WILLIAM J. DREYER (1928–2004) INTERVIEWED BY SHIRLEY K. COHEN February 18th–March 2, 1999 .Photo be Robert Paz, Caltech ARCHIVES CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY Pasadena, California Subject area Biology, immunology, biochemistry Abstract An interview in five sessions in 1999 with William J. Dreyer, molecular immunologist and Caltech professor of biology (1963-2004). He begins with a discussion of how some people think visually, himself included—a theme to which he returns repeatedly in the interview. He speaks of his family history: childhood in Michigan and Wisconsin; his Norwegian father and possible inherited family traits including dyslexia and mental imaging. Recalls his education at Reed College in Oregon (BA chemistry, 1952) and graduate study at University of Washington (PhD in biochemistry, 1956); works under H. Neurath at UW. First occurrence of cancer while in graduate school. He goes to National Institutes of Health (NIH) as a National Polio Foundation postdoc, where he works on proteins with C. Anfinsen; becomes research scientist at NIH; assists M. Nirenberg in work on genetic code. Meets and works with G. Streisinger on genetic mapping with phage. Still at NIH begins inventing machinery for automating biochemical analyses. Recruited to Caltech and accepts appointment in biology division in 1963. Together with J. Claude Bennett writes major papers on genetic coding for protein http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W structure, gene splicing and monoclonal antibodies. Recalls Leroy Hood’s arrival at Caltech in 1963 as grad student. Dreyer’s consulting work for Spinco division of Beckman Instruments; helps in the design of an automated protein sequencer; his continuing interest in new technologies. Work in 1960s with W. Gray on sequencing protein in a mass spectrometer for JPL; collaborates with Gray and Hood on 1967 Cold Spring Harbor symposium paper on antibody formation. Roger Sperry at Caltech; his influence on Dreyer. Work on the protein rhodopsin. Robert Sinsheimer as biology division chairman. During 1970s and 80s Caltech develops series of more and more sensitive instruments to synthesize and analyze genes and proteins. 1982 recurrence of Dreyer’s cancer. Creation of company Applied Biosystems with Hood and M. Hunkapiller; issues arise over patents and royalties. Dreyer’s work with Milton Wexler’s Hereditary Disease Foundation. Caltech’s Beckman Institute; recruitment of Scott Fraser and creation of Biology Imaging Center at Caltech. Study of olfactory receptors; “area code” hypothesis in embryogenesis. Capillary electrophoresis; the Human Genome Project. Recent experiments involving gene deletion and DNA alteration. Administrative information Access The interview is unrestricted. Copyright Copyright has been assigned to the California Institute of Technology © 2005. All requests for permission to publish or quote from the transcript must be submitted in writing to the University Archivist. Preferred citation Dreyer, William. Interview by Shirley K. Cohen. Pasadena, California, February 18–March 2, 1999. Oral History Project, California Institute of Technology Archives. Retrieved [supply date of retrieval] from the World Wide Web: http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W Contact information Archives, California Institute of Technology Mail Code 015A-74 Pasadena, CA 91125 Phone: (626)395-2704 Fax: (626)793-8756 Email: [email protected] Graphics and content © 2005 California Institute of Technology. http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W In the early 1970s Bill Dreyer developed an automated mass spectrometer to speed up the flow of data during experiments aimed at determining how cells synthesize antibodies. Photo by Floyd Clark, Engineering & Science, Mar-Apr 1974. http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM J. DREYER BY SHIRLEY K. COHEN PASADENA, CALIFORNIA Caltech Archives, 2005 Copyright © 2005 by the California Institute of Technology http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W Dreyer–ii PREFACE TO THE INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM J. DREYER The interview with William J. Dreyer, Caltech Professor of Biology, as recorded early in 1999, presented significant difficulties in transcription and editing. The quality of the recording itself was poor, due partly to inadequate equipment. There were many inaudible words and phrases. Unfortunately Bill Dreyer’s health failed, and he did not live long enough to review the full transcript, although he did read and correct a part of the first session. The Archives is very grateful to his widow, Dr. Janet Roman Dreyer, for her invaluable help in unraveling some of the problem portions. A few of her comments—marked with initials JRD—have been added to the transcript as footnotes. The final transcript still has a number of missing words and phrases. Some elusive segments could be teased out with great patience. Others have remained unresolved. Portions that are still questionable or lacking have been filled in or noted in square brackets by the editors, to the best of their ability. Charlotte E. Erwin Associate Archivist June 2005 http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W Dreyer–iii TABLE OF CONTENTS INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM J. DREYER Session 1 1-3 Discussion on brain imaging and how some people think in images. Thomas West’s book on visual imagery. James Olds; Roger Sperry. Personal difficulties with studying; discussion on dyslexia and imaging. 3-9 Family background: Born in Michigan; Norwegian father. Discusses apparent dyslexic genetic trait in family. Father emigrates to US, meets mother in Michigan; family’s move to Wauwatosa, Wisconsin. Early interest in science and mechanical things; high school. Father dies in 1938; mother moves family to Norway in 1939; their return to US when World War II begins. 9-24 College years: Family’s move to Oregon; begins studies at University of Oregon; fraternity life. Accepted to Reed College a year later. Interest in psychology and biology; becomes a chemistry major. Senior year diagnosed with embryonal carcinoma. Finishes thesis in 1952. Influence of Wendell Stanley. Marries first wife Mary; expect first child. Graduate work at University of Washington under biochemistry chair Hans Neurath; completes PhD in 1956. Session 2 25-31 Discussion of early years: After father’s death, summers with uncle in Michigan; visits relatives in Norway. At Reed College, fascinated with Frank Hungate’s Neurospora work, and the chemistry and leading-edge work on radioisotopes and amino acids with Art Livermore. At University of Washington, Neurath’s well equipped, state-of-the-art lab. 31-37 NIH: To NIH as a National Polio Foundation postdoc and works with Christian Anfinsen on protein evolution. Phage work. Works with George Streisinger on genetic mapping. Becomes an NIH research scientist. Works with Marshall Nirenberg. Presents work in Moscow and at Brookhaven. Invitation by Robert Sinsheimer to give a seminar at Caltech. Instrument development at NIH, Gilson, Inc., and Caltech. 37-49 Caltech early years: In 1961, receives offer of full professorship at Caltech; accepts in 1963; Ray Owen biology division chair. Works with Mike Potter of the National Cancer Institute studying proteins in urine and myeloma. Together with J. Claude Bennett writes paper on genetic coding for protein structure; both interested in immunology. Lee Hood comes to Caltech in 1963 as grad student. Dreyer does consulting work for Spinco division of Beckman http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechOH:OH_Dreyer_W Dreyer–iv Instruments; helps in the design of an automated protein sequencer. Together with Bennett writes papers regarding gene splicing and monoclonal antibodies, considered radical thinking for the times. In 1967, Cold Spring Harbort meeting; in attendance Gerry Edelman, Francis Crick, César Milstein, Lee Hood and Dreyer. Session 3 50-56 Recap of previous session: Dreyer’s continuous interest in building instruments and developing tools and methods; early interest in experimental embryology; and his life-long commitment to understand what life is—at the physics and chemistry level. Dreyer’s confidence in inventing new lab instruments, and consequently his impact on science due to these tools. Further discussion of years at NIH and early years at Caltech; work with Bill Gray. Cold Spring Harbor meeting in 1967. Lee Hood. Roger Sperry. 56-58 The field of biology: Predicts a major shift in biology regarding the nature of DNA. Lee Hood’s work on antibodies; Susumu Tonegawa’s work. The fears of manipulating genes and thereby possibly creating and introducing a new virus. 58-64 Caltech in the 1960s: Works with Bill Gray developing a tool for sequencing protein in a mass spectrometer for JPL. Per Edman of Australia and an automated sequencing machine; Dreyer’s interest in building one with Beckman Instruments’ help. Work on the protein rhodopsin. Robert Sinsheimer as biology division chairman. 64-75 Caltech in the 1970s-1980s: Lee Hood’s return to Caltech. Funding issues regarding development of a new more sensitive sequencing machine. Issues regarding patents and royalties; patent lawyer Russell Palmer advises Dreyer. Suzanna Horvath and John Racs work with Dreyer. Lee Hood good at raising money. Together with Aron Kupperman develops a sensitive mass spectrometer, built at JPL. In 1982, diagnosed with colon cancer; Mike Hunkapiller takes over work on spectrometer and gas-phase sequencer during Dreyer’s recovery. Hood, Hunkapiller, and Dreyer work