DAILY

YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THETHE SECOND FIRST MEETING MEETING OF THE O SECONDF THE FIFTH SESSION SESSION OF THE OF THE ELEVENTWELFTH PARLIAMENTTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 12 NOVEMBER 2020

MIXEDENGLISH VERSION VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. NO: 193 200

DISCLAIMER Uno cial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an uno cial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The nal edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. (Acting Opposition Whip) Shoshong Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE FIRST MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 12TH NOVEMBER 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS...... 1

Response to the President’s Speech Motion (Resumed Debate)...... 1-18, 25-54

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER ...... 19-24

Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Thursday 12th November 2020 MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members. The debate on this Motion is resuming today. When the THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. House adjourned yesterday, Honourable Mzwinila was (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) on the floor and he was left with 12 minutes, 14 seconds. P R A Y E R S MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER * * * * AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): …Silence… I thank you Honourable Speaker. In terms of the Land Management Reform Agenda, other aspects which are SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS going to be looked at are in terms of the agricultural land or land usage. One issue is in terms of the ranches MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable for small stock. We have been allocating ranches Members, in accordance with Standing Order 99.1 for livestock for beef cattle and also for small stock. and Standing Order 99.2, I am pleased to inform you However, the ranches we have been allocating for small that the Committee on Selection met on Wednesday, stock have been relatively small in size and we are going the 11th of November 2020 to fill vacancies arising in to review whether it is not time for us to have bigger Parliamentary Committees following the recent Cabinet size small stock ranches in line with the initiative of His movements and appointments. Honourable Dr Unity Excellency the President, of initiating a transformation Dow has therefore been appointed to the following of the small stock industry. We will now be looking at committees; small stock ranches of 2 km by 2 km or 3 km by 3 km to 1. Wildlife, Tourism, National Resources and Climate enable commercial small stock production. Change In addition, in conjunction with the Ministry of 2. Youth, Sports, Arts and Culture Agriculture and Food Security, we are going to be 3. Members Rights, Interests and Privileges looking and assessing the feasibility, viability and sustainability of continuing with livestock watering 4. Statutory Bodies and State-Owned Enterprises points which are 6 km apart… 5. Committee on Government Assurances HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. 6. African, Caribbean and Pacific-European Union (ACP-EU). MR MZWINILA: …and also the issue of the size of ranches. At the present moment, our size of ranches is Honourable Members, as a consequence of these around 6 km by 6 km. appointments, several committees also met on Wednesday 11th November 2020 and decided their HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. Chairpersons as follows; MR MZWINILA: In terms of the livestock watering 1. The Committee on Statutory Bodies and State- points... Owned Enterprises, they elected the Honourable Dr Never Tshabang. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. 2. The Special Select Committee on Sustainable MR MZWINILA: I yield. Development Goals elected the Honourable Wynter B. Mmolotsi. MR SALESHANDO: Elucidation. I understand that you are changing sizes of ranches for small stock because Order! Order! Honourable Members, let us now proceed of the President’s initiative. I need you to reconcile this; to the business of today, which is a response to the the President’s press secretary always explains that this President’s Speech. is not a Government initiative but the President’s. Can RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S you change a policy such that it suits something which SPEECH Government says is not theirs but the President’s? Motion MR MZWINILA: I thank you. We reconcile based on the national need and what Batswana want. We (Resumed Debate) are moving towards greater commercialisation,

Hansard No 200 1 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

nationalisation and knowledge management of the small In Bobonong, we are supposed to connect 10 villages stock sector as a result of His Excellency the President’s to the Thune dam, five of these villages have been initiative, we respond and react accordingly. connected; Bobonong, Mathathane, Molalatau, Tsetsebjwe and the other village I cannot recall. We As I was saying about livestock watering points or cattle have five more villages which we need to ensure that posts, we want to see whether the time has not come we connect water to, being; Motlhabaneng, Mabolwe, for us to reduce the distances from 6 km to 4 km, or Lepokole, Gobojango and Semolale, and we are going even 3 km based on two issues; one is saturation. At the to hastily ensure that we do this. present moment, it is very difficult to find anywhere or any piece of land you can have livestock watering points In Mmadinare Constituency, we are increasing the water and emerging and new farmers especially the youth, are supply to Sefhophe and Tobane villages by increasing having difficulty with finding land for the cattle posts. the size of the reservoir or the reservoir capacity. We Also the size of ranches, because of ranch management are also going to embark on the World Bank project issues, we have said 6 km by 6 km, but it was initially of Mmadinare to Serule Pipeline, which will service 8 km by 8 km. We now want to see that our national and secure water security for Mmadinare, Serule, herd, the ranch management practices and the carrying Gojwane, Topisi, Damochujenaa and Moremabele. capacity of the land in terms of the number of cattle and North-South Carrier (NSC) 2 Contract three is also in the average carrying capacity of individual farmers are the final procurement stage, which will service Serowe, commensurate with 6 km or we go lower. Mahalapye, Shoshong and Radisele.

In terms of His Excellency the President’s report on the Palapye Water Treatment Plant was also started during water sector, His Excellency has the prerogative and the this current year; it is also a massive project. Mahalapye duty to inform the nation in terms of the water project. Water Treatment Plant has also commenced, and it Over the past 12 months, there have been significant will service the water deficit in Mahalapye and the and exponential growth in the water sector, as many surrounding villages. Tswapong South villages; we major projects have been embarked upon. In Maun, the have already found the contractor, we are going to do contractor is on site and it is the testament to the resolve, ground-breaking within the next month. It is going to dedication and determination of this Government. be a permanent, sustainable and viable solution to the As they say, ‘seeing is believing,’ the contractor is on stress that the people of Tswapong South villages have site, there is no question as to our resolve in terms of been experiencing. ensuring that the great people of Maun have adequate water supply in the coming years. I have already mentioned Maun, but just for emphasis because I think this is an issue that came out yesterday, In Kasane, we have two big water projects; one is for we are doing our best and we are going to ensure that we waste water, the other one is for potable water treatment continue doing our best. We actually have four projects and both of them have started. In Nata-Gweta, we are for Maun, the contractor started Contract one, we are proceeding with the implementation of the Sua Master procuring and looking for the contractor of Contract Plan under the World Bank Projects to ensure that two. the people have water and that delay has been caused by administrative issues between us and the funder, Shakawe; we have a water treatment plant which we are which is the World Bank and we hope to resolve these going to commission within the next 12 months, it will administrative and procurement issues in the next few service the villages in the Shakawe area. Same thing months. with Gumare; Gumare has been water stressed for some time, and we have a water treatment plant which will We have started within this past 12-month period, a supply a sustainable relief for the area. very large project in the north east area which supplies 52 villages in the constituencies of Tati East, Nkange, In Ghanzi we are doing a land servicing project. We are Tati West and Shashe West. Those are very big projects finishing the designs, and very soon we will start the and it was the milestone, a first World Bank project we project. started. In Selebi Phikwe, we are doing a massive land servicing project which is currently undergoing some Masama Pipeline which was refused by the 11th administrative challenges but we hope to resolve them Parliament but agreed by the 12th Parliament has in the near future. commenced, and by August 2021, the project would

Hansard No 200 2 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

be completed. The beneficial areas which will derive and human consumption. That is where we need the benefits from this project are; Kgatleng, Gaborone, expertise, technology and knowhow of international Tlokweng, Mogoditshane, Ramotswa- specifically partners. All water is recycled, and will go through a Magope and Disana, Molepolole, Kanye, Goodhope- reclamation process, thus it will be no different, the only Mabule, Mmathethe, Molapowabojang and Kopong. We difference is that we are doing it faster, we are taking are also going to commission next month, Ramotswa sewage, wastewater and within a day or two, we will be Water Treatment Plant which will be a solution to the converting it to portable drinking water. I have visited water stress of the Ramotswa area and also Mmankgodi. these plants, our neighbours, Namibia and South Africa It is very important that all these projects on an annual have these wastewater reclamation plants. I visited basis, the Head of State in his capacity as the chief them, we are the only ones who are not embracing implementer, provides an update, and as the update has this technology, and as part of the Fourth Industrial shown, we are doing the best we can with the resources Revolution (4IR), we are duty bound to embrace this we have. With the leadership of His Excellency the technology, and also as being a water scarce and water President, we are fast-tracking many projects and insecure country, we must embrace it. I have tasted the actually, this sector, is one sector where by the end of water and it is very good, it is of very high quality, even the financial year, we would have exhausted the whole higher quality than borehole water. That is the direction budget that was allocated to us. we are going. I plead and ask this august House to assist me in ensuring that public perception about these In Makopong and Draaehoek, we are drilling boreholes, projects is correct, that we can turn sewage water into we took a decision to buy a drill rig and associated portable water and it will be completely safe for human facilities. We are drilling right now and we will usage and a sustainable long-term solution. I thank you hopefully, strike water. Mr Speaker.

Gaborone; we have Gaborone Master Plan to ensure MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you Mr Speaker. water security in the Gaborone area. We are fixing Mr Speaker, let me start by appreciating the Minister Glen Valley. There was a foul odour coming from Glen of Environment, Natural Resources and Tourism, Valley and within the next month, we will reduce that Honourable Kereng for wearing our traditional attire odour and make the system more effective. Lobatse during the State of the Nation Address. water management or Lobatse Water Master Plan will also be launched or ground-breaking will be HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... done. The contractor is on site, and there is no better testimony to the veracity of our commitment than to MR HIKUAMA: Moreover, the women of have the contractor on site, and it will relief the water Ovambanderu and Ovaherero sent me to tell you that shortage situation in Ramotswa, Otse and Mmathethe- they are very happy that you wore their traditional attire. Molapowabojang Constituency. This is something which the Government of Domkrag failed to do over 54 years. Goodhope Master Plan, we are also in the process of HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is where you are getting the contractor. We should get the contractor by losing track. next month. It will cover a project that will relief 21 villages in the Goodhope-Mabule Constituency. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)…

We are also seriously making progress, commendable MR HIKUAMA: …(Laughter!)… This is what we are progress in terms of wastewater reclamation. We referring to when talking about unity and tolerance as a procured a transaction advisor about the project. The nation of Botswana. We are talking about people who transaction advisor has advised us and provided the imitate the values and cultural practices of other ethnic report which we have accepted on how to convert sewage groups, without looking down upon them. So instead of water into portable water. Basically, there will be three doing this, the Government of Domkrag during the past 54 steps in this process, the first two steps are the collection years, was able to create two sets of people when it comes of sewage water and the treatment of this sewage to national building; the superordinate group of people water to grey water standards, which we are presently who comprise the Tswana stock and the subordinate set doing at Glen Valley. The final step is the conversion of people who consists of the non-Tswana speaking of the grey water to portable water for households groups. Fortunately, Honourable Kereng managed to

Hansard No 200 3 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

show the Government of Domkrag that through their Like the President has explained, it is going to start at policy which creates superordinate and subordinate the beginning of next year. Like you said , all the things groups, this Assimilation Policy managed to encourage you mentioned will be looked into when you review it. I people to look down upon others as well as create what assure you that the desire of all Batswana is to be part of is known as self-hate within the subordinate groups. the review of the Constitution. I assure you just like the What the Government of Domkrag only managed to President that, at the beginning of next year, the process do during these years was prevent these groups from will begin Honourable Member. celebrating their values and cultures because they were looked down upon, the policies of the Domkrag MR HIKUAMA: Thank you Mr Speaker. If the (Botswana Democratic Party) Government undermine Domkrag (Botswana Democratic Party) Government people. That is why I am thankful to Honourable Kereng and their President Masisi are concerned, they should for trying to make us pass this stage of contempt, and not prioritise laws regarding floor crossing. We should that for us to get into a stage of building a united nation review the whole Constitution. Let us put that one of Botswana, we need to accept each other as people of behind us Mr Speaker. different tribes and know that no tribe is better than the Let me talk about the situation we are in regarding other. It is evident that President Masisi’s Government COVID-19 virus and the State of Emergency. Mr like his predecessors does not see the need to improve Speaker, I cannot clearly understand how the State of the situation by making all tribes in Botswana equal. It Emergency and COVID-19 are connected because looks like it is not a priority just like the amendment of even when we try to listen to explanations from the the Constitution, they are concerned about Honourable experts, there is no connection between them. Domkrag Moswaane leaving Domkrag (Botswana Democratic (Botswana Democratic Party) implemented the State of Party) and coming this side. Now they are rushing to Emergency as if it is a remedy or cure for COVID-19, make laws or have Motions in the Constitution to prevent whereas it is not like that. What I think should be done people from crossing the floor, that is their concern. The is to continue with other protocols and use all the right main concern Honourable Minister Kabo Morwaeng, things to fight COVID-19. The State of Emergency should be to review the Constitution of Botswana and should be lifted because it is not important anymore. make it tribally neutral and democratically acceptable, Initially we thought that it was used to prepare this rather than focus on Honourable Moswaane and try to country for the fight against this virus and do things intimidate those who are not satisfied with Domkrag which were not readily in place so that they can be (Botswana Democratic Party). That is not a priority. We made to be ready, so that the country can be able to fight should set a deadline of when the Constitutional review this disease. It seems like they think or they now equate is going to be done. that the State of Emergency is a pill or medicine for Like the Leader of the Opposition (LOO) was saying COVID-19. yesterday, the main priority is that, right now as you are Countries are serious they want to come up with reviewing and we wait for next year, one has to set the ways to fight COVID-19 like inventing vaccines, but terms of reference of when the Constitutional review is in Botswana no, we can even sleep and put people in going to be made, because that is what Batswana greatly quarantines, after that, we will have found no cure. No, need. When we were campaigning as political parties, let us refrain from thinking like that, and start thinking Domkrag (Botswana Democratic Party) and Umbrella about things we can prepare to effectively fight the for Democratic Change (UDC) included, the main disease with. message of the 2019 elections was the amendment of the Constitution of Botswana. We should amend it… Mr Speaker, the State of Emergency is negatively affecting us, especially in our district of Ngami or North MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL West which makes a living through tourism. Many AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE, AND PUBLIC people have already lost their jobs, they can no longer ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): On a sustain themselves; that is why we believe that this has point of elucidation Mr Speaker. Let me assure you turned into a monster instead of helping Batswana. We Honourable Member of Parliament for Ngami that like should see what we are going to do about people who the President was saying, Government is committed to lost jobs due to COVID-19 because their companies and a Constitutional review which will be comprehensive. industries have collapsed.

4 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

This issue that you have introduced regulations that to transform our education system with, and I also agree, prevent the dismissal of employees from work is not but it does not show that there is a commitment on the working. If a company is not generating income, even part of Government whether this thing would really be if you can keep on saying it should not dismiss works, implemented. Since it was launched in 2015, saying in technically those workers have been dismissed because 2020 that would be the end of it, even half of what has they are not working, because there is no one who can been proposed in the ETSSP has not been done. If at go to work just to register their name at company X all anything is happening, people would just be saying whereas they are not being paid. There is no use at all. ‘but we can do it.’ We do not want to be at the starting What is important is that, we should open up business so stage when years have long passed, we want to see a that the economy can recover, and people can find jobs situation whereby all the programmes proposed under and see what they can do with their lives. ETSSP are being implemented, because I do not think they were there to be a ‘trophy,’ they were there to create The other point I want to comment on Mr Speaker is a change in our education system. Honourable Minister, education. We all understand Honourable Members that it means they have to be implemented, not just talking education is a major factor when it comes to improving about them year in, year out saying ETSSP is going people’s lives. As we always say at UDC, we want a to be implemented. If I may give an example, Maun country that provides free quality and compulsory Secondary has been given this, Moeng College is going education. Not free from knowledge. Education that to do this, when are we going to see the actual thing can equip our people or guarantee them the ability to taking place in those schools? That is what we need, fight ignorance and create jobs. That is what we want, not talking about it for more than 10 years now. This is the ability to fight against ignorance and poverty. a clear sign that you are not serious Honourable Molao. The education we have at the moment, does not help You have to be serious to ensure that the things that you us with anything. The type of education where when talk about actually come to fruition. someone completes school, they cannot use the skills they acquired. When we take Junior Certificate (JC) When we talk about early childhood education, I think it for example, students complete school, they are taught is clear in our Government that buildings and facilities agriculture and other subjects, but they cannot create are a problem. The Umbrella for Democratic Change jobs for themselves with those subjects. That is why (UDC) has already explained that erecting structures we believe that, when we implement free and quality will take a long time, and as a way of rolling out this education, after people complete school, they can be programme, we can start by sponsoring education in able to create jobs for themselves. private institutions, so that our little children can start going to school. If we can sponsor their education in At the moment it is uncertain. You will find that someone private institutions, and encourage retired teachers cannot complete school as a doctor, engineer, we cannot and everybody who wants to engage in this education do those things. Our engineer cannot manufacture to start this job, it could be started, and most of our machines, spanner and other things. That means that, young children could go to schools. Right now we are this is the education which does not create jobs. We want losing a chance for many children who are not able to the kind of education which when someone completes access early childhood education, because there are school, they can make this microphone we are using to no facilities. Government does not have the capacity speak; that is what we need as a country. Right now we of providing service to all these children, but if we have a lot of salty underground water in Botswana, and could ensure that we sponsor their education in private we are struggling. Our education cannot train people institutions and private individuals who have facilities, and produce experts who can be able to purify this we doing the sponsorship, children would be able to go water so that it can be used for human consumption. to school. United Nations Development Programme This is the type of education that we need, not the one (UNDP) report points out that, it is only 43 per cent we currently have. of our children who are four to five, who can attend We should be quick to ensure that the Education and pre-school or pre-education. It shows that the higher Training Sector Strategic Plan (ETSSP) is implemented, numbers are not benefitting from attending this kind of instead of just talking about it in paper. Honourable education. If we are not going to change the way we Molao has said this Education and Training Sector think, we are going to implement the programme only Strategic Plan (ETSSP), is a programme that you want when we have classrooms in Government schools, it

Hansard No 200 5 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

means our children are not going to benefit from this you operate at times; is it the public service employees kind of education that they are supposed to benefit from. or is it you? You do not even know the places which have electricity and those that do not have. You cannot When we talk about education, the other issue is about go and combine the electricity from Botswana Power the student-teacher ratio. This is no longer an issue Corporation (BPC) with the one from solar power in one of debate; even you as the Government are now in place. I really do not know how you think. agreement because you are saying COVID has already taught you that so many students cannot be in one class. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… We have divided the classes; the challenge is that, teachers are still employed on a temporary basis. Let us MR HIKUAMA: You have to look into these things, or make sure that we are going to hire these teachers on a could it be because you have shares in these companies permanent basis, so that there would be assurance, and and you want to loot the economy of this country they would also know that when they wake up in the through them. These are things you have to pay close morning going to work, it is their permanent job and attention to, because that is one of corrupt practices. You they would perform their duties effeciently. cannot ask people to go and build a solar power plant in Makakung when there is electricity in the village, that Let us also continue to ensure that teachers, particularly is corruption. The Minister of Finance has to focus his those in the rural areas whose numbers are not enough attention to these things and to the Ministers when they are given what is called accommodation allowance. abuse these kind of things, look deeper into these issues. Most of the challenges faced by schools are in regard HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… to accommodation because the existing buildings cannot accommodate all teachers. We could curb this MR HIKUAMA: Sir? Yes sir…(Laughter!)… The challenge by giving the teachers housing allowance. other thing that I would like to commend about your If we give them this housing allowance, they can find education is that there is this new council called accommodation for themselves which they can pay for, Botswana Teaching Professionals Council. Let us the Government not worrying about building houses at accept that though it is long overdue, maybe it will start a promptly which they might not manage. You have to operating, and you will not do as you are used to, which pay close attention to these things. is to politicise good institutions that are supposed to The other thing which we have to talk about which we serve Batswana, as you have already done with some have long talked about as the UDC is in regard to ICT; that we know, turning them into spring boards for providing learners with tablets, and you also agree with Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) politicians. us Honourable Rakgare. You are now singing this same Still on the issue of education, another issue is in regard song saying you are going to provide every learner with to mother tongue. Since it was mentioned, what we have a tablet. A time has come for you to shift from talking and been hearing is that you are still doing consultation. I do start implementing. I believe we are now in congruence; not know what the consultation is about if an agreement it is no longer referred to as ‘dreams that cannot come has already been made; and people have always wanted true.’ I am sure you can now see as well that this is a to be taught using local languages; what are you still dream which can be implemented, so we now have to consulting on? We would like you tell us where you implement it and ensure that students are provided with have found the teachers. When are you recruiting? How tablets. You cannot provide tablets, yet most schools do has the syllabus been prepared? Are you still consulting not have access to internet. We have to ensure that there on this? You are consulting parents in Bodibeng to is internet connectivity in all our schools and the first do what? Recruit teachers? Recruit teachers, develop thing is to connect electricity. Electricity has to reach our syllabus, and shift from unnecessary consultation. schools and all places so that when we bring the services closer to the people they would be beneficial to them. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… They should not have to worry about how they could MR HIKUAMA: You are talking about Kiswahili utilise them. Let me commend you Honourable Minister which is not here. Most of our school have libraries, but Molao, I once told you that there is a school somewhere because you are a Government which…I do not know in the middle there, in Makakung; there is electricity in how to describe you. the village but you also engaged a particular company to go and connect solar electricity. I do not know how HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are full of jealousy.

6 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR HIKUAMA: You are full of jealousy, you are MR HIKUAMA: We regard this as campaigning being petty. Right now President Boko of the Umbrella tactics by the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) leader. for Democratic Change (UDC) is going around The other thing that we have to talk about is rural donating books, but you are blocking this initiative development. Honourable Molale... because of your pettiness. You encourage schools to ask for donations and sponsors from people but at the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go on, I am listening to same time when people volunteer to do an Adopt- a- you. School initiative which is along the same line, you MR HIKUAMA: Rural development; there are three stop it because of pettiness. Please stop governing with things which are needed to develop rural areas; we have pettiness, jealousy will hinder us from... to connect water, electricity and allocate land. Those HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. are the three basics that are needed to develop rural areas. You cannot develop people by donating bucks MR HIKUAMA: Who is asking for clarification? while they do not have plots and water to give to their livestock. You cannot develop people... MR KEORAPETSE: Point of clarification. Honourable Hikuama, I was asking that when you compare books to HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... bucks, books-bucks, books-bucks, do you not see that that can trigger too much jealousy. MR HIKUAMA: I want water and land, Batswana already knew about small stock farming, they are not HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... being encouraged to rear small stock now, they knew about small stock from way back. You cannot encourage MR HIKUAMA: Yes, that can happen. Let us move people to do something that they have been doing all to the next point about health. Honourable Members, along. They need water and that is the only way you can we know that most clinics in Botswana, especially at help them significantly. my constituency, areas like Etsha all the way to Gumare have shortage of staff. There is a shortage of nurses and Today when we talk about agriculture at rural areas, it is midwives. This situation has to be improved, you need one thing that can develop rural areas, more especially to increase staff. There is also a shortage of resources beef industry but when I listen and try to analyse this and these situations make it hard for people of this speech, it seems like you have turned against the idea constituency to access health care. regarding the meat regulator. I do not see it being mentioned anywhere as it your norm, it seems like you We are talking about poverty eradication, and we are have talked about it and you are done with it, you have saying that poverty eradication corresponds with moved on and you want to cheat with other things. We the initiative to donate bucks. I do not believe that need this thing, we need this structure. Where is Minister they correspond. There are other serious government Gare? We need to have this structure so that Batswana programmes like Livestock Management and can benefit from rearing livestock, they need to benefit Infrastructure Development (LIMID) which need to be from selling their livestock. enhanced. If donating bucks is a President’s initiative, why can it not be incorporated into these programmes The other thing that we can advocate for is Community instead of wasting funds by saying that we want to Based Natural Resources Management (CBNRM). It eradicate poverty by donating one buck hence wasting a can help those who are into agriculture but it seems lot of funds while at it? Let us incorporate this initiative, like there is lack of knowledge, shortage of workers there was a Presidential Housing Appeal initiative which and specialists who can manage trusts and connect the was in such a way that people were given an opportunity community with management of trusts and Department to donate whatever they can donate from wherever of Wildlife and National Parks, there is a need for they are in order to assist in building houses. The same education here. We should educate our communities so thing can be done, we heard that the President wants to that they can benefit from their community trusts and donate bucks, let people now volunteer to donate bucks natural resources. Minister Kereng, we have to be serious to those in need, not the President moving around flying about these things and educate people, otherwise we with bucks and saying that he is eradicating poverty.... will have these community trusts and natural resources but our communities will not benefit from them. Trusts HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!).... and community resources have the potential to create

Hansard No 200 7 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

sustainable development in areas where they are found, have many defects. I think you have to put your eyes on but because we are not harnessing them well and lack of the companies that you use, unless you are benefitting knowledge and the skill...we need to tutor our people so something from them. I do not believe that as someone that they can benefit from these things. from Bogosi, you can be enticed by these small things, you should be very, very professional and guide these When I go back to health issues, Minister of Health companies to provide quality houses to our people. and Wellness; way back in 2009 you promised Gumare Otherwise SHHA will just be there to make people poor. residents that you are going to build a hospital for them but even up to now, all that I hear is that it is at the design Roads; I will not talk about roads today because I stage. From 2009 up to now it is still at the design stage! already have an agreement with Honourable Minister This shows that there is no commitment on your part as Segokgo that I will not talk about the issue of roads a Government to help people at our constituencies. since he has managed to travel on the roads in my constituency and he has seen them. I am only waiting Human/wildlife conflicts; we have a challenge of for action from you and your engagement with Minister elephants at our constituencies, to an extent that they of Finance and Economic Development as to when he even go to people’s homes and destroy fields. These will fund the project. I will not say anything much, I am people are not able to do anything for themselves. waiting for action only. I will not address the issue of Something has to be done to protect our people from roads until end of next year. If by next year they are not these animals. constructed, I will start talking about them.

Honourable Mzwinila, land allocation; I will not talk We have shortage of water in villages such as Somelo, about challenges which are found across the constituency Kaure and Xorotshaa. Villages with pastoral farming but I want to give an example that you long suspended cannot survive on water bowsing. These rural areas are the allocation of land since 2009 at our constituencies. settlements. They need effective boreholes. Otherwise Even up to now, people do not have plots but the most providing their livestock water through bowsing only painful situation is found at Legotlhwane settlement, I brings them immense problems. While on the issue of will single it out. We knew that people there had not water, let me take this opportunity to speak for Boteti been allocated plots and that they are just squatting, but today I hear that your officers want to evict people residents who do not have a representative and drink from Legotlhwane, a settlement in which people were contaminated water. They should be considered because just squatting without allocation of plots. I do not know they cannot survive on contaminated salty water while how you reconcile the two because you have not been their Honourable Member is quiet about that horrible allocating plots. You have recognised the village, where situation at Boteti. are you saying those people should stay when they take their children to school, where are they going to HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. commute from if at all where they have been saying is MR HIKUAMA: You are not present in Parliament. regarded as a squatter camp? I think it is something that Another thing that we need to highlight is, I think it was needs to be reconciled, talk to the relevant people so a mistake Mr Speaker to have Water Utilities supplying that they do not take measures which are going to upset the whole country with water. When you look at the people. level of poverty in our communities, they are incapable The Minister responsible for Self Help Housing Agency of paying water bills. I think rural areas should be (SHHA), Honourable Kgafela; it seems like many considered to be moved from Water Utilities. We should SHHA houses are being constructed but I do not know if have a waiver that they would be provided free water. companies which are given construction jobs are owned Otherwise, there is no point. by the BDP government ministers or what. Even when Before I take my seat Mr Speaker, there is an issue they are told to maintain the houses here and there, which I believe the Minister of Defence must clarify. they still go on and give someone the keys to the house We heard reports that there are four Namibian men who without maintaining the house. I do not know how far were killed in Kasane. I think we need an update as you are from SHHA and the builders to ensure that Parliament, so that we understand what is going on. people enjoy the quality of houses that they are given instead of having to pay for things even though they MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Member!

8 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR of the countries that we were compared with and told MOLAO): You wasted time on petty stuff. Thank you as Botswana to lift SOE so that people can go back to Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. their normal lives are going back into hard lockdowns I must also confirm that I support the State of the Nation because the virus is now uncontrollable. As a country, Address (SONA) as presented by the President. The although we are aware that the lives and jobs of people message is solid and encompasses a number of points took a hard knock, we took a decision… affecting Botswana and the lives of Batswana. We also confirm that we cannot include every point that we wish LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): to have been covered in the Nation Address because it On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr will be bigger than it is right now. What we confirm is Speaker. Good afternoon to you and Honourable that, the President has touched on points which affect Members. Mr Speaker, let me advise on procedure as a Batswana at this moment. He is showing us the progress Member of Parliament for Boteti for those who do not we have made for the past 12 months to date. know like Hikuama that, the removal of masks as seen in Parliament is against COVID-19 health protocols. If We are currently living in a COVID era which has not an individual does not want to protect themselves Mr only affected Botswana but the world at large. As a Speaker, that individual must at least protect those who country, we must accept that in comparison with other want to live by asking them to wear masks. I thank you. countries, we are one of the countries which have done so well in combating this disease. Our numbers speak MR SPEAKER: I am sure Honourable Members are for themselves. When you compare us to other countries aware of that. The doctors have advised. Thank you on the measures that we took such as declaring a State Vice President. of Emergency (SOE), educating Batswana on health MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Batswana who protocols to prevent the disease, they have put us at an are struggling economically are sometimes derailed advantageous of having figures that are manageable. We from protecting themselves by those who discredit must also appreciate our frontline workers. In addition SOE. Right now Europe, France, England, Germany, to them, I never forget speaking about teachers because Italy, Poland and Belgium, all of them are going into they are also frontline workers in the job that they are hard lockdowns because they were too quick to lift doing of teaching students amidst this virus. They are movement restrictions. They are countries… doing a commendable job. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molao, there is obviously People have a tendency of speaking forgetting that a conflict between the COVID and the requirement of countries which were quick to lift lockdown restrictions, the mask. and allowed people to live as they want, developed countries that have resources as compared to Botswana MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Speaker. I do not have a are back in lockdown as we speak because the virus is problem with wearing a mask as required, I will wear now uncontrollable. This is something that in Botswana it. I was still saying, although we understand that this we are… arrangement has affected Batswana… Mr Speaker, Recording staff is signalling that they are unable to MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure Mr Speaker. Sorry, let capture me. I believe I have put quite a distance with me not disrupt you Honourable Molao, but I hear those those who are next to me, maybe you can allow me to recording saying they are unable to capture him because remove the mask for purposes of recording. of the mask. Like I said earlier, I want Batswana to know that we HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… are a country with limited health resources. If by an unfortunate stroke of luck the virus gets out of control MR KEORAPETSE: No, you can ask them Mr as we see the numbers increasing, we might find Speaker. ourselves in more trouble than we are right now. SOE MR SPEAKER: They should tell me. If they are does not prevent the economy from opening slowly serious, they should tell me. being conscious of the virus spread. That is why last week it was reported that flights could start coming into MR MOLAO: Let them signal if it is indeed true Botswana and an arrangement of opening borders was that there is no recording. I was still saying that most made. A Government which cares about the lives of its

Hansard No 200 9 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

people does exactly that looking at the fact that it does tendering and implementing them. Moreover, since we not want to entice people but to protect their lives. That mentioned them on the current SONA, it does not mean is what we are doing as Government. we are going to avoid talking about them when they are not completed next year, fearing that people will Mr Speaker, we are aware that the economy has suffered, condemn us for repeating what we promised previously. that is why we came up with the economic recovery That is not supposed to be the case, SONA is a report plan when looking at half of National Development card which gives an update of the achievements from Plan (NDP). It clearly indicates that this P14 billion will the time you started up to date. be used to try to recover the economy during the last three years of NDP 11. It covers construction of roads Moving on, we talked about economic inclusion as a and the supply of water countrywide. We have discussed law which is going to be tabled in Parliament that talks and people selectively quoted Nata-Mohembo road about giving Batswana economic power. Our intention which was covered on the previous State of the Nation is to consult Batswana so they tell us how they want it Address (SONA), it is our intention to construct this to be addressed. That is why we have started the process road. We also highlighted that we are going to get a loan of consultation to determine how giving them economic from China and the truth is, feasibility study has been power should be done. It will be inappropriate for us made from Nata road up to Mohembo. What delayed is to come to Parliament without consulting Batswana the fact that, Botswana did not agree with the terms of so they tell us how to address it. We have highlighted the loan which China stated. The truth is, if the terms that we have a reservation of 30 per cent for citizens for of the loan are not favourable for Botswana, we cannot awarding of projects. Now we are saying, we intend to simply accept them just because we need a loan. That upgrade from 30 per cent to 60 per cent of reservations on megaprojects. That is what we said, jotted down is the only thing which delayed the construction of this and also what we are going to observe as the reigning road and we also decided to look for other sources of Government. funding. That is why SONA states that, “Government is still committed.” You deliberately omit ‘still committed’ Regarding electricity connection; Honourable Hikuama so you can claim that one paragraph is used repeatedly. has been denying that as a country, we are at 64 per cent So, we could not have done that if at all we intended to regarding village electrification in Botswana. We also hide it, we could not have inserted this paragraph here have villages which are expected to be connected with yet again. This is to say, Government is still committed electricity before end of the year, so we will be moving to constructing this road otherwise we could have said from 64 to 90 per cent. We must note that there are few nothing about it. The truth of the matter is that, we are countries that have similar economic status as Botswana an honest Government that is why we inserted it to but do not have notable achievements like we do. For indicate that we have other things which we are going to this reason, we must understand Government objectives do so we can carry on with this road as we still retain the and vision. These are the very things that our colleagues commitment to construct this road because it is big and will not acknowledge even when they can see them, we believe it is going to benefit Batswana. even when they are there, things which are notable in Not only that, we are about to award a tender for their respective Constituencies. Moreover, this project construction of Mandunyane-Mathangwane road. We has been awarded to citizen owned companies, not those are aware that they are some of the roads which are owned by Minister Hikuama nor members of Domkrag. going to generate wealth in Botswana, they lead to There is yet another company that was supposed to Kazungula bridge and others. connect solar electricity at Makakung but we requested them to focus on other schools which do not have Honourable Mzwinila highlighted that we are busy electricity in your Constituency since Makakung has supplying the nation with water country wide. I would electricity. What you are saying and what you know has also like to appreciate that they are wrapping up at my been done and is still ongoing. It is done by a citizen Constituency, Borolong and at Chadibe. Moreover, they owned company that does not have any relationship have already started another project at North East which with any Minister or anyone who has a company covers 52 villages that includes Marapong and Sebina. which is working with them. Clearly, this is a huge These are things which we are intending to do and we milestone which we have to note as a Government and are aware that we have to work very hard to make them as Batswana. Honest people do not hide things, they say a reality. It takes a long time to plan for them as well as them as they are.

10 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Transport Honourable Hikuama, right now 38 subjects that are in line with the Education and Training Sector Strategic We highlighted here as I mentioned that, the President Plan (ETSSP) have been reviewed and developed. stated that we are still committed to construct You just do not sit here and say do an outcome-based Francistown road, Nata road up to Mohembo and areas education without any written document and even the like Martin’s Drift. We are going to implement that, curriculum has to be amended. Writing a curriculum whether someone likes it or not. is not something you take a whole day doing as if Land Reform you are writing a composition, and then you say take and go teach, it takes a long time. It is something we Honourable Mzwinila just mentioned here that when I have already done at the moment and even at Maun, it was still the Executive Director of Botswana National has been a longtime since you went to Maun, go there Youth Council (BNYC), we once indicated that six by and see the work that has already begun where we are six farms are very big because population increases going to implement tourism education at Maun Senior while land does not. So let us review this and reduce Secondary. sizes of farms so that many people can be able to have farms. I am also grateful that the Government is now At Moeng College we are going to conduct all educational implementing an issue which we have been discussing services of horticulture and animal husbandry, the for a long time, we are now dealing with it just as project has begun and it is ongoing. Our plan is that the Minister said. We are not simply implementing it by January, 2021 those places should be complete and because we have a programme which aims at improving teachers have already resumed duty. To say that there is small stock farming which the President is promoting. nothing happening is not true, that is trying to mislead This programme has been there, that is why we started Batswana. at Kgalagadi farm at Lobu where special breeds are We have already managed the programme of 30 students produced. This is done so that a farmer may have per class, which is not a COVID-19 programme, the sufficient profit when selling their livestock. Weare Revised National Policy on Education (RNPE) has long constructing a structure at Lobu, Setata and other stated that. We have said that even now we have managed different areas. This programme that the President has 30 per class, and I explained in the last Parliament embarked on is to encourage Batswana who are into that we have employed teachers temporarily to teach small stock farming to improve the value of their small in these classes, and our intention is to employ them stock, this is something that we should welcome instead permanently, it is not a new thing, I have mentioned it in of joking about it. If we joke about it, we are also joking the last Parliament, even the President mentioned here about people who are assisted through this programme so they may improve the quality of their livestock that we intend to keep this ratio of 30 per class, we mean breeds. when we have hired teachers permanently. That is why even the people from the Finance Ministry were saying Moving on, we have not stopped Livestock Management here that they have frozen new employment, and it was and Infrastructure Development (LIMID) programme, stated publicly that at Education and Health ministries it is only rumours which are not truthful. Agriculture it has not been frozen, it was done so that these teachers budget clearly indicates that LIMID is still ongoing. can be hired. So, it is not something that someone can So if someone stands up and says, ‘LIMID programme stand here and say they are giving us an idea, no, we are has been abolished and they are now donating bucks, it already in progress with it as the current Government. It shows how irresponsible we are as leaders because we is what I have promised, and it is what we will continue come here and deceive the nation even though we know doing. project implementation is ongoing. Constitutional review like it was said, it is true, that we We also discussed education programme as I have have stated in our Manifesto that we are going to do it, mentioned that Education and Training Sector Strategic and even the President states that… Plan (ETSSP) is ongoing, it is true that it took long but we are making progress. Currently as we speak, we are HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. making it a reality, we are compelled to amend subjects which are going to be offered. MR MOLAO: …he assured that it will be carried out.

Hansard No 200 11 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR HIKUAMA: Elucidation. Thank you Honourable DR TSHABANG: Clarification. Thank you. I would Minister. So I believe that we now we agree that it is no like to know when this consultation began and when it longer a dream that could not be realised? It is a dream will end? I mean the timelines because every time when that is going to come to pass like we are told? we ask we are told that, consultation is still ongoing. Maybe you can clarify that part. MR MOLAO: You are the ones who are dreaming, and we are the ones who are implementing. So, that MR MOLAO: If the consultation is tiresome then it is what is happening at the moment. We have stated in means a democratic governance is going to be tiring our Manifesto that, after the elections we will have a for you. comprehensive Constitutional review and that students will be taught in their native languages, so you just HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… do not stand and say no, go and teach Seherero at HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Makakung, at Mathangwane go and teach Sekalaka without making amendments. You make amendments MR MOLAO: I am surprised by people who are first which will allow people to teach other languages, impatient about consultation. We are a Government of even as we are speaking, it is not that all of them know consultation, when it is complete we will tell you that how Sekalaka words are written. There is supposed to we are through and now we are starting. The same thing be an official orthography of those native languages, we are saying that … teachers should beb trained so that they can be able to teach students how to write those languages. It is a task HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. that you just do not wake up and say let us go and teach, MR MOLAO: …Constitutional review re… you start first by paving the way, books are written, and then there is an agreement regarding the correct HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. orthography that can be taught; that is what we have MR SPEAKER: There is nothing wrong with the done. That is where the consultation part comes in , it procedure, I know that for a fact. is what we have already started doing with some people at University of Botswana (UB) who have studied HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, he is not answering languages. We have already made a lot of progress with me accordingly. them on languages that have already been documented and have orthography, so that in the near future they MR SPEAKER: Oh, you do not like the answer? can start being taught in schools. Even when we start, HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… we should have precise consultation with the people in those areas to inform them about the introduction of MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… native languages in schools. We should know the rights of people who live in those places but not originally DR TSHABANG: I have never said I am tired of Baherero, Bakalaka, Basarwa or whatever tribe, if they consultation, I said when is the consultation beginning, are in a school where students are taught in their native and when does it end, that is what I want, that is all. language. Those are things we should have precise MR SPEAKER: I know that is what you said. consultation on, which will not divide the nation. That is what we are saying, these are not songs people sing MR MOLAO: That is what we witness Mr Speaker, when they are happy while there is no preparation that people who are impatient about consultation. What we was done which can unite the nation rather than divide are saying is that, consultation will continue to be there it. because we have to build a united nation, not the one that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. is divided by those who are impatient with consultation.

MR MOLAO: That is what we are saying that We have stated Honourable Hikuama, early childhood; Constitutional review like… we have stated in Paragraph 139, I do not know how the Honourable Member read it. We have stated that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. there are challenges in early childhood, and we started MR MOLAO: …it was stated, we are going to continue with 613 schools from the 775 primary schools that we with it. have. We also stated that we have collaborated with

12 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) who run a computer, should not donate one which is obsolete, pre-schools and day-care centres. In this financial year, and then go and dump it at a school and say, ‘I have we already have about 30 organisations we are working donated.’ Let the leadership of the Ministry know that with, we are engaging with them to assist us with pre- so and so is coming here with computers, and they primary education. So, I do not know what we did not should be checked whether they could be beneficial. If mention that … you go around schools, there are a lot of Information and Communications Technology (ICT) gadgets HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of clarification that are obsolete, which people were just dumping in Honourable Minister. schools. We will never allow such things. However, if MR MOLAO: …you still do not understand now you follow the right procedure, we have a partnerships because it is clearly written here. My time is up office whose duty is to connect everyone who wishes to Honourable Member. So, we have collaborated with assist in schools, the schools would know that comrade United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) in this Hikuama has come and he has this; could it be taken project through (ETSSP) so that programmes like to this school or that one, based on the reasons on the Public Private Partnership (PPP) of collaborating on table. That is what is being said, there is no one who this programme of early childhood is done for one year. can be barred from donating to schools. Comrade Next year we wish to make it at least two years. It is what we cannot allow is that, as Fidelis Molao, a BDP something we are doing and it is ongoing. (Domkrag) Member of Parliament having an agenda, then I go and find someone who can give me pencils to We need to work together with the community at large to take to all schools in Botswana; and then when I move assist the Government to run them and to take amenities around I go with a bunch of BDP (Domkrag) members there. A former teacher like you Honourable Hikuama, has to understand that when books are taken to a school, wearing red in schools. No, that would be wrong! We you do not just pick anything and then go and dump it cannot allow that. Our schools are sacrosanct; we have there. The books must be age appropriate. Research has to remove them from our partisan politics. shown that, if books in terms of the length, content and HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… vocabulary are not commensurate with the age of the children you are giving the books to, they lose interest MR MOLAO: If Honourable Balopi as the BDP in reading. When you go out there issuing books, the (Domkrag) Secretary General, he is here and I am not people who know something about curriculum should talking behind his back; if he says I am touring schools check whether those books are appropriate for Form 1 and I have goodies with me, tomorrow I will be in and Form 2 students. You do not just go out there and Gabane, Mmankgodi, and so forth, having an entourage dump them. That is what is being said. There is no one of BDP(Domkrag) members wearing red, distributing who has been barred from taking books to schools. We items in schools, we will tell him ‘it is wrong, you adhere to certain protocols and standards; the books are cannot do that.’ That is all I am saying. As a Member of checked whether they are appropriate to where they are Parliament you cannot be barred from associating with being donated. There should also be a proper channel of schools in your constituency, going around assisting donating them. them where necessary. If you are wearing party colours We are in the COVID-19 season, we have stopped and you take activists along, going around schools assemblies in schools, so when I come carrying whatever donating, we will tell you it is wrong because today it is I would be carrying, and then I gather students in it will be you and the next day it will be another from a certain place, yet we have told teachers to suspend a different party and so forth and our schools would assemblies and meetings of many people in schools, we become a political battleground. That is not supposed would be working contrary to what we have said. to be the case. We have to protect our schools and our children… HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of clarification. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR MOLAO: Denied. It would be contrary to what MR MOLAO: …from political issues. has been said. Therefore, we are saying, everyone, including anyone who is here who wishes to donate HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

Hansard No 200 13 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR MOLAO: That is what is being said. There are help us. This is something that really troubles us in the many people in Botswana who are donating to us and Shashe West constituency. they do not come wearing political party colours, and no one ever stops them from donating. We are still saying Now moving to agriculture Honourable Lesaso, it now that there is no one who is being barred from Integrated Support Programme for Arable Agriculture donating comrade. So just know that when you say Development (ISPAAD); Batswana have to prepare for books are going to be donated, especially textbooks; upcoming changes as it has been explained that the next research has shown that they must be age appropriate, programmes would be revamped looking at the aim to the vocabulary should be appropriate to such student . improve the dividends. When people have been given That is what is always done and our schools should not seeds, they should go and plough and take care of their be used as dumping grounds. fields and use fertilisers so that there would be yields where they are; and not loss as it is the case currently. As I conclude Mr Speaker, let me point out that, I aim to deliver to the expectations of Batswana but COVID-19 I believe I have said a few points, pointing out that is real. When we stand here as leaders, we have to indeed the President’s speech was very loaded. explain to the nation we are leading that COVID-19 Let me conclude by talking about electoral reforms is there. Although we want people to go out there and and corruption, I believe when we talk about the make a living, they should do so cautiously, taking care Constitutional Review, the issue of electoral reforms, because we can see in some first world countries that the statistics are approaching uncontrollable numbers will find space in the Constitutional Review that we and they are even resorting to lockdowns. We do not wish to run our elections the way Batswana would wish to go back to lockdowns because we were strict suggest. Not the current status where people are still and we were able to control the spread of the virus, until talking about being cheated in the last elections, even we reached where we are today. Some people out there those who were not there have joined. These are some are crying because of failure to adhere to COVID-19 of the things that surprise us and these do not add any protocols, and it is busy ravaging people’s lives. So we value to the economy or the shape of our democracy; wish Batswana could go out and make a living but they when people have been defeated, they have to accept should continue being wary of the existence of the virus; their fate and life should go on and they should prepare hence we should not talk as if the virus is no longer for the next elections; instead of lamenting forever that there. they have been cheated even though they do not have At the constituency, I am representing Mr Speaker, evidence, as it is obvious somewhere. Thank you Mr as I was saying we are expecting the Mmandunyane/ Speaker. Mathangwane road, which the relevant ministry promised that its tender will be floated in a not so MR LESASO (SHOSHONG): Thank you Mr Speaker. distant future. It is a road that will assist in terms of Thank you for giving me an opportunity to comment improving the status of the economy in the Shashe West about the state of my constituency. We often address constituency. In terms of our expectations regarding issues of the country in general forgetting those who health; Honourable Minister of Health we have clinics; sent us here. Like someone has been disputing the truth the Mathangwane clinic, Sebina, Semitwe, Borolong that is there. and others which we are promised in this National Mr Speaker, Shoshong Constituency is challenged Development Plan 11 (NDP 11), which I believe should with poverty and lack of services. If I can narrate the be constructed so that health could improve in my situation starting from that settlement which is along the constituency. Lephepe road from Otse all the way to Moralane, these The issue of water, as I was thanking you Honourable are settlement which are faced with shortage of jobs, Minister, we know that the people of Marobela and shortage of services including health care and there is Mafungo still do not have water because bowsers are not also a challenge of poverty. You cannot have one small enough. We are hopeful because the project had already room at Shoshong which is used as a maternity room started. We could improve the number of bowsers so that that is expected to service people from 13 settlements in in Marapong and Semitwe they could be given water as that constituency. 13 settlements do not have a maternity we await the completion of the project. This could really ward or a hospital that can accommodate women who

14 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

are in labour. This thing shows that people of Shoshong Dibete using their private vehicle, although we have are still lagging behind as far as developments are Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, concerned. Ministries of Education which have divided themselves so that they can assist. We do not have those kind of Shoshong residents do not have jobs, the only jobs that services. That is the exploitation which we will not are found there are at the farms of wealthy people who allow to continue. The state of the constituency of reside there. They take them to the farms and keep them Shoshong is disheartening, Something must be done there without paying them. They do not have anywhere and it must be done now. to go to seek health care. There are some farms in Shoshong called Sandveldt farms which are more The only job that is found at Shoshong constituency is than 200. In order for people who work there to access Ipelegeng. Imagine such a vast constituency like this health care, they have to be attended there and the health one, which splits and connect with constituencies like workers are not even equipped enough to go and assist Central Kalahari Game Reserve (CKGR) having only them. This is one of the things that are disadvantaging my jobs for herd boys, cleaners, Ipelegeng or Shoshong constituency. Mr Speaker, people in my constituency Choppies. There are no jobs at our constituency. These are suffering. I pleaded with the government, I am are heart-breaking situations which I want to present also pleading with Ministry of Health and wellness to before this Parliament so that even the ruling party introduce a maternity clinic at Kodibeleng and they can realise that, developments in this country are not stated that there are no midwives, I told them that at distributed evenly. Developments take place in other least they should allow us to use constituency funds areas while other areas are neglected. to build a maternity ward for people of Kodibeleng, Otse, Ikongwe and Moralane. They said that that cannot Let us talk about roads at Shoshong village, there happen if there are no midwives. So what should we do are poor roads. When elders there want to go to so that services can be availed to these people? There the hospitals, taxi drivers refuse to drive them there has to be a plan from headquarters. When I try to ask because there are no roads. I requested for infrastructure Minister of Health and Wellness to go to Shoshong to development from Honourable Minister Molale but that see what is happening there, he refuses to go there. I has not happened. pleaded with him, I also asked Vice President to plead HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are saying you with him. He instructed him to go to Shoshong to see asked for what? the situation there. MR LESASO: Internal infrastructure development, but HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are tarnishing it has failed to happen. I was here last time making this Honourable Dikoloti’s name. plea when we were reviewing that thing, but it has failed MR LESASO: He refused. No, he is here you can ask to happen. him. Land servicing programme by Honourable Mzwinila, I HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… asked for roads but that has failed to happen. It is not like I do not try to talk to Ministers that side about all these MR LESASO: He is here! Ask him if indeed I pleaded things, you are refusing but Shoshong people have sent with him. He refused to go there. These are heart- me to talk to you. I have to tell you that, yes, right now breaking issues. I visited all clinics in Shoshong, and Honourable Molao is building hostels at Kalamare, but out of all those clinics, there is no clinic that can assist they do not have teacher’s quarters. I do not know why Shoshong residents with essential health services they are carrying out that construction while leaving which they need. There are no ambulances, there are no other things out. maternity wards, and there are no consultation rooms. There is absolutely nothing. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

Let us move on to schools. Schools in Shoshong are MR LESASO: No, if you expand hostels, you are dilapidated. Even just a mere photocopier which teachers expanding number of teachers. There are eight teachers need to use to photocopy papers so that they can assist who are not going to have accommodation there. When students to do their homework is not there. You will you get to Dibete, a clinic is being built there but does see a teacher leaving Moralane to go and photocopy at not have a maternity ward and accommodation for

Hansard No 200 15 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

nurses. This type of haphazard planning, where one just debate in a language that the Shoshong Constituents can builds without planning is wrong. understand. Honourable Mzwinila when you address people in English, do you think Shoshong residents Moving on to COVID-19. I want to talk about Shoshong understand you? briefly, I was telling you that there is no electricity at Mokgenene and Poloka yesterday, yet you are talking Moving on to the issue of water where you talked about a knowledge-based economy and computers, you about waste water reclamation Honourable Mzwinila. are just bragging to them. We do not know how they are Honourable Mzwinila though you delayed, the time has going to access them since there is no electricity there. come for waste water reclamation because Botswana is These are the issues that have been discussed that, you experiencing shortage of water. I agree with you that we must do something for the people, so that they can also must take appropriate measures to ensure that we do not have what you are enjoying in your constituencies. I am exhaust the usage of the little we have. Like you said, not going to get tired of advocating for the Shoshong we need water reclamation. I agree with your idea that constituents.. we need to use waste water. Maybe we can start using it in stages to the point that people will start appreciating I have long asked for a road from Dibete to Otse, which its use before it gets to household taps and also because was going to make it easy for farmers of that area to we do not have our systems yet and we have not tested transport their produce closer to A1. That is still the case them. Again we have not tested our staff to see if they there, it is failing to happen. are competent and can be responsible enough to ensure HONOURABLE MEMBER: Makgalemele. that there is less contamination to the available water. I wish that we can have a programme of stage by stage MR LESASO: Makgalemele was a member of your development to the end which will take us there. I agree party, why are you even saying Makgalemele. with you that we have to reclaim waste water and use.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Makgalemele talked Honourable Mzwinila, hasten to repair damaged pipes about these things. in major villages. Right now you were talking about Masama project. I will keep talking about this issue. MR LESASO: Yes, if he mentioned them from that There is nothing wrong with pumping water from side and you failed to implement them then how will Masama but taking very precious underground water I succeed? The impact of COVID-19; Honourable and wastet is wrong. You know that water that is wasted Members, you always talk about COVID-19, that in Kanye is 40 per cent of the total demand of that people should wash their hands, wear masks and village. You are aware of water wastage in Molepolole, sanitize, but there is something that we have to address Thamaga, Moshupa and other areas. It is wrong of you in depth. People have lost their jobs. People are living to pump 60 litres of water from Masama underground, with stress. Right now people have diseases as a result such a precious resource and pump it underground of unemployment. People are experiencing challenges to Kanye. Firstly, that precious resource is wasted. in their lives. What I would like to know is what plans Secondly, you cannot recover the profits that Water you have to try and assist these people? Right now one Utilities Corporation (WUC) need to be able to develop of the challenges that we have is Gender Based Violence in other villages. That is why I am requesting that… (GBV) which has been brought about by the fact that, a lot of people have lost their jobs, and they do not MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER know what to do; there is anger, depression and stress. AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): There are diseases related to these things, which the Elucidation Mr Speaker. Thank you Honourable Government needs to deal with so as to relief the people Member. Thank you for your advice. My question is, the heavy burden that they are carrying. since we cannot do all of them at the same time, pumping and water distribution repairs, what should come first? The problem with you is that when you are told to wash your hands and observe other health protocols, that is all MR LESASO: Thank you Honourable Mzwinila. you think of, you are not going to look at other factors You see the 40 per cent that is being wasted, if it was which affect the lives of people. Let the Ministry of preserved, after repairing that side, the shortage that Health and Wellness find what can be done concerning you are decrying would not be the same as the one the invisible challenges that affect Batswana. I want to you anticipate when you pump from Masama. Maybe

16 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

you could pump North-South Carrier while preserving can be pumped up to because the North-South Carrier Masama. Repair damaged pipes in Kanye to conserve is supposed to be playing that role. It could have taken what you already have instead of having it wasted. precedence. Masama should be pumping when North- Repair pipes first and that is when you can start to South Carrier has got a problem, where there is road connect. maintenance or shortage. Right now we are doing the other way round, and it is wrong. You are depleting the Masama is supposed to be our reserve in times of need. very important resource of Masama. I therefore request At the moment it is not supposed to be a primary use. that you correct that and do it quickly Honourable Honourable Mzwinila, conjunctive use is the use of Mzwinila. surface water and if it is no longer available, that is when you can use underground water. You have done Moving on to education. At Shoshong, this education it the other way round. You take underground water and through Wi-Fi that you are talking about, will probably pump it outside but North-South Carrier project could remain a dream because as we speak, there are villages have long been executed, you are just sitting on it so that in my constituency which do not have electricity. The we connect Masama. important thing is that, there is a lot of pressure on teachers. We have senior teachers and Principals. Being HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... a senior teacher means you can no longer teach. You MR LESASO: No, it is invalid because the North- are given a responsibility to supervise a group of classes South Carrier 2.2 that is supposed to be connected has which are under you and teaching becomes secondary halted. You have halted Mmamashia treatment plant. to you. Minister of Education, I implore you to employ administrators of education so that teachers can focus HONOURABLE MEMBER: They are depleting the on their primary mandate which is teaching. We should reserve. have Education Administrators to focus on school administration. That is my request, that try to ensure that MR LESASO: You are depleting the reserve that is teachers do… you will find that there is a specialised supposed to stay there for us to be used in the future. Science teacher and because they have done well, they MR TSHERE: Elucidation Mr Speaker. Thank you are promoted. After promotion, they become a senior very much Honourable Lesaso. I am interested in the teacher. After that, they leave teaching and focus on issue that you raised of Masama because I think recently heading different classes. Instead of doing that, let this when we spoke, Honourable Khama said something person who has specialised, continue with their career very interesting that, ‘when we did a test run on Masama of being a teacher and promoted in that line and get project, all the boreholes in the surrounding areas dried Education Administrators who can be able to administer up.’ So, I am wondering if it is a feasible thing when these classes to monitor their performance or whether all the boreholes are all going to dry up and the farmers they use correct teaching methods. there left with no water because their boreholes have HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… dried up. Clarify that issue. Thank you. MR LESASO: I explained that, I do not understand MR LESASO: There is an element of truth in what which area you seek clarity from and you are wasting you are saying because indeed at the end, what you are my time. saying is the truth. At the end, Kgatleng residents… where is Kgabo? Regarding the Transport Sector Mr Speaker, the President talked about the Botswana’s road infrastructure HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… P50 billion worth. That is a big asset which has to be MR LESASO: Oh! Kgatleng residents, let me warn protected. This P50 billion covers a road leading from you in advance that at the end, the borehole depth that Shakawe to Francistown but it is now dilapidated. you dug to their level, you are going to hear that it has There was money spent on that road but we left it to be dried up, because of the drawdown the water table. At dilapidated to a point where it developed potholes all the the end you will hear that those boreholes have dried up way. So, I urge the relevant ministry which is responsible if this resource at Masama cannot be preserved. I am for roads infrastructure to learn to maintain roads well not saying it should not be pumped. There is a need for in time; preventative maintenance. They must learn that water where necessary but there should be a limit that roads must be monitored just like vehicles. You do not

Hansard No 200 17 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

use it without service. The reason why there is provision Electronic services; we are referring to e-health, of service is to avoid a situation whereby a vehicle gets e-education and others. Without creating technology damaged while driving. That is exactly how a road must foundation in Botswana at primary and pre-schools, be treated. there is no way how we will achieve our goal in terms of technology. If you consider our primary schools in While driving along the road, you have to patch Botswana which have access to technology which we somewhere at some stage and you have to note potholes are referring to, you are not going to get more than 20 degrade roads even more. I am saying this because the per cent of them. I am saying this because we are still Minister has been boasting about potholes that are found talking about the Fourth Industrial Revolution today, so at Palapye-Serowe, you do not do that. You prevent why not just accept that we are in the Second Industrial deterioration of a road, instead of fixing it with potholes Revolution? Right now it is a dream to go into the as you keep patching. So this P50 billion must at least Third Industrial Revolution in Botswana as we speak be increased to P75 billion, because these roads should in most villages. As such, I urge us to be honest about be taken care of and maintained in a proper way and a our current status and ensure that step by step… yes, timely manner. That is my only request. we can separate this country into a place like Gaborone, Francistown and other places, where we can agree that Housing and rural development; it is not possible for we are in the Third Industrial, but the rest of the country, us as leaders to turn a blind eye to the fact that our let us talk about second or first because that is where people are lagging behind, they lack proper housing. we are. Honourable Molale, there is a programme under your ministry which talks about rural… I was not aware that HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… you are providing the needy with houses. So I request us to establish a fully-fledged rural housing development MR LESASO: Yes, it is not a problem to dream about it which is under a ministry that will look into developing as a leader but the truth of the matter is, this is our reality. housing for the rural communities. People are suffering, Can you tell us where Mokgenene and Poloka falls they cannot afford to build dignified houses. We still under? How do you categorise them, Fourth Industrial have many cases of rape in many areas simply because Revolution? It is the first because they are still learning people cannot afford to build houses for themselves. how to switch on a light simply because they have not You will find situations whereby people are congesting seen a bulb. This is also as a result of the Government in a small hut simply because they do not have a choice. which has been reigning. So I urge us to ensure that we take care of rural dwellers. These people get plots and are taken by us, the ones who HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… can afford to build dignified houses. The Government MR LESASO: I am here to represent people today. If must ensure that these people are not cheated as far you want me to sit down and keep quiet, reserve the as their plots are concerned. We must deduce a safety land for Batswana and protect it for them. I am saying protection which secures rural dwellers plots regardless this because in future, Batswana are going to find of how poor they are. I am saying this because nothing themselves… Honourable Mzwinila, if you can cross dignifies a person more than owning a plot, they can over to the other side of Metsimotlhabe right now, all show it to their children in future and say, even though I those plots have been taken by Chinese people; literally have nothing, here is my plot. all of them. Just go and do an investigation. I am told they plant vegetables right now and they are going to So I urge you to include that in your assessments start exporting them to China, these Chinese. For this Minister Mzwinila, such that if you give a person a reason, I urge us to make sure that this land is handed plot, there should be a way in which people who are in back to Batswana. They have not sold this land because dire poverty such as in areas like Mokgenene, Poloka, they did not want this land but because they had no Moralane, Otse and Kodibeleng…if you pass there and choice. There are no opportunities for Batswana through ask if there is anyone who is selling a plot, they will which they can earn a living. show it to you so you can pay P5 and own it. I want that to come to an end. Stop abusing rural dwellers and Moving on to goat farming; you are going to give making their lives miserable because you will find that Batswana goats so that they can rear them. I wish to read they are abused only because they are poor. what I wrote here so you appreciate what is required

18 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

before giving them goats I am also interested so first MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable and foremost we must have this programme; artificial Member for Serowe North, Mr Mathoothe. insemination for goats. That must be promoted and would create jobs for the youth as they will be able to HONOURABLE MEMBER: Good afternoon Mr assist veterinarians in rural areas as well as manage to Speaker! I will take it for him. multiply goats. Two; these goats are going to be given to …Silence… other people than rural farmers. When we talk about this citizen inclusion, it talks about including others, people MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Sefhare- like me. That is citizen inclusion which you are looking Ramokgonami, Dr Gobotswang. for. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… He is still out, he requested that I take it for him.

MR LESASO: This is to say, we have to make sure …Silence… that indigenous Batswana are the ones who benefit from these things, and they must be capacitated. You have MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Francistown to engage people who are really going to assist none South, Honourable Mmolotsi. other than Batswana so they produce livestock which MR MMOLOTSI: Question number three Mr Speaker. we need. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister of Employment, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Labour Productivity and Skills Development. MR LESASO: Small stock demonstrators who are …Silence… going to train Batswana on how to take care of what they are keeping and their small stock. It must be something MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Gaborone that you must do, you are not supposed to throw goats to Bonnington South, Honourable Greeff. people as you have been doing, as you have been giving them through Livestock Management and Infrastructure HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…take it Development (LIMID). for him Honourable Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. …Silence…

MR LESASO: We must have cooperatives where these MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Tonota, goats are going to be marketed because many rural Honourable Moatlhodi. Batswana like those who are at Mokgenene… HONOURABLE MEMBER: He requested that I take HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. it for him Mr Speaker…

MR LESASO: …it is going to be impossible for them HONOURABLE MEMBER: No Mr Speaker. to transport a single goat to Dibete so it can be sold HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… because they do not have transport. They do not have sufficient resources to transport that goat there. We also HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Laughter!)… have to ensure that they have accessible places where they can sell those goats, but that does not prepare for… PAJE MILITARY ACADEMY

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members! MR B. MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): asked We will continue after lunch. Let us adjourn now and be the Minister of Defence, Justice and Security to state: back at 2:00 p.m. (i) how much was used to design the Paje Military PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:05 P.M. FOR Academy; and APPROXIMATELY ONE HOUR (ii) when the construction of the academy will PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 2:05 P.M. commence. QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Later Date.

Hansard No 200 19 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

DISTRICT ESTABLISHMENT IN TSWAPONG In conclusion Mr Speaker, I want to bring to the attention REGION of this Honourable House that a similar question was asked during November 2019 sitting of Parliament by DR K. GOBOTSWANG (SEFHARE- Honourable Monnakgotla of Kgalagadi North regarding RAMOKGONAMI): asked the Minister of Local the upgrading of Hukuntsi Sub-District and I gave a Government and Rural Development to state: similar answer. I thank you Mr Speaker.

(i) if there are plans to establish a fully-fledged MR LUCAS: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. district in the Tswapong Region; I was saying Honourable Minister the Decentralisation (ii) when that will happen and if not; Policy issue has long been there. We hear that the draft is ready and now the question is when should we expect (iii) the reasons thereof, given the vastness of the area this policy; in Parliament; in February, July or State of and the population size. the Nation Address (SONA) similar to this one? It is very important to know when we can expect it so that ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL we can also prepare for it this side. Thank you. GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR AUTLWETSE): Good afternoon Mr Speaker. MR AUTLWETSE: Mr Speaker, the Decentralisation Policy is not related to the SONA in any way, whether Mr Speaker, I have not yet considered upgrading it becomes available during SONA or during any Tswapong Region to a fully-fledged district. However, Parliament sitting, it will depend on when it passed in view of this request and similar ones presented through the Cabinet, which is when it will come to before me, I have found it an opportunity to consider Parliament. I am requesting the Honourable Member to this holistically. I must state that this exercise will accept that I am saying it is ready, it cannot come here if entail extensive consultations with the affected councils it is not ready. Thank you. and their communities as prescribed by the Local Government Act of 2012, Section 3 as read with Section MR TSHERE: Supplementary. Thank you Honourable 13. Speaker. Honourable Minister I hear you about the issue of upgrading of sub-districts, even at Mahalapye It must as a matter of necessity Mr Speaker, be carried we are waiting for it. I cannot clearly understand the out in a thorough and structural manner to ensure that process you are talking about regarding how it will all the requisite steps are taken into consideration as go because you are saying there is consultation with prescribed by the law. Thereafter, the key determining Councilors which will come to an end, you said next factor will be resource availability. year, but when you are answering for the second time In view of the above, my ministry is in the process of you are saying it will be determined when it was taken concluding the Decentralisation Policy which will help to the Cabinet. What exactly are you saying in terms of in the orderly implementation of this request. The draft timelines? When can we expect to see that programme is ready and final consultations will be conducted before being implemented Honourable Minister? Thank you. end of this financial year that is COVID-19 permitting. MR AUTLWETSE: Mr Speaker, my answer is that Mr Speaker, I must emphasise that any consideration before the end of this financial year, it will be complete, for establishment of a new district has nothing to do that is the timeline. I do not understand if there is any with Tribal Territories Act. Perceptions that declaration Honourable Member here who does not know when our of sub-districts to become fully-fledged districts will financial year ends because I am asked questions that break up tribal territories does not hold. I must hasten are in the public domain. to assert that just as we currently have district councils that are made up by more than one tribal territory, we HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… can equally have more than one district council in a tribal territory. Where townships are declared in tribal MR AUTLWETSE: I am saying towards the end of the territories, there is a due process that is always followed financial year. as was done with Jwaneng, Sowa and Selebi Phikwe. In HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… all these, consultations have always been at the core as it is the anchor of our democratic process. HONOURABLE MEMBER: 31st March.

20 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary. of April, 2020. The department resubmitted names of students who were owed allowances for payment MR SPEAKER: No. and as at September 2020, 612 students had collected BRIGADES STUDENTS’ ALLOWANCE REVIEW allowances. The department sent notification of arrears on allowances to Botswana Post and collections are MR W. B. MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): made by the students at any given time. Mr Speaker, the asked the Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity process of paying students who are owed allowances is a and Skills Development to state: continuous process as allowance arrears are honoured as and when institutions submit names of students who are (i) whether his ministry has any plans of reviewing owed. In general, all arrears are managed and payment allowances for brigades students from the current effected upon receipt of such notification by institutions. paltry P300.00; I thank you Mr Speaker.

(ii) if he is aware that some students are yet to receive MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary. Honourable their allowances for the month of April which they Minister, could there be special reasons why those at the could not collect due to the lockdown; and brigades are given a grant of P300, when some at other (iii) his ministry’s plans to pay those students who are tertiary institutions are given an allowance of P1200? owed allowances. Why can those at the brigades like those in other tertiary institutions not be given an allowance of P1200 or MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR whatever amount so that they could live like others in PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT these institutions? (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon. Mr Speaker, my ministry acknowledges that MR BALOPI: The agreement that they should be paid P300 allowance paid to brigade students is not sufficient P300, was a joint agreement with those representing considering the cost of living. As a result, the ministry schools; the National Student Representative Council is considering to receive student allowances at brigades and the school heads of these institutions. These brigades, after consultations with the relevant stakeholders. as you know, were not run by Government; they were run by trusts and so forth. When the Government took Mr Speaker, however, it should be noted that the over, that agreement was reached. The agreement was allowance offered at brigade institutions is a grant, that since there are no funds, they would just consider therefore, it cannot be compared to the allowance that the little they can give them and support them with the is offered to students at the tertiary institutions as part equipment they need after completion of their studies. of their sponsorship by the Department of Tertiary From there they would go out there and make a living, Education Financing (DTEF), which they have to repay applying what they would have learnt at school. In the upon completion of their training. I am aware that some end, since the funds were not enough, it was agreed students may not have received their allowances for the that they would be given P300. This P300 was not month of April due to lockdown. May I appraise this Honourable House that the student allowances for 8, covered in the ministry’s budget because by the time 825 students amounting to P5, 547, 000 for March and the Government took over; the budget estimates had April were sent to Botswana Post on the 20th March, already been done. It was then agreed that the Human 2020 to run the payroll which runs for a period of 30 Resource Development Council (HRDC) through the days under normal circumstances. training levy, in 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 financial years, should be the one issuing this allowance for those In this case of COVID-19, it was extended by two two financial years. months up to the 30th of June, 2020 to the extent that the allowances for March-April and May ran concurrently Now going forward, we are making a review that the in the month of May 2020. Learners were informed way these brigades are should be improved; as we on the availability of their allowances on the 23rd of go on, one of the intensions is to collaborate with the March and 24th of May 2020 respectively. Through the private sector and work jointly for their benefit. You ministry’s Facebook page, out of the 8, 825 students will recall that that allowance is a grant unlike in other 7, 832 students received their allowances while 992 institutions where we know that when the Government students did not collect their allowances as at the 30th assists a student, they have to pay back that money.

Hansard No 200 21 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

For brigades they are given these funds, and they do to do, something they are good at and they would be key not have to pay them back. It was considered that they players in our economy. would just buy a few toiletries because they are given meals and accommodation. That is why their allowance SHORTAGES IN BONNINGTON SOUTH does not increase at the pace we have observed in other SCHOOLS institutions. In our next review, together with those MR C. GREEFF (GABORONE BONNINGTON we shall collaborate with from the private sector or SOUTH): asked the Minister of Basic Education if he parastatals; we shall see how we could ensure increase is aware of shortage of textbooks, furniture, internet and bringing better amenities to these institutions. connection and tablets in the three primary schools HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary. and junior secondary schools respectively of Gaborone Bonnington South Constituency; and if so, to state how MR SPEAKER: The last supplementary. he will urgently remedy the situation.

MR MMOLOTSI: Further supplementary. Honourable ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION Minister are you aware that the students in tertiary (MS MAKWINJA): Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank institutions who are given better allowances are also you Honourable Member. given accommodation just like those in brigades? Secondly Honourable Minister, do you realise that Mr Speaker, I am aware of the shortage of text books, giving brigade students P300 as opposed to the amount furniture and internet connection in the three primary of money given to those in other institutions brings schools and junior secondary schools in Gaborone about stigma to brigades or vocational education? It Bonnington South Constituency. The average shows that vocational education is not highly regarded availability of primary level text books in the Gaborone as opposed to the academic route. This ends up putting Bonnington South Constituency schools is 42.4 per cent us in a situation whereby most of the students end and for junior secondary text books average availability up preferring the academic route as opposed to the is 21 per cent. vocational route. The regional office has placed orders for primary level textbooks and these are currently being delivered to MR BALOPI: Honourable Mmolotsi, I hear you. That schools. All secondary schools are currently procuring is why we are saying we want to end the stigma that you textbooks for themselves. The provision of student tables are talking about. If I start with your point where you and chairs is generally adequate with the introduction are saying this difference makes others look down upon of shifting, with the exception of Tlhabologo Primary vocational training; we are saying they will not pay back School which needs additional student desks. this money. For some it is loans, right? In the end, they are going to pay these monies, hopefully. Besides the Teachers’ furniture is generally old and in need of money, we do not want to weigh what is being done replacement. All schools have internet connectivity, at brigades in terms of the allowance that they are although the footprint in the schools is limited and given as students. That is why we are emphasising the needs to be extended across the whole of the schools’ importance of skills development in its vastness. We academic areas. The Honourable Member, Mr Speaker, are talking about shifting our economy from relying will be provided with a table showing the status of on minerals and others and shifting it to a knowledge- issues raised per school for appreciation. based economy. That would help us to see what we Mr Speaker, my ministry will continue to address these need, which would help to propel us to a knowledge- shortages in conjunction with our sister Ministry of based economy. We have to seriously ensure that these Local Government and Rural Development as and when brigades are in a positon to do that. At the end, we funds permit. We thank you. shall be focusing on knowledge and it does not mean those who would not be having skills would be looked MR GREEFF: Supplementary. Thank you Minister. I down upon at that time. I believe our collaboration with hear you. Maybe I should differ with you a little bit and those in the private sector as I have already mentioned; tell you that there are no textbooks in all Bonnington training and coming up with the needed skills that can South primary schools. I think you need to correct that. take our country forward would improve the skills status Since you are saying that the average availability of text and the economy. Our children would have something books is about 37.8 per, when are you going to supply

22 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

textbooks at primary schools? You did not talk about MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, you have no Tablets, which primary schools and secondary schools supplementary, you have disagreements. in my constituency have received tablets? If they are there or they are not there, when are you going to supply MR GREEFF: I am asking Mr Speaker. tablets at these schools? MR SPEAKER: Ask the question then.

MS MAKWINJA: Thank you Honourable Greeff. MR GREEFF: Yes. I am asking about tablets in Kgale Starting with textbooks, Bophirima Primary School; Hill, it is how many years since their batteries died inadequate supply of textbooks due to insufficient without replacing them? funding, but total average availability as we speak in this particular school is 24.9 per cent. Tlhabologo MS MAKWINJA: Thank you Honourable Member. As Primary School; again the same problem, here much I said yesterday, you will find that in a lot of cases, in worse because it is 51.54 per cent. Boswa Primary each subject, there might be more than one textbooks School; 50.9 per cent. Kgale Hill Junior Secondary that have been recommended for that particular class. School; 14.1 per cent, better than the ones that I said Here we are talking about availability of books that are before. Marulamantsi; 26. 5 per cent. Gaborone West in a particular class. To say that a class has no books, Junior Secondary School; average availability 22.64 per we are yet to confirm that Mr Speaker, and we will do cent. that. If indeed classes do not have books, then we have a major problem. When you talk tablets, starting with Bophirima Primary School, there are no tablets in Bophirima Primary As far as the batteries’ issue is concerned for the tablets, School. In Tlhabologo Primary School, there are 54 I must say that most if not all of these tablets that have tablets from Huawei and Ministry of Basic Education been distributed, are donated. A lot of this equipment (MOBE) partnership. They are functional at that school. like photocopiers and things like that are donated and Boswa Primary School; there are no tablets. Kgale we suffer the same fate in terms of now looking for Hill Junior Secondary School; there are 50 tablets batteries that are not in the market, because they are not functional due to unavailability of batteries in the probably exported from somewhere. I think that is the market. Marulamantsi Junior Secondary School; no problem. We will follow this issue up. Thank you. tablets and Gaborone West JSS no tablets. MR MOSWAANE: Supplementary. Thank you. Internet connectivity; I think this one is the same in Minister, let me quickly ask you a question regarding this terms of at Bophirima Primary School. School Heads important issue. I can hear that you are stressing the 7 connected with Mascom Wi-fi, and Mascom has adopted per cent availability point. What is happening regarding the school. Botswana Fibre Network (BOFINET) the 93 per cent of textbooks which are not available in connection is incomplete. Tlhabologo Primary School; schools since it seems like you are even proud to mention Zebra Wi-fi and Mascom Wi-fi. Boswa Primary School; this 7 per cent as if you are performing well? Do you again Mascom Wi-fi, and the school has been adopted. want to tell me that there is still a Government that can Kgale Hill Junior Secondary School is connected to boast about the 7 per cent availability of textbooks? strategic positions, computer lab and admin block only. When you were still a student, did the 7 per cent pass Marulamantsi; connection to admin block and computer rate symbolise that you are performing well? This 7 per lab. Gaborone West JSS admin block and computer lab. cent availability of yours shows low performance. Can Thank you. you please tell us what is so difficult for you to surpass 50 per cent to 80 per cent? What is the challenge since MR GREEFF: Further supplementary. Thank you Mr you are allocated a budget every year? Thank you. Speaker. Mr Speaker, I did not want to talk about this issue here, but I want to tell the Minister that the way he MS MAKWINJA: Thank you Honourable Moswaane. is presenting the issue of textbooks, is quite misleading. I must say I did not say 7 per cent. What I can tell the You cannot say that textbooks are there while other Honourable Member, I will repeat that in most of these classrooms do not even have a single textbook. That is subjects as I said yesterday, there are more than one not true. Maybe you should go and assess this issue or textbooks and we buy as funds permit. Honourable visit these schools to see the situation that I am talking Moswaane with all due respect, please bear with us, about. Secondly… meaning that we do have constraints as far as funding

Hansard No 200 23 Thursday 12th November 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

is concerned, but we try. Every year schools are given I can assure the Honourable Member that the Veterans money to buy books and they prioritise which are more Affairs Department has been established at the ministry. critical for the learning in the classroom. Thank you. It is responsible for among others coordinating the benefits and welfare of retired members, including MR HIKUAMA: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. payments of outstanding claims with the Botswana Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I know and Defence Force. I thank you Mr Speaker. understand that English is one of the languages that are allowed in this Honourable House, but for the sake of MR MOSWAANE: Supplementary. Thank you. the public who are listening, I would like to request the Honourable Minister, why can the Government not Honourable Ministers to explain important questions come up with an idea to exonerate itself? I am saying like this one in Setswana because they are fluent in this because in the past five years, Honourable Shaw Setswana, so that people can clearly understand what Kgathi fought a war he could not win because complaints they are saying. keep coming in. Do you not find it imperative to elect an independent commission to investigate because MR SPEAKER: There is no point of procedure there. currently you are investigating and answering yourselves RETIRED SOLDIERS PAYMENTS instead of getting a different opinion in investigations? Thank you Minister. MR P. P. P. MOATLHODI (TONOTA): asked the Minister of Defence, Justice and Security to confirm MR MMUSI: Honourable Member, I believe that the whether the former Minister of Defence, Justice and Veterans Affairs Department that we have established Security when addressing retired soldiers at an Annual will sort out these issues. Thank you Mr Speaker. General Meeting (AGM) in Mahalapye in 2003 promised MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. Honourable and assured them that all those who were owed shall be Minister, do you think Honourable Member of Tonota, paid in less than 120 days; and if so, to state: Honourable Moatlhodi can out of nowhere come to (i) what is still the hold up; Parliament and ask this question of a meeting which was held in 2003, as to when the retired soldiers will be paid (ii) when precisely they will be paid; and without having met them at all?

(iii) if there are any back pays. Secondly, why did you not talk to the Honourable Member privately that there is nothing like that? Do you MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND not think you were just lying in wait to embarrass him SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker. with the detailed information that you have? Do you Mr Speaker, I am not aware of an Annual General not think you could have saved Parliament time? Thank Meeting of retired soldiers that took place in 2003 you. in Mahalapye, where an assurance was made by the Minister of Defence, Justice and Security that all retired MR MMUSI: Honourable Member, when I arrived, I members owed would be paid in less than 120 days. tried to look for the Honourable Member to alert him Suffice to indicate that the Ministry of Defence, Justice that maybe we should later date it. As you can see, you and Security had not yet come into existence in 2003, are the one taking a question for him, I was not aware as it was only established in 2010. I am however, aware who is representing him. That is the case. Thank you that the Minister of Defence, Justice and Security was Mr Speaker. invited to address the Botswana Defence Force Retired Members’ Association Annual General Meeting in MR RAMOGAPI: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Palapye on the 20th May, 2017, in Mahalapye on the 21st Speaker. Honourable Minister, you are one of the July, 2018 and again in Mahalapye on the 8th June, 2019. Ministers I greatly appreciate because you take your No known undertakings or assurances were made by work seriously and most of the time you even research. the Honourable Minister at any of these three meetings In short Honourable Minister, you are saying the alluded to. However, several issues were discussed Veterans Affairs Department you have formed is looking regarding the claims for various welfare and human into these issues and you are saying that retired soldiers resource related compensation claims. Members were will be paid their outstanding payments. Honourable informed of the establishment of the Veterans Affairs Minister, what caused these outstanding payments to a Unit in the Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security. point where one ended up retiring? Right now in our

24 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

constituencies, retired soldiers are troubling us because HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. they want to know what caused the delay of their payments. Thank you sir. RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker and thank you Honourable Member. Like I have said, we were still Motion setting up this department. It was established to look (Resumed Debate) into and assess these issues. I believe that as they come and report their queries and they go through their files, MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, that is when we can locate where the challenge is. Right when we adjourned for lunch, Honourable Lesaso was now I do not know what caused that challenge. We saw on the floor and he was left with five minutes 35 seconds. it fit to establish this department to be able to focus MR KEKGONEGILE: Procedure. Mr Speaker, we on these issues and solve them. Instead you could be have two Notice Papers in front of us showing different congratulating me for establishing this department and Motions to be debated tomorrow. The Notice Paper dated wishing us well. Thank you Mr Speaker. the 10th indicates that the first Motion is by Honourable MR MOSWAANE: Supplementary. Honourable Saleshando while the one dated the 11th says the first Minister, what is the problem in having an independent Motion is by Honourable Monnakgotla. We do not commission investigating? How can the idea of being know which one to prepare for and why the change. a referee and a player in a match you have interest in MR SPEAKER: Honourable Lesaso, you have the benefit these veterans? I am saying this Minister because floor sir! you cannot make mistakes, correct them yourself, praise yourself and control just about everything. You are HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)... praising yourself that you established a department for people that you know you will select biasedly because MR LESASO (SHOSHONG): Thank you Mr Speaker. you want to protect yourself. I am saying that because I am left with a few minutes but I wanted to conclude by you want to be a player and a referee in a game that you saying, our country has shortage of data or information do not want to lose. Thank you. that can assist us in decision making and how we can best deal with problems or challenges that we have. I want MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker and thank you to encourage Members across the aisle that we should Honourable Member. Honourable Member, I will be serious when it comes to information collection and consider your point, I do not dispute it. I will look into it other things which affect us in Botswana so that we will intently as the department continues to function. Thank be able to plan and do things accordingly. you Mr Speaker. We were attacked by COVID-19 pandemic. If you HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary. consider the fact that we were previously attacked by HIV/AIDS, that we are still using that data since it was a MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary. pandemic and a virus that killed people, it is something MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Supplementary. which could assist us in terms of which measures to put Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, since we in place going forth. So as a Government, let us make an hear you saying you have already established Veterans effort with things that may help Batswana to think about Affairs Department, what is the waiting period for the future. Moreover, as a Government, think about the retired soldiers to have had their issues resolved? Thank future of Batswana in relation to health and education. you. We have been discussing issues of education. The MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you information that is given here indicates that we do not Honourable Member. At this moment I cannot commit have readily available data which shows what was to a timeline. I believe that I will be able to explain donated to schools which are in Gaborone as well as everything in the next financial year of 2021 in details what they need. This was going to show what kind of because paying an individual requires us to have assistance suits these schools to those who are interested. requested for funds from the Ministry of Finance. Thank So let us be serious and ensure that we have data which you Mr Speaker. may assist this country going forth.

Hansard No 200 25 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Moving on to youth; they need education, jobs and improves because of us, so we have to assist one another opportunities through which they can earn a living. They in doing that. It is not possible to master everything are expecting these things from you as a Government, hence we have to join hands and develop this country they are concerned that you are not empowering nor together, we have to be cooperative as a Parliament. supporting them so they can move forward. They are We acknowledge that you won and therefore governing enquiring about employment opportunities since they this country, nothing will be taken from you until your graduate from schools every year but cannot find jobs five years expire, but listen to the advice from this side. anywhere. Appreciate the fact that we also studied in this country and we know how to develop it. It is inappropriate for The leader of Opposition suggested that maybe we you to refute all our suggestions instead of considering should assess and find out whether it will be possible them, so that we move forward. You have now become to request elders who are 50 years and above to retire the opposition. So we do not know what to do so that so vacancies can be created for the youth. In the past our country may move forward. two years, it was reported that close to 100 000 or more youths who graduated from universities are You have been governing this country for 50 years, so unemployed. The truth is, we cannot afford to train listen to our advice so you can take it from there. Thank the youth who do not have opportunities since the job you Mr Speaker. market is congested. We can alternatively offer these elderly people some opportunities so they may create HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… vacancies for the youth. They come with new ways, MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, fresh innovative ideas and new knowledge and skills SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR which may be used to improve our country because we RAKGARE): Thank you very much Mr Speaker. tend to forget some things as we grow up. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. As I wrap up Mr Speaker, let us make sure that we develop services in the districts so they will be able to Mr Speaker, we came to this Parliament as different make their own decisions as they are responsible enough parties even though we won elections in many numbers. to run their own affairs by finding out what they have We have members of Umbrella for Democratic Change as well as what they lack, find our services which they (UDC), Botswana Patriotic Front (BPF) and one can offer so that central Government will offer them member from Alliance for Progressive (AP). We differ assistance there and there. Let us empower them so they in many things Mr Speaker and I know very well that will be able to run their own schools, hospitals, water as even though we differ in terms of our party affiliation, well as appointing their people. Let us make sure that we from the very beginning, one of the things which unites devolve this thing so that we avoid situations whereby us is games. I will start my presentation by urging the central Government, while Honourable Molale is at Honourable Members of Parliament to commend our Gaborone, does not control the whole country because women because they won at South Africa where we he is not going to manage it properly as he will not be competed in the Council of Southern Africa Football getting enough information. If our districts are managed Associations (COSAFA) Women Championships. by responsible people, it will help us to move forward. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… Lastly; I urge the ruling Government to learn to accept MR RAKGARE: We have just finished our game at advice. It is so disappointing that even at our age, when Port Elizabeth and won 2-1 against Zambia 2-1. Our they stand up, there is absolutely nothing that we can women have made history and they will be playing learn from them. Consider these men who are sitting in in the final against Malawi on Saturday. Moreover, I front and those sitting at the back, they taught you at urge us to encourage them, let us applaud them as they the universities and some of them advised you in some have qualified for the finals as we are sure that win is areas. Unfortunately, you are simply listening to them guaranteed. as they present before you, you will be discarding what they say later, you do not listen to anything that they say. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… So I urge you to learn to take advice so you will be able to improve this country. The intention is not to show MR RAKGARE: I am very grateful Honourable that we are wiser than you but to ensure that this country Members especially that there will be many games

26 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

tonight, our national team; The Zebras will be playing different ways. It has affected us negatively, most of the with Zambia at Zambia. I believe we will also support sectors have been affected and many people no longer them in the same manner so they can win such that we get what they were getting before COVID-19 pandemic. can finish what we started on Monday in Botswana. At our Ministry of Youth Empowerment, Sport and The last thing still on this issue Mr Speaker, this morning Culture Development, we might be affected more than our ministry promised to award these women with P250 everyone else. I have shown in the past that if there are 000 as a way of appreciating them. I believe those are people who have been greatly affected, it is the artists, efforts of encouraging them so they may improve their they were the first to close, as we know that nowadays we performance. cannot have festivals. We cannot have gigs, we cannot do anything. The poor people have been greatly affected HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… because there is absolutely nothing. Their families are falling apart. So that means that as the Government, we HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… have to see what we can do.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Not so long ago after the outbreak of the virus, one of the things we saw as necessary to do in order to assist MR RAKGARE: Mr Speaker, we came here this our artists is that we offered Relief Fund in which, on afternoon to… top of what Honourable Matsheka through Botswana MR BOKO: On a point of clarification. Thank you Mr Unified Revenue Service (BURS) was doing, we made Speaker. Mr Speaker, I am one of the people who hates a request to them, we were given that permission and hypocrisy. Minister Rakgare will recall; the words he we offered them what we offered as our artists. I am used when working on the radio since I used to follow here this afternoon, and let me also indicate that we are him closely, he mentioned that as Batswana we should in talks with the Ministry of Finance and Economic refrain from awarding people when we finally see that Development, because it really looks like it is going they are performing better. Contrary to what he believes, to be a challenge to open up again. Since the advice he is now commending the idea that they are going to be from the health officials is that, we cannot open at the awarded with the amount that he stated even though he moment considering how the virus is growing every day has been against this idea. Minister, I encourage you to in our country. We have to find something to assist our withdraw that because it is wrong for us to award people artists with. I believe that in the near future, maybe we at the urge of breakthrough. We should have promised will have a better answer which will satisfy them. Even to award them at the very beginning. I know that you though we know that some of them through their shows, will address it wisely. Thank you. made a lot of money, what we will be offering them will just be a small amount but it is something. MR RAKGARE: I believe I am no longer presenting Mr Speaker, we are here… on the radio but in Parliament. You talked about radio related issues but the truth is, we are going to continue MR SALESHANDO: Clarification. I was saying to support our children. We are motivating them and before you finish with the one of how they have been the date does not matter. The truth of the matter is, assisted, there are still many complaints that there our women performed well, they qualify for finals and were those who were not able to be assisted but they we have to support them. If there is anything which believe that they qualify. What are you doing so that the Government can do to motivate them, we must do those people can be listened to, so that their cases can it so they can move forward. Moreover, we are going be closed quickly? to sit and devise what to do as they will be playing on Saturday. MR RAKGARE: Thank you Honourable Leader of the Opposition. It is true there are those who protested. Some Honourable members, we are here this afternoon after the of them are those who did not meet the requirements President gave the State of the Nation Address (SONA) that were set up. We promote unity in our country. concerning his intentions towards the country in the past We are promoting respect between all our sectors. If 12 months. This speech comes at a time where we are there is an organisation, like there is an organisation of attacked by COVID-19 pandemic and we all agree that Copyright Society of Botswana (COSBOTS), that we it has stopped our usual jobs, it has affected our lives in know most of them register with and they are members,

Hansard No 200 27 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

some chose to not register with COSBOTS, it becomes has promised, whether it is last year, whether it is 2018 a problem because when we are assisting them, we need SONA or the one we are currently discussing, those to know who we are assisting, their location and how promises are going to be fulfilled because that is the they can be assisted. So we believe that everything will commitment we make as the Government. We believe go according to plan because after we offered the relief, we are going to achieve these things because we are we saw a lot of artists in Botswana joining COSBOTS, committed to changing the lives of Batswana. So the because it is important to be organised. Honourable Arts Council is here. Why did they not talk about it that, Saleshando, we talked…and let me also thank you as no, even though the President made promises that were Members of Parliament, we talked about the last Arts not fulfilled since they were saying he makes empty Council not so long ago which we believe our arts are promises, why can they not say that here are some of going to be even more organised with that Arts Council. them that were fulfilled? They will not say that because We are hoping that as we are still negotiating with their issue is politics, so that Batswana can lose hope on Honourable Matsheka, if we are successful and he gives this Government. us permission, we will be able to focus on all those who were affected and also qualify to receive that relief. The President may not have addressed…SONA did not address numerous issues of sport, which I believe are I was talking about the Arts Council here. Mr Speaker, there. There are a number of them happening and those if you go to last year’s State of the Nation Address that began this year, or between 2019 November and (SONA) that His Excellency the President delivered on now, which we believe we are going to use to develop the 18th November, at page 39 paragraph 185. I request sport in Botswana. For example; we have a programme to quote. in which we have collaborated with the Ministry of Basic Education to see how we are going to develop MR SPEAKER: Please do! sport in schools. We have a committee that we have MR RAKGARE: Thank you very much. The President collaboratively set up, that is led by a strong woman said, “in recognition of the talent of our people and called Tapiwa-Marobela Masunga, who was a tennis the potential of the cultural and creative industries to star in Botswana and she played for the national team. create jobs, my Government has initiated processes She is leading this committee and they are doing very to improve legislation and policy frameworks for the well. We believe that with what they will present to us sector. These include the review of the Cinematography as the two ministries, we will be able to develop sport Act, the development of the National Arts Council Act at schools and Botswana as a whole, so that we can see and the accession to the United Nations Educational, results. Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) 2005 The other thing Mr Speaker, we have already indicated Convention on the Promotion of the Diversity of in instances or in the past that it is inappropriate that Cultural Expressions. Those are the promises he made. at the moment with the infrastructure that we have in sport, with the talent we have locally and the 2012 HONOURABLE MEMBER: Close quote. success of the Zebras, Botswana has not shown interest in hosting Africa Cup of Nations. That is our goal. It is MR RAKGARE: Close quote. Those are the promises one of the things that as the President was giving his he made last year, that we are not mentioning Mr speech, he said them with a vision that it is one of our Speaker. That are not mentioned today, but they have goals. Our goal is to host this sporting event by 2027 happened, we now have the Arts Council in place. in this country, so that Batswana can be happy to see What we are doing at the moment as the ministry is to their team play and playing at home. We believe with have a board and secretariat, and the Arts Council can that, as a country we can be able to see our players have start operating. It was the promise by His Excellency that exposure, which is necessary so that they can be the President, which he made last year. We hear our recruited by other foreign outside teams and also so that colleagues saying, no, the President is full of empty sport is developed in Botswana. promises. They are choosing those that they know very well that they have been started but are not complete, At page 13 paragraph 33, the President talks about because they want to speak politically and get votes economic inclusion and empowerment. We have a from Batswana. We want to clarify things that what the number of them at our ministry Mr Speaker, which we Government has promised, it is going to achieve like it believe we are going to continue assisting with. We are

28 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

focusing a lot on unemployment. I can tell you today MR RAKGARE: No sir, I am not giving you any Mr Speaker, without hesitation that the programme second. There is no one who has ever said anything much that we have in our ministry, the Youth Development in one second. I have never seen it happen anywhere. Fund (YDF), has helped many young people. They have managed to change their lives and those of other people Mr Speaker, let us show accountability as Members of in Botswana. Parliament and talk about these issues and encourage our youth so that their lives may change. If the Since we were given the responsibility, we have been Government has created opportunities, as is the case, let going around the country checking how the businesses us not discourage the youth by saying, ‘no, you will not that are run by the youth are going. Mr Speaker I can get any help there. The BDP Government this…’ Let us inform you that this past weekend we were in Kasane. encourage the youth to register for these Government We visited some buildings that were built by a young programmes so that they would be able to develop person. The name of that youth is Lucky, and he has a themselves and develop their lives. sister. In the past three years, they applied for assistance from the YDF programme to enable them to build a This issue of empowerment Mr Speaker, maybe I campsite. They embarked on that project. Their belief should agree with what one Member of Parliament was that as time went on they would have a complete said yesterday who explained that it is important for a lodge, where tourists would lodge. The good thing is that review to be done so that the elderly who are not far within three years, Lucky and his sister are now running from retirement could pave a way for the offices so a lodge which has 24 rooms. They are making money. that the youth would be able to secure employment in They have employed more than 10 young people at their Government. I know that there is something called an lodge. This is what we are talking about when we talk early retirement package which is existing, which is one about changing people’s lives, the lives of youth. of the incentives that we have as Government; hence we should make it even more attractive so that people could It is not only Lucky. This morning I was in Jwaneng retire and make way for the youth; so that we could see where we were kick starting a programme of the youth being employed in large numbers. This will encouraging the youth who benefited from the YDF to assist in reducing the large number of people who are not pay back their loans. There is a young person there who employed, which we are seeing in Botswana. We would gave a testimony; he is called Leburu. Bakang Leburu also be able to absorb those who are on internship. Mr explained to us that he has partnered with Reuben Speaker, it is very disheartening when a young person Nshakashokwe in his business and they are selling knows that I only have two years of internship here and animal feeds and fertilisers. They started their business once they are over, they would not have any idea where through YDF. As we are talking, they have employed they are headed. 21 workers. They have five branches. Their business has spread. They said they are not only going to end As Government, we should continue trying to see how there, they are diversifying and venturing into transport these youth could be assisted. What is it that we could and logistics. This is what we mean when we talk about do to be able to absorb them in our ministries? So that empowerment. This is what we are talking about in the they would also be able to live with dignity, as we know State of the Nation Address (SONA). that everyone who is employed has dignity, they earn a salary and they are well respected. We would like These issues Mr Speaker, as Members of Parliament, to see the youth of this country living better lives. I we should be seen to be encouraging the youth to enrol have hope that with what has been happening and the for the existing Government programmes, instead of commitment of the leadership of the country, that will discouraging them and condemning saying, ‘it does not come to fruition. work.’ I would like to talk about the issue of land Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. It is a very painful topic. When we were growing up in Mogoditshane Mr Speaker, I recall very well that in MR RAKGARE: Please wait a moment Honourable 1993, although I was relatively young, the Mogoditshane Member. You want to disturb me. Please allow me to Sub-Land Board was established. If you go where I continue, you will have your chance. grew up in Nkoyaphiri, there were very few yards there, HONOURABLE MEMBER: One second. but it is a big piece of land. There are so many people

Hansard No 200 29 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

in Nkoyaphiri; close to 20 000. In 1993 only few people Mr Speaker, he should not derail me; I am talking about were there. Today Mr Speaker, if you want to see a Sub- the issue of land, that you would be giving someone Land Board which does not allocate land to people, dignity. It is very painful that we still have some people, Mogoditshane Sub-Land Board is number 1. In the past as it was mentioned yesterday that they have been five years we were talking about a waiting list of 140 waiting to be allocated land for 27 years. They would 000. We have not moved an inch, we are still right there. have applied for land in their youth, and as we speak, We still have people who applied for land in 1993, when they are old men and women. There are no plots at all. Mogoditshane Sub-Land Board was established. Even Therefore, this thing… to date they have not been allocated land. MR MOTAOSANE: On a point of elucidation. Thank Mr Speaker, here is a solution which we have to work you Mr Speaker and Honourable Minister. Honourable jointly in; we have to talk to Honourable Mzwinila Minister, on the issue of land and the period that it takes to pack this issue and then come back to Parliament; to be allocated, are you aware that we are running out we need to change the law which says we have to of land at Mogoditshane? When the Government is still give Batswana serviced land. Honourable Members looking for land, there are some people who take land which has not been allocated to them and this means this is not helping us. Mr Speaker, it has always been that the Government will not find any piece of land. the intension of Government to service land and then So the law that you are talking about, I want to stress allocate it to people. It is not happening because there that indeed it is important for us to set aside this issue are no resources; and there are many Government because people now take land that the Government has projects. There are not enough funds to service land and not yet allocated. Thank you sir. then allocate it to people. Let us decide as Parliament MR RAKGARE: Thank you Honourable Member. It is that we should erase the Clause that says we have to true, but if we can continue to say that we should leave service land first. In fact, Batswana are already living land as it is, waiting with the hope that we will find where there are no services; there are Batswana in money to implement developments and then allocate Ledumadumane in Mogoditshane, who stay where there plots to people, we are going to end up being a country is no water. Electricity was also not there, it has come with an ungovernable nation. Batswana are going to just recently finding them there. There are no roads, look for spaces where they can squatter in and that is not there is no sewerage or anything but people are glad proper because now we are going to be forced to follow they wake up from… them around in order to demolish their buildings, we are going to follow them around in order to stop them HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. from…since they would have taken the law into their MR RAKGARE: That is what I am saying Mr Speaker, own hands because they see abundant land all over. We that I believe we need to change the policy… are a big country, our people should not be suffering like this at this point in time. I believe and hope that the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker… Honourable Minister will help, he will present this issue here and we are going to support him so that Batswana MR SPEAKER: Listen first. I do not want any can be assisted, so that we can take the waiting list out interruptions which are irrelevant. Tell us what is wrong of the way and make Batswana happy. with the procedure, we are following. We will also be creating employment opportunities; MR RAMOGAPI: Procedure Honourable Mr Speaker, people who draw plans, architects, plumbers, Honourable Rakgare is the one in Government, so us… bricklayers, builders, electricians, painters, carpenters, MR SPEAKER: You see. Please take you seat. and young people who have studied interior design at Limkokwing will be able to find jobs because when you MR RAKGARE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. allocate a plot to a Motswana, he or she will consider I thought he was rising to apologise because he wants building a house so that he/she can wake up from his/ to mess our country up. He has written on Facebook her house every day. Mr Speaker, I am raising this issue that as the opposition they are apologising to this other with a broken heart because it is not nice not to have a country where some people died. He should be standing plot, the same thing applies to waking up from someone to apologise for uttering such statements. else’s house.

30 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Mr Speaker, maybe one should find time one day and “Contributing to the ongoing presidential State of the talk about issues that affect our constituency, such as Nation Address, Gaborone Central MP, Dumelang Sale- health issues. It is painful for a vast constituency like shando, ‘congratulated’ President Mogae for a hectic ours, a constituency with a population of over 57,000 tenure in office, cushioning Khama from all sorts of people to still have two small clinics; Mogoditshane misappropriations. “From his initial years, President clinic and Nkoyaphiri are too small. This population of Mogae committed monumental blunders. Despite such 57 000 people is being serviced by these two clinics. On blunders, he never lost confidence and continued with top of that, there are people from Kopong, Lentsweletau, vigour to throw this country into disarray.” It is Hon- Kumakwane and Gabane who go there to seek medical ourable Saleshando, criticising Mr Mogae and his gov- care. We do not have resources. Honourable Dikoloti ernance. In 2012 he was also quoted by The Mail and is a robust young person, he promised that in the near Guardian. future, he will go and assess this situation in order to see what he can do about it. Those are the issues Mr MR MOSWAANE: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, Speaker. I think the Honourable Minister is out of order because he is quoting Sunday Standard and saying that those are There are some issues which we have discussed with Honourable Salehando’s words. Where do we confirm different Ministers regarding our constituency. Since that those are Honourable Saleshando’s words because I am racing against time, I would like to address two he is quoting from a newspaper? He should withdraw points which have been raised. Issues which were that statement; those words should be expunged from maybe raised by the Honourable Leader Of Opposition the Hansard. He is saying that the statement that he is because when we discuss State of the Nation Address quoting is from Sunday Standard, so I would like him (SONA) like this, it is important for us not to let them to quote something like the Hansard, something that pass without being corrected because people might soon we can provide as evidence in this Honourable House. believe that they are true. At this point in time, he is quoting rumours which Parliament of Botswana cannot waste five minutes Firstly, Mr Speaker, let me point out that Leader of Op- of its time listening to because the statement is just position has never praised any President of Botswana hearsay information from the newspapers. Thank you who governed when he was in Parliament. Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Moswaane, MR RAKGARE: Even though it is not his right to I think you are wrong. He is quoting the paper, for all praise them, what I am trying to say is that we are used we know, the paper might have been mistaken. What to this, he always criticises leaders. The Honourable he is quoting cannot be held as the truth, as to what Member came to Parliament in 2004 and Mr Mogae Saleshando then said. It is the paper saying so. Are we was the then President. In 2007, Sunday Standard wrote together? Yes. an article in which they quoted Honourable Saleshan- LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR do’s words. I want to try and show that it is not a new SALESHANDO): Further point of order Mr Speaker. thing for Honourable Saleshando to critic the President I would like to confirm something with you before I Dr Masisi’s speech. Batswana should not expect that at comment on what I wanted to say here. When someone any day they will hear Leader of the Opposition praising makes a statement, he is entitled to his view, but when Masisi. That will never happen because he has never… he makes a statement that is not true and I have evidence HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction. here that I can bring forth to show that the statement is not true, am I allowed to rise on a point of procedure or MR RAKGARE: …agreed with Masisi on anything. order if I have evidence here? Like I am saying, he started in 2007. Sunday Standard wrote an article on the 18th of November Mr Speaker, if MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! I think so, what you do, you allow me to quote. first …(Inaudible)… with a question, as to whether what the Honourable Member is saying, is the Honourable MR SPEAKER: Please do. Member saying that is the truth? If he confirms that, MR RAKGARE: The Headline said, “Saleshando you say I have contrary evidence and it can be put to criticises Mogae for treating Khama with kid gloves.” that Member. As I say in this case, my understanding

Hansard No 200 31 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

is that the Minister is quoting a paper, I cannot take said on the 18th November 2007. Now, in 2012, The that quotation as being the truth of what Honourable Mail and Guardian, one of their Reporters wrote… Saleshando then said, because those two are different. If he was quoting the Hansard, which is the record of this (MR SALESHANDO): On a point of order Mr Speaker. Parliament, then that will be a different matter. I asked if it is allowed that if I have evidence that an individual is not telling the truth, I can produce it. I now HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr believe that you are moving far from what I know you Speaker. said which is not true.

MR SPEAKER: You are dragging us back again, did MR SPEAKER: My answer was yes. you not understand what I was saying? MR SALESHANDO: Yes sir. Now give me this chance. HONOURABLE MEMBER: My sincere apologies, He is saying the Batswana should not believe that at procedure Mr Speaker. any point in time Dumelang Saleshando can commend President Masisi. Yesterday when I spoke, I commended MR SPEAKER: Did you not understand what I said? him for his efforts of congratulating Batswana who are doing well like he did that I fully concur with him. That HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes sir, I have additional is something I encourage. On the 29th of October, I even information that I want to assist you with. wrote on Facebook commending, if I may just read briefly MR SPEAKER: You cannot assist me. in English; “if there is something that I admire about President Masisi, is the passion and zeal he exuberates HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... when he promotes any project. Many will recall how he HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am here to assist you energetically championed backyard gardens as the road Mr Speaker. out of poverty for Batswana. I do not think he still wants to be associated with the backyard gardens, given their MR SPEAKER: I am not debating. rate of collapse and failure. In the run up to elections, HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are Members of the it was the electric car, again promoted with zeal and House. confidence.” I commended the passion with which he sometimes engages in some things. MR SPEAKER: Yes, but you cannot help me because I am not debating. That is your fight there. If you got the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… point of procedure, by all means… MR SALESHANDO: It is therefore not true because HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure means that even right now I was commending him for the energy the House is out of order Mr Speaker, that I want to that he exudes when it comes to achieving Vision 2036 correct that. through the goats’ scheme. He totally believes in that. I might not agree that it is effective but I commend MR SPEAKER: Yah, that is why I am saying, if you got him for the energy that he displays when he wants and the point of procedure, by all means, do not say you are believes in something no matter how ineffective. helping me, I am not debating. Honourable Moswaane!

MR MOSWAANE: Mr Speaker, in the past we have MR RAKGARE: Mr Speaker, maybe we can revisit agreed that information from the newspapers cannot the Facebook post in question to follow up on its ending. be quoted in this Parliament. I do not know what your Again I do not need to go far. In the State of the Nation position is today. Thank you. Address (SONA) by the President, what he said that he was commending the President for congratulating MR SPEAKER: I do not know with whom you agreed; people, he said it yesterday that although he is it is not me. commending the President, he singled out one Professor Vasilis Koulolias. He said that he is a problem; no one HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… can just come and it is said that he is working for free. I MR RAKGARE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. am not sure if that was a commendation. Let me proceed That was what the Honourable Leader of the Opposition Mr Speaker.

32 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

In 2012; The Guardian quoted him saying that the former MR RAKGARE: That is the game of politics that President Ian Khama is fond of corruption and he has Batswana should know that those who were very brutal appointed his brother and questioned his appointment. on them, former President Ian Khama, right now they I want to quote what he said Mr Speaker, if you allow are even praising him for the Jerusalema dance which me... we saw him doing on Facebook. They are praising him that he even knows how to dance; they have changed. MR SPEAKER: Do, that is what I said. They used to criticise his dance moves but now they are MR RAKGARE: He explained that “Khama has praising him for the dance he did. appointed many members of his family, as well as In conclusion Mr Speaker, we must speak robustly when friends to senior positions in the Government and it comes to issues of corruption. I believe the time has state agencies, sometimes to the detriment of good come for us to employ stringent measures. We cannot governance. Tshekedi Khama is a poor performer and continue to live in a corruption infested country. In has not brought a single Motion to Parliament although the past, though nowadays it has abated, this country that was his role as a backbencher,” Saleshando said. was in chaos because of corruption. I believe we must Mr Speaker, what I am trying to show is that from strengthen and empower Directorate on Corruption and His Excellency Mogae, former President Khama and Economic Crime (DCEC) together with Directorate of currently His Excellency Masisi, we do not expect the Public Prosecutions (DPP) to ensure that the culprits Leader of the Opposition to say anything positive about end up in jail. Thank you Mr Speaker. His Excellency Masisi because that is how we know him. The last one I want to bring to your attention is HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… from Sunday Standard, dated 8th August 2014. He was addressing a star rally of one Botswana Congress Party MR MOSWAANE (FRANCISTOWN WEST): (BCP) hopeful by that time. Mr Speaker allow me to Thank you Mr Speaker. I want to appreciate the quote for the last time. He said, “Under President Ian President for addressing the nation and also commend Khama’s Government, corruption is acceptable. Those you for the wisdom to run this House. If you were not in the echelons of power are now doing it stubbornly here, I believe by now fists could have flown. The going for everyone to see.” I am just trying to showcase that keeps getting tougher and some people are ensuring this is nothing new, even any Motswana now watching that they do everything in their power to be defensive. television should not expect that he or she will ever hear Mr Speaker, the main issues in our country are centred Honourable Saleshando praising President regardless of on failure by the ruling party to run this Government. the good that he does. That is something that we need to look into critically. I am saying this looking at issues such as failure to Mr Speaker, let me conclude with issues of corruption. execute the National Development Plan (NDP) where I want to show… you even hear the Minister saying, Batswana should HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Mr remain hopeful after a project was carried forward for Speaker. 22 years while the budget is approved annually to have the project implemented. Batswana are even promised MR SPEAKER: You are running a risk; you know every SONA that the project will be implemented. Do some people. you think Batswana should wait for so many years?

MR RAKGARE: Yes sir. Honourable Mthimkhulu was I am surprised that the Honourable Minister gets to asking for clarification sir. boast about a young person’s lodge project in Kasane after giving young people 3 000 projects which have MR SPEAKER: You know them. collapsed; the Minister’s performance is embarrassing ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL us. He was in Francistown and Masalila built a AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC luxurious guest house and he comes and he boasts that ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU):… he injected P100,000 in it. Hey! Where he sleeps alone (Inaudible)…Khama and Saleshando in 2014, right now without Government officials lodging there. We want Khama is with Saleshando and he is praising him. How you to look into these things. If you are serious about come he is now good for Opposition when he was bad guest houses, next time you go on an official trip to before? Francistown, Cabinet should not be accommodated in

Hansard No 200 33 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

foreigners’ lodges but accommodate them in Batswana when we come to Parliament, half of the number of owned lodges. That is when we will admit that you are Members of Parliament are members of the Executive. serious not taking credit for people’s hard-work. We are We are dominated by the Executive. They are the ones not happy about these things Minister. Moreover, you who have a final say. They drag us like dogs, where a should not boast about any youth project while we are person wants to cross the river even though a dog is not still under State of Emergency (SoE) while you have willing to go. That is how they control us. They claim refused to release youth funds for the whole year. You to lead through democracy, to say ‘we won, you should are refusing with the youth economic recovery plan and be ashamed’. up until today which youth are you boasting about? HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… MR MOSWAANE: Is that right? If you consider MR MOSWAANE: The things that we are noticing these issues, you will find that BDP is fighting against about your Government of Presidential Powers, is public servants. They fire any worker who is against directorship, dictatorship and corruption. I am only Government proceedings, who tries to reason that noticing scary things. BDP is doing Batswana some injustice. Just consider how many health professionals, specialists were fired Let me go back to the beginning. Another issue that you without at least giving us an explanation. One of them boast of that I want today for religious leaders to know quit their job and later came back, you will wonder what is that you hate churches. For example, from 1966 up they gave them such that they ended up coming back? until today, you have allocated 21 church plots; seven for the favourite church while more than 500 churches HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… had to divide 20 church plots among themselves. You hate believers and only want them during elections… MR MOSWAANE: That is why we are saying you claim that you value workers while fighting against them HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… on the other hand, if you abuse them in this manner… How can you send people to study Masters and Degrees HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is the truth. in India and United Kingdom (UK) only for you to fire MR MOSWAANE: You will find someone kneeling them? It is not fair. Let us accept that Botswana workers to a point of being smaller than a tortoise. We are not are there to function as advisors. They also serve you supposed to tolerate nor allow these things. During as the ruling party. Right now you are ruling through hard time as we have been attacked by COVID-19, the political power, you are not using knowledge and skills Opposition urged us to make pastors essential as they acquired by these workers from other countries as well deal with many people reason being, they can help and from Botswana universities. us to fight against this pandemic. Unfortunately, the Corruption is coming out in the open, this is not allowed Government of Domkrag refused up to this day. To date, and we cannot allow this thing anymore. Anyway, they still refuse to allow pastors to pray for COVID-19 let me move on to address other painful issues. The to disappear. They believe they can successfully deal Directorate of Intelligence and Security (DIS) has now with everything as Ministers, that it is wrong to engage been turned to a gatekeeper of tenders in Botswana. If pastors. So people must know that Domkrag hates we have a tender worth billions and it is given to Qhan, believers, they only want them during elections. That you already know that if it is not given to Qhan it will is why we have to explain to people why we still have be given to Qhanqu. That is where DIS will chip in, halt COVID-19 in Botswana even though it is not there. it and claim that it is for security reasons. These things It was brought here intentionally. So these things are not good. So let us remove DIS from the tenders show how the Government of Botswana Democratic because we have a relevant department which deals Party (BDP) is failing. All Batswana know where the with corruption, it deals with these kind of issues. problems faced by this country arise from; they arise from the Constitution which gives the President the HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… power to become a director and a dictator. All these things are as a result of the Constitution of Botswana. If MR MOSWAANE: Hey you! It is not a secret that I I may explain these things: they are in such a way that am selling cars at Francistown. I can tell you that you the Executive, Parliament and Judiciary of Botswana; are a thief!

34 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… serving Batswana, it is not fair. Your Government is failing Batswana as we speak today. HONOURABLE MEMBER: This one will tell you off. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)…

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MOSWAANE: Let us communicate with each other accordingly. We have programmes like Integrated MR MOSWAANE: Let me address health related Support Programme for Arable Agriculture Development issues because Francistown constituents are watching (ISPAAD), Youth Development Fund (YDF), brigades, me to find out whether I will bring a solution or Ipelegeng and health and they are failing. Makes me not. Francistown accommodates 120 000 plus or wonder, what are you really good at in life? What are minus people. We have Nyangabgwe hospital which you good at? When you think about improving Arts and accommodates only 400 patients and is also catering for Culture, the Minister will start boasting about it. I am the entire North. As we speak, we have a higher mortality only ashamed because it is a youth, the one we really rate at Bokalaka than other Constituencies in Botswana. trusted who is boasting. He is boasting because he is Does it mean we have to allow the Government of abusing the youth simply because he has now become Domkrag to sentence people to death by denying them a Minister. He went to Francistown and promised them the right to proper medication? We have observed that solutions which are going to be used to deal with the tenders worth millions are awarded to relatives and challenges, up until today Francistown youth who are friends and none of them covers Francistown. As I am artists are suffering. They are expected to sing BDP talking to you today, Francistown clinics do not have songs, this is not okay. So I urge you to do away with specialised medical care, resources, equipment and these things and follow the procedure. If it was possible, ambulances. Our people are dying like flies. On the I would ask the BDP Government to step down, finish other hand, the BDP Government expect them to seek and klaar! You must give others a chance to reign. help from churches while they spend a lot of money. This thing should not be allowed this time. Batswana HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… must refrain from the mentality that even though you MR MOSWAANE: You are not supposed to let the abuse us or pray for us, you were sent from heaven. It is country collapse completely because you can see that not so, abusers are sent by Satan. We cannot assume that you are currently failing. Let us consider these things. someone who was sent from heaven… I know that some of these things are done so Batswana can hate us. If you consider Masama, it brings along HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. three consecutive pipes. We have just spent 900 million MR MOSWAANE: Where are you calling from, I am on one of them after that, we are going to proceed to choosing who to yield to? Other painful issues are found another one which is worth 1.8 billion. Do we really at tertiary institutions and brigades. It is such a shame pay attention to how we spend money since we are that after 55 years, the statistics of graduates who are experiencing shortage of funds? You have to closely unemployed have increased to 200 000. Surprisingly, it monitor these things. For example; one may wonder seems like Government has job opportunities. This is how much we spent on a pipe leading from Gaborone because people work as temporary employees for more to Kanye. I am very sorry, Mr Khato Civils; I am not than 10 to 15 years. These are embarrassing issues. You talking about you. You are a fine Motswana; I am simply will also find that tenders worth millions were awarded referring to the procedure used here. You won the tender, to appropriate or inappropriate people. We are aware you are a Motswana and have that right. I support you of these things, so stop corruption so we will be able to be in the tender, I am only concerned about a deep to create employment. Currently, it is hard to find a secret this side. corruption free tender which is run under BDP. We are We have to be very serious when dealing with these not supposed to boast about issues that we have more issues. Francistown has showed us that indeed there is Members of Parliament than members of Opposition in jealousy in Botswana. I am saying this because we have Parliament, let us pursue what is truthful. If at all you are a chunk of land which can produce 40 000 residential going to boast about such things, I encourage Batswana plots. The Ministers mentioned that they cannot find to hate you because you do not value this country. You land so, come to Francistown, we will give you land are only interested in tenders but do not care about that can produce 40 000 plots. We have water, electricity

Hansard No 200 35 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

and people who are eagerly waiting for those plots who Let us get into another one of Internship Programme are well over 100 000. in which Government is intending to use cheap labour, the Government does not want to pay these youths, they MR MOTAOSANE: Point of elucidation. Thank you are graduates, they work and they are doing these jobs, Honourable Moswaane who I like very much. As you they become graduates up until they are told, go home are sitting down now, you were mentioning things that and rest so that another one can come, but if we can are in Francistown; electricity, water and so on, which say Member of Parliament go and rest for two years so Government facilitated those things? that someone can take your place, it can create chaos all HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... over the country. Other people are told to just continue resting, being told that they are taking turns. Let us look MR MOSWAANE: Do not try to compare Gaone’s at these things that as Batswana voted for us because father to the current Government, do not try it. Those they trust us, are we doing the right thing for them. men who have ruled us, we will never forget them in our lives with their development programmes, so we Our employees at Botswana Police cannot work properly are talking of today my brother, do not come here and by being temporary for more than 15 years. Our youth in tell me about Domkrag (Botswana Democratic Party); Botswana who are on the Internship Programme cannot Domkrag of today is finished... also be temporary for the rest of their lives. So this thing is mocking and abusing Botswana. It is a failure by BDP HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... Government to show a Motswana what the right life is. When looking at all these things, Old Age Pension MR SALESHANDO: Further elucidation. When (OAP), the way it is, that is just mocking the elderly who you talk about Domkrag of today, let me read for you built this country, I do not know if their sin is coming something that was written in the Gazette newspaper, it here first and you coming later and finding all the riches. says, ‘BCP Youth League President Tumiso Chillyboy We have an idea at the moment to be sympathetic with Rakgare, they have just dragged newly elected MP our elderly people and tell them that between P800 and Bogolo Kenewendo into her political baptism of fire P1, 500 is something one can live with at the moment. as he says her decision to join the abusive Botswana At the moment, grocery is almost P1, 000 but you are Democratic Party (BDP) shows that she is not as saying an elderly person should live with P500.00. These intelligent as she is said to be. Speaking during a are some of the things you should raise with the BDP press briefing on Monday, Rakgare said Kenewendo’s and check whether they call these things ability or what, choice of party was suspect considering how the youth and when they are attending to them? It is really evident were oppressed under the BDP regime. Kenewendo’s that the way it is, things are gradually getting worse like intelligence is talked about too much, and I doubt she a well that is being buried by sand and there is no one to is that intelligent to be taking decisions like the one she dig that sand out. Batswana will have to look at the skies recently took by agreeing to serve the abusive BDP.’ and stop reading the book of Romans 13 which says, ‘it You are telling the truth, Domkrag of today that was is okay to respect leaders even if they speak, it is okay seen by Chillyboy is not the same as the old one. to respect leaders if they do this and that.’ No the law says if you are a Bishop and you are corrupt, we take HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... you out of the congregation. If you are a President and MR MOSWAANE: Thank you Mr Leader of the you are corrupt, we take you out of power; if you are a Opposition (LOO). Some overwhelming issues need party and you are corrupt, we take you out of power and to be looked at Mr Speaker. Take an organisation like we replace you with others so that they can try. At the Botswana Police which its employees work effectively moment you are boasting with corruption Honourable and devotionally, and someone can be a Special Members, and we are saying these things are not right Constable for 15 years, writing cases, and people are Mr Speaker. prosecuted yet when they are supposed to be hired, they Soldiers of this country have an issue which does not are told to run first to see how fit they are; that is said need someone who is self-entitled. Those men have by the BDP. The one who is writing cases and people worked for this country from where it began. We boast are prosecuted, they are doing the job they were hired about them giving us a salute and when they are wearing to do every day. Abuse of employees in Botswana is not the uniform that indicate that they are the military, but a good thing.

36 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

when it comes to their salaries we want to act like we living under overwhelming conditions, they are living do not know what those men need. I challenge your on leftovers and they are living always wondering why Government today, and I can challenge you to go and God cannot take them, whereas the BDP Government read the Hansard because the salaries of the Botswana is shining about them, yet they offer no assistance to Defence Force were amended by Dr Khama in 2017. Mr them. Some people with disabilities walk as if they are Shaw Kgathi read a statement here, when Pius Mokgware reptiles in their homes, and they are not receiving any came up with the Motion that stated the Conditions of assistance, it is said Jehovah God is to blame, while Service for the soldiers. I came up with the Motion that you are not blamed when you ride the likes of Benz and stated that there should be an Ombudsman of the force Rolls Royce and why should we allow that thing? These to protect them. We were begged, we were requested things are happening because corruption is the only to step back because Cabinet has already finished thing that is reigning in our country. Let us stop those as Honourable Kgotla Autlwetse said that they have kind of things. These issues need us to be aware of our finished. So if Khama had finished at that time, then the governance. other took over and scored, what is the problem? Honourable Minister Rakgare, I want you to explain to HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... us what you are saying about the youth. This gentleman is a failure, number 1; and Honourable Masisi should MR MOSWAANE: So some things as you keep forcing relieve him of his powers, he should remove him from them into yourselves, you should know that some people office completely. If possible, he should suspend him have done them. You are not at that hype by your own, even from the party. you are there because others have put you there. So you should not just be forgetful and boast... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. MR MOSWAANE: He is causing serious disrepute into this Government, although the Government is already in HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... trouble, he is making the situation worse. So people like him, who are all about adornment like they are going to MR MOSWAANE: No, this person is too young, if I let a beauty pageant, we do not need them here. We want him off the hook, you know that he swears right? hard workers who think about the lives of Batswana. So HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... let us stand up against these issues.

MR MOSWAANE: Some of the things we have to look Honourable Members, let us get to mophane worms. It at Mr Speaker, Botswana is no longer after the service is overwhelming and we are silent even though we know standards of helping people of Botswana, no things are that the mophane worms will soon be available. There just done haphazardly. This should come to an end. is no Honourable Minister who wants to tell us what We have employed professionals who can give us the he is saying regarding mophane worms. Honourable service, let the politicians stand aside and do their job, Members, mophane worms generate income of up to and the civil servants do theirs. There is interference in P2 billion if harvested properly, and if we want to help the civil service by the BDP and that is why Botswana people, we could have already made a programme by is stagnant, politicians wrongfully acquire positions; now that they should go and harvest mopane worms, even the position of Permanent Secretary (PS). Hey! PS with a specific system in place, they should not meet and is a Permanent Secretary, and you are a Minister, and exceed 50 in numbers, and they should be given hectares he is the Accounting Officer, so you want Accounting that they can work within, keeping a social distance and Officer to answer when a crime has been committed, but be monitored by whosoever would be monitoring them, when there are celebrations you say you are the one who not denying them an opportunity to harvest mophane answers, it is not allowed. Let us be fair to these people, worms completely…(Inaudible)…and would be seen they have worked for this country. Let us try to make around, and then eventually it would go back to God sure these things improve. whereas we are eating and drinking the money we are earning from being Members of Parliament, getting The other issue that is overwhelming LOO (Leader of satiated. This does not show that we are merciful to the Opposition) is promising people with disabilities Batswana. These are some of the issues I would like to every year that their lives will be improved, they are point out to Batswana that bad things that I was part of

Hansard No 200 37 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

were done. I know I was elected, but not in that manner. statistics, the 90 per cent are left to fend for themselves and we are told that the Government is achieving a lot. Honourable Members, let us try to ensure that at the Hey, this is a disgrace. moment, the Government of Botswana which is led by the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) resigns. They So we are asking for seriousness so that in Gerald are failing, completely failing! there should be a third primary school so that the lives of those people could progress better. We are going HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… to allocate more than 3 000 plots, and the number of MR MOSWAANE: I would agree with them if I was people is already surpassing the quota that can be with them. So you know there is a lot of corruption enrolled by schools; so there is poor planning. You are there, I do not support corrupt people… going to come running helter skelter when the numbers will now be bursting at the seams. Look into these issues HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… and complete them.

MR MOSWAANE: Yes! Try again so that you would The issue that I would like to conclude with Mr Speaker, hear what I would say. it seems the BDP Government does not understand the situation that we are going through. We have built a HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… prestigious institution called Francistown College of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Technical and Vocational Education (FCTVE) which enrols 1 500 students, but for the past five or 10 years, MR MOSWAANE: Mr Speaker, we are facing serious it has only been admitting 500, sometimes when it is challenges in the education sector and these need to worse it enrols about 300 or so. Then the Minister would be seriously addressed by men and women. At the say, “We are achieving a lot, we are really trying our moment, I would like Batswana to remove the BDP level best.” (Domkrag) from the equation because it will continue failing and failing for ever. Batswana have to decide that I have already decided that since Ministers refuse to when it comes to education, we have tried. You know answer our questions, when they get to Francistown I am heartbroken by this retired lady called Pelonomi no one should ululate. What for? They should not be Venson, having brought a programme called Education applauded because we are celebrating people whom and Training Sector Strategic Plan (ETSSP), which the when they stand up they make just fun of us, laughing Ministers are saying it is being implemented yet it does at us whilst driving in black luxury cars yet having done not have a budget. Hey! The ETSSP is a huge project that nothing for us. They just enjoy our ululations when we can do wonders. Now since it was brought by a member are ‘thanking’ God that he has given us leaders who of the BDP from another faction, it is going to suffer and do not care about us. These issues have to be looked eventually disappear and then a new programme would into, and we should ask ourselves if we would be able be brought about. Just respect the fact that at that time to deal with such people. So this situation on its own Mr Dr Venson was given a huge responsibility of taking Speaker requires Batswana to arise for themselves and the country out of the challenges it was facing and she not be derailed by anyone nor be intimidated by anyone. came up with a programme, together with robust public The areas of Kgalagadi, Ngami, Chobe, Okavango, service employees showing us how we could move North East, Tswapong, Borolong, Ngwaketse, Central forward. and others respectively, like Kweneng, Bobirwa, Selebi Hey! When it comes to the issue of pre-schools, the Phikwe and Francistown have to be quizzed about why Government of the day is failing. Let me give you a they voted for the BDP. The poverty in these areas is small example. Francistown; at Monarch School where disheartening and the ruling party aggravates it year there are 700 students, those under pre-school are always after year by neglecting the National Development Plan 30 every year, where do the rest go? In Phase 6 there are (NDP). They deviate from saying “The Government 2 000 people, and the students who are admitted there says…” and shift to “The President says…” and this are almost 500, yet only 30 are enrolled and this means is where we are going wrong. Stop this habit of saying if you count the number of schools in Francistown it “The President says…” so what is the Government means almost 7 per cent when it comes to numbers is saying? The NDP talks about this; the President comes the only one which is taken; according to the Minster’s and talks about that.

38 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Allow us to guide you. Hey! We are misusing MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Procedure. Thank Government funds. How can you use P1 million to you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, is it procedural for the go and deliver P100, 000.00 worth billy goats, there Member of Parliament (MP) to keep referring to fellow is something wrong. There is another alternative route MPs as thieves? Is it in order sir? where you could engage public service employees and trust them if at all they are under you; you can ask MR SPEAKER: I do not know what they are fighting them to go and distribute those billy goats. I think the about. President must stop this programme of distributing billy HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… goats himself, with due respect, we are losing a lot of money. Having him move around with his staff costs MR MOSWAANE: If they can stop corruption and Government millions. I know he has a dream, but the improve Nyangabgwe Hospital, create jobs and stop the dream is partnering with the Saudi Arabians who want abuse of workers, I will stop saying that. They are getting to buy the Francistown Botswana Meat Commission richer and richer, how? How do you get rich when you (BMC). Do you think there is honesty in there, when are working for Government? Right now you already we have been looking for it for years without having have more than 20 farms before you even become access to it… ministers. This is unfair for Batswana and you think we should allow you to do all these things. Hey! The reason HONOURABLE MEMBER: The other one has given why this country is so poor it was impoverished… land to the Somalians. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. MR MOSWAANE: …good manners. Thank you so MR MOSWAANE: Let me tell you about these much. Somalians, they are hard workers. They are not thieves like you... HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane, you will MR MOSWAANE: They are hard workers. They are come and continue from where you were saying ‘this not thieves like you. Your company collapsed because country.’ Let us take the COVID-19 health break for 20 you wanted to steal Government tenders through gases. minutes. Stop it! PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 4:04 P.M. FOR HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… APPROXIMATELY 20 MINUTES HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 4:34 P.M.

MR MOSWAANE: I know that you are going to make “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” me suffer, but we are going to meet in court because you are denying them permits because I am involved. Do MR SPEAKER (MR PULE): Pray be seated. When you think I am afraid of you? I am trusting in God and I we broke for a health break, Honourable Moswaane was am not afraid of you. I am trusting in God! on the floor and was left with 4 minutes 9 seconds. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR MOSWAANE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me focus on the issue of Gender-Based Violence (GBV). HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… The Minister responsible for Gender Economic MR MOSWAANE: Let me tell you, your President Empowerment Scheme should hurry up because it has closed my garages about twice arresting the Somalians been more than five years since this programme was for 30 days without having any charge, just out of stopped and there is no sign of caring for the lives of jealousy… women. I take it that the person who is leading this ministry is a woman hence she knows the challenges HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. that comes with being a woman. Since I am fond of her, MR MOSWAANE: You want me to tell you all these I would quickly like to advise her that she cannot try things. I am not afraid of you, I am only afraid of God, to combat Gender-Based Violence (GBV) when she is but I will respect you as leaders. Thank you. actually refusing to give women money to empower

Hansard No 200 39 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

themselves because they suffer emotional and financial MR MOSWAANE: Honourable Members, failure to abuse at their homes. The key thing is to empower them fight corruption is one of the issues that are upsetting economically and that will lead us to other things. The Batswana. They make it hard for Batswana to find jobs, other programme which assisted women... good opportunities and they make it hard for public servants to prosper. We fool them with 10, 6, 3 percent HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. increments which were also proposed by Dr Khama MR MOSWAANE …is Poverty Eradication. Poverty back in 2015/2016. Thank you. We are saying that we Eradication has been discarded because it was initiated should keep an eye on how these things are going. I am by Dr Khama, the Former President. looking for the National Housing Appeal, hey! How can you hate someone who has built 850 houses as a HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. President and then conceal his efforts? This is not fair. Even you sponsors, I am calling upon you to wake up and MR MOSWAANE: I am sorry my dear sister, I am sponsor people who need accommodation in Botswana. left with two minutes. Poverty Eradication has been Do not say that you are sponsoring Presidents, sponsor thrown away even though it assisted women and the Members of Parliament who want to build houses for less privileged people, its purpose was easily attainable people because you want to be loved and recognised by but just because it was introduced by Dr Khama, it has leaders. been pushed aside. It is said that it is still ongoing but we do not see it even though we are the ones who are Citizen Economic Empowerment; I, Honourable supposed to see it. It should not only be word of mouth Moswaane believe that Citizen Economic Empowerment while we do not see it because all along it has always only applies when a Motswana has employed a been noticeable. Let us keep an eye on these issues. foreigner. If we are still employed by foreigners, there is no citizen economic empowerment. Citizen economic Destitution Programme is also in trouble, it has lost its empowerment is when Batswana are holding majority value and it is not going to go on because nowadays shareholders in their companies. Let us implement people receive food hampers worth P200 even though this thing without fear, let us give Batswana economic these food hampers used to costs around P600. There empowerment. That is my plea, let us go and develop is no way we cannot have a high trend of GBV when Francistown city because it is the second capital city women and children are still poor. Let us focus on these of this country. It also has the potential to stimulate issues and stop hating Dr Khama, we should focus the economy. It can help you, so let us go and develop on what Motswana needs. I believe that if you can Francistown. Do not hate us representatives because inherit this brilliant programme, God will bless you, we have been sent by our constituents. When you hate but when you discard it only because it was introduced us, you are also hating on people who sent us here. Let by someone, even if it is brilliant, this country cannot us accept that some will perform better than others on prosper Honourable Members. some things and that we will still work together, not Honourable Members, other issues which are a concern sabotaging others and also accept that opposition is at schools; failure to provide textbooks for students there for a purpose. Members of Opposition, let us agree is a very serious crime which is done by Botswana that we are going to take over governance in 2024. Say Democratic Party (BDP). Hey! As young people have amen! started their lives, they have got nothing to read and use HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Amen! at school and they are now venturing into films. When somebody from opposition tries to donate books at MR MOSWAANE: Thank you. schools so that students can be able to go to libraries to learn, they are stopped from carrying on with that HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… initiative. Education is an empowerment that can sustain ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL people but here you want to tame people so that they die GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT poor. Allow Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) (MR AUTLWETSE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank and its leaders to donate books. You will donate yours you for giving me an opportunity to comment on just as you are now donating bucks. It is fine! the State of the nation address as presented by His HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… Excellency the President. Mr Speaker, this is a progress

40 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

report and every person who has been sent here has challenges as they would be starting to work as junior the responsibility to come and give a report on what officers. They are then required to build homes; we all he or she has achieved, what he or she is still lagging know that most homes are headed by women so it can behind on as well as what he or she did not manage to either be a single woman or a man who is in a union achieve. Mr Speaker, one thing that I appreciated about with a woman. That is when they can start to build their this address is that the President did not say that he home as well as to raise their children, taking them to achieved all his targets or that he will not manage to school. At the age of 50, maybe their first born would achieve his targets. He simply said that he is still on a still be 12 years with younger siblings. What will we be mission to fulfill his obligation. So when I look at this trying to do by telling them to retire at the age of 50? speech, it corresponds with the Botswana Democratic Will we not be forcing things? Party (BDP) manifesto, the manifesto that took us to the 2019 general elections. It was linked to Vision 2036, MR MOSWAANE: Procedure. Mr Speaker, you the speech that he made in November 2019 during his should look at it this way, misleading this House with swearing in, Mid-Term Review (MTR) and the National the information that says that Leader of the Opposition Transformation Strategy and Economic Recovery said that people should be given 50 years… Transformation Plan (ERTP) which was drafted after the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane… outbreak of the pandemic that we are currently dealing with. Furthermore, he addressed most of the points MR MOSWAANE: …and then they take over… which were raised by the Honourable Members. He talked about creating jobs for Batswana, more especially MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane! the youth. There are different ways to create jobs and MR MOSWAANE: …package with programmes, what yesterday, I heard Leader of the Opposition (LOO) could be the problem? Why can it not be explained? Honourable Saleshando saying that UDC believes that jobs can be created by reducing retirement age to 50 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, if you ever do years so as to create jobs for the youth. Mr Speaker, I that again, I will humble you. do not support that. Although we know that we have to MR AUTLWETSE: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the do everything in our power to create jobs, I believe that President has pointed out that what he will focus on we will be taking a wrong route because when someone which is also available in the speech that we are debating reaches 50 years, that does not mean that he or she has is that, in the short period he has been there…he is not worked for 50 years. talking about matters of the past when he was still Vice MR MOSWAANE: Point of order. Maybe I should ask President and when he was still in office with some the Honourable Minister to conclude, otherwise he will people in the BDP Government, he is rather talking mislead the nation. The Leader of the Opposition said about what he managed to achieve upon his ascendency. that when they reach 50 years, they can... That is what he is talking about. He shows fully that he has managed to make some achievements. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane, there is no On Youth Development Fund (YDF), he has stated how point of order. many job opportunity it has created. On another youth MR MOSWAANE: I want to conclude. programme, he has also showed us the number of jobs it created. Those are the things that we know, we cannot MR SPEAKER: No. Honourable Autlwetse. dispute that we have not seen them.

MR AUTLWETSE: He is misleading this House The President has addressed a number of issues of which because when someone reaches 50 years, that does one of them is social protection. Those are the things not mean that he has 50 years in service. For the first that we know. Currently, Cabinet has approved social five years, he or she would be a child, still playing protection framework. It is a programme that came up at home without any responsibilities. The following at a time when President Masisi who is leading this seven years are for primary education, five years for Government directed that all programmes that are strewn secondary education which will then be followed by all over to come under one basket. That is, we should not tertiary education; four, five years at school. When they have Poverty Eradication here and another programme start working at the age of 27 or 28, they already have there. He advocated for them to come under one basket

Hansard No 200 41 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

because when they are strewn all over, some of their that can be held for consultation because you cannot results will go unnoticed. He had them come under one consult 50 people that, we wish to elevate your council ministry, one basket, so that they will be managed well to a district. The question is, how do you select these and avoid wastage because right now there is double- people because a Kgotla is not the same as a political dipping. We have some individuals maybe being funded party where only delegates can be invited? This one by Poverty Eradication in one area, while benefitting calls for morafe at Kgotla. That is another challenge. also from the Ministry of Agricultural Development Now the belief from both sides of the aisle is that, this and Food Security and also from the Ministry of Local is possible, what the hold-up is and that there should be Government and Rural Development. You find that we a time frame. That is where the challenge is Honourable have our eggs in one basket because there is no proper Members. Everyone wants that, it is an initiative that is administration. It is one of the challenges that President already there. Masisi saw it fit to have them abolished in an instant. It has been achieved, Cabinet already approved that. We must empower our local authorities so that they do not depend solely on Government but be able to generate He spoke about empowering local authorities that their revenue by which they can support themselves. at the moment our local authorities are not stable as They should not be run by revenue support grant like evidenced by what was said by Honourable Members Honourable Member for Tonota said yesterday that on decentralisation. Since I am at the Ministry of Local we need to increase revenue support grant. Increasing Government and Local Development, it is already out revenue support grant means that councils by themselves there under the leadership of President Masisi. Some do not have revenue base and are depending on funds councils should also be reviewed to check if they cannot from Central Government, which is wrong. They become fully-fledged districts. We have done this with should come up with initiatives that can develop their United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) districts together with their Honourable Members and and we are done since Honourable Moswaane said, Councillors of those areas. Councils should divide land “Honourable Autlwetse, let us complete it.” I am saying into smaller administrative entities because like I said, this unswervingly that the work is complete, what the law allows districts to have sub-districts as it is the remains is to present it before Cabinet. From Cabinet case at the moment. There is no hindrance. The only it will come to this Parliament for assessment. Let me stumbling block can be the unavailability of funds. It is explain that we have finished…earlier when I answered not a question of who is liked and who is not. Our wish this question I said, one of the things that might prove is to get there. to be a challenge is the availability or unavailability of funds to promote these sub-districts and even create Bogosi; it seems the institution of Bogosi was left others which are not there at the same time. This behind. What the Government of BDP under the requires huge sums of money because right now we are leadership of President Masisi did is to make a decision talking about subs. There are other building projects and that they need to be capacitated. Their workplace must it is clear that the required budget will be huge because be impeccable and they should have the same staff as when you upgrade a sub to a district, it is not just a that in land board, district administration, and other matter of buildings only, even the staff that is there their departments so that their meetings can be the same as positions change. Senior Assistant Council Secretary others. We are already done with those logistics. Morafe becomes Council Secretary and have deputies. All is educated but if the prosecutor and the arbitrator such heads of departments there have to have their positions as Kgosi has come to listen to a case which comprises changed countrywide. It is an insurmountable work of lawyers, engineers, will he manage? Will he not that has to be done thoroughly to avoid Motions which feel any self-doubt the moment they come in as to will query the differences in sub-districts and ideas of whether he will manage to listen to their case? He will favouritism. They should be done in a similar manner start having doubts about himself but sometimes not where Batswana feel that they are treated the same because they look down on him but because he is not because all Batswana have equal privileges. confident because if a person is not empowered, he does not make informed decisions. Even the condition The consultation will have to reach all constituencies of their work places like I said that Magosi just like and Dikgotla. At the moment like I mentioned earlier other departments, they have shortage of resources. that COVID-19 permitting, there is no Kgotla meeting Fortunately, Government has the intention to ensure that

42 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Dikgosi’s work place, their conditions of service have elders and young people do not believe us when we say to be improved. Everything that has to do with them; Government does not have money, but even at home, their paying structures has to be assessed to find if they parents borrow money from somewhere whenever they are in line with their colleagues, those who live near are financially challenged. them. Let those workers also enjoy resources like Wi-Fi just like others who work in Government Departments. From the funds we secured from World Bank Mr These are things which we are considering. Moreover, Speaker, we had some funds which we reserved for if we are to engage this decentralisation in rural areas, Serule Cluster, we also went there and held some how is it going to be implemented? Is it not going to meetings. Serule Cluster covers Damchujenaa, result in situations where people compete for positions, Gojwane, Serule, Topisi and Moreomabele villages. where others feel that some people are going to take These are some of the villages which were going to their positions? Who is supposed to be the coordinator? get water through World Bank funds but as we speak, I If the District Development Committee (DDC) chips do not know where that idea disappeared to. No one is in, say maybe an employee from Agriculture has an talking about it while other villages are being covered. assignment then the following day their Director I am not jealous but I am not happy because if you had transfer them without the Council Secretary and District promised people something, if you somehow changed Commissioner’s knowledge. These are some of the your plans, it is necessary to inform people that, “do not things which we have to map how we are going to deal expect to get that but this.” Unfortunately, you have not with so that we run a Government where everyone is yet done that. In other words, many people are watching aware of their roles, without doing things haphazardly. and wondering, “were they lying to us or they are still going to do something?” I will move on to the issue of Gender Based Violence (GBV). We once talked about this issue in Parliament Mr Speaker, we know that planning is one thing and and the Government also increased the sentences for implementation is another. So, sometimes we promise people who commit this offence. Mr Speaker, I am people things which our funds are not sufficient enough reluctant. I believe even though those sentences are to cover. As such, we cannot compare ourselves with high, we somehow left some loopholes and I believe we other countries because we are poor. Right now, we are have to increase them. Women and girls are suffering challenged by a pandemic which does not allow us to tell in Botswana. We have more cases of murder. They are people that, “stop the state of emergency since people killed by some men who claim to love them. are losing their jobs as businesses are collapsing.” What is the important thing to do here; is it to protect the lives Botswana is said to be the second highest in Southern of people or their businesses? What are we supposed to Africa as far as rape cases are concerned, and that is prioritise here? So, the Government decided to protect very true. In some cases, you will find that one person the lives of people. Along the way, we spoke anyhow raped about five women or killed about five people. and ended up deceiving the nation in terms of who is This is also because we grant them bail so they stay restricting them from moving as they please; is it the outside prison. So, this is why we have to cancel bail pandemic or someone? I do not believe there is someone from our sentences; anyone who committed rape or who can decide to close peoples’ businesses down murder or defilement, we must never let this person to even though Government is benefiting from them. Is it have contact with other people. In other words, they do possible for the Government to close schools without not have contractual capacity. We have to deny these any reason? kind of people bail. They have to stay in prison because I was delighted to hear one Minister saying that because they know that they might be sentenced to death hence, of the decision that we made, we were able to perform they choose to satisfy themselves before then. They bear better than other countries that have better economies in mind that they have killed or raped many people. In than Botswana. Even though death is unpleasant, other words, these are people who have nothing to lose. Botswana has a lower mortality rate compared to other So let us deny them bail so that women and girls may countries. God was merciful and protected us because gain some respect and honour as they move around. during the outbreak, no Motswana died as a result of I am also reluctant about the issue of water. We secured hunger. The Government did not have money but through a loan from World Bank as an indication that indeed the donations that we got from compassionate people, we are running short in terms of funds. Many people; including Batswana some of whom are present here,

Hansard No 200 43 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

they realised that Botswana is facing a challenging time, money is there, whereas we are the ones who approved the government also decided to reserve something so we the budget, where are we expecting them to get money? assist these people. Yes, we ran short of food baskets in We are not supposed to look at the Government in a bad some areas and that is bound to happen if the economy way and blame them. is challenged. The truth of the matter is, the Government tried every means possible. I liked the idea where in MR MOSWAANE: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I schools, Government came with a plan to ensure that think the Honourable Minister is out of order because our money does not go outside. We managed to fetch he is stating that refusing to use the budget where you our local artisans to prepare our toilets, classrooms and will find that about P12 billion is returned annually to teachers houses. All these jobs were divided amongst Government coffers, it seems like they view it as not Batswana so every Motswana can partake. Even though refusal of the Government to implement programmes. I we were running short in terms of funds, the amount of think he must correct this thing. Thank you. work done during that time is more than any job done MR AUTLWETSE: I do not know what has gotten ever since I worked at the Councils. Additionally, we into my brother today. I have to ask him in private. I have never done that ever since I became a Member of do not have any proof of P12 billion that was returned Parliament in a period of five years. Surprisingly, we anywhere. In the councils that Honourable Molale, were able to do that in a period of two months, many Honourable Modukanele and I have been leading, there schools opened because even if it was not enough on is no council among those that its money have been other things, but the little that was done was satisfactory. returned. If anything, it ran short and we even went Those are great efforts the Government has done and we are doing this when we are having a virus here, and to the Ministry of Finance to tell them that we have a there was a drought. problem at councils. I do not know of the money that was returned, the billions that Honourable Member is In our budget, there is no year that when Parliament talking about today. I am requesting that the Honourable approved a budget, there was money that was set aside Member should not be saying this because my brother for natural disasters, that money is not there. When even knows that he is not telling the truth. natural disasters occur, that means that the money that was set aside for developments is now used for that. We In a situation like this, we are not supposed to come cannot set money aside and say no, this is for natural up with untrue stories, that may mislead Batswana to disasters while other Government projects are on halt. say, some money was returned. Those are news on the When we have a natural disaster we have to take that street my brother, let us refrain from them and focus on money, and at least developments can be on halt for the facts, so that when we advocate for the nation, we a while because there is no use in creating luxurious developments which in the end, its owners will be killed are advocating for them based on facts. We should not by COVID, who is going to benefit from them? That is discredit others by not having facts and telling lies. the situation we are in, and I would like Batswana to HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... understand that at the moment, there is no one who is refusing to do anything for them. At the moment, there MR AUTLWETSE: What is Kodibeleng saying? is no Government which is failing, we are all struggling. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… If you see that the country has gone to borrow money which they are going to pay with interest, it shows that MR AUTLWETSE: Now you hear that my bother here there is money, because the budget of the Government is also saying unfounded things here. He is saying I took of Botswana is not a secret, it is done publicly, it comes money for Kodibeleng clinic, where did I take it? Where to this Parliament and then we approve. All of us can see was it placed and by whom? Now you can hear that they the projections that with the sale of diamonds, tourism are telling tales. So now he is behaving like a clown, but and other taxes, this is what we are going to get and he is someone I respect a lot. I do not know what has from this amount, this is how we are going to divide it, gotten into him today. He is someone I respect a lot, him with all of here and seeing that. and Honourable Moswaane. Today I do not know what kind of virus infected them. So if some day, we confuse ourselves and look at someone like they are refusing with money when HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)...

44 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR AUTLWETSE: Now you hear him, yes, I am used are doing Honourable Molale, Honourable Minister of to that. So Mr Speaker, let me say this, jokes, figures Trade Honourable Serame, and Honourable Modukanele of speech, all the games, let us not include them in that is what we are handling. So these things are the ones trying to trick the nation. Let us do those things at rallies that were promised in the Manifesto of the BDP that we because that is where unfounded things are done. When are simplifying, making businesses by Batswana, so that we are here, we should know that we are talking about they hire other Batswana. They should hire themselves peoples’ lives. We should not play with peoples’ lives, and even hire others. I like this idea, let it not only be we should be determined about what we are doing for education that ends with the youth. Even the graduates Batswana, and tell them the truth at all times, that this that are not working right now, let us encourage them as is the situation, this is possible and this is not possible. their Members of Parliament to form groups.

Honourable, my younger brother whom I like very There is no country that can be able to hire all its people. much, Leader of the Opposition, yesterday he was Setswana says, “goora motho go thebephatshwa,” saying the BDP could be doing construction to create meaning that a person feels comfortable at their home. jobs for Batswana. Who stopped it? Who stopped it This white people that we have here in our country, as we are speaking now? Buildings are continuing to and the black people like us, those we drink with here be built with Public Private Partnerships (PPP) he is at home, it is not like they do not like their countries, talking about. If possible and we find someone, partner they can see that where they are from is troubled. They with them, there is nowhere the BDP Government has written that, I do not want to find anyone, and that is feel that it is better here, like we know that all private what the Presidents who have been in power have been English medium schools are owned by foreigners, and trying to do by attracting investors who can partner at the moment we have teachers who are unemployed. with Batswana. At the moment, the BDP Government, Let us encourage them, they are our people. Cabinet has taken the decision that whoever comes Engineers like Lesaso, they are the ones who could here to do business, Batswana should have a 60 per be grouping others so that they are the ones who are cent share. It is a decision that has been made because forming companies and eliminate foreigners. So he is those are the things that the BDP Government promised here, he is saying ‘Autlwetse has taken the funds for the Batswana that it is going to try to do these, in order to clinic.’ When those in Mokgenene are listening to him, improve lives. joking as he is doing, would they think that is a good We have realised this in some of the companies that thing? were formed later on, I am not going to mention them, HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... where even the shares of Government were less. At that time, we were driven by lack of money because we did HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… not have anything, we were begging them that they MR AUTLWETSE: Did you hear what he said? He should come here to do business, and they will give us was saying the constituency fund. He is talking about 30 per cent and they will take 70 per cent. Now, at the the funds he did not utilise; even today, the money is moment we are saying, 60 per cent. still at Mahalapye Sub-District. You see I asked him We have even simplified ways in which Batswana who to at least come and join the BDP (Domkrag) so that I are there can do businesses. Things like light trade could teach him administration. licences, let us dissolve licensing committee. Licence should be obtained by the counter, so that all the delays HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… that have been there that I applied for a licence can now MR AUTLWETSE: He does not know how to get out of the way. Motswana should just get on the administer the budget. I am the one who is an expert counter and say, I want a general dealer licence or any in that field; he is an engineer. I am happy because if licence. I teach him financial management, he is going to be a HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… Member of Parliament of repute; that is after joining the BDP, not being on that other side. He is one of the MR AUTLWETSE: If anything there should be a people I adore very much. Mr Speaker let me pause here problem that that place is overtraded. That is what we and give others a chance to work as well.

Hansard No 200 45 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR NKAWANA (SELEBI PHIKWE EAST): Let me were fishermen. With your permission Mr Speaker, may thank you Mr Speaker. I thank you for giving me an I remove this because I cannot speak properly, I am opportunity. suffocating…

Mr Speaker, my intention is to respond to the President’s MR SPEAKER: I am not sure about that because we speech that he presented to us on Monday. I would like to were at some point advised that we should try to… ask for permission from you to start on a very sensitive subject. Just recently, we received a report that there are MR NKAWANA: I am not sitting next to anyone Mr foreign nationals who were killed by Batswana. Let me Speaker. hasten to say I am not saying our soldiers are wrong MR SPEAKER: Okay. because whatever they do, they do it under instruction from their leaders. I would like to point out that our MR NKAWANA: I thank you. Those who do not know soldiers did not take matters into their own hands and this job, about four years back, armed wildlife officers they are well disciplined and professional. were once arrested in Zimbabwe. They were not shot at and killed. No one executed them. They were arrested I would like to rather point a finger at the Minister of and questioned, they told the Zimbabweans who they Wildlife, Honourable Kereng and say ‘Madam your were; the two countries held some talks and they were hands are blood stained.’ If she is denying or not taking released to come home. We do not have a corpse of a the blame, I am blaming Honourable Kagiso Mmusi. wildlife officer who was killed in a different country. Honourable Kagiso Mmusi, please tell the nation what We do not have a Motswana poacher who was killed you are doing at the national parks when you are now in Namibia, Zimbabwe and Botswana. We do not have killing people, yet we have warned you against that. We such corpses. We do not have a story like this one. We told you that you do not know this job, it is known by did not have a corpse of someone who was killed by those who deal with wildlife, please stay away from wildlife officers despite the fact that they were armed. wild animals. Now see how you are creating problems What they have been taught, how they have been trained; for us with our neighbouring countries. Honourable what they know and what they do diligently is to arrest a Minister Kereng should also stand up and explain to the wrong doer, a criminal and bring them to justice, for the nation how come she has allowed Honourable Kagiso courts to decide. We know that in the laws of Botswana, Mmusi to take over her job of taking care of wildlife. Mr a criminal is arrested and they are taken before the courts Speaker, we are talking about a very sensitive matter. where they would be able to also speak for themselves. We are talking about the people of Namibia who have These ones whereby there is execution, shoot at first been killed. They were killed in Botswana and there is sight and kill have been brought about by these ones. no proof of the crime they committed. Honourable Molao has been showing his other colours HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… which I cannot say. Honourable Moswaane is the one who has been describing their characters; I cannot say it MR NKAWANA: We have to know that Namibia is our out but they know. Mr Speaker, we cannot be known as neighbouring country. Namibia is not just our neighbour; provocative people who kill. We are not those types of the inhabitants of that country are our brothers, sisters, people. We are just beginning to see corpses now. cousins, mothers and fathers. The death of one Namibian caused by a Motswana gives us a lot of pain. We are HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… not going to derive any satisfaction out of death of any MR NKAWANA: Hey! The Namibians are our parents; Namibian. Mr Speaker, I said it last time when I was they are our children, our mothers, our cousins and standing here that you are giving soldiers a job which sisters. I have never come across that in my entire life, is not theirs and they are not wrong to have failed or except at your constituency Honourable Molao… having executed it the way they did. The problem is the commander at the time, between Honourable Mmusi MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, and Honourable Kereng who ordered the shooting. SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR Honourable Kereng and Honourable Mmusi have RAKGARE): On a point of procedure. Mr Speaker, swapped workers, or they have taken each other’s jobs looking at the procedures of this House, to protect the and they have committed this hideous crime, these two! relations between Botswana and Namibia, and also Reports have informed us that the people who were shot considering the fact that the issue that Honourable

46 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

Nkawana is talking about, the two heads of states have come here carrying a handbag without a constituency issued statements saying that investigations should be and ask us if it is procedural… carried out, is it procedural for the Honourable Member to continue to bring these issues up as a way to cause HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… confusion? I do not believe that it is procedural. Thank MR NKAWANA: Mr Speaker, we see people doing you. what they are doing, the current incident is an example HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further procedure Mr but we hear that it is said that those men were fishermen. Speaker. The headlines state that those people were killed by Botswana Defence Force (BDF) soldiers as ordered by MR SPEAKER (MR PULE): Wait for me to make the Ministers who I have just mentioned here, since they a ruling on this one. In terms of the Standing Orders, are their leaders. Mr Speaker, you can ask a question… nothing can stop him. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TERTIARY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND MOLAO): Further procedure Mr Speaker. Thank you TECHNOLOGY (MR SHAMUKUNI): On a point of Mr Speaker. As we are here, in a not so long ago time order Mr Speaker. I take it that the Honourable Member this year, a Motswana soldier was killed by poachers is out of order to suggest that the Honourable Ministers and he was buried at Motokwe. Surprisingly, we did not here ordered the soldiers to kill Namibians. I think he see the Honourable Member strongly condemning the is misleading the House and the nation hence he should killing of our soldier by poachers. He was not strongly withdraw that statement. That is a reckless statement. condemning that incident like he is doing right now. We are wondering what he has been offered for him to MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I have a be yelling here in Parliament even though he was not problem with you because you are trying to push me into angry about the death of his fellow Motswana. We are something that I cannot do. There is freedom of speech surprised Mr Speaker. which has to be protected so I cannot stop Honourable Kgoberego Nkawana from saying what he wants to say. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molao, there is nothing As Honourable Members, you can advise him that his unprocedural about that. Honourable Kgoberego statements are reckless but he is not out of order. Nkawana. MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Just as AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC Batswana can cross over to Trans-Vaal in South Africa ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): On a this side; Limpopo or anywhere, we saw Namibians… point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, we are listening attentively in this House, so we cannot just sit back and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL listen to Honourable Nkawana saying that Honourable DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS Kereng and Honourable Mmusi ordered soldiers to MANAKE): On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. Is it go and kill people while we know that it is not true. procedural for us to debate something that is not in the This is misleading. That is a reckless statement. My State of the Nation Address (SONA)? I thought that we appeal is that freedom of speech does not mean that one are discussing the SONA here, now I hear issues that… I should say that the whole Cabinet Minister, Member tried to look for that paragraph but I did not see it. Thank of Parliament… and make reckless statements in you Mr Speaker. Parliament while we are listening. My plea is that he should withdraw that statement because it is misleading. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, please let Even though he has freedom of speech, he should Honourable Nkawana debate because the Standing withdraw that statement. Orders do not compel me to stop him. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. This woman just came here with a handbag after elections, she did HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. not campaign. I am directing her straight to page 63 where the President talked about Botswana Defence HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of order Mr Force (BDF). She must learn to read; she should not just Speaker.

Hansard No 200 47 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, wait. Let me I cannot make any ruling. Maybe I need to seek the make a ruling on this matter first. I am repeating this; advice from Parliamentary Counsel (PC) to guide there is nothing out of order about his statements. He us. Is there anything in the Standing Orders that says could be misleading the nation but he is not out of order. somebody’s opinion can be challenged by asking that person to withdraw the statement? He is simply making HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… a statement that according to him believes is correct and MR HIKUAMA: On a point of order Mr Speaker. Thank somebody has to correct it. In terms of the Standing you Mr Speaker. I think when we look at the sensitivity Orders, I cannot stop him. Where is the PC? Unless of this matter, to avoid presenting statements which are there is something in the Standing Orders that we can picked from the media and assumptions, it is in order use to say Honourable Nkawana should withdraw the for the relevant Minister to explain what happened. He statement that he has made. should update the House about what happened. That is HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of procedure the only thing that can stop people from talking about it Mr Speaker. but stopping people from talking… MR SPEAKER: I think I have to seek the advice from MR SPEAKER: What is out of order? Honourable the Parliamentary Counsel. Hikuama, can you sit down because there is nothing out of order. Can we request Honourable Kgoberego HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker; Nkawana to go on. I ask for procedure.

MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. I really MR SPEAKER: Hold on. Can I seek the advice from appreciate your protection. I have no regrets of what I the PC because as far as I am concerned... said and I am not going to withdraw and I put it to you Honourable Minister Kagiso Mmusi… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure. …Silence…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR SPEAKER: …Honourable Members, since the MR NKAWANA: …(Laughter!)… State Counsel is not here, what I am going to do is to appease us because like I said, I am very clear in my ACTING LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR head that there is no Standing Order that can actually MOLALE): On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. make me stop him from speaking, but if there is any Thank you Mr Speaker. A few moments ago, you legal advice, then I have the service of the Legal Advisor, made an assertion that if the Honourable Member is but because she is not here, can we pause, wait for the misleading the House, there is nothing that we can do. Counsel and then allow Honourable Nkawana to go… I think Mr Speaker, maybe reconsider that statement because the very act of misleading the House is itself MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR out of procedure because he has been challenged by PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT Honourable Morwaeng and others that that is out (MR BALOPI): Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. of procedure. The act of misleading is indeed out of I am rising on a point of procedure, particularly procedure. Thank you. concerning what Honourable Nkawana raised. This Parliament has made our international relations laws MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, let me stand which direct how we are supposed to relate with other up. Every Member of this House is entitled to freedom countries including our neighbouring country he has of speech and if somebody stands in this House and mentioned. Mr Speaker, if then we in Parliament are makes a statement that a Member feels that it is the very ones who want to debate issues which are still misleading, then you need to correct that statement, being followed up and investigated according to the you have to stand on a point of correction if they allow system that is used in the country, I find that untidy and you to correct. You cannot say the person is out of order it portrays us as an irresponsible country together with because if you strictly look at the Standing Orders, there our Parliament which has made the system that we are is nothing that deprives somebody to have freedom supposed to follow. Despite being aware that this issue of opinion and speech. That is what I am saying, so is being investigated, we are marring it by posting about

48 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

it on social media as Honourable Members, addressing MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I have sought it in relation to State of the Nation Address by the advice, I am just waiting for the advice. President. I believe that this system… MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC MR MOSWAANE: Where is his procedure Mr DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Procedure. Speaker? Thank you Mr Speaker. Earlier on Mr Speaker, one of the Members asked Honourable Nkawana to confine MR BALOPI: This is unprocedural because we are himself to the subject under discussion; which is the a Parliament that established all these laws that are State of the Nation Address (SONA), and he did quite running our country. Mr Speaker, I therefore request that rightly point out to a paragraph on the defence which this statement be expunged from Parliament debates of is consistent with Section 57.1 or Standing Order today. Thank you. 57.1, that he stick into that. The objection here is that notwithstanding his adherence to Standing Order 57.1, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, I also know there is a Standing Order 57.5 where the Member has that this is a very sensitive matter and I do not know proceeded to impute improper motives to Members of why Honourable Nkawana chose to take so much time this Cabinet, to Honourable Mmusi and Honourable talking about it because I thought he was just going to Kereng suggesting that the outcomes of an operation pass through it and then continue with the debate, but that we are not privy to were actually condoned and he decided to dwell on it and I do not know why. Like afforded by their lack of care and due process. We find I said, because there is nothing in the Standing Orders that to be totally inconsistent with the spirit of this that says I can stop you, the duty of the Speaker is to particular Standing Order and I ask you to ask him to protect freedom of speech in this House; that is the withdraw. Thank you. fundamental duty of the Speaker. If somebody decides to say something which probably the House does not MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, Honourable believe in, there is little that I can do to stop that person. Nkawana actually mentioned the Minister of Defence Let me ask the Counsel to help me. and also the Minister of Environment, Wildlife and Tourism, and I want to maybe following the Standing MR TSOGWANE: Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. Order 57.5 which you have rightly quoted there Let me try and assist you Mr Speaker, I am not on the Honourable Matsheka, I can do two things; ask the procedure of Nkawana dwelling more on this issue Minister of Defence to stand up and defend himself since he is saying his political views. Our eyes are rather because he was actually making improper motives on you given your powers in this House that you will against him. Let me just use this moment to ask the protect the speaker and also ensure that there is no abuse, Minister because I have two options… underline that, because I abuse my right to speak in this House, it is upon the Speaker to ensure that abuse is MR MOSWAANE: The Minister does not want to not …(Inaudible)... So, it is upon you to run this House speak about this. appropriately. If somebody insists like he is doing and MR SPEAKER: If you are not comfortable with that… you can see that he is dwelling on this issue, the onus is on you to rule. The procedure falls squarely on you, to MR MOSWAANE: The Minister does not want to say, is the House still on procedure given what this man speak, you are forcing him. is saying, reckless as it is. We are not saying he is right or wrong, maybe he knows that those people are the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane! I want to ones who ordered, maybe he has evidence and if you ask implore Honourable Nkawana because in terms of him to tell us that Ministers have ordered that, he can Standing Order 57.5 he has imputed some improper produce it. Evidence is always sought from Honourable motives to another Member saying they gave instruction. Members just because they were out of procedure and Two things, either to give evidence or withdraw. they were misleading. Now it is upon you to ensure that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure! this House is run accordingly, you protect the freedom of the minority or the speech, but the abuse must also MR NKAWANA: I have not heard your decision but be identified and you must deal with it. I thank you Mr if you took it before I concluded my point concerning Speaker. those people, that is very unjust. I have not finished

Hansard No 200 49 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

what I am saying but if that is what you want me to MR NKAWANA: Mr Speaker, I will bring a document do without hearing how I will conclude, it will be very which indicates that they have been appointed Ministers unfair. Allow me to present… in those ministries both of them, that is the evidence I have… HONOURABLE MEMBER: He did not listen to what you have to say. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR NKAWANA: Allow me to present because you did MR NKAWANA: They are the ones who actually not… control and give instructions. I have said that Honourable Kereng and Honourable Mmusi, the two of them instruct MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, I think one of workers. my duties in the House as well is to ensure that there is peace. So, for the sake of peace... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR NKAWANA: How? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, point of order. MR SPEAKER: Because you have mentioned names of Ministers saying that they have actually instructed HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. ...(Inaudible)… instructions to those people. Can you MR NKAWANA: The evidence that I have is that they give evidence to that effect or withdraw, that it my final do not work in a vacuum, they… word. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Point of order Honourable Molao. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, are you not HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr going to give me a chance? Speaker… HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is deliberate. MR SPEAKER: I am still working on the ruling Honourable Tshabang, Honourable Nkawana go ahead. MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): Point of order. Mr Speaker, this is the first MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Yes, I have time in history that when the Standing Orders state that the evidence that Honourable Kagiso Mmusi is the head when the Speaker has made a ruling it shall be obeyed, of the military... they do not give anyone the right to argue with you if you have ruled that they have to withdraw and they do HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... not agree with you. MR NKAWANA: It is public knowledge since they are HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… political leaders. The second one... MR MOLAO: That is one, everyone has to obey MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana… your ruling. The second thing is, the import of what Honourable Nkawana was saying is that people HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr received an order from the Minister, so he said he will Speaker. give evidence since the Minister is the Minister who is responsible for Defence. This cannot be regarded as MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana… evidence Mr Speaker, unless Honourable Nkawana tells MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, you are now this House that the BDF calls the Minister to give them unnecessarily… a signal to shoot whenever they encounter a danger or whatever. That is the only way the Minister would have HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. instructed them to shoot and kill them, otherwise there is no how the Minister would have given an instruction. MR SPEAKER: …delaying this. Can you withdraw or give evidence because what you are saying is not For the Member to purport here that the Minister gave evidence. an instruction, it is very reckless and belittles the value

50 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

of this Parliament Mr Speaker. So I urge us to protect HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. this Parliament because those who are listening to us out there are looking at this Parliament and saying oh, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, can you so this means Parliament of Botswana Ministers can withdraw the Statement or give this House evidence to give such reckless instructions for people to willy- that effect. nilly shoot and kill. As a way of protecting the dignity MR NKAWANA: Thank you Mr Speaker. I need your of this House, Honourable Nkawana must really desist guidance since I do not have the evidence with me right from his line of debate because it is not true. That is now but if it is allowed I can bring it tomorrow. I need all we are asking as we are the National Assembly of your guidance, I can provide evidence. Botswana, the things that he say reflect on us as the National Assembly of Botswana and as the Republic MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, I said withdraw of Botswana. We cannot allow freedom of speech to be or give evidence. What you said is not evidence enough abused just as Honourable Nkawana is doing, it is really at all so, withdraw your statement or give evidence. unfair and we cannot allow him to proceed along those HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr lines, that is our request Mr Speaker. Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further point of order. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You have the right HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is very reckless. to take the floor away from him if he behaves in this manner Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: I will use Setswana so every Motswana can hear me wherever they are. I started by HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is not so Honourable saying that when Honourable Nkawana started giving Molao… his statement, I thought he was just going to go through HONOURABLE MEMBER: You cannot be… it, considering that he is an elder and the fact that he is an Honourable Member... HONOURABLE MEMBER: …you are threatening the Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, I will ask you MR SPEAKER: Listen to me! He is an Honourable to withdraw the statement or give evidence, otherwise… Member, he is patriotic and understands that these are diplomatic issues. So, I thought he was just going to HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr pass through it and proceed to the State of the Nation Speaker. Address (SONA), but he decided to stay there and like I said, I thought I am protecting freedom of speech HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure. according to the Standing Orders, but in the process he violated Standing Order 57.5; improper motives on MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nkawana, I said you the other Member, picking up the Ministers without should withdraw… mentioning their names because he never said this is what Honourable Mmusi and Honourable Kereng said. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Did he mention my name Mr Speaker? MR SPEAKER: …your statement or give evidence. If MR SPEAKER: I have made a ruling that Honourable you cannot do the two, I am going to stop you from Nkawana should withdraw his statement or give talking. evidence, I do not accept the evidence that they are Ministers of those ministries. I urge him to give us HONOURABLE MEMBER: Throw him out. evidence, otherwise he will be pushing me into invoking MR NKAWANA: Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to Standing Order 60.2 which gives me the right to throw withdraw. I have the evidence, unfortunately not with him out…(Inaudible)… me now, but I can bring it tomorrow...

Hansard No 200 51 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes, that is the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai… procedure. You can…(Inaudible)…tomorrow. MR MOTSAMAI: Sir. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai go on because you are standing on a point of procedure but you now HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. start by telling a story, can you just tell me what your point of procedure is. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. MR MOTSAMAI: It is not possible for me to just HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. stand without saying anything Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr Speaker. Speaker. MR MOTSAMAI: I have to stand first then say my HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. point.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR MOTSAMAI: Point of order. Let us do this HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… Honourable Members, Mr Speaker, Honourable MR MOTSAMAI: What I am saying is, I asked Nkawana heard us… Honourable Nkawana…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR MOTSAMAI: …and as the procedure allows, give MR MOTSAMAI: …to avoid talking much about him a chance so that tomorrow... those issues so he can proceed with his statement like HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… you also asked him Mr Speaker. Additionally, I urge you to give him a chance to bring evidence tomorrow… ACTING LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR MOLALE): Point of order. Mr Speaker... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.

MR MOTSAMAI: I will not sit down because I stood HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr on a point of order. Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. MR MOTSAMAI: …that is my point. So, members on the other side are entertaining a misunderstanding. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. MR MOTSAMAI: I stood on a point of order… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. Speaker.

MR MOTSAMAI: …you can also ask for a point of MR MOTSAMAI: I request that we respect you Mr order. Speaker…

MR SPEAKER: Leader of the House can you…Sit HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. down first. MR MOTSAMAI: …and assist you to run things. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. MR SPEAKER: Let him finish what he is saying. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, my final ruling HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... is; Honourable Nkawana is saying he has got evidence

52 Hansard No 200 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

and he will bring it tomorrow. Now, I am going to stop on a point of order here, regarding the issue where you him from talking. gave the floor to Honourable Motsamai regarding the issue that was said by Honourable Nkawana. At all HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. times, I only indicate what has happened, you were MR SPEAKER: The floor is open for debate. giving those a point of procedure, and us who came with a point of order seem to be left behind. So, I request that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. clarification.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, Speaker. your problem is that you are the ones who create chaos in the House. Someone will stand and say point of order MR SPEAKER: The floor is open for debate. and the other one will say point of procedure, in the end HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr I no longer know who said point of order and who said Speaker. point of procedure. So, you are the ones who mislead me. The floor is open for debate. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Speaker. Speaker. MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… you Mr Speaker. I also want to get into the discussion or the report that was put before us by the President. MR MOSWAANE: Point of procedure. I was saying The words that I will begin with is to focus on land, we have to cooperate while you are at the helm there. It especially looking at the Revised Botswana Land Policy is the order in this House that when someone wants to of July 2019, which I take it that it is still new and it has bring something the next day, he can leave that subject already shown that it has challenges that have to be fixed. and talk about something else. So, what section are you When I look at it, it tells me that our policies maybe using that restricts him to… when we make them, we do not include the necessary MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane, I have made programmes so that policies, all the stakeholders can a ruling. look at it and see that it includes all of us in everything. It is surprising that as it was introduced just recently in MR MOSWAANE: No, I was wondering. July 2019, it has already shown that there are things in it that need to be amended. MR SPEAKER: I have made a ruling. Let me agree with Honourable Members that it is MR MOSWAANE: But justify! necessary that when we are talking about residential MR SPEAKER: I have made a ruling. plots, it is very important that Honourable Minister Mzwinila has indicated that they are going to review it in MR MOSWAANE: No, that is abuse. order to look at the Government programmes to service residential plots first, so that it speeds up the process of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… land allocation. That kind of plan is the one we have MR SPEAKER: Point of order Honourable Leader of long been talking about, especially looking at areas in the House. my Constituency which are far from resources. When you take villages like Gojwane, Moreomabele, Serule, MR MOSWAANE: It is just that you are afraid of the Majwanaadipitse and Tshimoyapula, you will find that ruling party. Ah! they have places they can use to allocate land, and then the main issue is now to wait for this land to be serviced. MR MOLALE: Point of order. Mr Speaker, with due That is what causes delays in allocating plots to people. respect, I request through you the advice of the Legal That is an important factor they have to rectify so that Counsel. Ordinarily, one would have thought point plots can be allocated to Batswana. of order takes precedence over a point of procedure because the order is trying to bring things under control, The other issue that I addressed in the last Parliament not under procedure. So we have been trying to speak is the one to consider the distance between boreholes,

Hansard No 200 53 Thursday 12th November 2020 RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT’S SPEECH Motion (Resumed Debate)

that when Honourable Mzwinila commented, he saw it as one of the things they are going to look into. Let me indicate that maybe at the moment he was not stubborn, he managed to listen to us. That is a programme to prevent us from finding that farms that are allocated 6 by 6, since at the moment Batswana are selling them, they now sell that much land. If they are divided that way, Batswana can be able to develop them as 3 by 3. If that is the case, Batswana can be able to be given boreholes without looking at the distance of 6 km, but looking at 3 or 4 km which can give them the opportunity to use underground water. At the moment, it was becoming hard that if you have found water 3 km from the other person’s borehole which is 6 km, you were not able to be allocated a borehole so that you can fulfil Government programmes that we should grow animal feed. That is a great programme that they are now reviewing. They

are not supposed to spend a lot of time on it because at the moment, Botswana has been negatively affected by COVID-19 virus. That means that they have to hurry so that Batswana can produce food and feed Botswana.

The other issue he addressed…

MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, as it is now 6 o’clock, I shall now call upon the Leader of the House to move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

ACTING LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR MOLALE): Thank you Mr Speaker. I move that this House do now adjourn. Thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 5:56 p.m. until Friday 13th November, 2020 at 9:00 a.m.

54 Hansard No 200 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. D. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa, Ms M. Madubeko HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Motswakhumo, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

55 Hansard No 200