Thursday Volume 513 15 July 2010 No. 33

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 15 July 2010

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what can be done to speed up transactions. I know that House of Commons my right hon. Friend the Minister for Housing is looking at ways to speed up the introduction of e-conveyancing. Thursday 15 July 2010 Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): Why has the Secretary of State decided, alongside the abolition The House met at half-past Ten o’clock of HIPs, that energy performance certificates should no longer be required at the point when a house is initially viewed for purchase? Does he intend to downgrade the PRAYERS importance of those as well?

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Mr Pickles: Gracious, no—indeed, under our green deal, energy certificates will perform a much more important role. They will be about bringing the price of energy down and ensuring that somebody with a house Oral Answers to Questions that has a good energy certificate does well, because we want to get houses on to the market. We will insist that the energy certificate be commissioned and in place before the sale takes place. It is about speeding things COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT up—the hon. Gentleman is not familiar with that idea. We are in favour of house sales, not bureaucracy. The Secretary of State was asked— Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I am Home Information Packs glad to hear that the right hon. Gentleman thought deeply about the consequences of removing the home 1. Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): What assessment has information pack arrangement, but in his careful and been made of the effect on providers of home calculated assessment, did he work out the number of information packs of the suspension of the people whose jobs might be affected? Clearly a number requirement for such packs to be produced. [8500] of people across the housing market professions have been gearing up to work in that area and will now no 3. Mr Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con): What longer have that employment. How many people? assessment he has made of the effect on the housing market of the suspension of the requirement to provide Mr Pickles: When the hon. Gentleman was in another home information packs. [8502] job, during his brief interregnum between spells in this place, he used to advise me solidly to cut away waste The Secretary of State for Communities and Local and speed things up, and I have followed that advice. Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The suspension of HIPs HIPs were just part of a service that was provided. We has given a much needed boost to the housing market. have just heard from the hon. Member for Southampton, Reports from the industry suggest that the number of Test (Dr Whitehead) about energy certificates, and a new homes coming on to the market has increased by number of such services are available. more than one third since HIPs were suspended. We It has to be said that it is not as though the removal of have also estimated that abolishing HIPs could save HIPs came as a shock. It appeared clearly in the manifestos consumers just short of £900 million over the next of the Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats, 10 years. and in the coalition document.

Jessica Lee: Estate agents in Erewash have conveyed Landlords/Agents (Regulation) to me their relief at the home information pack scheme being abolished. Indeed, one estate agent has just described 2. Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): Whether the scheme to me as being a complete barrier to people he plans to introduce a national register of private selling their homes. Can the Secretary of State inform landlords. [8501] the House whether that sentiment is shared by other people working in the housing sector across the country? 14. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Whether he plans to review the regulatory framework Mr Pickles: I am delighted to inform my hon. Friend applying to managing and letting agents. [8513] that joy and happiness among estate agents is not confined to Erewash. Throughout the land, there is a The Minister for Housing (Grant Shapps): The current general understanding that the drag anchor that HIPs legislative framework delivers the right balance of rights were is no longer a constraint on the housing market. and responsibilities between landlords and tenants, so, as I announced to the House on 10 June, we have no Mr Holloway: What further plans does the Secretary plans to add to it, whether through a national register of State have to roll out that happiness and smooth the for landlords or the regulation of managing and letting conveyancing process? agents.

Mr Pickles: I am all for spreading as much joy and Chris Williamson: Why is the Minister so indifferent happiness, and indeed love, as I can, where’er I go. It to the rights of private tenants? Is not he worried that was clear even from the trials that HIPs were going to weakening local authorities’ powers will give a green be a real mess. We now need to look to the future and at light to rogue landlords and lead to a surge in the 1071 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1072 number of houses in multiple occupation? I ask him in Robert Neill: I am aware of my hon. Friend’s campaign all sincerity to think again about ditching the plans to and I pay tribute to his work for small businesses in his give private tenants greater protection—or is he happy area. The Government propose to introduce a business to usher in a new era of Rachmanism? growth bonus, which will reward local authorities for giving planning permission for new business premises. Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman may not have We are also examining ways to enable local authorities been here when I last addressed this subject, but I am to discount the business rate, and we will ensure that in keen to protect tenants’ rights and to ensure that sufficient areas where business rate supplement is considered, landlords can operate in the market and are not regulated businesses have a proper opportunity to vote on it in a out of it, thereby making rents more expensive for the ballot. very people who want to go into the private rented Dan Byles: Local councils’ powers to help small sector. I looked long and hard for and asked in the businesses in their areas and to help areas in need of Department about the supposed landlords register that economic regeneration, such as the town of Bedworth the previous Government announced. I could not find a in my constituency, are limited. Does the Under-Secretary scrap of paper about it, leading me to conclude that it agree that local councils need more powers, such as the was more a case of a press release than a policy on a ability to vary business rates within a borough or district landlords register. to create local economic regeneration zones, to help new and existing businesses invest in struggling towns Lilian Greenwood: There are almost 11,000 private and villages? tenants in my constituency, many of whom are students, including overseas students, who are particularly vulnerable Robert Neill: That is precisely why the Government to exploitation by rogue landlords—there are numerous propose to introduce the opportunity to discount the examples of that. Does the Minister agree with the rate, to consider the way in which business rate supplement Association of Residential Letting Agents that tenants operates in an area and, above all, to ensure that, at the deserve protection, and that regulation is required to same time as we create the ability to attract housing into drive up standards? an area through our council tax incentive, we give an equal incentive—the business rate growth incentive—to Grant Shapps: I agree absolutely that tenants deserve provide jobs and business in an area. protection and that regulations are, of course, required. Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): However, perhaps the hon. Lady would like to reflect on Given that, regrettably, the Government are downgrading the fact that we have been in government for two benefits to the consumer prices index rather than linking months whereas her party were in government for 13 years. them to the retail prices index, will they be helping There must be a good reason why the previous Government small businesses by linking business rates to CPI rather did not regulate the industry further in that time, and than RPI? there is: many different powers are available to local authorities to ensure that they look after residents. Robert Neill: The most valuable assistance that we Those powers now include HMO-ing, and we will ensure have given is ensuring an extension of the business rate that they apply in areas where local authorities want relief. Moreover, we are assisting small businesses in them, but we no longer need the bureaucracy of their particular and we have increased the threshold for empty applying nationwide. property relief this year to £18,000—all of which the previous Government signally failed to do. Business Rates (Small Businesses) Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): The Government often tell us that hard choices must be 4. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): What steps he made in these difficult economic times. May I ask the is taking to assist small businesses with payment of Minister about port rates? The Labour Government business rate bills. [8503] recognised the difficult position of ports businesses that were faced with backdated rates by giving them eight 12. Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): What years to pay. In those circumstances, how does the steps he is taking to assist small businesses with Minister justify spending hundreds of millions of pounds payment of business rate bills. [8511] entirely wiping out the legal rates of those businesses, when other public services for which he is responsible The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for are suffering? Is not that a pretty disgraceful piece of Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): We pork-barrelling, given that the measure is aimed at what are doubling the level of small business rate relief in were Tory target seats in the last general election? England for one year, from 1 October 2010. More than People up and down the country who face their services half a million businesses in England are expected to being cut will ask why that is a priority in these difficult benefit, with approximately 345,000 businesses paying times. no rates. That will be a valuable reduction in fixed costs Robert Neill: I think it is a better use of money than for new and existing small businesses. £2 million for the furniture in Eland House, if I might say so. With respect, the right hon. Gentleman neglects Nick de Bois: In Enfield North, we have been the fact that his Government’s policy was roundly campaigning hard to bring in new businesses and start-ups condemned by the cross-party Select Committee on and to encourage people to relocate to the area. What Communities and Local Government as being wholly practical steps will the Under-Secretary take to allow inadequate, and condemned by a number of his hon. my local authority to get behind that campaign? Friends who represented port constituencies. 1073 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1074

The right hon. Gentleman’s policy neglected to reflect It is entirely possible for progressive local authorities to the reality that a discount for eight years did not remove co-operate, as they are, for example, in Essex, Manchester the book liability that fell on ports businesses. That and Worcestershire, to ensure that cross-border issues drove a number of them into balance-sheet insolvency, are properly dealt with. That is exactly what they are which in turn created cash-flow difficulties with their doing. banks and actually put some out of business. The Government are keeping jobs in port constituencies and Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I thank the communities, and I am very proud that we are doing so. Minister for that reply. Will he extend his guidance to planning inspectorates, so that emerging regional spatial Regional Spatial Strategies strategies that have not yet been adopted, and indeed emerging core strategies that existed merely to comply with RSSs, are considered immaterial by inspectors? 5. George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): What guidance he has issued to local authorities on the Greg Clark: I am pleased to confirm to my hon. procedure for re-examination of the allocation of Friend that we have indeed done that. It is worth strategic development areas and major development pointing out that because of that great panoply of areas under former regional spatial strategies. [8504] regulation and imposition, only 18% of authorities had actually adopted a regional strategy, years after they The Minister of State, Department for Communities were first required. and Local Government (Greg Clark): The Government issued advice to local authorities on 6 July. Following Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): I do not the revocation of the regional spatial strategies, planning know whether the Minister is aware of or concerned for major development areas is for local communities to about the damage that his changes to planning policies determine, free from interference from unaccountable are already causing, but has he had the chance to read a regional quangos. If local authorities wish to retain well researched article in the Financial Times at the policies on strategic development areas, they are free to weekend, which showed that 7,500 houses in various do so in their local plans. schemes have already been cancelled as a result of those changes? Is it not the case that the Government’s policies George Hollingbery: I thank the Minister for his are already proving damaging to the house building answer. As well as freeing local communities to make industry and bad for everyone in desperate need of a real decisions for themselves about where they live, will home? he also ensure that the time-wasting, box-ticking, intrusive and expensive, inspector-led and Government office-led Greg Clark: I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, compliance process that went with those central diktats, who chairs the Communities and Local Government is also consigned to the dustbin? Committee, but I do not know where he has been for the past few years. He should know that the number of Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and house completions has been at an historic low—the for the benefit of Members, I am today placing in the lowest since the second world war. Our intention is to Library of the House two items. The first is the documents increase house building by removing the imposition associated with the south-east regional plan, which that sets people against development. It is a disastrous consists of 3,000 pages and weighs 2 stone. That has situation when people are against developments. By been replaced by the second item, which consists of six allowing people to create communities in the way that pages of guidance weighing 1 oz. If anything encapsulates they want and to share in the economic benefits of that, the difference between this Government’s approach and we can take the poison out of the planning system. the previous Government’s approach, it is that we are Non-departmental Public Bodies freeing local authorities from that burden. 6. Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): If he will take steps Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): to reduce the functions of the non-departmental public Does the Minister recognise that under the Planning bodies for which his Department is responsible. [8505] and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004, the local development plan, by which all planning decisions in an area should 16. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): What steps he is be determined, is defined as comprising two elements: taking to reduce the functions of non-departmental the local development framework and the regional spatial public bodies for which his Department is responsible. strategy, which have equal status. Removing one at a [8516] stroke, as the Government propose, leaves most people who think about this subject very fearful that the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Government are creating a situation in which the local Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): development plans will be unfit for purpose and there We will definitely take steps to reduce the functions and will be litigation and protracted delay, all of which will cost of the Department’s quangos. We are reviewing lead to the halting of necessary development. How do each of our 27 quangos—a number that astonished the Government justify that? me—in the context of the Public Bodies Bill. We are committed to increasing accountability and to reducing Greg Clark: The right hon. Gentleman is behind the their number and costs and the overlap of their functions times. The regional spatial strategies have been revoked: with local authorities. Announcements have been made they are not about to be revoked, they are no more, they on the Infrastructure Planning Commission, the Homes are dead, they no longer exist, they are ex-strategies. and Communities Agency, the Standards Board and the When it comes to spatial planning—[Interruption.] The National Housing Planning and Advice Unit. A review strategies have been revoked under current legislation. of the Tenant Services Authority is also under way. 1075 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1076

Jane Ellison: I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. money having been agreed and set aside, as he and other When I am talking to the leader of my local council— colleagues have claimed. If there had been, I would have Wandsworth, a top-rated council—one of the great received an accounting officer’s letter, but I did not. Will frustrations expressed is about the number of plans and he confirm, therefore, that there was £540 million in the strategies that senior officers are compelled to write in Department’s budget last year that we planned and areas such as youth offending and adult social services, agreed with the Treasury to spend this year on affordable when their time would be better spent delivering those housing, and that it has been cut back by a further local services. May I have some assurance that we will £220 million? Will he now admit that his Ministers and determine what strategies are needed locally rather than team have not had the strength to stand up to the centrally? Treasury and have not had the courage to come to the House to tell us about the cuts they are making? Andrew Stunell: I agree with my hon. Friend. I was looking at some of the figures for the Homes and Andrew Stunell: I read in the newspapers that it was Communities Agency, which delivered—or at least assisted the previous Chancellor who could not persuade the in delivering—55,000 houses at a cost of £80 million, Prime Minister of the day that he needed to stop which is £1,500 on the price of every house built. Local borrowing and start tackling the deficit—but of course, authorities have building inspectors, planning officers that might have just been a press report. As I understand and auditors, and much of the activity is clearly duplicated it, the housing pledge that the right hon. Member for and wasted. We have cut the comprehensive area assessment Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) brought to the and the regional spatial strategies, and we are giving House was for £1.5 billion. We have now authorised the local authorities the opportunity to take the decisions release of £1.25 billion of that pledge. There will be themselves, with the experts that, in most cases, they housing built on a scale that the Labour party never already employ. We must cut out the duplication and achieved while in power. nonsense that flows from the system set up by the previous Government. Government Office for the North West Henry Smith: Can my hon. Friend outline briefly how he plans to democratise the decisions and functions 7. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): What plans he currently undertaken by quangos that will shortly cease has for the future of the Government office for the to exist? north-west. [8506] Andrew Stunell: The whole point—or at least a significant The Secretary of State for Communities and Local part—of what we are doing is based on restoring Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The coalition Government’s accountability for the decisions that these bodies have programme for government, published on 20 May, stated been taking. In some cases, we are ensuring that functions that return to the local authorities, where they should have been. If we take for example the Standards Board, it “we will abolish the Government Office for London and consider cost £8,000 per complaint upheld. We are saying that we the case for abolishing the remaining Government Offices”. can sweep that away completely and restore the monitoring We are currently discussing this with interested parties, of standards to local councils; in addition, we are including the trade unions. getting support from our colleagues in local government to provide a peer review process at a much reduced cost. Esther McVey: The north-west employs more public sector employees than any other region in the country John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): The apart from London. Although I welcome the Government’s Department’s biggest agency is the Homes and plans to expand private enterprise in our local economy, Communities Agency. That has had not one, but two assisted by the regional growth fund and local enterprise cuts to its budget this year in just two months—more partnerships, will the Secretary of State explain how his than 10% of the money agreed and set aside to build Department plans to cushion that transition towards new, affordable housing. Why was it that no Minister private sector enterprise, so that the people of the made a statement in public or to this House about those north-west and Merseyside can keep their jobs and cuts? The details were snuck out on the HCA website. continue to contribute to economic growth? Will the Minister confirm now to the House that the £450 million cut in the HCA’s budget this year will mean that nearly 6,000 new affordable homes will not Mr Pickles: The north-west of England is, of course, be built and 5,000 house building jobs will go? a vibrant area full of people of enterprise. As my hon. Friend rightly says, the regional growth fund will provide Andrew Stunell: I have a lot of respect for the right targeted support to areas of deprivation, unlike the hon. Gentleman, but when it comes to counting, he is regional development agencies, which simply move one not quite so good. We need to understand the dire form of public money around to another public body. situation this country was in. Emergency action was We will ensure that private investment is brought in essential. However, my right hon. Friend the Minister and, in addition, we will have the local enterprise for Housing will shortly be able to give details of all the partnerships. She will also be aware that we will give developments that will go ahead, now that we have had national insurance incentives for firms in the north to a chance to assess the financial situation fully. create jobs, and extend small business rate relief to them. There will be diverse other measures. John Healey: I shall give the Minister the chance to put the record straight. There was no black hole and no Mr Speaker: Order. Today, questions and, in particular, house building commitments were made without the answers are rather long, and need to get shorter. 1077 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1078

Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab): With the scrapping Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): Anyone reading of the regional development agency and now—so we Question 8 on the Order Paper could be forgiven for understand—the Government office for the north-west thinking that what many Tories and Liberal Democrats under threat, what voice will there be for the north-west would like is a never-build-anything-anywhere policy. to secure co-ordinated investment for the region, in What assurance can the Minister give me that the both towns and the rural areas? natural nimby inclinations of so many on his Benches will not result in fewer affordable homes and fewer jobs Mr Pickles: The Government offices for the regions being provided in Lewisham East, where they are so are about the Government imposing their will on the desperately needed by my constituents? regions. We will be giving power back to local councils, local community groups and local entrepreneurs. Greg Clark: The hon. Lady may not have noticed, but the effect of the previous Government’s policy was to Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): Would reduce housing development, so that virtually none not scrapping the Government office for the north-west happened. The strategies that we have talked about—the mean north-west local authorities having to go cap in targets imposed—have deluded her into thinking that hand to each Whitehall Department? Would not such a targets are the same thing as building. However, things diktat be of a piece with his bludgeoning the Business have not happened that way and she should wake up to Secretary over scrapping regional development agencies? that. What has he to say to the former Tory leader from Trafford, Councillor Susan Williams, who asked: Housing Market Renewal “Where is the voice of the NW to government?” and then said that it was in “a void”? Would he not 9. Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): If he will take leave north-west local authorities swinging in limbo, steps to reduce expenditure by his Department’s with their economies disrupted by his cuts and no non-departmental public bodies on the housing market north-west body promoting major regenerational transport renewal pathfinder programme. [8508] projects? Is not his localism just a fraudulent— The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman must resume Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): his seat. That is now five questions. It is an abuse of the The housing market renewal programme was included procedures of the House when Members, on both sides, in the £6.2 billion of savings from Government spending ask questions that are simply too long. I want a short in this year, as announced on 24 May. The Regenerate answer from the Secretary of State please. Pennine Lancashire pathfinder has been consulted on the reductions in my hon. Friend’s area. Mr Pickles: No. Gordon Birtwistle: Although I welcome the HMR Planning pathfinder programme, which has delivered massive housing regeneration in many areas across the UK, 8. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): If he will including my constituency, will the Minister look into bring forward proposals to ensure that people are able both the system of passporting proposals for regeneration to prevent major planning proposals proceeding in and the funding stream, following Government approval, from the HCA to the local authorities? The present their areas. [8507] delivery quango, which sits between the HCA and the The Minister of State, Department for Communities local authorities, top-slices an average of 10% of the and Local Government (Greg Clark): All planning decisions funds available, which equates to approximately £40 million should be democratically legitimate. Following the for 2008-09, while delivering little benefit on the ground— revocation of the regional spatial strategies, local communities will determine most planning applications. Mr Speaker: Order. I think that we have heard enough. For major infrastructure projects, decisions will be taken on the basis of national planning statements, ratified by Andrew Stunell: I thank my hon. Friend, who I know this House, by Ministers accountable to this House. has done a lot of work in looking at the administrative costs of the process. One of the things that we will be Chris Heaton-Harris: One of the things that have examining closely is how those costs can be reduced and brought together communities in Daventry is their how local authorities can have more control over the campaigns against wind farm developments. Does the process. Minister accept that disempowering local communities is profoundly counter-productive and actually deepens Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): The planning disputes, rather than helps to resolve them? hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) raises an important question, but what is the Minister’s answer to Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is exactly right. If we the current Lib Dem leader of Burnley council, who has want to increase the contribution from renewable energy said of this Government’s financial settlement: in this country—as we do—we should look at what “We are a deprived borough but once again we are suffering. I happens on the continent, where they do not have the am disappointed and sick of us being kicked by budget cuts in poison in the planning system I mentioned. Those Burnley”? countries have community-owned renewable energy Is it not the case that the Minister has ensured that it is developments and they allow people to share in the the poorest and most deprived councils in this country proceeds. That is exactly what we will do. that are suffering the most? 1079 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1080

Andrew Stunell: I am disappointed with that. What Mr Pickles: It was never intended under the previous the Opposition have not appreciated is that my hon. Government and nor is it intended under this Government Friend the Member for Burnley made the very fair that all provision for Travellers should come out of point that far too much of the money is top-sliced and public funds. I am more concerned, I have to say, about siphoned off, and does not produce the renewal that it is health and education issues relating to Gypsies and supposed to. That is what we are committed to putting Travellers, which have been allowed to lapse so woefully right. under the previous Government. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The Secretary of State Travellers (Local Authority Powers) said that many of these Travellers are law-abiding people. That may well be true, but many of them are not. I am 10. Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): Whether he not worried only about Travellers on illegal sites. What plans to bring forward proposals to facilitate local about the so-called Travellers—even though they stay in authorities in moving Travellers on from private and the same place all the time—on legal sites who still public property. [8509] create a huge menace to the local community? What can my right hon. Friend do to make sure that local authorities 15. Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): If he will have the power to deal with these people, rather than take steps to accelerate the process for local authorities pussyfooting around with them as they tend to do? to gain possession of public land upon which there are unauthorised Traveller encampments. [8514] Mr Pickles: It is certainly our intention to ensure that planning regulations are properly enforced, but we are The Secretary of State for Communities and Local also seeking to increase social cohesion so that people, Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The Government will no matter what their background, are welcome in all ensure that, where local authorities have made appropriate communities. A deal has to be struck whereby we can provision for authorised sites in their area, reflecting assure the public that everyone is going to be treated genuine local need and historic demand, they will have fairly, in return for which we expect people to be treated stronger enforcement powers to deal with unauthorised fairly. encampments. We are reviewing how this can be achieved. Housing Benefit

Caroline Dinenage: Under the last Government, illegal 13. Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): What sites and caravans were increasingly tolerated, with discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for councils deciding not to seek their removal. Will the Work and Pensions on the effect on housing and levels Secretary of State please reassure me that Travellers will of homelessness of the proposed reduction in housing no longer be allowed to breach the planning rules that benefit levels. [8512] law-abiding home owners have to abide by? The Minister for Housing (Grant Shapps): Ministers Mr Pickles: We have to remember that a significant from this Department regularly meet their colleagues number of Gypsies and Travellers are themselves law- from other Departments. We are looking closely with abiding citizens. What we want to see is fair play within colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions at our planning system. The overwhelming majority of how to support implementation of the recently announced Travellers abide by the rules, but we will ensure that changes to housing benefit. those small minorities that do not are no longer encouraged to do so by the law. Ms Buck: Given the enormous upheaval that is likely to accrue from the cuts in housing benefit, will the Richard Graham: Twice in the last year, Travellers Minister give a guarantee to the House today that he have smashed through gates to invade Plock court—an will not weaken the safety net of homelessness legislation? important green space on the edge of my Gloucester Grant Shapps: I acknowledge the hon. Lady’s constituency. The process for moving Travellers on from considerable knowledge and interest in housing and public land is much longer than for moving them on matters of homelessness, which we have regularly debated. from private land. Does my right hon. Friend agree that I can provide the assurance that this Government will this disruption could be significantly reduced if the law take issues of homelessness and protection very seriously. for both were aligned? I have recently set up a cross-ministerial working group for the first time to bring Ministers together, and we Mr Pickles: We shall look towards speeding up the also have a discretionary fund, which we are expanding process, but it is important to understand that the to £40 million to assist in this way. operation of the law at the moment is predicated not on seeking easy resolution, but on conflict. What we are Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) threatened with as a result of the planning laws having (LD): Does the Minister accept that while we of course been allowed to slip is a genuine attack on social cohesion. want to stop rip-off landlords from exploiting the state Doing something about that is a priority for this and tenants and to stop preventing people from getting Government; that is why we seek to ensure fairness back to work because their rents are too high making it for all. impossible for them to come off benefits, we also need to ensure that no vulnerable person becomes homeless Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Where as a result of the changes? Will he and his colleagues in are these families to move to, given that the Government the Department for Work and Pensions meet a cross-party are cutting funding for public travelling community group of London MPs to ensure that the policy has the sites by £30 million? right objective and not an unfair one? 1081 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1082

Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for that the policy needs to protect the most vulnerable and Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): We to introduce fairness into the system. The expansion of have already scrapped the comprehensive area assessment housing benefit to £21 billion—a 50% expansion in the and regional spatial strategies, as well as removing bill—over just a 10-year period is unsustainable; it is ring-fencing from more than £1 billion of local government more than the police and universities budgets put together spending. We are currently inviting local government to and it simply has to be brought into line. It is not fair identify the statutory guidance, legislation and regulations that people can be in receipt of £2,000 a week to live in that it thinks should be removed, and we will go much areas of London that other people are unable to live in further by introducing a decentralisation and localism when they work. I am quite certain that Ministers will Bill later in the year. be very happy to meet such a group. Stephen Mosley: One consequence of reducing the Third Sector (Funding) administrative burden on local councils and freeing them to take more decisions locally will be to allow 19. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): What them to offer different levels of services from their assessment he has made of the effect on third sector neighbours. Does my hon. Friend agree that far from organisations of the reduction in local authority being a bad thing, that will allow good councils to funding announced on 10 June 2010. [8519] differentiate themselves from bad councils and allow local council tax payers the ultimate decision on the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for type of council they desire? Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): Councils have complete flexibility in where they find Robert Neill: Freedom for local authorities to respond savings to ensure that costs are reduced while they to the priorities and needs of their residents is absolutely continue to support key front-line services. The voluntary a good thing and is a top priority of this Government. sector is an important part of that. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): But what does the Toby Perkins: I am grateful to the Minister for his Minister say to local authorities such as mine that face a answer, but is not the reality that, as in Chesterfield, larger burden of in-year cutbacks than neighbouring many of our voluntary sector organisations rely on core authorities? What does he say about the additional funding from the local government sector, and that the burdens that he has put on to them by forcing them to cuts in the local government sector will inevitably lead cut previously agreed budgets with voluntary sector to a reduction in that core funding that will fundamentally organisations and local services, meaning more expensive undermine any possibility that the voluntary sector can ways of managing their budgets? play a part in this big society? Robert Neill: First, the hon. Lady forgets the financial Andrew Stunell: Well, it is not inevitable. I have just situation that we inherited—that is fundamental. Secondly, said that councils have complete flexibility in how they because we have removed ring-fencing and reduced the set priorities, and local authorities will need to prioritise. percentage of ring-fenced funding, we have made sure I say to the hon. Gentleman and the whole House that that local authorities have more flexibility in how they just as Ministers here have made sure that the £6.2 billion save money. Thirdly, despite our dire financial inheritance, reductions hit just as hard at the centre as on local we have ensured that no local authority would have to authorities, so local authorities need to have the same make a reduction of more than 2%. regard for the voluntary sector. Fiona Mactaggart: Slough is facing a reduction of 3.19%. Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): The voluntary sector in my constituency is, as I imagine is the case Mr Speaker: Order. We cannot have these sudden everywhere, extremely anxious about the impact that interventions when not expected and not in order, however reductions in local government funding will have on the frustrated people feel—and they do. service they can provide, and nowhere more so than in relation to infrastructure. What is the Minister’s attitude Regional Spatial Strategies to infrastructure bodies and how does he believe they should be funded? 22. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): What recent representations he has received on the Andrew Stunell: I certainly understand that anxiety. effects on local authorities of the abolition of regional The whole country is anxious about the financial spatial strategies. [8522] circumstances we face, both in the public finances and in the voluntary sector, and it will be extremely important The Minister of State, Department for Communities for partners to work together, including local authorities and Local Government (Greg Clark): Ihavereceiveda and the voluntary sector, to overcome those difficulties large number of letters and e-mails, the vast majority of in the very difficult circumstances we face. which have welcomed the end of top-down targets and the return of planning decisions to local communities Local Authorities (Administrative Burden) so that they can shape their own areas.

20. Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): What Harriett Baldwin: I thank the Minister on behalf of steps he is taking to reduce the administrative burden residents in West Worcestershire. I can assure him that placed on local authorities by central Government. councillors in my local area feel the same way. What [8520] advice would he give to them about developers who are 1083 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1084 now taking things that were rejected on the basis of the which will not now go ahead. What efforts did the Pickles letter to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate? Secretary of State make to persuade the Secretary of State for Education not to cut that programme? How Greg Clark: The Planning Inspectorate has received does he intend to stand up for local councils and guidance that the policy of the Government is clear and prevent his Department becoming the ministry of waste— needs to be taken into account in planning appeals. wasted council tax payers’ money on suspended schools projects, wasted council tax payers’ money as a result of Mr Speaker: Order. It is best on the whole to refer not the cuts that he has brought in this year, and wasted to the Pickles letter but to the Secretary of State’s letter, money on the opportunity to build new homes? and that is I think how we will do it. Mr Pickles: I hardly think that the former Secretary Topical Questions of State is in a position to talk about waste. We have already understood that he has virtually become the patron saint of internal decorators within the Department; T1. [8526] Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): If he will £2 million was spent on furnishing at a time when make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. councils were crying out for help. I did indeed speak to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education, The Secretary of State for Communities and Local and I was shocked to discover the amount of waste that Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I can assure you, Mr Speaker, was within that programme. I was shocked to discover that Mrs Pickles’ letters have far more impact. that the achievement of that programme seemed to have I am sure that the whole House will wish to pay made a single consultant a millionaire. Labour Members tribute to the two firefighters, Alan Bannon and James seemed quite happy to waste other people’s money, but Shears, who gave their lives in April in the line of duty I assure them that this coalition Government are about and whose memorial service was yesterday. saving money and are on the side of local councils. Since last month’s oral questions, I have waged war on the TLA—the Whitehall menace of the three-letter T2. [8527] Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What steps abbreviation. We have abolished the CAA, the IPC, is the Department taking to ensure that the planning the RDAs and the RSSs. We are giving powers back to process not only responds to the demands of local local people, replacing bureaucracy with democratic communities, but provides an efficient supply of accountability. We will be working with councils to housing and employment land? deliver an era of town hall transparency. My Department will practise what it preaches and we will be publishing The Minister of State, Department for Communities online our spending over £500. I am sure that the and Local Government (Greg Clark): We are getting rid shadow Secretary of State will be pleased to know that of the Soviet-style planning system—repealing Gosplan— we will be opening the books from April 2009. precisely so that local communities such as my hon. Friend’s can get together in the right way. For example, Tony Baldry: When the RDAs are scrapped, will there is no sense in linking his area with Hertford some of the money saved be available to help fund local because that is not a natural economic area and it is enterprise partnerships? For far too long, Banbury has difficult to plan employment in such a way.His community been at the edge of three RDAs. We want a local is now free to liaise with neighbouring authorities, as it enterprise partnership which puts Banbury where it always should have been. rightly belongs—at the heart of England. Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab): Mr Pickles: I have always felt that Banbury was The Government are already hitting hard new deal indeed at the heart of England. Of course, the local programmes that were designed to help some of our enterprise partnerships will give an opportunity for most deprived communities in areas such as Aston, local authorities, business and academic institutions to which is in my constituency. Is it true that the plan is coalesce around a genuine economic area. We will ensure now to cut off funding from the middle of the financial that they have an opportunity to bring prosperity to year—from this October—thereby sacking staff and that very fine town. damaging some of our most deprived communities?

Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): I Mr Speaker: I call the Minister. Any Minister. start by thanking the Secretary of State for his recognition of the two firefighters, Alan Bannon and James Shears, who died fighting the fire in Shirley Towers. Alan Bannon The Minister for Housing (Grant Shapps) rose— was a constituent of mine, as the Secretary of State knows, and I am grateful to the fire Minister, the Mr Speaker: Order. That was very unsatisfactory; I Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local think that I will have to add injury time. Let us hear it Government, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst from the Minister. (Robert Neill), for attending the memorial service yesterday. It was appreciated by everybody connected with the Mr Pickles: I wanted to answer it all the time. Hampshire fire and rescue service. This is about ensuring that local government finance On Tuesday this week, the Local Government is delivered fairly and straightforwardly. Given that we Association showed that the arbitrary and incompetent have been a bit slow in answering the hon. Lady, it is decision to suspend the Building Schools for the Future incumbent on me to say that if she wants to come and programme has cost local council tax payers in England see me—or I can come and see her—I will give her a full £162 million in spending on much-needed school projects answer. 1085 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1086

T3. [8528] Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): My T5. [8530] Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): constituency is home to Transition Town Totnes, which Today, ECPAT—End Child Prostitution, Child has a great interest in sustainable development. If the Pornography and the Trafficking of Children for planning process for community land trusts is to be Sexual Purposes—has, in association with The Body streamlined, provided that 90% of residents are in Shop, launched a nationwide petition calling for favour of a proposal, will the Department clarify how guardianship for children who have been trafficked. that 90% figure will be ascertained and how the Does the Secretary of State agree that that would help low-carbon building agenda will be upheld so that we stop the scandal of child sex slaves who have been put meet our commitments to cut emissions? into local government care being re-trafficked?

Grant Shapps: I will gladly answer my hon. Friend, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Mr Speaker. Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): The 90% threshold is subject to a simple referendum My hon. Friend draws attention to a new and important of the people in the local community, parish or village. responsibility that the Department is assuming. I am The idea is that the judgment should be made through keen to work with Members across the House on developing the ballot box by those who go to vote. The buildings appropriate policies. I look forward to discussing that themselves will be judged against the criteria of sustainability with him. codes 1 to 6, and the sustainability levels that will be required will be exactly the same as those for all buildings Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): It is always popular by 2016. for any Government to say that they will have a bonfire of quangos, but does the Secretary of State realise that Mrs Linda Riordan (Halifax) (Lab/Co-op): Will Ministers removing the Government office for the north-west tell me what steps they are taking to ensure that local removes support for the voluntary and community sector government regeneration projects in Halifax will still go and centralises power in Westminster? That is hardly ahead now that Yorkshire Forward has been abolished? “big society”; it is much more “very big Westminster.” How will the Department address that shortfall? Mr Pickles: I readily understand that the hon. Lady Mr Pickles: Of course, we will be bringing those has the disadvantage of being a Labour MP and is regeneration projects closer to the decisions, so I hope therefore incapable of understanding that this Government that the hon. Lady will have a big say on them. We are will give away power, or of understanding that localism kind of hoping that we will be able to involve the private will involve a constitutional shift in this country. We sector so that we are not just moving one amount of aim to give the people in towns and villages in the public money across to another receiver of such money. north-west more power. We will not repeat the mistakes of the Labour party by taking more power into Westminster. T4. [8529] Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Many of my constituents continue to be concerned that T6. [8531] George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): despite the exciting moves to localise planning In my conversations with planners and others over the decisions, developers and councils still will not listen to past week, there seemed to be some question as to them. What reassurance can Ministers give to local whether the recently announced changes to the communities that they are really back in the driving definitions of brownfield land and densities in seat? planning policy statement 3 prevent so-called garden- Greg Clark: They are back in the driving seat. Everything grabbing. Will the Minister please confirm that local that is needed to make plans that respond to local councillors in Meon Valley and elsewhere are now free communities is in place. The process will be buttressed to amend their planning policies on garden-grabbing in by strong financial incentives. I would expect that councils any way that they want, in whatever time frame they such as those in my hon. Friend’s area will want to take choose? up these powers in the interests of his constituents. Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. PPS3 Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): Some 50% of the has been revised with immediate effect, so those powers housing stock in several parts of my constituency is in are now available to his authority and every other the hands of private landlords. The previous Government authority in the country; they can decide the status of introduced selective licensing and other regulations to gardens as they see fit. try to clamp down on private landlords. Surely the next step is a national register for private landlords, so why Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): The will the Government not go ahead with that? Housing Minister has just put forward a written ministerial statement that allows the hundreds of park home residents Grant Shapps: I have to say to the hon. Gentleman, if in my constituency access to the Residential Property the next step was the registration of private landlords, Tribunal Service, and that is very welcome. Will he meet why was that not done in the past 13 years? The simple me to discuss how he plans to implement the consultation answer is that many landlords in this country are just outcomes, which specify that there should be a strict individuals who have literally one or two rooms to let. personal specification of “fit and proper person”, with Introducing yet another database to try to regulate that regard to park home site owners? Will he meet me would not have been the answer. HMO-ing is part of before the recess? the answer. That need not be blanket HMO-ing across the whole country, as introduced by the outgoing Grant Shapps: I will be delighted to meet the hon. Government on 6 April; we will make sure that HMO-ing Lady before the recess. She is right to say that the issue is effective and used only where required. of park home regulation is complex. I did indeed put 1087 Oral Answers15 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 1088 forward a written ministerial statement yesterday, which Diana R. Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): clearly outlined that we should be able to move to the Can one of the Ministers explain to me why requiring tribunal service to prevent park home owners from local authorities to publish expenditure of £500 or more having to refer to the courts, with all the cost and time will help to ease the administrative burden on them? that that entails. I share her concern and will be happy to meet her. Mr Pickles: We have decided to do so in the Department and, having gone through the process, I can say that it is T8. [8533] Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): easy to do and easy for local authorities. After all, May I take my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State Government Members are not frightened of the public, back to the issue of illegal Traveller sites? I face a real and it is the public who have a right to know. problem with such sites in my constituency of Stratford-on-Avon. I was pleased to hear him confirm Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): Is it that he will consider legislation to give councils more not extraordinary that, although hon. Members started power to deal with that blight. May I push him a little today’s proceedings with Prayers, as they have done for further, and ask when the people of Stratford-on-Avon 450 years, the Labour council in Enfield has followed can expect that legislation? the Labour council in Leicester by banning council prayers? Will my right hon. Friend reassure me that, under this Government, we will not marginalise faith in Mr Pickles: Of course, the main proposals will be in general and Christianity in particular from the public the localism Bill, which we hope to bring before the sphere and the big society? House this calendar year. We will, of course, also look carefully at planning guidance, but as I am sure that you Andrew Stunell: There is a place for faith in our will appreciate, Mr Speaker, I want to try to tackle the society, and if one looks throughout the United Kingdom issues together in one go, rather than in a piecemeal one finds that people of faith have played a huge part in way. our society. As it happens, immediately after this Question Time I am going across to Lambeth palace to meet the Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): What discussions Archbishop. has the Secretary of State had with his counterpart at the Department of Energy and Climate Change on who Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) would trump whom when we fail to meet our renewables (Lab): One estimate is that 200,000 people will be made target over the reintroduction of fast-track planning? homeless as a result of the changes to housing benefit, and at the same time funding for social housing is being pulled from areas such as Sunderland. Will the Minister Greg Clark: We constantly have discussions with our provide additional funding to local authority housing colleagues in DECC, and we are absolutely determined departments to deal with the significant increase in to meet those renewables targets. Unless we bring in a people who will be going to see them to register as system whereby communities can share in the benefits, homeless? we are unlikely to meet those targets, so we are urgently changing the system in order to get communities behind Grant Shapps: I thank the hon. Lady for that. She is these things. absolutely right to point out that there are pressures in the system, which have been created by a £155 billion Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): The coalition’s deficit and a housing benefit bill that has spiralled to policy of letting local authorities plan for local housing £21 billion. Unlike the previous Government, however, need is very welcome, but the previous Government’s we are taking steps to change that situation and, in requirement of them to display five years’ supply of particular, introducing a £40 million fund that local land for housing need before they could fight off authorities will be able to use to ameliorate the effects of overdevelopment on green spaces was lopsided, unfair some of the changes that are now coming in. and unsustainable. Will Ministers meet councillors and campaigners from Gloucestershire to hear the case for Several hon. Members rose— abolishing it? Mr Speaker: Order. Because there was a little delay a Greg Clark: I should be very happy to meet my hon. few moments ago, I did allow a bit of injury time, but I Friend and his colleagues. am afraid that all good things must come to an end. 1089 15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1090

Business of the House televised speech on the future of higher education policy. He did make an apology, it is true—not for ignoring the 11.32 am House of Commons, but for the fact that details of his Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab): Will policy had been leaked. He shrugged that off by saying the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business? that leaks are part of public life. When the Labour Government launched a review of The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George student finance, there was extensive involvement of the Young): The business for the week commencing 19 July Opposition, including an agreement on the review’s will include: terms of reference. We have seen none of that in the MONDAY 19 JULY—Second Reading of the Academies run-up to today’s announcement. The Business Secretary Bill [Lords]. At 10 pm the House will be asked to agree is trying to say that the policy is not really new, but the all outstanding estimates. coalition agreement said explicitly that the Government TUESDAY 20 JULY—Proceedings on the Consolidated would wait for the Browne report before reviewing Fund (Appropriation) Bill, followed by conclusion of future policy. Surely the future of student finance should proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 4); to follow, the be about what is best for students and universities, not House will consider a motion relating to information what keeps the peace in the coalition. for Back Benchers on statements. The subject for that Can the Leader of the House say when the Business debate was nominated by the Backbench Business Secretary will come here to tell us exactly what his Committee. proposals mean? Will he undertake to remind Secretaries WEDNESDAY 21 JULY—Proceedings on the Academies of State that Evan Davis, James Naughtie and Sarah Bill [Lords] (Day 1). Montague, admirable though they are, are not Members of Parliament, and that John Humphrys is not the THURSDAY 22 JULY—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 2). Speaker? It would be handy if Cabinet members understood the distinction between a BBC studio and the Chamber The provisional business for the week commencing of the House of Commons. 26 July will include: I am not sure whether the Leader of the House is MONDAY 26 JULY—Conclusion of proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 3). expecting to have to make time in the House for any more apologies over the next week or so, but perhaps he TUESDAY 27 JULY—Business to be nominated by the will consider dividing Prime Minister’s questions into Backbench Business Committee. The House will not 15 minutes for answering questions and 15 minutes for adjourn until the Speaker has signified Royal Assent. apologising for all the misleading statistics that the Colleagues will also wish to know that, subject to the Prime Minister has been using and all the questions progress of business, the House will rise for the summer that he has been dodging. That could include, for example, recess on Tuesday 27 July and return on Monday apologising for using figures from the Office for Budget 6 September. Responsibility, which Sir Alan Budd said was inappropriate. The House will rise again for the conference recess on The Prime Minister could apologise for telling Parliament Thursday 16 September and return on Monday 11 October. that violent crime had doubled under Labour, especially I should also like to inform the House that the as Sir Michael Scholar, chair of the UK Statistics business in Westminster Hall for 22 July will be: Authority, has made it clear that there is no basis whatever for that assertion. Today’s figures show that THURSDAY 22 JULY—A debate on national lottery reform. crime is at its lowest level since records began, thanks to the Labour Government. Ms Winterton: I thank the Leader of the House for The Prime Minister could also apologise for dodging the business and very much welcome the first debate the question—not once, but three times—on whether that the Backbench Business Committee has initiated, the Government were going to abolish the two-week on ministerial statements. I am very hopeful that it will cancer guarantee. Can the Leader of the House tell us provide an opportunity for Back Benchers to examine when the House can expect a proper answer, in this closely the right hon. Gentleman’s leak prevention strategy. Chamber, on that guarantee—not in interviews to the As the Leader of the House knows, we Opposition media or in unattributable briefings from Downing Members had high hopes that he would be able to solve street, but in a clear statement to Parliament about a the mystery of why Conservative and Liberal Democrat guarantee that he surely recognises saves lives? Patients, Secretaries of State seem addicted to leaking major doctors and nurses need to know whether the guarantee announcements to the media rather than announcing is in place and they deserve an apology from the Prime them to the House. I had such confidence in the right Minister because he has kept them in the dark about it. hon. Gentleman’s investigative powers that I even likened him to Sherlock Holmes; after the events of this week, Sir George Young: There is quite a lot there to respond however, I am afraid that it is more a case of Inspector to. On the Backbench Business Committee, I welcome Clouseau than Sherlock Holmes. the debate that is taking place on Tuesday, but I have to I fear that the leak prevention strategy will have to be say to the right hon. Lady that it is no thanks to the consigned to the dustbin of history unless drastic action Labour Government that we are having that Committee is taken. After all, the Secretary of State for Health gave at all. At the end of the last Parliament, they consistently at least three interviews to the media, including an refused to make the time available to establish the appearance on “The Andrew Marr Show”, before coming Backbench Business Committee. If we are in apology to the House to announce his £80 billion gamble with mode, it would have been appropriate for her to have the NHS. This morning, we heard the Secretary of State apologised for the failure of the outgoing Labour for Business, Innovation and Skills making a major Government to set up that Committee. 1091 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1092

[Sir George Young] Sir George Young: I think that my hon. Friend speaks for Members on both sides of the House. At my advice I welcome that debate and hope that it will be well bureau last Saturday, I discovered that the owner of an attended. There is a serious issue for the House about Indian restaurant who had advised his customers not to how we get the balance right between what Ministers park in the car park, where they might be clamped, had can say outside the House and inside the House. The been taken to court by the car-clamping firm and sued motion rightly refers not only to the past few weeks, but for loss of trade. Happily, the restaurant owner won the to a period that includes the last Labour Government. I case, but it underlines the need to have another look at welcome the proposal in the motion that the process the regime that governs car clampers. should be looked at by the Procedure Committee to see whether we can come up with a sensible concordat that Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): When can we have is acceptable to the House and liveable with by the a debate on the lamentable state of the Afghan national Government, and that enables us to have a set of rules army to establish that the threat to the safety of our that we can all observe. troops comes not from a single rogue soldier but from On health, if the right hon. Lady looks at the coalition an entire rogue army? agreement, she will see that much of what was in the Health Secretary’s statement on Monday was in that Sir George Young: The Prime Minister made a statement agreement. The proposals had been been mentioned in on Afghanistan last week. We want to keep the House Health questions and in debates in the House. There regularly informed on progress in Afghanistan, and I was no leak of the health White Paper. hope that there will be an opportunity, if not before the House rises, then perhaps when we come back, for a As for the Business Secretary, he went out of his way further update on the progress being made, including in to explain that there was no policy change. I watched relation to the hon. Gentleman’s point. his speech on television, and he made it absolutely clear that he wanted Lord Browne, who is conducting a Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): Is my right review, and whose terms of reference were set up by the hon. Friend aware that the coalition Government have outgoing Labour Government, to include the option of cancelled the proposed 2010 review of the smoking a graduate tax. There has been no policy announcement. ban? In view of that, may we have an early debate in When the Government have a policy on how higher Government time on the effects that the smoking ban, education is funded, the House will be informed and in its current form, is having on our pubs and clubs, there will be an opportunity to cross-examine the relevant which are still closing at an alarming rate? Secretary of State. However, there has been no policy announcement whatsoever on the funding of higher Sir George Young: I should have known that that had education. been announced, but I have to say to my right hon. I think that the right hon. Lady will find that Sir Michael Friend that I was not aware of it. I will raise his point Scholar has had an opportunity to admonish those on with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for both sides of the House about misuse of crime statistics. Health and ask him to take the matter up in the appropriate My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is considering place. how crime statistics should be collected and published in future, and we are working with the UK Statistics Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): Can the Leader Authority and others to consider the matter carefully. I of the House explain why we are rushing through the welcome the reduction in crime—a trend that started in Academies Bill when no consultation has taken place 1995 and has been replicated in many other western with parents, with governor groups or, in particular, European countries—but the level of crime is still too with staff? The consultation period will apparently be high, and we must drive it down. during the school holidays when people either will not The right hon. Lady asked about the cancer guarantee. be in the country or will not be getting paid. Surely The revision to the NHS operating framework in June there is no need to rush this through, so why is that removed targets on the NHS that were without clinical happening. justification. The cancer waiting time targets are clinically justified and have been retained. Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman is referring to the Academies Bill.

Several hon. Members rose— Mr Anderson: Yes, that’s what I said.

Mr Speaker: Order. A great many right hon. and hon. Sir George Young: I believe we have offered the Members are seeking to catch my eye. In order to House adequate time to deal with the Bill. It will be accommodate them, I require brevity, a textbook example taken on the Floor of the House and additional time is of which will now be provided by Mr Lee Scott. being made available for Members to discuss it. It has also been through the other place, so there have been opportunities for the public to comment on it since its Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con): Thank you, introduction there. Mr Speaker. Will the Leader of the House speak to the Home Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): Will the Leader of the Secretary about bringing forward a Bill to stop illegal House require a Minister from either the Department clampers, who are responsible for a blight on our country for Business, Innovation and Skills or the Treasury to that is spreading like wildfire through all constituencies come before the House to answer questions about why and causing great grief to constituents? the South West of England regional development agency, 1093 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1094 which is due to be abolished, has announced this week Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): On 5 July, the the halting of vital economic development projects in Government announced through a written ministerial the European convergence programme in Cornwall in statement a further £1 billion of in-year cuts to education spite of the fact that no UK Exchequer money is capital. I asked the Education Secretary about that on required for those projects to proceed? 12 July, and I have found out that last night, the Department published the detail of those cuts on its Sir George Young: I understand the importance of website. May we have a debate in Government time those projects to the south-west, and of course I will before the recess so that all hon. Members can work out make inquiries as to why they have apparently been and talk about the effects that those education capital abandoned, particularly if, as the hon. Gentleman says, cuts, which are being made to fund the free schools there was no call on Exchequer funds to enable them to programme, will have on the education of the children go ahead. in our communities?

Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): Eighty hours of Sir George Young: I understand that there will be a rioting; a pipe bombing; three police officers shot; debate in Westminster Hall next Wednesday on Building 80 police officers injured; the attempted hijacking of Schools for the Future, so I hope the hon. Lady will the Belfast to Dublin express railway—when will the have an opportunity to raise her concern. In the meantime Secretary of State for Northern Ireland come to the I will alert Ministers in the Department for Education Dispatch Box to speak about what he and the House of the particular concern that she has mentioned. can do to help bring calm back to the streets of Northern Ireland, and when will the Select Committee on Northern Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): May I ask the Ireland Affairs meet to help address those matters so Leader of the House for a statement on the progress of that the House can play its part in the affairs of part of clearing Parliament square of the demonstrations? the United Kingdom?

Sir George Young: I understand the anxiety that the Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend hon. Gentleman has expressed. The violence that has for that question. As he knows, the Mayor of London is happened in the past three days is wholly unacceptable taking action to clear the square, and I understand that and has no place in a modern, progressive society, and the decision of the Court of Appeal will be announced the people responsible must not be allowed to drag tomorrow. Any enforcement action will then be down to Northern Ireland back into the past. Many of the issues the enforcement officers of the court. We have to strike that he refers to are of course devolved and not the a balance between the right to protest and the imperative responsibility of the Secretary of State. It is important to maintain what I think is one of the key heritage sites that those who try to create and exploit community in the whole world, namely Parliament square, with the tensions are not allowed to put the future at risk. I Houses of Parliament, Westminster abbey, Whitehall welcome the statement made by First Minister Peter and the Supreme Court around it. My own view is that Robinson, who has said: the square is defiled by a shanty town and we should try to restore it to the green that used to be there. “There is no excuse and no place for violence in a civilised society”. Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): Three The hon. Gentleman will also have seen the statement weeks ago, in response to a question, the Leader of the by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who House spoke about meetings between the Deputy Prime said: Minister and Sheffield Forgemasters. I have received a “The Chief Constable and the Justice Minister should be justly letter from the Deputy Prime Minister, who is keen to proud of the incredibly brave men and women of the PSNI who get rid of any confusion. Has he also contacted the held the line last night in the face of a sustained and violent assault”. Leader of the House to enable him to correct the record? When does the Leader of the House expect the Deputy Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): We Prime Minister to correct what he said about meeting recently had an excellent debate in Westminster Hall on the chief executive of Sheffield Forgemasters? supporting carers, but sadly had time only to touch on the important issue of dementia. Given that one in Sir George Young: I understand that there has been a three people will die from dementia, will the Leader of meeting between the two. Next week there is an the House consider holding a debate specifically on Adjournment debate on Sheffield Forgemasters, which supporting the social care and welfare of those suffering would be the appropriate time to raise the concern that from it? the hon. Lady has just uttered.

Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): A few days and congratulate her on her election as vice-chair of the ago, there was a report that a Cabinet Minister, no less, all-party group on dementia. Raising the quality of care had compared the cost of Britain’s future aircraft carriers for people who suffer from dementia is a priority for with the number of children who could be educated this Government. Some £8.2 billion is being spent, but worldwide for that money. May we have a statement we need to ensure that it is spent effectively and that we from the Secretary of State for Defence, explaining the break down the barrier that has often existed between role of Britain’s armed forces in general, and the Royal health on the one hand and social care on the other. We Navy and aircraft carriers in particular, in humanitarian are in the process of scrutinising the provision of dementia intervention worldwide and the protection of our interests services across the country. The results will be available at home and abroad, and the fact that the Royal Navy in October, and those data will drive forward action to has an important function to fulfil that should not be accelerate improvements in dementia care. offset against other causes, no matter how worthy? 1095 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1096

Sir George Young: My hon. Friend makes a forceful debate on the distribution of Royal Mail jobs, particularly point. He knows that traditionally several debates take when we have a melée of a debate about privatisation, place about our armed forces, which will now be the so that the 600 workers for Crewe’s second largest responsibility of the Backbench Business Committee. employer get the attention that they deserve? He will have heard that I have not announced a debate on the particular important issue that he raised between Sir George Young: I commend my hon. Friend’s now and the summer recess. Doubtless, the Chairman actions to protect local jobs and I have read his comment of the Backbench Business Committee has noted that on ConservativeHome, which records his concern about as a bid and there will, of course, be opportunities to the Crewe sorting office. I have no time for a debate cross-question Defence Ministers, though I see that will between now and the summer recess, but legislation not happen until 13 September. about Royal Mail has been trailed in the Queen’s Speech, Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Given and that may give him an opportunity to press for the that I failed to get an Adjournment debate, will the assurances that he seeks. Leader of the House allocate time to discuss the widespread concerns raised by hon. Members about the structure, Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): There scope and future funding of the independent panel are growing concerns that, despite declaring himself the reviewing documentation about the Hillsborough disaster fourth Minister in the Department of Energy and Climate in 1989? Change as a symbol of his personal commitment to tackling climate change, the Prime Minister is already Sir George Young: I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman looking for a pretext to row back from the obligation to has not been successful in getting an Adjournment get the renewable heat incentive up and running by next debate on that subject. I can only suggest that, if he April. Will the Leader of the House ask the Prime continues to apply, his number may come up one week. Minister whether he will come to the House to make a I am afraid that I cannot find time between now and the statement to assure us all that there is no rowing back, summer recess, but if Tuesday 27 July follows the usual and that the obligation will be fulfilled? It is crucial for pattern, and there is an Adjournment debate during our renewable energy target. which various subjects are raised, he may find it possible to share his concern then and press Ministers for the Sir George Young: I think that that question would be information that he wants. more appropriately put to Ministers at the Department David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Has the Leader of Energy and Climate Change, who, I hope, can give of the House considered the possibility of legislation if the hon. Lady the assurance that she seeks. They will be the appeal about Parliament square fails? What will he before the House on Thursday 9 September. do about the lone protester? Would not it be better if Parliament had authority over Parliament square? Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): May I ask my right hon. Friend for a debate, for which Sir George Young: I think that somebody made the legislation clearly provides, but that he seems not to same suggestion 10 years ago, and we legislated but it wish to have on the Floor of the House, namely on did not work. That is why we are where we are. It makes motion 16 on the Order Paper about the new members sense to await the Court of Appeal decision before of the Electoral Commission? Motion 8 on delegated considering fresh legislation. In the meantime, Mr Haw legislation in his name seems determined to remove the is allowed to continue to protest, so long as—speaking subject from the Floor of the House of Commons, from memory—he remains on the pavement. Whether where it was originally intended to be debated. May I it would be appropriate to legislate just to deal with invite him to reconsider so that we can have a debate Mr Haw is something on which the House would like to about the new Electoral Commissioners? reflect. Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Given that Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. the Minister for Police told the House that he did not Clearly, we want to make progress on appointing the expect any police officers’ jobs to be lost through the new members of the Electoral Commission. Of course, cuts but that the former chief constable of Gloucestershire the House is entitled to scrutinise the proposals that are is reported to have said that thousands of police officers’ on the Order Paper, either by debate on the Floor of the jobs will be lost as a result of the cuts, may we have a House or through the appropriate Committee. debate on the Government’s dodgy assessments? Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): Given that many Sir George Young: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, people in the country are having to take a pay cut, and we had a debate yesterday on precisely that subject. My that the coalition Government wish to reduce the cost right hon. Friend the Minister for Police drew attention of politics, will the Leader of the House look at early-day to the failure of the previous Home Secretary—now the motion 453? shadow Home Secretary—to make any commitment about retaining police numbers. He was asked on 20 April [That this House recognises that the economic situation if he could guarantee that there would no reduction in means that many people are taking pay cuts; acknowledges police numbers and he said no. that the Government has stated that it wants to reduce the cost of politics; appreciates the work that Select Committees Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): do but notes with alarm that there are 35 such committees So that areas already hard hit by the Labour party’s where the Chair can receive £14,582 a year on top of their broken promises on moving public sector jobs to the Parliamentary salary, a total of £510,370 a year; and north do not suffer any more, may we find time for a believes that this cost is becoming untenable.] 1097 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1098

Will he consider holding a debate on the fact that Select British public have a fundamental right to know how their Committee Chairs are paid £14,500 over and above taxes are spent by Government departments, and that their MP’s salary? No matter how good a job Select Freedom of Information requests are being sent to every Committees do, that might be an opportunity to review department which has refused to answer; and finally notes whether such payments are tenable under the current that the £115 million spent by the Department for Work economic circumstances. and Pensions under the previous administration on management conferences and external meetings appears Sir George Young: We had quite a long debate about to be a gross waste of taxpayers’ money, given that the that in the previous Parliament, and the House decided public debt increased to over £900 billion in early 2010.] that it made sense to have an alternative career structure May we have an urgent debate on Government waste, in the House so that the Government did not hoover up given that the Department for Work and Pensions revealed all the talent on the Back Benches. A salary for Select to me in a written answer that it spent £115 million Committee Chairmen was seen as part of the development going to conferences in the past 10 years? of an alternative career. We have no plans to change the remuneration of Select Committee Chairmen. Speaking Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend from memory, I think that that is now a responsibility for identifying areas in which central Government can of the Senior Salaries Review Body. reduce the cost of administration. I see that his early-day Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Will the motion does indeed identify some very large sums of Leader of the House find some way to mark the first money that have been spent on conferences and external motion that the Backbench Business Committee, which meetings. I will communicate with my right hon. Friend is an achievement of the Government’s, has tabled? the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General and get a response on the issues my hon. Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I Friend raises. propose to respond to the debate myself—I am not sure that that goes quite as far as she hoped. It would be Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ impertinent of me to suggest that you might want to be Co-op): We have heard warm words from both coalition in the Chair to mark that historic occasion, Mr Speaker. parties about mutualism and how to involve communities. If that is an impertinence, I apologise. However, it is Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate on important that Back Benchers of all parties show support the role of football and other supporters trusts, and the for the concept of a Back-Bench Committee choosing Government’s attitude towards them, given the uncertainty its own subjects, and demonstrate that support by attending in the written answers I have so far received from the and seeking to take part in the debate. Department for Culture, Media and Sport?

Mr Speaker: The Leader of the House is never Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear of the uncertainty impertinent, and I can tell him and the House that to which the hon. Gentleman refers, and I will of course nothing would more readily warm the cockles of my contact my colleagues at DCMS to see what they can do heart than being in the Chair for the debate. to resolve it.

Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): For Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): The understandable reasons, the Leader of the House may European investigation order would allow police and not be aware of the growing international concern prosecutors throughout Europe to order British police about the health of democracy in the Maldives. Opposition to collect and hand over evidence. Fair Trials International Members of Parliament there have been arrested, the and Justice are concerned that the measure would put judiciary are on strike and the army has been deployed great pressure on our hard-pressed police forces. Britain on the streets of the capital. Will he speak to colleagues has until 28 July to decide whether to opt in or, like in the Foreign Office and invite them to make a Denmark, to opt out. Will the Leader of the House statement—written or otherwise—on what they are doing indicate when the Government’s decision will be made, to encourage a return to proper democratic processes in and will the House have an opportunity to debate the the Maldives? measure in advance?

Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman makes a Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. serious point about what is happening in the Maldives. I He says that the Government must decide by 28 July will communicate with the Foreign Secretary and see what action to take. I will certainly ascertain from the whether there is any way he can communicate to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office or the Home Office, House the action that the Government are taking in whichever Department is the appropriate one, what response the serious concerns that he expresses. action they propose to take in response to my hon. Friend’s question. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Has the Leader of the House seen early-day motion 454 on the cost of Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): The Government conferences? Leader of the House may be aware of a campaign that I [That this House notes that the Department for Work have been running for about 12 months on the need for and Pensions spent £115 million on management conferences a fair deal for service people returning from theatres of and external meetings between 2000 and 2010; further war. In that regard, the Government have acknowledged notes that most departments have refused to supply similar that much more needs to be done. I have applied for figures in answer to written questions, arguing that statistics Adjournment debates, but so far I have been unlucky. on conferences are not collated centrally and could be May we have a debate in Government time on this very obtained only at disproportionate cost; believes that the important issue? 1099 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1100

Sir George Young: Again, I am sorry that the hon. Mr Phil Woolas (Oldham East and Saddleworth) Gentleman has been unsuccessful in the ballot, but he (Lab): The Leader of the House is an admired Member may have an opportunity on the last Tuesday before the of the House, and he acknowledged this morning that recess to raise his concern. The Government take seriously crime fell under the Labour Government. I am very our responsibilities under the military covenant. The grateful to him for putting that matter right, but he also issue that he raises may fall within that, and I will share said that Sir Michael Scholar had admonished the his concerns with the Defence Secretary. Prime Minister for misrepresenting the crime figures. What action does he intend to take on that? Is he Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): May we have a debate embarrassed by the Prime Minister’s mistake, or are we on the House of Commons Library? I understand that to assume that there is a deliberate strategy to misrepresent it intends to stock only one copy of Lord Mandelson’s independent statistics? new book, which I suspect will have to be chained to the wall. Many colleagues on both sides of the House will Sir George Young: I return the compliment: the hon. want to know which members of the Cabinet of the Gentleman too is a much-admired Member of the previous Labour Government thought which other House. If he looks at exactly what I said in response to members of the previous Labour Government were the right hon. Member for Doncaster Central mad, bad and dangerous, so will my right hon. Friend (Ms Winterton), he will see that I did not use the words ensure that the Library has a sufficiency of copies of he says I used. He very much paraphrased what I said, if the book so that we can all read it before the recess? I may say so. I believe I said that Sir Michael Scholar had admonished both sides of the House for misuse of Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. statistics. We are of course trying to cut the cost of politics, and I In response to the hon. Gentleman’s question, I would am not sure whether buying many copies of Lord say that the credibility of crime statistics is an issue. At Mandelson’s book is compatible with that policy. I was various times, various parties have used whichever set of interested to read today in The Guardian, which costs a statistics has best suited their case. In order to bring lot less than Lord Mandelson’s book, this paragraph: that debate to a satisfactory conclusion, my right hon. “Darling told…Brown…he was being ‘ludicrously over-optimistic, Friend the Home Secretary is engaged in a dialogue to not only about growth prospects, but also about Britain’s ability find an agreed set of statistics that commands public to support such a large and expanding deficit’”. confidence and represents what is happening in the real I entirely agree that all Members of the House should world. be aware of that and other relevant paragraphs. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Will the Leader Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): of the House grant a debate on companies that buy up Yesterday during Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime freeholds for properties, and then use clauses within Minister, in common with all Ministers in his Government, them to force all leaseholders to insure their properties presented an image of housing benefit claimants living through a sole provider at an extortionate rate, or buy in vast properties and paying rents of £1,000 a week. He out the freehold? That is becoming an increasing problem and the Government must know that nothing could be in my constituency, particularly in the town of Nelson, further from the truth. May we please have an urgent where companies are buying up old ground rents, invoking debate in Government time on the Government’s monstrous those clauses and sending threatening letters to my housing benefit proposals? If they are not reconsidered, constituents. they will not save any money but they will certainly put thousands of families on the street. Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who raises an important issue. He will know that when Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Lady’s leaseholders have reason to doubt the reasonableness of concern. As a former London Member, I know the an insurance premium, they have a right to go to the price of rents in the city. I am not sure whether she was leasehold valuation tribunal, which can resolve the matter. at Communities and Local Government questions, which In the meantime, he might like to refer his constituents has just concluded, but I understand that London MPs to Lease, which is an independent, Government-funded have been offered a meeting with the Minister for Housing organisation that gives advice to leaseholders who face to discuss exactly the issues she raises. I very much hope the sorts of problems facing his constituents that she can attend that meeting. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): After the tragic Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I hope the events in Cumbria and Northumberland, may we have Leader of the House agrees that a modern Parliament a debate on firearms? As the Leader of the House might should be family friendly. When will he be in a position know, this week the BBC obtained statistics showing to publish the dates of the Christmas and February that 1,000 under-18s have shotgun licences, and that breaks so that those of us who have children can align people as young as 10 can obtain one. When can we our breaks with school holidays? have a debate on that important issue?

Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Sir George Young: After my right hon. Friend the He makes an ambitious request, because it was only a Home Secretary made her statement on Cumbria, she few minutes ago that I announced the dates of the indicated that it would be appropriate to have a debate summer recess and that of our October return. I understand on firearms legislation. I think it would make sense to his impatience. We want to give the House and those await the outcome of the police report on the Cumbrian who work here certainty on the dates, and I will announce incident, but I hope a debate on firearms will be possible the dates of the Christmas recess as soon as I can. when we have all the relevant information. 1101 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1102

Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Motion 7 on Will the Leader of the House reconsider his answer to the Order Paper invites the House to agree to a summer my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton recess starting on 27 July, which means that we will miss (Mr Raab)? The European investigation order allows Prime Minister’s questions on 28 July. I know that the foreign authorities to give instructions to the British Leader of the House was intending that the House police and allows foreign police forces to operate within should rise on 29 July. Has he been approached by the the United Kingdom. That is a matter for decision by Opposition Whips’ office to adjourn on 27 July to avoid the House of Commons, not simply for notification by the acting leader of the Labour party taking another a Department of state. battering at PMQs?

Sir George Young: I understand my right hon. Friend’s Sir George Young: I agree with my hon. Friend that concern. I think I said in response to my hon. Friend my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is an outstanding that I would contact the relevant Department and see performer at Prime Minister’s questions and regularly what action the Government propose to take or recommend wins the exchanges. We are rising on 27 July partly to the House before 28 July, which I understand is the because—as my hon. Friend will know—those who operative date. represent Scottish seats have a different configuration of school holidays, and it was our judgment that we had Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): The whole House is made sufficient progress to recommend rising on that fully aware of the Government’s vehement opposition date as opposed to the original, provisional plans for to quangos. Will the Leader of the House make a 29 July. I wonder whether my hon. Friend is planning to statement on how many quangos and super-quangos oppose the motion— will be established as a result of the announcements on the NHS and education, and of all announcements Mr Bone indicated assent. during the Budget and since? Sir George Young: I am dismayed to see that. Sir George Young: I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is referring to quangos or commissions, but Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): May it is certainly the Government’s intention to end up with we have a debate on the role of the private sector in many fewer quangos than we inherited from the outgoing area-wide regeneration projects? In that debate we could Government—and quangos that cost a lot less. discuss why Tory-Lib Dem controlled Birmingham council is spurning just such a project in the Stirchley area of my constituency, risking years of blight and costing us Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): May I echo the call 300 badly needed jobs. from my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) for a debate on the effect of the smoking Sir George Young: It sounds to me as though that is ban on pubs and clubs? The Government are pushing a an appropriate subject for an Adjournment debate or a freedom Bill through Parliament, and I hope that my debate in Westminster Hall. I believe in localism and right hon. Friend the Leader of the House will use his local government, and if that is what the local authority influence to ensure that the freedom of people to smoke wants to do, we should be cautious about second-guessing in public places, and of pubs and clubs to allow people it here. to smoke on what are their own premises, will be included in the Bill. Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con): Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate Sir George Young: I have to disappoint my hon. following this morning’s Care Quality Commission report Friend. I supported the smoking legislation and I into out-of-hours GP services, so that we may learn the encouraged the Government to remove the exemption lessons from the unlawful killing of my constituent for pubs that did not sell food. It was a sensible thing to Mr David Gray and ensure that EU-qualified doctors do and I stand behind that policy. The benefit to public working here are both medically competent to use NHS health has been welcome. I will ask my right hon. equipment and able to speak English to their patients? Friend the Secretary of State about his intentions in relation to the specific issue that my hon. Friend mentioned. Sir George Young: My hon. Friend raises an important issue, and I suspect that he may have seen the written Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): May ministerial statement this morning commenting on the we have an opportunity to debate the perplexing decision CQC’s report. Out-of-hours care needs urgent reform by the Minister for Housing to remove the powers of and GPs are best placed to ensure that patients get the local authorities to regulate houses in multiple occupation? care they need when they need it. That is what our Many of my constituents in Nottingham are very worried health reforms will deliver. that the freedom that local authorities have to grant planning permission will now be centralised in the Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): The Deputy Department—an odd attitude for supposedly localist Prime Minister has admitted that there was no prior Ministers to take. consultation with the devolved Administrations about the date of the alternative vote referendum. As we Sir George Young: We have just had an hour’s worth know, it will clash with the elections for the devolved of questions to the Minister responsible, and I understand Administrations. May we have a debate on procedures that the issue was raised in that time. The hon. Gentleman that might be established to provide an effective dialogue may therefore have to wait for another round of DCLG between the Government and the devolved Administrations Ministers in order to press the matter. to ensure that such a mix-up does not happen again? 1103 Business of the House15 JULY 2010 Business of the House 1104

Sir George Young: I am not sure that it is fair to Sir George Young: I am cautious about commenting describe it as a mix-up. The Deputy Prime Minister has on the particular incident to which the hon. Gentleman been giving evidence all morning to a Select Committee, refers, but I understand his concern. I will contact and I am sure that there was an opportunity to raise this Home Office Ministers later today to see whether I can issue. When the AV and boundaries legislation comes get a reply to the issue he has just raised. before the House, there will be ample opportunity to explore these issues in more depth. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): As a result of all the changes in the Budget, and those announced over the Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): The Government have last few weeks, to health, education and local government, said that they want to raise 20% of the money to cut the how many commissions are being set up in the next few deficit from tax rises and 80% from budget cuts. The months? Leader of the House has announced that on Monday at 10 pm without any debate we will agree all outstanding Sir George Young: If the hon. Gentleman tables a estimates, which is how we decide how much money we question, I am sure that he will get an adequate answer— will give to each Department. If four times as much [Interruption.] I think I have already answered a question money is to come from cuts as from tax rises, will he in relation to the coalition agreement, and he will find ensure that we have four times as much time to debate an answer that addresses the commissions set up there. those cuts, and on amendable motions? The experience If he tables an appropriate question about any commissions of the last two weeks has shown that when cuts are set up after that, I am sure he will get an accurate and pushed through with more haste than is strictly speaking prompt reply. necessary, the House does not carry the nation with it. Also, which estimates are yet outstanding and to be Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): Thank agreed on Monday? you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity briefly to respond to the bids for time made by Members to the Sir George Young: If the hon. Gentleman looks at Backbench Business Committee. We will shortly be Standing Order No. 55, he will see that that is the producing an outline of how we intend to hear bids in procedure under which we deal with all outstanding public from Back-Bench Members for slots of time that estimates. I agree entirely that the House should have the Committee has for them. adequate opportunity to question the Government on I want to mark the historic event next Tuesday and spending decisions. We have the Treasury Committee, encourage all Back-Bench Members to put their names the departmental Select Committees and debates on the down to speak. It is historic, because it will be the first Budget. We may also have debates on any public expenditure time that Back-Bench Members will have chosen a decisions that are taken. If the hon. Gentleman has subject for debate in Back-Bench time. I hope that the better ways to hold the Government to account on hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) financial measures, I would be interested to hear from will be the first to put her name down to speak, and I him. In the past, we may not have spent enough time would like the Leader of the House to confirm his looking at such issues; perhaps we should refocus on answer to her in which he said that he will be present at, them and respond to, that debate, which will hopefully be opened and closed by Backbench Business Committee Diana R. Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): members. We hope to start at seven and finish at 10, but I am concerned about the hasty way in which legislation obviously that remains to be seen. We will be considering is moving through the House. Have the coalition the pre-recess Adjournment debate and the defence Government now abandoned pre-legislative scrutiny days, which are now part of Back-Bench time. Again, and evidence sessions before Bills go to Committee? however, I would be grateful if the Leader of the House could confirm that he will be present to respond. Sir George Young: The answer is no, but, as she will know, if a Bill is taken on the Floor of the House, there Sir George Young: I welcome how the hon. Lady is is no slot for public evidence taking. I want to publish approaching her new and important responsibilities as draft Bills in this Session to be considered in the next Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, and Session, but I hope she will understand that with a commend the way of proceeding that she has just newly elected Government the opportunities for dealing outlined in encouraging Members to submit their with draft Bills in the first Session are not as much of an suggestions to her Committee. I am more than happy to option as they will be later in the Parliament. confirm what I said earlier—that I look forward to responding to the motion in her name and those of her Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): May we have a colleagues—and I very much hope that this is the beginning debate on sanctuary, so that Home Office Ministers can of an important dialogue between the Government and explain why Tamil Christians on pilgrimage to Walsingham the House and that the time will be used to enable the on 11 July were targeted by the Home Office and House to hold the Government to account more effectively. arrested and detained, despite the fact that the individuals concerned had already been accepted under the legacy Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Member for casework for consideration by the Home Office and North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) and the Leader that fact had been notified to their Member of Parliament? of the House. 1105 15 JULY 2010 1106

Point of Order Finance Bill

12.21 pm [3RD ALLOCATED DAY] Further considered in Committee (Progress reported, Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): On a point of 13 July) order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for a Minister to mislead the House, as the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member [MR NIGEL EVANS in the Chair] for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill,) did earlier when he claimed that no local authority had faced more than a 2% cut? Many authorities have done, including Clause 4 my own, and particularly Labour authorities. RATES OF INSURANCE PREMIUM TAX Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point of order. To accuse a Minister of misleading the 12.24 pm House is usually a hazardous enterprise, and it would Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I beg to be advisable for her to add the word “inadvertently” move amendment 18, page 2, line 23, leave out ‘“6 per before the word “misleading”. To charge somebody cent”’ and insert ‘“5 per cent in the case of personal with deliberately misleading the House, which is the health insurance, and 6 per cent in any other case”’. implication of what she said, is a serious matter. It might well be that—one must assume this—if there was The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel any misleading, it was inadvertent. If she would add Evans): With this it will be convenient to discuss the that in, I will happily respond. following: Amendment 19, page 2, line 23, leave out ‘“6 per cent”’ and insert ‘“5 per cent in the case of Fiona Mactaggart: Mr Speaker, perhaps you would motor insurance, and 6 per cent in any other case”’. like to invite the Minister to explain to the House how Amendment 15, page 2, line 26, at end add ‘, subject the inadvertent misleading occurred. The House has to a report having been laid by the Secretary of State been misled. I am sure that he did not intend to mislead containing an assessment of the consequences of the it, but he said something that is factually not true. changes in subsection (1) on consumers and the insurance industry.’. Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for Amendment 48, page 2, line 32, leave out subsection (4). accepting the amendment I tabled—by way of a manuscript Mr Chope: The amendments aim to tease out from amendment. She is a very experienced hand—I will not the coalition Government and, in particular, the Exchequer say she is an old hand, because that would be ageist, Secretary, who is responding to this debate, what the wrong, unfair and discriminatory—and she and I entered Government’s attitude is towards people who do the the House together. She has raised under the guise of a right thing and try to relieve the burden on the public point of order an interesting point of debate, and I have sector and the national taxpayer. Although it would be a feeling that she will want to share it with the people of wrong to suggest that the inspiration for the amendments Slough. came from the Secretary of State for Transport, he was on to an important principle recently when he said that if a pensioner has a bus pass but can afford to pay their BILL PRESENTED fare, they should not use the pass but pay the fare themselves and thereby relieve the local taxpayer of the costs consequent upon the use of that subsidised bus SUPERANNUATION BILL pass. It is a subsidy of general application—it goes to Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) people irrespective of their means and ability to pay. Mr France Maude, supported by the Prime Minister, We know that quite a lot of people choose to buy the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of the medical and personal health care in the private sector Exchequer, Secretary Theresa May, Secretary Liam Fox, without burdening the state and the taxpayer. If those Secretary Ian Duncan Smith, Mr Secretary Lansley and people choose to do that through personal health insurance, Nick Hurd, presented a Bill to make provision relating this Budget will increase the financial penalty on them. to pensions, and for connected purposes. In other words, it will be a disincentive to people taking Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on responsibility for their own personal health care through Monday 19 July, and to be printed (Bill 58) with explanatory personal health insurance. Many years ago, it was the notes (Bill 58-EN). policy of the then Conservative Government that those who subscribed to personal health care insurance should have their subscriptions tax deductible. That was based on the worthy principle that, if we did that, we would encourage more people to take responsibility for their own health care. We have moved a long way from that now. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, and I am grateful to him for giving way. Does he support the Government’s aim of coming up with suggestions that will reduce the 1107 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1108

[Mr Peter Bone] seek to get physiotherapy on the NHS, but they find that if they can get it at all, the wait is likely to be so charge to the taxpayer? Obviously, if more people take long that the benefit will be significantly less. private medical insurance, there is less of a burden on A large number of individuals in this country insure the state and it is a win-win situation for the Government. themselves with personal health insurance. If the Government think that that is a good and responsible Mr Chope: Almost every contribution I make in the thing to do—it is one way in which people choose to House is designed to try to help the Government and spend their money, perhaps instead of spending it on often to try to get better value for money for taxpayers. expensive holidays abroad or whatever else—we can If we were under any illusions about how important perhaps hear about that today. However, if the and critical the situation is in relation to health care, we Government’s purpose is to encourage people to supplement should bear in mind that yesterday, in response to a the health care that is available from the state, why are question from my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle we proposing to increase the insurance tax on the (Andrew Stephenson) about the NHS White Paper, the premiums that they pay? Prime Minister said that One might also talk about what happens in dentistry. “when we look at the NHS, we know that there are expensive It is almost impossible now to access free dentistry on drugs coming down the track, expensive treatments and an ageing the NHS. Indeed, I understand from the British Dental population, and more children born with disabilities and living Association that, in terms of value, about half the for longer. There are cost pressures on our NHS that mean that dentistry in this country is practised in the private even small real-terms increases will be an heroic thing to achieve.”— sector, and a lot of that is funded through insurance. If [Official Report, 14 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 950.] we want a nation that prides itself on having about the My hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) worst dental care of anywhere in the world, we are is making exactly the same point. I am trying to tease heading in the right direction. I am sorry that my hon. out from my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary whether Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) it is the Government’s policy to try to encourage people is not here to supplement my points about that, but to take responsibility for their own health care, if they there is an increasing crisis in dentistry in this country, can so do. This is not the subject of an amendment, but because of a lack of resources that are funded by the similarly, if people can afford to educate their children taxpayer. In moving the amendment, I am not asking in the independent sector, should they not be encouraged that those taxpayer resources should be greater; rather, so to do? I am trying to ensure that proper incentives are in place to encourage people to take responsibility for such 12.30 pm insurance themselves. I am concerned that, in this country, we cannot Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I am delighted afford to fund all our health care needs out of taxation. by the case that my hon. Friend is making. As he is If we look at those countries that have better health suggesting, people who insure for their health needs are care systems that are also better funded collectively paying twice, because they are also paying their contribution than ours, we see that many of them—I am thinking to the NHS, thereby helping doubly. Does he therefore particularly of Australia—are in countries where a think that keeping the tax rate at 5% is enough, or high proportion of the money going into personal would he really rather it were lower? health care comes from individuals, rather than taxpayers. If we want more expenditure on health, why Mr Chope: My right hon. Friend asks a pertinent do we not incentivise people to take on more responsibility question. I would prefer the tax to be much lower—indeed, themselves? perhaps there should be no tax at all—for particular It might be said, “Well, these are the services that are insurance premiums. However, in order to try to carry available, and people shouldn’t be encouraged to buy as many people with me as possible in this debate, I their way out of the queue,” but a situation is rapidly thought that I would limit my ambition, by saying, developing where what are described as low-priority “Why don’t we not increase the tax from 5% to 6% for health services are affected. For example, the local specific types of insurance premiums?” primary care trust in my area has refused to fund an I have picked out a couple of examples of that, and I operation—I think that it is called a grommets operation— will come to another in a minute, but obviously the for two young children who have difficulties with their principles could apply much more widely. For example, learning as a result of their ear condition. The primary many people are now taking out insurance against their care trust has refused to fund those operations on the long-term care needs. Indeed, the Conservative party grounds that they constitute low-level care. Indeed, I said in its manifesto that for an £8,000 premium, a met somebody during the general election who, according family would be able to secure themselves against the to the clinical advice that he had received, needed a cost of having to fund long-term care. I do not know cataract operation at the Royal Bournemouth hospital. whether such a premium, if it were paid, would be However, that operation was not being funded, because subject to insurance premium tax, but perhaps my hon. the cataracts were not sufficiently severe. Friend the Minister will be able to tell us about that. At What is happening now is that the public availability the same time, perhaps he can let us know when he of health care that is funded by the taxpayer is being expects that part of the Conservative manifesto to be reduced. An increasing number of people may wish to brought before the House for implementation in legislative insure themselves against the possibility that they might form. need access to such health care in the independent The principle of insurance is one that most sector. Indeed, one might also mention physiotherapy. Conservatives—most of my constituents—applaud. People Any number of people who suffer sports injuries then can either self-insure, which means that they take the 1109 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1110 risks themselves, or they can pool that risk by buying an Young people now face very substantial insurance insurance policy, which many people do, by buying life premiums and those from the most deprived areas are insurance, pension insurance and so on. In the case of often those with the highest premiums. One factor that pension insurance, we are talking about incentives for is taken into account is the postcode. If the chance of saving; in the case of life insurance, we are trying to someone’s car being stolen is high because of where encourage people to ensure that if they die prematurely, they live or because they do not have garage, the premium their dependants have some support and are not wholly will be higher than for someone who perhaps lives in a dependent on the state. Those examples do not fall rural, perhaps law-abiding community.That is an additional within the scope of my amendments, but they would be problem that these young people face when it comes to covered by amendment 15, which goes rather wider. motor insurance. However, it is important that we should have this little debate, to try to tease out a bit more from the Government Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): This tax will on these important issues. hit not only young people, but people of all ages. Does Turning to my amendment 19, let me say that we have he agree that those arguing that the motor car is a a real problem with motor insurance in this country. luxury and that taxes on luxuries are quite acceptable For young people, the price of motor insurance is are ignoring the real problems that people in rural areas almost prohibitive. Indeed, it is so high that people face? For them the motor car is not a luxury but a cannot afford to buy it. Instead, what happens is that necessity. young people might get their parents to put them on their policies, if they are lucky enough to have parents Mr Chope: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. who will do so—sometimes in quite dubious circumstances, What he and others are identifying in this debate is an as we have been reading in the newspapers recently—but element of confusion in public policy. Compulsory quite often they will take a risk and drive uninsured. I third-party insurance for people who drive cars is a regard driving without insurance as an extremely serious matter of public policy. If such compulsory insurance is motoring offence. It is reckless, and those who do pay required by the law, we are effectively saying as law-makers for their motor insurance end up having to pick up the that it is a good thing to have it. Are we seriously saying bill for those who cause accidents and injuries as a as law-makers, “Well, if you comply with the law, we are result of not buying insurance. also going to charge you extra tax for your compliance”? It seems to me that we need more clarity of thought on Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I am following the hon. the matter. If we do not think that insurance is important Gentlemen’s argument, but when he says that the cost and necessary, we should remove the requirement for of insurance for young people is prohibitive, does he compulsory insurance. I think that motor insurance, honestly believe that 1% either way is going to be a and particularly third-party insurance, is not only desirable significant factor in a young person’s decision on whether but essential. If we are to have it, however, why should to buy motor insurance? we also have insurance premium tax on it? In particular, why do we need to increase the insurance premium tax Mr Chope: Well, 1% is 1%. I am sorry that the hon. at this time? Lady seems to be rather unsympathetic to the plight of The yield from all the increases in insurance premium people who are trying to get motor insurance. Lots of tax comes to some £400 million a year, but I suggest young people need a car to get to work. They find the that the cost ramifications arising from uninsured driving, cost of motoring increasing all the time and they find and the accident and injuries resulting from it, might be the cost of insurance also increasing, yet the proposal on a scale similar to the total yield of the entire increase before us is to increase that cost further—not massively in insurance premium tax. Because the current system further, but to increase it nevertheless. imposes a flat rate on the level of the premium, the higher the premium, the worse the risk and the greater Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): As I the penalty incurred. hope to be able to say in my contribution later, I agree with the hon. Gentleman on this point. I am astonished to hear the comments coming from the Liberal Democrats 12.45 pm that they do not care about the costs of motor insurance, When the Minister responds, I hope he will let us which, especially to young people, can be £1,000 or know whether he has considered alternative ways of more. Will the hon. Gentleman also note the perverse raising revenue, if it has to be raised, from insurance consequences for those who go uninsured? Yes, they premiums. It might be possible to do so by looking at might get six points put on their licence if they are each transaction, or we could have a fixed levy on every caught, but the fine is often just £300 or £400, so they annual insurance premium. That would mean that people would almost be better off to take the risk and be fined with the highest premiums would not have to pay the rather than pay the cost of the insurance. That has to highest amount in tax. I do not know whether those change. options are being looked at. If the Minister is listening to what I am saying rather than coalescing with the Mr Chope: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. coalition, I hope he will let me know whether any What he said is no great revelation for young people thinking has gone on in this radical Government along when they go out and party or communicate with each the lines that I have suggested—of having a fixed price other via modern means of communication. They know tax on each insurance transaction rather than relating that the risks of getting caught are not that great, and the tax to the cost of the premium, which, as I have that if they are caught, the consequence will be penalty said, militates particularly against the least well-off, points on their licence and a fine. They will often be able living in areas where the premiums are higher because to pay off the fine over an extended period. the risks are higher. 1111 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1112

Without making a meal of it, I believe that we are That makes sense, given that taxes elsewhere, not least debating an important matter of principle, and I am VAT, are going up. The insurance industry is worried delighted that there are so many right hon. and hon. that increased premiums may tempt people completely Members in the Chamber to hear it debated. We look to stop insuring their homes, holidays or travel. Already, forward to hearing more about amendment 15, which I according to research by moneysupermarket.com, only believe is also a useful one. It is surprising that we do one in five travellers always cover every trip they take not have such a report as is suggested in the amendment here or abroad. before us now as we consider these issues. One consequence of underinsurance or non-insurance Mr Knight: I do not think my hon. Friend should is that the number of illegal uninsured drivers is on the gloss over this point too quickly. As he has said, this is a rise. According to the Motor Insurers Bureau, they percentage tax, so we are effectively saying that a young already push up the average car premium for everybody driver seeking to insure an Escort RS motor vehicle else by £30 a year. If more people are underinsured or should pay more in tax than a 55-year-old driver of a have no insurance at all, the premiums of those who pay Bentley. the minimum third-party insurance will be pushed up even further. That is another burden that people really Mr Chope: My right hon. Friend has particular expertise cannot do with in the middle of this recession, when and knowledge about that particular end of the market. times are tough. As the right hon. Member for East I am sure that the Committee is obliged to him for that Yorkshire (Mr Knight) has made clear, in certain parts information. The point he makes is absolutely correct. of the country, where the car is a necessity and people If we are thinking in terms of equity and fairness as the are honest, such premiums will be paid again and again. guiding words of the day, let us see if we can look again There will be a lot of hits to the honest insurer as a with radical eyes at this whole structure of taxing result of non-insurance elsewhere. insurance premiums. Let us see whether the Government The Association of British Insurers has responded to accept the amendment today; if they do not, let us see the Budget by saying: whether they have anything else to put on the table by “Raising IPT is a direct tax increase for the vast majority of way of responding positively to the points raised in the people who sensibly protect themselves and their families with debate. We can then decide whether we wish to divide insurance. This is regrettable and could have serious unintended the Committee on this issue or just put down a marker consequences if it puts off consumers from protecting their about it. homes, cars, holidays and everyday living.” Mr Bone: Before my hon. Friend concludes his opening On uninsured trips, apparently some 2.9 million trips remarks, will he clarify this? I assume that the amendment are made each year without adequate cover. Peter Hayman, is not really about whether to have the tax rise or not to the director of P J Hayman, expects that number to rise have it, because it is very small. Is it more about sending as more people opt to economise and use “free” cover as out a signal that the Government want to encourage the cost of IPT increases. Perry Wilson, the founder of people to take responsibility and take out insurance? Insure and Go, has said: “Our research suggests that the UK travel insurance industry Mr Chope: Absolutely. I make no apology for declaring receives over half a million claims for medical problems a year my own view, which is that if it could be afforded, it and nearly 400 000 for lost or stolen baggage. This tax rise will would be sensible to give tax relief on insurance premiums only act as a deterrent to those who sensibly want to insure where we think those premiums are for the public good themselves against these risks”. and will result in reducing the burden on the state and Of course, the cost of not having insurance in certain the taxpayer. I would like at least to bring in incentives circumstances can be extraordinarily expensive. in the form of tax relief, let alone eliminate the insurance premium tax. As I said earlier, I do not think that the David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): The hon. Gentleman latter is affordable in the present crisis. That is why I makes an important point about underinsurance, as tabled this very modest proposal in the hope that it will have other Members. Does he agree that this should not get the Government thinking about alternative means be just about the potential increase in IPT, but should of raising money from insurance policies. also be about what we can do in terms of product Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): I rise to speak design? Surely the onus should be on insurers to come to amendment 15 in my name and that of my friends. up with products that help people, particularly younger At face value, the increase in insurance premium tax in drivers, to avoid this challenge. For example, they should the Budget did not cause a huge stir, but as its consequences look at opportunities for pay-as-you-go insurance and began to be felt, many representations were made by other possibilities. The argument is not just about IPT, consumers and the industry. On balance, it is wise that but is about other product-related challenges and what we should have a report on the likely consequences of can be put forward to mitigate the problems of this tax rise on individuals, families, consumers and the underinsurance. sector. A number of concerns and predictions have been voiced. Eric Galbraith, the chief executive of the British Stewart Hosie: I am a great supporter of innovative Insurance Brokers Association, said that its research product design, marketing and pricing strategies, and I “demonstrated that businesses and consumers were reducing hope that all those things happen, but we are debating insurance cover as a result of the recession” an amendment to the Finance Bill in which the Government and that are putting up IPT. I shall not strain the limits allowed “we are concerned that increases to insurance premiums as a by the Chair, but shall stick to the amendment and what result of IPT could lead to even further underinsurance or even a is in the Bill, while supporting any innovation that the lack of insurance protection. The last thing people need in a insurance sector, which is massively important in Scotland, financial crisis is a higher insurance bill”. might bring forward. 1113 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1114

There is a deterrent effect on those who wish sensibly their circumstances, and that that places other people at to insure themselves against many risks, and that effect risk and could mean losses that those young people will be enhanced as the cost of insurance rises. There could not afford to pay if they had an accident. That are also specific consequences for individuals. Some clearly means a loss of revenue for the Exchequer, 1.2 million people—about one in 20 motorists— because those people are not making their contribution regularly drive uninsured, and honest motorists pay the by paying their share of insurance tax. We would like £30 premium I have mentioned, which is likely to go up. the Minister to consider whether better enforcement of If someone is caught driving without insurance, the the insurance rules could help with his task of filling the police are entitled to remove their vehicle from the road coffers and narrowing the deficit. That might be a better and charge them for the cost of transporting, storing or route than increasing the tax. scrapping it. However, some cars may be worth less I am sure that the Minister will remind us that we are than the cost of insurance and there will be a burden on talking about a 1% increase and that it is quite a modest the public purse as a result of that removal, storage and sum of money. We have been reminded a few times that scrapping of vehicles if people choose simply to abandon young people with certain kinds of vehicles, or some them. young people with any kind of vehicle, can be required People might also cut corners and opt for the “free” to pay a four-figure sum each year for their motor travel insurance offered by credit card companies, which insurance, so we could be talking about £10 or more. might leave some travellers without the necessary levels The additional increase would not be welcome, because of cover and might be costly in the long term. I do not most young people find such sums of money quite large intend to take up much of the Committee’s time on this in the first place, and a further 1% would not be helpful. issue, as this is a probing amendment, but this issue is more serious than I had initially imagined. I look forward 1pm to hearing the Minister’s comments on that last point in particular, because if people decide not to pay insurance The increase might only be a straw, but the camel’s premiums and instead settle for the “free” cover offered back is already well and truly loaded. The poor old by their credit cards, they might be underinsured in motorist is always at the top of any Government’s list certain circumstances. Also, business might be driven when they are rattling the collecting tin and trying to from the traditional, successful, good insurance companies, raise more money for a variety of state purposes. I just and I am conscious of what the net loss of jobs, revenue hope that the Government will reflect on this matter. and profitability in that sector might be. So, putting up They will have other opportunities to look at the total IPT will have consequences for the sector, for individuals burden on the motorist, and they might not wish to and for jobs. All these points need to be answered consider this particular burden today and therefore properly and considerable comfort needs to be given immediately grant my hon. Friend the Member for that we are not going to turn into a nation that says, Christchurch’s request. I see no sign of the Minister “We can’t afford insurance; we’ll do without it and let leaping to his feet to welcome the proposal, just and fair other people pick up the tab.” I shall listen very carefully though it might be. We know, for example, that the to the Minister’s reply. coalition Government are going to look at a fair fuel levy—an escalator that comes down when the price goes up and goes up when the price comes down, to Mr Redwood: My hon. Friend the Member for keep fuel prices at a more realistic level. Christchurch (Mr Chope) has highlighted the two very important and different issues of health insurance and Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): In trying to square the motor insurance. Let me start with motor insurance, circle of how we can raise taxes when there is no money, which is a legal obligation that is imposed on everyone it is interesting to note that we have not committed to who wishes to own and drive a car. Labour’s rise in fuel tax, which was going to add a Like my hon. Friend, and, I suspect, everyone else in further £425 million—[Interruption.] If you read the the House, I think it quite right that there should be that small print in Labour’s last Budget, you will see that obligation. It reminds people that driving a car is a there was a plan to raise an additional £425 million— serious business and that they could do considerable damage to others or themselves if they do it badly. It The First Deputy Chairman: Order. We are not referring also means that, were someone to drive badly or to be to taxes that are not proposed in the Bill. We are talking involved in an accident that was not their fault, there specifically about the amendments to the Bill. would be redress and injured third parties who might need substantial compensation would not be left without Mr Redwood: How wise you are, Mr Evans. it. For all those reasons, we think that car insurance is a I was making the point that the Minister, in responding very good idea and we accept that it should be a legal to this debate on the insurance premium tax, might obligation. assuage some of our grief if he were to say that the The coalition Government think that one way of Government had looked at the total package of taxes raising more revenue is to increase the tax on that on the motorist and that they were aware that this was compulsory purchase, but quite a lot of people in the yet another example of the piling high of taxes on the House think it would be better to raise more revenue motorist. Although this individual tax increase will not from the existing level of insurance tax on motor insurance be large for many motorists—it will be more penal for by getting more people to be insured. We are rightly young drivers and high-risk drivers—it is none the less very concerned that, because of the way in which the an additional burden. Even if the Minister cannot insurance market works, a significant number of people, accept the amendment, I hope that he will look at other particularly younger people, may not be taking out any ways of dealing with the problem of fair motoring insurance or may not be taking out proper insurance for taxes. 1115 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1116

[Mr Redwood] these free goods, but people have come up with lots of figures that show conclusively that, in a hypothecated Every time something like this happens to motorists—this way, motorists get a particularly poor deal. People now time, it is the insurance tax levy—they say, “We are look at these issues in such a way partly because the being sandbagged again. Where are those better roads? green movement has made them do so. It has now been Where is that safer junction? Where is the wish to spend demonstrated that, calculated in a hypothecated way, money on improving the flows on the roads so that we motorists put in a lot more than they get back. I do not can travel in a more fuel-efficient, green manner of think that the Treasury should operate all its taxation which the Environment Secretary would approve?” There on that basis, but it does need to take account of the never seems to be the money to do that. We know that mood and the politics surrounding this question, which this bit of taxation on the motorist, like most others, we are here to represent. primarily goes not to making better roads but to a wide The feeling of unfairness is now quite extreme among range of other purposes; it gets lost in the general the motoring community, and motorists want to coffers. communicate through us the fact that they are often motorists because they have to be. There is no train to Lorely Burt: A number of speakers today have singled take them to the shops, for example. The train might be out specific kinds of insurance, but as I understand it, 2 miles away from their home so, unless they have the Bill proposes to increase insurance premium tax on plenty of time to walk to the station, they need to start a whole range of insurance products, which we would their journey in the car and sometimes they might as encourage people to take in a responsible manner. I well finish it in the car as well. There is often no have every sympathy for young drivers and for other alternative, which is why some 86% of our journey miles motorists, but why does the right hon. Gentleman feel are carried out by car, and only some 6% by train. There that we should specifically single out motorists or people is a basic necessity, which is why we need to be fair when who take out private health insurance? Why should making any tax proposals affecting motorists. those people be specifically excluded? The case of private health insurance is somewhat Mr Redwood: That is what I am trying to explain, different, as I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for while remaining in order on this narrow amendment. Christchurch would agree. I make my declaration: I The bottom line of my case is that motorists comprise a have no private health insurance, so I am not arguing large category and, when polled, they say that they feel my own case. I rely on the NHS, should ill health befall badly done by because they pay a disproportionate me, as I am sure do many other Members. However, I amount of tax and do not get much back. It is argued am not saying that some of my constituents are wrong that motorists ought to pay more because they get the to take out private health insurance. It is still a legal use of the roads, which are provided free at the point of thing to do. Indeed, in a way, I feel that I am cheap-skating use in most cases. It is not like that, however, because at their expense, because they are paying twice and I am the bulk of the taxes levied on the motorist, including paying only once. I pay my taxes, and if something this insurance premium tax, are used for purposes other happens to me, I hope to receive NHS care, whereas than roads and motoring. That is why motorists feel they contribute to everyone else’s NHS care through hard done by. their taxes—they have no choice, of course, but some of them do it graciously—and then make the additional I hope that the Minister and his colleagues will choice to pay for their own insurance. There is a double consider carefully the general category of the motorist. advantage: more money comes into the health sector, I would love it if he could make a concession to my hon. but when those people become ill they make no claim Friend the Member for Christchurch, but if he cannot, on the health service, even though they contribute to it. it would help us and the people we represent if he could say that the Government were at least aware of the bad My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch is deal that the motorist has been getting in recent years, making a reasonable point. Given that it is not illegal to and that, where possible, they will do something about have private insurance, and that those who have it help that. As we have heard, people in rural areas have no to eke out NHS funds, should we be taxing it more? choice; they have to use their cars. People in urban and That is a very good question to raise. I shall make no suburban areas also have no choice at certain times of stronger statement than that, but it will be interesting to the day or at weekends. People who work antisocial see how the Treasury responds. After all, on this side of hours clearly need a car. Most MPs need a car, for the House, we are all now big society fans and advocates— example, because we still work antisocial hours. [Interruption.] Well, practically all of us, perhaps. There might be one or two of my right hon. and hon. Friends Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab): I who are not so enthusiastic about it, but I am; I think it am following the right hon. Gentleman’s argument with is a great idea. The essence of the big society idea is to some care. He said that motorists get only a limited harness private money, voluntary effort and charitable amount back from the taxes that they put in. Does he activity, and to understand that the state cannot solve therefore support arguments in favour of the greater all the problems. In a complex, difficult and expensive hypothecation of taxes such as the insurance premium area such as health care and related social care, we need tax, to help to resolve that problem? voluntary and private contributions as top-ups, or in addition to public sector care. Mr Redwood: No, I do not. I am sufficiently in tune This issue poses a particularly interesting question with Treasury thinking to know that all Treasuries for Ministers. If they are really serious about the big under any Government hate hypothecation, and I society idea, do they want to increase the taxes on understand the complication. Critics of motoring and people who make voluntary contributions and take cars often argue that motorists are walking off with all some of the demand away from public services? Ought 1117 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1118 they not to be encouraging people to do such things? I It is possible to deduce why the higher rate has gone look forward to hearing my hon. Friend the Minister’s up, but it is curious that the Government have chosen to reply to these nice philosophical questions in this wonderful increase the standard rate. We have to assess that decision caring, sharing age of coalition government, in which alongside the decision to preserve exemptions and zero- the big society will require some erosion of the old rating from VAT on a range of goods and services. We boundaries between public and private. were told on Tuesday night by the Economic Secretary that the existing zero ratings and exemptions would be Mr Byrne: It is an enormous pleasure to follow the kept in place for the course of this Parliament. That hon. Members for Christchurch (Mr Chope) and for commitment was given to the House on Tuesday night, Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) and the right hon. Member and we will all watch the Government’s adherence to it for Wokingham (Mr Redwood). The strength of their with a great deal of attention over the next few years. contributions was in illustrating that the proposals in That decision to keep in place a series of zero ratings clause 4 raise a wide range of policy concerns and and exemptions just adds to the mystery of why this debates. Hitherto, the House has not had much explanation standard rate has been singled out for such an enormous of the logic or rationale of all the changes set out in the rise. clause. The arguments for some of the proposals are fairly easy to deduce, but the core of the clause is the 1.15 pm increase in the standard rate of insurance premium tax, which has not been explained. The hon. Member for Christchurch raised an important point. The Budget scorecard shows that the overall The lack of explanation underlines the fact that the increase in VAT brings about £54 billion into the Exchequer Bill is somewhat piecemeal. It is fragmented. It is not a over the course of this Parliament. That is an extraordinary whole Bill; it is not even a half Bill; it is a bit of a Bill. amount of money. Eight billion pounds of that will be We were told with great fanfare a few weeks ago that the paid for by our country’s pensioners. The scorecard also Government were introducing an emergency Budget. shows that a further £2 billion is brought in over the The Bill and the clause illustrate in our debate this Parliament by the increase in IPT, but we are not told afternoon that the only emergency was the need to get how much will come in from the respective increases in some pretty difficult changes on to the statute book by the standard and higher rates. True to form, the Government the summer, before Liberal Democrat members on the certainly have not told us what the impact of the IPT Treasury Bench got cold feet or had, dare I suggest, too increase will be. I would therefore like to say a little many conversations with their constituents. about what the House of Commons Library and other So the result of that emergency—something that sources are able to tell us about the impact of the some would uncharitably call a panic—is a Finance Bill increase. with measures such as clause 4 that so far are bereft of I am afraid that one of the groups that will be hit logical explanation. The strategy has also produced hardest by the increase is, once again, our country’s clause 5, which we shall debate later this afternoon, pensioners. That was the group that Liberal Democrat which withdraws tax legislation without putting anything and Conservative Members refused to protect when back in its place. Where there is certainty, the Government given the chance by Labour amendments on Tuesday in their panic have decided to substitute mystery. So night. We established in Tuesday’s debates that pensioners much for the simplification credentials. would pay £8 billion in extra VAT. The figure was not The effect of clause 4 on one level, as I have said, is challenged by the Government. Today I can tell the reasonably straightforward. It raises the higher rate of Committee that it appears that pensioners will be hit by insurance premium tax from 17.5% to 20%. That would a further £355 million over the course of the Parliament. appear to be a fairly automatic consequence of the The House of Commons Library note—I am happy to decision to raise VAT to 20%. The higher rate of IPT release it more widely—allocates the revenue raised was introduced in 1999 to prevent a problem called from the IPT increase between pensioner and non-pensioner value shifting, whereby some retailers and other producers households. I am grateful to the Library for this excellent tried to lower prices of goods and bundle them with work. It says that, according to Office for National insurance policies, for which they redeemed some of the Statistics figures, pensioners account for about 18% of value. I was not sure whether that was some of the spending on insurance in this country. The scorecard financial innovation that the hon. Member for Dundee scores 115, 455, 445, 455 and 455 in increased revenue East was beginning to welcome in his remarks. Perhaps over this Parliament from the increase in IPT, so the he will say more about that a little later. Library estimates that £21 million will be raised from pensioners in 2010-11. Pensioners will pay that without Mr Chope: Does the right hon. Gentleman know any recompense in the form of extra pension credit or what proportion of the £400 million yield from IPT increased basic state pension; those increases do not proposals is attributable to the increase from 17.5% to kick in until a little later in the year. 20% and what proportion is attributable to the increase In subsequent years our pensioners will pay about from 5% to 6%? £84 million a year more in IPT—in total about £355 million over the course of this Parliament. Hon. Members will Mr Byrne: The hon. Gentleman raises an important be concerned about that. question. The answer is that I do not know. It is a mystery. The Budget scorecard has a certain number, Chris Leslie: My right hon. Friend is making an but of course it has bundled together the revenue that is incredibly important point. Many pensioners in my to be raised from the increase in the higher rate and the constituency will be oblivious to the impact that this increase in the standard rate. I hope that the Minister stealthy tax rise from the Government will have on will be able to enlighten us. them, especially as they are diligent in keeping up with 1119 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1120

[Chris Leslie] There will be an impact on travel insurance, to which Members have alluded, but many Opposition Members their contents insurance, buildings insurance and motor are particularly worried about increases in the cost of insurance. In many ways, the Government are grinding general household insurance. Many of us serve the burden of taxation on their shoulders. My amendment constituencies with high rates of poverty and worklessness on advertising the increase in IPT was not selected. and many areas, including some in my constituency, are Does my right hon. Friend agree that the cost of the also troubled by relatively high rates of crime, with drug Treasury’s imposition should be more prominently displayed use fuelling burglary. Over the short number of years on policy documents so that at least pensioners are that I have served in the House, I have seen many aware of what the Government are doing? constituents who did not have insurance and lost everything in burglaries and had to rebuild their lives, sometimes Mr Byrne: My hon. Friend raises an extremely significant from scratch. The ABI has told us that for the average point. I am sorry that his amendment was not selected. household a 1% increase in IPT will put at least another The insurance industry will almost certainly pass on the £8 a year on the general cost of household insurance, increased taxes directly to consumers. That has been the taking it up to £850. For many of my constituents, history of increases in this kind of tax. So there is a £850 is unaffordable, particularly if they live in areas strong case for advertising the increase more widely. I that attract premiums. am sure that all of us as politicians will do our level best to make the news known in our constituencies. For those reasons, the director general of the ABI has described the move announced by the Chancellor as Mr Bone: Is the shadow Minister saying now that he “regrettable”. Kerrie Kelly, in remarks to which the would support the private Member’s Transparent Taxation hon. Member for Dundee East alluded, was clear, saying (Receipts) Bill—something in which the First Deputy that the change Chairman of Ways and Means had a slight interest in a “is a direct tax increase for the vast majority of people who previous life—which required that receipts showed how sensibly protect themselves.” much tax and duty had been paid so that they were The hon. Member for Dundee East also mentioned Eric better advertised? Galbraith, who said bluntly: Mr Byrne: I have not studied the Bill, so I am grateful “This is a tax on protection.” to the hon. Gentleman for drawing it to my attention. That is a public policy concern about which we need to We have had good debates over the past two or three hear more. weeks about the need for greater transparency both in We do not have a theoretical objection to insurance economic policy making and in tax policy. The Bill premium tax and, subject to a decent explanation from certainly sounds as though it would contribute to that Treasury Ministers, I do not plan to put our amendment agenda. to a vote. The history of IPT is one of consensus. It was The hon. Member for Christchurch raised a number introduced by the right hon. and learned Member for of public policy points. He did not dwell much on the Rushcliffe—now the Lord Chancellor—and increased impact of the new charges on low income groups, and I in 1999 by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy should like to touch on that different policy question. It and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown). None the less, there are is important that we debate it this afternoon. The some important questions that it is important for the Association of British Insurers has argued for a long Government to answer this afternoon. time that the tax is regressive. IPT has been raised in the What assessment has been made of the increase in past by Conservative and Labour Governments, and insurance premium tax? I should be grateful if the the ABI has been consistent: Exchequer Secretary would set out his assessment of “IPT is a regressive tax. It imposes a disproportionate burden the impact of that hike on Britain’s pensioners? What on the less well off individuals and the smallest businesses. These will be the impact of the increase on the availability of are most likely to need the protection of insurance.” general household insurance for people on low wages? Given those arguments, we deserve a full and thorough Why is he raising the rate from 17.5% to 20%? Is it to explanation of the public policy rationale for introducing preclude the value shifting that was the inspiration for such taxes. the rate change in 1996? Most important, why is he We have heard about the impact that the tax will have raising the standard rate from 5% to 10%? Can he on consumers. The hon. Member for Christchurch did confirm that it is not the Government’s policy to harmonise not remind us of his distinguished career as a Transport the standard rate with levels across Europe? Minister, but he understands well the impact of higher In 1999, when Labour raised the IPT rate, my right rates on, for example, car insurance. In the days shortly hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South (Dawn after the Budget, The Guardian told us that the average Primarolo), then the Paymaster General, was clear on car insurance buyer would pay about £18 a year more in the matter. She said: tax. The AA said that the bill would be slightly higher—at “Rates vary tremendously across Europe, but they are significantly least another 35 quid on an average insurance policy. higher than in the UK, which has one of the lowest rates.” The right hon. Member for Wokingham spoke eloquently about the impact that the increase will have on young It was put to her that the rise was part of a wider, drivers. Some press reports estimated that the bill would hidden plan to increase the rate successively to levels in rise by only £15, but the intimation in the right hon. Europe, but my right hon. Friend was clear: Gentleman’s remarks, and those of the hon. Member “The increase does not signal a future change.”—[Official for Christchurch, was that it might be a little higher. Of Report, Standing Committee B, 15 June 1999; c. 642.] course the increase comes at a time when car insurance I should like the same assurance from Ministers on the premiums have been rising consistently for the last Treasury Bench this afternoon. Can the Exchequer 12 months. Secretary confirm that the change is not part of a plan 1121 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1122 successively to increase rates of insurance premium tax it would send the country the remarkable signal that the to levels across Europe, which amount to 11% at the low coalition Government and the Prime Minister want end of the range in countries such as Austria and people to stand up for themselves and take responsibility, 22% at the higher end in countries such as Italy. as part of the big society, by insuring themselves. It is important that we have some assurances this I am in the wonderful position of being a Conservative afternoon that there will be no further rises in IPT in Back Bencher who does not have to worry about the this Parliament. Subject to satisfactory assurances and Whip in Committee. The Prime Minister has already explanations of the points I have raised, I would see no said that he wants the Government to be held to account— need to put the amendment to a vote. I very much look [Laughter.] I know that this will be a shock to Labour forward to hearing what the Minister has to say in reply. Members, given that they are always whipped and centrally controlled, but Conservative Back Benchers have the Several hon. Members rose— right to hold the Executive to account. When we are in Committee, as is the case today, we are not subject to a The First Deputy Chairman: Order. It may be of Whip. We can vote whichever way we like in this Committee interest to the Committee to know that I shall not be as long as the overall Budget gets through. Amendment 18 allowing a debate on clause stand part separately from is such a small amendment that if it is pressed to a the debate currently taking place. Division, I will support it, which is the sort of thing that Mr Bone: Thank you, Mr Evans. I am very grateful to the Prime Minister would welcome. have been called. It is a great pleasure to serve under I have set out my basic argument about the tax your chairmanship for the first time since you have been increase on medical insurance, but perhaps I should elevated to your new role. I refer Members to my entry draw the Committee’s attention to a private Member’s in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Bill that will be debated on 4 February 2011. That Bill The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill would give tax relief to private medical premiums, but (Mr Byrne) made an interesting and measured speech, that wider debate is for another day. There is a question which I hope my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary of whether such an approach would lead to more people will respond to in due course. I could not agree more insuring themselves, which would generate a saving with the right hon. Gentleman’s last point. We should because they would be less of a concern for the NHS, not be increasing insurance premium tax to anything but today we are discussing only whether to impose a like European levels. That is one thing we do not need 1% tax increase. I hope that the Exchequer Secretary to learn from Europe. will be able to tell us how much revenue the Treasury I support the two amendments tabled by my hon. would lose if the amendment were accepted and we did Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) and I not have that 1% rise. If the increase discourages individuals warmly support the comments made by my right hon. from taking out medical insurance, more people will Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood). have to be treated by the state, which is why I argue that My remarks about relief on motor insurance will be the tax increase from 5% to 6% on medical insurance brief. The arguments have been made powerfully and I premiums will cost the state more money. entirely support them. The amendment about health insurance concerns me the most. Mr Knight: Is not the encapsulation of my hon. Friend’s argument that this is a tax on responsible The coalition Government have three areas of protected behaviour? In the case of motor insurance, it is a tax on spending, where public spending is guaranteed to rise: lawful behaviour. the health service, overseas aid and the European Union. I want to deal with the relationship of the proposals to Mr Bone: I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend’s the health budget. Each year, £100 billion is spent on point, but I want to draw a distinction between the NHS and the Government rightly recognise that amendments 18 and 19. Amendment 18 addresses health spending will have to increase. There is no way round it. insurance premiums, and the fact is that if someone Demand on the health service will grow and grow, so does not take out health insurance, the state picks up there will have to be a real-terms increase. Even allowing the bill, because they will go to the NHS. When someone for that, however, there will not be enough money to do does not take out motor insurance, the responsible everything in the health service. citizen picks up the bill through the Motor Insurers One of my constituents is suffering from cancer and Bureau, but that is not quite the same as the position for needs cancer drugs. She has to sell her house to pay for health. It is clear that if someone might have paid for those drugs. If she had been insured, that would not insurance so that they could go to an independent have been the case. I am convinced that that lady uses sector hospital but does not do so, they will be in the the NHS most of the time, so she has not chosen to opt NHS and the state will have to pay. I argue that we out by insuring herself against everything, but there will could send a signal today to the citizens of this country, always be aspects of health provision that the NHS as part of the big society, that we want them to be cannot cover because of their cost. That will mean that responsible and to take out insurance, especially health people have to pay extra, as this lady is doing for her insurance, which would save the Government money. cancer drugs. If we are to encourage people to insure themselves against such risk, we need to send the right Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): signal. Labour Members do not have a philosophical objection to private health care, but does the hon. Gentleman 1.30 pm accept that many people cannot afford such coverage? Amendment 18 does not address cost because the It is wrong to say that taking out private health care is a difference between rates of 5% and 6% does not represent responsible option because that portrays those who a huge amount. However, if the amendment was accepted, cannot afford it as somehow irresponsible. 1123 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1124

Mr Bone: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s Insurance premium tax was, of course, a Conservative intervention, but I know that I will get into trouble if I initiative, introduced back in 1993, I think. We are all respond to it in detail. I suggest that he turns up in the concerned about the deficit and revenues, so reluctantly Chamber when my private Member’s Bill is considered we all have to accept the tax as part and parcel of our on 4 February 2011, so that we can have that debate. general revenue stream, but it is worth pausing to reflect My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary has an on the impact of the charge on the behaviour of customers historic opportunity today to stand up and make a who want to take out insurance. Of course, there are name for himself and this Government by encouraging different effects for different types of insurance. The people to take out insurance. amendments highlight both ends of the scale. I am not sure that I share the sympathy for amendment Chris Leslie: I am glad that we have had the opportunity 18 on private health insurance, because the general to debate these important tax changes. I have the greatest public already effectively pay for health cover through respect for all my constituents and the British public the tax that they pay towards the NHS; that is far and generally, but when we talk about financial matters such away the best health insurance that all of us could want. as pensions, savings and insurance, there is a tendency If we are all part of that, and pool our resources in the British culture for the fog to descend and for effectively, we ensure a better quality of health care for people to say, “Well, these things are very complicated ourselves. I hear the points made by Government Members, and I don’t quite understand them.” A lot of people who say that private health insurance removes the burden therefore get trapped by their own inertia in certain from the NHS, but if we are all part of the system policies, bank accounts or pensions, and they do not together, and make sure that we all take part in it, we necessarily shop around to get the best deal. I am afraid have a better collective service. that insurance products are in the group of services to which our constituents sometimes do not pay attention. Thomas Docherty: Does my hon. Friend agree that I urge members of the public to examine their policy people who have health insurance get fast-tracked, and documents and payments closely because insurance can receive a large benefit, in that they can jump waiting represent a significant cost, although it is a merit good lists? and something that we should encourage people to take out. Chris Leslie: Thankfully, Labour has shifted the terms Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): of reference for this debate, and not just in this country, Some areas of the country, including part of my where the Liberals and the Conservatives—the constituency, face significant flood risk. Does my hon. Conservatives in particular, to be fair to the Liberals—have Friend agree that such a tax increase on insurance will now accepted that the NHS is one of the jewels in the mean that people who are already paying significant crown of our welfare system. It is respected worldwide, amounts to protect their homes and lives will face an and there is no longer any attempt, or at least no overt even greater cost? If those people do not continue to attempt, by the Conservative party to unwind the change insure themselves, however, it will wreak havoc on lives that has been made, although having listened to throughout the country. Government Back Benchers, there may be some straws in the wind. I agree more with the hon. Member for Chris Leslie: My hon. Friend is entirely correct. It is Christchurch (Mr Chope) on amendment 19 on motor important that we ensure that all our liabilities are insurance. properly covered, so that the cost of our individual failings or mishaps does not fall on the general taxpayer. Mr Redwood: Was the absence of support for Responsible individuals have to insure themselves. amendments 18 and 19 from the Labour Front Benchers a sign that Labour will not vote for those two amendments? Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): My hon. Friend says that people do not shop around. Does he agree that any process of shopping around is not helped by the Chris Leslie: I have absolutely no idea. As a humble way in which insurance companies sign people up to Back Bencher, I simply make my comments and policies on standing orders with small print that allows observations. Clearly, I will happily take a lead from our that policy to be renewed without consulting the customer? Front Benchers; they are immensely sensible individuals, Even if the customer wishes to change their policy and will make their arguments. But I have my own because of a large increase in their premiums, they can observations to make about the changes. discover that the small print means that they have to let One of those observations is that there is a level of the policy run because they are required to give notice. compulsion that distinguishes motor insurance. In a way, private health insurance is an entirely discretionary Chris Leslie: That particularly pernicious practice commodity, so I suppose one could argue that paying merits much closer scrutiny. I do not know whether it is tax on it is a matter of choice, but that is not the case for allowed to happen because of a legal loophole. People drivers and for motor insurance. As the right hon. face dangers when they sign up to unending direct Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) said, in the debits, especially if they have been attracted to an case of third-party car insurance we are talking about insurance policy because of a discounted initial arrangement adding a tax on top of a charge that is effectively a but then discover that the payments have been ramped requirement in law. That raises the hackles. It makes me up. By the time they realise, from their bank statement feel aggrieved that there is a bit of opportunism on the or whatever, that the cost is so much more, it is too late part of the Treasury. It is a parasitical choice effectively to exit from the policy. I hope that any practices that tie to cream off more money from something that the customers in to such policies unnecessarily can be stopped. general public have no choice but to get. 1125 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1126

I suppose that those on the Treasury Bench might say Chris Leslie: Absolutely. A lot of people, when they that members of the public could give up driving and apply for insurance, will be asked what amount they stop purchasing cars. Perhaps that would be good for wish to have—I am trying to recall the phrase—as the the environment more widely, but in the real world, amount that one ends up paying before one can claim. people have to get around, have to get to the shops and to school, and have to commute. It is part and parcel of Gordon Banks: The excess. ordinary life. I am very worried—genuinely worried—that ratcheting up insurance premium tax on motor insurance Chris Leslie: I thank my hon. Friend for his assistance. will create a disincentive for people to comply with the On home insurance, the excess is typically £100 or £200. law, take out insurance, and ensure that the cost is Those hon. Members who are IT-literate, and who use covered if any accidents occur or harm is caused to the interweb to purchase their insurance, will realise other members of society and the wider public. that on many sites there is a little bar that one can shift 1.45 pm across the page to increase the excess to £400, £500 or more. It effectively means that people will rarely, if ever, In my constituency in Nottingham, the road safety claim against that insurance, and it thereby removes not and casualty reduction budget has taken a hit as a result only much of the cost of the initial premium, but the of the cuts announced by the Government parties. chances that they will ever use that product. Again, that Something in the order of £350 million is being taken will leave people under-insured, with poor cover, and out of that budget in this financial year alone. Clearly, it with a poor product for what could be a great expense if would not be in order for me to refer to an amendment they are broken into or have problems with internal that I have tabled that would hypothecate the revenues flooding or other damage to their property. from the motor insurance IPT increase and put that money towards road safety and casualty reduction. All In some parts of the country, particularly where there that I would say is that there are concerns in my is a flood risk, far too many people are still uninsured, constituency and elsewhere that not only are we losing and the pressure that they put on the taxpayer more money for road safety, but if we discourage people from generally to pick up the tab will be great. In some ways, taking out motor insurance, and encourage them to go the measure is a false economy by the Treasury: it down the illegal route and to drive without car insurance, discourages people from taking out insurance, yet they when there are problems and accidents, and individuals will undoubtedly be under pressure to pick up the tab in suffer trauma or are caused harm, they will struggle to flood-risk areas. recoup any compensation. That is especially regrettable. There is a rumour going around that the Treasury As I said in an intervention on the hon. Member for might also impose an extra tax on those who live in Christchurch, some young people, who may pay £1,000 or flood-risk areas in order to cover the extra costs to the even more for their insurance, may come to a rational taxpayer of flood-prevention work—yet another example yet entirely perverse judgment and say, “I’ll risk not of a crude and unfair measure. I am sure that the getting that car insurance. I’ll drive uninsured.” They Minister will be happy to tell the House that that is not will risk getting six points on their licence, and a £300 or the case and to put our minds at rest, because it would £400 fine—that is the typical amount that magistrates be a shame if such a measure were to come forward. will impose—if they are caught driving without insurance. Members on the Treasury Bench really ought to Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Will my speak to the Justice Secretary, who introduced insurance hon. Friend give way on that point? premium tax in the first place, and make representations that fines for driving without car insurance should be at Chris Leslie: Happily. least commensurate with the cost of car insurance. That is an extremely serious point. I understand that in a The First Deputy Chairman: Order. Just before that magistrates court, if an individual is fined for driving happens, can we please restrict ourselves to the Bill and without proper motor insurance and they are not earning the amendments to it? and have a very low income, the fine can be as low as £80 or £90. That gives them an even greater incentive to Geraint Davies: I shall bear that in mind. My hon. chance their arm and to go without car insurance. Friend will know that I had a previous responsibility for There are some extremely serious points here. adapting Wales to climate change in terms of flood Let me come on to the effects of insurance premium defences, and he will be interested to know that there tax on buildings insurance and contents insurance. When are literally— times are tough, many of my constituents may well look at their outgoings and think: “What could I do without? What will go first?” Clearly, they know that there are The First Deputy Chairman: Order. That is much legal obligations to pay council tax, utility bills and so wider than what we are discussing today. forth. Those things that are on the margins, such as home insurance and contents insurance, tend to go first, Chris Leslie: Those who require insurance, on which and that is extremely regrettable. Of course, adding the amendments would seek a report from the Treasury further tax to those items will speed up the decision for in order to reveal the impact not just on the Exchequer, many of my constituents, who will say, “This is becoming but on individuals, will also be concerned about their unaffordable.” contents insurance and buildings insurance, which are often where the cost of picking up reparations after Gordon Banks: My hon. Friend talks about house flooding occur. It would be wrong of me not to pay insurance. Has he considered that people might retain tribute to my hon. Friend for his work before he entered insurance, but end up being under-insured? Parliament. 1127 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1128

Geraint Davies: On that specific point about the Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Does my incidence of such insurance deals, the reality is that, as hon. Friend agree that the measure will also have an climate change progresses, the people who are caught effect on the wider economy? For example, Newcastle by such costs will often be the poorest, who are closer to airport in the north-east is a huge economic driver, and high flood-risk areas because of bad planning and the East Midlands airport, near my hon. Friend’s constituency, like. Does my hon. Friend agree that the impact of the is a huge employer. The measure could have an impact measure will be increasingly regressive? on the business of those two airports—and many others. Chris Leslie: Absolutely. My right hon. Friend the Chris Leslie: There will be consequences if, because shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury made that of the extra cost of a family holiday, our constituents point very forcefully earlier. The regressive impact of are disincentivised from going abroad or travelling. The insurance premium tax is not widely understood, but, Chancellor of the Exchequer’s imposition of a holiday when our poorest constituents take out insurance, they tax is something that I hope many travel pages in the are hit disproportionately hard, and unfortunately many Sunday newspapers and supplements will focus on, of them will decide to go without that insurance altogether. perhaps by modelling the costs for a typical family. About £400 million of travel insurance business is carried Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): I appreciate out in this country each year, and that accounts for a the hon. Gentleman’s point about a 1% rise being significant part of not only the insurance industry, but regressive, but, on his earlier point about it putting of the economy more generally. people off buying insurance, the average household insurance policy is £400 and a 1% increase will add Mr Bone: I am being won over by the hon. Gentleman’s £4 to the total cost. If someone who seriously wishes to speech. He argues very strongly against tax rises, and he insure their home is prepared to pay £400, is he really has won me over on that. Indeed, I should be happy to suggesting that an extra £4 will produce the result to vote against those increases, but, given the problem which he referred, namely that many people will no with the deficit, can he suggest some other public longer purchase insurance? expenditure savings to make up for them? Chris Leslie: The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable Chris Leslie: That is a reasonable point, but I should point, and he is right that at that level the disincentive not want to stray beyond the terms of the amendment, might well be marginal. However, my point is that there suffice it to say that the hon. Gentleman asks a reasonable is a slippery slope, and, with 1% here and 1% there, question, because if we agree to the amendments we before we know it we have 2% or more—3%, or even might be forgoing revenue to the Exchequer. My view, 4%. My right hon. Friend the shadow Chief Secretary which he may have heard before but I am happy to asked about the potential risk of aligning our insurance share with him, is that the banks should not gain premium tax arrangements with those of the wider £400 million cash-back from the corporation tax reduction European Union, and, if they are at 22% in Italy or that they will enjoy. wherever, there is a risk of a serious disincentive. So, I regard this debate as a stitch in time to put down The First Deputy Chairman: Order. a marker and say to the Government, “Don’t chance it too far. This may well feel like a small amount of Chris Leslie: Mr Evans, I felt an obligation to help money. but £10 on a motor insurance policy of £1,000 is the hon. Gentleman and hoped that, with that short quite an additional burden and not to be sniffed at.” If interjection, you would indulge me. the Government continued to ratchet up the costs in To return to my general point, insurance is not only a that way, that would be regrettable. Some of the public good, but a necessity for many of our constituents. amendments before us are very sensible, and, in asking Our constituents also often make the choice to take out for a report from the Treasury, I also urge it to consider insurance. Although I would not say that all insurance in that document the merits of a requirement on insurers policies are good value for money and although we to advertise more prominently the yield from insurance want to see more competition, I feel uncomfortable premium tax and the rate of tax that customers pay, about the constant ratcheting up of the costs to our because it is exceptionally important that our constituents constituents of compulsory insurance, particularly motor understand why they are asked to pay so much. insurance. When I consulted the Association of British Insurers 2pm about that, its representatives said that they would welcome more information on policy documentation We could see some policy initiatives on this issue. and be more than happy to work with the Treasury on Why does the Post Office not consider advertising its those matters. If the amendment is carried, and there car insurance offer more widely, given that the state and are good arguments for doing so, I hope that the the Government play a part in that offer in some ways? Minister will consider that point seriously. It would be healthier for there to be greater competition. The Government—indirectly, through Post Office The impact on travel insurance will be even greater, services—could create cheaper car insurance. Treasury given the costs for many people who travel abroad on, Ministers could talk to their colleagues at the Department perhaps, their holidays. If those people are my constituents, for Business, Innovation and Skills about that, to ensure they will often do so for one week a year, if that. that the insurance industry does not unnecessarily inflate However, all travellers are encouraged to take out travel the cost of insurance. insurance for such trips, and the rate is currently 17.5%, but it will go up by 2.5 percentage points to 20%, which is a Geraint Davies: Will my hon. Friend give way? significant amount of money, so, if we discourage our constituents from taking out insurance on their holidays Chris Leslie: I would like to make some progress, but or travel, there will again be consequences. yes, I shall give way. 1129 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1130

Geraint Davies: My hon. Friend mentioned the issue will achieve economic growth. That has meant that we of compulsion and rates. Does he agree that there is a have had to take many tough decisions to ensure that case to be made for keeping the “holiday tax”, as he put everybody makes a fair contribution. Part of that it, lower, and paying for that by making it compulsory? contribution will come from increases to the standard One could argue that it is irresponsible for people to go and higher rates of IPT. on holiday without insurance and end up with all sorts Clause 4 legislates for that by increasing the standard of problems. rate of IPT from 5% to 6% and the higher rate of IPT from 17.5% to 20%, both with effect from 4 January Chris Leslie: I hear what my hon. Friend says, but I 2011. IPT is, of course, a tax on insurers, not on their am reluctant to extend compulsion in that regard. We customers; 80% of all the insurance sold in the UK is should certainly encourage people to take out travel exempt from IPT. All long-term insurance, such as life insurance and inform them of what might befall them insurance and pensions, is exempt from IPT. My hon. should they not do so—they could be stranded abroad Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) or find themselves without adequate medical or health mentioned Conservative party policy on long-term cover, for example. I do not know whether hon. Members insurance. If he is a little patient, I am sure that my right always remember to fill in their E111 forms when they hon. and hon. Friends at the Department of Health will travel to other countries in the European Union, but say more on the subject. I just underline the point that our constituents often do not. They can find themselves IPT is not levied on long-term insurance. in significant jeopardy. In those circumstances, travel insurance is very useful. Mr Chope: Does my hon. Friend mean that if there Many people are employed in the insurance industry, was an opportunity for somebody to pay £8,000 for and if there are disincentives against our constituents’ long-term insurance, that would not be subject to IPT taking out decent, high-quality policies there will be an in the circumstances set out in the original Conservative impact on the insurance sector and the financial services party manifesto? sector more widely. The financial services sector, including insurance, is one of the great industries of our country. Mr Gauke: What I can say is that given how IPT is It has been subject to a lot of criticism, and we can talk currently structured and where it is levied, it does not about that on another occasion, but it is important that apply to long-term insurance; the conclusion to be we should not take steps that harm the products that we drawn about something that falls within the definition consume in this country and sell worldwide. of long-term insurance is fairly logical. I conclude by reiterating to the Treasury the importance However, in respect of the types of insurance that are of assessing the impact of the insurance premium tax affected, insurers have the right to respond to the tax as increase on our constituents and the Revenue. We do they see fit. They are not obliged to pass on IPT not know from the Red Book how the £455 million through higher premiums. [Interruption.] We recognise annual yield precisely breaks down between pensioners, that many insurers will pass it on to their customers young people and beyond. My right hon. Friend the through higher premiums, but I will not be dragged into shadow Chief Secretary says that the impact on pensioners the detail of the amendment tabled by the hon. Member will be significant and I take his word for that. That for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie). issue is a great worry. These are serious matters and I The question was asked whether further regulation hope that the Treasury and other hon. Members will should be imposed on insurers, making them display hear some of the points shared across both sides of the prominently how much is being paid in IPT. Unlike Chamber today. VAT, IPT is a tax on insurance, so there is no obligation to pass it on or to recover it for businesses. We do not The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David think that that would be appropriate. Insurers are, of Gauke): We have had a wide-ranging debate on clause 4 course, perfectly free to display the IPT rate on and the amendments tabled to it; I am sure, Mr Evans, documentation, and many do so. Requiring them to do that you want to hear its conclusion. I was grateful to so, however, would be burdensome and unnecessary. hear the contribution made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), who highlighted Mr Byrne: Will the Minister remind the Committee the freedom given to Government Back Benchers in of something? On the two or three previous occasions Committee debates. I hope that my remarks will persuade when IPT has been increased, how much of the increase my hon. Friends not to make full use of that latitude. was passed straight on to consumers? We shall see. The amendments are concerned with the general Mr Gauke: I am not denying that we expect the impact of the rise in the standard rate of insurance increase to be passed on predominantly to consumers; premium tax, particularly in respect of its impact on we expect that the bulk of it will be. The analysis of personal health insurance and the motor industry. I will VAT, another indirect tax, shows that two thirds tends come to those issues in detail in due course. Before I do to be passed on straight away and that much of the rest so, I propose to set before the Committee the reasons is passed on over the following 12 months. However, it behind the course that we have chosen. is not always possible to predict and it partly depends Reducing the deficit and ensuring economic recovery on the level of competition. are the most urgent issues facing the UK and they are the Government’s top priority. In the words of the Gordon Banks: I just want to make a simple point. shadow Business Secretary, it is no good wishing the deficit The Minister is saying that he expects consumers to pay away; it is only by acting quickly to tackle the deficit twice—once through increased premiums and once through and restore confidence in the public finances that we increased IPT. Does he find that acceptable? 1131 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1132

Mr Gauke: That is not what I am saying. I am saying the health service and reducing expenditure on bureaucracy. that the increase in insurance premium tax, which is We are also, as a Government, protecting the NHS from payable by insurers, is likely to be passed on to consumers. spending cuts, which is not, as I understand it, a policy We are not denying that; in simple terms, we need the endorsed by Labour. The purpose behind this tax increase money. is clearly to raise more revenue—it is not an attempt to Even if the increases to the standard and higher rates try to dissuade people from taking out private health of IPT are passed on in full, the impacts will be very insurance. modest, costing households less than 20p a week on average and businesses an average of less than 0.01% of Thomas Docherty: The Minister claims that the annual turnover, even for smaller businesses. Government are protecting the NHS. Is he aware that all the health boards in Scotland have written to their Mr Kevan Jones: I am not sure whether the hon. employees to inform them that following the cuts that Gentleman has renewed his car insurance or household his Government are making, the NHS in Scotland will policy recently, but he will find that most insurance have significant job losses? policies make it clear exactly how much tax is paid, so I do not think it is the case that they will withhold the Mr Gauke: Of course health care in Scotland is a increase and not pass it on to the consumer. devolved matter, and you will not want me to digress on that, Mr Hoyle, but the fact is that health care spending Mr Gauke: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for will go up in real terms under this Government. That is underlining an earlier point that I made—that it is not not, as I understand it, a policy that is supported by the necessary to introduce regulation in this area. As I say, official Opposition. we anticipate that it will be passed on, but it is not mandatory. I am not denying that position. 2.15 pm Despite these modest impacts, the IPT rate increases Mr Chope: My hon. Friend framed his policy in will contribute more than £450 million a year to reducing rather negative terms by saying that the Government the deficit. As I said, such decisions have been forced on did not disapprove of health insurance and did not us by the economic circumstances that the UK finds want to prohibit or deter it. Can he be a bit more itself in, and they have not been taken lightly. We are positive and say that it is their policy to try to encourage confident, however, that this modest rise in IPT, which people to take responsibility for their own insurance, on leaves the main rate of the tax significantly lower than similar lines to the Secretary of State for Transport that of many of our European competitors, is a means saying that he wishes people to take responsibility for of raising much-needed revenue that will not have a paying their own bus fares, despite their having bus significant impact on households, businesses or the passes, if they can afford so to do? insurance industry. Mr Gauke: As a Government—I am sure that this is a Mr Byrne: The Minister is making an argument principle that my hon. Friend would support—we believe about choices that are made in order to increase revenue, in giving people choice, and that is what we will do. We but I think the Committee is struggling to understand have set out our policies in that context, and I am the reason for the increase in the standard rate of IPT. merely underlining this Government’s commitment to Other choices were available. Why have increases in the national health service. cider duty been withdrawn, for example, while new The combined effect of the amendments tabled by taxes are being introduced on insurance? my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch would be to slow down fiscal consolidation. Through the Budget Mr Gauke: The central point is that the country is in and this particular measure, the Government are trying a very difficult position as regards the public finances. I to get our deficit under control, and slowing it down hope that the shadow Chief Secretary is grateful for the would not be an appropriate step. fact that I have got this far through a speech without once referring to his letter. With another intervention, I Chris Leslie: Specifically in terms of the contribution may be tempted to do so. We have made a series of to fiscal consolidation, how much of the yield from the judgments. If he thinks that cider duty is the way to increase in IPT will come from the motorist via car reduce the deficit, I suggest that he is somewhat mistaken. insurance? Amendment 18 would exempt personal health insurance from the increase in the standard rate of IPT, and Mr Gauke: If I may, I will provide a little more amendment 19 would do the same in relation to motor information breaking down the numbers in a moment insurance. In effect, that would mean creating a new or so, and we shall see whether that is specific enough reduced rate of IPT that applied only to private medical for the hon. Gentleman. insurance and motor insurance. Of course, the Government Exempting motor insurance from the IPT rise would recognise the value of these types of insurance and, reduce revenue by £160 million a year, and exempting indeed, of insurance more generally. medical insurance would reduce it by a further £40 million. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch Taken together, those figures total £200 million—nearly that we do not disapprove of people taking out private £1 billion over the lifetime of the Parliament. That medical insurance—that is not something we wish to would leave us with quite a shortfall, and a couple of prohibit, either in law or by imposing enormous costs options. First, we could raise £1 billion from elsewhere. on it. In health policy, our focus is of course on improving We have to be open about the fact that the purpose of the national health service, and we have this week set the IPT rise is to raise revenue, and if we were to look to out important proposals on improving the quality of raise the outstanding £1 billion through IPT, that would 1133 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1134 mean increasing very considerably the rate of tax on the I am sure that if it happens the hon. Gentleman will remaining classes of insurance. For reasons that I will come back to the House to highlight it. Many within set out, we do not think that that is the right way to go. the insurance industry have themselves acknowledged The second option is to leave ourselves with £1 billion that the rises are very modest and will not have a outstanding, which would leave us further away from significant impact on households or on the take-up of plugging the deficit, with all the risks that that entails. insurance. We are certain that that is not the right way to go. I turn now to amendment 15, which would make the It has always been a principle of IPT that the tax IPT rise announced in Budget contingent on the publication applies to a relatively broad base of general insurance, of an assessment of the effect of the rate rise on with few exceptions. That broad base allows us to keep consumers and the insurance industry. We believe it is the standard rate of the tax low by international standards. unnecessary. I have set out fairly comprehensively in Even at the new rate of 6%, the UK’s standard rate of this debate the expected impact on households and IPT is far lower than in, say, Germany, where it is businesses—in broad terms, that impact will be minimal. 18% for property and 19% for motor insurance, or I should also point out to hon. Members the considerable France, where it is 9% for property and 18% for motor amount of information on the impact of the Budget insurance. Narrowing the base of the tax through specific that we have already put in the public domain. In exemptions of the type that my hon. Friend the Member particular, for the first time the Government have set for Christchurch suggests would put that low rate at out their analysis of the distributional impact on households risk. of the Budget measures, including the IPT rate changes, To respond to the perfectly fair question of the in annex A of the Red Book. Separately, other organisations shadow Chief Secretary, the fact that we have announced such as the Association of British Insurers have given the increase should not be taken as a signal that we estimates of the impact of the rise on households, intend to harmonise tax levels with those elsewhere. To which are very much in line with our own estimates. quote what the shadow Chancellor used to say, we Naturally, the industry and consumers do not like the always keep taxes under review and it would be daft to rises, and we do not like having to introduce them, but rule things out, but this increase should not be taken as the industry accepts that they are going to happen and a signal of an ongoing programme of further increases. is preparing accordingly. We do not take any pleasure in introducing this tax Finally, I wish to address amendment 48 which, as rise, even though the reasons for it are clear. However, the shadow Chief Secretary said, is a probing amendment by keeping a broad base of tax within general insurance, aimed at exploring the reasons for the rise and its we are able to raise revenue so as to cut the deficit, while impacts. He asked a specific question about the balance keeping the increases at a level that will not have any between the standard and higher rates. For 2010-11— significant impact on the number of people buying Members should remember that the rate increases will insurance. occur in January 2011—the revenue raised will be £110 million from the standard rate and £5 million from Thomas Docherty: Has the Treasury done any work the higher rate. For the following years, the higher rate to enable it to hazard a guess as to how many people will raise £25 million each year, with the balance made will not now take out motor or health insurance as a up from the standard rate, which in most years raises result of the rise? £450 million. The shadow Chief Secretary also asked about the Mr Gauke: We do not believe the rise will have a reason for the increase in the higher rate from 17.5% to noticeable effect on the number of people taking out 20%. As he correctly surmised, it is to do with value insurance, but I know that hon. Members are concerned shifting and the fact that travel insurance is often sold about the impact of the IPT rises on households. I have with other products on which VAT is payable. A discrepancy already set out the average impact on households. between the IPT on travel insurance and other rates Specifically in the case of the insurance covered by may create dangers of value shifting, and that is the amendments 18 and 19, the IPT rate increase will add reason for the proposal. only about £6 a year to the average motor insurance premium, and for those who buy private medical insurance Mr Chope rose— the rise will cost less than £10 a year on average. Consequently, it is difficult to make the case that the Mr Gauke: It is always a pleasure to hear from my increase will prove much of a deterrent to people taking hon. Friend. out motor insurance or private medical insurance. Consumers are well used to insurance premiums fluctuating, Mr Chope: Will my hon. Friend spell out the yield and the modest effects of the rise will not act as any from IPT on motor insurance and health insurance, significant deterrent. which amendments 18 and 19 cover? Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): The Exchequer Secretary says that the rise will not be a deterrent, but it Mr Gauke: As I said earlier, the cost of my hon. will certainly provide an incentive to people who pass Friend’s amendment to exempt motor insurance from the tax on to the consumer to increase charges over and the IPT rise would reduce revenue by £160 million a above the amount in question and then blame the year, and exempting medical insurance would decrease Government for it, as we have seen with so many other revenue by a further £40 million a year. I hope that that taxes. is helpful. The increase is necessary. It is an attempt to bring our Mr Gauke: Let us see what happens. I am not sure deficit under control. We need to make some tough that the evidence necessarily supports that concern, but decisions, and that is one. 1135 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1136

Mr Chope: It is my pleasure to respond to an excellent from social security, because they are covered by the debate and I thank everybody who has participated in insurance. Does he accept that the amount of money it. At the beginning, other hon. Members and I conceded involved is hardly likely to act as a disincentive? that the sums of money involved were relatively small, but we were concerned about the messages that were Mr Chope: The answer is yes; I would wish to extend being sent. I am rather disappointed by the Exchequer my argument. However, I tabled two specific amendments Secretary’s failure to engage with that part of the argument. so that we could have a focused debate. It has become It is one thing to say that the Government do not apparent in the course of the debate—I did not know disapprove of health insurance, will not prohibit it and this before—that about half the yield from the IPT do not wish to deter people from taking it out, but all increase will be from motor and health insurance premiums, those who take out private health insurance help not and about half from other insurance, such as household only themselves but the country. insurance. My hon. Friend kept saying that our commitment— meaning the coalition Government’s commitment—is I am concerned that in my constituency, particularly to the NHS, but surely it should be to the health of the as a result of the rather reckless behaviour of the nation. That depends on money going into health care Environment Agency, there is a blight on a number of and health protection from a mixture of sources. Some houses, whose owners find either that they cannot access will come from taxpayers, and an increasing proportion flood risk insurance or that that insurance is much more in my view should come from private individuals and expensive than it used to be. Because of how IPT works, companies—we are also talking about company health the state benefits from the latter outcome through extra insurance schemes. My hon. Friend had the opportunity income, and there is an extra burden on householders. to say to companies that have health insurance schemes Some very important points were made by Members for their employees, “Thanks very much indeed for your who are concerned about household insurance. It was contribution; that takes a burden off the NHS.” He had open to anybody to table similar amendments, but I the opportunity to tell those who take out private tabled two to focus the debate. The hon. Member for health insurance or self-insure and pay for their health Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) did the House a service by care, “Thanks very much; you are relieving the state of tabling an amendment that calls for a proper analysis so a burden.” He did not. I do not know whether that was that the House can know the full implications of the a deliberate omission or unintentional. proposals before we are asked whether we support them. I am concerned about the messages that are being conveyed about the direction of travel and I am slightly We have spent two hours discussing this matter, but bewildered about whether the coalition Government we have still not really heard from the Government are wholeheartedly enthusiastic about people taking about the direction of travel. We certainly have not responsibility for as much of their own lives as they can, heard whether the principles so articulately described depending on their financial ability. If we are trying to by my right hon. Friend the Transport Secretary—he build a responsible society, we should encourage people spoke of people who can afford to pay their fare using to take responsibility for all aspects of their lives and free bus passes—apply throughout the coalition should not force them to feel that they should depend Government, and to those who take responsibility for on the state. their health care, education or other aspects of their We should certainly not encourage a state of mind lives. whereby people think that they are being antisocial by not depending on the state. We have almost reached a Thomas Docherty: On private health care, does the stage when, if somebody says that they have private hon. Gentleman accept that people receive a premium health insurance or that they send their children to service, and that it is therefore only right that they pay a independent schools, while paying through their taxes premium tax? Does he also accept that health care for state education for everybody else, the Government provides only 10% of the total IPT raised? frown on them. It is too late in this debate, but I hope that the coalition Government will send out a much Mr Chope: People take out private health insurance, more positive message about the virtues of self-help and which might be through a scheme in their firm, because responsibility and of people not being dependent on the they want access to health care that is currently not state. There are many definitions of what may or may available. I gave some examples in my opening remarks not amount to the big society, but if it means anything of people in my constituency choosing to take out to me, it is encouraging people to do their own thing health insurance. A very large number of my constituents and having much smaller state involvement and, ultimately, pay for various procedures and operations. They insure lower taxes. themselves because they believe that they can access those procedures when they need them rather than 2.30 pm when the state tells them they can have them. Sammy Wilson: I am listening intently to the hon. The essence of the argument is that countries with Gentleman. Would he extend his argument to, for the highest standards of health care are the ones that example, household insurance and the whole range of encourage higher non-taxpayer funded input into health insurance premium tax? As was pointed out earlier care. That is what I am trying to get across. I might be in the debate, people insure their houses against unable to persuade the hon. Gentleman, but I hope that flooding and fire, for example. There is therefore I might start to persuade members of the coalition no burden on the state in the event of flooding, Government on the virtues of people taking responsibility because the insurance companies carry it, and if a for their health care, thereby relieving the burden on the house catches fire, people do not have to look for a loan NHS. 1137 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1138

Mark Hendrick: Does the hon. Gentleman accept insurance premiums, we could have an individual that the private health system is not independent? It is transaction tax so that every motorist would pay the actually dependent on the national health service, and same tax for his annual insurance premium. the vast majority of private health staff were trained and qualified in the NHS. The 6% we are talking about Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is right to return to this is quite small when it comes to disincentives for people point, and I apologise for not responding to it in my to use the private health system. earlier remarks. If we took that approach on a revenue- neutral basis, we would end up essentially with the same Mr Chope: The hon. Gentleman demonstrates his old transaction tax level on a big and small car—whether a socialist credentials and his prejudice. I shall not get Bentley or a Skoda, we would have the same transaction into a full debate about the NHS, as I hope that we will tax. Is that what he is advocating? That itself would be have an opportunity to do so when the private Member’s regressive. Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone)—which I support—is debated Mr Chope: I was not thinking about Bentleys versus on a Friday in February. Let us not forget that many of Skodas; I was thinking about the student living in our top clinicians stay in this country because they can Liverpool trying to run a vehicle that is perhaps 10 or supply their services to the NHS—[Interruption.] Yes, 15-years-old and finding it hard to make ends meet, and they do so for money, but they can also top up their about the person who might have several Bentleys in the income by getting money for providing their services to garage covered under some collective insurance. I am private patients. That mixed market in health care provision, concerned about those living in high-risk areas or who including the providers of health care, is healthy for our are in high-risk groups—because they are young drivers, country and I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman does for example—whose insurance premiums are significantly not support it. That is a philosophical divide, but I higher than those of, for example, the person whom my think that we need the best health practitioners in this right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire country. The private health insurance companies make (Mr Knight) mentioned who is in their mid-50s and a significant contribution to the health of the nation. happens to own a Bentley. I do not think that, prima I shall not go through all the contributions that were facie, that is fair. I was throwing out a challenge to my made in this debate, but I wish to touch on the motor hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary to see whether an insurance issue, which found most common cause across individual transaction tax that is not related to the size the Committee. Because the right hon. Member for of the premium might produce a fairer result. It seems Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) did not seem to be as though it might not, but perhaps we can correspond committed to the idea of protecting the motorists— on that so that we can take the matter forward. especially young motorists and those from areas with We have covered a lot of ground in this debate, and I high insurance premiums—and did not say that he have already expressed my disappointment. The question would support my amendment, he has created a slight now arises of whether we should seek to divide the difficulty for me. Committee on the proposals. I live in hope—perhaps I am naive—that in due course we will get a better and Mr Byrne: My ambition this afternoon was simply to more positive response from the coalition to questions tease out from the Government the principle behind the of responsibility and encouraging people to do the right increase in IPT. The hon. Gentleman may be able to thing, and that it will send out those positive measures. help me with this, but I think that I detected that the To seek a Division would probably be counter-productive ambition was simply revenue raising. Was that his because, apart from anything else, I would have to pick interpretation too? one, rather than both, of my amendments, which would Mr Chope: The right hon. Gentleman has deployed mean picking on one particular type of insurance premium an old trick. Instead of responding to my challenge, he tax as against another. I am not sure that that is has put a challenge back to me. He has listened to the necessarily in accordance with the will of the Committee, same debate as I have, and the Government need to so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. raise money because—as he so candidly recognised—there Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. is no money left. That is one of the reasons behind the insurance premium tax. Mr Chope: On a point of order, Mr Hoyle. It seems as though right hon. and hon. Members in the Opposition Mr Byrne: The hon. Gentleman is being slightly did not realise that it was open to them to object to the unfair. We had a very different approach to introducing withdrawal of an amendment if they wished to vote £19 billion of new taxes. The Government have chosen on it. a different course, but they have had to raise so much in VAT and IPT because the Budget so slows down the The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): recovery that £9 billion in extra taxes will have to be It is too late to object now, so let us proceed. raised to make up for the lost growth. Clause 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Mr Chope: I shall not get involved in that debate now, because I want to keep the focus on the narrow issues in Clause 5 my amendments. I am disappointed that the Minister did not respond to my concern—echoed by the hon. POWER TO REPEAL HIGH INCOME EXCESS RELIEF Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) and others— CHARGE about the regressive nature of the insurance premium tax, especially on the motoring public. One suggestion I Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I beg to move made was that instead of having a standard tax on amendment 60, page 3, line 9, at end add— 1139 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1140

[Ms Angela Eagle] The tax treatment allows tax-free saving and tax-free investment growth, as well as the taking of a tax-free ‘(4) An order under this section may only be made once the lump sum on retirement of up to 25% of the fund. Treasury has published a report, including— There are also valuable tax incentives for employer (a) the outline for the proposed replacement arrangement contributions to pension saving, which is a recognition— for the provisions contained in Schedule 2 to the long supported by Members in all parts of the House—that Finance Act 2010; it is more efficient for pensions to be provided on a (b) a distributional analysis showing the likely impact of collective rather than an individual basis. The favourable the proposed replacement arrangement; and tax treatment is also a recognition in wider society that pension saving involves a deferral of current income, (c) the revenue implications of the proposed replacement arrangement.’. which is always difficult to maintain in what is a consumer- oriented society, where all the temptations tend towards The Chairman: With this it will be convenient to instant rather than delayed gratification. discuss clause stand part. Chris Leslie indicated assent.

Ms Eagle: The amendment seeks to delay the making Ms Eagle: My hon. Friend responds to my mention of any order under clause 5 until the Treasury has of instant gratification, but obviously it is in all our published a report that outlines the proposed replacement interests as a society to recognise that there is merit in for the provisions in section 23 of, and schedule 2 to, the assisting people to save for their retirement, so that they Finance Act 2010, a distributional analysis of the impact can avoid being reliant on benefits in their old age. As a of the proposed arrangement and the revenue implications result of the welcome increases in longevity, which have of the replacement provisions themselves. Clause 5 been a feature of our success as a society since the war, creates a power to remove the paving legislation that the average period of retirement is becoming longer and would have enabled the so-called high income excess longer. Indeed, history recalls that when old-age pensions relief charge to be levied in time to be collected in were first created 100 years ago, the life expectancy of April 2011. That was legislated for in section 23 of, and those due to access them was a mere one year after they schedule 2 to, what I suppose we must now call the first had been lucky enough to qualify. Clearly, by the time Finance Act of 2010, given that we look to be on course pension saving and old-age pensions became more to pass three of them this year. I never thought that I widespread after the second world war, the time had would be comparing Finance Acts to buses—none come gone up considerably to seven or eight years. It is now along for ages and then three come along at once—but 20-odd years for men and—gratifyingly for females—even it looks like 2010 is going to demonstrate the similarity. longer for women. We are only in the middle of discussing Finance Bill issues in this Session, and obviously we will resume with That shows that there are issues about longevity in part two later in the year. society and about how to adapt our pensions arrangements to recognise that we live in what is often referred to as “an ageing society”. I believe that it is a great triumph 2.45 pm of our organisation of society. Although it presents us However, back to the provisions before us. The original with some difficult issues of policy and affordability, it legislation, which was passed by the previous, Labour should not be seen or ever portrayed as a problem; nor Government, was announced in the 2009 Budget and should the fact that these days many more pensioners slightly extended in scope in the 2009 pre-Budget report. reach retirement age and live longer be seen as representing The idea was to have restricted tax relief on pension some kind of burden on our society. After all, we all contributions for those earning £150,000 or over, who aspire—as I am sure you do, Mr Hoyle—to reaching are the top 2% of earners in the country. The policy retirement age and enjoying an extremely happy, long would have tapered that relief as earnings rose, so that and hopefully prosperous retirement. That is what we by the time earnings were at £180,000, the relief on are dealing with when we tackle the issue of pension tax pension savings would be the same as that for a basic relief. rate taxpayer, which is currently 20%. The measure was I was pointing out that pension tax relief is more scored in the 2009 pre-Budget report as creating a total generous than the relief in many other areas of saving. yield of £3.6 billion in 2012-13. It was calculated that it That is because there are great benefits in encouraging would affect 300,000 people at the very top of the people to save for their own pension, despite the fact income scale, leaving 98% of taxpayers unaffected. that they are putting money away to which they often In order to understand the effect of changes to pension cannot gain access for many years; and also because it is tax relief, we need to understand how it has developed more effectively and efficiently done if it can be done and how it is distributed. I propose to spend a little time collectively. That is why Government incentives, in the outlining that, so that we can explore the precise effect form of tax reliefs, have always featured in the system. of clause 5 as drafted, which completely takes away the This form of tax relief is often referred to as EET. previous policy. The tax relief available on pension This is not a stuttering, Steven Spielberg sci-fi film; it saving in the UK is generous. As many hon. Members stands for exempt, exempt, taxed. That means that as will know, it was originally introduced to support people savings are put away from income, they are exempt from seeking to produce an income for their retirement, in tax. Any investment growth that comes from investment the recognition that these people are locking away resources in those funds is also exempt from tax—that is the in an inflexible way, which is obviously what pensions second E. The T, of course, is the thing that many do. People cannot easily access those resources earlier people worry about—the fact that as these savings are than the retirement age, which is usually not for many taken as an income stream when retirement happens, years. taxation applies again at that stage. 1141 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1142

I doubt whether any Member on either side of the income tax mean that if action were not taken, this House would quibble with the very generous tax incentives massively and already grossly regressive relief would put in place over many years by Governments of all become even more distorted. That is why my right hon. hues, colours and sorts—whether they be coalitions or Friend the shadow Chancellor, in the pre-Budget report otherwise—to privilege such tax savings. However, as 2009 and the Budget 2009, decided that action had to be that has developed, certain features have brought about taken to deal with the relief, which had become unforeseen consequences and have not proved to be in unsustainable and extremely unfair. It was therefore the best interests of fairness or equity. necessary to have a policy response at the medium and To establish the size of the issue and to put into low-earning end of the income scale as well as a policy perspective the amounts of money that we are dealing for the very high end. It is the policy for the very high with under this clause, let me reveal—although I am end that is being repealed in clause 5, but I want to sure that many Members will already know—that the spend a tiny amount of time dealing with the policy at gross annual cost of pension tax relief for the financial the low and medium end. year 2008-09 was £28.4 billion, which at a full 2% of The decision to create the national employment savings gross domestic product is a not insubstantial amount. trust was an essential part of the rebalancing of pension Net of the tax on pension income—the T part of tax reliefs to ensure that they could effectively stretch EET—and also of the national insurance contribution further down the income distribution. Members will relief for employers, which are also granted by the recall that the creation of what is now known as NEST Treasury, the figure was £18.9 billion. Therefore, the net was the outcome of a great deal of work across party cost of that tax relief for pension savings is close to lines from 2004 to design a system of pension savings £19 billion. Again, that is not an insubstantial amount that would deal with the obvious market failure in the of money or revenue forgone by the Treasury. private sector of the ability to allow low and medium Another feature of the net figure is how it has been earners to save in a worthwhile way in a low-cost growing in the past few years, having doubled since savings vehicle. 1998-99. From being reasonably stable, it has gone up very quickly in a relatively short space of time when we 3pm think about life spans and the development of pensions NEST was first brought into the structure of pension policy in this area. That change has been accompanied savings as a result of the work of the Turner commission. by a change in the distribution of the beneficiaries of The commission sat for two years and produced huge the tax relief, so there was a very strong case for taking reports. Anyone who wishes to inform themselves about action to put it on a more sustainable and fairer footing, the policy issues surrounding the thorny problems of and that is what we were doing with the tax law that increased longevity and the ageing of our society, and clause 5 seeks to repeal by order. their implications for our policy approach as an advanced, It is a feature of the system, which I am not sure sophisticated and modern welfare state, should read the could be avoided without putting huge restrictions on evidence and pronouncements of the Turner commission. it, that tax relief for pension savings is granted at a It is the best available analysis and narrative of those marginal rate. By definition, that means that it is more complex issues. It led to two pieces of pension legislation: valuable for higher rate taxpayers than for basic rate the Pensions Acts of 2007 and 2008. They put in place a taxpayers. Analysis has shown that the relief was structure that will create automatic enrolment for people, increasingly benefiting those on the very highest incomes a compulsory employer contribution and—importantly rather than just those on higher rates. So, paradoxically, for the subject of pensions tax relief and to this debate—a over time, the very reasonable and logical policy of Government contribution alongside the money that granting tax exemptions on savings for pensions meant individuals put into the NEST or any other pension that the incentive to save for a pension was being structure through which a company chooses to make provided, at a cost to all taxpayers, to those who needed provision for its workers. This is an essential part of it the least because they were the most well-off. That is rebalancing the pensions tax reliefs and the extremely the definition of “regressive” in terms of how tax relief regressive skew that I have identified as a feature of the might hit. The fact that the system was becoming even present system. more distorted, benefiting those in the very top income Automatic enrolment in the scheme is due to begin in brackets, was illustrated by a distributional analysis of 2012, but that is subject to a review that was announced the benefits, which revealed that higher rate taxpayers by the new Government. Given the approach to low-cost received 65% of the relief but constituted only 19% of pension saving, the fact of automatic enrolment, and pensions savers. the creation of a low-cost vehicle that makes saving The real distortions were at the very, very top, as worth while and does not eat into the savings of people those on the very highest incomes were benefiting even on modest or low incomes through commission and more disproportionately. Analysis shows that about costs, I hope that Members on both sides of the House 2% of savers currently receive a quarter—25%—of all will still agree that this should go forward. A great deal the tax relief available. I hope that the Minister will of work went into creating that consensus, and it is agree that that is unjustifiable. It means that if a person important, given that pension policy has to be developed is privileged enough to be in the top 2% of earners by over many years, that we maintain it across party divides, income, they are entitled to an average of £20,000 of tax however much fun they might be at whatever time of relief per year per person on their pension savings, the day or night. It is important that we keep the big whereas the average relief available for those who are on picture in mind and begin to develop a coherent approach the basic rate of tax is just £1,000. to pension savings. The way in which the relief is granted, its connection My firm belief is that the creation of the low-cost to the income tax system—the fact that it is at the vehicle, the NEST, will go ahead, and I hope that this marginal rate—and the introduction of the 50p rate for landmark reform will ensure that, from 2012 onwards, 1143 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1144 up to 10 million people will get the chance to save into a allowance, which is £225,000. No mention is made of pension with a guaranteed employer contribution and the lifetime allowance. The Minister will be aware that Government tax relief available for the first time ever. there is the annual allowance but also the lifetime By definition, that will begin to reduce some of the allowance for pension savings. I would be extremely skewed and regressive distribution of pension tax relief interested in any observations that she may have on the that is a feature of our system at the moment. Government’s attitude to the lifetime allowance. Is it to The measure will also begin to build a robust savings be kept the same, increased, or perhaps indexed in a vehicle, which will finally guarantee the end of the different way to the one that we established? current market failure that locks those on moderate The lifetime allowance is certainly an important part earnings out of viable opportunities to save in a pension. of any debate about these matters, yet the Government It will also ensure that access to appropriate tax relief have gone all coy about it. They have mentioned a can be more evenly spread. There remains an issue, potential range for huge reductions in the annual allowance, however, over the distorted distribution of pension tax but they have not been forthcoming about their plans to relief towards those at the very top of the income scale. replace the high-income excess relief charges, which we That is what section 23 and schedule 2 to the Finance legislated for in paragraph 23 of schedule 2 to the Act 2010 were designed to deal with. Those provisions Finance Act 2010. The Government are not at all were specifically targeted at those on the highest incomes forthcoming about the lifetime allowance, which is why who had done so well in the good years. We felt it right the amendment is trying to get a bit more information that those people should contribute most to the fiscal out of them. consolidation that we all knew had to happen in the aftermath of the credit crunch. This was a progressive Geraint Davies: In terms of the public finances, measure that began to address the distortions that had £3.6 billion is a massive amount to be raised in a very developed in the system. It also explicitly and deliberately tight period, so given that there is so much uncertainty targeted the very richest to bear most of the burden of and change around the Government’s proposals, does the redistribution of pension saving tax relief. That my hon. Friend accept that they present an enormous gives the lie to the propaganda and constant refrain risk? From the viewpoint of the industry, it appears that from Government Members that the Labour Government the Government are playing fast and loose and are had no plans for a fiscal consolidation. The measure undermining the confidence of the financial markets was an important part of our plan to halve the deficit and credit rating organisations in their capability to over the lifetime of this Parliament. manage our economy or their finances. Clause 5 creates the power to repeal by order all the paving legislation put in place by the policy approach Ms Eagle: My hon. Friend raises an extremely important that I have described. Page 36 of the Red Book hints at point and I obviously look forward to the contribution the new Government’s intention to deal with this matter. that he will make to our debate in due course. If he It says: looks at the amendment he will see that the point of it is “The Government will continue with plans it inherited to raise to try to get more detail about what is in the Government’s revenues from restricting pensions tax relief.” mind. The time scale for putting the provisions in place So that much we can certainly welcome, and even agree is extremely short in relation to the beginning of the on. The Red Book continues: new financial year—a point to which I shall return. “The Government is committed to protecting the public finances The amendment would provide that an order that by introducing reforms that raise no less revenue than existing completely repealed all the paving legislation and all the plans.” work to put into effect the higher earnings charge would That amount, as I have already explained, is £3.6 billion not be allowed until Parliament has more idea of at by 2012-13. The yield is likely to be maintained at that least the outline for the proposed replacement arrangements. level or even go higher in the future. From the scoring There are some coy little hints in the Red Book but not that we did in government, it had a slow start in the first much else to go on—certainly no detail—if we are to year—£0.2 billion—while the system was put into place, repeal an already organised charge that has been well and went up to £3.5 billion and would remain at that consulted on. The amendment also provides for a kind of level, but get gradually higher in the future. The distributional analysis to show Red Book does not feature any scorecard implications, I “the likely impact of the proposed replacement arrangement; assume because the Government have said that they and…the revenue implications of the proposed replacement will be replacing our yield like for like. They have not arrangement.” predicted what the yield for its replacement policy, I accept that the Government have said that they want whatever that might be, will amount to. One would have to replicate the yield, but as my hon. Friend correctly thought that it would be at least maintained at £3.6 billion pointed out, the yield is not an insubstantial amount and probably go higher over time. and it rises quickly. In the tax year 2012-13, a yield of The sum of £3.6 billion is a significant amount of fully £3.6 billion for the replacement measure is already money to get in by 2012-13. The Red Book goes on to on the Budget scorecard. hint at, but gives no firm details of, the approach that The planned yield is a considerable sum and the might be in the Government’s mind as a replacement Government need to reassure us that they are not for the scheme for which we legislated. That approach, putting it at risk by ripping up all the work that has according to paragraph 1.118 on page 36 of the Red been done to implement the original policy since it was Book, is to guarantee the same yield by substantial announced in 2009. There are clear dangers in destroying reductions in the annual allowance. The ballpark area all that work, wiping it off the statute book and starting that it mentions for those reductions is between £30,000 and again from scratch so close to when the change is meant £45,000. That is a significant reduction from the current to come in, not least because of the tight time scales as 1145 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1146 we approach the start of the financial year 2011-12, when many people are struggling as a result of the when collection of the revenue is meant to begin. The bankers’ decisions, it is outrageous that the Government Red Book states: wish to reward those very bankers by giving them such “The Government wishes to engage employers, pension schemes, big pension breaks? experts and other interested parties to determine the best design of a regime.” Ms Eagle: I certainly understand that anger, and I That does not fill me with confidence that the Government suspect that there will be even more anger if the Government have the first clue about how their policy intent can be do not address the unfair way in which the distribution changed into an actual tax change. It is a complex area of the pension tax relief has developed, especially since and they have only a small period to get the measure the simplification from A-day in 2006. We tried to right. address the problem by targeting the people at the very I assume that the powers will have to be legislated for top who had benefited the most from the relief in in the September Finance Bill; perhaps the Economic particular. Secretary can tell me when she replies to the debate. We received representations from stakeholders who There is not much time—probably only the summer—so called for a simpler system, and it would be wrong of I hope she will have a holiday, but I am not sure quite me to try to claim that the system for which we legislated how that will turn out if she is put in charge of sorting was simple—it was clearly complex. However, when out the proposals in an appropriate time. Her officials dealing with people on very high earnings who use could get no break at all. To be honest, as they contemplate complex financial arrangements, we often find that that their second or third Finance Bill of the year, her complexity must be matched to ensure that a fair amount officials will probably need a break as much as she does. of tax is taken from them. In tax and benefit law, as the While there is not a lot of time left, there is an awful lot Economic Secretary will know—she probably struggles of yield at stake if the Government get this wrong, and with this every day—there is always a trade-off between that is what we are exploring through amendment 60. simplification and fairness, as well as yield. We took the view that despite the complexities of the system that we 3.15 pm were introducing, it was right to target very high earners in particular. I state the distributional analysis again: Parliament deserves a much firmer idea of what is in the top 300,000 people receive 25% of £18.9 billion. No the Government’s mind before it jettisons a well-prepared right-thinking person in this country with any kind of and well-signalled change that has already involved a understanding of what the term “fairness” means would good deal of consultation, design, and stakeholder and want us to tolerate that kind of distribution. legislative work. The tax regime to collect the suitably named high income excess relief charge is to be abolished Simplification is always a popular cry, but there are although it has already been consulted on and legislated trade-offs, and it causes different problems if we create for. There have also been impact assessments, stakeholder a simpler system. We did consider other options, but the engagement and consultation documents, so all people trade-offs are inescapable. We want to explore in debate concerned have prepared for the regime. today how the Government are working their way through the trade-offs, so that we can try to assess whether the I am the first to admit that the charge was not solution that the Government have hinted at, but have universally welcomed or accepted, especially by those not put before us, is fair, or whether its outcome is less who would have to pay it. Many self-interested and fair than the outcome of the system that we decided on. somewhat bloodcurdling arguments were advanced about how trying to distribute the relief more fairly would destroy all pension provision in the UK because it was The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine suggested that those who previously received a completely Greening): I can see that the hon. Lady and other disproportionate amount of relief would close their Opposition Members are following a particular train of employee pension provision out of spite if some of that inquiry, and that is perfectly right—it is the purpose of relief was taken away. It was not surprising that there this debate. I just draw her attention to the fact that the were howls of outrage from certain quarters when the clause gives the Government the power to repeal the policy was announced, but it is impossible to justify a previous measures if we can find a better alternative. If system of tax relief that delivers a quarter of its £18.9 billion we cannot, I assure her that we will leave what is in to just the 300,000 richest people by income in the place. However, does she agree with the Institute for country. Fiscal Studies, which described the measures that the previous Government proposed as unfair? Unfortunately, it seems that that lobbying effort has paid off under a new Government. The throwaway comment in the Red Book that the policy would Ms Eagle: It is up to the entire electorate to decide what is fair or unfair. I have set out some of the reasons “damage UK business and competitiveness” why we approached what is a difficult problem in the is quite worrying because that is usually code for “would way that we did, but I certainly welcome the Minister’s hit the very well-off the most”. The Government have comment that if the Government cannot find a different obviously listened to those with well-oiled lobbying way of doing things, they will leave the current structure machines who, after all the years of largesse during in place. I was wondering about the reference in the which the vast majority of the pension tax relief came clause to December this year. I suspected that that to them, did not want the party to end. might be what we would call a backstop position. It is important that the hon. Lady has put her point on the Thomas Docherty: My hon. Friend is probably aware record. Taking what she says at face value, I assume that of many people’s anger at the size of the pension pots of the Government will do some work in the next period. I bankers such as Sir Fred Goodwin. Does she agree that do not know whether a measure will be in the Finance 1147 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1148

[Ms Angela Eagle] If the Government are serious about protecting the yield, there has to be a trade-off with fairness. The Bill, or how quickly that work will be done, but certainly Government have hinted at using the annual allowances there is not very much time for a completely new system as a way of raising that money, rather than our way, and to be brought in. if they introduce that change those on incomes of less than £130,000 will be dragged into the tax net. We Justine Greening rose— wished to avoid that with our solution, so, if the reduction in annual allowances that the Government are considering Ms Eagle: The hon. Lady may wish to deal with some turns out to be their final decision, in response to the of the points in her reply on the amendment, but I am debate will the hon. Lady tell us how many people it will more than happy to give way if she wants to intervene. affect? The Government have hinted that that is their preferred way, but our amendment would ensure a Justine Greening: The hon. Lady is very kind. Given distributional analysis of the measure’s effect. Given that she raises the issue, perhaps it would be helpful for that we legislated for a particular approach to raising the rest of the debate if I set matters out. On the that yield, and given that the Treasury did a great deal timelines, she is right; we clearly need to make progress of work on developing that system, it would be entirely quickly. The aim is to publish draft clauses in the appropriate for the Treasury to produce some comparisons autumn, and to legislate in the Finance Bill 2011. between that and the preferred approach at which the Ms Eagle: I certainly appreciate the information that hon. Lady and, certainly, the Red Book have hinted. the Minister has put before us, and it helps us to get on How great will the sudden tax liability be of people who with the debate. I suppose it means that she and her earned less than £130,000 a year and would not have officials will have time for at least a little bit of a holiday been affected had our approach to raising the yield this August. Under our plans, the yield begins to come gone ahead? How low down the income scale will the in during the next financial year. I was under the restrictions on tax relief go? impression that she would have had to ensure that she legislated for an entirely new system in the September Geraint Davies: For clarity, does my hon. Friend 2010 Finance Bill. She now tells us that potential measures agree that the Government’s proposal consists of a for an alternative system will be forced into next year’s multi-billion-pound giveaway for the richest 2% of people Finance Bill, which means that an extra £0.2 billion of in this country at a time when the rest of the country revenue that was scored for the next financial year will faces massive financial penalties due to the actions of have to be raised. I assume that she will take account of international bankers? Those very bankers will be given that. the extra bonus by this Government, and that is an absolute disgrace. Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): The new regime comes in in April 2011. If, as the Minister said, the Ms Eagle: Again, my hon. Friend makes an important Government will not bring legislation forward until point in his characteristically acerbic way. I was going April 2011, does it mean that we will use the system that to ask the Minister, in a slightly more polite way, how we introduced? That will be a second system. There is much of the income that the very richest would have the current system; the one that we introduced, which paid will now be paid, under the new plans, by those on will apply from April 2011; and a third one, which will lower incomes. I hope she can give us that figure. be introduced subsequent to the Government’s Bill. Or The key issue with annual investment allowances is will the Government abandon our system, and will that they drag people into paying the extra tax regardless there be a period of time in which we get less revenue as of income. For example, a modest earner might receive a result of the complex process that has just been a bequest from a deceased relative and make a big announced? payment into a pension, and under our system they would have been able to pay in up to £225,000 without Ms Eagle: There are issues of process on which I incurring tax. Alternatively, a modest earner might would appreciate the hon. Lady’s enlightenment in her receive a redundancy payment and wish to put it away, response to the debate. and we clearly want to encourage that if they do not There is also an issue about the backstop position. have a pension. If the hon. Lady’s system is to be of the The hon. Lady says that draft clauses might be brought sort hinted at in the Red Book, that person would be forward, and, although I am sorry to go on about much more affected, regardless of their ordinary income; process, it is important when it comes to tax changes. they would be deterred from putting anything other We gave ourselves close to two years to do all the work than the annual investment allowance into a pension to introduce the higher rate relief charge, because it was fund because of the nature of the tax. I hope she will at such a difficult and complex area. We wanted to ensure least admit that that is an implication. Has she any that those who were liable to pay had plenty of time to numbers that relate to this issue? plan, understand their liabilities—even if they did not like them, which they rarely do in my experience—and get to know the system, so that there was certainty 3.30 pm about it. It now seems clear that there is a degree of It is important that we should be able to compare the uncertainty, which those who would have been particularly two systems. That is why the amendment calls for a badly hit by the high charges, the very richest in our distributional analysis to be laid before the House before society, might welcome. However, we felt that they the paving legislation is repealed by order. It calls for should shoulder a fairer burden of the necessary fiscal the Government to give the House more than a few consolidation, because they had done so well during the vague hints about the shape of the new regime that they good times. are planning to introduce. 1149 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1150

Reading between the lines, it appears that the heard the accusation that the previous Labour Government Government have chosen to pay a price for increased did not have a deficit reduction strategy. Well, this simplicity. That price appears to be that to reduce the element was a key part of that—£3.6 billion of it. tax burden on the very richest, those on lower—but still I am quite sad that only one Government Back good—incomes will be hit. Once more, we see a Bencher is in the Chamber, and I notice that the Liberal Government choice that protects the very richest at the Democrats have not been here throughout this debate. expense of those who are not as well off. The Liberal During the election, we heard nothing about the VAT Democrat manifesto identified this regressive tax relief rises, but we also heard nothing about the fact that one and pledged to restrict it completely to the basic rate. of the things that the Government would do in their Somehow, through the mysterious and convenient process first Finance Bill would be to give a £3.6 billion tax involved in the so-called coalition agreement, that manifesto give-away to the richest 2% of pensioners. I am sure that pledge has been translated into saving the very richest— that would have gone down very badly with the electorate perhaps even bankers, as has been said—from large tax if the Government parties had been honest with us at burdens and paying for that by clobbering those below that time. During the past week, the Liberal Democrats them in the income distribution. That definition of and the Conservatives, in their great coalition together, “progressive” is even more peculiar than that applied to have been arguing that VAT is not regressive, although a the VAT rise. key exception is the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew Will the Minister deal with a couple of other questions? George), who has found this policy very difficult. However, There is only a short time before the new financial year. one cannot say that the measure we are debating is She has said that it is now anticipated that the measure progressive at all. will not be introduced until the Finance Act 2011. How will she protect the £3.6 billion yield, given that that will come in a year earlier? How will we avoid a situation in Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Does the hon. which the order has to be made before December this Gentleman accept that if the amendment, which would year? The new system will not be legislated for and require a distributional analysis of any changes, were might not even be designed. Surely there will be a space accepted, we would be in a position to make a judgment in which the £3.6 billion yield will be at risk, and there on whether a system that is complicated, as the shadow will be no approach to ensuring that we can maintain it. spokesman said, was at least being replaced with a system that was fair and did not, as the hon. Gentleman Will the Minister also assure the House that the new says, give a huge amount of money to the very richest regime will be put before us properly and in detail? Will people? there be consultations, especially with those lower down the income scale, who, it would appear, will now be affected by the changes? Will she also tell us what is Mr Jones: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. happening to the anti-forestalling legislation, which is There seems to have been confusion from the Minister not repealed by the clause? Will the new regime put the in the sense that she is saying, “Nudge nudge, wink burden of compliance on HMRC rather than on pension wink, say no more”—in other words, that the Government providers, which bore the brunt of the approach that we might not actually introduce this measure. If this change took on this issue? At a time when the Chancellor is is to be made, we need to know who it will affect lower boasting of very large cuts in departmental budgets, down the income chain. If the top 2% are not going to does the hon. Lady feel that HMRC can cope with the carry their share of the burden, people lower down the extra burdens that this very sudden, very late, policy tax scale will be affected, such as pensioners, who are change will impose on it? already being hit by VAT and other implications of this Finally, what will happen if it all goes wrong? The Budget. Minister has hinted that if the Government feel that This proposal affects 300,000 people—2% of pension they cannot intellectually work something out between savers and 1% of working age taxpayers. We are being now and December this year to replace the yield, they told that it is fair, just and progressive to abolish what will maintain the current system. My experience is that was put forward by the previous Labour Government, one can have an intellectually coherent approach to a which would have raised £3.6 billion to help to reduce tax change that looks fantastic on paper until one tries the deficit that was created because of the lending we to turn it into actual approaches. That stage might well had to provide following the economic crisis. I am sorry, come after the stage that her new policy is able to reach but I do not accept that that is fair, and I think that if by December this year. this were explained to most members of the public, they What is the plan B if it all goes wrong? We spent would agree. Currently, no one who earned under £130,000 nearly two years ensuring that we could turn our approach a year would be affected by this measure. If someone is into a reality that worked, even though it was not in a Cabinet packed full of millionaires, that perhaps popular among those who were going to have to pay it. skews their perspective on what poverty is and what The hon. Lady does not have that amount of time. Will income buys. However, the average member of the she reassure us that the whole thing will not collapse in public, certainly in North Durham, would be appalled a heap? I look forward to her response on that point. by the fact that we are going to let off people who are earning what is not just a good wage but, for most of my constituents, a fantastic, unimaginable wage. Mr Kevan Jones: Over the past few weeks since the coalition came into being and the announcement of the Budget, the rhetoric that we have heard has been all Thomas Docherty: My hon. Friend is obviously very about fairness. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor much in touch with the north-east of England. Would have said on many occasions, “We’re all in this together.” he care to speculate as to whether, among the 2% of the The other phrase is, “There’s no alternative.” We have population who will benefit, there will be an equitable 1151 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1152

[Thomas Docherty] Budget is not about deficit reduction. It is about an ideological approach to where the burden of taxation distribution across the UK, or whether the vast majority should fall and to the size of the state, and it will not who will benefit will be located in certain parts of the help many of my constituents in North Durham. country not too near his constituency or mine? 3.45 pm Mr Jones: My hon. Friend raises a good point. Clearly the net beneficiaries will not be in the north-east of Geraint Davies: It is a great pleasure to follow my England, Northern Ireland or Scotland. They will be hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), those in the south-east of England. The disposable who puts his finger on one of the key points. Obviously, income of those individuals will be a lot greater than the previous Government were attempting to raise that of a lot of our constituents, who will be hit by the £3.6 billion to tackle the budget deficit. They targeted VAT increase. the top 2% of people—those earning more than £150,000, We have seen that give-away, but there is something including employer contributions. Those people anticipated else in the Budget that I find absolutely amazing. We that increase and budgeted for it and now, in the ashes heard the other night that under the corporation tax of the economic downturn imported from the United proposals, the banks will be given a cash-back of States, the impact of raising the £3.6 billion is being £400 million. The same individuals will no doubt benefit spread across a much wider pool—10% of the people. from the proposals that we are currently discussing. We As has already been said, the suggestion that we are have been hearing the mantras in the past few weeks all in it together rings hollow. Public sector workers are that there is no alternative and that Labour left the on pay freezes and the incomes from their pensions, like economy in the mess. those from private sector pensions, will be reduced by 16% over 20 years through the other change that has Chris Leslie: We’re all in it together. been mentioned—the link to the consumer prices index. On top of all that, the tide of the £3.6 billion will break Mr Jones: Let us not forget that one. However, the over them. The impact will be great, and I very much proposal in clause 5 will leave a big black hole in the regret it. deficit reduction strategy. The Economic Secretary hinted, “Well, we might not do it, or we might do something Mr Kevan Jones: Does my hon. Friend also agree that different.” I am sorry, but if we are to have a thought-out the 2% of taxpayers who will get the £3.6 billion cash plan to reduce the deficit, that is not the way to approach give-away are also in a position to take tax and accountancy the matter. What we need is firm figures that do not advice, which could reduce their tax liabilities? That will make the poorest in society pay, which the proposal not be open to pensioners who are paying the VAT clearly will. She needs to explain to the House why increases or the public sector workers to whom he neither she nor the Liberal Democrats went into the referred. election saying that they would make this change. A lot of pensioners will find it very difficult to stomach. Geraint Davies: My hon. Friend is right. The status quo proposal of getting the £3.6 billion from the top Ms Angela Eagle: Does my hon. Friend agree that 2% was based on standing back and considering whether neither partner in the coalition Government went into there should be greater tax relief for those who are the general election telling pensioners that they would already the richest. The answer was no. At difficult change the definition of indexation from the retail times, those with the broadest shoulders should bear prices index to the consumer prices index, either? the greatest burden, but now, the burden is being taken from them and placed on much weaker consumers. That will undermine the attractiveness of pension schemes The Temporary Chair (Mr David Amess): Order. I among larger numbers in middle income groups. hope that before the hon. Gentleman responds, he will reflect on the fact that the point that has just been made In essence, the proposal is to reduce the tax allowance is not really relevant to the matter being discussed. from £255,000 a year to some £30,000 to £45,000. That creates an enormous difference in how many and which Mr Jones: I would not want to go against your people are captured, and generates great anxiety in the judgment, Mr Amess, but may I say that my hon. industry—the providers that it represents and consumers Friend’s point is another example of how hard-working whom it serves. pensioners in my constituency will be affected by the Budget? However, I defer to your wise counsel and Justine Greening: May I confirm that I have understood would not want to get on the wrong side of you. what the hon. Gentleman prefers? Would he rather have tax relief at 20% for people who can afford to pay up to Distributional analysis is needed before anything is £250,000 into a pension fund in one year? done. We also need to know, if the relief charge is not going to go ahead, where the money is going to come Geraint Davies: The Economy Secretary knows that from. It will affect pensioners lower down the income the distributional impact of the proposals is, as I have scale. Many on quite small incomes, who have saved all said, to spread the £3.6 billion burden from the top their lives for their pensions, will basically be paying for 2% to 10%. It is as simple as that. She knows that that is a give-away to the richest 2% in the country. the case, and there is no way that she can wriggle out of I hope that we can get the message out loud and clear that political and economic fact. Before the election, from today’s debate that we have a Government who are there was a promise that million pound estates would clearly taking care of their friends, the top 2%. They avoid inheritance tax—the top 5,000 households. At the have to start being honest with the British people—this last moment, the Chancellor stepped back and said, 1153 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1154

“Oh no, at such difficult times, we won’t give billions of Geraint Davies: I certainly do not think that the pounds to the top few thousand households. Don’t Government can be trusted but, more importantly, do worry. Vote Tory.” However, their secret plan was to the industry, consumers and the wider financial community have a word behind the scenes with their rich mates, trust them to get their ducks in a row and recover the telling them, “Don’t worry, we’ll reverse the Labour £3.6 billion? Much was made of the Chancellor saying, party’s old plan to make sure that the top 2% pay “We’ve got to get all this money and get the deficit most.” down, otherwise we might be re-rated,” but suddenly we do not know where a key component of that— Chris Leslie: My hon. Friend is making several important £3.6 billion—is coming from. points. The clause appears to reinstate an enormous tax I mentioned that there will be a discussion group of relief capability for the wealthiest, yet the Economic stakeholders in the summer. The previous Labour Secretary guffaws at questions from Labour Members Government considered reducing the annual allowance about taking it away. Surely the Treasury should clarify and all the other options. It is on the record in Hansard the position. that the annual allowance proposal was rejected partly because it was less well targeted—as has been said, we Geraint Davies: My hon. Friend is right. Only yesterday, wanted to focus on those who are able to pay most he lucidly pointed out that, when we went into the easily and without great pain rather than make the election campaign, the Conservatives were saying, “We weakest pay more—and partly because of its complexity. won’t help the rich with inheritance tax, and we’ll get those bankers with the bankers levy”, but that the levy Another key point I wanted to make—I do not think of £400 million will be nullified by the corporation tax it has been made clearly enough—is that primary legislation give-away to the bankers. On top of that, we hear not is necessary to reduce the annual allowance. The proposal only that the bankers will not pay a levy because they in the Bill is half-baked. It gets rid of a system of get corporation tax back, but because of this proposal gathering £3.6 billion and the Government are incapable they will have the £3.6 billion in pension contributions. of replacing it with an alternative. I object to the clause That is an absolute disgrace. not just because of the discussion with stakeholders and the uncertainty, but specifically because section 282(2) The Government argue that the measure is both fair of the Finance Act 2004 states that the annual allowance and effective. I have already argued that it is clearly not set by Treasury order must not be less than the preceding fair and will not labour the point any longer, but is it year. Given that the allowance is £255,000, it cannot effective? That the previous scheme was complex has suddenly become £30,000 to £45,000 without changing been acknowledged, but the new system is also complex. that legislation. Such a measure is not included in the There is enormous uncertainty within the industry, Bill, which is another indication of how half-cocked the which is asking how pensions can be accrued in defined proposals are. We are discussing a Finance Bill now, but benefit schemes, how they will be valued under the we would need another one before April 2011 to change proposals, and what will be the impact of the proposal that allowance. The proposal is incomplete and will on the provision of such schemes and what will be the mean uncertainty; it demonstrates ineptitude and impact on basic rate taxpayers. There are also incompetence; and it undermines confidence among compliance and delivery questions, and all sorts of industry providers and consumers. After all, we want other questions, and the measure must be delivered more people to save with certainty, so that they have within a very tight time frame. We are therefore playing comfort rather than hardship in what we hope will be fast and loose with our economy and public finances, their long and happy retirements. This will undermine and with the confidence of the international community, those prospects. People will be less likely to subscribe to in order that the Tories can bail out their rich friends. sensible, robust pension schemes for the future. That is quite outrageous. The Government say that the matter will not be done The Government are giving themselves the power to and dusted immediately, but that the measures give repeal primary legislation by order without knowing them various regulatory powers to withdraw Labour’s exactly what will be put in its place. That is a half-baked well thought out proposals and to leave a void. Specifically, approach. Amendment No. 60 calls for an analysis of it is said that there will be a discussion document in the “the likely impact”. I tabled an amendment that was summer of 2010, meaning that there will be a big not selected, but it simply suggested that this clause discussion among the stakeholders on how the Government should be scrapped. We have looked at the issue, and we are going to recover the £3.6 billion that they would know what the distributional impact will be, albeit not have made from the top 2%. The Government say, in detail. We know that the rich will be let off the hook, “We’d better not take that £3.6 billion because we’d be and more widely it will cause massive uncertainty about taking it from our friends, but we don’t know how we’re the future. There may also be a question mark over going to recover it, so we’ll have a stakeholder discussion whether we can fulfil our financial obligations as set out in the summer,” which will presumably take place in the in the Budget. Maldives or somewhere similar. Towers Watson, which is a leading consultant on pensions, says that lowering the annual allowance to Chris Leslie: Again, the Labour party was trying to £30,000 would lead to tax charges for long-serving final close the loopholes for the very richest and to reduce salary scheme members. That means that employers some of the tax give-away for the millionaires. The would pull the plug on such schemes. That is not my Minister is asking the House to trust her while claim, but that of industry experts. We have already she shuffles the rules—that is what clause 5 effectively seen across British industry the loss of reliable and means—but does my hon. Friend think that the robust final salary schemes. Towers Watson says that Government, given their track record, can be trusted on the changes will undermine final salary schemes because this matter? they will not be as useful in retaining staff if they have a 1155 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1156

[Geraint Davies] well be that something that previously escaped the people who designed the pension tax relief has suddenly tax bill attached. The Minister has not thought this appeared to them. If so, perhaps a way can be found to through. If big employers have these final salary schemes, keep the same distribution but collect it differently. their staff stay with the company because they know Were that the case, however, I suspect that it would have that each year they gain a little more benefit, instead of been found already. going to a predatory competitor company. A second issue, on which the amendment is quite Towers Watson argues that the Government can either clear, needs to be addressed. The Minister indicated in introduce a simple system or a fair system, but not an intervention that the power being asked for might both. A rough and ready approach was fine when a few never be exercised, but I suspect that it is being requested were worried about the annual allowance, but the because it will be exercised at some stage. If that is the Government’s proposals would have an impact on hundreds case, and if the Government have nothing to fear from of thousands of people. All the stakeholders will be the amendment, in the interest of ensuring a collective running around wondering what the changes will mean and positive response to the Budget, and so that it can for them and providers will wonder whether they should be seen to be fair, a clear distributional analysis, which provide a different scheme. I mentioned KPMG before, the amendment asks for, should not be something that and I will not go through all the consultants in terms of the Government walk away from—the amendment should their support for my position, but KPMG says that the be easily accepted. I would be interested to hear from number of pension savers affected has widened from the Minister whether that part of the amendment will 2% to 10%. PricewaterhouseCoopers says that the level be accepted, or whether there is some fear about the will need to be £30,000—as opposed to £30,000 to Government’s doing so. In our earlier debate about £45,000—to raise the £3.6 billion needed. The movement insurance, the Exchequer Secretary said that the amounts from £255,000 to £30,000 is a radical change and we are are so minimal that we do not need a full impact still consulting on it. assessment, but the amount here is not minimal—it is PricewaterhouseCoopers says: £3.6 billion—so a distributional analysis should be called for. “Employers need certainty over the regulatory framework for The third comment I wish to make has already been pensions if they are to be remotivated to provide quality workplace made by other Members. We are going to have the pensions.” current arrangements until the end of the year, then we The Government’s proposals are unfair, unclear, half-baked, will have the previous Government’s amendments for fast and loose and a massive new multi-million pound the next year, and then we will have new arrangements bankers’ bonus to pay back many of the people who put for the following year. In this industry, people, including us in this mess in the first place. They are disgraceful all of us as pension contributors, want some certainty and should be withdrawn. about where our pensions are going, what kind of contributions we will have to make and so on. It therefore Sammy Wilson: I have only a few points to make. The strikes me as odd that a Government who say they want Conservative party’s fortunes or misfortunes do not to make the running of the economy more simple—by really affect us in Northern Ireland so I am not seeking reducing red tape and bureaucracy for industry—should to score political points or to say that the Tories are bad be having three systems in three different years. That people, even though they may be considered to be so by seems to go against the arguments that the Government many people. However, the basic issue that hits everyone have put forward about how they wish to deal with in the face in considering this measure is how it sits with industry and the economy generally. the claim by the Government that the Budget is fair. For all those reasons, Opposition Members have legitimate grounds for wanting to raise their genuine concerns about the clause and move amendments to it, 4pm and are not doing so just as an exercise in political point The core of my argument is this: is this a fair way of scoring. I would prefer the clause simply to be removed, dealing with this particular issue? Perhaps the Minister rather than the amendment be accepted, but I shall be can confirm whether the Government have decided that interested to hear the Minister’s response to the points the current system is so complicated that it needs changing that have been made. to such a degree that the £3.6 billion will be unrealisable. If simplicity will result in less money, we are obliged to Thomas Docherty: I shall be relatively brief. It is know where that money will come from. On the other perhaps worth noting that since my hon. Friend the hand, if the change is intended to raise the £3.6 billion—but Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) first commented not in the way that it is currently raised—logic dictates on the lack of interest from those on the Government that it can be raised only by distributing its collection Benches, there has been a flurry of—I suspect—BlackBerry among people who are not currently paying towards it, messages going out, so that we are now being treated to which means going down the income scale. That is no fewer than five Conservative Back Benchers. They where the issue of fairness comes in. have joined us for the afternoon, yet not a single Liberal The first question I want answered, therefore, is whether Democrat has arrived in the Chamber. it is the intention to raise that £3.6 billion. If so, how It would be wrong of me to suggest that the Liberal will it be distributed? The shadow Minister admitted Democrats are simply uninterested in the Budget, so that the system put in place by the previous Government could it be that the Chancellor, having been thwarted in was complicated—that is probably one of the things his plans for a millionaire’s inheritance tax break, came exercising Treasury Ministers at present—but if there up with a new wheeze after the coalition deal? How were a simpler method, I assume that it would have could he help his friends in the City? Unsurprisingly, been tried already, because nobody wants to put in the Chancellor’s new wheeze is to reverse the previous place an unnecessarily complicated system. It might Government’s policy of trying to find a more equitable 1157 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1158 approach to pensions. That, I suggest, is the reason why Returning to clause 5, the Government have considered our Liberal Democrat colleagues have not been advised pension tax relief issues and believe that reform is a of the importance of this debate. For if they saw the necessary part of their commitment to tackling the skilful manoeuvre that the Economic Secretary is trying fiscal deficit. It is worth citing the views of Robert to perform on the Committee today, they would surely Chote, who heads up the Institute for Fiscal Studies, rush to the Chamber to show their outrage at this following the Budget. He spoke about this measure on terrible scheme. 23 June: It is a slightly unusual situation when a Minister as “Perhaps the most welcome change was the decision to rethink artful and articulate as the Economic Secretary tells us the last Government’s complex, unfair and inefficient plans to this afternoon that the current system is terrible—that it limit pension contributions relief for high earners.” does not work; that it is unfair and unclear—yet has not That was what he thought about it. been able to articulate what would replace it. It strikes Ms Eagle: On that point, does the Minister also agree me, as a perhaps naive and innocent new Member, that with the IFS analysis of the Budget, which pointed out the starting point for any Government—particularly a that it was not progressive, but regressive, and that the Government who are so terribly keen to reduce regulation most progressive elements of it were those that she and bureaucracy—should be as follows: rather than inherited from the previous Government’s Budget? introducing legislation that has no purpose except to give them some wriggle room, the Government would Justine Greening: Many people on the minimum wage have been better off spending their time coming up with will not view it as progressive for someone who can an alternative proposal for the Committee to examine, afford to pay upwards of £100,000 a year into a pension instead of giving the Minister the opportunity to spend fund to be given a 20% marginal rate tax break. In fact, her summer and that of her civil servants coming up that was not the only problem. Having listened to the with a new scheme. concerns of the pensions industry and employers, this To conclude, although I look forward to the Minister’s Government have real reservations about the approach reply, I suspect that we will hear no detail whatever towards pensions tax relief that was adopted in the about what the Government plan to replace the current Finance Act 2010. We believe it could have unwelcome system with, and that in six months’ time she will not consequences for pension saving, bring significant have been able to find a suitable replacement. complexity into the tax system and damage UK business and competitiveness. The director general of the CBI Justine Greening: May I start by saying what a pleasure said of the previous Government’s measure, brought it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess? forward in the Finance Act 2010: We have had a wide-ranging debate today and I will “This will have serious consequences—it will make it much do my best to answer a number of the issues that harder for UK business to attract and retain global talent… In Opposition Members have raised. However, it would every way, it’s a bad move.” perhaps be best for me first to set out the background to In addition, a number of features of the approach this debate, as the shadow Minister did. This issue was adopted in the Finance Act 2010 were unfair. For first looked at by the previous Government, and we example, it included a very complicated income test, have returned to it as a new Government. The coalition which made it difficult for individuals and advisers to Government inherited from their predecessor the largest understand. It also made it difficult for individuals to budget deficit of any economy in Europe, with the plan, as they would not know their final income until single exception of Ireland. One pound in every four the end of the tax year so they would not know until that we spend is borrowed. The gap stands at £149 billion then whether or by how much they would be affected. for this financial year alone. The income test also created many perverse incentives, The previous Government had planned to raise extra avoidance opportunities and anomalies. For example, revenue through the restriction of pensions relief for different charges could arise, depending on whether an higher-rate earners. As we have heard, that approach individual or their employer made the pension contributions. was due to raise £4 billion to £5 billion a year by Under the approach in the Finance Act 2010, individuals 2014-15. Given the appalling state of the public finances on the highest incomes, who are able to put in very large that we have been left as a new Government, it is pension contributions—upwards of £100,000 to £200,000 something that we cannot ignore. in one year—would have continued to get pensions tax On Second Reading, my right hon. Friend the Chief relief, as they would still have been able to get relief at Secretary set out our commitment to fairness. This is a the basic rate rather than the higher rate. That is worth progressive Budget that ensures that every part of society up to £51,000 a year. Given our concern for fairness, we makes a contribution to deficit reduction, while protecting believe— the most vulnerable, especially children in poverty and pensioners. The Budget has a number of measures to Mr Kevan Jones: Are you going to stop it? support pensioners, not least the triple lock guaranteeing Justine Greening: We are proposing a different approach, an annual increase in the state pension in line with which would address that very measure. The decision earnings, prices or a 2.5% increase, whichever is the for the hon. Gentleman to take tonight is on whether higher. people who are able to pay £100,000 to £200,000 a year Ms Angela Eagle: Will the hon. Lady give way? into their pension fund should be able to get tax relief at the basic rate. That is the question for him to answer. Justine Greening: Let me make some progress. That will benefit 11 million pensioners across the Ms Angela Eagle: There are hints in the Red Book country. Through clause 6, which we will debate next, about the annual allowance taking the strain, so will the the Budget will enable individuals to make more flexible Minister tell us whether that is the only approach that is use of their pension savings. going to be looked at, or is she considering a range of 1159 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1160

[Ms Angela Eagle] some sympathy with the thrust of the amendment, but it will ultimately be unnecessary, because there will different approaches? She is comparing a system that clearly be a chance for people to look over the draft was legislated for and consulted on with a replacement legislation, and we will not repeal the high income about which the House has no real information. As I excess relief charge until details of the alternative regime say, there is a hint in the Red Book, but nothing else. have been finalised and set out in public. Will she help us focus the comparison by doing us the courtesy of telling us what her Government are going to Ms Angela Eagle: I thank the Minister for giving way develop as an alternative? on this important point. Will she undertake to provide a distributional analysis so that we can compare directly 4.15 pm the effects of the system that she wants to repeal, with the system that the Government finally settle on if she Justine Greening: I was just about to come to that. can find an alternative? That is the essence of the One thing that we know right now about the existing amendment, so her answer to this question is quite plans is that if they came in from April 2011, they important. would curtail, but still give, basic rate tax relief to people who can afford to pay hundreds of thousands of Justine Greening: A whole range of analyses and pounds into a pension every year. Our alternative approach impact statements will come out with the legislation. I looks principally at significantly reducing the annual suspect that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Chelsea allowance to curtail that effect. We think that the annual and Fulham (Greg Hands) behind me is saying, any tax relief available will potentially be restricted to less work that is done would give an answer that Opposition than half that available under the previous Government’s Members would not like, because it would show that we plan, significantly curtailing the ability of the super-rich are no longer going to give basic rate tax relief to people to benefit from pensions tax relief. That alternative who can afford to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds approach is supported by the pensions industry, including into a pension pot every year. the National Association of Pension Funds, as well as employers and their representatives, including the CBI. Let me address some of the issues that have been The Government are keen to continue to engage with raised. I have set out the time frame within which we the pensions industry, employers and other interested want to progress towards a better alternative to the parties to specify the level of the annual allowance, and current system. We all agree that, for pensions tax relief other relevant design features. to remain affordable, we have to limit high levels of tax-privileged pensions saving, but we think that there Let me leave no uncertainty about our fiscal objectives. is a better way of doing it than the one set out by the The Government are clear that a reduced annual allowance previous Government. We believe it is important to approach would have to raise no less revenue than the reduce the annual allowance to prevent people from existing plans to restrict pensions tax relief in order to saving £255,000 a year tax free. enable us to meet our commitment to deficit reduction. That is why we are not repealing the existing regime at The hon. Member for Wallasey mentioned instances this point, while we are finding a better way of achieving of people suddenly being able to pay a large amount our objectives. into a pension fund on a one-off basis. She was right to raise that matter, and we shall be looking at options for The hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) asked for protecting basic rate taxpayers and supporting any hard more detail. Our provisional analysis suggests that the cases caused by such one-off spikes in pension accruals. appropriate level for the annual allowance could be in She also asked about the lifetime allowance being changed. the region of £30,000 to £45,000 in order to deliver the We have not ruled that out, but it is obviously a key necessary yield to the Treasury. However, the level required mechanism that sits alongside the annual allowance. We would be influenced by a number of policy design shall therefore have to look at it in the context of where features in the revised regime. Once those have been we end up going with the annual allowance limit. I decided, we can repeal the measures in the previous should say that all this is subject to being able to work Government’s Finance Act 2010. Clause 5 therefore with key stakeholders to get something that we believe gives the Treasury a power to make an order repealing we can rely on. That is why the provisions will give us section 23 and schedule 2 in that Act. the power to repeal that measure, if we can find a better Those measures, which are known as the high income way. excess relief charge, restrict pensions tax relief to the I particularly want to respond to the argument from basic rate for high-income individuals, with effect from Labour Members that our proposals would somehow 6 April 2011. Let us be clear, however, that they still give give a tax break to the most well-off people in the basic rate tax relief to high-income individuals. The country. Let us have a look at some of the figures Government want to consult on a new approach. We involved. Of course, the minute I say that, I lose the want to discuss how best to design an alternative approach relevant bit of paper. Ah, here it is. Under the terms of to make sure that it can operate fairly and effectively. the Finance Act 2010, someone who is contributing The power to repeal is time-limited, because we recognise £283,000 to their pension fund on an annual basis the need to resolve the design of the restriction of would have had a tax charge, net of pension relief, of pensions tax relief as quickly as possible. We have £85,000. Someone making the same contribution to already begun discussions with groups, which will continue their pension pot under a potential annual allowance through the summer. level of £35,000 would have a tax charge, net of relief, of Amendment 60 proposes that we should publish a £124,000. The reason for that is that they would get report outlining the new arrangements and details of 20% tax relief on the income that they would otherwise the yield implications and distributional impacts. I have have paid a much higher rate of tax on. That is why they 1161 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1162 would pay just under £40,000 a year more under our and a pragmatic way to address the industry’s concerns. proposed scheme than they would have done under the The industry faced a £1 billion bill for implementing previous Government’s arrangements. excessively complicated and unfair tax changes on pensions I wonder whether those Labour MPs who are so tax relief. We hope that we can reach a conclusion with concerned about the impact of tax policy on the better-off the industry and all stakeholders, but the key issue is to people in this country will go through the Lobby today address the fiscal deficit, so any solution will have to and vote for a measure that means that people who can bring in no less money than the mechanism intended by afford to pay £283,000 a year into their pension pot will the previous Government. pay £40,000 less tax than they would previously have done. I do not know what Labour Members think Ms Angela Eagle: We have had a long discussion, so I “good” looks like in relation to taxing better-off people, will be brief. I appreciate the information, such as it but I guess I will find out when we have a Division on was, that the Minister was able to put before us about this amendment shortly. the shape of the alternative scheme. It is a bit like shadow boxing when one tries to compare a scheme Chris Leslie: The hon. Lady is talking to us as though that has already been legislated for with one that has we were schoolchildren, but she will not publish her been only hinted at in the Red Book. That has been the proposals. Will she now agree to place in the Library a problem with this debate. copy of the table that she has in front of her straight I was candid about the issues and trade-offs that we away, or this evening, so that we can all share in this had to go through to come up with the structure for secret plan? which we legislated in the Finance Act 2010. I hope that the Minister and her colleagues will be as candid as they Justine Greening: I would have thought that the hon. try to develop this other method. She said that she was Gentleman was so intelligent that he could do the sympathetic, but she is still resisting the amendment to maths himself. The calculation is pretty straightforward. put a report before the House that will contain distributional It is a bit like doing a tax calculation where someone analyses and much more information about this alternative has an allowance and then a rate, and they apply it to system. That is a great pity. We shall divide the Committee the excess of the allowance that they are paying in extra. on that amendment as the Minister has not given us an undertaking to provide that information. I also want a Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): Does my separate vote on clause 5. hon. Friend remember a distributional table ever being placed in a Budget under the Labour Government? Question put, That the amendment be made. The Committee divided: Ayes 196, Noes 310. Justine Greening: I have no recollection of that, but I Division No. 26] [4.28 pm will not take up more of the time of the Committee. The last figures that I set out probably spoke louder— AYES Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Darling, rh Mr Alistair Chris Leslie: On a point of order, Mr Amess. Is it in Alexander, Heidi David, Mr Wayne order for the Minister to withhold information to which Ali, Rushanara Davidson, Mr Ian she has clearly referred in the debate from the rest of the Anderson, Mr David Davies, Geraint Members engaging in the discussion? Bailey, Mr Adrian De Piero, Gloria Bain, Mr William Denham, rh Mr John The Temporary Chair: That was not a point of order. Banks, Gordon Dobbin, Jim Barron, rh Mr Kevin Dobson, rh Frank Justine Greening: It seems that I’m damned if I give Beckett, rh Margaret Docherty, Thomas information and damned if I don’t. I was asked to Begg, Miss Anne Donohoe, Mr Brian H. provide some facts, and I made sure that I gave some Benn, rh Hilary Doran, Mr Frank facts and figures. Now that I have provided some to the Blenkinsop, Tom Dowd, Jim Committee, apparently that is a bad thing to do too. I Blomfield, Paul Doyle, Gemma think the problem is that the figures I have just provided Blunkett, rh Mr David Dromey, Jack are not ones that Opposition Members want to confront. Brennan, Kevin Dugher, Michael They are about to go through the Lobby and vote on Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Eagle, Ms Angela people who can afford to put a couple of hundred Bryant, Chris Eagle, Maria thousand pounds into their pension pot paying more Buck, Ms Karen Edwards, Jonathan tax net of pension relief than less. Burden, Richard Efford, Clive Byrne, rh Mr Liam Elliott, Julie Thomas Docherty: I am grateful to the Minister for Campbell, Mr Alan Ellman, Mrs Louise helping us to understand how much the Chancellor can Campbell, Mr Ronnie Engel, Natascha Caton, Martin Esterson, Bill afford to put into his pension fund. How can we confront Chapman, Mrs Jenny Evans, Chris figures that we do not get to see? Clark, Katy Farrelly, Paul Coaker, Vernon Field, rh Mr Frank Justine Greening: I was asked for some figures and Coffey, Ann Fitzpatrick, Jim what the impact would be on the very richest. We can Corbyn, Jeremy Flello, Robert probably find in Hansard tomorrow that I have just Crausby, Mr David Flint, rh Caroline provided the Committee with that information. That is Creasy, Stella Flynn, Paul probably the way in which debates are meant to work. Cruddas, Jon Fovargue, Yvonne Ministers have questions put to them and if they can Cunningham, Alex Francis, Dr Hywel answer them in some detail, they do. That is what I have Cunningham, Tony Gapes, Mike done. I have set out in some detail why we are pursuing Curran, Margaret Gardiner, Barry the clause. I hope that everyone realises that it is sensible Danczuk, Simon Gilmore, Sheila 1163 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1164

Glass, Pat Morris, Grahame Bacon, Mr Richard Ellis, Michael Glindon, Mrs Mary M. Bagshawe, Ms Louise Ellison, Jane Godsiff, Mr Roger Mudie, Mr George Baker, Steve Ellwood, Mr Tobias Goggins, rh Paul Munn, Meg Baldry, Tony Eustice, George Goodman, Helen Murphy, rh Mr Jim Baldwin, Harriett Evans, Graham Greatrex, Tom Murphy, rh Paul Barclay, Stephen Evans, Jonathan Green, Kate Murray, Ian Barker, Gregory Evennett, Mr David Greenwood, Lilian Nandy, Lisa Baron, Mr John Fabricant, Michael Griffith, Nia Nash, Pamela Barwell, Gavin Fallon, Michael Hain, rh Mr Peter O’Donnell, Fiona Bebb, Guto Farron, Tim Hanson, rh Mr David Onwurah, Chi Bellingham, Mr Henry Featherstone, Lynne Havard, Mr Dai Osborne, Sandra Benyon, Richard Field, Mr Mark Healey, rh John Pearce, Teresa Beresford, Sir Paul Foster, Mr Don Hepburn, Mr Stephen Phillipson, Bridget Berry, Jake Fox,rhDrLiam Heyes, David Pound, Stephen Bingham, Andrew Francois, rh Mr Mark Hillier, Meg Qureshi, Yasmin Binley, Mr Brian Freer, Mike Hilling, Julie Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Birtwistle, Gordon Fullbrook, Lorraine Hodge, rh Margaret Reynolds, Emma Blackman, Bob Fuller, Richard Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reynolds, Jonathan Blackwood, Nicola Garnier, Mr Edward Hoey, Kate Robertson, Angus Boles, Nick Garnier, Mark Hopkins, Kelvin Robertson, John Bone, Mr Peter Gauke, Mr David Hosie, Stewart Rotheram, Steve Bottomley, Peter George, Andrew Howarth, rh Mr George Roy, Mr Frank Bradley, Karen Gibb, Mr Nick Hunt, Tristram Roy, Lindsay Brady, Mr Graham Gilbert, Stephen Irranca-Davies, Huw Ruddock, rh Joan Brake, Tom Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Jackson, Glenda Sarwar, Anas Bray, Angie Glen, John James, Mrs Siân C. Seabeck, Alison Brazier, Mr Julian Goldsmith, Zac Jamieson, Cathy Sharma, Mr Virendra Bridgen, Andrew Gove, rh Michael Johnson, Diana R. Sheridan, Jim Brine, Mr Steve Graham, Richard Jones, Helen Shuker, Gavin Browne, Mr Jeremy Grant, Mrs Helen Jones, Mr Kevan Singh, Mr Marsha Bruce, Fiona Gray, Mr James Jones, Susan Elan Skinner, Mr Dennis Bruce, rh Malcolm Grayling, rh Chris Joyce, Eric Smith, rh Mr Andrew Buckland, Mr Robert Green, Damian Keen, Alan Smith, Nick Burley, Mr Aidan Greening, Justine Kendall, Liz Smith, Owen Burns, Conor Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Khan, rh Sadiq Soulsby, Sir Peter Burns, Mr Simon Griffiths, Andrew Lammy, rh Mr David Straw, rh Mr Jack Burrowes, Mr David Gummer, Ben Lavery, Ian Stringer, Graham Burstow, Mr Paul Gyimah, Mr Sam Lazarowicz, Mark Stuart, Ms Gisela Burt, Alistair Halfon, Robert Leslie, Chris Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Burt, Lorely Hames, Duncan Lloyd, Tony Thomas, Mr Gareth Byles, Dan Hammond, Stephen Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Thornberry, Emily Cairns, Alun Hancock, Matthew Love, Mr Andrew Timms, rh Stephen Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hands, Greg Lucas, Caroline Trickett, Jon Carmichael, Mr Alistair Harper, Mr Mark Lucas, Ian Turner, Karl Carmichael, Neil Harrington, Richard MacNeil, Mr Angus Twigg, Stephen Carswell, Mr Douglas Harris, Rebecca Brendan Umunna, Mr Chuka Cash, Mr William Hart, Simon Mactaggart, Fiona Vaz, Valerie Chishti, Rehman Harvey, Nick Mahmood, Shabana Walley, Joan Chope, Mr Christopher Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mann, John Watts, Mr Dave Clappison, Mr James Hayes, Mr John Marsden, Mr Gordon Weir, Mr Mike Clark, rh Greg Heald, Mr Oliver McCann, Mr Michael Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heath, Mr David McCarthy, Kerry Whitehead, Dr Alan Collins, Damian Heaton-Harris, Chris McClymont, Gregg Wicks, rh Malcolm Colvile, Oliver Hemming, John McDonagh, Siobhain Williamson, Chris Cox, Mr Geoffrey Henderson, Gordon McDonnell, John Wilson, Phil Crockart, Mike Hendry, Charles McFadden, rh Mr Pat Wilson, Sammy Crouch, Tracey Herbert, rh Nick McGovern, Alison Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Davey, Mr Edward Hinds, Damian McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Wood, Mike Davies, David T. C. Hoban, Mr Mark Hollingbery, George McKechin, Ann Woodcock, John (Monmouth) McKinnell, Catherine Hollobone, Mr Philip Woolas, Mr Phil Davies, Glyn Mearns, Ian Holloway, Mr Adam Wright, David Davies, Philip Michael, rh Alun Davis, rh Mr David Hopkins, Kris Miliband, rh Edward Tellers for the Ayes: de Bois, Nick Horwood, Martin Morden, Jessica Mary Creagh and Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Howarth, Mr Gerald Morrice, Graeme Lyn Brown Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Howell, John Doyle-Price, Jackie Hughes, Simon NOES Drax, Richard Huhne, rh Chris Adams, Nigel Alexander, rh Danny Duddridge, James Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Duncan Smith, rh Mr Huppert, Dr Julian Afriyie, Adam Andrew, Stuart Iain Hurd, Mr Nick Aldous, Peter Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Dunne, Mr Philip Jackson, Mr Stewart 1165 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1166

James, Margot Paice, Mr James Wharton, James Wilson, Mr Rob Javid, Sajid Parish, Neil Wheeler, Heather Wollaston, Dr Sarah Jenkin, Mr Bernard Patel, Priti White, Chris Wright, Jeremy Johnson, Gareth Penrose, John Whittaker, Craig Wright, Simon Johnson, Joseph Percy, Andrew Whittingdale, Mr John Yeo, Mr Tim Jones, Andrew Perry, Claire Wiggin, Bill Young, rh Sir George Jones, Mr David Phillips, Stephen Willetts, rh Mr David Zahawi, Nadhim Jones, Mr Marcus Pickles, rh Mr Eric Williams, Mr Mark Kawczynski, Daniel Pincher, Christopher Williams, Roger Tellers for the Noes: Kelly, Chris Poulter, Dr Daniel Williams, Stephen Miss Chloe Smith and Kirby, Simon Prisk, Mr Mark Williamson, Gavin Mr Robert Goodwill Knight, rh Mr Greg Raab, Mr Dominic Kwarteng, Kwasi Randall, rh Mr John Question accordingly negatived. Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reckless, Mark Lamb, Norman Redwood, rh Mr John Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill. Lancaster, Mark Rees-Mogg, Jacob The Committee divided: Ayes 310, Noes 198. Latham, Pauline Reid, Mr Alan Leadsom, Andrea Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Division No. 27] [4.42 pm Lee, Jessica Robertson, Hugh Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Mr Laurence AYES Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan Adams, Nigel Cash, Mr William Lefroy, Jeremy Rosindell, Andrew Afriyie, Adam Chishti, Rehman Leigh, Mr Edward Russell, Bob Aldous, Peter Chope, Mr Christopher Leslie, Charlotte Rutley, David Alexander, rh Danny Clappison, Mr James Lewis, Brandon Sanders, Mr Adrian Andrew, Stuart Clark, rh Greg Lewis, Dr Julian Sandys, Laura Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Coffey, Dr Thérèse Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Scott, Mr Lee Bacon, Mr Richard Collins, Damian Lloyd, Stephen Sharma, Alok Bagshawe, Ms Louise Colvile, Oliver Lopresti, Jack Shelbrooke, Alec Baker, Steve Cox, Mr Geoffrey Lord, Jonathan Simmonds, Mark Baldry, Tony Crockart, Mike Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith Baldwin, Harriett Crouch, Tracey Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Barclay, Stephen Davey, Mr Edward Macleod, Mary Smith, Henry Barker, Gregory Davies, David T. C. Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Julian Baron, Mr John (Monmouth) Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Sir Robert Barwell, Gavin Davies, Glyn May, rh Mrs Theresa Soubry, Anna Bebb, Guto Davies, Philip Maynard, Paul Spencer, Mr Mark Bellingham, Mr Henry Davis, rh Mr David McCartney, Jason Stanley, rh Sir John Benyon, Richard de Bois, Nick McCartney, Karl Stephenson, Andrew Beresford, Sir Paul Dinenage, Caroline McIntosh, Miss Anne Stevenson, John Berry, Jake Djanogly, Mr Jonathan McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stewart, Bob Bingham, Andrew Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen McPartland, Stephen Stewart, Iain Binley, Mr Brian Doyle-Price, Jackie McVey, Esther Stewart, Rory Birtwistle, Gordon Drax, Richard Menzies, Mark Stride, Mel Blackman, Bob Duddridge, James Mercer, Patrick Stuart, Mr Graham Blackwood, Nicola Duncan Smith, rh Mr Metcalfe, Stephen Stunell, Andrew Boles, Nick Iain Miller, Maria Sturdy, Julian Bone, Mr Peter Dunne, Mr Philip Mills, Nigel Swales, Ian Bottomley, Peter Ellis, Michael Milton, Anne Swayne, Mr Desmond Bradley, Karen Ellison, Jane Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Swinson, Jo Brady, Mr Graham Ellwood, Mr Tobias Moore, rh Michael Swire, Mr Hugo Brake, Tom Eustice, George Morgan, Nicky Syms, Mr Robert Bray, Angie Evans, Graham Morris, Anne Marie Tapsell, Sir Peter Brazier, Mr Julian Evans, Jonathan Morris, David Teather, Sarah Bridgen, Andrew Evennett, Mr David Morris, James Thurso, John Brine, Mr Steve Fabricant, Michael Mosley, Stephen Timpson, Mr Edward Browne, Mr Jeremy Fallon, Michael Mowat, David Tomlinson, Justin Bruce, Fiona Farron, Tim Mundell, rh David Tredinnick, David Bruce, rh Malcolm Featherstone, Lynne Munt, Tessa Truss, Elizabeth Buckland, Mr Robert Field, Mr Mark Murray, Sheryll Turner, Mr Andrew Burley, Mr Aidan Foster, Mr Don Murrison, Dr Andrew Tyrie, Mr Andrew Burns, Conor Fox,rhDrLiam Neill, Robert Uppal, Paul Burns, Mr Simon Francois, rh Mr Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Vara, Mr Shailesh Burrowes, Mr David Freer, Mike Newton, Sarah Vickers, Martin Burstow, Mr Paul Fullbrook, Lorraine Nokes, Caroline Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Burt, Alistair Fuller, Richard Norman, Jesse Walker, Mr Charles Burt, Lorely Garnier, Mr Edward Nuttall, Mr David Walker, Mr Robin Byles, Dan Garnier, Mark O’Brien, Mr Stephen Wallace, Mr Ben Cairns, Alun Gauke, Mr David Offord, Mr Matthew Walter, Mr Robert Campbell, rh Sir Menzies George, Andrew Ollerenshaw, Eric Ward, Mr David Carmichael, Mr Alistair Gibb, Mr Nick Opperman, Guy Weatherley, Mike Carmichael, Neil Gilbert, Stephen Ottaway, Richard Webb, Steve Carswell, Mr Douglas Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl 1167 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1168

Glen, John Lewis, Brandon Sanders, Mr Adrian Turner, Mr Andrew Goldsmith, Zac Lewis, Dr Julian Sandys, Laura Tyrie, Mr Andrew Gove, rh Michael Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Scott, Mr Lee Uppal, Paul Graham, Richard Lloyd, Stephen Sharma, Alok Vara, Mr Shailesh Grant, Mrs Helen Lopresti, Jack Shelbrooke, Alec Vickers, Martin Gray, Mr James Lord, Jonathan Simmonds, Mark Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Grayling, rh Chris Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith Walker, Mr Charles Green, Damian Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Walker, Mr Robin Greening, Justine Macleod, Mary Smith, Henry Wallace, Mr Ben Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Julian Walter, Mr Robert Griffiths, Andrew May, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Sir Robert Ward, Mr David Gummer, Ben Maynard, Paul Soubry, Anna Weatherley, Mike Gyimah, Mr Sam McCartney, Jason Spencer, Mr Mark Webb, Steve Halfon, Robert McCartney, Karl Stanley, rh Sir John Wharton, James Hames, Duncan McIntosh, Miss Anne Stephenson, Andrew Wheeler, Heather Hammond, Stephen McLoughlin, rh Mr Stevenson, John White, Chris Hancock, Matthew Patrick Stewart, Bob Whittaker, Craig Hands, Greg McPartland, Stephen Stewart, Iain Whittingdale, Mr John Harper, Mr Mark McVey, Esther Stewart, Rory Wiggin, Bill Harrington, Richard Menzies, Mark Stride, Mel Willetts, rh Mr David Harris, Rebecca Mercer, Patrick Stuart, Mr Graham Williams, Mr Mark Hart, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Stunell, Andrew Williams, Roger Harvey, Nick Miller, Maria Sturdy, Julian Williams, Stephen Haselhurst, rh Sir Mills, Nigel Swales, Ian Williamson, Gavin Alan Milton, Anne Swayne, Mr Desmond Wilson, Mr Rob Hayes, Mr John Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Swinson, Jo Wollaston, Dr Sarah Heald, Mr Oliver Moore, rh Michael Swire, Mr Hugo Wright, Jeremy Heath, Mr David Morgan, Nicky Syms, Mr Robert Wright, Simon Heaton-Harris, Chris Morris, Anne Marie Tapsell, Sir Peter Yeo, Mr Tim Hemming, John Morris, David Teather, Sarah Young, rh Sir George Henderson, Gordon Morris, James Thurso, John Zahawi, Nadhim Hendry, Charles Mosley, Stephen Timpson, Mr Edward Herbert, rh Nick Mowat, David Tomlinson, Justin Tellers for the Ayes: Hinds, Damian Mundell, rh David Tredinnick, David Mr Robert Goodwill and Hoban, Mr Mark Munt, Tessa Truss, Elizabeth Miss Chloe Smith Hollingbery, George Murray, Sheryll Hollobone, Mr Philip Murrison, Dr Andrew NOES Holloway, Mr Adam Neill, Robert Hopkins, Kris Newmark, Mr Brooks Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Curran, Margaret Horwood, Martin Newton, Sarah Alexander, Heidi Danczuk, Simon Howarth, Mr Gerald Nokes, Caroline Ali, Rushanara Darling, rh Mr Alistair Howell, John Norman, Jesse Anderson, Mr David David, Mr Wayne Hughes, Simon Nuttall, Mr David Bailey, Mr Adrian Davidson, Mr Ian Huhne, rh Chris O’Brien, Mr Stephen Bain, Mr William Davies, Geraint Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Offord, Mr Matthew Banks, Gordon De Piero, Gloria Huppert, Dr Julian Ollerenshaw, Eric Barron, rh Mr Kevin Denham, rh Mr John Hurd, Mr Nick Opperman, Guy Beckett, rh Margaret Dobbin, Jim Jackson, Mr Stewart Ottaway, Richard Begg, Miss Anne Dobson, rh Frank James, Margot Paice, Mr James Benn, rh Hilary Docherty, Thomas Javid, Sajid Parish, Neil Blenkinsop, Tom Donohoe, Mr Brian Jenkin, Mr Bernard Patel, Priti Blomfield, Paul H. Johnson, Gareth Penrose, John Blunkett, rh Mr David Doran, Mr Frank Johnson, Joseph Percy, Andrew Brennan, Kevin Dowd, Jim Jones, Andrew Perry, Claire Brown, Lyn Doyle, Gemma Jones, Mr David Phillips, Stephen Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Dromey, Jack Jones, Mr Marcus Pickles, rh Mr Eric Bryant, Chris Dugher, Michael Kawczynski, Daniel Pincher, Christopher Buck, Ms Karen Eagle, Ms Angela Kelly, Chris Poulter, Dr Daniel Burden, Richard Eagle, Maria Kirby, Simon Prisk, Mr Mark Byrne, rh Mr Liam Edwards, Jonathan Knight, rh Mr Greg Raab, Mr Dominic Campbell, Mr Alan Efford, Clive Kwarteng, Kwasi Randall, rh Mr John Campbell, Mr Ronnie Elliott, Julie Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reckless, Mark Caton, Martin Ellman, Mrs Louise Lamb, Norman Redwood, rh Mr John Chapman, Mrs Jenny Engel, Natascha Lancaster, Mark Rees-Mogg, Jacob Clark, Katy Esterson, Bill Latham, Pauline Reid, Mr Alan Coaker, Vernon Evans, Chris Leadsom, Andrea Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Coffey, Ann Farrelly, Paul Lee, Jessica Robertson, Hugh Corbyn, Jeremy Field, rh Mr Frank Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Mr Laurence Crausby, Mr David Fitzpatrick, Jim Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan Creasy, Stella Flello, Robert Lefroy, Jeremy Rosindell, Andrew Cruddas, Jon Flint, rh Caroline Leigh, Mr Edward Russell, Bob Cunningham, Alex Flynn, Paul Leslie, Charlotte Rutley, David Cunningham, Tony Fovargue, Yvonne 1169 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1170

Francis, Dr Hywel Mudie, Mr George Clause 6 Gapes, Mike Munn, Meg Gardiner, Barry Murphy, rh Mr Jim Gilmore, Sheila Murphy, rh Paul TREATMENT OF PERSONS AT AGE 75 Glass, Pat Murray, Ian Glindon, Mrs Mary Nandy, Lisa Godsiff, Mr Roger Nash, Pamela Stewart Hosie: I beg to move amendment 16, page 3, Goggins, rh Paul O’Donnell, Fiona line 12, leave out ‘22 June 2010’ and insert ‘a date set by Goodman, Helen Onwurah, Chi the Secretary of State by regulation.’. Greatrex, Tom Osborne, Sandra Green, Kate Paisley, Ian Greenwood, Lilian Pearce, Teresa The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Griffith, Nia Phillipson, Bridget Evans): With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment Hain, rh Mr Peter Pound, Stephen 17, in schedule 3, page 19, line 38, leave out ‘22 June Hanson, rh Mr David Qureshi, Yasmin 2010’ and insert ‘a date set by the Secretary of State by Havard, Mr Dai Raynsford, rh Mr Nick regulation.’. Healey, rh John Reynolds, Emma Hepburn, Mr Stephen Reynolds, Jonathan Clause stand part. Heyes, David Riordan, Mrs Linda Schedule 3 stand part. Hillier, Meg Robertson, Angus Hilling, Julie Robertson, John Hodge, rh Margaret Rotheram, Steve Stewart Hosie: I do not intend to delay the Committee. Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Roy, Mr Frank By and large, I am very supportive of clause 6. The Hoey, Kate Roy, Lindsay two-year extension for people reaching the age of 75 in Hopkins, Kelvin Ruddock, rh Joan order to allow them to buy an annuity when it is most Hosie, Stewart Sarwar, Anas effective for them is a good thing to do. The clause Howarth, rh Mr George Seabeck, Alison seems to be pretty well drafted and the description of it Hunt, Tristram Sharma, Mr Virendra is extremely good. I am pleased about the protection in Irranca-Davies, Huw Sheridan, Jim paragraph 8(2) of schedule 3, which provides that if a Jackson, Glenda Shuker, Gavin member dies before a year has passed since their James, Mrs Siân C. Singh, Mr Marsha 75th birthday, and at the date of death there are still Johnson, Diana R. Skinner, Mr Dennis funds held for the purposes of the arrangement that Jones, Helen Smith, rh Mr Andrew Jones, Mr Kevan Smith, Angela (Penistone and have not been designated as available to pay an unsecured Jones, Susan Elan Stocksbridge) pension, not paid as a lump sum, and not applied Joyce, Eric Smith, Nick towards the provision of a scheme pension or a dependent’s Keen, Alan Smith, Owen scheme pension, those funds are treated as though they Kendall, Liz Soulsby, Sir Peter had been designated as available for the payment of an Khan, rh Sadiq Straw, rh Mr Jack unsecured pension and will then be taxed on death at a Lammy, rh Mr David Stringer, Graham rate of only 35%. That makes sense. Lavery, Ian Stuart, Ms Gisela However, I am aware, through a constituent of my Lazarowicz, Mark Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Leslie, Chris Thomas, Mr Gareth hon. Friend the Member for Angus (Mr Weir), that Lloyd, Tony Thornberry, Emily there are a small number of individuals who have Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Timms, rh Stephen already reached 75, or will hit 75 before 22 June, and Love, Mr Andrew Trickett, Jon who did not buy an annuity because it was not worth it Lucas, Caroline Turner, Karl or not effective. I want to describe the position of that Lucas, Ian Twigg, Stephen person and then see what help the Minister might be MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Umunna, Mr Chuka able to provide, or hear her explanation of how the Mactaggart, Fiona Vaz, Valerie clause might assist. Mahmood, Shabana Walley, Joan Mann, John Watts, Mr Dave As the rates for annuities were very low, this gentleman Marsden, Mr Gordon Weir, Mr Mike did not take up one on reaching 75 in 2007. Instead, he McCann, Mr Michael Whiteford, Dr Eilidh chose a scheme pension that allowed him, subject to McClymont, Gregg Whitehead, Dr Alan pension regulation supervision—a specialist firm did McDonagh, Siobhain Wicks, rh Malcolm that for him—to continue to manage his pension fund McDonnell, John Williamson, Chris for a period of 10 years and take the actuarially calculated McFadden, rh Mr Pat Wilson, Phil levels of income from it. That was very sensible and McGovern, Alison Wilson, Sammy prudent. However, the downside is that on his death, if McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Winterton, rh Ms Rosie any of that fund is left, it will be subject to inheritance McKechin, Ann Wood, Mike tax at a rate of 80% before it passes to a family member McKinnell, Catherine Woodcock, John of his choice. Mearns, Ian Woolas, Mr Phil Michael, rh Alun Wright, David Miliband, rh Edward Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Indeed it was a constituent Morden, Jessica Tellers for the Noes: of mine who brought the matter to our attention. Does Morrice, Graeme Kerry McCarthy and my hon. Friend think that a way round might have been Morris, Grahame M. Mary Creagh for the clause to allow anyone to take the extra two years if they were to reach age 75 or were already in that Question accordingly agreed to. position? I cannot imagine that the numbers affected would be huge, but it would have got round this particular Clause 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill. problem. 1171 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1172

Stewart Hosie: It may have got round the problem. to turn their pension savings into a retirement income, That is one of the questions that I shall put to the provided that they have sufficient income to avoid Minister. exhausting their savings prematurely and falling back If the 80% IHT rate is correct, as I believe it is, the on the state; fourthly, that pension benefits taken during situation seems dreadfully unfair, although I recognise an individual’s lifetime should be taxed at income tax that it occurs because of the tax benefits of the pension rates, with the tax-free pension commencement lump saving over a person’s lifetime. Of course, people cannot sum continuing to be available; and fifthly, that on benefit from the same tax twice; I appreciate that. death, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned, the pension However, I suspect that of the people over 75 who had savings that have been accumulated with tax relief should the means to purchase an annuity but did not, very few be taxed at an appropriate rate to recover past relief would want to do so now. We may be talking about provided, unless they are used to provide a pension for a some very wealthy people who would always manage dependant. Those principles will ensure that the new their own pension anyway. I welcome the protection for rules offer maximum flexibility to pension savers, while those who hit the age of 75 on 22 June or thereafter, but avoiding undue complexity or incurring a cost to the people aged between 75 and 77 will feel extremely hard Exchequer. done by if they just miss that cut-off date. There are The proposals set out in the consultation document also those who were already 75 a year or two before and will create additional flexibility for anyone saving into a chose not to buy an annuity but are managing their defined contribution pension. That new flexibility means pension provision. that individuals will be able to decide for themselves This is a matter of natural justice and fairness. I whether and when to purchase an annuity. It will also imagine that the numbers of people who are in this allow them to leave their pension fund invested in an position and would want to buy an annuity are very income draw-down arrangement beyond the age of 75, small, so I am looking to see what protection there and to take benefits from their pension fund later than might be in the Bill. We may reach a situation whereby that age if they wish. In addition, individuals who can there is simply a cut-off, so that even if someone reached demonstrate that they have secured a minimum income the age of 75 on 21 June 2010 and found it not worth will be free to draw down unlimited lump sums. The buying an annuity, they would no longer be able to take changes will also allow the pensions and annuities industry advantage of the two-year gap, which would be a sensible to consider more innovative products, giving consumers thing to do. greater choice. I hope that the Minister can give us some comfort as While the new rules are being finalised, it is important regards the small number of people, all of whom are that individuals who are about to turn 75, and who have beyond the age of 75, who will pay 80% IHT on any not yet made a decision about what to do with their remaining funds at the time of their death, compared pension savings, are not disadvantaged in the meantime. with those who, within the provisions of the clause, will The changes set out in schedule 3 are the minimum pay only 35% if they die at that time. I would like an necessary to enable those reaching 75 on or after Budget assurance that the Bill and the clause will help that day to defer the decision on what to do with their small number of people too. pension savings. The Bill achieves that by providing for the pension 5pm tax rules that previously applied to draw-down arrangements only up to age 75 to continue to apply up to an individual’s Justine Greening: I am grateful to the hon. Member 77th birthday. That means that the higher inheritance for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) for his questions, and tax charges that apply specifically to pension scheme it is probably wise if I take this opportunity to set out to members aged 75 or over will not apply to individuals the Committee the background of clause 6 and address who are about to turn 75, and who have not yet made a the issues that he raised. I am sure that he will be decision on what to do with their pension. They will not interested in the consultation document that has been now have to make a decision until they reach 77, and in launched today on a number of them. the meantime we will have worked through the consultation The Chancellor announced in the Budget that the process. Clause 6 and schedule 3 will therefore ensure Government would end the effective requirement to that they need make no decision until after new rules purchase an annuity by age 75 with effect from April 2011. are finalised next year. To do otherwise would be unfair The reason why we want to do that is that it will provide and confusing, and changing the rules retrospectively greater flexibility and choice for the individuals affected. would add unnecessary complexity. In considering the hon. Gentleman’s amendments, it is important for the Committee to understand why we are Mr Weir: I understand the Economic Secretary’s making that change and how we are going about it. point and I am closely following her argument. Does A consultation on the detail of the changes was she accept that many people did not get annuities in the launched earlier today by my hon. Friend the Financial past two or three years because the economic position Secretary, and our intention is to introduce any changes meant that it was simply not a good time to buy them? from April 2011. As set out in the consultation document, Those people are effectively being penalised. Would it the Government will be guided by the following principles not be fair, as I suggested in an earlier intervention, to in implementing the changes: first, that the purpose of say that everyone had two years from now, while the tax-relieved pension savings is to provide an income in consultation goes ahead and changes are being made, to retirement; secondly, that any changes to the pension consider their position? Perhaps some people will wish tax rules should not incur Exchequer cost or create any to continue as they are, but at least they would have the opportunities for tax avoidance; thirdly, that individuals option, which is rightly being given to people who are should have the flexibility to decide when and how best approaching 75. 1173 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1174

Justine Greening: I thank the hon. Gentleman for to which the Economic Secretary referred, on the matter. that intervention. I will set out our overall approach to It appeared without the courtesy of any warning before the issue that he raised. In every individual case, there our debate on the subject. are specifics. I was not aware of the case of the individual I spent some time on the Treasury website trying to whom he mentioned, and I would be happy to give him avoid the increasingly odious comments on the “spending a more specific answer if he gives me details. However, challenge website”, which continues to publish offensive in principle, he raises a difficult issue. It is doubtless and outrageous suggestions for savings, such as sterilising hard for people who reached their 75th birthday before the poor, reopening the workhouses and the forced we got to Budget day when we announced the proposed repatriation of immigrants. It appears to be completely changes. We had pressed the previous Government to unmoderated by the Treasury, and I hope that the take action earlier, but it was left to us, on coming into Economic Secretary will convey my strong view that government, to start to take the steps that we all agree something should be done about that thing on the are important. We do not agree with making retrospective Treasury website. legislation, except in the most egregious cases. As he What I could not find on the Treasury website, right said, the provision affects only a few hundred people. up to the point when I came into the Chamber for The inheritance tax charge of 80% would apply to today’s debate, was a copy of the consultation document estates over the inheritance tax threshold of £360,000 a that the written ministerial statement said would be year. On the face of it, I cannot give much comfort to there. I have a copy of the complete list of Treasury the constituent of the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir). consultation documents that was on the website at We are trying to improve the position of those who around 12.30 pm. It featured the bank levy consultation, reached 75 on or after Budget day, but I have set out the but not the consultation alluded to in the written statement. basic principles, and the details of the constituent’s case I therefore had to go the Library and have it printed so may or may not fit them. If the hon. Gentleman provides that I had the chance to look at it before I dashed into the exact details, I will give him a more exact answer. I the Chamber, but the Minister has been waving it hope that I have provided some background and that about. Will it be the usual behaviour of those on the we can find a way forward to clarify and resolve the Treasury Bench to give Members of the House so little specific issue. time to look at a 53-page document? There was no advance warning, and the document was unavailable on Stewart Hosie: I thank the Economic Secretary for the Treasury website, even though the written ministerial her response. Clearly, the way forward for people reaching statement said it would be there. The Minister should 75 is sensible. The two-year deferral until the consultation get her Department to do a lot better than it has done is complete is right. It recognises the problem and today. That the document was unavailable anywhere ensures that no one else falls through the cracks between other than via a photocopying machine in the Library now and the end of the consultation. I am slightly at the last minute is a discourtesy to the House. disappointed that no hope was offered that the consultation When I had a look at the consultation as I sat on the could allow a slightly retrospective element to those Front Bench while other debates were going on, the first very few people who have become 75 in the past few thing I noticed was that the consultation will be a mere years, did not take an annuity and are managing their eight weeks long. It starts today and will end on own funds. I will not press the amendment, but I will 10 September, which is four weeks shorter than is have another think about it before we reach Report next recommended as good practice in the code on consultation, week, when I may revert to it. I beg to ask leave to the second criterion of which states: withdraw the amendment. “Consultations should normally last for at least 12 weeks with Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. consideration given to longer timescales where feasible and sensible”. The consultation is an eight-week, rushed consultation Ms Angela Eagle: I beg to move amendment 61, that includes the entirety of the August holiday, when page 3, line 12, at end add— many of the people who have expertise on this matter ‘(2) Schedule 3 shall not have effect unless the Chancellor of will be sunning themselves in very much nicer climes the Exchequer has laid before the House of Commons a report than most of us could probably afford to visit, before on the implications of the abolition of compulsory annuitisation they come back to pronounce. That is a very peculiar of pensions, including— way to consult on such an important matter. (a) the revenue implications of abolition; and Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): Does my (b) a distributional analysis showing who would benefit from abolition.’. hon. Friend also find it a little strange that there is such a short consultation period when we are talking about a The amendment would mean that the age at which two-year extension? That seems contradictory. compulsory annuitisation is required could not rise, as the Government announced in the Budget, from the Ms Eagle: I too wanted to ask the Minister this: what current 75 to 77 until the Chancellor lays before the on earth is the rush about? One thing about annuitising House a report setting out the implications of abolishing and pension rules is that she has a little run-in time to the compulsory annuitisation of pensions savings. That consider—at some length—the implications of her would include the revenue implications and a distributional proposals. I do not understand why there was such analysis of who would benefit from the abolition, in the short notice and why the consultation is so rushed. I am interests of transparency. It is important to explore in forming an impression that the Government have already more detail the Government’s precise thinking and decided what they are going to do and that the consultation intentions. is a sham. If it is, they ought to have the decency to tell Before I do that, I shall comment on the sudden us what they have decided and not to consult at all. I appearance this morning of a written ministerial statement, would not have thought that the many experts who will 1175 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1176

[Ms Angela Eagle] when large amounts of tax-privileged income are at stake. The Minister knows that, which is why she said be sunning themselves over the August holidays will that there would be no increase in tax-avoidance thank the Government very much for giving them such opportunities. a short time to respond. The foreword of the consultation document states: Mr Redwood: Can the hon. Lady remind the House how many private sector final salary pension schemes “The Government wants to foster a new culture of saving in the UK.” actually closed as a result of the taxes and regulations introduced by the last Government? We would all agree with that, and that a rebalancing towards saving is necessary. Therefore, it is important to Ms Eagle: We would have to have a long debate about prioritise large numbers of people saving appropriately. a range of issues to answer that, but I am happy to I had a look to see what the Government have done so defend our record. The closure of defined-benefit schemes far to encourage saving, particularly in pensions, which took place for a range of reasons and the closures is what annuities are all about. Will the Minister explain began in earnest when I was still at school, so I do not quite how reducing public and private pensions by take personal responsibility for that. changing their definitions from RPI to CPI helps to When we look at the impact assessment, we see that increase pension saving? Yesterday, the Daily Mail and the changes will affect a tiny minority at the very top—a various other experts said that that is a raid on people’s mere 8,000 people on the Government’s estimates, out pension expectations of more than £100 billion in the of 445,000 people who annuitise every year. They will private sector, an amount that will accumulate year affect only those who can afford to live without touching after year. Can the Minister explain how that encourages their pension pot until fully 10 years after retiring. We pension saving? Will she confirm that the impact assessment know that two thirds of people take their annuity upon in this consultation lets the cat out of the bag when it retirement and that only a much smaller number of comes to changing annuitisation rules? We have no people last beyond 70, so the flexibilities that the particular problem, and certainly no philosophical problem Government are looking for will be required by only a with shifting the age of annuitisation from 75 to 77. tiny number of very rich people. The Minister therefore Longevity has increased and the last rules—and the age needs to justify why this is a priority and why we need a of 75—were set in 1956. Indeed, annuitisation was first rushed consultation of only eight weeks over the summer made compulsory in the Finance Bill of 1921, which to bring it about. was slightly before my time and I know that it was also before the Minister’s time. Mr Redwood: I will be brief, Mr Evans, because I believe that some Members have other things to do later 5.15 pm on. I also remind the House that in the Register of I am reassured by what the Minister says about what Members’ Financial Interests I have explained that I might be called red lines in the Treasury’s view of the offer business advice to a couple of companies. consultation. The first is that annuities should continue I would like to briefly praise the Minister and her in order to provide an income in retirement rather than team for their proposal. For many years, the Conservatives as a tax-privileged method of saving large amounts of while in opposition urged the then Labour Government money that can then be taken as a lump sum over and to allow people a bit more flexibility and freedom with above the 25% that can already be taken tax-free. Others their money in retirement. Even now, after the election are that there should be no Exchequer costs and no defeat, the party does not get it. This was not the main tax-avoidance activities. The latter might be difficult to reason it lost the election, but it was one of many things sustain if the Minister intends to make changes that where it misread the public mood. People want more introduce a minimum income requirement. Interesting freedom and flexibility over their own resources and attempts have been made to define a minimum income more control over their own lives, but Labour was requirement to allow someone to take complete usage—with always trying to stop them. This is a small but important appropriate tax paid, I hope—of the rest of the money move, and I think we might find that it affects rather in their pension pot. I know that the Government are more people than the hon. Lady says— consulting on that point, but it is not going to be an easy thing to decide. Ms Eagle: It is in the Government document. I notice also from the impact assessment that although the annuities market last year saw 445,000 people annuitise Mr Redwood: The hon. Lady is protesting. I know it up to £11 billion of funds so that they could take an is in the Government document, but I am suggesting income until they required it no longer, the estimate of that the Government might be wrong and might have how many individuals will actually be affected by this underestimated the number—it is extremely difficult to change is a mere 8,000. know how many people might take advantage of the provision. I also think it will not necessarily be only rich Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): At a time when people who are affected. I know that Labour never we need to encourage more people to make pension wants any successful people to make money and be able provision, does my hon. Friend think that these proposals to spend their money sensibly. will help? My concern is that having a minimum might reduce the numbers of people providing for their retirement Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): rather than increase them. It did a really good job stopping them. Ms Eagle: My hon. Friend raises a reasonable point. Mr Redwood: Indeed, it tried to stop them on many Changes in this area have to be made very carefully to occasions. If we do too much of that, however, we have avoid the law of unintended consequences, especially a poorer country, a smaller tax base and all the rest of 1177 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1178 it. It is a pity that the Labour party still has such a Whatever the bluster from the Opposition Benches, it downer on success, prudence and savers, but it might be cannot mask the fact that we are taking a positive step surprised—hopefully, pleasantly surprised—in due course forward on pensions today. We have launched what I to find that people on more modest means take advantage think will be a landmark consultation. Clause 6 and of this flexibility as well. We no longer live in a world in schedule 3 will give us the time to get that consultation which everybody retires at 65 and does no more work. I right over the summer and then bring forward legislation see around my constituency many people taking on in the forthcoming Finance Bill to ensure that people paid work into their late 60s and early 70s, either have more flexibility in dealing with their pensions, because they want to or, in some cases, because they because ultimately it is their money, which they have have to in order to supplement their resources. Why put aside for their retirement. We want them to be able should we debar them from this flexibility any more to deal with the pot that they have built up in a way that than richer people, if they have savings? suits them, rather than in a way that suits the country. Interestingly, we had a brief discussion about the fact Bill Esterson: The right hon. Gentleman mentioned that 75 has been the statutory age for some time. It was the record of the last Labour Government on pensions, first agreed in 1976, which is ironic, given the obviously but what about the record of the previous Conservative parallels between Britain then and now, with the Labour Government when it came to the mis-selling of pensions? Government then having to be bailed out by the I trust he would accept that that was a serious problem. International Monetary Fund and going on to leave a desolated economy.We are ensuring that we have sustainable The First Deputy Chairman: Order. That is much finances in our country over the coming years, so hopefully wider than the amendment. we will reach a different end point from that of that Labour Government. Mr Redwood: I would love to deal with that point, but I very much welcome the fact that the shadow Minister I shall take your advice, Mr Evans. The real sin was the nevertheless supports the consultation going ahead, tax and regulatory raid on pensions under the last and I can assure her that we are going to get on with it. Government, which led to the wholesale closures of We believe that eight weeks is plenty of time to get a final salary schemes, and as a result of which most response, given that the issue is one that people have people starting out in work today have no access to a been pressing Governments past—and now present—to final salary work-based scheme in the way that their address. We are a new Government, so we are getting on parents’ generation did. That is a great tragedy. However, with adopting a new and improved approach to annuities this provision is a small move in the right direction, so I and pensions, as we can see from today’s debate. I hope that the House will warmly welcome it. Well done therefore very much hope that the hon. Lady will withdraw to the Minister. her amendment, so that the clause and the consultation can improve the legislation, creating more flexibility in Justine Greening: I thank my right hon. Friend for his pension law for the people who so badly need it. kind words. This provision is a step forward. As he said, it might be a small one, but it is an important one that Ms Eagle: I am not really that satisfied with the will open up a flexibility that many whom we want to answers that the hon. Lady has given, as she will not be encourage to start saving for a pension will value, which surprised to hear, after that brief reprise of the 1970s. is why it is important that we take the time to make an My information is that the Finance Act 1921 introduced early start on this matter. compulsory annuitisation and that the current age of I want to respond to a couple of the shadow Minister’s 75 was introduced in 1956, which was a Conservative points, including the one about the consultation document time, not a Labour time. not being published in good time. This clause allows us Regardless of the Minister’s point scoring, however, to engage in a consultation. It was not necessary to it is important that we take an appropriate amount of launch the consultation today, but as it was it was time to see how any changes to the annuitisation regime launched at 12.30 pm, and by the time we got to the might work in practice. The Opposition have no objection clause it was 5 o’clock—several hours after the document to the idea of having a higher age. However, there is became available—which has meant that we have had a some scepticism about the practicality of having a more informed debate today. minimum retirement income and how it might be worked out, although that is part of the consultation, which no Ms Eagle: I looked at the written ministerial statement doubt we will now all be struggling with over August. It at about quarter to 11 this morning, and it said that the is a shame that the information was not available in a document was available on the Treasury website, but it more timely fashion, so that we could have done more was not there. preparation for this debate. Because the amendment seeks more information and because the Government seem to be rushing ahead so precipitously, we would Justine Greening: We are getting into the same sort of like to press the amendment to a vote. argument that we had in the previous debate, where if we had put the consultation document up and had not Question put, That the amendment be made. had a sentence on an earlier webpage saying that it was The Committee divided: Ayes 187, Noes 313. there, we would have been accused of hiding it away. I Division No. 28] [5.29 pm am afraid that we have to do one before the other, and clearly in this case we decided to put out the statement AYES that the consultation was going up on the website, and then we put it there, which is where it has been since Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Ali, Rushanara 12.30 pm. Alexander, Heidi Anderson, Mr David 1179 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1180

Bailey, Mr Adrian Griffith, Nia Ruddock, rh Joan Twigg, Stephen Bain, Mr William Hain, rh Mr Peter Sarwar, Anas Umunna, Mr Chuka Banks, Gordon Hanson, rh Mr David Seabeck, Alison Vaz, rh Keith Barron, rh Mr Kevin Havard, Mr Dai Sharma, Mr Virendra Vaz, Valerie Beckett, rh Margaret Healey, rh John Shuker, Gavin Walley, Joan Begg, Miss Anne Hepburn, Mr Stephen Singh, Mr Marsha Watts, Mr Dave Benn, rh Hilary Heyes, David Skinner, Mr Dennis Weir, Mr Mike Blenkinsop, Tom Hillier, Meg Smith, rh Mr Andrew Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Blomfield, Paul Hilling, Julie Smith, Angela (Penistone and Whitehead, Dr Alan Blunkett, rh Mr David Hodge, rh Margaret Stocksbridge) Wicks, rh Malcolm Brennan, Kevin Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Smith, Nick Williamson, Chris Brown, Lyn Hoey, Kate Smith, Owen Wilson, Phil Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hopkins, Kelvin Soulsby, Sir Peter Wilson, Sammy Bryant, Chris Hosie, Stewart Straw, rh Mr Jack Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Buck, Ms Karen Howarth, rh Mr George Stringer, Graham Wood, Mike Burden, Richard Hunt, Tristram Stuart, Ms Gisela Woodcock, John Byrne, rh Mr Liam Irranca-Davies, Huw Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Woolas, Mr Phil Cairns, David Jackson, Glenda Thomas, Mr Gareth Wright, David Campbell, Mr Alan Johnson, Diana R. Thornberry, Emily Campbell, Mr Ronnie Jones, Helen Timms, rh Stephen Tellers for the Ayes: Caton, Martin Jones, Mr Kevan Trickett, Jon Mary Creagh and Chapman, Mrs Jenny Jones, Susan Elan Turner, Karl Kerry McCarthy Clark, Katy Joyce, Eric Coaker, Vernon Keen, Alan NOES Coffey, Ann Kendall, Liz Cooper, Rosie Lammy, rh Mr David Adams, Nigel Cable, rh Vince Corbyn, Jeremy Lavery, Ian Afriyie, Adam Cairns, Alun Crausby, Mr David Leslie, Chris Aldous, Peter Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Creasy, Stella Lloyd, Tony Andrew, Stuart Carmichael, Mr Alistair Cruddas, Jon Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Carmichael, Neil Cunningham, Alex Love, Mr Andrew Bacon, Mr Richard Carswell, Mr Douglas Cunningham, Tony Lucas, Caroline Bagshawe, Ms Louise Cash, Mr William Curran, Margaret Lucas, Ian Baker, Norman Chishti, Rehman Danczuk, Simon MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Baker, Steve Chope, Mr Christopher Darling, rh Mr Alistair Mactaggart, Fiona Baldry, Tony Clappison, Mr James David, Mr Wayne Mahmood, Shabana Baldwin, Harriett Clark, rh Greg Davidson, Mr Ian Mann, John Barclay, Stephen Coffey, Dr Thérèse Davies, Geraint Marsden, Mr Gordon Barker, Gregory Collins, Damian De Piero, Gloria McClymont, Gregg Baron, Mr John Colvile, Oliver Dobbin, Jim McDonagh, Siobhain Barwell, Gavin Cox, Mr Geoffrey Dobson, rh Frank McDonnell, John Bebb, Guto Crockart, Mike Docherty, Thomas McFadden, rh Mr Pat Bellingham, Mr Henry Crouch, Tracey Doran, Mr Frank McGovern, Alison Benyon, Richard Davey, Mr Edward Dowd, Jim McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Beresford, Sir Paul Davies, David T. C. Doyle, Gemma McKechin, Ann Berry, Jake (Monmouth) Dromey, Jack McKinnell, Catherine Bingham, Andrew Davies, Glyn Dugher, Michael Mearns, Ian Binley, Mr Brian Davies, Philip Eagle, Ms Angela Michael, rh Alun Birtwistle, Gordon Davis, rh Mr David Eagle, Maria Morden, Jessica Blackman, Bob de Bois, Nick Edwards, Jonathan Morris, Grahame M. Blackwood, Nicola Dinenage, Caroline Efford, Clive Mudie, Mr George Boles, Nick Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Elliott, Julie Munn, Meg Bone, Mr Peter Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Ellman, Mrs Louise Murphy, rh Mr Jim Bottomley, Peter Dorries, Nadine Engel, Natascha Murphy, rh Paul Bradley, Karen Doyle-Price, Jackie Esterson, Bill Murray, Ian Brady, Mr Graham Drax, Richard Evans, Chris Nandy, Lisa Brake, Tom Duddridge, James Field, rh Mr Frank Nash, Pamela Bray, Angie Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Fitzpatrick, Jim O’Donnell, Fiona Brazier, Mr Julian Dunne, Mr Philip Flello, Robert Onwurah, Chi Bridgen, Andrew Ellis, Michael Flint, rh Caroline Osborne, Sandra Brine, Mr Steve Ellison, Jane Flynn, Paul Pearce, Teresa Browne, Mr Jeremy Ellwood, Mr Tobias Fovargue, Yvonne Phillipson, Bridget Bruce, Fiona Eustice, George Gapes, Mike Pound, Stephen Bruce, rh Malcolm Evans, Graham Gardiner, Barry Qureshi, Yasmin Buckland, Mr Robert Evans, Jonathan Glass, Pat Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Burley, Mr Aidan Evennett, Mr David Glindon, Mrs Mary Reynolds, Emma Burns, Conor Fabricant, Michael Godsiff, Mr Roger Reynolds, Jonathan Burns, Mr Simon Fallon, Michael Goggins, rh Paul Riordan, Mrs Linda Burrowes, Mr David Farron, Tim Goodman, Helen Robertson, Angus Burstow, Mr Paul Featherstone, Lynne Greatrex, Tom Rotheram, Steve Burt, Alistair Field, Mr Mark Green, Kate Roy, Mr Frank Burt, Lorely Foster, Mr Don Greenwood, Lilian Roy, Lindsay Byles, Dan Francois, rh Mr Mark 1181 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1182

Freeman, George Latham, Pauline Robertson, Hugh Tredinnick, David Freer, Mike Lee, Jessica Robertson, Mr Laurence Truss, Elizabeth Fullbrook, Lorraine Lee, Dr Phillip Rogerson, Dan Turner, Mr Andrew Fuller, Richard Leech, Mr John Rosindell, Andrew Tyrie, Mr Andrew Garnier, Mr Edward Lefroy, Jeremy Russell, Bob Uppal, Paul Garnier, Mark Leigh, Mr Edward Rutley, David Vara, Mr Shailesh Gauke, Mr David Leslie, Charlotte Sandys, Laura Vickers, Martin George, Andrew Lewis, Brandon Scott, Mr Lee Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Gibb, Mr Nick Lewis, Dr Julian Sharma, Alok Walker, Mr Charles Gilbert, Stephen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Shelbrooke, Alec Walker, Mr Robin Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lilley, rh Mr Peter Simmonds, Mark Wallace, Mr Ben Glen, John Lloyd, Stephen Simpson, Mr Keith Walter, Mr Robert Goldsmith, Zac Lopresti, Jack Skidmore, Chris Weatherley, Mike Gove, rh Michael Lord, Jonathan Smith, Henry Webb, Steve Graham, Richard Loughton, Tim Smith, Julian Wharton, James Grant, Mrs Helen Lumley, Karen Smith, Sir Robert Wheeler, Heather Gray, Mr James Macleod, Mary Soubry, Anna White, Chris Grayling, rh Chris Main, Mrs Anne Spencer, Mr Mark Whittaker, Craig Green, Damian May, rh Mrs Theresa Stanley, rh Sir John Whittingdale, Mr John Greening, Justine Maynard, Paul Stephenson, Andrew Wiggin, Bill Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Jason Stevenson, John Willetts, rh Mr David Griffiths, Andrew McCartney, Karl Stewart, Bob Williams, Mr Mark Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne Stewart, Iain Williams, Roger Gyimah, Mr Sam McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stewart, Rory Williams, Stephen Halfon, Robert McPartland, Stephen Stride, Mel Williamson, Gavin Hames, Duncan McVey, Esther Stuart, Mr Graham Wilson, Mr Rob Hammond, Stephen Menzies, Mark Stunell, Andrew Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hancock, Matthew Mercer, Patrick Sturdy, Julian Wright, Jeremy Hands, Greg Metcalfe, Stephen Swayne, Mr Desmond Wright, Simon Harper, Mr Mark Miller, Maria Swinson, Jo Yeo, Mr Tim Harrington, Richard Mills, Nigel Swire, Mr Hugo Young, rh Sir George Harris, Rebecca Milton, Anne Syms, Mr Robert Hart, Simon Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Tapsell, Sir Peter Tellers for the Noes: Harvey, Nick Moore, rh Michael Timpson, Mr Edward Mr Robert Goodwill and Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mordaunt, Penny Tomlinson, Justin Miss Chloe Smith Hayes, Mr John Morgan, Nicky Heald, Mr Oliver Morris, Anne Marie Question accordingly negatived. Heath, Mr David Morris, David Heaton-Harris, Chris Morris, James Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Hemming, John Mosley, Stephen Schedule 3 agreed to. Henderson, Gordon Mundell, rh David Hendry, Charles Munt, Tessa Herbert, rh Nick Murray, Sheryll Clause 7 Hinds, Damian Murrison, Dr Andrew Hoban, Mr Mark Neill, Robert EXPENSES PAID TO MPS ETC Hollingbery, George Newmark, Mr Brooks Hollobone, Mr Philip Newton, Sarah Question proposed, That the clause stand part of Holloway, Mr Adam Nokes, Caroline the Bill. Hopkins, Kris Norman, Jesse Horwood, Martin Nuttall, Mr David Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): Schedule 4 provides Howarth, Mr Gerald O’Brien, Mr Stephen for the exemption from income tax of expenses paid or Howell, John Offord, Mr Matthew reimbursed to MPs, following the introduction under Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Ollerenshaw, Eric the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 of the popular Huppert, Dr Julian Opperman, Guy new scheme for paying the expenses of MPs administered Hurd, Mr Nick Ottaway, Richard by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. Jackson, Mr Stewart Parish, Neil I understand that that will broadly have the effect of James, Margot Patel, Priti maintaining—[Interruption.] Javid, Sajid Penrose, John Jenkin, Mr Bernard Percy, Andrew Johnson, Gareth Perry, Claire The First Deputy Chairman: Order. Far too many Johnson, Joseph Phillips, Stephen conversations are taking place in the Chamber. Will Jones, Andrew Pickles, rh Mr Eric those who are leaving please do so quietly? Jones, Mr David Pincher, Christopher Jones, Mr Marcus Poulter, Dr Daniel Stephen Timms: I appreciate that the arrangements Kawczynski, Daniel Prisk, Mr Mark will broadly have the effect of maintaining the tax Kelly, Chris Raab, Mr Dominic treatment that applied to similar expenses paid under Kirby, Simon Randall, rh Mr John the previous arrangements. Tax treatment of MPs’expenses Knight, rh Mr Greg Reckless, Mark used to be dealt with by specific legislation or long-standing Kwarteng, Kwasi Redwood, rh Mr John extra-statutory concessions. As hon. Members will know, Laing, Mrs Eleanor Rees-Mogg, Jacob a long-term project has been undertaken following the Lamb, Norman Reid, Mr Alan judgment in the Wilkinson case of 2006 to place all the Lancaster, Mark Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm statutory concessions on a proper legislative basis. Can 1183 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1184

[Stephen Timms] would exempt from income tax the cost of journeys by spouses or partners but not—as far as I can see—the the Minister confirm that the previous concession, which cost of journeys by children. Why is tax payable on I think is numbered A.54—Members of Parliament: those expenses but not on the others? accommodation, allowances and expenses—has, with this legislation, been withdrawn, and whether any of Justine Greening: I shall briefly talk about what we the other extra-statutory concessions outstanding are seek to achieve with clause 7 and schedule 4, and then affected by the Bill? try to answer the specific issues raised by the right hon. Gentleman. Robert Flello: My right hon. Friend said that schedule 4 Clause 7 introduces schedule 4, which provides for was broadly neutral in terms of income tax. Has he the income tax treatment of certain expenses paid or noted paragraph 1(4) on loans for deposits payable on reimbursed to Members of Parliament under the new rented accommodation—perhaps our constituency offices MP expenses scheme introduced and administered by or flats that we need in London because of the ridiculous the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. IPSA rules on staying in hotels? It is common practice For the main part, the changes introduced by the provisions for landlords to charge a deposit on flats, something are necessary to reflect the fact that expenses are no that we have to pay only because we are here representing longer paid under a resolution of the House but instead our constituents. Has my right hon. Friend noticed that are paid by IPSA under the authority of the Parliamentary there is a tax implication for us in that? Standards Act 2009. As we are all aware, expenses paid to Members have Stephen Timms: I confess that when I read the legislation come under close scrutiny over the past year, not just by that point did not strike me, but it has been raised and I the media and the public, but also by IPSA. In developing am grateful to my hon. Friend for putting it on the its new scheme, IPSA has taken account of the requirement record. of MPs to perform their duties both in their constituencies and in Westminster. It has decided that the expenses Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): To be helpful, covered by the exemptions introduced by the schedule a loan is not subject to income tax whereas if the loan are necessary for the performance of an MP’s parliamentary was interest free the difference between the interest rate functions. that someone might be charged and what they are not The key provisions will broadly maintain the long- charged would be. standing statutory exemptions for overnight accommodation and EU travel expenses that were Stephen Timms: I know that the hon. Gentleman is a introduced in recognition of the particular role of MPs. chartered tax specialist, as was acknowledged at a reception The provisions will codify elements of concessionary last night, so I defer to his understanding of these tax treatments that, because MPs are required to carry matters. out their duties both in their constituencies and in the The Bill is different from the IPSA scheme on a House, have applied for many years to certain UK couple of points. The IPSA rules say that when Members travel expenses paid to MPs. Additionally, they will are required to be at the House of Commons after reflect IPSA’s decision to continue to reimburse some 11 pm, non-London areas MPs who claim the London UK travel for MPs’ spouses and partners, albeit in more area living payment may claim for the cost of an overnight restricted circumstances. The schedule therefore puts stay in a hotel, subject to an upper limit. Any MP, the previous concessionary treatment on a statutory including London MPs like me and the Minister, may footing to allow those payments to continue to be made claim for the cost of an overnight stay in a hotel if it without tax being due. Finally, the provisions reflect would not be reasonable to return to any residence, IPSA’s decision to deal with payments for evening meals where they are required to be at the House of Commons separately from general expenditure connected to overnight because the House is sitting beyond 1 am. I do not accommodation, and the schedule now introduces a understand the different tax treatment of those two specific exemption for the costs of meals reimbursed situations. Under new section 292, liability for income under IPSA’s scheme. Again, that maintains the previous tax is avoided only if the House sits beyond 1 am. That tax treatment. is fine for London MPs like me. If I made a claim for a The right hon. Gentleman raised two issues—about hotel stay under the IPSA rules, the new section would late-night sittings and accommodation. He is right: exempt me from income tax on that payment. However, there is indeed a difference. The IPSA and tax treatment it seems a bit unfair to non-London MPs, in that the is different for sittings that end after 1 am and for IPSA scheme allows them to claim for the cost of an sittings that end between 11 pm and 1 am. For sittings overnight stay if the House sits after 11 pm, but the new that run after 11 o’clock, there is tax exemption for section gives them an income tax liability on that claim expenses incurred for overnight accommodation, because unless the House sits after 1 am. I wonder why the rules that is deemed by IPSA a necessary expense incurred in have been drawn up in that way. the MP role. A second area where I am puzzled relates to travel Non-London MPs who decide to take the London expenses for children. I have no children, so I hasten to allowance—the London expense regime—are able to say that this has nothing to do with my personal charge overnight accommodation if the House sits after arrangements. The IPSA scheme provides for travel and 11 pm, as the right hon. Gentleman pointed out. However, subsistence expenses in respect of travel for dependent that charge is not tax-exempt; it is deemed subject to children aged under 16, limited to 30 single journeys per normal tax treatment for any employee. A normal employee child between the Member’s London area residence and would not be able to claim a tax exemption if they chose the constituency residence in each year. The new section to stay in a hotel because they had been working late. 1185 Finance Bill15 JULY 2010 Finance Bill 1186

The rules for the House sitting past 1 o’clock are agreed sold to prevent the avoidance of stamp duty land tax. with IPSA as necessary for the fulfilment of the MP Will the Exchequer Secretary confirm what the coalition role, so are tax-exempt. Before that, although MPs from agreement meant? Are all those initiatives— outside the London area can get reimbursement for overnight costs, they are not tax-exempt. I hope that I The First Deputy Chairman: Order. I think that the have clarified the situation, even though some people right hon. Gentleman is going much wider than the might not agree that the tax treatment set out in the provision before us. Will he confine his remarks to what clause and schedule 4 is fair. is contained in clause 8? Children’s travel was not tax exempt under the previous scheme, and clause 7 and schedule 4 merely maintain Stephen Timms: Of course I will, Mr Evans. the same tax treatment of children. However, the right I accept that there will always be areas in which hon. Gentleman was right to point out that the tax there is legitimate uncertainty among business and exemption for spouses will continue, albeit with some their representatives about how the law applies. more restrictive conditions. Again, I hope that I have However, I am pleased that clause 8 and schedule 5 are clarified the position. being brought forward to block one more unwanted As IPSA continues to develop its expenses regime loophole. over the coming months and perhaps years, we will obviously have to keep an eye on any changes and 6pm ensure that we determine whether we need to reflect them in tax law. Mr Gauke: I thank the shadow Minister for his words Question put and agreed to. of support. It would be somewhat surprising if he did not support the measure, as I am sure that he would Clause 7 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. have introduced it had he been in our position. Schedule 4 agreed to. Clause 8 relates to corporation tax avoidance involving de-recognition. The corporation tax rules on financial Clause 8 instruments broadly follow the treatment of profits and losses recognised in accounts drawn up under generally accepted accounting practice. That applies to most financial AMOUNTS NOT FULLY RECOGNISED FOR ACCOUNTING PURPOSES instruments, including loans and derivatives. However, in certain cases where the terms of an asset and a Question proposed, That the clause stand part of liability are closely related, accounting practice may the Bill. mean that neither the income nor the expenses arising on them are included in the accounts. For example, a Stephen Timms: Clause 8 and schedule 5 amend the company may have issued preference shares on which corporation tax rules on loan relationships and derivative the dividends payable equal the interest received. As the contracts that apply to amounts not fully recognised for company is economically flat in such cases, accounting accounting purposes. This is a good example of the way practice allows it to de-recognise both the income and in which the obligations that the previous Government expenses. However, for tax purposes, that gives rise to a introduced in 2004 on the disclosure of tax avoidance mismatch. The income is taxable, while the dividends schemes are bearing fruit by revealing forms of avoidance are not deductible. that represent loopholes that need to be closed, which is what the clause does. The intention behind the clause Unfortunately, avoidance schemes have continually was announced by the previous Government at the time sought to exploit the practice of de-recognising income. of the March Budget. The provision is tightly targeted. In 2006, legislation was introduced to block such avoidance I am not aware of any adverse reaction, and I certainly by overriding the de-recognition for tax purposes. It support the clause, but will the Exchequer Secretary required that where certain conditions are met, taxable give us his assessment of how much tax avoidance will profits are to be computed as if there had been no be prevented by blocking the loophole? de-recognition in the accounts. It was necessary to amend the original legislation in 2007 and 2009 to I was pleased that the coalition agreement included block new schemes. Previous action has protected the commitment: something like between £100 million and £150 million. “We will make every effort to tackle tax avoidance”. To answer the shadow Minister’s question, it is anticipated Clauses 8 and 9 are the first concrete signs of that that the measures in the Bill will protect £150 million commitment being delivered. However, will Exchequer per annum. Secretary tell us a little more about how those efforts It is worth making the point that in addition to will be pursued and what is meant in the coalition blocking the latest schemes, the Government intend to agreement by the commitment to remove the opportunity for new abuse. We will amend “detailed development of Liberal Democrat proposals”? the anti-avoidance rule in question so that it works in a If I understand correctly, Liberal Democrat proposals more wide-ranging manner. Such a rule will make it in this area include: changing the taxation of benefits in unnecessary repeatedly to block similar versions of kind; increasing the proportion of HMRC time spent what is essentially the same scheme, and will allow us to on income tax evasion; a new general anti-avoidance address the matter more completely. HMRC will issue a provision for corporation tax, with companies paying a technical note on the subject shortly, with a view to us commercial rate for HMRC pre-clearance—I imagine making the amendments in the Finance Bill 2011. Any that that is being subsumed in the wider discussion such changes would be effective from a date to be about a general anti-avoidance rule—and legislating to announced in the autumn, following consultation on establish the beneficial ownership of property that is the details of the proposals. 1187 15 JULY 2010 Business without Debate 1188

[Mr Gauke] BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (20 JULY) Ordered, I note your earlier guidance, Mr Evans, and I will not That, at the sitting on Tuesday 20 July, notwithstanding Standing go into detail on the points that the shadow Minister Order No. 14 (Arrangement of public business), the backbench made, but we continue to look at the issue, and the business determined by the Backbench Business Committee may Government take anti-avoidance measures very seriously. be entered upon at any hour, may then be proceeded with, though Question put and agreed to. opposed, for three hours, and shall then lapse if not previously disposed of; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) Clause 8 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. shall not apply.—(Mr Newmark.) Schedule 5 agreed to. Clauses 9 to 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill. SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE (27 JULY) The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair. Motion made, Bill reported, without amendment. That, on Tuesday 27 July, Bill to be read the Third time tomorrow. (1) the House shall meet at 10.30 am; (2) references to specific times in the Standing Orders of this Business without Debate House shall apply as if that day were a Thursday; (3) the sitting in Westminster Hall shall begin at 12.30 pm and continue until 5.00pm; and ADJOURNMENT (SUMMER) (4) the Speaker shall not adjourn the House until any message from the Lords has been received, any Committee to draw up Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Reasons which has been appointed at that sitting has reported, Order No. 25) and he has notified the Royal Assent to Acts agreed upon by both That this House, at its rising on Tuesday 27 July 2010, do Houses.—(Mr Newmark) adjourn till Monday 6 September 2010.—(Mr Newmark.) Question agreed to. Hon. Members: Object. DELEGATED LEGISLATION ADJOURNMENT (CONFERENCE RECESS) Motion made, Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing That the Motion in the name of Sir George Young relating to Order No. 25) the Electoral Commission shall be treated as if it related to an instrument subject to the provisions of Standing Order No. 118 That this House, at its rising on Thursday 16 September 2010, (Delegated Legislation Committees) in respect of which notice of do adjourn till Monday 11 October 2010.—(Mr Newmark.) a motion has been given that the instrument be approved.— Question agreed to. (Mr Newmark.)

Hon. Members: Object. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (ACADEMIES BILL [LORDS]) BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (FINANCE BILL) Ordered, Resolved, That, in respect of the Academies Bill [Lords], notices of That, notwithstanding the practice of the House as to the Amendments, new Clauses and new Schedules to be moved in intervals between stages of Bills brought in upon Ways and Committee may be accepted by the Clerks at the Table before the Means Resolutions, more than one stage of the Finance Bill may Bill has been read a second time.—(Mr Newmark.) be taken at any sitting of the House.—(Mr Newmark.) 1189 15 JULY 2010 Decent Homes (Hillingdon) 1190

Decent Homes (Hillingdon) fact, I have set up many of them—and on the Avondale estate the residents association is chaired by my constituent, Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House Mr Bernard Fagan. When the local decent homes do now adjourn.—(Mr Newmark.) programme commenced in 2005, I kept in close touch with local residents, through the association, to monitor 6.5 pm its implementation. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): In I intervened at an early stage in 2005 because tenants this Chamber we debate the main issues facing our contacted me and the local councillor Lynne Allen. country and the world, and we pass laws that affect the They were fearful that the asbestos removal from individual lives of millions, but as Members we also retain apartments was taking place without the families being the centuries-old right and tradition, stemming from decanted from the properties by Hillingdon Homes, the earliest days of Parliament, to be able to raise the and there were concerns that there were not the appropriate grievance of an individual constituent when all other protections for the tenants and indeed the workers routes appear to have been exhausted and the constituent involved in removing the asbestos. As a result of those considers that justice has not been done. Often the concerns, the local councillor and I met the tenants, airing of an individual case can throw light on a more visited the estate and contacted Hillingdon Homes and general malaise that needs to be addressed, so in that the council, and gained assurances that proper procedures tradition I wish to raise today the case of one of my were being, and would be, followed. constituents, Mr Bernard Fagan, and the performance of Hillingdon council, its arm’s length housing management Later, in December 2005, Mr Fagan contacted me company, Hillingdon Homes, and its contractors and again to seek an urgent meeting to discuss the problems sub-contractors in the delivery of the previous Government’s he was experiencing with regard to the renovation of his decent homes programme. apartment, under the Hillingdon Homes decent homes programme. When we met in early January 2006, Mr Fagan The decent homes programme was a well intentioned took me through the catalogue of errors, poor attempt to bring all council accommodation up to a workmanship, delays and failures of performance that decent standard and modernise the housing stock by he had experienced at the hands of the contractors and installing new kitchens, toilets, bathrooms, doors and subcontractors whom Hillingdon Homes had employed windows and making other basic improvements. The to install a new kitchen and bathroom in his flat. At that programme was a welcome and desperately needed early meeting, he pointed out 19 specific examples of fillip for council tenants after years of neglect and lack poor workmanship that he had identified. of investment by past Governments. The overall cost of the programme was originally estimated to be £20 billion. I shall quote from Mr Fagan’s first detailed letter to Unfortunately, because of a lack of confidence in me, in January 2005, that described his experience of local councils to deliver a programme of that scale the Hillingdon Homes decent homes programme: successfully, the previous Government attached a number “On 11th May, Bogdan Building Services, under the supervision of conditions to the investment programme. If a local of Apollo London Ltd”— council wanted to receive a share of the capital investment, the contractors and subcontractors appointed by Hillingdon it was required either to transfer its stock to a housing Homes to undertake the decent homes programme on association or other landlord, or to establish an arm’s his estate— length management organisation, or ALMO, and transfer its housing stock to that new body. The ALMO would “carried out the gutting out phase of my flat refurbishment. They removed a perfectly functional hood extractor fan and its outlet, undertake the day-to-day management of tenants’ homes in spite of a signed and endorsed drawing clearly stating that this and the area’s decent homes programme. appliance should be refitted. I believe that this was done because The local council and its tenants had to agree to the the operatives involved had difficulties with interpreting the drawings stock being transferred to the ALMO, and refusal to and with written and oral instructions in the English language…On transfer would result, in effect, in their losing access to 12th May, an operative posing as a plumber began working in my home. He installed a toilet 10 mm above the floor, falling short of the decent homes investment programme for their area. entering its outlet square and risking leakage…On 13th May, In my constituency, despite many anxieties, uncertainties electricians began work on my kitchen and I was left without and worries, tenants were forced over a barrel to agree power in this room for 30 days…On 16th and 17th May, an inept to the transfer; otherwise they would have largely had to operative masquerading as a carpenter began work on my flat. forgo the opportunity to receive new kitchens, bathrooms The standard he achieved over these two days was appallingly bad and other improvements to their homes. and he had to be removed from my flat.” Despite some limited acknowledgement of the need I should say at this point that Mr Fagan is a time-served for greater tenant involvement in the management of retired carpenter; after years of extensive experience as their homes, the setting up of the ALMO largely resulted a professional craftsman, he knows a professional job in a transfer of staff from the council’s existing housing when he sees one. On one occasion, he felt so sorry for department, the production of a new logo, a wage one of the Bogdan operatives that he had to show him increase for the senior officers of the new body and, I how a particular tool operated so that the work could have to say, little else to distinguish the operation of the be completed. ALMO from that of the council’s housing department. I return to Mr Fagan’s diary of events: In my constituency, the new ALMO, Hillingdon Homes, was allocated about £60 million to undertake the local “On 19th May, my new kitchen was fitted. The worktop that the kitchen fitter attached to the base units was butchered with a decent homes programme, and selected one of my local jig saw, short of the required length, with copious amounts of tower block estates, on Avondale drive in Hayes, for sealant used to disguise the mistake…On 26th May, a tiler achieved inclusion in the programme. I have worked closely with a standard close to acceptable in my kitchen, but the standard in local residents and tenants associations in my town—in my bathroom falls short of what one might reasonably expect.” 1191 Decent Homes (Hillingdon)15 JULY 2010 Decent Homes (Hillingdon) 1192

[John McDonnell] subcontracted much of the work to Bogdan Ltd. In one of its publications, Hillingdon Homes explains that Overall, the work took nine weeks, more than twice Bogdan Ltd was set up by a Mr Bogdan Hrab, a the time mentioned in the information pack sent to carpenter who had worked on school projects for Apollo tenants in preparation for the work by Hillingdon Homes. in Hillingdon. He recruited what is described as During this period, on 15 May there was a fire in “a core of Romanian tradesmen”, Mr Fagan’s flat that had resulted from the cooking chosen for their appliance that he had been supplied as a temporary replacement for his cooker while the work was carried “skills and competency, which he personally monitors.” out. The cooking appliance supplied was not the appliance Hillingdon Homes argues that the appointment of this promised by Hillingdon Homes, but a cheaper version. company was Mr Fagan suffered burns and some of his furniture was “not price-driven but on a tried and tested basis.” damaged. Eventually, he received some form of The ALMO also implied in one of its publications that compensation. the demand for labour for major projects in my area, From May until November of that year, Mr Fagan such as terminal 5 at Heathrow, meant that there was a was in regular contact with Hillingdon Homes, shortage of skilled workers, and Bogdan and its Romanian seeking remedial action to tackle a litany of problems work force met this need. in his flat resulting from the poor workmanship. He The poor workmanship of the operatives working on was met by what he described to me as bureaucratic the Avondale estate led Mr Fagan to question whether obfuscation, delays, procrastination, incompetence and these Bogdan employees were indeed the qualified mismanagement—those are just the repeatable expressions tradesmen they purported to be. Although Hillingdon that Mr Fagan has for his treatment at the hands of Homes sought to assure me that Apollo vetted its Hillingdon Homes. sub-contractors, to date no satisfactory evidence has It took me several letters over a period of months to been produced by Hillingdon Homes or Bogdan Ltd to get any practical response from Hillingdon Homes. confirm the qualifications of the Bogdan staff. In fact, When the ALMO responded with offers to undertake Hillingdon Homes has now denied that it is its responsibility remedial work, Mr Fagan had had enough and refused to ensure that the workers are qualified, and Apollo has to allow the same unskilled and untrained operatives refused to release details of the tradesmen’s individual back into his home. He insisted on proper repairs to qualifications. address the mistakes made and tried to insist on at least some direct labour operatives to do the work that was Because at that time Romania had not acceded to the needed. Eventually, some remedial work was undertaken, European Union, the visa requirements for entry into but long delayed and after a lengthy struggle with the UK for employment meant that workers recruited Hillingdon Homes, and on two occasions with action would have to demonstrate their qualifications. In February only agreed on the steps of the court as Mr Fagan 2007, I wrote to the Home Secretary to clarify the visa resorted to legal action. arrangements and to seek an inquiry into the practices of Apollo and Bogdan Ltd. My letter was passed to the As I said, Mr Fagan is an active member of Avondale Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The residents association, and currently its chair, so he was response I received from the Minister of State confirmed concerned to discover whether other tenants had the following: experienced similar problems. I therefore wrote to “Although Romania joined the EU on 1st January 2007, its Hillingdon Homes to ask whether any other tenants nationals still need permission to take employment here. Authorisation had expressed concerns about the work undertaken in would only be given if they met the skills and other criteria of the their apartments. I was informed by the surveying manager work permit scheme and applications require suitable evidence of Hillingdon Homes—I have never met a surveying that the worker is suitably qualified. I understand that a work manager before, but we now have one—that the contractor, permit application has not been received from Bogdan Building Apollo, had undertaken a survey that recorded a Services. If a company employs a Romanian national without the 92% satisfaction rate among all tenants who had responded appropriate authorisation, they and the worker may be committing to the company’s survey from the 101 properties completed a criminal offence.” in the programme to date. However, it reported only a Different rules apply for workers who are self-employed, 42% satisfaction rate from the Avondale estate, with but it is difficult to see how the operatives employed by 38% dissatisfied. Bogdan or Apollo could in any way be classified as At meetings with Hillingdon Homes and tenants, I self-employed. The Minister advised me that the letter urged the ALMO to undertake an independent survey. had been referred to the immigration service’s enforcement It refused, and instead sent round one of its own project unit to consider what action was to be taken. That was team to visit the tenants—one of the very people who 2007, and I have heard nothing since. had been complained about. In the absence of an Interestingly, when it was asked whether there was a independent survey, I held a meeting with the tenants shortage in my area of the skilled contractors needed and conducted a written survey of my own, which for such a contract, the Department for Work and reported overwhelming dissatisfaction with the improvement Pensions confirmed that on the contrary, there were programme. local building workers with the requisite skills looking Let me outline the basic issues of concern with regard for work in the area. to our experience of the decent homes programme in Questions were asked about the cost and value for Hillingdon. The first major concern is the poor quality money of the refurbishment work undertaken. The of the work undertaken, as evidenced by the experience initial estimate of the unit cost for the refurbishment of of Mr Fagan and his neighbours. Work on the programme the kitchens and bathrooms was put at £10,000 by was contracted to Apollo London Ltd, which in turn Hillingdon Homes. Mr Fagan and his fellow tenants 1193 Decent Homes (Hillingdon)15 JULY 2010 Decent Homes (Hillingdon) 1194 challenged that figure and undertook a costing of the Homes, the council and, I have to say, Ministers themselves. work themselves, collecting samples of materials and Despite getting local remedies to individual problems sample costs for the workers’ time. They came out with for tenants, I remain deeply concerned by how the a calculation significantly less than the official Hillingdon programme was implemented in my area. I repeat my Homes estimates. At a later date, Hillingdon Homes call for an independent investigation into the way in reduced its costing from the original £10,000 to £7,900 per which Hillingdon Homes and the council undertook it. unit, but even at that level the tenants have questioned The Hillingdon ALMO is to be scrapped and housing the rate of profit obtained by the contractor and the management taken back into the council in the autumn. value for money achieved by the ALMO itself. I welcome that, but it should not be used to cover up the It is worth noting at this stage that Apollo was one of problems caused by the mismanagement of the decent the companies that the Office of Fair Trading found to homes programme. There needs to be a thorough and be guilty of price fixing in their dealings on local detailed independent investigation of Hillingdon Homes, council contracts. It was forced to repay more than and the abolition of the ALMO should not be used as £2 million by way of fines only 18 months ago, one of an excuse for not holding that investigation. the highest amounts of any company involved in the My local experience naturally led me to wonder whether scam. Also, the Information Commissioner discovered it had been replicated elsewhere. I know that the decent that it had been involved in the blacklisting of trade homes programme nationally has been criticised for union members, which may relate to the low rates of overspends and delays, with more than 300,000 properties pay given to some of the operatives on the site in still not refurbished. I am aware of the National Audit question. Office January report, which states that it will be another Questions have also been asked about the insurance eight years before the work is undertaken. There are arrangements on the Hillingdon Homes programme criticisms in the report of the absence of monitoring after individual claims were pursued against Apollo, and weaknesses in the information systems, with one insurance assessor suspiciously withdrawing “which has reduced the Department’s assurance that value for from claim negotiations and different dates being attached money was being achieved and this in itself constitutes a risk to to the same insurance documents. value for money, because the Department cannot establish definitively Throughout the implementation of the decent homes whether the Programme has delivered the required improvements programme, Mr Fagan and other tenants have expressed at a cost that was considered reasonable.” strong concerns about the lack of accountability and There is a need for a further review of the programme. responsiveness of Hillingdon Homes. Tenants have cited I want the work to be completed to improve people’s examples of the failure to undertake adequate and homes, but at a time of limited resources, it behoves us timely inspections of work, the reliance on the word of to ensure that whatever resources are available are wisely the contractor rather than listening to the tenants spent and meet the needs of the tenants. That is why I themselves, the delays in responding to tenants’ concerns, feel that in my constituency there is a continuing need complaints often being ignored, the patronising manner to review the decent homes programme and its in which the tenants have been treated and the fact that implementation, and to ensure that the situation I have they have been provided with inaccurate and obscure described is never repeated. information. All that has increased the level of frustration, because, to quote Mr Fagan again: 6.26 pm “Had this programme been implemented properly it would have been socially beneficial but unfortunately its management The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for and execution have not lived up to its noble aspirations.” Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): I With regard to the Romanian workers themselves, congratulate the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington Mr Fagan wanted me to make it explicitly clear to the (John McDonnell) on introducing the debate and bringing House that he is himself an Irish person who came here the subject to the House. He has a long record of to seek work, so this is not an attack on the workers diligent and assiduous research and work on behalf of themselves but an attack on the company that may have his constituents, and today’s debate is a good example brought them here without the appropriate skills and of that. qualifications and put them in an impossible position to I agree that it is important that we get efficient and respond to the needs and demands of the contract. He effective housing services, that we do not waste public believes that they may well have been exploited in the money and that the people we serve actually get a process. service and are not treated merely as targets to fulfil. As Over the past three years I have raised my concerns well as ensuring that the workmanship is right, we must about the decent homes programme in Hillingdon in have the right standards of integrity, prudence and direct correspondence with Secretaries of State and legality. The hon. Gentleman has raised some serious Ministers in the Department for Communities and Local concerns about whether that is the case for Hillingdon Government. Apart from parliamentary questions, my Homes. He has also made a stout defence of his constituent, last speech on the matter in this Chamber was in Mr Fagan, and the residents on the Avondale estate. November 2007. I said then that there was a need for an The hon. Gentleman painted a nightmare picture, investigation of the council’s performance on this matter, which clearly needs to be considered carefully. He has and that we knew of a number of examples of poor outlined some concerns, which I will tackle shortly. workmanship. I said that I knew of cases in which First, let me provide some context. In Hillingdon, the tenants had been injured as a result of the work, even council and its tenants chose to set up an ALMO. I following the resources that had been ploughed into the understand his point that perhaps they had a financial programme. pistol pointed at their heads by the previous Government I feel that I have done my duty in raising this matter, through the suggestion that an ALMO was the way of but there has been a lack of response from Hillingdon accessing extra funding to invest in their homes. Indeed, 1195 Decent Homes (Hillingdon)15 JULY 2010 Decent Homes (Hillingdon) 1196

[Andrew Stunell] The hon. Gentleman also reported that he debated the matter in the House back in 2007, when he asked my Hillingdon Homes invested £59 million between 2003 predecessors to carry out an investigation. I am sure he and 2008 and reduced the number of non-decent homes will understand that it is more his job than mine to from more than 3,000 to just 23. I understand that defend the record of the outgoing Administration, and statistics show that current non-decency is limited to I am not going to take a rap for their performance, but I only 48 homes out of the borough’s stock. I hope that would welcome the opportunity to meet him with my the hon. Gentleman agrees that that is a good record. officials to discuss some of his concerns. He feels that his constituents have been let down by Hillingdon Homes, As the hon. Gentleman also reported, earlier this the council and Ministers, but I should make it clear year, after a tenant consultation, Hillingdon council that up to now, I have not let him down, and I will see decided to take management of the homes back from what we can do in future. the ALMO and to disband it, which is due to happen at the end of the year. The council claims that it will save The hon. Gentleman asked a broader question about £300,000 a year, which will be reinvested in services to whether the problem he described is universal and whether tenants. Perhaps, therefore, the story will have a happy it applies in many other areas. That is not our experience ending. in the borough of Stockport, which also has an ALMO. He is right to ask that question and to draw attention to Let me deal with the hon. Gentleman’s points and the NAO report on the problems. questions. He made some important points about the I conclude by saying to the hon. Gentleman and the poor workmanship, but I am sure that he accepts that House that the Department and this Government are that matter should be pursued elsewhere. I am sure that very strongly committed to ensuring that we get value he will be diligent in doing that. He has brought to the for money. We all know that resources will be even House’s attention what he perceives to be irregularities tighter in future, and that it is estimated that £3.2 billion about visa applications, or possibly the failure to make will have to be spent to get the remaining housing stock visa applications when they should have been made. He to a decent homes standard. There are many other calls reminded us that the then Secretary of State was contacted on Government money, so we support anything that and that a letter was referred to the immigration will weed out inefficiency or anything worse than enforcement unit. Of course, that is not my ministerial inefficiency, which is what he hinted at. I look forward responsibility, but I will ensure that his words are drawn to the opportunity of discussing with him how we to the attention of officials and the Department concerned. achieve that in Hillingdon. If there are broader lessons The hon. Gentleman raised concerns about the cost to learn, I am sure that my Department and the Housing and value for money of the installation. He said that the Minister will be very willing to do so. initial price quoted was £10,000 that not until tenants There seems to a rule that we speak right up to the started to get stroppy did a new figure of £7,900 emerge, bell, but I think I have covered the main points and I and that even now, there is a belief that that figure may hope that that is satisfactory to the hon. Gentleman. I be seriously over the top. He also drew attention to the look forward to taking the matter forward in due course. record in the courts of Apollo London Ltd on price Question put and agreed to. fixing. Those matters should concern the House. We need to be satisfied that public money has been properly 6.33 pm spent and that a good service has been given. House adjourned. 323WH 15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 324WH

Costs,” which makes a broad range of significant and Westminster Hall positive recommendations for reducing high costs in the civil justice system. We are urgently assessing Sir Rupert’s Thursday 15 July 2010 main proposals on the reform of conditional fee agreements and how they could be taken forward. Sir Rupert’s recommendations apply to all categories [MR JOE BENTON in the Chair] of case where CFAs are used, and that includes defamation cases. I am aware of the significant concerns in some Defamation Law quarters about the level of costs in defamation cases, [Relevant documents: Second Report from the Culture, but it is important that any changes in defamation are Media and Sport Committee, Session 2009-10, HC 362-I, considered alongside those in other areas of civil litigation and the Government response, Cm 7851.] where high costs are a concern. We are committed to addressing those issues in the round and to dealing with Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the problems created by high costs while also ensuring be now adjourned.—(Jonathan Djanogly .) that there is appropriate access to justice for claimants. 2.30 pm The previous Government attempted a rushed and rather limited reform to limit costs in defamation cases The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice only. As hon. Members may know, that measure was (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): I am delighted to open today’s not recommended to the House by the Committee that debate on an issue that the Government regard as being considered it on 30 March. We must tread carefully. We of great importance to our country. As the coalition will consider all the options for addressing high costs, agreement made clear, we are firmly committed to including those proposed by the previous Administration reviewing the law on defamation to protect free speech. and, as I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for That commitment was reflected in the announcement Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) will be pleased to know, by made last week by my noble Friend Lord McNally on the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport in behalf of the Government that we will be publishing a its recent report, “Press Standards, Privacy and Libel.” draft defamation Bill for consultation and pre-legislative We will consider those proposals alongside Lord Justice scrutiny in the first session of this Parliament, with a Jackson’s recommendations in determining the next view to introducing a substantive Bill as soon after that steps. We hope to announce the way forward as soon as as parliamentary time allows. possible. That decision stems from our recognition of the It is not possible for me to indicate today exactly concerns raised over recent months about the detrimental what provisions may be included in the Government’s effects that the current law may be having on freedom of draft Bill on defamation. However, a number of areas expression, particularly in relation to academic and have already been the subject of much discussion and scientific debate, the work of non-governmental debate, and I can confirm that we will be giving further organisations, investigative journalism and the extent to consideration to them with a view to including provisions which this jurisdiction has become a magnet for libel in the draft Bill. In particular, we recognise the strength claimants. In reviewing the law, we wish to focus on of the calls that have been made for a statutory defence ensuring that freedom of speech and academic debate relating to the public interest and responsible journalism. are protected and that a fair balance is struck between As hon. Members will be aware, a common law defence freedom of expression and the protection of reputation. has been developed by the courts in recent years—initially We want to ensure that the right balance is achieved, so in the case of Reynolds v. Times Newspapers Ltd and that people who have been defamed are able to take Others, which offers a defence that may be relied on action to protect their reputation where appropriate. even where the defendant cannot prove the truth of However, that should be done in such a way that free what has been published, provided he or she acted speech is not unjustifiably impeded. responsibly in all the circumstances. That will help to ensure that responsible journalism and academic and scientific debate are able to flourish, However, concerns have been expressed by non- and that investigative journalism and the valuable work governmental organisations, the scientific community of non-governmental organisations are not unjustifiably and others that there is a lack of certainty over how the hampered by actual or threatened libel proceedings. Reynolds defence applies outside the context of mainstream Ensuring that the right balance is struck is a difficult journalism, and that that has a somewhat chilling effect and sensitive exercise. It raises very complex issues, on on freedom of expression and investigative reporting. which a wide range of differing views are likely to be This is a complex area of the law, and we want to give held. In recognition of that, any proposals for reform further consideration to whether and how a statutory will need to be the subject of extensive and thorough defence can be framed in a way that is beneficial and consultation. With that in mind, publication of a draft appropriate for a range of different contexts. Bill for pre-legislative scrutiny represents the most effective We also recognise the criticism that English defamation approach to achieving fully considered legislative proposals law has received as a result of the perception that libel that focus on core issues of concern where legislation tourists are issuing proceedings in London, rather than can make a real difference. in other jurisdictions with which their claim may have a Alongside our considerations on the substantive law, significantly greater link. Differing views have been we are also determined to ensure that costs in all civil expressed about the extent of problems in that area, and proceedings, including defamation, are proportionate. whether the threat of libel proceedings by wealthy foreigners The Government are very grateful to Lord Justice Jackson and public figures is used to stifle investigative journalism, for his comprehensive report, “Review of Civil Litigation regardless of whether actual cases are ultimately brought. 325WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 326WH

[Mr Jonathan Djanogly] 2.40 pm

A number of proposals have been made on how that Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): I issue can be tackled, and we will be examining those congratulate the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr carefully. We want to make sure that the concerns raised Whittingdale) on his re-election as Chair of the Culture, in that area are addressed in an effective and proportionate Media and Sport Committee, from a shortlist of one. I way. thank my Labour colleagues for re-electing me, in a rather wider exercise of democracy, to the Committee. I We are also aware of the concerns that have been also thank Mr Speaker for agreeing to the debate. He expressed in the media and elsewhere about the difficulties was forthright in his defence of free speech during the of the so-called multiple publication rule, whereby each Trafigura affair last autumn, in which I played a walk-on publication of defamatory material gives rise to a separate part. If I may indulge in a plug, Mr Benton, only last cause of action subject to its own limitation period, Sunday I gave a talk with David Leigh of The Guardian which causes problems in relation to online material. on Trafigura and the wider issues of libel and media law The effect of the multiple publication rule is that publishers reform at the excellent centre of investigative journalism are potentially liable for any defamatory material published at City university London. by them and accessed online. The rules applies however The debate is certainly timely, allowing us to discuss long after the initial publication the material is accessed, for the first time the Committee’s report on press standards, and whether or not proceedings have already been privacy and libel, which the general election interrupted. brought in relation to the initial publication. We will be It also keeps up momentum for reform in the House of considering how best we can frame a single publication Commons, following the excellent debate last Friday on rule to remove the threat of open-ended liability that Lord Lester’s private Member’s Bill in the other place—the currently exists. House of Lords, to adopt modern terminology in libel. I shall refer to that at greater length in a moment. In addition to the areas I have just mentioned, the private Member’s Bill introduced in another place by We published our report on 24 February. It was a Lord Lester of Herne Hill contains provisions on a marathon effort, as I am sure the Chair of the Committee substantial number of other issues. In particular, Lord agrees, having lasted from autumn 2008. That hints at Lester’s Defamation Bill takes in provisions on renaming the complexities and the sheer range of issues involved and codifying the existing defences of justification and in reforming that area of law. I was certainly not the fair comment; the basis on which an action for defamation only member of the Committee who was glad to clear can be brought; the ability of corporations to bring the decks for the general election, which was looming defamation actions; trial by jury; defamation in the over us. context of internet publication; and issues relating to There was much unfinished business in the field as absolute and qualified privilege, including parliamentary the general election became all-consuming, such as proceedings. taking forward in law Sir Rupert Jackson’s wide-ranging Those important issues merit further consideration report on civil litigation costs, to which the Minister in the context of the Government’s review of the law. referred, which was published in January. There was However, it is important to ensure that the views of a also the review by the former Justice Secretary, my right range of interested parties are taken into account before hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), on deciding whether it is appropriate to include such provisions libel and the internet. He also produced proposals for in the Government’s draft Bill. We therefore intend reform of conditional fee agreements, about which I initially to conduct informal discussions over the summer shall say more later. We also followed up on the conclusions with interested parties to ensure that we can reach a of the report from the Ministry of Justice’s libel working fully informed assessment of the merits of reform in group, which was published at the end of March, just as those areas, and on any other issues that may be of we were about to go to the polls. The previous Government’s concern. In the light of those discussions, we hope that response to that included a commitment to a draft libel it will then be possible to move towards publication of a reform Act, and the House should give a strong vote of draft Bill in the new year. thanks to my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn for all his work and effort in that area. I was glad that As part of that process, the views of those within that work was acknowledged by Lord McNally, the new Parliament are obviously of considerable importance. Minister, in last Friday’s debate. Lord Lester’s Bill has provided an important, timely I am glad that the coalition agreement included the and well reasoned contribution to the process, although following single-line commitment: the Government’s draft Bill may, of course, not necessarily “We will review our libel law to protect freedom of speech.” reflect all the issues he has raised, or indeed be restricted to them. The views of those within Parliament are However, there is always a danger after an election, with obviously of considerable importance to us in reviewing so many competing interests, that action might be stillborn, the law. despite the fine words. The danger of a lack of progress was highlighted before the election by the fate of the The Second Reading of Lord Lester’s Bill last week statutory instrument that was intended to address the provided an opportunity for those in another place to matter of costs in conditional fee agreements. It was make their views known, and an extremely helpful and mauled in Committee by Members from all parties. It is wide-ranging debate took place. I hope that the not necessary to dwell on the ins and outs of that, as it is Government’s decision to secure today’s debate will better in the cause of reform to make as many friends provide an opportunity for hon. Members to express and as few enemies as possible. The proposal was to their views on those important matters, so that we can limit success fees in conditional fee agreements in consider them when deciding how best to move forward. defamation cases. That was certainly a blunt instrument. 327WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 328WH

In our report, we said that recoverability from the law with the law dealing with publication in print and defendant should be limited, meaning that lawyers and giving more certainty to people who maintain online clients could haggle. The instrument that came forward, archives and databases. Libel tourism is another area on which would have limited that across the board, was which there is increasing consensus, and that is increasingly always open to the attack that it would give renewed connected to the law on the internet. The consensus carte blanche to unscrupulous tabloids to print yet from all those bodies is that we should tighten the legal again what they liked and that it would limit access for procedure rules and throw out the abuse of our courts ordinary people without the means to try to salvage and laws. their reputations. The role of parliamentary privilege in protecting free It was made clear before the election that that instrument speech is also an area of consensus. That was highlighted was intended to be an interim measure that could be in the Trafigura affair, and not for the first time, but achieved quickly without primary legislation, and in nothing was done on each occasion. Lord Lester’s Bill anticipation of wider reform of libel law and costs addresses that simply and agrees with the Select Committee following the Jackson review. While the newspapers that we need a modern statute. We also look forward to drowned their sorrows after the statutory instrument the conclusions of the review of practices on super- went down, I suspect that the biggest bar bills were run injunctions being carried out by the courts. up by the likes of Carter-Ruck and Partners and the Where there is disagreement, it seems to centre, so-called Lawyers for Media Standards—I suspect that refreshingly, on not rushing to judgment and instead it was a good day for those other well known firms: consulting, as our report recommended, so that changes Krug, Bollinger and Dom Pérignon. in the law do not have harmful, unintended or unforeseen At the weekend, those of us at the City university consequences. I will mention a few major examples. We London summer school wanted to raise a glass to Lord should consider statutory backing for the public interest Lester for keeping up the pressure for reform through defence to protect decent investigative journalism while his excellent private Member’s Bill, and to all the maintaining the protection needed for individuals whose organisations involved in crafting and supporting the reputations are wrongly and irresponsibly traduced. Bill, including Index on Censorship, English PEN, Sense The Committee was inclined first to put into statute a About Science and The Guardian, the BBC and The widened definition for court decisions on responsible Times from the media community. We also wanted to journalism—the so-called Reynolds defence. I took the raise a glass to Lord McNally, who confirmed on Friday precaution of consulting former newspaper colleagues that the Government would pick up the ball left by my who are at the coal face of investigative journalism, and right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn and produce they advised taking care and consulting. That was our a draft Bill for consultation. Furthermore, he set out a recommendation. That caution on getting the change timetable: a draft bill will be published early next year right was reflected in the debate on clause 1 of Lord for pre-legislative scrutiny; and hopefully a substantive Lester’s Bill last Friday. bill will be included in the Queen’s Speech setting out However, there is an urgent need to protect legitimate the 2011-12 legislative programme. That is the yardstick scientific and medical inquiry and honest opinion and for reform that has been clearly set out, and by which comment. It was good to see the Court of Appeal in the progress will be measured. It is little wonder that Lord Simon Singh case recently decide that libel courts are Lester’s reaction on Friday was so measured: not the forum in which to settle issues of scientific or “when I hear my noble friend...speak as I did now, I wonder medical proof or controversy. whether I am alive at all or whether I am in heaven.”—[Official The other major area on which we urged wide Report, House of Lords, 9 July 2010; Vol. 720, c. 483.] consultation was that of corporations and defamation. I first met Lord McNally shortly after my election in There was a concern that deep-pocketed litigants could 2001 when we sat together on the Joint Committee on afford to mount libel cases—it is of little consequence the Draft Communications Bill, the so-called Puttnam to major corporations that the costs could run into Committee. I was aware of his good work on the millions. In part, the actions were designed to chill Labour Benches in Harold Wilson’s day, before wrangles investigative journalism and take good journalists out with the left in our party led him to his present berth. of the game—it takes so much time and effort to He is a sound man and we look forward to working counter libel actions. In our report, we highlighted what with him on reform. We look forward to the Minister I describe as the most flagrant abuse of libel laws in today confirming the Government’s intentions and perhaps recent years in this country: the case that Tesco brought giving more detail on what is proposed. against The Guardian. The substance of The Guardian’s I will not discuss all the complexities and controversies allegation about tax avoidance was true, but the newspaper involved in defamation reform today, but I will single made mistakes along the way and, even though it was out a few areas. The devil will, of course, be in the later proved that Tesco was avoiding the tax in question, detail. Despite the forces of reaction gathering to oppose The Guardian felt compelled to settle out of court reform—it reminds me of a scene from “The Lord of simply because the costs were mounting inexorably. the Rings”in which Sauron summons his “Carter-U’Ruck- In his Bill, Lord Lester does not propose any reversal hai” and the Orcs, those “Lawyers for Mordor of the burden of proof for corporations, but requires Standards”—a great deal of consensus has built up on them simply to demonstrate likely financial loss, which the way forward in several areas, which is encouraging. they do not have to do now. I, and I think many people For example, with regard to libel and the internet, the who were in the debate in the House of Lords, do not previous Government, the Select Committee, the Ministry’s believe that that goes far enough. Determining what libel working group and Lord Lester’s Bill have all constitutes likely financial loss might, in itself, be a agreed that the measure should relate to single publication, recipe for more costs. For example, should that include limited to a year after appearance, aligning the online shareholders? In the Select Committee report, we made 329WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 330WH

[Paul Farrelly] from the High Court, Alasdair Pepper of Carter-Ruck, Andrew Caldecott QC, and Desmond Browne. If they recommendations, and urged the Government to consult had billed us at their normal rates, the House of Commons widely and consider the experience of other countries, would probably have been bankrupted. They gave advice such as Australia, where the law in this respect has been as part of a pro bono publico exercise, which was reformed in recent years. greatly appreciated. The big elephant in the room, which Lord Lester’s Bill does not address, is cost. Cost is the overriding Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Members issue. Many of the problems with our libel laws would of Parliament who do not have the time to sit on a not be so pressing if it were not for the cost. We are Select Committee or who are not appointed to one owe aware that the Government are considering taking forward a debt of gratitude to those who do serve on one. As a the Jackson review, but that might take years. We need Member of Parliament who is not on a Select Committee, some indication from the Government as to when the I should like to say that many of us have really valued cost issues will be addressed. They are deliberately not the very detailed, technical and legalistic work that has addressed in Lord Lester’s Bill, but they are the major been done by this Select Committee. Does the hon. issue for responsible investigative journalism in this Gentleman agree that that makes it all the more important country. My right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn that the Minister, in his response, should recognise that tried unsuccessfully to achieve progress in the previous these are not just the recommendations of this particular parliamentary session. It is imperative that we get some Committee as a result of the work done by people such progress now. as my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly) and others, but that this is the Select 2.53 pm Committee speaking on behalf of the whole of Parliament? That is why it is important that the Government respond Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): It is a pleasure to the individual detailed recommendations. to follow my Select Committee colleague, the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly), who played a very substantial role in the Committee’s inquiry, Mr Whittingdale: I entirely endorse the hon. Lady’s both because of his background as an investigative comments. That is exactly the value of Select Committees, journalist and as a strong proponent of the reform of and I am pleased to say that they are becoming more libel law. widely recognised. When we set off, we did not anticipate that the inquiry would be quite as long and detailed as it I am extremely pleased to have this opportunity to was. It was, however, one of the most fascinating and debate the Select Committee report. It occupied more satisfying inquiries in which I have participated. At the than a year of our time, and the coming of the general same time as we were having the debate in the House, election prevented it from getting the debate that I felt it there was a substantial debate and a growing clamour merited. At the start, it was not the Select Committee’s outside the House. I should pay tribute, as my colleague intention particularly to focus on libel law. We realised from the Committee has already done, to the work of that it was part of the agenda, but it was not the main Index on Censorship, English PEN and Sense about issue. We were especially concerned with two things: the Science. As part of their campaign they mounted a behaviour of the press in their reporting of the McCanns petition, which I think received 52,000 signatures, and I case, and what appeared to be the growth of a privacy imagine that every Member of the House will have law in the UK, particularly as a result of the judgment received e-mails from constituents expressing their concern regarding Max Mosley. We devoted a lot of time to about the operation of the libel laws. It is not an both those issues and were then slightly sidetracked into immediately obvious subject for generating great concern, another important matter: the behaviour of the News of but it is becoming such an important issue that a lot of the World and one of its journalists in intercepting people did feel very strongly about it. telephone calls. I do not wish to talk about that this afternoon; we spent a lot of time on it in the Committee. The two principal conclusions that we reached—I My main concern is to highlight that, in my view, the will go into a little detail in a minute as to why we report’s most important recommendations, which did reached them—were that, in this country, the way in not get the attention they merited because of the distraction which the libel laws are balanced and the costs attached caused by those other issues, were on libel, and on the to going to court in a libel action, are having a seriously concerns that are now widely felt, both in this country damaging effect on investigative journalism, standards and around the world, about how UK libel laws operate. within the press and legitimate scientific debate. As a I would like to put on record a few words of thanks. passionate believer in freedom of speech and in the My thanks go to the staff of the Committee, who had essential role that a free press must play in a healthy to work very long hours over a lengthy period—not just democracy, I believe that that matter should be of the staff of my own Committee under Tracey Garratty concern to every Member of this House. our principal Clerk, but Hannah Stewart who was However, as if that were not enough, the Committee seconded to us from the Justice Committee. We also also discovered that Britain is now cited alongside had the benefit of the advice of Professor Brian Cathcart authoritarian countries as a place where the press is and Sara John. We also had a lot of help from lawyers. being suppressed because of the actions of the state—in None of the members of the Select Committee were this case, the libel laws. Committees are sometimes lawyers and we were dealing with very technical and criticised for going on foreign trips, but, in this case, it often complicated legal issues, which required several was immensely valuable that we were able to go to towels around the head on many occasions. We had a America and talk to some of the people who were lot of advice particularly from people who came and directly affected, including authors and journalists. We gave up their time: Sir Charles Gray, recently retired also discussed with the American judiciary how they 331WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 332WH viewed our system, and we spoke to legislators at state be introduced: greater cost budgeting and case management, and federal levels. I shall deal later with libel tourism, and a pause every now and again to see how costs are which is very important. progressing. Those are sensible options, but the real A host of different issues affect the operation of our problem, as the hon. Gentleman said, is conditional fee libel laws. Some of them are being dealt with, or at least arrangements, which were introduced with wholly good addressed, in Lord Lester’s Defamation Bill, and I was intent. I absolutely accept that the wish to make the pleased to hear my hon. Friend the Minister speak legal process available to people who would otherwise about the Government’s intention to examine all the struggle to afford it is an entirely worthy objective. The issues and, in due course, to produce a draft Bill that we intention was that a legal practice would be allowed to can debate at length. It is reassuring that they have charge a success fee if it won a case, in recognition of its taken on board the necessity of addressing the matter risk in taking on a CFA. If it lost the case, it would not urgently. However, as the hon. Gentleman said, probably get any money, so the fee was a return for the risk. the biggest issue affecting the whole libel system in the The problem we discovered fairly rapidly was that the UK—how much it costs for somebody to defend a libel practices that specialise in CFAs are very thorough and action—is not actually covered by Lord Lester’s Bill. do not actually take any risks. They go through the None of us imagines that lawyers are ever cheap, but, in cases that are put to them for potential CFAs and the case of libel, trials are often very long, no legal aid is accept them only if they are almost certain that they available, and solicitors and barristers charge, frankly, will win. We struggled to get the exact figures for the eye-watering sums. proportion of CFA cases that were won and lost, but it We had a slightly surreal debate in the Committee was clear that, overwhelmingly, the cases that were between various lawyers as to whether the average was taken on a CFA were a pretty safe bet. On that basis, we £400, £500 or even £600 an hour. To most people, any of found it difficult to understand why firms needed a those three figures is extraordinary, and, given the time 100% success fee on top of their costs. As I said, the that can be taken, it is easy to see how the clock ticks costs are astronomical to begin with; they then double quickly and the amount of money increases rapidly, to them, as the hon. Gentleman indicated, by imposing a the extent that it is now said that the cost of a libel case success fee. in the UK is some 140 times the European average. That is not the end of the story. An additional cost is after-the-event insurance, which is a premium taken out Paul Farrelly: Would the hon. Gentleman agree that by the claimant in case they do not win, and which is the hourly rates actually double in many of the cases chargeable to the defendant in the event that they lose. that are brought under conditional fee arrangements? Such insurance can cost anything up to £65,000 plus tax The record shows that the so-called no win, no fee for every £100,000 worth of cover, so we are now scenario is, as one would expect, nearly always a case of talking about almost 270% of the costs that can be always win, double the fee. awarded against a defendant in a libel action. The extraordinary thing about after-the-event insurance is Mr Whittingdale: The hon. Gentleman pithily that if the defendant loses, obviously he will have to pay encapsulates the situation, which I shall come on to the claimant’s premium, but if the claimant does not later. He is absolutely right, and that makes the situation succeed, he does not have to pay the premium. The even more damaging for any defendant facing a libel insurance is marketed on the basis that one can take it action. out but not have to pay for it at all. It is simply another cost imposed on the defendant, and, because there is My hon. Friend the Minister referred to the work of really no incentive for a claimant to keep costs down, it Lord Justice Jackson, who gave evidence to the Committee is a licence for companies to set their own sums and alongside the Master of the Rolls and addressed the print money. broader question of costs in all civil litigation. I know that the Government have listened to his advice, which The effect of those three things taken together is that was that we should not pick out one particular branch now many newspapers will not seek to defend a libel of civil law and address that, but address the whole action, even if they are convinced that they have a thing together. As my hon. Friend said, that was not the strong case. They will regard it as quicker and cheaper view of the previous Government, and I have some to settle out of court. Perhaps even more worrying is sympathy with their position. The matter is urgent, that often they will not print the story in the first place, which is why the then Justice Secretary, the right hon. simply because of the danger that they might get sued. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), decided to move on That chilling effect on press freedom and journalism defamation cases ahead of the rest of civil litigation. I causes great concern. hear what the Minister says, but I hope that there will not be further delay—we must address the matter quickly. Paul Farrelly: The hon. Gentleman mentioned cost- By all means, let us address it in the round and look at capping and the importance of speedy reform. Does he all the costs involved in civil litigation, but let us not agree that costs have become so surreal that when spend a long time doing so. capping is mentioned as a measure to try to reduce Various solutions have been advocated, and we probably them, a great number of the legal fraternity argue that need to adopt a combination of them. The first thing actually it could increase costs because of the cost of the Committee considered was the suggestion simply to cost-capping meetings, and that, as a consequence, nothing cap costs—to set a limit beyond which one should not happens? be able to go. We accepted the evidence we received that that is a blunt instrument. It is difficult to predict the Mr Whittingdale: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend—I direction of a case, so capping is probably not a realistic call him my hon. Friend in the spirit of the Select solution. However, various solutions undoubtedly could Committee. What he describes introduces another legal 333WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 334WH

[Mr Whittingdale] that a defendant must demonstrate they have got over before they can use the defence of responsible journalism. argument, which is, of course, billable. I will not say There is some debate about the difficulty of meeting that this is a racket, but the lawyers do very well out of each of those tests, with the result that few defendants the process. have used this defence, and that has been a cause of The Committee came up with a couple of concern to us. recommendations to address these problems. The previous It was drawn to my attention not more than two Government suggested that a 10% cap be set on success hours ago that the outcome of the Flood v. Times fees, but as my hon. Friend the Minister rightly said, the Newspapers case has been published. This is the first proposal did not find favour in the House when it was occasion on which the Court of Appeal has overturned introduced before the election. The Committee’s solution a Reynolds defence. Times Newspapers used a Reynolds was not quite to introduce a straight 10% cap, but to say defence in an action brought against it by a Metropolitan that the success fee that could be recovered from a police sergeant. It said that what it had published was in defendant should be set at 10%. We did not feel it right the public interest and that it had met the relevant tests, to interfere with the arrangement between the claimant but the Court of Appeal overturned the initial judgment and their legal representatives; if the claimant wishes to on appeal. I do not want to say anything about the pay a proportion of their damages in the form of a merits of the individual case, but I imagine that the fact success fee, that is a matter for them. However, we said that there is a further constraint on using the Reynolds that the legal entitlement to recover from the defendant defence will mean that adopting it becomes even less could be capped at 10%. Furthermore, for the reasons attractive to serious newspapers. I share the view of the that I have set out, I view after-the-event insurance with hon. Gentleman that putting these things into statute some scepticism, and the Committee said that it should carries a risk as well and that it might not be the most be made irrecoverable in its totality. I remain of the sensible way of strengthening them. However, it is important view that those two measures are sensible and would go that it should be a legitimate defence for journalists a long way to removing the sting that currently exists in investigating stories that are plainly in the public conditional fee arrangements. Obviously, that will be a interest—we are talking not about muck-raking, but matter of great debate over the coming months, and I about serious investigative journalism—to show that leave it to the Minister to ponder those issues. they have used their best endeavours to meet all the The issue is not just costs; there is a whole variety of various tests. We may need to look at that again in the other issues, many of which Lord Lester’s Bill addresses. light of certain developments. One issue is the multiple publication rule. Libel laws were written at a time when the internet did not really Paul Farrelly: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that exist, and its advent has changed everything. That is the conclusions of the libel working group also highlighted true of the permanence of articles and statements, the danger that a codification in law could become a which can now be found on Google at the press of a rigid checklist in itself? It would also be very costly to button. The old Duke of Brunswick case also becomes mount a defence. However, the group was more sympathetic much more serious in the age of the internet. Clearly, it to statutory backing for the principles that underlie a is widely recognised that that should be addressed. defence of responsible journalism, which have already been developed in common law. That might be a fruitful There are a couple of defences that must, on the face way of proceeding. of it, make sense, but which are slightly unclear in legal terms at the moment. One is the defence of fair comment, and I want to say a quick word about the impact of libel Mr Whittingdale: The degree of flexibility that that law on proper scientific debate, an issue on which Sense might provide is clearly better than having a very detailed About Science has done a lot of work. I pay particular set of boxes, each of which has to be ticked. The hon. tribute to Simon Singh, who is a very brave man for Gentleman’s suggestion is probably a sensible way to deciding not take lying down the legal action brought develop things. against him by the British Chiropratic Association after Taken together, all these issues would go some way he suggested that there might be some debate about the not towards weakening our libel laws, but towards medical effectiveness of chiropracy in treating certain restoring people’s absolute right to defend their character conditions. He was willing to put up a great deal of and reputation. The other side of that coin, however, is money from his own account to appeal the judgment. the right of the press to investigate and to expose and Several scientific journals now say that they hesitate the right of scientific journals to carry out legitimate before carrying perfectly legitimate scientific papers debate. I hope that all those things will feature in the that contribute to debate, because of the potential for Government’s draft Bill. organisations, and particularly big corporations, to bring I turn now to the way in which Britain’s libel laws are libel actions. Libel is about whether someone is defamed; viewed overseas, because that should be of huge concern it should not be used to interfere with scientific discourse, to the Government. The issue is encapsulated in the which is important if scientific knowledge is to advance. case of Rachel Ehrenfeld, whom the Committee met The fact that Simon Singh was willing to defend himself when it went to the States. She wrote a book in which and proved triumphant in the end was important and she suggested that a Saudi Arabian business man, who drew attention to the fact that the issue needs to be has Irish citizenship, was in some way providing financial addressed. support to al-Qaeda and terrorism. An action was The other defence that the Committee looked at, and brought against her in the UK on the basis that 23 which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, is the Reynolds copies of the book had been sold here. Obviously, it was defence of responsible journalism. The two landmark also accessible on the internet, so there was publication cases of Reynolds and then Jameel set out the hurdles in that sense as well. However, the book was not widely 335WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 336WH available in the UK, and it is fairly clear that the case Paul Farrelly: I do not want this to become a conversation was brought here not because this was where the damage between members of the Select Committee, but does the was done, or because Rachel Ehrenfeld or the Saudi hon. Gentleman agree that in the internet age matters Arabian had British citizenship, which they did not, but go rather further than that? We received evidence that because the libel laws here were seen to favour claimants. aggressive firms in the field of so-called reputation On the back of that, we discovered that there are now management—the two names that came up most frequently widely shared fears in the United States. The Association were Schillings and Peter Carter-Ruck and Partners—were of American Publishers submitted a statement to the finding so-called defamatory articles on the internet Committee on the Judiciary of the US House of and scouring the world for potential plaintiffs on whose Representatives, which described libel tourism as behalf they could act, simply because the article was “the cynical exploitation of plaintiff-friendly foreign libel laws as accessible from the UK. They could point out to such a weapon to intimidate and silence U.S. authors and publishers.” people that they might well win under Britain’s libel There is no doubt about which foreign libel jurisdiction laws and say, “So bring an action.” it had in mind. Mr Whittingdale: I think that there is evidence of Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I am not an that. I hesitate before accusing the two firms that the expert in the area in question, although I have more hon. Gentleman named, although they happened to than once had to bring a libel action. I think I am right crop up time and again in evidence. Concerns have been in saying that in America pretty much anyone in the expressed about the way CFAs are used in ambulance- public eye can falsely be accused of quite serious chasing cases—with ads on television saying, “Have wrongdoing but will have no recourse to a defamation you fallen over? Ring up this lawyer, because you can suit. I acknowledge that the case that my hon. Friend win thousands of pounds.” This is basically the same used as an example is a worrying one, but I hope that he thing, so there is a legitimate concern. will not argue that we should adjust the libel laws in this I think that what should really make the Government country to prevent people who are defamed from taking concerned, in relation to attitudes towards the British action, just because in America people who are defamed system, is the fact that it is not only publishers and are not allowed to take action. It would be a retrograde newspapers who are making such comments. The UN step to allow open season on reputations to the extent Committee on Human Rights, members of which we that that is allowed in the USA. met, has been very critical of the UK system. In addition, Mr Whittingdale: My hon. Friend raises an important the US Government, at state and federal level, is taking point, and I agree. My hon. Friend the Member for action in response. We went to Albany, where New York Shipley (Philip Davies), who sadly cannot be present state has passed what is called the Libel Terrorism this afternoon, thinks that we should move towards the Protection Act. The title is intended to suggest that we American system, where two things apply. First, the have been giving active succour to terrorism through burden of proof is reversed and it is up to the people our libel laws. The Ehrenfeld case was actually the cause concerned to prove that they did not do what is alleged, of it; indeed, Rachel Ehrenfeld went to the New York whereas here a newspaper or journal must demonstrate state legislature to press for action to be taken. that they did. Secondly, in America the first amendment The Act allows a judgment against an American trumps virtually everything. It is essentially impossible citizen to be ignored or overturned in America if it is to get a pre-publication injunction. The Committee was shown to be a breach of his or her first amendment told by people in public life that for such people there is rights. However, that has happened not only in New essentially no defence against libel other than to make York state; such legislation is appearing in other states their case in public and try to convince people that what and has also passed into Congress. I have the report of was said was wrong. 13 July—two days ago—stating that the Senate Judiciary I do not go that far. Some of the criticism of the UK’s Committee unanimously passed bipartisan legislation libel laws in America is based simply on the fact that aimed at protecting authors and journalists from libel they disagree with our stance and think that we should law suits filed abroad. Essentially, the New York Bill has adopt their system. That is not the reason I am concerned. now been taken up, and it looks as though it will pass I am concerned about the use of the UK courts by into federal law. people who have no connection with the UK; it is the When the previous Lord Chancellor, the right hon. tourism aspect. That is a much narrower, but nevertheless Member for Blackburn, gave evidence to the Select very important, issue. As an example of the consequences Committee, he said first that he was not convinced that I want to quote a joint submission to the Select Committee the situation was a great problem. Secondly, he did not by Advance Publications Inc., the Association of American seem terribly fussed even if foreign Governments were Publishers, Associated Press, Bloomberg, CBS television, taking the attitude I have described. He said that we had Global Witness, Human Rights Watch, the Los Angeles learned that there had been no representations from the Times, Macmillan, NBC, The New York Times and British Embassy to defend our system; those concerned others. Perhaps the most important passage reads: had sat by and let these things go on. I find it profoundly “Leading US newspapers are actively considering abandoning worrying that Britain’s closest ally—the country that, the supply of the 200 odd copies they make available for sale in whatever one thinks of America, is regarded as a bastion London—mainly to Americans who want full details of their of free speech—should regard us as so restrictive and local news and sport. They do not make profits out of these hostile to the principle of free speech that it feels it minimal and casual sales and they can no longer risk losing millions of dollars in a libel action which they would never face necessary to pass an Act such as I have outlined. Although under US law. Does the UK really want to be seen as the only that Act does not specifically refer to the UK, it is country in Europe—indeed in the world—where important US perfectly clear that it is directed at this country. I hope papers cannot be obtained in print form?” that, given that the Bill is now actively passing through 337WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 338WH

[Mr Whittingdale] not necessarily have to say whether the story is even true—they can just use such legislation to prevent it the Senate and Congress, the Minister will start to talk from being published. That needs to be borne in mind if to American legislators as a matter of urgency, and we are going to have the thorough overhaul that I hope perhaps reassure them that the Government intend to the Minister intends. deal with the issue. The last area that I should like to mention, which is complementary to libel law, is the self-regulatory mechanism Paul Farrelly: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, adopted by the press—the Press Complaints very soon after making those statements to the Select Commission—which the Committee supports. There is Committee, the previous Lord Chancellor was open-minded a lot of debate about the effectiveness of the PCC, but it enough to change his mind completely? He added the offers an alternative. If people choose to go to court issue of libel tourism firmly to the remit of the libel and mount a libel action, it can take a long time and working group, and one of the four main areas on cost a lot of money, but at the end they might get a which it reported at the end of March was libel tourism definitive statement that they have been defamed—and and reforms to court procedures to stop abuse of process they may get a lot of money as a result. The PCC can and abuse of forum. take action quickly and is free, but people do not get any money: the most that they can hope for is a judgment Mr Whittingdale: Indeed, that is right, and the hon. by the PCC that the newspaper was wrong to carry a Gentleman is correct to draw attention to it. I am story. Each option has alternative attractions; each delighted that the right hon. Gentleman came round to mechanism is useful, and one cannot substitute for our view that the matter was a serious one, which the other. needed to be addressed. The Committee was concerned about the most serious One or two other matters occurred to the Committee, serial libel that has taken place in the past 50 years—perhaps one of which was referred to in passing by the hon. within memory—which is that suffered by the McCanns, Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme, although, perhaps who were subjected to libel not once, but day after day, out of modesty, he did not devote as much time to it as and not just in one newspaper, but in newspapers across it deserves. That is the issue of this place and the the whole range of Fleet street. That was eventually reporting of our proceedings. It is well known that the recognised and a lot of apologies were made, and hon. Gentleman uncovered the existence of a super- payments were also made, but that cannot have made injunction taken out on behalf of Trafigura and tabled up for what they suffered at what was already a terribly parliamentary questions about it, which led to a spat distressing time for them. We were concerned that the between Carter-Ruck and The Guardian about whether self-regulatory mechanism of the press appeared to it was legitimate to report the fact that those questions have failed in that instance, and we made a number of had been tabled. There is no question about where recommendations about how it should be strengthened. parliamentary privilege lies: the hon. Gentleman is The role of the PCC needs to be borne in mind when completely protected under parliamentary privilege in looking at libel, because it and the courts deal with tabling those questions. similar problems, but perhaps from different ends. The situation becomes a lot less clear—this was news I think that I have spoken for long enough, but I have to me—in respect of a newspaper’s right to report the spoken for so long because we in the Committee spent a fact that the hon. Gentleman had tabled the questions. great deal of time on this serious issue. I am pleased Previously, I had the impression that the reporting of that statements in the manifestos of all three parties, responsible activity was allowed, under the Parliamentary and in the programme of the coalition Government, are Papers Act 1840, but Carter-Ruck argued vigorously now being progressed and that the Government have with The Guardian that the super-injunction prevented made it clear that they are determined to take action in the newspaper from reporting the questions. The Guardian’s this area. I hope that we, as a Committee, have helped in-house lawyer confirmed that that was her view as that process and that we will continue to do so in the well. It later became apparent that the House authorities debate on the draft Bill when it appears. probably shared Carter-Ruck’s view. In my view, that is a profound threat to this place. 3.35 pm In a way, there is no point in our being able to say things in Parliament or table questions if nobody is Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): It is a pleasure allowed to report them. In the Select Committee’s view, to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Benton. any uncertainty about reporting parliamentary proceedings We have had an interesting debate. I congratulate the and the extent to which privilege allows Members of members of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee Parliament to raise matters with a degree of protection on their contributions to the debate; they have done an against libel action, needs to be addressed quickly and enormous amount of work on this issue. I was pleased removed. Lord Lester has included this in his Bill. to hear the Minister set out clearly that, although he The two last things that I will mention are not principally wants to take action to reform the libel laws, it is a about libel, but touch on it. We Committee members complex matter and a delicate balance that has to be spent a lot of time considering privacy, and the balance struck. He set out clearly the need to protect academic between articles 8 and 10 of the European convention and scientific debate and investigative journalism, and on human rights, which has been used to bring in a the problems in respect of the costs in civil proceedings, privacy law in this country. That matter touches on libel particularly libel proceedings. because some people now choose to use privacy legislation My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme rather than libel legislation. Those two kinds of legislation (Paul Farrelly) also stressed the need to get the change are not separate. Under privacy legislation, people do right, and I think all hon. Members would agree. He 339WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 340WH also touched on the role of corporations in defamation reputation, and ensuring that newspapers and other cases and the possible damage to investigative journalism organisations are not forced to remove articles from the that can result from that. internet simply because the passage of time made it The Select Committee Chair, the hon. Member for difficult and costly to defend them. Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), set out clearly the current The report for the Ministry of Justice set out two state of the law and the damage that can result from options: a one-year limitation rule, or retaining the rule that, particularly the problems that we are dealing with on multiple publications but allowing exceptions—perhaps in respect of success fees and costs. the extension of qualified privilege or a similar freestanding All the contributions to the debate reflect the real defence. concern about the current state of the law and the complex nature of the reforms that are needed. The Paul Farrelly: Lord Lester’s Bill addresses qualified Select Committee report on press standards, privacy privilege. Does my hon. Friend agree that the law on and libel made a useful contribution to the debate. qualified privilege is not now working to provide protection Others have made useful contributions, too. For instance, as it should and was intended to do, particularly of the a number of early-day motions have been tabled in the work of non-governmental organisations? They often House, and English PEN and Index on Censorship feel constrained, for example, in referring to United produced reports, leading the then Secretary of State Nations reports or reports from overseas bodies that for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn make allegations because they fear a libel suit in which (Mr Straw), to set up the Ministry of Justice working they must prove all the allegations themselves rather group on libel, which produced a report last year. than relying on the report of otherwise august bodies? We all face the problem that any reform of the law Helen Jones: My hon. Friend makes a valid point, needs to do a number of different things: it needs to and I hope that we can examine the issues in detail when protect the right of free speech, particularly following the draft Bill is before us. I want to state clearly that by the Singh case; it needs to protect that right in free focusing on, for example, libel tourism and cases brought scientific debate and inquiry, and it needs to protect the by wealthy individuals, we are sometimes in danger of rights of campaigning investigative journalists who publish forgetting that others must also have access to the law. articles that are in the public interest. But it also needs We all agree that justice is not justice unless everyone to ensure that those who are defamed, particularly has access to it. those of modest means, have recourse to the law to That leads me to what is frequently described as the protect their reputation. The hon. Member for Maldon elephant in the room—costs and conditional fee agreements. mentioned the libels suffered by Mr and Mrs McCann. The Constitutional Affairs Committee considered the I do not think that any hon. Member in this Chamber matter in the last Parliament, and received a large would suggest that people in such a position ought to be number of submissions from media organisations indicating debarred from having recourse to the law because they that they are particularly affected by the use of CFAs. are not wealthy. The Committee said that one of the main issues for We face difficulties in drawing up a new law, but I am defendants in libel cases is costs. When Lord Phillips of pleased that all parties are now committed to doing so. Worth Matravers gave evidence to that Committee, he The Labour party manifesto for the election committed highlighted the problem of costs in defamation actions, us to changing the law to protect the right of defendants and expressed many people’s concern that fighting and to speak freely. The Conservatives and the Liberal winning a case could incur substantial costs that a Democrats also committed themselves to reform. I genuinely defendant might not be able to recover. That is a valid do not believe that this is a party political issue and I point, but the Committee pointed out and we must bear say that as someone who is normally a tribal politician. it in mind that while it received many submissions from The House needs to scrutinise this issue carefully to get media organisations, it is much more difficult to receive the balance of the law right. submissions on behalf of claimants because they are It is clear that so-called libel tourism is causing real not in organised groups that can give evidence to Select concern. In fact, English PEN and Index on Censorship Committees. argued that English libel law imposes unnecessary and We all know that the balance is delicate. The previous disproportionate restrictions on free speech, and that Government sought to deal with the costs of defamation the effect reaches throughout the world. Many of us actions before taking action on Lord Justice Jackson’s might not go as far as that, but it was clear when the report by limiting the uplift in CFA cases to 10%, but Select Committee considered the matter that restrictions that did not find favour with the Committee that scrutinised may be necessary on claimants whose primary place of it in the House. I remember that very well because I was residence or business is not in the UK, and that they the Whip on the Committee, and it was the only one I should perhaps face additional hurdles before being have ever lost. Since then, some wise heads have suggested able to bring a case here. slightly higher limitations and other ways of capping It is also clear that the scope of the defence of public costs. interest set out in the Reynolds and Jameel cases needs clarification. I hear what hon. Members have said about Paul Farrelly: As other hon. Members have said, we the risks of putting that defence into statute—I am made a distinction between limiting the uplift in defamation minded to go down that route—but we must consider cases and limiting recoverability. Does my hon. Friend the rule on multiple publication, particularly in the age agree that in such cases the issue is reputation, and that of the internet. The Select Committee suggested a limitation damages should be secondary? It should be possible for period of one year, with the courts having discretion to claimants to share damages with solicitors in part to extend that. Again, it was clear that a balance must be contribute to their costs. That would not be limited by struck between allowing individuals to protect their capping recoverability from the other side. 341WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 342WH

Helen Jones: My hon. Friend highlights an interesting 3.50 pm suggestion by the Select Committee, but the issue that we must grapple with is whether solicitors’ firms would Mr Djanogly: I thank the hon. Member for Newcastle- be prepared to take cases in those circumstances. That is under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly) and my hon. Friend the why I welcome the Minister’s commitment to publishing Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) for the interesting a draft Bill, and to having pre-legislative scrutiny of the and helpful views that they have expressed during the issue. I do not believe that there is a debate between us debate. I recognise that the co-operative approach taken about what we want to achieve, but there is and must be by the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen a debate about how we achieve it. The law in this area, Jones) is the best way to help the Bill to become law. as has been said many times, is extremely complex and The wide range of issues that have been raised and difficult, so it is right that the House examines it in the strongly held opinions that exist serve to illustrate detail, goes through the process of pre-legislative scrutiny— the complexity of this debate. They also show the the previous Government also intended to do that—and importance of finding solutions that are workable in comes to a proper conclusion. practice and will achieve a fair balance that preserves and upholds the right to freedom of speech, while not We certainly want to protect the media’s right to preventing people from taking action to protect their publish articles that are in the public interest—we all reputation from defamatory material where appropriate. know that that is slightly different from being interesting The views that hon. Members have put forward will be to the public—and we all want to protect the right of of considerable help to the Government in developing scientists to engage in proper scientific debate and proposals for a draft Bill that will endeavour to strike discussion. That is vital. It is also important that people the right balance on those important and sensitive can protect themselves from malicious and untrue attacks. matters. I was pleased to hear the Minister and others accept that we must get the balance right. As I said at the beginning of the debate, I am not in a position today to indicate exactly which provisions may be included in the draft Bill, or to set out conclusively Dr Lewis: I totally agree with the hon. Lady’s measured the Government’s position on all the individual points approach. On a couple of occasions when I was defamed, raised. However, I assure hon. Members that I will take I knew that the sources were malicious opponents, and all the views that have been expressed fully into account, in a recent case a political opponent at a general election. together with those views that have emerged from the Such people do not have the guts to publish the libel, recent debate in another place and the outcomes of the they go to a newspaper, which then publishes it, and the informal consultation with interested parties that will malicious source is protected by the newspaper, which take place over the summer. A large number of points says that it must guard its sources and never reveal have been raised, and I would like to expand on some of them. Before we lose too much sleep over the plight of them. I do not wish to restrict the consultation process newspapers when attacking individuals’ reputation, let in any way but, I repeat, today is about the Government us remember that, to some extent, they bring much of it encouraging debate, not about providing conclusions. on themselves by happily recycling malicious falsehoods In that vein, let me congratulate my hon. Friend the put forward by people who do not have the guts to say it Member for Maldon on his re-election as Chair of the for themselves. Culture, Media and Sport Committee, not least because he can now see through his Committee’s valuable work on defamation. In a report published earlier this year, Helen Jones: Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman has the Committee made recommendations on a range of far more personal experience of defamation actions issues relating to the law of libel. Those included proposals than me. It is important to stress that it is fundamental about a responsible journalism defence, libel tourism, to free society that we protect the rights of investigative the defences of justification and fair comment, the journalists to publish comments that may be uncomfortable ability of corporations to bring libel actions, the early for people and which they may not want published, but resolution of meaning and issues relating to the internet, which it is in the public interest to publish. At the same and the multiple publication rule. time, we must protect individuals from malicious and On CFAs, the Committee agreed that costs were too untrue attacks. How we engage with the draft Bill when high and that reform was needed. As my hon. Friend the Government publish it will be a test of the House’s said, the Committee also recommended that in defamation seriousness. It is true—we have experience of this—that cases, CFA success fees should remain at 100% of base pre-legislative scrutiny improves legislation. This time, costs, but that only 10% should be recoverable from the we have a chance to get the laws on defamation right for defendant. The Committee’s approach therefore differed a generation. from both the previous Government’s proposal to impose Hon. Members who have spoken in the debate and a maximum success fee of 10%, and from Lord Justice the various Select Committees that have looked at this Jackson’s recommendation to abolish the recoverability subject have made valuable contributions, and I look of the success fee and the after-the-event premium. forward to discussing the issue further. The House I am grateful to my hon. Friend and the members of should engage in that complex process and draw on the his Committee for the valuable contribution to the valuable experience that is provided by a number of debate made by that report. As the hon. Member for hon. Members, either through the Committee or, as was Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) noted, many of unfortunately the case for the hon. Member for New the issues raised were also included in a report entitled Forest East (Dr Lewis), through personal experience. I “Free speech is not for sale”, which was published by am sure that there is good will on all sides of the House English PEN and Index on Censorship last autumn, in to ensure that the legislation works. a report by the Ministry of Justice’s libel working group 343WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 344WH in March this year, and in Lord Lester’s private Member’s reduce success fees in defamation-related proceedings. Bill. I would like to extend the Government’s thanks to Although those proceedings are important, we know all those involved in considering those important matters. that CFAs have been a cause of major concern in other I confirm that their views will be taken into account areas such as clinical negligence cases against the NHS, both in our review of the substantive law and in how we or in the context of the so-called “compensation culture” progress the issue of CFA reform. debate. The change that the order sought to achieve was Paul Farrelly: Will the Minister give way? inconsistent with more considered proposals in the field, which were known to the Government at that Mr Djanogly: I am moving on to CFA reform, if that time. Lord Justice Jackson spent a year considering is what the hon. Gentleman wishes to speak about. those proposals and wider issues, and made recommendations in January this year for the reform of Paul Farrelly: It is. CFAs across all areas of civil litigation. In addition, the report by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee Mr Djanogly: Then the hon. Gentleman should listen—I entitled, “Press Standards, Privacy and Libel”was published knew that I would not get away by saying just that. He under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member addressed the issue of cost and mentioned the statutory for Maldon. The Government recognise the urgency instrument produced by the previous Government at and the complexity of these issues, but we strongly the end of the previous Parliament. I would like to believe that it is important to consider the case for explain our thinking on that issue. I confirm to him and potential reform across all areas of civil litigation, rather to my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon that we are than confine it to individual areas. Lord Young of firmly committed to taking timely action to reduce the Graffham is currently conducting a review into health high costs under CFAs, while ensuring appropriate access and safety law and the compensation culture, and we to justice. As my hon. Friend spelled out in great detail, await his report with interest. We are examining the the high cost of CFAs is a concern not only in defamation options for reform and will announce the way forward proceedings, but more widely across other areas of civil as soon as possible. litigation. I was pleased that he thought it important to My hon. Friend the Member for Maldon discussed look at the issue in the round, and I confirm that we will funding litigation in a wider context, and I should add not delay the process as a consequence of that. that Lord Justice Jackson is persuaded that solicitors I am conscious that, as the hon. Member for Warrington and barristers should be permitted to use so-called North said, the attempt by the previous Government to “contingency fees” in litigation, subject to appropriate limit CFA success fees in defamation cases through the regulation and arrangements for costs recovery.Contingency Conditional Fee Agreements (Amendment) Order 2010 fees are a type of no win, no fee agreement, under which was not recommended to the House of Commons by the lawyer’s fee is payable only if the client wins, and is the Committee. The Labour Government seemed to calculated as a percentage of the sum recovered. believe that by reducing the success fee mark up on Importantly, the lawyer’s fee is a percentage of the CFAs and defamation cases, the problems that we are damages, rather than being fee-based. That type of debating today would simply go away. It is true that funding is widely available in other jurisdictions, but is those who were not rich would have been denied access not permitted in civil litigation in England and Wales. to justice, but that would not have been the case for a Lord Justice Jackson considers that contingency fees wealthy individual or a corporation that wanted to could increase access to justice. We shall also need to suppress academic or scientific research, because they consider his recommendations on that issue. would not have wished to use CFAs in the first place. My hon. Friend the Member for Maldon expressed That blundering piecemeal approach is exactly what the concern on libel tourism. There is a widespread perception Government intend not to pursue, and we will be looking that the English courts have become the forum of at the issue in the round. I was pleased to hear the hon. choice for those who want to sue for libel and that that Lady agree to that. is having a chilling effect on freedom of expression in other countries. For example, in the USA, a number of Paul Farrelly: The issue is complex. One person who states have introduced legislation to prevent foreign was relieved that the statutory instrument did not succeed libel judgments from being enforced there. I understand was Peter Wilmshurst, who is a consultant cardiologist that legislation on the issue completed one of its stages at Shrewsbury and the University hospital of North in the US Senate this week. My hon. Friend mentioned Staffordshire. He is being sued by an American company, that. NMT Medical, and is being defended under a CFA. His problems are that there is one-way traffic. There are Although we need to review the implication of that costs and delays and ultimately, he has no guarantee of possible law and other laws, such as those coming from getting his costs back if he is successful in countersuing the EU, as far as they relate to English jurisdiction, I am for libel, or if NMT Medical loses the case. That is an concerned that we should not be stampeded into basing example of the complexity of the issue, and the way our laws on an American world view of free speech. My that the libel laws urgently need to be reformed because hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr of the costs and complexities involved, and the ability Lewis) expressed that point very well in his strong and of companies to silence scientific debate. valuable intervention. There are mixed views about how far libel tourism is Mr Djanogly: I disagree that the proposed order a real problem. A wide range of interesting views were would have had the immediate impact that the hon. expressed in the Second Reading debate on Lord Lester’s Gentleman suggests. However, we are moving on and Bill in another place on 9 July, including by Lord the process is under way. That order sought only to Hoffmann, who in his speech and in a very interesting 345WH Defamation Law15 JULY 2010 Defamation Law 346WH

[Mr Djanogly] Paul Farrelly: With respect, I think that comfort will be taken in certain quarters—I can hear the Bollinger lecture earlier this year was extremely sceptical about corks popping as we speak. the extent of any problem in that area. The problem with the Ehrenfeld case, for instance, is that she did not Mr Djanogly: Given the time for which the present defend the action, so it is difficult to draw conclusions Government have been in position, the hon. Gentleman from it. Lord Hoffmann suggested that Dr Ehrenfeld should appreciate that we are moving fairly quickly, could have relied on the Reynolds defence. I make no despite his suggestion of Bollinger corks popping. comment on that, but those issues will need to be The hon. Gentleman mentioned super-injunctions. reviewed. In the light of recent concerns highlighted in the Trafigura Research that we conducted in the context of the case and the John Terry case, the Master of the Rolls Ministry of Justice libel working group’s consideration has established a committee to examine the use of did not show any significant number of actual cases super-injunctions, the principle of open justice and involving foreign litigants in the High Court in 2009. other issues relating to injunctions that bind the press. However, non-governmental organisations have said that As the concerns are largely procedural, relating to a major problem arises from the threat of libel proceedings notification, service of documents and the application by wealthy foreigners and public figures, which is used of the civil procedure rules and practice directions, it is to stifle investigative journalism, regardless of whether appropriate for the judiciary to take a lead in that actual cases are in the end brought, so the number of matter. There was a meeting of the committee at the cases alone may not accurately reflect the extent of the end of June, so I can confirm that the matter is proceeding. problem. My hon. Friend the Member for Maldon discussed A number of possible approaches have been proposed the important issue, contained in Lord Lester’s Bill, of to deal with any problems that exist. For example, the parliamentary proceedings being protected by privilege. libel working group proposed procedural steps to tighten I agree that that will need to be reviewed carefully, and the rules and practice in order to head off inappropriate possibly in the context of a wider parliamentary privilege claims at the earliest possible stage in cases in which Bill. court permission is required to serve a defamation The hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme asked claim outside England and Wales. Lord Lester’s Bill has whether restrictions should be placed on the ability of adopted a different approach, which focuses on whether corporations to bring claims for libel. I think that he the publication in England and Wales can reasonably be was referring to clause 11 of Lord Lester’s Bill, which regarded as having caused substantial harm to reputation, would require a claimant corporation to show that the having regard to the extent of publication elsewhere. We publication complained of had caused or was likely to shall consider those proposals and other possible options cause it substantial financial loss. English PEN and the carefully in reaching a decision on the way forward. In Select Committee suggested that restrictions should be doing so, we will of course have to keep it in mind that placed on the ability of corporations to sue and that key there is relevant European legislation—in particular, elements should be a requirement for a corporation to the Brussels I regulation on jurisdictional matters—with prove actual damage to its business, and the burden of which we shall need to ensure compliance. proof being altered. The hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme discussed The introduction of reforms to restrict the circumstances the timing of our considerations of the Jackson review. in which corporations could bring a claim would certainly I can advise him that we intend to revise the relevant be controversial and would raise a number of legal and cost-related recommendations in conjunction with our practical issues—for example, whether claims between review of legal aid. That will be consulting in the competing companies should be treated differently from autumn of this year, which he will appreciate is before those where a company is suing an individual or a the time when the draft defamation Bill is to be tabled newspaper, and how any provisions would affect corporate for consultation. bodies that are not businesses, such as academic institutions. Also unclear is the extent of any problem in that area and how any difficulties could best be addressed. We Paul Farrelly: May I come back on that, as the would need to consult on and consider the issue most Minister might have expected? I think that I noticed the carefully. quizzical brow of my friend the Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr As I said, we aim to publish our draft Bill for formal Whittingdale). The Minister’s statement on going ahead consultation and pre-legislative scrutiny in the new year. and more consultation in line with the reforms to legal I am sure that all the issues raised today will be the aid has left me none the wiser as to when that process subject of extensive further discussion both within and will come to an end. outside Parliament in the context of that consultation and more generally. It is of great importance that we ensure that the law achieves a fair balance between Mr Djanogly: As I said, I cannot at this stage give a freedom of expression and the protection of reputation. firm date for when a draft Bill will be published or for I thank hon. Members again for the valuable contribution when the legal aid consultation will finally be settled. to the ongoing debate on these issues that they have However, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that those made today. matters are moving forward at speed. The legal aid Question put and agreed to. consultation will be published in the autumn. I hope that he will take some comfort from the fact that we are 4.8 pm not pushing the issue into the long grass. Sitting adjourned. 35WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 36WS

The Government notes the Committee’s comments Written Ministerial on the vulnerability of areas outside of London that are heavily dependent on public sector jobs. To help areas Statements and communities particularly affected by reductions in public spending make the transition to private sector-led growth and prosperity, the Government will create a Thursday 15 July 2010 regional growth fund in 2011-12 and 2012-13. This fund will operate in England only and support proposals from private and public-private bodies that create sustainable BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS increases in business employment and growth. A White Paper later in the summer will set out details of these proposals. South West and Yorkshire and Humber Regional The Yorkshire and the Humber Regional Committee Committees report—Work of Yorkshire Forward The Government agree with the Committee that The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Yorkshire Forward has played a part in tackling structural and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): This statement provides a economic problems in Yorkshire and the Humber. However, Government response in relation to the following reports: the Government also note the Committee’s concerns INTRODUCTION that the Regional Development Agency has moved away from its core role and has taken on too many South West Regional Committee inquiry into the prospects for the South West Economy published on 31 March 2010. diffuse responsibilities. Yorkshire and the Humber Regional Committee inquiry The Government are committed to renewing and into the Work of Yorkshire Forward published on 16 March strengthening local economies and reorganising the delivery 2010. of economic development to ensure a focused, targeted The dissolution of Parliament in April 2010 did not delivery of services in areas where it can have the most allow sufficient time for a formal Government response benefit. to be sent to these Committees, which following a The Government intend to abolish Regional statement by the Leader of the House on 26 May 2010 Development Agencies through the Public Bodies Bill will not be re-enacted. and enable elected local authorities, working with business, to lead economic development through new Local THE GOVERNMENT’S RESPONSE Enterprise Partnerships. A White Paper later in the The creation of the coalition Government has meant summer will set out details of these proposals. that the policy context has changed significantly for some issues, which the Committees have highlighted. London Development Agency (Savings 2010-11) The “Coalition: our programme for Government”, outlines the Government’s position on these and other relevant issues. As a consequence the Government do not intend The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and to respond in detail to each of the recommendations. Skills (Vince Cable): I have written to the Mayor of The Government acknowledge the reports of the London to confirm that the London Development Agency Committees and thanks the Committee members and will provide £40 million in savings from their budget for witnesses for their contributions. 2010-11. The South West Regional Committee report—Prospects This follows the announcement by the Chief Secretary for South West Economy to the Treasury on 24 May 2010 that the other eight The South West Regional Committee report made regional development agencies would contribute savings 15 recommendations and looked at: of £270 million in 2010-11. The opportunities that green industries might provide for A copy of my letter addressed to the Mayor of the people of the region in terms of jobs, skills, supply London dated 6 July 2010 has been placed in the chains, investment, and the quality of life. Libraries of both Houses. The importance of small and micro businesses, and social enterprises, for the region and the remarkable resilience they TREASURY have shown through the recession. The need for greater broadband coverage across the region Terrorist Asset-Freezing (especially in rural areas). South West strengths in advanced manufacturing/ composites, creative industries and tourism. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Potential vulnerability of the region’s dependence on public Hoban): Following a ruling by the Supreme Court and sector employment. the passage of temporary asset-freezing legislation in The Government share the Committee’s conclusions February 2010, the Government are today introducing that a green industry provides enormous opportunities the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc Bill in the House of for the whole of the United Kingdom. The new green Lords to put the UK’s terrorist asset-freezing regime on economy, including a green investment bank, is at the a secure legislative footing. The Bill will be published heart of this Government’s commitments on energy tomorrow. and climate change alongside its role in the wider economy. The Bill has been informed by a public consultation This Government have also made commitments to exercise on draft legislation that was launched by the increasing opportunities for small businesses both start previous Government. The Government are today up and growth and emphasised its desire for an enterprise- publishing by Command Paper the consultation responses led recovery. received and the Government’s response. 37WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 38WS

The payment of state benefits to the spouses of designated West Midlands Regional Committee inquiry into “Planning persons for the Future: Housing and Economic Development in the West Midlands” published 8 April 2010 (HC 421, Session As a result of concerns raised in consultation responses 2009-2010). and in Parliament during the discussion of emergency asset-freezing legislation and in the light of a recent West Midlands Regional Committee inquiry into “Making the Voice of the West Midlands heard: the Work of the European Court of Justice ruling, the Government are Committee, and the future for the Region” published 8 April from today removing restrictions imposed by the previous 2010 (HC 528, Session 2009-2010). Government on the payment of state benefits to the spouses of people who are subject to an asset-freeze The dissolution of Parliament in April 2010 did not (designated persons). allow sufficient time for a formal Government response to be sent to these Committees, which following a This Government do not believe that the asset-freezing statement made by the Leader of the House on 26 May regime should affect state benefits paid to the spouses 2010 will not be re-enacted. or partners of designated persons. They do not believe that such restrictions are necessary to prevent terrorist THE GOVERNMENT’S RESPONSE finance and they are concerned at the impact they may The Committees’ reports were written against the have on other family members and on family life. backcloth of the previous administration’s priorities. The Government are embedding this change in law The creation of the coalition Government has meant by including a provision in the Bill to clarify that that the policy context has changed significantly for payments of state benefits to the spouses or partners of some issues, which the Committees have highlighted. people designated by the Treasury under the UK’s “The Coalition: our programme for government”, outlines domestic asset-freezing regime are not caught by asset- the Government’s position on these and other relevant freezing provisions. These payments will therefore no issues. As a consequence the Government do not intend longer have to be made under licence from the Treasury. to respond in detail to each of the recommendations. The Government believe that this approach will ensure The Government acknowledge the reports of each of that the asset-freezing regime is fairer and more the Committees and thank the Committee members proportionate, while remaining effective in preventing and witnesses for their contributions. terrorist finance. The East Midlands Regional Committee report—Does the East Midlands get a fair share of funding. Removing Requirement to Annuitise by age 75 This was a cross-cutting report and key themes were: Review departmental funding formulae, especially health and police. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Review transport funding and push for rail electrification. Hoban): As announced at the emergency Budget, the Government will end the effective requirement to annuitise Review timeliness of population statistics used in funding by age 75 from April 2011. The Treasury has today allocation methodology. launched an eight-week consultation on the details of Encouragement of continued partnership working. this change. This consultation document sets out proposals The report claimed that the East Midlands did not that will simplify the treatment of retirement savings get its fair share of funding and the coalition is concerned and reduce complexity for individuals as well as for about fairness. However, the Government believe that pension and annuity providers. the most urgent issue facing the country is tackling the This consultation is being conducted in accordance budget deficit and therefore all Government funding with the code of practice on consultation and will run will be closely scrutinised and public expenditure will from 15 July 2010 until 10 September 2010 inclusive. reduce over the next five years. The announcements in Copies of the document are available on the live the Budget on 22 June were an important part of that consultations page of the Treasury website and have process; in addition, the Government have published been deposited in the Library of the House. their proposed approach to the Spending Review 2010. The spending review, due to conclude in the autumn, will set spending limits for every Government Department for the period 2011-12 to 2014-15. To ensure that resources COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT are prioritised within tighter budgets, Departments will be asked to prioritise their main programmes against a tough set of criteria to ensure value for money in public East Midlands, South East and West Midlands spending. The Government are determined to take decisions Regional Committee in a way that is in line with their values of freedom, fairness and responsibility. Therefore the Government The Secretary of State for Communities and Local will: Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Deliver its guarantee that health spending will increase in INTRODUCTION real terms in each year of the Parliament, and that 0.7% of GNI will be spent on overseas aid by 2013; This statement provides a Government response in relation to the following reports: Limit, as far as possible, the impact of reductions in spending on the poorest and most vulnerable in society, and on those East Midlands Regional Committee inquiry into “Does the regions heavily dependent on the public sector; East Midlands get a Fair Share of Funding” published 26 March 2010 (HC 104-I, Session 2009-2010). Protect, as far as possible, the spending that generates high South East Regional Committee inquiry into “Housing in economic returns; the South East” published on 7 April 2010 (HC 403, Session Make further savings to fund the priorities set out in their 2009-2010). programme. 39WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 40WS

As part of the spending review process the Public engage with their partners, residents, and other interested Expenditure Committee will ensure the Government parties when making decisions about future plans and take the time to consider collectively the effect of different investment. options on its agreed priorities, and on different groups The West Midlands Regional Committee report—Making of society. Over the summer, the Public Expenditure the Voice of the West Midlands heard: the Work of the Committee will test and challenge Departments’ plans, Committee, and the future for the Region. and ensure that they respond to external engagement. The Government have confirmed that they do not The South East Regional Committee report—Housing in intend to re-establish Regional Committees. The Committee the South East. considered regional governance structures and further The Government share the Committee’s conclusion consideration of these issues will take place through the that housing is crucial to the well-being of the economy fundamental review of the role of Government, which and population of south east England. They further will be completed as part of the spending review. believe that development is necessary if it is to help people meet their aspirations to own their homes. That is why the Government intend to provide incentives for CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT local authorities to deliver sustainable development, including for new homes and businesses. Broadband Industry Day The Government do not agree however that an appropriate level of development is best achieved through The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media the use of Whitehall-imposed targets, a belief which and Sport (Mr Jeremy Hunt): On 8 June 2010, Official underpins many of the report’s conclusions and Report, columns 5-6WS, I set out a number of actions recommendations. That is why we are taking steps to the Government are taking to promote rapid roll-out of abolish regional strategies and regional housing targets. superfast broadband. As announced on 8 June, I am The Government believe that, rather than their prescribing today publishing a discussion paper setting out our the number and location of homes or requiring reviews thinking on broadband providers gaining access to of the green belt where there is no local desire to do so, other utilities’ infrastructure and inviting views on the local people in villages, towns and cities should be able most effective ways to achieve it. This coincides with an to develop their own vision for the places in which they Industry Day being organised today by Broadband live. It is committed to working with local people to Delivery UK. achieve this by, for example, enhancing community At the Industry Day, Broadband Delivery UK is involvement in drawing up local plans, allowing local providing further details of the Government’s approach authorities to benefit financially when they facilitate to delivery of the commitment to make a service level of new housing and enabling community-owned local housing 2Mbps available to those parts of the country still trusts. without a basic level of access and the approach to the The West Midlands Regional Committee report—Planning selection of the locations for the three rural market for the Future: Housing and Economic Development in testing projects that will bring superfast broadband to the West Midlands. rural areas. Most of the Committee’s recommendations relate to A copy of the discussion paper will be deposited in regional strategies and the Government consider that the Libraries of both Houses. housing and planning decisions are best made at the local level. Consequently, it is returning decision-making powers on housing and planning to local councils by ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE abolishing regional strategies through the Decentralisation and Localism Bill announced in the Queen’s Speech on Draft Energy National Policy Statements 25 May 2010. (Consultation) The Government have a vision for a simpler more efficient and transparent planning system which will support and enable the investment, economic growth The Minister of State, Department of Energy and and housing that the country needs to take us out of Climate Change (Charles Hendry): Today, I am announcing recession. A framework of incentives will ensure that the Government will be launching a re-consultation communities receive a share in the benefits of housing in the autumn on the draft Energy National Policy development and not just the costs. Statements following the consultation undertaken by the previous Administration earlier this year, and in Future public expenditure for housing will be considered particular due to changes which have been made to the in the spending review, but the Government will provide Appraisal of Sustainability for the Overarching Energy mechanisms to bring empty homes back into use and National Policy Statement. The revised statements will create new Local Housing Trusts that will make it give investors the certainty they need to bring forward simpler for communities to provide homes for local proposals to maintain security of supply and ensure people. They also intend to explore and promote a progress towards decarbonisation and plans for the first range of measures to meet housing needs including the new nuclear power station to begin generating electricity promotion of shared ownership schemes and helping by 2018 remain on course. We intend to present the social tenants and others to own their own home. finalised statements to Parliament for ratification next The Government encourage all local authorities to spring. A detailed implementation plan for planning share best practice in developing innovative approaches reform on major infrastructure—including transitional to attracting new investment in housing. It also encourages arrangements and a revised timetable—will be published all local authorities and sub-regional partnerships to later in the summer. 41WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 42WS

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS by a lack of clarity on responsibility between commissioners and providers and little or no integration of out-of-hours care with urgent care. Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture The Government are committed to providing universal Science access to high-quality urgent care services 24 hours a day, seven days a week, including out-of-hours services. Our vision for urgent care will be to replace the ad hoc The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for unco-ordinated system that has developed in England Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): over the last 13 years. The 2009-10 Annual Report and Accounts for the Centre We will help the public to better understand what for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science urgent care services are available to them by improving was laid before Parliament today. information to support choice and accountability and introducing a new single telephone number to provide consistent clinical assessment at point of contact and FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE direct patients to the right service, first time. The proposed new NHS Commissioning Board will also have a role in European Union: Explanatory Memoranda ensuring that those commissioning out-of-hours services 9June2010-9July2010 ensure that contracts with out-of-hours providers detail rigorous standards in respect of the recruitment, induction The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): Further and training that doctors should receive and that there to my written ministerial statement of 21 June, Official is more effective contract monitoring. Report, columns 4-5WS. In the interest of the House and on behalf of Government I am depositing in the HOME DEPARTMENT Library a full list of explanatory memoranda submitted by the Government from 9 June to 9 July. The House of Immigration Rules Commons European Scrutiny Committee has yet to be established and has not met during this period. Meetings The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): On of the Lords Select Committee on the European Union 28 June 2010 the Home Secretary set out our proposals commenced on 29 June 2010. for an annual limit on the number of non-EU economic I would invite members to examine this list and to migrants admitted into the UK to live and work, including raise any questions of policy in the usual way or via an interim limit for the tier 1 (general) and tier 2 (general) correspondence. It is vital that the House have a chance categories of the points-based-system. to scrutinise the work of Government and to consider On the same date we laid a Statement of Changes in policy. This is particularly true of our EU business. Immigration Rules (HC 59) to implement the interim limit for the tier 1 (general) category, the category for HEALTH highly skilled workers who do not require a job offer before coming to the UK. Use of Overseas Doctors (Out-of-hours Services) In the case of tier 2 (general), the category for sponsored skilled workers with a job offer, the interim limit will be applied by limiting the number of certificates of sponsorship The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): which licensed tier 2 (general) sponsors are authorised I have today laid before Parliament the Government’s to issue. We previously considered that this does not response to the House of Commons Health Committee’s require changes to the immigration rules. However, report “The use of overseas doctors in providing out-of- subsequent legal decisions have made the position less hours services: Fifth Report of Session 2009-10” which clear. For the avoidance of doubt, I am laying changes was published on 8 April 2010. today which make explicit provision for the Secretary of This Government are committed to ensuring that State to limit both the number of certificates of sponsorship foreign healthcare professionals are not allowed to work that may be assigned to points based system sponsors in the national health service unless they have proven overall during any particular period, and the number of their competence and language skills, and we are working certificates of sponsorship that may be assigned to with the General Medical Council and others to explore individual sponsors. a number of options to put a stop to foreign doctors As the Home Secretary set out in her statement on slipping through the net. 28 June 2010, the total number of certificates of sponsorship In particular, we plan to explore how the proposed that sponsors are authorised to issue under tier 2 (general) NHS Commissioning Board could oversee a more effective will be set at a level that achieves a reduction of 1,300 in system for undertaking checks on language knowledge the number of migrants admitted under this category of primary care practitioners to address the historic in the equivalent period a year previously. The tier 2 lack of consistency in the application of checks by interim limit will not apply to intra-company transferees, primary care trusts. ministers of religion or to elite sportspersons, nor will it The Government also share the concerns raised by apply to dependants of tier 2 migrants. the Committee that since 2004 there have been serious The UK Border Agency’s sponsor management team failures in out-of-hours services, both on the part of the has already contacted sponsors in connection with the Government of the day to secure good value for money implementation of this interim limit, and will be writing from the 2004 reforms and on the part of some primary to each sponsor individually to advise them of how the care trusts to monitor the quality of out-of-hours services interim limit affects their allocation of certificates of effectively since then. This situation has been compounded sponsorship. 43WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 44WS

TRANSPORT every 12 months until the completion of the construction of Crossrail, setting out information about the project’s funding and finances. Crossrail: Annual Update In line with this commitment, I am therefore publishing this statement within 12 months of the previous statement, The Minister of State, Department for Transport which was published on 16 July 2009, and set out below (Mrs Theresa Villiers): During the passage of the Crossrail the information required to fulfil the commitment to Act through Parliament, a commitment was given to Parliament: Parliament that a statement would be published at least

Total funding amounts provided to Crossrail Limited by the Department for Transport and TfL in relation to the £773,769,000 construction of Crossrail to the end of the period (22 July 2008 to 29 May 2010) Expenditure incurred (including committed spend not yet paid out) by Crossrail Limited in relation to the construction £963,976,000 of Crossrail in the period (31 May 2009 to 29 May 2010) (excluding recoverable VAT on land and property purchases) Total expenditure incurred (including committed spend not yet paid out) by Crossrail Limited in relation to the £1,160,779,000 construction of Crossrail to the end of the period (22 July 2008 to 29 May 2010) (excluding recoverable VAT on land and property purchases) The amounts realised by the disposal of any land or property for the purposes of the construction of Crossrail by the Nil Secretary of State, TfL or Crossrail Limited in the period covered by the statement

The numbers above are drawn from Crossrail Limited’s State for Work and Pensions on the Social Fund 2009-10 accounts. The expenditure incurred amount includes and the Social Fund Commissioner’s annual report both committed spend that has not yet been paid out 2009-10. and monies already paid out in the relevant periods. Crossrail will support economic growth for London and the UK, and, as the coalition agreement made The Secretary of State’s annual report on the Social clear, is supported by Government. Recent work to Fund for 2009-10 was published today and has been update the business case indicates that the project will laid before Parliament. Copies are available in the Vote generate high value for money. Office and the Printed Paper Office. At this relatively early stage in the project, with several of the main construction contracts currently out The report records that total gross expenditure in to tender, Crossrail Limited continues to forecast a 2009-10, excluding winter fuel payments, was over range of possible out-turn costs which indicate that the £1.3 billion. This figure included over 263,000 non-repayable project can be delivered within the available funding. To community care grants and almost 4 million interest-free ensure that these costs remain affordable and that every loans together worth £850 million. Also, cold weather pound spent on Crossrail offers value for money, Crossrail payments worth £290 million, funeral payments worth Limited are engaged in an ongoing programme of value £47 million and sure start maternity grants worth engineering, risk avoidance and mitigation and indirect £139 million were paid. cost reduction. I expect this work to report later in the year. In addition an estimated 9.1 million households benefited WORK AND PENSIONS from a winter fuel payment at an estimated cost of around £2.7 billion. Social Fund Reports (2009-10)

The Minister of State, Department for Work and The Social Fund Commissioner’s report has also Pensions (Steve Webb): I am pleased to announce the been published today and copies are available in the publication of the annual report by the Secretary of Libraries of both Houses.

815W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 816W

a share of the costs based on the number of our Written Answers to workstations provided. The costs are highlighted in the following table: Questions Expenditure (£)

Thursday 15 July 2010 2000-01 46,770 2001-02 77,600 2002-03 76,242 2003-04 75,699 SCOTLAND 2004-05 68,551 2005-06 66,289 Departmental Civil Servants 2006-07 106,193 2007-08 115,073 Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 114,868 Scotland how many employees of his Department attended 2009-10 108,942 Civil Service Live in (a) 2008, (b) 2009 and (c) 2010; Information relating to 1999-2000 is not available. and what estimate he has made of the (i) employee Departmental Meetings working hours taken up by and (ii) cost to his Department of such attendance in each such year. [9057] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what meetings he had with each ministerial David Mundell: No Scotland Office staff attended colleague between 30 May and 22 June 2010; and what Civil Service Live in 2008, 2009 or 2010. matters were discussed at each such meeting. [8771] Departmental ICT Michael Moore: Since being appointed, I have had many meetings with ministerial colleagues at which I Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for have discussed a wide range of issues. Scotland how much his Department spent on Departmental Utilities information and communication technology in each year since 1997. [7345] Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how much his Department spent on (a) David Mundell: The Scotland Office shares an electricity, (b) water, (c) heating and (d) telephone information technology system (SCOTS) with the Scottish services in each year since 1997. [7596] Government, who are responsible for the development, administration and maintenance of the system, including David Mundell: The Scotland Office was established the provision of hardware and software. The Scotland on 1 July 1999. Since that date, the following expenditure Office and Office of the Advocate-General are charged has been incurred:

£ Electricity Water Gas (heating) Telephone services

1999-20001 11,855 1,067 43,024 20,164 2000-01 22,807 3,656 78,224 103,492 2001-02 19,526 4,221 94,866 99,709 2002-03 28,439 7,018 88,244 90,379 2003-04 23,703 11,699 88,085 94,944 2004-05 23,372 13,666 96,362 80,484 2005-06 21,650 9,867 106,883 86,560 2006-07 36,488 14,140 105,968 76,286 2007-08 26,481 14,216 78,669 82,793 2008-09 30,728 11,582 100,262 90,785 2009-10 33,809 13,694 63,057 108,716 1 Part year.

Economic Situation: Scotland during this time I received many representations with regard to the forthcoming Budget. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland which organisations he met between 30 May Merchant Shipping and 22 June 2010 to discuss the (a) state of the economy in Scotland and (b) effects on Scotland of Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for the June 2010 Budget. [8772] Scotland what recent discussions he has had with Scottish Executive Ministers and ministerial colleagues Michael Moore: In the run-up to the Budget on 22 on the date for the coming into force of the Merchant June I had numerous discussions with a wide range of Shipping (Ship-to-Ship Transfers) Regulations 2010. organisations on the state of the Scottish economy and [8546] 817W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 818W

Michael Moore: My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Dr Fox: Developing the Afghan National Police (ANP) Under-Secretary of State for Transport made a written is an essential part of the counter-insurgency strategy in ministerial statement on 8 July 2010, Official Report, Afghanistan, and the UK contribution to developing column 14WS, in which he explained the reasons why the ANP is part of a wider international effort. Ultimately, the Government have decided to defer the Merchant building the capacity of the ANP will allow the Afghan Shipping (Ship-to-Ship transfers) Regulations 2010 coming Government to take responsibility for security and allow into force pending their review. He also wrote to the us to bring UK troops home. Scottish Government, to all interested MPs and relevant Around 175 UK military personnel provide support industry and environmental bodies to advise them of to the development of the ANP in three main ways: the contents of the Statement. through embedding staff officers in NATO Training Trade Unions: Shipbuilding Mission Afghanistan (NTM-A) Headquarters; by providing trainers and support to NTM-A training institutions; Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for and, through the training and partnering of deployed Scotland when he last met trades union representatives ANP in Helmand province. In addition to this, large of employees at (a) Rosyth and (b) Clyde shipyards to numbers of UK military work with the ANP on a day discuss the shipbuilding industry in Scotland. [8773] to day basis as a consequence of embedded partnering. The UK has around 35 civilian policing experts training Michael Moore: I recognise the importance of the and mentoring the ANP who serve in the EU Policing shipbuilding industry to Scotland’s economy. I will Mission, NTM-A institutions, and in Helmand Province. meet Babcock management and union representatives in Rosyth later this month. It is also my intention to Armed Forces: Families visit BVT of the Clyde in the near future. Voting Systems: Scotland Mrs Grant: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what counselling, advice and support services his Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Department provides for families of military Scotland (1) when and by what means he informed (a) personnel; and if he will make a statement. [8569] the First Minister, (b) the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament, (c) the Electoral Commission in Mr Robathan: Counselling, advice and support services Scotland and (d) electoral returning officers in are an important area, and such support can be valuable Scotland of the Government’s proposals to hold a to bereaved families. The Ministry of Defence (MOD) referendum on the alternative vote system on 5 May has been working with the national bereavement charity 2011; [7837] CRUSE and the Department of Health to provide bespoke (2) what consultation he plans to undertake with (a) counselling services for armed forces families, but we the Scottish Executive, (b) the Presiding Officer of the recognise that such counselling is not necessarily best Scottish Parliament, (c) the Electoral Commission in provided by the MOD. We aim to signpost the most Scotland, (d) electoral registration officers in Scotland appropriate counselling services for armed forces families and (e) the public in Scotland on holding of a which are often provided by non-military bereavement referendum on the alternative vote system on 5 May specialists. The three services have funding mechanisms 2011. [8025] in place to allow families to access the most appropriate counselling services once a need has been identified. Michael Moore: It was right that Parliament was Additionally, families’ activity breaks are being run informed of our intentions first and therefore following in conjunction with the Youth Hostels Association to the Deputy Prime Minister’s statement on 5 July, I provide breaks for bereaved families where informal wrote to the First Minister, the Presiding Officer of the counselling is available for children. Scottish Parliament, other party leaders, and the Scottish Parliament’s independent MSP, informing them that we Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State will be holding a referendum on the alternative vote for Defence what steps he plans to take to support system on 5 May 2011. Holding it on the same day as families of armed forces personnel. [8635] the Scottish Parliament elections will reduce the cost to the taxpayer and make it more convenient for voters. Mr Robathan: There are considerable resources available The Deputy Prime Minister has held discussions with to support service families at the level of the Royal the Electoral Commission on a number of matters Navy Ship, Army Regiment or Royal Air Force station. relating to the referendum, including around the timing. these resources are usually co-ordinated by a dedicated In due course, I will be discussing the arrangements for unit welfare officer who is able to assess what sort of the referendum in Scotland with the Electoral Commission support is required and then make bespoke arrangements in Scotland and Scottish electoral administrators, among for appropriate provision, accessing relevant service, others. local authority or charitable sector specialists where necessary. The resources include: Professional social workers; DEFENCE Station and unit community groups including HIVE information Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations centres; Families Welfare Grant money to support of families of deployed Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for personnel; Defence how many British (a) civilian and (b) military Confidential support lines; personnel are involved with (i) the training of Afghan Families’ federations police and (ii) other work involving the Afghan police. Dedicated support groups for the bereaved (SSAFA-Forces [5200] Help). 819W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 820W

Armed Forces: Health Services year 2009-10, about £3.4 million was spent on such services by the Joint Medical Command. Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Housing Defence how much funding his Department provided for rehabilitation of injured service personnel in (a) Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Northern Ireland, (b) Scotland, (c) Wales and (d) for Defence (1) what steps he plans to take to increase England in the last 12 months. [8710] the level of maintenance and refurbishment of armed forces’ accommodation; [8633] Mr Robathan: The Defence Medical Services manage (2) what plans he has for the construction of new an extensive armed forces rehabilitation network which service accommodation in the UK. [8634] meets a wide range of requirements, including treatment for operational casualties. The network includes primary Mr Robathan: The coalition Government place a care rehabilitation facilities and 13 Regional Rehabilitation high priority on the welfare of service personnel and Units (RRUs) across the UK (plus two in Germany). their families. In the Strategic Defence and Security There is one RRU in Northern Ireland (Aldergrove) Review we will prioritise the needs and accommodation and one in Scotland (Edinburgh); the other 11 are at of defence personnel and their families. locations convenient for centres of major military We will continue to ensure that accommodation is population across England. In addition, we have the maintained to a high standard and improved where Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court possible, including the construction of new or refurbishment in Surrey, where seriously wounded servicemen and of existing accommodation in the UK and elsewhere. women are normally treated following the completion of their secondary care. Armed Forces: Northern Ireland Funding for the treatment of wounded personnel has Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for been, and will continue to be, made available to match Defence how many (a)army,(b) RAF and (c) Royal clinical requirements, including surges in casualty numbers. Navy personnel are from (i) Strangford constituency Our future budgetary plans assume a continuing need and (b) Northern Ireland. [8711] for additional investment in facilities and staff at Headley Court, whose annual running costs in 2009-10 were Mr Robathan: This information is not held in the some £20 million. Responsibility for the individual format requested, however details of those recruited management of the primary care facilities is shared through the Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO) in between the single Service Commands, with oversight Belfast, the Army Career Information Offices (ACIO) from the Joint Medical Command. Owing to the number in Coleraine, Enniskillen, Portadown, and from the of different internal budgets to which costs would be Royal Navy’s Officer Career Liaison Centre, give an attributable, any detailed analysis of local rehabilitation indication of Northern Ireland recruitment into the expenditure would therefore incur disproportionate costs. armed forces in the following table. Likewise, the RRUs operate as lodger units within Please note however that this information will not different military facilities, with a range of funding provide a comprehensive picture of individuals recruited arrangements, and comprehensive financial data is not from Northern Ireland as it does not include those readily available. recruited through AFCOs elsewhere or through other Where an individual requires specialist rehabilitation means, such as the internet. In addition, Army Officer services or equipment that can best be provided by a figures are not provided as these Officers tend to be non-MOD organisation (such as some aspects of recruited through a wider variety of means and any neurological rehabilitation and specialised prosthetics) information provided would not be meaningful in this this will be arranged at additional cost. In the financial context.

FY 2009-10 Officer Careers AFCO Belfast ACIO Coleraine ACIO Enniskillen ACIO Portadown Liaison Centre

Naval Services 45——— 4 Army 140 42 66 68 — RAF26————

Armed Forces: Vocational Guidance Recent analysis by Defence Analytical Services and Advice has estimated the number of veterans in prison Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence establishments in England and Wales to be almost 3% what counselling and advice facilities are available for of the prison population. military personnel during and immediately after service All personnel are entitled to receive some form of to reduce the chances of their entering the criminal resettlement provision. This ranges from a comprehensive justice system. [7866] package of re-training; employment advice; free of charge access to career transition workshops; and access to Mr Robathan: We do not provide counselling and career advisers. Those who serve less than four years advice facilities for military personnel during and receive a mandatory resettlement brief and a one-to-one immediately after service specifically to reduce their resettlement interview within their unit before they discharge. chances of entering the criminal justice system. These cover advice on accessing re-employment services 821W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 822W such as Jobcentre Plus, advice on housing, the assistance Mr Robathan: Members of the reserve forces and available from ex-service welfare organisations and their families receive the same type of support and information about preserved pensions and compensation welfare packages that are provided for regular personnel rights. If, as part of this process, an individual is deemed following overseas deployment. to be vulnerable to social exclusion then some specialist In addition, reservists benefit from legal protection of support is also provided by Service resettlement advisers. their employment under the Reserve Forces (Safeguard Departmental Lost Property of Employment) Act 1985.

Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for JUSTICE Defence what property has been recorded as (a) lost Crime: Voluntary Work and (b) stolen from the Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost Mr Brazier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice of the replacement of that property. [5965] how many convictions for offences relating to (a) financial, (b) physical and (c) sexual abuse, where the Nick Harvey: The requested information is not held offender was not a family member but working in a centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate voluntary capacity with the victim there were between cost. 1995 and 2005. [6517] Ex-Servicemen: West Midlands Mr Blunt: The Court Proceedings Database holds information on defendants proceeded against, found Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence guilty and sentenced for criminal offences in England how many veterans’ lapel badges have been issued to and Wales. These data include information on the age former members of the armed forces resident in (a) the of the defendant, their gender, the police force area and West Midlands, (b) Dudley borough and (c) Dudley court where proceedings took place as well as the specific North constituency. [8222] offence and statute for the offence. Other than where specified in the statute information held centrally does Mr Robathan: The information requested is not held not identify a defendant’s employment status or whether in the format required and could be provided only at the defendant was working in a voluntary capacity. disproportionate cost. Critchley: Gary However, as of 9 July 2010, 793,479 veterans’ lapel badges have been issued to former members of the Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for armed forces and their entitled dependents since its Justice pursuant to the answer of 1 July 2010, Official introduction on 10 April 2004. Report, columns 614-5W, on Gary Critchley, whether Red Arrows Gary Critchley’s detention under the Mental Health Act 1983 has increased the time he has been required to serve in prison under the life sentence he received for Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for murder. [8364] Defence what the running costs, excluding asset depreciation, of the Red Arrows were in the last 12 Mr Blunt: As I advised in my reply of 1 July, Mr Critchley months for which figures are available; and how much is serving a life sentence for murder. His detention in the Royal Air Force received in (a) sponsorship, (b) hospital under the Mental Health Act 1983 does not appearance fees and (c) other payments in respect of change the position that, as a mandatory life sentence the Red Arrows in that period. [3924] prisoner, his re-release on licence is a matter for the Parole Board. The board will not consider his case Nick Harvey: Officials are collating the information while his detention in hospital for treatment remains requested. I will write to the hon. Member when this necessary. He can be remitted to prison at any time if work is complete and place a copy of the letter in the his responsible clinician advises that his detention in Library of the House. hospital is no longer necessary. Alternatively, he has the Substantive answer from Nick Harvey to Mike Hancock: right to have his case reviewed once a year by the I undertook to write to you in answer to your Parliamentary independent First-tier Tribunal (Mental Health). A finding Question on 29 June, (Official Report, column 483W) about the by the tribunal that his detention in hospital for treatment running costs, excluding depreciation, of the Red Arrows for the was no longer necessary would establish his right to last 12 month period for which figures are available and how review by the Parole Board. much the Royal Air Force received in (a) sponsorship (b) appearance fees and (c) other payments in respect of the Red Arrows. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for The running costs (excluding asset depreciation and receipts) Justice pursuant to the answer of 1 July 2010, Official for the Red Arrows for financial year 2009-2010 were £9.35 million. Report, columns 614-5W, on Gary Critchley, whether Over the same period, in respect of the Red Arrows, the RAF Gary Critchley’s detention under the Mental Health received items to the equivalent value of some £85,000 in sponsorship, Act 1983 is related to his conviction for murder. [8365] £425,000 in appearance fees and £14,000 in merchandising Royalties. Mr Blunt: Mr Critchley is serving a mandatory life Reserve Forces sentence following his conviction for murder in May 1981. His transfer to hospital was directed by the Secretary Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for of State in March 2010 under section 47 of the Mental Defence what steps he has taken to ensure that reserve Health Act 1983, which applies to convicted serving soldiers receive the same support as regular soldiers prisoners. But the transfer was directed on the basis of following overseas deployment. [7010] medical evidence that he was mentally disordered to an 823W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 824W extent which justified his detention in hospital for medical (3) if he will review the case of (a) Michael treatment and that appropriate medical treatment was Binnington and (b) Luke Atkinson. [8770] available for him. Mr Blunt: Representations about the imprisonment Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for of Michael Binnington and Luke Atkinson have been Justice pursuant to the answer of 1 July 2010, Official received from the hon. Member for Witham and from Report, columns 614-5W, on Gary Critchley, under others. which section of the Mental Health Act 1983 Gary Michael Binnington and Luke Atkinson were transferred Critchley is being detained; when his detention under from a prison in Cyprus to one in the United Kingdom this section of the Act commenced; and what the dates in order serve their prison sentence here. Transfer took are of any previous detention of Mr Critchley under place in accordance with the provisions of the Council the Mental Health Act 1983 since the date of his of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced conviction for murder. [8431] Persons and the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984. I am satisfied that their detention here is both lawful and Mr Blunt: Mr Critchley is detained in hospital under appropriate. No further review of the case is planned. sections 47 and 49 of the Mental Health Act 1983. His transfer to hospital was directed by the Secretary of Magistrates Courts: Closures State by a warrant dated 8 March 2010. Mr Critchley was admitted to hospital on 17 March 2010. There is no Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice record in the Department of his having previously been what assessment he has made of his programme of detained under the Mental Health Act. closure of magistrates courts on the average time taken for cases before magistrates courts to be completed. Crown Dependency [8422]

Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Djanogly: No estimate has been made of the Justice if he will meet representatives of the effect on average case completion times of the court Government of each Crown Dependency to discuss his estate proposals. Following the public consultation, should Department’s role in their administration before a decision be taken to close a court, the work that would 1 September 2010. [7936] have been heard at that court will be transferred to a nearby court with sufficient capacity to hear that work. Mr Djanogly: My noble Friend the Minister of State I do not, therefore, anticipate there being any significant for Justice (Lord McNally) is the responsible Minister impact on average case completion times. However, my for the day to day relationship between the UK and the Department will monitor this as part of any post- Crown Dependencies, is meeting the Chief Minister of implementation assessment of the programme. Guernsey on 13 July and the Chief Minister of the Isle Courtroom utilisation, which is the time a courtroom ofManon19July. is used against the hours that a courtroom is available My noble Friend has also written to the Government for use, currently averages 64% across the magistrates of each Crown Dependency so that arrangements can courts. The Government’s aim is to increase utilisation be made for future meetings and visits. All meetings and of courtroom time to at least 80%. It is estimated that visits will cover a broad range of business. the proposals we are consulting on would result in a national utilisation rate in the magistrates courts of European Court of Human Rights around 80%.

Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what the Government’s policy is on implementing what assessment he has made of the likely effects of the decisions of the European Court of Human Rights closure of magistrates courts under his recently applicable to the UK. [7799] announced programme on the number of people employed in magistrates courts. [8423] Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government are committed Mr Djanogly: The proposals on the court estate are to the European Convention on Human Rights and its currently out to public consultation and until responses obligations under that convention. This includes the to the consultation have been considered in full, no decision obligation to implement adverse judgments against the on court closures will be taken. As it is not known United Kingdom. The Government will set out more whether and which courts will close, no assessment has detail on this subject when they respond to the report been made of the effect on staffing numbers. “Enhancing Parliament’s role in relation to human rights Implementation planning will only occur once decisions judgments”, the Fifteenth Report of last Session of the have been taken and staff redeployment will form part Joint Committee on Human Rights. of that planning. My Department will continue to discuss Extradition: Cyprus the proposals with staff and with the trade unions. Offences Against Children Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) what recent representations he has received on the Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for imprisonment of Michael Binnington at Edmunds Hill Justice what recent assessment he has made of the Prison; and if he will make a statement; [8768] effectiveness of the Multi-Agency Public Protection (2) what recent representations he has received on Arrangements in identifying and assessing sex offenders the imprisonment of Luke Atkinson at Wandsworth who commit sexual crimes against children overseas. Prison; and if he will make a statement; [8769] [8566] 825W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 826W

Mr Blunt: Following identification, offenders who Mr Blunt: The available information has been provided reside in England and Wales and who commit crimes in the following tables. against children overseas are brought into the Multi Agency Public Protection Arrangements (MAPPA). These The most recent three years for which data are available offenders may be identified by: is 2006-08. Data for 2009 will become available when a notification from the country where they have been convicted “Sentencing Statistics 2009” is published later in the of sexual offences against children; or year. inquiries made by the United Kingdom Central Authority Sentencing is a matter for the courts, taking account (UKCA); or of the circumstances of each case. The maximum penalty a self declaration by the offender on return to the UK. for dealing in class C drugs is 14 years’ imprisonment Once an offender has been identified as having committed and the sentences imposed show that the courts have a relevant offence abroad, a certified copy of conviction sufficient powers to deal with this offence. All sentences will be obtained from the court of the country where are served in full. the offence took place. Police will complete a Notification Offenders sentenced for dealing1 in ketamine and other class C drugs2, 2006-08 Order (NO) and place this before the magistrates court which will sanction the correct period for which the 2006 2007 2008 offender will be subject to the notification requirements, Ketamine in accordance with section 97 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Discharge 0 0 0 Under the notification requirements the offender must Fine 1 3 1 provide: Community sentence 1 4 11 name, address, date of birth and national insurance number; Suspended sentence 1 0 1 a set of fingerprints; Immediate custody 1 0 3 photographs of face and any other identifying features such as tattoos; Otherwise dealt with 0 0 1 give details that will allow accurate risk assessment to be Total sentenced 4 7 17 carried out (who they live with, or if they have access to children); notification of foreign travel; and Other class C any changes to the name or address within three days of the Discharge 83 61 50 change. Fine 75 92 85 Police may apply to the court for a NO in relation to offenders living in, or intending to come to, the United Community sentence 712 685 838 Kingdom. Suspended sentence 486 674 816 The penalty for breach of a notification requirement Immediate custody 678 686 756 is up to five years’ imprisonment. Otherwise dealt with 21 50 25

Becoming subject to the notification requirements Total sentenced 2,055 2,248 2,570 brings the offender into MAPPA. Within MAPPA, Lengths of custodial sentences handed down for dealing1 in ketamine and other information about the offender will be shared between 2 relevant agencies in order to assess and then manage the class C drugs , 2006-08 risk presented by the offender. It is in the interests of 2006 2007 2008 public protection that the relevant agencies are required Ketamine to work together within a statutory framework to assess Up to three months 0 0 0 and manage the risks presented by offenders who have Over3upto6 1 0 0 committed sexual offences against children, either overseas Over6upto12 0 0 0 or in the United Kingdom. 12 months 0 0 0 Where it is considered necessary to protect children Over 12 up to 18 0 0 1 from the risk of future sexual harm, the police may Over 18 up to 3 years 0 0 1 apply to the court for a Foreign Travel Order (FTO) Over 3 less than 4 0 0 0 Where granted by the court, this order prevents offenders 4 years 0 0 1 with convictions for sexual offences against children Over 4 including 5 0 0 0 from travelling abroad. The penalty for breach of a Over5upto10years 0 0 0 FTO is up to five years’ imprisonment. Over 10 less than life 0 0 0

Prison Sentences: Drugs Other class C Up to three months 49 52 53 Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Over 3 up to 6 months 147 132 142 Justice how many persons were sentenced for offences Over 6 up to 12 months 128 140 151 related to dealing in (a) ketamine and (b) other class 12 months 94 98 101 C drugs in each of the last three years; what proportion Over 12 up to 13 months 108 116 147 of such persons given a custodial sentence served (i) the Over 18 months up to 3 years 110 118 111 whole sentence, (ii) more than half the sentence and Over 3 less than 4 years 13 5 14 (iii) less than half the sentence; and what assessment he 4 years 8 9 4 has made of the effect of sentencing policy on trends in Over 4 including 5 years 6 4 14 dealing in such substances. [8140] Over5upto10years 15 12 16 827W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 828W

Lengths of custodial sentences handed down for dealing1 in ketamine and other CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT class C drugs2, 2006-08 2006 2007 2008 Arts: Employment Over 10 years less than 003 indeterminate Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Includes supply or offering to supply and possession with intent to supply. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what his most 2 Includes GHB, anabolic steroids and cannabis (where classified by the sentencing court as a class C offence). recent estimate is of the change in the number of Notes: people employed in the arts sector since the beginning These figures have been drawn from administrative data systems. of the recession. [8780] Although care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording system. Mr Vaizey: No recent estimates have been made as to These data have been taken from the Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings the number of people employed in the arts sector. database. These data are presented on the principal offence basis. Where an offender has been sentenced for more than one offence the principal offence is the one for which the heaviest sentence was imposed. Digital Broadcasting: Radio Where the same sentence has been imposed for two or more offences the principal offence is the one for which the statutory maximum is most severe. Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April. July, and August 2008. Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Source: Olympics, Media and Sport if he will estimate the Justice Statistics—Analytical Services, Ministry of Justice average cost per household, including vehicle ownership, of upgrading radio equipment in preparation for the Sark: Politics and Government proposed changeover from analogue to digital radio in (a) the UK, (b) London and (c) Ealing Central and Mr Whittingdale: To ask the Secretary of State for Acton constituency. [8160] Justice what steps his Department is taking to have Sark recognised as an independent state by the United Mr Vaizey [holding answer 14 July 2010]: The Nations; and if he will make a statement. [7911] Government have not previously made an estimate of the average costs per household of a digital radio switchover. Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice is not taking On 8 July I announced the Digital Radio Action any steps to have Sark recognised as an independent Plan, which outlines the information the Government state by the United Nations. will need in order to make a well-informed decision on whether to proceed with a radio switchover. A key Unpaid Fines: Staffordshire aspect of the plan will include a detailed impact assessment of the proposed costs, including household and vehicle Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for conversion, and benefits of a digital radio switchover Justice how many court fines of what total monetary programme. value were outstanding in Staffordshire on 31 March Mass Media: Reviews 2010. [7753]

Mr Djanogly: The total number of fine accounts Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for outstanding in Staffordshire as at 31 March 2010 was Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what the terms of 23,525. These accounts had a total value outstanding of reference are of the Shott review of local media £11,214,527. Within the 2009-10 financial year £6,663,844 ownership rules; and how much will be spent on the was collected in financial penalties in the Staffordshire review. [8009] area. Mr Vaizey: Nicholas Shott has been asked to set out Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for how the Government can maximise the potential for Justice how many fines of what total monetary value local television to emerge in the UK and have a clear were written off by HM Courts Service in Staffordshire view of the value for delivering local TV from the point of potential investors. in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10. [7754] This may include: Mr Djanogly: The value of financial penalties written the conditions necessary to make local television commercially off by HMCS in the previous three years is set out in the viable; following table: the scope of revenue opportunities from advertising or other sources; £ which barriers should be reformed/removed to nurture a new Total Administratively Legally Total generation of profitable local media companies; and imposed cancelled cancelled cancelled how existing industry players might help achieve this. 2007-08 8,766,857 747,836 789,325 1,537,161 Mr Shott is undertaking this work pro bono. 2008-09 8,698,559 1,039,354 1,193,997 2,233,351 I am arranging for a copy of the letter setting out the 2009-10 8,136,476 683,639 1,126,981 1,810,620 above terms to be placed in the Library of the House.

HMCS systems do not identify the number of accounts Music: Finance that have been written off only the value. The number of accounts could be provided only at disproportionate Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for cost as this would require a manual search of all fine Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the accounts for the past three years to identify how many answer of 21 June 2010, Official Report, columns 16-17W, had been written off. on music, what the 14 community music rehearsal spaces 829W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 830W are; how much funding his Department plans to allocate Departmental Buildings to them; and over what period that funding will be allocated. [7951] Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much (a) his Department and its Mr Vaizey: The spaces included in this scheme will be predecessors and (b) its agencies and non-departmental in Liverpool, Bristol (two spaces), Cornwall, Manchester, public bodies spent on office refurbishment in each year North and West Norfolk, Washington, Hastings, Coventry, since 1997. [7355] Nottingham, Birmingham (two spaces), and Rotherham. Grants totalling £440,064 were made to the relevant Norman Baker: The information requested can be local authorities to assist with their establishment over provided only at disproportionate cost. the two financial years ending March 2010. Departmental Conferences Only three of the spaces (Liverpool, Bristol and Cornwall) are currently open, with the rest due to come on stream before the end of this year. Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what estimate he has made of the expenditure by his Department and its predecessors on (a) organising and (b) attending conferences in each year since 1997. TRANSPORT [6136]

Airports: Security Norman Baker: The information requested is not available centrally and can be provided only at Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for disproportionate cost. Transport at which airports in the UK body scanners are used; what plans he has for their use in the future at Departmental Electronic Equipment those and other airports; and if he will make a statement. [7019] Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much (a) his Department and its Mrs Villiers: Security scanners are currently installed predecessors and (b) its agencies and non-departmental at Heathrow, Manchester and Gatwick airports. public bodies spent on televisions in each year since A public consultation on a code of practice for the 1997. [7505] use of security scanners at UK airports was launched on 29 March, and the closing date has been extended to Norman Baker: The breakdown requested is not held 19 July to give plenty of time for all interested parties to centrally and to provide it would incur disproportionate respond. We will consider all the responses to the cost. consultation carefully before making decisions about how security scanners should be deployed in future. Departmental Legal Costs

Bus Services: Concessions Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much (a) his Department and its Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for predecessors and (b) its agencies and non-departmental Transport whether his Department has carried out an public bodies spent on legal advice in each year since analysis of reductions in expenditure from reduced 1997. [7568] usage of national concessionary bus passes. [6895] Norman Baker: The Department for Transport was Norman Baker: The Department for Transport routinely formed in May 2002 and comprises seven agencies as carries out a range of analysis on various scenarios well as sponsoring 10 Executive and advisory non- relating to transport expenditure, including that on departmental public bodies. It would not be possible to concessionary fares. The Department is not projecting a obtain the information required without incurring a reduction in the number of trips that individual disproportionate cost concessionaries make with their national bus passes. Departmental Training Coventry-Nuneaton Railway Line Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Transport how much (a) his Department and its for Transport what steps he plans to take in support of predecessors and (b) its agencies and non-departmental the NUCKLE project in the West Midlands. [2775] public bodies spent on employee away days in each year since 1997. [7317] Mrs Villiers [holding answer 17 June 2010]: The Government’s key priority at present is to tackle the Norman Baker: The information requested can be budget deficit. In his written ministerial statement to provided only at disproportionate cost due to this the House on 10 June 2010, Official Report, column information not being held centrally. 35WS, “Transport: Local Authority Major Schemes”, the Secretary of State for Transport made clear that the Departmental Visual Arts Department for Transport will not be in a position to identify which major investments might be supported, Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for including the Coventry-Nuneaton project, until the Transport how much his Department has spent on Government’s spending review is concluded in the autumn. works of art since 2005. [6067] 831W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 832W

Norman Baker: Between 2005 and 12 May 2010 the local authority major schemes, the Secretary of State Department for Transport spent £2,472.22 on works of for Transport made it clear that the Department will art. This included the purchase of prints, posters and not be able to identify those major investments that can associated equipment such as frames. be supported until the conclusion of the Government’s Department for Transport spend on works of art since 2005 spending review in the autumn. £ Therefore at this time I cannot provide any assurances Total on funding for the Hucknall Inner Relief Road scheme. Artwork/posters Location Cost cost Railways: Fares 2005-06 7 prints1 and frames Rail Accident 300.00 300.00 Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Investigation Branch Transport (1) if he will bring forward proposals to reduce passenger fares through changes to franchise agreements with train operating companies; [4425] 2008-09 (2) if he will instruct the Office for Rail Regulation 3 framed posters DfT—Ministerial 93.69 774.75 Suite each to undertake a review of the affordability of (a) walk-on fares and (b) advanced purchase national rail 1 framed poster DfT—Ministerial 131.75 131.75 Suite fares. [4426] 3 frames DfT—Ministerial 85 each 255.10 Suite Mrs Villiers: The Government have pledged to put fairness at the heart of their approach to rail fares. The 2009-10 level of rail fares will be considered as part of the overall spending review that the Government are 1 1 transport poster Not framed yet 2.89 2.89 conducting. The Rail Value for Money Study, jointly 1 transport poster1 Not framed yet 7.78 7.78 sponsored by the Office of Rail Regulation (being carried 1 transport poster1 Not framed yet 9.74 9.74 out by Sir Roy McNulty), and the Association of Train 1 transport poster1 Not framed yet 26.48 26.48 Operating Companies’ review of fares are expected to The following three — — 165.95 provide valuable input going forward in the medium 1 posters: Imperial term. Airways —Flying Boat—poster Early Electric Car Speed Limits: Urban Areas Advertisement for Babcock Electric Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Victoria Phaeton, c.1907 Cunard Line, if he will publish each representation he has received RMS, Aquitania on his policy on the speed limit in urban areas. [5867] Framework cost for DfT—Ministerial — 373.80 these prints Suite Mike Penning: The Department for Transport has Frames for posters DfT—Ministerial — 39.98 received no representations relating to the urban speed Suite limit. All speed limits are kept under constant review to Posters and frames for DfT—Ministerial — 384.00 ensure they remain appropriate. There are no current PC office Suite plans to change the default urban 30 mph speed limit. 2,472.22 To do so would have significant resource implications 1 These are unlimited prints. and place additional burdens on local authorities. Local No works of art have been purchased since 12 May authorities already have the power to implement 20 2010. The Department now has a policy of obtaining mph limits and zones where they decide it is appropriate. works of art only from the Government Art Collection at no cost to the public purse.

Government Car and Despatch Agency WALES Departmental Buildings Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many leased cars the Government Car Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for and Despatch Agency has returned since 6 May 2010. Wales how much her Department spent on office [8269] refurbishment in each year since 1997. [7364] Mike Penning: The Government Car and Despatch Mr David Jones: The Wales Office was established in Agency has returned two leased cars since 6 May 2010. July 1999, and there were no refurbishments prior to 2007-08. Hucknall Inner Relief Road In 2007-08 the Office spent £63,500 on a refurbishment project to replace carpets, furniture and curtains, including Mr Spencer: To ask the Secretary of State for bomb blast curtains. Transport what plans he has for the future funding of the Hucknall Inner Relief Road. [7089] In 2008-09 there was no expenditure on refurbishment. In 2009-10 £8,186 was spent on new furniture for Norman Baker: In his written ministerial statement office desks and to provide a dedicated video conference on 10 June 2010, Official Report, column 35WS, regarding facility which links the London and Cardiff offices. 833W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 834W

Departmental Legal Costs Figures since 1997 are not separately identified in the Treasury’s Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses. The Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Welsh housing revenue account surplus in 2008-09 was Wales how much her Department spent on legal advice £91 million. in each year since 1997. [7578]

Mr David Jones: The Wales Office was established in HOME DEPARTMENT July 1999. Records show that the Wales Office has spent the following amounts on external legal advice, all of British Crime Survey which has come from the Treasury Solicitor. Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the £ Home Department (1) what discussions she has had with the UK Statistics Authority on the accuracy of 2001-02 5,509.50 results from the British Crime Survey; and what the 2002-03 4,765.00 outcomes of those discussions were; [7084] 2003-04 909.00 2004-05 7,103.19 (2) when she expects her Department to publish the 2005-06 2,140.40 outcomes of its review of the British Crime Survey. [7086] 2006-07 9,275.00 2007-08 4,850.25 Mrs May [holding answer 12 July 2010]: I met with 2008-09 3,067.90 Sir Michael Scholar, chair of the UK Statistics Authority, 2009-10 43,677.58 on Wednesday 7 July to discuss the recommendations Records for the period before 2001-02 are not held in contained within the authority’s recent report, ’Overcoming the Wales Office. Barriers to Trust in Crime Statistics’. We had a wide-ranging discussion about crime statistics Departmental Official Cars and I am considering the recommendations in the UK Statistics Authority report including those relevant to Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales the British Crime Survey. The Home Office will respond what her estimate is of the mileage travelled by each to the recommendations in due course. Minister in her Department in a Government car in Community Policing (a) May and (b) June 2010. [8315]

Mr David Jones: I refer the hon. Member to the Alan Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the answer provided by the Parliamentary Under-Secretary Home Department what her policy is on the future of of State for Transport on 13 July 2010, Official Report, neighbourhood policing. [7087] column 624W. Mrs May [holding answer 12 July 2010]: The Fabian Plant: Closures Government support neighbourhood policing and are committed to ensuring that all communities receive a Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if high quality policing service that meets local priorities. she will hold discussions with the Linamar The programme set out by the coalition explains our Corporation over the proposed closure of its plant at approach to policing, replacing bureaucratic accountability Fabian Way near Swansea; and if she will make a with democratic authority and ensuring police forces statement. [7795] are better able to deal with the crime and antisocial behaviour that blights people’s lives. This includes: Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State has already directly elected individuals to make the police more accountable spoken with management at Linamar and with the hon. reducing bureaucracy that hinders the police, and introducing Member himself to express concern at the proposed better technology closure of the factory and to ensure that continued publishing crime maps showing the public what is happening updates are given to my office. on their streets, and Jobcentre Plus will also offer a Rapid Response Service regular beat meetings allowing residents to hold the police to to the workers at Linamar to ensure they receive all the account. help and support that they need. I understand as well We will consider how neighbourhood policing—working that Careers Wales have already visited the plant to with local government and other local partners—can make workers there aware of ReAct funding. take forward these aims. Housing Revenue Accounts Crime: Anti-Semitism

Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Wales how much has been returned to the Exchequer in Home Department what steps her Department has payments via the housing revenue account subsidy taken to combat anti-Semitism since January 2010; and scheme by local authorities in Wales in each financial if she will make a statement. [8575] year since 1997; and if she will make a statement. [2530] James Brokenshire: The Government take attacks on the Jewish community very seriously. As part of the Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. 2010 Victims Fund the Community Security Trust secured 835W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 836W funding to improve the reporting of anti-Semitic attacks Entry Clearances: Overseas Students in London and Manchester. This will build on the successful project it ran in North London which was Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for the welcomed by the Jewish Community. The Association Home Department (1) how many illegal migrants identified of Chief Police Officers National Community Tension in the last 12 months, who initially entered the UK Team coordinates a national operation to ensure security through the student visa system, had attained qualifications and reassure Jewish communities during high holy days. to the equivalent of National Qualifications Framework level 3 and above; [5124] Criminal Records: Vetting (2) how many illegal migrants identified in the last 12 months had initially entered the UK through the Mr Brazier: To ask the Secretary of State for the student visa system and had as their country of origin Home Department how many people have been (a) Japan, (b) South Korea, (c) Taiwan, (d) Saudi prevented from taking up posts involving contact with Arabia, (e) Brazil, (f) Mexico, (g) Turkey and (h) vulnerable persons as a result of information disclosed Colombia; [5125] in a Criminal Records Bureau check in each of the last (3) what proportion of illegal migrants entered the 10 years; and how many of those were (a) volunteers UK (a) without any initial visa, (b) through the and (b) applying for a paid position. [6545] visitor visa system and (c) through the student visa system in each year since 2005; and what the country of Lynne Featherstone: Independent research carried out origin of each was. [5126] between 2004 and 2009 demonstrates that the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) is continuing to make a difference Damian Green: The information requested could be to the protection of children and the vulnerable. obtained only at disproportionate cost as it would require Ultimately it is for the employer to decide, after full a manual check of individual case records. pre-employment checks in addition to a CRB check Football Banning Orders and making a balanced judgment on the basis of all the information available to them, as to whether an individual Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for job applicant is suitable for a particular position. The the Home Department how many football banning CRB is not advised of the outcome of the recruiting orders have been issued under the Football (Disorder) decision and neither the CRB nor the Home Office has Act 2000 in each year since 2005. [8565] any influence over this decision. From the results of the independent research it is James Brokenshire: The data requested are gathered estimated that around 130,000 unsuitable people have and reported in accordance with the period of a football been prevented from gaining access to children or the season rather than calendar year. The following table vulnerable, as a direct result of CRB checks in the past provides the number of football banning orders imposed six years: during each football season since 2005-06. Football 20,000 in 2004 (out of 2.6 million checks) banning order and football-related arrest statistics for 2009-10 season will be published later this year. 25,000 in 2005 (out of 2.7 million checks) 15,000 in 2006 (out of 3.2 million checks) Football banning orders issued 20,000 in 2007 (out of 3.3 million checks) Football season Number 18,000 in 2008 (out of 3.7 million checks) 2005-06 995 33,000 in 2009 (out of 4.2 million checks). 2006-07 644 These figures are not broken down by applications 2007-08 1,048 for positions working solely with children or vulnerable 2008-09 956 adults or by paid or voluntary positions. Forensic Science: DNA The Home Office is committed to reviewing the criminal records regime. The terms of reference for the review Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for the are currently under consideration and further Home Department with reference to the written ministerial announcements will be made in due course. statement of 22 February 2007, Official Report, column 61WS, on the Forensic Science Service, when the Forensic Departmental Public Expenditure Science Service plans to report to her Department on the use of low copy number DNA. [8144] Yvette Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether equality impact James Brokenshire: The Forensic Science Service has assessments will be used in determining the areas of conducted its own independently led investigation into her Department’s budget in respect of which spending the circumstances of its use, between December 1999 will be reduced. [7902] and September 2005 of low copy number DNA. The report, by Mark Addison, was completed in May 2007. Mrs May [holding answer 13 July 2010]: My Department In April 2008, the Home Office sponsored its own will ensure the relevant equality considerations are taken review, led by Professor Brian Caddy, into the Science into account when assessing policy options in the context of Low Template DNA Analysis. Lastly the written of its departmental savings, in compliance with our ministerial statement of 22 February 2007, Official obligations under the gender, race and disability duties Report, column 61WS, announced a review by the set out in the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, the Race Association of Chief Police Officers into the cases in Relations Act 1976, and the Disability Discrimination which the low copy DNA technique, used by the Forensic Act 1995. Science Service, had been employed. 837W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 838W

My predecessor asked the Association of Chief Police Fraud: Credit Cards Officers and the Forensic Science Service to work together to produce a composite report. Discussions on some Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for details are in their concluding stages, after which the the Home Department what steps her Department is report will be formally presented to the Department, taking to reduce credit card fraud. [8868] and will be laid in the Libraries of the Houses. Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: Figures published by the UK Home Department what discussions she has had with Cards Association in March this year show that credit the Forensic Science Service on their past use of low card fraud fell by 28% to £404.3 million in 2009 from copy number DNA; and if she will make a statement. £609.9 million in 2008. The Home Office will continue [8088] to work with our partners in the industry and law enforcement who work in the field of technical James Brokenshire: Since taking office, I have had no improvements and intelligence gathering that are crucial discussions with the Forensic Science Service on their to helping prevent credit card fraud. past use of low copy number DNA. Immigration Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what (a) representations she has received and (b) research she has commissioned on the Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for use of low copy number DNA by the Forensic Science the Home Department whether she expects to reach a decision on the application for indefinite leave to Service; and if she will make a statement. [8090] remain submitted by Mrs Majeedan Begum from James Brokenshire: Since taking office, I have received Edinburgh North and Leith constituency. [8550] no representations on the use of low copy number DNA by the Forensic Science Service, nor have I Damian Green: I cannot comment on individual cases commissioned any research. and the UK Border Agency have written to the hon. Forgery: Coinage Member on this matter on 25 June 2010. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill the Home Department how many people were convicted for offences related to counterfeiting coins in Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for the each year since 1997. [8796] Home Department which health organisations her Department plans to consult on the proposals on the James Brokenshire: Information provided by the Ministry cost of alcohol to be included in the Police Reform and of Justice on the number of persons found guilty for Social Responsibility Bill. [8876] “Making counterfeit coin or note” under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981, section 14, England and Wales 1997 to 2008 (latest available) can be viewed in the table. James Brokenshire: The Home Office plans to consult with the following health organisations on the proposals Court proceedings data for 2009 are planned for on the cost of alcohol planned to be included in the publication on 21 October 2010. Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill: the National Number of persons convicted at all courts for offences relating to counterfeiting Institute of Clinical Excellence, the British Medical coins in England and Wales, 1997 to 20081, 2, 3, 4 Association, Alcohol Concern, the Royal College of Found guilty Physicians, the Royal College of General Practitioners, 1997 14 the Alcohol Health Alliance, the British Liver Trust, 1998 17 and local/regional representatives of primary care trusts 1999 18 and strategic health authorities. 2000 19 2001 15 Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2002 11 Home Department what discussions she has had with 2003 6 the Secretary of State for Health on the scope of the 2004 11 consultation on the proposals on the cost of alcohol to 2005 14 be included in the Police Reform and Social 2006 13 Responsibility Bill. [8878] 2007 30 2008 13 James Brokenshire: The Secretary of State for the 1 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were Home Department and Secretary of State for Health the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has have ongoing discussions on policy development and been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more specifically the alcohol proposals to be included in the offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill. Officials penalty is the most severe. from both Departments continue to work together to 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted develop and take forward these new measures. from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection Prosecutions: Anti-Semitism processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 3 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July, and August 2008. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the 4 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981 S.14 Offence description: ″Making Home Department how many prosecutions of (a) men counterfeit coin or note″. Source: and (b) women in each age group under the Malicious Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. Communications Act 1988 there have been in each 839W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 840W police force area in each of the last five years; how be viewed in the following table. The Ministry of Justice many of those prosecutions related to anti-Semitic does not centrally hold information that identifies the material; and if she will make a statement. [8574] circumstances of an offence unless the offence is separately specified in law; therefore it is not possible to identify James Brokenshire: The number of defendants proceeded those cases involving the dissemination of anti-Semitic against for offences under the Malicious Communications material. Court proceedings data for 2009 are planned Act 1988, by gender, age group and police force area, for publication on 21 October 2010. England and Wales 2004 to 2008 (latest available) can

Number of defendants proceeded against under the Malicious Communications Act, by gender, age group, and police force area, England and Wales 2004 to 20081,2,3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Police force area Age group Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female

Avon and Somerset 10 to 17 — — —12211—1 18andover—15—6284162 Total—1518495163

Bedfordshire 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover3——————— 2 1 Total3——————— 2 1

Cambridgeshire 10 to 17 —————————— 18 and over — — — — 2 1 1 1 1 — Total———— 2 1 1 1 1—

Cheshire 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover——1—324—51 Total——1—324—51

City of London 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover—————— 1— 2— Total—————— 1— 2—

Cleveland10to17—————————— 18 and over 2 — 1 — 2 — — — — 1 Total2—1—2————1

Cumbria 10 to 17 —————— 1— 1 1 18andover2—124—2131 Total2—124—3142

Derbyshire10to17————— 1———— 18andover——1—2—6151 Total——1—216151

DevonandCornwall10to17——112—21—— 18andover33135—9151 Total33247—11251

Dorset10to17—————— 1——— 18andover——— 1———— 3 2 Total——— 1—— 2— 3 2

Durham10to17—————— 1——— 18andover———— 1— 3 1 4— Total———— 1— 3 1 4—

Essex10to17———— 1——— 2— 18 and over 1 — 4 — 7 — 2 2 6 — Total1—4—8—228— 841W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 842W

Number of defendants proceeded against under the Malicious Communications Act, by gender, age group, and police force area, England and Wales 2004 to 20081,2,3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Police force area Age group Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female

Gloucestershire 10 to 17 —————————— 18 and over 1 — 1 — 1 — 1 — 1 — Total1—1—1—1—1—

Greater Manchester 10 to 17 — — 1 — 1 — 1——— 18andover3—31727252 Total3—41828252

Hampshire 10 to 17 — 1 — — 1 — 1 — 1 1 18andover3—112—7—91 Total31113—8—102

Hertfordshire 10 to 17 — — 1 1 — — 4 — 1 1 18 and over 1 — 3 — 10 1 9 3 16 4 Total 1 — 4 1 10 1 13 3 17 5

Humberside 10 to 17 — — 1 — 1 — ———— 18 and over — — 5 — 3 — 4 — 3 1 Total——6—4—4—31

Kent 10to17—— 1——————— 18 and over 1 — 1 — — 1 2 — 3 1 Total1—2——12—31

Lancashire 10 to 17 — — 1————— 1 1 18andover2——— 2— 6 1 9— Total2—1—2—61101

Leicestershire10to171————————— 18andover217113—1—101 Total317113—1—101

Lincolnshire 10 to 17 ————— 1———— 18 and over 1 — 1 — 5 3 4 1 4 — Total1—1—54414—

Merseyside 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover—————— 5— 1— Total—————— 5— 1—

Metropolitan Police 10 to 17 2 — 1 1 — — 1 — 4 1 18 and over 20 2 16 3 15 — 26 1 41 4 Total22217415—271455

Norfolk10to17—————— 1——— 18andover———— 3——— 1 1 Total———— 3— 1— 1 1

NorthYorkshire10to17—————————— 18andover——————101 4— Total——————101 4—

Northamptonshire 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover— 2—————— 1 1 843W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 844W

Number of defendants proceeded against under the Malicious Communications Act, by gender, age group, and police force area, England and Wales 2004 to 20081,2,3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Police force area Age group Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female

Total— 2—————— 1 1

Northumbria 10 to 17 — — — 1 — — 2 — 2 1 18 and over 2 — 3 — 5 2 10 5 12 2 Total2—3152125143

Nottinghamshire 10 to 17 ———— 3————— 18 and over 3 — 4 — 1 — 4 1 2 — Total3—4—4—412—

South Yorkshire 10 to 17 —————————— 18 and over — — 2 — 1 — 3 — 1 — Total——2—1—3—1—

Staffordshire10to17—————————— 18 and over 3 1 4 — 3 — 3 — 8 — Total314—3—3—8—

Suffolk10to17—— 1——— 2 1 3— 18 and over 3 1 — 1 5 — 3 — 10 3 Total31115—51133

Surrey10to17—————————— 18andover2——— 5— 3— 4 1 Total2——— 5— 3— 4 1

Sussex10to17—————————— 18andover————— 1 1261 Total————— 1 1261

Thames Valley 10 to 17 —————————— 18andover925151627— Total925151627—

Warwickshire 10 to 17 ————— 1—— 1— 18andover———— 2— 2— 2 1 Total————212—31

WestMercia10to17———————— 1— 18 and over 3 1 4 1 — — 9 — 11 2 Total3141——9—122

West Midlands 10 to 17 — — 1——— 1— 2— 18 and over 5 — 5 2 10 2 7 1 13 2 Total5—6210281152

WestYorkshire10to17—————————— 18 and over 1 — — 1 6 — 11 2 7 — Total1—— 1 6—112 7—

Wiltshire 10 to 17 —————— 1— 1— 18 and over — 1 1 — — 1 5 — 2 — Total—11——16—3—

Dyfed-Powys10to17—————— 1— 1— 845W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 846W

Number of defendants proceeded against under the Malicious Communications Act, by gender, age group, and police force area, England and Wales 2004 to 20081,2,3 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Police force area Age group Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female

18andover——2—111—3— Total——2—112—4—

Gwent10to17—————— 1— 2— 18andover——313—5—3— Total——313—6—5—

NorthWales10to17—————————— 18andover1—1—322—5— Total1—1—322—5—

South Wales 10 to 17 1————————— 18andover11111———31 Total21111———31 England and Wales 10 to 17 4195115213237 18 and over 78 16 87 20 144 22 194 33 259 39 Total 82 17 96 25 155 27 215 36 282 46 1 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 3 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July, and August 2008. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services in the Ministry of Justice

PRIME MINISTER Code, gifts valued at more than £140 received and given by Ministers in the present Administration will be published Departmental Responsibilities: Armed Forces by Departments on at least a quarterly basis.

Mr Llwyd: To ask the Prime Minister if he will Public Sector appoint a Minister within the Cabinet Office with overall responsibility for the welfare of current and Luciana Berger: To ask the Prime Minister to how former military personnel. [7802] many public sector workers he and the Deputy Prime Minister sent their recent e-mail. [8099] The Prime Minister: The Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans (Andrew Robathan MP) is responsible The Prime Minister: The e-mail from the Deputy for these issues. The Government consider the welfare Prime Minister and me about the ’spending challenge’ of current and former military personnel as extremely was distributed across the public sector. In a two-week important. The Coalition’s programme for government period, public sector workers submitted over 63,000 sets out a number of concrete measures aimed at rebuilding ideas to the website set up for them to send suggestions the Military Covenant. All Government Ministers must to. ensure that their Departments do everything they can to support current and former military personnel and their families. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Official Gifts Office for Renewable Energy Development Pete Wishart: To ask the Prime Minister which gifts over a monetary value of £140 Ministers in the (a) Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for present and (b) previous administration (i) gave and Energy and Climate Change what assessment his (ii) received in the last 12 months; and which such gifts Department has made of the merits of establishing the have been retained by former Ministers on leaving Office for Renewable Energy Development as a office. [8430] non-departmental public body. [8428]

The Prime Minister: The Government have published Gregory Barker: Establishing the Office for Renewable an annual list of gifts received by Ministers in an official Energy Deployment (ORED) as a non-departmental capacity valued at more than £140 since 2001. The list public body was considered as one of a range of options. was expanded in 2007 to cover gifts given by Ministers. It was decided that a co-ordinated approach to policy A list of gifts valued at more than £140 received and and deployment to develop low-carbon energy supplies given by Ministers in the previous Administration will could best be achieved by keeping ORED as a directorate be published in due course. As set out in the Ministerial within the Department of Energy and Climate Change 847W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 848W alongside the Offices for Nuclear Development, (launched Wind Power 2008) and the Office of Carbon Capture and Storage, (launched 2010). Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many and what Oil Rigs proportion of onshore wind turbine applications his Department has rejected in each of the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [8349] Edward Miliband: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many drilling Charles Hendry [holding answer 13 July 2010]: The inspections are planned to be carried out each year in information is as follows: the future on North Sea oil rigs. [8598] In 2005, the SoS consented two onshore wind farm applications and refused none, representing a 0% refusal Charles Hendry: All drilling rigs operating in UK rate. waters are subject to safety inspections by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and environmental inspection Scout Moor (65 MW) Consented by the Department of Energy and Climate Change Little Cheyne Court (78 MW) Consented (DECC) Offshore Environmental Inspectorate. In 2006, the SoS made one decision on an onshore The number of drilling rig operations being conducted wind farm application. This was a refusal, representing on an annual basis is dependent on the level and scope a 100% refusal rate. of exploration and production activity by operators, Whinash (67.5 MW) Refused consent currently there are 22 mobile drilling rigs operating in In 2007, the SoS consented one onshore wind farm UK waters. The number of offshore inspections by and refused none, representing a 0% refusal rate. regulatory authorities may, therefore, change on an Fullabrook Down (66 MW) Consented annual basis in line with activity and the regulators During 2008, the SoS consented three onshore wind inspection and investigation strategies. farms and refused none, representing a 0% refusal rate. HSE have confirmed that their health and safety Keadby (85 MW) Consented intervention plans propose at least one annual visit to every mobile drilling rig working in UK waters. DECC’s Tween Bridge (66 MW) Consented Offshore Inspectorate undertake a series of prioritised Middlemoor (75 MW) Consented environmental inspections to fixed installations and In 2009, the SoS consented one onshore wind farm drilling rigs, subject to a risk based approach which (jointly with the SoS for Communities and Local takes into account operations being conducted. Over Government) and refused none, representing a 0% refusal the past three years an annual average of nine drilling rate. rig inspections have been undertaken and, subject to the Lynemouth (16.1 MW) Consented above factors, it is DECC’s intention to double this to a To date in 2010, the SoS has made one decision on an minimum of 18 drilling inspections annually, depending onshore wind farm application. This was a refusal, on the level of drilling activity taking place. representing a 100% refusal rate. Steadings (66 MW) Consent refused Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for WORK AND PENSIONS Energy and Climate Change when he expects to make an announcement on a feed-in tariff rate for Allergies: Lost Working Days biomethane injection into the grid. [8013] Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Gregory Barker: The Government are committed to and Pensions what recent estimate he has made of the increasing the amount of renewable heat in the UK; this number of working days lost due to allergies in the is a crucial part of ensuring we meet our renewables UK. [8765] targets, cutting carbon and ensuring energy security. We are committed to introducing measures to promote a Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. huge increase in energy from waste through anaerobic The information requested falls within the responsibility digestion. Central to this will be work to facilitate an of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority increase in the number of anaerobic digestion facilities to reply. producing biomethane from waste, which can be injected into the grid. A copy of their response will be placed in the Library of the House. We are currently looking at the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) proposals. Clearly there are benefits to Disability Living Allowance the scheme, but we must also consider the impact of the costs, particularly given the financial constraints we Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Work must work within and the potential impact that funding and Pensions how many people resident in (a) options could have on vulnerable people. Wansbeck constituency and (b) the UK made an We do want to provide certainty and clarity as quickly appeal against a decision regarding a claim for as possible but want to be sure that we are making the disability living allowance in each of the last five years; right decisions. We will look to make an announcement and how many such appeals were upheld in each such on the future of the proposed scheme as soon as possible. year. [6088] 849W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 850W

Maria Miller: The information is not available on a for a three bedroom property, (c) over £290 per week constituency basis. The number of DLA appeals for the for a two bedroom property and (d) over £200 per UK as a whole and the number of appeals upheld is in week for a one bedroom property. [6060] the following table: Barbara Keeley: To ask the Secretary of State for Total DLA appeals decisions heard by the DLA appeals found in Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance DLA appeals Appeal Service the customer’s favour recipients in Worsley and Eccles South constituency are receiving (a) over £400 per week for a four or five 2005-06 69,000 34,000 bedroom property, (b) over £340 per week for a three 2006-07 63,000 30,000 bedroom property, (c) over £290 per week for a two 2007-08 57,000 26,000 bedroom property and (d) over £200 per week for a 2008-09 53,000 23,000 one bedroom property. [6096] 2009-10 51,000 21,000 Notes: 1. Each year covers decisions recorded on the DLA computer system within the Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for period of 1 April to 31 March. Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest thousand. recipients in (a) Glasgow North and (b) Ealing 3. The figures do not include DLA Appeals made by customers in Northern Ireland and handled by the Department for Social Development in Northern Central and Acton constituency are receiving (i) over Ireland. £400 per week for a four or five bedroom property, (ii) Source: over £340 per week for a three bedroom property, (iii) Department for Work and Pensions—RDA60209, 60205 and 80123 reports—DLA Management Information Statistics. over £290 per week for a two bedroom property and Appeals found in the customer’s favour are appeal (iv) over £200 per week for a one bedroom property. decisions that have either varied the existing award, [6144] increased the existing award or allowed an award of DLA following a previously disallowed decision. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance recipients in (a) Slough, (b) Salisbury and (c) Housing Benefit Scarborough and Whitby constituency are receiving (i) over £400 per week for a four or five bedroom property, Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for (ii) over £340 per week for a three bedroom property, Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance (iii) over £290 per week for a two bedroom property recipients in (a) Bishop Auckland and (b) Blackpool and (iv) over £200 per week for a one bedroom North and Cleveleys constituency are receiving (i) over property. [6192] £400 per week for a four or five-bedroom property, (ii) over £340 per week for a three-bedroom property, (iii) Steve Webb: The information is not available at the over £290 for a two-bedroom property and (iv) over constituency level. £200 for a one-bedroom property in 2010-11. [5183] An exercise is being undertaken to add other geographical Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work areas to the housing benefit data: this will include and Pensions how many local housing allowance recipients parliamentary constituencies. It is hoped this exercise in West Lancashire constituency are receiving (a) over will be completed by early 2011. £400 per week for a four or five bedroom property, (b) over £340 per week for a three bedroom property, (c) Housing Benefit: Greater London over £290 per week for a two bedroom property and (d) over £200 per week for a one bedroom property. [5634] Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many London residents claimed (a) and Pensions how many local housing allowance housing benefit and (b) housing benefit in excess of recipients in Stretford and Urmston constituency are £100,000 in each of the last five years. [6101] receiving (a) over £400 per week for a four or five-bedroom property, (b) over £340 per week for a Steve Webb: Information available on receipt of housing three-bedroom property and (c) over £290 per week benefit in London over the last five years comes from for a one-bedroom property. [5856] two different data sources and is shown in the following two tables. Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing benefit caseload in the London GOR, at each date shown Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance Number recipients in Makerfield constituency are receiving (a) over £400 per week for a four or five bedroom property, November 2008 712,010 (b) over £340 per week for a three bedroom property, August 2009 758,260 (c) over £290 per week for a two bedroom property March 2010 792,890 Notes: and (d) over £200 per week for a one bedroom 1. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. property. [6046] 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. 3. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. 4. Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) is a monthly electronic scan of Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for claimant level data direct from local authority computer systems. It replaces Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance quarterly aggregate clerical returns. The data are available monthly from recipients in Houghton and Sunderland South November 2008, and March 2010 are the most recent available. 5. Data from SHBE incorporate the local authority changes from 1 April 2009. constituency are receiving (a) over £400 per week for a Source: four or five bedroom property, (b) over £340 per week Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE). 851W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 852W

Housing benefit caseload in the London GOR, at each date shown Steve Webb: The information is not available at the As at August east year Number constituency level. 2005 686,160 The available information on housing benefit recipients 2006 689,680 is published at: 2007 698,340 http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/ Notes: hbctb_release_jun10.xls 1. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a An exercise is being undertaken to add other geographical couple. areas to the housing benefit data: this will include 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. parliamentary constituencies. It is hoped this exercise 3. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. Source: will be completed by early 2011. Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information System Quarterly 5% sample taken in August 2005-August 2007. The information is published at: Jobseeker’s Allowance: Lone Parents http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/hbctb.asp We do not have information on annual payments to Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for individual housing benefit recipients. We do hold Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the information on customers’ weekly housing benefit awards number of lone parents in receipt of jobseeker’s and weekly local housing allowance rates which can be allowance in Mid Sussex constituency. [8813] used to make inferences about potential annual awards. The latest information the Department holds is for Chris Grayling: In May 2010 there were 35 lone March 2010, when the maximum local housing allowance parents claiming jobseeker’s allowance in Mid Sussex. rate was £1,800, and shows that there were customers The figure has been rounded to the nearest five. who received this rate. All these customers would be located in the Central London Broad Rental Market Area. Pensioners: West Sussex In June 2010 the maximum local housing allowance rate rose to £2,000 a week which would be equivalent to Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for “receiving housing benefit in excess of £100,000 a year, Work and Pensions how many pensioners in Mid assuming the individual remains in receipt of the same Sussex constituency receive (a) the basic state pension level of benefit for 52 continuous weeks. Information and (b) pension credit. [8812] on housing benefit awards in June will be available in September 2010. Steve Webb: The information available is in the table.

Housing Benefit: Hampstead Parliamentary constituency: Mid Sussex Number

Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for State pension recipients 20,690 Work and Pensions (1) how many of those resident in Pension credit individual 3,110 Hampstead and Kilburn constituency in receipt of beneficiaries housing benefit are in (a) local authority, (b) housing Pension credit household 2,700 association and (c) private sector housing; [6486] recipients Notes: (2) how many of those resident in Hampstead and 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Kilburn constituency and in receipt of housing benefit 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. are (a) pensioners and (b) of working age and (i) in Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic employment and (ii) not in employment. [6487] state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 Steve Webb: The information is not available at the parliamentary constituencies. constituency level. 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim The available information on housing benefit recipients pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a is published at: partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/ 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament hbctb_release_jun10.xls of May 2010. An exercise is being undertaken to add other geographical Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal areas to the housing benefit data: this will include Study 100% data as at November 2009 parliamentary constituencies. It is hoped this exercise will be completed by early 2011. Social Security Benefits: Disability Housing Benefit: Worcestershire Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people are in receipt of Work and Pensions how many individuals resident in (a) disability living allowance, (b) incapacity benefit West Worcestershire are in receipt of housing benefit and (c) employment and support allowance in Mid (a) in total, (b) of over £280 per week for a one Sussex constituency. [8814] bedroom property and (c) of over £400 per week for a four bedroom property or larger. [4450] Chris Grayling: The information is provided as follows: 853W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 854W

Employment support allowance, incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance, Social Security Benefits: Motherwell and disability living allowance claimants in Mid Sussex constituency: November 2009 Parliamentary constituency: Mid Sussex Number Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work ESA 390 and Pensions how many and what proportion of the IB/SDA 1,870 working age population of Motherwell and Wishaw DLA 2,800 constituency are in receipt of (a) jobseeker’s allowance, Notes: (b) unemployment allowance, (c) carer’s allowance, 1. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. (d)disability living allowance,(e)widow’s and/or bereavement 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, some additional disclosure has been benefit and (f) other income support. [6532] applied. 3. Case load for DLA show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and exclude people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. 4. Constituencies used are for the Westminster Parliament of May 2010. Chris Grayling: The information is provided in statistical 5. IB/SDA ‘Claimants’ include people in receipt of benefit and also those who groups fail the contributions conditions but receive a national insurance credit, ie ‘credits only cases’. Source: DWP Information Directorate 100% Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study

Claimants of working age in the parliamentary constituency of Motherwell and Wishaw, as a percentage of the working age population, November 2009 Motherwell and Wishaw Percentage of working age population

Total 13,190 24.3 Job seeker 3,230 6 Employment and support allowance and incapacity benefit 6,480 11.9 Lone parent 1,360 2.5 Carer 870 1.6 Others on income related benefit 390 0.7 Disabled 710 1.3 Bereaved 160 0.3 Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals may not sum due to rounding. 2. Statistical groups are defined as follows: (a) Jobseeker—jobseeker’s allowance. (b) Employment and support allowance and incapacity benefit—employment and support allowance, incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance. Employment and support allowance replaced incapacity benefit and income support paid on the grounds of incapacity for new claims from 27 October 2008. (c) Lone parent—income support with a child under 16 and no partner. Lone parent obligations were introduced from 24 November 2008 affecting the age of the youngest child. Further details available at: http://83.244.183.180/100pc/wa/tabtool_wa.html (d) Carer—carer’s allowance. (e) Others on income related benefits—others on income support (paid on the grounds of incapacity and including the disability premium) or pension credit. (f) Disabled—disability living allowance, attendance allowance or industrial injuries benefit. (g) Bereaved—widow’s benefit, bereavement benefit or industrial death benefit. 3. Figures for attendance allowance and disability living allowance represented in the disabled group and carer’s allowance represented in the carers group include those cases with entitlement but where payment is currently suspended. 4. The constituency is as per Westminster Parliament of May 2005. 5. Statistical Group is a hierarchical variable. A person who fits into more than one category will only appear in the top-most one for which they are eligible. More detail available at: http://83.244.183.180/100pc/wa/tabtool_wa.html 6. Population estimates are taken from mid 2008 figures. ’Working age’ is defined as males aged over 16 and under 65 and females aged over 16 and under 60. Source: Work and Pensions Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study.

Social Security Benefits: Uprating families with children, and the Government will continue to work to eliminate unlawful discrimination and promote equality of opportunity. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether he has made an assessment of the effects on (a) men and (b) women of uprating benefits in line with the consumer prices index. [8105] ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. Analysis of the impact of Budget measures is undertaken Agriculture: Research at the household level. Benefits and tax credits are awarded based on family income. There is significant Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for variation in the way that households allocate their Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what research resources, and interactions between the tax and benefit projects on public attitudes to the use of pesticides her system are complex. For these reasons any gender analysis Department has funded since 1997; what the (a) based on a single set of assumptions would not be research topic, (b) start date, (c) cost and (d) project robust. code was of each such project; who the main The above-indexation increases to the child tax credit contractor was in each case; and which such projects announced at Budget will help support low-income have been completed to date. [8036] 855W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 856W

Richard Benyon: The 1996-97 survey of public attitudes Mr Paice: The information is as follows: to the environment for England and Wales included two (a) The largest single piece of research on badgers questions on pesticides. The work was carried out by and bovine TB is the Randomised Badger Culling Trial MORI, fieldwork was carried out between November (RBCT), carried out by the Independent Scientific Group 1996 and January 1997 and the report was published in on Cattle TB. The ISG’s final report, published in 2007, September 1998. The Survey of public attitudes to explicitly states that badgers contribute significantly to quality of life and to the environment 2001 included the disease in cattle. three questions on pesticides. The work was carried out by the Office for National Statistics, fieldwork was (b) The RBCT examined the impact of two different carried out between January and April 2001 and the badger culling strategies on TB incidence in cattle. report was published in October 2002. Results showed that annual proactive culling was associated with a 23% reduction in TB incidence in cattle herds in The results of these surveys are available on the culled areas, but a 25% increase in TB incidence in herds DEFRA website at: in the surrounding 2 km un-culled ring. The increase in www.defra.gov.uk/evidence/statistics/environment/pubatt/ surrounding areas is thought to be due to changes in index.htm badger behaviour following social disturbance brought No cost can be meaningfully ascribed to the pesticides about by culling—the “perturbation effect”. Since the questions within these surveys as these questions made end of the RBCT, regular monitoring of TB incidence up only a small part of the surveys. No questions on has shown continued benefits of culling on TB incidence pesticides were included in the 2007 or 2009 attitude in proactively culled areas for at least 3.5 years after surveys. culling. A beneficial effect was also observed in the 2 Project PS2302 on the “acceptability of pesticide km ring surrounding culled areas for 2.5 years immediately effects on non-target species” had scheduled start and after culling stopped. Reactive, localised culling was completion dates of 1 November 2002 and 31 October stopped by Ministers in November 2003 as early interim 2004 respectively. The cost was £143,750 and the main results from the reactively culled areas showed an increase contractor was Crane Consultants. The report can be of 18.9% new confirmed TB cattle herd incidents when found at: compared with survey-only areas. http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Menu=Menu& DEFRA has been funding research into badger vaccines Module=More&Location=None&ProjectID=11761&FromSearch since 1998. An injectable badger vaccine has been shown =Y&Publisher=1&SearchText=PS2302&SortString=ProjectCode&Sort Order=Asc&Paging=10#Description to be both safe and effective in experimental studies and is now licensed for use. Research continues into an oral Bees badger vaccine. Modelling work to help us understand the effect of vaccination, in isolation and in combination Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for with culling, is ongoing. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent In 2005, DEFRA commissioned a project to examine research her Department has carried out on the effects the effectiveness of biosecurity measures to prevent of neonicotinoids on the honey bee population. [8494] badger visits to farm buildings. This project finished in Mr Paice: As part of its pesticides research programme October 2009. It found that badger exclusion measures the Government fund a number of projects in support could, if properly employed and maintained, prevent of the development of the pesticides risk assessment 100% of badger visits to farm buildings, but that compliance process. A number of these relate specifically to the varied widely among farmers. potential impact of pesticides on honeybees, both from Research into immunocontraception as a method of the wide scale professional use and home-garden use of controlling badger numbers is being funded through insecticides. These projects were completed last year programmes elsewhere in DEFRA. As the results will and final reports have been published. Previous work be relevant to TB control, DEFRA’s TB Programme on the risk posed to honeybees by systemic insecticides, will review the findings of this study when they become such as imidacloprid, has fed into the international risk available. assessment models for honeybees due to be adopted later this year by the European Plant Protection Office. Departmental Private Roads The rigorous EU scientific process for approval of pesticide active substances and the supporting national Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for processes for individual products protect human health Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to and the environment, including wildlife, provided products the former Secretary of State’s letters to the hon. are used in accordance with the approval and any Member for Ochil and South Perthshire dated 3 related conditions. This approval process takes account February and 19 April 2010, what progress has been of the potential impact on bees. The Government will, made in discussions with the Scottish Executive on the of course, act immediately on any concrete evidence of maintenance burdens of access roads 5 and 6 in adverse impacts of pesticides on bees in the UK. property owned by her Department in Almondbank, Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control Perthshire. [8763]

Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: DEFRA has proposed to Scottish Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Ministers that the roadway exclusively serving their research her Department has commissioned on the (a) retained land at Site 6 be formally transferred to the possible links between badgers and bovine tuberculosis Scottish Government. Scottish Ministers have indicated and (b) possible preventative measures; and what the a desire to explore the proposed transfer and are progressing results of such research have been. [8490] their interest. 857W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 858W

Domestic Waste: Recycling Percentage of household waste sent for recycling/composting/reuse, October 2008 to September 2009) Local authority Percentage Dr Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which 20 local South Shropshire District Council 53.84 authorities recycled the most domestic refuse in 2009. Rutland County Council 53.66 [8308] South Cambridgeshire District Council 53.62 Rushcliffe Borough Council 53.53 Richard Benyon: The following table shows the 20 Stratford-on-Avon District Council 53.26 local authorities in England that sent the highest tonnage Harborough District Council 53.19 of household waste to be recycled, composted or reused Central Bedfordshire 53.09 between October 2008 and September 2009. This is the Cheshire East 52.79 latest 12-month period for which published data is Uttlesford District Council 52.46 available. Shropshire 52.03 Source: WasteDataFlow. Tonnes of household waste sent for recycling/composting/reuse, October 2008 to September 2009 Genetically Modified Organisms Local authority Tonnes

Birmingham City Council 137,885 Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for Leeds City Council Metropolitan 100,347 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what projects on Borough Council public attitudes to genetically-modified crops, food and East Riding of Yorkshire Council 64,577 feed her Department has funded since 1997; what the Sheffield City Council 61,096 (a) topic, (b) start date, (c) cost and (d) project code Bradford City Metropolitan District 60,529 was of each such project; who the main contractor was Council (Metropolitan Borough in each case; and which such projects have been Council) completed to date. [8030] Wakefield City Metropolitan District 59,488 Council Mr Paice: DEFRA part-funded the ‘GM Nation’ Bristol City Council 59,018 public debate that was planned and run by an independent Doncaster Metropolitan Borough 57,296 steering board in 2002 and 2003. The board appointed Council the Central Office of Information as the prime contractor Cornwall 56,394 for the debate. The total cost was £562,000 of which Cheshire East 54,933 DEFRA contributed £282,000. Other funding contributions Kirklees Metropolitan Borough 53,461 were made by the former Department of Trade and Council Industry and the devolved Administrations in Wales, Wiltshire 52,819 Scotland and Northern Ireland. This was not a research Bromley London Borough 51,438 project as such and therefore did not have a project South Gloucestershire Council 51,075 code. Bexley London Borough 50,655 DEFRA also funded a research project, code CB02023, Milton Keynes Council 50,167 on the willingness of consumers to pay to reduce or Derby City Council 49,344 eliminate GM products or derivatives from the supply County Durham 49,190 chain. The contract started in April 2003 and ended in Rotherham Metropolitan Borough 48,525 January 2004; it was carried out by the University of Council Manchester at a cost of £94,550. Walsall Metropolitan Borough Council 48,456 GM Inspectorate: Expenditure The amount sent for recycling is affected by many factors, such as the size of the population in each local authority. The following table shows which 20 local Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities in England had the highest household recycling, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what composting and reuse rate as a percentage of all waste expenditure her Department has incurred on the GM collected in the period October 2008 to September Inspectorate for England and Wales in each year since 2009. 1997. [8028] Percentage of household waste sent for recycling/composting/reuse, October 2008 to September 2009) Mr Paice: Official inspections are carried out to ensure that authorised trial releases of genetically modified Local authority Percentage organisms (GMOs) comply with the conditions specified Rochford District Council 64.08 in the statutory consent. The Food and Environment Cotswold District Council 62.93 Research Agency (Fera) inspects GM crop trials and Staffordshire Moorlands District 61.72 the Health and Safety Executive inspects GM vaccine Council trials, both on behalf of DEFRA. In addition, Fera will East Lindsey District Council 58.14 investigate and take action for DEFRA in relation to South Hams District Council 57.85 unauthorised releases of GMOs. Expenditure on this Teignbridge District Council 57.71 activity is given in the following table. Figures for earlier Huntingdonshire District Council 56.29 years are not readily available. North Kesteven District Council 55.16 The figures for Fera inspections up to 2004-05 reflect Waveney District Council 54.23 the large number of sites involved in the farm scale Ryedale District Council 54.09 evaluation trials of GM herbicide-tolerant crops. 859W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 860W

£ Length (km) Expenditure on GM crop trial inspections 2008-09 45 and unauthorised Expenditure on GM 2009-10 64 GMO releases vaccine trial (Fera) inspections (HSE) The Environment Agency does not maintain detailed 2002-03 223,234 0 records on the length of navigation dredging it has 2003-04 189,280 3,520 undertaken. However, it estimates that it has dredged a 2004-05 135,641 0 length of waterway equivalent to 5km per year, across 2005-06 34,820 0 its waterways over each of the past 10 years. 2006-07 22,273 676 2007-08 9,480 0 David Heyes: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 29,753 800 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate 2009-10 21,038 5,921 she has made of the length of (a) British Waterways canals and (b) Environment Agency waterways which require dredging. [8458] Inland Waterways: Dredging Richard Benyon: British Waterways estimates that David Heyes: To ask the Secretary of State for 291 kilometres (km) of their canals and rivers require Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what statutory dredging, and are prioritised accordingly out of the navigations operated by (a) British Waterways canals total of 3,283 km for which they are responsible. and (b) the Environment Agency are closed to The Environment Agency considers that the current navigation pending dredging. [8455] dredging operations of around 5km per year meets the requirements of its navigations, and believes that this Richard Benyon: British Waterways and the Environment level best balances the cost/benefit for navigation with Agency currently have no statutory navigations closed the needs of the environment. pending dredging.

David Heyes: To ask the Secretary of State for David Heyes: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what volume of (a) dredging (a) British Waterways and (b) the dredged material was removed from British Waterways canals and (b) Environment Agency Environment Agency has for 2010-11. [8456] waterways in each of the last 10 years. [8459] Richard Benyon: British Waterways currently has plans to dredge between 30 kilometres (km) and 40 km of its Richard Benyon: British Waterways estimates that it waterways during 2010-11. This will take place at 18 has removed the following volumes of materials from locations, at an estimated cost of £4.5 million. its waterways in each of the past 10 years:

The Environment Agency plans to dredge a number Volume cubic metres of sites across its navigations in 2010-11; these will cover an equivalent length of 5 kms. Due to the fact that 2000-01 162,000 nearly all of the Environment Agency’s navigations are 2001-02 155,000 heavily modified natural watercourses, with high flows 2002-03 113,000 naturally removing or re-profiling shoals and silt deposits, 2003-04 136,000 this greatly reduces the need for the agency to dredge 2004-05 64,000 extensive lengths of waterway. 2005-06 89,000 2006-07 125,000 David Heyes: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 93,000 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what length of 2008-09 97,000 (a) British Waterways canals and (b) Environment Agency waterways have been dredged in each of the 2009-10 64,000 last 10 years. [8457] The Environment Agency estimates that on average it dredges some 50,000 cubic metres of material from its Richard Benyon: British Waterways estimates that it navigations per year. Some of this material is not removed, has dredged the following lengths of waterways for each but is re-distributed to other parts of the river bed of the past 10 years: within key sites. Length (km) Phytophthora Ramorum 2000-01 143 2001-02 113 Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for 2002-03 90 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what recent 2003-04 95 estimate she has made of the rate at which 2004-05 40 phytophthora ramorum is spreading (a) nationally 2005-06 64 and (b) in the South West; [8125] 2006-07 58 2007-08 53 (2) what recent estimate she has made of the geographical extent of phytophthora ramorum. [8126] 861W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 862W

Mr Paice: Since the first detection of Phytophthora UK Atlantic Salmon production ramorum in Sussex in May 2002, a systematic programme thousand tonnes of surveys has been carried out by the Food and 2004 159 Environment Research Agency and the Forestry Commission covering nurseries, garden centres, woodland 2005 130 and other sites in the wider environment, with action 2006 132 being taken to destroy infected plants that posed a risk 2007 130 of further spread, especially Rhododendrons. 2008 129 While the disease caused by the pathogen has spread, DEFRA does not hold information on the proportion and is now found in much of the south-west of England of Atlantic salmon sold under the EU Protected and Wales, occasionally in other parts of the south of Geographical Indication Appellation Regulation for Scottish England, and to a much lesser extent in Scotland, the Farmed Salmon. rate of spread and the intensity of infection has been slowed by the action taken. In August 2009, the pathogen was found for the first time in Japanese larch, a commercial forestry tree species, ATTORNEY-GENERAL at sites in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset, and surveys Departmental Electronic Equipment have found a number of further sites where trees have been infected. These surveys have intensified and are ongoing, supported by aerial surveillance by helicopter. Graham Evans: To ask the Attorney-General how Infected sites totalling around 1,850 hectares have been much (a) the Law Officers’ Departments and (b) their found in Devon, Cornwall, Somerset and in South agency spent on televisions in each year since 1997. Wales. The evidence suggests that all of the woodlands [7498] that have been found with dead and dying larch could have become infected as a result of a weather event The Solicitor-General: Since launching in 2008-09, causing aerial spread, possibly in 2008. The extent of the National Fraud Authority has spent £1,335.98 on subsequent spread is still being investigated. the purchase and installation of a television and DVD player. In 2007 the Serious Fraud Office purchased four Public Sector: Procurement plasma screen televisions at a total cost £9,240. The Crown Prosecution Service’s (CPS) records show Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for that it has purchased one plasma television screen in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take last five years. The screen was purchased during 2005-06 steps to set up an advisory group to promote and cost £5,287, including installation costs. sustainable local procurement. [7811] CPS central records only hold items that cost over the Mr Paice: The Government have no immediate plans capitalisation threshold of £500 and it is possible that to set up an advisory group to promote sustainable food televisions have been purchased throughout the CPS at procurement. The Government are however examining a lower cost. To obtain this information would incur ways of promoting local procurement including the disproportionate cost. further development of local food hubs. The Revenue and Customs Prosecution Service (RCPO), The procurement of food in the public sector is an which merged with CPS on 1 January 2010, previously area where the coalition Government is looking for purchased one plasma screen television during 2006-07 progress both in terms of efficiencies and sustainability. at a cost of £1,755, which included purchase and installation. The public sector must lead by example on this and The Attorney-General’s Office bought six televisions DEFRA, with input from other Government Departments for the refurbishment of their new headquarters, 20 and external organisations, is already looking into how Victoria street in spring 2007, costing £5,376.67 plus this can be achieved. For example, we are in the process VAT. of considering criteria for Government Buying Standards The Treasury Solicitor’s Department purchased two (GBS) to ensure the public sector procures sustainable televisions in each of the years 2005, 2006 and 2007, at a food and catering services. GBS are mandatory for respective cost of £3,198 plus VAT (2005); £1,798 plus central Government Departments and their executive VAT (2006); and £3,302 plus VAT (2007). Five of the six agencies and these standards will be promoted to the are for use in in-house training and not for receiving wider public sector. television signals. Salmon Departmental Official Cars Mr Reid: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much farmed Atlantic Hugh Bayley: To ask the Attorney-General which salmon was produced in the UK in each of the last five (a) Ministers and (b) officials in the Law Officers’ years; and what proportion was sold under the EU Departments have been driven by the Government Car protected Geographical Indication Appellation Regulation Service since the Government took office; and how for Scottish Farmed Salmon in each such year. [8568] much each of these persons has received in expenses for use of taxis, buses and underground trains in that Richard Benyon: Farming of Atlantic salmon in the period. [7999] UK is dominated by Scotland, although a small production does occur in Northern Ireland. The following table The Solicitor-General: The Law Officers and the Director shows the combined Scottish and Northern Ireland of Public Prosecutions have been driven by the Government annual production from 2004 to 2008. Car Service (GCS) since the Government took office. 863W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 864W

On some occasions a small number of officials in the international commitments. At the EU-Ukraine Attorney-General’s Office have accompanied the Law Co-operation Council on 15 June 2010, the EU urged Officers on official business, but their names cannot be the Ukrainian Prime Minister to continue to take further disclosed on the grounds of staff confidentiality. steps to combat intolerance and discrimination against The Treasury Solicitor has used the GCS on two national and other minorities and in particular hate occasions since 6 May. During this period the Solicitor- crimes. General has claimed £12 for a taxi journey and the Armenia: Genocide Director of Public Prosecutions has claimed for four taxi journeys at a total cost of £108.60. Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Training Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on recognition of the deaths which took place in the Armenian genocide in 1919. [6916] Graham Evans: To ask the Attorney-General how much (a) the Law Officers’ Department and (b) their Mr Lidington: The terrible suffering that was inflicted agency spent on employee training in each year since on Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire in the early 1997. [7637] 20th century cannot be forgotten. The massacres and crimes that were committed were rightly and robustly The Solicitor-General: The information requested is condemned by the Government of the day. While we contained in the following table. remember the victims of the past, our priority today should be to promote reconciliation between the peoples Cost (£) and governments of Turkey and Armenia. That is the NFA1 SFO CPS2 Tsol3 best way to ensure a peaceful and secure future for 1997-98 — 129,048 — — everyone living in the region. 1998-99 — 136,960 — 298,000 Cyprus 1999-2000 — 126,948 — 333,000 2000-01 — 182,936 — 400,000 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001-02 — 239,997 — 549,000 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent 2002-03 — 179,833 — 654,000 discussions he has had with his overseas counterparts 2003-04 — 152,510 4,033,000 773,000 on a political settlement in Cyprus; and if he will make 2004-05 — 250,699 3,863,000 654,000 a statement. [8842] 2005-06 — 320,537 3,986,000 559,000 2006-07 — 377,173 3,956,000 678,000 Mr Lidington: My right hon. Friend the Foreign 2007-08 — 425,289 3,568,000 765,000 Secretary discussed the Cyprus settlement negotiations 2008-09 9,617 445,191 3,456,000 817,000 with the Cypriot Foreign Minister, Markos Kyprianou 2009-10 37,656 236,821 3,160,000 704,000 on 12 July 2010. He had also previously discussed the 1 The training cost for 2009-10 reflects an increase in staff numbers issue with the Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and full year impact of NFA operations. on 8 July 2010. I have discussed the issues with my 2 The figures for employee training provided from 2005-06 onwards Turkish counterpart Egemin Bagis. We are committed include costs for the Revenue and Customs Prosecution Service to supporting the UN’s efforts to achieve a settlement (RCPO) who merged with the CPS on 1 January 2010. The data are based on a bizonal, bicommunal federation with political taken from the Financial Management System and are only available from 2003-04 onwards, data for earlier years could be obtained only equality. We want to see a settlement agreed and peacefully at a disproportionate cost. The figures include road, rail and air implemented by Cypriots for Cypriots to deliver a travel—and also charges for car hire. stable, prosperous and united Cyprus, operating as a 3 Figures cover the amount spent by the Treasury Solicitor’s Department, valued partner within the EU. Attorney-General’s Office and HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate for each year. The figures prior to 1998-1999 are not Departmental Location retained on the Department’s accounting system, and could be obtained only at a disproportionate cost. HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate was not included within the Department until mid-2001. Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he plans to relocate (a) civil servants and (b) Government bodies for which his Department is responsible (i) out of FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE London and (ii) to the West Midlands; and if he will Anti-Semitism make a statement. [8288] Alistair Burt: The location of public sector activity Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and plans for the Government’s estate will be considered and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has received alongside other public spending issues over the course reports on levels of anti-Semitism in (a) Ukraine, (b) of the Spending Review. Latvia and (c) Estonia since his appointment; and if he will make a statement. [7069] Departmental Lost Property

Mr Lidington: There are no significant problems with Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for anti-Semitism in Latvia and Estonia. In recent years Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what property has there have been a number of anti-Semitic incidents in been recorded as (a) lost and (b) stolen from the Ukraine. We take a serious view of these incidents and Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate continue to urge the Ukrainian authorities to tackle has been made of the cost of the replacement of that them in a determined way in accordance with Ukraine’s property. [5963] 865W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 866W

Alistair Burt: The information required is held separately Number in various Foreign and Commonwealth Office Departments, all of which hold records relating to various losses and 2006 thefts of both personal property and official furnishings, April 2,232 including IT equipment losses. This information is not May 2,168 held centrally, and to provide it would incur disproportionate June 1,868 cost. July 1,819 August 1,726 Departmental Offices September 1,690 October 1,648 John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign November 1,895 and Commonwealth Affairs if he will take steps to December 1,549 relocate officials working in his Department from central London to Bassetlaw. [6559] 2007 January 1,682 Alistair Burt: The location of public sector activity February 1,674 and plans for the Government’s estate will be considered March 1,770 alongside other public spending issues over the course April 1,641 of the spending review. May 1,777 June 1,530 Departmental Sick Leave July 1,723 August 1,671 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for September 1,572 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many days October 1,832 absence because of illness among his Department’s November 2,028 staff were recorded in each month since 1997. [8840] December 1,750

Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office 2008 (FCO) is committed to reducing sickness absence. The January 2,186 average number of days sick leave by UK staff has February 1,895 decreased from 8.9 days in 1997 to 3.5 days in 2009. Per March 1,717 capita sickness absence in the FCO has been consistently April 1,845 below the public sector average. May 1,372 We do not keep records centrally of sick leave taken June 1,258 by locally-engaged staff members. This information July 1,541 could be obtained only at a disproportionate cost. August 1,250 Data collection since 1997 has been complicated by September 1,797 the introduction of new pay and management information October 1,847 systems. It is therefore possible that the figures given as November 1,621 follows do not reflect consistent recording methods. December 1,938 All figures include staff in FCO positions working for UK Border Agency, and also include staff working 2009 for FCO Services, which became a Trading Fund on January 1,986 1 April 2008. February 2,036 Annual figures are available from 2000 and monthly March 1,931 figures from April 2006: April 1,761 May 1,793 Total number of Average number of June 1,669 days days per officer July 2,111 1997 n/a 8.9 August 1,563 1998 n/a 8 September 1,469 1999 n/a n/a October 1,827 2000 120,900 6.3 November 1,773 2001 25,012 6.6 December 1,352 2002 27,720 4.7 2003 33,219 5.6 2010 2004 35,969 6.2 January 1,385 2005 20,904 3.4 February 1,362 2006 19,102 3.1 March 1,660 2007 20,650 3.6 April 1,334 2008 20,267 3.6 May 1,535 2009 21,271 3.5 June 1,365 n/a = Not available. 1 Estimated. 867W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 868W

Diplomatic Service: Redundancy members of minority groups who continue to face arrest and lengthy prison sentences, often on vaguely Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for worded charges of acting against national security. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs which overseas posts his Department is considering for possible Iran: Capital Punishment closure. [6656] Mr Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what Secretary has stated, we will not secure the UK’s economic representations he is making to the President of Iran recovery or our future security and prosperity without on the death sentences on Ms Sakineh Ashtiani and looking beyond our shores for new opportunities and others convicted for alleged adultery; and if he will new partners. There can be no suggestion that it is in make a statement. [8624] our national interest for our role in the world to wither and shrivel away. The Government reject the idea of Mr Jeremy Browne: In a statement on 7 July 2010 my strategic shrinkage. Although we keep the size and hon. Friend Alistair Burt made clear our deep concern scope of our network under constant review to ensure it over the reports that Ms Sakineh Mohammadi-Ashtiani is efficient and effective, any decisions to open or close would be executed by stoning. EU High Representative posts will always take into account the crucial role our Catherine Ashton also issued a statement on 6 July overseas network plays in serving the needs and protecting 2010 calling on Iran to halt this and other executions. the interests of the British people. Following a statement by the Iranian embassy that Ms Ashtiani would not be stoned to death, my hon. Gaza Friend Alistair Burt telephoned the Iranian ambassador on 9 July 2010 to express concern that Ms Ashtiani Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State could still be executed by different means and urged the for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he Iranian authorities to review her case. We will continue plans to visit Gaza. [8240] to follow this case closely and raise our concerns with the Iranian authorities. Alistair Burt: For security and operational reasons, Iran: Human Rights we do not comment on or announce visits by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary significantly in advance. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Iran and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has made an assessment of the human rights situation of Jewish people in Iran since his appointment; and if he will Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for make a statement. [7068] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with his overseas counterparts Alistair Burt: I am deeply concerned about the situation on the state of democracy in Iran. [8835] of Jewish people, and a number of other minorities, in Iran. The position of the three religious minorities Alistair Burt: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary recognised by the constitution—Christians, Jews and regularly discusses Iran with his EU counterparts, including Zoroastrians—remains vulnerable. Although recognised the state of democracy, human rights concerns and minority groups have reserved seats in the Parliament, developments in Iran’s nuclear programme. The Foreign higher positions in state institutions are reserved exclusively Secretary has also discussed Iran with a number of for Shiite Muslims. other overseas counterparts. We will continue to work Further, government rhetoric and actions often create with international partners to voice our concerns over a threatening atmosphere for non-Shia religious groups. democratic shortcomings in Iran and encourage the I have stated publicly our support for the rights of Iranian authorities to address the concerns raised by minorities in Iran and will continue to raise this issue many within Iran following the disputed presidential with the Iranian authorities. election in 2009. Iraq: Embassies Iran: Baha’i Faith Meg Munn: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has for the and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make British Embassy Office in the Kurdistan region of Iraq; representations to the Iranian authorities to free the and if he will make a statement. [7680] seven Baha’i leaders now in their third year in prison awaiting trial; and if he will make a statement. [7660] Alistair Burt: Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) Ministers continuously review the deployment Alistair Burt: The UK remains extremely concerned of FCO resources, including our embassy office in about the ongoing detention of the seven Baha’i leaders Erbil, and align them with UK interests. in Iran. In my statement of 10 June 2010, I made clear Iraq: Embassies that the accused should be given due legal process and that their rights be fully protected, in line with international Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for standards. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs which companies This is a case I am following closely and I again urge sponsored the arrangements made by the British the Iranian Government to cease its harassment of the Embassy in Baghdad to celebrate HM the Queen’s Baha’i minority, and to respect the rights of the many Birthday in 2010. [7054] 869W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 870W

Alistair Burt: The Queen’s Birthday celebration at Yemen: Counter-terrorism our embassy in Baghdad was sponsored by the following companies: Shell, HSBC, BAE Systems, Cyril Sweett, Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for ITT, Copperchase, Inanna Diyala, Parsons Brinckerhoff Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his (PB), Mott McDonald and Standard Chartered. Department has spent on countering terrorism in Yemen under each category of expenditure in each of the last three years. [7729] Kyrgyzistan: Politics and Government Alistair Burt: Due to the sensitive nature of counter Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for terrorism projects, we cannot provide details of the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent exact amounts allocated to projects in specific countries assessment he has made of the role of the Organisation under the counter terrorism and radicalisation programme. for Security and Cooperation in Europe in responding to the security situation in Kyrgyzistan. [7164] CABINET OFFICE Mr Lidington: The Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), working closely with Business: Bexley the UN, EU and other international actors, is playing an important role in helping Kyrgyzstan take steps to Mr Evennett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet ensure peace, institutional stability, open dialogue, rule Office how many small businesses in Bexleyheath and of law and democracy for all of its people. Crayford constituency generated a turnover of (a) The Special Envoy of OSCE Chairman-in-Office and between £70,000 and £100,000 and (b) over £100,000 the OSCE Centre in Bishkek are at the forefront of this in the most recent period for which figures are work. Their efforts are reinforced by the OSCE’s Office available. [7191] for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights and by Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the the OSCE’s High Commissioner on National Minorities. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have I expect to discuss Kyrgyzstan during the informal asked the authority to reply. meeting of OSCE Foreign Ministers in Almaty on 16-17 July 2010. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question concerning how many small businesses in Bexleyheath and Crayford Michael Binnington and Luke Atkinson generated a turnover of (a) between £70,000 and £100,000 and (b) over £100,000 in the most recent period for which figures are Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign available. [7191] and Commonwealth Affairs what consular assistance Annual statistics on business counts are available from the his Department provided to (a) Michael Binnington ONS release UK Business: Activity, Size and Location at and (b) Luke Atkinson in respect of legal proceedings www.statistics.gov.uk in Cyprus. [8709] Data are for enterprises in the constituency of Bexleyheath and Crayford with less than 50 employment and for the year 2009. Mr Lidington: The role of consular staff when a Count of VAT and/or PAYE based enterprises with less than 50 British national is detained overseas is essentially one of employment for the constituency of Bexleyheath and Crayford welfare. The Government are not able to interfere with Turnover size Count the legal process of another country, nor are we able to £70,000-£99,000 400 give legal advice. £100,000+ 1,195 Our consular staff visited Mr Atkinson and Mr Binnington several times during their detention. Departmental Public Expenditure Both men were given information about local legal systems and processes, together with a list of local Mr Blunkett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Cypriot lawyers. They were advised to pursue their Office pursuant to the written ministerial statement of cases through the Cypriot legal system. 26 May 2010, Official Report, columns 2-3WS, on savings (2010-11), under what budgetary headings the £79 million of savings allocated to his Department will USA: Pakistan be made. [6828] Mr Hurd: The savings have been allocated as follows: Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Administration budget: £4.25 million Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make Programme budget: £68.25 million representations to his US counterpart to support the Capital budget: £6.5 million. repatriation of Dr Aafia Siddiqui to Pakistan on humanitarian grounds. [8141] Departmental Speeches

Alistair Burt: Dr Aafia Siddiqui is a Pakistani national Angela Smith: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet currently standing trial in the US on terrorism charges. Office which (a) (i) civil servants and (ii) special As a Pakistani national, any representations would be advisers in his Department and (b) other individuals made to the US by the Pakistani authorities on are employed to write speeches for each Minister in his Dr Siddiqui’s behalf. Department. [7303] 871W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 872W

Mr Maude: Cabinet Office staff will contribute to the Lone Parents: Birmingham drafting of ministerial speeches as appropriate. Special advisers also contribute to the preparation of speeches Jack Dromey: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet in line with their code of conduct. Office how many lone parents there are in Birmingham Erdington constituency. [6937]

Departmental Training Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Graham Evans: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet asked the authority to reply. Office how much his (a) Department and (b) its Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: agency and non-departmental public bodies spent on As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I training for its employees in each year since 1997. have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question [7641] asking how many lone parents there are in Birmingham Erdington constituency. (6937) Mr Maude: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated gave on 13 July 2010, Official Report, column 668W. using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided for lone parent families which include at least one child aged under 16. The latest available figure is for 2008 and is shown in the table Jobseeker’s Allowance: Norwich below. This is based on the 2008 parliamentary constituency boundary. Birmingham Erdington, as constituted in 2008, consisted Simon Wright: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet of five electoral wards, one more than the current constituency. Office how many people aged under 25 years old and The breakdown of the data available is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether the newly constituted parliamentary constituency resident in Norwich South constituency claimed contains the same estimated number of lone parents as the 2008 jobseeker’s allowance in (a) 1997, (b) 2007, (c) 2008 constituency. and (d) 2009. [7050] Number of lone parent families Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the with at least one child under 16 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Geographical area (Thousand) asked the authority to reply. Birmingham Erdington 5 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: constituency (2008) Source: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I APS January to December 2008 have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many people aged under 25 years old and resident in Norwich Lone Parents: Milton Keynes South constituency claimed jobseekers allowance in (a) 1997 (b) 2007 (c) 2008 and (d) 2009. (7050) The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number Mark Lancaster: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre Office how many lone parents there are in Milton Plus administrative system. Keynes North constituency. [7064] The Norwich South parliamentary constituency changed to new boundaries at the 2010 general election. Figures for the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the current Norwich South parliamentary constituency are only available responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have from 2005. asked the authority to reply. Table 1 attached, shows the number of persons aged under 25 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: years claiming JSA, resident in the current Norwich South As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I parliamentary constituency for May in each year since 2005, have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question including May 2010, the latest period for which figures are asking how many lone parents there are in Milton Keynes North available. constituency. (7064) National and local area estimates for many labour market The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided count are available on the NOMIS website at: for lone parent families which include at least one child aged http://www.nomisweb.co.uk under 16. Table 1: Number of persons1 aged under 25 resident in Norwich South The latest available figure is for 2008 and is shown in the table constituency claiming jobseeker’s allowance below. This is based on the 2008 parliamentary constituency Number boundary. ‘North East Milton Keynes’, as constituted in 2008, consisted of 15 electoral wards, three more than the current May 2005 565 constituency of ‘Milton Keynes North’. The breakdown of the May 2006 675 data available is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether the newly constituted parliamentary constituency contains the same May 2007 610 estimated number of lone parents as the 2008 constituency. May 2008 555 May 2009 815 Number of lone parent families— May 2010 860 with at least one child under 16 1 Age data are only available for computerised claims, which account Geographical area (thousand) for 99.7% of all claims. Note: North East Milton Keynes 3 Data rounded to nearest five. constituency (2008) Source: Source: Jobcentre Plus administrative system APS January to December 2008 873W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 874W

National Citizen Service Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many people were Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet placed in training by Advantage West Midlands in each Office what progress has been made in establishing a of the last five years. [8411] national citizen service. [7265] Mr Prisk: Figures in Advantage West Midlands’ (AWM) Mr Hurd: Details of this programme will be announced annual reports indicate that the RDA has assisted more by the Cabinet Office later this year, with a launch than 100,000 people with training. The following figures expected in 2011. provide the annual breakdown of the numbers of people assisted.

Number BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS 2005-06 27,500 Advantage West Midlands 2006-07 22,550 2007-08 21,630 Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 16,622 Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has 2009-10 17,077 made of the value generated for the West Midlands Total 105,379 regional economy by each £1 spent by Advantage West Midlands in each of the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [8408] Apprentices

Mr Prisk: An independent review conducted by PwC in 2006/07 found that RDAs on average generated a Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for return of £4.50 for every £1 spent. The average return Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many for AWM is just under £4 to £1. This ranges from £1:£1 apprenticeships were taken up by people aged between for the ‘People and skills’ programme to £16:£1 for their 30 and 50 years in each of the last five years; [7930] individual enterprise support scheme. But, as the PwC (2) what target he has set for the number of analysis also revealed, much of RDAs’ spending was of apprenticeships to be taken up by people aged between poor value. More than half the RDAs’ economic benefits 30 and 50 years in each of the next five years. [7931] came from just 20% of their spending. In these constrained times, we need to ensure that all spending is valuable and worthwhile. That is why this Mr Hayes: Table 1 shows apprenticeship starts for Government are creating local enterprise partnerships learners aged between 30 and 50 years old. Figures are (LEPs), accountable to the people affected by the LEPs given for 2004/05 to 2008/09, the latest year for which actions, so that money is spent on programmes that will full year data are available. The upper age limit of 25 make a difference, not to meet Whitehall targets. was abolished in 2006. Table 1: Apprenticeship programme starts for 30 to 50-year-olds, Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004/05 to 2008/09 Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding Number Advantage West Midlands provided for businesses in the West Midlands in each of the last five years. [8409] 2004/05 200 2005/06 100 Mr Prisk: The Department allocates budgets to regional 2006/07 1— development agencies. The agencies determine which 2007/08 16,100 projects to support, subject to the terms of the 2008/09 33,000 Accountability and Financial Framework and their 1 Indicates a base figure of less than 50. delegated financial authorities. RDAs’ investments have Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest hundred. been guided by the regional economic strategy and their 2. Figures are based on age at start of programme. corporate plans. The Department does not hold details Source: of funding for businesses given by the RDAs within Individualised Learner Record. their delegated financial authorities. Information on the number of apprenticeship starts Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for is published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). Business, Innovation and Skills to how many The latest SFR was published on 24 June: businesses Advantage West Midlands provided funding http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ to in each of the last five years. [8410] statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current/ 167,000 adult apprenticeship starts are planned in the Mr Prisk: The number of businesses supported by 2010/11 academic year. Our plans do not separately Advantage West Midlands (AWM) over the last five target those aged 30 to 50. Plans for adult apprenticeships years are set out within the RDA’s annual reports and for 2010/11 and 2011 /12 will be confirmed in the autumn. accounts and can be found at: The Government’s decision to redeploy £150 million of www.advantagewm.co.uk our savings for 2010-11, creating an additional 50,000 The annual reports are also available in the Libraries of places, demonstrates our commitment to high-quality the House. employer owned apprenticeships. 875W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 876W

Apprentices: West Midlands Business Links

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what plans he has to Business, Innovation and Skills what recent assessment increase the number of engineering apprenticeships in he has made of the effectiveness of the Business Link (a) the West Midlands, (b) Dudley borough and (c) service; and if he will place in the Library a copy of Dudley North constituency; [8205] each assessment on the effectiveness of the service he has considered. [7025] (2) what plans he has to increase the number of manufacturing apprenticeships in (a) the West Midlands, (b) Dudley borough and (c) Dudley North Mr Prisk [holding answer 12 July 2010]: A full constituency. [8206] economic impact assessment of Business Link was published by BERR in 2007. An early stage assessment of the Business Link-delivered health checks was completed Mr Hayes: We are seeking to drive up the skills levels in 2009. Both of these reports are in the Library and are of the work force by directing public funding where it freely available from the BIS website. Business Link is will bring the clearest benefits. Apprenticeships will currently under review and the Department will be play a vital role in this. Our decision to redeploy £150 drawing on the data provided within these evaluations million of Train to Gain funding to create 50,000 high- as it considers ways to modernise how business support quality, employer-led apprenticeship places is just the is delivered. beginning. My ambition is no less than to build a system that facilitates more apprenticeships in England than we have ever seen before. Mr Alan Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for To build an advanced economy we need advanced the future of Business Link. [8655] skills in manufacturing and engineering and apprenticeships are a major contributor to the nation’s engineering and manufacturing skills base. Last year 37,000 people started Mr Prisk: The Coalition Government are committed an apprenticeship in engineering and manufacturing to abolishing the regional development agencies (RDAs) technologies in England and I want to see this number and establishing local enterprise partnerships. Business rise. That is why this Government are committed to Link is provided by the RDAs and we are currently increasing the number of apprenticeships, in particular, reviewing all the functions of the RDAs to determine advanced and higher apprenticeships. We are also whether and how best to deliver them in future. Business committed to driving up the quality of apprenticeships Link is being reviewed as part of this process. and ensuring, through Sector Skills Councils, that all apprenticeship frameworks meet the needs of the real economy. Sector Skills Councils also have a key role in Business Links: Expenditure driving up demand from employers within their sectors and encouraging more businesses to offer apprenticeship Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for places. Business, Innovation and Skills how much funding his We fund apprenticeships on a national basis through Department allocated to Business Link in each of the the Skills Funding Agency (SFA)—there are no regional last three years. [8258] or sectoral allocations. We expect the SFA to work with the National Apprenticeships Service, employers, colleges Mr Prisk: In 2005, responsibility for managing Business and training organisations in Dudley and the West Link face-to-face services was transferred to the RDAs. Midlands to make additional apprenticeship places available The previous budget used to deliver Business Link where there is local demand. services was added to the Department’s contribution towards the RDA “Single-Pot”. This allows the regions to draw down as much or as little funding as they see fit Batteries: Recycling to deliver the service in their areas. Over the last three years, the RDAs have allocated Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the following budgets to their Business Link providers: Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his BL funding over period 2007/101 Department is taking to ensure that waste industrial £ million and automotive batteries are recycled. [8865] 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

NWRDA 14.1 16.5 19.7 Mr Prisk: The Waste Batteries and Accumulators Regulations 2009 (SI 2009 No. 890) implement certain NERDA 12.9 12.9 19.1 provisions in the Batteries and Accumulators and Waste AWM 22.8 35.2 16.7 Batteries and Accumulators Directive (2006/66/EC), EMDA 13.0 13.7 14.6 including those which came into effect on 1 January EEDA 15.8 16.0 14.5 2010, prohibiting the disposal of waste industrial and Y&H 13.0 13.0 15.7 automotive batteries by landfilling or incineration and LDA 19.4 26.7 17.0 requiring their recycling. The regulations place a SWRDA 19.6 19.9 13.6 responsibility on producers of such batteries to ensure SEEDA 24.0 24.0 22.7 they are recycled when becoming waste, but also permit Total 154.6 177.9 153.6 this to be done by other licensed operators. 877W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 878W

Business: Bexley Mr Prisk: Departments are currently identifying which regulations can be removed or simplified to comply Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for with the one-in one-out rule. Business, Innovation and Skills whether any businesses Members of the public also have the opportunity, in (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency and (b) through the Your Freedom website, to suggest which the London Borough of Bexley received support from regulations could be removed to reduce the burden on the Capital for Enterprise fund in the last 12 months. business. [7855]

Mr Prisk: The Capital for Enterprise Fund has made Companies investments in 38 businesses with a total value of £50.8 million. These include 13 investments in London and four in the south-east of England. Given the limited Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for number of investments in these regions, and for reason Business, Innovation and Skills how many companies of commercial confidentiality, I am unable to provide a were struck off the Register of Companies in (a) breakdown by parliamentary constituency as this could England, (b) Wales, (c) Scotland and (d) Northern make it possible to identify the individual companies Ireland in action instigated by (i) the company and (ii) that have received support. the Registrar in 2009-10; how many such applications in each category did not proceed because objections Business: Government Assistance were received; in respect of how many such applications in each category objections were received from HM Revenue and Customs; how many such Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for applications in each category resulted in a striking off Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for within six months of an objection being made the future of the Financial Intermediary Service; and regardless of that objection; how many companies what steps he plans to take to assist small businesses to struck off in each category (A) never filed accounts and access finance. [6996] (B) had accounts overdue for filing at the time the application was made; how many strikings-off initiated Mr Prisk: The coalition Government are committed by the Registrar in each category were in cases where to abolishing the regional development agencies and accounts were overdue for filing at the time the establishing local enterprise partnerships. Business Link Registrar commenced action to strike off; and how is provided by the RDAs and we are currently reviewing many months each company in each category struck all the functions of the RDAs to determine whether and off by the Registrar had been in existence since their how best to deliver them in future. Business Link and incorporation. [7041] the Financial Intermediary Service are being reviewed as part of this process. Mr Davey: Companies House can provide figures for Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his but not for Wales alone, as it is not a separate jurisdiction Department took to assist small and medium-sized from England. business during the recent recession; and if he will The numbers of companies in each category struck make a statement. [8867] off in 2009-10 were as follows:

Mr Prisk: It is an established convention that Minsters Voluntary dissolution— Compulsory dissolution— of one Administration cannot see the documents of a Jurisdiction instigated by the company instigated by the registrar previous Administration. I am therefore unable to provide the information requested. Scotland 10,385 8,792 England 159,199 326,657 and Wales Business: North East Northern 96 26 Ireland Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for The numbers of companies in each category not the future of (a) Business Link and (b) publicly- struck off because objections were received were as funded business support in (i) the North East and (ii) follows: Houghton and Sunderland South constituency. [7925] Voluntary dissolution— Mr Prisk: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I instigated by the Compulsory dissolution— gave to the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Jurisdiction company instigated by the Registrar Cunningham) on 14 July 2010, Official Report, column Scotland 1,962 2,976 804W. England 9,358 17,943 and Wales Business: Regulation Northern 91 22 Ireland Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills which items of The numbers of companies in each category where regulation have been identified for repeal under his one objections to striking off were received from Her Majesty’s in, one out policy. [8363] Revenue and Customs were as follows: 879W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 880W

Mr Davey: The most recent estimate made of the Compulsory dissolution— Voluntary dissolution— instigated by the percentage of applications to register a company, which Jurisdiction instigated by the company Registrar are rejected by Companies House is 17.1% overall. This figure includes errors in the completion of the form Scotland 1,934 2,796 IN01, errors in the company’s model articles (which England 8,882 13,870 must accompany the IN01), and a missing or incorrect and Wales fee. Northern 85 19 Ireland

The numbers of companies struck off following an Electric Vehicles objection were as follows: Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Voluntary dissolution— Business, Innovation and Skills (1) whether he plans to instigated by the Compulsory dissolution— implement the proposed consumer incentive for electric Jurisdiction company instigated by the Registrar vehicles; [7828] Scotland 2,935 1,452 (2) what estimate he has made of the likely effects on England 15,827 24,101 the manufacturing industry in the North East of the and Wales proposed £5,000 consumer incentive for the purchase Northern 91 of electric vehicles. [7829] Ireland

The numbers above are higher than might be expected Mr Prisk: The final decisions on the consumer incentive because the objection to the striking off may have been for electric vehicles rest with my right hon. Friend the made in the previous year—2008-09. Secretary of State for Transport. He is considering this The question as to how many companies were dissolved issue and, as has been previously stated, a statement will because no accounts were filed can be answered only in be made as soon as possible. relation to compulsory dissolutions and are as follows: No assessment has been made of the impact of the incentive on manufacturing on a regional basis. Compulsory dissolution— Jurisdiction instigated by the registrar

Scotland 7,147 Finance Yorkshire England and Wales 135,636 Northern Ireland 8 Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how much Finance The question as to how many companies were dissolved Yorkshire has provided in loans to businesses since its where accounts were overdue for filing can be answered creation; [8171] only in relation to compulsory dissolutions and are as follows: (2) how many applications for funding Finance Yorkshire has (a) refused and (b) approved since its Compulsory dissolution—instigated by the creation; [8172] registrar (3) what the budget was for Finance Yorkshire in Jurisdiction Number Percentage 2009-10; and how much of that budget was spent on loans to businesses. [8173] Scotland 8,792 100 England and Wales 326,657 100 Northern Ireland 26 100 Mr Prisk [holding answer 13 July 2010]: Finance Yorkshire has not yet provided any loans to businesses. As the registrar only instigates striking off action Since its launch on 12 March 2010, Finance Yorkshire against companies for failing to file their accounts the has processed 306 applications for funding. From these, figures above will be the same as for the total number of 293 applications have been rejected and 13 applications companies stuck off compulsorily (see first table). have received approval in principle and are at offer stage The figures relating to how many months each company, before final due diligence and completion. It is anticipated in each category, struck off by the registrar had been in that loans to business will be completed shortly, following existence since its incorporation has been deposited in the imminent completion of a European Investment the Library due to the large volume (134 pages) of the Bank (EIB) loan to Finance Yorkshire. information. In 2009-10 Finance Yorkshire spent £400,484 on set-up costs, including for example IT equipment and upgrading the premises to ensure they are fit for purpose. Companies: Registration A further £114,696 was spent on running costs, including staff salaries. Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, £45 million was committed to Finance Yorkshire as Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he has made programme funds in 2009-10 comprising £15 million of the percentage of applications to register a company RDA Single Programme and a £30 million European using Form IN01, which are rejected by Companies Regional Development Fund (ERDF) grant. This House owing to errors in the completion of the form. investment was made in order to draw down a £45 million [8389] loan from the EIB. 881W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 882W

Foreign Investment in UK: North West Wirral West2 Records show no FDI projects over the past three Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for years for postcodes CH48 and 47, which are in Wirral Business, Innovation and Skills what support his West, and none in the shared constituency postcodes of Department has made available to attract inward CH41 and 49. investment to (a) Wirral West and (b) the North West 2 Source: in the last three years. [8257] UKTI

Mr Prisk: The information requested is as follows: Further Education Under the current economic development structures in England, the Department for Business, Innovation Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for and Skills allocates budgets to regional development Business, Innovation and Skills which further agencies. The agencies determine what assistance to education colleges Ministers of his Department have provide to business, subject to the terms of the visited since their appointment. [5031] accountability and financial framework and their delegated financial authorities. RDAs’ investments have been guided Mr Hayes: So far I have visited City and Islington by the regional economic strategy and their corporate College and Uxbridge College. My right hon. Friend plans. the Secretary of State has visited Birmingham Metropolitan North West1 College. UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) is the Government I have written to all college principals on two occasions Department that leads on work to attract high quality in regard to FE capital funding and increased freedoms foreign direct investment (FDI) into the UK in partnership in the FE sector. In addition I have met many college with economic development agencies, and other principals personally and had several meetings with the Government Departments, across the country.This delivers sector representative bodies, the Association of Colleges, a high standard of service throughout the investment the 157 Groups and the Association of Learning Providers. process. Full use is made of the UK’s global network of I am also currently working with my officials on a embassies, high commissions and consulates. Significantly series of visits across the country during the parliamentary assisted by that work, over the last few years, the recess and in the autumn academic term. Northwest has been the most successful UK region, outside of the South East, for attracting FDI projects. Further Education: Finance The total number of FDI projects for the financial years 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10 was 511 (see table). Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary of In 2009-10, despite the current economic climate, there State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much were 179 FDI projects in the North West, estimated to funding each regional development agency contributed involve nearly 13,500 jobs—over 7,000 of those being to capital building projects for further education new, the remainder safeguarded. The public sector were colleges in each of the last five years. [8454] involved in nearly 70% of these projects. 1 Mr Prisk: The Department allocates budgets to regional Source: development agencies. The agencies determine which UKTI and NWDA projects to support, subject to the terms of the Total North West accountability and financial framework and their delegated Number/£ financial authorities. RDAs’ investments have been guided by the regional economic strategy and their corporate 2007-08 plans. The Department does not hold details of individual Total Projects 156 projects supported by the RDAs within their delegated Associated Jobs 14,444 financial authorities. Public Sector Involved1 93 Grant Ass—projects 17 Members: Correspondence Grant Ass—total (£) 14,554,700 Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, 2008-09 Innovation and Skills when he plans to respond to the Total Projects 176 correspondence of 8 March 2010 from the right hon. Member for Leicester East on his constituent Associated Jobs 11,436 Mr Martin Wheelwright. [9290] Public Sector Involved 111 Grant Ass—projects 11 Mr Prisk: The right hon. Member’s letter was answered Grant Ass—total (£) 9,048,400 by the then Minister of State for Trade Promotion and Investment on 28 April 2010. 2009-10 Total Projects 179 One NorthEast Associated Jobs 13,486 Public Sector Involved 125 Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State Grant Assisted Projects 25 for Business, Innovation and Skills how many local Grant Assistance (£) 38,143,000 authorities in the North East his Department consulted 1 Public Sector Involved, Grant Ass—projects and Grant Ass—total before the announcement of proposals to abolish One (£ million) figures provided by NWDA NorthEast. [9166] 883W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 884W

Mr Prisk: The coalition programme set out the empower them as the voice of employers in the skills Government’s intention to support the creation of local system—and to challenge them to perform with maximum enterprise partnerships to replace regional development effectiveness. In June I met with representatives from agencies. The Government confirmed its intention to the Alliance of Sector Skills Councils (SSCs), including abolish all regional development agencies in the Budget SSC Chief Executives. I also met with Charlie Mayfield, on 22 June 2010. If it is the clear wish of business and the lead UK Commissioner for employer engagement, civic leaders to establish a local enterprise partnership and a group of SSC chairs. Over the coming months I for a functional economic area that matches existing plan to meet with all the SSCs as part of a full and regional boundaries, we will not object. active dialogue to identify how best we can realise our ambitions for skills. Regional Development Agencies Sixth Form Colleges: Capital Investment Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer of 15 June 2010, Official Report, column 391W, on Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for regional development agencies, what activity (a) each Business, Innovation and Skills whether the regional development agency and (b) the National 293 colleges he expects to receive capital grant support Secretariat for Regional Development Agencies has in 2010-11 will include sixth form colleges. [8713] undertaken to communicate the benefits of the retention of regional development agencies since Mr Hayes: Out of the 293 colleges that the Skills the general election to stakeholders; and at what cost to Funding Agency expects to fund in 2010-11, 28 are the public purse. [6839] sixth form colleges. From 1 April 2010 designated sixth form colleges became the responsibility of the Department Mr Prisk: The regional development agencies and the for Education, however it was agreed that existing approved RDA Secretariat have not undertaken any activities projects would be funded by the Skills Funding Agency specifically for the purpose of communicating to in 2010-11. stakeholders the benefits of the retention of regional development agencies since the general election. Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether the £50 million Regional Development Agencies: West Midlands funding announced by his Department for colleges that have yet to receive significant funding from capital Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, programmes will be available to all sixth form colleges Innovation and Skills what research his Department which have not recently received such funding. [8764] has (a) undertaken and (b) commissioned on the likely effects on the (i) number of jobs and (ii) economy in (A) Mr Hayes: The £50 million additional college capital the West Midlands and (B) Dudley borough of the funding is not available to sixth form colleges. As of 1 abolition of regional development agencies; and if he April 2010 designated sixth form colleges became the will make a statement. [8214] responsibility of the Department for Education. Sebastian James, group operations director of DSG international Mr Prisk: Our proposals are for restructuring the plc, is conducting a comprehensive review of all Department delivery landscape for economic development. Replacing for Education capital investment. The review will guide the regional development agencies (RDAs) with local future spending decisions over the next spending review enterprise partnerships will ensure that these partnerships period (2011-12 to 2014-15) and will look at how best to better reflect the natural economic geography of the meet demand; make current design and procurement areas that they serve. cost-effective and efficient. Reorganising the delivery of economic development will ensure a focused targeted delivery of policy/services Takeovers in areas where it can have the most benefit, and we would not expect that this transition will have a negative Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State impact on the economy in the English regions or the for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent number of jobs. assessment he has made of progress in his Department’s review of factors that may be considered Sector Skills Councils by regulators when takeovers are proposed. [8632]

Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Davey: The Government have no current plans to Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what plans he has amend the legislation governing the power to intervene for the future role of the Sector Skills Councils; and if in mergers on public interest grounds. We are satisfied he will make a statement; [7278] that the existing powers provide the appropriate scope (2) what meetings Ministers in his Department have to take action to protect legitimate national interests had with the (a) Chair and (b) Chief Executive of that might be affected as a result of a merger. The each Sector Skills Council since 12 May 2010. [7279] Government will set out their general approach to regulation of takeovers in their forthcoming response Mr Hayes: The coalition Government believe in a to the 6 April report by the Business, Innovation and strong employer role and voice in the skills system, and Skills Select Committee into Kraft’s acquisition of Cadbury that this is best organised at sectoral level. Sector Skills (HC 234). The takeover panel’s consultation on options Councils have a crucial role in all aspects of our skills for amending the takeover code is due to close by policy, including apprenticeships. We will continue to 27 July 2010. 885W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 886W

Vocational Training: West Midlands Departmental Legal Costs

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he plans to Health how much (a) his Department and (b) its take to improve the level of skills among the (a) youth agencies and non-departmental public bodies spent on and (b) adult population in (i) the West Midlands, (ii) legal advice in each year since 1997. [7572] Dudley borough and (iii) Dudley North constituency. [8212] Mr Simon Burns: The Department’s legal services team is provided by the Department for Work and Mr Hayes: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I Pensions (DWP) through a shared service agreement, gave him on the 15 June 2010, Official Report, column and they procure external legal advice on our behalf. 393W.In addition, from August professional, impartial, Figures are not held centrally prior to 2001, but the independent, comprehensive careers advice will be available following table shows their external expenditure on through Next Step, the integrated adult careers service, legal advice between 2001 and 2010: to help individuals make the best choices about their progression in learning and work. Financial year Expenditure (£000) 2001-02 770.2 2002-03 875.3 HEALTH 2003-04 1,655.1 2004-05 1,102.1 Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse 2005-06 1,140.5 2006-07 947.7 Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 985.3 Health what guidance his Department makes available 2008-09 617.7 to the public on the health risks of alcohol 2009-10 1,229.7 consumption. [8877] Notes: 1. These figures include expenditure relating to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, previously Medicines Control Anne Milton: The Department provides information Agency, for the whole period, and for Food Standards Agency up to on units, national health service drinking guidelines, the and including 2006-07. health risks of alcohol consumption and advice to help 2. These figures do not include data for other non-departmental people reduce the amount they drink through the NHS public bodies and agencies, which is not held centrally, and would Choices website: incur disproportionate cost to obtain. 3. These figures exclude the cost of the legal team itself. www.drinking.nhs.uk/index.html 4. From time to time, the Department obtains legal advice directly, in Previously, the Department provided information about support of specific programmes or contracts for example. However, unit information and the risks of alcohol consumption this expenditure cannot be separately identified without incurring via the ‘Know Your Limits’ website. The content of disproportionate cost. these pages were updated and moved to NHS Choices Departmental Official Cars as part of the ‘Alcohol Effects’ campaign in March 2010. The ‘Alcohol Effects’ campaign placed a greater Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for prominence on the health risks of regularly drinking Health how much his Department has spent on the more than the recommended limits. Government Car Service since the Government took The Department also provides leaflets and other office. [7971] materials to general practitioners, health professionals and other external organisations with an interest in Mr Simon Burns: The total invoiced expenditure on raising alcohol awareness, through the Alcohol Learning government cars since 12 May 2010 for the Department Centre website. of Health is £78,005.31. The existing contracts, which were subject to a 90-day contract termination period, Continuing Care end on 19 August 2010. All travel is undertaken in accordance with the Ministerial Code. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) when he expects to receive the report of the Departmental Training mid-term review of the National Service Framework for Long-Term Conditions; [2803] Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) when he expects the mid-term review of the Health how much (a) his Department and (b) its National Service Framework for Long-Term Medical agencies and non-departmental public bodies spent on Conditions to report. [6471] employee away days in each year since 1997. [7321]

Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: The Department is committed to Health what plans he has for the National Service developing its staff and equipping them with the skills Framework for Long-Term Conditions. [8250] and knowledge to carry out their work. Away days make a contribution to such development. Mr Burstow: We are currently considering the options Away days are typically arranged by individual teams for the National Service Framework for long-term in the Department. No central records of these events neurological conditions, and will report back in due are kept, so to collect this information for the core course. Department would incur disproportionate costs. 887W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 888W

Information about the costs of away days is available the following table. For the other NDPBs and agencies, from four of the Department’s currently existing non- including those which were abolished during the period departmental public bodies (NDPBs), and from its one 1997 to 2010, similar information does not exist or current agency: the Medicines and Healthcare products could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Regulatory Agency (MHRA) These are presented in

£000 1997-2002 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Organisation Council for ———————2 1 Healthcare Regulatory Excellence Monitor ———191243578430 Appointments — 1 0 8 9 0 15 10 9 Commission Care Quality ————————34 Commission MHRA ———212016486927 Note: Figures are from various sources and so may not exactly match with accrual accounts. Figures have been rounded to the nearest £1,000 and may include both revenue and capital.

Departmental Travel not cover all travel spend for the Department, its agencies and non-departmental public bodies which may be Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for purchased in exceptional cases via another route; for Health how much his (a) Department and (b) its example a member of staff paying for rail ticket at short agencies and non-departmental public bodies has spent notice and claiming back the money spent as an expense. on travel for employees in each year since 1997. [7428] There are no central records held for these types of purchases and to provide this information would be at Mr Simon Burns: Expenditure on travel incurred by disproportionate cost. the Department, its agencies and non-departmental Data before 2002 is not available. It is not possible to public bodies from January 2002 to March 2010 is set provide a breakdown of spend between the Department out in the following table. A majority of travel is booked and its non-departmental public bodies for the period via the Department’s central contract for travel, which from January 2003 to December 2003. covers air, rail and ferry travel. The following figures do

£ Period Department Agencies and non-departmental public bodies

January 2002 to December 2002 5,474,820 3,533,927 January 2003 to December 2003 9,042,135 April 2004 to March 2005 6,591,243 2,022,877 April 2005 to March 2006 6,729,453 3,125,390 April 2006 to March 2007 5,601,756 3,481,789 April 2007 to March 2008 6,202,412 3,122,724 April 2008 to March 2009 8,512,741 4,037,328 April 2009 to March 2010 8,450,744 4,913,308

Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for No expenses were claimed by the above persons for Health which (a) Ministers and (b) officials in his the use of taxis, buses or underground trains in May Department have been driven by the Government Car and June 2010. Service since the Government took office; and how General Practitioners much each of these persons has received in expenses for use of taxis, buses and underground trains in that Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health period. [7972] (1) when he plans to implement his proposals for GP commissioning; [7066] (2) whether he has plans to give GPs responsibility Mr Simon Burns: There are currently six cars and for commissioning (a) hepatitis B and C and (b) other drivers allocated to the five Ministers and the chief specialist services; and if he will make a statement. executive of the national health service in the Department. [7067] The existing contracts, which were subject to a 90-day contract termination period, end on 19 August 2010. Mr Simon Burns: The White Paper, ‘Equity and All ministerial travel is undertaken in accordance with Excellence: Liberating the NHS’, published on 12 July the Ministerial Code. 2010, sets out our intention to devolve power and 889W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 890W responsibility for commissioning services to local Anne Milton: The Department holds one file on the consortiums of general practitioner (GP) practices. To Patient (Assisted Dying) Bill of Session 2002-03. The support GP consortiums in their commissioning decisions, file is entitled ″Patient Assisted Dying Bill″. we will also create an independent National Health The Department holds one file on the Assisted Dying Service Commissioning Board. The White Paper proposes for the Terminally Ill Bill of the 2003-04 and 2004-05 that the NHS Commissioning Board will be responsible Sessions. The file is entitled ″Assisted Dying for the for commissioning national and regional specialised Terminally Ill Bill″. services, which may include some services for people with hepatitis. Prescriptions The White Paper sets out an indicative timetable, commencing with GP consortiums in place in shadow form during 2011-12. Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department is taking to increase the A further document setting out these proposals in level of take-up of information prescriptions. [8637] more detail will be issued shortly, providing the basis for consultation and engagement with health and care Mr Burstow: The Department is providing professionals and with the public. implementation support to the national health service NHS through the Quality, Innovation, Productivity and Prevention (QIPP) programme for long-term conditions. In this, each participating team will implement information Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health prescriptions for their chosen condition(s) in a way that what guidance his Department provides to primary care best suits their local community. They will use the trusts on consultation with patients and the public on learning from this to implement information prescriptions reviewing or changing the (a) provision of, (b) funding for other long-term conditions, and will share their of and (c) access to a service it commissions individually experiences with their peers. or jointly with other primary care trusts. [7887] The Department has published guidance, and provided Mr Simon Burns: The Department has produced the tools and resources to assist with the implementation of following guidance for primary care trusts (PCTs) and information prescriptions. These include an online resource other national health service bodies in meeting their toolkit, e-learning for health and social care staff and responsibilities to involve and consult people in the an organisational self-assessment toolkit. The Information planning of services and development of proposals for Prescriptions Service change: www.nhs.uk/ips Leading Local Change and Changing for the Better: Guidance has recently been launched to give health and care when Undertaking Major Changes to NHS Services (May 2008); professionals easy access to NHS information alongside Real Involvement—Working with People to Improve Health quality-assured information from Britain’s leading charities. Services (October 2008); and Implementation of information prescriptions for people Code of Practice on Consultation—BIS Guidance on consultations with long-term conditions is a matter for the NHS. (2009). This does not include guidance to PCTs on consultation Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health about funding of and access to services. when he expects to publish his Department’s implementation plan for the roll-out of information NHS: Discharges prescriptions; and if he will make a statement. [8638]

Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Burstow: The Department has published guidance, how many delayed discharges there were from NHS and provided tools and resources to assist with the hospitals in the most recent period for which figures are implementation of information prescriptions. These include available. [8676] an on-line resource toolkit, e-learning for health and social care staff and an organisational self-assessment Mr Burstow: In 2009-10 quarter 4 (January to March) toolkit. The Information Prescriptions Service there were, on average at any given point, 2,433 acute www.nhs.uk/ips patients, aged 18 plus, delayed and occupying a hospital has recently been launched to give health and care bed who were eligible for discharge. professionals easy access to NHS information alongside Of these 2,433 acute patients, 77.4% (1,884) were quality-assured information from Britain’s leading charities. aged 75 or over. The Department intends to publish an implementation On average at any given time over the quarter there plan for cancer information prescriptions in the autumn. were a further 1,417 non-acute patients whose discharges This implementation plan will address a number of were also delayed. specific issues identified during piloting of information Patient (Assisted Dying) Bill prescriptions for cancer patients.

Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Tobacco what files his Department holds on (a) the Patient (Assisted Dying) Bill [Lords] of Session 2002-03 and Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) the Assisted Dying for the Terminally Ill Bill [Lords] Health how many people work in his Department’s of Session (i) 2003-04 and (ii) 2004-05; and if he will tobacco policy team; and if he will make a statement. make a statement. [8572] [8481] 891W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 892W

Anne Milton: The tobacco policy team in the Department Mr O’Brien: The Department for International consists of seven whole-time equivalent civil servants. Development (DFID) funded an appraisal of options There are currently also five contract staff, primarily for rural energy use in the Congo Basin in 2009. This working in the area of smoking cessation delivery. The included an assessment of reducing wood-fuel consumption contract staff will have left the team by the end of by introducing improved stoves. The review provided March 2011. options for addressing the fuel wood issue that could be developed and potentially funded through the African Tobacco: Young People Development Bank (AfDB) administered Congo Basin Forest Fund. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has to tackle the (a) purchase Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State and (b) consumption of tobacco by underage persons. for International Development (1) what reports his [8451] Department has received on the plans of Democratic Republic of Congo’s Government to increase the area Anne Milton: Smoking is the biggest preventable of that country subject to industrial-scale logging; cause of death. Discussions are taking place across [7935] Government to decide how best to tackle this problem in the context of our focus on public health, and our (2) what assessment he has made of the effects of the priorities given the challenges facing business competition Democratic Republic of Congo’s extension of its and costs. forestry concession on current and future levels of These considerations include the issues of why children global carbon dioxide emissions; and if he will make a start smoking and how they get access to tobacco. statement. [7938] Mr O’Brien: As a participant and member of the World Bank administered Forest Carbon Partnership INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Facility (FCPF), the Department for International Afghanistan: Overseas Aid Development (DFID) has received and reviewed the Democratic Republic of Congo’s (DRC) Readiness Preparation Proposal (R-PP), submitted for grant funding Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for from the FCPF’s Readiness Fund. This document makes International Development what his policy is on reference to the possible extension of DRC’s forestry delivery of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan; and if he concession, but no time period for possible implementation will make a statement. [7684] is given. Mr Andrew Mitchell: We are supporting the International DFID officials are in contact with the Government Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) with £6 million in of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), who 2010 to support people in conflict affected areas to have confirmed that they have no current plans to receive humanitarian assistance in accordance with extend this concession. International Humanitarian Law. I have recently commissioned a review of the Department Departmental Manpower for International Development’s aid programmes, including the humanitarian programme in Afghanistan. I will Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for make decisions following the outcome of this review. International Development whether the salary costs of Democratic Republic of Congo: Forestry staff of his Department based in the UK are included in estimates of official development assistance. [7848] Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps his Mr Duncan: The salary costs of DFID staff based in Department is taking to reduce the problem of the UK are included in estimates of UK official deforestation related to production of charcoal in the development assistance (ODA). This is consistent with the guidelines of the Organisation for Economic Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo region. [7908] Co-operation and Development (OECD) Development Mr O’Brien: The Department for international Assistance Committee (DAC) on calculating ODA. Development (DFID) funded an appraisal of options for rural energy use in the Congo Basin in 2009. This Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for included an assessment of the production of charcoal International Development what change there has been and improved conversion technologies that may reduce in the number of UK-based policy staff of his the impact on deforestation. The review provided options Department in the last five years. [7852] for addressing deforestation related to charcoal production that could be developed and potentially funded through Mr Duncan: Changes in the number of UK-based the African Development Bank (AfDB) administered home civil servants (HCS) working principally on policy Congo Basin Forest Fund. in the Department for International Development (DFID) over the last four years are set out in the following table. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State This includes HCS working as advisers in the UK and for International Development what assessment his overseas and staff working in dedicated policy departments. Department has made of the merits of providing Comparable information for the period prior to 31 March support to energy-saving stove projects in Democratic 2006 cannot be provided without incurring disproportionate Republic of Congo. [7934] cost. 893W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 894W

will use our position in these bodies to press for aid to Date: 31 March 2006 31 March 2010 be delivered promptly and effectively. Assistance to Number of HCS 643 572 Haiti is also regularly discussed in high level meetings policy staff with other donors, as well as international fora such as Total number of 1,847 1,619 the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations. HCS staff Percentage of total 34.8 35.3 Overseas Trade: Ethics HCS staff Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if he will encourage British International Development what plans he has for businesses to sign up to the Ethical Trading Initiative future changes in staffing levels at his Department; and and UN Global Compact. [7809] if he will make a statement. [7853] Mr Duncan: The Department for International Mr Duncan: In line with other Government Departments, Development (DFID) strongly supports the Ethical the Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) Trading Initiative and the United Nations Global Compact. administration budget will be set during the comprehensive DFID will continue to encourage British businesses to spending review. After this review decisions will be sign up to these initiatives, which challenge poor labour made on DFID’s staffing structure below the senior standards around the world, drive practical measures to civil service (SCS). DFID intends to reduce SCS costs improve them, and support broader corporate responsibility. by 20% by 2013. Forests: Carbon Emissions EDUCATION Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Academies International Development what work his Department undertakes on the establishment of a global forest Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for carbon market. [8015] Education how many expressions of interest by schools in obtaining academy status have come from (a) head Mr O’Brien: The UK is working through the United teachers alone, (b) head teachers and chairs of Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change governors, (c) chairs of governors alone and (d) (UNFCCC) to reform the current framework for governing bodies of the school concerned. [5850] international carbon trading in order to deliver cost-effective global emissions reductions and increase finance flows Mr Gibb: The registration form to express an interest to developing countries. In the long term, integrating in becoming an academy does not request this information. forests into this framework is likely to be the most If a school proceeds to submit an application to convert, efficient, effective and equitable way of generating finance that must be supported by confirmation that the governing for reducing emissions from forestry. body has passed a resolution agreeing to the application. The UK is contributing £15 million to the Forest Carbon Partnership Forum (FCPF), which will work in Academies: Salisbury a few pilot countries to test a carbon finance mechanism through a Carbon Fund. This fund is due to be launched John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for by the end of 2010. Education when his Department expects to issue its decision on the application of Salisbury High School Haiti: Earthquakes for academy status. [6420]

Mr Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gibb [holding answer 6 July 2010]: The proposal International Development what his policy is on the for Salisbury High School to become an Academy is provision of aid to Haiti; what recent discussions he currently in its feasibility stage. We anticipate that the has had with his international counterparts on this Secretary of State will make a decision on whether it issue; and if he will make a statement. [8626] will move into its implementation phase shortly. Mr Duncan: The Department for International Departmental Buildings Development (DFID) responded to the earthquake in Haiti with £20 million in emergency support, which Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for included a 64-person search and rescue team and helped Education how much (a) his Department and its provide more than 380,000 people with food, clean predecessors and (b) its non-departmental public water and medical care. DFID has also pledged £2 million bodies spent on office refurbishment in each year since for initiatives to reduce Haiti’s vulnerability to future 1997. [7358] disasters. UK support for reconstruction will be through our Tim Loughton: Expenditure on office refurbishment contributions to multilateral bodies such as the World by the Department and its predecessors for the years Bank, the European Union and the Inter-American 2007-08 to 2009-10 is shown in the table. Details of Development Bank. These bodies are best placed to amounts spent in earlier years and amounts spent by lead on reconstruction with the Government of Haiti. the Department’s NDPBs are unable to be provided The UK’s share of the funds pledged by these multilaterals within the requested deadline as this would incur for reconstruction in 2010-11 is over $100 million. We disproportionate costs. 895W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 896W

Expenditure on refurbishments during 2007-08, 2008-09 53-55 Butts Road and 2009-10 was principally incurred as a result of an Earlsdon Park estate rationalisation and maintenance programme. The Coventry cost of the work was paid for in just over one year by CV1 3BH the savings from vacating Caxton House. This saves approximately £13 million per annum in running costs. School Food Trust 3rd Floor Total spend by DFE on office refurbishments 2 St Paul’s Place £ 125 Norfolk St 2007/08 6,827,036 Sheffield 2008/09 4,099,898 S1 2JF 2009/10 3,585,353 Training and Development Agency for Schools Departmental ICT City Tower Piccadilly Plaza Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Manchester Education how much (a) his Department and its M1 4TD predecessors and (b) its non-departmental public bodies The Young People’s Learning Agency spent on information and communication technology Cheylesmore House in each year since 1997. [7339] Quinton Road Tim Loughton: The information requested can be Coventry provided only by incurring disproportionate cost. CV1 2WT Departmental NDPBs Departmental Official Hospitality Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the address is of the head office of each Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for non-departmental public body for which his Department Education how much (a) his Department and its is responsible. [5721] predecessors and (b) its non-departmental public bodies spent on hospitality in each year since 1997. Mr Gibb: The addresses requested are as follows: [7446] British Educational Communications and Technology Agency Tim Loughton: The information requested cannot be Millburn Hill Road supplied without incurring disproportionate cost. Science Park Coventry Departmental Public Expenditure CV4 7JJ Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for 6th Floor Education how much capital underspend his Sanctuary Buildings Department identified in each of the last five financial Great Smith Street years. [3825] London SW1P 3BT Tim Loughton [holding answer 15 July 2010]: The Children’s Workforce Development Council following table sets out details of underspends on capital 2nd Floor budgets for the last five years. City Exchange Underspend 11 Albion Street £ million

Leeds 2008-09 489.0 LS1 5ES 2007-08 599.9 National College for Leadership of Schools and Children’s 2006-07 1,105.2 Services 2005-06 231.3 Triumph Road 2004-05 111.9 Nottingham NG8 1DH Data for 2009-10 are now being confirmed, and will Office of the Children’s Commissioner be available in the Department’s Annual Resource Accounts, 1 London Bridge which will be published in late July. The bulk of the underspends were caused by delays to the Building London Schools for the Future (BSF) programme, which related SE1 9BG in part to the bureaucratic application process and Partnerships for Schools partly also to local authorities’ capacity to deliver to 33 Greycoat Street challenging timeframes. London The Secretary of State announced on 5 July 2010 that SW1P 2QF BSF projects that had not reached financial close would Qualifications and Curriculum Development Agency be cancelled. 897W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 898W

Departmental Speeches We are also working to improve the skills of the parenting work force and to look at what effectively Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for addresses the needs of those working on the front-line. Education which (a) (i) civil servants and (ii) special Around 1000 more practitioners across all local authorities advisers in his Department and (b) other individuals will have the opportunity to access training in effective are employed to write speeches for each Minister in his parenting programmes in 2010-11. Department. [7298] Schools Tim Loughton: The Department employs a team of five civil servants who support Ministers in the writing Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for of their speeches. There are no special advisers employed Education whether he has made an estimate of the to write speeches but, under the special advisers code of average number of appropriate schools within two conduct, released by the Cabinet Office in June 2010, miles of home of a child in year (a) one, (b) seven and contributing to speeches can be part of a special adviser’s (c) 12 in each local authority; and if he will make a role in supporting the wider ministerial team. statement. [4912] Departmental Training Mr Gibb: A table containing the requested information for pupils in year one and year seven is shown as Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for follows. The Department collects information in the Education how much (a) his Department and its School Census about Year 12 students attending sixth predecessors and (b) its non-departmental public forms in schools only, we do not collect information bodies spent on employee awaydays in each year since about year 12 students in other sixth form provision eg 1997. [7320] sixth form colleges. Therefore the figures that the Department could supply from the School Census would Tim Loughton: The Department for Education was only provide partial coverage, would not be representative established on 12 May 2010. Information on the away of all sixth form activity and some local authority data days for employees in the Department and predecessor and comparisons would be invalid because of differences Departments is not held centrally and could be obtained in sixth form provision between local authorities. only at disproportionate cost. Average number of appropriate1 schools within two miles by local authority of pupil residence2—January 2010 Health Education National curriculum year group LA Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for number LA name Year 1 Year 7 Education what assessment his Department has made 201 City of London 97 16 of the effectiveness of the national healthy schools 202 Camden 64 12 programme; and if he will make a statement. [5185] 203 Greenwich 40 6 Sarah Teather: We are currently reviewing the impact 204 Hackney 86 16 205 Hammersmith and 56 8 of this programme. Fulham Parents: Local Government Services 206 Islington 84 14 207 Kensington and 64 11 Chelsea Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for 208 Lambeth 66 12 Education what steps are being taken to ensure a range 209 Lewisham 53 9 of high-quality parenting programmes is available in 210 Southwark 80 14 the most disadvantaged areas. [6848] 211 Tower Hamlets 84 16 Sarah Teather: The Government are providing £94 212 Wandsworth 51 9 million nationally for targeted parenting and family 213 Westminster 64 11 interventions in 2010-11 aimed at families who are 301 Barking and 35 9 struggling to manage their children’s behaviour. Local Dagenham areas have discretion over how they organise their family 302 Barnet 31 8 and parenting support services as local people are better 303 Bexley 30 7 able to decide what will work best in their local community. 304 Brent 41 10 305 Bromley 23 5 The Department is working with the Children’s Workforce Development Council and the National 306 Croydon 29 7 Academy for Parenting Research at King’s College to 307 Ealing 34 9 ensure that evidence based parenting programmes and 308 Enfield 33 8 effective parenting interventions are available. This is 309 Haringey 58 12 through a number of research trials that gather evidence 310 Harrow 27 19 on the overall effectiveness, value for money and long-term 311 Havering 18 6 cost effectiveness of family interventions against the 312 Hillingdon 21 8 high costs of a child being taken into care or being 313 Hounslow 27 7 placed in a Young Offenders Institution. There is also 314 Kingston 23 5 ongoing work with the Centre for Excellence and Outcomes 315 Merton 43 6 on sharing good and effective practice in parenting and 316 Newham 58 12 family support. 317 Redbridge 33 10 899W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 900W

Average number of appropriate1 schools within two miles by local Average number of appropriate1 schools within two miles by local authority of pupil residence2—January 2010 authority of pupil residence2—January 2010 National curriculum year group National curriculum year group LA LA number LA name Year 1 Year 7 number LA name Year 1 Year 7

318 Richmond upon 26 6 821 Luton 22 6 Thames 822 Bedford Borough 12 4 319 Sutton 28 7 823 Central Bedfordshire 9 3 320 Waltham Forest 42 11 825 Buckinghamshire 8 2 330 Birmingham 37 8 826 Milton Keynes 16 3 331 Coventry 29 6 830 Derbyshire 9 2 332 Dudley 24 6 831 Derby 19 4 333 Sandwell 32 7 835 Dorset 4 1 334 Solihull 19 5 836 Poole 11 8 335 Walsall 27 6 837 Bournemouth 13 5 336 Wolverhampton 27 7 840 Durham 8 2 340 Knowsley 22 4 841 Darlington 14 3 341 Liverpool 33 7 845 East Sussex 7 2 342 St Helens 17 3 846 Brighton and Hove 19 4 343 Sefton 19 5 850 Hampshire 8 2 344 Wirral 20 4 851 Portsmouth 21 6 350 Bolton 29 5 852 Southampton 20 5 351 Bury 24 5 855 Leicestershire 9 2 352 Manchester 39 6 856 Leicester 29 6 353 Oldham 37 7 857 Rutland 3 1 354 Rochdale 23 5 860 Staffordshire 11 3 355 Salford 28 6 861 Stoke-on-Trent 21 5 356 Stockport 28 5 865 Wiltshire 6 1 357 Tameside 29 5 866 Swindon 18 4 358 Trafford 24 6 867 Bracknell Forest 13 3 359 Wigan 19 4 868 Windsor and 10 3 370 Barnsley 13 2 Maidenhead 371 Doncaster 11 2 869 West Berkshire 8 2 372 Rotherham 14 3 870 Reading 21 3 373 Sheffield 20 4 871 Slough 14 7 380 Bradford 30 5 872 Wokingham 11 3 381 Calderdale 17 3 873 Cambridgeshire 6 1 382 Kirklees 18 4 874 Peterborough 16 4 383 Leeds 22 4 876 Halton 20 3 384 Wakefield 13 2 877 Warrington 19 3 390 Gateshead 23 3 878 Devon 5 1 391 Newcastle upon Tyne 27 4 879 Plymouth 21 5 392 North Tyneside 20 5 880 Torbay 12 3 393 South Tyneside 24 5 881 Essex 10 2 394 Sunderland 17 4 882 Southend-on-Sea 14 4 420 Isles of Scilly 1 1 883 Thurrock 11 3 800 Bath and North East 92884 Herefordshire 5 1 Somerset 885 Worcestershire 10 3 801 Bristol, City of 27 6 886 Kent 9 3 802 North Somerset 8 2 887 Medway 18 5 803 South 15 3 888 Lancashire 15 3 Gloucestershire 889 Blackburn with 23 5 805 Hartlepool 17 3 Darwen 806 Middlesbrough 25 5 890 Blackpool 17 5 807 Redcar and Cleveland 11 3 891 Nottinghamshire 12 3 808 Stockton-on-Tees 18 4 892 Nottingham 30 5 810 Kingston upon Hull, 25 4 893 Shropshire 5 1 City of 894 Telford and Wrekin 12 3 811 East Riding of 61895 Cheshire East 9 2 Yorkshire 896 Cheshire West and 11 2 812 North East 15 4 Chester Lincolnshire 908 Cornwall 4 1 813 North Lincolnshire 8 2 909 Cumbria 7 1 815 North Yorkshire 5 1 916 Gloucestershire 10 2 816 York 14 3 919 Hertfordshire 14 3 901W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 902W

Average number of appropriate1 schools within two miles by local Schools: Management authority of pupil residence2—January 2010 National curriculum year group LA Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for number LA name Year 1 Year 7 Education how many proposals for free schools have been received from groups in (a) Enfield North 921 Isle of Wight 5 2 constituency, (b) the Enfield local education authority 925 Lincolnshire 5 2 area and (c) England. [6750] 926 Norfolk 7 2 928 Northamptonshire 11 2 Mr Gibb: As of 7 July 2010, the Department for 929 Northumberland 6 3 Education has received the following numbers of free 931 Oxfordshire 8 2 school proposal forms: 933 Somerset 6 2 (a) 0 proposals from groups in Enfield North constituency; 935 Suffolk 8 2 (b) 0 proposals from groups in Enfield local authority; 936 Surrey 10 2 937 Warwickshire 9 2 (c) 34 proposals from groups in England. 938 West Sussex 9 2 Young People: Unemployed England 20 4 1 Appropriate schools are based on the statutory age range of schools Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for and the gender of the school. For year 1 pupils maintained primary Education what assessment he has made of the likely schools and academies. For year 7 pupils maintained secondary, city effects on careers advice and support for young people technology colleges and academies. The school’s admissions policy not in employment, education or training of recent and religious character are not taken into account. Does not include special schools. reductions in local authorities’ area-based grant 2 Pupils who are resident within the LA boundary but schools could allocations. [6506] be located outside LA boundary. Notes: Mr Gibb [holding answer 7 July 2010]: The savings Data is taken from the School Census 2010 and so includes information only from those schools who made a census return. from the Department for Education’s Area Based Grant The number of schools within two miles is based on the straight line (ABG) to local authorities are part of the local government distance between the pupil’s postcode and the school’s postcode. contribution to deficit reduction in 2010-11, which Source: represents a 3.6% cut in funding to local authorities. We School Census 2010 expect them to consider the need for savings across all areas of expenditure, regardless of whether the initial Schools: Discipline source of funding is formula or area based, taking account of their statutory responsibilities and of the Government’s commitment to protecting front line services Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for wherever possible. The reduction in ABG does not Education what steps he is taking to improve discipline imply a direct cut to those services funded by the grant, in schools. [6749] which include careers advice and support for young people not in employment, education or training. Mr Gibb: It is this Government’s intention to give heads and teachers the powers they need to ensure discipline in the classroom and promote good behaviour. In a statement to the House on 7 July I announced that we will take steps to strengthen teachers’ powers to INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY search pupils; issue shorter and clearer guidance on the STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE use of force; and remove the requirement to give 24 hours written notice when giving pupils detentions. We Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority: will also give teachers the strongest possible protection Members from false accusations. Mr Bacon: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Schools: Finance Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority how many claims by hon. Members were received by the Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority Education with reference to his letter of 16 June 2010 (IPSA) on (a) 23 June 2010, (b) 24 June 2010, (c) 25 to directors of children’s services and local authority June 2010, (d) 28 June 2010, (e) 29 June 2010, (f) 30 chief executives, what representations he has received June 2010, (g) 1 July 2010, (h) 2 July 2010, (i) 5 July on changes in support for school activities through the 2010 and (j) 6 July 2010; what the total monetary value local delivery support grant following the proposed was of claims for which IPSA completed payment on change to the funding level provided to local each such day; and what the average administrative authorities through that grant. [6290] cost to IPSA was per transaction, including all expenditure by IPSA since its inception. [7730] Mr Gibb: The Secretary of State for Education has not received any representations on the changes to the Mr Charles Walker: The claims received and paid out local delivery support grant funding announced on 16 on the relevant days are shown in the following table. June 2010 to local authorities. The amounts have been rounded to the nearest pound. 903W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 904W

2010 23 June 24 June 25 June 28 June 29 June 30 June 1 July 2 July 5 July 6 July

Claims received 198 213 163 136 446 298 391 150 381 353 Amount paid out (£) 6,192 31,633 20,486 21,726 0.00 42,222 6,725 63,581 49,965 30,275

IPSA has advised me that any calculation of the of £3.2 billion in council housing. They also left a average cost to IPSA per transaction to date, including legacy of high public sector borrowing which we cannot all expenditure incurred by IPSA since its inception, sustain. Future funding for the Decent Homes programme would not provide an accurate reflection of the transaction will be decided in the context of the Government’s cost. IPSA is exploring the best way to present these spending review. data and will provide an average cost per transaction after its first sixth months of operation and again after Business Rates: Small Businesses its first full year. 23. Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Winnick: To ask the hon. Member for Communities and Local Government what steps he is Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for taking to assist small businesses with payment of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority business rate bills. [8523] what further consideration has been given for claims by hon. Members to be made on paper with all supporting Robert Neill: We are doubling the level of small evidence. [8639] business rate relief in England for one year, from 1 October 2010. Over half a million businesses in England Mr Charles Walker: IPSA has advised me that the are expected to benefit, with approximately 345,000 merits of introducing a paper-based system for claiming businesses paying no rates. We are also committed to expenses were considered during the start-up phase of finding a practical way to make SBRR automatic. IPSA. It was concluded that in line with current expectations of IT-led delivery within the public sector, it would be inappropriate to design a new expenses process which Local Authorities: Debt Advice was not based at least in part on an IT-led solution. IPSA remains of the view that an IT-led, rather than 24. Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State paper-based, system is most appropriate. Using an IT-led for Communities and Local Government if he will solution allows IPSA to achieve a high level of transparency assess the effect on the provision of local authority more easily and cheaply than an equivalent manual debt advice services of a reduction in local authority approach. It will also allow any future changes to funding; and if he will make a statement. [8524] processes to be more easily implemented. Robert Neill: Many thousands of indebted clients are IPSA does not intend to introduce a parallel, paper-based helped each week through Government programmes system for MPs’ expenses. such as the Financial Inclusion Fund and the Community Legal Advice service and by local authorities through Mr Winnick: To ask the hon. Member for their support for third party provision. Local authorities Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for are free to make their own decisions about where savings the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in 2010-11 are found. what the average length of time taken by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority is from receipt to payment of a claim by an hon. Housing Market Renewal Member. [8640] Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Charles Walker: As of 13 July 2010, the average Communities and Local Government what plans he time from receipt of correct supporting documents to has for changes to the funding of the Housing Market payment is 15 working days. IPSA’s steady state target Renewal scheme; and if he will make a statement. is for this period to reduce to 12 working days by the [8518] last quarter of 2010. Andrew Stunell: The long-term plans for programmes such as Housing Market Renewal will be set out by the Government after the spending review later in the year. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Decent Homes Programme Strata Homes

17. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what plans he Communities and Local Government what assessment has for the future of the Decent Homes programme. he has made of the value for money of the Homes and [8517] Communities Agency KickStart grant given to Strata Homes in Retford. [8521] Grant Shapps: The Government believe all social housing should meet a minimum standard of decency. Grant Shapps: The Homes and Communities Agency But I must remind the hon. Member that the last (HCA) undertook a rigorous due diligence process to Government left a legacy of a capital investment backlog assess all shortlisted Kickstart schemes. A core eligibility 905W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 906W criteria was value for money. Any scheme, such as 2009-10 Total (£) Strata Homes in Retford, which has passed due diligence will have met these criteria. Thurrock Thames Gateway 996,364 Development Corporation Chief Fire Officers Association West Northamptonshire 360,657 Development Corporation Total 25,690,648 Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much Departmental Location Government funding has been allocated to the Chief Fire Officers’ Association in each year since 2005. [R] [7917] Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether he plans Robert Neill: Funding provided to the Chief Fire to relocate (a) civil servants and (b) Government Officers’ Association since 2005 is as follows: bodies for which his Department is responsible (i) out of London and (ii) to the West Midlands; and if he will £000 make a statement. [8299] National CFOA Resilience1 FiReControl2 Robert Neill: The location of public sector activity and plans for the Government’s estate will be considered 2005-06 815 — 206.6 alongside other public spending issues over the course 2006-07 723.4 — 246.2 of the spending review. 2007-08 760.1 — 199.6 2008-09 505 2,561.1 250.2 Fire Services 2009-10 470 5,420 317.4 3 2010-11 (YTD) — 2,773.3 83.7 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Payments to CFOA National Resilience Ltd to provide the on-going Communities and Local Government (1) what his governance and assurance function for the fire and rescue service’s major national incident capability, including staffing; centralised training; policy is on the proposed transfer of Essex County Fire and asset refresh costs. and Rescue Service Control Centre; and if he will make 2 Secondment of specialist staff to the project. a statement; [8584] 3 Not yet agreed. (2) what his policy is on regionalisation of fire Departmental Legal Costs service control rooms; and if he will make a statement. [8585]

Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I Communities and Local Government how much (a) gave the hon. Member for Coventry South his Department and its predecessors and (b) its (Mr Cunningham) on 17 June 2010, Official Report, agencies and non-departmental public bodies spent on column 526W. legal advice in each year since 1997. [7563] Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: The following table shows total spend Communities and Local Government if the Minister in on legal advice for the last financial year for (a) the his Department with responsibility for the fire service Department and (b) its agencies and non-departmental will meet representatives of fire service trade unions in bodies. Details of expenditure in earlier years could be (a) Southend and (b) Essex to discuss plans for supplied only at disproportionate cost. regionalisation of fire service control rooms; and if he will make a statement. [8586] 2009-10 Total (£)

Communities and Local 9,564,505 Robert Neill: Essex County Fire and Rescue Service, Government as the employer of control room staff, is the local body Government Office Network 54,714 with which the trade unions should discuss plans for Planning Inspectorate 0 fire service control rooms. Fire Service College 41,659 Joint consultative committees have been set up in Queen Elizabeth II Conference 0 many parts of the country to discuss the implications of Centre transfers with representative bodies at the appropriate Housing and Communities 11,913,217 level including, I understand, in Essex and the rest of Agency the East of England. Ordnance Survey 765,889 At the national level, I hold regular meetings with FireBuy 693,685 representative bodies on a range of fire issues, including Audit Commission 0 the FiReControl project. Lease 3,000 Valuation Tribunal Service 55,567 Fire Services: Crimes of Violence Tenant Service Authority 0 Community Development Fund 19,646 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing Ombudsman 24,702 Communities and Local Government how many Standards Board 0 attacks have been recorded on members of fire crews in London Thames Gateway 1,197,041 Development Corporation (a) Essex and (b) the Metropolitan police area of London in each of the last 10 years. [8583] 907W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 908W

Robert Neill: The Department has been collecting impact on the area of reductions in grants this year will figures on attacks on firefighters based on returns from be for the local authority to decide. We have ensured Fire and Rescue Authorities since 2004. The following that councils, including Sunderland, are able to deliver table shows the number of attacks in Essex Fire and essential frontline services by making no changes to the Rescue Authority and London Fire and Emergency £29 billion they receive through formula grant and by Planning Authority reported to the Department. We do increasing flexibility for local spending decisions through not yet have information for 2009-10. removing restrictions on how they spend their money. Number of attacks notified to CLG by year of incident and FRA Local Government: Manpower 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Essex n/a 17 17 6 15 Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for London n/a 10 15 6 11 Communities and Local Government what recent estimate he has made of the proportion of local authority staff in the category of (a) employed and Government Office for the North East (b) contracted out under agreements which have time to run the terms and conditions of which cannot be Mr Alan Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for changed in the next three years. [8630] Communities and Local Government what plans he has for the future of the Government office for the Robert Neill: The information requested is not held north-east. [8654] centrally. The terms and conditions of local authority staff are matters for each council as the employer. Robert Neill: The coalition Government’s ‘programme for government’ published on 20 May stated that Non-domestic Rates “we will abolish the Government office for London and consider the case for abolishing the remaining Government offices”. Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for We are currently discussing this with interested parties, Communities and Local Government with reference to including the trades unions. the Budget Red Book 2010, page 27, section 1.67, when the Government plan to bring forward legislation to This proposal is part of our broad agenda on cancel backdated business rates bills for newly assessed decentralisation, transferring power and influence to properties that were split from a larger rateable local people and local authorities, and removing the property. [8559] bureaucracy of the regional state. Local Government Finance Robert Neill: We are committed to bringing forward primary legislation at the earliest opportunity to cancel the backdated element of certain backdated business Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for rates bills. Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of the (a) number of redundancies and (b) Planning the Government’s planned changes in the level of redundancy payments which would be required to Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for make the Government’s planned savings in local Communities and Local Government when his government expenditure. [8558] Department plans to publish its National Planning Framework; and if he will make a statement. [8307] Robert Neill: Savings in local government expenditure— and the implications of those savings—are being considered Greg Clark: In the coalition agreement the Government as part of the spending review. Redundancy decisions stated that they will publish and present to Parliament a are for individual councils to take within the discretions simple and consolidated national planning framework provided by the Local Government (Early Termination covering all forms of development. Work is under way of Employment) (Discretionary Compensation) (England to prepare this framework and it will be presented to and Wales) Regulations 2006. Parliament when it is complete. We will be making an announcement on how we propose to take forward the Local Government Finance: Sunderland national planning framework and the implications for specific areas of planning policy. Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to Property Development: Floods written ministerial statement of 10 June 2010, Official Report, columns 16-17WS, on the local government Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for savings package, what assessment he has made of the Communities and Local Government when he next effects on Sunderland local authority of the reduction plans to review planning guidance in relation to in the funding allocated by his Department to the development on flood plains. [8884] Working Neighbourhoods Fund. [8242] Robert Neill: The coalition programme states that the Robert Neill: Tackling the UK’s record deficit is the Government will radically reform the planning system Government’s top priority, and we believe that it is right to give neighbourhoods far more ability to determine that local authorities make a contribution to the efficiency the shape of the places in which their inhabitants live. savings of £6.2 billion in 2010-11. We have adopted a The programme also states that the Government will fair approach to the reductions in grants and funding prevent unnecessary building in areas of high flood streams and have limited the amount councils lose. The risk. We will publish and present to Parliament a simple 909W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 910W and consolidated national planning policy framework Whether any televised debates are additionally held covering all forms of development and setting out national would be a matter for discussion between potential economic, environmental and social priorities. We will participants and television broadcasters closer to the make an announcement on how we propose to take time. forward the national planning framework and the implications for specific areas of planning policy shortly. Thomas Docherty: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he will estimate the costs to the public purse other Rescue Services: Finance than those borne by central Government arising from administration of the proposed referendum on Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for adopting the alternative vote system for general Communities and Local Government how much public elections in respect of (a) local authorities in (i) funding was provided for urban search and rescue England, (ii) Scotland, (iii) Wales and (iv) Northern teams deployed overseas in each of the last three Ireland, (b) the Scottish Executive and (c) the Welsh financial years. [7912] Assembly Government. [7169]

Mr Duncan: I have been asked to reply. Mr Harper: No such estimate has been made, but The Department for International Development (DFID) savings from combination are shared between all polls. I has provided funding for search and rescue in two refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 14 July emergency responses since 2007-08: 2010, Official Report, column 798W. (i) £233,000 for the Indonesia Pedang earthquake in September Pete Wishart: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister 2009; and what estimate he has made of the cost to the public (ii) £451,000 in January 2010 for the Haiti earthquake. purse of the proposed referendum on electoral reform DFID has also provided £60,000 in both 2007-08 and when (a) held on its own and (b) combined with 2008-09 and £80,410 in 2009-10 to the UK fire and elections to the devolved bodies. [8444] rescue service to maintain preparedness and readiness to deploy within 12 hours. Mr Harper: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 14 July 2010, Official Report, column 798W.

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER WOMEN AND EQUALITIES Departmental Speeches Equal Pay: Gender Angela Smith: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister which (a) (i) civil servants and (ii) special advisers in his Office and (b) other individuals are employed to Yvette Cooper: To ask the Minister for Women and write speeches for each Minister in his Office. [7299] Equalities what steps the Government is taking to reduce the gender pay gap; and if she will make a The Deputy Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member statement. [6906] to the answer given by the Minister for the Cabinet Office earlier today. Mrs May [holding answer 8 July 2010]: In the Coalition’s programme for government, we set out our commitment Electoral Commission to promote equal pay and to take a range of measures to end discrimination in the workplace. In October we will bring section 77 of the Equality Act 2010 into force, Mr Jenkin: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister ensuring employees can discuss their own pay freely in whether he plans to bring forward proposals for the order to discover whether their pay is discriminatory. abolition or reform of the Electoral Commission. We are considering what further measures are necessary [8631] to ensure equal pay between women and men and ensure the fair treatment of women in the workplace. Mr Harper: The Government have set out a major programme of political reform and will consider the We will also take other steps to improve the position implications for the delivery of elections in due course. of women at work, for example by extending the right to request flexible working and encouraging shared Electoral Systems: Referendums parenting, including the promotion of a system of flexible parental leave. Thomas Docherty: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what consideration he has given to the merits of Equality: Legislation participation by Ministers in televised debates as part of the campaign for a proposed referendum on the Yvette Cooper: To ask the Minister for Women and adoption of the alternative vote system for voting at Equalities what plans she has to enforce the positive general elections. [7168] action clauses of the Equality Act 2010. [7098]

Mr Harper: The Political Parties, Elections and Mrs May [holding answer 12 July 2010]: The general Referendums Act 2000 provides that each designated positive action provisions in the Equality Act 2010, lead campaign organisation at a referendum is entitled together with the positive action provisions for political to referendum campaign broadcasts. parties will come into force in October 2010. 911W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 912W

We are currently considering our next steps in relation Mr Gauke: The approved mileage allowance payments to the positive action provisions relating specifically to (AMAPs) system was introduced in April 2002 and the recruitment and promotion, and we will make an rate has remained unchanged since that date. announcement in due course. The Government keep the rates under regular review. The Government consider that the mileage rates are sufficiently high to cover the business motoring expenses TREASURY of most drivers. Bank Levy Cheques Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what criteria he plans to use to define the Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Chancellor of the institutions and companies which are to be subject to Exchequer if he will make representations to the the proposed banking levy; and whether he proposes Payments Council to reverse its decision to withdraw that all lending institutions should fall within this cheques. [8093] definition. [7043] Mr Hoban: As announced at the Budget, the Government Mr Hoban: The Payments Council has not taken a will shortly be consulting on the technical details of the decision to withdraw cheques. It will decide in 2016 design and implementation of the bank levy. The whether to close the cheque clearing system by 2018. consultation document is available at Cheques should only be withdrawn if suitable alternatives http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/consult_bank_levy.htm are available. Some of the alternatives have yet to be The levy will apply to banks, building societies and developed, and these must be tested and shown to be banking groups. It will not apply to other forms of working successfully. The Payments Council will report lending institution and there are no plans at present to on this and the Government are monitoring progress. extend its scope. Banks: Finance Child Benefit

Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Chancellor of the Barbara Keeley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the cost to the Exchequer has been of Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2010, support to the banking industry during the recent Official Report, column 183W, on child benefit, when economic downturn; and whether these costs will be he expects to be able to provide figures for the number reimbursed through the sale of equity in the banks. of (a) mothers who receive child benefit and (b) [2101] children who trigger payments in Worlsey and Eccles South constituency. [8095] Mr Hoban: The impact on the Exchequer of the financial interventions and Bank of England schemes were published in annex B of the June Budget Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexb.pdf. Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2010, Official Report, column 183W, on child benefit, when HM Treasury will publish an updated estimate of the he expects to publish figures for the number of (a) cost of financial sector interventions in future Budgets. mothers who receive child benefit and (b) children who Budget Responsibility Committee trigger child benefit payments in Houghton and Sunderland South constituency. [8182] Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the selection process was for members Mr Gauke: The next publication covering the number of the Budget Responsibility Committee who took the of families receiving child benefit from August 2010 is final decision on appointment of the members; and on due to be published on HMRC’s website in February what terms and conditions these members were 2011. This will include analysis by the latest parliamentary appointed. [8107] constituencies. The latest information on the number of families Justine Greening: The appointments to the interim receiving child benefit, by each parliamentary constituency, Budget Responsibility Committee (BRC) were undertaken local authority and region is available in the HMRC on an expedited basis to ensure the Office for Budget snapshot publication “Child Benefit Statistics Geographical Responsibility could perform its functions for the emergency Analysis. August 2009”. This can be found at: Budget. The Treasury appointed Geoffrey Dicks and Graham Parker at the recommendation of Sir Alan http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- Budd. The terms and conditions for the interim BRC aug09.pdf members are available at: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/8174.htm Child Benefit: Dudley Car Allowances Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Fiona Bruce: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many households on low incomes in (a) Dudley if he will bring forward proposals to increase from 40p borough and (b) Dudley North constituency have per mile for the first 10,000 miles the rate at which received child benefit in each of the last five years. employees may use their own vehicles tax free. [8627] [8274] 913W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 914W

Mr Gauke: This information is available only at Corporation Tax disproportionate cost. The latest information on the number of families Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the receiving child benefit, by each parliamentary constituency, Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect local authority and region is available in the HMRC on each industrial sector of the proposed reforms to snapshot publication ‘Child Benefit Statistics Geographical the corporation tax regime in the June 2010 Budget. Analysis. August 2009’. This can be found at: [6406] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- aug09.pdf Mr Gauke: The reforms to the corporate tax regime announced at the emergency Budget show that the UK is open for business. The impact of the corporate tax Child Tax Credit: West Midlands reforms will vary across industrial sectors depending on their capital intensity and profitability. The corporate tax burden will fall by over £2 billion per year once all Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the measures have fully taken effect. The manufacturing, how many families in (a) the West Midlands, (b) sector will see a significant reduction in its corporate Dudley borough and (c) Dudley North constituency tax burden. have received child tax credit in each of the last five years. [8393] Departmental Buildings Mr Gauke: Estimates of the average number of recipient families and their entitlements to tax credits, by county, Robert Halfon: To ask the Chancellor of the local authority and parliamentary constituency, for 2006-10, Exchequer how much his Department and its agencies are available in the HMRC snapshot publications “Child have spent on relaxation rooms in their properties in and Working Tax Credits Statistics Geographical Analyses each year since 1997. [7130] April 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010”. These are available on the HMRC website at: Justine Greening: Neither the Treasury nor its agencies http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- have incurred any expenditure on relaxation rooms stats.htm since 2002-03. Information on spending prior to that date is not available due to a change in accounting Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer system. how many families in (a) Dudley borough and (b) Dudley North constituency in the income band of Departmental Data Protection £41,000 to £50,000 have received child tax credit in each of the last five years. [8394] Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his Department retains information on its former Mr Gauke: Analysis of the number of households employees who worked on tax policy who have (a) with incomes between £41,000 and £50,000 in the resigned and (b) retired and subsequently found aforementioned constituencies is shown in the following employment in (i) tax advisory companies and (ii) tax table. This information is based on provisional information law practices. [8137] of families receiving tax credits. Families receiving tax credits with incomes between £41,000 and Justine Greening: HM Treasury would only retain £50,000 this information on ex-employees working on tax policy Dudley North Dudley borough if within two years of leaving they were being considered for any employment for which they would be required 2006 535 1,800 to seek permission under the HM Treasury Business 2007 575 2,110 Appointment Rules. 2008 540 2,095 The Advisory Committee on Business Appointment 2009 595 2,345 Rules publishes this information on an annual basis and 2010 620 2,335 is available online at: http://acoba.independent.gov.uk/publications.aspx Further details about the snapshot data used for this analysis can be found in the HMRC snapshot publications ‘Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics Geographical Departmental Reorganisation Analyses April 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010’. These are available at: John Mann: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- if he will take steps to relocate officials working in his stats.htm Department from central London to Bassetlaw. [6560]

Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Departmental Reorganisation how many businesses in (a) the West Midlands, (b) Dudley Borough and (c) Dudley North constituency Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer claim child tax credit. [8397] whether he plans to relocate (a) civil servants and (b) Government bodies for which his Department is Mr Gauke: Businesses are not entitled to claim child responsible (i) out of London and (ii) to the West tax credits. Midlands; and if he will make a statement. [8293] 915W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 916W

Justine Greening: The location of public sector activity of the projects not selected for suspension or cancellation and plans for the Government’s estate will be considered as part of this exercise has been deposited in the Library alongside other public spending issues over the course of the House (DEP2010-1327). of the Spending Review. Tax Avoidance: Self-employed Rents: Edinburgh Philip Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will bring forward proposals to repeal Exchequer what estimate he has made of the (a) 50th the IR35 legislative provisions on intermediaries. [8367] percentile rent in 2010-11 and (b) 30th percentile rent in 2011-12 for properties of (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) three, Mr Gauke: The Government confirmed in the emergency (iv) four and (v) five bedrooms in Edinburgh East Budget that they are committed to carrying out a review constituency. [8188] of IR35. Further details will be announced shortly.

Mr Gauke: This is a matter for the devolved Taxation: Business Administration. Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Revenue and Customs: Northern Ireland how many businesses in (a) the West Midlands and (b) Dudley borough had used the HM Revenue and Mr Dodds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Customs’ Time to Pay programme on the most recent what recent estimate he has made of the annual date for which figures are available. [8396] expenditure by HM Revenue and Customs on (a) rent, (b) rates and (c) maintenance in relation to premises Mr Gauke: HMRC collates information on the number in Northern Ireland. [7172] and value of time to pay arrangements granted through the Business Payment Support Service (BPSS). Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs’ (HMRC) At any point in time a business may have more than estimate of expenditure for 2010-11 in relation to its one arrangement covering its different tax liabilities. A premises in Northern Ireland is given in the following business may be granted a number of successive table. arrangements. Estimated expenditure 2010-11 Following contact with the BPSS between 24 November Expenditure type £000, net of VAT 2008 and 4 July 2010: 30,900 arrangements spreading payments covering tax debts Mapeley contract unitary charge 5,112 worth £540 million have been granted to businesses in the west Rent 691 midlands; and Rates 1,387 1,870 arrangements spreading payments covering tax debts Maintenance 237 worth £39 million have been granted to businesses in Dudley borough. The majority of HMRC’s premises in Northern Ireland, along with the rest of its estate, were included in the Taxation: Holiday Accommodation 2001 Strategic Transfer of the Estate to the Private Sector (STEPS) outsourcing deal with Mapeley. Under Mr Weir: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) the terms of the contract with Mapeley, HMRC receives what date he has set for the conclusion of his the benefit of fully serviced and maintained accommodation Department’s consultation on the tax treatment of in exchange for an inclusive, property specific unitary furnished holiday lettings; [8380] charge. As HMRC do not make separate rent or maintenance payments the estimated annual unitary (2) with reference to the answer of 16 December charge expenditure has been provided for these premises. 2009, Official Report, column 1383W, on taxation: holiday accommodation, how many responses (a) his HMRC occupies four premises in Northern Ireland Department and (b) HM Revenue and Customs by way of sharing arrangements with other Government received from operators of long-term residential lets on Departments. For three of these properties—Crown proposals to extend furnished holiday lettings relief to Buildings, Antrim; Windsor House, Belfast; and Crown operators of self-catering holiday properties; and how Buildings, Omagh—the accommodation charge incurred many such responses sought the abolition of such is fully inclusive and the rent and maintenance costs relief; [8381] cannot be separately identified. These costs are included in the estimate of rent expenditure, in line with how (3) with reference to the answer of 5 January 2010, they are reported in HMRC’s accounts. Official Report, column 177W, on taxation: holiday accommodation, who the interested parties were with Royal Liverpool University Hospital whom meetings were held; [8382] (4) if he will direct HM Revenue and Customs to Mrs Ellman: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer examine the tax treatment of rented furnished whether his Department’s review of recent expenditure accommodation in French law for the purposes of its decisions will include a review of planned funding to consultation on compliance of UK rules with EU law; rebuild Royal Liverpool University Hospital. [144] [8435] (5) if he will direct HM Revenue and Customs to Danny Alexander [holding answer 2 June 2010]: The write to each respondent to the original consultation Government have now completed its review spending on furnished holiday letting rules to invite a response commitments approved since 1 January 2010. A full list to the fresh consultation. [8450] 917W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 918W

Mr Gauke: The Government will hold a public Table 2: The number of enterprises registering for VAT each year consultation over the summer on the furnished holiday 200520062007 lettings tax rules. The consultation will last for 12 West 14,815 14,785 15,720 weeks. midlands Government Ministers and officials have discussions region and meetings with a wide variety of organisations as West 6,245 6,185 6,540 part of the process of policy development and delivery. midlands It is not the Government’s practice to provide details of county all representations made or meetings held. Borough of 780 765 785 Dudley HM Revenue and Customs is aware of the French Dudley North 180 165 210 system for taxing furnished accommodation. The Government do not intend to write to everybody These figures came from the report ‘Business Start-ups who responded to the 2009 consultation but we will act and Closures: VAT Registrations and De-registrations’, to publicise the consultation and ensure the main tourism published by The Department for Businesses Enterprise industry groups are told when the documents are published and Regulatory Reform in November 2008. This report so they can alert their members. is no longer published. Welfare Tax Credits VAT: Construction Barbara Keeley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2010, Alison Seabeck: To ask the Chancellor of the Official Report, column 186W, on welfare tax credits, Exchequer if he will estimate the effect on the number when he expects to be able to publish information on of jobs in the construction sector of a reduction of five the number of households in Worsley and Eccles South per cent. in the standard rate of value added tax. constituency which receive tax credits. [8096] [8373] Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Gauke: No such estimate has been made. Exchequer (1) pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2010, However, to compensate for the revenue lost from Official Report, column 186W, on welfare tax credit, reducing the standard rate of VAT by 5%, an increase in when he expects to provide figures for the number of another tax would be needed. Since VAT is a relatively households in Houghton and Sunderland South efficient tax, economically, the net result with an increase constituency which receive tax credits; [8378] of another tax would be the likely loss of jobs across the (2) pursuant to the answer of 7 July 2010, Official economy. Report, columns 298-9W, on welfare tax credit, when he expects to be able to provide figures for the number of households in Houghton and Sunderland South VAT: West Midlands constituency who receive tax credits and have an income of over £30,000. [8379] Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Gauke: The information requested will be available how many businesses in (a) the West Midlands, (b) from the HMRC website in December 2010. This will Dudley borough and (c) Dudley North constituency include analysis by the latest parliamentary constituencies. were registered for value added tax in each of the last three years for which figures are available; and how The latest information on the number of families many new businesses registered for value added tax in with children benefiting from child and working tax the same period. [8207] credits, by each parliamentary constituency, local authority and region is available in the HMRC snapshot publication ‘Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics. Geographical Mr Gauke: The existing population of VAT registered Analyses. April 2010’. This can be found at: businesses and the number of businesses that registered for VAT during the year, for years since 2005, is shown http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- for the west midlands region; the west midlands apr2010.pdf metropolitan county; the borough of Dudley; and Dudley Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer North constituency in the following two tables. what estimate he has made of the number of Table 1: The number of enterprises registered for VAT at the start of households which will lose income as a result of the the year implementation of his proposals to (a) reduce the tax 2005 2006 2007 2008 credit second income threshold to £40,000, (b) increase West 157,585 160,780 163,405 167,075 the first and second withdrawal rate to 41 per cent., (c) midlands taper the family element of child tax credit immediately region after the child element, (d) remove the baby element of West 60,195 61,375 62,325 63,500 child tax credit, (e) remove the 50 plus element of midlands working tax credit, (f) reverse the child tax credit county supplement for children aged one and two years, (g) Borough of 7,950 8,125 8,255 8,420 reduce the income disregard from (i) £25,000 to Dudley £10,000, (ii) £10,000 to £5,000, (h) introduce an Dudley 1,715 1,765 1,770 1,840 North income disregard of £2,500 for falls in income and (i) reduce the backdating of tax credits for changes of 919W Written Answers15 JULY 2010 Written Answers 920W circumstances from three months to one month in each copy of which is available in the House of Commons year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; and what estimate he Library and will be published on HMRC’s website has made of the average change in total household shortly. income consequent on the implementation of each Welfare Tax Credits: Scotland such proposal in each such year in (A) cash and (B) real terms in (1) the West Midlands, (2) Dudley borough and (3) Dudley North constituency. [8392] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given credits in each parliamentary constituency in Scotland to the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen have an income of over £30,000. [8760] Goodman) on 28 June 2010, Official Report, column 460W. Mr Gauke: This information is published in the HMRC publication “Household Income distribution of Tax Welfare Tax Credits: Dudley Credits families by Westminster Constituency—April 2010”, a copy of which is available in the House of Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Commons Library and will be published on HMRC’s what assessment he has made of the effect of the website shortly. implementation of proposals in the June 2010 Budget Welfare Tax Credits: Stirling on those resident in (a) Dudley borough and (b) Dudley North constituency who are in receipt of (i) child benefit and (ii) tax credits; and if he will make a Mrs McGuire: To ask the Chancellor of the statement. [8276] Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax credits in Stirling have an income of over £30,000. Mr Gauke: The information requested is not available. [8313] The effect of the Budget is modelled based on data from the Family Resources Survey, which does not Mr Gauke: The number of households in receipt of contain a large enough sample to produce results at a tax credits in Stirling with an income over £30,000 as at local authority or constituency level. April 2010 was 2,090. These estimates are based on provisional information Ian Austin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on families receiving tax credits as at April 2010. Further how many families in (a) Dudley borough and (b) details about this data can be found in the HMRC Dudley North constituency in the annual income band snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax Credits. of (i) £10,000 to £20,000, (ii) £21,000 to £30,000, (iii) Geographical Analysis, April 2010”. This is available at: £31,000 to £40,000, (iv) £41,000 to £50,000, (v) £51,000 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- to £60,000 and (vi) £60,000 or more are in receipt of stats.htm tax credits. [8395] Working Tax Credit Mr Gauke: This information is published in the HMRC publication ‘Household Income distribution of Tax Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the Credits families by Westminster Constituency—April Exchequer what estimate he made of the number of 2010’, a copy of which is available in the House of (a) working tax credit over-payments and (b) changes Commons Library and will be published on HMRC’s to levels of earnings disregard in each of the last three website shortly. years. [8120] Welfare Tax Credits: Edinburgh Mr Gauke: The number of tax credits awards that were overpaid, from 2003-04 to 2008-09, are available in Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Chancellor of the the HMRC publication ‘Child and Working Tax Credits Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax Statistics. Finalised Annual Awards 2008-09. Supplement credits in Edinburgh East constituency have an income on Payments in 2008-09’. This is available at: of over £30,000. [8178] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-final- awards-supp-may10.pdf Mr Gauke: This information is published in the HMRC The disregard for income rises has remained at £25,000 publication ‘Household income distribution of tax credits since 2006-07. It will decrease to £10,000 in 2011-12, families by Westminster constituency—April 2010’, a and then to £5,000 in 2013-14.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 15 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 1069 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Business Rates (Small Businesses)...... 1071 continued Government Office for the North West ...... 1076 Planning...... 1077 Home Information Packs ...... 1069 Regional Spatial Strategies...... 1073 Housing Benefit ...... 1080 Regional Spatial Strategies...... 1082 Housing Market Renewal ...... 1078 Third Sector (Funding) ...... 1081 Landlords/Agents (Regulation)...... 1070 Topical Questions ...... 1083 Local Authorities (Administrative Burden)...... 1081 Travellers (Local Authority Powers)...... 1079 Non-departmental Public Bodies ...... 1074 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 15 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 35WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 41WS London Development Agency (Savings 2010-11) ... 36WS European Union: Explanatory Memoranda South West and Yorkshire and Humber Regional 9June2010-9July2010...... 41WS Committees...... 35WS HEALTH...... 41WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 37WS Use of Overseas Doctors (Out-of-hours Services).. 41WS East Midlands, South East and West Midlands Regional Committee ...... 37WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 42WS Immigration Rules ...... 42WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 40WS Broadband Industry Day ...... 40WS TRANSPORT ...... 43WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 40WS Crossrail: Annual Update ...... 43WS Draft Energy National Policy Statements (Consultation)...... 40WS TREASURY ...... 36WS Removing Requirement to Annuitise by age 75...... 37WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Terrorist Asset-Freezing...... 36WS AFFAIRS...... 41WS Centre for Environment, Fisheries and WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 43WS Aquaculture Science ...... 41WS Social Fund Reports (2009-10)...... 43WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 15 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 862W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 862W Further Education: Finance...... 882W Departmental Official Cars...... 862W Members: Correspondence ...... 882W Departmental Training ...... 863W One NorthEast...... 882W Regional Development Agencies...... 883W Regional Development Agencies: West Midlands .. 883W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 873W Sector Skills Councils...... 883W Advantage West Midlands ...... 873W Sixth Form Colleges: Capital Investment ...... 884W Apprentices...... 874W Takeovers...... 884W Apprentices: West Midlands ...... 875W Vocational Training: West Midlands ...... 885W Batteries: Recycling...... 875W Business: Bexley ...... 877W CABINET OFFICE...... 870W Business: Government Assistance ...... 877W Business: Bexley...... 870W Business Links ...... 876W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 870W Business Links: Expenditure ...... 876W Departmental Speeches...... 870W Business: North East...... 877W Departmental Training ...... 871W Business: Regulation ...... 877W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Norwich ...... 871W Companies...... 878W Lone Parents: Birmingham ...... 872W Companies: Registration...... 879W Lone Parents: Milton Keynes...... 872W Electric Vehicles ...... 880W National Citizen Service...... 873W Finance Yorkshire...... 880W Foreign Investment in UK: North West ...... 881W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 903W Further Education ...... 882W Business Rates: Small Businesses ...... 904W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— continued continued Chief Fire Officers Association...... 905W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 855W Decent Homes Programme ...... 903W Departmental Private Roads...... 856W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 905W Domestic Waste: Recycling ...... 857W Departmental Location...... 906W Genetically Modified Organisms...... 858W Fire Services...... 906W GM Inspectorate: Expenditure ...... 858W Fire Services: Crimes of Violence...... 906W Inland Waterways: Dredging...... 859W Government Office for the North East...... 907W Phytophthora Ramorum...... 860W Housing Market Renewal ...... 904W Public Sector: Procurement...... 861W Local Authorities: Debt Advice...... 904W Salmon...... 861W Local Government Finance ...... 907W Local Government Finance: Sunderland ...... 907W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 863W Local Government: Manpower...... 908W Anti-Semitism...... 863W Non-domestic Rates...... 908W Armenia: Genocide...... 864W Planning...... 908W Cyprus ...... 864W Property Development: Floods ...... 908W Departmental Location...... 864W Rescue Services: Finance...... 909W Departmental Lost Property ...... 864W Strata Homes ...... 904W Departmental Offices...... 865W Departmental Sick Leave ...... 865W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 828W Diplomatic Service: Redundancy ...... 867W Arts: Employment...... 828W Gaza ...... 867W Digital Broadcasting: Radio...... 828W Iran...... 867W Mass Media: Reviews...... 828W Iran: Baha’i Faith...... 867W Music: Finance ...... 828W Iran: Capital Punishment...... 868W Iran: Human Rights...... 868W DEFENCE...... 817W Iraq: Embassies...... 868W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 817W Iraq: Embassies...... 868W Armed Forces: Families ...... 818W Kyrgyzistan: Politics and Government ...... 869W Armed Forces: Health Services ...... 819W Michael Binnington and Luke Atkinson...... 869W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 820W USA: Pakistan ...... 869W Armed Forces: Northern Ireland ...... 820W Yemen: Counter-terrorism ...... 870W Armed Forces: Vocational Guidance...... 819W Departmental Lost Property ...... 821W HEALTH...... 885W Ex-Servicemen: West Midlands...... 821W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse...... 885W Red Arrows...... 821W Continuing Care ...... 885W Reserve Forces ...... 821W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 886W Departmental Official Cars...... 886W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 909W Departmental Training ...... 886W Departmental Speeches...... 909W Departmental Travel ...... 887W Electoral Commission...... 909W General Practitioners ...... 888W Electoral Systems: Referendums ...... 909W NHS...... 889W NHS: Discharges ...... 889W EDUCATION...... 894W Patient (Assisted Dying) Bill ...... 889W Academies...... 894W Prescriptions ...... 890W Academies: Salisbury ...... 894W Tobacco ...... 890W Departmental Buildings...... 894W Tobacco: Young People...... 891W Departmental ICT ...... 895W Departmental NDPBs...... 895W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 834W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 896W British Crime Survey...... 834W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 896W Community Policing ...... 834W Departmental Speeches...... 897W Crime: Anti-Semitism ...... 834W Departmental Training ...... 897W Criminal Records: Vetting...... 835W Health Education...... 897W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 835W Parents: Local Government Services...... 897W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 836W Schools ...... 898W Football Banning Orders ...... 836W Schools: Discipline...... 901W Forensic Science: DNA ...... 836W Schools: Finance...... 901W Forgery: Coinage...... 837W Schools: Management...... 902W Fraud: Credit Cards...... 838W Young People: Unemployed...... 902W Immigration...... 838W Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill...... 838W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 846W Prosecutions: Anti-Semitism ...... 838W Office for Renewable Energy Development ...... 846W Oil Rigs...... 847W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 847W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 902W Wind Power ...... 848W Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority: Members...... 902W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 854W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 891W Agriculture: Research...... 854W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 891W Bees...... 855W Democratic Republic of Congo: Forestry ...... 891W Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued TREASURY—continued Departmental Manpower...... 892W Banks: Finance ...... 911W Forests: Carbon Emissions...... 893W Budget Responsibility Committee...... 911W Haiti: Earthquakes...... 893W Car Allowances...... 911W Overseas Trade: Ethics ...... 894W Cheques ...... 912W Child Benefit...... 912W JUSTICE...... 822W Child Benefit: Dudley ...... 912W Crime: Voluntary Work...... 822W Child Tax Credit: West Midlands...... 913W Critchley: Gary ...... 822W Corporation Tax ...... 914W Crown Dependency...... 823W Departmental Buildings...... 914W European Court of Human Rights ...... 823W Departmental Data Protection...... 914W Extradition: Cyprus ...... 823W Departmental Reorganisation...... 914W Magistrates Courts: Closures ...... 824W Departmental Reorganisation...... 914W Offences Against Children ...... 824W Rents: Edinburgh ...... 915W Prison Sentences: Drugs...... 825W Revenue and Customs: Northern Ireland...... 915W Sark: Politics and Government...... 827W Royal Liverpool University Hospital...... 915W Unpaid Fines: Staffordshire ...... 827W Tax Avoidance: Self-employed ...... 916W Taxation: Business ...... 916W PRIME MINISTER ...... 845W Taxation: Holiday Accommodation...... 916W Departmental Responsibilities: Armed Forces ...... 845W VAT: Construction...... 917W Official Gifts ...... 845W VAT: West Midlands ...... 917W Public Sector...... 846W Welfare Tax Credits...... 918W Welfare Tax Credits: Dudley ...... 919W SCOTLAND...... 815W Welfare Tax Credits: Edinburgh...... 919W Departmental Civil Servants...... 815W Welfare Tax Credits: Scotland...... 920W Departmental ICT ...... 815W Welfare Tax Credits: Stirling ...... 920W Departmental Meetings ...... 816W Working Tax Credit ...... 920W Departmental Utilities ...... 816W Economic Situation: Scotland...... 815W WALES...... 832W Merchant Shipping ...... 816W Departmental Buildings...... 832W Trade Unions: Shipbuilding ...... 817W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 833W Voting Systems: Scotland...... 817W Departmental Official Cars...... 833W Fabian Plant: Closures ...... 833W Housing Revenue Accounts ...... 833W TRANSPORT ...... 829W Airports: Security...... 829W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 910W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 829W Equal Pay: Gender...... 910W Coventry-Nuneaton Railway Line...... 829W Equality: Legislation...... 910W Departmental Buildings...... 830W Departmental Conferences...... 830W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 848W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 830W Allergies: Lost Working Days ...... 848W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 830W Disability Living Allowance...... 848W Departmental Training ...... 830W Housing Benefit ...... 849W Departmental Visual Arts ...... 830W Housing Benefit: Greater London...... 850W Government Car and Despatch Agency...... 831W Housing Benefit: Hampstead ...... 851W Hucknall Inner Relief Road...... 831W Housing Benefit: Worcestershire ...... 851W Railways: Fares ...... 832W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Lone Parents ...... 852W Speed Limits: Urban Areas...... 832W Pensioners: West Sussex ...... 852W Social Security Benefits: Disability...... 852W TREASURY ...... 911W Social Security Benefits: Motherwell...... 854W Bank Levy...... 911W Social Security Benefits: Uprating...... 853W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Thursday 15 July 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1069] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government

Business of the House [Col. 1089] Statement—(Sir George Young)

Superannuation [Col. 1105] Bill presented, and read the First time

Finance Bill [Col. 1106] Considered in Committee

Decent Homes (Hillingdon) [Col. 1189] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Defamation Law [Col. 323WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 35WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 815W] [see index inside back page]