15.09.2017 MASTER’S THESIS MSC. SOC.

MANAGEMENT OF CREATIVE BUSINESSES PROCESSES THE NOTION OF THE HETEROTOPIA THE CASE: ROSKILDE FESTIVAL

Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

STU 232.051 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

TABLE OF CONTENT

CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION ...... 5

CHAPTER 2: THE CASE – ROSKILDE FESTIVAL ...... 5

RESEARCH QUESTION ...... 6

OUTLINE ...... 7

CHAPTER 3: THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK & LITERATURE REVIEW ... 8

3.1 THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK ...... 8 Introducing Heterotopia ...... 8 The First Principle ...... 9 The Second Principle ...... 10 The Third Principle ...... 10 The Fourth Principle ...... 11 The Fifth Principle ...... 11 The Sixth Principle ...... 12 The Third Principle: ...... 15 The Fourth Principle ...... 16 The Fifth Principle ...... 18 The Sixth Principle ...... 19

3.2 APPLYING THEORY AND RESEARCH TO THE CASE STUDY ...... 21

CHAPTER 4: METHODOLOGY ...... 24

4.1. PHILOSOPHY ...... 24 Ontology ...... 24 Epistemology ...... 25

4.2 APPROACH ...... 25

4.3 RESEARCH STRATEGY ...... 26

4.4 TIME HORIZON ...... 27

1 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

4.5 DATA COLLECTION ...... 27 Interviews: Participants ...... 29 Participant observation ...... 30 Interviews: Bookers ...... 31

4.6 DATA ANALYSIS – CODING PROCESS ...... 32

4.7 LIMITATIONS ...... 34

CHAPTER 5: FINDINGS ...... 38

5.1 PRESENTATION OF DATA: PARTICIPANT INTERVIEWS ...... 38 5.1.1Time ...... 38 5.1.2 Behavior and mind-set patterns ...... 40 5.1.3 Social aspects ...... 47 5.1.4 Barriers to entry ...... 51 5.1.5 Exploration ...... 55 5.1.6 The Island ...... 58 5.1.7 Audience development ...... 59 5.1.8 Evolution of festival ...... 60 5.1.9 Value of the festival ...... 61 5.1.10 Audience description ...... 63 5.1.11 Roskilde Festival’s reputation ...... 64 5.1.12 Roskilde Festival as an escape ...... 65 5.1.13 Time-line of festival ...... 66

5.2. PRESENTATION OF DATA: PARTICIPANT OBSERVATIONS ...... 67 5.2.1 Audience description ...... 67 5.2.2 New use of things and space ...... 68 5.2.3 Description of working at Roskilde Festival ...... 68 5.2.4 Mind-set difficulties ...... 69 5.2.5 Audience development ...... 69 5.2.6 Observed difference of areas ...... 70 5.2.7 Value of entering different areas ...... 71 5.2.8 Surprise aspect ...... 71 5.2.9 Interpretation of experience ...... 71 5.2.10 Deviant behavior ...... 72

2 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.2.11 Social expectations to camp ...... 72 5.2.12 Daily life at Roskilde Festival ...... 73 5.2.13 Festival temporality ...... 73 5.2.14 Monetary barriers to entry ...... 74 5.2.15 Aim of the festival ...... 74 5.2.16 Patterns of behavior in groups ...... 74 5.2.17 In and out of the festival ...... 75

5.3. PRESENTATION OF DATA: MUSIC BOOKERS INTERVIEWS ...... 75 5.3.1 The surprise aspect ...... 75 5.3.2 Roskilde as an influencer ...... 77 5.3.3 Audience description ...... 78

CHAPTER 6: DISCUSSION OF FINDINGS ...... 79

6.1. FOUCAULT’S FIRST PRINCIPLE ...... 79

6.2 FOUCAULT’S SECOND PRINCIPLE: ...... 82

6.3. FOUCAULT’S THIRD PRINCIPLE ...... 83

6.4. FOUCAULT’S FOURTH PRINCIPLE ...... 85

6.5. FOUCAULT’S FIFTH PRINCIPLE ...... 88

6.6. FOUCAULT’S SIXTH PRINCIPLE ...... 90

CHAPTER 7: CONCLUSION ...... 93

CHAPTER 8: PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF FINDINGS: ...... 96

CHAPTER 9: FUTURE RESEARCH ...... 99

BIBLIOGRAPHY: ...... 100

3 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

ABSTRACT

Purpose - The paper aims to analyze and discuss how, and to what extent, Roskilde Festival can be defined as a heterotopia, taking point of departure in Michel Foucault’s six principles of classification

Methodology - The paper applies a qualitative method in the form of 15 semi-structured interviews from an in-depth case-study research of the festival Roskilde Festival

Findings - In the case studied, themes to support claim of heterotopia are apparent notably in notions of space, time and freedom from social structures.

Limitations - Given sample size of qualitative data, the paper recommends further data collection to be carried out for higher levels of reliability and generalizability

Originality/value - The paper extends the framework of Michel Foucault’s concept of the heterotopia by analyzing and discussing six principles of classification in a temporary space with deviation from traditional structures of social ordering.

Keywords - Roskilde Festival, heterotopia, social ordering, behavioral change, social reality.

4 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION

Using Michel Foucault’s theory on heterotopia as a analytic framework, this thesis revolves around the discussion of spaces in society that are alternative to the conventional social order, while still relating to all other spaces. Bringing this topic to the case of Roskilde Festival the aim of the paper is to uncover whether the site of this festival can be perceived as such a space, defined a heterotopia by Foucault. In describing the heterotopia Foucault uses six principles of classification, which will provide the point of departure for the framework applied to the real life case. Below the case of Roskilde Festival is presented followed by the research question that will be answered in this thesis.

CHAPTER 2: THE CASE – ROSKILDE FESTIVAL

Once a year, Roskilde Festival draws 130.000 people to its grounds, situated near Roskilde, 30 minutes from the Danish capital of Copenhagen. The festival consists of four music days, presenting 183 from 30 countries on 9 stages, and four warm-up days, with 80.000 campers in 50.000 tents on approx. 2.500.000 m2. The mean age for the audience is 24 years old, in 2016 23% of visitors were at Roskilde for the first time, and 7% were on their tenth or more time. 95% of all Roskilde’s visitors recommend it to a friend.1

Roskilde Festival opens for the first time in 1971 by the name Sound Festival, and was inspired by other rock oriented music experiences such as Woodstock. The two high-school students, Mogens Sandfær and Jesper Switzer, want to raise money for the Black Panther Party in the U.S on a field outside their local town.2 The first year of the festival was a hit with the audience, but a spectacular economic failure, and subsequently Sound Festival is picked up by Roskildefonden, who together with a core of volunteers decide to take upon themselves to continue the event, with the goal that every year enough money had to be earned to do it again. Later on, Roskildefondens mission statement evolved into including the support of not only local initiatives, but national and lastly international humanitarian efforts.3

1 http://roskildefestivalgruppen.dk/da/for-studerende/ 2 http://roskilde-festival-guide.dk/historien-om-roskilde-festival/ 3 http://roskildefestivalgruppen.dk/da/vores-historie/

5 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Today, Foreningen Roskilde Festival is responsible for organizing the festival as it is known today. It is a non-profit organization, which through donations support humanitarian, social and cultural work with a special focus on children and youth. Since 1972, Foreningen Roskilde Festival has donated 321.639.643 DKK to these efforts.

Employing 50 full-time associates, the major workload of organization is volunteered by 32.000 people who every year provide the help to lift the entire event - in exchange for a festival ticket. As a charity with a strong volunteer community the festival has a strong DNA as a socially responsible organization. They set a strong agenda and shed light on social aspects, such as that of political equality, which is the focus of 2016- 2018. There is no doubt that Roskilde Festival is a momentous event for many people, and that it has a strong brand as the largest festival in Denmark with an important non- profit agenda.

RESEARCH QUESTION

Taking point of departure in Michel Foucault’s six principles of classification, how and to what extent can Roskilde Festival be defined as a heterotopia?

6 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

OUTLINE

Chapter 1: Introduction - The chapter provides general insight into the festival Roskilde Festival. These insights provide the basis for the problem statement.

Chapter 2: The Case Roskilde Festival - The chapter illuminates the chosen research case.

Chapter 3: Theoretical Framework and Literature Review - The chapter presents the theoretical framework applied in the analysis, listing six principles of classification of a heterotopic space. The literature review presents comments on the theoretical framework in general and further investigations on the topic of heterotopias in festivals. The chapter ends with a development on theoretical framework, presenting an amended list of principles of classification for the case study research.

Chapter 4: Methodology - The chapter includes six sections of methodological considerations; epistemological and ontological considerations; research approach; research strategy; time horizon considerations, data collection considerations, data analysis considerations. Lastly methodological limitations are considered.

Chapter 5: Findings - The chapter provides overview of findings of the data collection, split into three sections; participant interviews; participant observations; Roskilde Festival music booker interviews.

Chapter 6: Discussion - The chapter sets out to discuss the findings of the data collection in relation to the theoretical framework.

Chapter 7: Conclusion - The chapter summarizes data findings and discussion.

Chapter 8: Practical Implications of Findings - The chapter summarizes limitations of the findings in research and implications thereof.

Chapter 9: Future Research - The final chapter discusses possibilities for future research in the field of knowledge.

7 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 3: THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK & LITERATURE REVIEW

The following chapter introduces the theoretical fundaments of the thesis paper. The theoretical framework provides the research Six Principles of Heterotopia for determination of defining the case. The literature review includes commentaries of Michel Foucault’s work on a general level, and prior research on the topic of investigation with the scope of the festival space. The chapter will conclude with the presentation of an amended set of principles for classification in the research onwards.

3.1 THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK

The theoretical fundament of this research will largely rest upon the theories of Michel Foucault and specifically his 1967 lecture on the heterotopia (“Des Espace Autres”) in his series of lectures in “Architecture/Mouvement/Continué”.

Introducing Heterotopia

In the article Foucault claims that the epoch of our present time is the epoch of space above all, developing from the nineteenth century obsession of history:

“We are in the epoch of simultaneity: We are in the epoch of juxtaposition, the epoch of near and far, of the side-by-side, of the dispersed.” (Foucault, 1984: 1) Spaces are both physical and nonphysical realms in which we inhabit, defined in our current epoch as a sum of its relations to others. The relations of proximity between other elements or points, such as grids or series, makes up the physical space. The concrete issues of placement are in terms of demographics, such as knowing whether there is physical space enough to accommodate mankind, but also building blocks; the classification of elements, storage, marking, circulation and relations of propinquity must be adopted in a given situation to achieve a given end (Foucault, 1984: 1).

The idea of space is one that obsesses social actors, as we are able to, within the same time frame, act with and within various spaces simultaneously. Foucault believes that contemporary space is, despite the many techniques of appropriating it, not completely desanctified as there is a hidden presence of the sacred still lingering in

8 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen many spaces, such as the oppositions we in modern society take for given; private and public, family and social, work and leisure, culture and utility, and so on (Foucault, 1984: 1).

Foucault states that actors in modern society “live inside a set of relations that delineates sites which are irreducible to one another and absolutely not superimposable on one another.” (Foucault, 1984: 3). The navigation in multiple sets of relations as a constant reality adds interest in different types of relations – in this case, the spaces that are linked with but also contradict all other sites. Utopia is the impossible made possible in a site with no physical place, but where imagination creates the perfect societal form. Utopias do not exist in physical form, however there are sites navigating on the brink of society that do (Foucault, 1984: 3).

Heterotopias are places that exist in the physical world, and are according to Foucault a type of effectively enacted utopia, simultaneously representing, inverting and contesting all other real sites that can be found within that society and culture (Foucault, 1984: 3). Although real, heterotopias are places outside places, it is a site existing on the brink of the social world. Foucault draws upon the analogy of the mirror as a heterotopia. Although you can see the utopian reality inside the mirror, you can never step within. Heterotopias make the reality inside the mirror simultaneously real and unreal, as you can see but cannot engage.

As a way to systemize and further define the concept Foucault presents The Six Principles of a Heterotopia. He explains that each heterotopia involves these six principles forming a family of resemblances but with varying degrees, therefore one might find some spaces “fully functioning” or “highly heterotopic” more so than other spaces (Foucault, 1998a: 182). The principles are as follows:

The First Principle The first important factor of heterotopia is that they can exist in every culture, however taking on varied forms dependent on the needs of the culture in which it arises. Given the heterogeneous nature of a society there might not be a universal form of heterotopia, therefore Foucault introduces two main categories of classification.

Crisis heterotopias are predominantly occurring in primitive societies. These are spaces that are privileged, sacred or forbidden, and are created for people who are in a state of crisis in relation to the society in which they live, where they can be “nowhere”, i.e. a non-geographically determined safe place (Foucault, 1984: 4). Foucault presents examples of crisis as adolescence, the period of menstruation and the nineteenth-century boarding school (ibid.).

9 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

These crisis heterotopias exist as spaces to deal with crisis “elsewhere”. Foucault argues that crisis heterotopias are disappearing for the most part from the modern world, and are instead being replaced with “heterotopias of deviation” where individuals who deviate from the norm can be placed or take shelter from society. Here prisons are the most apparent example, while psychiatric hospitals and rest homes are also mentioned (Foucault, 1984: 5).

The Second Principle Heterotopias take on the function they do within a society and culture, dependent on the unfolding of the specific history of that said culture and societal structure (Foucault, 1984: 5). Foucault uses the example of cemeteries, which are heterotopias with relation to multiple other spaces in the city, state, society or village. Cemeteries have according to Foucault always been heterotopias but the function of these within society changed when the general consensus on the immortality of the soul began to fall apart. When the doubt of immortality was seeded, the sanctification of the dead body became more important, resulting in the need for burying the deceased in boxes, since the remains ultimately was the only reminder of existence left. Somewhere along this process the cemetery changed from being perceived as this sacred immortal place to a dark resting place. Thus cemeteries were moved from the center of cities to the outskirts and came to represent a different meaning to society than beforehand (Foucault, 1984: 5). In example such as the evolution of the meaning of cemeteries, it becomes evident that society defines the function and meaning of the space, and as society changes, so will the heterotopia.

The Third Principle Spaces and sites that are ordinarily incompatible can be juxtaposed in a single real place within a heterotopia. In Foucault’s example the traditional Orient garden is a sacred space that represents the four parts of the world with different unrelated vegetation surrounding the fountain or basin in the center symbolizing the “navel of the world” (Foucault, 1984: 6). The different vegetation that is related to different parts of the world is unrelated and ordinarily not compatible but is supposed to come together in this single space, serving to show that instances that ordinarily cannot coexist (such as different types of vegetation) can be found in certain spaces. The example of the cinema is also a representation of the juxtaposition of spaces as people sit in a room looking at a two-dimensional screen that is showing another three-dimensional world in the movie (Foucault, 1984: 6). Thus multiple spaces, both nonphysical and physical are juxtaposed in one single space in the cinema.

10 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The Fourth Principle The heterotopia exists in full force at a certain moment in time, when the actors engaging the heterotopia make a complete break with their traditional time and society.

Exploring the idea of heterotopias in relation to time, the biological term of heterochronies can be included as they in a way are parallel experiences; deviation from the typical evolutionary sequence of formation. The heterotopia is a break with what the socially embedded actor would normally do, however when fully entering the heterotopia, the actors effectively breaks away from the regular time and pattern of habit. The most apparent example of breaking away from traditional time is the entering of the cemetery once deceased, which is a break with the time in life and the entering of a quasi-eternal state where time has a new meaning for the individual (Foucault, 1984: 6). When considering time, a heterotopia can either be a site of indefinitely accumulating time (such as museums or libraries), in which information and knowledge from previous sites and epochs are confined and accumulated into a single space, or a temporary slice out of time such as the festival, where time is flowing, precarious and transitory (Foucault, 1984: 7). Thus the latter example is the opposite of the former, where the heterotopia is not linked to time as eternal but time as temporary.

The Fifth Principle “Heterotopias always presuppose a system of opening and closing that both isolates them and makes them penetrable.” (Foucault, 1984:7) Heterotopias are not free of barriers to entry; they are either of a compulsory nature or through a ritualistic offering, making them spaces of exclusion due to the fact that effort is required by the individual to enter. Either the requirements are formally known and are compulsory (such as army barracks or prisons) or they can be rituals and gestures which are needed to gain full access to a space that appears open at first glance (Foucault, 1984: 8).

Foucault discusses the ability to fully enter a heterotopia by using the example of bedrooms for travellers that existed on great farms in Brazil, where there is a deliberate architectural design to avoid the travelling foreigner to enter the family’s premises, whilst still allowing the stranger to access parts of the area, thus giving a perceived notion of hospitality and openness but in actuality not allowing full entrance (Foucault, 1984: 8). The fact that heterotopias have a system of both opening and closing is what isolates them from other spaces but also why they retain some sort of penetrability.

11 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The Sixth Principle The final principle of a heterotopia is that it is a space that has a relation to all other remaining spaces, by Foucault described in the realm of two extreme forms. The first classification of a heterotopia is the space of illusion, which serves as a place of exposition, where all the sites in which human lives are divided are shown as even more illusory than the heterotopia itself. An example of this in Foucault’s text is the former role of the famous brothels (Foucault, 1984: 8), but also the example of theatres could be referenced, in that its function is to create a story on the stage that in turn illuminates experiences and realities of life.

The second form is the creation of another real space, which is as perfect as the real world is imperfect contrasting other real spaces, thus becoming the heterotopia of compensation rather than exposition (Foucault, 1984: 8). As an example of a heterotopia of compensation Foucault introduces the notion of Puritan colonies founded by the English in America that created a new way of organization of a terrestrial space, using elements from the established world but organizing as perfect other spaces (Foucault, 1984: 8). A new heterotopia is created as the perfect alternative to the real world or conventional space, attempting to do everything right that is done wrong in the remaining space. The heterotopia should be viewed from the perspective of all the other remaining spaces in order to relatively identify how it is “other” from those spaces.

3.2 LITERATURE REVIEW

Foucault’s presentation of heterotopias has been criticized as a brief, unsubstantial and above all ambiguous work, in which numerous critiques and developments upon the theory can be introduced. This thesis includes four major commentaries on Foucault’s paper, including perspectives on Foucault’s ambiguity of the concept, the claim that heterotopias not only are spaces of resistance but also producers of new knowledge, the critique of whether it is in fact the closest manifestation to the traditional definition of a utopia, and the speculation of whether heterotopias can exist in reality.

In his book The Badlands of Modernity: Heterotopia and Social Ordering, Hetherington (1997) summarizes the use of the concept of heterotopia in literature, arguing that the concept has been interpreted in a one-sided way of only dealing with heterotopia as a marginal space and a space of resistance and transgression (Hetherington, 1997: 42). In other words the heterotopia has in many instances

12 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen adopted a meaning of being spaces or places on the periphery or outside that violates moral or social boundaries often connected with total freedom and lack of control.

Hetherington uses the example of hospitals and carceral institutions to argue that heterotopias just as well can exist within the center of society where control is dominant, and are not necessarily spaces on the brink associated with resistance, effectively arguing for a wider interpretation of the concept than has previously been adopted. The core of Herentington’s utilization of the term is that heterotopias are a way of social ordering that is “other”, which can include examples of both center and the marginal spaces:

“The paradox is that heterotopia can be either or indeed both. Spaces of total freedom and spaces of total control are both ways of social ordering” (Hetherington, 1997: 42).

The heterotopia is a physical manifestation of the “other”; it is a space differentiating itself from the norm, whether it be resistance or merely an alternative form of order.

This ambiguity is in his opinion the power of the concept:

“The power of the concept of heterotopia lies in its ambiguity, that it can be a site of order just as much as it can be a site of resistance. This ambivalence is at the centre of the utopian idea of modern society that took shape in the eighteenth century.” (Hetherington, 1997: 51).

Much like Hetherington (1997), Robert J. Topinka (2010) asserts that the traditional primary understanding of heterotopia is that of a place of resistance. Topinka (2010) agrees that resistance might be an element, but that it should not be the primary determinant of defining a heterotopia. While Topinka does not dismiss the classic interpretations of heterotopias as counter-spaces of resistance, he rather changes the focus to the function of producing knowledge.

By connecting and juxtaposing different incompatible spaces in one site “heterotopias problematize received knowledge by destabilizing the ground on which knowledge is built” (Topinka, 2010: 54). An important element in a heterotopia’s ability to produce new knowledge is its connectedness to all remaining spaces (referring to Foucault’s Sixth Principle).

Topinka (2010) argues that if the heterotopic space was not related to all other spaces it would be the imaginary space of a utopia, and by having no relation to the real world such a space could not contest other real spaces.

13 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

New knowledge is created in a heterotopia because the alternative order of knowledge in the heterotopic space provides glimpses to the dominant order, yet challenge it (Topinka, 2010: 60). By applying Foucault’s analogy of the mirror, Topinka attempts to explain how heterotopias allow us to see our structural formation of knowledge from a new perspective:

“The reflection reconstitutes our own visibility, presenting us an alternative view of who we are. Heterotopias reconstitute knowledge, presenting a view of its structural formation that might not otherwise be visible.” (Topinka, 2010: 60)

Peter Johnson discusses in his article Unraveling Foucault’s “Different Spaces”, the issue of the wide range of application of the notion of heterotopia. Johnson’s critique acknowledges the broad use of examples, but discusses whether heterotopias are in fact the closest physical manifestation of a utopias, as utopias are described as “expressive and broadly about the desire for a better way of life” (Levitas, 2003), which may fit with Foucault’s examples of festivals as a physically existing utopia but does not resonate well with e.g. prisons.

Due to Foucault’s broad inclusions of what constitutes a heterotopia, Johnson believes that heterotopias should ultimately not be seen as resembling utopias, since they actually disrupt and contest the idea of utopia (Johnson, 2006: 84), because heterotopias do not (necessarily) hold any promise of a better way of life:

“Although Foucault describes heterotopia as ‘actually existing utopia’, the conception is not tied to a space that promotes any promise, any hope or any primary form of resistance or liberation.” (Johnson, 2006: 84)

Another skeptical critique of the concept is made by Genocchio (1995) who questions the premise of heterotopia as a “real” space. Genocchio addresses the issue of differentiating between a heterotopic and a non-heterotopic space and argues that Foucault’s descriptions fail to clarify this. The outcome is a problematic uncritical application of the concept as any discontinuous space, which is then applied to a vast number of real life sites in the literature, begging the question: “What cannot be designated a heterotopia?” (Genocchio, 1995: 39).

In his belief heterotopia as an actual space takes away the very element of “otherness”. The real “otherness” characteristic of a heterotopia exists only in its inability to be localized as a real site (Genocchio, 1995: 38-9).

“In brief, this is the case in that in any attempt to mobilize the category of an outside or absolutely differentiated space, it follows logically that the simple naming or theoretical recognition of that difference always to some degree

14 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

flattens or precludes, by definition, the very possibility of its arrival as such” (Genocchio, 1995: 39)

Genocchio argues that any located site can be seen as “other” in relation to other sites and thereby the concepts loses its meaning. Instead he suggests that a heterotopia exists as the idea of space challenging the ordering of conventional space and refuses to be a part of that, but is not a manifestation of the actual space. The critique insists that ordering of spatial systems is subjective (Genocchio, 1995: 43).

While the above authors discuss heterotopia in its general theoretical form, the next section narrows the scope and introduces existing literature on the specific examples of viewing festivals as heterotopias.

Searching the literature on heterotopia and its application on real life cases reveals that the concept has been applied to festivals in varying degrees. An introduction of the primary studies in this context reveal how other authors have connected the theory to real festival cases, which provides inspiration for making the connection in this research. For the purpose of overview and to follow the structure of this research the literature is presented within Foucault’s Principles of Heterotopia.

Upon researching prior investigations that have also used the theoretical lenses of the heterotopia, it has been discovered that papers have previously focused exclusively on Foucault’s last four principles. The thesis will therefore not include external views on the principle of classifications of a heterotopic space or how history can create a transformation of the function of heterotopias in society.

The Third Principle: In their studies on two folk festivals in Ireland, Linda Wilks and Bernadette Quinn link Foucault’s principle of juxtaposing several spaces within an otherwise incompatible space to the festival heterotopia arguing that the stage represents the umbilicus, while the surrounding space is the festival site where interaction among festival goers exist (Wilks & Quinn, 2016: 25). Things that do not coexist in the “real world”, such as people from different backgrounds and places, are united in the common goal of enjoying themselves and experiencing live music performances at a festival.

Wilks and Quinn argue that the juxtaposing of spaces is seen within festivals in the way that several spaces within a single space is transformed in function and meaning: “...every available space became transformed from its existence to one replete with apparently contradictory meanings” (Wilks & Quinn, 2016: 29). Examples in their

15 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen research include how schoolyards are used for outdoor cafes and village pubs used for youth music sessions, concepts that are not ordinarily seen together.

In “Festival: Definition and Morphology” Alessandro Falassi (1987) describes this process as valorization - the opening ritual of modifying the usual and daily functions and meaning of time and space (Fallassi, 1987: 4).

Falassi explains festivals through functions expressed as rites, since “they happen within an exceptional frame of time and space, and their meaning is considered to go beyond their literal and explicit aspects” (Falassi, 1987: 4). The narrative expressed through the rites becomes the new measurements of temporality at the festival after the initial modification through valorization.

Lee Gilmore presents another research on the juxtaposing of space in his application of Victor Turner’s ritualization theories on the case of The Burning Man festival of Nevada (Gilmore, 2008). Gilmore finds that participants (Burners) and organizers all strive to collectively reach a utopia through a formulated ideology, however construct and frame their experience in multiple different ways, leading to criticism on how the festival fails to reach each individual’s perception of utopia. He argues that multiple discourses of the meaning of the event by different participants is an example of the juxtaposing of spaces and sites, thus leaving the festival as a heterotopia in its inability to be a utopia (Gilmore, p. 217).

In this specific research the juxtaposition is not of physical spaces changing functions but instead cognitive spaces as perceptions and expectations meeting in one space.

The principle of juxtaposing spaces has thus been interpreted in various ways by former research, the modification of space being described by Wilks and Quinn as changing the physical space and function of infrastructure, while Falassi’s concept of modification of time relates to Foucault's’ fourth principle, and Gilmore’s study at the Burning Man festival shows the juxtaposition of mindsets of actors within a space.

The Fourth Principle Foucault’s fourth principle takes into consideration time in the context of a heterotopia, either in its transitory form or as a space representing the accumulation of time. The festival represents the ultimate transitory heterotopia as it is in no way an eternal site; it is built up and torn down within a strictly compressed time period, and can only be entered at a certain space and time.

A third option is developing in modern society, a hybrid between the accumulation of time and the transitory nature of the festival – vacation villages, in which societal actors can take breaks from their daily life and engage in practices that simultaneously

16 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen abolish time in the traditional sense, but also celebrate and rediscover time in the attempt to reach back to their origins (Foucault p. 7)

People attending a festival are removed from time in the traditional sense in that standard time (in measures of the “outside world”) is not prevalent when at the festival. Time is of another nature and daily routines and schedules are temporarily abandoned. The letting go of time may be because actors have actively taken time away from their daily routine to be at the festival.

Several studies have expressed how festivals are a “time out” from time in real society. As touched upon earlier Falassi (1987) describes the modifying ritual valorization as both modifying space and time. While modifying space is juxtaposing of spaces as explained in the previous principle, the modification of time also happens since a festival is an autonomous temporal dimension created to focus only on certain activities (Falassi, 1987: 4). He continues by saying that festivals allow for a “time- out-of-time” where time is not measured in the conventional way of days and hours but more so on a scale of what happens within the festival from beginning to end (ibid).

While Falassi’s description of festivals has clear similarities but no references to Foucault’s notion of heterotopia, other researches specifically connect their research to the theory. Defne Karaosmanoglu (2010) describes the festivities of Ramadan in Istanbul as a temporal heterotopia being linked to the flowing of time, where daily time is not organized as usual but according to the start (the sahur) and the end (the iftar) of the fast (Karaosmanoglu, 2010: 293).

She argues that by bringing in a new discourse of time the Ramadan turns into a cultural celebration opening up for new discourses “...where universal qualities of peace, friendship, family, tolerance, and love are presented as if they were expressed by all kinds of people regardless of their age, class, religion, or ethnic backgrounds, friendship, piece” (Karaosmanoglu, 2010: 293).

Beyond the “flow of time” Karaosmanoglu also argues that the Ramadan acts as an accumulation of time by connecting the festivities to the history and nostalgia of the Ottoman Empire (Karaosmanoglu, 2010: 294). The Ramadan expresses multiple layers in time in its current time and space much like Foucault’s description of libraries and museums which “...enclose in one place all times, all epochs, all forms, all tastes…” (Foucault, 1984: 7).

Francesca C. Howell makes the same point in her argument that some festivals not only have layers in space (multiple sites) but also in time. The Badalisc Festival of Northern Italy is a current representation of a tradition and relates to earlier temporal

17 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen layers, explained as having a sense of polychronicity, which “allow for an acute and tangible awareness of sense of place in festival participants” (Howell, 2013: 57).

In their 2017 research, Wilks and Quinn finds that a process relating to the artistic features of two folk festivals in Western Ireland is a product of the intertwining of time:

“Interviewees in one breath talked about their earlier festival experiences, their younger efforts to play an instrument, their memories of older performers, older tunes, techniques or styles, and their hopes to play more proficiently in the future.” (Quinn & Wilks, 2017: 42).

They conclude that the perception of festivals existing as accumulated time of previous festivals brings the social function of these into a new significance (ibid.).

Foucault’s fourth principle is represented in a multitude of ways by the additional research on heterotopias with festivals in mind. Findings included the notion that a festival only concerns itself with time to the point of the happenings inside the space itself, but also that within the space of the festival, the accumulation of time is present through the presence of traditions and actors’ reflections on the past.

The Fifth Principle Foucault’s fifth principle is that a heterotopia is a system of opening and closing with explicit and implicit entry barriers.

Wilks and Quinn’s 2016 research on festivals finds that in addition to the traditional barriers to entry such as buying a ticket to the event, there is an invisible barrier, the crossing of which is dependent on levels of symbolic capitalism famously presented by Pierre Bourdieu (1986), specifically levels of cultural and social capital.

In their research, Wilks and Quinn (2016) explain the issue of entry barriers to a festival by connecting “real” admittance to a festival with the concept of social capital as introduced by Bourdieu (1986):

“The numerous mentions of skills and experience demonstrates that entry to the heterotopian space, in order to build social capital, needs a certain amount of existing cultural capital in order to gain entry, as well as the social capital to actually gain entry and become an insider.” (Wilks and Quinn, 2016: 35)

Their research finds that members of the space are adamant in accumulating symbolic wealth as to reach the core of the heterotopia, which serves to show that there are

18 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen multiple barriers of entry, not just from external society, but also barriers within the space. In line with this Quinn & Wilks finds that people including artist, personnel, and spectators aspire to get closer to the center of “the sacred place” even though they have already passed the point of entry to the festival, thus extending Foucault’s principle to say that it also matters how people act within the heterotopia to get closer to the core (Quinn and Wilks, 2017: 42).

In the case of Burning Man special barriers to entry and rituals certainly exist as well. The festival takes place in a remote part of the Nevada desert, forcing participants to reach the space with supplies to survive in hard conditions. Beyond the expenses of basic survival and the ticket expense Burners willingly also spent money, time and energy on creating elaborate art project as a sacrifice to the festival (Gilmore, p. 216).

The contribution of art projects follows the core concepts of self-expression as a compulsory part of the festival with the belief that there should be no spectators but that everyone has to indulge. Another ritual is that of the gift economy, where the festival promotes self-reliance of the community through bartering (Gilmore, p. 214). Gilmore expresses the festival as an ordeal and draws parallels to the Christian pilgrimage and its rites, which emphasizes that Burning Man requires a great deal of sacrifice by participants. Even though Gilmore does not explicitly connect these rituals to the concept of heterotopia, clear parallels exist between his descriptions and Foucault’s fifth principle; “To get in one must have a certain permission and make certain gestures” (Foucault, p. 7).

Foucault’s principle of heterotopias as spaces that open and close, are in festivals shown as both physical and social barriers to entry that must be crossed in order to fully immerse into the space, suggesting that there are different levels of entry into a heterotopic space.

The Sixth Principle The final principle of the heterotopia is the notion that the heterotopic space can only be seen as an “other” space in relation to all other real spaces. If perceived from within the heterotopia without relating to other spaces, the heterotopia and its practices and way of ordering might appear conventional and normalized. Thus the heterotopic space must be viewed in relation to others - some context must be applied.

A festival is a space where actors abandon their life for a period of pure enjoyment, indulging in various pleasures. People can experience everyday moments such as eating and sleeping, but outside the confinement of the norm. Wilks and Quinn confirm that the two festivals investigated in Western Ireland were exactly “other places”:

19 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“While the idea of the festival as sacred space is not a new one, the data presented here really illustrates how re-ordered space produces an “other place,” one where social interactions are intensified and the creation of social capital is facilitated.” (Wilks and Quinn, 2016: 35)

In their following research Quinn and Wilks (2017) confirm that these festivals as “other places” with altered time and space enabled attending people to reflect over “...themselves, their social worlds, and their places.” (Quinn and Wilks, 2017: 43). The fact that heterotopias are always related to other real spaces brings out an interesting element of heterotopia as an educational space, where participants can bring back learning to the default society after experiencing this new space. Wilks and Quinn address this:

“There was clear evidence that the festivals initiated and educated people in folk arts practices, even when these tastes had not been previously acquired within the family or through prior learning. To date, the role that festivals play in forming, maintaining and shaping cultural capital is under- researched. Linking it to heterotopia in order to further advance understandings of the processes at play is an area worthy of further research.”

In the case of Burning Man Gilmore states how the festival can “provide opportunities to reflect on the meaning of basic religious and cultural values…” (Gilmore, 2008: 217). Three-quarters of the hundreds of participants from the research state that Burning Man has in different ways changed their life or perspective on the realms of self, others, identity, boundaries, community, nature, and spirituality (ibid.)

In many ways Gilmore’s descriptions of Burning Man sounds like a compensation heterotopia, where a “perfect” temporary society which exposes other real places, is created. The core element of the festival is the release from mundane structures. By physically removing themselves from society, they parallel the activities of Christian pilgrims, moving from the mundane center, the daily life, to a sacred periphery; a place on the edge of society - the festival grounds.

However, as Gilmore also argues, a complete break away from real society is not occurring in its fullest form as Burners inevitably reproduce familiar civic infrastructures with “streets”, homes with friends and family, and traditional societal structures (Gilmore, p. 216). Total separation is not evident with Burning Man as modern living amenities are still a part of the festival, and status between people still exist, since some can afford to bring an RV with elaborate amenities and others only a tent.

20 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Foucault does not imply that full separation must exist in a heterotopia. He uses the compensation heterotopia example of Jesuit colonies in South America, where villages was designed with an infrastructure that allowed optimal human perfection, still consisting of conventional elements like, church, school, roads etc. (Foucault, p. 8). The case of separation and relation to the real world brings food for thought on how alternative the heterotopia is and how relatable it is to real society.

By relating to the outside world, the heterotopia reveals itself as an atypical space, which in previous researches are proven to be grounds for reflection on normal society.

3.2 APPLYING THEORY AND RESEARCH TO THE CASE STUDY

This thesis paper will take point of departure in Foucault’s “Of Other Spaces: Utopias and Heterotopias” (1981) lecture, with the aim to uncover whether the case study of Roskilde Festival can be defined as a heterotopia, applying Foucault’s six principles. The research will expand upon Foucault’s framework using abovementioned theories. Genocchio’s (1995) critique on heterotopias being physical spaces will in this paper not be taken into consideration, as the research believes in the physical existence of heterotopias in societies. Through the Six Principles of the Heterotopia presented by Foucault, it will in fact be able to distinguish between spaces that are heterotopic in nature and not, and that spaces can be heterotopic to a greater or lesser extent.

Hetherington’s (1997) commentary on the previously narrowly interpretation of Foucault’s theory of heterotopias will be taken into consideration, and the research lean on Hetherington’s claim that heterotopias do not necessarily only exist on the brink of society, but may in fact be physically placed in the center. Furthermore, his notion that heterotopias can be simultaneously spaces of social freedom and control resonates with this thesis as we believe that one does not preclude the other - as they “are both ways of social ordering” (Hetherington, 1997: 42).

This thesis believes that Foucault’s view of heterotopias as spaces of resistance is still a defining characteristic, however in combination of Topinka’s (2010) assertion that heterotopias are largely knowledge producing spaces, we will evolve on the two theories, presupposing that through a nature of resistance, there is grounds for developing new knowledge.

The final commentary on Foucault is that of Johnson (2006) and his critique in that a heterotopia, Foucault’s notion of a utopia in reality does in actuality not meet the

21 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen requirements of being a manifested utopia as heterotopias can be a place of struggle, such as prisons, asylums etc.

This research will take upon itself to define a utopia in a broad manner. Johnson claims that the concept of a utopia is based on a desire for a better way of life, however we will interpret a utopia not as a fictional description of a space that is positively “perfect”, but rather leaning more towards a degree of “ultimate”, i.e. that it is an extreme concept. Defining the concept of utopia more as a place of absolutes instead of absolute perfection, gives room to claim that a heterotopia can be a physical manifestation of a utopia. By taking away the crucial point of the positive or negative, the measurement and principles can be measured in terms of neutral absolutes.

To further take into consideration the case study Roskilde Festival, this thesis considers Wilks & Quinn’s (2016) findings of juxtapositions of physical space, Falassi’s (1987) findings of the act of valorization as a starting point for the removal from society, and Gilmore’s (2008) study on the difficulties of reaching a utopian state with a heterogenic population.

This thesis notes Foucault’s introduction of vacation villages as both accumulatory and transitory events, and the example of the Ramadan as different than normal time measurements and discourses, together with Quinn and Wilks’ (2017) findings on participants’ remembrance of earlier out-of-time experiences.

Foucault’s fourth principle of the heterotopia largely asserts that spaces are either accumulating spaces of time or transitory events. However with the previous findings of the Ramadan, together with Quinn and Wilks’ (2017) findings on participants’ remembrance of earlier out-of-time experiences, the research develops on the lightly touched upon combination of the two extremes. Foucault mentions a recent trend of vacation villages in his 1984 publication, and the thesis emphasizes that this merging of qualities will be increasingly prevalent in present time, as seen in the above research.

This thesis hypothesizes that heterotopic spaces will be, to a large extent, an integration of Foucault’s two extreme temporal classifications. Foucault’s fifth principle of opening and closing is represented in multiple research cases, with the festival being situated behind a barrier to entry that must be crossed - whether it be physical hardship of nature at Burning Man festival, or internal barriers in Quinn & Wilks (2016) folk festivals.

By combining the theory with previous findings, this thesis will assume that there will be both physical and nonphysical barriers to entry when entering the festival, and will further hypothesize that additional barriers may be found within areas of the space itself.

22 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Foucault’s last trait of heterotopias is that of relation to other spaces. The heterotopia can only exist in relation to the normal space, and through Wilks & Quinn’s (2016) and Gilmore’s (2008) earlier research examples we appreciate the importance of always keeping the outside world in mind. Based on the abovementioned investigations the investigation builds upon Foucault’s two extreme poles of relation; the space of illusion and the space of compensation, and will assert that in a real-life case, it will be found that a heterotopia lies in the middle of the spectrum of absolutes. By using Foucault as the main theorist, but combining some of his major commentaries together with concrete research studies on the topic of festivals as a heterotopia, the principles from the original lecture of “Des Espace Autres” is evolved from being a vaguely described analytical tool, to a further defined theoretical framework. The combination of original thought, further developments, and real case findings strengthens our theoretical perspective and prepares us to investigate Roskilde Festival and how the notion of the heterotopia can be applied to understanding the experience of the event.’ ‘

23 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 4: METHODOLOGY

The approach to this thesis is inductive, based on qualitative data from a case study and follows the overall philosophy of interpretivism and social constructivism. The framing of the thesis has been an iterative process. Roskilde Festival has been the case from the beginning, however the angle from which to approach the case has been adopted along the way in an exploratory manner. The considerations leading to the final research question is visualized through the research onion as presented by Saunders et. al. (2006). In the order of starting from the outside layer and moving to the core our research process and methodology consideration are presented in this chapter.

4.1. PHILOSOPHY

Taking point of departure in Saunders et. al.’s (2003) research diagram, the initial consideration of the thesis is the framing of the overall philosophical view on how knowledge is developed and judged as being acceptable. Adding to the terminology of Saunders the research presents its overall philosophy through the question of ontology and epistemology as presented by Bryman & Bell (2015).

Ontology The question of ontology boils down to what ultimately exists or is ultimately real. In the case of social ontology, the consideration is whether something is a social entity, existing also in a reality external to social actors, or whether it is a social constructivism dependent on the perception of the actor. Simplified, ontology tackles the question of social entities to be perceived as objective or subjective.

24 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The objective position in ontology is that social phenomena are external facts beyond the social actor’s influence, i.e. independent from actors’ existence. Constructivism, on the other hand, takes the opposite stance and asserts that social phenomena are shaped and given meaning by social actors, who produce them through social action and continuous development.

The ontological point of departure in this thesis paper is that of constructivism. The basis of this choice lies in the investigation of people and their opinions rather than objects. Furthermore, the theoretical framework is developed following this philosophical departure which believes that the case being studied is too complex to boil down into a universal truth.

Epistemology The epistemological view which this thesis is based upon, is on interpretivism – the view that natural and social sciences differ fundamentally from one another, and that the researcher must understand the subjective meaning of social action, instead of leaning on the positivist position of the methods of natural science to study social reality.

Including Max Weber’s notion of Verstehen, describing sociology as “a science which attempts the interpretive understanding of social action in order to arrive at a causal explanation of its course and effects” (Bryman & Bell, 2015. 28) the researcher undertakes the task of exploring causal explanations also in social action rather than merely external forces being the positivist approach.

Taking point of departure in the interpretivist method, this thesis aims to understand concepts of those involved in the social actions studied, thus interpreting rather than just explaining. By taking this point of departure the research question will be answered based on responses from individuals acknowledging that their subjective reality is socially embedded.

4.2 APPROACH

The overall approach of this thesis paper is inductive, meaning that data is collected and theory is developed as a result of the data analysis (Saunders et. al., 2003: 85). Despite following a main theory in the beginning of this report, the thesis paper is kept inductive by keeping the data gathering and primary analysis external from the theory, only introducing and indulging in the theory later in the process as a way to place the research in a context and make theoretical meaning of the data.

25 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

From the beginning the process has been inductive in the way that the case has been investigated early in the process which allowed for the findings to lead the way in framing the research. Having had a focus on Roskilde Festival from the beginning with special access to interview the four bookers who make each year’s music program the research initially wanted to approach the case from a different angle. It was intended to use the booking group as a case of how to deal with apparent issues within creative industries, such as creating a festival experience, dealing with creatives and all the players in between, while also serving a diverse audience with different preferences and subjective perceptions of an intangible product and difficulty in predicting demand. With these overall intertwining concepts the research started by making three interviews lasting between forty minutes to an hour with the bookers without a more specific theoretical framework to address the case. In lack of a more specific angle to the case, the focus was redirected after investigating Michel Foucault’s piece on the notion of the heterotopia. The initial interviews served as a supplementary primary data collection in the analytical framework, and the main part of the data collection was obtained on-site at Roskilde Festival from participants at the event.

In this part of the process the research stayed inductive in approach first of all by the specific data collection (as specified below) and secondly by not indulging deeply in the specific theories of Foucault and the related literature until after the data-gathering at Roskilde Festival. The thesis consciously attempted to familiarize itself with the main theory of heterotopia in order to approach the case with some framework and ensure a reasonable scope within the data, but then putting the theory aside in the data gathering and first parts of analysis. Given the approach to the case the process can also be classified as exploratory in the way that the focus initially was broad and became more and more narrow as it progressed in the research (Saunders, et. al.: 97).

4.3 RESEARCH STRATEGY

According to Saunders et. al (2003), the research strategy is the general plan of how to answer the research question. The strategy of this thesis paper is a case study, defined by Robson (2002: 178) as “a strategy for doing research which involves an empirical investigation of a particular contemporary phenomenon within its real life context using multiple sources of evidence” (presented in Saunders et. al., 2003: 93). The case study Roskilde Festival is investigated as a phenomenon in its real setting by visiting the festival in the year 2017. The reason for going in depth with one phenomenon is the identified wish to test the applicability of Foucault’s theory to a

26 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen real life case, and the focus was initially directed towards Roskilde Festival, since we had special access to interview the bookers. Using the strategy of a case study allow us to go in depth with the case but also limits the findings to only representing this case, entailing a lack of generalizability, which will be explained in the limitation section below.

4.4 TIME HORIZON

Given the fact the data is gathered within the 8 days of Roskilde Festival 2017 this thesis paper is cross-sectional, dealing with the case at only one point in time (Saunders et. al., 2003: 96). Due to time constraints it is not in this specific research possible to investigate Roskilde Festival on a longitudinal basis, at least not with qualitative data from the festival space as primary data, since this would require visiting the festival over a longer period of time. Delimiting the scope to a case study through the focus on the festival in a cross-sectional manner, allowed more effort and time into the details of the case in its current context.

4.5 DATA COLLECTION

The primary data is collected from three different sources: 12 interviews with participants at the festival, 2 personal observations documented in written form during the festival, and 3 in-depth interviews with music bookers from Roskilde Festival before the festival. For a specific detailed overview of the data collected see appendix. Given the approach and strategy the value of the thesis lies in its richness in detail of the case, which is why it is found suitable to include multiple sources of data to uncover the themes from different angles. The more specific form of data, the way in which it is collected and considerations regarding the process is presented for each type below.

27 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Participant interviews Interviewer Participant(s) Age Location Day/time Duration Role

Søren Marléne 26 Water stand next to Thursday 12.27 Volunteer Orange Stage afternoon

Søren Mie 23 Camping area E Thursday 05.27 Paid guest evening

Søren Volunteer 1 24 Volunteers’ lounge Friday 08.46 Volunteer afternoon

Volunteer 2 25 Volunteer

Søren Canada 23 Concert at Orange Friday 08.13 Paid guest Stage evening

Søren Thomas 45 At Meyer’s food Friday 06.55 Paid guest stand evening

Søren Axel 25 Camping area C Saturday 04.40 Volunteer noon

Søren Absalon 1 33 Sitting at Absalon Saturday 12.00 Paid guest stand noon

Absalon 2 37 Paid guest

Absalon 3 34 Paid guest

Søren Jonas 25 In front of Arena Saturday 07.40 Free ticket stage afternoon from work

Sally 26 Paid guest

Emma Lukas 25 Camping area G Saturday 14.23 Paid guest morning

Emma Mari 25 Rising Stage Area Sunday 34.53 Paid guest morning

Rasmus 21 Paid guest

Emma Rune 31 Backstage Artist Friday 13.53 Musician Area afternoon

Emma Vildana 29 Peter Larsen Kaffe Saturday 25.41 Paid guest (C) morning

28 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Interviews: Participants The interviews with participants are conducted at this year’s festival of 2017 and in order to ensure the most diverse sample size possible the interview respondents are randomly selected around the festival space. Given the exploratory inductive approach to the case, the aim of the interviews are to uncover as many thoughts on the themes brought up by Foucault, without pushing the theory into the interview. Therefore the interviews are semi-structured and are only based loosely on the main themes which Foucault draws upon, such as the overall theme of time. An interview guide is the point of departure for the open-ended interviews (see full guide in appendix). As expressed by Saunders et. al. (2003) semi- structured interviews have a pre-made list of themes and questions to be covered, but allows for the freedom to omit certain questions or add more in each specific interview. The themes covered and the length of the interviews vary from one to the other making them non-standardized (Saunders et. al., 2003: 246). The interviews in this thesis are semi-structured, due to the fluid nature of the conversation. It is important to follow the overall themes of Foucault, to avoid too broad a scope, but also crucial to allow for the conversation to develop and get in-depth explanations from participants, without putting words in their mouth.

Through introduction of only select keywords, respondents are able to discuss topics freely. Given the research design, the goal of the interviews is to get a detailed picture of the case and ideas of emergence of patterns. Only after identifying the patterns from the participants’ thoughts and opinions would it be possible to return and investigate whether there are similarities with the theory.

As a part of allowing the participants to “pour their heart out” on these themes and get “on-the-spot”-opinions the interviews are conducted in a casual manner attempting to catch the participant thoughts almost as a part of a normal conversation. A conversation is often initiated before asking the participant for an interview, resulting in a more informal frame, attempting to avoid a clear distance between the interviewers and the interviewed. Given this approach interviews are collected whenever there is a natural window, resulting in interviews from many different scenarios around the festival. This is an important part of the data collection, since the participants differentiate in age, occupation, role at the festival, reason for attendance etc. Such diversity is what is sought out for to go in detail with the case. In order to reach the largest area possible, there are not arranged meetings between researchers during the gathering of research at the festival grounds.

29 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Another way that allows an in-depth conversation to unfold from the interview guide is to conduct focus group interviews. Interviewing a small group of two to three people at a time with the same premade list, allows for the participants to interact and initiate a discussion. The strength of the focus-group interview is the way in which the participants discuss in a free manner, which might reveal deeper important insights (Saunders et. al., 2003: 270). During interviews the researcher experiences the flow of discussion, and observes that participants start asking each other questions and sometimes disagree, which forces them to elaborate their points. In these instances the researcher takes on the role of the moderator (Saunders, et. al., 2003: 270), making sure that the discussion stayed within the desired themes. All interviews are recorded and later transcribed, since they range from 5 to 45 minutes and it is deemed necessary to go the way by transcription rather than a rough content analysis to obtain as large a portion of raw data possible.

Participant observation Participant observation is also done as primary data adding to the interviews. This form of data collection can be defined as “the researchers attempt to participate fully in the lives and activities of the subjects and thus become member of their group, organization or community” (Gill and Johnson, 1997: 113, as presented in Saunders et. al., 2003: 222). The strength of this form of data collection is how it allows the researcher to not only observe the phenomenon but take it a step further to also experience it and thus better understand (ibid.).

Saunders et. al. (2003) explains how participant observation is a strong form of collecting data in social science by introducing the concept of symbolic interactionism, where “the individual derives a sense of identity from interaction and communication with others” (Saunders et. al., 2003: 222). Following this idea it makes sense to take part of the world being studied since it allows the researcher to understand the “symbolic” world of the participant and thus “get to the bottom of the processes by which the individual constantly construct and reconstructs his or her identity” (Saunders et. al., 2003: 223). In this case several notes are written down on different experiences during each day. Immediately after the festival these notes are written out to a more detailed story, while still having the memories fresh in mind. The field stories consist of both primary observations with simple notes of something that happened in a descriptive manner as well as secondary observation, with included statements and interpretations of different events (Saunders et. al., 2003: 227).

As the role of researcher is revealed in some instances and not revealed in others the roles of the researchers are both complete participants and participant as observer

30 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

(Saunders et. al., 2003: 225). Common for both is the taking part in activities (ibid.), meaning that the researcher is acting exactly as those around. On the one side this allows for the most realistic picture, since the researcher is not changing behavior or making the observed change behavior, but the level of participation also poses the question of observer bias, where the researcher is too big a part of the event to subsequently write objectively about it (Saunders et. al., 2003: 231). While this might pose a limitation to this part of our data, the observation adds some elements that would not be covered in the overall data. Examples are descriptive observations of what actually exists on the festival, of what people are doing and how they are acting and behaving, which is not covered in the interviews, since they to a larger extent reveal individual interpretations and reflections.

Interview with bookers Booker Role description Location Day Time of interview

Stefan Full time employed in charge of metal, rock, Cafe in 9/05/2017 43.24 hard rock and punk. Primarily booking artist Copenhagen from Denmark and Scandinavia

Thomas Has been volunteering in the booking group Festival 17/05/2017 41.04 from 2010 to 2015, and has been employed full offices in time since 2015 in charge of indie / alternative, Roskilde electronic and hip hop. Primarily concerned with artists outside Scandinavia.

Peter Has worked for the booking group for 21 years. Festival 17/05/2017 42.32 Started booking for one scene and is now in offices in charge of booking “world” music including Roskilde special productions and everything that is not considered “main music”

Interviews: Bookers As mentioned above the final data source is three interviews gathered before the focus of the study, narrowed to the framework of Foucault. Parts of the initial interviews prove useful in the analysis and are therefore included. These raw interviews are longer, more in-depth, and more structured than the ones conducted at the festival, however still semi-structured (see the question guide in appendix). The aim of the interviews is to uncover the process of making the program, with the aim of searching for specific issues to address in the research. Since elaborate answers and the possibility to follow up on questions is needed visiting the Roskilde Festival office and conducting the interviews face-to-face, while recording them for later transcription is deemed necessary.

Given the fact that the overall theoretical framework has not been discovered at this point, one can argue that this is a purely inductive part of the research, without the

31 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen risk of the researchers bringing in a pre-supposed agenda. However bias within this type of data exists, given that fact that all three respondents represent and are proud producers of the program at Roskilde Festival, which might skew the answers when discussing the festival.

4.6 DATA ANALYSIS – CODING PROCESS

The coding process is done in the same way on both participant interviews, booker interviews and the observation notes. The largest amount of data is from the participant interviews, and examples are taken from this data to explain the coding process. As explained above the participant interviews are semi-structured and participants are encouraged to extent their answers beyond the pre-made interview guide. The upside of this is the detail of the data, whereas this also entails a vast amount of data, where concepts are intertwined in elaborate answers and some parts are not relevant to the overall themes of the research. Through the coding process the data has been ordered in three steps looking for general patterns. In these steps, the theoretical framework has not been applied; the common themes of the data are the focus.

The first step is to go through the transcription of each interview and pull out quotes that have any relation to the overall theme of Roskilde Festival as a different space. Each quote is put into a table with the name of the interviewed as in the example in Figure 1 below (see appendix for full table). The aim of this step is to discard all the irrelevant talk and divide long explanations into shorter quotes, which preferably covers only one topic.

Name Quote Rasmus “(time) has no meaning. yes, when the concerts take place, otherwise you have all the time in the world” Mari “there are concerts that take place, but that is the only thing that has meaning” Figure 1: First level coding

In the second level themes drawn out from the content of the specific quote are introduced to each of the quotes in order to be able to identify the specific topic being addressed in the quote. These themes are still very specific. Inspired by the Gioia Methodology explained in the article Seeking Qualitative Rigor in Inductive Research: Notes on the Gioia Methodology by Gioia et. al. (2012) the research allows the data to speak for itself by only tagging quotes with very specific descriptions leaving us with more than 80 different themes. See Figure 2 below for example of themes (see appendix for full list).

32 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

As explained by Gioia et. al. (2012) one should be overwhelmed by the number of categories and find oneself “lost” at some point as a part of the process to find meaning and patterns later on (Gioia, et. al., 2012: 20).

Theme Name Quote Change of state Marlene “You’ll come back with a different state of mind because you have been of mind removed from your regular routine” Freedom of Marlene “Here also I love that people have permission to be who they wanna be.” expression Reasons to go Mie “I’m here because it’s cozy and it’s nice to have a camp with all your friends and you can have fun for many days and apart from that see a lot of music” Figure 2: Second level coding including themes

In the third level of coding the investigation of patterns based on similarities and differences in the content of the quotes with the aim of making meta-quotes is conducted. An example here is time. Here all quotes discussing time at the festival are gathered al and is then identified how the concept is referred to in different ways. For example some quotes state how time is perceived as either running slower or faster, while some quotes discuss how concerts and eating are new measurements of time dismissing the clock. The former type of quotes are put under a meta-code named Perception of Time while the latter ones are gathered under the label Measurement of Time. See an example of this in Figure 3 below. While grouping these quotes we are one step deeper in the analysis aim to uncover a deeper structure in the data.

Meta-code: Perception of time

Theme Name Quote

Change in perception Lukas “Time goes more quickly. I can’t describe it on a scale. The days. It of time feels like they go by quicker.”

Perception of time Rune “Perhaps time goes slower (at the festival, red.)”

Meta-code: Measurement of time

Theme Name Quote

Time Mari “(concerts, red.) is the only justification for time. Then you forget time a measurement little, (...)”

Fluidity of time Vildana ““When you are home you get up at some point, eat breakfast, eat lunch at some point, eat dinner. You don’t do that (at Roskilde Festival, red.), (...)” Figure 3: Level 3 coding ordering quotes under meta-codes

33 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The fourth and final level of analysis is investigating meta-codes in connection with the theoretical framework, resembling the second step analysis of the Gioia Methodology, where the research investigates the question, “What is going on here, theoretically?” (Gioia et. al., 2012: 20). Connections between the data and theory are developed by taking one principle of heterotopia at a time and discuss how each principle might link to each of the meta-codes. This ordering results in a final table of analysis, giving an overview of how to present each principle from the voice of the data. In some cases multiple points are made, which are divided by letters. While discussing these points the arguments made in plenum for later use in the writing out the discussion are noted down in the table. See an example of this table in Figure 4 below.

First Principle of Foucault

Point C: Heterotopia of deviance by behaviour

Meta-code Argument

Collective behaviour tendencies Shows how deviant behaviour is normalized Figure 4: Level 4 analysis connecting meta-codes from data under Foucault’s principles

An important part of the coding process is to keep the first three levels free of the theoretical framework to ensure that the meaning of the raw data is not limited too early in the process, resulting in a vast amount of meta-codes purely based on findings in the data.

4.7 LIMITATIONS

Given the choice of research design the findings will provide in-depth context specific knowledge, which has its strengths but also entails certain limitations.

Common for multiple data collection approaches is the issue of reliability, which concerns the standardisation of the data gathering process and the question of whether the same information would be revealed if other researchers did the same study (Saunders et. al., 2003: 252). In other words, could the study be easily replicated?

In the participant and booker interviews the most apparent issue in regards to reliability is the minimal use of structure and explorative approach, leading the

34 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen interviews in different directions, making it hard to replicate each interview. This is more the case in the participant interviews, than the booker interviews, where the research follows the process of booking artists in a chronological flow, giving more structure. Another element that might suggest issues with reliability is the interviewer bias explained by Saunders et. al. (2003) as the interviewer imposing his own beliefs or theory to the interview through wording, tone and behaviour. In this case study this naturally exists to some extent, because the researchers are approaching the case with a theoretical framework in mind, however consciously limiting this by attempting to only cover the overall themes of the theory, without specifically mentioning theory or using the same terminology of the theory in the interviews.

In this regard the study is, again, inspired by the methodology paper of Gioia et. al. (2012), that explains how a level of semi-ignorance about prior work in the theoretical field, meaning that one should not have devoted too much time on the literature review before gathering data, is a way to avoid this form of bias and keep the approach inductive (Gioia et. al., 2012: 23). When gathering the data the knowledge consists mainly of knowing the specific theory of heterotopia by Foucault, while the in-depth context of the theory in the literature was only considered afterwards, in that way keeping a level of semi-ignorance as suggested by Gioia et al.

The other side the bias problem in relation to reliability is interviewee bias or response bias, where the interviewed will be sensitive to certain topics and hold back in the response, thus only drawing a partial picture of the truth (Saunders, et. al., 2003: 253). A possible way to minimize this sort of bias is to establish some credibility and gain the interviewee’s confidence (Saunders et. al., 2003: 257). As explained in the data collection chapter a deliberate attempt is made to open the interview in a friendly manner, making it more of a casual conversation about thoughts and opinions rather than a formal interview. Along with the very informal setting of the interviews around the festival space, this could act as a way of minimizing this form of bias, however this bias is hard to control as the interviewer. Note that the loose informal nature of the interviews might lower this bias, but on the contrary this is also what makes it hard to replicate, since the informal nature made all the interviews context specific and different.

In terms of the participant observation, the response bias is removed from the equation, since there is no interaction, but only observation on the researcher’s part. However bias still exists in that the researcher might only observe what he wants to, or what fits the theory in mind, however the semi-ignorance is a way to limit this bias.

Having been a part of the case studied, observer bias is also kept in mind, which means that the researcher will have a hard time detaching himself from the case, and that the sense-making and interpretations will also be the researcher’s own view on the case (Saunders et. al., 2003: 230). However this is a bias that always exists, and

35 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen following the philosophy of interpretivism the researchers also interpret the case according to own understandings and realities, which is something to be aware of.

The research method and data collection follows that the exact same study would be hard to replicate in a new context or later in time, however, one must note that this is not the aim of this thesis. The strength in this kind of study lies in the exploration of the case, and an attempt to make the data collection processes too standardized for later replication, would limit flexibility in this exploration.

Exploration and an in-depth approach to the case is why this type of study is strong in validity, which concerns if “the findings are really about what they appear to be about” (Saunders, et. al., 2003: 101) and whether the researcher gain access to the participants knowledge and is able to infer the meaning that is intended from the interviewee (Saunders et. al., 2003: 253). In the interviews the validity is not raised as an issue, given the fact that exactly these kind of interviews allow for the deeper detailed look into people’s interpretations and understandings. Having collected data at the festival also adds to the validity since this form of data is high on ecological validity because social phenomena are studied in their actual natural contexts (Saunders et. al., 2003: 229).

While the validity is strong one must also note how the choice of doing a case study involves lack of generalizability, which is explained as the ability to generalize on the findings or transfer them to other settings (Saunders et. al., 2003: 102). Doing a qualitative case study this thesis does not represent the broader population of e.g. all music festivals, and therefore the findings cannot be transferred and asserted to apply in other cases.

In this way the case study is sometimes seen as “unscientific” and is amongst others being criticized for its lack of generalizability. However, in the article Five Misunderstandings of the Case Study Flyvbjerg, B. (2006) asserts that a case study does not attempt to generalize and that the specificity is exactly the power of this research strategy. As this thesis follows the epistemological view of interpretivism the case study is a strong strategy, since everything is context specific and not one objective truth exists. In other words, the thesis is not searching for objective proof of this theory but rather producing context specific knowledge. Thus, it makes sense to go in depth and attempt to tie the theory to the real life specific case in order to challenge and adapt it if necessary.

In this process of applying theory Flyvbjerg (2006) introduces another critique of the case study, which is the belief that researchers tend to just confirm their preconceived notion and only see what they are looking for. Flyvbjerg (2006) argues that this is not the case, since in the process of going in depth in an exploratory manner and using qualitative data, which goes to the level of “how” and “why” the researchers often

36 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen challenges or falsifies the applied theory (Flybjerg, B. 2006). Like in the consideration regarding reliability above an attempt to avoid the specific theory while gathering the data is made.

Conclusively it is asserted that limitations exist within the reliability and generalizability of this research, while the qualitative data and exploratory inductive nature as well as the on-site data collection, establishes the research as strong in validity.

37 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 5: FINDINGS

The following chapter of the thesis paper will provide an overview of findings found in the data collection. The qualitatively based research has been uncovered through investigation of participants at the festival (on-site interviewing), participant observations (on-site field diary) and interviews with the music bookers at the main office of Roskilde Festival.

5.1 PRESENTATION OF DATA: PARTICIPANT INTERVIEWS

In the following section we present the data within these meta-codes identified from the third level coding, uncovering any patterns within each subject. In the presentation of findings, the numbers after a quote reference to full level 3 data set (see appendix).

5.1.1Time

Perception of time The first identified approach to discussing the concept of time at the festival, was regarding how participants perceived the speed of time. As stated by Lukas: “Time goes quicker (...), the days, it feels like they go by quicker” (7), while on the contrary Rune suggest that “perhaps time goes slower (at the festival, red.)” (9). In line with time moving more slowly there was a “no rush” mentality, based on the lack of plans. As quoted by Canada “... you have nowhere to be and all day to get there” (10). She continues to mention that this is especially true before the music program starts: “Here (during the music, red.) it’s like, okay we have to focus a little more because we wanna see what we wanna see, type of thing.” Rasmus follows the same distinction before and during the music and believes that “time has no meaning” (9), except for when the music starts. He has the perception that before the program “you have all the time in the world” (9). Even though it is both suggested that time moves quicker or slower, the common tendency is a change in the flow of time.

Measurement of time In line with the change in time a pattern is discovered of how time is only measured based on certain activities during the festival. Also mentioned above the concerts appear to be the only activity putting some rhythm into the days where time is otherwise free flowing. As stated by Mari:

“The only concept of time is related to which concerts you want to see, and whether you can eat in between, make it back to the camp or not – how long time it takes. You never really look at the time, only to see when the concert is.” (13).

38 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The same goes in relation to meals, where no structure exists, in contrast to daily life:

“I feel that in daily life you eat at 7am, at 12pm I eat lunch, and at 6pm I eat dinner. At Roskilde it’s like, I eat when I’m hungry, if I’m hungry. Maybe. If I have time and the queue isn’t too long” (Mari, 14)

Vildana feels the same as she contrasts the normal meal rhythms of eating breakfast, lunch and dinner to those of Roskilde Festival: “...You don’t do that (at Roskilde Festival, red.), everything is pushed and it doesn’t matter, it’s not even sure that you eat... time becomes inconsequential, it becomes liquid” (15).

Time is not confined by certain things you have to do during the day, except for concerts, thus making it rather insignificant and no concern for these participants. Mie believes the same, and for her this is valuable: “It’s a relaxation that you don’t have to think about time. That’s also what makes it nice, that you escape that.” (17). The actual clock appears to have no meaning. The milestones of the day that build structure are constructed by Roskilde Festival in the form of the music program, while everything in between is fluid.

No traditional time constraints As in the examples of eating at odd times, the fluidity of time especially becomes apparent since behavior is not tied to a certain time of the day. Vildana says that this is where some level of freedom exists. There is no judgment by drinking an Irish Coffee in the morning (20), and it does not matter if you are drinking a beer at 10 in the morning or 7 in the evening, because nobody cares (21).

The fact that time is not of importance appears to be twofold. There is less that has to be done as expressed by Volunteer 2: “There isn’t so much you need to do, it’s not as busy as the big city”, and there is no judgment of when to do what, thus you can whatever whenever. This is expressed by Vildana: “...It’s the freedom there is, you can do exactly what you want when you want.” (20), with the example of for example sleeping:

“You take a nap at some point, you don’t sleep at night, you take a nap. Whether you do it in the afternoon, in the morning or at night is up to you. In that way time doesn’t matter” (16).

Festival temporality Another aspect of time is not so much related to how time is perceived as flowing inside the festival but more of a view of the festival as a time cut out of the ordinary time, which is only temporary. An example here is Vildana who does not think of the

39 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen time after the festival, but only the present time: “The future doesn’t matter, so in a way there is no one who judges you” (25). In this context Thomas says that the only reason that Roskilde Festival is unique is because it is built from a civilization that you leave behind for a temporary time, but that it would not work permanently: “It wouldn’t be something you wanted to do much longer than those four days.” (207) Rune on the other hand cannot leave ordinary time behind, during the period of the festival:

“I can understand that people feel (like in a bubble), and I can also be drawn to it, but I still walk around with a bundle of sense that I have to do something the week after or two weeks or three weeks, so I never quite get away” (24)

Concluding on the overall subject of time there are definitely considerations of difference in time. The festival exists in some way as a mental time-out for some, and there is a tendency that time within the festival is fluid and only structured around the music program of the festival. The warm-up days are especially signified by a lack of consideration of time. The free flowing of time is connected to the fact that nothing particular has to be done, and especially that nothing has to be done in accordance to certain times. Eating, drinking and sleeping is based on personal moods rather than a universal schedule. In addition time is both perceived as moving slower and faster.

5.1.2 Behavior and mind-set patterns

During the obtainment of the data from audience members, often talked about points were reflections on behavior and changes in mindsets when at Roskilde Festival. Their reflections spanned widely, which then in level three of the analysis led to dividing the data into more specific themes, with each their focus.

Personal change in mind-set and action The concept of personal change in mindset and action encompasses the quotes in with the respondent takes point of departure in him/herself. Mie and Lukas both directly quote drinking as a change in their behavior; “I think the biggest difference is that down here I’m drunk all the time and I’m not at home” (50) and “I also drink more than I usually do” (43). The data shows that drinking is a substantial part of the experience, and drinking patterns are exaggerated during the festival. Mari describes herself as “a more attentive and caring person” (45), sharing an anecdote on when she takes time out of her day to help two people who had had too much to drink. Lukas, on the other hand, poignantly states: “I am not so helpful”. Vildana, Canada and Rune touch upon the feeling of freedom - Rune pointing out that he isn’t necessarily free even though he feels like it (53). Vildana seems to appreciate

40 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen her new-found freedom to call herself whatever she likes and kiss strangers when playing beer-bowling, something that she points she would never normally do (46), whilst Canada explains that it’s easier to be “human” and “real” at the festival than in the “outside world” because she feels “more natural” at Roskilde; “Just doing whatever I wanna do, like just, whatever kind, ehm, like not instinct but like any type of idea like I can do it” (47). Absalon 1 and Volunteer 1 mention clothes in relation to behavioral patterns, Absalon reminisces about rain gear, claiming that the first ten years of going to Roskilde Festival, they hadn’t thought of it and “it’s your own approach to it” (48), now dressing themselves comfortably. Volunteer says: “I have considered (going home) today… but it’s just to go home to a real bed and take a bath. Dry clothes because it’s raining. If it had been sunny all week… then it wouldn’t have mattered” - an interesting quote because it shows a stubborn resistance to going home once at Roskilde Festival, and that the only reason it is being considered as an option is because of rainy weather and wet clothes. Much like Jonas, the mind is set on “living in the moment” (49) and perhaps as Mari quotes being “more attentive to other people and cozy and nice - and more large” (45).

Collective behavior tendencies Mari, Vildana and Rune all discuss the feeling of freedom and being carefree that comes with being at the festival.

“You don’t really think about the things you usually think about. That you have to pay bills or buy food, all these things you don’t think about while you’re at a festival. You are much more carefree.” (58)

The quote reflects the personal mindset change discussed earlier, applying it to a grander scheme. No one at the festival thinks about the outside space. The only reality that is relevant is the immediate surroundings, and responsibilities associated with daily life are effectively put on hold or ignored till further notice such as Vildana’s “the future doesn’t matter, so in a way there is no one who judges you, it can’t have any consequences for you unless you do something that’s illegal then there isn’t anything that can have consequences for you at Roskilde” (64) attitude towards behavioral patterns and the lack of consequences thereof.

Vildana is also centered on specific freedoms at the festival. “Its free. It’s easier to be at Roskilde. The euphoria of feeling that you can do exactly what you want, when you want, of course inside the law. It’s the freedom there is, you can do exactly what you want when you want, there is nobody judging you thinking it’s weird the first thing you get in the morning is an Irish Coffee” (63), citing drinking alcohol outside normative hours as an example of the freedom and carelessness in behavior at the

41 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen festival, and Jonas who claims “I’ve seen certain people act in a different way than I would have seen them in Copenhagen” (75).

Rune, lastly, takes on a more pessimistic style of freedom in “maybe it’s a place where you can make some new rules for yourself, both personally and socially, and that can give a lovely little feeling of freedom” (62), realizing the social construct that the feeling of freedom is for him, and acknowledges that purposeful behavioral changes result in this “lovely little feeling of freedom” which Mari and Vildana seem to accept without criticism.

Further developing on the data indicating that the outside world does not matter, the topic of Roskilde Festival as a self-standing space. “There are less rules and everybody let go of their inhibitions, it’s a little like Christiania, its own society” (82) quotes Volunteer 1, making the conscious connection to the Freetown Christiania, notoriously known as a world within the world. Christiania is known for being a self- governed space in which there are rules that apply to only that area, and indeed also rules in normal society (Copenhagen) that are not as severe inside, such as soft drugs, drinking outside normally accepted times, and alternative forms of living and governance4. More references are made to the independent nature of the festival space, including the collective’s rules and norms - and the consequences of crossing these. “There is a boundary and immediately when you cross the line the group will say it” (61) is interesting in that the choice of words is “the group” instead of a traditional regulative authority such as police. Unwritten rules are shared in a group mentality, such as Mari describing why the audience takes care of one another. “It demands that everyone come with the same mindset and attitude towards it. I feel that you raise each other, and those who have been on the festival teach the ones who have not been there many times how to behave” (59) claiming that there is some level of knowledge sharing between members of the space, and also points out the fragility of the creation of the collective mindset in that the succession depends on all members entering the same state of mind. Mari refers to “the group” as the all-seeing collective keeping an eye on one another, as when crossing the drinking line - “half a step too far”, people will show up immediately and check up on the person. “I feel that you see that a lot immediately that people are like no that was a little too much” (60) thereby becoming the regulative authority within that space in regards to drinking, but also in Rasmus’ example of the collective eye “an example is when someone falls, ten people will come and you just fly up. You don’t just let him lie, you stop each other – get him up” (84) pointing towards the overall awareness of others together with Vildana’s poignant “you take care of each other and you are in it together” (66) comment on collective behavior.

4 http://www.visitdenmark.com/christiania

42 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The inclusive mindset and collective eye also permeates the smaller gestures in daily activities at the festival such as Canada’s examples: “say you are standing there with a cigarette before it's lit. Someone else comes with a lighter before you have to think that you have to light it” (70) and “you are sitting in a chair and there is a nice ice cold beer out of reach and you are about to reach for it and then someone else gives you the beer” (70), which serves to show the mindfulness and helpful nature of the collective eye as well as the regulatory arm.

An example of alternative norms is connected to drinking habits and the laissez faire approach to it. Vildana’s attitude towards drinking becomes apparent in her “what happens at Roskilde is just… Roskilde” quote: “There aren’t any of your friends who come over later and say “listen that was too much”... to throw up four times in a day, then you do that and just continue” (65), and mirrors Volunteer 1 in the categorization of Roskilde Festival as “being on a mini-vacation. A hard drinking mini-vacation” (81). Maris comment on the collective mind shows up in Volunteer 1’s notion as well that “everyone shows up with the same mind-set, everyone wants the same. They want to drink, they want to go to concerts” (83), citing two main reasons for existence of the homogeneous group at Roskilde Festival - drinking and concerts.

Further evidence of an altercation of norms in the outside world is brought forth through the comments on hygiene and approach to dressing. Vildana cites as a part of the struggle of coming home after the festival that “you just want to go back to the freedom where you have no responsibilities. You don’t even have to shower. That is a pretty big thing in our society that you are clean. It doesn’t matter. You brush your teeth for you, because they start feeling like frotté. But it’s not something you need to do, you don’t have to” (67). Sally claims that opposed to other festivals, the audience at Roskilde is all about comfort, not caring “at all” about looks (73), saying that “people are more chilled out. First of all they are not so much concerned how they look like. In the center in Copenhagen you have more, definitely all in black and just very nonchalant but at the same time very elegant. Most of them (at Roskilde Festival) are very drunk. I think they are more at ease” (74), describing a change in collective mindset regarding dress codes at Roskilde Festival and dress code in the center of Copenhagen. Absalon 3, on the other hand, claims that “people are dressed up as soon as they get down here” (71). The juxtaposition of the two claims could be based on the respondents’ perspective on dressing, and what constitutes being “dressed up”. Sally further points out that “you don’t really have to be anything and you don’t really feel that anybody’s judging you, you can just walk in a giraffe costume you know and everybody is like sort of welcome” (76), building upon Vildana’s earlier comment on the freedom to do what you want, when you want, whether that be drinking alcohol in the morning or wearing clothes not traditionally worn in society, although Absalon 3

43 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen points out that in the past “there was more nudity” and that “we have become more modest” (72) in unofficial dress code.

A behavioral tendency commented on is the sense of openness that permeates the space.

“People are more easy minded (at Roskilde Festival), everything becomes a little easier and more fun, you become better friends and get closer. Of course this could have something to do with that you never get sober and never really sleep so much, but you become more open – also to strangers. Especially our group, I don’t think we are all that open, not that we are completely closed off but we’re not as prone to just meeting someone and saying “well now we just party with you”, there I can feel that people think that now we’re here. It isn’t just us that is a group, everybody at Roskilde are in the same boat”(85)

In this quote, Vildana touches upon various elements of the Roskilde Festival experience. The concept of excessive drinking and lack of sleep could perhaps be linked with the general “easy minded” openness of people. The theory that at Roskilde everyone is together in a more connected way than in normal society, makes the individual more prone to opening up to a stranger - because the stranger is not completely strange, but still part of the group experiencing the space. Canada makes a parallel to Copenhagen and having to “make the first move to talk to someone” (69), but that at the festival “everyone’s more open and...would come up to you just as much as you would come up to them” (69), again pointing out the willingness to explore strangers in the safety of the festival space.

Marlene and Mie both point towards the festival as a space for collective escape from daily life.

“I think definitely… a lot of people will come to festivals like this to escape for a week. I know a lot of people who look forward to this festival all year round, so that they can really let themselves be free and relax with they friends… I find that I’m not necessarily looking at it as an escape, but I love the collective aspect of festivals, and I think that it’s really valuable for people to have time away from their regular routine lives and come together and celebrate music” (78).

In this quote, Marlene explains that groups of people travel to festivals like Roskilde in order to remove themselves from routine lives, coming together and celebrating music. The idea of the festival as a collective unit again surfaces, this time serving as a barrier from regular society and life, and as something to look forward to escape. Mie quotes the escape from technology in daily life as a positive thing at the festival: “I think it’s really healthy for many to get away and get away from having so much focus on computer and phone and all those kinds of things. I think it’s very healthy

44 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen that down here you are more with people and have less focus on social media than at home” (80), with Marlene concluding “that people have permission to be who they wanna be” (79) in the space that is Roskilde Festival.

Post-Roskilde mind-set The experience of being in the festival space seems to have an influence on the collective mindset after coming home. Vildana discusses the feeling right when you have come back from the experience. “I think that if you come home alone... it must be terrible. Just lying at home knowing there’s a whole year left, you miss everything, you’re just tired and happy to be home but miss everyone and everything. It must be hard to be alone when you get home, I don’t think anyone should be. You just want to go back to the freedom where you have no responsibilities” (90), a type of sadness commonly dubbed by media as “Roskilde blues”5. The exhilaration and immersion of the experience by the actor whilst there, then results in a feeling of loneliness once removed from the space and the collective.

Thomas says that the collective mindset is brought back to normal society from the festival space: “I think that what I experience, what I see at Roskilde when I come back from Roskilde is still there and especially in the months after. The lifestyle about the camp-life where people let themselves go and throw about they inhibitions is still very much present in the streets of Copenhagen in the summer months” (89) which also is in connection with Marlene’s observation of coming home with a different “state of mind” due to the temporary removal from regular routine (88).

Rune, however, claims that “I can understand that people feel (like in a bubble), and I can also be drawn to it, but I still walk around with a bundle of sense that I have to do something the week after or two weeks or three weeks, so I never quite get away” (91), proving that despite the vacation-like feeling of freedom, the daily activities and responsibilities in the future creates a type of mental barrier to completely escape and immerse in the festival mindset.

Concert behavior Being a music festival, there are also quotes on the immersion of the concert experience and the individual as part of a whole. “I was really standing there and there was a moment when I closed my eyes and just listened to the music and I felt very much in my own bubble just enjoying the music,

5 http://politiken.dk/kultur/musik/roskildefestival/art6017750/Derfor-f%C3%B8ler-du-dig-ensom-og- forladt-efter-otte-dage-p%C3%A5-festival

45 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen and at the same time I knew everyone around me was at the same space” (96) reflects upon the audience experience and “the cool thing about Roskilde is that it is a loyal audience to the artists as well. I have never been to another festival or other concerts where the support and response for the artists on stage is so good. It can also be felt on the artist performing, and I think that’s great about Roskilde, for example The XX or Solange who is like wow thank you and are overwhelmed by the response and you’re like yes you’re a part of this and you are a part of creating this experience together because everyone gives so much of themselves” (94) reflects upon how this audience experience potentially has an influence on the artist’s view from the stage. Absalon 3’s comment on activities during a concert: “you get some good visuals… I hadn’t thought that when we were standing at the Mourning Area at Foo Fighters when all these girls had to pee, the way they were holding on to the trees when they were peeing. And still she manages to fall over and into the piss”, is interesting not only due to the comical nature of the anecdote, but also perhaps serves to show audience turnover in that the Mourning Area next to the Orange Stage, placed after the famous accident in 2000 where 9 people died due to unsafe conditions at a headliner concert6, has changed in the collective mind as serving as a reminder of a horrific accident and a place to mourn the dead, to being a convenient off-stage but close to the action place to take care of personal needs.

Life at the festival The final category in behavioral patterns revolves essentially around daily activities and life in the space. From Rasmus’ “I have arrived. – That’s what everyone talks about when you lie in the queue, when you fold out your chair and open your first beer and you’re like “all my things are here, now I’m here. I am going to be here for a week!” and there is nothing outside this” (100) explanation of the first memorable moments at the festival, to Jonas description of activities; “there’s just a lot of walking around and visiting the different spots that was not necessarily about music but they have other entertainment acts… Well that was not necessarily on the festival square, but like going to the camp-site just hanging out with people who are camping there... They make up their own games” (99), it seems that relatively mundane activities in daily life somehow gain some value in the space of the festival, while Vildana describes activities due to the weather: “because the weather was really bad we ended up in Art City where there were all kinds of talks, which I thought was really cool. I also saw the naked race for the first time this year. That is an experience. It is so absurd; it’s 30 people running around naked, and first they need to walk the round. It was so crazy. But I think I need to be better at discovering the things that happen around and say okay I would really like to have a pétanque tournament, it’s fun and you forget a bit how hungover you are and you can play a bit pétanque” (102).

6 http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nine-dead-at-pearl-jam-concert-20000817

46 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Mari attempts to explain the reason to “go to Roskilde because “it’s the whole vibe and you don’t want to sit in Copenhagen while everybody is at Roskilde and feel outside and abandoned.” It’s just everything encompassing it that makes you want to be there. It’s difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but it’s just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re there that you ARE there. I am a part of this” (101)

The sense of being in the right place at the right time perhaps helps us understand why so many prioritize the complete festival and value is as more than the concert days, but as an overall package of alternative way of living.

5.1.3 Social aspects

Belonging to a camp A strong tendency in the data is the importance of going to the festival with people you know. E.g. Lukas states that it is a tradition to go with all of his friends and that he would never go alone (115). Making a camp with you friends is often a crucial aspect in being there as a group. Mari states that she would not go to the festival alone, referring to a guy she met who did that. For her the camp is a crucial factor, since it is a home base where she knows all the people. Sharing the experience with her close friends is actually the most important part of her festival: “that is (visiting other camps, red.) not in actuality the most important for me. I don’t really care about others” (108). Taking it further Mari states that her tent and camp becomes a temporary home for her. Going back and forth from work, she feels like a stranger when visiting Copenhagen during the week. Suddenly she is a visitor in her own city, since the festival is her temporary home (113). Vildana also talks about the value of having a camp. This is where she can always find someone and this is where you can relax (114). She also discusses how camps are different and people are at the festival in different ways according to the camp they belong to, referring to a younger friend whose camp is “all in”. She believes that this is a good way for each group to visit the festival on their own premises (110). An interesting aspect in her discussion is how the group in a friend’s camp all are changed into the same Roskilde people no matter their roles outside the festival:

“Its funny that there is one who works for Mærsk, Line works for Danske Bank, there’s an accountant and a lawyer, but at Roskilde nobody has had a shower for four days and everyone wears rubber boots.” (112)

47 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

She explains that this camp has existed for many years and has many traditions. Despite the people being very different in their normal life the camp bind them together once a year (112).

For the participants mentioned above, joining the festival as a group, sharing the experience with friend you know before is an important part of the experience. For these respondents camping together appears to be a crucial base you built with your friends, creating a sense of home at the festival space.

Belonging to the overall Roskilde Festival Community Beyond just being part of your own social circle the data also discovers a tendency of a feeling of belonging to a bigger social circle or community of Roskilde Festival. Lukas is a repeat visitor who explicitly says he has an affiliation with the festival. Calling it “a home outside home” he expresses how he knows the place so well, and how he is excited to return and observe new changes (119). Absalon 1 explains how working at the festival makes him feel a deeper part of it, and a sense of contribution and responsibility to the whole festival:

“We are proud of this (Roskilde, red.). Having worked here many years and being able to keep this train running. You feel more responsible for the festival in some way. You want to be a good ambassador.” (120)

Volunteer 2 explains the same sense of being part of it, once you work there, “I have never tried not working, I feel you contribute with something, then you are a part of it”, while volunteer1 believe that it only requires entering the space to be part of the community:

“As long as you are here, you are a part of it. Also those who just buy tickets and are here all days” (Volunteer 1, 123)

Jonas also asserts that entering the space is all you need to do, to be part of “it”: “I feel part of it, cause you don't have to act out. You just have to be here!” (Jonas, 121)

Mari uses the same terminology of being “part of this”, and explains how she feels abandoned and outside if she is not at Roskilde Festival. She expresses a clear fear of missing out by not attending. It is not so much what you do there, but it seems very important to just be there:

“It’s difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but it’s just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re there that you ARE there. I am a part of this”

48 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The common pattern to be discovered here is how multiple respondents refer to being at the festival space as “being part of it”, as opposed to just visiting the space. The degrees vary, where some point out the sense of contribution and representing the festival, and others feel part of it by physically just being there. Using the terminology of “being part of this,” suggests a greater community feel and a sense of belonging to the large social circle of all participants and creators than just a mere trip with friends to watch some music.

Unwritten rules and freedoms In line with the idea that some kind of larger social community exist, similar pattern related to this emerges. “Being part of” the festival seems to also include some unwritten social rules that everyone follows. First of all this includes more freedoms, pushing some of the conventional social and legal limits that exist outside the festival. Certain behavior is more acceptable within the festival space, such as lack of cleanliness. Vildana contrast this with cleanliness outside the festival space:

“You don’t even have to shower. That is a pretty big thing in our society that you are clean. It doesn’t matter. You brush your teeth for you, because they start feeling like frotté. But it’s not something you need to do, you don’t have to.” (135)

Here the limit of what is socially acceptable is pushed, which is also evident in the examples presented earlier about the lack of judgment from others when drinking Irish Coffee and beer in the morning (20 and 21).

Another socially accepted thing is that of stealing each other’s festival chairs. As expressed by Mari: “You have to learn the unwritten Roskilde rules, such as “a chair that has been left, that is everyone’s chair”” (130). Another example of stealing is from Rasmus, who explains how someone started rummaging through his tent, while him and his friends were standing right in front of it:

“I’m just standing there talking, people have already started going stealing and then suddenly someone has started rummaging in our tent and were just standing there “hello, we’re right here? Can’t you wait with going through our tent until we’ve left?” (134)

The comment on this event is interesting, since it is almost taken for granted that someone will try to steal, but that they could at least have the courtesy to not do it in front of him.

49 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

On a more general level Rune expresses the feeling of freedom as well: “Maybe it’s a place where you can make some new rules for yourself, both personally and socially, and that can give a lovely little feeling of freedom” (136).

While the community of Roskilde Festival socially accepts certain behaviors it is also asserted how people collectively police and set the boundaries. Mari starts this point by saying that “there is a boundary and immediately when you cross the line, the group will say it.” (132). She goes on to explain how there are unwritten rules that everybody place upon themselves, and if you take your behavior too far you will in a way understand on the social dynamic, that this is not okay (129). She explains how one has totally misunderstood the freedoms allowed by the community using the example of rape at the festival:

“You almost feel, this is really bad to say, but that it is even worse raping someone at Roskilde Festival than it would have been in Copenhagen because then you haven’t understood what we are doing, you haven’t understood why you are here. You break it all. You are an outsider. It is so horrific. It is more brutal in some way. I have never seen violence at Roskilde. I have never experience something violent or threatening even though I have been beaten around in a mosh pit at Vince Staples (in 2016, red.)” (131).

Here it is as if the freedom comes with a responsibility that all the included members should understand, and failing to follow these social rules seems even worse than the fact of breaking the law. Then you are an “outsider” who is not accepted in the community. Mari uses another less extreme example on this point about how a girl peeing in the middle of a concert crowd took it too far. This results in a “shame circle” forming around her with the judgment of the crowd (138). Finally she explains how elders pass on these behavioral rules at concerts to the younger generations of festivalgoers (133). In general she believes that these unwritten rules are created through the history of the festival: “I don’t know how Roskilde does it, but perhaps because it is an old festival with traditions that are passed on to future generations. It is the festival goers themselves who pass on the traditions to each other.” (137).

Some general unwritten rules appear within the community of festival goers according to the data collection. The general tendency is that more freedom exists in terms of how one can behave as the example of personal hygiene and stealing. However, if you cross the invisible line the other people in the community will act as the collective police and let you know.

50 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.1.4 Barriers to entry

Monetary barriers Upon entering Roskilde Festival there is a ticket barrier - either the audience purchases a ticket (approx. 2000DKK) or it is possible to receive a ticket in exchange for volunteering a minimum of 32 hours of labor before, during or after the event. It can be argued then, that a monetary expense is a barrier to entry to the festival space. Absalon 2 reminisces about earlier, cheaper days: “yes (was there in 93’). It cost 510 I remember. It was crazy that it rose with 100kr in a year” (148) and Rune argues that “a ticket for 2000kr is so completely insane, it is just so expensive. Maybe I could consider using that money to go and travel” (145), whilst Lukas takes a head-on approach to the monetary barrier: “I don’t save up (for Roskilde), I use my vacation money. Burn them when they come” (150). However, the barrier to entry can also be a considerable priority with Lukas’ reasoning of “you can’t always afford to go all the places you want to go.” It is a priority to go to Roskilde” (149) and Jonas’ justification of cost and value: “If you would have been back in Copenhagen and planning a concert and paying 300kr just to go for that one night, it’s been the same level of entertainment, that you just go from concert to concert” (151) whose perspective is that of the abundance of musical experiences that in a normal concert setting would price higher for the single night.

Rune, being the only artist interviewed in the data collection process, has a unique take on the monetary barrier.

“First time I play (at Roskilde) was in 2008, and in some way once you’ve played there it can be really difficult to spend money on something that feels like a relation to work, so I have only been when I have gotten a ticket or performed” (143)

The connectedness between the festival and work, makes it less of a vacation experience as he claims that “it becomes very connected to work in my head” (144) and that “I always get to go to a festival because I have to play so often, so it’s a need that usually is covered” (146) serves to show that it is not a prioritized experience, and even that Roskilde Festival, for this artist in particular, perhaps is not unique because it fundamentally is a place of work and performance - like so many other concert venues.

Preparation barriers: Another barrier to entry for the festival is that is it an event which demands some level of preparation. During the days in which Roskilde Festival takes place, approximately 80.000 people camp in the campsites surrounding the concert area, which starts out being empty fields, and within hours, evolves into a fully-fledged “city”. The camp areas open on the Saturday before the festival is scheduled to take

51 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen please, and a stampede of guests sprint into the area to pitch their tent and create their camps – their home for the next week.

Rasmus explains the importance of the wait to enter the camping area - lying in queue:

“We were straight in L, which we will never do again. L was crazy popular so by East we were three who came in Friday morning and were there. Two days in the queue, what won’t you do for that. Just to have a place to lie, and I was never in that camp. If there are many together in the camp in the queue, then it’s fun, but if it’s only to people and you have to get a place for thirteen, then it’s just a pulse of 180 because you are so stressed over guarding such a big area” (157).

Rasmus, Lukas and Mari mention the process of planning the camp. From Lukas’ “the day before (Roskilde Festival opens), we spend on planning the camp” (155) last-minute preparations, to Rasmus: “Spending a lot of time planning: “with a sound system to buy and arranging who should spend money on what and buy pavilions and transfer money to people. Many practical things to plan it, and who should lie in the queue and which area to lie in” (156) and finally to Mari; “I wasn’t really involved in the planning, but we have done it before and are a part of a pretty routine group, and then its done pretty quickly. I think the first year we went there was much more planning and more back and forth about who should be in the camp etc.” (158), it becomes evident that planning takes up both time and mental capacity to prepare for such an event. For none of the respondents has there been any mention of the omission of planning - the data points toward a necessity to structure the experience beforehand when discussing practicalities.

Internal physical barriers The interview respondents have also discussed physical barriers of the festival. Absalon 1 says about the both physical and creative openness: “In a way it reaches further. Which is good. It is the largest festival so it has to be the broadest. I don’t see how something can be too broad” (165), referring to the scope of the festival as a positive force. The size of the festival creates a broad scope with far-reaching capabilities.

Vildana discusses the implications of physical boundaries on the individual’s body:

“For me the whole camp life is more fun than the actual concerts, and to be honest, I think it’s great to listen to good music and it’s nice, but for me concerts can be overwhelming because I’m so small and because you get squashed and pressured from all sides, so I actually think that everything in between is so much better. Of course it’s great when you get to a concert and sit on someone’s shoulders because then you can see something and experience it all, but it’s not great to be carried out

52 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen of the pit because you get to a place where you are scared and think “this is when I die.” But that only has something to do with my height” (164).

It is an interesting point to make that despite being at a musical event such as Roskilde Festival, the consideration for personal safety is to such extent that what effectively makes the music a secondary priority. The camp life is presumably more giving than concerts due to the fact that it does not feel like a near-death experience for the festivalgoer.

For work purposes, the closed off physical spaces such as backstage, is an effective barrier to entry as it allows only people with a purpose to enter and in effect creates a business and networking friendly artist area. Rune points out the effectiveness of physical boundaries in the description of artist networking:

“Because there are so many people together in one place, it is as if the artists keep together, that’s why it’s a easier place for me to network” - and - “there are more people (at Roskilde) you can talk to, they are all in the same place. Apart from that they are more open because there is a artist community which is pretty cool and also pretty lame, but makes it easier for people to talk.”

Physical boundaries and closing off certain areas to certain types of attendees, seems to have implications that spread beyond the duration of the festival. As an artist, Rune increases his networking due to the openness of people in a closed space.

Cost of living standard The barriers to entry do not only encompass monetary, preparation processes and physical space - another hurdle to cross to enjoy the festival experience is arguably the change of living standards. Days are not the same in that it takes time to do daily activities (e.g. eating breakfast/brushing teeth) as it is not situated in the home (169), and must be accepted as a fact of life, such as Vildana acknowledges “yes, there’s a line to the toilets and people pee everywhere, but that’s how it is” (168), hygiene standards as something that are different from normal societal standards.

Axel goes against the notion of Roskilde Festival as a utopia due to the difficulty of meeting basic needs:

“Roskilde is not utopian in itself because there are so many things that are not great. Like waking up in the tent and you haven’t slept. You haven’t slept very well and you have to get up and take a dump. You have to get these things done, these basic needs covered and then you can begin to have a good time. Then there’s the whole start-up

53 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen period to start the day that isn’t very utopian. So maybe its stages where you enter and forget time and space.” (170)

The discussion between Absalon 1 and Absalon 3 serves to show the development in audiences over time regarding living standards.

Absalon 1: “I have been here many years. It becomes less magical every year. Probably because I’m getting older, probably because the festival gets older but attracts younger. I think that at some point I will be skipped, thrown overboard or whatever its called.” (171)

Absalon 3: “I feel you get a bit away from the magic of the morning because you don’t.. You wake up at home. This year we’re sleeping at home, it’s also the first time. Then you don’t sit and drink beer from the morning and try to pick up the pieces from yesterday” (172)

Absalon 1: “It makes less sense the older you get. Sitting down there and drinking apple wine from the morning.” (173)

From the discussion we can see that over time it becomes less “magical” in both the camping aspect and the drinking norms that follow it. It seems a logical evolution that with age comes comfort.

Proximity to the outer world The final category in the theme of various barriers to entry deals with the proximity of Roskilde Festival to the “outside world” and the consequences thereof. Roskilde Festival is situated approximately two kilometers from the city of Roskilde, and a short 20-min train ride from the Danish capital Copenhagen. Vildana talks positively about the proximity to her home: “Roskilde is easy because it’s so close and you shouldn’t underestimate that. It sucks to go home Saturday but it’s also easy.” (176)

When Mari discusses going back and forth from the festival, she mentions “just passing through to pick up some things before going home to Roskilde” (178) in a nonchalant fashion which makes the observer believe that the physical placement of the festival is in fact not a barrier to entry, but the opposite. Proximity to society makes it comfortable to enter and re-enter the space as needed, such as Volunteer 1’s contemplation: “I have considered (going home) today… but it’s just to go home to a real bed and take a bath.” (177)

54 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Although the festival space demands preparation both in logistics and consideration of expenses beforehand, if the living standard and basic needs are not met as desired, it is merely a quick journey back to civilization.

5.1.5 Exploration

The surprise aspect With more than 150 concerts spread out on four main-days, and 20 concerts in the previous four (warm-up) days, there is an abundance of choice and variety in the music programming.

Compared to other national festivals, Roskilde has a reputation for booking in many different genres and nationalities of bands. Vildana comments that “the cool thing about Roskilde is that you become exposed to so much different music” (186) and when discussing exploring the music program beforehand Mari explains:

“other years I have been more prepared than I have this year, spent time going through the program a seeing who would play. It is an important part of it, but not the most important. I feel that always in some way or another, like this year where there was a program you maybe didn’t know that well, you had a trust in Roskilde that even though I don’t know it, it probably is a really good act. You trust those who do the booking and trust the piece of work they do, that there will be some great concerts and then rather have that mindset and listen to something. But for me it definitely becomes real when you get the program in hand” (188).

It is possible that trust in the music booking team behind the Roskilde Festival programming makes audiences more open to exploring concerts and experiences unknown to them beforehand. Absalon 3 quotes this excitement in; “I think Roskilde is best when you haven’t planned what was supposed to happen and you bump into something and you are in the now in a way you hadn’t predicted” (187) along with Mari’s; “The best thing about Roskilde is when you just walk around and are like “what’s going on here?” Like when we were at the morning party and just came in and are like oh okay I’ll join and people are like join! That is exactly all the things that make it so great” (184).

For both audience members, the element of surprise makes the experience stand out stronger and has seemingly made the bigger impression than the expected. Here stated by Mari:

55 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“My best concert experiences, except for a few, has been bands you didn’t know so well, that you were dragged along to. Or to be able to drag someone along, for example last year at Kakkmaddafakka which was really fun and a concert I wanted to see, but also to be able to bring someone and they’re also like” wow, this is amazing” and you’re like “yes! I told you so! It’s really nice!” and be able to share the music and “you have to what this. You have to see this concert” it’s almost one of the best things about Roskilde, either to be able to come to a concert you don’t know or be allowed to bring someone and show them – and that they also think it’s great. Those hyped concerts you have been looking forward to for a long time, it’s really great but you’ve anticipated it for so long. It’s more when you get the “wow okay I didn’t expect this” – that is the very best when you’re at a festival” (185)

Follow the known (lack of exploration) Although several audience members reveal the satisfactions of novel experiences, there are also those who took advantage of knowledge beforehand or are seemingly disinterested in exploring new music. Stated by Lukas:

“I am sadly not so explorative and curious, because I’m lazy and high” (200)

“What should I see? I don’t know, I look at the program and see what I want to see. I don’t spend so much time on it, I just look it through. I don’t listen to any bands I don’t know, maybe I should.” (203)

The above quotes serve as a reminder that we have a diverse audience pool in the research data collection, through this it comes to light that there are different ways to tackle the music days. Some prefer to try new things, some prefer to enjoy the comfort of the known. Vildana quotes a middle-ground between the two: “I listen a lot to a Spotify playlist, if there is a number or two I like I consider going to the concert. But I’m not locked in, if you say you want to go to something, I’ll try and go listen to it” (199) serving as the in-between audience member who uses knowledge as a determinant of choice, but refuses to only consider the option of the known, thereby also opening up to novel experiences.

More than music Roskilde Festival is not just a music festival - it spends much time and effort dedicated to arts and events such as graffiti workshops, performance art installations, yoga classes and talks and discussion panels on various social phenomena.

56 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The exploration of activities beyond the traditional music festival experience was also touched upon. Vildana discusses here how weather had a explorative impact on her day:

“Because the weather was really bad we ended up in Art City where there were all kinds of talks, which I thought was really cool. I also saw the naked race for the first time this year. That is an experience. It is so absurd, it’s 30 people running around naked, and first they need to walk the round. It was so crazy. But I think I need to be better at discovering the things that happen around and say okay I would really like to have a petanque tournament, it’s fun and you forget a bit how hungover you are and you can play a bit petanque” (194).

“This year at Roskilde I discovered how much there is apart from the music and how much there is around. Bo and I were at Stage Dining and it was a genius concept and I think I have to dig that much more, what happens all around” (193).

If Vildana is an acceptable example of the standard audience member, it is interesting how she has not earlier discovered or had researched what possibilities for entertainment lay outside the traditional concert format. The Naked Race at Roskilde Festival is a decades old tradition, where the winner wins a festival ticket for the following year. Positively one could argue that there are alternatives to standing outside in the rain, and in seeking shelter, audiences could also stumble upon a side of the space which they had not considered earlier, such as Sally:

“I saw...a small theatre performance when I was walking by, I was just checking out what’s going on and there were 5 guys sitting and there were just doing like a gig. I didn’t stay for too long, but some cultural stuff’s going on too” (195)

57 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.1.6 The Island

During the data collection, Absalon 1 creates an analogy of Roskilde Festival as an island.

“In a way there are more offers. It is easier to do something, you can shop around, but that’s also how it should be. This is an island. It’s an island that disappears again when we leave. We’ve been here and even though we didn’t get the experience we thought we were going to have, I think we are able to convince ourselves that it was in some way better than it was. We need this vent” (209)

The concept of the transient island is an interesting theme as the analogy serves also as a reminder of the isolation the festival represents, both in the mental state which audience members go into (see section on Behavioral + Mindset Patterns) in which the outside world becomes irrelevant while in the space, but also the physical isolation due to the barriers surrounding the festival. Barriers ensuring that only those who have been granted access can indeed enter the space.

Thomas claims that “in a utopia everything forms a higher meaning. This can only work because you have a civilian situation behind you. So now we leave it all behind and go out and let it loose. It wouldn’t be something you wanted to do much longer than those four days.” (207) His notion of Roskilde as a utopia rests upon the temporal lifespan of the event, and that a longer period would perhaps be the element that would make the festival lose its “higher meaning”. Elaborating on this:

“I think no matter what you do and your attitude towards Roskilde you will come close to the core. You will never completely reach it, whether you do it the one way or another doesn’t matter, it’s about what makes sense for you in the situation” (208)

If to continue on with Absalon 1’s notion of the island, it is an interesting comment that Thomas makes regarding the core of the festival and its unreachable quality. The analogy of people being in an isolated space but somehow not being able to reach the center shows how complex the festival experience is, and how it is individually perceived.

58 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.1.7 Audience development

When interviewing primarily elder festivalgoers the data show some insights into how preferences and perceptions of the festival can change over time. In a focus group interview with three people at ages between 30 and 40 visiting in the music days and sleeping at home, it is discussed how the festival has changed in their perception. Discussing the concept of how magical it is to be at the festival space Absalon 3 noted: “I don’t think it was more magical ten years ago. I just think we were younger” (216). In a way it appears as if the special and unique element of the festival wears off over time as expressed by Absalon 1: “The fewer times you have experienced it the more magical it was earlier of course.” (217). A part of this was also the fact that they were not camping at the festival, as Absalon 3 states:

“I feel you get a bit away from the magic of the morning because you don’t.. You wake up at home. This year we’re sleeping at home, it’s also the first time. Then you don’t sit and drink beer from the morning and try to pick up the pieces from yesterday” (213)

In response to this Absalon 1 replies, “It makes less sense the older you get. Sitting down there and drinking apple wine from the morning.” (214).

In the conversation Absalon 1 acknowledges the fact that they are not supposed to indulge in the festival the same way as they used to: “I have been here many years. It becomes less magical every year. Probably because I’m getting older, probably because the festival gets older but attracts younger. I think that at some point I will be skipped, thrown overboard or whatever it’s called.” (222)

“We are meant to be swung off at some point. Then we start spending our money on insurances and other things and others still want to go out and spend their money here” (221)

It is apparent in these quotes that there is a natural audience development and that they now experience the festival in a different way than they used to. This does not mean that the experience is worse for these participants, but just that it is different. Interestingly this brings a variable into the discussion of how the festival space is unique or magical, since this also depends on how many times the participants have been there before. Thus the meaning of the festival space for the subject might also be transitory, in the way that it depends on the age and times of visits.

59 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.1.8 Evolution of festival

Having had its first year in 1972, Roskilde Festival has a lifespan longer than most modern festivals. Common sense and basic knowledge of business strategy leads to presume that there have been made modifications to the original concept, and the evolution of the space seems inevitable. As stated by Absalon 1:

“It has definitely evolved into the better. In many ways, there are more order in things and you have the possibility to lie in a quiet camp. Some people it attracts being comfortable, some is attracted to doing something else, and there are possibilities” (228)

Absalon 1 also touches upon the evolution of especially the camping areas, which has grown to accommodate various types of camping with more or less comfort and planning required. In 2017, Roskilde Festival presented 12 different camp-forms, from regular camp grounds to caravan camping, silent and clean areas, tents already pitched upon arrival and living in Dream City, the audience based community founded upon sustainable and socially responsible dreams and core values like citizenship, innovation, co- creation and diversity7. Absalon 2 also reminisces on the development of the camp grounds, claiming that “there was a bit more survival in it (the festival) in some way” (230) in previous years.

Thomas touches upon the focus of the festival as a major change in direction:

“(Roskilde’s) focus has moved from being more music-oriented to being more focused on the camp-life. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but a little episode today underlines my perception of it - that my youngest niece of 17, her camp packed together and went home. They had had enough. For them it wasn’t about the music, it was about the camp. In that way I think something that happened, that it’s more about being out there for many people. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the way it’s changed.” (232)

This quote touches upon earlier discussed themes such as collective behavior tendencies and the camp as a home as points of consideration that perhaps have evolved from being more about the music to being more about the general way of life.

Lastly, the music trends have changed over time, which is seen in the quote by Absalon 3:

7 http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/guide/camping

60 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“The music has become different. There is a lot of pop on Orange. The whole goth segment which was a lot earlier is also gone. It’s hard to get a ride with a heavy- rocker” (229) perhaps vocalizing an overall music trend reflected in the music programmers booking choices. Also stated by Absalon 3:

“They (the music bookers) play their music like in some way they tried to meet us back then” (231)

This also points out the business aspect of the festival, trying to meet the audience with content that will be satisfactory for the festivalgoers of today.

5.1.9 Value of the festival

A theme touched upon by many of the interviewed audience members is the value of Roskilde Festival. For Jonas, it is a dream come true to be at the festival dreamt of for so long: “I’ve always wanted to be here. I think I was 15 when I first heard about the festival, when I was in high school, and I’ve always wanted to come here” (237)

Mie states: “I’m here because it’s cozy and it’s nice to have a camp with all your friends and you can have fun for many days and apart from that see a lot of music” (240), touching upon earlier discussed values such as spending time with friends and experiencing concerts.

Mari touches upon the feeling of missing out in her description of why it is important for her to go to Roskilde Festival specifically.

“(Go to Roskilde because, red.) it’s the whole vibe and you don’t want to sit in Copenhagen while everybody is at Roskilde and feel outside and abandoned. It’s just everything encompassing it that makes you want to be there. It’s difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but it’s just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re there that you ARE there. I am a part of this” (244)

She further elaborates:

“You don’t want to be the inconsequential (nobody) person so you would rather be there. You don’t care at all about all the people who are not at Roskilde. It’s the whole package that is just different. You can’t put it in words, but I didn’t have the same feeling when I was at Northside that I was at a festival. I don’t think there are

61 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen any other festivals in the world, when you’re at Roskilde you’re just on a festival... like really.” (245)

The two above quotes can be seen as an indicator that for some audience members, the fear of missing out on experiences which peers will be having, is seen as a negative value, and that attending the festival is not so much a value in itself, but an event to experience in order to avoid being “inconsequential”.

Absalon 1 touches upon some indefinable intangible value which must be obtained while at Roskilde Festival.

“You go down here to get something. You get something here and if you haven’t gotten it then you’ve been bad at being at a festival. Then it is your own fault. Good experiences. And they are put up so that we can amass all the time when we just have our wristbands. That’s cool. So in a way there is more choice on the shelves.” (236)

It can be theorized that the wristband used to gain access to the space is a key to opening up a plethora of experiences. Once equipped with such a key, it is the audience member's’ own responsibility to take advantage of the value of “good experiences” and amass them to such an extent that upon leaving the space, the member is satisfied with the value level.

Thomas also touches upon the concept of bringing something back from the festival.

“It (Roskilde) is an educational journey and people are reminded what they should focus on in life. They should of course focus on some other things also but here is something special you should try to bring home. And I feel that people do.” (242)

Marlene discusses that although she sees it as “just another experience to take advantage of and savor while it’s happening” (239) for herself, that “some people need the escape. They really come here and they’re trying to get away from something else” (238).

Axel places value on the festival in it being “cozy” and “a place with your friends”, “having a good time”. “It’s really about having a great as time as possible and how you can feel great and just enjoy as much as you can.” (250) He realizes that for him the event is all about complete enjoyment and having a pleasurable experience, such as “at a concert experience you can feel it, where everything works together and you get a feeling of losing time and space and that’s where you enter the utopian universe.” (250)

62 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

By comparing Roskilde with another Danish festival, Northside, Vildana points out which elements she places value in, expressing dissatisfaction with the day festival, calling it “amputated” and “a bit weird” (248).

“I was at Northside, and it sucked that you didn’t have a camp, that it was a day festival that opened at 13 and closed at 02. It sucked that between concerts you didn’t have a place to go” (246). “There was no point where you could just relax and enjoy that you were there. There wasn’t the same vibe as in Roskilde of “now we’re in this together”.” (246)

Based on the respondent interviews, it seems that Roskilde Festival enjoys positive value attribution by its audience. Thomas says that “it is very much the feeling that defines Roskilde Festival” (243), and concludes; “it’s the highlight of the summer in Denmark” (241), effectively cementing its position as a valuable space.

5.1.10 Audience description

When buying a ticket, Roskilde Festival has two options: partout wristbands for all music days including warm-up, and a one-day ticket for a single specific music day.

“Bo (respondent’s friend, red.) noticed that there were some on a day ticket and some were there all week, because you can see it on the clothes people wear, nobody thinks about how you look, its practical or what you woke up in. Then all the white sneakers show up... I even went home every day, but you know how it is and how it will look. I don’t want to wear my nice clothes down there, it gets fucking disgusting. I don’t even think I would wear white sneakers if the weather was good, there’s still pee everywhere. Some do it for fashion, but I imagine that there are some festivals that are more fashion than Roskilde is... but I don’t know. I think I’d like to experience some of the foreign festivals to see how it is.” (256)

Interestingly enough, Vildana in this quote pinpoints that there is a stark contrast to the guests who sleep at the festival and the guests who enter the space for just a single day - most noticeably to the visual eye the clothes people wear. In the quote, Vildana describe one-day ticketers as “the white sneakers”, presumably a comment on the one-day guests’ apparent lack of consideration to the “fucking disgusting” environment with “pee everywhere”, contemplating that a plausible reason for dressing differently is for fashion, contrasting the full-festival goers who wears what’s “practical or what you woke up in”.

The negative connotations present in Vildana’s quote are further underlined in Volunteer 2’s blatant “one day… whores” (254) comment and Volunteer 1’s remark:

63 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“one day ticketers… they came and were completely (makes snobby gesture). Walked with baby-wipes under their arm (laugh)” (255).

Based on the above reflections, a pattern of “us versus them” seems to surface. The audience members who have been living in the camp-areas for days when the doors open to the music area, seem to look down on the one-day ticketers with a sort of contempt, mocking their choice of clothes and hygiene standards - “baby-wipes under their arm”, as it is commonly known that the hygienic conditions inside the festival is of a much higher standard than in the camping grounds.

Sally does not touch upon the above-commented on divide between types of audience, but comments: “I feel that there are so many people here… I just feel like everybody’s Danish, so I just had the feeling like half the people is here. It’s like everybody came here” (253) which can be argued is an indicator of the physical size and scope of the festival.

5.1.11 Roskilde Festival’s reputation

Another theme in the data is related to how respondents trust the brand of Roskilde Festival. Volunteer 1 explains how she does not know exactly know how and to whom the festival donates its profits, but that she trusts the festival to do the right thing:

“Generally I think that Roskilde is quite good at doing the conscious things to help society, or maybe I just think that’s the image they have. You always know they are doing something that is good for others” (262)

In relation to the program, Mari explains how she trusts the program being of high quality without having investigated the particular program the respective year:

“It (checking the program, red.) is an important part of it, but not the most important. I feel that always in some way or another, like this year where there was a program you maybe didn’t know that well, you had a trust in Roskilde that even though I don’t know it, it probably is a really good act. You trust those who do the booking and trust the piece of work they do, that there will be some great concerts and then rather have that mindset and listen to something.” (261)

Both quotes show a trust in the brand in both delivering the expected experience and living up to its reputation as a non-profit charity organization.

64 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.1.12 Roskilde Festival as an escape

As in previous sections, many of the interview respondents touch upon festivals and in particular Roskilde Festival as a tool for escaping daily life. From Rune, who is unable to completely immerse himself in the escape due to a “bundle of sense”, which reminds him of future obligations (269) to Jonas who “didn’t think of anything else than just having fun” (274) whilst at the festival, various audience members attempt to seek a sense of breaking free from the mundane norms and rules of the ordinary life.

Marlene comments: “I think definitely… a lot of people will come to festivals like this to escape for a week. I know a lot of people who look forward to this festival all year round, so that they can really let themselves be free and relax with their friends” (271)

The compelling aspect of this statement is that the audience member presupposes a unspoken struggle with elements in the daily life which must be escaped. There is something in the ordinary which “a lot of people” search solace from by entering a space in which there are a different set of norms and rules in place, letting them “be free and relax”.

Rune further comments upon his own experience and that he “lived in a pretty wild camp that definitely tried to escape... for example with alcohol and no sleep and drugs” (273), which, without them saying directly, turns the attention to almost every respondent who references lack of sleep, drugs or alcohol as elements in the bonding experience which they feel Roskilde Festival is for them.

An escape typical of time, is the one referenced by Mie:

“I think it’s really healthy for many to get away and get away from having so much focus on computer and phone and all those kinds of things. I think it’s very healthy that down here you are more with people and have less focus on social media than at home” (272)

The allusion that technology is an overwhelming factor in daily life is pointed out by a sort of relief and idea of it being “healthy for many” to take a break from the technological aids, such as computers and phones. Mie seems to be positively focused on the physical contact of people at the festival compared to focus on social media when in the outside world.

65 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“I guess you always (think about time at home) because you have many things to do in regards to school and everything, here certainly in the warm-up period you don’t think so much about time, but in the music-days the only time you think about time is in relation to when you have to see some music. It’s a relaxation that you don’t have to think about time. That’s also what makes it nice, that you escape that.” (270)

Mie places a positive value on the, in this quote, freedom to escape thinking of time. The lack of daily schedules and only time-constraining factor being concert experiences, makes the festival experience “nice”.

5.1.13 Time-line of festival

In multiple interviews it becomes apparent that two different experiences are connected to the warm-up and the music days respectively. Vildana says:

“I had actually thought that the music days were enough for me, but I think that you can divide Roskilde into before the music and when the music is, because before the music its very easy and free and you can do what you want, when you want, you can dance a bit by one sound system, go back to your camp. Everyone is together and at the same time not. But when the music starts then comes a time aspect and stress factor into it because there are things you have to do and place you want to be and perhaps people you want to meet with.” (279)

Axel, who arrived only when the music started, expresses this difference as well:

“When you come here in the middle of the week maybe you can feel you haven’t experienced the warm-up days which are actually also a big part of the festival.” (280)

He goes on to express how he would have liked to experience at least one day of the warm-up this year, since this is an important part of the festival. Interestingly, despite an obvious split into two sections he believes that the real festival includes both sections.

Lukas on the other hand find the music days to be the most important but recognized how the warm-up is an important for many others: “They are not important for me, but it seems they are for many others.” (281). He continues by referring to other

66 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen friends who go “all-in” during the warm-up and have to go home during the music. He does not understand why it is important for people to do it that way, but asserts, “People have to do what they want to before they go out and listen to some music” (283).

Common in the terminology of the data, is the obvious reference to the “warm-up” and the “music days”, which signifies a distinctive difference. Interestingly the warm- up appears as a large part of the festival for some people. Perhaps this suggests that it is not necessarily the music that makes up the festival for some, but that the music is the means to gather a crowd that parties before it begins, and that part is an equally important (or even more) part of the whole experience.

5.2. PRESENTATION OF DATA: PARTICIPANT OBSERVATIONS

In order to add an extra dimension for the data collection amount in the research, the research does not only conduct on-site interviews, but also participant observations during the festival. Emma came to the festival the Sunday before the music started and Søren arrived on Wednesday, the first day of music. In order to collect observations from a large a sample of the space as possible, the two observers do not meet up during the festival, or discuss their experiences with one another before initiating the data coding process. The first cycle of data coding is divided up so that each observer coded the other’s field diaries to ensure minimal confirmation bias. The second cycle coding is done together in order to have a flow in the discussion of concepts and how each observer codes the other person’s experiences. Both these cycles of coding are conducted with the same coding method as the interviews, with initial quote discovery and assigned theme, followed by search for patterns resulting in meta-codes.

The first and second level coding can be seen in its full length in the appendix, the second data coding writings are presented in the following section, through the discovered meta-codes, where some have the same title as in the interview coding and others are new.

5.2.1 Audience description

Søren describes volunteers in his volunteers-only camping area as “elder (50-60) and seem to be from some local community club or something” (3), whilst the volunteers at his work place “are in our age range (20-30)” (4). Emma, on the other hand, describes her place of work in the following way:

67 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“My colleagues are all mature adults and are discussing normal office topics such as children, lunch and what they saw on TV. It is strange to be living and sleeping in the camping area and then walking ten minutes to get to a temporary office located in the festival area where everyone are well rested and just dropped off their kids at school.”(5)

Furthermore, Søren describes the setting at Copenhagen Central Station, home to one of the central ways to get to the festival with public transport: “There’s young people with back-packs and rubber boots all over Copenhagen main station.” (2)

5.2.2 New use of things and space

Søren comments on the utilization of spaces not normally used for that action, such as: “I notice the sign that says “Roskilde Dyrskue” and remember that this is also the grounds of a big famous farm fair of Denmark where, farmers show of their animals and tractors and something like that”(9) and “We put our tent up on what is normally the pitch for the football club” (8). These observations are interesting as they serve as a commentary to the fact that Roskilde Festival is in fact not located in a space outside space, but in a society in which the space has already utilized functions, that temporarily are embedded with new uses.

5.2.3 Description of working at Roskilde Festival

Noticeable in the observation of work in the festival space is how work is mixed with a leisure vibe. Describing the work as a volunteer in the food court Søren says: “There’s a mixture of “serious” work vibe, cause my friend who has the stand need to make money and cover his cost, but also an understanding that we are all at the festival, so all co-workers are semi-drunk and happy and all customers are real drunk and happy.” (12) The same seems to be apparent when Emma describes the vibe in the backstage area: “Many of my colleagues from my daily professional life and partners from other firms are there, and it has a distinct carefree but still professional work vibe, where everybody is drinking rosé wine from glasses and looking nice, but are still wearing muddy boots and with a (designer) rain jacket draped over their shoulders.” (13)

68 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

In addition Emma describes the area where the offices involved with the general organizing of the festival are located, as a bit more hectic: “The vibe is distinctly more survival (festival office area red.) as there are huge muddy areas and people running around from concert to concert to make sure they see everything they have to see.” (14)

Common here is the interesting mix of working at the festival, while still attending the festival as a guest combining both a more informal vibe and behavior with a serious responsible behavior given the work that has to be done. It seems that the work is of course respected, but that there is a general understanding that all of this is also happening with the aim of having fun and enjoying the time at the festival.

5.2.4 Mind-set difficulties

In relation to working the festival and mixing work and leisure Emma describes how the work does not allow her to fully immerse herself into the festival mindset: “I am frustrated and upset over the fact that my work is disturbing me at Roskilde as it feels as if I cannot completely immerse myself into the experience like my friends in my camp who are acting like there is no outside world.” (85). This stands in contrast to her friends: “I am jealous of them (her friends, red.) and the freedom they have to disregard everything outside.” (86)

5.2.5 Audience development

Having had visited the festival prior to the research, the researchers note a personal development. For example Søren describes how his hygienic needs have changed: “I want to take a shower, my friend doesn’t since we arrived yesterday. He says “it’s a bit too luxurious to take one already”. I don’t care cause I’m getting older and I know it.” (18). In line with this Søren shows great appreciation for the slightly better “volunteers only” shower facilities: “I observe how the whole football club and their locker-room shower facilities are perfect for the festival guest. This is only volunteer area so showers are free and warm...” (19) Emma also makes a comment, noticing the difference between repeat visitors and the first-timers: “We have gone the road before and it is easy to see who are newbies and who have done the “journey” before.” (20).

69 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.2.6 Observed difference of areas

While describing the way around the festival, both noted the distinct difference in areas within the festival space. Not all was connected with festivities, drinking and loud music, leaving room to take breaks in certain areas without leaving the overall festival space. As noted by Søren:

“The whole vibe in the volunteer camping is chill and silent and people are drinking morning coffee, small talking. There are small coffee stands and breakfast stands with no queues. All is easy and I like it.” (26).

Additionally Søren describes the volunteer camping area as his “safe zone”: “We cover the basics in our safe zone of the volunteer camping.” (23). In addition to the quotes from Emma above regarding the difference between the chill vibe of the backstage she notes:

“The atmosphere behind the stage is radically different from the surrounding camping areas, it is clean and quiet, there are couches and nicely dressed young people lounging around drinking coffee or cocktails.” (28)

Beyond a difference between the backstage area, volunteer area and the hectic official festival space Emma also notice a difference in the official camping area:

“Later in the day I go with a couple of friends to the East section of the camping area, which has a dramatically different vibe to it than the West section where I live. Generally East seems to have younger people, and the music is harder (techno/hardstyle). People are very drunk at around 6pm, we go to a stage called East where DJs are playing, and about 200 people are dancing.” (27).

The interesting element of these observations is how the festival space not only provides a place to indulge in concerts, party and drink, but also provides places with other varying atmospheres. Viewing the overall festival space as a small contemporary village, this supports how the festival has multiple spaces within the space serving audience with different preferences and basic needs.

70 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.2.7 Value of entering different areas

An interesting quote building on the fact that different areas exist is how the access to these backstage areas gives Emma a feeling of superiority when arriving back to her camp: “...we leave (the backstage area, red.) and return to our camp I suddenly feel a sense of superiority as the people surrounding do not have access to this oasis in the middle of the chaos.” (81).

This could suggest how the existence of restricted areas allows for a sense of hierarchy within the festival space.

5.2.8 Surprise aspect

The fact that the festival provides surprising experiences is apparent in the field notes. Søren explains how he enters a new area called Klub RÅ, which exist of some small closed connected sheds with different art exhibitions and performances. He explains the very intimate performance of two dancers in small room, which is a complete other world than outside (49). Emma is also surprised by this area, watching a concert there at another time:

“The concert was not announced and I feel like me and the others with me in this room are experiencing something very special. I will definitely not forget this moment, it’s way too random and intimate and surprising at the same time.” (50)

Additionally Søren talks about the overall range of things to do and see:

“There’s dance lesson being done by an instructor, and I remember thinking that there’s no limits to what kind of stuff taking place here.” (51)

5.2.9 Interpretation of experience

Experiences many offers and surprising acts the field notes also provide some reflections on some of these. In these reflections on certain experience within the festival it is noticeable how there are many different things taking place to the point where not all are understood or well received by the researcher. For example Søren finds the Klub Rå experience to be too much: “Me and my friends leave after 3 minutes since it was freaking us out. We walk out back into the light, and feel like we were just in another world.” (33)

71 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A large plastic jellyfish, situated in an outside area between stages leads the researcher to question its existence, independently of one another. Emma notes: “We stop at a huge jellyfish which lights up in the dark, and discuss why it’s there. We’re all sure there’s some political meaning but no one can quite figure out what.” (35), while Søren notes “It is a very random plastic monster, and a very little A4 sized sign to promote it. The thought is good, but I feel like a lot of people will never notice that it’s an environmental statement.” (34)

Along these lines, Søren also believes that an artist talk taking place in a Agora filled with people is not being well received by the audience: “I notice how it’s nice that they are doing these talks in between people, but also that the people sitting around the center of the agora tent in fatboys are hungover and don’t really care at all.” (37). Given the vast amount of different offers of different experiences the level of engagement and understanding appear to differ.

5.2.10 Deviant behavior

A quote standing alone caught the attention of the researchers in the casual way of perceiving drugs at the festival. As noted by Søren “We smoke a joint and when we meet them they are already super drunk.” In the context of the festival this sort of behavior is normalized to the point, where it is not even considered that it is illegal to bring marijuana. What could be considered deviant behavior outside the festival is completely normalized and taken for granted within the festival space.

5.2.11 Social expectations to camp

In two instances it is noticed how it requires some level of engagement and sacrifice to be part of a camp and the social circle within that camp. Visiting the camp of a friend Søren observes an interesting conversation by the camp-members, referring to a guy from their camp:

“My friends are talking bad about another guy from the camp who is also home. They comment on how he didn’t say anything or add with anything to the camp. Never bought a case of beer or anything. They say it is not cool, to not contribute to the camp both socially and financially.” (44)

72 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

While arriving at the festival Emma also has expectations of her friends to do a good job in getting them a decent camping spot (45). To a certain degree there are some expectations resting on each individual to contribute to the camp and the social circle. This might suggest a barrier of entry in terms of being fully accepted or part of a camp.

5.2.12 Daily life at Roskilde Festival

Part of the participant observation is simply concerned with examining what people were doing during the day at the festival. Many of the events and actions appear to be the same and are repeated day after day. Emma describes: “The routine started from yesterday is repeated, with drinking beers in the camp, listening to music and talking with friends.” (58) and “Once back in our camp I see that in the last couple of hours nothing has changed and my camp are still playing beer bowling and listening to music.” (59). A part of Søren’s routine is to enter the volunteer lounge and recharge for the coming parties: “We drink a lot of free coffee and play backgammon and read the Roskilde newspaper.” (57).

5.2.13 Festival temporality

In terms of the festival ending both noticed an ambiguity in leaving. Emma notes:

“It’s the last day of the festival, and I’m starting to feel a little panicked over the fact that tomorrow I have to go home and there’s a whole year till next time. I don’t quite feel like I’ve experienced enough and been around the whole area, what if there’s something I’m missing?” (62)

There is a fear of not having experienced everything to the fullest enhanced by the fact that this is ending now. In another quote Emma shows the ambiguous feelings of leaving:

“Sitting on the train is a weird feeling, on one hand you just want to go home and sleep forever, on the other you don’t want to leave and try to postpone leaving the grounds for as long as possible.” (63)

Søren notes the same need to squeeze the last experiences out of the festival, despite being tired: “It might be the best concerts, but in reality a lot of us wants to go home. I remember thinking, that there’s a whole year before being in this setting again, so I should stay for the night.” (64)

73 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A part of the uniqueness and special aspect of these experiences is that the festival stops, and will not commence for a whole year. The researchers experienced a need to fully immerse for the full time of the festival and not miss out on anything.

5.2.14 Monetary barriers to entry

Other parts of the observations reveal some of the sacrifices made to attend the festival. Here it is noticed how Søren pays 200 DKK extra for camping in a restricted volunteer-only area, showing different needs and a development in willingness towards extra expenses.

In addition the volunteer work is a way of paying the ticket in terms of labor hours rather than money. After finishing work Søren notes: “We have paid our dues now and have three days of festival for free from now on.” (68)

5.2.15 Aim of the festival

In parts of his notes Søren suggests what the aim is for him at the festival. In one sentence he reveals how the aim is to get destroyed, while talking to people who are leaving as he is arriving: “We laugh and talk about how we have just arrived and are fresh and ready to be destroyed like them.” (71) Additionally, Søren uses Maslow’s hierarchy of needs in order to describe their mental state of mind, and to reach a higher level. (72).

5.2.16 Patterns of behavior in groups

In a quote it is observed by Søren how people at the festival appeared to move in large patterns according to the concerts playing: “Later we are laughing at the people who are really fucked up and just want fries. I observer how there’s movement of people who are hungry following the end of each concerts. They move from taking the interesting food to only wanting fries.” (75).

74 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.2.17 In and out of the festival

Noted in the observations is the ease of leaving and returning to the festival space. Emma describes how she goes back and forth in one day: “It’s raining outside, so during the afternoon we decide to go back to Copenhagen for a couple of hours to get some warm and dry clothes and come back to see concerts later in the day.” (77)

Søren also observes how his friends leave and return to the camp: “They explain how a guy from the camp had to go home, cause he was really sick. Really sick, and they thought it was meningitis. They talk about him as a fallen soldier, who didn’t survive the battle.” (78)

5.3. PRESENTATION OF DATA: MUSIC BOOKERS INTERVIEWS

As explained in the methodology section earlier, three in-depth interviews with the music bookers of Roskilde Festival has been conducted in a very early stage of the whole research process. Despite the fact that these semi-structured interviews are not based on the current theoretical framework, the research still considers this early data to see if and how it could support the investigation at its current stage. Through doing the same three coding levels on the data as has been done on the participant interviews and the field observations, three meta-codes are uncovered, that add a level of detail to the case by including the voice of some of the producers rather than users. Some are new meta-codes, while others are named the same as previously discovered codes, covering the same theme. These are presented below.

5.3.1 The surprise aspect

All three of the interviews bookers at some point mention how Roskilde Festival deliberately aim for creating unique concerts that act as something surprising and new for the audience.

Peter says: “We know that a lot of people come to Roskilde Festival to listen to the weekend but in 5 years they remember Elza Soares and not the Weekend. We present them for something they didn’t know they liked” (7).

75 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Stefan explains how they want people to come to Roskilde Festival and experience the big names and feel part of the community, but that this is only part of it. The act of getting surprised by a band you did not know is also important: “But at the same time you can go somewhere and see some Korean throat-orchestra, that Peter has discovered on a travel to Korea or something. This is where you think, if they were playing in Copenhagen you would never go and see them, but because you are at Roskilde and you pass the Gloria stage and it’s 2 AM and you’ve had those 2 pints, then you think it’s the best thing in the whole world” (8).

He continues with another example: “It is the concept of going to Roskilde and get killed by some Iranian punk or something bloody. It is the best feeling in the whole world. And it is that feeling that we still make an effort to have (at the festival, red.)” (9)

Thomas discusses the same capability of Roskilde Festival to put together something new and “never seen before”, and uses the example of a symphony orchestra playing at the second largest stage, but placed in between the audience in different islands, stating, “this is a very special thing” (10).

The festival deliberately attempts to draw in specific artists and develop new concepts for shows to create an element of surprise. An interesting part of this is how Stefan asserts how people would not watch something in Copenhagen, but that it is the best experience on the festival. People are already at the festival where it is easier to grab the attention of the potential audience and make them engage, allowing the festival to open their eyes. As Peter expresses: “We present them for something they didn’t know they liked” (7).

An interesting element of the focus on presenting novel experiences is the travelling, research and logistical effort taken to bring in an act that is not ordinarily operating in the same industry network. Peter, booking the “world music”, discusses how difficult this can be: “They (artist from third world, red.) don’t think that long ahead and many overseas artists, this has been the case with Brazil and Colombian artists, they have had subsidies when sending 10 men from Brazil to Europe… when it comes to third world countries, also fourth world and other world, poorer world, they don’t have the same tempo. There an artist may know (only, red). a month in advance that they have a tour in Europe.” (12).

76 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

5.3.2 Roskilde as an influencer

Connected to this point of creating a surprise aspect, is the way all three bookers also believe Roskilde Festival as being influential for artists and the music scene going on outside after the festival. As a part of gathering these unconventional bands Peter asserts how this is an opportunity for these artists: “... it has actually happened that Roskilde Festival has become a very very important festival, for all this music and artists which goes under the concept “world music”, because we have a good audience, we have the right scenes, we have an amazing production … we are a window” (18).

Peter also expresses how bringing in this type of music places charity issues on the agenda by representing these different countries: “One of the important reasons that we do this (book world music, red.) is that we are a charity organization and if you want to save the Turks from themselves and their troubles you have to present their own music, metaphorically speaking right.” (19).

On a more local level Thomas also discusses Roskilde Festival as an important platform in creating the future artist and be sustainable within the industry so there are artists to book in the future. In this context he says: “…Roskilde festival have a huge responsibility in creating that platform (for the small artist, red.) and I think it is important to keep it that way” (16), and later uses an example: “And I think that it is a thing (booking more female artist) that we have taken up and we also let the media know. That it is actually something we have done this year. It is a big thing and it will definitely have an effect in 2-3 years. Then there will be much more of them (women)” (18)

Stefan also approaches the topic of how the festival creates value for the artists and creates a new demand in Denmark. He uses both the example of Father John Misty, who played at Roskilde in 2015 and how he became a hit in Denmark, doing multiple concerts in Copenhagen afterwards (15) as well as the example of Future Islands: “We can sense on the labels, that the fact that we book them can be a part of boosting the history of Future Islands, which means that they actually sell more records in Denmark” (21).

Besides being a part of creating trends the festival also relates to the outside music industry by trying to convey existing trends in the music program. Stefan talks about this: “In the beginning of the new year we start discussing tendencies we want to follow. 3-4, 2-3 years ago this psych thing was very popular, like Tame Impala and so on. There was a tendency that many also in Denmark worked within this psych universe. That was maybe a genre we wanted to follow and right now it is this like urban indie thing going on that we are trying to fit into the program this year” (22).

77 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Based on the above findings, it is interesting to note how the music bookers perceive Roskilde Festival to be an influencer of the industry, how the event is an important window that can create and also pick up on existing trends in the industry. According to the bookers, Roskilde Festival appears to develop on and create trends that last after the festival has commenced.

5.3.3 Audience description

A few quotes within the interviews provides a perception of the audience from the producer side. Peter says:

“We are trying to develop the festival and I think if you go back in our program that you can see there is a certain development of the program of Roskilde Festival. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to keep the audience type that we do, because what is actually amazing, which is something a lot of festivals are struggling with, is that we actually manage to renew our audience. The average for the audience has always been between 23 and 24 years old and it still is. That is actually quite impressive. Most festivals have a tendency that the audience grow old with the festival.” (28).

Furthermore, Stefan also comments on the audience, depicting the level of engagement experienced from the audience:

“My stomach feeling is that our audience is very different than at a lot of other festivals. Both because people are living there for a week and it is a younger audience that at other festivals. We often get feedback from artists who say that it was the best job on the tour because people are so much “on” when they are at Roskilde” (29).

In their perception, the booker of Roskilde Festival maintain a young and engaged audience, which might add to the notion of how Roskilde keeps up with time, follows and creates trends within the music scene, and stay continuously relevant.

78 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 6: DISCUSSION OF FINDINGS

The following section will entail the primary discussion of the thesis, aiming to discover whether Roskilde Festival, based on the above provided theoretical framework in collaboration with the presentation of findings, can be defined as a heterotopia, and to what extent, within the six principles of classification.

6.1. FOUCAULT’S FIRST PRINCIPLE

In the theoretical framework, Foucault’s discussion of heterotopias taking on different forms, as a universal form of heterotopia has yet to be found is presented. Despite the broad variations, there are two main classifications set forth by Foucault; heterotopias of crisis and of deviance. Crisis heterotopias stem from privileged societies and the need for a hidden or sacred space for individuals who are in a state of crisis - such as menstruating or pregnant women, elderly and so forth, which Foucault claims are largely disappearing in modern society. The other main classification is heterotopias of deviation, heterotopias in which individuals exhibiting deviant behavior in relation to the “required mean” are placed (Foucault, 1984: 5).

In investigating Roskilde Festival in the framework of Foucault’s heterotopia, the development on the theory is that the festival is neither a place where a crisis-struck segment of the population can take shelter, nor an institution in which deviants are placed.

A common theme in the data collection instead shows that the festival instead lends itself as a space for the general population who want to engage in deviant behavior, albeit away from their daily life. The subject of “Roskilde Festival as an escape” in the data analysis shows that audience members use the space of the festival as an escape from their daily life, and once having arrived at the heterotopia engages in deviant behavior from the norm, usually of an extreme nature. The audience data showed themes of active escape from normal life, from technology, and from the idea of the outside world. The participant observation theme of “mindset difficulties” shows that failure to escape into the space resulted in frustration - especially when the failure is a direct result of the outside world attempting to permeate the space within. Therefore it can be argued that Roskilde Festival is itself a deviant of the norm of heterotopias of deviance, to the extent of findings in the data.

79 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The elements of deviant behavior are present in the case study, however it differs from Foucault’s traditional view of that classification of heterotopia in that it is an active choice by members of normal society to travel to a space in which they can engage in deviant behavior without the restrictions from the life they left behind.

The substantial data collection regarding the overall theme of “behavior and mindset patterns” introduces numerous observations in regard to behavior - and in particular behavioral changes in both the individual and collective from what is regarded the normal in the outside society to a type of deviant behavior, thus supporting the above assertion that members of society enter the heterotopic space in order to engage in deviant behavior not allowed in normal society.

In the topic of personal change in mindset and action, the data collection shows that there is a prevailing sense of freedom to behave in whatever manner the person wishes, such as being more attentive to others, feeling more natural, drinking more and letting loose of inhibitions.

The collective behavior tendencies surfacing are very much concerning the heterotopic space of the festival as a sort of bubble - in that the outside world becomes irrelevant to the life inside, and again the topic of freedom to engage in deviant behavior. The data shows a laissez-faire attitude towards traditional norms of activities within normal time frames, such as a social acceptance in drinking alcohol immediately after waking up.

A further behavioral tendency is a sense of openness between people in the space, which the data suggests could be a reaction to normalized society. The sense of inclusion and dialogue is suggested to be of much higher levels than the social space members have left behind.

The mentality of the overall group is argued by respondents having different although strict boundaries, which when crossed will be commented on. The collective mentality is fragile in nature in that it rests upon the premise of a homogeneous mindset and attitude towards the heterotopian space. This collective mentality, and the rules that delimit it, are passed down from generations of audience members, thereby effectively producing a new system of thought in the space that is deviant from the outside.

Having classified Roskilde Festival as a variation of Foucault’s concept of a heterotopia of deviance, and shown through the audience data collection that the engaging of deviant behavior and removal from outside society as a part of the process is in fact a conscious decision, the outcome of this removal from society is now theorized upon.

80 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The deviation from normalized behavior is described across the board as “freedom”, however, is the “freedom” at Roskilde Festival completely free or is just merely an alternate social ordering in alignment with our theoretical framework?

Respondents from the audience draw parallels to the self-governed space Christiania, which, like Roskilde Festival, has a set of rules and norms agreed upon which are different, and in some cases directly in contrast with the laws of the outside space. The data collection from the audience interviews shows that although there is a heightened sense of freedom, that a different set of rules and norms are prevalent inside the heterotopic space, differentiated in nature from outside society, yet still a rule set to abide by, and consequently a variation of reproduction of the very thing that is initially being escaped.

The collective eye, based on the rules and norms that the members of the heterotopia produce and reproduce, seems to be the governing institution that is prevalent as a replacement for traditional governing institutions in society. It is the collective eye that makes sure that individuals adhere to the social rules of the spaces, and takes action when the boundaries have been crossed - such as the immediate attention given to individuals who are endangered in one way or another.

Much as the deviation of behavior and the subsequent creation of a customized set of rules, a pattern of reproduction also become apparent in other traditional forms of institution. The notion of the camp, and especially the importance instilled in the camp by the members of the heterotopia, is interesting in that it draws parallels to another social institution in the outside world; the family and the home.

Various respondents put into words how crucial for their experience it is to have familiar faces in their camp, and how in some cases the absence of a friend could result in a refusal to enter the heterotopia of the festival. Furthermore, respondents in the data comment on the camp being a tool for the individual actor to experience the space on their own premises. The camp also has a function of transformation of the people within it, stripping away titles and social groupings prevalent in their old social lives, creating a sense of social equality based on the fact that all have the same foundations for a festival experience. The camp as an institution serves perhaps as a manifestation of the traditional values surrounding the family and the home in normalized society, which explains why the data collection points to the camp being a physical place of much, if not the highest, importance in the heterotopia.

However, despite the positive descriptions of the camp from the audience data collection, the observation data also brings forth an understanding of specific social expectations to behavior and contributions to the camp. An observed instance is how a lack of expected contribution by a camp member results in frustrations from the

81 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen other members, with the aggressive tone of the camp and the negative nature of their descriptions of him, making him a pariah to the group.

In conclusion, Roskilde Festival, to the extent of the findings available, is defined by Foucault’s first classification of heterotopias – the heterotopia of deviance.

The main obstacle for complete fulfillment of the requirement lies in the fact that Roskilde Festival is effectively a space of choice. The space is filled up by social actors choosing to forego their daily lives in order to enter a space where behavior earlier seen as deviant is in a way normalized inside the site.

The conscious choice to engage in deviant behavior inside the festival, and the subsequent creation of a set of unwritten rules and norms, deviant to the outside society, but normalized to the inside space, serves to show that Roskilde Festival, based on the limited data collection, in essence is a heterotopic space of deviation but that the audience members cannot leave the outside values at the door and conscious and consciously engage in a production and reproduction of values that are slightly differentiated, but have the same point of departure in essence.

The research acknowledges the existence of both heterotopias of dominance and resistance, and places the space of Roskilde Festival in the resistance end of the spectrum based on its deviant nature from social ordering.

6.2 FOUCAULT’S SECOND PRINCIPLE:

The assertion that heterotopias can change over time in accordance with developments in surrounding society, will in the case study not be taken into consideration, as the research believes that the macro scale of the principle would require a longitudinal study and would therefore be impossible to make any assertions on based on one year of festival research. The audience interview data does have some commentaries on the overall development of the festival, such as changes in the monetary barriers to entry, the focus on music programming, the development of the warm-up days as a fully fledged part of the event, and even the growth in size of the festival. Despite the presence of these themes in the primary data, the cautious path will be chosen, and will therefore not make any conclusions on the limited data available in this research.

82 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

6.3. FOUCAULT’S THIRD PRINCIPLE

Taking point of departure in the theoretical framework, Foucault’s third principle of the heterotopia presupposes the ability to juxtapose several spaces in themselves incompatible into a single space. The literature review uncovered that several spaces came together to unite formally incompatible instances such as demographic groupings in geographical settings not seen before.

Taking into consideration previous findings, the limited data on Roskilde Festival shows a similar presentation of variance, united through the physical settings of the festival. The music program of Roskilde Festival is touched upon by the primary data in multiple perspectives, from the intent of the music programmers to present their audience with the unknown, to audience exposure to novel experiences. Data collection from music bookers, specifically “the surprise aspect” code, uncovers how music can, as in the theoretical framework, be represented as one space, while the audience can represent another. World music, and its exotic nature in the local society in which Roskilde Festival is placed, together with other categorizations of unknown music is presented as both a deliberate strategy in the music booking data, and an instance of expectancy and enjoyment in the audience interview data collection.

In addition to the presentation of non-traditional music performances, Roskilde Festival presents physical spaces of experience such as Dream City, Street City, Art City, and Klub RÅ8. Data collection from participant observations serves to show the overwhelming effect on the individual, resulting in the need to leave the space within the space.

Furthermore, in investigating spaces within spaces, the notion of silent retreats inside loud places comes forth through the dataset of participant observations, commenting on observed differences of spaces. Furthering on the observational analysis, the audience descriptions of the camp as a home serves as an interesting theme. In the audience data analysis, codes such as “belonging to a camp” and “value of the festival” uncovered a general consensus of perceiving the camp as a home. As mentioned in the theoretical framework, the hidden place of the sacred is still prevalent in modern society in instances such as the inviolable oppositions of space in the given example of the family space and the social space, nurtured by the hidden presence of the sacred. The theoretical framework claims that ordinarily these juxtaposing physical spaces cannot be found together, however the audience data set codes above, in combination with “life at the festival”, serves to show how the camping area, described as a space

8 http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/arts-events

83 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen of rest and home, is simultaneously a place of partying and games, thus making it function both as the private home where to relax with people you know, but also an area of social interaction and party, blurring the boundary between private and public space.

A further example of the merging of inviolable spaces is the overlap in space of leisure and that of work. The participant observation data showed the merging of the two spaces in various setting, such as the backstage area reserved for working artists and high-clearance guests, and the setting of a volunteer work space where drinking and working are combined for enhanced pleasure. The lines between traditional divided spaces in normal society, are hereby shown to be blurred and embraced within the physical boundaries of the festival, to the extent of the data collection.

Juxtaposition of physical spaces, presented in the literature review, become apparent in the case study, upon observation of a multitude of uses of physical structures. The observational data uncovered in the theme of “re-use of space”, serves to show that both the ground on which the festival is placed, is also the home of alternative exhibitions. Additionally, areas for setting up temporary homes are traditionally sites for sports. The parallels between the literature review and the findings become apparent in the transformation of the function and meaning of a space.

Developing on the theoretical framework, findings in alignment with the included literature review, shows that not only are heterotopias spaces for encompassing juxtaposing physical places, but also spaces in the nonphysical sense. The literature review takes into consideration the ontological perspective of the thesis that of the constructionist view that social phenomena are shaped and given meaning by social actors, producing and reproducing through social action and continuous development.

Much to the extent as previous findings in literature, the data collection shows how Roskilde Festival accumulates various types of mindsets towards the festival, represented by multiple classifications of value in “time-line of festival”, “audience development” and “exploration” data codes. The multiple realities and understandings of the event experience represents multiple cognitive spaces meeting in the single space of the festival, representing a juxtaposition of incompatible spaces in the nonphysical sense. Conclusively it is argued that Roskilde Festival juxtaposes multiple cognitive spaces in one at the festival site to an extraordinary degree, given the diversity in the music programming, the inclusive nature of the festival and the diverse set of opinions recorded from the audience data collection.

Concluding on the third principle of Foucault it is found that multiple incompatible spaces are juxtaposed at Roskilde Festival more so than in other conventional spaces.

84 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

This, arguably, happens in different ways. Firstly, we see the fact that music from all over the world is being presented to a local audience, who most likely would not see this elsewhere, as the unique juxtaposition of two normally separated spaces. Secondly we find that the overall festival space consist of multiple small spaces each with a differing in functions between partying / relaxing, work / leisure, social interaction / privacy. All being comprised into one festival space with close proximity in between and overlap in functions we argue that multiple spaces, which are normally more clearly divided are juxtaposed in at the space of the festival. Furthermore we also view the fact that the festival space is transformed in function compared to the function of the site outside the festival week, as a way in which this specific site juxtapose multiple incompatible spaces, i.e. animal exhibition and music festival. Finally we follow the theoretical framework in its application of the third principle to a festival, and also assert that the diversity of people, evident in the interviews and from the diversity in the music, represent diverse and incompatible cognitive spaces, as realities, values, opinions of all people, which are all juxtaposed by gathering at the festival space.

6.4. FOUCAULT’S FOURTH PRINCIPLE

The fourth principle of the classification of a heterotopia is in Foucault’s text the notion that a heterotopia will function in full capacity when social actors with have an absolute break with their traditional time. Again, two major distinctions of a heterotopia are made in regards to time. The first major type is the heterotopia of indefinitely accumulating time, the other the absolutely temporal.

As mentioned in the theoretical framework, institutions such as museums and libraries exemplify heterotopias of indefinitely accumulating time. Spaces such as those are places of archival nature, where western culture has had a goal of enclosing in one space all the collections of prior time.

Contrastingly, the temporal heterotopia is linked to the notion of time in the utmost transitory and flowing way. Foucault uses the example of a festival as the manifestation of this type of space, where there is no concept of eternal.

Furthermore, a third variation of the heterotopia has surfaced in recent times; a crossover between the absolute extremes above. Foucault uses the example of vacation villages, where the rediscovery of time is made possible by the physical

85 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen framework, and the temporal framework of the space represents the nature of temporality.

To establish the nature of Roskilde Festival in relation to time, the research uses both primary and secondary data to support the claim. Upon searching for information of the festival, it is quickly established that the space is of a transitory nature; the festival’s lifespan is over the course of 7 days, ranging from the end of June to beginning of July every year. In the primary data, looking into the topic of “festival temporality” uncovers that there are different mindsets to the temporal nature of the event, ranging from the dismissal of all considerations of both the world and the future of the outside space, to the realization that the value of the event may in fact be the temporal nature, to the sense of responsibility two or three weeks down the line. All the data that has touched upon this topic accepts and acknowledges the festival as a temporal event, leading the findings to lean towards Foucault’s second definition in the fourth principle - the temporal heterotopia.

In the data collection from the participant audience, an interesting theme of the festival as an island arises, giving birth to thought of the role of the festival in a temporal setting. By being an effectively isolated experience, in a space with barriers to entry, there exists a sense of importance that something in the isolated temporal space must be achieved within the strict time frame of the event, as it is “an island that disappears again when we leave”.

The entering of the heterotopic space signifies a break with time in the traditional sense, and the physical removal may aid in submerging oneself into the distorted perceptions of time, only prevalent in the heterotopic space.

The preliminary data creates time as a meta-code with various themes beneath it. The concept of breaking away from traditional frames, such as behavior and time, are touched upon by almost the entire respondent group, making for compelling findings in the data.

The initial findings show how the audience’s perception of time shifts from traditional interpretations. Respondents claim that time simultaneously goes by faster and slower than in the outside world, mainly due to the absence of responsibility and commitments. The flow and change of time does not only change in relation to the outside world, but also changes in nature between the warm-up days and the main days, in which a radical shift is observed. The initial period of the festival is that of no responsibility in any way, and a complete lack of agendas, whereas with the arrival of the second and final part of the festival, time frames appeared and obligations to meetings with others.

86 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

From the perception of time change, the notion of how audience members measure this change in time is investigated. The data collection shows awareness of the shift in time measurement metrics, and point especially to the rituals surrounding mealtimes and sleeping patterns, and the complete disregard of those structures at the festival. Daily life activities at the festival are shown in the participant observation dataset as being a repetitive pattern that continues go on for hours and days, making it easy to travel from space to space within the festival area without a fear of missing out - as the activity would flow steadily all day. Time loses its importance when there is nothing the individual has to do. The traditional time constraints of the individual in society have been altered, which in the data is suggested why the feeling of freedom surfaces. Instead of traditional rituals such as those, time instead becomes structured around the only thing of meaning (and the base of existence of the festival), concerts. With the shift from warm-up days to music days, comes also a reintroduction of agendas and schedules, with places to be and bands to see.

The proximity of Roskilde Festival to its outer world may perhaps be a factor in how fully the audience member can immerse into the experience of letting go of time. Various respondents in the audience data collection and the participant observation data discuss leaving the space and re-entering normal society for a brief period of time, usually bound in practicalities, upon then to return to the festival site. The possibility to be able to leave the space, makes it interesting that so many of the audience members attempt to immerse themselves so fully in the experience - as a partial or occasional visit to the outside world and the comforts of home, could make the overall living standards much higher. It is an interesting inclination to go against the obvious and easy choice to still be connected to society, which perhaps lends thought to the importance of the individual to flee the norm - whether it be behavioral or temporal based patterns.

Although there is arguably a gradual introduction to the normal expectations of time with schedules and patterns, the data also shows a tendency of sadness after the festival - the Roskilde Blues. The feeling of isolation and loneliness is by secondary sources described as a result of an overwhelmingly intense social experience, and the feeling of the self after becomes too quiet, however, we also see a pattern of a depression towards the return to the traditional time constraints that social actors have just spent a week avoiding.

Also in the participant observation data, it was shown that there was a sense of ambivalence upon leaving the festival. The last period of the festival was notably a period of internal struggle, as there was both a bodily wish to leave and restore energy

87 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen levels, but also a sense of urgency in the importance of experiencing every last experience possible before the festival closes.

The data shows, in parallel with the theoretical framework, that actors are effectively making the festival function fully upon entering the space and taking on a altered state of mind. As stated in Foucault’s original text, a transitory heterotopia is that of a festival, which Roskilde Festival, based on the available data, seems to be. The system of entering the place makes for a space in which participants can break with traditional systems of time and instead embrace a new mode of time reference, not bound by normalized restrictions and norms. Time lends itself a different meaning once inside the space, and indeed references to the space outside are rejected as much as possible by the inhabitants.

6.5. FOUCAULT’S FIFTH PRINCIPLE

The theoretical framework lends a definition of the fifth principle as a space with an open and close. In the literature review, findings suggest that barriers of entry exist as both physical and social barriers, suggesting that there are different levels of entry into a heterotopic space than merely crossing a border.

Closely aligned with the literature review, it becomes evident in the audience data analysis that physical barriers appear first and foremost in some form of monetary barriers, preparation barrier and / or work provision barriers, and cost of living standard.

Following the theoretical framework, it can be confirmed, to the extent of the available data collection, that physical barriers evident at Roskilde Festival can be classified as compulsory and formally know, thereby partially recognizing the space as of a heterotopic nature.

Nonphysical barriers to entry is a significant entry in the data collection, with reflections on social expectations of the individual in the space, as recognized in the observation data code “social expectations to camp”. On the grander level, analysis on audience data reveals behavioral changes as barriers to entry as the apparent feeling of freedom in “unwritten rules and freedoms” prove to be a limitation in that overstepping the parameters set by the social entity will have consequences for the individual, according to the limited data available.

88 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Much like the findings in the literature review, through participant observations and audience descriptions, the notion of internal nonphysical barriers become apparent in regards to the feeling of community and reaching the core of the experience. In previous literature, findings suggest an active participation in festival activities for personal gain in symbolic capital. Roskilde Festival corroborates the former literature in a multitude of ways.

The initial observation is by the audience members, pointing out themselves how to determine type of guests (and length of stay in the space) depending on physical appearances. Audiences present in the space longer than the observed one-day visitors comment in a demeaning manner on the level of self-care and higher hygienic standards than members of the entire period. This purposeful negative disassociation serves to show internal barriers to entry in the case of social acceptance among groups inside the space, based on length of stay and involvement of the creation of the space. Previous literature studies also the importance of personal sacrifice to the heterotopia, and with the limited data collection of Roskilde Festival it can be warily concluded that failure of personal sacrifice will result in negative attitudes from members feeling they sacrifice to a larger extent.

Furthermore, the theme of sacrifice can be connected to the literature review in regards to the accumulation of symbolic capital by individuals within the space. Audience data shows a desire to reach the core of the festival, much like the literature review, however the proximity to the core is related to behavior and not symbolic capital as signified in the codes “belonging to the overall Roskilde community” and “value of festival” showing that the key to gaining increased access to the deeper layers of the space and obtain the ultimate experience lies in the case of Roskilde Festival, to the extent of the data, in behavioral patterns.

The limited findings in this thesis, in combination with the theoretical framework and literature review, serve to assert Roskilde Festival as a heterotopic space in the case of the fifth principle of opening and closing, with barriers to entry. Two main categorizations of barriers are uncovered, apparent and traditional physical barriers, and nonphysical barriers on both the social and communal positions, together with the desire to reach the heart of the space. It is important to note, however, that the limited collection of data on barriers to entry prevents the study to make concrete conclusions.

89 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

6.6. FOUCAULT’S SIXTH PRINCIPLE

The final characteristic of a heterotopia is the function of the space in relation to all other spaces. In Foucault’s mind, this function is on a line between two extremes, the extremity of being the function of illusion and the extremity of the function of compensation. The research argues that Roskilde Festival lies in between the extreme poles of classification, as our data collection showed evidence of both characteristics.

Foucault uses the example of Jesuit colonies in South America as a representation of heterotopias of compensation, where the geographical layout of the space was in perfect alignment with Christian values and was evenly reproduced, together with a strict regulation of all individuals’ life, the synchronization of daily tasks of all by a bell.

When considering Roskilde Festival with these theoretical reflections in mind, it becomes obvious that there are parallels in the area of compensation.

Although Foucault mainly discusses compensation as a structural and regulative instance, it is noted that the data uncovered on the topic of behavioral changes may be an indication that Roskilde Festival serves as an entity of compensation.

The behavioral changes in the individual, captured in new outlooks on appropriate behaviors on drinking and sleeping, and the more “natural” outlook on life, together with a heightened sense of freedom, points towards the notion that the festival has a function in relation to the outside society - the function of compensating the social actor’s feeling of restriction in daily life, and offering a sacred space in which the individual has the possibility to act how they ultimately wish to. In this way, the absence of structures becomes the fundament for the individual to engage in whatever freedom and constraints he ultimately wishes to engage in. The social actor becomes free to make whichever behavioral choice he wishes, and in these choices he himself becomes the constructor of a perfect space, a space which lends the compensation needed from the restrictions of the outside world.

Roskilde Festival is divided up into two parts: the warm-up days and the music days. In the warm-up days there are no programs contrary to the music days, where all activities are schematized into a strict programme divided out to all participants upon entry. Much like the Jesuit colonies, the festival is organized, although temporally, not geographically, towards its notion of a “deity” - music concerts. Taking away the religious undertones from the equation, the notion of a deity or in this case music concerts run parallel in they are of the highest importance to the participants in the space.

90 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Roskilde Festival in this case has elements of compensation as the reordering of structure are realized towards what is deemed the most important for the individual, a liberty not enjoyed in traditional structures of ordering in the outside society.

Diving into the organization behind the festival, the data collection on the music bookers of Roskilde Festival shows a sense of awareness of the role the festival has in the local society. All of the music bookers touch upon the responsibility they and the festival have when it comes to presenting new or alternative music to their audience. They discuss the festival’s role as an influencer in the outside world, claiming that their actions have direct consequences in society, such as increased revenue for the bands, a new platform for international world music artists that perhaps would not have been possible without the festival, and being part of trend movements.

The bookers discuss the importance of their role and how they take a stance on both representing countries, but also a diverse array of genres and trends, such as the wave of neo-psych rock, female rappers, and alternative urban indie music. The organization behind the festival seemingly has a larger agenda and perspective, hoping that the presentation of various music may influence the audience - thereby the festival has a function of both presenting what has been missing or neglected in normal society whilst simultaneously educating the members of the space.

Through the active choice of following an agenda with an educational value, the bookers of Roskilde Festival further make the space a place of compensation. The representation of music and experiences at the festival are not available outside, thereby the representation becomes a compensation for the lack in real world.

The final example of Roskilde Festival as function of relation is that of its existence serving as a juxtaposition of space. The existence of the festival is a manifestation of the alternative to the norm, whether it be through the exhibition of new behavioral patterns, or the opposition to traditional temporal structures.

The reality of the space becomes a space of illusion to the audience members, as they engage with the festival with the mindset of there being nothing else, however the absolute temporal nature of the space establishes it as a “bubble” - an alternative to the ordinary life, but not a place where one can stay. The freedom that the data collection expresses is present at the festival, is also a type of collective delusion, in that the freedom is only temporary and will only exist in the temporal space. According to the data, the sense of freedom within does not translate to the outside.

91 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

In the audience data set, individuals express how experiencing the festival makes them reflect upon daily life and the realities of it. The topic of the “post-Roskilde mindset” shows that upon leaving the space, there is a development of a change in the mindset of the individual - in some cases returning to society provokes a depressive state of mind, in others it became a perspective on which the individual could reflect on the normal state of life. A respondent claims that the outside world is affected by the event of the festival, that the altered mindset of the individual is brought back to some extent to the outside - thereby the heterotopic space through illusion comes to have an influencing function to the other spaces. Values and norms permeating the heterotopia do not only provide guidance inside, but do also have an effect on the outside.

It can be argued that Roskilde Festival does have a function to all the space that remains, however Foucault’s definition of what those functions constitute seem to be a bleak interpretation of the complexity of real-world spaces such as Roskilde. The festival does not only lie on a spectrum between illusion and compensation, but serves as a reflective and in some cases educational space, not limited to the negative aspects of human life.

92 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 7: CONCLUSION

In order to fully clarify how and to what extent Roskilde Festival can be defined as a heterotopia, a mention of the applied theoretical framework is necessary. An initial departure in Michel Foucault’s 1984 lecture on “Of Other Spaces: Utopias and Heterotopias” makes available a starting point for definition in the structured ordering of Six Principles of Heterotopia presented.

However, after taking into consideration commentaries on the theory and investigation of previous literatures on the application of the concept in researches on festival spaces, the thesis creates a set of amended principles of classification to determine Roskilde Festival as a heterotopia, distinguishing itself from the theoretical starting point presented by Michel Foucault.

Foucault’s original assertion in theory that a space must be of crisis or a place to situate individuals in behavior that is deviant to the norm, has been amended and developed upon in the theoretical framework and does now include the assertion that a heterotopic space can be of deviant nature if normally behaving members of the outside world remove themselves from the daily restrictions of life and enter an alternative place in which they can engage in deviant behavior. A space does not only fulfill the requirement of being a space of deviation if members are forced to enter, but also when it is a conscious choice to engage by the social actor.

Roskilde Festival fulfills the amended first definition of the heterotopia in that findings give strong indications of the notion of active escapism from society and in particular escapism from normalized behavior.

By entering the deviant space of the festival, the social actors’ behavioral changes create an alternative set of social dynamics and rules, effectively producing and reproducing a new normalized social ordering with other social values. The goal and value placed on Roskilde Festival is by the participants determined as a sense of freedom to act in whatever way desired, however patterns of unwritten social structures and sense of ordering appear simultaneously with the creation of new norm set to such an extent that participants in the space collectively monitor deviants from the new normal.

The reordering of deviant behavior into normalized structures leads to a further investigation in the theoretical framework’s principle of the function of the heterotopia in relation to other spaces.

The case is discovered to lie between the two extremes of functions of illusion and compensation. Elements of compensation are uncovered through the manifestation of a physical space in which social actors can remove themselves from normalized spaces and engage in deviant behavior. The heterotopia compensates a need not fulfilled in the outside world of behavioral freedoms and additionally reorders itself towards what the findings determined as the ultimate valuable of the festival, music concerts.

93 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The accommodation of the desires of social actors establishes the festival as a heterotopia of compensation in reality.

The notion of freedom prevalent at Roskilde Festival however, is arguably tied to the function of the festival as a heterotopia of illusion, in that the sense of freedom and the existence of the space itself is only temporary and fails to leave the physical space, as determined by the findings. The reality of social reordering within the space is therefore a temporary illusion of the participants involved. By acting as an illusion, the findings indicate that there is a level of knowledge production and indeed a sense of education which participants take with them to the outside through their reflections and an altered state of mind.

Based on these findings, Roskilde Festival can be classified as a heterotopia of both illusion and compensation, as the data collection indicates that the space has multiple functions in relation to other spaces.

Internally inside the physical space, the theoretical framework presupposes that spaces incompatible in the outside world are juxtaposed within one inside a space of heterotopia. In findings it was uncovered that spaces physically normally not able to exist in one, are set up against one another at the festival, suggesting that Roskilde Festival fulfills the requirement of juxtaposition.

Additionally, findings uncover contrasting nonphysical spaces at the festival. The level of compatible incompatibility is presented at Roskilde Festival to a much larger extent than in conventional societies, based on the representation of usually physically incompatible experiences, the existence of physical spaces with contrasting functions in the same space, and the representation of diverse cognitive realities present in the same place.

The classifying principle of heterotopias as spaces with opening and closes, is in the theoretical framework developed to hypothesize that barriers to entry exists both physically and socially, suggesting several levels of entry into the space.

Upon investigating whether Roskilde Festival can be defined within this interpretation, findings concluded obvious physical barriers are compulsory and formally known by the participants of the space. Nonphysical barriers to entry are through findings discovered to be based on the social reordering of the space on both the individual and communal level, and the consequences of this deviation from the outside world.

Finally, the issue of breaking with traditional structures of time, denotes the final classification of the heterotopian space. The theoretical framework describes two major distinctions and the emergence of a hybrid between the two, the combination of the accumulative and absolute temporal space.

The findings firmly establish Roskilde Festival as a strong example of absolute temporality. Participants in the space and an established temporal framework for the event serve to show that the entering of the physical place signifies a break with traditional realities of time, asserted by findings indicating a shift in perception.

94 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The requirement of an open and close set forth by the theoretical framework is fulfilled by Roskilde Festival not only in relation to the outside world, but also within the space signified by the two-part divide of the event into a period without temporal structures and limitations to lean on, and a period in which there is a strict structuring of time via the music programming of the festival.

Participants in the space are the enablers of the space in a transitory fashion, as the social actor’s break from traditional systems of time and subsequent embrace of a new mode of time reference, becoming the action that fabricates a system of open and close.

In conclusion, the research suggests that, based on five out of six amended principles of classification, Roskilde Festival can be defined as a heterotopia, to the extent of the data available to the study.

95 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 8: PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF FINDINGS:

Is it reliable? As discussed earlier in the methodology section of the thesis, the choice of research design ultimately results in practical implications. The issue of reliability, and the notion of standardization of a data gathering process in order to ensure that other researchers would have identical findings, will in a case study research such as this thesis be difficult to ensure. The issue of reliability lies mainly in the replication of a study. The research has from the beginning of the data collection decided that the value of open-ended interviews, the depth of knowledge shared by the interviewee and interviewer, was higher than the notion of replicating the interview according to a strict format for response.

Due to a relatively small sample size (17 interviewees out of 120.000 possible attendees at Roskilde Festival 2017, 3 out of 6 from the music programming group. See table in Methodology), it is clear that the findings may have been of another nature if interviewing other respondents. Furthermore, by interviewing the audience members with the knowledge of the general theoretical framework, the issue of interview bias effectively comes up. However, as mentioned in the methodological concerns, by adopting a level of “semi- ignorance” in regards to prior work and theoretical developments, the interview bias was minimized as much as possible.

It became apparent during the on-site data collection, that response bias could have an impact on the findings, as the spontaneity of the interview gave candid responses, however showed an unforeseen obstacle in inability to focus, inebriation, and cutting off interviews before a traditional close. In order to further battle the practical implications of the issue of reliability, the thesis paper included a substantial amount of literature review on previous researches on the topic of festivals as heterotopias. In order to limit interview bias, the literature review was not established until after the data collection and three-level coding was completed.

As the above findings concluded, despite the relative size of the audience data collection in this thesis, there were findings that correlated with multiple other cases. Being a case study, this does not directly affect the findings in this thesis, however the broad general consensus in findings such as behavioral changes, leads to believe that, given a larger data collection, the answers would largely be within the same response pattern as observed earlier. While this thesis fits well with some literature addressing some overall themes found in studies in similar contexts, it also adds to the literature

96 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen by introducing additional themes connected to Roskilde Festival. An example is how the overall theme of behavioral change within a festival is seen in other studies, while at the same time the detailed patterns of behavior found here are very specific to this case, e.g. participants explanation of special vibe and dress-code at the festival compared to other festival they attended. In that way the thesis provides findings that are specific but still addresses overall themes that are to some extent transferable to other scenarios, depending on the context of these.

It is important to note, however, that the case has birthed findings that are exclusive to the case alone - therefore the above note on correlation with other cases should only be considered in the specific correlations alone.

Is it valid? As explained in the methodology, the case study framework is perceived to be high on validity given its explorative nature and in-depth approach. Due to the inquisitive and curious nature of the data collection, respondents are able to elaborate upon their answers to open-ended questions to a much larger extent, making it easier to infer the specific meaning of their response and gain insights in their interpretations and understandings. During the coding process each quote and theme is drawn out of the larger conversation about a topic, ensuring an understanding of the overall context and avoiding the risk of asserting something that the respondent did not actually believe.

In order to further increase levels of validity, all of the interview situations were placed in the respondents’ “natural element”, whether it be in the physical space of Roskilde Festival, or in the case of the music booker, the comfort and safety of their office.

The validity is strengthened especially within certain points in the discussion, where findings in a theme are supported by multiple data collections. Within the third principle of how Roskilde Festival juxtapose several incompatible spaces, examples are uncovered from participants and booker interviews as well as participant observation, while at the same time some of the same examples are seen in the literature review acting as further support to the findings. In addition this principle is concerned with the discovery of some non-negotiable facts (social entity), e.g. how a facility changes function, which ensures validity in the sense that there is no risk of misunderstanding a fact like that. Despite adopting the constructivist view and taking subjective realities into account some findings are merely related to neutral objects, not bound by a social setting. In this case, the interpretation of the findings is where one should be cautious, but again these were inspired by the interpretations of other authors.

97 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

The same considerations goes for principle five, where the determined physical barriers act as non-negotiable fact (social entity) and the interpretation of an extra social entry barrier follows the interpretation found in the literature. It must be noted that the support of multiple sources does not appear within the discussion of all principles. The interpretation of Roskilde Festival as a voluntary deviant heterotopia within the first principle is built entirely on patterns found in the participant interviews and with the adaptation of the “deviant heterotopia”-concept it should be noted that the validity of this claim is weaker than the others, but, however still suggests an interesting view of the function of Roskilde Festival, for possible further exploration. In principle four regarding time, all conclusions are drawn from the participant interviews, but in this case the answers range significantly given the intangibility of the concept discussed. Following the constructivist philosophy all the varying answers are taken into account as individual realities, which lowers the validity in the overall claims about time, since the discovered patterns does not constitute a perfect picture of all the perceptions on this concept. The concept of time, and the ambiguity it represents due to the philosophical framework of constructionism, will ultimately be a challenge in regards to validating all data. In order to support the claims made in the thesis, the theoretical framework and in particular the literature review aids in the discovery of similar concepts of time. While resting on ideas from others this study also adds to the literature by discovering adapted ways to look at the concept, e.g. perceptions of the speed of time within the festival.

Is it generalizable? As explained in the methodology section, qualitative research like this case have in the past often been criticized in its lack of generalizability; the ability to generalize on the findings or transfer to other settings. It is important to note that it has always been the aim of the study to investigate the case of Roskilde Festival in the theoretical context of the heterotopia, and not attempt to force general postulations regarding the entire world. Without attempting to generalize to other contexts and given the arguments on reliability and validity presented above, the practical implications for this study are of greatest value to stakeholders of, or other interested in, the specific case of Roskilde Festival, for example the management or bookers. The fact that the findings are primarily rooted in the opinions of participants suggests how the thesis can be of value to the management, by providing an in-depth look into the opinions of their users. By applying the framework of heterotopia the thesis can supply the management with a picture of the unique capabilities of the festival. While it is assumed that providers of the festival are aware that they are creating something unique the framework helps to explain “in what way” this is special and specifically how it is different from conventional spaces.

98 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

CHAPTER 9: FUTURE RESEARCH

Due to the limited timeframe and scope of this thesis paper, some relevant areas were not addressed in this report, opening up to the possibility of future research of observations that could not be concluded on, due to lack of sufficient data. The second principle introduced in the theoretical framework, was in the research discarded as it deals with how changes in society over time affect the function of a heterotopia, requiring a longitudinal study, as to look at the festival and its relation to society over a period of multiple years. Where this study established an important first step of a cross-sectional view, a longitudinal study may give interesting insights to stakeholders of Roskilde Festival, posting a more dynamic picture of the development of the festival and its relevance over time.

In the case of the festival’s relevance an interesting future research could also focus specifically on the educational aspects of the sixth principle, as a way to further determine how the festival as a heterotopia affects its surrounding places. It could be interesting to explore the aspect of how such a place creates value beyond offering a week of partying and music, e.g. tapping into elements such as mindset changes discovered in this thesis. While this thesis establishes how Roskilde Festival functions as a heterotopia, further study could focus on how the festival influences surrounding spaces. A further addition to future research is taking point of departure in other interesting themes revealed in the data collection. An interesting discovery was that of the social dynamics, behaviors and unwritten rules that exist at Roskilde Festival. Future research could benefit from the implementation of Pierre Bourdieu’s theoretical notion of symbolic capital and the habitus, and attempt to make a more detailed overview of exactly what kind of unwritten rules exist and how they differ from the prevailing rules in the outside society. Widening the scope even further, the notion of unwritten rules and festival behavior uncovered in the case study of Roskilde Festival could also be investigated in multiple festivals as part of a single study. Investigating multiple festivals through participation would require significantly more time and effort, but would be able to distinguish patterns in alternative festival cultures.

Having set out to investigate how and to what extent the case of Roskilde Festival can be defined as a heterotopia, the findings from a three-pronged data collection uncovered various tendencies to support the classification as such. However, due to the limited sample size in both audience and music booker interviews, the findings have room for strengthening. Further research with a specific research question evolved from the findings in this thesis, could focus additionally on reliability and generalizability to test whether the findings are applicable in other contexts.

99 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Books and Articles:

Bryman, A., and Bell, E., 2015, Business Research Methods, Oxford University Press 4th edition

Falassi, A., 1987, Festival: Definition and Morphology, in Falassi, A., Ed., Time out of Time, University of New Mexico Press, Albuquerque.

Foucault, M. October 1984, Of Other Spaces, in Architecture / Mouvement / Continuité (“Des Espace Autres”, March 1967, Translated from the French by Jay Miskowiec)

Foucault, M. 1998a ‘Different Spaces’, in J. Faubion (ed.) Aesthetics: the Essential Works, 2. London: Allen Lane, pp. 175–85.

Flyvbjerg, B., 2006, Five Misunderstanding About Case-Study Research, in Qualitative Inquiry volume 12 no. 2, pp. 219-245

Genocchio, B., 1995, ‘Discourse, Discontinuity, Difference: the Question of Other Spaces’ in S. Watson and K. Gibson (eds.), Postmodern Cities and Spaces, Oxford: Blackwell, pp. 35-46.

Gilmore, L., 2008, “Of Ordeals and Operas: Reflexive Ritualizing at the Burning Man Festival”, in Victor Turner and Contemporary Cultural Performance. Graham St John Ed. Berghahn Books. pp. 211-226

Gioia, DA., Corley KG. & Hamilton AL., 2012, Seeking Qualitative Rigor in Inductive Research: Notes on the Gioia Methodology, in Organizational Research Methods pp. 15-31

Hetherington, K., August 1997, The Badlands of Modernity: Heterotopia and Social Ordering, in Taylor and Francis

Johnson, P., 2006, Unravelling Foucault’s “different spaces”, in History of the human Sciences, SAGE publication Vol. 19 No. 4 pp. 75-90

Karaosmanoglu, D. 2010, Nostalgia Spaces of Consumption and Heterotopia: Ramadan Festivities in Istanbul, in Culture Unbound Vol. 2, pp. 283-302.

Lefebvre, H. 1991, The Production of Space, Wiley-Blackwell (Translated by Donald Nicholson-Smith)

Levitas, RA & Sargisson, L 2003, Utopia in Dark Times, in R Baccolini & T Moylan (eds), Dark Horizons. Routledge, pp. 13 - 28

100 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Quinn, B. & Wilks, L., 2017, Festival Heterotopias: Spatial and temporal transformations in two small-scale settlements, in Journal of Rural Studies 53, pp. 35- 44

Rose, G. 1993, Feminism and Geography, in Feminist Review No. 51, pp. 133-135

Saunders, M., Lewis, P., & Thornhill, A., 2003, Research Methods for Business Students, Prentice Hall, 3rd edition

Topinka, R., J. September 2010, Foucault, Borges, Heterotopia: Producing Knowledge in Other Spaces, in Foucault Studies, No. 9, pp. 54-70

Wilks, L., & Quinn, B., 2016, Linking ocial capital, cultural capital and heterotopia at the folk festival, in Journal of Comparative Research in Anthropology and Sociology, Volume 7, pp. 23-39

Websites and Articles:

For Studerende. (n.d.). Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://roskildefestivalgruppen.dk/da/for-studerende/

RoskildeFestivalGuide. (2013, March 20). Historien om Roskilde Festival. Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://roskilde-festival-guide.dk/historien-om-roskilde- festival/

Vores Historie. (n.d.). Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://roskildefestivalgruppen.dk/da/vores-historie/

Christiania. (n.d.). Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://www.visitdenmark.com/christiania

Pröschold, J. (2017, July 2). Roskilde-blues: Derfor føler du dig ensom og forladt efter otte dage på festival. Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://politiken.dk/kultur/musik/roskildefestival/art6017750/Derfor-f%C3%B8ler-du- dig-ensom-og-forladt-efter-otte-dage-p%C3%A5-festival

Fricke, D. (2000, August 17). Nine Dead at Pearl Jam Concert. Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nine-dead-at-pearl-jam- concert-20000817

How to camp at Roskilde Festival 2017. (n.d.). Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/guide/camping

Arts & Events. (n.d.). Retrieved September 14, 2017, from http://www.roskilde- festival.dk/arts-events

101 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

APPENDIX

Table of content

PARTICIPANT INTERVIEW: CODING LEVEL 3 ...... 2

PARTICIPANT OBSERVATION: CODING LEVEL 3 ...... 16

BOOKER INTERVIEWS: CODING LEVEL 3 ...... 20

FIELD DIARIES / PARTICIPANT OBSERVATION ...... 22

INTERVIEW GUIDE: AUDIENCE ...... 26

INTERVIEW GUIDE: MUSIC BOOKERS ...... 27

TRANSCRIPTION AUDIENCE INTERVIEWS ...... 29

TRANSCRIPTION: BOOKERS ...... 56

ROSKILDE FESTIVAL MAP 2017 ...... 78

1 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

PARTICIPANT INTERVIEW: CODING LEVEL 3

No. Meta-code (theme) Respondent Quote TIME AT RF

PERCEPTION OF 6 TIME

Change in perception “Time goes more quickly. I can’t describe it on a scale. The days. It feels like they 7 of time Lukas go by quicker.”

“(time) has no meaning. yes, when the concerts take place, otherwise you have all 8 Perception of time Rasmus the time in the world”

9 Perception of time Rune “Perhaps time goes slower (at the festival)” “Because, you have nowhere to be but all day to get there. And especially before the music starts, that's EVERYTHING. Nowhere to be and all day to get there! Here it's like, okay we have to focus a little more because we wanna see what we wanna see, 10 Perception of time Canada type of thing.” 11 MEASUREMENT OF 12 TIME “the only concept of time is related to which concerts you want to see, and whether you can eat in between, make it back to the camp or not – how long time it takes. you never really look at the time, only to see when the concert is. that’s why you look at 13 Time measurement Mari the time” “(concerts) is the only justification for time. then you forget time a little, but that is also what does that you don’t really eat meals, you just eat when you’re hungry. I feel that in daily life you eat at 7am, at 12pm I eat lunch, and at 6pm I eat dinner. At Roskilde its like “I eat when I’m hungry, if I’m hungry. Maybe. If I have time and 14 Time measurement Mari the queue isn’t too long”.” “When you are home you get up at some point, eat breakfast, eat lunch at some point, eat dinner. You don’t do that (at Roskilde Festival), everything in pushed and it doesn’t matter, it’s not even sure that you eat... time becomes inconsequential, it 15 Fluidity of time Vildana becomes liquid.” “You take a nap at some point, you don’t sleep at night, you take a nap. Whether you do it in the afternoon, in the morning or at night is up to you. In that way time doesn’t matter. It becomes a little more important when the music starts, then you begin to care what time is it, but only in the relation to the program and not your 16 Perception of time Vildana life.” “I guess you always (think about time at home) because you have many things to do in regards to school and everything, here certainly in the warm-up period you don’t think so much about time, but in the music-days the only time you think about time is in relation to when you have to see some music. It’s a relaxation that you don’t 17 time value mie have to think about time. That’s also what makes it nice, that you escape that.” 18 NO TRADITIONAL TIME 19 CONSTRAINTS “Its free. It’s easier to be at Roskilde. The euphoria of feeling that you can do exactly what you want, when you want, of course inside the law. It’s the freedom there is, you can do exactly what you want when you want, there is nobody judging you 20 Feeling of freedom Vildana thinking its weird the first thing you get in the morning is an Irish Coffee” “It doesn’t matter if its ten in the morning or seven in the evening, because I can sit somewhere and drink a beer and no one will judge me no matter the time, so in that 21 Perception of time Vildana way you can feel that time has been pushed”

2 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

22 FESTIVAL 23 TEMPORALITY “I can understand that people feel (like in a bubble), and I can also be drawn to it, but Awareness of I still walk around with a bundle of sense that I have to do something the week after 24 temporality Rune or two weeks or three weeks, so I never quite get away”

“The future doesn’t matter, so in a way there is no one who judges you, it can’t have recklessness in any consequences for you unless you do something that’s illegal then there isn’t 25 temporality vildana anything that can have consequences for you at Roskilde” 26 27 OTHER

Time aspect of daily Days are not the same in that it takes time to do daily activities (e.g. eating 28 activities Lukas breakfast/brushing teeth) as it is not situated in the home. “You (think about time) if there is something you really want to see, but not apart 29 time value volunteer1 from that. We take it pretty easy” 30 Time value Mari “there are concerts that take place, but that is the only thing that has meaning” 31 time value volunteer2 “There isn’t so much you need to do, it’s not as busy as the big city” BEHAVIOR AND MINDSET 39 PATTERNS PERSONAL CHANGE IN MINDSET AND 42 ACTION I don’t think I’m so different (on Roskilde Festival) to be honest. I think I maybe dance more at Roskilde than a normal night out. That’s how I act different. I also 43 Behavioral change Lukas drink more than I usually do.”

44 Self-awareness Lukas “I am not so helpful” “I think I am a more attentive and caring person. People are more cozy at Roskilde than daily. People are more attentive to whether you are okay and open and open to going over and checking. An example is the two boys who had drank too much tequila, I probably wouldn’t have spent half an hour of my life sitting and helping two 14 year old boys. You are more attentive to other people and cozy and nice – 45 Behavioral change Mari and more large.” “I don’t care who I am (at Roskilde). It doesn’t matter. If people I don’t know come over and ask what my name is one could almost say, “well what do you think my name should be”, and that’s what’s great. When we played beer bowling and a guy asked me if he could kiss me where I’m like “sure – if you drink my beer!” it doesn’t 46 behavioral change vildana matter and I would never do that normally.” “On a daily basis I try and be as human and as real as possible, so I think it's easier to do that here than to do in like the outside world, but I do notice a difference because I, ehm, I feel more natural here. Just doing whatever I wanna do, like just, whatever 47 being at ease canada kind of, ehm, like not instinct but like any type of idea like I can do it.” “I think also its your own approach to it. Now we dress ourselves comfortably. Rain gear, we hadn’t thought of that the first ten years. Why the hell should we bring 48 Festival dresscode Absalon1 raingear.” “I really embrace the whole, it sounds corny, but the whole living in the moment 49 carpe diem jonas thing…”

“I think the biggest difference is that down here I’m drunk all the time and I’m not at 50 drinking habits mie time”

51 flexibility in plans volunteer2 “We change our minds all the time” “I have considered (going home) today… but it’s just to go home to a real bed and 52 going home volunteer1 take a bath. Dry clothes because it’s raining. If it had been sunny all week… then it

3 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

wouldn’t have mattered”

“I think (at the festival) you talk louder generally. Maybe I feel more free, but that 53 Feeling of freedom Rune doesn’t mean that I am”

54 Reason for freedom Rune Why free: “probably because I don’t have any plans” COLLECTIVE BEHAVIOUR 57 TENDENCIES “You don’t really think about the things you usually think about. That you have to pay bills or buy food, all these things you don’t think about while you’re at a festival. 58 Carefree Mari You are much more carefree.” “You take care of each other in some way. It’s very hard to put into words why it is like it is. But I think it’s because everyone are in a way fragile. It demands that everyone come with the same mindset and attitude towards it. I feel that you raise each other, and those who have been on the festival teach the ones who have not 59 Homogenic mindset Mari been there many times how to behave” “Or if people are too drunk, you can be pretty fucking wasted but if you are half a step too far, people will show up immediately and be like hey are you okay do you Keeping an eye on need water some food where is your camp should i take you back? I feel you see that 60 each other Mari a lot immediately that people are like no that was a little too much.”

61 Hard boundaries Mari “There is a boundary and immediately when you cross the line the group will say it.”

“Maybe its a place where you can make some new rules for yourself, both personally 62 Behavioral change Rune and socially, and that can give a lovely little feeling of freedom” “Its free. It’s easier to be at Roskilde. The euphoria of feeling that you can do exactly what you want, when you want, of course inside the law. It’s the freedom there is, you can do exactly what you want when you want, there is nobody judging you 63 feeling of freedom vildana thinking its weird the first thing you get in the morning is an Irish Coffee”

“The future doesn’t matter, so in a way there is no one who judges you, it can’t have recklessness in any consequences for you unless you do something that’s illegal then there isn’t 64 temporality vildana anything that can have consequences for you at Roskilde” “It’s like what happens at Roskilde is just... Roskilde. There aren’t any of your friends who come over later and say “listen that was too much”, obviously you shouldn’t do something illegal, of course if someone I know raped someone I would judge him or her the rest of their life because you don’t do that, it’s not cool even when you’re at Roskilde, or if they hit someone you know, but to throw up four 65 behavioral change vildana times in a day, then you do that and just continue”

66 collective behavior vildana “You take care of each other and you are in it together” “I’m really happy that I live with Line and that she was there, I think that if you come home alone... it must be terrible. Just lying at home knowing there’s a whole year left, you miss everything, you’re just tired and happy to be home but miss everyone and everything. It must be hard to be alone when you get home, I don’t think anyone should be. You just want to go back to the freedom where you have no responsibilities. You don’t even have to shower. That is a pretty big thing in our society that you are clean (soigneret). It doesn’t matter. You brush your teeth for going home after the you, because they start feeling like frotté. But its not something you need to do, you 67 festival + cleanliness vildana don’t have to.” “I think people at festivals, especially this festival, are the most human you can get, you know. We are just human beings, and it takes away everything else. We are just here, we are present and... I don't know. I love humans. I think people are fascinating, exploration of and it's really nice to see that like raw side of them. Like very organic, very natural. 68 humanity canada Just being a human.” “There's a little bit of a difference, but the difference is when you are just in openness: Copenhagen you always have to make the first move to talk to someone and then copenhagen vs when you talk to them they are the nicest kindest, they wanna help you, they are like 69 roskilde canada really really beautiful humans. I find obviously that's like a big bubble term, because

4 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

there's always someone that's not gonna be like that, but like, here everyone's more open and like ehm, would come up to you just as much as you would come up to them. In Copenhagen you have to come up to them more than they can come up to you” “Okay say you are standing there with a cigarette before it's lit. Someone else comes with a lighter before you have to think that you have to light it. Or you are sitting in a chair and there is a nice ice cold beer out of reach and you are about to reach for it and then someone else gives you the beer. And then it's like, I didn't think this could 70 analogy of helping canada get any better and then THAT happened.”

71 festival dresscode absalon3 “People are dressed up as soon as they get down here.”

72 festival dresscode absalon3 “There was more nudity. We have become modest. I miss that” “Everybody is so much more concerned about how you look like (at festival in Poland), whereas here I don’t see people really caring about that at all. it’s more 73 festival dresscode sally about comfort.. comfortable.” RF vs CPH: “I think that people are more chilled out. First of all they are not so much concerned how they look like. In the center in Copenhagen you have more, definitely all in black and just very nonchalant but at the same time very elegant. 74 behavioral change sally Most of them (at RF) are very drunk. I think they are more at ease”

“I’ve seen certain people act in a different way than I would have seen them in 75 behavioral change jonas Copenhagen”

“You don’t really have to be anything and you don’t really feel that anybody’s inclusive state of judging you, you can just walk in a giraffe costume you know and everybody is like 76 mind sally sort of welcome.” “It is always fun to be around when everybody is around having fun, number one. Two, I think the Danes do festivals really, really well. Everybody is smiling, everybody is laughing a lot and dancing a lot, and from what I can tell, really good 77 reasons to go marlene fans of music” “I think definitely… a lot of people will come to festivals like this to escape for a week. I know a lot of people who look forward to this festival all year round, so that they can really let themselves be free and relax with they friends… I find that I’m not necessarily looking at it as an escape, but I love the collective aspect of festivals, and I think that it’s really valuable for people to have time away from their regular 78 escapism marlene routine lives and come together and celebrate music”

79 freedom of expression marlene “Here also I love that people have permission to be who they wanna be.” “I think it’s really healthy for many to get away and get away from having so much focus on computer and phone and all those kinds of things. I think it’s very healthy escape from social that down here you are more with people and have less focus on social media than at 80 media mie home”

“I think everyone are happy and it’s like being on a mini-vacation. A hard drinking 81 vacation feeling volunteer1 mini-vacation”

“There are less rules and everybody let go of their inhibitions, it’s a little like 82 stand alone society volunteer2 Christiania, its own society”

“Everyone shows up with the same mind-set, everyone wants the same. They want to 83 homogeneic mindset volunteer1 drink, they want to go to concerts”

“Yes, an example is when someone falls, ten people will come and you just fly up. 84 concert behavior Rasmus You don’t just let him lie, you stop each other – get him up.” “People are more easy minded (at Roskilde Festival), everything becomes a little easier and more fun, you become better friends and get closer. Of course this could have something to do with that you never get sober and never really sleep so much, but you become more open – also to strangers. Especially our group, I don’t think we are all that open, not that we are completely closed off but we’re not as prone to just meeting someone and saying “well now we just party with you”, there I can feel that 85 behavioral change vildana people think that now we’re here. It isn’t just us that is a group, everybody at

5 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Roskilde are in the same boat”

POST ROSKILDE 87 MINDSET

change of state of “You’ll come back with a different state of mind because you have been removed 88 mind marlene from your regular routine” “I think that what I experience ,what I see at Roskilde when I come back from Roskilde is still there and especially in the months after. The lifestyle about the camp-life where people let themselves go and throw about they inhibitions is still 89 behavioral change thomas very much present in the streets of Copenhagen in the summer months” “I’m really happy that I live with Line and that she was there, I think that if you come home alone... it must be terrible. Just lying at home knowing there’s a whole year left, you miss everything, you’re just tired and happy to be home but miss everyone and everything. It must be hard to be alone when you get home, I don’t think anyone should be. You just want to go back to the freedom where you have no responsibilities. You don’t even have to shower. That is a pretty big thing in our society that you are clean (soigneret). It doesn’t matter. You brush your teeth for going home after the you, because they start feeling like frotté. But its not something you need to do, you 90 festival + cleanliness vildana don’t have to.”

“I can understand that people feel (like in a bubble), and I can also be drawn to it, but Awareness of I still walk around with a bundle of sense that I have to do something the week after 91 temporality Rune or two weeks or three weeks, so I never quite get away” CONCERT 93 BEHAVIOR “The cool thing about Roskilde is that it is a loyal audience to the artists as well. I have never been to another festival or other concerts where the support and response for the artists on stage is so good. It can also be felt on the artist performing, and I think thats great about Roskilde, for example The XX or Solange who is like wow thank you and are overwhelmed by the response and you’re like yes you’re a part of this and you are a part of creating this experience together because everyone gives so 94 Audience loyalty Mari much of themselves “You get some good visuals.. I hadn’t thought that when we were standing at the Mourning Area at Foo Fighters when all these girls had to pee, the way they were holding on to the trees when they were peeing. And still she manages to fall over and 95 concert behavior absalon3 into the piss” “I was really standing there and there was a moment when I closed my eyes and just listened to the music and I felt very much in my own bubble just enjoying the music, 96 concert behavior marlene and at the same time I knew everyone around me was at the same space” LIFE AT THE FESTIVAL (WHAT 98 DO YOU DO?) “There’s just a lot of walking around and visiting the different spots that was not necessarily about music but they have other entertainment acts… Well that was not necessarily on the festival square, but like going to the camp-site just hanging out 99 daily activities jonas with people who are camping there... They make up their own games” “I have arrived. – that’s what everyone talks about when you lie in the queue, when you fold out your chair and open your first beer and you’re like “all my things are First moments at the here, now I’m here. I am going to be here for a week!” and there is nothing outside 100 festival Rasmus this.” Go to Roskilde because “its the whole vibe and you don’t want to sit in Copenhagen while everybody is at Roskilde and feel outside and abandoned. Its just everything encompassing it that makes you want to be there. Its difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but its just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re 101 Fear of missing out Mari there that you ARE there. I am a part of this” “Because the weather was really bad we ended up in Art City where there were all kinds of talks, which I thought was really cool. I also saw the naked race for the first time this year. That is an experience. It is so absurd, its 30 people running around 102 More than concert Vildana naked, and first they need to walk the round. It was so crazy. But I think I need to be

6 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

better at discovering the things that happen around and say okay I would really like to have a pentaque tournament, its fun and you forget a bit how hangover you are and you can play a bit petanque” SOCIAL ASPECTS - BEING PART OF 105 SOCIAL CIRCLE 107 CAMP AS A HOME “I don’t think I would – like that guy Ludwig we met who was all alone, I don’t think I would do that.” I think its very good for me at Roskilde to have the safe base in your camp that you can always come back to and know that there will be someone there or someone you can call lige – like the feeling of home. You can easily go and do some stuff. This year there were many we knew that were at the festival outside our camp, and it is really cozy, but that is not in actuality the most important for me. I don’t really care about others, but it is important for me to have a camp, a home base, where you can come and relax and just sit and be with people you know. It can be very draining to all the time run around and meet new people just to have Importance of someone to be with. I think you can feel a little lonely. The social aspect is definitely 108 friends/social aspect Mari important to have something to hold onto in some way.” “(camping) is definitely a factor in creating the “we are all here together, the toilets stink for everyone and the baths are equally cold, the food is just as gross, everyone 109 Camp importance Mari is hungover, and okay let’s have some fun tonight.” “I was in different camps this year, and I think it was cool to see that there are different ways to be at Roskilde. For example Anna who is 15 who is at Roskilde for the first time is at Roskilde in a completely different way than our camp which is a bit older, and then Lines camp is just a step over and also completely different. I 110 various campforms vildana think its great there is room for everyone and to do it on your own premises.” “(Anna’s camp) was just all the way down, and it was their first time and for them everything was just wild and they had fun, and for them it probably had just as much to say that they had been to Roskilde. They were lying in the queue from Friday afternoon and I think they found out they didn’t have to because they got a shitty spot and you know, they were just cold and everything sucked and they didn’t have 111 curling parents who wanted to come and help them out.” “Lines camp has been there many years so they had all kinds of traditions and I think that was really great. They are people that come from all over, all different and at the same time its Roskilde that binds them together in some way. Its funny that there is one who works for Mærsk, Line works for Danske Bank, there’s an accountant and a lawyer, but at Roskilde nobody has had a shower for four days and everyone wears 112 rubber boots.” “I felt, especially this year where I travelled so much back and forth, like stranger every time I was in Copenhagen. I felt very much like an outsider in Copenhagen, even though you wear normal – I was wearing work attire and going to work, these people didn’t know I had been to Roskilde, I was thinking “you don’t know there is something else – and that is where I live now, it is my home.” So I didn’t feel home when home. You are just passing through to pick up some things before going home Home outside the to Roskilde. I feels very much like that, it becomes very strange. “I’m just here 113 home Mari because I have to be here, but I live in a tent right now, it is my home.” “I think the great thing about Roskilde is that you can always find someone in the camp, and if there isn’t anyone then you can just go home and sit down and relax. You just live there. You have your things with you and you’re just there. I think 114 the camp as a home vildana that’s really nice”

Tradition of friend Going to Roskilde Festival has become a tradition – to go with all your friends. “I 115 group Lukas would not go alone.”

116 Importance of friends Mari It is important that there are friends or someone you know at the festival 117 TILHØRSFORHOLD OG MEDEJERSKAB - BELONGING TO ROSKILDE 118 COMMUNITY

7 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“I feel you know the place so well now. A home outside the home. It’s exciting to see what they’ve changed, if they’ve moved things around. Yes, I have a 119 sense of belonging Lukas tilhørsforhold to Roskilde.” “We are proud of this (Roskilde). Having worked here many years and being able to keep this train running. You feel more responsible for the festival in some way. You 120 roskilde ambassador absalon1 want to be a good ambassador.” “I feel part of it, cause you don't have to act out. You just have to be here! To be a part of it, you don't have to act in a certain way to be a part of it, you just have to be here and then, yeah, everybody just, like everybody they have fun. You don't have to 121 festival behavior jonas act in a certain way.” “I have never tried not working, I feel you contribute with something, then you are a 122 volunteering volunteer2 part of it”

“As long as you are here, you are a part of it. Also those who just buy tickets and are 123 being part of it volunteer1 here all days” Go to Roskilde because “its the whole vibe and you don’t want to sit in Copenhagen while everybody is at Roskilde and feel outside and abandoned. Its just everything encompassing it that makes you want to be there. Its difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but its just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re 124 Fear of missing out Mari there that you ARE there. I am a part of this”

inclusive state of 125 mind volunteer2 “There is room for everyone at Roskilde” UNWRITTEN RULES AND 128 FREEDOMS “There are some unwritten rules that all place upon themselves and uphold and then you go that far but not further, because in a way weird you have understood on the 129 Ubwritten rules Mari social dynamic that it is not okay.”

“You have to learn the unwritten Roskilde rules, such as “a chair that has been left, 130 Unwritten rules Mari that is everyone’s chair”.” (rape at Roskilde Festival): “you almost feel, this is really bad to say, but that it is even worse raping someone at Roskilde Festival than it would have been in Copenhagen because then you haven’t understood what we are doing, you haven’t understood why you are here. You break it all. You are an outsider. It is so horrific. It is more brutal in some way. I have never seen violence at Roskilde. I have never experience something violent or threatening even though I have been beaten around 131 Rape Mari in a moshpit at Vince Staples (2016)”

132 Hard boundaries Mari “There is a boundary and immediately when you cross the line the group will say it.”

The elders teach the others how to behave at concerts: “it is okay up to this, but not 133 Unwritten rules Mari further.” “L is the worst area. When I came down with my stuff in your tent during the Saturday, I’m just standing there talking, people have already started going stealing and then suddenly someone has started rummaging in our tent and were just standing there “hello, we’re right here? Can’t you wait with going through our tent until 134 festival behavior Rasmus we’ve left?” “I’m really happy that I live with Line and that she was there, I think that if you come home alone... it must be terrible. Just lying at home knowing there’s a whole year left, you miss everything, you’re just tired and happy to be home but miss everyone and everything. It must be hard to be alone when you get home, I don’t think anyone should be. You just want to go back to the freedom where you have no responsibilities. You don’t even have to shower. That is a pretty big thing in our society that you are clean (soigneret). It doesn’t matter. You brush your teeth for going home after the you, because they start feeling like frotté. But its not something you need to do, you 135 festival + cleanliness vildana don’t have to.”

“Maybe its a place where you can make some new rules for yourself, both personally 136 Behavioral change Rune and socially, and that can give a lovely little feeling of freedom”

8 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“I think that why it can be so wild and free in a way is because, I don’t know how Roskilde does it, but perhaps because it is an old festival with traditions that are passed on to future generations. It is the festivalgoers themselves who pass on the traditions to each other. Roskilde builds up around it for sure, and it gets pretty wild 137 Unwritten rules Mari before they engage.” “It is so strange, so weird how it can be that way but I think that at Roskilde everyone has understood or learned from someone those unwritten rules about how to behave, because if you cross the line you also quickly get told “hey – that’s too far, that’s not ok.” A good example is when we were at Kendrick Lamar (2016) and the girl sat down to pee right there and people were like no that is not okay and people just pulled away and were like “what the fuck are you doing”, it was a total shame circle. But really, why is it not okay to pee there but okay to pee at the fence? There are these unwritten rules and you get a fast response from the group if you don’t behave in accordance to those rules. Or if you are standing and moshing in a place where you can’t mosh, people will walk away from you and the community 138 disappears from you.” 139 BARRIERS TO 140 ENTRY 141 MONETARY 142 BARRIERS

“First time I play (at Roskilde) was in 2008, and in some way once you’ve played Attitude towards there it can be really difficult to spend money on something that feels like a relation 143 ticket Rune to work, so I have only been when I have gotten a ticket or performed” 144 “It becomes very connected to work in my head”

Attitude towards “A ticket for 2000kr is so completely insane, it is just so expensive. Maybe I could 145 ticket cost Rune consider using that money to go and travel” “I always get to go to a festival because I have to play so often, so its a need that 146 usually is covered” “I have changed! The festival has also changed. Of course it has. My first ticket cost 147 ticket price absalon1 610kr. 94’ the first year” “Yes (was there in 93’). It cost 510 I remember. It was crazy that it rose with 100kr 148 ticket price absalon2 in a year.”

“You can’t always afford to go all the places you want to go.” It is a priority to go to 149 Price and priority Lukas Roskilde. “I don’t save up (for Roskilde), I use my vacation money. Burn them when they 150 Expenses Lukas come.” “If you would have been back in Copenhagen and planning a concert and paying 300kr just to go for that one night, it’s been the same level of entertainment, that you 151 entertainment level jonas just go from concert to concert” 152 153 PREPARATION 154 BARRIERS

155 Camp planning Lukas “The day before (Roskilde Festival opens), we spend on planning the camp.”

Practical Spending a lot of time planning: “with a sound system to buy and arranging who arrangements should spend money on what and buy pavilions and transfer money to people. Many 156 beforehand Rasmus practical things to plan it, and who should lie in the queue and which area to lie in” Important where to camp: “We were straight in L, which we will never do again. L was crazy popular so by East we were three who came in Friday morning and were there. Two days in the queue, what won’t you do for that. Just to have a place to lie, and I was never in that camp. If there are many together in the camp in the queue, 157 Entering the festival Rasmus then its fun, but if its only to people and you have to get a place for thirteen, then its

9 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

just a pulse of 180 because you are so stressed over guarding such a big area”

“I wasn’t really involved in the planning, but we have done it before and are a part of a pretty routine group, and then its done pretty quickly. I think the first year we went there was much more planning and more back and forth about who should be in the 158 camp planning Mari camp etc.” 159 160 INTERNAL PHYSICAL 161 BARRIERS (networking): “There are more people (at Roskilde) you can talk to, they are all in the same place. Apart from that they are more open because there is a artist community which is pretty cool and also pretty lame, but makes it easier for people 162 Networking Rune to talk.” “Because there are so many people together in one place, it is as if the artists keep 163 together, that’s why it’s a easier place for me to network” “For me the whole camp life is more fun than the actual concerts, and to be honest, I think its great to listen to good music and its nice, but for me concerts can be overwhelming because I’m so small and because you get squashed and pressured from all sides, so I actually think that everything in between is so much better. Of course its great when you get to a concert and sit on someone’s shoulders because then you can see something and experience it all, but its not great to be carried out of camp life vs music the pit because you get to a place where you are scared and think “this is when I die.” 164 concerts vildana But that only has something to do with my height.”

“In a way it reaches further. Which is good. It is the largest festival so it has to be the 165 scope of festival absalon1 broadest. I don’t see how something can be too broad.” 166 COST OF LIVING 167 STANDARD

168 cleanliness vildana “Yes, there’s a line to the toilets and people pee everywhere, but that’s how it is”

Time aspect of daily Days are not the same in that it takes time to do daily activities (e.g. eating 169 activities Lukas breakfast/brushing teeth) as it is not situated in the home. “Roskilde is not utopian in itself because there are so many things that are not great. Like waking up in the tent and you haven’t slept. You haven’t slept very well and you have to get up and take a dump. You have to get these things done, these basic needs covered and then you can begin to have a good time. Then there’s the whole negative aspect of start-up period to start the day that isn’t very utopian. So maybe its stages where you 170 roskilde axel enter and forget time and space.” “I have been here many years. It becomes less magical every year. Probably because audience I’m getting older, probably because the festival gets older but attracts younger. I 171 development absalon1 think that at some point I will be skipped, thrown overboard or whatever its called.” “I feel you get a bit away from the magic of the morning because you don’t.. You wake up at home. This year we’re sleeping at home, it’s also the first time. Then you don’t sit and drink beer from the morning and try to pick up the pieces from 172 sleeping at home absalon3 yesterday”

drinking in the “It makes less sense the older you get. Sitting down there and drinking apple wine 173 morning absalon1 from the morning.” 174 PROXIMITY TO THE OTHER 175 WORLD

“Roskilde is easy because it’s so close and you shouldn’t underestimate that. It sucks 176 proximity to home vildana to go home Saturday but its also easy.” 177 going home volunteer1 “I have considered (going home) today… but it’s just to go home to a real bed and

10 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

take a bath. Dry clothes because it’s raining. If it had been sunny all week… then it wouldn’t have mattered” “I felt, especially this year where I travelled so much back and forth, like stranger every time I was in Copenhagen. I felt very much like an outsider in Copenhagen, even though you wear normal – I was wearing work attire and going to work, these people didn’t know I had been to Roskilde, I was thinking “you don’t know there is something else – and that is where I live now, it is my home.” So I didn’t feel home when home. You are just passing through to pick up some things before going home Home outside the to Roskilde. I feels very much like that, it becomes very strange. “I’m just here 178 home Mari because I have to be here, but I live in a tent right now, it is my home.” 181 EXPLORATION 182 THE SURPRISE 183 ASPECT “The best thing about Roskilde is when you just walk around and are like “what’s going on here?” Like when we were at the morning party and just came in and are like oh okay I’ll join and people are like join! That is exactly all the things that make 184 Element of surprise Mari it so great” “My best concert experiences, except for a few, has been bands you didn’t know so well, that you were dragged along to. Or to be able to drag someone alone, for example last year at Kakkmaddafakka which was really fun and a concert I wanted to see, but also to be able to bring someone and they’re also like” wow, this is amazing” and you’re like “yes! I told you so! Its really nice!” and be able to share the music and “you have to what this. You have to see this concert” its almost one of the best things about Roskilde, either to be able to come to a concert you don’t know or be allowed to bring someone and show them – and that they also think its great. Discovering and Those hyped concerts you have been looking forward to for a long time, its really sharing music great but you’ve anticipated it for so long. Its more when you get the “wow okay I 185 experiences Mari didn’t expect this” – that is the very best when you’re at a festival”

variety in music “The cool thing about Roskilde is that you become exposed to so much different 186 programming vildana music”

“I think Roskilde is best when you haven’t planned what was supposed to happen 187 element of surprise absalon3 and you bump into something and you are in the now in a way you hadn’t predicted.” Exploring the music program: “Other years I have been more prepared than I have this year, spent time going through the program a seeing who would play. It is an important part of it, but not the most important. I feel that always in some way or another, like this year where there was a program you maybe didn’t know that well, you had a trust in Roskilde that even though I don’t know it, it probably is a really good act. You trust those who do the booking and trust the piece of work they do, Trust in music that there will be some great concerts and then rather have that mindset and listen to 188 booking Mari something. But for me it definitely becomes real when you get the program in hand.”

Discovering new 189 music Lukas Lukas has stopped by a concert and gone in without knowing it MORE THAN 192 MUSIC “This year at Roskilde I discovered how much there is apart from the music and how much there is around. Bo and I were at Stage Dining and it was a genius concept and 193 more than concerts vildana I think I have to dig that much more, what happens all around” “Because the weather was really bad we ended up in Art City where there were all kinds of talks, which I thought was really cool. I also saw the naked race for the first time this year. That is an experience. It is so absurd, its 30 people running around naked, and first they need to walk the round. It was so crazy. But I think I need to be better at discovering the things that happen around and say okay I would really like to have a pentaque tournament, its fun and you forget a bit how hangover you are 194 more than concerts vildana and you can play a bit petanque” “I saw...a small theatre performance when I was walking by, I was just checking out what’s going on and there were 5 guys sitting and there were just doing like a gig. I 195 cultural experiences sally didn’t stay for too long, but some cultural stuff’s going on too”

11 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

FOLLOW THE KNOWN (LACK OF 198 EXPLORATION) “I listen a lot to a Spotify playlist, if there is a number or two I like I consider going to the concert. But I’m not locked in, if you say you want to go to something, I’ll try 199 determining choice vildana and go listen to it.”

Exploration (of music 200 program) Lukas “I am sadly not so explorative and curious, because I’m lazy and high.”

Exploration (of 201 headliner) Lukas “If there’s a headliner you don’t know) of course I’ll go take a look.”

Researching the 202 program Lukas “(When the names get announced) I listen to it, but not a lot.” “What should I see? I don’t know, I look at the program and se what I want to see. I don’t spend so much time on it, I just look it through. I don’t listen to any bands I 203 Music priority Lukas don’t know, maybe I should.” 204 205

206 THE ISLAND “In a utopia everything forms a higher meaning. This can only work because you have a civilian situation behind you. So now we leave it all behind and go out and let it loose. It wouldn’t be someone you wanted to do much longer than those four 207 being a utopia thomas days.” “I think no matter what you do and your attitude towards Roskilde you will come close to the core. You will never completely reach it, whether you do it the one way 208 the core of roskilde thomas or another doesn’t matter, it’s about what makes sense for you in the situation” “In a way there are more offers. It is easier to do something, you can shop around, but that’s also how it should be. This is an island. It’s an island that disappears again when we leave. We’ve been here and even though we didn’t get the experience we thought we were going to have, I think we are able to convince ourselves that it was 209 analogy of island absalon1 in some way better than it was. We need this vent” 210

211 AUDIENCE 212 DEVELOPMENT “I feel you get a bit away from the magic of the morning because you don’t.. You wake up at home. This year we’re sleeping at home, it’s also the first time. Then you don’t sit and drink beer from the morning and try to pick up the pieces from 213 sleeping at home absalon3 yesterday”

drinking in the “It makes less sense the older you get. Sitting down there and drinking apple wine 214 morning absalon1 from the morning.” “I think also its your own approach to it. Now we dress ourselves comfortably. Rain gear, we hadn’t thought of that the first ten years. Why the hell should we bring 215 festival dresscode absalon1 raingear.” 216 mindset absalon3 “I don’t think it was more magical ten years ago. I just think we were younger” 217 experience absalon1 “The fewer times you have experienced it the more magical it was earlier of course.” “Don’t you think that those who come now and are seventeen have just as much of a 218 experience absalon2 high as we did when we were 17”

“There were more funny hats in the ironic 90s. It was more ridiculous. You could see 219 festival dresscode absalon1 more big groups wearing turkey costumes.”

220 festival dresscode absalon3 “There was more nudity. We have become modest. I miss that”

12 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“We are meant to be swung off at some point. Then we start spending our money on audience insurances and other things and others still want to go out and spend their money 221 development absalon1 here” “I have been here many years. It becomes less magical every year. Probably because Audience I’m getting older, probably because the festival gets older but attracts younger. I think 222 development Absalon1 that at some point I will be skipped, thrown overboard or whatever its called.” “This is only my second year at Roskilde and I’m definitely going next year and the whole week next year, but I have had to navigate in it and figure out what it really 223 navigating the festival vildana was – and I have to go there on my on premises.” 224 225 226 EVOLUTION OF 227 FESTIVAL “It has definitely evolved into the better. In many ways, there are more order in things and you have the possibility to lie in a quiet camp. Some people it attracts being comfortable, some is attracted to doing something else, and there are 228 festival evolution absalon1 possibilities.”

“The music has become different. There is a lot of pop on Orange. The whole goth variety in music segment which was a lot earlier is also gone. Its hard to get a ride with a heavy- 229 programming absalon3 rocker.” 230 survival absalon2 “There was a bit more survival in it (the festival) in some way”

variety in music “They (the music bookers) play their music like in some way they tried to meet us 231 programming absalon1 back then” “(Roskilde’s) focus has moved from being more music-oriented to being more focused on the camp-life. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but a little episode today underlines my perception of it - that my youngest niece of 17, her camp packed together and went home. They had had enough. For them it wasn’t about the music, it was about the camp. In that way I think something that happened, that it’s more about being out there for many people. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the way it’s 232 warm-up days thomas changed.” 233

234 VALUE OF THE 235 FESTIVAL “You go down here to get something. You get something here and if you haven’t gotten it then you’ve been bad at being at a festival. Then it is your own fault. Good obtaining indefinable experiences. And they are put up so that we can amass all the time when we just 236 value absalon1 have our wristbands. That’s cool. So in a way there is more choice on the shelves.”

“I’ve always wanted to be here. I think I was 15 when I first heard about the festival, 237 dream come true jonas when I was in high school, and I’ve always wanted to come here” “Some people need the escape. they really come here and they’re trying to get away 238 escapism marlene from something else”

alternative “It’s not an escape, it’s just another experience to take advantage of and savour while 239 experiences marlene it’s happening”

“I’m here because it’s cozy and it’s nice to have a camp with all your friends and you 240 reasons to go mie can have fun for many days and apart from that see a lot of music”

241 summer highlight thomas “It’s the highlight of the summer in Denmark”

“It (Roskilde) is an educational journey and people are reminded what they should an educational focus on in life. They should of course focus on some other things also but here is 242 journey thomas something special you should try to bring home. And I feel that people do.”

13 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

243 roskilde feeling thomas “It is very much the feeling that defines Roskilde Festival” Go to Roskilde because “its the whole vibe and you don’t want to sit in Copenhagen while everybody is at Roskilde and feel outside and abandoned. Its just everything encompassing it that makes you want to be there. Its difficult to explain really because when you’re there you just walk around and drink lots of beer and chill, but its just... I don’t know. You just have a crazy good feeling in your body when you’re 244 Fear of missing out Mari there that you ARE there. I am a part of this” “You don’t want to be the inconsequential (nobody) person so you would rather be there You don’t care at all about all the people who are not at Roskilde. Its the whole package that is just different. You can’t put it in words, but I didn’t have the same feeling when I was at Northside that I was at a festival. I don’t think there are any other festivals in the world, when you’re at Roskilde you’re just on a festival... like 245 Fear of missing out Mari really.” “I was at Northside, and it sucked that you didn’t have a camp, that it was a day festival that opened at 13 and closed at 02. It sucked that between concerts you 246 roskilde vs northside vildana didn’t have a place to go.” “There was no point where you could just relax and enjoy that you were there. There 247 wasn’t the same vibe as in Roskilde of “now we’re in this together”.” “That was how I felt about Northside, amputated. That it was a bit weird. It was just 248 Grøn Koncert in more days” 249 visual style thomas “Roskilde has its own look and I like that a lot” “First and foremost this is cozy, you are a place with your friends and you’re just having a good time. It’s really about having a great as time as possible and how you can feel great and just enjoy as much as you can. If you talk about the utopia in it, how it becomes utopic, then I don’t know how to explain that concept, because it is so broad. There are many things that need to come together to get a utopic experience. Maybe at a concert experience you can feel it, where everything works together and you get a feeling of losing time and space and that’s where you enter the 250 Roskilde experience Axel utopian universe.” 251 AUDIENCE 252 DESCRIPTION

“I feel that there are so many people here… I just feel like everybody’s Danish, so I 253 attendance amount sally just had the feeling like half the people is here. It’s like everybody came here”

254 one-day ticket volunteer2 “One day.. whores”

“One day ticketers… They came and were completely (makes snobby gesture). 255 one-day ticket volunteer1 Walked with baby-wipes under their arm (laugh)” “(Bo) noticed that there were some on a day ticket and some were there all week, because you can see it on the clothes people wear, nobody thinks about how you look, its practical or what you woke up in. Then all the white sneakers show up... I even went home every day, but you know how it is and how it will look. I don’t want to wear my nice clothes down there, it gets fucking disgusting. I don’t even think I would wear white sneakers if the weather was good, there’s still pee everywhere. Some do it for fashion, but I imagine that there are some festivals that are more fashion than Roskilde is... but I don’t know. I think I’d like to experience some of the 256 one-day ticket vildana foreign festivals to see how it is.” 259 ROSKILDE'S 260 REPUTATION Exploring the music program: “Other years I have been more prepared than I have this year, spent time going through the program a seeing who would play. It is an important part of it, but not the most important. I feel that always in some way or another, like this year where there was a program you maybe didn’t know that well, you had a trust in Roskilde that even though I don’t know it, it probably is a really good act. You trust those who do the booking and trust the piece of work they do, Trust in music that there will be some great concerts and then rather have that mindset and listen to 261 booking Mari something. But for me it definitely becomes real when you get the program in hand.”

14 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“Generally I think that Roskilde is quite good at doing the conscious things to help society, or maybe I just think that’s the image they have. You always know they are 262 giving back to society volunteer1 doing something that is good for others” “I think no matter what you do and your attitude towards Roskilde you will come close to the core. You will never completely reach it, whether you do it the one way 263 the core of roskilde thomas or another doesn’t matter, it’s about what makes sense for you in the situation” 267

268 RF AS AN ESCAPE “I can understand that people feel (like in a bubble), and I can also be drawn to it, but Awareness of I still walk around with a bundle of sense that I have to do something the week after 269 temporality Rune or two weeks or three weeks, so I never quite get away” “I guess you always (think about time at home) because you have many things to do in regards to school and everything, here certainly in the warm-up period you don’t think so much about time, but in the music-days the only time you think about time is in relation to when you have to see some music. It’s a relaxation that you don’t 270 time value mie have to think about time. That’s also what makes it nice, that you escape that.” “I think definitely… a lot of people will come to festivals like this to escape for a week. I know a lot of people who look forward to this festival all year round, so that they can really let themselves be free and relax with they friends… I find that I’m not necessarily looking at it as an escape, but I love the collective aspect of festivals, and I think that it’s really valuable for people to have time away from their regular 271 escapism marlene routine lives and come together and celebrate music” “I think it’s really healthy for many to get away and get away from having so much focus on computer and phone and all those kinds of things. I think it’s very healthy escape from social that down here you are more with people and have less focus on social media than at 272 media mie home” “I lived in a pretty wild camp that definitely tried to escape... for example with 273 Escapism Rune alcohol and no sleep and drugs”

No contemplation of 274 outside Jonas “While I was here I didn't think of anything else than just having fun here. ” 275 276

277 TIMELINE OF 278 FESTIVAL “That someone could start it and you weren’t a part of it. I had actually though that the music days were enough for me, but I think that you can divide Roskilde into before the music and when the music is, because before the music its very easy and free and you can do what you want, when you want, you can dance a bit by one sound system, go back to your camp. Everyone is together and at the same time not. But when the music starts then comes a time aspect and stress factor into it because warm up vs. music there are things you have to do and place you want to be and perhaps people you 279 days vildana want to meet with.” “When you come here in the middle of the week maybe you can feel you haven’t experienced the warm-up days which are actually also a big part of the festival. Where it doesn’t really revolve about so much else than drinking a lot of beers and acting ridiculous. And then the second stage comes where the concerts start. I feel warm up vs. music good about it but I would liked to have one warm-up day. Just to experience it, then it 280 days Axel would be perfect. Come tuesday and get a cold one.”

Warmup vs. Music “The warm-up days are not especially important for me. At all. They are not 281 days: Importance Lukas important for me, but it seems they are for many others.” 282 Music days are important for me. “People have to do what they want to before they go out and listen to some music. I don’t know why it’s important for people but it seems like it’s important. Just relating to my own camp, there are some that go all in the first couple of days and 283 Partying Lukas then have to go home because they are too done (smadrede) becuase they’ve partied,

15 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

done drugs.. just too done later in the week, then they go home, two of my friends from the camp went home on the Thursday.”

PARTICIPANT OBSERVATION: CODING LEVEL 3

No. Meta-code (observer) Theme Quote

Audience Description Description of There’s young people with back-packs and rubber boots all over Copenhagen 2 Søren RF guests main station. Description of I observe how everyone working at this volunteer camping area are elder (50-60) 3 Søren volunteers and seem to be from some local community club or something. Description of 4 Søren volunteers All working there are in our age range (20-28) and the vibe is very chill. “My colleagues are all mature adults and are discussing normal office topics Working in the such as children, lunch and what they saw on TV. It is strange to be living and festival office: sleeping in the camping area and then walking ten minutes to get to a temporary Large contrast office located in the festival area where everyone are well rested and just 5 Emma to festival life dropped off their kids at school.” New use of things and 7 space Camping area - 8 Søren new use We put our tent up on what is normally the pitch for the football club I notice the sign that says “Roskilde Dyrskue” and remember that this is also the Space for grounds of a big famous farm fair of Denmark where, farmers show of their 9 Søren multiple uses animals and tractors and something like that. Description of working 11 at RF There’s a mixture of “serious” work vibe, cause my friend who has the stand Description of need to make money and cover his cost, but also an understanding that we are all atmosphere at at the festival, so all co-workers are semi-drunk and happy and all customers are 12 Søren work real drunk and happy.

13 Emma Backstage “Many of my colleagues from my daily professional life and partners from other

16 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

work / relax firms are there, and it has a distinct carefree but still professional work vibe, vibe where everybody is drinking rosé wine from glasses and looking nice, but are still wearing muddy boots and with a (designer) rain jacket draped over their shoulders.” Contrast backstage and “The vibe is distinctly more survival (festival office area red.) as there are huge office area muddy areas and people running around from concert to concert to make sure 14 Emma grounds they see everything they have to see.”

15 Søren friend as boss We go to find out where it is and say hi to our friend who employed us. Audience development 17 (hygeine) Development I want to take a shower, my friend doesn’t since we arrived yesterday. He says of hygiene “it’s a bit too luxurious to take one already”. I don’t care cause I’m getting older 18 Søren standards and I know it. observation of I observe how the whole football club and their locker-room shower facilities are shower perfect for the festival guest. This is only volunteer area so showers are free and 19 Søren facilities warm, and I buy shampoo from old ladies with local sponsored shirts. “Newbies” vs. “We have gone the road before and it is easy to see who are newbies and who 20 Emma repeat visitors have done the “journey” before.” Observed difference of 22 areas Specific areas 23 Søren as “safe” We cover the basics in our safe zone of the volunteer camping. “Many of my colleagues from my daily professional life and partners from other firms are there, and it has a distinct carefree but still professional work vibe, Backstage where everybody is drinking rosé wine from glasses and looking nice, but are work / relax still wearing muddy boots and with a (designer) rain jacket draped over their 24 Emma vibe shoulders.” Contrast backstage and “The vibe is distinctly more survival (festival office area red.) as there are huge office area muddy areas and people running around from concert to concert to make sure 25 Emma grounds they see everything they have to see.” description of The whole vibe in the volunteer camping is chill and silent and people are volunteer drinking morning coffee, small talking. There are small coffee stands and 26 Søren camping area breakfast stands with no queues. All is easy and I like it. “Later in the day I go with a couple of friends to the East section of the camping area, which has a dramatically different vibe to it than the West section where I live. Generally East seems to have younger people, and the music is harder Difference in (techno/hardstyle). People are very drunk at around 6pm, we go to a stage called 27 Emma camping areas East where DJs are playing, and about 200 people are dancing.” Backstage: “The atmosphere behind the stage is radically different from the surrounding Radically camping areas, it is clean and quiet, there are couches and nicely dressed young 28 Emma different area people lounging around drinking coffee or cocktails.” Music industry actors mix working, network and “It is a relaxing atmosphere combined with a work vibe, as most people in this 29 Emma relax. area work in the music business and are both on vacation while networking.” observation of I observe how the whole football club and their locker-room shower facilities are shower perfect for the festival guest. This is only volunteer area so showers are free and 30 Søren facilities warm, and I buy shampoo from old ladies with local sponsored shirts. Interpretation of 32 experience overwhelming Me and my friends leave after 3 minutes since it was freaking us out. We walk 33 Søren experience out back into the light, and feel like we were just in another world.

34 Søren Comment on We pass a big jellyfish made sculpture, which is supposed to put emphasis on the

17 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

art at the world oceans or something. It is a very random plastic monster, and a very little festival A4 sized sign to promote it. The thought is good, but I feel like a lot of people will never notice that it’s an environmental statement. Jellyfish sculpture: Lack We stop at a huge jellyfish which lights up in the dark, and discuss why it’s of there. We’re all sure there’s some political meaning but no one can quite figure 35 Emma understanding out what. I remember thinking that all the girls are probably looking at the guys male Involuntary member, while I know for sure that me and my friends have notices the girls tits 36 Søren thought through her bra. I notice how it’s nice that they are doing these talks in between people, but also audience that the people sitting around the center of the agora tent in fatboys are hungover 37 Søren engagement and don’t really care at all. Deviant behaviour 39 (drug acceptance) Acceptance of 40 Søren drugs We smoke a joint and when we meet them they are already super drunk. Camp and social 43 expectaitons My friends are talking bad about another guy from the camp who is also home. They comment on how he didn’t say anything or add with anything to the camp. Camp Never bought a case of beer or anything. They say it is not cool, to not contribute 44 Søren contribution to the camp both socially and financially. “My brother and I who are in the same camp are calling our friends and checking our shared Facebook page asking whether we got a good spot for our tents and 45 Emma Anticipation how the vibe is (“hvordan er stemning dernede?”) numerous times.”

48 Surprise aspect We enter a small room with a little stage where a guy and a girl are standing on the small stage very close to the crowd of maybe 15 people. They have only Description of underwear on and theres water pouring from the ceiling so they are wet and you 49 Søren performance can see through their underway. Klub RÅ = “The concert was not announced and I feel like me and the others with me in this unique room are experiencing something very special. I will definitely not forget this 50 Emma experience moment, it’s way too random and intimate and surprising at the same time.” More than concert There’s dance lesson being done by an instructor, and I remember thinking that 51 Søren experiences there’s no limits to what kind of stuff taking place here.

53 Behaviour tendencies Sharing 54 Søren behavior We offer them a glass of wine from our wine carton and leave again.

55

56 Daily life We drink a lot of free coffee and play backgammon and read the Roskilde 57 Søren Daily activities newspaper. Repeat camp “The routine started from yesterday is repeated, with drinking beers in the camp, 58 Emma behaviour listening to music and talking with friends.” Repeat camp “Once back in our camp I see that in the last couple of hours nothing has 59 Emma behaviour changed and my camp are still playing beer bowling and listening to music.” Festival temporality (get full value of the 61 festival) “It’s the last day of the festival, and I’m starting to feel a little panicked over the fact that tomorrow I have to go home and there’s a whole year till next time. Fear of having I don’t quite feel like I’ve experienced enough and been around the whole area, 62 Emma missed out what if there’s something I’m missing?”

18 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“Sitting on the train is a weird feeling, on one hand you just want to go home and Ambivalence sleep forever, on the other you don’t want to leave and try to postpone leaving 63 Emma in leaving the grounds for as long as possible.” It might be the best concerts, but in reality a lot of us wants to go home. I Staying vs. remember thinking, that there’s a whole year before being in this setting again, 64 Søren leaving so I should stay for the night. Monetary barrier to 66 entry Søren price We arrive with our tent to the volunteer camping, 200 kr camping for volunteers, 67 description which is at a football club next to the festival grounds. time as 68 Søren payment We have paid our dues now and have three days of festival for free from now on.

70 Aim of festival We laugh and talk about how we have just arrived and are fresh and ready to be 71 Søren aim of festival destroyed like them. Maslow's pyramid My friend and I keep using Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid to tell our 72 Søren reference current state of mind! Pattern of behavour in 74 groups Later we are laughing at the people who are really fucked up and just want fries. food pattern I observer how there’s movement of people who are hungry following the end of 75 Søren change each concerts. They move from taking the interesting food to only wanting fries. In and out of the 77 festival They explain how a guy from the camp had to go home, cause he was really sick. camp-members Really sick, and they thought it was meningitis. They talk about him as a fallen 78 Søren leaving soldier, who didn’t survive the battle. “It’s raining outside, so during the afternoon we decide to go back to Copenhagen for a couple of hours to get some warm and dry clothes and come Home and back back to see concerts later in the day. Once I get home to my apartment I take a 79 Emma in one day hot shower and fall into a deep sleep.” Value of entering other 81 spaces Superiority feeling with “...we leave and return to our camp I suddenly feel a sense of superiority as the 82 Emma backstage pass people surrounding do not have access to this oasis in the middle of the chaos.” Mindset diffuculties (lack of full 84 immersion) Lack of immersion / “I am frustrated and upset over the fact that my work is disturbing me at immersion by Roskilde as it feels as if I cannot completely immerse myself into the experience 85 Emma friends like my friends in my camp who are acting like there is no outside world.” Lack of immersion / immersion by “I am jealous of them (her friends, red.) and the freedom they have to disregard 86 Emma friends everything outside.”

19 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

BOOKER INTERVIEWS: CODING LEVEL 3

No. Meta-code (theme) Respondent Quote

Creating suprise aspect “We know that a lot of people come to Roskilde Festival to listen to the weekend but in 5 years they remember Elza Soareas and not the weekend. We present 7 Surprise aspect Peter them for something they didn’t know they liked” “When you go to Roskilde we want that you experience some big names, that you know or that can gather a lot of people and you can be in front of Orange Stage and have a feeling of being part of this community. But at the same time you can go somewhere and see some Korean throat-orchestra, that Peter has discovered on a travel to Korea or something. This is where you think, if they were playing in Copenhagen you would never go and see them, but because you are at Roskilde Intention of surprise and you pass the Gloria stage and it’s 2 AM and you’ve had those 2 pints, then 8 and discovery Stefan you think it’s the best thing in the whole world” It is the concept of going to Roskilde and get killed by some Iranian punk or Intention of surprise something bloody. It is the best feeling in the whole world. And it is that feeling 9 and discovery Stefan that we still make an effort to have (at the festival, red.)” “We have a symphony orchestra that is going to play at Arena It is DR3’s 10 Creating unique events Thomas orchestra, which is a very special thing” “And we have done the same with Emil Stabil. It’s going to be completely crazy. There’s gonna be all kinds (of artists joining the concert, red.), Tommy Cash and Lily Kleine and all kinds of power on his show. So many of the Danish would Roskilde creates unique love to do something special and we encourage them to have an angle that makes 11 shows Stefan it unique without being too crazy and not making sense” “They don’t think that long ahead and many overseas artists, this has been the case with Brazil and Colombian artists, they have had subsidies when sending 10 Dealing with two mand fra Brazil to Europe… when it comes to third world countries, also fourth different worlds when world and other world, poorer world, they don’t have the same tempo. There an 12 booking third world Peter artist may know (only, red). a month in advance that they have a tour in Europe.” Yes there’s one called folk / singer-song-writer and then one called electronic and then one called “world” and “hip hop / urban” and then another one we call “rock” and one called “indie” and one called “alternativ”. Then there’s one called 13 Diversity in music Stefan “metal” and one called “pop”

14 Roskilde as influencer “We just have a good reputation abroad I think. And this also at the agents. And then I think it plays a part, and I think that the labels can feel it, that we are a part of “moving” something.” Father John Misty f.eks. ikke. Han spillede det første job og så bagefter så lavede han 3, 4 store VEGA shows ikke. Det er jo kæmpe stort. Roskilde creates “Father John Misty, for example. He played the first gig (at Roskilde, red.) and 15 tendencies and demand Stefan then he did 3, 4 VEGA shows, right. That’s huge” Roskilde educate on the “…Roskilde festival have a huge resonsibility in creating that platform (for the 16 Danish music scene Thomas small artist, red.) and I think it is important to keep it that way” And I think that it is a thing (booking more female artist) that we have taken up and we also let the media know. That it is actually something we have done this Developing trend of year. It is a big thing and it will definitely have an effect in 2-3 years. Then there 17 female artists Thomas will be much more of them (women). “... it has actually happened that Roskilde Festival has become a very very important festival, for all this music and artists which goes under the concept A window for world “world music”, because we have a good audience, we have the right scenes, we 18 music Peter have an amazing production … we are a window”

20 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

“One of the important reasons that we do this (book world music, red.) is that we are a charity organization and if you want to save the turks from themselves and Charity agenda through their troubles you have to present their own music, metaphorically speaking 19 music Peter right.” “We have some acts that people never heard of that suddenly explode (in 20 Surprise aspect Thomas popularity red.)” We can sense on the labels, that the fact that we book them can be a part of Roskilde as influence boosting the history of Future Islands, which means that they actually sell more 21 on small artist's career Stefan records in Denmark” In the beginning of the new year we start discussing tendencies we want to follow. 3-4 , 2-3 years ago this psyke thing was very popular, like Tame Impala and so on. There was a tendency that many also in Denmark worked within this psyke univers. That was maybe a genre we wanted to follow and right now it is Roskilde depicting this like urban indie thing going on that we are trying to fit into the program this 22 music trends Stefan year”

23

24

25

26

27 Audince description “We are trying to develop the festival and I think if you go back in our program that you can see there is a certain development of the program of Roskilde Festival. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to keep the audience type that we do, because what is actually amazing, which is something a lot of festivals are struggling with, is that we actually manage to renew our audience. The average Following the time: for the audience has always been between 23 and 24 years old and it still is. That Keeping young is actually quite impressive. Most festivals has a tendency that the audience grow 28 audience Peter old with the festival.” My stomach feeling is that our audience is very different than at a lot of other festivals. Both because people are living there for a week and it is a younger audience that at other festivals. We often get feedback from artists who say that it was the best job on the tour because people are so much “on” when they are at 29 Audience behaviour Stefan Roskilde”

21 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

FIELD DIARIES / PARTICIPANT OBSERVATION

Participant Observation: Søren Field Diary

Wednesday 28/6 Me and my friend are taking the train to Roskilde in the afternoon. There’s young people with back-packs and rubber boots all over Copenhagen main station. We arrive with our tent to the volunteer camping, 200 kr camping for volunteers, which is at a football club next to the festival grounds. I observe how everyone working at this volunteer camping area are elder (50-60) and seem to be from some local community club or something. We put our tent up on what is normally the pitch for the football club. We run into two guys. The only ones who have gone crazy party in this whole area. Otherwise everything is silent and clean and nice. They have two tents, one is totally destroyed, there’s trash and fish-cans around them and they are both talking with hoarse voices. The one is laughing at the other talking on the phone. The other puts down the phone and says “hi” to us and says “I just talked to my doctor, I might have hernia, so I think I’ll go home”. We laugh and talk about how we have just arrived and are fresh and ready to be destroyed like them.

Me and my friend have work for one all night shift only at a fish-taco booth in foodcourt, which is in the music area. We go to find out where it is and say hi to our friend who employed us. All working there are in our age range (20-28) and the vibe is very chill. We quickly get introduced to the simple stations and our friend who has the place gets beer for everyone. All is very chill, but also with the mentality that we are gonna work hard as a team. We work 12 hours, drink beer, have smoking breaks in the volunteer lounge which is right behind us. I remember thinking that the work is not that hard given the chill vibe and all the talking and breaks in between. Later we are laughing at the people who are really fucked up and just want fries. I observer how there’s movement of people who are hungry following the end of each concerts. They move from taking the interesting food to only wanting fries. In the end (at 2-3 AM) everybody is asking for fries with extra mayo. I remember how casual the overall vibe and tone is. There’s a mixture of “serious” work vibe, cause my friend who has the stand need to make money and cover his cost, but also an understanding that we are all at the festival, so all co-workers are semi-drunk and happy and all customers are real drunk and happy.

We are off at around 3 AM and have a few beers. We have paid our dues now and have three days of festival for free from now on. We are happy and don’t want to go crazy now, since we will do that the coming days.

Thursday 29/6 I want to take a shower, my friend doesn’t since we arrived yesterday. He says “it’s a bit too luxurious to take one already”. I don’t care cause I’m getting older and I know it. I observe how the whole football club and their locker-room shower facilities are perfect for the festival guest. This is only volunteer area so showers are free and warm, and I buy shampoo from old ladies with local sponsored shirts. The whole vibe in the volunteer camping is chill and silent and people are drinking morning coffee, small talking. There are small coffee stands and breakfast stands with no queues. All is easy and I like it. I feel like this is where we generate energy and get the basics covered before entering crazy-zone. My friend and I keep using Marslows hierarchy of needs pyramid to tell our current state of mind! We need to cover the basics and get food and water before we can get drunk and realize ourselves! We cover the basics in our safe zone of the volunteer camping.

We are happy and start drinking early and walk around some camps to say hello to friends. All is trashy and we can sense some heavy party has been going down the past days on people and the surrounding! We walk around the music square and have plenty of beers in volunteers lounge. Ther’s an agora with nice fatboys where we sit. Some Korean pop-band is having an artist talk. I notice how it’s nice that they are doing these talks in between people, but also that the people sitting around the center of the agora tent in fatboys are hungover and don’t really give a fuck. They came for the fatboys. We pass a big gobble made sculpture, which is supposed to put emphasis on the world oceans or something. It is a very random plastic monster, and a very little A4 sized sign to promote it. The thought is good, but I feel like a lot of people will never notice that it’s an environmental statement.

We eat thai food at this little porch of a small hut in the middle of the area. I notice the sign that says “Roskilde Dyrskue” and remember that this is also the grounds of a big famous farm fair of Denmark where, farmers show of their animals and tractors and something like that. Now the crowd is different I remember thinking.

We go to predrink at my friends camp. We smoke a joint and when we meet them they are already super drunk. They explain how a guy from the camp had to go home, cause he was really sick. Really sick, and they thought it was meningitis. They talk about him as a fallen soldier, who didn’t survive the battle.

22 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

My friends are talking bad about another guy from the camp who is also home. They comment on how he didn’t say anything or add with anything to the camp. Never bought a case of beer or anything. They say it is not cool, to not contribute to the camp both socially and financially.

Friday 30/6 We are browsing around the festival square again around noon. In a group of friends we are walking through something called Klub Rå, where there’s a very artistic vibe, and you walk through this maze of small room with different lights and themes and artist sculptures. We enter a small room with a little stage where a guy and a girl are standing on the small stage very close to the crowd of maybe 15 people. They have only underwear on and theres water pouring from the ceiling so they are wet and you can see through their underway. I remember thinking that all the girls are probably looking at the guys male member, while I know for sure that me and my friends have notices the girls tits through her bra. They start walking through the crowd doing weird and very sexual dancemoves. The light is purple and very intense, just like the music. Me and my friends leave after 3 minutes since it was freaking us out. We walk out back into the light, and feel like we were just in another world.

Later we walk past some ping-pong tables at a stand called Absalon. This is the stand of a famous community concept from Vesterbro, where the guy who founded the Tiger company bought at church called absalon and made it a local community living room of Vesterbro. They now have a stand here and we pass and see the ping pong tables. My friends and I get bats and balls for free and start playing “round the table”. Within 5 minutes this owner of the company shows up and asks if he can join. We play with him, and I remember thinking that he’s a cool old guy. I know he’s a billionaire after selling of stocks in the Tiger company, and here he is playing ping pong with us in rubber boots in the mud. He was very pleasant, and asked everyone passing buy to join. All of a sudden we are playing a big number of guys and there’s a competitive vibe in a good way.

We later, in the same area, observe a dancing show taking place for everyone at the top of a container. There’s dance lesson being done by an instructor, and I remember thinking that there’s no limits to what kind of stuff taking place here. As I am thinking that we see that there’s a croquie session going on, where festivalgoers are painting a fat nude guy. It is all very fun.

My two friends and I are suddenly quite intoxicated. We start talking with a girl from a water booth called Lovespring. We have a long talk about the festival and we are yelling and talking loud so people start joining the conversation. I remember thinking how easy it is to gather a crowd here, since everybody is looking for fun. Another girls shows up and ask if we have some cool object to trade with her. She has a lollypop, some gum and a weird hat. She trades the hat for some sunglasses with the girl from the Lovespring stand. We all share a smoke and then she leaves again. We leave the stand and run into a piano standing in the middle of nowhere, where’s a couple is sitting. The guys is playing and the girl is singing. We join them and sing along. I find the chords for an Elton John song I want him to play. He nails and we all sing along. We offer them a glass of wine from our wine carton and leaves again.

Saturday 1/7 I am destroyed so today my friends and I spent a long time gathering power in the volunteer lounge, which is in the music area. We drink a lot of free coffee and play backgammon and read the Roskilde newspaper.

Later I am watching a concert with a group of friends. Nobody’s really drinking or partying. Everyone is staying and there’s a vibe that no one wants to miss the final concerts, and we talk about the fear of missing out. It might be the best concerts, but in reality a lot of us wants to go home. I remember thinking, that there’s a whole year before being in this setting again, so I should stay for the night.

Participant Observation: Emma

Sunday 25/6: On the way to Roskilde on the train with some friends and family. There are two in the group who haven’t been to the festival before, and are asking questions about practical things such as charging your phone etc. My brother and I who are in the same camp are calling our friends and checking our shared Facebook page asking whether we got a good spot for our tents and how the vibe is (“hvordan er stemning dernede?”) numerous times. It is important for me that we have room and a good place to hang out in the camp as I have in previous years had unfortunate spots (such as not enough room for a pavilion, lying in the middle of a bunch of tents making it difficult to access the camp, too close to toilets or large stereos).

I meet up with my friend at Roskilde Station, and we proceed to the buses that will take us to the correct camp site. We have gone the road before and it is easy to see who are newbies and who have done the “journey” before. There is no chaos as there are predominantly people who have been to the festival before. Everyone are patient and orderly, and listen to the orders being given out by the volunteers in charge of transportation.

We get to our camp and say hi to everyone, throw our stuff into our tent and immediately take out our chairs and open a can of beer. “Ok, now i’m happy. now we’re finally here. cheers!” says my friend. Looking around, everyone in the immediate area are doing exactly the same as we are, sitting in small circles under pavilions and drinking beer and just hanging out, all listening to music on various sized and homemade stereos.

23 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

I go to a concert later in the afternoon where there are roughly 5000 people assembled to listen to a young pop band playing mellow summer tunes. The sun comes out and everyone is cheering. The band are clearly overwhelmed and say “thank you so much Roskilde for giving us a chance and helping us fulfill this huge goal of playing here. We are so grateful and overwhelmed and happy right now”.

Monday 26/6: The routine started from yesterday is repeated, with drinking beers in the camp, listening to music and talking with friends. We play øl- bowling (beer bowling), a game which is seen everywhere on the festival, with four players, one judge, and the rest of the camp/friends observing and drinking beers. It is a game which brings people together and creates both a fun and competitive vibe. I go to see another concert with my friends, and after the concert go to the backstage area with my friend who has a wristband with a high enough clearance to be let in. The atmosphere behind the stage is radically different from the surrounding camping areas, it is clean and quiet, there are couches and nicely dressed young people lounging around drinking coffee or cocktails.

The band that has just played is drinking a huge bottle of champagne and there are some photographers and video crews doing interviews. It is a relaxing atmosphere combined with a work vibe, as most people in this area work in the music business and are both on vacation while networking. We stay in this area for a couple of hours and once we leave and return to our camp I suddenly feel a sense of superiority as the people surrounding do not have access to this oasis in the middle of the chaos. Once back in our camp I see that in the last couple of hours nothing has changed and my camp are still playing beer bowling and listening to music. They ask where I’ve been and I reply at the backstage area, “ooh, you’re so fancy! is it nice there? are everybody just walking around with the bands being super cool?”

Later in the day I go with a couple of friends to the East section of the camping area, which has a dramatically different vibe to it than the West section where I live. Generally East seems to have younger people, and the music is harder (techno/hardstyle). People are very drunk at around 6pm, we go to a stage called East where DJs are playing, and about 200 people are dancing. late evening there is a rapper Noah Carter playing a concert at the Countdown stage which is centered close to the Apollo stage entrance to the festival grounds. There are insanely many people and everyone are very drunk. It is pretty chaotic, especially getting over the bridge to West takes a long time and is frustrating as people are disrespectful and just want to cross quickly.

Tuesday 27/6: Tuesday I am working primarily at the Music office of Roskilde Festival, which is located in the backstage area behind the Orange stage. At this point, the festival grounds are not open to people who are not working there, so there is a quiet and very office-like sober atmosphere. Everyone are working in silence in front of their computers, and it almost feels like that the festival doesn’t exist. My colleagues are all mature adults and are discussing normal office topics such as children, lunch and what they saw on TV. It is strange to be living and sleeping in the camping area and then walking ten minutes to get to a temporary office located in the festival area where everyone are well rested and just dropped off their kids at school.

Wednesday 28/6: I have more work, so I spend almost the entire day either from my computer or running around in the backstage areas to finish an event I am hosting for Roskilde Festival. Many of my colleagues from my daily professional life and partners from other firms are there, and it has a distinct carefree but still professional work vibe, where everybody is drinking rosé wine from glasses and looking nice, but are still wearing muddy boots and with a (designer) rain jacket draped over their shoulders.

Once I finish work I meet up with my friends on the festival grounds which have now opened. The vibe is distinctly more survival as there are huge muddy areas and people running around from concert to concert to make sure they see everything they have to see. I end up being at concerts with my friends until 3.30am and fall asleep in my tent, wet and exhausted.

Thursday 29/6: Work from “outside” disrupts my day off and I am frantically trying to salvage situations whilst on the phone and computer. I go to the backstage area to get some peace to work as it is way too distracting to be surrounded by my beer-drinking (at 11am) friends who are discussing what to watch.

I am frustrated and upset over the fact that my work is disturbing me at Roskilde as it feels as if I cannot completely immerse myself into the experience like my friends in my camp who are acting like there is no outside world. I am jealous of them and the freedom they have to disregard everything outside. I decide that next year at Roskilde I will take some vacation days so that I will not be disturbed. I am sad and feeling that my Roskilde experience is wasted and not complete because of this outside interference.

After I finish my work I meet up with my friends and see concerts and drink drinks and eat all the food which we traditionally eat together. I gradually start feeling better, especially when my friend tells me she’s taking a “work from home day” and has brought her computer with her for tomorrow. “I just can’t take it that I have to leave here every day to go to work, when all I want to do is just to be here” she says to me. This makes me very happy.

Friday 29/6: My friend and I wake up late and are half sleeping, half working on her computer/my phone in our tent. It’s raining outside, so during the afternoon we decide to go back to Copenhagen for a couple of hours to get some warm and dry clothes and come back to see concerts later

24 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen in the day. Once I get home to my apartment I take a hot shower and fall into a deep sleep. I hadn’t realized I was so exhausted until I actually got home. And how quiet it is around me. I go back to the festival and enjoy concerts and walking around, taking in all the sights there are to see. We stop at a huge jellyfish which lights up in the dark, and discuss why it’s there. We’re all sure there’s some political meaning but no one can quite figure out what.

Saturday 30/6: It’s the last day of the festival, and I’m starting to feel a little panicked over the fact that tomorrow I have to go home and there’s a whole year till next time. I don’t quite feel like I’ve experienced enough and been around the whole area, what if there’s something I’m missing?

We go to KlubRÅ, a new experience stage where you walk through a huge yin/yang sign, and we walk directly into a pop band singing a concert for about 50 people all yelling and dancing. The concert was not announced and I feel like me and the others with me in this room are experiencing something very special. I will definitely not forget this moment, it’s way too random and intimate and surprising at the same time. We bolt from concert to concert, bumping into friends and pretty drunk on both love and all the Arena Ice Tea’s we’ve been hammering down.

Sunday 1/7: I wake up in my tent relatively early in the morning, we are only three people out of 12 left in the camp as everybody else has gone home either during the Friday because of the rain or last night. We lie in the tent for a while, not ready to get up, just listening to people around us packing up their tents and discussing the evening before. We get out and start packing our things together, then get some breakfast before we stand in line to wait for the train to take us home.

Sitting on the train is a weird feeling, on one hand you just want to go home and sleep forever, on the other you don’t want to leave and try to postpone leaving the grounds for as long as possible. Everyone around me are lethargic and dirty, look tired and happy at the same time, and are almost all dead silent.

25 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

INTERVIEW GUIDE: AUDIENCE

Basics: • Gender, age, occupation • Role at RF: Paying guest, volunteer, artist, other

• The juxtaposition of spaces

• Time-out-of-time o From strongly disagree to strongly agree § Time has a different meaning when I am at Roskilde (time as flowing) § I feel part of an historic event when I am at Roskilde (time in layers)

• Barriers to entry, opening and closing system o From strongly disagree to strongly agree § My social behaviour is different when I am at Roskilde Festival § I am at Roskilde Festival because my friends are also here (social aspect) o How many hours have you been planning § Camp and practicalities § Researching music

• Relation to all other remaining spaces o From strongly disagree to strongly agree § Roskilde Festival makes me reflect on: • How I act differently relative to outside of RF • How social interaction is different • How it is a unique place compared to other places • Other: o The importance of the music: § From strongly disagree to strongly agree (maybe): • The music is the main reason I come to Roskilde Festival • The warm-up is equally important as the music-days for me o What is important for you at RF? § My camp/being with my friends § Listening to music I know § Discovering new music § Social activities on the camp sites § The art at RF § Partying § Relaxing o How often do you go home from RF? § Every day § A couple of times § Once § Never o Coming home after Roskilde - how have you changed? § Sad to go home to my normal life § Excited to go home to my normal life § Experienced new music § Have been challenged in my beliefs § Learned something new (what?)

26 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

INTERVIEW GUIDE: MUSIC BOOKERS

General: • Can you describe what you do for Roskilde, how long you’ve worked here and how you became a part of the bookinggroup. • What do you work with – do you have any specific areas of responsibility? • What do you think RF gives you that you cannot get elsewhere? • Is working for RF a bigger part of your identity? Is your work mixed with your hobbies and free time? Personal:

Research Phase: • How do you approach the research phase? During the year? • How do you apply your network in this phase? • Live concerts? Not enough time to watch live, then what? • How many different sources do you use and what is most important for you? o Music reviews, magazines, blogs, concerts, network? • Representing the segment of Roskilde: How do you leave your own taste behind when deciding? • Do you perceive yourself as a tastemaker?

Music group meetings • Recommendation process to the others: How do you decide what artist to present to the others? Different type of bands, size, relevance, different trends, periods? • What information do present on the artist at the meetings? How do you sell them to the others? • How do you discuss the bands at the meetings? What arguments, opinions? Size of bands? • How does you background matter? • What’s the process if you don’t agree? • Budget, economy, price of bands? • How do you think the process works?

Booking the artist: • After deciding on booking a band? • How is the negotiation process? o Big small, national vs. international? o • What tools to make unique concerts: Clauses, guest performance, special events? • How do you apply the brand and reputation of RF • What’s the procees when a band cancels?

Competition • Can you explain how the competition of other festivals affects you? • Has it changed?

Predicting trends and demand

• How do you attempt to predict the music trend a year ahead? What do you use to make qualified predictions? • E.g. do you have a research crew? Blogs, social media, other festivals, magazines, intuition? Trendsetter?

Quotas • How do you decide the amount of each genre and amount of mainstream vs. small experimental music?

• Do you have booking quotas from mainstream to highly artsy? genres? sex?

Financials

• How do you balance budgets when booking artists? Are they pre-defined and with hard limits?

27 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

• How is budget divided approximately between genres and popularity of bands? Between small experimental acts and mainstream artists?

• How are the negotiation processes different in national/international, bigger-smaller acts?

• Interdependencies and network • How much is the decision and booking of an artist built on existing network? How much does trust and previous collaboration matter?

• When pursuing a name, how do you engage your network in order to achieve your goals?

• How does your network attempt to use you as a tools to achieve their goals?

• Booking Competition

• Explain the competition for artist by national and international festivals? Is this competition increasing? Radius clause?

• Explain the nature of the competition between other similar Europe festivals?

• Do you gain from it? E.g. bands touring festivals, so RF fits in a Europe tour? inspiration for programme?

28 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

TRANSCRIPTION AUDIENCE INTERVIEWS

To piger 24 og 25 år i Volunteers Lounge Fredag kl 16.54

S: Hej, jeg skriver et research projekt om. Nu snakker til jer ikke, så i ved hvad det handler om. Øh, jeg skriver om hvordan Roskilde er et lille samfund udenfor samfundet og hvad det indebærer. 1: En by i byen. S: En by i byen som er lidt anderledes. Øhm, og så skal jeg bare lige spørge jer, kort 5 minutter, om hvorfor i er her og hvad det kan som den anden by ikke kan. Den normale, det normale sted ikke kan. 1: Virkeligheden. S: Ja virkeligheden. Så hvordan ser i Roskilde. Hvad kan det som. Kan det noget specielt først og fremmest? 1: Øh, altså for det første så tror jeg alle folk er bare glade og det er jo ligesom at komme på en mini-ferie ikke. En hård druk mini-ferie. 2: Og det er også sådan som om der er sådan mindre regler og alle smider sådan mere deres hæmninger, så det er sådan lidt ligesom Christiania, sådan der ligesom deres eget samfund.. 1: Og alle kommer ligesom med det samme mind-set så alle vil ligesom det samme. De vil gerne drikke og hygge sig og de vil gerne til koncerter og sådan... 2: Man har ikke så meget man skal nå, så det er ikke ligeså travlt som storbyen. S: Hvad har man travlt med hernede. Altså, har man travlt. Tænker man på tiden eller hvad. 2: Lidt. 1: Det kommer an på. Det gør man, hvis der er noget man virkelig gerne vil se, men ellers ikke så meget dog hva? Så vi tager det rimelig roligt. 2: Vi ændrer beslutninger hele tiden. Men så ja... Det kommer også bare an på hvordan man er som person jo. S: Tænker i på hverdagen mens i er hernede? 1: Mhm mhm, nej overhoved ikke. S: Okay, i har ikke tænkt jer at tage hjem og tage en pause eller? 1: Jo jeg har faktisk overvejet at gøre det idag og vi snakkede også om at vi burde have gjort det tirsdag aften. 2: Jeg tror ikke det kommer til at ske nu. 1: Men det er mere, det er ikke for at komme, det er bare for at komme hjem i en ordentlig seng, lige få et bad. 2: Tørt tøj. 1: Tørt tøj fordi det regner. Hvis det havde været solskin hele ugen, mega godt vejr. 2: Ja så havde det ikke været noget problem. 1: Ja så havde det været ligemeget. S: Okay, føler i at man skal være hernede til warm-up og man skal være hernede og sove her for at man er ægte på Roskilde. 1: Ja jeg synes de andre. JA det skal man. 2: De der endags øhhh, ludertøserne. 1: Ja vi gik faktisk op til nogen af de der endagsbilletter, hvor det var sådan de kom og de var bare helt sådan (laver snoppet tegn). 2: Ja de gik med baby-wipe under armen. (Griner) S: Så det er ægte Roskilde når man.. 2: Ja men det er fint nok altså, fordi vi kombinerer det med at arbejde i opvarmningsdagene, og så kan man ligesom også bedre holde til det. Altså vi drikker også om aftenen når vi har fri, men altså, så går vi hjem ved en 1-tiden og så kan vi godt stå op næste dag og så får du ligesom stadig en døgnrytme i stedet for det bare er smadre-fest hele tiden.

29 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Ja øhm, ja. Bruger i mange forskellige faciliteter hernede eller hører i kun musik og drikker? Altså bruger i det her med at der også er kunst og de har aktiviteter inde på... 2: Altså vi har jo set dræbergoblen. 1: Vi har set dræbergoblen som er derovre. S: Ja den har jeg også set, men den tager 5 minutter at se og så er den... 1: Ja men det var også mest fordi vi kom til at sætte en skraldespand fast på den. Øhm ellers så, nej vi kigger ikke på kunst. Vi er i campen og vi hygger os med vennerne og så er vi til musik. 2: Ja vi har mest kigget på kunst der i, altså mens vi arbejdede. 1: Ja fordi der har de jo gået, vi har jo arbejdet lige herovre i foodcourt og så ovre på den anden side ved Gloria, der har de jo gået og sat sådan nogle ting op. 2: Og lavet graffiti. 1: Og lavet graffiti og sådan, og vi var også inde og se den der film inde i hjørnet, de har lavet sådan en eller anden traume-film som vi lige var inde og høre lidt på. Men det var bare fordi vi, det var fordi vi gerne ville have en pause, det var ikke fordi vi opsøgte den. 2: Ej jeg synes det er fedt. 1: Jamen det er fedt. 2: Men jeg er ikke sikker på at jeg ville gå forbi, jeg ville ikke vide det var hvis ikke jeg arbejde her. S: Ja, føler i at i er mere med i Roskilde når i arbejder her. Altså er man mere en del af det? Og hvad vil det sige at være en del af det. 1: Og være en del af det? 2: Altså jeg har ikke prøvet ikke at arbejde, men jeg føler at du bidrager ligesom med noget også, så du er ligesom en del af det. 1: Jeg synes det er svært at sige hvad det er. Altså jeg synes bar så længe man er her, så er man en del af det tror jeg. Også bare dem der bare køber billetter og er her alle dage. 2: Der er jo også plads til alle på ROSKILDE. (griner) 1: På ROSKILDE! S: Det er rigtigt! Der er plads til alle (griner). Citat! 1 og 2: Citat. S: Okay så der er ikke noget med... Øhm tror i man ændre, ændrer man.. Ikke personlighed, men adfærd når man er hernede? Altså som man ikke ville gøre hjemme i København. Ting som.. 1: Det tror jeg faktisk kommer an på hvor gammel man er. For at være ærlig. Fordi jeg synes ikke jeg ændre. Altså selvfølgelig fester jeg mere og drikker jeg mere men jeg synes stadig... 2: Jeg vil sige at man smider mange af sine hæmninger når man er på Roskilde. 1: Men det synes jeg altid man gør når man drikker dog. 2: Jo men man har... 1: Man kan måske være lidt mere fjollet. 2: Ej, men der er også bare et andet mind-set til sådan. Altså når du står op.. S: Kunne i, altså man, kunne i finde på at tage et kostume på hernede og gå rundt og have det sjovt? 1: Tage hvad et kostume på? Når ja, det har jeg gjort før! S: Kunne du finde på det i København på en bar? 1: Det har jeg også gjort for. Det har jeg nemlig også gjort før! S: Okay! Stærkt! 1: Har du. Det har du da også gjort? 2: Jaja det har jeg da også gjort. 1: Og malet ansigtet, ja du har. S: Øhm, hvad synes i om de her projekter Roskilde kører hvor de f.eks. denne her Jellyfish. Den er jo, det er jo et signal til at man skal passe på farvandene fordi der kommer de her jellyfish. Øhm så at de har nogle, de har nogle ting som foregår hernede, men som relaterer sig til den anden, til den virkelige verden udenfor. Er det noget i.. Virker det? 2: Neeej. Vi har snakket om denne her Jellyfish at det virker også bare lidt fjollet, fordi vi fik ad vide at havde brugt 20-50.000 kr på helium og den flyver ikke engang. Og bare sådan, deres skilt det er meget sådan søgt med at de vil gøre det til noget større.

30 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: End det egentlig er.. 2: End at det egentlig bare er plastic med luft. S: Hvad så med, de havde lavet fokus på hjemløse sidste år og i år er det fokus på flygninge og sådan noget. 1: Hvordan? S: Man kunne komme ned og møde en hjemløs og sådan noget. 1: Er det rigtigt? 2: Det vidste jeg slet ikke. 1: Nej det gjorde jeg heller ikke, men generelt synes jeg at Roskilde er sådan ret god til at lave de der, hvad skal man sige, sådan bevidste ting som prøver at hjælpe samfundet, men det synes jeg bare måske er mere det image de bare har. At det ved man, man ved altid at de laver et eller andet, der er godt for andre. S: Og ja. I ved måske ikke specifikt hvad det er hver år, men. 1: Men jeg synes bare godt man ved at Roskilde er sådan, også bare fordi det er en non-profit... 2: Non-profit. 1: Ja præcis så man ved godt... 2: Siden 1972 (griner) 1: Er det rigtigt? S: Det er rigtig. Det er nemlig helt rigtigt. 1: Hvad for en avis har du læst i? (Griner) S: Okay til sidst. Har i været her før? 1 og 2: Ja. S: Hvor mange år har i været her? 2: Øhh, andet år? 1: Det her er mit fjerde år! S: Okay, minder årene om hinanden eller har der været udvikling? 1: Øhhh, nej men jeg gik fra at øhhh, købe billet i to år til så at arbejde i to år, så for mig har det jo så ændret sig på det punkt ikke. At der var mindre, i gåseøjne, fritid i opvarmningsdagene end der var i starten. Jeg synes det er blevet federe for mig. Også, jeg ved ikke, jeg synes bare det er federe at være her som 25-årig end som 18-årig. S: Okay, var du her som 18-årig? 1: Ja 17 / 18. S: Hvorfor er det federe? 1: Det ved jeg ikke. Det øhhh, jeg tror bare at øhmm... S: Er du mere heroppe på pladsen nu eller er du? 1: Jeg tror jeg får set mere musik, jeg har, jeg har fundet nogle nicere mennesker at tage afsted med i forhold til dengang, som vil mere det samme. Og så tror jeg bare at det er sådan en personlig ting egentlig, at man bare måske chiller lidt mere fordi man får lidt ro på. S: Fedt. Ville i tage afsted, hvis jeres venner ikke skulle herned? 2: Ej jeg ville aldrig tage afsted alene. 1: Nej jeg ville heller aldrig tage afsted alene. Aldrig nogensinde. S: Så det er meget socialt også. 1: Ja sindsyg meget. S: Hvis nu der ikke var musik hernede men alle jeres venner var hernede og drikke, og spille øl-bowling og lave alt det her gøgl, ville i så stadig tage herned? 1: Måske ikke så lang tid! 2: Nej, nej jeg har det også sådan, at jeg kan godt gøre det, ja ligesom i opvarmningsdagene. 1: Men hvis der slet ikke var noget musik, så ja så.. 2: Men du ville ikke kunne gøre det mere end en 3-4 dage. 1: Nej.

31 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

2: Hvis der ikke er noget at lave, sådan udover. S: Okay. Og hvor gamle er i? 1: 25. 2: 24. 1: Altså jeg er 25 imorgen. 2: Wuhuuuu. S: Wuhuuuu (griner). OG VI SIGER TAK! 1 og 2: (Griner) S: Stærkt!

Thomas 45 år, kl 21.50 Fredag foran Meyer's Deli

S: Klokken er 21.50 på den dejlig Fredag aften på Roskilde Festival og jeg sidder her med Thomas foran Meyer's, Meyer's bod. Vi har lige spist en god flæskestegssandwich og nu skal jeg lige høre Thomas. Øhm, hvis nu jeg siger et statement at Roskilde Festival kan ses som et samfund udenfor samfundet indenfor en uge. Er du enig i denne her statement? T: Jeg er ikke uenig, men jeg synes stadigvæk jeg oplever, det jeg ser på Roskilde, når jeg tager tilbage fra Roskilde, så er det der stadigvæk og især i månederne efter så fylder det. Livsstilen omkring, altså det der camp-liv, hvor folk de slipper sig selv løs og smider hæmningerne den er meget present i Københavns gader, der i sommermånederne. S: Kan du mærke det? T: Ja det kan jeg. S: Okay. Har du kommet her i mange år? T: Ja. S: Okay, hvor mange år har du været her? T: 20 - 25 år. S: Okay. Føler du at Roskilde Festival har ændret sig? T: Ja. S: Meget? T: Ja. S: Hvordan? T: Øh, fokus har flyttet sig fra at være, tror jeg, det er min egen opfattelse, fra at være mere musik-orienteret til at blive mere fokuseret på camplivet. Og det er ikke nødvendigvis en dårlig ting, men en lille episode idag for eksempel, som sådan sætter en streg under det i min opfattelse af det, at min yngste niece på 17 år, hendes camp pakkede sammen idag og tog hjem. S: Fordi det regnede? T: De havde fået nok. Det, for dem var, det handlede ikke om musik, det handlede om at være ude på campen. Så på den måde synes jeg at der er sket noget, at det handler mere om at være derude for mange mennesker og jeg synes ikke det er en dårlig ting. Det er bare, på den måde har det ændret sig. S: Okay. Øhm føler du at du ligesom kommer ind i en, altså når du er her, får det dig til at tænkte på alle de andre år du har været her? Er du en del af noget specielt som du husker tilbage fra den tid? Minder det dig om alle de andre Roskilde? T: Jeg tror mest det minder mig om en særlig stemning og følelse jeg godt kan lide og som jeg oplever at mine venner øhh også gerne vil have, altså opsøger det. Det er, det er højdepunktet på sommeren i Danmark. Alt efter Roskilde det bliver sådan lidt. Ja så slapper vi af, nu har vi... S: Ja, hvorfor er du kommet så mange år? Hvad er det der er så specielt? T: Jah men øh, jeg har altid været glad for musik, men stemningen er jo helt særlig. At møde jer her i aften er jo skide hyggeligt øhm og sådan nogle oplevelser får man, når man kommer på Roskilde Festival. S: Det føler du ikke man får udenfor? T: Ej. S: Oh shit, det føler du ikke man får udenfor Roskilde?

32 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

T: Nej ikke på samme måde. Folk er ligeså åbne. Nej. S: Tror du at, som du selv sagde, at du kan mærke det månederne efter at man kommer tilbage. Tror du at folk lærer noget af at være hernede om, om øhh, om ting udenfor? Altså om hvordan man opfører sig og... T: Ja, jeg tror at jeg.. Det er en dannelsesrejse og folk de bliver mindet om, hvad de bør fokusere på hen i livet. De bør selvfølgelig fokusere på nogle andre ting også men her er noget særligt som man bør prøve at bringe med sig tilbage. Og det oplever jeg også at folk gør. S: Okay. T: Jeg er overbevist om at Roskilde Festival har påvirket Dansk-hed. S: Ja. Okay. Stærkt. Øhm, hvis nu man, hvis nu jeg siger øh Roskilde Festival er noget der kommer på et utopia i en uge. Er du. Sig mig hvorfor du er uenig eller enig eller... Fordi det er det måske ikke, eller hvad? T: Ej utopia. Jeg har været meget lykkelig hernede mange gange. Men jeg tror ikke at.. Ej jeg ville jo ikke. S: Hvad mangler der hernede sådan..? T: Ej utopia, der går alt op i en højere enhed. Der her kan kun fungere fordi du har en civil situation bag dig. Så nu lægger vi det bag os og så går vi ud og slipper det løs. Øh så det ville jo ikke være noget man havde lyst til at gøre særlig meget mere end de der 4 dage. S: Så du mener at det er nok med en uge at det ikke kunne lade sig gøre mere.. T: Ja det vil jeg mene (griner). Ja jeg har ikke brug for mere. S: Føler du at du.. Føler du at der er meget indblanding fra verden udenfra altså med sponsorer og med.. Eller kan man.. T: Nej ikke på Roskilde. Nej det synes jeg ikke. Det er der, men øhh Roskilde er meget gode til at holde det lidt nede og. Ja, jeg har været på Primavera. Hvor der er meget mere massiv reklame-indtog og det er ikke fedt. S: Okay, nej. Hvor det er helt kommercielt og... T: Ja det hele er grimt. Roskilde har deres eget udtryk og det kan jeg meget godt lide. S: Ja føler du at du er mere med i Roskilde efter du har været her så mange år, altså at du kommer tættere på kernen, hvis der er en kerne. Kan man være, kan man være, bare købe et armbånd og så bare være perifert med i Roskilde eller kan man komme tættere på følelsen, ved at f.eks. at arbejde her eller have back-stage-pas eller..? T: Jeg tror, uanset hvad du gør og din tilgang til Roskilde så vil du komme i nærheden af kernen. Du vil aldrig nå ind helt til den øhh, om du gør det på den ene eller den anden måde det er ligemeget, det handler om hvad der giver mening for dig i situationen og.. S: Ja, stærkt. Øhm, tror du man skal.. Så man behøver ikke vide særlig om musik eller... T: Næh, faktisk ikke, det er jo i høj grad stemningen der definerer Roskilde Festival. S: Hvad med alkohol. Tror du det ville fungere uden, hvis du ikke drak øl her? T: Nej. Ærlig talt. Nej det ville det ikke. Så ville jeg ikke gide at kommer her. S: Okay, fedt. T: Hah. S: Tak for det mand! T: Det var så lidt. Jeg håber du kan bruge det. S: Ja men det kan jeg. Jeg laver sådan en heller masse små 5 minutters interviews med en masse forskellige. T: Ja.

Interview Mie i Camp E kl 21:12 Torsdag

S: Hej hvad hedder du? M: Jeg hedder Mie. S: Hej Mie, velkommen til Roskilde Festival 2017. M: Tak. S: Det er rart at du er her. M: Tak. S: Jeg har lige et spørgsmål om hvorfor du er her. Hvorfor er du er her i år og hvor mange år har du været her? M: Hvorfor jeg er her?

33 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Ja, hvorfor er du her, og hvor mange år har du været her? M: Fordi, jeg er her vel fordi at øhh, det er mega hyggeligt og det er mega nice at sådan man kan have en camp med alle sine venner og man kan have det sjovt i en helt masse dage og så udover det kan man se en masse nice musik. Det er derfor jeg er her og det er femte gang jeg er her. S: Femte gang. Okay. Øhm, føler du at Roskilde Festival er et lille samfund udenfor samfundet? M: Ja. Ja, ja det føler jeg faktisk fordi... S: Hvordan det? M: Mhmm, fordi sådan, det er svært at sige, hvordan man føler det, men det er sådan et eller andet med at man.. S: Opfører du dig anderledes, eller er du, er der nogle andre..? M: Ja, jeg tror den største forskel er, at hernede er jeg fuld hele tiden, og det er jeg ikke derhjemme. S: Okay, fedt. Det spændende. M: Ja. Altså det er. S: Hvad nu hvis du ikke måtte drikke alkohol, og du stadig kom herned og der var alle de her stive mennesker som var på din alder og som bare sad ædru og legede armish people. M: Alle de her STIVE mennesker der sad ædru. S: Nej nej, det var forkert sagt. Alle de her mennesker og legede armish people men stadig var på din alder. M: Jeg tror stadigvæk man opfører sig en lille smule anderledes fordi sådan, alle på en eller anden måde kommer herned på de samme præmisser. Så vil man vel altid opfører sig lidt anderledes end man vil derhjemme. Også selvom man ville være ædru. S: Øhm, tænker du over tiden hernede? Er der noget tids-øhh. M: Nej, det tror jeg ikke. S: Uddyb! Hvordan, hvordan altså. M: Meen altså jo, det eneste.. S: Tænker du over tiden hjemme i København eller hvor du kommer fra? M: Jamen det gør man vel altid fordi man har en masse ting man skal nå i forhold til skole og i forhold til alting, hernede tænker man vel især, altså i opvarmningsdagene tror jeg ikke man tænker så meget over tiden, men her i musik-dagene så er det eneste man tænker over tiden er i forhold til hvornår man skal nå at se noget musik. Men ellers så er det jo bare en eller anden, en afslapning at man ikke behøver at tænke over tiden. Det er jo også det der gør det niced. At man slipper for det. Det er jo en af de gode ting ved det. S: Tror du at du lærer noget at være hernede og have et lidt anderledes, en anderledes uge en normalt, fordi det er jo ikke en normal uge i København det her. Det er en lidt fucked-up uge. M: Jeg ved ikke, jeg ved ikke. S: Tænker du over ting, når du kommer tilbage. Er du blevet klogere på dig selv? M: Jeg ved ikke om jeg lærer noget af det, sådan, LÆRER. Men jeg tror at det er rigtig sundt for mange at komme væk og komme væk fra at have så meget fokus på computer og på telefon og på alle sådan nogle ting. Det tror jeg er rigtig sundt for hernede er man meget mere sammen med folk og har meget mindre fokus på sådan sociale medier end man har derhjemme. Det tror jeg er rigtig sundt at få et break fra det. S: Så du ser det faktisk som en lille pause fra denne her hverdag, hvor du.. M: Ja! S: Og er det noget, er det noget du bruger til at, til lige at tage en uges fri og så komme tilbage til.. M: Ja helt sikker. Altså helt sikkert. Det er det virkelig. S: Fordi det er det jeg vil høre. Det er det jeg vil høre. M: Øh, du har lige skrevet min konklusion der. Nemt. S: Det er mig der putter ordene i munden på det. M: Neeej, men det synes jeg det er. S: Hvorfor er det så det? Opfører du dig anderledes når du er på Roskilde, hvad er det det kan som du ikke bare lige vil kunne gøre derhjemme i København? M: Men, det er måske det der med at man bor. Altså sådan, man bor sammen med mange af sine venner så det er meget nemmere at komme hinanden nært hele tiden. End det er derhjemme, hvor man er nødt til sådan at fysisk opsøge det der med at have nærkontakt med andre mennesker. Og derhjemme så er det sådan, man skal vælge, hey skal vi ses, her når man står op så er ens bedste ven i teltet ved siden

34 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen af en. Så er man der bare og så er man ligesom, man er fanget lidt mere i at være nødt til at være sammen med mennesker her, end man er derhjemme. S: Er det godt eller dårligt. Er det ikke meget godt? M: Jo, jo det er sindsyg godt og i perioder måske, det er også ret rart derhjemme at kunne slippe fra mennesker engang imellem. S: Hvad hvis nu Roskilde Festival varede 2 uger. Ville du være her begge 2 uger? M: Altså det ville jeg nok ikke, men det er ikke på grund af relationerne, men mere sådan i forhold til alt det der med at man kan ikke gå i bad, og det regner og det er fucking koldt om natten, det er nok det der gør at jeg ikke ville være her. S: Hvad med alkoholen? Ville du kunne klare Roskilde uden alkohol, ville du kunne sætte dig ned og være med uden alkohol? M: Ja det tror jeg gerne, det tror jeg godt jeg ville kunne. Men to ugers Roskilde med alkohol, det ville jeg heller ikke kunne klare. Det er alt, alt, alt alt for meget. S: 5 minutters. Perfekt. M: Nemt.

Marléne 14:24 Thursday at Water Stand Left of Orange Stage

S: Okay, perfect. So your name is? M: My name is Marléne and Locke and I am from Vancouver, Canadada. S: Okay, but you live in, you live in Copenhagen? M: I live in Copenhagen, I've been living in Copenhagen for 6 years. S: Perfect! Ehm, and you have been to Roskilde how many times? M: This is my fourth Roskilde Festival. S: Okay, and my question is, why do go here, what is it that is special about Roskilde? M: Ohhhhh, that old chest-nut. It is always fun to be around when everybody is around having fun, number one. Two, I think the Danes do festivals really, really well. Everybody is smiling, everybody is laughing a lot and dancing a lot, and from what I can tell, really good fans of music. But mostly the last two years I've been a volunteer for Lovespring, which is a charity that, first of all we dish out water to all the festival-goers to keep them hydrated. Second of all it raises money so that we can help people in third world countries have access to water. We build wells and right now we are working on wells in Togu. Eh, the bottles are biodegradable and we refill them as many times as people want, and it's only 25 kr, and this is the second year i volunteered for them and it is a super fun job. Because you get to talk to cool people and have fun and serve water and everyone's smiling and then you get to hang out afterwards and check out all the cool music and atmosphere.

S: Okay, do you feel like that Roskilde is a good facilitator for this? Do you think this would happen another place, or is this something that you can really bring in in a festival setting?

M: Do you mean Lovespring in general? S: Yeah, this kind of idea!

M: This kind of idea should be everywhere. S: Yeah but does it fit well with the festival?

M: I think so, because the festival is all about love and enjoying time together and the music, and we are here and we are trying to help the festival-goers stay hydrated and that means that they can enjoy the festival that much more! S: Okay, what about you as a festival-goer. Why do you like eh, if you see the festival you can see it as kind of a different society within society for a week, for a temporary time. Do you agree with that?

M: That's true. Ehhh, I think definitely because a lot of people will come to festivals like this to escape for a week. I know a lot of people who look forward to this festival all year around, so that they can really let themselves be free and relax with their friends. For me personally, I, I don't necissarily, I find that I'm not necissarily looking at it as an escape, but I love the collective aspect of festivals. And I

35 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen think that, ehm, it's really valuable for people to have time away from their kind of regular routine lifes and come together and celebrate music. So for, I just, I just love being around people and connecting with people. I'm not much of the big party person anymore. I don't drink that much, but I really love just wandering around discovering new music, talking to all the people and just observing people, ehm, enjoying themselves.

S: Okay, so you don't, like, do you change your behaviour when you go to a festival? Or is it just you in a fun setting?

M: That's a really good question actually! S: Like, because some people do. M: It's a really good question, and I totally agree that a lot of people need it for that. For me, NO. I am really naturally... I'm like, the work that I do and everything, I'm quite naturally gregarious and social. I love interacting with people. I don't necissarily need the validation. That's why I actually spend a lot of my festival in this booth, you know, shifting water for people, because I think it's a really nice way to interact with the other festies. Rather than just, you know, for me it's not about getting drunk and, you know, jumping of off things and doing crazy stuff so much, which is fair, I mean every people is allowed to do what they wanna do. But for me, I just love that people come to me and they are smiling and we are doing them a service at the same time as serving a bigger cause as well. So the goodwill aspect of it is what I love, and then if you can, it's really easy, even our own conversation has been fun, because you guys were having fun and I noticed it.

S: Do you think this would happen in Copenhagen in a bar. This conversation?

M: I, you, well I, that's a very interesting question because I have a background in the bar industry in Copenhagen, so you are talking to someone who has worked in two high-end cocktail bars as a cock-tail bartender and as a brand ambassador for big spirits brand for two and a half years for Denmark. Ehh, and my whole, this is why I was saying before like, I don't change when I'm at places like this and my experience in the bar would be very similar to this, totally similar. But then that's my way. I think, yeah, I guess I'm just always open to possibility and life always surprises me in a pleasant, because of that I always get surprised in a good way.

S: Yeah, but you, you came here just for the work now, and you didn't sleep here in the warm-up days?

M: No because my job job didn't allow me the time, so I mean...

S: Would you have done it if you didn't have to work?

M: Probably not, but that's beacuse I'm kind of older and I don't really need that. I don't need the whole week, because mostly the build-up week is a lot about people setting up their camp and catching up with each other and having big parties and things. And that's not my sort of style anymore. Ehm, so I, you know, I like being here when the music is on, and when it is sort of at it's full...

S: And how do you feel about, when the music is on and you're in this moment. Is it, can you let go from the rest of your life for sometime? M: Yes, but i think.. S: Is that possible?

M: I think, it is an interesting question because on one hand it is a question of being present, right. Now some people need the escape. They really come here and they are trying to get away from something else. For me it's less about trying to get from something, it is more about being in the present moment of whatever I'm doing. So when it comes to, like I often will come from gig to gig for myself. I mean I have friends all over the place but I don't have a group that I am always connected, that I am always attached to. So I can wander from one gig to another and stand there and really be... Yesterday I went to see Rag and BoneMan at Avalon and there was a massive crowd. And I was really standing there and there was moment when I closed my eyes and just listened to the music and I felt very much in my own bubble just enjoying the music. And, and at the same time I knew everyone around me was at the same space. So I feel, I personally can feel connected but at one with my own self, you know, at the risk of sounding kind of deep and whatever, but I do, I can feel quite content just wandering around and absorbing all of the activity and interactions and. So I, I, you know, for me it's ehh, it's not an escape, it's just another experience to take advantage of and to savor while it is happening.

36 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Okay, do you think you bring somehting once you go to this little society for a week or for whatever many days? Do you think you bring back something to your other life or is it just..? Do you learn something or is it, is it a way to be..?

M: It's a combination of things. Of course everyone, everyone will meet new people, so you'll have that memory. You know, I'll have a laugh at some point about, so we've already been talking about some of the jokes we've been cracking with some of the people we've been talking to. And I'm still laughing at them even though they are simple moments. But that's just cause that's the way that I am. So in terms of taking things away, I'm always taking things away, ehm, even just, I'll tell you the little thing of: I want popcorn and you guys wanna go see a group called Pop Caan and I know, I could read meaning into that but I actually just think that's very amusing, I think that's kind of funny. Ehm, so taking of course I'll end up taking that back home with me, and also by default of having had a break from my usual routine. It is four days of camping and roughing in and sleeping on a matress and, you know, kind of not getting a lot of sleep. So yeah you'll come back with a refr.. different state because you have been removed from your regular routine. And I think that that's depending on whether you're a positive or a negative person, cause someone out there might just say: Ah it wasn't as good as that year, ehh, or the weather was shit, and you know, that kind of stuff. Ehm, someone the other day was just complaining that the fries were too expensive at 35, whereas I'm just like, yeah but they are 4 people sharing this little thing of fries. So they see them as expensive fries whereas I see it as a cheap way of bringing people together. So I'll always, but that's because I'm an optimist I think at heart, but it enhances everything that I experience here at the festival. And then here also I love that people have permission to be who they wanna be. One of my really good friends, he's this really tall guy, but he loves dressing up and he loves glitter. And yesterday he was around all day with his girlfriend and he was wearing a to-to all day, and I'm just like, and I think that's the part of the festival that enhances life in some way. That's an enhancement cause you wouldn't do that at work. So that's, I sort of take away my equivalent of that. Like, just that little time when it's intensly social and there's so much stimuly, theres's so many people. And I get overwhelmed when I think too much about, I am a bit of a thinker so I'll think about this group of people here and how many stories that they might have either at the festival or outside. And if I really think about it I feel overwhelmed by it and I just feel wow! I mean it's such an intense experience actully in that regard. But then if you just take it as like, you could just be dancing everywhere and talk you guys or whatever and then it's just a giggle and then life feels pretty good. It's just that simple.

S: Okay (high-five). Fuck that's awesome!

COLUMBIAN GUY FROM THE BOOTH JUMPS IN AND ASKS M: C: Do you have anything bad to say about Roskilde? Anyhing that could be improved?'

M: I mean not that... Not really. I mean, it's just the usual "aww toilets" and you know, it's just stuff that's festival stuff. You don't think of it as like. I think Roskilde, as far as I have experienced, Roskilde is always run in a good way. My friends always have a good time, I've always had a good time even though.. Last year I just worked this stand, I didn't even have time to see any music because I was so busy with my job job. So I came here, worked here, went home and i commuted, ehh, and it was really busy but I had a great time, I loved it, I was like, this is fun man like. So if you're gonna, if you're gonna come to the festival, say as oppose to just coming in wandering around by myself I've intensely interacting and having laughs and high-fives and jokes and.. Ehm, that's a good way to spend time, like!

S: How do you think a case like this, this good cause of serving water in Africa, ehm, do you think the festival is a good place to get people's attention because you have them gathered in one place and you can like, you can put some stuff on the agenda that will go back to the real lifes, but if you try to catch on the walking street on the way home from work, they won't have time.

M: I mean it's serves, it's such a good, symbiosis because people here need hydration, so you are ultimately first serving a need right, you know, we sort of see, Lovespring is all about actually giving people water and keeping them hydrated and if you buy this, the charity you know then we make money for a good cause, so people come to us all the time with bottles that aren't our bottles, but we will fill and we will give you water, water, water. And, so you, the first thing is you are serving a need for the festival, you are actually bringing something to the festival, and the fact that it is a charity just makes the goodwill-factor, you know, it just completely makes it, pardon the pund, but it makes it water tight because you. There's absolutely no reason not to love this setup and that's also another reason why it makes it a good gig for, for people who wanna come to a festival like that. You know I got a festival pass, I got a camping pass and I love doing this. And know people who've spent 8 hours, spent 8 hours sitting in a car park, you know. I'm helping people help other people and it's helping me. That's perfect. Like how much better can it get than that. So I think somehing like this absolutely fits the festival-circuit perfectly, I mean it's just, people need, people need the water, so you're giving them something nobody else is doing. So that's. The circle is complete!

S: Fuck that's awesome!

Jonas (1) and Sally (2), 24 and 25 in front of Arena Saturday 21.15

37 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Okay here we go. Let me ask you a few questions. So, so, so this is your first time at Roskilde or not? 2: Yes. 1: Yes, my first time. S: Okay, how's it been? 2: So far? S: Yeah. Yeah it's the final day so.. 2: I've only been here 2 hours I mean I was here before but I was working. So I really enjoy it and I think is pretty similar to my favourite festival in Poland. S: And what is that like? 2: It's very similiar, it's just a bit smaller I would say. And there is not so much going on. Aaand, yeah and also we've been talking before that everybody is so much more concerned about how you look like, for instance, whereas here I don't see people really about that at all. You know. It's more about comfor.. Comfortable. S: Okay, do you think that people care in Copenhagen, from what you ehhh, from what you know Copenhagen like? How is this different from your perception of Copenhagen? 2: How is Roskilde Festival different from my perception of Copenhagen? S: Yeah the people and the... 2: Well I think that people are more, ehhh, chilled out. They are not so much, yeah, first of all they are not so much concerned how they look like. Definitely. Cause I feel that especially like, I don't know, like in the center in Copenhagen you have more, like definitely you know all in black and just very like nonchelan, but at the same time very elegant. You know what I mean, they just seem that they, you know... S: Do they act differently? 2: I think they do. Most of them, they are very drunk. Ehm I think they are more at ease. Yeah. I think so, it is, it's way different yeah. S: And you can talk as well Jonas if you want. 1: Yeah, I've been to Roskilde for 3 days, this is my first time. And I really embrace the whole, it sounds corny, but the whole living in the moment thing, cause I just got here Wednesday night without a plan, just a backpack and then I decided to leave again on Friday morning and return on Saturday morning, so I just had Friday off as a break, but I really love the days that I've been here, and just watching a lot of concerts that I didn't really plan too much. I didn't really know they where playing here but I just, you know you just, when you are there you just see, aww she's playing, he's playing and then you go there and you just have really really nice concert, like, on the same level as if you would have been back in Copenhagen and planning a concert and paying 300 kr just to go for that one night, it's been the same level of entertainment, that like you know that you just go from concert to concert. 2: And there's a human giraffe just passing by. (haha). That's for the entertaining.. S: That's good for the yeah, that's a good little feedback for interview. 1: Patte - Sutter. Patte - Sutter! S: Okay, so would you say that you really feel part of this festival? From working here and from? 1: Yeah I feel.. S: Or do you observe these people in giraffe costumes and then you're just... 1: I feel part of it, cause you don't have to act out. You just have to beeee, here! To be a part of it, you don't have to act in a certain way to be a part of it, you just have to be here and then, yeah, everbody just, like everbody they have fun. You don't have to act in a certain way. S: Did you, did you think a lot about your lifes back home these days? 1: About my what? S: Your life on the other side. These days? 1: Ehhh, no I didn't at all. That's like I didn't give that one single thought. While I was here I didn't think of anything else than just having fun here. S: Okay.Ehm let me think. What else I wanna ask. Have you been doing anything besides the musik? 1: Here? S: Like some activities or watching some other stuff than the music, on here the festival. 1: Yeah, there's just a lot of walking around and visiting the different spots that was not neccissariliy about music but they have other entertainment acts. For example playing ping pong at one spot and then going to another spot just to ehhh.. Well that was not neccissarily

38 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen on the festival square, but like going to the camp-site just hanging out with people who are camping there. They like, they make up their own games. Just yeah play with them and have fun with them. 2: I saw a, lika a small thatre performance when I was walking by, I was just like checking out what's going on, and there was like, eh, 5 guys sitting and they were just doing like a gig. I didn't stay for too long, but yeah some cultural stuff going on too. S: Do you actually think that you've met, or seen some people that you haven't seen in Denmark by living in Copenhagen. Maybe another side of Denmark or.. 1: I don't feel like I've seen other people because Copenhagen is very diverse, but I've seen certain people act in a different way, than I would have seen them in Copenhagen. Yeah. S: Yeah okay, and ehhh Salomera, how is this festival compared to the one you go to in Holland. 2: Poland! S: Poland. Same same. (haha) 1: haha, Opener In Poland! 2: That's the most typical mistake, don't worry! Well I would say that it is way more chilled out vibe as I said before as I said before. It's just like as what Jonas said before as well, that you just, you don't really have to be anything and you don't really feel that anybody's judging you, you can just walk in a giraffe costume you know and everybody is like sort of welcome. Also like I feel that there are soooo many people here, and like, I don't know, I just feel like everybody's is Danish, or like almost everybody's Danish, so I just had the feeling like half of the people is here. It's like everybody came here. S: I think they did, basically! 1: So yeah this is. This is what I feel and ehm, I think, I thinks it's amazing. I've always wanted to be here. Seriously I think I was like 15 when I first heard about the festival, when I was in high school, and I've always wanted to come here, but sort of never, yeah, happened. S: Do you think you will come back now that you did? 1: yeah yeah, I would like to be here for like the whole festival actually. At some point. Aand, it's just, it's always the same, exactly the same period as Opener and you know for me it's like going there it's like meeting all my friends and it's more like a social event. And here it's just more for fun I would say. For me personally? S: Okay, would you go here if you didn't have any friends going here? 1: Yeah yeah absolutely? Yeah I think it is cool. S: And would you work again or would you like to try to buy a ticket? 1: Noo, I would volunteer and work or... S: Why is that important? Just for the money. 1: Yeah mostly for the money... (Heavy metal guitar riff starts playing from Arena) S: I'm just trying to save money for travels. 2: Wuhuuuuuuuuu! S: Okay end of interview!

Axel kl 12.40 Lørdag på ved Volunteers Lounge

STARTER OPTAGELSE MIDT I SAMTALE OM ROSKILDE SOM UTOPI

A: Kører den nu eller hvad. S: Ja. A: Okay. S: Vi er igang snakken om hvad festival giver Axel. Hvorfor han tager herned. A: Altså, først og fremmest så er det jo, så er det det her hygge i øh, ja man er et sted med sine, sine venner og man, man skal egentlig bare have det fedt, altså det handler jo egentlig bare om at have det så lækkert som muligt og hvordan du selv kan få det lækkert og egentlig bare hygge dig alt hvad du kan. Men så alligevel, hvis man skal snakke om hvad der er utopi i det, altså hvornår det bliver utopisk det hele, så ved jeg ikke helt om altså fortolkningen, hvordan man kan fortolke det begreb, fordi at det er så bredt. Altså det er mange ting der skal spille sammen før man kan få sådan, hvis man kan sige en utopisk oplevelse. S: Okay, føler du at...

39 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: Jamen det er ikke hele tiden man har det. Det kan være at, altså til en koncert-oplevelse så kan du måske få den, hvor den, det hele det spiller sammen og så kan få en følelse af at man mister lidt tid og sted og det er vel der man ryger ind i sådan det utopiske univers. S: Og sker det tit eller hvad føler du hernede? A: Ja men.. Det ved jeg.. Altså det skete lidt igår, men, men jeg altså det er ikke. Roskilde er jo ikke utopisk i sig selv fordi der er så mange ting der er sådan er lidt pøllet. S: Ja. A: Den kan du godt tage ud. Erstatte den med, ikke så, ikke så fedt. Altså det at, det at man vågner i teltet og man har ikke sovet. Man har ikke sovet særlig godt og man skal op og man skal skide. Altså man skal have ordnet de her ting før man kan, altså de her basale behov skal man have styr på og så kan man begynde at tænke på at have det fedt. Så der er jo hele opstarts-perioden til at komme igang med dagen, der nok ikke er særlig utopisk, altså. Så det er jo måske stadier, hvor du ryger ind og kan glemme lidt tid og sted. Yes. S: Føler du at du er, at der er flere dybder i hvor meget man er med i Roskilde Festival? A: Altså hvordan øh? S: Altså om du bare har købt en billet, om du arbejder, om du er her hele ugen. A: Ja ja helt klart. S: Om du har back-stage pas for eksempel. Hvad ville du helst altså hvad ville du. Det er måske et tydeligt spørgsmål. Selvfølgelig ville du have, alle vil jo have back-stage til Orange. A: Det har jeg ikke tænkt over overhoved. Altså nu når man kommer inde midt i ugen så kan man jo godt føle at man ikke har fået det her, de her opvarmningsdage med, som egentlig også er en stor del af festivalen. Altså hvor det, hvor det måske ikke handler om så meget andet end bare at drikke en helveds masse bajere og te sig åndssvagt. Og så kommer det andet stadie hvor koncerterne kommer og.. S: Hvordan har du med at vi bare, at vi er hoppet ind i det her stadie. A: Jamen det har jeg det fint med, men jeg kunne egentlig godt have. Jeg gad egentlig godt have oplevet en enkelt opvarnings-dag. Lige have fået den med. Så havde det været perfekt. Komme tirsdag og lige få en enkelt. Så, yes. S: Vi siger tak til Axel. A: Det var så lidt.

3 personer foran Absalon, Lørdag kl. 14.24

S: .... Så handler min thesis om hvad Roskilde kan som et normalt sted ikke kan. Og der bliver sat nogle ting sammen, nogen steder bliver samlet som normalt ikke bliver samlet og om det skaber noget unikt. Så lige til at starte med, hvor længe har i været her i år?

Dame: Det er lidt forskelligt. 1: Jeg er lige kommet. D: Vi er to på fuldbilletter og en på dagsbillet. S: Okay du er på dagsbillet (til nr 1). 1: Yes. 2: Og jeg har ikke været her alle dagene selvom jeg har en fuld billet. 1: Det er min første dagsbillet nogensinde. S: Og ellers plejer du at være her? 2: Ja, plejer at arbejde ikke? 1: Jo. D: Vil du interviewe en af os eller vil du lave et kompromis? S: Nej laver bare sådan et gruppe.. Smid ind hvad i.. Hvorfor er du på dagsbillet i år? 1: Fordi jeg fik den i fødselsdagsgave og øh jeg ikke havde købt nogen selv. S: Okay. 1: Fordi øh, fordi jeg har været her rigtig mange år. Og det, det bliver mindre magisk for hvert år. S: Gør det det? 1: Ja en lille smule.

40 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Hvorfor det tror du? 1: Det er vel fordi jeg bliver ældre fordi festivalen bliver ældre men tiltrækker yngre. Jeg tror bare på et eller andet tidspunkt så bliver jeg skippet, kasted udover, eller hvad det hedder. S: Ja okay, øhm, hvordan kan du mærke den har ændret sig? Har festivalen ændret sig med tiden? 1: Jeg har ændret mig! Jahh festivalen har også ændret sig. Selvfølgelig har den det. S: Hvordan har den det? 1: Altså min første billet kostede 610 kr. Øhhh, så det. S: Okay hvor lang tid siden er det du var her. 1: 94 første år. Du var her i 93? 2: Ja. 1: Der kostede den 510 kan jeg huske. Det var helt vanvittigt at den steg 100 kr på et år. 2: Grove løjer. D: Jeg var her i 96 hvor den kostede 700. Hov, der er sgu croquie deroppe, der er da en nøgen mand der sidder der. 1: Jaer.. Den har heldigvis også udviklet sig til bedre. Altså for på mange måder, altså øh, der er mange flere ordentlige forhold og det at man har mulighed for at, hvis man er sådan lidt... D: Magelig! 1: Ja og, magelig, og hvis man gerne vil ligge i en stille lejr og sådan nogle ting synes jeg. Det er røv-fedt altså. D: Helt vildt fedt. S: Mhmm, men tror i så man kommer længere væk fra kernen af en festival, hvis det bliver for mageligt? D: Ja lidt. Ja. 1: Det ved jeg ikke, altså der er jo, det er bare, så er dem som der til.. Nogen tiltaler det at være magelig nogen tiltaler det at gøre det andet og så er der bare, der er bare muligheder. D: Jo men synes man kommer lidt væk fra den der morgenmagi, fordi man ikke... Man vågner oppe derhjemme. Nu sover vi hjemme i år. Det er også første gang. S: Ja. D: Så sidder man ikke og bælder bejare fra morgenstunden og prøve at samle skårene fra igår. 1: Men er det ikke bare fordi, når man bliver, altså det holder man op med at synes er sjovt eller... D: Jojo altså.. 1: Det giver mindre mening jo ældre man bliver. D: Jo jo. 1: Og sidde dernede og drikke... Hvad hedder det.. D: En ramme lunkne bajere. 1: Ja æblevin fra morgenen. S: Ser i det som om der måske er forskellige levels at være med i festivalen. Det lyder lidt som om at i... D: Ja. Ja det er også betinget. 1: På en måde favner den jo bredere. Det er jo godt. Altså det må være godt. Det er jo ikke en øh. Det er jo den største festival, så den skal jo være bredest. S: Ja men tror i magien ryger ved at man. At det bliver for bredt måske? D: Ejj. 1: Jeg kan ikke se hvordan noget kan blive for bredt. 2: Næh, jeg tror bare. Der er bare for alle, altså, der er jo. Der jo også nogen mennesker som, når vi er på festival nu, så er der nogen mennesker som har en anden festival som vi slet ikke har berøring med. Øhh jeg synes egentlig at vi kan leve fint side om side. D: Musikken er også blevet en helt anden. Altså der er mega meget pop på Orange. 1: Jaa den er.. D: Og hele goth segmentet som fyldte meget tidligere det er også væk. Det er svært at få et lift af en heavy-rocker. S: Men har det ikke været mere unikt at være der i de tidligere år?

41 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

D: Altså fordi vi var yngre eller fordi det var tidligere? S: Fordi det var tidligere og festivalen havde et lidt andet format? 1: Altså, jo. Jo jo. 2: Altså der var lidt mere overlevelse i det på en eller anden måde. 1: Ja, men jeg tror også det er ens egen tilgang til det, altså det at man, man. Nu klæder vi os mageligt på. Alså regntøj det havde vi fanme ikke tænkt på de første 10 år. Hvorfor fanden skal vi ha regntøj med, altså. D: Ej jeg tror ikke det vare mere magisk for 10 år siden. Jeg tror bare vi var yngre. 1: Jo jo altså, jo jo færre gange du har oplevet det selvfølgelig er det mere magisk tidligere. Selvfølgelig er det det. D: Men tror i ikke at dem der kommer nu og er 17 år har det ligeså optur som vi havde, da vi var 17 år. 1: Jo det har de. Og så spiller de jo også deres musik ligesom de på en eller anden måde forsøgte at gå os i møde dengang. D: Ja ja det er derfor der er the Weekend ned på Orange ikke. 1: Ja (haha) D: Og Trentemøller. S: Øhm, føler i at Roskilde kan lære os Danskere noget eller man lære noget når man kommer hjem, måske? D: Jeg tror det er en ventil. Altså folk er jo også klædt ud. Ligeså snart de kommer herned, så skal de. Altså sådan. S: Gjorde i også det i sin tid. D: Ja. 1: Der var flere sjove hatte i de ironiske 90ere. D: (hahahah) 1: Ja men det var der bare. Det var mere latterligt. Du kunne se flere store grupper med kalkunkostumer på. D: Ja. Ja. 1: På den måde tror jeg. D: Der var også mere nøgenhed. Vi er sgu blevet bronerte. Det er lidt, det savner jeg lidt. S: Det var måske lidt mere hippie-agtigt? D: Jeg ved ikke om det var mere hippie-agtigt. Ej. S: Jeg ved det ikke, jeg har ikke været der for så lang tid siden. D: Ej jeg tror hippie. Eej. 1: Ej det var noget helt andet. Det var jo slet ikke. D: En anden generation ikke. S: Ja det er helt tidligt. 2: Jeg tror faktisk, at grundæggende er der ikke så meget forskel på det. Det er bare.. D: Jeg tænker, jeg kunne godt tænke mig at se billeder igen. Jeg tror folk var mere nøgne. 1: Det tror jeg ikke (haha). S: Men men, i tror måske... Det lyder. D: Tror du ikke også det? 2: Jo. Jo. Jo jo mere nøgenhed. D: Mere nøgenhed, det var godt! S: Men altså de har jo faktisk holdt en deres gennemsnitsalder på 24 rigtig længe. Så det er jo ikke sådan at de har ramt en årgang og så har de tilpasset sig den årgang. 1: Næh. D. Nej nej. 2. Ja det følger med.. D: Det tror jeg er så fint. S: Og så er det måske en afspejling af tendenserne, så når det er når den ændrer sig... 2: Det er bare sådan en, en reflektion af samfundet generelt altså..

42 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

1: Det er jo meningen at vi skal hægtes af på et tidspunkt. Altså så begynder vi at bruge vores penge på forsikringer og sådan nogle andre ting øh og de andre vil stadig gerne ud og fyrer, lægge pengene herude. S: Ja og hvis i stadig rendte rundt med hatte på hernede, så ville det også se sort ud for samfundet, fordi at på et tidspunkt er der nogen der skal købe en forsikring ikke... 1: Word.. (Haha). Det er rigtig. Det er ikke engang løgn. D: Men øh, man kommer jo også. Altså vi rendte jo rundt med vores. Jeg drak da stort set kun bajere ude i campingområdet.. 2: Jaja for at spare penge. 1: Ja man slæbte kasser af øl i bælter hele vejen herned ikke. D: Jeg har klaret en hel Roskilde på 510 kr. Altså.. S: Ja. D: Det jo brugt på en aften. Nu. Snildt. 2: Ja ja. 1: Det er fordi du er dame. D: Ja. 1: Og kan danse. D: Nu var 510 kr selvfølgelig også flere penge dengang (hahahah). 1: (haha) D: Hvad er din øhh, hvad hedder det vinkel, hvad er din tese? S: Øhm min tese er at Michel Foucault har skrevet denne her Heterotopia, øhm ja teori, om at utopia det er noget ikke kan nå, men at der findes de her Heterotopiaer som er steder på Jorden, som kommer tættest på det, som ligesom er en spejling i, i et utopia, men som er på Jorden. Som findes. 1: Heroin!! S: Heroin. Der kan du komme tæt på. Han siger at der er mange steder, f.eks. festival kan sætte nogle ting sammen og referere til mange andre steder. Han snakker om spaces meget. Og han siger at festival er et heterotopia. Og min tese er at: Er Roskilde et heterotopia. Har det ændret sig? D: Og det ændrer sig? S: Om det har ændret sig. D: Men emnet om det har det eller er det en anden heterotopia? S: Bare først og fremmest om det er et heterotopia ud fra de her 6 principper han har. D: Den kender jeg ikke lige helt. 1: Det må du hjem og finde ud af, men altså det. Det er turen til Mallorca også, for, for dem over 60. Altså det er jo også et heterotopia. De tager et sted hen som der kun findes i deres altså i deres drømme. Eller som, eller som, altså man tillægger det også den der, altså man vil også. Man ønsker det også ikke. Som den der, man bruger vel alt den placebo man kan få også ikke. Altså og ligesom siger, nu tager vi et eller andet sted her og så bliver det her det vildeste sted og den vildelste ferie og det er bare grisefest. D: Men jeg tænkter på hvad. Det er rigtig godt spørgsmål ud fra den tankegang, jeg sådan, hvornår er Roskilde fedest. Hvornår synes man det er mest magisk. Hvad er det for en. Hvornår fungerer det og er bedst? 1: Når man er 24. D: Jo jo, men det er sådan lidt ... 1: Ej (ahah) D: (hahah.) Objektivt kriterie. Hvornår er det fedest? 1: Når det ikke regner. Hvad mener du? Altså sådan.. D: Nej men jeg mener, der hvor jeg synes Roskilde er fedest tror jeg, det er det der tidspunkt, hvor man ikke havde planlagt hvad det lige var der skulle ske og så møder man et eller andet og så er man i nuet på en måde som man ikke havde forudset. Og så sidder man og laver et eller andet. Ølbowling øhhh. Et eller andet, som .. Man falder i et hul ikke. Det var vildt fedt at komme her til boy-band-banko ikke. Ikke planlagt, det regner ad helved til og så var der tørt og varmt og boyband-banko og man kunne synge med. Det var helt perfekt. 1: På den måde er der jo flere tilbud. Det er nemmere at lave, og finde noget man kan shoppe lidt rundt og nå et eller andet. Men det er jo også det det skal være. Det er jo en ø det her. Altså det er jo ø som forsvinder igen, når vi tager herfra. Øh så har vi været her og så også selvom vi ikke har fået den oplevelse vi troede vi skulle have, så tror jeg vi er i stand til at bilde os selv ind at det var på en eller anden måde federe end det var. På en eller anden måde. Vi, vi, man har brug for denne her ventil, som hun sagde ikke altså.

43 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Tager man noget med hjem fra øen? 1: Øhhh. Jah. S: Andet end tømmermænd og bare være helt træt. 1: Ja man tager jo også herned for at hente noget. S: Nårhh du skulle ned og hente en dame? D: (haha) 1: (Haha) Nej nej men man skal.. Jahh ja selvølgelig. Og nogle tømmermænd ikke.. Men man tager vel også herned for at.. Man skal jo have et eller andet. Man henter et eller andet hernede ikke og det, hvis ikke man har fået det, så har man jo bare været dårlig på festival. Så er det også ens egen skyld eller hvad man skal sige (haha). D: Ja man kommer hjem med nogle oplevelser. 1: Ja gode oplevelser ikke. Og dem er der jo totalt sat op til at vi kan hæve hele tiden, når vi bare har vores armbånd. Det er fedt. Så på den måde er der mere på hylderne. S: Ja. Fedt. D: Du får også nogle gode visuelle.. Jeg havde kraftedeme ikke troet da vi stod ved mindelunden til Foo Fighters da de alle sammen skulle tisse, de her piger, denne her måde de sådan klamrede sig til træerne imens de tissede. Og så præsterer hun alligevel at ryge bagover og ned i det der pis. 1: Piger der ligger ned og tisser. Klart! S: Det ser man ikke lige. 1: Jeg mødte en amerikaner i bussen på vej herned. Det var også bare meget sjovt at høre hans optik på den, sådan på vejen ind gennem. S: Hvad sagde han? Havde han været her før eller hvad? D: Nej nej han kom, han var landet med flyveren fra Berlin 2 timer tidligere og cyklede rundt i København og hans konklusion var at det har vare bare, jeg ved ikke han sagde, mere laid back. Folk sad og tissede ved hegnet og han var bare sådan (laver store øjne). 1: Men hvis han kun har set Danmark på Roskilde, så lad ham endelige sprede det rygte om at vi er den ø. For vi er da også stolte af det her ikke. Altså det er vi ikke. Det er, at have arbejdet her en masse år og været med til at sætte det her.. Holde det her tog kørende. S: Har i også selv arbejdet hernede? 1: Ja jeg har arbejdet her i mange år? S: Er man mere en del af det når man arbejder her? D: Nej det er bare noget andet. 1: Næh. Jo altså man bliver, man føler sig måske mere sådan ansvarlig for festivalen på en eller anden måde. Eller. Jo man vil gerne være en god ambassadør og sørge for at.. Jo man tænker helt klart at man er på arbejde. Det tror jeg man gør. Altså. S: Okay. D. Men kun mens man er på arbejde. 1: Ja ja kun mens man er på arbejde. D: Hvor mange gange har du været her? S: Jeg tror det er min 8ene gang i år. D: Nå okay okay. 1: Så du kender det. S: Jeg har været alt det igennem i siger, bare lidt... Ja. Ikke så mange år siden. Men fedt. Jamen tak 1: Det var så lidt. S: Det er virkelig godt!

23 year old Canadian girl in front of Orange Stage 19.29 Friday

S: It's probably gonna be hard to hear on this recording. G: That's okay, we'll talk really loud. S: Okay, so where are you from?

44 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

G: I'm from Canada. Do you wanna know where in Canada? S: No that's fine. Canada is good. And how old are you? G: I'm 23, I'm almost 24. S: Nice. G: In two months. S: And you came to Denmark just for Roskilde Festival? G: It was a big reason for me, ehm, I was here two years ago at Roskilde 2015 and I had so much fun! And I wanted to see my friends again, who are Danish. So I wanted to come for that. Aaaand it was the perfect time for me to take a vacation, sooo I decided that it was the right choice. S: Nice, okay. I'm studying how Roskilde Festival is like a society within the society. A small community for a temporary time. G: Absolutely. S: Do you agree with that? G: Absolutely 100 percent. S: Okay. In what way? G: In.. S: How... Do you act different when you are here? Is it.... G: I think people at festivals, especially this festival, are the most human you can get, you know. We are just human beings, and it takes away everything else. We are just here, we are present and... I don't know. I love humans. I think people are fascinating, and it's really nice to see that like raw side of them. Like very organic, very natural. Just being a human. S: Do you think it is different than the Danish society in Copenhagen, because we hear that Danish people can be quite cold. But how are they... Is it different here? Have you noticed anything? G: Ehm, yes. I... There's a little bit of a difference, but the difference is when you are just in Copenhagen you always have to make the first move to talk to someone and then when you talk to them they are the nicest kindest, they wanna help you, they are like really really beatiful humans. I find obviously that's like a big bubble term, because there's always someone that's not gonna be like that, but like, here everyone's more open and like ehm, would come up to you just as much as you would come up to them. In Copenhagen you have to come up to them more than they can come up to you. S: Yeah. G: I don't know if that makes any sense. S: I see your point. So here they get the courage to tage the first move... So you notice a different behaviour? G: Yeah, I do but it's subbtle. S: Yeah. What about you on a festival? How do you act? Do you, like, do you get into this bubble and act different or do you just...? G: Ehm, I try and be.. On a daily basis I try and be as human and as real as possible, so I think it's easier to do that here than to do in like the outside world, but I do notice a difference because I, ehm, I feel more natural here. Just doing whatever I wanna do, like just, whatever kind of, ehm, like not instinct but like any type of idea like I can do it. S: Yeah you can just.. And not. No one is gonna judge? G: Exactly. S: So what about time? Do you think about the time down here? G: Time? S: Yeah, like like, do you look at the clock? How is this rythm different from your original rythm? G: Because, you have nowhere to be but all day to get there! S: Yeah, oohh that's good. That's really good. G: And especially before the music starts, that's EVERYTHING. Nowhere to be and all day to get there! Here it's like, okay we have to focus a little more because we wanna see what we wanna see, type of thing. S: Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Do you think that people learn a lot, or do you think that you learn a lot to go here and take it back to society? Do you think there is some kind of innovation or, some kind of, some kind of learning? G: Yeah. There's this... (laughs) I have this written in a book (take's out note-book). These are a lot of drunk thoughts and like just things. S: (I read from random page): "We have no idea what's going on!" Nice. G: And it's amazing.

45 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

S: Okay, so now she's taking out this little note-book and she's showing it to me, I'm talking to the speaker. G: Yeah. S: About all these creative ideas she wrote down in this cool notebook. G: And then sometimes I have to sign a contract. Or someone will sign a contract. So Alex, me, will stay perfect for all of her life. And then my contracter signed it and I signed it. S: Awesome. G: But I also have, ehm, oh. Do you wanna hear my favourite quote? S: Yeah. G: And this is one of the only pages you're not allowed to write on. S: Okay. G: "The definition of love is elusive, which is why we write about it endlessly!" S: That's fucking deep. That's an awesome quote. Do you.. Would you do this notebook outside.. Do you do it? G: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, I have this. I've had this for a while, ehm, but like I've really used it more here than I have anywhere else because people have been saying really funny things and doing really funny things that like, it has to be documented so we can't forget it! Which is why this is also so awesome (pointing at my recorder). But I also have another one that I wanna show you! "We misplaced a 24 pack of beer. FUCK!" (laughing) S: FUCK. (hahaha) G: And then I also have this globe. So I'm gonna describe it to you, ehm. Written in this book there's is a drawing of the earth with an arrow pointing to a specific spot which underneath it says: "We are here". And that is very very important. S: Okay. Why is that important? G: Because, you just have to enjoy where you are! So like this is really fun. So we are here right now and that's, that's the only place the we should be right now! S: Do you think it is easier to go all in in a place like this. To be here, really be here compared to outside? G: Do I think it's easier? S: To just really be in the moment in a festival? G: Yes, because everyone else feels like that! S: Yeah. Yeah that's what I wanted to hear (laughs). Okay, ehm, let me think, let me think! I think that's pretty good! Thank you very much! G: NO. THANK YOU! S: THANK YOU! Can you hold this..

Extra quotes G: "If we were having anymore fun, we'd be dreaming!"

Extra: S: I better not loose this phone cause then I'm fucked. G: It's like, I better not loose this book. S: Yeah, that's your memories! G: Okay one of the beatiful things about festival is that people know what you are thinking before you think it. For example. Okay you have to make this sound better when you write it out. S: I will. G: Okay say you are standing there with at cigarette before it's lid. Someone else comes with a lighter before you have to think that you have to light it. Or you are sitting in a chair and there is a nice ice cold beer out of reach and you are about to reach for it and then someone else gives you the beer. And then it's like, I didn't think this could get any better and then THAT happened. S: Thank you! G: NO. Thank you!! S: You have all the good quotes. I love it! lukas interview transkribering:

46 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

hvor gammel er du? 25 m/k: dreng okkupation: jeg arbejder hvor boede du på roskilde: c frivillig/gæst?: gæst. betalt billet kan du fra en skala forklare mig hvordan tid er anderledes eller ikke anderledes når du er på festival i forhold til derhjemme? tiden går hurtigere. jeg kan ikke forklare det på en skala. hvordan? hvad går hurtigt? dagene. det føles som om de går hurtigere. prøv at forklar eller beskriv hvad du laver på en dag som er det samme/ikke det samme som du laver derhjemme? det er jo ikke det samme. men du spiser vel stadig morgenmad og børster tænder? det gør jeg, men jeg bruger ikke tid på at gå ned eller op og gøre det. jeg er jo i min lejlighed når jeg spiser morgenmad eller børster tænder, så jeg skal ikke bevæge mig så meget. men du skal bevæge dig meget (på roskilde) for at få mad? skulle man ikke det? det syntes jeg. hvor købte du morgenmad henne? det er forskelligt. jeg fik brunch en dag, det var faktisk okay. så fik jeg spaghetti fra dåsen – carbonara, det er jo lidt morgenmadsagtigt med æg og bacon i. hvordan kan det være at du tager på roskilde? i forhold til et andet sted. hvorfor roskilde? fordi det er blevet en tradition efterhånden jo, at tage derned med alle ens venner. med de samme venner? ja, der er ikke nogen gange hvor i tænker – lad os tage et andet sted hen? jo det overvejer vi, men ikke så meget festivaler. så er det en tur til et sted hvor man kan gå i byen. men så ville i stadig tage på roskilde? ja, måske. man har ikke altid råd til at tage alle de steder hen man gerne vil. men du prioriterer at tage på roskilde? ja, det gør jeg. men hvor meget sparer du op? jeg sparer ikke rigtig op, jeg bruger mine feriepenge? brænder dem bare når de kommer. hvordan synes du du opfører dig anderledes når du er på festival? jeg synes ikke jeg er så anderledes for at være ærlig. jeg tror måske jeg danser mere på roskilde end på en normal tur i byen. sådan opfører jeg mig anderledes. jeg drikker også mere end jeg gør normalt. hvad så når musikdagene åbner? er du mere nysgerrig og opsøgende? jeg er desværre ikke så opsøgende og nysgerrig. fordi jeg er doven og skæv. og så tager du på festival fordi dine venner også er der? ja, jeg ville ikke tage derned alene ihvertfald hvor meget tid bruger du så på at planlægge campen eller hvad du skal se? dagen før bruger vi til at planlægge campen. hvad jeg skal se? det ved jeg ikke, jeg ser på programmet og ser hvad jeg gerne vil se. jeg bruger ikke rigtig så meget tid på det, jeg kigger det bare igennem. jeg hører ikke rigtig nogen bands jeg ikke kender, det burde jeg måske. hvad så når de bliver offentliggjort? går du så hen og undersøger hvad det er? jeg lytter lidt til det, men ikke meget. så hvis der offentliggjort en headliner du ikke kender? selvfølgelig går jeg ind og tager et kig på det.

47 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen hvad så med, når du er afsted eller kommet hjem, tænker du så over hvordan du opfører dig anderledes eller hvordan andre opfører sig anderledes? nej, det er ikke rigtig noget jeg tænker på. jeg synes måske at folk er mere åbne og hjælpsomme? måske, jeg er ikke så hjælpsom. hvad er mest vigtigt? opvarmningsdagene eller musikdagene? musikdagene. opvarmningsdagene er ikke så specielt vigtige for mig overhovedet. de er ikke vigtige for mig men for mange andre virker det som om. hvorfor tror du det? det er et godt spørgsmål. det ved jeg ikke, folk skal bare gøre det de har lyst til før de skal ud og høre noget musik. det ved jeg ikke. jeg ved ikke hvorfor det er vigtigt for folk, men det virker som om det er vigtigt for folk. jeg må bare relatere til mig egen camp ik? der er nogen som går hårdt ind de første par dage, og så må de tage hjem for de er for smadrede. fordi de har festet, taget stoffer eller.. bare for smadrede senere hen på ugen. så tager de hjem. to af mine venner fra campen tog hjem om torsdagen. så virker det jo ikke som om at musikprogrammet er så vigtigt? for mig er det, men ikke for dem. men du undersøger stadig ikke hvad der er af nyt musik? nej, jeg kigger på det ik har du så nogensinde gået forbi en eller anden koncert på vej hjem og så gået ind og hørt den? selvfølgelig har du gjort det i år? det tror jeg ikke. gået forbi en koncert og stoppet op.. nej hvad er vigtigt for dig? min camp og mine venner – ja lytte til musik jeg kender – ja det er vigtigt at opdage nyt musik – ja, det er jo så ikke så vigtigt for mig aktiviteter på camping – nej, overhovedet ikke. fuck nej. nej nej. kunst – nej at feste – ja at slappe af – ja. ved at ryge. hvor tit tager du hjem? jeg var hjem en dag i år. det var første gang jeg var hjemme i de ni år jeg har taget afsted. du har været afsted i ni år? ja uden pause med en undtagelse da du kom hjem efte rroskilde, hvordan har du ændret dig? blev du ked af at komme hjem – nej blev du glad for at komme hjem – ja har du opdaget noget nyt musik – nej blev du udfordret i nogle opfattelser eller noget der rykkede noget i dig – nej har du lært noget nyt – det har jeg sikkert men det ved jeg ikke. absolut ikke blevet klogere af at tage på festival når du er her, føler du et tilhørsforhold – ja det har jeg da. jeg synes bare man kender stedet så godt nu. et hjem uden for hjemmet. det er spændende at se hvad de har lavet om, om de har byttet rundt på tingene. ja jeg har et tilhørsforhold til roskilde har du nogen traditioner? nej, det tror jeg ikke.

Transcription Vildanda Interview:

fortæl lidt om din rolle på roskilde, gæst/frivillig? hvor meget var du der?:

48 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen jeg var gæst på roskilde og jeg kom tirsdag aften og sov der indtil onsdag, kom tilbage onsdag, var der onsdag, torsdag, fredag og lørdag men jeg er taget hjem hver aften. jeg har været der med et almindeligt armbånd. hvordan synes du at tid er anderledes på roskilde ifht dagligdagen? der er jo ingen.. jeg skal jo ikke noget. så på den måde er det ligegyldigt om klokken er ti om formiddagen eller klokken er syv om aftenen, for jeg kan sidde et sted og drikke en øl og der er ikke nogen der dømmer mig uanset hvad klokken er, så på den måde kan man godt mærke at tiden er forskubbet. når man er hjemme står man op på et tidspunkt, spiser morgenmad, spiser frokost på et tidspunkt, spiser aftensmad. det gør man ikke dernede, det hele er forskubbet. og det er ligegyldigt. det er ikke engang sikkert at man spiser.. tid bliver ligegyldigt, det bliver fyldende. du tager en lur på et tidspunkt, det er ikke at du sover om natten, du tager en lur – om du gør det om eftermiddagen, om morgenen eller om natten, det er lidt op til dig selv. på den måde er tid ligedyligt. det bliver lidt mere vigtigt når musikken kommer, så begynder man at gå mere op i hvad klokken er men kun i forhold til programmet men ikke i forhold til ens liv. hvordan synes du så det er at være på roskilde i forhold til udenfor-verdenen? det er frit. det er lettere at være på roskilde. den eufori af at føle at du kan gøre lige præcis hvad der passer dig og lige når det passer dig, inden for selvfølgelig lov og orden. det er bare den frihed der er, du kan gøre præcis hvad du vil når du vil, der er ikke nogen der dømmer dig, der synes det er underligt at det første du får om morgenen er en irish coffee. når du tager derned føler jeg lidt det er som om at der ikke er andet der eksisterer, udenfor verdenen bliver lidt ligegyldigt. ja. jeg kan mærke at jeg synes det var rigtigt svært at folk tog derned om lørdagen og jeg først kom derned om tirsdagen. det kommer jeg ikke til at gøre igen, det syntes jeg var rigtig nederen. at der gik tid før du kom? ja at der var nogen før dig? ja. der kunne tage hul på det og man ikke var en del af det. egentlig havde jeg tænkt at musikdagene var nok for mig, men jeg synes at man kan dele roskilde op i før musikken og når musikken er der, for før musikken der er det meget let og frit og du kan gøre lige hvad du vil, når du vil, du kan danse lidt ved den ene højtaler, gå tilbage til din camp. alle er sammen men alligevel ikke. men når musikken begynder så kommer der et tidsaspekt og stressfaktor ind i det fordi der er ting du skal nå og steder du gerne vil være go folk du måske gerne vil mødes med. jeg vil helt sikkert tage derned lørdag næste år, jeg vil ikke vente igen. du tager hele ugen? ja hvordan synes du – nu siger du tid er forskelligt, men hvordan synes du du opfører dig anderledes? jeg er mere ligeglad med hvem jeg er. det er ligegyldigt. hvis folk jeg ikke kender kommer og spørger hvad jeg hedder kan man nærmest sige “jamen hvad synes du jeg skal hedde” og det er det der ligesom er fedt. man kan bare, der hvor vi sad og spillede ølbowling og en fyr spurgte om han måtte kysse mig hvor jeg sidder “det må du da gerne – hvis du drikker min øl!” det er jo ligegyldigt og det vil jeg aldrig gøre normalt. men tror du det er fordi det bare er en uge? ja. det er helt sikkert. man har slet ikke.. . fremtiden er jo ligegyldigt, så på den måde er der jo ikke nogen der dømmer dig, det kan jo ikke have nogen konsekvenser for dig med mindre du gør noget der er ulovligt så er der ikke noget der kan have konsekvenser for dig på roskilde. der findes ikke noget udenfor – nu sker det her bare nu? det er som om det der sker på roskilde det er bare... roskilde. der er ikke nogen af ens venner der kommer senere og siger “prøv hør her, du var for meget” det er klart man skal ikke gøre noget ulovligt, det er klart hvis en jeg kendte voldtog en ville jeg dømme ham eller hende resten af livet for det gør du sgu ikke lige, det er ikke cool selv fordi du er på roskilde, eller hvis de slog nogen ned du ved, men at man brækker sig fire gange på en dag så gør man jo det og bliver ved men synes du så andre, kan du mærke at dem du er sammen med eller dem omkring dig opfører sig på en anden måde? ja, det kan jeg godt, men ikke grænseoverskridende. folk er bare mere letsindige, det hele bliver lidt lettere og hyggligere, men bliver bedre venner og bliver tættere.. det kan selvfølgelig også have noget at gøre med at man aldrig bliver ædru og aldrig rigtig får sovet så meget, men man bliver lidt mere åben – også over for fremmede mennesker, ihvertfald vores gruppe, jeg tror ikke vi er lige så åbne, ikke at vi er helt lukkede men vi er ikke lige så prone til at bare møde nogen og sige “Jamen så fester vi bare med jer”, der kan jeg godt mærke at folk synes at nu er vi hernede. der er ikke kun os der er en gruppe, alle på roskilde er ligesom i samme båd. der er en slags gruppementalitet for alle 80.00 campister? ja, man passer på hinanden og man er i det sammen. jeg kunne også mærke især sidste år, at der var en os-og-dem stemning i forhold til dem der var der hele ugen og dem der havde en dagsbillet? ja, men jeg synes også det er meget forskelligt med dem der er på en dagsbillet. det er kun mit andet år på roskilde og jeg skal helt sikkert med næste år og jeg skal helt sikkert ned hele ugen næste år. men jeg har lige skulle navigere i det, og skulle finde ud af hvad er det her

49 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen egentlig for noget – og jeg skal også derned på mine præmisser. men jeg vil godt kunne tage derned på en dagsbillet, men jeg vil ikke kunne tage hjem igen. for mig der er hele lejlivet også federe end selve koncerterne, og helt ærligt, jeg synes det er fedt at høre god musik og det er nice, men for mig kan det at høre koncerter godt være meget overvældende fordi jeg er så lille. og fordi man bliver mast og presset fra alle sider, så jeg synes egentlig alt det imellem er meget federe. det er selvfølgelig fedt når man kommer til en koncert og sidder på nogens skuldre fordi så kan man se noget og opleve det hele, men det er ikke fedt at skulle blive båret ud af pitten fordi man når tidspunkter hvor man er bange og tænker “this is when i die.” men det har jo kun noget med min størrelse at gøre. vil du overveje en anden festival? synes du roskilde er en bedre festival end andre, eller tager du mest afsted fordi dine venner gør? nu har jeg jo ikke været på så mange andre festivaler hvor meget betyder camp-livet og venneaspektet for dig? det betyder ret meget, det synes jeg er ret hyggeligt. nu var jeg jo lidt rundt i forskellige camps i år, og jeg synes det var fedt at se forskellige måder at være på roskilde på. for eksempel anna på 15 år der er på roskilde for første gang, der er på roskilde på en helt anden måde end vores camp som er lidt ældre og så lines camp der lige er tanden over også er på en hel anden måde, jeg synes det er fedt at der er plads til alle og gøre det på sine egne præmisser. hvordan var de anderledes? (anna), det var bare helt ned, og det var jo deres første gang og for dem var alt bare vildt og de hyggede sig, og for dem var det nok også ligeså meget for at sige at de havde været på roskilde. de lå jo i kø fra fredag eftermiddag og jeg tror de fandt ud af at de havde de nok ikke behøvet fordi de fik en lorteplads og du ved, de var bare kolde og de hele var nederen og de havde ikke lige nogle curlingforældre som gad komme og hjælpe dem vel? så jeg tror de havde det sjovt. hvor lines camp har været der i rigtig mange år så de havde alle mulige traditioner forbundet og det synes jeg var rigtig fedt. har line altid boet i camp med dem? ja. og det er jo folk der kommer alle mulige steder fra, alle mulige forskellige og alligevel er det roskilde der binder dem sammen på en eller anden måde. og det er jo ret sjovt, at så er der en der arbejder for mærsk og line arbejder for danske bank, og der er en revisor og en advokat, men på roskilde har alle ikke været i bad i fire dage og alle går i gummistøvler. hvor boede de henne? de boede i P. og de har forskellige traditioner forbundet til de forskellige dage. så har de en long island dag og de holder bryllup og det synes jeg er meget sjovt. jeg kan godt mærke i vores camp at det tit skal være højere vildere, og det forstår jeg godt fordi drengene er i starten af tyverne og jeg fylder snart tredje. jeg har prøvet højere vildere, og det er ikke fordi det ikke er hyggeligt, men jeg tror mere jeg er til lines camps måde at gøre det på, men jeg synes måske alligevle de er lidt for stille og rolige. så jeg skal nok have fundet en eller anden balance ind i mellem. halvt det ene sted, halvt det andet. ja, det tror jeg. jeg kan mærke at jeg synes det var nederen at tage hjem i år, men no chance at jeg ville sove i vores camp eller gå helt ned til line. så kan man jo ligeså godt tage hjem. måske næste år bliver det en mellem ting, måske leje et telt. så er det hele jo sat op og så kan jeg komme ned og få camp-livet. vores camp synes jeg lå bedre end sidste år, fordi der ikke lå de der helvedes tekno-idioter bag os. men man ved jo aldrig. men om jeg vil tage på andre festivaler, det ved jeg sgu ikke. jeg var selvfølgelig på northside. hvordan var det? jeg synes det var nederen det der med at man ikke havde en camp, at det var en dagsfestival der åbnede kl 13 og lukkede kl 02. det var nederen mellem koncerterne at man ikke havde et sted at tage hen! vi var jo også ramt af at vejret var sindssygt dårligt, så man kunne ikke engang sætte sig på græsset. det var bare sådan mellem koncerter, så går vi lige herhen og her hen, der var ikke noget tidspunkt hvor man bare kunne slappe af og nyde at man bare var der. der var ikke den samme stemning som på roskilde af at “nu er vi i det her sammen”. jeg tror lidt at når vi tog på rustur, så var det også.. det var der vi tog hen, vi var i det her sammen, det var hårdt og det var sjovt. man er bare i sådan en boble. jeg tror bare hvis vi holdt en rustur i København hvor vi startede kl 13 og sluttede kl 02 og mødtes igen dagen efter, det ville være amputeret på en måde. og det var det jeg følte ved northside, amputeret. at det var lidt underligt. det var bare grøn koncert over flere dage. det at man kan gå væk fra det så nemt gør at man ikke får samme sammenhold eller tillørsforhold? nemlig. jeg synes det fede ved roskilde er at man kan altid lige finde nogen i campen og hvis ikke der er nogen kan man altid lige gå hjem og sætte sig og slappe af. man bor der bare, man har sine ting med og man er der bare. det synes jeg er rigtig hyggeligt. det er også derfor jeg var ked af at skulle hjem og sove i år. hvordan var det at tage fra roskilde til københavn? det gjorde bare så ondt i maven, bare at være derhjemme og vågne derhjemme. det er meget federe at, selvom man måske kun har sovet i to timer, så vælter man bare ud af et telt og så får man en øl. og så bliver verden bare bedre. så kan man måske sove igen lidt senere. det der sammenhold, det er virkelig, det er hyggeligt. det er rart at der er mennesker omkring dig. man kan være sammen med folk uden at være sammen med folk på en måde, men når man kommer hjem, det er bare så ensomt. man bliver virkelig ramt af en ensom, tom følelse og tænker hvad laver jeg her. hvordan havde du da du tog hjem for sidste gang?

50 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen jeg kan mærke at jeg trak den meget lørdag aften for jeg havde bare ikke lyst til at tage hjem. men så fik jeg mange jägermeister shots og så måtte jeg tage hjem. men jeg er rigtig glad for at jeg bor sammen med Line og hun også var der, jeg tror at hvis man bare kommer hjem alene... det må bare være frygteligt. bare ligge derhjemme og vide at der er et helt år til, og man savner det hele, man er træt og glad for at være hjemme men man savner bare alle og det hele. det må være hårdt at være alene når man kommer hjem, det synes jeg ikke der er nogen der skal være. man vil bare tilbage til den der frihed, hvor man ikke har nogen pligter. man behøver ikke engang at gå i bad. det er jo en ret stor ting ihvertfald i vores samfund er at du er soigneret. det er jo fuldstændig ligegyldigt. man børster jo sine tænder for sin egen skyld, fordi det begynder at føle lidt frottéagtig ik? men det er jo ikke noget man skal, så det er jo ikke engang noget man behøver. det er ret fedt. jeg forestiller mig lidt at klientellet er anderledes på smukfest, at det er mere ordenligt. men jeg ved det jo ikke, men jeg tror det er mere pænt. nu havde jeg jo Bo med.. hvordan var det for ham? han havde forestillet sig noget helt andet. han har aldrig været på roskilde før, så vi kom derind tidligt. vi tog toget til West for at gå igennem det, vi tog ikke ned i campen fordi jeg tænkte de sov, altså klokken var ti. Så gik vi ned af boulevarden og ned af broen og ind gennem dream city, og jeg tror han var overrasket over at der var rent. men altså, det er jo festivalspladsen det er jo ikke helt smadret. jeg tror han havde forestillet sig at det var mere klamt og bøvet, men her hvor der er musik er der jo pænt og rent og ordentligt. ja, så er der lidt lang kø på toiletterne og folk tisser over det hele, men sådan er det. han var vildt glad for det, han synes virkelig det var sjovt. han (Bo) lagde selv mærke til at det der var nogen på dagsbillet og det der var nogen der var der hele ugen, for man kan se på det tøj folk tager på, der er jo ikke nogen der tænker på hvordan man ser ud, det er jo praktisk eller det man vågnede i. og så er der alle de hvide sneaks der kommer... jeg er endda taget hjem hver dag, men mam ved hvordan det er og hvordan man kommer til at se ud. jeg gider ikke have mit pæne tøj på dernede, det bliver jo fucking klamt. jeg tror ikke engang jeg ville have hvide sneaks på hvis der var godt vejr. der er jo stadig tis over det hele. der er nogen der gør det for fashion, men jeg forestiller mig der er nogen festivaler der er mere fashion end roskilde er.. men jeg ved det ikke. jeg tænker jeg godt kunne tænke mig at opleve nogle af de udenlandske festivaler for at se hvordan det er. men du gider ikke smuk? ikke lige nu, måske når jeg bliver ældre. jeg tror bare det er noget andet, men jeg ved det jo ikke, det er bare mine foredomme. og så er roskilde nemt fordi det er så tæt på, det skal man ikke undervurdere. det er jo nederen at tage hjem lørdag men det er også nemt. altså man skal ikke køre i tog i fire timer. jeg ved ikke, smuk.. måske? musikken er lidt mere kedelig ik? og det synes jeg er ærgerligt. det fede ved roskilde synes jeg er at man bliver eksponeret for så meget forskelligt musik. du ser også meget du ikke kender i forvejen ikke? jo, det gør jeg. eller nogen jeg kun lige kender et par numre fra. jeg kan ret godt lide elektronisk musik og der synes jeg programmet var rigtigt godt i år. det kunne jeg ret godt lide. og Copenhagen Phil havde jeg jo aldrig hørt ellers, og det er måske en af de fedeste koncertoplevelser jeg nogensinde har haft. det var så godt. og jeg opdagede i år på roskilde hvor meget der er ud over musikken og hvor meget der ellers er. Bo og jeg var til stage dining og det var jo et genialt koncept, det var virkelig fedt og jeg tror at jeg skal dyrke det meget mere, det der sker rundt omkring. de har jo mange fede tiltag? ja, fordi vejret var sygt dårligt havnede vi i Art City hvor der var alle mulige talks, og det synes jeg var rigtig fedt. jeg så også nøgenløb for første gang i år. det er en oplevelse. det er så absurb, dert er hvad, 30 mennesker der løber rundt nøgne, og før de skal løbe skal de lige gå runden. det var så syret. men jeg tror bare jeg skal blive lidt bedre til at opdrive de ting der sker rundt omkring og selv sige ok jeg kunne vildt godt tænke mig at holde petanque tournament, det er sjovt og man glemmer lidt hvor mange tømmermænd man har og så kan man spille lidt petanque. hvor meget af musikken undersøger du før du kommer derned? eller er det først noget du tager stilling til når du kommer derned? både og. det sore navne er dem jeg pejler efter som regel. så hører jeg ret meget en spotify liste, hvis der er et nummer eller to jeg godt kan lige tænker jeg det kunne jeg da godt tage til. men jeg er ikke så låst fast, hvis i siger at i gerne vil med til noget, fint så prøver jeg at tage hen og høre det. men solange for eksempel det ville jeg høre. det var en mega fed koncert, det synes jeg virkelig. det var så vildt. jeg synes også den sorte skole gjorde det rigtig godt, det hele spillede bare for dem.

Transcription Mari and Rasmus hvor gamle er i, hvor kommer i fra og hvor boede i fra på roskilde? mari: 26, frederiksberg, boede i c38 rasmus: 20 år, boede i l, holbæk hvad laver du når du ikke er på roskilde? mari: så arbejder jeg i PA consulting rasmus: havemand var du frivillig eller havde du købt en billet? mari: jeg havde købt en billet

51 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen rasmus: frivillig prøv at forklar, hvordan tid er anderledes på festivalen? opfattelsen af tid? hvordan har tid en anden betydning? rasmus: det har ikke nogen betydning mari: jo der er koncerter man skal nå, men det er det eneste der har betydning rasmus: ja hvornår koncerterne er, ellers har man al den tid i verden mari: det er jo det eneste koncept om tid man har i forhold til hvilke koncerter man skal nå, og om man kan nå at spise imellem. kan man nå tilbage til campen eller ikke, hvor lang tid tager det. man kigger jo egentlig aldrig på klokken, kun for at se hvornår koncerten. det er kun derfor man kigger på klokken. rasmus: om morgen, det er ligegyldigt med tid der. om vi vågner kl to mari: “nå okay, men der var heller ikke noget vi skulle se”. det er ligesom den eneste justification for tid. så man glemmer tiden lidt, men det er også det som gør at man spiser ikke rigtig måltider, man spiser bare når man er sulten. jeg føler at til daglig så spiser man kl 7, klokken 12 spiser jeg frokost og klokken 6 spiser jeg aftensmad. på roskilde er det bare sådan – “jeg spiser når jeg er sulten, hvis jeg er sulten. måske. hvis jeg har tid. og der ikke er for lang kø.” hvordan synes i så at i opfører jer anderledes på festival? i forhold til ikke-festival? er der nogen ting i gør på fesitvalen som i ikke ville gøre i det rigtige liv og vice versa? mari: jeg tror jeg er mere- jeg er et mere opmærksomt og kærligt menneske. folk er mere hyggelige på roskilde, end man er til daglig. folk er mere opmærksomme på at du er okay. og åben og tilbøjelig til at gå bort og tjekke – til eksempel de to drenge som havde drukket for meget tequila, jeg ville nok ikke nødvendigvis have brugt en halv time af mit liv på at sidde og hjælpe to 14 år gamle drenge. man er nok mere opmærksom på andre mennesker og hyggelig og søde. og mere large. rasmus: meget mere large mari: mere sådan, det er okay at blive skubbet til. jeg ved det ikke hvorfor tror du nødvendigvis at vi er mere large? mari: man har jo sådan en fællesskab følelse ik? at man har noget sammen, at man har noget som knytter en tættere mere end at vi alle bor i København. men vi alle er på roskilde sammen, det er den samme type oplevelse. så man har ligesom et andet forhold til hinanden. og så er jeg nok mere.. afslappet. igen det spørgsmål om tid rasmus: ja, man skal ikke nå noget. man har al den tid man vil have. mari: man tænker ikke rigtig på de ting man vanligvis tænker på. at man skal betale regninger eller købe mad, alle de ting tæker man overhovedet ikke på mens man er på festival. man er meget mere carefree. det er meget svært at relatere til ting udenfor? mari: jeg synes også, specielt i år hvor jeg rejste så meget frem og tilbage, så følte jeg mig sådan fremmed hver gang jeg var i københavn. jeg følte mig vældig meget som en outsider i københavn, selv om man går i almindelig-jeg havde jo arbejdstøj på og skulle på arbejde, de mennesker vidste jo ikke at jeg havde været på roskilde, jeg tænkte “i ved jo ikke at der findes noget andet – og det er der jeg bor nu, det er mit hjemme.” så jeg følte mig ikke hjemme når man er hjemme. man er bare indenom for at hente nogle ting, før man skal hjem til roskilde. det bliver vældigt sådan, det bliver sådan meget mærkelig. “jeg er bare her fordi jeg skal være her. men det er jo i telt jeg bor lige nu, det er det som er mit hjem.” hvor meget betyder det for jer at jeres venner eller nogen i kender er på festivalen? mari: meget hvor meget betyder det sociale? rasmus: det betyder meget. så meget er det jo heller ikke for jeg mødte jo jer, mine venner er jo røvkedelige. mari: jeg ville jo ikke, ligesom ham ludwig vi mødte som var helt alene, det tror jeg ikke jeg ville. jeg tror det er meget godt for mig på roskilde at have den der trygge base i din camp som du altid kan komme tilbage til og vide at der nok skal være nogen der eller nogen man kan ringe til – ligesom den hjemfølelsen. man kan sagtens være ude og lave nogle ting. I år var der virkelig mange vi kendte der var på festivalen udover vores camp, og det er virkelig hyggeligt, men det er egentlig ikke det vigtigste for mig. det er lidt ligeglad om andre, men det er vigtigt for mig at have en camp, en homebase. hvor man kan komme og koble lidt af og bare sidde og være med nogle mennesker man kender. det må blive meget slidtsomt hele tiden at skulle løbe rundt og møde nye mennesker bare for at have nogen at være sammen med. jeg tror nok man kan føle sig lidt ensom. det sociale er helt sikkert vigtigt for at have noget at holde fast i på en eller anden måde. hvor lang tid ville i sige i bruger på at sætte dette op, på planlægning og gøre sig klar? rasmus: meget tid. med anlæg der skulle købes og arrangeres, med hvem der skulle bruge penge på hvad og købe pavilioner og overføre penge til folk. mange praktiske ting for at holde styr på det, og hvem der skulle ligge i kø og hvilket område man skulle have. det er så vigtigt hvor man ligger henne? rasmus: ja, det er der også for os. vi skulle lige i L, som vi aldrig skal gøre igen, men L var sindssygt populært så der ved East, vi var tre, kom ind fredag morgen og var der. to dage i kø, hvad vil man ikke gøre for det. bare for at have et sted at ligge, og jeg var aldrig i den camp der. hvis der er mange sammen fælles i campen i køen, så er det fedt, men hvis det kun er to stykker og man skal spærre et sted af til tretten, så er det bare en puls på 180 fordi man er så stresset over at skulle spærre et område af der er så stort. mari: jeg var ikke så involeret i hele planlægningen, men vi har prøvet det før og er en del af en rimeligt routineret gruppe, så går det alligevel hurtigt. jeg synes ellers det første år vi skulle afsted, så var der meget mere planlægning og meget mere frem og tilbage og hvem skulle være i campen og sådan noget.

52 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen rasmus: l er det værste område. der hvor jeg kom ned med mine ting i jeres telt om lørdagen, så står jeg bare og snakker, folk er allerede begyndt at gå på rov. så er der nogen der er begyndt at rode i vores telt, og vi står bare der “hallo, vi er her? kan i ikke vente med at rode i vores telt til vi er gået?” mari: men samtidig på roskilde så er man lidt “ja ja selvfølgelig skal man på rov”. man bytter ligesom lidt. man skal ligesom lære de uskrevne roskilde regler, så som “en stol der er forladt, det er alles stol.” hvad så med musikken? bruger i tid på at se hvad der er før eller er det mest når man får programmet i hånden? mari: jeg vil side, måske andre år har jeg været mere forberedt end jeg har været i år, brugt tid på at gå igennem programmet og se hvem skulle spille. det er jo en vigtig del af det, men ikke det vigtigste synes jeg. og så synes jeg altid på en eller anden måde, som i år hvor der måske var et program som man ikke kendte så godt, så havde man en eller anden tiltro til roskilde at selvom jeg ikke kender det er det sikkert nogle rigtig gode navne. man stoler på de som booker og stoler på det stykke arbejde det gør, at der nok skal være nogle fede koncerter, og så hellere have den indstilling at tage ud og høre lidt. men helt klart, for mig bliver det først virkeligt når man har programmet i hånden. rasmus: der er mange af dem vi tog til som jeg ikke kendte, men var enormt glad for at høre en spontant koncert – det er jo det bedste i livet! og jeg havde overhovedet ikke skrevet dem ned, jeg kendte dem overhovedet ikke, og så er det en af de bedste koncerter man har været til. mari: ja det har været mine bedste koncertoplevelser, bortset fra nogen, så er det bands man ikke kendte så godt, hvor man blev hevet med til. eller at få lov til at hive nogen med, som for eksempel sidste år til kakkmaddafakka som var virkelig sjovt og en koncert jeg gerne ville se, men at få lov til at tage nogen andre mennesker med og de også er sådan “wow, fuck det er fedt det her” og man er sådan “ja jeg sagde det jo! det er mega nice!” og få lov til at dele musikken og “du skal se det her. du skal se den her koncert” det er næsten en af de fedeste ting ved roskilde, enten at få lov til at komme med til en koncert du ikke kender eller få lov til at tage nogen med og vise dem det – og at de også synes det er fedt. de der hypede konerter man har gået og glædet sig til i lang tid, det er jo mega fedt men det har man set frem til så meget. det er mere når man får den der “wow ok shit det havde jeg ikke lige forventet” – det er det som er det allerfedeste når man er på festival. rasmus: jeg er også enormt glad for at jeg ikke hørte ice cube, men så i stedet kom til at høre cashmere cat. det var så godt og det havde jeg heller ikke regnet med, er bare så glad for at jeg ikke hørte isterningen. mari: eller det der boyband! altså hva fuck laver de her! rasmus: ja og så bagefter stod vi bare der “fuck hvor er i gode mand! hvor var det godt!” og de var sådan helt “ej synes i?” og vi var sådan ja mand så godt mand. det var så underligt mari: man havnede bare midt i det sådan shit okay rasmus: ja og de gik sådan helt ned i fjæset på en mari: ja men det er jo det som er det allerfedeste ved roskilde, når man bare kommer gående og er sådan “hva sker der her?” ligesom da vi var til morgenfest og vi bare kommer ind og er sådan åh okay så bliver jeg med og folk er sådan ja kom! eller den gang vi var til morgenfest og vi var bare jaaa kom! det er lige præcis alle de tingene som gør det så fedt. hvor vigtigt er musikken for jer på roskilde? i forhold til andre festivaler. mari: egentlig ikke er musikken så vigtig rasmus: nej. mest sammenholdet mari: bare det at man skal på roskilde. i år tog jeg på northside fordi der var nogle bands jeg gerne ville se, men jeg aldrig tage på northside hvis der ikke var nogle bands jeg gerne ville se. men roskilde skulle jeg sagtens tage på selvom det ikke er “wow det er lige min lineup” men hvorfor tager du så med? campen? mari: ja det er hele stemningen og man vil fandme ikke sidde i københavn mens alle er på roskilde og føle sig helt udenfor og forladt. det er bare alt det rundt at man gerne vil være der. det er svært at forklare egentlig fordi når man er der så går man bare rundt og drikker en masse øl og chiller, men det er bare sådan.. jeg ved det ikke. man har bare en sindsyg god følelse i kroppen når man er der at man ER der. jeg er en del af det her. rasmus: “jeg er ankommet”. det er alle de snakker om når man ligger i køen, når man knapper stolen op og sin første øl op og er sådan “åh. alle mine ting er her, nu er jeg her. jeg skal være her i en uge!” der findes ikke noget udenfor. mari: man vil jo ikke være den ligegyldige person så man vil helst være der. man er fuldstændig ligeglad med alle menneskene som ikke er på roskilde. det er bare hele pakken, der er bare noget anderledes. man kan jo ikke selv sætte ord på, men jeg havde ikke den sammen følelse da jeg var på northside at jeg var på festival. jeg tror ikke der er nogen andre festivaler i verden, når man er på roskilde så er man bare på festival.. sådan virkelig. camping? mari: jo jo helt sikkert, det er jo med til at skabe den der, “vi er alle sammen sammen, toiletterne stinker for os alle sammen og badene er lige så kolde, maden smager lige så klamt, alle har tømmermænd, og ok så skal vi nok have det sjovt i aften” loyalt publikum? mari: det fede med roskilde er det er et loyalt publikum overfor kunstnerne også. jeg har aldrig været på nogen anden festival eller andre koncerter hvor opbakningen rundt de kunstnere på scenen er så god og responsen. det kan man også mærke på kunstneren der spiller, og det synes jeg er fedt ved roskilde for eksempel the xx eller solange som er sådan shit tusind tak og er helt overvældet over responsen og man er sådan yes det er man en del af og man er med at skabe denne oplevelse sammen fordi alle giver så meget af sig selv. svært at sætte ord på stemningen? mari: ja vi skal til nogle fede koncerter og have det fedt sammen

53 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen rasmus: alle deler mari: men også campen rundt om at have et godt forhold til de, man passer på hinanden på en lidt anden måde. men det er mega svært at sætte ord på hvorfor det er som det er. men jeg tror bare det er fordi at alle har ligesom, hvordan skal man sige.. fragile. skrøbeligt. for det kræver jo at alle kommer med den samme indstilling og holdning til det. men jeg føler at man opdrager ligesom hinanden, og dem som har været på festival lærer de der ikke har så magen gange hvordan de skal opføre sig. de ældre opdrager hvordan man er til koncert? mari: ja præcis, det er okay her til men så ikke længere. fordi det kan jo blive så vildt så muligt, men alle. der finde jo nogle uskrevne regler som alle lægger på sig selv og opretholder og så går man så langt men ikke længere for det ved man på en mærkelig måde, der har man ligesom bare forstået på den sociale dynamik at det er ikke okay. rasmus: ja som for eksempel når der er en der falder så kommer der bare ti mennesker og så flyver man bare op. man lader ham ikke bare ligge, man stopper hinanden “få ham op” mari: jeg tror også derfor det kan være så vildt og så frit på en måde er fordi, jeg ved ikke hvordan roskilde klarer det men måske fordi det er en gammel festival med traditioner der bliver ført videre til nye generationer. for det er festivalgængerne selv der giver traditionen videre til hinanden. roskilde bygger op om det ved sikkerhed og det bliver ganske vildt før de bryder ind. men det er så sygt mærkeligt, det er så skørt hvordan det kan blive på den måde men jeg tror bare på roskilde at alle har forstået eller lært af nogen de der uskrevne regler om hvordan man opfører sig, for hvis man går over grænsen får man fandme hurtigt også at vide af nogen “hey – det er for langt, det er ikke ok”. et godt eksempel er da vi var på kendrick lamar og pigen satte sig for at pisse lige der, og folk var bare sådan nej det er ikke okay og folk trak sig bare der og var sådan “hva fuck har du gang i”. det var en helt shame circle. men egentlig, hvorfor er det ikke okay at tisse der men det er okay at tisse ved hegnet lissom? men det er de der uskrevne regler og du får sindssyg hurtig respons fra gruppen hvis du ikke opfører dig i forhold til de reglene. eller hvis du står og mosher på et sted hvor du ikke må moshe så går folk bare væk fra dig og så forsvinder fællesskabet om dig. sikker festival? civile politimænd? mari: lige præcis. eller hvis folk er alt for stive, man kan være rimeligt fucking stiv men hvis man lige er et halvt skridt for langt så kommer folk med en gang og er sådan hey er du okay skal du have noget vand noget mad hvor er campen din skal jeg følge dig tilbage. altså sådan det synes jeg man ser tit at det sker med det samme at folk er sådan ej det var lige lidt for meget. voldtægt på festivalen? ødelægger sikkerhedsbilledet. mari: ja fordi man ikke har oplevet det selv. og man føler næsten, det er virkelig slemt at sige det men at det er endnu værre at voldtage nogen på roskilde festival end det ville have været i københavn fordi så er det sådan du har ikke forstået hvad vi laver, du har ikke forstået hvorfor er her. du bryder det hele. du er en outsider. det er så grusomt. det er mere brutal på en eller anden måde. rasmus: jeg læste også at på en svensk festival at der var en pige som blev voldtaget midt under en koncert mari: men de holder det heller ikke næste år, den festial fordi de ikke har styr på det. mari: det bliver ligesom ekstra grusomt på en eller anden måde. jeg har aldrig set vold på roskilde. jeg har aldrig oplevet noget voldsomt eller truende selvom jeg er blevet tæsket rundt i en moshpit til vince staples. man har altid følt sig sikker? rasmus: ja men der er jo ligesom ikke sådan en lov på roskilde, i forhold til københavn det er lidt mere sådan... mari: der findes en grænse og med en gang du går over grænsen så siger gruppen til. 32.04

Transcription: Rune hvad hedder du: rune hvad var din rolle på rf: jeg var artist først, så blev jeg gæst hvordan synes du tid er anderledes på festival: det synes jeg ikke. du synes ikke tid går hurtigere eller langsommere?: måske. man er jo længere vågen end normalt. det kan godt være tiden går langsommere, muligvis. synes du at du opfører dig på en anden måde når du er på roskilde end i dit daglige liv? hvordan?: ja. jeg tror at man taler måske lidt højere generelt. jeg føler mig måske mere fri, men det betyder ikke at jeg er det. det er lidt det samme som at være i new york for mig. hvorfor synes du du føler dig mere fri?: højst sandsynligt fordi jeg ikke har nogen aftaler.

54 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen du skal ikke nå noget?: nej, ihvertfald ikke noget som ikke er sjovt. så er det måske bare et sted hvor man kan lave nogle nye regler for sig selv, både personligt og socialt. og det kan måske give en dejlig lille falsk følelse af frihed. så du synes du er mere fri men samtidig ved du at du ikke er fri: j a, jeg skal jo hjem igen. jeg føler mig lidt en i boble?: det kan jeg også godt forstå at folk har det på den måde, og jeg kan også godt selv drages af det, men jeg bærer stadig rundt på en lille bylt af fornuft om at jeg skal noget ugen efter eller to uger eller tre uger efter så jeg kommer aldrig helt væk. men lægger du mærke til folk omkring dig kommer væk?: j a. det gør de klart. nu boede jeg i en rimeligt vild lejr som bestemt prøvede at flygte på den måde. hvordan?: for eksempel med alkohol og ingen søvn og stoffer. men tror du det er fordi du skulle arbejde at du ikke lavede den samme flugt som dine venner?: jeg lavede den samme flugt, men samtidig var en stor del af mit formål dernede da jeg fandt ud af jeg gerne ville blive var at feste fuldstændig amok og samtidig netværke helt vildt. det havde dem jeg boede sammen med ikke samme behov for. hvorfor synes du så det er bedre at netværke dernede end det er at netværke til en fest her?: det har jeg heller ikke sagt det er. men der er flere dernede som man kan snakke med, de er alle samlet. udover det er de mere åbne fordi at der er en artist samhørighed der både er ret fed og også ret plat, men som gør at folk har nememre ved at snakke dernede. artist samhørighed? hvad mener du med det? dem der har spillet dernede? ja, eller også dem der bare spiller generelt, og så fordi der er så mange folk samlet på et sted, så er det som om at artisterne også holder lidt sammen, derfor er det også et nemmere sted for mig at netværke. hvor er det så? det er klart der er størst samling backstage. men jeg var ikke en gang i mediebyen for eksempel. så ikke der. eller det var bare fordi jeg ikke kom der. så det var egentlig i opvarmningsdagene du networkede? nej, bagefter var det på offentlig plads. det er nogengange svært. jeg bliver altid venner med mine kollegaer, jeg kan ikke lade være. men det er også meget rart. der var ikke så ange af mine tætte venner på roskilde, så det var oplagt at hænge ud med dem jeg har god kemi med, men vi har ikke talt så meget før men har alligevel mødt hinanden en del gange. hvad med dem du boede sammen med? har du boet med dem før?: på roskilde, nej. dem jeg har snakket med før dig har været meget centreret omkring de samme mennesker på camp: det er et par år siden jeg har været på roskilde, det var ikke nogen af mine tætte venner jeg skulle bo sammen med. jeg havde ikke engang et telt, så jeg havde faktisk overvejet at tage hjem igen og arbejde og skrive musik. men så kom jeg derned og så var der alligevel nogle meget søde folk og min lejr var total åben og elskede mig rimeligt hårdt allerede fra anden dagen, og så fik jeg lidt lyst til at blive og det blev rigtigt sjovt. og så mødte jeg en masse søde mennesker og så blev det lige pludseligt lidt svært at tage hjem?: jep mandag ville jeg hjem tirsdag, tirsdag ville jeg hjem onsdag, onsdag ville jeg hjem torsdag. kom du overhovedet hjem?: jeg tog hjem fredag for at sove lidt og så tilbage lørdag med fuld energi. hvordan synes du så din oplevelse har ændret sig? før du holdt pause for tit tog du derned?: første gang jeg spillede der var i 2008, og så på en eller anden måde når man først har spillet der kan det være rigtig svært at bruge penge på noget man lidt kan føle har en forbindelse til arbejde. så jeg har kun været der når jeg har fået billet eller spillet. så gad du ikke bruge penge på det mere? hvorfor? nej, måske ikke. fordi det bliver meget forbundet med arbejde oppe i mit hovede. synes du det var arbejdsagtigt at være der?: det er de ting der flyder sammen for mig. men nej, specielt ikke når vi kom til torsdag, der begyndte jeg at slappe mere af. måske også onsdag men jeg ved godt at det er fjollet men jeg siger bare det er sådan det er. en billet til 2000 er jo fuldstændigt sindssygt. det er bare fordi det er så dyrt. så kunne jeg måske også godt finde på at bruge pengene på at tage ud og rejse. vil du så hellere ud og rejse end at tage på festival?: ja det kunne jeg godt forestille mig. fordi jeg kommer altid på festival fordi jeg skal spille tit, så det er et behov der bliver dækket som r

55 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

TRANSCRIPTION: BOOKERS

Transskribering Interview med Peter

A: Okay. Helt generelt, kan du lige kort beskrive hvad din rolle er i denne her gruppe og hvor længe du har været der og hvornår du startede? B: Jeg har været en del af denne her gruppe siden midt i 90'erne, jeg kan sgu, 96 / 95 / 96, øhm, jeg fik dengang til opgave at lave en scene og programlægge en scene, øhh, for glad musik der appelerede til dans, men ikke den slags glade musik der appelerede til samme slags dans og til samme musik som vi havde på de andre scener. Og det blev, øhm, hurtigt opfattet som værende en world musik scene. Øhh og siden hen, øhh har, kan man sige har opgaven vokset den ud af ball room scenen og blev til også at placere artister på andre scener fra det spektre, som, der fagnes under hatten world musik. Øhm, og derudover så, øhm, har jeg gennem årene og gør stadigvæk arbejder jeg med det vi kalder det skæve, øhh, alt det der er skævt i vores optik. Altså særproduktioner, genre som ikke er vores hovedgenre, altså når vi nu for eksempel også i år har Tivoli eller Copenhagen Phil, der laver et mix-tape, øhm, med et repetoire klippet sammen med fra kompositions-musik og nuenseble kommer og laver en udlægning af deres opfattelse af sabe, så er det sådan nogle ting jeg laver, men også mere traditionel musik som jeg også har, fordi man kan sige verdensmusik er jo et begreb som ikke dækker en genre, men som er et begreb, en kasse, som er titlen på en kasse hvori der findes milliarder af genre. A: Okay, og såååeehh, B: Og det er min opgave at sørge for at der kommer nok af det. Det er en kamp. Men det mener vi alle sammen at det er for de ting som vi arbejder med og det er jo kun godt fordi det er fordi vi har ambitioner for det vi går og laver ikke. A: Jo, øhm, og så lad os køre igennem dit arbejde, jeres arbejde, i bookinggruppen i de her faser. Først research-fasen. B: Ja, den er, den kører, man kan sige research fasen er konstant og ongoing og kører hele tiden. Øhm, og det er jo fordi at mange af de ting, man kan sige den del af det musikalske spektre som jeg arbejder med er jo ikke, er jo ikke skal vi sige hit-orienteret som det Thomas og Stefan og Anders arbejder med. Jeg behøver ikke at skulle finde årets "The Weekend". Jeg skal finde de ting som kan lade sig gøre. Der kan jo, der er mange af de artister som jeg præsenterer og som får hevet hertil, som jeg har set for år tilbage eller 1 eller 2 år siden, men det er først nu at øhm, at øhm, det er muligt at bringe dem til Roskilde Festival. A: Mhmmm. Men, så det er en ongoing process, men du har stadig, der er stadig en periode, hvor i er mere ude og se koncerter og hvor i... B: Njaeeh, nej det synes jeg ikke. Det, det kører hele tiden. Jo der er lige en periode 14 dage i Juli, hvor man er fuldstændig brændt ud og kun hører klassisk musik og sådan noget, hvis man ikke kun hører stilhed. Men ellers såeh nej det kører hele tiden. Man kan sige nu har det ændret sig rigtig rigtig meget for mig den tid jeg har arbjedet med det her, fordi i starten da jeg lavede, da jeg var på Roskilde Festival, der øhm, foregik der stort set ikke nogen ting i Danmark, som var relevant og på det tidspunkt var der heller ikke, havde vesten ikke fået udbygget denne her rutine med at tage ud i den store verden, øhm, altså det er så længe siden så det var der simpelthen ikke penge til og øh i starten var jeg også kun deltidsansat. Kun siden 2000 jeg har været fuldtidsansat. Så jeg kunne ikke få fri fra mit arbejde til at tage til, nu har jeg lige været i Kina de sidste de to uger og Tanzania for en måned siden og sådan noget. Det kunne jeg jo ikke gøre før og det kan jeg nu ikke. Og også fordi der er faktisk sket det at Roskilde Festival er blevet, øh Roskilde Festival er blevet en meget meget meget meget vigtig, en meget meget vigtig festival for den, al den musik for alle de her artister som findes under det her begreb af verdensmusik, fordi vi har et godt publikum vi har de rigtige scener, vi har den fantastiske produktion og vi tør tage, altså vi er jo godt klar over at det ikke er Elza Soares der sælger billetterne men the Weekend, øhh, men i og med at vi gør det. øhm såehh, er vi et vindue. Altså at have Roskilde Festival på sit CV er meget meget meget vigtigt for, for ehhm, en kunstner, øh, altså så vigtig så da jeg var i jeg var i Columbia i September og der var der. Der var det ligefrem sådan kulturministeriet snakkede om at Roskilde var et af de vigtigste steder for Columbianske artister at spille, fordi der er så mange der er breaket på Roskilde altså. Fordi det, vi har resurserne og viljen og vil det her ikke, og det kan der være mange grunde til men man kan sige en af de vigtigste grunde til at vi gør det er at vi er jo i høj grad en velgørenhedsorganisation, ehh, og hvis man har tænkt sig at redde tyrkerne fra dem selv og deres egne ulykker, så bliver man sgu også nødt til at præsenterer deres egen musik, billedligt talt ikke. Et andet, på et andet felt hvor det har ændret sig det er jo også at på de sidste 10 år, ved siden af at lave Roskilde Festival, har jeg jo også lavet programmet på spillestedet Global og det betyder jo at jeg laver 80, og nu er vi oppe på 120 koncerter om året derinde. Øhm, det fandtes slet ikke da jeg startede på det her, men der har vi jo hele tiden artister og igen med Global, det er jo også blevet et sted hvor som ehm, del var det et sted hvor man tidligere folk gerne ville spille, fordi der var en chance for at der kom en fra Roskilde og hørte en, men idag er det blevet også et sted som artisterne de vil have spillestedet på deres CV, fordi wow de har spillet der, så er det klasse ikke. Så på den måde så har det ændret sig og det kører hele tiden. A: Øhm, når nu du siger du tager til Kina og sådan, så du er meget ude og se koncerter i virkeligheden. Hvor meget er det eller, hvor mange andre kilder bruger du, magasiner, blogs, anmeldelser, netværk? B: Altså jeg vil sige i vores gruppe, der rejser vi alle sammen. Øhhh, der er rigtig mange der tror det er mig der rejser mest, men det er fordi jeg ofte rejser til sådan nogle eksotiske rejsemål, øhh, men øh, det kommer også, altså både oversøisk men også i Europa er jeg jo omkring ikke, men jeg tror at vi alle sammen ligger oppe på de der 6-8 og så er der nogen der har flere rejser, men, men øh, det virker jo ikke så tungt når man tager en weekend til London eller til Brighton som Thomas og Anders jo skal nu her. Det, når man skal til Kina så gør man det ikke lige henover weekenden, så tager man altså kun begivenheder som strækker sig over en uge. Men vi tager ud og ser rigtig rigtig rigtig meget musik alle sammen. Alle sammen!

56 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: Mhm. Og det gør i, det bruger i mere tid på end at lave research fra et kontor? Eller er det...? B: Ej, det er, det er en god kombination, men man kan jo så meget med teknologien så det der at få det helt rigtige indtryk af en artist om fungerer det live. Det får man kun ved at se det. Hvis man ikke kan være der, så er det vigtigt, så er det vigtigt at man har nogen i sit netværk som man kan stole fuldstændig på, som siger det her band det holder også live. Øhm, så det er altså rigtig rigtig rigtig vigtigt og det, jeg kan ikke huske procentsatsen men jeg tror det var omkring 75 % af alle de artister der spiller har vi eller en fra vores aller aller nærmeste netværk set live. A: Okay, når du siger det her med aller nærmeste netværk eller at man selv skal have set det. Hvad er det for noget man har som man kan vurderer med? Er det mange års erfaring, der siger hvad det vil sige at være et godt band? Er det sådan en speciel feeling man ser til koncerten, eller hvad er det, hvad tror du det er, som gør at man siger ja eller nej? B: Altså jeg vil sige i første ende så kræver det en god forståelse for hvad Roskilde Festival er for noget. Øhh og dernæst så er det, skal man have god smag, og så hjælper det i høj grad med rutinen. For det er jo klart, og det er jo også nogle af de der udfordringer jeg har været med, altså første gang jeg så et eller andet Kinesisk band så blev jeg måske væltet omkuld fordi woow, det var nok fremmedartet og eksotisk så det skal vi prøve, men når jeg har set 20 kinesiske band så ved jeg, okay der er også forskel der, så det er også noget med rutinen at gøre ikke. Øhm men altså jeg vil sige det kræver i høj grad en forståelse for hvad Roskilde Festival er og hvad man kan på Roskilde Festival og hvad der forventes af en på Roskilde Festival. Øhh og så også, altså, og det kan jeg ikke definere mig nærmere men god smag. A: God smag, så bruger du din egen smag til at vurdere hvad du mener at kunderne ville kunne lide, eller gæsterne ville kunne lide B: Nej, nej det gør jeg bestemt ikke og det gør jeg heller ikke på Global, jeg laver ikke kun noget som jeg selv kan lide. Men jeg laver noget som jeg kan sige, som inden for det felt som det er falder inden for den gode smag, men der er jo også ting altså, der er jo ting som vi jo ikke, som ikke altså, nu har der lige været European Song Contest, som man kan sige, det der ikke for at diskuterer det er der sikkert også nogen som synes er god smag, deeet det passer bare ikke smagsmæssigt eller genremæssigt fordi når vi snakker smag, så er det noget også noget med hvad for nogle genrefelter vi dækker ikke. Øhm og man kan sige, øh, altså nu har vi, har vi noget kompositions-musik på i år og det forsøger vi at lave på en anden måde. Vi synes at det, det øh, man kan sige kompositionsmusikken er også vigtig, vi vil da godt tage nogle mere radikale skridt og lave noget, nogen, altså det har vi gjort før, lavet Terry Riley og sådan nogle ting altså hvor det virkelig var, var minimalistisk, minimalistisk fokus vi havde, men vi skal jo også sådan lidt rundt og præsenterer historien og baggrunde og sådan. Øhm, ej, altså, det det har noget at gøre med hvad er det nu for noget at Roskilde Festival er for en størrelse, hvad fungerer der ikke. Der er mange ting som, som man kan sige, vi har f.eks. også kun, vi har kun scener for stående publikum. Altså, det kan godt være lidt af en opgave at skulle komme igennem Terry Riley's in C på Avalon scenen på et fuldstændig umuligt underlag med sten og jeg ved ikke hvad, øh, og det er sådan nogle ting, ahhh, går det, går det ikke. Eller støjen fra andre scener, går det, kan vi leve det. Altså der er da eksempler, Juana Molina fra Argentina havde vi for nogle år siden, hun gik af, simpelthen, fordi hun kunne simpelthen ikke leve med, med den støj der kom fra de andre scener og sådan der kan man sige, det er jo så en fejlvurdering vi har gjort i den situation ikke. Så der er så mange ting som man skal have fokus på i den sammenhæng. A: Øhm, når du skal. Så laver i... B: Men jeg vil stadigvæk gerne holde fast i god smag. Altså rigtig rigtig vigtig ikke. A: Ja, baserer det på Roskilde, hvad i ved Roskilde er og hvad for nogle genre i skal prøve at repræsenterer. Ja... B: Det er meget meget meget diffust. Øh, man kan simpelthen ikke stille det her op i et skema. A: Nej okay, fedt. B: Derfor så tjekker vi jo også rigtig. Nu har jeg jo været med, nu er jeg jo den der har været med længst i musikgruppen og jeg har jo været der, hvor der har været udskiftninger og sådan og det er altid øhm, det er altid en udfordring når vi skal finde nye øhm kollegaer til gruppen, at sikre at det en ligesom også har, skal man sige indsigten i nogle felter som vi andre ikke har haft, det gælder bestemt ikke om at få en gruppe, som har samme smag og samme holdning og som kan lide det samme og har samme fokus-felt. Det kan man ikke bruge til en skid. Vi skal tværtimod have en gruppe som er sammensat af folk, så vi dækker hele spektret og at vi også er uenige og vi kan prøve tingene af og vi kan argumenter overfor hinanden, er det det her vi skal gøre ikke. A: Så det er en af nøglerne til at 6-7 personer kan repræsenterer 100.000 gæster, på en måde, mener du? B: Ja fordi, ja. Men altså man kan sige vi repræsenterer jo ikke 100.000 gæster det gør vi sgu ikke. Man kan sige, det er jeg jo godt klar over at, og det er der jo, både i pressen, blandt ældre hippie jounalister og så er der jo også unge entutiastiske publikummer og det er jo kun super super fedt, at vi har en festival, hvor folk de føler medejerskab eller ejerskab til den, men altså sådan er det jo reelt ikke. Man kan sige, at musikgruppen har jo en bundne opgave, som går ud på at lave, og det har vi lavet et langt skriv om hvad det er for nogle ambitioner vi har med vores musikprogram og det er godkendt og det, det er bestyrelsen i første omgang, festivalledelsen og dermed betyrelsen holder også fast på at vi levere og at vi er aktuelle, vi viser det der er morgendagens stjerne, at vi fortæller historien, at vi komme palletten rundt hvad kloden angår, gennem årene og sådan nogle ting ikke. Men vi repræsenterer ikke, men vi præsenterer for 100.000 øhh og det gør vi jo også fordi vi jo også ved at der er rigtig rigtig rigtig mange mennesker der kommer på Roskilde Festival fordi de kender the Weekend, men de tog derfra og kan huske, om 5 år kan de huske Elza Soares ikke, men ikke the weekend. Vi præsenterede dem for noget de ikke vidste de kunne lide.

A: Så det øhh næste step efter det her research det er musikgruppemøderne, hvor i diskuterer og hvor i vælger. Øhm. Så er der de her indstillingslister og så skal i forsvare overfor hinanden hvem der skal på. Hvordan foregår den process of hvad for nogle argumenter bruger man til at forsvare sinde egne bands?

57 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

B: Altså man kan sige det er jo en process som har udviklet sig også gennem årene, og det er stadigvæk lidt af en udfordring fordi vi arbejde i et felt, øhh, som er rigtig rigtig rigtig bredt, fra det mest øhh, fra de aller største artister til de mindst, og mindste og ukendte og så videre, øhh, den del af branchen som jeg arbejder i er betydelig langsommere. Altså for 10 år siden der havde vi ikke booket det første band ved juletid endnu. Nu har vi allerede bekræftelse på de første artister til næste år. Det siger noget om hvordan det har udviklet sig. Men det er jo, det er jo temposætterne, det er jo, det er den økonomisk tunge del af branchen. Og hvis de store artister de begynder øh og planlægge i god tid så presser det også til de mindre artister, til mellem-artisterne og til de helt små til de også gør det, men det kan være svært at nå helt ud til en eller anden afkrog i Afrika og få dem gjort opmærksom på, eller hey, skal i spille Roskilde i år, eller i 2018, så skal i altså have materiale klar her lige i august måned fordi det er her vi begynder at booke. Øhh så langt tænker de ikke og mange af de oversøiske artister, altså, det har været tilfældet med mange Brasilianske artister, Colombianske artister, de har haft støtte fordi der er store udgifter forbundet med at sende 10 man fra Brasilien til Europa, transportafgifter og sådan, så der har være kulturstøtte og sådan nogen og det er der mange når det kommer tredjeverdenslande, også fjerde verden og anden verden men altså til den fattigere del af verden, der har man ikke de samme tempi, der får en artist måske af vide en måned inden at de har en tur til Europa. Jamen i får støtte ikke. Så det gør jo også at der er nogle udfordringer i musikgruppen og når vi skal vælge altså. Øhm, jeg kan mærke meget meget meget stor forskel på Global hvor det er mig selv der beslutter og så lave det i gruppen hvor, fordi på Global, der kan jeg trække ting og selv holde det hen men hvis på i musikgruppen, der er jeg nødt til at være klar allerede når også de andre er klar, fordi der gælder det også om at få den slot kl 21 Torsdag på Avalon, det er der vi skal Elza Soares, og den er jeg nødt til at få sat mig på. Vi har så i god tid, men vi har dog lavet nogle aftaler om at for det felt som jeg repræsenterer, der er det ikke muligt, så derfor der laver vi på f.eks. Avalon som er en vigtig scene for os, der laver vi en XXX-booking, som jeg så kan putte artisten ind, men jeg skal stadivæk ha godkendt artisten i gruppen og hvordan argumenterer jeg for det, ja det gør jeg jo i første omgang ved at sætte min egne ord på, grunden til at jeg synes det skal være, og så også sende materiale, det kan være lyd-links og i bedste fald øh live-links, altså noget video, sådan de kan se yes det er lige præcis det her det går. Gerne anmeldelser, man bygger lige sådan en kort præsentation op altså, og det er jo klart at øhm, at øhm jeg har formodentlig lettere ved at få nogle ting igennem fordi man kan sige det felt som jeg arbejder med har de andre ikke så stor kendskab til, men dog kan jeg godt løbe ind i at, ej nu gider vi eddermame ikke at have mere musik fra Mali, kan vi ikke finde nogle andre, hvor man kan sige Stefan øh og de andre skal måske argumenterer, specielt Stefan som arbejder lidt med, skal vi sige i midterfeltet, øh, hvor alle måske har lidt indsigt, øh, skal kæmpe hårdere i sin argumentation for at det lige skal være den artist, fordi der har alle måske en mening. Ikke mig fordi jeg har simpelthen mistet overblikket i alt hvad der sker på det felt. Det sker jo ikke. B: Men, hvor meget fylder øhm, i denne her process både research og indstillingsliste og musikgruppemøde. Hvor meget er der skabeloner, hvor meget prøver i at gøre det som sidste år. Er det noget i har oppe i hovedet eller er der, er det sådan meget øhm.. Er der en forståelse mellem jer om hvad det er der skal ske og så gør i bare det, i forhold til hvordan det var sidste år, eller har i nogle ting skrevet ned, i skal fylde de her op og der er nogle budgetplaner og...? A: Alstå jeg vil sige, jeg, jeg synes ikke at vi har ligesom nogle faste skabeloner eller faste øhhm faste rammer der skal fyldes ud, altså det har vi jo, fordi vi har x antal scener som spiller i det og det tidsrum. Og vi ved at der er nogen ting, der skal være på det og det tidspunkt om aftenen eller i dagsforløbet altså, når vi nu har Copenhagen Phil som første ting på Arena, øhm, om fredagen så er det fordi vi ved at det er en musik som kræver lidt ro omkring sig og der nytter det ikke noget at man kan høre et eller andet tungt band oppe fra orange scene, men altså ellers såeh, så opfører, så synes jeg ikke vi opererer i skabeloner eller i sådan faste formler. Øhm vi forsøger at udvikle festivalen og det synes jeg da også at hvis man går tilbage i programmet at man kan se er der bestem en udvikling i programmet af Roskilde Festival, ellers ville vi jo heller ikke kunne fastholde det publikum eller ikke det publikum, men den publikums-type som vi gør, fordi det som jo faktisk er fantastisk øh og som er noget som mange festivaler kæmper med, det er at vi forstår faktisk og, vi formår faktisk at forny vore publikum. Gennemsnitet for en publikum har altid ligget mellem 23 og 24 og det gør den stadigvæk. Det er faktisk ret imponerende. De fleste fesivaler har det med at publikum bliver ældre sammen med selve festivalen ikke. B: Mhmm, ja det er jo bæredygtigt kan man sige. Det er vigtigt.

A: Mhmm det er det.

B: Så der er ikke øhm, altså hvad med budgetter. Ingen.

A: Jamen altså budgetter det. Det er jo noget som altså. Der er vi, der kan man sige, en festival er igen også en særlig størrelse her, fordi vi er jo en velgørenhedsorganisation og det vil sige, at alle de penge der bliver tjent på Roskilde Festival, de skal være bortgivet inden næste festival, for at vi kan opretholde momsfritagelsen på billetten. Og det er ikke, skal vi sige, det er ikke kold og kynisk spekulation, det er simpelthen, sådan er festivalen opstået. Den er opstået ved at to gymnasieelever ville samle penge sammen til Black Panda Party i USA og så lavede de en festival. Og det gav jo underskud og så overtog det der hedder, det der hed Roskilde Fonden, de overtog så deres gæld og betalte de der 15.000 kr de skyldte, øh, og førte festivalen vider. Dvs. det har altid været med det formål at tjene nogle penge til velgørenhed. Og det betyder at der momsfritagelse på billetten. Det er derfor at de også oppe Kirke Hyldinge Idrætsforening laver hal- baller og sådan noget, fordi det er en eller anden form for almennyttigt arbejde og det skal man så ikke betale moms af, og så kan man tjene lidt penge til foreningen. Øhm, og det betyder at vi jo ikke har nogen penge stående på bankbogen, vi kan bruge af. Hvis vi nu gerne vil lave et eller andet helt "det lykkedes faktisk det komplette The Beatles næste år, men det koster bare 200 millioner kroner" jamen så har vi ikke en bankbog vi kan gå hen og gøre det på. Vi har, alle Roskilde Festivaller bliver økonomisk baseret på et lån på en kassekredit. Øh, den 1. august ligger der et budget klar og der går direktionen så ned i den lokale bank, nu er det ikke længere Roskilde Bank, fordi den gik i stykker, men nu er det så den Danske Bank. Og så får man en kassekredit og så laver vi årets festival på det. Dvs. vi får så et, et, et bundet. Vi får et budget. Og det vokser selvfølgelig fra år til år. Det er vokset eksplosivt de sidste 5 år. Øhm, men det, det kan man sige, det er en, den ramme er der, eller den skabelon er der. Den kan vi ikke sprænge. Vi kan så, hvis vi lige pludselig får tilbudt en eller anden fuldstændig ekstravagant ting, så kan vi gå til bestyrelsen og side "hey, vi tror på at hvis vi køber denne her artist, at så er vi garanteret i

58 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen hvert fald 10.000 flere publikum" og så kan vi få en ekstra bevilling på X antal millioner kroner ikke. Men, men ellers så er det inden for den der ramme at vi opererer ikke.

B: Mhmm. Er det en ramme der fylder meget. Er den meget begrænsende, eller passer den egentlig meget godt i, er det resourcer nok til at i kan gøre det i vil?

A: Hmmm. Man kan sgu altid bruge flere penge. Også fordi at vi har da ambition om at vi gerne, øhh, give artisterne et ordenligt honorar ikke, øhm, og det er der jo, jo længere man kommer hen i forløbet, og jo færre penge der er tilbage og så er der måske nogen der synes, osv. at de kunne godt, det har der været en løbende diskussion om med danske argenturer, at vi betaler ikke danske artister ordenligt i forhold til hvad vi betaler internationale artister. Den har jo kørt i alle de år jeg været med, så man kan sige, man kan altid bruge flere penge, og man kan altid, jeg vil, det, det er ikke fordi jeg selv skal bruge flere penge, men hvis jeg havde flere penge så vil jeg elske at give flere penge til artister. Og det gælder ikke kun på Roskilde, men det gælder også inde på Global. Jeg ville da elske at jeg kunne betale dem rigtigt rigtig godt og sørge for at de blev indkvarteret på et rigtig fedt hotel og havde det rigtig hyggeligt og blev hentet i en limosine, men det tillader økonomien ikke. Så jeg vil sige vi tilpasser vi os jo når vi snakker Roskilde Festival, så tilpasser vi os jo den virkelighed vi er i. Men vi har heldigvis forståelse og har haft forståelse i bestyrelsen, eller i direktion og dermed i bestyrelsen, gennem årene at market har ændret sig. Der skal flere og flere penge til, for at vi kan få de store artister sat på.

B: Okay, så næste fase. I har besluttet for hvad der skal bookes på de her indstillingslister. Så selve bookingfasen. Det praktiske med rent faktisk at få dem. Er det noget der fylder meget og hvordan foregår det med det her world musik. Øhm. Det er jo tit nogle mindre bands som, hvis man kan få de praktiske ting i orden, så er der vel ikke så mange andre der konkurrerer, så der er Roskilde et rimelig stort navn at kunne sige...

A: Altså det er vi helt helt sikkert, men samtidig er vi også en festival som øhm, altså i den sammenhæng betaler vi mere end andre festivaller. Altså der er mange artister fra oversøiske lande som turnerer i Europa henover sommeren, som øhh, det er kun muligt fordi de har en festival eller to i Roskilde-størrelsen som betaler nogle honorarer som gør at, så kan de også nøjes med at spille mindre klub-jobs indimellem ikke. Øhm.

B: Skal der forhandles meget i denne her, i din del af bookingen, øhm, kender du mange agenter ude i den store verden?

A: Jeg kender rigtig rigtig rigtig rigtig mange. Altså nu har jeg være i branchen så længe og jeg har rejse rigtig meget og øhm jeg har deltaget og har været, altså, man kan sige, der er nogle vigtig, der er nogle vigtige begivenheder i min del af verden, ligesom der også er for, for nogle af de andre, altså South by Southwest er den vigtige sted for dem og komme og ILMC i London og, for mig er det vigtig at komme til den begivenhed som hedder WOMEX som betyder World Music Expo som er sådan en branchekomsammen, hvor der kommer 3000 mennesker som arbejder som journalister eller bookere eller managers eller øhm pladeselskaber øhm og formidler musik. Og der har Roskilde Festival vi har været vært for den begivenhed 3 år i København og det gav virkeligt et ordentligt boost, for, for kendskaben til os, fordi vi præsenterede ikke alene os selv rigtig godt, men vi hjalp også WOMEX til at præsenterer sig i en ramme som var helt uhørt god. Men de var alle sammen også her, øhm, så på den måde ja jeg har et kæmpe netværk og jeg har, jeg har ikke været på Antarktis endnu, men øh gad vide om der ikke kommer en festival der, og ellers har jeg sgu været på alle kontinenterne og repræsenteret Roskilde Festival igennem mange år, så derfor så har jeg jo et kæmpe kæmpe netværk og som jeg sagde før, så er Roskilde Festival en festival som rigtig rigtig mange artister meget meget meget gerne vil spille på. Øhm, fordi de vil gerne have det på CV'et og de ved at det er et fantastisk publikum, de ved det er nogle fantastiske produktions-rammer og lyden er fed og alt det der ikke. Så jeg vil sige, ej det er ikke så meget at forhandle for mit vedkomne, øhm, der er ikke så mange, der er ikke nogen Danske festivaler der står og napper artisterne lige foran os. Det er mere et spørgsmål om at få koordineret med andre og få givet et bud sådan så en artist har mulighed for at øhm, få bygget en tour op. Øhhm, fordi det går ikke kun med et job når man kommer fra Columbia til Europa, så derfor så gælder det også om at få lagt buddene på et tidspunkt, og give dem den størrelse de skal have, så det ikke er os der betaler det hele, men at der er noget at bygge videre på og de kan skabe en tour omkring det, ikke. Det vil jeg sige, det er min udfordring, og så har jeg en masse, så jar jeg en masse udfordringer med visaer, øh, efterhånden som Europa har lukket sig om sig selv, så er det svære og svære for artister at komme ind og desværre sker det jo også engang, men dog vil jeg side de mere end 20 år jeg har været med, kender jeg til 5 musikere som ikke har forladt Europa efter øhm en Roskilde Festival og to af dem var sidste år. Dvs. inden da der er det mere end 20 år, hvor der kun 3 musikere, som faktisk har valgt at blive Europa ikke.

B: Mhmm, så dit job er faktisk også meget koordinering.

A: Det er i høj grad koordinering ja.

B: Er det også dig står for visa eller har du eksterne til at sidde og lave det.

A: Nej det er ikke mig der sidder og laver det. Men altså der er jo sket, men man kan sige så er der jo også stor forskel på hvem, hvad det er for en type artister, der er nogle artister, nogle af dem vi booker, dem tager vi jo så på så tidligt et tidspunkt at de endnu ikke har et europæisk argentur, øhm, men har måske en manager hjemme i deres hjemland. Øh, nogen har sgu ikke engang en manager og der er, der

59 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen er det altså op ad bakke, der skal man virkelig ville det, men den der ambition har vi jo også præsenteret nogle artister på et tidligt tidspunkt, øhm, altså Tinariwen, ved jeg ikke om du kender. De solgte store VEGA ud i sidste uge, øhhh, ørken-rock, sådan nogen to i blåt tøj. Øh Amadou og Marian, det blinde par fra Mali, øhm, nå men. Øhm Tinariwen, som spiller support for Rolling Stones og sådan noget, det er et af de aller største worldmusik bands overhoved. Det første job de nogensinde spillede det var på Roskilde Festival. Og sådan er der rigtigt rigtig mange artister øhm, Bomba Estero, der spillede Orange Scene sidste år havde ligesom det første, vi fløj dem over fra Colombia i, det kan jeg sgu ikke huske hvornår det var, 12 eller 13, og tilbage igen og nu spiller de, hvad er det, de skal spille Heartland til sommer. Det siger jo noge om, at vi bygger jo også artister op ikke. Altås så, så, ja hvad var det nu vi snakkede om, altså jo det er jo i høj grad, det er jo koordinering, altså her der er det spørgsmål om koordinering.

A: Altså så det er en blanding af, er der også noget, hvad er det kreative, hvis du måske selv skulle sige. Der er noge lidt kreativt i researchprocessen. Det er ikke så håndgribeligt, det er meget håndgribeligt at gå ud og se en koncert, men der er lidt personlig vurdering, lidt erfaring der kommer ind, mavefornemmelse, noget networking og så er der noget meget praktisk.

B: Altså det, det kan man godt sige, nu har vi jo lavet nogle ting gennem årene som kun har fundet sted hos os og nogle få andre steder. Altså det er jo, man kan sige det der med kreativiteten men det der jo en kombination af den der dialog man har med sit netværk. Altså nu havde det Syriske ensemble der åbnede Orange sidste år. Altså det var ikke sket hvis ikke Roskilde Festival havde været med fordi vi var de eneste der kunne lægge nogle penge og havde viljen og var med til at udvikle ideen til at det kunne blive til noget sådan de kunne komme til at spille en 3-4 jobs gjorde de over 10 dage ikke. Året før havde vi Africa Express også igen er det et spørgsmål, det er jo ikke os som opfundet begrebet Africa Express, det er jo noget som er opstået omkring dem, men vi har været i dialog løbende hele tiden og igen det der med at vi kan komme ind, øh, og være med til at sammensætte et program, øh som, og give dem en spilleflade på, på 5-6 timer havde de på Arena og samtidig også lægge pengene, øhm. Og så samtidig også, hvad vi jo også gjorde, gik ud og så gav vi Africa Express en donation og sagde "Vi vil godt give jer den her million danske kroner til sammen med jer at finde projekter i Afrika som vi mener skal have støtte" og på den måde retter vi vores velgørenhed ind og hjælper, eller udvikler den afrikanske musikindustri, helt nede på, til guitarbyggeren til festivaludvikling og den slags ikke. Så altså, der er jo en del kreativitet i det hele, men det er der jo også i det som de andre, når Stefan sammensætter en, en metal-pakke til Gloria en sen nattetime, så er det jo også noget han finder på. I år har jeg et projekt, som jeg har sådan arbejdet lidt med oppe i hovedet i et stykke tid. Det er Marlem Mahid El Cashri feat. Damon Albon, nej ikke Damon Albon, Justin Adams. Det er et øhm. Det er trance-musik, religiøst musik fra Marocco, virkelig så folk de flejner ud og bliver stive som brædder. Virkelig virkelig trance, men det kan være meget hård kost når det er første, så derfor så har vi hevet Justin Adams, som til dagligt spiller guitar for Robert Plank, fordi han er født i Vestafrika, er diplomatsøn og har boet hele sit liv der, og er producer også, og kender til ??? (33.32) også og Vestafrika, og dem, de kommer og laver et show på Avalon onsdag aften, som det er første og eneste gang. Med mindre det bliver en stor success, så skal de måske ud og spille på den måde i fremtiden ikke. Men det er, dvs. det er noget som jeg har fundet på.

A: Ja, fordi det er spændende det her med, jeres produkt er at booke nogle kreative selv, folk der laver noget kreativt output, og så er spørgsmålet om jeres rolle egentlig bare er en koordinator rolle, atlså noget som egentlig bare er koordinering. Men det virker til at der...

B: Altså der foregår helt klart ting, men, men hvis man kigger nedover, så vil man jo også kunne nikke genkendende til, til mange artister, hvis du ser festivalplakater fra andre festivaler af forskellig art, og så er der nogle enkelte som kun findes på Roskilde Festival, men altså det hele er jo en del af en stor turnerende, hvad skal man sige, et eller andet stort turnerende festival-cirkus som kører i hele den vestlige verden om sommeren ikke. Men jeg vil sige, der er i høj grad kreativitet i det og der er i høj grad kreativt i at få tilrettelagt et program, som er frisk og spændstigt og dynamisk og, det, det er der der er brug for, hvad kan man sige, den kreativitet som vi som programlæggere og bookere skal bidrage med ikke.

A: Mhmm, det er interessant.

B: Ja det er det. Det rigtig rigtig rigtig sjovt.

A: Ja, men det kan så også mærke, at det er en passion for jer.

B: DET ER DET.

A: Øhm, så det ville ikke fungerer hvis man ikke var interesseret i det.

B: Nej. A: Det ville ikke bare være et eller andet job hvor man kunne sidde og lave opkaldene til agenterne. Øhm, men nu sagde du lige selv, det her med, at man kunne godt mærke det havde ændret sig og konkurrencen. Hvordan kan du mærke den, nu har du været i branchen længe, øhm, både i Danmark med flere festivaller og udenlands, hvor meget koordinerer i med andre festivaller. Er der konkurrence med Sziget og Glastonbury eller er det noget der hjælper jer at få bands over der kan spille dem også. Er det noget i mærker meget til, at i er i albue-kamp med andre?

60 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

B: Nej, det synes jeg ikke. Tværtimod synes jeg vi har en meget god koordinering. Altså nu, Sziget, det vil jeg sige, det er øl fisse og hornmusik og ikke en skid andet, så er der nogen artister der spiller. Men altså, bajerne er billige og man kan få nogle shots hældt i hovedet. Det er meget hårdt sagt, men det mener jeg. Og jeg har endda været, og er rigtig rigtig gode venner med den tidligere kunstneriske direktør, Fuishina, men jeg vil sige DET er ikke nogen konkurrent. Jeg er godt klar over at der er 15.000 franskmænd og 15.000 hollændere som tager derned, men de tager ikke derned fordi musikprogrammet tillokker dem. De tager derned fordi de ved de kan have en uge i sprut for ingen penge. Og turen derned i toget ikke, den er også skide sjov ikke. Glastonbury, ja, den er også en anderledes festival ikke, og hvis man ser på det festival som jeg arbejder med og som de også arbejder med, så kan man se at der er meget stor, der er faktisk en meget stor forskel. Glastonbury er ikke nær så langt fremme i skoen som vi er. Øhm, og så på en eller anden måde er der også, der er en underlig, altså den engelske kanal gør sgu at, der er en anden, der er et andet fokus i engelsk musik-livet end der er på kontinentet. I hvert fald når det drejer sig om, om det her felt world music ikke. Men jeg har tæt samarbejde med festivaller som ligger tæt på, altså og også festivaller som er en lidt anden karakter end vores, altså en festival i øhm, Amsterdam Roots festival, øh, som nu er lidt anderledes i år fordi der er nogengange, vores, nogen, vi finder altid sted den første lørdag. Festivallen rammer altid den første lørdag i Juli. Der er nogen som har den første hele weekend i Juli. Dvs. der er nogen år hvor vi så ligger en uge forskudt i forhold til de andre, men Amsterdam Roots festival, ????-festival i Bergen, og så Rudolphstat Tanz und Musikfestival, som er en gamme østtysk, rigtig international, rigtig som, som den bedste side af østeuropa, det kommunistiske europa, der var den der internationalisme ikke. Men de festivaler har jeg ofte meget meget tæt dialog med, fordi der kan være, det kan være interessant for artister at komme til en af dem eller til os, hvis der samtidig kunne være et eller to jobs på en af de andre festivaler i samme weekend ikke. Det giver i høj grad mening ikke. Så det, så vi har ofte, telefonsnakke tidligt og henover, det har ikke været så meget i år, fordi der ligger i en uge foran dem.

A: Okay, men Roskilde står unikt nok, til at, i bliver ikke så pressede eller, altså Stefan sagde at de navne i har på Arena de kan gå i konkurrence med de store navne de har over på Northside og Tinderbox. Øhm, løber man hen i at der ikke er nok festivalgængere. Folk har ikke råd til 4 festivaler om sommeren. Øhm, er der ikke en frygt for at, øh?

B: Jo, det vil jeg da tro. Måske ikke så meget musikgruppen. Men altså jeg har faktisk været en del af festivalledelsen i 6 år, så jeg ved hvad det er for nogle overvejelser og bekymringer der har været. Og det er da helt helt klart at vi er da bekymrede for om vores koncept det holder, men altså på den anden side, så kan man sige vi har jo også et unikt koncept. Øhm, det her med at vi har 50.000 mennesker boende på vores campingplads derude adskiller os jo fra Northside og Tinderbox og Heartland og jeg ved ikke hvad, så vi er jo anderledes. Og vi ved jo også godt at der er nogle år, der er det op ad bakke. Altså et år med massive regn. Jeg har været med så mange gange, så jeg har prøvet rigtig rigtig regnvejr, det, der er mange af mine unge kollegaer, de ved ikke hvad en festival i rigtig regnvejr vil sige. Men der er det svært at sælge billeterne eller sælge alle billeterne året efter, fordi, årrrhh mand, det der med at gå i mudder til midt på livet ikke, det er altså ikke skide sjovt. Altså, "gider vi nu igen i år ikke". Øhm, og jeg kan da også godt, nu kan man sige, Danmark er sluppet relativt nådigt udenom den økonomiske krise der startede i 08, så derfor så er der stadig mange mange mange festivaler og specielt hvis man ser på hvad der skete i sydeuropa, der lukkede festivalerne simpelthen på stribe. Men vi er jo også i den der unikke situation at vi er faktisk relativt selvstændige. Altså det er jo, er det 85 % af de penge vi generer kommer fra billet, kommer fra billet-salg og fra mad og drikke salg, som vi selv står for. Så har vi efterhånden fået bygget noget sponser-deals og sådan sammen, men rigtig rigtig mange andre festivaler, det gælder f.eks. også Tinderbox, de er jo støttet. De får jo offentlig støtte og når du går til sydeuropa, så er det jo ofte banker og forsikringsselsaber og der er man jo enorm sårbar, hvis der pludselig kommer en krise. Vupti, så er der bare ikke nogen festival mere. Der kan man sige, der er vi i en anden situation, hvor vi kan opgradere eller nedgradere begivenheden efter det omkring-liggende, fordi hvor mange billetter kan vi sælge, det er det der er afgørende for om festivalen den vedbliver med at eksisterer, men altså igen indenfor mit felt, der konkurrerer Roskilde Festival ikke med nogen Danske festivaler, det gør vi sgu ikke. Altså du kan se, nu spiller Bomba Esterio på Heartland. De har spillet. De har spillet 3 eller 4 gange hos os allerede, øhm. Sidste år havde, da de var i Berlin, nu kommer de så til Albertslund, øhm, hvad hedder de, Efterklangs, badesøens festival "The Lake". Øhm de havde sidste år Master Musicians of Jajouka, dem har vi haft på vores festival nogengange og de havde set dem hos os. Og sådan er det, altså man kan sige, de artister, som, fra verdensmusik-kassen, som måtte ende på en anden dansk festival, det sker fordi at de, sådan har det i hvert fald været indtil nu, at de er godt klar over at der ikke er noget job på årets Roskilde Festival, fordi det er der de helst vil spille.

A: Ja. Har du noget opfølgende?

C: Næh, det har jeg ikke. Nu har du også snakket helt vildt.

Transskribering interview Thomas

A: Hurtigt, kan du beskrive hvad din rolle er i denne gruppe, hvor længe du har været her og hvornår du startede?

B: jeg heddet thomas, og jeg er en del af musikgruppen, har været en del af musikgruppen siden 2010. jeg har været frivillig i musikgruppen siden 2010 indtil 2015 hvor jeg startede fuldtid herude. fra 2015 til nu hvor jeg stadig er herude. jeg indstiller vores indie/alternative program, jeg indstiller vores hiphop program og vores elektroniske program, og booker på alle scenerne. jeg har primært beskæftigelse med navne som ikke er fra skandinavian medmindre de er på et europæiske/engelsk/amerikansk agentur.

61 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: lad os bare dykke ned i processen fra start til slut. vi ved der er en research fase hvor i går ud og samler informartion. fortæl om hvordan du angriber den hvornår starter du?

B: vi er allerede igang nu med '18 kan man sige og også for '19 på en eller anden måde. jeg tror at fordi at mange at de navne vi prøver at sakse (?) ind skal være de nye stjerneskud, så vil vi gerne fange dem så tidligt som overhovedet muligt. det er vigtigt for os at vi ser alle navnene live, så vi bruger enormt meget tid på at rejse ud og se koncerter og formater så vi kan sakse tilbage til festivalen. der er enormt meget rejseaktivitet, specielt her i efteråret, og i foråret bruger vi også en del tid på at rejse, men det er primært for at kigge på året efter eller se formen på de bands vi har booket for at sikre os de er på den rigtige scene. fordi at de navne jeg booker ikke nødvendigvis spiller i DK, bruger jeg meget tid på nettet og kigge på videoer og blogs, og på forskellige medier. jeg har et stort netværk i en masse labels, jeg har et stort netværk i forhold til andre festivaler som minder om os men ligger andre steder i verden, som er gode til at pitche ind med artister de har booket inde hos dem som kunne være interessante for os. det er klart vigtigt at de mennesker som pitcher ideer ind er nogen vi kan stole på, så derfor gør vi også noget ud af at invitere herover på festivalen eller tage over og besøge dem og snakke med dem og forstå deres festivalformat, fordi at festivaller er forskellige og specielt inde for NGO, som vi er, hvor vi donerer vores overskud 100% til vegørenhed, så er der mange andre festivaler som siger de gør det samme, hvor det så viser sig at de gør det på nogen punkter men efter de så har trukket en masse ting fra. Det er vigtigt for vores tætte netværk at de ved præcis hvad vi står for. det er også en stor del af vores fase, det er at researche os frem til de festivaler vi tror kan være en god ambassadør for os, og få fortalt dem den type festival vi er.

A: så i denne fase er netværket for dig en stor del af det?

B: ja det er en stor del af det. helt klart, fordi der er også nogle af de her artister som ikke nødvendigvis - man ved godt om the weeknd kan spille, det kan man både læse, se og høre, men de små artister spiller ikke nogen shows, så har de måske spillet et lille show på stengade eller på loppen. det kan være svært at forholde sig til rigtigt, for det er noget andet at spille for de 2-5000 mennesker. det er en helt anden scene du skal kunne være i stand til at løfte op. derfor er det vigtigt at netværket der står for de andre festivaler kan være med til at fortælle os at denne artist faktisk kan stå og spille foran 10.000 mennesker, selv han/hun måske kun har lavet en EP. det er klart netværket der kan være med til at fortælle historien før vi kan læse om det eller gå ud og se showsene. der er labels også rigtig gode fordi de mindre labels sakser artister tidligt, og det gør de ud fra at de har set dem eller hørt om dem. når sub-pop signer et eller andet act, så er det fordi de har spillet på et lille spillested i seattle som de har set. det er ikke sikkert at de ikke kommer videre ud og spille, men det er en indikation om at når de så en dag skulle ud og komme, kan vi gå ned og se dem hvis de har fået positiv feedback fra labelsene af.

A: det leder jo op til noget interessant, som er dette med, at i skal prøve og finde ud af hvad folk gerne vil høre et halvt eller helt år frem, og så dette med hvordan i baserer det på jeres egen smag som i skal ligge på hylden for at kunne repræsentere dette festival publikum, om i har nogle skabeloner i følger til at prøve og ramme den smag, eller hvordan i prøver at forudse de trends, om netværket er nok. hvordan gør man det her med at lægge sin smag på hylden og prøve at forudsige en efterspørgsmål? er det denne dybe research i blogs og trends? og det er jo ikke trenden lige nu, det er trenden frem i tiden? er det noget i tænker meget over?

B: ja vi vil selvfølgelig gerne være med til at udklække den nye store stjerne, det er klart det vi vil fordi det er den gode historie for os, som artister som disclosure på apollo og op til orange. vi har en hel stribe af artister der har gjort det igennem tiden. det er klart at det er vigtigt for os. vi kan også se på artisterne, hvilken vej de er på, hvilket management og labels de ender på, hvilken agent der har dem, så kan man fornemme "ok der er noget der kan løfte dem op". så kan det være det ikke passer på RF publikummet, det kan sagtens være en artist som bare ikke fungerer på vores scener. så melder vi afbud på dem, eller siger nej til dem, og det kan jo have den konsekvens at folk siger "hallo de er mega stor på spotify/youtube" eller noget, men det duer ikke hvis det bare er playback for eksempel. det gider vores publikum ikke, det er ikke den type festival vi vil give, det er der mange andre festivaller man kan ud og opleve det på, hvor man booker måske mere ud fra hitlister i stedet for at forsørge at skabe de ting som efterfølgende havner på hitlisterne. tendenser kan man sige er en anden ting, da det enormt meget også handler om en følelse vi har i maven når vi researcher festivalerne, så står vi og hører musikken, men går også rundt og observerer stemningen på selve festivalen. nogen tendenser kommer jo aldrig til DK, det gælder jo også for sociale medier, ikke alle medier kommer til DK og rammer alle steder. men man kan sige at den urbane kultur har vi været med på fra dag et af, vi havde også trap'en som de første. vi var de første der kørte trap ind i danmark hvor vi i 2012-13 lavede apollo scenen. hele den urbane kultur, vi prøver at bevise at vi er med på den, ved ikke bare at lave den pop/r&b ting men lige så meget gå tilbage og samle de gamle op, og prøve at kigge på byer som fx. Philadelphia (philly), der er begyndt at vokse op som en af de største byer i hophop, efter nyc kom philly så efterfølgende. med nogen af de byer som er begyndt at komme igen synes jeg vi er ret godt med på de tendenser, på at skabe dem. det er klart, der er nogle tendenser som er svære at presse ind fordi de ikke passer ind i vores festivalsformat. det kan være enormt meget af sådan nogle mere ekstreme genrer inden for fx elektronisk musik eller alternative/indie som kan være svære at presse ind fordi vi ikke har rammerne, vi kan ikke give dem de rigtige forudsætninger, hvor de klart passer bedre inde i en skov eller en fabriksbygning som har noget højde til loftet og ikke under en teltdug. Øhm, så der er også nogen ting vi er nødt til at give afkald på, øhm, men det er vigtigt for os at vi er med til at skabe, øhh, det er jo det der er hele vores fundament, det er at vi synes det er sjovt jo. Altså det er ikke sjovt bare at sidde og booke de fede ting, det jo, altså, de ting vi ved der er store. Det er sjovere at booke de små. Jeg synes faktisk der er et generelt problem i hele det der vækstlags problematik i Danmark. Det er at jeg kan sagtens se i Danmark musikbranchen om 10 år, der ikke nødvendigvis har små spillesteder mere. Fordi at de, hvad hedder det, lige nu er det mega hipt at købe billetter til store ting. Altså arenaen er udsolgt, altså festivallerne sælger ud. Det, alle folk vil gerne købe de der billetter, de sparer op til og køber dem ikke. Går du ned på stengade eller Rust eller på Global eller på. Global går så godt kan man sige, men Loppen eller nogen af de andre så er det jo, der står jo næsten ikke nogen mennesker på dem mere. Og mange er dem så bare gæstelistefolk ikke. Det er jo en udfordring, for det er jo ligesom der de nye de bliver skabt, og der har vi, kan man sige, fra festivalen, Roskilde Festival har et kæmpe ansvar for at skabe den der platform og det synes jeg er vigtigt at holde fast i. Det gør vi både

62 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen ved at vi har de der warm-up dage, vi har Count Down vi har Rising til at skabe de nye ting. Men vi gør det også på festivalen til hoved- dagene, vi har jo nogle acts som folk aldrig har hørt om før, som lige pludselig eksploderer, som vi havde. Og og, det klart at hvis man går op i kroner og ører, så er det klart så er det måske sjovere at lave de der store ting for der kommer folk til og det lidt sjovere for spillestedet hvis der er mange mennesker, men de her små vækstlagsspillesteder har bare et, altså er kanon-vigtigt for fødekæden. Det kan bare komme til at være enormt farligt, hvis man ikke har de der ting. Det kunne man godt, der er også nogle af de andre festivaler i Danmark, det kunne også være i udlandet, som, som booker primært navne som man kender. Så køber folk billetterne. Men på et eller andet tidspunkt så er der bare ikke de navne man kender, hvis der ikke er nogen man ligesom kan, kan hvad hedder det, der kan udklække dem vel. A: Nej så er der lidt sådan bæredygtighed i også at.. B: Ja men det er jo totalt, det er fuldstændig bæredygtighed i det. Altså vi prøver at gøre det hele vi prøver at starte dem og så prøver vi at have dem igen når de bliver større og få dem igen. Og til sidst så er de store at de spiller Orange og så kan vi ikke gøre mere for dem og så går de ud og spiller andre festivaller bagefter ikke. Øhh, ja eller, eller ja, større scener eller Parken eller hvad de nu laver bagefter. Jeg tror bare at den der, hele den der, helt nede i kælderen altså hvor du går helt ned og tager chancer med at booke de der små ting det er ligesom det er det vores DNA jo, det er det som vi i musikgruppen synes der er, det er jo det vi alle synes der er aller aller fedest det er jo at være med til at gøre den del, den forskel. Og udklække nye talenter. Øhh.. A: Hvornår diskuterer i denne her DNA. Altså hvornår øhh er det noge i bare sådan forstår at i har eller så snakker i om det.. B: Altså jaahhhh, vi har en hel skriv på vores strategi i musikgruppen om hvordan vi gør det, hvordan vi går ud og scouter og hvordan vi booker og vi har forskellige, vi skal jo sikre os at hele vores program er så diverst som overhoved muligt, så vi ikke bliver en niche- festival. Fordi det har vi ikke, vi har kun 175 pladser og man kan sige, hvis vi bare kun skulle lave ren hiphop festival så kunne du hurtigt bruge 80 pladser på det og så ville vi være ren hiphop. Så det er klart, det er en udfordring af at vi jo har begrænset pladser, øhm. Og så tror jeg at i forhold til at sikre DNA'en øhhhh ehh, er det også den del af det med publikums-DNAen som vi ikke kan gøre noget ved. Vi kan godt booke en artist ind som vi ser live, der kan finde ud af at stå på en scene og der kan finde ud af at spille og har et fedt materiale og sådan noget. Det kan vi gøre. Vi kan også sikre os at publikum der står der, er den allersgruppe som det nu er og de har haft en fed oplevelse på festivalen fordi der har været øh sol, det kan vi ikke styre selv selvfølgelig, men der kan jo være toiletter, der kan være mad, der kan, alle mulig andre forhold der gør at de har haft en god festival. Og når disse to mødes, så skaber det en eller interaktion mellem scenen altså artisten og så vore publikum. Og det møde mellem de to, det er ikke noget vi kan booke ind, det er bare noget der sker og det er det møde der som er så vildt unikt på Roskilde Festival. En artist der kommer ud og kan mærke det der sus de får fra publikum. Fordi så står der de der 2-3000 mennesker og synger med på deres numre og de er måske vant til at spille på et eller andet lille bitte spillested for 200 mennesker, 100 mennesker eller 60 mennesker eller hvad det nu er. Øh, så de får en eller anden magisk følelse af, hey der er sgu nogen her der er helt vilde, og mange af de der bands, som der ikke, måske spiller i Europa her nogensinde igen, eller som er første gang de spiller her. De gør jo nogengange, de bliver helt paf og går lige et skridt tilbage og tænker hvad fanden er det der sker her altså, det har de aldrig oplevet før det der. Og publikum de kan også godt mærke det ikke, altså der kommer en artist ud og får det der drive ikke og sparker de her publikum helt op under loftet og så har man den der effekt, der ligepludselig gør, at koncerten bliver meget bedre end den kunne have været end hvis det var at, hvis man stod og kiggede ned i gulvet mens man spillede guitar eller publikum bare var sådan lidt "åhhh, de er fanme, øllene er lidt for dyre" eller "toiletterne er ikke rene" eller "24 slagsmål" og et eller andet ikke. Så der, jeg tror det er det der sammenspil mellem artisten og øhm publikum kan vi ikke gøre noget ved, men det er det der, det er det med at drive, at hvad hedder det, at vi har vi den festival vi har. A: Okay, øhm. B: Så der er både en musikgruppe DNA og så er der en publikums DNA det tror jeg er rigtig vigtigt. A: Lige til sidst i denne her research-fase. Har du generelt nogen person, når du er ude og se koncerter, har du sådan en personlig guideline til hvad du synes er godt. Altså hvis nu du skal ligge denne her smag på hylden og sige, det er ikke lige min slags musik. Men jeg ved at det her er en god koncert og jeg ved at andre ville kun lide den. Hvordan, hvordan laver du den vurdering. Er det sådan erfaringsmæssigt eller er der sådan.

B: Mhmmm, ja altså musikgruppen er jo på den måde at vi mødes en gang om måneden og så diskuterer vi navnene. Og heldigvis så er der, ved alle i musikgruppen lidt om alles genre. Så er det klart at der er nogen af os der er eksperter inden på områderne. Men kan hurtigt trække en reference ud og hvis man så synes, hvis jeg nu synes en eller anden artist er for mig personligt super fedt, så er det meget godt at nogen af de andre kan finde på at, at øh. D: Jeg tror vi har måde herinde. B: Okay kan du lige give mig 2 minutter jeg skal lige tale færdig. Tak. Øhm så er det vigtig, at, så er der nogen af de andre der er gode til at komme ind og sige at, hvad hedder det "er det ikke federe med denne her artist" eller "jeg synes sgu denne her plade er lidt dårlig", "jeg så den engang for 3 år siden, der var de ret dårlige og der kunne de ikke fungere live" og sådan noget. Men, men jeg tror at man er jo nødt til at stole på at de folk der sidder i musikgruppen lige nu er godt til at lægge deres egen smag på hylden. Øhhh, og det er helt klart, det kan være svært, øh hvad hedder det, det er også derfor vi kun er gruppe bestående af så få mennesker til at booke et så betydningsfuldt program. Fordi at det er en svære kunne og også i det her, denne her branche hvor alle folk gerne vil være venner med dig, fordi du sidder og booker Roskilde Festival kan det være rigtig svært ikke gå ind og sige "ja selvfølgelig skal vi nok det, du er sgu en sød fyr eller en god pige" eller sådan "din artist vil vi sgu gerne booke, fordi du er sgu.." du ved ikke. A: Så der er meget, i stoler meget på hinanden i denne her gruppe? B: Jahh, man stoler på, stoler på at man ikke udnytter sin position ikke. Altså så kan det godt være at jeg er vildt gode venner med en eller anden agent øhh, men at den artist vil jeg ikke købe, og så kan det godt være at personen bliver mega sur over det og så er det noget med at

63 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen adskille mellem det personlige og det faglige og det er der nogen der er gode til og nogen der ikke er gode til. I musikgruppen er vi gode til at hjælpe hinanden med det. Og huske hinanden på at det er derfor vi er her. Vi kan ikke booke ud fra vores personlige smag. Hvis vi begynder at gøre det, kan man sige, så må man jo, så skal man finde et andet sted at lægge sine folder ikke. SKIFTER LOKALE!!! A: Okay men lad os blive i det her musikgruppemøde. Så har du lavet research og du har, i har de her indstillingslister og så skal i overbevise hinanden ud fra at nogen ved bedre om noget og nogen.. Hvordan foregår denne her process? B: Øhhm, altså vi ser jo alle sammen på den store helhed. Og, forhåbentlig skal vi ikke ud i sådan nogle hvor vi. Det er vi nogengange kan man sige, øh, nogen, nogen helt vildt uoverensstemmelser. Øh det er godt at være uenig fordi det er en anledning til nogle gode diskussioner, men i bund og grund så skal vi stole på at de folk der indstiller ved præcis hvad de indstiller. SKIFTER LOKALE! A: Ja øhm, bookingprocessen, eller musikgruppemøderne. Overbevisningsprocessen. B: Øhm, når vi har en hel ren spilleplan som vi har nu, så er det jo mere, så er der ikke så meget kamp om pladserne kan man sige i at sikre sine, at, vi skal sikre os at der en relativ lige fordeling af alle de forskellige genre. Og det er der, når vi kommer tættere på at vi skal til at, ved at være færdige med programmet, så er der få pladser og så er det at vi begynder at diskuterer rigtig meget op og ned hvad det er for nogen der er, der kan man sige, der er der mange faktorer der kan spille ind i hvad for nogle navne, der kan blive valgt som de sidste pladser. Det kan være at vi både vil på South By og se de sidste, se de sidste stjerner, få dem med. Det kan også være en bestemt genre vi måske ikke lige har været så gode til at prioriterer. Øhm, eller det kan være en tendens som vi synes vi faktisk gerne vil have fokus på mere end vi havde regnet med. Øh, så de sidste pladser kan man sige er altid dem der er lidt sjove fordi det er der man kommer til at snakke om rigtig mange forskellige ting, hvor at de andre ting kan være, på en eller anden måde, giver, er lidt lettere, hvis man kan sige det sådan, at få lagt på, fordi der er så mange pladser man kan vælge mellem. Så jeg, jeg ved sgu ikke, altså, jeg synes vi er gode til at diskuterer navnene i gruppen, øhm, og jeg synes det er rigtig godt at diskuterer dem, jeg synes det er pissegodt at være uenig. A: Hvordan, hvad for nogle argumenter bruger du, når du, f.eks.? B: Øhh. Jeeeg har et, altså, jeg sidder meget, jeg kigger meget på labels-tingen, det gør jeg helt klart. Jeg ser meget på hvor artisterne bliver signet henne. Ikke på, det er der ikke nogen af os der rigtig gør, ser på hvad for nogle priser de har vundet, eller hvor mange streamings de har eller noget som helst. Vi ser rigtig meget på labels-tingen og så ser jeg rigtig meget på hvordan deres live-performance er. Og nogle gange ved man også hvad for en agent der har dem. Og nogen agenter ved man ligesom gør noget godt for artister og nogen agenter gør ikke noget godt. Det kan også være hvad for nogle andre festivaler de er booket på, hvis man taler mellem-navne og opad. Hvis man taler de helt små, så er vi jo tit de første der booker tingene. I hvert fald i Europa, måske uden for Europa helt sikkert. Øhm, men jeg synes at, for mig er label-delen en, en en klart en vigtig parameter og også vigtigere end de sociale medier og forsider og alt muligt andet, øhm, ja. Live og live og, deres live og hvad hedder det deres label. A: Og her kan det også som du siger betyde at måske kender agenten. Er det, så er der også lidt networking her, at i stoler, i kender nogle typer som i stoler på? B: Ja man kan sige det er i hvert fald ikke med til at, det har ikke den modsatte effekt. Altså hvis det er en, hvis det er en loyal agent og en man stoler på. Øh som ikke har, har snydt en eller har drevet gæk med en eller har presset prisen helt op eller hvad det er nu er at de er styret af på deres side, og det kan være de er styret af en management eller en artist som der bare skal have nogle penge i kassen og jeg kan se at han / hun laver et fedt album, så skal de bare have så mange penge som overhoved muligt. Man kan mærke det er en agent som virkelig taler for vores sag overfor resten af baglandet. Det er klart, så kommer det den person til gode næste gang han kommer med en artist. Så vil gerne se på hvad han har og tage det mere seriøst end en eller andet, der bare sender 200 bands afsted og bliver skide sur over at man ikke vil booke et af hans 200 bands. Det er jo klart, det er jo også noget med, altså, vi prøver også at komme ud til de her festivaler fordi vi kun jo har et åbent vindue 8 dage om året og reelt kun 4 dage, fordi det er der vi har vores internationale program ikke. Hvor en del andre festivaler har jo en masse andet end bare en festival. Så har de måske et bookingbureau ved siden af hvor de kan lave koncerter løbende eller de har måske et spillested eller de har 3 andre festivaler eller et eller andet hvor de kan bruge andre platformer og andre vinduer til det. Og vores udfordring at vi kun har, kan man sige, festivalen til at lave noget af. Så vores relation til igennem, kan hurtigt blive glemt på en eller anden måde hos dem fordi at vi kun er her en gang om året. Så det er vigtigt at vi kommer ud og har den tætte relation til dem. Til de her agenter, og det gør jo så også at dem vi svinger rigtig godt med kan jo også godt bruge os som en platform og sige, jeg er, jeg har en virkelig god connection til Roskilde skal jeg ikke prøve at få denne her artist på, og så kan det være hun får en eller andet artist ind som sagtens kunne have havnet et andet sted, øm. Vores interesse er også at det er gode mennesker der får de gode artister. B: Øhm, og så det her med at overbevise hinanden i forhold til, hvad for en baggrund folk har? Med dig. Har du en tidligere baggrund. Er der en speciel musik-erfaring som gør at man bliver lyttet mere til i sådan en gruppe her? A: Mhmmm. Altså jeg er den sidste, ud af vores, vi har en frivillig pige der lige er kommet til der hedder Kim. Ellers så er jeg den sidste der blev ansat herude ud af musik-gruppen. Jeg har været Rust inde på spillestedet og der er det jo primært elektronisk musik og urban musik. Så, det er klart at indenfor de to genre kan man siger, er jeg, er jeg god til at vurderer synes jeg. Den indie alternative er en jeg altid har lyttet på, men egentlig er mere blevet oplært i af en der hedder Marianne som var her, som faktisk var her før Kim. Hun sidder så, Marianne sidder så i bestyrelsen nu og hun har været her i musikgruppen i næsten 20 år. Og hun var ligesom musikgruppens indie-øre. Og hende var jeg med i min periode mens hun var her i de 6 år. Og derfor så er det, så derfor så har jeg ligesom overtaget den indstillingsprocess. Men indie kan man sige er mere bredt for alle kan jo, alle, om man kan lide det eller ej, så høre alle, alle har et forhold til genren indie. Alle kender, lytter på et indie-band selvom man er monster hiphop eller mega metal. Så, hvad hedder det, så har man, så hører man indie-musik, det gør du måske ikke med elektronisk musik eller altså eller verdensmusik på samme måde. Så derfor så er det en genre, som der er, som alle folk ved ret meget om, så det er ikke, den er ikke så vanskelig kan man sige og få udfyldt. Men der ligger en del

64 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen research i at fange. Der kommer også enormt mange indie-bands ud ikke. Altså hele Brooklyn emmer jo bare af indie-bands hver eneste år. Så man skal finde den ene eller de to måske, der kan gøre en stor forskel. Og det tager lang tid at reache. A: Ja. Også du siger du bliver oplært i en genre. Så det er sådan, det er rimelig opdelt virker det til, for at man ligesom har nogle enkelte eksperter? B: Ja, ja. Altså indie-ting blev jeg oplært i af Marianne der ikke og elektronisk og hiphop'en den har jeg ligesom haft med kan man sige fra starten af. Men, men, det, altså man kan sige, det har både Peter og Stefan, det har de jo også. De kom jo ind i musik-gruppen i sin tid uden at vide en dyt om det de sidder og indstiller nu ikke. Både Stefan blev, blev sat han skulle have alt det Danske dengang han startede herude ikke. Og så begyndte han jo at køre videre med det f.eks. Og også metal-delen. Han lyttede til rock og sådan noget før, men specifikt metal-delen var også en ting han ikke nødvendigvis selv ville have valgt, hvis det var dengang. Og nu er han jo bare sindsyg god til det, fordi at det passer perfekt til ham og han har sat sig godt ind i det, og det samme med Peter med verdensmusikken og sådan noget. Øhh, det er altså, så det er også noget med jeg tror også det gode det er at på en eller anden måde kan faren ved at tage folk der præcist er i miljøet og hive dem ind og sidde og gøre det de gør fordi de har et netværk som der kan være svært for dem måske at skelne mellem øhm. For mig var det ret svært, synes jeg, for det elektroniske, og hvad hedder det, nu er der ikke så mange dansk-elektroniske agenter, der er stort set ikke rigtig nogen. Så derfor så er det ikke så svært, men det er klart at der er mange danske artister, der spiller elektronisk musik, som så ikke spiller i Danmark som spiller i udlandet. Og dem kan man sige, har jeg et tæt forhold til fordi de spillede så meget på Rust dengang. Og der kan det nogengange være svært at gå ind og skrive til den person og sige "nej det kommer ikke til at gå" hvor det er nemmere at gøre det igennem en agent. Fordi agenten skal nok omformulere det på en eller anden måde så det er okay appetitteligt. Men når du siger, når du giver et afslag til en eller anden du kender, så kan du nogengange tolke det som om at det både kan være personligt, øhh, og det kan være en ret stor kritik af vildt mange ting, hvor det egentlig bare handler om stemningen. Altså, du sælger bananer, men jeg vil gerne have æbler, øhm, og det synes jeg, det kan nogengange være lidt besværligt det der, men det er ikke så meget mere nu end det har været lang tid, så er det egentlig okay. Altså folk kan også godt forstå at det er sådan det er. A: Ja. Hvordan synes du om hele denne her process med at i researcher, i laver indstillingslister, i diskuterer. Er det en fed måde at arbejde på?

B: Jeg tror det er en sund måde at arbejde på, fordi at det er mhmm. Vi er også meget forskellige i musikgruppen ikke. Det er også at, både aldersmæssigt og erfaringsmæssigt, øh, så det er ret sundt at vi, at vi har diskussionen om hver enkelt artist. Og det er rigtig sundt når vi er uenige. Altså, når man så indstiller et navn, så er det jo gennemtænkt. Det er jo ikke sådan at man bare siger det fordi man tænker "det kunne sgu være meget sjovt at præsenterer denne her navn, det kunne være meget fint". Det skal virkelig være, det skal virkelig være, det er ikke sikkert de andre spørger om argumenter, men for en, i ens eget hovede skal man jo ligesom vide præcis hvorfor man vælger denne her artist ud fra en række argumenter, fordi der kommer navne og spørg og siger med tiden og siger "jamen, vi kan da præcis det samme som dem der, hvorfor har i booket dem". Og så skal man jo være klar til at forklare dem hvorfor, fordi vi er ikke interesserede i bare at skrive til dem "det rager ikke jer" vel. Det er ikke vores måde. Vi vil gerne være så, altså, så personlige som muligt.

B: Åbne og..

A: Ja, der, folk bliver fravalgt af forskellige årsager og hvis folk gerne vil vide det, så synes jeg også det fair at de får det ad vide. Øhm. Jeg synes det er en god process. Jeg kan ikke se hvordan processen kunne være anderledes, for at vi netop sikre denne her musikalske DNA.

B: Er den meget ens hvert år? Altså..?

A: Ja det tror jeg den er. Jeg vil sige, der kommer jo det der hvor vi så lige pludselig finder nye platformer, altså det kan være en ny scene ikke. Eller at vi åbner scenen op tidligere eller lukker den senere eller hvad vi nu gør. Så er det klart, så er det nogle andre navne der kommer på. Øhm, nu er Apollo vores seneste helt nye scene. Avalon blev jo ombygget og har stort set nogenlunde det samme indhold som den har haft tidligere, men Apollo var den scene der skulle komme ind i 13 og være den rent elektroniske scene og har så udviklet sig mere over til at være elektronisk urban scene på en eller anden måde, fordi det er ligesom de to genre nærmest bare ligger sammen. Og det kan sagtens være der kommer behov for at lave en scene på et tidspunkt som er helt.. Altså det er jo det der med det der vækslagsting. Det kan godt være der kommer behov for at man laver en scene som kan huse mindre artister, fordi der mangler hele denne der vækstlagsting. Det kan også være der kommer behov for at lave en scene, som øh, som er helt lukket til ligesom den gamle Ballroom scene, vi havde, hvor der var tribuner nede bag ved hvor man sad inde og sådan noget. Øhm, og det sidder vi jo hele tiden hver år, hvad hedder, og snakker om, om vi skal gøre det, altså. Vi har haft 7 scener, nu har vi jo 6 scener. Så det er også en ting, altså det er jo en process, der hele tiden er under udvikling.

A: Ja okay. Det næste step fra research til musikgruppemøde og så skal i rent praktisk booke dem. Øhm, er der en, er der en længere forhandlingsprocess tit, eller får i som regel i vil have ud fra Roskilde-navnet? Øhm, der er jo så også forskel på internationale og nationale garanteret?

B: Ja der er jo, i hvert fald, altså jeg sidder ikke med de nationale, men det er klart at de nationale de er jo, for dem er det jo tit en drøm, de har haft siden de har startet med at øve, at få love at på Roskilde Festival. Derfor så er det jo noget lettere tit og, og lande en aftale med dem. Jeg, jeg skal, og økonomisk og sådan noget er det jo også tit en.. Det betyder selvfølgelig noget at de får noget økonomi, det er klart, men det er jo ikke så vigtigt for dem som det er at spille selve showet, fordi de godt kan se, at hvis vi spiller det her show, så vil de gå ud og sælge de her venues bagefter. De får nye publikummer, hvis de spiller det her ikke. Og de udenlandske de skal netop forstå festivalen

65 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen før det giver mening for dem at spille, altså. Alle folk kender Roskilde Festival, det jo vores, det er en stor force, den har været her så mange år. Og mange agenter og agenturer har haft bands på og så kommer tilbage og fortæller godt om festivalen og det er klar, det er jo vores fordel. Der er nogen artister de, det er jo klart, de skal rejse 5-6 mennesker et eller andet sted fra. Så koster det jo nogle penge, og det skal man jo ind og vurderer, hvor mange penge er det så værd i forhold til hvad man faktisk vil give dem for at spille den hyre ikke.

A: De her vurderinger, dem laver i på tidligere års skabeloner eller er det sådan..?

B: Jahh, man kan sige, vi har en rimelig god feeling af hvad tingene koster, øhh, og vi kan godt vurdere artistens, det er jo igen, det er jo alle de, alle de forudsætninger der er rundt, altså når du har artisten så alle de ting der er rundt om, så kan vi godt vurdere og sige "jamen okay så koster de nok cirka det her" eller de minder lidt om denne her artist vi havde sidste år og hvad gav vi dem. Øhm og så kan vi godt gå ind og give et bud, og man kan sige, agenterne er jo også interesserede i at få artisten på som regel, så de er jo også rimelig cool til at vende tilbage og sige, deet der her, de siger jo aldrig det er for meget, de siger så enten at det er ligetil eller lidt for lidt ikke. Men jeg synes at den dialog, synes jeg egentlig er så smertefuld. Det er klart at når vi kommer op på de helt store artister, så afhænger det jo også ligeså meget af deres touring-periode. Om de faktisk er ude og spille i den periode eller om hvad det er. Eller om man skal flyve dem ind til at spille de her shows og så bliver det lige pludselig enorm dyrt, og så handler det om hvad for nogle budgetter vi har tilbage. Men som regel fordi, de mindre artister og også lidt mellem-artisterne, så booker vi dem jo tit på det tidspunkt, hvor det er at de ikke måske kender deres årsplan endnu. Så prøver de at lægge festivalplanernen rundt om Roskilde Festival.

A: Men det er ikke noget der fylder virkelig meget i hele processen? Altså, det er mere research og overbevisningen?

B: Joooh, jeg vil sige det fylder en del. Det fylder en del med at have dialoger med festivaler der ligger i samme periode som os, for at sikre os, hvad det er vi prøver at, ikke nødvendigvis de store navne altså der ved vi godt, der ligger vi ret unikt alene med at kunne lægge sådan penge som, altså for at have de store artister på. Mellem-navnene og nogle navne som er sværere at få ud, gør det helt klart stærkere at vi slår os sammen med nogle af de festivaler. Der ligger for eksempel, i samme weekend som os ligger der jo en Hollandsk festival der er ren hiphop, der hedder Wooha, som vi snakker meget i forhold hiphip-drengene. Og der kan man sige elektronisk, der ligger der en festival også, der hedder Pitch, som vi også snakker med i forhold til elektroniske navne. Og det er klart det, man kunne også sagtens snakke med Primavera hvis det var det, men de ligger en måned før os, så det vil ikke give så meget mening at lave en aftale med dem, for så skal artisten bruge en hel måned på at finde andre steder.

A: Ja, men det vil sige at når i ringer og booker en hiphop-artist, så kan i sige "vi har snakket med denne her festival, og de vil også booke jer"

B: Eeej, det er mere bare at sikre sig at, det er mere hvis man ved at denne her artist kan være svær at få ud til dette her ene show og der ikke er andre festivaler i vores weekend som vi kender, som har lyst til at have dem her, så kan man sige, så kan bruge den der med at ringe. Jeg vil sige hvis du har Niklas ??? kan man sige, altså han kan jo sagten spille 1000 andre festivaler, han passer jo til alle festivaler. Hvis de har et eller andet ???? (33:44) eller sådan hip hop eller sådan et eller andet og det er meget specifikt hip hop så er det klart, så de festivaler som ville kunne lægge et bud kan vi ligeså godt ringe til og sige, vi kunne godt tænke os ham her artisten, har i overvejet denne her artist. Og så, så går vi ikke ind og siger det til agenten med mindre agenten spørger og siger kan i ikke hjælpe med lige at presse på hos de her festivaler og spørge dem om de ikke er interesserede, fordi jeg har brug for 2 bud mere for at det kan lade sig gøre at de kommer afsted. Det er jo vores interesse at få denne her artist, så det vil vi gerne hjælpe med at det kan lade sig gøre. Så det kan vi godt finde på at snakke med de andre festivaler om.

A: Okay, spænende. Øhm, hvad gør i så hvis et band aflyser? Har i nogle, er det bare henad vejen? Løse det som kommer eller er der nogen..?

B: I de gode gamle dage, der havde man jo et, der havde man jo faktisk et band købt ind til at være på festivalen til, altså (band navn ????, 34:32) gik jo på festivallen tit i mange år og bare var gæster derude. Og kom der så en aflysning, så røg de ind som erstattere. Det var en gammel ting, der havde man et band i buffer, fordi at dengang... dengang du ved, det var ikke så mange år tilbage, der kunne man ikke bare ringe til vedkommende vel, der skulle man ligesom faxe og så tog det bare en milliard og scanne og alt muligt andet shit, så derfor så var det nemmere at man havde den der backup artisten, så kunne de være gæster, men de skulle bare være klar til at steppe til, hvis det var der skete noget. Og der vil jeg sige, der er det noget nemmere idag, hvor man ligesom kan ringe rundt og forhøre sig om de kan rykke ind og sådan noget. Og det er jo klart det er, øhm, når det sker, øhhhh, og hvis det sker, så er det, jo tidligere i processen det er, jo nemmere for os er det at finde en erstatter, der både giver 1 til 1, altså, der passer ind i det miljø, så miljøet ikke bliver skide sur. Når du står ude på festivalen så skal vi finde en artist der passer på niveauet og ikke nødvendigvis på genren. Og det er jo helt crazy, det er jo mega svært. Fordi mange af de sidste som der ligesom er blevet tilbudt igennem tiden har vi højst sandsynlig takket nej til, de har jo som regel fundet noget andet ikke. Og tit når det er en erstatning, der er brug for en erstatning, så er det øhh, så er det jo sådan en dato, det er en specifik dato, alt hvad der sker fra nu fremad er jo en specifik dato og et specifikt slot, fordi alle de andre tider er jo aftalt nu. Så det gør jo, det er noget med at, det er noget med at indskrænke og finde denne her artist. Vi har en buffer-liste vi har en brutto liste som vi ved der spiller på den festival, den festival som har et hul den 1st juli f.eks. Den gemmer så, vi, hvis det skulle ske så kan vi finde de her 5 navne frem per dag, som vi ligesom kan sige, dem kan vi ligesom. Men til den tid kan det være at det er, tingene ændre sig helt, så. Vi har en lille liste.

66 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: Og så lige. I vil gerne lave nogle unikke koncerter. I vil gerne have at det skal være lidt specielt at være på Roskilde. Har Stefan i hvert fald sagt.

B: Ja, som artist?

A: Ja, så i kan enten bruge klausuler og sige i må ikke spille før eller efter, mest før. I kan skaffe gæste-optrædener, i laver de her speciel- events. Fylder det meget? Er det noget i tænker meget?

B: Jaahhh, altså, vi laver nogle sær-projekter hvert år det gør vi helt klart. Altså det er ikke sådan at hver enkelt artist, øhhh, skal være unik, fordi, det vil kræve alt for meget og det ville også være at lægge en hånd på deres kreativitet og sådan synes jeg. Det er klart at vi har en klausul om at de ikke skal spille en hvis periode før og efter festivalen i en hvis radius og kilometer-afstand og sådan noget, og det handler jo ligeså meget om at det ikke er at få mættet markedet for hurtigt. Det samme som at, nu, forhåbentlig, nu kan vi jo få udsolgt kan man sige inden alt for lang tid og det er klart at hvis der er nogle andre, nogle af de her artister ser vi begynde at spille venues, spillesteder i Danmark begynder at booke mange af de navne som vi har nu, fordi de kan se at hey nu sker der måske noget med dem det her halve år efter eller sådan noget ikke. Og der sætter vi jo pris på at de , at man ikke går ind og annoncerer det nu før vi får udsolgt fordi det kommer ikke til at gavne nogens billetsalg at man gør det. De små artister de betyder ikke så meget for vores billetsalg, men stadigvæk det er meget stærkere hvis vi går udsolgt og så de annoncerer en artist, fordi så kommer de til at kunne sælge billetter på spillestedet og det er også det det handler om for os. At vi også kan bruge det bagefter og sige, nu det her spillested, nu har de lagt et bud på denne her artist og billetsalget får virkelig godt. Det kan være det er effekten af at vi havde dem på Roskilde Festival. Og sådan er det jo tit med nogle af de her artister. Det kan vi bruge i vores. Alstå i vores forhandlinger næste gang vi skal sidde med de her agenter ikke.

A: Er jeres job på nogen måde kreativt i den sammenhæng? Altså, kommer i op med nogle koncept-ideer og..?

B: Ja ja, ja ja. Det gør vi og man kan sige vi gør det også, altså f.eks., konkret i år har vi jo altså, har vi jo det ene show med Moderat/Modeselektor på Orange som spiller 3 timer i streg ikke. Det har de aldrig lavet før, så de spiller først et show med Modeselektor og så spiller de et show med Moderat og det har de aldrig gjort før og det var en ting vi brugt hele, jeg tror vi brugte næsten en måneds tid på det i August sidste år. På at snakke med dem omkring den process fordi det er enormt krævende for dem at skulle være på 3 timer i streg. Og det er de gået med til og det er jo en, det bliver en ret fed ting, en ret unik ting. Øhm, vi har et symfoni-orkester, der spiller ovre på Arena. Det er er jo også, det er DRs symfoniorkester, som er også en meget speciel ting. Jeg er ikke sikker på at den er annonceret endnu dog er den ikke?

C: Jo.

B: Ja det er rigtigt, den er kommet ud, den kom ud for 2 - 3 uger siden øhm. Og så øhhh, så er det klart så er der noget fokus på de der kvinder. Hvad hedder det, der er jo altid folk der hviler, altså øjnenen kigger på og nogen mener det skal være 50 50 og nogen er måske lidt mere realistiske og siger, okay det skal være ud fra kvaliteten også. Altså hvad kan de ligesom leverer om det så er 80 % kvinder og 20 % mænd, der, bare det er kvaliteten det handler om ikke. Men det er klart jeg kan godt mærke, der har vi klart en, en større overvågenhed overfor, for den type af altså af genrer, hvor kvinder måske er mindre repræsenteret end de har været hidtil og med til at bygge den op igen, for der findet faktisk en del derude som er begyndt at snuse lidt til.. Det er specielt kan man sige, altså punkdelen og rockting er der flere og flere der begynder at komme med ind altså. Det er både 50/50 men også rene kvinde-ting, men hiphop tingene har det næsten altid været øhhh mænd. Og, der er lavet sådan en undersøgelse af at det er helt, altså, helt miljø-kultur-mæssigt er det derfor og alt muligt gøgl, men det begynder faktisk, nu begynder de faktisk at komme ind og være med i gamet og det er jo det der er rigtigt rigtig spændende. Vi har jo, altså vi har jo Princess Nokia og vi har Young MA i år, øhh, som er, som er, som ligeså vel kunne have været mænd i deres måde at rappe på, deres tekst og universet og sådan noget ikke. Og det synes jeg bare, det er en, det er en ting som vi har grebet og som vi også giver, gør opmærksom på overfor alle medierne, at det er faktisk det vi har gjort i år. Det er en ret stor ting og det kommer klart til at have effekt om 2 - 3 år, så kommer der til at være mange flere af dem. Og der indenfor synes jeg at det har været enormt vigitigt at vi tog.

A: Okay. Har du noget opfølgende?

C: Næh.

A: Så tror jeg ikke vi skal tage mere af din tid.

B: Det er fanme i orden.

67 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

Transskribering af pilot-interview – Stefan

A: Okay, som Emma sagde, så skal vi ligesom bare prøve at komme lidt nærmede på hvad det er i laver inde i denne her booking gruppe. Sådan lidt generelt hvor vi lige hopper over alle emnerne og så har vi noget vi kan hoppe ned i. Så det er planen. Så helt generelt kan du ikke prøve at beskrive hvordan den generelle process er når i skal booke et band og hvordan i generelt arbejder i en tidslinje fra at nu er det her års Roskilde slut og i skal igang til næste år? B: Jo, øhm, man kan sige nu er vi færdige med at booke det her års festival, så allerede nu er vi gået igang med at kigge på navnene til 2018, og vi har også lagt nogle bud på navnene til 2018. Men det er primært, så starter man sådan fra toppen af og arbejder sig ned, og det gør man primært fordi at det er økonomisk de største poster. Det er klart at hovednavne koster mere end Rising navne, så derfor er det meget godt at få en fornemmelse af hvor mange penge man behøver at bruge på og få lukket en to / tre, tre jah, tre hovednavne, store navne ikke. Og når man ligesom har en ide om det, kan man begynde arbejde sig nedefter, men dermed ikke sagt at vi ikke også kigger på navne der er mindre, fordi det gør vi også. Men det er primært noget med konkurrence at gøre, at vi gør det. Øhm, men det der så sker nu, det er at nu går vi fra, altså nu når festivalen er slut, nu er vi gået ind i sådan en periode, der er sådan en research periode, hvor man meget går ud og undersøger og læser øhh og jahh. Jahh. Ser en masse og får en masse anbefalinger ind og der er allerede mange agenter. Det bliver tidligere og tidligere og det har der været en tendens til de sidste 10 år, at det bliver tidligere og tidligere at bandsne de ligesom melder ud at de vil et eller andet. Altså, der er nogle ting hvor man siger, hvorfor fanden skal vi tage stilling dette her navn nu. Fordi der er noget man måske normalt ville for 5 eller 7 år siden skulle tage stilling til i Oktober eller November eller sådan et eller andet. Det har vi allerede nu fået af vide at vi skal begynde tage stilling til de her navne. Øhm men vi bruger rigtig meget tid på at tage ud og høre musik og koncerter og researche, skriver og læser om, øhm, magasiner og blogs og alt muligt og der er rigtig mange agenter der sender ting og siger, hey prøv lige at tjekke det her ud, og så går vi ligesom og skriver det ned på nogle lister og snakker om de der lister. Så man kan sige de musikgruppe-møder vi har nu handler meget, øhh nu det næste møde kommer til at handle om afviklingen af 2016 øhh 17 festival, men også omkring hvad.. Hvad er de ligesom vi skal lave til næste år, øhh med baggrund i nogle af de ting som agenterne har meldt ud af navne. Og sååå researcher vi frem til, sådan for alvor i indtil Oktober måned. Og der begynder vi sådan for alvor at booke programmet igen. Så der begynder vi på den måde at vi i gruppen er delt op med nogle, enten nogle områder som enten er geografisk bestemt eller også så er de genremæssigt bestemt. Så for eksempel så sidder jeg og booker alle bandsne til Danmark og til altså fra Danmark og Norden og Skandinavien, øhh Norge, Sverige, Finland, Island. Og de der ting, men udover det så har jeg også et genremæssigt der ligger i metal og rock, hård rock, psyke, alt sådan noget, punk, sådan det arbejder jeg med, men det er mere sådan genrespecifikt, hvorimod Thomas som jeg sidder på kontor med, han er meget på hiphop og elektronisk og indie og så også det man kunne kalde det inter-kontinental Europæiske, hvis man kan snakke om Norge og Sverige, eller hvad hedder det Tyskland og Belgien og Holland og sådan nogle ting. Og den måde man så arbejder på det er at nu, så går jeg igang med denne her research periode, som strækker fra. Fra en måned siden og så frem til Oktober / November og så begynder jeg at lave sådan nogle indstillingslister. Så har jeg jo researchet og skrevet en masse ting ned og undersøgt og så begynder vi ligesom på den måde at jeg så, indstiller jeg måske 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 navne til det første møde, der i November / Oktober - agtigt. Siger det er de her navne vi skal gå efter på det danske område eller det er noget af det jeg synes vi skal gå efter på metal. Og så øhhm, det er sådan en, et, en indstillingsliste jeg sender ud en uges tid før, og gerne med nogle links, så de kan høre hvad det er for noget, noget YouTube eller noget Soundcloud eller whatever, et eller andet. Det kunne også være en artikel om et eller andet. Hvorfor det er aktuelt og hvorfor det lige skulle være det her. Og så, når vi holder vores møde, så gennemgår man simpelthen bare lister. Så tager vi dem fra en ende af og så snakker vi om: Peter Hvalkof han indstiller world musik, så kommer han med en liste. Så fortæller han, at han har set det her band til en festival på Zanzibar eller et eller andet, og det var super fedt og det kunne det og det og det og der kommer en plade på det her tidspunkt og vi ved at de har mulighed for at være i Europa lige omkring os, hvis vi går med ind og lægger et bud på et tidspunkt, øhh og det samme gør jeg så med nogle af metal-tingene, allerede nu kan jeg sige: Jeg tror at det er vigtigt at vi har den og den og den eller jeg ved allerede at de har henvendt sig og at de ville kunne være aktuelt og pladen kommer i Februar næste år eller Marts næste år og jahh. Og så nogle gange så sidder vi sådan, så lad os starte med, så bliver vi enige om, så booker vi den og den og den. Øhh måske ud af mine 10, så booker vi, starter måske at booke 3 eller 4 og resten dem venter vi så med. Og det samme gør de andre også. Og så. Så på den måde såå, det er sådan det første møde, nogle af de første møder og på den måde så arbejder man sig sådan ligesom ind på programmet løbende. Der kan være nogle ting især med hovednavnene eller de lidt større navne som skal gå ret hurtigt, hvor man, hvor, hvad hedder det, vi bliver nødt, hvor der ligesom kommer en mail, eller en mailing fra Ander som er musikchefen, at vi skal tage stilling til om vi have det her navn, fordi de er ved at vælge periode og vi er nødt til at have en afklaring omkring det lige nu. Og så foregår det måske over e-mail. Så er det meget sådan noget, Anders melder ud: Denne her den skulle spille til sommer, øøh, Coldplay? Vil vi gå efter det? Så melder folk tilbage: Ejj det er ikke lige den vi skal gå efter, jeg synes de har bevæget sig i en meget forkert retning, eller vil vi virkelig bruge så mange penge på den, i forhold til hvad vi eller skal, og sådan noget ikke. A: Og hvad så senere til helt efter Jul-agtigt?

B: Så når vi kommer frem til, måske Februar. Ej måske før Januar måned, så begynder vi ligesom at, der har vi måske booket en 30-40 navne og sådan noget. Så har vi sådan et genre-skema som vi lægger det ind i, som er meget sådan et groft genre-skema, hvor der er 8 genreopdelinger, hvor vi ligesom begynder at plotte dem ind på. Og det er i virkeligheden ikke fordi vi ligesom har nogle, sådan kvoter vi arbejder efter men det er bare ligesom for at se om programmet sådan skævvrider sig helt vildt. Ligepludselig så har vi booket, øh booket, ja 70 urban soul artister, og så finder vi ud at det var måske ikke lige nu her. Det kan godt være vi skal holde igen på dem og gå efter noget andet, så man ligesom får en, i løbet af de sidste par måneder, en ide om at der ligesom er en god fordeling af hvad der ligesom, at der skal være af sådan noget. Jeg kan ikke engang. Det er en der hedder Headliners som er mere bare for ligesom at have en, altså, dem man booker lidt udenfor kategori, men som bare er sådan af de store navne som er vigtig at have på plakaten og så er noget der hedder sådan, folk.

68 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

C: Er det ikke folk til indie.

B: Ja der er en der hedder folk / singer song-writer, og så er der en der hedder elektronisk og en der hedder world, og en der hedder hip hop / urban, og så er der en der hedder, sådan, rock kalder vi den nu, og en der hedder indie og en der hedder øhh alternativ og så er der en der hedder metal og en der hedder pop. Det er vist de kategorier vi arbejder efter, som jeg husker det.

Øhhh, og så der omkring, når vi kommer sådan ind i starten af det nye år, begynder vi også og diskuterer om der er nogle tendenser som vi ligesom skal ramme. For en 3-4, 2-3 år siden, der var det sådan meget, der var hele den der psyke ting meget oppe, altså sådan noget Australsk psyke, sådan de der Tame Impala og sådan nogle forskellige ting. Øhhh, sådan ligesom begyndte og, der var sådan en tendens til at mange også i Danmark, der sådan ligesom arbejdede i det der psyke univers, så var det måske en genre vi rigtig gerne vi ramme, øhh, og lige nu er der meget sådan, der er den der sådan urban, urban - øhhh - indie ting kørende, som vi sådan prøver at ramme på programmet i år. Øhh, og det er ikke sådan, det behøver ikke være noget man snakker så meget om, men mere man ligesom, der kommer til at være en tendens og så kan det godt være vi snakker om det på et tidspunkt. Hvis der er et eller andet man gerne vil, den der foran, altså for 10 år siden var det den der Brooklyn scene som var mega meget oppe og køre ikke, elle på metal-scenen har det været meget det der, sådan indie-black-metal, med Death Heaven og sådan nogle forskellige ting, som man så prøver at ramme nogle bands som ligesom var en del af det. Den scene.

Øhm, så den måde, jaeh, det er det vi ligesom gør og så udover det så har der også været nogle specialprojekter, hvor Peter kom med Den Sorte Skole for halvandet år siden tror jeg, og sagde de havde den her ide om at de kunne, nej det var faktisk 2 år siden, de kunne virkelig godt tænke sig at lave det her special-show på Orange Scene hvor de ligesom arbejde ud fra det. På det tidspunkt var ligesom kommet så langt i perioden eller processen omkring 2016 festival, at vi var nødt til at sige, at det kunne vi ikke nå til 16, så det ville være en 17 ting hvis det var. Så den gik vi faktisk allerede ind og.. Den har vi haft confirmet i halvandet år eller sådan et eller andet ikke. Så de der drenge har arbejdet på det der show i 100 år altså, øhh så det er sådan et special projekt, som måske kommer ind, hvor vi siger: Der vil vi godt lige bruge noget ekstra tid på, eller det der symfoni-orkester, der skal lave mix-tape f.eks. er også sådan et projekt, der har været igang i lang tid. Øhm eller, nu har jeg, jo så nu har jeg booket sådan en, sådan en finsk duo - øhh - pakke med Atomiküla og, øhh, hvad hedder de øhm, Oranssi Pazuzu og sådan nogle forskellige. Så det var ligesom en ide jeg fik om at det kunne være meget sjovt at lave den der finske pakke, fordi de både, sådan er begge to ret aktuelle, men samtidig også faktisk kommer inde fra det samme sådan kollektiv, så det kunne være meget sjovt at lave sådan en pakke med de 3 bands, som sådan er inde for det samme ikke. Så det var jo sådan et special-projekt. Så mange af de danske navne, når jeg booker dem, så prøver jeg sådan at have fokus på, at der er nogen ting. Det er lidt nederen hvis man bare har en Sort Sol koncert, som bare er en Sort Sol koncert, fordi de spiller 20 eller 25 jobs om sommeren. Og det kan man, det er svært at sige til dem, i må ikke spille alle de der jobs, fordi så skal vi jo bare betale flere millioner kroner for dem, for at man ligesom have dem sådan eksklusivt, så vi forsøger nogle gange at lave, altså sådan et greb på det, som skal være sådan et special show, eller med nogle gæster eller sådan noget. Så Sort Sol har ligesom inviterer nogle, der kommer til at være nogle gæster som ikke spiller på deres andre shows. Og det samme har vi gjort med Emil Stabil, det bliver fuldstændig knaldet, altså der kommer også til at være alle mulige, der kommer Tommy Cash og Lily Kleine og alle mulige knald på hans show, og sådan. Så mange af de danske ville rigtig gerne lave noget, noget, noget specielt og det sådan opfordrer vi dem også til, for ligesom og have en vinkel på det der gør at det bliver lidt unikt uden at det skal være sådan gak og gøgl uden at det giver mening. A: Så det prøver i nærmest og gøre mere end at lave de her klausuler om at de ikke må spille i Danmark?

B: Jaahhh, nogen gør vi og nogen gør vi ikke. Altå Trentemøller f.eks. blev vi sådan ret hurtigt enige om, og det var han også sådan, vi synes ikke han skulle spille vildt meget. Så det er sådan noget med at han har spillet i Herning og så har han spillet i, jeg tror han har spillet i 3 shows, men rigtig sådan festivalsshow, hvor vi er det eneste sådan rigtige festivalsshow. Og så spiller han på Musik I Lejet, og der er vi sådan lidt, når det er efter, så er det lidt ligemeget. Men sådan op til, der er vi sådan, at det kunne være fedt at det var en af de første shows han spiller, store shows i Danmark, det er på festival. Så det, det gør vi med nogen altså...

A: Hvordan, hvordan laver i den vurdering der? Er det meget personligt?

B: Det er noget, nej, det er også meget med hvor store de er. Det er også noget med hvad der kan lade sig gøre. Det er jo klart at der der nogen som bare, det er også vildt ærgeligt at skulle holde Rumor Said Fire f.eks. og sige i må ikke spille, for det er også der de tjener deres penge, så det er klart, dem vil vi ikke gøre det med. Men sådan en som Trentemøller som alligevel måske ikke har sådan, sådan ideen om at han gad og spille 12 shows, så er det meget federe at sige, jamen så spiller de bare det her ene show. Så giver vi lidt ekstra for det, men til gengæld så er vi også sikker på at vi så er den, de eneste der får det her sommer-show, ikke. Vi gjorde det også me MØ sidste år altså. Det var det eneste festival hun så spillede sidste år. Nærmest det eneste show hun lavede udover at hun lavede Forum, gjorde hun ikke det? Det gjorde hun så efter Roskilde.

A: Okay, så. Det lyder som om at der en, altså sådan en respekt overfor de bands som i gerne vil have til, eller at i tænker på bandsne. Så hvis det er de store der kan tåle det så vil i gerne gøre det og hvis ikke..?

B: Ja nogengange. Det er meget individuelt fra orkester, eller fra band til band tror jeg også altså.. Og så er det også noget med at, altså det er jo bare at have en god dialog med dem, fordi tit så med at få Carl Emil, han ringede, eller de skrev selv til os og sagde: Hey, I skal vide at han går ud af Ulige Numre, øhh, men samtidig så relancerer vi ham faktisk som solo-artist med det samme. Kunne det ikke være sjovt, hvis det nu var, at det var det første job eller det første show og måske det eneste show han spiller i 2017 det var nede hos jer. Og så siger

69 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen jeg, jamen det kunne være skide sjovt, altså. Så sagde jeg, kunne det så ikke være fedt at lave de på Arena. Det synes han var en virkelig god ide.

A: Så det var han klar på.

B: Så det var han klar på. Kellermench var det også lidt det samme, fordi de var sådan lidt, de har et år og havde spillet en 3, 4, 5 festivaler, og sådan siger, ahhmeen jeg tror hvis det skal give rigtig god mening for os, så skal det være lidt mere eksklusivt på en eller anden måde. Jamen det havde de også sådan selv overvejet, sådan, og så sagde jeg, hvis vi gør det på denne her måde, så uden vi ved noget, hvordan det kommer til at gå med den der plade, så får i Arena og så laver vi en, altså, et fedt Arena-show til jer, som i kan.. Det var de så med på og så droppede de at spille de der andre festivaler.

A: Okay, men det var en god outline og de kom ind på meget af det ville spørge om, men lad os lige uddybe i noget af det. Øhh, der var noget af det her med..

B: Kan i se, hvis jeg skulle sige det her på engelsk, det ville bare tage for lang tid.

A: Ja det er godt at vi køre dansk, øhhm... Det her med at forudsige trends og efterspørgsel, det snakker vi meget om på vores studie, at det er noget af det svære.

B: Skide svært.

A: Ja, så du siger, at i, i både læser blogs og i bruger hele denne her periode i starten på at se koncerter og researche. Øhm, hvordan prøver man at forudse noget, som selvom i så stopper denne her process i Oktober, så er der jo stadigvæk et halvt år til plus at det skal ære også være andre end jer i skal repræsenterer. Øhm altså i har en smag som i går ud og prøver..

B: Nej vi har ikke smag. Det er ret vigtigt.

A: Ja, at i går ud og skal repræsenterer en...

B: Ja det er faktisk vildt vigtigt at man ikke har en smag, altså, altså jeg har en ide om at, altså, der hvor min egen ting går ind det er mere det der med at, er de fede live. Altså spiller de fedt, det er der hvor jeg kan give min egen smag. Men jeg har ikke sådan, at jeg, vi booker aldrig efter vores egen smag. Det gør vi ikke altså. Det forsøger vi i hvert fald ikke at gøre. Det er klar, der er nogengange så er der nogle kunstnere hvor man siger, dem her har jeg været fans af i 100 år så der er jeg lidt biased. Så det siger man så til gruppen. Så hvis det var mig, så ville de spille hele tiden, så deeeeet, så vælger jeg ligesom at holde igen og så sige, hvad synes i andre, først, før vi ligesom vælger et eller andet. Og så prøve også at være sådan, se det lidt udefra, selvom det er dit yndlingsband så er det måske 3 plader siden de var rigtig rigtig fede, så vi bliver nok nødt til at høre den nye plade før jeg kan sige at jeg synes det er en rigtig fed ide at vi gør det. Så det, det er faktisk, det er faktisk noget af det allervigtigste, det er at man kan lægge sin egen smag. Det er et arbejde og det er ikke en øhhh. Det er det ikke. Så det er noget med ligesom at gennemskue hvad der er fedt og hvorfor det er fedt, og så hører det, forsøge at prøve at høre det live og det er jo klart at man kan ikke se alting live. Der er nogen bands, altså, hvor man ikke, så må man ligesom, så læser man anmeldelser, eller også så nogengange så sender vi også folk til at se det. Hvis man kender nogen der bor et eller andet sted iden by de spiller, eller, hey kan du ikke lige gå ud og tjekke det her band ud forde de.. Også især med de der når vi snakker helt små bands som Rising artisterne og, og sådan noget, fordi der kan man bare ikke nå at se det hele. Man har ikke så mange anmeldelser man kan tage fat i eller et eller andet. Så er det bare sådan, så bliver man nødt til at have nogen der kan gå ud og tjekke det der band ud, hvis man alligevel ved at de er ude og se det. Fordi eller så skulle man ikke bestille andet end at gå til koncert i København, altså.

A: Øhm, har i mange eksterne, i spørger om det her, eller er det mest jer der laver vurderingerne?

B: Altså, vi har, "mange", det er jo svært, men vi har nogen.

A: Ja okay, og det er enkeltpersoner?

B: F.eks. jeg har et metal-netværk som jeg arbejder sammen med. Og det er mere, det er ligeså meget fordi, det er nogen skribenter og nogen der arbejder, har arbejdet på pladeselskaber, og det er også en af mine gode venner, som der ved rigtig meget om det som jeg jo ligesom. Og så prøver man lidt at ryste posen med den der gruppe engang imellem, så der er sådan en 5, 6, 7, stykker som jeg ligesom kan sende lidt i byen. Fordi jeg ved de er ude og se de der koncerter og, så jeg ikke behøver hver gang at skulle bruge 3 dage om ugen på at tage til metalkoncerter, fordi der er bares så meget af det. Så de er meget gode til sådan at gå ud og vurdere og vælge noget ud, og så med baggrund i hvad jeg selv synes, øhh, og så snakker jeg med resten af gruppen, så både Klas og Thomas ved en, eller Klas og Anders ved en

70 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen del om metal også. Så dem sparer jeg sådan med i den der proces. Men det er mig der ligesom har sidste saying på hvad det er vi ligesom går efter.

A: Okay, bytter i nogensinde genre, eller har du altid været metal?

B: Det har jeg bare altid haft, men der kan man sige, det kommer også ud fra en interesse eller.. Da jeg blev ansat, der sagde Rikke, som var musikchef, sagde: Vil du have hiphop eller vil du have metal. Så sagde jeg at jeg vil klart helst have metal (hahaha). Fordi altså jeg var bare ikke, altså hiphop var bare ikke lige mig, men jeg ved noget om det og sætter mig ind i det og har sådan en generel viden om det og.. Og hører meget, fordi jeg så sidder sammen Thomas, som. Så vi spiller rigtig meget musik for hinanden, så det er også. Så det er jo et arbejde som også går ud over ens egen interesse på den måde.

A: Ja, okay. Øhm. Og så var der det her. Det økonomiske aspekt. Det lød som om at i starten, der er det der fylder lidt. Med de store bands, som om det kom først.

B: Jaah men det gør det også, fordi det er nogle store poster. Det er klart at hvis du skal give x antal millioner dollars for et eller andet, øhhh, så er det jo klart når du har 60 millioner til at booke musik for, så er det alligevel nogen store poster i dit budget. Og det er ligesom, det er bare vigtigt at få dem på plads på en eller anden måde, så de ligesom ved hvad du har bagefter til at gå ud fra.

A: Så det virker som om, det kommer lige først indtil de er på plads.

B: Altså, det er bare også mest logisk det er dem, fordi det er de store bands som har nogle store produktioner og et stort netværk og et stort apparat, og det er altid dem der melder først ud. Altså det er klart at, altså Emil Stabil, hvis han skulle spille i 2018 og han så siger: Hey, må jeg spille i 2018 nu. Så ville vi sige, jahh men skal vi ikke lige vente og se. Men med med Foo Fighters er det sådan lidt nemmere at stilling til det fordi, det ligesom har en, man ved det er sådan et band der ville sælge mellem 16 og 40.000 billetter i, i Skandinavien ikke. Altså, hvis de spillede i Danmark ville de enten skulle spille Arenaen altså Royal Arena, eller så skulle de måske op og spille Parken. Så dem kan man bedre tage stilling til på det tidspunkt, altså, fordi man er ikke så afhængig af, hvad kommer der til at ske med det. Øhmm skal jeg komme med et godt eksempel. Øhhh. Future Islands for eksempel. De ville også gerne for lang tid siden, hvor vi var nødt til at sige, vi bliver nødt til lige at vente lidt, vi bliver nødt til lige at have en ide om, at høre pladen eller få noget af vide om hvad det er der ligesom sker. Men vi bookede dem klart før pladen kom, så vi ved jo ikke om pladen, den bliver pisse fed eller om folk stadigvæk synes at Future Islands er mege fede eller om de ikke synes de var fede. Men samtidig så tror jeg også at der er en, en, vi kan være med til ligesom at præge dem. Vi kan mærke på pladeselskaberne, at det at vi booker dem, kan godt være med til ligesom at booste historien om Future Islands og det gør at de sælger flere plader i Danmark faktisk. At man, at man, at det bliver bygget op om at der er den her historie omkring dem.

A: Øhm, men efter de her store navne er booket er der så nogensinde hvor...

B: Eller man har et bud på dem. Det er ikke sikkert de bliver booket. Det kan tage sindsyg langt til. Der er nogen navne man kan bruge et år på at booke, altså, og så siger de nej alligevel.

A: Men efter det, øhh, fylder budgettet så noget i jeres, fylder det meget i jeres planlægning eller er det det kreative først. Det sådan ligesom, vi vil gerne have de her og så tager vi det med pengene senere.

B: Ahh, men man kan sige vi ved, vi har en ide om forskellige lag, niveauer, hvor meget bands som spiller Pavillon de ligesom skal ha og hvor meget bands der spiller på Avalon og hvor meget, så vi kan sige at budgetmæssigt, så ligger der inde i vores, vi har sådan et budget- skema hvor, der er alle, alle slots har ligesom et budget eller et beløb på. Og så er det ligesom det der bliver taget udgangspunkt i. Om det så er 6000 dollars eller 6000 euro for denne her slot. Så kan det godt være bandne vil have 7 et halvt og så må man vurdere om det, vil vi gå op til 7 et halvt på den, og nogle gange kan man få den til 5 og så har man sparet noget, men vi prøver ligesom at holde os indenfor de der budgetter på den måde. Der er nogen hvor man siger, det kan godt betale sig at bruge 10.000 euro på dem, fordi så flyver de ind og så spiller de det eneste job i Danmark, eller i Europa eller et eller andet.

A: Så der er altså nogle skabeloner i ligesom prøver at lægge det...

B: Ja der er nogle budgetskabeloner vi arbejder udfra, fordi ellers så kunne man jo bare begynde at booke helt fra toppen og så ville man pludselig ende i en eller anden situation, hvor man måske manglede 50 bands og så har man brugt alle pengene. Så er man nødt til, altså fordi. I en regn af guld vil de fleste bands sige ja ikke, men det gælder også ligesom om at have en forhandling, hvor, hvor man kan mærke at de bliver tilfredse og vi kan ligesom stå indenfor det rent økonomisk.

A: Ja fordi i har jo også noget at byde på for dem.

71 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

B: Ja altså i hvert fald nogle tilfælde har vi. Der er også andre. Der er nogen der bare, alstå, der er mange af de der hiphop-artister de aner jo ikke om de fucking er i Portugal eller om de er i Danmark, det jo, altså der er det bare sådan... Men der er andre hvor man kan mærke at det betyder noget.

C: Muse

B: Muse?

C: De blev altid virkelig glade.

B: Ja, de ville gerne spille.

A: Men øhm, så siger du det her med kvoter. I har ligesom de her genre, men i skal bare sikre jer at alle er lidt passede, men hvad med, hvad med kvoter i forhold til mainstream og eksperimenterende musik, hvor i prøver, Roskilde er lidt kendt for at have nogle lidt eksperimenterende nye kunstnere?

B: Ja altså, vi skal nogengange holde lidt igen. Vi har svært, vi har sværere ved at booke mainstream end vi har ved booke de mærkelige lidt skæve. Vi er ikke, fordi vi som gruppe har altså. Det der, altså mainstream interesserer os ikke specielt meget. Øhh, altså der er vi nok lidt bare for meget musiknørder til det. Men det er også et vigtigt element. Vi har faktisk lige haft, vi har haft sådan en strategiweekend, hvor vi har snakket om det her med, dækker vi popmusikken godt nok på Roskilde Festival og har vi forpligtigelse til at skulle dække popmusik. Og det er jo en lang diskussion, det er ikke fordi vi har sådan konklusion på det, men sådan en diskussion kan vi godt ha. Skal vi ha noget mere pop, fordi det er bare..

C: Altså mere top 100 musik, eller hvordan?

B: Altså bare sådan, jamen jaer, altså Katy Perry, bla bla.

C: Justin Bieber.

B: Jah. Vi er i virkeligeheden også, det kunne man også godt diskutere, om vi skal være sådan en festival. Om det er det vi ligesom skal gå efter eller. Og det. Jeg tror det er meget sundt at have de der diskussioner omkring det. De der om man skal ændre på sammensætningen af musikken, men man kan sige at vi vil gerne have at når man tager på Roskilde, at man ligesom har den der med nogle store navne, som man enten kender eller som kan samle rigtig mange mennesker og man kan stå foran Orange og ha den der oplevelse af at være, ha det der fællesskab. Men samtidig så kan man gå et eller andet sted hen og se et eller andet Koreansk strubetrommeorkester som Peter har fundet på en rejse til Korea eller sådan et eller andet ikke. Altså det hvor man sådan, noget man, hvis det spillede i København ville man aldrig gå ind og se det, men fordi man er på Roskilde og kommer forbi Gloriascenen og kl er 2, og man har lige fået de der 2 fadøl, så synes man det er det fedeste i hele verden. Det kan jeg i hvert fald huske at dengang jeg selv var sådan publikummer, at det var altid de der oplevelser af sådan at blive over, over-vældet eller overrumplet af et eller andet, eller sådan taget med bukserne nede - agtigt, som var det man tog med fra festivalen bagefter. Jeg prøvede også i de der år, hvor jeg startede med at være på festival, så tog man også på Skanderborg og man tog på Midtfynsfestival, og det var også fedt, men det var også mere sådan sikkert på en eller anden måde. Fordi der vidste man ligesom hvad det var der kom. Den, det der med ligesom at gå på Roskilde og blive slået ihjel af Iransk punk, eller sådan et eller andet blodigt. Det er jo det fedeste i hele verden. Og det, den, den følelse gør vi rigtig meget ud af stadivæk at have.

A: Er i med til at definere det her som bookinggruppe, altså, når du siger i sidder og diskuterer, hvor meget i vil have i hver ende af skalaen ligesom. Øhm eller er der en eller anden Roskilde-instans, der skal, der definerer en identitet og så skal i prøve at booke efter den.

B: Nej. I musikgruppen laver vi, det er os der ligesom skaber identiteten eller vi laver en, vi har en strategi for hvordan vi gør det. Den er skrevet ned, som vi så fortæller til bestyrelsen og til, det er ligesom, det er det vi gerne vil med Roskilde Festival. Det legende nye eksperimenterende, overraskende, altså. Det er sådan vigtige elementer i det vi laver. Og det er skrevet ned, den strategi. Så det ved jeg ikke om du kan få af Ander.

C: Ja, jeg kan spørge ham.

A: Okay men der er givet rimelig frihed til jer og så skal i bare have de ligesom tjekket oppe i bestyrelsen.

B: Ah, vi skal ikke ha det tjekket ej, det er sådan noget vi snakker, så har vi skrevet det ned og så kigger vi på den engang imellem, hvertandet år eller et eller andet. Hvis der er nogle ændringer, så foreslår vi nogle ændringer i forhold til bestyrelsen til dem og siger. Men neeej. Det er ikke, øhhh, nej der ikke sådan en, nej det er der ikke.

72 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: Øhm.

C: Men har i også strategier fra år til år bærende på denne her overordnede.

B: Vi har denne her overordnede og den tager vi så udgangspunkt i, men strategien fra år til år er mere om der er nogle tendenser vi skal ramme.

C: Som grime, eller som et eller andet andet.

B: Ja, det lyder. Ja øhm. Country / singer songwriter. Øh. Piger der spiller guitar, eller du ved. Et eller andet.

A: Øhm.

C: Trommeslager der synger

B: Trommeslager der synger.

C: He, det var sidste år.

B: Ja.

A: Så var der, hvis går lidt, øhh, udenfor Roskilde. Konkurrencen. Både i Danmark og internationalt. Hvor meget øh når i skal booke, hvor meget mærker i konkurrencen og er det noget der hjælper eller er det noget hvor i simpelthen kæmper om kunstnere.

B: Øhm. Man kan sige på headlinerne kan vi nogengange mærke det. Det er klart at der er nogen artister som de fleste festivaller i Danmark er interesserede i, men vores konkurrenter er måske til dels i Danmark men faktisk ligeså meget i udlandet. Altså det er mange gange de der lidt større udenlandske festivaller, fordi det er tit med store store navne handler om perioder, hvornår kommer de, hvem kan. Altså ligger der rigtig mange bud i, øhh, Maj / Juni så vælger de ligesom den periode, eller ligger der rigtig rigtig mange bud i August perioden så vælger de ligesom den periode. Øhh. Chance the Rapper f.eks. ville vi gerne have haft på festivalen, men han valgte så at spille i sin august periode. Nu har han så aflyst, så det var fuldstændig, det var heldigt vi ikke fik ham. Men altså, det var sådan et godt eksempel på, man kan sige, ham ville vi godt have haft på Roskilde men han vælger ligesom at spille i en periode som ligger ved siden af os. I den periode ligger Readding og Leeds festival og der ligger Way Out West og Oya festival og, så det. Så det er ligesom. Så man kan sige på hovednavne, headlinerniveauet, der kan man nogengange godt mærke det. Og det er klart at priserne bliver også pumpet op på headliners i takt med der kommer flere festivaler, der er interesserede i headliners af en vis kaliber, men stadigvæk har vi en størrelse, hvor der er få navne der nogengange kan være med. Altså da vi booker Rolling Stones er der ikke nogen andre festivaler der booker Rolling Stones i Danmark, fordi det er de ikke, det kommer de ikke i nærheden af, men hvis vi snakker FKA Twix eller Prodigy, eller sådan et eller andet, så er det klart, at så er det, så er der flere der gerne vil være interesserede i det og så er der lidt mere konkurrence. Man kan faktisk så er der mere konkurrence på vores Arena-niveau-navne end der er på hovednavnene, nogengange. Fordi et Arenahovednavn hos os måske er et hoved hoved navn på en anden festival.

A: Ja, men hvad så med de internationale. Glastonbury og Sziget.

B: Ja, altså Glastonbury ligger faktisk okay for os, fordi den ligger faktisk forholdsvis tæt på, så tit ikke hvis de ligger og spiller Glastonbury, så ville vi være, ha mulighed for ligesom og være inde i denne periode også fordi det er så tæt på.

A: Og så hjælper det jo på en måde lidt.

B: Ja så nogengange kan det hjælpe.

A: Ja så passer det i hans program.

C: Men, snakker i med de andre festivaler. Altså, ville du skulle snakke med bookerne fra Glastonbury. Hej jeg har tænkt mig det og...

A: Eeej, det, nej ikke specielt meget ned. Der er i nogen tilfælde, hvor jeg har snakket med nogle enkelte udenlandske festivaler, som ligger i, tæt på os, men det er meget sjældent.

C: Men hvordan finder du så ud af om de ligesom spiller..

73 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

A: Men det er fordi det siger agenten tit.

C: Så siger siger agenten, okay men vi spiller alligevel her.

B: Ej men det er egentlig også fordi, vi har også et bud indenfor denne periode. Og hvis det er den periode så kan man jo kigge på hvad det er for nogle festivaler. Så tit det der med, også når man bliver sammenlignet med Tinderbox og Northside eller Skanderborg, så er det også, altså. I vores egen optik er vi, ser vi det ikke som sådan kæmpe kæmpe konkurrenter, fordi der er også stor forskel på, vi sælger over dobbelt så mange billetter som Northside. Smukfest eller sådan et eller andet. Så det er bare sådan nogle andre slags festivaler. Men det er klart at der er nogen tendenser til at, at, at der er nogen af festivalerne som også fors.. Radiohead er jo. Det, altså. De kunne jo ligeså godt have spillet for os, men spiller vist Northside. Så det nogengange, det jo meget forskelligt. Men det er klart at i nogen tilfælde men især med hovednavnene, så, så er der, så kan der godt være lidt kamp om det.

A: Okay, kan i mærke at det har ændret sig på de seneste 15 / 10 år?

B: Altså i virkeligheden, så da Tinderbox kom troede vi at det ville blive en udfordring, men det har vist sig at det faktisk ikke har været. Det synes jeg ikke. Altså jeg synes at vi, altså vi kigger på vores program i år, så har vi faktisk fået alt det vi gerne ville. Der er nogle få navne hvor man tænker, altså Chance ville vi jo måske godt have haft. Eller også så er der sådan nogle ting hvor vi ved vi ikke kan lande det, Beyonce ville vi gerne have haft. Alle vil jo gerne have at den dag Daft Punk bestemmer sig for at tage ud at spille, vil jo rigtig gerne, altså eller Eminem eller.

C: Der bliver kamp om budet.

B: Ja, men det er sådan. Eller det ved jeg ikke for jeg ved ikke om Beyonce ville. Eller det ved jeg ikke.

C: Nu er hun jo også gravid.

B: Nu er hun jo gravid, så det ville være fint at vi ikke... Men det er mere sådan. Så er det nogle andre ting der ligesom spiller ind på det. End det er, altså, ja. Jeg synes i forhold til hva, hvis man kigger på hvad vi har forsøgt at få, så har i år faktisk været et af de bedste år, fordi vi har næsten.. Altså med 90 % eller 95 % af det vi har lagt bud på har vi fået det vi gerne ville ha. Så på den måde er vi egentlig meget tilfredse i år. Men sidste år var der nogen, der var det måske kun 80 %, hvor der var, de sidste 20 % var lidt ærgelig at vi ikke fik det eller et eller andet. Men det er ligeså meget, det, det behøver ikke være penge, det er ligeså meget periode. Det er også Amerikanske festivaler. Det lige pludselig er mere attraktivt for Amerikanske artister at blive i USA fordi der er mange penge i det eller fordi det er skidedyrt at lave en tour i Europa ikke. Så der er mange ting der spiller ind.

A: Der var lige en ting mere..

B: F.eks. Tribe Called Quest brugte vi sindsyg meget tid og energi på, fordi de spiller meget meget få shows. De spiller jo kun... Jeg tror de spiller en 5, 8 europæiske shows, som ligger sådan meget, det samme med Solange faktisk også. Hun flyver ind for det meste, fordi det er sådan meget sporadisk, hvor hun skal spille. Men så, så de vælger at spille Roskilde fordi de virkelig gerne vil spille Roskilde. Så det, så nogen gange. Altså. Så nogen gange hænger det sammen med en tour, og nogen gange hænger det også sammen med at de gerne vil. C: Men kan du så mærke der at sådan eh, f.eks. med Solange og Tribe, kan du så mærke at Roskilde ligesom har en større tiltrækningskraft end andre.

B: Ja.

C: Hvorfor tror du det?

B: Fordi vi er en stor festival og vi har en, altså, en lang historik. Og så fordi at, og det kan man altid sidde og sige når man er en del af det, men min fornemmelse er at vores publikum er meget anderledes end det er på mange andre festivaler. Både fordi folk bor dernede i en uge og der sammen. Det er et lidt yngre publikum end nogen af de andre festivaler og øhh. Vi får tit tilbagemeldinger fra artister som siger at det var det bedste job på touren fordi folk er mega meget på, når de er på Roskilde, så. Vi har bare et, vi har et godt ry i udlandet tror jeg. Som festival. Og det er jo også, og så, altså, også hos agenterne. Og så tror jeg også at det spiller ind at, jeg tror også at pladeselskaberne kan mærke at det, at vi kan være med til at flytte noget. Nu er det ikke sindsygt meget, fordi Danmark er et lille land, men jeg tror bare i forhold til... Altså der er bare forskel på om man spiller Roskilde Festival eller om man spiller musik i lejet.

C: Mhmm, Father John Misty.

74 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

B: Father John Misty f.eks. ikke. Han spillede det første job og så bagefter så lavede han 3, 4 store VEGA shows ikke. Det er jo kæmpe stort. Whitney!

C: Og Falkoner.

A: Der er lige en ting man kan se vi er hoppet over, som du har snakket lidt om. Det her med netværk og sådan noget. Hvor meget fylder det i først og beslutte sig for bands og så også booke dem og hvor meget kan du bare ringe op uden at kende denne her agent?

B: Øhhh. Altså, altså det. Du tænker på hvor meget jeg bruger netværket.

A: Ja præcis. I, både i at lave research men også når der skal bookes.

B: Altså i øhh, i forhold til bookingen bruger jeg ikke netværket på den måde for der er det bare. Man kan altid finde ud af hvem agenten er på bandet. Det er sådan, det står bare på deres Facebook tit ikke. Men jeg bruger netværk rigtig meget til sådan ligesom at, hvis man skal guides i et eller andet, eller hvis der er noget man er i tvivl om eller, hvis der er noget man ikke rigtigt kan mærke. Et eller andet band man er meget i tvivl om fordi at man, man var lidt en anden retning fordi den koncert jeg så sidst var ikke så fed, men du sagde sidst at det var sindsygt godt. Hvad er det ligesom, hvad sker der med dem, eller. Har du hørt at pladen, når den at komme inden Jul eller inden sommeren eller. Så på den måde kan jeg godt ringe op og bruge mit netværk på den måde, eller jeg har det der band nede på Stengade, som jeg simpelthen ikke kan nå ned at se, har du mulighed for at tage ud og kigge. Så, så på den måde bruger man netværket, altså. Og nogengange så skriver de jo også selv. Prøv lige at holde øje dem her, eller kender du dem her, fordi det var super fedt, eller de varmede op for et eller andet.

A: Okay, så det fylder mest der i researchfasen.

B: Ja.

A: Der er det, okay.

B: Og så skal man huske, det er jo ikke fordi det sådan er eviggyldigt det vi laver, fordi, og så er alt andet noget lorte-musk. Det er jo bare, vi vælger jo bare noget ud af alt muligt, så hver eneste gang man siger ja til Rumour Said Fire har man sagt nej til 20 andre Danske bands. Og det er jo ikke, det er jo også ligeså fedt. Og det har de nogengange også lidt svært ved at forstå. Hvorfor skal vi ikke spille i år? Vi har lavet denne her plade, og.. Det er rigtigt det kunne i også godt, men vi har mange.. Der er ikke plads til det hele jo.

C: Men hvordan sætter i jer ned og sådan.. Jeg kan huske at du fortalte mig på et tidspunkt, hvor der var to bands der var meget ens, sang på dansk, og havde samme genre, havde samme sange sådan presence på scenen. Hvordan vælger man den ene over den anden? Er det så i musikgruppen?

B: Jamen så snakker vi meget i musikgruppen.

C: Laver i så en afstemning eller hvad fanden gør man?

B: Ejjj, men man kan godt være uenige og så bliver det ikke til noget. Og så kan man sige ej det forstår jeg ikke, det synes jeg vi skal vente med.

C: Og så finder man den tredje. B: Altså der er jo nogen bands, hvor man siger, jeg ville gerne booke dem nu og så siger musikgruppen, ej det synes jeg vi er nødt til at vente og se hvad der sker med den der plade, altså sidst var det bare noget lort, hvorfor skal vi gøre det, og så kan man have en lang diskussion om det og så bliver man, i stedet for at det bliver til noget, så kan det være at man så lægger det ned eller. Og så kan det være der går 3 måneder og så synes alle at det er en pisse god ide, altså fordi der så er sket et eller andet, eller alle har fået lov til at få set det. MØ er jo sådan en hvor vi så hende sindsyg mange gange, men der var hun bare ikke særlige fed. Altså hun var virkelig ikke, hun havde bare ikke styr på det der live show og vidste ikke hvad hun skulle og sådan. Vi så en masse af sådan nogle showcases hvor det bare overhoved ikke fungerede for hende.

C: Men hvorfor besluttede i jer så for at booke hende?

B: Jamen så så jeg hende, så så mig og Thomas tror jeg hende på Bylarm, hvor det var ligesom om at der har hun også spillet en masse jobs. Og der var det ligesom om der var sket et eller andet. Hun havde ligesom fundet ud hvad det var hun ville eller hvad hun skulle med det. Og det var sådan okay, nu kunne det være meget fedt at gøre det ikke. Der er også nogen man venter og siger, det skal bare ikke være i

75 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

år, de er bare klar til at blive booket i år, altså. Fordi de ikke er fede nok live, eller et eller andet, og så kan der godt gå et år og så synes man at de er mega fede året efter. Det kan man godt gøre.

C: Men i forhold til sådan, altså, når der kommer. Hvis nu vi siger der er en eller anden Dansk agent som kommer med et bud til dig, og som, hej, og i har arbejdet sammen før, jeg har de her 3 eller 4 navne, vil du så føle at du var sådan, at du måske har en større tendens til at booke dem fordi at de er der, eller ville du så hellere være sådan, eej okay jeg ved at de findes, men jeg prøver lige at se om jeg kan søge ukendt.

B: Ej. Nej. Men det gode ved det er jo altid at jeg kan altid lægge mig ind og sige at det er jo ikke. Det er jo ikke mig der bestemmer. Det er jo musikgruppen der bestemmer. Jeg kan være med til at komme med en ide om det, det er også derfor jeg kan godt sidde med nogle bands og sige jeg synes vi skal booke dem, men hvis resten af musikgruppen siger, det forstår jeg simpelthen ikke, det gider jeg ikke, det er ikke øh, det er et lorteband eller hvorfor skal vi gøre det eller, så må jeg bare sige til agenten at det, det øh, jeg synes at det var en pisse god ide, jeg kan godt se det, men resten af musikgruppen synes ikke det er en særlig god ide, så vi kommer ikke til at gøre det i år. Det kan jo godt, det kan man jo godt.

A: Og alle de her beslutninger, når i beslutter det her i musikgruppen eller når de gør, det er meget, eller det lyder til at være meget mavefornemmelser og erfaring i sidste ende?

B: Jo men det er, det er meget med argum... Man skal bruge sindsyg meget tid på at argumenterer for det. Hvorfor vil du booke det her band i stedet for det andet band, altså. Hvorfor vælger du og booke, øhhh, hvad hedder det, Emil Stabil i stedet for Alex Dragich, jamen så kan, der er jo så tusinde grunde til det ikke, men altså, så skal man virkelig have sine argumenter på plads og kunne forklare hvorfor man har set det eller.

A: Ja og der kommer det så udover mavefornemmelsen. Der skal du havde nogen lidt rationelle..

B: Ja, ja så det er jo sådan en kombination mellem noget mavefornemmelse og noget ja, rationel diskussions-klub. På den måde er det sådan lidt. På den måde kan man godt mærke at vi kommer ud af sådan en, både sådan en frivillighedskultur men også.. Altså festivalen er jo opstået i sådan hippietiden ikke, hvor det var meget de der diskussionsklubber, hvor man ligesom sad og snakkede om det. Og det, deeet, det er også derfor det er lidt vigtigt at musikgruppen har en vis størrelse hele tiden, fordi hvis man er for få, så kan man lidt gå hen og blive sådan lidt nogle enerådige konger der sidder og bestemmer det hele, fordi man overhoved ikke kan blive enige om et eller andet, ja så det er rigtigt vigtigt at man har, er sådan en 5, 6, 7, 8 stykker i gruppen, så man kan få de der diskussioner. Men så er det klart at når Peter kommer og siger at han har set det der Koreankse strubetrommeorkester og jeg jo ikke har nogen som helst mulighed for ligesom at argumenterer imod det, fordi jeg ikke ved altså.

C: Noget om hele det, hele det område.

B: Ja, så bliver det jo noget med ligesom at høre på ham. Så er det jo klart at, så, så stoler de andre jo også ligesom på at det han kommer med har en kvalitet, eller han har ligesom, lige vide hvem Peter han er og hvad han normalt kommer med ting og sager, ikke.

C: Okay, så man kan også godt, altså, nu er Peter jo også lidt speciel, fordi der er ikke rigtig andre.

B: Nej, det er svært.

C: Han har booket, og han har booket global musik i, det ved jeg ikke, forever.

B: Peter, han er en levende legende på den europæiske scene, det kan jeg godt fortælle dig.

C: Han er, han ved rigtig meget om at møde sådan nogen som ikke så mange andre møder.

B: Altså alt det der world og sådan.

C: Altså, så måske så i hans, især i hans område, der kan han måske være mere sådan, ej prøv at hør.

B: Men jeg tror at Peter, hvis man ser på Peter så har han jo, han har haft indflydelse på, hvilke af de der world-orkestre der har slået igennem i Europa, altså, det er Peter der fandt Tina Riven og det er Peter der har fundet Tommy Krist. Det er ham der lavede det første job i Europa og være med til at sørge for at finde dem, og hive dem op fra Mali, det er Peter der har lavet det. Så på den måde, øh, så nogen af dem der som lige pludselig spiller store Vega og alle mulig andre steder, det er Peter der var første mand på det for 15 år siden. Så han er bare, altså, han er simpelthen så vild. Men det er jo klart at ham, ham øhm.. Der er nogen sangere hvor man ikke ved nok om det til at man, så bliver man nødt til ligesom at høre på hvad han siger, og det er også der man siger, ved du hvad, det bliver vi nødt til lige at vente på, det

76 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen er vi nødt til, jeg skal høre noget mere, eller et eller andet. Eller har vi ikke, det kan også være han kommer og så synes man lige pludselig vi har fået 3 salsabands, og siger man, kan vi ikke, skal vi ikke, jeg synes ikke vi skal bruge, nu.. Skal vi ikke vente lidt med det. Altså det er næste orkester eller et eller andet ikke.

C: Har du mere?

A: Næh

C: Jamen tak!

A: Det var fedt! Stærkt!

77 Management of Creative Business Processes The Notion of the Heterotopia Emma Hestbæk Søren Nørby Madsen

ROSKILDE FESTIVAL MAP 2017

78