231 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 232 Bill, 1978 [Shri Bhupesh Gupta] during the last two years, a tho- rough review of the law wiH be under the changed political situation undertaken with a view to repeal- he need not go by the administrative ing it and examining whether the and bureaucratic rule. A political existing laws need further streng- decision can be taken by him. I beg thening to deal with the economic oi him and I beg of all that these two offences and security of the coun- young sons of Bengal, Mr. Kanu try without denying the right to Sanyal and Mr. Souren Bose be res- approach the courts." tored to West Bengal. The West Bengal Government demands it the Accordingly the matter was examined public demands it and all of us de- and it was felt that if there were no mand it; it is a national demand in- Central laws to provide for preven- deed and I do hope that everybody's tive detention, difficulties might be voice will be raised in support of this experienced in dealing with certain damand, and above all there will be serious situations. However, it was the voice of the former Prime Minis- felt that reliable and adequate safe- ter of the country, Shrimati Indira guards should be provided in the law Gandhi. to prevent any misuse. The Code of Criminal Procedure (Amendment) MR. CHAIRMAN: Now the House Bill, 1977 was introduced in the Lok stands adjourned for lunch to Sabha on the 23rd /December;, 1977 reassemble at 2.10 P.M. with these objects in view. But con- sidering the misgivings expressed The House then adjourned even in regard to the provisions in for lunch at ten minutes past the said amendment Bill and the per- one of the clock. sistent apprehensions that powers of preventive detention could be mis- used notwithstanding such safeguards, The House reassembled after lunch the Government reconsidered the mat- at twelve minutes past two of the ter. An announcement in this regard clock, Mr. Deputy Chairman in the was made by the then Home Minister Chair. in this House on the 23rd March, 1978. The Code of Criminal Procedure THE MAINTENANCE OF INTERNAL (Amendment) Bill, 1977 was with- SECURITY (REPEAL) BILL, 1978 drawn on the 30th March, 1978. And THE MINISTER OF JSTATE IN a Bill to repeal the Maintenance of THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS Internal Security Act was introduced (SHRI DHANIK LAL MANDAL): in the Lok Sabha on 19th April, 1978. Sir, I beg to move: The Bill has been passed by the Lok Sabha on 19th Julv, 1978. I earnestly "That the Bill to repeal the Main- hope that honourable Members would tenance of Internal Security Act, support the repeal of MISA. 1971, as passed by the Lok Sabha, be taken into consideration." With these words I move that the Bill be taken into consideration. 'Sir, hon. Members are aware that the Election Manifesto of the Janata The question was proposed. Party provides, inter alia, that MISA would be repealed. The policy of the Government in this regard was stated in the Address of the Acting President to the two Houses of Parliament on the 28th March, 1977, in the follow- ing words: "Having regarding to the gross abuse to which the maintenance of Internal Security Act has been put 233 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 234 Bill, 1978

235 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 236 Biit, 1978

237 Maintenance oi Internal [27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 238 Bill, 1978

239 Maintenance oi Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 240 Bill, 1978

May I speak or the hon. Minister •wiH continue his dialogue . . . (In- terruption) .

241 Maintenance of Internal [27 JULY 1978] Security (Repeal) 242 Bill, 1978

tinued up to 1969. Again, because of a delicate situation, the Maintenance of Internal Security Act was brought into the Statute Book in 1971. There was threatened invasion from Pakis- tan and thousands of people which grew into millions were coming from the then Pakistan to India, subver- sive activities were growing and the situation was such that it was thought necessary to bring a provision by which the preventive action could be taken to safeguard the integrity of this country. But we have seen and this has been our experience and probably we must learn a lesson from it that when power is concentrated in the hands of an individual or even a Government by this type of statute, the tendency ultimately grows for the power to g,o tangentially and that has SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Assam): been our unfortunate experience dur- Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I take my ing the last few years. When the Re- stand here to support this Bill and I peal Act has been brought to this consider that this is one of the boldest House, Sir, we all welcome it and I measures that the Janata Government feel that the Government |has 'un- has taken during their 18 months' doubtedly done a very bold thing. rule. Therefore, this House will whole- But, at the same time, we must re- heartedly welcome this measure. cognise this fact that this has brought additionali responsibility Any provision of preventive deten- to the Government because though tion is incompatible with democarcy. the Maintenance of Internal Security However, even the advanced countries Act was utilised undoubtedly in some have by now realised that to meet cases for political purposes which I certain contingencies certain specific must confess, it was also utilised to laws are to be brought. Even coun- Temove certain distortions in some, tries like the United States of Americat social and economic spheres. I feel as late as 1950j had to brhig on the that it is not necessary to have an Statute Book the Internal Security act like Maintenance of Internal Se- Act. But the unfortunate part of Indian curity Act to remove these distortions. political life has been that though But these distortions, to a certain ex- preventive detention was brought in- tent, were curbed through the help to the Statute Book as a temporary of the Maintenance of Internal Secu- measure, it almost continued as a rity Act and a common man or an permanent measure. The record shows ordinary man will be misled and he that when Mr. Patel brought the first will carry a wrong impression about Preventive Detention Act in the House this legislation if he findg that after as the Home Minister, he had to this Act has been repealed, these dis- pass agonising time and had to pass tortions are growing. The Govern- two sleepless nights before he really ment and the ruling party has the brought this measure into ths House. responsibility, in the interest of the At that time, the makers of modern democratic polity of this country, to India probably were confronted with see that these distortions do not grow the question of safeguarding the newly after the Act is repealed. It will be gained freedom and that required the a sad day both for this country, for bringing of the Preventive Detention the democracy i thi country and for Act. But, unfortunately, that Act con- n s

243 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 244 Bill, 1*978 [Shri Dinesh Goswami] belied. I myself was a victim of the the institutions of this country elections. They thought that with which we cherish il the Government, the change of the Government vir- by their half-hearted measures and tually a new climate will be created by their compromises, allow the dis- in which every individual will have tortions to grow. We have seen un- the opportunity, to express himself. fortunately, that during the last 15 After all, democracy does not merely mont.is of Janata rule, the distortions mean a rule of the majority. The have grown. I hope that every Janata essence of democracy is that indivi- Member will put his hands on his duals get fullest freedom of expres- heart and try to see what the effect sion, fullest opportunity where their of the Repeal Bill on the common man individuality blooms. But, unfortu- today is. If this Bill had been brought nately, we have seen that the Janata at the time when the Janata Party Party because of its inaptitudes, com- came into power, it would have gene- promises, because of its failure to rated a tremendous enthusiasm. But tackle problems or because they have today hardly the country is taking any been busy so far in fighting intra- notice of it. The Lok Sabha has party rivalry, have not been able to v.assed the Bill recently. But there create a climate in which the was hardly any response in the whole ordinary man in the street would feel country and the ordinary man in the that he has the opporunity of ex- street has allowed such a measure al- pressing himself freely in this coun- most to go unnoticed. This is the try. If the Home Minister of the fact of life which the country must country goes and tells the common take very serious note of and man: Look here, we have done a which the Government must take very tremendous thing, we have repealed serious note of because the the Maintenance of Internal Security ordinary man is feeling that merely by Act; his reply will be: What of it, the removal of this type of provision how does it help me? During the from the Statute Book his problems emergency at least I was safe fron are not solved. In the last election of the oppression of land-owners but 1977—We shall have to concede ar.d today I find that if I try to exert my confess—we lost and the Janata Party right over the land, well, either I came into power. No doubt, to am burnt or my family members are a certain extent, because of the burnt. Therefore, when we repeal this emergency excesses. But it was provision of law, if we really wart to also because of the fact that have its healthy impact on the society, during the emergency the peo- if we really want to create a psycho- ple felt suffocated and they logical climate in this country so that felt that a change in the political these laws may not be promulgated structure was neeessary so that they at any time in future, it is also our can express themselves freely. They duty to create a climats where the wanted to get away from the feeling ordinary man will be able to feel that of suffocation which they exprienced really a situation has been created during the emergency. The common where he treated as a part of the man's enthusiasm grew. But with society, a societv in which he has the the passing of time in the last 18 full right and opportunity to express months the enthusiasm has virtually himself and where he is not pt the evaporated and if recent election re- mercv of the privileged few. Unfor- sults are anv indication then it is tu'i^teW. that situation we have -not seen the people have become indiffe- been able to create. We are talkirp, rent to this enthusiasm. Why is it in high terms of constitutional rights ?o? It is because in the 1977 elections and guarantees. What constitutional they voted the Janata Party to power. right of freedom of expression means They voted against the ruling party to an ordinary man who is striving in the high hopes and aspirations. every day for a square meal. After And those aspiration* have fully been all, to him it does not matter whether 245 Maintenance of Internal [27 JULY 1978] Security (Repeal) 246 Bill, 1978 one has the right of expression. We types of statutes are not important. talk about constitutional and funda- I have got my grave doubts her?. If mental rights of freedom of trade or you had asked an ordinary man in the freedo.-n of employment whan even street whether the Maintenance of graduates, science graduates and most Internal Security Act is necessary or of the degree holders are asking, for not immediately after the elections, peon's posts. When we put before he would have said: No, it is not ne- them the statute book and say: you eessary, scrap it. But today if a vote have got the fundamental right of is taken I have got my doubt as to freedom of trade and all that, to them what will be the percentage in its it seems to be the greatest mockery. favour or against it. It is not only To an ordinary Harijan when I say: to say positively in favour of MIS A you have got the right to propertv, it but it seems something has gone becomes a mockery because even wrong in the style and funct'oning of when he £33s io plough on the Janata Party itself, may ho in this land, the right which he the entire polity of the country in has legally got, he is put to which such a situation has emerged merciless troubles. Therefore, I r.fter 18 months of Janata Party's rale feel that while repealing this statute and I hope that the Janata Party wiH if we take the satisfaction that wo take note of it. have done everything, I think we wil) be misleading this country and we Before concluding, I will like to will be suffering from a gross delu- draw the attention of the Minister sion. That is why I feel that while that though the Maintenance }f Inter- we repeal this Act, while we pass Gujarat): Mr. whether this is the proper moment Deputy Chairman, Sir, in my opinion and that a number of common people, we are now passing through a historic whom only the hon. Member, Mr. moment when a black law is goin? Goswami, gets to talk to, have been to be thrown out lock stock and bar- telling him that this is not the right rel. It is strange that this historical time, that had it been done about Bill should have such an innocuous fifteen months ago, it would have been title as Bill No. 64-C of 1978, a Bill very... to repeal the Maintenance of Internal SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I think Security Act, 1971. The Maintenance Mr. Piloo Mody has completely mis- of Internal Security Act, 1971, is interpreted my speech. I never said hereby repealed. I should have that this is not the time when the Act thought that in a moment like this the should be repealed. I said this is the debate that we have been hearing so time. I only wanted that the Gov- far would have gone a little farther ernment should create a proper cli- than human proportions and that mate. Because of the deteriorating generosity would have flown a little law and order situation and other more freely because it is not often things, the common man should not that Parliament witnesses an Act be carried away by the feeling that which restores to the people what is this is not the right time. Now, be- legitimately theirs Acts of Parliament cause of these things the common over the years have always taken man is not feeling enthusiastic about away from the people whatever little it. The Government should create a they had. Therefore, when you are proper climate in which he feels en- today in a process of reversing that thusiastic about it. historical process, I should have ex- SHRI PILOO MODY: Sir, now that pected greater joy and greater mag- he has translated his own speech.. nanimity. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA (West Sir, I heard very carefully to the Bengal): Sir, we are looking forward extent that I could understand the with interest to his speech. Mr. Piloo hon. Member, Mr. Khurshed Alam Mody will be certainly right in comic Khan. While welcoming this Bill he footnote. has all manner of reservations. I do SHRI PILOO MODY: I am glad to not know why while trying to justify have a second translation by Mr. that there are times in the events of Goswami to what he said earlier. man when such draconian laws pre I d0 not dispute his translation absolutely necessary, the statement in either. He said that this was, itself could have passed by itself but perhaps not the proper moment and his obvious reference was that in the that it should have been done fifteen years of the emergency, in the years months ago when there was great en- 1975 and 1976, these laws were ab- thusiasm. I agree with him. This is solutely necessary. what he does not understand. I agree SHRI KHURSHED ALAM KHAN: with him whole-heartedly. As a I did not mention any years. matter of fact, I condemn my own SHRI PILOO MODY: He did not Government for not having brought mention any (years, but I think he forward this Bill earlier. Why have 249 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 250 BiW~ls. I can- over-sensitive to apologise for the past not understand this strange logic. in terms of defending it, and instead Law must apply ecinally to to create a future in terms of bringing you as it does to every o'her it about. citizen in this country. To think I thank you, Sir. 251 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 252 Bill. 1978 SHR BHUPESH GUPTA; Sir, I Charan sfcigh has gone faster than rise to whole-heartedly welcome this MISA and Mr. Charan Singh wanted Bill to keep it alive. SHRI PILOO MODY: No 'buts' now. Sir, as you know, in the beginning of the Session when the President SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: There entered the Central Hall to address is no reservation whatsoever in wel- us, I got up and reminded him as to coming this measure because over the what happened to the promise in years I have been here before we have the previous year's Presidential Ad- been fighting. I gained my political dress that MISA would be repealed. career under the preventive deten- The President said that something tion in early 1930s. I went TO jail as would be done. Ultimately, we got, a student, matriculate, and I came out as you know, the Criminal Procedure as a graduate from the jail. So, I (Amendment) Bill. Before we got went to jail under preveMtive de- this, an attempt was made to bring tention; those were the days of the that in. Mr. Piloo Mody is quits right British. Later on also, under the when he said that it should have gone Congress rule, in the beginning I suf- much earlier. In this regard, I must fered under the Preventive Detention thank Mr. Advani who repealed that Act. as it was then called for before abnoxious Bill—the Prevention of that other Acts were there. Well for Publication of Objectionable Matter three years I had eluded" arrest. In Act—and also restored the immunity fact, Sir, I heard the news of my of Parliamentary proceedings. The election to the Rajya Sabha in 1952 Feroze Gandhi Act was assassinated in ward number 7 of the Dum Dum by a person very dear to Feroze Central Jail, a victim of the Preven- Gandhi and revived by a Jana Sangh tive Detention Act. Straight from that leader. Since ig the irony. cell I walked into this House and SHRI PILOO MODY: Thit makes since then I have been here. you a member of the family. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: And the SHRI PILOO MODY: You mean, a other Act which Jawaharlal Nehru prisoner of this House. abolished—the Prevention of Publica- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Well, I tion of Objectionable matter Act— have been, you may say, under per- in 1956 in this House (I partici- petual detention of this House. Sir, pated in that debate) was revived by therefore, you can well imagine how Jawaharlal Nehru's daughter and re- happy I would be. pealed again by a Jana Sangh leader. I shall give you some facts in wel- Such things happen. coming this measure. Much of the I should like to tell you that when things Mr. Piloo Mody has said and I spoke o'n this subject in May/August I am in agreement with him. It is 1952, it was not my privilege and for- very heartening to hear such things tune to have any of you present in from such a massive person as Mr. this House. Today you are new faces, Piloo Mody and certainly I appreciate good faces, and I entertain good hopes from many of y0u. New, Sir, after what he has said. But the way the BiM was 'moved, was the most life- so many years we are repealing the less—the speech made fro mthis side. Maintenance of Internal Security Act, itg predecessor being the Preventive Mr. Dhanik Lal Mandal wanted to Detention Act. In that form it was perpetuate it. Now because of there. 3 P.M. you, because of us, because of I should like here to point out many on this sid° and in one tw things about th history 1 or 0 e the public the Crj.nina . Procedure of it. The Preventive Detention Act Code (Amendment) Bill has not has a very dark history of which this been gone through, and MISA is is the Droget-""'' whl-h we ar° repeal- going. But an attempt was made ing today. There was a case pendin" t0 br'.ig it in. But before in Calcutta Hgh Court on a writ peti- MISA is gone, Mr. Charan Si^gh is tion by a 'number of Communist dete- gone. That is the irony of it. Mr. nus. That was in the beginning of 253 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 254 Bill, 1978 lts 1950. At that time, there was no two years 0f passage in 1950. It Preventive Detention Act, or for that was met with strong opposition at matter any Central law on detention. that time from the entire opposition. There was the West Bengal Security And there, along with us, we had—I Act against which we agitated, under must take that name—Dr. Shyama which many of us— not me personally Prasada Mookherjee wh0 along with but my colleagues—were detained. us tought against the Preventive Perhaps Mr. Jyoti Basu was also one Dentention Act. There was Prof. of them. Many of our other comrades Meghnad Saha. Many others were were detained. Then came the Consti- there whose names I need not take, tution into force on the 26th January, great figures in the Indian Parliament. 1950. When the Constitution came into We were junior people. I know how force, all those detention laws passed he seat together to resist tooth and nail by the States were in danger 0f be- the renewal of that measure. The ing struck down as ultra vires of the entire Opposition rose. At that time Constitution. In the Calcutta case, it the Government did not listen. But was almost certain that it would be Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru did one thing. struck down and all the 300 and odd He made certain modifications to tha detenus would be released. In that Preventive Detention Act such as situation, in the month of February, Advisory Board and many other when the judgement was about to be things, liberalised as they called it. delivered, I was then an underground, The Act was put through. Mr. Katju! hunted by the police, wanted under was then the Home Minister in his preventive detention law, and what place sitting over there. He was pilot- happened was that in the provisional ing this Bill with gust, renewal of Parliament Sardar Patel came rushing the Preventive Detention Act /or one day and said: "Pass this Bill to- security, for independence, to main- day." "What Bill? People will not tain progress and t° protect our infant know. He said: "I have passed a state from the Communists, people 6leepless night an dl have brought a with daggers and bombs in their Bill called the Preventive Detention hands. They had to be put in prison. Bill, 1950. You have to pass it today; Mr. Katju one day asked me: "Do otherwise the blessed Communist de- you know, Mr Bhupesh Gupta, how tenus will be released all over the to spell democracy?'' I got up, Sir,, country—and certainly in West and said, "Yes, I do." Bengal". The Bill was introduced. SHRI PILOO MODY: C-O-M-M... The same day it was passed. Al] the rules were waived to get the Preven- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Yen, I tive Detention Bill through in one said, "K-A-T-J-U". He was taken aback. That is democracy. Mr. single day by the great sarder Patel. That is how the Bill was passed. Katju was sitting there. According t0 this new definition democracy must Then, Sir, though they had finished be Katju. The battle was fought out the Communist Party, with the bless- and we got the liberalised Act. That ings of our people we appeared in is how it continued. That is the the two Houses of Parliament as the story. major Opposition party and I occu- Here I will give you a little arith- pied those benches where Shri metical fact. Since independence we Kamlapati Tripathi sits. I came from have always been under the Preven- the Dum Dum Jail to this position. tive Detention law. But we have had Mr. Gopalan came to the other House under the Central law Preventive to the similar position. That was a Detention for 324 months, not count- slap in the face of the Congress rule ing the 16 months when there was at that time. no Central Preventive Detention Law. So the Act was passed. It was a We joined them, some of thetn temporary measure and every iwo sitting there. years it needed to be renewed. In Mrs. Indira Gandhi was running a 1952 they brought it for renewal, after minority government in 1969 after 255 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 256 Bill, 1978 [Shri Bhupesh Gupta] which is now called the Maintenance the split, her 'number having of Internal Security Act, which was come down to 223 in the Lok even harsher. The Preventive Deten- Sabha in a House of 523. One day a tion Act was temporary but the meeting of the Opposition leaders Maintenance of Internal Security was called in December. An agenda Act was made permanent. Its pro- was shown. One item for the next visions are harsher than the provi- year was "Renewal of Preventive sions of any Act, even the British Detention". Some of them will re- Act. .So, that was a massive betrayal member it. We told Mrs. Gandhi of the election pledge, that was an that it would not be passed. Those act of ingratitude towards the Oppo- days are over. And if she attempted sition and people who were support- to pass it she would bear in mind ing her politically in many matters. the implications of it. It would be Then, in the June session of the Lok defeated in the Lok Sabha. And Sabha it was passed. The Ordinance when a major Bill is defeated in the was brought there it was passed with Lok Sabha the Government falls. We a brute majority. That is how it hap- came out very sharply that if Indira pened. Now we are doing away with Gandhi tried to pass this Preventive it. Detention law, the Government must The only thing I would like to say go. Then, Sir, at the next meeting, for the benefit of Mr. Piloo Mody is, in the agenda we found that that in all these 324 months that the Pre- item was taken out. ventive Detention Act or the Main- SHRI PILOO MODY: It was intro- tenance of Internal Security Act had duced. been in operation, our friends lifte SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: It was Mr. Piloo Mody, our rightist friends, not rem wed. It lapsed on the 31st had been under the cloud of it only for 19 months during the Emergency. of December, 1969. They introduced many things that way. Mr. Chavan introduced the Criminal Procedure SHRI PILOO MODY: Because we Code Bill but he took it back. (.In- were well behaved. terruptions) We could not have done SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Now it if we were not united. All of us you were well behaved except for took away the Bill. It was for six- those 19 -months. As far as the Pre- teen months only that there was no ventive Detention Act or the Main- Preventive Detention Act. Therefore, tenance of Internal Security Act is if you count this month also, for 324 concerned, we were also in the danger months the country has been under zone. Beginning 1950 till today, the Preventive Detention Act or the people have been arrested under the Maintenance of Internal Security Act, Preventive Detention Act and tlie that is to say, under a law of Pre- Communist Party of India to which ventive Detention. Let Us remember, I belong will produce the largest for 324 months we had been under number of ex-detenus. When Mr. the Preventive Detention law. Vallabhbhai Patel was moving this SHRI PILOO MODY: First time it thing on that day, he revealed that has been voluntarily given up. they had ten thousand people in pri- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; No. How son—communist sympathisers and hag this voluntary thing come? That supporters. And Mr. Advani, for you are taking it away is good. That your benofit... (Interruptions) I have s;aid before also. So, for six- SHRI PILOO MODY: Which paper teen months only it was not there— are you quoting? the whole of 1970 and P^rt of 1971. But. immediately after she won the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am election, she had an Ordinance pro- quoting the Government; I am giving mulgated without talking to anybody, Government figures. According to 257 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 258 Bill. 1978 the official figures published by the SHRI PILOO MODY: Never in the Government of India during the first New Age. three years of independence, between August, 1947 and August 1, 1950, the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: The New Age does not have that much space. police/armed forces opened fire on popular demonstrations no less than We have no intention of bringing out 1982 times, killed 3,748 persons and any special edition to cover Piloo injured and wounded nearly 10,000, Mody's geographical area in our jailed 50,0000 and shot down 82 pri- paper. It is not possible. But they soners inside the jails. Most of them do it. Now here I say that the Pre- were communists. ventive Detention Act was born with malice against the Communists and SHRI PILOO MODY: Impossible. the Left movement for attacking Where from did you get so many them, for harassing them, for prose- Communists? cuting them. Tens of thousands of the Communists and other Leftists SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; Commu- have passed through the jails. I can- nists were there. Everybody was a not remember any Communist leader Communist then. Sir, in this connec- of long standing who has not been a tion, I invite your attention to what victim of the Preventive Detention the editor of the New Statesman Act. Many of them have been dying And The Nation noted in the issue of in prisons under the Preventive De- September 10, 1949. Because you tention Act, shot down. have got foreign papers, I also quote. SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD SHRI PILOO MODY: You are (Keraia); You had put many people quoting from the New Age. behind the bars. (Interruptions) SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; Not the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: When New Age. "In India, I am told on we formed the first Cabinet in Keraia excellent authority, there are at least in 1957 and then in 1959, we refused one Iakh and perhaps as many as two to use. the Preventive Detention Act> lakh Communists and others detain- although there was a violent move- ed. Even if the lower figure is cor- ment engineered by the Congress rect, it means that the national Gov- leadership, Shrimati Indira Gandhi ernment of India has more people being at the head of the Congress at detained without trial than the Bri- that time as its President. Dr. tish ever had at any single time". Radhakrishnan here in that chamber The jute press did not take notice of congratulated me by saying: "You it because in those days we rugged are doing well by not using the Pre- people, we the labourers' sons and ventive Detention Act even in spite other people coming from the down- of that movement.'' And that was a trodden classes were imprisoned. violent movement. Now when I say this thing I only point out that the SHRI PILOO MODY: Led by the Preventive Detention Act was con- elite. ceived with a view to suppressing SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: These the progressive Left movement, tlie people were in jails in tens of thou- working class movement, the peasant sands, but the bourgeois press, the movement, the employers'/employees' monopoly press, the jute press did movement and the teachers'/students' not take note of it. Foreign papers- movement, and so on. That is the some of the better elements—took history. It is only during the 19 note of it. Nowadays, of course, if months of the emergency, by an error one Piloo Mody goes to jail, his of judgment—may be on both sides— photograph appears—and you can that our friends camft into the pic- understand that his photograph al- ture. But they came out. And they ways creates a serious problem for came out not to occupy the Opposi- the newspapers; even so it appears. tion Benches. Jawaharlal Nehru got 259 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 260 Rill '1Q7R

[Shri Bhupesh Gupta] I am questioning the Preventive us the leading Opposition seals; Indira Detention Act. That was the greatest Gandhi went further by keeping folly. The imposition of the Emer- them in detention and brought them gency was wrong. When_the Emer- t0 the Treasury Benches. That was gency came, you know how the MISA Indira Gandhi's improvement. We was misused. I know, Mr. Piloo came on those Benches, far away Mody, when you were in the prison from these Benches. But Madam you were provided with all the Gandhi by her excesses and other amenities: we never had them. He things created such a situation that was looked after by Shrimati Indira the Congress was wiped out in the Gandhi very well, and he can have Lok Sabha electeion a number no complaint. Let him complain. of States. My Friend, Shri Advani, parted company with me to SHRI PILOO MODY: I have com- occupy the place which Govind plimented. I have not complained. Ballabh Pant and Katju were occu- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: No, you pying. It is wonderful. cannot. Sir, the greatest gain of the Emer- SHRI PILOO MODY; Why are you gency for them has been their coming so u'ncharitable? to power. This is the biggest gain of the Emergency for you. It may SHRI ARVIND GANESH KUL- be the greatest loss to the country. KARNI (Maharashtra): What about This is the history of the Preventive the evening equipment? Detention Act. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; All THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR AND equipments he got, solid or liquid. PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (DR. He got everything. RAM KRIPAL SINHA): That is why SHRI B. SATYANARAYAN you supported it. REDDY (Andhra Pradesh): No faci- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Yes, we lities were given during the Emer- supported it. We committed a great gency. All the prisoners were put in error, and we admitted it publicly. a cell. They have been tortured. We do commit mistakes sometimes. Many prisoners died in the prisons. SHRI PILOO MODY: You share That is a fact. the credit to Mrs. Gandhi for having SHRT PILOO MODY: A point of benefited us. order. I insist that in the interest SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA f We were of truth he should withdraw the not a party to the misuse of the word, 'liquid.' Emergency. We were supporting the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, I Emergency because we thought that will be willing to withdraw it. In you were giving call to the Armed the interest of truth, I do not know Forces. Mr. Jaya Prakash Narayan how Piloo Mody could live there did it. without liquid. SHRI PILOO MODY; You are say- SHRI B. SATYANARAYAN ing exactly what she did. It is a lie. REDDY: I was a prisoner. I know SHRI BHUFESH GUPTA: It was very well, no facility was given. an error. You should have been dealt SHRI PILOO MODY; I do not ex- with politically and not put in pre- pect a leader of your stature to say ventive detention or the Emergency like this. You know what you said. proclaimed. Well, sometimes we You withdraw it. have been put in preventive deten- tion. Political leaders do come under SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, I preventive detention. meant only liquid. I am also a little 261 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 262 Bill, 1978 not of that type. I deliberately used The Janata Government should have; the word, 'liquid' becaust if I had done it 15 months ago. not used the word liquid, you, Mr. SHRI PILOO MODY; You cannot Piloo Mody, you would have perhaps, say that. more relevantly objected to it. SHRl BHUPESH GUPTA: They SHRI PILOO MODY: I am object- have done it; I entirely agree. But ing in any case. they wanted to keep it. Even now SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Liquid Mr. Rajnarain talks about arresting, of this variety or that variety what- somebody under MISA. MISA he ever it is, your liquidity is unques- likes. And Mr. Charan Singh wanted tionable. So, Sir, it happened. I said this kind of thing to remain by way it because even during the Emergency of an amendment to the Code of period, their Ministry had said that Criminal Procedure, despite their 29,000 people were arrested under the assurance during the elections and in MISA. Out of them 10,000 were the Presidential Address. Due to those, what they called, who had the pressure of the public, the pres- had political affiliations, and the rest sure of political parties, including were the anti-social elements> the members of the Janata Party, we are smugglers and so on. The political now in a position t0 repeal it. I prisoners were 10,000. I can tell you congratulate you all; I congratulate that at one point of time when a ourselves; I congratulate parlia- habeus corpus case was going on in ment above all, I congratulate our the Calcutta High Court, we had fine robust democratic tradition and 10,000 people in the prisons of India. our great people. But for this solid public opinion, solidly expressed, as And now I have read out to you. reflected on both sides of the House, Now I do not want to go into this perhaps MISA would not have gone. comparison because comparison is no It would have found shelter in some comparison in the sense that we want other law. Therefore, Piloo Mody can MISA to go. Sir, at that time when rest assured that I am indeed very we prevented Mrs. Gandhi from doing very happy today that it is going. The so, Frank Moraes, Editor of Indian only thing that I would like to say in Express, wrote a centre-page editorial the end is this. Sir, in fact, my Bill article in which he paid a tribute to is pending. Tomorrow you will see a the CPI without meaning it; he said Bill standing in my name for the that what the Naxalites could not do, repeal of MISA. by putting out one threat to SHRI PILOO MODY: Are you Mrs. Indira Gandhi that she might moving an amendment? lose her seat, we got done. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; Bhupesh He wanted to convey how Mrs. Gupta does not go by amendment. Indira Gandhi had become depen- He does not go by amendment. He dent on the Communists. Nothing of goese on his own. But you would be.' the kind. But it is a fact that the amended. Communist Party took a leading role Sir, now my Bill will not be neces- along with the others in seeing that sary. The Bill would be there in the the P.D. Act was not renewed. It List of Business already circulated lapsed only for 16 months. The for tomorrow. That was introduced moment she got the mandatae, back last year. Tomorrow it will come up. came the P.D. Act in the form of the But the I will withdraw it because Maintenance of Internal Security Act, n you are passing it today. I gave the a permanent Act. historical fact because some of you Now, Sir, we are repealing this Act. should know—all of you know, but I Naturally we are very very happy. wanted to remind some of you—that 263 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 264 Bill, 1978 [Shri Bhupesh Gupta] The Acts passed by the British Gov- it has a history of its own. ernment were revived by the Gov- ernment of West Bengal under Ihe The Congress regime never meant Profulla Ghosh Ministry. Dr. Ghosh it for dealing with the rightists or re- adopted the Special Powers Ordinance of the British, in August 1947 he wan- actionaries, as they call it. The Cong- ass ress regime meant the Preventive ted t° P it in the name of West Detention Act to deal with the Com- Bengal Security Act. There was a munists and leftists. For more than protest against it led by the CPI. In 27 years they used it almost exclu- that protest Sarat Bose joined with sively against us. Our Chairman, us; N. C. Chatterjee (joined with us. Mr. Dange, was put in detention in And we fought. The result was one connection with the Samyukta Maha- Sisir Mandal had to die in police fir- rashtra Movement. Many of us were ing which was indulged i'n order to there. Such is its history. The So- suppress this movement, and he cialists were there; many others became a martyr ... were there. As tragedy would have SHRI PILOO MODY: That is it, even Mr. Shyama Prasad Mukher- enough. jee had to be detained and he became a victim of the law which was passed SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; You are when hei Sir, was a Minister. enough; you are more than enough. Sir, he would not like the past history. THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- I am only narrating to past history TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI but he would not like it. Mr. Piloo LAL K. ADVANI): N h was not 0) e Mody does not like it. There is the Minister. nothing for him. Mr. Piloo Mody, you d0 not know these things; I SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; In later wanted to tell you a bit. It is for you years. Such things happened. Such I am saying this, n0t for Mr. Advani is the dark history 0f the Preventive so much. You should know this. You Detention Act. Before it we had do not know the past history. The Regulation 3 of 1818 which provided Preventive Detention Act had been for preventive detention. The Cong- fought at every stage. People had ress opposed it. Then when the become martyrs. They gave their Congress came to power . . . lives in order to get rid of what you are getting rid today for the second time. I hope it will not SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: Dr. return again. I hope you will Shyama Prasad Mukherjee's was the see to it. Then there are many other most vehement opposition to the Bill. things going on. The Essential Services Act is being misused by the SHRl BHUPESH GUPTA; I have Government for dealing with the stu- paid him a tribute. Even your mem- dents and teachers. Teachers are 'bers did not remember him. I do being arrested under that. In the remember Mr. Shayama Prasad name of the Essential Services Mukherjee, although we differed on Act many other things are being done many other things. After Regulation in order to rope in political workers. J3 of 1818 came the Defence of India That should not be done. We are re- Act at the outbreak of the First pealing this not to indulge in repres- "World War. Then came the Rowlatt sion by other means, by other laws, Act. Then came the Bengal. Ordi- by misusing other laws that exist nance of 1930 of which I was a vic- today. That is what I want. Please tim. Then came the Defence of keep that in mind. India Act and Defence of India Rules. Then came the Public Security Act. We have read the Shah Commis- 265 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) . 266 Bill, 1978 sion Report. I am a little surprised I would welcome Indira Congress peo- the Shah Commission only men- ple to get up and say they are Sorry tions about the Textile officers or for the Emergency. It wiH be a good- Bhimsen Sachar. Good, they -men- thing for them. Shrimati Indira tioned them or some other people. Gandhi will have done some justice to The Shah Commission mentioned herself if she had publicly declared how MISA was being misused in that she was sorry for the proclama- their ease, but they never men- tion of Emergency and that it shall tioned the workers who had been the not come for thousands and thousands victims of MISA5 employees who had of years as she said. But, Sir, if on been the victims of MISA, Agricultu- the one hand you say that emergency ral workers who had been the vis- shall not come for thousands of years tims of MISA. The Shah Commission and at the same time you justify the completely ignored them. Blood is proclamation of the emergency, no- thicker than water—class blood. Yet, body will take you seriously. I do not the Shah Commission is worried about know whether we shall live to see that what happened to the men at the top. day. Those at the bottom, who suffered in I think the national will, national the villages in the factories, in the verdict national commonsense and towns, and so on, they did not figure patriotism demand that, whatever may as victims of MISA during the be our in dividual role or part's role, Emergency to attract the Shah all should join togethe and a united Commission's sympathy. That is r nation should declare that the procla- my complaint against the Shah mation o femergency was unjustified Commission. and wrong. That should be done. That During Emergency, of course every- should be the sign of leadership. The thing was' given a go-bye. All the sign of leadership is not in justifying rights were taken away including the a wrong step. Even the greatest right of habeas-corpus. It was shame leaders have committed grave blun- the way the right of habeas-Corpus ders. Mahatma Gandhi said he had was taken away in order to make committed Himalayan blunders. How preventive detention under MISA many of you, living and dead, would absolutely free from any ques- not consider hirn as a great leader? If tioning in the highest court of he could admit his -mistakes in this Jaw in any manner. It was a manner by saying that he had com- shame and we raised it in Parliament. mitted Himalayan blunders, I do not You know it, even if the people were see any rhyme or reason why "the shot dead in the streets, there was former Prime Minister and others no questioning. You will remember, should go on telling the people that we protested against that. But this emergency was justified. WBy should happened. It was a dark chapter in they not proclaim to their conscience, our history. Let us, therefore, bury to the world and to 0ur people that it. it was a wrong sfep and they are sorry for it and in future'such a step would But then, don't try to bury MISA not be taken? in order only to use some other re- SHRI PILOO MODY: That will pressive laws in your arsenal make them human. against the working people, against the Harijans, against the agricultural SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I think against the labourers, against the em- they are human. I would not say that ployees, against the teachers and stu- they are not human. I think they dents, which is what is happening to- are human. I would not make that day. And I do want an assurance that uncharitable remark that they are not such a law shall never come on the human. But they are sticking to the Statute Book. My friends of the Cong- wrong position. That is the tragedy of ress Party—now they are in the Oppo- it. And you have been the biggest beneficiary of it. I told Mr. Charan sition—we all learn from experience,

267 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeat) 268 Bill, 1978

[Shri Bhupesh Gupta] he has misunderstood me, I will thank Singh one day: "Mr. Charan Singh, him. Sir, it is his privilege as the you should feel beholden to the Con- Minister and it has been his privilege gress Party because they have brought to bring forward this repealing law you here" Nothing else would have which was not the privilege of the brought them here. Ask Mr. Advani. other Ministers who have gone before Let him put his hands on his hears him. I think he is very fortunate and and tell us il he would have been I think it is very important for him able to occupy this seat from 1977, but and I wish him well insofar as this is for the monumental folly of Shrimati concerned. I do hope that we all Indira Gandhi and the crimes and ex- shall live in the spirit in which we cesses committed during the emer- welcome this measure. I do hope that gency. He will admit it. As far a3 repression will go out of the country. Mr. Piloo Mody is concerned, I do not The working class people must have know. (Time bell rings) their full right to carry on their de- You have rung the bell. I am very mocratic struggle and no devices or contrivances, I hope, would be created happy today. All other members are here. But I am the" only o*ne_to sur- to fetter them in any manner. vive. 1 have been the boy on the bur- Once again, Sir, I express my hap- ning deck somehow or the other. To- piness, before I sit down, that this day I join with you'Th Unifying one of law, this black law, this lawless law, the hated Actg of our country which is now about to be finally given its has been a 'disgrace to the Statute burial and I hope that this is final in Book, which has been a blot on our this House* with the participation of law. It has been a lawless law which all Member. I do thank our had been denounced by Gandhiji and frineds of the Janata Party. They have Jawahar Lal Nehru before indepen- also played a part, they have also dence and which has been condemned played their part in seeing that the by all right thinking men in our coun- MISA is repealed. I do not take try since then. It is a matter of pri- credit for myself and we do not take vilege a"nd pleasure today in this credit for ourselves only. Thank you, House—I need not say it is a red letter Sir. day because Mr. Piloo Mody will run MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, away since the word 'red' is there... Mr. Venka. SHRI PILOO MODY: Quite right. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; I will [The Vice-Chairman (Shri Shyam consider this a memorable day that Lal Yadav) in the Chair] > in this very House I am in a privileged **SHRI V. VENKA (Tamil Nadu): position, having fought against this Mr. Vice-Chairman, the MISA was law for 26 years under the Congress, against all democratic principles. The to join with my friends of the ruling present ruling party too had suffered party on the basis of a Bill brought under this MISA. We too, in by them to repeal the most hated, ob- South India, had suffered-a lot during noxious and despicable law which the days of emergency. The Janata should not have found any place in Party made it a point to repeal the the Statute Book. I hope my friends, MISA in their Election Manifesto; s0 long as they are in power, wiH live but they kept mum during past 18 upto it, and see that this is an end to months—I would like to know the all the repressive measures and no- clause of delay in repeating, along body will bring preventive detention with the other Members 0f this laws back under any pretence what- House. Using the MISA against poli- soever. tical leaders cannot, under any cir- My friend, the Minister, is sitting cumstances, be excused. here. I do not know how far he has Under the MISA, there were about been able to understand me. Even if 10,000 political prisoners out of

"-English transition of the speech delivered in Tamil, 269 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) . 270 Bill, 1978 29,000 arrested. Others were, it was While I was attending a meeting in informed, anti-social elements. the Legislators' hostels in the days of I have to mention that many people emergency, I was dragged and beaten are complaining now that the current severly by the hooligans engaged by position during the 18 months after the other party. I had noted the car Janata Party took over, is worse than number of the hooligans and infomed emergency period though MISA was the police but it is regretted, no action not used. was taken by the Police. They have not arrested any anti-social element I am the man brought up by the under MISA. We, who were poli- Great Tamil Leader Hon'ble Annadu- tically against them were arrested rai who graced this House from 1962 under MISA. They had tried to kill to 1967., He was a true democrat and me after the meeting was over. I instilled in us spirit of democracy. was stabbed here, and there at However in the name of Democracy, eight places on my body. I became there are some anti-social elements unconscious and was" admitted into who lead India in a destructive way. the hospital. Anyhow, I am quite To curb their activities we will have happy that I have recovered from to find out some ways now itself. those physical injuries and I am able Today, the Janata Party placed this to address you today.'This T am men- Bill for repeal, of course, with the tioning to show how MISA was mis- support of public, but we have to used against the political leaders by think of alternative measures. an unscrupulous Government. It was a great blunder in Indian I would like to bring this to notice democracy using primarily an econo- of Janata Party that ihe cost of living mic weapon for political purpose and index has gone up by 30 per cent dur- I can give you many instances. I would ing the period of 18 months. It is like that our hon. Minister assures the said that some anti-social elements House that no political leader would which have entered into Janata Party be arrested under any emergency in are responsible for the price rise. Let future. Any Act will be appreciated us not forget. The MISA was used only when the ruling party leaders against anti-social elements also. With use it for the good of society and not MISA gone, I do not know, as to how for strengthening their own power. I the Government is going to curb the am quite happy that the present rul- activities of anti-social elements in ing party at the Centre did not use future. The need is there for an MISA to~ arrest any political leaders effective curb against anti-social ele- of the opposition parties during the ments, which should not however be 19 months of their rule. misused against political opponents. As the Hon'ble Member Shri Now, we will have to find out how Bhupesh Gupta has just remarked, the to curb the activities of black-marke- Ruling Party seems to be interested in teers, smugglers and anti-social ele- curbing the activities of Political ments without MISA. I have already Leaders in opposition, using one or told you how the then ruling party other law. Let me quote one instance. used MISA particularly against the In February, 1972, the then ruling political leaders and they put them in party in Tamil Nadu the D.M.K, had jail. At the same time, in spite of done a number of follies, even though the unlimited powers under MISA, it was supposed to follow the ideals of the then ruling party did not curb our great leader, Mr. Annadurai. They the activities of smugglers, black- had tried to misuse their powers marketeers and anti-social elements. against political opponents. I protest- What is vital is that black-marketing, ed and left that Party. smuggling and other anti-social offen- 271 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 272 Bill, 1978

[Shri V. Venka] and this repealing Bill was brought ces should be eradicated with the help forth. Therefore, the Janata Party of any weapon lest they could destroy and the Government do not get the society. If the present Government congratulations which I have given also does not curb the activities of to the Congress Party. The Govern- smugglers, black-marketeers and anti- ment has not very conscientiously or social elements, then the purpose of willingly brought forth this measure. repealing the Act will not be served. Many people, when they come to Therefore, I would lik the Minister to power forget what assurances they find out ways and means to curb the had given to the people. The posi- activities of anti-social elements tion which they occupy makes them without MISA. During the last 18 forget what they told the people and months of Janata rule, the smugglers, what assurances they gave to them. black-marketeers and anti-social ele- Or, else, the Minister might tell us ments have been increasingly active. what was the reason for the delay Thefts in the railways have increased in bringing forth this repealing mea- throughout India. Now it becomes our sure. bounden duty to curb their activities Sir, if at all there is any party even without MISA. I hope that the which has suffered under the Main- Janata Government would take the tenance of Internal Security Act and necessary measures to -find out ways the misrule of Shrimati Indira and means to curb the activities of Gandhi's Government, after extend- smugglers and black-marketeers. ing the life of Parliament for two Thank you. yeads, it is the D.M.K, and nothing SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN (Tamil but the D.M.K. It is that party Nadu); Sir, I have great pleasure in which has suffered, its rank and file welcoming this Bill. At the same time, and its leaders. About 25,000 people I cannot congratulate the Janata Party were arrested when the President's and the Government as much as I Rule was promulgated in Tamil would congratulate the Congress Party Nadu though my Party is considered which is in the opposition today. It is only to be a State Party. I think very nobel of them that those people from no other party in India, even at who were responsible for this Act, all-India level such a large number have come forward completely, shall of people were arrested. Towards I say with your permission, in such a the end there were about 555 people nobei manner that they welcome this in custody under the Maintenance of Repeal of Maintenance of Internal Internal Security Act. Security Act. All of you would feel sorry to Therefore, I congratulate the Cong- know that one of the Members of ress Members here for havteig wel- Parliament, when he was a sitting comed the repeal of this Act. Why Member of Parliament Mr. Chitti I do not congratulate as much the Babu, would not have died if he had Janata friends as I do the Congress been released in time and the Ismail friends is because they waited for Commission has also said so in its one and a half years to bring forth report. That is the report of the the repealing measures. What was Ismail Commission. Mr. Chitti Babu the mandate of the people? Before died because of his arrest. When this bringing forward this Bill they were matter was brought to the notice of verv seriously thinking cf bringing Home Minister, Shri Brahamananda forth some sort of a measure on the Reddi, he said, Mr. Chitti Babu is Tines of the Preventive Detention safe, he has got this disease and that Act,, but people's representatives, disease. But they were not prepared like Mr. Jethmalani, rose to the to release him. The Ismail Commis- occasion and fought it out and then sion which was appointed to go into only that measure was withdrawn the beating of prisoners in India—a 273 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) . 274 Bill, 1978 , large number of prisoners were back in this House as to what all beaten during the emergency and atrocities were committed in those when the President's rule was pro- days, bringing a bad name to the mulgated—has said that Mr. Chitti Indira Gandhi Government. These Babu was one of the vicitims and that were brought to the notice of the is how he died. He is the only par- Janata Government. But they never liamentarian, the only Member of cared. That is why, there is a feeling Parliament, who died during the in the South that the Janata Party emergency. The provisional Govern- is a regional party, that it is there ment should take the entire responsi- only in the North and that it does not belong to the South. This is because bility for the death of Mr. Chitti they have not undone what all the Babu. previous Government did in the name of Emergency and all that. Now, 550 Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I do not people have been released. But many believe in omen and all that, this of them are not getting any pension. rashi and jhatak Business, because I Take even Chitti Babu's case. His am a rationalist. But still he died family is not getting any pension. one year prior to the general elections Actually, his people are in the streets that were ordered by Mrs. Indira today. They have already submitted Gandhi. What was the result? Before a petition. Since there is another the elections were held, Mr. Chitti Government, T do not know whether Babu died as a Member of Parliament they have got to recommend it But and, after the elections, Mrs. Indira I would request the Janata Govern- Gandhi was not allowed to enter Par- ment to take note of it and do some- liament. I am not very happy about thing. it. But see Nature's deci- 4.m sion. A Member of Parlia- ment dies in prison because of Sir, why do Tsay the Janata Party an Act and the leader of the nation is a regional party? You know how is not allowed to come into Parlia- the DMK Government was dismissed. ment when elections are held. That Mr. Morarji Desai, Mr. Advani and is the punishment. But Sir, the Mr. Chandra Shekhar came to Tamil family of Mr. Chitti Babu has not Nadu at the time of the last elections been cared for by the Janata Govern- and said that the dismissal of the ment. They say that they are repeal- DMK Government was a politically ing the Maintenance of Internal motivated one. They also said that Security Act and they say that they the appointment of the Sarkaria Com- have done so many things. But Sir, mission, to justify the dismissal, was as far as the South is concerned, none als0 politically motivated. This was of the misdeeds of the previous Gov- said by no less a person than the ernment during the implementation leader of the Janata Party. But as of this Act and during the President's soon as they came to power, what Rule have been undone. Nothing has have they done? I would say ths been done with regard to my party. appointment of the Sarkaria Commis- They are not interested in doing it. sion itself is an emergency excess. It Now, in Tamil Nadu, a party which is an emergency excess because the supported the Emergency and which Kerala Government was being given supported Mrs. Gandhi has come to extension every six months. As a power. That party is in power today. matter of fact, we never wanted ex- But as far as the Emergency excesses tension. We never wanted Mrs. are concerned, the Central Govern- Gandhi, the then Prime Minister of ment could have intervened and ask- our country, to join hands with us. ed the State Government to undo We only wanted her to hold elections, what all were done during the Em- not only to Parliament, but to the ergency and during the President's Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly as Rule. I mentioned this even a year well, in the year 1976. DMK was the 275 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 276 Bill, 1978 [Shri G. Lakshma'nan] This is how the witnesses were pre- only party which made that demand. pared. We have already said this Had Mrs. Gandhi conceded the de- that all the witnesses should be mand of the DMK and Dr. Kalaignar examined, but Justice Sarkaria said, Karunanidhi, so many things would no. Had there been Fundamental not have happened. The death of Mr. Rights available for us, we would Chitti Babu would not have happened. have gone to the High Court as in So many other havocs would not the case of the Rajagopala Iyengar have happened. We would not have Commission Bakshi Ghulam Moham- seen the formation of the Janata mad went to the High Court and got Party itself. But she never heeded. the ruling. But we were not allowed She never cared. She dismissed our to go to the High Court. We wanted Government, though there were still that all the three hundred witnesses 30 days. To justify it, she appointed should be examined, but Justice Sar- the Sarkaria Commission. I have al- karia said, no. Therefore, We were ready said that this Sarkaria Com- not given that opportunity of going mission was a Sarkar Commission. before the court. So, we told the After the appointment of the Sar- Janata Party that we were not afraid karia Commission, we Tcnow of this Commission. We will definite- what all took place. And, Sir, I ly politically face it. Therefore, this would like to place before the Janata Commission itself is an emergency Government and before you that this excess. Having! dismis-ed the Gov- is the only Commission which was ernment they wanted to justify the appointed when there was internal dismissal. The memorandum was emergency in existence in this coun- presented by the present Chief Min- try. There were about 26 or 27 Com- ister, the then treasurer of my party, missions appointed, but no Commis- Mr. M. G. Ramachandran, in the sion was appointed when internal year 1972. Mr. Pranab Mukherjee emergency was In existence. The knows everything. That is why he is Sarkaria Commission is the only laughing. And it was kept in cold Commission and it was appointed at storage till 1976. We have given our that time so that they would not replies and we have given everything. have any right to go to the court. Within three days out of 54 allega- tions 27 were only selected suddenly Sir, 300 witnesses were prepared. and they were sent to the Sarkaria The chairman of the CBI, under Commission which was appointed whose chairmanship all this was three days after the dismissal of tfie done, prepared three hundred wit- Government. Therefore if the Janata nesses. Now that man has been ar- Government is sincere to the language rested and action is being taken which they spoke just before elec- against him. Under his leadership tions, it must treat the Sarkaria as an 300 witnesses were prepared. And excess of emergency and withdraw you know how the witnesses were col- that Commission. Now what js lected? They wiH go and get hold of happening? If a Commission is ap- Mr. Pranab Mukherjee. pointed against Mr. Karunanidhi, my leader, immediately a report comes. SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE Very loyally, very patently, our res- (West Bengal): Say somebody else. pected Prime Minister Morarji Desai sends it to Shri Ramachandran, about SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: Just which he has said that is a politically for name sake. All right, somebody motivated one before election—and else, Shri Brij Lal Verma. They will asks him to take further action. But tell him: If you do not like all these when an allegation is made by no less things, there is the Maintenance of a person than the Home Minister of Internal Security Act. Nobody can this country against the son of the question us. You will be arrested. present Prime Minister, he says, 277 Maintenance of Internal [27 JULY 1978] Security (Repeal) 278 Bill. 197TT please withdraw that letter. What is an understanding in Maharashtra this? What is this Government's with Mr. Pawar. Does it speak well standard in public life? When there of that party? Janata Party defeat- is an allegation against Mr. Karuna- ed Congress Party because of their nidhi, though it is an emergency ex- misrule and restored democracy. The cess, the report is received and action same Janata Party joined a rebel is taken. By whom? By one who from a particular party and formed himself is the complainant, Mr. M. G. the Government and helped the Gov- Eamachandran. Mr. Ramachandran ernment. Janata Party MLAs are is the complainant. He made the al- Ministers there. How does it help? legation. Now he is the Chief Min- Can yop answer that? ister and the report has been forward- ed to Mr. Ramachandran who is the plaintiff, by Mr. Morarji Desai. The SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: plaintiff is going to take action against We can only conclude . . . the accused. He forwarded it, but in the case of his son, Mr. Morarji SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: I tell, Desai's son, he wants Mr. Charan you, politics there are no perma- Singh to withdraw the case. There- nent friends or permanent enemies. fore, in the public life there shall not And as far as we are concerned, we he two standards. Therefore I would take a neutral attitude, a central at- say, as far as the DMK is concerned, titude. With regard to any problem it may be a small party, whatever here, we take a central attitude. attacks that were unleashed by the Even on that day, I found that the previous Congress Government we contention of Mr. Morarji Desai were able to manage because our that he would not place those party is not a party that was started letters was not in order. At the same yesterday only, it has a life of 75 to time, I also did not want the stalling 80 years. It has produced a history of the proceedings of this House. So I of 75 to 80 years. It has produced was keeping quiet though I made our eminent "men. One of them was a stand clear in the meetings that were member of thig House—Mr. Anna- held. If we want to achieve some durai. 'Anna' we used to call him thing, the means We adopt should lovingly. justify the end. That is what I told our esteemed Shri Kamlapati Tripa- As far as the Janata Government thi, and he agreed. Therefore, we is concerned, I would say . . . found some solution.

SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: So your party has again come to an So as far as my party is concerned, understanding with Mrs. Indira We are not satisfied—not hecause we Gandhi's party. want to be inimical—with the way in which 'the emergency excesses have been dealt with. Sir, Ismail Commission was appointed by the SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: This is Governor, Mr. Patwari. It was not a political question. You must ask appointed by Mr. Ramachandran. It this question of Dr. Karunanidhi. has given a report. In that report, it But I would only tell you that there is said that these officers were res- are no permanent friends and perma- ponsible. Mr. Parmaguru, Commis- nent enemies in politics. sioner of Police was solely responsi- ble and he behaved in the most irres- SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: ponsible manner. If Chitti Babu had Only permanent interests. been released, he would not have SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: I would died. What action Mr. M. G. Rama- ask you, Janata Party has come to chandran has taken? Another thing 279 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal). 280 Bill, 1978 [Shri G. Lakshma'nan] should be treated as an emergency is, what all we opposed during the excess. If the Janata Government is emergency, Mr M. G. Ramachandran bold enough, let all the 57 charges be is bringing into law. There is an enquired into in a democratic country Ordinance in Tamil Nadu today. No- like ours. We do not oppose it; we do oody can go on strike in the essential not say that you must withdraw services. There is an Ordinance and them. And the 57 allegations have my party is fighting against it. Now I been there because those people who wanted to raise it during zero hour are responsible for these allegations as a Special Mention. It was not per- are in this House also. mitted by our esteemed Chairman. I SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: do not want to attribute motives to If these allegations are false, concoct- him, it was not permitted. That was to ed they must be withdrawn. condemn that Ordinance to ban strikes in the essential services. But SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: I do not that was not permitted by my esteem- want that all these allegations should ed Chairman. I did not question him. be withdrawn or the Sarkaria Com- SHRI HAMID ALrSCHAMNAD: mission report should be withdrawn. You can make a reference. I want that the Government enquire into all the 57 allegations given by SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: I did Mr. Ramachandran, and then a new not want to question his authority Commission should be appointed to and, therefore, I did not mention. enquire into them. And we will ac- But I thought that because the Janata cept whatever decision is given. We Government and the Anna-DMK Gov- have been victims of emergency ex- ernment have come to cooperate with cesses. Therefore, we do not accept each other and because he has come the report of Justice Sarkaria. You to power in Tamil Nadu—earlier he know the kind of justice we will get. was cooperating with Mrs. Indira All these things you know. Therefore, Gandhi during the Parliamentary as far as my party is concerned I elections and now he has become very may state that this Maintenance of friendly with the Janata Govern- Internal Security Act should have ment—therefore, they are not taking been withdrawn much earlier. I wel- any action. Sir, that may be the come it. I am also very thankful reason also why the Janata Govern- because the Congress friends by doing ment is not taking any action to undo so many things have made our party all the emergency excesses. There- most popular, a most powerful party fore, I would say that all the emer- to take charge of the Government gency excesses in Tamil Nadu should within one or two years, not by de- be looked into and the Ja'nata Govern- feating this Government when allega- ment must do justice to those people. tions are being made. I mus? also If Mr. George Fernandes opposed thank Mrs. Indira Gandhi and also emergency and if there was the other friends who have made our Dynamite Case against him, it was party a militant party. A new ex- immediately withdrawn because he perience we have gained because of belongs, fortunately, to the northern this attack not on the people but on part of India. I do not know whether the D.M.K, unfortunately, which Bombay is the nothern part or not. D.M.K, was responsible for putting SHRI S. W. DHABE (Maharash- in power Mrs. Indira Gandhi in years tra) : He was elected from Bihar. 1969 and 1971. SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: There- In the year 1969 you know how fore, immediately the case was with- drawn. As an emergency measure, Mr. Giri was supported by the DMK. Sarkaria Commission was appointed Had we not supported Mr. Giri on by Mrs. Indira Gandhi. I dd not want the advice of Mrs. Indira Gandhi that the case should be withdrawn. It what about the public life of Mrs. Indira Gandhi? Mr. Sanjiva Reddy 281 Maintenance of Internal [27 JULY 1978] Security (Repeal) 282 Bill. 1978 would have come out successful. Such person, a very good Prime Minister. a party was ill-treated. Such a party But he must behave. He should not •was badly treated by Mrs. Indira have come down to that level. He Gandhi and the (previous Govern- should have shown the letters him- ment. That is why they are facing self. He mentioned rules. Who made all these turmoils and troubles today. the rules? The people made the It is nature's gift to them, nature's rules. In the name of rules you want reward to them. Therefore, as far as to cheat the people. Then there is no ihey are concerned, I would say do democracy in our country. I am not not follow the same path. Even in a slave to the rules. The Prime Min- •the present letters case they are so ister should not be a slave to the much reluctant. And Tulmohan Ram's rules. What is there? Our country case was taken as an example. Why is such a vast country with different should you cite Tulmohan Ram's case cultures and civilizations. If it is a as an example? Where is the ques- foreign invasion either by China or tion of prestige of the Prime Minis- Pakistan—however much we may be opposing Hindi—we stand together ter? The prestige of the House is the prestige of the Prime Minister. like one man. What did Anna say Why should there be two prestiges? then? He said that even our party The Prime Minister should not take flag would not fly till we win that war. During the Bangladesh war we the case of Tulmohan Ram as an collected six crores of rupees ant, exmaple. This situation ought to have our Dr. Karunanidhi, the then Chief heen avoided by the ruling party and Minister of Tamil Nadu, gave that the Prime Minister Morarji Desai. amount to Mrs. Indira Gandhi. We When Anna was in the Tamil Nadu are the only State who collected six Assembly, one M.L.A. asked him that crores of rupees. We as an Indian the Government should not take it people are the most cultured because we have a hoary tradition and civil- as a prestige issue. Immediately Anna said: In a democracy there is isation which is five thousand years no separate prestige to the rulers and old. Therefore, our people are very another prestige to the people. Pres- good people. tige to the ruler is the prestige to the When I said it in Tamil Nadu that the people. Do "not separate it. Indira Gandhi was going to be de- Therefore, Mr. Morarji Desai need feated, even my own partymen not take it as his personal prestige. laughed at me. "You have become a That is why Mrs. Indira Gandhi crack." That was what they said to faced so many troubles. I am me. But how was Indira Gandhi de- not a big vnan, so aged, experi- feated, very nicely? In some other enced like Mr. Morarji Desai. During countries, some other political the first six mo'nths when he became changes are taking place. How are •the Prime Minister he was all right. they taking place? Take, for inst- .Now he is always angry. His face ance, Bangladesh. How have politi- itself is in an angry mood. That is cal changes taken place there? How, what I am observing these days. in our own country, are political changes taking place? Even on this SHRI YOGENDRA MAKWANA issue, how have we settled this issue? (Gujarat): Now he is in his usual Therefore, if in the name of the cul- mood. ture and civilisation of the people of SHRI G. LAKSHMANAN: It is this country they run this country not personal. Nowadays he is very well, my party will definitely sup- angry. He is always in a pensive port them. But, as far as the Emer- mood. I do not know whether it is gency excesses are concerned, the due to any internal trouble in the Janata Party hafc failed miserably party or whatever it is. He must They have cared only for North listen. He is a very experienced India; they have not cared for South 283 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 284 Bill, 1978

[Shri G. Lakshmanan] India. Therefore, I want to place this before the House. Thank you, Sir.

285 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) . 286 Bill, 1978

287 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 288 Bill, 1978

"I am surrounded by the corrupt people and corrupt Ministers. I am surrounded by the corrupt per- sons." SHRI KALP NATH RAI: The Prime Minister has said: "I have serious charges of cor- ruption against the former Home Minister, his wife, sons-in-law and brothers." 289 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) .290 Bill, 1978

SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: Sir, his voice is so loud that we are not able to hear the translation.

291 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 292 Bill, 1978

This Government is direction- less. This Government is a rudder- less Government. This Government has got three Prime Ministers in its Cabinet and nine Prime Ministers in waiting.

293 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (.Repeal) . 294 Bill, 1978

295 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 296 Bill, 1978

297 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 298 Bill, 1978

"What is necessary for a valid order is ""ground', not the facts,

299 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 300 Bill, 1978 which should be communicated to the detenue. Grounds are conclu- sions as to the detenu's activities drawn from the information fur- nished to the detaining authority; facts are particulars in the infor- mation supporting the grounds."

"The Shah Commission has ob- served that it was unfortunate that in a large number of cases of de- tention under the Maintenance of Internal Security Act during tbe emergencyi District Magistrate had used their authority without satis- fying themselves about the exist- ence of grounds of detention. The Commission had proved beyond any doubt that Mrs. Gandhi had imposed emergency for personal reasons and the decision was en- tirely unconstitutional."

301 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 302 Bill, 1978 from the major economic issues. They are not very sincere in doing this. They are talking of amending the Constitution and *ne 45th Amendment Act. But not a word is spoken about Article 22 of the Constitution. Arti- cle 22 of the Constitution contains a provision for detention of any per- son. I quote sub-clause (7) of Arti- cle 22: "Detenues should thank them- selves that they have come out "Parliament may by law pres- alive from prisons." cribe the circumstances under which, and the class or classes of 5 P.M. cases in which, a person may be detained for a period longer than three months."

Sir, s0 long as this Article remain/ on the Constitution and so long as power remains with the Parliament to pass preventive detention laws, it is too much for Mr. Piloo Mody to take credit that it ia a red letter day and we have made history. They are dishonest in their intentions. What they are doing or undoing here, they want to do indirectly in the States. The Detention Law was passed in Madhya Pradesh in 1977. As my friend, Mr. Kalp Nath Rai, said, in Uttar Pradesh als0 there is law on the Statute Book about detentions and essential services. I would like to tell the House that there are still in force Andhra Pradesh Detention Act, 1970, Rajasthan Preventive De- tention Act, 1970,

and many other laws in Jammu and Kashmir and other States. This Government takes much pride. An ordinance was issued in Madhya Pra- desh for detention of persons for breaking the strike of electricity workers. They wanted fo go on strike SHRI S. W. DHABE; Mr. Vice- and the Madhya Pradesh Government Chairman, Sir, in this debate, speeche s and the Chief Minister immediately have been made to welcome this Re- issued a'n ordinance which had the peal of the Maintenance 0f Internal support of the Central Government. Security Act. Sir, we talk of wel- The Central Government in spite of coming this Bill- In -my opinion, the protests by trade unions, could though it is a welcome step, it is a not do anything. Therefore, Sir, my mere ruse by the Jafcata Government submission is that detention laws are to divert the attention of the public still existing in many States, majo- 303 Maintenance oj Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 304 Bill, 1978 [Shri S. W Dhabe] can have a Government without army rity of whom are ruled by the Janata Party Governments, so far is irti- or police or any law to run such a cle 22 remains in the Constitution it big democratic cou'ntry. is tall talk to say that this is a red- Sir, if we really want to run this letter day and that the Janata Party country without such preventive has done a very big thing. It is detention laws, it is a very good idea, nothing but deceiving the public, Tn but people will have to be trained to this connection, I would like to say have peaceful agitations, peaceful that security of State is entirely a change of Governments and peaceful different matter tha'n keeping public methods of working. Was it done by order. For the maintenance of essen- this Government? The Party which tial services and other matters, a runs the present Government orga- •mere disturbance will not create the nised the railway strike in 1974 and problem of security of State. It should asked the army to break the laws. be remembered that the Maintenance of Internal Security Act was passed Sir, there is no reason to be apolo- getic about the emergency which was in July 1971 when we were facing the danger and fighting o'n the Bangla- clamped. I am surprised to fi'nd the desh border. Many problems of ene- C.P.I. leader saying that they are mies, foreigners and espionage were very sorry for it. Emergency was there. Section 3 0f the Act enume- clamped t0 oppose the fascist forces. rates the purposes for which it had It was to maintain law and orderi that been enacted. It says, defence of the emergency was clamped and a India, relations of I'ndia with foreign Resolution to that effect was passed powers, security of India, security of by this House. What happened after the State and the -maintenance of the emergenpy? Everybody knows public order and maintenance of sup- that. The real reason for the debacle plies and services essentia; to the of the Congress in the el2ctions was community. the emergency excesses in some parts I'n this connection, I may ask, Sir, of the country, especially about family planning and othe things a j not that that even though they may talk of r n( Rama rajya, is it possible for the the steps taken by the previous Gov- Government to run the country with- ernment were all wrong. The result of elections in the southern India out the police and the army and without any laws? What is happen- went in favour of the Congresg and ing today? Because there is no law; they lost in the north for reasons smugglers are being set free by courts. other tha'n -mere clamping of the They are released on bail a'nd some emergency. Therefore, Sir, my sub- of them have fled away from the mission is that so far as this Act is country. For economic offenders concerned, it has nothing to d0 with there are no sanctions. For the anti- the emergency. It was passed in social elements there is no law. There- 1971 when certain steps were taken fore, sir, the last Home Minister has" for the security 0f the country. rightiy suggested that some provision should be made in some other law to In this connection, Sir, I would like maintain law and order i this coun- to say that in our country democratic n political dissent is very essential. But try and to maintain the security of the country. The Jammu and Kashmir if democracy is to succeed without Government refused the directive of any draconian laws, it is essential that this Government. Jammu and Kash- all must follow the rules of the game. mir has a vast border where there are Peaceful and purposeful compaign problems of the security of State. It and a change in the Government is will have to be considered what steps possible if we can follow what is should be taken there. It is, there- called the basic principles of func- fore, Sir, too much to expect that we tioning of democratic institution. In this connection, I would say, Sir, that 305 Maintenance of Internal [27 JULY 1978] Security (Repeal) 306 Bill, 1978 if this is to be a beginning of a new Government. They should take steps era in our country, it is very essential to delete the other provisions so that that there should be some norms and there will be no preventive detentions a ntional dialogue should als0 be held in this country in future. to see what steps can be taken to PROF. SOURENDRA BHATTA- curb the smuggling activities, the CHARJEE (West Bengal): Mr. Vice- espionage activities a'nd the various Chairman, Sir, o'n behalf of my Party, other economic offences. But today, the R.S.P., I wholly endorse this one Sir, the position is entirely different. sentence repeal Bill which has been I agree with Mr. Kalp Nath Rai in moved here by the Minister of State this -matter. The problems in regard for Heme Affairs. As a matter 0f to law and order are so many. Trains fact, it was long overdue. My only are being looted openly durivig day- appeal would be that, when this re- time. Bank robberies are taking place peal Bill is passed—by all indications, in the capital itself. People have a it appears it will be passed unani- feeling that there is no security and mously—the day o'n which this repeal n0 rule 0t law. Therefore, Sir, in Bill is passed, should be a day of order to enforce the rule of law, if declaration that in a democracy there this Governmeat can create conditions is no place for detention without when there will be no economic offen- trial, preventive detention or things ders, when there wiH be no anti-so- like that. cial elements and when there will be an ideal society, the'n, it can be said that the beginning which we are making today will be useful and pur- poseful. I would again say that if this Government is genuinely inter- ested in seeing that there is no deten- tion of political workers and that they should have the freedom to conduct agitations peacefully, they must take Let the day on which this repeal Bill further steps in this regard. They is passed be taken as an occasion for should see that article 22 is deleted a declaration of this principle, a from the Constitution. They should principle which has been denied so ask their Governments in Madhya far in this largest democracy o1 the Pradesh, Rajasthan and U.P. to abo- world, since its foundation. As has lish the Acts such RS the Maintenance been referred to earlier, Independent cf Essential Services Act and sO on. India has practically been without a If this is 'not done, it will be a mean- period when preventive detention in ingless formality. Tomorrow, they one form or the other was not there. will again say that they require a It is very heartening that those who law. Under article 22(7), they may were at one time responsible for the bring in a new law to restore the promulgation of such Acts_ are now original position. Of course, I con- coming forward to support this repeal gratulate the Government for repeal- Bill. After being divested of power, ing MISA. They have also taken after seeing the results, they "have aclion to restore the freedom of the perhaps come to realise that illegal Press r*nd the liberty Qi the indivi- laws, unlawful laws like this, are un- dual. But the liberty of the indivi- able to keep one in power. But this has dual and the security of the State are been the tradition of the ruling party equally important. On the economic in our country that they have always side, there have been some failures. relied on such laws. The history has Before I conclude, I would once again been recounted at length by respected say tha;; this is a step which every Mr. Bhupesh Gupta, I need not go into it- Tn spite of the delay, I would citizen in this country welcomes. But they expect much more from this congratulate the Minister of State for 307 Maintenance of Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 308 Bill, 1978 [Shri Prof. Sourendra Bhattachar- different parts of the country. I jee]. would expeet that while bringing for- ward this Bill the Janata Govern- Home Affairs and his Government for bringing forward this Bill to repeal ment should act in consonance with the election promise and declare that this Act after, I should say, much f hesitatingly giving up the idea of they are in favour of the release ° all political prisoners irrespective of bringing about some Act t0 substitute MISA. the question of violence or non-vio- lence. While this overdue legislation has been brought forward, I would like to draw the attention of the House to To one other aspect also I would th certain other factors. We know that like to draw the attention 0f e during the last 16 months, in spite of House. Ours is a country where em- n the promises of the Janata Party, phasis has been laid 0 mixed eco- many political prisoners are yet be- nomy. Mixed economy is another hind the bars in different parts of the name for capitalism. It goes without country. The question of the juris- saying that acute exploitation of the diction of the State Governments may working class in the mixed economy come in, but the fact remains that system is a known fact. Notwith- when the Janata Government was re- standing the promises of the present turned to power after elections and Government of doing away with un- a demand was made that according employment in 10 years, in the last to its election promise all the political one year the unemployment has been prisoners be released, it was at that on the increase. In the last one year, point that the question of abjuring unemployment has been On the in- violence was raised and on that plea crease. While unemployment has in- many political prisoners were forced creased, the production has, in effect, to remain in jails. It was not dec- fallen and the workers all over the lared as a general policy 0f the Union country have been facing attacks from Government. The cases of Kanu the side of the capitalists in different Sanyal, Souren Bose and others like forms. Naturally, the workers are them were raised by Comrade also resisting. The limited extent to Bhupesh Gupta this very day. The which the democracy has been restor- cases against th&m have been with- ed has helped them in this struggle. drawn by the Left Front Government But, on the other hand, we find that in West Bengal, as they have been the Janata Government als0 is relying withdrawn against all the politi- on the police and forces like that to cal prisoners and effected their re- suppress the movement of the wor- lease already... (Interruptions) Yes, kers. The lessons of Bailadilla and by all means. But the point is that Pant Nagar cannot be very easily for- the Plea of violence and non-violence gotten. In a class-divided society in has been taken now. This is a very which there is domination of the old controversy, a controversy which capitalist class over the society, the has been raised in the country as long ruling power has the propensity, as back as in the British days when has been proved all these 30 years, to there was a national movement. meet the toiling peoples' demands with repression, with detention with- [The Vice-Chairman, (Shri Syed out trial and other oppressive mea- Nizam-Ud-Din) in the Chair] sures. A part of it has already been resorted to by the Janata Govern- There was a very big controversy ment. On the other side, they have and notwithstanding that controversy brought this Bill t0 repeal ' MISA we went ahead with that national which I take as a declaration on their movement. That plea was taken to part that in a democracy there is no keep a [arge number 0f workers of place for detention without, trial. But political movement behind the bars in if they are to follow it to the logical 309 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) , 310 Bill. 1978 conclusion, they must give up the days. We differed from the Indian idea of suppressing the toiling peoples' Union Muslim League leadership say- movement with the help of police or ing that we should not support the para-military force or military even. Congress and walked out of the It has been proved t0 the hilt that League and formed our own Muslim even unbridled power cannot retain League in Keraia as All India Muslim a ruling power entrenched in the face League which is different from the of the rising tide of toiling peoples' Indian Union Muslim League.. For movement. It is a very recent ex- that reason, Sir, our leaders were put perience a«d my appeal to my friends behind the bars in Kerala by Mr. in the ruling party would be that they Achuta Menon Government led by the should be cautious that in following Communist Party 0f India. We repre- this age-old line, they should not sented this matter to the then Chief deviate in future from the profession Minister, Mr. Achuta Menon, but he of the principle that is being made said he was helpless in the matter. All today in meeting the popular discon- these things had been done by the tent which they have not been able Home Minister even though the Chief to contain, or the tide which they Minister belonged t0 the"'Commuritst have not yet been able to reverse. Party. Though he waa the Chief Min- Unless their economic policy is fun- ister he put the blame on the'Home damentally different, in the days to Minister of his 0w'n Cabinet. That was come, from what they have been the state of affairs^ at that time. following now, the strong tide °f popular movement is bound to be Power corrupts and absolute power there. Let them not depend on the corrupts absolutely. Even though the draconian laws on which the earlier Communist Party was working for regime depended. I hope they wiH the working class, when power was not resort to them and this will be an there with them in Keraia they want- enduring declaration of the principle ed to share it with the Congress. that in a democracy there is no place They never thought of coming out of the Ministry because they we tast- for preventive detention in 0ne guise re or the other. With this expectation, I ing the Ministerial powers in Keraia. support the Bill. Sir, there are many cases. Even in- tellectuals, students were not spared. SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: You know Rajan's case that is going Sir, I support the repeal 0f the Main- on in a Coimbatore court. Rajan was tenance of Internal Security Act of a student of an engineering college. 1971. When this Bill was introduced He got rank in the University. He in this House in 1971, many of us was not only arrested but he was supported this Bill. Then the former tortured t0 death. I do not want to Prime Minister gave ah assurance to say anything in thia matter since this House a'nd to the Nation that this the matter is sub judice. When will not be used against political Rajan was missing we went to leaders, workers and the kisans and the Chief Minister of our State. He that it would be used only against was not a Congressman; he belonged undesirable elements, black-marke- to the Communist Party. He replied teers and so on. But our experience that he did not know where Rajan shows that MISA has been misused was. He did not have the guts to very badly throughout the length find out from the IG. 0f Police as to and breadth of the country. During where Rajan was. Many of us even emergency MISA has been notoriously went t0 Mr. Bhupesh Gupta and told used even against my party leaders. him, "Sir, y0ur leader, Mr. Achuta Five leaders in Keraia they were the Menon, is ruling Kerala. Why do you MISA victims. Even though we sup- not make use of your good office and ask the Chief Minister to trace him ported this Bill in 1971 we were the victims of this Government. I belong- out? Mr. Achuta Menon is your Party leader." He was the son ed to the Muslim League in those

311 Maintenance of Internal [RAJYA SABHA] Security (Repeal) 312 Bill, 1978

[Shri Hamid Ali Schamrad]. I d0 not believe in such ideological of Prof. Warriar. So he expressed his fights as between Gandhism and sympathies with thern. He said, Nehruism. After all, it was with 'What can I do? Even your Chi-* Gandhiji's blessings that Nehru had Minister is helpless. He is in the come up. Everybody knows that it hands of the Home Minister". So was Gandhiji who nominated Jawa- that was the position. harlal as his heir and not Sardar Patel. I do not want to go into that They say collective responsibility. angle now, but nowadays everybody Now what is happening in the Janata wants to claim that he is a Gandhian. Government? The same thing was That is the difficulty. Everybody says, there in Kerala in those days. But "I am a Gandhian." Everybody says neither the Communist Party of India an he is following the Gandhian philo- nor the Congress nor y other party sophy. I only pray to God Almighty thought on that issue. That was the to save Gandhiji from these so-called state of affairs. And that continues followers of his. even to this day. Now, Sir, you are repealing this Now, when we think of law and law. S0 -ma'ny atrocities were com- order, we must say that there is some mitted by misusing the provisions of slackness in law and order; looseness the law. I do not want to repeat all there. So many sabotages were there those miserable incidents. Five Mus- in the country. There were r.ailway lim League Leaders were detained sabotages; there were many atrocities under MISA. They never supported against the Harijans. Also the general the JP. movement. The only sin law and order in the country is let they committed was that they said loose. I appeal to the Home Ministry that emergency was wrong. They to consider these factors. Even today said that they could 'not all the time a matter has been raised in the House support the Congress. Muslims of as t0 what happened at the Western India had supported the Congress for Court in Delhi, which is an M.Ps' thirty years. They said, "Hereafter hostel. I d0 not know whether what we do not stand on that ground". And is alleged is true or not, but even all the five leaders of the Muslim there it is said the matter is under an League were arrested d kept be- investigation as such. What happened hind the bars. They were released at Western Court, which is supposed only after emergency was lifted. So to be an M.Ps' hostel, is some murder that was the state of affairs that con- or suicide or some such thing has tinued. happened. Anyhow, I do not know Sir, Mrs. Indira Gandhi was defeat- what it is. ed at the elections because of her doings and undoings not because she SHRIMATI SAROJ KHAPARDE was the daughter of Pt. Jawaharlal (Maharashtra); Still that investiga- Nehru or because she as the grand- tion is on. daughter of Pt. Motilal Nehru. We do not agree with those leaders who cri- SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: ticise Nehru family as whole. There Every one of of us is interested in a this matter because it is a matter of is conflictj they say, between Nehru- ism and Ga'ndhism. This is absolutely law and order, especially in the capi- meaningless, and, if I may use the tal city of India. It happened at a place not even tw0 kilometres away word_ stupidity> because historians will never say anything against Pt. from the house of Mr. Morarji Desai Jawaharlal Nehru who contributed so or the house of the President of India. •much for the natiohat " uplift and SHRI YOGENDRA MAKWANA als0 pushing our country to the (Gujarat); They want t0 suppress the topmost position in the world. facts. But that has nothing to do with this. 313 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 314 Bill. 1978 SHRI HAMID ALI SCHAMNAD: oppose the ruling party in Kashmir. Even this type of things are there, I I do not know what the truth is. But am sorry to say that. I have been to these are matters for the Government Bombay the other day. Some people to consider and persuade Sheikh were telling me—who do not belong Abdullah. After all, the Union Gov- to any party—there was lawlessness ernment should have a hold over the in the country. Many people expres- Chief Minister of Kashmir. It is not sed their views and people ifind it an independent State. Now, can you difficult to move about because there say that all the parties have freedom is hooliganism and rowdyism in the of expression and freedom of asso- country. Whether Indira Gandhi's ciation in Kashmir? I am told that followers are responsible or others are now terrorism is let loose by the responsible, it is immaterial because, State Police of Kashmir against the as far as the citizens of this country people who do not support the Gov- are concerned, they want to live ernment there, and this point may peacefully. So it is for the Govern- be considered by the Government. ment to see that such things are put down with a heavy hand and, I am quite sure, Mrs. Indira Gandhi's fol- With these words, Sir, I conclude lowers also will co-operate with the my speech and support the Bill. Government in putting down this Thank you. hooliganism in this country.

Now police people say, "We are punished for what we did during the Emergency period. Therefore, why should we care?" In Kerala two DIGs of Police are accused in a case and they are facing a trial today. So the police people feel, "Why should we worry? All that we did was under the verbal orders of the Minis- ters. Now we are accused. Therefore, why should we worry?" Such feel- ings are there. Therefore, it is for the Government to consider this mat- ter and see that law and order is maintained in this country at any cost, and they should show to the country that without MISA and with- out Emergency they will be able to maintain law and order in this country.

Now, Sir, a word about Kashmir. When we repeal MISA in India, it should be made applicable to Kashmir also. In Kashmir also law and order is at stake. People who do not support Sheikh Abdullah's party are not allowed to move freely, and freedom of movement, freedom of association and freedom of expres- sion are denied to those people who

315 Maintenance of Internal [RAJYA SABHA] Security (Repeal) 316 Bill, 1978

317 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 318 Bill, 1978

SHRI K. K. MADHAVAN (Kerala): I want to ask; Is the Hon. Member prepared to learn a South Indian language?

SHRI JAHARLAL BANERJEE (West Bengal): A point of order. I want to know whether the speaker has got any right to question the non- Hindi Chief Ministers' Conference and other things in this connection? SHRI JAHARLAL BANERJEE: SHRI NAGESHWAR PRASAD Yes, yes, absolutely right. I congra- SHAHI: I am very much astonished tulate you. that my learned friend does not know what can be spoken here.

319 Maintenance of Internal [RAJYA SABHA] Security (Repeal) 320 Bill, 1978

SHRI G. C. BHATTACHARYA (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, . . . THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN); No more names here. The Minister. SHRI G. C. BHATTACHARYA: My name has been written by the Deputy Chairman. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN); We t'o by the list of names given by the parties.

321 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) . 322 Bill, 1978

SHRI KALP NATH RAI: Wh0 said it?

SHRI ANANT PRASAD SHARMA: Nobody in the House said it.

323 Maintenance of Internal [RAJYA SABHA] Security (Repeal) 324 Biit, 1978 Is not the Janata Party manifesto binding on the State Governments? 6 P.M. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: From the Constitution you delete article 22(7) and also Entries 9 and 3 from the Union List and the Concurrent List respectively. Then, no State will be in a position to pass any preventive detention law. Now, Jammu and Kashmir has got it; Madhya Pradesh has got it; Bihar has got it; and UP also has got it.

SHRI S. W. DHABE; But you are retaining it. (Interruptions)

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: You have the Intelligence people and the Intelligence people are doing it. I am reading the newspapers. Mr. R. N. Kau was the Head of the Research and Analysis Wing. He has told the Shah Commission.. (Interruptions) THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN): The ques- tion is: "That the Bill to repeal the Maintenance of Internal Security Act, 1971, as passed by the Lok Sabha, be taken into considera- tion."

325 Maintenance of Internal [ 27 JULY 1978 ] Security (Repeal) 326 Bill. 1978 SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; Sir, he THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI told the Shah Commission that he did SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN); You have not collect any internal intelligence. already spoken on this. (Interruptions). It is a blatant lie. (Interruptions) SHRI S. W. DHABE: B.ut I want to say something on his statement. Sir, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI the Minister has said that article SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN); We shall 22(7)(a) will be amended to reduce now take up the clause-by-clause the period. (Interruptions). I would consideration of the Bill. like to ask whether it will serve the Clause 2 was added to the Bill. purpose. Secondly, the Janata Party manifesto says that they would repeal Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the MISA. It seems that the mani- the Title were added to the Bill. festo is binding only on the Central Government and not on the State SHRl BHUPESH GUPTA; You Governments ruled by the Janata should ask Madhya Pradesh and Party. I would like to know from Bihar not to use it till we amend the him whether this is so. Constitution. (interruptions) SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, one SHRI DHANIK LAL MANDAL: suggestion I would like to make. I Sir, I beg to move: did not want to speak. But, since you have allowed us, I would like to make "That the Bill be passed." one suggestion. So long as the Cons- The question was proposed: titution does not give the guarantee, SHRI S. W. DHABE; Sir, I wanted the States are free to do what they like. Therefore I will suggest to him to speak. that before the Forty-Sixth onstitution (Amendment) Bill comes, let the llth Entry of the Union List and the Con- current List, which empower State Governments and the Union Govern- ment to pass such law, be deteted. Article 22 should also accordingly be modified. The Constitution should not have the sanction for preventive detention. Unless you assure them, even you may come some time later under some pretext to have some ether law. Therefore, it is very im- portant. Finally, one point more. Whatever you may do, this law is administered by the Intelligence. We have seen during th emergency how the Intelli- gence branch or the Central Intelli- gence Bureau or the RAW as they call it, behaved; how they went out of their way to please somebody and gave false reports. Therefore I men- tion this thing. This R.N. Kao who was in charge 0f the RAW told the Shah Commission "that he had not SHRl S. W. DHABE; Sir, I want been collecting internal in- to speak on this. formation, he was only collecting ex- 327 Maintenance oi Internal [ RAJYA SABHA ] Security (Repeal) 328 Bill, 1978 [Shri Bhupesh Gupta] sing before the Commission. Even then they were committing perjury ternal information. It is a blatant He. by telling lies. He was collecting internal information and interfering with internal politics and was in the drive against the Naxalities. He even collected the information regarding election pros- pects of Mrs. Indira Gandhi be- fore the election was announced. Such are the people. As you know, another man Mr. Mathur, who was in charge of the Intelligence Bur- reau, used to go to Mr. Sanjay Gandhi to take direction from him and give information. And one good thing they did was that they gave wrong infor- mation to Mrs. Gandhi as far as the election prospects are concerned. They told her that she would win the elec- tion though by a simple majority. That is why she called the elections. This is the only good thing they did—with- out intending it.

Therefore, I say that these Intelli- gence people RAW and other agenci- es, should not be there because they are doing such things. Therefore I say that if you have this thing in the Con- stitution always, you will be in dan- ger. Hold a thorough inquiry depart- mental and otherwise, against these Intelligence officers like Mr. Mathur and Mr. Kao who made false state- ments before the Commission. Well,. 1 HE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI you can hold the enquiry. Or let a Parliamentary Commission be ap- SYED NIZAM-UD-DIN): Tha pointed. We shall probe how at that question is; time Mr. Kao was interfering in the internal affairs. Therefore, it is very important. Meanwhile, stop their "That the Bill be passed." pensions,, by a special law; stop the The motion was adopted. pensions of such officers, whether in the Intelligence Bureau or otherwise, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI who have been guilty of misuse of power. Administratively,, you can SYED certainly deal with these Intelligence The officers who wanted to placate—not House stands adjourned till 11.00 Parliament, not even the Govern- ment, but some individual who had A.M. tomorrow. no status under the Constitution. Therefore,, take this advice; Amend The House then adjourned the Constitution, to begin with, deal at eleven minutes past six with these officials who are now of the clock till eleven of the competing with each other in confes- clock on Friday, the " 28th July, 1978.