Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 18 JUNE 1918

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Illness of Clerk. (18 JUNE.] Questions. 309

QUESTIOXS. SALE OF 1\Iol:XT HcTTOX STOCK.

Mr. VOWLES (Da/l;y) a~ked the Secre­ tary for Public LandB- " 1. Has the Government sold or agreed to sdl anv of the Mount Hutton stock to any pe1·son or pers0ns? " 2. If so, who is the purchaser? "3. \Vhat number and what descrip­ tion of stock have been so sold or agree-d to be ,,,J]d ·; "4. How many and what dhcription of stock ha>e bc0n delivered to the pur­ chaocr to dat.-,? " 5. IV ere the terms and conditions of this <·ale rcduc

HoK. J. M. HUKTER. for the Secretary for Public Lands, replied­ " 1. Yes. " 2. J. Motrissey and Sons. '' 3. 9, 700 of both sexes. " 4. -, ,858 of both sexes. '' 5. Yes. " 6. It is not customary to table copies of ag,ee;nents, but the hon. member ear­ peruse this agreement if h

RESD!PTIO:t; OF Sl:Nl'

HoN. J. M. HCNTER. for the Secretary for Public Lands, replied- " 1 to 3. The hon. member may not be LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. aware that his question will involve the typing of some 118 folios of evidence, which I consider would be a needless TnsDAY, 18 Jc"E, 1918. expense. If he will call at the Lands Department. the evidence and papers in the case will be available for his perusal." The DEPLTY SPEAKER (:Mr. \V. Bertram Maree) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.' SOLDIERS' PROXIES. ILLNESS OF CLERK. Mr. SI:T.ER (lYu.ndah) asked the Assistant The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to in­ Minister for Justice- ~orlll: the House that the Clerk will not be " 1. \Vas a proxy vote from Robert m h1s place to-day, owing to illness. Alexander MacCracken, or Robert Alexander McCracken, a soldier in The ACTING PREMIER (Hon. E. G. France, and .whose name as aforesaid 'Theodore) : I beg to move-That the Clerk­ appears on both thE) Townsville main and Assistant perform the duties of tht: Clerk supplementary rolls, in favour of his ,during his absence. father, R. B. li'IacCracken, of Townsville, Question put and passed. 310 Qucst~·ans. [ASSEMBLY.]

or any person, advis~d amongst cables unless the applicants or promoters desire received in connection with sddiers' votes to do so by art union, raffi0, lottery, or at recent election? similar devices, and no such application " 2. If so, when was the same so ad­ to this department was made in respect vised? of the 'big strike' referred to." " 3. vV as ::11r. R. B. '\1acCracken ad­ vised thereof, and had he an opportunity "RED TmA~GLE" I~DUSTRIAL HuT. to exercise the vote? Mr. SIZER, for :\Ir. Fry, asked the Acting "4. If not, why not? Premier- " 5. Is he aware that the proxv was " 1. Is he awar<:> that in order to foster given prior to lOth March? • cordial relations between employers and " 6. If the advice wos not received, employees, a ' Rc,d Triangle ' industrial or ::VIr. ::VlacCracken had not an oppor­ hut has recently been formally opened at tunity of exercising the vote, will he the works of the :Mount Lyell Companv. make inquiries as to the ea us<; of such? Yarraville, and thot the employers found the money to build it, the Y.M.C.A. the " 7. \Y as a proxy from Reginald trained staff to man it, same being ad­ Rhodes '\h'ood, a soldier whose name was ministered by a committee of the em­ on the"Kurilpa roll, in favour of James ployees? Shaw, advised by <':tble? " 2. If not, will he cause inquiries to " 8. If so, when was the same so re­ be made with a view of having this ceived? splendid idea carried out by the Govern­ "·9. \Vas Mr. Shaw advised thereof, ment on all their large centres of railway and had he an opportunity of casting the and other public works in the State, thus vote? providing hot lunches for the workmen, " 10. If not, why?" costing them only about 1s. lld. per week to each man, and providing a variety of Ho)<. W. ::\'. GILLIES replied- games for the men during their leisure " 1 to 10. Soldier prox::- votes from time?" both the soldiers mentioned w<>re included The ACTING PREMIER replied- in cables received on th'l 17th March last, and no action was therefore taken " 1. I h.avo no official information on in the direction of advising the persons th<> subject. nominate-d.'' "2. The matter will be considered."

COST OF RAILWAY CmnnSSION. THE FISH I~DUSTRY. for Mr. Fry, asked the Mr. GUNN (Garnarvon), for Mr. Morgan, Mr. SIZER, asked the Acting Premier- Treasurer- " 1. Has his attention been called to " 1. The total cost of the Roval Com­ an article appearing in 'The National mission appointed to consider and report Leader' under the headings- on railway administration, including re­ porting, printing, travelling expenses, State Enterprises witnesses' expenses, and .all other Th~ Fieh Industry charges? Fresh Fish for Town and Country " 2. The amount paid respectively to What the Returned Soldiers Propose? each member of the commission?" "2. If his attention has not been so called, will he consider the proposal, with The 'ACTI~G PREMIER replied- the view of determining its adaptability " 1. The total cost to date is £2,430. to the State fish industry of Queens­ " 2. A Dean, chairman, travelling ex­ land?" pen~es, £153; M. J. Kirwan, M.L.A., travelling expenses, £151; F. A. Cooper, The TREAS'CRER (F,!on. E. G. Theodore) M.L.A., travelling expenses, £149." replied- " 1. Yes. ALLOCATIQ)< OF DISTRESS Fu~D. "2. The proposal will receive con­ Mr. GUNS, for Mr. Morgan, asked the sideration." Assistant Minister for Justice- PRICE OF ARSE);IC, " 1. Was permission grantf'd for the purpose of raising funds to .alleviate dis­ Mr. GUNN asked the Minister :represent­ tress alleged to be existing in New South ing the Secretary for Mines- Wales as a result of the big strike? " 1. \Vhat was the pre-war wholesale " 2. If so, to whom ? price of .arsenic per ton? "3. Is he aware that the money so "2. \Vhat is the present price? raised was allotted for purposes other " 3. At what prict; do the Government than the object for which it was sub­ consider they will be able to supply scribed? arsenic to customers from their State " 4. In view of the fact that the monev v.rorks ?" was obtained from the public by false The ACTI::\'G PREMIER replied- pretences, will he make full inquiries into the matter, .and take such steps " 1. In Australia the pre-war prioo against the promoters as the case fluctuated, but generally ranged between n1erits ?" £15 and £20 per ton. "2. Under the Commonwealth War HoN. W. K GILLIES replied- Precautions Regulations the maximum " 1 to 4. It is not the function of the price for metropolitan districts in Aus­ Department of Justice to grant or refuse tralia is now fixed at £60 per ton. permission for the purpose of raising " 3. At considerably less than present­ funds to alleviate any kind of distress, price." Ghillagoe and Etheridge [18 JuNE.] Railways Bill. 3H

WATER FOR SOLDIER SETTLElllENT AT YARRAMAN. before in the Assembly that I do not think it is necessary for me to traverse the whole Mr. GUN::\, for Mr. Moore, asked the o£ the ground again. Secretary for Public Lands- Hon. IV. H. BARKES : A lot of us are new " 1. Has the bore for providing water for the land open for soldier settlement m0mber>. on the racecourse paddock at Yarraman The TREAS'GRER: I shall deal with the been completed? salient points, and if the hon. member ;, ~nts further information on any of the " 2. How many men were employed on matters touched in the agreement, I shall the work? be pleased to give it in Committee, or at "3. How long were they in Yarraman some other stage. in order that ::n.e.mbers in the employ of the department before may be fuJly iniormed ':s t~ what IS m the commencing operations? prop0~ition '\Ve nre consJder1qg. " 4. What was the t

are pushing this proposal, or that I a.m member that, adopting the company's own keenly interested in it myself simply for balance-sheet, during the five years just rhe volitical advantage I can get out Df before the closing down of the smelters the\' it as a result of the increased population made an average profit on the railways of of Chillagoc. 'l'he object is far larger £62,000 a year. They lost on their mining than that, and the motives inspiring the operations and on their smelting operations, Government arc higher than personal but the railway was always a pa.ying proposi­ motin., of that kind. As I have already tion, and a remarkable thing is that even explained when we were ten paving­ that price, and the prDposal now is boiled freights double in some cases the a.mo~mfs down to the terms Embodied in the agree­ charged on the Government railwavs. ment, which amount to the ,purchase of the Hon. W. H. BARNES: And appa~ently the Chillagoe Company's rflilways. the company's company have lost millions of money. rights m·er th" Etheridgc Railway, the smel­ ter'·, and all the subsidiary plant in connec­ The TREASURER: Thev did not lose it tion with the smelters, and the mines and on the railway. I want to assure the hon. leases of the Chillagoe Company, not includ- [Hon. E. G. Theodore. Chillaqoe ani, Etheridge [l 8 Jl:XE.] Railways Bill. 313

·ing th~ Mount :'\Iulligan k .. ses-all for the half thq prices thev paid in 1914. Since then su~n of £476,000. The Commissioner for the :Haunt ::Vlulligan coalfield has been opened Rail\' "'·s ha.s -tatcd that the ,-alue of the up. and the Conunis..;ioner for Railways at .rai],, and. faste11ing" of the ChillaguP Com­ the present tim0 is pm·chnsing. his coal at pany s rmhvays arc worth about the price the pit mouth thoro at 17s. a ton. He had \H' arc pa~·ing for tho whole of the assets. a.n agreement with the Chillagoe Company :\lr. ELPHIC;STOXE: \Vhat weight of rails? to purchase it at 14, per ton, until the Edmunds award increased the price all over The TREASl:RER: I a.m not able to the Commonwealth bv 3s. per ton. However, .an.'"·cr that off hand. take the present price, 17s.,, and compare it l\Ir. Srzm: 60-lb. rails. ,dth v.hat tht1· company had to pay. About The TRE\Sl:RF:R: Probably 60-lb. rails. the time the Chillagoe Company closed down The hon. member will undcrstn spent in scratching. Th" TREAS'CRER: No. The hon. mem­ ber is misinformed. He may be speaking Th0 TREASrRER: Y<:'s. Th<:> Chillagoe about the Cloncurrv district. There is no Company itself expended a considerabk award providing for wages in the Cloncurry amount. I grant that they did not J1ut it district which fixes the rate for surface work out with a desire to be magnanimous to the at 16s. 4d. As a matter of fact. the rate community. No doubt they were inspired by for machine miners underground is 15s. 2d. the same motive which inspires all busineios per day. undertakings-the desire to get a fair return Mr. SrZER: What was underground labour for the investment. But thev met with bad paid at the time the company closed down? luck. That interje<"tion reminds mo of an The TREASURER: Eleven shillings for arf'umcnt which I intend to US<', but which I may as well develop now. \Vhen thev dry work and 12s. for wet work. -dosed down, the copper market »·as at £63 l\Lr. SIZER : Now it is 15s. ? a ton. and lead at £18 a ton. The price now The TREASURER: For machine work. i' :8110 for copper and £29 10s. for lead. i\Ir. SrzER: \Vhat was the wage for the \\hen they closed down, the price of silwr same class of work when they closed down? \Vas about ls. lld. per ounce; to-day it is nearly 4s. If vou take the mineral pro­ The TREASURER : The hon. member duction of tlw Chillagoe district for the year could put hundreds of questions of that kind prior to the time they closed down-in April. which I could not answer offhanded. There 1914-and calculate what it would realise was no award at that time. There was an at present metal prices, deducting the cost agreement between the Australian \Vorkers' of w01·king. you will find that the Chillagoe Union and the yarious companies, and we Company at the same rate of output \vould could onlv arrive at what the hon. member have had a surplus for that year of £200,000. wants by comparing them item by item. But, I only mention this to show the extremely supposing the increase was 25 per cent.­ bad luck with \Yhich the company met. If which would be the outside limit-the fact t hcv had oniv bccen able to continue for a remains that in smelting, especially copper fE'\'1; months. imtil Mount Mulligan had been and silver-lead smelting, the main factors openE'd up and the metal market had firmed are cheap coke and fuel and high prices for a little, they would have been in an excellent metals. The price for lead has practically position, financiallv and in everv other wav. doubled since 1914. while the average price l'lot onlv would thev have been able to realise for copper was £59 per ton in 1914 and now the hiQ'h price' ruiing, but they would al;oo is £110 pE'r ton. That is a point I want to :ha Ye been able to get their fuel at about deal with later on when considering the Hon. E. G. Theodore.] 314 Chillagoe and Ethe1·idge [ASSEMBLY.] prosr"c·ct of future development, which will terested in this question and has read the" largely depend on the production of copper mining journals from different parts of the· or silver-lead or other types of industrial world must have been struck with the unan­ metals. imity of opinion on the question of the future oi the copper market. The copper market :vlr. Poi.LOC'K: They have cheap fluxes. is assured, according to high opinion upon The TREASL:RER : Yes, an;,· amount of this matter, for many ye:trs to come. The chenp fluxeF·, b.caus•: the Chillagoe works world's copper production is at its very were particularly well situated in that regard, highed point to-day. America, of course, having ample supplies at the Mungana is the great copper producer of the world. mi:r:es, only 10 miles a11ay by railway. That ;\ustralia is not an unimportant factor in district is rich in industrial metals, and any copper production, but its production is far mining man will bear out that statement. in a way exceeded by that of the 'Cnited The futur,' of will have States. I think last year the United States to look to ::'\ orth Queensland for its develop­ producerl about 800,000 tons of copper. That ment. 'ThGt is where the large bodies of ore W.IS a renrd production for any yc>ar, and !he are: but in the past they ha Ye been looked authorities in America hold out the opinwn at but not worked, because the or(· was that the market is bound to be sustained, con,,ideled low gradf'-4 per cent. or 5 per becau'e the demand for copper is bound to cent. of copper, and the company were never be sustained and to increase. As a matter of able to touch ore of that grade. The solu­ fact, when the war is over there are such tion of the difficulty as to the stagnation enormous arrears of work in connection with and lack of progress will come when the industries that make use of copper-arrears difficulty of treating low-grade ore is solved. which have accumulated because of the neces­ The difficulty can be solved if metal can be sity of giving attention to munition produc­ sold fo1· fair prices and fuel and coke can tion-which must demand the attention of be got at reasonable rates; and I say that indnstries immediately the war is over in thc> futur.-· is as"ured because there is an such a manner as to ensure an enormous assured high price fo:v silver, lead, and demand for copper for a great many yF>ars copper, and reasonably low prices for coal to come. Copper will never be less than £100 and coke. a ton again. This is a metal-that is used in practically every form of industry. Anyone Mr. SIZER: L:nder normal conditions, what who studies the historv or the development of i~ the lowest-grade ore it is possible to treat the copper industry and the manifold uses it profitably? is put to, must b(! struck by the remark­ The TREAS'CRER: I call the present able progress which is being made. Thirty comlitions normal conditions. vem-;; ago the toteJ con•umption of copper for the whole world was somewhere in thEJ 2\h. SIZER : I mean at the time thev closed vicinitv of 30,000 tons. ::\Tow it runs into down. • almost" a million tons a vear. Enormous f:'he TREASURER: They wer<;l treating quantities arc used in shipbuilding. I was fanly successfully 4 per cent. ore from Einas­ reading an article only recently in the ":New leigh mine and carrying it 100 miles. At York Engineering and Mining Journal," in least I do not know chat thev were treating which it was stated that in every 10,000-ton ~t successfully because they had been work­ iron ship which is built they use 150 tons of mg at a Ios'. But I do not know that a con­ copper in connection with various fittings, sideration of that kind would lead us any­ tubes, valves, bro,s.. ,es, wiring, and elec~rical where. The question is-what can be treated work. That d?mand represents prachcally there in the future? I have already stated the demand of all industries where metals are that in 1914 conditions were abnormal. Prices used. Copper is the most useful metal, and, were falling off. Fuel prices were twice what as a matter of fact. the fee.r is now expre<;:sed, they are to-day in that district. Every ton not that there will be an over-production of of coal used in Chillagoe had to be brought copper, but that therc> will be a copper fan~ine from Newcastle. But since then thev had a within measurabl0 distance. The large mmes very extensive coalmine, easily worked, pro­ of America which are producing copper are ducing a high-class coal at half the price it operating upon a very low-grade ore. They cost the company before. That is a matter are working upon 1.4 per cent. copper ore I intend to deal with further as I progress in the largest copper-producing mines in the with my speech. Now, some persons have L.:"nited States, and very few large mines have cast doubt upon the future of the copper an ore which would average more than 3 per market. I confess that the success of the cent. or 4 per cent. copper. The largest Chillagoe proposition depends very largely mines in America have a very limited life, upon the future of the copper market and according to the opinion of an eminent· the market for industrial metals generally. mining· authority published in one of tht' The district does not solely depend upon Chicago journals only a month or two ago. copper; there are vast deposits of silver-lead He said that the average life of the largest ore. The Mungana mines are extensive silver­ copper producPrs in the United States is lead mines, and there are other metals in about twenty-three Years. The;; express the the district, so that it does not solely depend \Yonder as to where the supply of copper­ on one class of m(!hl, but it doe,. depend to furnish the world will come at the upon industrial mehls generallv-silver-lead, expiration of that time. They anticipate a copper, and munition metals stich as molyb­ sNious copper famine, and they are exhorting· denite.. and wolfram. They exist in large ehemists and others to use their best intelli­ quantities, and the market for them is gence. to try and fmd a .substitute, if. the,v asoured for many vears to come. There was could, for copper in electncal work, wh1ch 1s some doubt. wile,;' we were discussing this ~xpanding in every industry in every coun­ question before', as to whether the bottom try. I mention these facts because thev ha,·e would fall out of the copper market im­ an important bearing on th0 future for"Xorth mediately the war was ov0r. There is a high Queensland and upon such a proposition as price for copper now-£110 per ton-because this, as to whether it is worth considering. of the necessity of that metal for munition If it were thought that a year after the war purposes. Any person who has been in- there would be no sale for copper, that the [Hon. E. G. 1'heodore. Chillagoe and Etheridge (18 J17NE.j Railu-ays Bill. botton;. would drop out of. the copper market, it will he a profitable undertaking. Not only then It would be queshonable whether it will it be profitable in itself, but it will bring would be worth while purchasing this rail­ increased capita! to the Cairns system of way. But I maintain that there is not the railway, and will in a hundred ways add to slightest possible danger of that kind of the prosperity of the State. You cannot thing occurring. As a matter of fact, there calculate the amount of good that is brought should be the greatest desire to facihtati'l to the State by the starting of an enterprise copper production in Australia and increase of this kind. You cannot calculate in pounds it, because it is one of the most important shilling'• -and penc<' the amonnt of revenue of the industrial metals, entering very you derive from the railway. The railway largely into the industrial life of the com­ earnings are not the whole measure of bene­ munity and furnishing a very important fit brought to the State, because there is munition of war at the present time. Just also the r-xtra traffic on the Cairns Railway to quote another authority upon this sub­ and along the coast, thB additional number ject; "Sperling's Journal," which is a of men employed in Cairns and elsewhere, London publication, in its issue of January, and handling the goods and products, which 1918-a few months ago-stated this- all help t0 make for the prosperity of the " The demand for copper, which has State. Xow, ·with regard to the coal and been mounting in great upward leaps for coke proposition itself. Doubt has been cast the past thirty years, has been immensely upon the statements that have been made 5timulated by the war, and after the war from time to time as to the quality and will develop into a world-wide and most quantity of coal which exists at Mount Mulli­ ferocious scramble. \V e are not faced gan. That was a matter raised by an hon. with any immediate prospect of the dis­ member from the other side in opposition appearance of the metal. \Ve are faced to the proposal. He said it depended upon with the certainty of a shortage that, getting cheap coal and coke from Mount among the nations which do not look Mulligan, and it was thought the seam was ahead and guard themselves in advance, too small, and it was doubtful if the coal waR will be little lesh than a famine." a coking coal, and therefore the success of All the opinions seem to coincide that we this was even more problematical than was are not faced with any possibility of excess contended for. I want to deal with that production, but with a certainty of reduced question, lx>cause it has an important bear­ production and e. constancy of prices. ing upon the proposition. I have always Therefore, ·as far as prices .are concerned. asserted, since the Mir.es Department and the copper market is assured. So far as the the Railway Department conducted their future of North Queensland is concerned, investigations about 1912 in regard to the there will always be .a market for the copper Mount Mullig-an coalmine that the coal was that can be produced there. C\fow. in of high quality, and there was a sufficient America, the big mines are working on low­ quantity to furnfsh all the needs of the dis­ grade propostiions of 1~ per cent., and !e5s trict for a very long time to come. I have in some mines. In North Queensland there some reports that were made at that time in .are illimitable supplies of copper ore that regard to the quality of the coal and coke, will probably go 3 per cent. or 4 per cent. which I intend to quote in ol'der that mem­ So far we ha.ve not solved the problem of bers mav have the information before them : working those ores, because in the past, and also with regard to the coking qualities when the Chillagoe smelters were >vorkin:;, of the Mount Mulligan coal. The Railway the costs were high because of the high nrice Department was first interested on behalf of <;>f coal and coke, which enter very largely the Gov~ernment in regard to the quality of mto the cost of working the smelter; and the coal. because. .as pointed out by the because also the price of metal was low. Commissioner, if they could get cheap coai Those two main factors are removed. The in the d1stri~t it would save them ,all the price of metal is high .and satisfaetorv. The freight they had to pay from the South or price of coal and coke are low, a~nd the New~astle. As a matter of fact, they found quality is high. Therefore, with reasonable thP Southern Queensland coal quite unsuit­ management, a couple of furnaces can be ablf' foe r"ilwa:v 11urposf's on the Cairns worked in Chillagoe highly profitable to Railwav. Thev had to have coal of and mm·eased activity up there: it will give extPnsivP tests w0re can·i<'d out in 1911 and renewed hope to mirieowners. claimowners. 1912. and I hexfl these reports before me. As and prospectors to develop the leases ana a resnlt of thoec tests. the GoYernment the proposition that thev own, and to send <>nt?recl into ·a ~ontract with the Chillngoe their ore to the centre.] smelter. I firmlv {"'omnanv to t.ake all thn coal rPanir"rl on believe the thing will be highl:v prosperou's the Cairns svetpm from the Mount -Mulligan and a profitable undertaking for' the Govern­ rnnlmine, aJJd tha.t eontract is still in opera­ ment-the smelter itself. There is not the tion. slightest doubt about the nrofitahlene.ss or Hon. W. H. BARXES: Are they using that the future of the railway, whi~h, evBn in the coal now? nresent depressing times round the Chilla·foe .district, is ·a paying proposition. Under The. TREASURER: They· are using that Government ownership, with a renewed cod now. The only thing at the present· "divity in the district, with its low canitol­ time is that the compan:v have not been ·abh i Cairns district. Tho Commissioner· The TREASURER: It will have to have has offerf'd to the Chillagoe> fComnanv n­ lower freights. Notwithstanding that, I say slig-htly higl1er pri~e if thev wil! undertakr Hon. E.(}. Theodore.J 316 Chillagoe and Etheridge [ASSE::.VIBLY.] Railways Bill. to supply all the coal he needs in that of the State. They were Government experts district. There is no doubt the coal is there, who carried out tests on an extensive scale, and the company is opening· out wider on and their report should be convincing. Not the seam in order to increase its produc­ only that, but the sample of coke was made tion. These are some extracts from the in a very primitive beehive oven. I think reports in regard to the quality of the MoLmt 15 tons were made in the experiment at Mulligan coal on the trial which •ve held Newcastle for smelting purposes, and found on 3rd October, 1911. This is the report to be excellent. \Vith regard to the area made by the mechanical engineer- and extent of the coalbearing country, I " Cairns to Mareeba full load up have Go::ernment Geologist Ball's report on range. engine steamed exceptionally well. this subject also. He says- Full head steam maintained throughout. " The coalfield is estimated to have a Coal reported excellent. equal to averao:e toLl area of 14 square miles, of which Newcastle. Only 34 cwt. used as against the Chillagoo Company in 1917 held 4,000 2 tons usually carried m· er this section." acres under coalmining lease. 'The next test was on 15th March, 1912- " In a total thickness of 111 feet of " Cc irns-l\1areebe.. Boiler steamed ex­ measures, it is cc:timatcd that there is ceptionally well the whole trip. Ran a grand toh] of 27 feet of coal, broken Cairns to ~fareeba without either clean­ up by bands of greater or less import­ ing fire or ashpan. Full head steam ance. The steam coal section of No. 1 mainLained throughout. Consumption per seam shows 4 feet of coal as worked, and ton mile .36 as against .47 lb. Southern J'\o. 2 seam shows a working face of 2 coal." feet 3 inch coal." 'Then in August, 1912, further tests were Those :ne the two best seams- -carried out- " The coal reserves of the Chillagoe " The Commissioner's special train leases alone-that is, 4,000 acres out of was run with Mount Mulligan coal from 14 square miles-are estimated at 7,000,000 Cairns to Babinda and back, aml over tons in the 2 ft. 3 in. seam, and 12,500,000 the Government and Chillagoe railways tons in the 4 ft. seam." with mo.'t satisfactorv results."· Consequently there are 20,000,000 tons in ·On 19th September- . those two seams in the Chillagoe leases alone; and if you take the average rate of "A sample of coal branded Ko. 2 tested consumption for years past there is sufficient on this date is reported to be superior coal in the Chillagoe proposition to last for to the general Tun of ~ ewcastle coal S<'Yenty years, and there are 14 square miles u·ed on the Cairns Railway, and infinitely of coalbearing countrY which have proved superior to contract coal from the satisfactory to the test of the geologists. Southern Division. In running a full load 'There is no doubt about the supply of coal to Mareeba with Southelln Di.-ision coal and coke suitable for smelting purposes. jt is ahvays neces'3ary to rake out at Therefore there is no doubt that there will Stonev Creek and Kuranda. and with be cheap fuel and coke for the Chillagoe Newcastle coal at Kuranda only, operations when the smelters are working whereas in this test the fire was in good again. There is not the slightest doubt that, order after arrival at Mareeba. The for vears to come, there is an assured market excellent results given by this sample for 'copper. silver, and lead, which will be confirm the opinion previously expre,sed produced in large quantities. at Chillagoe by the Chief Mechanical Engineer as to under this proposition. But the thing I the suitability of Mount Mulligan coal want to stress is this: that, apart from the for locon1otive purposes." smelters which are being purchase.d, or the ·So m_uch for the quality of the coal for leases and mines of the Chillagoe Company, steammg purposes. the railway itself, according to the Com­ Mr. SrzEn : Is there not a rather high per­ missioner, is worth more than we are paying centage of dust and ashes? for the whole proposition. The TREASURER : W oiL you will see Mr. VOWLES: On war prices? from that report that there was not a high The TREASURER: At present prices. percentage of ash. Thero was no necessitv He savs, taking the present value of the to clean the fire nor the ashpan on those railway and plant, they are worth alone tests. over what we are paying for the whole Mr. KIRWAX: Anyhow, it is onh- half the proposition. I think there can be no doubt price of the Southern coal. and far superior. that the proposal is worth the .£476,000 'l'he TREASURER: This question of ash offered. and if it will have the effect of start­ comes into the question of cokemaking. ing a 'smelter and a couple of furnaces at Geologist Ball reported as to the suitabilitv Chillagoe, and bringing the vast district of of the coal for cokemaking. He says- · the Chillagoe and Herberton fields again "The coking qualities of certain of the into active production, that is worth accom­ Mount Mnlligan coals ha.-e been fully plishing. In the past, .£400,000 has been demonstrated, and it has been shown in spent in propositions not orie-tenth as im­ the laboratory that even the unpicked portant as this is, ancl spent without the coal horn the 2 ft. 3 in. working section slightest question by Parliament. This is of Ko. 2 seam vields a coke with ash con­ a proposition which Parliament can accept tents below comm<>rcial limits; and with without the slightest hesitation or fear that waslwd coal a coke much lower in ash it will not be justified in the future. I would undoubtedlv result." believe it will have the effect of bringing a At half-past 4 p.m., large population to that district, renewed o'clo~k prosperity to North Queensland, and of assist­ Mr. FoLEY, one of the Temporarv Chair­ ing in the development of industries in men, took the chair as Deputy Speaker. Queensland by producing industrial metals The TREASURER : I hope hon. members of ;creat valu<' in a number of industries. will understand that these tests were carried I move-That the Bill be now read a second

Mr. VO\VLES: I think the J.Iinister is to pay for a lot of improvements. which 'vere be congratulated on the amount of detail he valued in 1915, and to buy a railway whwh, has given us; but I think it is to be regretted according to the report of the Commissioner tJ:.at he did not, go further, particularly in for Railwavs, was depreciated to the extent view of the fact that a Select Committee has of £9,000 ~t that time because it had been sat in connection with this very Bill and neglected. Yet we are asked to pay that discarded the proposal for the verv good amount, for the sake of getting these holes· reasons set out in the copy of its 'report, in the ground. The value has been taken which I have here. They complain that away from the surface. I mi• gbd to know there is certain very important evidence and that the difficulties between the debenture­ material which was not put before them. holders and the shareholders of the company If it was in the po"session of the department have been settled among themselves. On the· at the time the C{)lnmittee sat, it was the last occasion we were placed in a very in­ duty of the department to produce that vidious position. We found that. the Govern­ evidence. If they objected to do it on that ment had circumvented the shareholders and occasion they have had a long time between had gotte to the debenture-holders direct. February, 1917, when the report was formu· The Hm!E SECRET.\RY: Does not that lated, and the present date-abou'G fifteen prove that it was a good property that was months-to gather information to bring offered us? before this Chamber, so that when this measUTe goes eventually to the Upper House. Mr. YOWLES : The debenture-holders at any rate, the queries they raised would were glad to get rid of it at any price and be to some extPnt satisfied if the material to make a breach of the moratorium regula­ was to be got. The Select Committee, first tions and take the risk of it and get it on of all, complained that during the progress the Government. If that was so, and they of the negotiations for purchase there was were so glad to get rid of it and get this ample time for official and other expert £476,000 out of the Government, should we reports to be obtained on certain vital not be careful to see that we are getting a matters-namely, first of all, the mineral fair ·deal? prospects of the field. K ow, all the Minister Mr. HARTLEY: Your Government would has done is to tell us som!'thing we already have bought it for a million. know, and to give us a few extracts from Mr. VOWLES : When it was brought the report of a Government geologist as before our Government that proposal was not regards the coal in that locality. But we accepted. Mr. Ryan went to the old country, are not dealing with coal areas; we are and, in some way, circumvented the share­ dealing with ore, and there is no evidence holders and got to the debenture-holders. before us to show that there is ore in suffi· But that difficulty is settled, and we cannot cient working quantities surrounding Chil­ be accused of being a party to some under­ lagoe to justify us in expending even £1,000. hand trick. The parties have come together, The TREASURER : Surely the report of the and those very shareholders who thought geologist ought to satisfy you on that point ! they were being badly dealt with-the men who wanted £950,000-are now glad to seC' :yrr. VOWLES: I propose to read the it go for £475,000 if the Governrr.ent is pre­ report of the Government Geologist, and he pared to take it. :vill tell us distinctly that, in his opinion, it What do we find as regards the mineral IS purely a matter of speculation, and that he would not a-dvise his own friends to go prospects of the field? Let us look at the into it, although he thinks it is a different evidence of Mr. Ball, as given before the thing for the Government. Are we justified, Select Committee- as rustodians of the people's money, in " 235. If a man bought it with the view gambling with it in socialistic enterprises? of working it for five or ten years, he The object which the Mini,ter savs he is would have to buy it for speculative pur­ setting out for-that is, keepin"g those poses, hoping that other lodes would smelters and the railway line going-can be turn up ?-That is how thE>y would run dealt with . from many points of view. it in future. Mount Mulhgan can be dealt with so far " 236. It would be a speculative business as the coal supplie"' are concerned. altogether ?-Yes. The TREASURER : It is no use unless there " 237. There is nothing there to make it is somebody to use the coal and coke. a success ?-No. ;\h. VO\YLF:S : The quPstion is : Are we "238. It would have to be run on specu­ justified in borrowing £476.000 for this pur­ lative lin,'s?-Yes. pose? It is another sample of Government "239. By Mr. Macrossan: Do you sug­ finance. Are we justified in the present gest that the State might go in for this financial condition of the country in going proposition as a mining speculation?- in for a "wild-cat" schpme like this, when No. . not thousands but millions of monev have " 240. By Mr. Stephens: Seeing that it already been sunk by big syndicates and is of a speculative nature, would you re­ companies, who were possessed of the best commend your personal friends to invest brains of scientists in connection with the their money in it a"t the price ?-No. business, and they were never able to pay a "241. I know this is not geology, but I divi·dend, notwithstanding the fact that some am looking at it from the business millions of money were expended. We would aspect?-You might ask the State to do not be doing our duty to the people of something that you would not ask your Queensland if ,,.e did not voice our objection friends to do." on that showing alone. If he, or anybody else, were asked to enter Personally, I am opposed to this socialistic into this undertaking they would not ask enterprise of the Government. Here is a their personal friends to do it, because "show" of which the eyes have been picked evidently the State has more capital and is out. The company and prospectors have got better able to do it. Apart from that, going all the good out of this locality about the back to the Government's experience in the railway line. What we are asked to do is to short time it has been dealing with ventures Mr. Vowles.] ::318 Chillagoe and Etheridge [ASSEMBLY.] Railways Bill. of different kinds, what has .its fate been? 1dtogether. The Minister has gone on a Look at the revelations about Mount Hutton. nt"w tack. He tells us that there has been There is a sample of Governrr.ent enterprises. a very large increase in the price of copper The Government started out, purchase what he said in answer to profit. question 22, page 4 of the report- Mr. HARTLEY: Now. look out! You " I ha Ye a quotation from the 'Mining may be asked to prove that. and Engineering \Vorld,' Chicago, of 22nd Mr. VOWLES: I have had it proved by July last, which says- the Minister. I suppose the Government ' If the war continues well into next wouldn't be game to appoint a commission. vear there will be such an accumula­ Mr. H. J. RYAN: You did not prove your tion of post:1on€d work in the "Gnited vVando Vale case. State, as will sustain the copper market at high prices-say, around 20 cents­ Mr. VO\VLES: Going a little further, look for many months after the clos

fares and freights on it would be the of railway at such a. great amount of expense eame as on the rest of the railwavs ?­ for the purpose of running them at a loss, Th~re is ~othing 111 the Bill with regard too? ~o mcrcasmg fares and freights, so that :'VIr. HARTLEY : Do you suggest that we It :naturally follvws that the Chillagoe Rarlway wou!.d be under the same should pull up the other lines, too? echedule as the rest of the railways." :01r. VOWLES: If the company refuses to That is to say, you cannot . take into con­ run trains, the Commissioner has a right to c.Jdera~wn all the profit that has been made run trains. If the proposition were to ad­ ':;. the pa"~ by the C,hillagoe Company; you Yanco a small sum so that they could get the \.Jll haF> ro rcd1!ce It by 50 per cent. And miaes working, as proposed in the agreement you have to ·realise :hat .since the Chillagoe in that second schedule, and to take the rail­ Company ~ave Loon ;vorlnng there ha.ve been way line and the smelters at their reasonable m;orn1ous 1ncreasc>s 1n the cost o£ -services. value, it might bo a sound proposition, but Wages have ;;one up. I propose to o-ive vou why should we be asked to take all the the history of our own rai:ways du~ing "the mining machinery-which, after all, if you last three years, wher' losses have gone on ha.vc no u·e for it is only scrap iron-and 1u. s!'ch an extent that last year the Com­ pay for k<1su which will be either worked misswnu lost l s. 4~d. for every train mile by priYate individuals or forfeited to the h_e ran .. \Ye mn~t take th et mattLr into con- Crown? \Ye know that ,.-e h:tYe got to buy 6ldl'rahon as thL is u. busine,;,3 proposition. the Etheridge Railway in 1921. We know Jf you cannot run an existing line whore what the basis of purchace is. The Commis­ y~u can rP_Q"u]rte rates without a loss of 1s. sioner tolls us that that value may be in­ 4,d. per mile, then I ask how \Ou t goes to the other railway. there are no profits at all as far as I under­ stand. Tha.t being 'O, we are going to get .The TREASURER: All the stock for the a. very cheap railway if we sit tight and Brboohr:t rncahvorks go over the line fron1 let it fall into our hands. Almaden to Mareeba., nearly 100 miles. The TRE.\Sl:RER: Vve are going to get a Mr. VO\VLES: For one works only, and a. cheap railway under those proposals. very_ smal! works at that. If you take into .eonsid<;ratwn the < •tttle industry in the North Mr. VOWLES: No. We are not. It is no good the Minioter telling us that the J:OU :"'I! find th':t most of the stock travel­ lmg m that loca.hty travel on the hoof. Just value of the railway and material is £475 to sho"': whv we f'hould not induhe in an alone. What will they be worth twelve en~erpnse such as this, I will quote the State months after th' war is over? railways themselves- The TREAST"RER: Probably much more . ." In the Y?ar 1914-15-the last of the Mr. VOWLES: No. We know that rails L1beral regime-the railways earn,,d are beinR manufactured in the Common­ £3,832,003, and after paying working wealth. They can be got at ~ewcastle! _and expense·>, etc., had a net revenue of it is only on account of wa.r time cond1t10ns £1,430,324. This was equivalent to £4 that the value is so high at pre·-,ent. So 9s. 8d. p~1· cent. on the capital invested soon as the demand ceases for the material, m Of?en hne•·, or ~3 16s. 7~d. per cent. on it will come down to normal prices, and all !mes. The ra1lwa.ys were practically the scrap iron will decrease in value in pro· paymg. Last year the gross earnings portion. Now, the report goes on to say t?talled £3,831,9_67, that is to say, very this-- httle less than m 1914-15, but after de­ The TREASURER: That report is out of date. du<;ting the workin~ expenses, there re­ mamed only £837,780. This was equiva­ It is nearly two. ylars old. lent to a return on the total capita.! Mr. VOWLES: That does not matter. The expended on opened and unopened lines fact is that the Select Committee asked for of only £2 1s. 5~d. per cent. There was certain in£orma.tion that was procurable or a defi?iency ~f £734,997 on the year's not procurable at the time. If it was not op<:>ratwns. .Lt cost the Commissioner procurable then. it sJ:ould have £593,508 more to work his department [5 p.m.] procured now. What IS the good than. it did in 1~14-15, '"hen the gross of brino-ing" this Bill back to the earnmzs were very little more. It is same House. We~e they going to stultify clear, therefore, that the loss is not due themselves and turn round and say th.ey to a falling off in the earnino-·. but to would pa.qs this railway without further m­ the mounting cost of \Yorkt'ng, The formation? volume of traffic was less, but the freight The TnE.\.SuRER : They have all the infor- ?harges and fare·· being higher, the earn­ matiou on those points. mgs were a.lmc•st m~intained. According to the Commissioner's last report. he lost Mr. VOWLES: Where is it? 1s. 4~d. on every train mile run." The TREASURER: In my evidence. A GOVERNMENT MEMBER: Deliberately. Mr. VOWLF:S: I h•.cve read the hon. Mr. VOWLES: Well, he has lost it, and gentlenian's evidence, every word of it, but why should we go and purchase further lines he is not a. geologist nor an expert. He JJfr. Vowles.] 320 Chillagoe and Ethuiclge [ ..\SSE:'IIBLY.] Railways Bill.

had practical experience as a miner, and justify the State in embarking on what he vvas giving his o\vn personal opinion as 1nay he considered a speculati\-e enter­ to the possibilities of that district. ' prise." The TREASuRER: That is all anyone can do. \Vhat additional m·idence has been giYen by the Minister to-day? Ha, he read aJJY report JI.Ir. VOWLES: Wha.t was a'ked for hero dealing, not with coal, but with what '"as was the mineral prospects of the field. "-hat asked by the report and the resources of the did the geologist say? He told the Com­ area>., and whether th<'v ,,-,,re suflicient to mittee it was not the sort of " show" he justify the State in taking it over with the would advise speculators to tackle. :\1·: prospect of the mines not "petering out" t>xperience is that although .the Governmer{t for a number of years, but keeping on for a are good speculators, they arc the .-cry '"orst reasonable nun1ber of years tO give the-111 a. class of business men. What information reas-onable chance of making a profit on the have we to-day on the present condition of money invested. the mines themselves? There is no word said Dealing with the Mount Mulligan agree" about that, or the appr.Jximate ya]ue of the 111<'nt, \VC are asked to sanction an advanc-e­ machinery. That machinery has depreciated, which is to be secured bv a bill of sale-of a surely, during the last two years. "\Vhat is mm not exceeding £90,000. I would just the present value of it? Are we justified in like to point out how tha.t money is to be paying to-day for unused machinery as much med. It s"ys in the agreement- as we would he~ve been justified in paying twelve months ago ? " \Vhereas the company is the lessee of or entitled to certain coalfields (speci­ Mr. KIRWAK : You go down the town and fied in the schedule hereto) at ::\Ionnt try to buy second-hand machinery. :\lulligan in the State of Queensland and has applied to the l.Iinister to advance Mr. VOWLES: I know this much, that to the company or at the option of the once machinery on mining fields gets out of ~ompany to guarantee the account of the date it is only worth its value as scrap iron. company with a bank for a sum not If hon. members look in the report of the exceeding ninety thousand pounds to be engineer, they will find what he said on page expf'nded by the company for the objects 83 with regard to the permanent way- and for the work and for the purposes " The road generally has a fair line and to the extent hereinafter set forth and surface for the authorised speed. which the Minister has for the considera­ From my examination and a detailed tions herein appearing agreed to do upon inspection by the District Engineer in the terms a.nd conditions hereinafter con­ May last, I consider the renewal of tained:" sleepers is a little behindhand, also the £90,000 has to be furnished, and that is number of loose dogspikes (9 per cent.) going to be expended as follows: First of all is high. A large proportion of the spikes £60,000 in the purchase and erection of coke are also not in contact with the rail. a Yens, machinery, plant, and accessories. and and the sleepers should be rebored and the conservation and laying- on of water at respiking effected throughout where the mines; £5,000 only was to be expended necessary.'' in underground deye]opment work, but £25.000 of that money was to be gh·cn to Then he went on to say in conclusion- the · company for the purpose mere!~, of " I consider the maintenance of this discharging their present liabilities. That line is somewhat behind, and if t~ken £25.000 is going- out of action altogether. over by the Government an expenditure In addition to that. there '"ere minor ex­ of £7,500 will be required to place the penses. The Gm·ernment had to pay the· way and works in a fairly scttisfactorv secrc-1--:n·v of the debenture-holders the sa.lary condition. " of £250. a vear. As far as :Yiount ::\Iulligan " In regard to depreciation for the two is concerned. the GoYernment is taking a years that has elapsed since Mr. Bell's securitv which might be reasonablf' security, inspeQtion, I approximately estimate this judging by the reports of the Geological at £8,900." Department as rega;·ds the coal areas over­ which the company have a right. If they The depreciation was going on all the time, develop the mine and prove. th~ coal an:l th_e on the Government's own estimates. The GoYermnent have the first nght to 1t, It Upper House, through their Select Commit­ will be good busines" for the Governnwnt tee, asked for information as to the value to find the monev for that purpose alone. be­ of the railway, and they had not got it, and cause it will ser~e their railways, even if it hon. members have not got it to-day. Then, does not serve the smelters. If the GoYern­ again, another very important question they ment came up with a proposal _for the pur­ asked: What is the estimated returns, the pose of taking over Mount Mulhgan and for­ expected profit of . the enterprise? Hon. the purpose of_ working the sJ;telters and members had not even got that information, doing that portwn '!f. the work It would be­ although, I believe, it is in the p-latform of a reasonable propositiOn. the present Government that if they get con­ The TRE.ISVRER: It would cost almost as trol of the line they will run it under the much as to buy the whole thing. Commissioner-develop the mining resources, work the smelters and do the whole thing Mr. VOWLES: Why should we nc;t know as a Government concern. The committee what could be done in that directiOn?_ I had not investigated the legal rights nor the do not want the Government to enter mto effect of the moratorium on the proposed these ventures, p~rticula.rly _in .-_iew of what purchase. The committee, howeyer, said thev haYe done m other directwns. Some­ this- thiil"' has been said about the population of " The evidence actually given did not that" district, and how it has fallen off. I satisfy the committee that payable I'e­ would not like for one moment t.o sugg-est serve ores exist in sufficient quantity to that the Hon. the Minister was influenced in [J1r. Vowles. Chillagoe and Etheridge [l 8 J"C~E.) Railways Bill. his zeal from that point of view, because I That is necessary in all mining fields. With think that there is ''ume hon. member regard to the fire in the Lady J ane mine, if patriotic enough to make room fo~· him if the hon. member for Dalby had any know­ hi~ electorate i'. done u.\vav with. I can ledge of mining he would know that from oui!o. imagine th0 hon. member for Brisbane the time the Lady Jane has been flooded taking the Railwav Con1missionership and the \\ ater must have put the fire out. I am making room for the Minister. (L1uphter.) sur8 that with the water in the Lady Jane I look >1t the question from this point of mine the fire is not burning now. Previous view. \Ye have to regard the matter purely to the company closing down they were not as a post -war prOJY'>c-ition. \Ye cannot take depending on the Zillmanton and Lady Jane into consideration the inflated price of cop­ mines for their ore. The Einasleigh mine per nnd the present value of the matcrid in was opened up, and it would not take very the r"ilw"y line. \Ye have to look ahead long to get that mine producing again. The and sec \\:hat the value of that propm+· Girofla mine was alr-o supplying the company will b0 fi.-f' :;r·ars henc0, when "e all hope the with ore. The Chillac-oo Company from '\ ar will be oyer. 1902 until M arch, 1914, when it closed down, The Tm:ASDRI:H: It will be '' orth £3,0r J,OOO produced 608,623 tons of ore, and produced tL..m. from that 23,272 tons of copper, 317,508 tons o' lead, 4,345-.309 oz. of sih·er, and 2'1.911 :;\lr. VOWLES : If that is so, is it not a oz. of . That was for the twch·e years' rermtrkable thing that the company and the operations from 1902 to 1914, and they were individuals \Yho have all the monev b0hind closed dm1·n throurh a shortage of coal­ their luc1:s should be so keen to get rid of throug-h not being able to get coal from it" Why should thcv object to the debenture­ ::-;-mvcastle--on manv occasions. \Vhile the hold us spoiling the< deal they were bringing cornnanv carried on operations in Chillagoe off? thev" w8re unlucky in rnanv ,,, a V'"· The~ The TRF\ScRER : They had not the power walth Government re­ wa v. 'rh en thev were clo~cd down on occa­ fuse tho company the right to produce copper sions throu;:rh n~t being able to get their coal for munitions? I know that those share­ from N o•yce,stle. Since then 'the ;\Iount holder~, two years ago '' ere keen on their ::Hullir,nn mine h:'s opened up and largely rights. but now th~y wer<' jolly glad to get cheapened th" treatment of ore from Chilla­ out of it became they had a " mug " to bny goc. PreYious to the company's closing down it in the Government. I am opposed to the they v, ere paying 44s. a ton for coal and 75s. Government currying on these socia.li -,.tic a ton for coke and if they had been able to enterprises. tide over for, ;ay, another six or nine months, The TREAScRER: The railways? at the time they elosed down, th<;y would have been able to draw coal from the J\lount }lr. VOWLES: J'\o. Developing mining :\Iulligan mine at the rate of 12s. a ton: I nJ-.~as, smelting, and digging holes in the think it was in 1913 or 1914 that the C1nlla­ ground, like these companies. I am opposed goe Company approached the Government, to that on principle, and I am opposed to it then led by Mr. Denham, £or a . loan of more so as the result of the experience we £30 000 but that Government turned down have had of past dealings with the Govern­ the' request. Had the Government granted mont. Judging by their business activitiBs as that £30,000 to go on with, I have no doubt far as those public enterprises are co10cerned, the Chillagoe Company would be carrying on I have not much faith in their management operations in Chillagoe to-day. in such an undertaking as this. For those reasons I propose to vote against this mea­ GovERN1rnNT MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! sure on the second reading, and I sincerely Mr. RIORDAN: '['he last twelve months hope that the members of the Opposition during which the Chillagoe company worked, will look at it from my point of view and the smelters treated and produced approxi­ not encourage the Government in going into matelv 51.607 tons of ore; for copner 1,950 · these " w·ild-cat " schemes. Almost a quarter tons 'lead 2,472 tons, silver 264,260 ounces, of a million of money is involved, and it gold 2 876 ounces. The average prices of will not stop at that, because all the money E1etals 'nt. that time were-Copper, £60 10s. TlPCc:::sar".~ f0r rnrr,ing on tl1is ·q•ntnre is ·+rl. per t ·n; le· Cl, £19 15s. 3d.: silver. 2s. appropriated. If they carry it to a succc·,_,, per ounce; l1nd p-old, £4 4s. lld. Now. at they will be in a happy position, becaUFe a thP above pricP the average value of those company with more money than they have metals produced at Chillagoe during the failed lo make a succPss of it. If it is a year ended 20th March, 1914, was-Copper, failure, it will not be the hon. members £118.057; lead, £48,853; silver, £27,527; opposite who will bQ footing the bill, but and 'gold, £12,219; or a total value of it will be the taxpayers of Queensland, be­ ;;i206.656. Now, in 1914 the company was ea use I do not believe there are half a dozen r•arrying- on under those conditi(Jns-;o·w members on that side who are taxpayers. pric~ of metnl and high price .for fuel to Mr. RJ:ORDAN (B1Lrke), who was received tl'Pat their ores in Chillag-oe. If you take the with Go<·ernment " Hear, hears," said: I J,ondon pricPs of metals for 1917 and com­ haYe listened to the hon. member for Dalby pare tho"e with the m·icos ruling in 1914 Y<;U and I am very much surpris<;d at the little ,,·ill Hnd the following-: -Copper ].er ton 111 knowledg<' he has shown of mining. He was London in 1917 was £130 5s.; lead was £30 speaking about the flooded Zillmanton mine. 10s. ber ton: silver. 3". per ounce: and g-old, That mine was not worked for twelve months £4 4s. 11d. per ounce. So on t h~ basis o: previous to the Chillagoe Company closing production th~ value at JanuarY prJCes would down, and naturally it would become flooded. l'e £381 000. instead ot £207.000, the differ­ In any min() not worked during a holiday ence in 'Yahw being £174.000, which would vacation the pumpers are kept on the whole have· tided the Chillag-o,, Compan:<' ov<.'r their round of the shifts keeping the water down. crisiP. During the last two months the 1918-x Mr. Riordan.] 322 Chillagce cmd Etheridge [-\.SSEl\IBLY.] Railways Bill. cornpany carried on. operations in Chillagoe to the sn1elter closing down this 1nine they produced 11,683 tons of ore. :'\ow, any­ was sendit,,._ IOO tone a day of 6 per cent. l.Jo-d:c who ha"' any practical knowledge of ore to thr, Chillaroe cotclkr,, and right up 1nining c:.:UlPot f·'Y, on those figur.P"· that the to tht? c' L <)f \ ~w ,.-nlclter~ closing dovvn. Mo bottom had fallen out of the Chilloagoe mines. this mine is fully d-e\eloprd. o·ncl there are The company .did not close down became of large bo-dic·5 o£ ore in sight. 1\'ow, the .•.·.n;.r short ago of r jncral; the mineral (~nct~nslander n1i1.0 is one ol the 1nines at '"· shov.~" \Ycre there. }~or ~ar+'-l-the onl~,~ working 1nine there. The, TRK\.SURER: I-l•.?ar, hear ! Yfhen the Etheridge Gold 1\lining Co1npany t 10k the mine' .; · er thcv wore owned bv a, Mr. RIORDc\.N: There were fields there gentleman on the field." They bou[;'ht 'the that ha>cl not Jwnn touched. The Percv mine 1nines and rais~·d "---~tpital to develop the had not 1Jcen touchcci. The eolnpar{y pro­ rn ining indu~tr\"" 1n and arour i tfie pn.cd buikling ,, line to the Percv, a matter T~~theri,dgc. T}H'~T ereCf'd a l ,rgo electrica.t of 35 miles from the Etheridge line, and they plant .. ,L Fors "yth a11 l put ~·.p a lot of un­ ,., ould haw op-- nee! up this field. But just !H..'C0'Ssarv hui1dinQ"s vnd ~- 2:· Yv'ent d·)Wn the:! the ·" <'>' broke out nnd the company t,hPir 1n~ncs to tr)~ :und d·-.•vclop thern u~1ti1 ('oulci. get no further 1nuney, and they were the who]:·, of their cu~·,ital wa~ g-one. \Vhen fore< d t-' ck,,· do·.m. 1'\ow, I think if ti1e they got dmc n they !ound out tl1at the man Denham Govornmcnt had -ecen their way in \\horn they had purchased the> mines f1·om 1913 or early in 1914 to grant the Ohilla'goe had picked the cyu out of them and they Company that loan, they would have been had no money l0ft to develop. I,- a report paying dividends in Ohillagoe to-da:·. There which I got out of the .. Bulletin'' it sa::-:,:- rs no doubt Chillago · has never been tried. The fidot; end ·what is more, it is tho in and around the Etlwridge. Chilhgoe, and best-defiLPd lode on the Ethortd·...-e tldd. Herberton districts are down to .a depth Jt is 700 fc d long- arcd averace; 3 ieet in of 200 to 300 feet; and I am sure, if 'v~.d+h, with 1 ou1;~e go~d al1d a t-:nlver­ these mitws arc sunk to a greater depth, lead conclntrate to help. To Mink rhe they will p;ive the sam-e result as the Girofla. ;ohaft ''nd open up Ko. 4 ]eye;! th<: com­ On the Chilbgoe Railway, no doubt. the pany sold its fin~ electrical plant, and -company have the right to chaTge 50 per :::.in('~ the11. no oeh~' ,.,1opn1ent has hL-cn c.:·n· ovq· and above bovernment rates. On undertaken. \Ylwn this bit of ore is n: aYera<'e I think it works out at about removed the to-let notice will be posted up, EIS the c,nnpany hus no more plant to 33 per c •ne. over Gow·rnmcnt rates. I he.(l.rd th 'fo,,,·nsvilie, hicrhu· r'"tes than the Govern­ bungle. He so>l out home,, thut had been me•1t for r::.ilvns Y\orkmen. Railwavmen built up there, with electric lig-ht laid on to r ll1l'lo;.·cd b:. the' Ohi]];,goe Ccnnpany, 'ri;;ht them, and used that mono;:. in addition to un to tlw time of th McCawley a\' ard, I that which he received for anv machiner,v think, were the bc,t paid railway-men in which he founcl was unn,:,ces·3ary around Queensland, and the company showed a profit Forsayth. on paying their men high salaries, for five Hon. vV. H. BARNES : What year was that? years' working previous to the close do,vn, Mr. RIORDAN: In 1915 they sold up that. of £52,000 For the twelve r.1onths after machinery and those houses to d~velop thi~ closiJJ;:: Aown th0ir profits on the line were mine. The Ohillagoc Company'.; man~ger £15,00~. Kcw the hon. member says that went out and made inquiries, and e0ld _up the cattk from around the Ohillagoe district those ho'Ist:-, .-nd thev have been worlnng ,,n go overland and that there is very the mim· -ucce_sfullv for the L,ct t,.-.o year-. little cattle traffic going over the Ohillagoe The:' have be~n sho,ving a pretty good profit H..'.ilwa:·. During the meatworks sea··ons at on the mip_;-,, yet now the:· intend to put Biboohi·a there are two and three trains of nothing b.'.ck to dcvdop the mit·e cft~r drag­ L .tttle a day going along the Ohillagoe line. ging the fPC•' out of it. That has been prac­ i·1dcpenclently of ordinary tr 'ffic; and I tically how the whole of the mining industry think if the ftee;.own-3,-~ get their cattle car­ ho.s b, en rarri~d on around Chillagoe by ried at Government ''ates there will be a lot private enterprise. The whole thing has been mor>J cattle traYelling over thm·e; they will dug out for gain, :md when they h''Ve made C8m·- a further distance to be trucked over a. fortune out of it thev have cleared and the Ohiliagoe line. I think it is a vuy good left it. · idea for the Government to take over this railway and work it in conjunction with Mr. VowLES: Did you say they made a the smelteN I have no doubt the Govern­ fortune in Chillagoe? ment will make a success of it. Mr. RIORDAN: They did not make a The 'I'REASUR!lR: Hear, hear ! fortune in Chillagoe; you know that as well At twenty minutes past 5 o'clock p.m., as I do. I heard you s.q they lost a million of money. (Laughter.) The same applies The DEPUTY SPEAKER resumed the· chair. to all the mines in the Burke. There are '\fr. RIORDAN: The mines around the mines within 40 miles of the railway which Chillagoo and Etheridge field that had been have never been touched by Ohillagoe. There worked include the Einasleigh mine. Previous are the individual miners, the prospectors; [Mr. Riordan. Chillagoe and Etheridge [18 JuNE.] Railways Bill. 323

all those m0n ·,c·ere practically ruine-d wh•m Mr. POLLOCK: The hon. member knows the Chi!lagoe closed down. Tho whole of that no information of this sort can be the :\forth was <"Mrying a population <•f obtained except by rccour,e to the ordinary about 20,000. and the whole of the minin;­ '' :'~Iining Journal" published every month. indu,tro: in the C\:orth was paralysed through That journal gives a corre0t r·eport of the the actJon of tlw D·cnham GovernmE'nt in progress of every mining field in Queensland not g-ranting to the- companv £30 000 to tide lt rnav not do that in ccnntction vvith 0verv them over their difficultie,~. Y~t not too ileld ln everv is':.ue; but it giYeS a correc~t many months later the same Government, r<'port from 'time to time on every show of on the eve .of an election, granted £16,000 any consequence in Queensland, and had those to a man m Crovdon. or to a svndicate, ":\liEing Journals" been s•·crched the eYi­ to go " blind st;bbing " for gold on a d• nce ould haYC> b<'~n found. But those borGhole where it is well known there g."ntlemen did not , .. :mt to find that evidence; never \.Vas an assay got out. There ·was their -,:hole attitudC" we· that thev did not supposed to be an as,,a, got out of it. vvant bJ get the illforrr_ation. ::_\~ob"odv could The £1f;,00'J ''nls ~ nlv .1 s'on. lu there is 110 lXpect that tha'.· infumation could be rnqn alive to~da;+ \vilo r. ": ~_v('d it. and the obtained bv anv other method than bv a a~say"r in Cro~,dDn 'vho vas Supposed to h::ve c: p_~n1~ --i,Jn ~or ~~Lno body of competent Inen a~s:tyed it sa.~.': th0re never v~·. s any r; say got gr and a·•.sisted rE>ferenclum taken to.morrow for the -.boJi. thu;:,e sho1-vs \Yhen thcv need( ,J a/- dstance. ~ion of the Upper Roue•·, the Couwil would ~he solo ~cu-,~on wh:~- thC Chillagoe ('nmpany ,.ot p-rt orP voh=- in North Qne0nsland on 1a not be1ng rnado a success i:J because the account of thr rejection of +h,,t P·ill o1one. lwn. member refused to allow them f;nfficient GOVERNMENT :MElJB:CRS: Hear, hear! money to c,-nry on y,-ith until the price of copper i1nproved, as it v:"as doing at the Mr. l'OLLOCK (Grcgory): I rise to o·i,·e time. He, mof<' tim anv other individual in this Stc>i.e, must ace• pt' the respon,ibility ~he Bill 1ny benediction in hS f.evt \Vord~ as pcdsible. I realibe th-at it is time the Go­ fOl' the closinz ,cJowu o? the ChilLgoe Corn· n~.n' _ I W'1nt to ~ of any 1nan who is a genuine Queens­ Rarh, ay, and the mmmg assets '.Vhi.'.h al>o !andcr to ~ce the: small men in the mining come within the scope of the Bill is reDllv mdustry given a chance. There were hun­ because of the attitude of the Up;;er House dreds of men-copper gauger ,-in the Chil­ This alternoon I liitf'ned to the hon. member l~g:oe dif~rict who were making a good fo~ B~tlimba, puttin::r up hio pitifully weak lPnng pi'Ior to th;~ elo ~ing: do,vn of the obJection to the takmg over of thue asse-ts Chillag•.. e Cc.mpany. TLose~ men wor" able by the GovPrnmcnt. One of hio objections to send in their ore, to the C'hillagoe smelters ·,,·as that the, Government lwd not the r·c­ for treatment, end it kept en army of small f]Uired information as to the Yalu<' of the 1nen, \vho were tlY~ir ov1'1l bos;:;f--~. a--.d earning mines which it proposed to take over. a i;Ood living. in and around the Chilla'l"oe Desnite the fact that the Commissioner for district. To-day practically all tho>:e men Railways, in his report, sktted that the rail­ hav0 left the district, having been compelled " ay assets alone were worth the value that to go elsewhere in search of emplo:vmcnt. the Government were guing to pa v for the In many cases these men-and when' I sav whole of tl:e ':ss<;ts of the company; the hon. these men I men the copper gaugers ·whO member still msists on

I a.m not going to say anything with regard HoN. \Y. H. BARXES: Xo. I am dealing to the future of the copper industry in with the question of the £30,000 which has Queensland. I say that of my knowledge­ he •n intt-oduccd into the debate. and I speak as a practical miner who has The 'TP.E.\St:RF.R : I think your refusal on "·orked in most of the Chillagoo mines.­ thrtt ou asion has resulted in the Ion of most of thcc·.c mines arc good paying shows. p:·oduction to Qucen,lancl of thousands of But, in addition to that, most of the country tuns o£ copper. in the Chillagoe district has barely been scratched; most of it has neYcr been pros­ Ho:--r. IV. H. BAR'\l~S: 'l'hc hon. gentle­ pected, a.nd will nevd' be su'cccssfully pros· man only thinks. Ho knows that the Chilla· pectcd until smelters are again in >Yorking goo C:=.nz1pany \q•rf' not onl,\ in trouble then, order in Chillagoe or :.ome other centrally hut had bct'!1 in trouble fo1· lllU.IT". ,\ears, and situated place, so as to gin~ these gaugers l_r~ kuo·,· s that th···: had gJnc i·o the doben­ an opportunity of g 2ttin~ the stuff treat eel ture-holdc 'S and h~Yith the rBport GovER"1IENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear! of the S0lc,.;t Co··nn1iUt•e to-ui~ht, as the hon. mcmk'r for D,dbv h.''" dealt dliciently HoN. \V. lL BAR:'\ES (Buiimba): The v:ith it. It has been' eontc:nded ln some hon. 1nnn1hl'r ''Tho L _1.S re~tuned his , Pat and hon. m0mlwrs oppo ;tc thrrt this pai:ty are the hon. member >Yho pre.-iow'ly spoke-and r:gainst rni!1in~ dc-..,·clopn1r>nt. I hope that especiallv the latter ho•L member-gave tlw ('Y('r'<- hon. nw.'nL •r, ·,·-hethPr on this r:-ide or very strongest argumPnt why this Bill should the Other, will realise that there is a dut-<' not be canied bv tlw Hou.-:e. The bon. C'P .t upon u~-\ as reprr Pntativc~, of n.hvays member fGr Gregory distinctly stated that taking the wider vie •'>" of tho needs of Queens­ the territory, from a mining point of view, land, and tryin;::- to adopt the very best had only been scratched. methods in connection with that view. I }fr. PoLLOCK: That aJ?pliu to the whole think that e.-ery hon. member will come to of Queensland in connectJon with the copper a conclusion, after havin" loJk<·d at the industr;-. different phases of this Bill according to his HoN. \'ii. H. BAR::'\ES: The arguments conscience, and v·ill .-ote accordingly. used by the previous speaker were a! "o. of I want to look at the matter, fYhat immediatelY turned round to show that it I have rc·peaterlly said on the public plat­ would be absolutely unwiec to go in for this fl'nn, tlmt I hcli<'Ye that th8 Chillq;oe Com­ particular business. One of the first objec­ pany were verv ln rgely relping lated npon that Go.-omment taking the the- C:,irns Raihra.-v line 1norc parHrularlv. course •vhich they did at that particular That rail·. a:· would not haYe been the pro­ juncture. position which it is if it ],ad not b0on backed I-Ion. vY. ::';"_ GILLIES: It was quite in keep­ un by this entPrprise. I k!Io'·'· that mf'mbers ing with their usual attitude towards mining. of the Government may sav that that is a strong argument for this B!ll. but thi« com· HoN. \Y. H. BAR':'\ES: I shall show later pany ccrtainl.v was a fnctor in 11clping in on that it ,. as only in kPeping with the the de.-elopment of North Queen•lrnd. And attitndB which should have been adopted b:,' I suppose. notwithstanding what our Yiews a Government which was out to safeg,-uard may or may not be with regard to private the best interP't' of the State. To me it is <'ntcrpriee, I beliE>ve it should bP a source of a most amazing thing to lind that some hon. deep regret that any person who honestly members opposite a.re advocating the giving 1Ticc to clPYclop the countr:v or anv of the of money to private enterprises when at districts of this State should faiL I belie.-e, one period in the )if,. of the party opposite­ n s I do not lwsitate to sa~· to-night. that in it may be that the hrm. members who have my judgment it is a good thing to encouragB spokPn are not responsible for that-they private C'lltPrprise with proper mfcguards. would ha.-e attC'mpted to clown any Govern· I know that is a theorv that some members ment which, for one moment, proposed to on the opposite side w"ill not endorse. advance a sum of tnon{-':,y t.o a private enter­ prisP. The TREASl'RER : \Vh;- did you not make that ad ranee in 1914? · The TnEIS1:RER : iYhat do :''OU mean by "ad,~ancP a f'tun of Inoncy "-do you mean Hox. \Y. H. BAR::'\ES: The hon. membPr to make a purchase? knows that if it had been made it would [Mr. Pollock. Ohitlagoe and Etheridge (18 JUNE,] Railways •Bill. 325 have been one of the mo:

.are <:0-rb- in L':r"'t.oratf'•1 included in a group HoN. \V. H. BARNES : The hon. member which as a ·-_,:tttCl' of fact have, perhaps, will havG an onnortunity in his reply to sho'A threo_j ur focr repre:::cnf-.l'!:::iYC" in this Hou~~,, where the ri.!( ~~omes ill. I have no hesita­ \Vl1E':'f ,'.S o. cording to the de:rooc-rat:!c prin­ tion in ~aying that there is no risk in h"(lVing <:ipie ho lG:>__,\,·;-; they ou(!'ht only tJ "L,hethE" ~ high ,,-ages at·~· Ti; ht. _\nd let me say that The E~o~I:... SFCRE'i'.'!.:::·~ : D~) vou t~1in~r for o-:.-.:.~ Jnon1ent tl1;"C f1c Tr•_a~,ur~r ;,yould con1- thiq rar(\· do not f.': lDd for lO\". \VO.,Q:-:·3. lnit the Cc;U!1t!'Y tD a k~'3 of 0\';.'l' half a Hon. \Y. "'· 0-rLLIES and GOYERcD:Fxr 1nillion L1r a _ tc~.. tson like that? J'.IDI<>FRS: Oh, Y' s! Ho::. \Y. :a. BAR::--.:ES: The hen. mcmk·r I;: ox. \Y. H. }3_\R'\ES : '\o, thi,; part_y ' " to pay for this kind, b>..:~:-u· ··'. 1vhcther '' <' like it or not it. c have eo .- ,ce it. E" P' .,ially after the The Ho:-.n:: SEem rARY: I think • ou tlunk "\Yur, ..,._ e FlF ll 1" 1.v0 to Yie\v the position fron1 rnoro of th Coinp. -nies v. ho pull the strings tho .. tandpoint s to .how \VC \;-ill etand out· than the (~on~rnment. sidP. Tho Tr, a ·nrer says that they haYC advanced only 25 p<'r c< c1t. Hox. \Y. H. BAR'\FS: I cannot admit the ""tat, ~·ncnt of the I--Iomc\ S;>cretarv. lie The TREASCRER: That wculd be the out­ asked for t.he infonnation. and I hasG given -side li•nit. it. Balled do,vn, the-e propos,Js are not so Hox. W. H. BAR'\ES: As I interjectc>d 1nuch for gPtting rail~.~- rrys or \vhat 1nay be at the ti,ne, the hon. member is altogether got from them, but in thn direction which ·wrong. \VatrPS have fHlvanced, in my judg~ has been hinted at b·; the hen. member for ment, mOY" than 25 per cent. Grcgory-that the proposnls are going in the The TRE.ASURER : I was speaking of tho dir- ction of h1rther State enterprise, so far Chillagoe district. as smeltin~~· i·- concerncll. Hox. \V. H. BAR:::\ES: Yes, I am, too, :Yir. PoLLOC]{: I did not hint at that, but and I think it will be admitted that, whether it might not l c a, bad idea if we were, we do or do not like it. for a conciderable Ho:... \Y. H. BAR::":ES: Possibly I have time the pric•'S of certain cc•mmodities will dr.1.wn "a hm-; at a venbne" and not failed. ],,, bound to ao up. That will continue until Mv own opinion is that behind it is a desire thfl war is 'Over, and perhaps come time that the Government may have the oppor­ after. The late Secretarv for Public Lands tunity to f'mbark etill further in State enter­ will knov; that there are' commodities which pri,es. It does not matter whether they pay he deals in, and \Yhich we deal in, that are· or not. increasing in price every year~ vVith regard to the qw stion of labour con­ The TRn~cRER int0rjectcd. ditiong g;enerally. I •vould like to emph that must appeal to hon. who do not seem to care one iota about the members. <'xpcnditure-further opportunities for ex­ The TRE.FCP.ER : So far as wages are con­ ploitation i~ that particular regard. cerned, in America copper miners get higher wag2s than they do here. Th." TRE.\S{;RER: You do not dispute that it would bring population to the Xorthern Hox. \V H. BAR::'\:ES: I am not suggest­ districts 1 ing that copper miner' should work at a lo~er rate. because if there is one calling­ HoN. W. H. DAR::--.:ES: I do not. Of more than another where nwn should be well coursn, the Etheridge Railway is included paid it is mining. Conditi<:ms a~e suc;h th!'t m the agreem<'nt. The Acting Premi·Jr miners should be well pard. I notwe, m knows that in ·about thr<'o and a·half years Donnection with the proposal to pay the that will have to be taken over by the Go­ Etheridge Company £225,000, the clause in vernment, and I want to know why there is the Bill gives the Government a very wide this great. anxiety on the part of the Govern· option indeed, both with regard to the cur­ ment in connection with this Etheridge Rail­ rency of the debentures which, I take it, are way, especially, as was pointed out by the to be issued and also as to the rate of hon. member for Dalby, when cerfain clauses int.erest and other matters. provide for the taking over of the line en The TREAScRER: ::'\ot as to the rate of certain eonditions. There ean surely be no interest. risk in leaving it to mature. HoN. W. H. BAR::'\ES: Probably I mis­ The TREASURER : There is risk. read it. I certainly thought both matters. [Hon. W. H. Barnes. ('hillagoe and Ethcrul:,·e [18 Ju::>rE.] 3:27 were left in the hands of the Treasurer. will have to be spent to develop the dis':rict Ho·;·p;·er, the Trr osurer •·a>:; thet it is not from a mining point of Yicw. IT e on this so, and I :-- ccQpt his ::;b,tc1nei1t. The question side arc not opposed to development as far of c•ucre:1cy and tlw quc•tion of the Bill ~ 1 mining is concerned, but \\'e do <;'ay that probably arise Yery 1ar6d:Y from the f:;,ct it is e~ ntial to sec a ·.n1;? ont. bee :us0 if tlw:: thr G-OY€r __ rnent arc anxious to be able the nropo:c:ds aro not pro;10sals that; com­ to pe thi·. £225,000 :•t n certain period. mend 'hcm-nlYes and ar1c not li:_el': to work The Ire lsurPl', ho•··cver, ·,,ill Le abl.;: to let out ·.':ell, th?n it is eventually g0ing to bring· Hi k>ww bout the., lr t< r. \Yith regard to rli"> ,~,_.r to >:.he 8tat"'· Then tl,,,l'C ] another t:_r_-r 1-l'op< .. -(tl-:, thf'rc arc ~-Jmo nucstions f]U'~·:ion: \Vill it assist the development of vd1Ll1 T 1 on]d like to a~k. Fi1"~. I -w:~'1t to t'.2 lnn(b irl the ~or:~.~.·? I t;:kc it the f~3iing a k, ie it iwsine•s propo·,ition put bcfor· us (:f c~ 'r;: .w __ Jwr in this Charnhcr is that it in this Bill? I think u ·wane who h" nre- i~ f''~se:rHh.l, 8''1 fr:D· 1." po:---iblc~ that 've should fv_lly +bJ --~t~·h tl:" ~ c,-id-:--n~c must at '•c·k t:l du. clop o·n· land. .'I. far as i can OIK ~~ re- _JJ that It j,, nJt a SOUJld busine;;;s ~.:Lther "'tvith 1'< gu,rd tn the proportion c~ land pro: :::- · 'l. I'~ · not r pr0p031' ion -, ~-hich .' 1 .it~ble for p stot''_l pursuit:4 at lea~-. there the Ol'di:aary iJ 1 LL.vid·r:ul onld go into. It is < r0 1 t Yt'!''" rrltun- \\·hiC"h arc not directlv .·;Jto2"ethc1· opr<- --:d to b~.;;incr_·') principles. link( d up ulrcaJy... Thc. ·~ are not suflk~enC, Vi'c find the G.n·crm,l0nt put in tlw l'C"ltion a pp ·,re_ntl.-, 12 p.ull-: _-, . tt:~ line a p,Lyable of J_;l·actical\"· r, licY~-; pt at- th• compa:1v or the dolccnture­ r.. nch v. hi eh lino they go to. - holden for t'w Il•''""". tlw;. have put into the The Tm:,\.,UnH: I do not think that one concern, b-~lt the l;oYcrnn1!?nt. --.honld not h ... ad of dock goes on hoof to the Bihoohra be 11ln(_ _d in tL- 110s~tion of c0n1ing to the 111.-Flt'\·or:;:s. rf·'·Cu'"' of f! (':Jmpan:, that ilnd-:i itself in difficulti<'s. I '.vould lik•3 to a,k another Ho". \Y. H. BAR::'\ES: I am quite pre­ P :red to acc•"pt the Trc .. 'Ul"er's statement. question: From a raihv .1 y standpoint I should it be c;one on with? -I think ever~ do not hesitate to say, in connection with hon. nwmber in this Hou>'e will admit tha·t the'·" proposals, that Yery largely this Bill is introduced in order to 1nake '•ecure the thNe are propo-itions in conneetio:1 with btarting- of the 'meltcrs in that partiLular railwa~·s '"hich have to be conoidered from cli,,,_;·iet in ordc:r to giye the Government th.e brr~d and n,·~ional etandpoint, and we w1ll all agrc e that e.-erv trunk line· in another opportunity of embarking upon State part:cular, imd every fc:eder tu trunk line·•, cntcrpris(. .. , altl:11. ugh -,....,~elikno\v of case·" \Yhich 1s an 1n1port .. nt esscnbal totvards the de­ han• not bt \'Cl"• asked and Hon. W. H. Bames.] 328 Chillagce and Eiheridge [ ASSEIIIBL Y.] Railways Bzll. certain objections were raised and thev were twx. \Y. 1\. GILLIES: This is what 1h. detailed in that report unani~ouslv w1th one Evans said at question 320, page 24, of the exception ; and yet, as far as I 'have been Select C0mn1ittee's report- able to !lather, no attempt has been made to get f'YJdence to answer those objections. " I shoul·cl imagine that if the com­ !)any a;;ke.cl for a loan of £30,000 it was 'Tlue TRE.\ScREll: All the particulars which onl.v a reasonable requL,t. The Govern­ should be adequate to furnish anv formation ment would have had a lien on the were in the hands of the members of the rolling-stock and the railwa; itself as a Select Committee and the members of this 'ccurity, 1 was not asked to give any Hou;c. report. but T mentioned the matter at the time to ::Yir. Paget, '' ho told me Ho'>. \'\. H. B~\R~ES: I take it that, in casunlly that the company were after a CO!lncction with " prcposal such as this, the loan of £30,000. and I said I thought me1;c "tatPnwnt from the ::Ylinister, not backed tb?\' should I"Pt it because we alwavs had up oy anythmg cl··c. should not be taken, nor rolfing-s;:oek.- buikhngs, and the lillc. should we b<.:' expected to take it. "...:\., SC'cnrit.~, ?-Yes, if \YC ,.,-anted it." 'Th ·, Trm.\'·1'RER: The Railwav Commis­ sioner's rt:~)ort VIUS there, and Dthevr reports. J'\o,;-. the hon. gentleman has intimated b,, interj' ction that we would have lost that I-Io:-;. W. H. BARNES: Those reports £30.000. IY ell, I intend to ,,sk him whether. were not altogc'thcr in the direction of endors­ haYing- sho\vn t~o n1uch concern about the ing: th~"·.e propol3als. ..c\s far a the railway £30.000. he might not have bee1: a little bit propos1t1on and the actual cost they do; but 1nore conc:?rn('d about the monc•T taken £ron1 I ; · y t lw rcporL do not altogether endorse :.he taxnan·rs of Qnoenslan•d in connection the•··' proposal~. ,,·ith the r:mtter which the member for Bris­ Hon. .T. :\L Hc"'TER: Did vou read the bane callt"~d attentl0!1 to the other night in Cor:nn:ds·i.oner's report and recO'mmendation? hi·' spc0rh and whirh is referred to in the Auditor-General's renort for 1914-15 i11 con­ Hox. \'\. II. BAR::'\ES: Ye3. I read it as ncC'tion \YHh the res1~unntion of c:'rh:jn land clo'cely HS the hon. member, and anyone who at II:.~milton. I am a lrnost tempted to read has g;on<' careful!v throuo-h the report must what the hon. gentleman had to say with coL ·c to the condtvion t'hat answers should L'gard io the'·" twv portions of land that ha :e be<'n gi,-en to the Select Committee; \Y ""l't' l'P~nmt?•rl en that occasion, to sho\v ho'v and I am quite certain that if they had been liberal,mindcd the Treasurer was when it capable of being got the Treasurer would ( nrnP to a nud:tE>r uf lading out money in ha"'' been only too ready to have got them. 8onfneru Quel'llfl>land-in the metropolitan deC'toratc~-as compn1ed v.:lth a reasonable The I-Imm SECRET.\RY: These proposals will rPqlF'st from the Chillagoc Company to lend (SO lo~1g a Yvay towards helping the people ~lv~1n £30.000 to kc0n that great v, orks going m the J'\ orth. in ~orth Queensland. IIox. \Y. II. BARXES: I am pleased to Hon. \V. H. R.\RxEo: 'They were i:nproved J:tear the Home Secretary say that, because properties. 111 the pa>t there has been a disposition not to help in that regard. This side of the Hox. W. ~- GILI.IES: WelL the Auditor­ Honse is jusc as mindful of the necessitv of Gcn('ral knr\v 'I\' hat sort. of prop~rti0s thr~y· p_eopling the ~ orth as hon. members oppo­ \' ,)-;_ :._', a:; rl thf'.:3(' \VCl'C lns 1'01nan;:s. I ant SJtc. and we realise how important it is from quotinr-: fron1 th0 ~\uditor-General',._.;; report QlJ.r cl0s0 praxi'..nit:; tc vther uativ:t:ts; but f~:rr 1D14-15, puge 30, iil clca.li:ag v~ith pro­ we are not going to people the J'\ orth by p:::·rtirs r,,,,nl:nt:d for harbour itnpro..-ements propo,nls ouch as this-bv proposals which en the Ih·i~hane Rh~ ~r. First of 2ll there h are fin~ncially unsound, an'd which eventually (:'iestion ::'\o. 63. He points out that whilP are gorng t~ bring unsatisfactory results to this propt•rty was off0rcd to the Government the commumty as a result of embarking on m 1[)11 at £30 an acw. amounting to £21,000 them. I sl:all certainly vote against the for 7CO acrpc•. the Go,·ernmcnt purchased 526 second r1 aclmg of the Bill. "cres for £70.979 Ss. 6<1. That was one item. Th~ next ih:nl. recording to thP ....'-\.uditor­ Hnx. W. K. GILL1ES: The attitud~ Grncral. is that included in the propertie, which the hon. member for Bulimba has purchased during 1914-15 was one comprising discloseccl bv his spcecl1 to-nig·ht is quite in 41, acre" 7 rn·rchcs in the county of Stanley, keeping with the nttitnde hi·-- Government parish of Toombul. The Anditor-General had to Xorth ('ueen·.Jand and the ~;rcat mm- ~a vs- ing industry gunerally. - " I note from the paJPrs that in 1912 GoVERx)IEXT ::YIE:IIBERS: Hear, hear! this !1l'Operty was ..-alucd by Tr0a:.-ury at £2.115. being houee. etc.. £545 nnd land Hox. W. X. GILLTES: The ho11. gentle­ £Lr>70. An off,,r of £2.000 was then man sap hL perused the report of the Selec~ mad2 by the Tr,casury, but it was not Committee. and I ., oulcl like to call hi< ncceptr:.d. ::\otire of n')~umption under attention to a ':·tat<;lnent n1ade in that report th Public \Yorks Lands Resumption Act by Colonel E''ans, appointee of thP late was pnbli "heel in the ' GoYernment Liberal Government. The member for Gac .'tt ,• of 26th' Anril. 1913, but was sub· Bnrke. in his '.'er;:c' "blP speech thi. afi \r­ ~r qllPntly re --;cinded nwing to son1e infor­ noon, calJcd attention to the fact that had mality. On 22nd February, 1915, how­ the la' , Trca mrr r (:'\fr. Barnes) granted the cn•r. the solicitor for the mnwr ct-dYisecl £30.000 to th:of' Comnanv, which that ho w:,uld accept £6.000 and a five thev required during- 1913-14 \Vheri he wa,, or tr,n years' tena.ncy at a fair rentaL Treasurer-and the~ people of the Xorth. On the authority of thP Treasurer (HmL almost to a man, demanded, that that should IY. I-I. Barnes) • thJ·, offer was ac0ented. be done-probabl~' the Chillagoe works would and an amount of £6,000 was paid for have been going in full swing to-day. the !'roperty in ~Iay, 1915." The 'I'RE.\SURER : Hear, hear ! I am not suggesting for a moment that the -,Hon. W. H.' Barne.s. Chillagce and Ethendge [lS JUNE.]• Railu·ays Bill. 329

:'_bon. g<.'J1tlen1nn received anything hin1sclf. encouraging so far as this proposition i5 con­ hut I am pointing ont that the hon. gentJt,. cerned. The hon. member for Dalhy quoted ·man, as Treasurer, refused to lend the Chil­ some of the quescions and answers by Mr. la;rat' Company £30,0GO on probably the be,t Ball to show that J\fr. Ba]] was uneertain as '''cmity that could be obtainable-that is, to what the proposition was underground. the :,~curit· of a railway with 60-lb. rails in In reply to qu~stion 243, Mr. Ball said- t:o'"'cl. l\·or1dng conditiO,p. Evon if thflrE' " The State can make up in otllf•r 1ven• no furthc r ,ecurity it 'Yonld ha ye bl··•'n ways. It is a benefit for the people in a good proposition. I was in )J orth Queens­ the district, and that is a benefit. to the land at th" time and practically all tho sujl­ State." port('l'~ of the th(_·u Govcrnincnt~hambors o[ coqnnel'C'P, lm al author-Ities-hold meet~ Further on he £ays- in~:; ,r '1 ndssed _·c ..;o!ution~ ur:ring· that thi,~ " I could not estimate th~ quantity of ad,·anre s'lwul d be r "'dr· m order to ke<•p ore in sight." thi..., grl"ctt u •tional concern going·. Had th<1t Question 252- 'IT l\1E}fBERS: Hear, hear! cour,e, to C···timate the Yalne of the ore underground. _._.\nother qu~stion '\vas- Hox. vY. X. GILLIES: \Ye hear a lot " Your ide>t is that t.) a large extent about patriotism. \V" know that nothing is the 'ej e,' ha Ye been torn out of the field wanted to-da:· to a gr<•ater extent to help and the low-grade propositions lefc ?- IYin this ~1,ar than copper. If it wcrP not No." ' for the '' dog-in-the-mangrer '' attitude of the late Go1 ornment one ";ou!d not worry so Those are come of the ans·.·. ers of ~1r. Ball. much about it. Th<;J Chillagoe pcopl•'·-dw Hon. '.V. H. BARNES : There is nothing sharehol,ler~, the debenture-holders-are not committal there at any rate. a blc to restart these works themselves, and Hox. W. :\. GILLIES: The member for the Opposition and the Upper Hou." appear Dalby endeavoured to lqad this Chamber to in the f'l··t to have been determine .l to pro­ believe th;'.t the evidence of JI.Ir. BalL as .Yent rhe Gowrnment from taking over the disclosed by the reading of the Select Com­ Chillagoe works and the railwav at what I mittee report, was all against th<.! under­ su~1n1i~ i_s a n~a.sonable- price, ~bc::!ause the taking by the GoYcrnment. I say it was not j)i'lCC ''' JUst half ''hat was c··mtemplated by so. the preyious Government-£900,000 as com­ p-nd .with £450,000. The proposition, from Hon. '\Y. H. BARXES : Why don't you finish the pomt. of Yiew of :::\orth Quet;mland-and the ans ·..,·er? I speak as a Xorth Queenslander-is a c>. I vernment· to assist to develop the industries could quote a good manv more answerc; that in North Oueensland. I cannot conceive of ,,-ould h0lp me, but it is noc necessary for anything that 1vould be a greater boon at me to do so. \Yhat I want to speak particu­ the present rime, quite ,. part from the neces­ larly about in shpport of this proposal is the sity of the nation or thq :Cmpire as far as effect which the takin;; ovH of the railway copper 1s concerned. I cannot conceiYe of and the working of the mine will haYe on anythiqr that could b" done by this GoYern­ j\~orth Qu0ensland generally. I don't think ment a.t ~he ~resent ~imc to help to rejuvenate rmyone who knows N'orth Queensland will the mmmg mdu 'tl'les of North Queensland deny what I am about to say. It is a very than the taking over of the Chilla,.oe works. unfortunate thing for North Queensland that I repre',rnt an agricultural district" and I am ever·.- member in this Chamber ha·> not c.atisfic-rl that a number of the se!'cctors who visited the "matwns and answers were not sui table, when it gets the rainfall. vVe get the rain­ and being of a legal turn of mind of course fall in North Queensland; W(l ·have the soil he cimply picked out that which suited him­ there: and we want to get for the pc•,jple a self. I s~1ppose the only real expert who little bit of assi,tance from the Gm·ernment, was exammed, and who could give informa­ and the patch of country north of Towns­ tion with regard to the mineral value of the ville is capable of rarrving a great deal more proposition, was ~h. BalL Mr. Ball-though, than the present population of QnPensla.nd. I believe, quite an honest man, is regarded A man who had traYeiied the world said to as the pessimist of the Mines Department; me some time ag-o in Atherton, that taking but cYen some of his answers were quite lOO square miles from Atherton-which would Hon. W. J.Y. Gillies.] I [..\.SSE::>JBLY.] include Cairn~·i ancl the sugar land:'.J of the nnn1n,r; inclusb·y o: ::\or~:h Queen:d;:.nd. The· :\1ul;rave and the Johnstone River, take in Fecler~J Government han• done all th-•y the Palrner Goldfields, the Chillagoe and could to cri:1~1le it by, first o~ a11, pa ,-;ing \Volfrarn Camp, the HerbPrton, Atherton, the ~g_er;cy for nwtnls on to_ palr,ety and ~\o., <'nd Sonh Johnstone scrub-take in that lOO and giYJD.g a monopoly to ''"<; lh.:rmJ J<,.C•.• sqt~are railes of cot±nh·y it wa,, saf~ to s_ay. trolv6c Con1panv i'1 ce--:1n.,.;ction v,'ith ra:n: the' . .: w -" no orh·..,r part o£ the \Vorld '~:.lth rnet~h. I hor-''-' ~t\1is agreement vriH ~J~ T .. ti- ~u·-h a grez,t v:.-riety ol natural \VC8.lth. I1,irst fled ~ tht,t the GovernnH~nt 'Yill in of all, there \V a_, the £TE:·at n1ineral wctdth, ' ri-.l0 Le: a;,;L· to re-cs ,bii:)ll th- which was ably dealt ,;·ith to-night by the ,, n'<.s tc the benL:t of Q:_:.ccnslznd rit'.:a; nn r and the rilcnbl'::: for BuTke. Thea "c come to the gre_:t agricultm·a! possibili­ d -.s-thP soil, -\hi .h I n·ts proYi0>d by '.l iti~"' .r:~· u,__J Judgn_,_'~ 1t ::tt fir.-·t "'E;_0 f a: char~_,c. :1, J (~ ·--!l't~ t J :'3 ? :e\ . \YO -b, in ('0DlleC- ::\1r. PAYXL: ...--\.nd -.._~10 tL.~.1ber? \··irh th:::. Lill. Th_: for .J~c rice h:•s said th ·t thu~ Lox. \'\-. X. GILLIBf:\: ~Iy friend tlw re~[~:·(~ , ' cgrionltl!~·2, ;ta~1~l.:.. -r.1~t~:.d a.!l_v­ ll;t~..-·nl 1 )C'~" for, ~·litc~,el~ in~crject:~ r..._ga/'din~ ~he . of t\ -_. \\,t!,:~lth u:t ~-... c-r·trl Qu' ens1allv.. rnat f t:ir i ::. Q\\c _~' l<:u. -:i... .L t11~ k Tila t 1s ~o. L ·J 1· J;_r - <11 ~lw ~ n IS. ,,-orb1. I h: Vf' vrslt;-fl ,_ i-s sucn . to ju~:"'..lf:)' d Y< r ..: large expenditure of Govc.Tnnu:nt Inoney in order eo t=-~). d: a1 <.1 there is ~o ·dl· .ric) I lHlYf" tlc>·elop and 8stab!ish indu.•h:0s there. lt is a se- .~.l. in QnrJnslancl or any_ oi thf -.·,-ell-kno-,~'n f .... ct that the Queen>Sland 1r1aple otjle:::· SL re:::, th:t can c:--nlf-''.r _ ~.-; 1th that 1 is be( )lninr:.: kno"\Yn throughout ..-:'~ustrulia, and dietric~ ) f r us- -cgricult -.ral L.nd i· :.Jn­ i faot tal p!ne a_nd }u-t'·d, ovd5. Th~ . ti1nbcr ;Yealt!1 1nineL1l field,,-: -;.Here not only Droduce -canner. "ton<' l!I :::\ orth QtLens!anG 1s sud1 t:tat 1t 1'Ut uL~o th~; r- \T nlC·taL' v:hi{'\ a;:~. not !ol1nrl Y\'ould ju.~-~ify "I large ex1Jenditure. Xo\v, in other parts of the world in ·url, abund­ thr JC industric s can be af.:-i-.ttd by the bring· .. r~c·. I - Raih··ac. 1 , ;_, uthoritv on n1inin[.f, and on \.Yat£>red stock. th<> raihYay alone. even if we hd to this because I an1 the lll0l1e}, seeing that thece are 60-!b. rdils. onposecl to the socialistic 'cherrcs of the '-:hich are ·c,'"antcd~bt·c.·tnse all the new r;dl­ non•rnrnent." He does not cone id; r whether -ways that a:-e beiiF:· sanctioned are being it is o·oin.:: lO 1: (·~ a good thi11 ,~ for t"!-te peo!)lP l-ouilt '·' ith 60-lb. r,til·~. That alone would of Qneenslar;d. ~lll h~, ror..sidcrs is ho\\- ll.P juetify che GoYernment in payir:.; the money (·1n opnr,<:'e thP GoYcrnment because he j-, in tho.t th,·y pro;>o"e to pay. l)ppo,i+irn. The p<'ople in the country wiJl \VC' have to renwmber also th<' great ro"l be able to ta1:c th,ot for wl1at it ;,. worth. o "-ant?+ c ,s ~?~~L~-1~;\_: ri~h~.~~ish ,.~·~,~!~>~~"~cl ·_/t.b~nd to->·houkl be taken over for ·-,, l_ not goi1 ~ to 1::-.__ a bt:•)iiL3S con­ foi the _c ond~riol~S was that c~r 1. T~1o . o11ly_ ;,v y \' ( f'ill1 ~·r·t to knOYl J,_ proYiacd1 oy the Govern­ >.~· .. 1oth0r ~t; JJ go.d--::· LJ L a busrn concera luer~t , _r:urpose o~ ~nablin~ the c·Jln_p~ny 1 is by )-, ,rd, m ,ttcr-o£-fact evidQnce. The "'J .,,-,::_~::·~.:: t.::le _ 1.0'~nt -::\lulbgun nnHl . I 1srtcd _r , ~ u ,_j0yc~·:;:u:_lcr.:_t , Tere :'_::,kL·1 to "fyance rhC' ,.. :.ou~-::t ~.l~dli; c .:. 1~jL- , 'llY.,;"'y !un:e four ~p~~--~.COJ fc·· ~I~ ~lll'pr~_e 0;. :~llowinr•· _th0 tlllJ .__._ cc d t_ ·"·c. cr.. Pl>Oi."C tilG other. 1 1 C1Eilnb :.0 Conq1J.P -~· :o UCYClO~J ·.__ne Cf'aLnu1cs On(' erc.n o_:_ eo _l-:~~o. 2--,,·hic 1 the"-, arc in tl~e Xorth of QuL n~ 1.~ nd, a-:H-1 enabl:· tl 'Ll ~, kiug at the lJl'--'SCnt time, if> Q VE'r"'; r"oOd 1-,_1 .Jl'OL1.n_ce ~ucl so that tlF•v y,-u.llcl be able tl~ tli11g o:..tL c~n(_·~ the-Y <:;:.re H~Jle tc; ·\··orl.;:: to f"::_nclt ih_;r Ol'C at C ~ iJlc Co-t. rfh._: --- ;{ H:HL;ing purpo~e.. Th~ { nkl,) tO :::~Tielt Ol'L' ~et that v·..]:; < vsting ,, ,.L'11': nf c:oal \Yill not bo \Yorkcd ,_c,S lE::. per ton. Ha\·ing to p.1.v tho~c p:._~ccs, f,~r ,._cain.ing- purpo ; bu:: the> they \Vf';·e unnblr- t.' c l"l',· o:::.. Thev ha-d pi'{ fitably ~,.;orked if the compan:-,- can ;;.pent J consideTable r~mount of n1onev On the Inor.~ to laY down the up-to-date iie!l. The_c clr·•'rcd to n.ake it pay, and thPy intei1d to put do-wn. The thcr.Aorc & ·:ked for thie adYance. Tlw pre­ f'ompany h:n· already ,pent ~Ol'Wthing like vi(·"'-.lS GoYf'rnnlent did not go into the 1natt~r ~4CJ in cutting OLL a foundP1:ion for the

to see T ;h thcr or not it "\Yas f!Oing to be a coke wmk~; but they had to stop their ·work good conc._;·n for the people of Qu~cnsland. then because they could noc get furthe1· ThC>y said, " \Ye n re not goin1: to udv anco lll(~nc·y to c.:rry on with, It is propc;sed to any n1oney to help the 1nining industty." put 1n a \Y:1shing plant and utili c the soan1'' That "•s thci" attitude all alO!"'' the line. t:1at :- rr· dirry for coking pur_tJost~, and keep Th y vrcre quite prepJred to help the produce ~:he other ~"';.:an1:~ for steaming purposes, and 1calf'rs.; but \vhen it ca1ne to hr>li> _thr- Inining­ ~ ab la t .J ut ~Esc the \V hole of the coal n .. Ju,,try the>: ,,-oukl haye nodnng to do vmrk the min0 profitably. W c find i hlbicJc.rable amount of-money.· They takmg over the railwav and rhe share that hav-e an up-to-date • l·:·ctricnl plant-in fact, the. Govanment had not go~ in the Ethe;·idge Ra1lway. Anotl1.o· fine piece of legislation 2\1oL1LL ~~rullig 111 is cnc of rho IliOst up-td-date tov n vvc hav-e. \Yhen I v. as there the,. had "\\~hidl ~he Liber;ll Gove.::·nment passed v~-as the Etheridge Railway Bill, under which the tlw electric light on, BO that the men 'could Gov<'rnmcnt was tied up. After fifteen vears r;lay quoit·, nt night, and they h"v-e the town- the GoYcnunent would haYe to pa-v orl the 0 hip light" r1 np, and ""Jtoo;other they have set Lit to make :Haunt :\lulligan vc!mt it ought ba~:s of t~10 rec~iYing year's. revenue of the ''uh;ay \vhen tncy bought the line. That to be. meant t!nt tlY co:np::nv {'.Juld inflate their freights so that the Go'vernment would not The hon. member for Dalby, v.-ho •·et out know vvhat they were going to have to pay to oppose this Bill, "!id that mining for th~ lme. The present Government, in machinery is not so good to-day as it was order to rrev cnt that and put the matter on twdve months ago. I can tell the hon. a good basis, said. •' All right, if we negotiate member for Dalby that the mining machinery for the taking ov-er of the Chillagoe line ,,,-e in the C'hillagoc works has been stored CLnd must aLo ne:;otiate for the part of the ured fo:· and it is not in the same condition Ethcrid~;c line we h.~v-e not already got, and as it v1'onld be if it were lying out in the ha,·c the control of the v.hole of the rail­ vv-eather rusting. nor the same as if the "\Vay." )lE.-ssr"' Thvnne and ::.\:IaC'ftrtnev. who boilers r r anything else ':·ere being used a' that time were 'the representativ-e,' of the and were deteriorating-. The whole of it is f'Olnpany, negotiated "\Vith the Gon?rnment stored and in first-class order, In fact, am) wanted £1.200,000 for the c:,illagoe nearly the whole of the "melt-"rs arc ready Rallw:1y. Th(" they dropped from that to for stvr:ing at once. Yery little more would £950.000, then to £900.000. and subsequently be neco·· "' r:; before putting them in opera­ cam<' dcwn to £800,000. The Prr,mier then tion. They have one of the finest assa:v v·.-cnt away to the old countrv. and there got rooms in Australia, if not the finest, with into touch with the debent1ue-holdcrs. He some of the most up-to-date instrum.ent.s. asked thc·m wht·t they were prep:crexl l'' take, which it is prartic:tlly impossible to obhin and he got an offer from them to let the in Ou•,ensLnd to-dav. There is sufficient whole lin0 go P_ractically for £500,000, taking elect;_·ical ef!uipmcnt t"here to bring in a large debentures. The e was a great row about amount of money to the GovernmE>nt i>f the:v that here. The Opposition said the Govern­ wish to ;;ell it, beca11se of the high prices­ ment were trying to get in behind the share­ one has to pav no·v. .\ll these things are holdcrs-trving to steal this propert' from there and are 'specified in this Bill. From th0 Chillavoe Company and get it \,.ithout the ev-idencf' of the Commis:·ioner, we know paving for it. Let us see >Yhat :Nl:r. Thvnne that the v-alue of the materials. rails, and had to say about the matter. Speaking in 'o on, is £300,000. 'rhat in itself gives you f'Onn0-ction with this raihray, hP said that a considerablP sum. without the sidings and the Gov-ernment were trying to take this rail­ plant thrown in. Then you haw• the Ethe­ way from the company withoui>' paving them ridge line in addition to that, The Chillagoe the proper price, and went on to ·point out line i;; W<'ll laid and well cared for, right that the Premier was getting in behind the from ~lareeba up. The Etheridge line is- Mr. Gledson.] 232 Chillagoe and Etheridge [ASSE!IIBLY.] Railways Bill.

not so well laid; in fact it looks as if it capital is being expended and. that miner~! were thrown down and it is not in so good will have to go over the railway, and If a state at all as the Chillagoe line. there is one thing whi~h should n:take the Then again, we find that there are great Government push on w1th the takmg over possibilities in the district. Some of the ore of this railwa;,, it is that the whole of the railwavs should belong to the people of the was submitted to me and I brought some 1 down with me. The assay showed that it State \v ho should control them and work c-- t_o the advantage p_eople of ihe ::'\orth at the ,,,me rate propor­ of his sch.·!•·e. But had It not been for twnately as the Govcrnmtt the hon, 1Dembt'C' for Burkc was I admit tlwt he ha' done so much and made well able to speak on the'''' matters, because the b0st of his case. I do sa:; th<_tt he has he was running the trains down and came vcrv faithfully omitted to mention thoe~ into ~ouch every day with the traffic along point'3 which are to his adv!'ntag~. and ther" that lme. 'They were starting at the Biboohra :ere some of thurn. In dealmg 'nt~1 a matter J\!Ieatworks and the cattle haJ to go down like this. we should look at both sides of the the.. Etheridge and then along the Cairns question and allow our conssienccs to. be our Rai.n•; ay to those me.:ttVI:orks, so that quite m a cters in every respect. We have discussed ~ b1g trade was done durmg the cattle season the raih' ay possibilities nnd they are -:ery m that v;~>y. One thing that has taken mv greflt, enn greater than one would bw that the Ch!llagoe or Ethcndge way has the Cairns Railway paid. \\'e sav Railway is going to be of ad,-antag-e to t~e that if one portion of the line is able- t;:, State and particularly to . the- North. , It 1s make another j>ort_ion pay it i ·· good for the one of the '1ECC•oar:; mam trunk railways whole of the distnct, If there io; anv infor­ upon which we depend for the development matiop that I can give in connection with of Qtwensland. R1ght throughou_t the ~tate the matter I should be glad to do it. I haw "" are proud of o~1r s:vsten;1 of rmlways ,ro"!l been throu~;h the district and sc-"n its mineral east to west. and m the :'\ orth we have this Jl5'ssibilities and have everything in as another link in the line t~at some day t~ey mmt span to the Gulf. \Ve smcerely hop_e ~orth Queensland In the 11·av of minerals that whatever may be the outcome of th1s from coal right up to wolfram: molvbdenite Bill it may do something in that regar?, scheelite, and so on. All those minerals ar~ because it is in the development of our rail­ there in a bundancP, ~nd, in fact, in the wavs that we must look for the (\evelopment paper yesterday I noticed that a companv of "our primary industries. W:h.1lst :ve are has been form<'d with capital of £150,000 fo'r developing mi-ning by a proposition hke the the purpose of working one of the mines the one we are discussing, we cannot. ~~IJ? also Treasurer and I visited when there. That developing the agricultural poss1brhtJes of [ilfr. Gledson. Chillagoe and Etheridge [1 S Ju;m.] Rctilu:ays Bill. 333 the rich X orth, and if there is any part of If thi propo·ItiCn does increase the popula­ Queensland whore there is rich scope for cion d tlw l'hilla.goe district as is anticipated, developing the agricultural indn,try-outside we ha,-e chc po,sibility of the greater de­ of the Bunidt-it is this district we are y, lop~n c_lt. of th.- agricultural industry in considcring at thB present time. and "l'OlllH:l the~ t dietriet. \Y o find, us an Mr. O'SCLLIVAN: There is an iron mine up ;::rguL c-nt u ,cl to tll8 advantage of thiR pro­ there. jlc'tion; !lH fnlc th,,t tho :\lpum :JHullig·~n coa,.1eln rs now open, and 1t \vas not rn Mr. CORSLR: \Ve clo not \Yant to have op'-'ration ·wh< n the smclt0rs \VPl'f~ vvorking ('Ycr: thin.~; up thPre. I fllll not -, ';ing that bc•foru. nnd prcba.bly the price of coal anCl I ap opposin'l' thi·o up to the prc,·cLr. tHear, L ".;:e will b _ half th(~ price it \Yas in Lhose ht-11' :) The n1ining po.ssihilitics on I thi:!_1k you ..,,.ill agree that that the L1( of jt. Thu r:1i~1in; pu· of !.;e n ~ r:• ~t a to a cowpany oper.:_,_ting th0 Chi1~ cE':ltril ~ h:-tYe ~nonnt ,•t th<' Pl'C'SPnt and I think it is an 1nany ~1r0 v~ry p}Pasc,, i"? got out Of ~ r ;\..1 111{'')~ thdt rnust bear an amount of it at ':.:('llt tlP'"· .:_\_ great r: ~l0lll1t r-f w:__··o,:n ~n COJ>.ic1-.rin\' this proposition. There 1 hL:-; h· n T~'-"nt. aDd I 1·: aErthoi.~ 1'tfll-11Cllt t l,lt nrobably ekes not [8 p.nL] think no diYiJ. nd l'~lid. Then'-\ < , CC·:;(Clher s·and t} the Cl'. dit OI the pro­ ure 1 Jining propositiu1" in Douth ]JO ition, nnd t~la~ is tho i~~.·reas o[ 1vages Qur c>-u-lc::.nd. aud :;:on ha ,·e p-;t to r;o out of of ~.S to bO p~·r c,_;nt. sir!_cc the s1nc1ters last th0 Burnot~ for thern. You wilJ flnd in de-,•rl do\Ll. Tlwrc is nmethin,-, else tha.t :\Ioullt Perry :Yiine· and smelters that have has to b0 ( ·JL·iden·d, and ./·hat is the fact lJ _id <:_;,-idf'l~H1s ri~;ht Flan~_;, and ,-dlich, h:-.cl tlu;_t the 1·, crkinr hours of the 111in0s "·ill be it not bt:en fu1· fnuHy rnanage1ncnt, \\-ou!d r duce:·d b.:· t'··. J lwurs, or 25 pe; cent., conl- han~ . b~~f'n pnyill<: c1i", ~d0nds at C1e IH'•_:::kn~ 1_~.-.rod \-rith hat \Yaf. opcrJ.t:ir: ")"' a year ago, thru. L,.nfc/tUil tcly, this 1ninc at ::\lount 1 ~ rrlo·w \Yhe~t the mines C'lc-cd do\VJ1 in Pcl"'Y ha' ne 'ivPd · £3.0C~ m £5.000 fnm :\larC'~1. 1914. It is known thc.t tho Gympie the GoYcrn:ll('_)t. in a~s-if't~rcc for 1-rork Yhut S{'o':ti.h ?~fine y,~rY rer:cntJv lF" dcn-rn b0r:1u th£' ~ nTiner~' ·hours were cut h. IJ up. If y, 0 -rn h\o hotn .. and gold is .:1 1nuch more if tl1is pror<)sition i~ to bP C:on~iderccl for vulurblc tcs,-ct than copp< c. C·J]Jpcr :dcoc, v e should not vo further than ::\lr. Dr:0:"···Ax: 'V R·· th2.t tho onlY reason tho 1ninC' 1.1 \Yhich the G-oycrn!nH:t .aJrcatlv fol' the Scoth·h doc-ing down • - oo,m the railway, as they do to Mou:n't P('rry. If copper alone is to be consid-ered, ~rr. COR:"ER: That was tho reason th<> COP1H'r t ~11 be ~;2curecl iron1 n ruining field dirt-:" J:!:3 gn ·e. It 1vas "the la",t ~tra,,~ that tbat has paic: divid,~nds right along. \1 ithout 1n·ok • tlu~ C!lnel'H back." \Yhen the miners going- to a district that has not paid diYi­ "(•cnrf'cl thi -.ward. it n1adc it in1pos-:-ible foi~ den.'-' at all. \Ye cert,inl) know that copper tht: dirc('tor > to ('arrv on, and tbc~. \Yere is at a Yer~· gr-·a,tly in( rca"ed prif'e at the simp!:· thrmYn out of ;,·ork, to the detriment present time, but \VG hope th ·, t the w.u is of t~lc shar' holders and of the workers and not goinv to last much longer, th0 neoplP of Gympie, and the hon. nwco1ber Th<: Hmm fJF:c;lETARY: The ]Jr·,·e of copper for G,T·Ipiu knowo perfectly well that it was will hold up after the w.tr. that action of advanced unionism at a time of stress. when n1ining op('rations could not :\ir. CORSER: It may, but there is no b'l carried on, which closed down th tn iJc Lll·c: d Ethe1·idge [ASSE:YIBLY.] Railways Bill. we hear by interjection a member of the d ; lw ::'\orth. IT i,. "'he d. 'ir<' of everv Govornnwnt say the railways did not pay E1C111Jer of the Opposition to give thi. matte"r becau·"e the Cornmissioncr tried not to ma \,:e fnir consi.der..ttiCJJl. f am frGQ to Supporc them pay? this propo3al, and I understand from the The TREASt:RER AXD GoYERX:.UENT :VIBI- · remarks of hon. members opposite that every BERS: Who said that' p:.,ovision has been m Ylk~ for the developrnent Mr. CORS"CR: A member on the Govern­ of the agricuiL!rcd di'3tric1-..: of the State, and that there ,,·ill b~ su!Ecicnt lllOlleY available Inent side, unless I an1 greatly m:istak~n. If the hon. member for Toowuomba did not lor that purpoEe. make that .-tatem~nt. I withdnw the rema.rk _ c\Ir. SIZER: I : .nr' listened with a groat A GOVERK}IENT ME'TBER: You do not kn·.JW cif;al of incc !, to th~3 ·dcbat:C', and I quitB what you F.r~ talking about. ~u·.~rc:_• that '' e hr u lo,Jk ~.t this TilCdsure The DEPL:TY SPEAKER: Order! Order: from a ,-cry b:·'-"· staiCdpoint. From the rn]hva;· voint of viey;, I a1n inclin(:d to agree Mr. CORSER: 'Cp to rhe present I ha,-e that ir is t _~nnL':;l, ,-·ecing tha~· H~c SL:te o'>· ~t f:aid nothing again,- t the- BilL 'l'he posL:ion oth· railway :::-2. -·hn1 ) to take over thi; 1s that the C DYernuh nt are respo_:lsib]e fol' ( ihillagvc lhv, y. ~'\.. t the .~an:e ti1no I the Bill~ ,,l1jr·h thP,,. in,;roducc. rl'!vv arc~ 2 r~ h'e to .a g1·c :-. t ext·- r.;:t •sith the hon.. rnom- responr;ibL.. for the- d-._Telopn_;_cnt of the ~tate, 1·, r .1· Da~by a.; to t}r dc·"'il?bi]ity of givin_;- -:he'- :J to ''lY th·· .._· in t.:ddr·g oyer this ,L-. ~\orth rs ~.··:c;! a other parts o£ QncenS­ 1c1ille D..-~·(l t:hrr;e LLih~-a.,.:s, tLev haye taken l:,nC.. T:,c,·c i n, d P 1Jt that if 'YC dc,velop into con~-ld~'l'u6on 'Y~1-•t ~ y, ill bP Tequired for tll;·e n1inc.:: ,'Jmts which m(•;nbers of 111to conhCI'~ r~tJon. h ._,n 1_ cannot see that the Opposition rlL·-ir,, to have dear0rl up, there is ver:.r rnuch 1ain3t the p1 \.1 po~:ition. and one point in particular is. what is the But I ;,_ust arJ.d th; t; thev ,c•.re re ,poncible adual state of the mines? The reports be­ as IVlinistor;, of the Cro"·.-n-- for tlre C~rr,;:ing for'' us arc of a fair age-,ome of them go out of the ur•· ent l.:tilw:t• ,, that mu· t be back to a nd t;Lher di:•+rict'j for it would not hc.vc cut the Government a th0 -r{py ·lop1nent c_~ 0ur hintorL1nd through­ creat dc:l hove had a f'omplete inspection out the St,1te If ihL•re are nut sufficient 1nadc of y;hr le -district, and have bhd loan funds n..-ailable io1 thm:e purposes, then Teporf.S r!'r·)[l_.I'I,'I't fo,' SUbmiS'·iOll to the any blnme in connc ,,[ion \1 ;th thi'' me.tter Hou5e. Had tl>' Go' ernmcnt done that. I nlu_t eE'rtainly rr·-,t on 1hom.... -ls far as I can am -sure thnt, a· the hon. n1embcr for Bur­ see. the eo.wts nf the cump .• ny do not appear nett has saoid, this n1ea·.,ure would have hLtd to bo ;-er'· valuablP. The value-s set down J. much e:vcic-r passar-''· prm·icled the rcporh for the variOUS items are as fol!O\'.S:- were satJsf::,ctory. 'rhe I\.linistcr, in his Cost Chillagoe Rail" a:. llO r i,.-,.formation. The Buildings 1-+.373 :'\Iinict-'r cdmitted hofore the Select Com­ Plant.. tools 30,677 mittee that it ie es,ontial that the mines Machinery 6,717 ehould J--o .vorked in order that the ra ilwav Stocks 28.720 :.nav be a ,<>tLc05;;<. Therefore. th5s HousB Ein"sleigh lll,316 ,.!Jo~Ild be giwn ~h.' fullest information ob­ Other expenditure 9,117 taino•rl from the b--,\ cxnerts rs to the actual e,tate of the mine and the pro~peet they have £1,142,174 nf pro.ducjn{)' snfficiPnt or:' to keep the Mr. FOLEY : All that for £450,000 ! smelter'' going, not for a year, but for a Mr. CORSER: Thu rcporLJ which have considerable nu!Tihcr c;' years. b,)en received •,e. m to indicate that the pro­ The 'I'REASURE:l: The smelters did not close r-osition is Tood busirL ,, ' but I should like to rlo\\11 becau'e o: a shortage of or,J. H•V that if thr Government had secured ihe fuil information requir1'

>ver .that diffic'!lty we have to rf)alise, as the Secretarv for :\Iines. The wire read as Treasurer ::tdmrtt~:d, that there has been an follows,:_ inerea~o in Vi ages of 25 per cent. I am in­ clined io believe it is mar<;, and that ha·' In the event of the Chillago.;: Com­ panv's ,~-nclters l',i:;~umin~Y, opt::rat:ion~ is ·L1 be consid;;red. ·we have also to considei· rl1:1:e rcccsonabl<; cerbinty of suffic1e!'t the incrc·~se in the cost of running i.he rail­ way as a set-off against the greater ativau­ ore suitable for tn,atment being uval~­ tage we have by the wor:dng of the Mount ahle to keep the smelb·rs going, or Is Mulli;:an mine. On that point we ,;hould there an' danger of :he:n again clos­ inp· do\vii in the .'le,tr future through have bad more information, so that we could come to a conclusion as to whether we have in;ufficienc;' of ore supplies? Wl).ich a sufficient eet-6ff in the advantage from the will be the principal ore-producmg Mount Mulligan mine.. mines supplying to Chillagoe s;nelters when theY re~tart? Reply fully by 1\Ir. !1-,0LEY: r\re you in favor;r of increas~ ur«ent tele;:ram. ing the ra' ~? '' iro this wire, ~cfter consulting returns, Mr. SIZER: I am only saying that it is ::~lY rn"':YLory, and l1lr. Phillips, of Len1~ inforiP.ahon \;hich it i·. essential fer the House priere's, I 'replied as f?llo'.,·s :- . 'fhere is not sufficJent ore ava1lable to hasP. If it }c, shown. afb>· allov,'ing for thP or likelv to be developed throu~:hout c1st of runnin."'", that there is suf­ incrca.~ecl rhesf' .(Jietricts to kc c'P Chillar,-oe flcicni: rnar.';fin for it to be ('.trired on as a smelters going ev€~n .for .;-,anlpaigns of pro5.table concern, then the 'rrGa"u·er's ca~e moder:, tc length or tune.· is infinitely stron£Ier than it i ., at present. In all hirnrss, we sh·ould have some informa­ The T2EASLRE~-: I-Ic "\vas re~1lying- on behalf don in rpg-ard tO certain of the.:;e mines. l c'. the Heo·bcrton di,'rict. Head =,Ir. H rs­ have beQn -in the district, but I do not claim burgh''" letter in l'Lply to that. to have the knowledge of the district that hon. members opposite have. At the same ::\lr. SIZEU : He is a Government official, lime there are so many fin:'ings of the S<;lect Comm;t_t.e: the:z v1ewed the dictrict that onQ is inclined to prc,,s for 71 something definite on that point. con,idering th"~ m.,.ttcr in the serrous h~·:ht ~" ueh pos­ how ~.Ir. Bali vas so indefinite. He was more ciblv I view it in. The Select Conunittee, ,definite that it could not he made a succe:,, in their fmdings, state- rather than the other wav~ At e.nv ru!·9, he " That some of the evidence had _no empb.siseJ that it ,i·as' n great ·pecule.­ pr::ctica! bearing on the chief questw~ tion, and this House chould b,, :.s.;m·ed to vcferred to the corr nnttz:e, but part o, the .':"reate•t extent possible before the Go, it was of v•.lue, including the statement vernment, of all people, should enter into a 'Yith regard to the report of Mr. H?r"­ mining speculation. Vile should at k.'lct kno,,,. l<:'v. the Government mspector of mmes the ground ·we ar(l going on, and \VO $hould in' the Chillag.oe district." have CY<'rything cle'lr b<:fore we: make such Thev evidently placrcl a conside--able an_wLmt a venture. The Trea..,urer h;1s imprc'-"d upon of ,¥eight on that report, and there 1s no us that this is a very important matter. It doubt tbat o71e would h.~·ve to pc•y heed to is an important matter, c·nnsidering that such a report {'omin7 fro"'.n a Goyer~ment anrroximately £800,000 are inY,J!ved. official, and_ fro,n a m~:n vrho had s1xte<"1 The TREASURER : VYhere are the £G00, 000? vears.' exnerH.:.nce. , The TREASURER: Did ;:on say he ·waJ ::1ft. SIZER: Take the £476.000 and the £225,000. iJ::,pedor for the ChilL: ~oe district? The TREASURER: That is not involved. Mr. SIZER: In that district. The TREAS1:RER : In the Hcrberton district. . i).h. SIZER : It will be in a few years' tm~. \[,·. SIZER: That is a mere quibble. The TREASURER: This does not take on The TRE.\SuRER : :";' o. that obligation. \1r. SIZER: .As a matter of fact, if _the Government or Under Secretary for 1\fm_cs 1Ir. SIZER: That obli~ation will arise, ":'nntcd information in regard t? t~at dis­ and th<''l W'' hav9 :mothm· £90,00). which trict and this man cuuld not giVe It, why practically me• ns that ", 'l "ill have £800,000 did the U nd·- r Sccrchuy send hin1 to n1ako inYolvod. Therefore i,t is a :::eriou5 1natter. ,,J renort? Anyone will arcree with th,et. I am inclined. H;n. vt. N. GILLIES: Not only him; we t'1 think that it would c>.s,ist the GovRrnment sent others to report. all round to get this information. \Ve have heard many po'nts of the report of the ="Ir. SIZER: We have not .t~e other SPlect Committee quoted, but tbere is one T<'port::, ccnd to my mind the Mm; .. ,ter has point which has not been quoted, but which, opened up m0"t ground fo_r SUSplClOil. r7.c to m:;- mind, should b~ quoted, and it is one hu:; imprf'"·Sed on my mmd much _mo .. e of the points in rer:ard to which I intend to strong·ly the nece.'sity to have fur_the;l' mfor­ ask th0 Treasurer for an explanation, and I mation on this point, bec:mse 1t 1s most am inclined to think that he "·ill agree that peculiar that the Under Secretary should 'end we on this side of the House are entitled to to th;, particular official, and he sends an some information on this particular point. .adverse report, and we are then told that 'The Select Committee's report, page 39, they sent other officials to inspect, but f~"" reads as follows:- somr• rea"on we have not their reporh at all. " [Lettqr from S. Horsley, inspector Under those circmastances one must con;e of mine,, Mareeba, to Jas. Horsburgh, to one of two conclusions-either that he d1d g-eneral manager, Chillagoe Limited, not reply, or that be: replied and the reply Chil!agoe, admitted, reading as fol­ W.'lS not favourable. lows]:- The TREASURER : Who did not reply ? " On the 22nd I received a wire de­ Mr. SIZER: The other inspector ·you sent. manding an urgent reply from the Under The TREASURER : Which other inspector 1 Mr. Sizer.] 336 Chillagoe and Etheridge "[ASSE:.\IBLY.] Railtcays Bill.

:'.Ir. SIZER: I do not know whom vou said that none of the cattle has been sent sent. I 1m referring to the one mentiot1ed travelling on the hoof to Bi1oohra. ~y the 0·\ssistant Minister for Justice. That The TRE.ISURER: I ~-~id from Chillagoe. 1s a pomt that has to be answered bv the GoYermncnt, and it is no use for the ·Trea­ Mr. SIZER: I probably agree with him. sm·· r or any other hon. member opposite to But from information I have. there is also st~te tlut sucp '- led us to me th:::t wo _will have to get all the wate:· believe aho that it W\ls a vory n1aterial ont. There IS no doubt that .ome of tho. • factor. 1nines .are on ilre, and -.,ve- 1vant to know ·-<.nnetbinr; about that. \Ye have the admis­ The TEE\SURER: You don't seem to under­ siOn that they arc on fir0 and the hon. stand how material a factor it is. member for .Burke says the fire ma;; bG put :VIr. SIZER: I do understand how material out. y 110\V 0,\ "\\'ater. \Vo are br>tsveen hvo a factor it L, but, as a n1a~tcr of fact, th:< <'vils-cither lire or "·atcr-and the Hmtfe quantity i3 not so great as it was. I think should kno•c something as to the cost of that we should also haYe had a little more clcarinc; thece mines and making them read:; information in re:;:nd to the Eth0ridce rail­ fo,· or:nng-. The Treanu·er said that it way. Going through the Etheric1ge -returns would east £100,000 afterwards to carrv on I see that from the 5th Februarv to the 30th developmental work and ITCt the mines 1~cadv J uno. according to the Select- Committee'~ for >vorking. \V e want to know \vhat th,it rPport, the emu of £51,862 17s. .fd. was £1CO.OOO is going to cover. and if that will lost. \Vo han: had no information from he all. because I am inclined to think v;c the Treasurer as to the prospEds of the will want mor< than £100,000. I'theridge line beiiig made to pay, apart from the Chillagoe line. I think we are justi­ The TREASURER : A hundred million. fied in asking his idea and opinion of tlw Mr. SIZER: I am afraid as far as Chilla­ prospect of wiping out that loss, which had gco is concerned, that would not frighten the taken place automatically month after month Treasurer. At anv rate I am inclined to during the period I ha.-e mentioned, or if think we ha\:e to go on and get this informa- there is anything fresh which is likely in any tion. The Government mav think way to reverse thosA figurE-> and nnke a [8.30 p.m.] there is no need for it. but )JTOfit. the fact remains that the gentle­ 1'he TREASc:Rfm: \Ye will have to bear that nwn of the Select Committee thoug·ht so lm ·; '\'hether this goes through or not. If ~nd they had the power to override th~ there is any change it must be for the better. Government's opinion. Therefore, it should :VIr. SIZER: I -don't know. I hr:vc heaNl have been tho Government's dutv. and vou that n1any things have changed fron1 good ·.Hm~d have thought it would have bc<'n- in to bad, and from b-.· d to worse. 1 am in­ th ·i1: own intere.-ts, to have got everythin-:; clined to think that if the Chi1lagoe Company, possible to have set their minds at rest in O'"'- the mines, have lost millions of pound:-­ order that. when they presented it again, (Government laughter). I see in this report they \muld have been able to bring such a that the returns they have got for cash 'ales- strong case before the Select Committee that they would have accepted it. and the Bill The TREASURER: That is their turnoYer. would have gone through. That has not been ::V1r. SIZER: It is lost. If vou mahe it done. It has been said that the earth has awi tlwE you put it in again, ~nd then the only been scratched. As the hon. member eoucern is a failure-:von lose it. £~,. Bulimb~ said. it has been a very expen­ The TREASURER: On the same principle that Sive scratchmg. The field has been worked, if you back a horse and you win-- according to the evidence, since the sixties. \V E'll, that is quite a considerable time and ?llr. SIZER: If it ·doe<; not win, the money a con,iderable -amount of money has 'been i ·• not in ;·our pocket; it is a lose-. You ha Ye spent. They have been a good while in the to take it in that way. They have spent the district spending it. I think that is another capital in deYelopment, wages, and so on, very strong cause why we should have more np to about £4.500,000. They had in return information on this point. AlthouiTh I have that which the Government proposes to take mentioned these things, I am not"' going to oYer. with the exception of Mount Mulligan, sa;, that I am opposed to the Government valw•d at £476.000 for Chillagoe and £225.000 going on with this particular line. I am for the Etheridge. I think myself that if cnlv endeavouring to point out some things those p0ople 1vho exploited the field for all which I believe should be cleared up in the it is worth have lost on it, at least it is an minds of t_he publ_ic before this large amount instruction to this House to consider its of money IS sanct1oned. Much has been said past histm~y. That amonnt of money has with regard t~ the prosp:ct of travelling gone, and we have now to take into con­ stock over the lme. There IS no doubt a fair sideration-- amount goes to Biboohra. The Treasurer has The TREAS"CRER : The price of metal. [Mr. 8ize1·. Chillagoe and Etheridge [1 8 Jn-"E.] Railu·cys Bill. 337 r-

:Mr. SIZER: What is the prospect of the this r0port a ·doubt res to the actual value cif Government turning round under these cir­ these properties. The Assistant Minister for cumstances and making it a succc ss'? Justice made a great point of the fact that he answered the queotion of the hon. member Mr. PETERSON: Because the price of copper fm· Dalby. and he rua price of copper will come down. piekt>d ·out, but T believe that a fre,_:l The TREASURER: I did not admit that. I dc,Josit will be· found." am thoroughly convinced it won't. He only be;icves. He admits that all the :\1r. SI7.ER: I think if we read through lcJO\\'!l 1-.!)'~.i haY0 bee1.~_ 11ick<:-,,,-1 out, but he the Treasurer's evidence, he \vas of the h~lit:YcS there n1ight UG son1o lllOl'G found. o;)inion that after the war copper ,, ould Arc wc going to :~unct ·on such a big transac­ conw do•., n to, say, about £90 per ton, and tion on .,al. 'rho hon. The 'TREASURER: That was based upon the i:lf•mber tor Ipe1vich sa;d it ·,.as a terrible .<'YidcJH" be! ore the copper authorities two uime that the Government should ever allow years ago. \Yhat I said thiJ aftBrnoon \Vas priY:..sy::_:::.::a: \Ye .dou't stagnate, as J..Ir. PET:::::aso:·;: Th(•ro i" uo colnpari.;on in you p:.:ovle eo. lJOpulation. Mr. SIZER: \Ye have to base any calcu­ ::\Ir. SI~SER: Tl::.c J'a~hva\ h::tYe brought lations we nru.ke in this di1·ectio:i1 on a high tlJl~ :lOlJH~o.tior.:.. If yon build a railv ay the prinr going to sta.: up long enough ~t onl v .'3hoYI the ah:urdit.v of the rcn1ark·s for tho Uovernment to recoup that ·which is cf tlw-hon, me1nhPr faT Ips-\vich "\Vhen he says l ,jc] ont? If it is going to fall afterwards, it is a crime. The 1'1·casurer knows that if we have to look at it in a Yery different it had been left to a Go,-ernment to develop light. '•;on the ChillagoP district it would not haY<) The 'TREAST:RER: Copper ,,-ill never be cheap been developed tfJ the ':'azno extent as it was again. cJ, ,.,_,iotwd b: tlw Chillagoe Company. The ~<1-111\' hon. n1e1nb~..... r 'Y<..•nt on, although it is :\fr. SIZER: I don't think it will be so not r0levant to tbis rnattcr, to refer to the cheap for a lung time·. If copper staved up Tnanner in which the l'remier made a deal in for li,-c ye:1rs-assurnin:::; tha.t the war lasts England, and rccther applauded the fact that onlv a reasonable time-I doubt Yerv much if he \Yas able to make ,,~:eh a great financial the. Govcc-nnwnt would recoup itscif in fiye •mke. Althow•·h he' ma· haYe saved some years. Jll011f~y, he no ,doubt w0nt behind the back The Tm:AScRER interjected. of the company to the debenture-holders to t1n it, anrl th~ qur,,tion is whether he was Mr. SIZER: That is another one of those wise, for many reasons. V\Te have to dPpend things I am talking about. There are so to a large extent up<:Jn the London money n1any things "in the air" \vhich never co1ne market frr our development to-day, and we -down to earth. ~hell h .,,, ·" depend upon it in the future The TP '\SI-RI.P.: Appar _l~~:y ycu don't v;lle>u n1onc: 1~ ;o.ya.llable, and one of the know all the £nets. Jnain things which we have to do is to keep '!.Ir. SIZER: If it is a fact, and the Trea­ ;.-ood with the peol)lo on the London money surer gin;s it, I will have to take it. We t'1arkc•t. I will quo·ce an extract from a cannot accept it as a fact until the agreement letter from 'Yft·. Clilfora Johnston to one of is signed. 'Cnfortunately, reading throuo-h t 1Je truster,, for the debenture-hol,ders, ::\lr. this evidence, a lot of other people t-hought Hanson. He Baid- it was a fact that an agreement had been " I feel sure that in the circumstances signed long brofore it vvas; and no one was any action by illlO Government in the more surprise-d than the people connected n.ahP..'P of expropnation of the n1ines with this deal when they found it was not a would be resented by the financial world, fact. and probably lead to influential appeals The 'TREASFRER: Do vou know that the to the Dritich and Commonwealth Go­ Federal Government has ju,t concluded a ....;·crnJnents contract for the purchase of all zinc produced "'fhis would ~reate an atn1osphere in in Australia? t!te city unfaYonrablo to Australian ::Yir. SIZER: I was not aware of that. ,;;;e'Curitie'S, 'vhiC'h we. at any rate, as 7 large holders of Australian investments, \\ c are -dealing particularly with copper, .and I do not think anv 1nention was n1ade of would he extremely sorry to see brought zinc to-night tilt the 'Jreasnrer mentioned it. about." · At :my rat~, there is running right through I only mention this p,:,int fOI' this reason: I 1918-Y Jfr. Si:e'l·.j 338 ChilkLyce and Etheridge [ASSEMBLY.]

•vonder whether i!: i, really wise on the part made by rnelnLers on this side of the IIouse-w of the hon. momL0r for Ipswich to claim that I do not think any of them have been m:·de thG amount v;,_, sa.-ed at that time is going in a spirit of cond''mnation of the Govern­ to he beneficial in the lmog run,. if we have­ ncnt'a action so fax. The whole tenor of the and I Binu::rr:)l~~ trust we haye not-lost th~~ ::>pecches frJLl thj,, ,ide hns h~en to solicit confi-dence of the Lon~lon money market. I hrthc;· information. and I thin!' tha-t when '"xpress tJue same pleasure as the hon. mGm­ we are dealing with such a large sum of her for DalLy that the Government luwe money we should h.we evc·ry particle of in­ been ab1e to con1e ·rD a satisfactory under­ ;'•H'i.·Hl..tion po:)3ible, e.''P"'"ially \vhen wE' kno-·N standing with the debenture-holders, and I that the Government cm'template working sincerely hope that no friction exists between th< mines as a State concern. Of all the them. Unfortunately, I am afrai-d if we thin;;-s with which the Govel'!F'1cnt should vn~n7 into that 1Uflt:,::;r very deeply we "\vou.i.d not ir~i"·-:rfere. mining as P State c,Jn.ccrn not do much good. \Vc mi~;ht stir up a lot r'>m1 fir'·~. ThP- hon. me1nbf'r for Cook in ot .ce achnittod thd tho whole thing tage of Qu00nsln.nd, and I think it is better ~\a.; ,l f'peculation ~nd a gamble, :.;nd it was to let --le•'ping -dog-s lie. thn~ elcnh'nt which more Ol' le,,_, took people 'I'be Trm.~SDP.F'""!; Y un arc talking in C)UUn­ into it. There is no doubt that the: gambling C!rum6. spirit is a very importa'lt fa.ctor in regard to mining. Surely vve are not going to Mr. SIZER : I£ I am talking in conun­ .~·.J.nction the Stat·. 's going into a big concern dtvn1s, tho Treasur.)r cuu ;nterpret thern inYolving we do not know how much yet, simply as a gamble. \Ve should not g-o ve.ry \Yell, as he k.1 ...c 1,ys f.ll abC'ut the1n. g .. mbling with the people's mon.ey. \Ve Another matter which has been brought should know '••Jmething- more definite than into the Chillagoe. business is that if the that before we sanction anv menJm·c which late Gon.rnmcnt had advanced £30,000 to might involve th ~ people irl the ~X!Jonditure the c0:npany 'omethiug beneficial would have of a million of money. hapnened. Hon. mclml>"'s oppc;ite are d2- crying th0 lab? G-oyotnn1-2nt. on the one hanr:l The TREASURER: It is a million now. bec:m'c they did not cln tlcat, and the hon member for Burke is decrying them on the Mr. SIZER: I think I a.m very modest othet· hand because thev only gave £16,000 to when I say a million. \Vhen the Go,-ernnent somebody else. Judging by their attitude. get these things working we shall see very I am sure that if th<>y had given £30,000 plainly that we will want more money for on the top of the £16,000 a great outcry this and more money for that. The unex­ won!d have been raise-d. p~;_cted alwa\·s turns up in n1ining, and so you go on, ;,nd it is the man who can keep Mr. RIORD,\N : I neyer complained about going on vvho, as a. rule--- the £16.(00. The TREAS'GUER : Goes on.

Mr. BIZER: The hon. member's attitude 11r. SIZER: Or. like Ma.ca~t·ber, he waits was most peculiar if he was not complaining for h'· turn up. When he dof"'· get his turn about the~ £16,000. It only shows the way up lw is all right, but if he does not-- the Governmeet are going on to try and carry this proposal through, ·when in asking The TnEASURER : He is turned down. for information on '1ig questions they are in­ (Laup-hter.) clined to give us ridiculous things like that. ] think another· point. which was noted L Mr. SIZER: He is turned down and ruined the hon. member for Bulimba, and which ;, ycry quickly. \Ve know that the Govern­ not consistent with the Government's policy, ment can go on a.nd on aad spend mortey. is a met.hod by which they intend to pay fnr They hfive not to pay for it out of th.eir the:;o assets. They arc going to pay in ·deben~ own pocket.. I think that before we san?tiOn tures. That is all right, and I do not this proposition, in vie·w of the experience 5eriously object to it. But only a few days ve hc;.Ye of State enterprieo, we should have ago we were hearino;- abeut taxing the big more information. In spite of the eYidence man and hon. members on this 'ide of the vue have rec_;:11·ding ot~er State enterpri~s, House were pointing out that they wore not dc·,pite the idea of hon. members opposrte hittmg that man tut were hitting the smaller that socialism is going to brim; us the man. Now '' e take up this agreement, and millennium despite the experiments that we find that this £475,000 is exempt from have been ~ade in other parts of th~ world taxation. V. it going into the pocket of the to brirlg this socialism into operation. which big man or of the "mall man? have failed the Government are ~skmg us to sanction the expenditure of a large amount The TREASURER: \V bat intereot? of monev in ordei· that they may go furth(•r into a scheme which, at the prGsent moment, Mr. SIZER : 4~ per cent. they are not making a success. The TREASURER: Less than the rulin;; rate. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member has exhausted the time Mr. SIZER: The Government have forced allowed him by the Standing Orders. them into it and they could have forced them into paying taxation. Hon. mem­ Mr. ELPHINSTO~E (Oxlry): The few bers opposite say they are tBxing the . remarks I have to make on this proposition big man and making a paradise for the are in thG nature of a business criticism of little man. These men are at least wealthv what I consider to be a purely business men, and they are exempt from taxation. matter. It is a proposed development which. In that the Government are not quite con­ in my opinion, deserves the. consideration of sistent. At .any rate, I am inclined to think both sides of the House w1thout any party that the Treasurer should take into con­ passion whatever. sideration the representations which have been HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! [Mr. Sizer. Chilhgue m<£l EtheridJe (18 JUNE.] Raihm1y.s Bill. 339

Mr. ELPHI:l>;STO:c\E: It is proposed to that the peopling of the Far ~orth is a great .('nter into what. to my mind, is a business problem we have to face. And I also see enterprise with very gnat promise in certain that the question of employment in th~ very directions, and I think that those of us who near future is going to be one of Queens­ can awSist the Government in discussion and land's problems, and anyth~ng we can do to criticism should do so. The few remarks I shall meet that problem must wm our sympathy. make are not for the purpo~s of killing time. I have exh~ustr-d whar se••med to me to be but with a view to assisting and thrm~·ing light the favourable side;: to this proposal, but on the proposal from my point of vrew. The mv case would be quite incomplete unless I one complaint on this side of the House is latmched "·hat seemed to me to be thE) out­ us to the qu('stion of haYing more inforination standing criticisms of the Government pro­ regardin'S tlw nature &nd c·xtcnt of those de­ jlOeal. A bu€i!H"S man wants to hear both posih. I look at tlw matter from this point of sides of the que•tion. The Treasurer may view. \Ve are inve'·.ting Qucen;ea surer pornts output of coal as ·will mQke it profitable, :1re out, then, in my or.inion. the enterprise has all considorntion:-: in the case, and d.epend on many admirab],. features in it. (Hear, hear!) the conduct of the smelters. The Treasurer I have tried to look at this question from has not told us vet whether the Government the point of view of the Treasur~;:r, ar,d it intend running t'he smelters as a State enter­ seems to me that lw has very many big prise, or whethe an opportunity of working th" first place, there is no doubt he is buying them. I h"ve pronounced views upon Govern­ this property at a very low price. No man ment enterpri·•es. I contend, and. always have \vith any _h!I3inr,ss experience or brains can eontended-ancl I am g]Qd to see that the <:lntcnd that the prb· ,-,-!rich the Guvern­ Premier hac. admitted the fact recently­ ment propose to give is an exceedingly low that it is the clutv of the Government to one, and I only wish that I had the money govern and not to trade; and it seems to me at my dispo~al and the opportunity. I go that there nre directions in which the Go­ further, and sa,:: that another argument vcrnmc·nt should not enter into trade. I am which the Treasurer has in his favour is 1 not going to 'ay that this smelting enter­ that this line to 2'.1ount ~Iulligan is large y pr:se is or is not one of these directions a 'Yast-e of 1nonev, unless the n1ine is "'\Vorked until we hear further it profitable. duty of tl1e Government to develop enter­ I can s0e the Treaourer arguing in this pr:ists ~,_vhere privet-: companies vdll not go, way-that it .is part of our railway system. then it is the duty of the Government to go and by developing the mine we shall make there and develop those enterprises ; hut part of 011r railway system a profitable whether the90 Chillagoe smelters come under concern. I a1•preciatP a.lso the desire of that cate

'l,lr. ELPHI::\STO::\E: The hon. member Mr. EL PHI::\STO::\E : It is quite true. should know that that is not a State trading The Tmc.\SL"HER : A small loan of ho\'lt enterprise. much? The TREASl:RER: \Yhat about the rail­ Mr. ELPHI::\STO::\E: It is quite true. \Vays? \V" arc asked in this Bill to assist to de.-elop ::\lr. ELPHI::\STO::\E: If the hon. gentle­ the Chillagoe district, and I ask why should man \vished to as>_,ist · 1110 in 1ny argu1nent, a district like :\lount Chalmers bt' allowed he could not haye giYen a better example·. to go dovn1 ·when a Little a~-:,istancc ~iYcn Durinp; the last three years the loss on tfw at the right time would haYo allowed 1t to raihvrcys has been. approximately, £1,000,000 be in cxi··tence at the present time? a vear. If the railw-nys arc to l1e held up as :Mr Pl.TERSOX: The Government made an anL cxan1ple of State enterprise) there b offer,· and you know it. little need for 1110 to sa v a ·wor·d n1oro in The Hmm SECR~T.\TIY: An o!Icr was made. condornnation of St:::to e1ltorprises. The TRE.\ScRER: Do ··on sav that vc'U ;l,lr. ELPHI::\STO::\E: H I y·crc to ·would rather see private C.ntcrpriSc in chaLrge n ttc1npt tu a usv\·r r evcrv inane intf'rj l'ction of the raihvays than th, Governn10nt? that c·n ··Ju:ttt•~ fnnn the ~other side, I ~hould be here et!! nic;ht. ::\1r. ELPH I::\STO::\E: I >vould like to l'.Ir. Pc-rcnso;.;: If :·ou don't know it, why ann. er all the conundrums that are being FD.y it? Jn·opound, d but I cannot ttttend to them all at uncc. Pos.jbly <: t a later stage 1VG n'lay The DEl'C'fY SPEAKER: Order ! Order ! ha;-o un opportunity of dis0ussing the r~il­ :\fr. ELPHI:'\STO:'\E: I \Yonld like to way:.~ at gl'c~tc'r lor.:_gth. I would. a;::k the kncnr \'t,·ho i:-:i :rnakin~j thi.:; .St)Ci?Ch. There rrrt~ Treasurer ii he has given full cons1dcratlon a fc1v n'n1arks th::_t 'r -would rnakc in c1o:: iug. tu thu question o~ the increusccl v;ag,_:s and It sc~rn to n1e tliut there arc four ·• If's" iu shorter hours That will have to be granted? C{'IlllCc"'"it,n with the proposal. Tht.> fir~t ''If" Thl~C aro 1ucrely lmsinc· >> quu;tions \vhich ]s. "If" the expert reports n:garJrng the n1ust be con~idercLl in dealiug \vith a pro~ ll!incral devosit6 arc S''t~.,far.to!~:. Thc:-t position of this sort. I -would also ask fH~ f'CClllS to rne to Le the r _·ux of thL' v.-holc hon. gcntlPinan v,·hctlu~r he is absolutely thing. Thu Treasurer rnr< have t~li'3. infor­ com·inccd that the price o; coppc1· is going; m.-,tion. lf h,• has, I roEtcnd that 1t 1s only to be 111aintaincd at the figure ho has stated·: right that ·,-, u shonld have it also, beea~1sc it In this connection I would remind him that -..vonld enable tu to forn1 a condusrve opnuon. the Secn'tar',7 for }lines, iu n1.aking a pro­ and pc<'Jibl: to support the proposal. The posal rcgard~ng an arsf'nic ~nine in the Stan­ S{~('OIH1 '' 1{ ~' i:·, "lf" the prico of copper rs thorpc di5trict. ":ts not foolish cnouvh to going to runain at the present high level tak0 ti1o 11rc•.ent price of ar~cnic as the basis for n1anv vcars afb.'r the t\ ar ha~ eon1e to of hi, < ;lculation. He took the pre-w,u· an end.' ·The th:rd " If " i '·, " IE " the llriec, and conteEd-cd that he \Ya,"' takin~ nn Go.-Nnm· '1t have given evidence of their ordinarv business precaution. I hold that he ability to manage suC'h an entf>rpri::-,;; if >vas qu!te businr,sslikc in that. contention. If the Govc,·nmcnt contc·nd that the.' can man­ the Treasurer is basing his c,tlculations upon age these srneltcrs in the way they ;vill ha:".e the present p1·ic" of copper, then he is resting trJ be manag0d to make the ontc r)ll'JSC pro!Jt­ upon a very frail ba -is indeed. The next abiP. The• fourth ·· If "--and it i · a .-cry CJlH' ~tion that seE 111S to require consid('.ration important one-is " If" Labour ..-ill frcQ is that of cheap fnel. \Ve are led to belicn-e its~lf from tho p;·c:-cnt charklcs which arc that the 1Iount 11ulligan mine can supplv causing it in the ~orth to '·go do\\"" in cheap fuel, bnt it has not been d~monstrated many directions. \Ye shall want dl1cilmt and that ihe :l\llonnt ::\Iulligan coal "ill make honc1t scr.-ice from tho State employees lf coke. It is not 0Y0ry coal that will make this is to become a State cntcrpri:c, and I coke-. I admit th<'re is ·a saving clanse in that, hope that the Go.-ernment, if they start if the Mount ::Vlulligan mine will not tum developing- these deposits and putting thc,e out good coking coal, we have the Bowen smelters illto operation, will take care to see RiYer coalfickl, which is not very far away, that the who!•• enterprise is not shackled ~y from which good coke can be obtai110d to lacour conditions which will prevent the1r make up any dcficien<"y which may arise in employees from giving full service for the that respect. I should now like to refer to money which is paid to them. an inconsistency which is standing out n Mr. FoLEY: :More slander of labour. Poor mil<>. and that is with regard to the attitude old labour every time ! of the Go\·ernment in connection with the ::\Iount Chalmers minP. I remember that :'vir ELPHIXSTO::\E: It is not slander. only somP fifteen or eighteen months ago tlw \Vo hear the same old phrase from the other :Mount Chalmus :\Tining Company made side everv time-" slander of the working applicution to this Government for a little man." I contend it is a slander on the assistance to permit thPm to continue mining working man to associate him with this " go operations. I would like the Treasur<'r to slow " rrloYclnent, and, until we face the listen to this became certain criticisms hn,·n situation properly and get a prop~r rett:rn lwen launchecl against the hon. member for from labour, we cannot get the service wluch Bulirnba. and it is only fair that we should both sides are other side. The ::\Ionnt Chalmers Com­ there is no " go slow " policy associated pany \\'as sold up fiftePn or Pi&;ht<'cn months '" ith the Labour movement to-day, so long ago for the rca~on that the Government will that position continue. If we face the 'Youlc~ not assi't the ~onmany witb a ""''811 position fairly and squarely, and I think lonn to assist tlwm further to do.-c•lop th~ir when hon. members know me better they mine. will appreciate tbat I have just as much The HmiE SECRET.\RY: That is not true. interest in the employees as they have, when, [Mr. Elphinstone. Chillagce and Etheridge (18 Jmm.] Railways Bill. 341

they appreciate the fact tlutt these elements of expanding .,·ith any possible degree of have to be wiped out of the movem 1:ail" ay if it ca_nnot be used rrt a profit? :\Ir. BAYLEY: I ha.-C' .ncn•r been there. !\ hnt 1s t!1c good of having a Dreadnought and some of thos_,• who are interjecting have 1n the nuddlo of Sahara desert; what is never bpcn there oxccpt with the pick and the good of ha.-ing a Hoc·al Commission to shovel, and tlwy knmY ju-.t rrs much of it as llHJm·e mto the 'Yorkin~ of the railwaYs if a n1ining Yf'ntnre as tho!';e \Yho have nevC'r thPre ~re no raihYa.· s, ;nd "\dutt j' thP good. bee.l thrre and nc.-er heard of mining. If :of havmg State butcher shops when a man thi·. was of Quecndand, and more particn­ of pounds to pnt ·into these " wild-C'at " !ayl~· tlw pcoplc of the Xorth. to open up thP ~ch0n1c~.. if thC' GoYcrnnlP!lt rnado it their ~n1n1ng land" as ~nuch as r)ossible, provided it busincF ~. b~v car0fnl, sympathetic adnlinis­ IS payable. I thmk v. e waut to go vcrv ('ctrc- tration. to attract ea,pital fron1 oycrscas~ \VC faliy in-cued and 1nak0 quit_, ::-ur0 ~of the \Yould fin(l the,"· vrould haYe a far bPtt~r Y\~av her _that ir_ is to be a payable pro- oi cxpa11d.i.ncr ·the <'ountry and opdling uP poe!hon. \I e ha 1·c ncthmg before ns to lead thf' mining flcld-.. But they do not do that. 1 IF . to Joli0.-e . that the mining industry is On ihf' one hand. thev 2re bringing forward s omg to pa v m the future n nv better than Ic<~islation v-f'ek by '~'PPk, n1on£h by n1onth. ir did in the past. \Ye kn01·; perfectly well Oiip. ~rwnt iu 0-x:ploitjng thC>f c rnincs and talk YC'r~7 disnaragi:.1f""l:v about boo•llers and ~:;,nr~.1n;: deYC'lopn1c~nt. and. \Yhut j·. the re·sult? proftt('Cr~ nnd say they c1o not ·want the1n :-IHJ,~ c~nnp:,11}7 • \,··th :~11 1ts nlollc-y, 1..vith all here !n f)uecn·-'o.nd, bnt if the•· endeavoured 1t., ormr:'-. with all t?P Pxpc.rt knowledge it by s_:mpathct:C• lrgi .]ation and rc~ulation had at rte ch,poso.I. H pracllc:tlly bankrupt. to entice c.or:i,al lwr" they would be doing Does the rrn·asurC'r nH:an to tell Uf> as a .-cry nrudr mor<' for Quccn .. Iand than by ~a_rlianiC'nt that if it 1v0re a paying propo­ introdw.. ·in~ such a n1eaSlll'C as ·we have before ~·ltl~)ll that company \Yould not perseyere n-; to-nidrt. It coem .. to me that about thP m rts work" ·would not the capitrrlists from only PI~opc':ition that i.~ going to pay ig acrosB- tho seas bring n1or0 n1onoy hero and being hckl b.· th' prc ,•nt compan~·· and that por·t \·ere ·in thch· undertaking? i- the l'vloant 2\Iulligan mines. \\'e know that The TEE.\Sl"REP : Thev eouk! not o-et ne•·• the coal there i" of g·ood quality, and we Li,·ion from the Brit(.h Governme~rt. , , have reaso!l tu bPiievc• it i" there in great quantity. and this portion of the property is :\rr. BAYLEY: Do thev not know about being rehincd b.- the companv. \Ye take ·the Mount Mullig':n conlfi.eld? Do they not oYer the other 1i1ining- ventures whif'h are know that f'oppcr 1~ a b1g- price ju;-;t as v:ell only of problematical value. and we are n,~ \VC know it; and knowing, as we do, that ]ea.-ing- in tbc hands of the private company .lYiount :\Iulligan coal is good and is there in the Monnt Mulligan coalfields, which we large. quanti~ies~ U!J-d t~at coppC'r is going to cannot do without if the mines and smelters rem>1m a b1g price; mdcfinitely. is it not ar0 to be worked, and which coalfields are Yery apparent to each one of us that bound to he absolutely successful in working. , they would come here with more monev and I do not intend to keep the House waiting tak.e advantage of the natural advantages any longer. ·w~rch are there. The Treasurer has utterlv GoviiR"DIE~T :VIEoiBERS : Hear, hear 1 and f::llled to show us that the mines are capable laughter. Mr. Bayley.] 342 Chillagoe and Etheridge [ASSE~iBLY.] Ra:lwaus Bill.

Mr. BAYLEY: The matter has been dis­ as th0 Trca·, ~rer adtnittcd; tut, if the cussed at considerable lc•ngth, and the views Govc·rnrr1011t bnr these railw,;~·s, that .dol'S of the mcmb·_r·. of the Opposition have been not 111' an thar the population ·will come baek~ placEd bt•fore the Hou-•e in no unmistakable ThL~ Inint h. YC' tr} l:.• opcn0d and worked, way, and whilst om and all arc only too and I an1 fearful that1if the GoYcrnn1€nt tak:' rea,dy to support aFv proposal that is going oyer the n1in,,~-~ and Sll ·1t· rs, they ,,,ill f::1cnd to make Queen• land bdt<·r and wealthi; r. •-t no e:~d uf ~-:.10lH'Y on d-:,- "n nnd '"jJl ha Ye no the san1e tirne each and over,.- one of ns has Ol''?- tu ~L.Jl\It. 'i'~10 ac·:t thing thc:--T \\·ill do made up his mind that we w{l! not allow the \Yill be· to st; .. rt n1iuine:, and ,,.P do nnt kno'v n1oney of Qul~PnslaiFl to be squandered in IYh· re the c•nd of the ti1ing will be. If there ;,_nv wa1· the Liovrrnr:·ent think fit without wen' no 1nin'!.' ·nr ~n1eltPrs a.t t ncbf'd to this an:r cor;trol \YhateYcr. propc irion I ~hould Jik:.' it n1ur·h bctter. VlTP nrc ~"!..": ti i~1n- th<..• raih\avs at a. \Vl't·cker's: ::\Ir. GL'"\::-J ((',ln> rr"on): I do not wish price: rh" material i' worth the money: to tak" up much of the time c·f the House, .tnd ;~ \Ye ,,-c_;_·k thenl t'.:.; railwav.s. they tnay but this is a Y{:TY in1portar:.t 1nattcr that \YO lHUY-. ~ profir._.blt" pr0po"ition. · But ·if ,,:o giYe Ul1on, n.rP: asked to decision and the arc g-oin.?" to open up th0 .·linE's and bring eviJ, 11('(' bcfor u~ Pr~- <..J)nflirt~_ng. \Yhen th1_ Hnr'It-{'t,.; up to date, ~he Ycnturo 111ay bo you rue! the report of the gcvlobist and the a sink for all tin1c The Treg .;urer :.aid report of tlh~ Con1n1issioner for 1-laihvays. you that zinc is one of the minerals that lYe do ll•;t kno1v which wa:· to vote on the ques­ require d the JH'CSi_m time. I haw' in tion. \Ye had a wry able introductory n1v elcctcrah:• at TPxas a 1nine called ''Silver speech by the Treasurer-rhe n1ost instruc­ St~ur" which has hundrf'ds of tons of zinc tive speBch we have had during the whole near the surfaer, and that minE' is languish­ debat•'· The hon. gent!t'man always intro­ ing for want of a raihYa:v which \vould cost duc<>s a Bill in a manner that one can under­ onlv a fev- rhou.,ancls of pounds. Yet the· stand, and I give him credit for that. In Go~·erument can find money to buy a railway this measure we are practically asked to vote costing £475.000. I understand that the dif­ away half a million of tlw people's mom'y. ference ber,recn the two eases is that to· The TRr~Sl'RER: Kot half a million. build the railway I allude to the Government would haYc to iind the monev, while in the Mr. GL'NK: vVell, £476,000, to be pxact. present inlll •cure it will amount to half a the railwa.y with debenture·>, or paper. Mat~:V million before we have done with .the matter. people think that as long as you pay m If I':C buy these railways, I suppose we do paper the dd1t is paid. but that is not the not mtend that the smelters shall be allowed case. IntE'rPst on the monev has to hE' met to lie idle. 'l'hey will be the property of lw our childrf''l or our children's children, the Governmcnt, and they will have to spend Hnd it. will be mounting up ail th<> time, £2,000 or £3.00C at the very least to open Then, these debcntur€'s are free from income those smelt<:>rs. Some of them will be obso­ tax. Our State stations have been bought lete. Then, again, the whole success of the with debentur<'s free from income tax, and' proposal will depend upon the mines. If if we go on buying a'ld pa.0-ing for things in the minPrals are there• when the mines are that wa~-. the consequenc0 "·ill be that aft<'r opened, the proposition will probably be a a time a. !!'reat number of pl'ople will han~ success. I remember that when th~ present im·estnwnts free from income tax, and that Premier sat in opposition. and Bills of this will throw the burdE>n of taxation on those nature were put before the House, he used persons who do not bold GoYernnwnt dd1en­ to say, .. I should like to give an intelligent tures. The Conunissioncr for Railways says vote on this question, but we han• no Royal that it would be a Yerv good thing if the Commission to hold a.n inquiry and report on mines wer.e opened up.· w'hilE> thn geologist the matter; if ('V er I CDme into power, I says he would I>at like to risk his own money >.hall see that we have an indRpendent \Vorks in' the venture. But it appears that it is Comnlif''5ion who will 1nake reports to the all right to ri~.k the people's money in it. Hous0. so that members will understand Here is a letter which appeared in the what they are doing when asked to vote on "Brisbane Courier" on the 20th November matters of this sort." \Yhen the Pr<'mier last- came into power he appointed a Roval Com­ mission, but, unfortunatelv, it was e. poli­ " I was warden of the \Y alsh and tical con1miseion. a.nd it ~costs t1te <'ountrv Tinaroo mineral field, which included about £3,000 a. vear. And vet the Goverri­ Chillago!', for fom years. and I visited !110nt have never sent that' commission to the latter centre once eyery month, and report on this proposition. Thcv have sent it was part of my duty to ob,ern' ~nd the commission to examine son1e proposed report on this portion of th'? the Ho uS<'. Chillagoe Railway a'1d mines !n the ::\fr. For.EY: Th0re arc no 'possums up HousP. he is reported to hn,-e smd that there. tlw Chillagoe district _had not. ~e_en Mr. GU);::\': Probably ther0 are no 'possums scratched m·er. and that Its potentialities up there; 'possums are falling off. and '"o were enormous. It is a pity that there shall soon haye none, as the friends of the was not so:no member in the House that Labour party ar

State that endeavoured to ex;)loit it' field raised before the Select Committee of the n;.or~. thoroughly than ,did fh:~ diref'tGl'S Upper House which inquired into this matter (h tl11S COl11pa..ny. some little tirr,e ago, and they asked for in­ formation upon the mineral prospects of the " In the ::\1ungana mine, about 12 miles fie!d. \Ye muot r<>cognise that, as far as th& ffOl1l th >ir Sl-:!:LlLrs, Ull 0ll0l'•'10US Ul110Ull.'u rmlway 1s concerned, 1t depends on the mines of \York wc~s clone by con1peteat 111anager::;. As pointed out already, we have a Royal T1:-_, rni'10 it·.eif, 1.>,h:ich I oH."n visited, CommissiOn. whoce duty it is to inquire into '' U'3 \-..:,Jj wcrkcd, but \Ya.s a n1c-< ex:­ ,,-ery ~ oposition that exc,·•-ds £5,000 in cost, pens:Yl"· propo ition to h1ndle. TlK·U ands and wl1y han• they not reporte<:! on this of to11~ of Oi'£> '"ere taken out of thP proposition? They could have gone there nti!lC, urrd in the n1inc W·Te H:tilljon:- o~~ and taknce in regard to tlhe re .erves fr~·''· cl tirnber: the ~,nner v;,·, 'lTitic. of ore. I may say that some of the ovidl'nce Enc~rr..10lr· plun~er · ,~.ere (_·rected and +-"!u .... \' · ta.kPn bt'forc the l-ppe1~ I-Iou ,.~.. Select th.: ·worked \voll. but "Xater continued to (_':;,nnlitt:r• \YG~ HlO~t pr(:'judicial. For in­ flo,~-. ..:\. '' cr~e11" in the ?1ine PJ:·actically ~Ir. B~Jl, the r~."ologist, 'n1s asked ·F nucd . cpc·rations. A raihva~- Ln. frmn 1 233)- trw Lllnc t'J th~ ~n1C'lter coay.-· ·eel thP on•. \rhi~·h \nts treat· ·d b-r the \-efv latest " Is there enough copper in sight, or nHtC?hiiH:'l'y, unde.l· the ~skilful nlanaQ.·e­ do you kno·w fro1n your knowledge of n1Ent o.._ en(J uf th0 ha1·dc: ~-\Yorkir!g n~en any official reports, to kPep the machinerv I ha Ye come a~ross (=vir. J ,,:nos :Iors­ or Slnelters going for five or ten yearS burgh). He had t·he full c01&dence of if the Government bought the railways?" his dircdore, who constantlv Yisitcd the The answer was- works. Quite close to the works a silver- 1ead mine was worked by the company, " ::\fo, we have not that information." and numerous other mining properties I think the Xorthern people, to whom this in the district were worked in a svs­ means so 1r.uch, have a just cause for d worth develop­ point. If the proposition is a good one why mg, 1t was giYen a thorough trial. has he not given ns all the information? Mr. " Xo company could have done more Ball was again asked (quPstion 234)- for the district than the Chillagoe Com­ " From your own knowledge, is there pany, but it had to shut down, "·hiC'h is <'!lough copper in sight to keep the much to be regretted, for the directors plant going for five or ten years?" spent an enormous amount of capital in endeavouring to work it at a profit but The answer was- failoo. They were deserving of better " There are no reserves. There is not luck." sufficient ore in sight or blocked out." That letter is signed by F. E. Parkinson, I think before the proposition was brought Maryborough. up again some effort should have been made GOVERNMENT MEMBERS : "\Ve all know him. to place information on that very important (Laughter.) noint before Parliament. This has not OPPOSITION :!\1E::IIBERS : A good man, too. hccn donP. TllE're is one very strong argume-nt in favour of taking ever the rail­ ;:v.Ir. GUN::'\: He was good enough to be wa;-·. U ~-ou look at the map you will warde!l of the field. He was good enough to find that it ;, within 100 miles of Croy­ put !us l.etter in the paper, and sign his don, and when you get to Croydon you get name to 1t. Surely that 1s good enough for to a railway that runs right down to Nor­ us to take some notice of what he manton. and ther<>fore it is obvious that when [9.30 p.m,] sa vs. There is the evidence on the North Coast Railwav is connected with one side, but we have no evidence C'airns, and the small ga'p between Forsayth D!l the other side. We have a Public Works and Croydon is linked up, ''""' will have rail­ Commission costing £3,000 a vear and it is wa;- communication right 'through to the not worth their while to insp~ct a' mine like Gulf. We should look at this proposition this before the . proposal is bruught before from that point of Yiew-that it is extC'nding tlh· House ! I do not know what we al'e to our railway system and putting the ~orth do in a case like this; but, when it. is a itl direct railwaY communication with the question ?f .throwing away or spending nearly Southern system.' If only for that reason I half a m1ll10n of money, I must hesitate. I think the proposition deseryes serious co.n­ hesitate before I spend othm· people's Ir,onev. sideratiml. I do not think the matter has It is the people's money, ancl thev have sent been handle-d as it should have been. For me here to look aft<>r their int--,rests, and instance, one argument hrought forward is r am doubtful that it is to their interests that the rails and rhe fishplates during this that thi·• moJwy should be spent before \YC abnormal crisis woul-d realise the monev. v,-e haYe n1or•_' inforn1ation. I intend to YotP do not want them for that purpose. vV e are a;;-a inst tl1is propo&al until we ha ye more not buying the railway for the 1mrpose of infor.nntion. pulling it up and selling it; we are buying it to work it, and instead of relying on argu­ Mr. SIN A YN:E: : As a ='<01·thern man. I ments of that kind it would ha.-e bcPn much sh:mk~ lil~e to ~ee something done to preYent better if those in charge of the Bill had thiS d1stnct bemg depopulated, and it seems brought forward eYidence that there are to. me that that is very likely to happen. I reserv0s of ore snfficient to "~arrant the ex­ tlunk the GoYernment are to blame. I do p0IH1iturP. I noticf: that during· the debate tnn not think they have done their best to answer opportunity has been taken to "throw 0ff"' ~he natural questions that arise to the people at the labt GoYernmPnt about their attituJe !11 the South when a proposition such as this so fer as the Xorth is concerned. and it has IS put before them. It has been poinh;d out been stated that they would not loan the sum already that yery natura! questions were of £30,000 when they were asked. I would J:lr. Su:rr yne.l 344 Chillag:Je and Ethm·id;;e [ASSE)IBLY.] Railw:1ys Bill. point out that the Denham Government spent Mr. BEBBI:!'\GTON: Those are the facts, £500,000 or £600,000 in building two large and we cannot get away from them. That sug-ar-mills in the North, which had done is a fair argument. We arE! discus~ing the more towards bringing about settlement there question whether we shall buy this railway. than anything this Government has d~:me or is I say it is all very well, provided we have -ever likdv to do so far as \V know perfcc'l:· well th:.t a·· a rule yon mittec fully emplo:;-rd. I am sure that. if have ~o ha,~r; three 1110n to do bvo men's "'~,vork the GoYcrnment h0d roalisorl that that m­ under the Governrnent. That is a rcc:Jgnised p;-inciplc. formation wqu]d have bPen of a convincing na • :u·e. helpful to the Honsq in coming to ~.1r. ! FoLEY: The same old argument a cl '"i·ion. and wonld meet with the approval ::\Ir. BEBBIXGTOX: \Ye cannot get away of thL' n• ,,,le ont.n·t ;)rget. sible, and the money that they pay for their· travcllin:~· •locs not clear the exp<:nGe of :\Ir. G. P. BARNES: I will ·deal with carn·ing- them. If that is the fact. how are that in a moment or two. \Yhat does it y0n 'gornr; to pay on an isolated railway up me+' •r ',Y]wthcr copper is £300 a ton. £500 there? How is the Treasurer making up the deficiency at prc>sent? H<: simply puts it on a ten. or £1.000 a ton, if there is no copper to the farmers in the shape of a land tax. there? The position to-dav is that while these rich The Tm:.ISl'RER : Oh ! \Yho says there is people are travelling in ali the luxury of no copper there? our mail C'ars. the farlnel·s' ives and daughters arc milking in the milking sheds G. P. BARNES: then, ,,-here from •ometimes 5 o'clock in the morning ~1r. "\V~ll, until 7 or 8 o'clock at night. is the evidence that there is copper? I have opened " Hansard" at the debate which took The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order ! place last year, and I find there that [Mr. Swayne. Chi'lagoe, Etc., Railways Bill. [18 Ju:s-E.J AdJOUrnment. 345

:Yir. Fursvth. \vhen a member of this House. arc going to make a succec,s where experi­ referred 'to the report of the manager of encod miners have failed, is foolish. They the mine in 1915. will get plenty of men ready to .. pull their The TREASt:RER : The manager of what legs " and carry on this enterprise-put down mine? a hole here and a hole ther<'. mHl illv<:'stigate in various directions-but, of all the 1\Ir. G. P. B.~R:\TES: The Ohillagoe. enterprises the Government have had in The 'l'REASt:RER : \'Yhat C'hillagoe minE'? hand or proposed this is, perhaps, altogether 1\Ir. G. P. BARNES: The Ohillagoe mine. th<, darkest and the worst and the least The 'l'REASt:RER : There is no mine in the likely to produce good results. district known as " The Ohillagoe." As far as the r'Cilway itself goes, the stand Mr. G. I'. B~\R:\TES: The mine which I take io that thf' railwavs of the counh"": connin5. this very proposal. should bclonf; to the State. I mn not '· ~re The TREASuRER : There is no mine in thQ \\-~12thcr there is a pros1)ect in the n1eantin1e Chillacroc district known as '• The Ohillagoe of ruaking that r.nihYa:- a payablf' proposition Mine.· in itself, but from <1 railway standpoi 1t alone l •lwuJ.c! be inclined to approv-e of it; l\Ir. G. 1'. BARXES: Well, the Chillagoe but if the I louse is going- to pel'n1i t t~1e Company's mine. workin;>.· of tlwce lines under the Gon·rn­ The 'l'R~ASrRER: \Yhat mine is it? There mcnt, then I am decidedly against such a are a num bcr of n1ines. pro pc· al. It i· not cc reasonable thing to 1\Ir. G. I'. B \RXES: H i>i connect<'d with ask the ronntry to support a proposal of t\i~ thi. proposition, and probably is the very nature. Then, again, if the raihvay is not n1inc ~1ieh .it j vour intention to ac;:k Hkcl: to bo a pay.i.ng one. \YC luse to re1nen1- anthJri~.v to \York. " bcr that ,,-e arc g-oing to Raddlc the count·~· The TRE.\St:R;,:R: I don't know what mine "·irh a paynw!lt of £476,000 \Yith 4~ ·per cent. the holl. gentleman is talking about. deJentur( :, and the con"equ('nt hig inte:·cst charge. Then. we are undertaking to £nd "0\Ir. (~. P. BARXES: The last report of the compn11, for 1914. published at Chillagoo another £90,000 to help in the deYolopment of n1inc '· indepPndt·~ltly of what we intend doing on 1St h ~\1 .rch. 1915, gives stat.ments by J\Ir. :3.leDerLlOtt, tlr; gPneral n1anagcr. He ;;:ays- onr·:cf'}YCS. rrhcrc i~. another SlTIUll charg·('-­ what is lJchind this no one can say-but a " ::\c.. 6 kvel.-The west croc·•cut was tru~~ce rrlent:'lncd here i ·· to rPceive £250 <·.:h'nded· 218 feet. ~\t 50 fed from 1wr unnu1n till thl' pa~ 'iu,g of th0 .-\et. ·lnd th0 n1:tin shu.ft it cnte:,cd the "\vestern then £150 till th· pa·.·ment of tlw debenture'<. lode, ;_;,Jld continued in ore for 68 feet. Seeing that tlw Government have not shcnn1 Th" ('l'o~f::cut appears frorn other "\Y0rk­ the-ir al•iEt:v in making Pn-ds 1nee~. \';hy in~s to haYe penetrated this lode diagon­ ;'"onld the1 be authoriser' to incnr fnrthN all~.. Sa··lplcs fron1 5-fc~7t <::cctionJ give fYX:lJ0:J.ditnrC in "wild-cat" ·~.:>ChcnH'~ f.nch as an~·~ Ycragc of 1.6 per < ~n;, copr:c~r. The this? ?\o eviclrnr~ h ,, been forthcoming n1 is b:·sis. At 56 fe··t from the maiu that the or0 is in the district; we arc simply s.1aft 'rivc' wer oncn· d north and south a.4::cd to ~ign a blank c~1cqne to an a1nount iu this ~,yp·:tcrn Jotfe."' v>·hirh \Yill rnulct the country to the extent of TlH~ Tn~'Af:· l nEE: I ·would like to kno\v ·what half a million of moncv at the least, and n:1u•.· it i .... perhaps a mnrh p·c >tcr ,·mn. I O"Yl clec:d0<'!l7 J\Ir G-. P. BAR::\ES: You havo "1Inn­ against ae('epting tb.~ propo·<1.l fron1 a rail­ san.l ~·, hefci.·c ou. I a,<·l qtniiug fron1 ~Ir. \Ya-,- ,;;:t.1.ndpoint. For,yth's speech. of the report o£ ::\Ir. Ou0-:6n~1-That the Bill l;" no~,· rc,acl a ~'-Ll D( ·_ iOtt. the n1a11: gcr. sc-c~ncl tin1C'-~;nt nnd pa: ~0d. The 'l'J.," ·.t·RJ:H: :i.\Ir. ~,{cDcrmott "·as not oi an~.- rninl'. I-Ic is th:> n1rd1agcr Co:.u~n:TTEE. Chill <;oc H _jlwa~.-. TlH' DEPFTY SPEAKER: I eall u;Jon =\Ir. G. P. B ....-\.H:\ES: \V ell, his report, ~Ir. ·S1nitb. thP hon. L1C'~11ber for }:u"'kay. to then. lx .Lb the c·u,w weight. :\1r. Forsyth take th chaic. h giving c'Yid( nee fron1 thD r~·port. ~~Ir. SJJ-;-TH tlwi·•·.lnon tcnk tl E' chair. The Tm:.\~cREE: \Ye h :vo to know 'Yhat Tl12 ,c;wle oi tlw" dauses of the Bill and n1i1h· : c ~1 ar:...' rcflrrjng to before \~·o r .::.,n folJn·\· ,-un. 'Ih0re are tl1ousands of mines the t\1.-o :whcclnlc.s 1-,·crc put and pa:3·<:d '\\-ith­ in the Chillagoe di,trict; not one mine. ont di _, 'u:-,.:-:ion. The House resumed. The TDIPORARY I\lr. (~. 1'. BARXES : The last report of rH.\IR1L\); reperted the Bill withont amend­ the corLp:tlly wo::.·king the 1nine. nwnt. The TREA:Yill be the. second reading· of the the whole of the evidence right through, the Sue<'<·':· ;ion nncl Prol1at<:' Duties Act... Amend­ avcrag·c was 1.9 per cent. :Yiy contention is nwnt Bill, and the Committee stages of th_c;t thi' : It is not in the calcnlation at all if Bill, i£ eonver;icnt; to be followPd be· the there is no copper there ; and it is quite 'econcl r<·:cding of the Popular Initiative and cvid,,nt that there is very little copper there. Rcfer0ndnm Bill. and later on by the sec.;nd So far as \VC' c:1n understand, some n1illions reading of the Valuation of Land Bill. of mon<';~- haYe been CXJWnde-d in that district Ques.tion put and passed. under the highest expert service which could be employed. For the Government to 'fhe House adjourned at five minutes to attempt to come in and imagine that they 10 o'clock p.m. Hon. E. G. ThPorlore.]