DAILY

YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THETHE SECOND THIRD MEETING MEETING OF THE OF FIRST THE SESSIONFIFTH SESSION OF THE OF THE ELEVENTWELFTH PARLIAMENTTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 14 AUGUST 2020

ENGLISHMIXED VERSION VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. NO: 193 198

DISCLAIMER Uno cial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an uno cial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The nal edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly -- Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly -- Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel -- Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) -- Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. --President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) --Vice President -Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) --Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) --Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) --Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security -Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) --Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) --Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services -Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) --Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) --Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) --Minister of Basic Education -Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology -Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry -Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) --Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

-Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development -Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) --Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) --Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) --Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry -Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) --Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. Mmadinare Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. (Opposition Whip) Tonota Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE THIRD MEETING OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 14 AUGUST, 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME...... 1-7

QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE...... 8-10

MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Commission of Inquiry on Gender-Based Violence (GBV), rape and other sexual offences...... 11-28

Friday 14th August, 2020 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

Friday 14th August, 2020 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mangwegape-Healy.

THE ASSEMBLY met at 9:00 a.m. MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) ADMINISTRATION

P R A Y E R S THEME: COMPREHENSIVE * * * * CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME MR T. MANGWEGAPE-HEALY (GABORONE CENTRAL): Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! Minister, when we went for elections in 2019, the Honourable Members, good morning. Let us start our Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) made promises to business of today with Ministers’ Questions. Honourable the voters, and one of their manifesto promises was a Mangwegape-Healy! detailed comprehensive Constitutional Review. So Mr Speaker, since elections, we saw the Minister proposing MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of procedure, Mr Bills to amend the law amongst others, the floor crossing Speaker. Thank you Right Honourable Speaker and Bill. This law speaks to the Constitution. So Mr Speaker, good morning. Mr Speaker, I do not know if the Clerk’s one would wonder if this is the comprehensive review Office and your Office realised that this question was that we have been speaking to, or we are back to the asked by Honourable Boipuso Taolo Lucas as question issue of reviewing the Constitution bit by bit. number 24 on the 15th November, 2019 and that the Mr Speaker, my question is premised on this; it has been response is there. If that is the case, why are we wasting almost ten months since the general elections, and we Parliament’s time with a question that has already been have not seen any moves in that direction as far as the answered? I have the answer with me here. The Motion comprehensive Constitutional Review is concerned. We is noticed on the same matter, but the answer is here for have not received any notice of what the intentions are, your perusal if so wish Mr Speaker. or just any update on the progress. We are only seeing bits and pieces of the review. So Minister, I want you to MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, update us on the progress, are we still going to have a this is a question on Comprehensive Constitutional comprehensive Constitutional Review or we are going Review. Honourable Keorapetse, you are saying that it to continue to review the Constitution bit by bit? Thank has been asked before, when? you. th MR KEORAPETSE: It was asked on the 25 MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL November, 2019 and it was question number 24. It was AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC asked by a Member for Bobonong, Honourable Boipuso ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Thank Taolo Lucas. I have the answer here. you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the process to review the Constitution will be determined by the outcome ...Silence… of the consultations with Batswana. The Government envisages that such consultation will be undertaken MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Keorapetse, through a Presidential Commission of Inquiry which you are right; the question was asked. The difference that is being considered as we speak. The Government is I detect is that, that was what we call a normal question. committed to a review of the Constitution of Botswana. This is a Ministers’ Question with a theme asking for That commitment appears in such documents as the more details; much more than the normal question, where Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) 2019 Election you just allow three or four supplementaries. That is the Manifesto, His Excellency the President’s State of difference I see. Honourable Minister for Presidential the Nation Address (SONA) of 18th November 2018, Affairs, Governance and Public Administration. Botswana’s Vision 2036 Document, and so on and so on. MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I was saying that the theme can go ahead since Mr Speaker, it must be appreciated that immediately you have made a ruling. Honourable Mangwegape- after the current Government was elected into power Healy will now have five minutes to present his question in November 2019, the High Court had a lot of before the Minister can answer. election petitions challenging election results in 22

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constituencies. Immediately after their completion in will travel all over the country. Therefore, given the February 2020, Botswana and indeed many countries of figures of COVID currently, it will be risky to consult the world was hit by an outbreak of COVID-19 which people. I can assure you that the process is ongoing. We the World Health Organisation (WHO) declared a global can assure Batswana that we will deliver on our promise. pandemic on 11th March, 2020. The COVID-19 outbreak I have pointed out that the Botswana Democratic Party has led to a state of public emergency being declared manifesto, as you are aware that this Government is the in Botswana for a period of six months, effective 2nd BDP Government… April, 2020 with about three lockdowns and restrictions on movement and public gatherings. As a result, the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… consultation process on the review of the Constitution MR MORWAENG: That is what we said in our will be affected. manifesto and the President also said that. The President Despite these unfortunate circumstances however, cannot tell the nation something that we cannot deliver. Government will certainly ensure it fulfils the promises Thank you. that it has made to Batswana during the elections. MR HIKUAMA: Thank you Honourable Speaker. We can assure the whole nation that the Constitution Thank you Honourable Minister. According to your Commission will definitely be set-up immediately when response, you said you are still in consultations to we are out of this pandemic. We anticipate that maybe in ensure that you establish Presidential Commission of about three/four months or so. We hope that we would be out of the woods. the Constitutional Review. There is another question which was asked by Honourable Healy on why you are Mr Speaker, consultations with Government including bringing the Floor Crossing Motion as an urgent matter all preliminary work necessary to kick-start the process whereas you are still in the process of reviewing the have started. The issuance of a Commission of Enquiry Constitution. You did not respond to that point. Further with clearly defined terms of reference are being to that, I do not think one has to go to great lengths to considered by Government. A decision will then be identify people and set terms of reference of the scope made within the confines of the law. Notwithstanding, of the review. It does not have to wait for COVID, not what I have said Mr Speaker, the process to review the Constitution is a delicate one and must be handled with even Kgotla meetings, it does not have anything to do care. We can assure the whole nation that this is one of with making trips. It requires you to make the necessary our promises which will definitely be done. Thank you preparations so that when the time is right, you start Mr Speaker. right away without being delayed by setting up terms of reference. Thank you. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you Minister. I hear the reasons you MR MORWAENG: It is indeed true that COVID mentioned such as COVID-19 and so on. One might cannot be a hindrance to making terms of reference. ask, but behind the scenes so to speak, what have you I can confirm to you that we are in the process of been doing? How far are you? What have you done? finalising terms of reference. In short, it is underway. I Have you started or COVID stopped you? Thank you. can also confirm that the President is also in the process of establishing that commission. I can assure you that, MR MORWAENG: I can assure you that at Government that process is also underway. In response to why we level, establishment of a Constitution Commission are bringing the floor crossing motion before this one is considered as I speak. This review means that the on commission, like I explained before, some laws commission has to travel all over the country. We have which were already on the table which are important cited the challenge of COVID as a hindrance. Had it been according to us, we could have carried out this and obvious such as Declaration of Assets and floor- exercise immediately after elections. In response to crossing, we made a decision to amend and pass them your question on what we are doing, my answer is, first. You must realise that when Constitutional Review this commission is being considered. Processes such is carried out, consultations of this nature require us to as drafting the terms of reference for the commission be stable in everything. That is why the law on floor are underway. Thereafter, since I am talking about crossing will stabilise everything and map the way consultation, people will be consulted. The Commission forward. The assurance is that the process is underway.

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MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you Mr Speaker. constitution of this country. Honourable Morwaeng is sidestepping Honourable Healy’s question, that instead of waiting for a holistic MR MAJAGA: Thank you Mr Speaker and good review of the Constitution, what major thing made morning. Thank you Minister and the Honourable them handpick those. We want to understand major Member who asked this important question. Minister, reasons why they left more important ones than the we have been talking about this review for a long time, th th ones they picked. What made them come up with floor I think from the eighth, ninth, 10 and 11 Parliament. crossing law instead of waiting for the review to come Some countries like South Africa and Namibia, so far to Parliament so that we can do everything instead of they have got one of the best Constitutions which they being selective? came up with not long ago, reviewing whatever. So, can you confirm to this Honourable House that you will MR MORWAENG: Constitutional Review starts with carry out this review, this important and sensitive issue, a referendum by the commission. I indicated that there through all the procedures that you have mentioned are laws which when we came into power in November during this 12th Parliament? 2019, we found a backlog of laws such as Declaration of Assets. Therefore, we felt that it is important that MR MORWAENG: I stand here today on behalf of we amend those laws which were on the table and pass Government to say that, the promise that we made as them. We could not say that we should wait for the the Botswana Democratic Party, as a Government led by Constitutional Review. Floor crossing is the same thing, His Excellency President Masisi, we will make ensure it is something that we will be able to account for when that a Comprehensive Constitutional Review is done the time comes. These are some of the things which in the best interest of all Batswana. Moreover, I assure Batswana have been consulted about and we know their Batswana that this is an ongoing process which will be views. When the time comes… carefully carried out, let me also assure Batswana that if the BDP fails to carry out those consultations... MR HIKUAMA: Point of clarification. I hear you and I can see that you really want to address the needs MR LUCAS: Point of clarification. Thank you Mr of Batswana. Nonetheless, there is something which Speaker. When I was a month old in Parliament, because brought confusion in Botswana which is Bogosi of I knew constitutional review is not for the BDP, but it Bayei. You were supposed to amend the Constitution, was simply about elections, I asked when the process you promised them that you have appointed them and of reviewing the Constitution will start. I was told that you changed along the way. I believe that is one of the it will start in a short period of time because they have most important points so, why not amend that Section as not decided on the timeframe but how it will be done. It soon as possible so that you can allow them? has been ten months and the Honourable Member does not have anything sensible to say. Firstly Honourable, is HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... it possible for the appointment of the commissioners to stop because of COVID-19? MR MORWAENG: Honourable Caterpillar, I can assure you that during the Comprehensive Constitutional LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Review, consultation will be carried out throughout this Point of order. Maybe we understand things differently country including consulting our parents in our respective or I forgot, so I thought Honourable Lucas could explain. villages. Let me also give them assurance that we will He said that he asked a question which means he was a consult all Batswana across the country. Additionally, Member of Parliament unless if he asked it elsewhere. let me explain that it will take time because we want He said that he asked it and it has been ten months now, the kind of review and consultation where all Batswana which means ever since he asked ten months ago, what take part. Moreover, we seek to have an inclusive law he asked for has not been done up to date. When did he which covers all Batswana, which unites us so that ask it? we may have peace and harmony. We have to address MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lucas continue, I do not the challenges that people have and allow everyone understand the point of order. to take part. That is the assurance that I am giving to you, go and tell the elders that Honourable Morwaeng MR LUCAS: There was no point of order just as says on behalf of the Government, consultation will be you have heard Mr Speaker. Honourable Morwaeng, inclusive. Everyone will take part in the review of the are you saying the appointment of the commissioners

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who will help us with the review has stopped because (i) how the ministry helps Batswana in improving of COVID-19? Are you suggesting that the terms of their yields since inception of Integrated Support reference of constitutional review stopped because of Programme for Arable Agriculture Development COVID-19? I believe you are not serious, nonetheless, (ISPAAD); give us the timeline as to when the commissioners will be appointed. Give us the timeline as to when the terms of (ii) if the ministry procured farm produce from reference will be drafted. You want you to categorically subsistence and commercial farmers in Botswana; clarify those because we know that you may turn back and against your words as usual. (iii) whether the country has enough food supply to MR MORWAENG: Honourable Taolo Lucas, I can last the whole year. assure you and I assure Batswana that as you said MR P. MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr that we will turn against our words Honourable, just Speaker. Honourable Minister, can you be clear and as Honourable Majaga asked, when reviewing the update this House that as the Ministry of Agriculture, Constitution, like you said that you asked in November what has been your contribution during the COVID-19 Honourable Lucas, I explained what delayed us when pandemic in terms of food security and food production? I started. I explained that one of the things which I can see that we are still importing a lot of goods from caused delay is the election petitions that we had in South Africa. As the leading ministry, I saw the Ministry 22 Constituencies. The other thing is the situation of of Trade playing a big role, offering support during this COVID-19. Fortunately, I can assure Batswana that difficult time. What was your contribution as the food even though these things caused delay, the issue of terms industry and the responsible ministry? It seems like of reference and appointing commissioners is ongoing. your contribution was not visible. I assure you that we will do what we have promised Batswana and before the end of the year, I will give you Youth participation; you should also talk to this aspect, the terms of reference and names of the commissioners. is the future bright for the youth of the country to partake in agriculture, or youth participation is poor because to HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure venture into that business, it requires a lot of investment, MR SPEAKER: There is no time left, look at the watch. which may be a hindrance. If that is the case, kindly If you want to ask you can ask, it would not be enough. explain the support you are offering them.

MR LUCAS: Honourable Morwaeng is saying that Let me not take too much time, this ministry is led by they delayed because of COVID-19, so I wanted him to the youth who perhaps in these five years can assure us that all the pending issues such as the Botswana Meat clearly state that. I realise that the Minister is using the Commission (BMC), which I recently talked about. disease as an excuse, COVID-19 does not affect terms Today I am talking about food security, will these be a of reference. There is no need to travel across the whole thing of the past? We know that the Ministry of Local country to attain terms of reference. There is no need Government is big and it is led by elderly people; you are to travel across the whole country to select names of aware that we have been complaining about Ipelegeng, Commissioners. we know what they have done in that regard. As the MR SPEAKER: Your time is up! youthful Minister, can you give us assurance in terms of food security because we have been buying goods from MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia? I will stop there DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY to give you a chance.

THEME: HOW FARMERS CAN ASSIST THE MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, COUNTRY IN TERMS OF yesterday Honourable Tshere indicated to all of us how we should use the mask. It appears we tend to forget, FOOD SUPPLY DURING THE COVID-19 but COVID does not. COVID does not forget. Let us PANDEMIC remember what we were told yesterday, and asked to do.

Asked the Minister of Agricultural Development and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL Food Security if Batswana farmers are able to support DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS the country during these trying times and if so to state: MANAKE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you

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Honourable Majaga for that question. I hope I will • Subsidised interest rates for seasonal loans, answer to all your questions because there is a lot I can administered by the National Development Bank say, but I will try to say as much as I can right now. (NDB) and Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA). Mr Speaker, farmers continue to supply the country with agricultural produce directly from their farms, while some • Implementation of cluster fencing which has so far are in the secondary production of food processing such created 36 complete clusters, and 11 more to be as millers and this became evident during the lockdown completed, thus 72 752.54 hectares complete and periods under the COVID-19 pandemic. However, I ready for production in the 2020/21 planting season. must point out that the local production capacities are I can give an example with Mosesedi, Leshibitse, not yet satisfying the national annual demands on most Masunga, Mookane and others. of the agricultural commodities. Therefore, the Ministry of Agricultural Development and Food Security is Mr Speaker, in addition to the subsidies on agricultural currently planning on building local capability and inputs, the Ministry of Agriculture continues to provide capacity on agricultural production on commodities that capacity building to farmers with other key stakeholders, Botswana has comparative advantage on. through different programmes such as Twinning which is a mentorship programme between big commercial, Mr Speaker, since the inception of Integrated Support emerging and smallholder farmers. This is evident in the Programme for Arable Agricultural Development Pandamatenga area, and soon we will be expanding to Programme (ISPAAD), the Ministry of Agricultural Mosesedi Cluster and others, through a memorandum Development and Food Security has put several of agreement with Botswana University of Agriculture strategies in place to help Batswana improve… and Natural Resources (BUAN) to provide a practical learning field for our graduates. DR TSHABANG: Procedure Mr Speaker. We cannot hear her. She is putting the paper on top of the The ministry played an active facilitation role on the microphone. procurement of local produce for the COVID-19 food basket, by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, the paper you Development from both commercial and smallholder are holding should not block your contact with the farmers during the hard times of the lockdown. gadget. Farm produce valued at P14, 033, 766.00 was directly MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Can you purchased from smallholder and commercial farmers in hear me? Since the inception of the Integrated Support all the 10 districts. of Programme for Arable Agricultural Development Programme (ISPAAD), the Ministry of Agricultural Government has also provided P200 million through the COVID-19 Relief Fund to Botswana Agricultural Development and Food Security has put several Marketing Board (BAMB) for purchasing grain for the strategies in place to help Batswana improve their yields strategy grain reserves, and it is worth noting that the by providing: bulk of the procurement has been done locally and it • 100 per cent subsidy on inputs for subsistence is still ongoing. Another one is that, there was a price farmers for up to 5 hectares on seeds, fertilizers and increase in commodities such as millet by P900.00 per tonne, thus making it P4 000.00 from P3000.00 per herbicides. tonne. • 100 per cent subsidy on the drought power for Mr Speaker, answering on the future of agricultural ploughing, harrowing and planting. development in the country, the country has never been • 35 per cent subsidy on inputs such as seeds, fertilisers this ready to facilitate sustainable food production, and and herbicides for emerging farmers of up to 150 ensure its availability and accessibility to Batswana to hectares. avert food insecurity.

• 30 per cent subsidy on inputs such as seeds, fertilisers The ministry has started to enable a conducive agricultural and herbicides for commercial farmers of up to 500 environment by analysing local production capabilities hectares. against the national demand and identifying agricultural

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commodities, which we have the comparative advantage on food nutrition related issues to avert malnutrition to produce as a country. We have also identified and also to provide guidance on our cropping plan and agricultural production zones across the country, in our production pattern. pledge to implement them through cluster farming and formation of marketing cooperatives. The ministry has also worked on agricultural land inventory which is identified chunk of unutilised and There are currently 11 Sub-Sectors with the Ministry of underused productive land with available water resources Agriculture, and our plan is to sustainably develop them to that our farming community is in need to increase food their maximum capability where they have comparative production especially the youth. We are also working advantage. Taking an example of fish production, which very closely with the Ministry of Land Management, could be produced in Chobe, Ngamiland, Okavango and Water and Sanitation Services in identifying agricultural different dams in the Central District. Another example productive land across the country. is that of the dairy production, where the plan is to Mr Speaker, on the next ploughing season, we plan build dairy veld from Otse all the way to Ramatlabama. to use technology to provide extension services by Urban farming for premium and perishable produce in using drones to measure ploughing fields to avoid cities such as Gaborone and Francistown. Horticulture Integrated Support Programme for Arable Agriculture for both vegetables and fruit production in the SPEDU Development (ISPAAD) late payments to our farmers. Region, Kgatleng and Kweneng. Livestock and small I have also been informed that drones were used in stock production in Gantsi, Kweneng, Boteti, Kgalagadi, Pandamatenga on control of the infestation of quelea Nata and other areas in Botswana. birds which were a big challenge this past ploughing season and their use has been commended as sorghum Mr Speaker, my ministry will soon publish 2020 yield had increased by 10 per cent. agribusiness opportunities in Botswana in partnership with Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency Mr Speaker, due to the challenges with provision of (CEDA) to guide their financial instructions against the extension services to farmers, we are exploring the viable business opportunities that define market food use of Information and Communications Technology trends and their contribution to the food import bill (ICT) agri-business advisory services where possible substitution. and this service will be sourced from our talented youth companies in Botswana. Mr Speaker, to ensure that there is a resilient agricultural growth, we have embarked on farmer profiling and HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… needs assessment to provide target based subsidies MS MANAKE: ISPAAD is taking the centre stage by across all the different subsectors. This is in appreciation providing collaborative production and utilisation of that farmers have varying capabilities, needs and also mechanisation for ease of production and increment of designed profile based initiatives which will promote yields for the export-led market. Amongst other things graduation across different farmer categories. Mr that we are currently doing, is examining a productivity Speaker, from farmer profiling, there would be farm subsidy to increase agricultural output and more details registrations to ensure good agricultural practices for will follow on this item as soon as guidelines are traceability purposes, for the reasons of food safety as provided. It is an exciting one. described by the Ministry of Health… Mr Speaker, this season we are increasing agricultural MR HIKUAMA: Procedure. Do you hear what you are productivity by availing value added agribusiness saying Honourable Minister? Rhythm; we do not hear service advisory, agribusiness enterprise development you. and capacity building initiatives. Furthermore, we are in partnership with the Ministry of Investment, Trade HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… and Industry to facilitate market access for farmers to cap post-harvest losses and ensure exploring of the MS MANAKE: Mr Speaker, from farmer profiling, agricultural value chains. there will be farm registrations to ensure good agricultural practices for traceability purposes for the Mr Speaker, let me assure this House that the economic reasons of food safety as described by the Ministry of recovery plan of the Ministry of Agriculture is pregnant Health and Wellness, whom we are in partnership with with opportunities for agricultural growth…

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HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… MS MANAKE: Thank you Honourable Dr Tshabang. You could have asked it in Setswana so that you do not MS MANAKE: …and we will hit the ground running have to speak English so that they can hear what we as soon as it is approved by this House which is the have for them at home. Parliament of Botswana. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… Let me close off by that I would like to draw your attention to Page 25 of the Botswana Democratic Party MS MANAKE: Drought or climate change has affected (BDP) manifesto and promise you that all the promises the entire world, and even in our country not only at that we have made will be delivered in a phased manner North East, but other places like Boteti, Bobirwa, where necessary. I thank you Mr Speaker. Kgalagadi South and Tswapong have similar problems. Just like we were saying a while back, we are still on MR MAJAGA: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. assessment through the rural development to see what Just two quick questions, Honourable Minister, in terms we can do for those places. It is not the north part only, of percentage of imports and exports, can you make a I have already mentioned about four, which are bigger variation of how much food we still import from our places and have similar problems. We will focus on neighbouring countries? The other question Honourable them after that. Minister is that you talked about CEDA but in the past, we knew that National Development Bank (NDB) was The other thing Dr Tshabang, let us focus on the question funding Batswana on agribusiness and it has done a lot. regarding cattle; we will deal with the one about the Why can you not improve the one that is only focused market when the time comes. I thank you Mr Speaker. on Batswana even though some will continue being assisted by CEDA like the land bank in South Africa DR TSHABANG: On a point of procedure. Mr Speaker, which is why they have made progress that side? Thank I think my question is relevant, it is very relevant here you. because the situation as it is now, is very bad there. I am saying the little that is left out of the drought, there MS MANAKE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. is nowhere the farmers can sell. That is a very relevant Honourable Member, I can share with you the different question. imports statistics but on average, we are importing over 50 per cent of everything that we are consuming locally. Again Minister Manake, the North, I am not talking On CEDA, if you look into the new guidelines, they are about Bokalaka, rather, the whole area there. If you really the ones that stimulate agricultural development know your Geography, I thought agriculture includes because of low interest rates, and also because right now Geography. it is a developmental bank which is very patient and MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Dr makes it really attractive for agricultural development. Tshabang, there is no one who said your question was DR TSHABANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable not relevant; it is relevant and that is why we have put Minister, I think this question is more serious than that it right at the top, we are working on it. That is what English medium answer you gave us. The northern I pointed out that when we talk about the North, we farmers are struggling as we speak. There was no are not referring to our usual North as we are used to rainfall, the drought is persistent, the community dams saying when we are in Gaborone; where we know that have dried up and they are facing a dire situation as by North we mean when you have gone to the other side we speak. I want to know the specific plan that you of Dibete. That is why I was mentioning the places that have for the northern farmers because it is evident that have been hard hit by drought. I thank you Mr Speaker. this drought, the worst in four years is going to cause MR THIITE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me start by catastrophic results. The little amount of cattle and thanking you for the fact that I managed to catch your yield that is there for the northern farmers again, there eye now Mr Speaker. is no market. Francistown Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) is closed, Maun BMC and Lobatse BMC are Minister, I heard you talking about how prepared you very far. In that context, what do you have for the are regarding food production in this country. However, northern farmers specifically because they are the worst when I look at the way things are, and the budget that affected this year? Thank you. we approved here last time; it seems your budget is too

Hansard No198 7 Friday 14th August, 2020 QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE

small to accomplish the things I have heard you saying this time we are not going to be doing a lot of talking, you would like to do. Considering the fact that the things but a lot of doing and that is when the funds will be that you want to do are highly capital intensive and they provided, because now food will be produced in the require needed infrastructure for you to realise your country. Thank you Mr Speaker. plans; my question is, will you have enough capital to achieve these things? QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE

The second thing Honourable Minister, I can see that CONSIDERATION TO EXTEND JUSTICE traditionally, the Ministry of Agricultural Development LAKHVINDER SINGH and Food Security, is always given a smaller budget WALIA’ S CONTRACT during budget allocations. The thing is, for us to do meaningful food production in our country, to feed the MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE nation, for us to have food self-sustenance, it still further WEST): asked the Minister of Defence, Justice and requires that your Ministry should be number one or Security to confirm whether the Judicial Service number two in the Budget allocations in the country. So Commission met recently to consider extension of I am wondering, have you really engaged the Minister Justice Lakhvinder Singh Walia’s contract as Justice of of Finance and Economic Development and Cabinet the Court of Appeal, Minister should further confirm for you to reach an agreement that for us to get to this whether: reality, it requires us to adequately finance Ministry of Agricultural Development and Food Security? (i) Justice Walia has reached retirement age; (ii) he was given a three-year contract after attaining Now going to my constituency Honourable Minister, I the 70 years retirement age, if yes he should heard you talking about the Special Economic Zones explain the fairness of the process of renewal; (SEZs) as well as small stock. Since we know that in our areas livestock farmers are always lamenting, you (iii) it does not undermine the law to keep recycling the have not talked specifically as to what you are going same people who by law are supposed to retire; to do to assist our farmers, to deliver them from all and these challenges. As we have farmers who have started (iv) it does not deny other Batswana an opportunity horticulture, it really shows that we can produce a lot of to serve the country and whether there are indeed food. I would like you to touch on it, and say how you Batswana lawyers/judges who are qualified to are going to assist on horticulture. Thank you. serve.

MS MANAKE: I thank you Mr Speaker, thank you MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND Honourable Member. You have talked about the Ministry SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Mr Speaker, I can confirm of Agriculture budget, that it is low, and I agree with that the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) met recently you and we are hoping that you will be here to advocate and is, as a matter of fact, currently in session as I stand for more funding or budget, that more funding or budget before this House today. I am therefore, constrained should go towards Agriculture because as a ministry, and unable to elaborate the purpose or business of the we were saying yesterday, in most of our neighbouring meeting which I am in any event, not privy to as I am not countries and others in Africa, the agreements that we a member of the JSC. have had was that most Governments have started to give (i) With respect to whether Justice Lakhvinder Singh 10 per cent of their budget to agricultural development. Walia has reached the retirement age, I can confirm We are hoping that even us, after showcasing our that, he reached the mandatory retirement age of production capacity, being output based and not just 70 years on the 30th of December 2016 while he wasting money, we will actually be able to raise more. was serving as a Judge of the High Court. The economic recovery plan is one of those things, we have agreed with the Ministry of Finance and Economic (ii) I can also confirm that subsequent to this retirement, Development, saying ‘give us the budget so that we can Justice Walia was granted an extension of contract. show you that we can be able to produce,’ and they will The extension was granted in compliance with actually be able to give us more. Let me assure you that Section 104 of the Constitution, which provides

8 Hansard No 198 Friday 14th August, 2020 QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE

that the JSC has the power to appoint and remove they have met, once a contract is available, I will be Judges. The procedure is fair to the extent that it able to answer you. I believe that contracts have been was carried out in compliance with Constitutional drafted lawfully. I cannot say that as they will be given provisions. Section 103 (4) and (5) provide that contracts, they should do so just to promote the Judicial the JSC will independently regulate its own Service Commission (JSC) or whatever, I believe that procedures and shall not be subject to the direction everything has been done according to the law. or control of any other person or authority. MR KEORAPETSE: Supplementary. Honourable (iii) In terms of Section 101 (1) of the Constitution Minister, you are not answering me about whether you of Botswana, Justices of the Court of Appeal, consider it proper for Judges to be appointed on contract unlike the High Court, are specifically eligible basis. Do you consider it proper for someone who has for appointment on contract after attaining the reached the age of 70 to continue being appointed as a age of 70 years. As such, the law has not been Judge on contract basis until they reach the age of 80 undermined. whereas there are many Batswana who qualify, some of them being judges outside the country? When we (iv) The JSC, when making recommendations for judicial appointments, acts in the best interest of talk about people like Ms Sanji Monageng, they are the administering justice. I believe that the JSC qualified, and other Batswana Judges who desire to remains mindful of the need for qualifying and serve at Court of Appeal. Is this right according to you? deserving Batswana to be appointed and will Is it also right that Judicial Service Commission never therefore continue to balance this need. I thank advertises positions of Judges of Court of Appeal? I have you Mr Speaker. never seen that advert, you can refer a single advert to me where the Court of Appeal was looking for a Judge. MR KEORAPETSE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Why so much secrecy? Why so much privatisation of Speaker. Honourable Minister, what you are saying is Court of Appeal? How long are we going to live with that Justice Walia reached mandatory retirement age in this thing? You know that for the longest time judges of 2016, which means now he is 74. Then the contract, I the Court of Appeal were white people, it seemed like a can tell you, as a matter of fact that the JSC is in the colonial institution. How long are we going to live with process of appointing him, and is taking him to 77 this situation in our country? You are saying it is the years of age. So I am saying, where is the fairness in law, that it has not been violated. Not every law is good, allowing Batswana who qualify to be Judges? Others apartheid was also a law... are already Judges, and they are competent and they can be appointed Judges of the Court of Appeal. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)…

Also, Honourable Minister, are you aware that we are MR KEORAPETSE: Do you not think this is a bad compromising the independence, integrity and public law, which can allow someone to work until they are 77, confidence in the Judiciary by keeping Judges that keep 80 without the post being advertised whereas there are getting engaged on contract basis. The person who keeps many Batswana who can occupy that position? being employed on contract, do you realise that they MR MMUSI: …(Laughter!)… Thank you Mr Speaker. do not have the necessary independence because they Like I said, I am not aware that there is a judge who is want their contract to be renewed? This privatisation of close to 80 years. You asked me about Judge Walia, I the Court of Appeal, especially by the Judge President, know that his contract was extended, but it has ended. when is it going to end, because he has long reached I cannot tell you whether his contract is going to be retirement age and the JSC also keeps renewing his extended or not because I am not privy to what is taking contracts. When is this privatisation of the Court of place at this point in time. That is what I was saying. I Appeal going to end? agree with you that when laws are not good, they have MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable to be amended. As you know that Bills are presented Member, as I have said, the JSC right now is sitting, in Parliament for amendment, at this point in time, I do so I do not know whether as we speak, they are not think that any mistake has been noticed by us or the going to give a new contract to Judge Walia or not, I JSC. All that we know is that everything has been done cannot validate that at this point in time. Maybe once according to the law. I thank you Mr Speaker.

Hansard No198 9 Friday 14th August, 2020 QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary. MR MMUSI: 80, no, I do not have that. I have not seen that law. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Procedure. Mr Speaker, there is HONOURABLE MEMBER: You do not remember a clear question which has been asked, a Member is it? saying that Court of Appeal never advertises positions. Do you have evidence that an advert was ever made by MR MMUSI: No, I do not remember it. Court of Appeal? I did not hear you responding to that HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… but I was eagerly waiting for your answer. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary. MR MMUSI: No, I do not have evidence that it has ever advertised. MR MMUSI: Yes, all that I know is that it is currently not there. MR LUCAS: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Keorapetse also asked if you see it proper to DR GOBOTSWANG: Supplementary. Thank you Mr appoint Judges on contract basis. I did not clearly hear Speaker. Honourable Minister, can you clearly tell us your response on that issue. what the intentions are at Court of Appeal? Its image and The other thing that I want to ask is that, are there any profile looks like that of a colonial institution. Does the intentions to localise the Court of Appeal bench? If fact that we have been having the same faces for many they are there, what are the timelines in terms of your years at the Court of Appeal not bother you? That is the strategic plan at the Administration of Justice? Thank question about your intentions. It is the first question. you very much. The second issues is that, we are concerned that all the MR MMUSI: Honourable Member, they are appointed people in the Judicial Service Commission that appoints on contract basis because the law has been permitting. Judges have been appointed by the President. Like I am saying, the Judicial Service Commission HONOURABLE MEMBER: Except one. is a very independent body, they know what they are looking at when they do that. We have never had any DR GOBOTSWANG: Except only one. If that is the meeting with them where they told us that they want to case, it means that the government will overpower change anything. They have been working under that that Committee at the Court of law because she is the condition. I did not hear the second one, can you kindly one who appointed them, so that it continues with the ask it again. colonial system that we see at the Court of Appeal. When is this secrecy behind recruitment, appointing HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary. people secretly without advertising going to end? MR LUCAS: The second one is are there are any Minister, please answer us. intentions to localise the Court of Appeal bench, if they MR MMUSI: …(Laughter!)… Thank you Mr Speaker. are there, give us the timelines. Thank you. Unfortunately JSC does not fall under my ministry MR MMUSI: I do not have the information of whether Member of Parliament (MP), direct that question to the we have any timelines or anything like that. If you can relevant ministry so that they can answer your question. present it as a question, I will go and find out and come I thank you sir. back to you. Thank you Honourable. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR TSHERE: Supplementary. Thank you Honourable MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, Speaker. If my memory serves me well Honourable we will now move to Motions. Honourable Members, Minister, I want you to confirm this to the House, the Honourable Boko wants to move a Motion for the past Parliament had approved an amendment to the law adjournment of this Parliament to discuss the Motion on retirement of Judges, especially the Court of Appeal which reads thus, “that the proceedings be suspended to to make it 80 years. Can you confirm that? allow for the discussion of a Definite Matter of Urgent MR MMUSI: No sir. To make it 80 years? Public Importance in terms of Standing Order 50.1.”

10 Hansard No 198 Friday 14th August, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

That matter concerns all sorts of rape and the treatment a crisis level. Mr Speaker, in January 2020, a media of women in this country. I gave him permission that release giving an overview of crime over the festive he should come to the House. Honourable Boko, can period, Botswana Police Service (BPS) indicated you quickly introduce your Motion so that when we ask that it had recorded an alarming rate of 133 cases as the Honourable Members if they agree with you that the compared to 110 registered over the same period in the House should adjourn, they would have grasped what preceding year. In February 2020, a National ‘Pitso ya you are saying and what your concerns are. Borre’ in Molepolole organised by the Botswana Police Commissioner Keabetswe Makgophe, he revealed that MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT rape cases in 2019 stood at 2265. This means that there - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT are... PUBLIC IMPORTANCE LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Commission of Inquiry on Gender-Based Procedure. Mr Speaker, I am standing on a point of Violence (GBV), rape and other sexual procedure because of what I got to learn or be informed offences with regard to this Motion. It seems that it falls between MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you Mr the Ministry for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Speaker. Mr Speaker let me on the onset state that I had Public Administration and the Ministry of Nationality, two meetings with the Parliamentary Caucus on Women Immigration and Gender Affairs. I was informed this in relation to this Motion, where I had to brief them morning that the two have to meet the mover of the about my intention of bringing it before this Honourable Motion in terms of who really should be responding House. It would be a sad day in this Parliament Mr to it. They were supposed to meet, but I do not know Speaker, if I fail to get support from the said Members what the outcome of their meeting was, which is why I of the Parliamentary Caucus on Women. am standing on a point of procedure, so that this House should know exactly who will be responding to this Mr Speaker, the Motion as stated, reads that, “this Motion. I thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable House resolve to ask the President to set up a Commission of Inquiry on Gender-Based Violence MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, as I understand it, Honourable Boko wants the House (GBV), rape and other sexual offences as a matter of to allow him to put forward the Motion. If the House urgency in terms of the Commissions of Inquiry Act allows him to do that, maybe then a question might arise Cap 05:02”. as to whether the relevant department that will deal with Mr Speaker, in terms of the study which has been carried the Motion we passed is represented in the House. I out by the World Population which was published in thought that even as we speak now, they are represented. 2020, Botswana is ranked No. 2 in the whole world I have no difficulty in seeing the relevant people in the House to respond if we read that ...(Inaudible)…For out of 120 countries on the rate of rape incidents. Mr now, the question for the House is whether or not to Speaker, Botswana has 92.9 incidents of rape per 100 allow Honourable Boko to move for the adjournment of 000 people. This study shows that in the majority of the House. Honourable Boko, if you can wrap up so that countries that have data available on rape, less than 40 we put the question. per cent of women who experienced social violence seek help, and less than 10 per cent seek help from MR BOKO: Thank you. Mr Speaker, the problem of GBV, rape and other sexual offences is not unique to law enforcement bodies or institutions. Mr Speaker, this country. It is a scourge that other African countries because many women who experience sexual violence and the world over are faced with. We have examples rarely report, they are unable to report or simply do not where, for instance, in Sierra Leone which ranks 102 come forward about these incidents, the exact rates are in the World Population Review Study, the State of challenging to report. Emergency (SOE) was declared on GBV. In South Despite these challenges Mr Speaker, Botswana’s Africa, our neighbour just here, which ranks first, the ranking in this study is alarming, disturbing and President has set up a Commission of Inquiry to get to very unacceptable. It is however not surprising. The the bottom of the GBV problem. We take leaves from Government on the statistics show that the scourge these examples and come up with solutions suited to our of GBV, rape and other sexual offences has raised to own society.

Hansard No198 11 Friday 14th August, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Our President, the President of the Republic of MR TSOGWANE: Okay. Thank you Mr Speaker. I Botswana has made statements committing to fighting made my point. the GBV and related social ills. This setting up of the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. commission, in my view presents the best opportunity for the President to demonstrate his commitment to this HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. course. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I have dealt In closing, I challenge my colleagues here in Parliament with it better. The people who can answer this Motion is Mr Speaker, to show on the Order Paper for this sitting, the VP himself, Honourable Morwaeng and Honourable any Motion that can be said to be more urgent than Mokgethi. There is a sufficient number of people charged a Motion ...(Interruptions)... life and matters of our with the responsibility, so we are going to proceed. constituents. GBV has killed and affected so many people Mr Speaker and... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Moreover, it is not his job to come and…(Inaudible)… MR TSOGWANE: Point of procedure. Mr Speaker, my question is still relevant because when you ask a MR SPEAKER: The question Honourable Members question… is…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is the Minister’s HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you undermining question. Honourable Mokgethi?

MR TSOGWANE: Wait, I told you that the Minister MR SPEAKER: No, he is not undermining anyone. He did not tell me whether who is supposed to respond to is saying, they were supposed to talk. I do not know the question between the two. what you are saying.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is your job, he does HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)... not have to tell you. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ah! u no ti riya (he is delaying us). MR TSOGWANE: Listen Honourable Moatlhodi. Normally if there is a Motion in the House and the one MR SPEAKER: No, VP is saying they were supposed who is supposed to respond is unavailable, most of the to meet, talk and decide who will respond but that part time it does not go through. So, it is very important from is none of my business. the onset to know who is responsible for the Motion HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are talking like I said, that between them they said they will talk productivity here Mr Speaker. and meet with Honourable Boko. They never had an opportunity to know that after meeting Honourable Question put and agreed to. Boko who will respond to the Motion. MR MMOLOTSI: On a point of procedure Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. Speaker. Thank you very much. Perhaps I should put the House to order especially that it seems like this MR TSOGWANE: I am standing on a point of will never end. Mr Speaker, when we say Leader of procedure Mr Speaker. the House, we are referring to Leader of Government Business. In that manner, we do not expect Leader of MR SPEAKER: No! No, he is standing on a point of Government Business or Leader of the House to come procedure himself. here in Parliament and ask who is responding to the MR TSOGWANE: Be patient or be a patient. Mr Motion. This is his responsibility and therefore, we Speaker, this is important because the Motion cannot expect him to know the Member who is responding to proceed if the mover is not present. If there is no the Motion before coming to the Parliament. clarity similar to this one, I see you pointing this one, MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Mmolotsi, Honourable Moatlhodi is pointing… order! We have passed that station, we are no longer dealing with that issue. The House has just approved HONOURABLE MEMBER: I cannot see anything. that the proposed Motion by Honourable Boko can now HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. be debated with a maximum of two hours.

Hansard No198 12 Friday 14th August, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Order! Order! Honourable Members, the question Mr Speaker, this ranking places our country in a bad is, “that this Honourable House resolves to urge His light internationally, and we will have a negative impact Excellency the President to set up a commission of on our attempts to draw Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) inquiry on Gender Based Violence, rape and other and tourists to this country. It tells a different story from sexual offences, as a matter of urgency, in terms of the the story we want to tell to the world. It also tells the Commissions of Inquiry Act Cap 05:02. Honourable world that we do not care about the safety and security Boko, you can present your Motion. of women and other vulnerable groups in our society.

MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you. Mr I reiterate Mr Speaker, this problem has reached a crisis Speaker, the COVID-19 pandemic has also added to the level, and requires the urgent attention and the highest challenges relating to Gender Based Violence (GBV), level of leadership. Well researched comprehensive bringing the problem shaper into focus and increasing structures and all-encompassing solutions need to be the urgency with which solutions need to be found to found to address the problem. A multi-disciplinary arrest the situation. commission across all stakeholders which will make well-informed and well-timed recommendation to The police crime statistics Mr Speaker, indicated the Government, is in my view the only effective way that during the first lockdown, while offences such as forward. murder showed a downward trend, there was actually an increase in the reported sexual offences, despite the Mr Speaker, we have had commissions on land, the lockdown. Domestic violence actions in terms of the Botswana Meat Commission (BMC), Education and the Domestic Violence Act were among actions deemed to Judiciary, just to name a few. We have had a taskforce be extremely urgent in terms of paragraph 2.3.3 of the that had to deal with issues that have been identified as directions on court operations during the COVID-19 slowing and threatening our progress as a nation. Gender State of Emergency, Practice Directive of the 1st of April Based Violence on the contrary is not slowing progress, 2020. Despite Section 20 of the Domestic Violence it is a very serious and growing problem. Even stock Act mandating the Registrar of the Court to maintain theft Mr Speaker, has the attention of our police force, a register of all applications filed under this Act and all with a taskforce set up to combat the cattle rustling, other made thereunder, there has been no comprehensive that is the ‘Kgomo-Khumo.’ We have not seen anything data obtained by Government to monitor and evaluate remotely similar to focus on GBV, yet it concerns our such registers. children, sisters, mothers, and in some instances our men and brothers. The magnitude and complexity of the Despite this Mr Speaker, civil society organisations note problem needs attention of the President of this country. that during the lockdown in April, Women’s Shelter and legal practitioners addressed over 100 cases of domestic The problem of Gender Violence (GV) Mr Speaker, rape violence, (this is not a joke), which included physical and other sexual offences is not unique to this country abuse, sexual abuse and threats thereof. This is clearly an as stated before, it is a scourge that other countries and urgent need, or there is clearly an urgent need to attend the world over are faced with. We have examples where to these issues Mr Speaker. These statistics induces a for instance in Sierra Leone, which ranks 102 in the sense of shock, it should cause panic, and we should act World Population Review Study, a State of Emergency on it Mr Speaker. The statistics show that the laws and was declared on GBV. In the Republic of South Africa, other strategies currently in place are not effective. Even which ranks number one, the President has set up a this Motion is admittedly coming late in the day looking Commission of Inquiry to get to the bottom of the GBV at the number of people that have suffered and continue problem. We can take a leaf from this country, and learn to suffer, but we need to do something. something from this country Mr Speaker. Our President has made a commitment to fight Gender Based Violence We cannot wait any longer to source solutions and strategies against GBV, we would have failed the people and related ills. The setting up of a Commission of of this country Mr Speaker. We have failed the women Inquiry in my view presents the best opportunity for the and children of this country. We have failed the youth President to demonstrate his commitment to this course, of this country who have been shown to be the most if indeed he was serious that he wants to fight Gender affected by this GBV. Based Violence.

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In closing Mr Speaker, I challenge my colleagues here in Motion before this Honourable House. Mr Speaker, Parliament, I plead with them, I want them to understand the issues of Gender Based Violence (GBV) are multi- this, this is not a political issue, it is not about me. I want sectoral. They are issues of multiple levels and multiple them to understand that this is about our girl children stakeholders. It has not been clear whether this Motion in Mogojogojo, Palapye and Mookane. This is about is directed at my ministry or Honourable Morwaeng’s ministry. However, what I want to just indicate Mr our mothers, sisters; this is by no means about me, it is Speaker is that this Motion, while I appreciate its about all these people. So, something Mr Speaker, has magnitude and its importance, I do not appreciate the to be done. That is why I plead with them this morning urgency of this matter, such that it should be brought that let us support this Motion with all our hearts. Let to this House on urgency. I would respectfully request us seek deep in our hearts. Let us all agree that this is a this Honourable House that this Motion be deferred to challenge, this is a serious problem, and something must next week Friday. As I said, it is a Motion of national be done. importance such that this Honourable House should break into a General Assembly for all the Members It will be a sad day Mr Speaker, as I have stated before if to first meet and appreciate all the issues which are anyone can stand up and say he is opposing... involved. There are many matters which have been brought before this House but before the Motions were HIS HONOUR THE VICE PREISDENT (MR dealt with in Parliament, Members of Parliament (MPs) TSOGWANE): On a point of clarification. The go into the General Assembly and discussed it at that clarification I want to seek from the Honourable Member level. I would therefore, Mr Speaker, respectfully, is that, the matter that he has brought here, is it not being request this Honourable House to defer this matter to interrogated by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), next week Friday, so that we can clarify the issues and that even the Commissioner was interrogated on this who should deal with the Motion. matter at PAC. Is it the same matter or not? MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. MR BOKO: I am not a Member of the PAC and you Mr Speaker, my concern, I rise on a point of order because are not, I do not know how PAC is related to this serious if you look at the reading of the Motion by Honourable matter. We are serious here His Honour, Our Vice Boko… I am saying this because of what Honourable President, we are talking about serious matters. I think Mokgethi is saying, that she wants this matter to be at times we should put our petty... deferred, so that they can know who will deal with this matter in terms of whether it is for her or Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Morwaeng. Mr Speaker let me explain that, the Motion MR BOKO: Mr Speaker, I was simply trying to say is very clear, it talks about “Commission of Inquiry on this is a serious matter, this matter has got nothing to do GBV, rape and other sexual offences, as a matter of with the PAC. I think once in a while; we should show urgency, in terms of the Commissions of Inquiries Act.” The moment you say, “in terms of the Commissions a level of seriousness when we come to this House. We of Inquiries Act”, it is in the Presidency. There is no should demonstrate it, especially a person holding a other. Motions came here before, seeking inquiry on position of a Vice President. I thought and I expected land, Minister in the Presidency responded because it him to be shouting at the top of his voice supporting this is in terms of the Commissions of Inquiries Act. If it Motion. I am disappointed that now he wants to derail is in terms of the Commissions of Inquiries Act, it is a me on a matter of this magnitude, on a matter as serious matter in the Presidency. The President is the one who is as this one. Anyway, history will judge you harshly. Mr empowered in terms of that Act to set-up a Commission Speaker, that is the end of my presentation. I move. of Inquiry and decide whether it sits in camera or in public, whether the report is released or not, it is up HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... to the President. I do not know where the confusion is MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, because I think this thing is very clear. This thing is not a the floor is open. matter for the office of Honourable Mokgethi. The only role she can play is to assist the President to appoint a MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION Commission of Inquiry and perhaps advise who can be AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): Thank appointed as Commissioners. She can assist in drafting you Mr Speaker. I want to just stand up, appreciate and the terms of reference but it is a matter of the Presidency. thank Honourable Boko for presenting this important That is very clear to me.

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MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Keorapetse, and appreciate that this matter is weighty. It is going maybe I did not understand the Minister well. I thought to elicit huge interest from the members of the public. the Minister was saying, let us postpone the debate on There are various pieces of legislations that have been this Motion to next Friday, so that in between, Members passed by this House that touches on the same subject in this House can be briefed about what is involved. I matter. Because of the seriousness of this matter, and if thought that is what she is saying, not that the Motion our colleagues from the opposite side believe that this is cannot come because they have just consulted. You a very serious matter and they are interested in helping remember I said, when Honourable Boko sought my the affected members of the public, then it is only better permission to bring this Motion, I saw it as a national matter. In Botswana, we have been told to be number that we do defer this matter as Honourable Mokgethi has two of violence against women; it is not a funny thing. requested, to next week Friday. There is something wrong with our people and so to me, Firstly, they have acknowledged that the mover of the I gave it the green light. It is a serious matter and unless Motion, Honourable Boko, has met with the Women’s somebody tells us a good reason why it is should not be Caucus in Parliament but they have not met with the rest debated. All that Honourable Mokgethi is saying is that she is putting it to you as the House. Let us allow her to of the Members of Parliament for them to appreciate the articulate herself, so that if she is moving a Motion, then seriousness of the matter. That is only what Honourable you will know what she has been saying and you can Mokgethi is asking for Mr Speaker, to defer to next judge her on the basis of properly understating where week Friday, so that every Member of this House at she comes from. least will have an opportunity to be able to appreciate the seriousness of this particular Motion that is been MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure, Mr Speaker. Mr presented before this House and it…(interruptions)…. Speaker, my worry is that Honourable Boko met with the Women’s Caucus twice. That is the first point. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure. Secondly Mr Speaker, we know that in terms of the Standing Orders, which I believe Honourable Mokgethi HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. wants to stand on, is to request this House for deferment MR MTHIMKHULU: I am standing on a matter of which for me is just a delaying tactic. Mr Speaker, I procedure, if you can just give me time to finish, the know that once she has moved, the ruling party will same way we afforded you an opportunity to make out abuse its majority and vote that we defer this matter. So your case on procedure; behave yourselves and let us I plead protection from you Mr Speaker of the minority talk. If you are serious about the welfare of Batswana, because this is an important matter as you have rightly allow us to speak so that we understand each other rather pointed and as you have rightly allowed into the House. than making noise when we speak. If you want to help I do not believe that the majority should be allowed to Batswana, despite our numbers this side, we will debate, use their numbers to defer this Motion. This Motion is hold and then defeat the Motion. It will not benefit urgent as you have realised Mr Speaker. I plead for your Motion. It will not be of any use to Batswana, we want… protection to not allow what Honourable Mokgethi is attempting to do for this Motion to be deferred until next HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. week Friday. MR MTHIMKHULU: Allow me to speak, we are Honourable Boko has met their committee, made his a ruling party and we are in the majority and you... intentions clear before he came here. There is no rocket (Interruptions)…let us speak. We are not in … science here; there is absolutely nothing complicated here. They bring matters here often without having to HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Murmurs)… go through the General Assembly, what will be special about this one? MR MTHIMKHULU: … coalition with the opposition.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu! Honourable AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC Mthimkhulu! I am standing, I have taken the floor… ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker. We do acknowledge HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Murmurs)…

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MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu, you cannot HONOURABLE MEMBER: Or you gave it to stand while I am standing. I do not know what the Honourable Mokgethi. problem is! HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is insulting us. MR SPEAKER: I do not know what the problem is. Listen! The Honourable Member on the floor has HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. every right to move any legitimate Motion, so that is MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi… right, whether in fact, having done that, that is going (Inaudible)… the floor. I am standing. The way you are to be allowed or succeed it is another matter, so let us making noise both sides of the House, it will be difficult not quarrel about her right to move, she has it. We can for me to hear whether any Member is insulting others. then deal with that Motion whilst it has been moved. I HONOURABLE MEMBER: …but you have heard thought we will make some progress. What I thought him, we heard him saying we are howling. He is even we will do, depending on what she does is to hear other repeating it and you are allowing him… Members before we even decide whether this Motion can be debated or should be moved, so that they can give HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… their reasons. If we do not allow other Members to react MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi, if you are to the Motion if she moves it, we will now not know going to accuse me, when I have already told you that I where our procedure is, it should be sequential. I would did not hear him, I am going to take you out. There are ask you Honourable Members to allow Honourable orders here to be followed. Mokgethi to debate, finish and let us see what she is proposing and then we will have time to react to it. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. When they MR SPEAKER: I thought I had put forward a simple interjected, I was still making my presentation Mr proposal which would see us making progress. What I Speaker…. did not appreciate from Honourable Mthimkhulu was that he can threaten you that now they are going to use HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. their numbers to refuse a Motion, that is illegitimate HONOURABLE MEMBER: …then they started because if you say that, you are now saying I do not making noise. want to listen to your arguments, I am just going to use the numbers and definitely he cannot speak on HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr behalf of any Member here as if they have caucused Speaker. that they are going to defeat the outcome. That is why HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Honourable Mokgethi is saying she wants time so that all the Members of the House can have a common MR MTHIMKHULU: Procedure. Mr Speaker, when I understanding of the issues involved as I understood was speaking earlier on, they interrupted me, they were her. Honourable Mthimkhulu, you stood on a point of howling on the other side, and I ended up keeping quiet. procedure and now it appears to me that you are not doing that anymore, you are doing other things which HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. apparently provoke other people to make noise. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MTHIMKHULU: Yes sir, I was saying, I want to MR SPEAKER: Do not worry, we will get him to order. wrap up my point of procedure and sit down because before I finished, they interrupted me, and then you HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is saying we are stood up. howling and you are allowing him? HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Did you hear the point MR SPEAKER: I did not hear him. of order Mr Speaker?

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LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): to me like you are doing, and he says hey you! What do Procedure. Mr Speaker you are saying the right thing, you call that in English Mr Speaker so that I can use the really some things should be done accordingly. I do not right word? If I offended them, I want to withdraw that agree with Honourable Member that it seems like we are word because I think that as we are in this House, we going to use the majority, but on the same note I do not are Honourable Members. In as much as I should use agree with Honourable Keorapetse that when he took the right words to address them, when I am on the floor the floor, he requested the minority to be protected on and I have been given an opportunity to address the an issue that is straight-forward, which is in order as per Speaker, on any point they should also owe me that duty the Standing Order, and then he says they are going to of respect and conduct themselves well in this House use their majority. This is abuse of people having been rather than shout at me. If I offended them Mr Speaker, I elected to this Parliament in big numbers, and they are will withdraw, and I will also continue saying that, since being abused here only because it is said that voters have I was given a chance, they should not twist my words spoken in many numbers, so the majority will be used to and say I stated that I am going to oppress them, I was either oppose or approve the Motion, this is out of order replying to what was said by Honourable Keorapetse Mr Speaker. This is what creates problems here because when he provoked us, saying we are oppressing them Honourable Keorapetse took the floor first asking for because we are the majority. Yes, we are many in protection, but we know that the minority is there in the Parliament, we are ruling and also...(Interruptions)... Standing Order, there is somewhere it is used. When because we are the majority in Parliament. the Honourable Member requests for adjournment, you cannot say we should leave the Standing Orders because If we ask for a deferment, which was requested by a they are going to use their majority, this is not in order. Minister who deals with Gender issues, saying she needs to go and inform the Members of Parliament HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. regarding Gender and sex offenders Bills and so forth, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. and then a Member stands up and says, ‘you want a deferment because you want to abuse the Bill.’ He HONOURABLE MEMBER: I would to clarify is trying to appeal to the public to accuse us, that… something. (Interruptions)…we are playing with the emotions of the public of not being good people. That is not proper MR MOATLHODI: Point of order. I thank you Mr Mr Speaker. Speaker. I heard him Honourable Mthimkhulu with my ears, saying to all of us at this side of the House that, we Therefore, when we stand up to speak in Parliament should stop howling at him. Mr Speaker, Standing Order we also have a duty to show Batswana that what the 58.11 says every Member of Parliament here should Honourable Member was doing is not right. conduct themselves with good manners and respect. I request that you take action against him. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Point of order. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu, I asked a MR SPEAKER: Let me deal with the point of order simple question, whether you used the words howling, that has been raised. As I indicated, I did not hear and I think you confirmed that you did, whatever him, so I am going to do it by asking him. Honourable provoked you. All I request is that, just simply with no Mthimkhulu, you are an Honourable Member of this excuses, withdraw it. House, you know the rules, are you a Motswana, did MR MTHIMKHULU: I withdraw Mr Speaker. you use the word howling? If you did, my advice to you would be to withdraw it, but the first question is, since I MR RAMOGAPI: Point of order. No, Mr Speaker, did not hear you, those who heard you say you used the those of us who are humble, who listen to you very word howling, did you use it? well are actually finding it hard. When you order us to sit down, we do so without arguing with you. So, I MR MTHIMKHULU: Mr Speaker, I was speaking and am requesting that the Honourable Members should people all stood up to shout at me, maybe the English acquaint themselves with Standing Order 131.2, it is word I used to tell a person that they are shouting at me very clear Mr Speaker, and it states that, “your ruling is wrong. If I am speaking and someone does not listen is final.”

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I mean, you would make a ruling, if I may give an That being the case, the abuse that we suffer on a daily example as you have made a ruling that, Honourable basis through the words that fly across this isle, please Mokgethi should go ahead and debate, so they will be call for some order Mr Speaker, then we will have to violating your ruling if that does not happen. Honourable agree that whoever goes against that agreement, should Mthimkhulu, if I have called your name correctly would give us space because like I said last time, our behaviour just stand up and start talking, and you would allow him is a reflection of the society that we are leading. If this is to do so. what we were elected to do, I take it that this House now is becoming very disorderly. That is why I am saying, some of us who are humble, who listen to you with respect are in trouble and we will I heard my uncle, Honourable Moatlhodi saying he will never be called to speak in this House. I am pleading with not allow that to happen. If one does not want certain you Honourable Members, let us adhere to the ruling words to be used against them then certainly they should made by the Speaker, his ruling is final. He has given also not use such when talking to others. the floor to Honourable Mokgethi, so let us respect that, I do not know what is wrong with us debating issues and because if we do so we will also be respecting ourselves. differing yet without verbally attacking each other and I am pleading with you Honourable Members. shouting because, people are watching us; that is why MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR I initially said I am embarrassed, because I am part of PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT this Honourable House. For me to sit here and seem to be tolerating what is going on in this House on a daily (MR BALOPI): Mr Speaker, I am rising on the same basis, being perpetrated by adults who were elected by point that Honourable Moatlhodi had previously rose people is really embarrassing Mr Speaker. on, the Standing Order 58.11. I am worried and I am actually embarrassed sitting here, to see so much I am just requesting once and for all that, we should hypocrisy amongst us as the leaders of the country. create an environment whereby when people are What is happening now, just recently I was on the floor watching us, they would truly believe that we are when Honourable Keorapetse referred to us as voting advocating for them, and we will do things which are cattle. a reflection of who they are, that they have sent us here to take positions which they agree with. Therefore, Mr Speaker, right now I have just been listening to Mr Speaker, I plead that we should have decorum as Honourable Tshekedi Khama saying that, we want to dictated by Standing Order 58.11, and as dictated by our refuse this Motion because we beat our wives, that we ethics, principles and ideals as Batswana. I thank you beat our women, he has been saying that. Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR BALOPI: So this is what I am requesting Mr MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members. Speaker, some of us... I do not think anybody could have put it better. If at all you have been listening, if we are proper Batswana, HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... you cannot put it any better. Coming to this House could MR BALOPI: This is what I am talking about; some never be an excuse to forget where we come from, it people believe that they have a right Mr Speaker… should never be. The Standing Orders have never been Please listen…Mr Speaker… meant to take over from the upbringing which we were given, they should never be. I said it at the beginning of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... this session. MR SPEAKER: Please keep order! Honourable Balopi I can understand somebody in the heat of the moment, is the only one who has the floor. making a mistake being tempted, and using a word which MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, I plead for their audience, they then regret and withdraw. But to deliberately come because some us in this House have the ability to use and join a debate you do not even understand where it derogatory language, but that is not how we have been came from, and throw words to other Members which taught, because there is a saying that, mogoa dira, o a are not taking this House anywhere, either wasting time, bo a di ikgoela. (when you wish or speak maliciously and time does not stop, as we sit here, tomorrow it will about other people, you also invite it upon yourself). be Saturday, whether we like it or not, time moves.

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I say this because Honourable Members, we still have MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse, you are right, the National Development Plan (NDP) 11 business. I have no problem with that at all. The Standing Orders The Business Committee is going to look at it, and re- are clear. determine how long this Parliament is going to go on. Everything that we do that wastes the time which should MR KHAMA: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. be put on matters on the table. Thank you Mr Speaker. I want to understand something. This Motion came on a matter of urgency; gender based So I plead with you Honourable Members, let us violence. The Vice President Tsogwane attempted to remember that we are Batswana and where we are stop it. I want to ask one question; are you saying that coming from. There are certain principles that a women and children who are abused are not important? Motswana child has to uphold. Orderly, there is nothing Are we saying as we have come out of a lockdown that stops you from disagreeing with Honourable Mmusi that there is no likelihood that anybody will be abused here, and then from there he would say, ‘I can hear that between now and next week Friday? Are we saying that you do not agree with me but do not insult me”, those who are abused, it does not matter; they should I hope Honourable Members we can allow Honourable continue not to be heard until next week Friday? Is that Mokgethi to finish her debate, so that we can deal with what you are saying? anything which arises from her debate. That way we My concern here Mr Speaker, is that this Motion was move forward. tabled by a Member of the Opposition. It is okay but MR KEORAPETSE: Point of procedure. Mr Speaker, collectively we are representing people. So, we need I request you to make a ruling on two points. The first to indicate to people that we want to debate this issue one is about the issue that I have raised regarding the because Botswana’s rating on it is shocking, if not at the Minister responding. I can see that Honourable Mokgethi best awful. In fact, let me go beyond and say frightful. has been given 20 minutes. It presupposes that she is the one who is responding. In light of what I raised earlier, So, when Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) members the Motion is clear because the commission must be say that it should not be debated today, that it should appointed in terms of the Commissions of Inquiries Act. be deferred to next week Friday, what are they saying That is the first thing. about women and children who are being abused? This is something that we need to address. The second thing Mr Speaker, I was perfectly in order in requesting protection from the Speakership. Every HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Member has a right to say, ‘I move that we truncate the debate.’ when the debate is ongoing. As the Speaker, MR KHAMA: Wait, you will have a chance to debate! you can use the discretion to say, ‘notwithstanding your I think they should also be aware of the fact that any right to move that we truncate, I am not going to allow postponement of anybody who has been assaulted the debate to be truncated because in my view, I can see by someone is their responsibility because they are that the Honourable Members want to debate. postponing this issue. That is all I am saying. Thank you.

In the same way Mr Speaker, I am appealing to you MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, we have gone because you have accepted the Motion by Honourable past the hour. I do not want to quarrel with the doctors Boko, that it is urgent and a matter of national importance. I believe that Honourable Boko has done but I want to say this; I have said Honourable Mokgethi enough to consult. That is why I am asking for your as I understood her, she wanted to move that this Motion protection. I am still repeating myself that we need should be debated next Friday. She was trying to give protection against majority because they are now using the reasons why she thinks that would be beneficial. I the Standing Order to say let us defer. That is all that I said it is proper to listen to what he is saying so that am saying. I do not believe that I have sinned because it when we agree or disagree with her, we would have has been used in the past that even when a Member has heard her so that whoever asks you about why you voted the right to ask others to vote to truncate, looking at the this way or that way, you should have a clear conscience numbers that he/she has, sometimes the Speaker can say in answering. That is all that we need. Everyone will no, not this time because the debate is still ongoing. So, it is in the same understanding. have time to debate that but let us hear her out. You

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cannot say that she is saying there is no urgency before MR BOKO: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. Thank she completes here arguments. I do not think it follows, you Mr Speaker. We should understand each other so it is a non-sequence. It cannot follow. that we know our stand when we continue. Earlier on Honourable Keorapetse explained brilliantly. I thought Honourable Members, let us obey the doctor’s advice, that the Honourable Speaker understood him when he in fact, instruction, and take the 30 minutes break. When said this issue is not under Honourable Mokgethi but we come back, Honourable Mokgethi, I will allow you under Honourable Morwaeng’s ministry. to finish what you started so that we hear ouy clearly. Maybe Honourable Speaker can come out clearly and PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 11:03 A.M. FOR explain that he does not agree with what Honourable APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES Keorapetse is saying that this is Honourable Morwaeng’s PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 11:33 A.M. matter. We want a ruling in relation to that, so that as we move on, we know that this matter falls squarely in the MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION office of Honourable Mokgethi. Mr Speaker, maybe you AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): could clarify that. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, there is an ill motive which has been imputed to me that I intend to MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, throttle this Motion. I wish to assure this Honourable Honourable Mokgethi is quite right and you know it House that I have no intention whatsoever and my Honourable Members. Her ministry is charged with request for a deferment is not motivated by the desire to gender matters. Whether you want an enquiry by the throttle the Motion President or by whoever, her ministry is charged with gender issues, to the extent that she wants to put forward Mr Speaker, I am the Minister responsible for the reasons why she needs time to reflect and reflect with promotion of gender equality and the development of you. She is quite right. women and the girl child. My ministry is the one which MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, I think the is vested and inundated with these issues. My ministry Minister wants to confuse people deliberately because is responsible for giving guidance on policy matters she has been explaining that for Honourable Boko to relating to gender based violence. Therefore, there is no have met with the Parliamentary Caucus on Women, is way that I can stand here before this Honourable House proof that there is confusion when it comes to women’s and throttle a Motion which is of such fundamental issues. The truth is, the Parliamentary Caucus on Women importance to this country. Why would I throttle a matter in Parliament is not only exclusive to women because which is of such weighty importance? There is no way Honourable Motsamai is a member of that committee that I can do that. I am a woman just like there are other but he is a man. Unless if he looks like women, but he many women in this society who are concerned by the is a man. issues of gender based violence. However, gender based HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… violence does not just affect women. That is why we say gender… MR SPEAKER: I see that you want to knock off without debating this Motion. Is that what you want? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND MS MOKGETHI: Honourable Boko said he met the WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Procedure. Parliamentary Caucus on Women. There was no reason Thank you Mr Speaker. Maybe in response to what was for him to just isolate and call women and talk to them said by Honourable Boko, let me say, when a Motion about his intended Motion. That is because we have is passed by Parliament, the responsibility now goes a misplaced understanding of what gender is. Gender to Government. Government will decide on who goes encompasses both men and women. The research my with the Motion. I believe that all Ministers are here, let ministry has done Mr Speaker, indicates that gender this Motion proceed and give the Minister here a chance based violence affects 30 per cent of women and 21 per to respond. Some of us from Letlhakane, this issue on cent of men, which just goes to show that gender based gender tops the list and now we have Corona. If we were violence affects all people in society, whether we are using Corona standard, Letlhakane could be a red zone. talking about men or women. Now let the Honourable Minister respond.

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MS MOKGETHI: Mr Speaker, what I want to we had our first meeting with Honourable Boko. He emphasise is that, rather than calling a select group said he has a Motion and is therefore asking for our of people who are members of the Parliamentary support. We sat down with Honourable Dow who has Caucus on Women, I was motivating that the entire been involved in these issues for years. In that meeting, Parliamentary Members meet in a General Assembly, we agreed that since this is a women’s issue and as so that we can talk and sensitise the Honourable we go to Parliament, we must know that there is the Members on the various policies and laws which are justice aspect, Honourable Mokgethi’s office and others in place. So that when we debate, we can debate from inundated with women’s issues. Therefore we must an informed position, knowing what the Government know that as we go to Parliament, since we unanimously has already put in place with respect to the issues of agreed, Honourable Dow said, Honourable Boko, I will Gender-Based Violence (GBV), rape and defilement. write something to assist you on how this matter can Honourable Speaker, I have within my hand here, the be approached. Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, Honourable national strategy towards ending gender-based violence Dow told us that she will not be available on Friday in Botswana. Then we also have the national study on when we will be debating but she will write something relationships in Botswana… for Honourable Boko. Unfortunately, Honourable Dow got busy with other official business… MR MOTSAMAI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, I do not understand. Honourable Boko and Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)… Mokgethi are contradicting each other. They are the very people who went to a committee that I am a member of MS MAKWINJA: That is what I am saying Honourable and agreed. They agreed that before the end of the day, Boko, please do not interject. That is why I am saying, they are giving Honourable Boko a response in writing due to her official duties and others, she failed to come on how they wish this Motion to be crafted. That was back to us. We are also waiting for her. Thank you. the agreement. I was with them and as a member of this MS MOKGETHI: With the greatest respect to committee, I know that we have dealt with this issue Honourable Motsamai, he failed to really appreciate that the Motion will be presented. I am very surprised what was happening in the meeting. We were in a that Honourable Mokgethi is saying what she is saying meeting whereby Honourable Boko came to us to solicit that she is a woman, we know that she is a woman. Then our support as members of the Parliamentary Caucus on she says she is the Minister responsible for this matter, Women. It is just like Honourable Makwinja is saying, we know that. We are saying, she should not turn on that out last word on the matter is that Honourable Dow our agreement that we made as the committee. Unless would go and prepare some written notes and then come there was some dishonesty and a meeting was held back to him and the rest of the committee Members. So where I was not invited and that is where they made unfortunately, he has failed to comprehend what was the decisions they are now bringing. I asked Honourable really happening in that meeting. Monnakgotla during tea break about the paper they were supposed to bring on how they wanted the Motion If I may just also state the reason why I am mentioning this is that he met, when I say ‘he’, I mean Honourable presented. She refused with it and now I am lost. I am Boko, with a select group of Members of this Honourable a member of the committee, something fishy has been House to appraise them of his intended Motion. I am done. My point is, why was that done? The procedure I saying that my request is that we meet in the General am asking for is that members of the Gender committee Assembly as Members of this House so that we can should go outside and meet at least to go and discuss our appraise each other not only me, but other Ministries issues in private since we differ so that we may solve which are affected. this issue. When we come back, the Motion should be debated. May I just say Mr Speaker, that issues of Gender Based Violence (GBV) are multi-sectoral, multi-level and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION decentralised. Participation and involvement by diverse (MS MAKWINJA): Procedure. Thank you Mr stakeholders is premised on their institutional mandates. Speaker. Let me thank Honourable Motsamai for the There are various Ministries in this House which have issue he has just aired before Parliament. Honourable different mandates, as far as GBV is concerned. There is Members, let me put things into perspective. During this the Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security, Ministry week, I am not sure if it was on Tuesday or Wednesday, of Local Government and Rural Development, Ministry

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of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs and MR SALESHANDO: On a point of procedure. The perhaps other Ministries which I have not mentioned only problem that I have is that when the Minister here. So the issues relating to GBV are crosscutting and started, she mentioned that she does not understand the hence why it is important for us to defer this matter so urgency. Moreover, in her conclusion she said, even if that we can gather our thoughts on this important Motion you are to agree, it will take more than a year before which Honourable Boko has brought to this House. something can be done. I am worried because of these two things because this Motion was brought through HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. Standing Order 50, which gives us the right to address MS MOKGETHI: If I may just mention something on issues of urgency. When you read Standing Order 50.1 the issue of urgency… up to 50.6, this Motion explains all the steps that we have to take. When talking about urgency Mr Speaker, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. firstly, she has to be certain that indeed it is an urgent matter. MS MOKGETHI: …sometimes we should be able to appreciate when we talk about urgency. Even if we meet Secondly; this House voted that they have to be listened and this House has finally debated on this matter and we to today and colleagues from Domkrag lost that vote. We agree with his Motion, it is still going to take a long time voted whether the debate should take place now or not. to set up a commission. Even the remedial measures You lost that vote. This means that you did not accept which are going to be put in place are still going to take the results from the first vote which you lost, which says a while and maybe a further six months, maybe another the matter should be debated today. We voted. year to put in place. So when I talk about urgency… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation Minister. MR SALESHANDO: What the Minister is doing right MS MOKGETHI: …it is just a small degree of now is to repeat the voting process that she lost with difference to say that instead of discussing the Motion her colleagues. For this reason, we have a problem with today, can we discuss it next week Friday. Not to throttle this procedure because this Motion was brought on the and kill it, but to say let us give it the due attention that basis that it is of urgency, the Speaker also agreed that it is urgent, Parliament also voted and it was said the it deserves as a matter of such importance and national Ayes have it. The majority says to debate it but when concern. I thank you Mr Speaker. we were starting the debate, she decided to stop it yet again. This is not run, run, statue! We are not playing HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… that kind of game. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND The train Honourable Anna Mokgethi, had left the HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): station on whether to debate it today or another time. Thank you Mr Speaker. You are alone on that one. So Mr Speaker, strictly the requirements of 50.1 where we are, the Minister has MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kgafela, before you take missed the boat. She can never bring it today. Otherwise, the floor, let us have the Minister tell the House clearly what was the purpose of the vote we took on whether what she is moving, if at all she is moving. we should debate it today or not? Let us not run away MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I appreciate from this issue because we on the other side, believe it you bringing that to my attention. Consequently, Mr is urgent. It is a pity that the Minister responsible says Speaker, I would respectfully ask this House that this that even if we can agree, it will take years. I believe you matter be deferred to next week Friday. said it by mistake, you will withdraw. We cannot have that deferment vote when we have already voted that we HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… are debating it today.

MR SPEAKER: Let me repeat it so that you can LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): understand Honourable Members. The Motion that you On a point of procedure. Mr Speaker, nothing is wrong are debating as I understand it, is that it be deferred to with deferment because it is in the Standing Order next Friday. and if a Member holding the floor wants deferment

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or adjournment on something that is already being the Opposition through that Motion, says that the House debated, he or she can do that at any time. So we are not voted to debate on the Motion, which is correct. The denying that it is being debated but the Member can ask House was asked whether they want to adjourn the other for deferment at any time, even if it is being debated. It proceedings for a maximum of two hours to debate the will be decided by vote; we are not denying that we have Motion by Honourable Boko, and you said yes! That is already voted. The Motion is on the floor but a Member why Honourable Mokgethi then could stand because the is allowed by the Standing Orders of this House to House had agreed that Honourable Boko should present move deferment at any time when holding the floor. So his Motion, not the first one that is it urgent. That one I do not think there is a conflict. It is straightforward, was to ask the House whether they agree with me and we are following the procedures of this House, we are Honourable Boko because we had said that the matter is not concerned with technicality. The Member has the urgent and it is of national importance and I understood right to move deferment and it does not even say on any the House to be saying yes, they agree. In the course matter which is of urgency or not. The Member holding of the debate whilst the Motion is on the floor, whether the floor has the right to move deferment anytime; urgent or not urgent. I thank you. it is because people have thought again or because of what they now see, it is perfectly legitimate for any MR RAMOGAPI: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I member to move a relevant Motion. Whether you will have a Standing Order here; 52.1, Mr Speaker, it clearly agree with it or not, it is another matter, that is why I says “a Member shall not speak more than twice.” did not ...(Inaudible)… If we had agreed so early and Honourable Mokgethi debated and sat down, her time the first member to speak after Honourable Boko says was frozen when she was done. So, it is not procedural let us defer, I would rather hear probably two people on for her to debate for the second time in the same matter both sides before we decide. I do not think on an urgent while another Member is holding the floor. We will be matter agreed to by the House, we can just put it to the completely out of procedure. Therefore, we cannot let vote without allowing members other than Honourable her debate for the second time so as to oppress others. Mokgethi to articulate, especially on the side where the If she failed to move when she was holding the floor, it Motion originated. My own way of doing things is that will remain like that according to the Standing Order. after Honourable Kgafela, I call at least two people on Thank you Mr Speaker. this side to deal with that issue. Unfortunately because we have got so many points of this and that, I will have MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, to decide whether the two hours which I have allocated if we were just looking at the Standing Orders in a to this Motion have been used. vacuum, you will be right, but you are wrong because the debate which was ongoing until we took the mandatory Let me tell you in advance, my view is that the Motion break was whether the Motion she was moving is by Honourable Boko will still be entitled to the two proper. She was trying to give her side of the story as to hours, whatever you do. It will be unjust to interrupt why she is motivating it. I think Honourable Motsamai his Motion by point of this, point of that, and the time is saying, no, no, their caucus met and agreed on certain will be up then you will be told, we are sorry two hours is over. things, one of which has not been fulfilled which is the bringing of a write-up; that is what we were debating. HONOURABLE MEMBER: We appreciate that. Rather than me then putting the Motion, as I understood it, all I did was to ask Honourable Mokgethi to put it in MR SPEAKER: Even if you do not thank me, that is my view. her own words so that we do not put words then she says they are the ones who wrote for me, those are not my HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… words, that is all I wanted to avoid. I was not giving her the floor to start bolstering her arguments, I will never HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… do that because it is not permissible. MR SPEAKER: I was not…

To that extent Honourable Ramogapi, you are quite HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… right, no Member can come and talk one, two or three times on the same matter while others are waiting; that MR SPEAKER: Do not! Just switch off! That is how would not be permissible. The Honourable Leader of I want to proceed Honourable Members. This debate…

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR SPEAKER: Order! Order!

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Boko, this debate is not MR KGAFELA: Mr Speaker, when… eating on the two hours allocated to the Motion. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Gobotswang, I think I HONOURABLE MEMBER: Some of us appreciate understand where you are coming from, but I thought it that. is your tendency as Members of Parliament, you make an introduction and then you come to the point. The MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND Motion before us now is whether Honourable Members HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): Mr agree that the debate on the Motion be adjourned to next Speaker, thank you and allow me to serve this whole Friday. Whether the information of commissions and Parliament; both sides. Mr Speaker, Honourable Boko’s whatever, let itself to say let us adjourn, I am here to hear request is that we should ask the President to appoint a what Honourable Kgafela has to say about that. Commission of Inquiry. I would have appreciated it if I MR KGAFELA: Thank you Mr Speaker. When I had met Honourable Boko earlier to discuss because in started, I said allow me to serve both sides, he has not his Motion he has referred to the Commissions of Inquiry heard what my position is. I was still explaining that Act. If you refer to the Act, you are making those of us what Honourable Boko seeks, we became excited when who deal with the law work overtime. I would appreciate I mentioned any other matter, the word any other matter, it if we had been involved and not him working alone which in the opinion of the President can be inquired because I believe in most cases, these kind of requests into. So, what Honourable Boko overlooked is, he knows are not carried out by a Commission of Inquiry. the law, he has been in the courts, there is a provision in Section 34 of the Interpretation Act which HONOURABLE MEMBER: Who does them? explains that according to the law when you mention MR KGAFELA: They are done by the Advisory things by listing them, and you conclude with the words, Committees but same task. If you look at the “and any other thing,” the words “and any other thing” Commissions of Inquiry Act and scrutinise it, it says are not to be taken lightly. It means whatever it is that the President can use this Act as Honourable Boko replaces any other thing, it is what relates; it should be related to those that have already been mentioned. Now requests that he does. If it is an inquiry into the conduct what has already been mentioned is that, it is an inquiry of a public officer, a department or an institution, it ends into conduct of the public officer, a department and an with the statement, “an inquiry into any matter in which institution. Now any other thing, should be something an inquiry would in the opinion of the President, be for related to these three things. the public welfare.” If you look at the first three which I have mentioned Mr Speaker, what he seeks does not fall A had an idea that, maybe we can make a deferment, within any of those. I hear him… to go and consider if really what he is coming with is related to the three that have already been mentioned. DR GOBOTSWANG: Procedure. Mr Speaker, let We must satisfy ourselves that we know that when we us focus on the matter. Honourable Mokgethi wants go the President, he will not dismiss us with the reasons the Motion to be deferred to next week Friday. So that what we are requesting from him is not lawful. Only listening to Honourable Kgafela, it seems he is debating if Honourable Boko could just correct this Motion and not focusing on what Honourable Mokgethi wants. I then remove the words that I believe are giving him a listened until he broadened his debate, if he supports her hard time and make me say what I am saying, words that he should broaden the issues as he alluded so that we say “a Commission of Inquiry” maybe he can replace can hear why we should debate on urgent matter next them with “an Advisory Committee”, and then withdraw week Friday. the words that say “Commissions of Inquiry at Chapter 05:02,” so that he removes the Statute that I believe is HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… going to disrupt him, so that really this task is carried HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… out quickly and it is done under an Advisory Committee. We will remember that in 2008 Kgosi Puso Gaborone, DR GOBOTSWANG: No, I do not know why he is when considering the problems that affected the country referencing so many Sections, where do they apply. of Botswana, you look at that...

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MR REATILE: Procedure Mr Speaker. Thank you on the conduct of the public. So, he is completely out Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, try to put us on the right of order, he is misleading the nation. He even wants to track because we may end up misleading the House. mislead this House, he is very, very wrong. Honourable Mokgethi has moved Mr Speaker, according to the order that means that we have to He knows who established the Commission of Inquiry support her or disagree with her. You should tell us that at Section 77, 78 and 79, and it is on record that it was whoever supports her, you are giving them two minutes stated that tribes, Bangwato, Bakgatla, should not be or whatever amount of time you are giving them. I what is called main tribes. That was done and it was cannot stand for 10 minutes to support the mover of the amended. In law, that is referred to as having precedent. Motion. So I should only show that I support her within It is there, you can even cite it at Court. So, do not try to the specified time. If we are going to take 10 minutes, we use your legal brain to confuse people. You should know would have misled the House Mr Speaker. I thank you. that we can read for ourselves, we are human, we are intelligent. Some of us even studied law courses up to a MR KGAFELA: Mr Speaker, I do not agree. You did certain level. Thank you Mr Speaker. say to us that in this kind of situation Mr Speaker, you listen to two or three people, but you do not subject it HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)... to a vote. You are going to decide Mr Speaker. So, I am MR KGAFELA: Mr Speaker, I am not responsible for speaking in order to persuade you that when you decide drafting this Motion. The draftsman of the Motion said Mr Speaker, it will be an informed decision. he wants Commissions of Inquiry Act, so I am trying I was saying that tasks of that kind, in the event that to assist him to find a different authority under which really it is decided Mr Speaker that we are continuing, the President should be urged to function, and only to I would suggest that an amendment is made so that the extent that the Member just wants the President to this task is carried out by an Advisory Committee, not act in terms of this authority, the present legislation a Commission of Inquiry because the President may he has cited, we may encounter that challenge that the refuse, saying that the law does not allow him to do what President is now unable to accede to our request. It is we are requesting him to do. If you look at Kgosi Puso a common request, we are united on it and we all want Gaborone, he was part of an Advisory Committee, then it. The President needs to be urged to do something that it went all over this country looking at the social ills, he is allowed to do according to the law. That is why and then gave a report. You look at all the others that it is important to defer. He must look for a different were done as an Advisory Committee. Now Mr Speaker, authority other than Commissions of Inquiry Act, and when you make your decision on this... we are prepared to help him Mr Speaker. That is the only reason why there seems to be the issue of saying now let HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... us defer. That is why I also stand here in support of the MR KGAFELA: Someone is making noise that side, I deferment with those reasons that we need to go and see do not know where the noise is coming from. If you could if we can really urge the President... make that decision, but I suggest that amendment to the MR BOKO: Clarification. Honourable Member, I think Motion. If you look at Commissions of inquiry, most of that sometimes it is necessary that we speak the truth the time at the end, they see if there is a possibility of when we are in this House, especially as a person who a punishment. Now this one is really requested, it is to studied law and practised law for years. I also practised, analyse what really went wrong in Botswana. There is I understand it and I can read it. The question I want to no hope that we are looking at someone responsible for ask is that, are you saying it is unlawful if the country’s heading any organisation, to be punished someday. With President sets up a Commission of Inquiry to look at that said Mr Speaker, I have concluded. weighty issues that are overwhelming, that are hurtful to women and children and the country as a whole? Would MR RAMOGAPI: Point of procedure. Mr Speaker, I it be wrong for the President to set up a Commission of ask this House to not be misled by Honourable Mmusi Inquiry in relation to a matter of this colour and hue? Kgafela. There is a Commission of Inquiry at Section That is the question I want to understand from you. 77, 78 and 79. I know very well and I remember that you were the Attorney General by then. So, there is no way MR KGAFELA: Sir, I am looking at your Motion; the Honourable Member can mislead this respectable Commissions of Inquiry Act and now I say to you that House, saying a Commission of Inquiry is only done this section which says any other that I believe you

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may use, let us go and review it. I have not yet made up MR SALESHANDO: It is a pity you wasted a few my mind whether it relates to the others. Let us go and valuable seconds. The point is, Honourable Minister review it. I am saying to you that when looking at it at Anna Mokgethi says she does not think this matter is face value, it does not look like it is related to the others. something that could be addressed urgently. She says if I am saying to you, let us go and ask the President to set Parliament can agree, she promises us that it will take up an Advisory Committee so that it can carry out this long, even more than a year without anything happening. task you are requesting, not a Commission of Inquiry. That was her message. If you go to Commissions of Inquiry Act, I believe that you are going to have challenges, you are going HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. to find yourself in trouble. So, it is either you amend MR SALESHANDO: I am no longer yielding because your Motion, otherwise then I will be more inclined to a you failed to add value, you failed to add value! deferment sir. Thank you Mr Speaker. Comrade, or rather Honourable Boko, when he gave MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Thank you Mr his motivation, he clearly pointed out how much of a Speaker. It looks like Honourable Kgafela did not get concern this matter is. What is happening today in this the topic. Today the topic is not sections. Today the issue Parliament, is what they call “playing the fiddle when before Parliament is that we must agree with Honourable Rome is burning.” Mokgethi’s request that this issue should be set aside HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. until the end of next week. This one on sections, you set a topic that is not there and then answered it effectively HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. using sections, which is not the topic for today. What we MR SALESHANDO: Honourable Mokgethi, you are want to say Mr Speaker is that, as I have shown earlier back to emperor Nero, who played his violin when Rome on, I am concerned that when the Honourable Minister was burning. Even today statistics of abused women will started and when she was concluding, she said she did be reported; those who will be raped, those of abused not think it was urgent. That is very worrisome that a children, women who are fleeing their homes, running Minister responsible for women issues… away from abuse and tyranny...(interruptions)...

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Abuse. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SALESHANDO: We are facing challenges such as MR SALESHANDO: You are their representative in physical abuse, rape and abuse in general… Parliament and at the Cabinet. She said this matter is not urgent, hence it can be put aside; we totally disagree HONOURABLE MEMBER: Killings. with you. I do not want to take long. Mr Speaker, I want to conclude by saying you should observe that as the MR SALESHANDO: It is even said that we are above opposition Members this side, there is something that other countries; far above many other countries. Then bothers us. There is a new visible culture, that when when Parliament is supposed to deal with this issue there are new ideas coming from this side… urgently, the relevant Minister says it is not urgent. I said she said it twice; when she started her debate and HONOURABLE MEMBER: I would like to elucidate. in her conclusion, maybe she wants to apologise, I will allow her. MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND COOPERATION (DR DOW): Thank you Honourable MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION Member for allowing me to elucidate. I know that you AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): have plenty of time. I wish to elucidate if possible. What Clarification. Honourable Speaker, I have no intention of I believe is that from all the four corners of Botswana, apologising. I just want to ask Honourable Saleshando if he is not the one who reminded this Honourable House there is no one who does not know that we have serious earlier on, that the Motion on urgency was defeated? problems concerning assault, physical abuse and the This House agreed that the Motion was urgent, so, that suffering of women. I wish to also elucidate that I am is the clarification. What did you say earlier on? Are you the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Women’s Caucus. not the one who said that on the issue on urgency, the We met Honourable Boko, and we whole-heartedly told opposite side, you on the other side, you defeated us? him that…

26 Hansard No 198 Friday 14th August, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... Mr Speaker, I wish to conclude by saying please take a note of this, every time a Motion comes from the DR DOW: No, allow me to elucidate because I am the opposition, the day before it is presented, Ministers Chairperson. have turned it into a culture that they come running saying they request to make a statement. We have seen HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... that with the issue of COVID-19 Scorpions. You want DR DOW: No, let me elucidate. We agreed to make a statement, the aim being to end or cut short wholeheartedly…Do not be impatient; you want me what the Member of Parliament would want to bring to to help you right? I am doing just that. We agreed the House. wholeheartedly that these are weighty matters, and HONOURABLE MEMBER: Even with Ipelegeng. we even showed our appreciation. I thanked him for coming to us with such a Motion. We considered him MR SALESHANDO: We are glad because in any case, such a very valuable Member of Parliament for having we propelled you to making the right decisions. We do come with it and we even agreed with him. We even not want to allow you to bar us from speaking. When the asked him whether in his view this is an issue of Justice, issue of whether Ipelegeng should recommence or not, Gender, Local Government or which Ministry? He said just when the Motion was supposed to be presented, you we should meet and sieve it so that we would know came rushing with a statement. There is an emerging exactly which Ministry the Motion falls under. He also trend whereby the Ministers are always on the lookout knows that we talked about this. What I know is that concerning what the opposition wants to say, then they there is no one who can oppose that what Honourable say ‘let us rush and say something before the time they Boko has presented before us is weighty, and it has to are allowed to say something in Parliament comes.’ be addressed and dealt with accordingly. As women, we are tired, we want it to be addressed and dealt with. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... We would like to walk about at night without fearing anyone. We should fear lions not men; do you hear what MR SALESHANDO: Mr Speaker, I kindly request I am saying? We want to stay in our homes without that you should observe this trend because even today, fearing anyone, knowing that they are our homes. That you can see that this is buying time. Before Friday next is what we want. week, there will be a statement that will be read here, and it would now mean the Motion would be unnecessary. I am sure at the end of the day; the House will agree that there is an urgency in dealing with this. How to deal MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, Order! with this is something else, but the House will agree, Order! Honourable Members. We have really done a Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) agrees, you agree, disservice. We have done a disservice to ourselves and there is no reason for a protracted debate. The question to this Motion. We have forced the issue where God’s is how are we going to finalise it, whom are we giving it time is not going to stop for us or COVID, time moves. to; do we give it to the gentleman from Justice or does it go to Gender; are we saying our education system MOTION is flawed, whom are we giving it to? That is the only question. Thank you sir. ADJOURNMENT

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!) ... LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker. I believe we are together. I now MR SALESHANDO: The question of whom the move that this House do now adjourn, and we shall… Motion would be given to is not something that can have us wait until next week. If Parliament decides today, you HONOURABLE MEMBER: Extend the time. will agree as Cabinet as to whom would spearhead this MR TSOGWANE: Should I extend the sitting hours? If matter. This is not something which should make us wait for a week while Government decides whether it is I do that, what time are you going to arrive in Tonota? I under Honourable Mmusi or under Honourable Minister beg that we end today’s business here. I also request that Mokgethi, or Minister Morwaeng, although he is still they should stop stealing the BDP manifesto, because being disturbed by his cell phone. That should not be that is the reason why we keep bringing statements. I the reason one can say we need to defer because of that. thank you.

Hansard No198 27 Friday 14th August, 2020 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

MR TSOGWANE: I have adjourned, did you not hear it? Should I extend the hours?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Extend the hours.

MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker they are saying I should extend the sitting hours...(Laughter!)...

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 12:30 p.m. until Monday 17th August, 2020 at 2:00 p.m.

28 Hansard No 198 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa, Ms M. Madubeko HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Alepeng, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

29 Hansard No 198