522 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 Ring, of the Maritime Commission, be­ chusetts [Mr. McCoRMACK] on December HOUSE OF REPRESE.NTATIVES fore the Marine Engineers' Beneficial 27 at Boston. Association. The SPEAKER.· Is there objection to TuESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1941 The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman from Okla- The House met at 12 o'clock noon. the request of the gentleman from New homa? ' The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera Mont­ Jersey? There was no objection. gomery, D. D., offered the following There was no objection. PROMOTION OF THE DEFENSE OF THE UNITED prayer: Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask STATES unanimous consent to extend my own re­ Heavenly Father, today with ThY marks in the Appendix of the RECORD and Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Speaker, I move spirit stir us with the very essence of the include therein a letter from a constituent that the House resolve itself into the laws of justice and the rights of man. So of mine. Committee· of the Whole House on the often the performance of duty is linked The SPEAKER. Is there objection to state of the Union for the further CDn­ with fear and regret. We pray Thee the request of the gentleman from sideration of the bill the times do not warrant it. attention to what happened to the elder air attack on the United States would be I have an idea that I shall touch on La Follette. The people of this country stupid. Why? only briefly, because I appeared before burned him in effigy for voting against I do not agree with some of the things the Committee on Foreign Affairs and going into the World War. Later they Colonel Lindbergh said, but he gave the discussed it thoroughly. If we establish put his statue in the Hall of Fame for right answer to that question. Our naval a fund in the Import-Export Bank, or having done so. and military staffs agree with him on this in the R. F. C., which can be available Mr. BARRY. I thank the gentleman answer and I want to put it the other to the British, I say it behooves us, for inferentially putting me in such dis­ way, nobody disagrees with him because without holding up the program, to get tinguished company. to the layman it is just good common something in return for that money, The CHAIRMAN. The time of the sense. He said, in substance, aviation and to me a very essential thing is the gentleman from New York has expired. has greatly strengthened our Nation for raw materials that we need for our de­ - Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 28 defense and weakened it for attack, be­ fense production. As most of you know, minutes to the gentleman from Michigan cause an invading army and its supplies we are not entirely self-sufficient in raw [Mr. JoNKMAN], a member of the com­ must be transported by sea, while avia­ materials. We get manganese and chro­ mittee. tion makes it more difficult than ever for mium and tin and rubber from the Brit­ Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Chairman, H. R. a navy to approach a hostile shore. ish Empire in great quantities. Suppose 1776, the lend-lease bill, is a measure pro­ Under this theory military experts are this war does not go the way we want it posing the most revolutionary undertak- agreed that we are safe from attack for a 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 529 long time if not for all time, either by ing? Would not this take years and talk about a cns1s or the bolstering of sea or by air, so long as we maintain an would be we sitting idly by while this morale is the merest speculation put in Army, Navy, and air force of reasonable is going on? concrete form for misleading the Ameri­ size and in modern condition, and pro- · This propaganda . of infiltration in can people. What did the Secretary of vided we establish the bases for defense. South America belongs in the same the Navy say when another member of It was this line of reasoning that category as the dangers of direct-attack the committee later examined him? prompted Colonel Lindbergh to say that hysteria of last year. Sure there are MEMBER OF CoMMITTEE. Did I understand in his opinion England and the United "fifth columnists" in South America. you to say that a crisis was expected in Eng­ States together-and mind you this They are in the United States also. One land within the next 60 or 90 days? meant throwing in everything we . have hundred and thirty million people cannot Mr. KNox. Now, that is pure speculation. including our manpower-could not in­ get Harry Bridges out of the United I do not know when a crisis will come. MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. Are you prepared to vade and conquer Germany unless there States. Is anybody creating hysteria state what kind of crisis?· was a collapse from within. However it about that? And yet I want to say that Mr. KNox. The crisis of the defeat of Great must be remembered tha · ~ he said that for Harry Bridges and his kind, who honey­ Britain might be imminent. the same reason, all the totalitarian comb the entire American defense, should MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. You mean through powers together could not invade the cause Americans more worry than the the collapse of morale? United States and if England could be in­ "fifth columnists" in South America. Mr. KNox. No. I think the British morale vaded, it could be done only at the cost of Both are problems, but the former is of is admirable beyond comparison. I think it might come about-and again I am indulg­ s4ch terriffic loss of life and property as far more immediate danger than the ing in pure speculation-it might come about to make it impracticable. · latter. through the greater success of the submarine The soundness of this theory is shown The safety and security of the people campaign, which is. now a combined subma­ when we contemplate that :E.ngland with of the United States lie not in the ob­ rine and air campaign. And it might come a navy second to none, unless it be our jectives of the lend-lease bill but in mak­ about through persistence in these concen­ own, cannot think of iL vading Germany ing the security we now enjoy impreg­ trated bombardments. Both of these cam­ which has practically no navy. And that nable by production and preparation for paigns affect the supplies available for fight­ our own defe-nse, as above outlined. Brit­ ing. Germany with her far superior air-force MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. Do you think that has thus far been unable to invade ain is not our first line of defense, even a military invasion by Germany into England England. though we may be England's last line of is probable? In this respect we may well digress for defense. Mr. KNox. I do not know that my judgment a moment and wonder if aviation, in that We must not be misled by such false is worth any more · than yours about that. it increases a Nation's defensive strength propaganda as infiltration and military We all have our own idea. and correspondingly decre&ses its offen­ attack from South America and similar MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. That WOUld not be, hysteria-creating propaganda. For in­ then, the expected crisis? sive strength, may not yet prove a factor Mr. KNox. It might be. in the ultimate goal of universal peace. stance, the last wave of propaganda was MEMBER OF CoMMITTEE. Do you think that Because after all the greatest preventa­ that a crisis is impending for England the same danger exists in that respect as ex­ tive for a war is sufficient power to dis­ in· 60 or 90 days and we must pass this isted in the months of September and Octo­ courage or stop the aggressor. lend-lease bill immediately without con­ ber 1940? In other words, is it not true that However, in considering where we are sideration in view of this crisis. Of this England has become an armed camp? and having the assurance that we are Secretary of the Navy Knox was probably Mr. KNox. Oh, yes, indeed. I think the the leading exponent. Let us see what difficulties in the way of invading England free from direct attack, we might next are now much greater than they were when consider is there a probability of indirect he said at the committee hearings about France fell, for instance. attack. And we find that the proponents this crisis. I am quoting from the rec­ MEMBER OF CoMMITTEE. Do I understand of this bill have already beat us to it. ord: you to say that the principal effect of this bill When their hysteria-creating danger of Mr. FISH. Mr. Secretary, the Secretary of within the next 6 months would be to bolster direct attack exploded; the war makers War, who just concluded his testimony, made up the morale of the British? the statement that there prob~ly would oe Mr KNox. That is one of the effects, and it resorted to the propaga.-1da of the dan­ a crisis in Great Britain within the next 60 is very important. gers of economic inva_sion of South or 90 days. The Secretary of War and the MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. Are there any other America by the Axis Powers, to be fol­ Secretary of State made similar statements. substantial effects? lowed by the establishment of military Do you agree with that? Mr. KNox. Yes. I think we would prob­ bases and attack on the United States Mr. KNOX. I do. . ably, as we are constantly doing, increase from that direction. Mr. FisH. How would this bill, as far as production and give them the benefit of the Now, how we are going to stop South production is concerned, affect that crisis in increased flow of munitions and supplies. Great Britain within the next 60 or 90 days MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. YOU think that America from trading with Europe, no by the passage of this bill? I would like to would be so material as to be effective within matter which way the war goes, is some­ hear as far as production is concerned. the next 6 months? thing beyond my comprehension. Un­ Mr. KNox. Tremendously; because you do Mr. KNOX . I do. I hope so. fortunately, we cannot use the beef, not fight battles alone with guns and ships. MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. Do you not think wheat, and other agricultural products You fight with men. The spirit of those men it would be more effective if we continue our of South America any more than she can is all-important; the question of morale is present policy-that is, to concentrate en­ use ours. Except for coffee, bananas, an immensely important factor in war; and tirely upon production and preparation for and such articles of commerce, she will the passage of this bill will do more to put our own defense and continue to furnish resolute courage and determination to fight them as we are doing at present? have to find a market other than ours. through in the British Nation than anything Mr. KNox. We cannot continue to do that. Even our Export-Import Bank program we could do. The law provides against it, and provides is entirely untenable, as a permanent Mr. FISH. But it would not put a single that they must pay for the things they get. proposition. It may be axiomatic to say ounce of war material in the hands of Great They do not have enough dollars left to pay so, but we cannot buy those products of Britain within the next 60 or 90 days? for what they have now ordered. You would South America of which we have a con­ Mr. KNox. I am not sure about that. I have to repeal the Johnson Act before you stant surplus and European countries would have to get the details before I could could do that. have a scarcity. answer accurately. Again I say that all this talk about an And then we come to the second ques­ In other words, Members of the Com­ impending crisis in 60 or 90 days, and the tion of how the Axis Powers can build · mittee, Congress is asked to hysterically · merits of this bill to thwart it, is mere military bases of sufficient strength to pass the lend-lease bill, with its immeas­ hysteria-creating propaganda and a dis­ threaten the · United States-not to urable implications, not to get an ounce tinct disservice to the people of the threaten Honduras or Nicaragua or Co­ of war material to Great Britain for the United States. lombia but the United States. Have we impendir:g crisis within 60 or 90 days, but While the situation is still serious, become so frightened and flabby as to just to bolster the morale of the British there is no crisis; and if there was, this fear that Germany could establish an people. Is it not pathetic? In other bill would provide nothing to stop it. auxiliary at a farther distance than she words, what is the issue? Credit, credit, - Lord Halifax just told us that the crisis herself is now to invade and conquer us? and nothing else. was passed last fall; that Hitler has Could they do this or could they keep But, Mr. Chairman, that is not the already lost the war by not invading Eng­ open supply lines for such an undertak- tragedy of it. The tragedy is that all this land last fall. LXXXVII--34 530 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 According to the newspapers, our good through the R. F. C., which I understand In a speech on February 24, 1937, he Secretary of the Navy now has another would not be a violation of either the said: mere speculation, to wit, that Germany Johnson Act or the Neutrality Act, nor If the theory of collective security got us may use poison gas in England this sum­ of international law. into another European war, what should we mer. To know where we are going and to be fighting for? We should be fighting to We are being peppered with this brand grasp somewhat the purpose of the lend­ maintain the anarchy of Europe, which is of propaganda. In October of last year lease bill, we must read it in conjunction Europe's fundamental bane. I read a report that Britain began the with the President's last message on the On April 2, 1936, he said: war with 19,000,000 tons of shipping, and state of the Union. This will tell us I am inclined to think that Europe will that at the time of that report she had where we are going, We are going out to never make peace within herself until we 21,000,000 tons. In other words, the re­ become the ally of any nation in all the leave her to do her own work. .world in the fight for the four freedoms port stated Britain is replacing her ton­ On July 13, 1938, he said: nage much faster than the Axis Powers recited in that speech-freedom of can destroy it. Then, in the latter part of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from Democracy itself will not be able to stand December, wher: this bill was in the mak­ want, and freedom from aggression. Just another World War. To fight it you will as the peacetime powers sought in this have to abandon your parliamentary system, ing, in the office of the Secretary of the and the financial needs could not be met by Treasury, I read a report that Britain bill stagger our minds, so the objective of ordinary democratic methods. had begun the war with 13,000,000 tons of the bill defies our comprehension. And shipping and at that date it had been re­ ·not only that, but if any of these nations Like Jefferson, he believed that policing duced to 11,000,000 tons. In short, it said should be satisfied with a little less-the Europe for"ever was an impossibility. unless the United States immediately American people are way short of this And yet like the proponents of this bill, supplies Britain with cargo ships she ideal-and stop fighting we will go on he was perfectly willing to pass that buck cannot continue the war. I asked Ad­ alone, for this bill will never permit us to the people of the United States. Well, miral Stark to help me get at the facts, to a peace dictated by aggressors and as I said, Lord Lothian was a great Eng­ and he supplied me with a report show­ sponsored by appeasers. lishman-always pulling for the British ing Great Britain began the war with Supposing that, in order to somewhat Empire. Let us all be equally great 17,417,413 tons, and on December 31, understand what we are in for under this Americans always pulling for the great 1940, she had 17,679,388 tons, or a gain bill, we cut this objective to one-fifth and American constitutional Republic. of see what we have to do to establish these Mr. Chairman, we do not know and we 267,000 tons. four freedoms for European nations cannot know where we are going under All this propaganda is, of course, in­ alone. And remember this is only about this bill, and we cannot know what situ­ tended to spur and whip us into going a fourth or fifth of our task. ation we will be in when we get there. somewhere; but before we know where One of the first things we will have to This bill not only undertakes to bring we ar.e going, we, who are safe from at­ do-l say one of the first things-is to order out of chaos in Europe including tack and at peace with the world, are we help England defeat Germany. This, if the Russia, Poland, and Latvia tangle, but going to the defense of the United States, it can be done at all, will involve a tre­ its objective is to set the whole world in for the defense of our people and our free mendous sacrifice of men and money, of order for our own defense and safety. institutions? No, indeed. We have which we will be expected to furnish all As the ·gentleman from New York [Mr. already seen that we can best do this by of the money and most of the men in a FisH] said, this will mean war, bank­ concentrating on making our defenses long and terrific war. We must either ruptcy, dictatorship, and, I may add, in the Western Hemisphere impregnable. be prepared to do this or back up on the failure. Are we going to the defense of England? lend-lease bill. There is no alternative. Mr. Chairman, have we forgotten 1917 Yes; but only incidentally. All England And supposing that the American peo­ and 1918, when we were propagandized needs is credit, and this not until next ple were willing to make this sacrifice­ and goaded into a war to make the world year. She already has orders placed in which the Gallup poll shows they are not safe for democracy. Have we forgotten the amount of one billion three hundred in overwhelnl).ng numbers-then what? that on the altar of that war we offered millions for 1941, plus one hundred and Are we going to force the four freedoms up hundreds of thousands of the flower nineteen millions for 1942. These she on the 26 nations of Europe with muskets of our manhood· and billions of our can pay for, but then her dollar exchange and bayonets? · money? Have we forgotten that when will be exhausted. She will still have Thomas Jefferson said: we sat at the peace table we sought not eighteen billions of stocks and securities, For us to attempt to reform all Europe a dollar of loot or a square foot of terri­ but she cannot turn these into cash; so and bring them back to the principles of tory, but only the peaceful solution we they say. A great many Americans feel morality and a respect for the equal rights are now again asked to solve under this that England should pay for her muni­ of nations would show us to be only maniacs bill? Have we forgotten that we were tions, and when the time comes that she of another character. told we were taking too much credit for cannot pay cash she should put up the the ending of the war, and were asked to above-named securities as collateral. I think Jefferson knew what he was talking about. However, if we think that sit back while the so-called democracies Many others feel that notwithstanding in their selfish greed sowed the seeds of our safety and security from attack, we times have changed, we might learn something from the words of a great the present war? would feel safer and · more secure if Englishman spoken more recently. I Have we forgotten that in 1937 Winston England is not defeated than otherwise, Churchill said: and that even though she has never paid mean none other than Lord Lothian, that our World War loan, we should give her a great Englishman who came here to get America's entrance into the war was dis­ us into the war and died in that heroic astrous not only for your country but for the substantial amount of credit. They feel task. I honor him for it and wish that, Allies as welL Had you stayed at home and that we would probably never get it back. as he was for the British Empire, all of minded your business we would have made But we can afford to consider it as a pay­ the British Empire, and nothing but the peace with the Central Powers in the spring ment to her for our additional future of 1917. Then there would have been no col­ British Empire, every American would, lapse in Russia, followed by communism; no safety if she can thereby avoid defeat. in the words of Daniel Webster, have for In the present situation I would favor break-down in Italy, followed by fascism; and his object our country, the whole of our nazi-ism would not at present be enthroned such aid. But this is not the objective of country, and nothing but our country. in Germany. If America had stayed out and the lend-and-lease bill. It is only an in­ [Applause.] minded her own business, none of these cident of H. R. 1776. Then we would not lend and lease "isms" would be sweeping the country and All attempts to amend the bill by con­ bas.es in the Atlantic, a feat that was breaking parliamentary law. fining the lease-and-lend operation to hailed as a second great Louisiana Pur­ Mr. Chairman, if we cannvt learn from England, or even to England, Greece, and chase. Where would we be today if the history, we should at least learn from our China, met successful opposition. Louisiana Purchase had been a Louisiana own bitter experience. As I have indicated, to aid England lease? I am in sympathy with the English with credit this bill, H. R. 1776, would But what did Lord Lothian say about people. They have been plunged into this be entirely unnecessary, as that could be the feasibility of our objectives under the war as the victims of a leadership simi­ done by a simple bill to grant her credit lend-lease bill? lar to that in this qountry, which, under 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 531 this bill, would precipitate us into Eng­ Mr. ZAIMAN. Is your mail heavy on this resort to war or any form of violence against land's place. question? each other." Less than a year later Denmark We must not follow this leadership. Mr. KOPPLEMANN. Not SO heavy as it has fell to Germany. been on previous issues. The people have And about Norway, Hitler proclaimed that We must not act on sympathy alone. We been prepared for this legislation. The ques­ the "Reich Government notifies the Nor­ must be guided and governed only by tion of our giving increased aid to Britain has wegian Government that she has no inten­ what is conducive to the safety and gen­ been discussed for months. tion now or in the future of infringing upon eral welfare of our people and our Re­ Mr. ZAIMAN. Is your mall for or against it? the territorial integrity or the political inde­ public. I think it is the general sense of Mr. KOPPLEMANN. In the majority against pendence of the Kingdom of Norway." These our people that it is to our interest to it. words were uttered in Berlin on April 9, 1940, prevent the defeat of Britain, but not at Mr. ZAIMAN. Then the people of your dis­ as German Trojan horses were being stabled trict are against it, judging by that. in Norway. the price and cost-of our men. We will Mr. KoPPLEMANN. I don't think so. My Mr. ZAIMAN. If you · don't fear imminent not send men. Again I say we have no experience, and I have had a lot of it, is that· invasion of the United States in the event alternative. Then it follows that all we the opposition is always vocal, but the people that Germany is vic.torious, then why are you can furnish is planes, ammunition, and who are for a thing, particularly when they giving support to the lend-lease bill? Would probably ships to get them there. That know the administration and their rEpre­ it not be better to conserve our resources is all Britain needs to the extent of giving sentatives are for it, just take it for granted for our own defense? her superiority over Germany in the air. that the bill will pass. Now, Jack, most of Mr. KOPPLEMANN. That's exactly Why I am That we are doing now, I think, to the these letters are sincere, that is why I am up supporting this bill. First let me say that here today. I want to make as clear as I the bill is coming into the House with best of our ability. But England says she can why this bill is vital to all of us. changes from the original draft, which I ex­ will need credit at the end of this year. Mr. ZAIMAN. Mr. KOPPLEMANN, one Of the pect to support as these changes apparently She has orders for $1,300,000,000 in 1941 chief arguments against this bill is that it do not nullify the basic provisions and pur- ., and $119,000,000 in 1942, and then her will draw us into war. What do you think poses of the bill, and that means all the cash or dollar exchange will be exhausted. about that? aid we can give in the shortest time. Second, That can be arranged right now by a bill Mr. KOPPLEMANN. If anything, this bill Will with each Nazi conquest the pronouncements authorizing a loan of, say, $2,000,000,000, prevent our combat involvement. If this of the German leaders against democracy, bill does not, nothing else will. This bill their utter ruthless disregard for humanity available when needed. will place Congress squarely on record in sup­ have become bolder. We know that Ger­ It will be very simple to bring this port of the a~ministration's foreign policy, a manic plans of world conquest endanger . about under a bill to provide a $2,000,- policy which the American people overwhelm­ North and South America. We know they 000,000 credit for England, and I would be ingly supported at the polls less than 3 have made alarming economic and political for such a bill. months ago. The President already, to a inroads into South American republics. We My first, greatest, and only concern is very large extent, has the power to do every­ know that if the Axis is victorious it is only the preservation of this constitutional thing this bill calls for. For instance, the a question of time when they will force the Republic. I believe that by speeding and Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1929, to which we are issue with us. Our own defense demands a party, provides that we supply any signa­ that we prevent their victory. perfecting our own defense, more so than tory nation which has been attacked by an­ Mr. ZAIM~N. Then, you think England is we are doing now, our 130,000,000 people, other signatory nation with financial and our first line of defense? with their resources, energy, and potential material assistance. It even provides that Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I do. If England goes power, can preserve this Republic indefi­ we assist that attacked nation with armed down I fear that war y.rill come to us, a war nitely. I believe that we can enhance forces. It's interesting to remember that which will impoverish us and will turn the our future peace and tranquillity by giv­ among the nations that signed the Kellogg­ vast resources and wealth of our country, not ing England the help proposed with Briand Pact were the United States, Poland, to domestic progress, not to ·the building up Greece, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, of a more contented people, but to the bare planes, ammunition, and ships that will Great Britain, France, Japan, Italy, and Ger­ task of defending ourselves from enemies, enable her to withstand Germany until many. That pact was solemnly drawn up without and within. We have attained a Germany collapses from within. and agreed to by all the nations signing it higher and a more uniform standard of living But to embark on the world-wide mis~ for the express purpose of outlawing war as than any other nation in the world. If Eng­ sian proposed by H. R. 1776 is beyond the an instrument of national policy. We are land goes down, we will have to sacrifice men powers of even our great Nation and morally bound under this international and spend money constantly for an indefinite would destroy the Republic, and therefore agreement to aid Great Britain and Greece number of years to fight a war of self-preser­ and China. Greece and China alone of all vation. We will meet war in the foreign mar­ I am against H. R. 1776. [Applause.] the nations attacked are still fighting their kets. We will have to compete against a Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr. aggressors. Britain, after repeated warnings barter system under which goods produced Chairman, I yield time to the gentleman to Germany, declared war when Poland was by forced labor will compete with our own, from Connecticut [Mr. KOPPLEMANN.] attacked. thereby forcing down our standard of living, Mr. KOPPLEMANN. Mr. Chairman, In addition to our moral responsibility to if we want foreign business, or driving us when I was home this week end, I was help with every resource at our command, into an economy of self -sufficiency. we must help to save ourselves. Mr. ZAIMAN. There are some people who be­ interviewed over the radio on the lend­ Mr. ZAIMAN . Then you think we will go to lieve that we can manage comfortably by lease bill by Mr. Jack Zaiman, a member war with the Axis in case Britain goes down? merely producing for ourselves. Don't you of the staff of the United Press. Mr. Mr. KoPPLEMANN. We are preparing against think so? Zaiman asked me a number of questions that possibility. Mr. KoPPLEMANN. Need I remind you that which are pretty much in line with ques­ Mr. ZAIMAN Do you think we will be in­ we were producing for ourselves in 1932, tions that my constituents are asking vaded? when our foreign trade had dropped by 70 about this bill in letters they are writing Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I am doubtful about percent? Need I remind you of the millions that, at least for the immediate future. But who were thrown out of work by the loss of me. I know that other Members of Con­ there are other ways of getting us into war. those foreign markets? The great cry which gress are receiving the same kind of let­ In the first place, let no one"delude himself rose over the land in 1932 was "Give us back ters. Because these questions are con­ into thinking that Germany's plan for world our foreign markets." stantly being referred to in this debate, conquest does not include the United States. Here in the city of Hartford, for instance, I think it germane to the discussion to Americans who spent years in Germany our typewriter industry would suffer disas­ include at this point the questions asked watching the development of Nazi war trously because 40 percent of the typewriters me by Mr. Zaiman and my replies: policies, have reported that if Adolf Hitler made here are sold outside of the United wins the war, whether we help Britain or not, States. When the Royal and the Underwood Mr. ZAIMAN . Do you consider the lend-lease sooner or later he will force the issue with are spurned by South America because Ger­ bill important? the United States. Every nation which sub­ many cnn sell a typewriter at a fraction of Mr. KOPPLEMANN. It is the most important sequently fell prey hoped by appeasing the our price, made by skilled machinists, who bill Congress has had for many years. dictators they would not be molested. receive less than a fifth of the pay of our Mr. ZAIMAN. Is there much opposition to it Mr. ZAIMAN. Yes; I remember Belgium and skilled workers, what will happen to Hart­ among Members of Congress? Poland. ford? Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I WOUld say not. Of Mr. KoPPLEMANN. And what about Den­ Mr. ZAIMAN. But what about our trade course, there is a. group of isolationist Con­ mark and Norway? For example, a. pact be­ agreements with these South American coun­ gressmen in both Houses. There are a few tween Germany and Denmark was signed in tries, and with other countries too? others who want to obstruct its passage for Berlin on May 31, 1939. The first article of Mr. KoPPLEMANN . We have sought peace purely political reasons; there are others who that pact stated-and these are the exact through friendly trade with other nations. don't see the need of it, but they are far in words-"The German Reich and the King­ We have built up our foreign trade by these the minority. dom of Denmark will under no circumstances agreements, recognizing that we must buy in 532 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 order to sell. ·But the Nazis, victorious, would presupposes also freedom from want. Every Mr. GIFFORD. Mr. Chairman, this is move into South America, undercut our trade American will approve that freedom for all a very serious moment for me. I have agreements, and smash our good-neighbor others, and this Government has devoted tts passed through such moments before. policy. In a world enslaved, where goods of major effort these past 8 years to assuring all description are produced under condi­ freedom from want. With all our shortcom­ During much of the year of 1939 we tions, that freemen scorn, where would ings, man enjoys this third freedom most listened to arguments relating to repeal American industry, both capital and labor, abundantly in America. And, lastly, true of the embargo. I was one of the seven qualify for world trade? Either we would be democracy presupposes freedom from fear of of the minority party who voted for such forced to stay out, and that is economic war-that is the goal to which we now dedi­ repeal. I speak of this because of the suicide, or we would meet them on their cate ourselves; that is the goal motivating our criticisms I endured at that time, but I terms, and that would be economic and so­ help to the nations battling the dictators. cial suicide. No, Jack, some people may carelessly express now welcome you all back to my point of Mr. ZAIMAN. Mr. KoPPLEMANN, you stated their disgust with democracy, but you don't view. [Laughter.] Every one of you now that skilled machinists under the Nazi system see them flocking to Russia, to Germany, and desires to aid Britain. Greatly do I re­ receive less than a fifth of the wage that ours to Italy. And the gates are wide open for spect my colleagues. I would not wish do. That's pretty low. On what do you them to leave. to suggest that anyone did not vote his base that statement? Mr. ZAIMAN. Herman Rauschning, who was sincere convictions. I wish to read to you Mr. KoPPLEMANN. On authoritative wage one of Hitler's chief deputies, relates in his one peroration at the end of a speech figures that I have. Today a skilled machin­ book, Voice of Destruction, that Hitler once only 4 months ago as I mistakenly ist in Germany receives 38¥2 marks for work­ said, and I quote, Congressman: "I guarantee ing 54 hours a week. In American terms, that at the right moment a new America will thought for the moment: that amounts to $9.60, or 18 cents an hour. exist as our strongest supporter when we are I am opposed to the traffic in arms because From that amount, he is forced to deduct 20 ready to take the stride into the overseas I believe it to be an utterly unmoral, un­ · percent in taxes, and from what is left must space." Do you place any credence in that Christian, and vicious system, turning our contribute to various collection funds. If alleged statement? country into a great slaughterhouse for the the Axis wins, goods will be produced for them Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I do, for this reason. If sake of blood money and war profits that by the nations under their ·domination. The this were an isolated statement, we might be will involve us in every war of the world. Axis will set the hours and wages. More­ inclined to pooh-pooh it. But in substance Why should we in Congress gamble with the over, as the months have progressed, German that statement has been repeated and con­ lives of the youth of America by repealing leaders have loudly proclaimed that they will firmed by other German leaders. Men who the arms embargo that was enacted to keep be the masters of the world; that all non­ were close to Hitler and who have since us out of war. Germanic peoples will be enslaved to them. broken away from him have repeatedly That is the goal that Nazi leaders hold out warned us to be on guard. They know he Now I read by the same speaker: to their p·eople. That is the drug which will use the "fifth column" tactics here that · We are all for aid to Britain short of war carries them on. he used in other countries. Any hope that and short of sacrificing our own defense and Mr. ZAIMAN. Mr. Kopplemann, if this bill some Americans may entertain that we are our own freedom. The British in their passes, won't we be in the war except that protected by the Atlantic and the Pacific valiant struggle, which has aroused our vast our men won't be fighting? If we go so far, oceans, and therefore can safely keep hands sympathy, need plaues, guns, and war ma­ can we stop involvement all the way? off, is a hope for a delusive security. While terials. Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I certainly think we can Britain controls the Atlantic it is our path­ prevent our involvement all the way. That's way to England. If Germany controls the Well, the reason for the change of what we want to prevent, and I believe we Atlantic it is their pathway to America. opinion is that now it is the law and we can do so if we send sufficient materiel in Mr. ZAIMAN. Congressman, what about the must act accordingly. I can only say I time. They need our supplies, not our men. charge that this bill will set up a dictator­ welcome all to my viewpoint, and am I think if Britain and her allies win the ques­ ship in this country? I know that you have a encouraged today again to present my tion of war will be solved for all time. We great regard for the President, but how far have learned the lessons of past mistakes. I do you think Congress ought to go in dele­ own point of view on this pending legis­ think the American people this time will in­ gating authority to him? lation. I have spent many hours reading sist on this Nation's sitting at a table with Mr. KOPPLEMANN. I am glad you asked the debates of 1939, and also in clipping the nations of the world to lay the founda­ that question, Jack. Any fear that this bill all sorts and kinds of comments on this tion for a lasting peace. If Britain loses, the would set the President up as a dictator is bill, H. R. 1776. question of war certainly will not be settled, pure bosh. In the first place, if the Presi­ Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Will the because the ideology and the purposes of nazi- dent wanted to be a dictator, he could have gentleman yield? 1sm and fascism are fundamentally contrary set himself up as one long ago. Every act of Mr. GIFFORD. Yes; I yield. to every democratic concept, to every ideal, his administration has been to prove to the and every goal of c_ivilization which founded world that here in America we can solve our Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. I did not this Nation and which has impelled its social and economic problems without re­ understand the gentleman who made progress. course to dictatorship. In the past the charge those remarks--one 4 months ago and Mr. ZAIMAN. You certainly have changed of dictatorship has been hurled against every the other recently. Who was the gentle­ your line of reasoning since you were last in piece of legislation calling for social and eco­ man who made those speeches? Congress. nomic reform. It is a convenient smear word Mr. GIFFORD. Why shoUld I call Mr. KoPPLEMANN. A great deal happened for the opposition. names? during those 2 years, Jack. For one thing, the Now, bear in mind that this lease-lend bill world turned upside down. Two years ago is merely an authorization bill, which will Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I made the the American people were clamoring for peace place the official stamp of approval of the · remarks; but not 4 months ago--14 through isolation. Today they have learned Congress upon the foreign policy of the ad­ months ago. there is no security in isolation. As the ministration. The bill does not appropriate Mr. GIFFORD. I have them here. leading independent Nation of the world we one penny to carry out its purposes. As the Mr. FISH. Not 4 months ago, but in have a great moral stake in Britain's victory. President acts under various authorizations November 1939. We have a great moral stake in the restora­ granted in this measure, he must come to Mr. GIFFORD. I have them here. I tion of democratic peoples who lost their in­ Congress for the· necessary appropriation for dependence. And we have a selfish stake. any goods which we do not have on hand or thought at first it was November 3, 1940. We cannot endure as the only free nation for which an appropriation has not been Mr. FISH. The repeal of the arms in a world enslaved. made. From this you can see that the Con­ embargo? That was a year and a half Mr. ZAIMAN. What about the people in this gress will play an important role in carrying ago. country who have lost faith in democracy out the purposes of this bill. Mr. GIFFORD. I probably made an and who would not be adverse to fascism or Mr. ZAIMAN. Congressman, do you bold out error in saying 4 months ago. I read 7 communism sweeping this country? any hope for England's winning this war of your speeches last Sunday and prob­ Mr. KoPPLEMANN. I don't believe there are without our help? ably got a little mixed. [Laughter .J many of them, although we must guard Mr. KOPPLEMANN. No, Jack, I do not. I was against the band-wagon jumpers. No doubt not sanguine about British victory even when Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman there are millions who now are indifferent, France was fighting by her side. The ar­ yield? · and even hostile, to everything the dictators senals of every country in E"!Jrope are pro­ Mr. GIFFORD. I yield. stano for, but who in the event of their vic­ ducing at top speed to beat Britain. If we Mr. HOFFMAN. Are you finding tory, would delude themselves into thinking don't become an arsenal for democracy and faUlt with the gentleman now because this Nation could obtain security through ap­ send sufficient help in sufficient time, it may he is willing to go along? What are you peasement. But bear this in mind: Our de­ be the last mistake free America will ever mocracy presupposes two essential liberties­ make. doing? Criticizing because we are yield­ freedom of speech and freedom to worship ing to your ~rgument? God as each individual pleases. Every Ameri­ Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield 20 Mr. GIFFORD. No. No greater pa­ can will fight for these two freedoms regard­ minutes to the gentleman from Massa­ triot in this House than the gentleman less of his station in life. True democracy chusetts [Mr. GIFFORD]. from New York [Mr. FISH]. Possibly 1941 CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-HOUSE 533 I am not worthy to untie his shoes the whole face of the world may be Perhaps I do not always wait for pub­ when it comes to patriotism. But we changed. To employ an illustration, as lic opinion. Two months ago I an­ have our .own opinions on legislation. I sometimes QO, you who love Roman nounced my position in general on this I simply comment on the fact. And the history will recall the saying that "if the matter. It has really saved me a lot of only reason I comment is because I was nose of Cleopatra had been shorter the correspondence. [Laughter .J If a man commented upon a plenty in 1939. face of the world would have been great­ has not a mind of his own "he has not Sometimes one likes to say "I told you ly changed." [Laughter.] Thus have missed much," and if one keeps an open so." [Laughter.] little matters sometimes dictated grave mind too long it is said that "it should Mr. FISH. Will the gentleman yield? events and disastrous results. be closed for repairs for a time." Mr. GIFFORD. Yes; I yield. I ha-;e here the able speech of the gen­ [Laughter.] After due consideration of Mr. FISH. I am really interested in tlewoman from Ohio [Mrs. BoLTONJ. We our actions during the embargo debate getting the record correct, because I did are very r :oud of her. She has poise, I was enabled to make up my mind that I not speak on the repeal of the arms em­ dignity, ability; she will take a high place wanted to extend aid to Britain. I desire bargo 4 months ago. in this Congress. [Applause. J She por­ to vote for this bill with certain amend­ Mr. GIFFORD. On the conference trayed the English people and their char­ ments, but, like all legislation, it must also report from the Senate, as I thought at acteristics. She talked of the Magna be passed by another body, and the real the moment, November 3, 1940. I have Carta and those things from which we test will be on the conference report. your speech. drew our liberty-loving opinions. It was So what we do this week is not the final Mr. FISH. That was in 1939. a splendid speech. I have said before word, and those of you who wish to give Mr. GIFFORD. I was wrong as to the that I appreciate the English people be­ aid, although not fully in accord with date. cause they seem to love liberty as much this bill, may vote affirmatively for the Mr. FISH. I think the gentleman is as we. They have no Hagues such as we principle, reserving final action on the wrong. . have in New Jersey. They have free conference report. Mr. GIFFORD. We passed the bill in speech. They have very little graft in There are several amendments sug­ J'uly 1939. It went to another body and England while here we have the Kelly­ gested in the minority report. it came back here after conference in Nash machine and a hundred others. In Is Germany a friend of ours? Is she November. England even the policemen do not carry inciting Japan to make trouble for us? Mr. FISH. That was 1939. revolvers, I understand. Imagine that! Is Japan waiting at this very moment for Mr. GIFFORD. I abjectly apologize, as They do not need to. There labor is in the crucial hour when she can proceed I am evidently wrong as to the date. the saddle. They have been much more with her ambitions and involve us? Why Nevertheless, I have the speech. [Laugh­ liberal with labor than even we ourselves. has our fleet been kept in the Pacific? ter.] But somebody rises to his feet and says: Why have we been so watchfui there? I want to vote for this bill. I want "Think of her past cruelty! Her past We know Japan is poised for action, do certain amendments. I do not want to oppressions." Yes; but let us look at our­ we not? I now ask how you would feel create such a dictatorship as many fear selves and think of our own past cruelty if we were plunged into a war with will be createC: by the measure. Does any and oppression. It took a civil war to Japan, our war vessels damaged, and we man in this House fear dictatorship by root it out. No; do not go back too far. found they could not put into Singapore the occupant of the White House more Take present conditions as they are; then for repairs? Would you like England to than I do? That could not be possible. we shall get somewhere. say, "We are neutral; although you are Mr. FISH. Has the gentleman decided No; we all desire to aid England. Some friends of ours and a long way from which was right as to that date? desire to give her a loan of $2,000,000,000. home, that does not matter, we cannot Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, I thought at first Make it $5,000,000,000. Why not? Two let you into Singapore for repairs"? Neu­ I was right. billion dollars is not enough. We are talk­ trality! Would we deem them friendly Mr. FISH. You are right? ing about from $20,000,000,000 to $40,- then? I do not want to be put in the Mr. GIFFORD. I thought I was right. 000,000,000 for defense. The gentleman ridiculous position that we cannot repair Mr. FISH. Are you gambling on that? from Ohio did not frighten me much a friendly power's ship lest "fifth col­ The CONGRESSIONAL RECORD is against YOU. when he said that the President could umnists" or a stray submarine drops a Mr. GIFFORD. Send out now for No­ give away $40,000,000,000 under this bill bomb. That would be an incident, to be vember 3, 1940. and I shall be definitely without coming to the Appropriations sure. We have sorely been vaccinated convinced. I desire to vote for a bill that Committee; but if we desired any new against that kind of incident. If you · will help and aid England. material or vessels, it would be necessary have not been, by what occurred in 1917, Mr. MUNDT. Will the gentleman to get an appropriation. That is possible. you should be. If we should say ·We yield? It is possible also that a meteor may fall would not repair ships of a friendly power Mr. GIFFORD. I want to vote in a from the sky and destroy us all; but we like Great Britain when we are really way that will be persuasive and helpful. do not expect it. Much as I distrust the already an ally, it would be a strange · I do not want to fix this bill so it will President in some of his domestic policies situation. Afraid to permit repairs lest be: "Mother, may I go out to swim?" I do not think he is as bad as that. [Ap­ we have an incident. "Yes: but don't go near the water." plause.] Furthermore, the bill says he We can no longer quote international Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Chair­ must report to us every 90 days, and we law. That has gone by the board. Let man, will the gentleman yield? certainly could restrain him, if necessary. us think very seriously when our friends Some Members are trying to write into offer the amendment that we should not Mr. GIFFORD. Certainly. this bill items which are plainly unconsti­ allow a friendly power whom we want Miss SUMNER of Illinois. There are tutional. The President has enormous so much to help to repair its ships in our those who say we will give every aid short powers under the Constitution which we, ports. · of war to Britain. I venture to say even by legislation, could not take away. I admit that I am somewhat wor­ when "aid short of war" is interpreted You have followed public opinion lately ried about the convoy idea. What is the to mean defense of the British homeland, and yielded to it. This President of ours Navy for? I thought it was largely to yes, short of war in defense of the whole is truly a marvelous politician. He see that our merchant ships arrive safely ·British Empire? Maybe; short of war knows when public opinion is with him. at their destination. Suppose our vessels to add to that empire? No. When he traded those warships the cry go to South America with goods to be Mr. GIFFORD. I do not believe there went up to heaven, did it not? But how placed there on British ships, and, know­ is anything to differ with there. quickly it subsided as soon as we found ing that our ships were loaded with goods [Laughter.] that public opinion was with him. designed for Great Britain, Hitler noti­ I want to vote for a bill that will be [Laughter.] When he has public opin­ fied us, "If you dare do that, we will sink persuasive. As stressed by the speakers ion with him and when he has power your ships." who have preceded me, this is a highly under the Constitution, I rather think he I rather think our Navy at the present important moment. England will go may again act similarly. Then he will time would convoy ships to South Amer­ down, it is said, unless she has aid, report to us and all he need say is: "Fait ica, even if such threats were made. We and we want to give her that assistance. accompli." If public opinion is with him should not propose such an all-embrac­ But how much? It may be that the we seemingly shall have to keep ourselves ing amendment. Do not tell Hitler that kind of bill we pass here means that dumb. we will not convoy and thus give him the 534 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 sort of encouragement which we did Mr. GIFFORD. Has the gentleman pared, but we cannot be prepared if we when we passed the Embargo Act. We found the speech? give away our Navy and our war mate- were perhaps cowardly when we declared, Mr. IlOFFMAN. Yes. The date on rials. . "We will take our ships off the high seas which we took the vote was November Mr. GIFFORD. Yes, but I refer the in war zones." I agreed with that. But 3, 1939. gentleman to those questionings over in I do not know how long we can keep that Mr. GIFFORD. I have had no chance another body the day before yesterday, promise, simply to prevent incidents. I to look it up, but doubtless I was in error. when they said we did not need all this shall often repeat, the fruits of the last Mr. HOFFMAN. Does not the gentle­ defense; that there is no immediate war were such as to vaccinate us against man know what we were doing in 1940? danger. iP-cidents. It will take more than inci­ We were in 3-day adjournments most of It has been pointed out that in South dents to get us into this war. I am confi­ the time. America there is a potential danger, and dent of that. Mr. KNUTSON. We were in church I fully agree. South America is not This President of ours seems to have on that day. only a military but a great economic actually softened recently. He does not Mr. GIFFORD. I am glad to give the danger. However, before I proceed begin to talk as aggressively as he did a gentleman from New York probation for further, I want to make a happy refer­ year or 2 years ago. We must give him the entire 14 months. The change that ence. credit for that. He seems much more came over him was most satisfactory. Great Britain is a good customer for restrained. He promised before election Mr. RUTHERFORD. November 3, our aged, but still useful, material. We that he would not allow our boys to go to 1940, was 2 days before election. have not been building many ships for 20 war. I must place at least a certain Mr. FISH. Does the gentleman stand years, and they must be getting rather . amount of confidence in that pledge. corrected on that? obsolete. This is a good time to send None of us , will vote to send our boys to Mr. GIFFORD. I, indeed, stand cor­ them over there, is it not, and let our this foreign war. We all know that. As I rected. Was it such a grave mistake? plants give us new ·ships? . We have a have before said, "We will keep him out It does not make much difference. The customer. Now, to :flavor that a little, of war." change of position was extremely im­ "Mama, what do they do with all the Perhaps the most important feature of portant. worn-out automobiles?" "They sell them this bill is cash loans,versus lending ma­ Mr. FISH. What I am going to say to your father." [Laughter.] terials. Let us consider cash roans. They now does. On June 30, 1939-and the Let us sell old material, especially to a have had to pay cash on the barrel head RECORD is here-the gentleman is paired friend in need and to whom it may still up to this moment. What have we really for the arms embargo that he is talking be useful. done for Great Britain up to this mo­ about. A week or two ago I spoke of the eco­ ment? Cash on the barrel head. And we Mr. GIFFORD. When was that? nomic rape that Germany hopes to make even refused to deliver the goods. Mr. FISH. That is on June 30, 1939. on South America. South America sells Mr. KNUTSON. Will the gentleman Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, yes. billions to Europe and only millions to us. yield? Mr. FISH. He is paired for the arms We cannot use their goods. We are try­ Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle­ embargo. ing to bol3ter things up, just now, by man from Minnesota. Mr. GIFFORD. Yes. When I made ­ loaning them money to keep their goods Mr. KNUTSON. Does not the gentle­ that 50-minute speech in November 1940, off the market. Germany well under­ man think it is possible that the fact I explained fully my final decision in the stands it. If England goes down, the Great Britain repudiated its debt to us matter. harbors of South America will be full some 10 or 12 years ago may have had Mr. FISH. Can the gentleman explain of .German-controlled ships. Not only something to do with our insisting on that in 50 minutes? will her airports be filled with airplanes cash at this time? Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, yes; I made a for commercial purposes but they will be Mr. GIFFORD. I had thought so. grand speech in that 50 minutes, if the gradually filled with airplanes for mili­ Mr. KNUTSON. No one but a sap gentleman will read it. If he would read tary purposes. Indeed, there is grave would give credit to a man who has re­ my speeches and I read his, he would be danger for us in that sphere. pudiated his loans. greatly helped. [Laughter and applause.] Where is our most important outpost? Mr. GIFFORD. And still you are to [Here the gavel fell.] W i! all know it is England. We all know our present dependence on the offer ~ motion to recommit and loan Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I Yield them $2 ,000,000,000 more, even though the gentleman 30 additional minutes. British Fleet. You cannot persuade me they repudiated the other debt. You Mr. GIFFORD. I thank the gentle­ that the British Fleet will be surrendered; are offering cash loans and-the way we man, and I shall be glad to share it with it would be almost unthinkable. England offer it is practically saying we do not ex­ the House. is not the British Commonwealth. The pect you to pay it back. Strange amend­ South America. There is where the British Fleet will never surrender, and ment, from the gentleman's point of danger is, as I pointed out the other day. where will it go? It will probably go view. I wish to contrast the lending I like to read the questionings of the where it will be an aid to ourselves in the proposition. "We may lend something in isolationists who attempt to show that Atlantic Ocean, while we need to be -the way of material. We may get it back there is no danger for years to come of watchful of the potential unfriendliness or we may get it back in kind." Is there Hitler attacking this continent. Why, in the Pacific. So, therefore, I think it not a better chance for us to get a return Secretary Knox this week is being put ver~, wise, indeed, that we should greatly by lending material than by giving cash? upon the rack to make him show that all assist that outpost. I am almost persuaded to consider the this anxiety of his is wholly imagination. Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman, lending idea as the better one. I am The Senator from South Dakota, with will the gentleman yield? waiting for the arguments on this phase others, is trying to prove that the isola­ Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle­ of the bill. You have dodged the question tionists are right when they say we can­ man from New York. up to now. Only one speaker has even not be attacked by Hitler for years to Mr. MARCANTONIO. Has the gen­ referred to it, so far as I recall. come. If that is true, why not lend these tleman ever taken into consideration the Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman materials to England? Why not, if we following contingency, which may hap­ are not in danger? If the isolationists pen; that after we have turned over all yield? themselves, who oppose this bill, say we of these materials, the :fleet or any por­ Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle- man from Michigan. · are not in any danger, why not let the tion of it, and England should fail, then democracies have at least our worn-out that material will fall into the hands of Mr. HOFFMAN. I wanted to ask the materials? the enemy; but even if it does not fall into gentleman if he was not mistaken about Mr. COFFEE of Nebraska. Mr. Chair­ the hands of the enemy, if England should the date of that speech? man, will the gentleman yield? fail after we have turned over all of these Mr. GIFFORD. I suspect so. . Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle­ materials, will we be worse off or better Mr. HOFFMAN. November 3, 1940, man from Nebraska. off than we are now from the standpoint was on a Sunday; 1939 was the year. In Mr. COFFEE of Nebraska. I believe of strict national defense? 1940 we were doing nothing except ad­ the contention has been made that we Mr. GIFFORD. I have tried to tell the journing 3 days at a time. are not in danger of attack if we are pre- gentleman that if England fails the fleet 1941 CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-HOUSE 535 will be saved. You cannot tell me they the United States but worse for Great ask you to consider seriously whether would sink the British Fleet while her Britain itself, as I shall try to explain cash loans are better than the lending­ dominions remain. The speaker just­ later. Now, I want to ask the gentleman, materials plan. The lady from Ohio ex­ ahead of me tried to prove, and I cannot in v-iew of what happened in France, how pressed herself according to the old challenge his figures, that England's can the gentleman predict now that the adage, "that if you lend money you mako shipping has increased rather than de­ British Fleet may not be turned against an enemy.'' When I was a boy growing creased in the last few months. I did not us in the event of the defeat of Britain? up, people did not have very much cash, know that was true. The picture as por­ Mr. GIFFORD. Because of Australia, and stores and pay day alike were often trayed to me has been entirely different. Canada, and other parts of the Dominion. far away. We then had to borrow a cup He says it has increased and that the That is my answer. If that is not suffi­ of sugar or a pint of molasses. We did sinkings have not been equal to what they cient, I cannot answer further. I have not make enemies by lending to people. have added. Then is it possible to believe reiterated that England is only an isle in Do not give me things and make me feel that we would lose what we might lend? the sea, only a part of the British Empire. that I must bow humbly in grateful ac­ His argument is most encouraging. If I am wrong, very well; but that is my knowledgment. Lend it to me and let Mr. MARCANTONIO. If the gentle­ viewpoint. me pay you something for the lending of man will yield further to me on that Mr. MOTT. The gentleman is not it and I will keep my self-respect. point, the gentleman must realize that necessarily wrong, but did not France An amendment is to be offered to the despite all this talk about democracy have dominions? effect that no part of our Navy may be there is a -great deal of imperialist char­ Mr. GIFFORD. France has dominions sold without action by the Congress. We acter about this war and that it is entirely over which she has to really exercise do­ gave them destroyers in that other deal. possible that the appeasement forces in minion, while Great Britain has domin­ Have we not a few more destroyers or England may negotiate a peace with the ions which are free peoples, and we have some of the mosquito :fleet which belongs Nazis. In that event you will be dealing to recognize that fact when we say that to the Navy that you can well lend them with a Fascist, totalitarian, imperialist we will freeze their holdings in this coun­ now when they so badly need it? Will England, and we can expect no more try. They are integral parts and sep­ you write into the bill that you cannot, friendliness from that kind of an England arate except in their loyalty. without coming to Congress, let them than we can expect from the present kind Mr. MOTT. France had a great do­ have one bit of the Navy-? That is going of a Germany. minion and an outpost in northern rather far. Mr. GIFFORD. Will Canada join in Africa and also a great army. yet that Mr. EATON and Mr. MOTT rose. that peace that you suggest with Hitler? did not save her :fleet. Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle­ Mr. MARCANTONIO. We are talking Mr. GIFFORD. Excuse me if I ap­ man from New Jersey, the man whom I about England now. pear to be too emphatic. I may be wrong. am trying to follow. I told you that, sir, Mr. GIFFORD. The gentleman is However, I venture my opinion. before you spoke yesterday, and I told talking about England and I am talking Mr. MOTT. The gentleman may be, you that this morning; that I had listened about the Empire-a great difference! of course. - to you and reread your speech twice try­ Mr. MARCANTONIO. The gentleman Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will ing to find out what you were going to do is asking for aid to England. If England the gentleman yield? in the end. [Laughter.] continues the Fascist course she is follow­ Mr. EATON. Well, my beloved ing now and makes a negotiated peace, Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle.; brother, that is what I have been trying then where are our interests in the face man from Michigan. to find out. [Laughter.] of a Fascist England, which is entirely Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman has Mr. GIFFORD. I think I want to go possible? been asking the gentleman from Mas­ with the gentleman. Mr. GIFFORD. England may be sachusetts what assurance he can give Mr. EATON. I would be in excellent forced to a Fascist situation for a time, us that this British Fleet, with the addi­ company. tions that the Americans might make to Mr. GIFFORD. I am sure of that. but the Dominions will not. England is it, would not fall into the hands of Ger­ not the British Empire. many at the end of the war, and I un­ Mr. EATON. I was deeply impressed Mr. MARCANTONIO. Is the gentle­ derstood the gentleman to answer that by the statement of the gentleman from man so naive as to believe that imperial­ Canada would still be in existence, but New York [Mr. MARCANTONIO], who has ism acts differently because it is of a this :fleet would not be fighting in Hud­ discovered a brand new crime that Eng­ British character rather than of a Ger­ son Bay or on the shores of Canada, but land is about to commit, namely, to be­ man clJ.aracter? The gentleman cer­ would be over across the sea, and that is come Fascist, and instantly in my frivol­ tainly has enough experience to know where we intend to send this aid. ous mind :flashed a little incident that I that imperialism acts or reacts accord­ recall. A maiden lady of uncertain sum­ Mr. GIFFORD. Everybody agrees or mers and years stood by her mantelpiece ing to the set of conditions in which it almost everybody agrees that the British finds itself. If conditions dictate that on which was a large stone vase. She Fleet must not be surrendered and would burst into uncontrollable weeping, and British imperialism be antagonistic to not be surrendered. If I thought other­ the welfare of America, you can rest as­ wise, I would take a different attitude someone asked her what was the matter. sured that despite all of the visits of perhaps, but I am confident of that, and She said, "I have just thought, if I had Lord Halifax and all of the visits of been married and had a baby and that that is the only answer I can make. vase fell on the baby and killed it, what Wendell Willkie, British imperialism will Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Chair­ be just as antagonistic to American in­ in God's name would I do?" [Laughter.] man, will the gentleman yield? Mr. GIFFORD. I want my young terests as Nazi imperialism. [Applause.] Mr. GIFFORD. I yield. Mr. GIFFORD. The gentleman is get­ friend from New York [Mr. MARCAN.;, ting far afield from the bill itself, I fear. Miss SUMNER of Illinois. I can give TONIO J to understand that this House He rather distrusts England, I gather. the gentleman some assistance on that, appreciates his ability and sincerity, and Mr. MOTT. Mr. Chairman, will the because I happen to know that there is we wish him well; we hope some day that gentleman yield? an organization of British colonies to he will not stand on this :floor and be Mr. GIFFORD. I yield to the gentle­ carry on in case of defeat of the home­ the only one to vote against defense. man from Oregon. land. Some day he may even be persuasive. Mr. MOTT. I want to ask the gentle­ Mr. GIFFORD. Now, I would like to Mr. MOTT. Mr. Chairman, will the man a question on the point he raised · sum up a little and then I shall gladly gentleman yield? a while ago about the loss of the British yield the :floor. Mr. GIFFORD. Yes. Fleet; but, if I may, I should like to make I wish to vote for this bill even though Mr. MOTT. The gentleman has heard this statement so that there may be no it is not exactly as I want it. I shall be many Members on the floor, as I have, misqnderstanding as to my attitude. glad to vote for .more restrictions. Does express the view-those opposed to the I am as much in favor of giving Britain not the report to Congress, each 90 days, bill-that if necessary they would be all the material aid that we can possibly reciting what the President has done, quite willing, not to loan, but to appro- give her short of war, as is the gentleman, give us a chance. to checkmate him if priate and give to Great Britain what­ only I believe that this bill is the very and when necessary? . We are. forced to ever money Great Britain required to worst way to do it-not only worse for grant great powers to. somebody. Now, I . buy supplies. I rather think that is the 536. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 maaority sentiment of the whole Con­ Mr. MOTT. The naval officers say ish Navy. When and where did the gress. Now, I ask this question if that none, and that is their testimony. British Navy ever sit in behind the de-· should be done, and it could be quickly Mr. GIFFORD. I am not on the Naval fense of the United States? and easily done by mandatory law, con­ or Military Affairs Committee. The Mr. GORE. Now. sidering the fact that Great Britain in gentleman is. I must agree that he has Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. No; she this country today is already taking more more information. I simply say, "Do not is not doing it now. She did not do it in than 75 percent of the entire American close the door," so that if we have any­ 1776. She did not do it in 1812. She did production of planes, tanks, and other thing to give them they can have it. not do it in 1861 to 1865. The only time war materiel-- Mr. KNUTSON. Mr. Chairman, will we have ever been together is when we Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, the gentleman is the gentleman yield? sent our ships to join and help the Brit­ saying that. I do not know. Mr. GIFFORD. Yes; I yield. ish Navy save the British Empire in 1917 Mr. MOTT. That is the testimony Mr. KNUTSON. Is the gentleman and 1918. [Applause.] before the Committee on Naval Affairs. from Massachusetts aware of a confer­ Mr. KNUTSON. Will the gentleman Mr. GIFFORD. Seventy-five percent ence that was held at Duesseldorf be­ yield to me? of certain kinds possibly. tween large British and German indus­ Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, I must answer the Mr. MOTT. That is the testimony, trialists in the spring of 1939? question. When did the British Navy and the testimony further is that two or Mr. GIFFORD. I heard you refer to ever join with us? I tried to show she three companies that have delivered to it the other day. has been our defense, especially in the Great Britain, delivered last year 100 per­ Mr. KNUTSON. Did that show any matter of the Monroe Doctrine, for many cent of the entire output. The gentle­ particular friendship on the part of Great years. Do not take my word for it. All man knows that under existing law, and Britain for us? historians say the Monroe Doctrine could under prior,ity regulations, the President Mr. GIFFORD. Forget friendship if not have been enforced without it, and - may order delivered to Great Britain the you want to. England is our first line of lately all the goods we have shipped to whole or any part of our entire American defense. You may disagree, but that England have been protected by her production. Great Britain has more view is the view of most of our people. Navy, and it is her Navy that sees to it orders placed here now than our factories Mr. KNUTSON. That statement vir­ that the goods get over there so that we can possibly fill. That being the case, tually is the same as calling 130,000,000 get the business. We have withdrawn and the Congress being willing to give to Americans a bunch of cowards. our own :fleet from such protection. Great Britain the cash, I ask the gentle­ Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, no. But she is Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman, will the man how much further we ougJ \t to go in our first line of defense and needed to gentleman yield? aid to Britain, or whether we can? help us in our all-embracing policy relat­ Mr. GIFFORD. I yield. Mr. GIFFORD. Has not the gentleman ing to South America and Canada. Mr. MAAS. Does not the gentleman been listening? Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, will realize that the Monroe Doctrine was cre­ Mr. MOTT. Yes. the gentleman yield to me? ated against England, and England Mr. GIFFORD. Why not give them Mr. GIFFORD. I am grateful to the alone? · some of that mosquito :fleet, even perhaps gentleman from New York [Mr. BLOOM] Mr. GIFFORD. No. some more destroyers without harm to for granting me so much time, but I will Mr. MAAS. Well, it was; and if the our Navy, if the Secretary of the Navy not yield further for speeches and that gentleman will read history, the main says that we can safely do it? I do not sort of thing. challenges to the Monroe Doctrine have mean too much, or to cripple ourselves, Mr. BLOOM. The gentleman's time come from the British, and the Monroe but we probably han some obsolete or has not yet expired. Go ahead. Doctrine was created to protect this hemi­ almost obsolete vessels that we can loan Mr. GIFFORD. I thank the gentle­ sphere against the British. if we wish. I simply do not want you to man. Mr. GIFFORD. I am glad if the gen­ close the door. Mr. BLOOM. I would suggest that if tleman is such a great historian. Let us Mr. MOTT. Oh, I am not closing the the Republicans want to make speeches have it that way, but after it was decreed, · door, but I am stating to the gentleman you let them do so later, however. England accepted it and has always been that we have authorized only 24 of that Mr. GIFFORD. Yes; I yield. a potential defender of it. mosquito :fleet and none are built. Mr. O'CONNOR. Has Great Britain Mr. MAAS. They have never defended Mr. GIFFORD. I want to give them indicated in any manner that she would the Monroe Doctrine. such aid as may be possible during the join hands with the United States in pro­ Mr. GIFFORD. Mr. Chairman, con­ next 60 days. Material to be fabricated tecting South American countries against sidering the length of time I have taken, cannot be furnished England any faster attack or invasion by any other nation? I refuse to yield further, not because I than we are doing it now, but materials Mr. GIFFORD. Oh, the gentleman want to desist. I enjoy it. But I have that we have on hand can be supplied. knows, and we all know, that the English consumed too much time. It would help in morale, and it is her Fleet protected us and has for years. All I close by saying that I want to aid PIOrale today that is holding her up. We authorities agree on that. England as much and as soon as possible. know that, and that is what we so greatly Mr. O'CONNOR. I realize that is what I do not want this bill so drawn that we admire. Lack of morale-witness Italy we say, but has she agreed in any way, cannot accomplish this purpose. I sus­ and France! I want to believe that our shape, or form to assist us in the protec­ pect there may be too much authority own people would have that same morale tion of the South American countries granted in the bill. I join you in amend­ as those of England under similar cir­ against invasion by any other country? ing it. I seemed to have been right in cumstances. Let us hold her hands up by Mr. GIFFORD. What she has done the repeal matter, and I now suggest that giving something to sustain her morale.· amply shows that. I doubt, of course, you now at this time prepare to follow Disunity, indecision, and delay should not whether a signed and sealed treaty has me. [Applause.] prevent prompt aid to England. If you been made. Her actions prove the asser­ [Here the gavel fell.] say lend or give her $2,000,000,000, just tion. Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield that and no more-then I feel that we Mr. O'CONNOR. Has she made any such time as he may desire to the gentle­ may have fallen far short of what we commitments of any kind along that man from Alabama [Mr. JARMAN], a ought to do. line? member of the committee. Mr. MOTT. In the first place, I do not Mr. GIFFORD. I have answered the Mr. JARMAN. Mr. Chairman, it is think anybody wants to limit this gift or gentleman. very interesting, I think, as we consider appropriation. In the next place I would Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr. what I thoroughly agree may be one of like the gentleman to suggest, outside of Chairman, will the gentleman yield to the most important pieces of legislation 12 of these motor torpedo boats that we me? ever to come before this House to dwell have now, what part of our Navy he Mr. GIFFORD. Yes; if you will be for a few moments on its background, to thinks that we can give to Great Britain kind to me. ascertain why it is here and what is its and be on the safe side. · Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. I will be basis. Very briefly stated, it is this: It is Mr. GIFFORD. I do not know. .The kind to the gentleman. I have heard the democracy functioning. It illustrates gentleman knows that I cannot answer statement made by the gentleman and the progress of the attitude of the great that question. by others that we depend upon the Brit- majority of the American people from 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 537 that of strict isolationism to that of total, ticularly and decided to apply for mem­ of this country so that such things as I all-out national defense. bership on it. I refer to the speech of have narrated in the case of Norway will I recall how at the time the C. C. C. Hitler just before Munich, wherein he not happen here. The people of America program was inaugurated, and since, it made the statement, you will recall, that are also thoroughly in sympathy with has seemed to me we were overlooking after the Sudetenland he had no other Great Britain, the resistance of which is a magnificent opportunity while we had claim in Europe; that that was his only a part of our national defense. There these several hundred thousand boys, the problem in Europe, or something to that was a time when a man hesitated to come flower of the youth of America, Army­ effect. That was in September of 1938, on this floor and indicate whether he housed, Army-equipped, Army-officered, and you saw him and the American wished one side or the other in this con­ not to take advantage of those circum­ people saw him swallow up the whole of troversy to win, and that time was not so stances-particularly in view of what a Czechoslovakia in March 1939. You and long ago. But the people of America, you long glance across Europe indicated to the American people saw him 6 months know, are not now neutral. How could us-to at least afford those boys and this later, despite a treaty of friendship, de­ they be under the circumstances? No; country the benefit of a little military spite repeated statements on his part they want Great Britain to win not only training, perhaps an hour a day or some­ that there was no problem between Po­ because of the atrocities to which I have thing of that kind. I thought along this land, Danzig, and Germany-you saw referred but because of the deep-seated­ line during my first 2 years in Congress, him· march in and fly over Poland and, and I think well-founded-conviction and then about 2 years ago I was so thor­ naturally, absolutely swallow it up with that the winning by Great Britain of the oughly impressed with the idea that I his superior might. The American people war, and her continuing to fight in the seriously considered introducing a bill to saw that, too. The American people also meantime, is probably the best national put it into effect. I always feel that heard of what t0 me is one of the sad­ defense· this great country of ours can when an idea strikes me that seems very dest and most despicable situations that possibly enjoy at this time. [Applause.] good and is very persistent, that if it is has happened during this war or that Yes; the people of America not only want so very good certainly it must already could happen at any time. to keep out of war but they want to keep have occurred to someone else. Conse­ You all remember how after the last war out of America. They have seen war quently, my next thought was: Why had war the peace-lovii.g, home-loving, law­ come to those other countries that not someone already introduced such a abiding people of Norway opened their wanted to keep out of war just as much bill? I made inquiry and was somewhat homes to the destitute refugee children as we do-little Denmark, Norway, Bel­ surprised to be presented with six or resulting from the war in Germany. gium, the Low Countries, and so forth. eight bills along this line which had They came in as babes and little boys Mr. Chairman, the American people, been introduced from time to time in and girls. They were fed there, clothed in my opinion, fully realize that national the past and which were then peace­ there, nutured and reared there, inso­ defense is very expensive indeed. They fully sleeping in the pigeonhole, I sup­ far as their early lives were concerned; realize further that whatever they spend pose, of some committee. Naturally I and then they later returned to the now to hold England up until we can concluded that nothing would be accom-. Fatherland. You read about the "fifth really become ready may be far less than plished by my addition to that number columnists" in Norway. I am very re­ would be the price of total defense on the of bills of another one. Those bills were liably informed, and I am by no means part of America of the Western Hemi­ not even considered by the Congress be­ . the only person here who has the in- sphere for perhaps the next generation cause of the fact that the American peo­ formation-it may have been in the or two. Something was· said today about ple were leaning backward in their de­ press; I do not know-that there was whether we would be repaid. They feel, termination to indicate in no way an really no "fifth column," as we know it, therefore, that the best investment in attitude of militarism. It was democracy in Norway. The people of Norway did which America can indulge today, wheth­ functioning through the Congress. not regard Major Quisling as a "fifth er they ever get a cent of it back or not; Six months later those of us who urged columnist" at all but as a neuropsy­ is to enable England to continue the the passage of the Neutrality Act lifting chiatric, for whom they harbored pity magnificent fight she has been putting the arms embargo in June 1939 very rather than censure. What was thought up for a number of months. Of course, largely based our argument on the desire to be the "fifth column" in Norway was this expense is going to necessitate me to lift that embargo before the occur­ merely the people sent over there by doing something I am frank to say I had rence of the war we all foresaw was a Hitler as additions to his embassy and no intention of ever doing. The expense very grave possibility, thereby avoiding legation, and people sent over there os­ of our national defense is naturally the charge of changing the rules in the tensibly to open small businesses. going to necessitate the increasing by midst of the game. You will recall that That was one group, but by far the the Congress of our debt limit, and, as I was largely the basis of our argument. most despicable group of those people say, I never had any intention of voting Why? Because we were leaning back­ were those boys who years before had ac­ for that. But I believe under the pres­ ward in our desire to indicate no atti­ cepted the hospitality of those good, ent circumstances it will be absolutely tude of militarism. peace-loving Norwegian people, boys who necessary. When that bill was finally passed sev­ were reared and possibly saved from star­ I feel, however, that by no means the eral months later in a special session vation by them. Those babes returned to majority of that great expense should called for that purpose, naturally those their old homes ostensibly on visits of be defrayed by increasing our national of us who had sponsored it on that basis friendship to their benefactors to tell debt. On the other hand, I feel that just were a little shaky, but we still felt that them how much they appreciated what as great a proportion as is possible should the urgent necessity for the national de­ they did for them when they could do be raised by immediate taxation. I feel fense of this country and for looking out nothing for themselves, and to indulge in that you and I should pay just as much for our country's interests was worth friendly visits. What happened? When as our incomes and our ability and our running the risk of being charged-as we the hour arrived those former babes left property will enable us to pay in order knew we then would be, because war had the homes of their benefactors, joJned the that the burden on our children and our come-with changing the rules in the small merchants and others who had children's children may be decreased. midst of the game. So the Neutrality been sent over, and took charge of Nor­ Mr. Chairman, there is no great or Act was passed. Again we saw the func­ way before the people of that country serious disagreement in what I have said tioning of democracy, the attitude of the knew what was going on. so far. I believe that the majority of people toward national defense, had The people of America, as I have said, the Members of this body and the people changed to that extent. have seen and heard those things. So of America feel just as I do in that re­ Then many of us no doubt heard in now, instead of having any hesitancy in spect. The question then arises, What is September 1938 that speech which was lifting an arms embargo, if we were con­ the best way in which to accomplish that responsible for my being on the Foreign sidering such a measure today, the senti­ national defense? and I have already Affairs Committee now, because as I ment of the people of America has pro­ indicated the answer. listened to that speech I decided that it gressed from that isolationist idea until As you have been told, our Committee was going to be a most important com­ they now are anxious to do anything pos­ on Foreign Affairs conducted very ex­ mittee during the next few years par- sible and necessary to insure the defense J;laustive hearings on this . bill. We had 538 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 before us the people we thought could We have been a peacetime Nation stances there is only one man on whom tell us the most about our Army, our throughout our existence, except for the this power may rightfully and properly Navy, our finances, and the national de­ few unpleasantnesses we have gone and reasonably be conferred. As far as fense of this country. Also those op­ through. We have not prepared our­ I am concerned I am absolutely satisfied posed to this bill were at liberty to call selves along the lines of defense. It is for this power to be conferred in the per­ anyone they wanted. We were told that consequently necessary to change this son and the mind of our great Com­ the present law about transferring de­ Nation overnight, or at least in a year, mander in Chief of the Army and Navy fense property creates such a haphazard from an undefended country, because of and our equally great President, in whom maze that it would be ridiculous, if not lack of munitions and defense articles, the people of the United States seem to impossible, to try to unwind those laws to a totally defended country. Mr. Chair­ have considerable confidence. [Ap­ and accomplish what the people of Amer­ man, it is absolutely necessary that vast plause.] ica want to accomplish without the pas­ powers be conferred on someone or some Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 sage of additional legislation. group of people in order to be sure that minutes to the gentleman from North I say that despite the idea of gentlemen this occur in time. Dakota [Mr. BURDICK]. on the other side who want to lend Where should those powers be con­ Mr. BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, I $2,000,000,000 and let it go at that. ferred? On whom? It has been sug­ wonder if I can approach this subject in These conflicting laws which now exist gested by some, which I regard as a a little different way. I do not want to are responsible for the phrase "notwith­ ridiculous suggestion, that they should call anybody un-American or unpatriotic, standing any other law." This phrase be conferred upon a joint committee of or disagree With him personally because repeals no law at all but merely sets that the House and the other body. Every he does not believe as I do. This debate hodgepodge aside until we can help Eng­ one of you is thoroughly occupied in up to date has been very uncharitable. land win this war, at which time that representing your country and your dis­ I am sure, from my acquaintance here in hodgepodge of laws can, so far as we trict, attending to business that only you the House, that there is no Member here care, return to effectiveness again. can attend to. Secretary Hull has told us who will either address himself upon this Time is not available to dwell on the that time is the essence of this matter. subject" or cast his vote on it unless it is many aspects of this bill which will con­ Now, which one of you has time to spend a thing that he conscientiously intends tribute directly toward the end we have all of your time, and all of it would be to do. If everyone does that you will in mind, but I shall take a few moments required, sitting on a commission to wield satisfy the people of the country. If you to mention a few. this power which someone must wield? have no personal interest in this matter Now, we had before us Secretary Stim­ Furthermore, are you technically advised and have only the public welfare at son, and I do not think of him as a on military articles and national de­ heart, you can make mistake after mis­ Republican or as a Democrat. It is true, fense? take and the people will forgive you, but of course, that he is a good Republican, We have one of the greatest Speakers there is no hope for anyone who will vote or he said he was. On the other hand, I the House has ever enjoyed. He is at upon this important bill, or any other, consider him as a patriotic public ser­ least the third most powerful official in unless he has only the best interests of vant and statesman who has rendered our Government, but he is a busy man this Government at heart. yeoman service to our country in nu­ and he is not technically advised in mat­ Because the gentleman from Minne­ merous capacities, even though he is ters of natiopal defense. Would you sota may disagree with me on some sub­ from the other side of the aisle. I be­ confer that power on him in addition to jects and on this one does not mean lieve it was Secretary Stimson who said his other duties? there is a rupture of any personal rela­ there were 12 purchasing commissions of We have a good Vice President and a tions I may have with him. I respect foreign countries operating in America­ good President pro tempore of the Sen­ you all, . and I will respect you more if ! suppose he said during this war-com­ ate, but I do not believe either one of you will vote on this bill just the way peting with each other, trying to induce them is an expert in such matters. you want to vote and do not let anybody our comparatively few factories manu­ Would you confer this power on them, or influence you. facturing national-defense materials, either one of them? I have great respect for the gentleman and so forth, to manufacture the par­ I say to you, my colleagues, as the from Massachusetts but I believe he was ticular size of cartridge to fit their par­ sensible and reasonable men and women a little unfair to the leader of the Re­ ticular guns. They were competing with I know you all to be, even my friends publican side, because the gentleman each other, they were bidding against on this side of the aisle, that if you had from New York has always been con­ each other, no doubt. Of course, you the decision of that question yourself, sistent upon this measure now before understand that the passage of this bill and felt that the safety and probably the the House and every corollary of it. The will eliminate this competition because whole future of this great Nation of ours gentleman from Massachusetts, who it will cause the munitions to be produced depended on your decision, you would not spoke here this afternoon, is one of my for all of those countries we want to help confer that power on any of the gentle­ close personal friends in this House. I to be purchased by one department, un­ men I have mentioned. Furthermore, I want to call his attention to one provi­ der one head, really by officers of the submit that you would agree with me sion of the bill because he intimated Army and Navy who have devoted their that if the future of the country were at here that he was still open to conviction. lives to that very subject and, of course, stake and resting on your shoulders there I think that is more than I can say. I are very competent therein. is only one place in America where that am frank to say to this House right now We all understand that it is economi­ power should and must be conferred, that I do not care how you amend the cally unsound for either the business in­ there is only one man in America who bill, when you get through I am against terests of this country, or for the coun­ has his War Department and his Navy it. [Applause.] try itself, to build sufficient armament Department at his fingertips through plants during the immediate future to those Secretaries, who are experienced Let me call the attention of the gentle­ meet our needs alone for total defense. in such matters and who have capable man from Massachusetts to this para­ It would be wasteful because we may not assistants who have worked on them graph of the bill. He seemed to think need those plants very long-at least, we throughout their lives; there is only one we were all right because the President sincerely hope we will not. On the other man who has the Department of State, would have to rep0rt from time to time hand, that businessman can well afford with its able Secretary, and with listen­ and let us know what is going on. The to indulge in an outlay of several million ing posts throughout the world to report bill states : dollars if he knows that in addition to to him day by day, if necessary, what is The President from time to time, but not the shells which will probably be required going on. That man, of course, is the less frequently than once every 90 days, shall by his own Government that his own man who was constituted by our Consti­ transmit to •the Congress a report of opera­ tions under this act, except such information Government will place with him orders tution the Commander in Chief of our as he deems incompatible with the public for Great Britain, and possibly Greece, Army and Navy, and who also was interest to disclose. China, and other countries. In other charged by the Constitution with entire words, it will make the proposition eco­ responsibility for our foreign relations. Just what would the President disclose nomically sound. I submit to you that under those circum- if he did not want to disclose it? I ask 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 539 the gentlen\an from Massachusetts to fig­ With this present attitude of mind on ·· the same reason, as they saw it-to get ure that one out. the part of the Pr~sident, I, for one, re­ away from an unjust government. Why On page 5 there is this provision: fuse to grant him the unlimited power have millions come to the shores of There is hereby authorized to be appro­ which he asl{S. Presidents can be wrong America every year since? For the same priated from time to time, out of any money as wen .. as other offic.ers of the Federal purpose. in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, Goverimient: All-out aid to Britain may My ancestors came here over 300 years such amounts as may be necessary to carry mean anything. To sell her supplies is ago for that same purpose, and none of out the provisions and accomplish the pur­ one thing-that we are doing now-and them ever went back to live there. poses of this act. if anyone thinks otherwise let me call Why do we have more people of Scan- · How much money? I do not know, and his attention to the output of combat dinavian blood in the United States than nobody else does. planes in November '1940. The total out­ there are in Europe? Simply because What can the President do? put was 343, of which we retained 6 and those old pioneers of independence left The terms and conditions upon which any England received 337. To sell her sup­ the old country because they were not such foreign government receives any aid au­ plies and convoy them to England is an­ satisfied with that government and came thorized under subsection (a) shall be those other thing; to have these convoys sunk to one they love and one in which they which the President deems satisfactory, and by German submarines and mines is an­ have taken a part and helped to build. the benefit to the United States may be pay­ other thing; . to have actual war is the [Here the gavel fell.J ment or repayment in kind or property, or last thing. But the first thing and the Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the any other direct or indirect benefit which the last thing are in close proximity-the last gentleman 5 additional minutes. President deems satisfactory. thing is inevitable from the first thing. Mr. BURDICK. And why have Ger­ There is your consideration. If you This means, therefore, if we grant these mans, Poles, Bohemians, Italians, Greeks, lawyers in the House have ever tried a dictatorial powers to the President war is and all nationalities come here? For the lawsuit before a court of competent juris­ inevitable. A war for what? The last same purpose. diction, you know what that means-any war was fought by the United States "to I believe that in Italy every Italian consideration of any kind that the Presi­ make the world safe for democracy." should be granted the right of free dent deems sufficient. He could take in Did it make it safe? Is democracy safe speech. I think the President is right, any property we have in the way of de­ now anywhere in the world, even includ­ but his idealism· is wrong if he thinks we fense. ing our own country? What will we are going to enforce that right in Italy. Mr. KNUTSON. He could even take enter this war for? If the English people like England, let streetcar tokens in payment, could he I am not willing to give any such power them stay in England. Mine did not­ not? to this President or any President. Con­ they moved out. [Laughter.] If . the Mr. BURDICK. I do not know that gress will no doubt be constantly in ses­ Germans like Germany, let them stay in they would be any good, because there· is sion and any necessary defense act can Germany, but we will treat them all fairly a question whether the dollar will be any be passed in 1 day under suspension of and justly when they come to the shores; good if we get into a European war. the rules. It will be safer for the people of America. If the Italian cannot speak If we maintain the defenses of the of the United States to have the opinion his mind in Italy he knows where he can. United States and its possessions and de­ of 532 officers than to have merely the I think there is a lot of idealism in the fend the Western Hemisphere, which opinion of 1 officer. The decision of mind of the President. I think he wants came into being in the War of 1812, it Congress is more apt to have the approval to go too far at a time when we cannot go means we have a job cut out that will tax of the people than the decision of the far. Every true American sympathizes all the strength we have. If anybody President. with the English people, but the mistakes doubts when the Monroe Doctrine was It seems to me the President gave the of their Baldwins and their Chamber­ started, you only have to read about the key to the whole situation when he made lains should not be charged to us. [Ap­ War of 1812 to find out. his speech here to the Congress. I am plause.] If we make a mistake in this If, in addition to that, we are to police one of the Republicans who have a great couptry, and we hav~ made many of Europe and the world at large, we are deal of confidence in the President. I them, no nation comes to our rescue to embarking upon a work which we cannot believe him to be a great American-one the extent of their entire resources and do, and in attempting it our own self­ of the great ones that has come to occupy their blood. Every American sympa­ defense will be sapped of power. I think the White House. I think he is filled thizes with the German people who have there is something behind this move with idealism, and I disagree with him on lost control of their government, but it other than the welfare of England, be­ this issue, as I have on two other issues is not our duty, is it, to go over to Ger­ that have come before this Congress, and many and help the German people get cause I do not think you can find a they Member of this House who does not I am still his friend. He said in his control of a government which sympathize with England or with any speech to this Congress, "Free speech themselves through their own acts made should be a right anywhere in the world." possible? Every American sympathizes other country that is pursued as ruth­ with the Italian people, but is it our duty lessly as the dicta tors of Europe have Yes; it should; I agree with the President. Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman, to expel their dictator whose existence performed their functions. the Italian people themselves made pos­ I do not believe the President either will the gentleman yield there? Did the President have in mind liberty in India sible? The answer to these questions is believes in or wants to supplant de­ obvious. mocracy by a dictatorship. I believe his and in the West Indies and in South Africa? · Now let me tell you what I believe our motives to be highly patriotic, but any policy should be, and I am not telling patriotic citizen can be mistaken. If the Mr. BURDICK. I cannot tell you what you anything that I do not believe. Our President were any ordinary citizen those he had in mind; I am telling you what he policy now should be first to maintain a mistakes would not injure anyone and in said. [Laughter.] good government for ourselves and make all probabality would not even be noticed. The people should have the right under a it possible to maintain· here on this hemi­ When mistakes, however, are made by democratic form of government to live any­ sphere a government guaranteeing the one highest in ·command in this democ­ where in the world. blessings of liberty to all citizens, native­ racy it may mean disaster. I agree with the President; but can we born and naturalized; secondly, to keep The President of the United States is go out and enforce that right, anywhere out by force, if necessary, any attempt of too wrapped up with the defense of in the world, for free speech and for a de­ any European country to extend further England as the only means of defending mocra;cy? About all we have to do is to its dominion.s in the 'Western Hemi­ ourselves. That is the error he has made. realize our own place in the world. We sphere. On that ground, and that alone, The ·president insists that free speech, can do that and stop and ask ourselves, should be founded the borders of our the blessings of liberty, shall be enjoyed Why did our ancestors bave Europe? empire. by people anywhere in the world. It is Why did the Pilgrims come here? To get In rescuing democracy from dictators, a noble thought, but to put into effect away from an unjust government; and let us not make the mistake of believing what he dreams might well mean the why did the Cavaliers come to Virginia? that we can only do it by a dictator. destruction of all we have or all we are To get away from an unjust government. When we have arrived at that verdict, or hope to be. Why did the Puritans come here? For democracy ha.s ceased to exist. 540 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 With this attitude, this idealism on the Party, you will get just the kind of lead­ Unless we here in this Congress estab­ part of the President, which I very much ership that you got this time. [Laugh­ lish a different monetary policy, the rich admire, I am not willing to give this ter.} will become richer and the poor poorer. unlimited power to the President.. My The CHAIRMAN. The time of the The private control of money and credit good friend from South Carolina either gentleman from North Dakota has again in the United States has fostered upon overspoke himself or in the heat of argu­ expired. the people an interest-taking system that ment made a statement which I would Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the will soon be completely unbearable and like to have him review before the REc­ gentleman 3 minutes more. there will finally be open rebellion. There ORD is printed. The gentleman from Mr. BURDICK. And any time you let can be no united people in the United South Carolina [Mr. RICBARDSJ said that a bunch of discredited Democrats lead States while this situation prevails. In McKinley was given power to put the the Republican Party, it will wind up just our scramble to build our defense, should country into war if be wanted to; why the way I said it would on June 19. we overlook the one indispensable ele­ do we hesitate to give equal power to the When a bunch of deserters go in with ment of that defense-unity among the President now? You did not mean that you, never put them on the front seat. people who have a common purpose, a we should give the power to the Presi­ Let them serve in the ranks until you common end, to maintain a government dent to put this country into war if he know what their purpose is; and if it where the right of life, liberty, and the wanted to, did you? is not asking too much, I wonder if it pursuit of happiness is the unqualified Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. Chairman, will would be out of order h ask these Demo­ right of every citizen? the gentleman yield? ciats to return the Republican Party to Having done that, is there anyone in Mr. BURDICK. Yes; I yield, because I us a:nd let us try to run it ourselves next this House afraid that the United States am talking about you. . time. [Applause.J cannot defend herself against Germany, Mr. RICHARDS. What I said or in­ Mr. Chairman, there is in this country against Italy, or against both with Eng­ tended to say was that McKinley was a dangerous: element. It is an element land added? When any of these coun­ given powers which, if abused, would lead on which all "isms" inimical to this tries come over 3,000 miles across the sea this country into war; and powers have Union grow, and that is the thing we to face a united people, armed as we hope been given almost every President since want to tackle in this Congress. Do not we shall be armed, the failure of any such the Nation was founded which, if abused, just pass this bill and Jet it be signed venture is as certain as it is that the earth could be used as an instrument to lead and g.ive away all your rights as Members revolves around the sun. this country into war. of the United States Congress, because We do not ask any nation to fight our Mr. BURDICK. Satisfy yourself with that is what it would amount to, but battles for us, and it is unfair to say that the record and it will satisfy me. stay here and tackle the job. The great­ any nation is doing or ever has done that. Mr. RICHARDS. But I am trying to est enemy of America is not Germany, We are able to defend ourselves, but we satisfy the gentlema:n. not Italy, but poverty in the United cannot police the world. [Applause.] . Mr. BURDICK. That is all. Person­ ·states of America. We have 62,000,000 The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gen­ ally the gentleman has satisfied me. people in some degree of distress in tleman from North Dakota has again The CHAIRMAN. The time of the America today, and it is because of this expired. gentleman from North Dakota has ex­ distress that these "isms" can· grow. If Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, will the pired. we would tackle this like a physician and Chair kindly tell us how the time stands? Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the remove the cause, instead of giving injec:.. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman gentleman 2 minutes more. tions to stop the pain, we would get from New York [Mr. BLooM) has con­ Mr. BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, this is somewhere. There is a reason behind sumed 4. hours-and 1'1 minutes and the the most important subject of all, and all that, and that is that some of the gentleman from New York [Mr. FisH] I have only 2 minutes. lt reminds me of people have too much and ~orne of them has consumed 3 hours and 37 minutes. the early days in Dakota. In those days do not have anything; and I have told Mr. FISH. Mr~ Cbairman, I have one horse races were frequent, but nobody you time and again on the floor of this speaker who has been waiting here from had a fast horse. A neighbor of mine House, until I am tired of saying any­ the very beginning, and I think I am en­ found an old Frenchman up in the Tur­ thing further about it, that in the end titled to put him on at this time. tle Mountains who had a horse that he food will win every war, because it has: . Mr. BLOOM. Mr ~ Chairman, there is said could go in 3 minutes. He went out won every war in the history of the world. no question about what the gentleman is and he bought that horse. The old If we do get into war-which I predict entitled · to. but I think the gentleman Frenchman told him that it would go in f10m the passage of this bill-this is what from New York and I had just a little 3 minutes. My neighbor took him to the I believe will follow: The :first thing you agreement between ourselves, and I want races, and 4 minutes was the best that are going to do is to ask a bunch of farm­ now to put on the next speaker on my he could do. He went back and said, ers. 2,000.000 of whom you put out on the list. "Jean, what did you try to cheat me for? highways in the last 8 years, to raise food Mr. FISH. I think it is a little bit hard That horse can only make it in 4 min­ for you; and when on the floor of this on the gentleman who has been waiting utes, and what have you to say for your­ House I have tried to incorporate in here, but go ahead.. self?., "Well, by golly, you must been in every war bill a provision to furnish seed Mr. BLOOM. I thank the gentleman one hell of a hurry, that you cannot wait for farmers who had no seed s:o that they from New York. Mr. Chairman, I now 1 minoot." [Laughter.] I do not know can grow this food, you have said, ''No." yield 20 minutes to the gentleman from whether you are in a hurry or not, but Let us look to our own people in Amer­ New York [Mr. WADSWORTH}. I am fully aware that the titular head ica; because if we have a united people Mr. WADSWORTH. Mr. Chairman, of the Republican Party shares the same in this country-and I mean united, may I preface my remarks by stating views as the President. I was aware of wanting to defend this country and its that the fact that the gentleman from that during the campaign. I think they fiag-there is not any power or combina­ New York [Mr. BLOOM] has yielded to agreed on everything except the third tion of powers in the world that could me for 20 minutes should not be taken term, and, I think, on the last night he defeat America. [Applause.} as an indication that the gentleman from agreed with that. [Laughter.} At least Can we build a strong national defense New York EMr. FisH] has been at all there was only one issue at any time, while during that process we allow farm­ or in any way unwilling to grant me and that was a third term, and the people ers and city owners to be dispossessed by some of the time at his disposal. Tbe washed that out. But, seriously, as early causes wholly beyond their control? fact is that the gentleman from New as June 19, 1940, on the floor of this Should we not stop long enough to cure Yo1·k [Mr. FisH], in charge of the time House, in this same place, I predicted the this situation? on the minority side, has a very, very nomination of Mr. Willkie, and I paid my Our strongest national defense is a long list of applicants, and partly to re­ respects to that candidate on that occa­ united people-all believing in this Gov­ lieve him of his strain, if I may use that sion. My remarks may be found on page ernment and willing to pay any penalty expression, and perhaps to balance the 12960 of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD of to defend it. When people are willing to convenience of this debate, I acknowledge June 19, 1940. He is the leader of the pay that price for a Government they and accept the courtesy extended to me Republican Party. Any time you let a first want to be assured that the Govern­ by the gentleman from New York [Mr. bunch of Democrats lead the Republican ment they defend will protect them. BLOOM]. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 541 Mr. Chairman, like most of the Mem­ ation of its granting or its exercise we great emergency faces the country justi· bers of the House here present, I was tre­ should, in my judgment, if possible, put fying the delegation of power to the Pres .. mendously impressed with the remarks aside all personal considerations. Great ident may, if it pleases, put a time limi­ made by the gentleman from New Jersey powers have been exercised by Presi­ tation upon its exercise. I believe that [Mr. EATON] spoken upon this bill. He dents of the past, and exercised quickly; such a thing is vital, or that it may be painted an accurate, vivid, and compre­ sometimes without waiting for the reg­ vital, for with a setting of a time limit, if hensive picture of the world situation, istered consent of the Congress. I hope it is effectively done, the power sum­ and drew a conclusion from it to the my memory of historical incidents proves moned by the Congress and conferred effect that it most certainly affects the to be correct, but I seem to remember upon the President returns to the Con­ United States both for the present, the that Thomas Jefferson, who was metic­ gress at the end of the time, and the Con­ immediate future, and for the far-flung ulous in his regard for the Constitution, gress at that moment . may decide future. I am convinced that he spoke hesitated not at all in his purchase of whether or not it should be renewed in the truth about that. I shall not en­ the Louisiana Territory, without the whole or in part, or not renewed at all, large upon his description except. per­ registered consent of the Congress. He depending upon conditions. Thus the haps to remind you that this effort on met an emergency, as he viewed it, in setting of a time limit upon the exercise the part of the totalitarian powers is not order to strengthen the Government and of these vast powers is of vital impor­ merely a military or economic effort, it the people of the United States. tance. is more than that. It is an attempt We come down to Abraham Lincoln. But there is another check which is to spread revolution all over the world; Shortly after the firing upon Sumter he 1 inherent in our form of government, and revolution involving eventually the up­ found himself here in Washington City that is the undoubted power which the setting of social, economic, and political for some days actually cut off from all Congress possesses in the control of the conditions everywhere, and the imposi­ communication with Northern and purse strings. Powers may be granted tion of a set of new philosophies upon Western States, and with this city, quite to the executive branch, but unless they all nations, including our own. naturally, thronged with sympathizers of are subsequently financed by appropria­ Starting with the premise of the gen­ those who would make a success of tions made by the Congress they cannot tleman from NevJ Jersey [Mr. EATON], secession. be exercised. They will perish eventually with which I agree, and being very, very The Congress was not in session at the and their possessor will turn out in the deeply concerned about the safety of our time. It did not meet until July of 1861. end to be empty-handed; in other words, country, I am impelled ~o reach the con­ Lincoln had to meet his emergency in they cannot be exercised without money, clusion that the passage of this or a sim­ April of 1861. He did something in the money appropriated by the Congress ilar bill will contribute to the safety of way of an exercise of power which I think from time to time. the United States. [Applause.] I think no other President has ever done. He Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Chairman, will it fair to remind you that the Congress suspended the right of habeas corpus. the gentleman yield at that point? has already given marked evidence of its The implications of such an act are tre­ Mr. WADSWORTH. I would prefer, deep concern over the future safety of mendous. He did it as he thought and if I may, to finish this discussion. I hope the United States when it provided, as it as I believe-and I think he was right­ the gentleman from Michigan will for· did last year, for what we term a two­ to save his Government. Incidentally, give me. ocean navy. Had we been at all uncon­ before the Congress convened in July of I have often regretted during my serv­ cerned we would ·not have gone to the 1861, Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers ice here that the Congress has not upon extent of providing, as rapidly as may be, on his own responsibility. Those are some more frequent occasions exercised that protection for ourselves from both the of the exercises of Presidential power of power. I think there have been incidents Pacific and the Atlantic. Thus I think the past. There are others which are in in which it might well have been exer· the action of the Congress already taken the memory, doubtless, of a great many cised with a little greater degree of sev­ in that particular measure and in oth­ men in this House. Consider the powers erity. Perhaps you do not realize the ex­ ers-but that is the outstanding measure, exercised by President Wilson during our tent of that power. It really is supreme as indicating our concern in this troubled participation in the World War. Not in the long run. Perhaps we hesitate to world-justifies us at this hour in still only was he the unrestrained Command­ use it lest we be criticized. In my judg­ further fortifying, if we may, the institu­ er in Chief of the Army and the Navy ment it should be used more frequently, tions of this country and their preserva­ as provided by the Constitution, but by and if it were done more frequently I be­ tion in the years to come. legislation passed by the Congress he, lieve the ultimate effect would be healthy As I look upon it, the United States either directly or through agents ap­ and would do much to maintain the faces an emergency realized and ac­ pointed by himself, controlled the price proper balance between the legislative knowledged by the Congress and the of wheat all over the country; the price and executive branches. For example, · people. It is the high function of the of coal; the rationing of gasoline; the we come to this bill-and here I beg leave Congress to summon the resources of the control of the supply of all raw materials, to make a suggestion or two with which land, the power of the Nation, for its de­ iron ore, pig iron, copper, and a great you may not agree, but which may be fense; to summon the manpower, if nec­ number of materials and elements which worthy at least of your present consid· essary; to build up our seapower; to in the aggregate affected the daily life of eration. The bill contains a 2-year limi· mobilize materials; to mobilize strength. every man, woman, and child in the coun­ tation upon the exercise of the power. I That is the function of the Congress, try-all done under the exercise of Exec­ am glad it does, and I will come back to a performing its legislative duty, as I look utive power by the President of the little discussion of that in a few moments. upon it. United States to meet an emergency. Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, will the Having summoned the resources and So I think it fair to say that the exer­ gentleman yield? the powers there is but one officer of the cise of great powers by a President is not Mr. WADSWORTH. Certainly. Government under the Constitution of new in our history; and probably as years Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, at this the United states who may employ those come and go down through the future, time I wish to yield·20 additional minutes resources and exercise those powers­ more incidents like those of the past will to the gentleman from New York. the President; none other. As one of occur. Apparently the authors of our The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman the gentlemen indicated in his speech Constitution, the founders of our Gov­ from New York is recognized for 20 ad­ this afternoon-at least, I think he did­ ernment, were well aware of what they ditional minutes. the Congress may not share the exercise were doing when they conferred that Mr. WADSWORTH. Mr. Chairman, of Executive power with the President of executive power upon the President. we come to that paragraph in the bill the United States. That is a thing well They must have looked ahead and real­ which authorizes expenditures to carry known and recognized ever since our ized that upon occasion dire emergencies out and achieve the purposes of this act. Government was founded. He is the might arise, and that only by the action, There is no limitation upon that authori· Chief Executive and the only Executive. and the quick action, of one man might zation. I am informed that the Com­ So, that if the resources are to be em­ the country be saved. In other words, mittee on Foreign Affairs discussed that ployed and the power to be exercised, that Presidents must be trusted. matter but by a majority vote refrained there is but one person. Obviously it is a However, there are effective checks to from inserting any limitation upon the great power, increased upon occasion to the exercise of such power. In the first amount authorized to be expended aftel' enormous dimensions. In our consider- place, the Congress, if convinced that a the act shall have passed. I am going 542 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 to be very frank with the Members of 10, perhaps 12 months actually to feel itable result will be the sending of the the House and say that there is a multi­ the effect in a material sense of the armed forces of this Nation-the sons of tude of people in this country today who passage of this bill. this Republic-to stand guard or do are filled with apprehension about this But there is another element in this battle even unto the uttermost parts of measure. They fear the Congress is sur­ situation that I cannot help but regard the earth. Only a miracle could save us rendering all its powers, and we hear as exceedingly important, and it is im­ from such a sad fate. And no one can talk of dictatorship. To allay this appre­ portant from the standpoint of the predict what the final outcome would be. hension and to make it perfectly plain United States. After all, that is our chief One of my prime purposes in making at least to all thoughtful people that the concern. The passage of this bill or these remarks here today is to warn my Congress is in effect retaining its power something very much like it will have an constituents as well as all the people of of ultimate control of this program, I immediate and dynamic effect upon the this Republic as to the consequences think a limitation should be placed upon morale of the people who are now suffer~ which they must expect. from the passage the amount authorized to be appropri­ ing from aggression. It will cheer their of this measure. I predict that with its ated. I hesitate to suggest the amount. hearts. One of your witnesses before passage the armed forces of this Repub­ I have not studied the necessities of the the Foreign Affairs Committee, I believe, lic will be marching into actual battle occasion sufficiently to warrant my pass~ reminded the committee that three­ before any other more formal declaration ing a definite judgment upon it. I un~ fourths of victory comes from morale of war is made by Congress. derstand one suggestion was made for and, further, that the best trained, the I realize that sentiment in this Nation _ $2,000,000,000. Some might say $3 , 000,~ most hard-bitten army in the world, can­ is overwhelmingly in favor of helping the 000,000 would be better, some $4,000,- not go on with its suffering and its fight­ British Empire. But let me implore you 000,000; but that there should be some ing for more than 2 or 3 months unless that there are ample ways of giving aid limit I believe to be true. the morale of the people back home is to her cause without either going tci war Coming back to the time limitation, I sound. So I look for immediate benefit or declaring a national policy which will have heard it suggested by men who are to accrue under the terms of a bill of inevitably lead to war or enacting legis­ very, very serious, very, very sincere, that this sort from the standpoint of morale. lation which strikes at the foundation of the time limitation would not actually be We must not underrate this by any our Republic. effective as provided in this bill, for as means. It is of enormous importance at There is a way of helping a friend other the result of other provisions in the bill this hour. than by committing suicide. the President of the United States might Think how it will be greeted by the I cannot believe that the Members of shortly before the expiration of the time people of Great Britain, Canada, and Congress understand the far-reaching indulge in a large number of commit~ Australia. Think of the people of importance of this measure. ments or contract obligations, looking to~ France. Think of the people of Belgium, It is far more than a mere act of Con­ ward an actual continuation of the exer~ Holland; yes, and in Norway. Their gress. It is a declaration of national and cise of the power after the 2-year limi~ hopes will rise; there will be some light foreign policy announced jointly by Con­ tation has expired. I have heard many upon their horizon. For a time it may gress and the President which far tran­ suggest that possibility. seem faint, but nevertheless there will scends the Monroe Doctrine, or any other It strikes me their apprehensions might be a light ·df hope. national declaration since the Declara­ well be reduced to a minimum if we Mr. Chairman, if we could do two or tion of Independence of 1776. It is evi~ should insert in this bill a very simple three things to this bill such as I have dent that the administration, in recog~ amendment to the effect that there shall suggested, it might bring about some nition of this fact, specially requested be a limit expressed in dollars on the greater degree of unity on the part of that the measure bear the number "1776." amount of contract obligations, or fu­ Congress and the people of the United The measure expressly grants to one ture commitments, the President might States. [Applause.] As we face this man, the President of the United States, make under the terms of this bill. Thus hour of menace how much stronger our the power to determine at his own private you would have a protection, if you feel Government will be if the whole world individual discretion the foreign conduct you need it, against the expenditure of knows that this is the way America feels . of this Nation; to determine at· his own .sums far beyond the ability of our imagi­ [Applause.] It will be healthy primarily private individual discretion who are our nations to comprehend, and the engage­ for us, and after all it is our country friends and who are our enemies; and to ments and commitments which might that we are thinking about. give to those nations he might favor the bind the country-those commitments As I look back over the history of this material resources of this country to an having been made by the leader of the country, and the processes of govern­ unlimited degree. He will have the right country in the field of foreign affairs­ ment under the Constitution of the to do this in any manner he pleases, might bind the country and the Congress United States, I do not believe that a under any conditions he pleases, to any morally for a great deal longer time than bill of this sort spells the end of liberty extent he pleases, and whenever he the 2 years mentioned in the act. in America. I do not believe that. pleases within the time limit set in the I make these suggestions not because Three precious things we Americans measure, if any. I am convinced that they are the last possess, and they cannot be taken away There is no ruler of any nation on word upon the subject but because I from us without our consent-free earth today who would dare assume such believe they are healthy fundamentally. speech, a free press, and free elections. tyrannical powers as are here granted, I do believe they are in line with our in­ Armed with those weapons the American and never in the history of this Republic stitutions; I do believe that if adopted people will COl\tinue to be the master of do we have any record of such unlimited they will result in retaining for the Con­ their destiny. [Applause.] and despotic power having been asked for gress the control of the purse strings; Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 20 or granted to any President or any other and that is the great function of the minutes to the gentleman from Georgia leader, including George Washington, the Congress. Never forget it. It goes be­ [Mr. PETERSON]. Father of our country. yond any other power given to the Con­ Mr. PETERSON of Georgia. Mr. How far, may I ask, can we go in grant~ gress; it lies at the roots; it is funda­ Chairman, I am opposed to this legisla­ ing such despotic powers and still remain mental in our whole system of represent­ tion. A few days ago when this legisla­ a free republic, with a representative form ative government. tion was first being discussed by the of government? I have another reason for suggesting membership I observed that the main "Eternal vigilance is the price of lib~ something of the sort, and it is this-per­ argument seemed to be predicated upon erty." haps I can develop it in this way: As the proposition that this is a peace meas­ If Americans honestly desire to remain practical men we all know that the pas­ ure. I am delighted to note that as the a free and peaceful people, this measure sage of this bill will not bring to Great debate progresses everyone seems to be should never be enacted. Britain, Greece, China, or any other coming around to the candid and frank If we intend to go to war or to change country any material help in the imme­ opinion that this is not a peace measure. our foreign policies or to alter our form diate future. We know that while orders This is no defense measure. of government, we should be frank and may be made for additional supplies on It is a measure of aggressive warfare. candid with those we serve. We should top of orders already registered in our If it is enacted into law and its provi- not attempt to fool the people of this industrial plants, it will take 8, perhaps sions are really made effective, the inev- Republic with hypocritical pretenses. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE · 543 If this Nation believes there is a power fully rebelled when they set up this Re­ ence and to again .affirm our allegiance abroad in the world today which threat­ public. to the King of England." ens the life of this Republic and. which If we definitely adopt the principle of There should be a preamble to this must be destroyed in order that we sur­ national conduct as set forth in this legis­ bill. vive, this Congress and the people of this lation, soon we will find ourselves occupy­ It should read as follows: Nation should meet the challenge ing one of the most despised and inde­ When in the course of human events, 1t squarely and frankly. We should openly fensible positions of any nation in the becomes necessary for one people to reunite declare war against that power and throw history of all the world. the political bands which have once con­ every ounce of the manpower and mate­ As weak and disunitEd colonies, we nected them with another, and to renounce rial resources of this Republic into the among the powers of the earth the separate dared rebel against the rule of empire, and equal station to which the laws of na­ fight to destroy the enemy. announce our declaration of independ­ The puny arguments of those who ture and of nature's God entitle them, a de­ ence, succeed in our revolution, and cent respect for the opinions of mankind re­ would have other men of other nations set ourselves up as a free and sovereign quires that they should declare the causes fight our battles and die in our stead in people. which impel them to this renunciation. order than we may continue to live and have peace and security hardly become Now that we have achieved our aim Then, those sponsoring this measure the sons of a great republic. and become a proud and powerful na­ should be candid with an enlightened Then, too, let us remember that this tion, we stoop to the puny task of aiding American public and frankly set forth measure does not guarantee the destruc­ a world colonial empire to retain its status the reasons for such action, just as our tion of any power which might threaten as sovereign ruler of hundreds of mil­ forefathers did in the Declaration of our safety. Neither does it give any as­ lions of subjected peoples, simply because Independence of 1776. surance whatsoever that should the another rising power challenges its right If we are to furnish the sinews of war powers we are to aid be triumphant they to do so, and upon the flimsy excuse that by which the British Empire is to be kept will destroy the powers that threaten the this course is necessary in order that we alive we should enjoy the trade benefits life of this Republic. may remain free. [Applause.] of the Empire. We had no voice in the origin of this First, Britain asks only for our ma­ You men of the South, if you are to war. terial assistance, but, mark my words, if give the ·blood of your sons and the We have no voice in its conduct. she achieves the purposes for which she blood of the sons of your cotton farmers And we have no assurances of future avowedly entered this war, it will be only of the South in order to maintain the safety at its conclusion. a few short months before she will de­ colonial status of the subjected cotton It is most distressing to me to note mand our manpower. farmers of the British Empire in Egypt that there are those who are foolish Mr. Chairman, this legislation is based and India, you should demand in return enough to honestly think that this Re­ upon the proposition that the future some assurances that the living stand­ public can entice other nations-colonial peace and security of our country is · de­ ards of those cotton farmers are going empires-into fighting our battles and pendent upon the success of Great Brit­ to be raised by the British Empire so as preserving our Republic while our people ain in a war of its own making, and upon to save your own constituents and your remain safe from the dangers of battle the safety and preservation of the British own people from the starvation that now and warfare and bloodshed and death. Empire. confronts them. When in all the history of mankind has If this be true, we are no longer a free You men of the North, if you are going such a thing happened? people capable of maintaining our free­ to give the blood of your sons and the Never! dom in a world of greed and tyranny, blood of the sons of your merchants and If you now believe that the British. Em­ even though as a weak and a new nation manufacturers in order to maintain the pire, even with our material resources, our foreparents were able to gain· and trade routes and the markets of the will waste its manpower and spill the maintain their freedom in such a. world world for the British Empire, you should blood of its subjects in the cause of pre­ a century and a half ago. likewise demand in return that you be serving our Republic and making secure Mr. Chairman, I do not subscribe to given access to these trade routes and our homes and our people, I implore you such a fatalistic doctrine or admit such these markets on an equal footing and an to disillusion your mind of this fallacious a weakness, and there are millions of equal basis with all the other component belief before it is too late. other free Americans who share with me parts of the British Empire. Let me read to you a sentence from this faith in our Republic. Are you taking such precautions? You George Washington's Farewell Address There are those in this country, how­ well know the answer. on this vital point: ever, posing as American patriots, who As this wave of hysteria, brought on by There can be no greater error than to ex­ would, in order to save the British Em­ well-designed propaganda, sweeps over pect or calculate upon real favors from na­ pire, destroy this Republic. our country it seems there are those who tion to nation. It is an illusion which ex­ I am reminded of the old story about are willing to give everything to save the perience must cure, which a just pride ought the wolf in sheep's clothing. British Empire and ask nothing in to discard. This legislation, cloaked in the robes return. Mr. Chairman, let us disabuse our of peace, is in its naked form a cowardly If. we accept the principle of national minds now of the false and vain hope declaration of war. [Applause.] conduct as set forth in this measure, we that we have at last found a way in It is clear to me that there are those will, in my earnest opinion, do a very which we can use the British Empire to who know that the American people do foolish thing. fight our battles. not want to go to· war. They know that Mr. Chairman, there is but one course I am of the definite opinion that the· the American people do not want their for us to safely pursue. reverse is true. I firmly believe that the sons to die on the far-flung battlefields We should keep America for Americans. British Empire is using us as her tool to of Europe and Asia and Africa for the We should leave Europe, Asia, and fight for the preservation of her Empire cause of world empire. So with shrewdly Africa for the people of Europe, Asia, and and the retention of her subjected colon­ designed legislation such as this they Africa. ies in Africa, Asia, Egypt, India, and -pose as angels of peace even as they In a period of normalcy the proposition throughout the world. swiftly drag us down the dark and of policing the world was well considered The war that is being waged in Europe bloody pathway of warfare and destruc­ in every nook and corner of this Republic, today is a war of colonial empire. It is tion. and this proposition, which was so well the age-old fight of kin against kin and We must arouse ourselves from their set forth in the League of Nations pro:. family against family, a fight that has designing and deceitful spell before it posal, was overwhelmingly rejected by been going on in Europe for thousands of is too late. this Republic. years and from which our forefathers This measure is correctly numbered In this hour of excitement, confusion, fled when they sought a haven of peace 1776-but it does not bear the appropri­ and propaganda we will · do a very foolish in the New World. It is a fight of ate title. thing if we now retrace our steps and tyranny against tyranny-tyranny It should be an act entitled "An act to clasp to our bosom that which discretion against which our forefathers success- renounce the Declaration of Independ- bids Us cast a way. 544 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRuARY 4 Do not mistake me. I am not antago­ Mr. VREELAND. Mr. Chairman, this ing his mind later. It gives him the right nistic to the British Empire. I am sym­ week the Congress of the United States is, to use taxpayers' money to purchase any­ pathetic to their cause. But there are I believe, called upon to decide one of the thing he desires, and to lease, lend, sell, many ways we can aid her without ·be­ most vital issues since the World War. If or give away such articles, without limi­ coming physically involved in her quarrel. a curtain could only raise so that the fu­ tation. It gives him the right to use any There are many ways of aiding her ture could be viewed, it would be so much amount of money he desires to carry out without setting up a dictatorship in this easier to determine our actions, but, un­ the provisions, and again, without limi­ Republic such as we have never before fortunately, none of us can foretell what tations. It gives him the right to divulge dreamed of either in peacetime or in war. fate has in store for this and other coun­ any secrets of the Army or Navy, with­ We of today to whom the reins of free tries of the world. The only basis left for out limitation. There is nothing to pre­ government are entrusted have a sacred determining what action to take is a vent stripping us of vital defense neces­ obligation to perform for our own people thorough knowledge of the present status, sities, or from preventing the countries and our posterity, in addition to any a historical background, a practical esti­ we helped from turning on us with the friendship which we may bear for any mate of the situation, and an honest ac­ very articles we gave them. France re­ other nation or empire. tion according to the dictates of your ceived many articles of war from the We have a sacred trust which we should conscience, free from partisan or hysteri­ United States; those articles are now in not betray. cal bias. I do not believe partisanship or the hands of Germany, and what is there In our attitude toward the war now personal feelings should enter into a sub­ to prevent Germany from forcing France raging across the waters we should by all ject where the lives of American youth to use them against us at a later date? means maintain religiously a national and even the American people and the If this bill is to help England alone, why policy of neutrality. future of our country are at stake. The does it not so specify? Is there anything It is our only safe course. public may be swayed by propaganda and to prevent an expeditionary force being Listen to the advice and warnings of hysteria, but, after all, they do not vote sent to Siam or any other country, or the Father of Our Country. He spoke in Congress. It is left to us, at whose from aiding some country heretofore not words of ·wisdom mellowed by hard ex­ door the blame will fall-and may the mentioned? How do we collect for the perience. great God above guide us in our delibera­ goods so loaned-by use of arms and I know that these words will be read tion so that we may not be the cause of against our own manufactured products in this chamber on February 22, but I the loss of the lives of our friends and in the hands of another? fear it will then be too late, so with your their children, or the altering in any way If this bill is to aid Britain, why not permission I will read to you now a few of the free, democratic form of govern­ just a repeal of the Johnson Act? We short sentences from his Farewell Ad­ ment which has made this country the have been told that all she needs is dress: greatest in the world. credits, arms, and ships-not men. Why Observe good faith and justice toward all There is no question or doubt in the the subterfuge? The people of the nations; cultivate peace. and harmony with minds of everyone, whether justified or United States, by a mild form of hys­ all. Religion and morality enjoin this con­ not, that the administration has made teria, brought about by clever propa­ duct. • • • statements, commitments, and commit­ ganda, have been so interested in the The nation, which indulges toward another ted acts which have at this point placed outcome of the war in Europe they have an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, the United States in a position of being overlooked the common danger to all of is in some degree a slave. • • • us and to the democracy in which we Against the insidious wiles of foreign in­ favorable to the ultimate success of Eng­ fiuence-1 conjure you to believe me, follow­ land and the defeat of the so-called Axis live. It has been said "if we are going citizens-the jealousy of a free people ought Powers. Because of that foreign policy, to surrender our democracy before we to be constantly awake; since history and ex­ it is now for the purpose of self-preserva­ start, why fight for it afterward?" perience prove, that foreign influence is one tion that we do all in our power to aid America should awaken to its own af­ of the most baneful foes of republican gov­ and assist Great Britain. Just how far fairs and a common danger before it is ernment. • • • that policy can be carried out without in­ too late. The great rule of conduct for us, in regard volving this country or hazarding the de­ Congress is the representative of the to foreign nations, is, in extending our com­ mercial relations, to have with them as little fense of our shores is problematical. Not people and answers to the people. Con­ political connection as possible. • • • only has this Government given freely of gress has been given the right by law Why forego the advantages of so peculiar defense materials, which included ships and the Constitution to determine what a situation? Why quit our own to stand of war, but also many derogatory state­ and where moneys of the taxpayer should upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving ments have been made and many threats be spent. It has the right to declare our destiny with that of any part of Europe, issued against the Axis Powers. Maybe war. The people of the United States entangle our peace and prosperity in the the Chief Executive has knowledge he has last fall expressed their confidence in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, honor, or caprice? • • • not conveyed to Congress, or maybe he American system of government by de­ There can be no greater error than to ex­ has been motivated by some personal rea­ manding Congress stay in session when pect, or calculate upon real favors from na­ son. He has not said, and we can only the President wanted to send them tion to nation. It is an illusion which ex­ guess. home. It is a government by the people, perience must cure, which a just pride ought We have been told the bill being con­ and not by one man, regardless of . who to discard. sidered today, H. R. 1776, labeled as the or how smart he may be. Why, then, lend-lease bill or the aid-to-Britain bill, should Congress now delegate all of its Mr. Chairman, let us not be swept off is vital to carry out the administration's powers and rights to one man? H. R. our feet in a moment of tender sympathy foreign policy, and vital to the success of 1776 in its present form does that. for a bleeding friend. Let us not act England. In other words, we are to pre­ · I feel the people of my district elected hastily in announcing a new national sume this bill underwrites the defeat of me to represent them, and not in the doctrine which bids fair to plunge this the Axis Powers. Yet, on perusal of the face of a critical period pass the respon­ Nation into bloody war. legislation we find the only change it sibility to someone else. I am ready to "Discretion is the better part of valor." makes in present law is the extension of do the job to which I was elected and "Let us be discreet." Government credit to a foreign power, remain here with courage enough to face Regardless of our personal emotions, if and gives to the President powers to de­ the issue. The lives of the people of my we remain true to the principles of free cide to which country such aid shall be district are at stake, and I am willing to government and continue, even as the given, together with a restatement of take the responsibility. I hope they are founders of this Republic did, to place rights the President has either assumed with me. our trust and faith in the aid of the God or had the legal right to do. Can this be May America awake before it is too who made us, we shall continue a free only presented as a vote of confidence in late. people. It will be impossible for any na­ the President? Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield now tion or combination of nations to over­ As I read this legislation, the President to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. come us. [Applause. J of the United States is given the right RUTHERFORD]. . Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield now and power to determine which country Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Chairman, to the gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. he wishes to help, without limitation to in the small space of time allotted me I VREELAND]. which it may be or to prevent his chang- will attempt set forth my views on the 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE "545 pending bill, H. R. 1776. To my mind powers transferred to the President Staff and the Chief of Naval Operations this is the most important piece of legis­ therein that there would arise such a hue about the disposition of war materials, lation that has come before the Congress and cry against it from all parts of the but under this amendment, he is not in many years. If it is passed as is, with­ country that would make the vocal pro­ bound by their judgment. After such out any curtailing amendments, it is not test against "packing the Supreme consultation, even though both the only going to have a vital effect upon the Court" seem as the noise of a toy pistol Chief of Staff and the Chief of Naval Op­ present economy of the country but it to that of our largest cannon. erations disapproved of such transfer, will affect it for years to come and may . The people of our country are being the President could do as he pleased, and change our present governmental set-up fooled. The administration is taking ad­ there would be no way to stop him. absolutely. I want to help England to vantage of the feelings of the people to Again, the Chief of Staff and the Chief of the limit now, but in doing so I do not aid Britain to put over the most vicious Naval Operations are human. They know want to vote for any measure that will bill that was ever presented by the New that they are under the commander in make it possible to do our own United Deal. Like all New Deal bills the objec­ chief. They know that the commander States harm, or that will make it possible tive may be good, but the means of ob­ in chief can remove them if they do not to change our democratic form of govern­ taining that objective are so vicious and think his way. ment without the people of the country unnecessary that for the best interests of Mr. Chairman, the more I read this bill being informed of such proposed change. our country the bill in its present form and the more I think of the powers it will John Stuart Mill wrote in 1860, as should be voted down or be greatly transfer to the President the more I am follows: amended. convinced that this bill should not be A people may prefer a free government; We all want to help England to the ut­ passed. As I said before, if Congress but if, from indolence, or carelessness, or termost and as quickly as possible, but passes this bill, even with the time limit cowardice, or want of public spirit, they are in so doing it is not necessary for Con­ written in, it may be doing something unequal to the exertions necessary for pre­ gress to abdicate its powers and make the far more drastic than merely abdicating serving it; if they will not fight for it when President a virtual dictator. You can call during· an emergency. It may, and I it is directly attacked; if they can be de­ this bill a lease-lend bill or an aid to think it will, write the finish of our pres­ luded by the artifices used to cheat them out Britain bill, but no matter by what name of it; if, by momentary discouragement, or ent form of democratic government. But temporary panic, or a fit of enthusiasm for you call it, it is still a vicious bill and say the proponents of this bill, you say an individual, they can be induced to lay confers dictatorial powers upon the that you want to help England, and they their liberties at the feet of even a great man, President, and once he gets the power infer that the only way that you can help or trust him with powers which enable him conferred upon him by this bill, you can England is under the provisions of this to subvert their institutions-in all these rest assured that he will never give them bill, and by no other method. Such an cases they are more or less unfit for liberty; up without a real fight. By virtue of the idea is preposterous. We can help Eng­ and, though it may be for their good to have money he controls for the purposes of land, and we can do it without Congress it even for a short time, they are unlikely W. P. A., the C. C. C., the N. Y. A., the abdicating any of its powers, and without long to enjoy it. A. A. A., and other functions of the making the President a dictator. Before voting on this proposed bill, Government he controlled the elections The minority members of the Foreign it would be to the advantage of every in 1936 and 1940, and if he obtains the Affairs Committee and the gentleman Member of this body to read and reread powers granted in this bill he will have a from South Dakota [Mr. MuNDT], a mem­ the statement I have just read and let it strangle hold upon industry that will be ber of that committee, have suggested soak in. Let us look back over the past almost impossible to throw off in the methods by which it can be done and 8 years and see what has happened. In future. All of these powers together with done effectually. Let us give Britain 1933 and 1934 Congress, under the plea of his power over the credit of the country $2,000,000,000, if necessary, and let her "great emergency," gave tremendous pow-· makes it possible for him or any other buy what she needs, and give her priority. ers to the President upon his promise to New Dealer to perpetuate themselves in Such a method is simple, direct, and ef­ do away with unemployment and all power indefinitely. Therefore, I say that fective. It would allow England to run other ills that were besetting the country, by passing this bill we virtually make the her own war as she deems best, and we yet, in spite of all of the promises given, President a dictator and as much as we would not become involved in it. none of them were ever fulfilled; and, want to aid Britain we should not be in­ The people of this country do not want notwithstanding the piling up of our na­ veigled into passing this bill just because war, and they have said so for months. tional debt by over $30,000,000,000, 9,000,- it comes to u.s with high-sounding names If we pass H. R. 1776 it will not only 000 people were still unemployed and arid for excellent purposes. make the President the dictator of our none of his experiments in governmental Again, the amendments suggested by own country, but it will make him the matters made any permanent prosperity. the majority of the Foreign Affairs Com­ virtual director of the war for England. None of these tremendous powers have mittee are no protection whatever. The He can tell England what to do, and if ever been transferred back to Congress. 2-year limitation is of little value for in she does not do it his way, he can with­ Now, under the guise of national de­ 2 years the President can make such dis­ hold all help. That surely would not be fense and aid to Britain the President positions of our materials, and so forth, aiding Britain. Let us give England real presents this bill asking for more power as would make an extention of time un­ aid by giving her the money so that she than was ever wanted by or given to any necessary. Think of the tremendous can use it as she likes, and let her run her other President in time of peace or war. sums that we have already authorized for own war her own way. In looking back over the past 8 years we ships, guns, tanks, airplanes, and other The proponents of this bill are saying see that every move of this administra­ war materials. If this bill is passed, all that we must pass this bill at once in tion has been toward State socialism, and of these would come under the immedi­ order to aid Britain. That in 90 days in the passage of this bill I believe that ate control of the President and he could England will be overrun. That there is we will have taken almost the last step do with them as he deems fit. a terrible crisis. All such talk is mere toward that end. Have we, the people of The amendment suggested in para­ balderdash. If we pass this bill this this country, at last reached the point graph (2) of article 3, which is as follows: week it will not give England one ship, where we prefer a free government but But no defense article not manufactured one airplane, one gun, or tank more than from carelessness or indolence cir cow­ under paragraph 1 shall in any way be she is getting today, unless the President ardice are unequal to the exertions neces­ disposed of under this paragraph, except gives away war materials of ours which sary for preserving it? Are we in a panic after consultation with the Chief of Staff we need so much today. The passage of or are we in such a fit of enthusiasm for of the Army, or the Chief of Naval Opera­ this bill will put us actually in war, and the President that we are willing to lay tions of the Navy, or both- if we get in, we do not know how long we our liberties· at his feet and trust him are empty words, because it does not will be in it nor how much money it will with powers which will enable him to sub­ prevent, in any manner whatsoever, the cost. We do know that we will be drained vert our institutions? I think not, and I disposing of any of the war materials­ to the limit, both in money and men. We am sure that if the people of our country some $27,000,000,000-which Congress will exhaust all our resources and become were thoroughly familiar with the provi­ has already authorized. Again, the easy prey for those countries who remain sions of this bill and with the tremendous President could consult the Chief of out of the conflict. LXXXVII--35 546 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 If we get into this war and Russia and side of any country he thinks we should­ note in his address any inconsistencies, Japan sit on the side lines, as they. have be allied with, and to run our entire war any departure from the policies which been doing and which they will continue effort without consulting Congress as to he formerly enunciated, it perhaps is to do, notwithstanding all of their seem­ anything he decides to do. due to the fact that consistency is not a ing war-like talk, until this war is over, May I at this time quote from George jewel, and that a man does not have to we will have a much harder time defend­ Washington: continue to make mistakes because ne ing ourselves against either than if we Excessive partiality for one nation and ex­ previously made one. But the gentle- . stayed out of the war and continued to cessive dislike for another cause only thOse man always has been in favor of the build up our own defenses. Let us help whom they actuate to see danger only on one decentralization of power, and I know England; yes. Let us do it now, and in side, and serve to veil and even seclude the that when he advocates the passage of such a way as will not involve us in this arts of influence on the other. this bill with limitations he does not war. Let us aid England, but let us do The lend-lease bill is a bill to make the mean there should be permanently it in such a way as will not bring a dic­ President dictator of the United States, lodged in the· executive branch of the. tator to this country and change our and hence its right name is the dictator Government, and particularly in the democratic form of government. Let us bill instead of the lend-lease bill. Chief Executive, any powers with which then, as soon as possible, build up our May I ask you, Members of Congress, the Congress is vested under the Con­ own defenses to such a point that when one question? Now, when a nation is not stitution. For that reason he advocated this war is over, no matter who wins, we officially at war, should Congress give a time limitation on this bill. As I un­ will be in such a strong position that no official dictator powers to this President, derstand it, he also conditioned his sup­ country will dare attack us. If we do or any other President, such powers as port of tne bill upon a proposed amend­ these things, we will have saved democ­ were never enjoyed by Washington, Lin-· ment which would place a limitation on racy for the world. coin, or Wilson? President Roosevelt the amount to which the President might Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield to claims he must have this power for him­ commit this country, to two or three or the gentleman from Ohio [Mr.. Mc­ self because time is too short to allow four billions of dollars. He said, in sub­ GREGOR]. Congress to act. At no time in the pres­ stance, and it is right, fundamentally, Mr. McGREGOR. Mr. Chairman, . ent crisis has Congress given any indi­ that the Congress may not share execu-'. may I call your attention to the address cation of unwillingness to act and to act tive powers with the President. By the of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt swiftly in helping those who oppose same token, under the Constitution the at Chautauqua, N.Y., on August 14, 1936, aggression. President cannot or should not under and I quote: In fact, Congress remained in session our form of government share legislative We can keep out of war if those who watch and on the job after the President sug­ . powers with _the Congress. [Applause.] and decide· have a sufficiently detailed under­ gested· we go home. There is no excuse· This is especially true in respect to the standing of international affairs to make cer­ whatsoever for asking Congress to sur­ . powers to coin and regulate the value of tain that the small decisions of each day do render its constitutional powers, espe­ money and to make appropriations which. not lead toward war and if, at the same time, . are delegated to him by the terms of this they possess the courage to s.ay "No" to those cially when the very struggle in which W3 hope to help is aimed at the destnic­ . bill. - . . who selfishly or unwisely would -let us go . I hope that no one will vote for . this to war. · tion of one-man government. The authority which President Roose­ bill upon the premise that there can be I say to you, ladies and gentlemen of velt asks is practically unlimited. The written . into this bill in one simple the House, that we of Congress are those effect of the bill would 'be not only to dis­ amendment a limitation of the powers individuals· who . should have the infor­ card the Neutrality Act and the Johnson which we liave .already granted the mation that will give us the understand­ Act but also to pla_e in the hands of the Executive, not only to coin and regulate ing of the international affairs, so that President the power to carry this Nation money but to coin and appropriate a vast we might give to the people back home into any war he chose. By the terms of amount of money which might be used, true representative government. I call this bill he could give away our entire in addition to any limitation put in this upon the leaders of this admini~tration Navy, the whole equipment of our Army, bill, through the medium of the Federal and of this Congress to submit to this and every airplane we possess. He could Reserve System of the Reconstruction body that information and quit forever acquire war materials anywhere in the Finance Corporation, the Export-Import the secret-chamber meetings of a select world and give them to any country he Bank, or the Commodity Credit· Corpora­ few. wished; as well as being able to give away tion. It is estimated that the President, . In my campaign a few months ago­ any amount of our own commodities. under existing law, can issue credit and and I am sure it was like the campaign No cry of needed aid to Britain, no appeal currency aggregating over $14,000,000,000 of you all-! learned from my people that to national unity, should be permitted to without coming back to Congress for a they want three things: Fi-rst, peace; disguise the true results of this bill, which single iota more authority than he al­ second, a strong defense program; and, would be the abandonment of our tra­ ready has. So gentlemen should not fool third, a decentralization of power. In ditional form of government. Even Eng­ themselves for a moment that they are endeavoring to be a true representative land, battling for her very life, has not going to curtail any powers of the Presi­ of my people and in order to carry out to any such extent surrendered her dent in this bill by putting in a limitation their desires, I am opposed to H. R. 1776, democracy. that he shall not commit the taxpayers under this bill to over $2,000,000,000. The the so-called lend-lease bill-a beautiful We can, and we must, extend full aid label-which gives the impression that it money which we have authorized the to those who are fighting aggression, if Reconstruction Finance Corporation and would empower the President only to only for our own defense; but we cannot, lease or lend war equipment to Great other loan agencies to raise is not limited we must not, abandon our own free gov­ by this bill. They are given the specific Britain and get this equipment, or its ernment in the process, nor is it neces­ equivalent, back after the war. authority in other legislation to make sary that we do so to make our help these loans and establish credits for the My friends, this bill goes much further effective. It is my sincere hope that this purposes of this bill. than that. It authorizes the President, Congress will examine this bill and will Altogether it is estimated that· the without consulting Congress, to have refuse to vote American democracy out United States arsenals, shipyards, and President can raise about $14,000,000,000 of existence. without further authorization. So Con­ factories make defense goods for any Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 7 gress in this effort will not control the country whose defense the President, not minutes to the gentleman from Michi­ Congr-ess, deems vital to our defense; to purse strings which. would otherwise con­ gan [Mr. WOLCOTT]. trol the powers which the President may sell, transfer, lease, lend, or otherwise dis­ Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Chairman, I do exercise under this bill. pose of any such defense articles; to take not know of any more unpleasant task a Reference has also been made to the payment, or no payment, for such goods; man could undertake than to attempt to fact that the passage of this bill would to spend any amount of money, the peo­ disagree with my good friend and worthy bolster the morale of those who are al­ ple's money, if you please, for defense in colleague, and perhaps distant relative, legedly fighting our war. ·Is -Great Brit­ any way the President, not Congress, sees the gentleman from New York [Mr. ain fighting our war? If so, as has been fit. In short, the bill gives the President WADSWORTH]. He was peculiarly inter­ repeatedly suggested on this floor, then virtual power to take us into war on the esting this afternoon, and if I seem to we should not be quibbling about either 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 547 billions or blood, but we shouid have been cherish so deeply. Our objective is the is the victor. Remember she will be the in there a year ago. It is cowardly, it is same. victor, and not us. It will be her vic­ humiliating to the people of America to In my opinion, no course we could take tory-not ours. She may say this was believe that Great Britain is fighting our is bulletproof against what may happen. your war, we fought it for you; so now war and at the same time have our Sec­ One person's conclusion may be just as we will write the peace pact. What as­ retary of the Treasury take the stand good as another. The only thing we can surance have we from her that this would before the Committee on Foreign Affairs do is to reach a final decision based upon not be her course? Will her contracts on and say that Great Britain should be our information, our past experience in the conclusion of this war, assuming that made to pay for everything she gets from life, and what we know of nations from she wins, be more likely to produce se­ us. If that be so, then we are subject to recorded history. curity and peace for us than they were the charge of being shylocks and ingrates. It is apparent that some of us believe the other time? If not, we had better How about the morale of the people of England today is fighting our war. proceed cautiously. Has she learned America? With all of this uncertainty, ethers of us take the opposite view, anything from the other wa:·? Up to with all of this desire for peace, with which is my view. If England is actually date, we have heard nothing to indicate all of the claims made for this legisla­ fighting our war, are we not cowardly in that she has, and before plunging into tion, that it is at least a step toward hiding behind her skirts and saying, in this vortex should we not have some as­ war, can we not bolster our morale, can substance, you do the fighting and we surance from England of what her course we not guarantee that there shall be no will furnish the materials? We want you will be when and if she wins? We have trespass on the constitutional guarantees to expose yourselves to danger while we taken on a tremendous job of looking of the freedom of speech, the freedom smugly sit in safety and hand you the after the Americas. Should she not of the press, and the freedom of elec­ guns to use. I do not believe that is guarantee to help us if we now help her? tion, by letting Europe know once and for America's way. No; England is fighting Should she not, if we are going to help all that we stand independent as a na­ her own war. There is not a Member in her now, guarantee to help look after our tion-not isolated economically, not iso­ this House who does not genuinely sym­ interests in the Orient, and should she lated among the nations of the world pathize with the cause of England today. not tell us today that she will, if neces­ so far as our desire to help them solve I think that 98 percent of the American sary, oppose Japan in the Orient, to help their problems, but let the people of the people feel the same. Our people all protect our interests and, again, should United States know that the President condemn Hitler and all he stands for. I she not give us some assurance that she meant what he said, that each and every think that they all want to help England will cooperate in trade after the war? one of us meant what we said, when we just as much as they can without imper­ I think we had better stop, look, and solemnly promised that no single drop iling the security of our own country. listen before we pledge the lives of our of American blood would again be shed Newspapers say she is now getting 90 per­ manhood, the homes of our people, the on the battlefields of Europe or Asia. cent of our combat-plane production, tangible property of our people in a cause . [Applause.] besides an abundance of other materials. that is today surrounded by so much un­ The CHAIRMAN. The time of the I believe that England, as well as all certainty. Loan her money, yes; but gentleman from Michigan has expired. other countries, has made some horrible first make her secure its repayment as Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield to mistakes in the past. It is to be hoped long as she or her st.bjects can. I do not the gentleman from Montana [Mr. that they will be avoided in the future. want my taxpayer substituted for the O'CoNNOR] 15 minutes. In my opinion the ground was plowed British taxpayer. Of course, it is claimed Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, on for this very occurrence in the writing that if England wins, we win; but that is the 21st of January I expressed my views of the Treaty of Versailles, which treaty just the question upon which I am try­ on the pending bill. I have but very lit­ I have never heard defended in either ing to shed some light. tle to add to what I then said. Since that end of this Capitol. She wrote a pattern We may be secure from a military at­ time I have listened to some of the evi­ for Europe that would not work. We tack in the future for awhile, but what dence adduced before the Committee on had nothing, or scarcely nothing, to do about an economic attack, and how long Foreign Affairs of the House and have with the writing of that treaty. The will the security last? If this assumption read statements made by many persons great Wilson was disillusioned when he is correct, then what are we doing as the who I thought were reasonably well in­ went to Europe. He found then, as he whole situation presents itself today? Do . formed and as a result I have reached later stated, that it was a commercial we want to try to enforce our policies on ce:rtain additional conclusions. and industrial war. It was not a political Europe and Asia? Do we want to try Before discussing them, however, I war. He tried to avoid the pitfalls and to compel those nations to adopt the want to say this: It is difficult for me to the tragedies that are being enacted in form of Government we want? Are not not go along with the distinguished Europe today but he failed. the governments of Russia, Germany, chairman of the Committee on Foreign I want to take the time of the Mem­ Italy, France, and England their busi­ Affairs. He is my friend. He is courte­ bers of the House for just a moment to ness and not our business? It is our busi­ ous, capable, and patriotic. I know that read what Mr. Wilson said in that speech ness to have and try to protect the form his country comes first with him and I at St. Louis after the close of the war: of government we want; but dare we, by know that he is sincere in his advocacy Why, my fellow citizens, is there any man force, try to compel other countries to of this bill. I take no stock whatever in here or any woman-let me say is there any adopt our views on political matters? the visit of Lord Halifax to his office. I child here-who does not know that the seed By what means would we enforce such of war in the modern world is industrial and contemplated action-by an invasion believe in any conference our chairman commercial rivalry? The reason that the will come out wrapped with the Stars war that we have just finished took place with manpower? How can we hope to and Stripes. was that Germany was afraid her commer­ overcome continental Europe w'th an I also want to pay a compliment to the cial rivals were going to get the better of army of between five and six million men, gentleman who introduced the bill. I her, and the reason why some nations went with the troops we can land in Europe have the great~st faith and confidence in into the war against Germany was that they supplemented by what England can fur­ him-no more sincere and patriotic thought Germany would get the commercial nish? In the last war we had the assist­ advantage of them. The seed of the jealousy, ance of Italy, France, Russia, and Eng­ Member in the House, and might I not the seed of the deep-seated hatred was hot, add that the longer I am a Member of successful, commercial and industrial ri­ land in landing the troops in Europe, and this body the deeper my affection and valry. they were landed on friendly soil. admiration become for its Members. I We must be realistic about this thing doubt if a more sincere, honest, and pa­ And he winds up that statement by and look before we jump. Let us not triotic group could be gotten together in saying: permit our emotion and affection for any one body than the persons who consti­ This war, in its inception, was a commer­ nation to unseat our judgment. George tute the Members of this House, both cial and industrial war. It was not a politi­ Washington said: cal war. men and women. Their only purpose is Excessive partiality for one foreign nation to serve their country. It comes first and Suppose we go ahead and furnish the and excessive dislike for another cause those last with all of them. We differ only in ships, the planes, the guns, or, in one whom they actuate to see danger only on means to preserve our form of govern­ word, materials with which to win this one side and serve to veil and even second ment, our freedom, and everything we war, including the money~. and England the arts of infiuence on the other. 548 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-:HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 We are acting today as the trustees of President sees fit, any, or all of our mili­ Therefore, I want to express myself as the future of our country and of the tary and naval equipment, also the power being opposed to legislation that, in my lives and of the property of the people to acquire and to transfer to the British or opinion, is not only dangerous to our of the United States. Let us be true to any other nation, on a lend-lease basis, all form of government, but likewise danger­ that trust. Remember when this war is military equipment that can be produced ous to the future security of our country. over _pay day is coming. Only yester­ under current production by our indus­ I shall do everything within my power day the Ways and Means Committee of tries with the limitation, however, of the to carry out the national-defense pro­ this Ho1,1se adopted a bill to raise the na­ amount that Congress is willing to ap­ gram the administration has undertaken. tional indebtedness to $65,000,000,000. propriate. The bill also gives the Presi­ I shall continue to give my 100-percent If we go into this war, that will be only dent the power to open the naval bases support to every proposal that I feel will a drop in the bucket. Just who is going and ports to British warships for repair, strengthen our country, but I cannot and to pay for this war? In the end it will and so forth, and if these powers granted will not, by my vote, pass a bill that, to be the persons who have the property in this bill are in conflict with any other me, ignores the will of the American the heavy hand of the assessor can be law, such law is held for naught until ex­ people, namely; to keep us out of this placed upon. Incomes have a way of dis­ piration of this bill when it becomes an war-that puts this Nation on the brink appearing, but the land, the farms, the act. of disaster such as was never known. homes, the goods on the shelves, and the To my way of thinking it strikes the [Applause.] buildings in the cities cannot disappear. heart out of the Neutrality Act. We [Here the gavel fell.] Moreover, let us think of the future were brought here in extra session of Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield again. To my way of thinking, the for­ Congress to pass that act as a safeguard 10 minutes to the gentleman from Illinois gotten man was the ex-soldier. He came to our neutrality and to keep us out of [Mr. CHIPERFIELD]. home and found his job gone. He was war, and after continued and furious Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Chairman, not met with bands. He had to adjust debate for weeks and at a tremendous during the course of this debate on H. R. himself to a condition of taking what he cost to the Government the bill was 1776, we have heard many arguments as could get. If he were so unfortl.Anate as passed. Now we are driving a hole to the merits and demerits of this bill to be injured in body and mind, our through it big enough for a yoke of oxen and will continue to hear more. Every Government was not too liberal with to pass through. Again the last section of phase will be gone into in detail, such him, and, my friends, where we had 1 the bill gives the President of the United as whether this bill is constitutional~ forgotten man before we will have 10 if States, whoever he may be, power to whether any more aid short of war can we get into this war. There will be carry out any authority conferred on him be given Great Britain under this bill than bonuses, pensions, and in the end we by the act through any agency, depart­ is being given now, whether it is a dan­ may lose the thing we are trying to save ment, or officer, as he shall direct. gerous policy to place such vast power in in Europe today, namely, our own de­ We know what the limitations are of the hands of. one man, and so on. It mocracy. We have a big job here at any human being to work. The Presi­ therefore will not be my purpose to dis­ home. When the bust-up time comes we dency of the United States is the biggest cuss this bill in general, but I will confine will have millions of unemployed, and job on earth. Necessarily, whoever the myself to one phase of it, namely, whether then we had better look out. President may be, he must depend upon there can be placed in this bill a reason­ Go back to the cause of the Russian others to furnish the necessary informa­ able and workable limitation of time. revolution and see if that could not have tion on which to act. Of course, he has This may be a very dull subject, but it been avoided had the powers that be not the last word. To whom in these mat­ may not be so dull if we do not get these forgotten to remember. ters will the President look for guidance? vast powers we are giving to the Presi­ Of course, it will be extremely bene­ He will look to Secretary Stimson and dent back again. At least this argument ficial to us if England wins the war, and, Secretary Knox, the chiefs of the Army is confined to the bill. of course, we want to help her if we can and Navy. My friends, I have studied When H. R. 1776 was before the For­ without placing ourselves in a position the evidence and statements of these gen­ eign Affairs Committee a committee that if she sinks we sink with her. We tlemen. Their patriotism and sincerity amendment was adopted attempting to are tied in with her in a financial ·way, I do not question-their judgment I do. place a time limit in the bill. It will be but I am not one of those who believe In extending this power to the President found on page 3, line 23, and reads as that this country cannot survive if Eng­ you extend, by indirection, the power to follows: land loses. I have more faith in the these two men just named. I do not . Neither the President nor the head of any brains and the ingenuity of the man­ want to place in their safekeeping the department or agency shall, after June 30, hood and the womanhood and the re­ future of this country, and the lives and 1943, exercise any of the powers conferred sources of this country than to feel that property of the people of this country. by or pursuant to subsection (a), except to carry out a contract or agreement with such we have to play second fiddle to any na­ I want to say this also: that the man­ a government made before July 1, 1943. tion and that we cannot stand upon our date we received from the American peo­ own feet. ple, including the President of the United The committee amendment, as written, Now, to the bill. The President of the States, was to keep this country out of is absolutely meaningless and ineffectual United States today has plenary powers war. Stimson and Knox did not run for so far as placing a time limit is con­ and authority in all matters concerning office. They did not receive a mandate. cerned. It does no good to limit the exer­ our foreign relations. That is practi­ None of us would be here if we had told cise of the power conferred in this bill cally stated in our Constitution and has the people that we would support legis­ to June 30, 1943, and at the same time to been so interpreted by our Supreme lation that would set up the machinery permit contracts and agreements to be Court, and as Chief of the Army and whereby the Congress would have noth­ entered into prior to that date which Navy the President has tremendous pow­ ing to say about whether we fought or will run indefinitely-5 years, 10 years, ers, as was exercised by President Polk would not fight. I gather from this legis­ 15 years, or more. in 1846, President Harrison in 1888, Pres­ lation that supply ships will be convoyed For example, the President, under this ident Cleveland in 1895, President Mc­ to Europe in some fashion, if necessary, committee amendment, could make a Kinley in 1898, Roosevelt in 1903, Presi­ to get the supplies there. That will start binding and valid agreement immedi­ dent Wilson in 1914, and President Cool­ the shooting, President Roosevelt said, ately prior to July 1, 1943, to furnish idge in 1926. I ·do not want to go into and when the shooting starts the Con­ England munitions for the duration of detail in those matters as they are re­ gress can say nothing more. Therefore, the war. In other words, under the lan­ corded in history. this may be the last time we will .have a guage of the committee amendment, It is sought by the present bill to en­ chance to go on record in this House to there ·is no effective time limit. It pre­ large those tremendous powers to the get this country into war or keep it out tends to place a time limit, which it does executive department, or the President of war. My considered judgment is that riot do, so the amendment is simp1y a of the United States. In this matter, as this bill, if enacted into law, will lay the snare and a delusion. I have said before, we must deal in the foundation for our entry, and that when In connection with my study of this abstract. This bill gives the President England calls for convoys and troops she problem I have consulted with the Legis­ power to transfer to any nation that the will get them. l~tive Reference Service of the Library 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 549 of Congress, and Dr. Ernest S. Griffith covenants and agreements within the That such powers may be exercised until has confirmed my argument. His letter 2-year period, but that the other coun­ (inserting any date that is desired) if such reads, in part, as follows: tries· need not do so. This would in no exercise is necessary to y out a contract or agreement With such a government made After some research and thought we be­ way handicap our aid to England during before July 1, 1943. lieve, with you, that the present wording of the 2-year period. section 3 (c) of H. R. 1776 would not prevent As Secretary Stimson said, one of the By the use of any of these three excep­ the Executive from entering into contracts benefits of this bill would be that it-­ tions three things could be accomplished. obligating the United States to deliver ma­ leaves in our hands the power to determine, First, by the use of the first exception terials for an indefinite number of years to when the munitions are completed, the coun­ we could still definitely limit our aid to come. try which shall receive them, thus to insure any country to June 30, 1943, but would Now let us suppose we eliminate the that this vital decision is made solely in the permit England to have a longer period of exception in the committee amendment interest of the United States. time to pay for what she received. by striking out the words "except to We therefore would be able to furnish Second, by the use of the second excep­ carry out a contract or agreement with all the planes, ammunition, and mate­ tion we not only give England an in­ such a government made before July 1, rials that could be completed within that definite period to pay for what she re­ 1943," and see what effect this would time, but it would prevent our making ceives, but also give the United States the have. This wouU place the definite time commitments for deliveries far into the power to carry out her contracts beyond limit of June 30, 1943, not only on the future. July 1, 1943, by making a definite limit of exercise of the powers conferred on the On the other hand, such a provision time for that purpose. President or the head of any department would permit Great Britain to have Third, by the use of the third excep­ or agency but would also terminate on greater flexibility in paying, either in tion not only would it give the United that date all contracts and commitments cash or equivalent, for the material she States the power to carry out her con­ entered into prior to that time. Under received. For example, we could furnish tracts, if deemed necessary, to a definite this interpretation there would be termi­ Great Britain any agreed number of date beyond July 1, 1943, but it would re­ nated all powers conferred by subsection planes during the 2-year .Period, but un­ quire England to fulfill her side of the (a) of this bill on June 30, 1943. der such a provision she might be per­ contract by the same date. That this interpretation is a correct mitted to pay us for them by delivering My only purpose in this whole discus­ one is coillirmed by personal consulta­ to us a certain amount of strategic mate­ sion is to illustrate that a definite time tion with the Legislative Counsel and rial for our own national defense each limit can be placed on this bill without the Legislative Reference Service of the year for a period of perhaps 5 or 10 destroying its flexibility and purpose. Library of Congress. years. I prefer the 2-year limitation from the If it is the purpose of this Congress to date of enactment, not because a longer put a definite 2-year limit or slightly This could be accomplished by striking date would violate our Constitution, but longer, June 30, 1943, this is the only way out lines 1 and 2 on page 4 of the bill and as a matter of policy. A 2-year period it can be done. inserting in lieu thereof the following would be within the principle expressed Would this seriously hamper the pur­ clause: in the Constitution, article I, section 8, pose of this bill in giving aid to England? Except that the President may after such clause 12, which provides that Congress What would be the result? Simply this: date accept performance by a foreign govern­ shall have the powers- ment of its obligations under any contract Since the United States, in furnishing to raise and support armies, but no ap­ arms and ammunition to Great Britain or agreement made with such government under the said subsection prior to _July 1, . propriation of money to that use shall be and other countries, is only furnishing 1943. for a longer term than 2 years. completed material, it would give the If it is the policy under our Constitu­ maximum- of 2 y~ars to fulfill all con­ The effect of this would be that while tracts. It would prevent us from making we could furnish England aid only up to tion that we should not raise or appro­ contracts that would bind us for a long July 1, 1943, she would have a longer priate money for the support of our own period of years. period to pay for what she received. Army for more than 2 years, then it Now let us look at the other side of this Second, if merely giving England longer certainly seems to me it would be wise picture. Such a limitation would make than 2 years to pay for what she received to place a similar limitation upon giving Great Britain execute her side of the does not give sufficient flexibility to this support to the armies of foreign contract within the same time. This time limitation, a further extension could countries. would prevent huge credits being built be made for the United States to carry Another reason I prefer a strict 2-year up for payment at an indefinite date in out her contracts, entered into before limit is because I think the importance the future. Of course, there is no pro­ July 1, 1943, by the following language: of these vast powers being brought back vision that can be made, even if there is Striking out lines 1 and 2, on page 4, and into the hands of Congress within a rea­ a binding agreement that the contracts inserting in lieu thereof the following sonably short time greatly outweighs are to be executed within 2 years, that clause: any benefits that might be conferred by would prevent a nation from violating Except that (1) he may, until December further extension of time. The danger that agreement if she so desired. 31, 1943, continue ex_1:lcution of the terms of of extending the time limit beyond 2 I have prepared, in the course of this any contract or agreement made with a for­ years is that you simply invite those discussion, three exceptions to the 2-year eign government under the said subsection upon whom the power is conferred of time limit that are restrictive in charac­ prior to July 1, 1943, and (2) he may, without continuing a policy of aid for the maxi­ ter and have given the exact language time limit, accept performance by a foreign mum time limit. government of its obligations under any such Remember this, while you may place that I think would accomplish the pur­ contract or agreement so made prior to July 1, pose of each exception. These, however, 1943. a limit on the time the powers may be are of a technical nature, and I therefore exercised, if it contains such an excep­ feel I do not want to take up the time While I have used the date December tion as is in this committee amendment of the Committee with them, but I will 31, 1943, which would give the United at the present time, the President could include them in my remarks when I ask States an additional 6 months to carry make contracts and agreements that for permission to revise and extend. In­ out her contracts after the authority for would be valid and enforceable for a long cidentally I see by the Washington Daily entering into those contracts had ex­ period of time and Congress could not News of today that new time limit may pired, any date that is thought reason­ repeal such a contract. Once these be placed on aid bill. I sincerely hope able could be inserted. powers are executed into a contract the this is true, and respectfully call the Third, if it was thought desirable that right of Congress to invalidate them is Committee's attention to my suggestions. the United States should have further lost. If such a provision that would strictly time to carry out her contracts, but st111 If this bill works out to be the success limit both sides to performing their cove­ retain a definite time limit beyond June its proponents claim for it, then, of nants and obligations within 2 years, or 30, 1943, and that England should also course, Congress, which is almost in June 30, 1943, would be deemed too se­ complete her contracts within that same continuous session, will be in a position vere, there are three other solutions. additional period, this coUld be accom­ to renew it for such a period as is neces­ First. It could be required that the plished by striking out, on page 4, lines sary, prior to its expiration. We are not United States should fully complete her 1 and 2, and inserting in lieu ther~of: tying the hands of the President. We 550 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 are only insisting that he take the ordi­ The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman me as to the motives and reasons which nary and customary course-to come to from New York is recognized for 1 influence my action. Congress and re est a continuation of minute. Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the powers that have been granted. Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, many Mem­ gentleman yield? The thing we are all concerned with bers have asked me how long we expected Mr. TARVER. I yield to the gentle­ is that Congress retain control over the to sit tonight. If it is agreeable to the man from Pennsylvania. purse and the sword, as provided in the majority, we will stay here until 7 o'clock Mr. RICH. I appreciate the gentle­ Constitution, and that it retain its and adjourn then because of the congres­ man's motive when he says he would not rightful place as one of the equal and sional reception tonight. It is the pur­ impose upon the membership of the coordinate branches of the Government. pose, therefore, not being able to accom­ House because he feels every Member has I sincerely feel that the best way for modate the many Members who want to made up his mind, but I would remind Congress to retain its rightful place is speak tonight, to sit very late tomorrow him that I, too, represent 300,000 people, to have a time limitation in this bill that night. We may stay here until well on and I want my constituents to know how will really be effective. into the night, if it is agreeable to the I feel about this vote. The only way I So far as I am personally concerned, I gentleman from New York [Mr. BLOOM]. can interpret my vote to my constituents am against the bill' in its present form. Mr. BLOOM. I was not in the Cham­ is by explaining it on the floor. This is In committee the minority members ber when the gentleman started to make the case with every Member of the offered about 27 am~ndments, all of his statement. I understood him to say House. which were voted down. If this is any he would like to have us stay until 7 Mr. TARVER. I agree with the gentle­ indication of the way restrictive amend­ o'clock tonight. man from Pennsylvania that the mem­ ments are to be adopted in the Commit­ Mr. FISH. Yes. bership of the House should state on the tee as a Whole, I am sure you can count Mr. BLOOM. That is perfectly satis­ floor their reasons for assuming whatever my vote against the bill. factory to me. That, however, does not position may be theirs in the considera­ THE LmRARY OF CONGRESS, indicate anything about tomorrow. tion of this bill. I was just attempting to LEGISLATIVE REFERENCE SERVICE, Mr. FISH. No. We may have to stay make that point when I was interrogated Washington, February 4, 1941. here pretty late tomorrow. The Speaker by the gentleman. I do not believe, how­ Hon. ROBERT B. CHIPERFIELD, has indicated that such a course would United States House of Representatives, ever, that arguments which may be ad­ Washington, D. C. be agreeable to him. vanced at this late stage of the considera­ DEAR MR. CHIPERFIELD: After some research Mr. BLOOM. It is perfectly satisfac­ tion of the bill will be effective so far as and thought we believe, with you, that the tory, so far as I am concerned. The the influencing of any votes of Members present wording of section 3 (c) of H. R. 1776 gentleman, of course, has not the idea of this House is concerned. would not prevent the Executive from enter­ that we should meet at 11 o'clock to­ Mr. Chairman, this is a solemn hour in ing into contracts obligating the United morrow? States to deliver materials for an indefinite the history of our country. It is not, in number of years to come. It is suggested Mr. FISH. Not at all. my judgment, however, an hour within that your intention to prevent this may be [Here the gavel fell.J which the question of war or peace for brought about by striking out lines 1 and 2 Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield our immediate future is to be determined. on page 4 and inserting in lieu thereof any 15 minutes to the gentleman from That question, as has many times been one of the following three clauses: . Georgia [Mr. TARVER]. said, will be decided not by us but by 1. "Except that the President may after such date accept performance by a foreign Mr. TARVER. Mr. Chairman, I am Hitler; by the war-mad, power-hungry government of its obligations under any con­ not unappreciative of the wealth of elo­ maniac who will attack when and if he tract or agreement made with such govern­ quence and logic which has entered into thinks he can do it successfully. No con­ men· under the said subsection prior to this discussion on both sides of the issue. sideration of moral decency, no mere July 1, 1943." I wish to compliment my colleagues on question of right and wrong, has ever af­ 2. "But this shall not be construed to re­ both sides of the aisle upon the fact that fected his course, and none ever will. quire stipulations for the complete execution There are but two hopes of avoiding con­ by a foreign government, prior to the said in the main they have kept the discussion date, of any of its obligations under any upon a high plane; and yet I hope I may flict with him, and they are either that contract or agreement made under the said be pardoned for saying that however elo­ we shall make ourselves so strong by the subsection prior to July 1, 1943." quent the discussion, however logical it time he is ready to strike that he cannot 3. "Except that (1) he may, until December may be, in my judgment no speeches that hope to strike successfully, or that by fur­ 31, 1943, continue execution of the terms of are made on either side of this question nishing aid to those who are resisting him any contract or agreement made with a for­ at this time are going to influence one today we may make it impossible for him eign government under the said subsection to strike at all. prior to July 1, 1943, and (2) he may, with­ single vote in the House of Representa­ out time limit, accept performance by a for­ tives. There is nothing in the history of Hitler eign government of its obligations under any I have listened carefully to the discus­ to justify anybody believing that his plans such contract or agreement so made prior to sion during yesterday and today, and I for world domination can be thwarted July 1, 1943." have had the privilege of attending many otherwise than by force or by the recog­ The first two of these proposals are de­ sessions of the Committee on Foreign nized ability to use force. A career of signed to prevent, absolutely, any affirmative Affairs. There have been, as I have said, broken promises, of cruel aggression, and action of the United States in connection of inhuman oppression of peaceful people with contracts under the bill after the 2-year eloquent addresses here today, logical ad­ limit; and at the same time to permit execu­ dresses, but so far as I have been able to suggests no hope for the plans of those tion of contracts by the foreign government. discern attention has not been called to who wo.uld pat the beast on the head and The difference is in the form of approach­ any ·new argument which has not already offer no aid to those who are his present the first treats the performance, and accept­ been made either in this hall or in the prey, expecting that when he has de­ ance thereof by the President, as an excep­ press, nor to any argument on either side voured them his appetite will be sated. tion to the prohibition of the section; the It might, of course, be possible for second states a rule of interpretation. with which all of us are not already fa­ The third proposal embodies a modifica­ miliar. It is therefore a question as to America to become an humble satellite of tion authorizing execution on the part of the whether or not a Member of the House at the Reich, a second-l'ate power content United States for a period of 6 months after this time and under these circumstances to recognize the Germans as a superior termination of authority for entering into ought to impose upon the patience of his race, to have them control our national contracts. colleagues by undertaking to advance economy, to allow us such world trade as Sincerely yours, arguments for their consideration. I they might not desire for themselves or ERNEST S. GRIFFITH, state frankly that I would not undertake be in position to serve-to be, in short, Director, Legislative Reference Service. to do it except for this fact: I am here as another Denmark, or Norway, or France, Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Chairman, I the representative of 308,000 American or Belgium. We could, of course, accept yield back the balance of my time. citizens. The vote I shall cast on this economic slavery. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman bill will be their vote, not mine. They I thank God I am one of a people who from Dlinois yields back 1 minute. have empowered me to speak for them on do not voluntarily, or otherwise, put on Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, in that 1 this momentous question, and I feel they the habit of serfdom. There is left for minute I wish to make a brief statement. are at least entitled to a statement from us, therefore, as I see it, only two courses. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 551 Both of them are integral parts of the objective we seek-the defeat of Hitler­ fensive warfare. We are not proposing same policy. ism. That is an objective which today to aid the British because they are The first, and most important, is to must be the goal of humanity itself if "fighting our war." We are determined continue to strengthen our own national civilization is not to be destroyed. to give them all possible aid because our defenses. Whether England falls, or [Applause.] interests lie in preserving a like-minded does not fall, this Nation will forever Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield people who are attacked by our natural be the superior of any country which is such time as he may desire to the gen­ enemies--the totalitarian states, which willing to accept and depend upon the tleman from Oregon [Mr. PIERCE]. would force us also into nazi-ism. It is leadership and the brutality of a man Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Chairman, 6 months definitely to our interest to protect con­ like Hitler. The people of this country ago I delivered a speech in this House, stitutional and representative govern­ do· not want war, but those who inti­ the title of which was, "The United ·ments . . It is definitely to our interest to mate, or state openly, that we must avoid States and the World Today and Tomor­ preserve civil liberties and to protect the war to save our own skins mistake the row." In that speech I carefully set forth rights of individuals. We must not allow resources, the temper, and the courage my views on world affairs, analyzing the cleverly coined, frightening words and of the American people. Our people do Hitler program and picturing the back­ phrases to propagandize us into inaction not want to have to :fight · Hitler, with ground of the present world-wide strug­ and subservience. The attempt to be­ or without allies; but the American gle between opposing governmental fuddle and confuse our people must be doughboy has demonstrated once before ideologies. My discussion was completed countered by a statement of aims and a that he can lick the Hun, and, if neces­ by a speech of September 5, Universal recognition of actual facts and condi­ sary, he can do it again. There are, Service Our Watchword. Today I as-. tions. perhaps, in our vast wealth of national sume that I may speak with the full as­ APPEASEMENT resources, in our great capacity to man­ surance that my constituents are gen­ I said "further appeasement." I wish ufacture war machines and war mate­ erally in accord with the position I took to define that by stating my idea of the rials in the numbers of the millions in those speeches. Our countrymen have appeasement already offered Germany we c~uld, if necessary, place in the field, discussed the world issues and have ar­ by the United States of America. .We rived at almost universal acceptance of have given up the North Atlantic, for more logical reasons for believing that certain facts and agreement upon cer­ we will win if we come in conflict with which the War of 1812 was waged. We Hitler; but I prefer to make my primary tain lines of activity. The only profit­ have been forced to an acceptance of an able discussion at this time is upon the entirely changed economy which was reason for that belief the spirit, the cour­ controverted points in our American pro­ age, the will to freedom of the men and formerly built on world trade. Our world gram. trade has ceased. Surpluses are piling women of America. Since the Congress took its stand on The course of secondary importance up. Agriculture is faced With absolute defense, the picture has grown darker, control-because of Hitler. The wheels is the one we now pursue. It is to aid the shadows have deepened. It saddens the enemies of Hitler who are defending of our industry are turning to produce me to acknowledge that our people now armaments and instruments of death. themselves from his assaults. We owe realize the necessity for training our nothing to the British Empire as at pres­ The production of :materials for the young men in the arts of war. We have satisfaction of the desires of civilized ent constituted. It owes us much, much voted billions to build a two-ocean navy. that it will never repay. I am unable people has largely ceased, and may be We have voted billions to provide neces­ halted altogether. Instead of making to visualize it, with its hundreds of mil­ sary war materials. It is now clear that lions governed against their will, as a motor cars and trucks we are manufac­ we must continue to vote billions upon turing tanks and bombers. We have true representative of democratic gov­ billions of dollars to make and prepare ernment. But it is at least a common­ war materials for those who are alined taken a million boys out of the pursuits wealth of nations which in its governing with our democracy, those nations which of peace into an enforced training for components is closer to us in blood than are today struggling desperately to pre­ the destructiveness of war. Who is so any other people in the world. It is vent the riveting of the chains of slavery foolish as to say that we need have no making a fight which excites the admira­ upon their people. We can now more fear of Hitler; that Hitler has done noth­ tion of the world against wanton, heart­ clearly see the causes of this great catas­ ing to us? less, godless tyranny; and every blow it trophe which is burning up civilizations Hitler has also forced us, the people of strikes, whether it wins or loses, saps the in all other continents-Europe, Asia, the United States, into the realization strength of that aggressor, who will, if, and Africa. It is now possible to outline that we are not a wholly united people. and when he thinks he can do it succes­ the part we probably must play in the We must, indeed, exercise great wiSdom fully, attack us. greatest tragedy ever staged on this to avoid "witch hunts" in the effort to earth. protect our national life and institutions. I am therefore in favor of aid to The President in his speech to the Con­ England, every ounce of aid we can fur­ ARE WE ISOLATED FROM THE CONFLiCT? gress on the state ·or the Nation men­ nish short of sending our own boys to We are not permitted by the circum­ tioned four distinct freedoms to which European battlefields. I am not inter­ stances to consider ourselves isolated our people are entitled-the right of free ested in quibbling over terms, although from the conflict which has already re­ speech, the right to worship God accord­ I feel the British Empire should be re­ acted seriously upon our way of life. The ing to conscience, freedom from want, quired to secure the debt as far as it United States Government is today fac­ freedom from fear itself. These few can, and to use its own resources to the ing greater danger than ever before, not words express the philosophy underlying utmost. But I do not want to tie up that excepting the darkest days of the war be7 our form of government; as we read aid with hampering restrictions. If tween the States. Should Great Britain them we realize that outside interfer­ we are going to help Britain at all, let us yield to the Prussian war machine, then ence ~ith these rights is imminent. We make our aid effective and let the world will come our turn to submit or to fight. are forced to adjust ourselves to a world know that we are going to give it with­ World conditions compel some action order beyond our control. We are deter­ out stint. I do not know whether to do now. We cannot safely drift, awaiting mined to join with those :fighting to so will keep us out of war or not. No­ the outcome of a terrific final struggle, maintain an atmosphere in which we ·can body knows. I believe there is a chance Without aiding our natural allies. We thrive and progress toward better things. it may. But I have absolutely no sym­ are forced to weigh the consequences of pathy with th~ viewpoint that if we try a possible British defeat. WORLD REVOLUTION to appease this madman, this would-be We dread and we fear national in­ The. present war is a world revolution. world dominator, by standing by and volvement in war as a belligerent. We It is not just another war. It is not a allowing Britain to go down, that Hitler cannot secure safety and avoid war by war between nations with imperialistic will then, through gratitude, or for any further appeasement. All the rest of the ideas. It is not a war for trade. Two other reason, refrain from attacking us. world is already an arsenal. We are pro­ different philosophies have met in mortal I am, therefore, supporting this bill. posing to become an arsenal for our own combat-one the Axis Powers believing I may support some amendments-­ protection as well as for the protection that the nation must be everything, the amendments which will not limit the of those of our own kind, those most individual nothing. Their national so·­ aid to be given or make less likely the nearly related to us and fighting a de- cialism forces the organization of the 552 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 entire population for and in the interests situation makes impossible our immunity It cannot be disputed that it is to our in­ of the government, which is an absolute from risk. I believe that the plan now terest that the sea does not pass out of dictatorship. The individual means before us is our proper course of action. the control of Great Britain. nothing. Everyone must live for the I believe it to be most consistent with The surest way of "keeping war out of national government. That is exempli­ national ideals, national aims, and na­ America" is to aid Great Britain, without fied by the condition that now exists in tional safety. stint, to the fullest extent of our re­ Germany where all economic routine is There is just one definite proposal be­ sources. If we deny aid to Great Britain fixed by the government. The money fore the Congress. The opponents of this it is possible that the Axis Powers will paid for service is regarded as a receipt proposal have offered no other construc­ prevail. Then will come the real test for for the purchase of necessary commodi­ tive, comprehensive plan. There is gen­ America. Aid for Britain is our strongest ties. Anything left over must be given eral agreement on the necessity for aid insurance against actual warfare. to the government as a forced loan. Na­ to Britain. Our aims are not contro­ NECESSITY FOR H. R. 177C tional socialism is diametrically opposed verted. The disagreement which con­ to the democratic government under fronts us is over methods rather than I vote for H. R. 1776 with a heavy heart, which we live. We have exalted the in­ aims. The opposition centers chiefly with many misgivings, but with firm c.on­ dividual and rewarded him for things upon expansion of powers granted to the viction that its speedy enactment into law he has done for society. We believe that President and the fear of centralization is essential to the future well-being of our our position in the world today has been and dictatorship. The Congress has been people. Present sacrifice seems to me attained on account of these principles almost too patient with the prolonged better than acceptance of such humiliat­ and ideals. These two philosophies have hearings in committees. The Nation­ ing terms as would be compelled by Ger­ met in mortal combat. A discerning wide debate has come to a close, leaving man victory in Europe. I give some of commentator recently wrote: my other reasons for so voting: before the Congress clearly defined issues. I do not believe we can live in a Hitler­ The Communist experiment failed a long Those who propose solely to lend time ago. Today only three types of govern­ money to Britain would endanger our dominated world and retain our f-orm of ments exist: State capitalism as in Russia, own safety by plunging free nations into government. Should Hitler destroy in­ absolute capitalism as in Germany, and a competitive buying of armaments, dustrial Great Britain, as he has de­ democratic capitalism as in the United States. stroyed other countries; should his dive which would be destructive to plans for bombers destroy a number of the big WILL HITLER INVADE AMERICA? our own defense. In support of the pend­ fighting ships of the British Navy, he I speak often of America instead of our ing bill, the strongest argument appears might force England to her knees. We United States, thus implying that we to me to be the :Lact that, through its­ must remember that England has "fifth accept the fact of unity of the Western provisions, armament efforts would be columnists" in large numbers. These Hemisphere. integrated as we work for our own pro­ brought destruction to Holland, Norway, On this floor, repeatedly we have heard tection and lend aid to Britain. It will and France. Our own country is honey­ the statement, "America cannot be in­ also make possible prompt action, which combed with them. vaded." We are told that . the 3,000 is a first essential in meeting swiftly There can be no question but that, in miles of the Atlantic and the 6,000 miles changing situations. · all conquered Hitler territory the people of the Pacific render continental United AID TO BRITAIN are reduced to real and actual slavery. States safe from invasion. Those who Before discussing provisions of the They will, under Hitler's pressure, pro­ claim it cannot be invaded must explain pending bill, I think it fundamental to duce those things the world wants, sup­ whether we are to abandon our Hawaiian consider some of the reasons for aid to plying them at a price we simply cannot Islands, located more than 2,000 miles Britain in the form of armaments and meet, under our system of protected labor from California in the Pacific Ocean. money. and agriculture. Their laborers have In the law annexing the Hawaiian Is­ been forced to work for the equivalent of l8,nds to the United States-it was ex­ The Atlantic Ocean is sometimes said to be a barrier. It should, rather, be re­ 10 cents a day. With the labor of Europe pressly provided that they Should be re­ garded as a highway. Five hundred at the beck-and-c.all of the Hitler group, garded as a part of the continental and his control of the seas, we would be United States. years ago Europe regarded the Atlantic Ocean as the Ultima Thule, or the utmost driven from the markets of the world, Of course, to anyone who argues that not only for agricultural products but America cannot be invaded, it must at bound or limit. The venturesome sailors of western Europe found that the Atlantic also for industrial products as well. ow­ once be clear that the Philippines must ing to economic pressure and cessation be abandoned to Japan. And what about Ocean was a highway, and that they needed only ships and sails to enable of international trade, I fear the free, Alaska and her fisheries? Alaska has easy, happy days of America have already been a part of the United States for more them to move rapidly over that highway. It was hundreds of years before those vanished for a generation at least. than 70 years. I am willing to admit I shall v~te for the pending legislation that no German-Japanese-Italian force brave sailors used any power to propel those ships other than the wind iself. because I believe that, if all possible aid can land on the shores of New Jersey, or is given to Great Britain, there is a fair capture New York, because we could Now ships by the thousands ride that highway propelled and speeded by oil chance that she will be able to resist the probably annihilate them before the cap­ conqueror. If she succumbs, she will be ture could be made. Those who claim pumped from the earth. With the navy yards of Europe manned treated even more savagely than France. that the United States cannot be invaded When France surrendered, 2,000,000 sol­ should at once define what they mean by by conquered slaves compelled to furnish .the labor; with the Germans standing diers of the French Army went into prison the United States. What about the Pan­ camps in Germany. By terms of the ama Canal? Are we to give that up over those yards forcing that labor, by their loaded guns, to built a fleet faster armistice, those prisoners were to be re­ with the millions it has cost us and the leased and returned to France. They are security it affords us? Are we to aban­ than we can build, the Atlantic Ocean will, indeed, be found to be a highway still held as prisoners, performing en­ don the Monroe Doctrine and allow forced labor in Germany. -European nations to annex and subju­ instead of a barrier. - gate helpless portions of the Western England possesses, and has possessed A HITLERIZED WORLD Hemisphere? It is a well-known fact for years, the finest, largest, and most There can be no revolution or uprisings that there are large settlements of Ger­ effective navy that has ever floated on in conquered lands. Quietly, without mans and Italians strongly entrenched the seven years. It has kept the trade trial, fuss, or feathers, the leaders in any in South America, and they would much routes of the world open to commerce. possible revolution would be liquidated, prefer to have Hitler ideals prevail there. The British Navy has made possible the sent to concentration camps, more prob­ Large groups there certainly hope to see carrying of civilization to the farthermost ably murdered in cold blood by the him conquer Europe. corners of the globe. In case of a German Gestapo. Citizens of the conquered lands victory who would control the English UNIFYING DEFENSE EFFORTS must live the life just as it is laid out for Navy? The English and French de­ them. They must work for the wages I grant that by taking any bold legis­ manded the German Navy after the first fixed by the authorities. They have no lative action we are assuming risks. World War. It is to be expected that the choice. They are moved from place to With or without legislation, the world victors would claim those powerful ships. place according to whims of the dictator. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 553 Conditions within the conquered terri­ President had authority to trade destroy­ The appropriation of the money to tories beggar description. Famine and ers for bases. He has authority_to send make the grant of power effective re­ disease add physical suffering to mental his personal representatives into foreign mains in the hands of Congress. Never torture. countries. These privileges and rights in all history has there been a grant of I fear Hitler. He and his followers of the Presidency are just as much his power with greater certainty that it will have adopted a technique and a method as it is the right of the House of Repre­ · be used to defend our shores than in this of procedure aimed at world conquest. sentatives to originate revenue bills or lend-lease bill. It will, in all probability, As they are using every device of modern for Congress to declare war. keep war out of America. invention, it appears to me now that it will require the full force of the united HOW H. R. 1776 CHANGES PRESENT LAW THE AXIS ALLIES AND THEIR AIMS English-speaking democracies to stay his The pending bill modifies the present On September 27, 1940, an alliance or steady march toward that plan for world existing law in a modest degree only. agreement of some kind, offensive and conquest. This lend-lease bill broadens and es­ defensive, was entered into by Japan, The appeasers urge us to learn to live tablishes the President's right to supply Germany, and Italy. We do not know with Hitler. They say, "Hitler's all weapons of war without immediate cash the exact terms of that alliance, but we right." It is because I vehemently op­ payment therefor. That, I take it, is the do know that it provided that if any one pose such a stand that I shall vote for main object of the bill, to enable him to of those countries became involved in H. R. 1776. I want to give my grand­ finance British, and other, war purchases war with the United States that would children a different sort of a world. I here. There is nothing in it which makes mean war with all of the signers. If, for do not want to compel their acquiescence it easier for him to put us into war. some reason, Japan should commence in the cruel, inhuman heartlessness of England's cash reserve is practically ex­ warfare against the United States-an a Hitlerized world. hausted. They cannot continue to se­ "incident," like' the Chinese war-we cure essential armaments in our markets PRESIDENT'S POWERS CONSTITUTIONAL would expect Germany and Italy to aid in unstinted quantities unless we pass Japan. In short, we would be at war The President's power to put this this bill. I repeat, because I consider the with the Axis Powers. country into war is constitutional and point so important; that the armament If I believed, as some of my colleagues can be changed only by constitutional orders of the United States and Great on this floor seemingly believe, that there amendment. The President is, under Britain must be integrated and noncom­ is no danger in Hitler; if I believed that the Constitution, Commander in Chief petitive. The production and distribu­ we could do business with him after the of the Army and Navy. He can now tion of defense materials must be con­ war guns ceased to boom; if I believed send our ships of war into any sea with­ centrated under one authority. It must that the German people and conquered out the consent of Congress. McKinley be unified. nations could really speak and assert did send the Maine into Havana Harbor The bill does make it easier to assist themselves when the war is over, I prob­ where it was blown up, and was one of the nations now struggling against the ably might have arrived at a different the causes of the Spanish-American aggressor nations. It commits the Con­ conclusion on the pending bill. I am . War. Repeatedly have different Presi­ gress to a definite policy. This is not firmly convinced, however, that should dents sent ships of war, loaded with ma­ party politics. We should not forget Hitler conquer Great Britain it will be rines, into different countries and order­ that, in the Presidential election three only a short time, and very short at that, ed them to do things tbat would have months ago, there was a very little dif­ until he makes demands on the United brought on war, had those countries ference in the positions of the two lead­ States of America which we cannot grant. been able to resist. Remember, our ing candidates on this matter. If it is to be war, he will choose the time marines have been in Nicaraugua, in the Hearings before the House Committee and the place. The choice will not rest Barbary States, in China, and twice in on Foreign Affairs have resulted in rec­ with us. Mexico. They have been there under ommendation of an amended bill. These I am afraid of Hitler with his mecha­ Presidential order to compel those coun­ amendments fix a date limitation on the nized army of millions, now knowing no tries to do certain things which they did grant of powers, provide for frequent re­ other occupation than war. His ruthless under compulsion. All were provoca­ ports by the President to the Congress, Gestapo renders conquered countries en. tive of war, and still war was not require that the President consult Army tirely helpless and forces them to obey declared. and Navy heads before releasing arma­ his slightest command. The Constitution provides, specifically, ments for other nations, and disclaim I cannot see how any thinking man can that all treaties must be ratified by two­ specific authorization of convoys for doubt that Hitler aims at world domina· thirds of the Senate and that only Con­ shipments of ,American war materials tion. That becomes clearer each day. gress can declare war. One of the high sent overseas. Those who counsel appeasement or a officials of the Government recently said In radio and other debates the ques­ negotiated peace should measure his per. to me, "Since I have been in this posi-· tion has constantly been pressed as to formances by his promises. That he tion, there have been repeated oppor­ what additional powers, essential to plans a controlled world economy is clear tunities to have made conditions such British aid, this bill gives the President. from his recent Axis economic confer· that you Members of Congress would That is a proper question which should ence in Rome. have been obliged to declare war." be directly answered. I summarize my President Roosevelt clearly does not discussion by replying that it is my un­ HITLER'S PROMISES want this country to participate in any derstanding that this bill adds to the Here are a few of .them made since war. He could determine upon a_policy President's power only by giving him the 1933: which would make war inevitable, and right to determine the method of pay­ The German people have no thought of make it necessary for the Congress so to ment. Its chief value is to quiet charges tnvading any country.-Berlin, May 17, 1933. declare. of usurpation of power by stating un­ We have no ·territorial demands to make The celebrated Monroe Doctrine was a equivocally the policy of this country. ln Europe.-Berlin, March 7, 1936. Presidential policy and remained such We are granting powers, temporarily, to Germany has neither the wish nor the in· only until we passed the act in the be used for an emergency period. I do tention to mix in internal Austrian affairs or annex or unite with Austria.-Reichstag, May Seventy-sixth Congress declaring it the not regard the powers so sweeping as 21, 1935. policy of the Government. We, our­ those granted to Lincoln during the War We want to live our own life, and we want selves, in the Seventy-sixth Congress between the States. · other people to do the same. We have as­ made the commitment that might compel In the critical months ahead we must sured all our immediate neighbors of the us to fight to maintain the Monroe Doc­ grant authority for making quick deci­ integrity of their territory as far as Ger­ trine. The President has the power to sions. Some one person must have the many is concerned. That is no hollow break off relations with any country. He right to act swiftly to meet the onward phrase; it is our sacred wilL-Berlin, Septem­ ber 26, 1938. could write provocative notes and make thrust of the Axis Powers. The bitter We succeeded in arriving at an agreement provocative speeches, which would en­ debate over this bill, and the delay in (with Poland) which, for the duration of ten danger international relations. The passing it through the Congress are posi­ years, basically removes the danger of any President can make Executive agree­ tive proof that decisions cannot be made clash. • • • We are two peoples. They ments with foreign nations, which are in this Congress speedily enough to save shall · live. One cannot annihilate the far-reaching. No question but that the our English•speaking world. other.-Sportspalast, September 26, 1938. 554 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 . I will not war against women and children. was in the air; not a shot was fired .in clared war on Germany and openly aided I have ordered my air force to restrict_ itself defense. No one knows how many men, the Allies with money and men in the to attacks on military objectives.-Berlin, women, and children were killed and first World War. I do not agree with September 1, 1939. The German Reich and the Kingdom of maimed-perhaps 30,000. The Germans that theory. It is my firm conviction Denmark will under no circumstances resort. officially announced that 300 was the that we were forced into the war of 1917 to war or any other form of violence against total of all casualties. A clergyman by the Kaiser. I recall that in the spring each other.-Article I of pact signed in Berlin, holding services for those killed in the of 1917 the German Government notified May 31, 1939. bombardment said: our Government that it would resume In the spirit long existing of good German­ These memorial services are held for the unrestricted submarine warfare. We Norwegian relations, the Reich government 1,300 persons we personally knew were killed were notified that if we agreed to their notifies the Norwegian Government that she in the Rotterdam bombardment. has no intention, through her measures now terms we might send one vessel each week or in the future, of infringing upon the terri­ For making this statement the clergy­ to Land's End, England, provided the torial integrity or the political independence man was sent to a concentration camp, vessel was painted like a barber pole; of the Kingdom of Norway.-Berlin, April 9, where he is still held. otherwise all our vessels would be indis­ 1940. criminately sunk by their submarines. - We are ready to acknowledge and guarantee WILL FRANCE RISE AGAIN? We know they-made deliberate attempts .these states (tne Low Countries) at all times One of our ·brilliant colleagues, a few to arouse in Mexico a spirit of antago­ .as inviolabl~ neutral territory.-Reichstag, nism toward the United States in the January 30, 1937. days ago on this floor, made the state­ ment that France would probably rise hope of starting another war. We know · What followed these statements by 'again and be a great nation. He seemed that they repeatedly committed acts of ·Hitler is fully well known to everyone. to base that belief upon the fact that sabotage through their "fifth columnists" -Austria was annexed; Czechoslovakia was France was in a better position because in our midst. It was for these causes -conquered. After Munich the fate of she had surrendered and made peace that President Wilson a1:ked for a decla­ Poland was one of the saddest chapters in with the Axis Powers. I cannot see how ration of war. Undoubtedly money in­ all history. The conquest of Norway, a careful student of l)istory can arrive at fluences were also brought to bear to help · ·Denmark, Holland, Belgium, and France any such conclusion. The French­ bring on that declaration of .war, but the 'have followed in order. ·speaking citizens of Lorraine have al­ Kaiser directly provoked it. ·He believed Here is what Hitler told Rauschning ready been taken from their homes and that he was sure to win over the Allies. ·about America: transported to· southern France, where He did not believe that we could arm and I guarantee that at the right moment a most of them will starve. France rise be of any value to the Allies before his new America will exist as our ·strongest sup­ again? She must have different -and victory, set for March 1918. He took a ·porter when we are ready to take the stride fearless leaders if that occurs. What chance and lost. ·into the overseas space. leadership can be developed with the THE PEACE OF VERSAILLES '. Small wonder Dr. Rauschning re­ Gestapo in full swing? The brave indi­ volted against a lying despot and revealed vidual or the patriotic group cannot Repeatedly have I heard men say in the true plans of the inner circle. withstand tanks and bombing planes. this House that the cause of the present · · Only the downfall of Hitler and the The time to save a nation is before it is difficulty was .the ·Treaty of Versailles. I ·reinstatement in Berlin of a real govern­ _conquered. wish to enter into no defense of that ·ment by the German people could make THE JAPANESE treaty. I do agree the treaty made un­ 'America believe that Germany had no We who live on the Pacific coast have necessary demands and fixed impossi'ble designs on world conquest. No prbtesta­ watched with great alarm the growth and conditions; however, no worse than those tion by Hitler and his ruthless outlaws development of the warlike attitude of imposed by winning nations since the should suffice to prevent us from doubling the Japanese. They are people of in­ beginning of time. If we would under· 'our watch and increasing our defenses. tense patriotic fervor. · They are moved stand what the Germans would have im­ by the determination to dominate and posed if they had won in the first World A TRAIL OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION ·control Asia. This brings them into di­ War we must compare the Versailles Hitler dominates the conquered coun­ rect conflict with those nations which Treaty with the treaty imposed upon tries completely. No uncensored news have possessions in Asia. They count on Russia by Germany when Russia gave up. comes from within the borders of those a German victory to give them control of If the Allies made any serious mistake lands. It is said to be a crime punish­ the Pacific. There were some Members after the :first World War, ~ t was in not ·able by death for a citizen in any of the of this House who opposed a two-ocean enforcing those provisions of the Ver· conquered countries to listen to a . for­ navy. sailles Treaty which provided that Ger­ eign broadcast, or to read any publica­ Japanese born in this country are, many should not Pnter the Rhineland tion not approved by the Reich. under our laws, American citizens. They .and s-hould not rearm. The terms of the How many thousands, and perhaps are also citizens of Japan, and in case of Treaty of Versailles were broken by the millions, have been liquidated by the stress we can depend upon a Japanese to Axis Powers. The failure of the League German secret police, nobody knows. devote his life and energies to his native of Nations, future historians may say, Occasionally a letter is smuggled out. land. This is our problem in Hawaii and was largely the cause of the second World We hardly know whether it is true or on our Pacific slope. It is ardently to be War. false. If a picture comes out of the con­ hoped we can maintain peaceful relations WILL WE BE FORCED INTO THE WAR? quered territories, like the pictures show­ with Japan. ing the destruction of Rotterdam, it is RUSSIA It will be easy enough for us to avoid because some bold man brought it out at war if we conform to the demands of the the risk of his life. Endless examples Nobody seems to know what will be the conquering nations of the Axis Powers. might be given to prove the cold-blooded, part Russia will ultimately play in this It always takes two to make a fight. If heartless· spirit of this world conquest. World War. Unquestionably, the sup­ an agressor makes demands on a nation, No one thing has more impressed me port she has given Hitler since September the nation can grant the demands and than the destruction of Rotterdam. 1939 has been one of the causes of his there is no war. There need have b::Jen success. Russia at this moment still re­ no war in China had the Chinese sub­ Rotterdam was a beautiful modern city mains an enigma. Her entrance into in Holland. Many of its citizens believed mitted to what the Japanese wanted them -in the promises and honest intentions of this great drama may be of pivotal im­ to do; namely, to turn their Government portance. We hope she may be led to over to the Japanese and administer their Hitler. The city had surrendered-had march shoulder to shoulder with the offered no resistance to the conquering democracies. affairs of state as dictated by Japan. The hordes of the Reich. Twelve o'clock at present war could have been avoided had noon, low-flying bombing planes came WHY DID THE UNITED STATES JOIN THE ALLIES England and France continued to grant over the city and literally destroyed every APRIL 6, 1917? Hitler's demands. The War between the building for a mile wide and 3 miles long Since I have been a Member of Con­ States need never have been fought had in the very heart of that thriving city of gress many times have I heard certain the Northern States allowed the Southern more than a half million people. Not a colleagues on this floor state that the States to form their Confederacy. I do hostile airplane, not a defending airplane, United States was misled when she de- not believe the oft-repeated statement 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 555 that "There never was a bad peace and Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, be­ acquiring from their own Dominion of never a justifiable war." hind the dim unknown, Canada? Should Adolf Hitler become convinced Standeth God within the shadow, keeping Mr. MAAS. That is quite true. that he can win, that he can conquer watch above His own. Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Ther.e is Great Britain, and that Germany, Italy, Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 no suggestion that Canada give or con­ and Japan would face only the United minutes to the gentleman from Minne­ tribute to the war proposed here, is States, it is my opinion that he would sota [Mr. MAAsJ. there? do just what the Kaiser did 25 years ago. Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman, H. R. 1776 Mr. MAAS. No; that is not even pro­ He would take the chance and make war is not a national-defense measure. It is posed in Canada, and the British have on the United States, not by direct inva­ not a measure to increase or to strengthen not asked it. The truth of the matter is sion but through his customary method our Army or our Navy. It is not a meas­ that we have not only been supplying of using his "fifth columnists" and pro­ ure to speed up aid to Great Britain. It Britain with a great amount of war ma­ German allies now in our country. We deals solely with the question of how they terial but we have given those war mate­ have these "fifth columnists" and pro­ shall pay for the aid which they get, un­ rials to the British without cost to them. Germans in large numbers in every State less there are hidden powers in the bill The profits from the gold which we in the Union, and it is the source of our and if there are we should debate the bought from the British have paid for greatest weakness. bill on that basis and see what those all their war purchases in this country, We speak the English language. We secret or hidden powers are. so that the British have not impaired love the English literature. I think the Mr. WHITE. Will the gentleman their economy one bit by this war so far time has come when English-speaking yield? as its purchases in this country are con­ peoples must draw close together in a Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman cerned. firm union for their own preservation. from Idaho. Mr. MARCANTONIO. Will the gen­ I do not believe it is best for the United Mr. WHITE. In its final analysis, is tleman yield? States to become a declared war ally of this not simply a financing bill to permit Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman Great Britain. I do believe the time has the American people to finance the war from New York. come for us to give them every possible of the British Empire? Mr. MARCANTONIO. May I point out aid within our power, and to recognize Mr. MAAS. On the face of it, cer­ that while England is asking for ships them as our first line of defense. It will tainly that is all it is. It ought to be through the medium of this bill it has be far easier for us to produce airplanes, dealt with on that basis. not taken away a single ship from the naval vessels, and armaments if we take This bill will not get a single extra air­ coastwise monopoly trade that it has the stand provided in this bill. plane to England. It will not get an from the United States to South Amer­ I have heard and read with very deep airplane to England any sooner whether ica? In fact, it has been adding ships in interest the comparisons made between we pass the bill or do not pass it. It order to retain that shipping monopoly our resources and the combined resources deals simply with how they shall pay for from the United States to South America. of Germany, Japan, and Italy, should the aid. Mr. MAAS. That is quite true. The they win over Great Britain. I am star~ Mr. Chairman, if we are really serious British are not short of either credit or tied to learn how much they will exceed about wanting to speed up aid to Britain, ships. They have a very large merchant us in ships of the line, in airplanes, in then we should attack that problem di­ marine operating in the South American building capacity, and how their 400,- rectly. We should attack the problem trade and in the Pacific trade which if 000,000 of virtual slaves will be compelled of speeding up production in this coun­ they would pull off and put in the Atlantic to labor to keep up the equipment for the try, attack the problem of putting an end to take supplies from the United States to conquerors. We should be startled and to labor strikes, and putting an end to England would give them an adequate fearful, as the Greeks must have been stoppages on account of lack of produc­ merchant marine for that purpose. But startled and fearful, when they learned tion facilities, if that really be the pur­ they are more farsighted than we are. of the tremendous hordes that were com­ pose. They are thinking about when the war is ing out of Asia under Darius and Xerxes, As to the ability of the British to pay over and if they can retain their com­ centuries before the birth of the Savior. for continued purchases in this country, merce and their ships, and if in the mean­ And still, a little band of free men, backed we are told that they have reached the time we have expended ours, so much the up by a united nation, scattered those end of their resources, but there is noth­ better for England, because they will not ruthless hordes to the winds. ing on record to indicate that is the case only have their ships to use in their for­ eign trade, but we will not have any with WE TAKE OUR STAND FOR THE RIGHT at all. A caeful estimate indicates that the British Empire has in excess of 17 which to compete with them. We, the people of the United States, billion dollars of liquid or liquidable as­ Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Will need today to recall the great acts of sets in the United States and in their the gentleman yield? courage and the wise decisions in crises own dominions and possessions. Canada, Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentlewoman which have been characteristic of people for instance, while it has sent some vol­ from Massachusetts. · of our blood and are part of our heritage. unteers to England, has not resorted to Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Does We march with the proud procession of conscription. Canada has not touched its not the gentleman feel that England the free people of all ages who have gone own material resources for the prosecu­ would much prefer to have the money forward to ultimate victory in the strug­ tion of this war. with which to buy the things she needs, gle to uphold the rights and the dignity Mr. YOUNGDAHL. Will the gentle­ such as airplanes, guns and so forth of man. There has ever been a "present man yield? rather than be told what she may have? crisis." At intervals, it is sharply accen­ Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman Mr. MAAS. I think so, and that is tuated, then men turn to the expressions what I am proposing. I am not opposed of faith and confidence which have in­ from Minnesota. to aiding Great Britain, and I think the spired our fathers. We know that all Mr. YOUNGDAHL. Does the gentle­ day for discussing that is over. Whether­ nations will finally be shaped to a divine man know whether any of the Provinces it was a wise policy or not, this Nation is plan-divine because of its purpose to of the British Empire have passed simi­ now committed to a policy of aiding the free men and nations and animate them lar legislation to 1776? British to continue :fighting until we are with the desire so to fashion governments Mr. MAAS. To the best of my knowl­ prepared. Now, of course, that assumes that the good life may be shared by all. edge, no part of the British Empire has that we are merely going to assist them A poet has expressed our confidence even proposed such legislation as this. to :fight until we build our own defenses and helped to "bind the scattered ages Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Will the to where we may become impregnable. with a song." [Applause.] gentleman yield? But we are launching upon a new course, Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman Careless seems the great Avenger; history's a course not only of aiding the British to pages but record from Kentucky. keep fighting until we are prepared, but One death grapple ln the darkness 'twixt old Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Is it not of underwriting a British victory, which systems and the Word; true that the British Empire has paid means an entirely different thing. Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever for every dollar or agreed to pay for every Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Does on the throne, dollar of munition supplies that they are the gentleman not think that the British •556 CONGR·ESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 in their-hearts believe that the President come Canada, if it saw fit, of its own free use, $1,000,000,000, but such sum to be of the United States will direct the strat­ will and accord, to make such a request. charged against the final purchase price of egy of their war if this bill is passed? Mr. MAAS. I do not know whether the British possessions purchased by and ceded to the United States under authority Mr. MAAS. I think that is a very rea­ or not the gentleman is familiar with of this act. sonable assumption. Either one of two the fact, but Canada can, without fur­ 5. The inhabitants of such territories as things is going to happen. Either the ther reference, be admitted to the Union may be transferred to the United States President of the United States is going if it so desires. Certainly, we would wel­ under authority of this act who may so elect to assume the prerogative of directing the come Canada if it wanted to join our shall have 1 year from the date of transfer British or the British are going to direct Commonwealth. of such territories to the United States to America. I wish to point out that the British is­ declare their allegiance to the United States Mr. DONDERO. Will the gentleman of America. All such residents of such land possessions in the Western Hemi­ possessions who so declare their intentions yield? sphere have only one value, and that is under such regulations as may be prescribed Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman a military value. These islands are an by the President of the United States within from Michigan. economic loss to the British. They have the period herein specified shall thereafter be · Mr. DONDERO. Does the gentleman to be supported by a subsidy. If we take under the full protection of the United States interpret section 3 of this bill as con­ them over, they will be an economic loss of America. ferring upon the President the right to to us, and we will have to support them Mr. BLOOM. Then what are you go­ convoy British ships with American war­ by subsidy as we do the Virgin Islands. ing to do? Are you going to wait until ships? But I am not proposing that we take that is fully consummated before you do Mr. MAAS. I do not know. That is a them for an economic profit. All naval anything for defense? legalistic question, but I doubt very much bases and all military posts are economic Mr. MAAS. No; I propose that we .if he has that right. The President cer­ liabilities. The Army and the Navy are take immediate possession. tainly has the right now to convoy Ameri­ not profit-making institutions. We main­ Mr. BLOOM. Is the gentleman really can ships, but I do not think this bill gives tain all of them as part of our defense serious about the amendment? him the right to convoy British ships. system, as a premium for the insurance Mr. MAAS. I am tremendously seri­ However, the bill is so broad in its termi­ to guarantee the perfectly enormous ous. I may point out to the gentleman nology that I doubt whether you or I can wealth of this Nation. I propose that we that this leasing policy is a very danger­ define it. incorporate these islands in our naval­ ous thing. What would be the situation Mr. DONDERO. If it gives him that defense system as .part of our defenses if we had leased the Louisiana Territory power, does the gentleman not think it is and bear the cost on that basis. instead of purchasing it? Today it would the one power that will lead this country Mr. BLOOM. Does the gentleman have reverted to Europe and that great into war? • have his amendment in writing, or is this .Territory would be part of the European Mr. MAAS. I think the President him­ just a suggestion? system. self has said that convoying would bring Mr. MAAS. No; I have the amend­ Mr. BLOOM. But the gentleman war. You get into where the fighting is ment with me. going on, and that is war. stated at the outset that we would be Mr. BLOOM. I should like to hear it, buying a liability, did he not? Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the if the gentleman would not mind read­ gentleman yield? Mr. MAAS. An economic liability. ing it. Mr. BLOOM. But it is a liability? Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman Mr. MAAS. I should be very glad to from Pennsylvania. read the amendment. The exact latitude Mr. MAAS. An economic liability but Mr. RICH. If we do away with the and longitude I do not have finally de­ a military necessity. I may point out that Neutrality Act and by Presidential proc­ termined. these islands have only one value, a mili­ lamation permit our ships to go to Great Mr. BLOOM. Never mind about the tary value, and from a defense standpoint Britain and they are sunk, what is going .description of the location of the islands, they are of value only to the defense of to happen? just read the rest of the amendment. the United St.ates and the Western Hemi­ Mr. MAAS. Of course, we are going to Mr. MAAS. The amendment I pro­ sphere. They are too far from Europe war. We always have. pose is as follows: to be of any value in the defense of Eu­ rope. If it is true that what the British need That the President of the United States is is purchasing power in this country, and hereby authorized to negotiate the purchase, From an offensive standpoint they are let us assume that they do need the pur­ en bloc, of- all possessions of the British Em­ of value only against the United States chasing power, then the thing for us to pire, except the Dominion of Canada and or the Western Hemisphere. They are do is to grant them purchasing power. the Province of Nova Scotia, lying west of too far from Europe to be used as a base I intend to offer an amendment to this parallel-and east of parallel: Provided, of operations against Europe, but these effect: That· the United States purchase That two of such island possessions deter­ islands in the possession of a power mined by the negotiating nations to have hostile to the United States are a terrible all the British possessions in the Western the least military and/ or naval value, one in · Hemisphere with the exception of Can­ the Atlantic and one in the Pacific, be re­ danger to the defense of the Western ada and the Province of Nova Scotia, tained by the British Empire for the perma­ Hemisphere. Especially if these islands everything in this hemisphere, in both the nent residence of such inhabitants of the are fortified by us they may soine day Atlantic and the Pacific. Figuring it on various possessions so transferred to the be turned against us to be used as bases the basis of what we paid Denmark for United States who may wish to remain under and jumping-of! points for invasion or the Virgin Islands, it would come to British sovereignty: And provi ded further as bases from which to operate a block­ That no fortifications or naval bases shall be ade against the Western Hemisphere. somewhere around $16,000,000,000 or even established on these two islands except by more. I propose to charge off against the United States. They should be in the system of the - that the British debt to the United States 2. The President of the United States is United States military and naval de­ of about $6 ,000,000,000, leaving the Brit­ authorized to set such value u pon the terri­ fenses. So long as they remain in the ish a net credit in this country of $10,- tory so purchased as may be determined by possession of Great Britain they are a 000,000,000, which I propose to be placed mutual agreement between the negotiating guaranty and a hostage that we shall in the Export-Import Bank to their n ations, against which value the debt of have to go to the rescue of Great Britain credit, against which they may make England to the United States may be cred­ no matter when or where she shall go to ited: Provi ded, however, That the net amount open purchases of anything .they like in to be credited to England shall not exceed war for fear that these islands may fall the United States. $10,000,000,000. into the possession of some other power. Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the 3. The net amount of the purchase price Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, will . gentleman yield again? so agreed upon shall be placed in the Export­ the gentleman yield? Mr. MAAS. I yield. Import Bank of the United States to the Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman credit of England for purchases in the United from Michigan. Mr. RICH. Supposing Canada, in its Stat es. judgment, decided that it wanted to be­ 4. Pen ding completion of the above-au­ Mr. DINGELL. But the gentleman come a part of the United States, and thorized negotiations, there is hereby placed contends that under the terms of the arrangements could he -made to that in the Export-Import Bank of the Unit ed bill before us the President cannot con­ effect, I think we would be glad to wei- States to the credit of England, for immediate duct negotiations and arrange a trade? 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 557 Mr. MAAS. No; I do not contend that These Western Hemisphere islands enough to offer to purchase them. With he could not do it, but I am trying to have only one value, and that is military. the situation reversed, few will doubt direct that it be done. Economically, they are a loss to the Brit­ that the British would not have seized Mr. DINGELL. WiD ·the gentleman ish and require a subsidy for the support these islands long ago. admit that it could be done under the of the inhabitants. It is qUite true these I shall certainly vote against the so­ terms of the bill? islands would become an economic lia­ called lend-lease bill in anything like Mr. MAAS. Yes; I think it could be bility to the United States, but the pur­ its present form. I have been guided by done. pose behind suggesting their purchase is just one principle, that is to vote for Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr. not for economic profit but to bolster our every measure to strengthen our own de­ Chairman, will the gentleman yield? national-defense system. All military fenses, but against every measure that Mr. MAAS. I yield to the gentleman posts and naval bases are economic losses. tended to involve us in foreign wars. from Kentucky. None of them are self-supporting. The Frequently, I have had to vote for meas­ Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. May I Army and Navy themselves are not main­ ures that were very unpopular in my inquire whether or not these island pos­ tained at a profit but at an enormous district and also against measures that sessions of Great Britain have been used cost, because they are essential to the were very popular. I voted for and against us? defense of the Nation. The total cost worked for all increases in our own Mr. MAAS. They were used against us of all defense, however, is merely an in­ Army, Navy, and air force; and I voted ln the War of 1812; they were used surance premium to protect the perfectly for the draft. These were all measures · against us in the Civil War; and they enormous wealth of this Nation and this designed to strengthen the United States. may be used against us again in the hemisphere. · I voted against repeal of the arms em­ future unless they are our possessions. Great Britain could hardly claim that bargo, for this repeal not only did not [Applause.] ceding these islands to the United States strengthen our own defenses, but weak­ I propose that we buy all their Western would impair her own economic struc­ ened them. It is one thing to aid Bri­ Hemisphere possessions with the excep­ ture. These islands, from a military tain to keep fighting until our own de­ tion of Canada and the Province of Nova standpoint, have a defense value only to fenses are impregnable; it is quite a dif­ Scotia and pay them a very liberal price. the United States and the Western Hem­ ferent thing to become a partner in a I have estimated that even after charging isphere. They are too far away from European War. If our partner, in spite off their first World War debts to us Europe to be of any value as operating of our help, should lose, then an attempt against a most generous price there would bases to defend Europe itself; but the is­ at an invasion of our country as a re­ be $10,000,000,000 left which can be lands are absolutely essential to our own prisal is almost certain. I am not talk­ placed to the credit of the British in the defense. At least, it is vital that they do ing about neutrality. No one even pre­ Export-Import Bank of the United States not become part of any military or naval tends that we are still neutral. To aid for British purchases in the United system of any overseas power. All of Great Britain by permitting her to pur­ States. This would cancel the first these islands, properly fortified and in chase war supplies here is one thing; but World War debt and allow the British to the possession of the United States as for the United States Government, as continue their purchases in the United part of its defense system, will make the such, to actually furnish those supplies 1s States. It would at the same time re­ Western Hemisphere really impregnable. to become an active participant in Eng­ move from this hemisphere the ever­ On the other hand, from an offensive land's war. Once in the war, it will not present danger that these islands might standpoint, these Western Hemisphere be very easy to get out. some day be used against this hemisphere islands are of value only in action against [Here the gavel fell.J the United States and the Western a~ bases from which to carry on an in­ Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield vasion of the Western Hemisphere, or Hemisphere. They are too far from 15 minutes to the gentleman from Cali­ at least blockading operations. These Europe to be used by us as bases from fornia [Mr. VooRHIS]. islands in the possession of the United which to carry on aggressive operations Mr. VOORIDS of California. Mr. States and fortified by us, with the estab­ against Europe or Asia. They almost Chairman, I come before the House this lishment of proper naval bases, would surround the United States, however, afternoon . as one who is compelled to truly make the Western Hemisphere in­ and other parts of the Western Hemi­ confess that this bill has caused him a vulnerable against either Europe or Asia. sphere. Used as ·bases by a hostile force, great deal of distress of spirit, and it was This plan would give Great Britain all they would be perfect jumping-off places with the hope that, perhaps, my remarks, the credit necessary to make all the pur­ for an invasion of this hemisphere or as which come out of some sleepless nights, chases that it desires and needs in this bases from which to operate in blockad­ might be helpful to some other Members country without in any way involving us ing the United States and forcing us into. who find themselves in somewhat the in the war itself. Then, regardless of the ultimate subjugation. Therefore, since same position as myself tha.t I asked for outcome of the war, we would not become the only value of these islands is mili­ this time. involved over the question of the possible tary, their only defensive value is to the We are considering one of the most transference of these islands to another United States, and their only offensive profoundly significant measures in all the European or Asiatic power. They would value would be against the United States, history of American government. It already be our own territory. This plan it is right and proper that these islands ought to be considered without regard to would prevent the possibility of any of should be in the possession of and under partisanship ·and without regard to the these islands being ceded under an im­ the complete and exclusive control of the political fortunes of anybody. As I see posed peace by the Axis to Germany, United States. Any other nation, in­ it, it has got to be considered with ref­ Italy, Russia, or Japan. cluding Great Britain, under similar cir­ erence to the real, actual situation as it If England really wants merely further cumstances, would have seized these exists today in the world, and I do not purchasing power in this country and not islands long ago. I am proposing a dif­ think it can be considered without refer­ a subterfuge to force us into active par­ ferent course. I am proposing that we ence to the course of events which im­ ticipation in the war in her behalf, she purchase these islands from the ·British mediately precedes our consideration of will accept our proposal to buy her West­ at a very generous price. I am using as the bill, regardless of whether that ern Hemisphere islands. If there is any my basis the price that we paid Denmark course of events has been actually the undue delay in the arrangement, it will for the Virgin Islands. On the same one that you or I might have chosen to be the fault of Great Britain and not the basis the total amount for the British have it be. fault of the United States. Assuming possessions would be about $16,000,000,- I am inclined to think that the action that it is true that her credit is now ex­ 000, against which I am charging the debt of the American Congress on this bill hausted, my proposal contains immedi­ of Great Britain to the United States of will be a matter of considerable im­ ate availability of a billion dollars for some $6,000,000,000, leaving a net credit portance and influence on world events, continuing Great Britain's purchases of for Great Britain of $10,000,000,000. and so I do not believe that we in con­ war materials in the United States pend­ We should, however, make it clear that nection with this debate or with the ing the outcome of the negotiations; this the United States must assume jurisdic­ amendments which will follow it ought to amount to be charged against the ulti­ tion over these islands, with or without consider the matter wholly from the mate price agreed upon. British consent. I think it is generous standpoint of what we would like to do 558 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY f.l or what we might feel good about doing. the world. I do not think the question a.s very Iong war from which only the forces I think we have got to consider it from to whether one nation is pulling the of dissolution and chaos can profit, we the standpoint of its impact upon great other nation's chestnuts out of the fire must aim for those two things, and ear­ events, which are beyond the control of has anything whatsoever to do with it in nestly strive all the time to bring them any of us as individuals. the present. situation. about. We must spend our utmost effort Now, we talk about defending democ­ Now, there are two matters on which I to help Britain in her fight for her life. racy, and when we say that there are two think the House should be very clear. And we must strive for the earliest peace words of tremendous importance. One The first of these is the question as to that can be made on a decent, fair basis. of those words is "defense" and the other just how this bill changes the present sit­ I listened with great attention tci the one is "democracy." I do not believe we uation with regard to aid to Great Brit­ remarks of the gentleman from Texas can consider a measure of this kind pure­ ain. I would like to hear tomorrow, and [Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON] as I did to the ly on the basis of its implications from I shall be here all day as I have been from remarks of other gentlemen. The gen­ the standpoint of defense and the rela­ the beginning, members of the commit­ tleman from Texas said that the purpose tionship of national arms and military tee explain in more detail than has been of this bill is to .empower the President to strength to one another. I think we have done yet just exactly what the difference make the best negotiated arrangements also got to consider it with regard to its will be between the present situation he could in order to enable nations which impact upon the relationship of Congress with regard to aid for Britain and the sit­ are short of credit resources to secure the to the Executive and the place of Con­ uation if and when this bill, in substan­ defense equipment that we want them to gress in the American Government's tially its present form, shall be adopted. have. It seems to me that that is a rea­ structure as a whole. Since it is democ­ sonable statement of the bill. I agree racy that we seek to defend, we cannot WHAT ARE AMERICA'S AIMS? with the gentleman from Texas that it say that we have no time for considering But the second thing on which I want is impossible for Congress as a body to the implications of this measure with re­ to say a few words myself and on which carry on negotiations of that kind. I per­ gard to the prerogatives and duties of I think we need to be clear is as to what sonally believe that to make transactions Congress. There are some things like the aims of America are in this whole which are complete at the time of making congressional control of the purse, proper matter. We have heard a lot about at­ them is vastly better than an extension limitations as to the time and extent of tempting to secure a statement of the of credit. I hope that some such arrange­ extraordinary grants of Executive power war aims of Great Britain and I thinl~ ments as a transfer of certain British that have always got to be fundamental. we should know them, but it seems to me possessions to the United States in ex­ But neither do I think we can decide it is time for us to think through what the change for some of these materials may to turn down a measure of this kind, aims of our own policy are, and I want be made. which has a very intimate relationship to endeavor in my remarks here to state I think it would be better for all con­ to real events and conditions in the as carefully and clearly as I can what my cerned if these transactions are com­ present-day world, solely on the ground own conception is of that matter. May plete, and that it does not take the form that we do not like the way it conforms I say at the outset that consideration of of another interest-bearing debt, which I to certain established precedents. these American aims so far as I am con­ hope I shall have time to speak about It will contribute little to the cause of cerned centers about a pledge which has more at length before I get through. In­ America if any of us resolve to be against been given in the platforms of both great deed, since our friendly relations with the this bill regardless of its effect upon tragic political parties to the effect that we South American nations are so impor­ international events of the greatest im­ would not send American soldiers abroad tant, I cherish the hope that it may be portance, nor will it contribute anything to attempt to invade foreign continents. possible out of these transactions for us of value if we fail to consider its possible I believe it is necessary for us to de­ to secure the return to some of them of effect on the position of Congress as the cide now, and in the silence of our hearts, territory previously taken from them, last great legislative body operating freely that if the time should ever come when a such as British Honduras and British in the world. The only constructive point choice is to be made, whether we are go­ Guiana. The effect of such action on of view, as I see it, is that <;>f one who ing to do that thing, that om answer will our part would be incalculable, in my is ready to consider this measure in de­ be no. If I believed that this bill were a opinion. tail, to try to guard as best he can the step toward our breaking that pledge, I Mr. MARCANTONIO .. Mr. Chairman, fundamental factors in our American would vote against it in a moment, and I will the gentleman yield? government, but who keeps ever before think the only way that we can be certain Mr. VOORHIS of California. Oh, I am him the tremendous importance of this that it is not going to be such a step is sorry, but I am not going to have time to bill as a whole from the standpoint of the for us to do approximately what I am nearly finish what I want to say myself. present relationship of our Nation to the trying to do in these brief remarks, and Mr. Chairman, we ought to be sure before rest of the nations of the world. that is to state what our own position on we pass this bill that the bill does just There are two kinds of viewpoints that that matter is. I believe that has bear­ what the gentleman from Texas said it I think we have got to disregard. One of ing on what America's aims should be; I would do, which seems to be reasonable those viewpoints is the viewpoint of those think they are twofold. I think the first and proper, and that it does not do a people who already-and I hope and be­ aim is to do what we can to bolster Brit­ whole lot of other things. I shall listen lieve that their number is small-are pre­ ish resistance, not in the interest of the with care to the presentation of amend­ pared to go to war. The other viewpoint British Empire as an imperial aggrega­ ments from that standpoint. is the viewpoint of those who are still tion, but in the interest of the continuous I am hopeful that when the time comes fighting the War of 1812 and who have free existence of the British Nation in for the consideration of amendments that for some reason a particular hatred of order that there may be standing in the the bill can be put in such shape that it the Brit.ish. world one more great nation that is not may receive the overwhelming approval I think, perhaps, a clear statement of under the heel of the totalitarian dicta­ of the House. I believe it is possible to the relationship of our country to Great torships, one more great nation to whom do the thing the gentleman from Texas Britain in connection with this matter we may look for friendly intercourse. I spoke about, which I think is essential, might be worth while. think that is very important, and this is and still not have matters in the bill TRUE RELATIONSHIP OF AMERICA TO THE WAR IN why this rill is here. But, just as impor­ which some Members feel sincerely and EUROPE tant, I think our second aim should. be to deeply ought not to be there. I want to bring about, as soon as we can, on a de­ make it plain that I have no thought in Britain is fighting her own battle. She cent basis, a peace. The reason I think my mind of distrusting for a moment the is fighting a battle because she has to that is important is because if we are go­ President of the United States. He said fight it. It so happens, however, as I see ing to keep the pledge of which I spoke a solemnly that soldiers would not be sent it, that our relationship to this matter is moment ago, we cannot commit our­ to Europe. I believe he meant it when he a deep and rather desperate interest in selves to a course of action which implies said it, and I believe he means it now seeing to it that the balance of power in an invasion of the Continent of Europe. For my part, I am not any more willing the world is not completely destroyed and And so, considering the alternative to the to do that now than I was a month ago that we do not have to witness a complete second aim that I have mentioned, which or a year ago. The President said that victory for the forces of dictatorship in it seems to me is the alternative of a very, he was against convoys, and he said it in 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 559 the teeth of others who were saying that have any interest in preserving empire sovereignty, why it has to be an interest­ they were for convoys. He has indicated or favorable trade balances; but I do bearing debt. that he will do the very best job he can to have an interest in the way of life where­ I was going to read a quotation from protect the interests of the United States, in free men can freely struggle to better one of the greatest journalists in Cali­ and it seems to me that in the destroyer their conditions, freely worship and be­ fornia, Mr. Manchester Boddy, editor of deal, so-called, that he made, that he did lieve according to their own consciences. the Los Angeles Daily News, on this sub­ that very thing. But there is a deeper I know that is not possible in a Nazi- or ject, in which he says that the very future question and I recognize it, speaking as a Communist-dominated nation. of this great international struggle de­ Democrat. So it seems to me that the importance pends upon whether America and Britain A RESPONSmLE LEGISLATURE-WHAT SORT OF of aid to Great Britain, of aid to other will have the vision to adapt their mone­ AMENDMENTS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED nations attempting to resist the totali­ tary systems to the modern world. It is tarians, has become a part of American on page 51 of the RECORD of January 8, I recognize that there is a deeper ques­ policy. That crucial step has been taken. 1941. I hope, at least, some of the Mem­ tion than the question of trusting the There was a time when our policy might bers will read it. President. There is the question of the have been different; when we might have [Here the gavel fell.J responsibility of Congress, when it does had a thus-far-and-no-farther policy; Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield make an extraordinary grant of power, when we might have said that America's the gentleman 1 ndditional minute. that it take care not to do things that interest stopped at a certain place and Mr. VOORHIS of California. This will appear to the people to be irrespon­ stuck to that religiously and scrupulously. world conflict-for such it is-is a sible. I believe that unless a time limit Indeed, I have cast votes that I felt would broader and deeper thing than the ter­ is put on this bill, that a Member of lead to the adoption of that kind of pol­ rible wars that are taking place. It is a Congress should not vote for it. I think icy. Frankly, I have preferred it. But struggle between two different principles there would be no harm to making the it is not our policy, Since the crucial of life for the allegiance of men. It will time limit 1 year instead of 2 years. step has been taken, and we have started be decided ultimately not by the sacrifice Congress can very easily act in a simple on a policy of aiding the democracies, of young men's lives to preserve empire fashion to extend anything of that kind. Great Britain particularly, then it seems or a particular method of carrying on Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ to me that all the risks and dangers in­ foreign commerce. It will be decided by tleman yield? volved in such policy are present imme­ the quality and character of life that Mr. VOORHIS of California. I would diately whether the aid given be lan~e prevails in the nations. · · like to proceed, if the gentleman does not or small. Therefore the only sensible i am not minimizing the paramount mind. thing to do is not to pursue this policy importance of our military defense pro­ Mr. FISH. I shall yield the gentleman in a half-hearted manner but rather to gram. But I am saying that above and some additional time. give that aid as efficiently and effectively beyond that there arises the question of Mr. VOORHIS of California. Very as possible. this century, and that question is this: well. I think the President's phrase "an ar­ Can the principle of democracy, the prin­ Mr. FISH. I want to say to the gen­ senal of democracy" is a good phrase. I ciple of government by consent of the tleman, as a member of the committee think we have to seek to become as effi­ governed, the principle of America pro­ that has given careful study to this mat­ cient and effective an arsenal as we can. duced by the labor and sacrifice of its ter, that is one of the most important I think the arguments of the proponents people's minds and hearts, a society so amendments that could be placed on the of the bill to the effect that by so doing, devoid of unearned privilege, so knit to- bill. If you could put in an amendment by coordinating the orders and procure­ ,gether in unity of purpose, so clearly de­ limiting it to 1 year, it would be the most ment of the United States and Great voted to the basic welfare of its common vital amendment in the bill. Britain, there will be very important in­ citizens that it will draw unto itself the Mr. VOORIDS of California. I hope I cidental benefit to America's own de­ spontaneous admiration and allegiance have made my position clear. I shall fense program, is sound. of people around the world? support such an amendment, for I believe So, on the basis of our present policy, I believe we can do that. If I did not it important for the Congress to carry because of things that have gone before, I would be hopeless indeed. I believe it out as carefully and meticulously as it things we cannot take back, I believe that because I believe there is a lat.ent can its responsibilities. I recognize, at on balance there is probably less danger strength in right which those who serve the same time, that the only way the to the United States if we pass a bill of emergency we face today can be met is the right can draw upon when they need by ·an extraordinary grant of power to this general nature than if we defeat it. to. But there is the point; they must Under all the present circumstances, the need to. If, in half-hearted fashion, the Executive, and I do not fear what sudden and early collapse of British re­ careful of the personal privilege which the Executive will do. But, for the other sistance would, in my opinion, be the does society no good, we dally with our reasons I have explained, I wish that all most serious single event that could hap­ throughout the bill grants of power could problems, then we shall neither need nor be specific; that language, instead of pen to the United States, next only to our gain that strength of spirit of which I saying "or in any other manner," or own involvement in war. have spoken. "without regard to the provisions of other WE MUST COUNT THE COST AND WE MUST LEARN There is only one thing stronger in the laws," could be sharpened so that · we TO USE THE CREDIT RESOURCES OF OUR SOVER• world than the military might of a totali­ would know exactly what we were saying, EIGN NATION tarian state. That one thing is the vol­ On the other hand, I recognize the fact, The question of our future, to say noth­ untary devotion of a free people to the and I hope I Will have time to make it ing of our present :financial problem, has cause of freedom; but that devotion must plain, that we have already embarked been raised. I have many times stated be complete, and it affords no rest, no now upon a policy of aid to the democ­ my views on this matter. In a nutshell peace of mind, no calm repose to the one racies. I think it is a policy that has the it is this, that it is wrong and ridiculous whom it possesses until his country's last support of most of the American people. for a sovereign state ever to contract an problem has been solved and until the I do not think they have, and certainly I interest-bearing debt; that certainly in a door of reasonable opportunity stands · do not have, any interest in empire-in time like this we ought to have the wis­ open before his lowliest fellow citizen. empire for Great Britain or empire for dom and the vision in a great Congress Gentlemen, I bespeak of you your in­ the United States. I do not believe em­ like this to vote, in the face of all the sac­ terest in that type of defense for democ­ pires ever brought happiness to the peo­ rifices that will have to go into this de­ racy as well as in the type we are con­ ple of any homeland, all through history. fense program, to finance this defense sidering in this bill. [Applause.] [Here the gavel fell.] program without incurring an interest­ [Here the gravel fell.] Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I yield bearing debt. It can be done. There is Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 the gentleman 5 additional minutes. no question of that. It is all a matter of minutes to the gentleman from Penn• Mr. VOORHIS of California. I thank whether you want to or not. Any debt sylvania [Mr. RieHl. the gentleman. I do not have any in­ you contract must be redeemed out of fu­ Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I, toe, dis­ terest in the gold standard, except that ture taxation which means out of future like very much to impose myself upon the I believe it has been a means of oppress­ production, and there is not any reason, membership at this late hour of the day, ing commerce and industry, nor do I if you. exercise the reasonable right -of but I realize the importance of this bill. 560 CONG~ESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 I have been waiting more than 4 hours to sent under our flag across the seas, we settle these disputes and wars by peace­ secure this time. having let down the neutrality bars, and ful means. I do not want anyone to No bill that has ever come before Con­ should a vessel belonging to the United think I am a pacifist, because I am not. gress since I have been a Member of this States be blown up, we should be faced I am 100 percent for the defense of Amer­ body do I consider more important to the with a very grave situation. What is ica. I am for anything that will protect welfare of the Nation than H. R. 1776, going to happen? Are we going to de­ American rights and American liberties, now under consideration. I do not know clare war? If we do, it is the end of the I do not care what it is; then I want to whether the number "1776" was assigned American form of government and protect the North American Continent; to the bill by accident or by design. If it American liberty. With the help of God and, finally, I want to protect South was in the regular course of events, all and with all the power at my command America as far as we can. right; if it was by design on the part of I am going to oppose anything of that We have discussed in recent years that someone, it certainly was all wrong, be­ kind. That will be the end of our form great doctrine, the Monroe Doctrine, cause I believe its purposes are diamet­ of government. which we haye already advocated, and rically opposed to what .we have in mind The most sacred things we have in which I believe we shou ~ · protect and de­ as being associated with the year 1776. America today are our traditions, our fend. But what was that doctrine? It The things that happened then and the liberties, and our form of government; was written in 1823 and was framed by things that are happening today are as and I say that nothing must happen that John Quincy Adams. The principles in far apart as is the North Pole from the will ever get us away from our cherished the decree as proclaimed by President South Pole; and that is as far apart as possessions. Monroe were, first, that the Americas are we can get on this earth. What is proposed here? Under the no longer open for colonization by Euro­ The title of the bill as written is, "Fur­ lease-lend bill we are going to give power pean powers; second, we made a promise ther to promote the defense of the United to the President of the United States in of no interference in European affairs or States." We call it the lend-and-spend his discretion to give to Great Britain all politics; and, third, we forbade any in­ bill. I think sometimes we might term the airplanes they want, all the subma­ terference in the political affairs of the it "bend and offend." The bend-and­ rines, all the battleships, all the gunpow­ ·Americas. offend bill of 1941, because if we put it der, all the guns, all the dynamite, TNT, . What are we doing by this bill? In into practical operation, as I read the and everything they need for destruc­ my judgment, we might as well throw the bill, it certainly is going to bend the backs tion, everything that destroys. Certain­ Monroe Doctrine out of the window if we of the American taxpayers for the Qal­ ly that would be a great present for a pass this bill. We are just sticking our ance of their lives, and it certainly is friendly nation. noses into the business of the people of going to offend every country in the world What is the aim of Great Britain in Europe. We are in effect going over that we do not do something for nothing, this war? Do you know? Does anybody there and trying to do what we said we or who we do not give a hand-out of war know? I am sure I do not know, for I would not do in the Monroe Doctrine, material and equipment. have never been informed. then turning around and saying to those In the last 3 or 4 years we have had a If we want to give aid to Britain, why people over there: "We do not want you great deal of discussion about the good­ do we not do that in an .American way? to come over here and meddle in our neighbor policy and of neutrality. We Why do we not do it in the way we have affairs." Did you ever hear of anything have said to the world that we would stay always done it? Why do we not repeal as ridiculous as that? I never thought at home and tend to our own business the Johnson Act and why do we not grant that the American Congress would be so if we were not going to be a good neigh­ a loan to England for one, two, or five bil­ ignorant as to even discuss a bill of this .bor to the other fellow, but I am afraiq lion dollars? That is the business way; kind, not alone bring it on the floor, after this bill is just the beginning of the end. that is the sensible way to aid any coun­ we declared the Monroe Doctrine to be I am afraid this bill is going to get us · try. Also it will be necessary to repeal our policy. Who is the author of such a into the most grave difficulties America the Neutrality Act. Why not let them bill? has ever faced. At a time like this, with come in here and give their orders for Mr. MARCANTONIO. Will the gen­ conditions the world over such as they such materials as they want and let our tleman yield? are, we ought to move slowly and take manufacturing establishments produce Mr. RICH. I yield to the gentleman each step with caution. them? Why do we go to the point of sug­ from New York. I have heard some people say this was gesting such a foolish proposition as a Mr. MARCANTONIO. At this time a political bill. So far as I am concerned, lending and spending of implements of the British are bombing the Ind:ans in and I think so far as every Member of the war? I never heard of anything so silly the northern hills of India who are rising House is concerned, it should be anything and ridiculous in all my days. I never up for independence and freedom from but a political bill. It would not make heard of a piece of legislation that was the exploitation of British imperialism. any difference to me if Mr. Willkie had ever proposed to the Congress that was as By turning over bombers to England by been elected President of the United ridiculous and extraordinary as this piece virtue of this bill, can anyone assure us States and were now in the White House, of legislation. that those bombers will not be used in I would be just as opposed to this bill as Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Will the massacring the Indian tribes who are I am at present; and regardless of the gentleman yield? seeking independence and freedom from fact that Mr. Willkie has gone to Eng­ Mr. RICH. I yield to the gentleman Br~tish exploitation? land, will come back, and may report on from Kentucky. Mr. RICH. How does the gentleman ·this bill, I do not think his report will know but what they are going to be sent influence any Republicans, nor do I think Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. The gen­ back here against us some of these days? . it will influence any Democrats. As was tleman will observe, while he speaks of That is what I am alarmed about. said here a few moments ago by the gen­ Great Britain, that the bill on page 1, section 3, says, ''For the government of Mr. Chairman, we had an experience tleman from Georgia [Mr. TARVER], al­ in the last World War when we sent our most everybody has made up his mind. any country"; and in section 3, when they dispose of it, it may be disposed of to men across the seas 3,000 miles away. I do not agree with that, providing the After that war w~s over we said: "Never bill will be properly amended. I think "any such government"; in other words, to any government. again." If you were to take a vote of the the same as the gentleman from Cali­ American people today they would say: fornia [Mr. VooRHis] stated a few min­ Mr. RICH. Well, a loan may be made "Never again." They come in here and utes ago, we ought to know what the to any government; it does not make any ask yo"u as a Member of Congress to give policy of America is going to be. difference what nation we deal with; it is aid and assistance to Great Britain short We ought to know definitely and with­ the way we do business. These imple­ of war. The great question is, What is out any equivocation just how far we are ments of war are only for destruction. short of war? Who knows what short of going to go, because I can see where we Th~s Nation is short-sighted in that it war is? I think short of war means that are leading up to the situation embraced does not try to settle the differences grow­ we should stay home here, attend to our in the question we asked the gentleman ing out of the war that is going on all own business, and stay out of Europe. from,Minnesota [Mr. MAAS] a little while over the world. We ought to lise every [Applause. J That is my idea of short of ago, that if for any reason one of the ves­ ounce of the energies possessed by the war. That certainly is the policy I want sels we are now constructing should be men and women of America to try to our Government to take. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 56l I have many people in my district who If we do not ask these people to swear 7452-7453, and see what Mr. Churchill want me to vote for this bill. I have re­ allegiance to the American fiag and the was quoted as saying about our war debts ceived telegrams from some of the people American Constitution and ask for citi­ and America's entry in the World War. and I have read newspaper editorials for zenship in this country, we ought to put Read the statements on the fioor of the this bill and some of the best people that them into concentration camps. I be­ Senate by Senator Holt, October 18, 1939, I have in my district write to me wanting lieve it is time now to act to save ourselves page 559 Of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD: me to vote for this bill. But I say now and America and American liberty and Mr. HoLT. England has played either with before Almighty God and this Congress . the American form of government. If the aggressors or against the aggressors, de­ that I am going to do everything to keep these aliens do not want to do that, then pending upon whether or not the aggression America out of war. I promise that. we ought to use our ships to send them touched her. The English hate aggressors I do not care what the people in my back to the countries from which they when the aggressors touch or approach a sin­ district think. If I received a telegram came, or we ought to put them into con­ gle foot of the British Empire. But where tomorrow from everybody in my district centration camps. were the British when Czechoslovakia was de­ stroyed by an aggressor? They were sitting wanting me to vote for this bill, I would As for me, Mr. Chairman, it is my be­ around a conference table, agreeing to that resign my job in Congress before I would lief that this bill will lead us into war and aggression. And in the Italo-Ethiopian War, vote for it. I would not do it, because will cause us the greatest anxiety and when it suited England's purpose, the British this bill is going to lead the American trouble this country has ever had. I am put on the sanctions, and then they took people into war. I would not come here sure the only way we can keep out of war them oft', depending upon whether or not it and vote for doing that. If I did so, I is to defeat this bill. [Applause.] helped England. would never be able to rest with my own When the world is at its worst we But going back to the question of our part conscience. I have more respect for my­ should be at our best. Empires or gov­ in that matter, the President issued a state­ ment and put into effect the arms embargo in self and more respect for the people I ernments founded on blood fear and the Italo-Ethiopian War, and this is why he represent, because I do not think the destruction will perish. Only thos~ na­ did it. I quote the words of his statement on people I represent want me to get them tions founded on good will, kindness, and October 5: into war, and I am going to try to avoid love will survive. Had the Allies at the . "In view of the situation which has unhap­ war if I can. I know they do not want end of the World War been motivated pily developed between Ethiopia and Italy, it war, and I will try to keep all the people by the Golden Rule we would not have has become my duty under the provisions of from having it. so many wars today. . the joint resolution of Congress approved What is the cause of this war propa­ August 31, 1935, to issue, and I am today is­ We sent men across the seas in 1918 suing, my proclamation making effective an and 1919. After that war was over what ganda and fear? I am convinced it was embargo on the exportation from this country was the result? The allied nations got the result of those Americans who have to Ethiopia and Italy of arms, ammunition, together, but they did not have a satis­ large business interests in Europe who and implements of war. Notwithstanding the factory peace to the Allies themselves want the American Government to save hope we entertained that war would be even. Certainly there was I'lot a peace them. Personally, when a person invests avoided and the exertion of our influence in promulgated that was satisfactory to in another country he is under the laws that direction, we are now compelled to recog­ · their enemies. It was a forced peace of the other nation and he should not nize the simple and indisputable fact that Ethiopian and Italian armed forces are en­ and a forced peace never works. except our people to save his invest­ gaged in combat, thus creating a state of war A forced peace never will work. When ments; let the country where he· made within the intent and meaning of the joint you try to destroy, when you try to tear them do so. If they are unable to do that, resolution." down, and when you try to annihilate a then it is his hard luck. He recognized that Italy and Ethiopia were nation of people it will boomerang against After the World War we helped all the fighting without a declaration of war. Why 'the nation that tries to do it. We had European nations; they repudiated their has he not recognized Japan's invasion of those strings in our hands at one time. debts to us. China? Is it trade? Why has he not put the Those same nations, England and embargo in effect against Russia? Is not What was the result? Why, the Treaty Russia in a state of war with Poland? Has of Versailles. France, furnished Germany steel and all not she done just the same thing that Italy Where are we today? We tried by the commodities for war as well as imple­ did in Ethiopia? Oh, yes; but the arms em­ last World War to make the world safe ments of war. What for? So they could bargo is not invoked against Russia. Why? for democracy. Can you get any better get trade and money. Now they are Because it suits the purpose of the advocates lesson than that? Do you want to do the being used against them. Lindbergh told of this measure as a good propaganda element same thing over again? That is what them about it several years ago. They to say that we can sell to Russia. Is that you are getting into, and that is what you .did not heed his advice. He was right; why? There is war between Russia and Po• he has stated it exactly; his recommen­ land today, and it is the duty of the President are heading for. We want a peace that of the United States to put an embargo on is going to be everlasting. You cannot dations today are about the best we have the exportation of arms, ammunition, and annihilate any of those people in Europe had yet. implements of war to Soviet Russia. Why because there are too many tongues over Let me quote to you from an article in does he not do it? there. You cannot put them all under a the February 1941 issue of Scribner's single dictator. Hitler will never survive, Commentator, page 26, by William Grif­ ·Now you can see what the leader of if he does conquer Europe. Napoleon fin, who is editor and publisher of the England thinks of us. Are we going to tried it and he never got any place, and New York Enquirer, as to a conversation bankrupt America for England or any that is just exactly what is going to hap­ which took place between him and Mr. other country? I do not share the idea pen to Hitler. Churchill in London in August 1936, when that the English Fleet is our great savior. I call your attention to the fact that Mr. Churchill made this statement: No country wants to come here and attack us. Why should we go to them- since 1800 there have been 66 wars in the America should have minded her own busi­ world; that is, in 140 years. Great Brit­ ness and stayed out of the World War. If 3,000 and more miles away from our ain was implicated in 17 of these wars, you hadn't entered the war, the Allies would shores? It is suicide if we do. or one each 8 years and 9 months. This have made peace with Germany in the spring What did England ever do for the shows she has quite a record for war. of 1917. Had we made peace then, there United States? I ask _you, and I have I do not fear Germany's coming .over would have been no collapse in Russia, fol­ asked many people, but get no reply. lowed by communism; no break-down in Italy, Give no more power to .,the President. here 3,000 miles. I am more concerned followed by fascism; and Germany would not today with the "fifth columnists" who have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has Retain your rights in the House and are in this country of ours. A few months enthroned nazi-ism in Germany. If America Senate. No war in Europe for me or for ago we made a survey and asked the had stayed out of the war, all of these "isms" our peaple. aliens in this country to register. We wouldn't today be sweeping the Continent of Suppose we ship material to England found that almost 5,000,000 aliens regis­ ;Europe and breaking down parliamentary in one of our vessels and it is torpedoed; government; and if England had made peace what then? War! War! War! tered, aliens who are here under the pro­ early in 1917, it would have saved over 1,000,- tection of the Stars and Stripes, under 000 British, French, American, and other lives. Let Britain give up Bermuda, British the protection of the Constitution of this Honduras, and other islands in the West country. They are the people I fear to­ See what Senator REYNOLDS, of North Indies to the United States. Let them day more than anybody in Europe or Carolina, had to say and his quotations show us that they want to help us. They Asia. in the RECORD June 19, 1939, about pages are strategic possessions for us to own, LXXXVII-36 562 CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 but dangerous possessions for us. in the alty or imposing an additional burden on But that is not all the President can do. bands of any European country. the va.Dishing Treasury of the United I call attention to subsection 3 of sec­ Let me quote you from Light, the offi­ States. France and England also clung tion 3. Under that section he may au­ cial magazine of the International Truth to social reforms and social gains "in thorize defense agencies of the Govern­ Society, an editorial, volume 8, No.7, for the face of imminent danger. The lot of ment to- February 1941. Summing up what they France has become the slave of the test, inspect, prove, repair, outfit, recondi­ think of the lend-lease bill-and it ex­ despot and England now appeals to this tion, or otherwise to place in good working presses by sentiments-! quote: country to save her from destruction. order any defense article for any such gov­ The lend-lease bill is economic insanity. Every daily newspaper informs this ernment. The lend-lease bill is unethical and uncon­ Congress and the President of strikes "For any such government" means any stitutional. The lend-lease bill is totalitarian threatened and in progress in vital de­ country whose defense the President in spirit and undemocratic in operation. The fense industries, and not a finger is lifted deems vital to the defense of the United lend-lease bill is the worst blow ever deliv­ by the President to call a halt to the very ered by any President to the Constitution of States. He is the sole judge. Senator things which have contributed to the de­ BARKLEY frankly says that that section­ the United States in times of peace. The struction of other nations in times of lend-lease bill is the vestibule to war. Its could conceivably mean, for example, that passage would mean the establishment of the danger. In my own State of Michigan the British battle cruiser Renown could be President as a dictator for the defense of for­ five manufacturing plants were closed repaired in the Brooklyn Navy Yard if the eign nati<;ms, the abdication by Congress of because of strikes although they were President considered it in the interest of our the need for its own existence in the field of working on national-defense contracts. national defense to do so. foreign policy and national defense, and the The President has informed the country beginning of government by Presidential de­ publicly that social gains and social re-. Precedent seems to mean nothing to cree. Therefore the lend-lease bill must be forms must not yield even temporarily many of the present generation nor to defeated at all costs. No political compro­ the President and this administration, mises by the President and no revisions or for national defense. One dictator na­ tion in Europe has demonstrated to the and the lamp of history is disregarded as amendments by the Congress can offset or a guide to light our way in a war-mad minimize its character as unethical and un­ world how to build a national defense constitutional legislation. and produce the weapons of war which world. have accomplished incredible and unbe­ I call to the attention of the House an I ask you to amend the bill very mate­ lievable results. It was not done by so­ event in our own history that ought to rially or defeat it. It is dangerous legis­ cial reform nor social gains. It was ac­ warn us to caution and invite the most lation. complished by work, individual sacrifice, careful consideration and meditation be­ [Here the gavel fell.] self-denial, frugality, and economy in fore we commit an act which may jeop­ Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 government. We might at least look at a ardize the future welfare of our country. minutes to the gentleman from Michigan page from aggressor Europe's war primer In the midst of our Civil War the Lairds [Mr. DONDERO]. and learn something about production Shipbuilding Co., of Liverpool, England, ARE WE BEING LED INTO WAR? for national defense. built with English capital in an English We are informed by the Senate floor shipyard and manned with English sea-· Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, this leader that this bill does not waive the men, several ships having the appearance bill is entitled "A bill to promote the de­ Eight Hour Act, the Walsh-Healy Act, of ordinary merchant vessels. They later fense of the United States." It is a the Wagner Act, and similar domestic became ships of war or privateers for the strange coincidence that the number of legislation. Confederate States of America. They this bill in the House is the same as a Section 3 of this bill strikes down and were constructed and sailed from Eng­ portentous year in the history of the repeals by implication the Johnson Act lish ports with the· knowledge and con­ United States-1776-a year in which and the Neutrality Act. Many Members sent of the English Government and the struggle for independence began, a of this House will recall with what en­ over the protest of the accredited repre­ year in which the fires of war were kin­ thusiasm and aggressiveness the admin­ sentatives of our Government. . The died and bloodshed commenced. istration urged to passage the Neutrality method employed for their armament If this measure becomes law in its Act as _a means of preventing this Nation and equipment was the same for all. One present form, it too, may be the :tlint on from becoming involved in war. I shared of those ships in particular won great which the spark of the fires of war will in that enthusiasm, lifted my voice, and fame as a raider and for the destruction be struck in the year 1941. It might cast my vote in behalf of the passage of and havoc wrought upon United States very properly be designated as a bill to that act. I was moved with others, be­ commerce. She sailed from Liverpool as black out a form of government once cause of the fine objectives of that meas­ an ordinary merchantman, for the Azores known as the Republic of the United ure, that peace might be the coveted Islands. There she was met by another States; not the democracy of the United blessing of the American people. That English ship which had followed her with States, for such it never has been and is law has been shorn and stripped of every guns, ammunition, and equipment, and not now. vestige of neutrality. It is a forgotten became the famed Confederate privateer Never before in our history has the measure. Its heart and life are dead. Alabama. At the end of the War Between Congress of the United States been asked It is in the wastebasket as an obsolete the States this Nation called upon the to abdicate or surrender its war-making principle on which the Nation might English Government for damages or res­ power under the Constitution and en­ base its action, and the bill before us titution to American commerce. A neu­ trust the destiny and the fate of the Na­ will relegate it to the cemetery of for­ tral and impartial tribunal assessed the tion to one man. No other measure ever gotten dreams. damages at $15,500,000 in gold which the asked such sweeping dictatorial powers Under section 3 of this proposal, which British Government paid for her failure as this from the chosen Representatives is little short of a declaration of war, the to act the part of a neutral nation. of a free people. President, and not Congress, the Repre­ As a neutral government, she was bound to Senator BARKLEY of Kentucky, Demo­ sentatives and the Senators who are di­ use due diligence to prevent the :fitting out, cratic floor leader in the Senate, inserted rectly responsible to the people and speak arming, or equipping, within its jurisdiction, in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD on January for them, can "notwithstanding the pro­ of any vessel which it had reasonable ground 10, pages 87 and 88, a brief but candid to believe was intended to cruise or to carry visions of any other Jaw" sell our Navy, on war against a power with which England statement explaining the import and transfer our Navy, exchange our Navy, was at peace. meaning of the bill. That explanation lease our NavY, lend our Navy, or other­ clearly sets forth that national defense"is wise dispose of it to any government he If we pass this bill in its present form, subject and secondary to social reform. sees fit and with "any defense article." which clothes the President with the un­ National defense is not the first consid­ The term "any defense article" is de­ precedented power of opening our Navy eration even though we are asked to be­ fined in the bill and means "any weapon, yards "for the repair. reconditioning, out­ lieve that the Nation is in great peril. munition, aircraft, vessel, or boat." It fitting, or otherwise placing in good or­ Men must not be permitted to work more means- cer" any British battleships or cruisers, than 40 hours per week even though any machinery, facility, tool, material, or or any American pattleship or cruiser ·every patriotic American, rich or poor, supply necessary for the manufacture, pro­ for the purpose of carrying on war high or low, weak or strong, would be duction, processing, repair, servicing, or op­ against a power with which we are at willing to do so without in:tlicting a pen- eration .of any article described. peace, we will be in a far more unneutral 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 563 position with the Axis Powers than Eng­ First, complete national defense; sec­ land, while the same polls show 86 per­ land was with us in 1865. Let us remem­ ond, that we should not become em­ cent of our people opposed to actual entry ber, no matter where our sympathies may broiled .in the conflict now raging in into the war. I believe a majority of our lie, that we are supposed to be a neutral Europe; and third, that the flower of people who are advocating aid short of Nation, that we believe in neutrality, and American manhood should not be sent war do not desire us to enter the war. that we were sincere when we placed up­ abroad to engage in foreign wars. We are being edged into the war without on the statute books of the land the Neu­ The father of our country warned us the masses' knowledge. The course we trality Act. We are still at peace with not to become involved in foreign en­ are pursuing is bound to involve us in Germany and Italy, and they have not tanglements. This Nation failed to heed war. If we aid Britain short of war and committed any act of war against us. that advice a score of years ago to save beyond the limits of the Neutrality Act, Should Germany win the war and our the world for democracy. Time has it ultimately means war. We should give unneutral acts cause damage to her com­ demonstrated that the effort was futile. aid to Great Britain, China, and Greece merce or nationals, we may be held to We sacrificed the best blood of America on the basis least likely to involve us in strict accountability to her for far more and brought to our land economic bur­ war. We should·continue to aid them by flagrant violations of neutrality than we dens that generations yet unborn must furnishing war materials which are not compelled England to settle the Alabama carry. vitally essential to American defense. In claizp.s with us, and settle them in gold. Now we are asked to take another return we should have full title to naval This bill may aid freedom in the old fateful step which may lead us into the and air bases in Canada and West Indies world, but we will get something far dif­ holocaust of war and which may mean recently leased from Great Britain. We ferent in the New World. It may aid the decline or destruction of the great should also trade them war supplies for democracy to survive across the sea, but Republic of the United States. strategic materials, such as tin, rubber, it will establish some form of totalitarian I am fully aware that unjust criticism manganese, nickel, and chromium. Brit­ government here at home. This bill is will be the portion of the Members of this ain is now receiving about 85 percent of a complete black-out of our republican Congress no matter which way their the combat-plane production of the form of government. It is the complete conscience and judgment may ead them. United States. How many more planes abdication of Congress from its constitu­ Those who vote for this bill must bear can we give them without neglecting our tional duty to the people of this Nation. the stigma of "warmonger" and those own defense? Our first obligation is to Are we a nation of law-abiding people? who vote against it will be smeared as build an impregnable defense for Amer­ Does our Government recognize and unpatriotic and pro-Nazi or pro-Fascist. ica in order that no foreign power or Neither those for nor against this meas­ combination of powers can successfully obey the rules of international law and attack us. the law of nations? Pass this sweeping ure will deserve the opprobrium of such proposal, and our answer must be "no," public epithets. The common objective One thing the American people must for tt violates every principle of neutral­ of all of us, my colleagues, is that what realize is that the national-defense pro­ ity and international law. Of course, we do shall be for the best interest of our gram and aid to England will lay a heavy our sympathies are with the Allies. Our country and to promote the general wel­ burden upon every individual. We can­ sense of justice and humanity revolts fare of the American people. not meet the cost without sacrifice. To against the ruthless invasion of defense­ The Congress of the United States will postpone it to some unnamed day of less, weak, and innocent nations. We be and can be in continuous session. reckoning is to invite a major economic condemn the merciless aggression of the Rather than delegate the war-making cr~sis. Since we do not live for the hour invaders and their wanton murder of powers, vested in us by the people of we cannot escape the necessity of antici­ civilian populations. Yet we as a nation this Nation under the Constitution, to pating the slump which is certain to fol­ are at peace with the Axis Powers and the President, the better way is a close low when the force of the defense pro­ they have been careful to observe, at cooperation on the part of the Congress gram is spent. In times of great emer­ least toward us, the rules of interna­ of the United States and the President in gency there· should be a national expres­ tional law. This bill leads to war and arriving at decisions jointly, which may sion of willingness to sacrifice. It should invites it to our shores. I favor every· decide the destiny of this freedom-loving be shared by the Nation as a whole. Republic, the only one that stili remains America is on the verge of throwing our possible aid to Britain within the provi­ on tb1s earthly globe. [Applause.] sions of our laws as they were when war treasure and our blood into the European Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield to war, with the consequences that no one broke out. Such is the course of a neu­ the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. LAN­ tral nation-to remain unchanged after can foretell. I believe our true mission DIS] such time as he may desire. • hostilities have begun. is to follow the principles of foreign Mr. LANDIS. Mr. Chairman, we are policy laid down by the founders of our There are two provisions in the bill now at the crossroads of America. On country. which are dangerous to the peace and the decisions now made by our people welfare of our country. The authority George Washington warned us in his and their leaders may depend our na­ Farewell Address when he said: which will be delegated to the President tional welfare for years to come. What to convoy ships of th.... allied powers with is best for America? This is the most Europe has a set of primary interests which American vessels into the war zone and to us have none or a very remote relation. important question today. This should Hence she must be engaged in frequent con­ the further provision to repair, outfit, never be a partisan measure, and as far and recondition in American navy yards troversies, the causes of which are essentially as I am concerned there will be none, foreign to our concerns. and American harbors any warships of for my country comes first. Our slogan a belligerent nation. To permit the con­ should be "America first." Under the policy laid down by our fore­ voying of ships from American shores The minds of the American people are fathers we became the greatest democ­ into the war zone is an invitation to the confused. The issue must be presented to racy, the most powerful, and the most destruction of such ships regardless of the American people openly, honestly, prosperous in the world. For more than whether they belong to the United States and squarely. I respect the views of a hundred years we were content to work or any other unfriendly power. To per­ honest Americans, no matter how op­ out our own destiny. mit the repair and outfitting .of the ships posed they may be to my own. In 1917 we deviated from this doctrine of belligerent nations in American ports, Where is our first line of defense? Is and entered the World War to save this harbors, and navy yards means bringing it in Europe or 1is it in the Western Hemi­ country for democracy. The United the war to the shores of the United sphere? I believe it is right here at home. States received nothing from this war but States. This country, with its 130,000,000 people, a several-billion-dollar war debt, thou­ These two proposals are two dangerous its two great natural ocean barriers, and sands of wounded young men, and ship­ steps and in my opinion will ultimately a proper national defense, can defend loads of flag-draped coffins. Again this lead this Nation into the war. itself. A great nation that has to de­ administration has departed from the The bill H. R. 1776 nullifies the spirit pend on others for its defense is on the established foreign policy made by the of 1776 and the history of the United downward path to destruction. Our se­ stalwart founders of our Nation. I be­ States that followed that fateful year. curity now and for all time to come is lieve it is a grave mistake. Surely it has I believe it is the fixed and determined entirely dependent upon ourselves. not come to the point where America opinion of the great masses of the Amer­ According to the polls taken in Amer­ must raise a crop of boys every 20 years ican people that they favor: ica, most of our people favor aid to Eng- to be slaughtered in Europe. We do not 5(}4 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 4 want to create a new generation of Gold We must. keep America out of Europe this bill. We emerged from one of the Star Mothers. and Europe out of America. As a veteran most bitter, one of the most heated, Presi­ We can preserve American democracy of the World War, I fervently believe dential campaigns in the history of this by keeping entirely out of the European that we should never again soak Europe's country last November. During that war. We have made some noble ad­ soil with American blood. [Applause.] campaign many of us on the Republican vances in the long march toward justice, Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 side traveled from one end of the coun­ freedom, and democracy. If we go to minutes to the gentleman from New York try to the other and predicted that if the war we cast away our opportunity and [Mr. WILLIAM T. PHEIFFER]. New Deal administration was returned to cancel our gains. We must not lose our Mr. WILLIAM T. PHEIFFER. Mr. power for another 4 years it would spell democracy at home while seeking to pre­ Chairman, I am well aware of the time­ the end of our democratic processes and serve democracy abroad. honored tradition which has it that a our American way of doing things. I War, in reality, is the destroyer of life new Member of Congress should take it went back to my native Southwest and and property. War means blackouts) easy for the fl.rst few months, observe preached that gospel all the way from shrieking shells, and speeding bombing the procedure of the House, and listen to Tulsa to Santa Fe. A m::~jority of the planes across the sky. Most of us re­ the debates as engaged in by more sea­ voters discounted those predictions 100 member the horrors of the last war and soned Members. In ordinary times this percent on November 5. We emerged on its aftermath; the dead upon the bat­ unwritten rule would especially apply to November 6 a united people. We hoped tlefl.elds, disease, the bitter tears of wo­ me, for the reason that this is the fl.rst that our fears wo1,1ld not materialize; manhood, and hospitals where armless, time I have ever sat in a legislative body; that everything would be very smooth in legless, and blinded men await eternity. as a matter of fact, it is the fl.rst time I our relations domestically; and that par­ We also recall the terrible depression, the have ever held public office. It may truly tisanship would not enter into the formu­ insufferable burdens of costs, and the dis­ be said that I have come to the House lating of our country's foreign policies. location of everything that makes for fresh from the people. Yet, with tragic suddenness, just 2 normal happiness. ·However, these are not ordinary times. months after that election, we fl.nd those Members of Congress and the President Ir~ this crucial period of our Nation's predictions of the end of democratic proc­ are responsible for the safety of the history the people from all over the coun­ esses hanging over the heads of the American people. Congress must main­ try are pleading to be heard through the American people like the sword of Dam­ tain the right to declare war as laid down voices of their chosen representatives. ocles. ·Within 2 months after being by the Constitution. They cannot be here in person 130,000,- returned to office we fl.nd our President The present lease-lend bill asks for an 000 strong, but this is their forum and it reaching out for personal power, in the enormous grant of Executive power. It is here that they are entitled to express form of this bill, beyond the wildest takes only a majority in Congress to grant their views through us. Therefore, I ask dreams of a Caesar or an Alexander. Is all power to the President but, lacking a your indulgence while I, after being in it not signifl.cant that the President time limit, would require a two-thirds Congress all of 1 month, give you my waited only 2 weeks after his inaugura­ vote to take it back. observations on what I conceive to be the tion in 1937 to storm the ramparts of the This bill confers upon the President the sentiments of a majority of my constitu­ Constitution in his effort to pack the capacity to make alliances of defense and ents on H. R. 1776, the so-called lease­ Supreme Court, and we fl.nd him moving offense with any government in the world. lend bill, which, in my judgment, is a in the same direction, but with more It does not specify or delimit the coun­ dangerous and deceptive bill. sweeping strides, 2 weeks before his in­ tries with which the President can make When I say that I am giving you the auguration in 1941, when he came to this such alliances. sentiments of a majority of my constitu­ Chamber with his message on the 6th of Section 3 of this bill confers upon the ents, I speak advisedly for the reason January. President the power to enter into a mili­ that I have recently conducted a poll in · While I hold no brief for some of the tary alliance with any nation that he my district which has given me a rather practices of the great utility companies, might see fl.t, and it does not have to be clear insight of the thoughts of my peo­ and I am not here to defend them, yet referred to the Senate for ratifl.cation. ple on this. most important piece of legis­ the. power grab frequently charged Further, section 3, through conferring lation. When I speak of it ·as a danger­ agamst the utilities by the administration upon the President the power to make ous bill I do not use the word "dangerous" is small potatoes compared with Mr. defensive military alliances with any in a general sense; oh, no. Despite the Roosevelt's grab for power. Not only is cvuntry, confers upon him the power to fact that the relations between this coun­ he seeking to vest himself with many of make war en any country. try and England during the past 22 years the fundamental rights and powers Section 3 (b) provides that the Presi­ have not been characterized by sweetness vested in Congress by the Constitution dent can make such agreements for de­ and light, despite the fact that England but he is seeking to set himself up as ~ livery of war materials on such terms as welched on a war debt of something like one-man board to exercise them as and he might see fl.t. Under this bill he could $4,500,000,000, which, incidentally, had it when he alone sees fl.t to do so. While give away the entire United States Fleet been paid on schedule, might have gone I certainly do not subscribe to the political and all of the airplanes owned by the far toward softening the impact of our philosophy of the late Huey Long, yet I Army and Navy. 1929 depression, and despite the fact that . do want to call the attention of the House England added insult to injury by calling ~o an amaz i ~g remark made by Mr. Long Under section 9 the President may pro­ us Uncle Shylock-despite all these con­ m one of his prescient moments. Here mulgate such rules and regulations as siderations, Mr. Chairman, in my judg­ is what he said: may be proper to carry out the provisions ment the vast majority of the people of of this act. Government arsenals could When fascism comes to America, It will be my district and in the entire United called antifascism. manufacture trucks in direct competition States are fully in accord with the aim with private enterprise. The President of this bill so far as it relates to giving The spectacle of the head of our Gov­ can waive the provisions of the Bacon­ material aid to England in the coura­ ernment seeking unexampled personal Davis Act, the Eight Hour Act, and other geous fl.ght it is putting up against the power under the guise of promoting the laws regulating employment in Govern­ overwhelming odds offered by the Ger­ defense of the United States against the ment establishments. many of Adolf Hitler, whose ideologies forces of totalitarianism brings us the Since Congress is in session, and will and whose tyrannies and oppressions are stark realization that Mr. Long was not remain in session, ready to take action a stench in the nostrils of every decent uttering an empty prophecy. to meet any emergency, it is not neces­ man and woman on the face of the globe. I am not speaking in a jealous or selfish sary to unload such enormous powers I charge that this bill is dangerous in spirit against the abdication in bulk by and responsibilities upon the shoulders the sense that it tramples roughshod on Congress of its powers and prerogatives of any one man. It is not necessary to the American principles and precepts of and the transfer thereof to the White create a dictatorship in America to fl.ght government which have been the very House. There is no room in this situation dictatorship abroad. Let us be on guard foundation stones of our society since the for personal feelings, but I do earnestly constantly lest we be left ultimately with birth of the Nation. In my judgment, maintain that we cannot turn over lock, the empty shell of what we are now something fl.ne and vital was taken out of stock, and barrel to the Executive those arming to defend. democracy by the mere introduction of powers which the people of the United 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 565 States have reposed in trust with the 531 liberation of all bills and commitments of Summing up, let us expand our pro­ Members of the Senate and the House of this Nation are far more important than duction of arms and armament to the Representatives. It is a trust tinged with speed when such bills have so many far­ reaching effects on every man, woman, and limit so that we may, directly and not by an interest only in the proportion that child in the United States. indirection, build an unassailable defense the number 531 bears to the number for our own shores and, at the same time, 130,000,000. It has been wisely said that I wish I had the time to speak on the strengthen the arm of Great Britain by the basis of all authority is the free con­ economic aspects of this bill. I do not selling, or trading, to her all materials sent of a majority of the people. If this have that time, but suffice it to say that and implements of war which are not bill is passed in its present form it will when we speak of giving the President a needed for home defense. While we are be an unauthorized act, in the sense that blank check we are speaking of a by­ faced by a · Herculean task, it can all be it will not be based upon the free consent gone theory, a theory that is as dead as done as speedily and effectively within of a majority of the American people. the fabulous "dodo bird," because a man the framework of the Constitution as In so acting, we will be betraying our does not need a blank check when you without. Our American system of gov­ trust and at the same time label our­ give him the key to the front door of the ernment has not been found wanting in selves as a ~ubservient body that jumps bank and the combination to the safe. other great emergencies, and it will suc­ whenever the President say~ frog. That is exactly what we are doing under cessfully weather this storm. [Here the gavel fell.] section 6 stranger to it, represent­ veteran himself. Can he tell us whether was said, because Ford would not sign a· ing over 300,000 Americans, I realize most he has received many communications in blanket contract to observe all labor profoundly- the great responsibility rest­ respect to this bill from veterans? laws, which, being interpreted, meant to ·ing upon me in this solemn hour. In all Mr. CANFIELD. I have received many comply with the demands of the Labor of the 18 years of his service, fraught as communications from veterans of foreign Board, lawful or unlawful, and with the they were with many vexatious prob­ wars, and most of them are opposed to demands of the officials representing the lems, my late chief was never called upon the bill as written. In this connection. C. I. 0. to vote for or against a bill as important let me tell you the story of a revealing The situation then is this: Congress nor -as revolutionary as is the bill now letter that I received the other day. In gives the President authority and money pending. Keeping in mind his mature the city of Passaic, in my congressional to buy defense materials. He can buy convictions and my oath recently taken district, we have a memorial park where them of Ford and get them quicker and to support the Constitution, the vote I scores of sturdy oak trees are dedicated cheaper than from any other source. But shall cast this week will be one with which to the memory of the boys who fell over­ his man Patterson of the War Depart­ I shall have to live all the remaining days seas in 1917-18. Just the other day I re­ ment will not purchase them of Ford be­ of my life. That vote shall represent ceived a letter from a nephew of one of cause the President's man Hillman act­ my true convictions. I shall not gamble those boys whose memorial is in Passaic Memorial Park. He said: ing as a member of the Defense Com­ with fate nor with expediency. Search­ mi~sion, insists that the Ford employees ing my conscience I shall with heart, I am opposed to this bill, H. R. 1776, as must join his C. I. 0. before production mind, and soul vote for what I conceive written, and I don't want any oak in that can go forward on the order of the War to be the best interests· of our beloved memorial park named in my honor. Department. country. Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I now yield I am not an isolationist. Nor am I an to the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. But that is not the end of the coercion appeaser, a term of opprobrium of which HOFFMAN]. the abuse, and the misuse of Federai we hear little or nothing since the lifting power. Hiding behind and taking ad­ WHY GRANT POWER UNLESS IT IS USED AS vantage of Hillman's official position with of the moral embargo against Russia, a INTENDED? dictator nation not so long ago excoriated the Government-and, by the way Hill­ by the White House for its ruthless at­ Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, why man is serving two masters, the F~deral tacks on Finland. And as God is my should Congress grant power to the Government and the C. I. 0.-R. J. judge I am not an interventionist. executive department so long as that Thomas, president of the Detroit u. A. Like most Americans I ardently wish department exerts itself to prevent the W. A., C. I. 0., marches to the front and to see Great Britain victorious over the accomplishment of the very things for declares that defense materials shall not Axis Powers, and to that end would gladly which the power was granted? come out of the Ford Motor Co. When vote for speedy and liberal financial aid In the present bill the Chief Executive Knudsen sent his representative to through the media of our lending agen­ is asking the legislative branch to give Michigan's capital and Michigan's Gov­ cies, and if sufficient collateral were not him unlimited authority to prepare for ernor called in 150 manufacturers to tell national defense, to extend aid to Great them that the situation was most serious forthcoming then to extend that aid as a and that production must be speeded up, gift. This, in my judgment, coUld be Britain, even though it be acknowledged done promptly and without the circum­ that so doing will involve us in the war. Mr. Thomas, the president of the U. A-: The Chief Executive has heretofore W. A., arose and brazenly announced locution and dangerous grants of power "I'm going to do everything I can to stop to one man provided in this bill. What asked us to give him the authority and the money to prepare for national de­ production at the Ford Motor Co." That more than by this simple and expeditious was on the 28th day of January. method could those ask who want to give fense. We gave him that authority and aid to Great Britain, and at the same time we appropriated billions of dollars to en­ A press dispatch of January 31 shows safeguard our system tlf representative able him to prepare for national defense. that Mr. Thomas, speaking at a meeting of the Genesee County Bar Association government? To prepare for national defense, the at Flint, Mich., said: Mr. Chairman, I do not go along with President established a Defense Commis­ those who seem to feel that we must now sion and on that Commission he put Sid­ I won't guarantee to anyone there won't go in for total war, nor do I take kindly ney Hillman, who is one of the vice be a strike at Ford's. I'm going to try to to those off-the-record sentiments from presidents of the C. I. 0. cause one. military and other sources that we are Among the firms which can, which will And what is the issue? It is again the in war right now. · if permitted, supply, and which are now closed shop. The President backs Hill­ The welter of hearings on this bill, and engaged in supplying the materials for man, vice president of the C. I. 0., in his I have followed them closely, have been our national defense is the Ford Motor demand that no American can work at anything but enlightening. Regardless Co. While the Ford Motor Co. is engaged the Ford Co. unless he puts money in of their pros and cons it was the deliber­ in building trucks ordered and required the pockets of Hillman's organization. ate and designed purpose of those in con­ for national defense, the C. I. 0., of which And Hillman backs Thomas, who, regard­ trol to give aid to Britain only as that Sidney Hillman of the Defense Commis- less of orders for defense materiel, boldly 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE 567 announces that he is going to do what he Does anyone in this House want to give You are again reminded that Hitler's can to tie up the Ford Motor Co., en­ such aid to Britain, while her own Do­ powers granted by the Reichst.ag in 1933, gaged in war orders, with a strike. minions conserve, here in our very Na­ and more restricted than the powers con-· Now, il} all candor, I ask this Congress· tion, their resources and dollar credits? tained in this bill, were limited to 4 years. why grant mo:re power or more funds to I hope not. It is my observation, in my That was in 1933-it is now 1941. The the President to prepare for national de­ short time here, that a bill to give direct German emergency continues, at first in fense so long as defense materials can aid to Britain in the form of credits, after their false economy, which must surely be produced only by those men given per­ the exhaustion of her own and her Do­ break, and now in bloody war. mission to work by R. J. Thomas, head of minions' liquidable assets, would receive A time limit on a dictator means noth­ the C. I. 0. in Michigan? the overwhelming support of this House. ing. With the treasury and the sword Why give Franklin D. Roosevelt power Such a bill would have a voided all of the what more would any dictator want? and money to prepare for national de­ public confusion which has characterized The amendments, as proposed in the fense so Jong a& R. J. Thomas sits on the this legislation. committee report, appear to me to be lid? There is, however, another kind of aid nothing but sops to appease a conscience Why not first pass a law requiring Mr. that we might give to Britain. ·We might or to tempt a vote. Thomas and Mr. Hillman to permit the give her, or lend her-and in this case it The future course of America will be production of defense materials in the in­ matters little which-our actual and charted by this bill. In my belief, with dustrial plants of the country? necessary defensive implements of war. the belligerent attitude and determina­ The issue. which I raise is not a politi­ To. this I am unalterably opposed. To tion already displayed by the President,· cal issue. It is a practical issue, which this, I believe, the American people are and his absolute disregard for the value has to do with production and, sooner or unalterably opposed. If it is the purpose of money or the pain of taxes, the course· later, the American people are going to of some of the Members of the House to charted is the road to war, undeclared asl{ their Congressmen why it is that they give away a part of our Navy, or a part of probably, but nevertheless; war; useless vote money, billions .of dollars, for na­ our Army equipment, then why do not mass murder of our people ,plus decades tional defense, and then permit a few the proponents of such action frankly of a living hell for the survivors. loud-speaking, lawless-acting individ­ state their purpose .by introducing such I believe that every Member of this uals to prevent the production of those. a bill? It is my belief that such a bill House before he can conscientiously vote Uiaterials. would be overwhelmingly rejected and for this bill must first satisfy himself that When that time comes I am going to that no one knows it any better than the he is ready to cast a vote for war. I shall be able to say to my constituents that I President himself. This bill permits the do everything in my power to help make· did everything I could to carry out the President to make such gifts. If it is not defense program. [Applause.] this Natio~ strong economically and· the purpose of the President to give away strong in its military defenses, but I Will Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 7 any of our own. defense equipment, then minutes to the gentleman from Missouri not, knowingly, vote for any bill, ambigu-· why does he ask for such power? ous as ft may be, which may lead to either [Mr. PLOESERL It has been claimed that this legisla­ dictatorship, or war, or both. Mr. PLOESER. Mr. Chairman, I am tion would speed up defense production. The questions as I see them are two: fully aware of the reticence with which a It is perfectly clear that this is not true, First. Dictatorship or democracy? new Member should assume his duties in and I do not for 1 minute believe that Second. War or peace? this House. It is th~refore. with humility any Member of this House has been mis­ I shall choose by my vote-democracy_ that I approach what I deem to be my led by any.such propaganda. The.public, and peace. [Applause.] patriotic duty. For me to keep silent however, are not sure on this point. A Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 when privileged with time in which to portion of the public have been misled minutes to the gentleman from Minne-· speak on a subject so momentous as the into believing that this is a defense sota [Mr. GALE]. bill now before this House, would be an measure directly and immediately bene­ injury to my conscience and a display of ficial to our own defense program. I Mr. GALE. Mr. Chairman, H. R. 1776 weakness in my devotion to my country. would give the President full privilege of ha:s been before Congress for almost a· month. It has been discussed here and I am deeply concerned. find nothing so beneficia~ in this bill. . Every member is fully aware that the None have denied that this measure in every part of the Nation and I venture President now could commit many acts the public purse. However, it has been to say that everyone agrees in one par­ which would actually prompt hostilities inferred by the chairman c! the Com­ ticular, namely, that this so-called lend­ and leave this Congress with no other al­ mittee on Foreign Affairs that such a lease bill is the most important issue now ternative but to declare war. This bill is limit on the President's power of the confronting Congress. ·ns provisions are provocative. purse existed in the language of the bill, well known, if its implications are not, so· . The public, as well as the House, realize wherein it is stated "in the interests of that I shall devote my time to considera­ also that it is the defined intent of this national defense." This bill, as I read it, tion· of the results which may well follow administration to give all possible aid to vests in the President the discretionary the passage of this act in its present form. Britain. Though I find a surprisingly power to be the sole judge of the emer­ Let us consider only for a moment the great number of my own people against gency and of what constitutes "in the in­ extraordinary power which the bill ·vests. any aid to Britain, I still believe that it terests of national defense." Therefore, in one man. He- meets with the general approval of the sky is the limit. If you pass this First. May acquire and give away any­ Americans to aid Britain in her life bill H. R. 1776, the President will lend thing in this country from foodstuff to struggle. and spend, while the Congress will ap­ tanks and battleships-or he may not. Now, if the aim of this Nation is to aid propriate and appropriate, and tax and Second. He may give or loan on any Great Britain and yet take no actual part tax, while the people sweat and suffer terms to England, China, Greece, or any in the hostilities ourselves, then I suggest under the load. Pass this bill, and the other nation or he may spend within this that we deal plainly and candidly with American people will pay in taxes what country any amount of money-or he our people and get down to the direct half of the world can destroy in war. If may not. business of determining how much aid we such broad provision is constitutional, Third. He may disregard any existing are willing, and able, to give. It is our which I question, I would not vote such law to the extent of virtually conscript­ duty to make the acts of this Congress as power to any man. Loose fiscal policy in ing labor and confiscating property-or plain as our intentions. this Nation must be stopped. There is he may not. What power does this bill give the only one place in the Nation that it can It is unnecessary to dwell on the un­ President in his program of "aid" that be stopped, and that is in this very Con­ pleasant fact that by passing such an act he does not now have? You might an­ gress. Congress may be setting the stage for a swer that it gives the President the power It has been suggested by amendment dictator, the very menace that we are to extend credits or gifts to the British. that a time limit be put upon these pow­ trying to avoid. Nor is it necessary to When shall we give credits? Does any ers. The power is no less because of a mention the strictly temporary grant of Member of this House wish to extend time limit. I firmly believe that these special power by the German Reichstag credits to England before England ex­ powers make of the President a dictator. to the Chancelor who happened to be hausts her own resources in this Nation? A time limit makes him no less a dictator. Adol! Hitler. This temporary delegation 568 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE . FEBRUARY 4 of power was made on March 23, 1933, the passage of H. R. 1776, then convoy, George H. Kless made before the Com· and was to end 4 years later. It is air force, expenditionary force. mittee on Foreign Affairs. now 8 years since the act was passed and I say again that the real issue before The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without if I am correct, Hitler still enjoys abso­ us is war. As a nation we neither want objection, it is so ordered. lute power without hindrance from the such a war nor, at the moment, are we in There was no objection. Reichstag. a position to fight such a war if we did ADJOURNMENT Aside from this important aspect of the want it. Very few Americans feel called bill I would like to speak of the immediate upon to die in Flanders Field for either Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Speaker, I ' move consequences which are of equal concern democracy or the British Empire. [Ap­ that the House do now adjourn. to the Nation and which may occur under plause.] The motion was agreed to; accordingly the leadership of those whose inclinations Mr. FISH. :)Mr. Chairman, for the (at 6 o'clock and 59 minutes p. m.) the and sentiments are unmistakable, in their benefit of those who may be here and also the House adjourned until tomorrow, enthusiasm for more active participation the distinguished Chairman of the Com­ Wednesday, February 5, 1941, at 12 in the war. mittee, I wish to state that I have re­ o'clock noon. · With due regard for our own defense quests for tomorrow from 35 Members needs and with the consent of Congress, who want to speak. That will probably EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC. let us continue to do everything possible mean going fairly late at night so they for Britain in the way of supplies and may be heard. All of those have come to Under clause 2 of rule XXIV, executive munitions. There is nothing that the me of their own accord and asked for communications were taken from the supporters of this bill say they want that time. Speaker's table and referred as follows: cannot now be granted by means of the Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Chairman, I move 165. A communication from the President existing machinery and a sympathetic that the Committee do now rise. of the United States, transmitting an est! .. Congress, even to the point of extending The motion was agreed to. mate of appropriation, amounting to $191,200, credit through the Export-Import Bank. Accordingly the Committee rose; and to supplement an appropriation contained in the Second Deficiency Appropriation Act, 1940, Without question the people of the United the Speaker pro tempore [Mr. JARMAN] for constructing and equipping two surveying States are sympathetic toward England having resumed the chair, Mr. PoAGE, vessels for the Coast and .Geodetic Survey, De­ and sincerely would like to see Hitler de­ Chairman of the Committee of the Whole partment of Commerce (H. Doc. No. 68); to feated, but let us not confuse "sympathy" House on the state of the Union, reported the Committee on Appropriations and or .. with a desire to sacrifice untold wealth, that that Committee, having had under dered to be printed. personal liberty, and priceless lives in a consideration the bill (H. R. 1776) to 166. A ·letter from the Acting Secretary of long, bitter war. :further promote the defense of the United the Navy, transmitting draft of a proposed States, and for other purposes, had come b111 "to provide an additional sum for the H. R. 1776, if passed, may be the dec­ payment of claims under the act entitled 'An laration of such a war and probably the to no resolution thereon. act to provide for the reimbursement of cer .. only declaration that Congress will be CALENDAR VVEDNESDAY tain personnel or former personnel of the · called upon to make. Stripped of high­ United States Navy and United States Marine sounding phrases, of timid misconception, Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan­ Corps for the value of personal effects de­ stripped of reluctance to face the truth, imous consent that business in order on stroyed as a result of a fire at the Marine the issue before the country is not merely Calendar Wednesday may be dispensed Barracks, Quantico, Va., on October 27, 1938,' the lend-lease bill, but whether we shall wit.h tomorrow. approved June 19,1939"; to the Committee on have war. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without Claims. objection, it is so ordered. 167. A letter from the Acting Secretary of What does "all-out aid to Britain" Commerce, transmitting a report of funds really mean? Is it possible at the mo­ There was no objection. received by the Bureau of the Census to de .. ment to give more practical material aid EXTENSION OF REMARKS fray cost of special statistical" studies upon than we are giving-87 percent of our payment of the cost thereof; to the Com .. aircraft production, including bomb Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Speaker, the gentle­ mlttee on Expenditures in the Executive De­ sights, priority in munitions, and already man from Texas [Mr. KLEBERG J asked to­ partments. 50 destroyers? The critical period for day for unanimous consent to extend the 168. A communication from the President Britain will not be in 8 months or a year remarks he was going to make on the of the United States, transmitting supple­ floor today. Not being able to do so, I ask mental estimates of appropriation for the when the United States can deliver-the Railroad Retirement Board, fiscal year 1941, time for all-out aid is right now, today, unanimous consent that that permission amounting to $462,000 (H. Doc. No. 69); to before the Nazis strike and if the pro­ be extended until tomorrow. the Committee on Appropriations and ordered ponents of this bill were honest with The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without to be printed. themselves they would tell us that such objection, it is so ordered. 169. A communication from the President aid logically means doing two things: There was no objection. of the United States, transmitting a supple­ mental estimate of appropriation for the First. The use of our Navy to convoy GENERAL LEAVE TO EXTEND REMARKS and even more important, to help hold Public Health Service, Federal Security Agency, for the fiscal year 1941; amounting to the channel which is the vital link in Mr. BLOOM. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan .. $525,000 (H. Doc. 70); to the Committee on British defense. imous consent that all Members of the Appropriations and ordered to be printed. Second. The immediate despatch of House may have 5 legislative days within 170. A l~tter from the Secretary of the Navy, our air fo!rce-brave and well-trained which to extend their own remarks on the transmittmg a report of all contracts entered boys doomed to death in antiquated bill now under consideration. into under authority of section 4 of Public planes. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there No. 43, Seventy-sixth Congress, together with objection? copies of contracts concerned, for the period Both of these moves are ill-advised and June 11-December 31, 1940; to the Committee impractical. The first would leave the There was no objection. on Naval Affairs. Pacific wide open. The second would rob EXTENSION OF REMARKS 171. A letter from the Acting Secretary of us of what little air force we have. As­ the Treasury, transmitting a copy of a pro .. suming, however, that these unwise and Mr. FISH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani­ posed bill to carry to the surplus fund of the fatal steps were taken-and they well mous consent that the gentleman from Treasury certain trust funds derived from might be under the lend-lease enthusi­ Pennsylvania [Mr. RicH] may have the compensating taxes collected pursuant to sec­ asm-and also assuming that the English right to insert some brief quotations in tion 15 (e) of title I of the act of May 12, 1933 (48 Stat. 40), as amended, upon certain ar­ survive the coming summer, our fighting his remarks made today. ticles coming into the United States; to the spirit, prodded by our leaders and by The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without Committee on Ways and Means. propaganda would demand an expedi­ objection, it is so ordered. tionary force, the ultimate and inevitable There was no objection. result of H. R. 1776. Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUB­ This, gentlemen, is the logical sequence. unanimous consent that my colleague the LIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS This is the true meaning of that vague gentleman from Michigan [Mr. HOFF .. Under clause 2 of rule XIII, slogan, "All-out aid to Britain." This is MAN] may be permitted to extend his re­ Mr. TREADVVAY: Committee on Ways and the realistic vie_w of the future: First, marks and also to print a statement by Means. Part II, minority views on H. R. 296~. 1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 569 A bill to increase the debt limit of the United made by the Federal land banks and the Land States, to provide for the Federal taxation of Bank Commissioner; to the Committee on HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES future issues of obligations of the United Agdculture. States and its instrumentalities, and for other WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 1941 purposes (Rept. No. 20). Referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of MEMORIALS The House met at 12 o'clock noon. the Union. Under clause 3 of rule XXII, memorials Rev. James A. Reeves, s .. T. D., presi­ were presented and referred as follows: dent, Seton Hill College, Greensburg, Pa., offered the following prayer: CHANGE OF REFERENCE By the SPEAKER: Memorial of the Legisla­ Under clause 2 of rule XXII, the Com­ ture of the State of Montana, memorializing Father, creator of the world, redeem­ mittee on Claims was discharged from the President and the Congress of the United ing Son, and sanctifying holy spirit, we the consideration of the bill (H. R. 1497) States to consider their senate joint me­ ajore Thee. We acknowledge Thy end­ for the relief of the heirs of William H. morial No. 2, with reference to democracy; to less .30vereignty. We trust in Thee. "At Peters and Washington Reed, and the · the Committee on the Judiciary. sundry times and in diverse manners" same was referrfd to the Comn;tittee on Thou hast spoken to mankind, particu­ War Claims. PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS larly through Thy only begotten Son. We thank Thee for this revelation deep­ PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS Under clause 1 of rule XXII, private ening our knowledge of Thee and nurtur­ bills and resolutions were introduced and Under clause 3 of rule XXII, public severally referred as follows: ing our love of Thee. bills and resolutions were introduced and We cherish Thy utterance. We rev­ By Mr. BROWN of Ohio: erence Thy word as the source of the severally referred as follows: H . R . 3074. A bill granting an increase of By Mr. BEITER: pension to Georgian D. Harris; to the Com­ law that prevails amongst us. In this H. R. 3063. A bill for the erection of a public mittee on Invalid Pensions. law we see the unfolding of Thy ·dear building at Cheektowaga, Erie County, N.Y.; By Mr. COLE of New York: providence, heartening and strengthen­ to t he Committee on Public Buildings and H. R. 3075. A bill granting an increase of ing us, caring for us in sorrow and in Grounds. pension to Arzilla A. Bailey; to the Com­ joy. By Mr. NORRELL: mittee on Invalid Pensions. H. R. 3064. A bill to amend the project for Let Thy kindly grace brighten our un-· By Mr. GEHRMANN: flood control of the lower Mississippi River derstanC.ing and quicken our love for H R . 3076. A bill for the relief of R. Stern; Thee, so that Thy blessed word may ever adopted by the act of May 15, 1928, as amend­ to the Committee on Claims. ed by the acts of June 15, 1936, August 28, safeguard the law whereby we live. 1937, and June 28, 1938; to the Committee By Mr. GORE: Help all men to revere that law. Help on Flood Control. H. R. 3077. A bill for the relief of the Leba­ them to revere the ways in which it is By Mr. RANDOLPH: non Woolen Mills, Inc.; to the Committee on Claims. made. This, too, is Thy gift. It is a H. R . 3065. A bill to amend the act of Con­ holy gift. We are grateful. gress approved July 14, 1932, entitled "An act H . R. 3078. A bill authorizing the President to amend an act of Congress approved June of the United States to appoint Sgt. Alvin C. Be mindful, 0 Lord, of all who make 18, 1898, entitled 'An act to regulate plumbing York as a colonel in the United States Army the law. Give them light and strength. and gas fitting in the District of Columbia' "; and then place him on the retired list; to Be mindful of the institutions that em­ to the Committee on the District of Columbia.- the Committee on Military Affairs. body it. Keep these safe. Let them en­ H. R. 3066. A bill to amend an act to pro­ By Mr. HEFFERNAN: H. R. 3079. A bill conferring jurisdiction dure. Be mindful of all Thy people here vide for a union railroad station in the Dis­ and everYWhere; they are redeemed by trict of Columbia, and for other purposes; upon the .Court of Claims of the United States to the Committee on the District of Columbia. to consider and render judgment on the claim the worshipful blood of Christ, who with H. R. 3067. A bill to amend the act of Con­ of the Cuban-American Sugar Co. against the Thee and Thy holy spirit abides ever one gress approved May 3, 1935, entitled "An act United States; to the Committee on Claims. God. Amen. By Mr. HEIDINGER: to promote public safety on the highways of The Journal of the proceedings of yes­ the District of Columbia by providing for the H. R. 3080. A bill granting a pension to financial responsibility of owners and oper­ Be:rtie E. Williams; to the Committee on Pen­ terday was read and approved. ators of motor vehicles for damages caused sions. By Mr. McGEHEE: IDENTIFICATION TO ENTER NAVY DEPARTMENT by motor vehicles on the public highways in BUILDING the District of Columbia, to prescribe penal­ H. R. 3081. A bill for the relief of Ervine J. ties for t he violation of the provisions of this Stenson; to the Committee on Claims. The SPEAKER laid before the House act, and for other purposes"; to the Commit­ H. R. 3082. A bill for the relief of Mattie E. the following communication from the tee on the District of Columbia. Baumgarten; to the Committee on Claims. Acting Secretary of the Navy: H. R. 3068. A bill to amend an act entitled H. R. 3083. A bill for the relief of Billy H. "An act to provide that all cabs for hire in Quin; to the Committee on Claims. DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY, the District of Columbia be compelled to By Mr. RAMSPECK: OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY, carry insurance for the protection of pas­ H. R. 3084. A bill for the relief of Hugh C. Washington, January 31, 1941. sengers, and for other purposes," approved Russell; to the Committee on Claims. The Honorable SAM RAYBURN, June 29 , 1938; to the Committee on the Dis­ H. R. 3085. A bill granting a pension to Lina Speaker of the House of Representatives. tiict of Columbia. S. Terrell; to the Committee on Invalid Pen­ MY DEAR MR. SPEAKER: The Navy Depart­ By Mr. BOYKIN: sions. ment has just instituted a change in the H . R. 3069. A bill granting permanent total­ By Mr. SMITH of West Virginia: security system heretofore in use for the pro­ d isability rating to veterans suffering serv­ H. R. 3086. A bill for the relief of Harold tection of the contents of the Department ice-connected tuberculosis disability if such E. Marquis; to the Committee on· Claims. building. disease remains active after 2 years' hos­ By Mr. SABATH: You, of course, agree that, under the cir­ pit alizat ion; to the Committee on World War H. R. 3087. A bill for the relief of Et hel cumstances, improvements in that respect Vet erans' Legislation. Cohen; to the Committee on Claims. were not only desirable but essential. By Mr. McGEHEE: . By Mr. SACKS: One of the most obvious features is one II. R . 3070. A bill to aid the several States H. R. 3088. A bill for the relief of Harry requiring identification of visitors; i. e., all in making, or for having made, certain toll Solomon; to the Committee on Military persons not regularly employed within the bridges on the system of Federal-aid high­ Affairs. building. It goes without saying that it is ways free bridges, and for other purposes; to By Mr. SASSCER: my desire that no annoyance .of any kind the Com mittee on Roads. H . R. 3089. A bill for the relief of Marie B. will be caused any Member of the Congress By Mr. DISNEY: Neale; to the Committee on Claims. or their representatives when they have oc­ H . R. 3071. A bill to amend certain provi­ By Mr. SCHWERT: casion to visit the Department. With that sions of the Internal Revenue Code relating to H . R. 3090. A bill for the relief of Marian object in mind and further for the protec­ man ufacturers' and producers' taxes on gaso­ Cichy; to the Committee on Immigration and tion of the employees who are charged wit h line and lubric~ting oil; to the Committee on Naturalization. the responsibility of executing the plan, I Ways and Means. By Mr. THILL: request that you acquaint all Members of H. R. 3072. A bill amending section 3460 of H. R. 3091. A bill for the relief of Martin J. the House of Representatives with the neces­ the Internal Revenue Code; to the Commit­ Price; to the Committee on Claims. sity of their identity being made known upon tee on Ways and Means. By Mr. VINCENT of Kentucky: their entry into the Department building. By Mr. ROBS!ON of Kentucky: H. R. 3092. A bill for the relief of the widow The place established for that purpose is just H. R. 3073. A bill relating to the payment and children of Dr. Joe M. Ferguson; to the inside the main entrance, Eighteenth Street of principal and interest on certain loans Committee on Claims. and Constitution Avenue.