) Rossendale and Darwen adult education. [25802] constituency were living in families with no parent in employment between January 2005 and January 2010. Mr Hayes: The recently published skills strategy (’Skills [25361] for Sustainable Growth’) sets out our intention to reform adult learning and skills over the remainder of this Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Parliament and point the way to growth in the longer responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have term. High quality adult education is at the heart of this asked the authority to reply. strategy. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2010: An underpinning principle of the strategy is freedom. Our ambition is to abandon a culture of bureaucratic, As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your question asking how many central, regulatory burdens, as we believe that control children in (a) England, (b) Lancashire and (c) Rossendale and should be devolved from central Government to citizens Darwen constituency were living in families with no parent in and communities. This includes giving them a greater employment between January 2005 and January 2010. (25361) role in shaping services and improving quality. Through The figures requested come from the Annual Population Survey a combination of increasing competition between training (APS) household datasets. These are currently available for 2004 providers; empowering learners by giving them better to 2009. The attached table shows estimates for England and information about quality of adult education; and by Lancashire. The table provides information for 2005 to 2009. tackling poor performance quickly and robustly, we will Due to the specific nature of your request it is not possible to drive up standards. provide reliable estimates for Rossendale and Darwen constituency We are taking steps to improve the quality and range because of small sample sizes. of information that is made available about adult As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject education—including through the Next Step and to a margin of uncertainty. This is captured in a confidence development of sector led Further Education Public interval, defined by lower and upper bounds, such that the Information. This will ensure that learners and employers interval formed between the bounds would contain the true value for 95% of all possible samples. are better equipped to makes choices about where and what to learn. We are also improving opportunities for Children1 living in families with no parent in employment in England and Lancashire learners and employers to give feedback, which we Thousand expect providers themselves will use to improve the Lower Upper quality of the education and services they deliver. This Estimate bound2 bound2 user choice and influence will become a powerful mechanism for driving up quality. England January to 1,630 1,582 1,678 December 2005 Alongside our move towards greater empowerment, January to 1,645 1,596 1,693 we will continue to take steps through the Department December 2006 and the Skills Funding Agency to improve quality. January to 1,613 1,564 1,662 The Skills Funding Agency is committed to only December 2007 contracting with high quality educational and vocational January to 1,670 1,620 1,721 December 2008 training providers. To this end, the Agency has recently January to 1,707 1,655 1,759 introduced an Approved College and Training Organisation December 2009 Register (ACTOR), which tests the capacity and capability of organisations to meet ’minimum levels of performance’ Lancashire January to 50 40 59 that are set by this Department (in agreement with December 2005 sector representative organisations). All providers that 239W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 240W wish to be considered for public funding from the Mr Maude: I have been asked to reply. agency, for the delivery of educational and vocational The Digital Inclusion Task Force was set up in 2009 training, must be approved on ACTOR. Those to support Martha Lane Fox, the then Champion for organisations that fail to meet the required standards Digital Inclusion. will not be registered and therefore will be ineligible for funding. The Digital Inclusion Taskforce was disbanded in Where a provider is on ACTOR and has received February 2010 in order that Martha and her team could funding and their performance subsequently drops, we focus on their Race Online 2012 partnership campaign. will act decisively. If they fail to respond to opportunities However, several members of the Task Force are still to improve, we will withdraw a contract from any private involved in supporting Martha in her new role as UK training provider (and remove them from ACTOR) and Digital Champion. we will close failing colleges. In order to protect the Martha Lane Fox launched her Race Online 2012 interests of the learners, we will ensure that alternative partnership campaign which encourages business partners provision is secured through an excellent education to train, educate and inspire people to use the web in provider. We will publish further details on this approach April 2010. Race Online 2012 currently has over in spring 2011. 880 partners who have pledged to help 1.7 million new Ofsted will continue to inspect adult learning provision, people get online by the end of the Olympic year. More although we are taking a more proportionate approach details of the partnership campaign can be found at: to inspections. Any provider who is deemed to be www.raceonline2012.org ’outstanding’ will not be inspected (unless their performance drops). This will allow Ofsted to focus their attention on providers who cause concern, which improves our Festivals and Special Occasions: Public Holidays capacity to identify and tackle poor performance and quality. Karen Bradley: To ask the Secretary of State for We will also continue to support measures to ensure Business, Innovation and Skills if he will being forward we have a professionally-qualified teaching workforce, proposals for a public holiday on the occasion of the which takes responsibility for keeping its skills up-to-date marriage of HRH Prince William and Miss Catherine and relevant. We intend to work with the teaching Middleton. [25829] profession to look at how to create the conditions to encourage flexible and innovative approaches to teaching Mr Davey: The royal wedding will take place on and learning, which are cost-effective, responsive to 29 April and the Prime Minister has already announced employer and learner needs, and make full use of the that it will be a bank holiday. potential of technology. In specialist areas of provision, employer-led National Skills Academies can help spread Higher Education: Coventry good practice. This will support our drive to improve the learning experience. Finally, the Learning and Skills Improvement Service Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State will from April 2011 be the single sector led body for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he responsible for supporting FE colleges and training has made of the effects on the local economy of the organisations to maintain high quality in areas such as student population attending university in Coventry. leadership and management, teaching and learning, [25526] learner support and resource utilisation. Mr Willetts [holding answer 19 November 2010]: No Apprentices recent assessment has been made on the effects on the local economy of the student population attending Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for university in Coventry. Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to implement the pilots proposed in his Department’s However a report produced by Universities UK indicate 2007 Apprenticeship strategy to encourage under- that represented women apprentices into traditionally “Total output generated by the 169 UK Higher Education higher paid sectors. [25788] Institutes (HEIs) was estimated as £59 billion in 2007/08 (£14 billion more than a similar study in 2003/04). HEIs create directly Mr Hayes: The National Apprenticeship Service is and indirectly around 670,000 jobs and create export earnings currently finalising its negotiations to fund 16 Diversity worth £5.3 billion”. in Apprenticeships pilots. It is hoped that the pilots will The report is available at start early in 2011. We expect them to support approximately http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/Publications/Pages/ 5,000 apprenticeship opportunities for under represented ImpactOfUniversities4.aspx learners, including women in atypical sectors. The learning from these pilots will be used to influence the wider Higher Education: Finance programme. Digital Inclusion Task Force Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for from the public purse was spent on higher education in Business, Innovation and Skills what his most recent (a) England, (b) Lancashire and (c) Rossendale and assessment is of progress made by the Digital Inclusion Darwen constituency in each year from January 2005 Task Force; and if he will make a statement. [23821] to January 2010. [25263] 241W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 242W

Mr Willetts: The Department does not hold a consistent FY 2010-11 (£) data set on which to give a global answer for the whole of higher education (HE) spend. We do have information 2007-08 74,667,405 covering the three main elements of Government funding 2008-09 84,944,079 to HE. 2009-10 84,145,290 Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) 2010-11 85,475,540 grants HEFCE cannot identify funding for indirectly-funded Financial year Total HEFCE grant (£000) further education colleges separately. The amount of 2005-06 6,697,186 funding they receive will depend on locally-negotiated 2006-07 7,014,360 agreements with partner higher education institutions 2007-08 7,413,454 (HEIs). 2008-09 7,506,778 Science and research 2009-10 7,955,120 The following table gives spend on science and research Source: HEFCE Annual Reports spend through Research Councils to HEIs. Three HEIs in Lancashire are eligible for this funding. It does not The following institutions in Lancashire received direct include research spend by other Government Departments HEFCE funding in the period concerned: or research funding awarded by HEFCE which is included in the above figures. No expenditure can be identified as FY 2010-11 (£) spent in Rossendale and Darwen constituency.

Edge Hill University £000 2005-06 20,540,557 Financial 2006-07 26,144,373 year: 2004-5 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2007-08 24,227,304 C Lanes 505 432 677 891 1,093 2008-09 28,493,754 Edge Hill 2 10 11 74 163 2009-10 30,190,934 Lancaster 9,626 9,887 10,779 12,912 13,955 2010-11 27,559,294 UK 919,739 1,064,418 1,151,979 1,358,179 1,531,128

Accrington and Rossendale College 2005-06 855,129 Student support paid1 England and Lancashire 2006-07 782,814 2007-08 717,220 £ million 2008-09 668,829 Academic year England Lancashire 2009-10 750,399 2010-11 811,238 2004/05 2,577.7 61.6 2005/06 2,835.7 66.7 2006/07 4,057.0 96.4 Blackburn College 2007/08 4,931.4 116.5 2005-06 5,349,080 2008/09 5,930.8 140.6 2006-07 7,697,945 1 Loans, grants and allowances paid to students domiciled in England and 2007-08 7,914,172 studying in the UK. Excludes the tuition fee grants phased out after 2005/06 2008-09 8,786,434 and part-time fee grants. Includes part-time course grants. Source: 2009-10 10,587,402 Student Loans Company 2010-11 10,806,350 Student support spend figures include the cash value Lancaster University of loans paid. This does not represent the long-term cost to public funds as loans will be repaid. Complete 2005-06 49,959,815 figures are not yet available after academic year 2008/09. 2006-07 61,091,660 Robust student support figures are not available at 2007-08 53,743,843 constituency level. 2008-09 61,198,766 2009-10 60,933,748 2010-11 48,909,854 Local Enterprise Partnerships

Blackpool and the Fylde College 2005-06 6,365,608 John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006-07 6,340,867 Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on 2007-08 7,451,150 the appropriate number of members of the board of a 2008-09 8,254,848 local enterprise partnership. [24306] 2009-10 9,137,212 2010-11 8,987,927 Mr Prisk: No Government expectations have been set out regarding the number of board members. The University of Central Lancashire Government will normally expect to see business representatives form half the board, with a prominent 2005-06 74,950,992 business leader in the chair as explained in the White 2006-07 76,665,491 Paper on Local Growth. 243W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 244W

Trading Standards (iii) to sustain an international focus for film exhibition, through the BFI Southbank, the London Film Festival and through mediatheques and other exhibition partnerships across the UK; Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for and Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of local authorities provided returns to Trading Standards (iv) to ensure the widest diversity of film and knowledge about film is available to everyone in the UK. in accordance with the Hallmarking Act 1973 in each of the last five years. [25317] The remit to support British film makers and the British film industry currently sits with the UK Film Mr Davey: There is no requirement under the Council through the film lottery fund. The responsibility Hallmarking Act 1973 for local authority trading standards for the distribution of these funds, following the abolition departments to submit a return on their enforcement of the UKFC, will be transferred to an existing body. activities under the Act. However, local authorities Details of who the new distributor will be are to be voluntarily submit an annual return on such activities announced later this month. to the Trading Standards Institute (TSI). TSI provide a Departmental Postal Services summary of these to the British Hallmarking Council who publish this in their annual report. Using these figures, the proportion of local authorities providing Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for returns to the TSI are as follows: Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) what the monetary value was of contracts between his Percentage Department and (a) Post Office Ltd and (b) Royal Mail in (i) 1997-98 and (ii) each year since 2004-05; 2005 73 [24911] 2006 52 (2) what services provided by his Department were 2007 37 the subject of a contract with Post Office Ltd in 2008 43 1997-98 and have subsequently become the subject of a 2009 59 contract with another supplier; and what the monetary value was of each such contract in (a) 1997-98 and (b) the latest period for which figures are available in each case; [24912] CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT (3) which services of his Department have been the BBC: Directors subject of a contract awarded in a tender process in which Post Office Ltd submitted a bid since 1997-98; Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for [24913] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent (4) what steps his Department has taken to identify meetings special advisers in his Department have had those of its services that could be provided through the with the director-general of the BBC; and whether Post Office network. [24914] pensions were discussed at those meetings. [25012] Mr Vaizey: Since 1997-98, the Department has had Mr Vaizey: There have been no meetings between no formal contracts with the Post Office or Royal Mail, special advisers in the Department and the director-general and no contracts have been let in which Post Office Ltd of the BBC, Mark Thompson, since the terms of the submitted a bid. licence fee agreement were settled on 18 and 19 October. The cost of BBC pensions was referred to in discussing English Heritage the settlement. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for British Film Institute: Finance Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) how many submissions each regional office of English Heritage Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for has made to local planning authorities at the planning Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what conditions application stage in each of the last five years; [26036] are attached to the annual grant in aid funding (2) how much English Heritage spent on preparing awarded to the British Film Institute (BFI) to support its report on the economic impact of heritage in British film makers and the British film industry; and if Yorkshire and the Humber; [26037] he will take steps to ensure that the activities of the BFI which are funded by this grant in aid positively (3) how much English Heritage spent on research discriminate in favour of promoting, exhibiting and into the thermal performance of traditional sash supporting British contemporary film and British film windows for the purposes of its report on Sash Windows: Why They Are Worth Keeping; [26038] makers. [25212] (4) how much English Heritage spent on (a) press, Mr Vaizey: The BFI currently has a funding agreement (b) publicity, (c) marketing and (d) communications with the UK Film Council, but this will change when in each of the last five years; [26039] the UKFC is abolished as DCMS is currently progressing (5) how much English Heritage spent on (a) plans to set up a more direct relationship with BFI. entertainment, (b) accommodation and (c) BFI’s current strategic objectives are: subsistence in each of the last five years. [26040] (i) to secure the National Film Archive to ensure that the Collections are safe for future generations; John Penrose: The information requested is not held (ii) to evolve a digital hub for access to its collections by the by the Department and relates to matters that are the public; responsibility of English Heritage. 245W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 246W

Accordingly, I have asked the chief executive of English Bees Nees Heritage to write direct to the hon. Member for Lancaster Caledonia TV and Fleetwood. Channel 4 Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of Comedy Unit both Houses. Eyeline Media Music: Copyright Finestripe Productions ITV Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for IWC Media Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent La Belle Allee Productions Ltd discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on Lion Television extending copyright for musicians’ works from 50 to 75 Mac TV years. [25784] Mallinson Sadler Productions Matchlight Limited Mr Davey: I have been asked to reply. Michael Darlow I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave on Mike Bolland 18 November 2010, Official Report, column 889W. No discussions of the kind referred to have taken place. Ofcom PACT Ofcom: Scotland Scottish Screen Scottish Government Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Skyline Productions Ltd Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what (a) STV discussions and (b) correspondence he had with Tattiemoon the Secretary of State for Scotland prior to the Government’s decision not to accept the Tern TV recommendation by Ofcom that Scottish Television True TV and Film Ltd should be classified as a qualified independent Turmeric Media producer. [25058] UKTV Ulan Productions Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, UTV Media and Sport is in regular contact with the Secretary of State for Scotland on a range of matters important Visible Ink Television to Scotland. Television: East Sussex HEALTH Air Pollution: Biomass Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for plans to take to improve the quality of television Health what estimate he has made of the effects on (a) reception in East Sussex. [25422] mortality and (b) morbidity of air quality pollutants emitted by biomass plants in the UK. [25377] Mr Vaizey: As the independent regulator for the communications industry, Ofcom is responsible for ensuring Richard Benyon: I have been asked to reply. broadcasters comply with their licence conditions in Biomass plants emit, in particular, fine particles (PM2.5) areas such as transmission coverage and reception. and nitrogen oxides. No estimates of current mortality, I have therefore asked Ofcom’s chief executive to or morbidity, specifically resulting from emissions from consider the question raised by the hon. Member for these plants in the UK, have been made. Brighton, Kemptown and to write to him direct. A general assessment of the health impacts of PM2.5, based on 2008 air quality data, estimated that man Television: Scotland made emissions of PM2.5 reduced the average life expectancy of people living in the UK by 6 months at an annual Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for cost of £15 billion within the range of £8 to £17 billion. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what consultation Biomass combustion in 2008 was estimated to emit his Department had with (a) Scottish Television, (b) 7.6% of the UK total PM2.5 emissions. Scottish Enterprise, (c) trade unions in Scotland and Autism: Health Services (d) the broadcasting industry in Scotland prior to the Government’s decision not to accept the Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for recommendation by Ofcom that Scottish Television Health what mechanism he plans to put in place to should be classified as a qualified independent ensure adequate healthcare support for people with producer. [25043] autism when they enter adulthood. [25644] Mr Vaizey: The Department held a public consultation Paul Burstow: Effective transition planning that supports from 4 November 2009 to 2 February 2010 on the young people with autism into adulthood is one of the potential reclassification of production companies owned key aims of the autism strategy, ‘Fulfilling and Rewarding by Channel 3 licence holders. Responses were received Lives’, and is also addressed in the draft statutory from these organisations: guidance recently consulted on. 247W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 248W

Currently, those who do not have a statement of for larger geographic areas such as primary care trust special educational needs have access to a health action and strategic health authority (SHA). The raw data for plan that covers medical management of their condition 2008-09 are publicly available at: and strategies to enable self-care and independent living. www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/supporting- The Department has also invested £500,000 to develop information/audits-and-performance/the-quality-and- materials and resources to improve awareness and training outcomes-framework/qof-2008/09/data-tables/prevalence- on autism for health and social care professionals to data-tables enable front-line staff to better provide services for The Consultation document on a Strategy for Services people with autism, including those in transition. for COPD in England contains an estimate of all COPD prevalence (including unrecorded prevalence), but this Benzodiazepines and Tranquillisers estimate has not currently been disaggregated by region. The Department has appointed respiratory clinical Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for leads in each of the 10 SHAs in England and they have Health how many (a) in-patients and (b) prisoners been provided with some benchmarking data. Part of received prescriptions for (i) benzodiazepine and (ii) Z the responsibility of these posts is to champion the drug tranquilisers in each of the last three years. reduction of any regional variation through local action, [25189] leading to improved patient outcomes at reduced cost to the national health service. Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of The Department has also funded a programme of in-patients or prisoners prescribed a particular medicine work with NHS Improvement and with each SHA or class of medicine is not collected centrally, nor are aimed at improving patient outcomes at reduced cost to data held relating to the number of prescription items the NHS, which should also reduce regional variation dispensed in hospitals or prisons. in the provision of services for COPD. Care Homes: Fees and Charges Cumberland Infirmary: Costs Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he issues guidance to NHS John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for organisations on requests made by (a) care homes and Health what estimate he has made of the capital cost of (b) primary care trusts to the relatives of patients on the Cumberland Infirmary, Cumbria. [24303] top-up financing. [25999] Mr Simon Burns: In 1997, approval was given to a Paul Burstow: The Department does not issue such scheme involving the development of the Cumberland guidance to national health service organisations. Infirmary, Carlisle through the private finance initiative (PFI). At financial close on 3 November 1997 this PFI The Department issues guidance to local authorities scheme was approved at £67 million. on top-up fees for local-authority-supported residential care in Local Authority Circular (2004) 20. A copy has Departmental Food been placed in the Library. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether his Department has guidelines on Health if he will estimate the cost per resident per week ensuring that food used for his Department’s official of residential care in local authority-owned care homes functions is of domestic origin. [25548] in (a) Hampshire and (b) Southampton in the latest period for which figures are available. [26001] Mr Simon Burns: The legal framework governing public procurement is designed to ensure that public Paul Burstow: Data on local authority expenditure procurement is fair, transparent and not used to discriminate and unit costs on state-funded social care for 2008-09 by setting up barriers to free trade. were collected and published by the NHS Information Centre for health and social care. This means that public sector buyers cannot restrict their purchases to specific locations or suppliers, as this We are informed by the Information Centre that, in would discriminate against producers from further away 2008-09, the average cost per resident per week of and, also, reduce competition contrary to United Kingdom residential care in local authority owned residential public procurement policy that is designed to achieve care homes was £894 in Hampshire and £928 in better value for money for the taxpayer. Southampton. Quadrant Catering provides the staff restaurant and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease hospitality catering at the Department of Health sites in London and Eurest Services provides the same services Nick Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to Department of Work and Pensions, which includes what recent assessment he has made of regional the Quarry House site in Leeds where some Department variations in the prevalence of chronic obstructive of Health employees are based. Both Quadrant Catering pulmonary disease. [26126] and Eurest Services are part of Compass Group UK and Ireland, one of the UK’s largest contract caterers. Mr Simon Burns: General practitioners (GPs) gather The current catering and hospitality offer to the data on the prevalence of chronic obstructive pulmonary Department is based around healthier eating choices, disease (COPD) through the Quality and Outcomes although Compass Group UK and Ireland has a strong Framework. This means that data on recorded COPD commitment to sourcing British produce as part of prevalence are available for each GP practice, as well as their corporate responsibility framework. 249W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 250W

Departmental Press: Subscriptions Oversight of the adequacy of spending to meet locally identified need is part of the role of the National Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse. how much (a) his Department and (b) the non- departmental public bodies for which he is responsible Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for usbspent on press cuttings services in each of the last Health how much funding was allocated to the pooled 12 months. [25488] treatment budget for the National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse in (a) each of the last five years Mr Simon Burns: The Department sources its national and (b) each year of the comprehensive spending press cuttings service via a framework agreement used review period. [25448] by various Government Departments. Daily cuttings from the national press have been provided by Precise Anne Milton: Direct central Government funding for Media since 1 July 2007. community drug treatment is allocated through the Prior to April 2010, regional press cuttings were pooled treatment budget (PTB). sourced from Kantar Media Intelligence (formally known For the past five years funding was allocated as as TNS Media Intelligence) via a rolling agreement. follows: Since April 2010, the regional press cuttings service has been provided by Precise Media. Young people (£ The amount the Department has spent on both national Adult million) Total (£ million) and regional cuttings for each of the 12 months is 2006-07 360.0 24.6 384.6 provided in the following table: 2007-08 373.3 24.7 398 2008-09 373.3 24.7 398 Monthly expenditure on press cuttings 2009-10 381.3 24.7 406 Department of Health Services1 (£) 2010-11 381.3 25.4 406.7 November 2009 16,591.42 December 2009 9,108.57 Central Government funding allocations for drug January 2010 9,837.85 treatment in the next five years are yet to be agreed. February 2010 7,922.94 Food Standards Agency: Local Government March 2010 15,809.35 April 2010 11,948.37 May 2010 10,093.69 Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for June 2010 9,301.29 Health what proportion of local authorities provided July 2010 8,509.91 data to the Food Standards Agency for its survey on August 2010 7,571.22 (a) imported foods return and (b) melamine testing September 2010 6,912.60 results. [25313] October 2010 n/a Total 113,607.23 Anne Milton: Imported foods are checked by local n/a = not available authorities at the point of entry (sea and air ports) to 1 All figures provided are exclusive of valued added tax (VAT) and are based on the United Kingdom. 26 ports made an imported food invoice date rather than payment date. return to the Food Standards Agency (FSA) through Information on the amount spent on press cuttings the Local Authority Enforcement Monitoring System. services incurred by non-departmental public bodies is These ports received a total of 417,867 consignments of not held centrally. both animal and non-animal origin food. Drugs: Misuse Reports have been provided by local authorities at four ports on melamine testing at point of entry. The Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for FSA has received a further nine returns from in-land Health what plans he has for the delivery of drug local authorities sampling for melamine. No results treatment services under his proposals for a public gave rise to any cause for concern. health service. [25446] General Practitioners: Lancashire Anne Milton: We will publish proposals for helping people to recover from drug dependence and reducing Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the harms that drugs cause in our forthcoming Public how many patients were seen by out-of-hours services Health White Paper, and Drugs strategy. in (a) Lancashire and (b) Rossendale and Darwen constituency in each of the last five years. [25364] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department is taking to ensure Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not that local investment in drug treatment services is collected centrally. However, my hon. Friend may wish maintained. [25447] to contact each primary care trust direct for more information. Anne Milton: Drug treatment services are commissioned by local partnerships of health, criminal justice and Health: Males social care services, they fund drug treatment services from the centrally allocated Pooled Treatment Budget Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and their own funding sources. In 2010-11 around what steps he plans to take to assist GP consortia in £200 million was allocated for drug treatment from commissioning health services to address poor health local mainstream resources. among men. [25248] 251W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 252W

Mr Simon Burns: Consortia of general practitioner (3) with reference to the White Paper, Equity and (GP) practices working with other health and care Excellence: Liberating the NHS, whether HIV services professionals will commission the great majority of will be commissioned by the National Commissioning national health service services for their patients. To Board or by GP consortia from 2013; [25787] support GP consortia in their commissioning decisions, (4) whether the public health White Paper will we will create an independent NHS Commissioning include proposals to reduce the incidence of HIV. Board. The board will provide leadership for quality [25789] improvement through commissioning. This will include setting commissioning guidelines on the basis of clinically Anne Milton: Later this year we will publish the approved quality standards developed with advice from public health White Paper which will set out the design the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, of the new public health service for England. Consultation in a way that promotes joint working across health, documents accompanying the White Paper will set out public health and social care. the proposed funding and commissioning routes for Consortia will not be responsible for commissioning public health services, including proposals about how primary medical services, which will be the responsibility sexual health services might best be commissioned. The of the NHS Commissioning Board, but consortia will Department is also considering options for commissioning become increasingly influential in driving up the quality HIV treatment and care services including through the of general practice. The NHS Commissioning Board National Commissioning Board. will also commission the other family health services of dentistry, community pharmacy and primary ophthalmic Medical Treatments services, as well as national and regional specialised services and prison health services, but with the influence Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for and involvement of consortia. Health what processes will be put in place to ensure the The NHS Commissioning Board, supported by National Advisory Group for National Specialised Services will Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, will develop take account of new innovations in medical technology. a commissioning outcomes framework so that there is [25554] clear, publicly available information on the quality of healthcare services commissioned by consortia, including Mr Simon Burns: The Advisory Group for National patient experience, and their management of NHS Specialised Services uses a decision making framework resources. It would include measures to reflect the when considering applications for designation of services consortium’s duties to promote equality and to assess and treatments as part of the arrangements for the progress in reducing health inequalities. national commissioning of highly specialised services. Stimulating research and innovation is included in the decision making framework. A copy of the decision Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for Health making framework is available at: what steps on public health he plans to take to reduce www.specialisedservices.nhs.uk/doc/decision-making- the mortality rate among men. [25250] framework-making-recommendations-on-national- commissioning Anne Milton: We will publish a White Paper on public health later this year. This will set out the Mental Health Services Government’s plans for establishing a public health service and will also map a cross-Government strategy Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for on public health that will be taken forward in the future. Health what steps he is taking to ensure that mental health trusts are subject to the same financial penalties Hemofil T: Clinical Trials and governance measures for emergency readmissions as other NHS trusts. [25253]

Alun Michael: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Burstow: I refer the hon. Member to the written Health what proportion of patients on the Hemofil T answer I gave on 6 September 2010, Official Report, trial was classified as (a) mild, (b) moderate and (c) column 264W, to the hon. Member for Chatham and severe haemophiliac. [26073] Aylesford (Tracey Crouch).

Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold this Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for information. Hemofil T was a commercial product, so Health what proportion of mental health in-patients the clinical trials would have been conducted by the (a) are in single-sex wards and (b) have access to manufacturer Hyland-Travenol (now Baxter Healthcare). segregated toilet or bathing facilities. [25255]

HIV Infection: Health Services Paul Burstow: The information requested is not collected centrally. However, every patient has the right to receive high quality care that is safe, effective and respects their Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for privacy and dignity. This means providing a same-sex Health (1) what plans he has for HIV and sexual health sleeping area, bathroom and toilet facilities. In a mental services under his proposals for a public health service; health environment, accommodation should always be [25782] same sex. (2) what assessment he has made of the likely effects The only acceptable justification for admitting a mental of proposed reforms to the NHS on the commissioning health patient to mixed-sex accommodation is in the of HIV services; [25785] event of a clinical emergency and this must be to an 253W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 254W en-suite room. In such cases, a full risk-assessment must (2) whether he plans to respond to the on-line be carried out and complete safety, privacy and dignity petition on the Downing Street website on the lack of maintained. awareness of chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency; and if he will make a statement; [25152] Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) if he will publish his Department’s assessment of Health what assessment he has made of the availability the merits of making available treatment for chronic of the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies cerebrospinal venous insufficiency in NHS facilities. programme to people with severe depression or [25157] anxiety; and if he will make a statement. [25256] Paul Burstow: The Improving Access to Psychological Paul Burstow: There are various theories of causation Therapies (IAPT) programme is three years into a of multiple sclerosis (MS), one of which is the chronic six-year nationwide roll-out. IAPT services are expected cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCVSI) theory proposed to be available to approximately 60% of the population by Dr Paolo Zamboni, a vascular surgeon in Bologna, by the end of March 2011. The services have already Italy. He has suggested that MS is due to a narrowing or brought well over 77,000 people to recovery and 13,000 blockage of the veins that drain blood from the brain. people treated have come off sick pay and benefits. The narrowing restricts the normal outflow of blood from the brain, causing alterations in the blood flow The spending review settlement is expected to complete patterns within the brain that eventually causes injury the roll-out, with special emphasis on ensuring more to brain tissue and degeneration of neurons. Dr Zamboni older people get access to therapy and broadening the believes that endovascular surgery can restore blood benefits to children and young people, and individuals flow in these vessels, which lessens the symptoms of MS. with long-term physical health conditions and those with severe and enduring mental illness. Dr Zamboni’s first study in a group of 65 MS patients and 235 controls used ultrasound to investigate a possible Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for association between CCSVI and MS. The study showed Health what plans he has to enable people using mental that while non-MS patients had normal circulation in health services to choose their provider; and if he will their veins, all of the MS patients had blockages. This make a statement. [25257] led to a second phase of research, which looked at whether balloon angioplasty treatment, or stent placement, Paul Burstow: To fulfil a commitment in the White would improve the symptoms of MS in the group of 65 Paper, “Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS”, MS patients. Dr Zamboni reported various degrees of we published a consultation document on Choice in the improvement in the group, mostly among patients with NHS on 18 October 2010. The document “Liberating the relapsing-remitting form of MS who experienced the NHS: Greater choice and control. A consultation fewer flare-ups of symptoms and some improvements on proposals”, a copy of which has been placed in the in quality of life. The more pronounced secondary and Library, and instructions on how to submit responses primary progressive patients had limited improvement can be found at: after six months, and none at 18 months. www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultations/Liveconsultations/ Neurologists have outlined a number of limitations DH_119651 to Dr Zamboni’s studies. The ultrasound phase of the There will be a presumption that everyone will have study did not have its findings confirmed by another choice and control over their care and treatment, and lab. Also, Zamboni theorised that narrowing veins caused choice of any willing provider, wherever relevant. The increased deposition of iron in the brain. Iron deposition commitment for mental health is that the introduction occurs in different neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s of choice of treatment and provider in some mental disease or Parkinson’s disease but CCSVI was not seen health services will begin from April 2011, and that this in the control group with neurological problems. In the be extended wherever practicable. second phase of the study, there was no control group who did not get the surgery and whose outcomes could Midwives: Recruitment be compared to the patients that did. It was not a “blinded” trial so the patients, and their doctors, all Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for knew they had received the procedure, opening up the Health when he expects to announce his Department’s possibility of placebo effect. All the patients continued plans to increase levels of midwife recruitment and to take disease-modifying drugs, making it difficult to retention. [25349] separate out what, if anything, improved their condition. A larger, more recent, study at the University of Anne Milton: We will continue to train midwives at Buffalo’s Neuroimaging Analysis Centre looked at how current rates and we are considering ways of helping often CCSVI occurs in people with MS and in people improve midwife recruitment and retention. By 2013 without MS. The study of 500 subjects showed that (subject to levels of attrition), we expect up to 400 56.4% of people with MS showed signs of CCSVI, additional midwives per annum to be completing training while 26.4% of healthy test subjects also exhibited signs and available to enter the work force. of CCSVI. The centre is in the process of recruiting for Multiple Sclerosis a placebo-controlled trial of intravascular treatment with angioplasty in 30 relapsing- remitting MS patients. Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Venous stenosis due to developmental abnormalities (1) what assessment his Department has made of the was established as the primary cause of CCSVI by the merits of making available treatment for chronic International Union of Phlebology in its consensus cerebrospinal venous insufficiency throughout the document (published 2009), which provided guidelines NHS; [25151] on the diagnosis and treatment of venous malformations. 255W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 256W

MS campaigners have suggested that this means that CCSVI products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) also licensed a is almost certainly one of the causal factors of MS. herbal cannabis extract for the treatment of severe Dr Zamboni’s hypothesis has generated considerable spasticity in multiple sclerosis in June 2010. Information optimism among people with MS for more effective on the use of these drugs in the community and in treatment options. However, it has been received with hospitals is in the following tables. caution by many experts, who find it relies on limited Table 1: Community—Net ingredient cost (NIC) of prescription items written in the United Kingdom or the Isle of Man and dispensed in the community, in data to support claims that the syndrome actually exists; 1, 2 that it could be causative of (or a co-factor in) multiple England sclerosis and that vascular treatments for the syndrome £000 Herbal Interferon would prevent or reduce the incidence of multiple sclerosis. cannabis Glatiramer beta (1a and Larger clinical trials will be required before the theory is extract acetate 1b)Natalizumab Total more widely accepted by the medical community (the Buffalo study organisers have said that CCSVI requires 2000 — — 7,487.10 — 7,487.10 further investigation). 2001 — 16.7 8,360.30 — 8,377.00 2002 — 127.2 10,505.60 — 10,632.80 In the meantime, the neurology community and MS 2003 — 631.3 14,244.20 — 14,875.50 organisations across the world are recommending that 2004 0.0 1,418.90 16,411.10 — 17,830.10 MS patients do not use the proposed treatment, until its 2005 0.1 2,043.70 17,499.60 — 19,543.30 effectiveness is confirmed by controlled studies. 2006 265.6 2,311.90 16,507.90 — 19,085.40 The overall future of all e-petitions is bound into the 2007 355.2 2,776.40 15,936.80 — 19,068.40 Martha Lane Fox review, which will be announced 2008 416.2 3,341.50 17,957.20 — 21,714.90 imminently. We continue to issue responses to petitions 2009 480.2 3,915.50 18,410.70 — 22,806.40 that had exceeded the 500 signature threshold as of 1 ‘—’ Indicates there were no prescriptions dispensed in the community. 6 April 2010, when the e-petitions system was suspended 2 0.0 indicates a NIC of less than £50. Source: ahead of the 2010 general election. Prescription Cost Analysis system. The Department has made no assessment of the Table 2: Hospital—Estimated cost of hospital usage in England1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 merits of making treatment for chronic cerebrospinal £000 venous insufficiency (CCVSI) throughout the national Natalizumab Other drugs Total health service. 2001 — 1,996.1 1,996.1 Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2002 — 2,403.5 2,403.5 (1) what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of 2003 — 5,211.6 5,211.6 treatment for chronic cerebrospinal venous 2004 — 8,065.2 8,065.2 insufficiency for patients with multiple sclerosis; and if 2005 — 8,705.0 8,705.0 he will make a statement; [25153] 2006 — 10,355.8 10,355.8 2007 205.0 11,633.7 11,838.6 (2) how much was spent on (a) facilities, (b) 2008 3,374.8 13,026.1 16,400.9 equipment and (c) research relating to the treatment of 2009 10,258.3 17,860.1 28,118.3 multiple sclerosis in each of the last five years. [25159] 1 Data on hospital use is not collected centrally by the national health service. However, the commercial company IMS Health collect data from a large Paul Burstow: Information on the expenditure on sample of trusts and project these figures to give a national estimate. 2 Figures are based on a sample and costed using standard price lists, either the facilities and equipment for multiple sclerosis is not Drug Tariff or, if the drug is not listed, the drug manufacturer’s price list. The collected. Expenditure on research for multiple sclerosis figures therefore do not necessarily represent the actual amounts paid by the is given in the following table: hospitals. 3 Data includes all drugs dispensed in NHS hospital regardless of patient, so will include drugs dispensed to private patients in private wards within NHS £ million hospitals as long as they have been dispensed via the hospital pharmacy. The extent of this varies from hospital to hospital. 2005-06 0.8 4 Data are only held for complete years from 2001. 5 2006-07 0.01 The agreement with IMS Health under which the Department receives the data requires that it is not released for individual drugs unless they have been 2007-08 0.8 positively appraised by the National Institute for health and Clinical Excellence. 2008-09 1.8 Only natalizumab has been positively appraised, therefore combined figures for 2009-10 2.1 all the other drugs have been provided. 6 May exclude medicines supplied as part of homecare arrangements. Source: We have made no assessment of the effectiveness of IMS HEALTH: Hospital Pricing Audit Index database. treatment for chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency for patients with multiple sclerosis. NHS Trusts: Private Finance Initiative

Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for which drugs were available in NHS facilities for the Health how many rebates were granted to each NHS treatment of patients with multiple sclerosis in each of trust by Private Finance Initiative contractors under the last 10 years; and how much was spent on each type the terms of their contracts in each of the last five of drug in each such year. [25160] years; what the monetary value of the rebate was in each case; and what loss of service gave rise to each Mr Simon Burns: Drugs for the treatment of multiple rebate. [25761] sclerosis are classified in the British National Formulary (BNF), section 8.2.4 “Other immunomodulating drugs” Mr Simon Burns: The information is not held centrally and include interferon beta (1a and 1b), glatiramer and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. acetate and natalizumab. The Medicines and Healthcare The National Audit Office (NAO) published a report in 257W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 258W

June 2010 entitled “The Performance and management in developing its guidance. NICE’s ‘Guide to the methods of hospital PFI contracts” which includes information of technology appraisal’ explains how the cost per on payment deductions for failure to meet contractual QALYis used by appraisal committees in the development standards. This can be found at: of technology appraisal guidance and is available on the www.nao.org.uk/publications/1011/ NICE website at: pfi_hospital_contracts.aspx www.nice.org.uk/aboutnice/howwework/devnicetech/ technologyappraisalprocessguides/guidetothemethods NHS: Negligence oftechnologyappraisal.jsp?domedia=l&mid=B52851A3- 19B9-0B5-D48284D172BD8459 Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for NICE also issued supplementary advice to its appraisal Health (1) how many compensation payments for committees in 2009 to clarify the circumstances in which clinical malpractice in each specialism including it might be appropriate to recommend potentially life- general practice were made by each primary care trust extending treatments licensed for terminal illnesses affecting in each year since 2000; [25366] small numbers of patients that would not normally be (2) how much his Department has paid out in recommended through the application of NICE’s standard compensation payments for clinical malpractice in each technology appraisal methods. The supplementary advice specialism including general practice in respect of each is available on NICE’S website at: primary care trust area in each year since 2000. [25369] www.nice.org.uk/aboutnice/howwework/devnicetech/ technologyappraisalprocessguides/guidetothemethods Mr Simon Burns: The information requested was oftechnologyappraisal.jsp?domedia=l&mid=88ACDAE5- supplied by the NHS Litigation Authority and is in the 19B9-E0B5-D422589714A8EC6D document “Table of numbers of values of clinical negligence payments by primary care trusts from 2000 to 2010”. A Radiotherapy copy has been placed in the Library. Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Nurses: Manpower Health (1) when he expects the National Radiotherapy Implementation Group to publish its report on Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Radiosurgery; [25406] Health what steps his Department is taking to (2) when he expects the National Institute of Health maintain the number of nursing staff. [25799] and Clinical Excellence to review the use of cyberknife Anne Milton: The precise numbers of national health robotic technology. [25407] service nurses required over the next five years will not be known until the new organisations that will underpin Paul Burstow: It is anticipated that the National the new system have been designed in more detail. Radiotherapy Implementation Group (NRIG) will publish its report into radiosurgery early next year. The Department has consulted on how the new organisations should be designed and is analysing responses. As part of the report, NRIG has been tasked with Information on how the new organisations should be reviewing the use of stereotactic body radiotherapy designed will be announced in due course. (SBRT). NRIG has examined the SBRT technologies on the market, including Cyberknife, and the evidence The Government have fulfilled its commitment to base for clinical indications in order to produce guidance give the NHS a real terms increase in funding each year. for the role of SBRT in cancer treatment. The National The demands on the service are rising and to meet these Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) the NHS must make up to £20 billion of efficiency plans to use the work of NRIG to identify whether savings by 2014, by reducing bureaucracy and doing there are any indications that would be appropriate for things differently. Every penny saved will be reinvested them to evaluate further via the Medical Technologies to support the delivery of quality healthcare. Advisory Committee or other programmes at NICE. The NHS will release up to £20 billion of efficiency savings by 2014, which will be reinvested to support improvements in quality and outcomes. In addition, the Social Services Government will reduce NHS management costs by more than 45%, over the next four years, freeing up Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for Health further resources for front-line care. whether he plans to assess the effectiveness of local arrangements to promote joint working between health Prescription Drugs and social care arising from the funding provided in the comprehensive spending review. [25632] Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the National Institute for Health and Paul Burstow: In recognition of the pressures on the Clinical Excellence’s cost per QALY threshold is when social care system in a challenging local government appraising drugs likely to be prescribed to fewer than settlement, the coalition Government have allocated an 500 NHS patients; and what methodology was used to additional £2 billion by 2014-15 to support the delivery adjust the standard cost per QALY threshold to take of social care. As part of this, the national health account of the unique costs associated with the service will transfer some funding from the health capital development of drugs for such patient numbers. [25553] budget to health revenue, to be spent on measures that support social care, which also benefits health. This Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health funding will rise to £1 billion in 2014-15, and will and Clinical Excellence (NICE) does not operate a fixed promote improved joint working between the health cost per Quality Adjusted Life Year (QALY) threshold and social care systems. 259W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 260W

Further details will be set out in the NHS Operating Mr Simon Burns: The available information has been Framework 2011-12. £150 million in 2011-12 and placed in the Library. Information on the cost of litigation £300 million in 2012-13 has been set aside for spending by procedure is only available at disproportionate cost. on re-ablement, which helps people to regain their Other information on outcomes and costs by procedure independence after a crisis. For the remaining is not collected centrally. funding, we will set out specific allocations that they will transfer to local authorities for spending on social care services to benefit health, and to improve Surgery overall health gain. Primary care trusts and local authorities will need to work together to agree jointly Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for appropriate areas for social care investment, with a Health how many and what percentage of those shared analysis of need and a common agreement on operations cancelled for elective admissions since the outcomes to be met. We will also expect them to 1 April 2010 had been carried out on the latest date for monitor how this funding has been used, and report which figures are available. [25350] back to the Department. Sodium Thiopental: Exports Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not collect data on the total number of cancelled operations, or the Stephen Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for date on which all patients whose operation had been Health what the reasons are for the difference between cancelled, were treated. the requirements of the Medicines and Healthcare The Department collects and publishes information Products Regulatory Agency in respect of the on the number of elective operations that proposed export of sodium thiopental to (a) Europe were cancelled at the last minute (on the day of and (b) the US. [24302] admission or of operation), for non-clinical reasons. The Department also publishes information on the Anne Milton: The Treaty establishing the European number of patients treated within 28 days of their Community prohibits import and export restrictions operation being cancelled. between all member states. Controls on the movement The latest data, published on 12 November 2010, of goods within the internal market have been abolished shows: since 1993 and the European Community is now a that from April to September 2010 (quarters 1 and 2 2010-11), single territory without internal frontiers. 26,236 elective operations were cancelled, compared to 27,505 Medicines for human use are subject to an in the same period in 2009-10. extensive European regulatory regime. Provided that a of the 26,236 cancellations, 97.1% of patients were treated medicinal product complies with this regulatory regime within 28 days, compared to 96.8% in the same period in for common standards and it has been authorised by a 2009-10. national medicines regulatory body like the Medicines operations cancelled at the last minute represented 0.8% of all and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency in the elective activity in quarters 1 and 2. This compares to 1.1% cancelled United Kingdom or, the European Medicines Agency operations in the previous quarter (January to March 2010) that can permit the simultaneous marketing of medicines and 0.8% in quarters 1 and 2 2009-10. across the whole of the European Community, the Cancellations at any stage can be inconvenient and medicinal product may move freely around the European stressful for patients. Focusing on operations cancelled Community. at the last minute addresses cancellations that cause Medicines for human use that are marketed in the most distress to patients. It is the responsibility of European Community can also be exported to a country individual hospitals to ensure that they have the necessary outside of the European Community, provided that the staff, theatre space and beds available to keep cancellations export does not breach any European regulations to an absolute minimum. prohibiting such an activity. It is considered that under these circumstances it is the responsibility of the non European Community country to control the legality of Tobacco: Crime the medicinal product when imported into their country. Spinal Injuries: Surgery Julie Hilling: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent research his Department has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated of the effects of the Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for Health availability of illicit tobacco products on the incidence how many spinal procedures involving (a) discetomy, of (i) under age smoking and (ii) health conditions (b) decompression, (c) fusion, (d) total disc caused by contaminated illicit tobacco products; and if replacement, (e) endoscopic transforaminal surgery he will make a statement. [25221] and (f) each other category of procedure for which information is available were carried out in NHS facilities in each of the last five years; what the (i) Anne Milton: No research has been commissioned by clinical outcomes, (ii) cost to the public purse of the Department into these specific questions. Officials performing, (iii) cost of complications arising from and monitor and utilise all available relevant research in (iv) cost of litigation in connection with such their work to tackle the dangers to health from all forms procedures was in each such year; and what the cost to of tobacco product. the public purse was of (A) chronic pain management The Department works closely with HM Revenue and (B) cognitive behavioural therapy for patients who and Customs at all levels (international, national and underwent such procedures in each such year. [25394] local) in countering the availability of illicit tobacco. 261W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 262W

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Mr Harper: I refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) on Alternative Vote: Referendums 6 September 2010, Official Report, column 306W on the matter of the length of fixed-term Parliaments. I also Chris Bryant: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister received several representations from those Members what estimate he has made of the number of members who took part in proceedings in Committee of the of the peerage who would be eligible to vote in a Whole House on the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill on referendum on the voting system solely by virtue of a 16 November. The hon. Member will appreciate it is not business interest in the City of London under the standard practice to publish correspondence from members proposal in clause 2(2) of the Parliamentary Voting of the public. System and Constituencies Bill. [25598] Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what Mr Harper: The Government have made no such discussions he has had with the Prime Minister on the estimate. The franchise for municipal elections in the length of fixed-term Parliaments. [25867] City of London is a matter for the City of London Corporation. Mr Harper: The Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister meet regularly to discuss the current programme Cooperative Bank for Government, part of which is our programme of constitutional and political reform. Mr Blunkett: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister on what dates he has met the Co-operative Bank in House of Lords: Reform November 2010. [25689]

The Deputy Prime Minister: The Deputy Prime Minister Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister (1) what publishes details of all official external meetings on a his policy is on the body which should have quarterly basis. responsibility for drawing up constituencies for elections to a reformed second chamber; [25864] http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/transparency/dpm- meetings.csv (2) what proposals he has for the electoral system to be used for elections to a reformed second chamber. Electoral Register [25869]

Chris Bryant: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how Mr Harper: The cross-party Committee on House of much each local authority in (a) Scotland, (b) Wales, Lords reform, chaired by the Deputy Prime Minister, is (c) Northern Ireland and (d) England has spent on considering all issues pertinent to reform of the House the annual canvass for the electoral register in each of of Lords including the electoral system and constituencies the last three years. [25419] to be used in elections to a reformed second chamber.

Mr Harper: The Government do not hold this Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what his information; however, the Electoral Administration policy is on the establishment of a wholly-elected Act 2006 provided powers for the Electoral Commission second chamber. [25868] to request financial information from Returning Officers and Electoral Registration Officers across Great Britain. Mr Harper: The cross-party Committee on House of In June 2010, the Electoral Commission published a Lords reform, chaired by the Deputy Prime Minister, report, The Cost of Electoral Administration in Great will bring forward proposals for a wholly or mainly Britain which provides details of data collected by the directly elected second chamber on the basis of proportional Commission. This can be accessed on the Electoral representation. The final composition of the reformed Commission’s website at: second chamber, and whether it is to be wholly or http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/performance- mainly elected, is yet to be determined. standards/financial-information It provides details of the spend by local authorities in Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what (a) Scotland (b) Wales and (c) England on the annual representations he has received on the electoral system canvass (where information has been provided) for 2007-8 to be used in elections to a reformed second chamber. and 2008-9. [25870] Information on the 2009-10 financial year is not yet available, and was not collected in 2006-7. Mr Harper: To date, the Deputy Prime Minister has Northern Ireland has had a system of individual received a number of representations from MPs, peers, electoral registration in place since 2002, and in 2006 members of the public and those with a professional or the annual canvass was replaced with a system of academic interest on the issue of House of Lords reform. ’continuous registration’ based on data matching the Some representations have discussed the type of electoral electoral register against other public databases. system to be used in elections to a reformed second chamber. Fixed-term Parliaments Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister (1) what Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he will recent discussions he has had with the Prime Minister publish each representation he has received on the on the (a) electoral system for and (b) number of length of fixed-term Parliaments. [25866] members of a reformed second chamber; [25871] 263W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 264W

(2) what discussions he has had with the Prime Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers have met with a wide Minister on the body which will have responsibility for range of interested parties to discuss various aspects of drawing up constituencies or regional areas for financial sector taxation since the formation of the elections to any reformed second chamber. [25872] Government.

Mr Harper: The Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Minister meet regularly to discuss the current programme what recent representations he has received from the for Government, part of which is our programme of banking sector on the bank balance sheet levy; and if constitutional and political reform. he will make a statement. [25227]

Mr Hoban: The Government published Bank Levy: TREASURY A Consultation on 13 July 2010, and invited the views of business, as well as the views of representative bodies Arch Cru and tax advisers on the design and implementation of the Levy. The Government received a total of 48 responses Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Chancellor of the on a wide range of issues. Details of the responses Exchequer what recent discussions has he had with the received, and a full list of respondents, were set out in Financial Services Authority on the collapse of Arch Bank Levy: Consultation Response, published on Cru funds. [25461] 21 October, available at: http://hm-treasury.gov.uk/fin_bank_levy.htm Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials meet members of the FSA on a regular basis to discuss a Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) wide range of economic and financial issues. It is not what estimate he has made of the amount of revenue the Government’s practice to provide details of such accruing to the public purse from the bank levy in each meetings. of the next four financial years; [25229] (2) what assessment he has made of the likely effect Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Chancellor of the on the banking sector of the proposed changes to Exchequer what recent representations he has received corporation tax in each of the next four financial years; on the collapse of Arch Cru funds. [25462] [25230] Mr Hoban: The Government have received (3) what revenue he expects to accrue to the correspondence regarding Arch Cru funds, but this is a Exchequer from the bank levy in each of the next four matter for the Financial Services Authority (FSA), as financial years. [25237] the independent regulator, and Capita as the Authorised Corporate Director to pursue. Mr Hoban: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for St. Ives (Andrew George) Bank Levy on 26 July 2010, Official Report, column 722W.

Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Banks: Finance (1) what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers in his Department have had with representatives of the (i) Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) British Bankers’ Association and (ii) Investment if he will publish his Department’s assessment of the Management Association to discuss (A) the proposed effects on growth, output and inflation of the Bank of bank levy and (B) taxation of the financial services England’s asset purchase facility to date; [25231] sector since May 2010; when each such meeting took (2) what assessment his Department has made on the place; and who was present at each such meeting; effects on growth, output and inflation of the Bank of [25009] England’s asset purchase facility being extended by (2) what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers in his £50 billion. [25232] Department have had with representatives of the (i) Hedge Fund Association and (ii) Alternative Mr Hoban: Assessments of the asset purchase facility Investment Management Association since his can be found in the Bank of England quarterly inflation appointment to discuss the taxation of the financial reports. In particular, the May 2009 inflation report services sector; when each such meeting took place; explains how quantitative easing works to impact the and who was present at each such meeting; [25051] economy through various channels including higher money supply, lower long-term interest rates and rising (3) what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers in his asset prices. An assessment of the impact on asset Department have had with representatives of the banks prices, in particular on the gilt market, is made in the which will be affected by the proposed bank levy since May 2010 inflation report which says: his appointment; when each such meeting took place; and who was present at each such meeting; [25054] “asset purchases appear to be having a sizeable downward effect on gilt yields...equity and corporate bond prices have increased (4) what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers in his significantly since early 2009. That is likely, in part, to reflect the Department have had with representatives of the exceptional monetary stimulus”. Robin Hood Tax campaign to discuss (i) the The independent Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) proposed bank levy and (ii) taxation of the financial of the Bank of England has operational responsibility services sector since his appointment; when each such for monetary policy. It is the MPC which assesses and meeting took place; and who was present at each such decides on the appropriate monetary policy stance in meeting. [25057] order to target 2% inflation, as measured by the 12-month 265W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 266W change in the consumer prices index (CPI). This includes Reliable estimates are not available at parliamentary decisions on the use of the asset purchase facility (APF) constituency or regional level due to small survey sample and any further extensions. sizes at this level of geography. Child Benefit Liz Kendall: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has made a recent estimate of the number Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of single parents in each (a) parliamentary whether he has made a recent estimate of the number constituency and (b) region who earn £44,000 or more of households with a combined income of more than a year and who are in receipt of child benefit. [16970] £44,000 per annum in which (a) one person and (b) no-one earns £44,000 or more per annum. [16769] Mr Gauke [holding answer 13 October 2010]: Information on household income for child benefit Mr Gauke: In 2010-11, the estimated numbers of claimants is not available at parliamentary constituency households with a combined income of more than level. £44,000 per annum in which: Information on the number of single parents with (a) at least one person has income of £44,000 or more per annum is 2.9 million (with median incomes of around £75,000). incomes of £44,000 or more a year and are in receipt of child benefit is not available at regional level as it is (b) no one has income of £44,000 or more per annum is 2.5 million (with median incomes of around £50,000). potentially disclosive.

Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Liz Kendall: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of (a) single whether he has made a recent estimate of the number and (b) multiple income households which will be of people in each (a) parliamentary constituency and affected by his proposed change to child benefit (b) region who earn £44,000 or more a year and who arrangements. [16771] are in receipt of child benefit. [16971]

Mr Gauke: The proposed changes to child benefit Mr Gauke [holding answer 13 October 2010]: arrangements in 2013 will affect around 200,000 single Information on household income for child benefit income households and 1.3 million multiple income claimants is not available at parliamentary constituency households. level. The numbers of families in each region where one Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the member has income of £44,000 or more a year and Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects where the family is in receipt of child benefit in 2010-11 on single parents of his Department’s proposed is presented in the following table: changes to child benefit. [16929] Families in each region where one member has income of £44,000 or more a year and where the family is in receipt of child benefit, 2010-11 Mr Gauke: Before making the decision to withdraw Government office region Number child benefit from households with a higher rate taxpayer, the Chancellor considered an equalities screening assessment North-east 40,000 for this measure, which included an estimate of the North-west and Merseyside 90,000 number of lone parent households affected by this Yorkshire and Humberside 70,000 measure. East midlands 60,000 West midlands 90,000 Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the Eastern 130,000 Exchequer what estimate he has made of the cost of London 220,000 implementing his Department’s proposed changes to South-east 280,000 child benefit. [16930] South-west 90,000

Mr Gauke: The preliminary indicative estimate for Country delivering the change to child benefit announced by the England 1,070,000 Chancellor on 4 October 2010 is £130 million over the Wales 30,000 four year spending review period. Scotland 100,000 Northern Ireland 20,000 Liz Kendall: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has made a recent estimate of the number United Kingdom 1,200,000 of couples in each (a) parliamentary constituency and (b) region in respect of which one adult earns £44,000 or more and the other is not in paid employment. Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer [16969] how many dual income families with a household income between £43,875 and £87,750 are in receipt of Mr Gauke [holding answer 13 October 2010]: There child benefit. [17921] are an estimated 560,000 couples in the United Kingdom in 2010-11 where one adult earns £44,000 or more and Mr Gauke: There are estimated to be around 1.6 million the other has no earnings. dual income families with a household income of between This estimate is based on Family Resources Survey £43,875 and £87,750 and in receipt of child benefit in data projected to 2010-11. Earnings denotes income 2010-11. Within these 1.6 million dual income families from employment including self-employment income. it is estimated that 640,000 have a higher rate taxpayer. 267W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 268W

Alun Cairns: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer in respect of which the mother pays income tax at the how much he estimates the Government will save as a basic rate and the father pays income tax at the higher result of (a) non-indexation of and (b) changes to rate under the reforms proposed in the spending entitlement to child benefit in each year of the 2010 review; [21397] spending review period. [20809] (3) if he will make an estimate of the monetary value of a child benefit payment to a mother who pays Mr Gauke: The amount that will be saved from income tax at the basic rate who has two children freezing child benefit for three years and removing it whose father pays income tax at the higher rate and is from higher rate taxpayers is shown in the following no longer part of a couple with their mother under the table: reforms proposed in the spending review; [21398]

£ million Mr Gauke [holding answer 2 November 2010]: From 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 January 2013, child benefit will be withdrawn from Freezing child benefit for three 365 695 940 975 families with a higher rate taxpayer so that people on years from 2011-12 lower incomes are not subsidising those who are better Removing child benefit from 0 590 2,420 2,500 off. It is not fair to expect those earning £15,000 or households with a higher rate £30,000 to go on paying the child benefit of those taxpayer earning £50,000 or £100,000. Total 365 1,285 3,360 3,475 Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the Pat Glass: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer (1) what plans he has to implement his what estimate he has made of the number of proposal to withdraw eligibility for child benefit for households in (a) the North East and (b) the UK households which include a higher rate taxpayer; which will be affected by the withdrawal of child [21568] benefit from families with a higher rate tax payer. (2) what timetable he has set for the introduction of [20842] restrictions on the payment of child benefit to households with one or more higher rate taxpayers; Mr Gauke: The number of households affected by [21569] the withdrawal of child benefit from families with a (3) by what mechanism he plans to enforce the higher rate tax payer in 2013: ending of child benefit payments to households with (a) in the north-east is estimated to be around 50,000 one or more higher rate taxpayers; [21570] (b) in the UK is estimated to be around 1.5 million. (4) whether he plans to identify those households with one or more higher rate taxpayers which are in Miss Begg: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer receipt of child benefit by requiring them to self-certify. how many women who are (a) basic rate taxpayers and [21571] (b) non-earners will no longer receive child benefit as a result of proposed changes to the eligibility criteria. Mr Gauke: The policy to withdraw child benefit from [20857] families containing a higher rate taxpayer will be introduced from January 2013 and will be administered through Mr Gauke: Women will only stop receiving child the tax system using existing systems and processes. benefit if another member of their household is a It will be the responsibility of the higher rate taxpayer higher rate taxpayer and the family chooses to cease to inform HMRC whether their household is in receipt their child benefit claim. All other mothers in such of child benefit. In line with the normal administration households will continue to receive child benefit with of tax, HMRC has enforcement powers in the case of the relevant monies recovered via the income tax system. non-disclosure of information relevant to a person’s tax affairs, including penalties. Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the principle of independent Lindsay Roy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer taxation will apply to his proposed changes to child what assessment he has made of the average change in benefit arrangements. [21395] household income of a family with children as a result of (a) maintaining child benefit at the current level Mr Gauke [holding answer 2 November 2010]: The and (b) withdrawal of the Child Trust Fund scheme. withdrawal of child benefit from families containing a [23680] higher rate taxpayer will not affect the principle of independent taxation. Mr Gauke: In 2011-12 average household income of a family with children will fall by approximately £47 per Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the year as a result of the freeze in the level of child benefit. Exchequer (1) if he will make an estimate of the The Child Trust Fund (CTF) scheme is not being monetary value of a child benefit payment to a withdrawn. While eligibility for CTFs will cease from household of a couple who live together with two January 2011, existing CTF accounts will continue to children in which the mother pays income tax at the benefit from tax-free investment growth and any basic rate and the father pays income tax at the higher contributions from the child’s family and friends. No rate under the reforms proposed in the spending withdrawals will be possible until the child reaches age review; [21396] 18. As the first CTF child will not reach age 18 until (2) if he will make an estimate of the monetary value 2020 the changes to the CTF scheme will have no of a child benefit payment to a household of two impact on the average household income of a family children with parents who are a couple who live apart with children. 269W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 270W

Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Child Benefit: Scotland how many single income families with an annual household income between (a) £50,000 and £87,749, Miss Begg: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (b) £87,750 and £249,999, (c) £250,000 and £499,999 whether he has made a recent estimate of the number and (d) £500,000 and £1,000,000 are in receipt of child of households in (a) Aberdeen South constituency, benefit. [25420] (b) Aberdeen local authority and (c) Scotland which will be affected by the withdrawal of child benefit from Mr Gauke: There are estimated to be around 80,000 families with a higher rate tax payer. [19451] single income households with a household income between £50,000 and £87,749 and around 30,000 with Mr Gauke: Information on household income for incomes between £87,750 and £249,999. child benefit claimants is not available at parliamentary Estimates for single income households with incomes constituency level or local authority level. in the remaining groups are not available due to small The number of families in Scotland that will be sample sizes. affected by the withdrawal of child benefit from higher-rate taxpayers from January 2013 is estimated to be around Child Benefit: Chester 120,000.

Stephen Mosley: To ask the Chancellor of the Child Poverty: Comprehensive Spending Review Exchequer how many households in City of Chester constituency claim child benefit; and how many such Lisa Nandy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer households include a higher rate taxpayer. [17320] what the evidential basis is for his assessment of the effect of the outcomes of the comprehensive spending Mr Gauke: The information requested on the number review on child poverty. [21614] of households in City of Chester constituency can be found at: Mr Gauke: There is no measurable impact on child http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- poverty from all modelled spending review changes up aug09.pdf to 2012-13. Not all measures could be reliably modelled This information is based on a snapshot as at August 2009 due to data constraints. Details of the measures considered of all child benefit claims. in Treasury analysis on child poverty were published in The information on how many of these households “Spending Review 2010: Distributional Impact Analysis- contain a higher rate taxpayer is not available. Data Sources”.

Child Benefit: Databases Corporation Tax: Third Sector

John Mann: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Paul Maynard: To ask the Chancellor of the if he will estimate the cost of (a) creating and (b) Exchequer how much revenue was collected in maintaining a new child benefit database to match data corporation tax from (a) social enterprises and (b) on mothers with data of their partner’s income. [22660] community interest companies in 2009-10. [20459]

Mr Gauke: From January 2013, child benefit will be Mr Gauke: Information on the amount of revenue withdrawn by HMRC from the higher rate taxpayer which was collected from corporation tax paid by (a) using existing PAYE and SA systems, which avoids social enterprises and (b) community interest companies additional systems being developed. The implementation in 2009-10 is not available. of this policy requires only modest changes to existing IT systems. We do not envisage the need for any significant Departmental Food additional IT to support this policy. Julian Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Child Benefit: Females Exchequer whether his Department has guidelines on ensuring that food used for his Department’s official Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the functions is of domestic origin. [25534] Exchequer what percentage of those in receipt of child benefit in (a) Newcastle Upon Tyne North Justine Greening: Meat, dairy and other food products constituency, (b) the North East and (c) England are are provided to HM Treasury staff under a facilities management contract. There is no specific policy or female. [24470] guideline on food procurement in general or for specific Mr Gauke: The following table shows the estimated functions. However, HM Treasury encourages the facilities percentage of child benefit recipients who were female management provider to support UK produce wherever as at August 2009. commercially viable and when available.

Female child benefit recipients Departmental Manpower (%)

Newcastle Upon Tyne North 94 Jesse Norman: To ask the Chancellor of the North East 94 Exchequer what the (a) mean and (b) median age of England 91 staff in his Department was on the latest date for which figures are available. [25745] 271W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 272W

Justine Greening: The mean and the median ages of joint work with the Cabinet Office’s Efficiency and staff who work in HM Treasury are 35.8 and 32 respectively. Reform Group which, alongside digital means, proposed The latest date for the information used to calculate using the Post Office increasingly as a front office for this information is 1 October 2010. Government.

Jesse Norman: To ask the Chancellor of the Excise Duties: Tobacco Exchequer how many staff of his Department are aged between (a) 21 and 30, (b) 31 and 40, (c) 41 and 50 Julie Hilling: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer and (d) 51 and 60. [25750] what discussions he has had with the European Commission on the EU Cooperation Agreement Justine Greening: The number of staff within HM (EUCA) signed by British American Tobacco to reduce Treasury aged (a) 20 to 29, (b) 30 to 39, (c) 40 to 49, the illicit trade in tobacco; what steps the Government (d) 50 to 59 and (e) 60+ are listed in the following is taking to support the EUCA; and if he will make a table. statement. [25222]

Age band of staff Total Justine Greening: The UK became signatories to the co-operation agreement with British American Tobacco 20-29 463 (BAT)inJuly. 30-39 426 The agreement is one of a series of agreements between 40-49 234 the EU and multi-national tobacco companies which 50-59 158 the UK has also signed. The agreements complement 60+ 21 existing legislation that requires all tobacco manufacturers to prevent smuggling through careful control of their Jesse Norman: To ask the Chancellor of the supply chains. Responsibility for implementing the Exchequer what the annual turnover of staff in his agreements rests with HMRC who are in regular contact Department was in each of the last five years. [25753] with the European Commission. The agreements will facilitate better control over Justine Greening: HM Treasury staff turnover for tobacco smuggling with enhanced co-operation from each of the five years is as follows: other member states as a result of better working relationships with EU partners. They will also hold the Percentage tobacco manufacturers accountable for their actions 2009-10 21.4 and encourage responsible trade by requiring the 2008-09 22.4 manufacturers to make substantial annual payments to 2007-08 38.3 the EU and participating member states over a period of years and to put in place measures to control the 2006-07 24.6 supply and distribution of their products. 2005-06 25.6 The BAT agreement sets out the steps that the company Departmental Motor Vehicles are required to take in order to control the supply chain for their products. It also requires them to make Pete Wishart: To ask the Chancellor of the supplemental payments to member states if their product Exchequer what the annual expenditure on vehicles of is found smuggled to have been smuggled in significant (a) his Department and (b) each (i) non-departmental volumes. Seizures made in the UK which qualify are public body and (ii) executive agency for which his notified to the European Commission by HMRC for Department is responsible in each region of England this purpose. was in each of the last three financial years; and what These agreements are an important step forward in the planned expenditure is in each case for 2010-11. the fight against tobacco smuggling. Signing them sends [12451] a clear and consistent signal that we are working in step with the EU, other member states and tobacco Justine Greening: No vehicles have been purchased in manufacturers to tackle the illicit trade in tobacco the past three years by the Treasury or any of its products. agencies or non-departmental bodies. There are no plans for spending on vehicles in 2010-11. Housing Benefit

Departmental Postal Services Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer Brandon Lewis: To ask the Chancellor of the of using the consumer price index rather than the retail Exchequer what steps his Department has taken to price index for calculation of local housing allowance identify those of its services that could be provided for two years only from 2013-14. [23102] through the Post Office network. [25025] Mr Gauke [holding answer 9 November 2010]: The Justine Greening: The Department for Business, June 2010 Budget announced that the consumer prices Innovation and Skills has lead responsibility for the index will be used to uprate local housing allowance Post Office and takes a proactive approach alongside rates from 2013-14. This replaces the existing system Post Office Ltd in seeking commercial opportunities where rent officers determine the LHA rates on a monthly with Government Departments. As part of the spending basis using a list of rents created for each category of review HM Treasury published proposals emerging from property within every broad rental market area (BRMA). 273W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 274W

Our policy is designed to ensure that increases in Mr Gauke [holding answer 19 October 2010]: In line housing benefit are more in line with the rent increases with the pay award agreed with HM Treasury and the that would be affordable to families who do not claim departmental trade unions, HMRC made performance benefits. award payments to staff in June 2010 relating to CPI indexation of LHA rates has been estimated to performance in the appraisal year 2009-10. HMRC also save £390 million per annum by 2014-15 relative to the makes in-year payments under its recognition bonus current system. No separate estimate has been made of scheme. the cost of uprating LHA rates by CPI compared to HMRC expects the amounts paid out and the number using the retail prices index (RPI) as the measure of of staff in receipt of these awards in 2010-11 to be of inflation because it is not Government policy to uprate similar magnitude to 2009-10. These bonuses are dependent LHA rates by RPI. on staff performance. HMRC does not hold any bonus data by role. Housing: Floods Priti Patel: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much HM Revenue and Customs spent on (a) Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) hospitality, (b) entertainment, (c) promotional what estimate he has made of the revenue which will materials, (d) sponsorships and (e) advertising in each accrue to the Exchequer as a result of the proposed media outlet in each of the last three years. [18267] levy on home owners in areas of significant risk of flood in each of the next four financial years; and if he Mr Gauke [holding answer 19 October 2010]: The will make a statement; [25245] spend by HM Revenue and Customs is provided as (2) what plans he has for a levy on homeowners in follows. All figures exclude VAT. areas of significant risk of flood; and if he will make a £ statement. [25246] 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Justine Greening: HM Treasury has no plans to introduce Hospitality/ a levy on home owners in areas at risk of flooding and entertainment1 therefore has no estimates of the revenue that would Total 97,396.66 93,209 88,994 accrue to the Exchequer from such a levy. Sponsorship Import Duties: Agriculture Total 0 0 542,034

Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Advertising by each what assessment he has made of the effects on media outlet2 economic growth in the UK of a reduction in Press 2,075,124 3,453,236 2,942,746 agricultural tariffs as a result of the World Trade TV 1,603,361 3,333,820 1,339,945 Organisation’s Doha round negotiations. [25247] Radio 4,106,193 3,970,579 3,062,948 Posters 822,671 1,585,823 656,710 Mr Davey: I have been asked to reply. Online 1,457,8691 1,430,810 1,180,706 1 The majority of spend on hospitality and entertainment relates to the The agricultural element of the Doha Development provision of beverages at meetings and for visitors. We have provided the total Agenda cannot be seen in isolation of the other areas spend for hospitality and entertainment for each of the last three years. 2 Figures do not include production, miscellaneous or Central Office for under negotiation in the Doha round. A Doha deal Information fee costs. would include new agricultural and industrial market The total spend on promotional materials is not access, increased transparency and security in services, available. No central record is held and it cannot be and an improvement of the global trade rule book. It disaggregated from other spend, except at disproportionate would increase UK prosperity, give the global economy cost. a boost, and lift millions of people around the world out of poverty. To UK businesses in agriculture, like in Individual Savings Accounts other sectors, it would offer new export opportunities, provide cheaper inputs, reduce non-tariff barriers, and Jake Berry: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer simplify bureaucratic trade procedures making it easier whether he plans to bring forward proposals to allow to do business around the world. To consumers, it alternative investment market shares to be held in would provide lower prices (especially of food), greater individual savings accounts. [25261] variety of products, and increased competition in the Mr Hoban: ISAs are the Government’s main non- supply of goods and services. Globally, the benefits are pensions savings incentive, and are held by 20 million estimated at £110 billion annually, with the UK gaining adults. The Government believe that ISAs are a trusted in the range of £3 billion every year in additional brand, and that it is important that this is maintained. national income. The Government also believe that ISAs should be mainstream savings products. The Government therefore Incentives do not intend to allow shares listed on the Alternative Investment Market (AIM)—which can be riskier and Priti Patel: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer less liquid—to be qualifying investments for ISAs. It is how much HM Revenue and Customs plans to pay in already the case that companies listed on AIM may staff bonuses and other awards in addition to salary in benefit from other incentive schemes, such as investments 2010-11; and to how many staff in each role it expects made through the Enterprise Investment Scheme and to make such payment. [18266] Venture Capital Trusts. 275W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 276W

Members: Correspondence Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many people residing in (a) Streatham Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Chancellor of the constituency, (b) the London borough of Lambeth Exchequer when he intends to answer the letter sent to and (c) London have (i) overpaid and (ii) underpaid him by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton tax as a result of miscalculations of tax liabilities in the on 6 October with regard to MsPJDavis. [25880] PAYE system as identified in the most recent PAYE reconciliation process. [15685] Mr Hoban: I have replied to the right hon. Member. Mr Gauke: The information requested is available Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Chancellor of the only at disproportionate cost, as HMRC’s national Exchequer when he intends to answer the letter sent to insurance and PAYE system does not hold data in him by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton relation to parliamentary constituencies, boroughs or on 16 August with regard to Mr A Ramsden. [25881] regions.

Mr Hoban: I replied to the right hon. Member on Personal Income 13 October. Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Monetary Policy Exchequer how many people over 50 years of age resident in (a) Newcastle Upon Tyne North Steve Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer constituency, (b) the North East and (c) England he what recent assessment he has made of the effects of expects to experience a reduction in annual income as a (a) quantitative easing and (b) credit expansion in result of the comprehensive spending review. [24471] excess of real savings on the structure of (i) relative prices and (ii) macroeconomic aggregates. [25296] Mr Gauke: The effect of spending review at an individual level will be determined by how a household allocates Mr Hoban: The independent Monetary Policy its resources. As different households allocate their Committee (MPC) of the Bank of England has operational resources in different ways and as data on allocation is responsibility for monetary policy. The MPC decides not available, any analysis using arbitrary assumptions on use of measures, including the asset purchase facility would not be robust. As such it is not possible to (APF), in order to target 2% inflation, as measured by provide this information. However, detail at a household the 12-month change in the consumer prices index level of the impacts of spending review and the fiscal (CPI). consolidation as a whole are presented in Annex B of Assessments of quantitative easing can be found in the Spending Review. the Bank of England quarterly inflation reports. In particular, the May 2009 inflation report explains how Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the quantitative easing works to impact the economy through Exchequer (1) how many working households in (a) various channels including higher money supply, lower Newcastle Upon Tyne North constituency, (b) the long-term interest rates and rising asset prices. An North East and (c) England he expects to experience a assessment of the impact on asset prices, in particular reduction in annual income as a result of the on the gilt market, is made in the May 2010 inflation comprehensive spending review; [24473] report which says: (2) how many single parent families resident in (a) “asset purchases appear to be having a sizeable downward Newcastle Upon Tyne North constituency, (b) the effect on gilt yields...equity and corporate bond prices have increased North East and (c) England he expects to experience a significantly since early 2009. That is likely, in part, to reflect the reduction in annual income as a result of the exceptional monetary stimulus”. comprehensive spending review. [24474] The Government have announced the interim Financial Policy Committee (FPC) at the Bank of England will be Mr Gauke: At the June Budget and spending review, created this autumn. It will be responsible for looking at this Government have taken the unprecedented step of risks across the financial system as a whole and how publishing detailed distributional analysis of the impacts financial markets interact with the wider economy. The of its decisions for the first time—see for example Bank of England half-yearly financial stability reports charts B.4 and B.5 in Annex B of the spending review. will continue to capture such analysis. This analysis shows that, when Budget and spending review measures are taken together, it is the top decile PAYE that contributes most to the fiscal consolidation, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of net income. Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Further detail of the methodology used to produce Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of these estimates is provided in the Data Sources document individuals in each parliamentary constituency who accompanying the Spending Review. have (a) underpaid and (b) overpaid tax as a result of recent miscalculations of tax liability made by HM Public Expenditure Revenue and Customs in the PAYE system. [15456] Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the what estimate he has made of the likely effects of Exchequer how many people in Coventry South changes announced in the (a) June 2010 Budget and constituency HM Revenue and Customs has asked to (b) the 2010 spending review on the incomes of (i) make additional PAYE tax payments as a result of the families with children, (ii) pensioners, (iii) couples recent recalculation of PAYE liabilities; and what the without children and (iv) single person households. average repayment requested is. [15749] [21760] 277W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 278W

Mr Gauke: At the June Budget and spending review, Revenue and Customs: Expenditure this Government have taken the unprecedented step of publishing detailed distributional analysis of the impacts Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the of their decision for the first time—see for instance Exchequer how much HM Revenue and Customs spent charts B.4, B.5 and B.6 in annex B of the ‘Spending on compliance activities in (a) 2008-09 and (b) Review 2010’ document. This analysis shows that, when 2009-10; and how much it plans to spend on such Budget and spending review measures are taken together, activities in 2010-11. [23866] it is clear that the top decile contributes the most to the fiscal consolidation, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of net income. Mr Gauke [holding answer 16 November 2010]: It is not possible to estimate the total spent on compliance The Government have taken action in the June Budget activities. However, HMRC total pay bill costs for the and this spending review to help low-income families. main directorates involved in compliance activity are: For example, increasing the child element of tax credits by £180 next year and a further £110 the year after. £ million These steps have ensured that there is no measurable impact on child poverty from all modelled measures to 2008-09 1,128 2012-13. 2009-10 1,079 Estimates of the impact of June 2010 Budget and 2010-11 forecast 1,046 2010 spending review on net household income by household type for 2012-13 can be found in the following The Government also announced that £900 million table. The methodology used to produce these estimates will be made available over the spending review period, is consistent with the one used in charts B.4 and B.5 in to enable HMRC to step up its activity in tackling annex B of the ‘Spending Review 2010’ document (see evasion, avoidance and fraud to bring in £7 billion ‘Spending Review 2010 Distributional Impact Analysis— additional revenue year by 2014-15. Reducing tax loss, Data Sources’ document for further detail). whether it stems from misunderstanding or deliberate evasion, is a key priority for this Government and Impact of measures as a per cent of net income by household type, HMRC are determined to relentlessly pursue those who 2012-13 bend or break the rules. Percentage Household type Budget1 Spending review Revenue and Customs: Finance Single -0.62 -0.03 Couple without -0.52 -0.02 children Owen Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer for what reasons HM Revenue and Customs is to Couple with -1.30 -0.32 children receive additional funding as a result of the One-parent families -0.96 0.27 comprehensive spending review. [25346] Pensioners -0.52 -0.23 1 Including impact of indirect measures Mr Gauke: HMRC is not receiving additional funding Source: as a result of the spending review settlement. They are HM Treasury tax and benefit micro-simulation model making savings of 25% (including a 33% saving in administration spending) and then reinvesting £900 million Revenue and Customs: Databases in tackling non-compliance in the tax system in order to bring in an additional £7 billion in tax revenues by Mr Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2014-15. if he will assess the potential effects of combining the child benefit and child tax credit systems on (a) Owen Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer administrative costs and (b) levels of administrative what effects he expects the outcomes of the error. [23662] comprehensive spending review to have on his Department’s funding for HM Revenue and Customs Mr Gauke: The Government consider a range of in each year of the spending review period. [25347] options when formulating policy. The Chancellor announced that child benefit will be withdrawn from Mr Gauke: The outcome of the spending review is families containing a higher rate taxpayer from January that HMRC will be required to make savings of 25% in 2013. This can be delivered within existing PAYE and real terms on a straight line basis over the next four self-assessment systems, avoiding the need for new systems years and that they will re-invest £900 million to tackle to be developed. non-compliance in the tax system. The overall net effect is a real terms reduction of Revenue and Customs: Dismissal about 15%. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Chancellor of the Revenue and Customs: Telephone Services Exchequer how many (a) part-time and (b) full-time employees of each (i) grade, (ii) sex and (iii) ethnicity HM Revenue and Customs has dismissed in each of Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the last five years. [21958] (1) what the average waiting time was for a caller to the tax credit helpline whose call was permitted to be put Mr Gauke: The information requested has been deposited on hold in each week in (a) July and (b) August 2010; in the Library of the House. [24592] 279W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 280W

(2) how many calls were (a) received, (b) answered Mr Gauke: The information requested is in the following and (c) abandoned or cut off by the tax credit helpline table: in each week in (i) July and (ii) August 2010. [24593]

Calls attempts Average waiting Week commencing:1 Callers2 received3 Calls answered4 Calls abandoned5 Calls cut off6 time (mm:ss)7

27 June 2010 630,515 1,195,474 634,643 151,083 398,057 03:46 4 July 2010 699,874 1,416,804 693,483 141,485 539,197 04:28 11 July 2010 685,908 1.339.25& 683,885 127,912 550,900 04:20 18 July 2010 756,705 1,596,414 701,884 150,553 742,420 05:23 25 July 2010 1,323,210 6,125,931 1,061,920 292,099 3,055,710 10:47 1 August 2010 761,693 2,372,392 500,639 210,788 1,636,025 08:44 8 August 2010 589,156 1,695,307 430,156 213,580 1,040,832 09:08 15 August 2010 922,408 4,127,496 545,290 125,217 3,435,226 09:39 22 August 2010 938,167 3,578,722 555,291 159,401 2,829,593 09:55 29 August 2010 729,110 2,579,750 443,763 115,498 1,998,847 08:36 1 Week commencing—Calculated within HMRC business results from Sunday to Saturday. 2 Callers—The number of individual callers telephoning on each individual day. 3 Call attempts received—The number of attempts (including redials) made to the tax credit helpline. 4 Calls answered—The number of calls handled by advisers and by automated message. 5 Calls abandoned—The number of calls abandoned after a customer has selected an option from the call steering menu. 6 Calls cut off—The number of calls unable to enter call steering menu/queue as the queue is full and a busy message is played. 7 Average speed to answer—The time taken from when a customer selects an option from the call steering menu to when the call is connected to an adviser.

Customer demand on HMRC’s telephone helplines Performance on the tax credit helpline has significantly fluctuates significantly during the year, with demand improved in recent weeks. peaks around key tax year deadlines. There are significant peaks in demand on the tax credits helpline in July for renewals and in August as customers who have had Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer their payments terminated call to re-instate their awards. (1) how many calls were (a) received, (b) answered Performance therefore tends to be lower in this period and (c) abandoned or cut off by the child benefit than at other times of the year although HMRC switches helpline in each week in (i) July and (ii) August 2010; advisers between helplines to manage this peak. [24594] During peak periods, callers who cannot get through (2) what the average waiting time was for a caller to on their first attempt often use the redial facility on the child benefit helpline whose call was permitted to their telephone to make numerous successive calls which be put on hold in each week in (a) July and (b) August rapidly increases the number and proportion of unanswered 2010. [24591] calls. In addition, a combination of factors including increases in the number of renewals packs and termination notices issued has significantly increased demand on Mr Gauke: The information requested is in the following the tax credits helpline this year. table:

Calls attempts Average waiting time Week commencing:1 Callers2 received3 Calls answered4 Calls abandoned5 Calls cut off6 (mm:ss)7

27 June 2010 94,815 151,581 84,987 26,287 39,684 04:54 4 July 2010 109,924 215,593 88,653 25,902 100,530 05:34 11 July 2010 102,474 184,675 88,532 23,943 71,682 05:19 18 July 2010 96,877 145,942 86,333 24,708 33,883 05:09 25 July 2010 104,407 179,211 85,310 24,058 64,897 05:39 1 August 2010 102,567 174,596 82,330 25,870 63,244 05:39 8 August 2010 93,851 131,184 87,753 21,495 19,360 04:30 15 August 2010 102,708 151,793 90,221 25,062 28,986 04:55 22 August 2010 112,434 158,252 104,726 27,032 21,658 04:52 29 August 2010 122,802 294,867 85,353 26,153 181,913 06:51 1 Week commencing—Calculated within HMRC business results from Sunday to Saturday. 2 Callers—The number of individual callers who telephoned on each individual day. 3 Call attempts received—The number of attempts (including redials) made to the child benefit helpline. 4 Calls answered—The number of calls handled by advisers and by automated message. 5 Calls abandoned—The number of calls abandoned after a customer has selected an option from the call steering menu. 6 Calls cut off—The number of calls unable to enter call steering menu/queue as the queue is full and a busy message is played. 7 Average speed to answer—The time taken from when a customer selects an option from the call steering menu to when the call is connected to an adviser.

Customer demand on HMRC’s telephone helplines and HMRC switches advisers between helplines to fluctuates significantly during the year, with demand help manage this peak. Performance across all of peaks around key tax year deadlines. There is a HMRC’s helplines, including child benefit, therefore particular peak in demand in July and August tends to be lower in this period than at other times of connected with tax credits renewals and terminations the year. 281W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 282W

Performance on the child benefit helpline has significantly Mr Hoban: Total pensions tax relief for 2001-02 was improved in recent weeks. around £17 billion (gross) rising to over £28 billion in 2009-10. No estimates or forecasts are published beyond Mr Chope: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer this date. pursuant to the answer of 9 November 2010, Official HM Revenue and Customs publish pensions tax relief Report, columns 287-8W, on Revenue and Customs: statistics which are available from the HMRC’s website Christchurch, if he will provide a telephone number for at: the inquiry centre at Holland House, Bournemouth so http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/pensions/table7-9.pdf that customers can arrange appointments for advice on their tax affairs by telephone. [24693] Tax Avoidance Mr Gauke [holding answer 17 November 2010]: The helpline number for the Bournemouth area, including Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Chancellor of the Christchurch, is 0845 300 0627 and customers can make Exchequer what funding his Department has allocated appointments at the inquiry centre using this number. to reducing the level of tax avoidance by higher rate HMRC’s helpline numbers are available on their website taxpayers in each financial year since 1997. [20890] at: www.hmrc.gov.uk Mr Gauke: Neither HMRC nor its preceding or in telephone directories. To help resolve their inquiries departments have allocated funding in accordance with as efficiently as possible, customers should call the the criteria set out in the question. helpline number that is most relevant to their query. This Government are committed to tackling avoidance and intend to build in sustainable defences against Tax Allowances avoidance opportunities when undertaking policy reform and to review areas of the tax system in which repeated changes have been necessary to close loopholes. As part Thomas Docherty: To ask the Chancellor of the of the HMRC spending review settlement we announced Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the that £900 million will be made available over the spending value for money of tax reliefs other than those relating review period to enable HMRC to step up its activity in to pension savings. [25831] tackling evasion, avoidance and fraud. We are also considering whether there is a case for developing a Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs publishes a general anti avoidance rule (GAAR) for the UK. Alongside list showing the annual cost of the principal tax expenditures this we will continue to use intelligence obtained from and structural reliefs on its website at: the disclosure of tax avoidance schemes regime and http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_expenditures/table1-5.pdf other sources to detect avoidance schemes early and we The Office of Tax Simplification has been asked to will challenge avoidance robustly where we find it. carry out a review of all tax reliefs by Budget 2011, identifying changes that can be made to simplify the tax Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the system. Exchequer what discussions he has had with HM On 8 November 2010 the Office of Tax Simplification Revenue and Customs on its proposals for an published a list of all tax reliefs and its proposed alternative dispute resolution system; and what his approach to the review. The Government will carefully policy is on encouraging the resolution of disputes on consider the recommendations from the review in due tax avoidance out of court. [24420] course. Mr Gauke: The vast majority of tax disputes are Tax Allowances: Breweries resolved by agreement between HMRC and the taxpayer, rather than through the courts, as the most cost effective way of ensuring that tax due under the law is established Dr Poulter: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer and paid. HMRC is currently exploring whether use of whether he has made an assessment of the merits of a third party mediator would facilitate such agreements placing time limits on the tax relief offered to in certain cases. HMRC’s approach for bringing tax micro-breweries. [25081] disputes to a conclusion, whether by agreement with the taxpayer, or through the courts, is set out in its published Justine Greening: The Treasury keeps all tax reliefs Litigation and Settlement Strategy. This applies to all under review. Small breweries relief provides duty relief cases where criminal prosecution is not being pursued. to micro and small breweries producing up to 60,000 HMRC’s approach under this Strategy is always to seek hectolitres per annum. Decisions about tax policy are a agreed terms for settlement before going to litigation. In matter for the Chancellor as part of the Budget process. avoidance cases where HMRC has a strong case, it will not settle for less than 100% of the tax due. Tax Allowances: Pensions Tax Avoidance and Evasion Thomas Docherty: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what his most recent estimate is of the likely Owen Smith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer monetary value of tax subsidies in respect of pension whether he plans to establish new units within his savings in (a) 2001, (b) 2012, (c) 2013, (d) 2014 and Department to tackle tax avoidance and evasion. (e) 2015. [25830] [25387] 283W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 284W

Mr Gauke: The Government confirmed their These figures constitute net VAT declared by the financial commitment to reducing tax losses from avoidance and services sector accrued on non-exempt activity within evasion when it announced £900 million would be made that sector. Archived factsheets provide figures for earlier available over the spending review period to reduce years avoidance, evasion and fraud. https://www.uktradeinfo.com/ The spending review proposed a new team to crack index.cfm?task=factarchive&factcategory=8 down on offshore evasion and more resources for the Given that sectors for corporation tax and VAT and prevention of tobacco and alcohol fraud. It will also PAYE income tax and class 1 NICs are defined differently provide resources to tackle high risk areas, including these sets of figures are not directly comparable. extending the provision of dedicated tax experts to deal HMRC collected £3.45 billion of gross receipts in with large businesses. Business plans are being prepared 2009-10 from the temporary bank payroll tax on bonuses for spring publication. greater than £25,000. This tax included both UK and non-UK owned banks. It is estimated that the net yield Taxation: Banks was £2.3 billion. In line with the general methodology set out in June Budget policy costings document, the Mr Meacher: To ask the Chancellor of the net yield takes account of all direct behavioural effects Exchequer how much revenue the Exchequer has of a measure on the tax base itself (in this case the tax received from UK banks through each taxation stream base for the bank payroll tax) or closely associated since 1983. [23258] receipts (in this case receipts from income tax and national insurance contributions). Mr Hoban [holding answer 11 November 2010]: The specific data requested are not available. Taxation: Business Corporation tax, PAYE income tax and class 1 NICs, VAT and BPT will account for a large part of total tax Mr Meacher: To ask the Chancellor of the paid by banks. Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 25 October, HMRC produce a breakdown by broad industrial Official Report, column 144W, on BP: tax allowances, sector for corporation tax and PAYE income tax and for what reasons it is inappropriate for Government to class 1 national insurance contributions (NICs) and comment on the tax affairs of individual businesses. value added tax (VAT). These breakdowns include the [24195] financial services sector rather than banks specifically. Receipts from UK banks will make up part of the Mr Gauke [holding answer 15 November 2010]: The financial services sector. tax information of individual businesses held by Her Historical figures for corporation tax receipts paid by Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is subject through several broadly-defined business sectors are regularly legislation to a strict duty of confidentiality and therefore updated and published in table 11.1, on the HMRC the tax position of individual businesses cannot be National Statistics website. These include financial services disclosed by HMRC to any third parties including excluding life assurance receipts. Data are available Government Ministers. back to 1997-98 only. The sectors are defined by HMRC’s summary trade classifications. The latest update is available Mr David Davis: To ask the Chancellor of the here: Exchequer how many companies have had outstanding tax liability of more than £100 million forgiven by HM http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/table11_1.pdf Revenue and Customs (HMRC) in each of the last five PAYE income tax and class 1 NICs received by years; and what the monetary value was of the liability HMRC from companies in the financial sector in respect forgiven by HMRC in each such year. [24531] of employee and employer liabilities are: Mr Gauke [holding answer 16 November 2010]: The Financial sector receipts £ billion information requested is not readily available and could 1999-2000 12.3 be provided only at disproportionate cost. 2000-01 15.5 Summary details of Revenue losses (write-offs and 2001-02 15.6 remissions) where in individual cases the amount exceeds 2002-03 15.5 £10 million—including those where the individual loss 2003-04 17.1 exceeded £100 million—are set out each year in HMRC’s 2004-05 18.9 published consolidated accounts as is the total figure 2005-06 21.2 for all losses in each year. The accounts are laid before 2006-07 24.5 the House annually and are also available on the HMRC 2007-08 263 website : 2008-09 22.9 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/about/reports.htm 2009-10 24.5 Taxation: Construction Data are available back to 1999-2000 only. The sectors are defined by the Office for National Statistics’ standard Tony Lloyd: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer industrial classification 2003. what information HM Revenue and Customs holds on Declared VAT is published by trade group in the VAT the number of small businesses which have had their factsheet, table 2.3 C1S6 Gross Status Certificate withdrawn in each of the https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=factvat last three calendar years. [18558] 285W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 286W

Mr Gauke [holding answer 21 October 2010]: It is not household. At the June Budget and the spending review, possible to analyse with any degree of accuracy those this Government have taken the unprecedented step of subcontractors whose gross payment status has been publishing detailed distributional analysis of the impacts was withdrawn by reference to the size of their business. of their decisions for the first time. This analysis shows that through providing extra support through the child Taxation: Land tax credit, there is no measurable impact from modelled Budget and spending review measures on child poverty Mr Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer over the next two years. if he will make it his policy to commission research on Furthermore, in chart B.6 (p100) in annex B of the the merits of introducing a land value levy. [25144] ‘Spending Review 2010’ document the Government have made efforts to bring together tax, welfare and departmental Mr Gauke: Land value tax has been the subject of expenditure limit changes together for the first time. considerable previous research, for example see: This shows that the top 20% contribute most to the http://www.lyonsinquiry.org.uk fiscal consolidation as a percentage of net income and There are no plans to commission further research, but benefits-in-kind. the Government keeps all taxes under review. Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer VAT: Sixth Form Education how many tax credit claimants were sent letters inviting them to renew their tax credits through the specialist Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the assisted renewals teams; and how many such claimants Exchequer for what reasons (a) sixth form colleges, took up that offer. [24395] (b) schools with sixth forms and (c) academies are not Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs sent letters to liable to pay value added tax; and whether he plans to around 400,000 households this year, inviting claimants review such tax arrangements to take account of the with high value tax credits awards to call to complete implementation of the proposed change in the status of the annual declaration and renewal process. Around sixth form colleges as part of a review of value added 341,100 calls were received between 12 April and 31 October tax liabilities. [25214] by the specialist renewals teams. Included in that total are a proportion of repeat or follow up calls from Mr Gauke: Education funded by local or central customers who had cause to call more than once. It is Government are not a business activity, so would not be not possible to identify the breakdown of the various subject to VAT if it was charged for. However, schools categories of calls received by the team. and sixth form colleges, in common with everyone else, are liable to pay VAT on the taxable goods and services Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer they purchase. The Chancellor has no plans to review (1) how many tax credit claimants had the disability this. element of that credit removed from their (a) 2009-10 Those institutions are currently funded for these costs and (b) 2011-12 award after making contact with the either through up-front central Government funding or, assisted renewals helpline; [24396] if they are local authority controlled schools, through a (2) how many tax credit claimants whose 2009-10 mechanism in section 33 of the VAT Act 1994. award was higher than £8,500 including a disability element, had the disability element of that credit Working Tax Credit removed in respect of (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2009-10 and (d) 2010-11; [24397] Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (3) how many people lost all entitlement to working what estimate he has made of the number of tax credit following the removal of their entitlement to individuals in households in which at least one member the disability element of that credit during the renewals works for 16 hours per week who (a) will have their period of 2010. [24398] income reduced and (b) will fall below the equivalised poverty threshold of 60 per cent. of median household Mr Gauke: The specific information requested is not income as a result of (i) changing the eligibility rules recorded separately. for working tax credits on hours worked per week to 24 with one partner working at least 16 hours per week, (ii) reducing to 70 per cent. the percentage of childcare JUSTICE costs that parents can claim through the childcare Prison Population element of working tax credit, (iii) freezing the basic and 30-hour elements of the working tax credit for 19. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State three years from 2011-12 and (iv) adopting the for Justice how many fewer offenders he estimates will Consumer Price Index for the indexation of tax credits; be sent to prison in each year in order to meet his and what estimate he has made of the average amount Department’s target of reducing the prison population by which the income of affected households will by 3,000 by 2014. [25578] change as a result of these measures. [21759] Mr Blunt: Specific proposals on reforms to sentencing Mr Gauke: The Treasury does not hold the specific and rehabilitation will be set out in the forthcoming numbers associated with this request, and to undertake Sentencing and Rehabilitation Green Paper. As a the analysis required to produce these would exceed the consequence the Government expects that the prison disproportionate cost threshold. Given the interaction population will be 3,000 lower than the current level by of tax credit measures with other benefits, it is the March 2015. Without these proposals we currently expect overall impact of measures that is important for a the prison population will exceed 88,000 in 2015. 287W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 288W

Safe Prison Cells Courts Service: Dorset

20. Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many of the additional prison cells Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for provided in the last five years met the criteria for safe Justice how much funding was allocated to the Courts Service in Dorset in 2009-10; and how much funding cell classification. [25579] will be allocated in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12. Mr Blunt: About 6,200 safer cells have been provided [25650] since 2005. Mr Djanogly: Courts funding is not allocated along Prisoner Voting Rights (Costs) county boundaries. Local budgets have been analysed to provide an estimate of the budget within the county 21. Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State boundaries. This has been done by collating court budgets, for Justice what recent estimate he has made of the and apportioning regional and national budgets which likely cost to his Department of making arrangements can be attributed directly to local courts. in prisons for prisoners to cast their vote in an election. The funding allocated to the Court Service in Dorset [25580] for 2009-10 was £10.8 million. Mr Kenneth Clarke: As the Minister for Political and The funding allocated to the Court Service in Dorset Constitutional Reform, my hon. Friend the Member for 2010-11 was £10.0 million. for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) made clear in the The total funding for Her Majesty’s Court Service House on 2 November 2010, Official Report, column nationally has not yet been finalised for 2011-12. It is 771, Ministers are considering how to implement the anticipated that the allocation to court level will be judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, finalised by end February 2011. and when decisions have been taken they will be announced to the House in the usual way. Departmental Press: Subscriptions Sentencing Policy

22. Mr Spencer: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Justice when he expects to publish his proposals on the how much (a) his Department and (b) the non- future of sentencing policy. [25581] departmental public bodies for which he is responsible spent on press cuttings services in each of the last Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for 12 months. [25485] Justice when he expects to publish his proposals on the future of sentencing policy. [25563] Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice, Tribunals Mr Kenneth Clarke: We intend to publish the Green Service, Office of the Public Guardian, Legal Services Paper setting out proposals on sentencing and rehabilitation Commission, YouthJustice Board, Criminal Cases Review in December. Commission, Information Commissioner’s Office, Office for Legal Complaints, Land Registry and National Prison Service Archive spent the following on press cutting services in the last 12 months:

23. David Rutley: To ask the Secretary of State for £ Justice what steps he is taking to make the Prison Service more efficient. [25583] 2009 November 17,608.54 Mr Blunt: We will set challenging efficiency targets December 39,008.03 for prison governors, requiring them to make savings while maintaining safe, legal and decent establishments. 2010 We will support them by a number of central initiatives, including reducing central prescription, benchmarking January 14,590.34 costs between establishments and developing proposals February 23,685.15 for a competition strategy for all offender services. March 25,511.74 April 16,005.44 Heroin Addiction May 17,949.42 June 10,768.27 24. Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for July 27,371.17 Justice how many of those serving a prison sentence August 11,691.21 have been treated for heroin addiction. [25584] September 1,070.09 October 13,805.10 Nick Herbert: Of those adults remanded or sentenced in 2009-10, 60,067 had clinical interventions for the These figures do not include data for the Probation management of heroin dependence, and 4,933 heroin Trusts. These data are not held centrally and it would users entered accredited drug treatment programmes in incur disproportionate costs to investigate the costs custody in the same period. incurred, if any, for the Probation Trusts. 289W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 290W

Additionally we can provide the following supporting October figures for the Land Registry and the Information data: Commissioner’s Office are unavailable as they have not yet received invoices for that month. The Parole Board; the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority; The Office for Legal Complaints has only used a press cutting the Judicial Appointments Commission; the Legal Services Board service the last six weeks. The year long subscription they paid for and the Office of the Legal Services Ombudsmen do not use a in September has been pro rated to give the proportion of the cost press cutting service. that can be attributed to the last 12 months. The Criminal Cases Review Commission and Tribunals Service Secure Training Centres: Restraint Techniques are invoiced annually rather than monthly in February and October respectively. Karl Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The National Archive changed suppliers in July 2010 from how many minor injuries were sustained during the use Adfero to Precise because the service was of a higher quality, of restraint procedures on (a) boys and (b) girls in more accurate and offered better value for money. each secure training centre in each month since April 2008. [25382] The LSC’s contract with the press cutting agency Durrants will terminate on 21 November. The LSC’s £10,000 licence with the Mr Blunt: The following table shows the number of Newspaper Licensing Agency expired on 19 October. Cancelling minor injuries sustained during the use of restraint these contracts will save approximately £26,000 in 2010-11 and procedures in each month in 2008-09 in secure training £60,000 annually. The LSC will now use the Ministry of Justice’s centres (STCs). Data for injuries are not available by media monitoring. To supplement this, the LSC’s press office has, since 30 September 2010, been trialling a subscription to The gender. It is a contractual requirement for any young Times and Sunday Times website at a cost of £1.00 for the first person within a STC who has been restrained to be month and £8.66 for the second month. A decision on whether to visited by a registered nurse within 30 minutes following continue this subscription will be made before Christmas 2010. the use of restraint.

Minor injuries 2008 2009 Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar

Hassockfield — 2 — — 2 3 3 — — — 4 3 Medway523113443147 Oakhill — — —————————— Rainsbrook11———2—11113 Notes: 1. The 2009-10 figures will be available once the 2009-10 Youth Justice Board annual workload data are released. Hence only figures for 2008-09 are given. 2. These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing and may be subject to change over time.

I have requested that the disparity in the figures predecessor to the Sentencing Council, published a provided above should be investigated and I will write sentencing guideline specifically for the sentencing of in due course with any findings. under-18s for the first time. This guideline states that custodial sentences should only be imposed as a measure Sentencing of last resort. As this guideline is new there are no immediate plans to revise it, but the guideline will be Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State subject to review if legislation is changed. for Justice whether he plans to make changes to sentencing guidelines to reduce the number of adults sent to prison; and if he will make a statement. [25747] INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Mr Blunt: The responsibility for issuing sentencing STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE guidelines rests not with the Government but with the Human Resources independent Sentencing Council. The Government submit their views on draft guidelines but do not have any say Bob Russell: To ask the hon. Member for in their final content. Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for We are conducting an assessment of sentencing policy the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, if and will shortly publish a consultation paper with proposals the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority for reform. will establish a human resources department to deal with staff of hon. Members; and if he will make a Sentencing: Young Offenders statement. [25172]

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Charles Walker: The Independent Parliamentary for Justice whether he plans to make changes to Standards Authority has no plans to establish a human sentencing guidelines to reduce the number of young resources department for MPs’ staff. offenders sent to prison; and if he will make a statement. [25748] Members: Allowances

Mr Blunt: Sentencing guidelines are produced for the John Mann: To ask the hon. Member for judiciary by the independent Sentencing Council. On Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for 20 November 2009 the Sentencing Guidelines Council, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, 291W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2010 Written Answers 292W what the policy of the Independent Parliamentary Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls Standards Authority is on responsibility for the within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary reimbursement of travel expenses of candidates who Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. have attended interviews for jobs with hon. Members. Letter from Andrew McDonald: [26016] As Interim Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking about IPSA’s policy on reimbursement of travel Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls expenses for interview candidates (26071). within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Reimbursement for travel expenses for interview candidates, Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. while still prevalent in some industries, is no longer standard Letter from Andrew McDonald: practice in either the public or private sectors. As Interim Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary John Mann: To ask the hon. Member for Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for Questions asking about IPSA’s policy on reimbursement of travel expenses for interview candidates (26016). the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, what the policy of the Independent Parliamentary Travel expenses for interview candidates are not a reimbursable Standards Authority is on the reimbursement of travel expense under the MPs’ Expenses Scheme. expenses of those called for interviews for jobs with the Support for travel expenses may be available from Job Centre Authority. [26072] Plus for certain candidates. Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary John Mann: To ask the hon. Member for Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for Letter from Andrew McDonald: the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, As Interim Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary what comparators the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Standards Authority took into account in determining Questions asking about IPSA’s policy on reimbursement of travel its policy on payment for reimbursement of travel expenses for interview candidates (26072). expenses for persons travelling to job interviews with IPSA does not pay travel expenses for candidates attending hon. Members. [26071] interviews for its own vacancies. 1MC Ministerial Corrections23 NOVEMBER 2010 Ministerial Corrections 2MC

Members know, the CMP has so far found just under Ministerial Correction 700 sets of human remains, both Greek and Turkish Cypriot. Tuesday 23 November 2010 [Official Report, 16 November 2010, Vol. 518, c. 232WH.]

Letter of correction from Mr David Lidington: FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE An error has been identified in the 10th sentence Cyprus of the fourth paragraph of the closing speech of 16 November 2010. The following is an extract from a closing speech given during the Westminster Hall debate on resolution The correct sentence should have been: of the situation in Cyprus by the Minister for Europe, the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) on Mr Lidington: We have given particular support to 16 November 2010. the work of the United Nations Committee on Missing Persons and we donate to its annual budget. As hon. Mr Lidington: We have given particular support to Members know, the CMP has so far found just under the work of the European Union’s Committee on Missing 700 sets of human remains, both Greek and Turkish Persons and we donate to its annual budget. As hon. Cypriot.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 23 November 2010

Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE...... 147 JUSTICE—continued Administration of Justice...... 148 National Offender Management Service ...... 149 Imprisonment for Public Protection...... 147 Offenders (Alcohol Dependency)...... 158 Legal Aid ...... 157 Prison Places...... 154 Legal Aid (Clinical Negligence Cases)...... 160 Prisoners (Voting Rights)...... 152 Legal Aid (Family Law) ...... 161 Sentencing Policy ...... 150 Legal Aid (Immigration Appeals) ...... 155 Sentencing Policy ...... 159 Miscarriages of Justice...... 156 Topical Questions ...... 161 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 23 November 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 7WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 26WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 7WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 26WS

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 7WS HEALTH...... 28WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 7WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 28WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 29WS CABINET OFFICE...... 14WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 29WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 14WS Directgov (Review)...... 14WS JUSTICE...... 30WS Serious Further Offence Review...... 30WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 17WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 17WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 31WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 31WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 20WS SCOTLAND...... 31WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 20WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 31WS

DEFENCE...... 20WS TREASURY ...... 11WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 20WS Departmental Expenditure Limits (HM Revenue and Customs)...... 11WS EDUCATION...... 22WS Departmental Expenditure Limits (National Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 22WS Savings and investments)...... 12WS Departmental Expenditure Limits (Resource)...... 12WS Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill (Ministerial ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 24WS Correction) ...... 13WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 24WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 33WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Active at 60 (Community Agents)...... 34WS AFFAIRS...... 25WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 33WS Departmental Expenditure Limits ...... 25WS Work Capability Assessment...... 35WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 23 November 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 210W CABINET OFFICE...... 236W Human Trafficking: Convictions...... 210W Departmental Press...... 236W Unemployment ...... 236W

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 238W CHURCH COMMISSIONERS ...... 174W Adult Education ...... 238W Departmental Written Questions ...... 174W Apprentices...... 239W Digital Inclusion Task Force ...... 239W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 197W Festivals and Special Occasions: Public Holidays... 240W Carbon Monoxide: Alarms...... 197W Higher Education: Coventry ...... 240W Council Housing: Sales ...... 197W Higher Education: Finance ...... 240W Departmental Grants...... 198W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 242W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 200W Trading Standards...... 243W Fire Services: Emergency Calls...... 200W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued continued Renewables Obligation...... 209W Fire Services: North West...... 202W Fire Services: Westmorland...... 203W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Housing: Construction...... 203W AFFAIRS...... 175W Land Supply ...... 204W Biofuels...... 175W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 204W Conservation Credit Scheme...... 175W Local Government Finance ...... 205W Departmental Grants...... 176W Local Government: Surveys...... 205W Departmental Postal Services...... 176W Planning...... 206W Dogs: Breeding ...... 177W Fencing: Suffolk...... 177W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 243W Floods: Insurance ...... 177W BBC: Directors ...... 243W Inland Waterways ...... 177W British Film Institute: Finance ...... 243W Local Authorities: Freedom of Information...... 178W Departmental Postal Services...... 244W Mackerel ...... 178W English Heritage ...... 244W Nature Conservation: Birds ...... 179W Music: Copyright...... 245W Renewable Energy: Finance ...... 180W Ofcom: Scotland ...... 245W United Nations Convention on the Law of Non- Television: East Sussex...... 245W navigational Uses of International Television: Scotland ...... 245W Watercourses...... 180W

DEFENCE...... 210W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 230W Armed Forces: Mental Health Services...... 210W Afghanistan: EU Aid ...... 230W Armed Forces: Recruitment ...... 210W British Overseas Territories: Remembrance Day.... 230W Armed Forces: Training ...... 219W Burma: Politics and Government ...... 231W Army...... 221W Burma: Thailand...... 231W Defence: Procurement...... 221W Cuba: EU External Relations...... 231W Defence Support Group: Scotland ...... 221W Cyprus: Christianity...... 232W Departmental Intellectual Property...... 222W Developing Countries: Departmental Departmental Pensions ...... 222W Coordination ...... 232W France: Aircraft Carriers...... 222W Government Hospitality Fund...... 233W Iraq: Military Aid ...... 222W Guatemala ...... 233W Members: Correspondence ...... 223W Iraq: Asylum...... 233W Military Aircraft ...... 223W Sergei Magnitsky...... 234W Naval Emergency Monitoring Team ...... 224W Taiwan: Carbon Emissions ...... 235W Rescue Services ...... 224W Turkmenistan: Prisoners ...... 235W Territorial Army ...... 226W HEALTH...... 246W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 261W Air Pollution: Biomass...... 246W Alternative Vote: Referendums...... 261W Autism: Health Services ...... 246W Cooperative Bank ...... 261W Benzodiazepines and Tranquillisers ...... 247W Electoral Register...... 261W Care Homes: Fees and Charges...... 247W Fixed-term Parliaments...... 261W Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease...... 247W House of Lords: Reform...... 262W Cumberland Infirmary: Costs ...... 248W Departmental Food...... 248W EDUCATION...... 181W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 249W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 181W Drugs: Misuse...... 249W Building Schools for the Future Programme: Food Standards Agency: Local Government ...... 250W Telford ...... 181W General Practitioners: Lancashire...... 250W Education Maintenance Allowance: Advertising.... 182W Health: Males ...... 250W Education Maintenance Allowance: Lewisham...... 182W Hemofil T: Clinical Trials...... 251W Free Schools: Greater London ...... 182W HIV Infection: Health Services ...... 251W Free Schools: Road Traffic...... 182W Medical Treatments...... 252W Free Schools: Teachers...... 182W Mental Health Services ...... 252W GCSE ...... 183W Midwives: Recruitment ...... 253W GCSE: Standards...... 185W Multiple Sclerosis...... 253W Pockets of Deprivation: Finance...... 185W NHS: Negligence ...... 257W Schools: Buildings...... 185W NHS Trusts: Private Finance Initiative...... 256W Schools: Discipline...... 185W Nurses: Manpower...... 257W Schools: Finance...... 186W Prescription Drugs...... 257W Schools: Secondary Education...... 186W Radiotherapy ...... 258W Schools: Standards...... 187W Social Services...... 258W Sodium Thiopental: Exports...... 259W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 206W Spinal Injuries: Surgery...... 259W Carbon Sequestration ...... 206W Surgery...... 260W Climate Change: Conferences ...... 206W Tobacco: Crime...... 260W Departmental Grants...... 206W Energy: Conservation...... 207W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 169W Energy: Housing ...... 207W Departmental Public Expenditure ...... 169W Fuel Poverty...... 207W Deportation: Offenders...... 169W Global Climate Fund ...... 209W Human Trafficking ...... 170W Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT—continued TRANSPORT—continued Illegal Immigrants...... 170W Preston-Colne Railway Line...... 190W Immigration Controls ...... 171W Railways: Complaints ...... 190W Marriage of Convenience...... 172W Railways: Freight ...... 191W Migration...... 172W Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation...... 191W Police: Accountability ...... 173W Roads: Accidents ...... 191W Police: Administration ...... 173W Transport: Finance...... 192W UK Border Agency: Northern Ireland...... 173W TREASURY ...... 263W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Arch Cru...... 263W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 290W Bank Levy...... 263W Human Resources...... 290W Banks: Finance ...... 264W Members: Allowances ...... 290W Child Benefit...... 265W Child Benefit: Chester...... 269W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 226W Child Benefit: Databases...... 269W Afghanistan: Mining...... 226W Child Benefit: Females ...... 269W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 227W Child Benefit: Scotland ...... 270W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 227W Child Poverty: Comprehensive Spending Review ... 270W Developing Countries: Microfinance ...... 228W Corporation Tax: Third Sector...... 270W Overseas Aid...... 228W Departmental Food...... 270W Pakistan: Overseas Aid ...... 229W Departmental Manpower...... 270W Thailand: Overseas Aid...... 230W Departmental Motor Vehicles...... 271W Departmental Postal Services...... 271W JUSTICE...... 286W Excise Duties: Tobacco ...... 272W Courts Service: Dorset ...... 288W Housing Benefit ...... 272W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 288W Housing: Floods ...... 273W Heroin Addiction...... 287W Import Duties: Agriculture ...... 273W Prison Population ...... 286W Incentives...... 273W Prison Service ...... 287W Individual Savings Accounts ...... 274W Prisoner Voting Rights (Costs)...... 287W Members: Correspondence ...... 275W Safe Prison Cells ...... 287W Monetary Policy ...... 275W Secure Training Centres: Restraint Techniques ...... 290W PAYE...... 275W Sentencing...... 289W Personal Income ...... 276W Sentencing Policy ...... 287W Public Expenditure...... 276W Sentencing: Young Offenders ...... 289W Revenue and Customs: Databases...... 277W Revenue and Customs: Dismissal...... 277W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 209W Revenue and Customs: Expenditure...... 278W Departmental Press: Subscriptions ...... 209W Revenue and Customs: Finance ...... 278W Members: Pensions ...... 209W Revenue and Customs: Telephone Services ...... 278W Tax Allowances...... 281W Tax Allowances: Breweries...... 281W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 180W Tax Allowances: Pensions ...... 281W Tobacco: Smuggling...... 180W Tax Avoidance ...... 282W Tax Avoidance and Evasion ...... 282W PRIME MINISTER ...... 180W Taxation: Banks ...... 283W Sergei Magnitsky...... 180W Taxation: Business ...... 284W Taxation: Construction ...... 284W SCOTLAND...... 174W Taxation: Land ...... 285W Bank Notes ...... 174W VAT: Sixth Form Education...... 285W Working Tax Credit ...... 285W TRANSPORT ...... 187W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 187W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 192W Bus Services: Finance...... 188W Employment Schemes ...... 192W Crayford Station ...... 189W Local Enterprise Partnership ...... 194W Cycling England: Cost-effectiveness...... 189W Lone Parents: Personal Income...... 194W Freight: Grants ...... 189W Pension Funds: Trusts...... 194W High Speed Rail Network ...... 189W Social Security Benefits...... 195W London and South Eastern Railway: Fares...... 190W Social Security Benefits: Disability...... 196W Motorways: Speed Limits ...... 190W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 197W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Tuesday 23 November 2010

Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 1MC Cyprus ...... 1MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 30 November 2010

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 519 Tuesday No. 77 23 November 2010

CONTENTS

Tuesday 23 November 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 147] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Justice

Controlling Migration [Col. 169] Statement—(Mrs May)

Grandparents (Access Rights) [Col. 189] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Andrew Percy)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

National Insurance Contributions Bill [Col. 192] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr Gauke)—agreed to Programme motion—(Norman Lamb)—agreed to

Internet Pornography [Col. 235] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall High Speed 2 [Col. 1WH] Youth Service [Col. 26WH] Heritage Sites (Halesowen) [Col. 53WH] Education Policies (Warrington North) [Col. 60WH] Dartford Crossing (Congestion) [Col. 68WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 7WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 169W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 1MC]