Deposition of: Historic Review Board Hearing 6.18.2019
July 3, 2019
In the Matter of:
DE Audio - NCC Department of Land Use
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1 NEW CASTLE COUNTY, DELAWARE 2 HISTORIC REVIEW BOARD 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 Department of Land Use 5 87 Reads Way, Corporate Commons, New Castle, Delaware 6 Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7 5:00 p.m. 8 9 HISTORIC REVIEW BOARD IN ATTENDANCE: 10 Barbara E. Benson, Chairperson 11 Karen Anderson, AIA, LEED B+D 12 John T. Brook, Esq. 13 John R. Davis, PE 14 Barbara H. Silber, MA, RPA 15 Steve L. Johns, PE, PLS 16 DEPARTMENT OF LAW IN ATTENDANCE: 17 Colleen Norris, Esq. 18 DEPARTMENT OF LAND USE IN ATTENDANCE: 19 Elizabeth Caulfield 20 Christopher Jackson 21 Stacey Dahlstrom 22 George Haggerty 23 Richard E. Hall 24 Transcribed by: Karen Ehatt
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1 ON BEHALF OF APPLICATION 2019-06424: 2 MAX B. WALTON, ESQ. 3 ON BEHALF OF APPLICATION 2019-02592: 4 PAMELA J. SCOTT, ESQ. 5 B.J. CAREY, VP OF CONSTRUCTION, BLENHEIM HOMES 6 DOUGLAS ERIKSEN, Project Manager, Bernardon 7 ON BEHALF OF APPLICATION 2019-0919-S: 8 CARMINE FASCIOLA 9 MARK ZIEGLER, MCBRIDE & ZIEGLER 10 GARY BURCHAM 11 12 PUBLIC ATTENDEES: 13 JOE BENUCCI 14 JAY ZIONKOWSKI 15 JANET PREGEL 16 CHRIS CARNELLI 17 ALISON MATSEN, MIDDLETOWN HISTORICAL SOCIETY 18 KEVIN CANECO 19 GREG SHELTON 20 COUNCILWOMAN DEE DURHAM 21 COUNCILMAN DAVID CARTER 22 COUNCILMAN BILL BELL 23 24
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1 I N D E X 2 3 PAGE 4 Rules of Procedure 4 5 Application 2019-06424 7 6 Application 2019-02592 21 7 Public Comments 48 8 Rebuttal 85 9 Application 2019-0919-S 88 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MS. BENSON: All right. Ladies and 3 gentlemen, I'd like to call the New Castle County 4 Historic Review Board public hearing to order for 5 June 18th, 2019. It is 5:00 -- 5:01 by the meeting 6 room clock. 7 We begin with roll call. I'm Barbara 8 Benson. 9 MR. DAVIS: John Davis. 10 MR. JOHNS: Stephen Johns. 11 MR. BROOK: John Brook. 12 MS. ANDERSON: Karen Anderson. 13 MS. BENSON: Okay. Now we also have 14 with us Betsy Caulfield, the preservation planner, 15 Christopher Jackson from the Department of Land Use, 16 Stacey Dahlstrom from the Department of Land Use and 17 George Haggerty from the Department of Land Use. 18 Okay. 19 MALE SPEAKER: It was a late night for 20 us. We had events going on so all showed up. 21 MS. BENSON: Good. Rules of procedure, 22 Betsy, please. 23 RULES OF PROCEDURE 24 MS. CAULFIELD: Sure. This is a public
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1 hearing conducted by the New Castle County Historic 2 Review Board. The purpose of these hearings is to 3 compile a record of relevant information regarding 4 each application and how the proposed projects affect 5 the county's historic resources. 6 To make the most efficient use of time 7 at this hearing, the following rules of order are 8 established: Following the reading of each agenda 9 item, the applicant and their representatives will 10 make a presentation, not to exceed a total of 15 11 minutes. 12 Board members may ask questions of the 13 applicant at the conclusion of the presentation. 14 The public will then be invited to 15 speak in the following order: One, those who wish to 16 speak in favor; two, those who wish to speak in 17 opposition; and three, those who wish to offer general 18 comments. 19 Speakers are encouraged to be brief and 20 to focus their remarks on historic issues. 21 So that everyone has an opportunity to 22 be heard, all speakers are limited to five minutes. 23 Any speaker may ask the Board to hold the record open 24 for submittal of written testimony if the time limit
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1 is not sufficient for their needs. 2 Speakers are not permitted to debate 3 the applicant but may ask questions that the applicant 4 may choose to answer during his rebuttal period at the 5 close of the public comment period. 6 All testimony is recorded and 7 transcribed. Therefore, all speakers must come 8 forward to the table, one at a time, and state their 9 name, address and organization affiliation, if any, 10 before offering comments. 11 Random comments from the audience will 12 not be recognized. And the public is asked to respect 13 the applicant's right to an orderly hearing. 14 No recommendations or decisions will be 15 made by the Historic Review Board at this hearing 16 today. The Board will evaluate the information, 17 testimony and comments received here at a public 18 business meeting to be held at the first Tuesday of 19 next month. 20 MS. BENSON: Thank you. And before we 21 begin the rest of the agenda let me note that Barbara 22 Silber has joined the Board and that Richard Hall from 23 the Department of Land Use -- 24 MR. HALL: Thank you.
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1 MS. BENSON: -- is also with us. 2 All right. Will you read in the first 3 application, please? 4 MS. CAULFIELD: Our first application 5 for the evening is 2019-06424, 734 Paper Mill Road, 6 located on the south side of Paper Mill Road, 7 northeast of the intersection with Possum Park Road, 8 Text Parcel 08-047.00-039, Mill Creek Hundred. 9 Demolition permit to demolish a single-family dwelling 10 constructed in the Craftsman style circa 1935. NC15 11 Zoning. Council District 9. 12 MS. BENSON: Thank you. And we'll ask 13 the applicant to come forward, please. And while he's 14 doing that I'll note that Colleen Norris from the Law 15 Department has joined us. 16 Mr. Walton, please. 17 APPLICATION 2019-06424 18 MR. WALTON: How are you this evening? 19 Thank you for hearing me. Just to make things easy I 20 thought I'd do a little packet that I would hand out. 21 It will make my presentation go a little quicker, I 22 think. Members of the Board, pass these across. 23 So my name is Max Walton. And I'm 24 representing actually today Wood Brothers Holding, LLC
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1 which is an entity owned by myself and my mother and 2 to -- we used to purchase the property across the road 3 from her farm. And so that's what I'm here about 4 today. 5 I need to make a couple of primary or 6 initial disclosures to you. First, I'm an attorney by 7 trade. I represent New Castle County in several 8 matters and have for years. I am only here before you 9 today because I received a waiver from the Law 10 Department which allows me to represent myself and my 11 mom for this particular application and this 12 particular application only. 13 So my representation of the county in 14 this -- in this matter, please treat me just like 15 everybody else, and I should have no bearing on your 16 decision -- make a decision. 17 Second, I'd like to also disclose that 18 over a decade ago Ms. Benson, who's your chair, acted 19 as a historical expert for me in which I represented 20 the State of Delaware versus the State of New Jersey. 21 And I just wanted to disclose that for the record 22 so -- I've not had the pleasure of speaking with 23 Ms. Benson since that case ended, I don't believe. 24 MS. BENSON: That's true.
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1 MR. WALTON: But I just wanted to 2 disclose to the Board our prior working relationship. 3 With that said, I'm here to seek the 4 Board's approval to demolish the house located at 734 5 Paper Mill Road. As I noted in our prehearing 6 submission, I grew up across the street from this 7 particular property. And if you look at Exhibit 1, 8 I'd like to show you my mom's property where I grew up 9 is 751. The property we are talking about is 734 10 Paper Mill Road, just across from the top corner. 11 And I used to live at 742 Paper Mill 12 Road which is right across the street, a house which 13 my great-grandfather built, by the way. And he built 14 several of the houses along Vista Drive, and he was 15 also the former owner of our farm. 16 My mom still lives at our family farm, 17 and I'm there all the time. We've watched this 18 property owned by Betty Ayers deteriorate for many, 19 many years. Ultimately in -- after Ms. Betty passed 20 away, and you have my initial submissions where I sort 21 of explain the history and ownership, we were actually 22 approached by the owner of that property and the owner 23 of the property behind it to say would you be -- would 24 you be interested in buying it? And after much
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1 consternation we decided to buy the properties 2 ultimately because we wanted to clean them up, but we 3 wanted to control the disposition of what happened 4 across the street. 5 We closed on April 30th, so very 6 recently. Our initial plans were to try to save the 7 house, but when I finally got a chance to tour that 8 house -- and I used to trick or treat there, so I knew 9 the property well -- but it couldn't be saved. It's 10 structurally unsound. The windows have been broken 11 out. Nobody's lived there I think since about 2002, 12 2003 and so it's about 15 years. 13 So just a quick background so you know 14 who owned it. My great-grandfather bought 751 in the 15 '30s and that's far back I know. It was stated that 16 house was built about 1935. The deed says 1929 on 734 17 Paper Mill Road. I tried to buy the property. When I 18 used to live there I tried to buy the house from 19 Ms. Betty, and she was a really nice lady. She told 20 me she wasn't ready to sell. 21 There was property maintenance 22 complaints that were made about the property in 2007 23 and 2008. And Ms. Betty Ayers sold her house, and she 24 ended up living just directly next door, to an
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1 investor. He did nothing with it, and he was a really 2 nice guy because he didn't make Ms. Betty move all of 3 her stuff out of the house. And you saw from the 4 pictures that it is full of stuff. So the house is 5 just full of stuff, I mean, largely trash. 6 When I first went in I slipped and fell 7 on the second floor, and I had in my hand an unopened 8 letter from 1956. So that's how much things are in 9 the house. The electric has been cut off for 10 better -- and water, and basically it's just been left 11 in disrepair. 12 I didn't know what to do to show you 13 the condition of the house. Exhibit 2 of my packet, 14 which I just handed out, is pictures, many or most of 15 which were provided to you ahead of time. There's a 16 lot of water that was done. 17 Before we purchased it we did an 18 environmental phase one on the property. There was a 19 significant amount of asbestos. Many of the windows 20 have now been -- to remove the asbestos have been 21 taken out, and the pictures you see here was before 22 that was done. 23 So in Exhibit 3, Department of Land Use 24 posted for this hearing today, basically posted the
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1 property for me. Thank you very much. And so I just 2 took a picture because as a land use attorney you 3 always make sure that you satisfy those posting 4 prerequisites, and you make a record about that. 5 Following my initial visit with Betsy 6 and CHAD where we met through, I contacted Kate and 7 Marcy of the University of Delaware's CHAD program. 8 We talked about it. She sent me a proposal. I had 9 signed and executed a proposal to document the 10 property. We are hopeful that you'll grant us a 11 permit after Kate does her field work. But she's not 12 going to make the documentations until I think 13 September completed. But we're hopeful that we can do 14 that. 15 So as George will tell you, I'd like to 16 go over the standard, what's the standard that the 17 Board is to apply, and that's 40312AG of the Unified 18 Development Code. And I believe we meet those 19 standards. So the standard states the Historic Review 20 Board shall consider whether the building, structure 21 or object can be used for any purpose which it is or 22 may be reasonably adapted. And I submit that it 23 cannot be reasonably adapted. The house can't be 24 reasonably adapted for any use. It's going to fall
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1 over on itself soon, and it's just not sound. 2 Applicant must demonstrate that the 3 sale of the property is impractical. I did just buy 4 the property, so I guess it's a technical matter. But 5 we bought it because it was across the street and 6 because we wanted to control the disposition of the 7 house. But that house cannot be rented. It hasn't 8 had any heat. The electric -- you can actually see if 9 you -- I think there's a picture in there of the 10 electrical box. It has a bare wire that goes all the 11 way up. So it's impractical for use as a residence, 12 and it's in pretty deplorable condition. 13 And we did not cause this property to 14 deteriorate. I will tell the Board I would have loved 15 to have bought that house 15 years ago. I wish 16 Ms. Betty would have sold it to me because I'd 17 probably be living there, and I'd have fixed it up, 18 but I can't do it now. 19 And so anyway, I thank you for the 20 opportunity to make this presentation. I didn't go 21 15 minutes. I went about nine. I know I have 15, but 22 that's really what I have to say. I tried to give you 23 as much as I could ahead of time. So I'm happy to 24 answer any questions to the best of my ability.
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1 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Do we have 2 questions? John. 3 MR. BROOK: Yes. John Brook. One of 4 the other things we're interested in in houses like 5 this is whether they have any historical significance. 6 Other than being 84 years old, is there anything about 7 this property that would be of historical significance 8 that you're aware of? 9 MR. WALTON: Not to my knowledge, no, 10 certainly. If I could ask, Betsy, it's a particular 11 style of house that you mentioned. What is that style 12 which I can't remember right now? 13 MS. CAULFIELD: Craftsman era. 14 MR. WALTON: Craftsman style. I'm 15 sorry. That to my knowledge is the only -- the Ayers 16 live across the street, and based on the timeframes, 17 he's lived from the time my great-grandfather bought 18 our current farm was owned by the Ayers family. It 19 was Clifford Ayers. It was in his name until 2008. 20 Betty Ayers lived in it, so there's no other 21 historical significance of which I'm aware. 22 MR. BROOK: The other question I have 23 is what are your plans for the property? 24 MR. WALTON: Well, we're trying to
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1 figure that out right now. We probably are going to 2 submit a development application at some point in 3 time, but exactly what we're going to do, we haven't 4 really decided that. 5 MR. BROOK: Do you own property in 6 addition to this? 7 MR. WALTON: Just across the road at my 8 mom's house. 9 MR. BROOK: You own 734? 10 MR. WALTON: Yeah. I'm sorry. Can I 11 show you? 12 MR. BROOK: You own -- 13 MR. WALTON: Can I go to my map? Yes. 14 We own two property -- 15 MR. BROOK: 734, you own 742 also? 16 MR. WALTON: No, sir. No, sir. 17 MR. BROOK: I thought you said you 18 lived there. 19 MR. WALTON: I used to live there. 20 MR. BROOK: Oh. 21 MR. WALTON: I used to live there years 22 ago. We bought two properties. We bought this. We 23 bought the entire Ayers parcel. So if you go to the 24 second page of Exhibit 1, we own 0804700-031 as well.
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1 MR. BROOK: Okay. But you own that 2 one, too. 3 MR. WALTON: Yeah. We own -- we bought 4 the property behind. And also just for -- 5 MR. BROOK: So you own the property 6 between those two roads? 7 MR. WALTON: That's correct. We own 8 all that between the two roads. And our -- well, it's 9 now my sister's family business is also on this road. 10 You asked me what other properties we have. We have a 11 business, a legally existing nonconforming use which 12 is also on that road just down the -- just down the 13 path about four lots -- further lots down. 14 MR. BROOK: What is that? 15 MR. WALTON: It's Walton Corporation. 16 It's a drilling contracting company. 17 MR. BROOK: So the builder? 18 MR. WALTON: Yeah. That's where it's 19 located. 20 MR. BROOK: Oh, I didn't know that. 21 All right. 22 MR. WALTON: Yeah. 23 MR. BROOK: I thought it said that was 24 at the farm.
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1 MR. WALTON: No. That's got its own 2 spot. 3 MR. BROOK: Okay. All right. 4 MR. WALTON: And then that was, of 5 course, part of my grandparents' house who owned the 6 other property. So we've lived here forever. But you 7 asked about the historical significance. I just know 8 that the Ayers family lived there. That's all I 9 really know. 10 MR. BROOK: Okay. Thank you. 11 MS. BENSON: Could I -- I know Karen 12 had her hand up. But before she does, could I ask you 13 in the house are there any distinguishing features, 14 fireplace that's interesting, fireplace surround, 15 anything in there where -- 16 MR. WALTON: Nothing that I -- I'm 17 going to ask Betsy, too, just because I can -- if she 18 remembers anything. But I tried to get pictures of a 19 lot of the house, and I took a video. There wasn't 20 anything that comes to mind that was interesting 21 architecturally that I remember. If there is 22 something, I just don't remember. 23 MS. CAULFIELD: Yeah. So we went and 24 did the site visit, there's a lot of original material
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1 in the house. So a lot of it is indicative of the 2 Craftsman style. So it seems mostly unaltered. There 3 is a lot like -- and so there's a lot of stuff in 4 there. 5 But it does appear to have the original 6 door surrounds -- 7 MR. WALTON: Sure. 8 MS. CAULFIELD: -- the windows and, you 9 know -- and things indicative of that method of 10 construction and time period of construction in that 11 style. 12 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Barbara? 13 MS. SILBER: And yes. Could you just 14 confirm the date of construction approximate? 15 MR. WALTON: So I looked at the deed 16 and it's 1929. If you go on the -- if you go -- 17 excuse me. If you go on the county parcel view it 18 says 1929. But you said '35, so I think we have a 19 discrepancy. 20 MS. SILBER: Okay. 21 FEMALE SPEAKER: Circa, around. 22 MR. WALTON: Foundation's here because 23 I thought it was right about the start of the Great 24 Depression.
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1 MS. BENSON: Karen? 2 MS. ANDERSON: Yes. You mentioned that 3 there was a phase one that was completed. 4 MR. WALTON: Yes. 5 MS. ANDERSON: I didn't see -- did you 6 submit that as -- a copy of that? 7 MR. WALTON: I did not. It's about 8 that thick. It's a really thick document. 9 MS. ANDERSON: Electronically? 10 MR. WALTON: I didn't -- I don't even 11 know that I have it electronically. 12 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. 13 MR. WALTON: But the answer is no. I 14 did a phase one that I'll represent it was done by Ten 15 Bears Environmental. They did it -- did before did 16 the property to find out what the hazards were on that 17 property, originally on the property. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Usually there's a 19 summary that they put in the -- in that phase one. 20 MR. WALTON: Yes. Yes, there is. 21 MS. ANDERSON: So you could -- 22 MR. WALTON: I can -- 23 MS. ANDERSON: -- maybe that could be 24 submitted.
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1 MR. WALTON: Sure. 2 MS. ANDERSON: So what -- can you just 3 review -- you said there was a fair amount -- there 4 was asbestos, the windows were removed or -- 5 MR. WALTON: Yeah. There were some 6 windows removed, yes, due to the asbestos -- 7 MS. ANDERSON: Is that where the 8 asbestos was found? 9 MR. WALTON: That's correct. 10 MS. ANDERSON: Just in the windows? 11 MR. WALTON: No. There was a lot of -- 12 there was -- in the piping in the basement and things 13 like that. There was a lot of asbestos in the house. 14 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. 15 MS. BENSON: Any further questions that 16 they have for you? 17 (No audible response) 18 MS. BENSON: If not, thank you. 19 MR. WALTON: Thank you for hearing me 20 and -- 21 MS. BENSON: We may call you back 22 depending on -- 23 MR. WALTON: Okay. 24 MS. BENSON: -- what we hear.
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1 Now is there anybody here who wishes to 2 speak in favor of this application? 3 (No audible response) 4 MS. BENSON: Anybody who's wishing to 5 speak negatively? 6 (No audible response) 7 MS. BENSON: Okay. Then we won't be 8 calling you back, Mr. Walton. 9 MR. WALTON: Well, thank you for your 10 time. Very much appreciate it. 11 MALE SPEAKER: Thank you. 12 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 13 MR. WALTON: And I will submit -- I'll 14 (indiscernible) submit any to Betsy. You can just 15 send those pages on to the Environmental Office -- 16 MS. CAULFIELD: Yes, yes. 17 MS. BENSON: That would be great. 18 Thank you. 19 All right. Would you read our next 20 application? 21 APPLICATION 2019-02592 22 MS. CAULFIELD: All right. Our next 23 application for the evening is Application 2019-02592: 24 2203 Audubon Trail located on the northeast side of
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1 Audubon Trail and southwest side of West Palladio 2 Place, north of the intersection with Mondrian Lane. 3 Tax Parcel 13-008.34-010. St. Georges Hundred. 4 Demolition permit to demolish a Folk Victorian style 5 dwelling determined eligible for the National Register 6 of Historic Places and known as the J. Houston House, 7 constructed circa 1880. S Zoning. Council 8 District 12. 9 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Applicant or 10 the applicant's representative, please? 11 MS. SCOTT: Yes. Thank you. Chair and 12 members of the Board, my name is Pam Scott. I'm here 13 on behalf of the applicant. As indicated, this is an 14 application -- we filed an application for a 15 demolition permit in connection with a farmhouse and 16 granary that is located within the Village of Bayberry 17 North which is a subdivision south of the canal just 18 outside of Middletown. 19 By way of background, when we started 20 the Bayberry project, which was in 2003, we came to 21 the Board in 2004 in connection with the review of the 22 subdivision plan as required by the code with respect 23 to this house and the granary. And there were a 24 couple other structures as part of the farmstead at
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1 the time. And at the time that we were here, we 2 indicated that it was our intent to retain the 3 structures, the granary and the farmstead, and see if 4 at some point in time we could find a buyer for the 5 house with kind of the granary likely would go with 6 that. 7 As I said, that was in 2004. A lot of 8 time has gone by, and a lot has changed in connection 9 with the Bayberry project. This is a project that has 10 in excess of 900 lots in it. It has a very long 11 build-out period. And the applicant took -- actually 12 took possession and ownership of the property in 2010. 13 Prior to that time, the property was in possession of 14 the prior owners who were responsible for the 15 structures on the property and the property itself. 16 Once it was acquired -- once the 17 property was acquired and ownership was taken the 18 applicant did attempt to secure the property, but 19 there have been a number of instances of vandalism in 20 the area. There has also been a good amount of water 21 infiltration into the house specifically that has 22 caused damage. 23 But at this point, I have two witnesses 24 I'd like to call for some very short testimony, if I
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1 could. 2 MS. BENSON: Please. 3 MS. SCOTT: And just to orient the 4 Board, the site is right here, all the way in the very 5 back of the subdivision of Bayberry North. 6 B.J., would you like to -- 7 MS. BENSON: And can we have your name 8 for the record, please? 9 MR. CAREY: Sure. B.J. Carey. 10 MS. SCOTT: And can you state who you 11 are employed by? 12 MR. CAREY: Sure. I work for Blenheim 13 Management Company. I'm the vice president of 14 construction. 15 MS. SCOTT: And what is it that you do 16 in that role? 17 MR. CAREY: Pretty much oversee all the 18 day-to-day construction activities, all the service 19 activities. I oversee the individual site supervisors 20 who build the houses, help with planning and 21 development. 22 MS. SCOTT: And you've been involved in 23 the development of the Village of Bayberry North; is 24 that correct?
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1 MR. CAREY: That is correct. I've been 2 there since -- about 12 years, so when the project 3 first got approved was my first year on the job. 4 MS. SCOTT: And the original plan for 5 Bayberry North was submitted in 2003 and then recorded 6 in 2007; is that correct? 7 MR. CAREY: I believe that's correct. 8 Yes. 9 MS. SCOTT: Has the plan changed since 10 2007? 11 MR. CAREY: The plan has changed pretty 12 significantly in -- yeah, since 2007. I'm sure 13 anybody who's been in the homebuilding industry knows 14 2007-2008 is when the market kind of crashed. So 15 originally Bayberry North was a lot bigger houses, 16 bigger single-family houses, and the townhouses that 17 were in there were much larger townhouses. Thirty-two 18 foot was the smallest townhouse which is a pretty 19 significant house. 20 So we went through and did the 21 workforce housing plan which increased the yield of 22 the neighborhood from 755 to a little bit over 950 23 houses. And in that time, we actually shrunk all the 24 lots down. We shrunk all the townhouses down. We
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1 changed the plan pretty significantly. 2 And as time has gone on, you know, 3 based on the market needs we've actually resubbed 4 (sic) the plan several times to change it to kind of 5 fit the needs of the market. We've gotten rid of some 6 of the bigger lots that we had. You know, we moved 7 some townhouses around. We've changed the location of 8 things just to try and meet the demands of the market. 9 MS. SCOTT: And in terms of this 10 particular lot with the house and the granary, how 11 have those changes impacted the farmhouse and the 12 granary? 13 MR. CAREY: Well, the original plan had 14 much larger single-family houses around that -- around 15 this house. So it was kind of more of a blended area. 16 You were going to have, you know, this older house 17 that was going to be next to larger and more expensive 18 houses. 19 But as the plan has changed, now across 20 the street you have 20-foot-wide townhouses which are 21 smaller, three-story townhouses. And now we have some 22 single families that back to the other side. But 23 again, they're smaller single-families. So that whole 24 side of the neighborhood has changed pretty
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1 drastically from the original plan in 2007. 2 MS. SCOTT: And does that -- is that in 3 response to the market -- not only the market but the 4 marketability of the type of structures that you would 5 be able to sell in the subdivision? 6 MR. CAREY: Yeah. Absolutely. The 7 original plan, like I said, was such large houses and 8 large townhouses. After the 2008 crisis, everybody's 9 moved down to smaller houses so it's -- we've really 10 had to change the plan in order to have the 11 availability of those smaller houses. Some of our 12 largest houses now were some of our smallest houses on 13 the original plan. We've actually done a complete 14 shift down. 15 MS. SCOTT: Are you familiar with the 16 farmhouse and the granary? 17 MR. CAREY: Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. SCOTT: You've walked through and 19 been in it, seen it -- 20 MR. CAREY: Yes. I've been in it 21 multiple times. 22 MS. SCOTT: Can you provide the Board 23 with some history with respect to the structures? 24 MR. CAREY: Sure.
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1 MS. SCOTT: I had indicated that while 2 we came here in 2004 the property was not at that time 3 owned by the applicant. So perhaps you can provide 4 some background. 5 MR. CAREY: Sure. So I got a little 6 bit of background from Ms. Baker. This was originally 7 the Baker's farm, that whole area. So Ms. Baker told 8 me that they purchased the farm in 1952, and it 9 included the farmhouse. And they didn't actually live 10 in the farmhouse for the first eight years. They 11 actually lived in a house out on Jamison Corner Road. 12 They moved into the farmhouse in 1960, 13 and they lived there for about 21 years. And they put 14 a Nanticoke home next to the farmhouse. They moved 15 into the Nanticoke, and the Bakers' son moved into the 16 farmhouse. He lived there for roughly 20 years until 17 his daughter graduated high school. Then he moved out 18 of that farmhouse over to the other farmhouse on the 19 property which would be east of where we're talking 20 about now. 21 After they moved out, the house just 22 pretty much sat empty from 2001. We recorded the plan 23 in 2004 saying that we -- you know, we'd preserve it. 24 In 2009, the Bakers let a gentleman
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1 live in there under the guise that he was going to go 2 through and maintain it and take care of it. They 3 found out shortly after that he was actually in there 4 stealing all the copper pipes. He pulled out all the 5 hot water baseboard pipes, all the water pipes. He 6 hadn't paid the electric bill, so there was no 7 electricity, anything. He had left a significant 8 amount of trash in the house. So they actually got 9 him out of there, and then we actually purchased it 10 from them in 2010 in the condition that it was in. 11 About 2013 is when we started the site 12 work in that area. Part of the site work in that area 13 actually took out the existing driveway and the 14 existing power poles and created this pond here. The 15 original driveway for this house came down here. So 16 once the site work started in there they came -- they 17 took out all the power, all the ability to have 18 electricity there and even to access the house. And 19 that site work took over a year until we could -- 20 until we actually had ability to get power back in 21 there or even access the lot. 22 After that, once people started living 23 in that neighborhood, we started having a rash of like 24 preteen kids going in there, graffiti-ing it, kicking
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1 out all the windows, pulling out tiles, tearing out -- 2 we went through and boarded up all the windows, 3 boarded up all the doors on the first floor. They'd 4 pop all the stuff off, still get in there. We ended 5 up putting a fence all the way around the house to try 6 and stop them out with a windscreen on it, and they'd 7 still pull the fence down, still pop the things out. 8 It's still an ongoing problem to this 9 day. I mean, just last week there was kids over there 10 playing that had to get chased out. Even though it's 11 completely boarded up, fenced in, they still go over 12 there and try and get into it. 13 MS. SCOTT: And you put a timeline 14 together in connection with this; is that right? 15 MR. CAREY: Yes. 16 MS. SCOTT: If I could submit that? 17 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 18 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. Are there any 19 questions for Mr. Carey? 20 MR. BROOK: Madam Chair? Madam Chair? 21 MS. BENSON: Yes, John. 22 MR. BROOK: I have a question for 23 Mr. Carey. 24 MR. CAREY: Yes, sir.
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1 MR. BROOK: Help me understand again 2 the ownership of this property, the house? We have in 3 here 2004 before this Board for approval of a 4 development. 5 MR. CAREY: Right. 6 MR. BROOK: And then we're back again 7 in 2008. You say you didn't acquire the property 8 until 2010? 9 MR. CAREY: Correct. So -- 10 MR. BROOK: I don't understand that. 11 MR. CAREY: Sure. So if you look at 12 the original plan, the original landowner signed off 13 on the plan, and we were the developer. So we didn't 14 actually buy that land from the original landowners 15 until we were over on that side of the property. 16 MR. BROOK: But it was under your 17 control. 18 MR. CAREY: It wasn't under -- it was 19 still under the Bakers' control up until we purchased 20 it in 2010 because they were still -- 21 FEMALE SPEAKER: They were gone. You 22 said they had moved out. 23 MR. CAREY: They had moved out. Their 24 son was -- their son lived in the front farmhouse
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1 which is on the southeast side of the property. 2 FEMALE SPEAKER: But they moved out of 3 this property. 4 MR. CAREY: Out of this house, correct. 5 FEMALE SPEAKER: Was that -- when was 6 that, 2001? 7 MR. CAREY: Their son moved out in 8 2001. Yes, ma'am. 9 MS. BENSON: John? 10 MR. BROOK: So whose plan was it that 11 was submitted in 2004 and 2008? 12 MR. CAREY: It was our plan. 13 MR. BROOK: It was your plan. 14 MS. SCOTT: Yes. 15 MR. BROOK: And it was your plan that 16 said that this house would be preserved? 17 MR. CAREY: Yes. 18 MR. BROOK: Okay. Thank you. 19 MS. BENSON: Please continue. 20 MS. SCOTT: Sure. I don't have any 21 other questions, but I do have another witness. 22 MS. BENSON: Okay. 23 MR. ERIKSEN: Good evening, folks. 24 MS. BENSON: Could you state your name
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1 for the record? 2 MR. ERIKSEN: Sure. My name is Doug 3 Eriksen. I work for Bernardon, an architectural and 4 design firm in Wilmington. 5 MS. SCOTT: And what is your position 6 with Bernardon? 7 MR. ERIKSEN: I am a project manager, 8 and we work -- my work primarily centers around work 9 with the State of Delaware with the historic buildings 10 that the state owns. We do a lot of renovation with 11 the State. 12 Prior to working for Bernardon I worked 13 for Michael Curtinel (ph) Associates doing similar 14 work. Did work with Winterthur and a number of other 15 historic properties. 16 MS. SCOTT: And was your firm retained 17 to review the farmhouse and the granary in question? 18 MR. ERIKSEN: Yes, we were. 19 MS. SCOTT: Essentially take a look at 20 the status and what could be done with it; is that 21 correct? 22 MR. ERIKSEN: Yes, ma'am. 23 MS. SCOTT: In that regard, did 24 Bernardon prepare a report dated June 2019 in
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1 connection with this particular property? 2 MR. ERIKSEN: Yes, we did. 3 MS. SCOTT: I believe that was provided 4 to the Board already so I -- 5 MALE SPEAKER: It was. 6 MS. SCOTT: -- don't need to submit 7 another copy. Okay. 8 Can you summarize for the Board your -- 9 the -- your findings with respect to the granary and 10 the farmhouse in question? 11 MR. ERIKSEN: Certainly. We reviewed 12 the -- we went to the property and reviewed it. And 13 let me just preface by saying that when I approach a 14 historic property one of the first things we look at, 15 okay, what can we do to save this property? However, 16 upon review of the existing property, it's apparent 17 that there's severe structural damage, severe damage 18 to the historic fabric, as it were, of the building 19 itself. 20 We looked at three different 21 possibilities. We like to look at preservation, 22 renovation and restoration, not necessarily in that 23 order. Preservation would be to preserve what's 24 there. Unfortunately, a large part of it is no longer
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1 there. Due to the elements there's been a lot of 2 decay and deterioration. So preservation really isn't 3 much of an option. 4 Okay. How about restoration? Well, 5 again, we'd have to restore more than half -- possibly 6 more than half of the property due to the 7 deterioration which just really is not economically 8 feasible. 9 And then there's renovation. We can 10 renovate it, but then we've got a house that in the 11 present market probably is not sellable. 12 MS. SCOTT: So the -- what were the 13 conclusions from your findings with respect to the 14 historic significance context however -- whatever 15 vernacular you would use in your business with respect 16 to the structures? 17 MR. ERIKSEN: It's a farmhouse of a 18 certain period, Queen Anne or Folk Victorian as it's 19 sometimes referred to. It's not an uncommon style in 20 this area. It's certainly not the preeminent piece of 21 this style in that area. 22 There were no significant events that 23 occurred on this property. And the building itself -- 24 the designers are -- you know, it was built by a
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1 carpenter. No historic or significant architects or 2 architecture of note. 3 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. I'd like to 4 give the Board an opportunity if anyone had any 5 questions with respect to the findings of the report. 6 MS. BENSON: Mr. Brook? 7 MR. BROOK: Yes. Thank you. 8 Mr. Eriksen, had you had the 9 opportunity to do the same investigation of this house 10 in 2004, do you think your report would have been 11 considerably different than it is today? 12 MR. ERIKSEN: Unfortunately I did not 13 see the property in 2004, so I could not speak to 14 that, sir. 15 MR. BROOK: You think no degradation 16 occurred to this property between 2004 and the current 17 date? 18 MR. ERIKSEN: There is degradation at 19 every property between that date and this date. 20 MR. BROOK: In 15 years, 15 years. 21 MR. ERIKSEN: There is degradation to 22 your house. 23 MR. BROOK: I know -- 24 MR. ERIKSEN: There's degradation to my
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1 house within the past 15 years. 2 MR. BROOK: I spend money to try to 3 keep my house in fairly good repair. 4 MR. ERIKSEN: Yes. To speak to that 5 specific house from that specific time period, I was 6 not there. I did not see the house in that time -- 7 MR. BROOK: Have you -- 8 MR. ERIKSEN: -- so I can only speak to 9 it -- 10 MR. BROOK: -- have you seen 11 photographs and other materials associated with this 12 house? 13 MR. ERIKSEN: I've seen -- 14 MR. BROOK: I mean, it is -- it's 15 been -- 16 MR. ERIKSEN: -- aerial photographs 17 from that particular -- 18 MR. BROOK: You've not seen pictures of 19 the house? 20 MR. ERIKSEN: No, sir. I can only 21 speak to -- 22 MR. BROOK: Okay. 23 MR. ERIKSEN: -- the present sense of 24 the house.
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1 MR. BROOK: Okay. 2 MS. BENSON: Any other board members, 3 questions? 4 (No audible response) 5 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 6 MR. ERIKSEN: Thank you. 7 MS. SCOTT: Just by way of summary, we 8 did -- Bayberry is an active community, and there are 9 a number of people that live there at this point in 10 time. We did have a meeting with the community in 11 June, on June 6th, to talk about this -- the house and 12 the granary and what, you know, may in fact ultimately 13 happen with the property. There were a number of 14 people that voiced support for the demolition of the 15 two structures. 16 And I would like to submit to the 17 Board -- we do have several petitions that are in 18 support of that of those people, mostly people that 19 are -- live in the immediate surrounding area of the 20 structures themselves. 21 And as Mr. Carey indicated, there have 22 been a number of changes to Bayberry over the years. 23 A number of enhancements have occurred for the benefit 24 of the community. I did want to submit -- this is
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1 somewhat of a summary in connection with kind of what 2 has been going in Bayberry since this project was 3 started in 2003. 4 MS. BENSON: Thank you. We'll have an 5 opportunity to read that, and you are over your time. 6 MS. SCOTT: And I'd just like to 7 reserve an opportunity for rebuttal if that becomes 8 necessary. 9 MS. BENSON: If that becomes necessary 10 you can -- 11 MS. SCOTT: Thank you very much. 12 MS. BENSON: All right. Now -- 13 MR. BROOK: Madam Chair? 14 MS. BENSON: Yes, John? 15 MR. BROOK: May we ask questions of the 16 witness, or do we have to wait? 17 MS. BENSON: Oh, yes. I guess we can 18 ask questions. I thought we were doing that all 19 along. But yes, go ahead. 20 MR. BROOK: Well, we had sort of. 21 MS. BENSON: Please, again. 22 MR. BROOK: Yes. Ms. Scott, let me see 23 if I understand this apple. There have been a couple 24 bites out of this apple so far. One was in 2004 when
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1 it was brought before this Board, and we approved this 2 development because this property was to be maintained 3 and protected. The lot was not to be divided. The 4 used shed was partially protected. 5 They came back again in 2008 due to 6 changes in financial -- in the housing market with a 7 different plan. But again, the house was still to be 8 protected. It's a house that's eligible for inclusion 9 on the National Register. At the time that this all 10 started it was in reasonably good condition. 11 Now you've come in with a demolition 12 permit which is the final bite of this apple. And you 13 have that supported by materials that have been 14 submitted including the report by I think Mr. Eriksen. 15 MS. SCOTT: Yes. 16 MR. BROOK: That details what terrible 17 condition the house is in. It's been denigrated and 18 deteriorated. Now it's beyond reasonable efforts to 19 repair, reasonable -- reasonableness to repair. It's 20 also supported by photographs. Both of these items 21 clearly indicate to me, and I think to most anybody 22 else who would look at them, that the -- whoever the 23 owner of this property was, and I think it must be the 24 people you represent, did not exercise the kind of
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1 care that should have been exercised to preserve the 2 historic property. 3 It's allowed -- been allowed to 4 deteriorate. The roof has been allowed to leak. The 5 windows have been destroyed. The weather has had 6 significant adverse impact on the property. 7 I'm not surprised that the neighbors 8 are interested in having this property removed. I 9 imagine they consider it an eyesore and probably a 10 dangerous thing to have. Didn't have to be that way. 11 It could have been restored. 12 I didn't hear any information from you 13 as to any efforts that were undertaken by the owners 14 of this property to have it sold to someone who would 15 restore it and keep it as a residential property. 16 Now if I am -- if I am in error in 17 anything that I've said I would appreciate being 18 corrected. 19 MS. SCOTT: I think it was a 20 combination of things, Mr. Brook. As indicated when 21 we came here the first time, we were pursuing the 22 approval of a plan that ended up taking four years to 23 get done. We were not in possession and control of 24 the property. We were working with the property owner
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1 at the time to get the plan through the process, but 2 we did not possess the property, and we did not own 3 the property. They were still responsible for the 4 property, for maintaining whatever structures may have 5 been on the property to the point that at one point 6 they had a tenant living in the house. And that 7 tenant unfortunately, unbeknownst to them, caused some 8 damage to the property. 9 You know, in hindsight should we have 10 come here sooner and talked to the Board about what 11 the options were for this house? Probably. Probably 12 should. But you know, this has been a very large 13 project. It has a very long build-out time. A lot of 14 different parts of it have been under construction. 15 This part of the subdivision has not been under 16 construction until more recently. 17 We did our best, I think, to try and 18 secure the property. We have had a number of problems 19 in the last several years with vandalism at the house 20 unfortunately, I think, from some of the children that 21 live in the area. We have attempted to secure it and 22 take care of it. Could we have done a better job? We 23 probably could have, yes. 24 MR. BROOK: I don't know whether the
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1 Bakers also deserve some of the blame either to share 2 with you or not. But it would seem that if you were 3 truly interested in preserving this property a 4 different effort -- different efforts would have been 5 undertaken to do it. 6 If it was never the intention to preserve 7 this property as a historic property, then it would 8 have been better 15 years ago if you had come in and 9 told us that we want to build this development, and 10 this property is -- this historic property is sitting 11 right here in the middle of what we want to develop, 12 and we'd like to knock it down. We would have 13 resisted that, but in nine months you would have been 14 able to do that. Would have saved you coming back to 15 two meetings and saved -- would have saved us four 16 meetings. So, you know -- 17 MS. SCOTT: And I totally understand 18 your point, Mr. Brook, and I don't disagree with it. 19 I would say I don't believe it was the intention in 20 the beginning not to do something with the property. 21 MR. BROOK: I hope not. 22 MS. SCOTT: Unfortunately -- or the 23 structures. Unfortunately, as I said, it took us a 24 very long time to get the plan approved. And then the
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1 market, as you may recall if you were in the -- in 2 business, the recession hit and it hit hard, 3 especially in the housing industry. 4 MR. BROOK: Very hard. 5 MS. SCOTT: And that -- you know, that 6 really took a lot of relooking at everything, changing 7 your marketing, changing the dynamics of the project 8 and what needed to be done. 9 So was this top of the list of things 10 that they were looking at? Probably not. And as I 11 said before, in hindsight we probably should have come 12 here sooner than now. 13 MR. BROOK: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. 14 MS. SCOTT: Sure. 15 MS. BENSON: Any other questions? 16 MS. ANDERSON: I just -- 17 MS. BENSON: Karen? 18 MS. ANDERSON: -- want to comment that 19 I am very -- I'm very much in agreement with what was 20 just spoken about in regards to the timeline for this 21 property. There are a couple of things. One, that 22 there was an agreement that part of the development -- 23 it was written in and it was on the plans that said 24 that this particular property was going to be
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1 preserved. So there had to be an agreement. 2 It was clear that the developer and 3 if -- at the time the previous owners, the Baker 4 family, the developer and the Baker family had already 5 had a discussion about how things were going to 6 proceed. They stayed in that property for X amount of 7 timeframe. Then they moved out. 8 That property was still in a decent 9 enough state that in 2009 a person, human being lived 10 there. Now never mind that maybe the person took out 11 some copper or did thus and such things to the 12 property. But it was not in the state of disrepair 13 that it stands in now. Okay. 14 And even looking at the timeline that 15 you have provided, in 2013 Blenheim went over to that 16 area and begin doing work right around the property. 17 So that means that people were there every day doing 18 work, looking at the property, seeing it every single 19 day, every single day. Five days a week there was a 20 crew there, you know, looking at it, watching it 21 deteriorate and doing nothing. That was in 2013. 22 Now we're in 2019. And now 23 unfortunately I find it kind of -- I don't know. I 24 find it kind of rude almost that you paid an architect
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1 to go out there June, that's this month, June 2019, 2 that's the date of that report, okay. So maybe it was 3 yesterday they went. I don't know. Okay. But it was 4 this month knowing that you were coming back to this 5 Board. That's the only reason why it appears that 6 this all of a sudden has manifested itself. 7 Back in 2013 a report could have been 8 done. Back in 2013 an investigation could have been 9 done. Back in 2013 when you started doing work in 10 that area something could have been done. And it's so 11 unfortunate that here we have something that is 12 documented; we have documentation that this particular 13 piece of property was eligible for the National 14 Historic Register. They had already done the 15 paperwork for it. It was already shown that it had 16 significant historic significance to it. And none of 17 this encouraged the developer to do anything until 18 June of 2019 when they paid an architect to go out and 19 write a report that will confirm that it's okay for us 20 to tear this down. 21 So I find it really off-putting, you 22 know. Development and the whole process, coming to 23 the county, going through -- coming to boards, having 24 the boards review things, having the public come here,
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1 that's all a -- this is important. This is a process 2 that we are -- that we are engaged in in order to 3 provide a fair playing field to everybody. 4 So when it appears as if you're coming 5 here and it doesn't appear like playing field is 6 looking very fair. So I'm very just disappointed in 7 this sequence of events, really, really disappointed, 8 and in the idea that now after you started -- I just 9 keep looking at this 2013 when you -- when Blenheim 10 was there on the property doing nothing. And now you 11 want to apply for a demolition permit even though you 12 were working there since 2013. So it's very 13 disheartening, very disheartening to see the way that 14 this process has unfolded. 15 MS. BENSON: I want to concur with 16 Mr. Brook and Ms. Anderson. I think it is extremely 17 disappointing. I would have expected better. 18 But if there are no other questions? 19 (No audible response) 20 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 21 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. 22 MS. BENSON: Is anybody here who wishes 23 to speak in favor of this project? All right. We'll 24 have you come up one at a time. Please come forward.
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1 Give us your name. 2 And I would ask in the interest of time 3 that you don't repeat the same thing. If you are in 4 favor for some reason and others are, we got you. 5 Thank you. Proceed. 6 PUBLIC COMMENTS 7 MR. BENUCCI: Hi. Good evening. My 8 name is Joe Benucci. I live in Bayberry. I lived 9 there for four years, going on five years. I'm also 10 the president of the maintenance corporation for 11 Bayberry. 12 It has been stated that the house is in 13 disrepair. We're getting a lot of complaints from 14 residents. Kids are in there. Cops are being called. 15 It's beyond the structure and I'm hearing what you're 16 saying about the timeline. I agree with that. But 17 it's now today that this structure is an eyesore, and 18 I don't think it can be salvaged. 19 As a person I lived in New Castle 20 County, lived in Delaware 63 years. Fifty-eight I 21 lived in old New Castle, so I know what an old house 22 is and what it's value is. And I've looked at this 23 house and it's beyond repair. And at the point what 24 they're trying to do is blend it in with the
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1 community. I don't think it will fit, in my personal 2 opinion. I'm just speaking as a resident, not as the 3 president or anyone else that has talked to me. 4 So I feel that, you know, it's a good 5 move. Unfortunately it's in disrepair. It has no 6 other way but, you know, to demo it, and hopefully 7 something else will turn out on that piece of 8 property. But basically when you look at it 9 whether -- whoever is to blame for the deterioration 10 it has been and a person that's lived in old houses 11 once things starts to go it's beyond economic reasons 12 to restore. 13 So like I said, I'm in favor of the 14 demo on this structure. 15 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 16 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: Hi. My name is Jay 17 Zionkowski, and I'm a resident on Audubon Trail who 18 lives just southeast of the property right across the 19 street. And I prepared a statement, if I may. 20 MALE SPEAKER: Sure. 21 MS. BENSON: Please. 22 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: I'm not going to speak 23 for the number of residents that support the 24 demolition of the Houston House. Blenheim can speak
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1 to that and have provided that information. I am 2 going to speak to the condition of the building as it 3 stands now and the concerns that have been raised so 4 far on Audubon Trail because the building stands as it 5 does. 6 So as many of you are aware, the 7 condition of the structures as they stand now, the 8 farmhouse, also known as the J. Houston Granary, is 9 boarded up. The front porch is caving in. The 10 building has been covered in graffiti. Many of the 11 floors and walls are missing, and the ceiling has been 12 stripped of drywall. The insulation is compromised, 13 as it has been wet before. 14 And based on the exterior of the 15 building I can only guess that the electrical wiring 16 is in need of full replacement. Based on the 17 statements at the community meeting and today, the 18 copper piping has been removed from the structure. 19 The barn is in the condition you would 20 expect. The roof is in disrepair, bent up in the 21 corners with a large hole on top, and the exterior 22 walls are falling off, and vines have grown over half 23 the structure. 24 So that leads me to what has been
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1 happening on our street, and that's what I can speak 2 to. So using our community social media, I reviewed 3 several report complaints regarding the structure 4 dating back to 2016. Audubon residents have reported 5 late-night vandals, teenager break-ins, reported 6 gunshots from inside the building, young adults 7 destroying windows with rocks and multiple suspicious 8 vehicles fleeing the building quickly, in one instance 9 almost running over a resident and his dog. 10 In response to these reported issues, 11 Blenheim has responded. In 2017, they cleaned up the 12 building of debris, boarded the windows and covered 13 the roof and installed a fence, all of which incurred 14 a cost. After hearing more issues, sometime between I 15 think it was -- if I recall correctly it was around 16 February to April of this year, Blenheim paid to 17 remove the trees surrounding the farmhouse and I would 18 imagine in an effort to provide a line of sight, but I 19 can't speak to that. Even after all these items were 20 addressed, more reports of vandalism continue to 21 occur. 22 So I come today to ask that this Board 23 approve the bid to demolish the blight on our street. 24 Our home values are impacted by this decision as well
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1 as children who live there. The building is a 2 dangerous hazard, and nobody wants to see a child or 3 teenager get hurt. 4 Additionally, many of the homes on 5 Audubon have small lots, and children often play in 6 the road. A new park or even an open space would 7 be -- would provide them with a safe place to play. 8 And I ask again to please approve the demolition of 9 the house. 10 One question I did have, and I don't 11 know if I'm able to ask questions today or if I should 12 wait. 13 MS. BENSON: You can ask the question 14 of the Board. You cannot ask the question to the 15 applicant, but we can then refer it if we choose to do 16 that. 17 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: Okay. The question 18 that I came prepared with was what historical 19 significance does the Houston House have? I did 20 review the National Register of Historic Places listed 21 in the Southern New Castle County, and this structure 22 is not listed. 23 And not to load the question but if the 24 Board denies Blenheim's bid to demo the house, what
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1 then? Will the building remain as it stands now? How 2 many delays might occur to decide its fate while the 3 residents continue to deal with issues? 4 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 5 MALE SPEAKER: You want me to try to 6 answer that? 7 MS. BENSON: Well, I can answer that 8 for you. 9 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: Okay. 10 MS. BENSON: The house would remain 11 theoretically for nine months. Put a hold on the 12 demolition. But then it would disappear. 13 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: I see. Okay. 14 MS. BENSON: Yes, Ms. (indiscernible). 15 FEMALE SPEAKER: Just to clarify 16 further for the nine-month hold, it's taken from when 17 the permit was filed. Of course, that was March 4th, 18 so it would be nine months from March 4th. 19 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: Okay. 20 MR. BROOK: Madam Chair? 21 MS. BENSON: John? 22 MR. BROOK: I have a question for 23 Mr. Zionkowski. You live near this house as I 24 understand your testimony; is that correct?
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1 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: That's correct. 2 Across the street and a little -- 3 MR. BROOK: How long have you lived 4 there? 5 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: I lived there four, 6 going on five years. 7 MR. BROOK: So the condition of the 8 house when you moved in was what? 9 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: From the outside of 10 the structure, from what I could see, I am at 2244 11 Audubon, so I am just down the street. From the 12 outside, the condition of the house is very similar to 13 what it is now. It did have vines growing on it. 14 MR. BROOK: When you purchased your 15 property there, did you ask anybody about the house, 16 what was going to happen to the house or -- 17 MR. ZIONKOWSKI: So when I purchased 18 the property there -- the sales office representative 19 informed me that -- I did ask because there were some 20 trees. And I said what's -- you know, what's back 21 there? And the sales rep informed me that the house 22 would probably be preserved. But other than that, you 23 know, I didn't have any other information. 24 MR. BROOK: Thank you.
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1 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Do we have 2 anyone else who wishes to speak in favor? Yes, ma'am. 3 Please come forward. Your name, please. 4 MS. PREGEL: My name is Janet Pregel. 5 I also live right directly across the street in the 6 townhouses that face the structure here in question. 7 I am in support of it being demolished. 8 My daughter is 12, and I walk our dog 9 around there. The fencing was totally inadequate to 10 secure the facility. We've been there a year and a 11 half. We've taken walks ever since we moved, and the 12 fencing was never adequate. 13 I went in in the spring myself into 14 where the fenced-in yard was and picked some 15 daffodils, okay, because they were popping up, and 16 they were beautiful. My daughter when she has walked 17 the dog has seen fox come out of the home, stray cats. 18 I have seen children in the neighborhood crawl out of 19 the windows on the second story onto the porch roof. 20 They're neighborhood kids. 21 And when we walked around the structure 22 there was some sort of what I would guess was a 23 cistern. So it was like a brick-enclosed hole in the 24 ground. To me, it was like there -- somebody could
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1 have really gotten hurt on that property. 2 So I just want it gone so that it's 3 safer. It makes me sad to see such a beautiful old 4 building in such a deteriorated state. In the year 5 and a half we were there it went downhill rapidly. So 6 I can attest to, you know, how bad it got in the last 7 year and a half when we were there. 8 I do think it's a shame, and I 9 appreciate the comments that were made by various 10 members about how it was not -- it was not properly 11 maintained to maintain it as a historic site. It was 12 obvious to me when I moved in a year and a half ago 13 that this was not going to be a building that was 14 going to be able to make it because nobody was going 15 to put the money in because it was -- it's literally 16 starting to cave in on itself. 17 So I am in support of it being gone. 18 And I think it's truly a shame that such a structure 19 would come to such demise. 20 MS. BENSON: Thank you. John, do you 21 have a question? 22 MR. BROOK: I have a question, 23 Ms. Pregel. 24 MS. PREGEL: Yes.
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1 MR. BROOK: When you decided to 2 purchase your property -- 3 MS. PREGEL: Yes. 4 MR. BROOK: -- there I assume that you 5 noticed this house before you bought your property. 6 MS. PREGEL: I moved 900 miles from the 7 Midwest. I'm a single parent, obviously older. I was 8 happy to find someplace for us to live. 9 After we moved -- I liked the fact that 10 it was an open area across from us. That was 11 wonderful. And of course I noticed the old house. I 12 didn't -- it wasn't in my high priority to figure out 13 what -- 14 MR. BROOK: So you asked no questions 15 about it? Nobody -- 16 MS. PREGEL: Not until after I moved in 17 and one of the neighbors -- 18 MR. BROOK: Then what were you told? 19 MS. PREGEL: Pardon? 20 MR. BROOK: What were you told? 21 MS. PREGEL: It's ours. We own it. 22 And -- (laughs) -- 23 MR. BROOK: Who -- 24 MS. PREGEL: A neighbor, just, you
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1 know, a neighbor that I was talking to when I finally 2 got down, you know, where, you know, I had electricity 3 and all that, you know -- 4 MR. BROOK: The developer -- you had 5 no -- you had no conversation with the developer about 6 the house? 7 MS. PREGEL: No. There is a very 8 active group on Facebook for Bayberry North, and it's 9 the residents who just make comments within that 10 group. And so I learned more from reading that way. 11 MR. BROOK: Okay. Thank you. 12 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Yes. 13 MR. CARNELLI: Can I address briefly? 14 MS. BENSON: Yes, please. 15 MR. CARNELLI: Good evening. I will 16 not repeat anything anyone else has said. My name is 17 Chris Carnelli. I'm the vice president of the 18 homeowners association of the maintenance corporation. 19 I also, as Joe said, do not speak for the community. 20 I'm speaking strictly for myself. I've lived in this 21 community five years. 22 I have been in this property, in this 23 house. I was first in it in 2014. I was last in it 24 in 2015. I fully respect your opinions about what was
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1 done from before to that point, and I can't speak to 2 it, and I don't necessarily disagree with anything you 3 said. 4 MR. BROOK: Okay. 5 MR. CARNELLI: I can only speak to 6 where we're at now. And it was my understanding, and 7 Madam Chairperson can confirm, this Board at best 8 could delay this through six more months. I don't 9 mean to be offensive or blunt, but if that's all you 10 can do, and I can understand why you would be angry by 11 this. But if that's all you can do, that does not 12 help this community. 13 Regardless of who you blame, who should 14 have done what and when and why, it wasn't done. And 15 we are here now, and the sooner we can get rid of this 16 house I do think would benefit -- it would benefit the 17 community. So thank you very much. 18 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Is there 19 anyone else who wishes to speak in favor of the 20 demolition? 21 (No audible response) 22 MS. BENSON: All right. Let me move 23 on. Does anyone want to speak against the demolition? 24 Yes, ma'am. Come forward.
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1 MS. MATSEN: My name is Alison Matsen, 2 and I represent the Middletown Historical Society. I 3 have some written comments I'd like -- and then I have 4 some copies of the -- for your records. 5 As of the 1849 Rand place map the 6 N. Appleton family lived on this spot which is now 7 surrounded by the North Bayberry development. As of 8 the 1868 year's atlas it was the J. Houston family who 9 lived here. I've twice been to inspect the property, 10 and I feel that the house itself may not now be worth 11 saving. It is nothing special architecturally and 12 unfortunately in the past 15 or so years has been 13 allowed to fall into serious disrepair. 14 However, the granary barn is worth 15 saving. It is much older than the house, in my 16 opinion. I have spent most of my life in historic 17 preservation. My husband and I have moved to historic 18 houses in order to save them from the wrecking ball. 19 Anyway, it is in good structural state. 20 It is from the mid-nineteenth century. In fact, I 21 have Xeroxes of Bernie Herman's book where -- it's 22 called Architecture and Rural Life in Central 23 Delaware, 1700-1900. And he has a drawing of -- like 24 an architectural drawing of the granary barn that's on
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1 the Cochran Grange estate from 1832, and it is 2 identical to this. So this I would say is at least 3 mid-nineteenth century. 4 It is in good structural state and is 5 from the mid-nineteenth century. It was carefully 6 made to last centuries using solid oak framing with 7 mortise and tenon joints. You can see that here. 8 There wasn't any piece of metal or nails used for the 9 framing of this building. Okay. Now there are nails 10 for the siding and for the floor but not for it -- 11 look at how straight this is. Can we take this down, 12 please? Look at how straight this is. This is not 13 listing at all. 14 Here are the pictures. Can you all 15 see? I do have another pack of pictures if you need 16 to see. There's another pack of the same pictures. 17 This is a structure way worth saving. 18 My husband and I have a smaller 19 granary. It's identical to this. Even the stairway 20 is in the exact same place. We moved into our present 21 house in the 1970s, and somebody said oh, you're going 22 to wreck that, aren't you? Well, when we went in and 23 saw that it was all made of huge oak timbers with 24 mortise and tenon, you know, and all pegged, we said
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1 no. So we put $8,000 into it. We now call it the 2 granary theater upstairs for our grandchildren, and my 3 husband uses the downstairs for storing his Model T 4 car and other things. It is a very, very useful 5 building. 6 Anyway, there are no nails or metal 7 connectors used in the framing of the barn. This barn 8 was not made to shelter animals with their attending 9 excrement. This is not a regular barn. You know, 10 you're not going to find poop from horses and cows and 11 all in this. This was a granary, and the idea was 12 down here where you see the -- where the slats don't 13 meet, they don't meet on purpose because this was for 14 the storage of corn. And the idea was to let the air 15 circulate. And anyway, then the small grains were 16 kept upstairs and the -- like I said, the corn 17 downstairs. 18 Anyway, it was made as a place to 19 thresh and store grain. The idea was you would ride 20 or, you know, have the horses and wagons come into the 21 barn and go out the other side. You would thresh 22 these on the floor of that barn and then store them 23 upstairs. There are even the original chutes, the 24 grain chutes. There's a grain chute. There's a grain
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1 chute. There's a grain chute. The original chutes 2 that were made for the grain that was stored up there 3 to then go down, you know, and then be sold maybe or 4 put into bags or whatever. It's still there. It's in 5 much better shape than the one that my husband and I 6 fixed up. 7 Anyway, it was made as a place to 8 thresh and store grain. There are three small areas 9 where the roof needs repairs. These I think have been 10 known the -- it's been in the past maybe 50 or so 11 years where there's a place right here where the metal 12 has come up from the roof. And then yes, you do have 13 some rotting in the floor. So here's where the metal 14 is gone or is lifting up, and then here there's a 15 little rot in that corner. There's also a little rot 16 over -- here, this is over the stairway. And then the 17 stairway itself is a little soft because of the metal 18 roof having lifted up. But it is really in quite good 19 shape. 20 Now there are lots of options for the 21 developer. You could actively reuse the granary barn 22 as something the community could use. 23 Now I gave a talk at Bayberry South 24 just a few days ago and talking about the history of
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1 Middletown because most of these people come from New 2 Jersey or New York or someplace, and they want to know 3 where they are now. And I was explaining about why 4 Middletown is called Middletown and the history of it. 5 And then I was mentioning this, and I 6 was telling about some of this being adaptively -- you 7 know, adaptive reuses that you could use, and somebody 8 in the back said how about an arts center. We need an 9 arts center here. There's no place around here for an 10 arts center. So you could adapt it in lots of ways. 11 A clubhouse, a small theater, an arts center, maybe 12 for yoga sessions or gym workout center. 13 Second thing you could do is rent the 14 barn out for storage. Okay. Sure, there are -- this 15 is a huge development. Surely there are some people 16 there who would love to store their, you know, classic 17 cars in there or something. Anyway, you could have 18 vehicles downstairs, boxed items upstairs. 19 Here's a third idea. You could move 20 the structure to an open space. I've driven around 21 your development. You have a lot of open space. 22 There's that whole play area, too, as you first come 23 in. 24 Now let me remind you, on the
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1 internet -- am I going too long? 2 MS. BENSON: Uh-huh. 3 MS. MATSEN: Okay. On the -- 4 MS. BENSON: And we understand -- 5 MS. MATSEN: Okay. Let me just -- 6 MS. BENSON: -- that there could be 7 adaptive -- 8 MS. MATSEN: -- say one last thing. On 9 the internet, the Bayberry community is advertised as 10 a place, let me quote, "where you feel you are in a 11 small town from a bygone era." That's your words on 12 your website. Keeping this barn would at least give 13 an actual connection to that past. At the very least, 14 you could at least sell it to somebody like the Amish 15 who would gladly come in, dismantle it and set it up 16 someplace else. Thank you. 17 MR. BROOK: Thank you. 18 MS. BENSON: Now is there anyone else 19 who wishes to speak on this side of the case? 20 MR. CANECO: Good afternoon. Ladies 21 and gentlemen, my name is Kevin Caneco. I am a 22 Bayberry resident, and I also see this farmhouse from 23 my porch every day. I live very close to the 24 farmhouse and am deeply affected by its future.
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1 And let me say I'll be the first to say 2 that nobody wants to be here tonight, nobody. And the 3 only reason we're here tonight having this discussion, 4 the residents are arguing with each other back and 5 forth about what we should do with this, is because of 6 two things, either incompetence by the developer or 7 straight out lies by the developer. Either of them 8 are concerning to me. 9 And we have seen a pattern that's been 10 laid out in the record. We have the 2003 application, 11 note number two on the front of the application, 12 "Create two historic structure lots and to save 13 existing farm structures as noted." In 2010 there was 14 another plan that was submitted that created the 15 preservation of the structure. And in 2014 they still 16 thought they could preserve the structure. 17 Today we're now, as residents, in a 18 pickle where we're stuck with these -- do we have a 19 house that we -- might be a blight on the community? 20 You know, Jay, I agree with what you said. I think 21 there is a blight right now and that's a shame. And 22 to everybody that says it's a blight, I can't deny 23 that. But it's none of the residents' fault. It is 24 Blenheim's responsibility for allowing it to
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1 deteriorate. 2 And they have allowed it over a number 3 of years, and they're going to blame teenagers? A 4 multimillion-dollar development can't stop some 14- 5 and 15-year-olds from messing with their plan? 6 Really? That's what we're going to talk about 7 tonight? 8 We've already heard testimony saying 9 that it is historic from Blenheim officials. At our 10 town hall meeting or lake house meeting we've had 11 Blenheim officials say it was their intent to preserve 12 it. We've heard it. And now they're going to throw 13 up their arms and say sorry, nothing we can do. 14 Well, what about that last year or the 15 year before that or the year before that or the year 16 before that or the year before that? We've already 17 heard testimony here today that there were -- people 18 were able to get over the fence. So did they secure 19 it properly? Absolutely not. And now they're here 20 today asking to demolish it. 21 And they put me and my family and my 22 young daughter at risk because yes, it has become 23 somewhat of a nuisance due to their irresponsibility. 24 They broke a pledge with the people of Middletown,
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1 this county and this community. And they tell us at 2 meetings well, we don't have the funds and we never -- 3 and I have it on tape where Blenheim officials said we 4 never created a budget to restore this home. But they 5 went before you in 2004, they went before the county 6 in 2008, 2010, said oh, we're going to preserve it. 7 So again, incompetence or straight out 8 lies. That's concerning because at no time they had a 9 budget to preserve it, then we all know what this is, 10 demolition by neglect. This was always the plan. And 11 if they can't then after 15 years I think we're just 12 dealing with incompetence for a company that wants to 13 do business with the county in the future. Maybe some 14 of the county officials in the room should take that 15 in consideration. 16 But I'll be damned if I'm going to hear 17 about a bunch of 15- and 16-year-olds are the reason 18 this home is the way it is. And you know what, I have 19 to watch my daughter talk about graffiti on the house. 20 Did they take action? Did they cover it up? Did they 21 make any improvements? Did they make any repairs? 22 Nope. Business as usual. Keep on going until we get 23 to a point where we piss off the residents of Audubon 24 Trail and say oh, there's nothing we can do now.
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1 They should be ashamed of themselves 2 tonight telling me we don't have the funds to restore 3 it. How about we take out some of the funds that 4 Blenheim and other developers give to county officials 5 and politicians and put some of that money to 6 preservation. But you won't hear that. You won't see 7 that happen. 8 And now they put us in a pickle where 9 they want the five more homes, and I understand that's 10 another concern in a subdivision. But this is 11 concerning to me that we allow developers in this 12 county to get away with this stuff. 13 So we may not be able to save this 14 home. That's the reality. That's the reality, Greg. 15 That's the reality, Joe, and I get it. But I hope, I 16 hope tonight is the start of something different, that 17 we have county code that's amended where we can hold 18 people responsible, where we can begin maintenance 19 when developers make deals. Cost of doing business, 20 hold you to your promises. That's what needs to be 21 done. 22 And I will also point out there are a 23 lot of people in my development that have voiced 24 strong opposition to this plan. They voiced
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1 opposition at a lake house meeting that Blenheim 2 officials basically fumbled through trying to kick out 3 members of the media and other county officials 4 because they know what they're doing was wrong, and 5 they know they're in a bad position. And I think that 6 we should hold them accountable for that. 7 County code has allowed this to happen, 8 and I challenge the people that work in county 9 government here to make sure we straighten that and 10 change that moving ahead. It's vital. 11 And you know, somebody had said what's 12 the historical significance of this? You go south to 13 C&D Canal, farm homes, nineteenth-century structures 14 are evaporating. Call me crazy, but I think every 15 farmhouse that's built in the nineteenth century has 16 some value, that connects us the future and the past, 17 that we have a moment where we can look at it and say 18 wow, we're connected. We value those hardworking 19 farmers that came in and worked and still work to this 20 day because this also is slap in the face to the 21 farming community. 22 So I'm a little hot tonight, and I 23 apologize for that. But when I see something like 24 this happen, my passion for my family's future, for
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1 Middletown's future takes over. 2 And I'll leave you with this tonight. 3 I, as I said, sat on the porch, and I remember sitting 4 with my young daughter. And we watched the sunset 5 right over the Houston House with the big chimneys. I 6 saw what a beautiful sight to see blend of the old and 7 the new and what a shame it would be if we ever lost 8 that. And today, we're forced in a position where 9 we're going to lose that. And I hope if we can't save 10 this house that we can say at least county code and 11 county regulations moving forward. We need to. Our 12 future depends upon it. Thank you. 13 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Do we have any 14 other people who wish to speak? Yes, sir. Come 15 forward, please. 16 MR. SHELTON: Hello. My name is Greg 17 Shelton, and I want to say thank you for allowing me 18 to say a couple words. I will do my best to not talk 19 as much as what Kevin said because he's already stated 20 an amazing case for the passion. 21 I have the exact same passion that 22 Kevin has. My wife Dawn and myself restored a 23 historic property on Delaware on Denny Road by the 24 name of Poplar Hall. That was the same situation with
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1 a developer that was buying a property, 180-acre farm, 2 with an existing farmhouse. 3 When we found the house, it was vacant 4 for nine years when it was purchased. Trees were 5 growing on the ground. We could barely see the house. 6 When my wife Dawn and I drove around to see it, she 7 wanted me to see the house because she had a friend 8 that lived in one of the sections of the house. I 9 looked through the trees, and I said oh, my gosh, that 10 is a piece of Delaware history. It's a brick and 11 fieldstone house, and it turned out to be built in the 12 1780s. Okay. Dirt floor basement, terrible 13 disrepair. 14 So when we talk about a 1780s home, on 15 the National Registry as Poplar Hall that was left for 16 dead, and we talk about an 1880 structure that's 17 140 years old, well, there's a big difference there, 18 don't you think? My wife and I restored the whole 19 house. My father and I worked to fix the electricity, 20 do the floors, did all the plumbing. We put on a 21 roof. It had five existing outbuildings. They were 22 also restored. And that takes a lot of money but more 23 hard work than anything. 24 What we did with that is the homes that
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1 border us -- there is a home development called 2 Belden, and that was named after the family that owned 3 the house for I think 70 or 80 years. Since we 4 restored the property, we have made relationships with 5 the Belden community and the Bay Pointe community 6 which is also a Blenheim-built structures. 7 We put on for the last two years a 8 European-style Christmas market on our farm to educate 9 families of Delaware, Chesapeake City and Pennsylvania 10 with 30 to 40 handmade artisans, a chef from 11 Wilmington, music, Christmas tree farm and a chance to 12 educate these people of what historic structure is and 13 why it's so damn important to keep them because when 14 Blenheim found that property again, not to go back 15 because it was already stated incredibly well by Kevin 16 and team members, that that was a historic property 17 that was supposed to be saved. But really, there was 18 not an ounce of money really put to preserve that 19 place. It was to stop the rain and let it -- and let 20 it die. So there was an initial plan I would imagine 21 eventually to see that house through. 22 And this team is the team that should 23 hold them to their word. If this team cannot hold 24 developers to their word, what in the hell good is it
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1 because Delaware's history is so incredibly important. 2 And I'm a Maryland guy that came to 3 Delaware, and I love the state, and I love the 4 architecture, and it is the home that we're going to 5 live in forever. We have a single son, and we've done 6 it, and we've shown proof that it can be done. If you 7 hold everyone to their word and their contracts there 8 are people that will buy this house. 9 And I have not been in the structure, 10 and I feel bad for the families that live there, and I 11 can totally understand why they want it flattened out. 12 But it's only again, like they said, it's because it's 13 been left for dead. And that's not the community's 14 fault. 15 And I actually don't believe -- and I 16 have not been in there, but no structure is -- no 17 structure needs to be demolished. Things can be done, 18 and I think this team is the group to do it. And I 19 would hope that you're able to consider that. So 20 thank you very much. 21 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 22 MR. SHELTON: You're very welcome. 23 Thank you. 24 MS. BENSON: Yes, ma'am.
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1 COUNCILWOMAN DURHAM: Good evening. My 2 name is Dee Durham, I -- former executive director of 3 Preservation Delaware. I'm not sure I really need to 4 say much. I think a lot has been said already, and I 5 really thank all the comments that have been made so 6 far in support of keeping the structure. 7 This to me represents death by a 8 thousand cuts, and it was well discussed earlier. And 9 I just -- echoing the comments that were just made. I 10 think it's just ludicrous to me to sit here and hear 11 an expert say that it's not a preeminent property, or 12 no significant events took place there. I think 13 coming before the wrong body to try to claim that this 14 property is not eligible for the National Register 15 even if it's not yet on the Register but that's 16 just -- it just -- it's not an argument to be made to 17 accept its demolition. 18 I think we all know that where there's 19 a -- where there's a will there's a way. And 20 obviously the will has not been here. But I am also a 21 councilmember of District 2 in New Castle County, and 22 I can tell you, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you, 23 you all know there are many, many examples of historic 24 houses that have been incorporated into subdivisions
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1 all over the county. And to try to claim that it's 2 not possible here is just ridiculous. 3 So I think my question rhetorically 4 perhaps to Pam is, you know, why weren't you here back 5 in March, and also why have you not contracted with 6 CHAD to document the property at the very least, 7 although I do not think that's an adequate solution by 8 any means. But at the very least that should be 9 taking place. 10 I would also ask, you know, if there's 11 a will there, a serious commitment to trying to find a 12 solution here to keep the property, why not put it on 13 the market? I think your comments, Ms. Anderson, 14 about having -- I just had to laugh -- the visual 15 image of construction workers surrounding the property 16 every day for several years probably and not one thing 17 being done to the property is spot on. 18 So why don't you try to market the 19 property? Was it ever tried to be marketed? I think 20 you'd be surprised. I'm on many LISTSERVs and 21 Facebook groups and whatnot for historic properties. 22 I'd be happy to throw it up there and see if it would 23 get some interest. 24 Anyway, I just had to go speak my mind,
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1 but I thank you all for listening. Thank you for your 2 comments, and thank you all for what you do. And yes, 3 believe me, we are trying to do what we can to 4 strengthen the ordinances moving forward, so welcome 5 your comments on that. 6 MS. BENSON: Yes? 7 COUNCILMAN CARTER: Thank you. I'm 8 Councilman Carter of -- freshman councilman. I've 9 only been on for about seven months. But I did indeed 10 visit this site in 2003 with Tim Plemmons of Delaware 11 Greenways during a heated debate over the development. 12 The community of course was split and during -- at 13 that time the community character hearing, you've 14 heard about community character, in an overflowing 15 council chamber. Okay. There were so many people in 16 there that many were out in the hallway and couldn't 17 get in. 18 One of the few things that we walked 19 out and the community -- at that time I was a civic 20 activist -- at that time felt we had won was to 21 preserve a little bit of our community character. We 22 went repeatedly to those hearings and were told well, 23 what are you talking about community character? We 24 don't have any community character. We're going to
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1 develop it. We said no, you're going to change it. 2 That doesn't mean you should erase the history. 3 I think it's really unfortunate. I 4 came here really just to make general comments 5 particularly about the code and to share with you two 6 emails that had gone back and I sent to the general 7 manager and assistant manager about my concerns and to 8 some other staff and the response that pointed out 9 some issues with the code. 10 I did hear something really compelling 11 to me tonight about the condition of the barn. I 12 don't know -- I have to leave it up to the 13 professional expertise on this committee of whether 14 these can be restored or not. But it does sound like 15 that barn can, and for God's sake, that's important. 16 And if we can't preserve it, and we can find the 17 funds, maybe I can talk to my county public works 18 folks. We just announced the location of a park. 19 We're going to begin design. Maybe we can move it and 20 preserve it as part of the county property. 21 We have done a horrible job of a 22 county-owned property called the Armistice up on Marl 23 Pit Road that breaks my heart every day that I drive 24 by the demolition, you know, the way it's --
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1 I would have liked to have seen a much 2 clearer record of trying to maintain this property. 3 It didn't occur and I agree it's unfortunate the 4 condition that the community is in. That's a tough 5 call you guys have to make. 6 But going forward, there are some 7 things that I'm going to need your help with, and I 8 believe this record will help me and be an important 9 case study for me moving forward. That's why I want 10 to put these two emails into your record. 11 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 12 COUNCILMAN CARTER: I do believe that 13 we need to have a process that any time we put a plan 14 into a record plan that we immediately require the 15 starting of its review for a historic overlay. The 16 day it's recorded and becomes a separate parcel for 17 historic preservation I want that review started. I 18 want that process going through. 19 The second thing I really think we're 20 going to need in the code is requiring that any time 21 we put one of these into our record plan that we 22 require a detailed maintenance and management plan be 23 written and approved by our county staff and adhered 24 to with an annual inspection. We desperately need
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1 that. We can't allow this to happen, and we have to 2 find a way to fix it. And I think the code is the way 3 to do it. 4 And if that annual inspection in two 5 consecutive years shows negligence in meeting those 6 demands, I want us to stop issuing permits for that 7 development. I want consequences. 8 I don't know whether these are 9 feasible. You all have a lot more experience dealing 10 with this than I do. But I will be seeking your 11 assistance. We have begun drafting code. I'm working 12 with our county attorney now. I'll hopefully very 13 soon be able to have something to get additional 14 comments from our Land Use Department, and then I will 15 need your help. 16 So I want you to consider the 17 community. I know they've worked closely with the 18 Bayberry community, but prior to that there was a big 19 community that hasn't been included so much until the 20 opportunity tonight that is kind of forgotten, that 21 wasn't addressed. 22 And if you can't restore the house, if 23 it is that far gone, I hope we won't be rewarding that 24 type of activity, whether it was just something we
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1 didn't pay enough attention to or whatever. But I 2 really worry about the precedent. And if we have to 3 demolish it if that's the condition, I am concerned 4 about them coming back for five more houses because 5 that sends a message that concerns me countywide. 6 Record plans should mean something. 7 I think, and you guys may as well, I 8 think I'm going to ask for a legal opinion from Bill 9 Davis on what it really means for a record plan. Is 10 it the law? Isn't it the law? When should it stop? 11 Should that indeed trump some of our other 12 requirements and processes or shouldn't it? Not that 13 I think it's going to show there's any more power or 14 authority here but because it will give me a little 15 bit more legal clarity on what we need to fix to avoid 16 this situation. 17 What I'm going to do is walking out of 18 here, whatever happens here, if it is too late, I want 19 to -- something good to come out of this and that is 20 to improve the way we handle these. And I'll need all 21 of your help for that. 22 And based on what I heard tonight also, 23 I hope you will take a good, hard look at that barn. 24 I hope that Blenheim developers will look at that, and
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1 if it's something that is restorable, is in good shape 2 that they don't want, will they consider working with 3 the county to see whether it is possible -- whether it 4 is possible to maybe incorporate it into our county 5 park in some way and I haven't -- just heard this. I 6 haven't talked to my manager of our parks or anything 7 else yet. I just don't want to lose it. 8 So thank you for letting me indulge in 9 this and let's just -- I hope you'll help me. I just 10 want something positive to come out of this regardless 11 of what happens in this individual situation. 12 MS. BENSON: Thank you and thank you 13 for your efforts. Thank you for the record. 14 Anything else to comment -- yes, sir. 15 COUNCILMAN BELL: Yes, ma'am. 16 MS. BENSON: Please come forward. 17 COUNCILMAN BELL: Madam Chair, members 18 of the Board, my name is Bill Bell, and I'm a New 19 Castle County councilman from the 12th District of 20 which Bayberry -- the development of Bayberry resides. 21 I come before you this evening and I want to thank you 22 for the opportunity to appear before you, I come 23 before you this evening as a result of both the 24 president and vice president of the homeowners
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1 association and a few of the residents that have 2 brought to my attention the public safety issue from 3 the standpoint of the structure and its condition. 4 I serve as the co-chair of the Council 5 Public Safety Committee. I've spent over 53 years of 6 active service in our New Castle County volunteer fire 7 service of which I served as fire chief for 11 years. 8 I have served as the chief of the 911 emergency 9 communications for 21 years before retiring after 10 30 years from the county. And I currently am the 11 administrative coordinator for the Delaware River Bay 12 Authority Police Department. I've been there for 21 13 years now. Started working when I was six. 14 But, you know, the thing about this is 15 that I am not here to address the past or what wasn't 16 done, what could have been done up to this point. But 17 what I ask you as far as your deliberations and your 18 consideration is the life safety, the public safety of 19 the residents, their children and their grandchildren 20 and visitors to the community that might wander over 21 to this property and get hurt. 22 Unfortunately, one of the problems that 23 we have with vacant problems -- or properties 24 throughout New Castle County is they end up finding
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1 vagrants, folks that use them for unlawful purposes. 2 And so you can never rule out not just from a 3 standpoint of structural collapse but a fire. 4 So this evening, like I say, as co- 5 chair of the Public Safety Committee for Council, a 6 longtime public safety servant and in speaking with 7 the president and vice president, I ask that you take 8 into consideration the public safety and life safety 9 of this particular property. 10 MS. BENSON: Thank you very much. 11 COUNCILMAN BELL: Okay. I thank you, 12 Madam Chair. Thank you very much. 13 MALE SPEAKER: If I may get 14 clarification -- get clarification while the record's 15 open that there's been no vote by the maintenance 16 corporation on this matter? He is speaking -- 17 MS. BENSON: No. You really can't. 18 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. 19 MS. BENSON: Sorry. 20 Have we run through everyone in the 21 audience? 22 (No audible response) 23 MS. BENSON: Ms. -- 24 MS. SCOTT: May I make a few very brief
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1 comments? 2 MS. BENSON: Brief comments, please. 3 REBUTTAL 4 MS. SCOTT: Thank you. I think during 5 the course of my presentation and in direct response 6 to Mr. Brook's comment, I acknowledged that this was 7 probably not a place we wanted to be today, and we 8 probably should have come here sooner if we were 9 unable to proceed with preserving the house and the 10 granary. 11 I disagree with a number of comments 12 that were made by Mr. Caneco. We did not break a 13 pledge. It was our intent when we came here in 2004 14 to retain the structure, the house, the granary, and 15 to do something with it. Unfortunately, over time 16 things change. Circumstances change, markets change, 17 a lot of things change. 18 And I applaud the efforts of Mr. and 19 Mrs. Shelton for what they have done at Poplar Hall, 20 but Poplar Hall is a lot different than a three-acre 21 lot in the middle of a 951-lot subdivision. 22 There were no lies made on behalf of 23 Blenheim, and I really, really, really resent the fact 24 that that allegation was made. We have approached
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1 this project from day one in good faith and with the 2 right intent. Unfortunately, at this point in time we 3 do feel like we don't have a lot of choice but to take 4 the house and the granary down. As I said before, 5 should we have made that decision sooner? Absolutely 6 we should have but we did not. 7 When asked the question at the question 8 at the community meeting did we budget funds for this 9 house the response was no. That doesn't mean we 10 didn't intend to, if we were going to proceed with 11 doing something with the house we wouldn't have worked 12 to put funds together to do that. 13 I don't think this is a slap in the 14 face to the farming community. We spent a lot of 15 years with the Baker family who has farmed that area 16 for a very, very, very long time and have spent a lot 17 of time working with them. We spent a lot of time -- 18 not that this is necessarily directly relevant to the 19 historic house, but we did a transfer of development 20 rights to preserve another farm in another part of the 21 county so that that wouldn't be developed, so lands 22 within this area could be developed to the density for 23 which they were approved. 24 Notes on plans change all the time.
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1 And this is not the first time that someone has come 2 before you and indicated that they were planning to 3 save a structure and come back and say that they are 4 not able to do it. Again, I regret that circumstances 5 are what they are, but here we are. We don't want to 6 leave this eyesore in the community. We would like to 7 address it, and we'd like to do it sooner rather than 8 later. 9 Of course we would be more than happy 10 to document the house. I mean, that's without 11 question. We'd be more than happy to do that. 12 We've also talked about the possibility 13 of photographs within -- there is a lake house. It's 14 a community facility within Bayberry North that is 15 used by the residents. We've talked about the 16 possibility of documenting with photographs and other 17 things, including the documentation for the house, 18 having that within the lake house so that residents 19 can review it. So we would -- more than happy to do 20 that so people have a sense of the history of this 21 particular area. 22 Thank you very much. 23 MS. BENSON: Thank you. All right. We 24 have one more item on the agenda.
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1 (Asides as people are leaving.) 2 MS. BENSON: Okay. 3 APPLICATION 2019-0919-S 4 MS. CAULFIELD: All right. Our last 5 application for the evening is Application 6 2019-0919-S, 265 Bear-Christiana Road located on the 7 east side of Bear-Christiana Road, south of the 8 intersection with School Bell Road. Tax Parcel 9 10-028.00-034. New Castle Hundred. This is an 10 Exploratory Minor Subdivision Plan to construct a 11 3,780 square foot addition on the existing clubhouse, 12 construct a 3,800 square foot maintenance building, 13 and expand parking area that's located adjacent to 14 Silver Farmhouse, which has been determined eligible 15 for the National Register of Historic Places, 16 constructed 1882. NCap Zoning. Council District 1. 17 MS. BENSON: Thank you. Would somebody 18 please give their name and begin the presentation. 19 MR. FASCIOLA: I'm Carmine Fasciola 20 (ph). I'm one of the owners of the complex. 21 MR. ZIEGLER: I'm Mark Ziegler. I'm 22 with McBride & Ziegler. Our firm prepared the plan. 23 MR. BURCHAM: I am Gary Burcham. I am 24 a landscape architect and I worked on the --
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1 MR. ZIEGLER: So I'll start out by 2 giving -- 3 MS. BENSON: Yes. 4 MR. ZIEGLER: -- just a brief overview. 5 Christiana Meadows is a 30-year-old apartment complex 6 developed in the late '80s. It's 50 -- it's 7 approximately 50 acres of 650 units. It's directly 8 across Route 7. It's right across from Delap (ph) 9 maintenance yard. 10 We're proposing a 3,700 square foot 11 expansion right here. And right there is the historic 12 farmhouse. There's also a maintenance building being 13 proposed. And Christiana Meadows is expanding the 14 clubhouse in order to stay competitive. And we're not 15 touching the farmhouse. This follow-up right here and 16 Gary's going to cover a little more about the impacts 17 to the clubhouse or to the farmhouse. 18 This shows the expansion of the 19 clubhouse right here. This is the existing clubhouse, 20 and this is the 3,700 square foot expansion. Here is 21 Delaware Route 7, and this is the farmhouse. So 22 essentially there's parking in the front right here. 23 But because of the expansion we're going to make a 24 left, and then we're going to expand the parking lot
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1 out. And we are proposing no structural changes, no 2 cosmetic changes to the building whatsoever. It's 3 currently a sales office. It's well maintained. 4 And Gary -- in order to offset the 5 impacts of the parking lot we have proposed some 6 landscaping. And Gary is going to discuss the 7 landscaping. 8 MR. BURCHAM: Where could you all see 9 this best, right here? 10 FEMALE SPEAKER: Wherever you want. 11 MR. BURCHAM: That's what I was 12 thinking. So how about if I do this right here, okay. 13 Now these are the existing conditions 14 of the site. I'm going to put these right next to 15 this so you can see the two plans. Currently what we 16 have is a parking lot that extends straight on back 17 with the existing building here. That would be this 18 section of the parking lot that would extend all the 19 way back to here. And the addition is this portion 20 right in here. And the parking is being reconfigured 21 so that it goes behind the building. 22 Now looking at photograph one, that is 23 taken from Route 7 looking directly into the historic 24 structure, and back over here is where the existing
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1 clubhouse is. Picture two is from here, from Bear- 2 Christiana Road looking at the building. Picture 3 three is at the intersection of Christiana Meadows 4 Roads and Route 7, and that is this picture right 5 here. 6 And as you can see, this building is a 7 historical structure that has -- it's vernacular type 8 of construction I think more than anything else. And 9 I am by no means a historic expert. But my job as a 10 landscape architect is to recognize nice things and to 11 provide a setting for it, to provide a framing so that 12 this building doesn't get lost in the whole shuffle. 13 Now picture four, which is right here, 14 gives you a better indication of how that building 15 looks. It's moving closer. And five is from this 16 point right here looking directly at it. And you can 17 see more detail of the building and how it is already 18 very well framed and set off from its surroundings. 19 Now in our construction the only thing 20 that will really be changing is this tree right here 21 is going to be removed. The parking lot will extend 22 back through here. But we are taking out this tree, 23 as I said, but we're going to replant with a screen of 24 evergreens that will in essence restore what you have
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1 framing the building in little time because the single 2 holly that's being taken out is going to be replaced 3 by six hollies and 15 shrubs so that what you see now 4 is essentially what you will see very shortly. 5 Picture six is taken from the parking 6 lot looking at the other side of the building. And 7 where is that? Hold a sec. And once again, what you 8 see right here is not changing. From this side you 9 can't even see the holly that's being removed. So 10 virtually nothing is really going to change in terms 11 of the view from this section of the building. 12 Photograph seven is taken -- 13 FEMALE SPEAKER: Can't see them. 14 MR. BURCHAM: Oh, I'm sorry. 15 Photograph seven has been taken from across the 16 parking lot where the clubhouse is looking at this 17 shaft of space. And we've taken that because the 18 proposed sidewalk is going to run down through here, 19 and the parking is being moved back to the back side 20 of the building. And this is that holly that's being 21 removed and replaced. 22 And finally eight, photograph number 23 eight, shows the east side -- east side of the 24 building, yes, the east side of the building and the
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1 current parking situation and the holly that's being 2 removed. 3 So what we have going on is really an 4 exchange of one plant for a variety of different 5 plants in generally the same location that is going to 6 be framing the building and creating the kind of 7 setting that you want for a structure of this nature 8 so that it's well set off from its surroundings. 9 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 10 FEMALE SPEAKER: So in photo eight -- 11 MR. BURCHAM: Yes. 12 FEMALE SPEAKER: -- there's like a 13 large green area. So if I'm looking at it from this 14 east elevation then -- 15 MR. BURCHAM: Okay. That would be 16 looking right here. 17 FEMALE SPEAKER: Looking that way. 18 MR. BURCHAM: Yes. 19 FEMALE SPEAKER: So that lawn is going 20 to be removed, and it's going to be a parking lot 21 on -- when I'm looking -- 22 MR. BURCHAM: It already is a parking 23 lot. The parking lot is already -- it's already to 24 there.
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1 FEMALE SPEAKER: So it's just going to 2 be pushed back. 3 MR. BURCHAM: So it's just taking that 4 and pulling it back. 5 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. 6 MR. BURCHAM: And this is the location 7 of that existing holly, and what we're putting in is 8 additional hollies here and additional hollies here so 9 that as you look through this you're going to have a 10 continuous screen of green that just sort of wraps 11 around and separates that building and creates a green 12 backdrop for it and really frames it. 13 MS. BENSON: John? 14 MR. BROOK: Yes. John Brook. Which is 15 the new part of the building that you're building? 16 MR. BURCHAM: That's all down here. 17 MR. BROOK: Which color, the dark? 18 MS. BENSON: The dark. 19 MR. BURCHAM: The dark part, yes. 20 MR. BROOK: That one? They're what, 21 three pieces then? Is that what -- you're putting 22 three additions on; is that what you're saying? 23 MR. BURCHAM: No. This is the 24 additional -- this is the existing building right
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1 here. And then these parts -- 2 MR. BROOK: Three parts. 3 MR. BURCHAM: Yeah. 4 MR. BROOK: Okay. 5 FEMALE SPEAKER: It wraps the inside -- 6 MR. BROOK: Yeah. Okay. I see what he 7 means. Yeah. 8 MS. BENSON: Okay. Do we have 9 questions, more questions? John? 10 MR. BROOK: What do they look like, the 11 additions? 12 MR. BURCHAM: I haven't -- 13 MR. ZIEGLER: They're not totally -- 14 MR. BROOK: They're not designed yet? 15 MR. ZIEGLER: -- designed yet. 16 MR. BURCHAM: Yes. 17 MR. ZIEGLER: But I believe in the same 18 nature of the brick building that's already there. 19 MR. BROOK: Okay. 20 MR. ZIEGLER: There's going to be some 21 outside seating. There may be a fire pit. There's 22 going to be a library, video room type thing. 23 MR. BROOK: The reason I asked that 24 question is to try to determine whether it would
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1 detract from the historic structure, and without being 2 able to see it I don't know. 3 MS. BENSON: John? 4 MR. BROOK: Just so I'm clear, is the 5 building that's being added onto historic? 6 MR. BURCHAM: No. 7 FEMALE SPEAKER: No. 8 MR. BROOK: Okay. 9 MR. BURCHAM: It is this building over 10 here, and this is the historic site. 11 MR. BROOK: Right. It's only the piece 12 sitting there, right there -- 13 MR. BURCHAM: Yes. Yeah. 14 MR. BROOK: -- to the top of the page. 15 Okay. And you say the historic structure is being 16 maintained in good condition? 17 MR. BURCHAM: Oh, it's used as an 18 office. 19 MR. BROOK: Okay. 20 MR. BURCHAM: As an office for the -- 21 MR. BROOK: Will that use continue? 22 MR. ZIEGLER: Yes. 23 MS. BENSON: Okay. More questions? 24 (No audible response)
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1 MS. BENSON: Thank you very much. 2 (Asides) 3 FEMALE SPEAKER: I have one. I don't 4 think that new -- this sheet here, was that submitted? 5 MR. BURCHAM: The colored version? The 6 colored version is not. 7 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. But that sheet? 8 MR. BURCHAM: But this sheet, yes. 9 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. 10 MR. BURCHAM: Yeah. It's in a black 11 and white -- 12 MALE SPEAKER: Thank you. 13 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 14 MALE SPEAKER: Thank you. 15 MS. BENSON: All right. Report of the 16 preservation planner? 17 MS. CAULFIELD: I don't have anything 18 for you tonight. 19 MS. BENSON: Public comment? 20 (No audible response) 21 MS. BENSON: Hearing none, I will 22 entertain a motion for adjournment. 23 MR. BROOK: I move we adjourn. 24 FEMALE SPEAKER: I move we adjourn.
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1 MS. BENSON: Second? 2 FEMALE SPEAKER: I second the motion 3 that we adjourn. 4 MS. BENSON: All in favor? 5 (Ayes indicated) 6 MS. BENSON: Motion carries. Thank you 7 very much. 8 (Proceedings concluded at 6:50 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 2 I, Karen Ehatt, certify that the foregoing 3 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 4 proceedings. 5 6 <%14612,Signature%> 7 ______8 Karen Ehatt (AAERT CET-574) 9 Certified Electronic Transcriber 10 11 12 Date: July 15, 2019 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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& 1960 28:12 21 3:6 28:13 83:9 742 9:11 15:15 & 2:9 88:22 1970s 61:21 83:12 751 9:9 10:14 2203 21:24 755 25:22 0 2 2244 54:10 2 11:13 75:21 8 08-047.00-039 7:8 265 88:6 20 26:20 28:16 8,000 62:1 0804700-031 3 15:24 2001 28:22 32:6,8 80 73:3 2002 10:11 3 11:23 80s 89:6 1 2003 10:12 22:20 3,700 89:10,20 84 14:6 1 9:7 15:24 88:16 25:5 39:3 66:10 3,780 88:11 85 3:8 10-028.00-034. 77:10 3,800 88:12 87 1:5 88:9 2004 22:21 23:7 30 73:10 83:10 88 3:9 11 83:7 28:2,23 31:3 89:5 9 12 22:8 25:2 55:8 32:11 36:10,13,16 30s 10:15 9 7:11 12th 82:19 39:24 68:5 85:13 30th 10:5 900 23:10 57:6 13-008.34-010. 2007 10:22 25:6,10 35 18:18 911 83:8 22:3 25:12 27:1 4 950 25:22 14 67:4 2007-2008 25:14 4 3:4 951 85:21 140 72:17 2008 10:23 14:19 40 73:10 14612 99:6 27:8 31:7 32:11 a 40312ag 12:17 15 5:10 10:12 40:5 68:6 aaert 99:8 48 3:7 13:15,21,21 36:20 2009 28:24 45:9 ability 13:24 29:17 4th 53:17,18 36:20 37:1 43:8 2010 23:12 29:10 29:20 60:12 67:5 68:11 31:8,20 66:13 5 able 27:5 43:14 68:17 92:3 99:12 68:6 50 63:10 89:6,7 52:11 56:14 67:18 16 68:17 2013 29:11 45:15 53 83:5 69:13 74:19 80:13 1700-1900 60:23 45:21 46:7,8,9 574 99:8 87:4 96:2 1780s 72:12,14 47:9,12 5:00 1:7 4:5 absolutely 27:6 18 1:6 2014 58:23 66:15 5:01 4:5 67:19 86:5 180 72:1 2015 58:24 6 accept 75:17 1832 61:1 access 29:18,21 2016 51:4 63 48:20 1849 60:5 accountable 70:6 2017 51:11 650 89:7 1868 60:8 accurate 99:3 2019 1:6 4:5 33:24 6:50 98:8 1880 22:7 72:16 acknowledged 45:22 46:1,18 6th 38:11 1882 88:16 99:12 85:6 7 18th 4:5 2019-02592 2:3 acquire 31:7 1929 10:16 18:16 3:6 21:21,23 7 3:5 89:8,21 acquired 23:16,17 18:18 2019-06424 2:1 90:23 91:4 acre 72:1 85:20 1935 7:10 10:16 3:5 7:5,17 70 73:3 acres 89:7 1952 28:8 2019-0919 2:7 3:9 734 7:5 9:4,9 acted 8:18 1956 11:8 88:3,6 10:16 15:9,15 action 68:20
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[active - associates] Page 2
active 38:8 58:8 afternoon 65:20 anybody 21:1,4 approximate 83:6 agenda 5:8 6:21 25:13 40:21 47:22 18:14 actively 63:21 87:24 54:15 approximately activist 77:20 ago 8:18 13:15 anyway 13:19 89:7 activities 24:18,19 15:22 43:8 56:12 60:19 62:6,15,18 april 10:5 51:16 activity 80:24 63:24 63:7 64:17 76:24 architect 45:24 actual 65:13 agree 48:16 66:20 apartment 89:5 46:18 88:24 91:10 adapt 64:10 79:3 apologize 70:23 architects 36:1 adapted 12:22,23 agreement 44:19 apparent 34:16 architectural 33:3 12:24 44:22 45:1 appear 18:5 47:5 60:24 adaptive 64:7 65:7 ahead 11:15 13:23 82:22 architecturally adaptively 64:6 39:19 70:10 appears 46:5 47:4 17:21 60:11 added 96:5 aia 1:11 applaud 85:18 architecture 36:2 addition 15:6 air 62:14 apple 39:23,24 60:22 74:4 88:11 90:19 alison 2:17 60:1 40:12 area 23:20 26:15 additional 80:13 allegation 85:24 appleton 60:6 28:7 29:12,12 94:8,8,24 allow 69:11 80:1 applicant 5:9,13 35:20,21 38:19 additionally 52:4 allowed 41:3,3,4 6:3,3 7:13 13:2 42:21 45:16 46:10 additions 94:22 60:13 67:2 70:7 22:9,13 23:11,18 57:10 64:22 86:15 95:11 allowing 66:24 28:3 52:15 86:22 87:21 88:13 address 6:9 58:13 71:17 applicant's 6:13 93:13 83:15 87:7 allows 8:10 22:10 areas 63:8 addressed 51:20 amazing 71:20 application 2:1,3,7 arguing 66:4 80:21 amended 69:17 3:5,6,9 5:4 7:3,4 argument 75:16 adequate 55:12 amish 65:14 7:17 8:11,12 15:2 armistice 78:22 76:7 amount 11:19 21:2,20,21,23,23 arms 67:13 adhered 79:23 20:3 23:20 29:8 22:14,14 66:10,11 artisans 73:10 adjacent 88:13 45:6 88:3,5,5 arts 64:8,9,10,11 adjourn 97:23,24 anderson 1:11 apply 12:17 47:11 asbestos 11:19,20 98:3 4:12,12 19:2,5,9 appreciate 21:10 20:4,6,8,13 adjournment 19:12,18,21,23 41:17 56:9 ashamed 69:1 97:22 20:2,7,10,14 44:16 approach 34:13 asides 88:1 97:2 administrative 44:18 47:16 76:13 approached 9:22 asked 6:12 16:10 83:11 angry 59:10 85:24 17:7 57:14 86:7 adults 51:6 animals 62:8 approval 9:4 31:3 95:23 adverse 41:6 anne 35:18 41:22 asking 67:20 advertised 65:9 announced 78:18 approve 51:23 assistance 80:11 aerial 37:16 annual 79:24 80:4 52:8 assistant 78:7 affect 5:4 answer 6:4 13:24 approved 25:3 associated 37:11 affiliation 6:9 19:13 53:6,7 40:1 43:24 79:23 associates 33:13 86:23
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[association - blenheim] Page 3
association 58:18 43:14 46:4,7,8,9 82:20 87:14 96:3,23 97:1,13,15 83:1 51:4 54:20 64:8 bear 88:6,7 91:1 97:19,21 98:1,4,6 assume 57:4 66:4 73:14 76:4 bearing 8:15 bent 50:20 atlas 60:8 78:6 81:4 87:3 bears 19:15 benucci 2:13 48:7 attempt 23:18 90:16,19,24 91:22 beautiful 55:16 48:8 attempted 42:21 92:19,19 94:2,4 56:3 71:6 bernardon 2:6 attendance 1:9,16 backdrop 94:12 beginning 43:20 33:3,6,12,24 1:18 background 10:13 begun 80:11 bernie 60:21 attendees 2:12 22:19 28:4,6 behalf 2:1,3,7 best 13:24 42:17 attending 62:8 bad 56:6 70:5 22:13 85:22 59:7 71:18 90:9 attention 81:1 74:10 belden 73:2,5 betsy 4:14,22 12:5 83:2 bags 63:4 believe 8:23 12:18 14:10 17:17 21:14 attest 56:6 baker 28:6,7 45:3 25:7 34:3 43:19 better 11:10 42:22 attorney 8:6 12:2 45:4 86:15 74:15 77:3 79:8 43:8 47:17 63:5 80:12 baker's 28:7 79:12 95:17 91:14 audible 20:17 21:3 bakers 28:15,24 bell 2:22 82:15,17 betty 9:18,19 21:6 38:4 47:19 31:19 43:1 82:18 84:11 88:8 10:19,23 11:2 59:21 84:22 96:24 ball 60:18 benefit 38:23 13:16 14:20 97:20 barbara 1:10,14 59:16,16 beyond 40:18 audience 6:11 4:7 6:21 18:12 benson 1:10 4:2,8 48:15,23 49:11 84:21 bare 13:10 4:13,21 6:20 7:1 bid 51:23 52:24 audubon 21:24 barely 72:5 7:12 8:18,23,24 big 71:5 72:17 22:1 49:17 50:4 barn 50:19 60:14 14:1 17:11 18:12 80:18 51:4 52:5 54:11 60:24 62:7,7,9,21 19:1 20:15,18,21 bigger 25:15,16 68:23 62:22 63:21 64:14 20:24 21:4,7,12,17 26:6 authority 81:14 65:12 78:11,15 22:9 24:2,7 30:17 bill 2:22 29:6 81:8 83:12 81:23 30:21 32:9,19,22 82:18 availability 27:11 baseboard 29:5 32:24 36:6 38:2,5 bit 25:22 28:6 avoid 81:15 based 14:16 26:3 39:4,9,12,14,17,21 77:21 81:15 aware 14:8,21 50:14,16 81:22 44:15,17 47:15,20 bite 40:12 50:6 basement 20:12 47:22 49:15,21 bites 39:24 ayers 9:18 10:23 72:12 52:13 53:4,7,10,14 black 97:10 14:15,18,19,20 basically 11:10,24 53:21 55:1 56:20 blame 43:1 49:9 15:23 17:8 49:8 70:2 58:12,14 59:18,22 59:13 67:3 ayes 98:5 bay 73:5 83:11 65:2,4,6,18 71:13 blend 48:24 71:6 b bayberry 22:16,20 74:21,24 77:6 blended 26:15 23:9 24:5,23 25:5 79:11 82:12,16 blenheim 2:5 b 1:11 2:2 25:15 38:8,22 84:10,17,19,23 24:12 45:15 47:9 b.j. 2:5 24:6,9 39:2 48:8,11 58:8 85:2 87:23 88:2 49:24 51:11,16 back 10:15 20:21 60:7 63:23 65:9 88:17 89:3 93:9 67:9,11 68:3 69:4 21:8 24:5 26:22 65:22 80:18 82:20 94:13,18 95:8 70:1 73:6,14 29:20 31:6 40:5 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[blenheim - chair] Page 4
81:24 85:23 16:1,5,14,17,20,23 bunch 68:17 carnelli 2:16 58:13 blenheim's 52:24 17:3,10 30:20,22 burcham 2:10 58:15,17 59:5 66:24 31:1,6,10,16 32:10 88:23,23 90:8,11 carpenter 36:1 blight 51:23 66:19 32:13,15,18 36:6,7 92:14 93:11,15,18 carries 98:6 66:21,22 36:15,20,23 37:2,7 93:22 94:3,6,16,19 cars 64:17 blunt 59:9 37:10,14,18,22 94:23 95:3,12,16 carter 2:21 77:7,8 board 1:2,9 4:4 38:1 39:13,15,20 96:6,9,13,17,20 79:12 5:2,12,23 6:15,16 39:22 40:16 41:20 97:5,8,10 case 8:23 65:19 6:22 7:22 9:2 42:24 43:18,21 business 6:18 16:9 71:20 79:9 12:17,20 13:14 44:4,13 47:16 16:11 35:15 44:2 castle 1:1,5 4:3 5:1 22:12,21 24:4 53:20,22 54:3,7,14 68:13,22 69:19 8:7 48:19,21 27:22 31:3 34:4,8 54:24 56:22 57:1 buy 10:1,17,18 52:21 75:21 82:19 36:4 38:2,17 40:1 57:4,14,18,20,23 13:3 31:14 74:8 83:6,24 88:9 42:10 46:5 51:22 58:4,11 59:4 buyer 23:4 cats 55:17 52:14,24 59:7 65:17 94:14,14,17 buying 9:24 72:1 caulfield 1:19 4:14 82:18 94:20 95:2,4,6,10 bygone 65:11 4:24 7:4 14:13 board's 9:4 95:14,19,23 96:4,8 c 17:23 18:8 21:16 boarded 30:2,3,11 96:11,14,19,21 21:22 88:4 97:17 c 4:1 99:1,1 50:9 51:12 97:23 cause 13:13 c&d 70:13 boards 46:23,24 brook's 85:6 caused 23:22 42:7 call 4:3,7 20:21 body 75:13 brothers 7:24 cave 56:16 23:24 62:1 70:14 book 60:21 brought 40:1 83:2 caving 50:9 79:5 border 73:1 budget 68:4,9 86:8 ceiling 50:11 called 48:14 60:22 bought 10:14 13:5 build 23:11 24:20 center 64:8,9,10 64:4 73:1 78:22 13:15 14:17 15:22 42:13 43:9 64:11,12 calling 21:8 15:22,23 16:3 builder 16:17 centers 33:8 canal 22:17 70:13 57:5 building 12:20 central 60:22 caneco 2:18 65:20 box 13:10 34:18 35:23 50:2 centuries 61:6 65:21 85:12 boxed 64:18 50:4,10,15 51:6,8 century 60:20 car 62:4 break 51:5 85:12 51:12 52:1 53:1 61:3,5 70:13,15 care 29:2 41:1 breaks 78:23 56:4,13 61:9 62:5 certain 35:18 42:22 brick 55:23 72:10 88:12 89:12 90:2 certainly 14:10 carefully 61:5 95:18 90:17,21 91:2,6,12 34:11 35:20 carey 2:5 24:9,9 brief 5:19 84:24 91:14,17 92:1,6,11 certified 99:9 24:12,17 25:1,7,11 85:2 89:4 92:20,24,24 93:6 certify 99:2 26:13 27:6,17,20 briefly 58:13 94:11,15,15,24 cet 99:8 27:24 28:5 30:15 broke 67:24 95:18 96:5,9 chad 12:6,7 76:6 30:19,23,24 31:5,9 broken 10:10 buildings 33:9 chair 8:18 22:11 31:11,18,23 32:4,7 brook 1:12 4:11 built 9:13,13 10:16 30:20,20 39:13 32:12,17 38:21 4:11 14:3,3,22 35:24 70:15 72:11 53:20 82:17 83:4 carmine 2:8 88:19 15:5,9,12,15,17,20 73:6 84:5,12
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[chairperson - consider] Page 5
chairperson 1:10 circumstances 62:20 63:12 64:1 compile 5:3 59:7 85:16 87:4 64:22 65:15 71:14 complaints 10:22 challenge 70:8 cistern 55:23 81:19 82:10,16,21 48:13 51:3 chamber 77:15 city 73:9 82:22 85:8 87:1,3 complete 27:13 chance 10:7 73:11 civic 77:19 comes 17:20 completed 12:13 change 26:4 27:10 claim 75:13 76:1 coming 43:14 46:4 19:3 70:10 78:1 85:16 clarification 84:14 46:22,23 47:4 completely 30:11 85:16,16,17 86:24 84:14 75:13 81:4 complex 88:20 92:10 clarify 53:15 comment 6:5 89:5 changed 23:8 25:9 clarity 81:15 44:18 82:14 85:6 compromised 25:11 26:1,7,19,24 classic 64:16 97:19 50:12 changes 26:11 clean 10:2 comments 3:7 concern 69:10 38:22 40:6 90:1,2 cleaned 51:11 5:18 6:10,11,17 concerned 81:3 changing 44:6,7 clear 45:2 96:4 48:6 56:9 58:9 concerning 66:8 91:20 92:8 clearer 79:2 60:3 75:5,9 76:13 68:8 69:11 character 77:13 clearly 40:21 77:2,5 78:4 80:14 concerns 50:3 77:14,21,23,24 clifford 14:19 85:1,2,11 78:7 81:5 chased 30:10 clock 4:6 commitment concluded 98:8 chef 73:10 close 6:5 65:23 76:11 conclusion 5:13 chesapeake 73:9 closed 10:5 committee 78:13 conclusions 35:13 chief 83:7,8 closely 80:17 83:5 84:5 concur 47:15 child 52:2 closer 91:15 commons 1:5 condition 11:13 children 42:20 clubhouse 64:11 communications 13:12 29:10 40:10 52:1,5 55:18 88:11 89:14,17,19 83:9 40:17 50:2,7,19 83:19 89:19 91:1 92:16 community 38:8 54:7,12 78:11 chimneys 71:5 cochran 61:1 38:10,24 49:1 79:4 81:3 83:3 choice 86:3 code 12:18 22:22 50:17 51:2 58:19 96:16 choose 6:4 52:15 69:17 70:7 71:10 58:21 59:12,17 conditions 90:13 chris 2:16 58:17 78:5,9 79:20 80:2 63:22 65:9 66:19 conducted 5:1 christiana 88:6,7 80:11 68:1 70:21 73:5,5 confirm 18:14 89:5,13 91:2,3 collapse 84:3 77:12,13,14,19,21 46:19 59:7 christmas 73:8,11 colleen 1:17 7:14 77:23,24 79:4 connected 70:18 christopher 1:20 color 94:17 80:17,18,19 83:20 connection 22:15 4:15 colored 97:5,6 86:8,14 87:6,14 22:21 23:8 30:14 chute 62:24 63:1,1 combination community's 34:1 39:1 65:13 chutes 62:23,24 41:20 74:13 connectors 62:7 63:1 come 6:7 7:13 company 16:16 connects 70:16 circa 7:10 18:21 40:11 42:10 43:8 24:13 68:12 consecutive 80:5 22:7 44:11 46:24 47:24 compelling 78:10 consequences 80:7 circulate 62:15 47:24 51:22 55:3 competitive 89:14 consider 12:20 55:17 56:19 59:24 41:9 74:19 80:16
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[consider - demands] Page 6
82:2 53:24 54:1 crawl 55:18 dawn 71:22 72:6 considerably corrected 41:18 crazy 70:14 day 24:18,18 30:9 36:11 correctly 51:15 create 66:12 45:17,19,19 65:23 consideration cosmetic 90:2 created 29:14 70:20 76:16 78:23 68:15 83:18 84:8 cost 51:14 69:19 66:14 68:4 79:16 86:1 consternation council 7:11 22:7 creates 94:11 days 45:19 63:24 10:1 77:15 83:4 84:5 creating 93:6 dead 72:16 74:13 construct 88:10,12 88:16 creek 7:8 deal 53:3 constructed 7:10 councilman 2:21 crew 45:20 dealing 68:12 80:9 22:7 88:16 2:22 77:7,8,8 crisis 27:8 deals 69:19 construction 2:5 79:12 82:15,17,19 current 14:18 death 75:7 18:10,10,14 24:14 84:11 36:16 93:1 debate 6:2 77:11 24:18 42:14,16 councilmember currently 83:10 debris 51:12 76:15 91:8,19 75:21 90:3,15 decade 8:18 contacted 12:6 councilwoman curtinel 33:13 decay 35:2 context 35:14 2:20 75:1 cut 11:9 decent 45:8 continue 32:19 county 1:1 4:3 5:1 cuts 75:8 decide 53:2 51:20 53:3 96:21 8:7,13 18:17 d decided 10:1 15:4 continuous 94:10 46:23 48:20 52:21 57:1 d 1:11 3:1 4:1 contracted 76:5 68:1,5,13,14 69:4 decision 8:16,16 daffodils 55:15 contracting 16:16 69:12,17 70:3,7,8 51:24 86:5 dahlstrom 1:21 contracts 74:7 71:10,11 75:21 decisions 6:14 4:16 control 10:3 13:6 76:1 78:17,20,22 dee 2:20 75:2 damage 23:22 31:17,19 41:23 79:23 80:12 82:3 deed 10:16 18:15 34:17,17 42:8 conversation 58:5 82:4,19 83:6,10,24 deeply 65:24 damn 73:13 coordinator 83:11 86:21 degradation 36:15 damned 68:16 copies 60:4 county's 5:5 36:18,21,24 dangerous 41:10 copper 29:4 45:11 countywide 81:5 delap 89:8 52:2 50:18 couple 8:5 22:24 delaware 1:1,5 dark 94:17,18,19 cops 48:14 39:23 44:21 71:18 8:20 33:9 48:20 date 18:14 36:17 copy 19:6 34:7 course 17:5 53:17 60:23 71:23 72:10 36:19,19 46:2 corn 62:14,16 57:11 77:12 85:5 73:9 74:3 75:3 99:12 corner 9:10 28:11 87:9 77:10 83:11 89:21 dated 33:24 63:15 cover 68:20 89:16 delaware's 12:7 dating 51:4 corners 50:21 covered 50:10 74:1 daughter 28:17 corporate 1:5 51:12 delay 59:8 55:8,16 67:22 corporation 16:15 cows 62:10 delays 53:2 68:19 71:4 48:10 58:18 84:16 craftsman 7:10 deliberations david 2:21 correct 16:7 20:9 14:13,14 18:2 83:17 davis 1:13 4:9,9 24:24 25:1,6,7 crashed 25:14 demands 26:8 81:9 31:9 32:4 33:21 80:6
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[demise - ehatt] Page 7
demise 56:19 deteriorated 40:18 disappear 53:12 dollar 67:4 demo 49:6,14 56:4 disappointed 47:6 door 10:24 18:6 52:24 deterioration 35:2 47:7 doors 30:3 demolish 7:9 9:4 35:7 49:9 disappointing doug 33:2 22:4 51:23 67:20 determine 95:24 47:17 douglas 2:6 81:3 determined 22:5 disclose 8:17,21 downhill 56:5 demolished 55:7 88:14 9:2 downstairs 62:3 74:17 detract 96:1 disclosures 8:6 62:17 64:18 demolition 7:9 develop 43:11 discrepancy 18:19 drafting 80:11 22:4,15 38:14 78:1 discuss 90:6 drastically 27:1 40:11 47:11 49:24 developed 86:21 discussed 75:8 drawing 60:23,24 52:8 53:12 59:20 86:22 89:6 discussion 45:5 drilling 16:16 59:23 68:10 75:17 developer 31:13 66:3 drive 9:14 78:23 78:24 45:2,4 46:17 58:4 disheartening driven 64:20 demonstrate 13:2 58:5 63:21 66:6,7 47:13,13 driveway 29:13,15 denies 52:24 72:1 dismantle 65:15 drove 72:6 denigrated 40:17 developers 69:4 disposition 10:3 drywall 50:12 denny 71:23 69:11,19 73:24 13:6 due 20:6 35:1,6 density 86:22 81:24 disrepair 11:11 40:5 67:23 deny 66:22 development 45:12 48:13 49:5 durham 2:20 75:1 department 1:4,16 12:18 15:2 24:21 50:20 60:13 72:13 75:2 1:18 4:15,16,17 24:23 31:4 40:2 distinguishing dwelling 7:9 22:5 6:23 7:15 8:10 43:9 44:22 46:22 17:13 dynamics 44:7 11:23 80:14 83:12 60:7 64:15,21 district 7:11 22:8 e depending 20:22 67:4 69:23 73:1 75:21 82:19 88:16 e 1:10,23 3:1 4:1,1 depends 71:12 77:11 80:7 82:20 divided 40:3 99:1 deplorable 13:12 86:19 document 12:9 earlier 75:8 depression 18:24 die 73:20 19:8 76:6 87:10 east 28:19 88:7 deserve 43:1 difference 72:17 documentation 92:23,23,24 93:14 design 33:4 78:19 different 34:20 46:12 87:17 easy 7:19 designed 95:14,15 36:11 40:7 42:14 documentations echoing 75:9 designers 35:24 43:4,4 69:16 12:12 economic 49:11 desperately 79:24 85:20 93:4 documented 46:12 economically 35:7 destroyed 41:5 direct 85:5 documenting educate 73:8,12 destroying 51:7 directly 10:24 87:16 efficient 5:6 detail 91:17 55:5 86:18 89:7 dog 51:9 55:8,17 effort 43:4 51:18 detailed 79:22 90:23 91:16 doing 7:14 33:13 efforts 40:18 details 40:16 director 75:2 39:18 45:16,17,21 41:13 43:4 82:13 deteriorate 9:18 dirt 72:12 46:9 47:10 69:19 85:18 13:14 41:4 45:21 disagree 43:18 70:4 86:11 ehatt 1:24 99:2,8 67:1 59:2 85:11
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[eight - features] Page 8
eight 28:10 48:20 38:6 40:14 90:17,24 94:7,24 families 26:22,23 92:22,23 93:10 error 41:16 expand 88:13 73:9 74:10 either 43:1 66:6,7 especially 44:3 89:24 family 7:9 9:16 electric 11:9 13:8 esq 1:12,17 2:2,4 expanding 89:13 14:18 16:9 17:8 29:6 essence 91:24 expansion 89:11 25:16 26:14 45:4 electrical 13:10 essentially 33:19 89:18,20,23 45:4 60:6,8 67:21 50:15 89:22 92:4 expect 50:20 73:2 86:15 electricity 29:7,18 established 5:8 expected 47:17 family's 70:24 58:2 72:19 estate 61:1 expensive 26:17 far 10:15 39:24 electronic 99:9 european 73:8 experience 80:9 50:4 75:6 80:23 electronically 19:9 evaluate 6:16 expert 8:19 75:11 83:17 19:11 evaporating 70:14 91:9 farm 8:3 9:15,16 elements 35:1 evening 7:5,18 expertise 78:13 14:18 16:24 28:7 elevation 93:14 21:23 32:23 48:7 explain 9:21 28:8 66:13 70:13 eligible 22:5 40:8 58:15 75:1 82:21 explaining 64:3 72:1 73:8,11 46:13 75:14 88:14 82:23 84:4 88:5 exploratory 88:10 86:20 elizabeth 1:19 events 4:20 35:22 extend 90:18 farmed 86:15 emails 78:6 79:10 47:7 75:12 91:21 farmers 70:19 emergency 83:8 eventually 73:21 extends 90:16 farmhouse 22:15 employed 24:11 evergreens 91:24 exterior 50:14,21 26:11 27:16 28:9 empty 28:22 everybody 8:15 extremely 47:16 28:10,12,14,16,18 enclosed 55:23 47:3 66:22 eyesore 41:9 48:17 28:18 31:24 33:17 encouraged 5:19 everybody's 27:8 87:6 34:10 35:17 50:8 46:17 exact 61:20 71:21 f 51:17 65:22,24 ended 8:23 10:24 exactly 15:3 70:15 72:2 88:14 f 99:1 30:4 41:22 examples 75:23 89:12,15,17,21 fabric 34:18 engaged 47:2 exceed 5:10 farming 70:21 face 55:6 70:20 enhancements excess 23:10 86:14 86:14 38:23 exchange 93:4 farmstead 22:24 facebook 58:8 entertain 97:22 excrement 62:9 23:3 76:21 entire 15:23 excuse 18:17 fasciola 2:8 88:19 facility 55:10 entity 8:1 executed 12:9 88:19 87:14 environmental executive 75:2 fate 53:2 fact 38:12 57:9 11:18 19:15 21:15 exercise 40:24 father 72:19 60:20 85:23 era 14:13 65:11 exercised 41:1 fault 66:23 74:14 fair 20:3 47:3,6 erase 78:2 exhibit 9:7 11:13 favor 5:16 21:2 fairly 37:3 eriksen 2:6 32:23 11:23 15:24 47:23 48:4 49:13 faith 86:1 33:2,3,7,18,22 existing 16:11 55:2 59:19 98:4 fall 12:24 60:13 34:2,11 35:17 29:13,14 34:16 feasible 35:8 80:9 falling 50:22 36:8,12,18,21,24 66:13 72:2,21 features 17:13 familiar 27:15 37:4,8,13,16,20,23 88:11 89:19 90:13
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[february - graffiti] Page 9
february 51:16 fit 26:5 49:1 fox 55:17 go 7:21 12:16 feel 49:4 60:10 five 5:22 45:19 framed 91:18 13:20 15:13,23 65:10 74:10 86:3 48:9 54:6 58:21 frames 94:12 18:16,16,17 23:5 fell 11:6 69:9 72:21 81:4 framing 61:6,9 29:1 30:11 39:19 felt 77:20 91:15 62:7 91:11 92:1 46:1,18 49:11 female 18:21 fix 72:19 80:2 93:6 62:21 63:3 70:12 31:21 32:2,5 81:15 freshman 77:8 73:14 76:24 53:15 90:10 92:13 fixed 13:17 63:6 friend 72:7 god's 78:15 93:10,12,17,19 flattened 74:11 front 31:24 50:9 goes 13:10 90:21 94:1,5 95:5 96:7 fleeing 51:8 66:11 89:22 going 4:20 12:12 97:3,7,9,24 98:2 floor 11:7 30:3 full 11:4,5 50:16 12:24 15:1,3 fence 30:5,7 51:13 61:10 62:22 63:13 fully 58:24 17:17 26:16,17 67:18 72:12 fumbled 70:2 29:1,24 39:2 fenced 30:11 floors 50:11 72:20 funds 68:2 69:2,3 44:24 45:5 46:23 55:14 focus 5:20 78:17 86:8,12 48:9 49:22 50:2 fencing 55:9,12 folk 22:4 35:18 further 16:13 54:6,16 56:13,14 field 12:11 47:3,5 folks 32:23 78:18 20:15 53:16 56:14 61:21 62:10 fieldstone 72:11 84:1 future 65:24 68:13 65:1 67:3,6,12 fifty 48:20 follow 89:15 70:16,24 71:1,12 68:6,16,22 71:9 figure 15:1 57:12 following 5:7,8,15 g 74:4 77:24 78:1 filed 22:14 53:17 12:5 78:19 79:6,7,18,20 g 4:1 final 40:12 foot 25:18 26:20 81:8,13,17 86:10 gary 2:10 88:23 finally 10:7 58:1 88:11,12 89:10,20 89:16,23,24 90:6 90:4,6 92:22 forced 71:8 90:14 91:21,23 gary's 89:16 financial 40:6 foregoing 99:2 92:2,10,18 93:3,5 general 5:17 78:4 find 19:16 23:4 forever 17:6 74:5 93:19,20 94:1,9 78:6 45:23,24 46:21 forgotten 80:20 95:20,22 generally 93:5 57:8 62:10 76:11 former 9:15 75:2 good 4:21 23:20 gentleman 28:24 78:16 80:2 forth 66:5 32:23 37:3 40:10 gentlemen 4:3 finding 83:24 forward 6:8 7:13 48:7 49:4 58:15 65:21 findings 34:9 47:24 55:3 59:24 60:19 61:4 63:18 george 1:22 4:17 35:13 36:5 71:11,15 77:4 65:20 73:24 75:1 12:15 fire 83:6,7 84:3 79:6,9 82:16 81:19,23 82:1 georges 22:3 95:21 found 20:8 29:3 86:1 96:16 getting 48:13 fireplace 17:14,14 72:3 73:14 gosh 72:9 give 13:22 36:4 firm 33:4,16 88:22 foundation's gotten 26:5 56:1 48:1 65:12 69:4 first 6:18 7:2,4 8:6 18:22 government 70:9 81:14 88:18 11:6 25:3,3 28:10 four 16:13 41:22 graduated 28:17 gives 91:14 30:3 34:14 41:21 43:15 48:9 54:5 graffiti 29:24 giving 89:2 58:23 64:22 66:1 91:13 50:10 68:19 gladly 65:15 87:1
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[grain - house] Page 10
grain 62:19,24,24 h hearings 5:2 77:22 holding 7:24 62:24 63:1,2,8 h 1:14 heart 78:23 hole 50:21 55:23 grains 62:15 haggerty 1:22 heat 13:8 hollies 92:3 94:8,8 granary 22:16,23 4:17 heated 77:11 holly 92:2,9,20 23:3,5 26:10,12 half 35:5,6 50:22 held 6:18 93:1 94:7 27:16 33:17 34:9 55:11 56:5,7,12 hell 73:24 home 28:14 51:24 38:12 50:8 60:14 hall 1:23 6:22,24 hello 71:16 55:17 68:4,18 60:24 61:19 62:2 67:10 71:24 72:15 help 24:20 31:1 69:14 72:14 73:1 62:11 63:21 85:10 85:19,20 59:12 79:7,8 74:4 85:14 86:4 hallway 77:16 80:15 81:21 82:9 homebuilding grandchildren hand 7:20 11:7 herman's 60:21 25:13 62:2 83:19 17:12 hi 48:7 49:16 homeowners grandfather 9:13 handed 11:14 high 28:17 57:12 58:18 82:24 10:14 14:17 handle 81:20 hindsight 42:9 homes 2:5 52:4 grandparents 17:5 handmade 73:10 44:11 69:9 70:13 72:24 grange 61:1 happen 38:13 historic 1:2,9 4:4 hope 43:21 69:15 grant 12:10 54:16 69:7 70:7 5:1,5,20 6:15 69:16 71:9 74:19 great 9:13 10:14 70:24 80:1 12:19 22:6 33:9 80:23 81:23,24 14:17 18:23 21:17 happened 10:3 33:15 34:14,18 82:9 green 93:13 94:10 happening 51:1 35:14 36:1 41:2 hopeful 12:10,13 94:11 happens 81:18 43:7,10 46:14,16 hopefully 49:6 greenways 77:11 82:11 52:20 56:11 60:16 80:12 greg 2:19 69:14 happy 13:23 57:8 60:17 66:12 67:9 horrible 78:21 71:16 76:22 87:9,11,19 71:23 73:12,16 horses 62:10,20 grew 9:6,8 hard 44:2,4 72:23 75:23 76:21 79:15 hot 29:5 70:22 ground 55:24 72:5 81:23 79:17 86:19 88:15 house 9:4,12 10:7 group 58:8,10 hardworking 89:11 90:23 91:9 10:8,16,18,23 11:3 74:18 70:18 96:1,5,10,15 11:4,9,13 12:23 groups 76:21 hazard 52:2 historical 2:17 13:7,7,15 14:11 growing 54:13 hazards 19:16 8:19 14:5,7,21 15:8 17:5,13,19 72:5 hear 20:24 41:12 17:7 52:18 60:2 18:1 20:13 22:6 grown 50:22 68:16 69:6 75:10 70:12 91:7 22:23 23:5,21 guess 13:4 39:17 78:10 history 9:21 27:23 25:19 26:10,15,16 50:15 55:22 heard 5:22 67:8,12 63:24 64:4 72:10 28:11,21 29:8,15 guise 29:1 67:17 77:14 81:22 74:1 78:2 87:20 29:18 30:5 31:2 gunshots 51:6 82:5 hit 44:2,2 32:4,16 35:10 guy 11:2 74:2 hearing 1:3 4:4 hold 5:23 53:11,16 36:9,22 37:1,3,5,6 guys 79:5 81:7 5:1,7 6:13,15 7:19 69:17,20 70:6 37:12,19,24 38:11 gym 64:12 11:24 20:19 48:15 73:23,23 74:7 40:7,8,17 42:6,11 51:14 77:13 97:21 92:7 42:19 48:12,21,23 49:24 52:9,19,24
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[house - kevin] Page 11
53:10,23 54:8,12 impacted 26:11 infiltration 23:21 item 5:9 87:24 54:15,16,21 57:5 51:24 information 5:3 items 40:20 51:19 57:11 58:6,23 impacts 89:16 6:16 41:12 50:1 64:18 59:16 60:10,15 90:5 54:23 j 61:21 66:19 67:10 important 47:1 informed 54:19,21 j 2:4 22:6 50:8 68:19 70:1 71:5 73:13 74:1 78:15 ing 29:24 60:8 71:10 72:3,5,7,8 79:8 initial 8:6 9:20 jackson 1:20 4:15 72:11,19 73:3,21 impractical 13:3 10:6 12:5 73:20 jamison 28:11 74:8 80:22 85:9 13:11 ins 51:5 janet 2:15 55:4 85:14 86:4,9,11,19 improve 81:20 inside 51:6 95:5 jay 2:14 49:16 87:10,13,17,18 improvements inspect 60:9 66:20 houses 9:14 14:4 68:21 inspection 79:24 jersey 8:20 64:2 24:20 25:15,16,23 inadequate 55:9 80:4 job 25:3 42:22 26:14,18 27:7,9,11 included 28:9 installed 51:13 78:21 91:9 27:12,12 49:10 80:19 instance 51:8 joe 2:13 48:8 60:18 75:24 81:4 including 40:14 instances 23:19 58:19 69:15 housing 25:21 87:17 insulation 50:12 john 1:12,13 4:9 40:6 44:3 inclusion 40:8 intend 86:10 4:11 14:2,3 30:21 houston 22:6 incompetence intent 23:2 67:11 32:9 39:14 53:21 49:24 50:8 52:19 66:6 68:7,12 85:13 86:2 56:20 94:13,14 60:8 71:5 incorporate 82:4 intention 43:6,19 95:9 96:3 huge 61:23 64:15 incorporated interest 48:2 76:23 johns 1:15 4:10,10 huh 65:2 75:24 interested 9:24 joined 6:22 7:15 human 45:9 increased 25:21 14:4 41:8 43:3 joints 61:7 hundred 7:8 22:3 incredibly 73:15 interesting 17:14 july 99:12 88:9 74:1 17:20 june 1:6 4:5 33:24 hurt 52:3 56:1 incurred 51:13 internet 65:1,9 38:11,11 46:1,1,18 83:21 indicate 40:21 intersection 7:7 husband 60:17 indicated 22:13 22:2 88:8 91:3 k 61:18 62:3 63:5 23:2 28:1 38:21 investigation 36:9 karen 1:11,24 4:12 i 41:20 87:2 98:5 46:8 17:11 19:1 44:17 indication 91:14 investor 11:1 99:2,8 idea 47:8 62:11,14 indicative 18:1,9 invited 5:14 kate 12:6,11 62:19 64:19 indiscernible involved 24:22 keep 37:3 41:15 identical 61:2,19 21:14 53:14 irresponsibility 47:9 68:22 73:13 image 76:15 individual 24:19 67:23 76:12 imagine 41:9 82:11 issue 83:2 keeping 65:12 51:18 73:20 indulge 82:8 issues 5:20 51:10 75:6 immediate 38:19 industry 25:13 51:14 53:3 78:9 kept 62:16 immediately 79:14 44:3 issuing 80:6 kevin 2:18 65:21 impact 41:6 71:19,22 73:15
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[kick - loved] Page 12
kick 70:2 land 1:4,18 4:15 life 60:16,22 83:18 location 26:7 kicking 29:24 4:16,17 6:23 84:8 78:18 93:5 94:6 kids 29:24 30:9 11:23 12:2 31:14 lifted 63:18 long 23:10 42:13 48:14 55:20 80:14 lifting 63:14 43:24 54:3 65:1 kind 23:5 25:14 landowner 31:12 liked 57:9 79:1 86:16 26:4,15 39:1 landowners 31:14 limit 5:24 longer 34:24 40:24 45:23,24 lands 86:21 limited 5:22 longtime 84:6 80:20 93:6 landscape 88:24 line 51:18 look 9:7 31:11 knew 10:8 91:10 list 44:9 33:19 34:14,21 knock 43:12 landscaping 90:6 listed 52:20,22 40:22 49:8 61:11 know 10:13,15 90:7 listening 77:1 61:12 70:17 81:23 11:12 13:21 16:20 lane 22:2 listing 61:13 81:24 94:9 95:10 17:7,9,11 18:9 large 27:7,8 34:24 listservs 76:20 looked 18:15 19:11 26:2,6,16 42:12 50:21 93:13 literally 56:15 34:20 48:22 72:9 28:23 35:24 36:23 largely 11:5 little 7:20,21 25:22 looking 44:10 38:12 42:9,12,24 larger 25:17 26:14 28:5 54:2 63:15 45:14,18,20 47:6,9 43:16 44:5 45:20 26:17 63:15,17 70:22 90:22,23 91:2,16 45:23 46:3,22 largest 27:12 77:21 81:14 89:16 92:6,16 93:13,16 48:21 49:4,6 late 4:19 51:5 92:1 93:17,21 52:11 54:20,23 81:18 89:6 live 9:11 10:18 looks 91:15 56:6 58:1,2,2,3 laugh 76:14 14:16 15:19,21 lose 71:9 82:7 61:24 62:9,20 laughs 57:22 28:9 29:1 38:9,19 lost 71:7 91:12 63:3 64:2,7,16 law 1:16 7:14 8:9 42:21 48:8 52:1 lot 11:16 17:19,24 66:20 68:9,18 81:10,10 53:23 55:5 57:8 18:1,3,3 20:11,13 70:4,5,11 75:18,23 lawn 93:19 65:23 74:5,10 23:7,8 25:15 76:4,10 78:12,24 leads 50:24 lived 10:11 14:17 26:10 29:21 33:10 80:8,17 83:14 leak 41:4 14:20 15:18 17:6 35:1 40:3 42:13 96:2 learned 58:10 17:8 28:11,13,16 44:6 48:13 64:21 knowing 46:4 leave 71:2 78:12 31:24 45:9 48:8 69:23 72:22 75:4 knowledge 14:9 87:6 48:19,20,21 49:10 80:9 85:17,20,21 14:15 leaving 88:1 54:3,5 58:20 60:6 85:21 86:3,14,16 known 22:6 50:8 leed 1:11 60:9 72:8 86:17 89:24 90:5 63:10 left 11:10 29:7 lives 9:16 49:18 90:16,18 91:21 knows 25:13 72:15 74:13 89:24 living 10:24 13:17 92:6,16 93:20,23 l legal 81:8,15 29:22 42:6 93:23 legally 16:11 llc 7:24 lots 16:13,13 23:10 l 1:15 letter 11:8 load 52:23 25:24 26:6 52:5 ladies 4:2 65:20 letting 82:8 located 7:6 9:4 63:20 64:10 66:12 lady 10:19 library 95:22 16:19 21:24 22:16 love 64:16 74:3,3 laid 66:10 lies 66:7 68:8 88:6,13 loved 13:14 lake 67:10 70:1 85:22 87:13,18 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[ludicrous - needs] Page 13
ludicrous 75:10 marl 78:22 method 18:9 45:7 54:8 55:11 m maryland 74:2 michael 33:13 56:12 57:6,9,16 material 17:24 mid 60:20 61:3,5 60:17 61:20 92:19 ma 1:14 materials 37:11 middle 43:11 moving 70:10 ma'am 27:17 32:8 40:13 85:21 71:11 77:4 79:9 33:22 55:2 59:24 matsen 2:17 60:1 middletown 2:17 91:15 74:24 82:15 60:1 65:3,5,8 22:18 60:2 64:1,4 multimillion 67:4 madam 30:20,20 matter 8:14 13:4 64:4 67:24 multiple 27:21 39:13 53:20 59:7 84:16 middletown's 71:1 51:7 82:17 84:12 matters 8:8 midwest 57:7 music 73:11 maintain 29:2 max 2:2 7:23 miles 57:6 56:11 79:2 n mcbride 2:9 88:22 mill 7:5,6,8 9:5,10 maintained 40:2 n 3:1 4:1 60:6 99:1 meadows 89:5,13 9:11 10:17 56:11 90:3 96:16 nails 61:8,9 62:6 91:3 mind 17:20 45:10 maintaining 42:4 name 6:9 7:23 mean 11:5 30:9 76:24 maintenance 14:19 22:12 24:7 37:14 59:9 78:2 minor 88:10 10:21 48:10 58:18 32:24 33:2 48:1,8 81:6 86:9 87:10 minutes 5:11,22 69:18 79:22 84:15 49:16 55:3,4 means 45:17 76:8 13:21 88:12 89:9,12 58:16 60:1 65:21 81:9 91:9 95:7 missing 50:11 male 4:19 21:11 71:16,24 75:2 media 51:2 70:3 model 62:3 34:5 49:20 53:5 82:18 88:18 meet 12:18 26:8 mom 8:11 9:16 84:13,18 97:12,14 named 73:2 62:13,13 mom's 9:8 15:8 management nanticoke 28:14 meeting 4:5 6:18 moment 70:17 24:13 79:22 28:15 38:10 50:17 67:10 mondrian 22:2 manager 2:6 33:7 national 22:5 40:9 67:10 70:1 80:5 money 37:2 56:15 78:7,7 82:6 46:13 52:20 72:15 86:8 69:5 72:22 73:18 manifested 46:6 75:14 88:15 meetings 43:15,16 month 6:19 46:1,4 map 15:13 60:5 nature 93:7 95:18 68:2 53:16 march 53:17,18 nc15 7:10 members 5:12 months 43:13 76:5 ncap 88:16 7:22 22:12 38:2 53:11,18 59:8 marcy 12:7 near 53:23 56:10 70:3 73:16 77:9 mark 2:9 88:21 necessarily 34:22 82:17 mortise 61:7,24 market 25:14 26:3 59:2 86:18 mentioned 14:11 mother 8:1 26:5,8 27:3,3 necessary 39:8,9 19:2 motion 97:22 98:2 35:11 40:6 44:1 need 8:5 34:6 mentioning 64:5 98:6 73:8 76:13,18 50:16 61:15 64:8 message 81:5 move 11:2 49:5 marketability 71:11 75:3,22 messing 67:5 59:22 64:19 78:19 27:4 79:7,13,20,24 met 12:6 97:23,24 marketed 76:19 80:15 81:15,20 metal 61:8 62:6 moved 26:6 27:9 marketing 44:7 needed 44:8 63:11,13,17 28:12,14,15,17,21 markets 85:16 needs 6:1 26:3,5 31:22,23 32:2,7 63:9 69:20 74:17 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[negatively - parcel] Page 14
negatively 21:5 nuisance 67:23 84:18 88:2 90:12 originally 19:17 neglect 68:10 number 23:19 93:15 94:5 95:4,6 25:15 28:6 negligence 80:5 33:14 38:9,13,22 95:8,19 96:8,15,19 ounce 73:18 neighbor 57:24 38:23 42:18 49:23 96:23 97:7,9 outbuildings 58:1 66:11 67:2 85:11 old 14:6 48:21,21 72:21 neighborhood 92:22 49:10 56:3 57:11 outside 22:18 54:9 25:22 26:24 29:23 o 71:6 72:17 89:5 54:12 95:21 55:18,20 older 26:16 57:7 overflowing 77:14 o 4:1 99:1 neighbors 41:7 60:15 overlay 79:15 oak 61:6,23 57:17 olds 67:5 68:17 oversee 24:17,19 object 12:21 never 43:6 45:10 once 23:16,16 overview 89:4 obvious 56:12 55:12 68:2,4 84:2 29:16,22 49:11 owned 8:1 9:18 obviously 57:7 new 1:1,5 4:3 5:1 92:7 10:14 14:18 17:5 75:20 8:7,20 48:19,21 ongoing 30:8 28:3 73:2 78:22 occur 51:21 53:2 52:6,21 64:1,2 open 5:23 52:6 owner 9:15,22,22 79:3 71:7 75:21 82:18 57:10 64:20,21 40:23 41:24 occurred 35:23 83:6,24 88:9 84:15 owners 23:14 36:16 38:23 94:15 97:4 opinion 49:2 60:16 41:13 45:3 88:20 offensive 59:9 nice 10:19 11:2 81:8 ownership 9:21 offer 5:17 91:10 opinions 58:24 23:12,17 31:2 offering 6:10 night 4:19 51:5 opportunity 5:21 owns 33:10 office 21:15 54:18 nine 13:21 43:13 13:20 36:4,9 39:5 90:3 96:18,20 p 53:11,16,18 72:4 39:7 80:20 82:22 officials 67:9,11 p 4:1 nineteenth 60:20 opposition 5:17 68:3,14 69:4 70:2 p.m. 1:7 98:8 61:3,5 70:13,15 69:24 70:1 70:3 pack 61:15,16 nobody's 10:11 option 35:3 offset 90:4 packet 7:20 11:13 nonconforming options 42:11 oh 15:20 16:20 page 3:3 15:24 16:11 63:20 39:17 61:21 68:6 96:14 nope 68:22 order 4:4 5:7,15 68:24 72:9 92:14 pages 21:15 norris 1:17 7:14 27:10 34:23 47:2 96:17 paid 29:6 45:24 north 22:2,17 24:5 60:18 89:14 90:4 okay 4:13,18 16:1 46:18 51:16 24:23 25:5,15 orderly 6:13 17:3,10 18:20 palladio 22:1 58:8 60:7 87:14 ordinances 77:4 19:12 20:14,23 pam 22:12 76:4 northeast 7:7 organization 6:9 21:7 32:18,22 pamela 2:4 21:24 orient 24:3 34:7,15 35:4 paper 7:5,6 9:5,10 note 6:21 7:14 original 17:24 37:22 38:1 44:13 9:11 10:17 36:2 66:11 18:5 25:4 26:13 45:13 46:2,3,19 paperwork 46:15 noted 9:5 66:13 27:1,7,13 29:15 52:17 53:9,13,19 parcel 7:8 15:23 notes 86:24 31:12,12,14 62:23 55:15 58:11 59:4 18:17 22:3 79:16 noticed 57:5,11 63:1 61:9 64:14 65:3,5 88:8 72:12 77:15 84:11 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[pardon - prepare] Page 15
pardon 57:19 permit 7:9 12:11 plan 22:22 25:4,9 pointe 73:5 parent 57:7 22:4,15 40:12 25:11,21 26:1,4,13 pointed 78:8 park 7:7 52:6 47:11 53:17 26:19 27:1,7,10,13 poles 29:14 78:18 82:5 permits 80:6 28:22 31:12,13 police 83:12 parking 88:13 permitted 6:2 32:10,12,13,15 politicians 69:5 89:22,24 90:5,16 person 45:9,10 40:7 41:22 42:1 pond 29:14 90:18,20 91:21 48:19 49:10 43:24 66:14 67:5 poop 62:10 92:5,16,19 93:1,20 personal 49:1 68:10 69:24 73:20 pop 30:4,7 93:22,23 petitions 38:17 79:13,14,21,22 poplar 71:24 parks 82:6 ph 33:13 88:20 81:9 88:10,22 72:15 85:19,20 part 17:5 22:24 89:8 planner 4:14 popping 55:15 29:12 34:24 42:15 phase 11:18 19:3 97:16 porch 50:9 55:19 44:22 78:20 86:20 19:14,19 planning 24:20 65:23 71:3 94:15,19 photo 93:10 87:2 portion 90:19 partially 40:4 photograph 90:22 plans 10:6 14:23 position 33:5 70:5 particular 8:11,12 92:12,15,22 44:23 81:6 86:24 71:8 9:7 14:10 26:10 photographs 90:15 positive 82:10 34:1 37:17 44:24 37:11,16 40:20 plant 93:4 possess 42:2 46:12 84:9 87:21 87:13,16 plants 93:5 possession 23:12 particularly 78:5 picked 55:14 play 52:5,7 64:22 23:13 41:23 parts 42:14 95:1,2 pickle 66:18 69:8 playing 30:10 47:3 possibilities 34:21 pass 7:22 picture 12:2 13:9 47:5 possibility 87:12 passed 9:19 91:1,2,4,13 92:5 please 4:22 7:3,13 87:16 passion 70:24 pictures 11:4,14 7:16 8:14 22:10 possible 76:2 82:3 71:20,21 11:21 17:18 37:18 24:2,8 32:19 82:4 path 16:13 61:14,15,16 39:21 47:24 49:21 possibly 35:5 pattern 66:9 piece 35:20 46:13 52:8 55:3,3 58:14 possum 7:7 pay 81:1 49:7 61:8 72:10 61:12 71:15 82:16 posted 11:24,24 pe 1:13,15 96:11 85:2 88:18 posting 12:3 pegged 61:24 pieces 94:21 pleasure 8:22 power 29:14,17,20 pennsylvania 73:9 pipes 29:4,5,5 pledge 67:24 81:13 people 29:22 38:9 piping 20:12 50:18 85:13 precedent 81:2 38:14,18,18 40:24 piss 68:23 plemmons 77:10 preeminent 35:20 45:17 64:1,15 pit 78:23 95:21 pls 1:15 75:11 67:17,24 69:18,23 place 22:2 52:7 plumbing 72:20 preface 34:13 70:8 71:14 73:12 60:5 61:20 62:18 point 15:2 23:4,23 pregel 2:15 55:4,4 74:8 77:15 87:20 63:7,11 64:9 38:9 42:5,5 43:18 56:23,24 57:3,6,16 88:1 65:10 73:19 75:12 48:23 59:1 68:23 57:19,21,24 58:7 period 6:4,5 18:10 76:9 85:7 69:22 83:16 86:2 prehearing 9:5 23:11 35:18 37:5 places 22:6 52:20 91:16 prepare 33:24 88:15
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[prepared - ready] Page 16
prepared 49:19 problems 42:18 44:21,24 45:6,8,12 69:5,8 72:20 73:7 52:18 88:22 83:22,23 45:16,18 46:13 73:18 76:12 79:10 prerequisites 12:4 procedure 3:4 47:10 49:8,18 79:13,21 86:12 present 35:11 4:21,23 54:15,18 56:1 90:14 37:23 61:20 proceed 45:6 48:5 57:2,5 58:22 60:9 putting 30:5 46:21 presentation 5:10 85:9 86:10 71:23 72:1 73:4 94:7,21 5:13 7:21 13:20 proceedings 98:8 73:14,16 75:11,14 q 85:5 88:18 99:4 76:6,12,15,17,19 queen 35:18 preservation 4:14 process 42:1 46:22 78:20,22 79:2 question 14:22 34:21,23 35:2 47:1,14 79:13,18 83:21 84:9 30:22 33:17 34:10 60:17 66:15 69:6 processes 81:12 proposal 12:8,9 52:10,13,14,17,23 75:3 79:17 97:16 professional 78:13 proposed 5:4 53:22 55:6 56:21 preserve 28:23 program 12:7 89:13 90:5 92:18 56:22 76:3 86:7,7 34:23 41:1 43:6 project 2:6 22:20 proposing 89:10 87:11 95:24 66:16 67:11 68:6 23:9,9 25:2 33:7 90:1 questions 5:12 6:3 68:9 73:18 77:21 39:2 42:13 44:7 protected 40:3,4,8 13:24 14:2 20:15 78:16,20 86:20 47:23 86:1 provide 27:22 30:19 32:21 36:5 preserved 32:16 projects 5:4 28:3 47:3 51:18 38:3 39:15,18 45:1 54:22 promises 69:20 52:7 91:11,11 44:15 47:18 52:11 preserving 43:3 proof 74:6 provided 11:15 57:14 95:9,9 85:9 properly 56:10 34:3 45:15 50:1 96:23 president 24:13 67:19 public 1:3 2:12 3:7 quick 10:13 48:10 49:3 58:17 properties 10:1 4:4,24 5:14 6:5,12 quicker 7:21 82:24,24 84:7,7 15:22 16:10 33:15 6:17 46:24 48:6 quickly 51:8 preteen 29:24 76:21 83:23 78:17 83:2,5,18 quite 63:18 pretty 13:12 24:17 property 8:2 9:7,8 84:5,6,8 97:19 quote 65:10 25:11,18 26:1,24 9:9,18,22,23 10:9 pull 30:7 28:22 10:17,21,22 11:18 pulled 29:4 r previous 45:3 12:1,10 13:3,4,13 pulling 30:1 94:4 r 1:13 4:1 99:1 primarily 33:8 14:7,23 15:5,14 purchase 8:2 57:2 rain 73:19 primary 8:5 16:4,5 17:6 19:16 purchased 11:17 raised 50:3 prior 9:2 23:13,14 19:17,17 23:12,13 28:8 29:9 31:19 rand 60:5 33:12 80:18 23:15,15,17,18 54:14,17 72:4 random 6:11 priority 57:12 28:2,19 31:2,7,15 purpose 5:2 12:21 rapidly 56:5 probably 13:17 32:1,3 34:1,12,14 62:13 rash 29:23 15:1 35:11 41:9 34:15,16 35:6,23 purposes 84:1 read 7:2 21:19 42:11,11,23 44:10 36:13,16,19 38:13 pursuing 41:21 39:5 44:11 54:22 76:16 40:2,23 41:2,6,8 pushed 94:2 reading 5:8 58:10 85:7,8 41:14,15,24,24 put 19:19 28:13 reads 1:5 problem 30:8 42:2,3,4,5,8,18 30:13 53:11 56:15 ready 10:20 43:3,7,7,10,10,20 62:1 63:4 67:21
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[reality - richard] Page 17
reality 69:14,14 records 60:4 repeatedly 77:22 respect 6:12 22:22 69:15 refer 52:15 replaced 92:2,21 27:23 34:9 35:13 really 10:19 11:1 referred 35:19 replacement 50:16 35:15 36:5 58:24 13:22 15:4 17:9 regard 33:23 replant 91:23 responded 51:11 19:8 27:9 35:2,7 regarding 5:3 51:3 report 33:24 36:5 response 20:17 44:6 46:21 47:7,7 regardless 59:13 36:10 40:14 46:2 21:3,6 27:3 38:4 56:1 63:18 67:6 82:10 46:7,19 51:3 47:19 51:10 59:21 73:17,18 75:3,5 regards 44:20 97:15 78:8 84:22 85:5 78:3,4,10 79:19 register 22:5 40:9 reported 51:4,5,10 86:9 96:24 97:20 81:2,9 84:17 46:14 52:20 75:14 reports 51:20 responsibility 85:23,23,23 91:20 75:15 88:15 represent 8:7,10 66:24 92:10 93:3 94:12 registry 72:15 19:14 40:24 60:2 responsible 23:14 reason 46:5 48:4 regret 87:4 representation 42:3 69:18 66:3 68:17 95:23 regular 62:9 8:13 rest 6:21 reasonable 40:18 regulations 71:11 representative restorable 82:1 40:19 relationship 9:2 22:10 54:18 restoration 34:22 reasonableness relationships 73:4 representatives 35:4 40:19 relevant 5:3 86:18 5:9 restore 35:5 41:15 reasonably 12:22 relooking 44:6 represented 8:19 49:12 68:4 69:2 12:23,24 40:10 remain 53:1,10 representing 7:24 80:22 91:24 reasons 49:11 remarks 5:20 represents 75:7 restored 41:11 rebuttal 3:8 6:4 remember 14:12 require 79:14,22 71:22 72:18,22 39:7 85:3 17:21,22 71:3 required 22:22 73:4 78:14 recall 44:1 51:15 remembers 17:18 requirements resubbed 26:3 received 6:17 8:9 remind 64:24 81:12 result 82:23 recession 44:2 remove 11:20 requiring 79:20 retain 23:2 85:14 recognize 91:10 51:17 resent 85:23 retained 33:16 recognized 6:12 removed 20:4,6 reserve 39:7 retiring 83:9 recommendations 41:8 50:18 91:21 residence 13:11 reuse 63:21 6:14 92:9,21 93:2,20 resident 49:2,17 reuses 64:7 reconfigured renovate 35:10 51:9 65:22 review 1:2,9 4:4 90:20 renovation 33:10 residential 41:15 5:2 6:15 12:19 record 5:3,23 8:21 34:22 35:9 residents 48:14 20:3 22:21 33:17 12:4 24:8 33:1 rent 64:13 49:23 51:4 53:3 34:16 46:24 52:20 66:10 79:2,8,10,14 rented 13:7 58:9 66:4,17,23 79:15,17 87:19 79:21 81:6,9 rep 54:21 68:23 83:1,19 reviewed 34:11,12 82:13 99:3 repair 37:3 40:19 87:15,18 51:2 record's 84:14 40:19 48:23 resides 82:20 rewarding 80:23 recorded 6:6 25:5 repairs 63:9 68:21 resisted 43:13 rhetorically 76:3 28:22 79:16 repeat 48:3 58:16 resources 5:5 richard 1:23 6:22
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[rid - shrubs] Page 18
rid 26:5 59:15 rpa 1:14 32:20 33:5,16,19 sense 37:23 87:20 ride 62:19 rude 45:24 33:23 34:3,6 sent 12:8 78:6 ridiculous 76:2 rule 84:2 35:12 36:3 38:7 separate 79:16 right 4:2 6:13 7:2 rules 3:4 4:21,23 39:6,11,22 40:15 separates 94:11 9:12 14:12 15:1 5:7 41:19 43:17,22 september 12:13 16:21 17:3 18:23 run 84:20 92:18 44:5,14 47:21 sequence 47:7 21:19,22 24:4 running 51:9 84:24 85:4 serious 60:13 30:14 31:5 39:12 rural 60:22 screen 91:23 94:10 76:11 43:11 45:16 47:23 s seating 95:21 servant 84:6 49:18 55:5 59:22 sec 92:7 serve 83:4 s 2:7 3:9 4:1 22:7 63:11 66:21 71:5 second 8:17 11:7 served 83:7,8 88:3,6 86:2 87:23 88:4 15:24 55:19 64:13 service 24:18 83:6 sad 56:3 89:8,11,11,15,19 79:19 98:1,2 83:7 safe 52:7 89:22 90:9,12,14 section 90:18 sessions 64:12 safer 56:3 90:20 91:4,13,16 92:11 set 65:15 91:18 safety 83:2,5,18,18 91:20 92:8 93:16 sections 72:8 93:8 84:5,6,8,8 94:24 96:11,12 secure 23:18 42:18 setting 91:11 93:7 sake 78:15 97:15 42:21 55:10 67:18 seven 77:9 92:12 sale 13:3 rights 86:20 see 11:21 13:8 92:15 sales 54:18,21 90:3 risk 67:22 19:5 23:3 36:13 severe 34:17,17 salvaged 48:18 river 83:11 37:6 39:22 47:13 shaft 92:17 sat 28:22 71:3 road 7:5,6,7 8:2 52:2 53:13 54:10 shame 56:8,18 satisfy 12:3 9:5,10,12 10:17 56:3 61:7,15,16 66:21 71:7 save 10:6 34:15 15:7 16:9,12 62:12 65:22 69:6 shape 63:5,19 82:1 60:18 66:12 69:13 28:11 52:6 71:23 70:23 71:6 72:5,6 share 43:1 78:5 71:9 87:3 78:23 88:6,7,8 72:7 73:21 76:22 shed 40:4 saved 10:9 43:14 91:2 82:3 90:8,15 91:6 sheet 97:4,7,8 43:15,15 73:17 roads 16:6,8 91:4 91:17 92:3,4,8,9 shelter 62:8 saving 60:11,15 rocks 51:7 92:13 95:6 96:2 shelton 2:19 71:16 61:17 role 24:16 seeing 45:18 71:17 74:22 85:19 saw 11:3 61:23 roll 4:7 seek 9:3 shift 27:14 71:6 roof 41:4 50:20 seeking 80:10 short 23:24 saying 28:23 34:13 51:13 55:19 63:9 seen 27:19 37:10 shortly 29:3 92:4 48:16 67:8 94:22 63:12,18 72:21 37:13,18 55:17,18 show 9:8 11:12 says 10:16 18:18 room 4:6 68:14 66:9 79:1 15:11 81:13 66:22 95:22 sell 10:20 27:5 showed 4:20 school 28:17 88:8 rot 63:15,15 65:14 shown 46:15 74:6 scott 2:4 22:11,12 rotting 63:13 sellable 35:11 shows 80:5 89:18 24:3,10,15,22 25:4 roughly 28:16 send 21:15 92:23 25:9 26:9 27:2,15 route 89:8,21 sends 81:5 shrubs 92:3 27:18,22 28:1 90:23 91:4 30:13,16,18 32:14 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[shrunk - stop] Page 19
shrunk 25:23,24 sitting 43:10 71:3 south 7:6 22:17 st 22:3 shuffle 91:12 96:12 63:23 70:12 88:7 stacey 1:21 4:16 sic 26:4 situation 71:24 southeast 32:1 staff 78:8 79:23 side 7:6 21:24 22:1 81:16 82:11 93:1 49:18 stairway 61:19 26:22,24 31:15 six 59:8 83:13 92:3 southern 52:21 63:16,17 32:1 62:21 65:19 92:5 southwest 22:1 stand 50:7 88:7 92:6,8,19,23 slap 70:20 86:13 space 52:6 64:20 standard 12:16,16 92:23,24 slats 62:12 64:21 92:17 12:19 sidewalk 92:18 slipped 11:6 speak 5:15,16,16 standards 12:19 siding 61:10 small 52:5 62:15 21:2,5 36:13 37:4 standpoint 83:3 sight 51:18 71:6 63:8 64:11 65:11 37:8,21 47:23 84:3 signature 99:6 smaller 26:21,23 49:22,24 50:2 stands 45:13 50:3 signed 12:9 31:12 27:9,11 61:18 51:1,19 55:2 50:4 53:1 significance 14:5,7 smallest 25:18 58:19 59:1,5,19,23 start 18:23 69:16 14:21 17:7 35:14 27:12 65:19 71:14 76:24 89:1 46:16 52:19 70:12 social 51:2 speaker 4:19 5:23 started 22:19 significant 11:19 society 2:17 60:2 18:21 21:11 31:21 29:11,16,22,23 25:19 29:7 35:22 soft 63:17 32:2,5 34:5 49:20 39:3 40:10 46:9 36:1 41:6 46:16 sold 10:23 13:16 53:5,15 84:13,18 47:8 79:17 83:13 75:12 41:14 63:3 90:10 92:13 93:10 starting 56:16 significantly 25:12 solid 61:6 93:12,17,19 94:1,5 79:15 26:1 solution 76:7,12 95:5 96:7 97:3,7,9 starts 49:11 silber 1:14 6:22 somebody 55:24 97:12,14,24 98:2 state 6:8 8:20,20 18:13,20 61:21 64:7 65:14 speakers 5:19,22 24:10 32:24 33:9 silver 88:14 70:11 88:17 6:2,7 33:10,11 45:9,12 similar 33:13 someplace 57:8 speaking 8:22 56:4 60:19 61:4 54:12 64:2 65:16 49:2 58:20 84:6 74:3 single 7:9 25:16 somewhat 39:1 84:16 stated 10:15 48:12 26:14,22,23 45:18 67:23 special 60:11 71:19 73:15 45:19 57:7 74:5 son 28:15 31:24,24 specific 37:5,5 statement 49:19 92:1 32:7 74:5 specifically 23:21 statements 50:17 sir 15:16,16 30:24 soon 13:1 80:13 spend 37:2 states 12:19 36:14 37:20 71:14 sooner 42:10 spent 60:16 83:5 status 33:20 82:14 44:12 59:15 85:8 86:14,16,17 stay 89:14 sister's 16:9 86:5 87:7 split 77:12 stayed 45:6 sit 75:10 sorry 14:15 15:10 spoken 44:20 stealing 29:4 site 17:24 24:4,19 67:13 84:19 92:14 spot 17:2 60:6 stephen 4:10 29:11,12,16,19 sort 9:20 39:20 76:17 steve 1:15 56:11 77:10 90:14 55:22 94:10 spring 55:13 stop 30:6 67:4 96:10 sound 13:1 78:14 square 88:11,12 73:19 80:6 81:10 89:10,20
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[storage - things] Page 20
storage 62:14 study 79:9 surely 64:15 telling 64:6 69:2 64:14 stuff 11:3,4,5 18:3 surprised 41:7 ten 19:14 store 62:19,22 30:4 69:12 76:20 tenant 42:6,7 63:8 64:16 style 7:10 14:11,11 surround 17:14 tenon 61:7,24 stored 63:2 14:14 18:2,11 surrounded 60:7 terms 26:9 92:10 storing 62:3 22:4 35:19,21 surrounding terrible 40:16 story 26:21 55:19 73:8 38:19 51:17 76:15 72:12 straight 61:11,12 subdivision 22:17 surroundings testimony 5:24 6:6 66:7 68:7 90:16 22:22 24:5 27:5 91:18 93:8 6:17 23:24 53:24 straighten 70:9 42:15 69:10 85:21 surrounds 18:6 67:8,17 stray 55:17 88:10 suspicious 51:7 text 7:8 street 9:6,12 10:4 subdivisions 75:24 t thank 6:20,24 7:12 13:5 14:16 26:20 submission 9:6 7:19 12:1 13:19 t 1:12 62:3 99:1,1 49:19 51:1,23 submissions 9:20 14:1 17:10 18:12 table 6:8 54:2,11 55:5 submit 12:22 15:2 20:18,19 21:9,11 take 29:2 33:19 strengthen 77:4 19:6 21:13,14 21:12,18 22:9,11 42:22 61:11 68:14 strictly 58:20 30:16 34:6 38:16 30:17,18 32:18 68:20 69:3 81:23 stripped 50:12 38:24 36:3,7 38:5,6 39:4 84:7 86:3 strong 69:24 submittal 5:24 39:11 44:13 47:20 taken 11:21 23:17 structural 34:17 submitted 19:24 47:21 48:5 49:15 53:16 55:11 90:23 60:19 61:4 84:3 25:5 32:11 40:14 53:4 54:24 55:1 92:2,5,12,15,17 90:1 66:14 97:4 56:20 58:11,12 takes 71:1 72:22 structurally 10:10 sudden 46:6 59:17,18 65:16,17 talk 38:11 63:23 structure 12:20 sufficient 6:1 71:12,13,17 74:20 67:6 68:19 71:18 48:15,17 49:14 summarize 34:8 74:21,23 75:5 72:14,16 78:17 50:18,23 51:3 summary 19:19 77:1,1,2,7 79:11 talked 12:8 42:10 52:21 54:10 55:6 38:7 39:1 82:8,12,12,13,21 49:3 82:6 87:12 55:21 56:18 61:17 sunset 71:4 84:10,11,12 85:4 87:15 64:20 66:12,15,16 supervisors 24:19 87:22,23 88:17 talking 9:9 28:19 72:16 73:12 74:9 support 38:14,18 93:9 97:1,12,13,14 58:1 63:24 77:23 74:16,17 75:6 49:23 55:7 56:17 98:6 tape 68:3 83:3 85:14 87:3 75:6 theater 62:2 64:11 tax 22:3 88:8 90:24 91:7 93:7 supported 40:13 theoretically team 73:16,22,22 96:1,15 40:20 53:11 73:23 74:18 structures 22:24 supposed 73:17 thick 19:8,8 tear 46:20 23:3,15 27:4,23 sure 4:24 12:3 thing 41:10 48:3 tearing 30:1 35:16 38:15,20 18:7 20:1 24:9,12 64:13 65:8 76:16 technical 13:4 42:4 43:23 50:7 25:12 27:24 28:5 79:19 83:14 91:19 teenager 51:5 52:3 66:13 70:13 73:6 31:11 32:20 33:2 95:22 teenagers 67:3 stuck 66:18 44:14 49:20 64:14 things 7:19 11:8 tell 12:15 13:14 70:9 75:3,22 14:4 18:9 20:12 68:1 75:22,22 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[things - uses] Page 21
26:8 30:7 34:14 21:10 23:1,1,4,8 trade 8:7 u 41:20 44:9,21 23:13 25:23 26:2 trail 21:24 22:1 uh 65:2 45:5,11 46:24 28:2 37:5,6 38:10 49:17 50:4 68:24 ultimately 9:19 49:11 62:4 66:6 39:5 40:9 41:21 transcribed 1:24 10:2 38:12 74:17 77:18 79:7 42:1,13 43:24 6:7 unable 85:9 85:16,17 87:17 45:3 47:24 48:2 transcriber 99:9 unaltered 18:2 91:10 68:8 77:13,19,20 transcript 99:3 unbeknownst 42:7 think 7:22 10:11 79:13,20 85:15 transfer 86:19 uncommon 35:19 12:12 13:9 18:18 86:2,16,17,17,24 trash 11:5 29:8 understand 31:1 36:10,15 40:14,21 87:1 92:1 treat 8:14 10:8 31:10 39:23 43:17 40:23 41:19 42:17 timeframe 45:7 tree 73:11 91:20 53:24 59:10 65:4 42:20 47:16 48:18 timeframes 14:16 91:22 69:9 74:11 49:1 51:15 56:8 timeline 30:13 trees 51:17 54:20 understanding 56:18 59:16 63:9 44:20 45:14 48:16 72:4,9 59:6 66:20 68:11 70:5 times 26:4 27:21 trick 10:8 undertaken 41:13 70:14 72:18 73:3 today 6:16 7:24 tried 10:17,18 43:5 74:18 75:4,10,12 8:4,9 11:24 36:11 13:22 17:18 76:19 unfolded 47:14 75:18 76:3,7,13,19 48:17 50:17 51:22 true 8:24 99:3 unfortunate 46:11 78:3 79:19 80:2 52:11 66:17 67:17 truly 43:3 56:18 78:3 79:3 81:7,8,13 85:4 67:20 71:8 85:7 trump 81:11 unfortunately 86:13 91:8 97:4 told 10:19 28:7 try 10:6 26:8 30:5 34:24 36:12 42:7 thinking 90:12 43:9 57:18,20 30:12 37:2 42:17 42:20 43:22,23 third 64:19 77:22 53:5 75:13 76:1 45:23 49:5 60:12 thirty 25:17 tonight 66:2,3 76:18 95:24 83:22 85:15 86:2 thought 7:20 67:7 69:2,16 trying 14:24 48:24 unified 12:17 15:17 16:23 18:23 70:22 71:2 78:11 70:2 76:11 77:3 units 89:7 39:18 66:16 80:20 81:22 97:18 79:2 university 12:7 thousand 75:8 top 9:10 44:9 tuesday 1:6 6:18 unlawful 84:1 three 5:17 26:21 50:21 96:14 turn 49:7 unopened 11:7 34:20 63:8 85:20 total 5:10 turned 72:11 unsound 10:10 91:3 94:21,22 totally 43:17 55:9 twice 60:9 upstairs 62:2,16 95:2 74:11 95:13 two 5:16 15:14,22 62:23 64:18 thresh 62:19,21 touching 89:15 16:6,8 23:23 use 1:4,18 4:15,16 63:8 tough 79:4 25:17 38:15 43:15 4:17 5:6 6:23 throw 67:12 76:22 tour 10:7 66:6,11,12 73:7 11:23 12:2,24 tiles 30:1 town 65:11 67:10 78:5 79:10 80:4 13:11 16:11 35:15 tim 77:10 townhouse 25:18 90:15 91:1 63:22 64:7 80:14 timbers 61:23 townhouses 25:16 type 27:4 80:24 84:1 96:21 time 5:6,24 6:8 25:17,24 26:7,20 91:7 95:22 useful 62:4 9:17 11:15 13:23 26:21 27:8 55:6 uses 62:3 14:17 15:3 18:10
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[usual - wrong] Page 22
usual 68:22 w 30:5 38:7 41:10 wish 5:15,16,17 usually 19:18 wagons 62:20 47:13 49:6 58:10 13:15 71:14 v wait 39:16 52:12 61:17 68:18 75:19 wishes 21:1 47:22 78:24 80:2,2 55:2 59:19 65:19 vacant 72:3 83:23 waiver 8:9 81:20 82:5 90:19 wishing 21:4 vagrants 84:1 walk 55:8 93:17 witness 32:21 value 48:22 70:16 walked 27:18 ways 64:10 39:16 70:18 55:16,21 77:18 we've 9:17 17:6 witnesses 23:23 values 51:24 walking 81:17 26:3,5,7 27:9,13 won 77:20 vandalism 23:19 walks 55:11 35:10 55:10,11 wonderful 57:11 42:19 51:20 walls 50:11,22 67:8,10,12,16 74:5 wood 7:24 vandals 51:5 walton 2:2 7:16,18 74:6 87:12,15 word 73:23,24 variety 93:4 7:23 9:1 14:9,14 92:17 74:7 various 56:9 14:24 15:7,10,13 weather 41:5 words 65:11 71:18 vehicles 51:8 15:16,19,21 16:3,7 website 65:12 work 12:11 24:12 64:18 16:15,15,18,22 week 30:9 45:19 29:12,12,16,19 vernacular 35:15 17:1,4,16 18:7,15 welcome 74:22 33:3,8,8,8,14,14 91:7 18:22 19:4,7,10,13 77:4 45:16,18 46:9 version 97:5,6 19:20,22 20:1,5,9 went 11:6 13:21 70:8,19 72:23 versus 8:20 20:11,19,23 21:8,9 17:23 25:20 30:2 worked 33:12 vice 24:13 58:17 21:13 34:12 45:15 46:3 70:19 72:19 80:17 82:24 84:7 wander 83:20 55:13 56:5 61:22 86:11 88:24 victorian 22:4 want 38:24 43:9 68:5,5 77:22 workers 76:15 35:18 43:11 44:18 47:11 west 22:1 workforce 25:21 video 17:19 95:22 47:15 53:5 56:2 wet 50:13 working 9:2 33:12 view 18:17 92:11 59:23 64:2 69:9 whatnot 76:21 41:24 47:12 80:11 village 22:16 71:17 74:11 79:9 whatsoever 90:2 82:2 83:13 86:17 24:23 79:17,18 80:6,7,16 white 97:11 workout 64:12 vines 50:22 54:13 81:18 82:2,7,10,21 wide 26:20 works 78:17 virtually 92:10 87:5 90:10 93:7 wife 71:22 72:6,18 worry 81:2 visit 12:5 17:24 wanted 8:21 9:1 wilmington 33:4 worth 60:10,14 77:10 10:2,3 13:6 72:7 73:11 61:17 visitors 83:20 85:7 windows 10:10 wow 70:18 vista 9:14 wants 52:2 66:2 11:19 18:8 20:4,6 wraps 94:10 95:5 visual 76:14 68:12 20:10 30:1,2 41:5 wreck 61:22 vital 70:10 watch 68:19 51:7,12 55:19 wrecking 60:18 voiced 38:14 69:23 watched 9:17 71:4 windscreen 30:6 write 46:19 69:24 watching 45:20 winterthur 33:14 written 5:24 44:23 volunteer 83:6 water 11:10,16 wire 13:10 60:3 79:23 vote 84:15 23:20 29:5,5 wiring 50:15 wrong 70:4 75:13 vp 2:5 way 1:5 9:13 13:11 22:19 24:4 Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830 AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION 6/18/19
[x - zoning] Page 23
x zionkowski 2:14 x 3:1 45:6 49:16,17,22 52:17 xeroxes 60:21 53:9,13,19,23 54:1 54:5,9,17 y zoning 7:11 22:7 yard 55:14 89:9 88:16 yeah 15:10 16:3 16:18,22 17:23 20:5 25:12 27:6 44:13 95:3,6,7 96:13 97:10 year 25:3 29:19 51:16 55:10 56:4 56:7,12 67:5,14,15 67:15,15,16 68:17 89:5 year's 60:8 years 8:8 9:19 10:12 13:15 14:6 15:21 25:2 28:10 28:13,16 36:20,20 37:1 38:22 41:22 42:19 43:8 48:9,9 48:20 54:6 58:21 60:12 63:11 67:3 68:11 72:4,17 73:3,7 76:16 80:5 83:5,7,9,10,13 86:15 yesterday 46:3 yield 25:21 yoga 64:12 york 64:2 young 51:6 67:22 71:4 z ziegler 2:9,9 88:21 88:21,22 89:1,4 95:13,15,17,20 96:22
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