Joseph J. Foss, Earling W. Zaeske, Daniel G. Cunningham, and Frank L

The American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington

Joseph J. Foss, Earling W. Zaeske, Daniel G. Cunningham, and Frank L. Lawlor

Interviewed by: Eugene A. Valencia

Interview Date: circa 1960s

Abstract: This recording contains one-on-one interviews with fighter aces Joseph J. Foss, Earling W. Zaeske, Daniel G. Cunningham, and Frank L. Lawlor. The interviewees discuss their wartime experiences as fighter pilots and share details about their naval aviation careers during World War II. Topics discussed include notable combat missions, aerial victories, and stories about fellow pilots.

The interviews are conducted by fellow fighter ace Eugene A. Valencia during an unspecified event, likely a Naval Aviators’ reunion.

Biography:

Joseph J. Foss was born on April 17, 1915 in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. He enrolled in flight training with the United States Marine Corps in 1940 and received his commission the following year. After serving as a flight instructor at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Foss joined a reconnaissance squadron, then transferred to Marine Fighting Squadron 121 (VMF-121). From 1942 to early 1943, he flew missions in Guadalcanal, the Solomon Islands, and other areas of the South Pacific. After his promotion to major in June 1943, he assumed command of Marine Fighting Squadron 115 (VMF-115). Foss left active duty in 1946 and afterwards served in the South Dakota Air National Guard. As a civilian, he served several terms as a South Dakota legislator and governor, as commissioner of the American Football League, and as president of the National Rifle Association. Foss passed away in 2003.

Earling W. Zaeske was born on February 25, 1922 in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin. He joined the United States Navy in 1942 and was assigned to Fighting Squadron 2 (VF-2) after earning his Naval Aviator designation. Zaeske served two combat tours in the Pacific Theater, one aboard the USS Enterprise (CV-6) and one aboard the USS Hornet (CV-12). During his tours, he participated in the Iwo Jima and Philippine campaigns and also flew in the Battle of the Philippine of Sea (June 1944). Leaving active duty after the war, Zaeske became a school administrator in Illinois after earning his master’s degree in school business management. He retired in 1977 and passed away in 2009.

Daniel G. Cunningham was born on July 3, 1919 in Chicago, Illinois. He joined the United States Navy in 1941 and graduated from flight training the following year. In 1943, Cunningham joined Fighting Squadron 17 (VF-17), commanded by the famous aviator John Thomas “Tommy” Blackburn, and was deployed to the South Pacific aboard the USS Bunker Hill (CV- 17). During his second combat tour, he served with Fighting Squadron 10 (VF-10) aboard the USS Intrepid (CV-11). Cunningham left the military after the war and worked in the life insurance and real estate industries. He later became a member of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Cunningham passed away in 2006. 3

Frank L. Lawlor was born on December 16, 1914 in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. He joined the United States Navy in 1937 and graduated from flight training the following year. After an assignment with Fighting Squadron 3 (VF-3) aboard the USS Saratoga (CV-3), Lawlor resigned from the Navy to join the American Volunteer Group in the China-Burma-India Theater. He rejoined the Navy following the deactivation of the AVG in 1942 and later took command of Fighter Bombing Squadron 9 (VBF-9) aboard the USS Yorktown (CV-10). Lawlor remained in the military after war and retired as a commander in 1961. Afterwards, he managed a NASA station as a civilian contractor and worked as a stockbroker in Virginia. Lawlor passed away in 1973.

Biographical information courtesy of: Boyce, Ward J., ed., American fighter aces album. Mesa, Ariz: American Fighter Aces Association, 1996.

Restrictions:

Permission to publish material from the American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives.

Transcript:

Transcribed by Pioneer Transcription Services 4

Index: Joseph J. Foss ...... 5

Earling W. Zaeske ...... 7

Daniel G. Cunningham ...... 8

Frank L. Lawlor ...... 11

Joseph J. Foss, Earling W. Zaeske, Daniel G. Cunningham, and Frank L. Lawlor

[START OF INTERVIEW]

00:00:00

[Joseph J. Foss]

EUGENE A. VALENCIA: Joe, thinking back over the war experiences, would you recap for us some of the victories—the record, in particular, that your squadron ran up.

JOSEPH J. FOSS: Well, we had a great group of boys in VMF-121. Our skipper was Major Duke Davis [Leonard K. “Duke” Davis], who is, as far as I was concerned, one of the top strategy men, as far as fighter pilots are concerned, in the United States Marine Corps. He was a very good friend of Jimmy Thach and Jimmy Flatley, and listened and read a lot of—about their tactics, so that by the time we arrived in combat, we had been thoroughly briefed. We put in every day en route for several hours, discussing this. And that’s about all we could do at that time because we were short of aircraft. Back in the States, for the entire squadron, I think we only had had three aircraft for most of the time. I think one time we ended up with five. And of course, with 40-some pilots, that doesn’t give you too much time to train. So the two men with most of the experience were the skipper, Duke Davis, and myself.

0:01:18

JJF: And the average for all of our boys, as I recall, was between 230 and 235 hours, although we had one boy there with 209 hours and one with 219 hours. And see, they were just barely out of flight school. These boys did a terrific job in coming through that war and doing a top job. It’s been brought out there that my flight had 72 victories, and the squadron, for the first six weeks in combat, had 209. And as I recall, that is the top of any squadron, Army, Navy, or Marine Corps, and stands today. They went on after that, the number, and managed to get more victories. But that original group had 209 in the first six weeks.

EAV: Well, Joe, your squadron pioneered the actual first aerial combat with the Japanese. In regard to the Japanese, Joe, what was the caliber of pilot you were facing at that time?

0:02:27

JJF: Well, they—one thing I’d like to straighten out there, that we didn’t really pioneer it. We actually—see, we came behind Major John Smith’s [John L. Smith] squadron and Major Marion Carl’s squadrons. And they had an outstanding record, and of course, we picked up a lot from their experience in—

EAV: I understand.

JJF: …conversation. So, uh—now I’ve gotten off the question there. 6

EAV: The caliber of the Japanese pilot, Joe.

JJF: Oh. The caliber of the Japanese pilot. It was up and down. You’d run into a crop that was really sharp, and then you’d run into a crop that was really green. And of course, they were always tough as far as I was concerned. That’s the only way to play it in any game or any contest. And this was certainly a contest that the result was a matter of life or death. And of course, I found that they were tougher when they outnumbered us. And in those days, as all the boys could tell you, they outnumbered us as much as ten-to-one. And when they were up with a ten-to-one average, they even put us on a stunt exhibition just to show us that they were pretty fair pilots. And they put on a great demonstration.

EAV: I recall those days, Joe. Incidentally, references made to the Farm Boys and the City Slickers. In fact, we had a call the other day asking if Joe would bring the Farm Boys in. Joe, do you have anything that you might bring to light on that—the Farm Boys and the City Slicker division?

0:03:59

JJF: [overlapping] Well, now, that’s written up in some of the write-ups and some of the books, about the City Slickers and the Country Hicks. And that was an absolute myth. It so turned out that in my flight, there were four of us that were from the farm or the ranch and four that were from the city. However, we never were—we were not running it as a contest at any time. That came up in an interview when I was in New York. And very innocently, when I was young and innocent—[laughter]—as I came back from overseas, a man asked me to run down my list of boys and give the number of aircraft they’d shot down, and then tell where they were from and what the occupation of each was. I innocently did that and went down, and so it turned out that four of us were farmers and ranchers and four lived in the city. So the headline came out in the papers at that time, “Country Hicks versus City Slickers: Hicks Win.”

And I received hundreds of letters from across the land as a result of that thing. And that I had no intention of putting—playing us up as an athletic contest, although we did work as a team and had to work as a team. And had we not worked as a team, old Joe would have never made it back, for one. Those boys are responsible for my being here. Not only the eight that were in my outfit, but the other groups of eight that were around us in the sky. We always had to work, not as individuals, but as a team. And as a result, we lived to tell the story.

EAV: Well, Joe, knowing you, you would not tolerate anything but teamwork and the best of teamwork. Joe, can you say something about our newly formed Fighter Aces Association?

0:05:40

JJF: Well, I was very happy to see the formation of this new organization. And I was happy to see that it included not only the Air Force boys, although it came up at an Air Force Association 7 convention, but all of the fighter aces from the Marine Corps, the Navy, and the rest of the boys. Now, they—and they have a great goal. Someone asked me the other day what it—is it just a group that gets together to sit around and tell sea stories and have a few snorts? And my answer was certainly not. It’s a group that actually is out for the betterment of mankind, that they intend to—with their vast amount of experience, to do something for the young men that are coming up, with an eye to the future. And of course, as we get older, we always like to think that the young men that we turn the reins over to will be well qualified, the very best that the country can produce. And as I always tell military men, there’s only one excuse for wearing the uniform and that is to provide the reserve to take care of any emergency that comes up, that confronts us, and to do the very best job that is humanly possible so that we can preserve the things that we love so well here in the great United States.

EAV: Well, you can see, ladies and gentlemen, why Joe Foss is the most respected American living ace. Thank you, Joe.

[recording stops and starts again 00:07:19]

[Earling W. Zaeske]

EAV: Another of our aces just stopped by, Earl Zaeske, Navy, formerly and during the war with Fighting 2. Earl, certainly welcome to have you—happy to have you with us.

0:07:35

EARLING W. ZAESKE: Well, it’s certainly a pleasure to be here. And especially understanding that I’m one of the first ones to arrive, we’ve been sort of beating the brush around here for the last day or two, trying to find someone we know. And this is wonderful to be in a spot like this where we know who’s coming and when.

EAV: Earl, do you have anything that you can recall, getting back to hangar talk, that—of course, the Air Group Commander at that time was a very good friend, Butch O’Hare [Edward Henry “Butch” O’Hare]. Anything that you might recall that was significant? Any one battle that was instrumental in making you an ace?

EWZ: Well, actually, there were two things. First of all, I can certainly remember the night that Butch O’Hare went up on his flight on the Enterprise and did not return, pioneering one of these radar attacks for night fighters, which was one of the first deals. And it was certainly quite a loss when we lost Butch O’Hare, who was our Air Group Commander on the Enterprise.

We then rejoined our air group in VF-2—or VF-2 with Air Group 2—and went aboard the Hornet. And as far as I’m concerned, the most exciting thing that ever happened to me during the war was it seemed that there wasn’t to be too much opposition on Iwo Jima. And this is long 8 before it became famous. And as I remember, Chichijima was supposed to be the hot spot for that particular deal. And so they just sent the big fighter sweep up to Chichijima, and they just sent eight planes from the Hornet and eight planes, I believe, from the Yorktown—so we just had a 16-plane fighter sweep—just to kind of look over Iwo. Well, as you all know now, that situation completely reversed.

0:09:19

EAV: I was on that Yorktown fighter sweep, Earl.

EWZ: Oh, were you? Well, the unfortunate thing is that we never rendezvoused [laughs]. Seven of our planes got over there. And as I remember, we came in at around 22,000 feet, something like that. And as I remember, there were 30 or 40 Zeros up at 30,000 or 40,000 feet with their hands—waiting to shake hands with us. Well, as you can well imagine, seven planes and 30 or 40, that was quite a deal. We were just darn glad to get back to the ship.

EAV: Did you get any that day?

EWZ: I don’t remember right now. You kind of catch me—I think I got one or two, something like that.

EAV: Well, Earl, will you think this over and come back with us? How about picking out an important day, and let’s reminisce a bit.

EWZ: I certainly will.

[recording stops and starts again 00:10:03]

[Daniel G. Cunningham]

EAV: Well, ladies and gentlemen, we’re very fortunate to have another of Tommy Blackburn’s boys, Danny Cunningham, whose name was just mentioned by Oscar Chenoweth a few minutes ago. Dan, it’s sure a pleasure to have you here. When’d you get in?