Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 1

Subject: Victor

Location: Middletown, New York

Date: November 1, 2002

Interviewer: Steve Periard

The date is November 1, 2002 and we’re here interviewing…we’re in Middletown, New York and we’re interviewing Victor.

SP: Hi, Victor.

VF: Hello.

SP: Victor, where and when were you born?

VF: Ah, Horton Memorial Hospital right here in Middletown on 5/20/68.

SP: And do you have brothers and sisters?

VF: Two natural sisters and two half brothers.

SP: And what do your parents do for a living?

VF: (Long pause) That’s a hard question. Um…

SP: You don’t have to answer it.

VF: Well, ah, I never known them to actually hold a job. But my dad he was primarily alcoholic. He came from a military background and my mom, she was a heroin coke addict. Um, and I’ve never known her to actually work. Um…they both died when I was fourteen and I was taken away from them when I was seven so, I mean, I don’t know much about them except what was read to me out of their wills when they died it mentioned how they lived their lives and they were both very chronically ill.

SP: So, where were you taken?

VF: Ah, to Rockland Children’s…Department of Social Services took me away from my family when I was four, um, because of some of the abuses that were going on…physical, sexual, um, and some traumatizing, ah…abuses that were taking place in the home. And because of those things, um, the Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 2

Department of Social Services felt that it was needed that all children be taken away from my mom and dad…me and both my natural sisters.

SP: How did Social Services find out that this stuff was going on?

VF: Through neighbors. Um, (long pause) because of the severity of the traumas that were going on, the neighbors got involved and on a number of occasions they had tried before the age of four, um, to get the Social Services involved and they weren’t willing to because of my natural dad’s other wife ‘cause he’s married to two women. That’s, ah, other wife…he had two sons by. She would always have a way with the court ‘cause she had lots of money and because of his military background and stuff like that he was, ah, highly honored, ah, that and everything, so, um, they…they didn’t want to tamper basically is what would…the word that we were getting. My mom had him arrested on numerous times when we were in the house, when we were growing up and he always seemed to be back a couple of weeks later. Um, from what we were told was that, um, the other woman that was in his life was always bailing him out of jail and naturally, um, he was thankful to her but he would us as his…I guess what you call his aggression tool and then I was admitted…finally admitted to Rockland at the age of four and a half…’cause I did go through a Pious 12 which was (unclear) for boys, um, which there was a lot of abuse going on there and that was closed down for lack of funds to keep the place open…and then from there I was shipped to Rockland. And I was in Rockland for about…I’ll say six months then I was shipped back home. Um, my dad and my mom came up with enough money to sign me out of Rockland and be put back with them. It didn’t last long because by the age of seven I was back in Rockland and from there it was like pretty much a solid state until the age of eighteen.

SP: So to backtrack in terms…that first time that you were in…okay, just to backtrack a bit, you said, um, that you were placed in Rockland Children’s Hospital?

VF: Yes. (Pause) at age of four.

SP: At age of four and, and that there was a lot of abuse going on in the home and this resulted in you being taken to Rockland…

VF: Right.

SP: The abuse was primarily from your father?

VF: Mostly my father. Um, but my mom did participate in some of the sexual abuse and some of the what I call trauma abuse. Um, but most of like the physical and beatings and stuff basically came from my dad…my father. Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 3

SP: How much do you remember…I realize you were young…but how much do you remember about that first time in Rockland Children’s Hospital?

VF: I remember a lot. I remember that’s why I got the disease of self mutilation from…learning it from another kid that was doing it and I actually had him put the first mark on my wrist.

SP: How old was he?

VF: Um, six.

SP: And how long were you in there that first time?

VF: About six months I would say.

SP: Did they…do you remember if they put you on any medication?

VF: Oh, yeah. They had me on a lot of medication. I was on Thorazine, 1500 milligrams liquid twice a day…Haldol, 10 milligrams twice a day…Adavane 2 milligrams three times a day as I recall.

SP: Do you remember how that made you feel?

VF: More aggressive. More violent. Um, and in Rockland it was also I had…I went through a lot of traumatized and stuff in Rockland. Um, Rockland is a good hospital but one thing that they tried to teach you how to be an adult and I think that was wrong. Um, they had a sex education class where they actually did sexual acts on the, on the kids there. Um, they did get physically aggressive…numerous times over and where I was taken out of a very abusive, sexually and physically abusive home, I was put right into another one. Um, so all that time all I’m doing is harboring a lot of anger and hatred toward people and Rockland…I don’t condone what they did because like I’m saying, I feel that they had…they did give me strength in other ways. Um, (long pause)…

SP: When you said that they were having sex education class (pause) um, can you tell me about these sex education…

VF: It was initiated by a psychiatric doctor…I’m just going to refer to her as Mrs. Watson. Um, her and a group of five other female TA’s when…’cause I was on the (unclear word) unit, children’s unit. Cottage D. I do remember. Um, and when the females went to program and half of the male clients that were in…around ten or eleven years old, they would keep the younger ones back from the ages of four to the ages of eight, they would keep them back on the Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 4

unit. It was only a group of six boys and she would call into the back conference room which is (3 unclear words) now, um, except more spacious and more couch area…small couches and stuff and she would proceedingly (sic) explain to us that this is, um, a sex education course and we are here to teach you how to properly have sex and proceededly (sic), um, all females would start, ah, removing their clothing and, um, they would fondle us and stuff like that and, ah, finally they would remove our clothes and they would perform sexual acts on us. Um, after…that went on during the morning program, ah, period. Ah, within fifteen minutes before people would come back, they would stop what they were doing and they would…everybody would get dressed and we would be back on the…in the sleeping room area by the time everybody came back. And that went on for the whole six months.

SP: This was…

VF: It was actually six boys ranging from the ages of four to eight. Anybody from the age of ten up, um, went up to the program area. And like I’m saying, as we go along I will let you know that all that stuff happens in the program area also, um, that has…and basically (short pause) it was something that we felt was like a normal thing. I mean, you pretty much got the attitude that this was normal and this was what was supposed to happen. Where we, we came from bad childhoods. I mean the children had to be grownups basically and that’s what the whole attitude (three indistinguishable words) felt like. We had to be grownups. I mean, even to the (two indistinguishable words) that even in the sleeping area we had to have socks with socks, folded, hospital corners. Um, they taught us what silverware was for what food. I mean, it was really like a little technical thing and I found that most of the time when I had re-entered Rockland, um, at the age of seven, that things were said…progressively got worse because now I’m older, bigger and I’m more wiser…so they thought…and, ah, they continued the abuses at the age of seven. Ah, and it’s…in an atmosphere like that where it’s happening so often you, you, ah…a child at that age…which I know different now…um, thinks that’s a normal thing. And he progressively goes on to (two undistinguishable words) its normal, when I know it’s not now…now that I’ve got the knowledge that’s, ah, abuse…that’s sexual abuse. Um, so, I don’t know, whatever you want to call it, it’s raping a young child and (short pause) that’s impact that it had on me over the year and why the anger and the aggression still discontinued to build against who do I trust? Who am I supposed to feel safe around? ‘Cause common knowledge tells you that you don’t go into supposedly, ah, safe environment and be repeatedly raped every day. I mean, that’s just not normal. I mean, your brain tells you it’s not normal. Even though your brain has to accept it but you…inside you know it’s not normal. (Short pause) And that’s been my biggest problem trying to trust people and why I can’t really get into steady relationships now because it Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 5

affects me to this day. Um, I only have…just a moment. I need to ask questions here ‘cause I’m going to keep rambling about the same thing. Um…

SP: If I could just…

VF: Sure.

SP: …go back to the…um, after six months you were, they released you…

VF: They released me to my family.

SP: They sent you back home?

VF: Sent me back home. And it was…went through the courts and everything and I guess my dad and my mom had convinced the courts that had community time under their belt. They were being helped through their addictions and that, um, they were in counseling…which was untrue. But I guess they must have had money enough to, ah, legally get it written on paperwork and present it to the courts that they were. But they weren’t because the minute I got home I was severely beaten, sexually molested, thrown into a cell with both my sisters and there we stayed for three months with no clothes, no food, no nothing. We had to rely on our own feces and urine to survive that three, that three weeks in the basement. Um…these are…

SP: Were your sisters ever taken…

VF: No, the sisters were not taken. I was.

SP: Why is that?

VF: Ah, basically, the, um, Department of Social Services saw that I was the only male and that may be that that was the triggering the abuse there. I mean, they didn’t know anything about my family that much about them. Um, but they figured that I was the only male. Maybe they felt the aggression was coming out because I was a male and they felt intimidated. They won’t really…it was hard for the way that they explained it to me but they felt that they probably would rather have, ah, daughters than a, than a son and that’s probably why the aggression came out. Um, but that was what was told to me. Um, I couldn’t say one way or the other. I think they were just sick individuals which I did find out later after they had passed away that they were…um, they were both suffering from mental illness and they both were, um, substance abusers and they both had severe traumas in their childhoods. Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 6

Which at the time they were growing up, they couldn’t get help like I can today. So, they were unfortunate and (pausing)…

SP: So, you were…they actually put you in a cage as a child? You say…

VF: In the basement. In the cellar.

SP: Oh, the cellar.

VF: And it’s…

SP: And locked you in the cellar?

VF: And locked us in the cellar. And we had, ah, survived on…basically our urine and our feces for food because they did not throw food down and other times when we were locked in the basement before I made my first trip to Rockland…um, he would throw down what I thought was road kill. I mean, it was, it was dead animals. All parts that they had picked up off the roads and we would have to eat it just to survive, um, I’m not saying that’s normal, but, I mean, if you want to live you’ve got to do what you can to survive. I mean, I would…I also had…caught mice right there in the basement to just have, ah, something to eat. I mean, we did some pretty what they call “un-normal, unnatural” things but when you have to survive, you use any means to survive. Um, during a lot of the physical abuses and sexual abuses that were going on, they were so traumatizing, um, the way…one of my psychologists put it that I probably had what they call “astro-projection,” (sic) where your spirit leaves your body, um, because the severity of the beatings and sexual molestation would have killed me. My body wasn’t able to do that. Um, I thought she was nuts. I thought that she, she needed to be on dope or crack or whatever. She was smoking something because I ain’t never even heard of such a thing of somebody’s spirit leaving their body so…if they’re about to be killed that the body doesn’t die and then once the abuse is done, the spirit re-enters the body. It was real weird the way she explained it to me and I had the therapist that was…teach me how to control that. You know what I’m saying? Because she would sit there and she would, ah, be sitting on her side of the deck. She would put up a card and then she would hypno…you know, do that hypnotize stuff and she would allow me…she would force me to do something to me to leave the body…the spirit to leave the body and she would have it come around and look at the card and then come back into my body while I was under hypnosis and then when she would snap me too she says, “What’s on this card?” and I would be able to tell what was on the card. And it was really great that she was able to do it but that was my later proof that, that she was right. That your…the body’s spirit can actually leave the body while it’s going through such a traumatic near death experiences to Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 7

where the body will survive. Um, maybe it’s a good thing that…I don’t know. But…

SP: It sounds like a defense mechanism.

VF: Yeah, but anyway I survived through some pretty severe traumatizing things. Memory I’ve still got and that’s due to electro-shock therapy which I’ve had three times in Rockland. Um, and what that did is it opened up…I can remember some stuff that went on still in the hospital as a baby. I can remember that stuff. I remember the minister’s name that took care of me for the first year I was in there when I was born because I was born addicted to heroin and coke. I had, ah, severe, ah, liver damage and heart damage and I had, ah, the grand mal seizures at birth. So I had…my chances of living were very slim to nil. I remember Kelly Jacobs who sat there and took care of me for the first year of my life and nurtured me and brought me back to health and she would not let any other nurse deal with me. She would not let any nurse go near. She said, “I will take care of this one.” And she did. I mean, my little crib…my little incubator crib looked like someone’s house. I mean, she brought stuff…she nursed me back to health and some day I’m going to repay her and I’m going to thank her for that because if it wasn’t for her, I think I would be dead. ‘Cause even when I was born into…God forbid…

SP: (Over talking) After, after that first time that you were in for six months…

VF: Ah huh.

SP: And you had gotten out and you were taken back home, how long before they took you out of there?

VF: When I turned seven they took me back out again. So…

SP: So, it would be about a year?

VF: No, ‘cause I was in there…I went in there from, at four and I was only there for six months and then I was taken…given back to them so, you’re talking about at least a three year period before I was taken out again…two and a half years.

SP: And, and what were the circumstances then?

VF: Severe, severe trauma, ah, abuses going on.

SP: Who…and the neighbors reported it again?

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 8

VF: Well, the neighbors actually came over, broke in the door ‘cause they heard me screaming ‘cause they laid me over a hot wood burning stove. Um, and, ah, neighbors heard me screaming and they came in. The two…my dad and a male, ah, neighbor got into a fist fight. Um, the woman and my mom, ah, the woman that…my neighbor…took my mom into another room and the two, the kids…the neighbor’s kids were the ones that called 911…called the ambulance and everything and the Department of Social Services and everything and got them over to the house. And from that point on, they took me out. They took both my sisters out and we never saw my family again…my mom and my dad again.

SP: That was…

VF: (Over talking) I was…that was the last time. They tried to put me through foster care. It didn’t work. They, ah, so when it didn’t work at foster care because I had what they call, ah, violent temper by nature is what they were calling it. Um, a very extremely hostile violent kid, um, who really had no chance at life. I mean, he’ll probably wind up dead or in prison somewhere for the rest of his life and that’s basically what they pronounced me as. But my first instance was setting fire to a…my, ah, roommates, ah, dresser because he was trying to force himself on me.

SP: Your room….

VF: Yeah, when I was little. Yeah.

SP: In foster care?

VF: In foster care…supposedly my foster brother and I found out later on when I was in Rockland that that person I was living with was my half brother. The, the one, ah, sons that my dad had by his second wife and…so I didn’t really feel bad about doing that to him. You know what I’m saying? I said (two undistinguishable words) fire. He didn’t get injured but they terminated me from the foster care. And that started my fire history…setting.

SP: How many foster families were you placed with before…before they realized…was that just…

VF: That was the only one. And the nature of the (two, three undistinguishable words) told them not to do that again ‘cause I’d set someone on fire. I mean, that’s pretty serious.

SP: So where did they take you?

VF: They sent me to Rockland when I was seven. Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 9

SP: Back to Rockland.

VF: Right straight to Rockland and that’s where I remained from the age of seven off and on with discharges to Parson’s Child Family Center, Berkshire Learning Center, I mean, a couple of group homes and a couple, ah, community residence…most of the stay was in Rockland and I got adopted when I was, ah, I…ten years old. Um, they had…Rockland had transferred me from Rockland to Kingston Children’s Home and from Kingston Children’s Home they had families come and visit me and stuff like that and I got adopted by the Floods and that’s how I got the name Flood. Um, the Floods were a decent fine people during the visits but once they got the adoption finalized when I was ten years old, the woman of the household changed. Her whole attitude changed. She was very abusive…physically. Very verbally aggressive all the time and I reacted in violence. I, ah, played sick from school and when she was sleeping on the couch, um, I took one of the…a steak knife from the kitchen and I went over to the couch and I just stabbed her right straight through the cheek and I chipped a couple of her teeth. She had to go down to the hospital and have plastic surgery done and the very next day, Rockland came back and took me back and I sat in Rockland from the age of…I would say fifteen to eighteen. Three straight years and then I proceeded to be…they had to make a decision. Is he discharged me to the community or does he go to big Rockland and the powers to be said that let’s discharge him to, ah, (long pause) Crinehower (sic) Residence in Kingston. I don’t know exactly what that’s considered…community residence or something…group home.

SP: Can we just back up a little bit…

VF: Sure.

SP: …and talk about the, um, a little bit more about that time you spent in Rockland. Um, were there…I mean, obviously, you know, in between hospitalizations you dealt with a lot of emotional stuff…

VF: Ah huh.

SP: …was there anything significant in those times that you just covered while you were in Rockland that stand out in your mind?

VF: That were good or…

SP: Good or bad.

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 10

VF: The physical and sexual abuse…that stands out as clear as a bell. But they did have good programs. Um, the school program…when I went there when I was older…they put me directly into a school program and I was also on another unit, um, the school program was great. I mean, I had an individual art therapist that was…I got real close to. I met my fiancée in Rockland which we’ll get into later. I have a daughter…so. Um, I met her in Rockland. She was a kitchen worker in Rockland and she resigned as a kitchen worker and came back to be a volunteer so she could spend personal quality time with me ‘cause I was…in the dining hall I was one of the persons who always sat by himself. Did a lot of crying. Never said anything and would rarely ever eat. Um, so she kind of took compassion for me and decided to quit her job as a cook and come back and work as a volunteer. That’s a memorable time for me because she used to take me out. We used to go bowling. We used to go to her place and watch movies. We did a lot of things together. We used to go out and hike and do a lot of different things.

SP: You did mention that there were, there were other instances of sexual abuse in the hospital?

VF: Even when I was older, ah…

SP: Can you talk about some of this?

VF: In the middle of like…our bed time is set at a certain time and when I was older…’cause they know that I’m more stronger and I’m more aggressive and I can potentially harm them…um, they had to find a way to attack me or approach me without me reacting or not giving me a chance to react. And most of the time they would do it in the middle of the night when I was sleeping. There were two or three…ah, couple of male staff would come in and like three or four female staff would come in and two, ah, male staff would hold me on the bed and let the females do what they wanted to me and then they would just get up and leave. It was, ah, a natural job for them. Um…

SP: How often did this happen?

VF: Four, five days a week. Um, pretty much the only time it didn’t happen was on the weekends and don’t ask my why. I think it was maybe ‘cause it was just different staff or whatever. But pretty much on the weekends we had a lot of full staff like that worked from other units ‘cause, um, and I think that’s probably why ‘cause all the other units…stuff like that didn’t happen because it’s not…like most of the sexual abuse took place on one unit and I don’t know what it was for, why it was, but I had it. I even went on to the program. I was asking them…other people I was with…other clients I was with…did any of this? Have you ever seen any of this? And it was like no. So, I was…I don’t Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 11

know what it was all about. I tried to put it piece all together and I have, I have to this day, um, why it just seemed to be focused on one unit…all the abuses and stuff seemed to be focused on one unit.

SP: Were there any…did you talk to other people on the unit and were they experiencing the same thing?

VF: Yes. A few, a few of the males were. Females never, never…if they did, they, they didn’t express it. Um, ‘cause I only, I only once did I hit an all male unit and that’s when I was on the security unit. When I was around…when I came back from the adoptive parents, my doctor from (unclear) sent me back to Cottage C which was a secure unit and that’s an all male unit.

SP: Now, was that in the children’s hospital?

VF: Yes, that’s still in the children’s hospital. You stay there until you’re eighteen. Once you’re eighteen they have to make a decision…a clinical decision…can they discharge you the community or do they have to send you to the big Rockland. Okay, so that’s a clinical decision. They decided to ship me to Kingston, um, ah, Pather (sic) House in Kingston. Um, but in Rockland…the abuses got progressively worse because when the men started having to use force because the females wanted their way with us and the males had to come in and hold us down and that’s why I say it got to be (unclear) work, because, you know, if someone comes in and jumps on him when he’s sleeping, you just tend to start fighting and to become…you know, people become injured and stuff like that. So, um, and that went on for…basic for my whole…every stay I was in Rockland, something was being done and the medications kept going up and up and up and it got to the point where it was all I could do was sit at a table like this just drool just flying out of my mouth. You know what I’m saying, ‘cause, um, I would become so violent with the people around me…not only staff, but also client. If clients looked at me wrong, I was just slugging them or, you know, beat the hell out of them because I thought that they were threatening me, um, just by looking at me or saying something to me. Um, so they had to keep me rapid (unclear word) and most of it was by IM’s and they know I’m not going to take a IM, so they would throw me in seclusion, strap me in a bag, a full body sheet, shoot me medication and this went on just repeatedly all the time. I can’t say that I can really remember a sober day I spent in Rockland, ah, because of medications. Um…

SP: You mentioned the security unit.

VF: Yeah.

SP: How was that different from the other parts? Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 12

VF: It was all male.

SP: All male.

VF: All male clients.

SP: Oh, so I see.

VF: All male clients. You don’t tend to see sexual abuse going on there because you got violent men down there and basically it’s all…the unit’s basically…the unit chief was a female. The nurses…the two nurses were males…everybody else was…it was all run by males. They only had three females that worked the unit. And that was every day of the week.

SP: So there were no cases of sexual abuse while you were in the security unit?

VF: Not in the security unit. Now that was like my last three years then…there was no sexual abuse. Some…a lot of physical abuse because, you know, when you were not feeling well or when you were having bad day…I mean, if you go off, I mean, they don’t in just, you know, putting you on the floor…they’ll get a lot of punches and stuff in there before they strap you down ‘cause it’s just, ah, that’s the type of unit it is because it’s either…well, you’re going to try to hurt us. Guess what? You’re going to be hurt first. That’s the attitude they had.

SP: So they don’t try to take you down with….

VF: (Over talking) They, they, they don’t fight you like they were getting attacked by somebody on the street. That’s what they believe in…you’re coming out to hurt me, you’re going to be hurt. Believe you or me. But, I mean, half the time when you’re going off, four or five come after you…I mean, you won’t stand a chance then. You know what I’m saying? And they don’t come at you with ah, trying to come at you like fighting with their fist. And that’s the way they do it and they just surround you and it’s just like you’re fighting five street guys is what you’re doing.

SP: So once they subdued you, then what would they do?

VF: They would throw me in a straight jacket, drag me down the hallway into the seclusion, throw me…shoot me in the ass with a needle and then they would throw me in a full body sheet on the bed.

SP: So you’d be in a straight jacket and a full body sheet. And how long would they keep you there generally? Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 13

VF: Anywhere’s between four to seventy-two hours.

SP: Wouldn’t let you out at all…you were…

VF: No. If you had to go to the bathroom, you did it right there. You’d just take a shower after the 24 or 72 hours. They had somebody, ah, hand feed you and it would be another client that hand fed you. Not a staff because they don’t want you biting them.

SP: How often did they check on you while you were in there?

VF: About once an hour. One every hour. It’s not like here where it’s every fifteen minutes or they have someone sitting right there with you. No. They would put you in. Lock the door. At mealtimes they would have a patient come in with a tray of food and spoon feed you and when they wanted to give you medication, they would just come in at medication times and give you medications and about once a night you could see somebody walk by and look in the window and just keep on…and they kept the door locked at all times.

SP: How often were you placed in seclusion? I mean, without saying a number…I mean, many times…

VF: Yeah, I’d say three or four times a day at least.

SP: Really?

VF: Yeah.

SP: So how old were you when you got out of Children’s? You were eighteen.

VF: Eighteen.

SP: And they made a decision that you needed to go to an outpatient…

VF: Well, outpatient they thought was best. Um, and so they shipped me to, ah, I guess it was a halfway house…ah, Clinton Avenue Residence.

TAPE 1, SIDE 2

SP: Okay. So what was the name of the, ah, outpatient….

VF: Clinton Avenue Residence. I think it’s what they call a group home. Um, it was on Clinton Street in Kingston. Um, and basically I felt similar to now, um, Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 14

that they’re based on…they’re still hospital oriented. You’re, you doing everything by the book. Um, um, medication treatment, um, specific programs and stuff like that and I felt that if I earned my way out of the hospital, that I didn’t want to, ah, ARPC rules hanging over my head such as when to go to bed, when to smoke, when to eat. And I didn’t like that idea. So I kept coming in and out of the house. You know, instead of coming in at ten o’clock curfew time, I’ll come in at three or four in the morning. It only took two times of doing that until finally I just came back to the house and they started yelling at me and I just walked out and never came back. Um, some of their programs helped me get a job downtown Kingston doing part time carpentry work that paid me $150 cash a week. And I was using that. Part of that job is drinking and dope, so I got hooked on dope and became, ah, a heavy drinker and stuff until it just finally destroyed me because when I wasn’t at the (Tape stopped).

SP: So you were saying, ah, before we get into, ah, your drug and alcohol use, um, at Clinton…I’m sorry, what’s the name of the…

VF: Clinton Avenue Residence.

SP: Clinton Avenue Residence, um, you were mandated to go there? They just sent you there?

VF: Well, they didn’t mandate me doing any AOT or nothing. It was just they…I guess I made phone calls, proper procedures for calling around and they just happened to have an opening. And at that age…and even I think everyone at that age they never actually (indistinguishable)….anything. It was…we got a client right of a discharge. Do you have an opening? And they’re like yeah. We’ll be sending him in next week. But here because of the Kendra’s Law, everything is so technical. Everything is by the book and through the courts and everything because of all the histories of bad things happening when they release clients.

SP: So at that time when you walked out, you were done.

VF: I was done.

SP: As far as you were….

VF: (Over talking) I went, I went and moved in with my friend and his girl friend and I managed to survive on my Social Security checks and, um, the money that I was making at work. But as I was saying, I got hooked on heroin and…to the point where I was doing heroin and coke speed balling and, um, the alcohol and it got to the point where I wasn’t taking my medication and I got, I got ill again. It was a matter of time where I was cutting myself and I Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 15

actually was walking up the streets of Kingston with a big ole, ah, 24 inch knife in my hand and sliced to ribbons and, um….

SP: Was that the first time you had started cutting yourself since you were younger or had you always been cutting yourself?

VF: Naw, I’d always been cutting myself. It’s just one of those things that I…I had a made a commitment to myself…I mean, one thing that I don’t want to do is talk about cutting because some times that triggers, so I had tried to leave that out of the Rockland part but I was, I was a chronic cutter down there, um, in Rockland. All my years in Rockland since the age of four my first admission when another child had taught me how to cut, I had been cutting. I had cuts all over my body from my chest, my neck, my arms, my back, my legs. I mean, everything is cut on me. Um, it’s something that I…at the time that I did for comfort and sympathy from staff when the abuses weren’t going on I would do it so that “oh, poor kid,” you know. Bandaged me up, you know, put me on the level and comforted me. Um, it was almost like, ah, a safety net for me. If I cut, they would be kind to me. If I didn’t cut, they would abuse me or some other thing so…I didn’t cut a lot. Because I know if I was cutting, they would be kind to me. So, if I wasn’t cutting, they were abusing me at some point and fashion. So…I was pretty much a chronic cutter.

SP: It was learned…

VF: (Over talking) Yeah, it was learned behavior. A way of coping, of dealing because that’s the way he was coping and dealing with his. So.

SP: So, you’re eighteen years old. You live with your friend and you start getting into drugs.

VF: Ah huh.

SP: And things started to get out of hand.

VF: I mean, I started cutting on a regular basis. Um, and until finally the State Police, ah, saw me walking down Broadway in Kingston and saw me…blood all over the place. I mean, I had hit major arteries and everything and blood just squirting all over the place and I had this big 24 inch knife in my hand walking down the middle of the street. Intoxicated, high and drug and stuff. So they admitted me to, um, (short pause) I don’t even remember the name of it, the hospital…in Kingston. It’s been so long. But they have a, they have a medical…not Kingston Hospital. Another one that has like a, that has like a medical in a, in a psyche part and they took me down to the psyche part. They brought me up to the medical part until I sobered up and then they brought me back down and then they asked me all the questions about my Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 16

life and stuff like that and they wound up…they didn’t have any openings on the actual site…no beds open, so they referred me to Hudson River in Poughkeepsie. And that started a whole new life, (sigh)…

SP: So they did your…so that was an intake evaluation I’m assuming.

VF: Yeah, it was an intake evaluation. They knew I had to be admitted but they had no openings. They had no beds. So they sent me…they shipped me…the cops that brought me there were waiting outside while they were doing the, I guess, the intake process and sees they had no beds, they had given them the whole packet back to them and said to take him over to de-tox in Hudson River. So in Hudson River I went over to de-tox and from the de- tox unit in the Hudson River I went to the psyche…one of the psyche units ‘cause I was progressive still cutting myself and very I guess what they call violent.

SP: When you left, ah, the Clinton Avenue program, did you stop taking medications?

VF: No, I was actually using and taking my medications at the same time.

SP: Oh, I see. You had an outpatient treatment program that you were going to…

VF: Right.

SP: …seeing your psychiatrist?

VF: Well, actually it was a program on, um, ah, Kingston Street. It was right down from, from the house. It was only like maybe three blocks away from where I was actually living and there was a program. It was like a day treatment program and your doctor…you went there for like groups and therapy and stuff like that in the same building. Um, it’s almost like the, the mental health clinic here except this was like an all day program. You go there from nine in the morning until four in the afternoon and then go home. So it was an all day program where the mental health clinic you only go up there for group or you only go up there for a specific reason to see a doctor or a group an hour and then you’re done. You go back to your other groups. This was…everything was in that one building. So, I spent the whole day in that one building. When I was at Clinton Avenue Residence once I left that address I never showed up for program. And for a time period…I’ll say for a few weeks, I was using heroin and coke, drinking alcohol on top of the meds until I just finally decided not to take the meds any more.

SP: Do you remember what meds you were on at that time?

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 17

VF: (Long pause) I was on a whole lot. I mean…I’m surprised that I was able even to keep my eyes open because I was on a lot of meds and a lot of heavy doses of it. Pretty much the whole time I was in Rockland I stayed…I mean, because of the violence that I was showing and self mutilation and stuff, they…so they can also do what they wanted to do in their balance (?)…keep me weak or medicate to where I won’t fight them. You know. Um, I know of the things they always liked to do was the Thorazine. I know I was on Thorazine. And I know I was on the Haldol, too and Advane. That like followed me the whole time I was in (unclear, background noise). Um, by the time I had turned eighteen and went to…I was on like 3,000 milligrams three times a day of Thorazine liquid. Um, but over the years of being on mega doses my body had grown quite accustomed to it so your body gets adjusted to it no matter what the doses are. But those are the doses for even an eighteen year old, let alone an adult, you know, 3,000 milligrams three times a day. What is the max dose, I mean…

SP: I’m sure…I’m not sure…

VF: (Over talking) I don’t think 3,000 milligrams three times a day…that’s 9,000 milligrams of just one medication and then you figure the other stuff they were pumping into my system, too. Back when I was a child that was their number one drug of choice for anybody. Just about everybody in Rockland… females, males…they were on Thorazine either by liquid or, or pill or by shot.

SP: So how much do you remember about that first day in, ah, in Mid-Hudson Psyche?…I’m sorry in Hudson River Psyche?

VF: I remember a lot. I remember I got in the door and within five minutes I had hit three male employees and nearly pulled, ah, a lock of hair out of one of the female nurse’s head because I was…didn’t want to be there. Didn’t want to be in a psyche unit. I said, “Why am I over here?” And they would give me a bunch of babble, garbage that the de-tox center thinks you need to be here. And I didn’t think I needed to be there. I’m supposed to be in the de-tox center. How can they make a judgment call to send me to a psyche center? You know, and I really got violent. I went off on them. So my first day spent there was pretty much in restraint and seclusion all day.

SP: Same situation…how did they…

VF: No, they, they put me in the locked seclusion. There was no restraint jacket. No restraint jacket or nothing. And then they came by me offering medication and I said no. No, no…because I still had a lot of drugs in my stomach, you know, and I’m still in the de-toxing process so the doctor had made, had made an agreement not to put any psychiatric medication because of all the different things I had in my system from the…when I was in the…before I Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 18

went to the de-tox center because I was doing PCP, Heroin, coke, LSD, um, a lot of different types of pills and alcohol. So they were like I don’t think we want to put medication in him. It might kill him. So they kept me, ah, med free for six months. But for that six months I didn’t have a single behavior problem after that admission behavioral, ah, going off. Um, because as my body was de-toxing from drugs I didn’t have a single behavioral problem. After the six months when they initiated the first medications, I had problems from then on in. I made three trips to Mid-Hudson before they finally on the third one they shipped me here and said they’d send me back to Hudson River. Um, cutting, fire setting, assaults up the ying yang. I caught a body in Hudson River. Um, it’s a lot of things that happened in Hudson River that if I never see that place again, it wouldn’t bother me in the least.

SP: You said you caught a body?

VF: Yeah, I killed another client in Hudson River.

SP: Oh, you did?

VF: Yes. And it’s in my record.

SP: What happened?

VF: For three months, ah, a male client who was in there for willingly and knowingly gave, ah, 365 people the AIDS virus…full blown AIDS virus in the community, male and females and children…was admitted to Hudson River for life. He was on my unit and he kept making passes at me. Kept trying to come on to me. I wound up breaking the man’s jaw, his leg, his elbow and broke four of his ribs. And the staff repeatedly did nothing. I went to the staff. I went to the unit chief. I went to…um, the floor chief and everybody and he was trying to attack me in the hallway. And a chief walks on the unit. I said, “Chief, get this guy off me.” She just kept right on walking like nothing was going on. So, that was the time that I had broke his jaw. I just let him…hit him once in the jaw. And this guy was pretty big and I hit him in the jaw and he fell down and he just got up and walked away. He had to wound up…he had his jaw wired shut. Two weeks after that happened he continued to go on and again…so I sat there and I wrote a, ah, a letter to the director of the facility, Hudson River Psychiatric Center, that for months now I’ve been making several complaints to all the powers that be about a man trying to sexually molest me and he’s in here for a crime that’s hideous. He has full blown AIDS virus and I don’t want this man attacking me. Is there anything you can do to help me? He writes…two days later I get a letter back from him saying that if I handle every patient’s petty ass problem in this facility, I’d never get my own job done. I took it in my mind that he was telling me to take care of it myself so in my mind I’m going to take care of it myself. So, two Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 19 days later I went out on my privileges, went down to (unclear) and bought one of those small cans of butane lighter fluid and I know his pattern that every evening when they open up at four o’clock then he goes and he goes to sleep ‘cause that’s the time when you take your, ah, right before your medication. You take your medication. You can either go to bed or take a shower or do whatever you want. So, I went in the day room. Sat down and played cards and that’s when we came back from dinner which was…I think we ate at 3:30…it was early dinner. Um, came back from dinner. Went in. Started playing a game of, ah, Spades with another client and two staff members like I would do every evening there. I waited about an hour. After an hour I said, “Excuse me. I’ve got to go to the bathroom.” So, instead of going to the bathroom, I went down to my room and on the way to…his room is before mine going down the hallway so I went over to his door and it was slightly ajar and I heard heavy breathing in there. So, I went down to my room, grabbed the can of butane lighter fluid and two books of matches and I walked up the hallway, went in his room, closed the door. Not like all the way, but right on the latch, you know what I mean, and he was out like a light, blanketed all the way up to his neck, all the way down…you know, heavy breathing, mouth wide open. I took the can of lighter fluid put it all over the top of the blanket. Emptied the whole can on there and stood the can on the side of the bed and (unclear). Lit one book with a match and then lit the other from that one and just went – both ends of the bed. And I just turned around and said, “Syonara, sucker. You ain’t killing me,” and I walked out and closed the door right behind me. Within a matter of I’d say thirty seconds, patients were screaming in the hall, “fire, fire, fire.” So, we all got up and went out in the hallway and I was like nothing, like I had no idea what was going on and shit. Um, two clients went in there. Ah, opened up…they pushed open the door and saw that the flames were coming out and everything. Um, he was engulfed in flames. Um, two patients went in and grabbed…in the room right next to his, went in and grabbed his blanket off the bed and went in the shower and just soaked them in cold water and threw them over the top of him. Um, once the fire was out, they pulled him off the bed and tried to peal his pants off because they were still smoldering. So they…but they couldn’t because the flesh from his legs was coming off with the pants so the nurse said, “Stop, stop, stop.” So they made everybody go into (unclear) dayroom and let the medical team came in and attend to him and he died before he got to Westchester, ah, Burn & Trauma Center. So they came back and the following day my therapist came up to me and said, “Mr. Flood, did you have anything to do with this?” I said, “No.” No feelings. I mean, I had no feelings. No emotions towards it whatsoever. I said no. And then he proceeded to tell me, “Well, you’ve been having ongoing problems and you can ask yourself and helping and I know you sent a letter to the director and the director kind of brushed you off, too. Are you sure you didn’t…” I said, “So what if I did? I feel I’m in the right. If a man wants to sit there and give you the full blown AIDS virus…and that’s a death sentence…am I not in the right to prevent him Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 20

from doing that seeing that no one else will? I mean, here I am pleading out for help from a guy whose going to give me a death sentence, nobody wants to help me and I’m supposed to be protected and safe here and it’s not happening. Of course, I’m going to go out and do something to this person to prevent him from killing me.” And when they brought…they charged with a, um, first degree, ah, manslaughter, charge…and I went to court and I told the judge the same thing. I said, “Judge, Your Honor, no disrespect, but if you had a client that has full blown AIDS whose in a psyche center for the rest of his life because he willingly gave the AIDS virus to, ah, numerous, hundreds of people out there, men, women and children and has a life sentence in this facility and he’s constantly physically attacking you to have sex with you and you repeatedly went to the chain of command and even the director and here’s the note that the director handed me back. Here’s a copy of my note asking for help and this is the letter…I had myself all in order. I says, “Now, what would you do, Your Honor?” He says, “Well, under the circumstances if I were you, I would do the same thing. But you know it was wrong.” I said, “I don’t care if it was wrong. I’m not going to not. I’m not going to let someone else kill me.” He said is this…he said…he put his hand over me and said, “This is one crazy son of a bitch. Give him…put him in, ah, nine months in Mid-Hudson. During my course in Mid-Hudson…Mid-Hudson was great. I had no problems there. I was one of the honor, honor, ah, clients there. I had a job during the morning. I went to school…no, actually I had school in the morning and I had a job in the afternoon and I’d get to stay up until two or three in the morning. I’m having cigarettes and stuff. It was great. I’ve always felt fond of Mid-Hudson ‘cause I always got along with people and I only had one altercation in the three times I’ve been there. They came back nine months later and they had to make a decision. They came back to me and told me they had a decision to make…to send me back to Hudson River or to transfer me to some place else. Hudson River didn’t want me back. I mean, Mid-Hudson didn’t know where to send me. So Hudson River called here in 1990. 1990 this place said, “Yes, we’ll accept him but when he’s got his act together, we have to ship him back to Hudson River.” Well, guess what? I never saw Hudson River again ‘cause this is where I’ve sat ever since.

SP: So you went from Mid-Hudson to here?

VF: Right. On a pre-agreement with Hudson River that I come here first and get my act together and show, ah, stability time of no violence, no self mutilation stuff and then I would go back to Hudson River. Well, lo and behold, um, they didn’t tell me that when I first came back here and naturally I came back here with, ah, hostility, self-mutilation, taking off, drinking, um, you name it, I was doing it here. Violence. Breaking up furniture. Assaulting people. Um, (long pause).

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 21

SP: So you were, you were in Hudson River for nine months…I’m sorry…Mid- Hudson…

VF: Mid-Hudson, right.

SP: …what was it about Mid-Hudson that was favorable to you as opposed to the other…

VF: Well, I felt that in Mid-Hudson that I am protected. I mean, if patients go crazy, we have people right there on the unit that will actually protect you from being assaulted by somebody and staff respected you. Staff treated you with dignity and respect which I did not see in other places that I had been. Um, they actually cared for clients there and that’s why I think I settled in very nicely and became an honor roll patient in there and never had a behavior problem. The only time I had a behavior problem was when I was assaulted by another peer. They took him over to the box, they brought him back and then I got, ah, I retaliated on him. They took him back to the box and left me on the unit and they still found me in favor because they knew he was in the wrong for attacking me in the first place. So, they always saw favor of the person whose doing good, whose respecting the rules, whose, ah, showing the…capable of holding responsibility and I was an honor roll patient with a job and going to school and stuff like that. So…

SP: So as long as you felt secure and there was no threat by staff or patients, you did fine.

VF: I did fine.

SP: And what indication was there at the beginning when you first went in there that that was going to be the case for you?

VF: Just the way it looked. The size of the male staff were huge. I mean, you talk about the guys that look like football players. Um, and the way they had this set up…the sleeping quarters, day room and everything. And it’s…any time something was off, you know it was going to be stopped right there. Not to let anything happen, you know. And that’s…actually it felt safe and comfortable there.

SP: So then you were transferred to Middletown with the idea that you were going to go back to Hudson River…

VF: Right.

SP: …but you’ve been here ever since? And how long has that been?

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 22

VF: 1990…I’ve spent from 1990 to 1994. Four straight years in here and a lot of ups and downs, cutting, um, violent outbursts, breaking furniture, um, drinking alcohol and stuff like that. A lot of medical hospital trips for seizure, um, grand mal seizures and stuff. Um, ’94, um, I had one of my old psychologists who no longer works here, um, had told me repeatedly times that don’t worry. We’ll get you discharged. She said this for like four treatment meetings in a row until finally I got tired and just took off. And when I took off I did a crime in the community. I did a burglary in the community. I was trying to get money to pay back the female that I was staying with and stuff like that. And stole a larger sum of money, jewelry and a handgun and brought it all back to the hospital grounds because I wanted to give a female some money and then I was going to take a bus and leave. But the State Troopers were waiting for me when I came off the unit where I was visiting her. They were waiting right there with guns and I did a year of crime time for that burglary. Got out on probation. Um, they had to discharge meeting up at, ah, McDuff (sic) Clinic to see if I could be discharged because they held my bed open for the eight months from this facility…

SP: While you were in jail?

VF: While I was in jail they held my bed and I didn’t know it. Um, but when they released me from jail, they released me to the streets. They opened the door and I walked…they, they let me walk right out not caring if I had a bed to sleep in. Not caring if I had a roof over my head. Not caring if I could get a meal in my belly. They didn’t care. If you’re in jail and you get released, then you’re…the hospital does not keep tabs on you when you’re in jail…they release you to the street. And that’s what they did. And so I went down to the State Police barracks and I told them that I’m homeless. That I don’t have no place to stay and they referred me to the Mental Health Clinic. They have emergency housing here and they drove me over here and that was on a Friday. Monday I went to McDuff Clinic, Terry Pasodi (sic) hooked me up with discharge meeting. They actually did discharge me, um, that Monday after coming out of jail. Um, they got me a, ah, an efficiency apartment down on Washington Street here in Middletown. Um, the date I got discharged, Terry Pasodi had everything already set up for me, but the day I got discharged…I was actually discharged 100 percent and went down and looked at the place and said it was good and all that…he called the Social Security Board and told them to forward all my checks back to this facility because of the possibility of me coming back. So, now I’m out there for three months living on food stamps. No actual regular income coming in. No money coming in. No checks coming in. My food stamps…my Social Security checks were coming to this facility. I don’t know in whose name or anything of that nature ‘cause I was not hooked up with an intensive case manager or anything like that. I would just do the…my only program was to come back to the Mental Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 23

Health Clinic three days a week for an hour program. That was it. The rest of my time was free out there in the world doing what I want with it.

SP: Where were you staying?

VF: Ah, Washington Street. Right here in Middletown. I had an efficiency apartment…one room efficiency apartment. And from, ah, a lack of no money, you know what I’m saying, my landlord was getting his check but I wasn’t receiving any money. Naturally I went out and did another burglary and that one allowed me to do five years up State. I did two years in Clinton and two and a half years in, ah, Attica and half a year in Marcy for the Criminally Insane. From Marcy they transferred me back here only because between my CR…my CR date and…they only gave five dates.

SP: Which is conditional release.

VF: Right. From the time I got out of prison, they sent me to Marcy for my last five days so Marcy could make the decision whether I need to go to another psyche center…whatever. But they only gave them five days. This facility was not going to accept me back. They said no. But then, five days…where are they going to find another place that’s going to, you know, just jump up and have an opening. So, Marcy called here and said, “You don’t have a choice. You’ve got to accept him. There’s no other place to send him and we’ve got to release him. His CR dates here.” So when I got back here in 1990, October of 1990, I was on parole because I still had two years left to do on parole because I got a three and a half to seven and a half bid on the second burglary, a Class D Felony. Um, I had to do two years left on parole. The hospital did not want to discharge me during that two years because they feel that, you know, it’s one thing having…because, one of the Kendra’s Law and two, ‘cause of…they felt I wasn’t stable enough to go out there and live out my parole and not violate. So they were trying to protect me. So, I agreed with them and I stayed in here my first two years from ’99 to 2001. I got discharged in 2001 to Clinton Avenue Residence and that was a major mess and catastrophe also. Ah, my very first night there my roommates…’cause I think they were in for burglary and thievery and stuff like that within the community…my very first night there my roommate…first time that I’m, that I’m in there, the first night I’m in the house, he claims that he left his wallet on his bed and went downstairs and when he came back his wallet was gone. They had the State Police up there roughing me up telling me, you know, “We know you took it. I grew up with this boy and he ain’t going to lie to me. You took his wallet. Give it up or tell us where it is and nothing will happen.” They threatened to take me down to the station. Um, he handcuffed me behind my back, threw me onto the car trying to get me to confess to something I didn’t do. But I didn’t do it, so I could not confess to something. I never even seen the man’s wallet and I said, “Does this seem Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 24

like a logical man? He knows he’s getting a new roommate. He’s never been known to leave his wallet on his bed before. Now, all of a sudden he gets a new roommate, he’s going to leave his wallet with $365 in it right there. Does that make sense to you, Officer?” He said, “Don’t get wise ass.” I said, I’m not getting wise with you. I’m trying to give you the facts. I’ve had every single person in that house within the last past half an hour coming up to say hello to me inside the room while I put my stuff away in the closet. How are you going to sit there and say that I took his wallet? Any one…if he left it on, on his bed, any person that walked in that room within the last past half hour could have sat there, looked around and slipped it in his pocket.” So…they, they tried to pin that on me. It didn’t work because evidence felt false in the wallet. It never showed up. It never showed up again.

SP: Lack of evidence.

VF: And then, ah, I was up, upset and so I went out and I got drunk and I came back to the house and I cut myself and then they…I think they sent me back here for a weekend. Went back there and then I came, ah, I was in the program area and someone was trying to sell me weed. I told him, no, I don’t want to buy it. I don’t want to smoke weed, whatever and he slipped it to me the next day in a cigarette and I had a lot of physical, um, medical reactions to it. So I walked down here and I wound up spending the day here and then they shipped me back and I did a whole month and a half there…alcohol free, drug free except in the program I was going to work it, whatever and because they screwed up on the AOT, which is the court mandating me to do certain things, you know, at this program…MICA meetings, ah, van rides with the house, um, and my programs here. Um, according to the new AOT, if it would have been initiated, I could get my own apartment after three months of being there and, um, get a job and all those things I required that I wanted. Um, but they messed up on the AOT which means I would have been stuck in Chester for six months until they could get a new AOT initiated ‘cause I had already been there a month. My lawyer told me it was going to be at least four months or longer before I could get you into the courtroom to get the new one initiated. And they’re trying to tell me that I had to follow the old AOT which means I can’t get my own apartment now for the six months. I can’t get a job now for the six months and I’m stuck in a place I don’t want to be.

SP: How long was the AO…the first AOT?

VF: The AOT was for six months. That ended. It was supposed to end…when was the first time I was discharged? (Short pause) May was when it…no, May is when it was ended. I think I got discharged in June of…month, the year before. I don’t know. Because like a few times came back in. Um, overall, it was like a six month period back and forth to Chester…

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 25

TAPE 2, SIDE 1

SP: So just I can…

VF: Huh?

SP: Just so I can understand how this works…um, you had…you were on AOT which is Assisted Outpatient Treatment for six months which is a court ordered, court enforced treatment which you have to follow, otherwise they can bring you back in here.

VF: Right.

SP: So after the six months they wanted to renew it…is that…

VF: Yes. They wanted to renew it for a year.

SP: Who wanted to renew it?

VF: Ah, Maggie Keenan…Mrs. Keenan.

SP: That’s okay. Um, it doesn’t…you don’t have to say specifically who, but who…

VF: She is the one who represents the County and where clients are placed in the community.

SP: Does she work for the Department of Mental Health or…

VF: Ah, yeah. Actually, I think her department’s a little bit different. She works like for the county department and when we are…when we’re about to be discharged, um, her department gets the AOT packet and the packet referral for discharge and she’s…her and her organization are the ones that actually find the places that are optional for the client according to their history and all that. They find a suitable place for the client to go.

SP: But they don’t actually review the cases to determine whether or not AOT needs to be extended?

VF: No. This facility does that.

SP: Oh, Middletown.

VF: Middletown does that. She does play a part in it. She’s the one who takes it to court. Like if the…if the Middletown or MPC wants me to be on the AOT, Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 26

they will write up the AOT package. She’s the one whose got to get it approved by the courts.

SP: Oh, I see.

VF: She’s the one that takes it into court. They’re the ones that only initiate the AOT and then they send it to her and she brings it into the court to get it mandated or she can say, well, maybe we don’t need it mandated. Maybe we can do a verbal, written agreement like I could sign my name on a piece of paper saying I’m agreeing to follow an AOT status without having to go to court. This way, the responsibility is on me, not the court.

SP: Right.

VF: But they don’t want the responsibility in my hands because they’re saying I’m non-compliant with program. I’m a drug addict. I’m an alcoholic. I’m a person who will refuse meds. I’m a person who will refuse, ah, ah, programs so they will automatically go to court to mandate it. And my six months ended on May 1st. It was supposed to be the first week of May. I did not get information about…there was a school apartment until my third week…second week into May. By the third week I was back here because according to the new AFT…like I said, I was going to be able to get an apartment after three months. I was going to be able to get a job and all that things that I wanted to do before I was going back to Chester in the first place. But, but Chester was just going to be a holding spot until the new AFT was going to be initiated and then I had to do the three months, get a job, and then move into my own apartment. But they screwed up on filling out the AFT to the courts. The courts read it. Said this is not properly filled out so my lawyer had to retract it from the courts. Send it back here for another refill it out and she called me on the phone and told me it’s going to be at least four months before she can get another court hearing. I’ve already done a month and a half. So you’re figuring four months from then that’s five and a half months there and then you figure by the time she does get a court hearing it’s going to take at least another month to get all the paperwork done to get it into the court room. So, you’re figuring I’m going to be there close to a year before I can even get the new one initiated. And how’s that fair to me when I was doing exactly what was I was supposed to do? I was following my program. I was going to my MICA meetings. I stayed away from alcohol, drugs and every substance for a whole month and a half and because of their screw up on the AOT, I was going to be penalized for close to a year.

SP: Meanwhile, they’re holding you under the conditions of the old one.

VF: Of the old which by law they can’t do. By their legal right they were doing it saying I had to or I’ll send you back to MCP. But according to the AOT law, Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 27

I…when I came back here and talked to my lawyer, she said by legal right you don’t have to…by the court of law, you didn’t have to follow the old AOT. You could have moved out of Chester and got your own apartment if you wanted to.

SP: Right after the six months?

VF: Right after the six months.

SP: Why did you come back here?

VF: Because I went down to the corner store and I had three forties and due to the three forties, um, I had drank on top of the medication…

SP: Three forties just for the record it’s malt liquor, ah…

VF: No, well, it’s beer.

SP: Oh, oh, okay.

VF: I had, I threw, I had three Budweiser’s and…

SP: Oh, okay.

VF: Just to take the edge off. And so what I did in terms of retaliation of what they did with the messing up on the AOT and making me stay in a place, a place I don’t want to be for four extra months or longer…close to a year…um, I went down to the store and my intentions was to buy a pack of cigarettes but I was stressing out. Um, I was agitated. I was angry at them for, for letting me down and making me follow a thing that I felt I didn’t have to follow…um, by the court of law and proceeded to buy a pack of cigarettes and then when she was turned around to get the pack of cigarettes, I saw the beer right there and I wound up buying three forties and drank those and went right down to the corner and right up into a patch of woods and drank them. Lo and behold I drank on top of my medication, but lo and behold did I know that the very time I was up…on one side of the street, um, drinking three forties, a block down the, down the…across the street right up a block behind the church someone was being stabbed to death. When, um, I walked back to Chester House, ah, they saw that I was very, ah, pretty much obliterated ‘cause I drank on top of medication, so they, ah, called the Westchester Police and they brought me down to, ah, Arden Hill. Arden Hill would not admit me ‘cause of being so intoxicated on top of the medication. They brought me up to the medical unit.

SP: What is Arden Hill? Is that a psychiatric center or a hospital?

Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 28

VF: Both, both. And so, ah, the medical unit they had me hooked up onto a lot of like medications and stuff because I was going into grand mal seizures, back to grand mal seizures. So I spent most of the entire night sitting up in the medical hospital being pumped full of medications to help counteract the alcohol and to, ah, help me with the seizure activity. Finally got down to the psyche unit probably around four, five o’clock in the morning. Got on the unit. They shipped me off to, to…they give me a room and I lay down and go to sleep. Not even an hour later, FBI come up and start questioning me about a slaying that happened in Chester. Don’t have a clue as to what they’re talking about. There was no one with me when I was drinking. I bought three forties. I walked out the store. I went around the corner. I went up in the open space and I drank my forties. Same thing that I told them when I was at Arden Hills. The same thing I told them when they questioned me. I said if you want the evidence, just go up in that little patch of woods. You’ll see two bottles, two forties sitting there. And if you go way in the back, you’ll see a whole pile of cigarette butts, non-filter PalMals and some GPCs right there in the dirt in a pile. You’ll find two, ah, empty Budweiser forties here and if you walk back in the woods a little bit, you’ll see the first one which I pitched into the woods when I first got done with it. That’s my evidence. That’s because I was there and I wasn’t across the street up a block, you know, behind a church, you know, stabbing somebody. And plus they already had people under, ah, under investigation who they thought might have done the stabbing. I knew the guy who got stabbed because he was in Arden Hill. How (unclear)….with me a week before on the psyche unit. So that’s why they put one and two together and maybe we didn’t get along at Arden Hill. Or maybe I had a personal vendetta or something like that. But they’re saying that there’s been surveillance to the guy that got stabbed because he’s homeless and has no family and he’s been like in and out of Chester a lot on his bike. So (long pause)…

SP: Okay, so now you’re here, um, under the command of the initial AOT…

VF: Right.

SP: …which, which, um, was that one of the stipulations that if you…

VF: …drink on AOT that they ship me back to…right. But actually, um, when I was in Arden Hill when they were investigating, ah, the slaying in Chester what FEC did, um, the woman who represents the county, um, my program manager, my intensive, ah, case manager and, um, the doctor from here, Dr. Ashaw(?), came down to Arden Hill to ask me would I be willing to come back to MPC until the investigation was over. They’re saying that they don’t want to see me get in, you know, go to prison for something I didn’t do whatever…and they had ran me over (unclear)…to get me back here and once I came back here, the high risk and the doctor was, was promising me Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 29

that Chester will, will, will remain open for up to thirty days and that if I do well that within thirty days I will be going back to Chester. Two weeks into the thirty days of me being back here, Mark Lava…I mean, John Haas who runs that…Chester House brings all my belongings back here. He tells me that Meagan has informed him that she doesn’t feel that’s no…that that is any longer a safe environment for me and that she feels that I should not be going back to that home. So now I’ve been sitting in her four months because of a decision. One week I was promised I could go back and then all of a sudden (unclear name) said that no, I can’t. So now I’ve been sitting in here four and a half months, going on five months…no, actually it’s been five months…20th of this month it will be five months I’ve been back here because of a decision that I had no control over and because I was trying to listen to them and come back here when if I had stayed in Arden Hill I would have been going straight to Chester. You know what I’m saying? They talked me into coming back here because they thought it was going to protect me from the charges that the investigation that was going on down in Chester. And meanwhile because I listened to them and came back here, now I’m being penalized because I’ve had problems since I’ve been back here because I don’t want to be here. And this is one reason why.

SP: And you just…

VF: And this is one reason why. Because…I just, I just received this today. He’s already done…he already…when I first came in, he did a six months…my lawyer took it into court and got it down to three months. Okay. And three months now, um, I had ups and downs and my level’s been up. I’ve been down at A-1 and stuff for cutting myself and for throwing over furniture and flipping tables and stuff because it gets frustrating in here. I don’t want to be in this facility. I’m not…they don’t have me labeled as a mentally ill diagnosis in here. They have me labeled as a border line personality disorder. Dr. Shaut(?) initiated Access 1, minor depressive disorder so he could get funding to send me to Chester. But there is not a psychologist, psychiatrist in this hospital that can pronounce me with a psychiatric illness by…under the mandatory State law of why you need to be in a State hospital ‘cause you have to be diagnosed with a mentally incapable diagnosis. And I don’t fit under that criteria. I have an emotional diagnosis which basically when I get upset, angry, stressed out, frustrated, I have behavioral problems. Which anyone living through my history would.

SP: Right.

VF: And just ‘cause I don’t manage them the way that they want to train me to manage them, I’m in the wrong. I mean, they come in here and expect you to be a perfect human being. They don’t want you to curse. They don’t want you to get upset. They want you to make your bed. They want you to go to Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 30 your programs. They want you to do this. They want to mandate you to smoke ten cigarettes a day. They want to mandate you to take a shower every other day. Um, they mandate you to do all the things that they know damn well you wouldn’t…excuse my language, I’m sorry…that they know you damn well you wouldn’t do in the community. They know you’re not going to stick to ten cigarettes a day in the community. They know that you’re not going to stick to taking a shower every other day in the community. They know that in the community you’re going to eat whatever you want not, ah, ah, a nutritious balanced diet according to them. They know that in, in the community, you’re not going to stick to a scheduled every day program unless you’re working. You know what I’m saying? So, they’re training you to…I feel my attitude about this facility, yeah, I’ve never been sexually abused here. Yeah, I’ve never been physically abused here. But, yet I do feel unsafe here for the simple reason that some of the rules that, that they have here are something that you would do with a child. How you would treat a child ‘cause you feel a child is going to hang up in his room or a child is going to have sex with another child. Things…those type of rules that are very immature and bogus for a full grown male adult. You can’t even watch a rated “R” movie. We can’t even watch a rated “R” movie because they’re saying because in here we have such a vast variety of, ah, illnesses from rapist, child molesters, women beaters, ah, sex offenders and stuff like that. That rated “R” is considered immature for us. Full grown adults. Okay. I can understand the cigarette policy. Okay. They don’t want you having matches because of the fire setters. They don’t want you to have cigarettes on your person because of people trying to sell them and making money. Um, I can understand them limiting our smoking. But I find that when I was here from ’90 to ’94, we had an open smoking policy. You could not just carry matches or lighters. Whenever you wanted a cigarette, you went up to a TA. They gave you a light and you went and smoked it. Now we get ten cigarettes a day. We have so many problems now because that rule has changed but I can understand because State law says we’re not supposed to smoke in state facilities. That’s law. But we’re still allowed to smoke here. So, I’m not pushing that issue. My issue is like when we’re sleeping in our rooms, Mike says that’s a safety issue if people are smoking in rooms or if someone hangs up or cuts up in a room, but Mike also…so, now we have to keep our doors ajar. I mean, we have to put a sheet up in the door and keep it like that far open. Six to eight inches any time we’re in our room. Privacy is one issue. We don’t get privacy here. Women walk in the shower room when we’re in there. They walk right into our rooms when we’re in our rooms. Ah, they walk into the bathroom to do the account while we’re sitting on the bowls and stuff like that. No respect for privacy here. I have…all facilities I’ve been at I’ve never seen…except Mid-Hudson…where they are respecting our privacy as male clients…this whole facility is run basically by all females. This unit. We only got two male staff and two male nurses that work this unit on all three shifts. And we have no male staff that worked on day shift, except for two male Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 31

nurses, and we have no male TA’s on night shift. And that’s when we got to get up and we got to get dressed in the morning. And she’ll just walk right into your room while you can be fully no…unclothed and I have issues where I’ve been raped by female staff. So, where they may feel it’s safe that they got to check on you and they got to keep watch on you, but I feel very traumatized every time I’m getting up or I’m getting dressed and a woman is pushing open my door ‘cause how do I know what she’s going to do because of my trauma issues when I was small. And then with them having the doors open, now they have no initiative to knock that they’re coming in. And I was traumatized ‘cause when I was in another facility, I…the same rule applied there where you had to keep your doors unlocked. They had a schizophrenic who walked in my room while I was sleeping, crack me over the head with a metal mop and they were going to put me in the hospital for two weeks with a concussion. So, those are my trauma issues. So, do I feel safe here? No. Do they make you feel safe here? No. They change rules by the week. They do. Every week there’s something new that they’re throwing at us to make it more secure, more tight, more aggravating, more frustrating to be here. I mean, if we were all three and four year old kids and needed to be watched and pampered like their mommies and daddies watching, yeah, then I can understand that. But we’re all thirty, forty, fifty, sixty years, eighty and ninety year old men and we got…now they turned back in court and we have two females so, I don’t feel I should be treated like a child and I don’t think that they should have rules that I feel unsafe having. I don’t feel that they should have a rule that it’s enforced in their safety issues, but then I have trauma issues behind it. Which they continually do here.

SP: They don’t’ seem to acknowledge….

VF: No, they don’t care. They do not care what so ever. That’s one thing that I’ve learned ever since…the last couple of days they’ve been talking about closing this place down…the attitude, the compassion and the willingness to help of staff and everybody has diminished to nothing. Staff are now writing each other up for every little thing. I watched two female staff getting almost into a fist fight right in the day room with a day room full of clients. Is that therapeutic or what? I’ve seen this stuff in this facility. Okay. I have…I feel comfort here with certain staff because no matter what happens to them, they will always show love and compassion with us because we’re human beings. But the majority of them treat us like animals. Treat us like we’re kids and just don’t give a damn what goes on here. They have no compassion towards life is what it…the attitudes are here. Um, and when I see stuff like this retention here (short pause) anger comes out of me because now I know if I don’t get a good court case going for myself, I could be stuck here the whole twelve months and they will see to it that I stay here the whole twelve months because someone like me they make, you know, $150,000 a year off of…opposed to someone whose here by the family…they may get only $25 Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 32

grand from someone who was sent here through another facility may be getting $50 grand. You know. I feel bad for what the basis…this facility…so they can keep it open is well, he ain’t got no housing. He ain’t got no family defendants, so let’s keep him here year after year after year. And that’s what they do. They will find the most pettiest reason to keep a patient in here. If you don’t keep your room clean, they won’t let you go on a day pass or give you an A-3. Am I living in their house? No. I’m living in the State issued house. I’m not living in their home. You know what I’m saying. They’re not my mother and father. If I don’t want to sit there and clean up in and around my bed, it’s not in the hospital manuals that I can’t….it says that I’m allowed to refuse all, any and all treatment. They make it impossible why you can’t do that. You have to make a decision. Refuse treatment and never get discharged. Never get an A-3. Never go anywhere in this place. Or you can bow down, kiss and do everything that they ask you to do and they might discharge you in the next couple of years.

SP: What’s…you mentioned A-1 and A-3…

VF: Those are levels of precaution. If someone cuts themselves…like I have a history of doing…they put you on a Level 1…either a one to one where staff has to sit right next to you at all times or an A-1 to 1where staff has to be in view of you at all times. Lo and behold when I go on precaution, I don’t take showers and I try to go to the bathroom as least as I can. If I have to hold it in for 24 hours, I will because I am not going to have a staff going in the shower with me because I will react physically because of being raped and everything when I was younger in State hospitals by female employees. Um, when I go to the bathroom…if they will not let me close the door or if they don’t stand outside the stall where they can’t see me, I won’t go. I would rather urinate on myself and go to the bathroom myself because that’s the fear I got from these places of being locked up and being raped and beaten repeatedly when I was younger. But they don’t think of trauma issues like that, but yet they got me going to Reconnections Trauma Group.

SP: When did that start:

VF: I’ve been going to that since I’ve been back in here this time. It’s a new program that they just initiated because of DPT program, ah, 403 which is a behavior modification program.

SP: Is that part of Middletown Psyche?

VF: Yeah, it is now.

SP: And, um, did you ever talk to them about some of the issues that you have to deal with? Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 33

VF: They don’t care. They don’t care. They’re saying that we’ve got to look out for the safety of everybody on this unit. If you got trauma issues, deal with it in your trauma group. We don’t want to hear it.

SP: And do you tell your trauma group about it?

VF: Yeah. But what does it tell you? That a bunch of patients with the three step that don’t even work this unit. It’s where three…we got, I mean, ah, ah, a trauma group with three female staff that work on a female unit and half the group…most of the group is females clients. We got four or five females…I think five now and only three males from this unit. Those females staff that are running the group know the female clients and their history because they read their charts. They work with them every day. I feel…I’m, I’m dropping out of Reconnections with the trauma group because I feel like us males are, are being alienated. We’re in a group where we’re self-expressing ourselves to females who don’t have any clue to who they are. And yet, the other members of the group, the females, know everything about their nurses and everything because they live with them everyday. They work on their unit. So, I’m breaking it to the team that I’m dropping out of that group. I’m tired that every time that…and the group’s going nowhere. Since they’ve started that group last year, a year ago, it’s gotten nowhere. We’re still going over the rules and regulations. We’re still going out and getting new people in the group. We’re still getting at changing one of the TA’s. We’re still trying to get TA’s to attend the group. I mean, it’s crazy. I’ve been doing that for a year with this group now and I’m, I’m like tired of it. I’m ready to get my life together and get out of here no matter what it takes and if that means that sometimes I gotta give up something that they feel I need just to get out of here, I will do that. You know what I’m saying? But that group is a frustration to me. It’s no longer helping me. It’s no longer doing that. It’s all it’s doing is creating frustration and aggravations in my life and I don’t need that right now, you know. But it is…I say for the overall part, this hospital is relaxed. It’s a good hospital. (Skip in tape). They have people who do care. They got people who…you got some staffing that will do for patients. That will go out of the way to comfort patients to protect patients. But overall, this hospital, I feel that when they said two years ago that they were going to close it, they should have. They should have shipped the patients that are chronically ill out to another facility to be cared for and the ones that got potential ship them out to community residences, family cares and stuff like that because the facility ain’t doing nothing but going down hill. Over the years I’ve been in this one facility, it’s gotten from all right to bad to progressively worst to probably this is now considered one of the worst facilities that I’ve actually had to live through in terms of mental and emotional wellness. You’re not going to see it here. Guys get worse here. Clients get worse here. Staff has gotten worse here. Working in this facility…I mean, I don’t recommend this facility to Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 34

anybody even a chronically ill person because they get worse. They don’t get better. They get worse. You should see what…you should see what their discharge scale rate is. Very few people get out and stay.

SP: They usually come back?

VF: Yeah. They come back numerous times over. Back and forth. In and out. In and out. We’ve got people who’ve been here thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, eighty, ninety years because they came in here when they were teenagers, got hooked on medication, got comfortable with all their do for me all the time and now they don’t know how to survive on their own. They don’t know how to cook a meal for themselves. They don’t know how to drive a car. They don’t know how to say no to somebody. They don’t know how to do anything for themselves anymore. They bring them in here. They just want to get them stabilized and get them back out again but the mandatory months turns into six months. Six months turns into a year. The year turns into two years. That two years turns into two, two, two and just keeps right on going. (Pause) I, I could say over half of this population has done five to 24 years in this place straight. That we got in this facility now had been here five or more years straight without a discharge. Half. Over half of the population has been in and out…has done five or more straight years in this facility. Why? The excuse they give us that yeah, you’re great for discharge. We want you discharged. We have no place to send you. You have no place to send me but didn’t I just watch three people get discharged last week to community residences, family care and RRSS? What do you mean there’s no place to send me? You know what I’m saying? These psychiatrists they have no place to send you but we watched people get discharged. Yeah, they come back. Okay, if they come back, then put me in his place. That means there’s an opening. If the person who left my unit got discharged to a community residence and he comes back in a week because he didn’t work out there, why isn’t there an opening then? Oh, because we have a list of 500 other people who are optioned before you. So you’re trying to tell me that I can’t get out then? You’re telling me that I can’t go to my own apartment. You’re telling me I can’t go to a supportive apartment. You’re telling me the only chance is a community residence or RRSS. But there are no openings so no matter how well I do, you can’t get me out. No matter how good. No matter how well I do in program. No matter how compliant I am with my medication, you can’t do nothing because there’s no place to send me. So, I may as well make this my home. You’re telling me that I might as well make this my home. If this is my home, then things got to change ‘cause I don’t want to feel unsafe in my home. I don’t want to feel that any time a patient wants to slug me up the side the head, I can’t react to her and nothing’s going to be done about it. There’s going to be no charges pressed or anything against this patient. We just had that happen. A nurse got smashed over the head with a chair just a couple of weeks ago. They sent him down to jail. He’s sitting Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 35

over on 303 now and this very same patient put a, a female client…a female staff on this unit just last February in the hospital and put her out for three months because he slammed her up the head with a, with a big boom box. She had stitches across her head. She had a mild concussion. That same patient went to court and was arraigned on both charges sitting over on 303 until the courts decide what they want to do with them. They do that on the regular here. They have a client here who was her not too long ago who is now sitting in Mid-Hudson because he decided to hit a safety officer. But he was on here for three months hitting patients, hitting TA’s. He was on a level. He wasn’t in isolation, seclusion. They keep putting him out in general population. You’re here to tell me that someone…and it was like…this unit was at a Richter Scale stress level of 100 with that client. It finally took…he hit a safety officer. The safety officer called, called someone and transferred him to Mid-Hudson. But he hit four or five TA’s. He probably hit half the general population of patients on the unit. They’re saying that if a patient goes off and hits another client, it’s okay. If he hits a TA, it’s okay. But don’t hit Sherry Coal. Don’t hit Janet Bob. Don’t hit the doctor. Don’t hit safety ‘cause you’ll go to prison or jail or Mid-Hudson. Is that a safe environment? And we see that go on here all the time. We get violent crimes coming in here from another facility or jail or off the street that think they can hit and assault people left and right and the patients are getting out here that that’s okay. So now more and more people are saying…doing it. They’re following the beam. They’ve had bad vibes with the TA and they see someone else hitting the TA and they got away with it, they say, well maybe I can get revenge on that TA, client with a chair. I mean, that’s the way it is here.

SP: Do you see now, you know, based on what your experience with this, do you see…how do you see your future? Do you see getting yourself out?

VF: No. Not with this sitting in front of me. It just prevents me from getting out for twelve months.

SP: An additional twelve months?

VF: Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m involuntary. The doctor’s not going to make me voluntary. He told me that when I first came back from Chester, I’m not turning you back voluntary because you’re going to take me to court and you’re going to win. He told me that straight out. He says, “If I make you voluntary, you’re going to take me to court. You’re going to win and I don’t want you leaving…not until everyone feels you’re ready to leave. So until we all feel you’re ready to leave, you’re going to be involuntary,” so this is why he slaps stuff like this on me…twelve months. If I’m involuntary and he puts a twelve month retention, I’ll be here twelve months. He will see to it that I’m stuck here for that twelve months. It has never failed. I have hit every retention full length from the first time I was admitted at the age of four in Rockland because I was placed by Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 36

the State or the Department of Social Services. They are making mega bucks off of a client like me compared to someone whose family placed them there or someone who comes from another institution. They’re making like twice the amount of money off of someone like me whose placed by the, by the State or the government. So, I see this as being a big money making business and as long as they got clients like me who, who, who don’t have anybody to fight for them to get out, or no public people to fight for, with to get out, they’ll do this until the day I end up dying in one of these places. You know what I mean? It took me two years to get out last time before they finally felt comfortable enough to discharge me to community residence and that was because I took…

TAPE 2, SIDE 2

VF: This is like looking at a prison sentence right here when they give you something like this because every crime that gets one he knows he’s doing that time. No matter how he tries to fight it in the courts with the lawyer, he stays the whole time.

SP: Even if you talk to your lawyer about it?

VF: Even if I talk to my lawyer. They’re always going to say you’re involuntary. There’s nothing I can do. I can’t…

SP: It’s court order.

VF: It’s court order. You know, two physicians got me here. I’ve already heard from them they’re not changing it back to voluntary so I’m stuck here for another twelve months whether I like it or not. And it’s almost like getting a prison sentence for, for what? Did I do something against the law? You know what I’m saying? Did I do something that was so, so wrongly against the law that they lock me up in a psyche center for twelve months without a legal psychiatric illness? Because according to the law, criminal law, in order for you to keep a patient in a psychiatric center you have to have them indicted with a psychiatric illness. They don’t have that on me. They have me labeled…what they can keep me in for is because it’s an emotional illness. So it is labeled under an illness but it has nothing to do with the brain. It has to do with the emotions. You know how many people out there in the streets that have to be considered borderline personality disorders because they yell at somebody or because they, they raised their hands to somebody or because they threw something across the room? Probably billions of people out there. But is that a reason to keep someone locked up for year after year after year? You know what I’m saying? That’s what they’ve been doing with me and yeah, I have breaking points where I just say enough is enough and I show violence because I get tired of them taking my life and Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 37 throwing it down the drain ‘cause they feel because of a history event I need to stay locked up when they don’t even give me the benefit of the doubt and give me the chance I ask for. Release me into a supported apartment or my own apartment and may God swear me dead on my word that you will see a different Mr. Flood. Don’t send Mr. Flood to a community residence you want me to go to or RRSS or you want me to go to because it’s just like being in a State institution there. You know what I’m saying? You’ve done it with others and those other people are still out there. Their history might not be as extensive as mine, but close. They’re still out there and they’re surviving. You’re talking going on a couple of years now. Why won’t you do it with me? Because you’re afraid if I do get out there I might kill myself? I might kill someone else because it’s been in my history that I’ve done it? Or because I might turn to drugs or alcohol or because if I do something that you can be held liable? No, you won’t be held liable if you release me. You will be held reliable (sic) if you release me and you still keep me attached to MPC with AOT, Mental Health, your program. You will be held reliable (sic) because you’re still caring for me while I’m out there. If you release me into supportive, my own apartment, how are you held reliable (sic)? I am now responsible for my own actions and according to law I will be…if I do anything wrong or against the law, I will be held recount able (sic) as an individual for those. Not you. So your action will probably be giving, relieving yourself from a lot of headaches and a lot of stress if you would just grant me what I want. But you refuse to do it because you’re stubborn and you know you’re making money off of me and you could do this for year after year after year and I have no choice but to accept it. ‘Cause I could have been out there in the world probably years ago if it wasn’t for you getting me in the system, hooking me up on medications and programs that are totally non-beneficial, not helpful for the times. You got programs set up so a person can live comfortably within the facility and then you wonder why people…some people do everything in their power not to when you want them to leave. I mean, it’s, it’s a crazy system. It’s so screwed up. And the way it’s gotten in the last couple of years because of the threat of it closing down completely and being shut down and everything, the respect is totally gone. Nobody cares about anybody. The level of frustration…stress is always at level ten now. It never even subsides. Um, none of those programs down there are at all beneficial or helpful in the day treatment. None of them. Those programs are designed to keep a patient hospitalized so they can learn how to function within the facility. That’s what it’s designed for. They don’t orientate you into the community. They don’t take you to the community for van trips. They don’t take you to the community for friends. They don’t have funding. We can’t get a van. We don’t have staffing. These are your excuses but yet this is supposed to be a temporary holding spot until (unclear)…and then we’ll get you back in the community. But yet, over half the population has been here five or more years. That is something that needs to change. There’s no…it’s inhumane to take a person who has a breakdown, bring him in, put him on Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 38

medication and take…strip him of his dignity and hope and his self respect for the rest of his life because he had a nervous breakdown. Many cases like that in here. Being trapped in a system with no way out. And the only way that they do let you releases is the, the…if you have perfect behavior for their time slot…six months, a year, two years…five years. That’s the only relevant issue. The day, if they sit there and they tell you we want, ah, a lengthy time with you, ah, ah, an eventful free behavior. That means that they want you to be perfect for whatever allotment time. They won’t tell you how long. They just say for a lengthy time. It could be three months, six months, a year, two years, five years. You have to be perfect. That means no yelling. No screaming. No outbursts. Taking your medication. Being a part of the program. Following every rule and regulation that they throw at you every week. Um, no raising your voice. No cursing at…no verbal threats. No nothing. Because if you have any of that within their timeframe, you’re starting that time all over again which is why I got this because I just had an outburst last week. I threw some chairs and tables because they…I was on contract and they gave me…they didn’t grant me something that I was supposed to get according to the contract was a day pass. Dr. Shours told me no, you can’t have a day pass until you get to Level B. Once you get to Level B, you can have the day pass. So, I got to Level B. It took me two months to get it. But I got it. And then he still denied me the day pass. Then he says you have to earn that day pass. So I flipped off. I went crazy. I lost control. So they took away the A-3, dropped me down to an A-1 for violent behavior and then I got a, ah, went back to an A-3 and they denied to go on the walk, ah, on the A-3. So, and we were on the unit all locked indoor and they denied us an extra cigarette. This was on a Thursday or Friday. They were not going to give us an extra cigarette. No program all afternoon…watching stupid soap operas on the TV. A unit full of men watching soap operas because that’s what the female staff wants…soap operas. So we have to watch it. We have no choice. And they wouldn’t give us supper so I sat there and I took a battery from my Game Boy and a wire from a headset, and I lit up a cigarette. They put me…they put me on a Level 1-A, cause they thought I was going to go off because they put me on 24 hour smoking restrictions. So they put me on 24 hour smoking restriction and 1-A. I went off and gave them a reason to put me on 1-A.

SP: Right. Because at that point…

VF: What’s the difference? They didn’t have a reason to put me on 1-A because I was not assaultive (sic). I was not self abusive in any way. I was smoking an illegal cigarette. Yes, smoking, smoking precaution was ligit. That’s the rule here that you get caught smoking or with contraband, it’s 24 hour restriction. That was legit. But when he came out and said you’re also going to be placed on 1-A. That’s where he was in the wrong and that’s why I went off on him. He had no reason to put me on 1-A. I never did any…I was not doing Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 39 anything wrong. I smoked an illegal cigarette. He put me on probation. I said fine. He says but also with that you’re getting, ah, we’re putting him on, ah, Level 1-A precaution. I said, “What! Okay. Now I will give you a reason to put me on there.” That’s when I started throwing things around, chairs and stuff because he set me off. He had no reason to put me on the level he put me on because he…for whatever reason, he felt was deem able and I did nothing to be placed on the level, then I needed to give him a reason to put me on the level. And he did. I was off the following day, both the level and the smoking restriction and now I’m back on the A-2 and I’ve been on the A-2 for a week and I didn’t even want to put in for a level this week because it would of…(unclear)…and I’m supposed…I’m surprised I didn’t get it this week get my A-3 back because high risk is involved. And high risk sees everything that we, everything that we do and say, they are charting it. Charting, charting, charting. They keep so close tabs on you, that everything you say and do that’s out of the norm can be held against you. It can keep you here for months and months and months. That’s why they use these things. They don’t want to tell you verbally so they send you this. The doctor don’t want to tell me (unclear)…so that you need to stay here twelve months. So instead he gives you this and then he sets up a nice little treatment plan for you and I’m like why, what’s the process of the treatment plan meetings when I’m going to be here for months. You issue a treatment plan meeting every three months. Why set a treatment plan meeting when you have every intention of keeping me here for twelve months? Treatment plan meetings don’t mean anything to me at this point and that’s what I keep telling him. If they give me a treatment plan and let me out within the three months, yeah, I’ll be more than willing to sign. But if you’re going to sit there and make me sign a treatment plan meeting that you have no intention of following and plan on keeping me here for twelve months, then I’m not going to sign it and I’m not going, I’m not going to adhere to everything that’s on it. I will live as if I were living at home in here which means when I bring in countraband, coffee, cigarettes…the same things I would at home, you know. I have a problem here as you can see. If you would have interviews with other people, they would be telling you the same thing that they promise the world to them and out of the world they don’t see nothing. They see these walls 24 seven every day, day in, day out with no hope. No inspiration to get out cause they lock you up in here and they take away everything you had…your self respect, your dignity, your freedom, everything. They just strip from you and you literally feel like a caged animal that has no rights. That has no self respect. That has no nothing. I mean, that’s the way they make you feel here. Um, I’m not saying…years ago it was probably a little bit better but over the years because of all the changes within the facility that were out of the facility’s hands, just really made them more intolerable to like people here or get along with people or help people here. They…I mean, I’m pretty sure they’re so scared about this place closing down and some people being out of jobs, that right now they make you so safe, secure and so security, that they’re not Victor November 1, 2002 Page: 40

watching how much harm they’re doing to clients, to their own employees. ‘Cause they’re doing a lot of harm. More harm than good. So…people have gotten so scared that they’ve actually resigned from here. Quit. Got jobs elsewhere ‘cause (short pause) fear. I mean, that’s how…things are based on fear here and that’s, that’s lately and in the last couple of years here. This facility is so fear stricken of something happening that they…that everything is safety and straight. It’s almost like living in prison here. It is. Where in prison you’ve done a crime where you’ve expected of them to strip your freedom, your dignity and everything from you because you’ve done something against the law. But you don’t expect that from a place where you’re supposed to get compassion, care and help for your illness. But everybody here feels like they’re trapped and that’s that. And that’s not a good feeling. That’s the end of my statement.

SP: Thank you. I appreciate it.