Volume III Friday No. 20 20th October, 1961

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

OFFICIAL REPORT CONTENTS

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE (MOTION) [Col. 2027] HOURS OF SITTING OF THE HOUSE (EXEMPTED BUSINESS) (MOTION) [Col. 2028] BILLS— The Education Bill [Col. 2029] The University of Malaya Bill [Col. 2127] The Consolidated Fund (Expenditure on Account) Bill [Col. 2145] The Parliament (Members' Remuneration) (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2149] The Corporation Duty Ordinance (Repeal) Bill [Col. 2160] The Local Councils (Amendment) Bill [Col. 2161] The Life Assurance Bill [Col. 2162] The Local Government Elections (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill [Col. 2169] The Rubber Export Duty (Penang) Bill [Col. 2170] MOTIONS— The Customs Duties Order, 1961 (Statute Paper No. 41 of 1961) [Col. 2181] The Customs Duties (Amendment) (No. 2) Order, 1961 (Statute Paper No. 42 of 1961) [Col. 2184] The Income Tax Ordinance, 1947—Amendment to First Schedule. (The Federation of Family Planning Associations and affiliated State Family Planning Associations) [Col. 2187] The Income Tax Ordinance, 1947—Amendment to First Schedule. (The Football Association of Malaya) [Col. 2189]

DI-TERBITKAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG PEMANGKU PENCHETAK KERAJAAN PERSEKUTUAN TANAH MELAYU 1962 FEDERATION OF MALAYA

DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

Official Report

Vol. Ill Third Session of the First Dewan Ra'ayat No. 20

Friday, 20th October, 1961 The House met at half-past Nine o'clock a.m.

PRESENT: The Honourable Mr. Speaker, DATO' HAJI MOHAMED NOAH BIN OMAR, S.P.M.J., D.P.M.B., P.I.S., J.P. the Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs, Y.T.M. TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M. (Kuala Kedah). the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Minister of Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N. (Pekan). the Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior, DATO' DR. ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N. (Johor Timor). the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah). the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N. (Sungai Siput). the Minister of Transport, DATO' SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N. (Pontian Utara). the Minister of Health and Social Welfare, DATO' ONG YOKE LIN, P.M.N. (Ulu Selangor). the Minister of Commerce and Industry, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR BIN JOHARI (Kedah Tengah). the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah). the Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB (Kuantan). the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang). the Assistant Minister of Rural Development, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara). the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, ENCHE' CHEAH THEAM SWEE (Bukit Bintang). the Assistant Minister of the Interior, ENCHE' MOHAMED ISMAIL BIN MOHAMED YUSOF (Jerai). 2023 20 OCTOBER 1961 2024

The Honourable ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N. (Melaka Utara). ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN (Krian Laut). ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN OSMAN (Sungai Patani). TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI ABDUL RAOF (Kuala Kangsar). TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD. SALLEH, A.M.N., P.I.S. (Segamat Utara). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kota Bharu Hilir). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N. (Muar Utara). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN MOHAMED SHAH, S.M.J. (Johor Bharu Barat). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang Utara). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN HAJI YUSOF, P.J.K. (Krian Darat). TUAN HAJI AZAHARI BIN HAJI IBRAHIM (Kubang Pasu Barat). ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam). DR. BURHANUDDIN BIN MOHD. NOOR (Besut). ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N. (Kluang Selatan). ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong). ENCHE' CHAN SWEE HO (Ulu Kinta). ENCHE' CHAN YOON ONN (Kampar). ENCHE' CHIN SEE YIN (Seremban Timor). ENCHE' V. DAVID (Bungsar). DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N. (Jitra-Padang Terap). ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT (Penang Utara). ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N. (Kapar). ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD. YUNUS, A.M.N. (Kulim Utara). ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Baling). ENCHE' HARUN BIN PILUS (Trengganu Tengah). TUAN HAJI HASAN ADLI BIN HAJI ARSHAD (Kuala Trengganu Utara). TUAN HAJI HASSAN BIN HAJI AHMAD (Tumpat). ENCHE' HASSAN BIN MANSOR (Melaka Selatan). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN (Raub). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD. NOORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Parit). TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu). ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan). ENCHE' KANG KOCK SENG (Batu Pahat). ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara). CHE' KHADIJAH BINTI MOHD. SIDEK (Dungun). ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON (Kluang Utara). ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim). ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N. (Sepang). ENCHE' LIM JOO KONG (Alor Star). ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat). ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang). ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson). ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu-Jempol). 2025 20 OCTOBER 1961 2026

The Honourable ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak). ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh). ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAJI MOHD. ALI (Kuala Selangor). ENCHE' MOHAMED NOR BIN MOHD. DAHAN (Ulu Perak). DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K. (Pasir Mas Hulu). ENCHE' MOHAMED SULONG BIN MOHD. ALI, J.M.N. (Lipis). ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N. (Temerloh). TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan). NIK MAN BIN NIK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir). ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu). ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah). ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Perlis Utara). ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat). TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD. SAID (Rembau-Tampin). ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai). ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh). ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu). TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Batu Pahat Dalam). TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SYED AJAM, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Sabak Bernam). TUAN SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, J.M.N. (Johor Tenggara). ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K. (Larut Utara). ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan). ENCHE' TAN PHOCK KIN (Tanjong). ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim-Bandar Bahru). TENGKU BESAR INDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N. (Ulu Kelantan). ENCHE' TOO JOON HING (Telok Anson). ENCHE' V. VEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan). WAN SULAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K. (Kota Star Selatan). WAN YAHYA BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED (Kemaman). ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD (Bagan Datoh). ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas). ENCHE' YONG WOO MING (Sitiawan). PUAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S. (Pontian Selatan). TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD. TAIB (Langat).

ABSENT: The Honourable DATO' SULEIMAN BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N. (Minister without Portfolio) (Muar Selatan) (On leave). the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' ABDUL AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Kuala Langat). the Assistant Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKA- VASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K. (Klang). 2027 20 OCTOBER 1961 2028

The Honourable ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAN (Setapak). ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah). ENCHE' KHONG KOK YAT (Batu Gajah). DR. LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan). DATO' ONN BIN JA'AFAR, D.K., D.P.M.J. (Kuala Trengganu Selatan). ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka). DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P. (Segamat Selatan). WAN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALI (Kelantan Hilir). ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok).

IN ATTENDANCE: The Honourable the Minister of Justice, TUN LEONG YEW KOH, S.M.N.

PRAYERS Resolved, That at its rising this day the House do (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) stand adjourned sine die. Mr. Speaker: Honourable Members, last night when I put the question to HOURS OF SITTING OF THE the House to adjourn I noticed some HOUSE (EXEMPTED BUSINESS) hesitancy or disinclination on the part of Members to disperse. I repeated the (MOTION) question at that time due to the fact that Honourable Members were Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I beg to move, naturally indisposed to adjourn the sitting of the House because of the great That the resolution of the House amount of business still unfinished. adopted on the 16th October, 1961, However, I have since been informed relative to the times of present sittings that probably the confusion has arisen of the meeting of the House shall not because the question was put by me in apply to this day's sitting, and that the House shall not adjourn until all Govern­ an erroneous form, and I am sorry for ment business on the Order Paper for that. I should add that the procedure this day has been disposed of. followed by me is laid down in S.O. 17 (4). In any event, all Sir, to-day is the last sitting of the Honourable Members will, I think, present meeting of the House, and as have ample opportunity to prove their it will be apparent from the Order diligence to-day. Paper that there is still much Govern­ ment business which must be dealt ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE with by the House before it is adjourned sine die, it is therefore imperative under (MOTION) the circumstances that the House sit The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun throughout the whole of this afternoon Haji Abdul Razak bin Dato' Hussain): and to-night also, if necessary, in order that all Government business shall be Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, disposed before the House adjourns. That at its rising this day the House do Now, to enable us to do this, I move stand adjourned sine die. the above motion under Standing Order 12 (1). The Minister of Transport (Dato' Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Sir, I beg to Dato' Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Sir, I second the motion. beg to second the motion. Question put, and agreed to. Question put, and agreed to. 2029 20 OCTOBER 1961 2030

Resolved, could do anything in any case where That the resolution of the House a man has been sentenced to a term adopted on the 16th October, 1961, of imprisonment—and that too without relative to the times of present sittings consultation, as he is not required by of the meeting of the House shall not apply to this day's sitting, and that the law to consult anybody before House shall not adjourn until all Govern­ exercising that discretion. I fully realise ment business on the Order Paper for that there may be difficulties in giving this day has been disposed of. very specific and clear definitions in Mr. Speaker: Honourable Members, a matter of this nature, but we certainly I propose to sit this morning till 12 would require some amplification noon, and then suspend the sitting and clarification from the Honourable till half-past-two and resume at half- the Minister of Education as to what past-two continuing till half-past-six is meant by para, (e), "has been con­ in the evening; and if the Govern­ victed, in the Federation or elsewhere, ment business is still not finished of an offence and sentenced to a term then, I propose to continue from of imprisonment". A man driving a 8.30 p.m. to-night till the whole of the motor car without insurance cover can Government business is disposed of. be sentenced to imprisonment: is it the intention of this Government to deprive such a person, or refuse to BILLS register such a person as a teacher in THE EDUCATION BILL this country? A man committing some Second Reading minor traffic offence may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment: is it the Order read for resumption of intention of the Government to debate on Question, "That the Bill deprive such a person of his right to be now read a second time". be a teacher, or is it the intention of (19th October, 1961). the Government to confine this section Question again proposed. to moral criminals and not statutory Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): criminals? We must seek clarification on this point because it is important; Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the short­ where power is arbitrary, that power age of time, if I may say so, and to might be misused, and we would keep the proceedings as short as require a very clear guarantee, if I possible and also to do justice in this may use the word, that this power debate, I undertake not to try to reply will not be misused. What has the to the observations made by other Minister in his mind, or what instruc­ Members—and I hope that the back tions would he give to the Registrar benchers of the Government will adopt on this particular Clause? this course and make their observations to enable a reply. That will shorten Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now move to the the debate on this matter. next important Clause—Clause 99 (2)— Sir, yesterday I was speaking on dealing with the inspectorate of Clause 77 (e) and I made the comment schools. Under this proposed Bill, an that the words "convicted by a court" inspectorate of schools or local had been left out; the Clause goes on inspectorate will be set up. The to say "and sentenced to a term of purpose of that inspectorate would be imprisonment". Therefore, the deletion to visit schools, keep an eye on them, of those words by themselves may and make regular reports to the not mean anything, because only a Minister of Education. Clause 99 is a court of competent jurisdiction can section which purports to give power to sentence anybody to a term of the Chief Inspector to send a report to imprisonment. But I do complain on a the Minister on every school or educa­ matter of principle in relation to tional institution inspected pursuant to Clause 77 (e) in that it is so vague, the provisions of Clause 96. What is to so dangerously vague, that the be done with this report? What is the Minister or the Registrar of Teachers purpose of such a report? Obviously, 2031 20 OCTOBER 1961 2032

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the purpose of a it in respect of the registration of report on a school is for the Minister schools, registration of teachers and to see whether there are any grounds similar other matters, that wherever an for acting under other provisions applicant is refused registration, or the contained in this Bill relating to the registration is cancelled, for example, registration of schools. In other words, of a teacher, he is given the right to if an adverse report is sent, then the appeal. But the right to appeal to Minister may consider whether the whom? To the Minister of Education. registration of such a school should Sir, the Minister of Education does not not properly be cancelled or for deal with that appeal himself under further restrictions or conditions placed the proposed Bill. He has to appoint upon the registration of such a school. a committee of three persons to deal It is surprising indeed that Clause 99 with such an appeal. Now, it is not (2) makes such a report a confidential necessary for me to say that that document, and as such it will not be procedure, adopted in this country, is supplied to anybody, unless the a most unsatisfactory procedure. It is Minister in his discretion thinks that most unsatisfactory in the case of other it should be made available to any Ordinances such as the Prevention of person in this country. Mr. Speaker, Crimes, Citizenship and, now, Educa­ Sir, I would say that that is a most tion. It is unsatisfactory, because the unfair and most dangerous Clause, persons who sit on these committees because a report which is adverse, say, are by and large persons with political on a private school—which has also inclinations; that cannot, perhaps, be to be registered as a school in this helped because everybody to some country—may result in the cancellation extent is a politician in one way or of the registration of that school. Sir, I another, but I find that the tendency would like to pose this question: is it is for members of these boards or not fair and just that by law that committees to consist in the major report, or the substance of the report, portion of active politicians—that is the should as a matter of right be way in which the greatest danger lies. made available to the Managers or Mr. Speaker, Sir, that difficulty should Governors, or the responsible persons have been foreseen by the Minister of of that school? If you do not have Education, when this Bill was presented such a statutory provision, then again to this House, because on more than there is room for misuse and abuse of one occasion complaints have been Clause 99 of the Education Bill. made by members of the Opposition Therefore, I would ask the Minister to sitting on this side of the House that seriously consider at the appropriate such a procedure has been most stage proposing some amendment to unsatisfactory, most disliked by the made it mandatory that at least the public of this country. Now, the proper substance of an adverse report on course would have been to give a which action is contemplated should person the right of appeal to a judicial be made available to the particular tribunal—and why that was not done, person against whom action is to be I cannot understand; or, if it was to be taken; and that safeguard should be a Commissioner of Enquiry, it could by statutory law, and should not be at have been one man, a judicial officer— the discretion of even the Minister of and in all these cases of enquiries, the Education; otherwise it opens the door, President of Enquiry should also always although the action taken by the be a judicial officer, but the decisions Minister may be proper, to very great or recommendation are to be majority criticisms because nobody would know recommendations. why such action is taken; if somebody knows why action is taken then the Mr. Speaker, Sir, those are facts criticisms would be kept to its lowest which by themselves may not convey limits. very much, but read in conjunction Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find throughout with the intention of this Bill it the Education Bill, in various parts of conveys a great deal. It conveys the 2033 20 OCTOBER 1961 2034 fact that a teacher in a school will be that Chinese and Tamil could be learnt a person in constant fear that he may in primary classes by everybody and lose his registration certificate, in there was no hindrance to them. Now, constant fear that he may be victimised is that a true picture of the educational for political views, that he may be policy? I say it is not a true picture, victimised if he dares to venture to and it can be proved by looking at the criticise any policy of this Govern­ provisions in the proposed Bill dealing ment—and I do not think it is a good with primary schools. Under the Bill, thing for education if teachers are put the intention of the Government is in constant fear or in constant anxiety important, and in every Bill which and we must do something to remove becomes law, its construction must be the basis for that anxiety, which in accordance with the intention of the obviously exists under this proposed legislature. Now, what is the intention Bill. As I said yesterday, primary of the Rahman Talib Report and what education was not going to be free and is the intention of this Bill which has that it was proposed to get more come before this House? Is it the revenue for educational purposes by intention of this Government, and the imposition of an education rate. indeed of this Bill, when it becomes I would like to put a number of ques­ law, to protect and preserve the study tions to the Honourable Minister and of languages other than Malay in I hope these will be answered in the primary schools? If it is so, then there course of this debate. Does the would have been no difficulty in Honourable Minister realise that in making that intention clear in this Bill. different local authorities there are But, let us look and see what the Bill different modes of assessing properties, says. We must refer to Clauses 19, 20 that in different local authorities and 21—there we will get a clear different valuations are placed on picture. properties? Does the Honourable Minister realise that there is no "Statutory Education System. valuation of properties in rural and Chapter I—Stages of Education: kampong areas as we know it? Now, (a) Primary education how is the Honourable Minister going to lay down a fair basis for this (b) Secondary education proposed rate? Is it proposed to place (c) Education in institutions of a a valuation on rural areas and make higher nature." the rural folk bear an equal burden for Now, primary education is divided into the education of the children of this two types—National Primary Schools country? Or is it proposed that the and National-type Primary Schools. In townsfolk should bear the burden for National Primary Schools, the medium education not only of the townsfolk of instruction is Malay, a compulsory but also of the rural areas of this medium of instruction. In National- country? That becomes a most type Primary Schools, what does it say? important question because, if persons You look at the definition and you are asked to bear the burden of will find: education, that burden must be fairly and squarely distributed; if it is not "A National-type Primary School done, then it is prejudicial, unfair and means a fully assisted primary unjust that only sections should bear school: the additional burden of education all (a) providing a six-year course of round. primary education ; Mr. Speaker, Sir, throughout the (b) using the English, Chinese or time when the Rahman Talib Report Tamil language as the main was published up to date, one of the medium of instruction; strongest points made by the Alliance (c) in which the National language was that primary schools were of such is a compulsory subject of a build-up under the proposed policy instruction; 2035 20 OCTOBER 1961 2036

(d) in which the English language the intention, I hope- the Honourable is, if not the main medium of Minister can tell us the purpose of instruction, a compulsory Clause 21 in the Education Bill. Mr. subject of instruction; Speaker, Sir, therefore I say that the (e) in which facilities for the teach­ propaganda carried out over Radio ing of the Chinese or Tamil Malaya, carried on the public platform language, if not the main of the Alliance organisation in this medium of instruction, shall, country, carried out in this leaflet if it is reasonable and practic­ "Digest of Education Policy of the able so to do, be made Federation of Malaya" is false as the available if the parents of 15 propaganda could not be substantiated children of the school so by the law which the Alliance request." proposes to introduce in this country. It is significant in this pamphlet the Mr. Speaker, Sir, if it had stopped Government has thought it fit or at Clauses 19 and 20, perhaps there necessary to use the Tamil language, would be sufficient ground to say, the Malay language, the English "Yes, they have a right to learn language and the Chinese language to Chinese and Tamil, or even, if they describe the word "school", and yet want, to have them as the media of when the people ask that these instruction in primary assisted schools". languages have their proper place, the But the intention of the Government, Government is not prepared to do. the sinister, the cunning intention of the Government, is clear when we Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now come to come to Clause 21. Clause 21 is an the question of the education policy over-riding clause which I say is the itself as shown in this Bill. Now, this killing clause—the killing clause of policy is of the utmost importance, and other languages to be taught in the what happens in this House in the next schools. It is a clause which makes the few hours will lay down the basis for Minister of Education almighty and it the future of this nation. From the reads like this: time of the Razak Education Report until the Rahman Talib Report came "(1) The Minister, may, subject to the out, and up to this date, opinions from provisions of this Act, establish national primary schools and national-type primary diverse sections, from diverse organisa­ schools and shall, subject to such tions, have been expressed on what provisions, maintain all such schools. should be the proper education policy (2) Where at any time the Minister is for the children of this nation. satisfied that a national-type primary Despite unjust accusations, threats by school may suitably be converted into a the Government, shouts of disloyalty, national primary school he may by order shouts of communism, they struggle to direct that the school shall become a national primary school." convince by democratic means the elected Government of this country, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister of elected by the people of this country; Education is almighty under Clause 21 and having a mandate from the people and can, with a stroke of his pen, of this country, they continue unabated, convert any National-type Primary without fear, to try to convince the School into a National Primary School. Government that this policy is not Now, what is the intention, what is acceptable to the people of this country the purpose of Clause 21, taken in as a whole—now, I emphasise to the conjunction, to declare the policy of people of this country as a whole. the Alliance Government that Malay However, it is quite clear that whatever shall be the only language of this representations have been made, that country? The purpose of Clause 21 is whatever we may say from this side of to kill slowly, steadily, systematically this House, the mind of the Alliance the existence of even primary schools Government has been made up that where the medium of instruction is not nothing is going to change at this the National language. If that is not stage. Therefore, I am not going to 2037 20 OCTOBER 1961 2038 suggest a reference back—although I However, it is quite clear that the support very strongly the suggestions Razak Policy foresaw one very made by the Honourable Member for important matter and it put down in Telok Anson—because I think it is a writing in Article 70 of the Report. waste of time. If the Government had Reading Article 71 of the Report any intention of doing so, they would dealing with the question of languages have done so before this meeting. in secondary schools—it has been read before—it says: — Now, during the course of the debate on merger, the Honourable the "In these Secondary Schools we recommend that the study of the Malayan Minister of the Interior and Internal national language and of the English Security said that "so long as the language shall be compulsory. The Alliance is in power, Malay shall be reason for the study of Malay is the the only language in this country" or intention, referred to in our terms of words which convey that meaning. reference, to make Malay the national Well, I am glad that it has been put language of the country. The reason for specifically, clearly, to the people of teaching English is that we desire that no secondary school pupil shall be at a this country, as indeed it has been disadvantage in the matter either of done many times. An observation has employment or of higher education in been made that those who are asking Malaya or overseas as long as it is for multi-lingualism and other rights, necessary to use the English language for which we think we should have, are these purposes." wasting their time and talking nonsense Further, paragraph 72 says: — and that we could not do it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to assure the "We consider that there should be some flexibility in our secondary school system Honourable the Minister of the Interior as suggested in paragraph 70 above. For that time will show whether we can example, we can see no reason for alter­ win this struggle or that we cannot win ing the practice in Chinese secondary this struggle. But I assure the schools of using Kuo Yu as a general Honourable Minister that this struggle medium provided that these Chinese will be a peaceful, democratic, struggle schools fall into line with the conditions mentioned in the previous two paragraphs. in accordance with the Constitution of We see no educational objection"—I this country, in accordance with the emphasise 'we see no educational objec­ laws of this land. I also assure the tion'—to the learning of three languages Minister that we have the energy, we in secondary schools or to the use of have the strength, we have the staying more than one language in the same power, we have the resources to carry school as the medium of instruction." on the struggle for years, for genera­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Razak Report tions; if not in our generation, in the had in mind the intention to make generations to come this will become a Malay the National language. The reality in this land, because as a reality, Razak Report had in mind the it will be a democracy, and until that is necessity for building up a united attained, I assure the Minister that the Malayan people, and yet the Razak citizens will carry on that struggle Report says that it can see no reason whether the Minister likes it or not. for altering the practice of using Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Razak Educa­ Chinese or Mandarin and Tamil in tion Policy brought forth a lot of secondary schools of a vernacular comments. The People's Progressive nature in this country. If that Report Party of Malaya have never accepted had those things in mind and it the Razak Policy as a suitable founda­ proposed that there was no reason to tion for an Education Ordinance of this change that system, then I ask, if the country. We did not accept it for same objects are in the minds of this various reasons, the most important House to-day, were in the minds of being that it was vague to the extent the Rahman Talib Committee of of being able to be misconstrued by Review, why then is it necessary to those charged with the responsibility of change what was recommended in the putting into effect the Razak Policy. Razak Report when conditions are, 2039 20 OCTOBER 1961 2040

perhaps, the same, when the intentions Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have here a and the purposes of the Government leaflet with a cartoon captioned, are the same—to make Malay as the "Unaided Private Chinese Secondary national language, to build a united Schools"—Chapter 9, Page 15—which nation of Malayan people, to carry on shows a person struggling under the the educational system in this country. burdens of, "Reduction in Teachers' If the Razak Report said that it can Salaries," "Heavier Burden for School be done, I wonder why the Rahman Directors," "Public to make increased Talib Report says it cannot—because contributions" and "Increase in School that is what it comes to. The Fees." Then you have "National-type Honourable Minister in moving the Secondary School," "Full Government Bill suggested that there was no Aid," snowing a man sitting very fundamental change between the Razak happily on a very comfortable chair. Report and the present Report, and The Honourable Minister has said, the Bill which we are now considering. and Members of this House have also But is that not a fundamental change? said, that many of the Chinese Is it not a fundamental change so far Secondary Schools are now accepting as Chinese and Tamil as mediums of Government aid; and the Honourable instruction in schools are concerned? Member from Seberang Utara Surely that is a fundamental change suggested that it was true that this from the Razak Report. Then I ask, policy was acceptable to those schools. why try to mislead the people by He asked why the Honourable Member saying that there is no fundamental for Telok Anson was trying to say that change when there is such a glaring the people are not accepting the policy. fundamental change? Mr. Speaker, Sir, the people of this country accept internal security, not Mr. Speaker, Sir, schools in this because they like it but because they country have existed for many years, have to obey. Certain schools have to some built by Government, some built seek grants from Government not by different communities of this land. because they like them but because if Yesterday, in the course of an address they do not get those grants, they to this House by a Member of the cannot survive. I ask, how many large PMIP, reference was made to the schools in this country have accepted name of Dr. Sun Yat Sen. I think we aid? We read in yesterday's paper that all know the history of Dr. Sun Yat the schools in Kajang, I think, refused Sen—a hero, a philosopher, an to accept it. There are dozens of educationalist, a national figure. I schools who will not accept aid, and think in almost every other house in who will never accept it, because they Malaya you will find the portrait of are not prepared to go under a policy Dr. Sun Yat Sen. I completely disagree which they have not accepted. But this that such a figure of such significance cartoon is of very great significance. to the people of a particular race should If you look at the cartoon of a man have been mentioned in this House under those burdens, you will see that and that it should have been suggested it shows he is struggling, it shows that in this House that those portraits he has still strength left in him; it should not exist in such establishments. shows that with so much burdens he The test of loyalty is not by looking is trying to rise again; and when the at a picture. If you are going to do that, ultimate cartoon is drawn, that man you will find Dr. Soekarno's picture will rise, because his energy, his deter­ in many houses in this country. I say mination, is greater than all the money that is a most regrettable case of reck­ the Government can offer him. Mr. less statements made in this House; Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Minister and from whatever section of China put it very nicely when he said in this people come, whatever their beliefs pamphlet and in the course of his are, I understand that Dr. Sun Yat address, that the Government in carry­ Sen was a nationally respectable person ing out its policy to preserve and in that community. sustain the other languages in this 2041 20 OCTOBER 1961 2042 country. I wonder why the Honourable find? You will find, even in what I Minister and Members of this House, call frivolous sections, that the Minister I would say, deliberately left out the may by order direct the name of a words "use of such languages". school to be changed. What are you Article 152 is very clear, and Article anticipating? Are you anticipating that 152 of the Constitution was drawn up, somebody is going to put up the school I take it, after very great consideration. and call it "Mao Tse Tung School", Article 152 (b) reads as follows: — and so you want the school's name changed? Are you going to ask them "Nothing in this clause shall prejudice the right of the Federal Government or to put up names which mean nothing of any State Government to preserve to them? What is the intention of this and sustain the use and study of the Clause? Is it not intended to interfere language of any other community in the in schools, undue interference with the Federation." freedom of the people to name schools May I ask whether the Government is according to the wishes of those who not going to preserve and sustain the built those schools? (Interruption) Yes, use of these languages? Is that why it you want to know something? Mr. says that for promotion you can learn, Speaker, Sir, I thought somebody was but if you go to secondary schools, you asking something. cannot learn them, because you do not Mr. Speaker: Please proceed. want these communities to use these languages? What is the explanation? Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: If Why is that on every document on you want to allow people to carry on Education only the Government leaves with education in accordance with out that important qualification, "the the Constitution, then don't try to use of these languages"? Why does it interfere by legislation. If they do want to preserve and sustain? You something wrong, contrary to the preserve and sustain something for legislation, you have enough laws to some purpose, and it is no use to deal with it. preserve and sustain unless you know for what purpose. If it is for use, then Mr. Speaker, Sir, it has been a say so. If you intend to carry out the matter of very, very great regret that provisions of our Constitution, you from the time the Rahman Talib Report cannot sustain its use by stopping at was published in this country the primary level: and even at the primary Government side has carried out a level, as I said, Clause 21 makes it campaign in mounting tension saying: clear that you do not intend to "You are disloyal, you are a communist, preserve and sustain this education you are a trouble maker, you are a even at that level. communalist", and one of the last but most important statement by the Now, I come to the question of Prime Minister of this country is that intention, and intention is very "I will take action against these important because if the intention of people." And here we come to Mr. the Government is good, then any law, Lim Lian Geok—I am not saying one whether it is not properly framed or word about the case in court, but I insufficient, can be properly carried am saying about a notice served on out; but if the intention of Government him in relation to his teacher's certi­ is bad or contrary to what the people ficate which has nothing to do with want, then whatever law you may make his citizenship. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. can be destroyed. Now, the intention Lim Lian Geok is one of the greatest of the Government has been declared critics of the education policy. He is several times—we want only Malay. entitled to criticise. If he has committed Therefore, the intention is there. an offence, that is being dealt with by Clause 21 of this Bill gives power to legal and judicial methods—we leave carry out that intention. Further, if you that alone. He was a teacher, a teacher look at the Bill in relation to the for years in this country. For years registration of schools, what do you from 1954, he was a supporter of the 2043 20 OCTOBER 1961 2044

Alliance Organisation and, if you accept this policy because this policy would look at newspaper cuttings, he is out to kill their languages and their had consistently until 1959 told the cultures. You may say: "If you like people: "Support the MCA. I hope your language and culture so much, they will do something for us on this go back to India, go back to Ceylon, education problem." Everything was go back to China." But I say to this all right; Lim Lian Geok was a hero in House, "We are not going back to the eyes of the MCA. In 1959 Mr. India, Ceylon or China; we are staying Lim said, "Do not support the MCA. here and we intend to stay here for all They are not going to help Chinese times and we intend to fight this policy education" and Lim Lian Geok by democratic means now and for became a devil. In 1961 Lim Lian ever until we get what we want." Geok is such a devil that his certificate to be a teacher in this country is to be Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the education revoked, and in fact from what I hear, policy was debated in this House I it has been revoked because he did made a statement and stated that that not bother to appeal. What are the was a death sentence on these two implications? What are the out­ languages. When a death sentence is standing features of that case—You passed, it has to be executed and this can say what you like so long as you Bill is the ultimate execution. The vote MCA; you cannot say the same executioner is, unfortunately, the thing if you do not vote MCA—then Honourable Minister of Education, he becomes a devil. That is the danger who has introduced this Bill to this of arbitrary provisions; that is the House. To-day it will be executed, but danger of the misuse of arbitrary the children remain and unless we provisions. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the execute all the children of this nation people of this country are loyal citizens who are against the policy—and I use of this country. They will follow this the word "children" to mean the education law, because I know that it generations to come—you cannot will become law when the Bill is passed completely execute it; it will always to-day and approved by the Yang remain. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the di-Pertuan Agong. The people will Honourable Prime Minister has said obey, but they will continue to that communalism in this country is campaign against it, as they are one of the biggest evils which he has entitled to do. The fact that the people to fight. Let us not try to cheat our­ obey must never be taken to mean selves. Malaya is a multi-racial nation; that they accept it. I say that the communal problems will always be majority of people in this country do present; and one of the greatest not accept it. You may say, "Who is problems of a communal nature, no the majority?" My answer is this: doubt, is an education policy. this is a multi-racial nation—you take I condemn this Bill, because all people together—you have three obviously I have to. We funda­ million over Malay brothers, three mentally disagree. Once we dis­ million over Chinese brothers, then agree on the fundamental principle you have the Indians, the Eurasians, as to whether there shall be multi- and a few Europeans who are citizens lingualism in this country or not, then of this country. Now, I don't know obviously this policy is no good. To how many per cent, of our Malay those who agree that there shall be brothers accept this policy; perhaps only one official language in this 100%, but that can never be. But I country, this policy is 100% suitable— say this: that the large majority of to those who do not agree to that, three million Chinese do not accept it this is 100% rubbish—and we disagree and large sections of the Indians do with that and I say many strong, not accept it. Putting them together influential bodies disagree with this you will find that a very large propor­ policy including the MCA members tion of the people of this country, who from Johore—the president of that have rights in this country, do not branch. What explanation is there for 2045 20 OCTOBER 1961 2046

that? The next day the Honourable pengharapan baik bagi ibu bapa Islam Minister says: "Come, my friend, I di-dalam negeri ini yang mana anak2 will explain to you the policy. You mereka mendapat Pelajaran Ugama will be satisfied after his explanation." Islam yang sempurna. Hal ini saya I submit that he may feign that he mengharapkan mendapat satu sukatan is satisfied, but in his heart he will not pelajaran yang sama di-kenakan be satisfied, because in his heart he di-tempat2 di-seluroh Persekutuan knows he is still a Chinese who has the Tanah Melayu ini. Sebab saya mengata- right under the Constitution to pre­ kan bagitu, dalam masa yang akhir ini serve his own language, and although saya telah menerima pengaduan2 members sitting on the opposite bench daripada ibu bapa Islam dengan who are members of the MCA may mengatakan bahawa Sekolah Kebang- not be able to say it to-day. I know saan yang telah mengajar pelajaran that in their own hearts—although ugama tetapi dalam masa dua bulan they may laugh now—they know in anak2 mereka itu chuma di-ajar their own hearts that what I am saying manguchap dua kalimah shahadat is what they want. (Laughter) Mr. sahaja, ini patut kita fikirkan bersama Speaker, Sir, it is significant that the mengapa sebab di-ajar bagitu. PMIP members in the course of the debate on Greater Malaysia told us Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Yang that the Member for Johore Tenggara di-Pertua, rasa mustahak-lah saya di- had said that when the time comes sini memberi penjelasan dalam Dewan they will kick out the MCA and ini kerana dalam uchapan Yang Ber­ MIC. Perhaps that is true. Perhaps hormat Menteri Pelajaran dalam the MCA and MIC are aware of perkara sumbangan pendapatan untok that and, being aware of that, perhaps pelajaran yang mana telah menyebut- they are biding their time. Mr. Speaker, kan di-antara kawasan yang tidak beyond that I do not wish to go, except pernah memungut chukai pelajaran to say once more that the PPP ia-itu di-Kelantan dan di-Johore. Saya, condemns this in the strongest possible bila bandingkan dengan Kelantan dan terms and we associate ourselves with Johore itu, oleh sebab Negeri all constitutional struggles to get a Kelantan itu di-perentah oleh Kerajaan policy acceptable to all races in this PAS, jadi di-sini bukan erti-nya country. We associate ourselves with Negeri Johore itu mengekor Kerajaan the gallant struggles put up by persons PAS Negeri Kelantan. Saya gemar like Mr. Lim Lian Geok, for example, menarek perhatian bahawa Negeri who will go down in the history of Johore sedang memperkemaskan this country as a person who fought peratoran dalam pungutan chukai for language and culture for genera­ pelajaran ini dan menimbangkan tions to come. dengan sa-masak2-nya dalam pungutan itu. Kerana hendak mengenakan chukai Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Muar pada ra'ayat satu keadaan yang belum Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya di-kenakan pada zaman penjajahan ada-lah mengalu2 dan menyokong atas dahulu. Peratoran yang di-buat itu Rang Undang2 Pelajaran yang telah supaya tidak memberatkan kapada di-kemukakan oleh Yang Berhormat ra'ayat dengan di-bagi peringkat-nya Menteri Pelajaran dan saya gemar sebab pungutan chukai itu akan menarek perhatian di-antara uchapan2 melalui chukai2 kebun, jadi dengan itu Yang Berhormat itu mudah2an men- timbangan dengan beberapa peringkat datangkan kebajikan kita bersama. pada pekebun2 kechil yang sangat kechil Tuan Yang di-Pertua, waktu beliau mungkin di-kechualikan dan pekebun2 beruchap mengemukakan usul ini ia-itu kechil penengahan akan di-kenakan saya menarek perhatian dalam perkara bayaran rendah dan peladang2 yang Pelajaran Ugama Islam di-sekolah2 besar akan di-kenakan bayaran2 yang yang mendapat bantuan. Saya meng- tinggi. Kerana peratoran ini dapat harapkan dengan peratoran yang di-jalankan bagi Negeri Johore dengan di-perkemaskan itu akan memberikan tujuan sa-bagaimana kata perbilangan 2047 20 OCTOBER 1961 2048

Melayu: "menarek sapu tangan di- mana Yang Berhormat itu di-tendang kaut duri, kawat ta' bergegar, sapu oleh MCA. tangan ta' chair". Erti-nya, chukai atau kutipan dengan penoh sempurna Mr. Speaker: Itu tidak boleh di- dan ra'ayat tidak berasa serta memberi chakapkan, kerana itu sudah jadi sa-penoh2 keriaan. personal, salah dalam peratoran Majlis ini. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, oleh sebab chukai pelajaran mulai chukai tanah, Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan gemar saya menarek perhatian kapada Yang di-Pertua, kalau salah saya tarek Kerajaan supaya tidak-lah kalau boleh balek. Jadi, dengan itu saya memikir- kan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak-lah di-ubah-lah tulisan chukai pelajaran 2 itu dengan chukai sumbangan boleh mengagong kan diri-nya me- Pelajaran. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bagi wakili orang China sa-bilangan ramai. pehak Kerajaan di-Johore dalam masa Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ter- yang lalu dapat mengeluarkan wang peranjat manakala dapat sokongan pelajaran itu untok tambahan kewangan daripada parti Islam sa-Tanah Melayu yang di-berikan kapada Kerajaan dan saya berasa berbesar hati sakira- pusat. Walau bagaimana pun saya nya datang perkara sokongan ini memberi pengakuan bahawa Negeri daripada jiwa yang ikhlas. Tetapi, Johore akan memungut chukai sum­ sudah-kah parti Islam sa-Tanah bangan terhadap perbelanjaan pelajar­ Melayu ini memikirkan dengan masak2 an pada masa akan datang menurut 2 2 bahawa pada tahun akan datang akan jiran -nya sa-bagaimana negeri yang memberi fa'edah kapada penuntut2 lain. China dan India. Saya keberatan-lah menerima-nya sa-kira dengan sokongan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pada akhir- itu bertujuan menebuskan keperchaya- nya saya berchakap bahawa Rang 2 2 an orang Melayu yang telah di-buat Undang Pelajaran yang hendak di- kesilapan oleh Persatuan Islam sa- luluskan ini ada-lah lanjutan daripada Tanah Melayu waktu menentang Penyata Pelajaran Razak yang chadangan Melayu Raya. dapat di-sempurnakan dengan tegas— dan kongkrit. Oleh itu tidak-lah benar Mr. Speaker: Itu tidak ada kena akan penolakan yang telah di-buat oleh mengena dengan fasal ini. Saya banyak Ahli2 Yang Berhormat daripada Front kali beritahu kapada tuan supaya jaga2 Socialist dan Ahli2 Yang Berhormat sadikit berchakap. daripada parti Progressive Ra'ayat dan juga Ahli2 Yang Berhormat' Telok Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Walau Anson dan Seremban Timor. Kerana bagaimana pun saya mengharapkan semua ra'ayat dalam negeri ini sokongan di-berikan-nya itu tidak ada menyambut baik termasok juga orang latar belakang, sekian, terima kaseh. China dan orang India dengan pelak" Enche' Othman bin Abdullah (Tanah sanaan bahawa Sekolah Rendah pada Merah): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, walau tahun akan datang tidak di-kenakan bagaimana ikhlas-nya kami menyo- bayaran. Sa-telah mendapat kenyataan kong pun akan di-tudoh-lah kami tidak bahawa 34 buah Sekolah Menengah ikhlas, ini terserah-lah kapada orang China telah menerima bantuan sa- 2 yang suka apa yang dia hendak ber­ paroh dan 48,000 murid China ada chakap. Tetapi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-Sekolah Menengah yang menerima kami bagi Persatuan Islam sa-Tanah bantuan penoh. Saya menyesali atas Melayu yang berpendirian di-dalam permintaan Yang Berhormat daripada soal pelajaran ini ada-lah berdiri Telok Anson, meminta supaya kita tegas. Sa-bagaimana sahabat2 saya menendang jadual yang ada di- kelmarin telah menyebutkan bahawa hadapan kita ini. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-dalam mendaulatkan bahasa ke- oleh sebab perkataan "menendang" bangsaan kita di-tanah ayer kita, itu, saya gemar menarek mithalan memberikan kedudokan yang sa- kesan-nya rupa menendang sa-bagai­ wajar-nya kapada bahasa kebangsaan 2049 20 OCTOBER 1961 2050 di-dalam negeri ini, kami tidak bakhil menentang bahasa kebangsaan di-jadi- memberikan sokongan, baik di-dalam kan bahasa yang tunggal dalam negeri atau di-luar Parlimen ini. Keikhlasan ini. Kami ta' hairan, sebab sa-memang ini akan dapat kita perhatikan sendiri dasar-nya hendak mendaulatkan di-dalam tugas2 kita di-dalam kerja2 bahasa China, bahasa India yang kita bagi menchiptakan apa yang dengan sendiri-nya telah menchabol kita hajatkan di-dalam negeri ini ia-itu kedaulatan bahasa kami. Itu dasar-nya pada tahun 1967 insaallah hanya satu dan kita tidak hairan dan kami tidak bahasa yang tunggal sahaja ia-itu hairan Persatuan Islam menegaskan bahasa kebangsaan saperti mana semua yang kami menyokong Kerajaan dalam ra'ayat yang chintakan keamanan dan medaulatkan bahasa kebangsaan di- chintakan tanah ayer ini mempunyai dalam dan di-luar Dewan ini pada bila maksud yang sama. dan bila2 masa pun. (Hear! Hear!) Ini kita tidak bakhil sama sa-kali. Tuan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, agak naik bulu Yang di-Pertua, biar-lah masa dan roma saya, bila tsaya mendengar ketika itu akan menentukan apa yang chabaran yang di-kemukakan dalam akan berlaku kalau sa-kira-nya ada Dewan ini sa-chara langsong atau orang menapikan perpisahan kita sama tidak langsong oleh Ahli Yang Ber­ kita dalam soal pelajaran ini. hormat dari Ipoh dengan memberikan suatu gambaran apa-kah akan berlaku Tuan Yang di-Pertua, banyak orang kalau sa-kira-nya Dasar Pelajaran ini berkata kami ta'at kapada negeri ini dan Rang Undang2 ini di-terima, dia 2 dan tanda ta'at kami ia-lah ta' kan kata-nya bagi pehak orang yang tidak balek ka-negeri asal kami. Kami akan menyetujm ada-nya Rang Undang2 ini 2 perjuangkan ideology politik yang ada di-perundang kan. Memandang bahawa pada kami, tetapi apa-kah ma'ana-nya, bentok Tanah Melayu ini ada-lah Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-saorang yang lebeh banyak lagi—majority-nya lebeh berkata ta'at setia kapada negeri ini banyak lagi orang yang bukan Melayu tidak mahu mendaulatkan bahasa daripada orang Melayu. Dan oleh kebangsaan negeri ini, tetapi mahu kerana itu kata-nya akan sampai-lah 2 menjadikan bahasa-nya di-bawa pula saat dan waktu-nya manakala chita ka-dalam negeri ini. Mana letak-nya daripada parti Progressive Ra'ayat ini ta'at setia mereka itu? Pada pendapat menjalankan tugas-nya di-bidang politik saya kalau hendak di-daulatkan bahasa sa-chara Perlembagaan. Menurut kata- 2 China dan India oleh kerana banyak nya juga orang dari pehak MCA jumlah mereka di-negeri ini, maka saya berdiri di-belakang-nya walau pun rasa lebeh baik-lah mereka itu pulang mulut-nya menentang tetapi hati-nya ka-negeri China di-mana ada beratus benar berkata. Terserah-lah kapada 2 million bangsa China yang mendaulat­ Dewan ini ia-itu kapada Ahli Yang kan bahasa China, dan dengan Berhormat daripada MCA manapikan 2 hormat-nya balek-lah ka-India di-mana perkara itu. Terserah-lah kapada Ahli ada 400,000 million orang India yang MIC menapikan dan menentang apa mendaulatkan bahasa India, atau yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Ber­ negeri Ceylon di-mana mereka hormat dari Ipoh supaya kami tidak 2 2 mendaulatkan bahasa-nya sendiri. ragu atas keta'at-setian tuan dalam Kalau mereka tidak mahu balek, saya mendaulatkan bahasa Melayu sa-bagai mengharapkan dengan segala hormat- bahasa kebangsaan Tanah Melayu ini. nya supaya Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Tuan Yang di-Pertua, banyak hal Negeri memberi pass free kapada-nya. yang di-kemukakan oleh Ahli dari Tuan Yang di-Pertua, itu-lah pendapat Ipoh yang sa-patut-nya biar di-jawab saya dalam soal ini dan amat berat oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajar­ saya, juga bagi Parti Islam menerima an sendiri, tetapi oleh kerana telah apa yang di-sebutkan multi-lingualism di-chuit dan di-usek kapada kami yang dalam negeri ini dalam perbahathan ia ta' hairan kata-nya PAS menyokong kita berkenaan dengan perchantuman perkara ini dan kami ta' hairan pula itu yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua memberi- yang ia menentang perkara ini. Ia tahu saya bahawa soal pelajaran ini 2051 20 OCTOBER 1961 2052

boleh di-chakapkan dalam masa walau pun Ahli Yang Berhormat membathahkan Rang Undang2 ini. daripada Muar Utara mengatakan Maka saya sendiri menarek perhatian bahawa yang di-ajar di-sekolah itu Kerajaan apa-kah akan jadi soal hanya khalimah shahadat sahaja. Ta' pelajaran kalau undang2 kita yang kan-lah budak darjah satu hendak kita akan perundang2kan itu kalau mentafsirkan Kor'an dan pelajaran sa-kira-nya yang satu pehak berlainan mantek—mana otak murid itu hendak bentok dan satu lagi berlainan chorak- mentafsirkan hadith. Tentu-lah mula2 nya, walau bagaimana pun mari-lah belajar alif ba ta sa-lepas itu ashadu kita berdo'a kapada Tuhan kerana allah ila hailallah—layak-lah bagi kita tahu hanya Tuhan sahaja-lah yang kanak2 itu, dan itu-lah asas Islam, berkuasa dalam perkara ini. Maka kita kalau asas itu di-tanam ka-dalam jiwa mengharapkan hak pertuanan bangsa dan di-masokkan ka-dalam jiwa-nya kita ini dapat di-chiptakan dan saya kalimah shahadat tahu mengenalkan mengharapkan kapada Ahli2 Yang Allah Taala, tanda2 perbedzaan Berhormat dari MCA dan MIC tidak antara pokok kelapa dengan pokok akan menyertai Ahli dari Ipoh atau jejawi maka baharu-lah mereka tahu Ahli dari PPP dalam perjuangan-nya sadikit demi sadikit akan ajaran Islam. itu. Saya sedeh sadikit kerana tidak di-ajar- kan pelajaran ugama Islam jangan di- Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka katakan mengajar ugama Islam, menarek perhatian Yang Berhormat kadang2 tidak di-ajar asas2 ugama di- Menteri Pelajaran Fasal 36—Teaching sekolah itu, barangkali guru di-sekolah of the Islamic religion. Sa-bagaimana kebangsaan itu tidak mempelajari Ahli Yang Berhormat yang baharu tentang hal itu. Maka oleh kerana berchakap sa-bentar tadi sa-belum saya dasar kita ini semua ada-lah menentang berdiri telah pun berchakap berkenaan faham Komunis maka hanya satu dengan soal ugama, maka bagi saya perkataan sahaja kata saya yang boleh sendiri soal guru ugama atau pun menentang Komunis sa-lain daripada pelajaran ugama di-sekolah2 kebangsa- kekuatan senjata maka kekuatan batin an atau jenis kebangsaan itu mustahak- ada-lah mustahak dan perlu. Kalau lah bagi Kementerian Pelajaran sa-kira-nya kita mahu menengok menjalankan-nya dengan sa-berapa keamanan dalam negeri ini dan tidak daya upaya dengan sa-chepat mungkin mahu berkembang-nya pengajaran Ko­ yang boleh. Sebab saya mengatakan munis itu maka hendak-lah kita utama- bagitu kerana ini hanya-lah sahaja satu kan perlaksanaan pengajaran ugama mata pelajaran ia-itu pelajaran di-sekolah2 itu. ugama yang boleh menentang perkem- bangan fahaman Communist dalam Tuan Yang di-Pertua, satu penenta- negeri ini. Fahaman Communist akan ngan telah di-kemukakan oleh Ahli berkembangan dengan subor-nya mana- Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh tadi tentang kala dalam hati sa-saorang penuntut apa yang di-sebutkan oleh sahabat itu tidak tertanam semangat ka-ugama- saya dari Kuala Trengganu Utara ia-itu an-nya, oleh kerana Communist mengeshorkan kapada Kerajaan supaya ada-lah musoh kami dan kami ada-lah Kerajaan mengamati kapada sekolah2 menentang Communist maka dalam 2 yang bukan sekolah kebangsaan Rang Undang ini telah pun di-matri- tentang lagu, tentang gerak dan sa- kan bahawa di-mana ada 15 orang umpama-nya di-mana ia menyebutkan murid Islam dalam sa-buah sekolah sa-malam, mithal-nya ada orang itu akan di-hantar sa-orang guru mendewa2kan Dr. Sun Yat Sen dalam ugama. Saya mengharapkan guru yang sekolah2 itu. Ini telah di-tentang oleh akan mengajar yang hendak di-hantar Ahli dari Ipoh itu yang kata-nya ta' itu biar-lah dapat kerjasama dengan patut di-bawa ka-dalam Dewan ini, Kerajaan Negeri dan dengan Kerajaan 2 kerana Dr. San Yat Sen itu sa-orang Persekutuan dalam melaksanakan guru pemimpin besar dalam dunia ini. Tuan ugama dari sekolah itu dapat di- Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak mengerti laksanakan dengan segera, kerana pemimpin besar dalam dunia ini, 2053 20 OCTOBER 1961 2054 tetapi dengan mendewa2kan Dr; Sun tidak hairan kalau sa-kira-nya ada Yat Sen atau Chiang Kai Sek atau Mao orang2 yang menyuarakan: kami tidak Tze Tung atau siapa juga, orang itu puas hati, benda ini ta' guna, benda yang tidak ta'at setia kapada negeri ini condemn, sebab mereka memang ini, tidak ta'at kapada Tanah Melayu tidak puas hati. Tetapi, dalam sikap tidak-lah layak mendapat sanjongan yang saperti ini, kami pun PAS tidak dan pujaan kerana yang demikian itu puas hati, sebab terlalu banyak tidak layak bagi negeri ini. Perikatan memberi—kami pun tidak puas hati—yang sa-patut-nya di-beri Oleh kerana kita tahu bahawa bagaimana chara hendak meninggikan dengan memasokkan segangat mere­ 2 bahasa kebangsaan. Meski pun bagitu, ka ini ka-dalam sekolah akan mereka itu patut-lah di-beri bantuan. mengingatkan mereka itu kapada tanah Sunggoh pun kami tidak puas hati, tumpah darah-nya yang asal, yang mana tetapi dasar pelajaran dan undang2 ta'at setia-nya kapada negara ini akan ini hendak menegakkan bahasa kebang­ sumbeng dan tidak penoh. Oleh hal saan ada-lah mendapat sokongan yang yang demikian, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-penoh-nya daripada kami. (Tepok). saya menarek perhatian Yang Berhor- mat Menteri Pelajaran supaya sekolah2 Enche' Lee San Choon (Kluang kebangsaan, sekolah2 jenis kebangsaan, Utara): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to baik rendah, menengah, tinggi atau support this Bill. So far, has any lanjut memerhatikan tiap2 suara yang Opposition Member presented any di-lagukan dalam sekolah2 ini. Sebab, concrete proposal to solve this Tuan Yang di-Pertua, lagu mempunyai problem? Let us take their points one satu irama yang boleh menaikkan by one. First, the Honourable Member semangat, dan dengan semangat itu for Seberang Selatan—I presume he akan mengembalikan ingatan mereka speaks for the Socialist Front—gave kapada keadaan asal-nya. Kalau Yang us a long talk on this matter; but Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran tidak could he let the House know, let every dapat menyekat soal ini, maka akan one of us know, what is the stand of menjadi sia2-lah tujuan kita yang the Socialist Front? When the Govern­ hendak menjadikan ta'at setia dalam ment wanted to encourage the use of negeri ini yang tidak berbelah-bagi. Bahasa Kebangsaan, they told the Chinese to object; when we tried to Tuan Yang di-Pertua, walau pun encourage the use of other languages, Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran they told the House that the Govern­ telah menerangkan bahawa telah 2 ment had not done enough for banyak sekolah China di-masokkan Bahasa Kebangsaan. So, I would like ka-dalam pentadbiran Kementerian to know what is their stand. I issued Pelajaran ia-itu 34 buah sekolah telah a challenge in the 1959 elections and di-beri bantuan, dan ada lagi hendak that challenge still stands. di-beri sa-tengah bantuan dan bantuan penoh. Saya rasa di-zaman penjajah Coming to the Honourable Member dahulu sekolah2 ini tidak mendapat for Telok Anson—and the Honourable satu sen pun bantuan daripada Member for Seremban, I believe—I penjajah. Nampak-nya bermurah hati— wish to refer to him point by point. terlalu bermurah hati—Kerajaan Per- He seems to say that the spirit in the ikatan memberi sokongan kapada Razak Report is lost in this Rahman mereka ini, daripada ta' di-beri kapada Talib Report. He also seems to tell us di-beri. Itu pun mereka maseh tidak that the important thing is the medium puas hati. Mana-lah manusia yang of examination which is not the hendak puas hati dalam dunia ini. medium of instruction; and perhaps he Sudah di-beri betis hendakkan peha, also implied that there will be less beri peha hendakkan kepala, dan beri time devoted for the study of Chinese. kepala hendak mata; beri sadikit Is that a fact, is that true? Let us mereka hendakkan banyak. Tidak ada examine it in detail. Before that, let satu pun nafsu manusia yang boleh us note that for over half a century puas dengan pemberian. Oleh itu kita Chinese institutions for the learning of 2055 20 OCTOBER 1961 2056

Chinese have been established in this the learning of the language. He has country. When the early Chinese told that hitherto people have to stop established their institutions, established their children from going to school their schools, there were then the after three or four years. This will not China's Chinese who were citizens of be the case under the present Alliance China. They established their schools Government. Under this education with the intention that their children will policy people will be able to afford to one day learn more about Chinese and send their children to Chinese schools go back to China. They never dreamt to learn the Chinese language. Further­ of becoming citizens of this country more, Sir, for secondary education, at when they established the schools. The the moment, students pay something then British Government were quite like $20 per month as school fees and happy about it—of course, because some pay $18 or $16 in partially- the Chinese paid for their own educa­ assisted schools or in independent tion and the Government did not have schools. So only those with means can to pay. Furthermore, with the "divide afford to send their children to a and rule" policy, they were more secondary school, not the man in the happy to keep the Malays, Chinese and street whom the Government is look­ Indians apart. For more than half a ing after, whom the Government is century, Chinese school students, much concerned. With the introduction hundreds and thousands of them, of the National-type secondary school received no recognition for their educa­ or fully-assisted secondary school, tion and Chinese education was not people will be able to send their considered as part of the Government children to those schools where Chinese educational system. There we have the language and Chinese literature will be dissatisfaction; there frustration grows. taught. Well, the argument is that in It has grown for more than half a the new fully assisted secondary century. We know, everyone of us schools you will only learn Chinese know, that Chinese are very sensitive language and therefore you curtail the about the Chinese education problem, number of hours and you kill the and there are a lot of grievances on Chinese education. Is that true? For this problem, but I should like to the information of the Honourable remind the Honourable Member for Member for Telok Anson, I would say Telok Anson that this blame should let us face the situation. In Chinese not be put to the Alliance Government secondary schools to-day, we have of which he was one before. During Chinese language, we have Chinese the colonial days, any rule or regulation literature, we have Algebra, we have that was passed, was considered Arithmetic, we have Biology, we have unfavourable for the Chinese. So much Chemistry, we have Physics, we have so, this has become general feeling drawings and so on. Besides Chinese among the Chinese and this sort of and Chinese literature, all other subjects feeling carries on until to-day. such as the Science and Maths However, is the Alliance Government subjects, most of the textbooks, if not trying to kill Chinese education or all, are translated from English to trying to stop the learning of the Chinese. What is wrong with Chinese language? Sir, I say "no". A + A = A+A, A chia A = I say "no", because with this Report A chia A? Is that killing Chinese we have free education, although this culture? That is not Chinese education money has got to come from some­ in any case. So what are they doing? where. This means a lot to the masses, They know very well that dissatisfac­ although it may mean nothing to the tion and frustration have accumulated Honourable Member for Ipoh. For a for over half a century, because their man, say, a rickshaw-puller or a children have no future. They have got labourer, who has five or six children, to look after the security of their $10 or $15 means a lot to him. How children. They know frustration is does it help in the learning of Chinese there. People like the Honourable language? Sir, it certainly popularizes Member for Ipoh and the Honourable 2057 20 OCTOBER 1961 2058

Member for Telok Anson are trying to Enche' Lee San Choon: I use the exploit the situation. word "dismissed", Sir. Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Meng- Mr. Speaker: I asked you to with­ lembu): Sir, on a point of order—S.O. draw. 36 (5). No Member shall impute improper motives to any other Enche' Lee San Choon: I withdraw. Member; and the allegation that we Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: Sir, on a are trying to exploit is an improper point of order. It is obvious from the imputation. demeanour of Members of the House that they are rediculing the Chair by Mr. Speaker: (To Enche Lee San laughing at the orders given by you, Choon) You should not use the word Sir, from the Chair. "exploit". Mr. Speaker: They were not laughing Enche' Lee San Choon: Anyway, at my order. Please proceed. they make use of the situation for their political ends. Enche' Lee San Choon: Sir, as I was telling you, every year there are Mr. Speaker: I must draw your thousands of Chinese school students attention that you must be very careful come out of Chinese schools learning in your words. If you use words which only Chinese, and their qualifications are unparliamentary, I will ask you to are not recognised. They come into the withdraw them. society frustrated. They want to be useful citizens of the society but they Enche' Lee San Choon: I submit to are not wanted. Now, the Government your decision, Sir. Our Honourable has come out with a solution whereby Member from Telok Anson was our the Government want to use the Malay Assistant Minister of Education before. language as the National language I wonder whether he has thought of and at the same time encourage and this: every year, not only to-day, sustain the use of the other languages— since after the war, there are 500, 800, also at the same time as a solution to 1,000, 1,500, and to-day a few solve the Chinese school students thousand, students come out from problem. After the implementation of Chinese secondary schools. Every year this Report, the Chinese school students there is a large number of such students will no more be afraid of their future, come out of schools but they cannot and I think in this way more and more have a chance like those receiving parents will be willing to send their English education, national education, children to learn their mother tongue to get Government jobs, to go to and at the same time to learn the Malay Universities. They cannot do so because language. their qualifications are not recognised— I wonder the ex-Assistant Minister has Sir, another fact is that less and less thought of it. No. Perhaps, that is the parents send their children to Chinese reason why he was chucked out of the schools. Have those who oppose this Ministry. (Laughter). Bill thought why? Have they told us why? The reason is that they have Mr. Speaker: Order! Order! I have nowhere to go. The Government has warned you before that you must be come out with a solution. They said very careful in choosing your words. no. Why did they say so? They said The words "chucked out" cannot be so because they want to see this used. They are unparliamentary. situation to continue to exist so that they can continue to make use Enche' Too Joon Hing (Telok of it, otherwise all the Opposition Anson): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like "mati-lah". the speaker to withdraw his words. Mr. Speaker: If you repeat, T shall Mr. Speaker: (To Enche' Lee San ask you to discontinue your speech. Choon) Please withdraw. Please proceed. 2059 20 OCTOBER 1961 2060

Enche' Lee San Choon: The most Sambanthan): Mr. Speaker, I hear it important thing, as I see it in this said that the world is on the brink of Report, is this: Chinese education in disaster. We read that the 50 megaton Malaya had never been recognised as bomb may go off at any time, and part of the education system in the humanity does not know what is going country. Before we got independence, to happen to itself if this process even immediately after we got inde­ continues: I say this merely as a pendence, Chinese schools were given prelude, because I feel we have got grant in aid somewhat less than a to stand on our own feet and keep million. They were not satisfied and our feet on the ground. Humanity, as the Minister will verify me. Up to now such, is at its twilight to-day. Whether more than 100 million dollars of to-morrow is the morning or the grant-in-aid for Chinese schools and we beginning of a long night, nobody really have still not solved the problem. knows. The next five months may To-day, Chinese education has been show it. In the meanwhile, however, recognised and classified as part of the humanity here, must go on as ever. education system and it is recognised as the main language besides the We debate the Education Bill, but official language. Thus, it plants the at this moment at least, how many of root of Chinese education in this us are willing to concede that in all country. How can you say the Govern­ things ethics and morals have a place; ment has any intention to stop the use that everyone, has a duty to a nation of Chinese then. The Honourable and not only to the people of his own Member from Telok Anson suggested party; that if we, in this small country, that partial aid to secondary schools want to go forward building upon that should be continued. I wonder why. I unity which history by strange circum­ would ask him why. Would that solve stances has bestowed upon us, then we the situation? Would that solve the have got to depend, to a large extent, problem? If he can tell me that will upon the factors which civilisation has solve the main problem, then I would bestowed upon us: that is, an essential think of supporting him. belief in spiritual values, in moral values, in ethical values. Seeking to Enche' Too Joon Hing: I only said divide people on the basis of language, that in independent schools the learn­ simply because certain parties attain ing and teaching of Malay should be their political ends, is not helping the provided with assistance according to country; is not helping anybody. I the provisions laid down in the Razak would wish to stress that, because Report under paragraphs 17 and 18. to-day more than ever, we have got to think carefully about the future. Enche' Lee San Choon: All the same. I also do not know the stand Some time ago, the representative of of the Honourable Member from Telok the PPP, the Honourable Member for Anson. What is his stand? What does Ipoh, said that the Indians are opposed he want the Government to do? Does to the education policy. I do not know he merely want to object to everything where he got this information. I have so that he can remain in power all the gone to many places. I have seen people time or what is it? I would be grateful in the estates, in the urban areas— to hear from him what is his" stand. Malavans of Indian stock, and I have At least the Honourable Member from asked them, and they have generally Ipoh had declared the stand of the expressed satisfaction at the fact that if PPP. They want to fight for Chinese thev live in an urban area, they can as one of the official langauges, utilise the opportunity of sending although I do not agree. I would their children to Tamil schools, English change my mind if PPP can win an schools. Malay or Chinese schools. In election in Trengganu or Kelantan. fact, I know some Indian parents who send, if thev have four children, one The Minister of Works, Posts and to an English school, one to a Malav Telecommunications (Dato' V. T. school and a couple to a Tamil school. 2061 20 OCTOBER 1961 2062 I have seen it happen in many parts the length and breadth of this country of the country, and when you look and goes to the remotest estate school. back, you realise the vast improve­ Does the Indian community object to ments that has been brought about it? I do not think it would. It does not. during the past five years of Alliance Every parent realises the good that it rule to Indian schools. These improve­ brings. I have known estate workers' ments have been basic and definite. children who have benefitted as a result of this and who have gone on I shall delve a bit deeper into the into secondary schools. They will go past in an effort at analysing and in increasing number. To-day, perhaps showing what really is our position off and on, it may be economic circum­ to-day. In the past, we had Indian stances which prevent their going, but, schools—Tamil schools, generally— as opportunity grows, as more and Indian schools in estates run by estate more children go into Std. 6 and write managements, indifferent mostly, this examination, more and more of obtaining a grant from the Government. them will go into Remove Classes and In the towns, we had schools run by onwards to secondary schools, and committees in independent buildings, then, let us see what happpens. If at a and also being run with a certain secondary school, they want to study grant from the Government. But after the Tamil language, 15 children have the Razak Plan came in, however, to ask for it and they get a teacher. there was a change. We found that After the school certificate class, estate schools, as such, existed with if they want to go into a university, 16, 17, 18, 25 children to a school they have a first-class Chair in Indian and that the teacher had to teach from Studies in the University of Malaya, Std. 1 to Std. 6 which was the highest and we have one of the world's in an Indian school. He had to teach well-known exponents of the Tamil all these classes in the same room. I language in Revd. Thaninayagam, the felt as early as 1954, long before I Head of the Department of Indian came into politics, that these schools Studies. ought better to be described as single teacher, multi-standard monstrosities. Now, is that the example of a And so they were! So the Razak country or of a Government trying to Education Plan decided, that these kill a language? I ask you, Sir, and schools had to be grouped; and so, I ask this House, is that an example during the past four years they have of anybody trying to kill a language? been systemically grouped where the Let everyone think for himself and let distance permitted these schools to be the world at large ask this question. grouped, and we have now that process They know what the answer is. This wherein schools of 10, 15 or 25 children Government pays lots of money day have been grouped together, and we in and day out, year in and year out, now have schools of 100 or 80 or in an effort at preserving and promoting more children with 5 or 6 teachers, the growth of the language. Malaya each teacher being able to take a class. had NO, I say NO, Chair in Indian At the same time, these children are Studies before the Alliance came into being taught English and Malay. We power. (Applause). To-day, we have it have geared these schools to the general and it is growing apace. We have more pattern in such a manner that children and more lecturers. Only the other day in estate schools can write the Std. 6 another lecturer arrived—I forgot his examination and, if they pass, go on to name—who is an expert in Sanskrit a secondary school. The fact that they and will help in research. We will have have been taught English and Malay fundamental research in the language, for so many years in these estate and as we know the association of schools makes it easy for them to go Malay with Tamil and Sanskrit, that into Remove Classes and onward to study of the Indian Group in the secondary schools. Now, this is an University of Malaya is going to help opportunity which extends throughout a lot in the growth of the culture that 2063 20 OCTOBER 1961 2064 we have in this country. Why then clamoured as much as the Indians for does the PPP say—I know the English education, but they were not Honourable Member from Ipoh is a provided. English schools were simply learned gentleman, why does he say not there and so the Chinese felt that that the Tamil language is going to be rather than let their children become killed? Why does he say the Indian illiterate they owed it a duty to them­ language is going to be killed? Why selves and to their children that they does he say the Indians are against should start schools; and since English this language policy? teachers were not in plentiful supply and since in any case, they could get I did not mention the other section teachers at lower salaries from China, to which Indian parents have found they got them and they ran their the doors open. I refer, to those schools. I say, Sir, of the Chinese workers—the ordinary poor man, who merchants and the other persons with in the past could never dream of the interest of the public at heart who sending his child to an English school, have been pouring money throughout simply because places in English the last many decades in the building schools were limited and simply of Chinese schools, that they have done because English educated parents send very great duty to society. If they did their children earlier for admission to not build those schools, then we would English schools, and obtain all the have had a large population of Chinese places. So, the P.W.D. worker or the completely illiterate. But, they took out Town Board worker sent his child, of their own pockets the money, they invariably because he had no other built these schools, they got the place, into an Indian school. That was teachers, they provided the money for the lot of the poor man. But to-day, the teachers, and they sent their during the past few years, we have children to schools. In every town you thrown the doors open and we say: find Chinese schools. I say, Malayan "Send your child to any school you society owes a debt of gratitude to want." And they have sent their those men who built these schools those children in increasing numbers to days and who ran them. My own English schools in the urban areas— father—he is deceased—I remember English or Malay schools, or Tamil those days, was so happy about the schools if they wanted to send them manner in which the Chinese built the there. Is that then an unpopular issue? schools, about their self-reliance, that The right a parent exercises to send his he himself would give large donations child to any school, to a school of his to Chinese schools whenever they came choice in four languages? Does that for money. He felt they ought to be happen in many parts of the world, I helped in their efforts. But they did ask—in four languages—any school their job. They did their job, because to which any parent can send his they wanted to keep their children children? Throughout the world how literate. Now, they did it because there many countries do you have, where was no other way out. They still such a thing exists? And yet you say the continue paying for their schools. But Government is trying to kill the culture to-day a new chapter has been turned. of the Indians and the Chinese. At long last, the Government of this Personally, my rationale does not country have come forward to say "We permit me to believe this fantastic will bear the burden of your schools. charge. We will pay everything for your schools Let us come now to Chinese schools. and we will run them and we will see I would like to follow up what my that we shall teach your language in Honourable friend from Kluang Utara your schools. But we will see that other mentioned about Chinese schools—to languages are also taught so that the go back to the history. I am afraid that children from your schools can go to a large measure of blame for the present any high post, so that a Chinese school distressing circumstances must begin student is not left at a blind alley; the with the British. In the past, the Chinese gateways of the world are open to him, 2065 20 OCTOBER 1961 2066 the universities are open to him." That, "Look, you must run the school as we the Government at last says—and we say, but we will not pay you the say it now: "We pay you all the money." To-day we say, "We will pay money, we run your schools, we build the money, we will do everything, we your buildings, we will look after the will look after your children, it is our whole thing"—is that wrong? Yet why duty to do it and we will obtain taxes are some schools not coming into it? and do it." But, knowing that the sands Some schools are not coming into it are running out, knowing that he is on because the old suspicion still exists: shifting sands, he says, "No, no. We "Can we trust the Government? Will want multi-lingualism, one hundred per they be fair? Will they run these cent multi-lingualism," which means schools which we have sedulously that every language in this country— fostered for so many years? Will they there are so many languages here— run them properly?" That is the should be spoken, an impossibility; distrust that they have, but gradually, and yet why do they ask for it? Mr. slowly but surely they will find that Speaker, the New Statesman for which children from the fully-supported all of us have high respect—for which schools go out into the world better I have high respect, because I think educated with better opportunities and Mr. Kingsley Martin has run a very that they can go to any University good paper; it is called a left wing throughout the world for further paper and some say it is left of left studies. Let us recognise it—English is but still, a good paper—came out with the gateway to the world to-day and an article some time ago in which it that English is being taught here. For said, in regard to the political parties our purpose, the National language is in Malaya, that the PMIP takes on a being taught. To those who say that highly racial role, that is, religion and cultures will be smashed up, Chinese is so on, and dismisses the PPP with just being taught and soon the University of one sentence, "The PPP plavs on Malaya will also have a Chinese communal issues." Just that. That, I Chair—I suppose that that is another think, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is ample testi- nail in the coffin of the Chinese money to the basis, the platform, of the language, if the PPP would have it. attitude of that Party—Play On But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there can be no Communal Issues. I do not say it. The nail in the Chinese language, because New Statesman says so. (Laughter). a language which has been virulent for the past 5,000 years cannot be killed by We come to another angle of this anybody however much we may try; killing of cultures. Radio Malaya—so and it is not for the Member for Ipoh many hours are spent every day in the or for the Member for Menglembu or speaking of the Chinese language. for any Party to come up and say, "I Again, I fail to see this killing of will save the Chinese language." Chinese culture. Is it the killing of Nobody need save it. It cannot be Chinese culture when so many hours killed. (Applause). And yet, why do are devoted to Chinese in Radio these Gentlemen go like this? We got Malaya. Further, so many hours of down to the basis of it. It is not the Indian languages are spoken over education policy to-day that is bother­ Radio Malaya. There again, Mr. ing the Member for Ipoh. It is not at Speaker, Sir, we have another example all the education policy but it is this— of how this Government of ours is and he came out with the truth trying to play fair and may God help to-day—he said, "Whatever you do, we it, because in the coming years, in the want 100% multi-lingualism; that coming months, we will have to have alone will satisfy the PPP." There you more and more of goodwill and under­ have the fact. They are afraid that the standing among the people. Alliance Government in seeking to pay Speaking of Chinese schools, let us the full amount to Chinese schools look around. What is happening in have solved the education situation. Thailand? What happens in Indonesia? To-day we do not stand by and say, Let us look around, and you know the 2067 20 OCTOBER 1961 2068 answer. I would have been happier, I them? Divide them, and on the basis would have called the Honourable of division, we can rule; we can get Member for Ipoh thoroughly honest, if more votes." It is not only in Malaya, he had got up and said, "I congratulate it is throughout these recently freed the Malayan Government, the Alliance nations. It is a political analysis which Government, for having been so liberal anybody can question if they want to. to the languages and cultures of the Let them study it for themselves and other races". Compared with Indonesia, they will find that it is a pattern, a you know what is the answer. Compar­ frightening pattern, throughout the ed with Thailand, you know what is the Eastern world. My request to my answer. Why then, this quarrelling; why Honourable friends who like to play up then, this playing upon issues to-day? these religious issues is, "Please desist, This playing upon issues to-day, is the because you are playing with fire." biggest single factor which is in a way Examples there are in plenty, be it in an impediment to the remaining Ceylon, be it in India, anywhere schools coming into the scheme. They else—plenty, a hundred fold—and are afraid of political pressure, they don't say that you are going to save are afraid that this platform oratory by Chinese cultures. Chinese cultures so many Opposition Parties playing does not need anybody to save it. It upon communal issues will have an is there for five thousand years and effect on the Committee members. it will live for fifty thousand years and They are afraid; they will think, "Are many more, Mr. Speaker. (Applause). we right to get into the Government scheme? Firstly, it is run by the So let us be humble. Let us Government; secondly, if everybody in recognise that there is a limit to the the Opposition parties are attacking it, possibilities of any one man. Let us can we go into it?" Therefore, they realise that in the ultimate analysis we, fight shy. That, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the who are human beings, who have been sum and substance of the whole thing. endowed with a certain basis by If only members of political parties will civilisation, have only one duty that we realise that the future is in our hands can willingly and freely render to to-day; that the future which we want society, and that duty is, to hold aloft to build is in our hands, but if we certain spiritual, moral, ethical, values think that building it is going accord­ and we want our country to grow into ing to the famous dictum of Julius a great country and we want there to Caeser—divide et impera—then it is be unity. Do we want people to be different. Divide et impera means divide high-thinking or on the other hand do we want them to tear at each other's and rule. In the past, we of this throats like wild animals, and that is country have said that we fight the what this country or any country imperialists and that we fight the would become if it goes into war on colonialists because they divide and language, war on culture. So, Mr. rule. Yes, the British divided India, Speaker, I would like to appeal most they had the Hindus and Muslims at sincerely in the name of our civilisa­ each other's throats. They did that and tion, "Please let us build up the nobody can deny it. But what is future." Thank you. (Applause). happening around the world to-day? We who fought for freedom in those Che' Khadijah binti Mohd. Sidek days did say, "We must unite to (Dungun): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya achieve the freedom." But what are we menyokong kapada dasar pelajaran ini, doing to-day? If we look around, we Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kerana dasar ini will find that in most countries, the bersamaan dengan dasar Persatuan very politicians who to-day are the kami. Kalau kira-nya tadi ada salah men who claim to bring about the sa-orang dari Ahli Yang Berhormat millennium of the people, say to them­ merasa was2 atau mempunya'i shak selves, "Look, there are so many races, wasangka kenapa Persatuan kami pada so many languages and so many hari ini menyokong dasar pelajaran ini, religions. Why should we not divide maka di-sini saya suka memberi 2069 20 OCTOBER 1961 2070

keterangan-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua. kan bahasa2 asing sa-bagai bahasa Kami menyokong dasar pelajaran ini rasmi dalam negeri ini hatta apa yang ia-lah bersesuaian dengan dasar atau akan terjadi. (Hear! Hear!). idioloji Parti kami; kami berjuang de­ ngan sunggoh2-nya ia-itu dasar pelajaran Mr. Speaker: Perlahan sadikit. yang akan menegakkan bahasa Melayu sa-bagai bahasa Kebangsaan yang Che' Khadijah binti Mohd. Sidek: tunggal dalam negeri ini. Kerana Parti Naik semangat, Tuan Yang di-Pertua. kami mempunyai dasar2 yang pertama, (Ketawa). Sa-betul-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pada pendapat saya menilek satu negara yang berbahasa satu, 2 bahasa Melayu dan berbangsa satu kapada uchapan yang di-berikan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajar­ ia-itu bangsa Melayu. Oleh kerana 2 2 bahasa Melayu akan menjadi bahasa an dan menilek kapada isi Undang rasmi yang tunggal dalam negeri ini ini, saya merasa sa-benar-nya pem- ia-itu bersesuaian dengan dasar atau berian yang telah di-berikan oleh Menteri Pelajaran terhadap saudara2 idioloji yang kami anuti dan kerana 2 itu-lah maka kami memberikan sokong- bangsa asing sudah berlebeh daripada an dalam dasar ini. patut. Kerana kalau di-bandingkan Sekolah2 China yang ada dalam negeri Saya berharap Yang Berhormat ini ada-lah Sekolah Private dahulu daripada Muar Utara faham dengan yang sekarang dengan sukachita 2 Kerajaan telah memberi bantuan sa- sesunggoh -nya kenapa kami memberi 2 sokongan itu. Jadi bukan-lah kerana hingga yang dahulu-nya murid dalam ada tipu helah politik terselit di-dalam- Sekolah Menengah atau Sekolah Tinggi nya, kami tidak mahu bermain di-balek dahulu tidak di-recognisekan ia-itu belakang, kami mahu tegas2, berterang2 penamatan pelajaran-nya oleh Kerajaan terhadap bangsa kami dalam menegak­ maka pada hari ini kerana sekolah itu telah di-jadikan Sekolah Kebangsaan kan bangsa kami dalam negeri ini. 2 Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya hendak di-sokong oleh Kerajaan maka murid - memberi jawapan sadikit kapada Ahli nya akan menerima kebahgiaan, Yang Berhormat daripada Ipoh, mereka boleh di-anggap sama dengan murid2 berkelulusan Sekolah Menengah kerana beliau itu sa-bagaimana sudah 2 di-tentang oleh beberapa Ahli Yang yang lain dan akan mendapat kerja Berhormat dalam Dewan ini, tentang dalam negeri ini. Tetapi kalau kita beliau itu hendak menegakkan multi- lihat, mana ada satu Sekolah Private lingualism dalam negeri ini, maka atau Sekolah Menengah yang di-punyai beliau itu juga sudah agak marah oleh orang Melayu dalam negeri ini. terhadap Parti Islam sa-Tanah Melayu Sa-kira-nya kita bandingkan dengan kerana memberi sokongan dalam dasar itu sangat-lah tidak adil Kerajaan pelajaran ini sa-hingga beliau mengata- terhadap kami kerana sangat bermurah hati memberikan segala2-nya kapada kan Parti Islam sekarang ini sudah 2 tidak di-perchaya"i lagi oleh ra'ayat bangsa China, tetapi ini pun saudara Kelantan dan Trengganu. Sunggoh pun dari bangsa China sa-tengah-nya maseh Yang Berhormat daripada Ipoh berkata merasa lagi tidak adil, maseh merasa demikian, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tetap lagi belum memuaskan akan pem- Kerajaan Kelantan dan Trengganu di- berian-nya. bawah pentadbiran Kerajaan Parti Mr. Speaker: Saya hendak ingatkan Islam sa-Tanah Melayu. Maka di-sini, lagi, di-bawah peratoran 10, ada-lah saya menegaskan lagi kami dari PAS salah berkata perkataan yang harus sa-lagi Kerajaan pada hari ini mem­ menaikkan perasaan bersakit2 hati, punyai pemerentahan yang tetap, tegap atau bermusoh2an di-antara satu menegakkan bahasa Melayu menjadi dengan satu kaum dalam Persekutuan bahasa Kebangsaan yang tunggal ini. Jaga2 sadikit. dalam negeri ini, kami tetap akan berdiri di-belakang Kerajaan meng- Che' Khadijah binti Mohd. Sidek: hadapi segala rintangan atau halangan Terima kaseh, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-siapa sahaja yang hendak menegak­ maksud saya untok memberikan per- 2071 20 OCTOBER 1961 2072 bandingan, dan tidak ada niat untok Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya merasa menaikkan semangat untok bersakit2 sangat dukachita kenapa rakan2 saya hati di-antara satu kaum dengan satu ia-itu wakil dari Jitra dan wakil dari kaum. Pontian Selatan tidak mengambil per­ hatian dalam perkara wanita ini kerana Jadi, saya merasa, Tuan Yang di­ mereka itu dudok dalam pehak Pertua, ta' patut-lah rasa-nya ada lagi Kerajaan. orang yang tidak puas hati terhadap dasar pelajaran ini. Di-sini, Tuan Mr. Speaker: Itu tidak kena Yang . di-Pertua, walau pun kami mengena dengan perkara di-hadapan memberikan sokongan tetapi untok kita ini. lebeh baik lagi di-beri tambahan mana2 yang kurang dalam Undang2 ini, kami Che' Khadijah binti Mohd. Sidek: Bukan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, hendak­ memberikan pandangan2 atau meng­ 2 harapkan kapada pehak Menteri lah ada pandangan atau permintaan Pelajaran ia-itu di-fasal: daripada wanita dari pehak sana ...... Mr. Speaker: Puan tidak boleh 23. It shall be the duty of the Minister to secure the provision of education in masokkan perkara itu. secondary schools of the following Che' Khadijah binti Mohd. Sidek: descriptions : Jadi, saya minta kapada Yang Ber­ (a) sekolah 2 pelajaran lanjutan or, in hormat Menteri Pelajaran supaya dapat English, continuation schools; menambahkan sekolah2 atau college (b) sekolah2 lanjutan kampong or, in di-dalam Rang Undang2 Pelajaran ini English, rural extension schools; kerana ini sangat penting bagi kema­ 2 (c) national secondary schools; juan anak perempuan dalam negeri ini. Sebab rasa saya, anak2 perempuan (d) national-type secondary schools; tidak kurang jumlah-nya daripada (e) secondary trade schools; anak2 lelaki bersekolah di-dalam (f) secondary technical schools; negeri kita ini. (g) secondary schools of such other Mr. Speaker: Meshuarat di-tanggoh­ descriptions as the Minister may kan sa-hingga 2.30 petang. from time to time direct. Sitting suspended at 12.00 noon. Di-sini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya berharap supaya di-adakan lagi di­ Sitting resumed at 2.30 p.m. bawah (f)-(g) ini hendak-lah di­ tuliskan "secondary domestic science (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) school." Sebab2-nya, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, sekarang sekolah2 kebangsaan THE EDUCATION BILL itu ada di-dirikan khas untok anak2 perempuan sahaja di-kampong2 dan Debate resumed. di-dalam-nya itu di-ajar pelajar­ Question again proposed. an domestic science-jahit-menjahit, masak-mema<;ak dan lain2-nya. Jika The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun sakira-nya anak2 perempuan lepas Haji Abdul Razak): Mr. Speaker, Sir, daripada sekolah kebangsaan itu bila it always gives me great pleasure and mereka itu; jika sa-kira-nya di-satu2 a great stimulus to return to this negeri ada satu secondary domestic battlefield of education where for some science school, maka daripada sekolah2 years I had the honour of being the itu nanti akan di-pileh dan di-masok­ Minister. At that time it was a real kan ka-dalam secondary school ini. battlefield, because there were firings from all sides-from Chinese schools, Dan juga di-fasal 25 (a), (b) dan (c) from Malay schools, from English ini, saya juga meminta supaya di­ schools, from Tamil schools, and masokkan pelajaran domestic-dari­ indeed from all schools. With the pada secondary school di-masokkan . adoption of the 1956 Report and its nanti ka-dalam domestic college. implementation the fury of the battle 2073 20 OCTOBER 1961 2074 had been ·reduced a:nd now we have iri the .future; That Review Committee only firing from one side, that is from was never · asked, and it was not ~ Chinese education and from those who entitled, to produce any new policy or ~; champion the cause of Chinese new system, or any fundamental education. change in the policy or the system. Now, Sir, it has been alleged in What in fact that Committee did was t this House as well as outside that the to affirm and clarify the fundamental Report of the Review Committee is principles contained in my Report of different in principle as well as in policy 1956. Although I was not a member of from the Report of the Committee in the 1960 Committee, its Chairman, my 1956. I would like, Sir, as one of Honourable colleague the Minister of those responsible for the 1956 Report, Education, did me the courtesy of as the Chairman of that Committee, providing me with all the minutes and to state before this House quite clearly papers of this Committee and through­ that there is no difference in principle out the deliberations he consulted me and policy between the Rahman Talib on my views with the object of ensuring Report and the 1956 Report. There that the two Reports were in line on are a few differences, but they are not fundamental matters. Now, Sir, the in the matter of principle or policy. Report of my Committee tried to These relate to the raising of school recommend a national system of educa­ leaving age, the suspension of Local tion which would work towards Education Authorities, and the making the national language the main establishment of free primary educa­ medium of instruction throughout tion. But these are non-controversial the system, while at the same time matters and I do not wish to dwell on preserve and sustain the languages and them. I only wish to say, Sir, that I cultures of the other races. That is the am surprised-I am indeed surprised­ fundamental policy, and it is clear that the Honourable Member for lpoh from both ·Reports that the principle should have said that the announce­ on which Government has been work­ ment by the Government to give free ing is that-while the Government is primary education is a humbug or a endeavouring to make Malay the sham. These are strong words, Sir, and national language. the Government I am surprised that they should come intends to preserve and sustain-if you from the Honourable Member after like you can put the word "use"-­ the Government had made that preserve, sustain and use all the announcement, an announcement with languages and cultures of the other no conditions whatsoever. The races. Now in both Reports it is announcement said that the Govern­ stressed-particularly in my Report of ment would from the beginning of 1962 1956 it was stressed-that this national give free primary education to all policy should, as far as possible, be students, to all types of schools-to acceptable to the people as a whole. I standard type schools as well as am convinced that both the 1956 standard schools. Report as well as the Review Com­ mittee's Report are acceptable to the Sir, I will now endeavour to explain people as a whole. Now when we say very briefly why I consider the allega­ acceptable to the people as a whole, tion made that these two Reports are obviously it cannot mean a policy which different in fundamental policy is not is 100% acceptable to every section, or true. Firstly, Sir, the Review Committee every interest of this country. There was precluded by the terms of reference are such divergent views in this field laid down by the Cabinet from of education that it would be beyond recommending any fundamental human ingenuity to satisfy every changes. The duty of the Review element in this controversial field. Committee was merely to review the Therefore, an acceptable policy can existing policy and, in particular, the only mean a policy which satisfies, implementation so far carried out and within the context of national unity and the implementation to be carried out within the context of non-chauvinist 2075 20 OCTOBER 1961 2076 aspirations, all our major cultural House that whilst the Government groups; and these aspirations should be would agree that certain subjects, reconciled with the paramount need particularly language and literature, of creating a truly national system could be taught and should be taught based on the national language. Sir, in in that language, the examination must paragraph 12 of my Report it is clearly be in one of the official languages; and stated that the ultimate objective of the I am surprised, Sir, at the Honourable education policy in this country must Member for Telok Anson, who was be to bring the children of all races present in this Council, or the previous together under a national system of Council, when I made that announce­ education in which the national ment on two or three occasions when language is the medium of instruction. I was the Minister of Education. This Now, Sir, the Honourable Member for is a vital issue, because if any other Telok Anson, who was one of the language is used for public examina­ principal signatories of that Report— tions, it will mean that the Government stated that this was not the recom­ will accept that language as one of the mendation of the Committee, but was official languages of this country. only a task which the Committee could That the Government has made it quite not carry out. Sir, that is quite untrue. clear that it was not prepared to As anyone can see from the Report, accept, because the Constitution states this was one of the principal tasks that Malay is the only national and agreed to by the Committee and, official language of the country, and therefore, by being one of its principal that for a period of ten years English tasks, it must be one of its main can be used. That, Sir, is quite clear recommendations. Otherwise, the Com­ and there should be no mistake. Also mittee would not have discharged its at that time, I did make an announce­ task satisfactorily. My Committee also ment that I would be prepared as a stated quite clearly in that paragraph temporary measure to allow promotion that this policy or this goal cannot be examinations in secondary schools rushed but must be carried out to be carried out for purposes of gradually as the ultimate object of the promotion only. These promotion policy. examinations are intended solely for promotion and are not to be recognised Now, Sir, it has also been alleged as public examinations. However, this that there is a difference in the offer was not accepted, because the National Type Secondary School as Chinese schools at that time wanted recommended in my Report from that examinations at the Lower Certificate envisaged in the Rahman Talib Report. of Education level as well as the Here, again, this allegation, to my Federation of Malaya Certificate of mind, is quite untrue. In my Report it Education level to be in Chinese. is stated that at the secondary level the That, as I have said, is contrary to the National Type Secondary Schools can Constitution, and that the Government have more than one medium of would not be prepared to accept. instruction. They can have flexibility in respect of the medium of instruction, Now, Sir, there is also another but these schools must work towards allegation made that this Rahman common final examinations; and the Talib Report has not been fair in that common final examinations—the it decided to take away the partial Federation of Malaya Certificate of grant-in-aid to Chinese schools. In my Education and the Lower Certificate of Report for 1956 there was mention of Education—are stated clearly in the only two types of schools. There were appendices to the Report, and the only Government schools and private languages of these examinations are schools and there were no partially Malay and English—English for the aided schools. But when drafting the time being. There is no mistake about 1957 Ordinance, I did agree—and I that at all. Indeed, I have made it considered it fair—that there should be quite clear on many occasions in this a transitional period for these schools 2077 20 OCTOBER 1961 2078

to transform into Government schools. expense. Does it not mean that this That is why there was provision in Government has more than carried that Ordinance which gave the Minister out its manifesto, the pledge, it made the power if he deemed it desirable to to the people both in 1955 and 1959? allow partially aided schools to Indeed, I think the Government has continue—but that was only a transi­ been extremely fair and just. If I may tory provision; and after a period of put it differently, Sir, it seems to me five years quite naturally it was that the Government has never offered, considered that this was long enough or there has never been a case, in which for the transition period, and the so fair a price has been offered by an Rahman Talib Report rightly recom­ anxious bridegroom to a reluctant mended that grants-in-aid should be bride (Applause), and I do not know discontinued from next year. why some of the Chinese secondary schools need any persuasion at all to From these explanations, I am sure accept the assistance from Government that it is now quite clear that there are which is in their own interest, in the no differences in the policies or interest of the children and in the principles between these two Reports. interest of the teachers and the Only those critics of the Government parents themselves. try to make it out, or try to show these differences which really do not Therefore, Sir, it is obvious to me exist. I need not state, as it has been that we on this side of the House, the stated by many Honourable Members, Government, in implementing the in particular by my Honourable friend national education policy has been fair and colleague, the Minister of Works, to all concerned; and in the imple­ Posts and Telecommunications, that mentation the Government has tried as this policy on education has been fair far as possible to make the transforma­ and just to all. tion as smooth as possible. I am glad indeed to note that the Honourable Now, the Government for the first Minister of Education has announced time has decided to give free primary that in order to meet the problem of education to all children: all schools, unqualified children he would give all types of schools, with various them a transition period in which they media of instructions will receive free could be accommodated in private primary education. Is this the action schools in the afternoon so that they of a Government that tries or attempts could continue their education. Sir, in to destroy Chinese culture or Chinese every possible way, the Government language? has tried to be fair to give every possible opportunity to children of all Sir, the Honourable Member for races to have fair and equal treatment Telok Anson has alleged that the Alli­ in education. ance Government does not carry out its manifesto. I say that the Alliance Now, Sir, under our policy, the Government has more than carried out Alliance Government has endeavoured its manifesto. Now, under the policy of to put all schools on an equal status: 1956 as well as the present policy, the Chinese schools, Tamil schools, will, if Alliance Government has not only they accept the Government's policy, allowed for the expansion of the be put on the same footing and same so-called vernacular schools, but it status as the Malay and Government has now also agreed to give free educa­ English schools. If this is not a fair tion to all the vernacular school policy, I do not know what is a fair children. Also the Alliance Government policy. Therefore, Sir, to my mind, all has not only allowed the Government these allegations made against this grant-in-aid to exist, but the Alliance Government's educational policy have Government has agreed to take over been completely unfounded, and I ask all the schools to provide education to the House to reject all the allegations all children at all levels at Government and accept this Report in the interest 2079 20 OCTOBER 1961 2080 of our country and in the interest of when that criticism was made. Is it our children and in the interest of our not a fact that although you make national unity. (Applause). it appear that you are going to give free education, you have in fact Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Men- already decided that that education is glembu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am glad going to be paid for, to be paid for we have heard the Honourable Deputy by education rates levied by local Prime Minister declared that never has authorities? On that point the Honour­ he heard of a higher or fairer price able Deputy Prime Minister remained being offered to a reluctant bride. I silent. am glad he said that, because at least he concedes that the bride in this case There is one more observation which is reluctant. Now, what would a gentle­ I would like to make on the speech man do if a bride does not want him? made by the Honourable Deputy He would not attempt to force his Prime Minister. He says that the attention on her (Laughter), and my Government has agreed to take over complaint is that the Government in all the schools teaching all these this case is forcing unwelcome attention languages. I think "agreed" is not the on the bride-to-be. The Honourable word—to an agreement there must be the Deputy Prime Minister said that two parties. Here it is a decision, a there was no change in the present directive, that the Government is policy embodied in the Rahman Talib going to take over whether people Report, and he also said that the Com­ like it or not. Therefore, it is mittee, in fact, had no jurisdiction to entirely encouraging to see that the effect any change of policy. If that Government has agreed to do some­ be so, then I would submit that the thing. It is a unitary action undertaken Rahman Talib Review Committee has by the Government without request acted ultra vires, has gone beyond its being made by anybody. jurisdiction and has submitted a report which, I repeat, is at variance funda­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have before mentally with the requirement of the us to-day a Bill described as an Razak policy. Education Act. But to us of the People's Progressive Party and to the The Honourable Deputy Prime very large sections of people whom Minister has given no satisfactory we have the privilege to represent in explanation of the change in regard to this House, this is not an Education the medium of instruction in National- Act but it is an Act of treachery type Secondary Schools. The only perpetrated upon the people of this suggestion he has put forward is that, country. It is an Act designed to Chinese not being an official language, destroy everything that is cherished by it would be improper to allow examina­ the people and of which they are proud. tions to be held in Chinese, but he Mr. Speaker, Sir, however, it is a has forgotten that the Constitution consoling thought that the history of permits the Government to sustain the the world reminds us that no Govern­ use of other languages. If the Govern­ ment which imposes its will upon an ment were really anxious to accede to unwilling people survives for long, and the wishes of the Chinese education­ it is a consoling thought that history alists in this country, the Constitution will repeat itself in Malaya and, sooner has provided for it. The simple fact or later, by democratic and constitu­ is that the Government is determined tional processes, this Government will to stop Chinese education at primary be replaced by another more amenable level, and I don't think that any amount of words would conceal that fact. The to the wishes of the people. Honourable Deputy Prime Minister has Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Bill purports to also said that it is wrong for us to introduce a national type of education. criticise the offer of free education, but The Constitution does not provide for the Honourable Deputy Prime Minister a national type of education. We have has not answered the question posed a lot of national things in the Constitu- 2081 20 OCTOBER 1961 2082

tion: for example, we have got think of. Now, the Honourable Mem­ national development, we have got ber for Tanah Merah, I think, was national emblem, national finance, generous enough to speak to the national language, national policy, Government to get free passages for national parks and so on; but when those of us who would like to go back we come to education, what does the to India, China or Ceylon. But for the Constitution say? It does not say information of the PMIP and others, "national education". It just says who may think as they do, let me "education"—it appears in the Ninth make this clear: we are citizens of Schedule as item 13 where it simply this country whether you like it or not, says "Education" and no more. There­ and however loud you may shout, fore, it was clear that the framers of however loud you may thump the the Constitution knew that owing to table, we are going to be in this country the diverse population of this country, whether you like it or not—and that is owing to the difference in the popula­ a fact which the PMIP has got to tion of this country, it would not have accept not only in the course of this been possible to evolve a national Education debate but also in the type of education. Otherwise why was course of their dealings with other races the word "national" dropped when the throughout this country in any sphere Constitution was framed and why is it of activity. now that this Government, which pro­ fesses to respect the Constitution, is It may well be that the PMIP feels attempting to introduce into this uncomfortable to remain in this country a type of education not country where we also remain. If they provided for in the Constitution? Mr. do not wish to remain in this country, Speaker, Sir, what we are protesting there is one alternative—accept that against is the flagrant violation of this advice which you gave us and we will Constitution, the determined effort of be only too glad to provide tonkangs the Government to ram down the to take you back to Sumatra, or any throats of the people of this country other place where you originated from. something for which they have ex­ But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, all this is pressed deep hatred. More than that, unnecessary if a spirit of tolerance it is not my intention to say to-day. could be cultivated. After all we are all human beings, and it is not possible Details have already been gone into for one man to have his way and push by previous speakers, and I do not another man out of a country where think it is necessary for me to refer he was born, where he has lived and to Clauses in the Bill. However, it is where he has been bred. Why not we necessary for me to refer to certain acknowledge that fact and do not talk observations made by speakers who about pushing each other out of the have preceded me. Firstly, I would country? like to refer to certain very objection­ Now, the Honourable Member for able remarks made by certain speakers Dungun made certain observations, but from the PMIP. Since we came into I think she enjoys a certain advantage this House and the PMIP came into in that she is a lady and I do not want this House, fortunately we have to be rude to ladies. Therefore, I do avoided a direct clash. However, that not intend to make any comments on was not to be for long and, perhaps, what she said. now the time has come when both Parties have to make their stands Before I leave the PMIP, Mr. crystal clear. The PMIP's attitude to Speaker, Sir, there was one regrettable logic is abuse—their reply is abuse, reference made by one speaker, again their reply is threat. They cannot I think it was the Honourable Member answer logic with reason and their from Tanah Merah, who quite un­ answer is, "If you don't like us, if you necessarily referred to an honoured don't like our policy, get out, go back man, a man honoured in history, by to your country." That is all they can the name of Dr. Sun Yat Sen. He 2083 20 OCTOBER 1961 2084 suggested that, the man not being born Honourable Member struck a very in this country, no prominence should pathetic figure and by his demeanour be given to his portrait. I think that and by his speech, it seems to me— is a wrong attitude to take. I have perhaps I was wrong—that he did not heard no objections being made against speak with conviction, but he spoke portraits of leaders of other countries. because he had to speak, and I am Let us take Shakespeare, for example. saying that not without basis because The PMIP has not said that the it is my information and reliable portraits of Shakespeare must be burnt or that they must be withdrawn from Enche' Mohamed bin Ujang (Jelebu- schools because he was a European Jempol): On a point of order, Sir, I and not a Malayan. I do not see why think he is imputing improper motives. they are so hostile to this honoured man from a great country. It is true Mr. Speaker: I think that is all right. that he was not born here, but it matters not where he was born—the Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: It is my fact remains that he was a scholar and information, and information which philosopher and a man universally I think is correct, that a directive was respected, and I think it would be a sent out only this morning to our privilege for any school, be it Chinese, Honourable Members of the MCA that Tamil or Malay, to be adorned with they were required to speak—and the a portrait of such a great man. Chairman of the MCA has honoured us with his presence here this morning Enche' Othman bin Abdullah until a few minutes ago. (Tanah Merah): Untok penjelasan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua—Kami tidak Sir, the Honourable Member for menyebutkan tentang gambar tetapi Kluang Utara struggled to put up mendewa2kan Dr. Sun Yet Sen serta some sort of a case—and he even went pemimpin2-nya yang kami pandang to the extent of cracking some half- tidak sesuai bagi negeri ini. Bukan baked jokes which were really in bad tentang gambar2-nya tetapi lagu2 yang taste, but which nobody took real di-nyanyikan di-sekolah2 itu yang exception to—appreciating the situation merupakan lagu2 membangunkan he found himself in. Now, can this semangat luar dari negeri ini. Honourable Member from Kluang Utara really have such a short memory? Mr. Speaker: Lebeh kurang ma'ana- Has he forgotten that it was in 1957 nya. that he was the Chairman of a sub­ committee for the Pan-Malayan Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: Perhaps Chinese Youth Conference and at that I don't understand the Malay in which conference this very Member took the it was delivered, but if he means leading part in demanding that Chinese Enche' Othman bin Abdullah be recognised as an official language (Tanah Merah): Belajar-lah. of this country and he pressed for a vote and the vote was in his favour? Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: You go How could he forget it? And to-day and learn English first before you tell he is ridiculing us for asking for the me to learn Malay. same thing which he asked for in I am glad the Honourable Member 1957—and we are supposed to be offered an explanation and said that communalists. The only thing that has what he meant was that he has no changed now is that to-day he is an objection to the pictures being there Honourable Member of this House, so long as they are not idolised—that and I say, and I believe, that he I agree with him. We should not probably still sticks to his views of idolise anybody. 1957, but due to his obligation to the Party which returned him to this I now leave the PMIP. We were House, he has no option but to toe given a speech by the Honourable the party line. The Honourable Mem­ Member for Kluang Utara. Now, the ber was unable to answer one single 2085 20 OCTOBER 1961 2086 point that was made out in this debate this proclamation. He said that every­ against the policy. He did not even one has a duty to the nation and not attempt to do so. He concluded by only to his own party. That is true, creating a third category of languages but the tragedy of it is that if the in this country—so far we have had Honourable Minister for Works, Posts an official language and we have had and Telecommunications himself were a national language. For the first time to realise that first, he would not to-day the Honourable Member from Kluang be in the Alliance. He would be out Utara had brought in a third classifica­ of the Alliance working for the nation. tion "main language". He said that Mr. Speaker, Sir, again I have some Chinese is a main language and he is amount of sympathy for the Honour­ satisfied because it is a main language. able Minister of Works, Posts and But who provided this classification Telecommunications, because I remem­ and who recognises Chinese as a main ber the days when the PPP was a language? Nobody knows except the member of the Alliance, and the Member for Kluang Utara. Alliance which existed in Perak at Now, I do not know why for some that time was the UMNO, MCA and reason or other he ended up his speech PPP alliance. At that time the MIC by telling us that he would be more had been in the Alliance and then had inclined to listen to us if we could win walked out of the Alliance, and then an election in the East Coast. I really they applied to come in again. do not know why he wants us to go and win an election in the East Coast Enche' Mohamed bin Ujang: I think to make him listen to us. I do not that has nothing to do with the Bill understand it. Perhaps my intelligence before us. I am speaking under Order is much below his, but I think that 36 (1). a more manly and more courageous Mr. Speaker: I think he is quite thing for him to say was that he would relevant because it was mentioned by go to Perak and he would win back the Minister for Works, Posts and the seats which the MCA had lost to Telecommunications. Please proceed. the PPP. Then, we would congratulate him, and we await with anxiety the Enche' S. P• Seenivasagam: At that day he would come to Perak. What time I was one of those who were is the use of asking us to go to the appointed by the Alliance to interview East Coast to win a seat so that he the Honourable the Minister for Works, can respect our views? (Laughter). Posts and Telecommunications and to decide whether the MIC should come Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I consider in. One of the questions put to the it necessary to refer to certain Honourable Minister by me at that observations made by the Honourable time was "Would you abide by the the Minister of Works and Telecom­ majority decision?", and he said, munications. First of all, I would like "Yes". And he is keeping his word. to say to the Honourable Minister The Alliance majority had decided for that we of the PPP are not in need of this policy; therefore as an honourable any lectures or advice on political partner of the Alliance he is keeping philosophy or political morals from his word—and I do not blame him— the Honourable Minister. He took a and he has to say that it is good lot of pains, I know, to give us a whether he likes it or not. I agree with lecture, but I assure him we do not the Minister it is wrong to divide a need it. We personally would rather nation on a language issue without give up politics than to accept his justification, but the point the Honour­ philosophy and his view of political able Minister has missed is this—that morals and remain in the position in we are not dividing the nation. We which he finds himself to-day in the are calling for unity, for a unity of all Alliance organisation. men of goodwill, of all men joined The Honourable Minister of Works, together, so that together we can evolve Posts and Telecommunications made an education policy which will be 2087 20 OCTOBER 1961 2088

acceptable to all races and not only to assume that the Chinese in the to one race to the enmity of the other Federation and the Chinese in Singa­ races. The Honourable Minister asked, pore think about the same way. "Which other country in the world provides for education of four Mr. Speaker, Sir, I don't understand languages". The Honourable Member why some speakers keep on saying has become so Malayanised that he that we accuse the Alliance of having has forgotten that India has a score killed Chinese education. We never of languages, a score of languages gave them that compliment. There is receiving official aid from the Govern­ nobody who can kill Chinese education. ment of India, promoted, preserved What we have said is that this is an and used. Surely he cannot have attempt to kill it and it has been forgotten that. And also we have our explained by the Member for Ipoh this good neighbour Singapore where all morning that the Alliance will not four languages are preserved and succeed in killing it. Please don't provided for. misunderstand it. We never said that you have succeeded in killing it. You Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Honourable will never succeed in killing it, but you Minister wants us to tell him where are attempting. That is all we say. we got the information that Indians are not satisfied with this policy. The The Honourable Minister also answer is simple. We have spoken to appears to be confused regarding our more Indians than the Honourable demand for multi-lingualism. He asks Minister has spoken in recent months; how many languages do we want in we have addressed more public this country. Now, if the Honourable meetings consisting of Indian audiences Minister acquires his information from than the Honourable Minister has local sources instead of relying on addressed in recent months; we have Kingsley Martin, the New Statesman, campaigned in more elections than the he would have known that the PPP Honourable Minister has campaigned has only asked for recognition of in recent months; and from all these Chinese and Tamil in addition to the the conclusion is inescapable that the official languages. We have not asked Indians join with their Chinese brothers for a score of languages. in expressing their resentment to the present policy. The Honourable Minis­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, now I want to ter also wants to know how is it that refer to his observations regarding the we know that the policy is not accept­ PPP and our alleged communal policy. able to the Chinese. The answer to 1 do not think it is ever proper to that is also simple. We of the PPP say that a community which asks for have the proud privilege to represent legitimate demands is being communal. in this House the most densely So long as we ask for the legitimate populated Chinese areas in the whole demands of a particular community, of the Federation of Malaya, and if we are asking for certain rights, we that is not a mandate, then I wonder are not being communal. We have no what is. Furthermore, the Honourable hatred against anybody else. We are Prime Minister himself in his speech not trying to take away anything on merger, conceded, and conceded which belongs to any other community. very generously, that the education We are not asking that Malay policy of the Federation of Malaya education should be subservient to would not be acceptable to the people Chinese education. Certainly not. We of Singapore because 70 per cent of will do all we can to promote Malay them are Chinese. Now we have it on education. In return, we only ask, the highest authority that it is not "Give us the same privilege. Allow us acceptable to Singapore because 70% to develop our language and our of her population are Chinese. The culture in the way we think best." Federation is only about 3/4mil e away Now as to Kingsley Martin or the from Singapore and I think it is fair New Statesman, frankly I am not 2089 20 OCTOBER 1961 2090 ashamed to admit that I do not read or "I stand for Malays and if the the New Statesman. I do not think I Chinese do not want them, they can have lost anything by not reading it, go back to China"—and I will get and I do not propose to read it. I think the appropriate applause. But we all there are much more useful papers to know that if one party says that it read. However, it is obvious that the stands for the rights of one racial Honourable Minister for Works, Posts section of the people, the other party and Telecommunications has not been is bound to say that it stands for the able to rid himself completely of the rights of other sections of the people. effects of the colonial rule in this However, the truth lies somewhere country, because he appears to have in between. Malaya consists of many a great respect for the opinions people. Hence the educational policy expressed overseas—the opinions ex­ of this Bill says that there shall be a pressed by Europeans in newspapers national system of education which published in English. During the will satisfy the needs of the nation; colonial time, of course, we respected and to promote its cultural, social, those views. But now we do not care. economic and political development. In fact, the PPP does not care two Here the Bill envisages the nation as hoots whether Kingsley Martin or the one, and therefore we must approach New Statesman thinks that we are the problem as if the nation was one, communal or not communal. To us as one people who have originated the only opinion that matters is the from different places. No one has a opinion of the people of this country, right to say, "We own Malaya, because and in this House we speak with we were here first." No one can say, authority, because as I have said we "You are an immigrant people but we are representatives of the most densely are not"—because who knows who are populated Chinese areas in the entire the immigrant people? Let anyone in Federation of Malaya. this House stand up and say, "I am an aborigine of this country. I first Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the originated in this country, I came from Minister appealed for unity. Now, we the pre-historic man, and I first lived also want unity. But the difference is somewhere in a cave in Malaya." We this: the unity which we strive for are all, to a larger or lesser extent, is unity with pride and dignity. We immigrant people, and we must under­ are not interested in unity which brings stand that as people who have come with it shame and slavery and these to make this place our home, we want two things appear to be the goal of our rights as much as we want other the Honourable Minister of Works, people to have their rights. Posts and Telecommunications. Now, I will not go into the provisions Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato' Kramat): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had not of this Bill and shall deal only with intended to waste any more time of the policy, because my friend from this House than is necessary, and I had Seberang Selatan has ably presented not intended to speak. But during the our arguments—attack for attack and course of the debate, while I was counter-attack, rhetoric for rhetoric, outside happily enjoying my tea, I debate for points of debate. My heard a lot of statements which I Honourable friends from Ipoh and thought amounted to quite, plain, Menglembu have also made their vulgar and ignorant abuse, and so I points, and as for abuse our friends feel I ought to say something, although from the PMIP have succeeded very I like to make it as short as I can, well in meeting the abuse from the to clarify certain points. Government benches. I wish to make it very clear that I have the mandate First of all, we must know that in and I am speaking here as the General this kind of debate, it is very easy to Secretary of the Socialist Front. Why use emotional slogans—for example, I do I say that—because two ignorant can say, "I stand for Chinese rights" people from the other side of the House 2091 20 OCTOBER 1961 2092

have stated that we have no policy and you have something, you should not that we have a weak stand—I am glad attack other people. We know the that though we may have a very weak problems in the MCA stand at least we are not the blushing bride. Mr. Speaker: You must be very careful in choosing your words! Now, we must understand that there has always been a policy of the Enche' Lim Kean Siew: We must be Socialist Front. But we have at least— careful. I come from Penang and I can say it from my own personal knowledge— Mr. Speaker: I must draw your tried never to make this issue a racial attention to that—you must be careful issue, never to make this issue which in choosing your words in this House, might incite violence. So at least I even for the purpose of illustration. think we are more qualified to talk I don't like it. on this issue than anybody else. It is Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Yes. But I unfortunate that we have in this Bill thought the Ministerial Bench had been the two types of schools, the National talking about our weakness and they schools and National-type schools. had been going on for two or three National schools, of course are days without any word from the Chair. schools where Malay shall be the However, now the MCA has come main medium of instruction and here also to attack us on our policy National-type schools are those when we know that they have never wherein English shall be the main had any clear policy of their own for medium of instruction. I am surprised a long time. As the Honourable the that the PMIP have said that they now Deputy Prime Minister has said, "they agree to English as main medium of are the blushing bride"—I can quote instruction, which shows a change in his words, of course, without being their policy. As for attacks by the unparliamentary. Alliance, briefly, my Honourable friend from Seberang Utara, I understand, Mr. Speaker: He did not say that. spoke in Bahasa Kebangsaan and He said "reluctant bride." unfortunately he spoke unparliamentary language without realising it; so here Enche' Lim Kean Siew: "Reluctant". we have an instance of a Malay who I thought it was "blushing." I suppose though speaking in Bahasa Kebangsaan there is some difference there. Now, is not himself well versed in it; and Sir, since there have been so many I suggest that he should go back to the attacks from other parties and mis­ National school set up in this Bill. understandings, I would like to inform As for the Member for Kluang especially the Honourable Member for Utara—or as I would call him the Kluang Utara that the policy statement "tiger" from Kluang Utara, because he of the Socialist Front was published did roar very loudly and now he has in 1959 prior to the Rahman Talib gone to sleep in the afternoon as is Report, and says in respect of our the habit of all animals in the jungle policy that— (Laughter)—he says that we have no policy since the Socialist Front (the "The proper function of Education is Labour Party and Parti Rakyat) have (a) to bring about a unity and a quarrels. You know, coming from him Malayan personality."— such statements are very surprising; So you see even from the opening what policy has the MCA got? sentence, we had in 1959 talked Absolutely none. It is, as my Honour­ about a Malayan personality, not a able friend from Damansara has Malay personality or a Chinese suggested to me, like a woman going personality in Malaya.— to a fashion parade naked, without clothes, and saying, "How beautiful "(b) to increase the power of under­ I look." The point is this that unless standing and communication between the people." 2093 20 OCTOBER 1961 2094

So you see, again in 1959 we had Honourable Member for Kluang Utara talked about the power of under­ cannot distinguish between policy and standing and communication between programme, then I would suggest that the people—by that we mean he go to the other type of school— integration of the Malayan people; that which is called in the Bill the and for communication between the Sekolah Menengah Jenis Kebangsaan— various peoples. We, of course, and there he can learn English, because accept that language itself does not the main medium of instruction there is bring about loyalty or disloyalty. English. In our Party programme we Language is a medium or a means propose that we must bring about mass of communicating our thoughts. If education and bring literacy to the that were true that language could Malays and to the non-Malays in the bring about loyalty, then why did kampongs and elsewhere, and we say President Soekarno fight the Dutch? next that Malay shall be taught in all He spoke Dutch. What about Nehru? schools to the same standard and that Nehru was educated in English. the preference given to English in What about our Honourable Member schools shall be terminated. We also from Telok Anson? He spoke in say that we want a unified educational Malay just now? Does that mean to system to allow the graduates of all say that he is more loyal than the our schools to compete with one MCA members who cannot speak another on the basis of equality and a Malay? Do not confuse language as cultural and national unity; and of a medium or means of education course, we must establish more or instrument of communication for vocational, trade and agricultural things which will bring loyalty or schools and must produce a more disloyalty. balanced ratio of skilled and unskilled "(c) to make people more useful in workers to fulfil the needs of the society and to produce more nation in its various fields of endeavour. efficient people to satisfy the We also say, of course, that we must needs of our nation in its various introduce free and compulsory primary fields of endeavour." and finally, education immediately. Now, what is "(d) to make them aware of the struggle wrong with our policy? Why keep on for emancipation from oppres­ saying that our Party members are sion." contradicting one another? It is true Now, let us refer to the statement on that when the presentation of a policy of the Government. It states that suggested programme was made by one the Government will attempt "to bring of our own parties to another party, about national system of education"— it was rejected—but it was on the yes, that is as we of the Socialist Front question of structure of implementa­ had suggested in 1959—"which will tion, not on the question of policy. satisfy the needs of the nation and which will promote cultural, social, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we must under­ economic and political development." stand here that what I have reminded From what I have read it is clear that the House previously has been proved we do not differ in principle. The correct. We did not vote for the quarrel is with regard to the imple­ Rahman Talib Report because at that mentation and the programme. We time we wanted to see how the Govern­ must distinguish between policy, pro­ ment would carry out or implement gramme, report and the Act, which is that Report; we abstained because we causing so much confusion. Policy wanted to make sure, and we did states mainly in a few words what the suggest at that time, whether or not aim is; programme breaks up the the Report would in fact give a bias policy into details and stages; report, to the English language at the expense of course, means the study of the of all other languages. At that time our situation and the presentation of pro­ Honourable Member for Johore Teng- posals; and these proposals finally gara was the Assistant Minister of become a Bill and then an Act. If the Information and Broadcasting and he 2095 20 OCTOBER 1961 2096

did say, "Yes, that is correct." Well, primary school is concerned, the I am glad that it has been proved Minister can at any time say, "Stop correct by this Bill. Why? It is because learning English, Chinese or Tamil as our National schools are now divided the main medium of instruction. Go into two types—the National school and take Malay as the main medium and the National-type school. The of instruction." But why is this power National school says Malay shall be not given to the Minister to convert the main medium of instruction and a National-type secondary school into English shall be a compulsory subject a National secondary school? If you of instruction. Note that English is to say that the Minister cannot convert be a compulsory subject of instruction, a National-type secondary school into not merely a compulsory school a National secondary school, then why subject. I think my friends from the give the power to the Minister to con­ PMIP have not realised that in giving vert the National-type primary school their support to this Bill. into a National primary school? That is the first point. The second point is The other type is National-type this: is it true to say that all people school. The National-type school is a in Malaya as a whole want to learn school which is similar in all aspects only one language? If you tell all the to the National school except that the Chinese to learn Malay only, will they position is reversed as regards language. be happy? If you tell Malays to learn Here the National-type school shall be Chinese only, will they be happy? If using the English (not Chinese or Tamil you tell the Malays, "Don't learn language) as the main medium of English, don't learn Chinese, just learn instruction, in which the national Malay and there are not eno language is a compulsory subject of Universities for you people", will they instruction." Now consider this very be happy? So, I would propose that carefully. When the Chinese schools one should think of a kind of bi-lingual convert themselves to National schools, educational structure in our educational they will become National-type system. When I say "bi-lingual struc­ schools—I understand that 31 of them ture", I mean this that we must have so converted themselves—the compete with people from other coun­ main medium of instruction will be tries. Therefore, it is no use asking English. people to learn only one language. Therefore the Malay school boy who We must examine the problem from goes to a National school will speak other points of view. It is to the Malay, and the Chinese school boy advantage of anybody if he is con­ who goes to the English school will versant in more than one language— speak English. That is the contradic­ do you not agree with that? Mr. tion. Where then is the unity? When Speaker, Sir, if you tell a boy from the a student goes to a National-type kampong, "You go to a secondary school he becomes mainly educated in school, you learn Malay and you learn English (many of my friends, I know, English at the same time so that you who have been learning Malay and can go to Australia, you can go to when they see this Bill would say, England, you can go anywhere if you "Good, we do not have to learn Malay can't find a place in Malayan Uni­ any more, we can all speak English.") versities," will not he be pleased? If Now, if that is the intention of the your answer is "Yes", then of course, Government, let them say so. I am not National-type secondary schools are quarrelling with it. But let them say necessary. But if you say, "No", then so and let them define their stand. why have National-type secondary schools? Just have only National Now, let us refer to Section 21. secondary schools where one other Under Section 21 of the Bill the language at least such as English can Minister can convert any National-type be taught as a compulsory subject— primary school into a National primary English or Chinese or Tamil. If you school. In other words, where a say, "No, no, we must have schools 2097 20 OCTOBER 1961 2098 with at least two major languages of which uses English as a main medium instruction," then you agree that we of instruction, then we cannot logically should have National-type secondary refuse a request that if you insist on schools. If that is so, then I only ask having English language as a medium this: Why only use English as the of instruction, you must also have main medium of instruction? Why Chinese or Tamil-type schools. But leave out other languages? Why make the Honourable the Minister of Educa­ English language a privilege? Of tion might say, I am talking rubbish. course, I have my personal opinion on If I am, may I then refer to National- this and we believe that it is, in fact, type Primary school in this Bill? The not necessary to divide schools into definition of National-type Primary National schools and National-type School is this: "A National-type schools. We can have only National Primary School shall be using English, schools with the provision made for Chinese or Tamil languages as the Malay as a medium of instruction and main medium of instruction." Why is for Chinese, English or Tamil as the that clause there? Why not remove it? secondary medium of instruction plus The answer is because it cannot be re­ one other optional language. This moved. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we must here means that if a boy goes to school understand that where we give way at and wants to learn Chinese language one point, it means that that point is only as a language, he may go to the necessary and if it is necessary, we National Type (English) School, which cannot logically say it is not necessary. means that he will learn English as a Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you ask me what secondary medium of instruction with is more important, more languages in Chinese as an optional language secondary schools or more languages subject. in primary schools, I would say more languages in secondary schools. From But if I want to send my son to secondary schools, our boys go to learn Chinese as a secondary medium universities and, therefore, they must of instruction, I can then send my son be fully equipped. to a National (Chinese) school, which teaches Malay as the main medium of We are a nation of less than 7 instruction and Chinese as a secondary million people. Everyone of us must language of instruction with an optional be as fully educated as possible. There third subject English, so that my son is nothing wrong in knowing more who goes to a secondary (Chinese) than one language. Mr. Speaker, Sir, school would know Malay, Chinese and it is our suggestion that if this Bill would have learnt English as a stands as it is, the definition of the language. If I want to send yet another National-type Secondary School must son of mine to a National (English) be the same as the definition for school, he goes to an English school National-type Primary School. We and he learns Malay as a main medium must certainly have a bi-lingual struc­ of instruction with English as a second­ ture—certainly all the other languages ary medium of instruction, and then must be guaranteed and not merely he can learn Chinese as an optional that facilities for the teaching of the subject. If I say that I do not want my other languages shall be made available son to learn Chinese, then he does not if required. My friend from Seberang need to learn that optional subject in Selatan will be dealing with this point the National (English) school since the in detail, I hope, when it comes to language is only optional. If I say that Committee Stage. But having dealt I do not want my son to learn English, with this, I would like to remind the then he does not need to do that in Government that although the policy a National (Chinese) school since in says the educational system must that school English would only be an satisfy the needs of the nation, this optional subject. So the point that we ordinance has made no provision at all have to consider is that if you are going for the division of our educational to have National-type secondary school schools into agricultural and technical 2099 20 OCTOBER 1961 2100 schools for the kampongs, for the rural Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Very well, areas, and schools, secondary schools Sir. It is very rude to answer that and technical schools, for the people question. in the town areas. Now a proper "(e) teacher training institutions, and educational system must consider the (/) other educational institutions, the whole structure of the economy of the establishment or maintenance country which, I am sure, the whereof is not otherwise provided Honourable the Minister of Finance for in this Act." could quite ably do. He should say, well 91%, for example, of our Malay Now, that is true and it is what exactly I am arguing about. It is not population—Muslim population—are, stated what percentage and what pro­ in fact, farmers in the rural areas, how portion and how the schools are going are we going to educate them to do to be distributed. This is very impor­ typewriting and what is the purpose tant. To satisfy the needs of the nation, of educating them to do typewriting we must classify our school children for example? They must into various categories as agricultural The Minister of Education (Enche' workers, industrial workers, boys going Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): On to universities, boys in the towns, boys a point of information. In order to living in the kampongs. save the breath of the Honourable Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason is this: Member, may I draw his attention to because under our provisions for Clause 25 of the Bill. finance which my friend from Tanjong Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Clause 25 will be dealing with, the local authori­ is referred to and you can see how ties should be able to impose rates very vague it is. I thank my Honour­ for educational purposes and the able friend the Minister of Education maintaining of all schools. Mr. Speaker, for reminding me of Clause 25. Sir, you know what it means? It means that Penang, Kuala Lumpur, Ipoh with "The Minister may, subject to the more money, with more houses, will provisions of this Act, establish and maintain educational institutions of the be able to get more money for following descriptions: — education. When they get more money (a) Special schools—What for? What for education, they can set up more type of special schools and how schools and, therefore, people from many? Kelantan, Trengganu, impoverished (b) Technical colleges—Yes, where and States under the PMIP—so I under­ in what language? Using English stand—Kedah, Perlis, Ulu Langat, and as the medium of instruction or using Malay as the main medium the various outlying areas, where they of instruction? have no schools, will be rushing to (c) Institutions of higher education the towns to get education. When they and educational research—Well I rush to the towns and they are would not ask that question in educated under town conditions, what public. {Laughter). do they become? They become people (d) Centres of further education " who like to stay in towns, who like to go to cinemas, who like to take ice­ Mr. Speaker: What is happening cream, who like to drink coffee, and now? they do not like to go back to the Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Pardon, Sir? kampongs. That is the whole point. It sounds as if when we have education Mr. Speaker: What is happening set up through local authority rates, now? that we are going to bring about fair Enche' Lim Kean Siew: He asked distribution in education. But "No", me where, Sir? So I said I need not such distribution brings a bias to the ask that question. towns, and it will keep drawing the people from the kampongs. We must Mr. Speaker: You should not answer maintain a balance between the two, that question. and we can only do that if we have 2101 20 OCTOBER 1961 2102 a central fund and control with distri­ democracy is that where people can bution of training centres controlled say what they like and speak what by national and not local and sectional they like, they do not feel suppressed demands. So that is why when we say and they are quite happy when they we stand for socialism and nationalisa­ have spoken. And I hope that the tion, we are actually not talking rubbish Honourable Minister of Works, Posts as some people think. Now, supposing and Telecommunications, as you call we nationalise iron-ore, don't you think him, Mr. Speaker (Laughter), does we would have sufficient education not term racial harmony with sup­ funds at once? What is the difficulty pression. in iron mining? The companies send big cranes, they dig big holes in the The Minister of Finance (Enche' ground, they put the iron-ore in their Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we lorries, and the lorries are driven very have listened for nearly two days to fast and knock people from their this very interesting debate and, as far bicycles, go to the ships, load the iron- as I can make out, the gist of the ore into Japanese ships which take the Opposition charges against the Govern­ ore to Japan, and we buy bicycles ment's education policy, in so far as it produced in Japan to be knocked down affects Chinese education, ranges, on by our iron-ore trucks again. Now, the one extreme, to charges that it has let us assume that for a ton of iron- been guilty of killing or attempting to ore the miner gets $20 profit; we in kill the Chinese language and culture, Malaya produce over 5 million tons and on the other, that it is not giving per year—but I shall say 5 million tons a fair deal to Chinese education. The per year for argument—and for five Honourable Member for Ipoh, I think, million tons a year at a profit of $20 made one very pertinent point in the per ton, we would get a profit of course of his speech when he stated $100 million a year. Therefore, with that in this sort of thing it was the nationalisation of such industries, probably wisest to look at the broad like iron, we can, by allowing intentions of the Government, and I the Government to use the same think in this very complicated issue we managers—because the towkays also could do no better than follow his very use the same managers—dig big holes sound advice. I am tempted to make in the ground, load our iron-ore into this remark, because a number of trucks and get $100 million a year for Opposition speakers tried to pick education immediately. If we have this holes in the Government's education finance, it means that the money that policy—as represented by the present we make from these iron-ore producing Education Bill—by picking out a States can be brought to other States number of clauses which they con­ like Kelantan and Perlis, where they sidered objectionable. have no iron-ore and they have no Now, as Honourable Members are money, and build schools there to aware, the Government must in framing educate the people in those States. any kind of legislation, whether it be Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry that educational, financial or any other I cannot keep the attention of some piece of legislation, give itself sufficient Members of the opposite side, because powers to act, and those powers must obviously such addresses as this not not only provide for normal circum­ being abusive they find it difficult to stances they must also provide for concentrate upon. It is quite correct, exceptional, or rather special circum­ as our Honourable Minister of Works, stances; and if one were to assume that Posts and Telecommunications has the Government would make arbitrary said, that we must maintain calm and use of such powers—and such powers that we must not bring about racial can often be extremely wide—I agree discord and violence. Yes! But we that the powers given on such must remember this: we cannot hope occasions can look very fearsome to an to maintain calm when there is outsider. For example, a lot of play suppression. The whole essence of was made about a particular clause—I 2103 20 OCTOBER 1961 2104 think it was Clause 21—which could Chinese education in this country as it be construed as an attempt to give the has never been advanced by any Government power on an occasion in Government previous to 1955. I do not the future to kill Chinese education wish to burden this House with more even at the primary school level. But figures than are necessary, but I I am told that this power in fact was perhaps may be permitted to quote a taken from the previous Ordinance few examples of what the Government and I don't think that this can be taken has done in regard to Chinese as an indication of the Government's education. policy because, as I have tried to point out to Honourable Members, powers In 1947 there were just over 5,000 of this kind are found not only in this Chinese school teachers in this country; piece of legislation but in other pieces in 1961 there are over 14,000—that of legislation as well. I would take a means the number is nearly three small instance. If Honourable Members times greater than it was 14 years ago. would care to look at Section 10 of the In 1947 again we had just about Customs Ordinance, they will find that 190,000 pupils in Chinese schools; in it gives me, in theory at least, as 1961 the number has risen to 436,000, Minister of Finance, powers which can or nearly two-and-a-half times greater. be regarded as almost dictatorial. That In 1954 there were 1,216 Chinese section states, for example, that I schools; in 1961, seven short years can— later, the number had increased to 1,406—roughly an increase of 190 new " from time to time, by order schools. In terms of expenditure— published in the Gazette, fix the customs although Honourable Members know I duties to be levied on any goods imported into or exported from the am rather particular about costs—in Federation." 1956 the Government spent just over S23 million; in 1961 the Government In theory, therefore, I could raise a will spend nearly $40 million on particular duty, export duty or import Chinese education and this will be duty, ten times without even reference very nearly twice of what was spent to the Cabinet. But as everybody only five short years ago. knows, in practice, that cannot happen, because any Finance Minister Now, let us look at the picture for who is so crazy to do so will probably 1962 or what is to be presented to this not last very long. House, when I move the adoption of the Budget at a subsequent date. In I, therefore, come again to this 1962, as far as we in the Treasury can question of Government's broad inten­ make out, the Government will spend tions, and in this respect I think all roughly $40,000,000 more on education Honourable Members will agree with than it did this year—and that is an me that we should judge the Govern­ increase of about 22 per cent in one ment not bv its words, not by the year. Honourable Members will, there­ utterances of its spokesmen, not even fore, agree that this is a very sometimes perhaps, if I may say so, by substantial increase. Let us see what the assurances of the Minister respon­ proportion of this increase will be sible for the subject in question, if allotted to the cause of Chinese Honourable Members want to be really education. I will not give details but suspicious, but by its deeds or by its very roughly the amount allotted to record; and I think in this respect the Chinese education out of this record of the Alliance Government $40,000,000 will be anything from since it came into power in 1955 does $13,000,00—it will certainly be not less not bear out the charge that it has in than $13,000,000 and it will not be any way tried to diminish the impor­ more than $18,000,000 depending on tance of Chinese education in this the number of secondary schools which country. In fact, if you look at the convert on or before 1st January, 1962. record, I think we can justifiably claim It will, therefore, be seen that the that we have advanced the cause of additional amount which will be 2105 20 OCTOBER 1961 2106 allocated to Chinese education out of considerable proportion of the total this vast increase on education expendi­ population. Even outside Southeast ture will be very nearly 50 per cent; and Asia, even in North America, in I do not think that you can charge a temperate countries, you get large Government, which is prepared to Chinese populations. I think I am give 50 per cent of a huge increase correct in saying that nowhere outside to Chinese education, for trying to kill China and Formosa has any Govern­ the Chinese language and culture. Let ment been prepared to give a Chinese us remember that in 1962 it will be free primary education in the possible for anybody in this country to language and culture of his ancestors. study Chinese free. Malaya is the only country which has done so, and I think that that in itself The Honourable Member for Ipoh gives the lie to the charge that we are has tried to belittle the significant trying to kill Chinese education. achievement of the Government in this respect. He says that this free education I have the impression—I am not an is not really free. Now, I would like to expert on Chinese education—that the ask him, where does he expect the real quarrel with the Government is money to come from? Does he expect its refusal to allow the students of the money to come from heaven in the Chinese schools to take examinations same way that Moses two thousand in Chinese which could lead to, for years ago got manna from heaven? Does he expect me like Aladdin to example, entry into the Public Service; discover a wonderful lamp which I although my Honourable friend and can rub on and which can produce a colleague the Deputy Prime Minister genie, who can do my wishes and find has stated that he is prepared to allow me enough money, enough gold, with an examination to be taken in Chinese which to finance free primary educa­ for promotion purposes but it will not tion? Does he think that I am in lead to a certificate qualifying for entry communication with God so that I can into the Public Service, and the reason find the money? Obviously, the money is quite simple—to do so would be must come from the public, and I do tantamount to an implied admission not think that anybody has tried to that Chinese is one of the official deceive the public. He, himself, has languages of this country. Honourable stated, and I have always warned, that Members are aware that in order to nothing in this world is free—for make Chinese one of the official instance, in certain countries one even languages in this country, it would be has to pay for the air one breathes. necessary to change the Constitution. Obviously, public services must be paid I do not for the time being wish to for by the public. It is only the form debate the merit or demerit of this of payment that matters, and we have proposal, but in order to change the tried in this respect to ensure that pay­ Constitution, as Honourable Members ment comes from those who can best are fully aware, one would require a afford such payment. So long as we two-thirds majority, and I think it is do that, you cannot say that free quite indisputable that in the present primary education, which we will context of Malayan politics such a introduce in 1962, will be really not majority will not readily be forth­ free—and this I consider is a very coming, to put it at its mildest. So, considerable achievement. it is a matter of practical politics, and if any Honourable Member seriously As I have stated, this has never suggests that this can be done, I think happened before, and I think if we he should have his head thoroughly look at it in the context of Chinese examined—and that, in fact, is really education, it is quite unique. Let us the main theme of the Honourable look at the countries surrounding us in Member for Ipoh. He, in fact, admitted Southeast Asia. In many of these in the closing stages of his speech that countries you get huge Chinese colonies what he really wanted was multi- who in the aggregate form a very lingualism, i.e., to get Chinese 2107 20 OCTOBER 1961 2108 recognised as one of the official able to imbibe all that had been learnt languages of this country—I think in the past, and the study of a multi­ what he is really asking for is not plicity of languages, although useful in within the realm of practical politics. its own way, will not enable us to progress to the point where we will be Sir, I would like Honourable able to imbibe more than just enough Members, for example, to bear one if we are to reach the goals which little point in mind—again, in connec­ probably have not been attained tion with the charge that Government hitherto in this country. is not aware of the importance of Chinese culture. Those of us who like I think I have said enough to show myself have been privileged to attend that the Government on its own record State banquets and functions held at has done everything it can to encourage the Istana Negara have, for example, not only the use but also the study of noticed that every time there is some both the Chinese language and culture, sort of entertainment provided after a and I would ask the House, before I meal is over, or in the course of a meal, sit down, to consider this record very we get cultural exhibitions given by, carefully and then come to its own for example, Radio Malaya; and in conclusion. A lot of rhetoric have been every one of these exhibitions there used these last few days, many cliches are always a few items which are have been spoken, and I suspect that performed by Chinese artists and in an attempt has been made to rouse the Chinese language and depicting communal feeling and excite communal some aspects of Chinese culture. I do passions for the sake of political not think that this has ever happened advantage; but education is a very before, and I do not think it ever serious subject and the people who are happened during the time when the affected are the children, not the British were in control of this country. politicians. Unfortunately, education in If to-day the Alliance Government was this country has got almost as many not aware of the importance of Chinese experts as there are school-children, culture, I do not think such a thing and in this respect let us be calm and would be allowed to happen. cool and consider what the Govern­ ment has done; and I think, if you The Honourable Member for Dato' look at it in that light, the Govern­ Kramat suggested that it was very ment's record can bear close useful to know more than one language examination. and, in fact, the more languages we know the better—I entirely agree with Sitting suspended at 4.12 p.m. him—and in this connection thought that there was nothing wrong in a Sitting resumed at 4.40 p.m. multiplicity of langauges being used in (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) national-type secondary schools. I do not quarrel with him so far, but I THE EDUCATION BILL think we must remember one practical difficulty. The world in which we live, Second Reading I think, has got a lot of knowledge we Debate resumed. have to imbibe, and one of the wisest men in this world, who lived about Question again proposed. two thousand years ago said, when he was complimented on his wisdom, that Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): he agreed that he was the wisest man Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the debate in this world, because he was the first started on this Bill, I have been waiting man to realise that he knew practically patiently to listen to the Honourable nothing. the Minister of Finance. When he spoke just now, I was very happy because I Sir, knowledge is such a vast field thought that my patience was to be that even if we were to live to a few rewarded, and I had hoped to hear hundred years, we still would not be from him his elaboration on the finan- 2109 20 OCTOBER 1961 2110

cial implications of the Bill. The rates. In other words, each local Honourable Members for Ipoh and authority will be asked to raise a rate: Menglembu have raised certain points for example, in the city of George with regard to the financial implica­ Town, perhaps, the City Council will tions of the Bill—and so have my be asked to raise an education rate of Honourable friend the Member for 3, 4, 5, or even 10 per cent. Similarly, Dato' Kramat. in the case of the other Town Councils However, when the Honourable and the various other Councils, who the Minister of Finance spoke just now, will be asked to do likewise. he failed to give a reply to the various Therefore, Sir, let us examine the queries that were raised. Instead, he position of assessment, this process of spoke more like a Minister for Chinese fund raising, to see whether it is in Affairs rather than as the Minister of accordance with the principle enun­ Finance, because in the course of his ciated by the Honourable the Minister speech he took great trouble to justify of Finance—it is true that money will the stand of the Alliance on the ques­ be raised from those who can best tion of Chinese education. Coming as afford to pay. I am sure the Minister of it does from a Minister of a Party Finance realises that as far as fund which professes to be non-communal, raising is concerned this is the most it is most amazing to me. Why should equitable principle. He has enunciated a Minister of the Government be so it correctly, but let us see whether in concerned with political support from practice it will work out that way. one community, if it professes to be non-communal in its outlook? It would, Sir, at the present moment, we are perhaps, be more justifiable if the aware that in this country we have Minister had spoken on the question of what we call the Rent Control equality with regard to the various Ordinance; and in the Rent Control schools. Ordinance it is provided that such However, Sir, I am here concerned assessment rates be raised by any local with the financial implications of the authority and that the burden of the Bill. The Minister has told us two extra rates is not to be paid by the things with regard to finance. First of landlord; in other words, although all, he has told us that nothing is going people who own houses need not pay to be free, everything must be paid for for the increased rates, education by the public. I cannot agree more rates, the burden can be passed on to with him on that statement. Secondly, the tenants. So the tenants in turn can he has told us that money will be pass the burden of additional education obtained from those who can best rates to the sub-tenants. Now, let us afford to pay. That is also another examine the financial position of these statement with which I agree entirely people. Are they the people, who can with him. But I must say here, Sir, best afford to pay an extra dollar, or that he has made no attempt to justify an extra five dollars for education? that statement. Anybody can make a This is the crux of the problem, and statement that one is fair without I feel that the Honourable the Minister giving any evidence as to why one of Finance in his usual style is believes that one is fair. Similarly, the endeavouring to mislead this House by Honourable the Minister of Finance saying that funds in this manner will has told us that money will be raised be raised from those who can best from those who can best afford to pay, afford to pay. But I submit that, under but he has not given any instance— these circumstances, money in the form no example—as to how this particular of education rates will be raised from provision in the Bill will provide for those who can ill afford to pay—the that safeguard because, as we can see cubicle dwellers and the slum dwellers. from the Bill with regard to finance, If the rates on the houses were the money will be raised by Local increased, the landlords will pass the Education Authorities from education burden to the chief tenants, and the 2111 20 OCTOBER 1961 2112 chief tenants will pass it on to the sub­ However, as far as the Alliance tenants—and the majority of the Government is concerned, as far as people in this country who will be the speakers on the Alliance benches called upon to pay the additional rates are concerned, it is not unusual for education will be this category of to hear arguments of a conflicting people. I feel sure that the Honourable nature. I say so because on this the Minister of Finance is deliberately particular question, when looking evading the whole issue by refusing to through the debates for the year 1957, elaborate on this particular point, in I cannot help notice a statement made spite of the fact that it is expected that by none other than the present in any Bill that comes before this House, Assistant Minister—this was on the if there is any financial provision in the Education Ordinance; and this state­ Bill, the Minister of Finance should ment from the present Assistant speak not at a late stage of the debate Minister of Education appears to me but at the commencement of the debate to be in direct conflict with the state­ and tell this House exactly how he ment of the Honourable the Minister of hopes to raise money and in what way Works, Posts and Telecommunica­ the method adopted by him is equit­ tions: it was only just now we heard able, so that Members on the Opposi­ the Honourable the Minister of Works, tion will have the opportunity to argue Posts and Telecommunications who the case with him. However, here, we spoke at great length on the usefulness have a responsible Minister who of English and justifying the stand of apparently failed to do his homework the Government on supporting English and is in no position to elaborate the schools in the present Bill. In 1957 the position to Members of this House. It Honourable the Assistant Minister of is my earnest hope that, in future, I Education had this to say: need not stand up again and remind the Minister of his duty. Suffice it for "It is not the medium of instruction that matters. What matters is the me to say that as far as the provision, contents "— as I understand it from the Bill, is concerned, to my mind it is most and here I think he agrees entirely inequitable. with my Honourable colleague the Member for Seberang Selatan— Further, my Honourable friend the "what is taught to the people of this Member for Dato' Kramat has also country. It is not that the products of brought up another aspect of the Bill: English schools only could be Ministers if we are to raise education rates in and so on; I also see people who have been through schools using other the manner envisaged in this Bill, there languages as media of instructions. What will be the problem of various areas about people in Indonesia, people in which have no local authority, and Burma and people of other countries, under these circumstances the Minister even China?" will have to provide other means of This, I submit, is the most remarkable raising money. I remember reading the statement, because it seems to me that debate in 1957, when the matter was if he still holds this view, then the pre­ discussed, that a lot of anxiety was sent Bill contradicts a great deal what felt by people who owned land, and the Honourable the Assistant Minister they argued that if a flat rate of believes in. If he really believes in assessment was going to be put on what he said in 1957, I am at a loss land irrespective of what sort of land, to see how he can support this parti­ then again there might be people cular Bill in its entirety, and it is my living in rural areas who might own earnest hope that he will explain to us one or two acres feeling the pinch of his present change in his view point in having to pay such rates. So, I regard to this particular point. submit that both from the urban and from the rural point of view, as far as The Minister of Education (Enche' we can see, this system of raising Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Tuan education rates is most inequitable. Yang dirPertua, saya telah mengikuti 2113 20 OCTOBER 1961 2114 perbahathan ini atas Rang Undang2 China. Ahli Yang Berhormat wakil Pelajaran dengan sa-penoh minat dan daripada Telok Anson, barang kali telah mengikuti segala pandangan dan oleh sebab dia telah berpindah tegoran serta kechaman yang telah dari sini ka-sabelah sana sudah lupa di-lafadzkan oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhor- akan apa yang telah di-sain-nya. Saya mat, terutama-nya daripada pehak suka-lah menarek perhatian-nya kapada pembangkang. Tetapi, sunggoh pun para. 39, dalam Penyata tahun 1956, banyak telah di-chakapkan, pada yang mengatakan bahawa chuma hemat saya kechaman itu berpusu2 hendak di-adakan dua sahaja jenis kapada dua atau tiga perkara. Sekolah Menengah, ia-itu Sekolah Menengah yang mendapat bantuan Perkara yang pertama ia-lah datang- penoh dari Kerajaan, dan Sekolah nya daripada Pati Progressive Ra'ayat Menengah yang tidak mendapat dan juga sa-tengah-nya daripada Ahli bantuan penoh. Jadi, yang sa-benar- Yang Berhormat daripada puak bebas 2 nya apa yang di-sebutkan dalam yang mengatakan bahavva dasar yang Penyata saya dalam para. 187, itu, terkandong di-dalam Rang Undang2 ini 2 ia-itu memberhentikan bantuan sa- ada-lah perkara yang berbedza dari­ paroh itu ada-lah perlaksanaan dari­ pada dasar2 yang terkandong di-dalam 2 pada satu dasar yang telah di-setujui Undang Pelajaran 1957, dan Penyata oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri Razak tahun 1956. Tentangan dari­ pada tahun 1956. Kemudian di-timbul- pada gulongan ini tidak-lah meng- kan pula perkara yang bersangkut paut hairankan saya kerana pada masa dengan penafsiran berkenaan dengan Penyata Jawatan-Kuasa Penyemak National-type Secondary School. Saya Dasar Pelajaran yang di-bentangkan, rasa tidak payah-lah saya ulangi lagi mereka juga telah menentang Penyata apa yang telah di-terangkan oleh Yang itu. Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri Yang kedua-nya bangkangan itu itu. Hanya, saya suka-lah hendak berpusu kapada dasar ini di-tudoh-nya menjelaskan ia-itu saya tidak-lah sa-bagai satu dasar yang tidak hendak bertanggong-jawab atas penafsiran mendewa2kan bahasa Inggeris. Itu yang salah yang ada di-dalam ingatan datang-nya daripada puak pembang­ wakil Telok Anson itu. Dan juga saya kang daripada kumpulan Socialist tidak-lah hendak mengambil atau pun Front. Yang ketiga-nya, tegoran yang mengikut tafsiran yang ada di-dalam di-datangkan oleh Parti Islam sa-Tanah ingatan-nya pada masa sekarang, tetapi Melayu, saya dengan sukachita-nya tafsiran pada tahun 1956 dahulu itu. menyambut sokongan-nya dengan dasar ini dapat di-perketatkan lagi Bangkangan yang kedua sa-bagai­ dengan kuat-nya sa-bagaimana yang mana yang saya katakan tadi ia-lah berpusu kapada Rang Undang2 ini di-kehendaki oleh parti-nya. Perkara 2 yang pertama, ada-kah dasar yang mendewa kan bahasa Inggeris dan terkandong di-dalam Rang Undang2 tidak memberi galakan dengan per- kembangan bahasa Melayu atau ini berbedza atau pun lain daripada 2 dasar yang asal. Yang Berhormat bahasa Kebangsaan yang sa-luas -nya. Timbalan Perdana Menteri, yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, hujjah yang menjadi Pengerusi Jawatan-Kuasa yang mengatakan bahawa dasar ini hendak membuat Penyata tahun 1956 itu, dan mendewa2kan bahasa Inggeris bukan- juga saya sa-bagai sa-orang ahli dalam lah satu perkara yang baharu. Dan Jawatan-Kuasa itu berpendapat bahawa hujjah ini di-sebutkan di-dalam Dewan tidak ada perbedzaan. Pada pendapat ini atau pun di-tarikan oleh Ahli2 saya itu dan juga pendapat Yang Yang Berhormat daripada Socialist Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri Front dalam Dewan ini atau pun di- telah di-terangkan dalam uchapan-nya atas pentas ini dengan ada-nya satu tadi. Yang pertama sa-kali yang orchestra yang ahli2 orchestra ini mengatakan berbedza ia-lah berkenaan sendiri memainkan peranan-nya di- dengan memberhentikan bantuan sa- 2 sebalek tirai yang tidak kelihatan paroh kapada Sekolah Menengah mata orang ramai. 2115 20 OCTOBER 1961 2116

AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hear! hormat puak pembangkang daripada Hear! tiga gulongan, ini mungkin kuat keyakinan saya mengatakan bahawa Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji dasar ini ada-lah dasar yang sa-baik2- Talib: Tetapi saya chukup faham dan nya—dasar penengahan. Dan saya rasa walau bagaimana pun saya boleh-lah 2 dengan sebab itu-lah ini boleh-lah di- mengaku'i bahawa usaha untok katakan dasar yang boleh di-terima mengembangkan lagi pelajaran melalui 2 bahasa kebangsaan dan banyak lagi oleh sa-bilangan ramai pendudok 2 dalam negeri ini. Ini telah di-buktikan sekolah menggunakan bahasa kebang­ 2 saan. Sa-bagaimana saya sebutkan dengan banyak-nya bilangan Sekolah dalam uchapan saya perkara itu sedang Menengah China yang akan dapat di-selenggarakan dengan bersunggoh2. bantuan sa-paroh yang telah me- Kita masokkan pelajaran bahasa ngambil keputusan hendak masok jadi Sekolah Jenis Kebangsaan yang Inggeris sa-bagai satu mata pelajaran 2 yang mesti di-pelajari kerana kita tahu sa-benar -nya. dan faham bahawa bahasa itu ada-lah Semalam wakil dari Ipoh ada menye- berguna dan kita ada-lah memberi butkan sa-buah sekolah di-Kajang peluang yang sama dengan semua yang telah menetapkan tidak mahu kanak2 dalam negeri ini mahu pun dia masokka-dalam system kebangsaan dudok di-bandar atau pun di-kampong ini. Tetapi dia barangkali pada hari peluang mereka dapat melanjutkan semalam juga dia tidak terbacha pada pelajaran-nya dan meluaskan penge- muka yang lain dalam surat khabar tahuan mereka. itu juga yang mengatakan bahawa tiga buah Sekolah Menengah yang men- Tetapi pada hari ini, Tuan Yang di- dapat bantuan sa-paroh, 3 buah Pertua, ada satu manifesto education sekolah yang besar di-Pulau Pinang yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang yang mengandongi murid2 sa-ramai Berhormat dari Seberang Selatan, 2,500 orang telah menetapkan hendak jikalau dia mengecham hendakkan menjadi sekolah yang mendapat penggunaan pelajaran dalam bahasa bantuan penoh. (Tepok). Tiap2 hari Inggeris, saya suka-lah kalau dia saya dapati bahawa banyak sekolah2 memberi pendapat-nya kapada umum ini akan berubah chorak berma'ana apa-kah yang di-maksudkan supaya bahawa mereka menerima dasar yang di-dalam dasar ini, "the guarantee of di-bentang dalam Rang Undang2 ini. freedom to parents to send their 2 children to whatever language school Sa-telah menjawab perkara yang they choose", saya agak tentu-lah besar yang telah di-bangkitkan dalam 2 perbahathan daripada masa Rang termasok juga sekolah Inggeris. Dan 2 daripada apa yang telah di-tulis oleh Undang ini di-bahathkan saya suka- Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sendiri ber- lah, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, menyentoh sadikit perkara2 yang khas yang telah kenaan dengan dasar parti-nya, saya 2 tidak hairan-lah apabila di-perhatikan di-terbitkan oleh Ahli Yang Ber­ yang apabila Yang Berhormat itu hormat dalam Dewan ini. Perkara berchakap bahawa dia sendiri pun yang pertama sa-kali yang telah di- berasa yang apa dia chakapkan bukan bangkitkan oleh tiga orang Ahli Yang datang daripada hati-nya sendiri. Berhormat kalau tidak salah saya (Ketawa). daripada Ipoh dan juga dari Telok Anson ada-lah berkenaan dengan Fasal Perkara yang ketiga, Tuan Yang 21 (1) di-dalam Rang Undang2 ini dan di-Pertua, ia-lah pandangan yang 21 (2). Mereka hendak tahu apa-kah di-berikan oleh rakan kita daripada mustahak, apa-kah tujuan di-adakan pehak pembangkang—PAS yang jauh fasal2 ini. Tujuan di-adakan fasal ini, perbedzaan-nya dengan pendapat Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-lah untok gulongan2 yang saya sebutkan tadi. melaksanakan satu dasar yang telah Jadi, memang banyak yang saya di-persetujui di-dalam Penyata Pelajar­ dengar hujjah2 atau keterangan2 yang an Razak yang saya sebutkan tadi telah di-berikan oleh Ahli2 Yang Ber­ dan telah di-persetujukan oleh wakil 2117 20 OCTOBER 1961 2118 Telok Anson pada tahun 1956 saperti tetapkan dasar Kementerian saya ia-itu yang terkandong dalam paragraph 56 hendak-lah kita menjalankan satu Penyata Pelajaran Razak itu. Tujuan dasar hendak memberi pelajaran, dan maksud-nya hanya-lah tertentu bukan hendak mengadakan sekolah kapada Sekolah2 Rendah yang bangun- sahaja. Jadi dengan sebab itu-lah an-nya di-punyai oleh Kerajaan, tidak kerana hendak menjalankan dasar ini Sekolah2 Rendah yang bangunan-nya maka pada masa sekarang pegawai2 bukan kepunyaan Kerajaan. Ini saya Kementerian saya sedang menyiasat telah jelaskan dalam uchapan saya bagi berkenaan dengan pendaftaran sekolah2 membentangkan Rang Undang2 ini. ra'ayat dalam negeri Kelantan, tetapi saya beri akuan dan jaminan bahawa Satu lagi perkara yang telah di- di-mana yang di-fikirkan sekolah sebutkan oleh beberapa orang wakil ra'ayat lebeh patut di-daftarkan mana dari pehak Parti Islam ia-lah ber­ yang ada sekarang ini patut di-daftar­ kenaan dengan hal2 pendaftaran 2 kan, kita akan daftarkan tidak berapa sekolah ra'ayat. Saya suka hendak lama lagi. menjelaskan bahawa hal mendaftar- kan sekolah2 ra'ayat ini hanya-lah Satu lagi tegoran yang di-bangkitkan timbul masaalah-nya di-negeri Kelantan o1eh parti saya dalam Fasal 36 (2) dan tidak timbul di-negeri2 lain, sebab- berkenaan dengan masa yang di- nya timbul masaalah ini di-Kelantan tentukan berkenaan dengan pelajaran ia-lah oleh kerana di-sana banyak ugama Islam. Masa yang di-tetapkan sekolah2 ra'ayat yang di-dirikan dan di-sini ia-lah sa-kurang2-nya dua jam, oleh sebab banyak sekolah2 ini di-diri­ dan rasa saya telah di-minta supaya kan maka mustahak-lah di-siasat masa itu di-ubah, tetapi oleh kerana dengan chermat-nya sama ada memang ada dalam undang2 ini "at sekolah itu patut di-daftarkan atau least two hours—sa-kurang2-nya dua tidak. Saya katakan mesti di-siasat jam" atau hendak di-tambah pula. dengan chermat-nya, Tuan Yang di- Tetapi sa-belum kita membuat ke- Pertua, kerana di-dapati ada sekolah putusan mu'tamad, kita mesti men- ini di-dirikan di-tempat2 yang sangat yiasaat supaya pelajaran yang lain berhampiran dengan sekolah ke- tidak akan terganggu yang boleh bangsaan yang tersedia ada dan dengan melebehkan masa dalam sa-suatu mata sebab itu maka kerana ibu bapa kanak2 pelajaran itu. berkehendakkan anak2-nya pergi sekolah sa-habis dekat dengan rumah- Satu lagi perkara yang telah di- 2 bangkitkan dalam perbahathan ini nya maka mereka pun menarek anak - 2 ia-lah fasal pendaftaran guru . Tuan nya daripada sekolah kebangsaan dan Yang di-Pertua, sa-bagaimana yang di-masokkan ka-dalam sekolah ra'ayat telah saya katakan dalam uchpan saya yang dekat sekolah dengan rumah pada memajukan Rang Undang2 ini, mereka. Maka kita tahu keadaan 2 2 2 maka fasal di-dalam undang pen­ pelajaran yang di-ajar oleh guru -nya daftaran guru2 yang ada dalam Rang yang hanya lulus darjah tiga atau Undang2 ini ada-lah sama tidak sadikit darjah empat di-sekolah ra'ayat itu 2 2 pun berubah daripada fasal yang ter­ dengan perkakas yang ada di-sekolah 2 2 kandong dalam undang yang ada itu tidak-lah boleh menolong kanak pada hari ini. Jadi kalau wakil dari­ itu mendapat kejayaan dan kemajuan pada Telok Anson umpama-nya dalam hal pelajaran. berasa churiga berkenaan dengan Jadi masaalah-nya, Tuan Yang di- section 89 atau daripada fasal dalam Pertua, ia-lah sama ada dasar kita Rang Undang2 ini maka saya suka hendak memberi sekolah dengan jalan menyatakan bahawa fasal ini ada menggalakkan banyak-nya di-dirikan terkandong dalam undang2 yang sekolah2 ra'ayat supaya dekat dengan berjalan sekarang yang telah di-lulus- kanak2 atau pun hendak memberi kan sa-masa Ahli Yang Berhormat itu pelajaran kapada kanak2 itu. Saya menjadi Menteri Muda Pelajaran ada pengalaman sadikit sa-banyak dahulu. Satu perkara yang selalu di- dalam soal pelajaran ini dan telah di- sebutkan di-dalam 2119 20 OCTOBER 1961 2120 Enche' Too Joon Hing: On a point slip circulated to Honourable Mem­ of clarification. bers: that is in line 2 of paragraph (b) of the definition of "capital grant" to Mr. Speaker: (Kapada Enche' Abdul leave out the words "but excluding Rahman) Ini ada interruption clarifica­ minor works". tion—hendak beri jalan tidak? Amendment put, and agreed to. Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib: Tidak, Tuan Yang di-Pertua. Clause 2, as amended, ordered to (Ketawa). Satu lagi perkara yang stand part of the Bill. selalu di-sebutkan dalam perbahathan 2 Clauses 3 to 20 inclusive ordered to ini ia-lah shor yang terkandong stand part of the Bill. dalam Rang Undang2 ini dan dalam penyata dahulu ia-itu dalam article Clause 21— 152 dalam Perlembagaan. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya bukan-lah sa-orang Enche' Too Joon Hing: Mr. Speaker, lawyer, teapi saya telah mendapat Sir, I would like to suggest that nasihat pesti daripada Peguam Agong Clause 21, sub-clause (2), be deleted. bahawa hal ini tidak-lah sa-kali As I have explained in the course of menyalahi article 152 dalam Perlem­ my speech yesterday, this Clause is bagaan itu, dan jika ia menyedari entirely in similarity with the one that undang2 ini salah, Peguam Agong is contained in the 1952 Education yang mula2 sa-kali menasihatkan Ordinance. We find here that the bahawa Rang Undang2 ini di-majukan Minister has the power to convert—by sekarang dalam Majlis ini. order direct—National-type Primary Schools into National Primary Schools. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, rasa saya In Section 18 of the Education Ordi­ memadai-lah dengan apa yang telah nance, the authority concerned is given saya jelaskan menjawab sa-tengah power to replace these primary schools daripada kechaman2 yang di-majukan by national type secondary schools; dalam perbahathan ini dan sa-bagai- and this policy we had—I mean when mana yang saya katakan tadi apabila I was in the Alliance—opposed and we makin lama makin kita mendengar declared that this policy was unaccept­ perbahathan atas perkara ini, makin- able to the people as a whole. The lah saya yakin bahawa Kerajaan ada- introduction of this national system lah mengambil jalan tengah untok into vernacular schools is not accept­ mengadakan satu dasar pelajaran yang able to the people as a whole. There­ boleh di-terima oleh sa-gulongan besar fore, Sir, in bringing this Clause back pendudok2 dalam negeri ini. (Tepok). I cannot see how we can accept this when we have once already rejected it. Question put, and agreed to. Sir, I beg to move that this Clause 21 Bill accordingly read a second time (2) be deleted. and committed to a Committee of the whole House. Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): Sir, I beg to support the motion for the House immediately resolved itself deletion with another reason in addi­ into a Committee on the Bill. tion to what has been said. Just now, in the general debate, we had the Bill considered in Committee. pleasure of hearing the Honourable the (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Minister of Finance speaking on this very important Clause. What he said Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the was most surprising, and it shows how Bill. negligent the Government side has been in reading through their own Bill. The Clause 2— Honourable Minister suggested that Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Clause 21 was taken from the Ordi­ Talib: Sir, I beg to move an amend­ nance of 1957, but if you look at the ment to Clause 2 as per amendment Table at the back, Clause 21 is 2121 20 OCTOBER 1961 2122 branded as a new Clause; and if a Clause 75— Minister of this Government can be so Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. misleading in regard to Clause 21, then Speaker, Sir, I beg to move an amend­ surely it is very strong ground for ment to Clause 75 as per amendment taking away Clause 21, because the slip circulated to Honourable Mem­ Minister does not know that it is a bers: that is in line 2 of paragraph new Clause, or he has doubts about (b) to leave out the figure "61" and it—something is wrong somewhere; in add the figure "89". fact, if anybody does not know that this Clause is new he must either get Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Sir, I am a very good optician to examine his afraid that we do not know what eyes, or, perhaps, not only get his head amendment slip the Honourable the examined but spend a few days in Minister of Education is referring to. Tanjong Rambutan within the district We cannot find it. of Ulu Kinta which is held by the Peoples' Progressive Party—and we Mr. Speaker: This slip has been cir­ welcome such persons into that culated to all Honourable Members. institution. The amendment is to delete the figure "61" and insert the figure "89" Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji instead. Talib: Sir, I think the Government has never said that this is not a new Amendment put, and agreed to. Clause. We have said clearly that this is a new Clause and as I have said Clause 75, as amended, ordered to just now, this is a Clause to implement stand part of the Bill. the accepted policy laid down in para­ Clauses 76 to 99 inclusive ordered to graph 56 of the Razak Report of which stand part of the Bill. the mover of this amendment was a signatory. Clauses 100 to 110— Amendment put, and negatived. Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether Enche' V. Veerappen: Sir, as the the Honourable the Minister of deletion is not agreed to, could I Finance will kindly clarify the points propose a suggestion for the considera­ raised by me and by the Honourable tion of the Minister? Here it gives Member for Dato' Kramat in the course power to the Minister—"by order of the debate, and also to justify his direct that the school shall become a statement that funds raised in the national primary school." Would the manner prescribed in the Ordinance is Minister agree that there should be a in accordance with the principle of provision for the Minister to consult collecting from those who can best the Board of Managers? If not the afford to pay. Board of Managers of a school would become just puppets. Would the Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Minister consider that? Sir, I can assure him that the money required for implementing this Bill Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Cannot we will be forthcoming. As to the have the courtesy of a reply to a polite time of revelation, I am afraid the question? time is not quite appropriate, but I think if the Honourable Member Enche' Abdul Rahman: I think there has the patience to wait until the is no need for me to reply. I do not Budget Meeting, I shall then reveal my need to consult anybody. statement to him with very great Clause 21 ordered to stand part of pleasure. the Bill. Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Sir, I am Clauses 22 to 74 inclusive ordered indeed surprised to hear that reply to stand part of the Bill. from the Honourable the Minister of 2123 20 OCTOBER 1961 2124

Finance, because at this meeting, in "Towards meeting the expenses of the the course of the debate, he specifically provision of education under this Act incurred in any year to which this section told this House that funds raised for applies, the Minister may require State education will be raised in accordance authorities or rating authorities or both with the principle of collecting them to make such contributions in that year, from only those who can afford to recoverable as a debt due to the Federal Government, as may be specified in the pay, and I am merely asking the requirement." Minister to justify this. In the course of the debate, he had on no occasion I ask, "recoverable" as to what sort of justified that particular statement. On a debt and to what purpose. Is it within the other hand, I have pointed out the State authorities' precincts or that as far as provision in the Bill is outside the State authorities' precincts; concerned, it will not be in accordance or is it in the Local authorities' pre­ with the principle enunciated by him, cincts, or outside the Local authorities' and in the light of that, I would like precincts; or is it within the State the Honourable Minister to categori­ precincts? cally state the position clearly to this House because, if this House is not Mr. Speaker: The Minister in charge convinced that money to be raised in of the Bill would like to clarify? accordance with this financial provi­ Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji sion, is strictly in accordance with this Talib: Sir, the method of raising this principle enunciated by the Minister, contribution is in the hands of Local, then obviously we are going to oppose State or rating authorities. The contri­ this particular provision. And I think bution will go to the Federal revenue. it is most irresponsible for a Minister to come to this House without being Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Since the able to clarify. If he does not know, at Honourable the Minister of Education least he should have the courtesy to is prepared to venture into the rim of tell us that he doesn't know the exact finance, may I ask him to be kind implication of this particular provision. enough to answer the queries raised I shall be very grateful if the Minister by me and by my Honourable colleague will kindly elaborate on this point. from Dato' Kramat in the course of the debate this afternoon? Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker: Under what section Sir, I have already answered that. If the you are talking? Flonourable Member refuses to under­ stand simple English, I cannot help Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Section 105 him. (1), Sir. Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker: On what point you Sir, I am afraid I am one of those want clarification? people who cannot understand him, and I am a member of the Bar of Enche' Tan Phock Kin: In the course the Federation of Malaya! Perhaps, the of this debate, on this point of Honourable Minister of Finance could financing be kind enough as to let us know what Mr. Speaker: What is the point to he actually means by the following— be clarified? " the Minister may require State authorities or rating authorities or both Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I want to make such contributions in that year, Section 105 (1) to be clarified. Section recoverable as a debt due to the Federal 105 (1) is not specific. It makes a Government, as may be specified in the requirement." general statement to the effect that "the Minister may require State authorities Does that mean or rating authorities or both to make Mr. Speaker: Which section is that? such contributions in that year, recoverable as a debt due to the Federal Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Section Government, as may be specified in the 105 (1). Sir, It says— requirement." In the course of the 2125 20 OCTOBER 1961 2126 debate, it was pointed out to this Therefore, the point is this: is it the House that the methods will be put intention of the Minister in any area in a more equitable manner, so that in the Federation to ask both States money will be raised from those who and Local Authorities to contribute? can best afford to pay. So, I am merely Is it? Do they want double taxation asking the Minister to clarify in what from the State Authorities as well as manner he proposes to raise this from the Local Authorities? If that money: is it by education rate and, if is the intention, we must know. What so, is it going to be a fixed percentage is the rate that you want to raise? on houses? If no answer is forthcoming, then I move for the deletion, with Mr. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: If I may Speaker's permission, of clause 105 (1). enlighten the Honourable Member, obviously this clause 105 only gives the Tun Haji Abdul Razak: I said the power to the Minister to require State rates have not been decided. What is authorities or rating authorities or both required is only the power for the to make the contributions. This Minister to do this. Once this is passed, Ordinance only gives the power as to then the matter will be gone into the method of raising this money, carefully. And as the Minister of which will have to be made under Finance has explained, it is the Govern­ separate regulations or by another law. ment's policy that the rates will be It has not been decided yet as to how charged to those who are in the best this should be done. This clause only position to pay. That is only a state­ gives the Minister the power to require ment of general policy. That is all the State or rating authorities to make Bill requires and if at any time contributions. Government decides to require the Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker, various local authorities to pay, at that Sir, in the light of the explanation, time the Government will state what it appears to me somewhat odd that rates and what other things are if the manner of raising the revenue involved. has yet to be decided, on what authority Enche' Lim Kean Siew: From what can the Minister tell us that it is going the Deputy Prime Minister has said, to be raised in an equitable manner? I understand he is asking this House If he has not yet decided, it is obvious for a blank cheque to be signed and that nobody knows how the money is for the amount to be filled in after­ going to be raised. wards. Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr. Mr. Speaker: The question is the Speaker, Sir, I rise to ask for clari­ deletion of Section 105 (1) and the fication which has already been asked substitution therefor the other sub­ by Members of the Socialist Front, section 2 to become 1. and to which no satisfactory answer has been forthcoming from either the Amendment put, and negatived. Minister of Education, Minister of Finance, or the Deputy Prime Minister. Clauses 100 to 110 inclusive ordered Under those circumstances, a number to stand part of the Bill. of points in Section 105 are important. When a clause for revenue is put in, Clauses 111 to 129 inclusive ordered surely the Government must have to stand part of the Bill. considered that matter and must come to certain, at least, preliminary Clauses 130 to 140— decisions as to what should be done. Enche' V. Veerappen (Seberang You don't just put in a clause as a Selatan): Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said shot in the dark. You put it in after in my speech yesterday, I ask with considering it, after having formulated special regard to clause 136 that the at least a preliminary point as to what Minister should consider the changing you are going to do with such a clause. of the word "appointed", but I do not 2127 20 OCTO:BER 1961 2128 think that he has given consideration The object of the Bill is to give the to it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this clause Kuala Lumpur Division of the Uni­ definitely means that as from 1st versity of Malaya the status of an January, 1962, all grants in aid to autonomous, separate national Uni­ partially assisted schools will stop­ versity for the Federation, to be known that is the meaning of the word as the University of Malaya. "appointed". But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Deputy Prime Minister has said Sir, this intention to set up a separate before that this transitional period is national University in Kuala Lumpur 10 yearS-:we have only passed five has been generally known for some years and as several members of the time and has been fully accepted by Alliance also have expressed apprehen­ the other two parties · concerned, sion over this and have asked for namely, the present University of assurances-I would like to 'move, Mr. Malaya and the Government of Singa­ Speaker, Sir, that we delete the word pore. The accepted plan is to establish, "appointed" .and substitute therefor the instead of the two present semi­ word "prescribed". Mr. Speaker, Sir, autonomous Divisions of the University there is not much difference we can of Malaya, two fully-fledged separate say, but "appointed" date definitely and autonomous Universities. means the 1st of January, 1962, but The Division in Kuala Lumpur is "prescribed" date will give that to become the University of Malaya privilege and the power and the honour under this Bill. The Division in Singa­ to our Minister to fix a certain date pore will also become a separate be it 1967, be it 1963 or be it 1980. University under Singapore legislation. We give him that honour and I hope he will accept it in that sense. The new Constitution of the Uni­ versity is contained in the Schedule to Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, this Bill. Substantially this Constitution Sir, I am sorry I cannot accept that represents a return to the 1949 amendment because the Government Constitution of the University of has already decided the appointed date Malaya-the Constitution which was of 1st January, 1962. enacted when the University was first Mr. Speaker: The question is the founded in Singapore. deletion of the word "appointed" in This new Constitution will replace line 3 of clause 136 and substitute the Constitution approved by the therefor the word "prescribed". Federal Legsilative Council on the Amendment put, and negatived. 28th of October 1958 when my Honourable Friend, Enche' Mohd. Clauses 130 to 140 inclusive ordered Khir Johari successfully moved the to stand part of the Bill. University of Malaya (Amendment) Preamble ordered to stand part of Bill, 1958. That Constitution, while the Bill. following the 1949 Constitution as much as possi)fi'e. had to make changes Bill reported with amendment: read to provide for the two Divisions and the third time and passed. for central machinery to hold the Divisions together. 'fllE UNIVERSITY OF MALAYA BILL The present central apparatus of the University will no longer be necessary. Second Reading However, the Bill does provide in The Minister of Education (Enche' Clause 65 for a Joint Winding up Abdul Rahman): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I Committee to wind up the affairs of beg to move that a Bill intituled "'an the present University. I do not think Act to provide for the establishment it would be proper to legislate for any and incorporation of the University of further central machinery in this Bill Malaya and for matters connected but I would ·like to express the hope therewith" be read a second time~ that · the two Universities will find it 2129 20 OCTOBER 1961 2130 good to establish by agreement mitted to me and carefully considered between themselves permanent liaison by me and I submitted the draft Bill arrangements (in which I hope the for the agreement of my Cabinet Governments would be suitably in­ colleagues. Apart from minor drafting cluded) by which they may keep in alterations, the only change which the the closest touch and help each other Government has made in the draft to develop. · agreed with the University is the addition of the proviso to aause 47 In his speech at the University of the Schedule. This proviso is Convocation last June, when the necessary. It seeks to safeguard the University conferred upon him a admission of Government scholars to richly-deserved Honorary Degree, my the University provided they satisfy Honourable Friend, the Deputy Prime the entrance requirements which are Minister said that the change · ih the laid down by the University. status of the University should not be regarded merely as "split" as it is so Sir, in all material respects both the often inelegantly called. He made it Bill and the Schedule, as I have said, clear that this was not a parting of ways follow previous legislation which has and was not a change arising merely been well tested by experience. The from the present political division Constitution confers upon the Uni­ between the Federation and Singapore. versity the right of managing its own He said that it was a logical outcome affairs and a degree of autonomy which of the increasing demand for University is proper to its status and dignity as a education both in Singapore and in University. the Federation. This is now of such The Government, Sir, is determined dimensions that the creation of the two that our own University here in Kuala separate brother Universities has Lumpur shall be, by the highest become necessary in the best intere:lsts standards, a first class ·teaching and of all. research institution which will stand I believe that this view is accepted comparison with the best in the world. by both Divisions of the present A very fine start has already been University and by the Government of made in the Pantai Valley and great Singapore. I have been in close touch credit is due to all those who have with my opposite number in Singapore built up the Kuala Lumpur Division over the terms of this Bill and we have during the last three or four years. agreed that the two new Constitutions There are already faculties of Arts, should, as far as pc)ssible, be similar Science and Engineering. There are and that the transitional provisions, in flourishing Departments of Agriculture, particular-which are in Part VII of Economics, Malay and Indian Studies. the Schedul~should be completely Departments of Chinese and Islamic in tune; I am grateful to him for his Studies are being created. Already help and co-operation in this respect there is a wide range of achievement and I hope that our joint efforts will in that beautiful campus. A Faculty establish two first class Universities, of Medicine is to be established, brothers in learning and in achieve­ beginning I hope in 1963. ment. The objective of the Government, This new Constitution was discussed and of the University authorities, is to at a Joint Committee of Government build up a truly national University and University representatives in Kuala as the apex of our educational system. Lumpur. This Committee reached It is intended, and this principle is complete accord and the draft Con­ fully accepted by the University, to stitution was subsequently submitted to introduce gradually the use of the a joint meeting of the J

Persekutuan Tanah Melayu. In such there is a real chance of this under a capacity the University of Malaya the terms of this Bill which I commend can always rely upon the full support for the approval of the House and of Federation Government, financially which I now have the honour to move. and otherwise, and the Government will be no less jealous than the The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun University itself of the academic Haji Abdul Razak): Mr. Speaker, Sir, standards of our University, their I beg to second the motion. maintenance and their improvement. Dr. Burhanuddin bin Mohd. Noor Sir, under Clause 53 of the Schedule (Besut): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ada-lah menyokong pada dasar-nya the Chancellor of the New University 2 of Malaya will be appointed by the Rang Undang ini, kerana telah di- Yang di-Pertuan Agong after con­ susun dengan elok untok menegakkan sultation with the present Chancellor. University Persekutuan Tanah Melayu. I am sure that the House will agree Oleh kerana kesuntokan masa, jadi that the time has come for the saya tujukan perchakapan saya kapada appointment of a Malayan Chancellor. maksud sahaja. Pada muka 22 mana- kala saya perhatikan wakil2 yang The present Chancellor, the Right hendak mengambil bahagian dalam Hon'ble Mr. Malcolm Macdonald has University ini, saya dapati Dewan himself been of this view for some Bahasa dan Pustaka tidak ada wakil- time, and over three years ago, he nya. Tetapi di-sini ada Council of the offered to stand aside so that a Malayan Branch of the Royal Asiatic Malayan Chancellor could be appointed Society, dan sa-tahu saya council in his place. As my Hon'ble Friend, ini di-Singapura, sudah-kah ia-nya my predecessor as Minister of Edu­ di-daftarkan di-Persekutuan Tanah cation, said, when he introduced the Melayu ini? Dan kenapa-kah Dewan 1958 University Bill, this gracious offer Bahasa dan Pustaka tidak di-masok- of his again showed his'deep under­ kan, sedangkan ia-nya itu ada-lah standing of the wishes of the people menjadi pokok yang pertama untok of this country and the sincerity with memperkembangkan bahasa dan per- which he approaches our problems and pustakaan negeri ini yang sangat rapat our aspirations. He has been Chancellor hubongan-nya dengan University? of the old University of Malaya ever since it was founded in 1949 and the Memandangkan kapada keadaan itu- services he has rendered to that lah saya berharap dasar (policy) University are well-known. They University ini hendak-lah sunggoh2 have been greatly valued by the berchorak kebangsaan—berteraskan ke­ University and appreciated by the bangsaan dan kebudayaan negeri ini— Governments and I wish. Sir, to pay yang sa-suai dengan perkembangan a tribute to our distinguished outgoing timor, dan jangan-lah sampai terbawa2 Chancellor for his incomparable lagi dengan chara kebaratan. Dengan services to our University. iaian ini kita bersama2 mengetahui bahawa University itu-lah sa-bagai I hope, Sir, that this Bill will find dapor yang akan menchorakkan satu favour in all quarters of the House. keadaan makanan budi dan akhlak It is in the highest degree undesirable satu2 negeri dan bagitu juga satu that our University should become a achuan bagi satu bangsa dan kebuda­ subject for political controversy. The yaan hingga ka-punchak pelajaran autonomy which this Constitution tinggi. Dengan kerana itu-lah saya confers upon the University is intended harap University ini akan dapat to maintain its position outside party membentok kebangsaan dan kebudaya­ politics and to enable the University an yang berteraskan kebangsaan dan to develop into a citadel of learning kebudayaan negeri ini. and research which will earn the respect, not only of Malayans, but Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, also of the whole world. I believe that Sir, it is unfortunate that such an 2133 20 OCTOBER 1961 2134 important Bill should come at the end other. If it is not good to have even of a very heavy session which is also a few, then why should the Govern­ a very exciting one. However, we of ment try to increase its representation, the Socialist Front welcome this as you will see in the Schedule, page intention to set up the University, and 11. When we come to the Committee I am glad to note that the Minister Stage of the Bill, I would like to has mentioned in passing that it will propose certain amendments and I be an autonomous University. I hope hope that the Minister will accept them that he would not give the word in the true spirit. "autonomous" his own definition, as Sir, another matter which I would he so often likes to do. I have consulted like to mention—perhaps it might have the Oxford Dictionary which I have escaped notice—is that there is no here, and it is stated that "autonomous" provision to prevent persons, who have means "the right of self-government; certain pecuniary interests or vested personal freedom; freedom of the will; interests, from being appointed to the a self-governing community." In other University Council and other organs. words, the University should be a Mr. Speaker, Sir, you know very well self-governing community. In the words that our University is expanding, and of the Director of Education in this it is really not desirable that certain country when the first University of directors of companies should have a Malaya Bill was introduced he said, say in the Council of the University, "There should be no interference by as definitely you would agree that they any Government in the affairs of the have vested interests. Thank you. University. It should be an independent corporation, not controlled by Govern­ Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: Mr. ment." But is it so? It may be to a Speaker, Sir, we of the Peoples' certain extent, but I do not think that Progressive Party welcome this Bill, it is entirely so, as I will show later on. which seeks to establish a University which will be autonomous. Of course, The Carr-Saunders Commission said just because this Bill says that it is that to give a little representation of going to be autonomous, it does not the Government in the University mean that it will be necessarily free Council was already a considerable from governmental interference— limitation of autonomy—that is to have governmental interference can be any Government representation at all. carried out in so many ways. It will be Now, if that is so, then I do not appreciated that with the coming into know how the Government itself can being of this University, there will interfere with the activities of such an commence the building of a generation intellectual body. whose outlook will be conditioned by Mr. Speaker, Sir, recently I was told what happens in that University, and that a group of students wanted to I do hope that the Government will form an organisation—the University maintain its intention, if indeed that Socialist Club—but it is regrettable is its intention, of allowing this that the Minister should have thought University to build up a generation it fit to intervene and even brought without regard to political ideology this matter up to the Cabinet. If this professed by the Government in power. is not interference, then what is it? There must be no attempt whatsoever If our Government cannot trust the on the part of Government to make highest body of intellectuals to manage any move for the regimentation of the their own affairs through their own minds of University students in this organs, then I think we have really country. There must be no attempt at sunk very low. Sir, I hope that the brain-washing of University students, Government will not try to interfere in so that they may grow up to profess the affairs of the University. It is not the political beliefs held by any satisfactory. It has in this Bill before Government which may for the time us, in the Schedule, tried to increase being be in power. Now, how can a its. representation by some means or Government do these things, if it can 2135 20 OCTOBER 1961 2136 control the publications of the Uni­ our University, whether we like it or versity, if it can control the formation not. Let it not be said one day that of groups within the University, if it for the sake of democracy in Malaya can control the students by preventing we have killed the freedom of speech their travels to gain knowledge and in our University. experience? There are a dozen ways The other matter which I would in which Government can interfere with like to touch upon, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the University, if it wants to. is that I am glad to hear that there Now, let us for example take what have been such nice buildings put up is a recognised practice in universities in the Pantai Valley, but let us not in other parts of the world. Students hope that we will similarly follow the who have some common interest join University of Singapore, because I, together to form a club; if they are unfortunately, had the experience of socialists, they may wish to form a having been educated in the University University Socialists' Club. Naturally, of Singapore, when it was the Raffles they must be permitted to do so. College and the history of that College, Similarly, you will have a University and the history of the University, Liberals Club, or University Alliance seems to be this: firstly, they produce Club, or University Progressives' Club. people who ultimately become clowns It is up to them to decide how they on the television; secondly, they wish to progress in their political produce people from foreign countries ideology. If the Government would who come here to become lecturers keep faith with the declared intention, and do their PH. D.—their doctorate as declared to-day, then we feel that degrees—while they are teaching here. there is a bright future for this country I know of one person, who is a and its future generation of University Professor in English, who later on did students and graduates. a doctorate degree at the expense of the students' essays, who ultimately Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr. Speaker, obtained his doctorate, left the country Sir, I also rise to welcome this Bill, and became a lecturer in a provincial and in doing so I would like to pass university of England, and ultimately a few remarks, some of which have after many many years of struggle been touched on by my Honourable became a lecturer in one of the better friend the Member for Menglembu known English universities. and my Honourable friend the Member for Seberang Selatan in regard to the I happen to know that in England basic principle that if universities want there is a radio doctor; let us hope to flourish there must be complete that there will be no radio lawyers independence. from the professional rank of the University. I think, for the sake of the Sir, throughout the history of the future, let us remind the people who struggle of mankind, as I am sure the are going to run our University that Honourable the Minister of Works, we must not produce also people who Posts and Telecommunications will say, would not do research but who would the greatest thinkers of this world have produce tracts from time to time or come from the universities. little pamphlets in the name of Dato' V, T. Sambanthan: Not neces­ research. Further, we hope that the sarily. University, since a university must produce research books, will encourage Enche' Lim Kean Siew: In our students to produce theses which can Education Bill, which we discussed be published, and not hidden away in this morning, it is stated that the the shelves of our libraries for the system of education should also reference of our would-be professors, promote political development. So, who need to look to student work for since we are going to promote political sources of materials in order to obtain development in our secondary schools, their doctorates. Let us hope that no we must have political development in foreign lecturers would come to Malaya 2137 20 OCTOBER 1961 2138

to do their PH. D. in our University (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) like some professors have done in Singapore. Clauses 1 to 12 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill. It is, I think, also true that we must now try to impose our will upon the Schedule— students, and we must make sure, on Section 13: the other hand, that there will be no public performances by our teaching Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, staff in the University no damaging Sir, I would like to refer to Section rivalry. I understand, Mr. Speaker, Sir, 13 (k), page 11, which says, "such that already in Singapore there is a representatives of the Guild of shortage of staff. Why? It is because Graduates as may be prescribed by of monopoly and rivalry—there are Statute"—that is to the Court. I would people who will prevent other people like to suggest for the Minister's from doing research and not co-operate consideration the stipulation of a with other people in order that they number, and that is "10" representa­ themselves might make a name for tives of the Guild of Graduates—would themselves. the Minister care to consider it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do really hope Mr. Speaker: What is your amend­ that we will be able to produce a first ment? class University in Malaya. I do really Enche' V. Veerappen: Sir, to amend hope that we will produce a University the word "such" by substituting for it with the traditions of the best Uni­ the word "ten" and to delete or leave versities in England, France, Germany out all the words after "Graduates"; and so on. And, finally, I do hope that then section 13 (k) will read, "ten we will be able to produce a liberal representatives of the Guild of Gradu­ education through this University. ates;" The Assistant Minister of Education Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, (Enche' Abdul Hamid Khan): Mr. Sir, I am sorry, I cannot accept that. Speaker, Sir, I think Honourable Members have expressed their views Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker, on this Bill and their support for it. Sir, we have heard the Honourable There is only one point which I would the Minister of Education telling us like to reply to—that is the point that he cannot accept the amendment. raised by the Honourable Member for In the course of speaking just now, Besut. The suggestion from the my colleague the Honourable Member Honourable Member for Besut will be from Seberang Selatan has pointed out taken care of under Clause 13 (m). his reasons, and it appears to me that in the old Ordinance a specific number Various Honourable Members have "10" was prescribed as representatives raised the question of the University from the Guild of Graduates; and since being autonomous and the various the Minister cannot agree to "10", aspects of autonomy. This, Mr. may we know the reasons as to why Speaker, Sir, will of course be taken he disagrees with the proposal? Is it care of and the views expressed passed his intention to reduce representation on to the University authorities. from the Guild of Graduates and is Question put, and agreed to. he aware of a resolution adopted at a meeting of the Guild of Graduates Bill accordingly read a second time demanding for representation? and committed to a Committee of the whole House. Enche' Abdul Rahman: Sir, I think it is better to leave it as it is because House immediately resolved itself this is flexible. into a Committee on the Bill. Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Then, can Bill considered in Committee. the Honourable Minister assure us that 2139 20 OCTOBER 1961 2140 as far as the Guild of Graduates is Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, concerned, they will have the same Sir, I beg to move that this Bill be proportion of representation as in the reported back to the House. old Ordinance? Question put, and agreed to. Enche' Abdul Rahman: The repre­ House resumed. sentation will be prescribed by Statute to be prepared by the University of Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, Malaya. Sir, I think I have left out an amend­ Amendment put, and negatived. ment to the Schedule. Enche' Abdul Rahman: Sir, may I Mr. Speaker: You must move now take up the Government amendment? that this Bill be reverted back to the I beg to move an amendment to Committee. That is the only thing you Section 13 of the Schedule as per slip can do now. If that is agreed by this circulated to Honourable Members— House—it must be agreed by the that is to add the following new House—then I can make this House paragraph immediately after paragraph go back to Committee, not otherwise. (f) of this section— Otherwise you will have to do it at the next meeting. "(g) Eleven persons one appointed by each Ruler or Governor of a State". Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, and to re-number the present para­ Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be graphs (g) to (n) of this section as re-committed back to the Committee paragraphs (h) to (o). of the whole House. Amendment put, and agreed to. Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification. Perhaps Section 13, as amended, ordered to the Honourable Member would like an stand part of the Schedule. adjournment and then bring this matter Section 15— up at half-past-eight, because I do not Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, think he knows under which Order he Sir, I would like to propose another would have to move such re-committal. amendment under Section 15 of the I do not think there is such an Order Schedule as per slip circulated to as suggested by him. Honourable Members—that is to add Mr. Speaker: Honourable Members immediately after paragraph (/) of the I must look up the Standing Orders first part of this section the following on this point as to how to revert this paragraph— House back to Committee. I think I "(g) Two representatives of the Con­ better suspend this sitting now until ference of Rulers". 8.30 to-night. and to re-number present paragraphs Sitting suspended at 6.30 p.m. (g) to (j) as (h) to (k). Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, Sitting resumed at 8.30 p.m. Sir, I would like here to propose an amendment to Section 15 (j)—that is (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) the number of persons to be elected by the Guild of Graduates be increased THE UNIVERSITY OF MALAYA from 4 to 5. BILL RE-COMMITTAL Mr. Speaker: Do you accept that? The Minister of Education (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Haji Talib): Mr. Enche' Abdul Rahman: Yes, Sir, Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, I accept that amendment. That the University of Malaya Bill be Amendments put, and agreed to. re-committed to a Committee of the whole House in respect of sub-section 1 (d) of Section 15, as amended, ordered to Section 15 and in respect of Section 58 stand part of the Schedule. of the Schedule under S.O. 59. 2141 20 OCTOBER 1961 2142

The Assistant Minister of Education Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr. Speaker, (Enche' Abdul Hamid Khan): Sir, I Sir, I would like to speak in support beg to second the motion. of the proposal put forward by my Honourable friend the Member for Enche' V. Veerappen: I would also Seberang Selatan. I think Honourable like to include an amendment. Members of this House are aware that there is a trend nowadays for leading Mr. Speaker: When it comes to public figures, for leading political Committee? figures, to be put on Boards of Enche' V. Veerappen: Yes, Sir. I Directors of various companies; and would like to move an amendment in very often when we appoint people to respect of sub-section (3) of Section 15. the University Council, or when we That is to add appoint people to various Boards, it is not uncommon that we appoint public Mr. Speaker: This motion is for the figures—and even more conspicuous re-committal of the Bill to Committee we appoint political figures: by political only, and since you have moved this, figures I mean people who are asso­ I can add that also. ciated with the governing parties. So, in the light of this, it very often Question put, and agreed to. happens that certain Boards have such people. House immediately resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House Now, let us take, for example, the in respect of Sections 15 and 58 of the University. In the next few years, it Schedule to the Bill. will be having many construction works Bill considered in Committee. costing millions of dollars, and it is thus undesirable that anybody, who is (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) appointed to the University Council, should be associated with contracting Schedule: Section 15— companies, companies which will be submitting tenders to the University— Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, and such tenders will be considered by Sir, I beg to propose an amendment to the University Council after considera­ Section 15, sub-paragraph (1) (d)—that tion by the Tenders Board. It will be is to delete the words "by the Deans very embarrassing for anybody, who is of Faculties" in line 1. serving on the Board of Directors of such a company, to also serve in the Amendment put, and agreed to. University Council, because there he Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, will be asked to decide as to whether Sir, I beg to move an amendment to his own firm, or the company in which Section 15, sub-paragraph (3)—that is he is a director, should be given the to add the following words after the contract. I feel, it is embarrassing to word "Council" in line 4, "and no the person concerned and to the person having a pecuniary or vested University to have people in such interest in the University shall be category serving in the Council—and elected or appointed to the Council". I think that there should be a general provision in this Bill which should set Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a very it out very clearly; we do not want important principle involved in this. a case in which, if it is not set out We have reason to believe that there clearly, very often it may so happen have been cases where even people with that a person, who may have pecuniary vested interests have become, or have interest, will accept position. If we been appointed, Chairman of the Uni­ have a provision of this sort, people versity Council; and, therefore, I think will be in a position to know that if this should not be repeated and I hope they are appointed and if they want the Honourable Minister will accept to serve on the Council, then they this amendment. cannot continue as directors of com- 2143 20 OCTOBER 1961 2144 mercial organisations, which may have know that Members of the Ministerial a pecuniary or vested interest in the Bench, for example, cannot become University—and it is up to them to directors of a company. This amend­ tell the Minister concerned, "Thank ment which is suggested by my you very much, I am afraid I cannot Honourable friend is a harmless thing, serve, because my company will have and I see no reason why we should some pecuniary interest in the Uni­ come to a slanging match. versity." Sir, this is a constructive suggestion put forward by my Honour­ Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, able friend the Member for Seberang Sir, the Government would agree Selatan and I hope it will be accepted. entirely with the Honourable Members of the Socialist Front in that if you The Minister of Internal Security have a pecuniary interest in a particular and Minister of the Interior (Dato' contract, you should not take part in Dr. Ismail): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the the proceedings thereof—we cannot amendment moved by an Honourable agree more with Honourable Members Member of the Socialist Front may of the Socialist Front on that. In fact, be clear to the Socialist Front but not I have a shrewd idea whom the to the rest of the House, because the Honourable Member of the Socialist definition or meaning of "pecuniary or Front is referring to and, I think, he vested interest" may be, from the point will agree with me that the person is of view of the Socialist Front, clear to not a member of the Alliance. In fact, its members, but not to other Members as Head of the Treasury, I had of the House. Now, Sir, if I contribute occasion to look into this very incident, a sum of $100 to the University, am where a Member of the University I debarred from serving on the Council, Council voted on a contract in which just because I have a pecuniary or a firm of which he was a director was vested interest there? What is meant interested. I think the Honourable by vested interest? A person who Member for Seberang Selatan and I at donated money may have a vested least see eye to eye on this issue, but interest. This is clearly an amendment that is not really the point. In that which has come from the Socialist particular case, there was a remedy Front because they look at the matter open to us and it eventually happened from one particular angle. I think this that that particular person was told House must look at it from a very not to vote on that contract. I, there­ broad angle. It may be that in future fore, suggest that the remedy is quite one of the members of the Socialist simple. The rules lay down that if you Front may donate a large sum of are interested in a contract, or if the money to the University—it may be firm of which you are a director is that the Member who speaks on the interested in the contract, you are not question of finance may be donating supposed to vote on it—and, in fact, that. Will the University be deprived we did manage to stop the member of this because of this cynical approach from voting on that particular contract. to the question of the University. This Therefore, I think, this amendment is is surely an amendment which, let quite unnecessary. As my Honourable alone being accepted by the House, friend the Minister of Internal Security should not even be considered. has pointed out, how do you define vested interest, what exactly is vested Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr. Speaker, interest, I do not know what it means. Sir, is the Honourable the Minister of the Interior challenging us to give Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, names? If this will help him to under­ Sir, in view of the assurance given stand things more clearly, we are by the Minister of Finance and in view prepared to give names of people who of the admission, so to say, I would have pecuniary interests who have like to withdraw the amendment. been members of the Board. We all (Applause). 2145 20 OCTOBER 1961 2146

Section 15, as amended, ordered to The Bill now before the House stand part of the Schedule. provides for the issue from the Section 58— Consolidated Fund of a sum of $121 million which is calculated to provide Enche' Abdul Rahman: Mr. Speaker, for the service of the Government for Sir, I beg to move an amendment to about two months, as it is anticipated Section 58 of the Schedule as per that the Supply Act will have become amendment slip circulated to Honour­ law not later than the end of February, able Members—that is to leave out 1962. the whole section and add a new section as follows: This procedure, is similar to that adopted last year except that the "58 (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 13, the first Court of the present Bill includes a schedule setting University shall consist of— out how the sum of $121 million shall (a) the Chancellor; be applied between the various Heads (b) the Pro-Chancellors; of Expenditure. (c) the Vice-Chancellor; and Sir, I beg to move. (d) such other members of the Court of the University set up under the Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Sir, I beg University of Malaya Ordinance, 1959, as are resident in the to second the motion. Federation. Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): (2) Such Court shall continue in Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek existence until such time, not being later than six months from Foundation Day, clarification from the Honourable the as a Court is constituted in accordance Minister of Finance. According to the with Section 13." Explanatory Statement given in the Amendment put, and agreed to. Bill, it reads as follows— Section 58, as amended, ordered to "To provide for the possibility that Parliament may not have passed the stand part of the Schedule. Supply Bill for 1962 by the end of 1961, Bill reported with amendment; read it is necessary to make provision for expenditure in 1962 for the period from the third time and passed. the 1st of January, 1962 until the date the Supply Bill for that year becomes THE CONSOLIDATED FUND (EX- law. This Bill, pursuant to Article 102 (a) seeks to authorise the issue of the sum PENDITURE ON ACCOUNT) BILL of one hundred and twenty-one million Second Reading dollars from the Consolidated Fund for such purpose." The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I Let us now look at Article 102, and beg to move that a Bill intituled Article 102 has this to say— "an Act to apply a sum out of the "Parliament shall have power in respect Consolidated Fund to the service of of any financial year— the year ending on the thirty-first day (a) before the passing of the Supply of December, 1962" be read a second Bill, to authorise by law expendi­ time. ture for part of the year; (b) to authorise by law expenditure As it is uncertain whether it would for the whole or part of the year be practicable to pass the Supply Bill otherwise than in accordance with authorising expenditure for the year Articles 99 to 101, if owing to the magnitude or indefinite character ending 31st December, 1962 before the of any service or to circumstances end of 1961 owing to the possibility of unusual urgency it appears to that the dates for the next sitting of Parliament to be desirable to do this House might be altered, it is so." necessary to make provision for It appears to me that this year it is Government expenditure from 1st the view of the Honourable Minister January, 1962, until such date as the that the Supply Bill cannot be passed Supply Bill for 1962 is passed by in the month of November. So it is Parliament. logical for us here, at least, to know 2147 20 OCTOBER 1961 2148

the reason as to why the Supply Bill that it is very inconvenient to alter cannot be presented to this House in dates which have been fixed sometime the usual time, because as he is aware in advance. He speaks about incon­ Articles 99 to 101 of our Constitution venience to judges and lawyers. I can make specific provision with regard to assure him that an alteration of dates the Supply Bill. As we are no doubt would be most inconvenient to the aware, if we are asked to approve Treasury, Sir, and to me in particular, something, at least we must be told and if we do decide eventually to the reasons as to why it is necessary, change dates, we do so not because and I am afraid the Honourable the we want to irritate the Honourable Minister of Finance has always been Member from Menglembu but because very reluctant to give us the reasons we have got no alternative. It is as for this action. I would therefore very simple as all that. much appreciate it, if the Minister can take the trouble to elaborate his reasons Now, I tried to make it clear in my for doing so. speech that there was a possibility that we might not be able to pass a Supply Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: Mr. Bill before the end of this year because Speaker, Sir, I think it was at the Honourable Members must remember beginning of last year that I raised the that under the Standing Orders, we question of the alteration of dates of have to allow very nearly, taking all meetings of Parliament and, I think, things together, three weeks for the the Honourable Prime Minister gave Supply Bill to go through this Lower us an assurance that dates will be set House. It must then go to the Senate well in advance and would be adhered and, as Honourable Members are to except for special reasons. The aware, the Standing Order gives the reason I gave was that we and many Senate power to delay such a Bill for people keep dates free for meetings of a month and the Government, there­ Parliament—and, to give an example, fore, has to take precautions to ensure in the case of those Members of that if, for example, the Senate should Parliament, who happen to be Mem­ take it into its head to delay the Bill bers of the Bar, they are placed in a by, say, a month, it will not be possible difficult position, because when they for us to pay for the services of the know that there is a Parliament Government during the first few months meeting, say, for example, the Budget of 1962. This is nothing new as I tried Meeting in December lasting three to point out in my speech. We did the weeks, three weeks are reserved—and same thing last year but we managed, the courts oblige them by fixing happily, both from the point of view important cases on other days. Now, of Honourable Members of the if these dates are going to be altered, Opposition and from my own particular they are going to have a very un­ point of view, to pass the Supply Bill pleasant time in the courts. The judges before the end of last year and so are not inclined to delay criminal everything went well. But we must work—similarly in the magistrate take precautions to ensure that if there courts—and they will be put in a very is some unforeseen delay, the Govern­ difficult position indeed. Therefore, I ment Service will not in any way dare say that other people in other suffer. professions would also find themselves inconvenienced. Therefore, I would ask Question put, and agreed to. the Minister concerned to state the reasons clearly—and unless it is really Bill accordingly read a second time necessary, the original dates should be and committed to a Committee of the adhered to. whole House. House immediately resolved itself Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, into a Committee on the Bill. Sir, I cannot agree more with the Honourable Member from Menglembu Bill considered in Committee 2149 20 OCTOBER 1961 2150

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) I do not anticipate, Sir, that there will be any opposition to this Bill, but Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand if there is any Honourable Member part of the Bill. who feels that he does not need this Schedule ordered to stand part of increase of allowance, 1 am quite the Bill. prepared, and I think my Honourable colleague, the Minister of Finance, will Bill reported without amendment: agree, that payment of this increase to read the third time and passed. the Honourable Member can be suspended. THE PARLIAMENT (MEMBERS' REMUNERATION) (AMEND- Therefore, Sir, I accordingly beg to MENT) BILL move that the Bill be read a second Second Reading time. The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I beg to Haji Abdul Razak): Mr. Speaker, Sir, second the motion. I beg to move that the Bill intituled "an Act to amend the Parliament Members' Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr. Remuneration Act, 1961" be read a Speaker, Sir, I was shocked to hear second time. that Members of parties other than from the Alliance had made representa­ Sir, it is with great pleasure indeed tions to the Honourable Prime Minister that I move this very short and very for this increase. I think in fairness to simple Bill. As Honourable Members the parties that are sitting on this side are aware, at present the remuneration of the House, the Honourable Deputy of a Member of this House is $500 Prime Minister should make it clear a month and this remuneration was whether any political parties sitting fixed following the remuneration of here have made that request, or Members of the former Legislative whether any individuals sitting here Council, but with the change in the have ever made that request, because character of this House after the I state here and now, without any fear, election of 1959—now all Houourable that no member of the PPP sitting here, Members are elected to this House—it as far as I know, had made any is felt that there is a need to review request to the Honourable Prime the rates of allowances. Honourable Minister; and if that clarification is Members of this House, having been given, in fairness to us, I would indeed elected by the people, have responsibili­ appreciate that very very much from ties to their constituencies and they the Honourable the Deputy Prime have not only to be in constant touch Minister. But if any members of the with the happenings in their con­ PPP have made a request to the stituencies, with the views of their Honourable Minister, I should like to constituents, but they have also to know it as well. make visits to other parts of the country. And in recent months repre­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this question of sentations have been made to the Prime remuneration for Members, I fully Minister not only by members of the realise that it is a matter of importance Government party but by others that not only to the Members concerned but the present rate of allowance is also to the electorates who voted us inadequate for Members of this House here. I was waiting to hear of the to undertake their responsibilities. The reasons for this increase. I have heard Government has given this matter very the reasons, but I think more reasons careful consideration and has come to are necessary—for example the the conclusion that there is justification Honourable Mover has said that a for an increase. Therefore, it is pro­ Member has to be in touch with his posed that the rate of allowance for constituents, and for the usual services Members of this House should be an elected member gives to his increased from $500 to $750. electorate. That is very right and very 2151 20 OCTOBER 1961 2152

proper, but has any reasonable It is very interesting, however, to investigation been made as to whether notice that the monthly allowance of Members up to now have been carry­ $500 to the members of the Dewan ing out their duties to justify this Negara has not been increased and that increase—because, Sir, from what we the remuneration for members of this hear, as far as the Alliance members House has been increased by $250. are concerned, they do not do their Now we all realise that if a person duty to their electorates? There are has to do work he needs to spend constant grumbling and murmuring money; we all realise that many of us from the electorates in constituencies here have bought cars to travel in their where they were fortunate or constituencies and they have still to unfortunate enough to elect Alliance pay hire purchase rentals for those representatives—they say, "They never cars—and I still remember one come and see us. We cannot get in member in this House asking for a touch with them. We cannot see their motor car loan to buy a motor car. faces when we want to". And if that We realise all those difficulties. Of is a fact, then of course the reason course, if I say that I personally object given there is not substantiated. I to it; then people will say that I don't should like clarification on that issue. need it, "Lim Kean Siew has got Has any check being made on plenty of money (Laughter);" and if I Honourable Members? As far as the say on behalf of my Party that I do Opposition is concerned, of course, I not object to it, then people will say would like to say that I think we have I want the money. I really do not done our duty. It is a matter of know what to say. I must say that opinion there. the Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister ought at least to say why we A suggestion was put forward that if need this $250. What is the basis for there is any Member who does not like this $250? Now if we say $500 is for this increase, the Treasury will be glad remuneration and the sum $250 is for to keep it. I completely disagree out of pocket allowance, for which (Laughter), but if the Treasury would accounts have to be submitted, then at give me an undertaking to remit my least the people in this country will increase of $250 to a Chinese school be quite happy that their money is not that does not want to be converted misused. Shall I put it this way—there into a National-type School, I would are some people who can afford it and give that authority here and now—on there are some people who cannot that undertaking being given to me— afford it; there are some people who to forward it monthly to a school have great difficulties of travel and which I know. there are some people who have no difficulties of travel, like the Honour­ Enche' Lim Kean Siew: It is very able the Prime Minister, who can get embarrassing that in support of the the V.I.P. Cessna; there are some Government's Bill, the Government people who travel and some people should mention others than themselves, who do not travel; and there are some because we all know that more than a people who take the money and put it dozen times at least we have made in their pockets and do not use it at proposals which were reasonable but all. Are we going to allow those type which have been rejected by the of people to profit at public expense? Government. I know this is very On the other hand, we know that there embarrassing: some of us here have are certain wards with areas which no money; some of us have money and are so large that it is quite a problem we do not need this money. We are to travel from one point of that called Honourable Members, and, of constituency to another point of the course, in the history of the parliament, same constituency, and I personally it has always been that people served know of people who have come to me in an honourable capacity—in other to borrow money—because they find it words, this is not an office for profit. difficult to travel within their con- 2153 20 OCTOBER 1961 2154 stituencies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this House, because it was purely a non­ question of monthly allowance makes party affair. Now we agree that we are it a bit difficult and may cause in the House representing the various misunderstanding, but if the thing had parties, but there are issues which been worded remuneration for expenses affect us all not as separate members or travel expenses for visiting con­ of political parties but as parliamen­ stituency, then perhaps the argument tarians. We may differ in our political might be different, and like the Member views, but surely when we belong to for Ipoh I also seek for clarification. one House we can agree at least on certain things that we think would help Enche' Othman bin Abdullah (Tanah members of the House and that would Merah): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bila enhance the reputation of the House. Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana 2 Now, Sir, I can only infer the observa­ Menteri mengemukakan Rang Undang tions made by the members of the ini maka tersebut-lah bahawa anggota Opposition bench that, by the Deputy daripada Perikatan menyokong usul Prime Minister mentioning that ini. Saya bagi pehak Persatuan Islam representations came not only from ingin juga mendapat tahu kalau sa- members of the Alliance Party but kira-nya daripada kami dengan from members of the Opposition sa-chara bertulis menuntut-nya, walau bench, therefore we may have con­ bagaimana pun tidak-lah rezki yang cocted this idea and hence they want menggolek ini kami tolak. (Ketawa). clarification from the Deputy Prime Saperti mana juga kawan saya bagi Minister who the individual members pehak Perikatan maka saperti ini tidak are who made this representation. I kami tolak, chuma satu sahaja yang said I can only infer; I am not saya hendak berchakap, Tuan Yang attributing to them. But I feel, Sir, di-Pertua, ia-itu kenapa-kah—minta 2 that the Government in this case has penjelasan sahaja—Ahli Dewan weighed the question very carefully. Negara tidak di-naikkan sa-umpama anggota Dewan Ra'ayat ini juga. Now it was mentioned by the Kedua, saya mengharapkan ta' Deputy Prime Minister that the allow­ usah-lah dengan kenaikkan anggota ance of $500 was initiated by the Dewan Ra'ayat ini menjadi anak former Legislative Council when all tangga kapada kenaikkan Ahli2 dan the members were not elected; they Menteri2 kita. were nominated. They did not have the responsibilities which elected members Enche' Mohamed Yusot bin have now and also in those days the Mahmud: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sittings of the House were also ta' hendak berchakap di-atas Bill ini, arranged in such a way that they will tetapi saya hendak berchakap terhadap conform to some of the activities of Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Ipoh. Dia the members present. But in this House kata ahli2 Perikatan ta' pernah pergi 2 of Parliament the call of the House has melawat ka-kawasan . Saya pun hairan. top priority over any member's private Saya ta' pernah tengok dia pergi ka- business or private activities. And kawasan saya. Jadi bagaimana-kah satu further in this House, at least the perkataan yang di-gunakan-nya itu Government feels that irrespective of pada hal ia-nya belom pernah datang our financial position we should be in ka-kawasan saya. a position to be equal in discharging Dato' Dr. Ismail: Mr. Speaker, Sir, our duties as parliamentarians. Some I am not at all surprised at the of us—and it is admitted that even observations made by members on the members of the Alliance Party—some Opposition bench. I had occasion to of them probably do less work than move a motion in this House for the others, but surely the criteria is, what is sake of keeping the dignity of this expected of a Member of Parliament? House, and one would have thought— That is a criterion that has weighed I would have thought—that it would heavily with the Government when we have unanimous support from the considered the question of raising 2155 20 OCTOBER 1961 2156

Members' allowances. Now we feel that receiving, and I feel that it would be the value of money also has changed— wrong in principle now to ask the that is the first. Secondly, we feel that electorate, the people who elected him, members of the House, elected mem­ to pay more than what it bargained for. bers, they come from various walks of I think there is a great danger of life: some can afford it, some cannot, politics becoming a profession in this but they all would like to perform their country and we should not encourage duties not only to their constituencies that. I have nothing further to add and but in the interest of the country. I feel I leave it to the conscience of this sure that even in the Alliance Party House. So far as I am concerned, I we have men of properties but there make the same offer as the Honourable are others who cannot afford. But Member for Ipoh, in case the Govern­ surely they should not be penalised ment wants to make sure that I do from doing their parliamentary work not use the $250 extra for myself. just because they are not so well off as some of us. I feel very hurt to hear Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Mr. all this, because we tried to make this Speaker, I would like to speak on the purely a non-party affair. We feel that matter of principles. The Honourable it is to the advantage of all and it is Member for Menglembu mentioned in the interest of all that we moved "principle" just now; but what is this this Bill, not because we feel that we principle"? The principle is the want to give it to the members of the exercise of democracy in this country. Alliance Party who are the majority in We have elected Members and some of them had been in jobs which had given the House. We sincerely feel that the greater remuneration than $500 a members of the House, if we want month. I know it for a fact that them to perform their parliamentary some Members are in real difficulties, duties fully with integrity, surely simply because they made sacrifice of should not be out of pocket, and not their professions. They gave up their only that but they should be able to jobs saying, "I will become a Member perform their duties truly well. So I of the Dewan Ra'ayat; I will try and think the Government has nothing to serve the people." These men do not hide in moving this Bill to the House. all belong to the Alliance; some belong Thank you, Sir. to the Opposition. Now, Sir, do we Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: Mr. want to penalise them for that? To-day, the Members of this House Speaker, Sir, I would like to make a are the men who will have to see to brief contribution to this debate. I the successful working of democracy. think that it is wrong in principle to On them, there is a very heavy load; make an increase at this stage how­ and we have got to help maintain the ever much it may be needed, because integrity of these Members. Telling when a Member stands for election he them simply that, because one is rich, knows exactly what he is in for—when telling them that, because some can he stood for election he knew that afford to own $20,000 or $40,000 cars, Members of Parliament were likely to and placing that as a criterion and be paid $500 a month; and knowing then saying that nobody should have that he must have felt that that would more than $500 a month, I think, is be sufficient to enable him to carry out being quite blind to the principle. his duties and obligations as a Member of Parliament. It is morally a contract Sir, if we want Members of this entered into with the electorate. House to perform their functions Indeed, when he was campaigning for properly, if we think that democracy votes, not one Member of Parliament has come to stay in this country, let told his electorate, "You elect me and us not make it the rich man's game. you have got to pay me to do work for It will be a rich man's game, if we you." It was morally understood that pay too little—it will be a game for Members who were elected would rich men, rich lawyers, rich planters, receive what their predecessors were rich estate owners, as they alone can 2157 20 OCTOBER 1961 2158 go into politics—and that I think is bad. bayar Income Tax sa-kurang2-nya We must see that ordinary men, who $250.00. are Members of Parliament can look after their families happily. I was The Minister of Health and Social rather surprised when the Honourable Welfare (Dato' Ong Yoke Lin): Mr. Member for Dato' Kramat asked Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Member what it was all about. He knows what for Menglembu has mentioned the mat­ it is all about. I hope people are honest ter of principle. This sort of increase in enough to come here and not play allowances for Members of Parliament politics. Let us be frank. Everyone of is not new at all. In other Legislatures us has known the poverty of some of in the Commonwealth, there have been the Members. We want to raise the cases of allowances having been amount because we feel that they ought increased during their term of office. to be given necessary help. The Sir, I regret very much that some Honourable Member for Dato' Kramat Members of the Opposition are play­ knows it as much as I do. But why ing politics regarding this issue. I can come to the House, and, simply for tell the House that this matter is no some political reasons say, "We do secret and has not been so for a long not want it." I think that it is wrong. time. It has been talked about and We have got to be honest, Mr. discussed—and I would not like to Speaker, Sir, and I say we must give break confidences; but if you ask that extra $250. Thank you. many Members of the Opposition to search their own hearts and say Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Saaid whether they gave us the impression (Seberang Utara): Tuan Yang di- that this Bill would be supported, you Pertua, saya bangun ingin memberi would know the answer. In point of penjelasan sadikit berkenaan dengan fact, the Government Bench kenaikan sagu hati tetap Ahli Dewan Ra'ayat. Soal ini ia-lah soal wang, Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr. Speaker, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tentu-lah ada Sir, on a point of clarification—I hope di-antara orang yang mulut-nya sahaja that it will be remembered that we kata tidak mahu tetapi hati-nya tentu on this side sought only for clarifica­ kata mahu. Sa-bagaimana yang tion, but if the Ministerial bench want telah di-terangkan, Tuan Yang di- to carry on with the debate Pertua, terbit-nya kenaikan ini ia-lah Dato' Ong Yoke Lin: Sir, we did memandang di-atas keadaan sa-tengah this in all good faith. As my Ahli Dewan Ra'ayat ini sangat susah Honourable colleague has just said, we kerana tanggong jawab-nya berat, will not allow this only to be a rich mereka kena mengeluarkan wang man's game. If that is not the feeling untok jamu2an, menderma kapada 2 2 of certain Members of the Opposition, badan kebajikan dan pertubohan I think, we on the Government bench dan menderma kapada parti. Saya telah are quite prepared to withdraw this melawat Tokyo dan ingin membuat Bill. perbandingan ia-itu bagi Majlis Cosmopolitan mendapat elaun $1,000 Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr. sa-bulan dan wakil Diet mendapat Speaker, Sir, I had not thought that $1.200 sa-bulan tiap2 sa-orang. Tiap2 this Bill would be a controversial one wakil itu ada satu bilek khas dan as shown in many of the observations mempunyai sa-orang kerani atau by Honourable Members from the sa-bagai setia-usaha yang gaji mereka Opposition in reply to my Honourable di-bayar oleh Kerajaan. colleagues on this side of the bench. Jadi kenaikan yang saperti ini, Sir, as I have said, before bringing Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sangat-lah up the proposal, the Honourable the sesuai kalau di-bandingkan dengan Prime Minister has given this matter negeri2 yang maju. Sa-lain daripada very careful consideration after repre­ itu elaun yang di-naikkan ini bukan sentations have been made to him not kita dapat semua, kerana kita kena only by Members of the Alliance but 2159 20 OCTOBER 1961 2160 also by others. It is not for me here Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Sir, on a to say who are the others. It is a point of clarification, how is the matter for them to speak up in this Government going to know whether House, but I can say on behalf of the there is full support for the Bill in the Government categorically that this is a House or not, unless it is put to the non-party matter; and if Members of vote? the Opposition do not want this Bill the Government is prepared to with­ For further clarification, somebody draw it. This is not intended for the asked for the adjournment of the Alliance Party only but for all Members House, but I do not know why. of this House—the increase of the Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, allowance is intended for every Member obviously, there appears to be no who serves in the Dewan Ra'ayat. If unanimous support for this Bill. I Members of the Opposition feel that therefore move, under Standing Order there is no need for this increase, the 62, that this Bill be withdrawn. Government is prepared to withdraw the Bill. (Applause). Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to second the motion. (Applause). Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether Question put, and agreed to. there is a Standing Order to meet this. Bill accordingly withdrawn. In view of the statement made, may I ask for a recess of ten minutes? THE CORPORATIONS DUTY Mr. Speaker: I have not yet a ORDINANCE (REPEAL) BILL proposal whether the Government is Second Reading going to withdraw this Bill. What I have heard is only, "the Government The Minister of Finance (Enche' is prepared to withdraw the Bill." Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr. to move that a Bill intituled "an Act Speaker, Sir, I am prepared to have a to repeal the Corporations Duty recess. We think we should have a Ordinance of the Straits Settlements" recess in order to let the Opposition be read a second time. make their stand clear. If they do not Sir, the Corporations Duty Ordi­ want this Bill, the Government is nance, Cap. 229 of the Laws of the prepared to withdraw it. former Straits Settlements, levies Sitting suspended at 9.35 p.m. annually in respect of movable and immovable property which belongs to Sitting resumed at 10.00 p.m. or is vested in any body corporate or incorporate, a duty at the rate of 3 THE PARLIAMENT (MEMBERS' per cent of the income or profits REMUNERATION) BILL after allowing for certain permissible deductions in the management of such WITHDRAWAL property. This Ordinance is applicable Mr. Speaker: There is no motion only to the States of Penang and before the House under Standing Order Malacca and not to the rest of the 62 for the withdrawal of the Bill. Federation. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, as I The administration of this Ordinance have made it clear, the Government before the war is somewhat shrouded position is this: if there is support in obscurity but from information from all sides of the House, then only which it has been possible to collect, Government is prepared to proceed it would appear that the duty collected with the Bill; if there is no unanimous under the Ordinance was not sub­ support for this Bill, I have no stantial. In the case of Malacca, the alternative, Sir, but to ask your amount collected was stated to be not permission under Standing Order 62 more than $100 per annum. No duty to withdraw the Bill. has been collected under this Ordinance 2161 20 OCTOBER 1961 2162

since the war, presumably because this time—at the most nine months' time. type of duty is now covered by the There is, therefore, no point in holding Income Tax Ordinance, 1947. The further Local Councils elections until effectiveness of the Ordinance has then. therefore been allowed to lapse and since it is now redundant, it is The object of this measure is to considered that it should be repealed. suspend the holding of any further The States of Malacca and Penang elections under the Local Councils have been consulted and both Govern­ Ordinance, 1952, and to extend the ments are agreeable to the proposal. term of office of existing members until such date as elections are held under Sir, I beg to move. the Local Government Elections Act, Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I beg 1960. to second the motion. I would like to inform the House Question put, and agreed to. that the terms of this Bill have been discussed in the National Council for Bill accordingly read a second time Local Government and have been and committed to a Committee of the agreed to by the Local Councils. whole House. Sir, I beg to move. House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. The Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid Bill considered in Committee. bin Awang Osman): Sir, I beg to second the motion. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Question put, and agreed to. Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Bill reported without amendment: read the third time and passed. whole House. House immediately resolved itself THE LOCAL COUNCILS (AMEND- into a Committee on the Bill. MENT) BILL Bill considered in Committee. Second Reading (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) The Assistant Minister of the Interior (Enche' Mohamed Ismail bin Mohamed Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand Yusof): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to part of the Bill. move that a Bill intituled "an Act to Bill reported without amendment: amend the Local Councils Ordinance, read the third time and passed. 1952" be read a second time. Sir, the object of this measure is THE LIFE ASSURANCE BILL clearly stated in the Explanatory Second Reading Statement at the end of the Bill before the House. Honourable Members will The Minister of Finance (Enche' recall that at the April sitting of the Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg House, it passed the Local Government to move that a Bill intituled "an Act Elections (Amendment) Act, 1961, to make further provision with respect which enables the Election Commission to policies of assurance upon human to assume responsibility for the life and the carrying on of life assurance supervision and conduct of elections business" be read a second time. to Local Councils. The Election Com­ Honourable Members will recall that mission has been making all the in April this year, when introducing necessary arrangements for the conduct the Life Assurance (Amendment) Act, of elections to Local Councils and has No. 20 of 1961, I informed the House notified me that it will be in a position that the Government intended to to hold such elections in a few months' introduce comprehensive legislation to 2163 20 OCTOBER 1961 2164 ensure the growth of a sound assurance unable to meet claims under these business in the country, and also to policies unless appropriate action is provide the maximum of protection to taken, and probably even if it is taken. policy-holders. The introduction of this The Bill, therefore, provides that no legislation had, however, to be deferred company can issue policies and as we had not then been successful continue to carry on a life assurance in recruiting an Insurance Commis­ business unless its rates of premia have sioner. I am glad to say that with been approved by an actuary. the co-operation of the Australian Government, the Government has now The life assurance business is a succeeded in securing the services of technical one. The formulation of rates an Insurance Commissioner who has of premia is a highly specialised branch already arrived in the country, and is of mathematics. The qualified people now working on our new insurance who make the necessary calculations, legislation, and I would like to take as Honourable Members know, are this opportunity to express our grateful called actuaries and they receive years appreciation of the invaluable assistance of professional training. We can only rendered to us in this respect by that be sure that premia are adequate if Government. That assistance has they are certified as such by an actuary. certainly been most timely. It is, If the premia are inadequate, the therefore, hoped that this legislation ultimate failure of the life assurance will be enacted in the not too distant company concerned, followed by future. defaults on claims and hence losses to its policy-holders, is almost a I also informed the House then that mathematical certainty. the Amendment Act of 1961 introduced earlier in the year was an interim The Bill also gives relief to the measure. Its purpose was to ensure owners of existing policies. If, and only that assurance companies had a capital if, the rates of premia can be proved of $1 million before starting business by an actuary to be inadequate, any and, therefore, had a sound financial waiting period provided by the policy foundation. In this respect the amend­ will be void and a return of premia ment was successful, but it was not can be obtained if it is applied for directed at ensuring that the companies' within six months of the date of business methods were sound. Further commencement of the legislation. legislation, again of an interim character, is now necessary to ensure Apart from the fact that existing that sound methods are adopted. companies cannot in future issue policies with inadequate premia, a new During recent months great concern company will be similarly bound. has been expressed that the activities Further, a new company will not be of some so-called "assurance com­ able to commence unless the Minister panies". These companies through of Finance is satisfied that it will advertising in the vernacular press and conduct its business in accordance with intensive canvassing have persuaded sound insurance principles. tens of thousands of uninformed people to take out policies with them. On It is appropriate that I should present indications, many of these inform Honourable Members of some people can expect to find ultimately of the unsound practices of these that their policies are valueless. Hence mushroom companies. They ask no it is urgent and imperative that the questions whatsoever about the state public be protected against the of health of the person whose life is nefarious practices of these companies. to be assured. They charge the same rates of premia irrespective of age. These mushroom companies have They impose no maximum age limit, issued policies at rates of premia that and most of the lives assured are old— are grossly inadequate. It is fairly sixty years or more. The premia would certain that in the future they will be be most inadequate even if they were 2165 20 OCTOBER 1961 2166

assuring younger and healthy lives. The both of which are standard features position is that people are being of life assurance policies the world encouraged at a comparatively small over. outlay to assure people in the sole expectation of their early death. The The facts I have put before Honour­ policies being issued by these companies able Members call for this urgent are frequently, or perhaps even legislation. I should say, however, that generally, not for the laudable purpose life assurance business in the Federation of family protection. Many people are is generally conducted along sound being encouraged to assure other lines and renders an invaluable service people, including beggars, without their to the community. Well managed knowledge and consent, if the person companies will not be affected adversely effecting the policy thinks that the life by this legislation, and the institution assured will survive the waiting period, of life assurance itself should be usually nine months and not much strengthened. longer. Before I conclude. Sir, I would like to remind Honourable Members that This is nothing more than gambling, an amendment slip has been circulated and gambling with the most serious to Honourable Members, which I hope and dangerous implications. It is the they have received, proposing an kind of gambling which could possibly amendment to Clause 4 (3) of the Bill. lead to the murder of completely The object of this amendment is to innocent people in order that profits provide an additional penalty for life might be made by one party or the assurance companies or so-called life other. Insurance plays a vital and assurance companies for starting essential role in modern society and business before the consent of the is based on the principle that when Minister has been obtained in the many people pay a small sum into a form of a certificate. It is felt that common pool, it will be fairly cheap because of the menace which exists and simple to insure themselves against now, it would have a deterrent effect disaster or loss occurring to a few. if the penalty were so framed that As such, it is a social boon of any company which commences busi­ immeasurable value. On the other ness before it is entitled to do so hand, life assurance as practised by would have to pav a further penalty the people against whom this Bill is of $1,000 a day. aimed, is a grave social menace because the object of both the company and Sir, I beg to move. the policy-holder could be to hasten the deaths of those who are assured— Dato' Dr. Ismail: Sir, I beg to in the one case, the death should take second the motion. place nine months of a policy being Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr. Speaker, taken out, and in the other, shortly Sir, we welcome this Bill, and I fully after. I think, therefore, that every agree with the views expressed by the Honourable Member in this House will Minister of Finance. The fact that agree with me that the sooner this thousands of people have fallen easy evil is wiped out from our midst, the prey to these companies of doubtful better it will be for all concerned. intentions goes to show the great deficiencies in our social security; and, The policies being issued by these as you see on the Order Paper, Sir, companies do not contain reasonable there is a motion which I hope to non-forfeiture provisions, A typical bring forward for the introduction of policy condition is that, however long a Social Security Insurance Scheme in a policy may have been in force, it this country—and I hope the Govern­ shall be void if a premium is out­ ment would be accepting it—and thus standing for two months. Further, there we would be able to provide, at least, is no arrangement whatsoever for for the great desire of the people to paid-up policies and surrender values, have security in their old age. 2167 20 OCTOBER 1961 2168

Enche' Kang Kock Seng (Batu Clause 4— Pahat): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, support this Bill before the House. Sir, Sir, I beg to move the following this is a measure which the public has amendment specified in the amend­ been waiting for since the mushroom ment slip which has already been old age insurance companies started, circulated to Honourable Members, some of which are disguised under for the purpose of which has already enterprising names. been explained. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the ratio of Clause 4 (3)— premiums paid for such old age policies is inadequate. The ultimate In line 3 after the word "dollars" add result would be that when such the following words— companies close down, their policy­ "with a further one thousand dollars for each day on which he contravenes holders would be the losers. Sir, some that sub-section." of these policy-holders are saving every cent to pay for their policies, while Amendment put, and agreed to. others are opportunists gambling on Clause 4, as amended, ordered to the death of poor human-beings. It is stand part of the Bill. estimated that over $1 million is paid as premiums on these policies, and, as Clauses 5 and 6— a result, business in the country particularly among the small traders, Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I have retailers, shop-keepers suffer. Mr. great interest in the query raised by a Speaker, Sir, the time has now come Government back-bencher with regard for the Government to remedy the to Section 6 that no penalty is situation. This exploitation of the lower provided, and since the Minister of income group of the population must Finance makes no attempt to answer, be stopped. may I take this opportunity in draw­ ing his attention to the question. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that Perhaps he would be able to enlighten Section 6 of the Bill has no provision this House as to the reason why this for consequences in the event of provision is not provided. companies failing to repay the premiums if such repayment is elected Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, by the policy-holders. Sir, there may Sir, the reason why I did not reply to be strong reasons for this omission, the point made by the Honourable and I, therefore, leave it to the Minister Member for Batu Pahat was not concerned. Sir, I believe that such a because I wished to ignore him, though provision is necessary and I hope, I realise that it is a matter of some where possible, our Minister concerned importance. The Government is aware would take the necessary steps. Thank that this is a possible loophole, and you very much, Sir. we have been giving further thought to it and if we find that this legislation Question put, and agreed to. requires further amendments they will be proposed in due course. But it is not Bill accordingly read a second time so easy, as Honourable Members will and committed to a Committee of the appreciate, to wangle money out of whole House. people of this nature. Although you might be able to win against them House immediately resolved itself legally, you might not be able to get into a Committee on the Bill. the substance or secure the result of Bill considered in Committee. your victory; but the Government is very much alive to this danger and will (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) certainly bear this in mind. Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand Clauses 5 and 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill. part of the Bill. 2169 20 OCTOBER 1961 2170

Bill reported with amendment: read Bill accordingly read a second time the third time and passed. and committed to a Committee of the whole House. THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT House immediately resolved itself ELECTIONS (AMENDMENT) into a Committee on the Bill. (No. 2) BILL Bill considered in Committee. Second Reading (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) The Assistant Minister of the Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to Interior (Enche' Mohamed Ismail): stand part of the Bill. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act to amend the Bill reported without amendment: Local Government Elections Act, read the third time and passed. I960," he read a second time. THE RUBBER EXPORT DUTY This Bill is very short and straight­ forward and the object is clearly (PENANG) BILL stated in the explanatory statement at Second Reading the end of the Bill before the House. The Election Commission recently The Minister of Finance (Enche' drew attention to a certain weakness Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I in the Local Government Elections Act, beg to move that a Bill intituled "an 1960, which, I regret to say, was not Act to provide for the payment of noticed when opportunity was taken export duty on rubber exported from to move certain amendments to Penang, and matters connected there­ this same Act in this House in April. with" be read a second time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Act provides that whenever there is a casual vacancy The Bill now before the House is among the elected Councillors of a local not only short but a straight forward authority it shall, subject to the pro­ one. Its provisions will enable export visions of this section, be filled within duty to be levied on rubber produced sixty days from the date on which it in and exported from Penang Island as occurs and an election shall be held or from 1st January, 1962. Consequently, an appointment made accordingly. as from that date export duty will The Commission pointed out that as replace the present excise duty on the law stands, the possibility exists estate rubber and the annual tree tax that it may not be informed by the on smallholder rubber which are pay­ Council in time to arrange for the able under Sections 3 (1) and 4 (1) holding of an election within sixty days respectively of the Rubber Excise of the occurrence of the vacancy, in (Penang) Ordinance, 1949. which event the vacancy could not be The annual tax, Sir, has become a filled. It is considered that this weak­ source of increasing embarrassment ness in the law must be corrected at and irritation to the rubber small­ once; hence the Bill before the House. holders on the Island for a variety of reasons. In the first place, their rubber I wish to point out to this House trees are generally old and therefore that the terms of this Bill have been low-yielding. This is not all; they discussed in the National Council for become less and less productive as Local Government and have been time goes on. Secondly, the annual tax agreed to by the Council. is fixed at so much, i.e., so many cents Sir, I beg to move. per tappable rubber tree and is payable on an arbitrarily determined average Tuan Haji Abdul Khalid: Sir, I beg number of trees to the acre. In view of to second the motion. this, the tax is payable irrespective of whether the rubber is being tapped or Question put, and agreed to. not. 2171 20 OCTOBER 1961 2172

Thirdly, the quantum of tax is based holdings. At present only a limited on the average price ruling during the acreage is being replanted on Penang year two years prior to the year in Island, if at all. It is in their interest, which it is applicable. For example, the therefore, that they should start replant­ tax for 1961 would be based on the ing their holdings before it is too late. average ruling price for the year 1959, for the simple reason that this levy I am aware that the rubber trade on would have to be determined some the Island does not welcome this time in 1960, and hence it would not proposed arrangement, and perhaps be possible to base it on the year this is putting it rather mildly. They previous to that in which it would be oppose it on the ground that any applicable. The effect of this system changes of this nature would disrupt could be that a smallholder would have its entrepot trade. While I agree that to pay a higher rate of duty than his importers of rubber who do so with counterparts on the mainland because the intention of re-exporting it, would his levy payable in a lean year, would be subject to a certain measure of be based on a price level prevailing Customs control, the Government is during a boom year, and vice versa. prepared to do everything possible to This incidence is further aggravated by ensure that such control is limited to the fact that this tax is payable in one the minimum necessary to ensure the lump sum, unlike export duty which is effective implementation of this Order, deducted from the proceeds of rubber and I am satisfied, after giving the as it is sold, though I should also add matter considerable thought, that the that it is usual to allow such payments entrepot trade in rubber will not suffer to be made in instalments. Be that as it as a result of this new system. may, it will be seen that this is a rigid formula which has all the disadvantages Out of about 32,000 tons imported inevitably associated with rigidity. into Penang Island every year—in this connection, I have taken the average No formula, however cleverly for the last three completed years— devised, can possibly take into full 7,500 tons are remitted and turned account the wide variations in yield into crepe and sheet rubber. In other occurring as between one holding and words, the real entrepot trade amounts another, particularly between those to only 24,500 tons a year. On which are planted solely with high- the other hand, a total of approxi­ yielding material on the one hand and mately 22,000 tons is imported in the those containing derelict rubber on the Principal Customs Area every year and other. In the circumstances, all that can the importers of such rubber have be done is to devise a formula which apparently found it profitable to turn would yield in tax an amount approxi­ such rubber into crepe in spite of an mately equivalent to that obtainable import duty of $20 a ton. I, there­ from a holding of average yield. Such fore, see no reason why this section of a formula must necessarily bear hardly the trade should suffer at all, because on those which are below average provision will be made in the appro­ while discriminating in favour of those priate Customs Regulations and which are above it. Customs Duties Order to exempt rubber imported into Penang Island if such On the other hand, the imposition of rubber is to be subsequently re­ export duty will not only lighten the exported. burden to which I have referred, by In view of what I have said, I now paying export duty and contributing to commend this Bill to the House. Sir, the replanting cess the smallholders on I beg to move. Penang Island will be entitled to participate in the various replanting The Minister of Commerce and schemes which have been specially Industry (Enche' Mohamed Khir bin designed to assist their brethren on the Johari): Sir, I beg to second the mainland to replant their obsolescent motion. 2173 20 OCTOBER 1961 2174

Enche' Ismail bin Idris (Penang pada fikiran Yang Berhormat ia-itu Selatan): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya dengan sebab-nya Rang Undang2 ini bangun menyokong Rang Undang2 ini, di-kuat-kuasakan maka ini akan sebab saya menyokong-nya ia-lah menjadi sa-bagai satu step, atau satu sa-belum Rang Undang2 ini di-bacha, tangga untok menjadikan Pulau Pinang maka tuan2 punya kebun2 kechil telah Principal Customs Area, dengan yang membayar chukai mengikut banyak- demikian hilang-lah hak Pulau Pinang nya pokok dalam satu ekar tanah itu. sa-bagai sa-buah pelabohan Free Port Chukai yang di-kenakan dalam tahun Status. Saya sa-bagai wakil pekebun2 1961 ia-lah 20 sen tiap2 satu pokok kechil Pulau Pinang ada-lah me­ yang boleh di-turis. Ada kala-nya nguchapkan berbanyak2 terima kaseh sa-hingga 15 hari pada satu bulan kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri pokok getah itu tidak dapat di-turis Kewangan yang telah mengemukakan oleh sebab hujan. Jadi sangat susah Rang Undang2 ini dengan semata2 bagi tuan2 yang mempunyai kebun2 untok merengankan sadikit dari kechil untok membayar chukai yang bebanan dan kesusahan tuan2 punya di-kenakan pada tiap2 satu pokok 20 kebun kechil bagi membayar chukai sen pada tiap2 tahun. Dengan yang pendapatan itu. demikian maka beberapa kesulitan telah berbangkit di-sebabkan chukai Tuan Yang di-Pertua, untok pokok tidak dapat di-bayar pada melaksanakan chara2 ini, pada fikiran tiap2 tahun. saya patut-lah di-adakan satu atoran supaya penjualan getah nanti dapat-lah Tuan Yang di-Pertua, perlu-lah mereka ketahui berapa banyak-kah saya beritahu dalam Dewan ini ia-itu hasil chukai di-kenakan yang di- lebeh dari 50 peratus kebun getah kehendaki oleh pengeluaran getah itu yang ada di-dalam kawasan Pulau supaya dapat-lah mereka tahu berapa Pinang di-punyai oleh tuan2 punya banyak chukai yang akan di-kenakan kebun kechil yang kurang dari 5 ekar. pada tiap2 satu tahun mengikut Dan juga dengan keadaan pokok itu banyak-nya keluaran getah. Sa-takat ada-lah sangat tua dan keluaran getah ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, maka saya atau susu getah-nya sangat sadikit. sa-kali lagi menguchapkan terima kaseh dan menyokong penoh di-atas Jadi susah mereka itu hendak 2 menyimpan wang atau hendak me- Rang Undang ini. ngumpol wang untok membayar mengikut undang2 yang telah di-ke­ Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Penang nakan kapada mereka itu. Utara): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill, and I am sure that Tuan Yang di-Pertua, chukai mesti the residents of Penang Island appre­ di-bayar oleh sebab di-dapati kesusahan ciate the assurance given by the mereka itu maka terpaksa-lah Kerajaan Honourable the Minister of Finance, mengambil satu langkah atau tindakan that this Rubber Export Duty (Penang) bagi mendapatkan chukai itu. Dengan Bill is not the beginning of the thin hal yang demikian, ahli2 dari pekebun2 end of the wedge. We understand and kechil telah bermeshuarat dan telah appreciate very much that the Minister pun membuat satu permohonan of Finance is doing his best to meet the kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri request of these smallholders in the Kewangan di-dalam satu perjumpaan rural areas of Penang Island, in order di-antara wakil2 dengan Yang Ber­ to solve and to lighten the rubber tax hormat itu, maka persetujuan telah di- problem and at the same time protect­ ambil sa-bagaimana maksud dalam ing the interests of rubber traders. undang2 ini. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, However, I must also present to this dalam pada itu suka saya hendak House a certain degree of anxiety felt meminta sadikit penjelasan atau over the trade affecting the century- keterangan dari Yang Berhormat old entrepot status of the Island Menteri, apakala Rang Undang2 ini in that it is feared that this may result di-kuat-kuasakan nanti maka ada-kah gradually in turning Penang Island into 2175 20 OCTOBER 1961 2176 a fishing village instead of a pros­ is being re-exported. I was going to perous free port enjoying entrepot ask the Honourable the Minister of facilities. Finance, because I had my doubts Sir, I am pleased to hear that the when going through this new Bill, as Honourable the Minister of Finance to how would the passing of this Bill has agreed that importers of rubber, effect the rubber imported into Penang who do so with the intention of re­ Island for processing. Would the exporting them would be subject to a import duty be imposed on this rubber, certain measure of Customs control if imported into the Island for process­ and the Government is prepared to do ing and which would in turn be everything possible, to ensure that such re-exported? I had a sense of anxiety. control is limited to the minimum I was worried that if rubber imported necessary, to ensure the effective imple­ into Penang Island from Indonesia, mentation of this Order. Penang Burma and other territories, were being traders should be pleased to hear that subjected to import and export their entrepot trade in rubber will not duties, that would then be the death be affected by the subsequent pro­ knell of the entrepot trade of Penang cedures, now that there will be export Island. However, he was very kind duties imposed on the rubber produced enough to come out with an assurance and exported from Penang Island. that he would make the necessary and apt Customs regulations and Customs Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we know, the Duties Order to exempt rubber more procedures that are being im­ imported into Penang Island if such posed, the more forms the traders will rubber is to be subsequently re­ be asked to fill up, and that will exported. increase overhead expenses of the traders. These formalities will increase However, Sir, at this juncture, I the pressure of work of Government would like to point out one small but officers concerned and may result in important problem confronting the taxing their patience and temper. All smallholders of Penang Island. Pre­ these problems may perhaps cause the sently they are required to pay duty traders to divert their rubber shipments on all approved high-yielding materials to Singapore or elsewhere. I hope the from the Mainland for the purpose of Honourable Minister, as he has agreed carrying out the replanting programme, in his speech, will enforce this simple, whereas planters on the Mainland are efficient and effective procedure so not required to pay duty on such that the least possible inconvenience is planting materials as seeds, budded given to rubber traders concerned. stumps, budwood, etc. I request for the · Penang has to depend quite largely possible immediate lifting of such duty on entrepot trade, on the import and in order to assist the planters to carry export of rubber; and as the rubber out their planting programme for 1961 produced from the Island is going to be and subsequent years effectively and subjected to duty, a satisfactory also to comply with the advice of the method, whereby the dry rubber Honourable the Minister of Finance content may be arrived at, must be that they should replant their holdings introduced so that the new method of before it is too late. levying tax may be successful. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have said Another point which I would like to earlier, the smallholders in the Penang bring to the notice of the Honourable Island rural areas appreciate this the Minister of Finance is that, I co-operative gesture of the Minister of understand that the rubber imported Finance, but it is inevitable that I into the Mainland for processing is must also present the anxiety and fear ·subject to the payment of import of the residents of Penang Island, as duty, although there is no imposition part of my constituency includes a of export duty where the same Jot portion of the City of George Town. or equivalent amount of rubber The fear involves the repercussive 2177 20 OCTOBER 1961 2178 effect of this Bill on the free port two Honourable Members to have any status of Penang Island-and rubber is anxiety over this problem; and I one of the main commodities of the personally feel that it is their duty to entrepot trade of Penang Island. The prevail upon their Minister, should be fear has also been expressed by my decide to act contrary to the pledges Honourable colleague, the Member for of the Alliance Government. Penang Selatan that this may also be the beginning of the Principal Customs Sir, I for one welcome this Bill Area. However, it is encouraging that because I realise that the problem of the Honourable the Minister of Finance smallholders in Penang has been a real has shown that he has no intention of one. Though this Bill is a bit belated working in that angle. For the time to be implemented as from 1st January, being, I feel we are quite safe; if I 1962, though we have heard of the am to judge by the speech in the hardships faced by the smallholders, I introducing of this Bill. In this field feel that something more should be I must specifically point out, that it done for them. I have heard the two does not imply that the population of Honourable Members of the two rural Penang Island want or claim the best constituencies in Penang speaking on of two worlds. We only wish that the behalf of the smallholders. Minister of Finance will understand that we are only struggling to retain Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Sir, on a whatever little we have that is vital to point of clarification, I have said that Penang Island and the Mainland-the my constituency includes part of the entrepot status on which it was City of George Town, Penang Island, founded and had thrived upon since and not rural areas of Penang. the 18th century. Thank you. Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Well, I shall Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): put it this way, one representative of Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am rather amused a rural constituency and another to hear the speeches from two Alliance representative of a partially rural back-benchers on the subject of the and partially urban constituency. free port status of Penang. They have (LJiughter). I personally feel that since expressed their anxiety and have everyone of us have agreed, in­ pleaded to the Minister not to get rid cluding the Honourable Minister of of the free port status of Penang. I Finance, that the smallholders in must remind them that they were Penang Island have faced a great deal returned to this House on a platform, of hardships-and a lot of them. which made no mention whatsoever according to our Honourable Member that Penang might lose its free port from Penang Selatan, are very pvor status should the Alliance be returned people; and I know of cases in which to power. I will say that if the Honour­ they have even to pawn the jewellery able Minister of Finance has the of their families, in order to pay for audacity to deprive Penang of its free this duty on rubber trees-I feel that port status, it is a breach of an election since we are all agreed that they deserve pledge, because during the elections to be exempted, and since we have no mention was made whatsoever. If already collected duty from them for it is the intention of the Alliance many years, perhaps, the Minister will Government to get rid of the free port consider giving them some sort of a status of Penang, then I feel that they subsidy; in what form the subsidy will should make that an election issue­ take, I leave it entirely to the discretion before they do that they have no busi­ of the Honourable Minister of Finance. ness whatsoever to talk or even to I feel, Sir, that if that is possible, the mention about it. I say so because I Government wiU be showing, in a very feel that in a democracy like ours, the concrete manner, how they appreciate opinions and views of the people are of the plight of these people and how utmost importance and, unless you can they are going, in a very constructive get a mandate; it will be wrong for our manner, to assist them. It is no good 2179 20 OCTOBER 1961 2180 paying lip-service by saying that you ment of Information Services are realise their plight without doing any­ aware that smallholders are sometimes thing constructive. It is my hope that defrauded of their legitimate price in the Honourable Minister of Finance the sense that they do not get the full will give serious consideration to my price for their produce, and I think suggestion. we can consider whether it is possible to extend a system, which I believe is Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, in force now, whereby smallholders Sir, I would like to say that I am very are warned in advance of the price grateful to the Honourable Members they should receive from the rubber who have spoken in support of this dealers. Bill, and I would try to clarify the issues they raised, if not to set some The last item concerns the future of their fears at rest. of the free port status of Penang. As some of the Honourable Members With regard to the question of export who have spoken are aware, I, in fact, duty on planting material exported to only got this idea of introducing export the Island, I might inform the House duty on Penang rubber when I went that the Ministry of Commerce and to Penang at the request of the Industry has a scheme for planting up, Honourable Members concerned to I think, about three seed gardens which look into the plight of smallholders would be able to supply planting there and I felt that this was the fairest material to smallholders at greatly way out. So, I do not think that it can reduced prices, and I have no doubt be said that this proposal has any that when the scheme is brought to connection with the free port status completion, the benefits of that scheme of Penang, which is an entirely different would be easily available to the small­ matter. I do not, however, share the holders of Penang Island. pessimistic views of one of the Honour­ able Members that Penang will one I do not think, however, that it would day, either in the near or distant future, be possible to exempt planting material be relegated to the status of a fishing from export duty in the ordinary way village. I have far too much faith in because, as I have said on previous the resourcefulness of the inhabitants occasions, Penang Island cannot have of Penang Island and, not only that, of both ways. If Penang feels that it I also have a soft spot for the charm should be entitled to the benefits of of the Island and I would be the last the Principal Customs Area, the person to try to relegate it to the status solution, I think, is obvious. I can of a fishing village either now or in categorically assure the Honourable the distant future. Member who asked me if the import duty of $20 a ton would be payable Question put, and agreed to. on rubber imported into Penang, that the answer is in the negative—I am Bill accordingly read a second time glad to say it. With regard to the dry and committed to a Committee of the rubber content of wet rubber imported whole House. into Penang, we have in the Principal Customs Area a system whereby such House immediately resolved itself D.R.C. is determined and, as far as into a Committee on the Bill. I know, no complaints have been raised about our system. I think it is quite Bill considered in Committee. fair and. Honourable Members will find when it is working, that there (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) should be no unjust manipulation of figures or percentages of rubber Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to imported. stand part of the Bill. I believe again the Ministry of Bill reported without amendment: Commerce and Industry or the Depart­ read the third time and passed. 2181 20 OCTOBER 1961 2182 Honourable Members will recollect MOTIONS that the Customs Duties Order, 1959, THE CUSTOMS DUTIES ORDER, which was confirmed by the House 1961 on 26th November, 1959 introduced into this country a form of tariff (Statute Paper No. 41 of 1961) directly related to the Malayan Trade Classification which is itself based on Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan the Standard International Trade Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to Classification sponsored by the United move the motion standing in my name, Nations Organisation. The importance viz.— of the Classification may be judged That this House resolves that in from the fact that in 1960 countries accordance with the powers vested in it accounting for about 80% of world by virtue of sub-section (2) of Section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, 1952, the trade were compiling trade-by-com­ Customs Duties Order, 1961, which has modity data in accordance with it. A been laid before the House as Statute number of countries including some Paper No. 41 of 1961 be confirmed. Commonwealth countries use it, as we do, as the basis of their customs tariff. Sir, this Order under the Customs Ordinance has been made and it is The customs tariff in many countries, presented to the House, as the however, is based on a system Ordinance requires, for confirmation. sponsored by the Customs Co-operation In the ordinary course of events it is Council and known as the Brussels stipulated for obvious reasons, that Nomenclature for the Classification of Customs Duties Orders come into force Goods in Customs Tariffs and the as soon as they are published. This existence of two classifications, one for Order, however, has been made for trade statistics and another for customs, purely technical reasons on which I will caused a good deal of difficulty and, touch later, and it will not come into indeed, confusion. force until 1st January, 1962. It does not alter the rate of duty payable on To obviate this a group of experts any article on 22nd August, 1961, that worked out a revised classification is to say, on the date on which I made combining the original Standard Inter­ the Order. national Trade Classification with the Honourable Members may, however, Brussels Trade Nomenclature. That be aware that the rate of duty on revised classification is the Standard sodium arsenite was raised to 95 cents International Trade Classification, per gallon and $9.50 per cwt. on Revised, 1960 on which the Order 1st September, 1961 by virtue of the which I am now asking the House Customs Duties (Amendment) (No. 2) to confirm, is based. It combines the Order, 1961. A motion to confirm that merits of the former Standard Inter­ change stands in my name in the Order national Trade Classification with the Paper and will be taken at a later stage advantages of the Brussels Customs in the proceedings of this session. Tariff Nomenclature. Indeed, it is a very precise and detailed document and In consequence of that change, it will since the Customs, in construing it, be necessary for me in due course to will adopt the principles laid down in make and present to the House for the Brussels Nomenclature, we have confirmation, a further Order, amend­ a tariff in which the classification of ing the Customs Duties Order, 1961 goods will follow even clearer and more by substituting for the figures $7.00 precise rules than those hitherto and 70 cents appearing in Codes followed. 514.404 and 514.405 respectively on page 28 of Statute Paper No. 41, the Perhaps Honourable Members would figures $9.50 and 95 cents respectively, be interested by a simple illustration which are the rates of duty actually in of the way in which the Classification force at present. works. Let us consider an ordinary 2183 20 OCTOBER 1961 2184

rotan suitcase. "Suitcases are travel laborious and difficult task of preparing goods and travel goods fall, normally, the new Order. into Division 83, Group 831 on page 83 of the Statute Paper, but, if you will Sir, I beg to move. read the note to that Group, you will see that articles of basketwork are The Minister of Commerce and stated to be excluded from it. There Industry (Enche' Mohamed Khir bin can be no mistake or doubt. We must Johari): Sir, I beg to second the look elsewhere and will, in fact, find motion. travel goods of basketwork specially provided for on page 98 under code Question put, and agreed to. 899.221. Lest you should think that Resolved, it would have taken you a long time to find either travel goods generally or That this House resolves that in accord­ basketwork travel goods in particular ance with the powers vested in it by virtue if I had not given you the references, of sub-section (2) of Section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, 1952, the Customs I should like to add that an edition Duties Order, 1961, which has been laid of the Tariff with an alphabetical index before the House as Statute Paper No. 42 containing about ten thousand items of 1961 be confirmed. will be on sale to the public well before the Order comes into force. THE CUSTOMS DUTIES (AMEND­ Honourable Members who are MENT) (No. 2) ORDER, 1961 familiar with the Customs Duties (Statute Paper No. 42 of 1961) Order, 1959, will notice that the layout of this Order differs from it in one Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, obvious particular. In the 1959 Order Sir, I beg to move the motion standing the rates of import duty and export in my name. The Amendment Order duty were shown in a single Schedule, before Honourable Members to-day is straight across the page. In the Order presented to the House for confirma­ now before the House, the First tion as required by the Customs Schedule shows import duties only. Ordinance, 1952. Export duties, now considerably fewer than they were when the 1959 Order This Order effects increases in the was made, have been relegated to a rate of import duty on sodium arsenite separate schedule, the Second Schedule, from $7.00 to $9.50 per cwt. in the which with its Appendices, occupies case of sodium arsenite in powder only the last four pages of the Statute form, and from 70 cents to 95 cents Paper. per gallon in the case of sodium arsenite in liquid form. These increases The form of the new Order has, took effect from 1st September, 1961. so far as it concerns the classification of goods (but not, of course, the I should perhaps explain that these Tariff) been worked out in agreement increases in duty were not imposed on with the Government of Singapore, so revenue grounds; indeed no part of the that the Federation and Singapore will proceeds of the extra levy will go to continue, as in the past, to use identical swell the coffers of the Treasury. forms of trade classification and the production of Pan-Malayan trade Considerations other than revenue figures will continue as before. have dictated these increases which, in this case at least, I am informed, will Honourable Members will probably not be grudged by the users of sodium share my hope that no further re-cast arsenite on whom the burden of the of the form of our trade classification increased duties will fall. These other and tariff should be required for many considerations concern Ministeries other more years. That is, I am informed, than my own and I am, therefore, a hope most devoutly shared by the asking my colleague the Honourable officers on whom has fallen the the Minister of Commerce and Industry 2185 20 OCTOBER 1961 2186

to inform the House of the reasons for administered by a Committee con­ this Order. sisting of Government officials and representatives of the rubber industry. Sir, I beg to move, This Committee, which will shortly be That this House resolves that in set up, will work out the details of accordance with the powers vested in it the compensation scheme. by virtue of Section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, 1952, the Customs Duties I would like to add that this scheme (Amendment) (No. 2) Order, 1961, which is only a temporary measure, pending has been laid before the House as Statute Paper No. 42 of 1961 be confirmed. the availability of a suitable and economic substitute for sodium arsenite Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: as a weed killer. It is proposed, there­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the fore, to put this scheme into effect for motion. As explained by my colleague an initial period of six months in the the Honourable Minister of Finance, first instance, and if found to be the purpose of this Order is to increase satisfactory, it will be extended for a the import duty on sodium arsenite, further period of a year, subject to by $2.50 per cwt. on powder and 25 revision every six months. cents per gallon on liquid sodium arsenite, and the additional levy is to This scheme has the full support of be credited to a Fund to be applied the rubber industry which is the single for the purpose of paying compensation largest user of sodium arsenite. The to owners of livestock whose animals Rubber Producers Council, which is can be shown to the satisfaction of the the organ which speaks on behalf of Government to have died of sodium the rubber industry in this country, arsenite poisoning. The Government is has given an assurance to the Govern- aware that in the past many livestock ment that will co-operate fully with owners in the rural areas had incurred the Government to make this scheme heavy losses as a result of their animals a success. being killed, directly or otherwise, through eating grass contaminated with Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Muar Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sodium arsenite used for killing weeds 2 on rubber holdings. It is sometimes ada-lah mengalu kan dan menyokong not entirely the fault of the livestock atas chadangan yang telah di-bawa owner that his cattle should go into oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Kewang- contact with sodium arsenite, but the an tadi. Di-tempat saya ada-lah satu onus of proof is on the owner that he kawasan yang banyak menjadi mangsa did exercise due care to prevent his berhubong dengan rachun rumput animal from wandering into areas sodium arsenite ini. Walau macham poisoned with sodium arsenite before mana pun dengan keadaan saperti he gets some measure of compensation. mana yang telah di-terangkan oleh Yang Berhormat berhubong dengan The Government considers that live­ perkara itu di-masa yang akan datang, stock owners, who are usually peasant saya sangat-lah berbesar hati, oleh farmers and smallholders, should not sebab saya memandangkan yang be made to suffer financial hardship rachun ubat ini bukan sahaja boleh as a result of the loss of their animals membunoh lalang, tetapi juga boleh and it is with this objective in view di-jadikan baja atas tanam2an. Jadi that the Government has decided to pada masa sekarang ini mustahak-lah establish a Livestock Compensation bagi pekebun2 menghendaki pertolong- Fund, out of which compensation will an ini terutama sa-kali fahaman orang2 be paid as expeditiously as possible kampong di-kebun2 baharu to livestock owners who can show to the satisfaction of the Government that Mr. Speaker: Ini ada-lah masaalah their animals died as a result of sodium berkenaan dengan pembayaran ganti arsenite poisoning. The Fund will be rugi binatang2 yang mati memakan 2187 20 OCTOBER 1961 2188 rachun rumput. Tidak-lah ia berchakap THE INCOME TAX ORDINANCE, berkenaan dengan rachun itu menjadi 1947 baja. Itu tidak termasok. AMENDMENT TO FIRST Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Jadi, SCHEDULE Tuan Yang di-Pertua, walau bagai- (The Federation of Family Planning Asso­ mana pun saya sangat menghargakan ciations and affiliated State Family Planning atas peratoran yang hendak di-jalankan Associations) ini. The Minister of Finance (Enche5 Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg Enche' Mohamed Yusof bin Mah- to move the motion standing in my mud (Temerloh): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, name, which reads— saya menyokong atas usul yang di-bawa 2 That this House in exercise of the ini. Saya dengar orang yang kerbau- powers conferred by Section 102 (1) of nya mati kerana termakan rachun akan the Income Tax Ordinance, 1947, resolves di-beri sagu hati. Saya juga ber- that there be added to the First Schedule pendapat bahawa boleh wang ini di- of the Income Tax Ordinance, 1947, the gunakan supaya tempat yang di- following new item: gunakan rachun itu di-pagar supaya "The Federation of Family Planning kerbau2 atau lembu2 itu, tidak dapat Associations and affiliated State masok ka-dalam kebun2 yang meng- Family Planning Associations". gunakan rachun2 ini. Saya sayang 2 Sir, Section 13 (1) (e) of the Income kapada binatang itu kerana sangat Tax Ordinance provides that the besar guna-nya kapada peladang2. income of any institution, authority, Tidak ada ma'ana duit kapada person, or fund specified in the First peladang, kerana kerbau itu besar Schedule to the Ordinance shall be guna-nya. Saya harap dapat di-timbang- exempt from income tax. There is also kan bukan sahaja di-beri wang kapada provision under Section 102 (1) of the kerbau2 yang mati tetapi tempat Ordinance for changes in the Schedule yang di-gunakan itu patut di-beri to be authorised by a resolution of this bantuan wang untok di-pagar supaya House. ta' dapat kerbau itu masok. The motion now before the House is that the Federation of Family Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr. Speaker, Planning Associations and affiliated Sir, I welcome the assurances of State Family Planning Associations be support which have been given to this added to the First Schedule and motion from the Honourable Members thereby granted exemption from the who have spoken in favour of it. My payment of income tax. Honourable friend, the Member for Temerloh, has made a suggestion which This Association, as Honourable Members will probably know, is a my Honourable friend and colleague, voluntary organisation which seeks to the Minister of Commerce and help the people of this country to plan Industry, has taken note of. and regulate the size of the families by providing a free service. The work Question put, and agreed to. of the Association will help to mitigate the evils of ill-health and overcrowding Resolved, consequent upon the arrival of the children who cannot properly be cared That this House resolves that in accord­ ance with the powers vested in it by virtue for and to ensure healthy children who of section 10 of the Customs Ordinance, will be an asset to the nation. 1952, the Customs Duties (Amendment) (No. 2) Order, 1961, which has been laid It is, therefore, considered that the before the House as Statute Paper No. 42 grant of exemption from income tax of 1961 be confirmed. will be a good gesture on the part of 2189 20 OCTOBER 1961 2190

the Government towards helping the made by the Association are ploughed Association to achieve this aim. back and used for the general purpose of improving the standard of the game Sir, I beg to move. and for providing better facilities to encourage interest in the sport. A six- Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I beg storey building is at present being to second the motion. erected by the Association from its own resources and will be used as a Question put, and agreed to. hostel and club house, among other Resolved, things, and will provide training That this House in exercise of the powers facilities and accommodation both for conferred by Section 102 (1) of the Income home and visiting teams. Tax Ordinance, 1947, hereby resolves that there be added to the First Schedule of the Since Merdeka, the Association has Income Tax Ordinance, 1947, the following each year held a Merdeka Football new item: Festival in which national teams from "The Federation of Family Planning neighbouring countries participate. It Associations and affiliated State Family has also held Asian Youth Tourna­ Planning Associations". ments. By inviting teams from other countries to play here and by sending THE INCOME TAX ORDINANCE, out Malayan teams to other countries in reciprocation, the Association is 1947 fostering a great deal of international AMENDMENT TO FIRST goodwill. Further, these international SCHEDULE and other tournaments sponsored by the Association have contributed signi­ (The Football Association of Malaya) ficantly to the building up of a Malayan The Minister of Finance (Enche' consciousness among Malayans of all Tan Siew Sin): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg races. to move— There are, therefore, cogent reasons That this House in exercise of the for encouraging the work of the Asso­ powers conferred by Section 102 (1) of ciation and with this end in view it is the Income Tax Ordinance, 1947, resolves considered that the Association should that there be added to the First Schedule of the Income Tax Ordinance, 1947, the be assisted by exempting it from the following new item with effect from payment of income tax under the 1st January, 1961— provisions of section 13 of the Ordinance. "The Football Association of Malaya". Sir, I beg to move. The resolution before the House is similar in purpose to that on the Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I beg Federation of Family Planning Asso­ to second the motion. ciations which was passed a little while Questions put, and agreed to. ago. It seeks to add another association, this time the Football Association of Resolved, Malaya, to the First Schedule of the Income Tax Ordinance so that it may That this House in exercise of the powers conferred by Section 102 (1) of the Income be exempted from income tax under Tax Ordinance, 1947, resolves that there be the provisions of section 13 (1) (e) of added to the First Schedule of the Income the Ordinance. Tax Ordinance, 1947, the following new item with effect from 1st January, 1961— The Association is a national institution which controls football in "The Football Association of Malaya". the Federation of Malaya. Any profits Adjourned at 11.30 p.m.