Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 1941
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Supply. [19 NoVEMBER.] Question. 1329
WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER, 1941.
Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. E. .J. Hanson, Bmanda) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.
DEATH OF MR. .J. C. WATSON. The TREASURER (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Bremer) (10.31 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I desire to inform the House that I have, on behalf of the Government, despatched a telegram to Mrs. \Yatson expressing the sympathy of the GoYernment in the loss of her husband, .J ames Christian Watson, at one time Prime Minister of Australia. Honourable ~Iembers: Hear, hear!
QUESTION.
lNTRODUC~'ION OF CO-ORDINATION OF EMPLOY MENT FACILITIES BILL. Mr. NICKLIN (MUl-rumba), without notice, asked the Treasurer- '' Will the Acting Premier give an assur ance that after the disposal of Supply, the Bill of which notice has been given by the Secretary for Labour and Industry will be introduced immediately to give hon. mem bers ample opportunity to study its provi sions before its second reading stage~'' The TREASURER (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brem:er) replied- '' I desire to say that the usual courtesy shown to the Opposition will be shown on this occasion also, and the Government will see to it that every opportunity is given for a full, free, and fair discussion on this measure, as they do on every measure brought before this House.'' 1330 Supply. [ ASSEM:BL Y.] Supply.
SUPPLY. which has decided matters such as holiday pay, increased wages, and an increased ton RESUMPTION OF COMMI~'TEE-ESTIMATES nage rate. All those matters have to be FOURTEENTH ALLOTTED DAY. taken into consideration by the Common (Mr. Gair, South Brisbane, in the chair.) wealth Commissioner of Prices before he fixes the price of coal. That was done dur ESTIMATES IN CHIEF, 1941-1942. ing last year in connection with every mine DEPARTMENT OF MINES. in Queensland. CHIEF OFFICE. Mr. Brand: Do you not take into con Debate resumed from 18 November (see sideration the profit mm· gin, too~ p. 1329) on the question- The SECRETARY }'OR MINES: The '' That £21,228 be granted for 'Depart profit margin was virtually nil at most of ment of Mines-Chief Office.' " our coalmines-for some time they have been selling the coal at cost, or even less than The SECRETARY FOR 1\IINES (Hon. cost. The Consolidated mine, adjacent to D. A. G!edson, Ipswich) (10.34 a.m.) : When the Collinsville State mine, was granted the progress was reported yesterday, I was reply same increase in price as the State mine, ing to some questions raised by hon. members and vet we have been able to show the opposite. I dealt with the point raised by favou'i·able position of which I speak, owing the Leader of the Opposition in connection to the excellent co-operation of the men work with the position of the Chillagoe smelters. ing in the mine; the improved position there In addition, I would point out for the infor is solely due to the efforts of the men working mation of that hon. gentleman that we have there. found it necessary to obtain ore as far south The production in the Collinsville State as. Mount Morgan in order to get a smelting coalmine, for 1939-40, was 150,576 tons, and mrxture to keep the smelters operating. last year it increased to 197,454 tons. The position of the State coalmines at the Mr. Nimmo: Due to the war. end of the current year was such that the Opposition, instead of being able to criticise The SECRETARY FOR I\IINES: If the the Government because enormous losses were hon. member for Oxley would get just a little sustained, are complaining because we were bit of the bias out of him and not be narrow able. to. work the mines, especially that at we should get along better. Colhnsv1lle, so efficiently that production Mr. Nimmo: I speak the facts. ?osts were reduced last year, although they mcreased in every other mine in Queensland. Tl1e SECRETARY FOR )liNES: It does not matter on what the hon. gentleman speaks Mr. Nicklin: The price of coal went up, in this Chamber; on every occasion he has a too. very low, mean, political bias. The SECRETARY FOR 1\IINES: That is lUr. Nimmo: Thanks! the position in connection with that mine; it is the only coalmine in Queensland where Tlte SECRETARY FOR I\IINES: He production costs have decreased during the shows the same bias as his bowls. (Laughter.) year. Everyone knows that the State coal As I was proposing to say: it is due solely mines are conducted in competition with to the great co-operation that we have had every other coalmine in Queensland, and from the men at Collinsville that we have the matter of price is decided by the Common been able to produce an increase of 46,878 wealth Commissioner of Prices, who has dealt tons of coal during the past year, and so the with that matter since the war. All items mine could be worked with a lesser overhead affecting costs of any mine in Queensland cost per ton. It is the same in any industry. are submitted to him. For instance, take the manufacture of tweeds JUr. JUaher: Why has the Commissioner and flannels and other materials made in not recognised that principle in regard to woollen mills. As the production increases, the price of butter~ the overhead costs of each article decrease and that has occurred in the Collinsville mine. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: If I were A very fine example of that law is to be to give a dissertation on the price the people found in a statement made by the hon. mem of Queensland pay for their butter, to enable ber for Hamilton a bout his own business the butter-producers to get the square deal affairs. He reduced cost because of the they are getting, I should be out of order. increased quantity of material he produced. If the Department of Agriculture and Stock The average increase in the cost to the Estimates were reopened, we should be able consumer of the coal produced at Collinsville to give the hon. gentleman all the informa was 8d. ::t ton durinc; the last year. Unques tion he requires. tionably, the production costs per ton were JUr. Nimmo: The increased costs should less because of the increase and the efficient be passed on. co-operation of the men and, therefore, we have been able to make a profit, as the The SECRETARY FOR I\IINES: It is not Auditor-General points out. The Opposition a question of passing on anything; it is a complain because we have done so; but, question of increaser1 costs placed upon the had we shown continnow; losses, we should inclnstq by the authority of the Common have been blamed for working these mines wealth Comt of Conciliation and Arbitration, at a loss. Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1331
The same applies to the Styx mine. An mine because of the risk of exploding the hon. member said that it should not be worked, gas there. In most other mines a deputy and so on. Hon. members should make them goes down in the morning with a safety lamp selves acquainted with what is being done, and examines each place to see if there are and, should any hon. member care to do so, I any gases in the mine. If there is none he will give him a permit to go down these mines comes up and reports to the miners, who go to ascertain for himself the conditions under down and are able to work there with open which they are worked and the coal is pro lights, such as carbide lights. In the Styx duced. If the hon. member for Maree, who mine, however, no man is allowed down the made these statemPnts, cares to go alHl see mine unless he has a properly locked and for himself what is being done there, he will tested safety lamp. '!.'here are men there who receive an education. ·without fear of con 1ne trained to test every lamp before it is tradiction I say that the coal produced in the allowed to go clown the mine. Anyone who Styx mine is equal to any other produced in knows anything about mining will agree with Australia. me that working with a naked light is much better and easier than mining under safety )Ir. Luckins: H is very expensive to produce. lamp conditions. The safety lamp is screened with gauze and glass, with the result 'l'he SECRETARY l<'OR 1\'IINES: It is the that the illumination from it is by no means best coal in Queensland. It has the greatest as great as that of a naked light. calorific value of any, and, if the hon. member knew the conditions of working in that mine, Mr. Nimmo: Have you ever tried he would know the reasons for its being installing electric light in this mine~ expensive. The SECRETARY FOR liiNES: That 'l'he Minister for Transport agrees with question brands the hon. member for Oxley me that it is the best coal in Qut>ensland. as an amateur, as one who knows nothing Its value is greater than that of any other whatever about mining. We haYe electric coal we have here, and it is equal to any safety lamps down there. thing in Australia. JUr. "'immo: Have you ever tried the lUr. Luckins: As a steaming coal, El air electric light~ Athol is equal to it. The SECRETARY l'OR ~liNES: Another question signifying ignorance of mining. If The SECRETARY FOR MINES: If the hon. member for Maree knew anything about a mine 1ms lightecl by electricity it would be eoal he would know thut the Dlair Athol coal impossible to tell 1vith an electric lamp what is not to be compared with Styx coal. At the air was like in the mine. The electric Blair Athol there is a large deposit of coal bulh is airtight. The hon. gentleman would of low calorific value. It is a verv fine coal have his men dead before he knew where he for certain purposes-- · was. 'l'he amateur nsks if we cannot work this place with electric light. He would have Mr. Brand: It is a very fine steaming all the men virtuallv dead because he would coal. not have any meani of determining the con dition of the air in the mine. These are 'l'l1e SECRETARY FOR 1\'IINES: It is a some of the questions raised by people who fine coal for certain purposes but the calorific value of Blair Athol is nowhere near as great know nothing about the matter, like the hon. as that of the Rtyx coal. The qnnlity of the member for Maree. coal is by no means as good as the Styx or Mr. Luckins: You are making a mistake any of our other bituminous coals. Blair when you say I know nothing about it. At hol coal is excellent for steaming purposes, but its calorific value nowhere near The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The approaches that of the Styx coal. I can give Styx field has been a difficult one to operate. the actual results so far as values of the There is a private mine at Styx and it has respective coals are conceTned. There is a not hern able to get all the development it needs because of the conditions of the field. demand for Styx coal that we cannot meet. It goes down practically about 1 in 1 and if lUr. Nimmo: How does Styx coal com a fault is struck it comes up 1 in 1. Owing pare 1vith AberdaTe coal~ to the disturbances of the Styx field the operations run a bout all over the place. There The SECRETARY FOR 1\'IINES: Styx is no settled seam. coal is far ahead of the A beTdare coal in calorific value and heating properties. It is The Secretary for Public ""Works: Private the best coal we have. capital will not take the risk. Mr. Brand: It is not much better than Tlte SECRETARY FOR MINES: There Burrum coal. is a private company there, but it is pro ducing very little compared with the State Tile SECRETARY FOR MINES: The mine. \Ve are producing coal of a quality value of Styx coal is about twice that of the Burrum coal. that is absolutely necessary for the carrying on of some of our industries. 'l'he conditions undeT which Styx coal is produced are difficult, in that Styx is vir Mr. Luckins: You can get coal in Central Queensland without going to the tually the only gassy mine we have in the Rtate. The seam gives off firedamp and Styx. can be worked only with safety lamps. No Tile SECRETARY FOR MINES: Here, naked light may be taken down the Styx again, the amateur is speaking. 1332 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
The CHAIR~IAN: Order! The hon. mem 'l'he CHAIR~IAN: Order! If the hon. ber for Maree had :m opportunity yesterday member for Oxley does not obey my call of telling us all he knew about the coal from to order I shall deal with him. the Styx mine or the coal from any other mine. Tlle SECRETARY :!<'OR 1\IINES: Hon. members on the Government side of the The SECRETARY FOR MINES: I Chamber have made a number of helpful would point out to the Committee that we suggestions. The hon. member for Bowen, have an urgent special order from the Mount Morgan Gold Mining Company for Styx coal for instance, advocated the erection of an to enable that company to do its smelting, iron and steel works at Bowen, and thus he although the company has its own coalmine ]Jrompted hon. members of the Opposition to at Baralaba, near Mount Morgan. The coal make nice little speeches on the matter; other from its own mines is not suitable for the wise they would have been lost for something purpose. to say on the vote. JUr. MaJ1er: Do you get a higher price ~Ir. 1\Ialler: The proposal was contained than for ordinary coals~ in my policy speech at the last elections. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Yes, cer I\Ir. Yeates: That is where you got it- tainly, a higher price is there. Our produc from our policy speech. (Government tion costs are set out. The price for Styx laughter.) No. 3 is 20s. 3d., and the production cost at Collinsville is 15s. lld. Tlle SECRETARY FOR ~liNES: Those works 1vould have been erected and would now 1\Ir. lUaher: The buyer is prepared to be producing steel if a delegation headed by pay you more than he pays for other coals~ the chairman of the United Australia Party The SECRETARY FOR 1\IINES: And had not gone to England to prevent the then wants as much of the Styx coal as can be Labour Government in Queensland from get got. ting the loan money that was needed to con struct these important works at Bowen. Even lUr. Brand: Actually, you made a profit if we could get the money to-day, it is not last year~ possible to get the iron and steel, and it The SECRETARY FOR 1\IINES: Yes, in certainly is not possible to get the machinery spite of all the complaints that were made that would be required for purposes of manu a profit was shown, but I do not want to talk facture, because every effort is being made about profits so much as to say something of by the people ordinarily engaged on the pro the work the State is doing by producing a duction of this machinery and steel to meet coal that is necessary to carry on industry. national needs consequent upon the war. The No credit is given to us for this. If the Styx industries of this kind that have been built mine had been worked by a private company up in the South were developed long before and it found that it ran up against these the outbreak of war, when the necessary troubles it would have done what the hon. n,achinery was available. member for Maree recommended the Govern ment to do-close it down and not get the \Ve cannot compare the works at VVhyalla, coal out. We have to consider other factors. for instance, with the works that may be \V e have to consider the necessity of keeping established in Queensland, nor can we com industries goi1;1g, su~h as g:-:swor~s and oth.er pare the conditions that exist at the two works for whiCh this coal IS emmently smt places. It is not wise for us to determine able. Even with the increased costs the our policy upon the basis of what is being quantities produced have enabled us to keep r1one elsewhere. \Ve have splendid opportuni on the right side of the ledger. ties here for the development of the industry, Mr. Maller: Profit does not worry you because we have iron-ore of good quality in abundance that could be produced if thP very much. necessary machinery could be got. If it The SECRETARY :!<'OR MINES: No. were possible to begin the iron and steel Neither I nor the other members of the works and thus help the war effort, I have Government worry so much about profits as no doubt that the Commonwealth Government about our ability to carry on. these . enter and the State Government would have done prises in the interests of the .mdus~nes of everything possible to do it, but at the present the State especially at a time like the time it cannot be done. There is no use in present, ~hen urgent work is required ~n blinking the facts; we cannot get these things behalf of the Commonwealth Government m to-day. Why, it would take years of organi carrying on the war effort. We dee~ it our sation and effort to get the machinery. duty to produce ~he coa~ that is requued for important war 111dustnes. Profits are a lUr. Maher: We have the iron-ore, the secondaq consideration; the interests of the idle man power, and we have an inept men women and children ·Of the country are Government. alw~ys sup'reme. The ex-leader of the The SECRETARY FOR ~fiNES: We Opposition always thinks of profits, and ~~e have the iron-ore, we have the man power, hon. member for Oxley always has the diVI but we have not got the machinery, and dends in his mind, but the Government are there is no possibility of our getting the concerner1 only for the interests of the people plant at the present time. What is the good as a whole. of pulling our legs by making ours.elves Mr. Nimmo interjected. believe that such works can be accomplished Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1333
at the present time, when we know they to be built to Dittmer, the township that has cannot~ been formed as a result of the working of .:lir. Brand: You have not tried. the Kelsey Creek gold deposit. His repre sentations will receive careful consideration, The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Anyone and the department will give all assistance ran sit down in his office and write out a possible. policy speech about what he will do when he gets int? office. That reminds me of a policy The hon. member for Charters Towers speech Issued a few years ago by the then referred to matters connected with the work Leader of the Opposition. He told the people ing of mines on the Charters Towers goldfield, how his party was going to find work for where certain competent miners are now everyone in Queensland, how it was going to engaged in prospecting work. The hon. mem find so much money to find that work and ber said that these were the men best able tow it was going to give the boy a chance. to produce results. That is quite right-I Those promises give us an idea of what hon. think the practical man is the man who should do that work-but geologists and geophysicists memb_ers oppo~ite will clo when they sit down t0 wnte a pohcy speech, but when they were who are technically trained can give very great returned to the Treasury benches what did assistance to the practical man engaged in !hey do~- Their policy speech, together with prospecting work. Its promises, was forgotten during their three That has been proved over and over again. years of office. Yet now they say, ''Oh, yes, A pmctical man is able to clo the actual work, look at what we had in our policy speech and but, in order to be able to correlate strata what we are going to do if we get on the and clo similar work, you need a certain Treasury benches.'' amount of technical training-and our technical officers give the advice that is neces Mr. ]Uaher interjected. sary. No technical officer or geologist can Tile SECRETARY FOR ~liNES: There go out and find these shows by himself. Pre is an old biblical saying of which I should liminary work has to be done-the ground has like to remind hon. members opposite ''By to be opened up and the strata displayed so tl1eir fruits ye 'hall know them.'' ' that the geologist may go ah0acl with his work. His >York can only be clone in con Jrr. ~rahe:r: By your fruits we shall junction with the practical man, whom we know you. can never do without. The geologist is there 'fhe CHAIRlUAN: Order! The hon. to arh~ise and assist, but he cannot take the member for \Vest ::\Ioreton has made several place of the prospector or practical man. That long speeches by way of interjection, although is recognised by the department. up to the present he has not availed himself ~Ir. Sparkes: That applies to everything. of the opportunity of discussing this vote. I hope, therefore, he will desist from inter The SECRETARY l<'OR ~H~ES: It rupting. applies more paTticulaTly to mining, I think, because in most otheT cases the thing to be The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Every investigated is above the ground; but, until member of the G_overnment party realises the the mine is opened up and the stTnta arc dis great advantage It would be to Queensland to played, the geologist has no opportunity of establish an iron and steel works. As the doing his work. The pTactical man prepare~ hon. member for Bm~en very aptly said, no the ground for the geologist, and our geolo country has ever achieved greatness without gists tTavel all over the State and they advise iron, steel, and coal. Those are the things the practical men how to do the work to the that have made countries all over the world best advantage. great. They will make Australia "Teat too. '!'he time will come when it will b~ po~sible The hon. member for Hamilton said he dis to establish those works here, and to use the cussed with the manager of Peters Arctic ore >Ye have in Queensland. When those hopes Delicacy Company Limited, Mr. Christopher are realised, Queensland will come into her sen, the production of oils from our shales in own. The moment the opportunity arrives the Queensland and that Mr. Christophersen said Government will lose no time in establishing he was willing to give us all the information that industry. he could. I am pleased to hear it. 'IV e are glad to nccept any help we can get. The The hon. member for Oxley said that we department will not make any statement should start an iron and steel works but he unless it is borne out hy facts, so that the would not allow the Government to h~ve any public will know the tme position. We are thing to do with it except put in the money boring in various parts of the State, and the if such a works costs £3,000,000 the Govern information we obtain is made available to molt could find £1,000,000 of that sum and anyone who is interested in the production of private enterprise the balance, but private oil. eiJterprise must have control. I suppose that is with the idea of getting dividends. If that ~Ir. Clayton: Will you make a statement is the hon. gentleman's idea, it is not the regarding the quicksilver mine at Kilkivan ~ Government's idea. '\Vhen the Government TI1e SECRETARY FOR MI~ES: The est~blish i:r;on and steel works, they will do Kilkivan mine is producing a certain amount so m the mterests of the State, not in the of m·ercury and it has experienced some interests of those people who desire to get difficulty in connection with its treatment dividends out of everything they clo. methods. Prior to the war 1 happened to go The hon. member for Bowen raised the up to the Kilkivan mine and, after examining question of getting assistance to enable roads it, I gave the management certain advice. 1334 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
I told them that so far as the working of relating to the safety and lives of the men the mine was concerned there was much to working not only in the sewers but in other be desired. They did not seem to be work mining work, he has been met always in every ing it in a proper way and we gave them possible way. That is something which gives helpful advice about sinking on the lode so rise to a feeling of pride in that d5)partment. that they could get down to the ore-body and work it more oconomicallv than thev were. As regards advances and subsidies to Provision was to be made "for the ere(.tion of prospectors, I agree with the Leader of the rotary Tetorts so they would be able to pro Opposition that we should make as nluch as duce meTcury. It is ore of a very low grack. possible available for prospecting-not only f suppose there is approximately only from for gold but for any mineral in which the 1 per cent. to 3 per cent. of mercury in it. department is interested. The retorts are capable of putting through I think most hon. members will agree with only approximately 8 cwt. of ore in the me when I say that goldmines are not dis day, and that quantity is so sn!'all that it is covered by any rule of thumb, and most of virtunlly useless. ~We gave them every pos our best gold strikes in Australia have been sible assistance in prospecting and a quantity accidental. Of course, men like Hargreaves of cinnabar, the ore that produces mer came to Australia and-as one hon. member cury, has been exposed. That ore is nwaiting yesterday quoted him-said, ''There is gold in treatment, but, as the retorts are capable of them thar hills,'' because the BluB Mountains, putting through a small quantity a c1ay only, which he was then gazing upon, appeared to the company has not been able to advam·e. him to be of similar geological formation to It har1 ordered a patent retort from Fram·e, the mountains "of California, but, at the same but war broke out and, of course, there is time, it was the prospectors who discovered ,just no possibility now of getting it. Work has where the lodes were, and I feel that as much to proceed with the company's own make aid as possible should be given to men who shift retort. There is a ready market for have been in the hHlustry and are now past every lb. of mercury produced, and the hard work, in order that they might prospect price has increased from 12s. 6d. a lb. to any areas in whil·h there is a possibility of approximately 25s. Had the company har1 discovering some mineral. the new retort it would be producing a My main purpose in rising was to deal with quantity of mercury now. Any assistance the much-discussed bauxite question and the the department could give to the eompan; aluminium position ns it exists in Australia has always been willingly given. to-dnv. I was interested in the statement made· by the hon. member for Hamilton about )Jr. COPLEY (Kurilpa) (11.12 a.m.): I the Aluminium Company of America. If hon. pay tribute to the Minister for the eapable members arc interested in ascertaining the manner in which he aclministers his depart ramifications of this company they will see ment. He is always courteous and obliging them set out plainly in the ''Reader's to hon. members who seek information of Digest'' of August, 1941. Assist_ant State him. Of course, his years in the industry Attorney-General Arnold, of Amenea, refers specially equip him for the duties of his port to the 'ulmost worlrl·>Yidc octopus grip tlmt folio. Yesterday, we heard him make very this company has on tlw aluminium market, touching references to some of his olc1 col but it is stated that President Roosevelt leagues who had met an untimely death, decided to fight this h·ust and endeavoured t~ and it created a rather profound impression bring it within the a'nti-trust laws of on hon. members; he touched a human note I America in order to break its grip. Alcoa, feel sure hon. members appreciated. It cer as it is known, in order to get outside these tainly showed the character of the man and laws aml so retain its octopus grip on the indicated to us that he has more than a American tra r1e, immediately formed an passing interest in the industry. affiliate company, a Canadian concern, known I was very pleased, on reading in ' 'Smith's as Almninium Limited. ·weekly" of last week, to notice that the I think en•ry hon. member will realise how paper had endeavoured to obtain a eompre important aluminium is at present, and I hensive review of the mining industry of think it is known generally that 90 per cent. Australia and had asked the :\finister con of the total weight of an aeroplane is com cerned in each State to make a stateMent. prised of aluminium. I am sure hon. members will agree thnt the statement of our Secretarv for Mines "·as Hon. members opposite, beea·use of the the outstanding one given to that paper. change of government in the Federal sphere, have suggested that this Government should I pay tribute to the departmental officers. demand or urge that the Federal Government They have taken their cue from the Minister take some action to deal with the bauxit<:> and do their work in a quiet and efficient position here. I appreciate the laudable desires way. Messrs. Staines, Dunne, and Clark, the expressed by the hon. member for Hamilton. administrative officers, are certainly very We should have an Australian outlook, but, at capable and courteous. On the technical side the same time, we should not allow Queensland we have Messrs. Ball and Reid, and we shall to be passed over. I cannot forget that it was go far before finding such capable officers. the :!\Ienzies Government who bought 25,000 The section dealing with the inspection of tons of bauxite recently from the N ethel'lancl sewers is very lucky in having a man such East Indies at £4 10s. a ton and the Secretary as .Tack British to look after the interests for Mines in New South Wales told the people of the men, and he assures me that when he of Australia' at that time that bauxite could has made a proposal to the department have been obtained at Port Kembla for Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1335
£1 a ton. It would seem that the Menzies previous year, and ever so many losses before Government were in sympathy with this com that. I say it is sailing pretty close to the pany that seems to have eontrol of the wind to show a profit of £1,391 on a turnoyer aluminium position. It is estimated that in of £61,000, and I ask the Minister to be Australia there are 20,000,000 tons of this careful in future. There have been too ma'ny bauxite, and, that being so, there does not losses in State enterprises. The accumulated seem to be any justification for importing operating losses at 30 June, 1941, in regard to 25,000 tons from the N etherland East I ndies. Styx No. 3 amount to £47,669. I see that the Such action as this makes one wonder just Railway Department paid 19s. 1d. a ton for how honest and sincere certain politicians are its eoal, and that other customers-and I when they express a desire to see Australian should like to know who they are-paid at the conditions improve and Australian industries rate of £1 Is. a ton. EYidently the Raihyay deYeloped. I hope that the present Labour Department has an adYantage of 1s. llcl. a Gowrnment will not allow a repetition of ton, and this is possibly because the depart such a thing. ment takes coal all the year round. I feel confident that hon. members realise I see that there was a loss on the State that the present Secretary for Mines in coke works of £3,600, and that the accumu Queenslanc1 is doing everything within his lated losses amount to £20,000. The Irvine power to improYe the mining industry of this bank State Treatment \Vorks show a loss State that he will continue to do so, and of £4,381, ancl the accumulated losses amount that l1e will be ably supported by his depart to £92,498, after allowing £20,000 from mental officers and field experts. revenue. I want to know why interest is not charged on money owing to the Treasury. Mr. YEATES (East Toowoomba) (11.20 a.m.) : I had no intention of speaking on Then I come to the Chillagoe State Smelters, which last year made their first this vote. It dragged on all day yesterday profit since 1929, and I suppose that was on and there is eYery prospect of its dragging account of the higher price for copper. It out through to-day, despite the fact that shows nn accumulated loss of £3~o.ono nftcr there are six other departments to be dealt receiving a grant from the Treasury out of with. besides the Trust and Special and Loan tlH- 1vhitewashed relief tax, now known as the Fun<], Estimates. State development tax. A sum of £20,000 The first matter of which I haYe com was handed oyer from the wage-earners to plaint to make concerns the absence of the the Chillagoe State Smelters. There may be some argument in favour of this action, but annual departmental report, but 1 am IYill it is verv easY to tax this man an Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) (11.56 a.m.): on these Estimates for the appointment of a The appropriation required by this depart· psychologist and educational guidance officer. mcnt is always a big one, but it is always When speaking on this vote last year I cheerfully granted by Parliament beeause strongly advocated the establishment of a hon. members realise the impoTtance of educa· vocational guidance bureau on similar lines tion and the work the department is doing. to that which has proved of great valne in I should like to take this opportunity of New South Wales. No doubt, this psychologist saying how much I appreciate the courte9y and educational guidance officer will more or that has always been extended to me by the less act along the lines of that vocational officers of the department concerning matters guidance bureau, the results of which have I have refened to them. Thel'e is no doubt been truly remarkable. Over 90 per cent. of that they are giving very efficient service in the pupils who submitted themselves to the their Tespective branches. tests set by the bureau and placed in posi The annual report of the Director of Edu tions were successful, whereas 7 5 per cent. cation is a particularly fine onp on this occa of those pupils who would not submit to its sion-in fact, I think the best annnnl report test were proved failures in the work they ever submitted to Parliament by the ndminis undertook. Many of the employing firms in trative head of the department. It coveTs New South Wales make it a condition in all aspects of education. There is one matter selecting new members for their staff that of concern to everyone that should be they be first tested by the vocational training· mentioned-that is, the fact that tlw net bureau in order to find out for what branch enrolment of pupils in State schools has of industry they are best suited. I take it shown a slight decline. The population of the that the appointment of this educational State has increased and the decline in the guidance officer will lead. t~ increa~~d. acti~i net enrolment may be accountel1 for by the ties, so that eventually similar fac_Ihbes '_Vlll closure of a number of small country schools be available to employers of pupils leavmg because the minimum attendance could not our State schools as there are New South he maintained, or it may be thnt while the Wales. population is increasing there is n greater If some assistance can be given to our percentage of old people than hitherto, children on reaching primary school-leaving because the families are not as big now as age as to what vocation they should follow, they were in yeaTs gone by. HoweveT, it is it will lead to the more effective use of the the duty of the State to give the best possible educational system that the State h:;s education to the childTen who attend the provided at considerable expense. There IS State schools. no doubt that in the past we have placed The geneTal aim of education should be to too many of our boys and girls in vocations develop physical and mental capacity to the for which they are not suited. If we have utmost. We must keep in mind the inter some method such as this, of advising parents Telation of education, health, and sociology. in order that they can persuade their children Improvenfent of powers of mind and body an The Director of Education mentions this these schemes on the head, so to speak. matter in his report, on page 8 of which he There are a num'ber of districts where assist says- ance such as this would be of great advan· '' The good work performed by the tage, and I trust the department will not teachers in this direction impelled the overlook this very important matter. Now Queen,sland Education Officler, R.A.A.F., is the time to be making the necessary inves· to make the following statement to the tigations and planning so that when condi Queensland Teachers' Union:- tions are again normal the system can be put into operation immediately. It. will 'I think you may be rightly termed take much time to make the necessary mves the ''Silent Service.'' When I say tigations, collect data, and arrange suitable ''Silent Service,'' I mean just exactly routes. There should be no waiting till the that, for it will be a surprise to many of war ends, as that would delay the putting you present to realise that, outside our into operation of this excellent system and large centres of instruction to reservists make the children wait for the extra benefits -the high schools-there are at least 200 of education at a central school-vocational teachers in small country schools whose training, and so on-the facilities for which efforts, calculated on a money basis, are are not possible in the one- or two-teacher worth £300 a week to the war effort.' '' schools scattered about a district. That is a fine tribute by the R.A.A.F. to the I pay tribute to the section of the depart untiring and unselfish work of the teachers ment that deals with the project clubs now of this State. working in the various schools. They pro In addition to that, I notice that the vide a very useful and valuable form of children attending our State schools have instruction, particularly in country areas, made valuable contributions to various where they include poultry, calf, grass, and patriotic funds by direct donation and the reforestation clubs. These subjects are of manufacture of products that have been sold value to the State and of particular value for the benefit of patriotic funds, to say to the children attending the primary schools nothing of the many concerts conducted b~· in the country. The m·ethod of conducting them which have been responsible for bringing these clubs under which the pupils them· in hundreds of pounds for patriotic funds. selves have' to fill the official positions in the club gives them confidence and teaches Many new methods of education are being them ho~ to be useful citizens. It enables introduced into our State schools. I refer them on leaving school to step almost to the use of the sound film, the radio, and straight into the various associations ac!ivo the excellent circulating library that the in their districts. The officers responsible department has established to provide suitable for this work show a considerable amount reading matter for the various schools in the of enthusiasm and initiative. They do not State. There is no doubt the introduction observe any union hours in carrying out this of the radio, in particular those very interest \\·ork and· often thcv have to travel long ing talks that are a feature of the radio dista~10es but so lDl{g as the children are programmes, and the use of the sound films interested, they cheerfully carry 01; and give in the schools have been of great value and whatever aid they can to the varwus clubs. are increasing the efficiency of our educa I trust that the work will be extended aN tional system. much as possible. I think it covers most I\Iany school committees have clone a great schools now but an•· extension of tl1e scheme rleal towards providing such services for where that 'is possible will be of value. their sehools, and the efforts of the gentle 'faking the activities of the department men concerne<'l are to be commended. Thev as a whole, I think all the officers concerned arc hardworking, and often without their are to be commende Amendment Bill, but, in my opinion, no time and in the hardships of life. Power exercised is wasted that is spent in considering the well for the betterment of mankind is indeed, important subject of education. It is because in my opinion, one of the greatest gifts any of that opinion that I have spent consider· man can have. able time in trying to bring before the At 12.22 p.m., Minister my ideas on the subject, ideas that I hope to put into operation when my own Mr. DECKER (Sandgate), one of the panel family grow up. of Temporary Chairmen, relieved the Chairman in the chair. There can be no doubt that when this war is over a new order will come into being. Jir. PIE: It is my view that the three :Many of us are fed up with hearing of the chief grounds for compulsory universal new order, but I do think that a new order education are- will come into operation, an order of revised class relationship, under which each class 1. The right of every man to the com will appreciate the other's difficulties. It is pletest education the nation can give him my firm opinion that no new order can be on his own account; successful unleRs the whole of the people 2. The right of his fellow-citizens to have have the opportunity to beconl'e educated. him educated as neaessary to their enjoy People must be made to realise that sacrifices ment of his society; and have to be made for others, that we must not have any unemployment, and the only 3. The right of the unbom to be guar- \Ya:V by which we can hope to overcome anteed an intelligent and refined parentage. unemployment is to educate our people so The last of those grounds appears to me to that they may be adapted to every trade be the most important. I feel that it should that is operating in Australia. be the aim of every parent in this community There is enough in this world for every to endeavour to give his children the oppor one. The problem is how to get the best tunity of reaching a: higher standard in life benefit of what there is to all the people. I and obtaining a higher education and perhaps realise that neither the Minister nor this Par a better character than his or her own. In liament can bring about this change, but, in r1oing this he and she would be doing a job my opinion, education along the right lines, worthy of any man or 1voman. education for all people, is the only thing It is interesting to know that our great that can prevent disaster after the war. To leader, ::\Ir. Winston Churchill, made a very put it in another way, education can make importnnt statement on this subject when he this vYnr ·worth ·winning. Therefore, vve aTe visited his old school, Harrow, where he wore bound to give serious thought and planning the ''old school tie.'' He said- to both post-war and present educational systems. " Herr Hitler, in one of his recent discourses ... declared that the :fight was It has been stated by a reliable authority between those who had been through the that manhood, not scholarship, should be the Adolf Hitler school and those wh-o had first aim of education, and I heartily agree. been at Eton. It is essential that m'anhood and character, ''Hitler had forgotten Harrow, and he defined as I define it---'energy, initiatiw, had overlooked the va'st majority of the determination, loyalt7, and personality-be vouth of this country who have never had directed by education. the privilege of attending such schools .... In my opinion, all these factors a're neces ''·when this wa'r is won .... it must be sary, and to me educa'tion is of little value one of our aims to work to establish a without manhood and character. state of society where the ad\·antages and In analysing my thoughts on this subject privileo,es which hitherto have been enjoyed it has become clear to me that some children only b"y a' few shall be far more widely are more talented than others and that, there shared by the men and the youth of this fore,. we must have different methods whereby nation as a \Vhole.'' the talented children may rereive a different In analysing the latter part of that state type of education from the avemge. I, there ment, it appears to me that Mr. \Vinston fore, suggest that in looking far ahead, beyond Churchill, on whom we are so depenr1ent, the university, thes-e brilliant and better realise-< that the future of our nation depemls equipped children should have special classes on giving all people the opportunity of or schools, should be segregated and perhaps sharing all the priYileges a'nd advantages of become a State responsibility from an educa society. But it must be admitted that ~hose tional point of view. They should he made privileges and advantages cannot be enJoyect to realise that the greater their education the by all people to the full unle~s they are more responsibility they must assume towards sufficiently educated and trained to be able themselves, the State, and mankinrl as a to enjoy them. whole. If democracy is to survive it will be because It is my considered opinion that a happy the democratic countries of the world realise home life is perhaps one of the greatest gifts that they must provide, and provide abun any man can have, and the nearest gift to dantly, for the Bducation of their people. It this is power, power in most ca'ses brought is my opinion that in the new world it will ~ot about by education in school, in the university, be possible to regard young persons as bemg 1941-2 y 1342 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. equipped for a happy and useful living in education. The l'\ational Education Co-ordina the new environment that will be created, tion and the University of Queensland Acts where people will think more than ever, unless Amendment Bill make ample provision for they have the equivalent of a secondary school that alteration in our present system. education. A new environment will be created and a higher standard of education will be I now come to 'vhat, in my opinion, is a required of everybody to enable the people very important subject-that is, waste in to grapple intelligently with all the problems erlucation. There is too much waste in educa that will arise after the world conflict is over. tion. Vi' e cannot afford to countenance waste in anything to-day, particularly if this State I am one of those who believe that second is to pay. Therefore, it is obvious to me that ary and university education shoul If this State is to develop in secondary :Mr. YEATES (East Toowoomba) (12.38 industry-and I am one who believes it can p_m,): This department, which was inagur be so developed-it 's essential that the techni ated by the late Sir Charles Lilley and other cal schools get a greater share of the intelli pioneers and carried on by the various Govern gent pupils from the primary schools. To-day, ments since then, is going ahead quite well. many of these pupils are imbued with the idea of going to the University. There is There are 1,711 schools in existence, as probably a greater opening in secondary indus against 1,709 three years ago, which means try if it is developed, than even in the Univer we are progressing even though that progress sity. Therefore, I hope that some system is Yery slow. Of course, the increase in our will be introduced whereby pupils will be population is slow enough, but that is not guided along the right lines as to their voca the fault of the Government. tions. According to the report, it appeared to At present there does not appear to be a me that the instructors had increased by 1,101, proper system of guidance for pupils and but I checked up the figures and I found parents in the period between primary and that the Printing Office or the clerical branch secondary education. Technical schools not of the department made a mistake, and the here particularly, but in other States, 'have number of extra teachers is 101, and not been known to be overcrowded, sometimes with l,J 01. the wrong type of pupil. Here, again, the I hope the ::VUnister will not allow any of question of waste comes in because we are the little schools in the wilderness to be closed. training children who are not fitted for tech I am not charging him with having done so nical training. in the past-in fact, I believe he is very sympathetic on that point-but I want to Th~re is one question in particular I wish to brrng before the notice of the Committee impress upon him more and more the neces that is, the question of music in schools. I sity of keeping them going. I refer to little have a great regard for music; I think it has schools like the one at a place called Goranba, a very good effect on the feelings and charac near Tara, or at Jundah, or away out beyond ters of the children, but I was reliably Augathella, on the Wan·ego, or outside Goon informed that very little attention is given diwindi, in the brigalow country, and other to music in schools. places like these. Let us keep them open at all costs until we settle down again to The Secretary for Public Instruction: better things. Even if the attendance is only That information was not very reliable. eight or nine, let us keep them open. We should look after the ·people in the outback Mr. PIE: I am glad of that. I should like the Minister to state the real position, the children in the wildemess. so that I can tell my informant. I brought As to the need for making our children the matter up because my informant impressed physically fit, I am hoping that a milk supply me by what he said; and if the Minister can will be made available to the children-not prove to me he is wrong I shall be glad to free, exactly, but by way of subsidy. The tell him so. I feel that more attention should Darling Downs Co-opemtive Dairying Com be given to that matter, and I am hopeful pany is willing to supply children attending that the Minister will be able to tell me what all the schools in Toowoomba and suburbs is being done. with half a pint of pasteurised milk daily at The question of examinations requires con ld., delivered at Drayton, R.angeview, Middle sideration- I do not know whether the Ridg<>, North, East, and South Toowoomba :\finister has seen a 1·eport of the national schools. That is a very fin0 offer. It amounts talk by Professor Eric Ashby on education, to 6d. a week a child, payable on a Monday but I was impressed by it.. Mr_ Ash by put morning through the teacher, and the milk up a very strong case for h1s contention that would be pasteurised and, therefore, free from the examination system was entirely wrong. tubercular and other microbes. I have been I have not the time to go through his state wondering how children who may not be able ment just now, but if the Minister is inter to afford the 6d. a week would fare, but I ested I should be pleased to lend him my do not think there are many of them in the ropy of Mr. Ash by's remarks. I feel that Toowoomba area. The Minister should think a ease has been made out for a reform and owr the matter of granting a small subsidy a method found whereby the evils of the when a milk factory is willing to do such a examination system could be overcome. I splendid work. know there are many people who have not Project clubs are to be warmly commended very good memories in their youth, and, after for the great work they are doing. I was very all, much of the present examination system pleased to read of the idea of introducing is based on memory. a system of studying the psychology of The Treasurer: Not very much. children. That is splendid. I had thought of it often and haYe mentioned such a thing in Mr. PIE. Professor Ashby is of that this Chamber previously. As an illustration, opinion, and while I was at school-which take the case of the boy of 14 who is told by is a long time ago-I was of that opinion, too. his parents, "Here's a job for you. Go and I feel there is something in what Professor mend boots at the bootmaker 's.'' Th-o Ashby says. youngster is hammering away at boots, but all I have nothing but commendation for the the time his thoughts are on some other thing. department; and I hope it will continue its That boy might make a good mechanic, elec· good work. trician, or Prime Minister. The idea of 1344 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. appointing a person to study the psychology The report is an extensive one and contains of the children is excellent, and I hope the much information. The Leader of the Oppo Minister will push on with it. I will not sition said this morning that we should do begrudge him the little extra money he may all we possibly can for the education of our need for that. children. On looking back to the year 1930, I find that at the time when his Government The teachers generally are to be highly were in control of the State they reduced the commended. They are a fine lot of men and number of scholarships to 890, whereas last women. When youngsters are preparing for year, under Labour's policy, over 5,000 an examination many of these teachers will scholarships were awarded to our children. come back at night on their own initiative and If the Leader of the Opposition is sincere help small groups of children to get through why did he not protest against this reduction their examination. My fi·ve sons went through in the number of scholarships by his Govern State schools, and I am very proud of it. I hope they will never forget to say that they ment~ began their education in the State school at JUr. Yeates: It is a pity you people were North Toowoomba. I feel that they always not the Government at that time. will do that. My boys, I think, were very successful. At times we read of a person ::.iir. POWER: As empty vessels make who has attained great success in life; that most noise, I advise the hon. member to keep he is an F.R.C.S. or this, that, and the other quiet. I repeat that in 1930 only 890 scholar has ever so many letters after his name-and ships were awarded as against over 5,000 last year by the Labour Govemment, which proves that he was educated at such and such a that the Labour Party is emphatic of the grammar school in Melbourne, Toowoomba, or somewhere else, but there is often never a belief that every possible facility should be provided for the education of our children. word about the State school he attended. I want that to be mentioned. When dealing with industrial. scholarships the Leader of the Opposition referred to the JUr. Jones: Very sound. fact that to-day we are short of skilled lUr. YEATES: It is a fine thing to artisans because our children are not being acknowledge the place where he got the taught in these trades. Again I remind him splendid groundw01·k of his education-and that he was a supporter of the Government that can be got in our State schools to-day. who allmyed only one apprentice to be appren It is unsurpassed almost anywhere in the ticed during their term of office, and that is world, which is saying a great deal. the basic reason for the present shortage of skilled artisans. The Secretary for Public Instruction: You have made a very important point there. I did not hear any complaint being made The State does not receive kudos for the work by the Leader of the Opposition during the that it does. time he was a supporter of the Government who brought this drastic state of affairs into lUr. YEATES: Exactly. I feel that the being in Queensland. State does not receive the kudos to which it is justly entitled. I have found that when We also find that in 1930 there were 399 the education of the successful people in life project clubs tluoughout the State and in i,.; described, 8 out of 10 make no men 1940 there were 522. Hon. members of the tion of the State-school grounding they have Opposition have been suggesting that we give received, and I cannot understand the reason greater consideration to the establishment of for it. To me it is ridiculous that our project clubs, but I must say that during the so-called society should adopt that attitude. time they were in control very little was done. There has been a great increa'se in this work I suggest that our children should be as a result of the facilities provided by the trained in leadership-trained to he leaders Gm·ernment. of society, leaders of thought, and leaders in the various industries and trades. The Department of Public Instruction has At 12.46 p.m., not neglected any of the phases of education through the correspondence classes, and it The CHAIRMAN resumed the chair. makes provision for the education of the children of the State no matter where they lUr. POWER (Baroona) (12.46) p.m.) : may be. I am pleased to note that reference '!'hat the Go\ ernment realise the importance has been made in the report to the fact of education is proved by the amount of this provision has been made for many years money they have expended on this work ovBr that education is being given to children in the years. I find from a perusal of last hospitals, crippled children's homes, and other year's report that, excluding expenditure on places. It has been the desire of the Govern buildings, furniture, and other apparatus ment to see that nothing is done to retard the required for Bducation, £1,781,581 was spent progress of those children. Provision has also on educating our children. Although we been made for the unfortunate infants who, received no direct revenue return from that as a result of infirmities, are unable to expenditure, we are, by providing facilities attend the ordinary schools. They are receiv for the education of our children and equip ing their education in hospitals and will not ping them to take their places in industry in lose anything by the system now in operation. later years, doing a national work in that we are providing all that is required to make Much valuable work has been done in our children worthy future citizens of Queens training children suffering from defective land. speech. We have a number of opportunity Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1345 schools-there is one in mv electorate-where electorate will lJe amalgamated so that one of excellent work is being ~anicd out bv the them >vill no longer be adjacent to both a teachers. This work is lJy no means "easy; railway and a tramlinc. it requires a man or woman possessing a temperament that enables him or her to deal Mr. lHLLIAlUS (Port Curt:is) (2.15 with these children. I do not believe in p.m.): This vote naturally can lJe regarded as scratching somebody's back or booming a one of the most important to be discussed person up for his work, but I feel that we in this Committee each year. As a matter of should give credit to those who do this fact, to me it is becoming increasingly excellent work. important as the years go on, because of the The hon. member for Hamilton referred to changing times and ever-changing require the fact that very little >vas being done in ments of our educational system generally. regard to music training in our State schools, It is not my intention to discuss the subject but I >vas gla'd to hear the Minister say that of education and the department in anything he had been misinformed. In some of m'r but a more or less general way. With that schools we have excellent choirs. The Milton object in view, I have during the recess taken State School, under the able conductorship of the opportunity to make a few notes so that Mr. Yorston, has a very fine choir and has I may be able to deal with the vote won several competitions at eisteddfods. concisely. Like others, I often ask myself: what is ~Ir. Jl[aher: The Curlew choir? this department, what should be its future I\Ir. POWER: I am speaking of the policy in education, and what should the State school choir. 'fhere is an excellent schools and the teachers of the future be 1 music teacher at the Petrie Terrace boys' I just as often ask myself: what shall be the school. If the hon. memlJer for Hamilton had central idea of our children's eilucafion in attended tbe City Hall when the State schools times such as these, and what grievances or ga've a concert recently he would have hall weaknesses in education are revealed by the a night's fine entertainment. changing world conditions~ Those are thoughts that enter most people's mind to-day, The report also makes mention of th•c particularly the mind of the Minister, the number of memlJers of the teaching staff who are playing their part in the ·war anc1 states Director-General of Education, the school inspectors, nnd our teachers; they centre that 110 members have joined the A.I.P. and round the question whether we are doing ail 151 ha\'e been called up for full time military we should do. I believe in this State and duties. The chilllren have done much valuable >Ya·r work and £750 worth of clothing has been in the Commonwealth of Australia we have a sent overseas, the money for which was svstem of education of which we should be proud. Therefore, I feel there is no eolleeted by the children attending our schools. j~1stly They are deserving of the highest commen fear for the future. dation and it is pleasing to know that the In the department generally I see on the children arc displaying an interest in the >YOrk one hand a wonderfully well-oiled piece of at a time when it is the duty of eYeryone to machinery, from the Minister ancl Director do l1is bit. General right down to the youngest and smallest of our teachers in the Teachers' Last vear when the Estimates were under 'rmining College, an cl on the other hand, a consideration the Minister was asked what fine lJody of inspectors, who without excep provision he could make for the training of tion do a very good job, very often under men to engage in the manufacture of muni extremely difficult conditions. tions. If my memory serves me I think that a committee set up by the anti-Labour One sees a continuous urge forced on the Federal Government to inYestigate the matter department by the ever-changing world in reported on its return to the South that which we live. One's thoughts naturally provision could be made in Queensland for the gravitate along these channels-what exactly training of only 11 persons in the manufacture is meant by instruction, and what is meant by of munitions. However, the :\finister made an education~ To me, the two terms are comple investigation for himself and a's a result 19~ mentary, one liYing for the other, as it !Vere, persons have been fully trained in the manu and having similar functions and mutual facture of mnnitions, many more are being relationships, even though in some respects trained, and about 250 persons are waiting to their aims may be different. Instruction may be trained. That goes to show that the not always be educational, whereas education department has done excellent work in the at most times presupposes instruction. There training of workers in munition making. were times when, as a teaclwr, I ignored departmental rules and regulations. The time Another important bra'nch of the clepart, may come when I may be compelled to re-enter ment is the JuYenile Employment Bureau, thci service of the department, and I hope that which last year found employment for 22,294 my candour will not be used against me-but boys. On numerous occasions I have referred even though I departed from orthodox youths who were seeking employment to the methods, I think my results were good, and bureau ancl the officers have been able to find my reports were equally good. them >York. Some hon. members, including yourself, In conclusion, I want to congratulate the Mr. Chairman, probably have heard of Naomi department on all it has done, and I sincerely Jacob, an American, who, before going on the hope the time is not far distant when the stage and before becoming an authoress, was Petrie Terrace boys' an cl girls' schools in my a teacher. In her book of reminiscences 1346 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. called ''Me,'' she tells the following delight Parliament and the Press, the combined ful story of her tenching days:- schools can and should be called upon and be encouraged to play their part in it. In ' 'I became, as a matter of fact, a very my opinion, the first stage of the present con good teacher. My methods were uncon flict was undoubtedly the period of the last ventional but successful. I never bothered war-1914-18. The problem of most people whether the children sat upright or will be to adjust themselves and provide them lounged, the only thing that mattered was selves with a plan that will lead to a that they should be comfortable and co-ordination of work. I think there is no interested. To interest them was my busi better place in which to start preparing ness, and I realised it. When the inspectors plans and laying the foundation for came, I refused to become white and shak co-ordination in the future than the schools ing befoTe some elderly gentleman who of any country, particularly the schools of pTobably knew less about the job than I did. this country. One dear old fellow asked, in tones of icy disapproval, if my children could not The process of producing thoughtful people Tepeat the rivers of England, beginning is another purpose of education anu I have 'Tweed, Tyne, something oT other (which always been very much interested in buHil I have forgotten), Trent,' and ending with ing a race of intelligent peoplP, commencing the Thames. I replied, 'They are, thank at the primary school. The children in our goodness, quite unable to repeat anything schools should be taught to think and to in lists. I don't like lists, it's a very lazy reason, and to make the utmost use of the iYay of teaching.' He stared for a moment, mental faculties with which they have been then said, 'Good gracious, I believe you 're endowed. The recently passed National right.' '' Co-ordination and tho University of Queens land Acts An1endment Bill had this for its "\Ve find that in many of our State schools principal objective, as you know, Mr. Chair quite good teacheTs have more OT less adopted man, and for that reason it is to be wel the method outlined by Naomi Jacob, and comed. I was very pleased to read the I am happy to say that I have come in con remarks of Brother Tierney, of Nudgee Col tact with those teachers and inspectors who lege, at the week-end, approving in the main have visited their schools, and although they of this excellent Bill. departed fTom the oTthodox they have done what was requiTed of them and proved to be What I should like to ask of the Educa as good teachers as if they had not done so. tion Departments of this country and of the parents of the children who attend the school I, like otheT hon. members of the Committee, is, that they see to it that each child is have oveT a period of years met a number of allowed to progress as far with his or her teachers and I have discussed with them and education as is possible by thinking for him school inspectors, whenever the opportunity self or herself, as a necessary part of our presented itself, the basis of school activities social world of the future. If we can do and the methods of teaching to-day. I found that, we shall have gone a long way towards as a result of visiting schools and having solving many of the problems with which conversations with the inspectors from time we are at present faced, or with which we to time that the discipline of teachers is such shall be faced in the very near future. The that it secures for the children good working older generation of people iYho should by conditions and the result is a pleasing school now have learned many hard lessons as tone. One cannot imp Toss too clear ly-on regards both war and peace can help the inspectors, particularly-the great need for a department very materially in planning and good tone. making preparation for a better social world through our schools. "\Ve find some deficiencies in a number of schools. I find in written composition for Other hon. members have dealt with phases instance, that the teaching should aim 'more of education on which I need not touch at at excluding merely colloquial English in present. Some reference has been made by favour of literary English. I discussed this one or two of them to the necessity for with a school inspector recently, and he agreed extending project clubs, the work of which with me on that point. in our country schools, in particular, is of a very high standanl. Every encomage In a number of schools we find that in ment is given to them by the departm·enL reading lessons some teachers appear-if we The instructors-or, as I think they are are to judge them by their pupils-to have called, the project-club teachers-are doing forgotten how to attack new words by sound excellent work. These clubs, whether they ing the letters and ;or syllables separately touch on poultry, pig, calf, or any other sub in other words, using what is known in teach ject, are encouraged by the department, and ing parlance as the phonic method of reading. they fill a longfelt want in many of our Some schools have too many grades. I country schools. think that is recognised by the department Mention has been made of the closure of and by many inspectors, despite what is schools the attendance at which has, for a known departmentally as retardation and period of three months, fal;ten below the acceleration. average attendance required. This is to a Naturally, I eonfess that our schools may great extent unavoidable in view of the con not be able to find a magic formula for the ditions that are at present responsible for facing of post-war reconstruction on the a shortage of farm labour. It may happen basis of reality, but like the Church and that one or two sons, and in some instances Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1347 the father, has left the farm and has joined I hope, therefore, that as much encouragement the home or overseas fighting services. There and aid as possible will be given to those is a greater difficulty than ever in country schools that have not already had the oppor centres in finding labour for the home and tunity of installing this system of visual on the farm, and that has had an effect on education. I think the time is not far distant attendances at most country schools. If for when a fair appropriation from the depart the time being the department could see its ment will he made to help as many schools way clear to reduce the average attendance as possible to introduce this form of educa required, it might meet the situation. I do tion in addition to those they possess already. not mean to put it on a basis of an attend· I should like to congratulate the Minister auce of six or seven when the present basis and his departmental officers, especially the is nine, but the departm'cnt could take into district inspectors and teachers in country consideration the abnormal conditions under schools. The teachers of schools near the which many of our country centres are towns are close to the seat of government, labouring, and if possible keep these schools as it were, and come more in contact with the open to give the children in the locality an latest teaching devices and ideas than the opportunity of attending school. country teachers. On the whole, the country I know that the correspondence system is teachers are doing their work extremely well. very effective in many centres, but there are I meet many of them, I see many of their places in which it is not welcomed, because schools by invitation, and sometimes I address many of the parents have neither the time nor the children. I like to take an interest in the education for helping their children in any school in any part of the State where I their studies at night. happen to be, and I feel that the teachers of the department are doing an excellent job Recentlv the Director-General of Eel ucatiou and the least we can do in this Parliament referred to what he termed the Big Three in is to give them all the praise we possibly can. educational influences. The Press report reads:- Tile ATTORNEY· GENERAL (Hon. J. '' Three great influences in education 0 'Keefe, Cairns) (2.34 p.m.): My main the cinema, books, and radio-were dis reason for rising was to offer my thanks to cussed by the Director of Education the ::'.fiuister n'nd his officers for the work (Mr. L. D. Edwards) in his annual report they are doing in the interests of the educa tion of our children. I have nothing to for 1940, tabled in Parliament yesterday. complain about in my electorate. In it there "Mr. Edwards said that year by year the is now a fine high school and technical State school library plan had been developed college, a beautiful building, the surroundings until it was hoped that every State primary and facilities of which are all that could be school would be included and between them desired. be using 80,000 books from the beginning I am also pleased to know that the old tech of 1942. For centuries books ha'cl been the nical college and high school has been trans very thread of civilisation.'' formed into an intermediate school, thus meet I heartily agree with the Director-General's ing another of the essential needs of the desire to extend the system of libraries. He district. went on to say- It is extraordinary that Cairns has turned '' Teachers in more than 200 schools out the greatest number of pupils to obtain availed themselves of the help offered by the scholarships of any school in the State, but, special programme of school broadcasts, since 1930, we ha've not been able to create a while 130 schools in the la'st two years had senior class. This is not through any fault of installed equipment for screening films and the department or the teaching service, but is now drew regularly from the departmental because we have had principals at the college collection of more than 300 subjects. who were capable of instructing the children to such a degree that as soon as they passed "Probably the most powerful of these their junior examination they were absorbed three great influences in the developme11t in the business community, and so we have of human experience was the sound film.'' never had sufficient children to form a senior Again we agree. Quite a number of schools class. I should certainly like to see a senior have installed the film strips and are able to class formed because at present one or two give practical illustration of the geographical boys and girls every year are forced to go to features of other countries, as well as an Charters Towers or Brisbane to get a senior insight into th0 life of commercial activities education. I bring that matter before the of countries other than our own. This is a Committee just to show that as soon as a boy very valuable aiel to education. or girl passes his or her junior examination he or she is taken away from school by offers Mr. Edwards concluded by saying- of employment in business institutions in Cairns and district. '' It presented, ~r could present, something very close to reahty. By its double appeal A school was erected at Edgehill about two through the eye and the ear it could go years ago and started off with 22 pupils, but further tha'n a book or the radio for to-day 60 pupils attend that school. Whilst neither the printed description no; the I recognise that this matter does not come spoken account would impress the mind within the scope of the vote before us, I wish as much as the combination of sight and the Secretary for Public Instruction would sound.'' have a chat with the Secretary for Public 1348 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. \Vorks (laughter), with a Yiew to rectifying board; of the board of post primary the anomaly that exists at that school. It studies and examinations; and of the has only one elassroom, and it is essential, if board of adult education permit of a wide the chililren are to get proper education, that and experienced representation and will they have surroundings suitable for the pur achieve much more than the constitution pose. There is congestion in that classroom, of such bodies on a narrower and purely and it is handicapping the children. academic basis. I do not pretend to dally with the arguments of those who suggest We all realise that it is the policy of this that the main function of a university is to Government to improve education facilities produce courageous and progressive citizens from the kindergarten to the university. It who can, without fear of reprisals, publicly was interesting, no doubt, to many hon. mem criticise the Government and who assert, bers of this Chamber, when the National quite gratuitously, that the intimidation Education Co-ordination and the University of university teachers will be worse than of Queensland Acts Amendment Bill was ever. Such arguments and assertions can before the House a few weeks ago, to see the come from those only who have reason to galleries crowded with University students fear that we have had enough patience with and others from colleges throughout the State. criticisms and who fear that discipline Some of the newspapers made a great mouth may be necessary when they disregard the ful of this Bill without. I believe, interesting tenets of tried and accepted principles of themselves in it. I cannot believe that any liberty und culture. editor of a newspaper would offer the criticism leYelleil at it had he a copy of the Bill before ''For some years past grave dissatisfac him or knew anything about its contents. On tion has been expressed by us and by others Monday evening last I had the pleasure of with the number of university scholarships attending the speech night at Nudgee College. awarded to successful candidates in the senior examination. The splendid system Some reference has already been made to of secondary education has been for years the vie>vs of the principal of '1\udgee College, truncated by this obvious anomaly. It is the Reverend Brother 0. P. Tierney, on the reassuring, howeYer, to see in the Act that Bill to which I refer, a part of which was the number of such scholarships will he not published in the Press. This is an extract less than 20 and it is most satisfying to from his report- have the Premier's assurance, given in his '' Recently a new Bill, known as the speech on thf' second reading of the Act, National Education Co-ordination and the that, at the fiJ"st available opportunity, this University of Queensland Acts Amendment number will be increased. Bill has been introduced to Parliament. "It is, also, heartening and pleasing to ''It is surprising how little general notice that the Act provides for the estab interest and worth-while discussion this Bill lishment of national university colleges has evoked from responsible bodies or from outside the area of the city of Brisbane. those who should be particularly interested Such colleges shall be incorporated as part in the matter. of and shall function as part of the University of Queensland. ''While there is much in the new Act that is already contained in the University of ''Another matter of general interest is Queensland Act of 1909 and the University the establishment of a board of adult of Queensland Act Amendment Act of education for the promotion and extension Hl22, there are some features which are ne>Y throughout Quee-nsland of s11itable and and of decided interest. practicable forms of adult education, and generally for the dissemination of know ''I fear that a false impression has been ledge throughout the State by tutorial created by criticism of some of the clauses classes, correspondence classes, extension of the Act, and by a strange silence on the classes, study-circles, home-reading circles, part of these same critics of many of the 'listening-in' groups, vacation classes, and other and more important clauses. to organise, supervise, and generally direct ''I can see nothing in the Act to suggest all forms of activity for adult education. that the present Government is not acting Such provision for educational development in the highest and best interests of the as the new Education Act envisages is a community. The already prolific and, I source of very laudable gratification to may say, extraordinary achievements of the us all. Quecnslm;td Government in matters educa "Viewing then the present action of the tional give us no conceTn as to the motives Government in the light of past meritorious which have inspired the present new Educa achievement and successful endeavour to tion Act. Rather do we feel, from a close widen and increase the prestige of our and detailed study of the Bill itself, that Queensland University, we consider that the the Government is but showing further Government deserves the wholehearted sup practical interest in the advancement of port and appreciation of each and every educational opportunity and in the careful member of the community who is truly and co-ordination of every phase of education sincerely interested in the progress and and that such interest is worthy of our development of education and learning.'' continued admiration and congratulation. That is an extract from the report of the ''The constitution of the senate of the pTincipal of a very high college, perhaps I University; of tl1e academic standing can say one of the most successful colleges GOmmittee; of the University scholarship in our State. Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1349 We had criticism for political purposes from ''Cameron: 'Yes, ma'am, when he is not people who do not or did not want to under at the University of Aberdeen.' stand the proposed system. I agree that our '' Simon: 'My stars, does he go there, university system is perhaps as reasonable and too~' as good as any other in Australia, but I believe some anomalies exist in it on which I, '' Cameron: 'He does so. We share a as a parent of one of the undergraduates, very small room between us.' should express my opinion on the floor of this ' 'Simon: 'Father and son. Is he going Committee. It may count for nothing, but into the ministry alsoF it may do good. '' Cameron: ' Such is not his purpose. I do not believe that the same discipline When he has taken his degree he will return exists at our University in Brisbane as at and be a crofter again.' either our State or denomination! schools. It "Simon: 'In that case I don't see what has been stated-I heard it from one member he is getting out of it.' of the senate a few years ago-that a number of medical students had missed out in their '' Cameron: 'He is getting the grandest second-year examinations. I was given to thing in the world out of it; he is getting understand that was because the undergradu an education.' ates did not attend lectures. What I desire ' 'Simon 's viewpoint of education is to draw attention to is that no report is similar to that of the average Australian. submitted by the University to the parent on Cameron, on the other hand, is thinking the behaviour of undergraduates attending along the lines of an ancient cultural tradi the medical course. Such a parent should be tion. Nor would the University of Aber informed if his or her son or daughter miss deen be covered with amazement at the certain lectures during the year. That is sight of a plain, elderly crofter studying an important anomaly that should be recti side by side with his son, inspired by fled. Although this affects all parents, it nothing more than a love of learning for particularly affects parents living in the its own sake. And, furthermore, any under country. The least that the University autho graduate sharpening his barb of wit for the rities can do is to acquaint parents in either crofter's discomforture would get a short the city or country, if their sons or daughters shrift. For 'Caledonia stern and wild' is :roam about the city streets instead of attend democratic in all her public institutions. ing lectures. The medical course means a '' Cameron the elder would return to his large expenditure by parents, irrespective of village and his farm, not too puffed up with their financial position. It is the natural his honours to take to the plough again. desire of parents to give at least one of their If he were not a better crofter for his children a better education than they have experience, he would be a better and bigger had themselves. Many of those parents only man, and life would be deeper and richer receive a fair salary. It is, therefore, the for evermore. And that, after all, is what bonnden duty of the University authorities true education is for. '' to rectify this anomaly, because if an under graduate fails in the examination in one year, Perhaps m"y few remarks were not quite he or she has to do that year again, and the relevant, but I do believe that we parents expense to the parent is repeated. That should have a report on the conduct of our expense might be obviated if some such report children during the period they are attending was made to the parent. the University. I should like to conclude by reading an Mr. lU:OORHOUSE (Windsor) (2.53 p.m.): extract from the ''Producers' Review'' of The only education I received-other than the 15th instant. It reads- the education I obtained in the university of '' The late Sir J ames Banie knew his hard knocks-was at a State school, and I countrymen through and through, and there wish to pay a compliment to the State school ·_"achers in Queensland, a body of men and was no need to draw on a fertile imagina women who are intensely interested in the tion for people or dialogue when the scene calling they follow. was Scotland. The State school syllabus is not exactly '' 'l'here is a little 'purple patch' lifted antiquated, but it is not modern enough. We from that exquisite play, 'Mary Rose,' which are moving in very fast times, and our educa might well give some hasty critics of the tional system should be in keeping with the new Education Bill introduced by the progress the world is making. We should Premier (Mr. Forgan Smith) in the Legis remember that it was the school teachers of lative Assembly something to think about. Germany who changed the whole attitude of the German people; they introduced Hitlerism '' 'Mary Rose,' a lovely young English in the short period of nve or six years. If girl, and her husband are on a visit to an such a philosophy can be inculcated by the island in the Outer Hebrides. The boatman, school teachers for destructive purposes, Cameron, piques Simon 's curiosity by carry surely our State schools can be utilised to ing a book of 'Euripides' in his pocket. teach the children the cause of wars and how Cameron is intending to enter the ministry, wars can be prevented, and how we can and is 'a boatman, ghillie, or anything you retain the :peace after we have won it~ please, to help pay my fees.' It would be a good idea if it was possible "Mary F~ose: 'Is your father a crofter for the State schools of Queensland to enter in the village~' into some sort of correspondence with the 1350 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. State schools of other eountries in the world. lUr. MOO RH OUSE: The hon. gentleman The children of to-day are the rulers of knows how many bills the gas company sends to-morrow-that is, if democracy is main out in the year. tained-and if the children of Australia could enter into correspondence with the children 'l'he Treasurer: I do not. in other countries it would be found that the Mr. MOO RH OUSE: He ought to know. problems that confront those countries are The list continues- probably the same as those that confront £ 8. d. us. By correspondence passing between the Blind for teachers' room 1 12 10 children of the various nations a better feeling Envelopes 0 17 11 would eventually be built up, and,. in all Paper 1 1 6 probability, wars could be averted. Our Framing pictures, &c. 4 15 4 children should be told about the Eureka School requisites 3 8 1 Stockade and the benefits obtained as a result Electric light 1 18 9 of that episode. This current is used to boil water in urns for 'ro-day I make a plea for free education. At present it is far from free. There is the teachers to use for making tea. a continual drain on the pockets of the parents Mr. Jesson: Do you begrudge them that to provide for their offspring all the neces cup of tea~ saries to complete their education. A basic wage earner, with at lea.st four rh_ildr~n Mr. MOORHOUSE: Not in the least, but attending school, must sacnfice somethmg m the parents should not have to pay for it. order that his children may take their places Many of the parents who make contributions with the children of richer parents. Pens, when appeals nre made to them by the school pencils, notebooks, reading books, and all committncs are not able to enjoy these things other books have to be purchased. If I remem themsel;-es. I sl1all table the list of items so ber rightly, when I attended school the blue that any hon. member iYho cares to do so reading books were used. We never had to may see what these people are called upon buy these, but I find that to-day virtually to pay. everv book used bv the child at school has I desire now to say a few words of thanks to be bought by "the parent. There is a to the school committees, those of the Windsor continual drain on the pockets of parents by area, in particular. The committee of the appeals of school committees, balls, concerts, Breakfast Creek State School is second to and tuck shops. All these methods are used none in Queensland. Neither the children nor to obtain money so that certain necessaries their parents are asked at any time to con shall be purclmsed for the school so that the tribute one penny to that school. education of the children shall be complete. Tlw Treasurer: At Breakfast Creek? I am chairman of the Windsor State School Committee, and have here a list of items of lU:r. liOORHOUSE: Yes. expenditure taken from the treasurer's report. The Treasurer: They park cars there, In three years this committee collected do they not~ £94-6 9s. ] 1 d., an average of £6 a week. At the end of that period the cash at the bank Mr MOORHOUSE: That is correct, but: was £3 lls. 9d. The expenditure includes every penny that is collected by that committee is spent on the school. items that parents certainly ought not to have paid for and which the department should I am not certain about the Kedron State have paid for. School, hut both the Wooioowin and Windsor school committees have purchased equipment Mr. Williams: Name some of them. for visual education. The department should Mr. MOORHOUSE: I will name them for have borne this expense. What right have the hon. member. They are- we to ask parents to provide the means of education when possibly this visual education £ s. d. will be discontinued, and if that is done the ·workers' compensation insur- money expended upon it will be of no benefit ance 2 9 0 to anyone~ Prudential insurance 2 5 I congratulate the Minister upon the intro B-arker's, books .. 3 16 4 duction of vocational teaching, but I say that Garden seats 2 8 0 it cannot possibly be a success when one Granite basin in lavatory 0 19 0 teacher has to control a school of 900 children. Watering the gardens, cleaning That teacher is expected to teach during the the grounds . . 5 0 0 day and to interview every child. I suggest Repairs to mower 1 1 0 that one interview is not enough for the Paper 5 0 0 purpose of ascertaining what vocation a child Brisbane Gas Company. . 0 3 6 should follow. It is not fair that this teacher should have to do ordinary work in addition What right have the parents to pay for gas to the vocational testing. If he has to do used to boil the water to make tea for the vocational work he should be freed from most teachers~ of his ordinary teaching duties. Tile Treasurer: How much? I object to the physical-training course that is being conducted at the University Mr. MOORHOUSE: 3s. 6d. to-day. I should like the Director-General of The Treasurer: For the 12 months? Education to go down and see these students, Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1351 who are teachers during the day and Univer· walk round eating their lunches from their sity students at night, undergoing a physical hands. I venture to say that nobody would training course. I am sure he 'vill agree with be able to interview the Director-General of me that we all desire our women to be some Education during his lunch hour. If he takes thing to which vYe can look up to, but I sug his full lunch hour, our teaching staff in the gest that this training is going to give them schools are entitled to have their lunch hour. thighs like centaurs. \Ve do not want our It should be possible for the head t cnc her women to look like that; we want them to look of the school to teach the playground like women. It is not fair that these students teacher's class during the 1wlf-hour or so should have to teach throughout the day and preceding the lunch-hour period, so that that go to the University at night for this teacher can have his lunch in the proper physical-training course. As their taking way. the course is going to be of some benefit to the department, at least the department We teach our children to strive for certi should free them from part of their teaching ficates; I think this is wrong. Every child duties during the day, especially during should be given a certificate, because ordin examination periods. I find that an examina arily when he goes for a job he is tion is to be held on 8, 9, 10, 11, and 13 asked if he has one. If he can produce some December in the morning, and on 9 December thing in the nature of a school-leaving certi at night as well as in the morning. ficate, the employer is usually satisfied, but, if he does not sit for the junior or the These teachers have to go back to school scholarship examination he cannot produce after sitting for the examination, teach that certificate and is ''wiped off'' when he classes again, and be ready to turn up at applies for a job. \Ye should institute a the University the following morning free system whereby each child receives a certifi from worry, which I declare impossible of cate stating certain things. I know that if a attainment. I think it should be possible Gallup poll was taken of the teachers of for these people to be given the whole of Queensland, there would be a majority in the examination period free from teaching opposition to the existing certificate system. duties. The head teacher of the Wilston State School Now that the University comes under the told me last week of a boy who sat for the examination held prior to the August holi control of the Department of Public Instruc tion, there is a matter that needs to be day, preparatory to the scholarship examina investigated. When a student sits for an tion, but failed in a certain subjeet. The examination at the University he writes his boy failed in a subject, and he asked the name on the top of his paper. Examinations head teacher if he could get permission to are supposed to be conducted fairly, but how leave school. The head teacher wanted to can they be when a person writes his name know why, and the boy replied, ''I cannot on the top of his vaper and the examiner pass that examination and I shall not get can say, ''This fellow misbehaved during a job." If the boy knew that on leaving the year; we will wipe him off! '' There is school he would be given a certificate, he a possibility of its happening. I think a would know that he would be competing for person should be given a number, and that work on an equal footing with a child who number should not be known to the examiner. had a scholarship certificate. He should get Our children in schools are given numbers a certificate of some sort. to use, but when they go to the University A Government Member: If he was entitled they have to write their names on top of to it. the examination paper. ~Ir. MOORHOUSE: He is entitled to it. Jllr. Copley: Do you not think a pro I know there is enough intelligence in the fessor would know a man's handwriting department to draft a certificate to suit the from ha Ying seen it so often~ case. The certificate could set out his lUr. ~IOORHOUSE: No, because he would character and his abilitv and that is all that be examin_ing so many papers. is usually required to 'enable him to get a position. I ''"ish to make Teference to a very dan gerous practice that exists in some of our l\Ir. Power: He could get that at any State schools, varticularly in the city schools time from the school teacher. where there are many child1·en. I refer to ~Ir. MOO RH OUSE: There is no school the practice of using the area underneath leaving certificate now. I sincerely hope that the school building for the parking of before my three-year term' in Parliament teachers' motor cars. An accident to one expires at least some of the suggestions I of these cars would mean that the school have made will be carried into effect. would be enveloped in flames, and the risk of loss of life is tremendous. I do not think The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC the department should permit motor cars to INSTRUCTION (Hon. H. A. Bruce, The be parked under school buildings. Tableland) (3.12 p.m.): For a number of I svoke to the Minister the other day years the Treasurer, the Hon. F. A. Cooper, about the lunch hours of teachers. I find was Secretary for Public Instruction. Later that they do not, as a rule, get the benefits on the Government thought that his duties of a lunch hour, because during that period would be more valuable to the Government teachers are often called upon to do play· if he was appointed Treasurer, and, fortun ground duty or m·end books. When they ately for me, I became the Secretary for have to do playground duty they usually Public Instruction. I want to say frankly 1352 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply that since I have been in charge of the off, but I have been Secretary for Public depm-tment my contact with the teachers and Works for 10 years and during the whole the children has been a great benefit to me of that time there has been a continual personally, because a person is very fortunate demand for more schools and larger and to have the responsibility of helping to care bigger buildings, and I have always had for the welfare of the children of the State mental reservations about the enrolment as I have done. figures. What is actually happening is that we are supplying better accommodation to To-day education in Queensland is of a the children than in the past, and the enrol very high standard. C~1ildren arc not treated ments have dropped to a small extent only. as they were in years gone by. The depart There is one enrolment that I am pleased to ment has allowed the teachers to use their note has shown a reduction, and credit for own initiative, and thus they have intro that must be given to the activities of the ducefl things apart from the ordinary school Secretary for Health and Home Affairs. We subjects that are of interest to the children. have a blind school, and the enrolment there Indeed, I go so far as to say that this hns dropped by 50 per cent. That is due manner of teaching is so successful that the largely to the establishment of the Wilson children are really taking education into the Ophthalmic Hostel. That is one fact that homes of the people. Not only are the chil inf1icatcs that while we are pleased to teach dren being taught academic subjects such as the ehildren >Ye do not neglect them in other arithmetic, I~nglish, and so forth, but they rcspeets, but like to sPe them attending school are also taught acts of comtesy, little things without snffering from any disability. in thenl'selves, perhaps, but of great import ance in a we!l-ordered community. In this ~Iention has been made of the appointment way their characters are developed, so that in ps~-r''ology \Yhich is the first step in the nowadays their good manners are remarkef1 dircetion of n vocational guidanee bureau. upon on all sides. There is something in psyehologr, but as >Yith many matters suggested to the dcpartnwnt While I am on this subject, I feel that I people >Yho take up particular sulJjccts would must express my appreciation of the excel ha.-e us lwliew thnt was the only subject lent >Vork of the parents in sending their >ve should deal with. \Ve should, !Jo>YeYer, c-hildren to school neatly clad. (Hear, hear!) estnblish n bodv to decide in which direction I am sure that in many families with a large a child shoulr1 ·he e(1neated. This is not an 1mmbcr of children it must be a great entire solution to th0 question, hut it is struggle indeed for the mother to see that desirable thnt. in order to get the hest results all the children are tidily and cleanly attainable, we should know whnt cn!ling a (hcssed for school. I take this opportunity ehild desires to follo>Y. Once that lmmvledge of extending my congratulations to them and is obtained half the battle of education is my deep sense of appreciation of what they over. If a child discloses a bent for a pnrti ha.-e done. eular course of study, >Ye should see to it thnt he or she becomes skilful in it. The There is a tendencv to-day for the children appointment of a teacher in psychology is to be taken from their mothers and sent to therefore n step in the right dirc>ction. school at too early an age. -They arc cxjlected to attend the State schools not later Voca tionnl training is of the utmost than six yerns of age, but most of them importance. During the period of unemploy begin between the ages of five and six. In ment one 0f our main difficulties was what my opinion, the early training of a child to do with the unskilled labourer. We found should come from a mother-that is the that >Yhile we coulfl put skilled men at work natural law-and it is a mistake to take the we could not always absorb unskilled child away from the mother at too early an labourers, whose numbers were out of propor age. Some people are inclined to agree that tion to the skilled class. Vocational train it should be done, but it is the opinion of ing >Yill be of value in solving that problem. the people of the British nation-no doubt, Vocational training has been overlooked for it is a factor with other nations, too-that some years, becausA our children have for the basis of society is the family life. the most part been diverted to white-collar jobs. Our history discloses that >Yhile there Mr. Luckins: The family is the very was plenty of room in the past for >vhite foundation of society. collar jobs we have now roached saturation The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC point, nnd it is this fact that has disclosed I:VSTRUCTION: If we take the children the neglect of our vocational training. away from the mother at too early an age, Vocational training, of course, means train family life is gradually dissipated. Between ing a youngster in the direction that is parti the ages of five and six years is quite early cularly important to himself and the State in enough for a child to start school. It must particular. It will help in the development be remembered that once they start school of the State. It will also help to solve the that there is no "let up" for them until problems that will confront us at the end they finish their educational course. They of the war. have really started work, but they are not aware of the fact until a few years after they The department has been notable for the start school. number of enlistments of its officers. It has done a great deal in educating young men The Leader of the Opposition dwelt on the in order to fit them for various war activities. falling off in enrolments at primary schools. All this work has been done on a voluntary According to statistics there has been a falling basis by a number of our teachers. Supply. [19 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1353 The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Minister agricultural activity common in the district will not be in order in discussing the Army in which they live. Training Fund or Youth Employment Fund, The hon. member for Hamilton said some which comes under Trust and Special Funds. thing about the practical side of education. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC He is quite right. Children attend primary INSTRUCTION: Large sums have been schools and if successful they proceed to a raised by the children of the State schools secondary school, there passing the junior for patriotic funds, the total amount distri university examination, and eventually enter buted as a result of patriotic concerts being the University, where they qualify to take up positions, but they have never seen the £6,372, and, in addition, clothing to the value practical side of life. It '\ ould be an excellent of £570 has been forwarded to bomb victims thing if in every form of education students overseas. could be giyen a year or two of instruction A couple of weeks ago I handed over £2,500 on the practical side of life. Boys and girls, which was raised entirely by concerts given having passed through school, usually find that by school children to the various patriotic their education is completed only after they funds. Yarious organisations approached us leave school when they come in contact with after the outbreak of war and asked permis people and haYe to face the problems of life. sion to collect funds in the State schools, but :E'or instance, it is frequently found that it we absolutely refused to allow them to do so. is yery difficult fDT certain men in certain We issued envelopes to the children so that positions to come to a decision, beca'nse they one child would not know what the other as ha•-e not a knowledge of the practical siue of giving-whether one gave ld. and another the industry or profession. We find that gave 10s. the amounts went into an envelope, manv >Yho are brilliant in school are handi· which was then sealed and handed to the capped in after life, because of their lack of school teacher. The children throughout the the pmctical education. My earlier education State have contributed to these patriotic was acquired under a system that was funds, and I say for them-I do not say it allegedly perfect-certainly the conditions for myself-that although recently I hm{ded were very pleasant indeed-but it was com over £2,500 on their behalf to patriotic funds pleted only when in the Cloncurry district I the fact was practically ignored by the Press had to mix with 6,000 men of all classes and of Queensland. I have never worried about kinds who had come from all parts of the the Press in the past-I am not personally world, men who told one where to ''get off'' concerned-but these children probably think and where to ''get on.'' I agree with the that a small amount of notice \YaS given to hon. member that our children should have their effort, whereas if some society lady practical education of some kind. held a bridge party and collected £3 ios. she Prior to the war we had contemplateu would get about a quarter of a column. The extending the school-leaving age to 15 years, school chil.dren 's contribution of £2,500 was but when the war broke out, we detided it almost entirely overlooked. I think that is a would not be wise to extend the term bv an very unjust thing to the school children. additional year, because, as has been stated The Leader of the Opposition mentioned by one or two hon. members, to-uay boys are the que~tio.n of area schools.· '\Vhen visiting helping parents when a father or brothers Tasmama m connection with technical train have joined the fighting forces. ing I was fortunate in having an oppor The hon. member for Hamilton mentione Any child who has a liking for music is The Attorney-General mentioned an exten taught with a view to developing that talent. sion of the Edgehill State School. That Every school has its choir, as was demon matter comes within the vote for the Depart strated last year by the four concerts that ment of Public Works, which has already been were given in the Brisbane City Hall, when dealt with. He also mentioned the lack of the stage was crowded with children from discipline at University lectures, but I think the north side in one concert and from the that the new Act will enable the department south side in another, and on every occasion to correct things that are not as they should the hall was filled to capacity. This year 600 be. A note will be taken of the complaint. children from the north side and 600 from The hon. member for ·windsor raised the south side gave concerts in the Brisbane City Hall that were equally successful. I can question of a candidate's name being placed assure the hon. member that music does at the top of his examination paper, bnt I receive fair and reasonable consideration. personally do not think his remarks carry ;>.fany of the children gave solo items at those very much weight. The same hon. member mentioned the parking of motor cars under concerts, and showed great talent. the school buildings, but all I can say is 1\fr. Dart: Are they taught dancing? that the insurance companies are satisfied that there is no additional risk and have not asked The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC for any extra premium when cars are parked INSTRUCTION: The general outlook of there. the child is well looked after. The children are taught folk dances and other forms of 'l'he hon. member for ·windsor suggested dancing in order to give them as full an that we should teach children thr causes of education as possible. war, how war could be prevented, and how to win peace. I do not think it necessary Reference has been made to the examination to teach children anything about war, but by system. 11any men have gone into this ques our general education we should let them tion and many alternative systems have been lmow that true democracy would prevent war proposed, but I have not yet seen any con as far as it is possible to do so. I am sure crete proposal that would be superior to our in the whole of the State or elsewhere I present system. Whilst I admit that it is cculrl not find a teacher, clever as they are, by no means perfect, it must be remembered who would be capable of explaining to that after all a child has to show some children the causes of war. Opinions differ ability, and the only means by which its ability so much on the question, and np to date can be ascertained is the examination. The nobody has found a solution to the question hon. member for Windsor suggested that if how to prevent war. The winning of the peace a poll was taken many teachers would favour is a problem to be faced at a later date. Correspondence between ·children in different issuing certificates to the children. I suggest parts of the world is undertaken to-day. The that consciously, or unconsciously, each teacher history of the Eureka Stockade is a very short is prejudiced in favour of his or her own episode, and children could study it without cbildren, and in an accrediting system very much difficulty. high marks, indeed, might be given. My view is that the present system at least gives The hon. member also contended that educa m· some idea of the attention paid by the tion was not free, citing the activities of the children to their lessons. The hon. member Wimlsor State School Committee. I want to for Hamilton said that he did not pay a great say that that committee is doing wonderful deal of attention to his lessons, and that the work, as many other school committees are granting of certificates would have suited him. doing throughout Queensland. Citizen com Like him, I prefened sport of various kinds, mittees and school committees have done and the issue of certificates on leaving school remarkable work throughout the State, and I would have suited me admirably. cannot understand how any hon. member of this Committee can say from the floor of the The hon. member for Baroona has mentioned Chamber that we should take over the work tE·chnical training. That work has advanced of these committees. Why, they take pride considerably. We have 250 men trained at in their work, and are happy in helping the our Technical College ready and waiting to children, and their voluntary effort should take up any war work that may be available. not be discouraged. The very essence of The Attorney-General has stated that boys democracy is that one person should help receive employment in the various activities another, and that we should help those unable of the State when they pass their junior to help themselves. It is the essence of examination, but I can assure the Committee dPmocracy also to help others to earn their that for a number of years boys have been living. I say to the people of Windsor, as getting employment in this State immediately I say to people composing other committres, upon passing their scholarship examination. ''I thank you very much on behalf of the My department has been responsible, through department; we appreciate your work and its teachers, for getting employment for a are not going to interfere with it.'' very large number of boys and girls who have On the subject of physical training the been edncatPd at State schools. Teachers act, hon. member for Windsor said that the lady to a large extent, in the capacity of father instructors looked like centaurs, wherPas he or mother in getting jobs for youngsters who preferred that they should look like women. have left school, and I do not think we can Different people have different ideas about express too much appreciation of the work women. Some like the natty little blond, dcne by teachers in this direction. others prefer the big-chested, buxom type. Supply. [19 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1355 1 can confidently say that physical train head master for punishment it was a'dminis ing is making a marked improvement in the tered in a humane manner. physical fitness oi the children. (Hear, hear!) That is noticeable in every way. It is very We haw a very excellent department in noticeable with cbildren in the dancing our Department of Public Instruction. The classes that are f01·med at most of Minister is very lucky indeed to hold his the schools. These youngsters are perfect present office, as it is more or less a non specimens of young boys and girls, and the party one, and when he visits an electorate work has been developed by the department. he definitely adopts a non-party attitude. I The ladies who undertake the training are also say to the Minister's credit that he perfect specimens of physical culturists and preaches the same doctrine in our schools they are a decided improvement on the old as regards physical fitness as he has done in type. I stand 100 per cent. for the physical this Committee. I am with him 100 per cent. training of both boys and girls, so long as I agree with him that a child can be given they have no deep-seated physical ailment that all the education he can absorb, but unless will be adversely affected by physical training. his physical condition also has received atten The best education in the world is worth tion his education has been practically nothing without good health. Some people wasted. A man or woman must be physically have the idea that the first duty is to give a fit in order to use his or her education to the child a good education, but in the process they best advantage. may destroy the body by imposing too great a The report of the Director-General of mental strain upon it. The basic principle Education is an ndmirable one. I was pleased of life is good health first and education to note in it that a psychologist is to be afterwards. appointed in order to help parents to deter I want to congratulate the officers of the mine what bent a rhild has. Such an appoint department and especially the teaching staff ment should have been made many years ago. on their splendid services on behalf of the It is a very wise one. Two or three years State. The department has been particularly ago I visited New South Wales, by invitation, fortunate in having a wide choice from various to see children being put through the voca types of people for its teaching service, and tional test, and I was very much impressed with very few exceptions they are doing a with the work accomplished. If the test first-class job. disclosed that the pupil was mechanically minded he was trained in that direction. The The subject of corporal punishment is test was a simple but interesting one. Each mentioned by outside bodies from time to pupil was given a box with six sections. In time. Some teachers can conduct their classes one was an ordinary cupboard catch, separated without the need for corporal punishment, and into its parts, and the pupil had to I believe that by a correct understanding of put it together. Another section contained the children we should be able to do away an ordinary butt hinge with the pin taken with it altogether. The use of force, even in out and the pupil had to put it in correctly. the form of a cane at school, is one of the The other sections contained tests of a fundamental causes of conflict between people. similar nature. At the conclusion of the test That lack of understanding of children brings certificates were issued to the effect that this about a lack of understanding in after life, pupil would make a first·class insurance agent, and hence it is one of the causes of war. that a first-class mechanic, or the other was If force has to be used, sooner or later it adapted for some other calling. The develops into a cause of war. As far as authorities informed me that the test was possiblP. I deprecate the use of the cane in accurate in 90 per cent. of the cases. These schools because I feel that a few teachers vocational tests must have a beneficial who have to administer punishment entirely influence on the future of our young people. lose control of themselves and administer There is no doubt that if we can get the boy punishment out of all proportion to what the doing the work he loves the days will be too child should receive. Usually the person short for him. It is of the greatest importance administering the punishment is upset or in to get people employed at work they love. The a temper, and, consequently, he administers trouble is that very many people hate the greater punishment than the offence warrants. sight of the jobs they are doing, to use a I should like to emphasise that it is only in colloquialism. Anything the department can very few cases it occurs in the department. do to remedy that position will be worth while. Mr. NDHIO (Oxley) (3.45 p.m.): I I wish to pay a tribute to the department want to say how much I appreciate the many for its work in training men at the Central courtesies that have been extended to me Technical College for munition manufacture by the department during my term as member in this State. As a result numbers of men of Parliament. have learned much that will be very useful to them for the rest of their lives. The Secretary for Public Lands: That i~ something new, for you get the cane some The Secretary for Public Lands: We times. had to battle very hard with the Federal M.r. Nnnro: I thought by the way the people to get that, too. Minister spoke that he had been caned occa M.r. NlltiM.O: Perhaps the Government sionally. I admit that I was, but I must did. I would extend these activities 50 per admit, too, that I think it corrected some cent. I think this training should be carried of my faults. If a pupil was sent to the out on a larger scale. I am sure the results 1356 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. alTeady achieved prove that the work has lUr. NilUMO: Yes. been well worth while. Mr. Power: You would say anything. I am pleased to know the department is introducing industrial scholarships, which I lUr. NIMJUO: There are men holding positions as head teachers of schools when think are overdue. I congratulate the other men more competent have been passed Minister and the department on this innova over. tion, which, no doubt, will do much to put boys into callings they are suited for. Ur. Power: Name where they are. In the repoTt I notice the Director-General Mr. NBilUO: I will name one at Sher of Education deals with the question of wood. We have a man up there, Mr. Wood juvenile employment. I do not think that our yard, who has been a scholarship teacher. for record in this respect is one that we can be years. He is one of the most proficient very proud of. W o may have found a certain teachers in the service, but he is not eligible number of jobs for boys and girls, but I for a head-teacher's job because he has honestly believe the methods used in finding IH",-er clone country service. those jobs have deprived other boys and girls and youths of jobs they would have got had JUr. Rim·dan: You want a man to serve that scheme not been in operation. I think a life sentence out in the country. it is more or less a duplication. Only a JUr. NHilUO: I do not, but in the certain number of jobs are available, and if interests of the parents and the pupils the the Government put a boy or a girl into a very best man should be appointed. If there job another boy or girl who is not assisted is a young man in the service-he may be by the department does not get work. That only 35 years of age-who is competent io is a matter of opinion. have a school, he should get it and the Tile CHAIRMAN: Order! It is not a pupils should be giwn a chance. matter that comes under this vote. lUr. Power: He would not know much }lr. NIJUJUO: There is one other matter about Queensland if he had been teaching in on which I wish to compliment the depart Brisbane all his life. ment-that is, the correspondence school, 3Ir. X!IIniO: We ought to do >vhat is which, I believe, is doing a greater work than in the very best interests of Queensland. the department recognises. ~Ir. Po-wer: You are throwing the usual The Secretary for Public Lands: A very bucket of mud. valuable work. lUr. NilUl110: I am not throwing any ~Ir. NilUlUO: A very valuable work is mud at all. There is a school at Cooper's done in the distant parts of the State where Plains. The old building was demolished, I have occasion to go at times. I hope that anrl a new school erected. A relieving only the best men and women will be placed teacher, namerl Morrison, was appointed to in charge of that section. There is no doubt relieve at that school. When he took over we have built up on a sound foundation, and the school the attendance was 15 or 16, but I believe if the work is carried on along the in a very short time he had the attendance lines now being followed that we shal1 achieve up to 54. He was doing wonderful work great results. there, as, in fact, the department admitted. Another matter I wish to deal with 1vhile The p0ople of the district signed a petition the Minister is here is the appointment of asking that he be left at the school, but head teachers. I think some better method because of some regulation that man could could be adopted than the one in operation. not be appointed. He is now teaching at the Burancla school. That system is wrong, Tlle Secretary for Public Lands: What and if a man makes good, and is doing goorl is the present method~ work, the parents of the children attending the school should have some say. That lUr. NIM1IO: I do not know. The teacher should have been left at Cooper's present method seems to be that a teacher Plains. has to be away out a~ Timbuctoo for a certain number of years. After a teacher has served The Secretary for Public Lands: He has in outback centres he is brought in when he the right of appeal if he is passed over. is up in years and he has not the same out look as most of the pupils, whereas we may The Secretary for lUines: He was not have an excellent teacher who, for some passed over; he wanted to get ahead of other reason-possibly because he is a great scholar teachers. ship teacher-has never gone out to the back Mr. NIMlUO: He was not passed over, country. but because of the rules of the departn!'ent he was not eligible for the job. He did lUr. Riordan: Then you would accuse great work there, and I am pointing out the departmental ofiicials of showing that service in the country and everything favouritism? else should go by the board in the interests Mr. NilUMO: Nothing of the sort. I of getting the very best head teachers. would not allow a man to be a head teacher Mr. Power: Was not that man appointed of a State school if he was not competent. a head teacher~ Mr. Power: Do you think that applies Mr. NIMMO: He may have been. I am to-clay~ merely stating those facts in passing. So Supply. [20 NOVEMBER.) Government Loan Bill. 1357 far as I am C 'The unfortun~te thing is that the effect on the school has to be taken into consideration by the other parents. I suggest that it might be possible to make the scholarship examination a little easier for country pupils. For instance, a country schoolboy who sits for the examination may obtain an excellent pass in arithmetic and good passes in geography and history, but fail by one mark to p~ss in English, and because of that failure he loses his right to a scholarship. I think that if the head master reports that the boy concerned should have a secondary education, it should be given to