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1 Special Tribunal for Lebanon
2 In the case of The Prosecutor v. Ayyash, Badreddine, Merhi,
3 Oneissi, and Sabra
4 STL-11-01
5 Presiding Judge David Re, Judge Janet Nosworthy,
6 Judge Micheline Braidy, Judge Walid Akoum, and
7 Judge Nicola Lettieri - [Trial Chamber]
8 Monday, 16 March 2015 - [Trial Hearing]
9 [Open Session]
10 --- Upon commencing at 10.40 a.m.
11 THE REGISTRAR: The Special Tribunal for Lebanon is sitting in an
12 open session in the case of the Prosecutor versus Ayyash, Badreddine,
13 Merhi, Oneissi, and Sabra, case number STL-11-01.
14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Good morning to everyone. We are sitting
15 today to hear the evidence of Mr. Bassem El-Sabeh, but first let's take
16 the appearances starting with the Prosecution. Good morning to you,
17 Mr. Cameron.
18 MR. CAMERON: Good morning, Your Honour. It's Graeme Cameron for
19 the Prosecution today, assisted by Ms. Tanja Zekaj.
20 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And for the Legal Representative for the
21 Victims.
22 MR. HAYNES: Good morning, Your Honour. Peter Haynes and
23 Mohammad Mattar for the participating victims, assisted by Kinga Tibori.
24 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And the Defence.
25 MR. AOUN: Mr. President, Your Honours, good morning. Good
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1 morning, everyone. For today myself, Emile Aoun, and I represent the
2 interests of Mr. Salim Ayyash. Thank you.
3 MR. JONES: Good morning, Your Honours. John Jones with
4 Sarah Codde representing the interests of Mr. Badreddine.
5 MR. LAROCHELLE: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour. Good
6 morning, members of the Bench. Philippe Larochelle to represent the
7 interests of Mr. Oneissi.
8 MR. METTRAUX: Good morning, Mr. President. Good morning,
9 Your Honours. Mr. Mettraux for Mr. Sabra, together with Julien Maton and
10 Bettina Spilker.
11 MR. AOUINI: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour,
12 honourable members of the Bench. Mohamed Aouini and I'm assisted today
13 by Mr. Hedi Aouini, and we represent the interests of Mr. Merhi. Thank
14 you.
15 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And I note also the presence of two
16 representatives of the Defence Office seated in the body of the court.
17 We have started about 40 minutes late today. We had some
18 technical issues concerning the transmission and recording of the
19 proceedings and we weren't able to commence until that had been resolved.
20 That's the reason for the delay this morning.
21 Mr. Cameron, can you please give us an indication of a road map
22 where you're going with this witness.
23 MR. CAMERON: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour. Mr. El-Sabeh was a
24 long-time friend, confidant, and political ally of the late Prime
25 Minister. He was a member of the Chamber of Deputies and was first
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1 elected in Parliament in 1992 and thereafter in 1996, 2000, and 2005.
2 And he also became a member of the Council of Ministers in 1996.
3 Mr. Sabeh can describe the Prime Minister's relationship with many
4 individuals and groups over the period from the early 1990s until the
5 Prime Minister's death in 2005 --
6 [The witness entered court]
7 MR. CAMERON: -- including his changing relationship with Syrian
8 officials --
9 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Good morning to you, Mr. El-Sabeh. We will
10 be with you in a moment.
11 MR. CAMERON: Including his relationship with Syrian officials,
12 with President Bashar Al-Assad, Rustom Ghazaleh, Ghazi Kanaan, and
13 others. Mr. El-Sabeh accompanied the Prime Minister to and from Damascus
14 in December 2003, when he met with President Bashar Al-Assad and the
15 three Syrian intelligence officers, including Rustom Ghazaleh and
16 Ghazi Kanaan. And he can describe what the Prime Minister said about
17 that meeting on the drive back to Beirut and thereafter. He can also
18 describe his efforts to arrange for a follow-up meeting with Syrian
19 officials shortly thereafter in Damascus.
20 Mr. El-Sabeh was one of the four men with whom the Prime Minister
21 met in the garden in the house of Walid Jumblatt following his return
22 from Damascus after the 26th of August, 2005 [sic], meeting between the
23 Prime Minister and President Bashar Al-Assad. Most significantly,
24 Mr. El-Sabeh attended each of the three Bristol Group meetings on the
25 22nd of September, the 13th of December, 2004, and the 2nd of February,
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1 2005, and can describe the developing ideas and the eventual consensus
2 which emerged from the Bristol Group participants over that four and a
3 half month period.
4 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Exhibit-wise, Mr. Cameron?
5 MR. CAMERON: I'll be showing some press reviews, some press
6 releases, and short excerpts from the video-clips of the three Bristol
7 Group meetings to Mr. Sabeh. In addition, there is also a video-clip
8 with a short accompanying transcript of a meeting held between Prime
9 Minister Hariri and Archbishop Matar on the 10th of February, 2005.
10 That completes my general overview, if that's convenient.
11 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Thank you for that, Mr. Cameron.
12 Mr. El-Sabeh, good morning again. Can you please take the solemn
13 declaration.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
15 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
16 WITNESS: BASSEM EL-SABEH
17 [Witness answered through interpreter]
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: The transcript says August 2005. We think
19 you probably meant 2004, that's at page 3, line 23.
20 MR. CAMERON: Yes. Thank you.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: We'd like to welcome you to the proceedings,
22 Mr. El-Sabeh, and I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly, I've been
23 practicing it. Judge Braidy has been helping me but sometimes I have
24 difficulties. I just want to get the following details from you and just
25 tell me, please, if they're correct, and then Mr. Cameron will ask you
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1 some questions.
2 Your name is Bassem El-Sabeh. You were born in 1951 in Beirut.
3 You are Lebanese by nationality, and you are a former Member of
4 Parliament and a former journalist. If those details are correct, can
5 you please just say "yes," and can you tell us your current occupation as
6 well.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's right. And right now I
8 do not have a current occupation, but politically I'm the deputy
9 president of the Future Movement.
10 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I'm sure to some they would see that as a
11 full-time occupation. Mr. Cameron's going to ask you a number of
12 questions. We understand that you have some -- you do understand some
13 English. If you just look to your left there, you'll see a transcript on
14 a screen. What I'd just like you to do is to watch the words and when
15 they stop, that's when you can speak because we're -- we have a court
16 reporter, if you could just look to the corner over here to the court
17 reporter and we have interpreters in the booths up there, so it's quite
18 important they interpret and our court reporter writes down what you say.
19 But if you look at the transcript, when she stops typing or entering,
20 that means you can speak. So can you just give a few seconds between the
21 question you hear and the answer you give. So thank you for that.
22 Mr. Cameron.
23 MR. CAMERON: Thank you, Your Honour.
24 Examination by Mr. Cameron:
25 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh, I gather that you began your professional life as a
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1 journalist back in 1974; is that correct?
2 A. That's right.
3 Q. And at that time you worked for As-Safir Newspaper and in fact
4 you were one of the founders of that newspaper; is that right?
5 A. That's right.
6 Q. And you worked as a journalist from 1974 to 1990, at which time
7 you left to pursue other interests; is that right?
8 A. That's right.
9 Q. And I gather that through the 1980s until 1990, you were the
10 editor-in-chief of the paper and had a daily column which specialized in
11 political articles; is that correct?
12 A. I was a managing editor at the newspaper and not the
13 editor-in-chief.
14 Q. Thank you. But your daily columns related to the political arena
15 in Lebanon?
16 A. That's right.
17 Q. And in 1990 you left for reasons that are not related to any
18 dissatisfaction with the newspaper but to broaden your interests in other
19 areas; is that right?
20 A. Yes, that's right.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, just a clarification.
22 Mr. El-Sabeh, can you just briefly tell us what the political
23 orientation of As-Safir Newspaper was or is.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is a newspaper, a political
25 newspaper, and it is classified in Lebanon as an Arab progressive
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1 newspaper. It is close to the Lebanese Leftist Movement, and I presume
2 that it is continuing along the same political line up until these days.
3 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Which political parties or bloc does it
4 support in the elections for Parliament?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Are you talking about the current
6 period or about previous periods?
7 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Generally, as briefly as possible, please.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This newspaper used to support in
9 the 1970s and the 1980s, it used to support the progressive and leftist
10 parties. Afterwards, the political map in Lebanon changed and we were
11 facing new political parties, new political forces, and in the end this
12 is a newspaper that expresses a variety of opinions and points of views.
13 It is not a daily newspaper that represents one party.
14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: When Mr. Hariri was the Prime Minister,
15 which political bloc, party, was As-Safir supporting?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As-Safir Newspaper and for a period
17 of time was very close and friendly towards Rafik Hariri and at other
18 times it had differences of opinions with him at the political level.
19 MR. CAMERON:
20 Q. I gather at some point after you left As-Safir in 1990 you came
21 into contact first with Rafik Hariri; is that correct?
22 A. Yes, that's right.
23 Q. And just briefly, can you tell us how that came about, please.
24 A. This happened through one of our common friends, Mr. Assad
25 El-Moqaddem, the late Mr. Assad El-Moqaddem. He was the head of the
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1 media holding at the Hariri institution or the Hariri media group. He
2 asked me to respond to invitation extended by Mr. Hariri at the time to
3 visit Paris. I had left As-Safir Newspaper and I answered this
4 invitation and I did, in fact, meet with Prime Minister Hariri -- with
5 Mr. Hariri.
6 Q. And what did you -- what was the result of the meeting in Paris
7 with Mr. Hariri?
8 A. Mr. Hariri knew that I had left As-Safir Newspaper and I was no
9 longer working there and he was following regularly my articles and my
10 political opinions and positions. So he asked me for a meeting, first of
11 all, so we can meet, and then he asked me to think about publishing a
12 newspaper in Lebanon, an Arab newspaper in Lebanon. And I did in fact
13 start working and preparing this and I submitted to him a comprehensive
14 study while I was in Paris for a period of ten days, and later on I
15 returned to Beirut to work on the publishing of this newspaper.
16 Q. And what did the name of that newspaper become?
17 A. At that time we were thinking about the name "Al-Ghad" or
18 "tomorrow" in English, or also "Ghadan," also it means "tomorrow" in
19 English. Later on we agreed on the name Al-Mustaqbal because the name
20 Al-Mustaqbal was a name that could legally be used, it was a name that
21 was already on the list of the Lebanese press association.
22 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Bassem El-Sabeh, can I just ask you, if
23 it's possible to answer a question with one word such as when the
24 Prosecutor asked: What was the name of the newspaper, the answer was
25 Al-Mustaqbal. We will get you home to Beirut or wherever you wish to go
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1 much quicker that way. So can I please ask you to concentrate on the
2 question, if you can just say yes, no, I don't know, or the name of
3 something. I'm just saying this very early on in the day. Thank you.
4 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] Mr. Bassem, when you say the name
5 Al-Mustaqbal was already listed in the Lebanese press association, does
6 that mean that you bought the rights of a previously existing newspaper;
7 is that what you mean?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. The name Al-Mustaqbal,
9 Al-Mustaqbal Newspaper, the franchise was already existing and present in
10 the Lebanese press association and this is a name that was already in the
11 possession of the holding that belongs to Prime Minister Hariri.
12 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] In a previous answer you mentioned
13 that As-Safir Newspaper was close to Prime Minister Hariri until a
14 certain period of time and then they had differences of opinion. Can you
15 specify the dates when these conflicting opinions emerged between
16 As-Safir Newspaper and Mr. Hariri.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As-Safir Newspaper was very closely
18 to Prime Minister Hariri before he started working in politics. In the
19 1980s it was a friendly newspaper towards Prime Minister Hariri, at the
20 beginning of the 1990s as well. Things started changing for reasons that
21 I'm not aware of and I do not know I believe at the beginning of the
22 1990s --
23 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: So your answer is: The differences began in
24 the beginning of the 1990s?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
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1 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Mr. Sabeh, when you were writing
2 your column at As-Safir Newspaper, these articles, were they close to the
3 Pan-Arab Progressive Movement, was it the case at the time?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, we can say so but I do not
5 believe -- I mean, my writings are quite known. I used to focus on
6 issues related to the daily needs of the population, of the citizens. I
7 was criticizing the Lebanese civil war at the time.
8 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Why did Prime Minister Hariri
9 choose you in particular? Is it because of your political opinions,
10 because of your religious confession? Why did he choose you?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is something that I cannot
12 answer myself. I presume and I suppose that Prime Minister Hariri knew
13 that I had left As-Safir Newspaper and he knew also that I am someone who
14 is qualified and competent to publish a newspaper. He wanted to publish
15 a newspaper and I was the first person who started working on this issue
16 with Rafik Hariri.
17 MR. CAMERON:
18 Q. And after that initial task, did you continue to work with the
19 Prime Minister in subsequent projects from 1990 to 1992?
20 A. During that period I worked with Mr. Rafik Hariri to lay the
21 foundations for his entry into politics. The first political appearance
22 of Rafik Hariri was at the beginning of the 1990s in a rally at the
23 Beirut American University, where there was a graduation celebration.
24 And then Mr. Rafik Hariri gave his first political intervention in
25 Lebanon and I was one of those who helped write that speech. In 1982,
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1 while I was preparing for the publishing of a newspaper, I wanted to find
2 a location for that newspaper and then there was a call for parliamentary
3 elections in Lebanon. It was a political development -- a new political
4 development in the country, so I decided to run as a candidate for the
5 elections and I notified Rafik Hariri of that. He asked me what to do
6 with the newspaper --
7 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. El-Sabeh, I hesitate to interrupt. A
8 moment ago you said -- it says on the transcript: "In 1982 when I was
9 preparing for the publishing of a newspaper ..." did you say "1982" or
10 "1992"?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I meant 1992.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Again, the question Mr. Cameron asked you
13 was whether you continued to work with the Prime Minister in those
14 periods. The answer to that, I think, was yes. I don't think
15 Mr. Cameron was asking you to describe in detail what you did. I'm only
16 saying that for time reasons. If you could listen carefully to the
17 question, I think Mr. Cameron wants to ask you very specific things. I
18 mean, I know you've got a lot to tell us, but we're only probably
19 interested in a small proportion of what you could tell us. Mr. Cameron
20 I think is -- I hope -- well, I know has been trained to try and extract
21 the relevant information from you. Could you please listen very
22 carefully to the questions and just answer what Mr. Cameron is asking.
23 Mr. Cameron, could you also please interrupt Mr. El-Sabeh if he's
24 straying. Thank you.
25 MR. CAMERON: I will if he's straying, but sometimes he'll give
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1 answers in response to the questions that I would logically ask next.
2 And in those cases when I don't interrupt him, you might assume that it's
3 going all right.
4 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: We are reassured, Mr. Cameron.
5 MR. CAMERON:
6 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh, you had just begun to discuss the first time that
7 you had decided to run for elections in 1992, and was this your idea or
8 at the request of the Prime Minister or in concert with somebody else?
9 How did it come about that you made the decision to be a candidate in the
10 1992 elections?
11 A. It was my idea. The decision was mine. I made that decision
12 because I used to work in politics. I knew that it was possible for me
13 to win during those elections.
14 Q. And did you have any sort of association or coalition or alliance
15 with any other major political figure when you ran in the 1992 elections?
16 A. In Baabda constituency in Mount Lebanon area it was normal for me
17 to have an alliance with a major political party to be able to win, so I
18 made an alliance with Walid Jumblatt and the Socialist Progressive Party.
19 Q. And you were successful in 1992, and which -- what was the core
20 of your constituency? Which area in Beirut did you come to represent
21 after your election?
22 A. I represent the Baabda constituency in Mount Lebanon, not Beirut.
23 Q. And over the course of time, did that remain the same? Was that
24 always the constituency that you represented?
25 A. I represented the Baabda constituency in three parliamentary
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1 elections, and in the 2000 elections I represented the Baabda and Aley
2 constituency because they were merged together in one constituency.
3 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, I'm sure you can lead the
4 witness on these sorts of issues. I'm sure there's no dispute that he
5 was a Member of Parliament between 1992 and 2005 for whatever
6 electorates.
7 MR. CAMERON:
8 Q. Did part of your electoral constituency include the Dahyieh area
9 of Lebanon or Beirut?
10 A. Yes, of course. The southern suburbs or Dahyieh are part of the
11 Baabda constituency.
12 Q. And I take it within Dahyieh there are a number of neighbourhoods
13 or districts, if I could put it that way, such as Haret-Hreik?
14 A. Yes. Dahyieh means or includes a number of towns in South Beirut
15 and East Beirut, including Furn-El-Chebbak area, Chiyah, Hadath,
16 Bourj-El-Barajneh, Haret-Hreik, and Ghobeiry areas.
17 Q. And can you describe in very general terms and briefly the nature
18 of your constituents within the Dahyieh area?
19 A. We had different confessions in that area. It included the
20 different Lebanese confessions - I'm talking about Baabda of course - it
21 included two MPs for the Shias, one MP for the Druze, and three MPs for
22 the Maronites.
23 Q. But your confession is Shia, I understand?
24 A. Yes, that's right.
25 Q. And was a gentleman by the name of Ali Ammar also a member of the
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1 Chamber of Deputies for the same jurisdiction?
2 A. Yes, Ali Ammar was also MP for the same constituency.
3 Q. What is the party with which Ali Ammar is associated, please?
4 A. It's known that he belongs to Hezbollah or he represents
5 Hezbollah party.
6 Q. Does Hezbollah have a presence within the Dahyieh area?
7 A. Yes, of course. It's the biggest political party in Dahyieh.
8 Q. After your election, were you someone who was seen to be closely
9 politically affiliated in terms of ideology with Prime Minister Hariri,
10 notwithstanding your alliance with Walid Jumblatt?
11 A. Yes, it was well-known at the time, it was well-known to all
12 concerned parties.
13 Q. And did there come an occasion in 1994 when you were proposed to
14 be a cabinet minister by Rafik Hariri?
15 A. I was close to Prime Minister Hariri and he asked me to be a
16 minister in the government he was to form at the time.
17 Q. And how did that work out, did you become a minister?
18 A. No, I was not appointed as minister at the time. I was not a
19 minister in that government.
20 Q. And do you know why your name was not accepted?
21 A. Proposing my name as minister caused a political problem and it's
22 known that that specific problem delayed the formation of the government
23 at the time. Prime Minister Hariri insisted on including my name on the
24 list of ministers to be appointed. He also refused to sign the decree
25 for the formation of the government in case my name was not included on
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1 that list. The decree was not signed until Mr. Hariri asked me for my
2 opinion. And in fact, the president of the republic at the time,
3 Elias El-Hrawi called me to ask me to facilitate the formation of the
4 government. I was surprised. I told him: I was not causing any
5 problems and whatever you decide, Your Excellency, with the Prime
6 Minister will be implemented. Of course there were many details - and if
7 you want me I can give you the details regarding that specific matter.
8 Q. When it was decided that you were not to be a member of the
9 Council of Ministers then, shortly thereafter, after that decision, did
10 you receive a visit from Ghazi Kanaan at your house in the company of
11 Minister Dalloul?
12 A. During the meeting that was held at the presidential palace to
13 form the government and after the objection of Speaker Nabih Berri to my
14 name, Prime Minister Rafik Hariri asked Ghazi Kanaan to interfere.
15 Kanaan came with Minister Dalloul, Mohsen Dalloul, to my residence to
16 calm things down. No more. At the time, I told them that I am not an
17 obstacle to the formation of a government in Lebanon, I want to
18 facilitate things, and whatever -- what will be decided with the prime
19 minister and the president of the republic will be acceptable to me. And
20 I talked to the Prime Minister Hariri and then the government was formed.
21 Q. At the time of the meeting in 1994, was Ghazi Kanaan the senior
22 Syrian military intelligence official in Lebanon?
23 A. He was the head of the Syrian intelligence and reconnaissance
24 apparatus in Lebanon.
25 Q. Did it surprise you that he came to your house to explain a
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1 decision regarding the rejection of your name as a minister in the
2 Council of Ministers?
3 A. Of course I was surprised. Unfortunately that was the way
4 adopted to form governments in Lebanon at the time.
5 Q. What do you mean "that was the way adopted to form governments"?
6 What do you mean to convey with that statement?
7 A. I mean that a government cannot be formed without the approval of
8 the Syrian leadership.
9 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Mr. Sabeh, was the opposition an
10 internal one or external one? Meaning, was the opposition to your
11 participation in the government was on the inside or was it a Syrian
12 opposition to that?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The opposition I suppose -- I mean
14 Speaker Berri is a friend of mine. We don't have any problems, I don't
15 have any problems with Speaker Berri. But I suppose at the time that
16 Speaker Berri wanted to let Prime Minister Hariri know that he is not
17 allowed to nominate a minister who belongs to the Shia confession. I
18 think this was what was happening.
19 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And Minister Mohsen Dalloul that you
20 referred to a moment ago, was he then the minister of defence?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, he was the minister of
22 defence.
23 MR. CAMERON:
24 Q. From 1992 onwards, how close was your relationship with the
25 Prime Minister?
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1 A. It was a real friendship, fraternal relationship. We would deal
2 with one another almost on a daily basis when it comes to politics.
3 Q. And was the Prime Minister reasonably frank in his discussions
4 with you about political and social issues?
5 A. Yes, I suppose so.
6 Q. Are you in a position to describe in very general terms the
7 relationship between the Prime Minister and Syrian officials from the
8 period of about 1992 through to 1999, in very general terms?
9 A. The relationship between Rafik Hariri and political officials
10 went through ups and downs and certainly he was very close to a certain
11 party within the Syrian regime, the Syrian leadership. The Syrian regime
12 was, in fact, based on more than one position of force. And one of the
13 positions of force in Syria was represented by Abdel-Halim Khaddam and
14 Hikmat El-Chehabi and Prime Minister Hariri was on very good terms with
15 those two, with that party, if we may say. And he was not on very good
16 terms and he was not really communicating and co-ordinating very well
17 with other figures in the Syrian regime that were represented by
18 Bassel Al-Assad, for example, and General Mohammed Nasif who is also
19 known as Abi-Wael.
20 When Prime Minister Hariri formed his first government in 1998 --
21 1992, correction, this government found itself face-to-face -- within
22 less than one year from its creation, it was face-to-face to a political
23 situation and it had to deal with several positions that did not please
24 Rafik Hariri. This forced him to withdraw from political life, from
25 working in the government. He sort of boycotted and stayed at his
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1 residence in Quraitem. This required an intervention on behalf of
2 President Assad who, as far as I recall, in 1993 sent Abdel-Halim Khaddam
3 and Hikmat El-Chehabi to Beirut to meet with Prime Minister Hariri and
4 ease the tensions with him, and Prime Minister Hariri organized a big
5 dinner in their honour at his residence. This dinner was attended by a
6 large number of Lebanese politicians. The conflict was resolved on how
7 to manage the governmental affairs and issues, and Prime Minister Hariri
8 resumed his work and backtracked from his position.
9 Q. If I can stop you there. Throughout this period of time the
10 principal political leader of Syria was Hafez Al-Assad; is that correct,
11 until 2000?
12 A. Yes, that's right.
13 Q. And did you notice or did you observe any perceptible change in
14 the relationship between Rafik Hariri and the Syrian regime before and
15 after the year 2000? Was there a shift in his relationship with Syria?
16 A. I believe that the shift happened after 1996 when the extension
17 to the term of President Hrawi was first being discussed. During that
18 period, the main candidate for the Presidency of the election was
19 General Emile Lahoud and the issue of the extension of the term of
20 President Elias Hrawi did not please the other leadership in Syria who
21 was at the other extreme, at the other end, vis-à-vis Prime Minister
22 Hariri.
23 During that period preparations were underway to -- what I could
24 call an attempt to contain Rafik Hariri in 1996. And this containment or
25 this siege culminated in 1998. And finally it culminated with ousting
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1 Prime Minister Hariri from the government after the election of President
2 Lahoud to the presidency of the republic. All of this was going on and
3 was happening under the supervision of the Syrian leadership, who was
4 supervising and managing these conflicts between the various Lebanese
5 sides.
6 From 1998 until the year 2000, several political developments
7 took place in Lebanon and Rafik Hariri moved from the government to the
8 opposition. In 1999, Rafik Hariri prepared what he called a national
9 programme, and that was a document, a political-economic document, that
10 he used to answer his opponents --
11 Q. If I can just stop you there for a moment, Mr. El-Sabeh, and go
12 back to the period just before the year 2000. Now, between 1998 and the
13 year 2000, as I understand it, Rafik Hariri was not the prime minister
14 because he had left the formal political sphere; is that correct?
15 A. Yes, that's right.
16 Q. And in 1999, did you have occasion to accompany the Prime
17 Minister to Damascus at the request of Hafez Al-Assad in order to meet
18 Bashar Al-Assad?
19 A. Yes, that happened indeed.
20 Q. Did you accompany the Prime Minister to and from Damascus in his
21 car?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And did the Prime Minister, then Rafik Hariri, meet with Bashar
24 Al-Assad to your knowledge?
25 A. Yes, he met with him upon the request of President Hafez Al-Assad
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1 at a small apartment in the Qasioun mountain near Damascus. As far as I
2 recall, we were told that this apartment belonged to Bassel Al-Assad, his
3 brother, and that he used it to hold private meetings.
4 This meeting was important, as far as I know, because as far as I
5 recall, I suppose -- I think that was the first meeting between
6 Rafik Hariri and Bashar Al-Assad. I think so, I'm not 100 per cent sure,
7 but I think that was the first meeting -- the first working meeting and
8 serious meeting between Bashar Al-Assad and Rafik El-Hariri in 1999.
9 This meeting -- I was one of the people who encouraged him to go and
10 attend this meeting and to open a dialogue with Bashar Al-Assad. It was
11 the custom that whenever we went to Damascus we would pass through Anjar
12 and visit Ghazi Kanaan or we would go through Damascus and meet with
13 Abdel-Halim Khaddam. On that visit, we did not do that. On that visit
14 we went straight away to -- as if it was a secret visit, we went
15 immediately to the residence of Bashar Al-Assad in the Qasioun mountain.
16 We did not go through either Anjar, nor on the way back did we pass by
17 any other Syrian official.
18 Q. You must have been curious as to what had occurred during the
19 meeting. Did you ask the Prime Minister on the return trip: How did it
20 go?
21 A. Yes, of course. Naturally, when we went back, Prime Minister
22 Hariri usually would drive his own car by himself. I would sit next to
23 him, and naturally I asked him, "How was the meeting?" He did not
24 answer. Several minutes afterwards I told him, "Obviously you don't want
25 to tell me." He answered, "We'll talk later."
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1 We crossed the Syrian border and reached El-Masnaa area. After
2 El-Masnaa, he parked his car to the right of the road and he asked me to
3 drive the car because he wanted to rest. And I did drive the car and I
4 asked him about the results of the meeting. He answered me, as far as I
5 recall, and used an expression, saying, "God help Syria." I told him,
6 "God help Lebanon." He answered me and repeated, "We solve our own
7 problems. God help Syria. Syria will be ruled by a child."
8 And indeed I was surprised by that expression and I got the
9 impression that the meeting went really badly. And I asked him, "Was the
10 meeting that bad? Was it that bad?" He said, "No, we agreed on holding
11 another meeting; however, my impression is that things will not be
12 comfortable in the future."
13 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Mr. Sabeh, the expression "a
14 child" was used by Mr. -- Prime Minister Hariri or was -- the idea
15 belonged to Abdel-Halim Khaddam?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May you clarify the question,
17 please? Can you clarify the question?
18 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Mr. Sabeh, were there two parties
19 within the -- or two movements within the Syrian regime? Was there a
20 movement that included Vice-President Abdel-Halim Khaddam and Hikmat
21 Chehabi on the one side and they supported Hafez Assad, and was there
22 another matter, another movement, an opposite movement that supported
23 Bashar Al-Assad? Was there a difference between the two?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] At the time, Hafez Al-Assad was in
25 a position where he was controlling the leadership throughout Syria, he
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1 was in a position of strength. And there was another position of
2 strength represented by Bashar Al-Assad and some intelligence officers in
3 Syria, along with his brother Maher and other family members. And there
4 was another centre of force that included Abdel-Halim Khaddam and up
5 until a certain period of time Hikmat El-Chehabi after he left the power.
6 So that was well-known, and the Lebanese -- generally all the Lebanese
7 political forces, they were dispersed in these two directions, these two
8 opposing directions.
9 Therefore, Rafik Hariri when he decided to open a dialogue with
10 Bashar Al-Assad, he made that decision because President Hafez Al-Assad
11 at that time was in a bad health condition, his condition was not stable.
12 And he knew that the situation after 1998 in Lebanon was also unstable
13 after Rafik Hariri left the government and power. It was his intention
14 and he thought that Rafik Hariri should establish some kind of
15 relationship with Bashar and that happened indeed during that period.
16 What I'm describing here is what I heard and I'm not giving
17 impressions or points of views regarding that meeting. I'm just relating
18 what I heard from Rafik Hariri and what he told me. He said, "God help
19 Syria. It will be governed by a child."
20 MR. CAMERON:
21 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh, this is the first of three meetings that I will ask
22 you about between Rafik Hariri and President Bashar Al-Assad. So this
23 one was in 1999. The next two were after Bashar Al-Assad ascended to the
24 presidency of Syria. The next meeting that I wanted to ask you about and
25 whether you were aware of was a meeting that occurred in December of 2003
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1 in Damascus between Rafik Hariri, President Assad, and others. Were you
2 aware at the time of that meeting?
3 A. Would you please repeat your question?
4 Q. Were you aware of a meeting between Rafik Hariri and President
5 Assad in Damascus in December of 2003, which was also attended by three
6 other men?
7 A. Yes, yes.
8 Q. Did you accompany the Prime Minister to Damascus on that
9 occasion?
10 A. No, I did not accompany him to Damascus.
11 Q. How did you hear about what had happened during that meeting?
12 A. He told me about some things that happened during that meeting
13 after he returned to Beirut.
14 Q. Was it shortly after his return?
15 A. I think it was on the same day. If I remember well, it was on
16 the same day.
17 Q. What did the Prime Minister tell you about that meeting? First
18 of all, did he tell you who attended the meeting?
19 A. It was a meeting with President Bashar Al-Assad and attended by
20 Brigadier-General Ghazi Kanaan, Rustom Ghazaleh, and Brigadier-General
21 Mohammed Khallouf.
22 Q. Did you know of the meeting in advance of the Prime Minister's
23 attendance?
24 A. No, I did not.
25 Q. And did the Prime Minister tell you what occurred during the
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1 course of that meeting amongst himself and the other four men?
2 A. Mr. Hariri was surprised when he saw the three officers present
3 during that meeting. They constituted a Syrian security group of people
4 controlling all the details of the Lebanese affairs, including politics,
5 security, and other sectors. As far as I heard, Bashar Al-Assad did not
6 say much during that meeting. Mr. Hariri said to me verbatim, "The three
7 men took turns, one after each other, throwing accusations at me. I felt
8 that I was sweating from my feet. I thought for a second that I should
9 stand up and leave because of the harsh words I heard from them, words
10 given by officers to a prime minister, subordinates saying those words,
11 and I felt personally insulted and I felt my country was insulted."
12 As Mr. Hariri told me, "The worst was Mr. Rustom Ghazaleh, then
13 Mohammed Khallouf, then Ghazi Kanaan," which means that there were
14 degrees of insulting him. They talked about political things. He told
15 me that Rustom Ghazaleh said to Mr. Hariri, "Who are you? What's your
16 worth without Syria? You're nothing without Syria. You're nothing
17 without His Excellency President Bashar Al-Assad. We made you prime
18 minister and we can make you prime minister."
19 Of course the meeting included specific requests. Those requests
20 were related to the extension of the mandate of President Lahoud. They
21 were also related to the regional political situation affecting Lebanon
22 and Syria. For instance, Future Newspaper, Future TV, and Al-Sharq
23 Newspaper should shut their mouth and they should stop going against the
24 extension of the mandate.
25 THE INTERPRETER: Correction, Al-Sharq radio.
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1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "An-Nahar Newspaper is also causing
2 problems. You own certain shares in that newspaper and this should not
3 continue. You have someone called Daoud Al-Sayegh working with
4 Qornet-Chehwan and Patriarch Sfeir. This should stop."
5 Those were just examples. I just mentioned a few things that I
6 heard from him as a result of that meeting.
7 Q. Did the Prime Minister tell you about the tones of voices that
8 were used by the three men independent of Bashar Al-Assad during the
9 meeting?
10 A. Yes. I already said that Rustom Ghazaleh was the worst, the most
11 cruel, maybe because he was rewarded in a higher security position when
12 Ghazi Kanaan was no longer head of Syria's security and reconnaissance
13 apparatus in Lebanon, he replaced him.
14 Q. Do you recall if the Prime Minister told you that a phrase akin
15 to "you came from the gate of Syria" was used to the Prime Minister by
16 Rustom Ghazaleh?
17 A. Yes, yes, that's correct.
18 Q. What did he mean by that, do you know?
19 A. He was simply saying that presidents or prime ministers in
20 Lebanon are made by the Syrian regime.
21 Q. And you mentioned that the topic of the extension of President
22 Lahoud was mentioned. Do you know with any specificity what was said by
23 any of the three men to the Prime Minister?
24 A. I don't know the details, but I know that that specific topic was
25 mentioned during the meeting.
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1 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can you just clarify something for me then.
2 This was after Mr. Ghazaleh had become the chief of Syrian military
3 intelligence in Lebanon, because you said the meeting was in 2003. What
4 was Mr. Kanaan's position then in Syria? At that time, it would make him
5 the former chief of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He was also in charge of security
7 in Syria, then he was appointed minister of interior.
8 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: During that meeting, do you remember whether
9 he was at that time the minister for the interior or was, as you just
10 said, in charge of security in Syria? That was in 2003.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do not remember, but I suppose
12 that he was not yet appointed minister of interior.
13 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] I think that he was appointed
14 minister of interior in October 2004, after that meeting.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, he was a security officer and
16 I had met him with Prime Minister Hariri at his office in Damascus.
17 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] I think he was head of the
18 political security section at the time.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
20 MR. CAMERON:
21 Q. Do you recall any reference in your conversation with the Prime
22 Minister about the Americans or France or Jacques Chirac during the
23 course of the meeting?
24 A. Yes. They told him that, "Neither you, nor the Americans, nor
25 even Chirac would appoint presidents in Lebanon."
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1 THE INTERPRETER: Correction: Elect presidents in Lebanon.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think the term "conspiracy" was
3 used. Being part of a conspiracy with Syria -- against Syria with the
4 Americans and the West is not acceptable. So I think the term
5 "conspiring" against Syria was mentioned at the time.
6 MR. CAMERON:
7 Q. And you've based the entirety of what you've told us upon what
8 the Prime Minister told you shortly after the meeting?
9 A. Yes, correct.
10 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Do you -- was anyone else at that meeting
11 apart from the four Syrians and Mr. Hariri to your knowledge?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] According to what I heard, no.
13 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Why didn't Mr. Hariri have any advisers or
14 staff or his security with him?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Usually when a meeting was held
16 with the Syrian president, no adviser or security person from Hariri's
17 side would attend. He went to meet up with the Syrian President Bashar
18 Al-Assad and he was surprised to see the three officers.
19 MR. CAMERON:
20 Q. I think you indicated that the Prime Minister was humiliated by
21 the meeting. How did he frame it to you about his thoughts about what
22 had happened?
23 A. I cannot deny and hide the fact that his first reaction while he
24 was talking to me was insults, and I had rarely heard Rafik Hariri insult
25 and address insults against anyone. This reflects and expresses how much
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1 he was distressed, how much he was stressed during that meeting. He was
2 addressing insults and insulting them personally.
3 Q. And did it come to pass that you were part of an effort in the
4 ensuing days to try and repair some of the damage that had been done
5 during that particular meeting?
6 A. Perhaps I contributed to asking him to understand the situation.
7 He asked me to go to Damascus to inform Abdel-Halim Khaddam of what
8 happened during that meeting, of course to tell him the major headlines
9 of that meeting.
10 Q. This was the Syrian vice-president?
11 A. "Na'am."
12 Q. Were you on cordial terms with him?
13 A. I knew him very well.
14 Q. Did you do to Damascus in the following days after the
15 December 2003 meeting?
16 A. I did go to Damascus and I met with Khaddam.
17 Q. As a result of that meeting, was there a subsequent meeting
18 arranged with the Syrian vice-president and Rafik Hariri?
19 A. Khaddam had asked Hariri to return to Damascus; however, Hariri
20 refused and told him, "I will not be going to Damascus." And I took it
21 upon myself to carry out this mission and I went to Khaddam and saw him.
22 And after he had learned about the results of the meeting with the
23 President Bashar Al-Assad and the three officers, he had told me that he
24 had contacted by phone President Assad and told him, according to what
25 Khaddam said: It is unacceptable for a Syrian president to address the
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1 prime minister of Lebanon in such a way and to invite three Syrian
2 officials, security officials, to attend a meeting like that. It is
3 unacceptable for them to address insults to a prime minister in front and
4 in the presence of the Syrian president. This is a situation that must
5 be resolved.
6 According to Khaddam, President Bashar Al-Assad asked Khaddam to
7 act and try to resolve that situation and told him, "Go and see how you
8 can reassure Hariri and bring him back and talk to him and try to appease
9 him." I told Khaddam that Prime Minister Hariri was refusing to return
10 to Damascus; however, I told him that I would convey the message.
11 Khaddam again reiterated the importance for Prime Minister Hariri to
12 attend -- to return to Damascus and I told Prime Minister Hariri about
13 that after my return to Beirut. And I did advise him to go to Damascus.
14 Q. And did he go to Damascus?
15 A. Yes, we went together to Damascus on the following day. We went
16 to the residence of Abdel-Halim Khaddam.
17 Q. And how long did that meeting take?
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: And when was it?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It took place after that infamous
20 meeting, a few days after that infamous meeting.
21 MR. CAMERON:
22 Q. And how long did the meeting take, this subsequent meeting?
23 A. The meeting took out the same time as the lunch. It was actually
24 a lunch meeting and we attended that lunch function that was organized by
25 Khaddam at his residence. It was in honour of Prime Minister Hariri and
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1 myself, and in addition to the two of us there was the vice-speaker or
2 the vice-president of the People's Assembly in Syria, I think his name is
3 Abdel-Kader Kaddoura, and the prime minister, I believe his name was
4 Mohammed Mustafa Miro. Ghazi Kanaan was also there, in addition to the
5 minister of finance at the time - I believe he was minister of finance -
6 Mohammed Naji Al-Otari, before he became prime minister. As far as I
7 recall, these four individuals, the president -- the speaker of the
8 house, the minister of finance, the prime minister, Ghazi Kanaan,
9 Abdel-Halim Khaddam, Prime Minister Hariri, and myself, we were all
10 attending this lunch function.
11 Q. You had earlier described in the meeting with President Assad
12 that Ghazi Kanaan had been the least aggressive of the three Syrian
13 officials; am I correct about that?
14 A. Yes, that's right. According to what I heard from Prime Minister
15 Hariri.
16 Q. And in this luncheon meeting, was it generally a pleasant
17 atmosphere?
18 A. Yes, to be frank and to be quite honest, the atmosphere was
19 rather amicable, contrary to the previous meeting. And they were
20 commending Prime Minister Hariri, his role and his position. However,
21 the conversations digressed and we started talking about a variety of
22 topics including cultural topics, politics in general, et cetera.
23 Q. While you were present and witness to what was going on, was
24 there anything of substance discussed that related to alter the Prime
25 Minister's feelings about what had happened a few days earlier?
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1 A. In addition to the praise that was addressed to Prime Minister
2 Hariri, there was something that attracted my attention during that
3 meeting. Brigadier-General Ghazi Kanaan addressed the Syrian officials
4 who were present and said, particularly to the Speaker of the House, he
5 told him, "You've been a Speaker for a very long time. Maybe it's time
6 for you to get some rest. In all cases, we've done a lot to bring you
7 and get you here, perhaps your age does not allow you to go on anymore."
8 And he made some observations regarding issues related to the internal
9 Syrian political affairs in the presence of the Prime Minister, the
10 minister of finance, the Speaker, that was something that drew my
11 attention and that was something I did not forget, the way he was
12 addressing these political leaders, political figures.
13 And indeed when we left Damascus, I told the Prime Minister, I
14 told Prime Minister Hariri, "Did you hear what Ghazi said to the Speaker
15 of the House?" And Prime Minister Hariri's comment was, "He's trying to
16 give me the impression that he talks to us the way he addresses Syrian
17 politicians and that it is okay for a Syrian security official to address
18 and talk to a Lebanese politician the same way he would talk with a
19 Syrian politician and a Syrian official." That was his impression.
20 Q. The third meeting that I'd like to ask you about occurred in late
21 August of 2004. Now, in the second meeting that you described, you
22 referred to the fact that President Assad had indicated that it was --
23 words to the effect that it was Syria who would determine the next
24 president of Lebanon or the extension. Did I understand you correctly?
25 A. Are you talking about the second meeting in 2003? Yes, yes.
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1 This was what was being discussed. That was the main topic of discussion
2 and conversation.
3 Q. Can you tell us in brief detail, throughout 2004, after that
4 meeting, what the Prime Minister's position was about who should assume
5 the next presidency of Lebanon?
6 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Which meeting are we talking about? The
7 witness asked you if you're talking about 2003. Are you talking about
8 the meeting in August 2004? Can you just clarify that for Mr. El-Sabeh,
9 please.
10 MR. CAMERON: Of course.
11 Q. My question which was a predicate question to the meeting of 2004
12 was in respect of the meeting in 2003, and as I understand it, in 2003
13 there was a reference by President Assad that it was Syria who would
14 choose the next president of Lebanon, not the Americans, not the French,
15 it was Syria. Am I correct that in the meeting of 2003, that was the
16 message delivered to the Prime Minister by President Assad?
17 A. Through the officers of President Assad. The three officers are
18 the ones who conveyed that message, particularly one of them, as far as I
19 understood, it was Rustom Ghazaleh who discussed that matter during the
20 meeting.
21 Q. And notwithstanding the delivery of that message, in 2004 prior
22 to August, do you know what the Prime Minister's position was as to who
23 should become the next president of Lebanon after the expiry of President
24 Lahoud's mandate?
25 A. Prime Minister Hariri was of the opinion and was trying to
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1 prevent the extension of the term of President Lahoud in every political
2 way possible. His main concern was to prevent the extension. He was of
3 the opinion that it was possible to agree on the next president with
4 Damascus and with other Lebanese leaders.
5 Q. And was he public in his position that he did not agree with the
6 extension of President Lahoud's mandate beyond the constitutionally
7 permitted time-period?
8 A. Yes, his position was well-known. It was not a secret. It was
9 not a political secret in Lebanon that Hariri was against the extension.
10 It was the fact. It was actually the fact in politics at the time.
11 Q. Do you know whether the Prime Minister had any kind of working
12 relationship with Emile Lahoud, President Lahoud?
13 A. What do you mean by that?
14 Q. When Rafik Hariri was the prime minister in Lebanon and when
15 Emile Lahoud was the president of Lebanon, did they work well together
16 for the benefit of the country?
17 A. The mandate of President Lahoud was a period of instability,
18 especially when it comes to the relationship with Rafik Hariri. Since
19 1998 until the end of his mandate, the relationship between Lahoud and
20 Hariri witnessed many problems. During most of his mandate, Rafik Hariri
21 was in the opposition, especially between 1998 and 2000, until he came
22 back as Prime Minister in 2000 and his work was not easy anymore. When
23 Rafik Hariri made every effort to hold the Paris I Conference, then the
24 Paris II Conference, political campaigns, unprecedented political
25 campaigns against Rafik Hariri took place before every conference. And
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1 after every economic conference of that type, it was said to
2 Rafik Hariri: Expect to be attacked if the conference succeeds. And
3 indeed during that period, Rafik Hariri faced a lot of campaigns,
4 articles, statements, conferences, protests. Everything is documented in
5 the media outlets --
6 Q. Let me try and put the question in a slightly different way. By
7 2004, at least during the first half of 2004, on a scale of 1 to 10 - 10
8 being perfect co-operation, 0 being no possibility of co-operation - how
9 would you rate the Prime Minister's relationship with President Lahoud in
10 terms of them fulfilling the responsibilities of their offices together
11 for the benefit of the country?
12 A. [In English] Three over 10.
13 Q. So in your view, that's a fairly poor relationship, is it?
14 A. [Interpretation] It was no secret. It was well-known. The
15 relationship was not good, not at any time. And even during the mutual
16 or what was so-called mutual praise period, it was all superficial and
17 not real.
18 Q. What was the mutual praise period that you talked about?
19 A. It was after the formation of the government in 2000.
20 Q. Now, the third meeting now that I'd like to come to is the
21 meeting of late August --
22 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, just before you do, I just want
23 to clarify with the witness.
24 How would you describe the personal relations generally between
25 Mr. Lahoud and Mr. Hariri? We've heard evidence in this chamber that
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1 they weren't friends on any version of the word "friend," but how would
2 you describe their relation? Was there personal animosity between the
3 two of them? And if so, what was the cause of that?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm giving you here my personal
5 opinion more than facts. We are talking about two different mentalities,
6 contradicting mentalities even. One civilian mentality and the other a
7 military mentality. When managing public affairs, Rafik Hariri followed
8 a methodology that was totally different from that of Lahoud. Since his
9 election, Emile Lahoud formed what we called in the presidential palace
10 the operation room, it was a military service to follow up all the
11 Lebanese affairs. Rafik Hariri was totally different. He was from a
12 totally different political culture and even administrative culture.
13 I think that at the beginning of 2000 Lahoud wanted to hold a
14 meeting with Rafik Hariri so he used to ask him to go to the military
15 bath, so they held the meeting in an environment that was not appropriate
16 for meetings about the politics. It was more -- what we call in Lebanon
17 military bath but it was actually the officers' club.
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: You're not talking about a hammam or
19 something like that?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I'm talking about the officers'
21 club that is called in French "bain militaire" and it is for the military
22 in Lebanon, military officials in Lebanon.
23 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: All right. Okay. I was just trying to get
24 at the personal. I understand the professional and methodological
25 differences they had. But was there some personal animus between them
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1 or, in other words, they didn't like each other, they didn't get on?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It's not just that Lahoud disagrees
3 with Rafik Hariri about everything, he represented a political faction
4 that is headed by President Bashar Al-Assad. I mean that there was lack
5 of confidence between the two men and it was mutual, it was a fact.
6 However, Hariri did not trust Emile Lahoud and Bashar Al-Assad, and on
7 the other side Lahoud and Assad did not trust Hariri, but there was a
8 difference between the two because one faction had tools, apparatuses,
9 and capabilities to translate that lack of confidence, while Hariri did
10 not. That is why he was in a weak position vis-à-vis the lack of
11 confidence of the others, especially when it comes to his political
12 position.
13 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] Mr. Bassem, you talked about
14 requests made during the December 2003 meeting made by the Syrian
15 officials to Mr. Hariri. You talked about the Friday sermons, about the
16 Future TV, Future Newspaper. How did Mr. Hariri deal with those requests
17 after the meeting and was the Syrian regime satisfied with his
18 performance after the meeting?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mr. Hariri made some internal
20 consultations with his advisers and the leaders who were close to him,
21 political leaders. As a result he decided to respect those demands. I
22 believe he gave instructions to his media institutions to tone things
23 down and to focus on external affairs. He told his people at Future TV
24 to talk about Malaysia. Measures were taken regarding his shares at
25 An-Nahar Newspaper. He had to sell those shares despite his friendship
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1 with late Ghassan Tueini. I also remember that Daoud Al-Sayegh, a man
2 who represents political innocence, was no longer working in politics for
3 a while. And I believe that these developments continued for a few
4 months, then we had to go back to scratch.
5 MR. CAMERON:
6 Q. Turning now to the third meeting that I wanted to inquire about
7 in late August of 2004. Were you aware before the meeting occurred that
8 it was going to happen?
9 A. I think so, yes.
10 Q. And did you discuss with the Prime Minister what he might say or
11 what his expectations were when he met with President Assad?
12 A. As far as I remember, he was assuming that he would have the
13 capacity to discuss the issue of extension with President Assad; however,
14 things went in a completely different direction and not the way he
15 wanted.
16 Q. Now, how did you first learn of what had happened in Damascus
17 during that meeting?
18 A. I learned that after he returned to Beirut.
19 Q. And where were you when he --
20 A. I was at Quraitem and I received a call asking me to meet Prime
21 Minister Hariri to the residence of Walid Jumblatt.
22 Q. Was that the same day as the meeting?
23 A. Yes, yes.
24 Q. And did you go to Mr. Jumblatt's house?
25 A. Yes, I did go to the residence of Walid Jumblatt, and as far as I
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1 remember I arrived before Prime Minister Hariri, a few minutes before his
2 arrival.
3 Q. Who else was there with you and presumably Mr. Jumblatt?
4 A. Marwan Hamade, Mr. Marwan Hamade was there, and Mr. Ghazi
5 El-Aridi.
6 Q. And at the time Mr. Aridi was a minister in the Council of
7 Ministers?
8 A. No, no, I do not --
9 Q. If you can't recall, that's fine. So the four of you are waiting
10 and how long after that does the Prime Minister come?
11 A. A few minutes after I arrived Prime Minister Hariri there. Prime
12 Minister Hariri arrived and as far as I remember he was in his car. He
13 was driving. He entered -- the car entered to the external yard of the
14 residence of Mr. Jumblatt, and we were sitting there near a small garden.
15 The first scene -- the first thing I saw was that we were all
16 surprised by the appearance of Prime Minister Hariri. He had removed his
17 tie and he didn't look all right. He looked very tired. It was obvious
18 that he was very tired. And then we moved to meet all of us but not for
19 a very long time, and the first reaction -- our first reaction was that
20 that meeting was hopeless. So he said, simply put, he said, "I will say
21 things straight away. The meeting did not go well. They are insisting
22 on the extension and they are asking me to submit the extension to
23 Parliament." He was asked, Prime Minister Hariri, that is, "Did you
24 discuss that with President Assad? Did you explain to him the dangers?"
25 He said, "I tried to explain to him my point of view. His immediate
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1 reaction was: 'You are here not to give your opinion. You are here to
2 implement a decision.'" He was told, "What do you want to do?" He
3 said --
4 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: What we just got in English: He was told,
5 "What do you want to do?"
6 Are you referring to the conversation that Mr. Hariri had with
7 you and the others at Mr. Jumblatt's place or what Mr. Hariri told you
8 that had happened in his meeting with President Assad in Damascus?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I'm talking about what happened
10 at the residence of Walid Jumblatt. He was told there -- we told him,
11 rather --
12 JUDGE AKOUM: [Interpretation] Mr. Bassem, in the transcript they
13 are saying that you said that Bashar Al-Assad told Prime Minister Hariri,
14 "You are not here to give an opinion. You are here to implement a
15 decision, to do what should be done." It is said in a way as there is a
16 question mark. Was there a question mark or was he giving him an order?
17 And I can see here a question mark on line 18 of page 38. Was he being
18 asked or was he being given an order?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What we understood is that was an
20 order.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: All right, Mr. El-Sabeh, we're going to have
22 a break now for lunch so -- you're looking relieved and happy. So we
23 will adjourn now and see you back after the lunch break.
24 --- Luncheon recess taken at 12.41 p.m.
25 --- On resuming at 2.03 p.m.
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1 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Sabeh, we welcome you back after lunch.
2 Mr. Cameron is going to continue. I think we're mid-meeting August 2004.
3 Please continue.
4 MR. CAMERON: Thank you.
5 Q. Mr. Sabeh, the last thing that you said about this meeting, as I
6 recall it, was reiterating the Prime Minister's words:
7 "I tried to explain to him," i.e., Bashar Al-Assad, "my point of
8 view. His immediate reaction was: 'You are here not to give your
9 opinion. You are here to implement a decision.'"
10 Now, following along from that testimony, can you tell the
11 Tribunal what it was that you also recall the Prime Minister saying about
12 what had happened in Damascus?
13 A. Mr. Hariri added, "The man told me," meaning President Assad,
14 "indirectly: 'You will vote for the extension or I will break Beirut
15 over your heads. You will vote for the extension or I will break Beirut
16 over your heads.'" At that moment, Walid Jumblatt interfered and said to
17 him, "You can't shoulder that responsibility. You can only vote for the
18 extension of the mandate. I can shoulder the responsibility because they
19 killed my father and they cannot kill me." And today is the
20 commemoration of the killing of Kamal Jumblatt on March 16.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: What do you think Mr. Jumblatt meant by: "I
22 will shoulder the responsibility"?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He meant that he will vote against
24 the extension, but Mr. Hariri should vote in favour of the extension.
25 MR. CAMERON:
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1 Q. Before this conversation or before you heard about this
2 conversation, did you have any significant concerns for the safety of the
3 Prime Minister in Lebanon as he carried out his duties, prior to this
4 conversation?
5 A. Of course. And since 2003, so from 2003 until 2005 we had enough
6 information leading to increased fears regarding the safety and security
7 of Mr. Rafik Hariri. I would like to mention four indicators of the
8 security risk against Rafik Hariri. The first one was in 2003, the
9 meeting that took place with the three officers; two, the missiles
10 against Future TV and Al-Sharq radio in 2003 again; three, the attempted
11 assassination of Marwan Hamade; and four, the last meeting with Bashar
12 Al-Assad. All these are security events signalling a possible security
13 operation by Bashar Assad or the Syrian regime against Rafik Hariri. In
14 our opinion, everything was focused on that aspect. I believe that the
15 person who can kill 100.000 Syrian citizens will not stop at the killing
16 of Rafik Hariri. It will be easy for him.
17 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh --
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, just go back a second.
19 You mentioned, Mr. El-Sabeh, you mentioned the missiles against
20 Future TV and Al-Sharq radio. Mr. El-Sabeh or Mr. Cameron do you have a
21 date for that? I don't think there would be any controversy about the
22 date. Could you give it to us, please?
23 MR. CAMERON: I don't recall the precise date.
24 Q. Do you recall the precise date?
25 A. I believe it was in June 2003. Yes, as far as I remember.
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1 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Okay. Where are we, back at the meeting?
2 Okay.
3 MR. CAMERON:
4 Q. Do you recall anything of what the Prime Minister said had
5 happened in Damascus that referred to a reference to the Prime Minister
6 co-operating with the Americans or the French in this particular meeting,
7 the August meeting?
8 A. Are we talking about the meeting of August 2003?
9 Q. No. It was December 2003 and August 2004 --
10 A. [In English] 2004.
11 Q. -- and I'm talking about the August 2004. Was there a --
12 A. [Interpretation] As far as I remember, yes, there was reference
13 to that and it happened more than once. There was mention of the
14 American intervention and the name of President Chirac was mentioned
15 repeatedly whenever there was talk about a party that is able or a side
16 that is able to interfere in the presidential elections in Lebanon.
17 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh, my question is narrower. When you're casting your
18 mind back as to what the Prime Minister told you about what had happened
19 in Damascus in August of 2004, the third of the three meetings, do you
20 recall the Prime Minister recounting any references made by Bashar
21 Al-Assad to the Prime Minister co-operating with the Americans or the
22 French?
23 A. I heard that after the meeting at the residence of Walid Jumblatt
24 and not during the meeting itself. Afterwards I met Rafik Hariri more
25 than once and in one of those meetings he told me that Bashar Assad
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1 mentioned that specifically, saying that: We will bring the Lebanese
2 president, not the Americans nor the French. It was not during the
3 meeting with Walid Jumblatt but it was in a meeting at his residence in
4 Quraitem Palace.
5 Q. But did you understand that those phrases to be uttered by Bashar
6 Al-Assad during the August 2004 meeting?
7 A. Yes, yes.
8 Q. So you learned some things about the meeting when you were at
9 Walid Jumblatt's house, and subsequently to that, in additional meetings
10 with the Prime Minister, you learned other things that had been said in
11 the August meeting; is that right?
12 A. Yes, that's right.
13 Q. Did Walid Jumblatt's advice to the Prime Minister surprise you,
14 having regard to the Prime Minister's public position on the extension of
15 the president?
16 A. I was not surprised by that piece of advice because I was in
17 favour of it and I also told Mr. Hariri during the same meeting that I
18 agree with Mr. Walid Jumblatt. I think that any prime minister in
19 Lebanon - and especially in the current situation - can have no future if
20 he works against the Syrian will and the Syrian regime. I accepted that
21 and I even encouraged the Prime Minister to do it. He was very troubled
22 regarding that specific matter. He was under a lot of pressure, and in
23 the end he made his decision and voted in favour of the extension of the
24 mandate.
25 Q. Up until that point, he was not the only loud speaker against the
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1 extension of the president.
2 MR. CAMERON: I'd like to take the witness now to what appears at
3 positions 8 and 9 in the queue. The English transcript is at tab or
4 position 8 and the Arabic at 9. This is a press review that was referred
5 to during the course of Dr. Khoury's testimony. It was entered then as
6 Exhibit P364, and it's a press review dated the 2nd of September, 2004.
7 When it comes up I'd ask the clerk to take us to page 3.
8 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Is this the top of the page under:
9 "Lebanese Parties Hold Meeting, Reject Foreign Interference in
10 Lebanon" --
11 MR. CAMERON: The part that --
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Wait.
13 MR. CAMERON: Sorry. The section that I'm interested in is the
14 second heading:
15 "Maronite Archbishop blasts Syrian interference in Lebanon in
16 harshest way."
17 It's a long passage.
18 Q. I'm just going to read some shorter portions of it. The first
19 paragraph underneath "The Middle East Reporter" heading said:
20 "The Christian Maronite clergy led by Patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir
21 detonated a massive political bomb Wednesday, only 48 hours before the
22 Parliament is scheduled to meet to vote for the amendment of the
23 constitution to allow the extension of President Emile Lahoud's mandate
24 by three years. The Council of Maronite archbishops accused Syria openly
25 and in the harshest possible language of turning Lebanon into a Syrian
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1 province and manipulating it the way it pleases ever since its troops
2 first entered Lebanon back in 1976, An-Nahar reported Thursday. It is
3 said that the amendment of the constitution to extend Lahoud's mandate
4 upon Syria's behest was the straw that broke the camel's back, prompting
5 the Maronite clergy, which represents the community from which the
6 Lebanese presidents are elected, to blow up in a way that exceeded all
7 expectations even within the opposition."
8 During this period of time, was it commonly known that the
9 extension -- the drive to extend the term of President Lahoud was at the
10 behest of Syria? Was that the public's perception?
11 A. Yes, that was the impression in Lebanon. Because the extension
12 was at the request of the Syrians, so it was requested by the Syrians to
13 the Lebanese Prime Minister while it should have went through the
14 Parliament. They asked the Parliament to amend the constitution and a
15 parliamentary session was held for ten minutes alone, whereby a vote was
16 made in favour of the extension of the mandate of Lahoud upon the request
17 of the Syrian regime.
18 Q. And over the page to page 4, under the heading "Maronite Bishop
19 issues historic appeal that needs historic response," we have a reference
20 to:
21 "Gebran Tueini, the Director-General of Lebanon's influential
22 daily An-Nahar," it's saying, "today called on President Emile Lahoud of
23 Lebanon and Syrian President Bashar Assad to listen to the 'historic'
24 appeal made yesterday by the Maronite Bishops and review their positions
25 regarding the presidential elections in Lebanon.'
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1 You were a journalist in the political realm for many years and
2 through this period of time a Member of Parliament. Can you describe the
3 significance of the statement of the patriarch as the leader of the
4 Christian Maronite clergy on this issue? What was its true significance?
5 A. This appeal constituted the basis and one of the basic rules and
6 attempts to try to put an end to the Syrian military presence in Lebanon.
7 It was not simply a media call, a media appeal; it reflected a true
8 national will, the will of the majority of the Lebanese, and that was
9 reflected once again on the 14th of March of 2005. This appeal was an
10 important turning point in the Lebanese political life and this has led
11 to putting an end to the Syrian military presence in Lebanon.
12 Q. Did you regard this at the time as an important statement from
13 the patriarch?
14 A. It was a historic appeal, undoubtedly. This was one of the
15 historic appeals made by the bishops and it will be recorded and it will
16 be down in the history of the appeals made by the Maronite bishops. It
17 was something historic, unusual, and it constituted the basis and a
18 turning point in the history of Lebanon.
19 Q. As we've heard, Rafik Hariri and many others, following your
20 advice, the advice of Walid Jumblatt, voted in favour of the extension of
21 President Lahoud's term, but you did not. Can you tell us why that is?
22 A. There was no major reason, besides the fact that I was against
23 the extension first and foremost. However, there is something that
24 should be noted in this regard. When Prime Minister Hariri left the
25 residence of Walid Jumblatt, I accompanied him to his car. When we
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1 reached the car he told me, "I'm going to Faqra," to the town of Faqra,
2 he meant by that his palace in the town of Faqra. And he told me, "Stay
3 with Walid." This expression was an indication on behalf of Rafik Hariri
4 to me, as if he was telling me to remain with Walid Jumblatt, to stay
5 with him also in politics and in the political decision that the
6 Democratic Gathering under the leadership of Walid Jumblatt had taken a
7 decision to refuse the extension of President Lahoud's term.
8 MR. CAMERON: If I could now take the witness to a second article
9 that appears at position 24 in the Arabic and 25 in the English on the
10 Prosecution's presentation queue. This is an article from An-Nahar
11 Newspaper dated the 4th of September, 2004. And the title is: "96 MPs
12 for the extension of the mandate 'despite the constitution' amidst a wave
13 of photos and a military deployment. 29 MPs avenging the democracy and
14 rejecting 'the foreign decision.'"
15 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron.
16 MR. CAMERON: Sorry.
17 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Just before you ask your question, can I
18 just go back and ask Mr. El-Sabeh, can you just remind us how many other
19 Members of Parliament voted against the extension of President Lahoud?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The names are listed on the list,
21 are included in the list.
22 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: All right.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As for the number, I don't recall
24 the number, but the names are well-known. 29.
25 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I should have read it before I asked you.
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1 MR. CAMERON: I will be in a better position to assist you once I
2 describe a couple of things and perhaps we could give it an exhibit
3 number if that's suitable. This originally appeared at the Prosecution's
4 motion under 154 on the 21st of October, F1711, in annex A 1.6, row 1.
5 And it was deemed admissible in the Trial Chamber's decision of the
6 30th of December, 2014, which is F1802. The ERN range for the document
7 is 60298546 to 563. And this represents an article from An-Nahar
8 Newspaper dated the 4th of September. And I wonder if we might seek an
9 exhibit number for this and then take the witness to the portions of the
10 article. As I understand it, the next exhibit is 406.
11 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: This will be Prosecution Exhibit P406.
12 MR. CAMERON:
13 Q. It's a lengthy article, Mr. El-Sabeh, but I'm only going to take
14 you to a couple of passages for the moment. The article begins:
15 "This is at the same time the end of the journey and the
16 beginning of a new one.
17 "The conclusion of the mandate extension seemed to open the
18 Lebanese situation and the Syrian situation in Lebanon to a serious
19 labyrinth, mainly interpreted in the confrontation between Syria and the
20 international community, which reach the peak upon the issuance of the
21 Security Council's Resolution number 1559 at 3.00 a.m. on Thursday
22 2 September. The same day witnessed at 8.30 p.m. an additional
23 three-year extension of the mandate of President Lahoud."
24 MR. CAMERON: And if we can go to the second page at ERN
25 60298547, there is a list of 29 names entitled: "Honour List," and
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1 indicating below that:
2 "Here is an honour list of the 29 MPs who opposed the extension."
3 And we see at number 1, Mr. Jumblatt; number 2, Mr. Hamade; and
4 you appear at number 6, Bassem El-Sabeh. In addition, we have number 16,
5 Pierre El-Gemayel; 18, Ghazi El-Aridi; 27, Ahmed Fatfat; and 28, Ghattas
6 Khoury.
7 Which of those names or of any of the 29 names would people
8 associate at the time with having an alliance or a loyalty to
9 Rafik Hariri?
10 A. Most of the names were loyal and had alliances with Rafik Hariri,
11 including Walid Jumblatt. However, there are names that had a special
12 character in their relationship with Rafik Hariri. They were considered
13 to be very close to Rafik Hariri's political decisions. We can talk in
14 this regard about Dr. Ghattas Khoury, about Dr. Ahmad Fatfat. We can
15 also talk about Mr. Mohammed El-Hajjar, and myself. On this list there
16 are names such as Antoine Andraos, for example. On that list there are
17 at least five individuals out of 29 who were under the political umbrella
18 of Rafik Hariri, if I may call it this way, the direct umbrella of
19 Rafik Hariri, not only through their relationship with Walid Jumblatt or
20 with any other political party. These names were closely linked
21 politically to Rafik Hariri and were considered loyal to him.
22 Q. And one of the next steps that I'd like to discuss with you is
23 the formation of the Bristol Group. I don't think it's any contest that
24 the first Bristol Group meeting was held on the 22nd of September, 2004.
25 And did some of the members listed here in the honour list form the
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1 parties who would be active in the Bristol Group in the coming months?
2 A. Most of the names practically were active in the context of the
3 Bristol Group meetings. Including what I can call the Hariri group
4 within the Bristol, and this is composed of six names: Dr. Ghattas
5 Khoury, Ahmad Fatfat, Antoine Andraos, Mohammed El-Hajjar, the late
6 Bassel Fuleihan, and myself.
7 MR. CAMERON: If I could take the witness now to the document
8 that appears at positions 26 and 27 of the presentation queue, 26 in
9 Arabic, 27 in English, this is a press release dated the 19th of
10 September, 2004, headed: "Democratic Gathering bloc to approve paper
11 today, National meeting in Bristol Hotel tomorrow."
12 This was initially introduced into evidence as Exhibit P303.
13 It's part of a collection of press releases. It can remain there with
14 its ERN or we could give it an additional evidence exhibit number. So
15 the ERN range for this particular document is D0004668 to 4669. And
16 having regard to the date, I'll read the first half of the first
17 paragraph.
18 "After a closed meeting yesterday with Prime Minister Rafik
19 Hariri, Progressive Socialist Party Chairman Walid Jumblatt announced
20 that he is 'in solidarity with the opposition. We either participate in
21 the government together or not.'"
22 Q. Now, what --
23 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. --
24 MR. CAMERON: Sorry.
25 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Just before we go on, the date of the press
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1 release is Beirut, the 19th of September, 2004, and it was published in
2 Al-Mustaqbal, it appears, on Monday, the 20th of September, 2004; is that
3 correct?
4 MR. CAMERON: Yes, that seems to be correct. There's a reference
5 to -- after the sentence I read:
6 "He promised to announce additional positions next Thursday."
7 "Next Thursday" would be the 23rd because the 19th of September was a
8 Sunday.
9 Q. Mr. El-Sabeh, do you know what Walid Jumblatt was talking about
10 when he announced that he was in solidarity with the opposition?
11 A. During that period the dialogue with the Qornet-Chehwan
12 Gathering, meaning the Christian forces within the opposition, the forces
13 who were working under the umbrella of the Maronite patriarchy, so the
14 dialogue with them -- between them and Walid Jumblatt had taken on some
15 serious form and was becoming more serious. Following the meeting --
16 following his meeting with Prime Minister Hariri, he declared that and it
17 is as if he was saying as well that Prime Minister Hariri either will
18 participate in this government with the opposition or will not be
19 participating at all. And I suppose, as far as I remember, that these
20 issues started prior to the formation of the latest government before the
21 assassination of Prime Minister Hariri.
22 Q. In the days and weeks leading up to the first meeting of the
23 Bristol Group, were you aware that the Prime Minister, A, had knowledge
24 of the meeting; and B, approved or offered his support for such a
25 meeting?
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1 A. He had full knowledge of the date of the meeting and the
2 participants.
3 Q. And do you know whether he offered his support, directly or
4 indirectly, to the members of the Bristol Group in advance of the first
5 meeting?
6 A. When Prime Minister Rafik Hariri allows a number of MPs to
7 participate in the Bristol Gathering, it automatically means that Prime
8 Minister Rafik Hariri is also present in that meeting. We are talking
9 about six MPs, not just one person. It is true that in 2004 the
10 participation of late Bassel Fuleihan, of Ahmad Fatfat, and Ghattas
11 Khoury had a special meaning and it was because they were part of the
12 Beirut Decision Bloc of Mr. Rafik Hariri. It was named at the time the
13 National Dignity Bloc. But my presence, that of Mohammed El-Hajjar and
14 Antoine Andraos also was an indication that Prime Minister Rafik Hariri
15 provided the necessary coverage for his participation in the Bristol
16 Gathering.
17 MR. CAMERON: I'd like to take the witness now to the video that
18 appears at position 7 on the queue, which was entered on January 16th as
19 P365. I'm going to play three very brief sections of that video. So the
20 first section is at around 2200 in the timing.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. CAMERON:
23 Q. Just stopping there for a moment. Can you decipher what's on
24 that banner for us, please.
25 A. "Defending the freedoms and protecting the constitution, the
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1 preparatory committee."
2 MR. CAMERON: Continue, please.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. CAMERON:
5 Q. And the gentleman in blue jeans that we see now sitting in the
6 middle, is that --
7 MR. CAMERON: If we could stop it there, please.
8 Q. -- that's Mr. Jumblatt?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Without necessarily naming the people, in general who is he
11 sitting with at this particular meeting?
12 MR. CAMERON: If we could continue on just a little bit and get a
13 wider shot.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He is sitting here with
16 Mr. Carlos Edde, Mr. Nehmeh Tomeh, Mr. Salah Hnein.
17 MR. CAMERON: Could we carry on, please.
18 [Video-clip played]
19 MR. CAMERON:
20 Q. Are the gentlemen you mentioned associated with Mr. -- or allied
21 with Mr. Jumblatt?
22 A. Yes, in principle Mr. Nehmeh Tomeh and Salah Hnein were MPs in
23 the Democratic Gathering. Carlos Edde was head of the National Bloc
24 Party. Here we can see Akram Chehayeb from the same Bloc of Walid
25 Jumblatt and Mr. Fares Soueid from Qornet-Chehwan.
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1 MR. CAMERON: And if we could advance to 2350, please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. CAMERON:
4 Q. Here we see a younger version of you; is that right?
5 A. Yes, that's right.
6 MR. CAMERON: And if we can advance to 24.11, please.
7 [Video-clip played]
8 MR. CAMERON:
9 Q. And is that Mr. Hamade in the middle?
10 A. Yes, Marwan Hamade with Akram Chehayeb.
11 Q. How would you describe the significance of this first meeting of
12 the Bristol Gathering in terms of Lebanese politics?
13 A. The Bristol Gathering was the founding movement of a new
14 political movement in Lebanon. After Rafik Hariri made a decision to
15 vote for the extension, at the same time he made another decision to be
16 part of the opposition. He came back from Damascus with two decisions.
17 He came back from the meeting with Bashar Assad with two decisions: One
18 voting for the extension; and two, becoming part of the political
19 opposition.
20 The Bristol Gathering was the basis for the new political
21 opposition in Lebanon that made the 2005 parliamentary elections. After
22 voting for the extension, Rafik Hariri wanted to go to the elections with
23 new political alliances based on the group of people forming the Bristol
24 Gathering, meaning Walid Jumblatt, Qornet-Chehwan, and of course the
25 alliance with the Lebanese Maronite patriarch. Add to that the
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1 independent candidates from different regions.
2 Q. We saw you and Mr. Hamade. Do you recall whether Antoine Andraos
3 and Mohammed El-Hajjar were at the first Bristol Group meeting?
4 A. Yes, they did attend it.
5 Q. And shortly after the Bristol Group meeting, there was the
6 attempted assassination against Mr. Hamade?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And did you discuss the import of that act with the Prime
9 Minister?
10 A. Many discussions took place after the attempted assassination of
11 Minister Marwan Hamade, and particularly with Prime Minister
12 Rafik Hariri. There was a common denominator to those discussions. It
13 united all the different opinions, allowing everyone to think that it was
14 a message to Rafik Hariri and Walid Jumblatt. The attempted
15 assassination was that message. Marwan Hamade is a close friend and ally
16 of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and he is also a close friend and an
17 important MP in the Walid Jumblatt bloc and part of the Progressive
18 Socialist Party. It was a clear message and both men considered it a
19 message addressed to them both. So from the moment Rafik Hariri came
20 back to Beirut after the attempted assassination of Marwan Hamade, he
21 acted as if that message was addressed to him.
22 Q. Did you ever have concerns for your own safety having regard for
23 your vote on the 2nd of September?
24 A. Those fears were based on the events after the attempted
25 assassination of Marwan and not the vote itself. It seems to me that
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1 many MPs took those fears very seriously and I was one of them. I cannot
2 claim that I received direct threats, but I received direct warnings,
3 among which a warning that I received from Walid Jumblatt who also
4 thought that I was a person close to him and close to Rafik Hariri. The
5 parties planning the assassinations monitor and target personalities like
6 Marwan Hamade and like me.
7 Once after the attempted assassination of Marwan, he sent me
8 someone in the evening, I mean by that Walid Jumblatt, who sent me a
9 person to my place in Bir-Hassan --
10 Q. Just before we get to that, could I ask you a more specific
11 question. Did you ever a conversation with Rustom Ghazaleh that caused
12 you to be concerned for your safety and caused you to speak to the Prime
13 Minister about it?
14 A. Yes. And as I said before, Walid Jumblatt sent me someone to
15 give me certain warnings. He asked me to focus on my personal security,
16 and I informed Prime Minister Hariri of what happened. It seems that
17 Walid Jumblatt had certain information so that Bassem El-Sabeh focuses on
18 his personal security. I did not feel any direct threat, I did not have
19 personal body-guards at my residence, and so I notified Mr. Hariri. And
20 even the Lebanese authorities, they sent me security close to my place,
21 in Bir-Hassan. And in one visit with Mr. Hariri to Damascus - and I'm
22 talking here about that specific incident - we passed by the new office
23 of Rustom Ghazaleh in Chtoura, so after he replaced Ghazi Kanaan there
24 was a new office for him in Chtoura area. It was -- it was during a
25 closed meeting with Mr. Rafik Hariri. Then we wanted to leave and he
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1 accompanied us outside to the street --
2 Q. Stop there. When did this occur, sir? Do you remember when this
3 occurred?
4 A. It was during the period between the attempted assassination of
5 Marwan Hamade and the assassination of Rafik Hariri.
6 Q. And am I correct in understanding that you and the Prime Minister
7 travelled to Chtoura, to Rustom Ghazaleh's office, to speak with
8 Brigadier-General Ghazaleh; is that correct?
9 A. Yes, it was correct, but not to talk about that specific topic.
10 We talked about it at the entrance of the residence when Rafik Hariri
11 told Rustom Ghazaleh, "Bassem is worried about his security." And I was
12 surprised to hear Rustom Ghazaleh say, "If any harm comes to my children,
13 Bassem then also would be harmed." I did not understand what he meant by
14 that because I did not accuse him of anything, but that was his answer.
15 The objective was to inform him that I am cautious regarding certain
16 information I'm receiving, and he was someone in charge of security in
17 the country.
18 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Was he referring to his own children, his
19 own sons and daughters, or was he using "children" in a metaphorical
20 sense, meaning you, Mr. Sabeh, was one of his children?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think that it was like a
22 metaphor. Of course I'm not like one of his children, and Mr. Hariri
23 also commented on this when I talked to him about it in the car. I asked
24 him, "Did you hear what Rustom said?" And he said, "Yes, that was
25 strange, but he considers you one of his children but he doesn't consider
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1 Marwan like that also."
2 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, have you finished with that
3 topic with Mr. Ghazaleh?
4 MR. CAMERON: I think I have, yes. Thank you.
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Can I just take you back, Mr. Sabeh, to an
6 answer you gave a few moments ago when you said:
7 "It was a clear message and both men considered it a message
8 addressed to them both," when you were referring to Mr. Hariri and
9 Mr. Jumblatt. I just wish you to clarify what you meant when you said
10 "both" -- no, no, just hang on. Where you said:
11 "Both men considered it a message addressed to them both."
12 Did you mean each of them singularly considered it to be
13 addressed to them in the singular, that is, Mr. Hariri considered it
14 addressed to him and Mr. Jumblatt considered it -- that it was addressed
15 to him, Mr. Jumblatt. Or alternatively, that both, Mr. Hariri and
16 Mr. Jumblatt, together, thought that it was addressed to both of them,
17 either collectively or individually?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The message was addressed to both
19 of them, together. The two, both of them, considered that that message
20 was addressed to the two of them.
21 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: The two of them acting collectively together
22 or the two of them as individuals?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The position, the political
24 position of Marwan Hamade is such that it indicates that he's someone who
25 has close political links to these two personalities, these two political
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1 figures, both Rafik Hariri and Walid Jumblatt. The attempted
2 assassination that targeted Marwan was a message conveyed or addressed to
3 the two of them together.
4 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Dr. Sabeh, do you mean by that
5 that it was a message addressed to each one of them regarding the
6 position of each one of them individually?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The position of each one of them --
8 the political position.
9 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Yes, of course.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, of course, with one minor
11 nuance, with the single distinction, which is that Marwan Hamade at a
12 certain political period, he was considered as one of the people who
13 worked on the adoption of Resolution 1559, and that resolution was under
14 the direct patronage of Rafik Hariri. Walid Jumblatt during that period
15 was not put in this category of people. Such accusations were not
16 addressed towards him. However, Rafik Hariri was being accused as one of
17 the people who were preparing for the resolution that was calling for the
18 withdrawal of Syrian army from Lebanon, and that Marwan Hamade and others
19 were working with Rafik Hariri on the adoption of this resolution,
20 towards the adoption of that resolution.
21 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Dr. Sabeh, perhaps the Prosecution
22 will get to that resolution later on, but I would like to understand
23 whether I understood you correctly or not. Did Prime Minister Hariri and
24 after the attempted assassination on Marwan Hamade, did he go to Syria?
25 Did he go to Syria at that stage?
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1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes. We visited Abdel-Halim
2 Khaddam.
3 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] Only?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Only. And we also met with
5 Rustom Ghazaleh.
6 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] And did Prime Minister Hariri talk
7 with Rustom Ghazaleh about the attempted assassination that targeted
8 Marwan Hamade and other topics related to that?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I suppose that he did, that yes,
10 they did discuss such matters. That was quite normal, to discuss that.
11 JUDGE BRAIDY: [Interpretation] And what was the reaction of
12 Brigadier-General Rustom Ghazaleh, did he deny that or not?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know. I don't have any
14 information or details about that. And -- but certainly, I'm sure that
15 he denied it.
16 MR. CAMERON:
17 Q. Still --
18 A. Allow me to say we all know at the time even Abdel-Halim Khaddam
19 went to Beirut to visit Marwan at hospital, and I was visiting Marwan
20 with Prime Minister Hariri, we were visiting him when Abdel-Halim Khaddam
21 arrived and came to visit him. Even Rustom Ghazaleh tried to visit him
22 at hospital. I think that he did pay him a visit, but I'm not going to
23 say -- he was met with some form of resentment when he went to pay a
24 visit to Marwan.
25 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Were you there? Did you witness this
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1 resentment -- [Arabic on English channel]
2 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I'll start again. Were you there when
3 Mr. Khaddam visited Mr. -- oh, I'm sorry, you said Mr. Ghazaleh. Were
4 you there when Mr. Ghazaleh went to visit Mr. Hamade and did you witness
5 the resentment you just referred to?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was not present myself, but this
7 is something that is well-known to everyone. It was discussed in -- on
8 more than one occasion.
9 MR. CAMERON:
10 Q. I'd like now to go to some images in respect of the second
11 Bristol Group meeting which occurred on the 13th of December, 2004, still
12 contained within Exhibit 365. If I could ask the clerk to advance the
13 frames to the time 39.40, please.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 MR. CAMERON: If you could play it from there, please.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 MR. CAMERON:
18 Q. So we see Mr. Jumblatt arrive with others, in different attire
19 than the first Bristol Group.
20 MR. CAMERON: And could you pause it there, please.
21 Q. Who's he sitting with there, please?
22 A. He is sitting with two MPs from the Democratic Gathering Bloc,
23 MP Nehmeh and MP Aoun.
24 Q. And this is the bloc of which Walid Jumblatt is the leader;
25 correct?
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1 A. Yes, that's right.
2 Q. Now, we'll return to another image of Mr. Jumblatt in a moment.
3 MR. CAMERON: But could we go to 40.31, please.
4 [Video-clip played]
5 MR. CAMERON: Stop it there, please.
6 Q. Do you recognize the gentlemen on the left as Ghattas Khoury,
7 Dr. Khoury?
8 A. Yes, this is Dr. Ghattas Khoury, yes.
9 Q. And do you recall whether the other members that were at the
10 first Bristol Group meeting who accompanied you that were aligned with
11 Prime Minister - that is, Antoine Andraos and Mohammed El-Hajjar - were
12 they also present at the second Bristol Group meeting, do you recall?
13 A. I think so, yes. I do believe so.
14 Q. And in addition we have Dr. Khoury present on the 13th of
15 December. What was the significance of Dr. Khoury's presence at the
16 second Bristol Group meeting?
17 A. The presence of Dr. Ghattas Khoury was an indication, an
18 additional indication, that Prime Minister Hariri was providing some kind
19 of a political umbrella and patronage or cover to the Bristol Group.
20 MR. CAMERON: And if we could go to 41.11.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. CAMERON:
23 Q. Again an image of Dr. Khoury shaking the hands of the presenters.
24 And if we just keep playing I think you will appear in a moment. There
25 you are at --
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1 MR. CAMERON: If we could stop it there. Perhaps -- there we go.
2 I'm sorry, I can't read the timing on mine.
3 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: 41.37. I didn't read it myself, the court
4 officer did.
5 MR. CAMERON: Thank you.
6 And now I'd like to go to 43.43, please.
7 [Video-clip played]
8 MR. CAMERON: Now just stopping there.
9 Q. That's Amine Gemayel to the right of -- on the right-hand side of
10 Walid Jumblatt, to the left in the picture; is that right?
11 A. That's right, that's right.
12 Q. Is it significant that Mr. Jumblatt has moved from where he was
13 to stand beside Amine Gemayel?
14 A. Would you mind repeating the question?
15 Q. Yes. Is it significant that Walid Jumblatt has chosen to stand
16 beside Amine Gemayel at the second Bristol Group meeting?
17 A. This -- this was not something usual during that stage, to see
18 Amine Gemayel and Walid Jumblatt in the same venue, at the same political
19 event. That was an event in itself because the Bristol meeting was one
20 form of national reconciliation. It was a mini national reconciliation.
21 The Bristol meeting saw a meeting between political parties from all the
22 Lebanese political spectrum, such as the -- for example, the Progressive
23 Socialist Party and the Phalangists who were at odds for a long period of
24 time and who were fighting for a long period of time. However, they met
25 at the Bristol meeting on new basis, new political basis that constituted
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1 the foundation for a new political era in Lebanon and for the return of
2 Prime Minister Hariri.
3 MR. CAMERON: If we could just play a little bit more as we go
4 along, please.
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron asked you whether there was any
6 significance in the two of them standing together there. Was it
7 coincidental or was it deliberately staged?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That meeting was not a coincidence
9 at all. It was a meeting that had been decided, it was decided by the
10 various political groups who were represented in it and it was something
11 that was planned in advance.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Maybe something was lost in the translation
13 or the interpretation. We're just talking about two of them being
14 together, that is, walking or standing together, Mr. Gemayel and
15 Mr. Jumblatt. Was it coincidental? We know the meeting was planned, but
16 was the two of them being together like that coincidental or was it
17 staged, that they should be seen doing something together? Or did it
18 just happen because they happened to be at the same meeting together?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I believe that seeing them standing
20 there side by side was because the national anthem was being played, that
21 was the opening of the meeting.
22 MR. CAMERON: Could we play a little more of the tape, please,
23 and continue along until I ask for it to stop, Mr. Clerk.
24 [Video-clip played]
25 MR. CAMERON:
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1 Q. Now, following the national anthem, they sit together, do they
2 not? You will see in a moment. There.
3 MR. CAMERON: Stop it there, please. A little bit further so we
4 can see them both together.
5 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Are they in the front row, Mr. Cameron?
6 MR. CAMERON: They're in the front row.
7 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Seated together?
8 MR. CAMERON: Can we stop it there, please.
9 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: You're going to ask about the significance
10 of them seated in the front row together, side by side?
11 MR. CAMERON: Yes, I am. And --
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: That's what we're getting at, Mr. El-Sabeh.
13 MR. CAMERON:
14 Q. May I ask you this, Mr. El-Sabeh: Both are well-respected
15 figures in Lebanon in this period in their own communities; correct?
16 A. Yes, right.
17 Q. And they're both authoritative figures within their own
18 communities; correct?
19 A. Yes, right again.
20 Q. And I guess either one of -- either Mr. Gemayel or Mr. Jumblatt
21 could have sat wherever they wanted to sit in this meeting, couldn't
22 they?
23 A. Yes, possible.
24 Q. But they chose to sit beside each other and to converse during
25 the course of the Bristol Group meeting. My question and the question of
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1 the Presiding Judge is: Did that have any symbolic significance or was
2 it just happenstance that they sat together? Did they wish to convey a
3 message?
4 A. There was a working group which prepared for that meeting and
5 decided who will be sitting in the front rows. That working group
6 decided that President Amine Gemayel and Minister Walid Jumblatt should
7 sit next to each other. It also decided that other political figures,
8 heads of political parties and MPs as well as influential figures in
9 Qornet-Chehwan should sit in the front rows. So it's normal, especially
10 with regards to protocol, that a former president of the republic sits
11 next an influential leader like Walid Jumblatt.
12 The image itself is very expressive because, at the time,
13 President Amine Gemayel and his son, late Pierre Gemayel, were major
14 Christian political personalities in Lebanon, were among the main
15 Christian political personalities in Lebanon in the opposition and we had
16 other Christian politicians who were not well-known in Lebanon. We all
17 know that the Bristol Group included personalities of the different
18 political factions and among the most important personalities, especially
19 among the Christian factions and Maronite faction, was Mr. Amine Gemayel
20 because General Michel Aoun at the time was in Paris and Dr. Samir Geagea
21 was imprisoned in Yarzeh, in the Yarzeh prison.
22 Q. Among the various groups that came to the first Bristol Group
23 meeting and the second Bristol Group meeting, were there divergent
24 political and social views amongst the groups or were they all roughly of
25 the same homogenous set of ideas? Did they disagree in general terms or
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1 were they all in agreement in general terms? Can you describe coming in
2 to the Bristol Group how they differed or how they were similar?
3 A. The Bristol Group was formed to agree on common points. That
4 meant that we had main political figures in Lebanon establishing a strong
5 opposition against the Syrian presence in Lebanon, requesting a strong
6 real democratic parliamentary system, and rejecting the Lebanese-Syrian
7 security apparatus. That group of people agreed on political issues and
8 it's possible that the political parties disagree on certain details that
9 are political, social, or economic. But the main basis of the Bristol
10 Group was, first, rejecting the extension; two, defend the democratic
11 freedoms at the time; and three, protecting the constitution according to
12 the slogan of the Bristol Group: Defending the freedoms and protecting
13 the constitution. At the time the main issue was political freedoms in
14 the country and the group met together to call for the protection of
15 political freedoms in Lebanon and for reorganizing the Syrian presence in
16 the country. It called for a way to organize the withdrawal of the
17 Syrian presence from Lebanon according to the Taif Agreement.
18 MR. CAMERON: If I could next take the witness to the document,
19 it's a press release that appears at 28 in the Arabic and 29 on the
20 Prosecution's presentation queue. It's a press release that was entered
21 as Exhibit P303. It's dated December the 14th, 2004, the heading is: "I
22 understood from the Bristol meeting that the opposition endorses the Taif
23 Agreement," and the ERN range is D0004868 to D0004876.
24 Q. If I could take you to that press release now, Mr. Sabeh, and to
25 the first three paragraphs, which begin the following way:
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1 "Former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri stressed that Lebanon and
2 Syria are both facing challenges that can only be confronted with
3 solidarity between the two countries. This means opposition and
4 loyalists. He said that 'we all need to address the looming risks
5 through unity.'"
6 The second paragraph:
7 "He believes that 'the current internal disputes do not serve
8 Lebanon's interest and they should be put down.'
9 "'I understood from the discussions raised during the Bristol
10 meeting that everybody was supporting the Taif Agreement.' He clarified
11 that the Parliamentary Elections next year are decisive and essential.
12 He affirmed that MP Jumblatt is his ally and brother, 'we have gone
13 together through a long way, for nearly 25 years.' He denied that the
14 relation with Jumblatt has frozen saying: 'Our path is constantly the
15 same.'"
16 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. Cameron, just for the record, press
17 release is headed: "Dubai, December 14, 2004," the last page makes it
18 appear that it was published in Al-Mustaqbal Newspaper on Thursday,
19 December 16, 2004. Is that your understanding?
20 MR. CAMERON: Yes, thank you. That's correct.
21 Q. Was it your understanding in your discussions with the Prime
22 Minister, which you indicated previously were almost every day, that he
23 followed the activities of the Bristol Group meeting?
24 A. Yes, of course, he followed the activities of the Bristol Group
25 and he heard all the details from me and others, and I think that that
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1 statement shows a Hariri type of support to the Bristol Group. That is
2 how he approached things, very smoothly and calmly.
3 Q. And was it your understanding from attending at least the first
4 two meetings - and then as we'll see the third - that is the basis that
5 the Bristol Group was adopting for the departure of the Syrian troops was
6 the Taif Accord?
7 A. Yes, and I already mentioned that.
8 Q. Well, were there any members of the Bristol Group who favoured
9 Resolution 1559 over the Taif Accord?
10 A. That might be true, but the general framework of the Bristol
11 Group and the political positions of the different factions, including
12 the Bkirki patriarch, consider that the Taif Agreement was the main basis
13 to deal with the Syrian presence in Lebanon. Another document was
14 mentioned and it was the paper prepared by the Democratic Gathering, it
15 was a long paper mentioning for the first time the redeployment of the
16 Syrian forces in Lebanon according to the Taif Agreement. And I am
17 saying for the first time because the Democratic Gathering presided by
18 Walid Jumblatt dealt with this matter in a very responsible way. It
19 found a certain approach for the Syrian presence in Lebanon that is in
20 conformity with the Taif Agreement and in the interests of Lebanon,
21 organizing a redeployment of the Syrian forces to the Beqaa and then its
22 withdrawal from Lebanon. That was a main step for freeing Lebanon from
23 the Lebanese and Syrian security apparatus.
24 MR. CAMERON: I'd like next to take the witness to another press
25 release that's found at positions 30 in the Arabic and 31 in the English
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1 on the presentation queue of the Prosecution. It's a press release the
2 title says: "Beirut on January 31, 2005," and the last page of the
3 document reflects its publication in Al-Mustaqbal Newspaper on Tuesday,
4 the 1st of February, 2005. It was introduced again as Exhibit P303, and
5 the ERN range is D0004951 to D0004955.
6 Q. One of the three headings in the middle is:
7 "Hariri announces he will run the election from the 'toughest
8 Electoral Constituency' in Beirut."
9 Now, just before I go too much further, I'd like to read the
10 first paragraph of this press release.
11 "The announcement of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, after his visit
12 to the Vice-President of the Higher Islamic Shiite Council Sheikh Abdul
13 Amir Kabalan, that he is going to run for election from the 'toughest
14 circle' in Beirut has drawn the attention ..."
15 Do you know what he's talking about and did you have discussions
16 with the Prime Minister about where precisely he would run in Beirut?
17 A. The toughest constituency in Beirut according to Mr. Rafik Hariri
18 was the constituency where there is a majority of Shias. It was
19 described as the toughest constituency because that majority may not
20 support Rafik Hariri. It's actually a mixed constituency that includes
21 Christians and Muslims, Sunnis and Shias, in addition to the Christians.
22 When he heard that Beirut was to be divided into certain constituencies
23 that do not go hand in hand with his vision of the elections in Beirut,
24 he said, "I will run as a candidate from the toughest constituency. So
25 if they want an electoral law tailored for certain political factions, I
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1 will run as a candidate in the toughest constituency where we have a
2 majority of Shias and I will still win."
3 Q. You were by this time a veteran of the electoral wars, you had
4 run in four -- were about to win your fourth electoral campaign, first in
5 1992 and then the following. Did you tell the Prime Minister: This
6 isn't such a good idea, that maybe you shouldn't do this; run in a safer
7 seat?
8 A. I believe it was a way he used as a political manoeuvre or maybe
9 as part of the political confrontation at the time. Running as a
10 candidate in that constituency would have been difficult during that
11 period, but his victory would not have been impossible. If he ran as
12 candidate in that constituency during that period, I think he would have
13 won. He may have lost other seats, but personally he would have won
14 during the elections. And I am saying that because his influence within
15 the Shia community at the time was strong. The Shias were not hostile
16 against Rafik Hariri as some would think. I'm talking about that
17 specific period.
18 MR. CAMERON: And if we can now go back to the video at P365
19 which is found at position 7 on the queue. If we could go to the --
20 28 seconds into the video or so.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. CAMERON: Stop it there, please.
23 Q. We see Minister Fuleihan in the middle of those two gentlemen.
24 MR. CAMERON: Maybe carry on a little bit.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mr. Henri Helou and Antoine
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1 Andraos.
2 MR. CAMERON: Stop it there.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is Antoine Andraos.
4 MR. CAMERON:
5 Q. And is this the first time in your recollection that Bassel
6 Fuleihan appeared at the Bristol Group meeting?
7 A. I think so, I think so.
8 Q. This has been identified as a Bristol Group meeting occurring on
9 the 1st -- 2nd of February, 2005. What was the significance of Bassel
10 Fuleihan over and above the others who you've mentioned before? Was
11 there any added significance to Bassel Fuleihan attending the meeting?
12 A. Everyone dealt with the presence of Bassel Fuleihan as a -- as
13 one of particular significance because Bassel came to this meeting upon a
14 direct decision made by Rafik Hariri. I know that very well. Prime
15 Minister Hariri wanted to say that the MPs of the Beirut Decision Bloc
16 will be found one by one, one after the other, at the Bristol meeting.
17 After Ghattas Khoury and Ahmad Fatfat and Mohammed Hajjar, there goes
18 Bassel Fuleihan also attending those meetings.
19 MR. CAMERON: I'd like now to address an article that appeared at
20 positions 22 in the Arabic and 23 in the English on the Prosecution's
21 presentation queue. It's an article dated the 3rd of February from
22 Al-Mustaqbal regarding the recounting of the Bristol III meeting. This
23 was an article that was referred to in passing during the course of
24 Dr. Khoury's evidence by counsel. It is not presently on the Rule 91
25 list of exhibits, and I inquired of my friends in writing last week
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1 whether they considered it necessary for me to bring a formal motion to
2 have it placed on the Rule 91 list. I heard from counsel quite fairly
3 for Mr. Badreddine and Sabra, who indicated that they were content that
4 it be offered through Mr. Sabeh without a motion to add it to the
5 91 list. Not sure of the position of the other counsel, but having
6 regard to its nature, I'd like to ask that it be given an exhibit number
7 at this stage in the absence of any objection.
8 The ERN number for the article is D0429677 to D0429683. And it's
9 entitled: "Bristol-3: 'Full withdrawal according to Taif guarantees an
10 honourable settlement to Syria.'"
11 It's at page -- position 22 in the Arabic and 23 in the English.
12 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: All right. In the absence of any objection
13 that will be Exhibit P407. Mr. Cameron, I'm just looking at the time.
14 Can we deal with the exhibit tomorrow, please?
15 MR. CAMERON: Yes, of course.
16 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Mr. El-Sabeh, that brings us to the end of
17 today's proceedings. We thank you for your co-operation and your
18 evidence. We will resume again at 10.00 tomorrow morning. Can I just
19 ask you, as I do with all other witnesses, please don't discuss your
20 evidence with anyone else before you come back to court tomorrow morning.
21 And unless there is anything else - there appears not to be - the court
22 will rise until Tuesday.
23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.47 p.m. 24
25
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