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-/ O -u aoo'a toc > o.laJilJ o! o,Ect u! iO tF,!i o ts' o ,s!orco O !-'q .r €l! .r .d l!l6 -oo !)u< E '! >U O ('.J EF !.! - o>oo ots. I I >!. ! >! o l! € o!o!t': DE o do qJ doJ o !i! E.a o€cr c )6 t ca, ci oEt o'! .cc) Ea .r (, 6EO Grr, '! 60 c . tE o o i or. oo .ntrooo Eolrx. r !oo> >loj@'l ,aEt o6>i! > t3 c!t'! ;.r d,c c ! o > o r.i.! or, ao6 rD o oit t a,- ; q rJiq ,l!>0 . ll, .c ' octa oo . nl (l) ! o.r i -r!-c o c t o.cr c' no or a co0 0 > 6Et o Hoor. 3 i ! E ' oo"3 aec 6 I B -6 o d>.e i iri i! ero 'ro tc, rJ: Foto €o'!rD o> ! !.r, . e or!Eh.-o sr:r u> .r t!(J o 10 > o Thurston: know that song by the Fall, sexisl thing to say but its a very sexist of us playingand allol a suddenthe bandwill businessand its the sort of situationthat turn into BlackFlag and you'llsee Rollinson Al: No... negatesitself. stage or lan MacKaye'sin it, Nick Cave, Thurston:The onlv words are like "L.., L... A... AI: Do you feelthat lh€ worn€ncan be more Borroughs,Kerouac, a lotol differentp€ople,., A.,,"That was.the most perlect song l'd ever sensiliveto a bandsneeds... SteveMcDonald from Redd Kross is in it.Jack heardfor L.A."L.-. L...A... 4...' Thatsong to Thurslon: No, women ars iust rnorc sensitive Breweris in it... me reallyspoke about L.A., irjusr said it all... to rock.That's why its sucha maledominated Al: Youdid thisvideo yourselves. Klm: Big and empty,I rneanit's just so big business.Do you thinkwomen invented rock Lee:Yeah we did allol the editing. andspread out. I grewup h€re... androll? Al: I m€anyou, in particular? Al: So whatsthe dealwith SST or BlastFirst? Lee (to Kirk):Do you thinkpeople who read Lee:Yeah. ThurstoniWe wereon BlaslFirst b€lore we Fliosidewill bo intoSonic Youth? Al: I wereon SST...Blast First didn'l have anything Klrk:Yeah, did yousee our lastpoll? that stulf happeningin the U,S.A.and we neededa with all the dealfor the U.S.because we didn'twant our fallingapan recordsiust available on import,SST poll It was very diflicult the 80's, wanled Sonic il$el a misprinf., Y€ah,we jusl put that in all up, lt's set up a sitr. in lhe Thurston: It's viewabb bi.rtactually in a lew Enigma,iCapitol dislribution, lo it altersthe soundtrack,everytirne lhey comitted band duplicateit, ir is slightlydifferent. There's band, period. ll shouldn't placesthat th€ video makeslhe soundtrack sort be such a surprise,you've seen what we go 'Vwrrrerererrri'.But you can't reallytell coverin Flipside... with my stutf,That was the beginningol a lol wantedto be on SST. Thursion: I had the Flipsidecalendar, but I ot experimentingwith that stuff.There's an Thurslon:Oh yeah. lostit, do youhave anothqr one? editorthat we'veworked with that'slound a Klm: Theychanged a lot sincethe tim€ we Al: No, we were gonna reprintit when the way to preserveall ol rhe glitchmaterial, We joined,they just keptsigning bands, And lor a daysbecarne valid again, whenever that is. were gonnado the TeenageRiof videothat band lik€ us we kindafelt lost wilh tho way Lee:I wanta FliosideVid€o with us on it! way but il was reallyimpossible b€cause it lhingswere going. Thursion:I gavea copyto Thurston!Did you keptruining th€ music. Al; So BlaslFirst has an oflice herein L.A, guys ever do anythingwith that? Stewart Al: Theyw€r€ pretty interesting lor awhile... nowor what? Sweazy (prornotor ol D€solationC€nter Lee: We kept them shon. $eve (drummer) Thurston:Yeah, Ray Fafell,they hav€their Shows) said you, Kim, were gonna edit and I did a whols s€riesof showsin Europe own cornerdown al Enigma,and they have som€thinglogether with all that stutl. and a couplein NewYork and we usedthat oflicesin NewYork. We likeit alsobecause its L€e: There'sabout 10 secondsof it in our videostuff. We hada bunchof TVsbehind us i"t a labellhat pretty much, besides Ray Farell, is newvideo, withthat ffashy imagery, We had 4 ampswith a labellhat is governedby women.That son Al: Really,10 secondshuh? guitarsin frontof them,Steve played drums of attract€dus. As far as the entertainrnentLee:Our newvideo is a r€alcollage, we sorta and partol il was mixingtapes and partol it busin€ss goes, women are much more raidedour video libraryand put in a lot of wasturning on allfour amps and havingthese brilliantas lar as dealingwilh it. That'sa v€ry dilterentlhings that ws liked,th€re's tootage guitarsdoing these wild things.Sometimes th€re'dbo two or three drumm€rcactually. Klrt: Do you listen to a lol ol lhat stufl at such a minor quanlitycarn€ out. Klrk:What wero lhoso shows billed as? horne. Al: Youar€ a rscordcollector... Lec: FromH€ro To lnlinity. Lee: I listenlo sorn€oth€r poople, there's a Thutston: Yeah, I alwayswas.,. The west Ktrk:You guys are into f nE andsluft... lot ol it. coastlhing at lirst was lik€ totallyripping ofi Ktm:Into lilms? Y€ah.,. ws se€a lotof nlms. Klrki A lotol peoplehave a glooflryside to it. Londonpunk thing. Ths tig turningPoint was Klrk: Wasn'tsorn6 ol your musicin a dealh L6o:No, l'm not intothat whol€ side of it. You when Londonpunk di€d and it furn€d inlo tip fitm? know Boyd Rico?He hasa rocordot similar SpandauBallet. All of th€ Calitornlapun*s Klm: Yeah, maybe, Bichard Kern, h€ also stuff.John Cago,there's a whol€ historyol \rv€rosilll gainlrE nprnsntum and it b€cam€a shot DeathValley '69 th€ vid€o, and he used thal type ot stutl. s€l| p€rp€tuatedscon€, some ot his stuff trom oth€r films in it. In the Al: You guys nev€r s€m to grow your hak At At the tirne that all of this was happsni'g, new video wo use footage he shot ol us over roallylong.long... what were you doing, playing guitar? - a year ago and nevg snd€d up b€ing us€d. Thurston: He (L€€) used lo have one ol Thurston: I wae in lh€ Corchm€n. Bul th€r€ We recycledit. those great big Garcjahair things, smo*sd a was nottdng happsnirE in N€n{vYork, There Klrl(: Wof€ hk rnovbs very succ€€stul? pipe, and h6 us€d to trav€l acrossth€ counlry was no ring happeningliko lhe Masque,we Klm: On a cult level.He's not doing them andlollow th€ Dead. dldnl have thal kind of contraderyin th€ anyrnore. Al: k thistru6? scens, You had sverybodygrowing up in Thurston: lraybe wornon dldnt invenl rock Lar: Ysah! Ilwas was in SantaSanla Barb€rajail in like... difier€ntdillerenl High Schools, bul all with thslh€ sarn€ and roll... 1974... environment. In New York il was liko, vouyou Al: Then You guys ke€pthat cl€ancul punk rock didn't rnoveto New York untilyou wer€ 18, Thu.ston:Msybs lt's lik€ worn€n don't invent, look as oppos€dthe th€ heavyrnetal grunge 19, untilyou wsro in your20's. I movsdthers it'g lik6 only rneninvent and worn€nars just look... from Connecticut,but w€ gnly liv€d an houf responsiblefor it. Thurglon: Kim tak€s car€ ol a lot of the and a hall away, il w€ wanted to ddvs ws'd Klm: Men gei inlo rock and roll to tfy to leel aspects ol our,,. our lookll? lt just son ol go to Max's or sornething. Her6 you had whatits liketo bo a woman. cornesout ol uh,,,.il's sort ol uh... pooplewho w€ntto schoolIn L.A.county, you Al: certainlya lot of lhe glambands suppon Klm:Thurslon lorgot his parkal hadlhis rolalionship in the audisncs. that... Thurslon:Yeah, I usuallywear a big Alaskan Klrk:What high school did yougo ro Kim? Thurston:I rneanlhsre mustb€ sorn€logic, parka,and it'ssona catching on aroundhere. Klm: Uni High,sarns plac€ as DarbyCrash, som€rcason why there are glam bands. W€ saw$orne kids in the pit the othernight in DavidCassidy... Klm: lt's an ok roasonfor themto showtheir Minneapolis,and h€ hada parkaon... Al: So as you kept up on lh€ whole punk lemale side, Normallylh€re's only c€rtain rnovem€nt,what led to lh€ directionyou ernorionsthaltraditonat|vm€nareG]e-,.L"DtookwilhSonrcYourh?|gu€sslh6is a||oweorceXpIess,DultlyoureuponIEEtneoanongnta[erInscoacnrnen... Kiri:Lee.Ie[rn€8ooutvouI@cnucKBarryni|ts.rnalwasa||IoIa||v '"w photogrephy, I saw sorn€ Swans reffiil -W@f$.si happoningend it had a largo etfect... photographsawhib ago thal had your reroea$. ;'' iEffiGd Thers w€re people lika clenn Branca, narneon ihem? - g.SF' jreet;*; who I was involv€d with. who were Lee:Yeah|sortofjustdoi|when|h9v€@.{.refin|er€stedindoingsophislicat€dmusic metme.|o|osomeo|usInalweuso.-it€k.1re*anoatInesam€urnewasI€a||y Wedoarl sortsof sluii whenweie horr€ E8!tsQ& " rnleresledin these r€ay anarchistrc ;:re- rry,"{".H:i1J#ff"l,,ffflT"i:s'#fl)ill8'i :Til.l ;*"T3'.'11 ii Ire*re-'# ft u,ffi p"1i:ff"i,1#'i":l',lJfflii"?.?ili'"iffi1i.'iYirfl:-ff5;::T} - rr. -Ire Khk:Haveyouhadanylhlngpub|ish€d?E,"D;"".nruRamoneso'TeenageJ€susandlh€ Lee:'lusI||[|eD[sanopEces.Tnur$onk*Ie-EJ€rKs.|twasr€a||vrea v|nsane.|(X'l :..- i:- :::-. :.:., ;-:..:i=;.,. :..- .,,.;..;:*,i.. F,e,.,,r- ,a.i,,;.i.i. --.a.-,E -tr -EE d|'r:TnaIswnete|s6wsor'r€orvoUrryoacf|no|rom|neanwonoHe'soone orcTUIes.oovoUlaxgvoUrcEUTeraonffianeaoanonc'revoUco|nIooo|nqrYrorq .cL|i..|'iivcL'ffisonoIcomoosermusrc.BLrLeeo|avec Lee: Yeah, sornelirn€swhen I can. A lot with him and I rnet L€e,lhen Kimand we ol the stutlin our videoI shoton ths lasltour Al: Wow,you guys get a pit in Minneapolis! slarledSonic Youth. This was a lirn€in New with a moviecamera that ltook along,When Klm: We've bo€n gettingthess kind of pit Yor!, after No Wav€, there wasn't much we did our Evoltour in 1985we took a video waves,in tactit wasbig in Minneapolis. excitinggoing on, iust a lot ol lameass pop carreraon the whole tour vtith us. That is Al: See,youte Flipsidemaleriall Ha ha ha... bands.we just said tuck it, and got cheap eventuallygoing lo cotn€ oul as a n]ovie. Thurston: That whole inital L.A, punk rock guitarsand scr€wdriversand turned lh€ amps Sorneof lhat was shotout the windowol the thing was like lotallyignored in New York. up lo 10.The narneSonic Youth sort ol cam€ van. FlipsideFliosadewas anar unknownentty. You'd go into out of reler€nceto FredSonic Smith, and the Klrl(:Klrk: How daddid vouryour solo record @rne abouf?about? a record store and s99qog an X 'Adult Books' MCs.The Youth cam6 oul ol, at thetirne th€r6 Lee:A lot of it wasjust tapes I hadaround the and you sortqt-.!new ,w aboutaDour it,rr, butour you didnlolon_r waslhism|s resurgenceoloT reggae musicmustc goinggotng on hous€and somethat I mad€especially tor it. buy it. NobO.{y.caredd about it. lt wasn'twasn't for white middlgclass kids like m€,rn€. so we It just carne out of my bands,and like Dischord were a combinalion of the MCS and rop lhing. bandostaned up... They wer€ coming out ot somebodylike Big Youth.Thal's wherethe :r'i.r: ',i: Klrk: ls allthalstuflslufl $rftals?'duitan? rrr,r .'-lhelhe CalilorniaCalitorniathinothlng even thoughthouohthey thev were narn€nary!€carn€ lrom,from. but shortyshorflv thereatterthereafler we Lee: Mostof it is but I dont evenknow what addinganother attitude to it, as far as their staied noticingkids who were like shaved son€ of it is, it's beenso changedlrom b€ing musicalinspiration- they weren't getting il heads,playing short songs, prornotingthis re-recordedand rs-recorded...just tromtape form Televisionor the Dead Boys,It wasn't straightedge thing and usingthe word 'youth' deckdistortion. There's no efiectsb€ing used until the hardcorething that peopl€$aned a lot.,,Reagan Youth in NewYork ol course, its just guitarsplayed into a tape deck,then notlcingand everybody wanted those records. so it was kinda weird, lt was conlusing manipulat€d-cut up, splicedback logether, Thenyou couldn'tget it becauseit was afler because people that knew us knew we backwards,lorwards... they all camsout, lhey disappearedbecause weren'ta hardcorsband and the hardcores that knew us knew that we wersn't an art thess bands all acrossth€ country doing the Klm: Yoah,we had b€€ntying to put thatout band. We were ngither.Wo wer€ a pan of sanreformula. I thoughtthat was grsat. lt was for a longtirne. We firstput il out on nothing. amazing!You'd go ro a gig and eightbands out of our Al: A lot of earlylhings I've read link you to wouldcorne out andthey'd all bo the same!..: to comingout ol the No Wav€ora which kinda Al: Thoy'restill on lhe blue indirectlvlinked vou to the art world.That's Thurston: wher€ this total the impressionI got out here. initial lo it comesmi'r'Know you guys Thurston:Ws weren'tpad No Wave row,I want to. drills and stuff, it that what tl rhing,we only witn€ggsdr$ you can tell who's out ol it, lancertainly to Al: What did Sonip Youth Nobodyelse musically? it. The l'loach ro playing a drumrner al lhat tirn€, and w€ had a much rnoreson shittyguilars, so we'd be hinjnga drumwith a t record oul dlmgt |Ils}lediatly, itf:lpbfileneous hardcore approach, sort of drum slick and hittingthe guitar at the safi€ you seriouslyas soon as you pul aggressiveness.Jusl l€arninghow io work on lirns.Just like tucking around. Klrk Howdid you eversound check with the somethingout... especiallyin New York stage. "Ok, b€caus€there wasn\ a r€alindie lab€l sc€ne. Klrk: Whatdo yourhlnk ol lhat'SwanicYoulh' drill? gimmietho drill"(iaughrer) Glenn Brancaout our r€cordout becausehe singlorhat Myk€lBoard did? Klm: I don'tknow, thats a gqodquestion. I wanted lo starl a record lab€|, he daned Klm: Well,ws know him,wo tad nothingto don\ think we did sound checks in lhose Neutral R€cords,w€ wers the firsl thing h€ do withii, I didn'lthink it wasthat tunny. daysl put out, The whole music scene changed Klrk Just ths lact that h€ spent money to Klrk: Why did Bob B€rt (drumrner)quit rhe quicklyatter that, ths wholeDischord lhing, it rsl€asaa ioke, thats kindaweird. band? was reallypotent. Klm: Hesold a lot in Holland, Klm: I don'tknow, he just got Al; Did thal havs an impacton you guys as Klrt: Do you lind a lot ot p€ople making still s€s him all the ilnre. lar asyour music was concerned? bootlegs? it Thurston: lt did lo rne inilially,when I lirst Klm: No, \rt6don't r€ally care as long as it's sawMinor Thr€at I just thought"My Godl The notour recordlab€lthat dolng lt, grealestqrealestlive band I have ever seen". SonicallvSonically Klrk: Wasn'tthsrs,A Droblem with lhey wsre just so stimulating. The whole Klm; Y 'Al: lt's hardto imaginehaving full lim€ to work philosophythey had as far as what they were that live on a band,do you guys get rnoreprolific or doinq and what their friends w€|e doinq was reEaseon do youspend more tirne ironing things out? a lot of Drobloms.ll was so Thurston: We should gel more prolilic,it's a{iii}slve lor a boo eg, peopls didn't realizo weird becausewe don't have a r€hersalplace to anything.I thinkit it wasn't,We had rejectedall ol thos€lapes or a studioor anthinglike that. For lhe last was a realli healthything. Musicallyall of but a lot of peoplereally liked it... we got recordwe had a hard tirnelinding a place- these bands soundedthe same but that's thingsall sorted out. w€ toundthis lin|ehallway to practicein andit what I liked about it. The idea ol, all ol a Kllk: You finallyr€leased sorne early live stufl soundedhorribl€. W€ wrotethe wholedouble sudden, like alter about a year, you had all on SST... albumthere. lt's rediculous.I think it we hada pa spacewilh a lhe albumwould hav€ b€€n a Thurslon: Um...let's not do lyric queslions, Al: Ooyou lhink ther€ ts a differsntpe€onalty mjllionlirnes better.lt's alwaysboen that way, lyric questionsreally suck unlossyou're a that cornesout when you are doing lyrics? that'sthe way it is in New York.Thats why roally ovedy political lyricist or an overdy Thurston: Yeah, I think it is rnore ol a closet bands don't existthere. lts so hafd, it's so romanliclyricist or whatevar.None ol us hav€ p€rsonality.SornetinEs its liketh€ p€rsonyou expensiveto live there. The rnost imoortant rsally, mayb€ | should speak tor mys€tf,but I w|sn was more you ovsr y than you lhing is just gel arg. to the hsll out ol thers. We donl think lhat nons of us sit down and Thats the grealthing about b€ingin a rock startedtouring immediat€ly, Our tirst couple ol lranscrlbeour lyricsin sucha lileralsens€, lt's band,I can espous€things liks you tourswere peopl€ that and in lrontof 10 everylime, just sornethlng lhal you tlu$ arpngst can reallyembarass yoursett and havs a good Al: Do you thinkthal's its kind ol snowball€d yourselves.-You go through phasss when €xcus€ tor it, lls the recendy. sarns lhing with liks Thisis sortof an auditoriumtour. youle growingup, €speciallylyric writing, it's doing splits in th€ air on stage,you're Thurston:Yeah, we're playing lhre€ shows at like 2oth centuarypo€tsy, youte eitherr€alty the Roxy(in L.A.),we weresuppos€d lo play seriousaboul it or youdon't care aboul il, We the VarietyArts Ceder. I don't llkeplavinq in you recorded? Thurston: Yeah. I do a couple of song! telt that. differentlyevery night wearing Siou the Banshees tdeas you want to add to it, b€ it potitical or O: Whydid Bapemando a sonq call€d"Kim and nit the firstgig they'vehad in a rnonthand sDnruatEeas. Gordon'sPanties". a halfand it'slike playing SonicYouth is with Klrk: Do youlhink Sonic Youth has an imaqe Thurston: That's onlvonly b€caus€b€causo that song,s.'ftt ,l I I sorne local band and thsy're a n€w wave to keepup? Steve band. you Albinithoughtsounded liks us. Also But can't und€restimat€people,s Klm: Yeah,we haveto carryingaround Decaus€ ,{irereplaying involvementas tar asthe musicis concern€d, all ol lhoss guitarsl i,like 20 guitars. Kim you can't say one persondeserv€s lo bs rnore (Ontour with involvedwith musicbecau€g tll6,had rnoreot Klrk; I throwa with it. fla ha ha. lnree. Kl.k: Do you think there is an explosion do you thinkot th€ reall€chnical comingup thatwi includeyou guys? hterviews,where they want to lalkquitars? Klm; I thinkthere is now.Like with lh€ pussv cockroachesin Klm:The other day the guy trom cuitar ptayer Galor€lhing. Al: A lot of your lyrics, or the imag€ryol the Magazinosps a coupleof dayswith us ano Klrk: Wiuld youhook that up withyou guys? bandmight lead to that, he just figured out all of the guitar stulf with Klm: No, They're p€€rs. Thurston:I guess not r€allyour Wsrve bul a lot ol i1..,you iust son the songs in terms of r€gulartuning. We been playing lor like 7 years, poeple ol walk awaytrom it. who I don't fe€l responsible playedsongs and he transcribedil. Thats ok started playing at the sarne time for any aclionssornebody lakes ss us w€re aflerhearing for GuitarPlayer Magazine but nrostpoople liko ButtholeSurfers, Big Black, Siwans... a songof ours.That person has to decidetor just ask us how manyguitars w€ have.This PussyGalore younger themself. are and influencedby guywas into it, us - | rneanTeenage O: Cha-chingl Jesus,the CrampsAND 99ry: (Editorol TransworldSkatoboarding) us. lt'sjust a djtf€rentg€neration. lt's likswhat Al: I don't knowwhat som€peoples inrersst What'syour lavoritesong trom ScrarchAcidt YouthOf Today may your 'Cannibl€,. is to the Dischordbands. Ws b€ in lyrics,what is yourrnotivation Thurston:Th6 on6 call€d weretotally influenced or inspirationfor by the hardcorosc€ns, someot thelhings you say? O: Cha-ching! but we staneda bit belore all of that.