The Hand in the Web: An Interview with

Volker Krefeld; Michel Waisvisz

Computer Music Journal, Vol. 14, No. 2, New Performance Interfaces 2. (Summer, 1990), pp. 28-33.

Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0148-9267%28199022%2914%3A2%3C28%3ATHITWA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-7

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http://www.jstor.org Fri Sep 21 19:15:11 2007 Vdker Krefeld Stichting Elektro Instrumentale Muziek (STEIM) The Hand in The Web: ~ c h t e r ~ i a c19h t NL-1017 WL Amsterdam An Interview with The Michel Waisvisz

The following interview was conducted in Mar- as being part of the compositional process due to the seille, France after Michel Waisvisz's first presenta- high modular flexible setup of MIDI instruments- tion of the Web was given there in December, 1989. and especially the possibility of assembling MIDI Waisvisz is well known as the developer and virtu- controllers out of a toolbox, as developed at STEIM. oso of several live systems, including The Hands, a The way a sound is created and controlled has such novel performance interface based on hand-mounted an influence on its musical character that one can sensors. He is the Director of STEIM and composer say that the method of translating the performer's of the recent works Touch Monkeys and The Ar- gesture into sound is part of the compositional chaic Symphony. Two examples of The Hands in method. Composing a piece implies building spe- performance are recorded on New Computer Music cial instruments to perform it as well. The inventor (Wergo CD 2010-50). role is thus an integral part of composing. Your Krefeld: What do you consider yourself in the first question suggests divisions that don't exist for me; place: an inventor of musical instruments, a com- I cannot see a personal involvement in the techni- poser, or a performer? cal functionality of the instruments and perfor- Waisvisz: A composer-a composer of timbres. mance as separate from the work of composing, so Due to the state of technological developments in simply consider me a composer. the current era, I'm a composer using electronic Krefeld: The instruments you have developed over means because of their differentiated and refined the years-the Tape-puller, the Crackle synthe- control over timbre. "The current era" has lasted 36 sizer, The Hands, the MIDI-conductor and your cur- years. I was four when I started playing with my rent work on the Web-all work in real-time and all father's shortwave receivers. In my view, the term create a direct and continuously sensed contact " composer" implies being a per- with the electronic circuits. Don't you think that former as well; you cannot sit behind a desk and computers are more precise and reliable music per- write electronic timbral music without hearing it. formers than humans; some say one can even add Aside from this, serialism has taken many of us the human touch to their programs? away from composing by ear. I think that a com- Waisvisz: I see the hand as a part of the brain, not poser has to be able to make immediate composi- as a lower instrument of the brain. Of course, you tional decisions based on actual perception of sound can see a hand as a transmitter and sensor, but in rather than making decisions derived from a formal the consciousness of the performance, the hand is structure that-as happened in serialism-tends to the brain. You can't say that its precision is sur- drift away from our pure musical needs. Composers passed or even equaled by computers because we must go back on the stage and listen and think; simply don't know what we control in detail when they must work and perform where the music actu- we play an instrument. Every instrumentalist can ally reigns. tell you that in the instrumental learning process, With respect to the inventor role, I consider the there are hours of meticulous motoric memoriza- creation of a specific electronic music instrument tion of timing and intonation, but the thing called music finally comes out as something on top of that. I don't think this notion is something meta- physical or a romantic vagueness. I think that the Computer Music journal, Vol. 14, No. 2, Summer 1990, slight aberrations from the score-sometimes con- 0 1990 Massachusetts Institute of Technology. sidered errors-contain crucial micro-information

28 Computer Music Journal that gives music its life. I cannot tell you exactly tures into the occurrence of this wise and vibrating how that information needs to be categorized,- ghost that we call real live music. some Africans and Indians can-but I know it's Krefeld: So you advocate a more physical approach there, and I also know that when you build an in- of the up-to-now highly intellectualized field of strument, it must be sensitive enough to capture electronic music, especially computer music? and transfer these aberrations. I remember a radio Waisvisz: I don't think I made my point. I say "physi- broadcast of a Crackle synthesizer concert some 15 cal," and you mean "more physical." I'm talking years ago, at the time when live electronic music about establishing a balance between formal struc- was almost unknown in Holland. Later, a woman ture and the physicality of the person performing. came up to speak to me after a concert. She had Once one takes formal structure as a synonym heard the radio program and told me she had thought for the beauty of patterns, cold reasoning, a law- it was performed on acoustical objects; now that abiding mind, and dogmatic thinking, and one in- she had seen it, she believed it was electronics. I terprets physicality as wild emotion, instinct, sen- think that the fact that so much of my motoric in- suality, eroticism, and feelable matter, then a historic formation had reached the instrument through the intellectual conflict is perpetuated! The balance Crackle fingerpads was responsible for making between structure and physicality is the most in- the electronics sound acoustical-at a time when triguing one I can imagine because one attempts to the notion of electronic music was still connected weigh out two highly contradictory but crucial en- with the sterile sound of automation and the eerie tities. The composer who can handle these extremi- reverberant sonic beep-aura of early, space-age mov- ties is bound to create a lively piece of music. ies. So I don't know what human touch is. I think YOUm entioned "computer music." I'd rather use that it's an expression used by musicologists to es- the more generic term "electronic music." The cape from their own formalist trap. term "computer" creates so many expectations. Instead of musing on whether a computer is pre- Just consider the notorious question of whether or cise, reliable, or capable of invoking the human not a computer can compose-can be creative. The touch in music, you should focus on the notion of point is that so many humans-and unfortunately effort. Effort is something abstract in a computer also composers-behave like robots all the time. So but a human performer radiates the psychological why this critical question aimed only at comput- and physical effort through every move. The cre- ers! As long as people ask this question they prove ation of an electronic music instrument shouldn't they have a basic misconception about the nature just be the quest for ergonomic efficiency. You can of creativity. As long as there are bad composers go on making things technically easier, faster, and you may say that computers can be highly creative. more logical, but over the years I have come to the Krefeld: But you seem to use computers all the conclusion that this doesn't improve the musical time. quality of the instrument. I'm afraid it's true one Waisvisz: Yes, for translating hand and finger move- has to suffer a bit while playing; the physical effort ments into controller information, and-most im- you make is what is perceived by listeners as the portantly-to route this information through a pat- cause and manifestation of the musical tension of tern of conditions to various sound synthesizers the work. One cannot compose the musical tension and to store sounds, short motifs, all sorts of pat- structure uniquely by formal rules; you can only terns, names, addresses, letters, etc. But I never use compose for it. A composer can create the inspira- computers to make musical decisions, especially in tional structure in which performers can find the time-related matters. The closest I get to using the most economic distribution of their effortsand re- computer in the decision-making area is as a per- laxations. Basically, however, it's a fight with the sonal oracle. Over the years I have created an oracle instrument-always leading to permanent malfor- program that I can consult about musical and some- mations (for example, with violinists1n ecks)-that times more worldly matters. It remembers my ques- luckily most of the time exceeds the formal stmc- tions and I feed back my experiences. Even though I

Krefeld 29 know how this program reasons-or to be frank, trolled in order to create a complex set of timbral about how this computer system is not able to rea- layers. This could only be accomplished by using a son at all-the huge amount of information, accu- computer system that could reinterpret the MIDI- mulated by the program into brief jumpy sentences, messages coming from "The Hands." This software creates surprising material that I often use as an in- is what became known as the Lick Machine, and I jection into my own stiff thinking. When it's really developed it in close collaboration with STEIM pro- "in tune," it responds with crackling, voice-like grammer Frank Balde. I would describe the Lick Ma- sounds that must come straight from Delphi. chine software as a MIDI macro program. Any in- Krefeld: You have now worked for several years coming MIDI message can become a trigger for one with The Hands-a computer music controller. of the previously stored sequences of MIDI mes- Tell me about your experiences. Many good things sages. These sequences can be a group of multi- have been said about The Hands. Did you discover channel program changes, a sequence of notes, a limitations? sequence of system-exclusive messages, or a combi- Waisvisz: Oh yes! The Hands is really difficult for nation of MIDI messages. Once these sequences are other people to play. This is not just because the running, they can be manipulated immediately by synthesizers are made to fit my own hands; it's also incoming messages from The Hands. This allowed because the way one approaches the synthesizers me to conduct the many layers of the work simul- through The Hands is heavily influenced by my taneously by connecting the different parts of my timbral conceptions. I'm not exactly the Carl Orff gestures to the various transformation options. The type of person who likes to create an army of fol- word "conducting" does not cover the extensive lowers who share my views and become adept at timbral and time-molding possibilities of the soft- playing The Hands. However, Frans de Ruiter, the ware. In the Lick Machine software, we made our director of the Royal Conservatory in , first attempt to have The Hands control the pattern which is housing the department of Sonology, en- formed by a bundle of MIDI messages instead of couraged me to do a research project supported by separate parameters. Thus one is able to operate at the institute in which a more generic version of a higher level, closer to the parameters of the com- The Hands is being developed. We call it the MIDI- poser, and closer to the ear. conductor-an instrument that uses the same tech- Krefeld: What do you now consider the most useful nology as The Hands but is easier to use. Through function on The Hands? the use of an extension of STEIM's Lick Machine Waisvisz: The scratch mode. This mode retriggers software, it can be programmed for timbral perfor- any held-down key on each change of distance mance and refined MIDI sequence-file manipula- between the left and right hands. One is able to re- tion on stage. Students and friends are happily vol- trigger a note 255 times by moving The Hands far unteering as test subjects and interested people are apart. The distance between The Hands can be trans- welcome to try it out and contribute to the project. lated into a value for any of the MIDI message data Krefeld: But what about your personal experiences bytes. In Touch Monkeys, the extensive timbral with The Hands? modulations were created by assigning the distance Waisvisz: Three years ago we decided not to do any value to the key velocity value for the selected notes. further developments on The Hands in order to The FM sound patches on the Yamaha synthesizers start the musical phase of the project. It was time we used were specially programmed and made to to learn to play the instrument, to try to overcome respond with high sensitivity to the velocity data. its limitations, to forget about technology, and to In fact, the notes follow one another so rapidly that enter the musical domain. Happily, I have done one can treat this chain of notes as a sort of real- this, especially when I toured with my composition time granular synthesis. While the fingers do crude Touch Monkeys. I ran into trouble, however, while selections, the bowing gesture of the two hands working on the composition The Archaic Sym- turns out to be a very precise way of manipulating phony, in which many synthesizers were to be con- timbral parameters.

30 Computer Music Journal Krefeld: You have recently stated that STEIM's re- thesis software. A change of the pressure-tension search activities will move away from MIDI. pattern in The Web will create a whole series of re- Waisvisz: Yes, we have created enough MIDI tools. lated changes of the variables at the inputs. In the We will be able to help composers, musicians, and first experiments, no functional connection scheme sound and light engineers with most of their demands was designed for the relationship between the spe- by applying our MIDI controller toolbox. This is a cific input parameters of the synthesis system and portable computer with analog sensor inputs that the segments of The Web. Even then, it was amaz- can be programmed from an external computer in ing how easy it was just to grab the strings of The advance and then taken on the road together with Web, move the segments, and hear immediate com- the controllers and the rest of the set-up. We want plex timbral changes. I had other musicians with to pursue our original policy of creating extremely no theoretical knowledge about the system play it, personal musical instruments. We believe we con- and within a short time they were empirically able tribute more to the possible future quality of elec- to master an astonishing amount of control over tronic music by allowing individuals to make an in- the timbres. tensely personal statement, instead of pretending to Krefeld: Will you dispose of The Hands and play serve everyone and coming out with dull, middle- The Web from now on? of-the-road stuff that makes everyone sound the Waisvisz: I think The Web will be a source of inspi- same. Apart from that, the industry still believes ration for improving The Hands and other instru- in high technology while we think that appropriate ments I will make in the future. I want to pursue technology is more reliable and easier to modify by three lines of further development of The Web. I the composers themselves. want to create different sizes of Webs: a very small Krefeld: Although you are involved in research one to include in instruments like The Hands or to projects at the Institute of Sonology and STEIM, replace the wheel sections of existing keyboards; a it seems that your personal research is fully con- zither-sized one to be played as a hand-held string centrated on The Web. What about The Hand in instrument; and big sizes to lean on and possibly The Web? even to climb into. Waisvisz: The Web is my first attempt to create a We will have to design software and some hard- simple instrument to manipulate textures. Timbre ware first to create a pattern library for The Web. has continuously changing patterns. Because of the When you start playing The Web you tune the radi- rather simplistic way synthesizers have been de- als to the tension that gives you the most useful signed until now, we were forced to manipulate the mechanical feedback. When this is done you assign timbres by single parameters-parameters derived through software the value zero to all of the seg- from a theoretical, analysis-based model of sound. ment tensions you have set up. When you start Now that we can apply digital signal processing squeezing The Web with your hands and you create technology to sound synthesis, it's easier to ma- a pattern that you like, you push a foot switch, nipulate an electronically generated timbre through which stores this pattern under a button that is part a complex pattern of inputs. I built a mechanical of an array of buttons located on or near The Web. Web in which each segment has its own tension The next time you press one of these buttons, it sensor. When you apply pressure with your hand on will recall the pattern stored under that button, and one of the segments, the tension of the neighboring this will be the new starting point for all of the seg- segments is influenced as well. Actually, the change ment tension values. When you touch The Web of tension is distributed mechanically through the again, you start modifying the pattern you just se- whole Web. The pattern of tension of The Web as a lected, and this can be stored again. I also want to whole is changed. Thus The Web is a mechanical be able to recall each of these patterns by touching computer (saving precious digital computer time!) a different segment of The Web. This way one can that functions as an input sensor. Each segment interpolate between patterns and navigate at a high represents a variable in the input section of the syn- level through the patterns. Strangely enough, play-

Krefeld 31 ing it actually feels as simple as playing with dif- ture trigger my imagination and create strong musi- ferent acoustical objects moving them near-or cal desires, sometimes sensual and erotic. Sounds against-each other in order to hear how this makes have their own meaning and place in relation to the sound change. With electronics used for sound each other. When composing, I often know exactly synthesis, you can select and design the relation- which timbre is needed without being able to jus- ship between the mechanics of the instrument and tify it in words. the timbre it produces. Krefeld: Looking at your record and CD collection The third type of Web research I want to do is you seem to listen to vocal music a lot. not based on a mechanical analogy of The Web Waisvisz: I rarely listen to electronic music. I like but on The Web consisting of an array of pressure- to browse through the genres-Olivier Messiaen, sensitive buttons. Here the software will simulate Antonio Vivaldi, Orlando di Lasso, Peter Gabriel, the tension relations between the buttons. The but- Eric Dolphy, Leos Janacek, Jimi Hendrix, Emma ton you press becomes the center of a small com- Kirkby, Barry Truax, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Johnny munity. There are neighbors of different proxim- Dodds, Alfredo Gutierrez-and I'll get deeply in- ity. The pressure value flows over to the neighbors volved in one of them for a while, but through the of the first order and then diminishes over the next years I still get excited listening to voice music orders. You can also have relatives farther away; from Mongolia, Sardinia, and Albania. this is to allow The Web software concept to be Krefeld: We haven't spoken about your musical implemented on standard MIDI-controllers. One aesthetics. could map a neighborhood of Web relationships on Waisvisz: The most compact description of my an ordinary MIDI-keyboard if it were equipped with aesthetic rules for a composition is the performance a polyphonic key pressure output. By using a pat- itself. A work of art is the shortest description of its tern of buttons, more flexible control over output own aesthetic rules. textures could be established, because you would Krefeld: In your opinion, who are the most impor- not be limited by the mechanical structure of the tant electronic instrument designers? Web which is constructed out of strings. Now it Waisvisz: Leon , Dave Simmons. This is would be the software that creates the relationships mainly because of the immediacy of their instru- between the hot spots. The Web concept seems to ments. Theremin's instrument takes care of the lend itself to application as an input structure for horizontal gestures and Simmons of the vertical parallel processing, for instance neural-nets (I can ones. The mechanics of the relationship between imagine making neural Webs!). the performer and the instrument are not visually Krefeld: Do you intend to control more composition- concealed; it is bright and ultimately simple. It's up level parameters with The Web as you do with the to the performer to make something out of it. If Lick Machine? , who in the European ver- Waisvisz: For the time being, I see The Web mainly sion of the history of electronic music is considered as a timbral controller, although the boundary be- to be the pioneer, had started his electronic work tween manipulating timbre patterns and composi- with Theremin instead of with Meyer-Eppler's si- tion might disappear unnoticed. nusoidal additive synthesis, then the synthesizer in- Krefeld: Why are you so interested in timbre? dustry wouldn't be so musically retarded these days. Waisvisz: Timbres are around us all the time, but Krefeld: How can we prevent this from happening there is still no universal way to describe them. in the future again? Nor is there a notation system, which relieves us Waisvisz: We cannot, probably. I would humbly from a boring reproduction culture. It is an unknown suggest that information shouldn't be monopolized area. Sounds travel deep inside us and itch at places in stupid rat races among music institutions, indus- where we can't scratch. This stirs up my curiosity. try, and individuals. Musicologists should feel more Also sounds without any apparent melodic struc- responsible for transferring as much knowledge as

Computer Music Iournal possible to the next generation instead of trying to victims as well, but fewer in number. Also the ego- become overcreative artists in explaining what art centric character of this form of tyranny often inad- means. vertently leaves more room for rebellion. So for Krefeld: Do you expect composers such as the younger generation he is a less destructive fa- Stockhausen, Cage, and Boulez to have a lasting ther. Sill Stockhausen's Telemusic, Cage's early importance? Imaginary Landscape (the one performed with RCA Waisvisz: They have been so involved in their New test records), and my mentor Dick Raaymakers' Music revolution that they haven't exactly been the Kanons are among my favorite electronic music caring fathers the new generation of composers compositions. could have used. Although they have liberated the Krefeld: What is the future of electronic field from a lot of the old dogmas, some of them instruments? have become rather frustrated because of a lack of Waisvisz: Apart from frequent sentimental revivals respect from the younger generation and have be- of ancient acoustic instruments, I think electronics come enlightened musical tyrants. In contrast to will integrate fully with acoustical instruments and what a lot of the younger composers think, I be- vice versa. I'm hoping to witness the time when we lieve that is the worst in this respect. will be able to manipulate matter electronically. Cage has pleasantly infiltrated the minds of many Then one will be able to combine all the quali- young North American composers-not just be- ties of electronic control with the superior timbral cause he plays this guru role so modestly. (It seems qualities of acoustically generated sound. It basi- that a lot of North Americans are so sensitive to cally would redeem us from the use of loudspeak- this approach.)He is determined to rule in this in- ers. I imagine an object that is vibrating because of visible, not openly aggressive, manner, whatever applied energy has a shape that can be modulated freedom he gives a performer, or whatever random and a surface structure that can be granulized, flu- procedure he applies. Also, we know now that ran- idized, or just hardened, and how rich timbres be- dom isn't as random as it used to be; it always sounds come directly audible from all surfaces of the ob- like Cage's music, which is high quality manipula- ject, in all directions. I imagine that I can put my tion. He represents the soft form of total control hand in The Web and pull, the object opens, and that Aldous Huxley describes so well and that I that higher sounds shriek in the air when I stick consider the most dangerous. Stockhausen is more my hand in it. Orwellian; this form of small-scale tyranny creates

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